# Sore thigh muscles - am I overdoing things?



## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

Hello all,

I have been cycling (on and off) for about 25 years. Family responsibilities are partly the reason for the on-offness but overall (especially recent years), I have been reasonably good, without too many long gaps. That said, in previous years, I have sometimes stopped for months at a time.

I do find that my thigh muscles tend to really ache when I am riding, and this has been the case for a long time but I have noticed it even more this year after buying a new bike and really making an effort to do three days a week to work (around 200km in all). More often than not, commutes aren't spaced evenly over the week (i.e. Mon, Wed, Fri), and I will often find myself doing 3 consecutive days (Wed, Thu, Fri this week).

Its odd - I am trying to work within higher heart rate zones but my legs are hurting so much that I find I cant push more to get into the zone that I want to be in. My average cadence on yesterday's commute home was 85, so I think I'm about right there. I have tried varying the cadence but there is no relief.

So, it's Saturday today, and after the three consecutive commutes, my thighs are very sore. It's quite painful to squat down, as I was this morning when I turned on the bathroom scales for my 2-monthlyish weigh-in (just out of curiosity).

So, I am 47 - is this age-related, am I pushing myself too hard, do I need to take some kind of protein supplement, any other advice you guys could offer? I love my cycling, in fact I _need_ my cycling - but I would really like to return it to a largely painless experience.

I would value your opinions.

Thanks


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

1. Check your saddle height and riding position, new bike...

2. And start stretching your leg muscles after every ride, all of them  You only need one muscle group to be tight or out of kilter to cause havoc elsewhere in my experience (for me, super tight calves)

Can't see what a protein supplement would do? You might find a proper monthly sports massage beneficial. See what the masseur advises, a physiotherapist assessment might be worthwhile if nothing else works.

What happens on the weeks when you cycle less.


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

Thank you. I think that the saddle is fine as it was set up at the LBS when I bought the bike. Maybe I will try the stretching thing as that's something I never, ever do.

Much appreciated.


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Thank you. I think that the saddle is fine as it was set up at the LBS when I bought the bike. Maybe I will try the stretching thing as that's something I never, ever do.
> 
> Much appreciated.


I wouldn't assume the shop got the set up right, maybe if you had a full fit. Plenty of YouTube vids to check


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## Tin Pot (6 Aug 2016)

I'd also recommend a pro fit.

Static stretching is a bit of a myth, and it's true that it could be non-cycling related. Since getting fit myself, I only hurt on the bike if I've been gardening or diying or sleeping badly etc.


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## Tenacious Sloth (6 Aug 2016)

I find that the saddle being even a couple of mm too low can cause the pain you are describing.

Whenever I change the saddle (and coincidentally I've fitted a new Selle Anatomica to my road bike today) I get the saddle height roughly correct and then tweak it up by a mm or two before each ride until I feel a slight soreness in my hamstrings indicating that the saddle is too high, and then drop it down to the previous non-sore position.

Drinking a high-protein drink within 20 minutes of the end of a ride is supposed to aid recovery of muscle damage.

I'm 54 and average around 130 miles a week - and have never done any stretching pre or post ride. 

Having said that, we're all different.

Graham


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> I wouldn't assume the shop got the set up right, maybe if you had a full fit. Plenty of YouTube vids to check


Perhaps. They adjusted saddle, flipped the stem up, cleat position, did the plum-bob thing from the knee through the pedal axle - is that a full fit? Also, this is the same LBS that cured a knee problem that I had on my old bike by doing a fit for me, it ended up that the saddle was too low. I will look at YouTube, thanks.


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

Get a fit from a cycling Physio not just a retul fitter unless a Physio


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Perhaps. They adjusted saddle, flipped the stem up, cleat position, did the plum-bob thing from the knee through the pedal axle - is that a full fit? Also, this is the same LBS that cured a knee problem that I had on my old bike by doing a fit for me, it ended up that the saddle was too low. I will look at YouTube, thanks.


Full fit would take 1-2 hours 

Try putting the saddle up in v small increments. Ride, assess, repeat


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> I'd also recommend a pro fit.
> 
> Static stretching is a bit of a myth, and it's true that it could be non-cycling related. Since getting fit myself, I only hurt on the bike if I've been gardening or diying or sleeping badly etc.


Cycling is really the only exercise that I do, so not sure that its related to anything else.


> ...I only hurt on the bike if I've been gardening or *diying*...


First read that as dying!


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

So did I!!

Do you have a sedentary job? Or indeed a v physical one? Each could be as bad for muscle length and tightness


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## Tin Pot (6 Aug 2016)

I'm changing the English language


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> I find that the saddle being even a couple of mm too low can cause the pain you are describing.
> 
> Whenever I change the saddle (and coincidentally I've fitted a new Selle Anatomica to my road bike today) I get the saddle height roughly correct and then tweak it up by a mm or two before each ride until I feel a slight soreness in my hamstrings indicating that the saddle is too high, and then drop it down to the previous non-sore position.
> 
> ...





vickster said:


> Full fit would take 1-2 hours
> 
> Try putting the saddle up in v small increments. Ride, assess, repeat


Good advice and thank you for that. I will take a look at increasing the saddle height as you both say. Great to see that @Tenacious Sloth managing 130 miles a week at 54 - hope for me yet 



vickster said:


> Get a fit from a cycling Physio not just a retul fitter unless a Physio


If I go for a fit - I will do that. How much should I expect to pay?



vickster said:


> So did I!!
> 
> Do you have a sedentary job? Or indeed a v physical one? Each could be as bad for muscle length and tightness


I'm a Mechanical Engineer, so It's a bit in between, but more sedentary these days as so much is done on the PC nowadays.


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

Cost varies but likely £100-150, more in central London. I think my cycling Physio charges £90 or £100 for an hour but that was after a number of Physio sessions. Not sure if she does as a one off


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## Roadrider48 (6 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Cost varies but likely £100-150, more in central London. I think my cycling Physio charges £90 or £100 for an hour but that was after a number of Physio sessions. Not sure if she does as a one off


Serious question @vickster 
Did the specific cycling physio stuff really make a massive difference to your cycling?
Just interested.


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## Shut Up Legs (6 Aug 2016)

I had continually sore thigh muscles from cycling a few years ago, and it turned out I had iron (and perhaps other vitamin) deficiencies. Once I rectified those, the soreness all but vanished.


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## S-Express (6 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> I will take a look at increasing the saddle height as you both say.



They are both assuming your saddle is too low, without any obvious evidence. It's equally likely that it might be too high.


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

S-Express said:


> They are both assuming your saddle is too low, without any obvious evidence. It's equally likely that it might be too high.


Yes, but a fair assumption I think as otherwise my hamstrings would be hurting. The saddle is in the right ballpark I think as I have done the heel on pedal at bottom dead centre thingy.


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Serious question @vickster
> Did the specific cycling physio stuff really make a massive difference to your cycling?
> Just interested.


Nope because I have long standing injuries but I know the bike set up isn't making things worse. I saw her first after surgery and wanted to be reassured that the bike fit was ok


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## steve50 (6 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Yes, but a fair assumption I think as otherwise my hamstrings would be hurting. The saddle is in the right ballpark I think as I have done the heel on pedal at bottom dead centre thingy.


We are all different, different height, weight , build etc so we will all differ when it comes to bike fit. You could shell out for a professional fit and still find you have issues, as @Shut Up Legs said , he had health issues related to the soreness so it is not always bike fit that is the cause. Try the saddle adjustments up, down back and forward to see if it helps, if you are still having a lot of pain it might be related to your general health, lactic acid build up in the legs could be causing the pain you are experiencing, http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/every-cyclist-s-enemy-exploring-lactic-acid-880046


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## vickster (6 Aug 2016)

Another question, you're not taking statins for high cholesterol are you? Muscle pain a common side effect


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

steve50 said:


> We are all different, different height, weight , build etc so we will all differ when it comes to bike fit. You could shell out for a professional fit and still find you have issues, as @Shut Up Legs said , he had health issues related to the soreness so it is not always bike fit that is the cause. Try the saddle adjustments up, down back and forward to see if it helps, if you are still having a lot of pain it might be related to your general health, lactic acid build up in the legs could be causing the pain you are experiencing, http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/every-cyclist-s-enemy-exploring-lactic-acid-880046


Many thanks, yes, that seems the logical approach. I think I will do DIY saddle adjustments, then pro bike fit as the first two options.


vickster said:


> Another question, you're not taking statins for high cholesterol are you? Muscle pain a common side effect


No, not an any sort of medication thank you.


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## Sharky (6 Aug 2016)

Well it's not an age thingy. I can recall lots of times in the past when I've hardly been able to walk downstairs after a long ride and often takes several days to recover. Try and change your riding pattern and have one day at high intensity, then the next couple at low intensity until your legs have fully recovered.

Hope you find the remedy.


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## ayceejay (6 Aug 2016)

Just to be clear, the pain occurs when you are riding? Have a look at the anatomical diagram and say which muscle or muscles hurt. Does this happen on every ride? Does it happen at any other time? Did it happen with the old bike? Does it come on immediately or at what point in the ride?


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## Roadrider48 (6 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Nope because I have long standing injuries but I know the bike set up isn't making things worse. I saw her first after surgery and wanted to be reassured that the bike fit was ok


I understand, thanks for that.


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## jefmcg (6 Aug 2016)

I think we are over thinking this. You are cycling 70 km 3days in a row? That's 2 to 3 hours exercise each day, pushing yourself with no recovery time. You are over training.

Ask any body builder : you build muscle on the rest days. Rest is as important as work to get stronger.

If you can't spread out your commutes, then take off the hrm every second day, or just stick to lower heart rates to recover and build muscle.

Make sure you have good protein in your diet, but after exercise like this, you need to replenish glycogen, so look to carbs.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/537246-the-best-time-to-replenish-glycogen-exercise/


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## mjr (6 Aug 2016)

High protein snack after riding isn't a bad idea anyway (and food rather than junk powders IMO) but I've not heard of it curing sore feelings so I'd be suspecting the bike fit too.


vickster said:


> Another question, you're not taking statins for high cholesterol are you? Muscle pain a common side effect


That's usually an entirely worse sort of hell than mere soreness


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I had continually sore thigh muscles from cycling a few years ago, and it turned out I had iron (and perhaps other vitamin) deficiencies. Once I rectified those, the soreness all but vanished.


Sorry, just seen this and it's worth considering - thanks.



Sharky said:


> Well it's not an age thingy. I can recall lots of times in the past when I've hardly been able to walk downstairs after a long ride and often takes several days to recover. Try and change your riding pattern and have one day at high intensity, then the next couple at low intensity until your legs have fully recovered.
> 
> Hope you find the remedy.


Thank you and I will go with that.



ayceejay said:


> View attachment 138092
> Just to be clear, the pain occurs when you are riding? Have a look at the anatomical diagram and say which muscle or muscles hurt. Does this happen on every ride? Does it happen at any other time? Did it happen with the old bike? Does it come on immediately or at what point in the ride?


Thank you. It's the Rectus Femoris and it happens on every ride, unless I have had perhaps a week or two off (clue there, I suppose). Didn't happen with the last bike but then I wasn't putting in as much mileage. Comes on almost immediately.



jefmcg said:


> I think we are over thinking this. You are cycling 70 km 3days in a row? That's 2 to 3 hours exercise each day, pushing yourself with no recovery time. You are over training.
> 
> Ask any body builder : you build muscle on the rest days. Rest is as important as work to get stronger.
> 
> ...


I like it, I think you're right, so I will now do: Rest (inc easy rides) & diet > saddle adjustments > pro bike fit (stopping when one works). Many thanks for your advice.



mjray said:


> High protein snack after riding isn't a bad idea anyway (and food rather than junk powders IMO) but I've not heard of it curing sore feelings so I'd be suspecting the bike fit too.


Yes, can't hurt, eh?


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## r04DiE (6 Aug 2016)

... and what do you all think of this for dietary advice for the commuting cyclist? Something I bookmarked a long while ago.


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## mjr (7 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> ... and what do you all think of this for dietary advice for the commuting cyclist? Something I bookmarked a long while ago.


Awful. Riding before breakfast is hell. I do it every few months because I've no choice and I just feel drained for the rest of the day.

Gels and "recovery drink"s are junk food. Much of the rest of the advice is OK but nothing special and stuff that most people would do anyway, surely?


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## r04DiE (7 Aug 2016)

mjray said:


> Awful. Riding before breakfast is hell. I do it every few months because I've no choice and I just feel drained for the rest of the day.


Never done it myself, I usually just rush something down before heading out the door. Don't think I'll be trying it though!



> Gels and "recovery drink"s are junk food. Much of the rest of the advice is OK but nothing special and stuff that most people would do anyway, surely?


Most of the time, I have no idea what I should be eating. I've never looked into it, but maybe I should start.


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## vickster (7 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Never done it myself, I usually just rush something down before heading out the door. Don't think I'll be trying it though!
> 
> Most of the time, I have no idea what I should be eating. I've never looked into it, but maybe I should start.


A decent varied diet


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## Levo-Lon (7 Aug 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I had continually sore thigh muscles from cycling a few years ago, and it turned out I had iron (and perhaps other vitamin) deficiencies. Once I rectified those, the soreness all but vanished.



worth checking... @r04DiE
i have B12 injections every 8 weeks.. used to be 12 week jabs

i used to have lots of muscle ache when it was low..
get a blood test..your prime age for things to start breaking ,dropping off etc


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## r04DiE (7 Aug 2016)

meta lon said:


> ...your prime age for things to start breaking ,dropping off etc


Gee, thanks. No, really, thanks


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## Levo-Lon (7 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Gee, thanks. No, really, thanks



Your welcome


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## ayceejay (7 Aug 2016)

The thing with questions like this is that the are so many variables in the answer which is why I think they all should be taken with a pinch of salt although the more that is known of the symptoms the better.
From the answers you gave to my questions here are some things you should look at because I think you may be pushing too high a gear before warming up - ride for five/ten minutes in a low gear without pushing too hard and stretch/foam roll at the end of your ride. Have a look at your pedal stroke as newcomers to clipless pedals often have a problem in that muscle. See to your saddle height and bring it up slightly. Try to spread your rides out more evenly or go for a recovery ride or two in the 4 days you are not working. Pay attention to your diet and take something with you for the ride - flapjack maybe (not too much sugar)


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## Kajjal (7 Aug 2016)

If your old bike was fine and it only happens on your new bike, unless you have dramatically changed your rides distance , frequency or intensity it is the bike setup. I had this a little when I changed bike and had the saddle too high causing hip and shoulder pain as I was over stretching and too tense.


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## r04DiE (9 Aug 2016)

ayceejay said:


> The thing with questions like this is that the are so many variables in the answer which is why I think they all should be taken with a pinch of salt although the more that is known of the symptoms the better.
> From the answers you gave to my questions here are some things you should look at because I think you may be pushing too high a gear before warming up - ride for five/ten minutes in a low gear without pushing too hard and stretch/foam roll at the end of your ride. Have a look at your pedal stroke as newcomers to clipless pedals often have a problem in that muscle. See to your saddle height and bring it up slightly. Try to spread your rides out more evenly or go for a recovery ride or two in the 4 days you are not working. Pay attention to your diet and take something with you for the ride - flapjack maybe (not too much sugar)


Many thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts. I think the main things that I will concentrate on are warming up, stretching, breaks/recovery and diet. All thanks to you and others on this thread. If those things don't help then I will be looking at setup.

Not easy for me to do recovery rides as I work 5 days a week but I can use the motorcycle for two days. Been using clipless for many years now so I don't think that's an issue.

Thanks again


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## r04DiE (13 Aug 2016)

OK, well just to update all of you good people. I took a week off the bike and could only manage 1 ride this week due to the kids being off on holiday. The ride was much better after the rest, legs felt good and easy to get my heart rate into the 150's. Before it was sitting at about 130-140 and things got really painful if I tried to push for a higher rate.

So, after reading your advice, which has reinforced my belief that I was overdoing things, I will concentrate on diet and breaks. Now, can any of you guys recommend a good book or site that I could use to adjust my diet. I've got a busy home life, little time to cook or prepare stuff and all my miles are done commuting. I don't get the time to go out on the bike for pleasure, well, hardly ever.

What I really need is "The 200-km-a-week commuter's guide to breakfast, snacks, lunch and dinner".

Basically, at the moment, I have two white slices of buttered toast and a cup of tea before leaving for work.
Lunch is usually soup and an apple (chicken & sweetcorn with a bread roll on cycling days)
Vegetable soup and an apple (on motorbike days)
Dinner could be anything, might be spaghetti bolognese, shepherd's pie, chicken curry, sometimes we have fish.

Any advice, as usual, will be greatly appreciated.


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## vickster (13 Aug 2016)

Get a low GI cookbook perhaps

Porridge for breakfast, ditch white toast

Add more veg and/or salad at meals


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## ayceejay (13 Aug 2016)

You will not get any disagreement on vicksters views over the breakfast that is totally inadequate so start there.
Apart from that there doesn't seem to be enough carbs in your diet until you get to dinner time so there is not much balance.
A basic understanding of sports nutrition would help and perhaps you could then join the dots yourself. Just google 'sports nutrition' and see what you find. I suggest you start with porridge or muesli for breakfast and maybe an egg and then have a snack of fruit and nuts when you get to work.
This break down of your diet may explain your initial problem.


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## jefmcg (13 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> ... and what do you all think of this for dietary advice for the commuting cyclist? Something I bookmarked a long while ago.


I think this is pretty good advice. Sure, if you can't tolerate cycling on an empty stomach, then have something before you leave home, but try it first. It works for me. 

The rest of the advice is good. I particularly commend the idea of making extra for dinner and having the leftovers the next day (or later) for lunch. 

If you have worked hard, you will have depleted your muscle glycogen. That's the carbs your muscles store to power work. There is a window after exercise when you can replace it more easily; so get some carbs in straight away. https://www.google.ie/search?q=repl...s-android-zte&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


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## ayceejay (13 Aug 2016)

I missed that earlier for some reason.
My opinion is that it is a bit severe for the purposes of answering this question, I respect Ed Clancy but this is a different animal entirely.
Emptying the body of its energy source and then replenishing it is not a healthy solution and neither is running on empty to burn fat if there is no time for a nutritious breakfast a blender would be useful. That article contains a lot of good advice for a serious athlete but I don't think our OP is claiming that status.


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## Slick (4 Sep 2016)

Hi, I'm new to this particular forum but I just wanted to add my tuppence to say there is loads of good, no great advice and links in this thread. I had a similar issue which I was able to get on top off but there was still lots I could be doing. 

Thanks


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## cyberknight (4 Sep 2016)

Interesting , by the end of the week my thighs are not sore but can be tender.


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