# Forgot how much harder riding fixed is



## bonker (15 Jan 2014)

I've been on a geared bike (it has mudguards) recently but one way and another I ended up on the fixed this morning. Blimey my legs were complaining on the hills and all the stop starting in traffic.
Still much more fun though.


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## JayMac (15 Jan 2014)

I regret flogging my langster, there are times when I miss the sheer simplicity of pedal pedal pedal pedal pedal pedal.

None of the clicking to find the right gear lark, I should build another fixie!


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## bonker (15 Jan 2014)

By the time I rode home I was back in the zone.
I'm riding fixed tomorrow whether it's raining or not. Fixed also keeps you warmer so I ditched the legwarmers too.


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## dave r (15 Jan 2014)

I do more miles on fixed than on gears, its the geared bike that tends to feel strange.


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## Pennine-Paul (15 Jan 2014)

Geared bikes,they're the work of the devil I tell thee


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## edindave (16 Jan 2014)

I have mudguards on the fixed so it's the all-weather bike, and the roadie comes out only on fine days, group/club runs, and events.
The fixed is definitely more fun!


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## derrick (16 Jan 2014)

I love my Fixie, used mostly for commuting but as of late have been doing longer rides on it, i love the low maintenance on it. it will never replace the road bike but they are good fun.


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## dave r (16 Jan 2014)

[QUOTE 2875650, member: 259"]I love fixies but them thare hills combined with age mean I need gears. When I retire I'm going somewhere flatter.[/quote]

How old are you? I'm 62 and when I'm on my fixed I look on hills as a challenge.


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## edindave (16 Jan 2014)

[QUOTE 2876221, member: 259"]I have a fixie mountain bike[/quote]

 I can't even imagine what that must be like on downhill trails.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Jan 2014)

Try 66" single speed in the hills and winds of Rossendale, phew I too had forgotten how hard 1 gear is, but weirdly such fun. Gunna try 100 miler on it Saturday with @Pennine-Paul.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Jan 2014)

Oh I forgot it's belt drive as well so even quieter than a typical 1 gear.


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## mcshroom (16 Jan 2014)

Currently my SS is set up with a 68" which is a bit high for Cumbria really. I'm still too chicken to turn the wheel round and try it fixed though


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## dave r (16 Jan 2014)

[QUOTE 2876221, member: 259"]Only 52 Dave, but there are some horridly hilly bits on the commute and I have problems with the knees. I have a fixie mountain bike (!), which is great for the fairly flat forest I live next door to, but I wouldn't want to be doing it to go to work.[/quote]

Similar to this? http://goo.gl/maps/9vZr0


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## MrGrumpy (17 Jan 2014)

derrick said:


> I love my Fixie, used mostly for commuting but as of late have been doing longer rides on it, i love the low maintenance on it. it will never replace the road bike but they are good fun.


 
Ditto for me, my Langster is my go to bike for most of my commuting, last year being the exception where I put a good 2000 miles at least on the road bike. Generally if its dryish I will wheel out the road bike but anything else its the Langster fitted with guards!


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## HorTs (17 Jan 2014)

I'm not trolling here but is it much fun riding a fixie?

You don't get to freewheel down hills.


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## derrick (17 Jan 2014)

HorTs said:


> I'm not trolling here but is it much fun riding a fixie?
> 
> You don't get to freewheel down hills.


Why would you want to freewheel any where?


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## 4F (17 Jan 2014)

HorTs said:


> I'm not trolling here but is it much fun riding a fixie?
> 
> You don't get to freewheel down hills.



Freewheeling is so last year, finding a big hill and going balls out with you legs doing 200 rpm is where it is at


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## fossyant (17 Jan 2014)

HorTs said:


> I'm not trolling here but is it much fun riding a fixie?
> 
> You don't get to freewheel down hills.



Yeh... It's bloody good training.


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## fossyant (17 Jan 2014)

4F said:


> Freewheeling is so last year, finding a big hill and going balls out with you legs doing 200 rpm is where it is at



Can't do 200. A smidge over 150 for me, but not at the minute. I'd be back in A&E with my knackers if I went for it. Still riding to work every day on fixed. Am I mad ?


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## dave r (17 Jan 2014)

fossyant said:


> Still riding to work every day on fixed. Am I mad ?



No. I tend to max out at around 150-160, less if its really cold.


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## Smurfy (17 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> No. I tend to max out at around 150-160, less if its really cold.


About 30mph tops then? That's about my max for a 65" gear. For me that's only achievable for seconds at a time, rather than minutes!


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## Smurfy (17 Jan 2014)

HorTs said:


> I'm not trolling here but is it much fun riding a fixie?


Try it!


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## dave r (17 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> About 30mph tops then? That's about my max for a 65" gear. For me that's only achievable for seconds at a time, rather than minutes!



yes 30-35, I'm on a 66" 48x19.


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## Dan B (17 Jan 2014)

I admire the refreshing honesty of the subject line. What happened to all the claims of greater efficiency due to straight chainline, "flywheel effect", lower weight ...?

(I also commute on a fixed gear bike and I don't believe them either. But thy rarely seem to be challenged)


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## Smurfy (17 Jan 2014)

Unless you have a _very_ hilly commute it isn't harder (once you've got used to it).


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## MrGrumpy (18 Jan 2014)

37 mph on a 48 x 17 not quite as spinney, however that is a very short hill I reckon a longer one could up it a bit more. Been riding fixed since 2007-2008 and its great, fitness and actually improves I reckon you riding once you switch over to gears.


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## MrGrumpy (18 Jan 2014)

Dan B said:


> I admire the refreshing honesty of the subject line. What happened to all the claims of greater efficiency due to straight chainline, "flywheel effect", lower weight ...?
> 
> (I also commute on a fixed gear bike and I don't believe them either. But thy rarely seem to be challenged)



I can certainly sprint quicker on the fixed gear I`m on compared with the geared road bike and also climb faster on manageable gradients, that is my experience.


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## Smurfy (18 Jan 2014)

With respect to sprinting. I believe fixed eliminates the six o'clock and twelve o'clock dead spot, which is an unwanted complication and encumbrance, as you have to expend energy using the ankle joint and associated muscles to yank the pedals through and past the dead spot.


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## MrGrumpy (19 Jan 2014)

4F said:


> Freewheeling is so last year, finding a big hill and going balls out with you legs doing 200 rpm is where it is at



got up to 180 rpm today, and still felt in control just............


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## jazzkat (19 Jan 2014)

I went for a ride yesterday and while riding up Kirkstone pass (on my geared bike) I started thinking "this feels like hard work". 
I haven't really been out since before Christmas and I put it down to being a 'bit out of form' then I looked down and realised that I was still in my middle ring rather than the smallest ring I'd probably have used before. 
Riding fixed has recalibrated my effort, I now try harder


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## dave r (19 Jan 2014)

MrGrumpy said:


> got up to 180 rpm today, and still felt in control just............



I had my right calf cramp up today descending Purley Chase near Mancetter, I was travelling at around 31mph and spinning at just over 150rpm.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

I did a 52 mile ride to the coast yesterday single speed 65" on my belt drive bike. I was considering of converting it to belt drive fixed but I really enjoyed the ride yesterday. The only downside was the return 7 mile ascent to my house, in parts it's 13% and I could of done with the forward momentum in those bits.

Not so sure whether just to carry on single speed or spend the £150 to convert....hmmm.


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## 4F (19 Jan 2014)

MrGrumpy said:


> got up to 180 rpm today, and still felt in control just............


I have to say 150 is just about my comfortable top these days, anything more than that and it starts to feel


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> I had my right calf cramp up today descending Purley Chase near Mancetter, I was travelling at around 31mph and spinning at just over 150rpm.


Ouch! What did you do? Emergency stop?


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> I did a 52 mile ride to the coast yesterday single speed 65" on my belt drive bike. I was considering of converting it to belt drive fixed but I really enjoyed the ride yesterday. The only downside was the return 7 mile ascent to my house, in parts it's 13% and I could of done with the forward momentum in those bits.
> 
> Not so sure whether just to carry on single speed or spend the £150 to convert....hmmm.


A Surly Fixxer might have worked and been a lot cheaper if you have compatible hubs, but sadly I think production has stopped.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/surly-fixxer-hub-converter/

Edit: Gone but not forgotten
http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_fixxer_is_dead_long_live_the_king


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> Not so sure whether just to carry on single speed or spend the £150 to convert....hmmm.


Thirty quid off ebay, but unfortunately you'll still need a Gates fixed sprocket.


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## dave r (19 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> Ouch! What did you do? Emergency stop?



Thats about all I can do, 150rpm is too fast to just pull my foot out, trouble with it is there rarely any warning, if I get a warning I can drop my heel more at the bottom of the stroke and stretch the calf a bit, which stops the problem, with no warning then a sharp stop and a stretch at the road side, I came back to fixed after a long break about six years ago and I've had this problem when its cold since I came back.


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> Thats about all I can do, 150rpm is too fast to just pull my foot out, trouble with it is there rarely any warning, if I get a warning I can drop my heel more at the bottom of the stroke and stretch the calf a bit, which stops the problem, with no warning then a sharp stop and a stretch at the road side, I came back to fixed after a long break about six years ago and I've had this problem when its cold since I came back.


It happened to me a few times during my first winter on fixed. It was  painful to say the least! Could feel it for ages afterwards. 

What worked for me was
1. Moving my cleats as far back as they would go, which unloads the calf muscle quite a bit. Fortunately my frame design means I still clear the front wheel by a smidgeon (but nobody turns the bars that much at speed anyway).
2. I made a habit of stretching my muscles a lot more when I'm not riding, so it's not so much of a shock when I get on and ride.
3. Warmer clothing for my legs and waterproof/windproof tights on the coldest days.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jan 2014)

if you want to make riding fixed less hard fit a rear brake and use it instead of your legs to brake.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> A Surly Fixxer might have worked and been a lot cheaper if you have compatible hubs, but sadly I think production has stopped.
> 
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/surly-fixxer-hub-converter/
> 
> ...





YellowTim said:


> Thirty quid off ebay, but unfortunately you'll still need a Gates fixed sprocket.


These still add to £80 (the gates screw on sprocket can be bought from inside Europe) and the screw on sprocket is only available as CDX. 

So I'd be no better off. I could change to chain drive a bit cheaper, but where's the fun in that?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> Thats about all I can do, 150rpm is too fast to just pull my foot out, trouble with it is there rarely any warning, if I get a warning I can drop my heel more at the bottom of the stroke and stretch the calf a bit, which stops the problem, with no warning then a sharp stop and a stretch at the road side, I came back to fixed after a long break about six years ago and I've had this problem when its cold since I came back.


Oddly, I find that fixed stops me getting the quad cramps I occasionally get (and hate).


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## dave r (19 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> It happened to me a few times during my first winter on fixed. It was  painful to say the least! Could feel it for ages afterwards.
> 
> What worked for me was
> 1. Moving my cleats as far back as they would go, which unloads the calf muscle quite a bit. Fortunately my frame design means I still clear the front wheel by a smidgeon (but nobody turns the bars that much at speed anyway).
> ...



I'm on clips and straps, but I'm about due a new set of pedals and clips, the pedals I'm using have been on three different bikes and are a bit knackered, when I change them I'll have to have a look at moving the feet a bit more forward and see if it helps, I'm wearing long johns under my tights when its sub zero perhaps extending that to wearing them right through the winter might help, thanks for the ideas they've given me more things to try.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> It happened to me a few times during my first winter on fixed. It was  painful to say the least! Could feel it for ages afterwards.
> 
> What worked for me was
> 1. Moving my cleats as far back as they would go, which unloads the calf muscle quite a bit. Fortunately my frame design means I still clear the front wheel by a smidgeon (but nobody turns the bars that much at speed anyway).
> ...


Quite a few research papers show that stretching actually causes more injuries than stretching prevents, however, warming up properly is shown to prevent injuries. 
A few month back I started getting cramps a lot despite stretching out before rides. Since reading the research I started walking up the silly gradient 300 yard lane onto the main road which is almost straight from my drive end. Since I started walking that short stretch I've not had a cramp - I'm hoping it's not coincidence and that heaving up the hill with cold muscles is what was causing the cramps.


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

dave r said:


> I'm on clips and straps, but I'm about due a new set of pedals and clips, the pedals I'm using have been on three different bike and are a bit knackered, when I change them I'll have to have a look at moving the feet a bit more forward and see if it helps, I'm wearing long johns under my tights when its sub zero perhaps extending that to wearing them right through the winter might help, thanks for the ideas they've given me more things to try.


In that case you can put your feet wherever you like (assuming you can find toe clips long enough). I haven't tried this method of foot retention, but I'd guess they allow even more freedom of fore-aft foot positioning. It's also worth noting that there are people who advocate a highly rearwards cleat position for reasons of economy and efficiency. Googling for 'mid foot cleat position' will bring up lots more material. For what it's worth, I moved my cleats from max forward to max aft, on my shoes that was a 22mm change, and still a long way from a true mid-foot position. If you go for extra clothing make sure it's not so tight to restrict blood flow. I'll be interested to know if any of this works for you.


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> These still add to £80 (the gates screw on sprocket can be bought from inside Europe) and the screw on sprocket is only available as CDX.
> 
> So I'd be no better off. I could change to chain drive a bit cheaper, but where's the fun in that?


Ahhhh, OK. Going chain just destroys the advantage and convenience of not having to oil/clean the belt. If it was mine I'd ride as is for a good while to get some use and enjoyment, then convert to center-track fixed after a year or two. 

My commuter is center-track single-speed belt, and it's perfect for my requirements. No matter how much rain or muck on the road, I just sling it in the hallway when I get home without needing to do anything to the 'chain' to keep it running sweet. Every few months I wipe the bike down with baby-wipes, but there's no oily mess on the chainstay or rear rim to deal with. It's perfect!


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> Quite a few research papers show that stretching actually causes more injuries than stretching prevents, however, warming up properly is shown to prevent injuries.
> A few month back I started getting cramps a lot despite stretching out before rides. Since reading the research I started walking up the silly gradient 300 yard lane onto the main road which is almost straight from my drive end. Since I started walking that short stretch I've not had a cramp - I'm hoping it's not coincidence and that heaving up the hill with cold muscles is what was causing the cramps.


My stretching is done at odd moments during the day, rather than immediately prior to riding. I've been doing it for so long that I can stretch my calves quite well just by using the opposing muscles.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

YellowTim said:


> Ahhhh, OK. Going chain just destroys the advantage and convenience of not having to oil/clean the belt. If it was mine I'd ride as is for a good while to get some use and enjoyment, then convert to center-track fixed after a year or two.
> 
> My commuter is center-track single-speed belt, and it's perfect for my requirements. No matter how much rain or muck on the road, I just sling it in the hallway when I get home without needing to do anything to the 'chain' to keep it running sweet. Every few months I wipe the bike down with baby-wipes, but there's no oily mess on the chainstay or rear rim to deal with. It's perfect!


Exactly my thoughts, soooo, I've just splashed out and spoilt myself by clicking buy on...some quoc Pham shoes and a brooks cadmium saddle...yaaaay.

I've only done about 80 miles on the belt so far but I do like the idea of it, so hopefully it'll give me the 10,000 km the internet suggests it should. Once the current train drive is trashed I'll convert then.


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## Smurfy (19 Jan 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> Exactly my thoughts, soooo, I've just splashed out and spoilt myself by clicking buy on...some quoc Pham shoes and a brooks cadmium saddle...yaaaay.
> 
> I've only done about 80 miles on the belt so far but I do like the idea of it, so hopefully it'll give me the *10,000 km* the internet suggests it should. Once the current train drive is trashed I'll convert then.



Is there a source for this? I've done about 1500-2000 miles on center-track belt so far, and it's been a maintenance-free dream. I'm hoping there will be some signs of wear and strain before the belt finally snaps.

Another good thing is that you don't have to keep adjusting the belt tension for wear like with a chain, mine hasn't been touched and it's still right.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Jan 2014)

Here's just one example but a quick google search fetches up loads....

Off the Chain! A Conversation with British cyclist James Bowthorpe, who used a Gates Carbon Drive-equipped Santos to set a new record for fastest around-the- world ride

(Oct. 28, 2009) James Bowthorpe is recuperating in London after his record-setting 174- day, 18,000-mile bike ride around the world, a trip that averaged more than 100 miles per day and smashed the previous record for pedaling the globe by 20 days. We rang up the 32-year-old furniture maker, who finished on Sept. 19, to chat about his custom Santos bike, the Gates Carbon Drive that powered his chain-free journey, eating mystery meat in Asia and experiencing the fright of his life in Iran.

Q: What did you think of the Gates Carbon Drive?

JB: When Santos approached me about using one of their bikes, they asked if Iíd like to try the Gates belt drive. I said ëyesí and Iím really glad I did. I didnít have to lubricate it or do any maintenance. I didnít alter the tension on the belt for the whole 18,000 miles.


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## joro (20 Jan 2014)

Dan B said:


> I admire the refreshing honesty of the subject line. What happened to all the claims of greater efficiency due to straight chainline, "flywheel effect", lower weight ...?


It isn't really a yes/no black/white issue is it? The question is _how big_ are the benefits of fixed and are they enough to counteract the downsides? Straight chainline is more efficient although that applies to both fixed and SS. The flywheel effect is real enough but I'm not sure how _much_ difference it really makes compared with a well developed pedalling technique on a freewheel bike. The weight saving argument is a bit marginal too compared with SS, but more significant compared with gears. Much better control at low speeds is a big positive benefit of fixed. Showing off by trackstanding obviously massages some egos. 

The downsides of fixed are literally on the downsides, and mostly covered upthread. Cramping up is potentially bloody dangerous. You need to take more careful lines through corners with less margin for error. And the swoopy joy of freewheeling is unavailable. 

I alternate between fixed and freewheel on my Day One according to mood really and enjoy both. 

Can I ask the belt drive users what they do following a p*%$@ure? I believe belts need much higher tension than chains - can you achieve this on the road, at night, in the pouring rain?


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## joro (20 Jan 2014)

Cleaned my touring bike and my fixed wheel bike this afternoon and remembered another big advantage of fixed wheel ... much less time needed to keep it clean. I spent less than half the time and achieved a much more thorough result on the fixed than on the 3 x 9 derailleur geared tourer. 

Sorry if that's a bit OT, it isn't exactly about riding fixed is it? 

Riding fixed means you save on brake block and wheel rim wear, and cleaning off the associated cruddy gunge which means riding fixed is easier in the sense of saving your maintenance time. 

I've hardly touched my brakes for ages on the Day One. I know what I'll be riding until the road skog diminishes.


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## Dan B (21 Jan 2014)

joro said:


> The downsides of fixed are literally on the downsides


I think there's a bit more to it than that. In order to accept that riding fixed is "bloody good training" (does anyone disagree with that?) you have to accept that it's overall more effort than riding with many gears/a free wheel. It can't be better training _and_ be more efficient overall. Can it?


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## tyred (21 Jan 2014)

Dan B said:


> I think there's a bit more to it than that. In order to accept that riding fixed is "bloody good training" (does anyone disagree with that?) you have to accept that it's overall more effort than riding with many gears/a free wheel. It can't be better training _and_ be more efficient overall. Can it?



It does force you to have a smooth pedal stroke and to be able to ride efficiently at a wide range of cadences.


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## Smurfy (21 Jan 2014)

joro said:


> Can I ask the belt drive users what they do following a p*%$@ure? I believe belts need much higher tension than chains - can you achieve this on the road, at night, in the pouring rain?


There's an app for that. It works like a guitar tuner to set the belt tension.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/carbon-drive-bicycle-calculator/id438346486?mt=8

But I don't use the app. I just calculated the load required to cause a given deflection of the belt at mid-span, then used a fishing balance and a ruler. If I had a puncture I'd just fix it up quickly to get home, then check it properly later.

Oh, and you don't need much tension. For maximum belt life I believe you are supposed to use the minimum tension required to avoid slippage of the belt over the teeth (which would damage the belt). The required belt tension varies according to gearing and rider weight/strength (Gates have a lookup table). I have mine set up for a light rider on single-speed/fixed, and it's never slipped once in 1500-2000 miles, or needed adjusting.

Belt is definitely the way forward!


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## anothersam (25 Jan 2014)

Fixed is too hard for me.

I have half a dozen bikes, all singlespeed freewheel. They're all different – but not so different that I need to alter my entire mindset when I go riding one or the other. Most often when I'm out, at least part of the time I'll be thinking about something, which requires a degree of auto-pilot. Changing just one of my bikes to fixed (or geared, for that matter, though the effect is less pronounced) would make that difficult, if not impossible; it would throw me off-balance, which is not always a bad thing, except maybe on a bike.

For me, freewheeling is the most fun that can be had on two wheels. However, as a big fan of fun, I can only approve of anything that causes more of it for you.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (25 Jan 2014)

joro said:


> It isn't really a yes/no black/white issue is it? The question is _how big_ are the benefits of fixed and are they enough to counteract the downsides? Straight chainline is more efficient although that applies to both fixed and SS. The flywheel effect is real enough but I'm not sure how _much_ difference it really makes compared with a well developed pedalling technique on a freewheel bike. The weight saving argument is a bit marginal too compared with SS, but more significant compared with gears. Much better control at low speeds is a big positive benefit of fixed. Showing off by trackstanding obviously massages some egos.
> 
> The downsides of fixed are literally on the downsides, and mostly covered upthread. Cramping up is potentially bloody dangerous. You need to take more careful lines through corners with less margin for error. And the swoopy joy of freewheeling is unavailable.
> 
> ...


On my bike, although I've not punctured I've tensioned the belt as it was slipping, its really easy as I have Trek's version of Paul components dropouts with bolts that push the sliders so I can't see it being anything but a heap easier than my Brompton!


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## joro (26 Jan 2014)

@YellowTim, @bromptonfb Thank you both for the user experiences - I'm interested in belt drive as n+1 although concerned about the tensioning issue. Your replies are very useful.


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