# Turbo trainer, first thoughts



## Alan O (20 Nov 2016)

I've just got a cheap turbo trainer and I thought I'd offer a few initial thoughts in case it might help others thinking about getting one. But first a bit of background...

I'm only recently back to cycling at the age of 58 after a break of about 20 years. I also had a heart attack and quadruple bypass 10 years ago, from which I recovered remarkably quickly (and will be forever thankful for the treatment and rehab care I received from Liverpool's Broad Green hospital and staff). Since that illness, I've been focused on cardiac fitness - I walk at least 10,000 steps a day, push my old Mum around in her wheelchair for rides of around 5 to 8 miles every weekend (weather permitting), and I exercise at home too.

I bought a fairly cheap elliptical trainer and exercise bike shortly after my rehab. I love the elliptical trainer and have almost worn it out (when I use it now it creaks and groans more than I do), but I never liked the exercise bike - I guess it's fine as an exercise machine, but I tend to judge it as a bicycle and the geometry is all wrong.

Anyway, back to cycling, and I've signed up for the Liverpool-Chester-Liverpool 100 mile ride next July as a target. In the (distant) past my preparation for a 100 mile ride was usually just a few 25-50 mile rides, ease up on the pub visits the week before, and then just get up and go - but I can't do it like that now, and I need some training through the winter.

So, I got a Tacx Blue Matic (£87, Halfords), and so far I've done two sessions of 30 and 60 minutes - and I'm liking it. For one thing, the geometry is right, because it's my bike on it!

It really is good being able to pedal away for an hour while watching telly in the warm and listening to the hailstorm in the background outside (though when other family members are watching Emmerdale or Corrie, it might be more of an incentive to turn it round and aim for the hail).

It's also nice having my fitbit and iPad in sync and watching my heart rate - it meant I could amble along at a pace of around 115-120 bpm, interspersed with short bursts to around 135-150.

It struck me that an hour on the trainer is worth more than an hour on the road, because there's no coasting and it's continuous effort. I also found it harder on my bum, as there's nothing remotely like the uphill resistance that puts the pressure onto the pedals (I'm breaking in a new Brooks Swallow, so it all helps).

The trainer is clearly very hard on tyres. I have a pair of relatively cheap Continental Ultra Sport slick tyres on the bike, and I like them on the road - there's no puncture protection to speak of and the walls are thin, but pumped up hard they feel great (and as an aside, even these cheap slicks are way better than the junk I used to ride on in the past, and tyres is an area where I'm really pleased to see progress). But they seem to have a soft compound, and I've managed to melt the surface and roll off little beads of rubber (hey, just like F1 drivers - I'm a mean cyclist!). I've since found some cheap tyres on offer at £6 each, so I've ordered some of those for use with the trainer.

Anyway, much rambling later, I'd encourage anyone who's pondering the purchase of a turbo trainer to go for it. I think my Tacx one is very good value (other makes are, of course, available, and I'm sure they're similarly good), and mine is going to get a lot of use. And it's really not a big investment to risk.

Meanwhile, 100 miles? Bring it on!

Alan


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## Racing roadkill (20 Nov 2016)

Turbos are fantastic bits of kit, if you're recuperating after injury / illness, or setting a bike up after a build / rebuild / major overhaul.
Personally I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than use one for anything else. They're also useful if you are doing specific training, that would be a bad idea on an open road ( one leg drills for example ). I ride in any conditions ( except Ice / strong risk of ice ) but I've got a trike on my N+1 list, then even ice can do one. I guess it's each to their own, but there's so much missing from the riding experience, riding on a turbo, I really can't be bothered with it ( except for the above examples ).


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## S-Express (20 Nov 2016)

Something is not right if the tyre is melting. The Ultrasport is not a particularly soft compound so it's possible you may have the roller pressure adjusted incorrectly. My son uses the same turbo and we have no issue with tyres at all.



Racing roadkill said:


> They're also useful if you are doing specific training, that would be a bad idea on an open road ( one leg drills for example )



Great advice. One-legged drills are perfect training for one-legged cycle races.


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## smokeysmoo (20 Nov 2016)

Alan O said:


> I've since found some cheap tyres on offer at £6 each, so I've ordered some of those for use with the trainer.


Never managed to melt a tyre myself TBH, but seeing as you have a turbo specific trainer tyre will sort you out, see HERE


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## Alan O (20 Nov 2016)

S-Express said:


> Something is not right if the tyre is melting.


First session the tyre was slipping a bit because I didn't have enough pressure, and it was quite sticky at the end, so I think it was just the friction. Second session I adjusted it for more pressure (ie more tyre bulge) and it was that one that generated the rubber beads - maybe just removing the melted layer from my first attempt?

As for getting specific trainer tyres, I'm restricted by having 27" wheels.


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## jay clock (20 Nov 2016)

I do a weekly turbo session and it is great. We also go for a one mile run off the bike (brick session) as we are well hard triathletes )or tubby old one in my case). Personally I have dedicated wheel that I slip on with the turbo and have a special turbo tyre on that wheel.


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## cyberknight (20 Nov 2016)

Dedicated turbo trainer tyre is great if you can , i have an old spare wheel with an old cassette + turbo tyre on it so i can just swap it when i want to turbo.

The cassette is worn and doesnt index 100% but its close enough .
Today i did my session to this ....


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## Alan O (20 Nov 2016)

cyberknight said:


> Dedicated turbo trainer tyre is great if you can , i have an old spare wheel with an old cassette + turbo tyre on it so i can just swap it when i want to turbo. The cassette is worn and doesnt index 100% but its close enough .


As it happens, I have a new freewheel/cassette and chain waiting to go on as the old ones are getting a bit worn, so I guess the answer is obvious - get a new wheel for the new stuff and keep the old one for the trainer. Indexing isn't an issue, as my old gear doesn't do any of that.


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## Viking (21 Nov 2016)

I've got a turbo-specific TACX tyre on a spare wheel and it works well on the turbo but was an absolute pig to fit.


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## AlanW (21 Nov 2016)

Direct drive, no tyre to slip.....


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Nov 2016)

AlanW said:


> Direct drive, no tyre to slip.....


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## Alan O (21 Nov 2016)

I've seen trainer-specific tyres, but not for 27" wheels. But I do have a spare 27" back wheel, and I'm sure the £6 tyres I've ordered will keep me going for a while.


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## Stephenite (21 Nov 2016)

I want to get Zwift/Bkool-ready kit for xmas. The usual suspect has been tipped off but the word is there's no progress to date.


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## JtB (21 Nov 2016)

Alan O said:


> I've just got a cheap turbo trainer and I thought I'd offer a few initial thoughts in case it might help others thinking about getting one. But first a bit of background...
> 
> I'm only recently back to cycling at the age of 58 after a break of about 20 years. I also had a heart attack and quadruple bypass 10 years ago, from which I recovered remarkably quickly (and will be forever thankful for the treatment and rehab care I received from Liverpool's Broad Green hospital and staff). Since that illness, I've been focused on cardiac fitness - I walk at least 10,000 steps a day, push my old Mum around in her wheelchair for rides of around 5 to 8 miles every weekend (weather permitting), and I exercise at home too.
> 
> ...


Well done, such a great state of mind and such fantastic results since your heart problems.

I also get lots of fine dust / beads on my turbo trainer tyre, but I do 3 - 4 intensive 45 minute workouts per week throughout the winter to the video embedded by @cyberknight above (unfortunately I can't cope with TV soaps, they would depress rather than motivate me).

Since I have a fluid turbo trainer with a defined power curve then there's no resistance control to make it easy and cheat. As such I can track my performance and progress using my Garmin Edge 1000 with an ANT speed sensor (on the rear wheel) and cadence sensor. I'm sure you could achieve the same thing with a cheap cycling computer.

I also have a heart rate sensor but I never use it either for riding or on the turbo trainer because I feel a bit uncomfortable placing it so close to the pacemaker which I received 2 years ago. Also, my cardiologist (who happens to be keen cyclist himself) told me not to bother with heart rate monitors and to rely on my own body telling me how hard I can push it (of course my situation is completely different to yours so that advice may not apply to you).

Anyway, I've enjoyed 2 winters of turbo trainer so much that I've just today ordered a 2nd identical setup so my wife can join me on her bike and we can provide each other with additional motivation.


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## 3narf (21 Nov 2016)

I bought a cheap turbo trainer last week, from Aldi- £50 and it's a fluid one too. 

First go today & I found it hard going; I only had 10 mins to spare and it was quite an effort, harder than riding on the road I thought. Maybe I was pushing too hard to do my usual cadence on my single speed bike.


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## Yorksman (21 Nov 2016)

I started with a cheap turbo trainer and an old bike and eventually kept upgrading until I got an Tacx iFlow with the TTS4 software. The most expensive part of my setup was the PC which needs some very good specs if you use the Virtual Worlds. But, there are plenty of films from Tacx and also from 3rd parties. Cadence VR have a lot of films which run on lower spec PCs and are aimed at users with turbo trainers not linked to PCs:

http://www.cadencevr.com/en/

I have been using my system almost daily and my heart has improved from a severe disfunction to a moderate disfunction. I'm confident that I can get it to improve further to mild disfunction. Just keep moving, steady as you go.


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## ColinJ (22 Nov 2016)

@Alan O - my cousin recently gave me a Tacx turbo trainer and I was having problems with the tyre slipping on its roller. I did what you did and pumped some more air into it and that helped a bit. Then I discovered that there is a rotary control under the foot 'pedal' which is used to raise the roller to the tyre - the control can be turned to increase or decrease the distance between the roller and the tyre. Your Tacx turbo looks like it has a similar mechanism. Take a look under the 'pedal' and adjust that control! I managed to stop the tyre slipping. Keep reducing the distance until the tyre doesn't slip when putting a big effort in on the turbo. Don't make that distance smaller than necessary or you will increase tyre wear.

As for turbo tyres - I am using old tyres which are too worn to risk out on the road but should be good for a few weeks of turbo training.


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## AlanW (22 Nov 2016)

The problem with using normal road tyres is the amount of tension you have to apply to the roller in order to stop the tyre from slipping. Ultimately this creates a less than realistic feel to the trainer and often results in a "chopping" effect, instead of a smooth circular motion.

A specific turbo tyre is more tactile than a normal road tyre therefore it needs less tension so avoid it slipping


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## smutchin (22 Nov 2016)

AlanW said:


> The problem with using normal road tyres is the amount of tension you have to apply to the roller in order to stop the tyre from slipping.



Would higher tyre pressure help? I imagine you would need higher tyre pressure than for road riding.


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## AlanW (22 Nov 2016)

The problem with increasing the pressure is that the tyre will deform less, so you would need to apply more pressure to avoid it from slipping. Ideally you need the tyre to deform a little to give it better traction against the roller.


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## fixedfixer (22 Nov 2016)

smokeysmoo said:


> Never managed to melt a tyre myself TBH, but seeing as you have a turbo specific trainer tyre will sort you out, see HERE



Appreciate he said that he needs a 27" but anyone wanting a 700 x 23 might consider the Halfords offering - doesn't have to handle well or anything on a trainer....


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## Alan O (22 Nov 2016)

ColinJ said:


> @Alan O - my cousin recently gave me a Tacx turbo trainer and I was having problems with the tyre slipping on its roller. I did what you did and pumped some more air into it and that helped a bit. Then I discovered that there is a rotary control under the foot 'pedal' which is used to raise the roller to the tyre - the control can be turned to increase or decrease the distance between the roller and the tyre. Your Tacx turbo looks like it has a similar mechanism. Take a look under the 'pedal' and adjust that control! I managed to stop the tyre slipping. Keep reducing the distance until the tyre doesn't slip when putting a big effort in on the turbo. Don't make that distance smaller than necessary or you will increase tyre wear.
> 
> As for turbo tyres - I am using old tyres which are too worn to risk out on the road but should be good for a few weeks of turbo training.


Yep, I found that adjustment knob partway through my second session, and it helped a lot


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## Yorksman (24 Nov 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Then I discovered that there is a rotary control under the foot 'pedal' which is used to raise the roller to the tyre - the control can be turned to increase or decrease the distance between the roller and the tyre. Your Tacx turbo looks like it has a similar mechanism. Take a look under the 'pedal' and adjust that control! I managed to stop the tyre slipping.



Yes, that's what it is there for. The Tacx systems which are connected to PCs have a calibration utility. You pedal to get the speed upto 30kph and then it tells you to stop pedalling and then measures the time it takes for the flyweel to stop. It tells you to adjust that wheel depending on whether there is too much or too little pressure between roller and tyre.


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2016)

fixedfixer said:


> Appreciate he said that he needs a 27" but anyone wanting a 700 x 23 might consider the Halfords offering - doesn't have to handle well or anything on a trainer....


I use that tyre , does the job .


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## ColinJ (24 Nov 2016)

Yorksman said:


> Yes, that's what it is there for. The Tacx systems which are connected to PCs have a calibration utility. You pedal to get the speed upto 30kph and then it tells you to stop pedalling and then measures the time it takes for the flyweel to stop. It tells you to adjust that wheel depending on whether there is too much or too little pressure between roller and tyre.


Ah, I had read about people 'calibrating' them but I didn't know how they did it.

The Tacx turbo that I am using was donated to me by my cousin. (He has upgraded to a better one.) He did supply the manual but I didn't bother reading it because the turbo looked very simple to put together and use. Ha - I missed that adjuster and did 2 or 3 sessions with the back tyre occasionally slipping on the roller!


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## fixedfixer (24 Nov 2016)

Out of interest - what do folks think about different tyres when using the rollers. I assume standard are fine as you don't seem to get the same slippage as the turbo trainers. Apologies if I've moved too far off topic - "mods" feel free to move to a more appropriate thread if required.


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## ColinJ (24 Nov 2016)

fixedfixer said:


> Out of interest - what do folks think about different tyres when using the rollers. I assume standard are fine as you don't seem to get the same slippage as the turbo trainers. * Apologies if I've moved too far off topic - "mods" feel free to move to a more appropriate thread if required*.


We have already been discussing them in _THIS_ thread!


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## smutchin (24 Nov 2016)

ColinJ said:


> We have already been discussing them in _THIS_ thread!



Only with regard to turbos, not rollers. 

It's an interesting question. I imagine slippage is still possible on rollers but I don't know because I've never used them. I have experienced slippage on the Bkool Pro, which unlike other turbo trainers uses the rider's weight to make the contact between tyre and roller, so is more like a set of rollers in that respect - but the slippage only occurred when out of the saddle, which I know you're not really supposed to do on a turbo trainer.


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## ColinJ (24 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> Only with regard to turbos, not rollers.
> 
> It's an interesting question. I imagine slippage is still possible on rollers but I don't know because I've never used them. I have experienced slippage on the Bkool Pro, which unlike other turbo trainers uses the rider's weight to make the contact between tyre and roller, so is more like a set of rollers in that respect - but the slippage only occurred when out of the saddle, which I know you're not really supposed to do on a turbo trainer.


Ah, my mistake - that's due to me speed-reading and multitasking again!


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## fixedfixer (24 Nov 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Ah, my mistake - that's due to me speed-reading and multitasking again!



No bother. Just the sort of thing I do. I am _told _ I can't multitask and I'm not going to argue that one.


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## fixedfixer (24 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> Only with regard to turbos, not rollers.
> 
> It's an interesting question. I imagine slippage is still possible on rollers but I don't know because I've never used them. I have experienced slippage on the Bkool Pro, which unlike other turbo trainers uses the rider's weight to make the contact between tyre and roller, so is more like a set of rollers in that respect - but the slippage only occurred when out of the saddle, which I know you're not really supposed to do on a turbo trainer.



Ta, didn't think that I'd need to change tyres - to be honest I just put the bike on the rollers and can't wait for my allotted time to end .... Roll on Spring. Ice and frost in Aberdeenshire all day and seems set for whole weekend.


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## smokeysmoo (26 Nov 2016)

fixedfixer said:


> Appreciate he said that he needs a 27" but anyone wanting a 700 x 23 might consider the Halfords offering - doesn't have to handle well or anything on a trainer....


Hard to appreciate as the OP didn't mention it until after I'd posted


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## iancity (26 Nov 2016)

Yorksman...just ordered a smart trainer and I'm really interested int the videos from the site you posted, it looks exactly the sort of stuff I would like to do...however, from just a quick flick through the site it looks like they (the videos) are all DVD. I would connect the bike etc up to the PC which does not have a DVD player, do you know if the videos can just be downloaded, or watched as a 'stream' ?

Very new to this whole trainer thing so might be asking a really stupid q !

thanks

Ian


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## r04DiE (26 Nov 2016)

iancity said:


> Yorksman...just ordered a smart trainer and I'm really interested int the videos from the site you posted, it looks exactly the sort of stuff I would like to do...however, from just a quick flick through the site it looks like they (the videos) are all DVD. I would connect the bike etc up to the PC which does not have a DVD player, do you know if the videos can just be downloaded, or watched as a 'stream' ?
> 
> Very new to this whole trainer thing so might be asking a really stupid q !
> 
> ...


Usually, videos are streamed over your internet connection. At least, that's what happens with Bkool, which is what I use and I think its the same for other brands.


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## Yorksman (27 Nov 2016)

Some of the videos that are purchased, whether supplied on DVD or downloadable, are designed for use with turbo trainers which interact with a PC. The TT's have an electro magnetic brake and the video has incline information built in so, when you come to a 5% hill, a certain amount of brake is applied to the TT making pedalling harder. That is true of companies like CadenceVR but they also supply the film as with a stand alone video player, so you don't need an expensive TT. However, they seem to be all supplied on DVD. Tacx do downloads for some of their videos but they might be 12Gb in size and are really designed to work with the Tacx software on your PC. If you haven't got a DVD on your PC, it is unlikely to meet the minimum specs to run the software.

However, as mentioned above, there are quite a lot of videos that people have made and uploaded to youtube. There is no interaction with your turbo trainer. If you stop pedalling your video will still run and, if you come to a hill, your pedalling will be just the same, not harder. Some of the youtube videos though tell you to increase the manual resistance on your TT. At any rate, these videos are still fun to watch whilst you pedal away. The variety on youtube is varied from the amateur with a camera just having a laugh to some serious photography. The guy below has a page where he lists all his TT videos. Have a look and then explore others on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?an...9TOVY1lBEyIW7ufBmhcss14Hc&src_vid=nF_owBP6MtA

example:


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## screenman (27 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> Only with regard to turbos, not rollers.
> 
> It's an interesting question. I imagine slippage is still possible on rollers but I don't know because I've never used them. I have experienced slippage on the Bkool Pro, which unlike other turbo trainers uses the rider's weight to make the contact between tyre and roller, so is more like a set of rollers in that respect - but the slippage only occurred when out of the saddle, which I know you're not really supposed to do on a turbo trainer.



No problem out of the saddle sprinting, this is one of the huge benefits over rollers.


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## Yorksman (27 Nov 2016)

@iancity 

Here's someone who has filmed in Italy, I think using a headcam rather than a handlebar mounted cam. It's very good because he 'looks around'. Adverts appear though which are annoying but, it's free and you can watch it today


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## dave r (28 Nov 2016)

I remember my first turbo trainer, one of the original white ones, brought off a club mate in the early 1990's, memories of evenings in the shed watching the heart monitor by torch light with music on cassette on my walkman. Times have changed and theres some fantastic kit about now. I still have a turbo trainer, a modern one, I haven't had a chance to use it yet this winter, and when I do use it it won't be at the intensity or frequency I used to do.


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## adamangler (30 Nov 2016)

I used to hate the turbo until unfounded bkool. now it's good, sometimes I prefer it to being outside.


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## AlanW (1 Dec 2016)

adamangler said:


> I used to hate the turbo until unfounded bkool. now it's good, sometimes I prefer it to being outside.



Try Zwift then, even better IMHO


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## iancity (10 Dec 2016)

Amazed with Zwift, and the technology behind it. Out now for Ipads and iphones as well :-)


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