# Go Faster Hills



## RUTHIEBAV (20 Jun 2010)

Hi
Now I've got my first ride under my belt I want to go faster. Specifically I want to go faster up hills.

How do you train for faster uphills? I know I'm going to have to train on hills but apart from that how do you do it? 

Do you try to stay in higher gears or just try to go faster or both?

Do you do any specific gym exercises to help?

New to this cycling lark and slightly surprised that I want to cycle up a hill let alone cycle up it faster so please be gentle with me!!

Ruth


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## Garz (20 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> Hi
> ...Specifically I want to go faster up hills.
> 
> How do you train for faster uphills? I know I'm going to have to train on hills but apart from that how do you do it?
> ...



Hi Ruth.

OK Il try to be brief and concise as possible:

1) Practice by picking two types of hills. Firstly the loooong but not so steep type. (This should improve your speed and cardio). Secondly the short but really steep type. (This should improve your climbing ability).

2) None. Pace yourself and pick the gear which stresses you but not gasses out your muscles.

3) Yes, typically squats, lunges and core work (i.e. Plank).


Hope this helps 

Good luck!


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## Vikeonabike (21 Jun 2010)

Last months Cycling Plus (July) has a good article on hill training! Add Plyometrics to the list of exercises for hills and sprint improvement!
Plyometrics in the middle somewhere


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## jimboalee (21 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> Hi
> Now I've got my first ride under my belt I want to go faster. Specifically I want to go faster up hills.
> 
> How do you train for faster uphills? I know I'm going to have to train on hills but apart from that how do you do it?
> ...



Yes. Warm up properly on the treadmill and gym bike.

On the gym bike, chose the 'hills' routine which alternates between high and low resistance in a progressive series.

Adjust the bike so that the highest resistance is more than 300 Watts.

Set the time to 30 minutes.


If you have to stand up, you have to stand up.


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## fossyant (21 Jun 2010)

Just ride more hills, simple really.


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## ColinJ (21 Jun 2010)

The most obvious thing to do is to lose weight reduce your levels of body fat unless you are already very slim!


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## montage (21 Jun 2010)

lose weight/gain power


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## Will1985 (21 Jun 2010)

Ride them.


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## HLaB (21 Jun 2010)

I don't do any specific training off the bike as hinted at above actually riding them works for me.

With gearing, I try to change up when I stand up and down when I sit down. It works best on long consistent hills though. Physiologically for me anyway I don't like running out of gears some times, i.e already being in the lowest and not being able to change down.


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## RUTHIEBAV (21 Jun 2010)

Thanks everyone. Loads of tips and ideas there. Guess I've got to just get on with it now. Hope this means I'll end up with lovely legs! Ruth


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## RUTHIEBAV (21 Jun 2010)

Vikeonabike said:


> Last months Cycling Plus (July) has a good article on hill training! Add Plyometrics to the list of exercises for hills and sprint improvement!
> Plyometrics in the middle somewhere



Crikey, I'm so not strong. What a great clip. Ruth

I haven't ever bought Cycling Plus - I look out for it. I guess a big WH Smiths would stock it. Thanks.


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## GrasB (21 Jun 2010)

I live in Cambridgeshire & we don't do proper hills here. I don't do any specific exercises for climbing yet when I hit real climbs I'm usually one of the quicker ones. So what gives? I've simply got used to pushing out a lot of power for long periods regardless of the situation. So on the flat I'll do 24mph & up a 20% incline I'll be doing 4mph, for me hills aren't harder they're just slower going up.


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## marinyork (21 Jun 2010)

I think riding up a hill that is 1-2 miles long gives a decent work out. Do this several times a week.


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## TheBoyBilly (22 Jun 2010)

I have to agree that the best way to train for hills is to actually ride them. I really struggle at times, and I firmly try remember to follow advice not to look up to see how far away the crest is.....it seems to work - just. But I don't beat myself up too much if I can't make it all the way as I know I am getting better at hills, if only very slowly.


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## jimboalee (22 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> Crikey, I'm so not strong. What a great clip. Ruth



I used to be able to do the dining table when I was sixteen.

Not now tho'.


Book yourself and your bike on a flight to Tenerife.

Ride up the mountain. Take a day's rest and ride up it again from the opposite side of the island.


I prefer going to San Francisco. They're very bike-friendly there.


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## montage (22 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> I live in Cambridgeshire & we don't do proper hills here. I don't do any specific exercises for climbing yet when I hit real climbs I'm usually one of the quicker ones. So what gives? I've simply got used to pushing out a lot of power for long periods regardless of the situation. So on the flat I'll do 24mph & up a 20% incline I'll be doing 4mph, for me hills aren't harder they're just slower going up.



exactly, you have increased your power, and I am guessing a fairly low weight.


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## jimboalee (22 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> I live in Cambridgeshire & we don't do proper hills here. I don't do any specific exercises for climbing yet when I hit real climbs I'm usually one of the quicker ones. So what gives? I've simply got used to pushing out a lot of power for long periods regardless of the situation. So on the flat I'll do 24mph & up a 20% incline I'll be doing 4mph, for me hills aren't harder they're just slower going up.



This is similar to what Sheldon Brown says.

If the gearing is suitable, a hill will feel exactly the same as riding on the flat.

If you can output 380 Watts to ride at 24 mph on the flat, you will be able to ride up a 20% at 4 mph. Only a matter of 10 watts less...


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

GrasB said:


> I live in Cambridgeshire & we don't do proper hills here. I don't do any specific exercises for climbing yet when I hit real climbs I'm usually one of the quicker ones. So what gives? I've simply got used to pushing out a lot of power for long periods regardless of the situation. So on the flat I'll do 24mph & up a 20% incline I'll be doing 4mph, for me hills aren't harder they're just slower going up.



I am fairly quick on the flat but soooo slow on a steep hill so I guess if I pushed harder still on the flat that will help. To be honest I get the feeling its going to come down to mileage more than anything. Thanks for the comment - just shows its what works for you and its down to getting out there and doing it. Ruth


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

jimboalee said:


> This is similar to what Sheldon Brown says.
> 
> If the gearing is suitable, a hill will feel exactly the same as riding on the flat.
> 
> If you can output 380 Watts to ride at 24 mph on the flat, you will be able to ride up a 20% at 4 mph. Only a matter of 10 watts less...



I don't want to blame the bike because at the end of the day its down to leg power but I run out of gears. 

I'm on a old steel racer with a dual chainset. I don't know how much difference a different bike would make. I get the feeling that a fit rider would be able to get up the hills on this bike so I'm going to persevere. 

What do you think? Would the bike make that much difference? Ruth


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

montage said:


> exactly, you have increased your power, and I am guessing a fairly low weight.



I'm not the lightest but I'm not a real porker - about 10 st 7lb and 5ft 5ins and fairly muscley. I guess every pound counts so back to the diet (maybe) Ruth


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

jimboalee said:


> I used to be able to do the dining table when I was sixteen.
> 
> Not now tho'.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately 2 children who hate sports are going to stop me from doing that. Drat those children. R x


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

1) Practice by picking two types of hills. Firstly the loooong but not so steep type. (This should improve your speed and cardio). Secondly the short but really steep type. (This should improve your climbing ability).

2) None. Pace yourself and pick the gear which stresses you but not gasses out your muscles.

3) Yes, typically squats, lunges and core work (i.e. Plank).

Hope this helps 

Yes it does thanks. I think I'm looking for a magical formula but it looks as though its down to getting out there. 

I do exercises sporadically in the gym but I know its not enough. I don't like it when it hurts R x


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

I have to agree that the best way to train for hills is to actually ride them. I really struggle at times, and I firmly try remember to follow advice not to look up to see how far away the crest is.....it seems to work - just. But I don't beat myself up too much if I can't make it all the way as I know I am getting better at hills, if only very slowly.

Yes I've stopped looking for the top. I keep my head down and pedal ..... slower ..... and slower ...... and everyone flies past me .... grrrr!

Marinyork and you are right - got to get out and do hills is key. 

Now I've read all the posts telling me basically to do that I feel really motivated so thanks everyone for the posts - I've slapped myself a few times and planned in hilly rides. 

I keep telling myself to stop being such a girl and then I remember that I am one, (well an old one anyway.) R x


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## jimboalee (22 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> 1) Practice by picking two types of hills. Firstly the loooong but not so steep type. (This should improve your speed and cardio). Secondly the short but really steep type. (This should improve your climbing ability).
> 
> 2) None. Pace yourself and pick the gear which stresses you but not gasses out your muscles.
> 
> ...



Here's the magic formula.

Weigh the bike in lbs.
Reciprocate this number and multiply it by 1000.
This is the gear length in inches your bike SHOULD have as a gear near the bottom end.

Eg. 25lb bike. 1/25 = 0.04. 0.04 x 1000 = 40" gear.

If you ride EVERYWHERE on a gear higher or equal to this, you will become a strong rider quite soon.

Sooner than the pansies who use gears in the thirties on their 20lb bikes to get up a 10% hill..


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## Rob3rt (22 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> 1) Practice by picking two types of hills. Firstly the loooong but not so steep type. (This should improve your speed and cardio). Secondly the short but really steep type. (This should improve your climbing ability).
> 
> 2) None. Pace yourself and pick the gear which stresses you but not gasses out your muscles.
> 
> ...



Learn to love it, its part and parcel of cycling! 

I agree with Jimbo, riding a high gear ftw to build up your brute strength, I ride 85" on my fixed, this is 95% of my cycling, and my leg strength has improved dramatically (even though muscle mass gains are not evident ). To improve your efficiency, you may need to learn to spin higher cadence later but at least you will have the base strength and power bagged!


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Here's the magic formula.
> 
> Weigh the bike in lbs.
> Reciprocate this number and multiply it by 1000.
> ...



Fab. That sounds like a pretty definitive answer ... just off to weigh the bike ...... thanks R x


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## RUTHIEBAV (22 Jun 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> Learn to love it, its part and parcel of cycling!
> 
> I agree with Jimbo, riding a high gear ftw to build up your brute strength, I ride 85" on my fixed, this is 95% of my cycling, and my leg strength has improved dramatically (even though muscle mass gains are not evident ). To improve your efficiency, you may need to learn to spin higher cadence later but at least you will have the base strength and power bagged!



Up until now I have done most of my training on a spinning bike in the gym so that probably explains why hills are my issue; its too easy to turn off the tension. I'm going to keep it higher and accept I won't be able to spin as fast as everyone else. Thanks R x


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## marinyork (22 Jun 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> I agree with Jimbo, riding a high gear ftw to build up your brute strength, I ride 85" on my fixed, this is 95% of my cycling, and my leg strength has improved dramatically (even though muscle mass gains are not evident ). To improve your efficiency, you may need to learn to spin higher cadence later but at least you will have the base strength and power bagged!



I don't think this would be suitable for everyone. It's one way of doing it but that gearing sounds too high for everyone. I can't even push 85" and it'd be the highest gear on my bike yet I'm all right on hills.


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## HLaB (22 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> I don't want to blame the bike because at the end of the day its down to leg power but I run out of gears.
> 
> I'm on a old steel racer with a dual chainset. I don't know how much difference a different bike would make. I get the feeling that a fit rider would be able to get up the hills on this bike so I'm going to persevere.
> 
> What do you think? Would the bike make that much difference? Ruth


It is mainly down to the rider them self but I've found that with the compact I just hit what I call the 'Nirvana' gear and I feel like I could cycle uphill forever (I couldn't  ). I train on a more traditional double chainset and find this helps. Whatever bike I try to change up when ever I can, so I don't run out of gears. As I said before and is easier said than done, if you can get into a pattern of changing up when you stand up and down when you sit down it helps.


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## jimboalee (22 Jun 2010)

HLaB said:


> It is mainly down to the rider them self but I've found that with the compact I just hit what I call the 'Nirvana' gear and I feel like I could cycle uphill forever (I couldn't  ). I train on a more traditional double chainset and find this helps. Whatever bike I try to change up when ever I can, so I don't run out of gears. As I said before and is easier said than done, *if you can get into a pattern of changing up when you stand up and down when you sit down it helps*.



This involves 'feathering the throttle' and is trickier than you imply for a beginner.
Many a beginner have come to a halt after crunching the gears attempting to change down when climbing.

Shimano, I know, allow a 3 sprocket downshift to allow for the speed loss when 'loosening the torque'.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jun 2010)

RUTHIEBAV said:


> I don't like it when it hurts R x



I don't think anyone likes it. I think it was LeMond who said "It never stops hurting, you just get faster"


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## HLaB (22 Jun 2010)

jimboalee said:


> This involves 'feathering the throttle' and is trickier than you imply for a beginner.
> Many a beginner have come to a halt after crunching the gears attempting to change down when climbing.
> 
> Shimano, I know, allow a 3 sprocket downshift to allow for the speed loss when 'loosening the torque'.


Yip  that why I said first


> easier said than done,


 and


> if you can


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## Rob3rt (22 Jun 2010)

marinyork said:


> I don't think this would be suitable for everyone. It's one way of doing it but that gearing sounds too high for everyone. I can't even push 85" and it'd be the highest gear on my bike yet I'm all right on hills.



Im not suggesting pushing 85" but agree'ing that pushing a gear that is hard on the flat so that it requires you to become stronger rather than pushing a gear that is easy as a good approach. Choice of gearing is dependant on available ratio's and rider.


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## jimboalee (22 Jun 2010)

HLaB said:


> Yip  that why I said first and



I must be dyslexic today. I'm hurriedly reading these posts between doing a bit of work.

I will have to tone the work down a bit.


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## HLaB (22 Jun 2010)

jimboalee said:


> I must be dyslexic today. I'm hurriedly reading these posts between doing a bit of work.


No problem I think we've all had days like that (me more than anybody else  )


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## GrasB (22 Jun 2010)

GregCollins said:


> I don't think anyone likes it. I think it was LeMond who said "It never stops hurting, you just get faster"


Depends how you ride hills & who with.


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## ColinJ (22 Jun 2010)

GregCollins said:


> I don't think anyone likes it. I think it was LeMond who said "It never stops hurting, you just get faster"


Unfortunately, the opposite isn't true. As I've got fatter and less fit, I've gone slower and slower on tough hills but I'm now at the speed where I can't go any slower without falling off so they just hurt more and more!


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## Fiona N (24 Jun 2010)

ColinJ said:


> Unfortunately, the opposite isn't true. As I've got fatter and less fit, I've gone slower and slower on tough hills but I'm now at the speed where I can't go any slower without falling off so they just hurt more and more!



Ah that's because you're past your peak Colin  I know the feeling 
I've actually had a small revelation re training for hills. Round here, I don't train for the hills as such, seeing as how it's hard to ride beyond the end of the drive without hitting a significant gradient, but my attitude has changed recently. I used to gear down and patiently (sort of ) spin up the hills as this is what you have to do on a recumbent so, increasingly, it was what I did on the upright too. 

The road bike I've been riding up 'til recently has a triple and a 30inch granny gear which allows comfortable spinning up most things (Wrynose excepted). But the new bike has a compact and a significantly higher bottom gear which I anyway tend to 'reserve' for when things get hard. Consequently I'm getting up short hills on 70-80 inch gears (largest sprockets I use with the big chain ring) and longer ones on 54-44. 

I've got a lot fitter quite quickly and the extra effort is being absorbed without leaving me knackered at the end of the outing. And, needless to say, riding like this is a lot quicker and I've seen hilly ride average speeds increase from 20-21 kmph to 24-25 kmph, which I'm quite happy with given that I'm no spring chicken and a good deal heavier than racing weight  Perhaps more importantly, I feel like I'm meeting the challenge of the hills, riding more aggressively rather than just pootling.


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## jimboalee (24 Jun 2010)

Fiona N said:


> Ah that's because you're past your peak Colin  I know the feeling
> I've actually had a small revelation re training for hills. Round here, I don't train for the hills as such, seeing as how it's hard to ride beyond the end of the drive without hitting a significant gradient, but my attitude has changed recently. I used to gear down and patiently (sort of ) spin up the hills as this is what you have to do on a recumbent so, increasingly, it was what I did on the upright too.
> 
> The road bike I've been riding up 'til recently has a triple and a 30inch granny gear which allows comfortable spinning up most things (Wrynose excepted). But the new bike has a compact and a significantly higher bottom gear which I anyway tend to 'reserve' for when things get hard. Consequently I'm getting up short hills on 70-80 inch gears (largest sprockets I use with the big chain ring) and longer ones on 54-44.
> ...



Hmmmm..... I'm lost for words.


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## Moodyman (24 Jun 2010)

*Hmmmm..... I'm lost for words.*

Impressed me too. I had to re-read to make sure that I read right.


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## jimboalee (24 Jun 2010)

I've been riding in this style for forty years.

I tried to emulate Eddy Merckx.


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## ColinJ (24 Jun 2010)

Actually, the problem is that I put loads of weight on, don't ride my bike enough, then I go and do an 85 mile ride over the Pennines and wonder why it hurts! 

I spend another week off the bike moaning about my lack of fitness, and then try and do it again...

I'm going back to basics - lots of rides of 20-30 miles rather than a few much longer ones. 

I also need to get back to a sensible size. I bumped into an old man that I know out walking with his daughter and their dogs at the weekend. He took one look at me and said "Blimey, have you put on weight!"


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## jimboalee (25 Jun 2010)

ColinJ said:


> Actually, the problem is that I put loads of weight on, don't ride my bike enough, then I go and do an 85 mile ride over the Pennines and wonder why it hurts!
> 
> I spend another week off the bike moaning about my lack of fitness, and then try and do it again...
> 
> ...



After the last two years being a total washout regarding the weather, and having set myself a goal of earning a 20 x 100km Brevet 2000 from AUK, my aim has become one of...
"Keep fit enough to do a 100km permanent AUK TOMORROW". Not tomorrow in the calendar sense, tomorrow as in "It looks like good weather tomorrow".


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## Fiona N (25 Jun 2010)

Moodyman said:


> *Hmmmm..... I'm lost for words.*
> 
> Impressed me too. I had to re-read to make sure that I read right.



I'm not - I used to race in the Alps with bottom gear of 39 x 23 (46 inch), or 25 (42 inch) if it was going to be a long day  but that was more than 10 years and 12 kg ago


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## jimboalee (25 Jun 2010)

Fiona N said:


> I'm not - I used to race in the Alps with bottom gear of 39 x 23 (46 inch), or 25 (42 inch) if it was going to be a long day  but that was more than 10 years and 12 kg ago



Rode my SWorks to work today. Used 53 x 19 up the 10%. Its usually 42 x 17 on my Dawes Giro 500.

I'm out of training somewhat. 

53 x 19 at 50ish rpm 'cus the speedo said 11 mph.


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