# Windcheetah and a few questions about recumbents in general.



## Pumpkin the robot (23 Nov 2014)

I have been offered a windcheetah for about £1350. I am going to try it out this week and see how I get on with it. I have often thought about getting a recumbent, but have wondered about the visibility to other vehicles on the road. I would be using it for commuting through Manchester, so what are your experiences? Is it so different to other vehicles on the road that they sit up and take more notice of you? Or do you need a flag for people to see you?
I know I will not have the ability to filter through traffic like I can on a bicycle, but I am willing to accept that. Once you have a recembent do you still ride a bicycle? Or do you just want to ride the recumbent all the time? £1350 is a lot of money to me if it is just going to be a toy I may grow bored of in 6 months time, but I can justify it if I will be a useful addition to my bike collection.


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## CopperBrompton (23 Nov 2014)

Traffic is no problem in general - you look so unusual they tend to be cautious anyway, and if you adopt a strong secondary you'll find 99% of cars will change lanes to overtake. A flag is a good idea for when you are directly alongside traffic on multi-lane roads, and in car-parks, etc, where you have reversing vehicles.


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## zoxed (23 Nov 2014)

Not sure if you realise it, but the Windcheetah has a very limited range of leg length adjustment, so make sure that it does fit you correctly before buying it ! Also as these are a well known and popular trike I can imagine that you would not have too much trouble selling the trike for a similar price to what you paid for it.
I have commuted for over 10 years on my Kett without a flag and do not feel it is a problem. As you note you will not be able to filter so much, but I choose my regular route to be along more open roads, even though it is further it works out quicker !


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## ufkacbln (23 Nov 2014)

THe Windcheetah is an excellent machine, but......

As above it lacks the ability to adjust the boom to the individual rider, and also the joystick steering iid not as intuitive as the handlebars (direct or indirect) that other models have

Apart from that a week will answer all your other questions. Visibility is not an issue, with the same precautions as you would take with an ordinary bike such as lights, road positioning etc

As for filtering, it is surprisingly little different. The bike is only a little wider than your shoulders, as is the case on a normal bike.

To be honest I filter the same way as if it is too narrow for the trikes then it would be too narrow for an upright

Finally given the unique characteristics of this machine, if you do not get on, do not write off recumbents as a whole

I have ridden recumbents for some 25 years, and have tried most formats, my present stable is a Hurricane low racer, a Street Machine Tourer, Catrike Expedition touring trike, folding HPVelotechnik Gekko, and now a Kettwiesel

None is perfect, each has its own characteristics and quirks, but they are all fun in their own unique way.... you will find one that suits your needs and taste


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## Pumpkin the robot (23 Nov 2014)

Thank you for the replies.
I am on quite goos ternms with the guy selling it, so I may ask if I can borrow it for a week and see how I get on with it. If I do like it I can always alter my route to avoid Manchester town centre, it may add a little to the length, but I am not too bothered about that if it is a safer ride.


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## numbnuts (23 Nov 2014)

I've only had my trike for a few weeks and I'm loving it, I had all sorts of worries about traffic and not being seen, but I get more room than on the bike that's for sure.
The only thing I have found out with a trike is you can't get rid of that silly grin off your face every time I ride it.


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## ufkacbln (23 Nov 2014)

I love that grin

There is a lot of genuine interest, and if I judge it worthwhile and safe, I have let people try the trikes in controlled conditions.

At least twice this has converted into new trike riders

However it is always fun when they leave their partner or kids as a "deposit" and you point out that when they return that they will have a silly grin.... and their amusement when it happens


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## Ganymede (23 Nov 2014)

Re "do you still ride a bike" - I do. I have a semi-bent, not a trike, and although I love it (especially because it gives my shoulders and neck a rest) it is quite heavy so I cannot take it if I know I have to haul it up the steps of a railway bridge or similar (round here there are still several stations without lifts or road access to both sides of the track, and I have shoulder problems). It is also slower for me, so for example if I'm popping up the road to get the paper I will hop on the hybrid, but if I want a long ride for fun I will use the 'bent. 

I am thinking of getting a trike or a lighter 'bent (mine is an older-model HP Velotecnik Spirit which is pretty heavy). I think you get quite a lot of attention from drivers and passers-by on a 'bent, so visibility is not really a problem and you get people giving you plenty of room when they pass. Someone on here said once they thought it might partly be because drivers think you might be disabled, even if you're not!


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## ufkacbln (23 Nov 2014)

Classic definition of n+1

I still have a Brompton which sits by the door for shop runs when getting one of teh recumbents out would take more time than the trip to the shops on the folder


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## ufkacbln (23 Nov 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Someone on here said once they thought it might partly be because drivers think you might be disabled, even if you're not!




A few years ago there was a disabled sports competition in Portsmouth and several of the Schools used it as a learning exprience for the kids

I was cycling from work and on the Ferry with the Trice when I was stopped by two kids who were telling me about how they were doing a project on disabled sports and asking me questions.

They were so polite and respectful that I didn't have the heart to tell them I wasn't disabled, so had a conversation about how disabled sports raised self esteem, made a valuable contribution to the public image of the disabled and was a positive thing

They were delighted, as that was an angle the teacher had not come up with 


A few weeks later I met them again and they had got top marks for their insight!


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## Ganymede (23 Nov 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> A few years ago there was a disabled sports competition in Portsmouth and several of the Schools used it as a learning exprience for the kids
> 
> I was cycling from work and on the Ferry with the Trice when I was stopped by two kids who were telling me about how they were doing a project on disabled sports and asking me questions.
> 
> ...


That's hilarious and also very sweet.


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## classic33 (24 Nov 2014)

Rode through Manchester City Centre on my way home, after buying the Brox I now have. The amount of room given was way more than the previous week on two wheels. 
People were actually moving into the other lane for me.

Leeds, Bradford with similar results, trafficwise.


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## Pumpkin the robot (24 Nov 2014)

I have lined up a test ride tomorrow, so I will see how I get on.


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## byegad (24 Nov 2014)

Martin, the Windcheetah is a fine trike, but compared to most of the rest if the market has it's own features. The joystick steering has been mentioned and don't worry it'll become easy once you've adapted. The narrow track compared to my trikes means that you'll need to lean into corners rather more than I do. My QNT is wider than the Windcheetah and I have to get my weight right over the inside wheel at speed. All trikes need this and the only difference is that with the Windcheetah you need to do it at a lower speed. Again, once learned, this will become intuitive.


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## Pumpkin the robot (24 Nov 2014)

I will probably lean into corners anyway, as I also ride motorbikes!


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## Tigerbiten (25 Nov 2014)

Remember, even if you ride a bicycles normally, you use your muscles slightly differently on a recumbent.
So it will take you around 1,000 miles to get full bent fit and get your bent legs.


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## Pumpkin the robot (25 Nov 2014)

I am recovering from an accident in July and have not been on the bike since, so I dont have much fitness at all!


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## Ganymede (25 Nov 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> I am recovering from an accident in July and have not been on the bike since, so I dont have much fitness at all!


Take it easy then and do not be discouraged by the extra bit of oomph it takes to get uphill. Plan your routes well and build up your strength. The extra comfort of the 'bent is a real incentive to keep working on it, I find!


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## Pumpkin the robot (25 Nov 2014)

I have never found it uncomfortable on a bicycle, I have done plenty of 100 miles rides and a 200 as well. But after breaking my neck I have been warned about the consequences of landing on my head again. I think it is a lot less likely for me to put my head through a window again if I am laying down in a recumbent! I also find the advantage of 3 wheels appealing as the weather gets a little colder (although it is unlikely I will be going back to work for another 3 months or so) If I do like it, I may have to change my route to work a little as there is a little stretch of uphill that is very narrow, I would not want to hold people up too much on it, but it is easy to go an alternative route (and it is also where the woman pulled out in front of me, so I would not be passing that every day!)
Hpw much slower are they up hills? Is it just the extra weight or the riding position?


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## Ganymede (25 Nov 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> Hpw much slower are they up hills? Is it just the extra weight or the riding position?



I find a bit of both. But you may get a more detailed answer from someone who rides a more recent model, as mine is quite heavy. People do say that 'bents are speed machines but I think I'd need to get a new one to feel that! Or possibly put in a few more miles and toughen up a bit!
(NB the comfort thing is me with my bad shoulders and creaky neck which feels crunched on a normal bike.)


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## voyager (25 Nov 2014)

Hi Martin 

I have been using a trike now for a couple of years and at 63 I find they are slower by far than a conventional DF bike but the art is spinning the pedals rather than pushing . A lower gear than a DF helps ( I still ride DF bikes as well ) my Trike is so much more fun and is used as daily transport and short shopping trips to stop me sitting on my *** riding around in the car .
The bottom gear on my 20/20 homebuilt is 18" and with e-assist I can get up anything , I don't think the e-assist works efficiently at speeds under 10mph and most of the effort on steep hills is me but on the straight 15 /17 mph is good where I can only average 10-12 mph using pedal power.
Longer less steep hills I find the e-assist a blessing as I can cruse up those as quick as I can go on the straight . Downhill stretches the trike is stable and 25mph plus is no effort at all. my 20.20 e-trike has a 42" wheelbase and 31" track .and weighs 75lb all up with batteries etc

I am nowhere near fit and I need the exercise but I use the e-assist when the going gets tough as I have a few problems that flare up and limit the amount of pedalling I can do 

regards emma


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## starhawk (26 Nov 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> Hpw much slower are they up hills? Is it just the extra weight or the riding position?



From what I remember I used one gear lower than on a DF. According to some it seems slower and harder because you see the entire uphill strech, on a DF you only see the patch in front of you. 
I decided rather soon to get an e-bike kit, it solves the problem with slow boring uphills. Now I can go up hills at the same speed as on the flats. As a bonus you can use it at the traffic light, when it turns green you apply full power on the e-assist and grind on, even the cars can't keep up. The e-assist does a great job of taking away the inertia when you apply full power.
The riding position makes it possible to use you leg muscles full out, on a DF bike you have only your weight to play with so the riding position has an advantage. The "bent legs" is controversial subject, some say it exist others that it doesn't exist, personally I had no experience of an adjustment period.


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## Pumpkin the robot (27 Nov 2014)

I picked the windcheetah up today and cycled (is that the right description?) it home. Only 12 miles, but it was certainly different to using my two wheeled bike. Cars were more patient and sat behind me. I had people wind their windows down to talk to me at traffic lights and pedestrians immediately smile when they see you!
It took me a while to get used to the braking (it is pulling to the left a bit, I can adjust that though) The steering is very sensitive to input, but I was a lot better by the end of the ride. I found that if I span too fast it made the trike move around a lot, this may be more to do with my pedaling technique than anything else!


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## Scoosh (27 Nov 2014)

WOOHOO !!! 

Still grinning ?


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## Pumpkin the robot (27 Nov 2014)

I am!


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## Ganymede (27 Nov 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> I picked the windcheetah up today and cycled (is that the right description?) it home. Only 12 miles, but it was certainly different to using my two wheeled bike. Cars were more patient and sat behind me. I had people wind their windows down to talk to me at traffic lights and pedestrians immediately smile when they see you!
> It took me a while to get used to the braking (it is pulling to the left a bit, I can adjust that though) The steering is very sensitive to input, but I was a lot better by the end of the ride. I found that if I span too fast it made the trike move around a lot, this may be more to do with my pedaling technique than anything else!


That's fab!

I do think the pedalling takes a bit of adjustment (I hadn't thought about it before you mentioned it) because the pedals are closer to the steering axle (at least they are on my 'bent). I knew you'd get lots of attention from motorists, too! I get so many grins and nice comments when I'm out (which I don't get on my hybrid!).


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## Scoosh (27 Nov 2014)

It's very hard to be 'just part of the scenery' on a 'bent - you will get noticed and usually with smiles, thumbs-up, greetings etc. 

Going back to an upright, one becomes an 'anonymous cyclist' again.


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## starhawk (28 Nov 2014)

Cars can be nice at the point of silliness, I once got caught on a cycleroad with my frontwheels just behind a curb and my rearwheel i a sandheap, but the cars on a crossing road about 10 meters further on patiently waited for me to get loose and pass over the crossing!

About the Windcheeta how do you steer it? do you rotate the stalk or do you use the stalk it as a tiller?


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## BrevetRider (28 Nov 2014)

starhawk said:


> Cars can be nice at the point of silliness, I once got caught on a cycleroad with my frontwheels just behind a curb and my rearwheel i a sandheap, but the cars on a crossing road about 10 meters further on patiently waited for me to get loose and pass over the crossing!
> 
> About the Windcheeta how do you steer it? do you rotate the stalk or do you use the stalk it as a tiller?



Rotate.


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## Tigerbiten (28 Nov 2014)

Trike are sensitive to shifts in body weight but not how you would expect.
If you lean left, a trike will go right and vice versa.
It's how you steer them hand off.
Plus the steering get lighter at speed.
So it means that if you rock a bit due a too high a cadence at speed, the trike will try to snake.
It's one reason I tend not to go much over 100 rpm.
And I also tend to stop pedaling at just over 45 mph, which for me is just over 90 rpm .........


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## BlackPanther (7 Dec 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> I picked the windcheetah up today



Woo-Hoo. One of us, one of us.




Scoosh said:


> WOOHOO !!!
> 
> Still grinning ?



How long before you stop grinning from riding a trike? I ask because I've been riding/grinning for 4 years now.


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## Ganymede (7 Dec 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> Woo-Hoo. One of us, one of us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I rode 6 miles on my bent today and was grinning most of the way. It really is such fun, and a bit bonkers...


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## Ganymede (7 Dec 2014)

numbnuts said:


> I took mine out for a quick 4 miles in the dark just to see what it's like, it was OK


Numbnuts, what a cute avatar you have now!

My 'bent has dynamo lights and it's quite nice in the dark - the front light is rather low to the ground so it lights the road nicely but doesn't point a long way ahead. Which is fine by me as I don't hare along!


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## classic33 (8 Dec 2014)

numbnuts said:


> I took mine out for a quick 4 miles in the dark just to see what it's like, it was OK


"It was OK". Is that the best you can come up with?


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## numbnuts (8 Dec 2014)

classic33 said:


> "It was OK". Is that the best you can come up with?


I could have said my ride was enlighten


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## Pumpkin the robot (8 Dec 2014)

I am wondering if I need to move the seat forward a little. I have had to slow my cadence down as if I spin like I do on a bike, it moves the recumbent all over the road.


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## voyager (8 Dec 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> I am wondering if I need to move the seat forward a little. I have had to slow my cadence down as if I spin like I do on a bike, it moves the recumbent all over the road.



bum bounce is the main problem with a high cadence as the body moves and this is transmitted into the steering , once you can establish that this is the cause you can adjust to counteract it , I can get about 120 rpm without it happening but it has taken a while to adjust my position and reduce " bum bounce "



numbnuts said:


> I could have said my ride was enlighten



or Brilliant maybe 
* .............................. U ..... U ..... U...............................*

regards emma


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## byegad (8 Dec 2014)

Martin Archer said:


> I am wondering if I need to move the seat forward a little. I have had to slow my cadence down as if I spin like I do on a bike, it moves the recumbent all over the road.


That will settle down when you learn to relax from the hips upwards. What you have encountered is called pedal steer but really has the cause of too tense steering.


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## numbnuts (8 Dec 2014)

byegad said:


> That will settle down when you learn to relax from the hips upwards. What you have encountered is called pedal steer but really has the cause of too tense steering.


When I went out for my first ride I was gripping the bars really tightly and I was all over the show I think it was out fear, but when I started to relax and loosen my grip it all became fine.


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## Pumpkin the robot (8 Dec 2014)

It does it even when I am not holding the steering stem


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## Tigerbiten (8 Dec 2014)

You can steer a bent trike no handed.
BUT ...........
If you lean left, the trike will go right and vice versa.
So if you're rocking a little due to at a high cadence, your CoG moves and the trike snakes.
It's the main reason I don't like going over 100 rpm at speed.


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## ufkacbln (8 Dec 2014)

I like Neck rests on long rides, but they have issues if you use them when riding, the balance changes enough to introduce pedal steer


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## voyager (8 Dec 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> How long before you stop grinning from riding a trike? I ask because I've been riding/grinning for 4 years now.


The grin is part of the natural reaction to riding , cold and wet weather  will put a dampener on it for a short while or a snood can be used to mask it 
but if you enjoy it , why hide it?......


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## Tigerbiten (8 Dec 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> How long before you stop grinning from riding a trike? I ask because I've been riding/grinning for 4 years now.


I've been riding an ICE trike a year longer than you and I'm still grinning.
So you can make that a +5 year


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## byegad (9 Dec 2014)

Still here at 9years of recumbent riding, 2 on a bike and the rest on three wheels, thegrin got wider when I got the first trike!


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