# Feeding the puncture fairy



## DaddyPaddey (2 Jun 2018)

Riding the Scorpion down a country lane last Wednesday we met a Range Rover who was determined not to get the slightest bit of grass [let alone mud] on his tyres. As there was not room I was forced off the road into a stony farm entrance whilst the RRover swept by without acknowledgment. Approximately 50 mtrs down the road one of my front tyres had deflated.

We couldn’t find the cause of the flat [not helped by having forgotten ones glasses] so put in fresh tube. Pump up, put everything away to discover another flat. Wheel off, more hunting for something in the tyre, without success, tube no 2 in, pump up and go 5 yds to another flat. Wheel off, use friends spare tube [he was riding a Moulton with 20” wheels], but this time success.

We decided to abort the ride as we only had one spare tube left between us and back we went, only as we turned into the car park for the other front to go flat. Getting grumpy now, so Scorpion in car and drive home to discover when boot opened the original tyre had now gone flat as well, making a total of five flats!

I carefully inspected both tyres and found a number of small stones embedded, some needing a magnifying glass to see. So it was a pair of less than a year old Marathon Racers in the bin. MORAL stick to the trusty Marathon Plus’ when riding the narrow lanes of Hampshire.


----------



## byegad (2 Jun 2018)

Sorry you have had such a bad experience of M-racers. I had them on my Catrike for 5k miles or so, and only two punctures. The second one ended my using them as they'd got very bald looking. I'm now on Trikers, more when I've got a few miles on them.


----------



## Smokin Joe (2 Jun 2018)

Has anyone tried solid tyres on a recumbent? I'm tempted as my 20" fronts are a pig to remove.


----------



## flake99please (2 Jun 2018)

I wouldn’t risk solid tyres on a trike. The lateral forces are far greater.


----------



## Smokin Joe (2 Jun 2018)

flake99please said:


> I wouldn’t risk solid tyres on a trike. The lateral forces are far greater.


I did think about that, which is why I wondered if anyone had tried it. 20" tubulars are another thing I've thought of, needing a new rim obviously.


----------



## Bad Machine (2 Jun 2018)

Sounds like what I've had to deal with here in Suffolk - small, sharp flints work their way through the tyre over time - when new, no problems with deflating tyres for ages, then suddenly you seem not to ride 50 yards before you get another flat. I changed to Marathon Plus on one bike, with good results. On the other, I've been trying tyre liners with my "ordinary" Schwalbe tyres - the liners are really thick (well, 2-3mm) strips of hard poly-something that are placed between the inner tube and the inner side of the tyre carcass. Difficult to get into the right place initially, as they arrived in a very tight coil. I've tried getting them into approximately the right place, inflating the inner tube and leaving for a couple of days, then deflating and re-siting the liners to exactly the right place now that they've taken on the rough shape of the tyre. Seems to work as good as the Marathon Plus, and both bikes have remained flat-free (apart from one flat caused by a weld fail at the base of the valve stem). No major drop in ride comfort, I'd argue. I read that Marathon Plus are not as energy-sapping as some "p-resistant" designs, so I'll stick with them, despite their premium price.

Courtesy of a late night alcohol-enhanced fleabay session, and an inquisitive mind, I do have a pair of solid tyres ready to fit - but have held back as user comments have cited the huge drop in ride quality when moving to them from pneumatic tyres - I can understand that solid tyres are unable to "dissipate" the shock of riding over a bump in the road surface in the same way penumatic tyres have the whole inner tube volume to share the air compression that occurs. I keep them ready to experiment when the trailer is completed.


----------



## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2018)

I had pretty much the same problem yesterday. The front went first, and it was a truly tiny flint that did it, the second one was the rear, and it was a huge thorn, that really wasn’t hard to find at all, back lanes of Hampshire and Dorset, exacerbated by a vankenpanzer driver, who didn’t understand the whole ‘drive on the left’ thing.


----------



## byegad (3 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Has anyone tried solid tyres on a recumbent? I'm tempted as my 20" fronts are a pig to remove.


The greatest issue will be vibration. Having spoken to users and read about other users experience, vibration, then lack of grip on rough surfaces are the issues. Perhaps, one day, someone will solve these problems but the reason pneumatic tyres took over from solid and still remain in use is, despite all of the problems. 

I'd suggest trying easier to fit tyres. I've found Big Apples, pumped close to the maximum 70psi, are pretty fast, pretty durable and very easy to fit. I can take off and replace them by hand, using only one tyre lever to start removal.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (3 Jun 2018)

byegad said:


> I'd suggest trying easier to fit tyres. I've found Big Apples, pumped close to the maximum 70psi, are pretty fast, pretty durable and very easy to fit. I can take off and replace them by hand, using only one tyre lever to start removal.



My experience of Delta Cruiser+ has been positive so far; no unwelcome visits from the Fairy - but the road debris I encounter is mostly small fragments of shattered car windscreen glass rather than thorns. Reading this thread has reminded me I really need to check mine again for anything stuck in the tread before it causes a p*ncture. especially as I'm doing a 22 mile round trip later on today. It's easy to get lazy and not bother doing a visual check every day you ride.


----------



## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2018)

byegad said:


> The greatest issue will be vibration. Having spoken to users and read about other users experience, vibration, then lack of grip on rough surfaces are the isues









They are no worse than a pneumatic tyre pumped up to the ‘virtual pressure’ of the Airless tyres ( they’re not solid ). I’ve ridden with them over tens of thousands of miles. Including this ride.

https://www.relive.cc/view/1564535452

https://www.relive.cc/view/1567309631

https://www.relive.cc/view/1569274417






And one very similar to it last year.

Ignore all the manure you will hear from people with little or no experience of the Airless tyres, once you’re used to the ( not very many / not very serious ) foibles / quirks, they are worth their weight in gold.


----------



## Bad Machine (3 Jun 2018)

Whilst your praise for them is uncommon (there have been a lot of negative comments from those who do have experience of them), you don't say if you were on two "solid" wheels, or three ? I hope the most recent designs are lighter than those I bought - heavy on the wheel and on the pocket.

On a more positive tack, it wasn't expensive (£8.95 + del. at Amazon)to buy the tyre liners - I've got similar to this Zefal Z Liner tape https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zefal-Z-Liner-Puncture-Prevention-Tape/dp/B00BQL25KA but specced for a 20"/406 and even still, I had to trim it to fit in the 20" tyres I use. If you fit it and let the excess length overlap, the tyre will squeak as you ride. However, whilst deflating the tyre 24 hours later (with the aim of trimming off overlap), I found the overlap position had been indented into the liner, so careful cutting with a craft knife (then a bit of sanding to smooth the cut edge) produced a perfect length/fit for the tyres (Schwalbe Cruiser IIRC). Low cost and simple, and can be re-used when a worn tyre needs replacing.


----------



## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2018)

Bad Machine said:


> Whilst your praise for them is uncommon (there have been a lot of negative comments from those who do have experience of them), you don't say if you were on two "solid" wheels, or three ? I hope the most recent designs are lighter than those I bought - heavy on the wheel and on the pocket.


On Two and three wheels, everything from a Brompton to an ice Trike. I’ll guarantee I’ve got a load more experience of the tyres than just about anyone I know. It’s each to their own, and I’ll admit they aren’t to everyone’s taste ( not much is ). But I see so much crap written about them, based on ( seemingly ) very little, it makes me howl with laughter.


----------



## DaddyPaddey (3 Jun 2018)

Interestingly I need a tool to get the M+'s on my 700c Upwrong, yet can do it with finger pressure on the Scorpion 20" ers without a problem.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (3 Jun 2018)

I'm curious to know what the tyres are on the Boris Bikes. I see the things virtually every day, but I've never ridden one. Initially I thought they were probably M+, from their looks, but on the last one I looked at I couldn't see any air valve.


----------



## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm curious to know what the tyres are on the Boris Bikes. I see the things virtually every day, but I've never ridden one. Initially I thought they were probably M+, from their looks, but on the last one I looked at I couldn't see any air valve.


Airless tyres in a 37mm fit.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (3 Jun 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Airless tyres in a 37mm fit.



But not Tannus? They seem to always come in weird colours, which I'm sure puts some people off fitting them.


----------



## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> But not Tannus? They seem to always come in weird colours, which I'm sure puts some people off fitting them.


True. They are Tannus though, they do black ones.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (15 Jun 2018)

I tried airless tyres years back.
Two main things were grip in the wet and it felt like you were riding uphill or into a head wind all the time.
On the plus side great for getting fitter + no punctures.
Ended up knocking 15mins off my commute.
It was the wet weather grip that made me go back to pneumatics after coming off a couple of times.


----------



## Racing roadkill (15 Jun 2018)

Nigelnightmare said:


> I tried airless tyres years back.
> Two main things were grip in the wet and it felt like you were riding uphill or into a head wind all the time.
> On the plus side great for getting fitter + no punctures.
> Ended up knocking 15mins off my commute.
> It was the wet weather grip that made me go back to pneumatics after coming off a couple of times.


They do take a bit of getting used to, but ( as you said ) they are great for training. And you do get a smug sense of satisfaction when you know you can’t get punctures in the cold, dark, wet days / nights. The new 25mm versions with a lower ‘virtual pressure’ are much improved as well.


----------



## Smokin Joe (15 Jun 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> They do take a bit of getting used to, but ( as you said ) they are great for training. And you do get a smug sense of satisfaction when you know you can’t get punctures in the cold, dark, wet days / nights. The new 25mm versions with a lower ‘virtual pressure’ are much improved as well.


Have you run them on a recumbent trike?


----------



## Racing roadkill (15 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Have you run them on a recumbent trike?


Can’t say I have.


----------



## Theolegit (20 Jun 2018)

Can never understand why more tyre/wheel manufacturers don’t do tubeless compatability, been on tubeless on my mountain bikes for years! And my road bike for 2. Don’t get punctures anymore! Not looking forward to it when my trike arrives in about a week


----------



## Racing roadkill (20 Jun 2018)

Theolegit said:


> Can never understand why more tyre/wheel manufacturers don’t do tubeless compatibility.


Probably because tubeless is a poor idea on a road bike.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (6 Jul 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Probably because tubeless is a poor idea on a road bike.



Why?


----------



## Racing roadkill (6 Jul 2018)

Nigelnightmare said:


> Why?


The main advantage of a tubeless set up is being able to run much lower pressures than usual, and not run the risk of a pinch flat. The original idea was to run them on relatively big wide, lower pressure, high volume, XC MTB type tyres, on off road bikes, and they work brilliantly in this application. However, the snake oil salesmen got the bright idea to try to apply it to skinny, high pressure road bike tyres. It doesn’t work well at all though. If you do get an intrusion in a higher pressure / lower volume tyre, the sealant sprays out all over your back / the face of the following rider, and can’t do its job, before so much air is lost, that the tyre is squidgy, and pretty useless, for a road bike. You the end up having to de tyre the wheel, to get whatever caused the puncture, out (which is a messy nightmare) then re mounting / re sealant ing the tubeless tyre, which is a complete ache in the ball region, without a high pressure ‘capacitance’ pump, or using an inner tube, which negates the point of the tubeless set up. If you have the pleasure of this rigmarole when you have good conditions, and it’s not dark, it’s 8 / 10 on the achy ball scale, trying to do it in the dark / poor conditions is a job straight from hell. From my experience, most people who rave about tubeless on a road bike, are not doing many poor weather miles / miles in general, on a road bike, with conventional width road tyres ( up to 28 mm wide, and not knobbly). The small advantage, of tubeless is undone instantly ( on a road bike ) multiplied by 100, if they give out, for any reason.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (6 Jul 2018)

Ahh.
Thank you, I didn't know that tubeless tyres had that gunk inside them.

The old style "Tubs" were also a pain in the proverbial, I always stuck with clincher's even when "Time Trialling" in my youth.

Now-a-day's I use clinchers with spare inner tubes and a mini track pump and a couple of tyre levers.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2018)

Road tubeless is great, over 50,000 miles on mine, all weathers, no punctures. As for pumping them up, a bog standard pump is fine not that you will need it much.


----------

