# Hoo Peninsula Sunday 20th May



## martint235 (14 May 2012)

Well I've never been. Ever. As the current forecast for the weekend is acceptable, is anyone up for a ride out on the Hoo Peninsula? Grab some lunch, dip our toes in the Thames and then cycle back?

Edit: Right it's Sunday with a 8am start at HPC and 8.30-8.45 Greenwich pickup. Route is here.

What we actually do after lunch in Cooling is open but I've plotted a route down to Grain. The route back is a bit more direct than the route out but should be ok.

Riders

Martint235
Ianrauk
User10571 (Possible)
Mice
AnythingbutVanilla
Sittingduck
Paulrider
CrockofGold

Anymore??


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## AnythingButVanilla (14 May 2012)

This weekend coming? I'd be up for it as I really need to get the miles in before a 77 mile sportive in about four weeks time but I'm quite slow even on a road bike and wouldn't want to hold everyone else up.


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## User10571 (14 May 2012)

Watering holes on the peninsula are a bit thin on the ground.
I'd recommend the Horseshoe and Castle in Cooling for food. If there's more than say, eight of you give Kevin a ring on 0163 - 422 1691 to let him know your coming.
Don't expect to finish one of their baguettes on your own - sharing is the way to do it - very good vfm.
Best roads are on the north side via Cliffe, Cooling and High Halstow. Avoid the A228 like the plague. The roads from Allhallows-on-sea through to Stoke are ok but it all gets a bit uninspiring once you reach Hoo itself - fast roads but with good cycle track alongside.
The canal path between Gravesend and Higham (NCN1) is _just about_ rideable on 23s - it wasn't last year when they resurfaced it.
I may or may not join you.


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## Panter (14 May 2012)

Just subscribing to this...

I'm fairly sure we'll be away at the weekend but if not, would love to meet everyone en route


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## ianrauk (14 May 2012)

yup count me in


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## Sittingduck (14 May 2012)

I'm a maybe... depending on day, weather and the status of my legs!


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## martint235 (14 May 2012)

I was thinking of A206/A226 with a couple of deviations and into Grain on the A228. If this is as bad as User10571 suggests then I think we head to Cooling for lunch. I was hoping to reach Grain as the furthest point but getting there does seem to involve the A228. I shall give it more thought.

What's the preference so far Sat or Sun? I suppose the roads on Sunday will be quieter once we're out of Greenwich anyway.


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## User10571 (14 May 2012)

I normally use the FNRttC route to Whitstable to get out there - splitting off from the aforementioned in Lower Higham.
The A228 isn't a huge amount of fun mainly because it carries container traffic to and from Thamesport, in addition to which despite the presence of proximity cameras the local yoof use it as their racetrack. For the most part it's one lane in each direction with few opportunities for safe overtaking. Having said that... last year when I rode out that way with Mice, there was a fair bit of road building going on in the vicinity of Grain, so it may well be the case that there's now an 'old' road as well as the new one. Sundays and Bank Hols it's quieter because I think the port isn't operational.
Grain itself is worth a visit if only to find the beach and then ride a km or so along the sea wall to Grain Tower - which can be accessed by causeway at low tide - although I've never had the bottle to go out to the tower itself.

EDIT: Oh, and don't expect much in the way of chippies or corner shops - there are very few opportunities to spend your money towards the east end of the peninsula.

EDITx2: Have a 'walk-thru' on Google earth here to get an idea of what to expect on the A228: *http://tinyurl.com/bohbtk6*


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## martint235 (14 May 2012)

Cheers User10571. I'll draw up a route tonight and post it up.

And I think we'll go with Sunday for the lighter traffic generally. Could a moderator please add Sunday 20th May to the title please?


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## Mice (14 May 2012)

User10571's route is highly Micecommended! Quite a bit of it is alongside the Thames (where's that 50s Cafe, User10571?) and there are some great views across to Leigh on Sea (?) and Canvey Island. Lovely country lanes too. Please can I pencil my name down (providing you are not doing an 18mph rolling average!  )

Mice


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## ianrauk (14 May 2012)

I have added the date to the thread.

Is the route ok for 23's? or they gonna get ripped to shreds?
What time the off? 8 or 8.30am?


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## frank9755 (14 May 2012)

Can't make it, I'm afraid, but I lived in Cliffe Woods for a few years during early teens. I spent many a weekend cycling round the quiet roads between Cliffe, Cooling and High Halstow. I always had to get off and push on the last hill into HH.
Can't recommend any pubs, as I was too young!


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## martint235 (14 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> I have added the date to the thread.
> 
> Is the route ok for 23's? or they gonna get ripped to shreds?
> What time the off? 8 or 8.30am?


 I think a sociable 9am start from HPC. I'll be on Lelly so we're not going anywhere that's going to destroy 23s


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## martint235 (14 May 2012)

Mice said:


> (providing you are not doing an 18mph rolling average!  )


 In my defence, a. it was a really nice day for cycling yesterday. b. I was on my own. c. I had somewhere to go to (Maldon). To be honest I ended up arriving an hour early and went down to the Heybridge Basin for a bit of sunbathing!!

And of course you're welcome along Mice.


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## User10571 (14 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> ...... I'll be on Lelly so we're not going anywhere that's going to destroy 23s


 
In which case skip the canal path. I went down there reluctantly last weekend as the ride leader was taking the ride that way. It was better than I expected, and certainly an improvement on the appalling state it was in last year. However, when it came to the return trip, Ess and myself opted for the road. With good reason.

@Mice
The 50's cafe is The Promenade Cafe on Gordon Promenade in Gravesend.

FYI Mart, I went through there last Friday, the gents on the Prom is permanently shut now due to persistent vandalism. There's always the ladies.......


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## PaulRide (14 May 2012)

I'd be interested in tagging along for what looks like an agreeable Sunday ride.


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## martint235 (14 May 2012)

I'm now thinking of making this an 8.30 start from Cutty Sark Gardens in Greenwich. Is anyone upset by this and if so is it by it being earlier or from Greenwich? Earlier I can't really do anything about, if it's the Greenwich thing then I can arrange say an 8am HPC pickup and I'll lead the ride from there to the Cutty Sark Gardens.


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## ianrauk (14 May 2012)

make it easy Martin.
8am HPC... 8.30am-8.45am Greenwich.
Pick and choose your start point.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 May 2012)

What sort of rolling speed would you reckon on going at? I'm trying to settle into my new tourer in but, while it's a joy to ride, I find it takes me longer to complete any A to B journey. I'm guessing Greenwich-Hoo-Greenwich would come out at just under 80 miles. 

@User10571. I was wondering whether it was you when I came across Francis' ride report - well, ''stray Polish road demon by the name of User10571'' was a bit of a giveaway


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## User10571 (14 May 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> @User10571. I was wondering whether it was you when I came across Francis' ride report - well, ''stray Polish road demon by the name of User10571'' was a bit of a giveaway


 
Aside from one or two factual inaccuracies, it was I.
Greenwich>Cooling>Greenwich you're generally looking at not much more than 60 miles. Unless you choose to get particularly convoluted....
HPC and back, will give you another 20.
Just.


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## martint235 (16 May 2012)

First post edited to give time and route etc


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## Sittingduck (16 May 2012)

Hi Martin

I'm still a possible for this... will confirm nearer to Sunday. It's looking like a 100 miler, by the time I ride to the start/Greenwich and back home again and I'm doing a ride on Sat morning too, so I would say I'm 50/50 at best (haven't done a ton since last July). Also might not be able to drag myself out of bed at the crack of daw 2 weekend days running!

Cheers


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## martint235 (16 May 2012)

No probs Ant. I'll probably ring the pub on Saturday afternoon to let them know how many to expect.


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## topcat1 (16 May 2012)

Why are you going on the A228? Didn't User10571 say avoid?


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## martint235 (16 May 2012)

topcat1 said:


> Why are you going on the A228? Didn't User10571 say avoid?


 Cos I never listen to anyone. 

User10571 has kindly sent me a new route but I can't look at it at work. I'll post it up later and it does I believe avoid the A228.


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## Aperitif (16 May 2012)

topcat1 said:


> Why are you going on the A228? Didn't User10571 say avoid?


Why is that Dave - did you want it all to yourself?


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## topcat1 (16 May 2012)




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## martint235 (16 May 2012)

Ok updated route. Note we're not going further than the pub anymore but we will get to see the castle and church at Cooling. I've thrown in a little climb on the way back just to burn off lunch, it's nothing major just Bostall Hill 

Final confirmations if you're coming along by Saturday lunchtime please.


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 May 2012)

As I can't make Sunday but had the use of a car this afternoon, I just drove out and did a 30-odd mile loop around the area. It was all very quiet and pleasant on the Peninsula though I was only on the A288 for a few hundred yards before diverting off to St Mary Hoo (I only went there because it's such an odd name). Cooling Castle was still there a couple of hours ago! So were several million insects - it was definitely not a good idea to leave my glasses behind. Be warned or be swarmed!


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## wanda2010 (17 May 2012)

I'm a possible for this Martin. Will yay or nay by Saturday morning.


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## Trickedem (17 May 2012)

Martin, I would love to have joined as this is on my patch, but I am away. Horseshoe and Castle is a good recommendation and the advice to avoid the A289 and 228 is spot on. They are very fast curving roads and I avoid them at all costs. If you want to go a little bit further out. The Heron Trail is quite nice.
http://www.gps-routes.co.uk/routes/home.nsf/RoutesLinksCycle/heron-trail-cycle-route#
Here is an alternative route back if you want to go as far as Grain.
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1185116
Have a good one.


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

Cheers Tim. Shame you can't make it. I've also decided not to go as far out as Grain though.


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## Sittingduck (17 May 2012)

Martin

Not going be along for this one, sorry. Hope you all have a great ride though


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

Ok current list of riders:

Martint235
Ianrauk
User10571 (Possible)
Mice
AnythingbutVanilla
Paulrider
CrockofGold
Wanda2010 (maybe)

Weather forecast is currently for drizzle in the afternoon but I reckon I can handle drizzle.


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## rb58 (17 May 2012)

I'd like to have come along for this, but as I'm doing my first 400km audax starting Saturday morning, I shall probably be asleep in some bus shelter in the middle of newhere at the time. Have a good ride all.
Ross


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## AnythingButVanilla (17 May 2012)

I'm quite looking forward to this, especially since I've now seen that it's relatively flat


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## ianrauk (17 May 2012)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> I'm quite looking forward to this, especially since I've now seen that it's relatively flat


 

Yup, which means a nice rolling average of +20mph 

(only kidding folks)


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## AnythingButVanilla (17 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Yup, which means a nice rolling average of +20mph
> 
> (only kidding folks)


 
My computer tells me that my fastest time is 300mph. I don't think I'd achieve that even if I had a rocket strapped to my bike.


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> I'm quite looking forward to this, especially since I've now seen that it's relatively flat


It is fairly flat but a touch of warning for anyone that's not done it before, Bostall Hill can be a bit of a b***h and it's towards the end of the ride. Nothing to worry about just something to keep in mind


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## Mice (17 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Yup, which means a nice rolling average of +20mph
> 
> (only kidding folks)


 


I nearly splattered my tea over my keyboard! Some things arent funny......!! 

As long as your legs (messrs Martin235 and ianrauk) know this Sundays Ride to the Hoo is not one of your Speedy 100 mile rides for food mode.  I am really looking forward to it, but only if I am not holding you up.

Mice


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## Mice (17 May 2012)

AnythingButVanilla said:


> My computer tells me that my fastest time is 300mph. I don't think I'd achieve that even if I had a rocket strapped to my bike.


Please may I borrow your computer?! 

Mice


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

Given that it's flat and depending on the wind, you may go quicker than you'd expect but I'm not setting out with a quick ride in mind


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## Mice (17 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Given that it's flat and depending on the wind, you may go quicker than you'd expect but I'm not setting out with a quick ride in mind


 
<goes to print screen as evidence>

Of course I'll do my best not to hold you up. It's a great route.

Mice


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

Warning: BBC is predicting something that looks worse than drizzle


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

I got an email saying User10571 had posted but I assume he changed his mind! 

I've looked at XC Weather which is currently saying dryish till about 4pm with a northerly wind which shouldn't bother us too much. Weatherspark is saying drizzle at about 2pm and fairly cool again with a northerly.

As I've asked for confirmation from everyone by Sat lunchtime, I'll also confirm then but if the forecast doesn't worsen I'm happy to go. I may even do a recce on Saturday


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## User10571 (17 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> I got an email saying User10571 had posted but I assume he changed his mind!
> 
> .....


 
I did.

And then I changed my mind. Slagging off the Beeb wasn't going to help.....

That's allowed.

Isn't it?

Fingies crossed that weather behaves on Sunday.


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## martint235 (17 May 2012)

Oh is that's what it was about. The BBC do have a very pessimistic outlook for the weekend compared to everyone else.

Fingers and toes crossed.


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## User10571 (18 May 2012)

Sorry to say that I'm not going to be able to make this one Martin _et al_.

'Hope you have a good ride!


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## martint235 (18 May 2012)

That's a shame User10571. Hope you're doing something fun!!

Current list:

Martint235
Ianrauk
Mice
AnythingbutVanilla
Paulrider
CrockofGold
Wanda2010 (maybe)
I'm going to change it to an 8am start at Trafalgar Sq near the Lions at the south side. The road closures make it a pain getting from HPC. If anyone hasn't got my mobile number, please pm me.

I'm going to do a recce tomorrow and let the pub know we'll be there.


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## rb58 (18 May 2012)

Martin - Mrs rb58 is unwell, so I've pulled out of tomorrow's Audax. Which means I *might* be along for this, but I won't be able to confirm until late tomorrow if she starts to recover.


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## martint235 (18 May 2012)

rb58 said:


> Martin - Mrs rb58 is unwell, so I've pulled out of tomorrow's Audax. Which means I *might* be along for this, but I won't be able to confirm until late tomorrow if she starts to recover.


Ah. I'm seriously thinking of postponing it now. 2 out of the 3 sites I've checked are giving rain and a headwind on the way out which isn't good. I'll check the weather again in the morning but by the radar maps it's likely to get worse rather than better.

Hope Mrs RB recovers and feels better soon.


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

Sorry everyone but it's looking like we'd get wet so I'm postponing this ride. I'll try to arrange it again but June is looking very busy. Greenwich Cyclists sometimes do a ride out and if I see anything I'll post it up

Sorry!


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## User10571 (19 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Sorry everyone but it's looking like we'd get wet so I'm postponing this ride. I'll try to arrange it again but June is looking very busy. Greenwich Cyclists sometimes do a ride out and if I see anything I'll post it up
> 
> Sorry!


Martin, have you considered the forthcoming bank hols as a possible - given that London Thamesport is unlikely to be operational on those days....


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

I have. The Monday is a borderline possibility but I'm not sure. At midnight on the Tuesday I'm setting off for Nelson which is around a 250 miler so Tuesday will be spent sleeping, Monday I should probably be resting.


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## ianrauk (19 May 2012)

postponed.. bah.. bunch of wusses


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> postponed.. bah.. bunch of wusses


Well if you're not feeling too despondent after a drubbing from Bayern, you can let us know how wet you get!!!


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## PaulRide (19 May 2012)

Another time - I am slightly relieved, as it means I can lend support to family on a busy day and earn more brownie points for future deployment.


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

I've just been out on a recce. Once you're on Hoo it's really nice. The only problem at the moment is the flies. There are seriously a lot of them I wouldn't recommend breathing through your mouth too much.

The pub is really nice and friendly and as User10571 mentioned the baguettes are huge. £6.50 for steak and stilton mayo with shoestring fries!!


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## ianrauk (19 May 2012)

next weekend then?


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> next weekend then?


Nope next weekend I'm getting incredibly p*****d for my birthday


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## Aperitif (19 May 2012)

He's a bit like his football team, Ian - all show and no go...


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## martint235 (19 May 2012)

Aperitif said:


> He's a bit like his football team, Ian - all show and no go...


And you'll be on the FNRttC to Whitstable will you???


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## Blue Hills (20 May 2012)

mm

at the risk of being bah humbug, this is why I so rarely think of turning up on these things - four pages of maybe this, maybe that and then nothing.

bah humbug 

I've led rides through torrential rain - advertised so they happened (those tough nuts from the lcc borough groups) - one rather memorably to Brighton with a guy in a T shirt and flip-flops 

musing whether to rerun Chiddingly Mr Rauk


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## ianrauk (20 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> mm
> 
> at the risk of being bah humbug, this is why I so rarely think of turning up on these things - four pages of maybe this, maybe that and then nothing.
> 
> ...


 

Humbug away.. where was this blessed rain? No rain.. nope none, zero, zilch.....

Chiddingly would be nice Mr Hills.. though perhaps not for 2 of our esteemed boozing friends


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## potsy (20 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> mm
> 
> at the risk of being bah humbug, this is why I so rarely think of turning up on these things - four pages of maybe this, maybe that and then nothing.


Wouldn't happen on a northern ride, just saying


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## martint235 (20 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> mm
> 
> at the risk of being bah humbug, this is why I so rarely think of turning up on these things - four pages of maybe this, maybe that and then nothing.
> 
> ...


It was an idea. It didn't work out. It also didn't rain. 

Sorry but I've been on rides through torrential rain and much though I enjoy being on my bike I prefer being dry.

I went yesterday and it was fun. I will re-organise for another day. There will be no running of red lights and no browbeating people for not bringing food. Just saying.


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## Blue Hills (20 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> It There will be no running of red lights and no browbeating people for not bringing food. Just saying.


 
Do I know you Martin? Is this a reference to me? I would have PMed you but can't figure out how to do it anymore.


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## Blue Hills (20 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Chiddingly would be nice Mr Hills.. though perhaps not for 2 of our esteemed boozing friends


 
Will see if can fit something in (no I'm not starting a thread - if it's arranged it will happen/details fixed and posted/folk come or not - but anyone who posts three times a la "I'm talking to the cat about it"/ "will have to see if I can get a pass from the Mr/Mrs", "ooh - not sure about the latest NASA rolling five-minute weather forecast" will be left.).

Ah yes, our boozing/fine dining pals Mr Rauk - I heard on the grapevine about your trip westwards up the Thames a while back


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## martint235 (20 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> Do I know you Martin? Is this a reference to me? I would have PMed you but can't figure out how to do it anymore.


Sorry my post was probably unnecessarily antagonistic but I felt your post was unnecessary and condescending. I arranged the Hoo ride because I'd never been and thought some friends may like to join me. As I said, didn't work out, c'est la vie. Although I did visit Hoo alone yesterday.

Yes we have crossed paths. I've been on one ride led by you where, as I intimated, you as ride leader ran a red light at Deptford Creek. Sorry if I find this appalling. I was also belittled for not bringing food for what I considered a small ride to Brighton (I rode back). Perhaps Ianrauk will back up my riding ability, we'll see.


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## Aperitif (21 May 2012)

Martin, you had breakfast *and* a sandwich stop in last year's 250+/- miler in the pissing rain at night too, whilst giving your time to contribute to other's wellbeing. And you don't take food for Brighton? Distressing! I should give the bike away and try limbo dancing.
PS I set off for Hoo yesterday too. Got as far as Greenwich etc but I had consumed approx 15 pints earlier in the 24 hours, and didn't really fancy it much after the first 25 odd miles from NW. I was going to take a load of snaps. Lesser riders might not have appreciated the breeze - I just felt jaded and cold (story of my life). If I had made it, this thread would have been full of sky pictures!


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## Blue Hills (21 May 2012)

Hi Martin

Sorry if my initail post seemed a bit tough - in truth it was maybe caused more by stuff that happens a lot in a certain other place - endless ifs and maybes etc. My background is more the local lcc rides where folk plan a ride, and announce it and then. barring ice, go.

I very rarely run red lights - I think I maybe know the junction you mean and tend to think that it was pretty clear with good visibility early on a Saturday/Sunday morning. If not, well I was in the wrong.

As for the food, can't think why I would have suddenly made an issue of it - I have had a grumble once or twice with folk who brought nothing and then made the entire group stop while we went in search of food for them - one guy once turned up for a longish ride and hadn't even had breakfast. I've also been known to tut tut at folk who have turned up without water to save weight - a nice bod on here probably knows who that refers to.

all the best - I'd be interested in a PM from you with more clues as to your identity - have we met more than once or was that once enough


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## User10571 (21 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> mm
> 
> at the risk of being bah humbug, this is why I so rarely think


 
FTFY

Thanks for your much valued input


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## her_welshness (21 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Humbug away.. where was this blessed rain? No rain.. nope none, zero, zilch.....
> 
> Chiddingly would be nice Mr Hills.. though perhaps not for 2 of our esteemed boozing friends


 
Hmmm, we both Ian had a bitch about that ride afterwards, and also I remember the state that that poor Korean lad was in. Sorry Monsieur Hills.

This thread really raises issues about informal rides, doesn't it? You have people on here laughingly saying 'lets go super-speedy' which I do think make some folk think 'hang on, if they are going to do a fastish one then I won't bother'. Extremely offputting, especially for new cyclists. It was nice to see some reassurance from Martin afterwards that it was not going to be fast. The Hoo ride is one of my favourite rides and it is one to be _savoured_, an opportunity to see a bit of Kent not many people go to, and its perfectly easy to comfortably do 80 miles in a day as there are not too many hills.


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## ianrauk (21 May 2012)

her_welshness said:


> Hmmm, we both Ian had a bitch about that ride afterwards, and also I remember the state that that poor Korean lad was in. Sorry Monsieur Hills.
> 
> This thread really raises issues about informal rides, doesn't it? You have people on here laughingly saying 'lets go super-speedy' which I do think make some folk think 'hang on, if they are going to do a fastish one then I won't bother'. Extremely offputting, especially for new cyclists. It was nice to see some reassurance from Martin afterwards that it was not going to be fast. The Hoo ride is one of my favourite rides and it is one to be _savoured_, an opportunity to see a bit of Kent not many people go to, and its perfectly easy to comfortably do 80 miles in a day as there are not too many hills.


 

Indeed, I think that ride killed that poor little fellow. Did he ever join another ride? And who could forget the good Doctors deraillieur/Wheel coming together episode?

The Super Speedy thing. As far as I know there has never been a ride described as super speedy in informal rides, only Speedy... of which was a once a month ride set up for those that wanted to push themselves a little harder, faster & further (100 miles plus) rather then a days pootle. It made no bones as to what they were/are and at the end of the day these type of rides are certainly not for new/inexperienced cyclists.

The last thing we would have wanted is for someone to come along and find they are out of their depth. It's not fair on them and not fair on the ride.


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## ColinJ (21 May 2012)

potsy said:


> Wouldn't happen on a northern ride, just saying


TBF - we have postponed/cancelled one or two this year because of dire weather forecasts, and people who did venture out anyway confirmed that we were wise to do so! 

OTOH, we have also been out in dire weather a few times and survived.

No excuse this week over large areas of the UK - sunshine every day!


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## ianrauk (21 May 2012)

User13710 said:


> That happened to me soon after I started cycling slightly longer distances, when I was still riding my hybrid. It was with a local group and they soon left me behind, but none of them was brave (or kind) enough to actually say to me, look maybe this isn't the ride for you just yet. They did wait for me now and again, but with rather bad grace. It was a very dispiriting experience, and even though I could keep up with them easily now I wouldn't want to cycle with such an unfriendly lot.


 
As you know, we are not the type of people who would be so ungracious or friendly about something like that. We would change the ride to suit.




User13710 said:


> Maybe we should invent a CC speed scale: Pootle, Bimble, Touring, Brisk, Speedy, Superspeedy, Chaingang?


 
This is a jolly good idea


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## Sittingduck (21 May 2012)

User13710 said:


> Maybe we should invent a CC speed scale: Pootle, Bimble, Touring, Brisk, Speedy, Superspeedy, Chaingang?


 
That's a really good idea. Even going one step further, to advertise a predicted rolling avg!


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## her_welshness (21 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Indeed, I think that ride killed that poor little fellow. Did he ever join another ride? And who could forget the good Doctors deraillieur/Wheel coming together episode?
> 
> The Super Speedy thing. As far as I know there has never been a ride described as super speedy in informal rides, only Speedy... of which was a once a month ride set up for those that wanted to push themselves a little harder, faster & further (100 miles plus) rather then a days pootle. It made no bones as to what they were/are and at the end of the day these type of rides are certainly not for new/inexperienced cyclists.
> 
> The last thing we would have wanted is for someone to come along and find they are out of their depth. It's not fair on them and not fair on the ride.


 
No, that is fair enough. I am happy when rides are correctly advertised. My mate Ollie (from the Greenwich parish) does these 100 milers, which he advertises as FAST. Its upfront.

However, there are two main concerns I have:

1. The gentle joshing online that exists which can lead to confusion and miscommunication about what the ride poses for those in store. This then puts the fear into people who then seem disinclined to go. That's a shame.

2. Bullying on the ride itself. This has happened to myself and others and includes a variety of behaviours. Say you have a newish person in the group but is a well established cyclist and deliberately or not deliberately goes ahead of the Ride Leader. The Ride Leader feels obliged to up the pace. The ride spreads out and eventually people drop off the pace. They then feel they are holding up the ride. In this case its the fault of the leader who has not kept that person in check. I have been told (by a friend of mine) that when one lass dropped out on a ride (on an informal ride) then the super-speedy folk who had been pushing the pace said 'great - now we can go faster now she has gone'. I would have hoped that people on that ride would have challenged their attitude.

The CC speed rating sounds like a WIN User13710 - may it be part of our constitution?!


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## potsy (21 May 2012)

ColinJ said:


> TBF - we have postponed/cancelled one or two this year because of dire weather forecasts, and people who did venture out anyway confirmed that we were wise to do so!
> 
> OTOH, we have also been out in dire weather a few times and survived.
> 
> No excuse this week over large areas of the UK - sunshine every day!


Don't tell 'em that CJ, trying to keep up our tough northern reputation 
Saying that, you're not really northern are you? Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy


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## ianrauk (21 May 2012)

her_welshness said:


> 1. The gentle joshing online that exists which can lead to confusion and miscommunication about what the ride poses for those in store. This then puts the fear into people who then seem disinclined to go. That's a shame.
> 
> 2. Bullying on the ride itself. This has happened to myself and others and includes a variety of behaviours. Say you have a newish person in the group but is a well established cyclist and deliberately or not deliberately goes ahead of the Ride Leader. The Ride Leader feels obliged to up the pace. The ride spreads out and eventually people drop off the pace. They then feel they are holding up the ride. In this case its the fault of the leader who has not kept that person in check.* I have been told (by a friend of mine) that when one lass dropped out on a ride (on an informal ride) then the super-speedy folk who had been pushing the pace said 'great - now we can go faster now she has gone'. I would have hoped that people on that ride would have challenged their attitude.*
> 
> The CC speed rating sounds like a WIN User13710 - may it be part of our constitution?!


 
1: Yes I can see what you are getting at re the gentle joshing. But it is usually made very clear as to what is expected on rides and people only have to ask (and have done)

2: I was on the ride you are talking about, (It wasn't one of our Speedy Rides) and know all the people involved. I didn't hear about what was said until afterwards. You know me, you know I would have said something if I had heard something like that, especially as it was about someone I consider a good friend (and a brilliant cyclist to boot). But the ride continued as was and certainly no speedier then it had been.


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## ColinJ (21 May 2012)

potsy said:


> Don't tell 'em that CJ, trying to keep up our tough northern reputation
> Saying that, you're not really northern are you? Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy


Well, half my genes came from the Highlands of Scotland - that's pretty far north by UK standards! 


Sittingduck said:


> That's a really good idea. Even going one step further, to advertise a predicted rolling avg!


So what happens when somebody thinks that they can achieve that speed but starts to suffer on the ride, or there are mechanical problems which cause delays and then people put the hammer down to try to reach that average speed? Do you stay with the slow riders and grumble, or say 'tough' and dump them?

You either have to go at the speed of the slowest or you have to be prepared to drop people who can't keep up, but dropping people isn't what forum rides are about!

If I were fit enough to drop people and wanted a quick ride, I would cherry-pick quick riders and PM them to organise it privately, or better still - join a racing club, which after all is what they are for!


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## Aperitif (21 May 2012)

Too many categories can also lead to confusion. Pootle is what happens in a confined area where your ride to the meet is possibly more than the 'ride around'. AKA Sunday London Ride.
The moment a destination is mooted all sorts of factors come into play. Traditionally, clubs are/were 'local' organisations and drew their membership from like-minded souls of the locality. Obviously this means that start time and other transport logistics are minimised - naturally. The internet clubhouse doesn't have a location.
Then there is the speed aspect. Nothing wrong with being able to cycle competently at speed as part of a group, and sometimes on a ride of that nature it is easy. At others, difficult. Riders who do that don't necessarily want to spend their limited time away from the grindstone rolling around at what they might deem 'half-pace'. Fair enough.
All these things have been alluded to in the previous posts but Ian hit the nail on the head when he observes that a mismatch is unfair in both directions. Most people actually realise this, although some don't in my experience and just make life uncomfortable - for themselves and others.
Most of all, I don't think anyone wants to be elitist but check out club runs and see what they have to offer - to get some idea of the groups. Rimas has had some outings with the Paragon (I think?) and he didn't find that much fun! (And he's no slouch!)
2d worth. Hello her_leekness


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## her_welshness (21 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> 1: Yes I can see what you are getting at re the gentle joshing. But it is usually made very clear as to what is expected on rides and people only have to ask (and have done)
> 
> 2: I was on the ride you are talking about, (It wasn't one of our Speedy Rides) and know all the people involved. I didn't hear about what was said until afterwards. You know me, you know I would have said something if I had heard something like that, especially as it was about someone I consider a good friend (and a brilliant cyclist to boot). But the ride continued as was and certainly no speedier then it had been.


 
I understand what you are saying Ian. I hope that I am not being a dog with a bone about this - but it is a _perception_ thing. I care about how much it looks as well as what it is. I know that as someone who respects the ride and the ride leader that if you had heard anything that was untoward that you would have spoken out - I know how honest you are  .

There is also the attitude/behavioural antics of folk on ride. They simply cannot see the difference between a bimble or a brisk run. At the heart of it is utter selfishness and a failure to understand other people's abilities. This extends to the passive-aggressive person at the back who can keep up with the ride but will choose not do so.

Hello Martin, my little muse bouche


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## martint235 (21 May 2012)

Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.

I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.



potsy said:


> Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy


I'm not a pretend southern softy, I'm still as northern as the day I was born!!!


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## Sittingduck (21 May 2012)

ColinJ said:


> So what happens when somebody thinks that they can achieve that speed but starts to suffer on the ride, or there are mechanical problems which cause delays and then people put the hammer down to try to reach that average speed? Do you stay with the slow riders and grumble, or say 'tough' and dump them?
> 
> *You either have to go at the speed of the slowest or you have to be prepared to drop people who can't keep up, but dropping people isn't what forum rides are about!*


 
I don't recall suggesting it was... Just that giving folk an idea of the anticipated speed might be helpful that's all.


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## User10571 (21 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.
> 
> I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.


 
It'll be a shame if that happens, Martin.
Reading this makes me realise how a thread like this can bimble along (Sorry, I'm unsure of the rolling average of bimble) quite nicely, with people bantering as much as they would in RL, and yet it's so easily derailed by an unassociated individual walking past the room and tossing in a grenade before walking away.

Fragile.

Innit?


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## Aperitif (21 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.
> 
> I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.
> 
> ...


You'll laugh! I think you have had a 'surprise response' to your innocent little thread (my posts excluded of course because you know I don't mean any of it, you tart  )

Actually, SoftM, was that 'wheat beer shandy' you were drinking the other Christmas...best not tell any of your pie-fancying mates like potsy - he'll only want one.

Sometimes people like to ride slower, quietly, sometimes quickly. I think I prefer the ride, stop for fuel, ride, stop, ride etc - with maybe only one 'longer' break if necessary. Sometimes it is chit-chat, sometimes not, and no ride can accomodate everyone's foibles...(nice foibles you have, Anthony!)


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## her_welshness (21 May 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> I don't recall suggesting it was... Just that giving folk an idea of the anticipated speed might be helpful that's all.


 
I think both your points were really good. I know they sometimes do an average speed on some of the advertised LCC rides. As we all know with mechanicals and other issues most folk are happy to wait. As ColinJ points out, some can start the ride thinking that its within their means. Bloody hell, have been in that situation. But then half the ride bailed so I didn't feel so bad then.


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## martint235 (21 May 2012)

It is a shame but life is so much easier if I say "User10571/Ian, do you fancy riding out to Cooling for a spot of lunch". All parties know what to expect and I think we'd have a good time


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## User10571 (21 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> It is a shame but life is so much easier if I say "User10571/Ian, do you fancy riding out to Cooling for a spot of lunch". All parties know what to expect and I think we'd have a good time


I know totally where you're coming from M. 
As an (not entirely) aside, there is a dearth of good ride leaders - I hear this often lamented by the local LCC groups.


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## ColinJ (21 May 2012)

her_welshness said:


> There is also the attitude/behavioural antics of folk on ride. They simply cannot see the difference between a bimble or a brisk run. At the heart of it is utter selfishness and a failure to understand other people's abilities. *This extends to the passive-aggressive person at the back who can keep up with the ride but will choose not do so*.


Ha - _I had the king of them_! Not a forum member, just a local person I know. I got him into cycling and nursed him along without ever complaining about his initial slow speed, but the fitter he got, the slower he insisted on riding. 

On one ride, I'd told him that the forecast was bad for later in the afternoon but we had at least 3 hours to do the planned 20 miles and still beat the storm. We set off from Hebden Bridge on the A646 towards Todmorden. It is pretty much flat apart from a few minor lumps. I can walk it in an hour, but he decided to take 1 hour and 5 minutes to ride it! It's not a scenic route, it is a busy A-road, so it wasn't a case of enjoying the scenery. he was just playing silly buggers. I was getting really annoyed by the time we finally arrived in Todmorden and asked him why he was riding so slowly. He replied _"No f***er tells me how fast to ride"_! Given that only _f***er_ on the ride apart from him was me, I didn't exactly have to work out who he was talking about! I should have left him there and then but I bit my lip and we continued on our way. The inevitable happened and we got caught in the storm, 10 miles from home ...

Next ride, we did my 'Trauma of Trawden' loop. Now that one is a hilly 29 miles, but he'd ridden it with me in 5 hours so I knew what speed he could manage. (I ride it in about 2 hours when fit or about 3 - 3.5 hours these days.) It was winter and we had 6 hours of daylight, with snow forecast after sunset. Before we set off, I told him that we needed to be back in less than 6 hours and I knew he could do it, because it took us 5 hours the last time we'd tackled it. 7 hours later, we were out on the moors, still 10 miles from home, in the dark, temperatures plummeting and the snow starting! I pleaded with him to get a move on but he just stared at his front hub and plodded on. I asked if he was tired and he simply said _"Nope"_ ...

I finally lost my temper on a third dismal trudge. We have a 4.5 mile climb from Hebden Bridge towards Haworth. For a novice cyclist, it is a significant challenge, but I'd been riding up the climb with him since the summer and he had cracked it after 3 or 4 attempts. We'd got his time down below the hour and he was comfortable with that. So there we were on another winter ride. It was bitterly cold, with freezing mist, and an easterly wind bringing a deep Siberian chill. I'd emphasised before we set off that we needed to ride at a steady rate to keep warm. We didn't need to bust a gut, but no more messing about - keep moving! So of course, the inevitable happened ... Hypothermia was setting in as I descended for the 3rd or 4th time to see where the hell he was. I'd done my very best not to drop him, but somehow, even riding at 3 mph, I kept doing it. One second I'd be with him, the next, he was back in the mist somewhere. He _chose_ to do it. Finally, I u-turned in the road, and descended flat out, shot past him at over 40 mph and went home to thaw in front of the fire. I was still shivering several hours later. He sent a message to me through a mutual friend that if I "made a grovelling apology", then he might be prepared to talk to me again. _I haven't bothered to!_


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## potsy (21 May 2012)

Blimey Colin, that is unbelievable  
Wasn't bfb was it?


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## ColinJ (21 May 2012)

potsy said:


> Blimey Colin, that is unbelievable
> Wasn't bfb was it?


Yes - it _was_ unbelievable, at least, I could hardly believe what the guy was doing. Talk about mind games ... I'm a mild-mannered person but there is a limit and he managed to smash his way right through it!

No - it _wasn't_ bfb!


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## dellzeqq (21 May 2012)

it's a funny thing - but if you organise a ride you will get complaints. And, sometimes the complaints are justified, in the sense that they make you think about what you're doing. Sometimes the complaints are not justified in the sense that no ride will cater for every rider on every ride, and that there's going to have to be some compromises. The thing to do is to work out which is which, and do your best next time round.


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## User10571 (21 May 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> it's a funny thing - but if you organise a ride you will get complaints. And, sometimes the complaints are justified, in the sense that they make you think about what you're doing. Sometimes the complaints are not justified in the sense that no ride will cater for every rider on every ride, and that there's going to have to be some compromises. The thing to do is to work out which is which, and do your best next time round.


Heh!
Choice words.


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## User10571 (21 May 2012)

User13710 said:


> It's also true that if you organise a ride you will get lots of thanks from grateful riders, and I think those probably always outweigh the complaints


Ummm... it's actually just exactly that, which does it for me.


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## Flying Dodo (21 May 2012)

martint235 said:


> Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.
> 
> I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.


 
I think the main issue is probably the difficulty in managing everyone's expectations. On the rides I do, I try now to state an expected moving average speed and/or general pace. Several years ago I didn't consider that aspect, and often had endless emails from new cyclists not sure if they were up to the distance, and so on the day, ended up effectively running 2 rides in 1. I've also had super speedy club riders (no-one here) zooming off all the time and making less speedy riders feel a bit out of place.

The trick is to be clear up front on the pace expected. As Ian says, for the Speedy Rides for Food, the topic makes clear they've not for beginners. When I did the Round the M25 ride 2 years ago, I made it quite clear it was a difficult ride against the clock, and turned away several people I didn't know, as I wasn't aware of what their riding capabilities were, and didn't want to slow things up for everyone else.

Another aspect is that with more riders turning up for a ride, there are more things to consider in respect of the rolling pace and the fact that you're more likely to get a wider range of abilities.

If I had more time, I'd organise more rides, so please continue to put forward suggestions for open rides.


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## her_welshness (21 May 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Ha - _I had the king of them_! Not a forum member, just a local person I know. I got him into cycling and nursed him along without ever complaining about his initial slow speed, but the fitter he got, the slower he insisted on riding.
> 
> On one ride, I'd told him that the forecast was bad for later in the afternoon but we had at least 3 hours to do the planned 20 miles and still beat the storm. We set off from Hebden Bridge on the A646 towards Todmorden. It is pretty much flat apart from a few minor lumps. I can walk it in an hour, but he decided to take 1 hour and 5 minutes to ride it! It's not a scenic route, it is a busy A-road, so it wasn't a case of enjoying the scenery. he was just playing silly buggers. I was getting really annoyed by the time we finally arrived in Todmorden and asked him why he was riding so slowly. He replied _"No f***er tells me how fast to ride"_! Given that only _f***er_ on the ride apart from him was me, I didn't exactly have to work out who he was talking about! I should have left him there and then but I bit my lip and we continued on our way. The inevitable happened and we got caught in the storm, 10 miles from home ...
> 
> ...


 Frack me - that sounds horrific. All I can say is that you have the patience of Job, ColinJ.

We had the queen of those on some of our rides. A great lass, but we did end up calling her 'Slow ***'. Ian will know her. She could do 10 mph on the flat, and 10 mph on the hills. One of the most memorable ones was in Hertfordshire, dedicated to 'A Pilgrims Progress'. Bermondsey Bill was leading it. Cracking route except Person Slow was not even bothering to keep up. We pulled into the cafe stop. Bermondsey Bill takes me aside 'You have to tell her to up her pace'. I replied 'It is your ride, you tell her'. We lost her once or twice but eventually she would just turn up with a placid smile on her face! Just one of these people who will not be a part of the group, and will not respond with any positivity to any kind of authority, albeit a laid back ride leader.


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## ColinJ (21 May 2012)

User13710 said:


> It's also true that if you organise a ride you will get lots of thanks from grateful riders, and I think those probably always outweigh the complaints


CC riders are always very nice about my rides. If there is any muttering about my slowness, then at least they have the decency to do it before I catch up! I do often get teased about it here on the forum afterwards though ...


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## Blue Hills (22 May 2012)

User10571 said:


> I know totally where you're coming from M.
> As an (not entirely) aside, there is a dearth of good ride leaders - I hear this often lamented by the local LCC groups.


Tis true, tends to be the same folk again and again - reccying the routes, checking lunch stops which the field can hit in the lunch window (this is where issues with different paces can come into play), ensuring that folk get back OK by a reasonable time, and committing themselves to being there at the start at least come rain or shine. In my view, if that commitment from the leader isn't there, folk never quite believe it will happen and rides never get popular.

If the weather is truly appalling and shows little sign of getting any better, nothing to stop a friendly adult discussion about what to do, but I feel that the leader shouldn't, er, take the lead in saying "sod it, it's shoot weather - I wanna go home". This happened once when me and hwelshness turned up at Otford - as the only two who had turned up we decided to forget it. Needs more folk who regularly go on rides to volunteer to lead some themselves. Not easy leading rides but I remember very few, thankfully, which were a real problem. I can count on the fingers of far less than one hand folks I'd never want to see again - especially as this number reduced by one after herwelshness had been taken off 

Ah, Ian, that guy - nice chap but I never saw him again - kind of funny in a way - got to laugh. He had dropped out of a ride some months before with another leader and turned up all keen at Tonbridge with a new bike and telling us about some training he'd been doing. The ride was rerun a year or so later and went very well - I have a collection of appreciative quotes - none of them extracted with a chain whip.

Hi User10571ikins - if that reference to throwing a bomb and walking away was aimed at me, I didn't mean it that way - it just seemed wise to let the thread calm down - I've returned to see that we are up to rather more pages and the temperature seems to have lowered. Thanks for your help the other day.

SE London lcc rides meet still takes place last Wednesday of every month at the Dog and Bell, Prince Street Deptford - leaders will be made more than welcome I'm sure for rides of all lengths and descriptions. Fair to say I think that none of them are macho/fast.

Ride on chaps, have fun, best regards to all on the thread - I'd better sod off now before I lose the thread.


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## dellzeqq (22 May 2012)

User13710 said:


> It's also true that if you organise a ride you will get lots of thanks from grateful riders, and I think those probably always outweigh the complaints


The ride organisation is really not a lot different from killing thirty contractors at a site meeting with facts (and, trust me on this, the pleasure that affords one is squelchingly splendiferous). It is different in that it's grounded in my great loves, but, at root I do it because it pleases me to sort things out. The complaints, and the thanks are grist to the mill. What really, really matters is the friends you make, and in that respect I count myself the luckiest person alive - my blessings are far, far beyond counting.


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