# World Cycling Championship Florence 22 - 29 September 2013



## The Couch (4 Sep 2013)

An interesting comment from Gilbert made me want to start this thread:

In a cycling magazine, Gilbert has made the comment "I do not work for someone else".
Quite a statement for someone who hasn't won a race yet this year and hasn't even got many podiumfinishes - in the races that suit him -. Whatever the leader of the team would be for Belgium, they ain't gonna be among the favourites this year, but still... as coach of the national team or as teammate I wouldn't like to hear statements like that.


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## rich p (4 Sep 2013)

Reading between the lines of his comments pre-TDF, I get the impression that Phil isn't entirely happy at BMC and is ticked off at having to play second fiddle to someone in what he probably assumed would be his year of glory in the rainbow stripes. Maybe he feels his status as world champ means the team should be working for him alone. Who else in the Belgian team would the parcours suit better?


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## The Couch (4 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> ... Who else in the Belgian team would the parcours suit better?


Well.. as said before this year Belgium can't really put any favourite "on the table"... but they have people who should perhaps be entitled co-leadership (or at least "free role") like Van Avermaet, Meersman and Bakelandts. Without his fall, you could have perhaps put De Clercq with those names as well ... and nobody can predict what form/interest De Gendt would have on the day.


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## oldroadman (4 Sep 2013)

Hard circuit and anything can happen, it's wide open. Even Froome may be in with a shout - it's that difficult when repeated over multiple laps. Can't see a sprinter getting to the finish near the front, Gilbert may have something as a puncheur may be the best type of rider for this course. Except he is going like a dog at the moment, but ridig better each day in Spain, which is how things worked out last time.


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## raindog (4 Sep 2013)

Has anyone seen a profile for the TT course?


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## thom (4 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> Has anyone seen a profile for the TT course?


flat as a pancake


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## raindog (4 Sep 2013)

cheers thom - if that lump was a bit further towards the left, I would've taken it for the start ramp


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## thom (4 Sep 2013)




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## oldroadman (4 Sep 2013)

ITT course looks made for Spartacus, Martin, Wiggins. Though in which order is the question. Spartacus looked brutal today in Spain, Tony Martin very close, Wiggo is presumably away working with the coaches. The short ITT in the Tour of Britian might give a pointer to where his form is at with just a week to go.


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## rich p (4 Sep 2013)

The men's road race looks interesting - it will be a case of conserving enough energy for all of the 10 climbs of the Fiesole. Strangely they omly give a profile of the previous once-only climbs AFAICS
http://www.toscana2013.it/gara-in-linea29092013/#uomini-elite


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## thom (4 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> The men's road race looks interesting - it will be a case of conserving enough energy for all of the 10 climbs of the Fiesole. Strangely they omly give a profile of the previous once-only climbs AFAICS
> http://www.toscana2013.it/gara-in-linea29092013/#uomini-elite


is this it ? http://www.toscana2013.it/circuito-iridato/
I think they just put the loop as a separate reused section on their site


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## rich p (4 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> is this it ? http://www.toscana2013.it/circuito-iridato/
> I think they just put the loop as a separate reused section on their site


 Indeed it is Thom! Good work!
4.3km, max 9%, average 5.2% (x 10)


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## The Couch (4 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Indeed it is Thom! Good work!
> 4.3km, max 9%, average 5.2% (x 10)


So also flat as a pancake?

(compared with the Vuelta)


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## rich p (4 Sep 2013)

The Couch said:


> So also flat as a pancake?
> 
> (compared with the Vuelta)


 I guess if you make your pancakes on a griddle!
The Vuelta is hors crépe!


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## RedRider (9 Sep 2013)

Just back from Lucca where the 'road' round the top of the city wall's being resurfaced in prep for the road race roll-out. Should look spectacular.


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## thom (9 Sep 2013)

RedRider said:


> Just back from Lucca where the 'road' round the top of the city wall's being resurfaced in prep for the road race roll-out. Should look spectacular.


Are they starting on the Luccasian ramparts ? I rode round it last year - a very pretty town, much nicer than Pisa.


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## RedRider (9 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Are they starting on the Luccasian ramparts ? I rode round it last year - a very pretty town, much nicer than Pisa.


Yeah, gorgeous town. I was told they're starting on the Piazza S Michele and then a circuit of the ramparts before racing to Florence.


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## thom (10 Sep 2013)

GB Team - road races led by Froome & Armitstead (Pooley backup)

Men's elite road race – eight places qualified
Mark Cavendish, Steve Cummings, Alex Dowsett, Josh Edmondson, Andy Fenn, Chris Froome, Luke Rowe, Ian Stannard, Geraint Thomas, Jon Tiernan Locke, Bradley Wiggins

Men's elite time trial
Alex Dowsett, Sir Bradley Wiggins

Women's elite road race – six places qualified
Lizzie Armitstead, Katie Colclough, Nikki Harris, Lucy Garner, Sharon Laws, Emma Pooley

Women's elite time trial
Emma Pooley

U23 men's road race – six places qualified
Jon Dibben, Owain Doull, Tom Moses, Joe Perrett, Alex Peters, Alistair Slater, Adam Yates, Simon Yates

U23 men's time trial
Joe Perrett

Junior men's road race
Scott Davies, Tao Geoghegan Hart, Matt Gibson, James Knox

Junior men's time trial
Matt Gibson

Junior women's road race
Anna Christian, Bethany Hayward


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## Buddfox (10 Sep 2013)

Was looking at this earlier... couldn't work out if Cav would be in the road race team. Hard to see any point in him doing it? Likewise I assume Wiggins and Dowsett just do the TT. I guess Stannard and Thomas (and Froome) are locks for the RR team. Beyond that - Rowe and JTL?


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## thom (10 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Beyond that - Rowe and JTL?


I read somewhere JTL had fluffed his lines a bit by overtraining a few months ago. He had been aiming for the Vuelta but had fatigued himself so didn't go. I think he isn't doing the Tour of Britain but must be slated for something else in the run up.


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## ColinJ (10 Sep 2013)

I thought that Emma Pooley had either retired, or decided to take a year or two away from competition?


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## rich p (10 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> I read somewhere JTL had fluffed his lines a bit by overtraining a few months ago. He had been aiming for the Vuelta but had fatigued himself so didn't go. I think he isn't doing the Tour of Britain but must be slated for something else in the run up.


 I read that his only objective this year was to try to perform at the Tour of Beijing. The article I read (and can't find again) said that the training had been too fatiguing and he'd raced through it. Maybe just a learning curve


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## rich p (10 Sep 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I thought that Emma Pooley had either retired, or decided to take a year or two away from competition?


 Nope!


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## ColinJ (10 Sep 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I thought that Emma Pooley had either retired, or decided to take a year or two away from competition?





rich p said:


> Nope!


She did think about it, but changed her mind!


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## The Couch (19 Sep 2013)

At least in the last weeks Belgium has given some hope that they should at leats be concidered dangerous:
GIlbert (finally) winning something in the Vuelta and showing signs of better climbing
Van Avermaet collecting some close finishes in Canada
Bakelants winning the GP de Wallonie yesterday

Can't see them taking too much responsibility (they only have 7 riders), that should be for the other countries who have either one clear leader and favourite (Suisse, Slovakia) or who have a wealth of strong riders (Italy, Spain, Columbia).

Anybody thinks "outsiders" like Froome, Costa, Voeckler, D. Martin, Gerrans,... (anyone else?) would have a good chance?


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## VamP (19 Sep 2013)

Styby thinks the main favourites are Gilbert (!), Cancellara and Sagan. In that order. He himself has yet to confirm he's riding.


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## The Couch (19 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Styby thinks the main favourites are Gilbert (!), Cancellara and Sagan. In that order. He himself has yet to confirm he's riding.


Styby is "half Belgian"  he's not objective 
Nevertheless it does make sense that they would the top-favourites... they are 3 riders who have proven they can win on similar parcours and have won many 1-day races

But I'm always looking for an under-the-radar name to mention around 
...like someone said on here that Martin had a very good climb in the Fleche Wallon, so I had a guess on him to win Liege-Bastoigne-Liege...of course I am now considered "the cycling predictor" around here... so I need to keep my reputation up


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## VamP (19 Sep 2013)

The Couch said:


> Styby is "half Belgian"  he's not objective
> Nevertheless it does make sense that they would the top-favourites... they are 3 riders who have proven they can win on similar parcours and have won many 1-day races
> 
> But I'm always looking for an under-the-radar name to mention around
> ...like someone said on here that Martin had a very good climb in the Fleche Wallon, so I had a guess on him to win Liege-Bastoigne-Liege...of course I am now considered "the cycling predictor" around here... so I need to keep my reputation up


 

Which half


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## Stonechat (20 Sep 2013)

Cancellara going for treble of Road Race , TT and team TT
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-focused-on-the-road-race-at-florence-worlds


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## Buddfox (20 Sep 2013)

GB team announced today: Mark Cavendish, Steve Cummings, Josh Edmondson, Chris Froome, Ian Stannard, Geraint Thomas, Jon Tiernan Locke, Sir Bradley Wiggins (with Wiggo and Dowsett going for the time trial).

Women's team: Lizzie Armitstead, Katie Colclough, Nikki Harris, Lucy Garner

So Wiggo's doing both and JTL made it. Not sure if Brailsford is hedging his bets on the road race, but it's hard to see Wiggo or Froome riding for one or the other?


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## rich p (21 Sep 2013)

Interesting. I didn't imagine that Wiggins would ride for Froome but I'm glad he seems to have come to terms with it all, and is acting like a team player.
Having seen Froome's futile attack on the last hill of the Montreal race last week which was nullified in a flash, it's hard to know whether he'll have the form to win it.


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## thom (22 Sep 2013)

OPQS win the TTT by 0.81 secs from Orica Greenedge. Blooming heck...

Specilized Lululemon win the Women's TTT from Rabo & Orica women


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## The Couch (23 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> OPQS win the TTT by 0.81 secs from Orica Greenedge.


With less than 1 second... now, that's irony


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## rich p (24 Sep 2013)

After the young'uns have performed, it's onto the big one for British hopes tomorrow.
Wiggo in the TT. Should be a close run affair with Canc, Tony M and whoever else has a good day.


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## Stonechat (24 Sep 2013)

Pooley is not riding, but concentrating on her PhD


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## Dave Davenport (24 Sep 2013)

Is there any TV coverage?


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Sep 2013)

Dave Davenport said:


> Is there any TV coverage?


BBC Red Button covered today's. BBC2 tomorrow 13:30 - 17:00.


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## dragon72 (24 Sep 2013)

Not one British lady in the ITT??


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## Supersuperleeds (24 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> After the young'uns have performed, it's onto the big one for British hopes tomorrow.
> Wiggo in the TT. Should be a close run affair with Canc, Tony M and whoever else has a good day.



For those at work, I think this is live on the BBC website


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## tigger (24 Sep 2013)

So... predictions for tomorrow? I'm going for Wiggo by at least 40 secs


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Sep 2013)

Supersuperleeds said:


> For those at work, I think this is live on the BBC website


Yes, probably this channel - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24038887 - from 12:00. Red button from 12:00, BBC2 from 13:40.


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## deptfordmarmoset (24 Sep 2013)

tigger said:


> So... predictions for tomorrow? I'm going for Wiggo by at least 40 secs


No long ramps - I'll go for 23 secs.


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## SWSteve (25 Sep 2013)

I hope Wiggins by 2 minutes. He'll have an absolute barn stormer now he has won the golden jersey


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

I think Tony Martin is slight favourite for today. I imagine if Wiggo gets it it won't be by more than about 30 secs.


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## Stonechat (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> I think Tony Martin is slight favourite for today. I imagine if Wiggo gets it it won't be by more than about 30 secs.


Think Wiggins at best can win, but how good will he be today


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## VamP (25 Sep 2013)

Tony Martin going to push 58 x 11 all the way today! He just has to be the favourite, the profile suits him absolutely, let's see what Bradley brings, I can't see Spartacus winning it today TBH.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Tony Martin going to push 58 x 11 all the way today! He just has to be the favourite, the profile suits him absolutely, let's see what Bradley brings, I can't see Spartacus winning it today TBH.



With Cancellara really wanting the road race it's definitely between Wiggins and Martin. I think Wiggins will win it - just a feeling. And I just can't see why the course suits Martin more: it's long, pretty much pan-flat with only one tiny lump. As Wiggins said in the interview on cyclingnews - because of the length it will just come down to who can best sustain the power and overcome the boredom!


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

It's going to be close, I know that much. But the fact that Tony Martin sets off three minutes after Wiggo, and 1.30 after Spartacus, gives him a slight advantage, so I'm backing him to retain the title.

Are we ruling Taylor Phinney out of contention? He was only six seconds off first place last year, and he's still only 23... I wouldn't be too surprised if he comes second to Martin again. Tbh, after the season Phinney has had, I'd love it if he won almost as much as if Wiggo won.


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## raindog (25 Sep 2013)

l'Equipe article in English on TTing
http://www.lequipe.fr/explore/clock-hunters/
there's an amazing photo of Anquetil in action that I've never seen before


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## VamP (25 Sep 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> With Cancellara really wanting the road race it's definitely between Wiggins and Martin. I think Wiggins will win it - just a feeling. And I just can't see why the course suits Martin more: it's long, pretty much pan-flat with only one tiny lump. As Wiggins said in the interview on cyclingnews - because of the length it will just come down to who can best sustain the power and overcome the boredom!


 
A few ramps and corners would play into Bradley's hands. But I do agree it's going to be close between these two.

In other news: Kreuziger and Konig both pull out due to infections picked up at the Vuelta developing further complications.


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## VamP (25 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's going to be close, I know that much. But the fact that Tony Martin sets off three minutes after Wiggo, and 1.30 after Spartacus, gives him a slight advantage, so I'm backing him to retain the title.
> 
> Are we ruling Taylor Phinney out of contention? He was only six seconds off first place last year, and he's still only 23... I wouldn't be too surprised if he comes second to Martin again. Tbh, after the season Phinney has had, I'd love it if he won almost as much as if Wiggo won.


 
No we shouldn't rule Phinney out.


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> No we shouldn't rule Phinney out.



Slightly surprised his name hasn't come up in discussion already, tbh.


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Slightly surprised his name hasn't come up in discussion already, tbh.


Fair point - I forgot him.
I think though that Martin will have better form than last year (he'd been badly injured earlier in the season) and so Phinney will have to step up again to make an appearance on the podium given the increased competition.


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## deptfordmarmoset (25 Sep 2013)

I don't know if anybody else was struck by Wiggins' interview on telly after winning the ToB. There was no air of ''Great, I've done it!'' It seemed a bit churlish at first but it became clear that he was fully preoccupied with today's race. He wasn't in a mood for celebrating a few days before the big one. He's completely focused on this race and when he's that focused....


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> l'Equipe article in English on TTing
> http://www.lequipe.fr/explore/clock-hunters/
> there's an amazing photo of Anquetil in action that I've never seen before



Yes, great pics of Anquetil.

Looking at the Espada now, one thing strikes me as odd, and dates it somewhat - external cables!


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> I think though that Martin will have better form than last year (he'd been badly injured earlier in the season) and so Phinney will have to step up again to make an appearance on the podium given the increased competition.



True - no Wiggo or Cancellara last year, so we don't really know how hard Martin was pushed...

I was just looking at the records to see if anyone had won the TT three times in a row before. Mick Rogers has done it, though the first of the three was 2003 when Millar finished first but was retrospectively disqualified. And Cancellara may well have won it five times in a row if he'd defended the title in 2008 - he didn't because he was worn out after a long, hard season, though he did win the Olympic TT and came a close third* in the road race, which shows he's quite capable of living up to his stated ambition for this year.


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## The Couch (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> ... I think though that Martin will have better form than last year (he'd been badly injured earlier in the season) ...


Correct, he had the nasty fall hurting his wrist in the Tour de France... if I am not mistaken, he is still having some small troubles with it and is planning to get it operated (again, I assume) when the season is done
(Don't know where I read this, but I'm pretty sure about it)
But.. if what I recall is correct... Martin is still not 100% free of it (although I am assuming pretty close to it, otherwise he wouldn't wait until the end of the season) and could still be stronger.

I believe Martin is considered by most the big favourite (on the Belgian "Sporza" website, he gets 62% of the surfer votes)... but if I would be a betting man, I'd go for Wiggo (the Brit is a bit underappreciated on Sporza and only gets 10% votes )

FYI:
Fabian gets 22% votes
Then again, the voters could be easily questioned since 2.5% of voters believe in Thomas De Gendt and 1.5% in Kristof Vandewalle, while only 1% in Phinney


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## totallyfixed (25 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Not one British lady in the ITT??


The lack of response to your question is indicative of all that is wrong with British Cycling, something that a lot of us are trying to change both at amateur and pro level. The whole sport is discriminatory in the deliberate and non deliberate sense.
Not strictly on subject but the OP deserved a response.


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## deptfordmarmoset (25 Sep 2013)

I think I just saw a clip of a TTer being attacked today by a cat. Tell me I'm not alone, please!


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## Veloscot (25 Sep 2013)

Can anyone tell me how they decide the starting order of the Worlds individual TT? Is it done by UCI points classification or something?


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Well they're on the road - the live GPS timing system is cool (on the BBC coverage) I wonder how accurate it is! At this early stage Cancellara is in the lead by three seconds from Martin... Wiggo as usual appears to be measuring his effort over the first part of the course.


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## Peter Armstrong (25 Sep 2013)

Wiggins - 0:12
Cancellara - 0:24
Martin - 0:20


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

They've also now added Phinney (ref comments above) who is pacing time with Wiggins. Siutsou just took 1st place at the finish for the Sky fans amongst us :-)


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## Peter Armstrong (25 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> They've also now added Phinney (ref comments above) who is pacing time with Wiggins. Siutsou just took 1st place at the finish for the Sky fans amongst us :-)


 Yeah just noticed that


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## Peter Armstrong (25 Sep 2013)

Its all over the place now


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Martin is flying, no doubt about that. My feeling is Cancellara has gone off too hard and will fade, and I'm hoping Wiggins really is saving his beans. Chavanel is third on the road at the moment, Wiggins only 6th. Quaade is the other rider in the mix, currently in fourth. It's all really tight though - very exciting!


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Wiggins does tend to finish strong and often produces a negative split. Fingers crossed.


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Yes, and he has now moved ahead of Phinney and moving past Quaade. Not sure how Chavanel is faring at this point. On a positive note, Wiggo has been holding his time gap to Cancellara and Martin at 24 secs and 34 secs consistent for a while now, hopefully he moves it on from here.


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## VamP (25 Sep 2013)

Brad is the master of negative split pacing, but then Tony is hardly a neophyte either. Either way I still think it's going to be really close between them.


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Hope so as it's nearly40 seconds!


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

Wowsers - Wiggo is 39 secs behind Martin - I think realistically it is between Cancellara and Martin now.


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Yeah Martin is looking imperiously strong at this point...


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

ooooh - 35 sec time differential now....


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Come on Wiggo...! No sign of Dowsett, incidentally...


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## RedRider (25 Sep 2013)

Live Coverage on 5Live Sports Extra for those away from TV...


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

I saw Quaade's name in the start list and thought: "Who he?"

Whoever he is, he looks like a bit useful.


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Dowsett a few minutes off pace i think.


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

I think Martin has this with Wiggins and then Fab taken 2nd and 3rd respectively.


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## Peter Armstrong (25 Sep 2013)

I hope Martin has over cooked


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Martin is bossing this, isn't he? Wiggo's getting faster but too much to do, surely. He might overhaul Cancellara though.


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## RecordAceFromNew (25 Sep 2013)

Looks like Spartacus is slowing, against both Martin and Wiggo.


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Yup Martin has this. Impressive. Wiggo silver maybe - he won't be chuffed.


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

12 seconds for Cancellara on Wiggo at the time check - Wiggo will have to pull something really special out of the bag to get second place.


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Yeah, seems Wiggo might get silver but can't see Martin being overhauled now


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

They keep mentioning Fabs cornering but it's Martin who is the expert at TT cornering. He does it without losing rhythm or pace.


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Wiggins now a second ahead of Cancellara!


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Chavanel faded badly, over two minutes down on Kiryienka. Quaade also faded badly


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

whoever gets second now, this has been great


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Slightly disappointed with Phinney, tbh.


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

Wiggo gets 2nd


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Wow, that was close!


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Wiggo by two seconds!!


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Close. Chapeau Martin. Total machine!


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## tug benson (25 Sep 2013)

Tony Martin is a machine


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

46 seconds is an enormous margin of victory in this context. Fantastic ride by Martin.


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## VamP (25 Sep 2013)

That is emphatic!


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

After his travails earlier in the season I'm delighted to see him win it (though I would have preferred a Wiggo victory!). What a ride - chapeau indeed


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## oldgreyandslow (25 Sep 2013)

he must be on something?


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## tigger (25 Sep 2013)

tigger said:


> I'm going for Wiggo in silver by at least 40 secs from Martin


 
Don't you just love it when you call it right?!


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

oldgreyandslow said:


> he must be on something?


Please, no. 

I like this thread!


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

tigger said:


> Don't you just love it when you call it right?!


I love your modesty. 

Good shout though.


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I think I just saw a clip of a TTer being attacked today by a cat. Tell me I'm not alone, please!


yes - there must have been riders with squeeky chains out there...


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## tigger (25 Sep 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I love your dishonesty.
> 
> .


 
fixed that for you


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## raindog (25 Sep 2013)

Massive rides from all three guys, but Tony Martin is just a machine. Amazing display.


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## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

oldgreyandslow said:


> he must be on something?



Yeah, a refined form of crack called "58x11"


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## deptfordmarmoset (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> yes - there must have been riders with squeeky chains out there...


Phew! I only caught it in the corner of my eye and it looked like the cat, feeling cornered, leapt at the rider. And watching it on BBC Red Button, the commentators had disappeared off for coffee and cake.


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## The Couch (25 Sep 2013)

The Couch said:


> I believe Martin is considered by most the big favourite (on the Belgian "Sporza" website, he gets 62% of the surfer votes)... but if I would be a betting man, I'd go for Wiggo (the Brit is a bit underappreciated on Sporza and only gets 10% votes )
> 
> FYI:
> Fabian gets 22% votes
> Then again, the voters could be easily questioned since 2.5% of voters believe in Thomas De Gendt and 1.5% in Kristof Vandewalle, while only 1% in Phinney


I guess the overall public knows what it's talking about and I don't ... but hey what's new 

...Then again, the 2.5% who voted for De Gendt were about 6 and a half minutes wrong and about 50 places


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## thom (25 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Phew! I only caught it in the corner of my eye and it looked like the cat, feeling cornered, leapt at the rider. And watching it on BBC Red Button, the commentators had disappeared off for coffee and cake.


I think it had decided not to cross the road and just didn't hear the bike until it passed, when it reacted.
A fraction of a second earlier and it might have been messy for both cat and rider.


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## Peter Armstrong (25 Sep 2013)

LOL "Near *cat*-astrophe in men's time trial"


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## beastie (25 Sep 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Yup Martin has this. Impressive. Wiggo silver maybe - he won't be chuffed.


I believe Wiggo rode without knowing or wanting to know any comparative times. He said something along the lines of - I have enough experience to just ride my own race, the fastest I can.- so he shouldn't be gutted if he did just that. Der Panzerwagen was just zu viel stark.


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## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Lifted from the BBC website:

"A good stat from BBC Sport's Jill Douglas. *Tony Martin* would have finished sixth on his own in Sunday's team time trial, which the German won with his Omega Pharam-QuickStep team, with the time he set in today's individual time trial. A remarkable ride."

Incredible ride from Martin!


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## Dayvo (25 Sep 2013)

Tony Martin looks like Lord Charles:


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## RecordAceFromNew (25 Sep 2013)

Der Panzerwagen is surely worth his weight in gold. Certainly bodes well for Cav's train next year, with him, Petacchi, and now Renshaw is also back. Can't wait!


----------



## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Der Panzerwagen is surely worth his weight in gold. Certainly bodes well for Cav's train next year, with him, Petacchi, and now Renshaw is also back. Can't wait!



Hmmm... not sure about this. Martin looked like a weak link in the OPQS train at the Tour, seemed to lose road position on a couple of occasions (including IIRC on the Champs Elysees).


----------



## thom (25 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Hmmm... not sure about this. Martin looked like a weak link in the OPQS train at the Tour, seemed to lose road position on a couple of occasions (including IIRC on the Champs Elysees).


To be fair, he ought not to have to be involved at that point if Steegmans, Petacchi & Renshaw are around.
Stick him on the front to bring back the break & job done - priceless.

But.... can you remember what I think was the last time Cav rode for HTC to Paris ? IIRC, they sent TM up the road with the break to force everyone else to chase, then Cav wasn't that well positioned coming to the Champs Elysee, whereupon TM rocked up on his left shoulder and dragged him up the field for another victory. I never saw any other rider make a difference like that. Your quote of Jill Douglas is really something too.

Much as it would have been nice to see Brad win, TM is a TT phenomenon (and he told Lance to fark off in the 2010 TdF ;-) ) - you've got to admire his performances.


----------



## smutchin (25 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Hmmm... not sure about this. Martin looked like a weak link in the OPQS train at the Tour, seemed to lose road position on a couple of occasions (including IIRC on the Champs Elysees).



He certainly went missing a few times this year, though to be fair he has had his injury problems - especially in the TdF. He was always Mr Reliable for Cav when they were at HTC, chugging away like a diesel on the front of the peloton for the last 20km, keeping the pace too high for anyone to attack.

[edit: cross-posted with thom...]


----------



## tigger (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> yes - there must have been riders with squeeky chains out there...


 
Made me wince that, I hit a cat at 35mph a couple of years ago = broken collarbone. I hit a rabbit the other day too although luckily I won that time. Wildlife and domestic animals don't seem to like me on a bike? 

Who says TT's are boring? Really enjoyed today. Great battle between Wiggo and Spartacus. Martin, wow he was just the man today, fastest on each sector that I could tell.


----------



## dellzeqq (25 Sep 2013)

3.17 pm. Wiggins finishes second
4.17 pm Evans offers Sky jerseys at 40% discount
o tempora, o mores!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (25 Sep 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 3.17 pm. Wiggins finishes second
> 4.17 pm Evans offers Sky jerseys at 40% discount
> o tempora, o mores!


I got the ''40% off Wiggo's wardrobe'' mailing at 14:43. You can't have spent enough with them.


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (25 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Hmmm... not sure about this. Martin looked like a weak link in the OPQS train at the Tour, seemed to lose road position on a couple of occasions (including IIRC on the Champs Elysees).



I think thom is right and we shouldn't pin the blame on Martin for Cav's lost. As you can see from here at 2km out OPQS was still in control with the TT specialists having done what they needed to do, but the train fell apart with the 2nd /3rd guy, particularly Trentin (I think) who did a really short turn leaving Steegmans with far too much to do, and Cav ending up doing it solo playing catch up (which he did to his credit) but running out of road. For sure Argos Shimano did a super job winning fair and square, but I suspect (and hope) it won't be so easy for them again next year.


----------



## Buddfox (25 Sep 2013)

Some good comments from Wiggo here in the Sky summary - he clearly seems happy with his ride, and that Martin is on another level:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8941246,00.html

Also, how great was Florence as a venue - really picturesque on the run in and great crowds


----------



## dellzeqq (25 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I got the ''40% off Wiggo's wardrobe'' mailing at 14:43. You can't have spent enough with them.


blimey - they must have had the time checks!


----------



## thom (25 Sep 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> blimey - they must have had the time checks!


I suspect the timing will also be related to an imminent new Rapha designed shirt for next season.
I think it will feature the color black heavily. And asymmetric splashes of blue.


----------



## dellzeqq (25 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> I suspect the timing will also be related to an imminent new Rapha designed shirt for next season.
> I think it will feature the color black heavily. And asymmetric splashes of blue.


OMG! We are so over black shirts with asymmetric splashes of colour!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (25 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Some good comments from Wiggo here in the Sky summary - he clearly seems happy with his ride, and that Martin is on another level:
> 
> http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8941246,00.html
> 
> Also, how great was Florence as a venue - really picturesque on the run in and great crowds


Yeh he sounds pretty happy to be riding his bike let alone winning silver. Hat off to the man. 

Florence is a beautiful city. Spent a week there 2 years back, it was simply stunning.


----------



## Bollo (25 Sep 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> OMG! We are so over black shirts with asymmetric splashes of colour!


But black is so slimming dahling.


----------



## SWSteve (25 Sep 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> 3.17 pm. Wiggins finishes second
> 4.17 pm Evans offers Sky jerseys at 40% discount
> o tempora, o mores!



Saw this around lunchtime today, I guess it's more to do with shifting stock + he won the ToB


----------



## Bollo (25 Sep 2013)

I was alittle too close to the MD today to fire up iplayer, so Mrs Dr Bollo, working from home and following on tv, fed me regular emails in the style of the grauniad 'Minute by minute' coverage. Somehow made it just as exciting. I thank her publicly.


----------



## dragon72 (25 Sep 2013)

OPQS aside, Sky have some pretty hefty engines too. 3 Sky riders in the top 10 today. It's pretty impressive.


----------



## Bollo (25 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> OPQS aside, Sky have some pretty hefty engines too. 3 Sky riders in the top 10 today. It's pretty impressive.


I've just had a look at the slightly baffling official route graphic and I've absolutely no idea who that course would suit. I'll take a punt on a breakaway sticking while the big boys mark each other out of it.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (26 Sep 2013)

It's not often you see a podium that is the perfect reflection of who is the best in the world right now, but that men's ITT podium really is one of those. Not much to argue with there, whatever Taylor Phinney says about dropping his bottle - he was minutes behind not seconds.


----------



## jifdave (26 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> OPQS aside, Sky have some pretty hefty engines too. 3 Sky riders in the top 10 today. It's pretty impressive.


Add froomie to that he would have been top 10 too. Shame the team TTT was without wiggo. Would hv made sky a lot closer to opqs


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

The U23 race is live here :


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

Simon Yates attacks the peloton

50 km to go - 3 leaders out front, Eritrean, Latvian & a Slovenian with 3 laps to go


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

the Eritrean rider has looked mighty all race.


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

just as i type that he drops off a bit. he's been out in front for most of the race though.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

laurence said:


> the Eritrean rider has looked mighty all race.


I got the impression from the commentary that he's not signed to anybody for next year.


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

Funny - Sebastian Henao started off as Sergio Henao's brother. Now he's his cousin. Is that possible through divorce or something ?


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

4 riders out front - 2 are French

Edit : 1 now but both Yates brother well placed in the peloton


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

it's all kicked off - great racing


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Funny - Sebastian Henao started off as Sergio Henao's brother. Now he's his cousin. Is that possible through divorce or something ?


 
It's possible to be both, but usually there's a bit of incest involved.


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

Future looking bright for France.


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

1 lap to go - 2 riders, French & Slovenian ( I think) have 23 secs on the peloton.


----------



## Buddfox (27 Sep 2013)

Looks like it's coming back together... come on the Yates's!


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

Buddfox said:


> Looks like it's coming back together... come on the Yates's!


it's funny how they make junctions these days - they used to make junctures...


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

How is he getting 'Mawrick' out of Mohoric? Mo- HO -Rich. Come on it's not that hard.


----------



## SWSteve (27 Sep 2013)

Has the commentator ever seen cycling?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> How is he getting 'Mawrick' out of Mohoric? Mo- HO -Rich. Come on it's not that hard.


He certainly didn't put the slow in Slovenia!


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

But at least he has noticed there are no tri bars.


----------



## Buddfox (27 Sep 2013)

Agh no video! Is the Slovenian going to stay away?


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

Cracking ride by the Slovenian Mohuric - gotta get this now


----------



## SWSteve (27 Sep 2013)

Looks like it


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> But at least he has noticed there are no tri bars.


I'm surprised the UCI haven't banned invisible aero bars.


----------



## Stonechat (27 Sep 2013)

well done mohoric


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

the new Cancellara? that was a stunning ride. what a descender.


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

Great ride by Mohoric. He can't believe it.


----------



## rich p (27 Sep 2013)

Superb effort - he looked very Sagan-like!


----------



## Stonechat (27 Sep 2013)

Intereseting article in the Times today about Gino Bartali
He won TdF either side of the war and apparently little known fact that he used his celebrity status to get through checkoints on his bike to to deliver messages for the resistance.
Nibalis seems taken by him, he was from Florence
(If I post the link yo cant read as it is subscription service)


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

Stonechat said:


> Intereseting article in the Times today about Gino Bartali
> He won TdF either side of the war and apparently little known fact that he used his celebrity status to get through checkoints on his bike to to deliver messages for the resistance.
> Nibalis seems taken by him, he was from Florence
> (If I post the link yo cant read as it is subscription service)



i read the book on this, it was very interesting. Bartali seems to have been overlooked due to Coppi, but was an incredible rider, just didn't get to show it due to the war.


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

After all that, who'd do you reckon for Sunday ?
Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara ?

Without a team it will be hard for Sagan - Gilbert is my tip.


----------



## rich p (27 Sep 2013)

I think Sagan will wing it and win it!


----------



## SWSteve (27 Sep 2013)

Sagan wins by bunny hopping the competition when in bunch sprint

You heard it here first


----------



## Noodley (27 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> After all that, who'd do you reckon for Sunday ?
> Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara ?
> 
> Without a team it will be hard for Sagan - Gilbert is my tip.


 
Will Gilbert want another year of being jinxed?


----------



## Stonechat (27 Sep 2013)

Think it will be a strong rider still there near the end who goes for it at 1k


----------



## Noodley (27 Sep 2013)

I'm going to go with Porte for the win.


----------



## dragon72 (27 Sep 2013)

I'd be very surprised if it's a bunch sprint. More like a fight between a select few. I fancy Sagan to win, but reckon Startacus is hitting form so I'll go with him.


----------



## Stonechat (27 Sep 2013)

I think it will be an unexpected winner


----------



## Booyaa (27 Sep 2013)

No one think Froome will do it? I would like to see Cancellara do it.


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

How the U23 race was won : innovation in descent. Expected Sagan to do this on Sunday with bunny hops thrown in for good measure.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> How the U23 race was won : innovation in descent. Expected Sagan to do this on Sunday with bunny hops thrown in for good measure.


What surprised me about Mohoric's (or Mawrick's - copyright @VamP ) aero-tuck pedalling was that he wasn't pedalling that fast. What kind of daft gear was he using?


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> What surprised me about Mohoric's (or Mawrick's - copyright @VamP ) aero-tuck pedalling was that he wasn't pedalling that fast. What kind of daft gear was he using?



58 x 11


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> 58 x 11


So if his cadence was around 100 (didn't look much faster to me) he was doing 40+ mph?


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> So if his cadence was around 100 (didn't look much faster to me) he was doing 40+ mph?




I have no idea but it's the gear of world champions


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> After all that, who'd do you reckon for Sunday ?
> Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara ?
> 
> Without a team it will be hard for Sagan - Gilbert is my tip.




Someone else. That second climb is too hard for these guys. IMO.


----------



## Stonechat (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Someone else. That second climb is too hard for these guys. IMO.


I am with you @VamP , its a real climb and people are going to be really pushing it not waiting for a sprinter to steal it


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

Are you guys talking about San Baronto? Just over 300m.


----------



## thom (27 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Someone else. That second climb is too hard for these guys. IMO.


The feedback from the U23 race was it wasn't as hard as expected.
I think those guys might all be in the game.


----------



## dragon72 (27 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Are you guys talking about San Baronto? Just over 300m.


I'm out of puff just looking at this profile


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (27 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> I'm out of puff just looking at this profile


Me too, that's why I get the pros to do it. It doesn't look anything like enough to put that many riders out of contention. Not, of course, that I know anything about it.


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> The feedback from the U23 race was it wasn't as hard as expected.
> I think those guys might all be in the game.



I think there will be a selection made before the tenth ascent without them. Like the Olympic race, I think it will contain unexpected people.

I know Spartacus is really motivated for this one, and he can do short hills like this. Just not sure about doing 10 in a row.

We'll see, that's the beauty of cycling.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (27 Sep 2013)

Sagan and Spartacus are more than capable of taking on that climb. Nibali is one to look out for too. 
Looking forward to it.


----------



## VamP (27 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Are you guys talking about San Baronto? Just over 300m.



No, the other one. The one they do 10 times.


----------



## dragon72 (27 Sep 2013)

Can anybody beat Vos? She's so strong, I can't see her letting this one go to anybody else.


----------



## laurence (27 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Can anybody beat Vos? She's so strong, I can't see her letting this one go to anybody else.



i can't see anyone, but the Germans may have a plan - but without Arndt now they are looking weak. i think it will take teamwork to beat Vos though, otherwise she will be too strong.


----------



## totallyfixed (27 Sep 2013)

dragon72 said:


> Can anybody beat Vos? She's so strong, I can't see her letting this one go to anybody else.


Well not us, done it again haven't we, got a strong contender and no one to look after her, by that I mean fielding a team of just 4 when all our rivals [again] have a full squad of 6 and please don't say "well who would you have put in". It's shameful, there are women queuing up to get a place and plenty of good ones too. Lucy Garner is amazing but might be too much to expect in this her first full year of senior racing, she is a hell of a sprinter and a real fighter, one day she will be delivered to the front and out kick anyone, and I include Vos. Her job tomorrow is to look after Lizzie for the first half of the race and leave it to the other two for the second, I'm not hopeful, I think Lizzie may have to do a lot on her own.
Why are the women racing a lesser distance than the men? Cycling still in the dark ages.


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

It reminds me of the Geelong route in Oz when Thor Hushovd won it. I haven't compared the profiles but the lump didn't look as fearsome as I had supposed and I think some unexpected guys will hang in. Sagan included.


----------



## thom (28 Sep 2013)

Here's a family friendly preview:


----------



## RecordAceFromNew (28 Sep 2013)

Live (I think) link in Italian, does anybody know of one in English before bbc is on?


----------



## phil_hg_uk (28 Sep 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Live (I think) link in Italian, does anybody know of one in English before bbc is on?



It is on here -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24038887


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Live (I think) link in Italian, does anybody know of one in English before bbc is on?


I haven't found one.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (28 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I haven't found one.



it is here -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24038887


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> it is here -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24038887


Ooh, ta! That wasn't up a short while ago.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (28 Sep 2013)

User said:


> it's live on youtube uci channel
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_1eedrEJQ




Not in the UK it isnt


----------



## phil_hg_uk (28 Sep 2013)

User said:


> sorry didn't realise,



No worries


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

User said:


> sorry didn't realise,


Yes, I think it's geo-blocked in countries where TV companies have coverage rights. Today, it's a matter of the BBC having the rights but not broadcasting it until 15:30.


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Yes, I think it's geo-blocked in countries where TV companies have coverage rights. Today, it's a matter of the BBC having the rights but not broadcasting it until 15:30.


 It's on the red button


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> It's on the red button


I can't get it. If you're using freeview, what channel?


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I can't get it. If you're using freeview, what channel?


 No, not Freeview - I didn't realise that was the case.


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

The Australian co-commentator on the Beeb has that irritating Aussie rising inflexion at the end of sentences.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (28 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> The Australian co-commentator on the Beeb has that irritating Aussie rising inflexion at the end of sentences.



rochelle gilmore


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

Hmmm, I'll resist any 'rising' gags, Phil


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

phil_hg_uk said:


> rochelle gilmore


She does like her plunging cleavages. She was had a lot more on view when the BBC was covering the Prudential ride.


----------



## raindog (28 Sep 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> She does like her plunging cleavages.


I get the plunging bit, but I've seen rugby players with more cleavage than that.

Just watched Vos win the gals event.
Do we know what the weather forecast is for tomorrow?
I reckon Cancellara can do it.


----------



## VamP (28 Sep 2013)

Rain apparently. I said this yesterday, but I still think that Gilbert, Sagan and Cancellara will not be there by lap 10 up that steep climb. The women's field was ripped apart there by the second lap. The juniors race likewise.

I could be wrong, I have been wrong before.


----------



## raindog (28 Sep 2013)

VamP said:


> Rain apparently.


bugger


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (28 Sep 2013)

Right, I'm playing catch up.

Does Marianne Vos ever have an off day? 
Rosella Ratto, at only 19, is very, very strong
Rochelle Gilmore fulfilled her plunging neckline contract with the BBC, as per. 
I'd give Cancellara the the best chance of a win.
Online BBC coverage from 9am tomorrow. Well, that's what they said. I think it's this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/24038887


----------



## rich p (28 Sep 2013)

Someone should start a CC amateur pundit prediction league on here next year. Any volunteers?


----------



## Stonechat (29 Sep 2013)

On the Beeb website
Before we tumble headlong into today's race though, there is some news about British cyclist Jonathan Tiernan-Locke, who was due to be part of Britain's eight-man team today but pulled out of the race earlier this week.

He tweeted: "Sorry I had to withdraw, don't have the form to help the lads."

It has emerged that the Team Sky cyclist has been notified of a potential discrepancy in his "biological passport data" by the sport's governing body, the UCI.​


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Stonechat said:


> On the Beeb website
> Before we tumble headlong into today's race though, there is some news about British cyclist Jonathan Tiernan-Locke, who was due to be part of Britain's eight-man team today but pulled out of the race earlier this week.
> 
> He tweeted: "Sorry I had to withdraw, don't have the form to help the lads."
> ...


 Slightly worrying but hopefully explicable.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Vos won did she, I nodded off like some old bloke just as she took off on the final hill.

I reckon its got to be someone with punch to win this. I have no idea who, this is why I don't do fantasy leagues any more, I'm crap.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Horrible weather


----------



## sleaver (29 Sep 2013)

Are the riders allowed radios or are they only used in world tour events?

EDIT - BBC coverage just answered that one


----------



## jarlrmai (29 Sep 2013)

weather sucking Cav leading the pack, good times.


----------



## dragon72 (29 Sep 2013)

sleaver said:


> Are the riders allowed radios or are they only used in world tour events?
> 
> EDIT - BBC coverage just answered that one


Well...?


----------



## jarlrmai (29 Sep 2013)

No radios allowed.


----------



## jarlrmai (29 Sep 2013)

Fab changing rain capes over no handed in the wet at speed.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Terrible weather innit
Wiggo's somewhere near the back apparently. He won't relish that horrible descent in this rain but then who, Nibali apart, would!


----------



## jifdave (29 Sep 2013)

I had a dream last night that wiggo attacked froome with cancelara on the last climb. They both worked hard and tt'd away to the line and I woke up so I don't know who won....


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Wiggins is MIA according to Boardman


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

The Italians are all on the front and pushing it hard


----------



## jifdave (29 Sep 2013)

web only place to watch? i cant find it on red button


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

jifdave said:


> web only place to watch? i cant find it on red button


 It's on the red button here but not thru Freeview apparently


----------



## jifdave (29 Sep 2013)

on sky red button bbc1 seems to just say coming up world champ cycling.... doh!

we now have lift off! yey


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

GB/Sky's tactics really baffle me. They were on the front all the way to the circuits, pulling the entire peloton along and then splinter. Why?


----------



## jifdave (29 Sep 2013)

wiggo and cav pulled out


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> GB/Sky's tactics really baffle me. They were on the front all the way to the circuits, pulling the entire peloton along and then splinter. Why?


 Dunno, keep the gap manageable I guess, Froome wouldn't even get a chance with a big gap.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Dunno, keep the gap manageable I guess, Froome wouldn't even get a chance with a big gap.


 Sure, but there are other riders and teams in the same position. Why do Sky/GB think that they have to do it all? Now, with 10 laps to go they are down to a few knackered riders.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

nasty crash, lots lying still


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

If you're not in the mix still, there is no point in carrying on in this dangerous weather


----------



## Froome with a view ! (29 Sep 2013)

Some nasty crashes,will the riders be using slick tyres in these terrible conditions or some kind of tread ?


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Froome with a view ! said:


> Some nasty crashes,will the riders be using slick tires in these terrible conditions or some kind of tread ?


 Same tyres as usual but lower pressures I believe


----------



## jifdave (29 Sep 2013)

just thinking if they are all there the columbians have some real climbing power with betancour, henao, uran and quintana


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Froome doesn't like this weather does he, back in about 54th now and it looks like a selection is being made. Gilbert up there.


----------



## ColinJ (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> It's on the red button here but not thru Freeview apparently


Not true - I am watching it on channel 301, and I only get 'Freeview Lite'.

Whoever wins this is going to be a very worthy champion!


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> If you're not in the mix still, there is no point in carrying on in this dangerous weather


There are always a lot of DNFs in Worlds road race, I'm guessing it's because there are no WorldTour points for finishing the race like in other one day races?


----------



## fossyant (29 Sep 2013)

Looks grim out there. Not nice


----------



## Tcr4x4 (29 Sep 2013)

I feel guilty watching this.. Perfect blue skies and no wind here today, and I'm sat on my backside eating chocolate watching them ride crazy distances in torrential rain!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Sep 2013)

After the snow and ice during the Giro, it hasn't been a classic year for Italian road racing weather.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

I've only just found this on the red button. 

What just happened to Froome? Why is he out.


----------



## phil_hg_uk (29 Sep 2013)

Tcr4x4 said:


> I feel guilty watching this.. Perfect blue skies and no wind here today, and I'm sat on my backside eating chocolate watching them ride crazy distances in torrential rain!



Don't worry about it I am still In bed watching it


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

What happened to Wiggins?


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> What happened to Wiggins?


Couldn't be arsed and dropped out pretty early.


----------



## fossyant (29 Sep 2013)

Bugger all GB riders left. God knows what happened to Wiggins. Froome dropped out now.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

Cav also gone!?!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

So no Brits left at all?

Porte also gone?

What's happened.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

All Irish gone!

At this rate I wish I'd given it a pop!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

All South Africans gone!

Is this a particularly brutal race or is everyone just knackered?


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Nothings happened, they just simply won't be in peak for this race, it won't have been a target and it's at the end of a long season for quite a few of them. Those not in contention will have done their job and dropped out. Plus it's lousy weather.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

So is this not the big decider for who is world champ?


Digging the retro modem sounds


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> All South Africans gone!
> 
> Is this a particularly brutal race or is everyone just knackered?


I'd say near 7 hours in relentless rain is pretty brutal. Also I made this point earlier that there are no WorldTour points for finishing so riders won't bother struggling in 40 minutes down.


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

rliu said:


> I'd say near 7 hours in relentless rain is pretty brutal. Also I made this point earlier that there are no WorldTour points for finishing so riders won't bother struggling in 40 minutes down.



Thanks!


----------



## rowdin (29 Sep 2013)

G Thomas is still in, but not in the front group.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

BBC2 just staring their live coverage - the opening features @Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome, Mark Cavendish...."
All of whom are out - how long will it take them to explain this ?


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Someone should start a CC amateur pundit prediction league on here next year. Any volunteers?



Funnily enough, I did consider something like that. I might well do it for next season.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Sagan still there, Gilbert, Cancellara, Nibali, Pozzato, Boasen Hagen plus a few others, so still a lot in contention.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Terrible weather innit
> Wiggo's somewhere near the back apparently. He won't relish that horrible descent in this rain but then who, Nibali apart, would!



This weather, that descent near the finish... it's made for Nibali, isn't it?


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Crackle said:


> Sagan still there, Gilbert, Cancellara, Nibali, Pozzato, Boasen Hagen plus a few others, so still a lot in contention.



Ooh, EBH! Could be a good outside bet.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Ooh, EBH! Could be a good outside bet.


 I was thinking that. about time he left his bridesmaids role behind.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

all GB riders out now


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> all GB riders out now



Commentators are saying they think G is still in. 

Sounds like Sagan might be out though!


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Sep 2013)

Just tuned in. WTF is going on!!! Is Nibali at least still in there? I expected Wiggins to ditch and Cav but Froome? Form must be lower than expected i assume. 

I still reckon his Nibs will take this, if he is still in the mix.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Uran is still in the lead group. He could be in with a chance if he's still there at the finish.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Just tuned in. WTF is going on!!! Is Nibali at least still in there?



Nibs is right up at the front end of the race. 

G is now confirmed as retired.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Commentators are saying they think G is still in.


They ought to be paying closer attention to twitter ;-)


----------



## RedRider (29 Sep 2013)

Following the race via this thread (I'm at work, shhhh..). Am i right in thinking Nibali's from Tuscany? An extra incentive to win on home roads?


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

I thought sagan was still there, changed bikes so no transponder but no79 I think.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Sagan still there, in the first third on the right


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Piss poor GB effort when all's said and done


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> **** poor GB effort when all's said and done


absolutely - pathetic

Berto's still there - outside bet?


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> absolutely - pathetic
> 
> Berto's still there - outside bet?


 There's a few I could waste my money on !


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Bauka Mollema won a similar sort of finish in Montreal recently


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> **** poor GB effort when all's said and done


There was no one in the GB squad with a realistic chance, this course suits a punchy type rider who can climb and also sprint well like Boasson Hagen, Sagan, Cancellara or Gilbert. Froome has no explosive finish, Cav would never have got over the climbs 10 times well, and would there be enough faith in the form of the likes of Wiggins or Thomas for the team to support them?


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

rliu said:


> There was no one in the GB squad with a realistic chance


that doesn't mean they all have to pack up. If every nation did that, there'd only be two or three riders left in the race at the finish.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

rliu said:


> There was no one in the GB squad with a realistic chance, this course suits a punchy type rider who can climb and also sprint well like Boasson Hagen, Sagan, Cancellara or Gilbert. Froome has no explosive finish, Cav would never have got over the climbs 10 times well, and would there be enough faith in the form of the likes of Wiggins or Thomas for the team to support them?


 There's no reason, apart from a lack of commitment, why some of the GB riders couldn't at least do the equal of the riders left in this. The policy of riding on the front, in the rain and wind for 100m before they got to Florence is more than questionable IMHO


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Froome blames the rain and lack of team-mates. Well............


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> that doesn't mean they all have to pack up. If every nation did that, there'd only be two or three riders left in the race at the finish.


Every national squad has different objectives, some of them will take getting riders onto the finish list as good practice for the future and a good result in itself. For GB which has a glittering record and also so many riders who have had long seasons where they gave their all for other objectives, I'm not too surprised that none of the riders felt the need to go on for another 2 tough hours just so they can squeeze into the top 30.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Froome blames the rain and lack of team-mates. Well............


Aye - EBH hasn't got such liberties - he still there innit !? Sagan also - he hardly has a team.

GB just haven't come to terms with one day racing yet.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

Thomas stayed on his bike though!


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Aye - EBH hasn't got such liberties - he still there innit !? Sagan also - he hardly has a team.
> 
> GB just haven't come to terms with one day racing yet.


 Aye, very reminiscent of Sky's Classics campaign


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Sep 2013)

RedRider said:


> Following the race via this thread (I'm at work, shhhh..). Am i right in thinking Nibali's from Tuscany? An extra incentive to win on home roads?


Nibbles is from Sicily.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Visconti is looking fearsomely strong.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> There's no reason, apart from a lack of commitment, why some of the GB riders couldn't at least do the equal of the riders left in this. The policy of riding on the front, in the rain and wind for 100m before they got to Florence is more than questionable IMHO


Aye, Thomas was blaming the rain etc, but lets be honest, every man out there is riding in the same conditions, so not really an excuse.


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

Christ, this is one tough Worlds.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Aye, Thomas was blaming the rain etc, but lets be honest, every man out there is riding in the same conditions, so not really an excuse.


 I may be wrong but I kinda got the impression that GT wasn't overly impressed with Froome and Wiggins


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Aye, Thomas was blaming the rain etc, but lets be honest, every man out there is riding in the same conditions, so not really an excuse.



Exactly what Frome said


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

Nibs down! - bugger


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Aye, very reminiscent of Sky's Classics campaign


seems like any long race without race radios does not suit the GB team at all


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

So, Sagan, Gilbert, Cancellara still there - the pre race favourites


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> So, Sagan, Gilbert, Cancellara still there - the pre race favourites


Gotta be hugely impressed with Spartacus, holding in on a day like this for near 7 hours after a bronze in the ITT only 4 days ago.


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

Whoever wins this will be a deserving world champ - don't care who it is.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> Nibs down! - bugger



Nibs up again! Blimey!

The Colombians are looking strong. Uran is defo in with a shout. 

Simon Clarke has to be considered a real contender now too.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Do you fancy Styby's chances, @VamP?


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Nibs up again! Blimey!


....and even back up front - that's one hard rider


----------



## totallyfixed (29 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> ....and even back up front - that's one hard rider


And he did it all without any help .


----------



## Andrew_Culture (29 Sep 2013)

Gah, I've had to go next door for lunch!


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> And he did it all without any help .


missed that - did he hook on to a car?


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

raindog said:


> missed that - did he hook on to a car?


 Shortcut through a housing estate


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Shortcut through a housing estate


LOL - no joke?


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

no, a joke!


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

oooooh - you barsteward!


----------



## totallyfixed (29 Sep 2013)

Paced back by team car then magic spanner while car accelerated and slingshot him back into peleton.


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Paced back by team car then magic spanner while car accelerated and slingshot him back into peleton.


fair enough. They all do it.
Anyroad, he's Italian


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Nibali - surely he'll get a gap on the descent now


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

5 away


----------



## Stonechat (29 Sep 2013)

Go Purito


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Ouch


----------



## tug benson (29 Sep 2013)

Uran crashes


----------



## Stonechat (29 Sep 2013)

HE'S OK THOUGH


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

JRod descended faster than Nibs!!!


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

J-Rod has got away !


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

If Rui Costa doesn't help he screws his own chances


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

I've seen ValvPiti win a sprint


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Great team tactics executed by J-Rod here - he has 5 secs now


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Rui Costa = World Champion 2013


----------



## Stonechat (29 Sep 2013)

rruuuyy cossstaaa


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Stellar year for Rui Costa


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Gutted for Purito. Great finish.


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

Classic example of a dark horse profiting from the battle between the frontrunner countries of Spain and Italy. Chapeau Rui Costa, winning from that outsider position. Absolutely brutal day that rivalled Milan-San Remo earlier this year (tougher conditions there but at least the riders got a 45 minute rest then when the race got neutralised in the snow and 50km got taken out of the course)


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Gutted for Purito.


+1


----------



## ayceejay (29 Sep 2013)

Over here people think that it rains all the time in Britain and consequently should be favourites in any event when it rains, clearly this is not the case as this was the first 'team' to quit. I am reminded of the England football team who individually play well for their club but are not committed when playing for their country. Is patriotism, or whatever you might call it a thing of the past in the UK I mean Nibali rode in the same conditions, crashed and still put in an effort that deserves praise, compare this with Wiggins who apparently didn't want to get his bike wet.


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

ayceejay said:


> Is patriotism, or whatever you might call it a thing of the past in the UK


eh? Cav was world champ the season before last. What are you on about?


----------



## ayceejay (29 Sep 2013)

Does that answer my question?


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

They carried on coverage of the medal ceremony on the BBC Cycling website. Purito seemed to be tearful throughout and Rui Costa seemed too drained to even look that cheerful as he was being presented with the rainbow jersey, before breaking down in tears himself towards the end of the Portuguese anthem. Today was certainly a race that typified why cycling lives on in the hearts of many despite all the doping scandals.


----------



## Crackle (29 Sep 2013)

I missed the end due to the recorder buggering up. I saw until just after the Uran crash and then it stopped and I was catapulted into Sara millican, total fekkin disaster.

Costa eh, good for him, excellent result.


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

User said:


> Rodríguez at 34, not surprised he was upset, might have been his last chance..


No doubt being the nearly man must be starting to really hurt after losing Giro 2012 on the last day and the points and combined jersey in Vuelta 2012 on the last day.


----------



## gavroche (29 Sep 2013)

A very big thumb down for the GB team. What a bunch of sissies! It rained just the same for the other riders, but they carried on regardless. Froome,Wiggins, Cavendish, Thomas etc...you have gone well down in my appreciation and will not cheer for you again. Give me continental riders anytime, at least, they man up and do their job.


----------



## gavintc (29 Sep 2013)

I agree, and was expecting more. Perhaps the lack of radios also worked against them as they have so dependant on the things.


----------



## raindog (29 Sep 2013)

gavroche said:


> Froome,Wiggins, Cavendish, Thomas etc...you have gone well down in my appreciation and will not cheer for you again.


Not Cav. He did his job up front in the rain for ages, and he finished in the top ten of this year's M-SR in the snow and ice - he's a hard bugger is Cav, and a great racer. 
The others though........


----------



## VamP (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Do you fancy Styby's chances, @VamP?


 
Just got back from cross. I see the climbers had their day, I thought they would. Styby didn't think any of the puncheurs would be there at the finishing line, and he was right. I think he'll be reasonably satisfied with his performance.

Saw bits of the race on the telly at Hogg Hill caff, looked really tough.

Rui Costa has had a great season all in all, hasn't he?


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Geraint Thomas seemed not to have faith in himself. He seemed to think it was pointless to carry on when his team leader abandoned, rather than carry on riding for himself. Strange.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Geraint Thomas seemed not to have faith in himself. He seemed to think it was pointless to carry on when his team leader abandoned, rather than carry on riding for himself. Strange.


The pre-race plan was for Cav & Rowe to do work early, Thomas & Stannard to do stuff mid-race and Froome, Wiggins, Kennaugh & Cummings to be around later on.
Geraint Thomas seems to say he did not yet have any form after the TdF having spent time off the bike recovering form his break, so I'd cut him some slack but it seems to me that team GB might have altered their tactics when they realised it would rain so much to give Stannard some license to be around later on given how he did at MSR this year.

I just hope the management learn from this.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Geraint Thomas seems to say he did not yet have any form after the TdF



I suppose he does have the broken pelvis as an excuse...

It's just that I've always had big hopes for the lad but I'm starting to fear they were misplaced.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> I suppose he does have the broken pelvis as an excuse...
> 
> It's just that I've always had big hopes for the lad but I'm starting to fear they were misplaced.


I just hope Sky step up in how they approach the Classics next year. Stannard was rumored to move to OPQS and you can completely see why - they know how to manage those races and put people in the right place to win. If Thomas does have the personal ambition in that area, maybe he's be advised to consider a similar move when his contract expires.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

User said:


> Rodriguez: "I did not understand what happened behind me. You will have to ask Valverde.”
> 
> http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/rodriguez_this_is_the_bitter_fate_of_purito/


 Valverde should have attacked Nibali, as Boardman suggested, when the 3 caught JRod but he sat back and did feck all. Doping twat (possibly ex)


----------



## threebikesmcginty (29 Sep 2013)

User said:


> Rodríguez at 34, not surprised he was upset, might have been his last chance..



Surely this years Vuelta has taught us all that age is no barrier to a big win.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (29 Sep 2013)

Spanish tactics at the end were shocking. Rendered Valverde useless and gambled on Purito staying away. One of therm could have attacked with a few K to go and the other sat on the tail of any chasers, giving them a sprinters chance. As it was Valverde was in no mans land and Purito was left crossing his fingers that he didn't get caught. 
Nibali was marked out of it and he decided, rightly so, that he wasn't going to drag the others up to Purito only to come 4th - his end placing anyway. 

My only slight criticism of the race itself is that it is too long. Why the need for 10 laps? The amount of DNF's surely point to just how hard it is even for the toughest and fittest professional. It also means 9 laps of bugger all happening and whoever is left in the end battling it out with whatever they have left. Just my opinion though. 

As for GB, well i think others above have said it best. I'd be surprised if any of them are feeling good about that performance.


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Surely this years Vuelta has taught us all that age is no barrier to a big win.


 It did fleetingly cross my mind that if JRod can do this well, Horner should be out of sight


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Valverde should have attacked Nibali, as Boardman suggested, when the 3 caught JRod but he sat back and did feck all. Doping twat (possibly ex)


Yes I was just thinking back to that (on my slow hangover penance run just now...).
Why didn't Valverde attack when it got brought back ? Was he so knackered or just personally determined to prevent Nibali winning ?
When Nibali brought J-Rod back and there were 4 left, JRod went to the back and Valverde sat 2nd wheel behind Nibali. Valverde might have gone then but didn't move, so JRod went to the front again with Valverde behind. Valverde did deliberately enable JRod to open a considerable gap on the final steep ramp but... he didn't cover Rui Costa's move, preferring to play a limpet on Nibali. He must have thought Nibali would go after Costa. He judged wrong and for a second time, he failed to use his final efforts in an attempt to win. 

Costa ultimately was good enough to profit from that stand-off, from the Spanish pair (in particular Valverde) appearing not to implement the optimal collaborative strategy, misreading the situation and Valverde seeming to be primarily intent in preventing Nibali in particular from winning. I'm glad the race was won by a rider who used his wits to beat the odds of the situation.


----------



## Noodley (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> I just hope Sky step up in how they approach the Classics next year.


 
Sky (and GB) do not have a DS who can call a one-day race.


----------



## Dusty Bin (29 Sep 2013)

Noodley said:


> Sky (and GB) do not have a DS who can call a one-day race.



GB had a 7th in the junior race - who was DS on that?


----------



## Noodley (29 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> GB had a 7th in the junior race - who was DS on that?


 

A DS who can't call a win.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Noodley said:


> Sky (and GB) do not have a DS who can call a one-day race.


Yes - but they could improve. Or bring back Sean Yates...


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

Team GB lack a plan B, and plan A is not great. It's clear we don't have the depth of talent that other countries have, but tactically we could learn from the smaller nations.


----------



## tigger (29 Sep 2013)

Gutted for Purito. Shocked and disappointed by the British team. It's no secret that Froome and Wiggins don't like the wet and there was nothing in this race for Cav. But did the entire team need to pull out? Given the conditions they should have backed Stannard from the off, let the 3 big names do the early work so they could drop out. It's a joke and an insult to the competition that they all pulled out. Should be ashamed of themselves. 

Sad end to the season, but chapeau Rui Costa, read the race very well indeed.


----------



## Noodley (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Yes - but they could improve. Or bring back Sean Yates...


 

Yates could call a race better than they have now.
There must be some clean ex-riders able to DS for Sky, surely...

Surely?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (29 Sep 2013)

Noodley said:


> Yates could call a race better than they have now.
> There must be some clean ex-riders able to DS for Sky, surely...
> 
> Surely?


I never had you down as an optimist!

Anyhow, thanks Purito for bringing a bit of sunshine into the race!


----------



## Strathlubnaig (29 Sep 2013)

Good on Uran for getting on his back after that _chute incroyable_ and finishing the race, chapeau. Brits take note. Also, Nibali had a crash and got up and kept on, nice one.


----------



## Dusty Bin (29 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> Team GB lack a plan B, and plan A is not great. It's clear we don't have the depth of talent that other countries have, but tactically we could learn from the smaller nations.



It's a one-day race and the GB senior squad are all stage racers. And the only rider with any 'previous' in one-dayers is not a climber anyway.


----------



## smutchin (29 Sep 2013)

Out of interest, did anyone seriously believe Froome was a contender even before it started raining today?


----------



## rliu (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Out of interest, did anyone seriously believe Froome was a contender even before it started raining today?


I always took it with a pinch of salt whenever any GB rider talked about going for the Worlds. This seems to be the downside of greater media coverage of cycling, that riders and coaches seem to feel obliged to aim for every big race going, and I dare say linked to how people reacted with disappointment to Cav's finishing outside the top 20 in the Olympics road race.


----------



## Archie (29 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Out of interest, did anyone seriously believe Froome was a contender even before it started raining today?


No, not really. Which made it inexplicable why Cavendish and Rowe were on the front of the peloton for the early part of the race. Can't see why it was GBs place to dictate the tempo. 

Ironic that the commentary justification was it would keep the team out of crashes.


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Rod Ellingworth has been talking to the press - he was not impressed. Articles in the broadsheets - here is an excerpt from the Daily Telegraph:

Asked if the team’s capitulation had been down to a lack of spirit, Ellingworth said: “Yes. I think it may be that simple. A lot of people were talking the talk beforehand and didn’t see it through. No excuses. Each and every one of them underperformed.”

Wiggins kept his own counsel but Geraint Thomas, the last of the team to abandon with five laps of the 16.6km Fiesole circuit left, said: “Maybe the whole Giro thing is still playing on Brad’s mind a bit. When it comes to fighting for position around corners and stuff, he just puts the brakes on too much and loses position. Once that’s happened, it’s hard to come back.”


----------



## thom (29 Sep 2013)

Archie said:


> No, not really. Which made it inexplicable why Cavendish and Rowe were on the front of the peloton for the early part of the race. Can't see why it was GBs place to dictate the tempo.


Thing is, once Cav was picked in the team, there wasn't much else he could have done and looked like he was contributing given the parcours. Maybe the GB team didn't have the guts not to pick him...


----------



## rich p (29 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Rod Ellingworth has been talking to the press - he was not impressed. Articles in the broadsheets - here is an excerpt from the Daily Telegraph:
> 
> Asked if the team’s capitulation had been down to a lack of spirit, Ellingworth said: “Yes. I think it may be that simple. A lot of people were talking the talk beforehand and didn’t see it through. No excuses. Each and every one of them underperformed.”
> 
> Wiggins kept his own counsel but Geraint Thomas, the last of the team to abandon with five laps of the 16.6km Fiesole circuit left, said: “Maybe the whole Giro thing is still playing on Brad’s mind a bit. When it comes to fighting for position around corners and stuff, he just puts the brakes on too much and loses position. Once that’s happened, it’s hard to come back.”


 He must have been reading some of our comments on here Thom!


----------



## lukesdad (30 Sep 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> It's a one-day race and the GB senior squad are all stage racers. And the only rider with any 'previous' in one-dayers is not a climber anyway.


 Well take a leaf from the womens TT and don't feckin enter any of 'em.


----------



## Pedrosanchezo (30 Sep 2013)

Get the feeling that they weren't united as a team. One must now seriously wonder is Froome and Wiggins can ride together effectively. Seems to be the case that they won't go that extra mile for each other. The result would likely feel like a leaderless team and in that respect it is no wonder they started dropping like flies. 

All for one and one for all!!!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (30 Sep 2013)

I am surprised no-one predicted Rui Costa... again. He's been doing this all season, and he still seems to be able to fly under the radar. You think people (yes, including all of us) would have twigged by now. And Purito has been coming second all season too!

Agree that the British performance and direction was a disgrace. In those conditions, and for that length of race, they absolutely should have gone out to support a hard man like Stannard or, if he was in better form, Thomas, and supported them with dedicated, fit and hungry riders. Cav did his job as did Rowe. It wasn't worth even selecting Wiggins - we knew that already - and Froome is not really a useful support rider in this kind of race.


----------



## Noodley (30 Sep 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I am surprised no-one predicted Rui Costa... again. He's been doing this all season, and he still seems to be able to fly under the radar. You think people (yes, including all of us) would have twigged by now. And Purito has been coming second all season too!


 
You could say that about a few riders tho; I suppose it's good to have open races where the winner can fly under the prediction radar as it means that we don't have a predictable procession.


----------



## dellzeqq (30 Sep 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Get the feeling that they weren't united as a team. One must now seriously wonder is Froome and Wiggins can ride together effectively. Seems to be the case that they won't go that extra mile for each other. The result would likely feel like a leaderless team and in that respect it is no wonder they started dropping like flies.
> 
> All for one and one for all!!!


you've got to unite around something - a plan. 

Would Froome have stood a chance in the dry?


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## rich p (30 Sep 2013)

I read elsewhere that Rui Costa wanted to win to avoid having to wear the Lampre kit next year.
It was a pity Uran crashed out when he did; the dynamic of the chase in the last few kms would have been significantly different.


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## Noodley (30 Sep 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> you've got to unite around something - a plan.


 
A decent DS will have a plan, then another, then another...looking at the GB team there were loads of options available re tactics which a decent DS would be able to respond to during a race, and get the team working together towards the changes on the road.


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## Booyaa (30 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Out of interest, did anyone seriously believe Froome was a contender even before it started raining today?


I asked this the other day as up until that point there had been no mention of him.


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## rich p (30 Sep 2013)

I don't think many on here gave Froome much of a chance but he was talking himself up in the media.


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## Bollo (30 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> Thing is, once Cav was picked in the team, there wasn't much else he could have done and looked like he was contributing given the parcours. Maybe the GB team didn't have the guts not to pick him...


I read somewhere on the internet, where truth reigns, that Cav was picked as much for his ability to extract some sort of team ethos as for what he could contribute to the race. He's probably about the only rider with the standing and cajones to shake Sir Brad out of his usual diffidence.


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## smutchin (30 Sep 2013)

So, really, rather than underachieving, the British team performed much as we'd expected all along?

And to be fair, plenty of other strong-on-paper teams were notable by their absence at the death. OK, so Alex Howes and Peter Stetina actually finished the race with the main group, but Talansky and Tejay and the rest of the USA team DNF. And Simon Clarke was the only Australian finisher...

And as the home team, Italy were ultimately a bit disappointing - no one remembers who came 4th...


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## Crackle (30 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> So, really, rather than underachieving, the British team performed much as we'd expected all along?
> 
> And to be fair, plenty of other strong-on-paper teams were notable by their absence at the death. OK, so Alex Howes and Peter Stetina actually finished the race with the main group, but Talansky and Tejay and the rest of the USA team DNF. And Simon Clarke was the only Australian finisher...
> 
> And as the home team, Italy were ultimately a bit disappointing - no one remembers who came 4th...



I was going to mention the USA, you beat me to it.

And in answer to you and Dellzeqq, I never thought Froome had a chance and I think we can safely revoke Wiggins passport to Italy.


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## smutchin (30 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> I read elsewhere that Rui Costa wanted to win to avoid having to wear the Lampre kit next year.
> It was a pity Uran crashed out when he did; the dynamic of the chase in the last few kms would have been significantly different.



Until he went down, I really thought Uran was looking like he might nick it. He's usually a very good descender.


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## Crackle (30 Sep 2013)

rich p said:


> It was a pity Uran crashed out when he did; the dynamic of the chase in the last few kms would have been significantly different.



It was but it was also one of the most spectacular crashes I've seen and chapeau he picked himself up after that and cracked on, jeez, tough bugger!


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## Flying_Monkey (30 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Until he went down, I really thought Uran was looking like he might nick it. He's usually a very good descender.



Yeah, he and Henao were looking good in this one. Until the crash, I thought he had a chance.


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## uphillstruggler (30 Sep 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I am surprised no-one predicted Rui Costa... again. He's been doing this all season, and he still seems to be able to fly under the radar. You think people (yes, including all of us) would have twigged by now. And Purito has been coming second all season too!
> 
> Agree that the British performance and direction was a disgrace. In those conditions, and for that length of race, they absolutely should have gone out to support a hard man like Stannard or, if he was in better form, Thomas, and supported them with dedicated, fit and hungry riders. Cav did his job as did Rowe. It wasn't worth even selecting Wiggins - we knew that already - and Froome is not really a useful support rider in this kind of race.


 
I too am disappointed that he team didn't get behind Stannard - you would think that with all the work that bloke does for everyone else, they would have supported him, Maybe Thomas also as another option.

I'm hoping Stannard gets a result in the classics that his type of rider deserves.


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## Flying_Monkey (30 Sep 2013)

uphillstruggler said:


> I'm hoping Stannard gets a result in the classics that his type of rider deserves.



I agree, but Sky will have to change their focus and tactics quite a lot for that to happen.


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## The Couch (30 Sep 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> My only slight criticism of the race itself is that it is too long. Why the need for 10 laps? The amount of DNF's surely point to just how hard it is even for the toughest and fittest professional. It also means 9 laps of bugger all happening and whoever is left in the end battling it out with whatever they have left. Just my opinion though.


The way I see it, the biggest amount of the DNFs came because of the weather (once the rain stopped and roads dried up, the riders didn't drop out out at the same pace anylonger)... then again I do agree with your point, because of the fact that because of the gigantic distance the riders were too afraid to attack from too far away (perhaps, since riders are turning more "human" lately?). Once Italy stopped pulling the front, it got boring until the last round.



Flying_Monkey said:


> I am surprised no-one predicted Rui Costa...


I did mention him 


The Couch said:


> ... Anybody thinks "outsiders" like Froome, *Costa*, Voeckler, D. Martin, Gerrans,... (anyone else?) would have a good chance?


but I had believed the "experts" that were saying that this would rather be a race for punchers that can climb, rather than climbers with a good punch

Some personal remarks:

Uran was again looking very strong... this year he has looked much better (across a longer period) than Henao, so Sky might start getting regrets in the next years
Anybody else was thinking Betancur was looking good all day long, until he found himself a parking spot in the last roud on the Fiesole? 
After his unfortunate fall, Nibali made 1 minute up on the (chasing) peloton in about 2 km span... no matter, how interesting he made the race later on...that's a disgrace if I ever saw one
Considering, it was a race that apparently suited the climbers best, how did Grivko end in 5th place?
Feel gutted for Purito, but then again... he got himself "seduced" to attack from too far out, as a climber he is just not suited to hold on to a lead for a very long time, if he might have waited to go on the Via Salviati (or right after the top), he probably had taken it
I really think Valverde was too knackered to jump back on the wheel of Costa, since Costa attacked right before some turns and Valverde had realized too late Nibali couldn't do it (I believe this was shown in the sprint against Nibali, that he should have dominated much more against a knackered Nibali)
Costa is a great winner (and might have thought back at the team decision to go and help Valverde get back to the peloton in the TdF, when he was on the podium yesterday )


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## totallyfixed (30 Sep 2013)

Certainly on the face of it, and looking back at the men's Olympic Road Race you would be forgiven for thinking that the GB team have a plan A but no plan B. That plan A would appear to be ride at the front, control the peleton, in the ridiculous hope of putting main contenders under pressure without considering that actually all they are doing is wearing themselves out and allowing everyone else to sit in. I'm sure this must be an over simplification, but to me it borders on arrogance and lacking of respect for riders with maybe more talent than themselves.
I also agree with Pedrosanchezo, in that you didn't get the feeling of one for all and all for one within the team, putting Froome and Wiggo in the same squad I don't think is ever going to work 
I doubt we have heard the last of this.


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## thom (30 Sep 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Certainly on the face of it, and looking back at the men's Olympic Road Race you would be forgiven for thinking that the GB team have a plan A but no plan B. That plan A would appear to be ride at the front, control the peleton, in the ridiculous hope of putting main contenders under pressure without considering that actually all they are doing is wearing themselves out and allowing everyone else to sit in. I'm sure this must be an over simplification, but to me it borders on arrogance and lacking of respect for riders with maybe more talent than themselves.
> I also agree with Pedrosanchezo, in that you didn't get the feeling of one for all and all for one within the team, putting Froome and Wiggo in the same squad I don't think is ever going to work
> I doubt we have heard the last of this.


I think it's a bit mean spirited to make that comparison to the olympic road race personally - with Cav as World Champ and the route set up to give him a chance of being in it at the end, fully committing to racing for him while still an outside strategy at least gave GB _a_ chance and a good one at that.
Likely there could have been a backup as well but I think there was logic to the approach. And we maybe saw something of the value of David Millar as team captain too. 
With this offering, there was no outstanding contender in the GB ranks, so I do agree there was a lack of pragmatism/realism that appears arrogant.

Regarding Wiggins, the criticism is definitely a black mark against him that he won't like. I think he will want to show he can ride for Froome in the future. Froome himself can't complain given he dropped out so far out though. He clearly doesn't have the mentality to hang in through the tough times as is kind of needed to be World Champ of the cycling world, which is ok you know if you are a TdF winner. 
It just seems they both should be riding for others in one day races, as they did do so effectively for Cav 2 years ago....


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## smutchin (30 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> And we maybe saw something of the value of David Millar as team captain too.



Of course! I was trying to think who they might have picked who would have improved the team's chances and there's the answer right there. Millar would have thrived in those conditions yesterday.

Why was Pete Kennaugh not in the team either? He's a thoroughbred Trojan.


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## thom (30 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> Of course! I was trying to think who they might have picked who would have improved the team's chances and there's the answer right there. Millar would have thrived in those conditions yesterday.
> 
> Why was Pete Kennaugh not in the team either? He's a thoroughbred Trojan.


Aye, they seem to have replaced him with Josh Edmondson instead - the Guardian article I think had Kennaugh down as someone for later in the race so something must have happened to prevent him taking a place. I wonder whether Adam Blythe was ever in contention for the team. Cummings ought to have been hard enough as well - he was just unlucky to puncture.


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## smutchin (30 Sep 2013)

Based on form, you have to question the inclusion of Rowe and Edmondson, and not forgetting that Rowe came into the squad to replace JTL, which was a baffling selection even before the issues around his blood passport came out. 

Having said that, Kennaugh has only entered two races since the TdF and finished neither, so I suspect there's something wrong with him. Which answers that question at least.

The more I think about it, the more confused I am about Millar being left out - he was in Tuscany with Garmin for the team time trial so it's not as if he was unavailable or injured.


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## thom (30 Sep 2013)

I think Millar had decided the Olympics would be his last hurrah for GB, which is one reason why he didn't ride the worlds last year.
GB just don't target the worlds like Sky target the Tour yet. Given the successes I'm not going to complain on that one - hopefully there is something gained in the experience for the young riders of the future - GB ought to be good enough to learn whatever needs to be learned.


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## ayceejay (30 Sep 2013)

This race panned out exactly the same as the recent GP de Quebec in Montreal with similar results Sky/GB tactics don't seem to work in one day events ans superior tacticians (Sagan in Montreal) win the day. Froome rode the same race in both cases proving that he is not suited to one day events. Wiggins resembles a petulant teenager who should return his knighthood. Personally I am glad that such miserable tactics have been found out as it is the likes of the four leaders in the Worlds that make the game exciting rather than the Sky yawn fest where nobody takes a risk.


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## Bollo (30 Sep 2013)

thom said:


> .....
> 
> Regarding Wiggins, the criticism is definitely a black mark against him that he won't like. I think he will want to show he can ride for Froome in the future.


Can't see it myself, and I thought Wiggins was already muttering about henching up for a return to the track.


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## rich p (30 Sep 2013)

FWIW, I think he was probably willing to do a few pulls on the front for Froome but it was the descents in the weather that spooked him again. He was maybe thinking that busting a collar bone, pelvis etc wasn't worth the risk for in a futile cause.


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## thom (30 Sep 2013)

Bollo said:


> Can't see it myself, and I thought Wiggins was already muttering about henching up for a return to the track.


I think the track is scheduled for when his Sky contract runs out, which is the year after next. I would not be surprised to see Sky prepare him as an assistant to Froome for the TdF next year.


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## thom (30 Sep 2013)

William Fotheringham - he makes a good few points here about the GB effort, only one or two that we have mentioned.


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## sleaver (30 Sep 2013)

Rain, what rain?


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOl2OPjewOE


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Sep 2013)

It has been pointed out before, mainly Sky but also GB, that once plan A has gone wayward then there is no leader on the road who can make big decisions and do what is needed through instinct. Nibali said, publicly, recently that he thought team Sky need a DS to call the shots from the team car. That they are incapable of making decisions in a split second. I would say this is somewhat harsh to tar Sky and GB with this brush but there is a point to be made here. A good example would be when Froome lost a minute to Contador for not reacting quickly enough to a situation in real time. Within a few seconds he could be seen reaching for his radio. Cav on the other hand reads a race amazingly well and in this same instance he reacted and went on to win the race!

What team GB showed on Sunday was how not to ride on instinct. Once the plan flopped so did any chances GB may have had.


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## thom (4 Oct 2013)

A write up from Geraint Thomas - an excerpt:

"Early on I had to tell Cav to slow down every now and again because he was getting super-excited and wanted to chase the riders who had gone off in a break.

And I did speak to Sir Bradley Wiggins after the descent down San Baronto (after 58km of the 272km race) because he went from the front to pretty much the back of the bunch.

Mentally he has got a bit of an issue about riding in the rain aftercrashing in this year's Giro d'Italia.

So I told him that, if he wanted to, he could do his work early on. Riding on the front of a race is easier than trying to fight in the wheels of a big bunch of riders when you have to deal with wet roads and tight corners.

He was about to do that, but then we hit some corners and nobody saw him again. I am still not sure what happened to him, because I did not see him afterwards."


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## raindog (5 Oct 2013)

thom said:


> A write up from Geraint Thomas - an excerpt:
> "Early on I had to tell Cav to slow down every now and again because he was getting super-excited and wanted to chase the riders who had gone off in a break.


love that bit


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