# DIY Audax Events for Idiots Made Easy



## Heltor Chasca (5 Feb 2018)

The idiot being me.

I have a few decent gaps in my calendar where there aren’t any suitable rides that I can enter. So I thought the time has come for me to put together some of my own DIYs. *(NB Routes and rides would be of the GPS variety)* The only trouble is I can’t get my head around some of the definitions on the AUK website and the new DIY section on the website makes littles sense in my tiny brain.

I really can’t distinguish between Mandatory; Advisory and Permanent DIY. And why there are different forms to fill in.

As I see it:

1/ I can either build my own route (I have already planned 3 different routes of 200+km.) I love maps so this is the fun part.

OR

2/ I can ask an organiser if I can use their established route/ride and use or adapt this so I can start from my doorstep or start/finish from the original départ and arrivée.

Sorry @Ian H I am doing my best to understand this fully before sending my entry to you! I can hear you groan with dread already. Pretty sure once I have done one DIY, I will be away.

Thanks in advance to any patient soul out there.


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## Ian H (5 Feb 2018)

I allow riders to start my permanent events from anywhere on the route. So, if you are able to start and finish at a point on the route nearest your home, you can ride the event without modification except for extra start/finish controls. 

If you want to use any of my routes for your own purposes (to construct a DIY for example), that's fine also.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Feb 2018)

Perms, routes designed by others that you can enter. May or may not allow validation by GPS.

DIY - you design the route

Advisory - The distance is calculated from min distance walking between your nominated controls. You only submit a list of your controls and distances in advance.
Mandatory - You submit a GPX track in advance that contains your DIY route. You must follow the exact route. Min distance calculated from track.


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Feb 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Perms, routes designed by others that you can enter. May or may not allow validation by GPS.
> 
> DIY - you design the route
> 
> ...



Hah! That I think, explains it perfectly. I am grateful. I just couldn’t pull apart the AUK website’s explanation. 

I can sleep now.


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Feb 2018)

Ian H said:


> I allow riders to start my permanent events from anywhere on the route. So, if you are able to start and finish at a point on the route nearest your home, you can ride the event without modification except for extra start/finish controls.
> 
> If you want to use any of my routes for your own purposes (to construct a DIY for example), that's fine also.



Thank you. I think from @YukonBoy ’s explanation I understand now. The likelihood is that I will do a MANDATORY DIY and follow a GPS route that I have constructed. With experience (and permission) I’ll try out some of the perms that come near to my house with amended start/finish controls.

@Ian H What sort of lead time do you need for a MANDATORY DIY with GPS to be submitted? Also the AUK website section pertaining to mandatory DIYs with GPS states that TCX files are fine. Is that correct?

I hope you don’t mind my questions being public so it can be useful to others.

Many thanks.


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## Ian H (6 Feb 2018)

Your questions are best directed to Tony Hull, the SW DIY organiser. In brief:-

Virtual brevet cards 'exist' as soon as you purchase them, so no waiting. Physical cards have to be posted to you.
The organiser will check your route in advance if you ask him to. Allow a couple of weeks at least for this.
If you're confident of your route and don't need it pre-checked, you can just enter online and ride. But the organiser does have the final say about validation.


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## Heltor Chasca (6 Feb 2018)

Ian H said:


> Your questions are best directed to Tony Hull, the SW DIY organiser. In brief:-
> 
> Virtual brevet cards 'exist' as soon as you purchase them, so no waiting. Physical cards have to be posted to you.
> The organiser will check your route in advance if you ask him to. Allow a couple of weeks at least for this.
> If you're confident of your route and don't need it pre-checked, you can just enter online and ride. But the organiser does have the final say about validation.



Thank you. I’m sorry about the identity mix up. Confucius reigns. This is very helpful.


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## PpPete (6 Feb 2018)

Much of the confusion seems to arise from the historical classification that DIYs are a kind of Permanent.
For students of audax history that may make sense, but in plain English DIYs are about as impermanent as they come.

The new DIY page seeks to remove some of the confusion by deliberately not mentioning the term "DIY Perm"

Granted, there are still three 'flavours' of DIYs... each with their own entry form, but that page does provide a link to something of an explanation 

And Perms are elsewhere ( I wish DIYs were not mentioned on that page, but it's not going to change now - will have to wait for the long-promised new website) 

Previous iterations of the DIYs web page divided things into Traditional DIY and DIY x GPS and then subdivided the latter into advisory and mandatory routing... and went into exhaustive detail about each kind - which apparently was even more confusing. 

It was recently suggested to me that a more logical subdivision would be, first into Advisory & Mandatory, and only then dividing up Advisory routing into traditional (receipts at controls) and validating by means of a GPS. That didn't seem much better. 

Not saying the new description is perfect ....


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## Heltor Chasca (6 Feb 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Thanks for the useful replies above...This is something that I've looked at and failed to understand too....but it's nice to understand.



Absolutely. Funnily enough I was exactly the same about childbirth, but it was easiest left to the children’s Mum.

That aside I’m really looking forward to cobbling together some DIYs. I have the makings of some really good routes already.


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## Banjo (7 Feb 2018)

If you cant stick rigidly to the route on a mandatory route due to unforseen road closure or something take some photos and email Tony Hull the details .He is very reasonable.So long as you make every effort to stick to the route and your final track is at least the nominal distance all will be ok.


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## Heltor Chasca (9 Mar 2018)

Just bought 3 virtual brevet cards and submitted my first DIY 200 for over the Easter weekend. I’m excited.

Poor Tony Hull has no idea what he’s let himself in for!


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Mar 2018)

Enjoy. It becomes second nature after a while. Do not worry if a ride does not appear on your results list straight away. I usually leave it about 10 days before chasing up a ride. Sometimes backlogs happen but as long as validated within 14 days it is all good I believe.


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## Aravis (25 Nov 2018)

Ian H said:


> Your questions are best directed to Tony Hull, the SW DIY organiser. In brief:-
> 
> Virtual brevet cards 'exist' as soon as you purchase them, so no waiting. Physical cards have to be posted to you.
> *The organiser will check your route in advance if you ask him to. Allow a couple of weeks at least for this.*
> If you're confident of your route and don't need it pre-checked, you can just enter online and ride. But the organiser does have the final say about validation.


For some strange reason I've found myself looking at mandatory DIY by GPS. Thanks to @Heltor Chasca for starting this useful thread.

After reading a lot of stuff the main question I still have is about the route itself. In particular, if you do submit your route far enough in advance, what would the organiser be checking for?

One possible issue I can think is leaving accidental "spurs" lying around, which if not removed might compromise the total distance.

As I understand it, a big attraction of the "mandatory by GPS" approach is that you can include as many meanderings as you like without the need to establish the shortest available distance between points. But are there any restrictions at all on what the route can do or where it can go?

I can well see that for a first attempt anyway, you'd be pretty foolish to pass up the offer of a pre-check, but it would still be good to know what to avoid.


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## Banjo (25 Nov 2018)

On some mapping sites you can accidently double back on yourself and it wont be immediately obvious .I check that the distance between kilometer markings doesnt suddenly get closer together on any part of the ride.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Nov 2018)

Your DIY Organiser will not be doing anything with your mandatory route in advance. After you do your ride you load the tracklog up and it gets automatically compared. Provided it matches close enough to the original it will pass. Else you may get wuestioned on deviations. If you do find a motorway or bridleway or closed road then just take the most sensible diversion you can rejoining route soon as and you will be fine.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Nov 2018)

P.S. As it is mandatory your submitted route defines the minimum distance.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Nov 2018)

Newbie caveat: Only about 8 or 9 submissions, but I did ask TH (organiser South West) to hold my hand for the first couple of routes. My last ride had ‘spurs’, but even though I missed these out on my ride and a couple of weird sections where my route took me off a main road up a slip road and back onto the main road, my distance was still compliant. My controls were fine, so my ride was approved with no issue. I don’t think AUK are going to take issue with marginal deviances. 

I had major road works in Plymouth and Bristol which took me WAY off my original mandatory route, but you add this to the ‘comments’ section when you fill in the Tracklog. Neither were an issue. 

Don’t forget the 50% rule if you are doing championship points.


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## Ajax Bay (26 Nov 2018)

It's horses for courses, but having done a few DIYs this year, I prefer nominating specific controls (villages/towns) rather than construct a 'mandatory' route (I use RwGPS to plan) and then have to follow it slavishly. I want the freedom to take a road/track that I have not planned to take within the framework of visiting a (very) few specific places.
I collect a gpx on my Garmin, send it to Tony Hull (SW and Wales DIY supremo) and when he looks at that he can see timings and that I went through the controls. (I collect a receipts or ATM slips at start, each control and finish as a back up.)
For example my ride from Exmouth to Penzance 10 days ago used Whiddon Down (on (old and new) A30), Tavistock and Indian Queens as controls. Because I like to include some (not so) 'rough stuff' I enjoyed the Exe Estuary path, the 'old' A30, the Granite Way (above Okehampton to Lydford), NCN3 past Bodmin Parkway and Lanhydrock, a bit of @Ian H 's KSW600 back road route into Truro and options from Redruth to Penzance remain open for me to decide 'on the ride' (either via Hayle or Goldsithney (Four Lanes, Praze-an-Beeble or Realwa)). During the planning process I can check that the shortest road route is more than 200k so I do not rely on Tony to check this before the ride.


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## Fab Foodie (26 Nov 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> The idiot being me.
> 
> I have a few decent gaps in my calendar where there aren’t any suitable rides that I can enter. So I thought the time has come for me to put together some of my own DIYs. *(NB Routes and rides would be of the GPS variety)* The only trouble is I can’t get my head around some of the definitions on the AUK website and the new DIY section on the website makes littles sense in my tiny brain.
> 
> ...


You could just go for a bike-ride and save yourself the headache and paperwork....


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Nov 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> You could just go for a bike-ride and save yourself the headache and paperwork....



I am sorry but the minister of silly bike rides says no.


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## Aravis (26 Nov 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> You could just go for a bike-ride and save yourself the headache and paperwork....


I've spent my entire cycling life doing just that, and seeing little need to jump through someone else's hoops.

But in recent weeks some thoughts have been coalescing in my mind. There is one key conclusion, and with little modification to what I'm doing already, plus a bit of cunning, I'm thinking it could be achieveable.

*I want to be a Super-Randonneur!*


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## Ian H (26 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Burn the witch.
> 
> You will be cast into the deepest recesses of Audax Hell, where demons will brand you repeatedly with hot irons bearing abbreviations like ECE, LEL, DIY, BR, BRM, ACP, AUK, SO@X, SR, RRTY, L@RAB, AAA, PBP and so on, all the while you will be flogged with lashes made of obscure terms like "allure libre" by demons each representing the nine* different kinds of control.
> 
> * I made that up.



Not at all. Most of the AUK greats have 'just gone for bike rides'. Not many have been avid points chasers.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Nov 2018)

Aravis said:


> I've spent my entire cycling life doing just that, and seeing little need to jump through someone else's hoops.
> 
> But in recent weeks some thoughts have been coalescing in my mind. There is one key conclusion, and with little modification to what I'm doing already, plus a bit of cunning, I'm thinking it could be achieveable.
> 
> *I want to be a Super-Randonneur!*



Now look what you’ve done! I want to as well now. I have earmarked a 400 and a 600 I fancy trying next year. The 300 is near your neck of the woods might be the same one I did this summer as my first 300. It’s in March if it goes to schedule unlike last year. 

*Question for the experienced riders: I couldn’t find the answer on the AUK site, but can these distances for the SR award be DIYs? I could probably manage a 300 and 400 as DIYs, but I would like to do a 600 as a calendar event.


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## Ian H (26 Nov 2018)

AUK SR can be any BR rides, perm or otherwise. ACP SR requires BRM, as does PBP qualification.


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## Aravis (27 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> And I thought you were normal ...


So did I. It's your fault for being so damned inspiring. 



Heltor Chasca said:


> Now look what you’ve done! *I want to as well now.* I have earmarked a 400 and a 600 I fancy trying next year. The 300 is near your neck of the woods might be the same one I did this summer as my first 300. It’s in March if it goes to schedule unlike last year.


I'd kind of assumed this!

Have you looked at the new 600 that starts in the same place as the Rough Diamond 300?


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Nov 2018)

@Aravis Do you mean the Benjamin Allen’s Summer Tour? That looks spectacular, but I was thinking of another new GWR 600 of Will’s called The Steam Express from Bristol. Similar elevation. 

Shall we do both?  (Ladle fulls of ‘just kidding’ in that comment)


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Nov 2018)

Well if you are going for an SR next year you may as well consider PBP.


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## Aravis (27 Nov 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> @Aravis Do you mean the Benjamin Allen’s Summer Tour? That looks spectacular, but I was thinking of another new GWR 600 of Will’s called The Steam Express from Bristol. Similar elevation.
> 
> Shall we do both?  (Ladle fulls of ‘just kidding’ in that comment)


Absolutely zero chance of me doing either!

If I do get as far as a 600 I'm certain it will be something of my own invention. Hence my original interest in this thread, testing whether my reading of the ins and outs of DIY by GPS is accurate. So far it's looking OK.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Well if you are going for an SR next year you may as well consider PBP.



You speak in demon and angel voices at the same time. I knew this would happen. 

I have had this conversation with myself, a friend and now I’m typing it out live on a forum. Gulp.

Financiallly I wouldn’t be able to pull this one off quite yet. I’m just coming out the other side of some pretty big life changes and personal circumstances which affect my status on many levels. I would have a better and more enjoyable experience I think, if all this ‘clutter’ was shelved first and my plate was less full. Besides I would like a larger aerobic base to work from too. I’m pretty fit at the moment compared to a year ago, but I would like to build on that for a few years more.

See you in 2023.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Nov 2018)

Aravis said:


> Absolutely zero chance of me doing either!
> 
> If I do get as far as a 600 I'm certain it will be something of my own invention. Hence my original interest in this thread, testing whether my reading of the ins and outs of DIY by GPS is accurate. So far it's looking OK.



You are always welcome to build in a control at Chez HC if need be. An idea I got from watching Andy Curran’s YouTube videos was to have your own house as the sleep control on longer DIYs so you could eat, shower and sleep in the comfort of your own house. Very sensible. I’m going to do this for DIY 400s. But if I start a 600 I would like to do a calendar event still.


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## Aravis (27 Nov 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> You are always welcome to build in a control at Chez HC if need be. An idea I got from watching Andy Curran’s YouTube videos was to have your own house as the sleep control on longer DIYs so you could eat, shower and sleep in the comfort of your own house. Very sensible. I’m going to do this for DIY 400s. But if I start a 600 I would like to do a calendar event still.


I haven't seen the video but this is exactly my cunning plan. I'm sure it's been done a lot. Whether it's Audax as intended is another matter.

Thanks for the offer. As you know there are lots of good mile-eating roads up this way and you're welcome to use me as an outpost as well.

A 600 - effectively two 180-190 mile rides on consecutive days - is far beyond my experience and I can't imagine wanting to add to the stress by resting/sleeping/recharging in an environment I don't control. So I'm sure I'll be using a figure-of-eight for that one as well, or maybe even a four-leaf clover.


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## Ian H (27 Nov 2018)

Aravis said:


> A 600 - effectively two 180-190 mile rides on consecutive days - is far beyond my experience and I can't imagine wanting to add to the stress by resting/sleeping/recharging in an environment I don't control. So I'm sure I'll be using a figure-of-eight for that one as well, or maybe even a four-leaf clover.



Most folk find it better to ride 350 to 400k before stopping, leaving a relatively easy second day after a bit of sleep. That's certainly my usual modus operandi – I like to get a decent night's sleep (well... at least 4-5hrs). I have ridden a few straight through, perhaps with just a 20min bus-shelter snooze.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Nov 2018)

Did a DIY 600 where hotel was first encountered at 290km. Checked in, had dinner, then went out on a 60km loop back to hotel. Then slept till morning with a 260km second day.


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## Ivo (27 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Did a DIY 600 where hotel was first encountered at 290km. Checked in, had dinner, then went out on a 60km loop back to hotel. Then slept till morning with a 260km second day.



I once did a 1000 where this convenient option was available. Evening start, 400k loop to the hotel. Then a 100k loop, a loop of nearly 300k and a tad over 200k back to the start. Since it was very hot I decided to have a siesta after 400k, head out again for an early evening 100 followed by a short kip and then the 300. Worked quite ok.


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Now look what you’ve done! I want to as well now. I have earmarked a 400 and a 600 I fancy trying next year. The 300 is near your neck of the woods might be the same one I did this summer as my first 300. It’s in March if it goes to schedule unlike last year.
> 
> *Question for the experienced riders: I couldn’t find the answer on the AUK site, but can these distances for the SR award be DIYs? I could probably manage a 300 and 400 as DIYs, but I would like to do a 600 as a calendar event.



Do some BRM ones and you will have many to chat about PBP with.


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