# LEL, audax newbie, navigation



## Sixpackorkeg (12 May 2013)

Hiya
A newbie to the forum and audaxing.
Am riding LEL 2013 and not fancying the idea of using the route maps other than as backup.
Any advice on best means of using GPS ? I know nothing about how to get best use of the gpx files that the event site supplies?

Have ridden LEJOG in 7 days so reasonably comfortable with the distances and RAAM as a relay so comfortable with the varied riding timing, is just the navigation I'm concerned about.

Do car satnavs in a handlebar bag help for example ? Have a Garmin 705 but only ever use it for post ride data, so not clear if that's much use for navigation (small screen not ideal).

Any ideas really appreciated.

I'll be the one with the pink spinergy wheels !!!


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## frank9755 (12 May 2013)

Garmin 705 is ideal. 
The main issue is battery life. The best option is to take a PowerMonkey or battery extender: basically a box with a few AA batteries in which plugs in to it. Someone will be along shortly with a specific recommendation.
Good luck.


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## Sixpackorkeg (12 May 2013)

Thanks Frank. Happy to sort the battery pack stuff. Hopefully a nice few options for the GPS kit will come in.


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## tonyg52 (12 May 2013)

I use a Dakota 20
Big plus takes AA batteries.
It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the higher end Garmin's but is straight forward to use'
I use open street map and mike my own routes on bike hike.


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## Sixpackorkeg (12 May 2013)

tonyg52 said:


> I use a Dakota 20
> Big plus takes AA batteries.
> It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the higher end Garmin's but is straight forward to use'
> I use open street map and mike my own routes on bike hike.



Thanks Tony
Do you know if this model allows gpx files to be loaded into it? Not something I've ever done before


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## Chris Norton (12 May 2013)

Got a smartphone. Lots of app's out there to do this.


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## mcshroom (12 May 2013)

I doubt you'd be able to get a phone to last all five days though.

I use a Garmin 20, which takes aa batteries. To use the gps files from LEL, I would download them as a track and put them in the gpx folder of the device. Following a track doesn't give you the turn reminders, but does allow you to just follow the line on a map which suits me.


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## tonyg52 (12 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Thanks Tony
> Do you know if this model allows gpx files to be loaded into it? Not something I've ever done before


Yes USB cable supplies with the unit.


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## ACS (12 May 2013)

Etrex Vista HCX

Used by many AUK's. Takes AA batteries, almost bullet proof and has a proven track record amonst the long distance community.

Lot of information here

Discussion here


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## Ian H (12 May 2013)

The routesheet will be easy to follow. You need it on the bars in front of you. Each line will have a distance and an instruction. You can see it here: http://www.londonedinburghlondon.com/media/lel_routesheet.pdf.
Otherwise, as above, track in a suitable colour on your gps device. Etrex types are ideal.


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## JoeyB (13 May 2013)

I have a Garmin Edge 800 and I'll map the route as a TCX file. The Garmin will then tell me where to go from there.

I'll extend the battery life with a few Anker Astro2 devices I would imagine. One on the bike and one in each bag drop.


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## Sixpackorkeg (13 May 2013)

ACS said:


> Etrex Vista HCX
> 
> Used by many AUK's. Takes AA batteries, almost bullet proof and has a proven track record amonst the long distance community.
> 
> ...


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## Sixpackorkeg (13 May 2013)

ACS said:


> Etrex Vista HCX
> 
> Used by many AUK's. Takes AA batteries, almost bullet proof and has a proven track record amonst the long distance community.
> 
> ...


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## Sixpackorkeg (13 May 2013)

JoeyB said:


> I have a Garmin Edge 800 and I'll map the route as a TCX file. The Garmin will then tell me where to go from there.
> 
> I'll extend the battery life with a few Anker Astro2 devices I would imagine. One on the bike and one in each bag drop.


Thanks Joey


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## ACS (14 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg

I'm not really in a position to make a comparison between the Vista HCX and other Garmin products apart from the obvious pricing structure. I purchased the HCX in 2010 having taken a lot of advice from the Audax community. My issue being when I’m tired I get disorientated fairly easily and I wanted a device to stop me from ‘going scenic.’ I was finding the stress of trying to navigate using the route guide was spoiling my experience and wanted something to help with the decision making process.

I still carry the route sheet and familiarise myself with the route using Google Maps beforehand. I make up my own route files sectioning the route into divisions based on control points. This way if I do go scenic the device calculates the route to the end of the leg being ridden not the final control point.

The HCX gives me reassurance about my direction of travel, distance and time to the next turn, average and moving speed. The device is robust, water proof and runs off AA batteries a real bonus if you are a full value rider and take part in some of the longer Scottish events. 2x Duracell’s last about 12 hours to 14 hours.

As to being a Fifer, close, a Scouser living in exile.


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## PpPete (14 May 2013)

Another Vista HCx user here.
.. although if I was buying new now it would likely be an Etrex 20 or 30.

The GPX files supplied on the LEL site are "Tracks".
The older models like the Vista just display these as breadcrumb trails on the screen - that you can then follow.

There is a different kind of gpx file called a "Route" which was used by these older units to provide navigational guidance.
I use both track & route... there is a cunning way of doing this that gets the screen to light up and beep as you approach each route sheet instruction although it is quite long in the preparation stage.

The newer Etrexes can apparently "navigate" along both "tracks" & "routes".

Sadly, neither old nor new models enable one to display the "instruction" in big enough font for my aging eyes.... so if you see me with my nose down near the stem you'll know why !



ACS said:


> Sixpackorkeg
> The HCX gives me reassurance about my direction of travel, distance and time to the next turn, average and moving speed. The device is robust, water proof and runs off AA batteries a real bonus if you are a full value rider and take part in some of the longer Scottish events. 2x Duracell’s last about 12 hours to 14 hours.


Good rechargeables like Eneloops or Vapex will last upwards of 20 hours. Lithium "disposables" even longer.


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## PpPete (14 May 2013)

Another useful tip....on the Etrex models like the Vista HCx- and might work on the newer ones too
They have a mini USB port for data transfer, but will also take power this way. 
If you want a permanent re-assuringly backlit screen during the night hours, but don't want to waste battery during the day by un-necessary backlighting, just plug in a cache battery or even one of those little "emergency" phone chargers that run off additional AA cells.


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## PoweredByVeg (14 May 2013)

Garmin Etrex 20, takes AA's, turn by turn navigating, long battery life. Check out the YACF forum GPS section and LEL section


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## Sixpackorkeg (14 May 2013)

PpPete said:


> Another Vista HCx user here.
> .. although if I was buying new now it would likely be an Etrex 20 or 30.
> 
> The GPX files supplied on the LEL site are "Tracks".
> ...





Loving all this advice, so just checking....given a choice, the etrex is a better option? Gives more turn by turn type help?


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## Sixpackorkeg (14 May 2013)

ACS said:


> Sixpackorkeg
> 
> I'm not really in a position to make a comparison between the Vista HCX and other Garmin products apart from the obvious pricing structure. I purchased the HCX in 2010 having taken a lot of advice from the Audax community. My issue being when I’m tired I get disorientated fairly easily and I wanted a device to stop me from ‘going scenic.’ I was finding the stress of trying to navigate using the route guide was spoiling my experience and wanted something to help with the decision making process.
> 
> ...



Haha. I'm a Geordie in Polmont !
Your pitch is exactly where my head is at, don't want to think too much about the navigation.
Have asked another user for their views on etrex, as that sounds like it gives a bit more turn by turn instruction but yours doesn't ? Or am I misunderstanding ?


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## ACS (14 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Haha. I'm a Geordie in Polmont !
> Your pitch is exactly where my head is at, don't want to think too much about the navigation.
> Have asked another user for their views on etrex, as that sounds like it gives a bit more turn by turn instruction but yours doesn't ? Or am I misunderstanding ?


 
Last word. Link to the conversation I had with @ColinJ about this very subject. Hope it is of interest.


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## ColinJ (14 May 2013)

ACS said:


> Last word. Link to the conversation I had with @ColinJ about this very subject. Hope it is of interest.


Hiya! 

I am still using my Etrex, 6 or 7 years after buying it. It is long-in-the-tooth now but perfectly usable and you can pick them up cheap on eBay if you don't want to buy something more sophisticated and expensive.


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## tubbycyclist (14 May 2013)

Here is a good resource for all things GPS and audax. It has some good stuff on routing options and the differences between various models.


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## GrumpyGregry (14 May 2013)

buy an etrex (mine's a 20 used to be an HCx) stick opencyclemaps on it, plot your chosen path as a track, download it on the etrex, follow the line on the screen. I've never got more than 20metres or so off track in five years. turn directions and course points are helpful but I've not ever really found them necessary and have given up on them apart from when using the "Where to?" in-built route planning on the device when my plan has changed. ymmv.


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## bobcat (14 May 2013)

Probably been asked before, but can I use an etrex to record ride distance for d.i.y. audax validation?


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## ACS (14 May 2013)

bobcat said:


> Probably been asked before, but can I use an etrex to record ride distance for d.i.y. audax validation?


 
Yes you can. Some guidance can be found >> here <<


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## Sixpackorkeg (14 May 2013)

GregCollins said:


> buy an etrex (mine's a 20 used to be an HCx) stick opencyclemaps on it, plot your chosen path as a track, download it on the etrex, follow the line on the screen. I've never got more than 20metres or so off track in five years. turn directions and course points are helpful but I've not ever really found them necessary and have given up on them apart from when using the "Where to?" in-built route planning on the device when my plan has changed. ymmv.



Can gpx files be loaded straight onto the unit?


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## ColinJ (14 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Can gpx files be loaded straight onto the unit?


Yes.

You will need some software to do it. I use MemoryMap (commercial mapping program) but you could download EasyGPS free and use that.


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## PpPete (15 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Loving all this advice, so just checking....given a choice, the etrex is a better option? Gives more turn by turn type help?


is it a better option ? I don't know, it's all I've used. Not perfect by any means, but most of the shortcomings have well documented work-arounds



Sixpackorkeg said:


> Can gpx files be loaded straight onto the unit?


Yes. Many of the free online mapping sites enable that if you have downloaded the free Garmin Communicator plug in.
Or use the Mapsource/Basecamp software that comes with the Etrex (I think you can also download Basecamp for free)


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## bobcat (15 May 2013)

ACS said:


> Yes you can. Some guidance can be found >> here <<


Thank-you.


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## Sixpackorkeg (15 May 2013)

PpPete said:


> is it a better option ? I don't know, it's all I've used. Not perfect by any means, but most of the shortcomings have well documented work-arounds
> 
> 
> Yes. Many of the free online mapping sites enable that if you have downloaded the free Garmin Communicator plug in.
> Or use the Mapsource/Basecamp software that comes with the Etrex (I think you can also download Basecamp for free)



Hi Pete
Sorry to be a pain, just double checking....your etrex give turn by turn guidance or is it the follow the crumbs kind of stuff.


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## ColinJ (15 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Hi Pete
> Sorry to be a pain, just double checking....your etrex give turn by turn guidance or is it the follow the crumbs kind of stuff.


They can be used either way, but I consider the breadcrumb trail vastly superior because you can see way in advance where you will be going and get ready for it. When I tried turn by turn, I managed to get the arrow pointing the wrong way for a few metres and then it told me to do a u-turn!


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## PpPete (15 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Hi Pete
> Sorry to be a pain, just double checking....your etrex give turn by turn guidance or is it the follow the crumbs kind of stuff.


 
Both.
The track gives me the breadcrumb trail. The way I set up the route (which Garmin would no doubt say is the least efficient way) gives me the turn-by-turn. I once (and only once) tried to let unit do the navigating for me. Now I'd rather spend the time getting a "routepoint" corresponding with each instruction on the audax routesheet. Having both track & route is as close to foolproof as I can make it.
There are some very clear instructions on one way to do this on arallsopp's youtube channel.


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## frank9755 (16 May 2013)

The OP already has a 705 so there's no point in him downgrading to an eTrex! 
A 705 is ideal - just needs a battery pack.


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## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

frank9755 said:


> The OP already has a 705 so there's no point in him downgrading to an eTrex!
> A 705 is ideal - just needs a battery pack.


Oops - I missed that, having started reading at the point that I was tagged by ACS above!  

Yes - nowt wrong with a 705!


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## GrumpyGregry (16 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Can gpx files be loaded straight onto the unit?


yes and you do not need special software to do it.
create you gpx file by any one of the gazillion ways
connect your gps (etrex) to pc via usb and bring it up in mass storage mode
copy gpx files to the approrpriate folder on gps.
disconnect gps and restart.
use as normal.


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## GrumpyGregry (16 May 2013)

frank9755 said:


> The OP already has a 705 so there's no point in him downgrading to an eTrex!
> A 705 is ideal - just needs a battery pack.


Mea culpa


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## Sixpackorkeg (16 May 2013)

frank9755 said:


> The OP already has a 705 so there's no point in him downgrading to an eTrex!
> A 705 is ideal - just needs a battery pack.



Frank. Never loaded anything into my 705 before . Is it easy ? Do you happen to know if the gpx files for LEL will then signpost me for the whole route ?
Am truly rubbish at the techy stuff.


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## Sixpackorkeg (16 May 2013)

frank9755 said:


> The OP already has a 705 so there's no point in him downgrading to an eTrex!
> A 705 is ideal - just needs a battery pack.


Oh and do you know if I need to load up some decent maps? Never struck me as much good when I took a mosey at the ones on there


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## ColinJ (16 May 2013)

You shouldn't need to worry about mapping on the GPS - just do what it tells you to do! My Etrex doesn't have any mapping capability whatsoever but I have ridden about 25,000 km with it and never got lost; I just follow the line on the screen.


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## frank9755 (20 May 2013)

Just do what Greg says, above. 
And Colin sums it up. The Garmin maps don't have much detail but they are perfectly adequate for navigating as you don't need much. Basically you are just following the pink line which will tell you which turnings to take.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 May 2013)

pink. the pink line is good. the pink line is your friend.

I've had an Etrex SD card go awol during a battery swap. Even with next to no mapping the little pink line got me to my destination.


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## ColinJ (20 May 2013)

My line is grey. The line colour doesn't matter - just follow the line!

Unless there is a massive sink hole in the road ahead ...







In which case -_ find an alternative route!_


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## Sixpackorkeg (25 May 2013)

Hopefully a last daft question ? Am guessing the LEL gpx files have lots of waypoints... Is there a limit to how much I can load into my 705 ? Am thinking I might buy a second hand etrex too so that I have backup.... Sound sensible?


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## ColinJ (25 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Hopefully a last daft question ? Am guessing the LEL gpx files have lots of waypoints... Is there a limit to how much I can load into my 705 ? Am thinking I might buy a second hand etrex too so that I have backup.... Sound sensible?


Have a look at Frank Kinlan's Dummies Guide to the Garmin Edge 705 - that should sort you out.

You shouldn't need a backup device, but if you want one - nickg is selling his Etrex H here.


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## Sixpackorkeg (26 May 2013)

Hi Frank
Darn, just saw your reply ref te etrex h. Have just bought an etrex vista for 30 quid on eBay. U reckon that'll sort me as a backup?



ColinJ said:


> Have a look at Frank Kinlan's Dummies Guide to the Garmin Edge 705 - that should sort you out.
> 
> You shouldn't need a backup device, but if you want one - nickg is selling his Etrex H here.


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## Sixpackorkeg (26 May 2013)

Whoops!! I meant Colin.....


ColinJ said:


> Have a look at Frank Kinlan's Dummies Guide to the Garmin Edge 705 - that should sort you out.
> 
> You shouldn't need a backup device, but if you want one - nickg is selling his Etrex H here.


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## ColinJ (26 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Hi Frank Colin
> Darn, just saw your reply ref te etrex h. Have just bought an etrex vista for 30 quid on eBay. U reckon that'll sort me as a backup?


Blimey, £30 is cheap!


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## frank9755 (27 May 2013)

It is, but still not necessary, though! There are many things on your bike more likely to fail than a GPS.


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## PpPete (30 May 2013)

Sixpackorkeg said:


> Hi Frank
> Darn, just saw your reply ref te etrex h. Have just bought an etrex vista for 30 quid on eBay. U reckon that'll sort me as a backup?


 
Etrex Vista? Plain old Vista or one with letters after it's name / ability to insert SD card ?
I'll be using a Vista HCx as my primary navigation aid apart from the routesheet. No need for any further backup.


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## Sixpackorkeg (26 Jun 2013)

Plain old vista, no card.
Just got round to trying to sort it. My son loaded the files and it shows all northbound but only s1 of the southbound. Will that mean the memory is full ?



PpPete said:


> Etrex Vista? Plain old Vista or one with letters after it's name / ability to insert SD card ?
> I'll be using a Vista HCx as my primary navigation aid apart from the routesheet. No need for any further backup.


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## Sixpackorkeg (26 Jun 2013)

Hi frank
Got my ass in gear and loaded the gpx's onto my 705. Look like they're on there....LEL n1, n2 etc 
Do I just select one and then click navigate ?
Never used it for navigation in my life!


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## frank9755 (27 Jun 2013)

I think it is:
Training / Courses / LEL n1 / Do Course

However I always use TCX files as courses. If you are using GPX files it might be slightly different. I can't remember as not done it for a couple of years. I expect someone else will be along shortly who can explain that bit.


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## Sixpackorkeg (30 Jun 2013)

Thanks Frank. Will pop another post in with some new questions.



frank9755 said:


> Just do what Greg says, above.
> And Colin sums it up. The Garmin maps don't have much detail but they are perfectly adequate for navigating as you don't need much. Basically you are just following the pink line which will tell you which turnings to take.


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