# Not sure what's best for daughter getting cycling :(



## Black Sheep (11 Nov 2017)

Apologies for two threads but two very separate questions to be asked...

A few years ago we got Black Lamb a balance bike (paying an extra £10 for it to be a 'frozen' one) and she hardly used it, doing so more recently. 

"it's too hard" is a familiar phrase when she gets fed up of things not going how she expects them to, shuffling along (not scooting) and stopping to lift the front wheel to steer sometimes. 

She's 4 now, and while I'm happy to let her take her own pace at it, she's visibly squashed on it, her knees being slightly higher than her backside making it, I imagine, hard to scoot. 

So, been on eBay and got a Raleigh 'Molly' 12" wheeled bike which we spent today taking the front end apart and re-greasing the headset bearings (trying to promote ownership) 

Having sat her on it so she can easily get her feet down and there's no way she can pedal it, the pedals come up too high, putting the seat up to make it easier to pedal puts her close to being on tip-toes which I imagine is not ideal for swapping from one to the other. 


Wondering if it's worth trying to swap the saddle and seat post to the balance bike to give us some more adjustment. 

Also after advice on saddle height for children, I adjust mine heel of foot on pedal at lowest point, slightly bent knee, done.

Thanks in advance  really want to hit the ground running come spring and get her riding as I know she'll love it.


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## alicat (12 Nov 2017)

Try an Islabike. Cnoc 14 large or Cnoc 16 depending on her size and whether she is nearer 3 or 5.

They are proper bikes - expensive but they hold their value well and can be found secondhand on Ebay etc.


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## Black Sheep (12 Nov 2017)

alicat said:


> Try an Islabike. Cnoc 14 large or Cnoc 16 depending on her size and whether she is nearer 3 or 5.
> 
> They are proper bikes - expensive but they hold their value well and can be found secondhand on Ebay etc.



I'd love to, but, far outside of our budget at the moment, once she's peddling herself then the argument for upgrading to an Islabike is much stronger. 

I know it took me some time to get the hang of riding a bike as, I found out when I was 21, I'm dyspraxic and should significantly struggle to balance a bike.


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## atbman (12 Nov 2017)

First things first - is your daughter dyspraxic (slightly?). If so, from the viewpoint of someone who taught a _severely_ dyspraxic 14 yr old (4 sessions over 4 weeks (at first, he couldn't even walk alongside the bike pushing it, without losing his balance), she will learn to do it anyway even if a bit more slowly..

If not, as User said, take the pedals off. One small caveat, if the crank is a single piece bmx-type crankset, they may stick out a little, enough to catch little legs so take care. Only once were they bad enough for me to take them off completely.

Then take the plentiful advice on this site about teaching her to ride balance-bike style. We teach kids to ride that way virtually every week, mostly in one 2-hr session, even a 3 yr old yesterday.


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## keithmac (13 Nov 2017)

Bit odd but both my two learnt to balance and steer on scooters, which they enjoyed.

My 5 year old daughter still isn't really interested in her bike so I will just bide my time, you can't force them into doing something they don't want to do.

When my son was ready an hour at the local field was all it took for him to be self sufficient on 2 wheels so no doubt my daughter will go the same way!.


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## Black Sheep (16 Nov 2017)

atbman said:


> First things first - is your daughter dyspraxic (slightly?).
> 
> If not, as User said, take the pedals off. One small caveat, if the crank is a single piece bmx-type crankset, they may stick out a little, enough to catch little legs so take care. Only once were they bad enough for me to take them off completely.
> 
> Then take the plentiful advice on this site about teaching her to ride balance-bike style. We teach kids to ride that way virtually every week, mostly in one 2-hr session, even a 3 yr old yesterday.



Yes, I had considered that she could dyspraxic, it is known to be hereditary. 

I've discussed with her the suggestion of removing the pedals and putting them safely in a box ready for when she's able to scoot along quickly so we may look at that option.


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## User10119 (16 Nov 2017)

Black Sheep said:


> Yes, I had considered that she could dyspraxic, it is known to be hereditary.
> 
> I've discussed with her the suggestion of removing the pedals and putting them safely in a box ready for when she's able to scoot along quickly so we may look at that option.



My mum always said, when my sisters and I were growing up, that I was the one that'd never ride a bike. It took me _forever_ to mistress (FCVthereO) it. In recent years it has been put to me that there may be some degree of undiagnosed dyspraxia going on.... Anyhoo, the point is even I got there in the end. More or less, anyway. 

If my youngest is anything to go by, it is well worth getting them out tandemming/tagging-along occasionally as a bit of an incentiviser because that way they get to see that once you can actually ride a bike you get to ride said bike to cafes and ice cream shops.


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## summerdays (16 Nov 2017)

My middle child is going for a test for dyspraxia now as an adult, but looking back I can see lots of things that fit the potential diagnosis. Teaching her to cycle was testing... we tried for a long time, just a little each day (she always half circled rather than normal pedalling), but one day it clicked. Just later than the others.


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## Black Sheep (17 Nov 2017)

part of the issue being space to get out, to get to the park we have to walk about 5 mins but our road has narrow pavements and there's also a busy road to cross. 

However, I think the school, slightly closer, doesn't close it's playground gates as it's also the church car park...


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Nov 2017)

Get them down the park. That 5 min walk will be worth it. Also put in a complaint to the council at the pavements being narrow and unfit for purpose.


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## slowmotion (18 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> Get them down the park. That 5 min walk will be worth it. Also put in a complaint to the council at the pavements being narrow and unfit for purpose.


Yes, parks are good. There's loads of space and, if they fall off on grass, it'll be lot less unpleasant than gravel, paving or tarmac. Besides, there are usually ice creams nearby. Good luck.


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## Black Sheep (22 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> Get them down the park. That 5 min walk will be worth it. Also put in a complaint to the council at the pavements being narrow and unfit for purpose.



I appreciate the sentiment, unfortunately nothing can be done about the pavements, the ones that are nice and wide have cars parked half on them (leaving about a meter for people on foot, as you get onto the older bit of the road (we're talking 150 years old) towards the main road at the bottom the pavements are about half a meter wide and the road is narrower with parked cars next to the pavement, all of which is on a hill. 

Think I might go for the school playground first for the balance bike as the tarmac is smoother rolling while she gets scooting a little then move on to the park when we're getting somewhere.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2017)

Contact the council and get them to prosecute those who have parked on the pavement. As a minimum get the council to ask them to move their vehicles.


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## Black Sheep (23 Feb 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Contact the council and get them to prosecute those who have parked on the pavement. As a minimum get the council to ask them to move their vehicles.



That would include myself. It's the only way for vehicles to physically fit on a street built while Queen Victoria was still in nappies that has been widened once already.

The parts of the road where cars park partially on the pavement are not the issue, the space between car and garden wall is at least 1 meter. 

the parts of the road where cars are NOT parked partially on the pavement, the pavement itself is only 50cm! 

the cars are not the issue, the physical pavement width on the oldest part of the road is the problem, along with the main road across the bottom. 

I think some balance bike trips to the newsagents might be in order though.


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## KneesUp (23 Feb 2018)

It seemed to take a while for the kid to get the hang of cycling - longer than her peers at least. She has had a scooter since she was 4 and was dare-devil speed on that. Only had to take her to casualty once though so that's fine (it was only last summer too - 4 years of riding a scooter, not fallen off once since she got the hang of it 3 yrs 10 months ago, so responsible parent here though it was fine that he'd forgotten the helmet. Kid gets one wheel on the grass edge of the path and arcs through the air and lands on her head as repsonsible parent tries to run to catch up, carrying a football, a chold's coat, a school book bag, a water bottle and a lunch bag - she was fine fortunatelty. Just took 2 hours of sitting in A&E to establish. Never saw a nurse.)

Cycling though was not something she took too - she wanted to understand how to do it before she would try it. "There are several theories as to how people balance on bicycles but ultimately no-one is quite sure how" didn't wash. Then she took to getting moving and in the excitement, stopping pedalling. That was frustrating for everyone. I used to run behind, holding on to the saddle saying "keep pedalling, keep pedalling, keep pedalling, keep pedalling,keep pedalling,keep pedalling,keep pedalling" but as soon as I let got and she got out of earshot she would stop pedalling.

Lots of people said to get a balance bike, but she was too big by then really - she's always been tall for her age. We did swap her bike for a lighter one when she was seriously trying - the MX series from Ridgeback are quite light aluminium frames and are recommended as a 75% as good but 10% the cost (secondhand) of an Isla bike. I paid £30 for hers and it was spotless.

In the end I got one of thos big handle things that fit on the bike because my back was knackered from holding her up, and she got there in the end. Don't force it, don't pressure her and make being able to ride a bike seem exciting - little things are a massive adventure for kids. Bizarely when we had the big handle thing she used to like to practice on the abandonded bit of A625 near Mam Tor, which is quite steep. Going downhill holding a handle with a 6 year old pedalling a bike is fun ... The day she got it we just took the bike and some sandwiches to the big park near the university (because it's flat and quiet-ish when Uni is out for summer) and had fun, The thing I remember her liking was me saying that everyone falls of a bike when they are learning how to ride one - and that on average people fall off 200 times (warning - not a real fact) so then when she fell off she'd countdown - "Only 197 more fallings off now!" and so on.


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## Black Sheep (29 Aug 2018)

As Black Lamb is one of the older ones in her school year we decided to take her out of nursery and put her in the school's summer club (hoping a couple of other new starters would be there and saving £20 a day) 

We quickly found that other children (none starting school with her, all older) were taking bikes and scooters with them to use during the day on the playground and she requested she take her 'balance bike' 

She's fast and happy to let it role down a hill and has adequate use of the brake. She has asked if I can put the pedals back on and I've agreed with the warning that they're not coming off again and the plan to find a bit of park with a slight slope, stick her at the top of it and get her to ''balance bike" down it with her feet on the pedals and then encourage her to pedal down it and continue doing so when at the bottom figuring that she'll learn to push off and get going once she's got the keeping going part sorted...


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## Black Sheep (1 Sep 2018)

Pedals are on (I even test rode the bike through the house  )

Black Ewe noticed that the chain cover wasn't holding together and falling apart "I can fix it, I have the technology" was my reply getting the battery drill and zip ties to replace the broken clips (£16 eBay bike) 

We've found a small grass bank that varies in steepness that leads onto a football pitch in the local park so all systems go!


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## Black Sheep (2 Sep 2018)

Well, we've chucked her down the banking a few times and she's done well, getting feet on the pedals and managing a few pedal revolutions but she's not keeping going on the flat, but it's a start, and I keep telling her that's what we're after, making a start and we've done that by getting one foot on, then a bit later, both feet and then starting to pedal. 

We did have a try being pushed and peddling, it did go pear shaped into a heap with me being told it was my fault making her wobble and making her foot come off... 

So we went back to the hill.


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## Tommy2 (2 Sep 2018)

My daughter never really got on with her balance bike, much preferring the scooter with 2 wheels at the front and I avoided taking her out on her bike with stabilisers as it wasn’t helping her learn to balance and always getting stuck off the ground or tipping it over.
But the past few weeks we’ve gone out on her bike with out stabilisers maybe only once a week and initially no pedals after watching 
View: https://youtu.be/p6SNCvIN4EI
this video, she grasped balancing quite quickly and was gradually gliding further and further until we put the pedals back in and again she is getting better and better, I’m taking it really slowly as I don’t want to put her off and she does struggle to get going unless it’s flat or slightly downwards but the powerful first pedal stroke will come in time.
Like has been said, they will pick it up when they are ready.

My issue now is how to get the length of time in the saddle up without her bum hurting, I guess that will take time and saddle position tweaking.


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## Andrew_Culture (26 Sep 2018)

My daughter never had a proper balance bike, just cheap bikes that I removed the cranks from. She was still hell bent on wanting stabilisers once she got given (not by us) a BSO. Every time we went to Halfords it ended up in heartbreak with me refusing to buy any bike with a Disney sticker on it. In the end I managed to get her a proper bike from Evans. The FIRST time she tried the new bike she discovered that she could ride a bike after all!

I've just written about this here https://veloballs.com/evans-cycles-review/


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## ianrauk (26 Sep 2018)

Andrew_Culture said:


> My daughter never had a proper balance bike, just cheap bikes that I removed the cranks from. She was still hell bent on wanting stabilisers once she got given (not by us) a BSO. Every time we went to Halfords it ended up in heartbreak with me refusing to buy any bike with a Disney sticker on it. In the end I managed to get her a proper bike from Evans. The FIRST time she tried the new bike she discovered that she could ride a bike after all!
> 
> I've just written about this here https://veloballs.com/evans-cycles-review/




*Off topic*
Blimey Andrew, welcome back. I only yesterday was wondering when we had last seen you. Spooky.


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## Phaeton (26 Sep 2018)

I know some don't like them, but I see no issues with stabilisers to get them used to rotating the pedals, it seems frowned upon these days


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## Andrew_Culture (26 Sep 2018)

ianrauk said:


> *Off topic*
> Blimey Andrew, welcome back. I only yesterday was wondering when we had last seen you. Spooky.



Hello there! I've been busy borking myself on skateboards but am itching to get back to some nice safe road cycling


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## ianrauk (26 Sep 2018)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Hello there! I've been busy borking myself on skateboards but am itching to get back to some nice safe road cycling




Good to have you back.


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## Andrew_Culture (26 Sep 2018)

ianrauk said:


> Good to have you back.



Thank you  . That's lovely.


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## icowden (19 Oct 2018)

We started with stablilisers but they didn't really seem to help. A few one hour sessions in the park on a tarmac surface with a very slight incline did the trick. Firstly going along from point a to point b with me holding the back. Then short runs of her pedalling with out me holding, Then practices "starting off" and getting to me (and me catching the bike until she learned to use the brake!).

The handles you can get now are a fantastic idea, and make it a lot less back breaking.


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## tamiya (20 Oct 2018)

Phaeton said:


> I know some don't like them, but I see no issues with stabilisers to get them used to rotating the pedals, it seems frowned upon these days


 
try training wheels + No Helmet... hah!


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## Black Sheep (21 May 2019)

We've been rolling down the ramp of the local church into their car park, and also me giving her a push across the car park as the grass slope in the park wasn't long enough for her to get her feet on and start pedaling and it was hard work to pedal on the grass, we've also not found time until now to do anything much this year so having to cover some of where we were last year. 

the 12" Raleigh Molly that I bought cheap to use as a large balance bike (with the cranks removed etc) is simply too small for a 5 year old who wears 7-8yrs clothes (need to stop standing her in compost) so, while at Decathlon for bits and pieces for Black Ewe's latest interest (triathlons) we had a play with the bikes, looking at a 16" wheeled bike and laughing that she fitted on it quite happily, we spotted the "stand your child here, this is the wheel size we recommend" board where she's exactly between a 16in and a 20in wheel. 

Tried her on a 20in and it seems a bit 'you'll grow into it' so been on eBay and got a Raleigh purple thingy on it's way for £50 from J E James as shop spoiled stock that'll do for a year or two. 

So, hopefully soon we'll be riding.


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## icowden (23 May 2019)

The other thing that really helped my youngest (once she was stable when riding) was teaching her to stand on the left leg, get the right hand pedal at 45 degrees with your right foot on, then stand on it and sit down. Starting off was proving to be the hardest part.


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## Black Sheep (23 Apr 2020)

Well, just before lockdown we had a lesson with someone who helped get us started, 

Since then we've been finding a quiet bit of tarmac off a road to have a try on and while we need a push to get us going, we're getting there! 

wobbles scare us and so we stop, the irony being that we actually solve the wobble out by deciding to stop!


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## keithmac (23 Apr 2020)

My daughter has finally learnt at 8, up and down the garden like a trooper after a couple of push starts. She's took to my sons old 6 speed MTB much better than her Disney Frozen BSO which is no real surprise..


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