# 1940s Raleigh rescue - Should I or shouldn't I?



## ChrisEyles (30 Oct 2014)

Just seen a pair of old (owner says 1940s, which looks about right) Raleigh bikes going near me. 

Nothing to go on except two pics (below)...

Looks like there is only one saddle, and one front (rod) brake, between the two. The frame on one also looks to be in a bit of a state, but it's hard to tell from the picture how deep the rust has got. 

I'm quite tempted to see if I can salvage parts off of one to fully kit out the other (better) of the two frames, then give everything a good old clean and see how it scrubs up. Owner is asking £35 for the pair, and have been direly warned by my wife not to spend any more on doing them up! 

What do people thing, worth a pop or likely to be a money-sink? This will be a first for me, so is there anything to look out for when viewing the bikes, other than damage to the frame/forks?


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## ChrisEyles (30 Oct 2014)




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## Cycleops (30 Oct 2014)

You should be able to get one decent bike from the two. It's not going to be cheap, even with a oily rag refurb. Worth it? That's really up to you. You'll need to add the rear brake, tyres, tubes, wheel rebuild, chain and relube. That'll get it ridable. Are the seat posts stuck? Might render them scrap if they are. Don't listen to 'er indoors!


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## raleighnut (30 Oct 2014)

I would but remember they're gonna need tyres and tubes so a zero budget ain't do-able


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## ChrisEyles (30 Oct 2014)

That's what I'm thinking - I am torn! Really fancy it as a project, but the budget is low low low, and the only thing that would annoy 'Er indoors more than me buying the bikes would be the bikes lying in pieces forever around the shed  

I *think* (hope!) the rear brakes may be present - underneath the chainstays instead of behind the seatstays - but again it's hard to see from the pictures. Never seen any rod brakes before, I am quite curious about them!

A pair of (cheap) tyres/tubes (and maybe brake pads and chain if necessary) I can probably get away with, but a wheel rebuild is going to be out. If the wheel looks to be roughly true on spinning, is it likely to be OK or will it still need attention? 

I don't really have the know-how to put in a new BB or headset either (especially not on something this old!), so will have to hope these are OK. Ditto the Sturmey Archer rear hubs (at least I assume that's what they're likely to be)!

If they stay on offer a little longer I don't think I'm going to be able to stop myself at least going and having a look (with £35 in my back pocket). 

If I do go for it there'll be pictures aplenty!


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## raleighnut (30 Oct 2014)

I'd be tempted to totally strip the top one for bits, flog off the frame on E-bay and build up the older one (frame with bolt on rear stays) using the money from the sale of the frame (someone in that there London can fixie it)


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## Cycleops (30 Oct 2014)

Sorry the rear brake is there, didn't see it before. Check the headset by holding the front brake on and rocking the bike back and forth. Even if gone replacement is very cheap. Likewise the BB, feel for any play by pulling the cranks.


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## ChrisEyles (30 Oct 2014)

Haha, I must say I like the idea of financing a rebuild by sending one of the frames off to London to be re-incarnated as a fixie  

I hadn't noticed the bolt on rear stays - good spot! 

A bit of googling has suggested that old Raleighs often have strange threads on their BBs, so getting a new one might be problematic - this and/or frame/fork damage would be a deal breaker for me, but otherwise I am leaning more and more towards going for it!


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## raleighnut (30 Oct 2014)

The crank bearings normally just need a good clean up and regrease/new races as long as the shaft is sound, they were made of good quality steel.


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## roadrash (30 Oct 2014)

Re the bottom bracket, you will probably find that the thread is 26 tpi instead of the usual 24 , these bottom brackets are virtually bomb proof , usually a good clean and regrease of the bearings is enough , IF of course you can get the cotter pins out.


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## raleighnut (30 Oct 2014)

roadrash said:


> Re the bottom bracket, you will probably find that the thread is 26 tpi instead of the usual 24 , these bottom brackets are virtually bomb proof , usually a good clean and regrease of the bearings is enough , IF of course you can get the cotter pins out.


Aah cotterpins, takes me back, secret to getting them out is to soak em in penetrating oil for a day or so re-applying every now and then. Unscrew the nut until it's flush with the end of the pin and then a Bl**dy great whack with a biggish hammer, none of this tapping at it malarkey one hit should shock it out (if you do bend one they're only a couple of quid a pair but the one whack is less likely to damage em)


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## roadrash (30 Oct 2014)

another way , using a vice and an old socket like this , voila.... a home made cotter press


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## ChrisEyles (30 Oct 2014)

I've just had a read on Sheldon Brown's site about removing cotter pins and it sounds frankly terrifying! Still at least I'll have two bikes to practice on...


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## tribanjules (30 Oct 2014)

raleighnut said:


> Aah cotterpins, takes me back, secret to getting them out is to soak em in penetrating oil for a day or so re-applying every now and then. Unscrew the nut until it's flush with the end of the pin and then a Bl**dy great whack with a biggish hammer, none of this tapping at it malarkey one hit should shock it out (if you do bend one they're only a couple of quid a pair but the one whack is less likely to damage em)



Ahhhh happy days with cotter pins


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## ChrisEyles (31 Oct 2014)

Right, spoke to the owner last night - if he still has the bikes by next weekend I'm going over to pick them up. Keeping my fingers crossed no-one beats me to it!


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## Hugh Manatee (7 Nov 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've just had a read on Sheldon Brown's site about removing cotter pins and it sounds frankly terrifying! Still at least I'll have two bikes to practice on...



I don't know if the Sheldon method is the same as this, but feel free to try it. I found an old Moulton waiting for the scrap man. I grabbed it and decided to restore. The cotters were stuck solid. After a good soaking in Plus Gas, find a half inch drive socket. You'll need one large enough to fit over the end of the cotter with enough room for it to move up into the socket (giggidy). 

Now get a large vice and with the socket over the end of the cotter, use the power of the vice to push/squeeze the cotter out of the crank.

I had to use a short tube to give me extra welly on the vice handle. After not much time both of them popped out and I was able to dismantle the BB. This, as someone mentioned was in very good order indeed. I replaced the cages with loose bearings and used new grease but the BB surfaces were more or less perfect even after 45 years!


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## roadrash (7 Nov 2014)

just like three posts above


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## ChrisEyles (8 Nov 2014)

Thanks for all the tips everyone. This will be my first time totally stripping down and rebuilding a bike, so I'm sure I'll encounter plenty of other quandries along the way!

I'm looking at the bikes tomorrow, so hopefully they will be in a restoreable condition. 

If so I'll get some photos up of the bikes in their current state - and get those cotter pins (and seat posts) soaking


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## ChrisEyles (11 Nov 2014)

Well, I've now got the two bikes in my shed  Time for some piccies!

Here's the newer of the two - can't really place a model or year on this one (serial number 97814B on seat tube and 98740 on BB doesn't help), but the 26" wheels suggest it may possibly be a sports model? I don't think the pain is original (judging from how it's been slopped over the seat post, headset etc), so am thinking of stripping this frame down to repaint.













The other bike seems to date from 1937 (going on the serial number), and is probably a Raleigh Popular, based on inspection of the catalogues. This one has the standard 28" roadster wheels. Interestingly, the handlebars have been done in black rather than chrome - maybe wartime shortages, or a blackout precaution?

This one seems to have the original paintwork (including the remains of a nice headbadge), but the state of the paint and rust is so bad I'll probably strip this one down to repaint as well.












The restoration is going to be a v e r y s l o w process, but I'll keep updated with pics as and when I get the various jobs done!

Edit - both bikes have single speed rear hubs, rather that the 3 speed S.A. hubs I was expecting. When I've de-gunked them, I'll have a look to check for any year stamped on them.


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## raleighnut (11 Nov 2014)

The older one looks a corker. hardly touched in over 75 yrs by the look of things (apart from being ridden that is) could come up V nice but a lot of work.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Nov 2014)

I await the next instalment with bated breath.



ChrisEyles said:


> The restoration is going to be a v e r y s l o w process, but I'll keep updated with pics as and when I get the various jobs done!


 
... oh.

Looks really interesting. Have fun with them.


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## ChrisEyles (11 Nov 2014)

raleighnut said:


> The older one looks a corker. hardly touched in over 75 yrs by the look of things (apart from being ridden that is) could come up V nice but a lot of work.



Haha, apparently the older one was found in a field, so it could well not have been ridden for some time either! 



Dogtrousers said:


> I await the next instalment with bated breath..



I know... it's not for lack of enthusiasm though! One of the big hold-ups is going to be getting enough free days with dry weather to re-paint the frames!


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## ChrisEyles (11 Nov 2014)

Dogtrousers, these pics are for you, since you inspired me to have a quick crack at the newer bike:












Used the excellent trick with the vice and socket to get the cotter pins out.

One came out quietly, the other kicking and screaming.... it is now a little bent from the pressure of the vice, and the threads were already stripped. A bit of a bugger, since I don't relish the thought of filing a new one to match! If anyone's got any tips I'm all ears...!


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## Tony Raynor (11 Nov 2014)

New ones should fit without too much bother unless they are unusually large in diameter. The beauty of the cotter pin was that it would find its own level due to the chamfered side.


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## Hugh Manatee (11 Nov 2014)

I think you are supposed to replace cotter pins anyway. I did and had next to no trouble. I think I filed the flat faces slightly to allow more thread to poke through but that's all.

Remember, you'll only need the Imperial half of the spanner set!

I love the rod brakes. Your bikes look quite similar to the one on display in Cannock Chase Museum.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Nov 2014)

Tony Raynor said:


> New ones should fit without too much bother unless they are unusually large in diameter. *The beauty of the cotter pin* was that it would find its own level due to the chamfered side.


 THere's a phrase one doesn't hear very often.


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## raleighnut (11 Nov 2014)

Ah but if Campagnolo made them in Titanium for their new crankset would we go back.


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## ChrisEyles (11 Nov 2014)

Next up is fun and games with the pedals - they are incredibly stiff so need overhauling, but I can't undo them from the cranks! Need to find a length of pipe...


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## roadrash (11 Nov 2014)

i think a tin of plus gas is in order for the siezed pedals


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## raleighnut (11 Nov 2014)

Bit of MEDIUM heat (blowtorch) wouldn't go amiss either, separately of course unless you're a big @vernon fan.


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## vernon (11 Nov 2014)

raleighnut said:


> Bit of MEDIUM heat (blowtorch) wouldn't go amiss either, separately of course unless you're a big @vernon fan.



Medium?

I only do large.


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## Tony Raynor (11 Nov 2014)

I've got the same problem on a chainring. Still haven't managed to shift the pedal yet. It's in the "to do" box.


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## ChrisEyles (11 Nov 2014)

The blowtorch is definitely outside of my comfort zone (and equipment)! 
Trying a lazy fix on the pedals at the moment... Squirted in a bit of GT85, will leave for a bit and see if it frees up, then see if I can get any 3 in 1 down there. Not sure I have any imperial sockets to open up the locknut on the pedal either... 

The chain ring and cranks cleaned up very nicely - always a satisfying job  Unfortunately the chrome on the handlebars is pretty much shot, and they've almost rusted through underneath one of the grips, so these might be scrap.


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## wisdom (13 Nov 2014)

Good luck with the restoration/s please keep the pictures coming.


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## ChrisEyles (14 Nov 2014)

Nearly finished stripping down the newer of the two frames now - pictures to come when I get some free time in the daylight!


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## ChrisEyles (18 Nov 2014)

Here's where I left the frame last week:







The BB was giving me big problems - the (adjustable) cup was stuck incredibly tight! Not having the correct spanner didn't help...






With the help of my trusty vice (clamped on the cup and rotated to loosen the thread), I got there in the end...






Next I sanded down the frame, forks, and mudguards.... doing this by hand is hard work! Was planning to get down to clean metal, but ran out of sandpaper and arm-power, so I think this will have to do... planning to use Hammerite to repaint so hopefully it won't matter that I haven't got rid of every last bit of rust.






Also had a crack at the saddle on the older bike - scrubs up quite nicely. I still don't see why anyone would want to sit on one of these things when you could have chosen a nice B17 instead from the Raleigh catalogue at the time  But I will give it a go!







Hoping to do a first coat of paint at the weekend or next week, weather depending. I've head Hammerite can take ages to cure, so it will give me plenty of time to start looking at the wheels and stripping down the other bike.

If anyone has any tips on frame painting with Hammerite (even if it's "don't" - I may yet be persuaded), I'd love to hear! Not sure whether to go for a brush or sponge, so will be a process of trial and error. There is a reason I am painting the less interesting of the two bikes first!


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## mjr (18 Nov 2014)

I've heard that Hammerite is really inflexible so it always flakes off bikes in hard lumps eventually and between cracking and flaking, it's letting water through and basically helping the metal underneath to rust. That's certainly what it did on garden metalwork, so I'm pondering Rustoleum instead, especially as I can get a closer colour match. What do you think?

I'm intending to brush it because I've done that before to good effect, although never yet on a bike, so I'll be interested if you find a sponge works better.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Nov 2014)

I've heard mixed reports about Hammerite - people do either seem to love it or hate it (mostly the latter, but then these people also usually go on to suggest getting the frame professionally finished). The flaking off thing I've only seen when it's painted too thickly onto a less than perfect surface, but you're right, it could be an issue. 

TBH it probably comes down to what they have in stock down at B&Q/Halfords/Wherever on the day, and whether I like the colour! Will let you know how I get on!


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## raleighnut (18 Nov 2014)

Hammerite only sticks well to BARE metal, preferably with a tiny bit of surface rust so that it can chemically bond.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Nov 2014)

raleighnut said:


> Hammerite only sticks well to BARE metal, preferably with a tiny bit of surface rust so that it can chemically bond.



Oh dear... thanks for the heads up. Do you know of any good alternative that you can whack over (partially) pre-painted metal? I most certainly do not relish the thought of getting every scrap of pain off of those two bikes! Don't mind a less-than-showroom-perfect finish, but it would be nice if the paint stayed on the bike.


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## Hugh Manatee (18 Nov 2014)

Don't use Hammerite. If you must use brush on paint, there is a much better product. It is called Rust-oleum and it is available as brush on. I used the rattle tin version called Hard Hat. It seems (to me) to be a lot harder wearing than the big H and you can even clean the brush with white spirit and not the really expensive thinners Hammerite insist on!


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## raleighnut (18 Nov 2014)

I'd be tempted to use an enamel type of paint to avoid adverse reaction (crazing) on a frame that age.


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## raleighnut (18 Nov 2014)

Hugh Manatee said:


> Don't use Hammerite. If you must use brush on paint, there is a much better product. It is called Rust-oleum and it is available as brush on. I used the rattle tin version called Hard Hat. It seems (to me) to be a lot harder wearing than the big H and you can even clean the brush with white spirit and not the really expensive thinners Hammerite insist on!


If it thins/cleans with white spirit its an enamel type.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Nov 2014)

Three votes for Rust-oleum... Rust-oleum it shall be!
Thanks everyone for the helpful input 
Edit: I see they have it in Homebase in racing green - perfect


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## AndyRM (19 Nov 2014)

Racing green eh? I was excited to see the finished product before, even more so now!

Your call obviously, but I think that picking out details on the lugs with a rich cream colour would look stunning.


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## BrianEvesham (19 Nov 2014)

Enjoying this resto, keep posting the updates please.


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## broadway (19 Nov 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> Also had a crack at the saddle on the older bike - scrubs up quite nicely. I still don't see why anyone would want to sit on one of these things when you could have chosen a nice B17 instead from the Raleigh catalogue at the time  But I will give it a go!




A B66 would have been the appropriate choice for a roadster


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## ChrisEyles (19 Nov 2014)

AndyRM said:


> Racing green eh? I was excited to see the finished product before, even more so now!
> 
> Your call obviously, but I think that picking out details on the lugs with a rich cream colour would look stunning.



Rustoleum's idea of racing green looks to be a couple of shades lighter than my ideal, but hopefully should do the job  

Cream detail on the lugwork is a great idea (I was going to outline in gold, but think this would look much sharper)... however, the plan at the moment is to sell off the newer frame to finance building up the older one, and unfortunately the older frame has very basic, undecorative lugs... I'll have to mull this one over. 



BrianEvesham said:


> Enjoying this resto, keep posting the updates please.



Thanks  and will do! 

Quick question - what do people find the easiest way to support/rest a frame (and mudguards) when painting them? I guess the best way should be to hang the frame by a rope run through the head tube, that way you can get to everything easily?


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## BrianEvesham (19 Nov 2014)

broadway said:


>


This advert makes me want to own one.


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## mjr (20 Nov 2014)

BrianEvesham said:


> This advert makes me want to own one.


Yeah but pay the extra for stainless rims ;-)

Rustoleum have a large range of shades. Homebase only stock a tiny selection.


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## Dogtrousers (20 Nov 2014)

BrianEvesham said:


> This advert makes me want to own one.


Yes. And people think spokeless wheels are a new idea.


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## ChrisEyles (22 Nov 2014)

Started the paint job on the newer frame today 










Did a lot of careful masking of the head bagdge, headset and BB... hopefully not too much paint got underneath!

That Rustoleum is lovely and easy to work with, thanks again for the recommendation. Up close it looks like the finish will turn out perfectly acceptable (if a long way from perfect, thanks to my lacklustre preparation in the sanding stage).

Going to leave it to cure for a few days, then sand back with wet+dry, and hopefully do a second coat next weekend.


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## wisdom (22 Nov 2014)

Looks pretty good from the pictures. My garage is never that empty.


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## raleighnut (22 Nov 2014)

Looks a nice green.


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## ChrisEyles (22 Nov 2014)

wisdom said:


> Looks pretty good from the pictures. My garage is never that empty.



I'll post some close-up pictures after the second coat and rub down... but yes, I'm optimistic that it should come out looking OK. 
We recently moved house, and the new one came with this enormous shed - empty/tidy at the moment, but the challenge is not filling it up with stuff* that won't fit when we have to move again! 

* errr.... like old disabled bicycles.... 



raleighnut said:


> Looks a nice green.



To me, a true racing green is definitely darker - this looks more like garden fence green to me! But maybe it will darken a little as it cures... or maybe it will grow on me


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## ChrisEyles (26 Nov 2014)

While the enamel's curing between coats on the newer frame, I started work on the older one.

It was an absolute b*st*rd to take apart!

I think the cotter pins had fused into the crankset along with a load of rust - I had to get an extra long lever on the vice, and pop some wood between the vice and the frame/crank for cushioning, and they both gave an almighty CRACK when they finally loosend! Even after I got them out, the cranks were fused to the BB spindle. I had to turn them around and around with a bit of oil to loosen them up, which generated a *lot* of heat on the non drive side crank. I guess some of the rust/mangled cotter pin must have got ground in between the crank and the spindle... the drive side crank was also a swine to get off, and I found a pretty large metal shim inside it when I finally did, so I guess the hole for the BB spindle is not quite as round as it should be!

A lot of the rest of the nuts and bolts seemed equally fused together, with a depressing number of the nuts rouded off before I even started. A few of the smaller ones also gave up the ghost and sheared clean off (hopefully replacements can be scrounged from the other bike). Still, it wasn't all bad - the seat post came out very easily, which I definitely wasn't expecting, and the handlebars loosened up without too much of a fight. And I was a little more prepared for the fountain of bearings on disassembling the headset, so I managed to catch them all this time!

Here's where I am now with this one:






The last thing to come off should be the bolt-on seat stays... but this is bolted on nice and tight, and is the worst offender for a rounded-off nut, so I'm really not sure how I can get this off!! It also seems like a pretty feeble bolt for an important structural link... don't want to do a half baked job and not be able to tighten it back up again properly. But, if anyone has any suggestions, fire away and I'll give them a go!






Whatever happens now........ No more cotter pins to come out  This makes me very happy indeed.


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## raleighnut (26 Nov 2014)

For rounded off nuts try a socket that's just a bit too small and hammer it onto the nut/bolt head, the shocks of the hammering also help the corrosion bond to break.


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## AndyRM (26 Nov 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> To me, a true racing green is definitely darker - this looks more like garden fence green to me! But maybe it will darken a little as it cures... or maybe it will grow on me



Could you not add a tiny bit of black to get a darker shade?


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## ChrisEyles (26 Nov 2014)

raleighnut said:


> For rounded off nuts try a socket that's just a bit too small and hammer it onto the nut/bolt head, the shocks of the hammering also help the corrosion bond to break.



Great idea - I'll try this next time I do some more work on the bikes. Thanks!



AndyRM said:


> Could you not add a tiny bit of black to get a darker shade?



The Rustoleum says not to mix colours (there are separate paints you can buy to mix colours, but I don't have this)... I will see if it darkens at all as it cures, and like I say, it may grow on me yet!

Here are the cranksets after a good clean (degrease/wash, then tinfoil and lemon juice to get the rust off the chrome). Pedals still need to come off and be disassembled, cleaned, bearings greased etc, but I am still recovering from the cotter pins at the moment, so thats a job for another day.

The gearing is comically high on the older bike - 75 gear inches (48t/18t, 28" wheel)! This is paired with some whopping great big cranks, which must give an interesting ride. The newer one is geared at aroudn 64 gear inches (44t/18t, 26" wheel), with more normal length cranks.












The older one has quite a lot of missing chrome, which won't polish up no matter what I do. The newer one looks pretty good though.

Anyone any ideas how to tidy up chrome when it's gone this far? I was thinking of getting some silver paint and rubbing it in the rusted areas, wiping it off the smoother remaining chrome, but not sure how well that will work or how good it will look.

The other option would be to use the newer crankset on the older bike...... but I'm quite keen on keeping as much of the 1937 model going as possible, and reckon the comedy high gear and mahoosive cranks will all add to the character  Decisions, decisions...


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## AndyRM (26 Nov 2014)

Hm, I hadn't considered that there would be an issue mixing the paint. Best to follow the manufacturer's guidance I suppose.

Personally I'd not do anything too abrasive to the chrome. It's very old and I wouldn't want to risk damaging it. I also think that trying to fill it in the marks with paint would look a bit naff. Patina is a good thing!

@biggs682 might be able to offer a more knowledgeable suggestion! @Tony Raynor knows his way around such things too.


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## biggs682 (26 Nov 2014)

@ChrisEyles touching up the crank will look wrong imho , only choices i can think of is either have re chromed very very expensive or try sand blasting it and see what finish you get as it should lift loose chromed areas or try acid dipping it .

only other option is to replace and there are enough cottered cranks on the market to choose from 

Try using Plusgas for helping release seized or stuck nuts ,bolts etc etc

and like @AndyRM says Patina is good


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## Tony Raynor (26 Nov 2014)

@ChrisEyles im afraid that will be the best you will get from the current crank.

As for rechroming it's a challenging job and expensive due to the nature of the chemicals that are needed, the cost of getting rid of the chemicals and the prep work required (being an ex chemist Ive been researching DIY electroplating and have decided it's a specialised job)

Getting it sand blasted will clean it up and you could even get a good polished finish(but not as good as chrome). The problem is that there will be no protection for the steel and it will rust very quickly.

You can get zinc spray coating that is supposed to help prevent/reduce corrosion but you still won't get that chrome look.

Hope this helps


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## ChrisEyles (26 Nov 2014)

Thanks a lot for the feedback, both  

Since it's very much budget resto, re-chroming is out. Zinc spray coating for the damaged bits sounds interesting, might have to look into this. 

Patina is indeed a good thing, but I'm not sure about pairing the rusty crankset with a freshly re-painted frame? I'm going to have the same fun and games with the rod brake components too...

I need to get hold of some of this Plusgas stuff, sounds magic


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## AndyRM (27 Nov 2014)

On the patina thing, you'll have put time, effort and love into restoring things as best you can. It might not look quite right, but you'll always have the satisfaction of knowing a good job done.


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## ChrisEyles (27 Nov 2014)

^^^
double like


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## tribanjules (27 Nov 2014)

@ChrisEyles this is currently my fave thread - cant wait to see the result - and its tempting me to stretch n+1 rule to get a project .....


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## ChrisEyles (27 Nov 2014)

Thanks! 

As for the n+1, if you see a suitable bike, go for it - if you've got the time to spend doing it up I don't think you'll regret it  I can see this is going to get addictive... already thinking about what the next project might be!


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## ChrisEyles (3 Dec 2014)

No exciting pictures to post this week - got itchy feet sitting around in the garage and had to go out riding at the weekend instead  

The only thing I did manage to get around to didn't go so well... I sanded down the painted frame and gave it a second coat, but I guess it must have been too cold (it was definitely well under the 10C minimum written on the paint can), because this time the finish came out horrible, all brush marks and drips. Going to have to sand it back again and retry, preferably indoors this time. 



AndyRM said:


> Hm, I hadn't considered that there would be an issue mixing the paint. Best to follow the manufacturer's guidance I suppose.



Should have paid more attention to this line!


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## robsa (8 Dec 2014)

Come on Chris, hows it going? Ive just bought a 1950 dated rudge rod braked bike and your inspiring me to do a job on it. Cant decide whether to resto it or mechanical refurb and ride it in its shabby glory. So finding this thread is v interesting


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## ChrisEyles (8 Dec 2014)

It's going slowler than I'd like, mainly due to lack of lighting/heating in the garage, and busy weekends! 

I have been struggling some more with the pedals, and really can't get them to budge. I haven't tried heating them up yet, because it occurred to me that on a Raleigh "All Steel" bicycle, the cranks are made of steel as well as the spindle, so you might not get the differential expansion you expect with an Aluminium crank vs steel spindle. 

Next free daylight hour I get, I'm going to try stripping down the pedal while it's still attached to the crank, and see if I can get it running smoothly that way. 

Robsa, if the original paint on your Rudge is mostly intact, it's definitely worth a shot at cleaning and shining it up - the remains of the original paint job on mine came up quite nicely when I gave this a test.


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## robsa (8 Dec 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> It's going slowler than I'd like, mainly due to lack of lighting/heating in the garage, and busy weekends!
> 
> I have been struggling some more with the pedals, and really can't get them to budge. I haven't tried heating them up yet, because it occurred to me that on a Raleigh "All Steel" bicycle, the cranks are made of steel as well as the spindle, so you might not get the differential expansion you expect with an Aluminium crank vs steel spindle.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately at sometime in its life its been slathered over very badly with some black mucus masquerading as paint, which is a shame cause in the places it hasn't been ( chain guard and rear frame stays) it polishes up in that deep gloss that only a quality enamel can.


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## raleighnut (9 Dec 2014)

robsa said:


> Unfortunately at sometime in its life its been slathered over very badly with some black mucus masquerading as paint, which is a shame cause in the places it hasn't been ( chain guard and rear frame stays) it polishes up in that deep gloss that only a quality enamel can.


The black Gunk may well soften up and come off with white spirit. Try using it with a Scotchbrite (or any washing up green scourer) it shouldn't affect the enamel paint but if the black 'mucus' is a bitumous type it may well come off.


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## robsa (9 Dec 2014)

I'll g


raleighnut said:


> The black Gunk may well soften up and come off with white spirit. Try using it with a Scotchbrite (or any washing up green scourer) it shouldn't affect the enamel paint but if the black 'mucus' is a bitumous type it may well come off.


I'll give it a shot, got a week on the club because the damn dogs bitten me. Mans best friend???? I'll stick with me bike ta very much


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## ChrisEyles (9 Dec 2014)

Good luck! Agree it's a lovely shine you get on the old enamel


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## Tony Raynor (9 Dec 2014)

If its bitumen based then surfactant won't shift it quickly. Best way to get bitumen type stuff off is to use cooking oil with a green scourer. Then use surfactant to remove the excess oil.

Did this on a ski jacket and it came up as good as new.

Should work a treat on the frame without doing any damage to the paint especially if it's enamel.


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## robsa (9 Dec 2014)

Thanks for the tips guys, any ideas on cleaning rust off the rims? They're rusty but not knackered. Ive tried autosol, 0000 wire wool, tin foil not really making much difference even though its not nasty pitting.


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## Tony Raynor (9 Dec 2014)

Well you've tried most tricks. It depends on how thick the rust is. If its thick then you may need to use a brass wire brush to get the majority off. After that tin foil should work a treat


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## robsa (9 Dec 2014)

Thanks guys, 
Oh btw sorry for hijacking the post chris


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## ChrisEyles (10 Dec 2014)

robsa said:


> Thanks guys,
> Oh btw sorry for hijacking the post chris



No problem! Good luck with the wheels 

I've just cleaned out and repacked the hubs on all four wheels. The cups were so crammed full of solid set grease it felt a bit like a mining expedition... but they looked to be in pretty good condition underneath all the gunk.







I needed a lot of this to keep me going






Took me a while, this was the first time repacking a hub for me, and predictably I had extra fun and games with stuck cones and mangled threads on the axles. All four wheels spinning nicely now though.

I was going to start truing the wheels next, but found that the spokes have frozen into the nipples. I am more than a little anxious that after an afternoon spent on the wheels, the spokes are all going to start pinging and the job will suddenly get a lot bigger!

I only have one of these






so can only get half a turn before the tool interferes with the other spokes... guess I need to buy a new spoke key so I can give a couple of full turns to torque the spokes out of the nipples.


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## Dogtrousers (16 Dec 2014)

Love the mug cosy. Just hope you didn't drop any BBs into your tea.


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## mjr (18 Dec 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> To me, a true racing green is definitely darker - this looks more like garden fence green to me! But maybe it will darken a little as it cures... or maybe it will grow on me


Did it darken? I've been surprised by just how bright the cardinal red I'm using is when applied.

And thanks for going first in discovering that the 10°c limit is real - I suspect I would have found that if you hadn't


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## ChrisEyles (18 Dec 2014)

It has only really darkened a touch, but is looking pretty good after a third coat - applied indoors in the warm! The finish is not quite perfect, but I think it would have been near-as-damnit if I'd spent more time sanding the frame down beforehand. 

Pics to come soon - I've been busy with the bikes (with mixed results!) recently


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## raleighnut (18 Dec 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> It has only really darkened a touch, but is looking pretty good after a third coat - applied indoors in the warm! The finish is not quite perfect, but I think it would have been near-as-damnit if I'd spent more time sanding the frame down beforehand.
> 
> Pics to come soon - I've been busy with the bikes (with mixed results!) recently


You could always 'flat it off' then give it a final coat or use 'compound' to get the sanding marks out.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Dec 2014)

So, as I said, I've met with mixed success this week...

Still no joy getting the pedals off the cranks, so I decided to give up and service them still on the cranks instead. The older bike retained an impressive amount of field inside the pedal bearings from its "holiday" in the great outdoors. Everything's soaking away in de-greaser at the moment, but should get to polish everything up and rebuild soon. The newer pedals also now run very nicely after cleaning and re-greasing.

It's amazing how much service-ability is built into these parts - there seems to be a real assumption that you will only ever need this one pair of pedals, even if you keep the bike a lifetime or more. Makes you question the ideology behind the modern counterparts...






I also got three out of four wheels back in good (relatively) true working order... but unfortunately the back wheel of the older bike was not so lucky! The spokes were totally frozen into the nipples, and despite lots of patient soaking/tapping/gripping the spoke with a plier, a lot of them snapped  I still need a tool (or trip to the LBS) to get the freewheel off to remove the drive side spokes.

The rim was in a terrible pringle-shaped state, so at least it was easier to roughly straighten (by stomping on it - good job it's solid steel!) without the hub attached.

The plan is to clean up the rim, sanding off all the rust, and see if it is still structurally sound. If so, do people think a rebuild is something I should hand over to the LBS, or is it worth having a go myself? I must confess to being a bit confused by how to calculate spoke lengths, correct dish etc, and have never even trued a wheel before, let alone built one!




Here's some sneak preview pics of the newer frame after the final coat of paint. I was quite please with the success of the masking tape over the headset and badge, and the general finish - would definitely recommend Rustoleum to anyone considering a brush paint job.

Then the fun bit - detailing the lugs in gold 












I think this broken wheel is going to keep me busy for a little while - if anyone has any thoughts about the best way forward, I'd welcome any advice. The other wheels I was going to sand down and paint. I was going to use Carinal Red a la mjray above, but if it is a very bright "in your face" red I might be better off looking elsewhere.


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## AndyRM (18 Dec 2014)

There is/was a chap on here who was handy with wheels and generously would do the work for the cost of parts, can't remember his handle just now though. Might be an option if you've not got the inclination to build your own?

That frame is looking lovely by the way, and this is easily my favourite build thread on here. Chapeau for your dedication!


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## mjr (19 Dec 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> I was going to use Carinal Red a la mjray above, but if it is a very bright "in your face" red I might be better off looking elsewhere.


I'm hoping it's not that bright (there's a "Traffic Red" too which really is rather bright) but I suspect it's going to be brighter than the original paint job as seen in http://bicyclerecycling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/universal-riviera-sport-mens-bicycle.html which means either going ugly two-tone or a whole decal-removing/replacing job that I wasn't planning on!

Comparing the two pictures makes me think the green darkened enough to give me hope


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## ChrisEyles (19 Dec 2014)

Love the original red colour - much classier IMO than a louder post-box red. Good luck with the paint job!


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## ChrisEyles (8 Jan 2015)

Right, finally back to work on the bikes after a hectic xmas! I was hoping to achieve a little more over the holidays, but parents and in-laws saw to this plan between them (should have known better!).

The newer bike (1950s) is coming along slowly but surely - the BB and headset are now reassembled. However, when I tried putting the wheels back on they looked rather scruffy against the freshly painted frame, so I'm planning on painting the rims and spokes in red to sharpen them up a little.

In the meantime, I've tidied up the handlebars and all the various bits and bobs for the rod brakes. Still got a few spots to touch up, but mostly ready to be rebuilt 





On the older bike, I finally got the seat stays off the frame. The hammer and socket set didn't do the job in the end, so I had to dig out a file and reduce the size of the nut.... twice since it rounded off again on the first attempt! For such a structural bolt, the metal was amazingly soft (easy to file - and round off unfortunately!).





So, once the wheels are painted up, the 1950s bike is almost good to go..... I say almost - it is currently missing a seat (easy enough job) and the front (rod) brake caliper. Let me know if anyone knows where I can get hold of the latter, or even better if anyone has one they could be persuaded to part with!


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## mjr (14 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Love the original red colour - much classier IMO than a louder post-box red. Good luck with the paint job!


Well, I had a bit of a delay while I used a hacksaw to get the guards off (hacksawing the bolt not the bike!) but the paint is all over the frame now. It's not postbox red but I wonder how dark it'll get and it's definitely brighter. Did you find that Rustoleum really needed a week to harden fully, or is the tin conservative? I'm wondering how long to leave it before applying replacement decals and bolting the brakes, guards, bands and rack back on.

What did you use to line the lugs? I've got a gold unipaint pen that I'm going to try after reading the idea on Lovely Bicycle.


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## ChrisEyles (14 Jan 2015)

I waited a full week after painting before any heavy contact on the frame - but then again I am making quite slow progress due to lack of free time, so it hasn't held me back. 

I've just painted the newer set of wheels in Cardinal Red, and they look pretty good (piccies to come after a second coat). Hope you're happy with the finish on your frame, would love to see a pic when you're done  

I used a gold sharpie paint pen, from staples IIRC. I've also done the lugs on my dark red 60s ten speed this way, and it looks pretty good. Its dead easy to do the lug outlining - I've found it doesn't last fantastically well, but touching up is so easy its not a big issue. One tip - the pens work best held vertically (tip down), the tip can go dry if you outline with the pen held horizontal.


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## ChrisEyles (15 Jan 2015)

Red wheels, as promised: 







Just need to buy a couple of replacement bolts that sheared off when I stripped the frame down, and then I can re-assemble 

I'm still missing the front rod brake stirrup - I found a possible replacement part, but not sure if I can make use of it... because I can't seem to remove the old (broken) front brake! It *looks* like once you've loosened the locking nut (not pictured below, I've taken it off) the brake part should slide off the thinner rod (which is attached to the brake lever on the bars). Am I missing something silly here..?


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## mjr (15 Jan 2015)

http://www.cyclesofyesteryear.com/cycleshop/sparepart.htm makes me think you're right that it should slide off but do you need to extract what the nut was on?


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## raleighnut (16 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Red wheels, as promised:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tap the end of the bolt with a hammer to release it slightly but you can bet its rusted solid inside, so a bit of penetrating oil (for a couple of days) and then a blowtorch.................rest and repeat but go gently it doesn't take much to snap the rod when you're trying to free it if you try twisting it to loosen it off.


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## ChrisEyles (16 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions! 

I've already given the bolt a few good solid taps with a hammer, and squirted in some GT85 as suggested - I don't have a blowtorch, but can try over a gas hob, and cross fingers. 

The cycles of yesteryear site looks excellent, thanks for flagging this up. Will probably get some new brake blocks and cotter pins from here.


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## mjr (16 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've already given the bolt a few good solid taps with a hammer, and squirted in some GT85 as suggested - I don't have a blowtorch, but can try over a gas hob, and cross fingers.


I found Halfords (urrrrrgh  ) "Shock and Unlock" (a plusgas rip-off I think, in with the car supplies rather than the cycling stuff) shifted my corroded stem and finally allowed me to straighten the bars and do other maintenance. Better than GT85 but it didn't work on corroded mudguard bolts.

You're very welcome to the cycles of yesteryear. It was my plan B if a suitable hub-geared bike didn't appear on sale.


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## ChrisEyles (16 Jan 2015)

Started putting the bits together - need to go and buy a few more bolts tomorrow to replace some of the ones that sheared.
Getting the wheels to spin freely is a bit of an art, since the hub axles don't have locknuts, but are held in place by the nuts holding the axle into the dropouts.
A little more fettling and it may even get a brakeless gentle test run over the weekend


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## AndyRM (17 Jan 2015)

If I could 'like' that more than once, I would. You've done an absolutely phenomenal job so far, and the end seems in sight.

Are you going to ride it around in an awesome tweed suit smoking a pipe? Because that's what I'd do.


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## ChrisEyles (17 Jan 2015)

Thanks a lot! The only tricky job left to do is to sort the front brake out, but yes, the end is in sight. No rest for the wicked (well, OK, obsessive) though, I'll be starting work on its older brother next! 

I'm already on the lookout for a suitable flat cap and V-neck tank top for the maiden voyage


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## roadrash (17 Jan 2015)

Go on .... you know you want to 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mens-Twee...286160462?pt=UK_Hats&var=&hash=item3cd5de684e


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## roadrash (17 Jan 2015)

you could look like this


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8DTNFnNI0g


excellent work on the restoration by the way


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## ChrisEyles (17 Jan 2015)

roadrash said:


> Go on .... you know you want to
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mens-Twee...286160462?pt=UK_Hats&var=&hash=item3cd5de684e



You're absolutely right - I do!


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## ChrisEyles (17 Jan 2015)

Well, five minutes with a hacksaw, and I've got the offending broken rod brake sleeve off of the handlebars. Just ordering a new set of stirrups and clips now, which should finish the job nicely. 

Also need to choose a seat... what do people reckon?



:







If I went for either of the first two, I'd paint the rails/springs in black to tone them down a bit. I did look at getting a B66, but my eyes are still rolling around on the floor after seeing the price tag... the ones above are all under a tenner.


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## ChrisEyles (17 Jan 2015)

Re the video, I will have to work on the flick of the moustache around 40 seconds in


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## mjr (17 Jan 2015)

Any of the black saddles would look fine. I don't like nose springs but it's your taste that matters!


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## raleighnut (17 Jan 2015)

I like the one on the left.


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## robsa (18 Jan 2015)

Ive got the red/brown one off fleabay for the rudge. The one that was on was a hideous 1970s plastic and foam rubber replacement that looked like a burnt loaf. 
Paid £7 for the red/ brown saddle. Quality of finish is nasty to say the least , its top is made out of what looks like compressed cardboard/fibre a bit like old suitcases used to be made from. Got a coating on that's not quite thick enough to hide the graininess. But like Chris said, when I priced a brooks one up I thought yeah rightoh!
I think with a bit of ninja finger contortion the front spring is removable.
Think I'm going to rub it down smooth and try some dylon shoe dye gloop on it. Cant really grumble for something that cost about the same price as 20 cigs


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## ChrisEyles (18 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the heads up! I've just ordered the black version - hopefully with a bit of shoe polish it will come up looking presentable enough!


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## robsa (18 Jan 2015)

They do look the part and had a ride round on it and not uncomfortable . Just a case of how long till it falls to bits, had to go round it and tighten all the nuts up when I got it.


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## mjr (18 Jan 2015)

Mine has a period-correct-ish sprung gel saddle on it, rather than the horrible original 1991 PVC mattress... sme things are not worth sacrificing for historical accuracy and my backside is one of them!


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## ChrisEyles (19 Jan 2015)

Bah, we're moving house in a couple of weeks and packing has just commenced, so I guess I won't be getting much time to work on the bikes for a while (unless I can sneak in the odd hour ). Hopefully the next time I put up some photos, they will be of the finished bike!


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## paddypete (29 Jan 2015)

roadrash said:


> another way , using a vice and an old socket like this , voila.... a home made cotter press
> View attachment 60377


 if all els fails heats a treat


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## paddypete (29 Jan 2015)

pull out the seat post and see if the rust is bad inside the tube?


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## paddypete (29 Jan 2015)

paddypete said:


> pull out the seat post and see if the rust is bad inside the tube?


 ps,for getting old bb's off,google paddypete1


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## mjr (29 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I waited a full week after painting before any heavy contact on the frame - but then again I am making quite slow progress due to lack of free time, so it hasn't held me back.
> 
> I've just painted the newer set of wheels in Cardinal Red, and they look pretty good (piccies to come after a second coat). Hope you're happy with the finish on your frame, would love to see a pic when you're done


Life intervened so I also waited a full week before heavy contact with the frame but now it's done. I've still got to get the bars and controls back into comfortable positions and I've already muckied the paintwork by riding in today's slush (I did rinse the bike afterwards!) but here's a phone pic from before the ride





(I did move the back wheel back before riding because the chain was far too slack but I only noticed when I looked at the photo  )


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## ChrisEyles (29 Jan 2015)

I like the paint job above! It's come out looking very nice indeed. Did you add the decals yourself afterwards?

Progress has been slow for me recently - we're moving on Saturday:





In between the box packing, I've got the bike nearly ready to go. Apologies for the picture quality, I'll do some proper ones when the dust has settled from moving.












I managed to get the front rod brake working nicely with the new stirrup/caliper I ordered a while ago. Still waiting for brake blocks for the back brake, but may live dangerously and ride the bike over to our new house without anyway (it's all along quiet coutry roads with no real hills on the way).

The new saddle is excellent for the price, and certainly feels a little different to my preferred B17 - BOOOOIIINNGGGG!

Mjray, now you've got me wondering about chain slackness/tension... I've never owned a single speed or hub geared bike, so I've not much idea what I should be aiming for. When I set up the back wheel, I quickly found that the freewheel bound up if the chain was under much tension (possibly compounded by chain ring eccentricity?), but now I'm wondering if I went too far the other way.... is there an easy way to guage this?

Promise to put up some proper pics when the dust has settled from the move and I'm tootling around the countryside in my flat cap


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## robsa (30 Jan 2015)

Chris, if you go on fleabay there's a guy sells fibrax pads for rod brakes think they are £3.50 a pair, I'd sooner buy fibrax than cheap chinese/indian ones that other sellers are trying to hawk for them


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## ChrisEyles (30 Jan 2015)

I've already ordered a set from cycles of yesteryear... they didn't specify the material, so fingers crossed. In the end they weren't as hard to set up as I feared, so can always replace if necessary down the line. I'll see how effective they are on a few test runs first!


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## mjr (30 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I like the paint job above! It's come out looking very nice indeed. Did you add the decals yourself afterwards?


Yes. The downtube and seatpost ones are reproductions for a different bike from the same maker (Universal Super Tracker) and I've put clear tape over the seatpost one because it seems awfully fragile. The top tube ones are cheap name stickers in roughly the same font as the original but without the sun behind them. I've stuck the removed originals to paper and will scan and file them in case I want to get more accurate reproductions made in future but they are very 1980s.


ChrisEyles said:


> Mjray, now you've got me wondering about chain slackness/tension... I've never owned a single speed or hub geared bike, so I've not much idea what I should be aiming for. When I set up the back wheel, I quickly found that the freewheel bound up if the chain was under much tension (possibly compounded by chain ring eccentricity?), but now I'm wondering if I went too far the other way.... is there an easy way to guage this?


Not sure if it's easy but http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html#tension says "adjust the position of the rear axle to make the chain as nearly tight as possible without binding. Notice how freely the drive train turns when the chain is too loose. That is how freely it should turn when you are done, but with as little chain droop as possible" although I simply try to pull the chain down by about half an inch and no more. And yes, chainrings are rarely round. The following section describes roughly how I move the rear axle (waaah, the paint job under the axle nuts is scuffed. Almost no-one will ever spot it but I know I did it  ) I'm no great authority on this because this is my first HG/FG/SS bike for about 25 years!


> Promise to put up some proper pics when the dust has settled from the move and I'm tootling around the countryside in my flat cap


Looking forward to it! It's still very much beanie weather rather than flat cap here


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## ChrisEyles (30 Jan 2015)

Yep, your bike definitely looks like it has arrived fresh from the 80s - I like it! When I'm done with these two, I'm planning on a 1980s FG conversion next, and will definitely have to dig out some appropriate decals. Haha, and I feel your pain over the scuffed drop-outs!

Thanks for the tips and article on the chain tension, I'll have a play with that and see if I can tighten things up a smidge.


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## mjr (30 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Yep, your bike definitely looks like it has arrived fresh from the 80s - I like it!


Oh the originals were far far more tastelessly 1980s! Pastel grey and yellow triangles (honestly, how many people look at a bike and thinks "this needs more grey"?), as seen on http://bicyclerecycling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/universal-riviera-sport-mens-bicycle.html (actually they don't look so bad there in a sunny picture... I disliked them more in reality!)


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## ChrisEyles (30 Jan 2015)

Haha, I take your point! My favourite 80s bike fashion crime is the camo pattern bar tape, usually in day glo colour on black - boring grey would be a distinct improvement there!

I quite like the brighter cardinal red on your frame btw, looks a bit "zingier" than the original colour.


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## robsa (30 Jan 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've already ordered a set from cycles of yesteryear... they didn't specify the material, so fingers crossed. In the end they weren't as hard to set up as I feared, so can always replace if necessary down the line. I'll see how effective they are on a few test runs first!


Rod brakes are pretty bad so anything to help in retardation of 50lb of sit up and beg bike will be needed


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## ChrisEyles (13 Mar 2015)

The 1950s bike is finally properly finished  

I'm pleasantly surprised with the effectiveness of the rod brakes so far, after a few laps around the block - but will avoid taking them out in the wet to be safe (we live at the top of a steep hill!). 

Tomorrow is going to be the first proper outing, weather permitting - I've selected a nice stretch of cycle path along the river down to the coast - Exmouth esplanade will be perfect for a celebratory lap of honour at the end of the maiden voyage  Pics to come if it goes ahead! 

The 1937 bike is still where I left it, in pieces in the corner of the shed... but I've now finished moving house and kitting out my "workshop", so I'm ready to sink my teeth into it! Plus my wife has said no more bikes until I've fixed this one up and got rid of one of the others, which is a good incentive!


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## mrbikerboy73 (13 Mar 2015)

Good work and a great thread too. Enjoy!


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## robsa (13 Mar 2015)

Top work chris any pictures? Ive got the rudge stripped and ready fir paint, bought 2 tins of deco gloss black metal protection from aldi, got good reviews on the net so we'll see how it goes


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## ChrisEyles (13 Mar 2015)

Pics to come, hopefully tomorrow if I get the bike out to the seaside. Otherwise I'll wait for a sunny evening and pootle off for a photo shoot  

Have fun painting your Rudge, hope it comes out nicely! It's supposed to be rather cold around here over the weekend - if it's the same where you are you might want to paint indoors if possible, since I found it was much easier to get a nice finish with the paint in the warm (or at least the not cold!).


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## robsa (13 Mar 2015)

Made a start on the mudguards today, it wazzed it down all morning but dried up 3ish so risked it. Did one outside the garage and one in, as a bit of an experiment. The one I did outside has bloomed quite badly whereas the one in hasn't. Also, id say the paint is more of a charcoal grey than deep black. 
Hohum I'll leave them a few weeks to harden off so I can flat em off and give them a few more coats to see if that darkens them up.
Might get a tin of that rustoleum for the frame. Are you happy with the rustoleum finish on your bike Chris?


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## ChrisEyles (13 Mar 2015)

Nice work! Agreed that its a good idea to leave it a few weeks to harden up before hitting it with the wet+dry and recoating. I also found the rustoleum I used tended to bloom a little in the damp or cold. 

On the whole I'm very happy with the finish on my frame, and would definitely use the same stuff again. It looks a lot better than I thought it would for a brush-on job, though I guess it remains to be seen how durable it is.


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## ChrisEyles (14 Mar 2015)

I managed to get out to Exmouth today - here are some photos 

Heading off from home:






Stopping for a breather along the Exe:





Exmouth seafront:





Sea views:




On the way back home, through the port at Topsham:





Nearly back home! I had to raid the bag in the picture for all the goodies my wife baked last night  




Bonus glamour shot:




I'm definitely feeling it in my legs right now though... Forty miles on a ten speed is one thing, forty miles on a 1950s single speed quite another! 

In spite of that, I was very pleased with how the bike rode. It felt very sure-footed, and trundled happily through the mud, gravel, and potholes of the back lanes and cycle paths en route. The gearing is also rather nice - around 64 gear inches - and allows a comfortable cadence for flat cruising. The frame is perhaps a touch small for me, but not so much that it spoils the ride. Haha, and maybe its just that I'm really not used to riding a single speed, but the few short sharp hills I had to negotiate felt a lot more challenging than usual! 

Time to get back to work on the 1937 bike now.... well maybe after a well deserved tea & cake


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## ChrisEyles (14 Mar 2015)

ps - Just looked at the original thread title - I think this particular Raleigh now counts as rescued


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## robsa (14 Mar 2015)

Chris, that looks absolutely cracking. Nice job.Hope mine looks as smart as that when I'm done.
Btw how did you get on with the saddle??? Any good?


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## ChrisEyles (14 Mar 2015)

Thanks Robsa! Looking forward to seeing some pics of yours when you're done. 

The saddle was unarguably a great buy for the price. It looks cracking on the bike (not at all like the cheap nasty rip-off it is ), especially after a little buffing with some black polish. 

Comfort-wise, I don't really have much basis for comparison... for one thing I've never owned such an upright posture bike before, and for another I've never encountered a saddle I've found seriously uncomfortable (being on the light side maybe helps). I certainly wasn't as comfy on the ride as I would have been on my ten speed (with B17 saddle), but on the other hand I wore regular trousers and didn't get any chafing/numbness, which I guess counts as a success on a forty mile ride. 

Other than that, I enjoyed boinging around and bouncing up and down over the bumps


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## roadrash (14 Mar 2015)

brilliant job on the bike, and cracking photos


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## User42423 (27 Mar 2015)

After closely studying both images, it would appear that the second machine is complete. The first could easily be a breaker!.


ChrisEyles said:


>


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## ChrisEyles (27 Mar 2015)

@User42423, the second machine is currently all sanded down and ready for re-painting when I get the time  It is the more interesting of the two - a 1937 model, with 28" wheels rather than 26", and nice old bolt-on seat stays. 

Unfortunately it also needs its rear wheel rebuilding! It was badly buckled when I acquired it, and I had to cut the spokes out (nipples were rusted solid) to straighten the rim. Needs a trip to the LBS for a bit of advice, hopefully I can just order some new spokes and get cracking!


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## ChrisEyles (27 Mar 2015)

Actually its just ocurred to me it's not quite complete - I assume there would have been a full chain guard, at some stage.


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## ChrisEyles (9 Apr 2015)

I'm planning on starting on the 1937 bike now - first coat of paint is drying in the shed 

The tricky bit will be rebuilding the rear wheel! 

I measured one of the non-driveside spokes that I kept at 304mm. Unfortunately I've snipped all the driveside spokes to get the rim out for straightening (it was badly taco'd beforehand) so can't check these any more! Does anyone know if the spoke length differs from side to side, or should I be good with forty 304mm spokes?


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## ChrisEyles (9 Apr 2015)

Blimey, after a quick look I'm not sure how to remove the freewheel either! 

It looks a bit like this one (only it is an old BSA model): 







I expected nice big slots to fit a removal tool into (or use a punch and hammer on to loosen the freewheel), but these dinky little depressions don't look up to the job :S


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## AndyRM (9 Apr 2015)

Sheldon's your man for some tips: http://sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html


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## ChrisEyles (9 Apr 2015)

Indeed he does - should have read this earlier: 
*
Warning: loosen a freewheel before cutting the spokes to replace the rim*

Oh well.. Chalk that one up to experience! I already tried using a hammer and punch on the small holes, but couldn't get it to budge. 

If all else fails, the back-up (cheat) plan is to buy a new rear wheel (they are surprisingly reasonable from flying pidgeon, £36 for new rear wheel with inner tube and tyre fitted).


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## Esroh (13 Apr 2015)

Chris. I just bought as we call them here a High Nelly and googled for info on restoration. It lead me to this thread. Its been a great read. Looking forward to the 2nd job.


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## User42423 (16 Apr 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Blimey, after a quick look I'm not sure how to remove the freewheel either!
> 
> It looks a bit like this one (only it is an old BSA model):
> 
> ...



Hi Chris. The easiest way I've found to remove this type of 'slotted' free-wheel is as follows:

Acquire the correct free-wheel tool first, remove the outer axle securing nut. Place the removal socket over the axle shaft so the teeth on socket slot in the free-wheel grooves, re-attach the securing nut, & tighten up. Place the wheel upside down (free-wheel lower side) into a work bench vice. Tighten vice jaws around free-wheel socket remover, so it's locked in place. Lean your body over the top (quarter side), grip wheel & gentle rock the wheel side to side. Increase force as required.

The wheel should release after a bit of pressure.

Good luck.


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## ChrisEyles (19 Apr 2015)

While I've been investigating the best way to deal with the rear wheel I've managed to get a couple of coats of paint on the frame. One more coat to go and I'll pop the BB and headset together.





I also had to re-paint the handlebars, which will hopefully look quite smart in satin black. I can't work out if they would originally have had plastic/rubber hand grips - the bar ends have a textured grip surface (which I've not seen on any other set of rod brake 'bars), which suggests to me this might not have been the case.


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## mjr (20 Apr 2015)

Hmmm. The stays come off. I'd be tempted to put a belt drive on it, just to mess with people.


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## ChrisEyles (4 May 2015)

Well, I have been making a little more progress with the bike (still very slowly!) - the headset and BB bearings are back in place, the paint job on the frame is finished, and the rod brake bits and bobs are halfway cleaned up/painted. Pics to come soon! 

I took the old hub and rim into a couple of bike shops to ask if they had a removal tool for the freewheel, and what sort of spokes to buy... and both said the wheel's not worth rebuilding (due mainly to the still-wonky rim). One of the guys saying this owns several rod brake bikes, so I guess knows what he's talking about. So I need to source a new back wheel at least, and possibly a front one too - Flying Pigeon do some suitable ones, but don't have a front wheel in stock at the moment, so I'm still searching around for the cheapest solution! 

I took the finished bike out for a ride with my wife, parents, sister, and brother-in-law today, down to the coast along the Exe estuary - unfortunately it pee'd it down on the way back home, but was still a lovely ride, and I'm very proud of my wife for managing a 42 mile round trip  

Back home, I noticed the wheel bearings have loosened up a little so the cones need tightening up a little - a nice little job for a rainy day!


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## robsa (8 May 2015)

Having a similar problem with my rudge, none of my lbs know how to change the sprocket on the dynohub ,its threaded not held on with a circlip ,its all I need to do before shes done


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## ChrisEyles (8 May 2015)

Well, the frame is all painted up, and the rod brake bits and bobs are all ready to go. Still waiting to hear from flying pigeon to see if they can supply a suitable cheap set of wheels, but really looking forward to putting everything together when I've finally got them in my grubby mitts


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## robsa (9 May 2015)

Here she is


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## mjr (9 May 2015)

That's a big bell but a bit far from the grips for me.


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## robsa (9 May 2015)

50p on car boot,couldnt not buy it for that.
It gets in the way when I flip it over to diddle with the rear stirrup .
Oooer missus


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## ChrisEyles (9 May 2015)

@robsa - very smart indeed, I like it! Looks like a very thorough and well done restoration job. Do you know what the vintage of that one is?


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## robsa (10 May 2015)

Thank you Chris. You've done miracles with those two of yours.
According to the number on the frame of the rudge its 1948. There was also 48 stamped onto the bottom bracket axel as well. The dynohub is dated February 1950 but I think at some stage shes had a major refurb when the wheels and chainguard where replaced, as the front wheel says made in France and it has evidence of having had a full chain case ( there's a groove worn into the back of the drive side crank) fitted .
Like you, I've tried to restore this on a budget. Set myself a target of £50, 
Bought the bike for £20 off fleabay . £15 on paint £7 on saddle £5 on tyre £2 on cotters £5 on a set of transfers £2 on bearings and a couple of quid here and there on odds and sods. So a bit over budget,and by the time Ive managed to get the sprocket sorted ( its worn out and I want to swap it for a 22 tooth instead of the 18 what's on it as Derbyshire is a tad hilly) I'm guessing I will be well over but ,hey ive had an brilliant time restoring it its reminded me of when I used to work in engineering and had job satisfaction


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## ChrisEyles (10 May 2015)

Well done on keeping roughly to budget @robsa! It is definitely a challenge... if you include all the bits and bobs like sandpaper, paint brush and brush cleaner, teflon grease etc etc then I've gone way over budget. This wasn't helped by discovering I needed a new brake stirrup for the finished bike, and now new wheels for the work in progress! Depending on how much the wheels cost, I think it will come in somewhere around the £160 mark for the pair - but at least I'll have plenty of paint, grease, bearings etc left over for future projects. Considering that it's kept me tinkering away for several months now and that the finished bikes are really rather nice, I think it's worth it - and like you say, there's the satisfaction of a job well done at the end  

A 22t rear sprocket sounds like a very good switch. I will probably do the same with the new rear wheel on mine, especially since I'll be keeping it as a single speed. I'm especially impressed with the state of all the chromed parts on your bike, it looks showroom fresh in the pics you posted. Have you put it through its paces on any nice rides yet? Bet you get some appreciative comments when you do! My favourite so far was from a chap on a full carbon blingy racer who shot past, then slowed down to let me catch up. He asked a few questions about the bike and how I did it up, and his end verdict before shooting off agains was: "Lovely bike - but I'm not going to swap!". That's all right though - I'm not sure I would either


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## robsa (10 May 2015)

Cheers Chris ,no not been out on it yet the chain is too long but I'm hoping the bigger sprocket will take up a lot of that. To be honest, the chrome is pretty bad most of it is pitted or worn off , ive polished it with wire wool and autosol then sealed it with danish oil to try and stop the rust breaking out again. Quite pleased with paint job,I used to be an industrial sprayer but have never used rattle cans . Stripped the bike completely down rubbed her down, gave every bit a coat of kurust then 2 coats of deco paint from aldi ( if you see it grab it its damned good stuff) then another 2 coats with rustoleum artists black ( not impressed) ive added a couple of close ups on the chrome, its pretty crappie. Luckily, everything was on the bike and serviceable so that has cut a lot of expense. Going to use this to go on the monsal trail up Bakewell


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## robsa (10 May 2015)

Bike came with this old rack on it. Says midlands sports model, now, do I fettle this up and put it back on or not?


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## ChrisEyles (10 May 2015)

Hmm, I think I prefer the cleaner lines you get without a rack... but if you plan on using the bike a lot and a rack will come in handy, go for it! Should look perfectly smart with a fresh coat of paint on.


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## robsa (11 May 2015)

Had a potter round on the bike as a post rebuild shake down.
Chain is rubbing on the chain guard but I've got that to sort out on account of it being to long.
Weird pptick pptick pptick sound from the back wheel, the flipping inner tube inflator catching a brake block. The handlebars went out of alignment because I hit them with my knees as I turned.
Other than that ran very nicely


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## robsa (11 May 2015)

Had to fashion two brackets up as the backtyre was rubbing on the reflector bolt. Went to car boot on Sunday and saw another mudguard stay for 20p so bought it for spare. Just got round to offering it up along the old one and its about an inch longer so its time to swap .
Lord knows how long its had the wrong one on


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## ChrisEyles (11 May 2015)

Haha, I had a few "moments" when my knees hit the handlebars trying to turn a corner - it is certainly a very different style of riding! 

Good luck with the rest of the fettling


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## ChrisEyles (9 Jun 2015)

Finally making progress with locating some suitable wheels for the 1937 28" Roadster. Flying Pigeon have unearthed an old set for me from their warehouse, needs double checking but hopefully will be good! Just need tyres/tubes (white sidewall, naturally) a sprocket and a new chain and I can finally start the re-build


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## ChrisEyles (3 Jul 2015)

Ebay is nerve wracking! 

But it's worth it this time... I've just managed to get hold of a pair of 28" Westwood wheels for the 1937 roadster  Looks like they will need a touch of surface de-rusting, and possibly new tyres later on down the line, but hopefully they will be in good condition when they arrive (photos looked fine). 

Best of all, the rear hub is a three speed SA, and the front a dynamo hub, supplied with SA front lamp  I'm already planning on getting hold of a nice old quadrant shifter for the top tube, and maybe a rear light too. Then probably a hockey stick chain guard, new outer casing for the original bell, might want to swap the sprocket out for one with a couple of extra teeth... the original budget is toast, but at least the cost is being spread out over a nice long time!


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## robsa (6 Jul 2015)




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## robsa (6 Jul 2015)

Hi Chris, poaching your thread again.
Now, as a discerning man of style and taste I'd like your opinion.
Ive fettled the rack up and refit it.
Do you think it suits or spoils the lines?


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## Drago (6 Jul 2015)

That looks absolutely fantastic!


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## steveindenmark (6 Jul 2015)

Its lovely, but personally, I would prefer a black rack.


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## mjr (6 Jul 2015)

Agree that black rack would be better and I think the light needs to move to the rack strut too. Lines look fine though.


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## robsa (6 Jul 2015)

Thanks guys. @ Steve I think black would be better but that's the closest match to the colour I found on it under 40 or so years of different colours slapped on it


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## robsa (6 Jul 2015)

That light does need moving mrjay .
Guess I'll take it off and paint it black. The light is one ive knocked together using a retro rear light case and I've took the guts out and swapped them for modern led. Total cost £1.49 , thank you Chinese ebay fellers


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## ChrisEyles (7 Jul 2015)

Looking really nice! I'm also thinking the rack would be better in black - in which case I think it complements the bike nicely. I like the back light, no doubt I will be searching for something similar (and possibly picking your brains on the LED replacement!) sometime soon.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jul 2015)

The only thing that worries me is the damage all those clamps for the rack and lights are doing to that lovely paint job.


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## robsa (7 Jul 2015)

Old inner tube cut to size and put in-between clamp and frame dogtrousers


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jul 2015)

robsa said:


> Old inner tube cut to size and put in-between clamp and frame dogtrousers


That's a weight off my shoulders. I shall sleep better tonight.


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## ChrisEyles (2 Aug 2015)

Well, I finally got hold of some nice 28" wheels for the older bike  The rear one has a 3-speed (I guess AW) sturmey archer hub, and the front a dynohub, which is a nice bonus over the previous (dead!) wheels. After a good scrub and a spot of paint they're looking pretty good, though they still need truing up. Can't get the accompanying lamp to work yet, but looks like this is a problem with the lamp connections rather than the hub itself. 

I had more fun and games with cotter pins this weekend. The chainring was quite loose on the axle, and needed a shim... it was rather tricky getting the correct thickness so that the crank would be tight, but the cotter pin would still fit. Once again the vice stepped up to the rescue and it's now "customised" to size with a file. 

Now that I've set the seat to roughly the right height, the frame feels enormous! I can only just stand over the frame, and have to sort of bounce up onto the saddle. Don't know if this was a giant's bike or if that's just how they made them back in the day. 

Next challenge will be setting up the rod brakes. The sleeves are currently frozen onto the connecting rods (and hence unadjustable) so I'll either have to see if they work OK in the current position or come up with an ingenious fix (i.e. wrench them apart as hard as I can!). 













Now I also need to get hold of a shifter for the SA hub - want to try and find a nice top tube mounted quadrant shifter if possible. I never thought these two bikes would turn into such a big project as they have done! Must be a record for the slowest restoration ever (I did up a 70s racer a little while ago and was amazed how simple, quick, and easy everything was), but I *am* looking forward to that first test ride!


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## robsa (3 Aug 2015)

Those wheels look brill Chris keep at it can't wait to see how this one turns out. Think your going to need to do the one foot on the pedal scoot mount with the size of that frame


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## ChrisEyles (3 Aug 2015)

Had a quick look at the headlamp tonight - the problem turned out to be simply the little springy contact underneath the bulb - thanks a lot for the tip @tyred! The light is pretty feeble so the LED upgrad is a definite down the line. 





For an encore I stripped the thread on one of the front axle nuts tightening the hub into the dropouts :S Not sure if it's the nut or the axle tha's stripped (both look OK by eye), but I suspect the axle, which has had quite a lot taken off as flats. Fortunately there should be enough excess thread to pop on a second nut, or replace the stripped nut with a spacer and clamp it down with a new nut. Nothing more frustrating than doing something like that and knowing you've only yourself to blame!


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## ChrisEyles (11 Aug 2015)

I had a proper look at the front wheel yesterday. The axle thread was indeed stripped a little, but fortunately I can get away with putting a spacer over the stripped bit and having the locknut on the good part of the thread - phew! 

I was curious how the dynohub worked, and the axle felt a little gritty, so after a bit of googling I managed to strip it down and get to the bearings. As it turned out, the gritty feeling was coming from the magnet assembly rather than the bearings, so I shoved in some grease... it occurred to me (immediately afterwards!) that this might not have been a good idea if the magnetic permeability of the grease if very low, but hopefully I'll get away with it, and it runs a bit more smoothly now.






I won a quadrant shifter for the top tube on ebay at the weekend, so I'm looking forward to getting the SA hub working properly. I'm also curious about stripping down the SA hub and having a look inside, but since it seems to be working fine as it is I might chicken out for fear of pawls and little springs flying everywhere!

The last big challenge will be getting the front rod brakes to work. The outer sleeve is frozen (I guess rusted) solid onto the handlebar rod, so it can't be adjusted. I tried heating it up with a soldering iron and going at it with a pair of mole grips, but no joy. I'm going to try squirting in a bit of GT85 every day for a couple of weeks and then repeat, but I'm not too optimistic about this working! Plan B is to either drill a second hole in the stirrup at the right height for the brake blocks (although it still wouldn't be adjustable...), or to hacksaw the sleeve off and get a new one (but would have to be very careful about not running into the inner rod).


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## raleighnut (12 Aug 2015)

Here's a video of one stripped, explains why they tick in second gear (direct drive) as well.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6v5K-2zWMI&feature=player_detailpage


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## robsa (12 Aug 2015)

All I did to mine to get it to run lovely was empty a can of wd40 into it rode it round for a couple of mile. Then same again with electrical contact cleaner then about a teaspoon of atf. Like you, I was chicken about striping it!


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## tyred (12 Aug 2015)

It is intimidating stripping them down for the first time but there isn't a huge amount to be afraid of in reality. Just be sure to stock up on Swarfega first 

Saying that, flushing them out with diesel or Wd40 or whatever and then some fresh oil usually does the trick. I believe the best oil to use is monograde SAE 30 engine oil, often found in garden centres sold as 4 stroke motor oil.


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## Chris S (13 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Now I also need to get hold of a shifter for the SA hub - want to try and find a nice top tube mounted quadrant shifter if possible.!



They pop-up on ebay fairly frequently. They've only got a job lot at the moment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-B...ar-Changers-/252053853843?hash=item3aaf949693


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## Chris S (13 Aug 2015)

Sorry, they've also got a single one. At £32 I'd want the bike it came off as well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-S...-Gear-lever-/291535503235?hash=item43e0debf83


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## ChrisEyles (13 Aug 2015)

Thanks for the link @raleighnut, I've always been curious to see how these worked so will definitely check that out.

@robsa, yep, this was the sort of quick and dirty fix I was planning on for now. Eventually I'd like to swap out the 19t sprocket for a 22t one, and when I do that perhaps I'll pluck up the courage to strip the hub down.

@tyred good tip on the four stroke oil, I was wondering what to buy for this purpose since all I have right now is chain oil which I guess isn't quite the thing. I guess the same stuff should also be good for lubricating the BB bearings and front hub?

@Chris S thanks for the link, they do look really nice! I actually just got hold of a shifter today through the post (from ebay). For some reason, they do seem to go for a lot of money (probably all the nuts doing up old bikes like me). Just need to get a pulley and end clamp thingamabob for the cable and then it'll be good to go. 

Unfortunately that front rod brake is still utterly seized up for now.... Will carry on giving it a daily drop of oil while I get on with the remaining little jobs.


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## Chris S (17 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Just need to get a pulley and end clamp thingamabob for the cable and then it'll be good to go.


The pulleys are still in production and they're a lot more reasonably priced:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=sturmey archer pulley&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

You can use any toggle chain regardless of its indicator rod length - it's just different to make adjustment easier but most people don't use it. Adjust the cable so pedalling between second and third doesn't drive the hub and all three gears should select correctly.


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## mjr (17 Aug 2015)

Well yes, you can adjust them that way but it's not as easy (or even possible on newer no-neutral hubs? not that that matters here) and risks the much-criticised slip from third into neutral which seems to make lots of people grind their bits into their saddle.


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## ChrisEyles (17 Aug 2015)

I've got a pulley and cable end clamp sorted now - might need a longer cable since the frame is really rather large! I'll have a go setting it up this week hopefully. 

I managed to get the rear rod brakes working nicely tonight. Unfortunately there is a tiny bit of hop in the wheel which makes the brakes catch once every revolution (I can't get rid of it by truing the wheel), but the brake still functions pretty well. 

That front rod is still not going anywhere... I've tried "tapping" it with increasingly large hammers in addition to the oiling, but it looks increasingly like it will end up being a hacksaw job


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## Herbie (17 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


>




Should.....I love seeing old bikes brought back to life


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## raleighnut (18 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've got a pulley and cable end clamp sorted now - might need a longer cable since the frame is really rather large! I'll have a go setting it up this week hopefully.
> 
> I managed to get the rear rod brakes working nicely tonight. Unfortunately there is a tiny bit of hop in the wheel which makes the brakes catch once every revolution (I can't get rid of it by truing the wheel), but the brake still functions pretty well.
> 
> That front rod is still not going anywhere... I've tried "tapping" it with increasingly large hammers in addition to the oiling, but it looks increasingly like it will end up being a hacksaw job


I'd try a bit of heat on it first, no need to go mad with Oxy/Acetylene though a small blowtorch should be plenty.
As for the ding in the rim, 'they all do that sir' but a bit of emery on the high spot may help or gentle tapping with a small ballpeen hammer on the spot.


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## Chris S (18 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Well yes, you can adjust them that way but it's not as easy (or even possible on newer no-neutral hubs? not that that matters here) and risks the much-criticised slip from third into neutral which seems to make lots of people grind their bits into their saddle.


This is a 1940's restoration project - it won't have a newer no-neutral hub. The original indicator rod seems to be missing. How would you adjust the gears?


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## ChrisEyles (18 Aug 2015)

@Chris S I've got the adjustment rod - it was being kept somewhere "safe" i.e. buried under a heap of junk, but now back on the wheel. I've not set up an SA hub before, so am going to look it up on Sheldon Brown's site, which is usually pretty good for this sort of thing. 

@raleighnut - I don't think emery paper will quite cut it for the bump in the rim, but a tap with a ballpeen hammer might well do the job, good idea. Would it be necessary to loosen off the spokes before doing this do you think? 

I've tried heating up the sleeve with a soldering iron, but no joy. I'll see if I can find a small blowtorch to borrow... it is very frustrating not being able to free up that blasted rod, especially when the rest of the bike is basically finished!


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## tyred (18 Aug 2015)

I use the Sheldon Brown method of having just the slightest amount of movement in the toggle chain when the hub is in 1st gear. Has worked fine for me for thousands of miles.


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## mjr (18 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've not set up an SA hub before, so am going to look it up on Sheldon Brown's site, which is usually pretty good for this sort of thing.


This is one of the few things where I don't like Sheldon Brown's method - using it was the only time I've suffered the dreaded "finding neutral in top" problem. I feel http://workingoncycles.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/raleigh-twenty-sturmey-archer-gear.html is a better way.


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## mjr (18 Aug 2015)

Chris S said:


> This is a 1940's restoration project - it won't have a newer no-neutral hub. The original indicator rod seems to be missing. How would you adjust the gears?


Even if that were the case, I'd try to figure out which is the correct replacement indicator rod based on the axle length. http://www.starcyclespares.co.uk/st...ear-indicator-hsa125-hsa126-hsa315-3282-p.asp for example. They're cheap enough that it's annoying rather than ruinous if you get it wrong once.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Aug 2015)

Thanks for the tip @mjray - I'll have a play with both methods and see what works out. The indicator rod *should* be the correct one for the wheel, as far as I know.


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## tyred (18 Aug 2015)

I know some of my hubs have the wrong indicator rods but never bothered trying to correct it. If you are trying to source one, at a guess I would say a 1940s hub would take whatever is shortest as even bikes built for derailleur gears then were 110 mm dropouts so there would have been no reason for them to be building wide axled hubs.

Edit: Trade bikes could be a totally different kettle of fish, I've never worked on one but perhaps Sturmey made a wide axle hub for them.


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## ChrisEyles (22 Aug 2015)

I finally got around to sorting out the SA shifter this afternoon. I'm not 100% happy with the cable routing, since the pulley I ordered won't fit around the seat tube, only the top tube, but it looks OK and works fine. I used @mjray's method and it worked great. 






Added in the rear mudguard and the whole bike is nearly ready to go  






Just got to sort out that pesky frozen rod brake. I actually just realised that I forgot to tighten up the rear brake rod before testing out the back brakes... they worked perfectly despite this, which I guess must mean that rust is pretty strong! 






I need to get hold of a blowtorch and see if that cracks it... must admit it is a little frustrating being so near and yet so far to being able to take it on it's maiden voyage!


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## tyred (23 Aug 2015)

Looking good.


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## Illaveago (23 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> I finally got around to sorting out the SA shifter this afternoon. I'm not 100% happy with the cable routing, since the pulley I ordered won't fit around the seat tube, only the top tube, but it looks OK and works fine. I used @mjray's method and it worked great.
> 
> View attachment 101258
> 
> ...


If you go using a heat gun or torch I would put a small sheet of steel or ally between the brake rod and the frame to try to protect the paintwork from burning.


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## ChrisEyles (24 Aug 2015)

My dad has a heat gun I could borrow, not sure if this will be quite as good as a blowtorch? I was planning on using some heavily tinfoil coated cardboard between the frame and rod, which should manage the same job.


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## Illaveago (25 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> My dad has a heat gun I could borrow, not sure if this will be quite as good as a blowtorch? I was planning on using some heavily tinfoil coated cardboard between the frame and rod, which should manage the same job.


You could place a damp wrag around the frame as an extra measure. If you do get any movement on the seized nut or whatever don't continue to try to 

Move it in the same direction but to reverse direction, winding back on itself , clean off the thread, apply oil or more heat and try unwinding again.

It is a slow process but if you are careful you can save seized parts. Slowly slowly catchy monkey, was the old saying.


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## Illaveago (25 Aug 2015)

I was wondering if you have tried Hamerite rust removing gel. I have found it to be pretty amazing at removing rust. If you let the stuff soak, rust can be brushed or scraped off quite easily and then washed off.


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## ChrisEyles (25 Aug 2015)

Thanks for the tips @Illaveago, a damp rag is also a good idea. Fortunately I have plenty of left-over paint to touch things up if it all goes wrong! 

Actually the locking nut is already perfectly free to move - it's just the thin rod is rusted solid into the sleeve (which should slid up and down to offer height adjustment of the brake stirrup). This is proving a bit trickier to fix than a bound nut, partly because the gap is really too small to get any oil/gel into and partly because it's very hard to get a good grip on the two pieces to try and twist/pull them apart. Let's hope the heat gun does the job!


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## Illaveago (25 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Thanks for the tips @Illaveago, a damp rag is also a good idea. Fortunately I have plenty of left-over paint to touch things up if it all goes wrong!
> 
> Actually the locking nut is already perfectly free to move - it's just the thin rod is rusted solid into the sleeve (which should slid up and down to offer height adjustment of the brake stirrup). This is proving a bit trickier to fix than a bound nut, partly because the gap is really too small to get any oil/gel into and partly because it's very hard to get a good grip on the two pieces to try and twist/pull them apart. Let's hope the heat gun does the job!


 You do like complicating things dont you! 
Is there a way that you can reove it from your bike by disconnecting it further up allowing you to either let it soak in WD40 or to allow you to hold tight at either end and twist it whilst it is
being heated.


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## raleighnut (25 Aug 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> Thanks for the tips @Illaveago, a damp rag is also a good idea. Fortunately I have plenty of left-over paint to touch things up if it all goes wrong!
> 
> Actually the locking nut is already perfectly free to move - it's just the thin rod is rusted solid into the sleeve (which should slid up and down to offer height adjustment of the brake stirrup). This is proving a bit trickier to fix than a bound nut, partly because the gap is really too small to get any oil/gel into and partly because it's very hard to get a good grip on the two pieces to try and twist/pull them apart. Let's hope the heat gun does the job!


As a sideways fix how would fitting a new set of brake blocks help towards getting a bit less lever travel. As I remember (from the mists of time past) the only time you really needed to reset the rod was if you adjusted the bars. Failing that why not set the brakes by raising and lowering the stem.
just remember "there's more ways of killing a pig than stuffing £5 notes up it's jacksie"


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## ChrisEyles (25 Aug 2015)

Haha, yes I'm afraid I am a champion over-complicator - guilty as charged! 

The "original" height of the handlebars was very high indeed, with less than 1" inside the steerer tube. I don't think this looked safe, so I've lowered it a bit, hence why the brakes need adjusting. Removing the rod from the handlebars is a possibility, (although I had a lot of difficulty with the other bike getting it off and then re-assembled with the spring in place when I did this) and would allow for soaking in WD40... But getting a good grip on the rod will probably be just as hard when it is removed - I have tried numerous pliers, mole grips, vices, but the rust is stronger than all of them so far! 

Different (taller) brake blocks would fix the issue, but only if they were truly enormous, since there is about 1" of travel to make up! I have thought about drilling a new hole into the brake stirrup to move the pads up, but it'd obviously be better to free up the sleeve if possible.


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## ChrisEyles (30 Aug 2015)

Done it!  







The rod just needs straightening up a touch and then everything should be good to go! 

@Illaveago and @raleighnut you were dead right it wasn't that complicated in the end... just stick the rod in a vice and whack the sleeve down to break the seal... I was just reluctant to take the rod off the handelbars because I know getting the little spring back on would be a pest (something to look forward to later on). No blowtorch required in the end.


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## ChrisEyles (30 Aug 2015)

I took the 1950s light roadster out for an adventure yesterday, out down to the coast along the Exe estuary for a little bird watching and then back through the countryside back lanes. Usually I avoid cycle paths and old railway tracks on my rides since they feel a bit bumpy and slow on a ten speed, but I really enjoyed bouncing along the tracks on this bike and it was great to take things at a slower pace for a change. 

The rod brakes got put through their paces with an emergency stop for a suicidal jack russell, and then a both-brakes-jammed-on-and-not-sure-if-it'll-be-enough descent into a gorgeous little village called Otterton. Granted the roads were bone dry, but the brakes were remarkably effective, I'd say almost as good as the centre pull caliper brakes on my ten speed. The back brake did make a heck of a noise though, I guess I need to toe in the pads a bit (I guess this follows the same principle as conventional rim brakes i.e. furthest forward part of the pad closer to the rim?). 






It's always funny how different a reaction you get from other cyclists depending on what bike you're riding... I was firmly blanked by 90% of the roadies who normally oblige with a smile and a "hello" when I'm out on my other bikes, but had several lovely chats with families on their way to the sea-front, and one entertaining one with an old (rather sozzled from the look of it) chap who'd been biking his way down the coast from London, sea fishing at each stop. Also fixed up a little girl's handlebars after she'd twisted them a little in a low-speed dootle into a wall, which is always a nice thing to be able to do. 

I got a bit lost on the way back home, and the planned 50 mile ride ended up at 66 miles (incluing an unplanned whopping great hill) so it's quite possibly the bike's longest adventure in 60-odd years on the road (or languishing in someone's garage more likely). I imagine I'll probably sell this one on at some point, assuming the 1937 roadster lives up to expectations (Mrs Chris informs me I am firmly on W-1 as far as number of bikes go... and I'd like to build up a fixed gear and maybe a mountain bike to play around with too), so it's nice to have had a Summer's riding and a few great rides on it first.


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## ChrisEyles (30 Aug 2015)

ps I've just finished going through this thread and replacing the broken links to pictures (don't know why but there were quite a few)... more for my own satisfaction than anything else, but if anyone else is doing up one of these bikes it might be a handy step-by-step guide!


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## Chris S (1 Sep 2015)

ChrisEyles said:


> The back brake did make a heck of a noise though, I guess I need to toe in the pads a bit (I guess this follows the same principle as conventional rim brakes i.e. furthest forward part of the pad closer to the rim?).


I had a similar problem with my centre-pull brakes. The noise disappeared when I fitted additional space washers on either side of the hub and tabbed anti-rotation washers under the axle nuts. I suspect I hadn't put the wheel in straight, or it had loosened itself slightly under torque.


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## ChrisEyles (1 Sep 2015)

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to have a think about that... the vibrations will be slightly different from those with "normal" rim brakes, since the blocks contact the inner (curved) surface of the wheel rather than the flat edge of the rim. TBH I didn't pay much attention to toe in when I first installed the pads, so hope it will be an easy fix.


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## robsa (2 Sep 2015)

Did you file them in a slight arch to match the rim?


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## ChrisEyles (2 Sep 2015)

@robsa, no, but I found they naturally adopted this profile quite quickly after I'd been out on a few rides and done a few good stops. Once they had done, the stopping power was a lot better, as you'd expect. TBH the pads I'm using seem to be quite soft, they have very noticeable wear after only a few hundred miles (I usually get a couple of thousand out of my commuter's canti brake pads).


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## tyred (3 Sep 2015)

I think the pads available for rod brakes today are mostly junk with an alarmingly short life.


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## robsa (3 Sep 2015)

Got fibrax on mine, they pretty good


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## tyred (3 Sep 2015)

Might try some Fibrax next time I need to buy. I had bought some from Ebay which don't appear to wear very well but I am now the proud owner of a card of NOS Raleigh Raincheaters bought for €2 from a car boot sale 

When I rebuilt my prewar Elswick, the rims were sound and true but very rusty on the brake tracks where the chrome had worn away. I had the bright idea to leave it like that thinking the brakes would work better in the rain. The brakes were absolutely fantastic due to the roughness of the rims but I wore out a set of front pads in a single 20 ride!


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## mjr (3 Sep 2015)

tyred said:


> I am now the proud owner of a card of NOS Raleigh Raincheaters bought for €2 from a car boot sale


Interesting. I've only heard of Fibrax Raincheaters... was it made under Raleigh's brand or was the name generic?


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## tyred (3 Sep 2015)

mjray said:


> Interesting. I've only heard of Fibrax Raincheaters... was it made under Raleigh's brand or was the name generic?



They're just described as Raincheaters. I had always associated that name with Raleigh as if you look at the old Raleigh catalogues the proudly state that their bikes come with Raincheater brake blocks. Even if they were branded by Raleigh, they were most probably made by Fibrax.


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## Illaveago (3 Sep 2015)

tyred said:


> Might try some Fibrax next time I need to buy. I had bought some from Ebay which don't appear to wear very well but I am now the proud owner of a card of NOS Raleigh Raincheaters bought for €2 from a car boot sale
> 
> When I rebuilt my prewar Elswick, the rims were sound and true but very rusty on the brake tracks where the chrome had worn away. I had the bright idea to leave it like that thinking the brakes would work better in the rain. The brakes were absolutely fantastic due to the roughness of the rims but I wore out a set of front pads in a single 20 ride!


 I can remember that you could peel the chrome off when the wheel was rusty. You had to be careful as it could be as sharp as a razor.


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## ChrisEyles (3 Sep 2015)

Yep, I don't think much of the pads I've got at the moment, will be going for some fibrax ones next time. 

Haha, @tyred I like that solution to "upgrading" the braking power


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## mjr (3 Sep 2015)

tyred said:


> They're just described as Raincheaters. I had always associated that name with Raleigh as if you look at the old Raleigh catalogues the proudly state that their bikes come with Raincheater brake blocks. Even if they were branded by Raleigh, they were most probably made by Fibrax.


Ah, it's been a few bikes since I had a Raleigh, but Raincheaters did me good service for many years after that. They're still available  http://www.fibrax.com/rim-pads/road/complete-blocks-TEMP-3433/raincheater-caliper-blocks


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## ChrisEyles (4 Sep 2015)

Just had another quick go at the bike - the front rod brakes are now... well, functioning is probably the right word. Still need to faff around a bit with the clips on the forks to get the pad alignment right, and also badly need to get rid of (or at least reduce) the hop on one point of the rim - it's like having ABS at the moment! 

The front dynohub also has a little more play left in it than I'd like, but as far as I can make out the square tabbed washer thingamabob on the adjustable cone only allows for 90 degree steps in the adjustment, and 90 degrees clockwise causes the hub to bind a little, so I guess I'm stuck with this. 

I also changed the routing of the gear cable so that it follows the lines of the frame much more nicely (needed to prise apart the pulley clamp a bit and use an extra long bolt, but it looks OK). 

No pics just yet since I need to touch up the paint where I've scraped it on the forks and chainstays putting on the rod brake clamps (and all over the place resting the frame against the workbench, misplacing various clamps etc etc). I'll try and get some glamour shots on it's maiden voyage though


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## ChrisEyles (3 Oct 2015)

Well, it's been nearly a year since I picked up these two bikes, but I think they are both finally rescued  

I took out the 1937 one for it's maiden voyage today, a lovely ten mile pootle through the country lanes around our village. When I picked up a bit of speed over some bumpy ground the bike's bell started spontaneously dinging, to me it sounded like it was very pleased with it's new wheels and paint job and all excited to be out enjoying the country lanes again. (I was also quite pleased to be back on a bike myself after a mountain biking crash a couple of weeks ago - though I can definitely feel it in my knee right now).

I had quite high hopes for this one with the larger frame and 28" wheels, and I wasn't disappointed - it rides like an absolute dream. The riding position is markedly more upright than the 26" wheel sports model, which I like, and the beautifully smooth ride makes up for the extra few pounds you can feel you're lugging around. Having a three speed hub totally makes up for the difference in weight, and makes the ride a lot more enjoyable when you hit a hill, and the old style shifter is great fun to use... plus there's that lovely tick-tick-tick in the background. 












Everything's running very nicely indeed so far, just need to tweak the chain tension up a little. The gearing is still a touch high for me, it is basically a two speed with a silly-high top gear at the moment. I think I have a 19t sprocket on at the moment, and will probably treat the bike to a 22t one for xmas - with luck I may even be able to get away with using the same chain. The dynohub and front light are up and running and I've ordered a suitable rear light to wire up as well (since it'll be getting dark pretty early soon and I'd like to take the odd evening ride). An LED conversion may be on the cards later down the line.


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## robsa (3 Oct 2015)

That's a cracking job Chris. Love the top tube quadrant shifter, I want one of those now


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## ChrisEyles (3 Oct 2015)

Thanks @robsa! The quadrant shifters are great aren't they, I definitely prefer them to the modern type shifters for a golden oldie rebuild. They seem to come up on ebay quite regularly (and are easy enough to clean up if they're a bit tatty), although they do see to have kept their value shall we say! 

How are you getting on with your roadster? Would love to see some more pics if you've got any nice ones since the last batch.


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## Gert Lush (3 Oct 2015)

I just had a read of this and it was lovely to watch them go from old to brand new again! 

Congratulations on doing such a good job


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## mjr (27 Oct 2016)

ChrisEyles said:


> Also need to choose a seat... what do people reckon?
> 
> 
> 
> :


Looking back here for something has just reminded me to mention that I've ended up with a mattress saddle on my red bike currently.


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## ChrisEyles (27 Oct 2016)

Nice choice @mjr. I think they look great on the right sort of bike, and they're dead comfy too. 

Having revisited this thread I can give a status update on the two bikes. 

I was planning to sell on the 1950s Sport and keep the '37 Popular.... but once I'd posted the ad on Gumtree (and here on CC, in fact) and took the bike for a quick ride to check all was in working order I felt a little tugging at the heart strings and realised I really didn't want to sell it on. So the '50s Sport has been pootling around the Devon country lanes all Summer and has been a joy to own and ride. So pleased I embarked on the restoration and very grateful for all the help I received on here! 

Although I was intending to keep the '37 Popular, and I suppose it's probably the "nicer" of the two bikes, I never bonded with it in quite the same way as the '50s Sport. Somehow it just wasn't quite as much fun! (maybe this has something to do with the huge wheels.... I really can't get on with 29er MTBs, they feel boring!). So I sold this one on a couple of months ago to a nice chap who's building up a vintage bike collection. He seemed very pleased with it and was talking about stripping down the front dynohub to get the light working at full power again, so I think it's gone to a good home.


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## mjr (27 Oct 2016)

I think I know what you mean about bike fun not necessarily being about how "nice" the bike is. Anyway, here's a pic of the Riv in roughly its current setup with the mattress saddle, crossing the tail sluice earlier this summer after delivering a basketful of referendum leaflets


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## raleighnut (27 Oct 2016)

mjr said:


> I think I know what you mean about bike fun not necessarily being about how "nice" the bike is. Anyway, here's a pic of the Riv in roughly its current setup with the mattress saddle, crossing the tail sluice earlier this summer after delivering a basketful of referendum leaflets
> View attachment 149335


Everybody should have a 3spd SA bike sometime, this is my current one,


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## ChrisEyles (28 Oct 2016)

Just been out for a short ride on the Sports this afternoon. It won't be too long before it'll be too dark to fit in any rides from the front door after work (and in any case rod brakes seem to be at their best outside of the winter months), so thought I'd make the most of finishing early on a Friday  

I've been trying for a while to take some pictures to capture that carefree feeling of trundling slowly along the country lanes, watching the oak and ash roll past and looking up at the starling starting to flock over the fields... these two are the closest I've come yet. but you can tell I'm no photographer!


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