# Why are fixies steel framed?



## Chris S (8 Jul 2020)

Why are fixies and single-speed bikes steel framed? Why does aluminum never seem to be used?


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## Landsurfer (8 Jul 2020)

Carbon is used .... but good point ...


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## fossyant (8 Jul 2020)

They do indeed make alloy fixed gear bikes - just sold my 10 year old alloy fixed gear. Pearson sold the Touche - this was quite a common frame, as mine was exactly the same frame, but with a better paint job from my local LBS (much thicker paint on mine - I've compared both).

Although, I think my LBS is back to off the peg Reynolds 500 and 700 series steel bikes -


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## si_c (8 Jul 2020)

My thought would be price as welding steel requires less skill and experience than welding Aluminium.

There are Carbon and Aluminium framed Fixed/Single Speed/Track bikes but they tend to be the more expensive models - the lower cost "trendier" brands do tend to be steel.


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## raleighnut (8 Jul 2020)

Steel is by far the best material for any bike frame


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## Venod (8 Jul 2020)

Do you mean new ones ? if so cheapness and not too bothered about the weight spring to mind.
If you mean most you see being ridden out and about are steel, that could be because some of them are old steel frames that have long dropouts which is handy for adjustment.
I rode a Ti frame which had been cracked and repaired on fixed for a while it was very light in that setup, but because it had vertical dropouts I had to find a gear that was usable without a tensioner (I didn't want the addition of one) I think it involved using a half link.


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## Cycleops (8 Jul 2020)

Cheap steel frames are readily available for manufacturers, these can be specced with horizontal dropouts which don’t require the added expense of a chain tensioner.
Old steel frames have horizontal dropouts which make them prime candidates.


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## MichaelW2 (8 Jul 2020)

Probably to do with scale of production of midrange bikes Large batches of bikes are more cheaply made from Al in big Taiwanese factories. Smaller production runs probably come out of the smaller steel workshops.

Specialised Langster is Al but Merida , one of the Big Five factories, own Specialzed and make them in Taiwan.


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## si_c (8 Jul 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Steel is by far the best material for any bike frame


I'm finding it hard to find a fault in your reasoning  That being said I am down to only one steel framed bike, the others are Alu.


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## Sharky (8 Jul 2020)

Both of mine are alu with carbon forks. 
A lot of fixed bikes are based on old road frames with horizontal rear ends. These were always made of steel.


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## sleuthey (8 Jul 2020)

Venod said:


> If you mean most you see being ridden out and about are steel, that could be because some of them are old steel frames have long dropouts which is handy for adjustment.



^^ this


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## rogerzilla (8 Jul 2020)

Carbon or alu bikes don't play nicely with track ends or horizontal dropouts generally as they are soft materials. Those that do exist usually have replaceable steel inserts for the track nuts/locknuts to bite into.


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## palinurus (8 Jul 2020)

I'm still commuting on my bargain Specialized Singlecross which has an alu frame. 10+ years back some of the large bike manufacturers were offering singlespeed road bikes so perhaps aluminium was more common for that short period.


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## mcshroom (8 Jul 2020)

My Trek 4th District is a 2011 model, so that would fit in with your theory. I think the sliding drop outs may be Stainless rather than aluminium on an otherwise aluminium frame/carbon fork bike.

SS/Fixed bikes are sometimes chosen for "style" as much as substance, so maybe it's the nice thin tubes you get building in steel? Or the retro look?


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## Sharky (8 Jul 2020)

+1 for the 10yr theory. One of mine - a Giant Bowery 72, comes from about 2008/10, and is alu. This was some anniversary model and I think they have discontinued SS models.


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## TheDoctor (9 Jul 2020)

My fixed is Ti, one of the old Raleigh DynaTechs from the mid 90s.
Most bikes had horizontal dropouts then, and that makes chain tensioning easy.


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## rogerzilla (9 Jul 2020)

Ti is hard enough for horizontal ends (road or track).

FWIW, these are the inserts for Dolan alu track bikes: https://www.dolan-bikes.com/pre-cursa-dropout/


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## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2020)

My ali framed / carbon fork summer fixed (I've got an 80's steel one with mudguards for the winter).


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## MichaelW2 (9 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Ti is hard enough for horizontal ends (road or track).
> 
> FWIW, these are the inserts for Dolan alu track bikes: https://www.dolan-bikes.com/pre-cursa-dropout/


Some types of Ti are too hard to get a good bite with some qr skewers so axles slip. Not sure if that was an issue with track nuts.


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## rogerzilla (9 Jul 2020)

Same with chrome.


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## Sharky (9 Jul 2020)

Slightly off topic, but why don't the nicer track framesets come with a front fork drilled for a brake? I would have thought that most track riders at times would have wanted to train/practice away from a velodrome. I know you could swap the forks, but it just seems a poor design feature to limit the frameset to just a track and a hole in the forks can't possibly affect track performance?


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## Ian H (9 Jul 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> Some types of Ti are too hard to get a good bite with some qr skewers so axles slip. Not sure if that was an issue with track nuts.


I had a Ti frame built with horizontal dropouts. I've never pulled the wheel over—track-nuts but no tugs.


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## rogerzilla (9 Jul 2020)

Sharky said:


> Slightly off topic, but why don't the nicer track framesets come with a front fork drilled for a brake? I would have thought that most track riders at times would have wanted to train/practice away from a velodrome. I know you could swap the forks, but it just seems a poor design feature to limit the frameset to just a track and a hole in the forks can't possibly affect track performance?


Maybe it's a BS6102 thing, and they can't be sold as roadworthy for other reasons, like toe overlap? The Holdsworth Roi de Velo looks to have a fair bit of this. It's easy enough to work around toe overlap - my old Harry Quinn track bike has loads - but it can't be sold as a road machine, not these days.


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## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2020)

Sharky said:


> Slightly off topic, but why don't the nicer track framesets come with a front fork drilled for a brake? I would have thought that most track riders at times would have wanted to train/practice away from a velodrome. I know you could swap the forks, but it just seems a poor design feature to limit the frameset to just a track and a hole in the forks can't possibly affect track performance?


I'm sure just about all track riders train on the road as well, on their road bikes.


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## Sharky (9 Jul 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'm sure just about all track riders train on the road as well, on their road bikes.


I'm sure they do now, but I remember seeing riders arrive by bike, with front brake attached and removing it for the meeting, then re-attaching for the ride home. Probably an alien concept now - riding to an event.


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## rogerzilla (9 Jul 2020)

I love a track bike on the road (with a front brake, I'm not that mad). As well as being light and looking minimalist, the round-section fork blades are noticeably stiffer when you have to honk up hills. They can be a bit skippy on bumps due to the short wheelbase, but you get used to it.


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## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2020)

Sharky said:


> I'm sure they do now, but I remember seeing riders arrive by bike, with front brake attached and removing it for the meeting, then re-attaching for the ride home. Probably an alien concept now - riding to an event.


That probably went out with carrying your racing wheels on special brackets.


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## ColinJ (9 Jul 2020)

Sharky said:


> I'm sure they do now, but I remember seeing riders arrive by bike, with front brake attached and removing it for the meeting, then re-attaching for the ride home. Probably an alien concept now - riding to an event.


There used to be a weekend of 3 hillclimb events here. I'm not sure if it was 2 on the Saturday and 1 on the Sunday, or the other way round. Anyway, it was 3 tough events in 2 days... 

A friend of mine went along to watch and got chatting to a lad from Tyneside who had cycled down to the Calder Valley on Friday after work, was doing the 3 hillclimbs, and would then cycle home on Sunday afternoon, and be back at work on Monday! 

By the shortest route it would be about 95 miles each way, but that would involve riding over a lot of Yorkshire hills. A flatter route could be nearer 110 miles.


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## Sharky (9 Jul 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> That probably went out with carrying your racing wheels on special brackets.


I've done that. Everybody used to do it, but in my case, my racing wheels were not much different from my other wheels, so I don't know why I did it. Just following fashion.


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## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2020)

Sharky said:


> I've done that. Everybody used to do it, but in my case, my racing wheels were not much different from my other wheels, so I don't know why I did it. Just following fashion.


Oh but the psychological advantage of fitting your 'racing wheels', marginal gains years before Dave Brailsford thought of it.


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## Sharky (9 Jul 2020)

ColinJ said:


> There used to be a weekend of 3 hillclimb events here. I'm not sure if it was 2 on the Saturday and 1 on the Sunday, or the other way round. Anyway, it was 3 tough events in 2 days...
> 
> A friend of mine went along to watch and got chatting to a lad from Tyneside who had cycled down to the Calder Valley on Friday after work, was doing the 3 hillclimbs, and would then cycle home on Sunday afternoon, and be back at work on Monday!
> 
> By the shortest route it would be about 95 miles each way, but that would involve riding over a lot of Yorkshire hills. A flatter route could be nearer 110 miles.


I rode a 25 once on the O2 course (near Blythe?). Rode from Merseyside the day before, over the "Cat" and stayed at the YHA near the course. Or it might have been a pub - the White something. Did a slow time and rode back.


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## Biff600 (9 Jul 2020)

My *aluminium* Pinarello fixie


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## rogerzilla (9 Jul 2020)

Must have been some prang, to bend the top tube like that!


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## Venod (9 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Must have been some prang, to bend the top tube like that!



It must have been a trying to ride backwards accident, as it has bent the seat stays as well.


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## vickster (9 Jul 2020)

Chris S said:


> Why are fixies and single-speed bikes steel framed? Why does aluminum never seem to be used?


I had an Alu single speed 
The aforementioned Touché


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## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2020)

si_c said:


> I'm finding it hard to find a fault in your reasoning  That being said I am down to only one steel framed bike, the others are Alu.


You need to move to n minus several, have a good shower in a tub of sanitizer, then emerge born again to add to n.


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## 12boy (13 Jul 2020)

My guess is that Al bikes are lighter with less expense in manufacture. As far as dropouts go, I used to have a fixed Cannondale mtn bike, since sold to a friend who still rides it fixed and its dropouts were very thick. He also bought my Fuji Classic which although TIG welded was triple butted and very light. I still miss that bike, although my Surly Steamroller is a lot more versatile.


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## matticus (13 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Must have been some prang, to bend the top tube like that!


I know about photoshop - that pic doesn't fool me!


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## Beespoke (10 Dec 2020)

Nothing wrong with a bit of fixie carbon... My track bike is also aluminium, though my fixie mtb is steel.


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## Andrew1971 (11 Dec 2020)

Drive side on wrong side !!


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## ColinJ (11 Dec 2020)

Andrew1971 said:


> Drive side on wrong side !!


Wouldn't that tend to loosen the lockring as you pedal?


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## Andrew1971 (11 Dec 2020)

If it's a screw on one the yes should unscrew. Hmmm


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Dec 2020)

The industry has geared itself up to produce aluminum for the mass market, and because most is made outside of Europe and where energy is cheaper, if you go for big diameter frame tubes in alloy you get a marginally lighter bike at less cost than you could achieve by hand building in light butted steel.
SS/Fixed bikes have an inherent weight advantage due to having no gear shifters, no derailleur mechs, a shorter chain, no cassette, and only one chainring. That means they can afford to build with a heavier steel frame and it will still end up no heavier than a multi-geared alloy mass market bike but also have a higher mechanical efficiency transmission, which itself is the equivalent of a pound or two weight reduction in terms of power required,. The low end geared market is still steel, and will likely remain so, because ultimately steel is cheaper to build with if you can automate it to the same extent as with aluminium. It just isn't as light, but not all parts of the bike market place the same importance on low weight.
Simplicity, price, mechanical efficiency, low maintenance requirements, and durability are the main criteria applied by riders who buy or build SS bikes.


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## Beespoke (12 Dec 2020)

Andrew1971 said:


> If it's a screw on one the yes should unscrew. Hmmm


What if it's not a screw on? 
🐝


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## Beespoke (12 Dec 2020)

Andrew1971 said:


> Drive side on wrong side !!


It is the wrong side? 
or 
Is it just not what everyone is used too and therefore isn't actually wrong, its just different?

Why does the chain have to be on the right hand side of the bike?

🐝


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## Eric Olthwaite (12 Dec 2020)

Beespoke said:


> Why does the chain have to be on the right hand side of the bike?



Because most people are right handed and their right legs are a bit stronger than their left legs, so this places less stress on the crankset.


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## Beespoke (12 Dec 2020)

Eric Olthwaite said:


> Because most people are right handed and their right legs are a bit stronger than their left legs, so this places less stress on the crankset.



The theory is there, but in practice even your average cyclist very rarely has a power output imbalance of more than 55/45% right to left. 

🐝


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## Jenkins (12 Dec 2020)

Felt manufactured one for the USA track cycling team, but it's a bit more expensive than the normal fixie

https://eu-en.feltbicycles.com/products/ta-frd-trackbike


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## Eric Olthwaite (12 Dec 2020)

Jenkins said:


> Felt manufactured one for the USA track cycling team, but it's a bit more expensive than the normal fixie
> 
> https://eu-en.feltbicycles.com/products/ta-frd-trackbike



For 26,000 Euros you would think they could tension the chain properly


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## raleighnut (12 Dec 2020)

Beespoke said:


> It is the wrong side?
> or
> Is it just not what everyone is used too and therefore isn't actually wrong, its just different?
> 
> ...


The big snag is the pedals, being threaded 'differently' on each side they will try to unscrew.The sprocket will be fine if it has a lockring though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (12 Dec 2020)

Beespoke said:


> Why does the chain have to be on the right hand side of the bike? 🐝



For a similar reason that cars built to be driven in countries with British historical connections are right hand drive.
We were the most dominant influence in bicycle design during the very early days of the industry, and that's why they are the way they are! Millions of imported hi-tensile steel frames are still made today with 25.4 mm seat posts. That's exactly an inch, and it's not a coincidence!


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## Ian H (12 Dec 2020)

raleighnut said:


> The big snag is the pedals, being threaded 'differently' on each side they will try to unscrew.The sprocket will be fine if it has a lockring though.


Pedals are easy enough to sort with some tandem parts.


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## Beespoke (12 Dec 2020)

raleighnut said:


> The big snag is the pedals, being threaded 'differently' on each side they will try to unscrew.The sprocket will be fine if it has a lockring though.


Ridden both on and off road including 24h races running LHD never had a pedal unscrew... utter myth! 🤷‍♂️

🐝


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## Moon bunny (13 Dec 2020)

Beespoke said:


> It is the wrong side?
> or
> Is it just not what everyone is used too and therefore isn't actually wrong, its just different?
> 
> ...


Because (safety) bikes were invented in Britain, where we ride on the left, so a rider mounting a horse would do so from the left, when bikes came along there was no reason to change, so the chain went on the right, away from the riders’ clothes.


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## Hover Fly (16 Dec 2020)

Beespoke said:


> Ridden both on and off road including 24h races running LHD never had a pedal unscrew... utter myth! 🤷‍♂️
> 
> 🐝


Not an utter myth. The likes of BSA, Chater-Lea wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of setting up for LH threads for no reason, no engineer uses LH unless he has too. Perhaps your example of 1 has been lucky, but try again with a loose fitting pedal thread and dodgy rough bearings.
https://www.purecycles.com/blogs/bi...se-threading-precession-and-what-it-all-means


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## Hover Fly (16 Dec 2020)

Moon bunny said:


> Because (safety) bikes were invented in Britain, where we ride on the left, so a rider mounting a horse would do so from the left, when bikes came along there was no reason to change, so the chain went on the right, away from the riders’ clothes.


I’ve seen in museums very early bicycles from RH drive countries with the chain on the left, Opel, Peugeot.


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## Beespoke (17 Dec 2020)

Hover Fly said:


> Not an utter myth. The likes of BSA, Chater-Lea wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of setting up for LH threads for no reason, no engineer uses LH unless he has too. Perhaps your example of 1 has been lucky, but try again with a loose fitting pedal thread and dodgy rough bearings.
> https://www.purecycles.com/blogs/bi...se-threading-precession-and-what-it-all-means



From and engineering point of view, of course its a big no no... however from a real world perspective, on multiple bikes, using different pedal & crank arm combinations, I've not had a loose pedal. 

As for trying it with dodgy rough bearing and a loose pedal fitting... God no, that just goes against the engineer in me 🤣

🐝


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## rogerzilla (19 Jan 2021)

Left hand drive isn't uncommon in BMX, where left-threaded freewheels and hubs are made. This is because some riders like to grind using the pegs on the RH side. The pedals aren't a big problem if you use strong Loctite.

I'm not sure I'd like a LH fixie. It works but it asks a lot of the lockring. I suppose putting the cog on with a big chainwhip (vastly more torque than you can ever apply through the pedals) should mean the lockring never comes into play.


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## Ian H (19 Jan 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I'm not sure I'd like a LH fixie. It works but it asks a lot of the lockring. I suppose putting the cog on with a big chainwhip (vastly more torque than you can ever apply through the pedals) should mean the lockring never comes into play.


Careful! I have stripped a fixed cog on the road.


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## rogerzilla (19 Jan 2021)

Ian H said:


> Careful! I have stripped a fixed cog on the road.


You animal!


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## Beespoke (22 Jan 2021)

Ian H said:


> Careful! I have stripped a fixed cog on the road.


I'd be very impressed if you could strip my fixed sprocket!!


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## Ian H (22 Jan 2021)

Beespoke said:


> I'd be very impressed if you could strip my fixed sprocket!!
> View attachment 570174


To be fair, I think it was a cheap Cyclo sprocket that I stripped (or rather, a poorly machined sprocket that meant I stripped the hub. Had to turn the wheel round to continue on a slightly higher gear.


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## skudupnorth (26 Mar 2021)

Here’s my Boardman Fixie, it’s 10 years old now and still going strong. Alloy frame, carbon forks


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