# Cyclists that put a slur on our good name



## QuinnDexter (5 Aug 2010)

After returning home from my daily commute, I decided to visit the supermarket in my car. After leaving the supermarket with enough Ice cream to fill a swimming pool I noticed a rather shoddy looking guy on a ahoddy raleigh racing bike pass me , then wobble into the middle of the road as I approached. I used my horn and got a middle finger off him, then a tirade of abuse.

Cyclist "What's your focking problem"
Me "Would be an idea to indicate before you move to the centre of the road"
Cyclist "Whos says so"
Me "The Highway code and common sense"
Cyclist "$&387$&£&^$&*^£ £&$^^£!"&^£^"

He then road of, overtaking cars waiting at some lights before mounting the pavement and riding off.

If someone knocked him off his bike then it would be the motorists fault.

Anyone else have examples like this.


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## Bollo (5 Aug 2010)




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## fossyant (5 Aug 2010)

I get this crap off my kids on the Scalextric...... you come off it's stop till all are on again........... 

Chill............ really.............


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## gaz (5 Aug 2010)

*[quote name='The Highway code']212*
When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162-167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.


*213*
Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.


*[/quote]*

As a cyclist, you should know how to drive around cyclists, especially those that don't look like they know what they are doing.


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## ManiaMuse (5 Aug 2010)

* 112*
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You *MUST NOT* use your horn


while stationary on the road
when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am
except when another road user poses a danger.


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## 4F (5 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151810"]
Yep, I have a problem with drivers and illegal use of the horn.


[/quote]


Nice response


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## ufkacbln (5 Aug 2010)

Institute of Advanced Motorsts:



> Sounding your horn when you are close will startle them, maybe into swerving in front of you. They will usually be aware of you already! Slow down around cyclists and drive smoothly. Keep within the speed limit.



I must admit that IN traffic signalling is not always a good idea as you lose part of your control.

If the following traffic is sufficiently far away then your actions are clear enough without a signal.

What you need is an AirZound...pull up alongside, unleash the beast, smile and say "Guess what - I've got one as well!"


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## ianrauk (5 Aug 2010)

One of the worst things when on a bike is someone blasting their car horn. Whether it's at you or at someone else. Downright dangerous.


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## HJ (5 Aug 2010)

Odd how there never any threads about driver's worrying about the bad behaviour of a few drivers giving all drivers a bad name. 

Many drivers seem to think that the very act of driving a car makes _them_ better than everyone else, they seem to think that once they have passed their test they no longer need to bother. Well the truth is the way you driver for your test is the way you are supposed to drive for the rest of your life!!


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## 2Loose (5 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> After returning home from my daily commute, I decided to visit the supermarket in my car. After leaving the supermarket with enough Ice cream to fill a swimming pool I noticed a rather shoddy looking guy on a ahoddy raleigh racing bike pass me , then wobble into the middle of the road as I approached. I used my horn and got a middle finger off him, then a tirade of abuse.





He passed you, then wobbled into the middle of the road. I take it he passed you on the left and then moved out the central white line?


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## BentMikey (5 Aug 2010)

Chuffy could give Quinn some horn!!


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## taxing (6 Aug 2010)

I never signal when I'm moving into the centre of the lane, I wouldn't want people to think that I'm turning right/changing lane when I'm just positioning myself better for an upcoming junction/pinch point/avoiding a drain. Am I wrong? Obviously I wait for a gap in traffic before doing this by the way, I'm not swerving in front of speeding cars.


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## hackbike 666 (6 Aug 2010)

Im sorry if I wobble my bike...It must make me a bad person.

If some tit gave blew the horn at me unnecessarily he'd probably get the finger back.

Sometimes that paramount to bullying.


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## Trevrev (6 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151810"]
Yep, I have a problem with drivers and illegal use of the horn.


[/quote]


Hear Hear........
People on horns are my only pet hate while riding. Sounding your horn from behind makes people jump, which in its self can cause a serious incident.
And deserves the middle finger!


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## Simba (6 Aug 2010)

Speaking of horns, I had some idiot in a van beeping at me while stationary at a RED light, I was first at the queue and in primary ready to move off. He beeped again as we set off only for him to turn left. What an ass.


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> After returning home from my daily commute, I decided to visit the supermarket in my car. After leaving the supermarket with enough Ice cream to fill a swimming pool I noticed a rather shoddy looking guy on a ahoddy raleigh racing bike pass me , then wobble into the middle of the road as I approached. I used my horn and got a middle finger off him, then a tirade of abuse.
> 
> Cyclist "What's your focking problem"
> Me "Would be an idea to indicate before you move to the centre of the road"
> ...



The Law requires motorists to drive with due care, attention and consideration. As a driver you have to watch out for dozy pedestrians and incompetent cyclists more than for those who are alert and able, and drive as carefully as necessary without getting impatient or annoyed. The horn should only ever be used as a warning of your presence, not to admonish.
Cyclists have a bad name but it's motorists who bring danger to the roads and are responsible for managing that danger.


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## 661-Pete (6 Aug 2010)

Uncle Mort said:


> Hook, line, and sinker.
> 
> The OP is just trolling .


Not necessarily. But I think he gets the message  

I may have used the horn at a cyclist, years ago, but I can't remember when. The sort of situation might be: kid apparently zipping out of a side road into my path without looking. Horn has to be a life-saver, only that and nothing else...


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

Uncle Mort said:


> Hook, line, and sinker.
> 
> The OP is just trolling .



Ahhhhh....


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## Bird Brain (6 Aug 2010)

The original poster must be on a wind-up,I agree.


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## PK99 (6 Aug 2010)

taxing said:


> I never signal when I'm moving into the centre of the lane, I wouldn't want people to think that I'm turning right/changing lane when I'm just positioning myself better for an upcoming junction/pinch point/avoiding a drain. Am I wrong? Obviously I wait for a gap in traffic before doing this by the way, I'm not swerving in front of speeding cars.



Depends how you signal, i'd use a flat handed "stay back" to move to the middle of the lane to let a following car know i am aware of them


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## summerdays (6 Aug 2010)

taxing said:


> I never signal when I'm moving into the centre of the lane, I wouldn't want people to think that I'm turning right/changing lane when I'm just positioning myself better for an upcoming junction/pinch point/avoiding a drain. Am I wrong? Obviously I wait for a gap in traffic before doing this by the way, I'm not swerving in front of speeding cars.



Me too - I would spend my life signalling and giving potentially confusing messages given the number of potential side roads I could be turning into - when I would rather have my hands on the handlebars in case of pothole I don't know about or needing to brake suddenly. I have usually looked several times when I know/can see an obstruction coming up ahead and start gradually moving out in advance, and then move back in fairly promptly after the obstruction if its safe. How many cars do you see signal to move around a parked car or change their lane position as they approach a road narrowing. (That may be because I'm normally cycling in a busy city though).


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

None of that makes not-signalling correct behaviour though.


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## Norm (6 Aug 2010)

summerdays said:


> Me too ...


Me three.

I've been told, on motorbike training, that you signal when you change lanes, not when you move about within your own lane.Slightly different because the speed means you aren't being overtaken, but it's a general principle I use whenever I'm on two wheels.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

Aaahh, the self righteousness of the (probably) non-driving cyclists here is staggering. When driving or motorbiking, I too am fed up with cyclists who you attempt to overtake considerately only for them to NOT look over their shoulder, NOT indicate, just move dangerously into the middle of the road right in front of you with no warning. You have attempted to pass carefully, given them plenty of room and they still try to cycle under your front wheel(s). In these circumstances what is wrong with using the horn(as well as performing an emergency stop) in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?

Cycling out of Southsea yesterday morning an idiot rides off the pavement on the other side of the road, doesn't look in any direction other than the one he's heading in. He's wobbling all over the place, I slow down to try and avoid him but still end up being forced into the kerb so I call out 'look out' and was quite surprised when it turned out I was the 'fc*king cn*t' and he could have me any time. Some contributors to this forum need to realise that there are plenty of idiots on bicycles who make life for other road (and pavement) users just about bloody impossible. I will add that conversely that there are plenty of good cyclists as well but obviously one doesn't notice them.

No, I am not trolling.


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## alecstilleyedye (6 Aug 2010)

what does the fact that the old raleigh was "shoddy" have to do with anything?

me smells a bike snob…


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Aaahh, the self righteousness of the (probably) non-driving cyclists here is staggering. When driving or motorbiking, I too am fed up with cyclists who you attempt to overtake considerately only for them to NOT look over their shoulder, NOT indicate, just move dangerously into the middle of the road right in front of you with no warning. You have attempted to pass carefully, given them plenty of room and they still try to cycle under your front wheel(s). In these circumstances what is wrong with using the horn(as well as performing an emergency stop) in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?
> 
> Cycling out of Southsea yesterday morning an idiot rides off the pavement on the other side of the road, doesn't look in any direction other than the one he's heading in. He's wobbling all over the place, I slow down to try and avoid him but still end up being forced into the kerb so I call out 'look out' and was quite surprised when it turned out I was the 'fc*king cn*t' and he could have me any time. Some contributors to this forum need to realise that there are plenty of idiots on bicycles who make life for other road (and pavement) users just about bloody impossible. I will add that conversely that there are plenty of good cyclists as well but obviously one doesn't notice them.
> 
> No, I am not trolling.



It looks like your driving could be considerably better, despite whatever the cyclist was doing. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do.


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## sunnyjim (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> After returning home from my daily commute, I decided to visit the supermarket in my car. After leaving the supermarket with enough Ice cream to fill a swimming pool I noticed a rather shoddy looking guy on a ahoddy raleigh racing bike pass me , then wobble into the middle of the road as I approached. I used my horn and got a middle finger off him, then a tirade of abuse.



Absolutely appalling. I’ve noticed quite a few shoddy looking people myself recently. Some of them don’t even wear a tie. And their horrible common bikes - <shudder> Raleigh! At least they could try to keep to the back streets round their grubby hovels and not make the place look so untidy.


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## ManiaMuse (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Aaahh, the self righteousness of the (probably) non-driving cyclists here is staggering. When driving or motorbiking, I too am fed up with cyclists who you attempt to overtake considerately only for them to NOT look over their shoulder, NOT indicate, just move dangerously into the middle of the road right in front of you with no warning. You have attempted to pass carefully, given them plenty of room and they still try to cycle under your front wheel(s). In these circumstances what is wrong with using the horn(as well as performing an emergency stop) in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?



As the overtaking vehicle you are the one responsible for making sure the overtake is safe. You should be prepared for an inexperienced cyclist to wobble or move unexpectedly and that means giving them plenty of room and being prepared to back off if suddenly you find yourself with no room or an oncoming vehicle. If you say you are being forced into the curb then that suggests at that point it was unsafe to overtake. 

I fail to see how using the horn would make the situation any safer. An inexperienced or wobbling cyclist is even more likely to be startled by a car horn and do something unpredictable or potentially dangerous. Unless the cyclist is deaf or you are driving a magical silent car it is highly unlikely that the cyclist is not aware of your presence already.

And how exactly are their lives pathetic and worthless?


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

We know that there are plenty of idiots on bikes and if they show up on this forum site we give them a hard time. If someone said 


> I cycled on the footpath, went onto the road and through a red light and a motorist beeped me so I gave him the finger


then they'd get properly flamed or accused of trolling. But the fact is that motorists have to be able to take other people's poor road skills into account when they drive without losing their temper. It's one of the conditions of using a motor vehicle on the public roads. Shoddy cyclists are annoying but impatient motorists are downright dangerous.


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## Jezston (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> It looks like your driving could be considerably better, despite whatever the cyclist was doing. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do.




You guys aren't serious, right? You don't seriously think that pulling out into the center of the lane without looking behind you is perfectly acceptable do you? If someone had done that on video you'd be all over them, Lee (unless they were a courier of course).

Is this about getting at the truth or just having an argument between 'us' and 'them' and having to win?

In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention the closest I've got to car ownership is getting a form for a provisional license, then forgetting about it.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Aaahh, the self righteousness of the (probably) non-driving cyclists here is staggering. When driving or motorbiking, *I too am fed up with cyclists who you attempt to overtake considerately only for them to NOT look over their shoulder, NOT indicate, just move dangerously into the middle of the road right in front of you with no warning*. You have attempted to pass carefully, given them plenty of room and they still try to cycle under your front wheel(s). In these circumstances what is wrong with using the horn(as well as performing an emergency stop) in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?


It's outrageous, isn't it... I mean, when they are approaching a parked car, and then move out to overtake it without looking back, how in the world could you be expected to anticipate that sort of stupidity??? 

For the ones who turn right with no signalling and/or checking over their shoulder, well, yes they are clearly idiots and will no doubt be taken out of the gene pool in the not too distant future.


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## crumpetman (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> You guys aren't serious, right? You don't seriously think that pulling out into the center of the lane without looking behind you is perfectly acceptable do you? If someone had done that on video you'd be all over them, Lee (unless they were a courier of course).
> 
> Is this about getting at the truth or just having an argument between 'us' and 'them' and having to win?
> 
> In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention the closest I've got to car ownership is getting a form for a provisional license, then forgetting about it.



Pulling into the centre of the lane without looking behind you is not acceptable. 

But, if you are behind a cyclist (and in a car or on a bike or any vehicle which is moving faster than the cyclist in front) then you should be paying attention to obstacles in front of you and anticipating what the person in front is going to do. This goes for whatever vehicle happens to be in front of you. It could be a milk float, a tractor, a learner. If you can see some parked cars, roadworks or any other such obstacle that the person in front will need to go around then you should take that into account if you are planning an overtake.


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> You guys aren't serious, right? You don't seriously think that pulling out into the center of the lane without looking behind you is perfectly acceptable do you? If someone had done that on video you'd be all over them, Lee (unless they were a courier of course).
> 
> Is this about getting at the truth or just having an argument between 'us' and 'them' and having to win?
> 
> In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention the closest I've got to car ownership is getting a form for a provisional license, then forgetting about it.



Why would you assume I was saying anything about the cyclist's quality of riding, or did you just miss the bolded bit below?



BentMikey said:


> It looks like your driving could be considerably better, *despite whatever the cyclist was doing*. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do.


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## BSRU (6 Aug 2010)

As a car driver you have to accept that a cyclist may make sudden moves without any warning, whether for legitimate reasons or just bad bicycle control. It is alot better if they do give some sort of indication but as the user of a large metal box the onus is on me to take extra care.


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> It's outrageous, isn't it... I mean, when they are approaching a parked car, and then move out to overtake it without looking back, how in the world could you be expected to anticipate that sort of stupidity???
> 
> For the ones who turn right with no signalling and/or checking over their shoulder, well, yes they are clearly idiots and will no doubt be taken out of the gene pool in the not too distant future.




The roads are not part of the natural selection process. They're how idiots get around.


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## DrSquirrel (6 Aug 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> *It's outrageous, isn't it... I mean, when they are approaching a parked car, and then move out to overtake it without looking back, how in the world could you be expected to anticipate that sort of stupidity??? *
> 
> For the ones who turn right with no signalling and/or checking over their shoulder, well, yes they are clearly idiots and will no doubt be taken out of the gene pool in the not too distant future.




You're being sarcastic right?

If a cyclist is approaching a parked car in the gutter it is VERY EASY to anticipate they are going to go around it - regardless of if they look/indicate/dance with maraccas.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

'It looks like your driving could be considerably better, despite whatever the cyclist was doing. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do. '


How do you leave enough room if the plonker in question, without looking, swerves right across your lane (infact, the entire road) just because they want to go in the newsagents on the other side. Under those circumstances all you could do is never overtake any cyclist, which indicates to me that you have never driven.


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

drsquirrel said:


> You're being sarcastic right?
> 
> If a cyclist is approaching a parked car in the gutter it is VERY EASY to anticipate they are going to go around it - regardless of if they look/indicate/dance with maraccas.



But is he being sarcastic for the second point, too?


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## gaz (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Aaahh, the self righteousness of the (probably) non-driving cyclists here is staggering. When driving or motorbiking, I too am fed up with cyclists who you attempt to overtake considerately only for them to NOT look over their shoulder, NOT indicate, just move dangerously into the middle of the road right in front of you with no warning. You have attempted to pass carefully, given them plenty of room and they still try to cycle under your front wheel(s). In these circumstances what is wrong with using the horn(as well as performing an emergency stop) in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?
> 
> Cycling out of Southsea yesterday morning an idiot rides off the pavement on the other side of the road, doesn't look in any direction other than the one he's heading in. He's wobbling all over the place, I slow down to try and avoid him but still end up being forced into the kerb so I call out 'look out' and was quite surprised when it turned out I was the 'fc*king cn*t' and he could have me any time. Some contributors to this forum need to realise that there are plenty of idiots on bicycles who make life for other road (and pavement) users just about bloody impossible. I will add that conversely that there are plenty of good cyclists as well but obviously one doesn't notice them.
> 
> No, I am not trolling.


Replace cyclists with motorists and this still applies.

Some contributors to this thread need to look at there own driving and perhaps open there eyes whilst in control of a vehicle.


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> 'It looks like your driving could be considerably better, despite whatever the cyclist was doing. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do. '
> 
> 
> How do you leave enough room if the plonker in question, without looking, swerves right across your lane (infact, the entire road) just because they want to go in the newsagents on the other side. Under those circumstances all you could do is never overtake any cyclist, which indicates to me that you have never driven.



I cycle and drive. Somehow I can usually tell what's going to happen next, I think that my subconcious has learnt to read the road. But the main point here is not what happened, but how you reacted to it.


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## DrSquirrel (6 Aug 2010)

dondare said:


> But is he being sarcastic for the second point, too?



No idea - im not talking about that - I should have really scrubbed that part out of the quotes to stop the pedants


Edited for clarity.


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## threebikesmcginty (6 Aug 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> It's outrageous, isn't it... I mean, when they are approaching a parked car, and then move out to overtake it without looking back, how in the world could you be expected to anticipate that sort of stupidity???



Strange isn't it how there are so many drivers who think that someone on a bike is just going to magically drive through a parked vehicle and then reappear on the other side.


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## Spinney (6 Aug 2010)

Perhaps the OP hooting at the cyclist would have made the cyclist aware that he had swerved into the path of a car and had therefore put himself in danger? i.e. using the horn may have made the cyclist aware that he should take more care in future?

(Unlikely to happen in this particular case...)

Without knowing the exact circumstances, I don't see how people here can say that the OPs driving was at fault. It sounds to me as if the cyclist went past his car, and then swerved in front of him. How are you supposed to anticipate that? Short of pulling over any time a cyclist is anywhere near your car?

All the stuff about drivers being able to anticipate cyclists overtaking parked cars is irrelevant to the OP.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

dondare said:


> I cycle and drive. Somehow I can usually tell what's going to happen next, I think that my subconcious has learnt to read the road. But the main point here is not what happened, but how you reacted to it.



Blimey, the CIA would probably be interested in your abilities. Did I see you in that programme 'Heroes'?


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Why would you assume I'm not a driver? Perhaps the difference is that I'd like to think I'm much more aware of the danger I bring to others piloting a tonne and a half of metal around the public highway.

For that matter, why would you assume most people on here aren't drivers? Some aren't sure, but I'd guess they are in the minority.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (6 Aug 2010)

drsquirrel said:


> You're being sarcastic right?
> 
> If a cyclist is approaching a parked car in the gutter it is VERY EASY to anticipate they are going to go around it - regardless of if they look/indicate/dance with maraccas.


Yes. Missed the smiley out as I thought it would be obvious... but then when you read it (i.e. me reading it) knowing the tone it should be delivered with it's easy to see that, apologies. 

I like the idea of a cyclist dancing with maraccas when overtaking a parked car though...


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## bibes (6 Aug 2010)

Yes - as someone who regularly zooms around central London on a bike, I am often appalled by the "holier than thou" attitude of some cyclists. Still, as a (motor)biker, I'm also appalled at the behaviour of some other (motor)bikers. Funnily enough, as a car driver, I tend to find most car drivers pretty responsible.

Tossers in all walks of life I'm afraid although I must confess to finding cyclists the most self -regarding and prone to insane rage if one dares to encroach on their self-satisfied and self-imposed sense of moral authority.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Blimey, the CIA would probably be interested in your abilities. Did I see you in that programme 'Heroes'?



It's called "anticipation" and is not a psychic ability, it is something that one picks up over time, little things that one can pick up on that alert you to the possibility that someone may be about to do something unusual or out of the ordinary.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

Back to the OP it sounds like some poor cycling and some poor driving - "six of one and half a dozen of the other" and each shouting the odds in their own way


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## Amanda P (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> in order to save their pathetic worthless lives?



You're not trolling? So you _seriously _think anyone who cycles badly (in your opinion) is pathetic, and their life is worthless?

Words fail me.


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

bibes said:


> Yes - as someone who regularly zooms around central London on a bike, I am often appalled by the "holier than thou" attitude of some cyclists. Still, as a (motor)biker, I'm also appalled at the behaviour of some other (motor)bikers. Funnily enough, as a car driver, I tend to find most car drivers pretty responsible.
> 
> Tossers in all walks of life I'm afraid although I must confess to finding cyclists the most self regarding and prone to insane rage if one dares to encroach on their self-satisfied holier-than- thou sense of moral and ethical superiority.





LOL! That's quite an amusing reveal of your own world view.


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## taxing (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Why would you assume I'm not a driver? Perhaps the difference is that I'd like to think I'm much more aware of the danger I bring to others piloting a tonne and a half of metal around the public highway.
> 
> For that matter, why would you assume most people on here aren't drivers? *Some aren't sure*, but I'd guess they are in the minority.



I didn't think I was a driver, but now you're making me question myself... could I be a driver? I'm just not sure.


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

LOL, you got me there, sorry, missing comma. I reckon you probably know what I mean though.


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## bibes (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> LOL! That's quite an amusing reveal of your own world view.




Glad to put a smile on your face!


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## small fish (6 Aug 2010)

I beeped at a cyclist the other day... approaching a crossroads, lights green for me, i saw a dreamy cyclist approaching the junction to my left who just sailed through in front of me. Not massively dangerous, I predicted what she was going to do and slowed down as i didn't want cyclist all over the front of my car... 
But she didn't appear to look at all and i had no idea if she'd even seen how close i was - so I beeped my horn for about a second. Got a mouthful of abuse in return - but on the bright side, no finger!


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## Amanda P (6 Aug 2010)

Why are so many drivers so keen to use their horn? The brakes are usually much more effective at avoiding a collision.

I think the only time I've ever used my horn in twenty-something years of driving has been when another driver is reversing towards me having clearly not seen me, and I've nowhere to go to avoid him.

In any other situation, my attention is taken up with braking and looking all around to see what the consequences of me braking might be, and where I might go if braking isn't enough to avoid the collision. Sometimes a passenger will say I should have used the horn, but why? What good would it do?

It's true that, sitting inside a car, the sound of a horn sounds like a polite, if urgent, warning. Outside that tin box, it can be deafening and startling. In a busy situation, no-one knows who's beeping at whom anyway.


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## ManiaMuse (6 Aug 2010)

small fish said:


> I beeped at a cyclist the other day... approaching a crossroads, lights green for me, i saw a dreamy cyclist approaching the junction to my left who just sailed through in front of me. Not massively dangerous, I predicted what she was going to do and slowed down as i didn't want cyclist all over the front of my car...
> But she didn't appear to look at all and i had no idea if she'd even seen how close i was - so I beeped my horn for about a second. Got a mouthful of abuse in return - but on the bright side, no finger!



About a second? That's quite a long time tbh and could come across as aggressive. If you were slowing down anyway to avoid hitting her then why is there any need to alert her of your presence using your horn? If anything you should have beeped as she was pulling out without looking rather than after it had happened.

It's surprising how startling a car horn at close range can be when you are on a bike and not expecting it.


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## Jezston (6 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151847"]
Come back and talk to me when you know what you are going on about.
[/quote]

Another lame cop out response from Lee, being insulting when he can't actually address the points he's attempting to respond to. Seriously weak, and sadly typical of his deliberately incendiary and unconstructive borderline-trolling style.

Where in either the OP or the second 'drivers perspective' post did anyone mention anything about the errant cyclist in question pulling out to move around parked cars?

If a driver moves out to give some distance and starts overtaking a cyclist, and the cyclist without looking behind him starts moving out into the path of the driver, how is the driver supposed to respond? Like others have suggested, are those of you taking the cyclists 'side' suggesting that cars should never attempt to overtake a cyclist ever in case they stupidly pull out into their path without looking?

I'm a bit bemused by many of the responses here, and unless there has been a massive breakdown in communication and we're all missing each others points, I get the feeling that some people are reacting by being unshakedly defensive because one of THEM has attacked one of US. It seems to be like when you get motorists jumping to the defence of bad drivers on the comments threads in articles about a cyclist being injured because they feel the article is an attack against motorists from cyclists.


----------



## Bruce (6 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151810"]
Yep, I have a problem with drivers and illegal use of the horn.


[/quote]


Yes take the below as an example of some idiot sounding a horn at a stopped vehicle for no reason other than to alienate the other road user

https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Bruce said:


> Yes take the below as an example of some idiot sounding a horn at a stopped vehicle for no reason other than to alienate the other road user
> 
> http://www.cyclechat...sy-from-sunday/





Well, I'm as guilty of the next person of sometimes using the horn inappropriately, but that particular video is most definitely not an example. I'd say that was perfect use of the AirZound. Used in warning only, the horn, my anticipation, and my braking worked very well to correct for another road user's mistake and avoid an incident.


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## Bruce (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> Another lame cop out response from Lee, being insulting when he can't actually address the points he's attempting to respond to. Seriously weak, and sadly typical of his deliberately incendiary and unconstructive borderline-trolling style.
> 
> Where in either the OP or the second 'drivers perspective' post did anyone mention anything about the errant cyclist in question pulling out to move around parked cars?
> 
> ...




A Big +1 that attitude is far to common on here Jezston, and I applaud you for pointing it out well done!


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston, did you not see my post #37, or are you ignoring it?


----------



## Jezston (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Jezston, did you not see my post #37, or are you ignoring it?



Sorry I missed it. My point was there didn't seem to be anything in the original post (apart from perhaps the agressive beeping) that suggested there was anything inherently wrong with the driving style, in fact he doesn't really mention much about his 'style' at all - he just said a cyclist pulled out in from of him without warning, so I was a bit bemused why there was so much reaction attacking his driving.


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## Origamist (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> *I'm a bit bemused by many of the responses* *here, and unless there has been a massive breakdown in communication and we're all missing each others points*, I get the feeling that some people are reacting by being unshakedly defensive because one of THEM has attacked one of US. It seems to be like when you get motorists jumping to the defence of bad drivers on the comments threads in articles about a cyclist being injured because they feel the article is an attack against motorists from cyclists.



Don't worry, this phase will pass as you become increasingly innured to the signal to noise ratio in here. 

Illuminating meta-commuting commentaries are an escape of sorts from the combative, macho posturing that defines much of this sub-forum , but sadly, hardly anyone listens to such germane observations!


----------



## Howard (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> If a driver moves out to give some distance and starts overtaking a cyclist, and the cyclist without looking behind him starts moving out into the path of the driver, how is the driver supposed to respond?



Agreed, it doesn't help that the OP's description of the event was ambiguous. 

But even in the case you describe, the driver in question could start with abandoning the manouvre, showing some patience, and waiting until a safe opportunity to overtake presents itself. There are plenty of reasons why the cyclist may be moving into the primary position, and in some situations it's reasonable to assume traffic isn't going to be dumb enough to try and pass you (say approaching a red light). Immediately jumping on the horn because of some minor slight isn't going to win you respect, and from some, it's going to earn you the finger, regardless of the mode(s) of transport involved.


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## Jezston (6 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151879"]
Not insulting at all.

You should give enough room to overtake a cyclist (around 6ft, 3ft being the absolute minimum) which allows for them to unavoidly swere to miss a pothole, drain cover etc. It's in the HC.

So I say again - come back and talk to me when you know what you are on about.
[/quote]

If you don't that dismissing someone's points with a phrase like "come back and talk to me when you know what you are on about" isn't insulting, or at least very rude and unconstructive, perhaps you should refrain from engaging in conversation with other human beings until you learn some basic manners.

Come back and talk to me when you actually feel like addressing my statements and pointing out what is actually wrong with what I said, although I have the feeling you won't, because you can't, but you like so many people with such attitudes on internet forums you can't handle losing face and so you just split hairs over irrelevant points so you can seem you are right about SOMETHING, or just try to make yourself look cleverer and obfuscate with dismissive insults.

And thus the argument goes nowhere, and no settlement is resolved, because it all becomes about keeping face rather than working out what is actually right.


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## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

The sounding of your horn is pointless if the intended recipient does not understand the actual message the driver is trying to convey. If a cyclist suddenly swerves in front of a car travelling along behind it to avoid a pothole, glass on the road, a lose dog, in response to spotting a child between parked cars or observing diesel/petrol on the road then he has not committed any offence. The sounding of a horn by the following car driver would be an action of arrogance conveying the message to the cyclist that he knows better about the road conditions etc ahead and therefore his progress should not be impeded. The driver should also be aware - and most are not - that cyclists do not generally know that vehicles behind them have started to overtake so the onus should rest on him to leave plenty of room in case the unforseeable happens or that the overtake is carried out in such a manner to startle the cyclist - an effect that could happen in response to a horn. 

It seems to me sometimes that ownership and the right to progress on a road is proportionate to the size of vehicle ie 4X4's have priority over motorcycles and scooters who have priority over bicycles. eg. I was in the middle of making a u-turn on my motorcyle on the road but I get beeped by a car just arriving - but wasn't in sight when I started - just because I cause him to have to slow down.


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## Jezston (6 Aug 2010)

I feel I need to point out so that no miscommunication is further incurred that yes of course I am aware that a motorist should give a cyclist plenty of room when overtaking, but how exactly do you distinguish between someone moving around a pothole and suddenly swerving from say, hugging the gutter to right in the middle of the road?

Until we know the exact positions of all vehicles involved don't jump down someone's throat when as a cyclist it might be safe to assume they were giving at least 6 feet during the overtake.


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## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

Jezston said:


> I feel I need to point out so that no miscommunication is further incurred that yes of course I am aware that a motorist should give a cyclist plenty of room when overtaking, but how exactly do you distinguish between someone moving around a pothole and suddenly swerving from say, hugging the gutter to right in the middle of the road?



Given that a cyclist could say that he swerved suddenly for a perceived and legitimate reason - how could you disprove it? - I think it is much more sensible for car drivers to drive with that in mind and not make decisions on how and where the cyclist may ride in front of them. I think there is an onus to protect the more vunerable on the road - not intimidate with horns or by passing too closely.


----------



## Bruce (6 Aug 2010)

shunter said:


> Given that a cyclist could say that he swerved suddenly for a perceived and legitimate reason - how could you disprove it? - I think it is much more sensible for car drivers to drive with that in mind and not make decisions on how and where the cyclist may ride in front of them. I think there is an onus to protect the more vunerable on the road - not intimidate with horns or by passing too closely.



So in other words tear up the HC because Cyclists are always in the right no matter what and dont dare say otherwise.

Thats probably the sort of attitude that creates far more diharmony than anything any idiotic or uncaring car driver could ever do!


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## Howard (6 Aug 2010)

Bruce said:


> So in other words tear up the HC because Cyclists are always in the right no matter what and dont dare say otherwise.



I think what Shunter advocates and the current incarnation of the HC are perfectly compatible. Check out the HC examples already provided.


----------



## snorri (6 Aug 2010)

My attention was taken by the thread title, "...a slur on our good name", the OP is obviously joking, we cyclists don't have a "good name" among the general population, do we?


----------



## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

Bruce said:


> So in other words tear up the HC because Cyclists are always in the right no matter what and dont dare say otherwise.
> 
> Thats probably the sort of attitude that creates far more diharmony than anything any idiotic or uncaring car driver could ever do!




My reply was not a comment on the cyclist's riding skills. It was a general comment on why car drivers should give all cyclists plenty of room. I alluded to the point that there could be instances that a car driver sees bad cycling but it is in effect not bad cycling. Sounding a horn would be stupid in that case. I would imagine that most car drivers would like to get from A-B without hitting a bad/good or any cyclist. Giving all cyclists plenty of room on the road goes a long way to achieving that. I am sure it would be more likely that a crap cyclist will go out of his way to claim he was in the right if he was hit by a car and make a counterclaim against the car drivers insurance. That's why I give them more room.

It's not up to me to enforce the rules of the Highway Code


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## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

snorri said:


> My attention was taken by the thread title, "...a slur on our good name", the OP is obviously joking, we cyclists don't have a "good name" among the general population, do we?



I hope not  I ride bicycles and motorcycles so I can maintain a bad image.


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## hackbike 666 (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> It looks like your driving could be considerably better, despite whatever the cyclist was doing. You're clearly not leaving enough room, reading the road ahead, or anticipating what other road users might do.




That must be one of your best posts ever.

+1 billion

As if motorcyclists are whiter than white anyway.


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## QuinnDexter (6 Aug 2010)

Lol. Didn't realise this post would stir up so much pent up anger  

There is a difference between swerving to avoid something and actually performing a manoeuvre. I cycle every day and can usually read the signs of cyclists on the roads when they are going to swerve or move in the lane. This guy was BAD and had no respect for other road users. You can give a BAD cyclist plenty of room but when they drift infront of you without looking you just have to horn them. 

I would have thought at least the part about him mounting the pavement would have resulted in some encouragement to knock him down next time  


Oh Well...


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## Amanda P (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> I would have thought at least the part about him mounting the pavement would have resulted in some encouragement to knock him down next time
> 
> 
> Oh Well...



Some things are too serious to joke about. People die every day on the roads. 

OK, sometimes it's a result of people's own misjudgements - I've come close to dying that way myself. 

But often it's not, and people we know have been killed. Sorry, but lines like that are just not funny.


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## marinyork (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> Lol. Didn't realise this post would stir up so much pent up anger



If you have large amounts of pent up anger while out on the road and then start a thread going on about it why wouldn't it?


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> when they drift in front of you without looking you just have to horn them....



You reckon?


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## hackbike 666 (6 Aug 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> Some things are too serious to joke about. People die every day on the roads.
> 
> OK, sometimes it's a result of people's own misjudgements - I've come close to dying that way myself.
> 
> But often it's not, and people we know have been killed. Sorry, but lines like that are just not funny.



Got to agree...I have had to very serious incidents recently so I don't find it a joke.Not even in jest when I have also had one motorist use their cars as weapons against me.

I know people on here have had worse...That's without some comedian close passing again because he's on his phone/in a hurry or I have upset him.


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## ManiaMuse (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> You can give a BAD cyclist plenty of room but when they drift infront of you without looking you just have to horn them.



Just like when you're cycling and a car drifts sideways into you while overtaking because the driver has misjudged oncoming traffic you have to horn them...........oh wait.....

Some road users are more vulnerable than others. The way you have worded it it seems like you used the horn not because you wanted to improve the cyclist's safety by alerting him to your presence but instead as an aggressive action because he invaded your space.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

In response to those who think you should never use the horn:

So if your overtaking speed is such that you can't slow in time to avoid the @rse on a bike who is drifting into your path and you can't swerve because of an oncoming car or someone overtaking you (motorbike maybe?), you should still not hoot to warn them for fear it may startle them out of their idiotic, incompetent daydream?


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## QuinnDexter (6 Aug 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> You reckon?




Yes...which is why I sounded my horn. I was traveling at 22 miles an hour in a straight line. Hardly constitutes bad driving. Also the horn was short not angry and long like the majority of posters think I did.

I have to say that reading some replies there are obviously a lot of cyclists posting here would obviously think that it is ok to cycle down a street, move into the centre of the carriageway without looking or signalling whilst the driver behind is driving in a straight line just about to pass the said cyclist. These are probably the same cyclists who think it's fine to jump red lights or ride on the pavement. The post was a simple forum to hopefully listen to other cyclists who witness bad cycling. I didn't realise it would turn into a rebuttle from some self righteous cyclists who obviously think the highway code is just for motorists and who obviously either do not drive or have a chip on their shoulder.

As a cyclist and motorist I feel I am more aware of what cyclists do and respect their space when passing , following or doing any manouevers myself. BAD cyclists cannot be preempted. 

The highway code states that you can use your horn " when another vehicle poses a danger.". The cyclist posed a danger...therefore I used my horn.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> Some things are too serious to joke about. People die every day on the roads.
> 
> OK, sometimes it's a result of people's own misjudgements - I've come close to dying that way myself.
> 
> But often it's not, and people we know have been killed. Sorry, but lines like that are just not funny.



Warning, Warning, humour free zone, please don't invite me around for Christmas.


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## marinyork (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> Yes...which is why I sounded my horn. I was traveling at 22 miles an hour in a straight line. Hardly constitutes bad driving. Also the horn was short not angry and long like the majority of posters think I did.
> 
> The highway code states that you can use your horn " when another vehicle poses a danger.". The cyclist posed a danger...therefore I used my horn.



A horn being sounded is unnecessary aggression deliberately to annoy in that situation. I'm sorry but you know perfectly well you shouldn't have horned, you're just making excuses now, even applying spin to the highway code in a desperate attempt to justify yourself.


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## Dan B (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> So if your overtaking speed is such that you can't slow in time to avoid the @rse on a bike who is drifting into your path and you can't swerve because of an oncoming car or someone overtaking you (motorbike maybe?)


then you've already ****ed up. End of


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## Alien8 (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> In response to those who think you should never use the horn:
> 
> So if your overtaking speed is such that you can't slow in time to avoid the @rse on a bike who is drifting into your path and you can't swerve because of an oncoming car or someone overtaking you (motorbike maybe?), you should still not hoot to warn them for fear it may startle them out of their idiotic, incompetent daydream?



Well if you overtook like this:







the problem of "an oncoming car or someone overtaking you" would disappear.


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## Dan B (6 Aug 2010)

Indeed. It would also seriously ameliorate the problem of their "drifting into your path". Mind you, it does nothing in the scenario where they dematerialise and instantly reappear a full ten feet further right, which I always find a problem


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## gaz (6 Aug 2010)

coruskate said:


> then you've already ****ed up. End of


Blunt. But 100% correct.


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

Alien8 said:


> Well if you overtook like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening. I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land. Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.
I will know doubt be slagged off as a car driving maniac, but I actually cycle more than I drive/motorbike.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> In response to those who think you should never use the horn:



Name one person who has said that you should never use the horn.


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Well there you go then. It seems our estimate of Clive's poor driving ability was right?


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

But Clive is the only driver in the village! Us cyclists know nothing about the roads.


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## Origamist (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening.



Yeah, that's what's causing all the congestion in town and cities - cyclists! I nominate this as post of the week.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (6 Aug 2010)

Well, if we paid road tax that would soon get us off the road and out of the way of cars, and get the cities moving again...


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## hackbike 666 (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening. I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land. Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.
> I will know doubt be slagged off as a car driving maniac, but I actually cycle more than I drive/motorbike.



Eh? I don't expect that much space but I do expect some space instead of yet another dangerous idiotic overtake.


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## Origamist (6 Aug 2010)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Well, if we paid road tax that would soon get us off the road and out of the way of cars, and get the cities moving again...




I'd go further. I'd mothball my bike and drive the car into work - that'd solve the log jam in the rush hour...

Right, pub time...


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## stowie (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening. I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land. Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.
> I will know doubt be slagged off as a car driving maniac, but I actually cycle more than I drive/motorbike.



Most towns are gridlocked in the morning and evening, but that is nothing to do with cyclists slowing up traffic, more to do with too many cars.

I expect car drivers to exercise a high degree of caution around cyclists and pedestrians in town. I expect that as a car driver who is driving a large vehicle and has had to pass a test to show competence that I take into account, as far as is reasonable, the possibility of a less experienced cyclist.

It does make me chuckle that many car drivers have to overtake in town when their average speed is normally less than mine on a bicycle - hence the constant overtake and re-overtake. In these circumstances even if they sat behind the bicycle at 10mph, they wouldn't get to their destination any later.


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## summerdays (6 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> There is a difference between swerving to avoid something and actually performing a manoeuvre.




I'm just back from the town centre, and whilst I was there saw one of the cyclists who give us a bad name... it was in the shopping area - wide pavements at times narrowed to one lane (one way anyway), and cars aren't meant to be there. Two buses pulled away from a bus stop with about a car gap between them ... and suddenly a cyclist appeared from a pedestrian alleyway and cycled straight across the road to then cycle on the pavement on the opposite site. Even his mate with him must have thought it was close because he didn't go. I heard the squeal of the brakes of the bus - and would happily of been a witness - as I assume most of the other people would have been, for the bus driver that it wouldn't have been his fault if he had hit him. I know he wasn't going very fast - but it did require very quick reactions.



Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening.




Quite a few motorists do pass me with that much space - not all I will agree - but it's far more pleasant than feeling something pass you really close


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## Alien8 (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> ...then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening.



I think you'll find most are - that's why people ride bikes.



Clive Atton said:


> Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.




Clive, I'd like to apologise to you on behalf of all other road users for being an inconvenience to you.


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## BentMikey (6 Aug 2010)

Here in London it's all the selfish private car drivers that are blocking up the roads, that's why bikes are quicker than any other form of transport. Methinks Clive and Quinn should be paying extra tax to make up for the inconvenience they cause to everybody else.


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## MartinC (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening. I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land. Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.
> I will know doubt be slagged off as a car driving maniac, but I actually cycle more than I drive/motorbike.




So in essence you believe that the HC is optional and need not apply if you consider it to be a nuisance. But, hang on a minute, isn't that what the original complaint about the cyclist was?


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## Dan B (6 Aug 2010)

MartinC said:


> So in essence you believe that the HC is optional and need not apply if you consider it to be a nuisance. But, hang on a minute, isn't that what the original complaint about the cyclist was?


Completely different circumstances, obviously: doubtless the OP doesn't ride a "shoddy" bike


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## Dan B (6 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Here in London it's all the selfish private car drivers that are blocking up the roads, that's why bikes are quicker than any other form of transport. Methinks Clive and Quinn should be paying extra tax to make up for the inconvenience they cause to everybody else.


Isn't that the point of the congestion charge?


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## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

Isn't it ironic whilst we debate about the room to give cyclists and the consequences of that - whether it is bad cycling or not - that CTC send an email with the following.

*Army officer died in accident avoiding pothole

**http://www.dissexpress.co.uk/news/national/army_officer_died_in_accident_avoiding_pothole_1_796583*

In the end the lorry driver - whilst shown to have no blame - still has to live with the fact he killed a cyclist.


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

Motorists shouldn't be blaming cyclists for the fact that their own vehicles require a lot of room, or be endangering cyclists when there isn't enough. 
One point, though; there'd be more room for everyone to travel if you didn't insist on leaving your car in the road for the 20 hours or so each day that you aren't actually using it. 
You might also consider that with the exception of motorways and bypasses Britain's roads were never intended for anything that travelled faster than a horse. Virtually the entire road network predates the motor car and if you don't find them wide enough for you then just use the motorways.


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## Glow worm (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening.



Yep that'd be about right. It's my 2 wheeled vehicle that's about 22 inches wide and four feet long that is causing all the gridlock. Nothing to do with your filthy 6 foot wide, 15 foot long, 2 ton, 4 wheeled snotbucket and the 24 million others like it. Nothing at all!


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

Well, he patently failed to anticipate there may be a pothole in the road and unfortunately swerved under the lorry, he displayed the same lack of foresight that all drivers seem to be accused of on this forum. The lorry driver should also have assumed there may be a pothole that might cause the cyclist to swerve and therefore followed him fifteen miles until their routes diverged...................


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## Clive Atton (6 Aug 2010)

Glow worm said:


> Yep that'd be about right. It's my 2 wheeled vehicle that's about 22 inches wide and four feet long that is causing all the gridlock. Nothing to do with your filthy 6 foot wide, 15 foot long, 2 ton, 4 wheeled snotbucket and the 24 million others like it. Nothing at all!



And next time you order your mail order bike from Wiggle, I assume you will insist it is delivered by cycle courier...........


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## shunter (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Well, he patently failed to anticipate there may be a pothole in the road and unfortunately swerved under the lorry, he displayed the same lack of foresight that all drivers seem to be accused of on this forum. The lorry driver should also have assumed there may be a pothole that might cause the cyclist to swerve and therefore followed him fifteen miles until their routes diverged...................



Unfortunately the car driver who reported the pothole could go through it with only the consequence of damaging her wheel - however she did fail to anticipate it. The cyclist who anticipated it would have probably come of his bike anyway if he had went through it so swerving gave him a better chance at least. 

Unfortunately in this case he was run over by the lorry driver.


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## hackbike 666 (6 Aug 2010)

Origamist said:


> I'd go further. I'd mothball my bike and drive the car into work - that'd solve the log jam in the rush hour...
> 
> Right, pub time...



Pub? What's that?


----------



## ManiaMuse (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Well, he patently failed to anticipate there may be a pothole in the road and unfortunately swerved under the lorry, he displayed the same lack of foresight that all drivers seem to be accused of on this forum. The lorry driver should also have assumed there may be a pothole that might cause the cyclist to swerve and therefore followed him fifteen miles until their routes diverged...................


I've had occasions when nice lorry drivers have done exactly that. One time I was at the lights and a large HGV pulled up behind me. I sprinted off since it was a 40 zone but one with loads of pinch points and pedestrian crossings expecting him to come by me. Instead he sat behind me for about 2 miles as I rode at 20mph holding back a fairly big queue of traffic. Even though there were places where an overtake was possible everytime I looked over my shoulder he was hanging back giving me plenty of room.

I gave him a wave as I turned off the main road.


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## Bollo (6 Aug 2010)

I'm all excited, because Clive is showing all the signs of the second coming of Col. In honour of this event, I'm minded to bang out a haiku....

Clive is willing to 
trade lives for convenience.
Saved time trumps safety.

That felt good.


And Matt, you alcy. Since when is 5:30 'pub time'?


----------



## rog (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land.



That's because most normal people don't think other road users should be punished with death if they make a mistake whilst out n about. Show some respect (please).


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## dondare (6 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> Shame about the oncoming cyclist the Audi is about to mow down. But seriously, if every driver had to give this much space to pass a cyclist, or had to follow a cyclist for miles if there wasn't this much space available because of oncoming traffic, then every town would be virtually gridlocked every morning and evening. I really think the people who defend bad riding here regardless of the cyclists determination to collect a Darwin Award are living in cloud cuckoo land. Get real and realise that cyclists aren't the only things on the road, other people need to get around as well and dare I say it, at more than 10 to 20mph.
> I will know doubt be slagged off as a car driving maniac, but I actually cycle more than I drive/motorbike.




Darwin Award. 
The roads are not the Jungle. They are an entirely artificial construction intended to be used by people to get around conveniently and safely, not a mechanism for culling fools in order to improve the gene pool.
The Laws of the Road are not the Law of the Jungle. The Laws of the road are there to keep everyone, even fools, safe. The onus on every road user is to be mindful of the safety of every other road user, a reponsibility that weighs less on cyclists than motorists only because of the respective lethality of their vehicles. 
No-one here will ever defend bad riding - we're very critical of it - but bad riders who annoy drivers are not seen as serious a problem as impatient drivers who endanger cyclists, or justify unsafe driving on the grounds that waiting for a safe time to overtake just too much trouble.


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## Mad Doug Biker (6 Aug 2010)

When I am out on my bike I am only trying my best and do not set out to annoy anyone intentionally. If I do, then sorry, I'm only human (as are drivers, I'll admit).

Although I realise the amount of space shown for overtaking in the picture isn't always practical, my only request to drivers is to please not take it to the other extreme instead, passing with only inches to spare from the ends of my handlebars!

And all the other bits of dangerous driving of course too


Now, after reading that thread, I'm off to lie down in a darkened room.


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## hackbike 666 (7 Aug 2010)




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## Clive Atton (7 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Methinks Clive and Quinn should be paying extra tax to make up for the inconvenience they cause to everybody else.



I drive and ride vehicles registered pre 1973 so I don't pay any road tax, tee hee.


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## BentMikey (7 Aug 2010)

I drive a naughties car, and I don't pay any road tax either. You should both still pay extra tax because of the horrible things you do with your cars.


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## gaz (7 Aug 2010)

Clive Atton said:


> I drive and ride vehicles registered pre 1973 so I don't pay any road tax, tee hee.










There is no such thing as road tax.


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## hackbike 666 (7 Aug 2010)

Im disappointed that Chris Hoy crashed his race car allegedly.Facepalm.


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## gaz (7 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151942"]
In name or meaning? Granted the term road tax does not exist however instead drivers pay VED which is a duty which you can define as a tax?

You will only ever pay VED when driving on the roads so surely this is 'road tax' albeit in a different sense of the word.
[/quote]

Whilst it is in sense a tax, the term is often used to denote the right to use the road and is used to imply that people who don't pay it should not be allowed to use the road. Even though, as we all know, the cost is now based on carbon dioxide emissions of the vehicles (post 1-04-01) and a bicycle emits no emissions.

Thus by using the term 'road tax' we are just enforcing that vehicle drivers pay to use the roads and that they have more right to be on it (thats the b/s that i hear on a weekly basis from people, so clearly it is believed in the community) than we do as we do not pay.


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## gaz (7 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1151944"]
So the term 'road tax' does exist then? It's merely people's ignorance with respect to how it is levied that is the problem. Bicycles are there of course but because pusbikes give off no emissions we are free from the trip down to the PO every 6/12 months or if you are lucky(?) enough spending 20 mins on the DVLA website paying it.
[/quote]

Whilst tax is not in the name VED, it is of course a tax, just like the hidden tax on fags. And as you say, the term 'road tax' is often used in the wrong manor.


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## BentMikey (7 Aug 2010)

I think the clue is in the name VEHICLE Excise Duty. It's a tax on vehicles.


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## Dan B (7 Aug 2010)

Which just goes to show that you shouldn't rely on HM Govt to name things either. Cycles are vehicles too


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## HJ (7 Aug 2010)

BentMikey said:


> I think the clue is in the name VEHICLE Excise Duty. It's a tax on vehicles.



Ah, but bicycles _are_ vehicles, as are Smart cars, Toyota iQ, Seat Leon 1.6 CR TDI, VW Polos _etc_., now where is the similarity? None of them are required to pay VED to use the road. VED is _not_ a tax on road use, it is a tax on CO2 emissions. Odd how the drivers of bigger cars don't go around shouting at Smart car drivers shouting "You don't pay tax get off the road!"


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## Dan B (7 Aug 2010)

HJ said:


> Odd how the drivers of bigger cars don't go around shouting at Smart car drivers shouting "You don't pay tax get off the road!"


I've never driven a Smart car myself, but honestly, I can see no good reason to assume they don't. I mean, BMW and Audi drivers already object strongly to any other car in their reserved lane on the motorway, I don't see why they wouldn't carry that attitude across to other roads


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## ManiaMuse (7 Aug 2010)

Hitler.


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## Tinuts (7 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> Hitler.


Has only got one ball
The other......


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## Bollo (7 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> Hitler.



I'm sorry, but I'm in need of some context here.


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## HLaB (7 Aug 2010)

Bollo said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm in need of some context here.



Well, if Hitler was a cyclist it'd certainly put a slur on our good name


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## Bollo (7 Aug 2010)

HLaB said:


> Well, if Hitler was a cyclist it'd certainly put a slur on our good name



I don't think I've ever seen Hitler wearing a helmet, but I believe he encouraged many millions to wear one.


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## HJ (7 Aug 2010)

Bollo said:


> I don't think I've ever seen Hitler wearing a helmet, but I believe he encouraged many millions to wear one.



As a corporal in the WW1 he would have had to wear a helmet. He also was responsible to the creation of VW and suppressed the German cyclist union.


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## Psycolist (7 Aug 2010)

QuinnDexter said:


> After returning home from my daily commute, I decided to visit the supermarket in my car. After leaving the supermarket with enough Ice cream to fill a swimming pool I noticed a rather shoddy looking guy on a ahoddy raleigh racing bike pass me , then wobble into the middle of the road as I approached. I used my horn and got a middle finger off him, then a tirade of abuse.
> 
> Cyclist "What's your focking problem"
> Me "Would be an idea to indicate before you move to the centre of the road"
> ...


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## Psycolist (7 Aug 2010)

I hate seeing adults using pavements as shortcuts down one way streets. I work in a one way system, if i want to go to my nearest supermarket, it is literally 150yds walk, but by road, because of the one way restrictions, its nearly a mile. Every day, locals use the pavement in my road to take the short route. not wheeling, not pushing, not even scooting, but riding. Its all in an area coverd by CCTV, but is anything done. Bet your life it will be when the Chief Inspectors wife gets clipped.


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## dondare (8 Aug 2010)

Bollo said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm in need of some context here.



Coruskate's avatar? That's a guess.


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## Mad Doug Biker (8 Aug 2010)

dondare said:


> Coruskate's avatar? That's a guess.



He he!

Our 3 legged dog, when asked to give a paw, does a litttle Nazi salute before having to put her paw back down or fall over.

Stroke her on he tummy whilst she's sitting but with you propping her up and she'll do the salute for as long as you stroke her.

She's black, but nobody seems to have told her about the irony of her actions!


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## summerdays (8 Aug 2010)

Psycolist said:


> I hate seeing adults using pavements as shortcuts down one way streets. I work in a one way system, if i want to go to my nearest supermarket, it is literally 150yds walk, but by road, because of the one way restrictions, its nearly a mile. Every day, locals use the pavement in my road to take the short route. not wheeling, not pushing, not even scooting, but riding. Its all in an area coverd by CCTV, but is anything done. Bet your life it will be when the Chief Inspectors wife gets clipped.



That annoys me on two fronts - the fact that they are on the pavement and the fact that some planner thought they would force people to get into their car to make a short journey (yes I know 1 mile isn't long - but could they have put in a cycle contraflow instead (not knowing the road of course), rather than making everyone take a longer route.


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## snorri (8 Aug 2010)

summerdays said:


> That annoys me on two fronts - the fact that they are on the pavement and the fact that some planner thought they would force people to get into their car to make a short journey (yes I know 1 mile isn't long - but could they have put in a cycle contraflow instead (not knowing the road of course), rather than making everyone take a longer route.


+1
summerdays, the voice of reason.


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## ufkacbln (8 Aug 2010)

As for this girl cycling in a Station - and then she makes outrageous demands!

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARwZ3scXQ7U[/media]


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## HLaB (8 Aug 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> As for this girl cycling in a Station - and then she makes outrageous demands!
> 
> [media]
> ]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARwZ3scXQ7U[/media]


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## PBancroft (8 Aug 2010)

That video made me very happy.

As for the thread itself... a wise woman once wrote:-


> *'Anyone can speak Troll,' said Fred dismissively, 'all you have to do is point and grunt.' *





> _"Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" - _J.K. Rowling (2000)​


​


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## marinyork (8 Aug 2010)

Psycolist said:


> I hate seeing adults using pavements as shortcuts down one way streets. I work in a one way system, if i want to go to my nearest supermarket, it is literally 150yds walk, but by road, because of the one way restrictions, its nearly a mile. Every day, locals use the pavement in my road to take the short route. not wheeling, not pushing, not even scooting, but riding. Its all in an area coverd by CCTV, but is anything done. Bet your life it will be when the Chief Inspectors wife gets clipped.



One way streets generally penalise cyclists disproportionately. The solution is for more contraflow streets... This is a scream in your face example of one if ever there was.


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## HJ (8 Aug 2010)

Psycolist said:


> I hate seeing adults using pavements as shortcuts down one way streets. I work in a one way system, if i want to go to my nearest supermarket, it is literally 150yds walk, but by road, because of the one way restrictions, its nearly a mile. Every day, locals use the pavement in my road to take the short route. not wheeling, not pushing, not even scooting, but riding. Its all in an area coverd by CCTV, but is anything done. Bet your life it will be when the Chief Inspectors wife gets clipped.



If it literally 150yds walk why take the car?? Cars are just a pain, get ride of it and you will be far happier, they just give the illusion of Freedom not the real thing. If we could really restrict the use of cars in our towns and cities life would be so much better! Take my advice, get rid of the car and lean to enjoy life!!


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## Mark82 (8 Aug 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> As for this girl cycling in a Station - and then she makes outrageous demands!
> 
> [media]
> ]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARwZ3scXQ7U[/media]







HLaB said:


>




PMSL........ you do that in notts train station and you'll get slapped lol


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## on the road (9 Aug 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> As for this girl cycling in a Station - and then she makes outrageous demands!
> 
> [media]
> ]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARwZ3scXQ7U[/media]


Brilliant


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## Mad Doug Biker (9 Aug 2010)

Mark82 said:


> PMSL........ you do that in notts train station and you'll get slapped lol



Do that at London Victoria and the Plain Clothed Police will probably arrest you for being a suspected terrorist!

The staff at Victoria are, or at least were, totally paranoid if you even have a camera.... if you are on or near the Southern Trains or Gatwick Express platforms that is. South East Trains on the other hand don't give a flying fart what you do. Same station, attitudes a million miles apart.

Don't you just love Britain? .


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