# The Paleo Thread...



## ThinAir (2 Jun 2013)

This something that I now swear by and is part of my lifestyle, rather than a fad.

Anyone else do this or has no one ever heard of it? If you do, what are your thoughts? Do you enjoy it, hate it or love it?

It has really benefitted me and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Also... If anyone has any recipes, meal ideas or ideas for itpntresring snacks, feel free to share them; always looking for new ways to enjoy food!

This site is good for Anyne just starting out or who wants to know more; www.marksdailyapple.com

Look forward to hearing from you!


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## Ningishzidda (3 Jun 2013)

The trouble with the Paleo diet, if you live north of Watford, everything is 'with ice'.


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## Ningishzidda (3 Jun 2013)

The jury is still out on Anti-deluvial agriculture.


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## Spinney (3 Jun 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> The trouble with the Paleo diet, if you live north of Watford, everything is 'with ice'.


 


Took me ages to work that one out!


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## Ningishzidda (3 Jun 2013)

'Paleo' could be construed as a misnomer.
The Paleolithic period was from C 2.5 mYA to The Agricultural Revoloution, approx 12,500 YA.

The first 90% of this, Homo Sapiens didn't exist, so it would be more fitting to call it the 'Upright walking hominid' diet.

Believe it or not, 'upright walking hominids' still exist, but respectable anthropologists fearful for their university funding refuse to accept this. Every one of the over >10,000 Sasquatch footprints found are fake.


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## ThinAir (3 Jun 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> 'Paleo' could be construed as a misnomer.
> The Paleolithic period was from C 2.5 mYA to The Agricultural Revoloution, approx 12,500 YA.
> 
> The first 90% of this, Homo Sapiens didn't exist, so it would be more fitting to call it the 'Upright walking hominid' diet.
> ...



I've often been referred to as a Sasquatch, and my footprints are real...


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## Ghost Donkey (3 Jun 2013)

Yes and no. I do most of the "don'ts" as it's a great set of guidelines. My eating is more veg to animal foods but that's personal preference. I haven't had a day off work ill since I started eating like this (approx three years ago), weigh two stone less and have abs which I'd never had even a hint of before. I've been reading quite a bit of food/biology science books over the last couple of years of this time too so I'm a real bore about the subject. I'm not going to pretend to understand it anywhere near comprehensively but I find it interesting, The last food related book I read was the China Study which is the anti-meat lexicon. There's a real danger of only reading info from like minded people. I still eat meat/fish mind.

I always recommend the Paleo Diet for Athletes book to anyone interested in food and endurance sport as the general nutrition info for eating on a training day is excellent, regardless of Paleo food sources or not.


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## ThinAir (3 Jun 2013)

I do agree with the point about reading only reading information from like minded people. I'm starting to see real results with the weight loss side of things, and as for simply feeling healthy and having more energy, well I've not felt like this for years.... A combination of shift work and junk food lead to me gaining 6 stone in just under five years. 

This has re adjusted the way I think about food, and has got me into as regular an eating pattern as I could hope to be in, like I say, due to shifts. 

I don't think I could ever give up meat and fish, but I do eat fearless red meat now, and eating mainly chicken and turkey. Is surprising how interesting you can make it! 

The only downfall I have is that I have a nut allergy, so I have to get protein from other areas.... Supplements, extra meats etc.

I have alwYs eAten veg, but this lifestyle means thati ear much more of it, and as I said before,I think thisis reflected in my energy levels. I, two stone lighter than I was at Chrtistmas, no now that I m back in the gym again, I am seeing the weight tumble :-)


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## Ghost Donkey (4 Jun 2013)

ThinAir said:


> I do agree with the point about reading only reading information from like minded people. I'm starting to see real results with the weight loss side of things, and as for simply feeling healthy and having more energy, well I've not felt like this for years.... A combination of shift work and junk food lead to me gaining 6 stone in just under five years.
> 
> This has re adjusted the way I think about food, and has got me into as regular an eating pattern as I could hope to be in, like I say, due to shifts.
> 
> ...


 
Well done . The key to sticking with anything is finding something that suits you and your lifestyle and you enjoy. By the sounds of things you've nailed it.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

Ghost Donkey said:


> Well done . The key to sticking with anything is finding something that suits you and your lifestyle and you enjoy. By the sounds of things you've nailed it.



Thanks. I don't really see this as a diet, it's more about (like I said) about managing to effect a change in my lifestyle. Something which I have tried to do on several occasions, but have never managed to do. This time, something has clicked into place and its been really easy 

I think this very easy to enjoy, and for some reason, seems to be saving me money. Probably because I'm not spending an absolute raft of money each week on take aways, and fast food when I am at work!


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## EltonFrog (4 Jun 2013)

So, basically its eat a healthy balanced diet. Common sense really.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

CarlP said:


> So, basically its eat a healthy balanced diet. Common sense really.



Yes it is and I appreciate where you are coming from, but it cuts out grains, most sugar, and pretty much anything processed. It's almost like a no carbs approach.


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## EltonFrog (4 Jun 2013)

ThinAir said:


> Yes it is and I appreciate where you are coming from, but it cuts out grains, most sugar, and pretty much anything processed. It's almost like a no carbs approach.


 

Pretty much the diet I've been on for many years...except for the Cadbury's Chocolate Buttons.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

CarlP said:


> Pretty much the diet I've been on for many years...except for the Cadbury's Chocolate Buttons.


Chocolate is without a doubt my biggest temptation!


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## Trevrev (4 Jun 2013)

I'm on this diet, but i didn't realise it had a name! I've just cut out all processed and refined sugars.
White flour.
It's cool...


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## Ningishzidda (4 Jun 2013)

From Wikipedia.

“societies may have made decisions by communal consensus decision making rather than by appointing permanent rulers such as chiefs and monarchs. Nor was there a formal division of labor during the Paleolithic. Each member of the group was skilled at all tasks essential to survival, regardless of individual abilities. Theories to explain the apparent egalitarianism have arisen, notably the Marxist concept of primitive communism. Christopher Boehm (1999) has hypothesized that egalitarianism may have evolved in Paleolithic societies because of a need to distribute resources such as food and meat equally to avoid famine and ensure a stable food supply.”

Where did we go wrong? 

Answer, Money.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

Trevrev said:


> It's cool...


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## campagman (4 Jun 2013)

Have you seen the MDA UK group?
I've been following this lifestyle for 12 mths now and think it's good. I'm eating and cooking foods that I wouldn't have thought about before. Paleo Granola for breakfast is a favourite.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

@campagman, I haven't buy will check it out. Paleo Granola you say?! Haven't found this yet... Need to get some!


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Jun 2013)

If someone tells you they are thinner and healthier on the Paleo Diet, ask them what they ate before. If the answer is cheese, hot dogs, fast food burgers and fries, donuts, cookies, chips, ice cream, white bread, bagels, and soda, there is your answer. At least on the Paleo Diet, they are avoiding dairy and processed foods and eating more fruits and veggies. Hence the improvement. This does not prove the Paleo Diet is the seventh wonder of the world which some people make it out to be.


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## ThinAir (4 Jun 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> If someone tells you they are thinner and healthier on the Paleo Diet, ask them what they ate before. If the answer is cheese, hot dogs, fast food burgers and fries, donuts, cookies, chips, ice cream, white bread, bagels, and soda, there is your answer. At least on the Paleo Diet, they are avoiding dairy and processed foods and eating more fruits and veggies. Hence the improvement. This does not prove the Paleo Diet is wonder some people make it out to be.



I did eat some of the above in moderation before starting Paleo, but its made me re-evaluate the way I look at food, not just evaluate what goes in my mouth


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## Mr Haematocrit (4 Jun 2013)

ThinAir said:


> I did eat some of the above in moderation before starting Paleo, but its made me re-evaluate the way I look at food, not just evaluate what goes in my mouth


 
So basically you cut rubbish out of your diet and saw improvements, you can do this by simply eating healthy. Following a supposed 'cave man' diet surrounded with myth and mis-information is not required.
I believe in science, I am yet to see any science supporting the claims made by Paleo


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## ThinAir (5 Jun 2013)

I'm not seeking scientific proof, and yes I've cut out the crap from my diet, as well as various other things, and fortunately, I've found something (finally) that works for me :-) not saying it will work got everyone, but glad that I've discovered something that I can stick to :-D


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## Ningishzidda (5 Jun 2013)

A lot of people make the mistake of confusing Paleo with Neolithic.
The Paleo is before farming. Early Paleo is before fire.
Any 'Paleo' website which suggest you cook something in a metal container or even a large crock pot, they are talking BS.

You can roast meat and vegges on sticks above an open hearth. You CANNOT use pots, pans, an oven, and definitely NOT a microwave.
Before the duluge, meat was cooked on an open hearth, and called 'burned offerings'. Vegetables were slowly cooked wetted, wrapped in leaves and placed on the hot embers. Fruit was eaten raw.
Some vegges can be eaten raw. This is good because it takes so long to digest, and takes more calories to perform the digestion. Think Chimps.


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## ThinAir (5 Jun 2013)

Microwave should be a "no no" anyway... It's not proper cooking whether you are doing Paleo, weight watchers or tbs rustlers burger diet!


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## campagman (5 Jun 2013)

ThinAir said:


> Paleo Granola you say?! Haven't found this yet... Need to get some!


Unfortunately, it's homemade. Paleo has re-inspired my interest in cooking.


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## ThinAir (5 Jun 2013)

campagman said:


> Unfortunately, it's homemade. Paleo has re-inspired my interest in cooking.



That's something else I'd say its done for me. I used to cook all the time, but then just found myself in a rut, doing the easy stuff all the time. I have to be extra creative coz I have a nut allergy, which rules out a lot of good fats and protein sources!


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## HardPlant (2 Jul 2013)

Im a Vegan, so the im the exact oppsite, i didn't know what Paleo is before i went vegan and after i went vegan i found out, im not really that impressed, most if not all paleo book authors are overweight. Besides, if you take vitamin supplements or such you are not paleo anymore since people back then didn't have any of these things


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## redcard (2 Jul 2013)

HardPlant said:


> Im a Vegan, so the im the exact oppsite, i didn't know what Paleo is before i went vegan and after i went vegan i found out, im not really that impressed, most if not all paleo book authors are overweight. Besides, if you take vitamin supplements or such you are not paleo anymore since people back then didn't have any of these things


 
Overweight? Mark Sisson or Robb Wolf aren't overweight at all. Would be interesting if you could name some fatties...

The argument about vitamin supplements has been done - it's primal philosophy adapted for modern times. No one is trying to pretend they're eating like a cavemen did. The vegetables we have these days bear absolutely no resemblance to back then - again, no one is pretending otherwise.

Anyway, I switched to a paleo-type diet last week. Cut out all artificial foods, all wheat and bread products, most dairy. Dropped below 70KG for the first time in years, and i feel great.


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## redcard (2 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I believe in science, I am yet to see any science supporting the claims made by Paleo


 
I presume that's because you haven't looked :P

There's absolutely tons.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> I presume that's because you haven't looked :P
> 
> There's absolutely tons.


 
In Africa there has always been a high level of food available from a animal meat source as such the majority of the evolution was based around hunting, while in colder climates such as east European man the diet has historically been based around root vegetables and grains.... Show me any evidence that historically one diet is good for all, or that the environment does not impact the diet.
The paleolithic diet is a modern dietary regimen that seeks to mimic the diet of preagricultural hunter-gatherer from one region and suggest that its suitable for everyone, or was once the diet of everyone.
A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following.These results were repeated in the 2012 survey.

Now I would be most happy to read any independent evidence, or research from someone who has not written a book, or actively gains financially from the diet stating that its the great thing many people suggest it is... I am unable to find any such highly respected dietary experts advising this diet, however I presume that's because I haven't looked hard enough, but if there loads of independent evidence I'm hoping you can point the way for me :P


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## redcard (2 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> In Africa there has always been a high level of food available from a animal meat source as such the majority of the evolution was based around hunting, while in colder climates such as east European man the diet has historically been based around root vegetables and grains.... Show me any evidence that historically one diet is good for all, or that the environment does not impact the diet.
> The paleolithic diet is a modern dietary regimen that seeks to mimic the diet of preagricultural hunter-gatherer from one region and suggest that its suitable for everyone, or was once the diet of everyone.
> A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following.These results were repeated in the 2012 survey.
> 
> Now I would be most happy to read any independent evidence, or research from someone who has not written a book, or actively gains financially from the diet stating that its the great thing many people suggest it is... I am unable to find any such highly respected dietary experts advising this diet, however I presume that's because I haven't looked hard enough, but if there loads of independent evidence I'm hoping you can point the way for me :P


 
Well, if your primary source is the US News report, who used as their benchmark the US Government's nutritional recommendations, which has made the US the 2nd fattest country in the world, then I wouldn't really expect the Paleo diet to fare very well.

It's not one-size-fits-all. The books are generalised information, which the authors are clear about - it's up to the individual to find out what works and what doesn't.


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## HardPlant (2 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> Overweight? Mark Sisson or Robb Wolf aren't overweight at all. Would be interesting if you could name some fatties...
> 
> The argument about vitamin supplements has been done - it's primal philosophy adapted for modern times. No one is trying to pretend they're eating like a cavemen did. The vegetables we have these days bear absolutely no resemblance to back then - again, no one is pretending otherwise.
> 
> Anyway, I switched to a paleo-type diet last week. Cut out all artificial foods, all wheat and bread products, most dairy. Dropped below 70KG for the first time in years, and i feel great.


 

Well i took my opinion from this video: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4
I know it's biased but im guessing low carb high fat is still pretty much the same as paleo. Now i dont want this to turn into some flame war but im pretty certain that veganism will benefit you more as you get older and im pretty sure vegans would live longer. And factory farming causes so much pollution. Sad how cars get a bad name because of pollution while infact raising animals for food causes way more pollution. Besides i dont have to limit my calories either. I eat more than 500 grams of carbs a day, i should be eating around 900 grams but im working on it.







Sorry if i was a little rough but that's just my opinion.


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## ThinAir (2 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> Overweight? Mark Sisson or Robb Wolf aren't overweight at all. Would be interesting if you could name some fatties...
> 
> 
> Anyway, I switched to a paleo-type diet last week. Cut out all artificial foods, all wheat and bread products, most dairy. Dropped below 70KG for the first time in years, and i feel great.



Coupled with my exercise regime and other stuff, I.e. cycling and playing other sports, I shifted 9lbs last week, and the food has pretty much clicked into place. I've found some really good foods that I would not have eaten before, and I am really enjoying everything now.

Stopped smoking as well (been well over a month now), So I can actually taste things now, it's wicked :-)

I haven't seen any scientific proof, but again, that's probably because I haven't looked, but the rests I am getting are speaking for themselves.


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## Mr Haematocrit (2 Jul 2013)

Never smoked, do not drink alcohol on a regular basis, I do not eat a lot of sweets or chocolates, or eat vast quantities of processed low quality food. I eat fish, nuts, berrys and all kinds of fresh meat. I drink water and live an active lifestyle. The result is that I have never weighed more than nine and a half stone.
I have never followed any particular diet I have just tried to make sensible choices. I'm currently cutting working towards cutting caffeine and processed sugar completely from my consumption intake


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## redcard (12 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Never smoked, do not drink alcohol on a regular basis, I do not eat a lot of sweets or chocolates, or eat vast quantities of processed low quality food. I eat fish, nuts, berrys and all kinds of fresh meat. I drink water and live an active lifestyle. The result is that I have never weighed more than nine and a half stone.
> I have never followed any particular diet I have just tried to make sensible choices. I'm currently cutting working towards cutting caffeine and processed sugar completely from my consumption intake



You're pretty much following what paleo dieters would recognise as a paleo-style diet. 

You didn't mention bread or pasta. Is your carb consumption lower than average?


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## Mr Haematocrit (12 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> You're pretty much following what paleo dieters would recognise as a paleo-style diet.
> 
> You didn't mention bread or pasta. Is your carb consumption lower than average?


 

Not really, I eat a fair amount of wholemeal pasta, wholemeal rice. I consume a lot of wholemeal wraps instead of sandwiches which I take to work simply because I prefer the taste. I don't avoid bread and eat it when needed such as Saturday is french stick and Bacon and mushroom day. Nothing else will do.
Only things I'm trying to avoid is Caffeine and Sugar.. not as good at it as I would like either


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## araapatlio (17 Jul 2013)

I was vegetarian for about 17 years, from 9 to 26, then I started to eat meat again, for health reasons. I'm relatively palaeo but still transitioning, it is difficult to get rid of some things, especially when rice is so cheap and easy to cook. I eat little bread anymore. I do like the occasional ice cream - and I also wear VFFs...


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> and I also wear VFFs...


 
Very interesting shoe, developed for gripping the surface of a slippy boat deck, promoted as a running shoe. The professionals who treat foot injury have a low opinion of these shoes, and have seen an increase in metatarsal stress fractures in users of these shoes as can be seen on podiatry forums the net over.
Vibram also have a class action law suit ongoing over the claims they make regarding the shoes.

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=48566
http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/update-on-the-vibram-fivefingers-class-action/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/barefoot-running-injuries_n_1536017.html
http://www.runningbarefootisbad.com

So if your thinking about running in them, I would advise reading some research from professionals rather than the barefoot zealots which are rife on running forums... If you want to run barefoot, take your shoes off.

Disclaimer.. I do run, and I have a pair of VFF as they are comfortable for walking round the office. I do not run in them


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## slowmotion (17 Jul 2013)

I thought that this thread was about those Sardinian blokes riding horses recklessly in Sienna. Where do vegetables come into the equation?


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## Blue Hills (17 Jul 2013)

ThinAir said:


> Microwave should be a "no no" anyway... It's not proper cooking whether you are doing Paleo, weight watchers or tbs rustlers burger diet!


ù
Tell me more ThinAir- I don't have a microwave and have never felt the need for one, but why isn't it cooking? Any health/nutrition issues with this "non cooking" ?


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## araapatlio (17 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> So if your thinking about running in them, I would advise reading some research from professionals rather than the barefoot zealots which are rife on running forums... If you want to run barefoot, take your shoes off.
> 
> Disclaimer.. I do run, and I have a pair of VFF as they are comfortable for walking round the office. I do not run in them


 

I ran in them for about a year and a half, without any real problem but I've not been able to run for a while (due to a knee injury, combination of over-training, aggravated at karate).

VFFs are great to run in, but the biggest problem is that people who are used to running in Asics and heel-planting often don't take the necessary adjustment time and are midfoot/ball of the foot. 

I'd recommend them to anyone as comfortable shoes, but if you want to run in them, you've really got to take sufficient time to get used to them.


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## araapatlio (17 Jul 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Only things I'm trying to avoid is Caffeine and Sugar.. not as good at it as I would like either


 

I'm sure I read somewhere that cavemen drank coffee. That's my line and I'm sticking to it...


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## Ningishzidda (18 Jul 2013)

Cyclists.
Check the NHS BMI chart.
Add on 2 stones for the 14 lb of muscle between Thoracic cage and ankles.


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## ThinAir (18 Jul 2013)

Blue Hills said:


> ù
> Tell me more ThinAir- I don't have a microwave and have never felt the need for one, but why isn't it cooking? Any health/nutrition issues with this "non cooking" ?


I don't think that there any health or nutrition issues. I just think its cheating!


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## Ningishzidda (18 Jul 2013)

To be on a true 'Paleo' diet, you have to find somewhere where salt has been exposed by errosion, and lick it every day.


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## araapatlio (18 Jul 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> To be on a true 'Paleo' diet, you have to find somewhere where salt has been exposed by errosion, and lick it every day.


 

I only use pink Himalayan salt. I bought it online in big batches (to save on the postage!) a while ago , but it seems that you may be able to get it from health-food stores now.


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## Ningishzidda (19 Jul 2013)

araapatlio said:


> I only use pink Himalayan salt. I bought it online in big batches (to save on the postage!) a while ago , but it seems that you may be able to get it from health-food stores now.


 There wasn't an 'Internet' or a 'postal service' 12,500 years ago.
Go figure.


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## Blue Hills (19 Jul 2013)

ThinAir said:


> I don't think that there any health or nutrition issues. I just think its cheating!


Ok, thanks for the reply.

I lean towards the same luddite view


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## araapatlio (19 Jul 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> There wasn't an 'Internet' or a 'postal service' 12,500 years ago.
> Go figure.


 
Hahaha, great response. Touché


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## Ningishzidda (19 Jul 2013)

The theory behind the microwave oven was discovered by accident. Engineers standing in front of RADAR transmitters found they became unable to father children.


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## Ningishzidda (19 Jul 2013)

An actual microwave oven was discovered by accident. Gold miners in California came across a wooden crate in a cave in 1883. Inside the crate was a metal box which resembled a flimsy safe. They took it to Sacramanto museum, who not knowing what it was, kept it in a storeroom until the 1920s, when the Smithsonian museum took it for research and it was not seen again.


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## redcard (21 Jul 2013)

85% chocolate is minging, no matter how much I try convince myself it isn't.


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## araapatlio (21 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> 85% chocolate is minging, no matter how much I try convince myself it isn't.


 

Try melting it, mixing it with nuts, raisins, coconut etc and some coconut oil and leave it to set again. Delicious.


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## ThinAir (21 Jul 2013)

redcard said:


> 85% chocolate is minging, no matter how much I try convince myself it isn't.


I've cut so much sweet stuff out now, other than some fruits, that 85%cocoa chocolate tastes like having angels dancing in my mouth!


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## Ghost Donkey (23 Jul 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> The theory behind the microwave oven was discovered by accident. Engineers standing in front of RADAR transmitters found they became unable to father children.


 
Indeed, there were no women with them.


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## Ningishzidda (24 Jul 2013)

An actual microwave oven was discovered by accident. Gold prospectors found a wooden crate in a cave high up in California's Sierra Nevada mountains. Inside the crate was a metal box that looked like a flimsy safe.
It stayed in Sacremento University's store rooms for sixty years until scientists from the Smithsonian museum took it away, never to be seen again.


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