# Too much degreaser?



## Shadow (20 Jun 2019)

I attempt to keep my chain in good working order by regular cleaning. Nothing time consuming or laborious, just the quick rag and wipe after a ride or few.
After a few months I decided it needed a good spring clean so used a degreaser from a well-known national retailer. Rinsed it off and thought there was still quite a lot of muck on it, so gave it a bit more welly with a 'Professional Chain Cleaner', as Morgan Blue like to call it. I was amazed at how much more black gunk came off, wipe after wipe!!
So, was the initial degreaser just rubbish or is it possible to _over-clean_ and degrease a chain too much?


----------



## mjr (20 Jun 2019)

Not sure but I think too much degreaser may be a bad thing because if you use so much degreaser it flushes inside the links thoroughly, then how do you know when you've got it all out and the inner surfaces aren't effectively running unlubricated?


----------



## Profpointy (20 Jun 2019)

I think the whole notion of degreasing chains is wrong. Clean with an oily rag by all means, then add a bit more clean oil. The manufacturer goes to a certain amount of trouble to get oil into the inside rollers and it's then harder for you to get new oil back in, apart from any new oil getting diluted by degreaser residue


----------



## Slick (20 Jun 2019)

I know I soaked one chain overnight in degreaser. It never worked again.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2019)

Shadow said:


> I attempt to keep my chain in good working order by regular cleaning. Nothing time consuming or laborious, just the quick rag and wipe after a ride or few.
> After a few months I decided it needed a good spring clean so used a degreaser from a well-known national retailer. Rinsed it off and thought there was still quite a lot of muck on it, so gave it a bit more welly with a 'Professional Chain Cleaner', as Morgan Blue like to call it. I was amazed at how much more black gunk came off, wipe after wipe!!
> So, was the initial degreaser just rubbish or is it possible to _over-clean_ and degrease a chain too much?



No it was fine. You need agitation to get all grime out from chain. purchase a small ultrasonic bath, put plain water in bath put chain inside small container of de greaser, place in water and run for 5 mins. Watch all the crap just come out from inside the rollers. Wash in fresh water again use ultrasonic bath to remove remnants of de greaser and dry. immediately either oil or re grease chain.

https://www.bestultrasonic.co.uk/home-use-cleaners-8-c.asp


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2019)

Profpointy said:


> I think the whole notion of degreasing chains is wrong. Clean with an oily rag by all means, then add a bit more clean oil. The manufacturer goes to a certain amount of trouble to get oil into the inside rollers and it's then harder for you to get new oil back in, apart from any new oil getting diluted by degreaser residue


chain rollers for bikes dont have seals, they are open design and not an interference fit either. Thoroughly de greasing and re applying either oil or light grease will get inside rollers and provide a good lubrication. Spray grease which have a thinner that evaporates is ideal for flowing inside rollers


----------



## Profpointy (21 Jun 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> chain rollers for bikes dont have seals, they are open design and not an interference fit either. Thoroughly de greasing and re applying either oil or light grease will get inside rollers and provide a good lubrication. Spray grease which have a thinner that evaporates is ideal for flowing inside rollers



Cleaning I get, but why degrease (or de-oil as the case may be)? I'd be astonished if the oil degraded in any meaningful way; it ain't a hot engine or "extreme pressure" situation like a gearbox.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2019)

Profpointy said:


> Cleaning I get, but why degrease (or de-oil as the case may be)? I'd be astonished if the oil degraded in any meaningful way; it ain't a hot engine or "extreme pressure" situation like a gearbox.



Its the dust that mixes with the grease and oil to create a grinding paste. This is what wears the links, causing majority of chain stretch. Regular cleaning will reduce wear and tear. 

There is a cost balance point, because chains dont cost the earth, so how much extra life against cost of servicing chain.

There again, some folk just love the time spent cleaning and lubricating their bikes. Probably getting away just a little longer from the better half


----------



## Profpointy (21 Jun 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Its the dust that mixes with the grease and oil to create a grinding paste. This is what wears the links, causing majority of chain stretch. Regular cleaning will reduce wear and tear.
> 
> There is a cost balance point, because chains dont cost the earth, so how much extra life against cost of servicing chain.
> 
> There again, some folk just love the time spent cleaning and lubricating their bikes. Probably getting away just a little longer from the better half



I too prefer (at least in theory !) to clean and lube rather than throw away/ replace components, though I guess it's moot whether the environmental cost of the chain exceeds the environmental cost of the oil (or degreasant) used. That said, I prefer to use actual clean oil to do the cleaning and flush out the old oil with new. That way you don't contaminate the new oil with degreasant thus (at least potentially) degrading it.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2019)

Profpointy said:


> I too prefer (at least in theory !) to clean and lube rather than throw away/ replace components, though I guess it's moot whether the environmental cost of the chain exceeds the environmental cost of the oil (or degreasant) used. That said, I prefer to use actual clean oil to do the cleaning and flush out the old oil with new. That way you don't contaminate the new oil with degreasant thus (at least potentially) degrading it.


I use a water soluble de greaser, like Gunk. After cleaning I drop chain into hot clean water and ultrasonic again. I remove dry off and spin chain to remove remaining water. By using hot water the chain heats up a little and helps with evaporation. I then re oil so metal is not exposed and water will be dispersed


----------



## slowmotion (21 Jun 2019)

I use Jizer in an ultrasonic bath and then rinse it many times with detergent and water. It then goes in the oven at 70C for an hour before re-oiling.


----------



## fossyant (21 Jun 2019)

I tend to degrease the MTB chain once in a while (4-6 months).


----------



## Broadside (21 Jun 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I use Jizer in an ultrasonic bath and then rinse it many times with detergent and water. It then goes in the oven at 70C for an hour before re-oiling.



What size ultrasonic bath will a cassette fit in? Is a 2 litre jobbie big enough?


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2019)

Broadside said:


> What size ultrasonic bath will a cassette fit in? Is a 2 litre jobbie big enough?



2 litres is 2000cubic cm in volume 20cm*10cm*10cm dimensions


----------



## slowmotion (21 Jun 2019)

Broadside said:


> What size ultrasonic bath will a cassette fit in? Is a 2 litre jobbie big enough?


I've had one of these 2.5 litre jobbies for years.
https://cpc.farnell.com/james-products/ultra-8050/ultrasonic-cleaner-2500ml/dp/SA02321?st=james ultrasonic cleaners
It was used to clean solder flux residues off circuit boards but I realised it would also be good for chains and cassettes. If you take the cassette and the plastic spacers to pieces, this tank is easily big enough. My guess is that if the biggest cog can sit flat in whatever tank you are considering, the rest of the cassette will easily fit in.
BTW, the Jizer degreaser I use is faintly inflammable. Using in an ultrasonic bath probably contravenes all manner of H&F stuff if used commercially. Fortunately, I'm a strictly personal user but I don't leave it unattended in case I have to chuck it out of the window if it spontaneously combusts.


----------



## Broadside (22 Jun 2019)

Great, thank you @CXRAndy and @slowmotion 

One of those cleaners will come in very handy for fleet maintenance!


----------



## Shadow (23 Jun 2019)

Thanks for the replies everyone - educational as usual. 
Ultrasonic bath - lovely idea! CC never ceases to amaze!


----------



## slowmotion (23 Jun 2019)

Shadow said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone - educational as usual.
> Ultrasonic bath - lovely idea! CC never ceases to amaze!


You'll be amazed at the amount of black sludge that comes out of a clean looking chain.


----------



## Shadow (24 Jun 2019)

slowmotion said:


> You'll be amazed at the amount of black sludge that comes out of a clean looking chain.


Ha, scary stuff. Not sure I want to be _that _amazed!!


----------



## 12boy (3 Jul 2019)

I soak my chains in a hot wax solution in a crock pot only used for this purpose. Regular wax mixed with oil and beeswax creates a mix that penetrates the links but doesn't flake off as straight paraffin wax will, and the Crock-Pot is easy to use....just plug it in, and when the wax is molten soak the chain. Waxed chains don't pick up dirt and grit like oil does, so when the chain gets a little noisy I soak it again. Any grit or grime will settle to the bottom. A fringe benefit is waxed chains don't stain khaki trousers like oily ones do.


----------



## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

I clean mine using the method known in latter years as The Mickle. I've usully ground them to 0.5 in 1500 miles (heavy and powerful high gear grinder), and nothing I've tried extends that, so any additional effort is wasted.


----------



## Blue Hills (13 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> I think the whole notion of degreasing chains is wrong. Clean with an oily rag by all means, then add a bit more clean oil. The manufacturer goes to a certain amount of trouble to get oil into the inside rollers and it's then harder for you to get new oil back in, apart from any new oil getting diluted by degreaser residue


But if you don't periodically deepclean, how can you get rid of the grit and general debris that inevitably collects on a chain over time? 

Isn't it this grit mixed in with the oil, however much you keep applying, which degrades the rest of the drivetrain?


----------



## Blue Hills (13 Jul 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I use Jizer in an ultrasonic bath and then rinse it many times with detergent and water. It then goes in the oven at 70C for an hour before re-oiling.


That sounds excessive. And expensive. And a waste of fuel/energy. Why does the chain need to go in an oven for an hour? 

I clean by shaking the chain in degreaser in a 1 litre plastic milk bottle - you only need a bit of degreaser at the bottom.
Rinse thoroughly. Wipe dry with a paper towel - maybe air a bit on the washing line. Fit back on bike and then as I drive it use a clean brush to remove any small bits left between links. Oil. And ride. No oven needed.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (13 Jul 2019)

I've got _'short-arms/deep-pockets'_ - or simply a frugal Yorkshireman

Red diesel (a local garage has it)
I just got a fresh gallon, about 3 months ago, last gallon lasted me for 5 years or so (used on 4 bikes)

I tend to soak a rag, & simply run the chain through it, held inside a clenched fist
If a chain/cassette/rings are heavily 'dusted'/'grimed', I scrub them with an old toothbrush

Only downside, I've found that SWMBO's sense of smell, gets far more sensitive, if I put a treated bike, back in the basement


----------



## Blue Hills (13 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I tend to soak a rag, & simply run the chain through it, held inside a clenched fist



A bare hand? Is this a good idea?

Why don't you use the shaking system?

seems easier and maybe healthier.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (13 Jul 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> A bare hand? Is this a good idea?
> 
> Why don't you use the shaking system?
> 
> seems easier and maybe healthier.



Sorry, my fault, latex (or 'rubber') glove worn, if mainly to keep the smell of diesel off my hands (I don't mind it. but SWMBO does)


----------



## slowmotion (14 Jul 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> That sounds excessive. And expensive. And a waste of fuel/energy. Why does the chain need to go in an oven for an hour?
> 
> I clean by shaking the chain in degreaser in a 1 litre plastic milk bottle - you only need a bit of degreaser at the bottom.
> Rinse thoroughly. Wipe dry with a paper towel - maybe air a bit on the washing line. Fit back on bike and then as I drive it use a clean brush to remove any small bits left between links. Oil. And ride. No oven needed.


Jizer is water soluble, so I rinse it off with repeated water/detergent, and then plain water. I want to get any water out of any tiny spaces between the pins, rollers and plates. That needs heat. Hence the oven.


Anyway, that's what I do.


----------



## Harry1 (12 Aug 2019)

I used to shake my chain in a bottle with a bit of degreaser in it and sometimes I would soak it for 20 minutes. After degreasing it, I would rinse it in hot water and dry it with a cloth before putting oil on it. I then switched to the mickle method and it seems to be the best method I have used so far. The chain doesn't get as dirty now because I don't have oil on the outside of the chain.


----------



## Blue Hills (12 Aug 2019)

Essentially I use your erstwhile system - have done for years.

Are you saying that now you don't clean your chain much?

What about all the muck/grit etc thrown up into the internals of the chain?


----------

