# No Wiggo for TDF, WTF!



## Rooster1 (6 Jun 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/27729769

"Britain's Sir Bradley Wiggins says he will not be competing in this year's Tour de France "as things stand".

The 34-year-old four-time Olympic gold medallist won the Tour in 2012, but was absent last year as countryman and Team Sky colleague Chris Froome triumphed"

Wiggins told BBC Breakfast: "The team is focused around Chris Froome.

"I am gutted. I feel I am in the form I was two years ago. Now if I want to go to the Tour again, the reality is that I might have to go elsewhere.


-------------------------------------

He should do a Cav and Leave team Sky.


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## User169 (6 Jun 2014)

Yeah! Another Wiggo/Froome thread.


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## Rooster1 (6 Jun 2014)

OK, we can change it to a Niki Terpstra thread.


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## jowwy (6 Jun 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> Yeah! Another Wiggo/Froome thread.


no - its a no wiggo at tdf thread - he's one of the best british riders if not the best of our time. i for one is gutted he's not going to ride the TDF ever again in sky colors


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## User169 (6 Jun 2014)

jowwy said:


> no - its a no wiggo at tdf thread - he's one of the best british riders if not the best of our time. i for one is gutted he's not going to ride the TDF ever again in sky colors


 
Yebbut, there are already about 6 threads on this!


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## jowwy (6 Jun 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> Yebbut, there are already about 6 threads on this!


nope - on the first page of pro cycling there is no wiggins in tdf threads - this is the only one

there are numerous debate threads of whether he would be in the team or not and debates around team sky - but no wiggo thread 







just for clarity


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## User169 (6 Jun 2014)

I don't suppose we're going to agree on this, but I just don't get the obsession with Wiggins, seemingly to the exclusion of anything else to do with pro-racing.


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## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jun 2014)

Should we start a thread about how many threads they should have?

I wonder how to read that ''as things stand'' bit, and whether there will be a reassessment based on his Tour de Suisse performances. He does look a bit sidelined, though.


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## jarlrmai (6 Jun 2014)

Perhaps it's because he's the 1st Briton to win the greatest road race there is?


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## raleighnut (6 Jun 2014)

It will put even more pressure on Chris Froome, now if he doesn't win he will be slated by the non-cycling press/public.


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## frank9755 (6 Jun 2014)

It's a sensible call by Brailsford. Froome doesn't want him there so it will make him happier and hence more likely to preform better. The downside for Sky is that it will hit their replica jersey sales.


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## Smokin Joe (6 Jun 2014)

Rather disingenuous of Wiggins, considering Froome could have won the Vuelta in 2011 when he sacrificed his chances for his him and could also have pulled the same number on him during the Tour that Roche did on Viscentini to win the Giro in '87.


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## Crackle (6 Jun 2014)

Ok he's not at the Tdf but he is doing the Tour De Suisse, will almost certainly be riding track at the Commonwealth games, may well be at Vuelta or ToB, in the meantime the TdF is shaping up to be a cracker, Contador in the best form since he was on different steak, Valverde in his pantomine dame role, Nibali hopefully in the form that won him the Giro last year, Rodriguez possibly there to mix things up, Horner back out of his corner, Mollema, Ten Dam, Van Garderen and that's just most of the GC. Over on the sprinters side, it's going to be the best competition since last year, KIttel, Cav, Greipel, Degenkolb plus a host of others and Sagan going for the Green. It'll be great.


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## raindog (6 Jun 2014)

you forgot to mention Andy Schleck there


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## User269 (6 Jun 2014)

I'm hoping Wiggo will leave Sky before his contract expires at the end of this season, find another team, and contest the TdF. Well, a girl can dream can't she?


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## Crackle (6 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> you forgot to mention Andy Schleck there


Heh. Did you see that interview where he said it was right he wasn't mentioned amongst the contenders anymore. It's like his head is two years behind everyone else. It surprises me he's still in contract.


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## smutchin (6 Jun 2014)

I've long tried to cling to the belief that Wiggo and Froome are professionals who can put personal differences aside for the good of the team. Guess this proves me wrong once and for all.

The fact that Wiggo wasn't picked for the Dauphiné was a massive hint (presumably that's the team that will start the TdF), but I kind of hoped his omission was a more strategic decision. Shame. The choice of team leader for the TdF is a no-brainer but Wiggo in current form would have been a very useful domestique for Froome.

This story is non-news but at least it clears up any lingering doubts.


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## the_mikey (6 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> you forgot to mention Andy Schleck there


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## oldroadman (6 Jun 2014)

User269 said:


> I'm hoping Wiggo will leave Sky before his contract expires at the end of this season, find another team, and contest the TdF. Well, a girl can dream can't she?


Then you wake up to the real world....


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## Hont (6 Jun 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I wonder how to read that ''as things stand'' bit,


Wiggins seems to clarify that further down the article. He means if Froome is fit and healthy to ride the tour and doesn't fall off between now and then.


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## BrumJim (6 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Wiggins seems to clarify that further down the article. He means if Froome is fit and healthy to ride the tour and doesn't "fall off" between now and then.


FTFY


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## Georgem123 (6 Jun 2014)

to be fair, froome is the better rider,, froome could have won in .2012 but was called back on numerous occasions to help Bradley
also the 2012 course was quite time trial heavy which played into wiggos hands


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## tug benson (6 Jun 2014)

raleighnut said:


> It will put even more pressure on Chris Froome, now if he doesn't win he will be slated by the non-cycling press/public.


 he's done fine without Wiggins so far


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## Hont (6 Jun 2014)

raleighnut said:


> ...Chris Froome, now if he doesn't win...


Oh god. Can you imagine the endless "Would Wiggins have Won" hypotheses if Froome doesn't.


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## raleighnut (6 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Oh god. Can you imagine the endless "Would Wiggins have Won" hypotheses if Froome doesn't.


Quite. doesn't bear thinking about does it! BTW good luck Chris


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## Rob3rt (6 Jun 2014)

Georgem123 said:


> to be fair, froome is the better rider,, froome could have won in .2012 but was called back on numerous occasions to help Bradley
> also the 2012 course was quite time trial heavy which played into wiggos hands



Could have, should have, would have... but didn't....


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## Georgem123 (6 Jun 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Could have, should have, would have... but didn't....


well,, he couldnt , because team sky told him not to


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## Spoked Wheels (6 Jun 2014)

Georgem123 said:


> to be fair, froome is the better rider,, froome could have won in .2012 but was called back on numerous occasions to help Bradley
> also the 2012 course was quite time trial heavy which played into wiggos hands



Exactly. I felt, watching Wiggo's interview just a few weeks ago that he was ready to play the supporting role this time just as Froome did 2 years ago. Something must have happened since that interview, maybe Froome's book, who knows?

I don't know much about pro cycling but I feel that Froome is the more complete rider of the two and Wiggo couldn't have won the TDF without Froome. Wiggo has certainly gone down in my estimation with his attitude, he owes Froome a favour.

EDIT:
I've just watched the interview on BBC and it seems this is Sky call rather that Wiggo's in which case it would be wrong of me to say that Wiggo has gone down in my estimation.


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## Dogtrousers (6 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Oh god. Can you imagine the endless "Would Wiggins have Won" hypotheses if Froome doesn't.


 
Well, he wouldn't. Cos there aren't enough TTs. BUT ... the "would Froome have won with Wiggins in the team" hypotheses could be more heated.

Could be interesting. Probably won't happen, but I rather hope it does.


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## Spoked Wheels (6 Jun 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Could have, should have, would have... but didn't....



I think you know that is not so simple. There were teams orders. I still remember when Froome was called back and stay with Wiggo when Froome could obviously go faster than Wiggo. it was later explained that the strategy was for Wiggo to win the tour, nothing else was important. Cav left Sky because of that, with Sky, the emphasis was to win tours not so much individual races.


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## ayceejay (6 Jun 2014)

I think this is all a set up. Wiggins contract with Sky expires this year, he goes to another team and next year we have a hyped 'duel' Wiggins vs Froome screed coming from the press who have no idea who any of the other worthy contenders are. If that race doesn't end the BS I suggest handbags at dawn.


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## DannyCFC (6 Jun 2014)

Not a massive surprise but I bet there are a few burger vans in Yorkshire wondering what'll replace the Wiggo Wi' Onions now.


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## Beebo (6 Jun 2014)

DannyCFC said:


> Not a massive surprise but I bet there are a few burger vans in Yorkshire wondering what'll replace the Wiggo Wi' Onions now.


That's easy, it's a Froome Dog.


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## TissoT (6 Jun 2014)

Wiggins was at the velo today whilst I was riding a SQT ... he was in the sky HQ wonder what was going on there !


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## PaulB (7 Jun 2014)

Living close to the route on day one and two, I've been reading some local on-line stuff suggesting Froome's appearance will not be met with universal happiness. There are people claiming Froome will be Joe Bugner to Wiggins' Henry Cooper and he'll be barracked unmercifully and not welcomed round here.


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## Smokin Joe (7 Jun 2014)

PaulB said:


> Living close to the route on day one and two, I've been reading some local on-line stuff suggesting Froome's appearance will not be met with universal happiness. There are people claiming Froome will be Joe Bugner to Wiggins' Henry Cooper and he'll be barracked unmercifully and not welcomed round here.


Jesus H Whatsit, we wait over 100 years for a Tour de France winner and now people want to have a go at one of the guys who did it. 

And I always preferred Bugner to Cooper anyway.


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## roadrash (7 Jun 2014)

when wiggo won the T de F, froome was there to do a job , just like everyone else on the team , if wiggins did ride this year ,he too would be there with a specific job.
simple really......if you dont like the terms ......dont take the job


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## Smokin Joe (7 Jun 2014)

Two potential winners in the same team is never a good idea anyway. There is always the possibility of treachery when the designated number two decides he can win himself so why play second fiddle and let the other guy take the spoils. Lemond / Hainault and Roche / Visentini show what can happen there.


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## Joshua Plumtree (7 Jun 2014)

Wasn't the strategy in 2012 to treat the harder mountain climbs as akin to time trials allowing Wiggins to gradually reel in the more explosives climbers. By disappearing into the distance, Froome was threatening to tear that strategy to shreds, or am I missing something!


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## Andrew_Culture (7 Jun 2014)

I'm looking forward to seeing Wiggins and Froome on different teams thrashing the entire field for supremecy next year on Le Tour. 

Popcorn indeed. By which I mean beer.


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## Chris Norton (7 Jun 2014)

For someone that made a lot of noise about never wanting to ride a GT again, it's all a bit of a non story. The year wiggo won the tour the route was made for him. He would never have won it last year even if he was in the form of his life. I do reckon if his form is as good as he reckons, then the Vuelta is coming up and god knows it would be nice to have a brit tackle that baby properly.


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## Chris Norton (7 Jun 2014)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing Wiggins and Froome on different teams thrashing the entire field for supremecy next year on Le Tour.
> 
> Popcorn indeed. By which I mean beer.



I'd take July off.......


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## NorvernRob (7 Jun 2014)

Chris Norton said:


> For someone that made a lot of noise about never wanting to ride a GT again, it's all a bit of a non story. The year wiggo won the tour the route was made for him. He would never have won it last year even if he was in the form of his life. I do reckon if his form is as good as he reckons, then the Vuelta is coming up and god knows it would be nice to have a brit tackle that baby properly.



Exactly, I don't get all this rubbish about two leaders because Wiggins doesn't have a chance of winning the tour this year even if Froome was out. He looked good in California but won it purely because of the TT. He lost time on the mountain stage, he can churn out an even power for a long time but has no explosiveness and Contador, Froome, Quintana etc would just ride away from him in the high mountains.

High mountains + 1 ITT near the end of the race = no chance for Wiggins this year. Unfortunately a lot of casual 'fans' will have no idea, to them Wiggins is a god and I hope nobody reacts in a negative way towards Froome on the first couple of stages of the depart.


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## montage (7 Jun 2014)

Bloody hell how many grand tours does Wiggo need to win to be considered a contender in the eyes of you lot?! Have we not been here before in 2009, 2010?

To say a man who has been a world class track champion, a world class time triallist, a world class climber and now arguably. World class classics rider has no chance, you must be off your rocker!

Wiggins will be a seriously problem for Froome in 2015 if he can hit similar form


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## NorvernRob (7 Jun 2014)

montage said:


> Bloody hell how many grand tours does Wiggo need to win to be considered a contender in the eyes of you lot?! Have we not been here before in 2009, 2010?
> 
> To say a man who has been a world class track champion, a world class time triallist, a world class climber and now arguably. World class classics rider has no chance, you must be off your rocker!
> 
> Wiggins will be a seriously problem for Froome in 2015 if he can hit similar form



He'd only be a problem in a TT heavy tour, on a mountainous route Froome would destroy him. He would have done so in 2012, 2013 and would again this year. 

He isn't a world class climber, he's a powerful climber for sure but is one paced and cannot contain explosive attacks.


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## andrew_s (8 Jun 2014)

NorvernRob said:


> He isn't a world class climber, he's a powerful climber for sure but is one paced and cannot contain explosive attacks.


It's not exciting TV, but the quickest way from the bottom of a mountain to the top is at a steady threshold pace. If you attack explosively,either you'll pay for it later or you've been taking it easy beforehand.
In 2012, there were no attacks because the opposition knew an attack would put them in the red and they would lose out.


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## NorvernRob (8 Jun 2014)

andrew_s said:


> It's not exciting TV, but the quickest way from the bottom of a mountain to the top is at a steady threshold pace. If you attack explosively,either you'll pay for it later or you've been taking it easy beforehand.
> In 2012, there were no attacks because the opposition knew an attack would put them in the red and they would lose out.



In 2012 there was no Froome or Contador to attack him though. That kind of threshold ride from Wiggins would hold off a lot of attacks certainly, but not from those two on top form, nor from Quintana and possibly a few others.

Fwiw I thought Wiggins ride up the mountain in California was brilliant TV, his cadence in that lower gear was so good but even then he lost 20+ seconds at the end of the stage.


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## yello (8 Jun 2014)

I'm inclined to agree with Robert Millar.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-blog-man-down

But what has respect to do with winning these days?

Did Wiggins shoot himself in the foot with his wavering (I will/I won't ride another GT)? Is Froome calling team decisions? Are Sky 'all-in' for Plan A? Who knows? It all makes for theatre and conjecture.

But I have real sympathies for Wiggins. I've warmed to him, he's human.


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## raleighnut (8 Jun 2014)

Good article, maybe the publicity is what SKY are after.
Another thing being Brad could possibly win but Chris does have the chance to be the first Brit to retain the title.


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## robertob (8 Jun 2014)

The truth is probably somewhere in he middle in his case. If Wiggins would have been called up for Sky's Tour squad, it would have been only for a supporting role. That's what Wiggins also acknowledged for quite a while. There is no question, that if Wiggins and Froome would get on well, that Wiggins would be in the team. There is no rational reason why you would leave a former Tour winner, who showed good form this season, at home. He would be a fantastic addition to any squad in the Tour, even more so as a first call domestique. But there are other things that play into it here. Froome and Wiggins in one team is potentially a deadly combination - that's what Sky is thinking at least - it could put Froome's title defense in danger, as any distractions can be difficult to deal with during a three weeks tour where intensity an pressure are on. I believe Wiggins when he said he would be ready to work for Froome during the Tour. But Sky doesn't believe so, or at least they believe with these two in the team, an escalation isn't far away. So that's why they leave Wiggins out of the squad. There is no margin for error in the Tour. Froome needs to be fully concentrated on the task ahead. Instead with Wiggins, there would be always questions from the media over the relationship of these two, how much Wiggins helped or not helped etc. which would lead to distraction. I understand Sky's decision from that point of view. They have a clear goal, and a clear number one to achieve this goal. They try to avoid any possible issue that could distract from achieving this goal. It's tough on Wiggins, who would be part of any other Tour squad. If he can win the Tour again isn't the question then. But that he would at least be able to challenge for a good GC position, that is ensured.


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## Crackle (8 Jun 2014)

NorvernRob said:


> In 2012 there was no Froome or Contador to attack him though. That kind of threshold ride from Wiggins would hold off a lot of attacks certainly, but not from those two on top form, nor from Quintana and possibly a few others.
> 
> Fwiw I thought Wiggins ride up the mountain in California was brilliant TV, his cadence in that lower gear was so good but even then he lost 20+ seconds at the end of the stage.


You're forgetting his 2nd hill stage in California, where he jumped on Yate's wheel and put in another 10seconds or so on 2nd place, you're forgetting Nibali was riding in the 2012 tour, you're forgetting he was 4th in 2009, with no team riding tempo for him, you're forgetting they got the gearing wrong at the Vuelta which enabled a drugged up Cobo to get away, in fact you're forgetting a lot of things, not that I don't entirely disagree with you but Wiggo is a serious GC contender in any race he's in form for.


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## roadrash (8 Jun 2014)

I really dont understand where all this bradley bashing comes from, as far as i can see froome was in the wrong in 2012 when he was called back and claimed the radio wasnt working, whether he felt he was the stronger rider is of no consequence, he was there, and being paid, to do a job, pure and simple, i have many times worked with people i dont particularly like, but the job still gets done,
That aside, froome is a bloody good rider in form and so is wiggins , i think he will be missed.


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## bicycling_nurse (8 Jun 2014)

http://road.cc/content/news/120753-...oome-doesnt-pick-sky-tour-de-france-team-i-do


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## NorvernRob (8 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> You're forgetting his 2nd hill stage in California, where he jumped on Yate's wheel and put in another 10seconds or so on 2nd place, you're forgetting Nibali was riding in the 2012 tour, you're forgetting he was 4th in 2009, with no team riding tempo for him, you're forgetting they got the gearing wrong at the Vuelta which enabled a drugged up Cobo to get away, in fact you're forgetting a lot of things, not that I don't entirely disagree with you but Wiggo is a serious GC contender in any race he's in form for.



I like Wiggins, and in his current form he should certainly be in the tour squad. I'm just questioning the people who think he should be team leader in front of Froome (tbh I'm sick of reading posts on Team Sky's FB page from people saying that).

He says he'd go and ride for Froome, in that case he should go but I don't think he could win GC against an in form Contador and some of the other climbers in a tour with only one TT. 

Ps: I remember Nibali cracking in 2012 and Froome urging Wiggins on at that point, in fact I remember shouting at the TV!


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## oldroadman (8 Jun 2014)

tissot said:


> Wiggins was at the velo today whilst I was riding a SQT ... he was in the sky HQ wonder what was going on there !


I think you will find that's GBCT HQ, not Team Sky, which is an entirely separate and independent business. maybe he was discussing how to convert back to a team pursuiter for 2016, after all, no-one has a guaranteed place.


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## oldroadman (8 Jun 2014)

PaulB said:


> Living close to the route on day one and two, I've been reading some local on-line stuff suggesting Froome's appearance will not be met with universal happiness. There are people claiming Froome will be Joe Bugner to Wiggins' Henry Cooper and *he'll be barracked unmercifully* and not welcomed round here.



Pethetic. By people who know diddly squat about the business of professional racing.


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## oldroadman (8 Jun 2014)

Mis-spell, the word should be PATHETIC. Sorry...
But it's been a good laugh reading some of the stuff on this thread!


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## suzeworld (8 Jun 2014)

Don't worry on that score, they won't even recognise him quickly enough to frame their insults, will they? Newbie-shnewbies


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2014)

This whole business reminds me of the clamour to take Beckham to the last World Cup. It was a blessing in disguise when he got injured and couldn't play. Maybe Wiggo should do us all a favour and trip over a Swiss goatherd or something.


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## suzeworld (9 Jun 2014)

Hardly like Bechkam. Wiggo is still very prime.


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## SWSteve (9 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> Hardly like Bechkam. Wiggo is still very prime.



They both have lots of tattoos and change hairstyles regularly, all we need now is Wiggo in a sarong


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## suzeworld (9 Jun 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> They both have lots of tattoos and change hairstyles regularly, all we need now is Wiggo in a sarong



Good point.


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## smutchin (9 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> Wiggo is still very prime.



Is he though? He's shown some good form of late but nothing like the form he showed in 2012. I still rate him very highly and he would be an awesome superdomestique for Froome if only they could get over their differences, but not a GC contender in his own right. 

Anyway, the parallel isn't just about form, it's about how he would fit in the team. You can't just pick someone because they're a National Treasure if their presence would unbalance the team. 

And if you have to pick one or the other, which sadly seems to be the case, then it has to be Froome.


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## TissoT (9 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> Hardly like Bechkam. Wiggo is still very prime.


And they both have the same Agent .... I think wiggo will take a simular role to bechkam
Who wants to ride a grand tour (he has proved his point) ... when you have his popularity off the bike ...
They treat him like a god when he arrives at the Manchester velo ...


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## suzeworld (9 Jun 2014)

@ Smutchin, Yeah, I am not saying he'd be a better GC contender than Froome on this year's course, but he would be a massive asset to the team, you'd think.

But Brailsford's latest comments seem designed to hint at a broader issue than just how the two prima donnas get along, read this on the Eurosport site:



> But Brailsford dispelled suggestions that Froome would have the final say on the selection of the team, especially given the fractious relationship between the two riders after Froome helped Wiggins win the 2012 Tour.
> 
> "Trust and harmony are important considerations and it is a difficult decision," he added. "I'm not just talking about the harmony between Chris and Brad but harmony amongst the riders and staff.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Jun 2014)

I'm still a bit puzzled by the reasoning behind this. I can see three potential reasons:
* Wiggins, despite his recent statements that he is willing to ride for Froome, has thrown a hissy fit and stepped out of line with his recent statement.
* Froome has thrown a hissy fit and, in line with his recent anti-Wiggins spin, refused to ride with Wiggins on the team.
* Brailsford has decided that, despite his obvious advantages on the road, the cost to team unity means that on balance Wiggins should not be picked.

I'd tend towards the third, with a bit of the other two thrown in. And I wonder how wise it is.
After all pro cycling is not just about winning races, it's also about pleasing the sponsor. Sky would appear to be relatively unpopular with non-British fans ("tested positive for smug" etc), and the resevoir of goodwill with casual British followers of cycling will be tested by this. The current perception, looking at various sporting fora on the web, and the press, seems to be that good ole Brad has been kicked out by a big headed South African. Not a fair assessment of the situation, but I don't think it's an inaccurate description of current perception.

Being seen to discard the twin Queen Mothers of British cycling, Wiggins and Cavendish, may worry the moneybags in Sky, especially if Froome doesn't deliver.

A bit more Strauss/Pietersen than Cooper/Bugner (and yes, I do know where Andrew Strauss was born, and Bradley Wiggins, come to that).


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## Ganymede (9 Jun 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm still a bit puzzled by the reasoning behind this. I can see three potential reasons:
> * Wiggins, despite his recent statements that he is willing to ride for Froome, has thrown a hissy fit and stepped out of line with his recent statement.
> * Froome has thrown a hissy fit and, in line with his recent anti-Wiggins spin, refused to ride with Wiggins on the team.
> * Brailsford has decided that, despite his obvious advantages on the road, the cost to team unity means that on balance Wiggins should not be picked.
> ...


Yes - what puzzles me is Froome publicly stating that if he was out then Sky should back Richie Porte. Seems inflammatory to me and also - is Porte really a likely winner of the Tour? I'm not anti-Froome but to me this doesn't show great judgement, either thinking it or saying it in public.


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## Ganymede (9 Jun 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Yes - what puzzles me is Froome publicly stating that if he was out then Sky should back Richie Porte. Seems inflammatory to me and also - is Porte really a likely winner of the Tour? I'm not anti-Froome but to me this doesn't show great judgement, either thinking it or saying it in public.



In the interests of full disclosure I should add that I _am _a bit of a Wiggo fan and it was his success that got me into cycling, even though I'm only a utility cyclist not a racer.


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## Hont (9 Jun 2014)

Brailsford is saying that the decision has not been made yet.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-speaks-about-wiggins-froome-spat

So now we can have four pages of debate on whether that's just PR fluff or whether that's actually the case.


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

Yes, but if it is to be one or the other for team harmony reasons then it has to be Froome. On the other hand, most top sports managers, and I firmly believe Brailsford to be one such, care little for team harmony and may well like a bit of frisson in the ranks.


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Brailsford is saying that the decision has not been made yet.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-speaks-about-wiggins-froome-spat
> 
> So now we can have four pages of debate on whether that's just PR fluff or whether that's actually the case.


Interesting that. I read that and thought it was either damage limitation or true and Wiggins was being extremely clever and provoking a backlash against him being excluded. I love the intrigue.


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## Hont (9 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> Interesting that. I read that and thought it was either damage limitation or true and Wiggins was being extremely clever and provoking a backlash against him being excluded. I love the intrigue.


Yes! Maybe Wiggins saw which way the wind was blowing and has played a master stroke.

God the race is going to be so boring after all this.


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## Ganymede (9 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Yes! Maybe Wiggins saw which way the wind was blowing and has played a master stroke.
> 
> God the race is going to be so boring after all this.


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## themosquitoking (9 Jun 2014)

Froome is clearly the better rider between him and Wiggins but at the moment Wiggins is the better rider out of him and Porte. Froome would be a fool not to accept any help offered that is better than he can expect from those he wants.


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## Chris Norton (9 Jun 2014)

Having watched todays climb, Wiggins would have been perfect domestique in that grind big power and just explode yourself for your leader. The question is not could he do a job for Froome, it's whether the job needs doing by Wiggins and all that entails. If he smashes it switzerland then this thread will reach boiling point. LOL.


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## oldroadman (9 Jun 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm still a bit puzzled by the reasoning behind this. I can see three potential reasons:
> * Wiggins, despite his recent statements that he is willing to ride for Froome, has thrown a hissy fit and stepped out of line with his recent statement.
> * Froome has thrown a hissy fit and, in line with his recent anti-Wiggins spin, refused to ride with Wiggins on the team.
> * Brailsford has decided that, despite his obvious advantages on the road, the cost to team unity means that on balance Wiggins should not be picked.
> ...



I suspect that the money men at Sky don't actually care much - the test is how many extra customers does in bring in. Which is why they have multi-channels on footy, and zero on cycling, excepting what they pick up from other broadcasters. You simply have to understand it's about commercial advantage. Which is not what Sky are about - they will probably be gone as a team by the end of 2015 or 16, however many TdF wins they get. The biggest impact is the first win, and for that they are doubtless grateful to Sir Bradley, Mr Brailsford, and the team.


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## simon briggs (10 Jun 2014)

I think this is pretty simple really.

Dave Brailsford has proved (within Sky and British cycling) that he knows what he is doing. I would think that the internal stats would prove that Chris Frome's profile is closer to a TDF winner (at this stage in the season) than Wiggins. Yes the California win was good but I would have rather see Wiggins go to the Giro and win that to prove he has true class in a grand tour.

I would also think that internal politics plays a part and there is no love loss between Wiggins and Frome and I am not sure that because of that Sky would have been confident that wiggins would have worked as hard for Frome. I suspect Wiggins still believes that he should be no1.

The BBC interview is Wiggins way of saying im on the market and new teams come for me if you want - he will be at Katusha this time next year!!


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## Shadowfax (10 Jun 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Pethetic. By people who know diddly squat about the business of professional racing.


 ...and probably finance the team through their Sky subscriptions ?

Professional racing knows didly squat about keeping the punters happy I'd say.

Wink.


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## martint235 (10 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> Dave Brailsford has proved (within Sky and British cycling) that he knows what he is doing. I would think that the internal stats would prove that Chris Frome's profile is closer to a TDF winner (at this stage in the season) than Wiggins. Yes the California win was good but I would have rather see Wiggins go to the Giro and win that to prove he has true class in a grand tour.


He's also proved that he's not scared of taking unpopular decisions. It's more important to Brailsford that at the end of the TdF the yellow jersey has Sky written on the front than who is actually wearing it. I think he'll send the team best suited to achieving that than worry about whether or not two of them can't stand each other.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> I think this is pretty simple really.
> 
> Dave Brailsford has proved (within Sky and British cycling) that he knows what he is doing. I would think that the internal stats would prove that Chris Frome's profile is closer to a TDF winner (at this stage in the season) than Wiggins. Yes the California win was good but I would have rather see Wiggins go to the Giro and win that to prove he has true class in a grand tour.
> 
> ...


I think the internal politics must be _*the*_ factor. It's not a question of who is a more likely TdF winner, CF or BW, it's obviously Froome. The question is, who's a better TdF domestique - BW or (say) Porte (or someone else). Having seen Wiggins do the ole "stifle the attacks on the hill by riding tempo" bit pretty darn well in the California and some tough riding in Paris Roubaix you'd have thought BW would be in with a better than decent shout.

I imagine Sky are probably just as keen to stop having to pay the turbulent Wiggins his no doubt enormous salary as he is to be riding in higher profile events.


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## Hont (10 Jun 2014)

Porte's below par display yesterday must have caused some selection worries.

If I was Sir Dave I'd say to Froome, Porte's not good enough to go. If you want to take him you'll have to take Wiggins too.


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## simon briggs (10 Jun 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think the internal politics must be _*the*_ factor. It's not a question of who is a more likely TdF winner, CF or BW, it's obviously Froome. The question is, who's a better TdF domestique - BW or (say) Porte (or someone else). Having seen Wiggins do the ole "stifle the attacks on the hill by riding tempo" bit pretty darn well in the California and some tough riding in Paris Roubaix you'd have thought BW would be in with a better than decent shout.
> 
> I imagine Sky are probably just as keen to stop having to pay the turbulent Wiggins his no doubt enormous salary as he is to be riding in higher profile events.



agreed - I suspect that Wiggins is on a decent contract that relates to races taken part in.

Perhaps not a popular view but Wiggins is clearly on a downward spiral - TBF he is getting on a little, but I suspect that his best year are behind him


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## JBGooner (10 Jun 2014)

The thing that annoys me about Wiggins not going - apart from Britain's second ever best GC rider not being allowed to ride in the worlds biggest race and one that starts in his own country  - is that all but one or two out of the twenty two teams that are riding the Tour would love to have him. Most of them would have him as their team leader. 

Shame he can't sign for OGE now.


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## Hont (10 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> Perhaps not a popular view but Wiggins is clearly on a downward spiral


Not a correct view either . He's way better than last year.


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## MisterStan (10 Jun 2014)

JBGooner said:


> The thing that annoys me about Wiggins not going - apart from Britain's second ever best GC rider not being allowed to ride in the worlds biggest race and one that starts in his own country  - is that all but one or two out of the twenty two teams that are riding the Tour would love to have him. Most of them would have him as their team leader.
> 
> Shame he can't sign for OGE now.


He still wouldn't win.


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## JBGooner (10 Jun 2014)

MisterStan said:


> He still wouldn't win.



No, probably not but certainly a finish in the top ten with an outside chance of a podium finish. Good chance of a stage win as well.


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## montage (10 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Porte's below par display yesterday must have caused some selection worries.
> 
> If I was Sir Dave I'd say to Froome, Porte's not good enough to go. If you want to take him you'll have to take Wiggins too.



Wiggo must be licking his lips having seen Porte's performance


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## simon briggs (10 Jun 2014)

Hont said:


> Not a correct view either . He's way better than last year.



agreed but last year was poor and he really should have pushed on - he will not win another GT. i really do think he was lucky to have had Sky around him in 2012 - he was gifted his win (if you can say such a thing in the hardest sport in the world). Even if he joins another team - and he has said that track is his focus next year - he would need a great team around him and im not sure he would get the investment from anyone else.

Only my opinion but I think Wiggins lacks class as well - Sky will be glad to be rid when it happens.


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## perplexed (10 Jun 2014)

I, as others have alluded to, also don't think Porte is a shoe-in for the Tour.

He's off the boil at the moment, and after all, Dave Brailsford has said the Daupine _and_ Switzerland are 'selection' races...

I'm inclined to think Wiggins will be on the team sheet rather than Porte (and I like Porte) on current performance...


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## Chris Norton (10 Jun 2014)

Porte's had a tricky year for sure. I hope it all comes together with Froome, Wiggins and Thomas all giving it large in the Sky Train.


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## RobNewcastle (10 Jun 2014)

If Porte gets shelled out the back door badly on Saturday which is a proper mountain stage then you really have to start asking questions. Sure riders can often need the final few weeks before the tour to tweak fitness but not a full on rescue situation. I suffered from virus related condition a few years ago and it played havoc with energy levels and I'm just Joe public not a rider about to take on the toughest event going. Hope he makes it though, great rider.


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## rich p (10 Jun 2014)

Porte will be in TeamFroome whatever happens between now and July IMHO.


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## oldroadman (11 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> agreed but last year was poor and he really should have pushed on - he will not win another GT. i really do think he was lucky to have had Sky around him in 2012 - he was gifted his win (if you can say such a thing in the hardest sport in the world). Even if he joins another team - and he has said that track is his focus next year - he would need a great team around him and im not sure he would get the investment from anyone else.
> 
> Only my opinion but I think Wiggins lacks class as well - Sky will be glad to be rid when it happens.



An opinion on all matters you are entitled to express. Nobody is gifted a TdF win, and anyone who believes that is just plain wrong. The Sky team was built around BW is 2012 because the parcours suited him and gave Sky the best shot at a win. There are other teams with enough budget (or who would find it) to offer a contract to BW - just look east or southern hemisphere.
Lacks class - do you do other jokes??
I'm not particularly a BW fan but to make comments about like that about the first ever British TdF winner....it amazes me how miserable the natives are and how there is a desire to knock success. No wonder for years GB failed to win anything. And now we do it's "bring them down they are all useless anyway". Former riders who went and tried might see things differently!


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## MikeG (11 Jun 2014)

oldroadman said:


> ..it amazes me how miserable the natives are and how there is a desire to knock success. No wonder for years GB failed to win anything. And now we do it's "bring them down they are all useless anyway"...........



Abso-bl**dy-lutely! The British love setting people up on a pedestal only because it gives them the chance to mock louder and longer. They do it in all sports, and it is as predictable as the rising sun.


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## simon briggs (11 Jun 2014)

oldroadman said:


> An opinion on all matters you are entitled to express. Nobody is gifted a TdF win, and anyone who believes that is just plain wrong. The Sky team was built around BW is 2012 because the parcours suited him and gave Sky the best shot at a win. There are other teams with enough budget (or who would find it) to offer a contract to BW - just look east or southern hemisphere.
> Lacks class - do you do other jokes??
> I'm not particularly a BW fan but to make comments about like that about the first ever British TdF winner....it amazes me how miserable the natives are and how there is a desire to knock success. No wonder for years GB failed to win anything. And now we do it's "bring them down they are all useless anyway". Former riders who went and tried might see things differently!



Ok maybe a few words were a little harsh - I do not make a point of bashing the British believe me. I know its not a popular view but I believe that Wiggins lacked class last year not congratulating Frome after his TDF win.

Yes the 2012 team was built around him but Frome could have equally won if it had been the other way round.

I think if you look at the history books - yes Wiggins was the first British person to win the TDF - but has he really pushed on from there - where are the other GT successes - why not go all out to win the Giro or Vuleta, spring classics - show that class on the road (BTW I fully respect his olympic track success)


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## MikeG (11 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> .....congratulating *Frome* after his TDF win.
> 
> ....... but *Frome* could have equally won .......



I believe you have been told about this before. *Frome* is a place in Somerset. *Froome* is a professional bike rider. Could you make it clear which one you are talking about, please?


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## smutchin (11 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> has he really pushed on from there - where are the other GT successes - why not go all out to win the Giro or Vuleta, spring classics - show that class on the road



Look at the sacrifices he made in the build up to the 2012 TdF - aside from the physical rigours of the intense training, he also spent the best part of a year away from his family. It's one hell of a commitment. Maybe it's a temperament thing - some other riders seem more driven to make those kind of sacrifices but you can hardly blame him for not wanting to go through all that again.

And if all had gone well in 2011, the 2012 TdF might not even have been his first GT win. (Not forgetting 2009, when he came a very creditable 4th against a bunch of dopers.)

As for the Classics, he made a pretty good stab at Paris-Roubaix this year and might even have won it with a bit of luck on his side.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Jun 2014)

I reckon it's far too early to write Porte off. If I remember correctly, last year he did sterling service but then disappeared and we all thought Froome was left on his own to go for the GC win. But Porte came back and was there at the last big climb. 

I don't reckon it is a parcours for a Wiggins yellow but he looks to be in good form. If last year's events are really but behind both of them, Wiggins would really add value to the Sky team, IMO.


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## oldroadman (11 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> Ok maybe a few words were a little harsh - I do not make a point of bashing the British believe me. I know its not a popular view but I believe that Wiggins lacked class last year not congratulating Frome after his TDF win.
> 
> Yes the 2012 team was built around him but Frome could have equally won if it had been the other way round.
> 
> I think if you look at the history books - yes Wiggins was the first British person to win the TDF - but has he really pushed on from there - where are the other GT successes - why not go all out to win the Giro or Vuleta, spring classics - show that class on the road (BTW I fully respect his olympic track's a rite of passage for even workers to get round any GT success)



Crikey, the majority of riders in the peloton have no chance of winning a GT and would love to be able to win one. Isn't that enough? It's a pro rite of passage for stage race riders to get round a GT, very few will ever do more than that, but still be proud of it. The multi-winners of the past may have dominated in their day, in a different time and with different methods. Why not criticise anyone else who managed GT one win?


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## simon briggs (11 Jun 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Crikey, the majority of riders in the peloton have no chance of winning a GT and would love to be able to win one. Isn't that enough? It's a pro rite of passage for stage race riders to get round a GT, very few will ever do more than that, but still be proud of it. The multi-winners of the past may have dominated in their day, in a different time and with different methods. Why not criticise anyone else who managed GT one win?



all fair points - but my point was really about the decision (potentially) to omit BW from the TDF team. There is no doubt that he is a very talented rider who deserves his place in the history books - however his attitude / arrogance does not sit well with me - perhaps the Knighthood (WTF was that about!) has gone to his head. The internal politics - potential problems his inclusion will raise are obviously major concerns for DB.

As someone else has said SKY will want a GT winner whoever it is and its DB's job to deliver that. 

In regards to history - if you look at Merckx (I have just finished reading the excellent "cannibal") his passion to win everything he entered was total. I would love to see the riders of today take on the Giro, TDF and classics. Of course its a different time and we can all count the drugs into the mix, but if you factor in the technology, diet, planning that all the teams have at their disposal today verses the steel bikes, toe clips, poor planning, diet, multiple stages in one day - perhaps the playing field is closer that you think.


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## smutchin (11 Jun 2014)

simon briggs said:


> perhaps the playing field is closer that you think.



Perhaps oldroadman is more clued up on this subject than you realise (there's a subtle hint in his username).


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## TissoT (11 Jun 2014)

A report says "wiggo" is back in training on the track ... this will explain his absence from the grand tours


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## rich p (11 Jun 2014)

smutchin said:


> And if all had gone well in 2011, the 2012 TdF might not even have been his first GT win. (Not forgetting 2009, when he came a very creditable 4th against a bunch of dopers.)
> 
> .


In my eyes he won the 2009 TdF. Contador, Schleck and Armstrong were undoubtedly doped up.
I think it's fair to say that Sir Brad hasn't done himself any favours sometimes in the past in the PR department. Middle finger salute on leaving hospital, swearing in public, drunk in public etc. For me it largely adds to his charisma as a maverick but I can understand why others might view it differently.


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## Pedrosanchezo (11 Jun 2014)

The whole Wiggins is arrogant thing is based on what? 

We see, at best, snippets of these riders through press conferences, snapshots and on the television. How can anyone be completely judged on such short, pressurised appearances - viewed from what can only be described as a keyhole? 

There will be other perspectives too: Wiggins the friend, Wiggins the father, Wiggins the husband, Wiggins the son etc etc etc etc.................

The above are more likely to know the person slightly better than the armchair viewer who picks up a newspaper and see pics of Wiggo on a night out and think "alcoholic", "wasted talent" or similar. 

He might come across as arrogant and short with the press, in some instances, but would it be better if he wasn't honest and merely replied to questions with pre thought out answers? Wiggins, imo, is a breath of fresh air in all sport, not just cycling.


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## oldroadman (11 Jun 2014)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> The whole Wiggins is arrogant thing is based on what?
> 
> We see, at best, snippets of these riders through press conferences, snapshots and on the television. How can anyone be completely judged on such short, pressurised appearances - viewed from what can only be described as a keyhole?
> 
> ...



Yep, like the rest of us humans, he has his failings and moments. Much rather that than some bland PR speaking clone, which is what some seem to expect. Message, as above, we're all allowed to be ourselves, get annoyed by stupid questions, foul innuendo by people looking for an "angle" who don't believe plain hard work can deliver results, and be a "character". I can recall a lot "worse"! No names, etc.


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## RobNewcastle (11 Jun 2014)

Seems like a lot of this debate comes down to Froome fans v Wiggins fans. I like both and the fact they're very different. Wiggins is a proper character, lol and I like Froome's understated manner. I just prefer the way Froome rides, the way he attacks in the mountains.


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## StuAff (11 Jun 2014)

They're very different in riding styles and so many other ways, but they have a lot of things in common, not least a difficult childhood with an absent father. It strikes me that Kath Wiggins' comment that while Brad the husband and father was a great bloke, Brad the cyclist was 'a bit of a prat' could apply to Froomy as well. It's a shame they've never got on, and seems like they never will.


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## thom (11 Jun 2014)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> The whole Wiggins is arrogant thing is based on what?
> 
> We see, at best, snippets of these riders through press conferences, snapshots and on the television. How can anyone be completely judged on such short, pressurised appearances - viewed from what can only be described as a keyhole?
> 
> ...





oldroadman said:


> Yep, like the rest of us humans, he has his failings and moments. Much rather that than some bland PR speaking clone, which is what some seem to expect. Message, as above, we're all allowed to be ourselves, get annoyed by stupid questions, foul innuendo by people looking for an "angle" who don't believe plain hard work can deliver results, and be a "character". I can recall a lot "worse"! No names, etc.



I don't know what its like to be in a bike race with microphones stuffed up your nose but I dare say what end's up on air is genuine from Wiggo in those moments and I have a pile of sympathy with him for people wanting to read into those utterances things he doesn't mean. But if you think for one minute that a guy who is managed by Simon Fuller, who goes to the press on a slow news day, doesn't have a script down pat to paint himself in a self-serving way, a script beyond control and indeed blandness.....

From what I see, the evidence stacks up equally for the narrative of Wiggo as victim of Froome's personal distrust, as does Wiggo throwing his toys out of the pram as he ain't got the commitment to be a domestique to Froome in the tour this year. Why I think this is because the only thing to benefit from last week's media round was Wiggo's personal image itself. He ain't got many miles on the clock left and of all the people to cast aspersions on Froome's book as just another cyclist taking the opportunity to cash in on the moment, he's in no position to point the finger at a guy who's won the tour in spectacular fashion but has his first book out... but he does have a specific self interest in his public image.

I think only Brailsford really knows what is going on, only Brailsford actually makes the decisions as to who goes to the tour and you know what, none of us know now what that outcome could be. For sure, Wiggo's public utterances make it no easier for him to be selected and that was his choice.

For these reasons, I specifically consider Wiggo guilty of exhibiting pre-meditated and hence un-classy and un-genuine behaviour off the bike this time, aimed solely at controlling his public image and marketability. That is his weakness, his frailty and a reason in fact to empathise with him.

I do want him to go off and do well at the Commonwealth games and Vuelta. But right now I'm pissed off with him taking something of Froome's limelight, for Froome is the most exceptional GC talent ever to race as a British rider. Not for the first time, it would have been more classy for him to keep his mouth shut off the bike. Unfortunately people don't care. They want a Wiggo story. For that, unfortunately, we are just as unclassy ourselves.

(Note, I may or may not have been under the influence of Belgian Beer while writing this post)...


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## smutchin (11 Jun 2014)

tissot said:


> A report says "wiggo" is back in training on the track ... this will explain his absence from the grand tours



Might be more the other way round - ie his absence from the GTs explains his return to the track. 

Anyway, he's been announced as a member of the England road cycling team at the Commonwealth Games. I can't imagine they'd have picked him if they didn't know for a fact he wasn't riding the TdF, which finishes just four days before the CG TT.


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## Crackle (12 Jun 2014)

Interesting @thom . I agree with some of your points. It hadn't occurred to me that he may never have intended to ride the Tour but it is possible, in which case, the thlot pickens. Orica Greenedge are certainly looking firm favourites for his services next year.


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## thom (12 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> Interesting @thom . I agree with some of your points. It hadn't occurred to me that he may never have intended to ride the Tour but it is possible, in which case, the thlot pickens. Orica Greenedge are certainly looking firm favourites for his services next year.


I just think a guy "managed by Simon Fuller" is not appearing in public on breakfast TV to be a "genuine bloke" but to manage his cash earning potential down the line. I don't begrudge that of him really but I'm very suspicious of the message.


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## dellzeqq (12 Jun 2014)

would Wiggins be an asset in the team time trial? Yes. Could he do for Froome what Froome did for him in 2010? He could get close. Is he more or less likely than Porte to be leading Froome up a mountain toward the end of a long day? On current form, yes. Is there a disbenefit in having two really good domestiques rather than one? Given the lack of support received by Froome last year, then obviously not. Would Wiggins be welcomed by the crowd that effectively pays Sky's wage bill? You betcha.

So the only reason why a vastly popular English rider is not riding in a Tour that starts in Yorkshire is Froome's inability to deal with Wiggins in an adult way. That's poor. 

As for Wiggins not wanting to ride........all Brailsford has to do is to ask him straight up. And then we're done. 

For what it's worth I reckon he might well ride the TdF, and it might just be that Froome is being managed by Brailsford.


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## thom (12 Jun 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> would Wiggins be an asset in the team time trial? Yes. Could he do for Froome what Froome did for him in 2010? He could get close. Is he more or less likely than Porte to be leading Froome up a mountain toward the end of a long day? On current form, yes. Is there a disbenefit in having two really good domestiques rather than one? Given the lack of support received by Froome last year, then obviously not. Would Wiggins be welcomed by the crowd that effectively pays Sky's wage bill? You betcha.
> 
> So the only reason why a vastly popular English rider is not riding in a Tour that starts in Yorkshire is Froome's inability to deal with Wiggins in an adult way. That's poor.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, the only time trial this year is the itt on stage 20.


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## jowwy (12 Jun 2014)

thom said:


> Just to clarify, the only time trial this year is the itt on stage 20.


I still think on current form and from watching cali and the dauphne - wiggins would be a better domestique than any of the current squad - porte, zandio, kyrienka are all struggling for form right now


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## Hont (12 Jun 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> would Wiggins be an asset in the team time trial? Yes. Could he do for Froome what Froome did for him in 2010? He could get close. Is he more or less likely than Porte to be leading Froome up a mountain toward the end of a long day? On current form, yes. Is there a disbenefit in having two really good domestiques rather than one? Given the lack of support received by Froome last year, then obviously not. Would Wiggins be welcomed by the crowd that effectively pays Sky's wage bill? You betcha.
> 
> So the only reason why a vastly popular English rider is not riding in a Tour that starts in Yorkshire is Froome's inability to deal with Wiggins in an adult way. That's poor.



Agree with some of that. By all arguments having Wiggins in the squad is more likely to achieve the desires of the team - winning the Tour and maximising publicity for their sponsors. It should be possible for two adults - one of whom has expressed no aims to win the Tour - to work together for three weeks to achieve this. I wouldn't put all of the blame on either party, however, for why this appears not to be the case.

The nightmare scenario for Sky surely has to be Froome crashing out at some point and Wiggins sat at home on the sofa. Regardless of how unlikely is a Wiggins win, he would still be Sky's best chance of a podium with Porte's form being so, apparently, below his best.

[As Thom pointed out there is no Team Time Trial in this year's tour. And 2010? I think maybe you were you referring to 2011 when Froome helped Wiggins in the Vuelta or 2012 when he helped him in the Tour.]


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## Dogtrousers (12 Jun 2014)

It's a shame Wiggins isn't going to be there, but that looks like it. Over the years it's been relatively rare for me to have a favourite rider who is actually in GC contention. Wiggins' absence has just meant a return to those days. And in some ways that's all to the better really. I'll just be barracking for my randomly chosen favourites (Kwiatkowski - is he still eligible for the white jersey this year?) and, of course, Cav!


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## Chris Norton (12 Jun 2014)

If wiggins wins the swiss? He'll have to be picked. If he gets a top 10 then it's a real hard decision cos that course looks mighty harder than the Dauphine.


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## 400bhp (13 Jun 2014)

It's all a bit weird this.

If Wiggins wants to ride the TDF and he doesn't because of team orders then it could be argued he should have seen this coming and gone and rode for another team.

I would like to see some actual stats on crash rates from major races, but in my head there's a material risk that one of the favourites end up on the deck, perhaps more so this year with the cobbles. So, you have arguably, two of the top 5 GT riders in your squad and you only pick one to ride the TDF.

Hmmm


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## Rob88 (14 Jun 2014)

The Froome / Wiggins story stirs up echoes of the Seb Coe / Steve Ovett Olympics face off back in the 80's. Such a scenario is perfect for the nation's sports media. They can indulge themselves in whipping up a polarisation of fans comparing the faults and attributes of both and since they're both Brits it isn't unpatriotic, it's sporting luxury. If Wiggo does "a ride" in Switzerland the story won't just have legs it could explode on the run in to the Tour start, depending on how England does in the world cup, Andy Murray at Wimbledon and the weather (in England) itself and the absence of competing big news stories at the start of July. I am sure that the "suits" at SKY have figured that much out although they may not yet fully understand the phenomenon of "Tour Fever". As a global media corporation is seems inconceivable that they don't see the potential of this one - or do they? Would it be too cynical to think the whole story is being stage managed? Last minute reprieve from the govenor, petitions on Facebook for Wiggo etc

I can understand Wiggo's not very subtle stirring of the pot he knows his body clock is ticking and he is a man on a mission and he is media savvy enough to know how to play it. He also has his post super-hero career to think of. I can also understand the beard/tattoo thing. In the modern cycling age they all look the bloody same in their space helmets and sunglasses, Wiggo stands out in the bunch alright even without a yellow jersey. I loved the piece that David Millar did but I don't think that it will be respect that gets Wiggo to the start line, it will be a media storm. A lot of things could happen before then of course but if the whole thing does turn into a media circus and the story revolves around our two prize bulls something completely different could happen. Taking it all into account, I put 50 quid on Contador yesterday at 11/5


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## RedRider (14 Jun 2014)

I thought Wiggins was supposed to like The Small Faces


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## 400bhp (14 Jun 2014)

Rob88 said:


> The Froome / Wiggins story stirs up echoes of the Seb Coe / Steve Ovett Olympics face off back in the 80's. Such a scenario is perfect for the nation's sports media. They can indulge themselves in whipping up a polarisation of fans comparing the faults and attributes of both and since they're both Brits it isn't unpatriotic, it's sporting luxury. If Wiggo does "a ride" in Switzerland the story won't just have legs it could explode on the run in to the Tour start, depending on how England does in the world cup, Andy Murray at Wimbledon and the weather (in England) itself and the absence of competing big news stories at the start of July. I am sure that the "suits" at SKY have figured that much out although they may not yet fully understand the phenomenon of "Tour Fever". As a global media corporation is seems inconceivable that they don't see the potential of this one - or do they? *Would it be too cynical to think the whole story is being stage managed*? Last minute reprieve from the govenor, petitions on Facebook for Wiggo etc


Not cynical at all.

Is the TDF on Sky? Or is it just ITV/Eurosport?


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## smutchin (14 Jun 2014)

400bhp said:


> Is the TDF on Sky? Or is it just ITV/Eurosport?



Sky would love to get the TdF but the EBU has negotiated with ASO to get pan-European rights for Eurosport and Sky don't really get a look in. Just don't ask me the details of how it works but I think the EBU is basically an alliance of public service broadcasters that work together to counter the financial might of commercial broadcasters like Sky. 

Anyway, the upshot is that Eurosport have the TdF until 2019 at least, which is jolly good news all round.


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## User169 (14 Jun 2014)

So. No comments on wiggos bicycling today?


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## rich p (14 Jun 2014)

Delftse Post said:


> So. No comments on wiggos bicycling today?


He was my pick in the pro-pundit and the useless twat let me down, let the nation down but more importantly let himself down


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

Do we have aTdS thread? Not sure from that performance if he's serious about this one.


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## Rob88 (15 Jun 2014)

Well I did not see Wiggins' ride but I saw Fabian's and Martins before I had to go out and I have to say I felt quite ill looking at the course. For a prologue, with all the main contenders nerves riding on it, a course like that was simply criminal. As I left I said to my wife, I did not expect Wiggo to finish in the first 10 because he would not be able to handle the descent - he's never raced on a motor-bike (to my knowledge - and I read every thing I can) It was designed for the locals Cancellara? Thank God it did not rain. Whoever said the Swiss were calculating remorseless bastards ? Well Orson Welles for one.


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## Rob88 (15 Jun 2014)

How curious, every time I try to respond on this site to people like Rich P above who do not show respect for professional cyclists and no doubt "ponder life" mysteries 
the software automatically converts my chosen adjective to *******s


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

I think you're probably misreading Rich's reply. I think it's all very much tongue in cheek and aimed squarely at those who might criticise Wiggo for coming 10th.


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## smutchin (15 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> I think you're probably misreading Rich's reply.



It's that time of year when discussion in this section of the forum turns to doping and Wiggins, and the regulars find their terrible sense of humour isn't indulged as much as usual.


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## Rob88 (15 Jun 2014)

Well Mr Crackle (if that's your real name) you obviously like his stuff and I have previously liked yours so I
'll reserve further judgement/comment.


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## rich p (15 Jun 2014)




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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

Rob88 said:


> the software automatically converts my chosen adjective to *******s


ukuleles? gazelles? bagpipes?


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## Joshua Plumtree (15 Jun 2014)

Cyclists?


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## suzeworld (15 Jun 2014)

Rob88 said:


> Taking it all into account, I put 50 quid on Contador yesterday at 11/5





I visualise you shuffling your pile of used notes from one side of the table to the other as you enumerate points.

And was this before or after beefy Bertie stormed into the lead at the Dauphine?


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> ukuleles? gazelles? bagpipes?


No, _adjectives_. How about fabulous, helpless, glaucous


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

oops - my mistake, dt - well spotted!


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## Rob88 (15 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> I visualise you shuffling your pile of used notes from one side of the table to the other as you enumerate points.
> 
> And was this before or after beefy Bertie stormed into the lead at the Dauphine?






I placed the bet with William Hill at 1.25pm Continental time (12.25pm UK time) Friday 13th. (Am in BialystokPoland now) So that was before Froome took his tumble and posted the thread at 13.48 UK time Sat 14th - probably an hour or so before Alberto
put the boot in? I caught that on Youtube Sat night.

I was as surprised as everyone else when Froome couldn't respond as he appeared OK after his fall the day before. My hunch on Contador was based on the stress that Froome
is going to face with the Wiggins selection business and my guess that Bertie has a bit more form to come before the Tour. When I saw the footage of Froome's amazing attacks on Stage two I could not believe the difference in pedalling cadence between him and Contador. Difficult to judge but it looked like Froome was revving 30-40% higher than Contador. I have always found it painfull to watch Froome on a bike as his saddle looks so low to me. I can understand the science gurus tweaking his position to make him streamlined for time trialling but if the cost of that is a lower position than required for max power climbing - he is obliged to twiddle his balls off. The fact that Bertie stayed with him to the end although by contrast he was definitely overgeared when he tried to take Froome on the line, suggested to me that Bertie possibly has the beating of him physically and he is on another level in race tactics anyway. It's all guesswork of course but I think Alberto's smart enough to learn what he needs to do to beat Froome. It wouldn't surpise me to see him climbing on lower gears himself next month.


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## suzeworld (15 Jun 2014)

Bet the odds are not so good today.


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## Rob88 (15 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> Bet the odds are not so good today.


Just looked on William Hill, Froome was 18/25 on Friday now down to 3/4, Contador was 11/5 now on 6/4, Nibali unchanged at 8/1 Talansky was 65/1 now 40/1 (Cadel Evans at 125/1 has got to be worth a tenner - just for the hell of it)


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## tigger (15 Jun 2014)

Rob88 said:


> (Cadel Evans at 125/1 has got to be worth a tenner - if you like burning cash



Fixed that for you!


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## Rob88 (16 Jun 2014)

tigger said:


> Fixed that for you!


Well perhaps a tenner is rash, maybe a fiver forlorn hope then. Still there have been stranger bets - a guy recently posted on the Facebook "80's Cycling remembered" how he put 100 quid on Greg Lemond in 1989 at odds of 100 to 1. Must have been worth a shedload back then.


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## NorvernRob (16 Jun 2014)

Anyone still think Wiggins has any hope of the tour after today? It looks to me like he's thrown his toys out of the pram, has given up and the only place he's going is another team. Henao and Kennaugh look like they have a great chance though.


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Jun 2014)

NorvernRob said:


> Anyone still think Wiggins has any hope of the tour after today? It looks to me like he's thrown his toys out of the pram, has given up and the only place he's going is another team. Henao and Kennaugh look like they have a great chance though.



He doesn't look very interested, does he? He may not be the designated rider on this one, and sure, he's leaving Sky at the end of the season, but he doesn't look like he's prepared to help his teammates very much.


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## NorvernRob (16 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> He doesn't look very interested, does he? He may not be the designated rider on this one, and sure, he's leaving Sky at the end of the season, but he doesn't look like he's prepared to help his teammates very much.



Which, if it's true, is criminal for a highly paid employee and a kick in the teeth to his team mates working their arses off for each other. I wonder if the rumours about OGE are or were true, unless he's already signed something why on earth would they want to pay his wages when they have the Yates' brothers who are massive prospects.


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## Roscoe (17 Jun 2014)

I would think Kennaugh will be included, apparently being touted as a future GT winner. Did well last year, apart from his unfortunate excursion off the road.

May be too early for Henao, can see him more likely being lined up for the Vuelta. Now that I've said that, he'll no doubt be off to the Tour!


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## thom (19 Jun 2014)

ASO should stick Wiggins on a turbo trainer on a pick-up truck during the Yorkshire stages in the publicity caravan.

That would actually keep most of the disgruntled souls happy.


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## NorvernRob (19 Jun 2014)

thom said:


> ASO should stick Wiggins on a turbo trainer on a pick-up truck during the Yorkshire stages in the publicity caravan.
> 
> That would actually keep most of the disgruntled souls happy.



They could put a paddle on the back instead of a wheel, put it in a big tub of Haribo and he could flick them all over the road as he pedals.


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## Ganymede (19 Jun 2014)

NorvernRob said:


> They could put a paddle on the back instead of a wheel, put it in a big tub of Haribo and he could flick them all over the road as he peddles.


That would keep _me_ happy...


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## thom (19 Jun 2014)

NorvernRob said:


> They could put a paddle on the back instead of a wheel, put it in a big tub of Haribo and he could flick them all over the road as he pedals.


Hawiggo's sour cherries...


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## 400bhp (19 Jun 2014)

thom said:


> ASO should stick Wiggins on a turbo trainer on a pick-up truck during the Yorkshire stages in the publicity caravan.
> 
> That would actually keep most of the disgruntled souls happy.



Would be awesome


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## 400bhp (9 Jul 2014)

400bhp said:


> I would like to see some actual stats on crash rates from major races, but in my head there's a material risk that one of the favourites end up on the deck, perhaps more so this year with the cobbles. So, you have arguably, two of the top 5 GT riders in your squad and you only pick one to ride the TDF.
> 
> Hmmm


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## SWSteve (10 Jul 2014)

I struggle to believe that Wiggo would have been in the lead group on Sunday up Côte du Jenkins.


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## MisterStan (10 Jul 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I struggle to believe that Wiggo would have been in the lead group on Sunday up Côte du Jenkins.


I don't see why not, Sunday was all about rolling hills, not climbing Ventoux.


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## Buddfox (10 Jul 2014)

MisterStan said:


> I don't see why not, Sunday was all about rolling hills, not climbing Ventoux.



He's not good on very steep climbs, the 30% gradient would have seen him dropped.


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## SWSteve (10 Jul 2014)

The dash up the 30% hill with attacks all over the place wouldn't have suited him


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## Hont (10 Jul 2014)

It was a pretty large group that was in the 2 seconds bunch, with a few others regarded as diesels, so I don't see why he wouldn't have maintained contact, but it's a moot point because he wasn't there.


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## JBGooner (10 Jul 2014)

I bet Porte will wish he had the Wiggin's diesel to tow him up the mountains in the next few days.


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