# A smart meter question.



## Dave7 (18 Feb 2021)

Due to an extension built some 30+ years ago our gas meter is in the side garden. It's also low down on the wall.
That was fine until I became an old fart. Now its hard work.
So.........as the meter is outside....... 
A) can the smart meter be fitted inside ?
B) does it matter, as theoretically I won't need to look at it ?


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2021)

You should be able to get a smart meter if you really want one, but do you really want one, especially if it is not the new generation? In addition, how often do you look at your meter? I only look at it when I change supplier, so at most once a year when my fixed contract expires.


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## Once a Wheeler (18 Feb 2021)

My advice is to site the meter outside whenever possible. The utility companies will usually re-position it if you ask for it and pay the fee. Outside meters avoid all the hassle of having to be in when the meter is read and even smart meters do need checking from time to time: at least annually I would guess. You can paint the cabinet any colour you like, so camouflage skills are definitely in order.


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## MontyVeda (18 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> You should be able to get a smart meter if you really want one, but do you really want one, especially if it is not the new generation? In addition, *how often do you look at your meter?* I only look at it when I change supplier, so at most once a year when my fixed contract expires.


I check my meters every time they send me a bill... so four times a year. Their estimations can often be grossly out and I'd rather pay the actual amount of Gas and Electricity used.

As for your smart meter (@Dave7), regardless of where it's cited, the little wi-fi console can be put anywhere in the house you want it.


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## Drago (18 Feb 2021)

Mine is outside, and I fitted a padlock to stop the sneaky f****s fitting a s mart meter while I wasn't at home.


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## Dave7 (18 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> You should be able to get a smart meter if you really want one, but do you really want one, especially if it is not the new generation? In addition, how often do you look at your meter? I only look at it when I change supplier, so at most once a year when my fixed contract expires.


I get regular requests......maybe 3 or 4 a year.
Its getting harder to kneel down and read it.......got another request today.
New generation for sure.


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## Dave7 (18 Feb 2021)

Once a Wheeler said:


> My advice is to site the meter outside whenever possible. The utility companies will usually re-position it if you ask for it and pay the fee. Outside meters avoid all the hassle of having to be in when the meter is read and even smart meters do need checking from time to time: at least annually I would guess. You can paint the cabinet any colour you like, so camouflage skills are definitely in order.


Side garden is locked so I would still nee to be in.


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## Dave7 (18 Feb 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I check my meters every time they send me a bill... so four times a year. Their estimations can often be grossly out and I'd rather pay the actual amount of Gas and Electricity used.
> 
> As for your smart meter (@Dave7), regardless of where it's cited, the little wi-fi console can be put anywhere in the house you want it.


That's what I was hoping to read


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2021)

I ignore requests to read the meter - it does no real harm, if they tell me they want to put up the direct debit within the contract I say no.


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## welsh dragon (18 Feb 2021)

Bulb keep sending me emails telling me they are ready to install a smart meter. Thanks but no thanks. 

Every 3 months they send me an email asking me to send them the latest meter reading. This makes sure that I am up to date with reading and that i have full control of what I pay each month. It's a win win situation for me.


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## winjim (18 Feb 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I check my meters every time they send me a bill... so four times a year. Their estimations can often be grossly out and I'd rather pay the actual amount of Gas and Electricity used.
> 
> As for your smart meter (@Dave7), regardless of where it's cited, the little wi-fi console can be put anywhere in the house you want it.


You don't even need the little console.


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## MontyVeda (18 Feb 2021)

Dave7 said:


> That's what I was hoping to read


I'm unsure as to whether the console shows the meter reading though... somebody who actually has a smart meter will be able to tell you that

my mother's shows daily usage, but I've not fiddled with it that much to find out what else it displays. It seems a bit shoddy... press a button and not much happens, then five seconds after I've stopped pressing, something happens and it's not what was expected, then I can't work out how to get it back to its normal 'daily' display.


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## MontyVeda (18 Feb 2021)

winjim said:


> You don't even need the little console.


my brother effectively makes the consoles... his advice... ignore it!


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## Dave7 (18 Feb 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> my brother effectively makes the consoles... his advice... ignore it!


???
Ignore smart metres ???


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## MontyVeda (18 Feb 2021)

Dave7 said:


> ???
> Ignore smart metres ???


ignore the console and it's daily, weekly, monthly usage 'data'... it's little more than a gimmick. Running around the house turning off the landing light won't make a notable difference to your quarterly bill.


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2021)

If you do go for a smart meter you don't need to send readings at all. The console just uses your electricity to tell you how much electricity you are using. The smart meter will send the reading itself, hourly or daily depending on how it is setup, no input from you at all. Of course, this means they can mess around with your tariff and start to charge you more during peak times if they want to.


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## winjim (18 Feb 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> ignore the console and it's daily, weekly, monthly usage 'data'... it's little more than a gimmick. Running around the house turning off the landing light won't make a notable difference to your quarterly bill.


If you know about saving energy then you know about saving energy and you don't need a little box to tell you. I think people think you need it to connect to the network but you don't. The gas meter talks to the electricity meter and the electricity meter talks to the network.


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## Once a Wheeler (18 Feb 2021)

Dave7 said:


> Side garden is locked so I would still nee to be in.


…not if you re-position it to a point accessible to the road. Of course, depends somewhat on the size of Château Dave7.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2021)

I pay mine quarterly by cheque with a paper bill. Means I have to read the meter, its a bit tricky to see up in the cupboard so just take a photo on the phone and read it from that. If it's getting tricky to kneel down to read I'd take a photo


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## winjim (18 Feb 2021)

I can just about see my gas meter in the back of the cupboard but I'm buggered if I can get to it or read it.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> this means they can mess around with your tariff and start to charge you more during peak times if they want to.



That's why I'm not having one and have ignored dozens of letters and emails urging me to book an appointment and have one installed. Bollox to them, they aren't pushing them for my benefit. It's just a mixture of greenwash and corporate self-interest. 
ATM, all they know is how much energy I use over a period between my submitted readings. They haven't got a clue how much I use in peak hours vs off-peak hours or weekdays vs weekends. The only way you will save money with smart meters is if you modify your energy use behaviour in line with what the supplier wants to achieve - which with leccy is reduce peak demand and increase off-peak demand in order to reduce transmission losses and help with things like voltage/frequency supply stability.


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## jowwy (18 Feb 2021)

I have both electric and gas smart meters, they match up exactly every month with my bill too which i pay by visa.....not direct debit within 14 days of the bill

they cant put up your tarrif or change your bill unless you agree to it. I have the smart console on my office desk and yes switching off lights and sockets etc etc does make a difference.

there is no such thing as peak and off peak electric, you pay the same per w/h whether its morning, noon or night......


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## midlife (18 Feb 2021)

Blimey, economy 7 is still going lol

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/economy-7.html


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## Bazzer (18 Feb 2021)

jowwy said:


> there is no such thing as peak and off peak electric, you pay the same per w/h whether its morning, noon or night......


?? On one of SSE's current tariffs, off peak is 1.64p cheaper per kwh than standard.


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## oldwheels (18 Feb 2021)

Bazzer said:


> ?? On one of SSE's current tariffs, off peak is 1.64p cheaper per kwh than standard.


My tariff with SSE is approx 4p less for off peak than for standard. I use pretty much the same amount of standard all year round and off peak is used for hot water in summer plus one storage heater in winter. I read the meters weekly to keep an eye on consumption particularly in winter.


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## ianrauk (18 Feb 2021)

midlife said:


> Blimey, economy 7 is still going lol
> 
> https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/economy-7.html


I have Economy 7


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## midlife (18 Feb 2021)

ianrauk said:


> I have Economy 7



Just seem to remember it as a blast from the past, 1970's when storage heaters seemed all the rage....


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Feb 2021)

Buy a kids periscope to do your meter readings without bending down so low.


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## Tripster (18 Feb 2021)

I was with Scottish Power who had installed a smart meter for electricity. Didnt like them so switched a year ago to Octopus Energy. Smart meter didn't work with them. I read meters every month and submit reading online. Within a few hours they email me a breakdown of bill. Scottish Power £125 a month...Octopus Energy started on £106 a month and after first 12 months its now down to £75 a month dual fuel. No bother reading meters each month for accurate bill. They have just asked me to register for a new Generation Smart meter for both gas and electric.


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## ebikeerwidnes (18 Feb 2021)

Firstly - if you have trouble reading the meter - get a cheap camera - or use a phone - and take a photo
much easier and then you have a record

secondly
if you get a Smart meter make sure you only let then instalklk it is it is SMETS2 - NOT 1
they are not supposed to install the old ones but they may still do to keep to targets

once you have a proper one you do no need to read the meter the console will do it for you - from your sofa if you want!

Also - if you use a lot of power over night - look at the electric car tariffs - in some cases they will actually pay you to use electricity (OK weird) because the generators have power stations that need to stay on tick over but three is no-one to use the power
Hence - they pay the suppliers to use it
Great for people with electric cars - but also great for doing the washing or using the dryer

WHich is the true benefit of smart meters
of course it does mean the supplier has access to all you power usage - but then does Google know where you are????? - always????

Personally I want a better smart meter - not the SMETS1 version I currently have which is as good as the old one they removed
at least I didn;t pay for it
- well actually we all did - thanks to everyone for paying to install a useless smart meter in my house
or maybe - WHO THE HELL AUTHORISED THIS TO BE PAID FOR THROUGH EVERYONE'S BILLS@


anyway

TLDR - SMETS2 - OK - possibly good
SMETS1 - bleedin useless
SMETS2 - loads of your usage data goes to the company


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## snorri (18 Feb 2021)

jowwy said:


> there is no such thing as peak and off peak electric, you pay the same per w/h whether its morning, noon or night......


Not necessarily true, it depends what you have signed up for.
I was on Restricted Hours B tariff until quite recently when overnight tariff was considerably cheaper than daytime.


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## lane (18 Feb 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm unsure as to whether the console shows the meter reading though... somebody who actually has a smart meter will be able to tell you that
> 
> my mother's shows daily usage, but I've not fiddled with it that much to find out what else it displays. It seems a bit shoddy... press a button and not much happens, then five seconds after I've stopped pressing, something happens and it's not what was expected, then I can't work out how to get it back to its normal 'daily' display.



I have a smart meter. I had a consul but don't use it. I can log on and get lots of info about my energy usage, peaks etc. I get early warning how much our usrage has gone up this lockdown. My bills are accurate. Ok don't need to read the meter. What is so bad about them?


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## ebikeerwidnes (18 Feb 2021)

When mine worked - and every other one I have seen - you can take the meter reading from the console


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## Milkfloat (19 Feb 2021)

There are over 11B reasons why they are bad, that was the initial cost estimate for forcing everyone to have one. That cost is rising significantly as every target is missed. We are too early with this - until we have battery packs in our houses and our electric cars can provide power to the network when they are not needed there is no real benefit. By the time that technology is mainstream even these new meters will be obsolete and we start installing new ones again. I am not against smart meters, just the stupid we the UK is implementing them.


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## lane (19 Feb 2021)

I like mine - but the thing that's bonkers that is that if you change supplier it doesn't work


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## jowwy (19 Feb 2021)

lane said:


> I like mine - but the thing that's bonkers that is that if you change supplier it doesn't work


i recently changed suppliers, my smart meter works with the new supplier, but they cant alter the payment date that the meter states......


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## Tripster (19 Feb 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> There are over 11B reasons why they are bad, that was the initial cost estimate for forcing everyone to have one. That cost is rising significantly as every target is missed. We are too early with this - until we have battery packs in our houses and our electric cars can provide power to the network when they are not needed there is no real benefit. By the time that technology is mainstream even these new meters will be obsolete and we start installing new ones again. I am not against smart meters, just the stupid we the UK is implementing them.


By the time we have the infrastructure for electric vehicles and actual cars that dont cost stupid money that the average joe could never afford we will all be well past caring about smart meters


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## ebikeerwidnes (19 Feb 2021)

The moronic concept that a system was accepted to be implemented at a cost to the public (via bills) was initially OK - except that it turned out that the design did not seem to include switching suppliers - when the governments polices have always been to encourage switching.
So - who would benefit from a system where switching is discouraged - well it ain't the people who could save money by switching - or the government - the only people who benefit from this are the suppliers - who then get to increase the amount the whole system costs by suddenly realising (???) that they need to take out all the old SMETS1 meters and replace them with SMET2 systems that actually work properly in the real world.

Basically the whole concept was badly supervised by the people who are supposed to keep and eye on things like this - including the government.
And the people paying the bills are the ones that suffer!


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## BoldonLad (19 Feb 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> .......
> 
> Basically the whole concept was badly supervised by the people who are supposed to keep and eye on things like this - including the government.
> And* the people paying the bills are the ones that suffer!*



How unusual !


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## Drago (26 Feb 2021)

When my old mechanical meter packed up Scottish power lied to me and persisted in telling me that by law I had to have a smart meter.

I don't want one. My Mum suffered terrible grief when her recent, supposedly updated, smart meter failed to operate when she switched suppliers. Then there is the question of temporal charging, the f@#$%*s charging me more at peak times

A cut and paste of the regs from the governments own website, and a threat of legal action if they kept lying to me quickly brought them to book. My meter cupboard is outside, so just the be sure they don't try to bend me over I got 2 x industrial grade hasp and stables, and 2 x £50 Chubb padlocks that nearly gave me a hernia ligging home from the shops. They'll struggle to get in there now, and if they try it and don't have a Court order (which they won't) ill have them for criminal damage.

They're a bunch of liars, plain and simple and should not be trusted at any level. They have government imposed targets to hit and staff are incentivised to push smart meters and will persist in the most extraordinary lies in order to try and get one into your premises. Do not let them do so uncer any circumstances.


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## Tripster (26 Feb 2021)

Drago said:


> When my old mechanical meter packed up Scottish power lied to me and persisted in telling me that by law I had to have a smart meter.
> 
> I don't want one. My Mum suffered terrible grief when her recent, supposedly updated, smart meter failed to operate when she switched suppliers. Then there is the question of temporal charging, the f@#$%*s charging me more at peak times
> 
> ...


Scottish Power, that’s the Scottish for ya


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## ebikeerwidnes (26 Feb 2021)

I have just been forced onto EDF because Green Energy Network went bust 

Maybe someone will finally get my on SMETS1 meter updated to work

or maybe not

as far as dynamic charging is concerned - you would have to be on a tarif that allows for it - if they try to make it so that all tariffs are dynamic I suggest started a campaign and start writing to MPs and regulators


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## Tenacious Sloth (26 Feb 2021)

I’ve heard that a smart meter can tell whether you’ve had the Covid vaccine or not and can grass you up wirelessly.


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## Tenacious Sloth (26 Feb 2021)

Drago said:


> When my old mechanical meter packed up Scottish power lied to me and persisted in telling me that by law I had to have a smart meter.
> 
> I don't want one. My Mum suffered terrible grief when her recent, supposedly updated, smart meter failed to operate when she switched suppliers. Then there is the question of temporal charging, the f@#$%*s charging me more at peak times
> 
> ...



So let me see if I understand this correctly...

You’ve spent over £100 securing your meter cupboard so that they can’t fit a smart meter and increase your tariff by 0.02p?


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## Phaeton (26 Feb 2021)

I had one installed in my fathers house, he no longer lives there as he's currently with my sister, Bulb were useless when the display didn't work wanting me to return it to them at my cost. Now Avea (his new supplier) claim they can't read it, but when pushed they can but they have to manually read it from their end & then put the data into their system, they have still taken over £220 from his account even though his read bills are less than £100 & refusing to do anything about it until after 3 months.


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## Drago (26 Feb 2021)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> So let me see if I understand this correctly...
> 
> You’ve spent over £100 securing your meter cupboard so that they can’t fit a smart meter and increase your tariff by 0.02p?


Yes thats right, oh, wait...



Tripster said:


> Scottish Power, that’s the Scottish for ya


Although weve come a long way from burning a mix of peat and englishmen to keep warm.


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## keithmac (27 Feb 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> I have just been forced onto EDF because Green Energy Network went bust
> 
> Maybe someone will finally get my on SMETS1 meter updated to work
> 
> ...



Good luck with EDF, never again for us!.


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