# Thefts of GPSs in cafes.



## Globalti (27 Dec 2018)

Has anybody heard any reports of this happening? A cycling buddy visited a popular cycling cafe near Preston a couple of days ago. Removed his Garmin, put it in his helmet along with gloves and other stuff, which he left on a table while he went to the counter to order and pay. When the time came to leave - no Garmin. The cafe was crowded with cyclists and non-cyclists so anybody could have casually picked it out of his helmet in passing. Unfortunately for the thief it's got a cracked screen and a mount glued on the back.

Not far up the A6 from there is Scorton whose two cafes used to have a terrible reputation for bike thefts.


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## si_c (27 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> Has anybody heard any reports of this happening? A cycling buddy visited a popular cycling cafe near Preston a couple of days ago. Removed his Garmin, put it in his helmet along with gloves and other stuff, which he left on a table while he went to the counter to order and pay. When the time came to leave - no Garmin. The cafe was crowded with cyclists and non-cyclists so anybody could have casually picked it out of his helmet in passing. Unfortunately for the thief it's got a cracked screen and a mount glued on the back.
> 
> Not far up the A6 from there is Scorton whose two cafes used to have a terrible reputation for bike thefts.



They're too small and easy to move unfortunately. I always put mine in my pocket when I walk away from the bike, better safe than sorry.


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## fossyant (27 Dec 2018)

Always keep mine with me.


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## Drago (27 Dec 2018)

If it's worth more than a few quid, in public, and unattended for a split second someone will nick it. His wallet or wristwatch would have disappeared just as swiftly.


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## Ilovehills (27 Dec 2018)

I always take mine in with me, and my lights. Never worth the risk


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Dec 2018)

Great thing about dynamo lights. No one carries around a spanner to take them off the bike. GPS I put in jersey pocket whilst in a cafe.


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## Sniper68 (27 Dec 2018)

Always slip mine in my Jersey pocket...even some cyclists are dishonest
I haven't heard of it being a problem around these parts though.


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## vickster (27 Dec 2018)

Always surprised by how many people leave their GPS units on their bikes when parked in a local(ish) high end bike shop. The area is covered by CCTV which would protect a bike but not a small GPS

Mine goes in pocket or helmet which is watched. Lights come off when bike parked up. If they’re on the bike, they’d be needed on the onwards journey


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## Phaeton (27 Dec 2018)

If he logs onto his Garmin account & finds the serial number I believe Garmin can then block them making it useless, it's even too small to be a door stop


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## jefmcg (27 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> Has anybody heard any reports of this happening?


Theft of small, valuable items left unattended in busy cafes? Yes.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Dec 2018)

jefmcg said:


> Theft of small, valuable items left unattended in busy cafes? Yes.


Mobile phones are the most common, not surprising when you see how careless people are even with expensive iphones.


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## lazybloke (27 Dec 2018)

I did an overnight charity ride in 2014 - my first cycling 'event' since the 90s. Was amazed by how much tech was left unattended on bikes. And with only 1000 riders spread over a nearly 70 mile course, plenty of opportunity for it to go missing.

Took mine with me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Dec 2018)

Drago said:


> If it's worth more than a few quid, in public, and unattended for a split second someone will nick it. His wallet or wristwatch would have disappeared just as swiftly.



There was an incident in my local watering hole not long ago where someone had a pair of prescription spectacles and a pint of beer stolen from their table whilst they were using the toilet. Nothing surprises me any more. Some scrotes will nick anything. In a cycling café, any random scumbag could walk in dressed as a cyclist, in exactly the same way people will wander on to a building site wearing a hi-vis jacket and hard hat and walk off with any power tools that have been left unattended. If you look like you belong in a certain setting, you become invisible and no-one pays a blind bit of attention to anyone wearing the right kind of attire.


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## R_nger (27 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> If he logs onto his Garmin account & finds the serial number I believe Garmin can then block them making it useless, it's even too small to be a door stop


That's clever - how do they do that ?


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## Sniper68 (27 Dec 2018)

R_nger said:


> That's clever - how do they do that ?


By GPS?Quite easy for them to block the unit.


SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you look like you belong in a certain setting, you become invisible and no-one pays a blind bit of attention to anyone wearing the right kind of attire.


There was a spate of MTB thefts at Coed-Y-Brenin a few years ago.Riders were leaving their expensive MTBs on the hanger provided outside the cafe.It would hold 20-30 bikes.Thieves were turning up in full MTBing gear,casually walking up to the rack and taking their pick.


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## midlife (27 Dec 2018)

I thought all Garmin could do was block updates?


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## NorthernDave (27 Dec 2018)

lazybloke said:


> I did an overnight charity ride in 2014 - my first cycling 'event' since the 90s. Was amazed by how much tech was left unattended on bikes. And with only 1000 riders spread over a nearly 70 mile course, plenty of opportunity for it to go missing.
> 
> Took mine with me.



It never ceases to amaze me at sportives how many riders leave their bikes, let alone anything else, unattended and out of sight while having a feed.

I did one in August and there were bikes propped up against the fence 20-30 yards away from the food stand and completely out of sight of the riders. I only use a basic cafe lock, but I'm fairly sure that it would be enough to mean my bike was still there when looking at all the exotica left lying about.

Regarding the Garmin, if Livetrack was enabled, would it show where it had gone to, or when it was next used? Although I suppose a switched on thief would know to turn it off.


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## mustang1 (27 Dec 2018)

Funnily enough I was at a coffee shop when I first read this thread and my GPS was with me. Now I'm at another shop and and the GPS is left on the bike but the bike is a mere 3 metres away from me.


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## Globalti (27 Dec 2018)

I've left my bike outside Biketreks in Ambleside and wandered inside, stupid of me because anybody strolling past could just casually wheel it away. Must do better next time and use at least the café lock.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Dec 2018)

Having spent a couple of decades in Africa, I never leave anything for someone else’s temptation. If I do, I have only myself to blame.

Last summer, there was a chap who was hungry/dehydrated/tired at the control/café long into an Audax, who had his charging battery and cable ‘stolen’ and was in a right panic. He was asking everyone and I’m sure I know that he suspected it was someone on the event.

Then someone pointed out that it was hanging round his neck


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Having spent a couple of decades in Africa, I never leave anything for someone else’s temptation. If I do, I have only myself to blame.
> 
> Last summer, there was a chap who was hungry/dehydrated/tired at the control/café long into an Audax, who had his charging battery and cable ‘stolen’ and was in a right panic. He was asking everyone and I’m sure I know that he suspected it was someone on the event.
> 
> Then someone pointed out that it was hanging round his neck



Had he plugged in his glasses by mistake?


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> I've left my bike outside Biketreks in Ambleside and wandered inside, stupid of me because anybody strolling past could just casually wheel it away..



People who live in quiet low crime areas or places where they know their neighbours tend to be very complacent. The locals might be honest but they forget that any strangers passing by might not be. I recently watched a nice bike being propped against a wall and the owner wandered off across the road and round the corner to visit a village shop. There was no building with windows in it overlooking the bike, no CCTV and no other people out on the street. I was yards away sitting in a Transit van and although it was locked with a weedy cable lock through the frame and front wheel I still could have just picked up the whole bike and slung it in the back and driven off in seconds if I was that way inclined, with no witnesses. Unless a bike is in full sight at all times, just locking a wheel will not stop a thief with a vehicle making off with it in the blink of an eye.


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## Racing roadkill (27 Dec 2018)

If it isn’t nailed down, some tosser will nick it.


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## HLaB (27 Dec 2018)

I've never experienced it but I wouldn't be surprised. We once had a surveyor who was late for work because somebody smashed up her car. They did so for a tiny stone glass etching stone


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## Richard Fairhurst (27 Dec 2018)

Sniper68 said:


> By GPS?Quite easy for them to block the unit.



They can't block a GPS receiver - it doesn't have any internet connectivity and I don't think the US military are going to agree to send special signals to brick a consumer-grade product! Garmin can potentially stop it from talking to some of their added-value fripperies like Garmin Connect (presumably their apps can read the serial number via USB/Bluetooth), but no more than that. The app could _maybe_ attempt to brick the unit itself in such circumstances, but that would be a pretty risky thing for Garmin to do...


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## nickyboy (27 Dec 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> If it isn’t nailed down, some tosser will nick it.



That's true, but a bit of common sense never goes amiss. A Garmin is £250 or so. Absolutely nobody would leave £250 in cash in their helmet in a café unattended so why would anyone leave a device of similar value? FWIW, in a café I pause my Garmin and put it in by jersey pocket. It's not victim blaming, it's wondering why people don't apply common sense


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## Sniper68 (28 Dec 2018)

Richard Fairhurst said:


> They can't block a GPS receiver - it doesn't have any internet connectivity and I don't think the US military are going to agree to send special signals to brick a consumer-grade product! Garmin can potentially stop it from talking to some of their added-value fripperies like Garmin Connect (presumably their apps can read the serial number via USB/Bluetooth), but no more than that. The app could _maybe_ attempt to brick the unit itself in such circumstances, but that would be a pretty risky thing for Garmin to do...


Mmm strange.
A few years ago now I bought a Garmin edge 800 off ebay and it was locked out.The seller told me that he had restored factory settings but didn't have the unlock code.It took a while of toing and froing with Garmin and the seller before Garmin were happy it wasn't stolen and provided a code to unlock it.Maybe I'm mistaking this for Garmin being able to lock devices on request?
That said if a Bank can lock your card/credit card surely it wouldn't be too difficult to design something to lock electronic devices?
Can your mobile be locked form source?I'd be very surprised if it can't.I know they can easily be Network unlocked anywhere for a tenner but can the actual device software be locked?


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## classic33 (28 Dec 2018)

Sniper68 said:


> Mmm strange.
> A few years ago now I bought a Garmin edge 800 off ebay and it was locked out.The seller told me that he had restored factory settings but didn't have the unlock code.It took a while of toing and froing with Garmin and the seller before Garmin were happy it wasn't stolen and provided a code to unlock it.Maybe I'm mistaking this for Garmin being able to lock devices on request?
> That said if a Bank can lock your card/credit card surely it wouldn't be too difficult to design something to lock electronic devices?
> Can your mobile be locked form source?I'd be very surprised if it can't.I know they can easily be Network unlocked anywhere for a tenner but can the actual device software be locked?


Your bank card isn't blocked, it's locked out of the system.


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2018)

Sniper68 said:


> A few years ago now I bought a Garmin edge 800 off ebay and it was locked out.The seller told me that he had restored factory settings but didn't have the unlock code.It took a while of toing and froing with Garmin and the seller before Garmin were happy it wasn't stolen and provided a code to unlock it.Maybe I'm mistaking this for Garmin being able to lock devices on request?


I think I may have this wrong, but as others have said, Garmin can lock it out of their system so you can't link it to your own Garmin account, so the device will still work but you won't be able to upload it to Garmin & it won't update, whether you can upload to Strava/RidewithGPS etc. I don't know but would think so.


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## lazybloke (28 Dec 2018)

classic33 said:


> Your bank card isn't blocked, it's locked out of the system.


Yes, every card transaction is electronically authorised. So it's easy to lock a card out.

Garmins can be used entirely offline (as in not connected to Garmon or the Internet) so the possibility of blocking/locking/disabling can be avoided.

Got mine new from Amazon in case you're wondering


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## burntoutbanger (28 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> I think I may have this wrong, but as others have said, Garmin can lock it out of their system so you can't link it to your own Garmin account, so the device will still work but *you won't be able to upload it to Garmin & it won't update*, whether you can upload to Strava/RidewithGPS etc. I don't know but would think so.



Depending on your experience of Garmin updates this may not be a bad thing.


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2018)

burntoutbanger said:


> Depending on your experience of Garmin updates this may not be a bad thing.


I have never had an issue with any of our Garmin products


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## Adam4868 (28 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> Has anybody heard any reports of this happening? A cycling buddy visited a popular cycling cafe near Preston a couple of days ago. Removed his Garmin, put it in his helmet along with gloves and other stuff, which he left on a table while he went to the counter to order and pay. When the time came to leave - no Garmin. The cafe was crowded with cyclists and non-cyclists so anybody could have casually picked it out of his helmet in passing. Unfortunately for the thief it's got a cracked screen and a mount glued on the back.
> 
> Not far up the A6 from there is Scorton whose two cafes used to have a terrible reputation for bike thefts.


Was up there yesterday,Barn and applestore seem to have gone upmarket ? Pricey enough for "cycling cafes"
I never leave anything on bike which is removable.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2018)

Adam4868 said:


> Was up there yesterday,Barn and applestore seem to have gone upmarket ? Pricey enough for "cycling cafes"
> I never leave anything on bike which is removable.



Don't you find taking wheels into a cafe a right royal pain?


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## byegad (28 Dec 2018)

I used to work for a well known mobile phone company. The number of idiots that would leave their phones on bars and then act all surprised when they weren't there on their return! The insurance wouldn't pay out on them.


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2018)

byegad said:


> I used to work for a well known mobile phone company. The number of idiots that would leave their phones on bars and then act all surprised when they weren't there on their return! The insurance wouldn't pay out on them.


Once in a pub with my wife, there were a couple of young ladies on the next table, I saw a guy come over to talk to them he deliberately leaned over & put one of his hands on top of one of their phones that were just laying on the table, they chatted for a couple of minutes & as he made to leave I saw him try to take the phone with him, but one of the ladies was clearly aware & challenged him, he retorted with a "Oops sorry thought that was mine", then proceeded to look for his own phone" Sneaky Barstool


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## Globalti (28 Dec 2018)

I would cheerfully flog thieves.


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## burntoutbanger (28 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> I have never had an issue with any of our Garmin products



Conversely I've had issues with two.


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## byegad (28 Dec 2018)

Our Garmin car satnav worked pretty well. Updating it was a nightmare. Every single time you did it the Garmin software on the computer had to be updated, taking anything up to an hour, and the map update was a several hour job. Their software update on the device wasn't too bad, but still not good.


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## jefmcg (28 Dec 2018)

burntoutbanger said:


> Depending on your experience of Garmin updates this may not be a bad thing.


Yes.

And if Garmin has inserted self-destruct code in their phones, you know that it would happen randomly to some innocent owners.



Phaeton said:


> I have never had an issue with any of our Garmin products


Well, let's say that 2% of Garmins have a fatal flaw, there would be thousands of unhappy customers, but most would say "I've never had an issue". It doesn't really add any info unless someone was saying "Garmin have never produce a working unit", which no one is saying.


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## classic33 (28 Dec 2018)

So they produce & sell non-working units?


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2018)

jefmcg said:


> Well, let's say that 2% of Garmins have a fatal


Why would 'we' say that? I don't understand the significance?


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## burntoutbanger (28 Dec 2018)

I think every company everywhere produces and sells some imperfect units occasionally, my initial comment was really an aside.

Not wishing to derail the thread, I am also one that would remove any expensive items from the bike (wheels exempt). Lights/GPS certainly.


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## NorthernDave (28 Dec 2018)

Garmin car sat nav (Nuvi something) and bike computer (Edge 810) both do their job fine but updates using Garmin's software always feels like much more of a chore than they need to be.
Garmin Virb bike camera - a nightmare from start to finish to set up and to use, rarely worked as intended and would frequently turn off midride and refuse to turn back on unless connected to a PC. That got sent back for a refund.


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## vickster (28 Dec 2018)

burntoutbanger said:


> I think every company everywhere produces and sells some imperfect units occasionally, my initial comment was really an aside.
> 
> Not wishing to derail the thread, I am also one that would remove any expensive items from the bike (wheels exempt). Lights/GPS certainly.


And presumably also not leave in helmet unattended on a cafe table as the OP


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## Racing roadkill (28 Dec 2018)

I got mine cheap off a bloke stood outside a cafe. It works fine.


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2018)

I was surprised at the number of unattended and unlocked bikes at the Barnard Castle control of London Edinburgh London.

Not just for a few minutes, a lot of riders were in the control for several hours if they were eating and kipping.

Of the hundreds of bikes parked outside at busy times, most were unlocked.

Things were fairly casual in the control as well, any number of gadgets left on charge unattended.


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## Racing roadkill (28 Dec 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I was surprised at the number of unattended and unlocked bikes at the Barnard Castle control of London Edinburgh London.
> 
> Not just for a few minutes, a lot of riders were in the control for several hours if they were eating and kipping.
> 
> ...


Yeahbut it’s an Audax. Nothing bad will happen to anyone with a wool jersey, a bobble hat, and a Brooks saddle. Them’s the rules.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I was surprised at the number of unattended and unlocked bikes at the Barnard Castle control of London Edinburgh London.
> 
> Not just for a few minutes, a lot of riders were in the control for several hours if they were eating and kipping.
> 
> ...



I carried a cafe lock in 2013, but never used it at the controls. It will be the same at PBP.


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## Blue Hills (29 Dec 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Yeahbut it’s an Audax. Nothing bad will happen to anyone with a wool jersey, a bobble hat, and a Brooks saddle. Them’s the rules.


I do have the idea that in some of that persuasion locking stuff up is seen as "not done". I know of someone who had a nice bike nicked from outside an Audax. Rich pickings for sure for any vaguely clever thief willing to do a few minutes online research.


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## Sniper68 (29 Dec 2018)

classic33 said:


> So they produce & sell non-working units?


Yes and no,sort of.
They tend to release units before they are fully ready then release loads of update/patches.The Garmin Edge 820 was a prime example.I had four of them in under 6 months.I sold the 4th without even turning it on.
Garmins user Forum highlights this.There's page after page of fixes and patches.When they're sorted they can be brilliant units but I've given up on them.
There will be 1000s who won't have a problem but there's also many who will.I've had a few Edge units that were fine (200/520/800) but the 820 was an absolute dog IMO.My son uses my 5 year old Edge 200 which has been faultless but it is basic.


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## Alien8 (29 Dec 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I was surprised at the number of unattended and unlocked bikes at the Barnard Castle control of London Edinburgh London.
> 
> Not just for a few minutes, a lot of riders were in the control for several hours if they were eating and kipping.
> 
> ...



I took a Pitbull Mini and cable with me and used it at every control bar one (where I just popped in and out).

But that was certainly at the extreme end and although I saw the odd cafe lock deployed, as you say, most bikes were left unlocked for potentially hours.

I guess it was a combination of riders believing their bikes were being looked after by the volunteers and the event itself addling the mind.

When (if) I do an event like that again, I think I would take an ordinary padlock with a shackle long enough to go across the stays.

But I couldn't leave my bike unlocked.


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## Globalti (29 Dec 2018)

The best organisation I ever saw is the Cape Argus race in Cape Town. With 32,000 riders it has to be good so there's a secure bike park at the finish where you get a numbered ticket for your bike. The organisation involved in trucking thousands of bikes in removal vans from Johannesburg then back is something else.


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## Levo-Lon (29 Dec 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There was an incident in my local watering hole not long ago where someone had a pair of prescription spectacles and a pint of beer stolen from their table whilst they were using the toilet. Nothing surprises me any more. Some scrotes will nick anything. In a cycling café, any random scumbag could walk in dressed as a cyclist, in exactly the same way people will wander on to a building site wearing a hi-vis jacket and hard hat and walk off with any power tools that have been left unattended. If you look like you belong in a certain setting, you become invisible and no-one pays a blind bit of attention to anyone wearing the right kind of attire.




That's how bike thieving shyte operate at trail centres and the likes.
Who takes notice of a mountain biker with a mountain bike.

People are so trusting, or simply oblivious to what's going on around them.


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## Phaeton (29 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> People are so trusting, or simply oblivious to what's going on around them.


Maybe they are just nice people & expect others to be the same


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Dec 2018)

I’ve alluded to my African blueprint before with regard to theft. 

Stopping at a CoOp in Chepstow on an Audax I was doing, there was no street furniture to lock my bike to. Seeing another cyclist pull up and leave his bike against a wall unlocked, I assumed he didn’t have a lock. I offered to lock my bike to his to decrease the chances of a theft. He was too tired to say, ‘No it’s ok. We don’t lock bikes on Audax events.’ And let me. I was too tired to notice his bemused expression. I got the hint many days later digesting the situation.

I’m an anomaly for sure. I used to work in a culinary/medicinal garden. I didn’t realise it, but I really used to offend the landowner because I used to lock my vehicle up while I worked. I had to explain my old African habits. Still shook his head.


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## Globalti (29 Dec 2018)

Regrettably my own African experience agrees with yours. If something isn't locked, bolted or welded in place it will disappear. We don't allow any of our Lagos staff to take vehicles home and all company vehicles are GPS alarmed with a battery removal alarm as well. The problems happen when a driver gets pressured into lending the vehicle to a friend or relative and it comes back the next day with different tyres, battery, starter motor, whatever. Theft starts with politicians and goes right through life, with everything and everybody fair game. When buying anything like a car, a house or land you have to take extreme care to be sure the asset actually belongs to the seller.


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## jefmcg (29 Dec 2018)

How did we get here? From a theft in Lancashire, to casting the whole of Africa as a den of thieves, or to quote a notable politician, a shoothole?

Mind you, it's understandable if Africans might be a little light fingered, considering Europe has for centuries systematically stripped that continent of everything of value, including generations of fit young people. And though we may have slowed a bit, the Chinese are picking up our slack, albeit they do not need more people, so that's something.

Much of the wealth of Europe is the plunder of Africa, but they can't be trusted not to steal a starter motor. I guess that kind of balances things out.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

I often do not lock up the recumbent at village shops on audaxes on the basis that very few will successfully manage to ride away on it. My road bike I tend to use the cafe lock unless a group of us is there and we have a rita for bike watching.


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## Adam4868 (29 Dec 2018)

I don't stop,my body is a temple...I must resist cake...


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

classic33 said:


> So they produce & sell non-working units?



Their quality control is poor. So for example if 2% of their units have defects, the other 98% may have a trouble free experience. Their firmware is often released with limited testing and the built in diagnostics non existent. So it takes several firmware releases before something works as it should and they often break fixed stuff in subsequent releases.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

User13710 said:


> Poor old Rita, I hope you take her out a cup of tea.



Ooops


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## nickyboy (29 Dec 2018)

User13710 said:


> Poor old Rita, I hope you take her out a cup of tea.


As I recall, Rita was asked whether she would be "free to take some tea with me"

So she is probably ok


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## jefmcg (29 Dec 2018)

nickyboy said:


> As I recall, Rita was asked whether she would be "free to take some tea with me"
> 
> So she is probably ok


OMG, you have won cyclechat! Please take your tiara and sash and I will meet you at the engraving table.


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## Levo-Lon (29 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Maybe they are just nice people & expect others to be the same



And that's why they get robbed.


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## subaqua (29 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Great thing about dynamo lights. No one carries around a spanner to take them off the bike. GPS I put in jersey pocket whilst in a cafe.



What , like nobody carries Allen Keys to remove brake lever and calliper for hydraulic disc brakes ? 

Sorry , you are living in a fantasy there. 

£85 feckin quid with the ISO mount ...


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

subaqua said:


> What , like nobody carries Allen Keys to remove brake lever and calliper for hydraulic disc brakes ?
> 
> Sorry , you are living in a fantasy there.
> 
> £85 feckin quid with the ISO mount ...



Want on earth has that do with bolted on dynamo lights? Apart from nothing!


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## Levo-Lon (29 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Want on earth has that do with bolted on dynamo lights? Apart from nothing!



Well you said " no one carries around a spanner "


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## subaqua (29 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> Well you said " no one carries around a spanner "



You have to forgive some people for failing comprehension ... I do


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> Well you said " no one carries around a spanner "



Indeed and was a spanner mentioned in their reply!


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## subaqua (29 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Indeed and was a spanner mentioned in their reply!



Allen key is a colloquial term for a hex wrench . Spanner’s are wrenches . Now stop being one and realise people do have the tools with them to steal anything. 

You got called out and tried to be smart . I dunno what your problem is , but get it sorted .


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Indeed and was a spanner mentioned in their reply!


Are the bolts 10/11mm, same size as many brake bolts, on bolt-on dynamo lights?


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## Phaeton (30 Dec 2018)

meta lon said:


> And that's why they get robbed.


Still doesn't make right


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## subaqua (30 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Still doesn't make right




Not sure anybody said it is right . Sadly people often don’t believe there are bad people out there who would steal the breath out of their own Granny if they could. 

The police are woefully underresourced and you will get a crime number as a minimum and very little else. 

Welcome to Great Britain


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## rogerzilla (30 Dec 2018)

B&M have started using Torx bolts for their front lights, maybe for this reason. I doubt Germany has as many thieving scrotes as the UK, either.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2018)

subaqua said:


> Allen key is a colloquial term for a hex wrench . Spanner’s are wrenches . Now stop being one and realise people do have the tools with them to steal anything.
> 
> You got called out and tried to be smart . I dunno what your problem is , but get it sorted .



The simple fact is thieves are not walking around with spanners to steal dynamos. Allen keys and spanners are not one and the same. Is your suggestion that everything bolted to a bike should be disassembled and taken into a cafe? Not sure what your point is but try and be civill like the rest of us.


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## Blue Hills (30 Dec 2018)

rogerzilla said:


> I doubt Germany has as many thieving scrotes as the UK, either.



Not sure what this impression is based on. Statistics?

on the core topic I take everything off a parked in town bike that is hand removeable apart from water bottles I don't need. I do sometimes leave a cheap chinese rear light on but it's a bit of a fag to remove from a cateye mount and only cost around £1.90. I did for a while have the odd idea that some mischievous sole might pee in my water bottles - not sure where that idea came from - now over it  - bottles are aged decathlon things. All just common sense really I think.


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## subaqua (30 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> The simple fact is thieves are not walking around with spanners to steal dynamos. Allen keys and spanners are not one and the same. Is your suggestion that everything bolted to a bike should be disassembled and taken into a cafe? Not sure what your point is but try and be civill like the rest of us.



You really should try following your own advice. Bike multitool .

No not suggesting disassembling , but believe me you can take a massive amount off s bike very quickly with a multitool


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## Blue Hills (30 Dec 2018)

subaqua said:


> but believe me you can take a massive amount off s bike very quickly with a multitool



Hard to argue with that for of course that's the main reason for the multitool, and the modern standardisation of fastenings on bikes.


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## subaqua (30 Dec 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Hard to argue with that for of course that's the main reason for the multitool, and the modern standardisation of fastenings on bikes.



One guy in work who was rather vocal about “bloody cyclists” found that when he started to ride in , in the height of summer , his BSO from Argos was stripped of components with a multitool in slightly less than 15 minutes and the components placed in strategic places. 

On the plus side when he did apologise and it got put back together he said it rode so much better. 

He also discovered that cheap wire locks with 3 digit codes jam very easily but also cut open with a cheap leatherman copy very easily. 


Anyway Allen keys - hex headed wrench


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## Phaeton (30 Dec 2018)

subaqua said:


> Not sure anybody said it is right . Sadly people often don’t believe there are bad people out there who would steal the breath out of their own Granny if they could.
> Welcome to Great Britain


Still don't see you're point, you appear to be going out of your way to be argumentative in this whole thread with multiple people, so I'm unsure as to what purpose, maybe you've strayed from your normal haunt where argumentative for argumentative sake is expected. 
As to Welcome to GB I suspect from your juvenile antics, (including stripping a work colleagues bike in pieces to prove a point) that I've been here a whole lot longer than you have.


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## subaqua (30 Dec 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Still don't see you're point, you appear to be going out of your way to be argumentative in this whole thread with multiple people, so I'm unsure as to what purpose, maybe you've strayed from your normal haunt where argumentative for argumentative sake is expected.
> As to Welcome to GB I suspect from your juvenile antics, (including stripping a work colleagues bike in pieces to prove a point) that I've been here a whole lot longer than you have.




Aww jumping to conclusions again . Where did I say I stripped it down ... 

And it is ironic you complaining about argumentative. 

In short 

There are bad people out there . Lots of people think there are not and find out hard way.


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## jefmcg (30 Dec 2018)

rogerzilla said:


> B&M have started using Torx bolts for their front lights, maybe for this reason. I doubt Germany has as many thieving scrotes as the UK, either.


In what sense "started".

The light I bought in 2013 has a torx bolt. Nothing new here.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2018)

subaqua said:


> You really should try following your own advice. Bike multitool .
> 
> No not suggesting disassembling , but believe me you can take a massive amount off s bike very quickly with a multitool



But where are all these bike thieves stealing dynamo lights? I have yet to see anyone saying this has happened to them. Perhaps you could point to the threads where people are mentioning this.


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## classic33 (30 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> But where are all these bike thieves stealing dynamo lights? I have yet to see anyone saying this has happened to them. Perhaps you could point to the threads where people are mentioning this.


I've never had a battery light pinched when left in place. There's not many complaining about those type of lights being pinched either.


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## Adam4868 (30 Dec 2018)

If a light was the worse I got nicked I'd think ah feck it !


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## OldShep (30 Dec 2018)

Was the OP referring to an incident at Roots'?
If so a Garmin was mistakenly taken by another club and are trying to find the rightful owner and
I think they’ve found him.


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## rogerzilla (30 Dec 2018)

jefmcg said:


> In what sense "started".
> 
> The light I bought in 2013 has a torx bolt. Nothing new here.


My two Cyos bought in 2010-ish have a normal hex bolt and nyloc nut. The IQ-X I bought last year has the Torx bolt. Maybe it's only the more expensive ones?


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## Ajay (30 Dec 2018)

OldShep said:


> Was the OP referring to an incident at Roots'?
> If so a Garmin was mistakenly taken by another club and are trying to find the rightful owner and
> I think they’ve found him.



And one was left behind/handed in there on Boxing Day, and the owner found. Good to know we’re not all bike thieves in this part of the world


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## NorthernDave (30 Dec 2018)

This is a handy way to put your details in your Garmin in case you misplace it:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/display-number-garmin.html


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## MichaelW2 (2 Jan 2019)

I had a manky old waterbottle containing an old lead-acid battery stolen from my bike.
For toe-rags, the question, "what is it worf", or even "what is it" comes a distant second to "can I posses the precious".


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