# castle combe series



## JasonHolder (25 May 2014)

Can anyone whose ridden this, explain to me how this event is run please?


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## SWSteve (25 May 2014)

Did the first one of the season, what can I say to help?


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## JasonHolder (25 May 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Did the first one of the season, what can I say to help?


Whats the set up, laps, groups general advice for racing there and how you found it  cheers

Off topic- I had my car on there in 2012 and this happened lol


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## montage (25 May 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Whats the set up, laps, groups general advice for racing there and how you found it  cheers
> 
> Off topic- I had my car on there in 2012 and this happened lol





General advice would be this:



JasonHolder said:


> Enjoy it.
> Personally, lessons from my first race, crit-
> Concentrate and dont be a hero.
> I blew up on mine and got lapped several times.
> ...


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## JasonHolder (25 May 2014)

montage said:


> General advice would be this:


Good advice is that! Thanks lol
I mean more specific to the combe series


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## SWSteve (25 May 2014)

okay, if you aren't already you'll need to join BC and have a race licence (race membership where you'll have a prov licence). from here, purchase entry to the event via the BC website, if your licence hasn't arrived at this point just take proof of membership with you. The race is 50 mins + 5 laps (I think). There should be a warm up area available at the track, you'll see many riding around the car park but this is 'against the rules' if you have a turbo or rollers take those to use next to your car. 

Having never raced before it took off quickly, and you'll soon experience the higher cat riders catching your group, the [pack will move to one side to let them through, stay with them]. 

it's a C+ cat event, so your prov racing licence would normally mean you have to pay for a day licence, but the kind fellows at andy cook cycling waive that from your first 3 events. 

I'm sorry if that seems quite jumbled, the most important thing I would say is to be ready for a bloody hard ride and try to not get near the back otherwise you'll find yourself getting dropped like I did. 

If you want questions answered from the organiser their details are available via the BC site for you to email


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## JasonHolder (25 May 2014)

Cheers mate


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## samg123 (29 May 2014)

Castle Combe is a fairly big pack, so try not to get intimidated by the numbers. It's fairly easy to find yourself hanging off the back in the first lap and then you'll never be able to make your way back up- the pack can stretch to about 70 metres long when the hammer's down... If you're on the front, you generally won't need to brake for any of the corners, but with the concertina effect it'll involve a lot of sprinting towards the back. Work out where the wind is coming from and try to keep sheltered, although it's not always possible.

Other than that, ride safe! You tend to get a lot of angst and shouting in such a big pack- as long as you don't cross wheels through corners or make any sudden movements you should be fine.


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## JasonHolder (29 May 2014)

Samg123 said:


> Castle Combe is a fairly big pack, so try not to get intimidated by the numbers. It's fairly easy to find yourself hanging off the back in the first lap and then you'll never be able to make your way back up- the pack can stretch to about 70 metres long when the hammer's down... If you're on the front, you generally won't need to brake for any of the corners, but with the concertina effect it'll involve a lot of sprinting towards the back. Work out where the wind is coming from and try to keep sheltered, although it's not always possible.
> 
> Other than that, ride safe! You tend to get a lot of angst and shouting in such a big pack- as long as you don't cross wheels through corners or make any sudden movements you should be fine.


Thanks! What Cat you rode up there?


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## samg123 (29 May 2014)

Rode my first ever race in the 4ths there, found it fairly bewildering to be honest! Did a few more, then earned my third at the Easter Classic they do there, so I know the track fairly well. A couple of my mates were thinking of heading down tonight, but I think they decided on Ilton instead for their first time- huge expanses of tarmac and a lot less technical, so it's maybe a bit easier to get settled.

Let me know if you have any really specific questions...


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## jowwy (29 May 2014)

Ive done a TT on the combe - the wind is a pain in the backside up there thats for sure, especially on the homestraight


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## Monsieur Remings (29 May 2014)

Of the two, Ilton is less scary first time around but depending on wind, can be much faster (and is also more expensive to ride there on the night - £20 Ilton and £12 at Coombe). 

Castle Coombe is much more technical and 4th Cats will be racing alongside 3rd...as others have said, the E,1,2 riders will pass at some point...don't let it distract you. Stay out of wind if you can, resist the temptation to fly away (you'll be caught), make no sudden movements and hold your line. Take any advice that comes your way because you will get told to keep your line as a beginner. There will be loads of you so keep mentally alert and watch coming out of the corners, firstly in the sense you don't want to get sandwiched or nudged off-course and then at the far end prepare to get out of the saddle and accelerate unless you want to be dropped.

Good luck and Ilton is worth a go as others have implied. You'll have a 4th Cat only race there.


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## e-rider (30 May 2014)

I'd be interetsed to know what average speed is achieved over th hour for the 3/4th cat race?


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## Rob3rt (30 May 2014)

e-rider said:


> I'd be interetsed to know what average speed is achieved over th hour for the 3/4th cat race?



That will depend on the dynamic of the race...


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## montage (30 May 2014)

e-rider said:


> I'd be interetsed to know what average speed is achieved over th hour for the 3/4th cat race?



Average speed means very little in crits. Sometimes the pace will be constantly high for a while, sometimes there is a bit of a rest and the average drops, sometimes the crit is more like a series of sprint intervals.

For example, the first 10 miles of a 3/4 race I did a while back was 28 mph, and not really that tough. I jumped in the E12 straight after and the first 10 miles and the average speed was the same, and fatigue from already racing aside, it was monstrously harder as the hits were much bigger and longer as people tried to establish the break.


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## e-rider (30 May 2014)

montage said:


> Average speed means very little in crits. Sometimes the pace will be constantly high for a while, sometimes there is a bit of a rest and the average drops, sometimes the crit is more like a series of sprint intervals.
> 
> For example, the first 10 miles of a 3/4 race I did a while back was 28 mph, and not really that tough. I jumped in the E12 straight after and the first 10 miles and the average speed was the same, and fatigue from already racing aside, it was monstrously harder as the hits were much bigger and longer as people tried to establish the break.


28mph for 10 miles at 4/3rd cat seems a little high to me - that must have been a very fast section. Okay I'll ask again, if anyone has done the 4th cvat race at castle combe, what did your computer say was your average speed at the end of the race?


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## montage (30 May 2014)

e-rider said:


> 28mph for 10 miles at 4/3rd cat seems a little high to me - that must have been a very fast section. Okay I'll ask again, if anyone has done the 4th cvat race at castle combe, what did your computer say was your average speed at the end of the race?



25-26 mph looking at the Strava's of clubmates who race there


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## SWSteve (31 May 2014)

I didn't last the whole race, but the laps I held on for were 24mph average

edit: I've since checked and they were actually closer to 26-27 mph


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## e-rider (31 May 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I didn't last the whole race, but the laps I held on for were 24mph average
> 
> edit: I've since checked and they were actually closer to 26-27 mph


thanks, I guess it's a flat course. Still, that is a good speed for 4th cats and too quick for me! If it was 24mph I'd have considered racing.


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## SWSteve (1 Jun 2014)

Forget the speeds, I'm between 16-17mph average when on the road. and maintained a speed above 20mph for the whole race I believe


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## montage (1 Jun 2014)

e-rider said:


> thanks, I guess it's a flat course. Still, that is a good speed for 4th cats and too quick for me! If it was 24mph I'd have considered racing.



You adapt to the speed pretty quickly - give it a go!
If you get dropped, usually you can wait for them, jump back onto the back - rinse and repeat.
Next week...aim to get dropped a little later in the race, the week after a bit later, then hold on, then top 10, then top 3, then win 
Everyone starts somewhere, usually with being dropped first time.

Get some anaerobic training in to prepare you for the big surges and you'll be good to go (1 minute intervals, 5 min rest is a good place to start)


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## JasonHolder (7 Jun 2014)

Cheers for the insight. Will be riding the next 3 races here at combe as a main workout and to develop some more group riding skills which seem to wash off rather fast. Leading up to my first proper race of the season which promises to be rather hilly


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## SWSteve (8 Jun 2014)

If you can't ride in a group you're putting others in danger


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## JasonHolder (8 Jun 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> If you can't ride in a group you're putting others in danger


Yes and im talking about skills slightly more advanced than you probably even know about.


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## SWSteve (8 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Yes and im talking about skills slightly more advanced than you probably even know about.



Feel free to elaborate on that


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## JasonHolder (8 Jun 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Feel free to elaborate on that


I genuinely would do-but lessons easily learnt, for free are easily forgotten. 

You have to learn the hard way here to be of benefit to you.


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## SWSteve (8 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> I genuinely would do-but lessons easily learnt, for free are easily forgotten.
> 
> You have to learn the hard way here to be of benefit to you.


So regular club rides and having done the Castle Ccombe race before (and will be doing again several times over the summer) doesn't put me in a position to be able to point that out for you?


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## JasonHolder (8 Jun 2014)

ItssteveLovell said:


> So regular club rides and having done the Castle Ccombe race before (and will be doing again several times over the summer) doesn't put me in a position to be able to point that out for you?


No unfortunately it doesn't.


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## JasonHolder (8 Jun 2014)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Feel free to elaborate on that


Original post. Sure. Always happy to

Premier skill would be once you're surrounded mid pack-trying to get out cleanly and sharpishly.

Second most important one is when you stand-you drop back 4-6 inches naturally compared to riders behind. So your wheel is drifting back and is something to be avoided if you want to keep the annoyance down. So working on power before you stand

Then there is naturally drifting when you turn and look behind you. Getting used to echelons or even just pacelines if its been a while and double echelons should you find yourself not in it and need to make another.


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## oldroadman (8 Jun 2014)

As the old adage says, practice makes perfect...not arguing about it (or willy waving as the discussion seems to really be about). Having ridden at a slightly higher standard some years ago, being brought up on a diet of club riding and practice of skills before embarking on some years of bashing over the roads of europe, you gentlemen should simply try to get on and race safely. Then we can all be happy. Just try hard and enjoy, and stay safe. Best of luck, it's meant to be fun at local level!


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## ayceejay (8 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Original post. Sure. Always happy to
> 
> Premier skill would be once you're surrounded mid pack-trying to get out cleanly and sharpishly.
> 
> ...


Holy shamoly there is at least a shovel full there.


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## the_mikey (9 Jun 2014)




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## JasonHolder (12 Jun 2014)

First half of race






Second half of combe race.




Give it a pop @e-rider 
I dropped a lap halfway through. Started getting pretty painful on the outside line. Jumped back on and dropped out @Bell to avoid any issues*


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## e-rider (13 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> First half of race
> View attachment 47602
> 
> 
> ...


well in TTs I can only average 22.5 mph at the moment but I guess being dragged along in the bunch would increase that but I'm not sure I would recover from the increases in speed very well - it looks like the speed goes above 30 mph once per mile (I assume when someone attacks?)


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## JasonHolder (13 Jun 2014)

e-rider said:


> well in TTs I can only average 22.5 mph at the moment but I guess being dragged along in the bunch would increase that but I'm not sure I would recover from the increases in speed very well - it looks like the speed goes above 30 mph once per mile (I assume when someone attacks?)



You'd do fine I think. I led the first lap pretty much@24-25mph which is a lot of power for myself being skinny and a begginner again, and didn't remain sheltered for the first 30minutes of it as I kept getting spat out the side. After I collected my thoughts and focused on ways to make life easier 30+mph middle bunch was much easier to maintain. I'll place next race probably.

That said, sometimes you just have to bite stem and get the fast spurts out the way no matter where you are in the bunch. 

It helps to have your head cut off (huge drag contributor) 



lol


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## montage (13 Jun 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> You'd do fine I think. I led the first lap pretty much@24-25mph which is a lot of power for myself being skinny and a begginner again, and didn't remain sheltered for the first 30minutes of it as I kept getting spat out the side. After I collected my thoughts and focused on ways to make life easier 30+mph middle bunch was much easier to maintain. I'll place next race probably.
> 
> That said, sometimes you just have to bite stem and get the fast spurts out the way no matter where you are in the bunch.
> 
> ...


Tell me more about those premier bunch skills you were talking about earlier


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## JasonHolder (13 Jun 2014)

montage said:


> Tell me more about those premier bunch skills you were talking about earlier


They need working on as i said earlier. And currently not so much about getting out of pack fast but staying in it and not ending up leading an edge pace line.

I'll be changing my training plan to something similar as you described ^ earlier to up the anaerobic endurance or rather just higher repeatable power.


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