# Upgrading to proper Road Shoes



## Jezston (15 Sep 2012)

Bit of an open question this!

I've been riding with crank bros pedals for a couple of years or so now since going clipless - for urban commuting they suit well as they offer the benefit of clipless but are dead easy to get in and out of.

Anyhoo, friends have been gradually trying to convince me to get proper road shoes for proper road riding, and that having mountain bike eggbeaters on my fancy alu/carbon Dolan is just not right.

But I have no idea where to begin. Lots of options, lots of prices.


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## Zakalwe (15 Sep 2012)

Speedplays are probably as close to your egg beaters as "proper" pedals will be. I wouldn't swap due to peer pressure alone however. Anyhoo, quite a few road shows have options for 2 and 3 hole cleats, so you can get a feel for the shoe itself with you existing pedals, then go on to different pedals if and when you decide to.


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## accountantpete (15 Sep 2012)

Save up and get some decent gear.

Personally I'd say Look Keo Carbons and S-Works Shoes - but that's £300 gone rather quickly.


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## Zakalwe (15 Sep 2012)

Might find the toeing in a bit of a faff at first with Look or SL style pedals. I like Look myself, got the cheapest SL pedals on the winter bike and they're no problem either. 30 quid I think they were.


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## Scilly Suffolk (15 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> ...for urban commuting they suit well as they offer the benefit of clipless but are dead easy to get in and out of...


Remind me why you are looking to change a set-up that is time-served and proven to work for you.


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## Scilly Suffolk (15 Sep 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> Speedplays are probably as close to your egg beaters as "proper" pedals will be...


Of all the different road systems, Speedplay must be the least appropriate "...for urban commuting...", not to mention the most expensive.

However, I do agree with you that there is no need to change for appearance's sake (see my comment above).


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## Zakalwe (15 Sep 2012)

Oh yeah? A double sided, high float, press down entry system is less appropriate than something like a Look Keo for commuting? I'd have to disagree in principle, though all the chuff that can get stuck in the cleat could be bothersome.


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## palinurus (15 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> Bit of an open question this!
> 
> I've been riding with crank bros pedals for a couple of years or so now since going clipless - for urban commuting they suit well as they offer the benefit of clipless but are dead easy to get in and out of.
> 
> ...


 
Personally I'm thinking of going SPD on my road bikes so I don't need so many pairs of cycling shoes! plus I live in the town centre so all my rides involve a bit of urban riding, for which I prefer SPDs, plus I sometimes use my nice bike for commuting. Proper road shoes, what's that about? Roadie bollocks, I'm a black socks, leather saddle on a carbon bike sort of rider.

But actually the only reason I replied to this thread Jezston is that, thanks to the Foodie, I now know where you got your avatar from.


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## HLaB (15 Sep 2012)

I use SPD's on my roadie and dont think they put me at a disadvantage to any of the folk I ride with but on a faster ride I wear lighter stiffer bg mtb sport shoes and use touring pedals (A520s) with a cage. I would change pedals you are happy with due to peer pressure and if you feel you are at a slight disadvantage performance wise try stiffer lighter mtb shoes.


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## tigger (15 Sep 2012)

I use SPDs and (whatever the Shimano road one is). For a mortal like me I'm not convinced the power transfer on the road pedals is that much more superior. If you like the ease of entry and double sidedness then why change? Where you may gain a performance advantage is on a quality pair of shoes with a good stiff sole?

Edit: I should really read the posts above! What HLaB said basically!


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## Jezston (15 Sep 2012)

I think there may be a little confusion here - to clarify, I'll be keeping the eggbeaters for the commuter as they suit it well, but I am thinking of getting road pedals and shoes for the weekend bike.

Friends have extolled the virtues of fancy roadie clipless (i.e. look keo, spd-sl etc) as they claim the reduced float, stiffer base and greater surface contact is better for more serious riding, and I can kind of see where that comes from. But is that perhaps nonsense?

Another reason is I'd like to have a go on the velodrome, and I'm not sure eggbeaters are allowed.

Currently thinking of going SPD-SL as Evans have a special offer on the 105 pedals - from looking at them, I cant tell much difference between them and Looks.

I'm also not prepared to drop £300 on all this! I have no plans to enter any races!


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## Scilly Suffolk (15 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> ...Another reason is I'd like to have a go on the velodrome...


In which case you'd be best off asking what is acceptable on the track: highly unlikely that what your pals tell you looks good on the road will pass muster on the boards.


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## smokeysmoo (15 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> Another reason is I'd like to have a go on the velodrome!


Don't about the velodrome you'll attend, but Manchester velodrome use Look Delta Red cleats like these,







I've just bought a pair for £9.49 off fleabay, as they will have paid for themselves versus shoe hire after the two sessions I already have booked, but, I then sheared a cleat retention thread in my shoes while fitting the buggers, so back to square one until I get some new shoes


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## tigger (15 Sep 2012)

I've got the 105 SPD SL. Very happy with them. They have a wider base than the entry level Shimano one, so yes if you are sold in on roads then I'd say they've done me well. But I wouldn't skimp on the shoe


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## Scilly Suffolk (15 Sep 2012)

^
£9.49 + new shoes + two sessions (or shoe hire for two sessions) = wtf


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## smokeysmoo (15 Sep 2012)

Scilly Suffolk said:


> ^
> £9.49 + new shoes + two sessions (or shoe hire for two sessions) = wtf


Yeah! Obviously wasn't planning on knackering my shoes.

They were my summer shoes, so I wasn't planning to wear them outside now until next year, but thought they'd be ideal for the track. Problem now is they're fit for nowt.

I'll have to ask Father Christmas to bring me some new shoes, unless Lake respond favourably to the email I've sent them, doubt it though.


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## Zakalwe (16 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> Friends have extolled the virtues of fancy roadie clipless (i.e. look keo, spd-sl etc) as they claim the reduced float, stiffer base and greater surface contact is better for more serious riding, and I can kind of see where that comes from. But is that perhaps nonsense?



Reduced float is a matter of preference - you'll get more float from a Speedplay than anything else and Wiggo just rode them to a tour victory, reduced float isn't for everyone. Stiffer base depends on your shoes. Surface contact is only an issue if you fern your current shoes are too narrow in the contact area. 

If you find a shoe set up that works for you, for gawds sakes stick to it


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## Nebulous (16 Sep 2012)

I have the 105 spd-sl pedals and specialized BG Elite shoes. Around £140 all-in. I really like the set-up and the pedals are still free turning after 20 months and about 7,000 miles. I use the yellow cleats and find they last longer than people say - close to a year. Like many people though I have nothing to compare it with and might find others just as good or better.


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## antonypo (16 Sep 2012)

can i ask a few basic questions. I have normal pedals and am ruining my trainers. Can you recommend a pair of velcro type touring shoes which will not slip on normal pedals for a reasonable price? Also I am size 9. Would this still be the case in touring shoes? Evans have a pair of shimano tourers but the web says not for normal pedals for some reason.


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## vickster (16 Sep 2012)

You'll need something with a grippy sole​​I have some Specialized Sonoma shoes with no cleats, bought to wear with normal pedals but they have smooth slippy soles so aren't great​​Try Milletts ir similar. Or something like these? http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-mt42-spd-shoes-brown-prod21266/. That said, they appear to have nocover over the cleat holes which might be poor off the bike​​Not entirely sure what touring shoes are​​With bike shoes, they can come up small, so you may want to order a 44​​Why not give SPDs a go? Can get pedals with cleats for around £20​


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## fossyant (16 Sep 2012)

Look Delta on my road bikes. Been using them years, add that to a five year old pair of Spesh Pro Carbon shoes. Both pedals were top end in their time, campag record carbon looks and a set of Look Carbo Pros.


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## jann71 (16 Sep 2012)

I had shimano spd sl and hated them. Have used Spds on other bikes for years.
As the road shoes were £90, I have now changed to look keo easy and love them.


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## antonypo (16 Sep 2012)

Sorry to be so naive but what are SPD'S Are they clips? I dont want to be tied to the pedals. I think its dangerous on traffic ridden roads. If you fall off you can hurt yourself if you dont get out of them in time.


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## palinurus (16 Sep 2012)

antonypo said:


> Sorry to be so naive but what are SPD'S Are they clips? I dont want to be tied to the pedals. I think its dangerous on traffic ridden roads. If you fall off you can hurt yourself if you dont get out of them in time.


 
"clipless" or clip-in pedals. Easier to get in and out of than the old toe clips. I use them on most of my bikes, some of which I fall off of fairly frequently (I dabble in cyclocross), mostly my feet find a way out without me having to think about it.


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## antonypo (16 Sep 2012)

ive seen a a pair of muddyfox http://www.sportsdirect.com/muddyfox-rbs-carbon-mens-cycling-shoes-144017 but they seem to have just screws sticking out of them. how do they fit spd peddles. Also they quote spd -sl. Are there different types of fit or is this spd? Ive tried them on in the shop and they fit great especially with the ratchet top. Secondly what are the best spd peddles to fit please. KEEN TO TRY NOW !!!


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## Tight Git (16 Sep 2012)

Those shoes won't fit spd as they are spd-sl which is a different fitment. The cleat (plastic bit) screws onto the sole using the holes. Spd have 2 holes and the sl 3 holes.


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## palinurus (16 Sep 2012)

antonypo said:


> ive seen a a pair of muddyfox http://www.sportsdirect.com/muddyfox-rbs-carbon-mens-cycling-shoes-144017 but they seem to have just screws sticking out of them. how do they fit spd peddles. Also they quote spd -sl. Are there different types of fit or is this spd? Ive tried them on in the shop and they fit great especially with the ratchet top. Secondly what are the best spd peddles to fit please. KEEN TO TRY NOW !!!


 
That type of shoe design is good for road riding where you don't need to walk much- good for a club rider or someone who races perhaps.

For most other types of cycling a shoe with a recessed cleat (examples being Shimano SPD or the Crank Bros type design) is often better since you can walk in them more easily- great for all sorts of riding, including touring, mountainbiking and going to Sainsbury's (although hardly necessary for the latter). These systems are also easier to use since you can clip in on either side of the pedal (or four sides in the case of Crank Bros.)

So you need to select the shoe /pedal system that suits your type of riding (and whether you need to walk in them too), there isn't really a best pedal- you choose one to match your requirements.

Right, the shoes generally have three screw threads in them (road style cleats like Look, Shimano SPD-SL etc.) or two (recessed cleat designs like SPD). The cleat is supplied with the pedal and is attached to the shoe, this being the interface between the shoe and pedal.

Anyway- there's a little research to do, search the forums a bit and try to work out what will suit you. You've gone pretty quickly from "looks dangerous" to "I want them now"!


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## palinurus (16 Sep 2012)

Look here:

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/clipless-pedals-faq.74358/


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## Deleted member 20519 (16 Sep 2012)

accountantpete said:


> Save up and get some decent gear.
> 
> Personally I'd say Look Keo Carbons and S-Works Shoes - but that's £300 gone rather quickly.


 
That's the price of my bike!


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## Keith Smith (16 Sep 2012)

I bought the Shimano 105 SPD SL pedals and a modest pair of Specialized road shoes on Saturday, and have cycled over 50 miles in them this weekend. My verdict is simply OMG! How on earth did I ever manage before?! They have completely transformed the bike. The increase in power from simply being able to engage the opposing leg muscles is staggering! It is particularly noticeable when accelerating from a standstill or from a slow rolling speed, and powering up hills. I am completely, unequivocally, 100% converted!


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## Lee_M (16 Sep 2012)

To answer the OP I have SPDs on my commuter and SPD SLs on my roadbike, mainly because I prefer to be able to walk after my commute and the SLs make that a bit harder without destroying my cleats

Both sets work fine, but if I was to choose a preference it would be the SLs, but can't say explicitly why, other than it 'feels' more secure


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## antonypo (17 Sep 2012)

o.k. thanks to all again - and the link to clipless pedals great. Last night while on nights I took the plunge and ordered a pair of specialized bg sport shoe and the shimano m520 spd pedals. Will let you know when i fall off - er i mean how i get on.


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## PaulSecteur (17 Sep 2012)

I have spd-sl and I like them, when the miles start going up they do feel more planted and keep you square-er on the pedels.

However, knowing what I know now I would have stuck with a 2 bolt sportive style shoe, like the shimano RT81 or newer RT82. Yo get almost road shoe weight and looks, but with the convienience of a recessed cleat.


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## Rob3rt (17 Sep 2012)

Buy the shoes that fit most comfortably! Seriously.............

As for pedals, I use Look, reason: When I bought my 1st bike they said what pedals do you want........ I looked around and said, I have heard of Look Keo so I will have those!

TBH, horses for courses, pay your money, ride your bike.


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## antonypo (20 Sep 2012)

Well as promised - came back to tell you how i got on with the spd 520's and specialized shoes.*DISAPPOINTED.*I wasn't expecting to change the world but expected a little better performance than before. As i take into account weather conditions, wind speed etc on each of my runs i was expecting an improvement of my usual 18 mph average. I ended up 17 mph average on my 24.5 mls run and boy did my legs feel tired. Can't see where the extra power from the stiff soles comes from either.Made no difference on the flat or going up hill.
Something more positive though. I soon got used to clipping in and out of the peddles and didn't fall off! I did lose a few seconds at lights trying to get the clips back in though. It was my 1st run with them this morning but didn't expect a worse performance.
*ANY THOUGHTS?*


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## Zakalwe (20 Sep 2012)

I think you were misled into thinking that you'd magic some extra watts of power because of a pedal. Too many variables on the ride to compare also, you mention traffic lights and these will have more impact on average speed than any apparel.


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## antonypo (20 Sep 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> I think you were misled into thinking that you'd magic some extra watts of power because of a pedal. Too many variables on the ride to compare also, you mention traffic lights and these will have more impact on average speed than any apparel.


Know what your saying but didn't expect to be slower as I said - what with all the hype about stiff soles etc. Also the traffic lights are there on every run of course and my cateye takes the stops into account.


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## Zakalwe (20 Sep 2012)

It takes stops stops in movement account but not coasting to a stop and slow starts off the mark, light phasing etc. my commute can vary anywhere between 19 and 24 kph. I don't know about hype or actual gains from the stiff soled shoes I wear but since I went clipless I really can't go back to without. I need my feet attached to the bike for the way it feels rather than for any particular "gain".


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## Zakalwe (20 Sep 2012)

Also, because the timer stops, the average speed can be misleading - if I brake at the last minute for every light and hammer off the mark my average will be much higher than if I gently coast to each stop. My overall journey will take the same time but the average speed for the time I was moving will drop substantially - ill just spend less time standing still.


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## antonypo (21 Sep 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> Also, because the timer stops, the average speed can be misleading - if I brake at the last minute for every light and hammer off the mark my average will be much higher than if I gently coast to each stop. My overall journey will take the same time but the average speed for the time I was moving will drop substantially - ill just spend less time standing still.


Not correct i feel. I put the time in excel with formula for distance/ time* 60 as a measure of increased fitness after each ride
. The average matches my cateye. Well it will wont it as speed = distance / time so it must take longer for the journey if the average is less - as mine did today. All its calculating really is the mph of that particular journey.


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## Zakalwe (21 Sep 2012)

You cycle 1k at 30kph with a 2 minute stop in the middle. You brake late and hard, accelerate hard, your average speed is not far off 30kph for the time spent moving. Journey time 4 minutes.

You cycle the same 1k at 15kph, you arrive at the stop light just as it turns green, keep at a steady 15kph to the end. Average speed 15kph. Journey time 4 minutes.


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## antonypo (21 Sep 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> You cycle 1k at 30kph with a 2 minute stop in the middle. You brake late and hard, accelerate hard, your average speed is not far off 30kph for the time spent moving. Journey time 4 minutes.
> 
> You cycle the same 1k at 15kph, you arrive at the stop light just as it turns green, keep at a steady 15kph to the end. Average speed 15kph. Journey time 4 minutes.


Sorry buy I think your'e missing the point that the 2 stopped minutes would not be recorded on the cateye as you are stopped. Total cycle time ON THE CATEYE would be 2 minutes not 4 - sorry !
What you are correct about is whether you slow down or not at lights - yes that does make a difference as the cateye still records that you're moving so reduces the overall average and still keeps ticking along recording the time till you stop completely.
That's why I'm a bit infatuated about doing the same journey and the average speed wavers from 17.8 to 18.3 mph(given the 6 mph wind conditions) but it has never been as low as 16.9 like yesterday. Anyway as I said earlier I expected a SMALL improvement with the shoes etc not the other way round - that's my point. Secondly I wonder if discipline has something to do with it as you may be using slightly different muscles or even at a slightly different angle as you are made to keep your feet straight. Maybe that's why my legs felt so abnormally tired?
I may find an improvement after a few weeks and that will be down to the clips etc as my fitness has plateaued over the last month or so?


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## Zakalwe (21 Sep 2012)

I was merely pointing out the differences in how cateye data can be read, slowing down affecting times etc. I think you need to allow yourself a few more rides to get properly used to the new set up, you do need to use your body differently than you did before which is why you may be more tired in certain places. Also try not to use your computer to measure apparent failures, use it as a motivator to spur you on to a faster ride next time ;-)


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## antonypo (21 Sep 2012)

Zakalwe said:


> I was merely pointing out the differences in how cateye data can be read, slowing down affecting times etc. I think you need to allow yourself a few more rides to get properly used to the new set up, you do need to use your body differently than you did before which is why you may be more tired in certain places. Also try not to use your computer to measure apparent failures, use it as a motivator to spur you on to a faster ride next time ;-)


Will do and thanks for the chat. it's been interesting. i was contemplating going out today which isnt normal for me to go out 2 days on te bounce but its hammering it down again. I'm not looking forward to Winter. Dreading the conditions and the gain in pounds that comes from inactivity if its freezing. How bad does it need to be to stop you? rain as in light rain doesn't bother me but pouring down does. Ice - especially on clips will be very dangerous I think !


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## Zakalwe (21 Sep 2012)

Any time, everyone's got ideas and opinions so its good to share and see what works for you.

I'd say if you're training for an event or race, get out there whatever the weather - the weather or race day isn't guaranteed. That post ride coffee is all the sweeter too.


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## Jezston (22 Sep 2012)

So today I was out shopping for proper road pedals and shoes. Interestingly, I was wondering if eggbeaters are ok for the track - they do say they need to be really securely attached.

Today I found out exactly why eggbeaters are NOT secure enough for the track:


View: http://youtu.be/Ag14dgvoluA


With my front wheel buckled and handlebars bent, along with being a bit messed up physically - looks like I wont be hitting Herne Hill before the season ends.


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## ianrauk (23 Sep 2012)

ouch


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## Rob3rt (23 Sep 2012)

:S What actually happened! Heal up soon!


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## 2Loose (23 Sep 2012)

WTF Jezton? GWS and poor bike :-(


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## 400bhp (23 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> I think there may be a little confusion here - to clarify, I'll be keeping the eggbeaters for the commuter as they suit it well, but I am thinking of getting road pedals and shoes for the weekend bike.
> 
> Friends have extolled the virtues of fancy roadie clipless (i.e. look keo, spd-sl etc) as they claim the reduced float, stiffer base and greater surface contact is better for more serious riding, and I can kind of see where that comes from. *But is that perhaps nonsense?*
> 
> ...


 
Unless they are pros/semi pros/cat racers then yes this is nonesense.

Do they read Cycling Plus by any chance?


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## Drago (23 Sep 2012)

Buy your SPD shoes carefully and you can have a sole every bit as stiff as any road shoe, right up to rigid oif you choose.

Apart from a tiny amount of weight saved, and in not sure it's much at all over a top flight SPD pedal, there's no real advantage. It's just different is all.


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## dellzeqq (23 Sep 2012)

400bhp said:


> Unless they are pros/semi pros/cat racers then yes this is nonesense.
> 
> Do they read Cycling Plus by any chance?


I disagree, (albeit reluctantly, because the price of these things is eye-watering). I do think the broader platform offered by SPD-SLs (and, previously, SPD-Rs) does help ordinary duffers like me. One just feels that little bit more secure, and the absence of rotation and tilt is that little bit less wearing on the legs. Indeed, the irony is that (like carbon forks) it might make more of a difference to duffers than it does to more accomplished cyclists.


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## StuAff (23 Sep 2012)

It's that phrase 'marginal gains' again, isn't it? I'm not knocking road shoes and pedal systems because I've never tried them, but for me the gain in switching from SPD to a road system on some of my bikes would be be minimal- I think the greatest benefit (or not, if it's not to one's taste) is to move to a clipless system, regardless of type. I know plenty of people who ride SPDs (or another two-bolt system) for the commute and a road system for the weekend. And there might be other advantages for individuals. For example, a friend of mine (a very strong rider, at least over short distances...much faster than me, though that's not saying much) found that if she rode her custom-built Viner Maxima, its carbon layup and geometry both made to suit her needs, in SPDs, the stiffness of the frame put her knees and feet under more stress than on her Tifosi CK7. She rides Speedplays on the Maxima, usually, the extra float and wider platform helps her considerably.


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## antonypo (23 Sep 2012)

Jezston said:


> So today I was out shopping for proper road pedals and shoes. Interestingly, I was wondering if eggbeaters are ok for the track - they do say they need to be really securely attached.
> 
> Today I found out exactly why eggbeaters are NOT secure enough for the track:
> 
> ...



Well today I fell off my bike and its only my 3rd outing with the SPD system. Thought the car in front of me was going to go at the junction but NO SHE DIDNT..... No injuries except pride as my neighbour was in the car behind and got out of his car and said "the bike should be underneath you not on top " I knew I was doing something wrong!!


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## Jezston (4 Oct 2012)

Well I need a road shoe system to take the (now repaired) bike on the track, so the question is:

Look or Shimano?


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