# Another good reason to not adopt disc brakes on road bikes.



## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

I have a Hybrid with hydraulic disc brakes. It’s the lowest mileage / KJ bike in my collection. The brake pads have worn out, so I had to get new ones.







Wanting to keep the same parts it came with, I bought these bad boys. With BC discount, nearly 30 quids worth. I think I’ll stick to rim brakes on my road bikes.


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2018)

So how many miles did they do and how many miles would two pairs of rim blocks do, at what cost?


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## Sea of vapours (24 Mar 2018)

Globalti said:


> So how many miles did they do and how many miles would two pairs of rim blocks do, at what cost?


It's not even that simple since you also need to factor in how much longer the wheels last as a result of the rims not being being worn by braking, and then offset that by wear on the rotors.


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## Levo-Lon (24 Mar 2018)

You made the mistake of going main dealer...you'll learn


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## Tim Hall (24 Mar 2018)

I was fully in support until you used the phrase "these bad boys".


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## StuAff (24 Mar 2018)

The unfortunate fact is that rim brake pads destroy rims over time. There is no way around it. Whereas buying manufacturer branded disc pads & paying over the odds is…


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2018)

The wheels can last forever.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

meta lon said:


> You made the mistake of going main dealer...you'll learn


They cost pretty much the same everywhere. If you want to put up with non original parts, you can do it cheaper, but I didn’t want to do that.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

Globalti said:


> So how many miles did they do and how many miles would two pairs of rim blocks do, at what cost?


Less than 5000 miles I reckon, I’ve done 3 times that on rim blocks that cost a tenner.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

Sea of vapours said:


> It's not even that simple since you also need to factor in how much longer the wheels last as a result of the rims not being being worn by braking, and then offset that by wear on the rotors.


I’ve had wheels fail, for reasons other than rim wear, in fact even if you factor in the replacement rims on a rim braked bike ( usually a ratio of 2 rears for 1 front ) the rim brake set ups still come in far cheaper than the disc brakes. You have to remember that the brake discs don’t last that long either.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (24 Mar 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> You have to remember that the brake discs don’t last that long either.



Really? I hadn't considered that as isn't there plenty of metal on the discs? How many miles from a disc then?


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## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Really? I hadn't considered that as isn't there plenty of metal on the discs? How many miles from a disc then?


I judge it by how long until I have to start trueing them every five minutes, The Hybrid takes some punishment, but I’ve had less than 8000 miles from a pair of discs before now. I’d be very disappointed to see less than 25000 miles from a rear rim.


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## dave r (24 Mar 2018)

Having been comprehensively out braked by a rider on a disc braked bike on a sportive recently I'd happily pay a bit extra for the better braking.


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## Sea of vapours (24 Mar 2018)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> How many miles from a disc then?



I replaced my first set after 18,700km. That was based on the front being at the minimum remaining thickness and the rear not too far off. Over that distance I'd gone through five sets of disc pads on the front and two on the back. This is entirely on roads, all year round riding - all these parts wear an awful lot faster off-road, I've no doubt. The discs had never been trued but were still true at the point of replacement.


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## Racing roadkill (24 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> Having been comprehensively out braked by a rider on a disc braked bike on a sportive recently I'd happily pay a bit extra for the better braking.


It’s not a ‘bit’ though, it’s probably 5 times as much. If someone wants to hoof themselves in the nuts to that tune, to try and be a hero in a Sportive, they are welcome to it. I guess that’s why off road / Hybrids have flown under the radar, they tend not to get the miles, to make it such an issue, and the vastly superior braking performance is more palatable.


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## Slick (24 Mar 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Less than 5000 miles I reckon, I’ve done 3 times that on rim blocks that cost a tenner.


5000 miles is a lot more than I got from mine, very lucky to get anywhere near half that for the original and less for the sintered replacement.


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## Brandane (24 Mar 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> usually a ratio of 2 rears for 1 front



Am I reading that correctly - you get through 2 rear rims for every front rim? 
I've never done a high enough mileage on any rim to have to replace it. But as I tend to put more braking force on the front rim compared to the back (probably about 65/35, in keeping with my motorbike training) I would expect the front to wear quicker than the rear. Or does the extra crud picked up by the rear wheel cause that much extra wear?


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## NorthernDave (24 Mar 2018)

I've got disc brakes on all my bikes and wouldn't even consider buying a bike with rim brakes now unless I was in the market for something outrageously exotic.

I've had rim brakes bikes in the past and even after forking out for brake upgrades (including £20+ Swissstop blocks) they were never quite good enough, especially in the wet.

Case in point, today I've been out for a ride with a couple of mates. The roads were filthy in places and the unrelenting grinding from one of lads bike every time he used his rim brakes was horrible to listen to, compounded by him struggling to slow down which led to him being very cautious on descents, while my discs just worked, virtually silently, time after time.

Money well spent in my book.


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## Donger (24 Mar 2018)

Still too early for me to offer an authoritative comparison, but I have two Ridgeback Panorama touring bikes. One with rim brakes and a new one with discs.
Although I loved the old one, I chewed through front and rear rim brake pads at least twice a year and a set of rims lasted me about two years, even though I only do about 3,000 miles per year. Being a super-heavyweight rider, I had the stopping distance of an oil tanker.

I'm hoping the disc brakes last me a bit longer and save me money on replacement rims. But even if they end up costing me more, I'm already finding that they have transformed my ride experience. I do not ride fast or tend to enter sportives or anything like that .... just regular hilly club rides and audaxes, carrying a lot of weight. I was getting tired of having to jam my brakes on harder and much earlier than everyone else I ride with when descending hills, and tired of the sniggers at the squealing noise they made, alerting everyone to my approach before I ever came into sight. The discs are just so much grippier, quieter, and they take less effort and don't leave me having to decide which hedge to aim for if I meet a car coming the other way on a narrow descent. 

I am a convert, however the price comparisons stack up. Still early days, though, and I'm sure I will encounter things I've not yet thought of, but I'm 100% sure at the moment that it will be the disc bike I'll be taking to the Vosges this year. Can't wait to let loose on some long descents instead of cramping my hands up for minutes on end struggling to keep the speed down.


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## dave r (24 Mar 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> It’s not a ‘bit’ though, it’s probably 5 times as much. If someone wants to hoof themselves in the nuts to that tune, to try and be a hero in a Sportive, they are welcome to it. I guess that’s why off road / Hybrids have flown under the radar, they tend not to get the miles, to make it such an issue, and the vastly superior braking performance is more palatable.



Who's being a hero? Less than a mile from the finish in a giratory system and the lights changed when we were on top of them, I was genuinely impressed by how quickly he stopped. I'm not in the market for a new bike at the moment but when I am I will be looking at disc braked bikes. I'm small, light and not one of the demon late brakers, I cover between four and five thousand miles a year and on rim brakes I expect to get more than a year on a brake block and seven or eight years before rim wear becomes a problem and I'm thinking that on disc brakes I'll get good life from components.


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## Drago (24 Mar 2018)

I've never worn out a rim, and the longest I've currently owned a rim brakes bike is 22 years. Having said that, I read the road/terrain well ahead and I'm very light on the brakes as a consequence. Ditto in the car, where brakes tend to corrode to death before I wear them out.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Mar 2018)

My disc brakes are up to 34,000 miles on the original discs. They last plenty long enough. Most I get out of rims on my rim braked bike is about 18,000 miles.


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## mjr (24 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> Having been comprehensively out braked by a rider on a disc braked bike on a sportive recently I'd happily pay a bit extra for the better braking.


<suits-you>Did you take him roughly from behind, sir? Did you, sir? Did you?</suits-you>

Bike disc brakes are rubbish because the discs are too exposed to the elements, the pads are too small and they need elaborate fork fixings. If you want reliable all-weather low-maintenance braking, do it properly and get hub brakes.


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## dave r (25 Mar 2018)

I didn't realise this was such an emotive subject.


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## Dirk (25 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> Having been comprehensively out braked by a rider on a disc braked bike on a sportive recently I'd happily pay a bit extra for the better braking.


If I can get the back end of my Focus Cayo off the deck under heavy braking at pretty much any speed - fastest I can recall was about 48mph down hill - how much better braking do I need? It's running caliper brakes; Ultegra with Swisstop greens.


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## Brandane (25 Mar 2018)

Dirk said:


> If I can get the back end of my Focus Cayo off the deck under heavy braking at pretty much any speed - fastest I can recall was about 48mph down hill - how much better braking do I need? It's running caliper brakes; Ultegra with Swisstop greens.


But..... Just think how much easier it would be to put yourself over the bars with DISC brakes!
I have 2 bikes with hydraulic disc brakes, and 3 with rim brakes. I am undecided as to which I prefer. Discs possibly shade it, but it certainly isn't a deal breaker when it comes to buying a new bike.
PS.... OP, still wondering how you get through 2 rear rims to 1 front. I can't possibly STILL be on your ignore list surely? . Maybe better that way.....


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## Turdus philomelos (25 Mar 2018)

Owing to the last few months weather conditions I have replaced two set of rim brake blokes, plus rear wheel due to rim wear.

More expensive replacement than disc pads.


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## booze and cake (25 Mar 2018)

Brandane said:


> Am I reading that correctly - you get through 2 rear rims for every front rim?
> I've never done a high enough mileage on any rim to have to replace it. But as I tend to put more braking force on the front rim compared to the back (probably about 65/35, in keeping with my motorbike training) I would expect the front to wear quicker than the rear. Or does the extra crud picked up by the rear wheel cause that much extra wear?



I've worn through 4 wheelsets I've had since new, and the rear has worn out first on every one. I was a bit puzzled by this at first because as you say the front takes most of the braking force, and I only have Campag single pivot rear brakes which are significantly weaker than the dual pivot fronts. This must be due to the extra crap thrown onto the wheel. If you were to do random look at most bikes the rear wheel is nearly always dirtier. I don't have any mudguards on my bikes so that surely increases the wear rate on the rear too.


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## Dirk (25 Mar 2018)

booze and cake said:


> I don't have any mudguards on my bikes so that surely increases the wear rate on the rear too.


I would have thought that mudguards would increase rim wear.


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## booze and cake (25 Mar 2018)

Not having a front mudguard is obviously going to throw more crud onto the rear though innit


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## screenman (25 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> I didn't realise this was such an emotive subject.



Money is involved.


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## dave r (25 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> Money is involved.



That is true


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> I've never worn out a rim, and the longest I've currently owned a rim brakes bike is 22 years. Having said that, I read the road/terrain well ahead and I'm very light on the brakes as a consequence. Ditto in the car, where brakes tend to corrode to death before I wear them out.



I'm struggling to understand why so many cyclists get through rims at the rate they do. I can only assume they enjoy expending more energy than necessary, by excessive use of the brakes to convert all that kinetic energy they had to produce in the first place, back into heat. Given that every bit of forward motion on a bike is only achieved through the rider's efforts, I also try to make the absolute minimum use of the brakes possible. OK, on a descent, braking may be necessary, but a lot of the time on a level surface, if you anticipate properly your speed can be controlled without much need to use the brakes at all. Like Drago, I don't wear car brakes out in no time either, for the same reason. Turning energy into waste heat is the last thing I want to do, no matter what sort of wheeled transport I am using.


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## dave r (25 Mar 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm struggling to understand why so many cyclists get through rims at the rate they do. I can only assume they enjoy expending more energy than necessary, by excessive use of the brakes to convert all that kinetic energy they had to produce in the first place, back into heat. Given that every bit of forward motion on a bike is only achieved through the rider's efforts, I also try to make the absolute minimum use of the brakes possible. OK, on a descent, braking may be necessary, but a lot of the time on a level surface, if you anticipate properly your speed can be controlled without much need to use the brakes at all. Like Drago, I don't wear car brakes out in no time either, for the same reason. Turning energy into waste heat is the last thing I want to do, no matter what sort of wheeled transport I am using.



Me two, I don't remember it being talked about much before it was mentioned on here a few years ago. 25 years as a club rider and I can only remember it being talked about twice, once when I wore the rims out on my old Dawes, eight years old or more and very high mileage, and when one of the club lads had a front rim fail on his winter bike, a very old high mileage bike.


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## Tim Hall (25 Mar 2018)

Or they do more riding than you do, have thinner rims than you do, have more aggressive brake blocks than you do, ride in different conditions to yours. All of these, and more, are possible.


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## dave r (25 Mar 2018)

[QUOTE 5192910, member: 45"]Sram Apex rim blocks are £15 a pair.[/QUOTE]

I use koolstop salmon's


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## Smokin Joe (25 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> <suits-you>Did you take him roughly from behind, sir? Did you, sir? Did you?</suits-you>
> 
> Bike disc brakes are rubbish because the discs are too exposed to the elements, the pads are too small and they need elaborate fork fixings. If you want reliable all-weather low-maintenance braking, do it properly and get hub brakes.


Discs on bikes are no more exposed to the elements than they are on motorcycles, or even cars for that matter. Both of those have big fat tyres which throw up more crud than a skinny cycle tyre.


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## Pale Rider (25 Mar 2018)

I know some of you roadie fellas like Sram groupsets, but the moral of this tale is only buy a disc brake if it has the word 'Shimano' written on it.


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## dave r (25 Mar 2018)

[QUOTE 5192920, member: 45"]Yeah, the OP was choosing to replace with the brand matching the brakes, which is more expensive whether rim or disc.[/QUOTE]

I know, but I never do, I put Koolstop's on once I've worn out the original blocks.


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2018)

Those of you wondering why the rest of us get through brake blocks and rims so easily are obviously living somewhere flat(-tish)!

There are lots of descents that I do round here which would be impossible without heavy braking - a long stretch of 12+%, followed by a very tight hairpin bend, that kind of thing.

I made the mistake of putting mudguards on my best bike for the recent winter. I not only wore out a set of brake blocks in about 10 weeks of occasional riding, I also wore halfway through the rims of my best wheels too! 

I probably will not be buying another road bike in the near future but if/when I finally do, it will have disk brakes.


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## Heigue'r (25 Mar 2018)

I go through brake blocks at the rate of a set a month id say when commuting full time.Im back up to 100 kgs so a bit of force required to stop.I do commute from essex into central/west London.Anticipating the change of a traffic light or car/pedestrian that comes from nowhere is quite difficult.I would have to leave an hour earlier id say just to go easier on the brakes.Ive just noticed last week that my rear rim is starting to wear quite thin.I think im going to go for a disc braked bike next as I think it would better suit my needs and the conditions I ride in.If I rode in open countryside with no traffic lights,id happily buy a new set of wheels as I wouldn't be braking as much....


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## Moodyman (25 Mar 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I know some of you roadie fellas like Sram groupsets, but the moral of this tale is only buy a disc brake if it has the word 'Shimano' written on it.



You're not far from the truth there. I find Shimano disk brake pads are usually half the price (or less) of Avid/Sram pads.


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## smutchin (25 Mar 2018)

[QUOTE 5192910, member: 45"]Sram Apex rim blocks are £15 a pair.[/QUOTE]

I use SwissStop BXP which are £25.

That’s more than I spent on the replacement pads for my other bike that has disc brakes.


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## DRHysted (25 Mar 2018)

Price over safety?
I’ll stick with discs. 
(This is of course my opinion, but as it’s me that rides my bikes other opinions of what I choose to ride don’t count).


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2018)

PS To illustrate my point about descending scary hills ... Try going down Birchcliffe Road in Hebden Bridge without heavy use of brakes!


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## Drago (25 Mar 2018)

DRHysted said:


> Price over safety?
> I’ll stick with discs.
> (This is of course my opinion, but as it’s me that rides my bikes other opinions of what I choose to ride don’t count).



Some of my bikes are disc. Some are rim. I can lock the brakes and endo all of them, wet or dry. I'm the only person who rides my bikes, so I make sure they all work properly.

I have had disc brakes that were scary bad. I have owned rim brakes that felt like someone had shoved a broom handle in the spokes. There's no automatic correlation either way. Wear is indeed a cited advantage of disc brakes, but then I've never worn out a rim yet either, and I'm a very heavy chap.

Methinks the case is overstated in all areas of this particular debate, both pro disc and pro rim.


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## Alan O (25 Mar 2018)

One thing I've noticed recently is that when I'm riding in a group, I use my brakes a lot more than when I'm cycling alone - almost entirely for adjusting my distance from the cyclist in front. Annoyingly, I often seem to have to do it going downhill, as I appear to have more downhill momentum than others (which surely can't be anything to do with my body weight ).

On the subject of favourite brakes, I ride three bikes regularly - two road/touring bikes, one with calipers and one with cantilevers, and a mountain bike with hydraulic disks. And in most conditions I can lock the front wheel on any of them.

I do love the disk brakes for off-road, partly because they don't fade when the rims get muddy. But on road I think cantilevers are my number one choice (obviously out of the specific brakes I have, and I can't really make a generalization as I've only ever had one model of cantilever and one of disk brakes).


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## smutchin (25 Mar 2018)

Alan O said:


> when I'm riding in a group, I use my brakes a lot more than when I'm cycling alone - almost entirely for adjusting my distance from the cyclist in front



Using your brakes when riding in close formation is poor technique and a very good way to cause a crash.


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## Alan O (25 Mar 2018)

smutchin said:


> Using your brakes when riding in close formation is poor technique and a very good way to cause a crash.


It's not close-formation club-type rides, just a bunch of pootlers riding all variety of bikes and usually quite strung out. I just don't like getting too close to the cyclist in front, and I'm always aware if someone is close behind me.


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## smutchin (25 Mar 2018)

Alan O said:


> It's not close-formation club-type rides, just a bunch of pootlers riding all variety of bikes and usually quite strung out. I just don't like getting too close to the cyclist in front, and I'm always aware if someone is close behind me.



Still better to ease off the pedalling before you get that close rather than use the brakes. The other thing to do is move slightly sideways, out of the rider's slipstream - that'll slow you down surprisingly quickly.


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2018)

Alan O said:


> One thing I've noticed recently is that when I'm riding in a group, I use my brakes a lot more than when I'm cycling alone - almost entirely for adjusting my distance from the cyclist in front. Annoyingly, I often seem to have to do it going downhill, as I appear to have more downhill momentum than others (which surely can't be anything to do with my body weight ).


I noticed that on my forum ride yesterday. I weigh 2.5 stone more than my friend who was in front of me a lot of the time. I kept catching him up every time the road dipped downwards, even though I stopped pedalling.



smutchin said:


> Still better to ease off the pedalling before you get that close rather than use the brakes. The other thing to do is move slightly sideways, out of the rider's slipstream - that'll slow you down surprisingly quickly.


I tried that. It did slow down how quickly I caught him but several times I freewheeled past him when I hadn't braked to avoid catching up.


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## crazyjoe101 (25 Mar 2018)

My good bike has Ultegra rim brakes and I've never really felt that I'm lacking any braking power as if it's wet enough to start to reduce braking power then I am also not on the brakes as much because I don't want to lock a wheel or slide.
I do get tired of clearing the crud off the rims and pads on my winter bike though and I think for ease of maintenance I'd rather have rim brakes on that one, on my good bike I'd not see any difference 99% of the time.


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## Milzy (25 Mar 2018)

I don’t have a disk bike anymore but wish I did for the Fred Whitton. Nothing worse than going down 25% hills in the wet and you are squeezing both rin brakes so tight and they just fade.


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## booze and cake (25 Mar 2018)

ColinJ said:


> PS To illustrate my point about descending scary hills ... Try going down Birchcliffe Road in Hebden Bridge without heavy use of brakes!
> 
> View attachment 401464



Those hidden hairpins you have up there are evil and can indeed scare the bejesus out of you. I have only ridden in that part of the world once, when the TDF was in town in 2014, and I remember nearly having a trouser accident as a result of a terrifying double hairpin on Stocks Lane on the descent into Luddenden. Here; https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7...4!1sfVqceQSkzhmfL5UcqOiKcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'm still not sure how I did'nt come a massive cropper and go over the barriers that day. Stunning riding around there though, wish I had that on my doorstep, well jealous.


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2018)

booze and cake said:


> Those hidden hairpins you have up there are evil and can indeed scare the bejesus out of you. I have only ridden in that part of the world once, when the TDF was in town in 2014, and I remember nearly having a trouser accident as a result of a terrifying double hairpin on Stocks Lane on the descent into Luddenden. Here; https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7...4!1sfVqceQSkzhmfL5UcqOiKcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> I'm still not sure how I did'nt come a massive cropper and go over the barriers that day. Stunning riding around there though, wish I had that on my doorstep, well jealous.


Ha ha - yes, I know Stocks Lane well and can quite imagine your reaction to that! I had the opposite problem when I first rode it, in the other direction ... I struggled up to the first of the hairpins, having somehow convinced myself that it was the top of the climb. As the second hairpin unfolded though, I realised that I was only halfway up and it was getting steeper! I very nearly came to a dead stop and had to bust a gut to continue. (I put lower gears on my bike soon after that.)

You get a good view of the hairpins in this video ...



How fit are they!


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Mar 2018)

Milzy said:


> Nothing worse than going down 25% hills in the wet and you are squeezing both rin brakes so tight and they just fade.



I wouldn't descend a gradient that steep on a bike, simple as that - I'd walk down it - at least until I was near the bottom where there was less potential for momentum to build up. I have a relative who lives at the top of a steep gradient; not as much as 25% but probably not far off 15%. I used to visit on my 3-speed roadster with 26" steel rims. Unless I got a clear run turning into the road, pedalling furiously in Low gear, I'd have to walk up the last bit as it was a leg killer, and I would only ever ride down again, with great care, if the weather was completely dry. If it was at all wet, I would walk down, as the braking on steel rims was simply too poor to be able to reliably stop at the T-junction at the end of the road!
There's no shame in getting off your bike and tackling very steep descents on foot. It's better than crashing.


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## crazyjoe101 (25 Mar 2018)

Yeah, I've yet to walk my bike up a hill but I've walked it down a couple.


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## gaijintendo (25 Mar 2018)

I was useless at adjusting my bb7s, so much so, I replacd pads way too soon... 

I just stuck she first set of pads I ever owned back on my bike last week  so I'm fairly glad I thought they looked surprisingly beefy when i took the out.

Ymmv.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Discs on bikes are no more exposed to the elements than they are on motorcycles, or even cars for that matter. Both of those have big fat tyres which throw up more crud than a skinny cycle tyre.


Car discs are rather beefier than bike ones, plus they're on the inside of the wheel, not where neighbouring cars can knock them when parked.

Anyway, they're still much more exposed than hub brakes.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Mar 2018)

mjr said:


> Car discs are rather beefier than bike ones, plus they're on the inside of the wheel, not where neighbouring cars can knock them when parked.
> 
> Anyway, they're still much more exposed than hub brakes.


I can't see how a neighbouring car can knock a disc on either a cycle or motorcycle without first destroying the fork. And car discs are just as exposed to the elements as any other.


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## Drago (25 Mar 2018)

In a roundabout way, MJR touches on a good point. For all but uber high performance bikes, hub brakes are simple, very effective, extremely low maintenance, and unaffected by the weather, but never caught on. Only a few niche makers like Pashley or Cleland really embraced them. Strange.


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## screenman (25 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> In a roundabout way, MJR touches on a good point. For all but uber high performance bikes, hub brakes are simple, very effective, extremely low maintenance, and unaffected by the weather, but never caught on. Only a few niche makers like Pashley or Cleland really embraced them. Strange.




Can a hub brake get rid of heat well.


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> Can a hub brake get rid of heat well.


Aren't hub drag brakes fitted to tandems specifically so that a lot of the braking can be done in the hub to avoid the wheel rims overheating when braking on long descents?


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## smutchin (25 Mar 2018)

This is quite a good potted summary of the relative merits of disc vs rim vs drum brakes:
http://www.rodfordbuilt.co.uk/technical/2016/5/10/u6owaaam03xwzgq7fgm445mogfgao9


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## Drago (25 Mar 2018)

screenman said:


> Can a hub brake get rid of heat well.



Indeed they can. Plenty of smallish capacity motorbikes still use them quite adequately, and they have to manage mass and velocity far in excess of a bicycle.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't see how a neighbouring car can knock a disc on either a cycle or motorcycle without first destroying the fork. And car discs are just as exposed to the elements as any other.


Whereas two bikes parked next to each other can easily hook disks, or lean a fork or stay or pedal onto a disc!

Car discs are slightly sheltered by the car body. Not perfectly but more than on bikes.


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## Crankarm (26 Mar 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I know some of you roadie fellas like Sram groupsets, but the moral of this tale is only buy a disc brake if it has the word 'Shimano' written on it.



Or Hope.


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## Crankarm (26 Mar 2018)

Disc brakes every time now for me. Riding a fully loaded touring bike down a long long steep mountain descent definitely disc brakes ideally Shimano SLX and above or Hope brakes. Rim brakes are now such old inferior technology.


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## Randy Butternubs (26 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> Indeed they can. Plenty of smallish capacity motorbikes still use them quite adequately, and they have to manage mass and velocity far in excess of a bicycle.



Drum brakes stuck around on cheaper motorcycles for a long time but only on the rear which sees very little use, as on a bicycle. Nowadays even the cheap Chinese marques seem to be speccing discs front and rear.

I've owned a couple of motorbikes with front and rear drums but they were clunkers from the early 80s. The braking was truly shocking on both despite new pads and continuous fettling.

That's not to say they don't work for bicycles. I've been tempted to try them for a while now but I've been put off by the mixed opinions they generate.


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## Drago (26 Mar 2018)

Absolutely, most motorbikes and even scooters have gone disc. However, the question posed was can bicycle drums handle the heat, and motorcycles were cited purely as an example to show that they most assuredly can.

Discs on cars and motorbikes are brilliant, but they have mass and performance that makes the disc far better suited than the drum. The bicycle suffers neither of those, so it just seems odd that the drum never became more ubiquitous on bicycles. Probably comes down to the filthy lucre.


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## DCBassman (26 Mar 2018)

Anyone mix them up? Having read this thread, I might just put the Norco disc fork on the Scott...


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## si_c (26 Mar 2018)

Definitely a big disc brake convert, as a larger chap, the consistency of the braking in wet or dry weather is what I'm after.

As for pad wear, I get around 4000mi between pad replacement in summer and 2000 in winter. I use metallic pads. A replacement set costs around 15 quid for two sets using after market replacements.


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## ianrauk (26 Mar 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Anyone mix them up? Having read this thread, I might just put the Norco disc fork on the Scott...




I saw a bike only recently that had disc front and rim rear.


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## smutchin (26 Mar 2018)

I had a test ride of an Airnimal recently that had a rim brake at the front, disc brake at the rear. Weird. 

To be fair, it wasn’t a full production model - they were waiting on the new disc fork.


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## DCBassman (26 Mar 2018)

Might just try it, then.


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## nickAKA (26 Mar 2018)

dave r said:


> I didn't realise this was such an emotive subject.



Nothing divides opinion quite like stating an opinion.


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## si_c (26 Mar 2018)

nickAKA said:


> Nothing divides opinion quite like stating an opinion.


That's quite a divisive statement... If you're worried about such things, you should do what I do and carry a disclaimer around my neck.


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## jowwy (26 Mar 2018)

Try using carbon rims all year round with rim brakes. Then you will understand why some of us ride disc's


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## Tim Hall (26 Mar 2018)

jowwy said:


> Try using carbon rims all year round with rim brakes. Then you will understand why some of us ride disc's


You could say that's an argument against using inappropriate materials for wheel rim construction.


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## jowwy (26 Mar 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> You could say that's an argument against using inappropriate materials for wheel rim construction.


You could say that for any wheel that has rim that wears on use.....not just carbon


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## Brandane (26 Mar 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Rim brakes are now such old inferior technology.


Which might be an advantage, if you are touring in Outer Mongolia when your caliper piston seal or master cylinder calls it a day. Not that I have any intention of undertaking any such tour, but there are those who do.


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## Drago (26 Mar 2018)

jowwy said:


> You could say that for any wheel that has rim that wears on use.....not just carbon



But especially carbon.


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## fatjel (26 Mar 2018)

I mostly ride bikes with rim brakes .. Have 3 with discs don't ride them much
Never worn out a rim, ever .. The giant needed brake blocks after 8000 miles or so. 
Had new pads in two disc bikes , mtb has only done 300 miles carry new pads with me just in case
Discs are heavy , wear quicker and make that horrible scraping noise that says you'd be going much faster on rim brakes.
Is fair to say I prefer rim brakes . only my opinon of course


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## jowwy (26 Mar 2018)

fatjel said:


> I mostly ride bikes with rim brakes .. Have 3 with discs don't ride them much
> Never worn out a rim, ever .. The giant needed brake blocks after 8000 miles or so.
> Had new pads in two disc bikes , mtb has only done 300 miles carry new pads with me just in case
> Discs are heavy , wear quicker and make that horrible scraping noise that says you'd be going much faster on rim brakes.
> Is fair to say I prefer rim brakes . only my opinon of course


Never heard a scraping noise coming from my discs and my disc braked Ti weighs less than my rim braked Ti.....so win win for me


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## Randy Butternubs (26 Mar 2018)

Drago said:


> Absolutely, most motorbikes and even scooters have gone disc. However, the question posed was can bicycle drums handle the heat, and motorcycles were cited purely as an example to show that they most assuredly can.



That's a good point, although I think tandem drag brakes have a large heat sink sticking out the side that normal bicycle drum brakes lack.

Still, the heat argument does seem like a bit of a red herring. It isn't like bicycle rim or disc brakes are famed for their ability to shed heat; people worry about tyres blowing off the rim from overheating with rim brakes and with the fluid boiling or plastic parts melting beyond repair with disc brakes.

It does seem a bit odd that drums are as niche as they are - I've never even seen one.


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## si_c (26 Mar 2018)

jowwy said:


> Never heard a scraping noise coming from my discs and my disc braked Ti weighs less than my rim braked Ti.....so win win for me


Same, my disc brakes are totally silent in operation, whether riding or braking. If they are making a noise, I'd suggest they are improperly setup, in the same way that rim brakes can.

In fact, I've found that overall Discs are slightly quieter than rim brakes, plus I don't need to keep cleaning the pads and rims after each wet ride.


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## DCBassman (26 Mar 2018)

Even the battered old Norco I rescued from the tip has silent discs. Mind you they're not very good brakes either...


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## Pale Rider (26 Mar 2018)

ianrauk said:


> I saw a bike only recently that had disc front and rim rear.



Some cheapie Chinese ebikes used to have a disc front and rim rear brake because the older design hub motors couldn't take a disc.


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## Smokin Joe (26 Mar 2018)

Randy Butternubs said:


> It does seem a bit odd that drums are as niche as they are - I've never even seen one.


They're probably a bit on the heavy side compared to rim or disc brakes.


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## Crankarm (26 Mar 2018)

Brandane said:


> Which might be an advantage, if you are touring in Outer Mongolia when your caliper piston seal or master cylinder calls it a day. Not that I have any intention of undertaking any such tour, but there are those who do.



Of the contributors here, I wouldn't have put you down as a Luddite.


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## Brandane (26 Mar 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Of the contributors here, I wouldn't have put you down as a Luddite.


You get like the people you hang about on a cycle forum with. God help me!


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## hatler (26 Mar 2018)

It's a shame Mavic aren't making ceramic rims in road sizes any more. Rims don't wear out. Nor do you get covered in black alloy gunk when handling the wheel.


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## Randy Butternubs (26 Mar 2018)

hatler said:


> It's a shame Mavic aren't making ceramic rims in road sizes any more. Rims don't wear out. *Nor do you get covered in black alloy gunk when handling the wheel.*



God damn I hate that stuff. Didn't realise ceramic rims stopped it. Don't Rigida still make some?

...

Looks like they do - the Rigida Grizzly (19mm internal width). Pricey though at £70; I usually only spend about £30 on a rim.


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## Bodhbh (27 Mar 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Anyone mix them up? Having read this thread, I might just put the Norco disc fork on the Scott...



I ran with front disc, back v-brake on my Roadrat for a while. It was an old frame and you couldn't run a rack and discs without some sort of bodging with spacers. Worked fine, not much to say about it - the breaking was better at the front and modulated differently but like most things you get used to it.


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## DCBassman (27 Mar 2018)

Having checked again, the Norco fork is a no-go...


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## confusedcyclist (27 Mar 2018)

£30?? Even my avid brand names can be had for a tenner http://www.wiggle.co.uk/avid-juicybb7-pair-of-disc-brake-pads-1/


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## alecstilleyedye (27 Mar 2018)

my old commuter used koolstop salmons rim blocks (with shimano tiara callipers)

my new commuter uses tektro disc brakes

over the same commute (64km 4 times a week), it's obvious that the disc brakes are no better than the koolstops in the dry, but are better in the wet. they seem to wear down less too. the disc brake pads are more expensive, but i don't expect to go through a rear wheel rim every year now…


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## hatler (27 Mar 2018)

Randy Butternubs said:


> God damn I hate that stuff. Didn't realise ceramic rims stopped it. Don't Rigida still make some?
> 
> ...
> 
> Looks like they do - the Rigida Grizzly (19mm internal width). Pricey though at £70; I usually only spend about £30 on a rim.


Yup, pricey, but they last way more than twice as long (presuming you don't ding them). Sadly the Grizzly is not the rim for my bike.


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## Pumpkin the robot (28 Mar 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Anyone mix them up? Having read this thread, I might just put the Norco disc fork on the Scott...



I put a disc on the front of my commuting bike. My main reason was for the better stopping in the wet, but also rim wear. I have 3 perfectly good rear wheels, and 3 worn fronts. I guess I should just replace the front wheel, rather than buying different wheel sets!


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## Shut Up Legs (13 Jun 2019)

I'm considering buying a new road bike sometime in the next few months, and was pondering the merits of rim vs disc brakes. I read this article by Paul Allen of the Harris Cyclery (of Sheldon Harris fame): https://www.sheldonbrown.com/disc-brakes.html
It gives a very thorough list of the advantages and disadvantages of disc brakes. I must admit that I was put off disc brakes a bit when I got to the list of disadvantages of disc brakes.


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## Blue Hills (13 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> Case in point, today I've been out for a ride with a couple of mates. The roads were filthy in places and the unrelenting grinding from one of lads bike every time he used his rim brakes was horrible to listen to, compounded by him struggling to slow down which led to him being very cautious on descents, while my discs just worked, virtually silently, time after time.
> k.


Were his brakes making that noise at the beginning of the ride?


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## Blue Hills (13 Jun 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I made the mistake of putting mudguards on my best bike for the recent winter. I not only wore out a set of brake blocks in about 10 weeks of occasional riding, I also wore halfway through the rims of my best wheels too!
> 
> I probably will not be buying another road bike in the near future but if/when I finally do, it will have disk brakes.



Mm

What will taking your front mudguard off do to the headset colin?

On rim brake "problems" and noise I can't help but wonder if some folks aren't keeping their rims and pads clean.

If I did lots of offroad I'd consider discs, but I don't.

The most teeth grinding noises I have ever heard have come from misbehaving discs.


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## Blue Hills (13 Jun 2019)

jowwy said:


> You could say that for any wheel that has rim that wears on use.....not just carbon


Then why did you specifically mention your carbon?


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## NorthernDave (13 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Were his brakes making that noise at the beginning of the ride?



No, the grinding under braking started within a couple of miles of us setting off though.


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## dave r (13 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> No, the grinding under braking started within a couple of miles of us setting off though.



The question is, why were his brakes grinding? I'm on rim brakes and my brakes don't grind. The other question is, why do people get through rims so quick? I've always used rim brakes and I've never changed a rim, I usually find a wheel is seven or eight years old before rim wear becomes a concern, I'm doing 4 - 5000 miles a year split over two bikes.


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## ianrauk (13 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I'm considering buying a new road bike sometime in the next few months, and was pondering the merits of rim vs disc brakes. I read this article by Paul Allen of the Harris Cyclery (of Sheldon Harris fame): https://www.sheldonbrown.com/disc-brakes.html
> It gives a very thorough list of the advantages and disadvantages of disc brakes. I must admit that I was put off disc brakes a bit when I got to the list of disadvantages of disc brakes.




The way I see it.
Rim brakes, I am replacing rims every 18 months. With disc brakes. The rims are lasting.... forever.
I feel more confident with disc brakes in the wet
They cause far less black gunk mess in the wet.
Disc brake pads last a year where as rim brakes pads last a couple of months.
I find no difference in weight or handling of the bike between rim and discs.

For me it's a no brainer. I can't see any disadvantages. 

Though, I do love my rimmed braked bike and won't ever get rid of that.


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## Blue Hills (13 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> No, the grinding under braking started within a couple of miles of us setting off though.


If so soon maybe the first time he braked properly then.
Could well have been simple poor maintenance/not cleaning pad and rims.


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## NorthernDave (13 Jun 2019)

dave r said:


> The question is, why were his brakes grinding? I'm on rim brakes and my brakes don't grind. The other question is, why do people get through rims so quick, I've always used rim brakes and I've never changed a rim, I usually find a wheel is seven or eight years old before rim wear becomes a concern.



It was purely the muck, etc picked up off the roads. He cleaned the rims and brakes off when we stopped and that temporarily sorted it, but it was soon back again.


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## si_c (13 Jun 2019)

ianrauk said:


> The way I see it.
> Rim brakes, I am replacing rims every 18 months. With disc brakes. The rims are lasting.... forever.
> I feel more confident with disc brakes in the wet
> They cause far less black gunk mess in the wet.
> ...


Indeed, I've got a number of bikes, rim and disc braked, and the advantages of discs are evident throughout - the article is a little old I think in some of the disadvantages. For me the only downside I've had is that the spokes on the front wheel on my most commonly used disc braked bike have started to brake sooner than on other bikes - after about 10k miles. I've recently rebuilt it with new spokes and the same rim - partly that was down to me not building the wheel as well as I could have.

The biggest advantage is the consistent braking - they brake the same wet or dry. They offer both more control as well as needing less force to brake hard.

I don't see myself buying another rim braked road bike at any point in the future.


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## rivers (13 Jun 2019)

If it's wet, disc brakes every time. In the dry, it depends what I'm doing. Normal road riding, I'm on my summer bike with rim brakes. Bit of off-road, it will be on the CX bike with discs. Even if it cost £30 for a new set of disc pads (and I've seen a lot cheaper than that), it costs me £25 for swiss stop pads for my rim brake bike. It's just a part of maintenance really, and I go through a set every 12-18 months maybe. Hardly breaking the bank


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## dave r (13 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> It was purely the muck, etc picked up off the roads. He cleaned the rims and brakes off when we stopped and that temporarily sorted it, but it was soon back again.



It must have been an exceptionaliy mucky ride.


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## Blue Hills (13 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> It was purely the muck, etc picked up off the roads. He cleaned the rims and brakes off when we stopped and that temporarily sorted it, but it was soon back again.


In two miles?

As Dave says the roads must have been incredibly mucky - more mucky than I'd expect anyone to be riding around on a road bike.

I had some rim brake issue recently as colin can attest - but that was because we were going across salter fell where the road gave out and we were walking through churned earth - and I had set my rear V brake up particularly close to the rim. Soon sorted with a quick wipe when we actually got back onto something that resembled a road. Once had a very short term issue with some magura rim brakes after straying off road but again they are set very very close by default. In over 20 years of being back into cycling those are the only two (and very soon sorted) episodes I can remember.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Jun 2019)

The only rim braked bike left in my stable is the Brompton. This wet weather has reminded me how shoot rim brakes are in comparison. I can't see myself buying another rim braked biked ever.


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## Racing roadkill (13 Jun 2019)

I find it hilarious that people think that their tyres suddenly increase their traction when they use disc brakes.


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## mustang1 (13 Jun 2019)

Also need to factor in the time required to replace rim brake pads and then eventually the wheels. 

All things considered I like hydro disks. But for road bikes I have a slight preference for rim brakes despite the advantages mentioned above. (I have both rim and disk brake road bikes).


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## Smudge (13 Jun 2019)

Whether disk or rim brakes are better, is totally dependant on how you use your bike.
Ride in all weathers, commute, do big mileage, or ride off road a lot, then obviously disk brakes are a win. If you're only a fair weather recreational rider and dont do big mileage, then rim brakes are better. They are cheaper, lighter and easier maintenance.


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## ColinJ (13 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Mm
> 
> What will taking your front mudguard off do to the headset colin?


You misunderstood me... I wasn't suggesting that it would be better to ride in bad weather without mudguards, I was suggesting that I should have put the mudguards on a much cheaper, more rugged bike so I wasn't so bothered about wearing its rims out! I paid over £300 for the best bike's wheels and I almost wore the front one out in just one winter of riding.

This question has been covered several times before on CycleChat. It may well be that riding on flat roads doesn't cause many problems with rim wear in winter. Coming down evil steep descents like the one below, however, means that prolonged heavy braking is the only way to avoid ending up like poor Chris Froome (badly injured in a high speed crash into a wall yesterday). In the winter, the roads will have been covered in salty grit. Round here there will often be stuff washed off fields into the roads too. I have no intention of stopping every 5 minutes to clean the rims and if I don't then they WILL get mucky very quickly. (What I DO do is to ride through shallow puddles to rinse off crap without having to stop.)


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## SpokeyDokey (13 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I'm considering buying a new road bike sometime in the next few months, and was pondering the merits of rim vs disc brakes. I read this article by Paul Allen of the Harris Cyclery (of Sheldon Harris fame): https://www.sheldonbrown.com/disc-brakes.html
> It gives a very thorough list of the advantages and disadvantages of disc brakes. I must admit that I was put off disc brakes a bit when I got to the list of disadvantages of disc brakes.



Without going through that disadvantage list item by item and refuting many of them it's almost as though the author was trying his damnedest to make it as long as possible.

I'm on my 5th disc braked bike (all Hydros) with my current bike being my first road bike with discs and not one has howled in the wet and none have had rotor rub that could not be dialed out with careful adjustment. They are pretty much maintenance free and thus far nothing has ever failed or required replacing apart from new pads - and they go on for yonks on road bikes.

Imo a disk braked bike is the way to go - for me they simply work brilliantly in all conditions, are virtually fit and forget and are very reliable.


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## Shut Up Legs (14 Jun 2019)

As someone who knows very little about disc brakes: is cable friction really a problem for mechanical disc brakes, as the Sheldon Brown web site claims? Or is the risk of cable friction pretty much the same as for rim brakes?


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## Shut Up Legs (14 Jun 2019)

I have another question: how long would it typically take to bleed a pair of hydraulic disc brakes? I read this article about it, and was wondering about the time it would take:
https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/ma...r785-hydraulic-disc-brake-for-road-bikes.html

Regards & thanks,

--- Victor.


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## Vantage (14 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As someone who knows very little about disc brakes: is cable friction really a problem for mechanical disc brakes, as the Sheldon Brown web site claims? Or is the risk of cable friction pretty much the same as for rim brakes?



I don't remember cable friction being an issue when I last had disc brakes and was over 10 years ago. I'm sure things have improved since then.


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## SpokeyDokey (14 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I have another question: how long would it typically take to bleed a pair of hydraulic disc brakes? I read this article about it, and was wondering about the time it would take:
> https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/ma...r785-hydraulic-disc-brake-for-road-bikes.html
> 
> Regards & thanks,
> ...



No idea - never had to bleed any of mine.

Doesn't look like a tricky process to me though in the event that you should have to do so.


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## Will Spin (14 Jun 2019)

You shouldn't need to do it at all. However I did do it on one of my bikes as I don't think the hydraulic fluid had been installed correctly by the bike manufacturer and the brakes were spongy. I bought a brake bleeding kit, took about 1/2 hour to do it and I haven't had to do it again for the last 8 years.


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2019)

It doesn't take long to bleed brakes but you need the kit and you need to be a little organised and careful. Take the pads out and wipe any spills, you don't want to contaminate any part of the braking system, so a bit more effort than normal brakes. The bike needs to be level and so does the reservoir, so a stand helps and you might need to loosen handlebars or levers depending on road or flat bar bike.


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## NorthernDave (14 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As someone who knows very little about disc brakes: is cable friction really a problem for mechanical disc brakes, as the Sheldon Brown web site claims? Or is the risk of cable friction pretty much the same as for rim brakes?



No.

I've got mech disks on one bike and they're very similar to the hydraulic ones on my other bikes in everyday performance. Not quite as good, but not by a lot.


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## ianrauk (14 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As someone who knows very little about disc brakes: is cable friction really a problem for mechanical disc brakes, as the Sheldon Brown web site claims? Or is the risk of cable friction pretty much the same as for rim brakes?




None what so ever.
Sometimes, Sheldon can be wrong.


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## Shut Up Legs (14 Jun 2019)

Thanks, all. Anyway it's not Sheldon any more, but a guy called John Allen. Also, one thing that lowered my opinion of whoever wrote that web page is that yesterday, when I tried to find a timestamp on the web page, I found some text at its bottom saying "Last Updated: <date/time> by John Allen". The only problem is: the date/time exactly matches the date/time at which I reload the page! Oh, dear...


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## si_c (14 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As someone who knows very little about disc brakes: is cable friction really a problem for mechanical disc brakes, as the Sheldon Brown web site claims? Or is the risk of cable friction pretty much the same as for rim brakes?



Not especially, but cable discs are dependent more on the caliper than the cables in my experience. I use TRP brakes now having tried a couple of brands and they are truly excellent - the Hy/Rd in particular. With compression less outers they are the best cable actuated brakes I've used - far better than any of the Shimano rim brakes I've used too.


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2019)

si_c said:


> I use TRP brakes now having tried a couple of brands and they are truly excellent - the Hy/Rd in particular. With compression less outers they are the best cable actuated brakes I've used - far better than any of the Shimano rim brakes I've used too.


I replaced the dire Promax front brake on my CAADX with a Hy/Rd. Yes, it can be a very effective brake. 

The problem that I have with it is that the amount of cable pull needed by the brake is more than my Tiagra brake lever is designed to give. I have to pull the lever 3-4 times as far as normal to start braking and almost to the handlebar to get full braking. Yes - they are correctly adjusted!

I managed to slightly improve performance by relocating the cable to the opposite side of the bolt on the Hy/Rd. I would prefer to reduce cable pull by a factor 2 or 3 but I can't see an obvious (and cheap!) way of doing it.


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Coming down evil steep descents like the one below, however, means that prolonged heavy braking is the only way to avoid ending up like poor Chris Froome (badly injured in a high speed crash into a wall yesterday).


Oops, I thought this was a new thread. I had already made that point in this one last year!


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## mjr (14 Jun 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> I find it hilarious that people think that their tyres suddenly increase their traction when they use disc brakes.


^^ This. I've only got one bike where the brakes cannot skid a wheel in the wet if told to and that's a vintage bike using leather-flecked pads in sidepull brakes onto steel rims. As others have noted, the slight advantage in lower rim wear mainly seems to mean that other bits of the wheel wear out first. Rim brakes just seem easier and cheaper to me while being good enough for my uses.

The main advantage of more ordinary people using disc brakes is that it makes their braking nice and tuneful for those of us with silent bikes! If only they could hold a note properly, they could get some decent music going. Some of them already have the percussion sorted as they crash through the gears...


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## Slick (14 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> ^^ This. I've only got one bike where the brakes cannot skid a wheel in the wet if told to and that's a vintage bike using leather-flecked pads in sidepull brakes onto steel rims. As others have noted, the slight advantage in lower rim wear mainly seems to mean that other bits of the wheel wear out first. Rim brakes just seem easier and cheaper to me while being good enough for my uses.
> 
> The main advantage of more ordinary people using disc brakes is that it makes their braking nice and tuneful for those of us with silent bikes! If only they could hold a note properly, they could get some decent music going. Some of them already have the percussion sorted as they crash through the gears...


Actually quite close to the truth for me. I have one disc bike that is silent although it doesn't know what it means to get wet. I have another that does it all and on spending a few quid on a new groupset, the back brake is every bit as silent as the good bike but the front brake that has been treated exactly the same as the rear is like a violin on steroids and in danger of giving me and everyone else around me tinnitus.


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## Blue Hills (14 Jun 2019)

The esteemed brucey in a certain other place, who knows a ton about bikes and mechanicak things reckons that the case for discs is no way as clear cut as some think. Of course in a dastardly plot to try to force us to discs the braking surface of many quality rims is being shaved away not by pads but by the manufacturers.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> ^^ This. I've only got one bike where the brakes cannot skid a wheel in the wet if told to and that's a vintage bike using leather-flecked pads in sidepull brakes onto steel rims. As others have noted, the slight advantage in lower rim wear mainly seems to mean that other bits of the wheel wear out first. Rim brakes just seem easier and cheaper to me while being good enough for my uses.


It isn't about the brakes ability to lock the wheel, it is about control. The more powerful brakes can be applied without much hand force, making it easier regulate your braking.

Anyone who has driven a car with drum brakes will remember that you can easily lock the wheels - the trouble being that the pedal required so much force that you often did so. I cannot remember the last time I made the tyres squeal with discs.


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## lane (14 Jun 2019)

si_c said:


> Not especially, but cable discs are dependent more on the caliper than the cables in my experience. I use TRP brakes now having tried a couple of brands and they are truly excellent - the Hy/Rd in particular. With compression less outers they are the best cable actuated brakes I've used - far better than any of the Shimano rim brakes I've used too.



I have them on my current bike and on my previous bike and am very happy with them.



ColinJ said:


> I replaced the dire Promax front brake on my CAADX with a Hy/Rd. Yes, it can be a very effective brake.
> 
> The problem that I have with it is that the amount of cable pull needed by the brake is more than my Tiagra brake lever is designed to give. I have to pull the lever 3-4 times as far as normal to start braking and almost to the handlebar to get full braking. Yes - they are correctly adjusted!
> 
> I managed to slightly improve performance by relocating the cable to the opposite side of the bolt on the Hy/Rd. I would prefer to reduce cable pull by a factor 2 or 3 but I can't see an obvious (and cheap!) way of doing it.



This is a frequently reported concern with these. I don't know if it is more an issue on some systems than others, if it is to do with set up or just down to personal preference. Perhaps a bit of all three. I think correct set up is important but even then I have more cable pull than with rim brakes - but I just don't find it an issue.


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2019)

I just remembered posting HERE about my Hy/Rd bodge. 

_*WARNING *- If you are not confident in your bodgery, don't do it! _


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## mjr (14 Jun 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> It isn't about the brakes ability to lock the wheel, it is about control. The more powerful brakes can be applied without much hand force, making it easier regulate your braking.
> 
> Anyone who has driven a car with drum brakes will remember that you can easily lock the wheels - the trouble being that the pedal required so much force that you often did so. I cannot remember the last time I made the tyres squeal with discs.


If your levers require loads of hand force to brake effectively, doesn't that mean you're using the wrong levers and should change to ones with a different pull ratio?


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> If your levers require loads of hand force to brake effectively, doesn't that mean you're using the wrong levers and should change to ones with a different pull ratio?


Caliper brakes require more effort than discs, with which you can apply full power with two fingers. The cable operated discs on my 18kg recumbent trike gave more controllable stopping power than the rim brakes on my current 9kg upright, which feel weedy in comparison.


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## mjr (14 Jun 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Caliper brakes require more effort than discs, with which you can apply full power with two fingers. The cable operated discs on my 18kg recumbent trike gave more controllable stopping power than the rim brakes on my current 9kg upright, which feel weedy in comparison.


I still think it's a matter of levers or setup not brake type.


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## si_c (14 Jun 2019)

mjr said:


> I still think it's a matter of levers or setup not brake type.



You can think that however experience tells me you are incorrect.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Oops, I thought this was a new thread. I had already made that point in this one last year!



Are you still braking down that hill?


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> The esteemed brucey in a certain other place, who knows a ton about bikes and mechanicak things reckons that the case for discs is no way as clear cut as some think. Of course in a dastardly plot to try to force us to discs the braking surface of many quality rims is being shaved away not by pads but by the manufacturers.



But then we know Brucey is against anything invented after the boer war.


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## Heltor Chasca (14 Jun 2019)

You know the story about swans breaking a man’s arm?

It’s utter nonsense. Have you ever met a man who has had his arm broken by a swan? Nope.

In the same vein: 

I have run disc brakes for years and all my bikes have them now. Never has being fastidious about contamination of the pads come into it. What for? It only takes one wet, dusty or mucky ride to introduce foreign objects into the mix. And even then it makes no difference to performance. They are amazingly forgiving and easy to run.

Happy I bust that myth for you.


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## CXRAndy (14 Jun 2019)

I have road bikes that go through pads once a year, due to using them in Alps and Tenerife, where descents can take 30-45 mins at high speeds. I also have disc brake bikes that I have never changed pads in 8 years. 

There is one other important cost saving with disc brakes. Its pothole impacts, where the dents to rims will render a rim braked wheel junk at least the rim(plus rebuild cost).

Disc
brake rims can be dented and mis shapened and will still work forever.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Jun 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> There is one other important cost saving with disc brakes. Its pothole impacts, where the dents to rims will render a rim braked wheel junk at least the rim(plus rebuild cost). Disc brake rims can be dented and mis shapened and will still work forever.



I've got a pothole-impacted rim that is still in service and is OK to brake with. When it got damaged I removed the tyre, then clamped the rim in a vice and got it almost back to it's original profile with a bit of squeezing and judicious use of a hammer!. It is a 36H steel affair off an old Raleigh though, so nice and sturdy.


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I have run disc brakes for years and all my bikes have them now. Never has being fastidious about contamination of the pads come into it. What for? It only takes one wet, dusty or mucky ride to introduce foreign objects into the mix. And even then it makes no difference to performance. They are amazingly forgiving and easy to run.


Er, _actually_... 

My front disc brake wasn't working properly for the first couple of descents on a recent ride with @Blue Hills. (I couldn't get enough braking even when I pulled the lever as far as it would go.) It took 3 or 4 attempts to burn/scrape off whatever it was that had got onto the pads and/or disc. After that, the brake worked fine, even once it had started raining.


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## mjr (14 Jun 2019)

si_c said:


> You can think that however experience tells me you are incorrect.


Well, that appeal to authority certainly convinced me(!)


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## bladesman73 (15 Jun 2019)

10 pages of this and that. Lets cut the crap. If you use disc brakes on a road bike you're a big jessie. Glad to clear that up.


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## Rocky (15 Jun 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> 10 pages of this and that. Lets cut the crap. If you use disc brakes on a road bike you're a big jessie. Glad to clear that up.


Moderators can you change my username to Big Jessie?


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Jun 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> But then we know Brucey is against anything invented after the boer war.



I've often read postings by Brucey on another cycling forum, and I tend to agree with him 99% of the time. I'd say he comes from an engineering background and knows crap designs and ideas when he sees them. Of course all the weight weenies and cycling fashion victims will see him as a Luddite, but I regard it as not falling for modern marketing BS and sticking with tried & tested engineering.


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## Heltor Chasca (15 Jun 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Er, _actually_...
> 
> My front disc brake wasn't working properly for the first couple of descents on a recent ride with @Blue Hills...



@Blue Hills has the same effect on everybody. Riding on his wheel is like riding into a black hole. It is an extraterrestrial experience. You are the first to talk openly about your experience and this will help with the trauma.


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## mjr (15 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> @Blue Hills has the same effect on everybody. Riding on his wheel is like riding into a black hole. It is an extraterrestrial experience. You are the first to talk openly about your experience and this will help with the trauma.


Please don't ride into @Blue Hills's black hole!


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## Blue Hills (15 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> @Blue Hills has the same effect on everybody. Riding on his wheel is like riding into a black hole. It is an extraterrestrial experience. You are the first to talk openly about your experience and this will help with the trauma.


Puzzled, tho am typing this after two strong beers in a grand spoons after a nice visit to a cycling couple.
Do I know you/have I ridden with you?


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## Blue Hills (15 Jun 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> But then we know Brucey is against anything invented after the boer war.


Not true. His opinion was balanced and nuanced. He was just saying they are not the holy grail.


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## Heltor Chasca (15 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Puzzled...Do I know you/have I ridden with you?



Nope. It’s all a wild fantasy.


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## Thomson (15 Jun 2019)

Just got a new disc braked bike. Really pleased with it so far. Damp conditions still have the same braking feel. Have not braked hard with them yet Just firm. Few months in and no problems to report with them. Still use my daily bike with rim brakes on it and it’s made me like rim brakes more and see the good in them. No maintenance and really simple to adjust. As for the weight difference between them I can’t really feel a difference. Or will .499 off a kg make a difference to me. 

Am I glad I got disc brakes? Yes totally. 
Would my next bike have them too? Honestly I will see in more time and take it from there. 

One thing I really like tho is disc brakes doesn’t wear the rim so the bikes wheels are still looking brand new. 
If the weight did bother me am sure lighter tyres and tubes would help. Maybe in the future I will buy lighter disc wheels tho. 
Would really like the same bike as the new one but with rim brakes just to see the difference more. 

Plus the roads near me are quite flat. Not like am braking lots. Further afield hills decents I think discs would edge it. 

Plus who wants to be braking to slow down anyway?....


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## betty swollocks (16 Jun 2019)

I bet the same people who are resistant to disc brakes, would in the past have been resistant to:-

the ordinary as a step up from the hobby horse
the safety bicycle as a step up from the ordinary
chain drive from direct drive
pneumatic tyres from solid
rim brakes from no brakes
derailleur gears
clipless pedals
indexed gears
carbon frames
tubeless tyres
electronic gear shifting.
You can't stop progress and it's all made bicycles be even better.


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