# Can you lose your toes?



## Matthew_T (11 Mar 2013)

Whenever it gets bitterly cold such as today, my toes get very painful and numb. It happens pretty much immediately when I go outside and remains painful for my whole ride. When I get home, it normally takes about half an hour to get full feeling back.
I always wear thick walking socks and often have my overshoes on in this weather. However, it doesnt seem to make a difference.

I am getting a little concerned that this constant freezing temp and then sudden burst of warmth when I get home is doing damage to my toes.
Has anyone had any experience of problems with their toes due to the cold?


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## Radchenister (11 Mar 2013)

Only one thing for it ... I'm thinking ... dare I say it (?) ... ah go on then ... Sir Ranulph > Screwfix > Junior Hacksaw!


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## gaz (11 Mar 2013)

Buy thicker overshoes, what ones are you currently using?

It's best to not to wear too thick a sock, you want enough space in your shoe to still be able to wiggle your toes, that will help circulate the blood.


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## The Brewer (11 Mar 2013)

Plastic bags can help Matt. 

For me in this weather its normal sports sock, freezer bag and overshoes......nearly warm weather time


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## coffeejo (11 Mar 2013)

After trying all sorts of combinations of layers, thermal socks, etc , I ended up getting Heat Holders which have made an incredible difference when combined with my overshoes. The ones I've got are bulky, but my shoes have enough room.


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## Hip Priest (11 Mar 2013)

I lost my toes once. 

They're always in the last place you look!


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (11 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Whenever it gets bitterly cold such as today, my toes get very painful and numb. It happens pretty much immediately when I go outside and remains painful for my whole ride. When I get home, it normally takes about half an hour to get full feeling back.
> I always wear thick walking socks and often have my overshoes on in this weather. However, it doesnt seem to make a difference.
> 
> I am getting a little concerned that this constant freezing temp and then sudden burst of warmth when I get home is doing damage to my toes.
> Has anyone had any experience of problems with their toes due to the cold?


you only need to worry if they are painful and then stop hurting you. the pain is actually a good sign - you can still feel them, they are not frozen. if they stop hurting part way through your ride unless something has happened such as amazing sunshine and a +10C increase in temp, then you need to stop and get feeling back (it will hurt like hell). if you can still feel them (pain) then no you are not likely to loose them. it takes pretty severe frost bite to loose them and they will have been numb for a long time before that happens (before they turn black and drop off)

as above, don't wrap your feet too tight - counterintuative. you need to allow air in your shoes & socks to act as insulation and not overly compress the feet to allow good blood supply.


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## deptfordmarmoset (11 Mar 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I lost my toes once.
> 
> They're always in the last place you look!


You should know that they're on the end of your potatoes.

Anyhow, +1 for heat holders. I'm wearing a pair right now.


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## coffeejo (11 Mar 2013)

[QUOTE 2356370, member: 259"]I would try this, but my shoes wouldn't accomodate anything very bulky. [/quote]
I thought ahead when I bought the shoes - done up tight for normal socks, nice and loose for winter.


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## ayceejay (11 Mar 2013)

In all probability this is caused by the lack of blood flow. Tight shoes and socks can cause this but this is not the only possibility.


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## BimblingBee (11 Mar 2013)

Keeping the wind out and allowing room for good circulation and the build up of heat within the shoe helps. I use some winter specific shoes which are good too. I've also got some goretex socks which I wear over thicker socks which I find helps on mtb. Also wearing road shoes helps due to the insulating nature of plastic cleat compared to metal cleats on mtb shoes.

Another point to consider is insulating the blood going into the feet ie thicker tights. It will make it harder due to restrictive nature of them but it works!


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## summerdays (11 Mar 2013)

I have problems with my fingers and circulation. By the end of winter I usually seem to have some semi-permanent numbness on the side of one finger. It seems to come back over the summer only to loose it again the next year. I'm assuming this isn't gong to be good in the long term so I would say yes you can probably do some permanent damage over time - probably to a nerve.


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## Matthew_T (11 Mar 2013)

ayceejay said:


> In all probability this is caused by the lack of blood flow. Tight shoes and socks can cause this but this is not the only possibility.


Whenever I have my thick socks on, I always make sure that the shoes arent too tight. I have had blisters on the outside of my feet in the past where the shoe has been rubbing so I now ensure that they are not too tight.


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## MickeyBlueEyes (11 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Has anyone had any experience of problems with their toes due to the cold?


 
Never, my toes have always been snug in cold weather with a pair of thin socks, then walking socks, then ski socks. This topped off with a set of neroprene overs and they are good to go in pretty much any level of cold temps.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (11 Mar 2013)

MickeyBlueEyes said:


> Never, my toes have always been snug in cold weather with a pair of thin socks, then walking socks, then ski socks. This topped off with a set of neroprene overs and they are good to go in pretty much any level of cold temps.


sheshhh. I cycle in all weathers in just 1 set of merino wool socks and soft leather (waterproof) hiking boots and have never had cold feet - think out in -15C. (hands were a different matter though, but now sorted due to buying a size bigger in gloves)


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## Tony E (11 Mar 2013)

Sorry to ask but do you smoke or drink alcohol? Both have a massive effect on circulation?


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## jonny jeez (11 Mar 2013)

Tony E said:


> Sorry to ask but do you smoke or drink alcohol? Both have a massive effect on circulation?


I was about to ask the same thing, also matt, do your hands also get cold quickly in every day stuff not just riding?

You mention your toes go numb almost immediately, is this only when you wear your bike shoes/gear or does this effect you all the time?


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## fossyant (11 Mar 2013)

Are the oversees water and wind proof. Plastic bags also work to shield from wind


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## Matthew_T (11 Mar 2013)

Tony E said:


> Sorry to ask but do you smoke or drink alcohol? Both have a massive effect on circulation?


No. Never smoke and rarely drink.


fossyant said:


> Are the oversees water and wind proof. Plastic bags also work to shield from wind


Yes they are windproof and water proof. They are Aldi overshoes and not the best in the world but they help a little.


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## snorri (11 Mar 2013)

Perhaps you need to do more regular walking to improve blood circulation in your feet, I use to suffer from cold feet at night if I had done little walking the previous day.
A bigger pair of shoes which will allow you to wear thicker socks in cold weather could also help.


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## fossyant (11 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> No. Never smoke and rarely drink.
> 
> Yes they are windproof and water proof. They are Aldi overshoes and not the best in the world but they help a little.



The Aldi ones aren't warm enough for this weather. I have some. Get some BBB Hardwear Aquashield ones. The Aldi ones aren't waterproof, they are just a thin wind proof fabric. You need PU coated neoprene.


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## vernon (12 Mar 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I lost my toes once.


 
It would be miraculous if you lost them twice.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Mar 2013)

vernon said:


> It would be miraculous if you lost them twice.


Once on each foot?


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## Steve H (12 Mar 2013)

I used to suffer cold feet. Overshoes were ok, but after a while the cold still got through. 

They can be expensive, but in my opinion, the best way to solve this is with a really good pair of winter cycling boots. 

I bought the Northwave Celsius winter boots. They are fantastic. Going to cost you upwards of £130, but if you can afford them they are well worth it


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## Ningishzidda (12 Mar 2013)

Go to the Poundshop and buy a Thinsulate lined beanie hat. Cut the Thinsulate out and use it to wrap round your toes before you put your socks on.

Another trick is to have your winter shoes one size larger.


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2013)

vernon said:


> It would be miraculous if you lost them twice.


 
He could have put a bit of weight on, might not be able to see them


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2013)

Matthew, please also don't rule out the issue about your custom insoles you have for everyday shoes - we did advise seeing the podiatrist again and take your cycling shoes with you. It's well worth a visit and shouldn't cost you as you are a student.


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## GrasB (12 Mar 2013)

Just a thought but are you keeping your lower legs warm enough, especially around the ankles. If your blood gets cold then keeping your feet warm is never going to happen. Even a small drop is blood temp is enough to cause problems. For this reason I find that thermal compression calf guards are essential at very lot temps.


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## ianrauk (12 Mar 2013)

Steve H said:


> I used to suffer cold feet. Overshoes were ok, but after a while the cold still got through.
> 
> They can be expensive, but in my opinion, the best way to solve this is with a really good pair of winter cycling boots.
> 
> I bought the Northwave Celsius winter boots. They are fantastic. Going to cost you upwards of £130, but if you can afford them they are well worth it


 

Agreed.
My Specialized Defroster Winter boots were worth every penny.
Even with a -7 wind chill this morning, my toes were toast warm, even with just one pair of normal socks.


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## jdtate101 (12 Mar 2013)

Go charge up some big hills. Get that blood pumping and you'll soon get warm.


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## shouldbeinbed (12 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Whenever it gets bitterly cold such as today, my toes get very painful and numb. It happens pretty much immediately when I go outside and remains painful for my whole ride. When I get home, it normally takes about half an hour to get full feeling back.
> I always wear thick walking socks and often have my overshoes on in this weather. However, it doesnt seem to make a difference.
> 
> I am getting a little concerned that this constant freezing temp and then sudden burst of warmth when I get home is doing damage to my toes.
> Has anyone had any experience of problems with their toes due to the cold?


 
I have similar with my hands, full finger gloves even in summer, multi layers in winter, silk liners, latex boil in the bag and thick windproof thinsulates but my fingertips are still too painful & numb to get changed into a shirt for 10 mins or so when I get to work in sub zero temps. The tips feel like they're stuffed with popping candy as they warm up. My GP isn't worried, as I have a bit of poor circulation to my arms anyway, as long as I'm sensible and don't plonk them in hot water as a quick fix immediately upon arrival (did that once & nearly yelled the windows out)

It might be prudent to nip to the GP and ask about e.g. Reynauds if they discolour as well as getting wildly cold to be sure you're just a soft jessie like me  and not medically suffering


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## Crankarm (12 Mar 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I lost my toes once.
> 
> They're always in the last place you look!


 
I'm always losing my hands but end up finding them at the ends of my armies.


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## wanda2010 (12 Mar 2013)

Heated gloves/insoles or heat pouches. I have Raynaud's. Makes winter cycling/running 'challenging'


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## PK99 (12 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Whenever it gets bitterly cold such as today, my toes get very painful and numb. It happens pretty much immediately when I go outside and remains painful for my whole ride. When I get home, it normally takes about half an hour to get full feeling back.
> I always wear thick walking socks and often have my overshoes on in this weather. However, it doesnt seem to make a difference.
> 
> I am getting a little concerned that this constant freezing temp and then sudden burst of warmth when I get home is doing damage to my toes.
> Has anyone had any experience of problems with their toes due to the cold?


 
Try neoprene overshoes


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## Crankarm (12 Mar 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Whenever I have my thick socks on, I always make sure that the shoes arent too tight. I have had blisters on the outside of my feet in the past where the shoe has been rubbing so I now ensure that they are not too tight.


 
Matthew - you have to use a layering system. Thin sock, mid sock, then thick sock ideally a thick fleecy sock (Feet Heaters 2.5tog) as has already been suggested then winter shoes/boots (+1 size larger than normal). One pair of thick socks will NOT keep your feet warm. Perhaps you should invest in a pair of winter cycling boots such as Shimano MW80s.

You could also put some toe warmers in your shoes/boots such that skiers and climbers use.


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## Crankarm (12 Mar 2013)

wanda2010 said:


> Heated gloves/insoles or heat pouches. I have Raynaud's. Makes winter cycling/running 'challenging'


 
I was going to suggest Raynaud's but you beat me to it.


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## ayceejay (13 Mar 2013)

Did you try any of these suggestions with success Matthew?


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## fossyant (13 Mar 2013)

ayceejay said:


> Did you try any of these suggestions with success Matthew?


 
He's a teenager, don't expect him to do anything quickly, nor follow advice


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## Matthew_T (14 Mar 2013)

ayceejay said:


> Did you try any of these suggestions with success Matthew?


I havent been out since my commute on Tuesday. And my toes were okay then but I think it was due to me wearing my leggins under my waterproof trousers (something I only do when it is particularly cold). .
Tomorrow I will try the double sock technique.


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## geo (14 Mar 2013)

I used to have a similar issue of very cold feet even on a chilly not freezing day. Somebody on here suggested Assos socks (thank you ). I had always avoided Assos kit due to the heavy price tag that comes with it. Anyway I decided to give it a try and bought 2 pair of Assos winter socks and a pair of Castelli neoprene overshoes, the result being my feet feel like I'm sitting infront of the fire even on the coldest of days. I really cannot stress enough how good these socks are for me, yes there expensive for a pair of socks but they work so who cares what they cost. Good luck.


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## gbb (16 Mar 2013)

GrasB said:


> Just a thought but are you keeping your lower legs warm enough, especially around the ankles. If your blood gets cold then keeping your feet warm is never going to happen. Even a small drop is blood temp is enough to cause problems. For this reason I find that thermal compression calf guards are essential at very lot temps.


 Good point, and one that took a long time for me to realise .
Heat holders for me, plus Diadora chili winter boots, several sizes too big, plus leg warmers. Although ive not been out much this winter and even less so in the real cold, ive found myself much more comfortable.

Those who don't suffer, don't understimate how much it hurts...Christ i could cry sometimes after 1 hour in sub zero temps, ive seen me sit on the stairs after taking my shoes off and rock in pain, its excruciating.

Poor circulation, it must be. I did see someone mentioned cold hands, even when just out walking ?...thats me.


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## redste (17 Mar 2013)

I'm another one suffering with cold feet, even today in a mildish 5 degrees!!
I was thinking that maybe my feet are sweating, the sweat turns cold then making my feet cold???
People have suggested plastic bags. Don't these just make your feet sweat even more?
I think it could be a circulation problem with me, my hands and feet are cold nearly all the time, indoors and out.


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## beastie (19 Mar 2013)

I have Shimano MW80's and they are awesome. If I am on a ride in the country I wear some cheap Aldi over shoes to keep the shoot off them. 1 pair Aldi winter socks, boots and Aldi overshoes saw me do 50 mile in minus 4-5 and my toes were toasty and I have had probs in the past. I will be getting some lobster gloves for next year too. 

When your out and it's really cold you may feel a bit warm for 30 mins, but when your core temp drops your extremitys will.feel very cold very quickly. If you keep your body temp up then your toes should cope better.


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