# 200miles in a day - Training/nutrition advice needed



## Mushroomgodmat (15 Jan 2013)

200 miles in a day! - the aim is 12 hours.

I cycle around 400 miles a month, I typically cycle 50miles on clubs runs on the weekend, the furthest Iv cycled is 95miles in one (more or less) sitting - I have about 2 months to train, I plan on doing atleast 100 miles each weekend up till then.

I'm not really fit, I find around the 70-80mile make things start to give out - I think overall my body starts to shut down. I think part (maybe all) of the problem is nutrition on rides. 50 miles is a walk in the park for me with a banana and a drink, but as soon as I get to around 70-80 miles i think my body starts to bonk. That said...Iv never actually bonked, but its a feeling of everything (arms, legs mostly) just loosing energy, and loosing energy fast.

So my question is not so much about having the strength to cycle 200miles, but what nutrition plan is a good one on rides like this?

Up till now my standard plan is Porridge (with suger) in the morning, banana every 20-30 miles, and occupationally a cerial/mule bar. And drinks - normally a bit of light orange squash with 1-2 electrolite tablets in the bottle for good measure.


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## black'n'yellow (15 Jan 2013)

200 miles in 12 hours requires an average speed of 16.6mph.. What sort of times are you doing for your 50s or 80s at the moment? And do you plan on riding solo, or in a group?


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## Arsen Gere (15 Jan 2013)

If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.


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## Mushroomgodmat (15 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> 200 miles in 12 hours requires an average speed of 16.6mph.. What sort of times are you doing for your 50s or 80s at the moment? And do you plan on riding solo, or in a group?


yeah, thats the daunting part (one of many) Iv cycled 50 miles in a group at an average speed of 18mph, but over 200 miles it becomes a very different proposal! But yes, it would be a group of about 20 cyclists. And although the plan is 12 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if it became 14-15ish hours.



Arsen Gere said:


> If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.


 
this is where my know how fails me...the machanics of nutrition/pacing myself if what im worried about.


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## Arsen Gere (15 Jan 2013)

Mushroomgodmat said:


> this is where my know how fails me...the machanics of nutrition/pacing myself if what im worried about.


It's not that complicated really. It is about getting out there and building the miles. You will get used to 70-80 and then 90-100 feels tough, once you conquer that you're off to 120. If you can do 120+ getting to 200 is just about time in the saddle really.
During that process you can test different foods that work for you. An easyish 100 I just eat jam and bread and bananas with a weak carb based drink and isotonic (high 5 zero's ) in it. When it comes to racing that kind of distance I use a single bottle with gels in it and some kind of high carb bar, then a water/electrolyte drink separate. The trick is not to consume too much carbs in one go other wise you feel sick. You need to get your stomach to empty and water with a salt or electrolyte additive will help. If you feel like your stomach is sloshing around it is probably trying to get the consistency right before it empties to the small intestines. If you add more carbs it gets worse, water/electrolyte will help it empty. Juding this is best done on the road. Working on 60-90g/hour of mixed carbs is about right. In training though I try to work with very few carbs. This promotes the use of body fats. Before races 'A' races I try to bonk a couple of weeks before the race. The most I do in training is about 130-140 miles and I do that on normal foods. No commercial gels etc.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.


 
I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.


From my understanding of it, Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat - which ties them up and means that there will be less to consume (which then means that you are entirely dependent on the glycogen in your liver)

Fructose as part of the diet was only available in the autumn, and the body evolved to lay down fat at that time to get them through the lean winter months.

I've cut all fructose and wheat products out of my diet, and substituted for spuds and oats (slow release as well as green veg) and my sugar control is much better for it now.


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## Arsen Gere (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.
> ... .


 
Fructose by-passes the insulin response system. But like most things in moderation it does no harm, ie eat fruit, drink fruit juice. When doing any kind of extreme sport it's going to get used fairly quickly and won't have a long term effect. If it is consumed after exercise it looks like it delays clearing out lacates.

In your case cutting it out may be appropriate. But there is no way you'd get me carrying a sack of tatties on a bike ride


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

Arsen Gere said:


> Fructose by-passes the insulin response system. But like most things in moderation it does no harm, ie eat fruit, drink fruit juice. When doing any kind of extreme sport it's going to get used fairly quickly and won't have a long term effect. If it is consumed after exercise it looks like it delays clearing out lacates.
> 
> In your case cutting it out may be appropriate. But there is no way you'd get me carrying a sack of tatties on a bike ride


 
They might slow you down


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## lulubel (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> Fructose as part of the diet was only available in the autumn, and the body evolved to lay down fat at that time to get them through the lean winter months.


 
Why was fructose only available in the autumn?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.
> 
> 
> From my understanding of it, Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat - which ties them up and means that there will be less to consume (which then means that you are entirely dependent on the glycogen in your liver)
> ...


It's very hard to take anything he says as gospel when http://products.mercola.com/

Is full of supplements you can pay him for


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Why was fructose only available in the autumn?


 
In its natural state, it is by and large when the fruit ripens


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It's very hard to take anything he says as gospel when http://products.mercola.com/
> 
> Is full of supplements you can pay him for


 
The core advice is sound whatever else he is hawking.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> The core advice is sound whatever else he is hawking.


It's really not.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It's really not.


 
I read it as swap out high GI foods, and substitute for low GI foods. What you lose in eating fruit, you can make up for in green veg. 
My blood sugars have been running between 12 to 15 for the last month and have been hungry all the time with false hypo's, High sugars are causing other health issues as well, but since swapping over and following his guide and they are running below 10, and not hungry at all and have got plenty of energy which is where they should be.

What's not to like about that ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> I read it as swap out high GI foods, and substitute for low GI foods. What you lose in eating fruit, you can make up for in green veg.
> My blood sugars have been running between 12 to 15 for the last month and have been hungry all the time with false hypo's, High sugars are causing other health issues as well, but since swapping over and following his guide and they are running below 10, and not hungry at all and have got plenty of energy which is where they should be.
> 
> What's not to like about that ?


Great. Anecdote


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Great. Anecdote


 
No, I'm blood sugar testing before food and before bed (4 times a day) so it is more than an anecdote. The meter doesn't lie.

My T1 friend who has been struggling with control and is on an insulin pump switched his eating habits to suit the dietary advice, and he lost just under a stone in 4 weeks and also improved his control significantly.

What makes you so sceptical of the advice given ?


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## lulubel (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> In its natural state, it is by and large when the fruit ripens


 
Depends on where your ancestors evolved, I guess. Here (and presumably everywhere else with a similar climate) most of the sweet fruit is over by the middle of July.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Depends on where your ancestors evolved, I guess. Here (and presumably everywhere else with a similar climate) most of the sweet fruit is over by the middle of July.


 
That is followed by a cold season where little grows, and animals migrate or hibernate though.
Animals grow winter and summer coats because of the changes in the length of the daylight hours, so it is not a big stretch in my mind to see other environmental factors affecting body changes.

Modern supply chains have messed with seasonal variation of foodstuffs available so I see merit in the assertions put in relation to fructose, leptin and obesity (or putting weight on more easily in the presence of)


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## lulubel (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> That is followed by a cold season where little grows, and animals migrate or hibernate though.


 
It isn't. That was my point. July marks the beginning of the hottest part of the year. Very little grows here in July and August because the climate is too hot and dry. There are two main growing seasons for fruit and veg. One is from around February to June, and the other is September to November.

There isn't a "laying down fat" season as such because southern Europe doesn't have a long period through the winter when nothing ripens. Going further south, my parents live in the Canary Islands, and my mother has fresh fruit and veg ripening all year round, with nothing forced and nothing grown under plastic.

To say that humans, as a species, have evolved to store fat through the winter, is too simplistic, and based on a fairly narrow climatic zone.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> No, I'm blood sugar testing before food and before bed (4 times a day) so it is more than an anecdote. The meter doesn't lie.
> 
> My T1 friend who has been struggling with control and is on an insulin pump switched his eating habits to suit the dietary advice, and he lost just under a stone in 4 weeks and also improved his control significantly.
> 
> What makes you so sceptical of the advice given ?


Absolutely everything.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Absolutely everything.


 
Elaborate please


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> Elaborate please


You really have to ask? Take another good look at his site and articles.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> It isn't. That was my point. July marks the beginning of the hottest part of the year. Very little grows here in July and August because the climate is too hot and dry. There are two main growing seasons for fruit and veg. One is from around February to June, and the other is September to November.
> 
> There isn't a "laying down fat" season as such because southern Europe doesn't have a long period through the winter when nothing ripens. Going further south, my parents live in the Canary Islands, and my mother has fresh fruit and veg ripening all year round, with nothing forced and nothing grown under plastic.
> 
> To say that humans, as a species, have evolved to store fat through the winter, is too simplistic, and based on a fairly narrow climatic zone.


 
Leptin resistance has been linked to intake of fructose though. Fructose consumption induces resistance to it, and that makes people hungry.

It has been found that mutant rats in a lab which aren't making their own leptin become grossly obese and have insatiable hunger, but return to normal size when given leptin jabs.

http://www.sageresearchmodels.com/research-models/knockout-rats/leptin-knockout-rat-—-kilorat™

Some other articles about it below. American of course, but obesity is rife over there, so they take a close interest in the issue.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081016074701.htm

http://www.livestrong.com/article/477642-fructose-leptin/


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You really have to ask? Take another good look at his site and articles.


 
read my last post


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## lulubel (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> Leptin resistance has been linked to intake of fructose though. Fructose consumption induces resistance to it, and that makes people hungry.
> 
> It has been found that mutant rats in a lab which aren't making their own leptin become grossly obese and have insatiable hunger, but return to normal size when given leptin jabs.
> 
> ...


 
Research based on animal tests proves nothing except the effect the test had on that species of animal. Humans and rats are too biologically different for the results to translate, despite what the organisations who perform tests on animals (because it's cheaper than testing on human volunteers) will claim.

To be honest, I find any research that argues that a species that evolved from the same genetic stock as primates shouldn't eat a lot of fruit is laughable. I studied statistics as part of my degree, and I know they can be made to show anything you want them to show. Since there is a lot of money in the food industry, there's a huge incentive to design studies in such a way as to get the results you want.

I do agree that the large amount of high fructose corn syrup in American fast food is a problem, however. It's typically added to high calorie food that's also high in saturated fat, with the intention of triggering a "sugar high" that keeps the customer coming back for more. Add to that the sedentary culture in the US, and it's no wonder there's an obesity epidemic.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Research based on animal tests proves nothing except the effect the test had on that species of animal. Humans and rats are too biologically different for the results to translate, despite what the organisations who perform tests on animals (because it's cheaper than testing on human volunteers) will claim.
> 
> To be honest, I find any research that argues that a species that evolved from the same genetic stock as primates shouldn't eat a lot of fruit is laughable. I studied statistics as part of my degree, and I know they can be made to show anything you want them to show. Since there is a lot of money in the food industry, there's a huge incentive to design studies in such a way as to get the results you want.
> 
> I do agree that the large amount of high fructose corn syrup in American fast food is a problem, however. It's typically added to high calorie food that's also high in saturated fat, with the intention of triggering a "sugar high" that keeps the customer coming back for more. Add to that the sedentary culture in the US, and it's no wonder there's an obesity epidemic.


Linford. You should read this post over a few times, perhaps over a few days.

And then provide an actual study that says fructose is _the problem _and not a part of the overall picture. The same study in some way should take into account over-eating, sedentry lifestyle and the generally Supersized portions of the Americans they study.

Is the apple I'm about to eat by itself going to make me obese overnight? I THINK NOT


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Linford. You should read this post over a few times, perhaps over a few days.
> 
> And then provide an actual study that says fructose is _the problem _and not a part of the overall picture. The same study in some way should take into account over-eating, sedentry lifestyle and the generally Supersized portions of the Americans they study.
> 
> Is the apple I'm about to eat by itself going to make me obese overnight? I THINK NOT


 
Apples don't satiate hunger, if anything, they increase it.

Have you got anything of your own to add to this or are you just proficient at riding on the coat tails of others ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> Apples don't satiate hunger, if anything, they increase it.
> 
> Have you got anything of your own to add to this or are you just proficient at riding on the coat tails of others ?


Could you point out where I suggested apples provided satiety please.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Could you point out where I suggested apples provided satiety please.


 
You are getting confused.

I was the one who said that apples don't satiate hunger, (in my opinion), if anything, they increase it.
There are plenty of testimonials on the net of people stating the same thing if in doubt of my anecdote.


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## Linford (15 Jan 2013)

lulubel said:


> Research based on animal tests proves nothing except the effect the test had on that species of animal. Humans and rats are too biologically different for the results to translate, despite what the organisations who perform tests on animals (because it's cheaper than testing on human volunteers) will claim.
> 
> To be honest, I find any research that argues that a species that evolved from the same genetic stock as primates shouldn't eat a lot of fruit is laughable. I studied statistics as part of my degree, and I know they can be made to show anything you want them to show. Since there is a lot of money in the food industry, there's a huge incentive to design studies in such a way as to get the results you want.
> 
> I do agree that the large amount of high fructose corn syrup in American fast food is a problem, however. It's typically added to high calorie food that's also high in saturated fat, with the intention of triggering a "sugar high" that keeps the customer coming back for more. Add to that the sedentary culture in the US, and it's no wonder there's an obesity epidemic.


 

The hormone leptin has the same effect on appetite in humans as it does in rats though. That is why they are specifically breeding these mutant lab rats. They are perfect test subjects as they do not produce any leptin of their own, and so there is 100% control in the test.

I'm happy to bow to your greater knowledge, but to dismiss it out of hand is a bit less than I expected of you  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> You are getting confused.
> 
> I was the one who said that apples don't satiate hunger, (in my opinion), if anything, they increase it.
> There are plenty of testimonials on the net of people stating the same thing if in doubt of my anecdote.


You are doing nothing but cherry picking points in desperation. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

You could also re-read the post you responded to



T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Linford. You should read this post over a few times, perhaps over a few days.
> 
> *And then provide an actual study that says fructose is the problem and not a part of the overall picture. The same study in some way should take into account over-eating, sedentry lifestyle and the generally Supersized portions of the Americans they study.*
> 
> Is the apple I'm about to eat by itself going to make me obese overnight? I THINK NOT


 
With this.



Linford said:


> Apples don't satiate hunger, if anything, they increase it.
> 
> Have you got anything of your own to add to this or are you just proficient at riding on the coat tails of others ?


 
So to make this clear. I have asked you directly, to provide link to an actual *study *that confirms everything you have said about fructose.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You are doing nothing but cherry picking points in desperation. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
> 
> You could also re-read the post you responded to
> 
> ...


 

The link is in the articles and the wiki if you looked. Fructose causes leptin resiistance. This is already acknowledged. Leptin controls apetite and how we lay down fat, so any resistance to it will increase all the issues related to this.
It is young science, they only isolated it in humans in 1994 so any research is going to be from the labs where total contol of diet is possible

It doesn't take a genius to see that too much of one will lead to too much of another.

I'm happy to be wrong if you can prove with a study that is not the case.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jan 2013)

As you are making claims,the burden of proof is entirely on you. Please provide link to actual studie/s.


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2013)

You provide studies.......

No, you provide studies......

The onus is on you to provide studies, so come on then, lets have them.......

I will only speak to you when you provide studies......

Read my last post........

I'll read it when you provide studies.........


FFS STFU WILL YOU! This section is turning to a landfill!


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## black'n'yellow (16 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> You provide studies.......
> 
> No, you provide studies......
> 
> ...


 
that's kind of a valid point - but it does beg the question: when you have a disagreement like this, how else are you going to resolve it without recourse to published science..?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jan 2013)

Yeeh the no science "my mate told me" approach of old was much better


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> As you are making claims,the burden of proof is entirely on you. Please provide link to actual studie/s.


 
http://kickincarbclutter.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/fructose-induced-leptin-resistance.html


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/295/5/R1370.full


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yeeh the all science "my mate told" me approach of old was much better


 
It was much less monotonous that's for sure!



black'n'yellow said:


> that's kind of a valid point - but it does beg the question: when you have a disagreement like this, how else are you going to resolve it without recourse to published science..?


 
Not all disagreements need to be resolved.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> You provide studies.......
> 
> No, you provide studies......
> 
> ...


 
I'm still trying to figure out what his point is


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## ianrauk (16 Jan 2013)

Right, cut out the bad language. If you can't reply in a sensible way then don't reply at all. 
This thread is heading for locking if it continues.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/6/2963.short


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## black'n'yellow (16 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Not all disagreements need to be resolved.


 
on the internet, they do.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

ianrauk said:


> Right, cut out the bad language. If you can't reply in a sensible way then don't reply at all.
> This thread is heading for locking if it continues.


 
I hadn't started it boss 

Links to the research as he demanded are appearing. 

I'm not an endocinologist, just a casual observer with more than passing interest.

I'm not holding my breath for an apology though. I found his attitude given the subject matter to be unneccessarily aggressive


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## fossyant (16 Jan 2013)

Is anyone actually going to give the OP some advice ??

Never done a 200 myself, but can easily knock out 120 miles in 6 and a half hours (and only on commuting training). Key is to eat and drink regularly - every 10 miles. I'd build in a couple of brief rests where you can eat something propper though. For me a mix of fruit, malt loaf, cerial bars, then energy drinks.

You are going to need to get in a few rides of 8-9 hours though (130 miles) before hand - you need to get the body used to doing that extra miles.

You'll need the group to stick together if you are planning to 'stay together' - you'll also need plans if a number are flagging - i.e. good communication - get the stronger riders up front.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> As you are making claims,the burden of proof is entirely on you. Please provide link to actual studie/s.


 
You have the study's now for both lab rat and humans. I await your response with eager anticipation.
do you refute the findings, and if so why ?


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## e-rider (16 Jan 2013)

200 miles will be tough. I've done countless 100s but from 100-120 my body falls apart (and usually not my legs). Back, neck, shoulders, arms all begin to suffer. Of course, at some point the legs will go too. Good luck.

As a side note, my training rides never exceed 75 miles which probably explains why I get problems at 110 miles! If you want to do 200 miles then train up to 140 at least.


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2013)

I managed 150 mile with an average over 17 mph and could have carried on, this was on the back of only ever exceeding 100 mile once, it wasn't even that difficult tbh. Yeah my back and shoulders ached a bit, but not too bad, I certainly wasn't the mess those old audaxers hinted I would be! I think if you just get out and make sure you are putting in consistent mileage you will be fine. If you suffer a bit toward the end, well so be it, that is part of the challenge, you only need to finish, it's not a race so don't over think it. Keep eating and drinking and just keep those pedals turning.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> http://kickincarbclutter.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/fructose-induced-leptin-resistance.html


Where to start with this one?

Study took place on rats which we are not.
Study was based on 60.4% fructose diet - If the study happened to be on a human, would it still be 60.4%?



> The study is significant because it shows Leptin Resistance to be at the heart of the current Obesity Epidemic, *possibly* *driven by a high fructose intake then coupled with an excess intake of calories/fat*, and that Insulin Resistance does not cause obesity.


A possibility eh. You and they appear to have forgot that rats eating fat which has 9cals per gram were eating more and then eating more calories per gram. (4 per g carbohydrate/ 9 per g fat) Little wonder they put on weight, it's almost as if the study was designed to give that result.

So is eating fruit still the cause of all obesity Linford? There are no other factors than fruit/fructose and leptin? Nobody ever eats too much, it's all down to fruit?





Linford said:


> http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/6/2963.short


 


> Because insulin and leptin, and possibly ghrelin, function as key signals to the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy balance, decreases of circulating insulin and leptin and increased ghrelin concentrations, as demonstrated in this study,* could lead to increased caloric intake* and ultimately *contribute to weight gain and obesity during chronic consumption of diets high in fructose*.


 


> chron·ic [kron-ik] Show IPA
> adjective
> 1.
> *constant*; habitual; inveterate: a chronic liar.
> ...


 
Oh so you _*could*_ eat more and gain weight?



and then have a quick look at the post you quoted originally


> You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.


 
The OP is discussing riding 200miles. When the chances are great,that on a 1day 200mile ride, his body will be as good as depleted, at what point will obesity creep up on him? He's not exactly drinking gallons or eating tonnes of the stuff in front of the tv is he?


Like I said last night, I was eating an apple. Lovely it was too. I'm not obese this morning.

ps: Neither of your studies show weight gain in humans.


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## Linford (16 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Where to start with this one?
> 
> Study took place on rats which we are not.
> Study was based on 60.4% fructose diet - If the study happened to be on a human, would it still be 60.4%?
> ...


 
You look but you don't see...I hope you don't do this sort of thing for a living.

What the study's show is that Leptin resistance increases appetite, and leptin resistance is caused by consuming fructose.....or in other words if you have a high fructose diet, then you will struggle to satiate your appetite.

You asked me to supply the studies, and I have done that. I've established a link between the two in this thread and all you are doing is trying to save face with bluff and bluster.

If you disagree with the findings, then you ought to do a study of you own to disprove them.

In the mean time, you bring nothing more of value to the table so you ought to just leave it at that!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jan 2013)

Linford said:


> What the study's show is that Leptin resistance increases appetite, and leptin resistance is caused by consuming fructose.....or in other words if you have a high fructose diet, then you will struggle to satiate your appetite.


And who has a high fructose diet to the tune of 60.4%? The type of sugar is pretty irrelevant actually, any form of over-eating (ie:blood sugar induced snacking) is going to end up on your waistline, and all but the lowest GI foodstuffs do it eventually.

Don't you recognize your own admission that you now consume oats and potatoes (ps: sweet potato is generally lower GI.) which would dramatically alter your blood sugar levels? Ironically the average GI of an apple is as good as half that of a potato,but in a balanced diet, you aren't going to triple in size overnight by eating one.



> You asked me to supply the studies, and I have done that. I've established a link between the two in this thread and all you are doing is trying to save face with bluff and bluster.


Yes you did. Neither of them showed anything that backed up your original point which was.



> Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat


"fruit makes you fat"



> In the mean time, you bring nothing more of value to the table so you ought to just leave it at that!


Your own contributions haven't exactly been worthy of award or applause. Perhaps you should read the thread in the context it began,which was a guy planning a 200mile/1day ride and being advised to mix up his carb sources during.

Do you really think that multi-source carbs on a long ride will lead to the OP returning obese/at the very least be in any way detrimental?


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## Shaun (17 Jan 2013)

For clarity - I've suspended two members access to this thread for 3 days for continuing an argument that offered nothing of value to the OP.

Point scoring, demanding "evidence", rubbishing "evidence", and generally posting tit-for-tat engagements to prove one's rightness outside of the main topic of discussion (or advice sought) derails the thread and overshadows useful replies.

If you believe that information or advice someone has posted is incorrect or needs further (or evidenced) clarification then please feel free to say so - but don't repeatedly and continually pick at the responses to the detriment of everyone else in the thread; take it to PM for further clarification if it's _that_ important to you - otherwise credit readers with the ability to work out things for themselves and take whatever advice they feel is most useful to _them_!

Thanks,
Shaun


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## MickeyBlueEyes (23 Jan 2013)

Having done a 227 miler last year one of the main things I think you need to think of is the mind games. Nutrition was fine, I had done 1500 miles training but never more than 80 in one day, but what it came down to was the little "this is hard" "no it isn't" conversations I had with myself en route.


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## Ningishzidda (27 Jan 2013)

There's another chap on another thread who want's to ride the C2C ( 150 miles ) in 10 hours inc stops.
My advice to him was to build his FTP to minimum 275 to stand a chance of completing. The training involved in this task alone will be enough to see him across the country in ten hours.

For endurance exercise, it is fundamentally essential to improve ones VO2 uptake. Once you increase this, your FTP will rise. When exercising at a lesser Wattage, a smaller percentage of your VO2 uptake max is required if your VO2 max is enormous, and hence the type of energy system you will be using.
For a frail cyclist with a 180 FTP, consistently exercising at 120 Watts will be a bigger chore than if his FTP was 240. The frail cyclist will enter Lactic more often than the more powerful cyclist, and the more powerful cyclist will be using lipolysis more often than glycolysis.

To the OP on this thread, my advice is similar. 
In addition, don't forget the muscles that hold your head up when you are in the cycling position. HOURS, not miles will sort this.
Don't forget to replenish lost salts.


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## Ningishzidda (27 Jan 2013)

MickeyBlueEyes said:


> Having done a 227 miler last year one of the main things I think you need to think of is the mind games. Nutrition was fine, I had done 1500 miles training but never more than 80 in one day, but what it came down to was the little "this is hard" "no it isn't" conversations I had with myself en route.


 
I invent an imaginary cyclist and explain to her WHY I'm doing such a stupid thing.


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## black'n'yellow (27 Jan 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> In addition, don't forget the muscles that hold your head up when you are in the cycling position. .


 
would these be the same ones that hold your head up when you're _not_ in a cycling position..?


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## Ningishzidda (27 Jan 2013)

Ask a physiotherapist.

Another anecdote. "It is easier for a 25 minute ten mile timetrialist to do a 300 km Randonnee than a 300 km Randonneur to do a 25 minute 10 mile time trial."


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## black'n'yellow (27 Jan 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Ask a physiotherapist.


 
no need 



Ningishzidda said:


> Another anecdote. "It is easier for a 25 minute ten mile timetrialist to do a 300 km Randonnee than a 300 km Randonneur to do a 25 minute 10 mile time trial."


 
slightly misleading - to the point where it pretty much fails as a useful anecdote. Assuming it was meant to be useful...


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## Ningishzidda (27 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> no need
> 
> 
> 
> slightly misleading - to the point where it pretty much fails as a useful anecdote. Assuming it was meant to be useful...


 
I don't wish to be suspended, but if you want to argue the meaning of the word 'anecdote', be my guest.
Maybe I should have started the post "A fable" or "Something to consider which may or may not be true."


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## black'n'yellow (27 Jan 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> I don't wish to be suspended, but if you want to argue the meaning of the word 'anecdote', be my guest.


 
don't worry - there are no rules on here about posting inaccurate info. Unfortunately, there do seem to be a few ad-hoc rules which prevent me arguing against it...so I'll leave it


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## Shaun (27 Jan 2013)

It seems people simply can't help themselves, so I'll do it for you. Thread closed.

There's enough advice to give Mushroomgodmat a starting point for getting fitter and building up the miles/hours.


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