# Aero bars on club rides



## cyberknight (16 Aug 2018)

Raised an issue last night to the club Secretary.Its a newly formed club and riders have been turning up and riding on tri bars in a group ride .i personally feel they are not suited for group rides and raised it to him .One has already flounced after it was announced they were not supposed to use them in a group. Feel a bit of a shoot for raising it but i dont want someone causing a crash


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## smutchin (16 Aug 2018)

You did the right thing. Absolutely 100% no question about that.

If the club loses these idiots as members, so what? You're probably better off without them.


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## DCLane (16 Aug 2018)

I'm uncomfortable with them on group rides. My club doesn't allow it on safety grounds.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

Depends on the group. They're not suitable for tight formation riding IMO because most riders can't get to the brakes fast enough but they can be OK in relaxed social groups with good stopping distances between riders. In relaxed groups, riders with regular bars who try to overtake on the left silently are far more hazardous and you can't spot them before the start.


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## ianrauk (16 Aug 2018)

If someone flounces from the club over such a simple safety issue. Then the club is best off without that person


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## smutchin (16 Aug 2018)

mjr said:


> they can be OK in relaxed social groups with good stopping distances between riders.



If you're riding far enough apart for the use of aerobars to be safe, that's arguably not a group ride.


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## Tommy2 (16 Aug 2018)

IMO Even if the group ride is specifically out to practice team TTing or triathlon draft legal racing, group riding on tri bars it’s still very sketchy in public roads.


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## Nibor (16 Aug 2018)

I don't like aero bars on any ride they tend to melt in my pocket.


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## Dan B (16 Aug 2018)

Nibor said:


> I don't like aero bars on any ride they tend to melt in my pocket.


And they're Nestlé


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

smutchin said:


> If you're riding far enough apart for the use of aerobars to be safe, that's arguably not a group ride.


It's a group ride but not a chain gang.

If you want to get into arguably, then most chain gangs on public roads are arguably reckless cycling, falling below the standard the government has set for a competent cyclist (National Standard for Cycle Training level 3 section 16: "cyclists should not ride so close to each other that they cannot react to a sudden movement or stopping of the cyclist in front") but let's not go there, eh?  Hopefully we can agree that aerobar use in most chain gangs is a bit worse than arguably reckless...


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

Absolutely not. Should only be used for TTT and or practice. Even with people you know and ride with regular its a no no. With people you aren't familiar with, what planet are they on, so dangerous.


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## jiberjaber (16 Aug 2018)

Not sure I understand this... going down on aerobars is not a good thing in a group of riders, if you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem. 

If this is about you are not allowed to ride in a group if you have them fitted (irrespective of them being used) - then yes that is a bit too nanny state for me.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

jiberjaber said:


> going down on aerobars is not a good thing in a group of riders, if you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.


@Fnaar. I suspect Miss Goodbody likes being the rider on the front, but it's the first time I've heard it called an aerobar.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

You don't even use bars in a chain gang. Way to dangerous as chain gangs vary speed quite a bit.

I know from club rides and training rides, as soon as the person in front stands up to climb a hill, they effectively 'go backwards' slightly as your speed is fractionally more just before you start to climb.


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## cyberknight (16 Aug 2018)

jiberjaber said:


> Not sure I understand this... going down on aerobars is not a good thing in a group of riders, if you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.
> 
> If this is about you are not allowed to ride in a group if you have them fitted (irrespective of them being used) - then yes that is a bit too nanny state for me.


Its actually using them during a ride, of course you can have them fitted , even on the front its a bit of a no no in terms of control.


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## cyberknight (16 Aug 2018)

fossyant said:


> You don't even use bars in a chain gang. Way to dangerous as chain gangs vary speed quite a bit.
> 
> I know from club rides and training rides, as soon as the person in front stands up to climb a hill, they effectively 'go backwards' slightly as your speed is fractionally more just before you start to climb.


i have seen this , its hard to learn how to transition between the two without practice.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

cyberknight said:


> i have seen this , its hard to learn how to transition between the two without practice.



You basically ride a few inches to the side, so the back wheel of the rider in front doesn't contact yours, but it can only be done with riders you know and you are all comfortable touching shoulders side by side. Its massively unnerving riding with folk you don't know that close, like on sportives. Plenty of gap there.


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## jiberjaber (16 Aug 2018)

fossyant said:


> You basically ride a few inches to the side, so the back wheel of the rider in front doesn't contact yours, but it can only be done with riders you know and *you are all comfortable touching shoulders side by side.* Its massively unnerving riding with folk you don't know that close, like on sportives. Plenty of gap there.


You see that's the bit I don't like about club riders / sportives/ being passed by such groups - you don't get any of that on an Audax, and if you did I would probably break off the group / drop out of the back as there is no good going to come of such riding if I have nowhere to maneuver from a hazard or riders are not concentrating the slightest bit due to fatigue. I apply a similar rule as to who's wheel I'll follow.... (mostly based on proper mudguards with a long flap )

I've just noticed this thread is in the cycling clubs section of the forum - so I'll leave it there


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

jiberjaber said:


> You see that's the bit I don't like about club riders / sportives/ being passed by such groups - you don't get any of that on an Audax, and if you did I would probably break off the group / drop out of the back as there is no good going to come of such riding if I have nowhere to maneuver from a hazard or riders are not concentrating the slightest bit due to fatigue. I apply a similar rule as to who's wheel I'll follow.... (mostly based on proper mudguards with a long flap )
> 
> I've just noticed this thread is in the cycling clubs section of the forum - so I'll leave it there



You are quite right though


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

fossyant said:


> You don't even use bars in a chain gang.


How good's your steering, then? 





(source)


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## steveindenmark (16 Aug 2018)

I have tri bars but dont ride in a group.

However I have a question. Setting tri bars up to the correct position and then removing them is a real pain. Would it be acceptable to have tri bars fitted for a group ride, but then not use them?


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2018)

mjr said:


> How good's your steering, then?
> View attachment 425315
> 
> (source)



Yikes.


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## smutchin (16 Aug 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> Would it be acceptable to have tri bars fitted for a group ride, but then not use them?



One of the arguments against them is that having pointy bits sticking out of the bike could cause more serious injuries in the event of a crash, but I suspect this danger is largely theoretical rather than actual. (Much like the argument against disc brakes which are supposedly capable of slicing limbs off, if you believe some of the horror stories.)

However, I do know of someone who suffered life-threatening injuries from being impaled on the end of their regular drop bars in a crash, which is one reason why you should always at very least make sure your bar ends are plugged.


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## cyberknight (16 Aug 2018)

rud m


fossyant said:


> You basically ride a few inches to the side, so the back wheel of the rider in front doesn't contact yours, but it can only be done with riders you know and you are all comfortable touching shoulders side by side. Its massively unnerving riding with folk you don't know that close, like on sportives. Plenty of gap there.


I was on bout transition from seated to standing without dropping back which i can do without falling back


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## cyberknight (16 Aug 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> I have tri bars but dont ride in a group.
> 
> However I have a question. Setting tri bars up to the correct position and then removing them is a real pain. Would it be acceptable to have tri bars fitted for a group ride, but then not use them?


Thats not an issue , its riding in a bunch on them .


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## smutchin (16 Aug 2018)

mjr said:


> It's a group ride but not a chain gang.



If you're riding far enough apart for aerobars to be safe, it's not going to be a very sociable group. How do you chat with each other - walkie-talkie?


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## derrick (16 Aug 2018)

cyberknight said:


> Raised an issue last night to the club Secretary.Its a newly formed club and riders have been turning up and riding on tri bars in a group ride .i personally feel they are not suited for group rides and raised it to him .One has already flounced after it was announced they were not supposed to use them in a group. Feel a bit of a shoot for raising it but i dont want someone causing a crash


Just stick them up the front. Seriously though i am with you on this one,, Idid ride with someone earlier in the year who had TT bars on. But she was traing for a ironman, She did not join in club rides.


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## T4tomo (16 Aug 2018)

mjr said:


> Depends on the group. They're not suitable for tight formation riding IMO because most riders can't get to the brakes fast enough but they can be OK in relaxed social groups with good stopping distances between riders. In relaxed groups, riders with regular bars who try to overtake on the left silently are far more hazardous and you can't spot them before the start.


If its a relaxed social ride, you presumably don't need aero bars as you are not straining for every extra mph.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2018)

smutchin said:


> If you're riding far enough apart for aerobars to be safe, it's not going to be a very sociable group. How do you chat with each other - walkie-talkie?


It's mainly the headway that's bigger so you chat to the riders next to you. Of course, that does rely on any aerobar user still being able to steer competently!


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## Tin Pot (16 Aug 2018)

I’m not an advocate of aero bars on club rides.

However I disagree that using aero bars falls below blah blah level of whatever to be safe.

It’s just a position, that position can be safe and usually is.

On that basis I don’t see why being at the front of a chain gang in aero position is dangerous *per se*. Other factors could make it dangerous, in which case you sit up.


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## pawl (16 Aug 2018)

If I remember correctly those short stubby bars that were the fashion in the pro peloton we’re banned due to safety issues,Watch a pro TT When cornering change to the main bars presumably because it is difficult to control the bike going into bends.

TT bars are forTT not club runs


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## dan_bo (16 Aug 2018)

only pussies need tri bars anyroad


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## Tin Pot (16 Aug 2018)

pawl said:


> If I remember correctly those short stubby bars that were the fashion in the pro peloton we’re banned due to safety issues,Watch a pro TT When cornering change to the main bars presumably because it is difficult to control the bike going into bends.
> 
> TT bars are forTT not club runs


False premise, false assertion


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## Tin Pot (16 Aug 2018)

dan_bo said:


> only pussies need tri bars anyroad



There could be some truth in that...

Alistair Brownlee wind St George 70.3






Frodeno winning Kona




Froome winning everything






Yeah, pussies...


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## pawl (16 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> False premise, false assertion




Why


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## HLaB (18 Aug 2018)

jiberjaber said:


> Not sure I understand this... going down on aerobars is not a good thing in a group of riders, if you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.
> 
> If this is about you are not allowed to ride in a group if you have them fitted (irrespective of them being used) - then yes that is a bit too nanny state for me.


You can't see the problem of not having direct access to the brakes riding just a few feet behind another rider and you can't see the problem when they crash and the poles potentially go into another rider


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## Tin Pot (18 Aug 2018)

HLaB said:


> You can't see the problem of not having direct access to the brakes riding just a few feet behind another rider and you can't see the problem when they crash and the poles potentially go into another rider



“if *you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.”*


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## pawl (18 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> “if *you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.”*



Do you or have you ever used tri bars?


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## HLaB (18 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> “if *you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.”*



Doh, but it still stands IMHO not having direct access to the brakes is not a good thing regardless of where you are in a pack. You do get a good draft off a confident TTer though


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## cyberknight (19 Aug 2018)

Anyway club secretary agreed and .has asked riders not to use them in group rides with the medical exemption for ex soldier with knackered arm.


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## Tin Pot (19 Aug 2018)

pawl said:


> Do you or have you ever used tri bars?



Yes.

I would liken them to spdsl pedals. The first time someone gets a road bike and clips in, they feel totally off balance and a bit out of control, a months later they might feel completely comfortable.

Tri bars are similar - the first time I put on tri bars I fell off to disastrous consequences. Now I can take to the lanes at high speed without a loss of control. It’s about awareness, you sit up when you suspect someone may try to kill you.

Remember, no one in this thread is condoning being on bars in a peloton unless you are at the front.






They all died shortly after this photo was taken.


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## cyberknight (19 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes.
> 
> I would liken them to spdsl pedals. The first time someone gets a road bike and clips in, they feel totally off balance and a bit out of control, a months later they might feel completely comfortable.
> 
> ...


ahh Triathletes. not known for bike handling anyway


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## smutchin (19 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> They all died shortly after this photo was taken.



RIP


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## Tin Pot (19 Aug 2018)

cyberknight said:


> ahh Triathletes. not known for bike handling anyway



Who needs bike handling skills when you can simply yell “On your right!” hours and hours?


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## cyberknight (20 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Who needs bike handling skills when you can simply yell “On your right!” hours and hours?


and ride into horses.


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## viniga (23 Aug 2018)

FWIW I think using aerobars in a group ride is nuts. Having them installed because you use your clipons sometimes (TT or long solo rides) and can't be arsed taking them off... ok... but I bet you would be sorely tempted to use them when you were on the front in a chainy, which might be ok but how are you going to signal an obstacle coming up?

In a tight group you need to signal and have the best control possible. Good access to the brakes, yes but if this is a chain gang then no-one should be on the brakes when its flowing.

On the local club scene I mainly do individual TTs and my handling in the bars has improved. I've done one 2up on a flat course and there is a hilly 2up approaching. On the flat course 4 riders went down touching wheels and the race was abandoned! I'm a bit nervous about these...


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## OnTheRopes (31 Dec 2018)




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## alicat (31 Dec 2018)

Is that clip for real? Does anyone have a rear-facing camera? It looks like the rider behind either wasn't paying attention or crashed on purpose?


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## OnTheRopes (1 Jan 2019)

alicat said:


> Is that clip for real? Does anyone have a rear-facing camera? It looks like the rider behind either wasn't paying attention or crashed on purpose?


Is your comment for real? Does anyone have a rear facing camera? Ermm yes and lots of genuine clips like this out there of people. Inattentive? Most probably but a good demonstration of why riding in a group on tri bars is a bad idea


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## alicat (1 Jan 2019)

Yes, it was. I'm sorry I asked the question.


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## OnTheRopes (1 Jan 2019)

alicat said:


> Yes, it was. I'm sorry I asked the question.


Fair enough, in that case, yes many people carry rear facing cameras perhaps the most popular being the Fly 6, commuters use them often for evidence and some use them to record group rides like in the clip, which to me seems genuine.


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## Heltor Chasca (1 Jan 2019)

Not racing or even club rides, but Audax events allow them. Rather than for speed: In my case, they are purely for comfort, efficiency, pastie strapping options and as a convenient Bluetooth speaker mount for those long, lonely rides. 

The exception is the Paris-Brest-Paris ride so I’ll have to wean myself off my sun lounger by 2023.


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## DCBassman (14 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Paris-Brest-Paris


Now, that's a ride! How long is the expected time for that?


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Not racing or even club rides, but Audax events allow them. Rather than for speed: In my case, they are purely for comfort, efficiency, pastie strapping options and as a convenient Bluetooth speaker mount for those long, lonely rides.
> 
> The exception is the Paris-Brest-Paris ride so I’ll have to wean myself off my sun lounger by 2023.
> 
> ...



You can use the short stubby draft legal tri bars this time round. Must not extend beyond brake levers. So some hand relief on PBP is possible for upright riders.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2019)

DCBassman said:


> Now, that's a ride! How long is the expected time for that?



Quickest was 42 hours elapsed last time, time limit 90 hours if you opt for the full allowance.


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## Strathlubnaig (15 Jan 2019)

Tin Pot said:


> “if *you are the rider on the front then I do not see a problem.”*


perhaps, maybe, but of course you never ride the front the entire ride and also being on the bars then it is harder to point out obstacles etc for those behind. Just ditch the trip bars if you ride in any group, easy fix.


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