# Cycling Snobs



## utdrd (8 Feb 2010)

I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested. 
I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike. 
I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.


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## Watt-O (8 Feb 2010)

"Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery" - sounds like you're being sucked in, you old inverted snob. ;-)


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## slowmotion (8 Feb 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about. There are an awful lot of cyclists and you can't expect them all to be civil. I don't think it has anything to do with how seriously they take the sport.


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## Moodyman (8 Feb 2010)

It's true my friend. There's an unacknowledged cycling hierarchy.

The road racer types, touring, hybrid and then the ATB cyclist.

The racer thinks he's the bees knees, the touring guy is considered okay cause he cycles for leisure, the hybrid and the ATB get lumped into the 'too poor to drive' catgeory.

In 6 months of commuting 24 miles daily, I've only once been overtaken and that was by an old bloke on a tourer. The amount of road racers that I've overtaken, is countless. I know it's a a generalisation, but a lot of them are just posers.


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## Cubist (8 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.


You're not expecting an answer to this are you, I mean doesn't a Zum have flat bars FFS?


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## Redvers (8 Feb 2010)

I agree with your point about us all having more than enough to contend with arrogant motorists without this silly bike hierarchy.

I like to consider everyone on two wheels to be part of a brother/sister hood even motor bikers.

It does seem to be a UK based thing in my experience. Cycling in Europe a few years ago with a group and some very ropy bikes we had problems with broken spokes, punctures et al and every passing cyclist stopped to lend a hand and no one mentioned the rough state of our kit.


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## Davidc (8 Feb 2010)

You do get them, but most cyclists seem to be OK.

I don't wear 'the gear' either, and ride either a slicked and racked ATB or a tourer. It's surprising how many of those with the expensive and pristine road bikes and all the new looking gear aren't all that fast or fit.

To my mind utdrd you're a far more serious cyclist, using the bike as your main full-time transport, than those you describe (or than me for that matter).


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## marinyork (8 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.



Very similar experiences, except I ride a city bike much of the time. If anything I think cyclechat is less snobby than out there. There are a lot of people who aren't snobby but you're less likely to meet them. Clubs and the CTC seem very snobby to me.


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## Campfire (8 Feb 2010)

Years ago when I was a club rider, racer, roadie, we all used to think people who road sit up and begs weren't "proper cyclists". I was brought up to think that.

Over the last 15 years or so I changed my opinion so much and now don't do much at all, mainly because of circumstances like elderly parents etc, over the last 5 years. However, when I do go out I enjoy it whether it is 5 miles or 25 miles. Sometimes these "not proper cyclists" who are utility cyclists actually do more than some of the roadies as they use the bikes to go shopping, to school, work etc and not just to see how fast they can go.


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## snorri (8 Feb 2010)

Hi utdrd

I think we just have to accept there can be a vast chasm between _serious_ cyclists and _real_ cyclists.


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

I think most of the snobby riders are wannabes. They might have all the gear, but most likely have some sort of deep seated insecurity. Serious cyclists, good club riders, tend to be much friendlier.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2010)

I think you're being a bit sensitive to be honest, so what if you ride a Hybrid, at least it's not an MTB? OK, you just have to get used to being near the bottom of the pecking order and then you'll feel better with yourself.... At least you don't ride a recumbent, so you've still got somebody to look down on.

BTW, not all clubs are snobby, though I can imagine that some are.


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## tightwad (8 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a *windbreaker* of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.



It's not the bike or the shorts, it's the windbreaker. Never seen someone ride with one of these on. Hidden from the wind on a beach using one, but never had the inclination to wear one, let alone cycle in one.


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## ufkacbln (8 Feb 2010)

I look up to everyone - but then again on a recumbent trike I don't have the choice


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> At least you don't ride a recumbent, so you've still got somebody to look down on.



LOL, I almost posted something like that. So true though, you should see the outrage if I pass some rider with pretensions.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Feb 2010)

i live in one of the poorest parts of the country and it's exactly like that here. i love keeping up with poseurs on my brommie!! they don't even acknowledge anything outside their own kind. roadies nod at roadies, mtb at mtb etc etc very very sad. when i travel abroad whether germany canada or poor indonesia it just doesn't exist the same way. a bike is a bike


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> LOL, I almost posted something like that. So true though, you should see the outrage if I pass some rider with pretensions.





It's when you overtake me and my lovely race-bike and you're on roller blaades that I get a bit hacked-off


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## utdrd (8 Feb 2010)

Some great responses on here. Fell about laughing at that one Cunobelin  and the windbreaker crack..top notch


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> It's when you overtake me and my lovely race-bike and you're on roller blaades that I get a bit hacked-off



Oooh, how I wish that were true!!!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Feb 2010)

i've seen a bloke smoking a pipe whilst riding. and there is a local fella that cycles in a pair of wellies and flat cap whatever the weather. he smokes roll ups. slow but steady and he is out in any weather...respect to him not weeken warriors. hehe brownbacks racing has a 'weekend warrior' class


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## ttcycle (8 Feb 2010)

Sound like a bunch of insecure idiots- bike is an extension of their inadequacies.

In all walks of life you'll find snobs - get out on your bike and enjoy it. That's all that matters. 

I own a cheap folder that doesn't leave the house any more but I love that bike as he was what got me into cycling in the first place and I also own a full carbon road bike- doesn't make me a snob though, a tit maybe but not a snob.


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## irontam (8 Feb 2010)

All starting to feel like the class sketch from The Frost Report.


"I look down on him because I wear lycra and ride a bike worth more than a small car."
 "I look up at him because he is cycling upper class. I look down at him as I have an entry level road bike and aspirations."
 "I ride fixed."


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

4. "I ride a recumbent and don't have a sore arse. I'm more aerodynamic than you." [1]

[1] Actually I do, that's because I rode fixed.


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## chap (8 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.




There is a hierarchy amongst cyclists, more of an inverted pyramid. We're all equal, bar those that wear Lycra in the city/town, who rank about 7 stages down from a clown on a collapsing unicycle*.

*Unicyclists, are with the rest of us on the plateau. Cycling is an egalitarian sport and means, only the obnoxious are worse.


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## GrasB (8 Feb 2010)

If you're on a bike & riding sensibly it's all good ignore them.



Davidc said:


> I don't wear 'the gear' either, and ride either a slicked and racked ATB or a tourer. It's surprising how many of those with the expensive and pristine road bikes and all the new looking gear aren't all that fast or fit.


+1 I've only had comments from roadies who have obviously spent a lot of money on their bike & clothes to look like they're good riders but haven't got the legs to back up their pretensions. I've never had a negative comment & only advice from roadies who could keep up with me or drop me, that means a genuinely strong rider.


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## GrasB (8 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> There is a hierarchy amongst cyclists, more of an inverted pyramid. We're all equal, bar those that wear Lycra in the city/town, who rank about 7 stages down from a clown on a collapsing unicycle*.
> 
> *Unicyclists, are with the rest of us on the plateau. Cycling is an egalitarian sport and means, only the obnoxious are worse.


OI! so does that mean for the 1.3 miles of town riding I oft do I'm below a clown...


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## Browser (8 Feb 2010)

I wear lycra 'cos it dries faster than cotton if it there's a rain shower when I'm out riding, I bought it from Aldi.
I got a Ventura jacket 'cos it fitted me nicely, not 'cos I wanted to pay that much for a jacket (believe me, it _hurt_ when I keyed my pin into the machine!).
I'm going clipless 'cos I use toeclips at the mo and thought I might as well (alright , I admit it, plus the w**k value   )
I'm getting a new bike come June as my employer is part of the Cycle2Work scheme, it's not often the gevenment let you have _anything_ tax free and I feel like indulging myself for once.
The only cyclists I would look down on are ninjas 'cos they give the rest of us a bad name, and persistent RLJ-ing, on/off-the-pavement I-can-ride-where/when-I-like-the-rules-don't-apply-types for the same reason.
That aside, come one come all  I'd love to see 50% of the current motoring traffic of this country on bikes, you'd soon see some better road surfacing going on!


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## Tollers (8 Feb 2010)

Cycling is a surprisingly exclusive sport and this sort of snobbery is commonplace. It even spills onto t'internet where bikeradar has an excusive pinarello feel. Rather than see it as a bad thing, I tend to see it as a raisin d'être for cyclechat. This place is pretty open and welcoming and has created the most fantastic cycling site in the whole wide world web. I love you guys. Give me a hug.


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## gavintc (8 Feb 2010)

Get over yourself. Do you honestly think that they are looking down at you. I think you have issues and have not learnt to respect the serious roadie with appropriate attitude and deference.


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## Browser (8 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> Get over yourself. Do you honestly think that they are looking down at you. I think you have issues and have not learnt to respect the serious roadie with appropriate attitude and deference.




Feck off lycra lout!


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## ttcycle (8 Feb 2010)

Love to you Dude!!!CC has got to be one of the most welcoming places around.



Tollers said:


> Cycling is a surprisingly exclusive sport and this sort of snobbery is commonplace. It even spills onto t'internet where bikeradar has an excusive pinarello feel. Rather than see it as a bad thing, I tend to see it as a raisin d'être for cyclechat. This place is pretty open and welcoming and has created the most fantastic cycling site in the whole wide world web. I love you guys. Give me a hug.


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> Get over yourself. Do you honestly think that they are looking down at you. I think you have issues and have not learnt to respect the serious roadie with appropriate attitude and deference.



I 'kin know they are looking down at me!!!!


Talking about which, I pulled off the funniest bit of abuse I've managed for a while at Critical Mass. I come up next to some chap on a Challenge Seiran recumbent and shout "OI, you want to get a flag riding that BLOODY INVISIBLE deathtrap!" He turns round, looking extremely indignant, and then realises I'm talking from below him on my lowracer. LOLOL!


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## gavintc (8 Feb 2010)

Browser said:


> Feck off lycra lout!



And you can take your baggy shorts and your silly helmet peak ram them into your suspension. Have you not heard of Rapha - for god's sake.


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## BentMikey (8 Feb 2010)

Baggy shorts? They are known as modesty shorts, for people with little self confidence.


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## montage (8 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Love to you Dude!!!CC has got to be one of the most welcoming places around.



obviously never been in a brothel then


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## ttcycle (8 Feb 2010)

Dearest montage..some of us don't need to pay for attention or sex...

Widely OT don't you think?


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## StuAff (8 Feb 2010)

Tollers said:


> Cycling is a surprisingly exclusive sport and this sort of snobbery is commonplace. It even spills onto t'internet where bikeradar has an excusive pinarello feel. Rather than see it as a bad thing, I tend to see it as a raisin d'être for cyclechat. This place is pretty open and welcoming and has created the most fantastic cycling site in the whole wide world web. I love you guys. Give me a hug.



I post here, on YACF, and BR (mainly in their Commuting sections, also in Road, no idea about MTB). I've met lovely people (IRL) from all three. Now, there are quite a few snobs over there, particularly the roadies (frenchfighter, the fanatical LA-hater, springs to mind) but many, many more aren't, including the roadies. NapD (who also posts over here) springs to mind. I don't know about the 'exclusive Pinarello feel'. Anyway, Pinarellos aren't even properly Italian, frames are made in the Far East!!  One of the guys I know from BR has a Pinarello Prince. Not a snob, except when he's being thoroughly tongue-in-cheek. I might get wind-ups from him and others about my 'clown bike', about putting SPDs on the Viner...but they're jokes. Ditto the public-school educated young lady I know with a Viner Maxima. Despite the cut-glass accent, anything but a snob....I could go on. CC is indeed a lovely welcoming place, but that doesn't mean the other places aren't.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2010)

StuAff said:


> I post here, on YACF, and BR (mainly in their Commuting sections, also in Road, no idea about MTB). I've met lovely people (IRL) from all three. Now, there are quite a few snobs over there, particularly the roadies (frenchfighter, the fanatical LA-hater, springs to mind) but many, many more aren't, including the roadies. NapD (who also posts over here) springs to mind. I don't know about the 'exclusive Pinarello feel'. Anyway, Pinarellos aren't even properly Italian, frames are made in the Far East!!  One of the guys I know from BR has a Pinarello Prince. Not a snob, except when he's being thoroughly tongue-in-cheek. I might get wind-ups from him and others about my 'clown bike', about putting SPDs on the Viner...but they're jokes. Ditto the public-school educated young lady I know with a Viner Maxima. Despite the cut-glass accent, anything but a snob....I could go on. CC is indeed a lovely welcoming place, but that doesn't mean the other places aren't.



Burn the heretic...


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## skudupnorth (8 Feb 2010)

Well thats me in with the bottom feeders then,i ride both a Hybrid and an MTB.....feel free to slap me with a wet kipper when you see me on the road or playing in some mud 

Would'nt worry too much about the snobs,if you enjoy cycling then thats the main thing and this site is a non -snob zone....life is good


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## dave r (8 Feb 2010)

The question I would ask is where has this snobbery come from? I am old enough and have ridden long enough to remember when there was no snobbery, we were all just cyclists. For some reason it seems to have crept in over the last few years.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2010)

dave r said:


> The question I would ask is where has this snobbery come from? I am old enough and have ridden long enough to remember when there was no snobbery, we were all just cyclists. For some reason it seems to have crept in over the last few years.



Thing is though dave r, maybe you, like me, can remember a time when there were no MTB's and no hybrids... and we had nobody to point and laugh at...


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## Theseus (8 Feb 2010)

irontam said:


> All starting to feel like the class sketch from The Frost Report.
> 
> 
> "I look down on him because I wear lycra and ride a bike worth more than a small car."
> ...



*Ouch*


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## StuAff (8 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> Burn the heretic...



Jehovah!!!!


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## brokenbetty (8 Feb 2010)

I am a reverse bike snob. I think it's a reaction to the cycle to work scheme cos everyone at work has a new bike now.

Also, I don't want to be outclassed by my own equipment. I want my riding to make crap bikes look good, not vice versa


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## dave r (8 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> Thing is though dave r, maybe you, like me, can remember a time when there were no MTB's and no hybrids... and we had nobody to point and laugh at...



Yes I remember the days before mountain bikes, The Sunday club run often included rough stuff, and great fun it was to. But I don't remember ever pointing and laughing at someone else's bike, if it's different to mine I tend to be just curious about it.


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## slowmotion (8 Feb 2010)

dave r said:


> The question I would ask is where has this snobbery come from? I am old enough and have ridden long enough to remember when there was no snobbery, we were all just cyclists. For some reason it seems to have crept in over the last few years.



When owning a bike became some kind of "Life-style Statement"?

When a pair of pants became a "base layer"?

When a glass of water became a "hydration system"?


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## StuAff (8 Feb 2010)

dave r said:


> Yes I remember the days before mountain bikes, The Sunday club run often included rough stuff, and great fun it was to. But I don't remember ever pointing and laughing at someone else's bike, if it's different to mine I tend to be just curious about it.




Whatever bike I'm riding, I'll smile or nod at fellow cyclists, and acknowledge their hellos, whatever they're riding. I can't help finding people trying to use BMXs as a form of transport, or spinning madly at 5 mph, or bouncing along perfectly smooth roads because they're on a BSO 'suspension' bike, rather amusing....but at least they're on bikes and not in cars, and I certainly wouldn't ridicule them. I get regular 'wisecracks' from people when I'm out in cycling kit, but it says more about them than me (usually they're outside, or going to, a pub, and clearly not in decent physical shape).


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## dave r (8 Feb 2010)

slowmotion said:


> When owning a bike became some kind of "Life-style Statement"?
> 
> When a pair of pants became a "base layer"?
> 
> When a glass of water became a "hydration system"?



Sounds like the lunatics have taken over the asylum.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Feb 2010)

dave r, a taste of the good old days...

http://www.tudorsports.co.uk/

We didn't need no stinkin' lycra, hydration systems or gel bars...


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## totallyfixed (8 Feb 2010)

The standard of the rider I find is inversely proportional to the amount of bling lycra they are wearing.
Sportives tend to be good for spotting the full pro team lycra look-a-like.


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## MacB (8 Feb 2010)

Out in the real world I couldn't give a stuff, a bike gets me from A to B or takes me on pleasant social rides, that's all that matters.

On the internet it's different entirely, especially when you're starting out. The snobbery and prejudices are a pain in the butt when you're trying to get advice/opinion. It takes a while to understand all of this and learn to avoid advice from numpties with no knowledge but a lot of ideas about how you should ride Thankfully there are some great sites around that give a lot of good info and explode some of the myths.


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## Jezston (8 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> dave r, a taste of the good old days...
> 
> http://www.tudorsports.co.uk/



Ooh need to get me one of those tops! Nice!


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## Jezston (9 Feb 2010)

Conversely, I'm finding myself experiencing another form of cycling snobbery.

I commute daily on a hybrid - but thats not the issue. Me wearing my shiny reflective top, hi-vis bag cover, goretex trousers - I'm considered 'uncool' by the skinny jeans hooded top wearing fixed gear retro-bike trendies around nottingham. Hell - saw a facebook group some of my friends have joined and they even look down on using BRAKES!

I can understand the appeal of fixies commuting in a reasonably flat area, and some of those trendy fixies are seriously pretty - but nottingham is a pretty lumpy city, fixed gear really isn't practical round here.


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## eldudino (9 Feb 2010)

I think we're all forgetting something.... is utdrd a *SERIOUS* cyclist? 


If only there was someone here who could answer that question.


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## g00se (9 Feb 2010)

Jezston said:


> Conversely, I'm finding myself experiencing another form of cycling snobbery.
> 
> I commute daily on a hybrid - but thats not the issue. Me wearing my shiny reflective top, hi-vis bag cover, goretex trousers - I'm considered 'uncool' by the skinny jeans hooded top wearing fixed gear retro-bike trendies around nottingham. Hell - saw a facebook group some of my friends have joined and they even look down on using BRAKES!
> 
> I can understand the appeal of fixies commuting in a reasonably flat area, and some of those trendy fixies are seriously pretty - but nottingham is a pretty lumpy city, fixed gear really isn't practical round here.



Don't worry - those 'fakengers' are the butt of the jokes and distain from the bike messengers.


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## hackbike 666 (9 Feb 2010)

dave r said:


> The question I would ask is where has this snobbery come from? I am old enough and have ridden long enough to remember when there was no snobbery, we were all just cyclists. For some reason it seems to have crept in over the last few years.



Just the last few years and peoples attitudes.I used to go out of my way to speak to people...now I don't bother...although if people say something to me I try and be friendly.

I have been blanked too many times.


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## marinyork (9 Feb 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Just the last few years and peoples attitudes.I used to go out of my way to speak to people...now I don't bother...although if people say something to me I try and be friendly.
> 
> I have been blanked too many times.



I thought you'd been cycling 40 or 50 years, what sort of time period does the last few mean?


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## manalog (9 Feb 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Just the last few years and peoples attitudes.I used to go out of my way to speak to people...now I don't bother...although if people say something to me I try and be friendly.
> 
> *I have been blanked too many times*.



I too found this to be the case. As a beginner I was very friendly and was unaware of this snoberry and try to acknowledge other Cyclists. Funny enough I normally get blanked by people on MTBs and Hybrids! Yes I do ride a full carbon bike and only say hello/nod if they initiate it.  If you see me all Lycrad out riding a Focus Cayo well I am not a snob other Cyclist made me look like I am if you know what I mean. just wave/nod and I won't blank you,honest


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## Browser (9 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> And you can take your baggy shorts and your silly helmet peak ram them into your suspension. Have you not heard of Rapha - for god's sake.



Errr, no, I haven't


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

Rapha? For the most part that's what wannabes wear.


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## DJ (9 Feb 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Just the last few years and peoples attitudes.I used to go out of my way to speak to people...now I don't bother...although if people say something to me I try and be friendly.
> 
> I have been blanked too many times.





Agree.


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## I am Spartacus (9 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.


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## utdrd (9 Feb 2010)

Good question eldudino.....am i a *SERIOUS* cyclist? Hell no, I'm generally a *happy fun seeking* cyclist going to and fro minding my own business (for the most part) but I just thought I'd comment on my recent observations which may be erroneous. OMG I might even be an inverted snob . I love to see people cycling about and experiencing the highs (beautiful days, fresh air) and lows (biting cold, wind and rain) of this mode of transport but do find the snobbery aspect inherent in some cyclists' attitudes to be churlish yet at the same time amusing to behold.


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.

It surfaces at gatherings involving non-cyclists and its the "I ride a bike so I'm superior, fitter and more environmentally conscious than the rest of you" lifestyle statement.

It has a totally negative inpact on non-cyclists' view of cyclists.

When challenged it often turns out that the perpetrators are the high cost bike, got all the gear, weekends in summer when it's not too hot and it's dry mob that were mentioned above.


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## SimonC (9 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.



Did this really happen, ten riders pulling up and passing round energy drinks and protein bars?? Sounds like the Famous Five on an cycle outing, either that or invented b****cks.


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## SimonC (9 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.
> 
> It surfaces at gatherings involving non-cyclists and its the "I ride a bike so I'm superior, fitter and more environmentally conscious than the rest of you" lifestyle statement.
> 
> ...



No snobbery here then davidc?


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

SimonC said:


> No snobbery here then davidc?



No. Look the word up Simon.


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## SimonC (9 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> No. Look the word up Simon.



"There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.

It surfaces at gatherings involving non-cyclists and its the "I ride a bike so I'm superior, fitter and more environmentally conscious than the rest of you" lifestyle statement.

It has a totally negative inpact on non-cyclists' view of cyclists.

*When challenged it often turns out that the perpetrators are the high cost bike, got all the gear, weekends in summer when it's not too hot and it's dry mob that were mentioned above.*"

There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.

Its the "I ride a bike in all weathers, not just at weekends, so what do you know" statement.

Snobbery, or inverted snobbery??


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## Twenty Inch (9 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> Burn the heretic...


Yeah, he's only got 230 posts, fricking wannabe newbie....

Utdrd, best response is to keep up with them. I ride a variety of bikes. When I'm on the MTB, roadies don't say hello. When I'm on the road bike, MTB-ers don't say hello. When I'm on the folder, no-one says hello and I get raced by BSO/BMX kiddies.

It's a reflection of how materialistic, atomised and status-obsessed our society has become, unfortunately. We're all looking for what distinguishes us from other people, rather than looking for what we have in common.


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## gavintc (9 Feb 2010)

I have been a member of 2 clubs over the last 5 years. I can honestly state that I have not come across kit snobbery to the extent implied here. Indeed, if you turn up in a new Rapha/Assos top you are more likely to be ribbed gently than if you turn up in a new Endura top. Newcomers are encouraged and assisted and nobody expects them to have the latest bike. I also know that most have an MTB / hybrid as their commuter / town bike and people generally acknowledge that some bikes are more suitable for some tasks.


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## Watt-O (9 Feb 2010)

Twenty Inch said:


> Yeah, he's only got 230 posts, fricking wannabe newbie....
> 
> Utdrd, best response is to keep up with them. I ride a variety of bikes. When I'm on the MTB, roadies don't say hello. When I'm on the road bike, MTB-ers don't say hello. When I'm on the folder, no-one says hello and I get raced by BSO/BMX kiddies.
> 
> It's a reflection of how materialistic, atomised and status-obsessed our society has become, unfortunately. We're all looking for what distinguishes us from other people, rather than looking for what we have in common.



It's a hard life ain't it TwentyInch! We all like to think we are different or unique, yet we all fall into neat little groups. A right bleedin' paradox that,


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

SimonC said:


> "There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.
> 
> It surfaces at gatherings involving non-cyclists and its the "I ride a bike so I'm superior, fitter and more environmentally conscious than the rest of you" lifestyle statement.
> 
> ...



I can't find that one. It isn't part of my observation, which is free from any and all snobbery or inverted snobbery.

Do try to read other peoples posts properly before making stupid responses which contain silly inaccurate assumptions.


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## Debian (9 Feb 2010)

Can't say I've experienced or dished out snobbery of any sort.

But privately I am amused at those who wear pro-team look-alike lycra gear, although I've not noticed it so much lately. When I used to see someone in a Liquigaz or similar outfit I always formed an image of ghost rider who got lost during one Tour de France and has been cycling ever since trying to catch up.


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## SimonC (9 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> I can't find that one. It isn't part of my observation, which is free from any and all snobbery or inverted snobbery.
> 
> Do try to read other peoples posts properly before making stupid responses which contain silly inaccurate assumptions.



So its not implied in your statement

*When challenged it often turns out that the perpetrators are the high cost bike, got all the gear, weekends in summer when it's not too hot and it's dry mob that were mentioned above.*

Whatever.....it doesnt matter......you arent a proper cyclist anyway.


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## alecstilleyedye (9 Feb 2010)

Tollers said:


> Cycling is a surprisingly exclusive sport and this sort of snobbery is commonplace. It even spills onto t'internet where bikeradar has an excusive pinarello feel. Rather than see it as a bad thing, I tend to see it as a raisin d'être for cyclechat. *This place is pretty open and welcoming and has created the most fantastic cycling site in the whole wide world web.* I love you guys. Give me a hug.



was it cash, cheque or paypal?


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## Rob3rt (9 Feb 2010)

I havent encountered any "snobs", Ive been grunted at once by a lycra clad guy ona high end specialized, but that was not because he was an arse, it was because I didnt filter to the front at the lights (because I was unsure of where I was going and didnt want to commit to taking position) and he took dislike to it.

When I go out, I find a lot of the serious looking roadie riders nod etc, I passed what looked like a club run in stockport the other week, at least 3-4 of them nodded. I thought it was cool, since I was riding along on my fixed in my denim shorts etc and expected to be shunned as some sort of hipster.I have no cycle specific clothing bar my cycling shoes.


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## Wheeledweenie (9 Feb 2010)

People like that just make me laugh. I wear lycra because I find it comfortable but none of it matches.

At least two guys on my commute wear race kits and they look ridiculous as they're continually p*ssing both cyclists and drivers off with their arrogant and reckless behaviour. 

Cycling should be for everyone and everyone should be free to cycle how they want (obviously as long as it's safe etc) and I would like to think if I turn into that kind of person someone would tell me.


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## eldudino (9 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> Good question eldudino.....am i a *SERIOUS* cyclist? Hell no, I'm generally a *happy fun seeking* cyclist going to and fro minding my own business (for the most part) but I just thought I'd comment on my recent observations which may be erroneous. OMG I might even be an inverted snob . I love to see people cycling about and experiencing the highs (beautiful days, fresh air) and lows (biting cold, wind and rain) of this mode of transport but do find the snobbery aspect inherent in some cyclists' attitudes to be churlish yet at the same time amusing to behold.



That wasn't a slight against you utdrd, there used to be a regular poster on here that didn't like anybody unless he deemed them a serious cyclist. I found it somewhat strange. I'm the same as you, I say hello to other cyclists whether I'm on my MTB or my road bike, though I do tend to find that I get more responses from roadies than from people utility cycling.


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

eldudino said:


> That wasn't a slight against you utdrd, there used to be a regular poster on here that didn't like anybody unless he deemed them a serious cyclist. I found it somewhat strange. I'm the same as you, I say hello to other cyclists whether I'm on my MTB or my road bike, though I do tend to find that I get more responses from roadies than from people utility cycling.



Wasn't his name Simon something?


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## Goldfang (9 Feb 2010)

Twas' ever thus! In my cycling club days in Essex thirty odd years ago there were clubs like ours with a cross section of people, some in to racing some in to touring and sunday club runs, some just in to having a good time. There were the purist racing clubs or teams, often sponsored that used to look down on the rest of us, our suday club runs ended up at a pub or 'caff', theirs were 'fast training runs' complete with following sag wagon.
Having got that off my chest, cycle snobbery has never been much of a problem in this area, probably because hardly anyone sems to ride a bike!


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2010)

Jezston said:


> Ooh need to get me one of those tops! Nice!




I had a nice red one... 









in 1984


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2010)

Jezston said:


> I can understand the appeal of fixies commuting in a reasonably flat area, and some of those trendy fixies are seriously pretty - but nottingham is a pretty lumpy city, fixed gear really isn't practical round here.



I'd disagree with the last statement. Fixies are pretty good in hilly environments too, in fact over rolling terrain I'd say a fixie is almost better than geared. Nottingham would be fine. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true, fixed-wheelers climb really effectively, but you'd have to try one to be convinced.

Regarding brakes, I still had both brakes on mine, seemed stupid not too... but then they weren't fashionable when I first had mine, they were just the winter training/low maintainance version of your summer bike.


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> When challenged it often turns out that the perpetrators are the high cost bike, got all the gear, weekends in summer when it's not too hot and it's dry mob that were mentioned above.



Yeah, but I'm still quite a nice person when you get to know me...


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> I have been a member of 2 clubs over the last 5 years. I can honestly state that I have not come across kit snobbery to the extent implied here. Indeed, if you turn up in a new Rapha/Assos top you are more likely to be ribbed gently than if you turn up in a new Endura top. Newcomers are encouraged and assisted and nobody expects them to have the latest bike. I also know that most have an MTB / hybrid as their commuter / town bike and people generally acknowledge that some bikes are more suitable for some tasks.



This is absolutely my club experience as well. All that matters is you put the effort in. No more, no less.


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'd disagree with the last statement. Fixies are pretty good in hilly environments too, in fact over rolling terrain I'd say a fixie is almost better than geared. Nottingham would be fine. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true, fixed-wheelers climb really effectively, but you'd have to try one to be convinced.
> 
> Regarding brakes, I still had both brakes on mine, seemed stupid not too... but then they weren't fashionable when I first had mine, they were just the winter training/low maintainance version of your summer bike.



+1


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## Fab Foodie (9 Feb 2010)

Debian said:


> Can't say I've experienced or dished out snobbery of any sort.




You need to try harder...


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## J4CKO (9 Feb 2010)

Its human nature, we like to feel superior and this is exaggerated when in a group and feeling secure, conversely when an individual is presented with said group sometimes feels on the defensive and may read more into gestures and verbal exchanges than was actually implied, humans arent perfect in terms of what they say and how it sounds to others.

I am not sure of my position in the cycling heirachy, have only had a few roadies ignore me, but them so have other commuters.

Sometimes I feel under-equipped on my Cannondale Bad Boy Hybrid 700 when I see someone on asomething more expensive, when I speak to the bloke at work on a ratty Heinz 57 MTB with a knackered bottom bracket and a general air of shoot-heap about it I feel overprivileged.

I have a Specialized Allez Elite on CTW waiting for some better weather, again, will feel well pleased with myself and its sexier than most bikes, but ineviatably I will bump into the Pinarello rider at work and feel inadequate, mainly cos he is way faster, the Pinarelo rider will get looked down upon by the BMW owner, the BMW owner by the Porsche owner etc etc.

I go in our LBS and see some very expensively kitted persons, generally though they arrive by car, put the bike in the car never to be seen again on the roads of Cheshire.

Mountain Bikers are pretty bad as well, even my mate, he mentioned going to Morzine and I said I wouldnt mind going but he put me off by saying my bike wasnt up to it, I knew this being an old, rather knackered Carrerra from Halfords and I said my CTW was due up so I might buy a new MTB, apparently a thousand pounds isnt even entry level for Morzine, never mind all the rest of the kit, two grand minimum for a Downhill "Rig", its always a "Rig", never a bike and I wouldnt keep up and probably die anyway cos he is hardcore, yawn, its riding a pushbike down a hill, you go as fast as your equipment and bottle permit, you can still have fun without spending 5 grand on kit, honest.

Lycra is great, Decathlon bib tights and shorts are not any sign of elitism, not for £24 or less they arent.

Its just so complicated and so doesnt matter, just enjoy the ride


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## joebingo (9 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> Mountain Bikers are pretty bad as well, even my mate, he mentioned going to Morzine and I said I wouldnt mind going but he put me off by saying my bike wasnt up to it, I knew this being an old, rather knackered Carrerra from Halfords and I said my CTW was due up so I might buy a new MTB, apparently a thousand pounds isnt even entry level for Morzine, never mind all the rest of the kit, two grand minimum for a Downhill "Rig", its always a "Rig", never a bike and I wouldnt keep up and probably die anyway cos he is hardcore, yawn, its riding a pushbike down a hill, you go as fast as your equipment and bottle permit, you can still have fun without spending 5 grand on kit, honest.



The 'Rig' thing applies to hardcore PC gamers too - I always found it a funny phrase to use. It seems that a lot of people seem to relish in the exclusivity of being part of a group of people with the latest greatest gear. If you're not involved, then how dare you try and talk to them.

That's fine by me, I know I can ride, and that I ride what I'm comfortable with, in clothes I'm comfortable in and I didn't have to remortgage the house to afford it.


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## J4CKO (9 Feb 2010)

My mate confessed to me also that he had a "Trail Name", i.e. something he liked to be called by his MTB buddies when doing some gnarly, sick, radical type shoot and getting some big air on the Singletrack, kind of forgivable for those in their teens early twenties but a little tragic when knocking 40 when you should know better 

Also, there seems to be some kudos expected by the MTB fraternity when they break something, its like they are telling you how committed they are by the mess they make of their expensive gear, which always has a slightly rude sounding name like "Stiffee" or "Spunk", my neighbour does it, well into his forties and tells me how he has to replace almost his entire bike after each ride as he is so hardcore and the dust mixed with chain lube is like "Grinding paste", actually he says each "Season" he replaces his drivetrain at £500 and expects me to be impressed, I just say there is no season and I like to make mine last indefinitely with careful maintenance and mechanical sympathy.


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## irontam (9 Feb 2010)

Cycling to work this morning on my old fixed, wearing scruffy shorts, beanie etc. When one of these lycra clad types on a fancy bike came sailing past me! Even had the audacity to say "hi" to me!

That snob!


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## swee'pea99 (9 Feb 2010)

Have to say I've never encountered any of these problems - I suspect we Londoners are so uncommunicative that we don't get any opportunity to express (or be subjected to) snobbery. In any case, there's always one sure solution - go faster than them. It's really hard to look down on someone when you're looking at their bum. Works for me.


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## Rob3rt (9 Feb 2010)

Anyone read The Escape Artist by Matt Seaton, where he says that shaving your legs is like making the decision of declaring yourself a real cyclist. Maybe back then in his day (and some of you members in their 30's and 40's), that was the point in which elitism was established (those that shaved their legs were proper cyclists and those that didnt, werent) as opposed to todays more consumer driven society where the clothing and bike price is the point people think makes them a proper cyclist. Who actually cares who is a 'proper' cyclist?

If someone thinks they are better than you, good for them, let them get on with it, it makes them happy, something else makes you happy!


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

As far as I'm concerned you're a proper cyclist as soon as you cycle.


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## joebingo (9 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> As far as I'm concerned you're a proper cyclist as soon as you cycle *on a bicycle which cost more than a harrier jump jet.*



fixed.


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

SimonC said:


> *So its not implied in your statement*
> 
> *When challenged it often turns out that the perpetrators are the high cost bike, got all the gear, weekends in summer when it's not too hot and it's dry mob that were mentioned above.*
> 
> Whatever.....it doesnt matter......you arent a proper cyclist anyway.



No. The logic of the original statement specifically precludes it. The meaning of the original statement is also precise and well defined.

A proper cyclist is anyone who rides a cycle. The terminology you're looking for is serious cyclist, conventionally used to describe those cyclists who train to a competitive level, and no I haven't been one of those for about 33 years.


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## Debian (9 Feb 2010)

J4CKO said:


> Mountain Bikers are pretty bad as well, even my mate, he mentioned going to Morzine and I said I wouldnt mind going but he put me off by saying my bike wasnt up to it, I knew this being an old, rather knackered Carrerra from Halfords and I said my CTW was due up so I might buy a new MTB, apparently a thousand pounds isnt even entry level for Morzine, never mind all the rest of the kit, two grand minimum for a Downhill "Rig", its always a "Rig", never a bike and I wouldnt keep up and probably die anyway cos he is hardcore, yawn, its riding a pushbike down a hill, you go as fast as your equipment and bottle permit, you can still have fun without spending 5 grand on kit, honest.
> 
> Its just so complicated and so doesnt matter, just enjoy the ride





joebingo said:


> .
> 
> That's fine by me, I know i can ride, and that I ride what I'm comfortable with, in clothes I'm comfortable in and I didn't have to remortgage the house to afford it.



I LOVE these comments, they're so true!



J4CKO said:


> My mate confessed to me also that he had a "Trail Name", i.e. something he liked to be called by his MTB buddies when doing some gnarly, sick, radical type shoot and getting some big air on the Singletrack, kind of forgivable for those in their teens early twenties but a little tragic when knocking 40 when you should know better
> 
> *Also, there seems to be some kudos expected by the MTB fraternity when they break something, its like they are telling you how committed they are by the mess they make of their expensive gear*, which always has a slightly rude sounding name like "Stiffee" or "Spunk", my neighbour does it, well into his forties and tells me how he has to replace almost his entire bike after each ride as he is so hardcore and the dust mixed with chain lube is like "Grinding paste", actually he says each "Season" he replaces his drivetrain at £500 and expects me to be impressed, I just say there is no season and I like to make mine last indefinitely with careful maintenance and mechanical sympathy.



This applies to other areas as well. One that springs to mind is the 4x4 fraternity of which I'm part, although much less so these days. I used to go competition trialling and still have one of the vehicles.

Anyway - look on any 4x4 forum and there'll be loads of people saying they broke this, that or the other expensive bit of their modified 4x4, or that they got so stuck it took 4 hours and two winch vehicles to get them unstuck. Same principle - you weren't doing it properly unless you broke something! 

Well I never subscribed to that view either. If I broke something I either wasn't driving properly or I hadn't maintained something properly. If I got stuck then I wasn't driving or anticipating properly. If I broke nothing and didn't get stuck I was very pleased with myself, however there were always the tits who would say I wasn't trying hard enough!


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## HJ (9 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.



Club riders, scum of the earth, all the gear and no idea


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## eldudino (9 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> As far as I'm concerned you're a proper cyclist as soon as you cycle.



Unless it's on the pavement!


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## slowmotion (9 Feb 2010)

Well, I know where I am in the pecking order. I ride a hybrid, and _everybody _overtakes me. I hope that makes you all feel a whole lot better. {Sniff}

Bastards....


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## jonny jeez (9 Feb 2010)

When I was a small lad, my Dad brought home a works vehicle.

He was in some secret squirrel arm of the Met Police at the time (carried a firearm and such like).

The vehicle was an "old" ford transit with mis-matched wheels (front and back) rust, dents and dull grey (off white) paint job.

Inside (under the skin) the van was kitted out like a bond villans lair, with stainless steel sheeting (blast/bullet proof) tons of listening and snooping devices, cameras and and a small locked arsenal (empty at the time). 

It was a whirr of beeping and blipping with subtle red lighting to adjust your night vision and hidden under the bonnet was a vamped up engine that could hurl the whole thing down the road quicker that the ford cosworth...alledgedly


I was amazed

and to this day remember the thrill of knowing what was really hidden under the fake exterior.

I dream one day of replicating this with Me & Chitty "scalping" a bunch of arrogant riders as they scoff at "that weekend warrior and his dusty old Mountain bike".....


one day


one day.....


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## mcshroom (9 Feb 2010)

Well at least I'm not alone then. 5 passed me yesterday (and there aren't many bikes on my commute). When I'm struggling up a hill and someone glides passed looking like they're hardly working it really knocks the motivation out of me for a bit. 

Still, I haven't been passed by my jogger friend for a few months now


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

eldudino said:


> Unless it's on the pavement!



Err no, even then still a proper cyclist.


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## dellzeqq (9 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> I have been a member of 2 clubs over the last 5 years. I can honestly state that I have not come across kit snobbery to the extent implied here. Indeed, if you turn up in a new Rapha/Assos top you are more likely to be ribbed gently than if you turn up in a new Endura top. Newcomers are encouraged and assisted and nobody expects them to have the latest bike. I also know that most have an MTB / hybrid as their commuter / town bike and people generally acknowledge that some bikes are more suitable for some tasks.


I'd second that. I used to get a bit of a ribbing about my road bike from my CTC confreres, but that faded when they couldn't find anything to criticise - although they still take some pleasure at my obvious discomfiture off road. 

I'm trying to think of occasions when I've been riding one kind of a bike and thought 'I woudn't have had that kind of reaction on the other bike'. I can recall when I first got the C40 (now cracked and retired) and riders on my commute would say nice things, but that's not a bad thing - it was simply because the Lovely Lucia was such an exquisite piece of work. I can, however, remember being asked to park the hybrid outside a famous London bike shop when I'd been greeted as 'sir' the previous week.s

And there was the incident that provoked such a big row on ACF. Our CTC group was overtaken by a rider in Pearsons strip and he didn't say hello. I chased him down and he blew up trying to chase me - which allowed the entire group (most over 60 years old) to catch up with him at the traffic lights. He wasn't happy.


----------



## trustysteed (9 Feb 2010)

dellzeqq said:


> Our CTC group was overtaken by a rider in Pearsons strip and he didn't say hello. I chased him down..



why?


----------



## rh100 (9 Feb 2010)

The world is full of tw*ts

unfortunately some of them cycle as well

you can't assume lycra clad are all that way. I had a great day out last summer not long after starting on my halfords special - a whole group of lycra clad roadies went past - all saying a hello. Several others on the same day did the same.

fixing a puncture on a country lane a female roadie stopped and offered help.

I'll take each person as they come, regardless of what class of cyclist they appear to be. Ain't life too short for it?


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

rh100 said:


> The world is full of tw*ts
> 
> unfortunately some of them cycle as well



Cyclists are as diverse as the population in general, so we should expect to come across all sorts, and yes rh100, some are tw*ts! Fortunately most aren't.

My experience has always been that a large majority are pleasant, polite and helpful. I think it could be that people on bikes are generally less stressed than many others - at least while they're riding.


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## trustysteed (9 Feb 2010)

i just wonder why people spend so much time worrying about other cyclists not saying hello. do you say hello to everyone you walk past just because they're also walking? do you wave to everyone else in their cars when you're driving? no, because everyone would think you're a nutter.

why do people suddenly think that because they're on a bike, they are suddenly special enough to be acknowledged by other cyclists?

just ride your flipping bike and enjoy your own ride. you weirdos.


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## BentMikey (9 Feb 2010)

It's very sad to think that people might not want to say hello when riding on a bike, or when walking for that matter. Poor us, and poor society.


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## brokenbetty (9 Feb 2010)

Debian said:


> I LOVE these comments, they're so true!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hee hee - you think that's bad, you should talk to mountainboarders. You have to break YOURSELF before you count as serious.

Though I do think if I spend a day on the snowboard or mountainboard without falling it means I'm spending too long in the comofrt zone. But they are a different sort of sport, and very fall-y


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## SimonC (9 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> *No. The logic of the original statement specifically precludes it. The meaning of the original statement is also precise and well defined.*
> 
> A proper cyclist is anyone who rides a cycle. The terminology you're looking for is serious cyclist, conventionally used to describe those cyclists who train to a competitive level, and no I haven't been one of those for about 33 years.



Maybe in your head, in reality no.


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## threebikesmcginty (9 Feb 2010)

I'm not really bothered about all the 'cyclier than thou' attitudes - if I do get blanked, etc. I couldn't give a monkeys. If I get a hello back then there's the warm cosy glow of the bond of cyclists. 

Some you win and some are complete tossers who should rot in hell!


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## Jezston (9 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'd disagree with the last statement. Fixies are pretty good in hilly environments too, in fact over rolling terrain I'd say a fixie is almost better than geared. Nottingham would be fine. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true, fixed-wheelers climb really effectively, but you'd have to try one to be convinced.
> 
> Regarding brakes, I still had both brakes on mine, seemed stupid not too... but then they weren't fashionable when I first had mine, they were just the winter training/low maintainance version of your summer bike.



I realise I probably shouldn't have said that, what with never having ridden one 

I think I'm still sore after my bike got nicked and my trendy neighbours with their vintage fixies got left alone!


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## GrasB (9 Feb 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'd disagree with the last statement. Fixies are pretty good in hilly environments too, in fact over rolling terrain I'd say a fixie is almost better than geared. Nottingham would be fine. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true, fixed-wheelers climb really effectively, but you'd have to try one to be convinced.


+1 the biggish inclines around here I find the fixie is the fastest bike up them... but not down them.




> Regarding brakes, I still had both brakes on mine, seemed stupid not too... but then they weren't fashionable when I first had mine, they were just the winter training/low maintainance version of your summer bike.


 Nothing beats a front stopper with attitude & a rear brake is a useful thing to have as well..


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## fossyant (9 Feb 2010)

I'll say 'ello to anyone, be it on the custom road bike, or the MTB (especially when overtaking a road bike going up hill, flinging mud off having just come off a path  )....


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## DJ (9 Feb 2010)

There is a worse form of cycling snobbery.

Its the "I ride a bike in all weathers, not just at weekends, so what do you know" statement.

Snobbery, or inverted snobbery??[/QUOTE]




I would call this positive snobbery and justifiable rather than the "weekend warrior',look how much my bike cost" types who are counter productive and put people off!


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## Davidc (9 Feb 2010)

SimonC said:


> Maybe in your head, in reality no.



Ah well, never mind, shame you can't follow simple english &/or statement derived logic, but that's your problem, not mine.


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## Browser (9 Feb 2010)

I just think that there are a minority of people who never grow up from the school playground, staements like "how many gears has your bike got? Ten! That's crap, mines got fifteen!". Apply this to anything new you bought, theirs would always be better. They just get older and better funded


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## threebikesmcginty (9 Feb 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> The vehicle was an "old" ford transit ... and hidden under the bonnet was a vamped up engine that could hurl the whole thing down the road quicker that the ford cosworth...alledgedly



Used one of them on a job (work not nickin') in London years ago - it had a Ford V6 engine - S.H. 1 T. off a shovel!


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## Two mile commute (9 Feb 2010)

threebikesmcginty said:


> I'm not really bothered about all the 'cyclier than thou' attitudes - if I do get blanked, etc. I couldn't give a monkeys. If I get a hello back then there's the warm cosy glow of the bond of cyclists.
> 
> Some you win and some are complete tossers who should rot in hell!


+1


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## Arch (9 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc.



That just makes me laugh. Those things cost a fortune. I do all my cycling fuelled by pasta, cake and tea, which are very cheap, and readily available at millions of stockists nationwide (and world wide, should I wish to venture abroad).



> The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.



He can't think much of himself, if he needs a high end bike under him to make him look good....

If a roadie sneered at me, I'd think, well, you may have the better bike, but did you build your own front wheel? No? ha! beat you!

(ok, I've only ever built the one, but hell, I did it, and it's still true enough, about 5 years later)


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## threebikesmcginty (9 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> If a roadie sneered at me, I'd think, well, you may have the better bike, but did you build your own front wheel? No? ha! beat you!
> 
> (ok, I've only ever built the one, but hell, I did it, and it's still true enough, about 5 years later)



Is it a knitted one?


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## rh100 (9 Feb 2010)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Used one of them on a job (work not nickin') in London years ago - it had a Ford V6 engine - S.H. 1 T. off a shovel!



but nothing is faster than an Astravan - especilally with ladders and stuff on the roof. try racing one


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## Twanger (10 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> That just makes me laugh. Those things cost a fortune. I do all my cycling fuelled by pasta, cake and tea, which are very cheap, and readily available at millions of stockists nationwide (and world wide, should I wish to venture abroad).



What kind of tea and cakes do you find fuels you the best? Do you find you turn the pedals best with Earl Grey and petit fours, or green tea and carrot cake, or do you go for the raw, throbbing power of PG Tips and jam doughnuts?


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## MacB (10 Feb 2010)

not sure where I fit in, fuelled by pepsi max, guiness and JPS, maybe just 'misfit' applies


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Feb 2010)

I go for Belgian (Trappist pref.) beer and Bara Brith at 'tea stops' myself, supping on the road from a camelbak, with the odd puff on me asthma inhaler to keep me going. Oh, and my road bike has disc brakes. Obsessed with staying hydrated and stopping when I want to, of course I don't fit in. Not sure I want to either.


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## chap (10 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Those things cost a fortune. I do all my cycling fuelled by pasta, cake and tea, which are very cheap, and readily available at millions of stockists nationwide (and world wide, should I wish to venture abroad).




Run, run little rabbit, for soon our two worlds shall collide 

P.S. Afternoon Tea or G&T, both are rocket fuel for me*!

*If any of you are law enforcement jobsworths, or from our current ruling political Party, G&T means Gingerbread and Teacakes.


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## Arch (10 Feb 2010)

Twanger said:


> What kind of tea and cakes do you find fuels you the best? Do you find you turn the pedals best with Earl Grey and petit fours, or green tea and carrot cake, or do you go for the raw, throbbing power of PG Tips and jam doughnuts?



I'm mostly a PG Tips and proper cake devotee. Proper cake is any sort of sponge - victoria, chocolate, coffee... lemon drizzle if I feel the need for vitamins. Carrot cake isn't really cake, it's salad. Sometimes a toasted teacake, or scone. 

I have friends who are devotees of all sorts of fancy teas, and whenever I go over for the evening, they ask me what I'd like and I always say, a little feebly, have you got any _normal_ tea?

Which reminds me, why do Marxists drink herbal tea? Because proper tea is theft.

Chap: 

BTW, at work we sometimes buy some flapjacks to have at lunchtime. One day, someone bodged saying it, and now we always have Jackflaps, which sounds unutterably rude.


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## Arch (10 Feb 2010)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Is it a knitted one?



No, but maybe I should knit some aero discs for it....


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## jimboalee (10 Feb 2010)

It started early on.

If you didn't have a Starley & Co. Rover, you were a nobody.


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## chap (10 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Chap:




That is it, a man has his limits! To York!


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## Arch (10 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> That is it, a man has his limits! To York!



Excellent, I'll put the kettle on. On that teeny bike in your post, I'll expect you sometime in 2014....


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## Piemaster (10 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> I'm mostly a PG Tips and proper cake devotee. Proper cake is any sort of sponge - victoria, chocolate, coffee... lemon drizzle if I feel the need for vitamins. * Carrot cake isn't really cake, it's salad.* Sometimes a toasted teacake, or scone.
> .



 Now that is worth noting as a sig of the future.


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## Twanger (10 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> I'm mostly a PG Tips and proper cake devotee. Proper cake is any sort of sponge - victoria, chocolate, coffee... lemon drizzle if I feel the need for vitamins. Carrot cake isn't really cake, it's salad. Sometimes a toasted teacake, or scone.
> 
> I have friends who are devotees of all sorts of fancy teas, and whenever I go over for the evening, they ask me what I'd like and I always say, a little feebly, have you got any _normal_ tea?
> 
> ...



I thought you were sound! Good!


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## Arch (11 Feb 2010)

Piemaster said:


> Now that is worth noting as a sig of the future.





The upside of course, is that it's also a portion of vegetables towards your five a day.


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## Davidc (11 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> The upside of course, is that it's also a portion of vegetables towards your five a day.



But so are the rasins or sultanas in your toasted teacake or scone aren't they?


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## Arch (11 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> But so are the rasins or sultanas in your toasted teacake or scone aren't they?



Oh yes. 

Now, who hasn't heard my theory of how a chocolate eclair counts as four portions?

(flour comes from wheat - a vegetable. Chocolate comes from a bean, a vegetable. Butter and cream both come from grass....)


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## Keith Oates (11 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Oh yes.
> 
> Now, who hasn't heard my theory of how a chocolate eclair counts as four portions?
> 
> (flour comes from wheat - a vegetable. Chocolate comes from a bean, a vegetable. Butter and cream both come from grass....)



They go through one heck of a change process before arriving as butter or cream which also leads to the question why are they not green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Davidc (11 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Oh yes.
> 
> Now, who hasn't heard my theory of how a chocolate eclair counts as four portions?
> 
> (flour comes from wheat - a vegetable. Chocolate comes from a bean, a vegetable. Butter and cream both come from grass....)



No, butter and cream are definitely disallowed!

Tea ought to be a portion though (1 per mug), it's made from dried leaves.

the other thought is that you like sweet things (like cake) and sugar comes from one of two plants, so does it count?


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## Black Sheep (11 Feb 2010)

I get people being snobish at my mountain bike (on-one inbred) for one of three reasons

1) its a hardtail
2) they've never heard of on-one
3) its converted to singlespeed so i must be too poor to afford gears (had the funds for disc brakes or gears so opted for brakes and quite liked singlespeed) 

they then have some respect for me when I either keep up with them round the off road loop, bomb it down the decent quicker than them or beat them up a climb. 

its not what you ride, its how you ride it. 

i get similar reactions about my road bike as its a 60's carlton badly sprayed orange and running about 6 and a half gears. 

i'm still quick (was before i took to driving everywhere due to it breaking)


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## Arch (11 Feb 2010)

Davidc said:


> No, butter and cream are definitely disallowed!
> 
> Tea ought to be a portion though (1 per mug), it's made from dried leaves.
> 
> the other thought is that you like sweet things (like cake) and sugar comes from one of two plants, so does it count?



God, how could I forget the sugar!


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## Sam Kennedy (11 Feb 2010)

Closest thing I've had to snobbery was someone who said 'I like your sponsored by Aldi approach', he was obviously kidding, then when I looked up we were wearing the same Jersey that was on sale the previous week


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## chap (11 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Excellent, I'll put the kettle on. On that teeny bike in your post, I'll expect you sometime in 2014....




Not if I pedal to the rhythm of my beating heart 



Damn, I'm good, almost passable for an Italian.


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## Arch (11 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Not if I peddle to the rhythm of my beating heart
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I'm good, I'll have to don a chest wig and perm my hair or something.



<Ahem>

Come closer....

No, closer... That's it...

<whisper, very quietly in your ear>

It's pedal, not peddle....



Chest wig? <shudder>


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## chap (11 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> <Ahem>
> 
> Come closer....
> 
> ...




Peddle? Only notes of love for you, my sweet! 

Thank you CycleChat for the gift of the Edit function, less so for the ability to quote 


Ah, you don't dig Chest hair, well at least that's one expense (of time and money) that I can forgo, all the more for Afternoon tea


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## Armegatron (12 Feb 2010)

Sam Kennedy said:


> Closest thing I've had to snobbery was someone who said 'I like your sponsored by Aldi approach', he was obviously kidding, then when I looked up we were wearing the same Jersey that was on sale the previous week



 Me too! Gloves, jacket, sunglasses, t-shirts all Aldi


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## thegrumpybiker (12 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Peddle? Only notes of love for you, my sweet!
> 
> Thank you CycleChat for the gift of the Edit function, less so for the ability to quote
> 
> ...



Get a room!


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## trustysteed (12 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> It's pedal, not peddle....



he may be a tinker, arch, selling pots and pans. it's not ALWAYS about the bike!


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## Debian (12 Feb 2010)

mike.pembo said:


> Me too! Gloves, jacket, sunglasses, t-shirts all Aldi



Lidl here - jacket, sunglasses, panniers, polypropylene inner, padded shorts. 

Just bought a new set if panners from Lidl as well. £15 and seem pretty well made. If they last the three years that my existing Lidl panniers have done (and still going strong despite abuse) I'll be well pleased!


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## Sheffield_Tiger (12 Feb 2010)

Snobbery does exist everywhere despite trying to repress it or ignore it. Most on here, me included, comment on BSOs etc.

There's a bloke who I see regularly, or at least his bike, as he goes into the same Tesco as is on my route to work. It's a "Seasure" folding mountain-style bike (not as bad as the folder in my other thread as it doesn't pretend to be something its not, basic functional equipment rather than novelty-looking stuff that doesn't work)

Fitted with an old-fashioned front basket the guy gets his daily shopping, hangs it on the front and pedals off in all weathers.

Is he riding a BSO? - well, yes, many would term it a BSO
Is he a "proper cyclist"? - daily use of the bike to get around - of course he is a "proper cyclist"

I make the assumption from his bike that he doesn't do anything other than commute, but then, he could have a £5000 machine wrapped in cotton wool at home for weekend use, who knows? More to the point,does it matter?


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## gouldina (12 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Snobbery does exist everywhere despite trying to repress it or ignore it. Most on here, me included, comment on BSOs etc.
> 
> There's a bloke who I see regularly, or at least his bike, as he goes into the same Tesco as is on my route to work. It's a "Seasure" folding mountain-style bike (not as bad as the folder in my other thread as it doesn't pretend to be something its not, basic functional equipment rather than novelty-looking stuff that doesn't work)
> 
> ...



My mother-in-law gets all her bicycles from the municipal dump. It's amazing what people will throw away. She's in her late sixties but I promise you she cycles more than most cyclists less than half her age and in all weathers. She's virtually the definition of a proper cyclist in my book.


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## gouldina (12 Feb 2010)

Debian said:


> Lidl here - jacket, sunglasses, panniers, polypropylene inner, padded shorts.
> 
> Just bought a new set if panners from Lidl as well. £15 and seem pretty well made. If they last the three years that my existing Lidl panniers have done (and still going strong despite abuse) I'll be well pleased!



I bought some Lidl cycling tops recently. They're ace and super cheap.


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## Armegatron (12 Feb 2010)

Debian said:


> Lidl here - jacket, sunglasses, panniers, polypropylene inner, padded shorts.
> 
> Just bought a new set if panners from Lidl as well. £15 and seem pretty well made. If they last the three years that my existing Lidl panniers have done (and still going strong despite abuse) I'll be well pleased!



Oooh yes, I forgot I have the panniers


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## Black Sheep (12 Feb 2010)

to be honest, surely there is just two types of cyclist

cyclist and sport cyclist

cyclists use their bikes as trasnport, sports cyclists use them for leisure, sport, competition etc. 

within both there are disciplines, utility cyclists using them for work, eg bakefiets. sports cyclists disciplines are well known, cyclo, track, tri, mountain etc.

not sure where recumbents fit in so I'm just gonna make a seperate catagories for speed freaks / nutters


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## GrasB (12 Feb 2010)

black sheep, you've missed a whole class of rider though... I'm a sports rider who uses his bike for commuting & utility runs (less so now I'm doing a weekend group ride). So where does that put me?


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## Fab Foodie (12 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> black sheep, you've missed a whole class of rider though... I'm a sports rider who uses his bike for commuting & utility runs (less so now I'm doing a weekend group ride). So where does that put me?




Err... near Cambridge perchance?


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## Arch (12 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Peddle? Only notes of love for you, my sweet!
> 
> Thank you CycleChat for the gift of the Edit function, less so for the ability to quote
> 
> Ah, you don't dig Chest hair, well at least that's one expense (of time and money) that I can forgo, all the more for Afternoon tea



Very sensible, battenberg over chest hair anytime.

Oh no, that sounds too sticky...

Black Sheep: recumbent riders? Comfort seeking fun lovers!

Also, the trike has a major advantage. When I stop for a picnic, I have a chair!


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## chap (12 Feb 2010)

Cycling is a brilliant pursuit, hobby, means of transport, cargo... i.e. it is very versatile and multi-faceted. The sooner we stop seeing ourselves as one homogenised group the better we shall be. If one wishes to sport Lycra, by a feather-light bike and in general look ridiculous, then they have no right to look down upon another who wishes to dress sensibly on their commute (racing bike or no racing bike.)

Then again, snobbery is a human trait that is hard to quell, people love to feel good about their-selves; those lacking esteem, motivation, or discipline generally prefer to feel good at the expense of others, and usually from something which is merely coincidental or loosely associated. This is a perfect launch-board for snobbery.

Ultimately, the snob has little to be snooty about, or proud of.


----------



## Debian (12 Feb 2010)

gouldina said:


> I bought some Lidl cycling tops recently. They're ace and super cheap.



Generally quite good quality stuff from Lidl I find.


----------



## chap (12 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Very sensible, battenberg over chest hair anytime.



My kinda gal


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## barney magrew (12 Feb 2010)

I am giving my age away but Alf Tupper is one of my heros the tough of the track,basic gear never done him any harm showed the snobs up for what they are posers.


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> If one wishes to sport Lycra, by a feather-light bike and in general look ridiculous, then they have no right to look down upon another who wishes to dress sensibly on their commute (racing bike or no racing bike.)


It's your choice to wear lycra or not & either camp has no real justification for looking down on the other camp, but I also find that a lot of people who are into cycling in a big way but don't wear lycra see it at some kind of status symbol that they're not, this in it's own way is snobbery. 

I personally find it interesting that everyone I know who rides a reasonable distance in non-lycra clothes always complains about the bad weather & being cold, getting wet etc. not only that but they also have to change into their work clothes anyway once they reach their destination anyway. Where as everyone I know who doesn't wear 'sensible clothes', ie lycra & other cycling specific clothing, tends to say there's no real problem with it being wet, cold or well much else unless they miss-judge the weather. So I would argue in lycra being the right temp, comfortable & able to ride faster for the same effort level that I'm in the sensible cloths & those in their civvies are the ones who are dressed inappropriately for their task.


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

I rode 5 miles yesterday in the following:

Craghopper trousers, waterproof overtrousers, tee shirt, aldi long sleeved top, fleece top, waterproof coat, fleece hat, two pairs of socks, steel toed boots, wool magic gloves and heavy duty rubber work gloves over them.

That's just normal workear, and I was riding the company Maximus.

Today, I'll take my hack out round town, in jeans and tee shirt and fleece.

Tomorrow, if it's not tipping it down, I'll don the full kit, and take the trike for a spin... Que sera, sera, vive la difference etc...


----------



## al78 (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> I rode 5 miles yesterday in the following:
> 
> Craghopper trousers, waterproof overtrousers, tee shirt, aldi long sleeved top, fleece top, waterproof coat, fleece hat, two pairs of socks, steel toed boots, wool magic gloves and heavy duty rubber work gloves over them.
> 
> ...



Wow, I'd melt if I wore all that.

If it is below 4C I will wear an ordinary pair of trousers one pair of socks, short sleeved base layer, sweatshirt, cycling jacket, fleece hat and a pair of gloves. Even then I will often arrive at work sweating if it is above freezing.

I do tend to generate a lot of heat when I cycle (not necessarily because I am pushing hard).


----------



## Debian (13 Feb 2010)

al78 said:


> Wow, I'd melt if I wore all that.
> 
> If it is below 4C I will wear an ordinary pair of trousers one pair of socks, short sleeved base layer, sweatshirt, cycling jacket, fleece hat and a pair of gloves. Even then I will often arrive at work sweating if it is above freezing.
> 
> I do tend to generate a lot of heat when I cycle (not necessarily because I am pushing hard).



+1

I too tend to get very warm when cycling. During the coldest bits of the last few weeks I wore the following on my commute:

T-shirt
Fleece
Thin jacket
Reflective vest

Baggy shorts over padded pants.
"football" socks
trainers

Thin Thinsulate cap
Thinsulate gloves
Helmet

Inevitably, even at -6 C or whatever it was at it's coldest I would arrive sweaty and with soaking wet hair due to the cap. Just too cold around the ears to do without it though.

As soon as it got up to zero C I ditched the cap and jacket and reverted to ankle socks.


----------



## mikeitup (13 Feb 2010)

utdrd said:


> I use my bike for commuting, going down the pub and everything in between. I've never given too much thought to the technical side of things or buying the 'appropriate gear'. I ride a GT zum hybrid which suits my needs and isn't too heavy. Even in cold windy weather I'll have my padded shorts on and a windbreaker of sorts (i'm anything but stylish). I'm in my early 40s and love my cycling mostly for the freedom involved but also for the obvious health benefits. If anything I feel fitter now than I did in my early 20s. I couldn't give 2 hoots as to how I may look or what make or style of bike I have.
> Strangely in the past few weeks I have become aware of cycling snobbery. I stopped for some water from my rucksack (old and battered but waterproof) the other day before going up a rather steep gradient. About ten lycra clad Lance Armstrong wannabees pulled up next to me. Cue energy drinks and high protein bars being passed around etc. I got talking to them only to be almost disdainfully dismissed by these preposterous looking clones for not being a 'serious' cyclist and not having a 'proper' bike! I have to say I laughed at first but the crazy thing is that these guys really were so far up their own ar*es it struck me as quite unbelievable and certainly put me off joining a club as a friend had suggested.
> I had another similar 'incident' only this morning but got talking to the guy. I politely explained to him that my bicycle is my principal mode of transport i.e. much more than a hobby and that I routinely do anything from 100-150 miles per week. The bike suits my needs and I'm not out to prove anything to anyone else on the road as regards having the best equipment and gear etc. plus at my age I'm not looking at entering the Tour de France anytime soon. The chap turned out to be ok despite the initial impression I had of him but did say he wouldn't be seen dead on anything but his high end road bike.
> I'm curious as to whether anyone else on here has had similar experiences or indeed if there are cycling snobs about who might like to educate me. Now I can accept abuse from motorists but find the attitude of some cyclists to be, if anything, worse.




I go for loads of rides in the summer. Last year a group of about 10 club riders passed me and we had a nice chat. they were really pleasant and all had carbon roadies. I was on my battered mtb/commuter.

I have been dissed by some roadies too but I don't take it too heart as they are probably twats anyway.


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

al78 said:


> Wow, I'd melt if I wore all that.
> 
> If it is below 4C I will wear an ordinary pair of trousers one pair of socks, short sleeved base layer, sweatshirt, cycling jacket, fleece hat and a pair of gloves. Even then I will often arrive at work sweating if it is above freezing.
> 
> I do tend to generate a lot of heat when I cycle (not necessarily because I am pushing hard).



Bear in mind that my average speed on the trike is about 5-6 miles an hour, and it's heavy, so I tend not to be spinning along, plus I'm on and off it all the time picking up boxes. If it's raining, it gets through, even in waterproofs...

We still get cold fingers, mainly due to having wet hands... Sometimes I do whip my hat off to let some heat out.

The downside is I can't wear shorts in summer, you really want some leg protection from the box-slop. 

I started in November, so I've got the coldest bit of the year out of the way, I'll gradually shed what layers I can...


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> It's your choice to wear lycra or not & either camp has no real justification for looking down on the other camp, but I also find that a lot of people who are into cycling in a big way but don't wear lycra see it at some kind of status symbol that they're not, this in it's own way is snobbery.
> 
> I personally find it interesting that everyone I know who rides a reasonable distance in non-lycra clothes always complains about the bad weather & being cold, getting wet etc. not only that but they also have to change into their work clothes anyway once they reach their destination anyway. Where as everyone I know who doesn't wear 'sensible clothes', ie lycra & other cycling specific clothing, tends to say there's no real problem with it being wet, cold or well much else unless they miss-judge the weather. So I would argue in lycra being the right temp, comfortable & able to ride faster for the same effort level that I'm in the sensible cloths & those in their civvies are the ones who are dressed inappropriately for their task.



Before this descends into some banal online offensive, I urge you to read my post again, in particular the opening paragraph, then practise your skills of 'Close/Interpretive Reading' (or so they called it when I was a lad.)

For my situation, 'Civvies' are very appropriate for the task, sometimes I wish to change, other times it is not necessary. If I wore Lycra then apart from slapping myself whenever I passed a reflective surface, I would need to change every time I reached my destination, and quite possibly shield my face. One needn't wear Lycra to get from A to B, they need only judge the weather, the proposed distance, then the appropriateness of changing facilities available at their destination.

If the advantage you are claiming is that Lycra is the wonderkid of clothing technology - given that it can be used in all weathers - then fair enough, although personally I like to dress appropriately for the elements. However, it would seem that one can still misjudge the weather whilst clad in Lycra.

There are plenty of good quality alternatives to Lycra, and in many cases people probably overdress for a longer ride, the trick is to remember that you can get away with less. For shorter trips say 5 miles and under, proper clothing is more than enough. Then there is the point that on a bike the air is your natural air-conditioner, if you are getting too hot then slow down, if you are pushed for time then count it as a lesson towards better judgement in the future.

For me, Merino wool is far better than Lycra, and the latter is dwarfed by Tweed. A good fitting woollen suit can get one far, and if taken to a tailor / made to measure, then can be made or adjusted for long-term cycling. Then there are plenty of cycle clothes which one can wear normally without coming across as some fetishist.

I for one, like to view my bicycle as a tool for the given purpose, that is why it ought to be comfortable, have a decent range, and a detachable basket for when I go shopping, go to the recycling centre, or make / pick up a delivery. I cycle about 5 - 30 miles in general, and see no need for Lycra.


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## thegrumpybiker (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Before this descends into some banal online offensive, I urge you to read my post again, in particular the opening paragraph, then practise your skills of 'Close/Interpretive Reading' (or so they called it when I was a lad.)
> 
> For my situation, 'Civvies' are very appropriate for the task, sometimes I wish to change, other times it is not necessary. If I wore Lycra then apart from slapping myself whenever I passed a reflective surface, I would need to change every time I reached my destination, and quite possibly shield my face. One needn't wear Lycra to get from A to B, they need only judge the weather, the proposed distance, then the appropriateness of changing facilities available at their destination.
> 
> ...



I'm personally not keen on the lycra look, mainly because most of the tops make Fatboy Slim's Hawaiian shirts look dowdy and secondly, well, it just looks a bit whack. I've no doubt it's an effective material in most conditions and when pushing hard. Like Chap I'm sold on merino wool. May have to look into the tweed option though, sounds classy.
There's a relatively new (I think) bike clothing company called B-spoke that makes "civvy" styled bikewear, looks quite nice some of it too. So if you want to look a bit smart after pedalling to your destination it may be the look to go for.


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Sub-5 mile rides typically I have normal clothes with some old cycling shorts underneath because my saddles are to hard if I don't have any padding. I also may ride with lightweight slightly baggy shorts & a t-shirt in a bag, this means I can just throw on the t-shirt & have the possibility of a layered look going on if I have a long-sleeved base layer which no one really notices these days. Once above 10 miles though the lycra comes out because at around 35min travelling time I want wicking, non-flappy material & light weight without getting cold or getting way to hot.

There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing. Say if I was willing to almost half my average speed I could make do with normal clothes, however that would mean on most journeys it would take longer in total time, it takes about 10-15 min to change max (if required, a lot of the time just pulling out a t-shirt is enough) but on any half decent length of ride the time I lose by going slowly totally swamps the time it takes to change!

If that lot works for you fine, it's just in my experience & observation using 'normal' alternatives often leaves people needing to be a much more careful judge of the weather & more protective of their clothing or simply take far longer to get from A to B & be presentable. Example; I think it was thursday I arrived at work with all my clothes soaking wet, I hadn't actually noticed that I was soaked to the skin because the clothes had worked as intended I was warm & after hanging the clothes up in a moderately warm room for the day they were nice n' dry for my trip home. Compare this to a colleague who got caught in the same early morning heavy shower, he had a fairly water proof jacket with a jumper underneath & normal trousers. He too had to change into different clothes, however he ended up cycling home is his work shirt & trousers because his clothes hadn't dried.


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## brokenbetty (13 Feb 2010)

thegrumpybiker said:


> There's a relatively new (I think) bike clothing company called B-spoke that makes "civvy" styled bikewear, looks quite nice some of it too.



OOoooo - I hadn't seen them before! THanks for the link


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> Sub-5 mile rides typically I have normal clothes with some old cycling shorts underneath because my saddles are to hard if I don't have any padding. I also may ride with lightweight slightly baggy shorts & a t-shirt in a bag, this means I can just throw on the t-shirt & have the possibility of a layered look going on if I have a long-sleeved base layer which no one really notices these days. Once above 10 miles though the lycra comes out because at around 35min travelling time I want wicking, non-flappy material & light weight without getting cold or getting way to hot.
> 
> There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing. Say if I was willing to almost half my average speed I could make do with normal clothes, however that would mean on most journeys it would take longer in total time, it takes about 10-15 min to change max (if required, a lot of the time just pulling out a t-shirt is enough) but on any half decent length of ride the time I lose by going slowly totally swamps the time it takes to change!
> 
> If that lot works for you fine, it's just in my experience & observation using 'normal' alternatives often leaves people needing to be a much more careful judge of the weather & more protective of their clothing or simply take far longer to get from A to B & be presentable. Example; I think it was thursday I arrived at work with all my clothes soaking wet, I hadn't actually noticed that I was soaked to the skin because the clothes had worked as intended I was warm & after hanging the clothes up in a moderately warm room for the day they were nice n' dry for my trip home. Compare this to a colleague who got caught in the same early morning heavy shower, he had a fairly water proof jacket with a jumper underneath & normal trousers. He too had to change into different clothes, however he ended up cycling home is his work shirt & trousers because his clothes hadn't dried.




The only poor sartorial decision I have made with regards to cycling and inclement weather was to wear denim jeans during an absolute down-pour.

Usually, if the heavens open, a light-weight jacket (small enough to carry in a saddle bag) will be more than enough - if one is not already wearing a jacket. I believe you can even buy some at Boots for under £10. Although Regatta might be the better option.

For 0 to 10 mile cycles, I wear my normal clothes. For intended 10 - 20 mile cycles, I'll probably switch the coat for a jacket. For 20 - 30 mile journeys, I'll favour the Merino wool, and will make certain that I have the water-proofs on standby.

Merino wool is very quick drying, versatile, and pleasant to wear. You can buy Merino wool products, which were not even intended for cycling.

In the end, if you wish to wear Lycra for your commute, fair play to you, I wouldn't but then we are different people. The focus of this thread was regarding those (usually from the Spandex-crew) who have the gaul to look down on other cyclists because the equipment they ride, or because they do not wish to look like a vegan participant in a BDSM session.

Live and let live


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## Norm (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> There is also a dependency on effort, most of the time I'm pushing out the thick end of 200w power sustained that means I will overheat very easily if I'm not in appropriate clothing.


Is there any correlation between someone who knows their power output and wearing lycra?

I don't think that halving the speed is required to move from the sweat zone to something more comfortable. I'm sorry that I don't know the watts I produce (I hope that alone doesn't preclude me from passing comment) but I find that dropping from, say, 18mph to 15mph is enough to shift from hard work to sustainable.


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## potsy (13 Feb 2010)

My current commuting get up
-1 pair wool walking socks
-padded undershorts
-ronhill bikesters
-merino base layer
-thin moisture wicking s/s shirt
-waterproof jacket
-buff
-aldi winter gloves
This has done me down to -2c,no lycra in site and I get ignored by 95% of other cyclists


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as '_serious cyclists_', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.

I would regard Amsterdam a country of 'serious' cyclists, as opposed to say the USA or Canada, yet is it not these countries which produce the cycle greats?


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as '_serious cyclists_', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.



Chap this is rather presumptious?
Seems like another form of snobbery and stereotype.


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Chap this is rather presumptious?
> Seems like another form of snobbery and stereotype.




So you would say that this is not the case, and that many racers adopt the whole egalitarian form of 'we're all in it together'. If so, it may be that I just have had unfortunate experiences with the unsavoury members of this clique, that and the OP plus many of the posters to this forum 

Reverse snobbery, probably outnumbers the original cases - some say it's a reaction, others resentment. We all categorise, it's the means of our system of interaction categorisation, etc. The key is to be open to revision, and realise the universality of most systems. Thus, if I bore an actual hatred for those in Lycra, then that would be stupid, if I was to pull from my experience that many Lycra-clad commuters are generally not the most pleasant of people but this is not a definite, then that would be tending towards a more workable model.

This is why, the discussion need be about the obnoxious tikes, and also about the pliability and usefulness of the material in itself.


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

Just thinking aloud here....

To me, one sign of 'seriousness' in a cyclist* is the ownership of more than one bike. This is generally in order to have bikes suited to different uses. So it stands to reason that different uses probably involve different outfits. So any of us, wearing anything, could easily be in one of our alternative 'personalities'. Which makes the whole judgement thing doubly stupid, in any direction.

*Serious is an interesting term, most of my cycling friends are anything but serious, and some of them are downright comic!


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Let's turn this around a little... would you call a serious driver a (wo)man who only really drives the kids to school & goes to the shops by car or is the serious driver the one who's out doing motorsport/trackdays/driver training in the evening/weekends or taking days of work to do them?

Personally I'd see the people of Amsterdam (FYI it's a town not a country) & those who use their bikes for pure transport as utilitarian cyclists, just going about their business as people on a mode of transport. They're not serious cyclists they are regular utilitarian bike users & in all honesty there's nothing wrong with being that sort of person, these people shouldn't be looked down on because they're just getting on with their life using the bike as a tool for transportation.


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## joebingo (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as '_serious cyclists_', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.



No, I see myself as a serious cyclist because I cycle every day. Wearing Lycra is just an excuse to leave the house in my underwear.


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

To put it simply your 'categorisation' of lycra wearers as simply racers is narrow. This may be possibly down to your experiences but at the same time the generalisation is as poor as those 'lycra louts' who have a holier than though attitude. The topic of someone saying hello crops up all the time and I don't seem to be as bothered people who wave/don't wave.

People can be many things on a bike- it is not simply black and white. commuters and utlity cyclists may wear lycra for utility reasons and not be road racers. You equally get obnoxious people in none lycra. Lets think of what causes the obnoxiousness rather than simply labelling said cyclist with certain appearance as being snobbish. Yes, you may have a revisable, working model but your post is decisive and not inclusive and smacks of tribalism and reinforces stereotypes. People have differing ideas of function and utility of a bike. They even have different ideas of wearing lycra...how groundbreaking is that?

What is deemed pointless is that snobbishness in any form is limiting to others getting on a bike. It's not always about top end kit, it could easily be about the clique mentality of any group that wants a sense of belonging and exclusivity - that is not limited to lycra wearers.


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Just thinking aloud here....
> This is generally in order to have bikes suited to different uses. So it stands to reason that different uses probably involve different outfits. So any of us, wearing anything, could easily be in one of our alternative 'personalities'. Which makes the whole judgement thing doubly stupid, in any direction.



+1 wise words Arch


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2010)

You could have many ways of saying someone is a serious cyclist
number of bikes
type of bikes
fairweather/winter
clothing
number of miles
attitude
speed

I've no idea whether I'm a serious cyclist or not, but I know I do more miles a year than some people who label themselves that. I'd probably start to meet the serious cyclist on most of those criteria except attitude and speed. Then again speak to a different set of people and I'd even meet those two too!


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> Let's turn this around a little... would you call a serious driver a (wo)man who only really drives the kids to school & goes to the shops by car or is the serious driver the one who's out doing motorsport/trackdays/driver training in the evening/weekends or taking days of work to do them?
> 
> Personally I'd see the people of Amsterdam (FYI it's a town not a country) & those who use their bikes for pure transport as utilitarian cyclists, just going about their business as people on a mode of transport. They're not serious cyclists they are regular utilitarian bike users & in all honesty there's nothing wrong with being that sort of person, these people shouldn't be looked down on because they're just getting on with their life using the bike as a tool for transportation.



Where does that leave me, then, commuting and shopping by bike, andthen going off for leisure rides at the weekend and touring for my holidays? Am I allowed to be serious all the time, or only when I'm cycling for no purpose other than to cycle?


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Where does that leave me, then, commuting and shopping by bike, andthen going off for leisure rides at the weekend and touring for my holidays? Am I allowed to be serious all the time, or only when I'm cycling for no purpose other than to cycle?



Cycling must only be done with serious intentions- no smiling, no laughing.


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Norm said:


> Is there any correlation between someone who knows their power output and wearing lycra?


Not really, it's just 200w means more than '_cruising_ (& I use that term loosely) _at 22mph_', it's more like '_22mph on the flat still air, 8.5mph up a 5% climb & 16.5mph into a 10mph head wind_'



> I don't think that halving the speed is required to move from the sweat zone to something more comfortable. I'm sorry that I don't know the watts I produce (I hope that alone doesn't preclude me from passing comment) but I find that dropping from, say, 18mph to 15mph is enough to shift from hard work to sustainable.


My cruising speed isn't halved to take me into that zone, however my door to door average is (I've tried riding outside my sweat zone, though I wouldn't call my usual pace uncomfortable per-se). I've only just worked out how to roughly estimate my power output over a ride & it is rather interesting but certainly not knowing doesn't preclude you from passing any comment, you just know how hard you're pushing your self physically without any real numbers.


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Where does that leave me, then, commuting and shopping by bike, andthen going off for leisure rides at the weekend and touring for my holidays? Am I allowed to be serious all the time, or only when I'm cycling for no purpose other than to cycle?


I'd call you a cycling enthusiast, someone for cycling whom is more than just a means of getting from A to B but not someone who has serious sporting intentions within cycling.


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Just thinking aloud here....
> 
> To me, one sign of 'seriousness' in a cyclist* is the ownership of more than one bike. This is generally in order to have bikes suited to different uses. So it stands to reason that different uses probably involve different outfits. So any of us, wearing anything, could easily be in one of our alternative 'personalities'. Which makes the whole judgement thing doubly stupid, in any direction.



 Too true.



GrasB said:


> Let's turn this around a little... would you call a serious driver a (wo)man who only really drives the kids to school & goes to the shops by car or is the serious driver the one who's out doing motorsport/trackdays/driver training in the evening/weekends or taking days of work to do them?
> 
> Personally I'd see the people of Amsterdam (FYI it's a town not a country) & those who use their bikes for pure transport as utilitarian cyclists, just going about their business as people on a mode of transport. They're not serious cyclists they are regular utilitarian bike users & in all honesty there's nothing wrong with being that sort of person, these people shouldn't be looked down on because they're just getting on with their life using the bike as a tool for transportation.



Oi, that's my example! 

Oh gosh, did I really refer to Amsterdam as a country , I was meaning to put The Netherlands, and highlight Amsterdam. Although few thought to correct me bar the one I had previously debated


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> ...you just know how hard you're pushing your self physically without any real numbers.



I don't. I actually took the HRM monitor out last night on a few rides and the heart rate doesn't really change that much in higher gears, just the legs hurt a lot.


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

I have a criteria I measure myself against. I did a job earlier in the year and shared an office with a chap who drove from 30 miles away, parked at the park and ride, got the bike off the car, changed into full lycra and cleated shoes and so on, rode the 3 miles into the office, and changed back into office clothes.

Home time, the whole process was reversed. He had to walk down to the front door in his stocking feet, because he'd once fallen down the staircase in his cleats.

Now, cycling all the way each way, that would be hard core, and beyond me, so fair enough. But to change for a 3 mile ride into town, all on suburban and urban streets? That smacks to me of... well, I'm not sure, sort of 'all the gear, no idea....'. Although he apparently did some serious MTBing in his spare time, so he did have the idea. But talking to him, it was a lot about the equipment. To me, it's all about getting there, and cake. If the equipment works, and the cake is earned, that's all that matters.


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## Arch (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> I'd call you a cycling enthusiast, someone for cycling whom is more than just a means of getting from A to B but not someone who has* serious sporting* intentions within cycling.



Ah, so serious = sport then?


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> To put it simply your 'categorisation' of lycra wearers as simply racers is narrow. This may be possibly down to your experiences but at the same time the generalisation is as poor as those 'lycra louts' who have a holier than though attitude. The topic of someone saying hello crops up all the time and I don't seem to be as bothered people who wave/don't wave.
> 
> People can be many things on a bike- it is not simply black and white. commuters and utlity cyclists may wear lycra for utility reasons and not be road racers. You equally get obnoxious people in none lycra. Lets think of what causes the obnoxiousness rather than simply labelling said cyclist with certain appearance as being snobbish. Yes, you may have a revisable, working model but your post is decisive and not inclusive and smacks of tribalism and reinforces stereotypes. People have differing ideas of function and utility of a bike. They even have different ideas of wearing lycra...how groundbreaking is that?
> 
> What is deemed pointless is that snobbishness in any form is limiting to others getting on a bike. It's not always about top end kit, it could easily be about the clique mentality of any group that wants a sense of belonging and exclusivity - that is not limited to lycra wearers.




We're not seriously debating whether Lycra-clad individuals are the sole-preserve of Snobbery are we?

This debate is almost begging to be put out of its misery. My main lesson, from a number of forum members is that less people read between the lines than I had thought. So I shall make it explicit, with copious usage of smileys.

Humans are the same. If you wear Lycra, it means you wear Lycra, nothing else. Snobbery is bad  Some people beleive that you have to buy the same equipment as them, or else be deemed as a time-waster . This applies to all groups .

Few machines are genuinly good all-rounders (even Bromptons  ) - the nearest is probably a hybrid. People use different tools for different tasks: a racing bike will probably not be used for heavy cargo.

Live and let live


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> I don't. I actually took the HRM monitor out last night on a few rides and the heart rate doesn't really change that much in higher gears, just the legs hurt a lot.


Heart rate is effected by all kinds of things, I tend to find my heart rate starts to rise at the bottom of the hill, rises & tails off a bit before the top but it'll rise & peak about 2/3 the way down the descents after the climb... about 15-30s after hitting vmax & cmax (is that a term, hell it is now!) for the day.


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## potsy (13 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Cycling must only be done with serious intentions- no smiling, no laughing.


Ah but what if I laugh out loud at some POB doing something stupid?
Does that then mean I'm-
<a> not serious
<b>a snob
<c> both


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Ah, so serious = sport then?



Alas, thats the state of our country - a sizable and expanding back section devoted to sport, a similar chunk at the front reserved for non sequitur and scare-mongering, then a meaty wedge dedicated to celebrity.

Oops wrong forum


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Arch said:


> Ah, so serious = sport then?


For me, personally yes. 

As for your work colleague, I'd personally think he's a bit of a clown, I'd drive in to the P&R with civvies with a pair of padded undies or old cycling shorts underneath put some cycling shoes on & ride the remainder.


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> Heart rate is effected by all kinds of things, I tend to find my heart rate starts to rise at the bottom of the hill, rises & tails off a bit before the top but it'll rise & peak about 2/3 the way down the descents after the climb... about 15-30s after hitting vmax & cmax (is that a term, hell it is now!) for the day.



I'm just saying, I genuinely have little idea how hard I'm pushing and it's been put to me before that I'm underdoing it, sometimes by a lot. For me it is just hurt and not hurt. I cannot distinguish really at all between 60% MSHR, 80% and 90%, I haven't got a clue, especially if I switch into a higher gear where it'll hurt anyway. I found the same thing with other people I didn't ride with where they were apparently even bigger wusses and would complain about it hurting a lot trundling along at 10mph although this might have been true because their HR was about 30-40 higher than mine for totally normal activites and spiked like crazy.


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> We're not seriously debating whether Lycra-clad individuals are the sole-preserve of Snobbery are we?
> 
> This debate is almost begging to be put out of its misery. My main lesson, from a number of forum members is that less people read between the lines than I had thought. So I shall make it explicit, with copious usage of smileys.



Seems like it, yes this is in what the OP posted about ie roadies in lycra with top end gear being snobs - I think this can be an overdone topic.

No it's not simply about reading between the lines especially in written digital media. Or are you simply implying that everyone should have the same interpretation as you?


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

marinyork , You're not alone, I have no idea what my % MSHR is until I look at my cycle comp!


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## gavintc (13 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> On a slightly tangential note, I always find it odd - if not rather ironic - that the Lycra-crew refer to their-selves as '_serious cyclists_', whereas commuters, utility cyclists, etc are deemed as some sort of fashionista upstart.
> 
> I would regard Amsterdam a country of 'serious' cyclists, as opposed to say the USA or Canada, yet is it not these countries which produce the cycle greats?



You have a real problem with attitude Chap. Not everyone wants to dress and behave like you. Equally, those that do not are not looking down at you. Because I wear lycra for most rides does not stop me regarding people who cycle about town in normal clothes. I think you need to take a chill pill - there are other types of cyclists out there and we also enjoy our cycling.


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Seems like it, yes this is in what the OP posted about ie roadies in lycra with top end gear being snobs - I think this can be an overdone topic.
> 
> No it's not simply about reading between the lines especially in written digital media. Or are you simply implying that everyone should have the same interpretation as you?




TTCycle, I am sure we agree on much, but this is now really trying my patience, there was an audible groan that escaped me on reading your concluding sentence. 

Let's just agree to disagree, or perhaps start a related thread which I shall respond to at a later date. I know this is the Internet where pointless debates may reverberate through the passage of time, but I really have better and more pressing forms of procrastination to attend to.

Cheers.


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> You have a real problem with attitude Chap. Not everyone wants to dress and behave like you. Equally, those that do not are not looking down at you. Because I wear lycra for most rides does not stop me regarding people who cycle about town in normal clothes. I think you need to take a chill pill - there are other types of cyclists out there and we also enjoy our cycling.




 How could I have a problem with you, not only are you from the finest city in Britain, but you also have a pleasant demeanour. Although I wouldn't wish to cycle too close to the Forth in Lycra, and in parts of Leith and Granton you might get odd looks.

All the best.


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## ttcycle (13 Feb 2010)

gavintc said:


> You have a real problem with attitude Chap. Not everyone wants to dress and behave like you. Equally, those that do not are not looking down at you. Because I wear lycra for most rides does not stop me regarding people who cycle about town in normal clothes. I think you need to take a chill pill - there are other types of cyclists out there and we also enjoy our cycling.



+1

But lets agree to agree


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

ttcycle said:


> +1
> 
> But lets agree to agree



Agreed


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## steve52 (13 Feb 2010)

i have to try and stop this now!!! iam a cyclist we are all cyclist or potential cyclist,s my grand farther was a cyclist and i except all cyclist what ever you ride or however u dress, it all looks the same to a blind man, anyone not agreeing , send 20 pounds (no reason othan for me to spend it)


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## snorri (13 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> There's a bloke who I see regularly, or at least his bike, as he goes into the same Tesco as is on my route to work.



Nothing snobbish about him then, common as muck.


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

steve52 said:


> i have to try and stop this now!!! iam a cyclist we are all cyclist or potential cyclist,s my grand farther was a cyclist and i except all cyclist what ever you ride or however u dress, it all looks the same to a blind man, anyone not agreeing , send 20 pounds (no reason othan for me to spend it)




Lol, good luck, my previous posts have been spent trying to clarify that I honestly do not care about Lycra (as a choice, lifestyle, or material.) Unfortunately, it's falling on deaf ears since the appropriate snippets exist. Now I'm beginning to understand why politicians obfuscate banality into jargon


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## marinyork (13 Feb 2010)

snorri said:


> Nothing snobbish about him then, common as muck.



Funnily enough, it's regarded as a very posh area .


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> For me, personally yes.
> 
> As for your work colleague, I'd personally think he's a bit of a clown, I'd drive in to the P&R with civvies with a pair of padded undies or old cycling shorts underneath put some cycling shoes on & ride the remainder.



Padded shorts for a 3 mile cycle? Seriously, what sort of saddle are you using?


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## brokenbetty (13 Feb 2010)

Serendipitously, I just came across this video (while looking for info on vinatge hercules bikes, of all things)

How can anyone deny the superiority of the lycrista after seeing that?

(Sorry if it's been posted before. I tried a search on Spandex and Performance but you can imagine there are quite a lot of posts on those subjects  )


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## GrasB (13 Feb 2010)

Negligible padding Selle Italia saddles. I've ridden 5 miles or so on the SLC without padding & it left light bruising on my sit bones with padding though it's wonderfully comfortable along with the SLR


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## chap (13 Feb 2010)

brokenbetty said:


> Serendipitously, I just came across this video (while looking for info on vinatge hercules bikes, of all things)
> 
> How can anyone deny the superiority of the lycrista after seeing that?
> 
> (Sorry if it's been posted before. I tried a search on Spandex and Performance but you can imagine there are quite a lot of posts on those subjects  )




Fantastic! If only somebody had put it to me like that, tomorrow morning I know what I'll be purchasing. Look out ladies


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## BentMikey (13 Feb 2010)

joebingo said:


> No, I see myself as a serious cyclist because I cycle every day. Wearing Lycra is just an excuse to leave the house in my underwear.




What's wrong with you? Since when do you wear underwear with cycling lycra, you heathen!!


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## ComedyPilot (14 Feb 2010)

GrasB said:


> Negligible padding Selle Italia saddles. I've ridden 5 miles or so on the SLC without padding &* it left light bruising* on my sit bones with padding though it's wonderfully comfortable along with the SLR







How do you know?


What sort of mirror positions and bodily contortions did you go through to see the bruises?


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## Downward (14 Feb 2010)

So after 9 pages it transpires 0.001% of people who ride a bike are snobs who like to rib other bike riders ? If I saw someone is a cape cycling I would allow a small smile too especially if i was a decent rider with a nice bike and fully kitted out.


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## Chrisc (14 Feb 2010)

I cycle therefore I am a cyclist.

Sometimes I wear padded shorts, sometimes I ride a dutch bike in trousers and a shirt, sometimes I ride a race bike in my rapha shorts and a manky t shirt, sometimes I go to the shops or work, sometimes I pootle round to the pub, sometimes I put the bike on the car rack and bugger off into the countryside to wander round pretty places in the sun with my missus on her pashley, sometimes I get piss wet through and frozen, sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes I wear a woolly hat, sometimes I can't be arsed and use the motorbike, sometimes I wish I'd ridden in the tour de France, sometimes I think I'm Lance, sometimes I think I'm twenty again, sometimes I think I'd like to ride around the world, or do John O' Groats to Lands End, sometimes people blank me on the road, sometimes they wave and say hello, sometimes cars almost clip me, sometimes they stay behind and pass me safely, sometimes they piss me off but mostly I just grin and ride about on my bike.


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## chap (14 Feb 2010)

Well the racers of London can now rest easy (or should they be doing the opposite) as I am about to join that proud rank - admittedly without the Lycra.

Yes, I am purchasing a Pashley Guv'nor!


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## Chrisc (14 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Well the racers of London can now rest easy (or should they be doing the opposite) as I am about to join that proud rank - admittedly without the Lycra.
> 
> Yes, I am purchasing a Pashley Guv'nor!



Well done! I am fancying one myself, to go with a nice merino sweater I have... Which model will it be?


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## chap (14 Feb 2010)

*Getting a Pashley Guv'nor*

3 speed: I couldn't justify the single-speed, and didn't trust the 4 

Here's an enlightening website, which helped cement the decision: Guv'nor owners club


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## Chrisc (14 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> 3 speed: I couldn't justify the single-speed, and didn't trust the 4
> 
> Here's an enlightening website, which helped cement the decision: Guv'nor owners club



I have been rooting around that site. It's doing me no good at all!
How long do you have to wait and do you happen to know the chainring/freewheel sizes they fit as standard?


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## chap (14 Feb 2010)

Chrisc said:


> I have been rooting around that site. It's doing me no good at all!
> How long do you have to wait and do you happen to know the chainring/freewheel sizes they fit as standard?




About a fortnight I have been told, although some shops may already have a model in your size. Erm, nope. Sadly, I'm not that technical with bikes, I just enjoy the ride  Although, this will doubtlessly improve as I use them more often


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## addictfreak (14 Feb 2010)

Well I have said this before on similar threads, but it still stands. 

Those that are ignorant, are like that anyway its nothing to do with what bikes they ride or the clothes they wear.
Personally I have a foot in the roadie and MTB camps and when im out I acknowledge *everyone* whether im passing them or whether they are on the other side of the road.
If they fail to return the compliment, well thats their loss.


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## Chrisc (14 Feb 2010)

Look forward to hearing about it when it arrives!


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## Origamist (14 Feb 2010)

The Guv'nor offers a stately ride, Chap (I rode the single speed last year). I think you'll have to invest in some mudguards and a saddle-bag though. The duomatic version looks interesting, if a little pricey. 

The Fixed 3 speed Pashley Clubman looks nice too - it's a bit more of a sporty throwback:


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## Arch (14 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> Padded shorts for a 3 mile cycle? Seriously, what sort of saddle are you using?



One of these?:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html

Well, I went out for a 40 miler today, and got waves and nods from some roadies, and not from others. I was completely blanked in a cafe in Pocklington, my mount was outside, and I was the only person in there, so it was obviously mine, and three cyclists turned up (roadie-ish, but more like tourers really - mudguards and racks), glanced at my trike, locked their bikes up, and then came in without so much as looking at me - I looked up expecting to at least exchange smiles. Perhaps they thought the Catrike marked me out as some sort of psychopath. Maybe it was the colour. It's something you see a lot - people see something they don't quite 'understand', and just blank it out.

Funnily, I got waves and grins from two separate car drivers....


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## MacB (14 Feb 2010)

mikeitup said:


> I go for loads of rides in the summer. Last year a group of about 10 club riders passed me and we had a nice chat. they were really pleasant and all had carbon roadies. I was on my battered mtb/commuter.
> 
> *I have been dissed by some roadies too but I don't take it too heart as they are probably twats anyway*.



I think the last bit says it all really, twats exist everywhere, it's just unfortunate that they colour the perceptions of others re whatever activity they happen to be indulging at the time.


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## potsy (14 Feb 2010)

I went out today and passed maybe 10 cyclists,not one wave miserable gits.Saying that I was in the car does it still count


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## Sheffield_Tiger (14 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> You could have many ways of saying someone is a serious cyclist
> 
> number of bikes
> type of bikes
> ...


Thing is, there are a lot of signs to signal that someone takes their cycling seriously, but not so many to say they don't - so its assumption.

For instance - If you see a bike parked and it has clipless pedals, you might assume that the owner takes cycling seriously, in one way or another.

If you see a mail-order heavyweight MTBSO you don't think the same way. But it could be ridden seriously by someone on a budget, or who is new to it and bought the "wrong bike" from bad advice.

Neither rider is "less worthy".

Not all lycra-wearers are uppity either, I remember sat in jeans and tee-shirt, eating my sarnies, my "homebrew" bike from spare bits laid out next to me, looking at the view and absent mindedly twirling my back wheel. I think it looked like I was folornly inspecting damage as next thing, a couple of "proper cyclists" in "proper cycling gear" were already unzipping their wedge bags to get their multi-tools ready to help out. They alnmost looked disappointed when I tol them that there was no problem, I was just enjoying a summer's day and stopping for a bit of lunch.

Nice of them to stop though, rather than sniff at the "poor kid on a tatty bike"


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## Norm (14 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Thing is, there are a lot of signs to signal that someone takes their cycling seriously, but not so many to say they don't - so its assumption.


Whilst I am not overly bothered whether someone is "serious" or not, I gauge their keenness on cadence.


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## Number14 (14 Feb 2010)

55 mile organised ride on a Brompton last summer. Group of roadies took the mickey about me riding on a Brompton.

Lesson number 1 - Bromptons with Scwlabe marathon tyres don't get many punctures.

Lesson 2 - Roadies on skinny tyres do get lots of punctures.

Lesson 3 - Bromptons are quicker than roadies over 55 miles.


Moral: Don't take the pi$$ out of other cyclists- you may end up looking like a tw@t.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (14 Feb 2010)

Norm said:


> Whilst I am not overly bothered whether someone is "serious" or not, I gauge their keenness on cadence.



Fair point but one that is always confounded by the mysterious and latently superhuman "cycle-chic girl" that always breezes past you, though you're on the drops and in top gear pedalling "furiously", whilst she is sat upright with legs doing about 30RPM in a flowing dress with not a hair out of place.


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## Norm (14 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Fair point but one that is always confounded by the mysterious and latently superhuman "cycle-chic girl" that always breezes past you, though you're on the drops and in top gear pedalling "furiously", whilst she is sat upright with legs doing about 30RPM in a flowing dress with not a hair out of place.


Have you got her phone number?


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## Sheffield_Tiger (14 Feb 2010)

Norm said:


> Have you got her phone number?



I would have, if I could have kept up with her long enough to ask!!


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## chap (14 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Fair point but one that is always confounded by the mysterious and latently superhuman "cycle-chic girl" that always breezes past you, though you're on the drops and in top gear pedalling "furiously", whilst she is sat upright with legs doing about 30RPM in a flowing dress with not a hair out of place.



That often is the case here in London, there are many women which can give a lot of people a run for their money. One could say it's a shame, although it can also be seen as part of the challenge, catch up with them and try to get the number. Making a good impression on a lady having effectively chased her for 2 or so minutes is a tricky skill to muster. 



Number14 said:


> 55 mile organised ride on a Brompton last summer. Group of roadies took the mickey about me riding on a Brompton.
> 
> Lesson number 1 - Bromptons with Scwlabe marathon tyres don't get many punctures.
> 
> ...




Kudos to you 
You've got to love the Brompton


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## Tynan (14 Feb 2010)

horses for courses init

if want to ride hard enough to sweat then I think lycra etc is sensible, comfier and regulates heat better

I only wish I could afford merino, I have one pair of part merino socks


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## Debian (15 Feb 2010)

Norm said:


> Have you got her phone number?



You beat me to the question


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## Debian (15 Feb 2010)

Norm said:


> Whilst I am not overly bothered whether someone is "serious" or not, I gauge their keenness on cadence.



I tend to agree with you Norm. This is why, when I come across another cyclist I drop a gear or two and pedal like mad in the hope of impressing by my cadence. Especially if it's the "Cycle-Chic" girl!


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## Twanger (15 Feb 2010)

I wear a base layer, a long sleeved jersey, a breathable windproof jacket, padded undershorts and winter tights in this weather because I like to keep warm and absolutely hate the slight feeling of clingy, sweaty dampness I am left with all morning when I cycle more than 2 miles in my work clothes.


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## yumpy (15 Feb 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Fair point but one that is always confounded by the mysterious and latently superhuman "cycle-chic girl" that always breezes past you, though you're on the drops and in top gear pedalling "furiously", whilst she is sat upright with legs doing about 30RPM in a flowing dress with not a hair out of place.



Sounds like Mary Poppins lives near you somewhere.


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