# FNRttK 2014 - Saturday May 3rd



## swarm_catcher (23 Feb 2014)

Saturday (not Friday) 3rd May is the night for the 2nd edition of the Flemish Night Ride to the Kust. Having it on the Saturday night allows UK'ers to get there without taking a day off, and allows us to get back in good time for work on Tuesday since we have a May Bank Holiday Monday (although that does not apply to those who lead a mmmartin lifestyle).

What do we have?

Scenic route Brussel to Gent (thank you BalkanExpress)
Middle of the night snacks offered by family Vandevelde (three Vandeveldes, three families, three generations - we might get spoilt!). Location: 8km east of Gent
Canal side ride through Brugge to Oostende
And as a finale we'll go the 'De Vismijn' side of Oostende, industrial non-touristy. Could go either way.
We can eat and drink (I can't call it breakfast) 'Bij Sjaaki En Nicky' at the fish market kanteen (Vismijn Kantine). Opens at 9AM.
Unless! We all vote for taking the free ferry (Veerdienst Oostende) across to town and go back to last year's Caruso patisserie. Opens at 7AM.
The detail?

Meet at (or outside of) La Chaloupe D'Or (there is charge for using the facilities, bring some euro change - or ask me)
We leave at 12 midnight, on the dot
Route is more scenic than last year and therefore longer: 138km
Still as flat as a pancake, if not flatter, there is at least one bridge less 
mmmmartin is the best person to ask about getting back to UK logistics (aren't you Martin?)
Maximum 15 people. It's the law
GPX files will be sent by PM nearer the time
The roll call so far:

mmmmartin
Olaf
BalkanExpress
Kris Flandrienne
Swarm_Catcher (I have to count myself in)
StuartG
StuAff
AKA Bob
Any questions?


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## StuAff (23 Feb 2014)

Interested.


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## StuartG (23 Feb 2014)

<raises hand - provided I can be excused fish for breakfast>


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## Tim Hall (23 Feb 2014)

Consults diary.

What's the thing about 15 people? Will we be an illegal gathering? Do you still have a Belgian version of The Combination Laws?


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## swarm_catcher (24 Feb 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> Consults diary.
> 
> What's the thing about 15 people? Will we be an illegal gathering? Do you still have a Belgian version of The Combination Laws?



LOL!

In fact, I've got that wrong. It should be 14 people. From 15 onwards you'd be seen as a 'group'. For groups, it's advised, but not compulsory, to use accompanying car(s) and have two 'captains'. I'm not ready to handle big groups anyway. But I want to know and I'll check with the Belgian audaxers and also my sister's cycling club how they interpret the law. The difference might be that the FNRttC style is to group up, which at least the audaxers don't do. And how much distance would be required for two sets of 14 riders, not to be group, I wonder?


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## redfalo (24 Feb 2014)

In terms of logistics: I'll take Brompton and get the Eurostar into Brussels on Saturday night (will take the on leaving London at 19:04, arriving at Brussels 22:08) I'm not 100% sure about the return trip though. My first choice is to ride to Dunkirk in Sunday and get on the ferry to Dover, which - according to Google Map's pedestrian routing - is about 65km / 41 miles along the coast from Oostend. If the weather is hostile (wind!), I understand one could also jump on the World's longest tram line. Or are there any better ideas, @mmmmartin ?


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

SC - I am planning to Brompton too. I should be able to get that on the Mega bus to Brussels arriving 16:30. Is it OK to book?


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## redfalo (24 Feb 2014)

Deutsche Bahn is still offering advance tickets for the 19:04 Eurostar connection to Brussels for 69 euros = 57 pounds. You would have to book a "London special" from London to Cologne, which includes a change in Brussels. I've booked such a ticket, and obviously will only do the first leg of the journey to Brussels. Print-at-home tickets can be booked here: 

http://ps.bahn.de/preissuche/preiss..._KIN0014_europaspezial-allgemein-buchung_LZ03


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## swarm_catcher (24 Feb 2014)

Hi Stuart - what do you mean 'is it OK?'. Do you need any confirmation from me?


StuartG said:


> SC - I am planning to Brompton too. I should be able to get that on the Mega bus to Brussels arriving 16:30. Is it OK to book?


Go for it, you're in!


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

redfalo said:


> Deutsche Bahn is still offering advance tickets for the 19:04 Eurostar connection to Brussels for 69 euros = 57 pounds. You would have to book a "London special" from London to Cologne, which includes a change in Brussels. I've booked such a ticket, and obviously will only do the first leg of the journey to Brussels. Print-at-home tickets can be booked here:
> 
> http://ps.bahn.de/preissuche/preissuche/psc_start.post?&search=0&date=+3&lang=en&country=GBR&tariffClass=2&auslmod=1&locid=&land=826&pos=start&Z=&search=1&dbkanal_007=L04_S02_D002_KIN0014_europaspezial-allgemein-buchung_LZ03


Dear Customer,
No more seats are available on this train, for which a reservation is compulsory.


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## StuAff (24 Feb 2014)

redfalo said:


> Deutsche Bahn is still offering advance tickets for the 19:04 Eurostar connection to Brussels for 69 euros = 57 pounds. You would have to book a "London special" from London to Cologne, which includes a change in Brussels. I've booked such a ticket, and obviously will only do the first leg of the journey to Brussels. Print-at-home tickets can be booked here:
> 
> http://ps.bahn.de/preissuche/preissuche/psc_start.post?&search=0&date=+3&lang=en&country=GBR&tariffClass=2&auslmod=1&locid=&land=826&pos=start&Z=&search=1&dbkanal_007=L04_S02_D002_KIN0014_europaspezial-allgemein-buchung_LZ03


Nice price, but one has to remember Eurostar's bike restrictions (and fees for carrying them). Bromptonians obviously have the advantage here. I'm thinking trains to Dover- not via London is barely slower and much cheaper for me, DFDS ferry (£20 each way including a bike, they seem to have sorted out their pricing anomalies out), bike to De Panne, trains to Brussels. Return probably the tram back to De Panne, ride over the border, back from Dunkirk.


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> Dear Customer,
> No more seats are available on this train, for which a reservation is compulsory.


@redfalo - the strange thing is this only appears after you have reserved the available train at the special fare and go into payment - it attempts to process payment and then comes up with this message which is mighty strange. I've tried it adding in a seat reservation - no difference. Am I doing something wrong?


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

Gave up on DB. Bus booked both ways outward to Brussels returning from Gent so need to catch a train ex Ostend about 10:30.

Be aware if you try and do this too - Megabus do not accept bikes. But they have accepted my Brompton in the past hidden in an IKEA Dimpy bag. YMMV.


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

StuAff said:


> train to Dover...... DFDS ferry...... bike to De Panne, train to Brussels.
> Return probably the tram back to De Panne, ride over the border, back from Dunkirk.


^^^^ This.
Although I might stop in a Formule 1 on the Sunday night in Dunkirk, not decided yet.

For any ditherers, I thought this was the best FNRttC last year, a really delightful mini-adventure in great company. And as flat as a flat thing that is feeling in a particularly flat mood. Good grub, too. 
There was a thread after last year, Might be worth a read if you can find it.


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> work on Tuesday since we have a May Bank Holiday Monday (although that does not apply to* those who lead a mmmartin lifestyle*)



You mean *those who have been thrown on the scrapheap in the prime of life by the brutal global capitalist system?
*


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

Tweeting on #FNRttK again Els?


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## BalkanExpress (24 Feb 2014)

Thanks Els,

Getting out of Brussels we will take the same route as last year with two variations.

First we will avoid the main road after the Basilique and instead run parallel.
Second, we will loop back under the motorway(s) to pick up the scenic route for the night.

Recce yesterday morning show us to be tram track free except for one bridge crossing the canal which we did last year without difficulty.

If there is a mass arrival on the Eurostar, I will try this year and come down and get you (real life commitments permitting).

As for maximum size, my understanding is that over 15 you are a "Group". "Groups" do not have to ride on cycle paths, hurrah, but do need road captains front and back marked with an Orange light. I have a couple of Lidl flashing armbands which should suffice. Groups over 50 need a support car which drives at I can not remember which end of the line, but, we are not likely to reach 50. Beyond this as Els says we need to check what other implications being a "Group" might have.

The Flemish countrside is not well stocked with 24 hour supermarkets or filling stations, so comfort breaks will most likely be ad hoc and al fresco.

If we reach Bruges/Brugge in good time and good shape we may have time for a quick tour of the main sights.


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> "Groups" do not have to ride on cycle paths, hurrah, but do need road captains front and back marked with an Orange light.


Is this not just a matter of the rider at the back having a rear light? Which we all would have, surely.
I shall be sporting the normal phenomenal quantities of rear lights and high-viz with reflective tapes and am happy to be the man at the back if that makes life easier with the police.
the success of the ride last year may mean we have more than 20 riders so we could be two groups.


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## redfalo (24 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> @redfalo - the strange thing is this only appears after you have reserved the available train at the special fare and go into payment - it attempts to process payment and then comes up with this message which is mighty strange. I've tried it adding in a seat reservation - no difference. Am I doing something wrong?



that's really weird, sorry to hear this. the website usually only shows those connections and prices that are still available.

@mmmmartin: What do you reckon, how long does it take to cycle from Oostend to Dunkirk ferry port? I guess it should be doable in 6 hours max, which mean one should be able to catch 6pm ferry to Dover (maybe even the 4pm one?). Is this realistic?


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

Last time we booked on the 4pm ferry and had about an hour or so to spare. The ride along the coast in the world's longest tram ride is surprisingly quick - although I think I was asleep for some of it. Then we had to ride from De Panne to Dunkirk into a ferocious headwind - Bromptonistas could get the bus, obvs, but he wouldn't let us on and then we ruined a perfectly nice taxi trying to get the bikes in the back (Bromptonistas ..... blah) , so had to ride to the ferry. This bit was brutal - headwind, no sleep, a damaged Suzie, and a howling bottom bracket on my bike. But we dozed nicely on the ferry, which was almost empty. We might not all fit on the same tram. It took three bikes OK. You pay a few euros for the bike. My recollection is that it wasn't much faster than a fit cyclist could do, but the headwind was strong and we had been up all night........


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## mmmmartin (24 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> There was a thread after last year, Might be worth a read if you can find it.


Here it is:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/flemish-nrttk.128888/page-5


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## StuartG (24 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> This bit was brutal - headwind


@swarm_catcher might wish to correct me but that coastal westerly AFAIR is a permanent fixture and peaks on that delightful stretch between Dunkirk and Gravelines. Not to be attempted without spirited refreshment.


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## redfalo (24 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Last time we booked on the 4pm ferry and had about an hour or so to spare. The ride along the coast in the world's longest tram ride is surprisingly quick - although I think I was asleep for some of it. Then we had to ride from De Panne to Dunkirk into a ferocious headwind - Bromptonistas could get the bus, obvs, but he wouldn't let us on and then we ruined a perfectly nice taxi trying to get the bikes in the back (Bromptonistas ..... blah) , so had to ride to the ferry. This bit was brutal - headwind, no sleep, a damaged Suzie, and a howling bottom bracket on my bike. But we dozed nicely on the ferry, which was almost empty. We might not all fit on the same tram. It took three bikes OK. You pay a few euros for the bike. My recollection is that it wasn't much faster than a fit cyclist could do, but the headwind was strong and we had been up all night........



See, Bromptonistas rulez.

According to the Tram's website the journey from Oostend to De Panne takes about 50 min. tram every 15 min on a Sunday morning. It'a 20 miles of cycling. So the tram looks like a real alternative, in case its too windy. This makes the 4pm ferry look even more realistically.


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## Mice (25 Feb 2014)

Hello @swarm_catcher - please an I put my name down (need to double check dates and travel ets) but this seemed enormous fun when I read about it last year(apart from Agwnt Hs stoic 70+ miles with n injury)

Mice


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## swarm_catcher (25 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> Hello @swarm_catcher - please an I put my name down (need to double check dates and travel ets) but this seemed enormous fun when I read about it last year(apart from Agwnt Hs stoic 70+ miles with n injury)
> 
> Mice


You're on the list. I'm like a newsreader at the moment. Appearing all calm and matter of fact. Underneath my legs are pedalling in anticipation of a, let's not jinx it, a fine night ride to the coast.


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## StuartG (25 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> Hello @swarm_catcher - please an I put my name down


Big bike, little bike...???


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## swarm_catcher (25 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> Big bike, little bike...???


 Borrow a bike, rent a bike...???


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## StuartG (25 Feb 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> Borrow a bike, rent a bike...???


Just to add for the impoverished I'm paying £12 to get to Brussels and £5 back from Gent (a short rail trip back from Ostend). That £17.50 return including booking fee and is London to London including Channel Tunnel. Which leaves a lotta cash free for rental ... if you don't want to try and sneak a Brommie through (bikes are officially banned which will add a little frisson to departure).


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## mmmmartin (25 Feb 2014)

Bikes are ok on Megabus - usually. One German paid two quid for a trip from Cologne to London, and wrapped his bike up and got it on, then used it on an audax near Midhurst. He did say that the bus driver was a keen cyclist, so YMMV. Removing the wheels and wrapping it up in something might work for a "proper" bike but then again it might not..... Which is why I'll have a mini-adventure via Dover, Dunkirk, De Panne, etc etc.
Bromptons could easily be disguised by wrapping in bin liners and parcel tape.
EDIT (And re-edited for accuracy)
Annoying fact: Megabus (owned by Stagecoach of the UK) specifically bans bikes, yet Alsa, the Spanish bus company (owned by National Express of the UK) specifically allows bikes at a fee of €10 provided they are wrapped in plastic, to protect other luggage from oily chains, I guess.
I bet they run the exactly the same buses.


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## StuartG (25 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Bromptons could easily be disguised by wrapping in bin liners and parcel tape.


Oh so that's what Louise was sharing a bus shelter with


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## dellzeqq (25 Feb 2014)

redfalo said:


> See, Bromptonistas rulez.
> 
> According to the Tram's website the journey from Oostend to De Panne takes about 50 min. tram every 15 min on a Sunday morning. It'a 20 miles of cycling. So the tram looks like a real alternative, in case its too windy. This makes the 4pm ferry look even more realistically.


that's how we did it, but without Martin's amazing routefinding through Dunkerque we would have been stuffed.


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## BalkanExpress (25 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Bikes are ok on Megabus - usually. One German paid two quid for a trip from Cologne to London, and wrapped his bike up and got it on, then used it on an audax near Midhurst. He did say that the bus driver was a keen cyclist, so YMMV. Removing the wheels and wrapping it up in something might work for a "proper" bike but then again it might not..... Which is why I'll have a mini-adventure via Dover, Dunkirk, De Panne, etc etc.
> Bromptons could easily be disguised by wrapping in bin liners and parcel tape.
> EDIT (And re-edited for accuracy)
> Annoying fact: Megabus (owned by Stagecoach of the UK) specifically bans bikes, yet Alsa, the Spanish bus company (owned by National Express of the UK) specifically allows bikes at a fee of €10 provided they are wrapped in plastic, to protect other luggage from oily chains, I guess.
> I bet they run the exactly the same buses.


 

Problem solved*: drop the front wheel out and you have bike parts and not a bike 

*or perhaps not solved at all


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## mmmmartin (25 Feb 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Problem solved*: drop the front wheel out and you have bike parts and not a bike
> 
> *or perhaps not solved at all


Yebbut - the website says one piece of luggage the size of a standard suitcase. And the reason our friend in Cologne took Megabus was because he couldn't get the recumbent bike on Eurostar, so he was left with only Megabus. 

*thinks* 
It's odd that they ban bikes, because they'd be much richer if they allowed bikes and charged £20 for them - that is equivalent to three or four passengers, but using up no seatspace. I might write to the chief exec and point this out.


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## StuartG (25 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> I might write to the chief exec and point this out.


Not till May 4th please ...


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## Mice (25 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> Big bike, little bike...???


Hahaha @StuartG at this point I am spoilt for choice. It does seem an awfully long way for small wheels...!

Mice


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## Tim Hall (25 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> Big bike, little bike...???


Cardboard box.

Innit.


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## Mice (26 Feb 2014)

The more I read about last year's ride the more I know it's going to be a bit good. The size of wheel decision has yet to be made but I'm just trying to work out travel stuff. Hilariously I can't work out what the days and dates of travel are so if @swarm_catcher you could fill in the gaps that would be fab.

Time and Day??
Ferry to Dover to Dunkirk (24hr return with bicycle via DFDS)

Cycle 20 miles (33k) to De Panne. (2hrs with a tailwind) need route!

Train to Brussels Central euros 18 plus 5 for bike

Meeting point?

Depart from somewhere at a particular time!!

Stop in Ghent. Set fire to tramlines

Coffee in Bruges 

Ostend for Breakfast

Tram from Ostend to De Panne station

Cycle back to Dunkirk for the ferry

Ferry to Dover

Much thanks!!

Mice

PS wherever that coffee stop is @mmmmartin please can we go there @swarm_catcher 
PPS Im not a mole (I'm a Mice) so I don't do tunnels (hence the ferry). Just have to workout how to break this news to DZ for the Burnham ride as there's no way I'm going in the Rotherhithe thingy  (fingers crossed there'll be an above ground solution to that)!!


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## mmmmartin (26 Feb 2014)

All good. No need for maps, routes, etc. We can meet at the station at Dover and ride en masse to the ferry port, and across Dunkirk to De Panne and get the train together then walk out of the station to the cafe together. All v easy. Ditto the return, which I rode last year. The only issue is that the trams on the return might not take all the bikes, in which case some must wait 15 minutes for the next one. If Megabus used, small wheels will be accepted and this system could be used, as per @StuartG . If not Megabus then no need for folding, small-wheeled, inferior riding machines.


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## Mice (26 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> All good. No need for maps, routes, etc. We can meet at the station at Dover and ride en masse to the ferry port, and across Dunkirk to De Panne and get the train together then walk out of the station to the cafe together. All v easy. Ditto the return, which I rode last year. The only issue is that the trams on the return might not take all the bikes, in which case some must wait 15 minutes for the next one. If Megabus used, small wheels will be accepted and this system could be used, as per @StuartG . If not Megabus then no need for folding, small-wheeled, *inferior riding machines*.


Hahaha @mmmmartin that could get you into a bit of bother!! Thank you for he reply - v helpful - all I need to know now (well not right now but soon) are the dates. Is the ferry Friday out or Saturday out (what time) and returning Sunday or Monday - and time? I suspect it's already in the thread but being a bit of a thicky (Latin??) and a bit zzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!

Mice 

Edited to correct word correct from but to bit!!


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## mmmmartin (26 Feb 2014)

Sigh.
*goes away and makes effort to calm down*
Out Saturday. Back Sunday.
(The clue is in the thread title.)


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## mmmmartin (26 Feb 2014)

PS. As for the Rotherhithe going-underground-on-a-deserted-road-at-1am-thingy you'll be fine. There'll be at least half a dozen hairy-arsed chaps on bikes behind you. And perhaps even @Adrian, as well....


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## StuAff (26 Feb 2014)

@Mice Pretty much all the info you need is in the first post. Honest. Take a deep breath, or a nap if zzzzz is anything to go buy, read it.....and relax.


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## swarm_catcher (27 Feb 2014)

Ride specific answers below (not to be mistaken for Ferry/Train logistics).

Meeting point? In Brussels the meeting point is La Chaloupe D'Or on the 'Grote Markt' (Grand Place). Directions are in the image and gpx is attached.

Note the detour via Manneken Pis 
You can shortcut into the 'Grote Markt' by walking, you'll be drawn into it.







Depart from somewhere at a particular time!! 12 midnight or when everybody is present whichever comes first.

Stop in Ghent. Set fire to tramlines. Stop will be 8km before Gent, friends of the family are putting up a middle of the night stop for us. They have asked what we'd like to eat and how they like to cook and bake. My initial reply was: 'as flemish as possible'. Hope you'll agree . 

Coffee in Bruges. Possibly, see how time goes. BalkanExpress would love to show off Brugge and do a mini tour. Going through Brugge when the streets are empty is a treat! Can't wait myself. It might be an incentive to get going along the canals all else (mechanicals/weather) being equal.

Ostend for Breakfast. Definitely, either Vismijn Kanteen or Patisserie on the other side of the port. De Vismijn Kanteen is an unknown, looks like it might serve beer at all times but TBC (for those who are interested), and I've been told not to go there on my own. Well....

Again, the ride is not Friday but SATURDAY 3rd May, arrive in Oostende on the Sunday morning. It's the weekend of the first May Bank Holiday.


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## Mice (27 Feb 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Sigh.
> *goes away and makes effort to calm down*
> Out Saturday. Back Sunday.
> (The clue is in the thread title.)



Ha! You mean the clue that says it's a Friday Night Ride or the clue that says it's the Saturday??  No matter I'll just book a ferry and hope for the best? 

Mice


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## Mice (27 Feb 2014)

StuAff said:


> @Mice Pretty much all the info you need is in the first post. Honest. Take a deep breath, or a nap if zzzzz is anything to go buy, read it.....and relax.


@StuAff The bits I was looking for were the ferry time options (maybe there is only one ferry). I was quite happy to follow the ask a silly question routine but I'm not sure which category your response falls into.

Mice


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## swarm_catcher (27 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> Ha! You mean the clue that says it's a Friday Night Ride or the clue that says it's the Saturday??  No matter I'll just book a ferry and hope for the best?
> 
> Mice


 
It's Flemish Night Ride to the Kust!!


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## Mice (27 Feb 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> It's Flemish Night Ride to the Kust!!


Hahahahahaha! That makes much more sense!

Mice


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## StuAff (27 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> @StuAff The bits I was looking for were the ferry time options (maybe there is only one ferry). I was quite happy to follow the ask a silly question routine but I'm not sure which category your response falls into.
> 
> Mice


First point: I wasn't having a go, most of the (ride-related) queries you had were answered by Els in the very first post, and you did seem to be asking questions that had already been answered (ride meet point for one).
Second: There are plenty of ferries- I agree that we'll have to sort out which one we'll be going over on (and naturally make our own travel arrangements to get there based on that). No rush.


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## martint235 (27 Feb 2014)

It appears I haven't yet thrown my hat in the ring for this. I'm very interested, now I just need to sort out the logistics.


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## swarm_catcher (27 Feb 2014)

StuAff are you a definite and no longer TBC?


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## StuAff (27 Feb 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> StuAff are you a definite and no longer TBC?


Not absolutely certainly just yet....


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## StuAff (27 Feb 2014)

@mmmmartin Having consulted the DFDS timetable and the Belgian railways timetable, and allowing a couple of hours to get to De Panne (should be a lot quicker, but best to err on the side of caution) might I suggest either the 2pm or 4pm crossing from Dover would be best. Trains from De Panne to Brussels Central are one an hour, at five minutes to the hour, and just over two hours (2:06 if we change trains, 2:15 straight through), so the 1955 service (the one we're likely to make after the 1600 ferry, at least without the aid of PEDs) would get us into Brussels just after 10pm. I'm thinking that despite the early start required, I'd rather go for the 2pm ferry- partly to allow time to see more of Brussels, and partly so I have the option of riding the last 25km or so into the centre (might as well get the 161km a month challenge ride done and dusted).


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## StuartG (27 Feb 2014)

Given that I plan to arrive in Brussels about 16:30 it would be nice to have some other early arrivals to share a relaxed supper.


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## martint235 (27 Feb 2014)

StuartG said:


> Given that I plan to arrive in Brussels about 16:30 it would be nice to have some other early arrivals to share a relaxed supper.


 If I can figure it all out, I plan to be on the 2pm ferry. I have no idea what time that means I'll get to Brussels but it will be before midnight.


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## Mice (27 Feb 2014)

StuAff said:


> @Mice Pretty much all the info you need is in the first post. Honest. Take a deep breath, or a nap if zzzzz is anything to go buy, read it.....and relax.





StuAff said:


> @[S]mmmmartin[/S] Having consulted the DFDS timetable and the Belgian railways timetable, and allowing a couple of hours to get to De Panne (should be a lot quicker, but best to err on the side of caution) might I suggest either the 2pm or 4pm crossing from Dover would be best. Trains from De Panne to Brussels Central are one an hour, at five minutes to the hour, and just over two hours (2:06 if we change trains, 2:15 straight through), so the 1955 service (the one we're likely to make after the 1600 ferry, at least without the aid of PEDs) would get us into Brussels just after 10pm. I'm thinking that despite the early start required, I'd rather go for the 2pm ferry- partly to allow time to see more of Brussels, and partly so I have the option of riding the last 25km or so into the centre (might as well get the 161km a month challenge ride done and dusted).



Ahaaaa. At last the information I was looking for. Thank you. If there is a suggested plan for the return journey that would be brilliantly helpful too. My knowledge of Belgium is so non-existent that seeing Brussel to Gent in the opening post meant absolutely nothing to me. Now, thanks to your research @StuAff I can see a plan coming together. I'm even now thinking of little wheels @redfalo and @StuartG (no decision made yet tho!!)

Many thanks

Mice


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## StuAff (27 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> Ahaaaa. At last the information I was looking for. Thank you. If there is a suggested plan for the return journey that would be brilliantly helpful too. My knowledge of Belgium is so non-existent that seeing Brussel to Gent in the opening post meant absolutely nothing to me. Now, thanks to your research @StuAff I can see a plan coming together. I'm even now thinking of little wheels @redfalo and @StuartG (no decision made yet tho!!)
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Mice


You're welcome. 
Chutney (no, not mayonaisse  ) might get a foreign outing if we're all going origamist....


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## Mice (27 Feb 2014)

StuAff said:


> You're welcome.
> Chutney (no, not mayonaisse  ) might get a foreign outing if we're all going origamist....


I haven't made my mind up - if there's an elevation graph of the route that will help me make my mind up. On the other hand if Lelly is with us I'd better bring big wheels as she might be rather irritated at the amount of waiting she does (not to mention @swarm_catcher!!)


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## StuAff (27 Feb 2014)

Chutney might be quite handy for dealing with cobblestones and tramlines....40mm tyres. And not slow.


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## swarm_catcher (28 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> I haven't made my mind up - if there's an elevation graph of the route that will help me make my mind up. On the other hand if Lelly is with us I'd better bring big wheels as she might be rather irritated at the amount of waiting she does (not to mention @swarm_catcher!!)


Think pancake, and tilt towards the sea. 

The elevation graph might be misleading unless you can calibrate 80m max.







And @Mice, waiting is a photo opportunity - the more the better. Hope that helps


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## srw (28 Feb 2014)

Mice said:


> if there's an elevation graph of the route


It looks something like this:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those spikes you can see in swarm-catcher's trace are probably bridges over canals. That's what Flanders is like.

I wish we were available - this sounds like a lovely adventure across brilliant terrain through two gorgeous cities. Unfortunately my office is sending us to Barcelona for a couple of days of conference and a couple of days of R&R.


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## mmmmartin (28 Feb 2014)

Last year I took the 4pm ferry over and the 4pm ferry back.
On the way over I had about an hour to wait for the train at De Panne.
On the way back we had about an hour to wait for the ferry.
It worked well. The email from DFDS shows I made the booking three days before the sailing. Plenty of time yet.
I'll say it now and several more times: the food on those DFDS ferries is horrid. Bring a sarnie.


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## redfalo (1 Mar 2014)

Mice said:


> if there's an elevation graph of the route that will help me make my mind up.@swarm_catcher!!)



here's a 4 step guide to get one:

1) Take a sheet of paper
2) take a pencil
3) draw a straight line
4) look at your elevation graph


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## BalkanExpress (1 Mar 2014)

redfalo said:


> here's a 4 step guide to get one:
> 
> 1) Take a sheet of paper
> 2) take a pencil
> ...



FTFY


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## Mice (1 Mar 2014)

redfalo said:


> here's a 4 step guide to get one:
> 
> 1) Take a sheet of paper
> 2) take a pencil
> ...



Brilliant! So the only hill is the ramp to/from the ferry!! 

Mice


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## BalkanExpress (7 Mar 2014)

The guardian of all things spiritual in my household has just realized that Sunday 4th is our eldest's first communion.

I am trying to work out how far I can get along the ride and still be back to transport family including assorted in-laws to church by 10.00am. 

Worst case scenario I lead the merry band out of town and wave goodnight on the edge of Brussels, best case scenario/extreme wishful thinking reach Bruges around 7 and still home before 9


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## redfalo (8 Mar 2014)

Religion is the opium of the people.


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## StuAff (8 Mar 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> StuAff are you a definite and no longer TBC?


I am now. Tickets for the ferry bought- 2pm sailing from Dover, 4pm back from Dunkirk. Thinking of getting the train as far as Aalst and riding into Brussels from there.


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## swarm_catcher (8 Mar 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> The guardian of all things spiritual in my household has just realized that Sunday 4th is our eldest's first communion.
> 
> I am trying to work out how far I can get along the ride and still be back to transport family including assorted in-laws to church by 10.00am.
> 
> Worst case scenario I lead the merry band out of town and wave goodnight on the edge of Brussels, best case scenario/extreme wishful thinking reach Bruges around 7 and still home before 9


You can do it! See when the trains from Bruges are and we can work to that.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Mar 2014)

redfalo said:


> Religion is the opium of the people.


"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".


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## martint235 (8 Mar 2014)

martint235 said:


> It appears I haven't yet thrown my hat in the ring for this. I'm very interested, now I just need to sort out the logistics.


I'm now out I'm afraid. It's a friend's 60th birthday party in London that night


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## StuAff (8 Mar 2014)

martint235 said:


> I'm now out I'm afraid. It's a friend's 60th birthday party in London that night


Unlike.


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## StuAff (8 Mar 2014)

Whilst watching appropriate TV ('Salamander'), been looking at possible cycling routes into Brussels. From Aalst, N9 all the way looks (a) straightforward and (b) safe enough. From the N9, just a case of keep going the same way I think?

Also, found this handy guide to Belgian cycling law https://www.kuleuven.be/transportation/pdf/guideforcycling.pdf


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## dellzeqq (9 Mar 2014)

StuAff said:


> Whilst watching appropriate TV ('Salamander'), been looking at possible cycling routes into Brussels. From Aalst, N9 all the way looks (a) straightforward and (b) safe enough. From the N9, just a case of keep going the same way I think?
> 
> Also, found this handy guide to Belgian cycling law https://www.kuleuven.be/transportation/pdf/guideforcycling.pdf


it's not straightforward. Cycling out of Brussels at midnight was unbelievably complex, and, without David and Els we would have been stuffed.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Mar 2014)

the trick with cycling in Brussels is not to do it sober.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Mar 2014)

and have a gps with opencyclemaps on it, and be prepared to use cycletracks....


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## StuAff (9 Mar 2014)

Points taken.....


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## swarm_catcher (11 Mar 2014)

StuAff said:


> Unlike.


+1


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## martint235 (11 Mar 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> +1


 Sorry. This ride now joins my list of "Issues" to be tackled at a future date. Hopefully the current two rides on the list, York and Swansea, will be sorted this year.


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## BalkanExpress (11 Mar 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> You can do it! See when the trains from Bruges are and we can work to that.



Trains are around 07.00 and 07.30

Negotiations are ongoing


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## BalkanExpress (11 Mar 2014)

[quote

Also, found this handy guide to Belgian cycling law https://www.kuleuven.be/transportation/pdf/guideforcycling.pdf[/quote]

Ohhps there goes our "bunch of foreigners who do n't know the rules" defense


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## StuAff (11 Mar 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> > Also, found this handy guide to Belgian cycling law https://www.kuleuven.be/transportation/pdf/guideforcycling.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhps there goes our "bunch of foreigners who do n't know the rules" defense


I found it.


Didn't say I'd read it


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## StuartG (11 Mar 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Also, found this handy guide to Belgian cycling law


A very poor job expecting me to read beyond page 1. Where was the Executive Overview?

Do I need to wear clothes or anything? We need to be told upfront.


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## StuAff (11 Mar 2014)

StuartG said:


> A very poor job expecting me to read beyond page 1. Where was the Executive Overview?
> 
> Do I need to wear clothes or anything? We need to be told upfront.


Not having read it, I am unable to comment


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## StuAff (17 Mar 2014)

Is the route out of Brussels going anywhere near the Atomium?


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## BalkanExpress (21 Mar 2014)

StuAff said:


> Is the route out of Brussels going anywhere near the Atomium?



No, but we do go past the largest brick built church in the world


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## mmmmartin (22 Mar 2014)

and very impressive it is too. All lit up and beautiful.


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## BalkanExpress (1 Apr 2014)

Since we are edging ever closer i thought I'd put up some general information for those who like to do a bit of advance planning.

Links to maps

There are a few on-line and or interactive cycle maps of Brussels: none are brilliant but here you go just in case anyone is thinking of riding around town in the afternoon

http://www.aquaterra.be/fr/cartographie/portfolio-cartographie/?project=19

http://www.bruxellesmobilite.irisnet.be/articles/velo/itineraires-cyclables

http://www.bruxellesmobilite.irisnet.be/velo/
Food and stuff.

In an ideal world we'd all like to eat good, value for money food, and keep an eye on our bikes at the same time. If the weather is good these places fit the bill and are withing a few hundred yards of the Grand Place

Fin de Siecle: Busy, very busy, join the queue and engage in some serious good value carb loading 
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g188644-d1852850-Reviews-Fin_de_Siecle-Brussels.html

De Markten, okay food but lots of outdoor tables to enjoy the sunshine
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g188644-d1023216-Reviews-De_Markten_Cafe-Brussels.html

la villette, next door to de Markten, less outdoor space but solid belge food (There are a few other places on the same square )
http://www.la-villette.be/
Bij Den Boer, best value on "St Catherine" no terrace but good views from the windows
http://www.bijdenboer.com/
L'express, Lebanese takeaway on the Grand Place, cheap quick and tasty
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g188644-d810860-Reviews-L_Express-Brussels.html


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## StuAff (1 Apr 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Since we are edging ever closer i thought I'd put up some general information for those who like to do a bit of advance planning.
> 
> Links to maps
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Still thinking of riding in from Aalst, via the Atomium (for a photo or two).


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## mmmmartin (22 Apr 2014)

Is there any change on the numbers for this?
(Yes, this is an unashamed bump for the thread)


swarm_catcher said:


> Saturday (not Friday) 3rd May is the night for the 2nd edition of the Flemish Night Ride to the Kust.
> The roll call so far:
> 
> mmmmartin
> ...


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## BalkanExpress (22 Apr 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Is there any change on the numbers for this?
> (Yes, this is an unashamed bump for the thread)



I will be leading you all out of town and then heading back off to bed


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## swarm_catcher (23 Apr 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Is there any change on the numbers for this?
> (Yes, this is an unashamed bump for the thread)


Hi mmmartin,
No change but Tim still TBC (haven't heard so don't think he's doing it) and Dave doing the lead out.
Will be emailing everybody soon for final confirmation, details and gpx.
Els


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## swarm_catcher (23 Apr 2014)

You should all have received a Conversation invite where I've posted final details and gpx file.


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## AKA Bob (24 Apr 2014)

Els,

Is there still space to join you for this ride?


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## mmmmartin (24 Apr 2014)

I have emailed Swarm_catcher, and invited you to the conversation.


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## swarm_catcher (24 Apr 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> Els,
> 
> Is there still space to join you for this ride?


Certainly! You're in.


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## redfalo (24 Apr 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> You should all have received a Conversation invite where I've posted final details and gpx file.


erm, I didn't


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## mmmmartin (24 Apr 2014)

I have invited you to the conversation.
(Once there, you will see that some unfortunate Olaf, not seen in these forums simce 2012, is, probably to his astonishment, also a member of the conversation. )


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## swarm_catcher (24 Apr 2014)

Apologies Olaf and redfalo. Thanks Martin, I just invited him also - so he'll not feel left out anymore 
The 'not seen Olaf since 2012' is unlikely to see the invite, however I would prefer to take him off the list - don't know how though.


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## mmmmartin (24 Apr 2014)

Ask the admin folk, they can do it


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## mmmmartin (2 May 2014)

@AKA Bob and @redfalo 
I have posted in the conversation a warning about buses-replace-trains for the return journey on Sunday, which makes it fine for @redfalo and me to be dropped at Sevenoaks on the return - he to go to London Cannon Street by train, me to ride home. Not sure how @StuAff is affected by this. StuartG not affected as he is a Megabus chappie.


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## StuAff (2 May 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> @AKA Bob and @redfalo
> I have posted in the conversation a warning about buses-replace-trains for the return journey on Sunday, which makes it fine for @redfalo and me to be dropped at Sevenoaks on the return - he to go to London Cannon Street by train, me to ride home. Not sure how @StuAff is affected by this. StuartG not affected as he is a Megabus chappie.


Not affected, thankfully.


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## BalkanExpress (3 May 2014)

The sun is shinning bright and clear


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## mmmmartin (3 May 2014)

About to go underground dans le tunnel avec AKA Bob. Tres exciting!


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## BalkanExpress (4 May 2014)

the magnificent 7 have been escorted out of Brussels and are heading off into the night under clear sky's and a crescent moon.


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## mmmmartin (4 May 2014)

Superb trip. Home now. Wonderful company. Amazing halfway stop.
More later. Now sleep.


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## StuAff (4 May 2014)

On my way back from Waterloo (about an hour later home than originally planned). If it could happen, it did happen on the way back. Even more of a tortured farce than the journey to Brussels. More to follow in the morning......it's an epic tale & I've been up since 0645 yesterday. Somewhat knackered.
Ride itself was very much worth the bother, of course. Great job Els, and thanks everyone.


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## StuartG (5 May 2014)

Should have taken the bus Stu. And gotten to see the Atomium to boot


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

StuartG said:


> Should have taken the bus Stu. And gotten to see the Atomium to boot


Us young(er) people don't get the cheapo bus tickets you know....


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## StuartG (5 May 2014)

StuAff said:


> Us young(er) people don't get the cheapo bus tickets you know....


I wish, they wouldn't accept my bus pass. It cost a whole fiver to get home from Gent. Don't even get student discount. Ripoff.

That still didn't ruin a brilliant ride. Well that's excepting the cobbles of Brugges which ended thirty five years of perfect harmony between me and my Brooks. The firm but fitting leather was transformed into a pneumatic hammer and made the final 20km a very painful experience. Thank you @swarm_catcher for sticking with me and encouraging me on to Oostende. Much appreciated. Indeed thank you for everything.

I agree with @mmmmartin - the best Friday overnight ever.


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## mmmmartin (5 May 2014)

Excellent little adventure with so much crammed into a couple of days.
Let us hope fervently that @swarm_catcher organises this again next year, although I can't see a repeat of this year's halfway stop - it's too much of an imposition on the wonderful family - so that needs to be sorted.
Train to Ashford, picked up by @AKA Bob drive to tunnel, through and drive to De Panne in Belgium, park car outside a random house on a residential street. Ride along the coast to Ostend. 
Saw strange hotel that looked like a ship:





Main road busy but had segregated cycle path. There is a cycle path along the promenade but it was chokka with forrin peeps and cyclists and dogs etc. At one point we opted to see some countryside by riding alongside a canal but finished up on a muddy track, the sort that would have prompted a look of the most disgust from @dellzeqq so we returned to the coast road.
At Ostend station AKA Bob bought a ticket for him (no ticket needed for his folding bike, obvs), I struggled to extract ticket for self plus non-folding bike with a machine and non-performing credit card then went for the ticket chappie option, tried my French but was told in the finest Oxford accent: "Here we do not speak French, we speak English and Flemish." Rushed to train that was being delayed by AKA Bob folding his bike in the _s_l_o_w_e_s_t p_o_s_s_i_b_l_e m_a_n_n_e_r_ and made it with four seconds to spare. Arrived Brussels Central and after the mandatory faffing with GPS and (failed) attempt to use loos in the extremely posh hotel wandered to Grand Place and took almost three minutes to get there. Steak and chips in the Golden Boot followed by arrival of entire team and away we go. Here are some of us:




We were led by @BalkanExpress by the cleverest way through the most interminable series of tiny lanes and streets to the outskirts of Brussels - ensure he always is with you or follow the GPS track that @redfalo will have. Balkan Express waved goodbye at the outskirts and set off for a warm bed. We set off for the countryside.
Temperature was chilly, felt like 4 degrees, roads were flat as a pancake and hardly saw a car. We stormed along at about 22kph max and rarely below 17kph, TBH I was feeling the strain. @Flandrienne was on a heavy bike but these Belgians seem to really understand how to make a bike shift. Maybe they're good at racing as well? Not sure........ 
At 3.30am we rolled up into a tiny, sleeping village and stopped at the only house with lights on and went inside to discover the friendliest warmest welcome and a table groaning under the weight of wonderful Flemish food: pains au chocolat, pains au raisin, croissants, breads, ham, cheese, cake, spreads, coffee etc etc etc, it was fantastic.







Suitably refuelled, we donned the mandatory extra layer and set off. Yet more perfect tarmac, small villages and empty roads greeted us, with long sections alongside canals with perfect, traffic-free (very often, no cars are allowed on them) sections. In our lights we could see tendrils of mist rising from the water, and once as we went under a bridge we incurred the wrath of a very small, vociferous duck that squawked loud enough to wake the gods. At Bruges we paused for only 10 minutes to drink water and scoff a bit of grub from saddlebags, rather than loiter at the posh coffee shop we patronised last year, and arrived in Ostend about 9am (I think, not sure). Perhaps we saw a couple of dozen cars on the entire ride.
The same coffee-shop cum bakery as we visited last year was open and several of us wolfed down a €15 "petit dejeuner copious" served quickly (by waitresses speaking English and Flemish - but not French oh *non!*) and AKA Bob beasted Redfalo and me away to the tram, where we paid €2 each plus €2 for my bike for the 90 minute journey to De Panne. We catnapped on the tram enough to restore some energy. On the way we passed @StuAff hurtling down the coast road at a great rate of knots with a big smile on his face, so he was obviously enjoying himself. 
@StuartG used the delights of a folding bike and Megabus to Gent, with a special "old codger's" rate to get him into Brussels and back from Ostend to Gent afterwards.
A short drive from De Panne to the tunnel, where we all slept on the way through and then we back to Dear Old Blighty.
You cannot beat this for a mini-adventure in a country that is supposed to be foreign but seems just like home. The cycling is superb, almost other-worldly, at times - the quality of the tarmac is uniformly excellent and the people friendly, it's not at all like south-east England. As dawn arrived we were by the water with the mist rising slowly and spreading into nearby woods as the dawn chorus became louder. Oh, and we passed some kangeroos. Honest. That's the sort of fantastical ride this turned out to be.
For my money, this is the best cycling the FNRttC offers, with York-Hull the only ride that comes close. Obviously the big, popular FNRttC events have the advantage of big numbers and the social buzz but this ride is my fave.
For 2015, it might be worth taking a car of four riders with bikes on the roofrack and using a ferry or the tunnel, parking in De Panne and the train in to Brussels then doing the ride and the tram back to De Panne.(For four the total cost of this might work out at about the price of the travel from London on the York-Hull ride)
My only advice would be to go for a late afternoon Channel crossing then you can linger longer on the ride and the breakfast, although this would perhaps mean missing out on the excitement of the 90mph motorway dash to catch the Eurotunnel train, which in our case added a little frisson to to an mini-adventure I can only describe as magical.
As always, thanks to @BalkanExpress for services above and beyond the call of duty, to @swarm_catcher but most especially to her friends, who - *mum, dad, grandad and grandmum plus young child *- got up at 3am and laid on the most wonderful, warm welcome and food for a random bunch of complete strangers who emerged out of the night, wolfed it all down and disappeared into the night. Only in Flanders...........


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## BalkanExpress (5 May 2014)

Sounds like the most wonderful of nights.

It was with great reluctance that I let you set of into the night without me, but, and this will sound heretical, there are somethings in life that outweigh even the best of bike rides. Next year I should be back for the full ride. 

I'm glad that the route to Gent worked out, as I can now confess that some of it had only been ridden by me via streetwiew.


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

My ride report...
The very short version....
Act 1: Dunkerque to De Panne (and hence Brussels): Eeerk! Grr! Hrmph!
Act 2: Brussels to Ostend: Wow! Yay! Flanderstastic!
Act 3: Ostend to Dunkerque: Ouch! F****! F****! (and lots more F***!s).

The very long version....
Warning: This part contains numerous examples of incidents of which the reader may think 'I wouldn't have done that', or 'why didn't he do that?'…hindsight's very straightforward, and so is armchair criticism. If just a few of those things hadn't happened the whole ride sandwich would have been good as the lovely filling. No repeated loops of coastal towns like a really dull Euro adaptation of Groundhog Day, no lengthy stretches on fast roads, and most importantly no crashes and no missed ferry...But they *all* did. It was A Learning Opportunity. And dear reader, please don't take An Opportunity To Tell Me What I Should Have Done, because I've had plenty of time to think those over and I will do rather better next time. Ta 

In getting to Brussels, I went for the cheapskate less unreasonably priced option- trains along the coast via Brighton and Ashford Itsnotinternational to Dover, DFDS to Dunkirk, ride to De Panne. (Hindsight Learning Opportunity: go for HS1 and/or Eurostar or various other more expensive but less less tedious choices). The Plan, before it went awry, was (version one) train as far as Aalst or thereabouts and ride into Brussels to make the ride mileage up to the ton, modified in version two due to tight timings to train all the way into Brussels, then a short loop out to the Atomium for a photo or two before back to L'Chaloupe D'Or for meet-up and carb-loading. Well, the first part of that went OK.....

Up early, train east from Cosham at 8.05, first change at Brighton and second at Ashford, made Dover on time at noon. Plenty of time to make the 1315 check-in deadline for the 1400 ferry. In view of @mmmmartin's scathing assessment of the DFDS catering, I decided to eat in Dover, and went to the Dickens Corner cafe, who did a fine job for us on Adam's overnighter down there. Too late for the (excellent) breakfast, decided to have a Ploughman's lunch. Portion was positively Normand in size- will add the photo from my phone later. Edit: here it is...I really wasn't joking about the size, was I?




Decent price, tasted great, served quick. Trip round to the Eastern Docks was straightforward enough, no problems getting around and checking in. The journey itself was pretty uneventful, and self and fellow cyclists (there were quite a few) were first off, and I was on the way east by 5.25. I already had Martin's coastal route option loaded up on the Garmin, and the first part was straightforward enough (a couple of wrong turns due to machine or operator error but nothing major). Nice scenery, quiet roads, was making good time. Probably wouldn't make the 1855 train, but plenty of time for the 1955. Well, there was, until I reached the bridge.....What the photo doesn't show, and neither Martin nor the other people who've put that on routes may have been aware of (Martin certainly wasn't), is that it's raised to allow ships to pass through that section of the canal. And it was raised when I got there. I waited, I waited....no ships in view, no indication of when it might be lowered again. Must have been there fifteen or twenty minutes before I decided to turn back. That meant riding four miles back along the breakwater, there were no alternative options, then back round inland. If I'd taken the inland route to start with, if the bridge had been down, if I'd turned back quicker…I'd have made the train. (Hindsight Learning Opportunity: turn inland after the first stretch. You still get some of the pretty bits of the coastline, the inland roads were OK and you don't have to worry about the bridge). EDIT: And there are at least two more similar bridges further along, I had the second one in the first link I put up....!

After that, the rest of the ride to De Panne was quick and straightforward, roads quiet and weather perfect for it, but I'd lost the chance to make the 1955 train. The French drivers gave plenty of room, and there weren't that many of them anyway. I crossed the border into Vlaanderen (didn't take a photo of the yellow sign, should have...) at dead on 8. De Panne station reached ten minutes later. Got ticket from machine, no bike ticket required as I'd brought Chutney the folding rocket. My perusal of the Belgian Rail website had shown the faster option to get to Brussels was to change for the express service at Gent, but the timetables on the station didn't seem to mention that. Nice fluent-English man in the ticket office confirmed the express was both running and quicker. Forty-odd minutes later, on the train. Chutney went into a handy nook at the end of a carriage (didn't seem to be any luggage storage except above seats), nice fluent-English lady conductor was happy with that. Got to Gent on time, and the wait for the express was supposed to be fifteen minutes. You guessed it, it was late. Late enough to mean the speed advantage of fewer stops was wiped out, and then some. SMS exchange with Els to let her know I'd be late and to confirm that L'Chaloupe would still be serving food.

Finally got into Brussels at 11.15. All thoughts of going to the Atomium abandoned, made my way to the Grand Place (one word: wow!) and L'Chaloupe, where everyone else had of course arrived. Els was outside, and I requested that she advise the waiting group that I'd had an absolute mare of a time and really wasn't in the mood for any mickey-taking. Thankfully for me, everyone was understanding and sympathetic, and my mood quickly improved. The _Rijsttaart_ came highly recommended, and justly so. Just what I needed after that day- missed dinner on account of all of that....

Despite my tardiness, we were ready to go on time. A short walk to get off the Grand Place, the easiest way to get through the crowds and then we were on our way. David @BalkanExpress expertly lead the way out of town before heading home. It was indeed nippy, but by heck that was good riding...Belgian cycle lanes are, for the most part, thoroughly sensible and well designed things, unlike, oh, 99.99% or so of the British equivalent. No bits of blue/red paint on the side of the road with potholes and manhole covers here, oh no. Smooth, wide, much of it by canals and with gorgeous views. Not fond of the very steep bridges or the cobblestones, but you can't have everything. Cycle lanes/paths are actually mandatory in Belgium where indicated- it never felt like an imposition because they were so good. You just wouldn't want to use the road....

And then on to the extraordinary hospitality provided by the Vandevelde family. Garmin battery had suffered in the cold, so it went in the rucksack for a recharge (Hindsight Improvement Opportunities- work out how to do this on Chutney while actually being able to see it, and actually let the thing fully charge next time). And we, as that little lot on the table should make clear, were amply recharged too. Very well fed and extra clothing donned- not withstanding our pace, I was feeling the chill- we said our goodbyes and went on our way at 4.30 or so.

The sun rose. The mist cleared. The world's loudest duck did a Donington-level soundcheck. A bottle went into a canal. Stunning scenery, and kangaroos, now clearly visible. Plenty of cyclists went out for a morning spin. I tightened up the front lights two dozen times (or it felt like it). Brugge was as peachy as Brussels, though I'd tear up every one of those cobblestones. Chutney rattles more than any of my other bikes (the hinges and the long cables see to that), and the noise was horrendous, let alone the vibrations.

The final hop to Ostend was straightforward, and the nosh at Caruso was excellent. €15 well spent. Our party dissipated in search of trams and trains, and I said my farewells to the sisters not long after 10.30. Dunkerque was forty or so miles. Check-in for the ferry by 1515. Should have been simple enough. Should have been......

The first part went well enough, the odd large bank of sand on the coastal path notwithstanding- some I resorted to walking. I was indeed hurtling down at a great rate of knots when Team Tram passed me. Then, for some inexplicable reason I decided to argue with a tram line, and lost, hurtling down in the wrong direction. Yup, I didn't want to make that an FNRttK tradition, but I did. Banged knee, nicely scraped up right hand, equally scraped up right thigh. (Hindsight Learning Opportunity: Just stay away from tramlines, mmmkay?). A helpful local pointed out in Dutch where I should have been riding...yes, thanks for that. Picked myself up, got on with it. Still time in hand, still made decent progress, despite the constant 'ouch'. Until I reached De Panne, where I ended up going round and round in circles eight or nine times. Road signs not as clear as they could be, I didn't ask for directions, though I had printed the route to Dunkerque I didn't consult it, and I hadn't loaded the route on the Garmin (even if I was in the wrong place, I could have used it to get back on course), because I was worried about draining the battery again. Just trying to use it to see where I was, as so often, wasn't much use. I could have used the phone, but for its recent and very annoying sporadic issue of deciding it hasn't got a SIM card. No working SIM, no data connection and no map. Which was a real pain as in so many respects it's a better navigation aid than the Garmin. I thought to myself- I could get a bus to Dunkerque if need be, there's bound to be a taxi somewhere...but the buses were infrequent and unhelpfully scheduled, and I never saw a taxi. So on I pressed.

Got out of De Panne, stayed on course to Dunkerque, still had enough time…then Adventures In Misnavigation Round Two. There were four or five ways I could have gone that didn't involve multiple u-turns, dead ends, 90km/h roads and getting more and more stressed out, not to mention late for the ferry. I did none of those. And no, dear reader, I did not consult those maps, did not ask a local, and the mobile was again being unhelpful when I wanted to use it to find where I was. I tried loading a route on the Garmin, and it fell over. Oh, and as it was clearly one of those days, I had a chain drop that knotted itself around the derailleur and I nearly had a clipless moment, both in the middle of junctions. Eventually, I made the port just before four. If only I'd taken one or neither of those detours, if I had consulted a map, if.....I'd have made the ferry. As it was, far too late to get on the 4pm sailing. What should have been a forty mile ride in less than four hours had been fifty-five in five. Strava link for the whole ride since Brussels here. No cafe, only food available in vending machines, and a long wait...At least I was able to transfer to the six o'clock sailing and get some first aid....

I was The Cyclist on this sailing. Got a bit of a nap, had a passable enough Caesar salad (thought they couldn't ruin that, was thankfully right). Was the last person off the ferry, and just made Dover station in time for the next train north. I thought that there was no chance of getting home along the coast (Southern's last train to Brighton's about 2230!), so opted to stump up the forty-odd quid for a via-London one and stayed on the HS1 service until St Pancras. The short hop to Waterloo and I was in time for the fast service home, back at about 11pm (only an hour or so later than I would have been if I'd made the earlier sailing and trains not via London).

Wounds and stiffness will heal quick enough, and I will be in shape for this Friday night. And I will definitely be back for this one next year. Learning opportunities will be taken. Tramlines will be avoided.The Atomium will be photographed. More fun, less pain...

Thanks everyone. A fantastic day/night out, even with all those caveats, cuts and bruises.

PS:
For your viewing and listening pleasure (well, if you like industrial/EBM), one of my favourite Belgian works of art, in a promotional video featuring my favourite piece of Belgian architecture and featuring some Magritte-style odd symbolism.

PPS: Shot by a Dutchman. Never mind....


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## redfalo (5 May 2014)

This was a fantastic ride in many aspects. 

I enjoyed a nice Saturday in London and jumped on the the Eurostar at 7pm, arriving Brussels 22pm. 










I had a ridiculously cheap London-Cologne ticket (55 Euros or 45 quid) from Deutsche Bahn and only did the first part of the journey. On the train, I met an Estonian who manages a pub in Green Park, fell out with his French girlfriend and was on a last-minute escape to Brussels. 

I have been in Bruxelles numerous times on business trips but embarrasingly, have to admit that I never made it to the Grand Place, which blew me away. Nothing against HPC and Wellington Arch, but location wise the Flemish Night Ride's start beats everything. 






We met up in a nice restaurant which served a speciality unkown in England: white asparagus. I had a portion before heading off. 

We were a group of eight, including three Brompton riders. 






















The half-way stop can't be praised enough.











Bruges is another absolutely stunning jewel of a city. 



















@mmmmartin , @AKA Bob and I then jumped on what is the world's longest tram line, which brought us to @AKA Bob 's car. It was interesting to see how some people's characters change in the moment they are sitting behind a steering wheel, but also very instructive (I learned a ****load of new curses...).

This ride really deserves a re-run next year. Here's the track. Alternatively, one could ride from Brussels straight to Dunkirk, which is a tad longer (94 miles in total), but makes the journey back to Blighty easier and would be the first Friday Night Ride going through two countries.


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## redfalo (5 May 2014)

StuAff said:


> My ride report...
> The very short version....
> Act 1: Dunkerque to De Panne (and hence Brussels): Eeerk! Grr! Hrmph!
> Act 2: Brussels to Ostend: Wow! Yay! Flanderstastic!
> ...




Ouch! Glad to hear that you made it home in one piece, despite all this misfortune.


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## mmmmartin (5 May 2014)

Excellent account by @StuAff displaying highest level of determination in the face of adversity, *chapeau*
also
*reads two above posts*
*goes off to look at websites selling folding bikes*
*thinks about being on _the first FRNttC to visit two countries_*
*looks at the words *"94 miles in total"* and goes for lie down in a darkened room to regain senses*


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## mmmmartin (5 May 2014)

Calm down, @User13710 they are legwarmers. (Admittedly, the legs they are warming are mine, which makes them more exciting, obvs.)


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## BalkanExpress (5 May 2014)

[
For your viewing and listening pleasure (well, if you like industrial/EBM), one of my favourite Belgian works of art, in a promotional video featuring my favourite piece of Belgian architecture and featuring some Magritte-style odd symbolism.

PPS: Shot by a Dutchman. Never mind....[/QUOTE]

The other building featured is the "old" Berlaymont building: it has undergone a considerable face lift since the video was shot.

To add to the whole industrial theme, the Golden Chaloupe is about 100 metres from the former office of "Les Disques du Crepuscule"


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## BalkanExpress (5 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> Indeed! It didn't seem right to 'like' such a tale of woes, but I did like it - well done Stu.
> 
> Shocking photo of mmmmartin adjusting his stockings though.



Could have been worse...but I don't think there is a photo of Stu G's Gypsy Rose Lee routine


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## BalkanExpress (5 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> Oh he often does that. Was it the yellow rainlegs?



Not so much the what as the where...there have been many performances on the Grand Place over the years but this one will take some beating


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## mmmmartin (5 May 2014)

Rainlegs would be innocuous by comparison.......


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> > For your viewing and listening pleasure (well, if you like industrial/EBM), one of my favourite Belgian works of art, in a promotional video featuring my favourite piece of Belgian architecture and featuring some Magritte-style odd symbolism.
> >
> > PPS: Shot by a Dutchman. Never mind....
> 
> ...



I definitely wasn't thinking of that one!


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

Have been looking at Eurostar.com...they now sell tickets to and from any UK station, and also do tickets from any Belgian station via Brussels (these were news to me at least). Tickets each way as low as £63. And rather faster than the ferry options.....


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

It's a small (digital) world. Lot of Strava segments on the Brussels-Ghent-Oostende-Dunkerque ride, only a couple for Dunkerque-De Panne, including one on the Route Des Dunes (road east from the port). My time for the 2.5 miles was 12:51, average 11.5 mph. The KOM: 5:53, average 25.0 mph. Take a bow, @zigzag!


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## BalkanExpress (5 May 2014)

StuAff said:


> Have been looking at Eurostar.com...they now sell tickets to and from any UK station, and also do tickets from any Belgian station via Brussels (these were news to me at least). Tickets each way as low as £63. And rather faster than the ferry options.....



The issue here is the size of the bike. If it folds down to less than 85 CM on it's longest dimension you are on and laughing. Bigger than that and it's check in at 20 quid each way in advance


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> The issue here is the size of the bike. If it folds down to less than 85 CM on it's longest dimension you are on and laughing. Bigger than that and it's check in at 20 quid each way in advance


Indeed so. Chutney is easily small enough to do that, though having to bag it would be a bother (I do have a Dahon bag, but it's not the smallest or lightest thing, have a CTC clear bag as well but that's still fairly bulky). Big bike option is pricey, but would have advantages....


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## StuAff (5 May 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Excellent account by @StuAff displaying highest level of determination in the face of adversity, *chapeau*
> also
> *reads two above posts*
> *goes off to look at websites selling folding bikes*
> ...


Compared to Jensie, or Johnny Hoogerland, let alone Geraint Thomas completing the TdF with a fractured pelvis...that was nothing, really. 
94 miles? 'Tis nothing for a hardened audax type, surely. They do have bus shelters on the continent...


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## StuAff (6 May 2014)

redfalo said:


> This ride really deserves a re-run next year. Here's the track. Alternatively, one could ride from Brussels straight to Dunkirk, which is a tad longer (94 miles in total), but makes the journey back to Blighty easier and would be the first Friday Night Ride going through two countries.



94 miles seems a bit short....the shortest I could get with the mapping sites I tried was 109 with Bikehike, Google, Mapmyride & Ride with GPS all seem to insist on taking something equivalent to our route as far as Brugge, then picking up the coastal route at De Panne, giving about 120.


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## StuartG (6 May 2014)

Next year is a long time. Autumn in Antwerp anyone? Another destination of a certain transport company for those of diminished wheels and wallets


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## srw (6 May 2014)

Envious. Envious. Envious. (Though Barcelona wasn't bad...)

Bruges is one of our favourite cities; Ghent comes close. Our first cycling holiday ever was in Flanders - the _really_ long day from Bruges to Ghent was the centrepiece. Since then we've gone back several times, including starting our long ride to Spain from De Panne.

For a two-country FNR, if you hoick a right at Bruges you can follow another canal to Sluis, in the Netherlands - although getting away from there might be a challenge. Alternatively, I gather there's a 40-mile 4-country loop around Lake Constance...


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## BalkanExpress (6 May 2014)

StuAff said:


> 94 miles seems a bit short....the shortest I could get with the mapping sites I tried was 109 with Bikehike, Google, Mapmyride & Ride with GPS all seem to insist on taking something equivalent to our route as far as Brugge, then picking up the coastal route at De Panne, giving about 120.



Googlemaps when set to walk rather than cycle comes up at around 150 km. A few tweeks to avoid obvious footpaths (and pass De Panne so I can bail out) brings you in at just under 160 . I am not convinced that this is much shorter than Ostend and then down the coast, but I have an open mind.


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## BalkanExpress (6 May 2014)

StuartG said:


> Next year is a long time. Autumn in Antwerp anyone? Another destination of a certain transport company for those of diminished wheels and wallets



Antwerp-De Panne is around 140 km... Dunkirk around 180.


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## Flandrienne (6 May 2014)

We had a good time cycling from Brussels to Ostend , we got all safe and sound around the breakfast table at Caruso ! Thanks for the good teamwork, see you perhaps on the next satnightridettc !?


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## swarm_catcher (6 May 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Antwerp-De Panne is around 140 km... Dunkirk around 180.


That makes it coast to coast!


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## swarm_catcher (6 May 2014)

Lille to Dunkerque via Roeselare: 100km. That makes it a FFNRttC, French Flanders Night Ride to the Côte.


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## StuAff (6 May 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> Googlemaps when set to walk rather than cycle comes up at around 150 km. A few tweeks to avoid obvious footpaths (and pass De Panne so I can bail out) brings you in at just under 160 . I am not convinced that this is much shorter than Ostend and then down the coast, but I have an open mind.


Yes, I get the impression that the Google Maps cycle directions are very much a work in progress. With not much in the way of progress. My ride should have been about 200km all in, I added 25 km or so with all the navigation fails...


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## StuAff (6 May 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> Lille to Dunkerque via Roeselare: 100km. That makes it a FFNRttC, French Flanders Night Ride to the Côte.
> 
> View attachment 44445


And Lille neighbours Roubaix, so with a slight alteration in route we could have FFCCCNRtC...French Flanders Cobbled Classic Night Ride to the Côte (perhaps not- Tom Boonen impressions might end up resembling 2011, when he crashed).


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## StuartG (7 May 2014)

<heresy>A day ride would be nice</heresy>


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## StuartG (7 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> Ahem. Post 134.


Bit tough to do that in a day - even with a tail wind TMN!


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## swarm_catcher (7 May 2014)

Some of my favourite pictures.


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## swarm_catcher (7 May 2014)

But most of all ... us being oblivious to being nicely huddled ... in the middle of the road.






The rest are here: MyPhotos


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## mmmmartin (7 May 2014)

Els,
these are brilliant photographs and you obviously have a good eye for a picture.


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## swarm_catcher (8 May 2014)

@ianmac62 

Number 9 'The Swan', 4th house from the left.

"Rebuilt in 1698 in the Louis XIV style. As of 1720, this house became the home of the guild of butchers. Along with the Cornet house, it is the only one on the Grand'Place not to reflect the three classic architectural styles. It was in this building that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels wrote the "Communist Party Manifesto" in 1847 and that the Belgian Workers' Party was founded in 1885."


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## AKA Bob (8 May 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> But most of all ... us being oblivious to being nicely huddled ... in the middle of the road.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Els thank you for organising a brilliant ride and most certainly a must for next years calendar. Looking at your photos happy memories flood back.


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## StuAff (8 May 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> Els thank you for organising a brilliant ride and *most certainly a must for next years calendar*. Looking at your photos happy memories flood back.


Same here. Already considering the options for getting there and back.....


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## swarm_catcher (8 May 2014)

It was alright wasn't it?

Here it is: MyBlog
And my photo link again: MyPhotos





Doing what has to be done.


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## mmmmartin (9 May 2014)

Given the comments on the conversation about limiting the size of this ride next year, plus the fact that the effusive praise for it might prompt many more to sign up for it, could I just say two things:
1) Actually, it was a crap ride, very hilly, dull, not at all interesting, cold, boring and certainly not worth going on. food was terrible and no real atmosphere at all.
2) However, as these rides should be supported, could I now put my name down on the list for next year please?


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## swarm_catcher (9 May 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> Given the comments on the conversation about limiting the size of this ride next year, plus the fact that the effusive praise for it might prompt many more to sign up for it, could I just say two things:
> 1) Actually, it was a crap ride, very hilly, dull, not at all interesting, cold, boring and certainly not worth going on. food was terrible and no real atmosphere at all.
> 2) However, as these rides should be supported, could I now put my name down on the list for next year please?


 
In fact I agree mmmartin. Thank you for breaking the ice on the negatives of the ride. My point of contention is the hills - nobody mentions the hills, apart from Olaf.


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## StuAff (9 May 2014)

The hills? Oh god, don't mention the hills....let alone these........


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## AKA Bob (9 May 2014)

Considering it was meant to be a flat ride there seemed to be a fair bit of inclined sloped roads around and not sure if @StuartG will ever recover from those bumpy road surfaces through Brugge. Could explain why he chucked his bike on the ground so much..


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## wanda2010 (9 May 2014)

Didn't work. Where do I sign?


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