# Walkers on MTB trails



## Rallybiker (8 Jun 2015)

So I was out at Coed y Brenin on Saturday with 2 friends doing the Dragons Back trail. We stopped on the fire road at the top of Pink Heifer for a bite and let a posse of about 7 doers on race spec HT's go in front as we're a bit steady!! We got to the hairpin/ steep bit section and passed a couple out walking up the single track. Now there are miles of marked, walker specific paths in the centre, as well as running tracks. Why on earth do people decide to risk a collision between the both types of users? I take it MTB'ers wouldn't even think of doing visa versa, especially in a trail centre where there is a wealth of bike specific single track there for them. Rant over!!


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## Drago (8 Jun 2015)

For the same reason many cyclists ride on the footpath.


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## Crackle (8 Jun 2015)

Drago said:


> For the same reason many cyclists risen in the footpath.


Deep man.


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## Drago (8 Jun 2015)

I see the curse of auto correct has struck again.


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## Hacienda71 (8 Jun 2015)

Oh I don't know. @dan_bo knows how to find a challenging footpath on a mtb.........


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## Deleted member 23692 (8 Jun 2015)

Conversely you could question why the Forestry Commission dedicated the land as open access (CROW Act 2000, S16). This gives the public legally protected right of access on foot whilst they only give cyclists permissive access on the same land.


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## dan_bo (8 Jun 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Oh I don't know. @dan_bo knows how to find a challenging footpath on a mtb.........



Nearly spannered a guy running on the clayton vale trails a few weeks ago....goes both ways.


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## Archie_tect (8 Jun 2015)

In early Spring we came across a badly shaken MTBer who'd winded himself falling off his bike and was lying some way off the footpath above Crummock. He said he'd skidded off a protruding rock hidden by bracken and come off but thankfully hadn't hit his head on any rocks so no obvious concussion or broken anything. He was riding alone and it was about 4pm by the time we got down to the water's edge so getting chilly. He was lucky we passed him otherwise in his lightweight gear, without any provisions or warm clothes he could've easily broken a leg or his back on rocks and died on the fleeced overnight. His bike was OK but it had taken a battering so he could ride along the shoreline back to his car. We suggested he should go and get checked out but he said he was OK!


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## sidevalve (9 Jun 2015)

If you think you own the roads/tracks buy a german car - you'll feel right at home. [AND these peds don't even pay road tax either !!!]


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## Rallybiker (9 Jun 2015)

So these trails that have been built by the FC, are they classed as footpaths or dedicated MTB trails. Who would be to blame in the event of a collision on a blind part such as the dip in the "Cavity" for example, the walker, for being on a MTB trail, the biker, for reckless riding, or FC as the landowner providing a marked MTB trail ? Confusing! ;-/


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## Deleted member 23692 (9 Jun 2015)

Rallybiker said:


> So these trails that have been built by the FC, are they classed as footpaths or dedicated MTB trails. Who would be to blame in the event of a collision on a blind part such as the dip in the "Cavity" for example, the walker, for being on a MTB trail, the biker, for reckless riding, or FC as the landowner providing a marked MTB trail ? Confusing! ;-/


 Good question. Firstly the Welsh open access maps aren't line at the mo so I'm going by the latest OS explorer map and my professional nounce, and the following is general advice and may vary between locations 

Virtually the entire FC estate was dedicated as Open Access under section 16 of the Crow Act 2000. This gives the public a legally protected free access to 'explore' at will anywhere on that land. There are some exempt areas such as within a certain distance from dwellings, and the owner/occupier can restrict access for certain reasons such as land management, nature conservation or public safety for 28 days per year. MTBing would not qualify for a restriction, unless it was for an organised event and fall within the 28 days available. All they can do is advise that MTBs may be present, but they can't legally stop the hapless walking on the trail in most cases.

On open access land the owner/occupier enjoys greatly reduced liability to the user - the legislation assumes that you understand the risks associated with remote open country and should you fall off a cliff then it's simply your own fault. However AFAIK this has not been tested in the court's yet and how this relates to permissive use by MTB on the same land I'd hate to hazard a guess at. But having been aware of other countryside court actions they tend to be taken on a case by case basis as the conditions are different for each event so it;'s difficult to set a precedent.

Bottom line is unless the land is specifically closed off (ie restricted access) for the purpose of MTBing then you should expect to encounter other uses who may have more legal rights to be there than you

Rights of way are a different matter entirely, and is not covered by the reduced liability mentioned above.

Incidentally some MTB routes at Coed y Brenin run along unsurfaced unclassified county roads, so there's a good change of a horse or vehicles being encountered.

FC cycle code - http://www.mbwales.com/media/viewfile.aspx?filepath=1_20080520101237_e_@@_cyclecode.pdf&filetype=4


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## sheffgirl (6 Jul 2015)

Archie_tect said:


> In early Spring we came across a badly shaken MTBer who'd winded himself falling off his bike and was lying some way off the footpath above Crummock. He said he'd skidded off a protruding rock hidden by bracken and come off but thankfully hadn't hit his head on any rocks so no obvious concussion or broken anything. He was riding alone and it was about 4pm by the time we got down to the water's edge so getting chilly. He was lucky we passed him otherwise in his lightweight gear, without any provisions or warm clothes he could've easily broken a leg or his back on rocks and died on the fleeced overnight. His bike was OK but it had taken a battering so he could ride along the shoreline back to his car. We suggested he should go and get checked out but he said he was OK!


I watched a video by the air rescue helicopter recently, where a mountain bike had fallen and impaled his thigh on his handlebar. Luckily he wasn't alone, if he was he could have very easily died, they had to air lift him to hospital. My OH frequently goes riding in the Peak District on his own, if he isn't back by a certain time I know I need to contact the emergency services. It's scary what could happen.


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## Rallybiker (12 Jul 2015)

Ffoeg said:


> Good question. Firstly the Welsh open access maps aren't line at the mo so I'm going by the latest OS explorer map and my professional nounce, and the following is general advice and may vary between locations
> 
> Virtually the entire FC estate was dedicated as Open Access under section 16 of the Crow Act 2000. This gives the public a legally protected free access to 'explore' at will anywhere on that land. There are some exempt areas such as within a certain distance from dwellings, and the owner/occupier can restrict access for certain reasons such as land management, nature conservation or public safety for 28 days per year. MTBing would not qualify for a restriction, unless it was for an organised event and fall within the 28 days available. All they can do is advise that MTBs may be present, but they can't legally stop the hapless walking on the trail in most cases.
> 
> ...



So really what you're saying is that Mtbers have no rights and are trumped by walkers even on designated trails like Falseteeth, where you could encounter a rambler whilst nailing the 'Cavity'. Scary situation!!


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## Cubist (13 Jul 2015)

Rallybiker said:


> So really what you're saying is that Mtbers have no rights and are trumped by walkers even on designated trails like Falseteeth, where you could encounter a rambler whilst nailing the 'Cavity'. Scary situation!!


However, most waymarked trails in trail centres have warning signs and no entry for walkers. I've encountered some scary moments nevertheless, meeting a dog walker and two dogs on a really fast bermed jumpy section with jumps built in, but the most incredulous moment was at a "family oriented" trail, where on a really fast flowing section of a red route I encountered a man pushing his five or six year old on a little bike up the trail towards me. I stopped to one side of the trail and politely explained it was a bikes only trail, with a one way system, to which the bloke asked me when I had been put in charge. I was just about to explain the safety aspect when a group of four riders going hell for leather came barrelling round the bend behind me, and clattered to a halt in a squeal of brakes and dust. The ensuing exchange wasn't perhaps as polite as it should have been. I shrugged and carried on.


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## Motozulu (13 Jul 2015)

There are plenty of 'no walkers' signs on the Dog and Monkey at Cannock - and yet when people do walk on them and you try and explain that it's bike only and they might get hurt, you get more often than not a sneering reaction.

'kin idiots.


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