# Cycle Scheme - Don't Bother



## uphillalltheway (24 Feb 2012)

Having been a mountain bike rider for the many years I decided to get a road bike. As with most people money is tight and I decided to opt for the cycle to work scheme. I applied on the 13th January 2012. My cycle scheme was approved on the 19th January 2012. The paperwork was not sent to my employer until 25th January 2012. I then decided to sell my mountain bike and use the money to buy some road bike clothing.
To this date (24/2/12) I have no voucher and no bike. I have the clothing so I suppose I could just walk around the house dressed in it but I think the wife might have something to say.
My employer (very large organisation) just tells me the payment is being processed. Cycle scheme tell me they have not received it. They also tell me they don't chase up employers. So frustated with scheme, employer and having no bike. Also the shop I am buying the bike off (if there are any left) charged me an extra 10% on top as apparently that is what the cycle scheme charge them. All in all I think this is going to turn out more expensive than just buying the bike by the time I make the final purchase, if and when I get the bike.


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## BSRU (24 Feb 2012)

My employer also took ages but that was due to having to wait until beginning of April for the new tax year when our scheme actually started, despite being approved in February. Then there was a further delay due to Easter holidays and HR all being away at the same time.

I already knew that an added 10% is expected on sale or discounted bikes.

Still worth the wait in the end


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## heppy (24 Feb 2012)

I'm not so sure your issues are with Cyclescheme which is how the thread title would lead you to think. I think your frustrations are due to the whole process of which Cyclescheme are a single part.

There are a lot of factors to consider when looking at how to purchase a bike nowadays and with a bit of research the right decision can be reached that matches both your personal financial situation and expectations.

There are plenty of threads explaining the pros and cons of using cyclescheme and would certainly promote researching prior to deciding on using such scheme.

The wait is a drawn out affair but as can easily found online the expectation should be between 6-8 weeks from start to finish. Just think about the endless miles of fun you will be having when the day finally arrives when you can pick up your new bike.

Last point, I would also recommend shopping around if the additional 10% for your local LBS is a problem. I found there were a number of shops willing to offer some great deals for my voucher.

Good luck and happy cycling when the time comes


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## wiggydiggy (24 Feb 2012)

From first indicating to my employer I want to take part in Cycle2Work to receiving the bike it can take 2 months, in that time I certainly wouldn't be daft enough to sell my old bike. I can however approach the LBS, pay a £10 deposit and sit back and wait knowing that it may take some time to process.

It sounds like your issue is with your empoyer and the bike shop, not with Cyclesheme themselves.


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## Ivan Ardon (24 Feb 2012)

Selling your old bike in advance of the new one arriving doesn't seem too smart a move.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> From first indicating to my employer I want to take part in Cycle2Work to receiving the bike it can take 2 months, in that time I certainly wouldn't be daft enough to sell my old bike. *I can however approach the LBS, pay a £10 deposit and sit back and wait knowing that it may take some time to process.*
> 
> It sounds like your issue is with your empoyer and the bike shop, not with Cyclesheme themselves.


Or as a colleague here did, pay £100 deposit but when the voucher turns up find they sold it to one of their Sunday morning shop based club clique anyway .....


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## Nearly there (24 Feb 2012)

A colleague of mine applied for a certificate on feb 6th received his certificate at his home address on the 9th and received his new bike on the 16th feb


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## The Brewer (24 Feb 2012)

Some people here had their bike within a week through th Halfords scheme, infact my employer chased me as I'd not completed the paperwork correctly.
Very please with the service I recived, had to wait awhile for a Cube in my size and was told end of Feb early March. Had my first proper ride this morning


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## wiggydiggy (24 Feb 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Or as a colleague here did, pay £100 deposit but when the voucher turns up find they sold it to one of their Sunday morning shop based club clique anyway .....


 
Unlucky But problem with the LBS then not the Cyclescheme.....

I dealt with Chevin Cycles in Otley, can't praise them enough. CycletoWork was adminstered by Halfords and again no problems.


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## lulubel (24 Feb 2012)

My employer just refused point blank to have anything to do with it when I was looking to buy my first road bike. They claimed I was the only one (out of a few thousand employees) who would want to do it, so it wasn't worth their time and effort. I wonder how many other people they said that to.

Again, not a problem with Cyclescheme.


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## TonyEnjoyD (24 Feb 2012)

It's all down to cycle scheme receiving payment.

My lbs accepted my credit card details as security and I got my bikes about three days after the email saying accepted.
Took a further two to for weeks for the certificate to arrive.

Tony


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## Norm (24 Feb 2012)

Cyclescam.

I set up a stand-alone scheme, selected a bike, collected the cheque, took the cheque to the LBS and collected my bike in about 2 days.

The OP says - Cyclescheme - Don't bother.

Norm says "Friends don't let friends use Cyclescheme".


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## xpc316e (24 Feb 2012)

I have just got a bike through the Halfords administered scheme, but I sourced the bike from a LBS. It was all painlessly done, and the LBS apologised that they couldn't deal on the price because of the cut that halfords take. I ended up paying list price, but the LBS is offering me a free bike-fit if I want one, so I am a happy customer. It is the first time I have used the scheme, but I doubt that it will be the last.


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## Edge705 (24 Feb 2012)

If your employer has not started taking deductions from your salary you are in no mans land However if they have then they have an obligation to get it sorted The same happend with me I was prepared to wait a little until my company started taking deductions without me having the voucher. I roasted our HR department for this and within a week I had my voucher. Your employer makes considerable savings out of this scheme through NI savings on your salary so its in their interest as well think of the scheme as an interest free way to buy a bike with a little added saving on top for the inconvenience of having to lease to the end of 48 months other than that its not that attractive


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## gbb (24 Feb 2012)

Ive thought about it (my employer has one scheme or the other) couldnt be arsed to wait for the paperwork issues, and looking at what some have said you actually save, which according to some, isnt that much, how much you pay at the end etc etc etc...ive decided sod it, i'll just go buy the one i want, when i want, from where i want.
Simples...


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## annaspanna (24 Feb 2012)

We've used this scheme at work and whilst HR were quick at approving the quote from LBS, we have waited nearly 3 weeks. Quick call to cycle scheme and found out that once HR approve they issue the full invoice to the company. Their terms say 30 days hence most companies won't pay up until this date. Ours were good enough to push the payment thro and now our vouchers are on the way. I know I certainly couldn't afford to buy a decent bike without cycle scheme, it's been a pain waiting but we are there now


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## Darcy (24 Feb 2012)

I applied using the cycle to work scheme through Halfords. Made my application on line, one day later the agreement was e-mailed to me in order that I sign and return, popped it back in the post and my letter of collection was e-mailed to me three days later. Quick, easy and will use again.


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## DiddlyDodds (25 Feb 2012)

I just went out and bought my bike cash as i am very rich ....yea right hahaha


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## jamin100 (25 Feb 2012)

I actually did but not because I'm rich.

The bike I wanted through halfords is £1000 

I worked out that on the cycle scheme it would cost be around £750 over the 4 years.

With online codes and vouchers I've managed to buy the bike for £730 outright. I've put that on an interest free credit card for a year and it's worked out that my monthly payment is only a few pounds more than the cycle2work scheme. But then I've got no final payment and I own the bike from day one.

It's worth shopping around as you can very easily get 20% off any bike at halfords.


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

For those of us that can't get/won't get In Free credit, and dont have a few hundred pounds lying around, without Cyclescheme I would have very poor bikes over the last 2 1/2 years as I couldn't have afforded to buy a good one.

Now on my 2nd bicycle, I've had one through Halfords and an LBS. Both experiences have been better than the negative responses here....


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## dellzeqq (25 Feb 2012)

we're just getting through the 2011 bike sale period, but there's still some bargains to be had. If you scour the sales you might well find the bike of your dreams (or something not so far away) for 25% to 35% off. And when you part with the sovs it's yours and not your employers.


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

Feel free to lend me £500, int free, and I only have to pay you back £450 then lol


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## Bluenite (25 Feb 2012)

What's wrong with saving and waiting for the sales. With cycle scheme you do not own the bike outright (i think that's right). I am not a lover of the scheme, if i want something i save up and buy it.


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## jamin100 (25 Feb 2012)

Interest free credit cards for me.
I generally do all my expensive purchases this way. I limit myself to only paying for one thing at a time though and always have them paid off within 10 months


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

Bluenite said:


> What's wrong with saving and waiting for the sales. With cycle scheme you do not own the bike outright (i think that's right). I am not a lover of the scheme, if i want something i save up and buy it.


 
Absolutely nothing and a lot of the time it makes sense, but just on a quick catch up (as posted elsewhere) I dont have a large budget each month to save for items and this way I can get the bike upfront and int free without using credit. Many people are in the same position.

I just think its a little unfair for a few people's bad experiences to come across so strongly when the scheme works very well for the vast majority of users.


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## Norm (25 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> I just think its a little unfair for a few people's bad experiences to come across so strongly when the scheme works very well for the vast majority of users.


I don't think that Cyclescheme works well for many people at all. Other than those who set up and benefit from the profits made by Cyclescheme, of course.

But that's just my opinion.


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## 2Loose (25 Feb 2012)

This really does seem to be down to the Employer delaying the OP, rather than anything to do with Cyclescheme themselves. Also, the way in which the some employers transfer ownership to cyclescheme, rather than just using them to administer the scheme can result in far smaller savings over the year than they need to. 

Although greater savings can normally be had by employer administrated schemes, Cyclescheme do occasionally get a perhaps unfairly bad rap due solely to the decisions of a lazy employer and how they publicise their implementation to to the employees. I have been through the scheme twice and have saved far more than 20% over the year each time, but not all companies handle it the same way as mine.


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> I don't think that Cyclescheme works well for many people at all. Other than those who set up and benefit from the profits made by Cyclescheme, of course.
> 
> But that's just my opinion.


 
I don't think that buying a bike yourself works well for many people at all. Other than those that sell such bikes and benefit from such profits, of course

But thats just my opinion.

Why don't you think it works well for many people? I have nothing to do with running the scheme at my company but everyone I speak to that goes onto the scheme, loves it.


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## Norm (25 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> I don't think that buying a bike yourself works well for many people at all. Other than those that sell such bikes and benefit from such profits, of course
> 
> But thats just my opinion.


Yeah, ok, let's tell people not to buy bikes. 



wiggydiggy said:


> Why don't you think it works well for many people? I have nothing to do with running the scheme at my company but everyone I speak to that goes onto the scheme, loves it.


 
Do your company use Cyclescheme?


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

Cycle2Work, administered by Halfords, using the P41 Tax Code method.

Why don't you think it works well for many people?


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## Norm (25 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> Cycle2Work, administered by Halfords, using the P41 Tax Code method.


So you don't use Cyclescheme then and whether or not everyone in your company loves it is completely irrelevant.

As is the "P41 tax code method", whatever the heck that is.

Go find out about Cyclescheme, you can find enough of the bad bits on here so you don't even have to look too far. Some pointers would be the margins that they take, the hard work that they make the administration, the charges that they make at the end of the rental period, the pressure that they put on employers to sell them the bikes...


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## wiggydiggy (25 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> So you don't use Cyclescheme then and whether or not everyone in your company loves it is completely irrelevant.
> 
> As is the "P41 tax code method", whatever the heck that is.
> 
> Go find out about Cyclescheme, you can find enough of the bad bits on here so you don't even have to look too far. Some pointers would be the margins that they take, the hard work that they make the administration, the charges that they make at the end of the rental period, the pressure that they put on employers to sell them the bikes...


 
Yes we do, we use 'Cycle to work provided by Cyclescheme' (its in my info pack), and the fact people in my company love it is as relevant as your opinion.

P41 Tax Code Method is simply the method of repayment, I understand there are several BTW

I won't go 'and find about Cyclescheme' as I already know enough about it, you make some fair points about the scheme which I know about but to me and my experiences the negatives don't outweigh the benefits.

I am guessing you have had a negative experience with the scheme?

What is surprising about people's attitudes (inc yours) is how negative they can be towards the scheme which, for all its negatives, offers a cheap and affordable path into cycling at benefit to the user.

Is it really that bad?


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## Norm (26 Feb 2012)

I have no negative attitudes towards the cycle to work scheme.The cycle to work regulations offer some significant tax savings to employers and employees if the individual scheme is correctly set up to maximise those benefits.

Cyclescam, on the other hand, are a different issue. Far from "cheap and affordable" they are there to make money from a scheme which the government put in place for people to save tax. If more employers ran the scheme themselves (generally less administration than using Cyclescam) then there would be more profits for the LBS and more savings for the employee.

I didn't realise that (and I'm very surprised that) Cyclescam were behind the Halfords scheme.

There is no such thing as a P41 tax code.


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## wiggydiggy (26 Feb 2012)

Just got back from a great 45 miler on my wonderful Cycle2Work bike, really enjoyed it and heartily recommend to anyone to look into the scheme types available


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## Norm (26 Feb 2012)

Maybe, now that you are back, you could check your documents as Halfords claim that cycle2work is their own scheme, which is "_managed by our team at the Head Office in Worcestershire._".

So, you don't have any experience of Cyclescham, just like there is no "P41 method".


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## wiggydiggy (26 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> Maybe, now that you are back, you could check your documents as Halfords claim that cycle2work is their own scheme, which is "_managed by our team at the Head Office in Worcestershire._".
> 
> So, you don't have any experience of Cyclescham, just like there is no "P41 method".


 
I am guessing then that Cyclescheme, like Halfords, is a company that will administer/run the scheme for companies to help with the 'tax free entry to cycling' for people that work. My experience using Halfords has been positive, I am guessing (as you still haven't told me) that you have had a negative experience with 'Cyclescheme'.

The 'P41 Tax Code Method' was simply the phrase used by the lady on the helpline to describe final payment, from memory as my notes are at work:

12 x monthly payments to the value of the voucher - these earnings are not subject to tax/NI
Final payment is the tax payable on an amount dictated by 'fair market value'


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## Norm (26 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> I am guessing then that Cyclescheme, like Halfords, is a company that will administer/run the scheme for companies to help with the 'tax free entry to cycling' for people that work. My experience using Halfords has been positive, I am guessing (as you still haven't told me) that you have had a negative experience with 'Cyclescheme'.


There's no need to guess, chap, I said a while ago that "you don't use Cyclescheme then". The thread is about Cyclescheme, you might have good experience from Halfords but, as I again said a while ago, that's irrelevant.

Maybe you should have taken my suggestion of yesterday and gone to check what you were talking about, rather than ...


wiggydiggy said:


> I won't go 'and find about Cyclescheme' as I already know enough about it


... pretending to know anything at all about Cyclescheme.


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## Grizzly (26 Feb 2012)

I've used cyclescheme twice now and I wont be using it again. My first bike was discounted and it was mine after 18 months, with a final payment that was the same as the monthly payments had been. The last bike was from the same shop but this time I was told I could not get a discounted bike due to the charges made by cyclescheme, and with the £1000 limit all I could get was an entry level road bike. At the end of the scheme I was offered the bike for £180 or a 3 year extension for £68, I've taken the extension so the bike will be mine after 4 1/2 years. Next time I'll use my LBS, I'll get the bike I want and that fits me (because you get a better service) and it'll be mine after a max of 3 years. OK I'll be paying tax on the money that use to pay for the bike but I think the benefits outweigh the tax savings.


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## Peteaud (26 Feb 2012)

My employer would tell me to F.O

Halfords seem to be good


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## wiggydiggy (26 Feb 2012)

Norm I've lost interest. I was hoping for a mature discussion about the merits and pitfalls about the various cycle schemes available, you seem more interested in trying to score points. Bye


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## Norm (26 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> Norm I've lost interest. I was hoping for a mature discussion about the merits and pitfalls about the various cycle schemes available, you seem more interested in trying to score points. Bye


Maybe you should have approached it differently, then. This specific thread was about Cyclescheme, not about the merits and pitfalls of the various schemes.

You weighed in with "_without Cyclescheme I would have very poor bikes over the last 2 1/2 years as I couldn't have afforded to buy a good one_" and, since then, I've just been trying to understand your specific experience of Cyclescheme. 

As an aside, the merits and pitfalls of the various schemes are irrelevant to many people who are locked into a specific scheme chosen / set up by their employers. You cannot just switch to another brand like baked beans.

The Halfords Cycle2Work scheme seems to be well regarded by most who use it. Unlike Cyclescheme.


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## Alembicbassman (26 Feb 2012)

The spirit of the scheme was to get people out of cars and using a bike for part or all of the journey to work. I read somewhere that the contract stated the bike will be used 50% of the time for work related travel. The incentive was that lease payments were taken from salary before tax with the option to purchase the bike at the end of the agreed period.

It was not intended for people to indulge themselves with a £1000 bike tax free and use it at weekends.

It appears HMRC issued clarification on the matter last year which makes the scheme less attractive for those wanting a discounted deal on a new bike.

Personally I can't see any merits in the scheme. Using the voucher at full RRP plus administration fees for bikes you can get up to 20% off by shopping around, using voucher codes etc... means you lose any tax saving. Many credit card companies offering interest free purchases for 12 months means you can pay in instalments from your wages by setting up a simple standing order.

By shopping around and buying discontinued models I have regularly made savings of 50% on new bikes' RRP.

I think my employer (Boots) offers the scheme through Halfords, but I've never been tempted by it.


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## jayonabike (27 Feb 2012)

MY employer (Royal Mail) also offers the scheme through Halfords but with a limit of £500 so I've never used it. I shop around, find a bike with a good discount and buy it on the credit card. I bought a Dawes Century from Spa cycles which normally retails around £1100 for £725 and even with interest on the monthly payments was still less than the full whack price. I had it paid off in less than a year as well.


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## Rancid (27 Feb 2012)

my company is very pro cycling and actively push the cycle to work scheme.
As this was my first bike my concerns where not so much getting the best discount, but more to do with getting the best advice for a total novice.

Now that I'm a little more seasoned and have a better idea, for my next bike i would most probably try to find the bike i wanted and then drive a hard bargain on it.

As someone else already said, the cycle to work thing is for people to cycle to work, not for seasoned pros to try and save a few £££ on a multi grand racer.


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## Linford (27 Feb 2012)

Lady who does the books said that she contactedthe rev, and the bikes cannot be gifted at the end of the term as it is a disposal of assets in the taxmans view, and also the bike could/should theoretically be used by anyone in the company until the hire period is finished - reality is thisis unlikely, but she reckoned it was all a bit of a con which the rev are well up to speed on, and there was not a lot of mileage in taking part in it


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

Linford said:


> Lady who does the books said that she contactedthe rev, and the bikes cannot be gifted at the end of the term as it is a disposal of assets in the taxmans view


That's not quite true, as the bike can be gifted but it will be as a benefit in kind and will attract tax at your marginal rate on the value from HMRC's matrix of age & original cost.

In other words, if you were gifted a 12 month old bike which cost £1k would have an assumed value of £250 (which is 25%) and that would be added to your tax code which will cost you £100 if you pay at 40% or £50 if you are a 20% tax payer.

There are a couple of schemes (waits for lejogger) which specifically use the gift / BiK treatment.


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## Linford (27 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> That's not quite true, as the bike can be gifted but it will be as a benefit in kind and will attract tax at your marginal rate on the value from HMRC's matrix of age & original cost.
> 
> In other words, if you were gifted a 12 month old bike which cost £1k would have an assumed value of £250 (which is 25%) and that would be added to your tax code which will cost you £100 if you pay at 40% or £50 if you are a 20% tax payer.
> 
> There are a couple of schemes (waits for lejogger) which specifically use the gift / BiK treatment.


 
You also have to pay for the rental/HP of it as well as I understand which is ?

The incentives for the company to take it on don't appear to be that great.


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

The incentives for the company can be significant. Not only do they save E'ers NI (which is, IIRC, 13.8%?), but also, if you've paid £500 over 6 months to ride a £1k bike, that might be an incentive to stop you looking for a new job until the end of the contract.


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## Linford (27 Feb 2012)

Personnel turnover in my works is very low TBH. I think that is the case for most places now - especially in a manufacturing environment. they haven't exactly pushed to boat out to encourage manufacturing in the UK over the last 30 years.


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## MacB (27 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> Norm I've lost interest. I was hoping for a mature discussion about the merits and pitfalls about the various cycle schemes available, you seem more interested in trying to score points. Bye


 
You do realise that you're arguing about a finance based scheme with an accountant who has been involved in setting one up from scratch?

Let's be totally clear here, things like Cyclescheme, cycle to Work, are middlemen functions taking a cut in return for administrative duties. There is no requirement to use one of these middlemen, any company can create their own schem on their own behalf. Even the concept of vouchers and being tied to specific retailers is middleman invention.

Your company can do this and give you a wadge of cash to go shopping with, if they so wish.

My understanding, and Norm could correct me on this, is that the use of middlemen makes little difference to the benefits to the company, but makes quite a difference to the deal the employee gets.


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## dellzeqq (27 Feb 2012)

MacB said:


> My understanding, and Norm could correct me on this, is that the use of middlemen makes little difference to the benefits to the company, but makes quite a difference to the deal the employee gets.


and to the LBS, who have to cough up the 10% and fill out the forms. Which my brother refuses to do.


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

MacB said:


> My understanding, and Norm could correct me on this, is that the use of middlemen makes little difference to the benefits to the company, but makes quite a difference to the deal the employee gets.


Financially, there is no direct charge to the employer, although Cyclescheme did, at one stage, seem to be pushing employers to selling the bikes to Cyclescheme. This was ostensibly to reduce the company's administration (which was little-to-nothing anyway) but in reality, it also allowed Cyclescheme the opportunity to be the ones to sell the bikes back to the employee at the end of the rental period.

As for the deal that the employee gets, Cyclescheme are more restrictive than necessary and...


dellzeqq said:


> and to the LBS, who have to cough up the 10% and fill out the forms. Which my brother refuses to do.


... they take their 10% from the LBS, potentially removing much of the margin that the LBS receives.

When I set up a scheme, because we went independent, I was able to negotiate my own deal with the LBS (including a 10% discount & various bits thrown in or fitted FOC) because the only thing that the LBS had to do was accept a company cheque. No forms, no lost margin, no extra time in administration, no agreement to promote a third party middleman, they just had to take the payment.

Which reminds me...


Linford said:


> Personnel turnover in my works is very low TBH. I think that is the case for most places now - especially in a manufacturing environment. they haven't exactly pushed to boat out to encourage manufacturing in the UK over the last 30 years.


... depending on the details of the scheme, the employer may charge to transfer ownership at the end of the rental period, Linfy. That obviously reduces the benefit to the employee but it does appear to be the way that the scheme was intended to be set up. Thus, the employer could make 38% of the purchase price of the bike as "profit" to cover the (negligible) administration of the scheme.


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## wiggydiggy (27 Feb 2012)

MacB said:


> <SNIP>


 
Mac that wasn't the issue, I didn't like the condescending manner that his post were taking his or his clever attitude towards 'scoring points' over myself. Too often I see a interesting debate or discussion on Cyclechat derailed in such a way, the fact he is a staff member and perhaps should have been more considerate in his posts only confounds the matter. We should never look down on people that know less than ourselves and although I would have welcomed discussing the matter in a less confrontational way that's not how the conversation was going for me.

Whether you or anyone else agrees with that is immaterial, that is how his posting made me feel so I have bowed out of this.


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

Given that your first response to me was mockery...


wiggydiggy said:


> I don't think that buying a bike yourself works well for many people at all. Other than those that sell such bikes and benefit from such profits, of course
> 
> But thats just my opinion.


...I'm not sure what you expected.

However, what you see as condescension, wiggy, is nothing more than frustration.

Had you only answered honestly when I asked whether your company used CycleScheme, or had you taken my suggestion about reading up on CycleScheme, then you might have gained the understanding that you profess to seek.

Instead, your attitude got all aggressive/defensive ("I won't go 'and find about Cyclescheme' as I already know enough about it") and your posts became repeat attempts to belittle me.

As for "staff member", CycleChat is a huge community and many people use the resource here to find out about some of the more complex issues around cycle to work schemes and people posting stuff which isn't true (such as Halfords use CycleScheme) needs to be addressed.

Rather than continued sniping, you could spend some time reading the CC boards about the various options in relation to the cycle to work regulations, and how many people get confused because they see stuff that is simply not true and how much time I (and a few others, like lejogger, 2Loose, RedLight, Cubist) have spent trying to bust the myths. Or you could drop the mockery and ask any question about the general regulations or about your specific scheme.

I've been trying to correct such falsehoods since long before I became a "staff member" here and I have the unfortunate feeling that someone will need to be doing it long after my skewers have rusted and my bearings have seized.


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## wiggydiggy (27 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> <SNIP>


 
Norm I've re-read our conversation and I'm sorry but I can't agree that I spoke to you aggressively, or got defensive and I certainly did nothing to belittle you (or participate in 'sniping'). If anything I've attempted to meet you halfway by commenting that you make some good points and asking for more information about your own poor experiences with Cyclescheme.

When I did take onboard your advice that Cyclescheme is _not_ the Halfords Cycle2Work scheme I have used you tell me it is not relevant which I don't think is the best approach at all - both are scheme's run to help people get on their bikes so surely discussing one brings the other to the fore?

If you thought I was belittling you perhaps asking me to stop and look at the differences in how the two schemes are run (Cyclescheme vs HalfordsCycle2Work) would have been a better approach, I don't mind correcting myself if someone gets the wrong impression from what I post as it is often hard to get accross what you truly mean with words only. I'd have been happy to do that BTW (confirm I wasn't trying to belittle you and discuss Cyclescheme VS Halfords Cycle2Work)but you put me right off.

So.....

Extending the olive branch I'd like to put across my own experiences of Halfords Cycle2Work scheme, and perhaps compare it to the 'Cyclescheme' company for anyone reading:

I've had 2 bikes from the scheme, which has a maximum of £1000 for my company, and I have spent £300 and £500. Although there is a relatively long lead in time from deciding value to collecting the bike, this is understandable as we do have a lot of employees. The payments are taken automatically from salary for 12 months, at the end of which a final payment if we want to keep the bike is agreed. It has proved quite popular as the waiting list for bike spaces at my office is now over 100 people although I accept they may not be all using the scheme!

I would like to correct myself here as having checked my notes at work, it is the 'P11d Tax Code Method' which we use. The basic sums are [Voucher Value] - 18%[of Voucher] * tax bracket (20% for lower rate) = £Sum to pay. My notes from my latest application indicate its going to be 20% of £90, or around £18. This sounds about right as I believe the Halfords Cycle2Work just charges a flat fee of £20 for under £501. Certainly my £300 bike also needed a payment of £20.

The bikes themselves the 1st one was from Halfords, the 2nd from an LBS, the advantage of going for a Halfords brand is they offer 15% free accessories which can be handy for beginners to get kit you need and if they are reduced at the right time a bargain can be had. Obviously an LBS can offer wider range of bikes but they will tend to charge full RRP, I was lucky that I got a 'last one in the shop' and it was reduced anyway.

So Halfords Cycle2Work is *not* Cyclescheme as the OP and others here are familiar with, but it is a successful (for all parties) cycle to work scheme run that someone looking to get their company involved in with could investigate more. That's all I was really trying to get accross.

Better? (long olive branch)


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> Better? (long olive branch)


 

And apologies if I did come across as condescending, it really was just frustration. Coffees are on me next time I'm in **insert wiggy's home town**  And no, I don't mean that to be an invitation to _pour_ coffees on me. 

I should have realised that you were thinking of P11D. I was going through all the tax codes which I could remember, from P45 (no-one wants that one!) and P46 to P35, P60 and P14 (which are needed soon). I got kinda confused by the P14 especially, as it was close to your P41 but that's a year end return and I couldn't link that to salary sacrifice. The P11D method, where you pay tax on the HMRC value rather than paying the value itself, is by far the best option (IMO) so you are onto a good one there.

The £1k limit is not specific to your company, it's a general rule and is part of financial services regulations rather than the cycle to work scheme rules. In outline, for a company to lend over £1000, they need a consumer credit licence and they are regulated like a bank or a loan company. I understand (I think it was RedLight who posted it here) that it costs around £1200 to get a CCL, so most don't bother and stick to the £1k limit.

As for the difference between Cyclescam and Halfords' Cycle2Work scheme, they do seem to have taken different approaches. The latter seems to be much more about getting the bikes sold which is, I guess, because that's where they are making their money. Cyclescheme don't charge anyone explicitly (other than the supplying dealer) so they need to be more subtle & covert with the way that they get money from employees and employers. I'm always in favour of openness so the Cyclescheme business model is never going to get my vote.


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## wiggydiggy (27 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> <SNIP>


 
No probs buddy

Its interesting you mention Consumer Credit License - we definitely have one (its a bank) so I wonder if I can persuade them that £1k or more bikes are appealing to some people.  I doubt it though as all of our leaflets say 'upto £1k'

Did you spot this BTW on Halfords website "We deliver unbeatable savings for you and your employees - in fact, we promise to beat any other Cycle to Work scheme provider^^." I'm guessing they are talking about Cyclescheme there!

^^Halfords promise to offer your scheme participants the opportunity to make better overall savings off bikes and safety equipment sourced on Cycle to Work than are available from your current scheme provider.


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> Its interesting you mention Consumer Credit License - we definitely have one (its a bank) so I wonder if I can persuade them that £1k or more bikes are appealing to some people.  I doubt it though as all of our leaflets say 'upto £1k'


That should work - if a bank can't sort out a CCL, then who knows what sort of a mess we'd be in. Although it's possible that the limit is set by Halfords' scheme. They might not have the flexibility to say employees of company A, which is a manufacturing company, can only spend £1k whereas staff from compoany B, a bank, can have an unlimited budget.

This is also one of the problems with the schemes, though. The original DfT document is quite short and easily understood, as are the HMRC guidance notes. The interpretations, though, are myriad and confused and it appears to my untrained eye that many are not compliant with the regs.

I hadn't spotted that on the Halfords site. It is interesting, though, as they do seem to be pushing themselves over "any other Cycle to Work scheme provider". And, IMO, that's a good thing.


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## Grizzly (27 Feb 2012)

I love a happy ending


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## wiggydiggy (27 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> <SNIP>


 
I think its combination of the scheme and the limit to which the company wants to pay - that P11d method involves my company paying HMRC themselves the 'fair value', I think. I'll defer to your expertise on that

Whats annoying is that 'Cyclescheme' appear to be giving out such a negative experience that its perhaps rubbing off on people tempted to try one of the alternative providers.

This is a good example of another good supplier - Leisure Lakes Bikes - a bike shop that will not only take the Halfords C2W voucher as I nearly got my bike from here (but I found a supplier closer), they will will also help you set up your own scheme! http://www.leisure-lakes-c2w.com/ .



Grizzly said:


> I love a happy ending


 
 Its all fun and game really


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## Norm (27 Feb 2012)

wiggydiggy said:


> I think its combination of the scheme and the limit to which the company wants to pay - that P11d method involves my company paying HMRC themselves the 'fair value', I think. I'll defer to your expertise on that


Oooo, there is an alternative that allows the company to pay tax on behalf of their employees (it's called a dispensation) but I've never seen that covering the donation of a C2W scheme bike before. That is as good as it gets!

I understand even more why you think your scheme is so good but I wouldn't go telling too many people about that, it's very unusual and I don't think anyone else will get the same level of benefits from it that you are seeing.


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## wiggydiggy (27 Feb 2012)

Norm said:


> Oooo, there is an alternative that allows the company to pay tax on behalf of their employees (it's called a dispensation) but I've never seen that covering the donation of a C2W scheme bike before. That is as good as it gets!
> 
> I understand even more why you think your scheme is so good but I wouldn't go telling too many people about that, it's very unusual and I don't think anyone else will get the same level of benefits from it that you are seeing.


 
Hehe I checked and the benefit of a job with us (of which C2W can be part of) is spoken of on our 'careers' page so I know I'm not giving anything away. I suspect they have used the 'best' deal available as despite our reputation (hey we are a bank!) we do try to look after employees, mostly lol So your theory of dispensation for this (and some other stuff) being used I think is right.

I do have a slightly skewed view of the scheme in general then because of that, but I do understand now that when 'Cyclescheme' is spoke of it doesn't necessarily mean the scheme in general but the company 'Cyclescheme' who by all accounts here don't have a good rep.


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