# You know who you are!



## Donger (25 Jul 2015)

Went out in the car today to do a reccie for a route for my first ever 100 miler. Somewhere to the East of Cirencester (near Coln st Aldwyn) , we ended up on a narrow little single-track lane with very few suitable passing places. That was when we came upon him .... at first we thought he was a young lad, he looked so frail. By the time I'd been stuck behind him for a mile or so, I could tell it was actually a MAMIL, though he looked about 14. Stick-thin legs and full lycra white kit. A very small man who appeared to be suffering from small man syndrome, and was determined to hog the road.

Followed him at 15-20mph for at least 2 more miles, always about 12 feet behind him. He was over towards the left side of the road the whole time, but never quite close enough to the edge for a car to be able to get past. Every turn I was due to make, yep ... he made it too. Every single time there was a grassy "passing place" or a farm entrance, he speeded up slightly to prevent me from getting past. In all, this carried on for over 3 miles. At one point an oncoming car pulled over to allow me through and flashed his lights. At exactly the same place there was a suitable pull-in for the cyclist to move into, but no! By now he could not possibly have been unaware of my presence. Rather than appreciating the patience I had shown, he kept going out of his way to avoid having to pull over to let me past.

He could not possibly have hoped for a more patient and cyclist-tolerant driver than me to be behind him. I am an Audax UK member and a local cycle club rider , and I know just how badly some car drivers act towards us. But this guy took the biscuit. That anyone could turn _both me and my wife_ of all people, into seething, snarling, foul-mouthed and potentially aggressive yobs is quite an achievement. As usual, however, none of this translated into either of us actually giving him a piece of our minds, and I eventually just gave up and took a different turn from him. .... but what an annoying t**t. If you live near Cirencester and you recognise him from the description, tell him from me what I think of him ..... and you might add that the last time I saw a pair of legs like that they were hanging out of a nest.


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## Fubar (25 Jul 2015)

Nobbers everywhere.


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## Drago (25 Jul 2015)

That's weedy weaklings for you. Its the only way that can exert any power or influence over any one in their sad, stick thin little lives.


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## shouldbeinbed (25 Jul 2015)

You probably runied his day by not reindorcing the aggressive driver squeezing by stereotype.


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## Cuchilo (25 Jul 2015)

Maybe he was training for a 100 miler . How fast did you want to go on a narrow single track lane with very few passing places ?


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## jonny jeez (25 Jul 2015)

Sorry, I shall pull over next time.


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## mjr (25 Jul 2015)

Are there really passing places that are grass not tarmac, or do you mean you were expecting him to go offroading to satisfy your MGIF-lust?


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## HertzvanRental (25 Jul 2015)

If he doesn't look at CC, it's all a waste of time!


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## jowwy (25 Jul 2015)

How do you hog the road on a single track lane with very little passing points ( your words) 

Seems to me he was ensuring he was safe and not allowing a close pass on a single track lane at 15-20mph which could have put himself and you in danger, especially with oncoming cars


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## Mo1959 (25 Jul 2015)

Being just 12 feet behind him all the time maybe pissed him off!


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## mjr (25 Jul 2015)

Mo1959 said:


> Being just 12 feet behind him all the time maybe pissed him off!


Remind me: what's the stopping distance of a car at 20mph?


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## jowwy (25 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> Remind me: what's the stopping distance of a car at 20mph?


Thinking distance 20ft - stopping distance 20feet.........so driver/OP was a bit close


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## Cuchilo (25 Jul 2015)




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## Donger (25 Jul 2015)

All very amusing, but actually I backed off every single time there was a chance for him to pull over. Any reasonable person would have appreciated the patience I displayed. This guy was the sort of nobber who gets all of us hated by drivers everywhere. When I say 12 feet behind him, I mean _at least_ that, and with my right wheel almost off the road, waiting for a wide enough stretch to be able to pass him safely. I could actually have squeezed past dangerously on 5 or 6 occasions, but that's not me. I never expected him to pull over quickly, and fully appreciated the road conditions, but this was totally ridiculous behaviour. What the devil on my shoulder really wanted to do was squeeze past, emergency stop, and fling his bike (or him) over the nearest hedge! Being probably 3 times his body mass, I appreciated that this might not show me in my best light to any passers-by.


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## Cuchilo (25 Jul 2015)

Soooooooooo you're an angry driver then ?


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## Donger (25 Jul 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Soooooooooo you're an angry driver then ?


 Not quite as angry as the woman who actually sent cyclists diving for the hedges on the audax I did last week!


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## mjr (25 Jul 2015)

Even the self description isn't sounding patient so I wonder what the reality was. Grass and muck- filled farm entrances aren't passing places and 12ft is far too close for safety, which can't be excused by saying you're a cyclist yourself. As a motorist, I'm embarrassed by this description and think this is the sort of thing that gives us a bad name on forums like this!


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## Lilliburlero (25 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> the last time I saw a pair of legs like that they were hanging out of a nest.



 

I`m nicking that off you


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## Saluki (25 Jul 2015)

I feel your pain @Donger. Got stuck behind a MAMIL the other day myself. I kept well back as he was slow then quicker then slow again. The person in front of me - for a good mile or so and there were a lot of safe passing places where he could have just tucked in and let me past him but he stayed resolutely to the centre of the road. He was the opposite to your stick thin chap though, he was erm, rounder. He was averaging about 8mph.


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## Donger (25 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> Even the self description isn't sounding patient so I wonder what the reality was. Grass and muck- filled farm entrances aren't passing places and 12ft is far too close for safety, which can't be excused by saying you're a cyclist yourself. As a motorist, I'm embarrassed by this description and think this is the sort of thing that gives us a bad name on forums like this!


 Thank you for the lecture.
"so I wonder what the reality was" ..... Really?


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## Cuchilo (25 Jul 2015)

On a serious note .... I'm quite happy to sit behind cyclists in my big white van and block the other drivers behind me from overtaking . When I'm driving I'm not earning money and I hate driving because ive done so much of it over the years . Other drivers messing about and not knowing what they are doing piss me off within seconds but a cyclist , I could sit behind one all day so that they had a clear road .
It seems to me that you had your drivers head on . Especially as you where just checking out a route with no timescale to work too ?


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## Donger (25 Jul 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> On a serious note .... I'm quite happy to sit behind cyclists in my big white van and block the other drivers behind me from overtaking . When I'm driving I'm not earning money and I hate driving because ive done so much of it over the years . Other drivers messing about and not knowing what they are doing piss me off within seconds but a cyclist , I could sit behind one all day so that they had a clear road .
> It seems to me that you had your drivers head on . Especially as you where just checking out a route with no timescale to work too ?


 As it's you, I'll maybe concede that you may have a point. It can happen to all of us.... But last week 3 of us pulled over in a farm entrance to let a car go by without a word of dissent. Sometimes it is just the right thing to do. You only have to have a modicum of decency to do it ... and the absence of a huge chip on your shoulder. I imagine the vast majority of adult leisure cyclists in this country are also car drivers. Live and let live.


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## sight-pin (25 Jul 2015)

Remember! his spindly legs are less wind resistance........


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (25 Jul 2015)

Ever heard of Google Maps?


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## Justinslow (25 Jul 2015)

ABikeCam said:


> Ever heard of Google Maps?


Ummm that is keen, checking out a new100 mile route! Spoil the surprises......


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## ayceejay (25 Jul 2015)

I have been in a similar situation to that cyclist and I thought I would keep going and demonstrate to the driver that I was making an effort to find a safe place for overtaking, after all we are *sharing* the road right? So what if this guy was doing the same but an appropriate place never materialized so he just kept going?


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## Pikey (26 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Not quite as angry as the woman who actually sent cyclists diving for the hedges on the audax I did last week!



Heard about that. I was on the 300 so thankfully left before that loon turned up.


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## Pikey (26 Jul 2015)

ayceejay said:


> I have been in a similar situation to that cyclist and I thought I would keep going and demonstrate to the driver that I was making an effort to find a safe place for overtaking, after all we are *sharing* the road right? So what if this guy was doing the same but an appropriate place never materialized so he just kept going?



Yeah, it could have been this, but there is a lack of human interaction in this situation. A small gesture from the cyclist to say thanks for staying back to the driver or even just a wave would have sorted it. I think it was a copper who told me that...


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## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2015)

I always and I mean always give a nod or a wave when a driver gives me space or let's me out. Do I have too no but it's all about sharing isn't it!


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## Accy cyclist (26 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> That's weedy weaklings for you. Its the only way that can exert any power or influence over any one in their sad, stick thin little lives.



That'll be why a lot of them join the police i suppose.


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## Markymark (26 Jul 2015)

I'm guessing you woukd have been drivibg at around 40mph if a free road. You say that you followed him for 2 miles. Therefore he slowed you down by around 6 minutes.

Oh the drama.

Yes he could have pulled over. Maybe he didn't feel safe. When cyvling I iften get held up by traffic that could pull over. They don't either.

It sounded like a nice country lane. Yiu were slowed by a few minutes. Get over yourself else choose faster roads or leave earlier.


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## Ihatehills (26 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> I'm guessing you woukd have been drivibg at around 40mph if a free road. You say that you followed him for 2 miles. Therefore he slowed you down by around 6 minutes.
> 
> Oh the drama.
> 
> ...


Would you have the same attitude if he was riding in the middle of a narrow cycle path slowing you down and not letting you past when he had the opportunity ? 
It's easy to let people through on country lanes due to low volume of traffic and there are Always places where you can move over a bit whith the maximum loss being a couple of seconds, it's just about showing some courtesy really


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## jonny jeez (26 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> As it's you, I'll maybe concede that you may have a point. It can happen to all of us.... But last week 3 of us pulled over in a farm entrance to let a car go by without a word of dissent. Sometimes it is just the right thing to do. You only have to have a modicum of decency to do it ... and the absence of a huge chip on your shoulder. I imagine the vast majority of adult leisure cyclists in this country are also car drivers. Live and let live.


What you have done is what I do every day. The moment we get into our car, or on our bike, or motorbike, or scooter, or fixie, or tandem, or bent, or ark...we join a tribe and immediately find reasons to dislike other tribes.

As a cyclist, you have a greater ability to appreciate other tribes but ultimately can get as fed up with them as all the rest. When I drive I generally find cyclists annoying, when I cycle, I generally find fixed riders annoying, when I motorcyle, its scooters, when I scooter it's cabs, in the Audi, it's BMW's, on the Specialized, it's condors, when I walk, I find everyone annoying.

Unfortunately, this is a cycle forum, so expect some negative views of your honesty. Having said all that, I think you will admit yourself that, whilst patient and understanding, you still got fed up and got too close at times.

I'll bet money, the rider wasn't a knob...in reality. I'll bet he was panicking a bit, feeling harassed, felt his lovely gentle ride through single track had been spoilt by traffic and just wanted to get home.

If it were me riding, I would have gotten fed up and stopped, if only so I could ride in peace once the following traffic had gone.


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## Markymark (26 Jul 2015)

Ihatehills said:


> Would you have the same attitude if he was riding in the middle of a narrow cycle path slowing you down and not letting you past when he had the opportunity ?
> It's easy to let people through on country lanes due to low volume of traffic and there are Always places where you can move over a bit whith the maximum loss being a couple of seconds, it's just about showing some courtesy really


Yeah I cyle a lot in London and there's often lots of cyclists being held up by slower ones on cycle lanes. The impatient cyclists tend to be the nobbers. You get impatient cyclists and impatient drivers. Both are dicks. Impatient drivers have potential to also do more harm.


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## jonny jeez (26 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Yeah I cyle a lot in London and there's often lots of cyclists being held up by slower ones on cycle lanes. The impatient cyclists tend to be the nobbers. You get impatient cyclists and impatient drivers. Both are dicks. Impatient drivers have potential to also do more harm.


This is very true...as they say, sometimes idiots ride bikes.

When they drive cars or trucks the possibility of harm is massively increased


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## alecstilleyedye (26 Jul 2015)

i always apply the lbw rule* where there is not, in my estimation, room for a safe pass. always pull over when safe to do so though; why bait a motorist for the sake of it? 

that said, if you drive on those sort of roads, you should expect to be held up by cyclists, walkers or even the local hunt...

*let the bugger wait


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## coffeejo (26 Jul 2015)

I thought I was going to be beaten up last summer following a similar incident, and yes, I hold my hands up, my behaviour didn't help calm the situation. Narrow road, ditches both sides, no room for two cars to pass one another without the aid of a passing place, of which there were many. A van came up behind me, revving the engine, driving too close etc, so I decided against stopping at the side and getting on the verge to let him past and instead got in the middle of the lane so he couldn't overtake and carried on to the next passing place. 

However, when we got there, a car was coming in the opposite direction so I kept going and he had to pull in to let the other car past. He caught up with me shortly before the next passing place and again sat right on my back wheel, being an arse ... only there was yet another car coming in the opposite direction, so I once again I kept going. Believe it or not, this happened again and again at every passing place on this lengthy narrow stretch and by the time the road was wide enough for him to safely pass, he was using his horn and I'd given up looking back over my shoulder to see if he was going to run me over. 

When I finally let him overtake, he drove alongside me and his passenger gave me a whole load of abuse out of the window, which is when I began to wonder what would happen next. Yet another car approached from the opposite direction so he zoomed off in a cloud of exhaust smoke. If he'd driven patiently behind me at the very beginning, none of it would have happened, and I kept being stubborn because he kept being an arse, but in retrospect, I should have just let the bleeper past.


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## sidevalve (26 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> As it's you, I'll maybe concede that you may have a point. It can happen to all of us.... But last week 3 of us pulled over in a farm entrance to let a car go by without a word of dissent. Sometimes it is just the right thing to do. You only have to have a modicum of decency to do it ... and the absence of a huge chip on your shoulder. I imagine the vast majority of adult leisure cyclists in this country are also car drivers. Live and let live.


Dream on.


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## snorri (26 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Went out in the car today to do a reccie for a route for my first ever 100 miler.


.
B#@#@# cyclists clogging up our roads with their cars as they recce a route to cycle at a later date. Wtf is wrong with a bike for that task? If I had known what you were up to, I'd have held you back too.

Edited to say I can't do Smiley's when using current device.


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## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2015)

This thread has lost the plot now ! its confirming my own beliefs that there are some right moaning gits on bikes :/ let's share the road and let's not hog space when we don't have to.


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## glenn forger (26 Jul 2015)

You and your wife sound like horrible people. Which road was it?


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## Foghat (27 Jul 2015)

What a bizarre display of "I'm going to go driving a big noisy antisocial vehicle down some narrow lanes which are to a large number of walkers, cyclists and horse riders a refuge from the rest of the god-awful traffic-laden road network in this country (and which if I bother to think about it are of course far too narrow for me to expect to be able to make rapid or easy progress among other road users in my inappropriately wide choice of conveyance), yet complain that other people don't bloody vacate the road by actually completely stopping for me, and for every other big wide noisy antisocial pollution dispenser that comes up behind them in the middle of their really quite decent 15-20mph progress, and getting off MY BLOODY ROAD onto the grass so that I DON'T GET HELD UP while undertaking my enormously important against-the-clock leisure drive; don't these people realise that the fact I'm in a bigger and dangerous vehicle with several hundred times as much power means I HAVE PRIORITY even though they were there first and are actually going quite fast for a narrow country lane. I'm going to damned well complain about it on my own cycling forum (I'm a cyclist too you know) as I HAVE TO GET IN FRONT and I can't possibly wait a few minutes until the road's actually wide enough to get my inappropriately wide mode of transport past without turning into a seething snarling foul-mouthed potentially aggressive yob and so is my wife".

Jesus Christ.


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## fossyant (27 Jul 2015)

The cyclist probably thought you were a considerate driver.

Don't overtake unless it's safe..

Just about everybody forgets this.

As a driver and cyclist (I now ride more than driving) you have to expect idiots. Chill.


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## Cyclist33 (27 Jul 2015)

Or the cyclist in question could at any point simply have indicated to the side and then pulled in to let the vehicle past, which is what I would have done, rightly or wrongly. I haven't seen the road in question but I'd be very surprised if there were literally nowhere I could have pulled up and to the side. It would have created a much happier situation all round.


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## theclaud (27 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> That anyone could turn _both me and my wife_ of all people, into seething, snarling, foul-mouthed and potentially aggressive yobs is quite an achievement.



Not really. In these cases the seething, snarling, foul-mouthed, aggressive yob has generally been there all along, just waiting for the chance to get out.


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## TheJDog (27 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Every turn I was due to make, yep ... he made it too.



Giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was thinking, I'm turning off soon, he won't be behind me for long, then you proceeded to follow him.


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## Alan Frame (27 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Stick-thin legs





Donger said:


> last time I saw a pair of legs like that they were hanging out of a nest.



The last time I saw legs like that they were on the winners podium in Paris.


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## jowwy (27 Jul 2015)

I wonder if the OP would have pulled over, if he was holding up a cyclist riding at speed as he was able to navigate the narrower, quieter roads, better than the motor vehicle..........im guessing not

@Donger


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> I wonder if the OP would have pulled over, if he was holding up a cyclist riding at speed as he was able to navigate the narrower, quieter roads, better than the motor vehicle..........im guessing not
> 
> @Donger


 Too right I would. Always. I hate having anyone on my tail. .... which is why I was so considerate for so long. Like i said earlier, live and let live ... modicum of decency etc.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Too right I would. Always. I hate having anyone on my tail. .... which is why I was so considerate for so long. Like i said earlier, live and let live ... modicum of decency etc.


So you would pull over for a cyclist if you was holding him up - i very much doubt that


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## 400bhp (28 Jul 2015)

replace cyclist with tractor or farm vehicle. Would you be on here ranting?

You have set an expectation that, because the person is on a bike, they have an obligation to move over.

Yeah, maybe he could have moved over, but given you are in a car and cars are a pretty pish poor commnunication device, you couldn't have a quiet word with him to ask if he could move over, so let your anger seethe over.

You could have actually stopped yourself and taken a breather (the couple of minutes which markymark referred to) and calmed down. Indeed, given you were on a country track, that tells me you weren't in a rush, and if you were then you shouldn't be driving down single track roads and expect to make fast progress.

Life is too short buddy. Your progress is no more important than the cyclist pottering down a country lane or a farmer going about his business.


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## w00hoo_kent (28 Jul 2015)

TheJDog said:


> Giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was thinking, I'm turning off soon, he won't be behind me for long, then you proceeded to follow him.


I mean, he'd picked out a nice cycle route on his map and was going for this 100 miler he'd had in mind for a while... :-)


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## Mugshot (28 Jul 2015)

400bhp said:


> replace cyclist with tractor or farm vehicle.


Isn't that so frustrating? I'll see some farmy type thing with monster queues of vehicles behind all sat there tootling along, stick me on the bike in front instead of the farmer in his tractor and all hell would break loose.


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## mythste (28 Jul 2015)

400bhp said:


> replace cyclist with tractor or farm vehicle. Would you be on here ranting?
> 
> You have set an expectation that, because the person is on a bike, they have an obligation to move over.
> 
> ...



Obligation < Ability.

As you were.


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

Foghat said:


> What a bizarre display of "I'm going to go driving a big noisy antisocial vehicle down some narrow lanes which are to a large number of walkers, cyclists and horse riders a refuge from the rest of the god-awful traffic-laden road network in this country (and which if I bother to think about it are of course far too narrow for me to expect to be able to make rapid or easy progress among other road users in my inappropriately wide choice of conveyance), yet complain that other people don't bloody vacate the road by actually completely stopping for me, and for every other big wide noisy antisocial pollution dispenser that comes up behind them in the middle of their really quite decent 15-20mph progress, and getting off MY BLOODY ROAD onto the grass so that I DON'T GET HELD UP while undertaking my enormously important against-the-clock leisure drive; don't these people realise that the fact I'm in a bigger and dangerous vehicle with several hundred times as much power means I HAVE PRIORITY even though they were there first and are actually going quite fast for a narrow country lane. I'm going to damned well complain about it on my own cycling forum (I'm a cyclist too you know) as I HAVE TO GET IN FRONT and I can't possibly wait a few minutes until the road's actually wide enough to get my inappropriately wide mode of transport past without turning into a seething snarling foul-mouthed potentially aggressive yob and so is my wife".
> 
> Jesus Christ.


 
Hmmm! Dear me. Where do I start? You seem to have somehow missed the following points made in my OP and subsequent posts. ...That I have actually....
a) Displayed a fair degree of self deprecation (recognising that it is bad to get wound up in circumstances like this and acknowledging my failure in this respect) . I fact, the very fact that I got myself wound up is the only actual criticism I could lay at my own door in this case. It was really the point of my post .. that crap cyclists can even wind _me _up, much to my own surprise. Everything else you accuse me of is all in your own vivid imagination. You weren't there.
b) Pointed out that I didn't actually overtake the crap cyclist or put him in any danger, but mildly turned away and went in a different direction.
c) Corrected the false impression I originally gave as to the distance between me and the crap cyclist (nobody wants to read an extra 3 paragraphs time-lining the incident with forensic accuracy). I had made a couple of aborted careful attempts to get past him.... which, if you think about it, actually requires you to get 0 feet behind the person you are overtaking, followed by minus 10 feet, minus 20 feet etc ..!
d) That I myself , when cycling down narrow lanes, _do_ pull over for cars when safe to do so. And I would most definitely have done so in these exact circumstances. Because I am a reasonable person. Why on earth would you not? You give the impression that you would never do so.... Which says much about yourself. Both cyclist and driver were, on this occasion, out for leisure rides, so it should have been a pleasurable experience for both.

I could also have pointed out (given yet another paragraph) that I drive a small hybrid car. It did actually occur to me for a half mile or so that he was unaware of the presence of my small, silent vehicle - which was in electric mode because I was going so slow. Before anyone feels like cross-examining me on this point, No... he was not unaware, because he looked over his shoulder a couple of times. The road was straight, mostly pan flat, and perfectly safe for 30mph driving. I only saw one or two other cars, so repaying me for my patience and understanding on any one of half a dozen opportunities by letting me past would have been the right thing to do.

I could go on, but I'm actually feeling rather chilled and mellow right now, having long since vented all my annoyance . By the way, it is OK to complain about cyclists you know ... nothing about the fact that you are riding a bike makes you immune to criticism if you are crap at it.

As to you, ...."what a bizarre display" (to use your own words) of over-reaction and misdirected venting. Never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion, eh? Oh, and by the way, that liberal sprinkling of block capital words and phrases within ranting letters is one of the classic signs of psycopathic tendencies, Calm down, Sir, and keep taking the pills. Enjoy your cycling, and don't forget to be nice to other road users.Like I have already said, "Live and let live". Country lanes can be wonderful for everybody if we will all play nicely.
_Donger_.


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> So you would pull over for a cyclist if you was holding him up - i very much doubt that


 Then doubt no more. I have already previously done so.


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## Lemond (28 Jul 2015)

Was riding in France last week and really struggling up a long, grinding hill. A car sat behind me for an absolute age and could have easily passed me on numerous occasions. When I finally reached the top I looked over and gave an apologetic nod and the best "merci" I could muster. As he slowly and carefully passed me - really wide - he gave me a smile, a thumbs up and blew out his cheeks acknowledging my pain. I couldn't believe just how different the attitude was over there. Only came across one nobber the entire week who passed far too close and forced me onto the grass; everyone else passed slowly and really wide, often overly so. Incredible experience and made cycling on unfamiliar roads so stress free.


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## coffeejo (28 Jul 2015)

Lemond said:


> Was riding in France last week and really struggling up a long, grinding hill. A car sat behind me for an absolute age and could have easily passed me on numerous occasions. When I finally reached the top I looked over and gave an apologetic nod and the best "merci" I could muster. As he slowly and carefully passed me - really wide - he gave me a smile, a thumbs up and blew out his cheeks acknowledging my pain. I couldn't believe just how different the attitude was over there. Only came across one nobber the entire week who passed far too close and forced me onto the grass; everyone else passed slowly and really wide, often overly so. Incredible experience and made cycling on unfamiliar roads so stress free.


I've had loads of experiences like that here in the UK. Thumbs up from passengers in cars as I crawl up a hill, cars waiting for me at the top of a climb and grinning at me when I make it, even a tractor-driver cheered me on earlier this year.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Yeah, not bothered by it. Live and let live. Yet felt the need to start a thread about it. 

Do you start threads on other forums about things you're really not that bothered about like people who chew loudly or people wearing striped ties with striped shirts? 

My gut feeling is you were more annoyed than now you are trying to make out.


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

Lemond said:


> Was riding in France last week and really struggling up a long, grinding hill. A car sat behind me for an absolute age and could have easily passed me on numerous occasions. When I finally reached the top I looked over and gave an apologetic nod and the best "merci" I could muster. As he slowly and carefully passed me - really wide - he gave me a smile, a thumbs up and blew out his cheeks acknowledging my pain. I couldn't believe just how different the attitude was over there. Only came across one nobber the entire week who passed far too close and forced me onto the grass; everyone else passed slowly and really wide, often overly so. Incredible experience and made cycling on unfamiliar roads so stress free.


 Nice! That's the way to do it. I'm sure nobody would expect you to pull over on a steep hill. I too love cycling in France and would echo your observations about the drivers there. You really feel that the roads ar shared.


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## Spinney (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Nice! That's the way to do it. I'm sure nobody would expect you to pull over on a steep hill. I too love cycling in France and would echo your observations about the drivers there. You really feel that the roads ar shared.


On the other hand, while cycling up the (shallower) side of the Bealach na Ba, the worst nobbers who passed far too close were in cars with an F sticker on them...


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## Mugshot (28 Jul 2015)

Spinney said:


> On the other hand, while cycling up the (shallower) side of the Bealach na Ba, the worst nobbers who passed far too close were in cars with an F sticker on them...


The closest pass I have ever witnessed was in France, I was in a bus travelling between Nice and Monaco, the driver got so close to the cyclist on his way up the hill that I breathed in for him. Had the window been open I could have very easily applied his rear brake, which I'm assuming would have been on the right hand side of his handlebars. I suppose though that in that neck of the woods the French are nearly Italian.


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Yeah, not bothered by it. Live and let live. Yet felt the need to start a thread about it.
> 
> Do you start threads on other forums about things you're really not that bothered about like people who chew loudly or people wearing striped ties with striped shirts?
> 
> My gut feeling is you were more annoyed than now you are trying to make out.


 No, the entire (consistent) point that I have been making is that I _was very_ annoyed. ... i.e. the effect that crap cycling can have on even good, considerate road users - and which I _was_ bothered about. As for "Live and let live", I meant exactly what I said. Both cyclists and drivers should be prepared to share the road and be considerate to each other. Where's the inconsistency? Should I have indulged in a nice bout of holding up day-tripping Laaaandoners round my local lanes the other day? After all, clearly none of us should ever give way to any nasty car .. ever.


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## w00hoo_kent (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> (nobody wants to read an extra 3 paragraphs time-lining the incident with forensic accuracy)


Have you not been around here long? :-)


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## MrGrumpy (28 Jul 2015)

This really has decended into a slagging match now, for what its worth. If you are slow moving and holding up traffic, why not move over where safe to do so to allow people to pass ?? I do it all the time when towing, I certainly don`t sit there and say damm you all I have a right to sit here and keep you all back for as long as I wish!! I think the main issue here is that there are two sides to all of this and neither is willing to budge, geezo grow the hell up, I hate this two camp scenario, live and let live we need to earn that respect.


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## Mugshot (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> c) Corrected the false impression I originally gave as to the distance between me and the crap cyclist (nobody wants to read an extra 3 paragraphs time-lining the incident with forensic accuracy). I had made a couple of aborted careful attempts to get past him.... which, if you think about it, actually requires you to get 0 feet behind the person you are overtaking, followed by minus 10 feet, minus 20 feet etc ..!


Not making judgements on the general point of your OP but I have to say I detest this when somebody does it to me, if it's safe to pass you'll get past me if it isn't you probably wont unless you force me over, if you keep trying and failing you're making bad judgement calls and you're really not going to endear yourself to me or make me feel any more inclined to move over for you, in fact I have been know to stop and tell people that are doing similar to get knotted.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

i believe the rules of the road state - that you stay behind the slower moving vehicle until it is safe to pass

it doesnt state that slower moving vehicle should move to one side and let the agressive, abnoxious tin box user to pass


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## Profpointy (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> i believe the rules of the road state - that you stay behind the slower moving vehicle until it is safe to pass
> 
> it doesnt state that slower moving vehicle should move to one side and let the agressive, abnoxious tin box user to pass



I rather thought it did say that, in different words.

To the OP you have committed the serious sin of daring to criticise a cyclist, who by definition can do no wrong


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## mjr (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> d) That I myself , when cycling down narrow lanes, _do_ pull over for cars when safe to do so. And I would most definitely have done so in these exact circumstances. Because I am a reasonable person. Why on earth would you not? You give the impression that you would never do so....



I do pull over sometimes if there's a space - my usual group rides even pull over sometimes if there's a big enough gap - but if I was on my thin-tyred road bike, I would probably not pull into what you described in the OP as:



Donger said:


> a grassy "passing place" or a farm entrance



because farm entrances are typically full of punctureful debris and the grass on the verge conceals drainage channels and rabbit holes which can wreck a wheel, body, or worse.

It is the right and responsibility of the person in front to decide what's a safe place for their vehicle to pull over, not the impatient nobber behind. You may disagree with their decision, but it does not necessarily make them a crap cyclist.


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## Spinney (28 Jul 2015)

User said:


> What did the F stand for in that instance?


France

As you would expect from the context of my post.


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## theclaud (28 Jul 2015)

ASJT


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## w00hoo_kent (28 Jul 2015)

This is why, wherever possible, I don't ride on anything less than a car and a half wide.


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## Inertia (28 Jul 2015)

If I can let the driver past I usually will but Im not going to doff my cap and scarper out of the way.

If someone is particularly polite I will make the extra effort but I usually find out they were only waiting because they had almost reached their destination and pull in embarrsingly behind me.


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

I tend to pull over and stop in these situations allowing the vehicles to pass, it is common courtesy, he was being a road hog! To use an old phrase.

You get to a point where you feel like drawing along side winding down the window and giving him a gentle nudge into a ditch.


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## mjr (28 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> I tend to pull over and stop in these situations allowing the vehicles to pass, it is common courtesy, he was being a road hog! To use an old phrase.


That's far from clear from the description. Maybe the OP would like to link to the road concerned so we could see if there was a safe place to stop or not?




> You get to a point where you feel like drawing along side winding down the window and giving him a gentle nudge into a ditch.


No, I really don't. You should see someone about that anger problem and not drive until it's resolved.


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

My wife has a bit of a gripe against cyclists who refuse to use cycle lanes especially when one has been built for that purpose. She asked her colleagues at work that cycle why they do so and was told that on the cycle lane they have to stop at every road junction whereas vehicles don't.


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## Glow worm (28 Jul 2015)

User said:


> What did the F stand for in that instance?



Perhaps the Y had fallen off?!


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## Ihatehills (28 Jul 2015)

400bhp said:


> replace cyclist with tractor or farm vehicle. Would you be on here ranting?
> 
> You have set an expectation that, because the person is on a bike, they have an obligation to move over.
> 
> ...


No, he wouldn't be on a cycling forum moaning about an incident that didnt involve cycling, there probably are tractor forums where there is constant venting, just saying .
Also its alot more difficult to pull a tractor over especially on a narrow road and if one does go sailing past an obvious lay by there normally is a lot of whinging ( at least here in Cornwall) on local radio and the likes


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## glasgowcyclist (28 Jul 2015)

User said:


> Can you get that on a T-shirt?



On one of yours? Probably.


GC


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## Tim Hall (28 Jul 2015)

User said:


> Quite literally.


I was hoping for "Fearfully Close".


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

I can't drive or cycle for a while at the moment ,just come out of hospital keyhole surgery. Come to think of it I can't do very much apart from reading these posts.


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## theclaud (28 Jul 2015)

Ihatehills said:


> there probably are tractor forums


Srsly?


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## Ihatehills (28 Jul 2015)

Yup 
http://www.mytractorforum.com/
;-)


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## Profpointy (28 Jul 2015)

theclaud said:


> Srsly?



I'd be astonished if there weren't tracto forums.


And it must be said, Tractors do tend to pull over to let faster vehicles past if going any distance. As do I if in a motorvehicle - hey I let people past whilst on a 1000 cc motorcycle, simply by easing off at a straight bit. Local cars were able to make faster progress than me, a timid returner to mc's so it it was courteous to let em go


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## theclaud (28 Jul 2015)

Ihatehills said:


> Yup
> http://www.mytractorforum.com/
> ;-)


Well I never.


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## tyred (28 Jul 2015)

I just don't understand why you wouldn't pull over to let a car through in those circumstances. Yes it is your right _not to do so_ and that is entirely the rider's prerogative but what do you gain?

If you let the car past, the driver can continue his/her journey at their desired speed without the building stress of perceiving they're being held up, the cyclist can continue the journey in peace and quiet without the stress of having a car sitting behind so everyone is happy and relaxed.

Or you can try to prove a point and unnecessarily irritate people. Live and let live, life is way to short to waste by creating unnecessary tension.


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## Lemond (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Nice! That's the way to do it. *I'm sure nobody would expect you to pull over on a steep hill*. I too love cycling in France and would echo your observations about the drivers there. You really feel that the roads ar shared.



Sure, but he still had loads of room to pass, but still chose to stay where he was. It was a really nice thing to do on his part and made such a difference to me. I was able to relax a little and spin my way up.

Then again, maybe he was having a right old chuckle watching me suffer!


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## Lemond (28 Jul 2015)

coffeejo said:


> I've had loads of experiences like that here in the UK. Thumbs up from passengers in cars as I crawl up a hill, cars waiting for me at the top of a climb and grinning at me when I make it, even a tractor-driver cheered me on earlier this year.



I wish I could say the same. They really do seem to get it right over there. The only thing I struggled with was that the camber could be quite aggressive in places, which took a little getting used to.


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## Arjimlad (28 Jul 2015)

Well, I rode home along a single track road with passing spaces and I pull over halfway along to let the cars pass. Then when they all get stuck in a traffic jam 300yds up the road because the chap coming the other way cannot reverse in a straight line, I sail past them all again. Had too many impatient people behind me over the years. I will usually pull over even to a stop to let cars pass at regular intervals on such a road. Do as you would be done by ?


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> I just don't understand why you wouldn't pull over to let a car through in those circumstances. Yes it is your right _not to do so_ and that is entirely the rider's prerogative but what do you gain?
> 
> If you let the car past, the driver can continue his/her journey at their desired speed without the building stress of perceiving they're being held up, the cyclist can continue the journey in peace and quiet without the stress of having a car sitting behind so everyone is happy and relaxed.
> 
> Or you can try to prove a point and unnecessarily irritate people. Live and let live, life is way to short to waste by creating unnecessary tension.


Because there was no safe place for him to do so - thats the point


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## tyred (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Because there was no safe place for him to do so - thats the point



I find that hard to believe over the course of a number of miles. The OP refers to farm entrances and grassy passing places so it is not true to say there was nowhere to pull over.


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## mjr (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> I find that hard to believe over the course of a number of miles. The OP refers to farm entrances and grassy passing places so it is not true to say there was nowhere to pull over.


There are some narrow roads with no passing places for a couple of miles on the fens. I explained why some farm entrances aren't safe for some bikes and passing places are usually tarmac not grassy - grass usually means the verge and dangers lurk under the grass.


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## Inertia (28 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> There are some narrow roads with no passing places for a couple of miles on the fens. I explained why some farm entrances aren't safe for some bikes and passing places are usually tarmac not grassy - grass usually means the verge and *dangers lurk under the grass*.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> I find that hard to believe over the course of a number of miles. The OP refers to farm entrances and grassy passing places so it is not true to say there was nowhere to pull over.


Why should a cyclist get off his bike and climb onto a grass verge to allow a car to pass?

Do tractors drive into the hedges to let cars by? Do dumper trucks? Etc......no they dont

Just cause hes a cyclist it doesnt mean he has to stop and climb off to let people pass


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> I find that hard to believe over the course of a number of miles. The OP refers to farm entrances and grassy passing places so it is not true to say there was nowhere to pull over.


He also refers to everytime one of these places came available, cars were coming in the other direction, which made it more difficult to stop safely


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## tyred (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Why should a cyclist get off his bike and climb onto a grass verge to allow a car to pass?
> 
> Do tractors drive into the hedges to let cars by? Do dumper trucks? Etc......no they dont
> 
> Just cause hes a cyclist it doesnt mean he has to stop and climb off to let people pass



Because a bike is small, light and it can be easily done. Not so with a dumper truck.

You don't need to do it if your bike is so fragile it can't cope with a little bit of grass but it's a thing called courtesy and works both ways.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

I will bet my wife's bike that there weren't safe places to overtake nicely which wouldn't involve great inconvenience to the cyclist.

It was a country lane ffs, don't use it if getting somewhere fast is your priority. The op had to drive for 2 WHOLE MILES. This isn't about the cyclist being inconsiderate it's about a driver wanting a cyvlist to stop, lose momentum in a grassy patch to save a driver a few minutes of their perceived more important progress.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> Because a bike is small, light and it can be easily done. Not so with a dumper truck.
> 
> You don't need to do it if your bike is so fragile it can't cope with a little bit of grass but it's a thing called courtesy and works both ways.


I couldnt give a monkeys if the bike is small, why should he go to that inconvience just for the sake of two miles at 15/20mph.....so approx 6 mins of the drivers time 

Sheesh........good job he wasnt driving on the country roads around me


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## tyred (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> I couldnt give a monkeys if the bike is small, why should he go to that inconvience just for the sake of two miles at 15/20mph.....so approx 6 mins of the drivers time
> 
> Sheesh........good job he wasnt driving on the country roads around me



That's okay, you make your choice, I'll make mine but don't complain if some tosspot takes offence and remember that courtesy works both ways.

I live in a rural area with an awful lot of single track roads and whether driving or cycling, it is normal to pull into a farm entrance or whatever to let faster traffic past. Neither my bikes or cars have suffered any ill effects from doing so.


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## Spinney (28 Jul 2015)




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## mjr (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> That's okay, you make your choice, I'll make mine but don't complain if some tosspot takes offence and remember that courtesy works both ways.


Does it? I struggle to remember the last motorist who pulled over to let me overtake when I was travelling faster on a cycle - I can remember more cases where MGIF kicked in, there was a bad overtake followed by hard braking in front of me for an obstruction that I could have passed but their fat car couldn't!



> I live in a rural area with an awful lot of single track roads and whether driving or cycling, it is normal to pull into a farm entrance or whatever to let faster traffic past. Neither my bikes or cars have suffered any ill effects from doing so.


Ah, the storied land of Ireland, where every farm gateway is well-maintained! If that's true, then I wish Irish farmers owned more of our farms


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## w00hoo_kent (28 Jul 2015)

The important thing is, after the recce, is the OP going to use that bit of road for their 100 or not? It doesn't sound that suitable to me.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

What im struggling with here is - the cyclist must inconvenience himself, so he doesnt inconvinience the driver/op and in doing so, saving the driver/op a few minutes of his time, while putting himself at risk

If it was me, i would carry on cycling until i found a safe and convinient place to slow down and pull to oneside allowing the monster truck to go by. If no such place, then he can wait. As my own safety is my concern and not the drivers preciuos few minutes.

If its different in ireland then enjoy the sanctiary and freedom of the roads with out the inconvinience of inconvinience


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> The important thing is, after the recce, is the OP going to use that bit of road for their 100 or not? It doesn't sound that suitable to me.


And is he prepared to come to a stop 30 or 40 times to let each oh-so-important car passed?


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> You get to a point where you feel like drawing along side winding down the window and giving him a gentle nudge into a ditch.


Then you should have your drivers licence revoked and made to walk everywhere on one leg - as the above sort of actions is what causes serious accidents and endangers lives


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## Katherine (28 Jul 2015)

It doesn't make sense to hold people up if there are passing places to use, whoever is behind you. 

I was held up on a country road once by an idiot cyclist who went out of his way to stop me passing at several passing places. I obviously went a bit closer to him at the first passing place in anticipation. Then I had one more try at the next one, then I just had to crawl along for a few miles until we got to our turn off. It was ridiculous and going slowly was a waste of petrol and produced more exhaust. I was taking a car full of kids to a country park to climb trees, play hide and seek and generally enjoy the countryside just as he was doing. It's not even nice cycling along with cars behind.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

There's a difference here between moving to the left and slowing a little at a safe place to let a car pass and stopping in a grass patch and unclipping losing momentum and energy for this and possibly many other equally needy cars. 

The op expected the latter.


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## mjr (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> What im struggling with here is - the cyclist must inconvenience himself, so he doesnt inconvinience the driver/op and in doing so, saving the driver/op a few minutes of his time, while putting himself at risk


I don't have a problem with that as such. In fact, there's some evidence that I do that almost every trip because I use some cycleways with known-dangerous design flaws rather than the adjacent carriageway - in short, I'm hoping that knowing the dangers means that I take action to mitigate them makes it less dangerous than the punishment-pass lottery of mad motorists on the very busy carriageway. I do curse both the mad motorists and the incompetent cycleway designers as I crawl out past each low-visibility corner, though...

So the problems I saw were that the places suggested as suitable for stopping sound unsafe to ride on and that the motorist seemed to be following too close.


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

As road users we should all get along together , if I see a motorcyclist approaching from behind I try to pull over to left to let them by, they usually signal thanks. The same goes for fast cars that you know will soon be far off in the distance. If I saw a cyclist stopped by the road in a desperate situation I would stop to ask if they needed help. So in the case of the inconsiderate cyclist he could have just stopped to let the car go by so allowing him to continue his journey. It isn't nice to hear the sound of a vehicle following close behind anyway.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> As road users we should all get along together , if I see a motorcyclist approaching from behind I try to pull over to left to let them by, they usually signal thanks. The same goes for fast cars that you know will soon be far off in the distance. If I saw a cyclist stopped by the road in a desperate situation I would stop to ask if they needed help. So in the case of the inconsiderate cyclist he could have just stopped to let the car go by so allowing him to continue his journey. It isn't nice to hear the sound of a vehicle following close behind anyway.


Should he stop for say, 30 cars seperately if they were all on a long stretch of single track road?


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Should he stop for say, 30 cars seperately if they were all on a long stretch of single track road?


No he shouldnt - simple as that really


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> No he shouldnt - simple as that really


So maybe the op was the 30th. Maybe not. Who cares. The guy was cycling and didn't stop for any number of reasons.


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

What if it was an ambulance or a person in desperate need to get to hospital.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> What if it was an ambulance or a person in desperate need to get to hospital.


It wasnt


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## youngoldbloke (28 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> There are some narrow roads with no passing places for a couple of miles on the fens. I explained why some farm entrances aren't safe for some bikes and passing places are usually tarmac not grassy - grass usually means the verge and dangers lurk under the grass.


That's amazing - what happens when 2 cars travelling in opposite directions meet in the middle of such as stretch? does one of them reverse for a mile or so? How do they negotiate this? Are you seriously saying that it is dangerous for a cyclist to pull over to the side of such roads and come to a halt? I'm staying away from the fens if that's the case!


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> What if it was an ambulance or a person in desperate need to get to hospital.


They would have put the siren on.

So your thought process is that cyclists shoukd give wsy to all cars as they may be in an emergency?? ffs. Maybe the cyclist was racing home to his dying wife.

The ludicrous scenarios beibg created to justify the cyclist bowing out to the car is pathetic.


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> I couldnt give a monkeys if the bike is small, why should he go to that inconvience just for the sake of two miles at 15/20mph.....so approx 6 mins of the drivers time
> 
> Sheesh........good job he wasnt driving on the country roads around me


Or about 5 seconds of the cyclists time.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> Or about 5 seconds of the cyclists time.


Shoukd he stop 30 or 40 times for each car he may meet on country lanes?


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> Or about 5 seconds of the cyclists time.


Im sure it would be quite a fair bit more than 5 seconds to brake, stop, dismount, move to one side ( tight narrow lanes) re-mount and then get back upto speed..........all when theres no safe place to stop


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Im sure it would be quite a fair bit more than 5 seconds to brake, stop, dismount, move to one side ( tight narrow lanes) re-mount and then get back upto speed..........all when theres no safe place to stop


I've yet to find a road, even a single track road, where I cannot just pull the bike in right to the verge, put my left foot down, lean the bike to the left, let the car past, and then get back on my way.

Don't know if it's been previously mentioned, but such actions might just prevent the next cyclist that the driver comes across from being on the receiving end of a punishment pass.


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> I've yet to find a road, even a single track road, where I cannot just pull the bike in right to the verge, put my left foot down, lean the bike to the left, let the car past, and then get back on my way.
> 
> Don't know if it's been previously mentioned, but such actions might just prevent the next cyclist that the driver comes across from being on the receiving end of a punishment pass.


When in traffc and druving do you pull over, stop and let cyclusts passed so they don't get annoyed and take off the door mirror of a another car some other time? I mean, in heavy traffic you stoppbg will only take you a few seconds.


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2015)

I cycle in town nearly every day. Do drivers in traffic jams pull over to let me pass? Do they fark.


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## Katherine (28 Jul 2015)

Dan B said:


> I cycle in town nearly every day. Do drivers in traffic jams pull over to let me pass? Do they fark.


Traffic jams don't have passing places.


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## Ihatehills (28 Jul 2015)

I'd like to know where these single track country roads are with 30 to 40 cars on in a two mile stretch


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Katherine said:


> Traffic jams don't have passing places.


Yeah they do, you can just pull over.


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2015)

Katherine said:


> Traffic jams don't have passing places.


Must of the roads I ride are plenty wide enough to let a bike pass a car if the driver pulls in to the gutter. But no, they all insist on driving with one wheel practically abutting the centre line


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## Markymark (28 Jul 2015)

Ihatehills said:


> I'd like to know where these single track country roads are with 30 to 40 cars on in a two mile stretch


I've done 30 odd miles on single track roads. Easily seen that number of cars in it. Should I stop for each one?


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> When in traffc and druving do you pull over, stop and let cyclusts passed so they don't get annoyed and take off the door mirror of a another car some other time? I mean, in heavy traffic you stoppbg will only take you a few seconds.


I do whatever I can to make life easier for my fellow road users. For example, when in slow moving traffic queues whilst driving an HGV, or even a car, I will move over wherever possible to allow the safe passage of filtering motorbikes and cyclists.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Shoukd he stop 30 or 40 times for each car he may meet on country lanes?


Well, if you're slow (like me), find yourself on a unexpectedly busy country road on a remote island, uphill to boot, of course you need to stop as many times as it's needed. In the case I've stated, both the cars and my group were trying to catch a ferry. The faster cyclists in my group didn't have to stop as many times as I did. If you're slow, as the OP's cyclist seems to have been, there's no point in antagonizing other road users, imo.


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

I think I've read all posts on this thread but may have skipped some, so forgive me if this has already been quoted.

Highway code, rule 155:
*155*
Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, *or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right.* Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.


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## Herbie (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Too right I would. Always. I hate having anyone on my tail. .... which is why I was so considerate for so long. Like i said earlier, live and let live ... modicum of decency etc.




Are you wishing you never started this thread?


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> I do whatever I can to make life easier for my fellow road users. For example, when in slow moving traffic queues whilst driving an HGV, or even a car, I will move over wherever possible to allow the safe passage of filtering motorbikes and cyclists.


You are a prince among motorists. However I fear your efforts are in vain in the usual case that the vehicles in front and behind you don't do likewise


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Ihatehills said:


> I'd like to know where these single track country roads are with 30 to 40 cars on in a two mile stretch


Plenty of them in south wales mate - cycle quite a lot of them each weekend, cars are used to it around here and so are cyclists........cars pass when safe to do so and cyclist pull over when they feel its safe to do so...........but if a car/cyclist doesnt stop and let the other through, i dont then jump on a cycling forum and complain about it.......i just crack on with my life and out it down to hey ho, he has a right not to as he has much right on the road as me 

Same as tractors, dumpers, buses, lorrys, hgv's, motorbikes or hogs


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> hogs


Oh come on. I agree with the rest of this, but Harley riders? Really?


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Dan B said:


> Oh come on. I agree with the rest of this, but Harley riders? Really?


Why not.........likes a harley me


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

It actually worries me that there are some cyclists (allegedly) on the roads who seem to think it is ok to hold up faster moving traffic when it can be easily avoided.

No wonder that a sizeable number of drivers see us as self righteous nobbers and would happily have us banned from the roads. You're really not doing our cause any good.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> I think I've read all posts on this thread but may have skipped some, so forgive me if this has already been quoted.
> 
> Highway code, rule 155:
> *155*
> Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, *or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right.* Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders.


It also states in the highway code, do not stop in asl, use mobiles when driving, break the speed limit, drink and drive, use the vehicle as a weapon, give cyclist as much space when overtaking as you would a car......need i go on


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> It actually worries me that there are some cyclists (allegedly) on the roads who seem to think it is ok to hold up faster moving traffic when it can be easily avoided.
> 
> No wonder that a sizeable number of drivers see us as self righteous nobbers and would happily have us banned from the roads. You're really not doing our cause any good.


It also worries me that vehicle drivers believe that other road users should stop and let them through as if they have a god given right to go passed


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

Dan B said:


> You are a prince among motorists. However I fear your efforts are in vain in the usual case that the vehicles in front and behind you don't do likewise


Your location says London. Enough said. There are different rules for everything down there and using ANYTHING on the road is not for the faint hearted.

Come up to Glasgow and ride a motorbike through the rush hour traffic on the M8; generally speaking it is like the parting of the Red Sea as motorists move over a foot or two (that's all it takes) to let you filter through. There will always be the odd nobber who sees you as a queue jumper and will try to slam the door on you, but they're probably visitors from London .


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> It also states in the highway code, do not stop in asl, use mobiles when driving, break the speed limit, drink and drive, use the vehicle as a weapon, give cyclist as much space when overtaking as you would a car......need i go on


Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Donger (28 Jul 2015)

Herbie said:


> Are you wishing you never started this thread?


I was at one point! But it is actually a fascinating exercise in people watching..... Seeing some people's imaginative narratives of something I alone actually witnessed now taking on a much more exciting life all of their own. It now seems I was driving some sort of Humvee at about 90mph while breathing down the neck of some poor exemplary cyclist.... in one of those single track lanes with man traps in every gateway and constantly packed with lines of "30 or 40" other similar speed freaks. I am a little worried that I might soon start being quoted in the "Death Penalty" thread, but am otherwise just sitting back and enjoying the show. I think some people might simply have given up on trying to persuade @Marmion of the benefits of Westminster rule in Scotland and are looking for another intellectual skirmish somewhere other than in the Society, Culture and Politics thread.


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## jowwy (28 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right.


You quoted the highway code mate, i just added to it.........your right, two wrongs dont make a right

But in this case who says the cyclist is in the wrong to do what he did????


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## Herbie (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> I was at one point! But it is actually a fascinating exercise in people watching..... Seeing some people's imaginative narratives of something I alone actually witnessed now taking on a much more exciting life all of their own. It now seems I was driving some sort of Humvee at about 90mph while breathing down the neck of some poor exemplary cyclist.... in one of those single track lanes with man traps in every gateway and constantly packed with lines of "30 or 40" other similar speed freaks. I am a little worried that I might soon start being quoted in the "Death Penalty" thread, but am otherwise just sitting back and enjoying the show. I think some people might simply have given up on trying to persuade @Marmion of the benefits of Westminster rule in Scotland and are looking for another intellectual skirmish somewhere other than in the Society, Culture and Politics thread.




There will be wanted dead or alive posters appearing for you soon .....public enemy number one


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## 400bhp (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Went out in the car today to do a reccie for a route for my first ever 100 miler..



How odd. Just ride the feckin thing


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## 400bhp (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> , I could tell it was actually a MAMIL, though he looked about 14.



So you had a negative opinion of him beforehand


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## 400bhp (28 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> That anyone could turn _both me and my wife_ of all people, into seething, snarling, foul-mouthed and potentially aggressive yobs is quite an achievement.



Feck me. He managed to get_ you and your wife_ agitated. Wow, he did well removing the sticks from your asses.


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## Alan Frame (28 Jul 2015)

It all comes down to common courtesy and I often give way to others, when appropriate, as a pedestrian, cyclist and also as a motorist.

I really can't be arsed to self-righteously insist on enforcing my perceived rights over something so trivial and I am secure enough to not feel that giving way is a sign of weakness or an affront to my masculinity... I just happen to believe in making life as simple, smooth and enjoyable as possible.


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## tyred (28 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> But in this case who says the cyclist is in the wrong to do what he did????



Not saying he was wrong as he is within his rights.

However he is inconsiderate (imo). He had a single car behind him, it would have taken only a few seconds to have let the car past, and both parties could have continued their journey and everyone would have been happy. Instead he choose to pointlessly antagonize another road user.


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## 400bhp (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> Not saying he was wrong as he is within his rights.
> 
> However he is inconsiderate (imo). He had a single car behind him, it would have taken only a few seconds to have let the car past, and both parties could have continued their journey and everyone would have been happy. Instead he choose to pointlessly antagonize another road user.



No, mr pompous and his wife would be happy. We can't comment on the cyclist as he's not here to defend himself.


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> Instead he choose to pointlessly antagonize another road user.


And as a direct result we have this thread of pure comedy gold. Law of Unintended Consequences?


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## Brandane (28 Jul 2015)

User said:


> You are quite right, so which should we address the more robustly, the ones that might have serious consequences or the ones that might slightly inconvenience someone?


You are quite right. We should deal with the nobber cyclist more robustly, before he causes a load of bad feeling towards others. For the sake of five seconds inconvenience. That IS what you meant, I assume?


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## snorri (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> And is he prepared to come to a stop 30 or 40 times to let each oh-so-important car passed?



.......... yes, and also prepared for the more likely occurrence of defending oneself from attacks from witches, dragons and werewolves.


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## snorri (28 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Yeah they do, you can just pull over.


Of course you can, that's what pavements are for.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (28 Jul 2015)




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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2015)

Stiring up hornet's nests seems to come to mind.


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## puffinbilly (28 Jul 2015)

OMG - this is comedy genius - I can feel protest marches for the ONE from or maybe not Cirencester coming on.

I agree with your points of courtesy on the road - BUT then in your title and first paragraph you destroy your own argument with some of the most vitriolic abuse. 

Courtesy - the showing of politeness in one's attitude and behaviour towards others.

We can't all be built like myself and Adonis and have legs hewn of the finest oak.


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

snorri said:


> Of course you can, that's what pavements are for.


Pavements on narrow country single track lanes - you havent read the thread have you?


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## glenn forger (29 Jul 2015)

We still don't know the road, the OP still hasn't named it so none of us has any idea if there was anywhere to safely pull over. Is the delay likely to have been exaggerated by someone who thinks the rider's physique is relevant? Probably. It's the same body-fascism that effects Kate Winslett's fertility.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

I only know of one single track lane 2 miles long east of Cirencester is Fairford.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> That's amazing - what happens when 2 cars travelling in opposite directions meet in the middle of such as stretch? does one of them reverse for a mile or so? How do they negotiate this? Are you seriously saying that it is dangerous for a cyclist to pull over to the side of such roads and come to a halt? I'm staying away from the fens if that's the case!


It is an amazing and beautiful landscape.

If two cars meet in the middle, then it's a failure of observation and action by both parties because those sections of fen road are usually long, straight and without close hedges, so you just pull over when you can before meeting oncoming traffic and wait - sometimes for a couple of minutes. You can't really drive the small fen roads in a rush - there are wider roads and even A and B roads for through motor traffic.

When two do meet, usually whoever is nearest or most manoeuvrable reverses to somewhere they can pull in. Farm entrances are usable by cars on wide low-pressure tyres, just like they are by MTBs, but a narrow high-pressure road bike tyre often sinks in.

I've not yet met an oncoming car on the fens when I've needed to reverse very far, but I have reversed a half-mile or more near a river crossing in mid-Norfolk. You just do it: if you're in a rush, you shouldn't be on such narrow lanes.

It really can be dangerous for a cyclist on a road bike to get near the edge of some of fen roads. They often have drains along both sides and the road edges can be ill-defined and unstable for various reasons. If you try to ride onto the verge in a road bike, you may well be getting wet, as what looks like a verge is sometimes just long grass at the top of the drain bank.

They're dangerous for motorists too. Several have died from straying off the road for some reason (usually suspected to be excessive speed), rolled into a drain and couldn't get out because their doors wedged shut against the banks. Basically, bad driving around here still risks a death penalty.

It's still good to cycle in the fens, though. There's plenty of small roads where most motorists are deterred by the death penalty, you can usually see and hear the remainder coming a long way off and most of them are relaxed and polite. The winds are a far stiffer challenge!


Brandane said:


> *or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right.*


Yebbut the reference to "grassy" makes me think they weren't passing places with the white square/diamond signs.


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## Brandane (29 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> Yebbut the reference to "grassy" makes me think they weren't passing places with the white square/diamond signs.


Give me strength! Do you really need a proper designated passing place to give a car space to get past? What do you do when you meet a car coming towards you on these roads? 
As I previously posted, I have yet to find any road where it isn't possible to stop briefly at the verge. I don't understand how you could find this dangerous, as in your post above. Someone previously claimed they couldn't do this as it would entail putting a foot down on the verge, and "danger lurks in the grass". FFS, if this is the risk assessment of grown men or women then we really are doomed as a race. Use your eyes!


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## glenn forger (29 Jul 2015)

The OP displays evidence of emotional instability and intolerance and should have their licence removed.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

I can remember a Comedy Playhouse sketch from the 60s based on the scenario of two cars meeting down a narrow country lane where neither driver would give way.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> Give me strength! Do you really need a proper designated passing place to give a car space to get past? What do you do when you meet a car coming towards you on these roads?


It doesn't need to be a designated passing place, but it needs to be safe. Cars coming towards us are much easier because we see them sooner and can find a safe place to stop - or they can, as often happens.



> As I previously posted, I have yet to find any road where it isn't possible to stop briefly at the verge. I don't understand how you could find this dangerous, as in your post above.


Come take a few falls into fen drains and then maybe you'll understand! 

This isn't a great example because it's just after a concrete farm yard that I would pull over onto, but the lovely lush verge on the left of https://goo.gl/maps/wVrqZ is actually a steep side of a drain that's at least 6ft deep. The tall grass gives a false impression of a fairly flat stable width. I'm wondering if the next streetview update will show the dent from the white van that tried to put its wheels on the verge and fell into the drain.



Brandane said:


> Someone previously claimed they couldn't do this as it would entail putting a foot down on the verge, and "danger lurks in the grass".



Yes, that "dangers lurk under the grass" comment was me being lazy. I don't entirely regret the abbreviation because of the wonderful picture posted in reply, but I had explained it a bit more fully a few posts earlier:



mjray said:


> the grass on the verge conceals drainage channels and rabbit holes which can wreck a wheel, body, or worse.
> 
> It is the right and responsibility of the person in front to decide what's a safe place for their vehicle to pull over, not the impatient nobber behind. You may disagree with their decision, but it does not necessarily make them a crap cyclist.


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## Brandane (29 Jul 2015)

glenn forger said:


> The OP displays evidence of emotional instability and intolerance and should have their licence removed.


There are a few posters on this thread who should have their bikes removed because they don't have a clue how to ride them in conjunction with other road users, show a complete disregard for rule 155 of the highway code, and cannot assess risk.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> I only know of one single track lane 2 miles long east of Cirencester is Fairford.


Which one's that then? I didn't spot one on the map longer than a mile.


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> There are a few posters on this thread who should have their bikes removed because they don't have a clue how to ride them in conjunction with other road users, show a complete disregard for rule 155 of the highway code, and cannot assess risk.


Really co in my 20+ years of driving and 5 odd years of cycling I never see cars pull over to let anything passed. In fact, usually when cycling I often see cars move over to stop a cyclist getting passed when they approach lights.


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## Profpointy (29 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Really co in my 20+ years of driving and 5 odd years of cycling I never see cars pull over to let anything passed. In fact, usually when cycling I often see cars move over to stop a cyclist getting passed when they approach lights.



well in that case the cyclist was quite right to punish the car driver - that'll teach 'em


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## Profpointy (29 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Really co in my 20+ years of driving and 5 odd years of cycling I never see cars pull over to let anything passed. In fact, usually when cycling I often see cars move over to stop a cyclist getting passed when they approach lights.



well in that case the cyclist was quite right to punish the car driver - that'll teach 'em


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2015)

Profpointy said:


> well in that case the cyclist was quite right to punish the car driver - that'll teach 'em


No, not about punishing them, but about doing what was convenient for the cyclist. Stopping and losing momentum on a country lane when the driver only has 2 miles at at fair old speed of 15-20mph(OP's description) does not sound like punishing at all. May I suggest if you feel that slowing down for a few minutes by a vulnerable road user is being punished, then you choose roads that are more suited to the speeds for your oh-so-important journey?


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> Which one's that then? I didn't spot one on the map longer than a mile.


 Think of RIAT, the place where they tested Concorde. It was a joke.


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## theclaud (29 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> Come take a few falls into fen drains and then maybe you'll understand!



To be fair, we're not talking about the fens, and you're overdoing the safety issue (although I'm with you in a general sort of way - I often meet oncoming cars who appear to expect me to swerve into gravel rather than than being prepared to stop and let me go by. The best way to deal with this is to play chicken and eyeball them until they stop, but you need to be prepared to bail if this doesn't work.) 

It's all a lot simpler than that. It's the cyclist's call. The perspective of the motorist behind doesn't matter much, and his assessment of whether the cyclist is being reasonable or not isn't worth the metaphorical paper it's printed on. Some cyclists will inevitably overdo it when it comes to managing traffic approaching from behind, but that doesn't matter much because it's just a small inconvenience to road users who are themselves a nuisance by definition. By far the more pressing problem is that most of us will feel pressured into being too indulgent.


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Pavements on narrow country single track lanes - you havent read the thread have you?


Yes I have, but my comment was in response to Post 127 by 0-markymark-0 who was referring to urban situations.


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> Use your eyes!


Please consider the blind and visually challenged.


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Brandane said:


> There are a few posters on this thread who should have their bikes removed because they don't have a clue how to ride them in conjunction with other road users, show a complete disregard for rule 155 of the highway code, and cannot assess risk.


You can quote rule 155 of the highway code as much as you want......

Drivers break the rules of the highway code everyday and yes two wrongs dont make a right......but if we are going by the rules, the driver wouldnt be allowed to pass the cyclist at any time in this scenario.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

Why should the motorist have his licence taken away? He behaved in a proper manner,he didn't force the cyclist to do anything but sat behind him until he could turn off.
What his thoughts were at the time and what they were may be entirely different and shouldn't count anyway.
As for the poor cyclist who can do no wrong should he have his cycle crushed for being a nuisance to other road users. He was lucky that the vehicle behind wasn't a UPS van, there's no stopping them.


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## Mugshot (29 Jul 2015)

theclaud said:


> The best way to deal with this is to play chicken and eyeball them until they stop, but you need to be prepared to bail if this doesn't work.)


I find I generally stand on the pedals too, I think it's a somewhat instinctive thing to make myself look bigger as I lack hackles, a throwback to some point in my evolution. Either that or my brain thinks if I stand up it'll be easier to jump out of the way, if that's what it is it's forgotten I'm clipped in!


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> I've done 30 odd miles on single track roads.


For one with such limited experience you don't half have a lot to say on the subject of single track roads.


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## theclaud (29 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> You can quote rule 155 of the highway code as much as you want......



He can, but it's largely irrelevant, because despite the claim that it is advice for all drivers and riders, the wording of the section clearly indicates it is conceived with motor vehicles, and specifically cars, in mind.


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Why should the motorist have his licence taken away? He behaved in a proper manner,he didn't force the cyclist to do anything but sat behind him until he could turn off.
> What his thoughts were at the time and what they were may be entirely different and shouldn't count anyway.
> As for the poor cyclist who can do no wrong should he have his cycle crushed for being a nuisance to other road users. He was lucky that the vehicle behind wasn't a UPS van, there's no stopping them.


In whos opinion was the cyclist being a nuisance to other road users?

Also the story has been put forward by only one side The Driver, how do we know the driver/ops version of events is correct......we dont, but many people are assuming they are and are acting accordingly within their replies


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2015)

snorri said:


> For one with such limited experience you don't half have a lot to say on the subject of single track roads.


No, I mean 30 miles in one journey on a single track road.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Why should the motorist have his licence taken away? He behaved in a proper manner


"at 15-20mph ... about 12 feet behind him" and "made a couple of aborted careful attempts to get past him" (not "sat behind him until he could turn off") is really what you'd call "a proper manner"?


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> "at 15-20mph ... about 12 feet behind him" and "made a couple of aborted careful attempts to get past him" (not "sat behind him until he could turn off") is really what you'd call "a proper manner"?


It did sound like something that could be interpreted by the rider as an impatient motorist and keeping up 15-20mph does make it harder to select a small opening to squeeze yourself in to to let them pass. The OP probably needs to add a big stencil to their bonnet "don't panic, I'm a cyclist really". But as they say, they were the only one there so what do we know.


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> No, I mean 30 miles in one journey on a single track road.


Yes that's what I said, limited experience.


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2015)

snorri said:


> Yes that's what I said, limited experience.


ok, think you know what I mean. Travel hundreds and hundreds of miles a year on single track roads. It is quite common to see quit a few cars in a single journey and see no need to stop for each and every one of them.


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> ok, think you know what I mean. Travel hundreds and hundreds of miles a year on single track roads. It is quite common to see quit a few cars in a single journey and see no need to stop for each and every one of them.


It is dependent on road width and positioning of passing places, driving/ cycling on the verge is a risky option, also damaging to drainage systems.
But hey we don't want to get too technical in this thread, it is just one big wind-up...................isn't it???


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

Was the cyclist on a time trial,deaf or what? I feel uncomfortable with vehicles following close behind me and will pull over if I feel that I am hindering them. Yes I will even dismount and stand on the verge if necessary, no there are no land mines, crocodiles or any other nasties lurking in the deep undergrowth here in Wiltshire. Pedestrians will do the same thing when vehicles approach, so what makes cyclists feel superior?
As for following 12 feet behind might be a bit close but wasn't breathing down his neck and if you consider how long that was 8 minutes. A long time if you watch it tick by.
Yes we have only one persons perspective on this incident but from the replies there are two definite camps forming. One on the motorists side and the other for the cyclist.
Unless both sides can coincide amicably I can see free cycling as we know it will disappear.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

No it means obey the rules of the road!


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## swansonj (29 Jul 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> The OP probably needs to add a big stencil to their bonnet "don't panic, I'm a cyclist really".


I often wish there were such a sign available. I quite often find myself, when driving, following a cyclist for a long period, because I choose not to overtake in marginal situations where most other drivers probably would. Then I see the cyclist getting visibly concerned that they are holding me up, presumably not being used to this sort of behaviour from motorists and possibly concerned I will be getting stressed and will take it out on them, and then either putting on a sprint or finding a place to stop so I can overtake. A "it's OK mate, you carry on, I'm a cyclist myself, it's fine" signal would be useful.


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

swansonj said:


> I often wish there were such a sign available. I quite often find myself, when driving, following a cyclist for a long period, because I choose not to overtake in marginal situations where most other drivers probably would. Then I see the cyclist getting visibly concerned that they are holding me up, presumably not being used to this sort of behaviour from motorists and possibly concerned I will be getting stressed and will take it out on them, and then either putting on a sprint or finding a place to stop so I can overtake. A "it's OK mate, you carry on, I'm a cyclist myself, it's fine" signal would be useful.


Likewise, my least traffic option drive home includes a lane where it would be tight to pass a car and bicycle. Which means of course that most cars barge through. I just sit and wait for a bicycle because I'm not a nobber, specifically on the bit with a hill you often see the cyclist either confused or pushing themselves in to the red to get out of my way as quickly as possible. I'd really prefer if they just continued what they were doing and let me wait.

Then again, expecting someone with a cycle rack on the top of their car to be any more considerate than any other cage driver can turn out to be a huge mistake. Doesn't stop me getting extra irate when the close pass comes in from someone with a bike stuffed in the back of their car who is obviously doing a cycle/drive commute just the same as me, only parks closer in.


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Was the cyclist on a time trial,deaf or what? I feel uncomfortable with vehicles following close behind me and will pull over if I feel that I am hindering them. Yes I will even dismount and stand on the verge if necessary, no there are no land mines, crocodiles or any other nasties lurking in the deep undergrowth here in Wiltshire. Pedestrians will do the same thing when vehicles approach, so what makes cyclists feel superior?
> As for following 12 feet behind might be a bit close but wasn't breathing down his neck and if you consider how long that was 8 minutes. A long time if you watch it tick by.
> Yes we have only one persons perspective on this incident but from the replies there are two definite camps forming. One on the motorists side and the other for the cyclist.
> Unless both sides can coincide amicably I can see free cycling as we know it will disappear.


What free cycling as we know it??? You mean cycling on roads with other traffic, where they think they are superior to the vulnerable road user and rule the roost........doesnt seem to free to me


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!


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## snorri (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!


No, yes, yes, possibly but there's little chance of anyone ever checking so I'm not too bothered.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> As for following 12 feet behind might be a bit _lethally_ close but wasn't breathing down his neck _and less than a third of the typical stopping distance at 20mph_ and if you consider how long that was 8 minutes. A long time if you watch it tick by.


FTFY.


Illaveago said:


> Yes we have only one persons perspective on this incident but from the replies there are two definite camps forming. One on the motorists side and the other for the cyclist.


I'm a motorist myself and the behaviour described in the OP makes me worried that we'll all be held responsible by some people, leading to a further deterioration in on-road behaviour, contrary to http://highwaycode.info/rule/147


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## Hacienda71 (29 Jul 2015)

This thread reminds me of a CC ride to Buxton a few years ago. I think @fossyant had arranged it. Longers, Skud up North, Dan_bo, Fossy and I were going up a very narrow climb in the Peak district near Whaley Bridge when a van came screaming up behind us. He had no intention of stopping and we literally had to climb up the grass embankments which were about three feet high, dragging our bikes with us to avoid being squashed. At least the OP was more patient than white van man.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

Your from the other camp I take it


User said:


> I do as it goes on a car.
> Yes by virtue of being a member of the CTC
> No because bikes don't have them
> No because bikes don't need it
> ...


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

User said:


> That would involve accepting that there are only two options here.


I thought it was a motorhome or a yurt and you had to pick sides. I didn't realise there was a Travelodge in the middle that people were also allowed in to.


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## Illaveago (29 Jul 2015)

When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.
Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.
> Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?


Who cares how they feel? It's pretty much harmless unlike driving behind someone too close which injures and kills pretty much daily.


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.



Thankful that cyclists are more obvious so the general public isn't making a huge point of how they RLJ, lane hog, tail gate, drive the wrong way up roads, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. Use mobile phones, eat, do their make up, and all that stuff? Or was it a trick question?



Illaveago said:


> Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?



Considering the thinking distance is the speed in feet, and the stopping distance was measured for a Morris Minor, probably the same 40ft as the car?


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## glasgowcyclist (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.



Why should I care how they feel?

GC


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.
> Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?


when drivers use mobiles, break speed limits, eat and drink while driving, jump red lights, over take on blind bends, sound their horns after midnight - how would expect road users to feel?

also the stopping distance of a bike at 20mph is insignificant to the argument, as it wouldn't cause the same damage as a car not stopping at the same speed, but well done for trying - also to add stopping a bike at 20mph with a 100kilo weight is probably a lot quicker than stopping a 1tonne metal machine at 20mph


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## User6179 (29 Jul 2015)

swansonj said:


> I often wish there were such a sign available



There is a sign ,drivers use it all the time to me, just hold your hand up and make your hand look like its holding a handlebar then move it from side to side.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!



What's road tax?

You're not Mike Vandeman are you?


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

"at first we thought he was a young lad, he looked so frail. By the time I'd been stuck behind him for a mile or so, I could tell it was actually a MAMIL, though he looked about 14. Stick-thin legs and full lycra white kit. A very small man who appeared to be suffering from small man syndrome, and was determined to hog the road."

why did the OP/driver think this was relevant within his post??? seems like an overly aggressive driver syndrome and get off my road type of guy


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said: ↑
Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!

did you really just post that as an argument on a cycling forum????


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## Profpointy (29 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Illaveago said: ↑
> Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!
> 
> did you really just post that as an argument on a cycling forum????



i suspect you've missed the irony


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

there's no irony in that quote - otherwise he wouldn't have posted the NO! at the end of his statement


Profpointy said:


> i suspect you've missed the irony


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## Nigel-YZ1 (29 Jul 2015)

Profpointy said:


> i suspect you've missed the irony



I did.


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## Donger (29 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> "at first we thought he was a young lad, he looked so frail. By the time I'd been stuck behind him for a mile or so, I could tell it was actually a MAMIL, though he looked about 14. Stick-thin legs and full lycra white kit. A very small man who appeared to be suffering from small man syndrome, and was determined to hog the road."
> 
> why did the OP/driver think this was relevant within his post??? seems like an overly aggressive driver syndrome and get off my road type of guy


 So I'm not on your Christmas card list then? Any time you come down to Gloucestershire, you are welcome to come for a ride with me anyway, along with any other Cyclechatters who currently have me down as a vile thug. I don't bear grudges. (By the way, without stopping to ask his name, how else could I convey who I was talking about, other than by describing him to a tee? I suppose I could also have mentioned his sticky-out ears, but that seemed like overkill at the time).


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## glenn forger (29 Jul 2015)

Why are you putting so much effort into describing him? We only have your word that any of this is true and you and your wife have already displayed an irrational prejudice.


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.
> Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?


Is there someone we can talk to to make this kind of self hatred a Cycle Chat Godwins Law? Only it crops up with surprising regularity in threads, is always being posted with the same 'we should all be flagellating ourselves' agenda and only serves the purpose to show that further involvement in the thread should be for comedic purposes only.


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## gavintc (29 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> So I'm not on your Christmas card list then? Any time you come down to Gloucestershire, you are welcome to come for a ride with me anyway, along with any other Cyclechatters who currently have me down as a vile thug. I don't bear grudges. (By the way, without stopping to ask his name, how else could I convey who I was talking about, other than by describing him to a tee? I suppose I could also have mentioned his sticky-out ears, but that seemed like overkill at the time).


Cracking troll post which has gone for 15 pages. Can't believe so many have bitten. Don't feed the trolls.


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## benb (29 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> I could actually have squeezed past dangerously on 5 or 6 occasions, but that's not me.


Wow, what a hero.



Donger said:


> I didn't actually overtake the crap cyclist or put him in any danger


Apart from tailgating him you mean? 12 feet is way too close to follow.

He held you up for significantly less than 10 minutes. I suggest you stop driving until you can lose the impatient MGIF attitude.


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## benb (29 Jul 2015)

Illaveago said:


> Do you pay road tax,insurance, MOT, have at least 1.6 mm of tread on your tyres. No!





Illaveago said:


> When cyclists totally ignore red traffic lights , cycle more than 2 abreast when a vehicle approaches, ride the wrong way up one way streets, cut in and out of traffic weaving dangerously. How would you expect motorists to feel.
> Oh by the the way what is the stopping distance of a cycle travelling at 20 mph?



Ah, a self-hating cyclist. I've heard of these.


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## tyred (29 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> So I'm not on your Christmas card list then? Any time you come down to Gloucestershire, you are welcome to come for a ride with me anyway, along with any other Cyclechatters who currently have me down as a vile thug. I don't bear grudges. (By the way, without stopping to ask his name, how else could I convey who I was talking about, other than by describing him to a tee? I suppose I could also have mentioned his sticky-out ears, but that seemed like overkill at the time).



Was he riding a pink Raleigh Caprice with a basket and tassels on the handlebards?


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> So I'm not on your Christmas card list then? Any time you come down to Gloucestershire, you are welcome to come for a ride with me anyway, along with any other Cyclechatters who currently have me down as a vile thug. I don't bear grudges. (By the way, without stopping to ask his name, how else could I convey who I was talking about, other than by describing him to a tee? I suppose I could also have mentioned his sticky-out ears, but that seemed like overkill at the time).


Nice of you to single me out amongst all the other responses


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## glenn forger (29 Jul 2015)

Will we get another thread when someone delays you slightly down the pub?


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2015)

tyred said:


> Was he riding a pink Raleigh Caprice with a basket and tassels on the handlebards?



Wait, that jogs my memory, did he indicate turning with a cocked arm and his other hand on his hip? At any point going down hill did he remove his feet from the pedals and yell "I'm Free" at the top of his voice?

I mean, if the answer is yes to those two then I'm starting to think I might know the guy... Are we merely hurling abuse at him once we've tracked him down, or do you want to get the baseball bats out?

@Donger Love You :-)


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## Donger (29 Jul 2015)

jowwy said:


> Nice of you to single me out amongst all the other responses


No, everyone is always welcome.

p.s. Over and out. Goodbye.


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## jowwy (29 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> No, everyone is always welcome.
> 
> p.s. Over and out. Goodbye.


Count me out......im not the aggressive angry type


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## Foghat (29 Jul 2015)

theclaud said:


> I often meet oncoming cars who appear to expect me to swerve into gravel rather than than being prepared to stop and let me go by. The best way to deal with this is to play chicken and eyeball them until they stop, but you need to be prepared to bail if this doesn't work.



'Evening, tudles! That's always been my technique too.

My commute has about 8 miles of singletrack road where many drivers seem intent on this sort of attempted intimidation, but when I decided to commute with very bright lights in daylight, even bright sunshine, the number of incidences drastically reduced. They seem to send a strong 'do NOT attempt to intimidate me off this road' message.....and the number of cars now stopping way in the distance when they first see the light is not bad at all.


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## theclaud (29 Jul 2015)

Foghat said:


> 'Evening, tudles! That's always been my technique too.
> 
> My commute has about 8 miles of singletrack road where many drivers seem intent on this sort of attempted intimidation, but when I decided to commute with very bright lights in daylight, even bright sunshine, the number of incidences drastically reduced. They seem to send a strong 'do NOT attempt to intimidate me off this road' message.....and the number of cars now stopping way in the distance when they first see the light is not bad at all.



Foggers! How nice to see you. Can't endorse the light policy - I have been cultivating a diametrically opposed one - but each to their own.


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## gavgav (29 Jul 2015)

All I've learnt from this thread is a few more names to add to my ignore list and that the human race needs to bloody well chill out a bit, both on a bike and in a car.

Life's too short people.


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## pauldavid (30 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> I was at one point! But it is actually a fascinating exercise in people watching..... Seeing some people's imaginative narratives of something I alone actually witnessed now taking on a much more exciting life all of their own. It now seems I was driving some sort of Humvee at about 90mph while breathing down the neck of some poor exemplary cyclist.... in one of those single track lanes with man traps in every gateway and constantly packed with lines of "30 or 40" other similar speed freaks. I am a little worried that I might soon start being quoted in the "Death Penalty" thread, but am otherwise just sitting back and enjoying the show. I think some people might simply have given up on trying to persuade @Marmion of the benefits of Westminster rule in Scotland and are looking for another intellectual skirmish somewhere other than in the Society, Culture and Politics thread.




Just so we're clear, were you on your way to hunt a lion at the time?


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## snorri (30 Jul 2015)

gavgav said:


> All I've learnt from this thread is a few more names to add to my ignore list and that the human race needs to bloody well chill out a bit, both on a bike and in a car.
> 
> Life's too short people.


The thread is 90% legpull, not meant to be taken seriously, lighten up.

Thinks..... maybe I shouldn't have bothered posting if I'm already on your Ignore list


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## gavgav (30 Jul 2015)

snorri said:


> The thread is 90% legpull, not meant to be taken seriously, lighten up.
> 
> Thinks..... maybe I shouldn't have bothered posting if I'm already on your Ignore list


There is a lot less than 90% of this thats leg pulling.


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## Donger (31 Jul 2015)

pauldavid said:


> Just so we're clear, were you on your way to hunt a lion at the time?


 Nobody saw me do it ... you can't prove a thing.


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## jowwy (31 Jul 2015)

Donger said:


> Nobody saw me do it ... you can't prove a thing.


The same as nobody as portrayed the other side of your imaginative story about the country lane hogging cyclist


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## MrGrumpy (31 Jul 2015)

Oh FfS up like a salmon lol


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