# Bikes Direct



## Rockn Robin (18 Oct 2018)

I'm wondering how they can sell bikes so inexpensive. Has anyone had dealings with them? Perhaps they don't deliver overseas. Not sure. But for an inexpensive ride about bike, especially on my limited budget, this seems like a good one for $349.95

Any thoughts?

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington3-xv.htm#gsize








View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbmG-2TTGP0&t=18s


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## Cycleops (18 Oct 2018)

As long as you don't mind the low end Shimano components it looks like reasonable value.


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## Sixmile (18 Oct 2018)

My instant thought is that with a limited budget, I'd rather buy a better bike second hand than a poor quality bike new.


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## Rockn Robin (18 Oct 2018)

Cycleops said:


> As long as you don't mind the low end Shimano components it looks like reasonable value.



That’s what I thought. Not too concerned about that. As long as I can enjoy riding a few miles at a time. I don’t go far anyway for now as it will take awhile to get my back better.


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## Salar (18 Oct 2018)

I quite like the look of these. Don't know anything about the frame though but at £250.00?

http://www.chelseabikes.co.uk/chelsea/chelsea-club/chelsea-club/prod_1226.html?catId=211


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## DCLane (18 Oct 2018)

Salar said:


> I quite like the look of these. Don't know anything about the frame though but at £250.00?
> 
> http://www.chelseabikes.co.uk/chelsea/chelsea-club/chelsea-club/prod_1226.html?catId=211



They're the same spec as any pre-90's bike. Personally I'd buy an immaculate 531-framed one for £100-150 which will last longer and keep the change.


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## Drago (18 Oct 2018)

Plain gauge alloy, low line components. It's probably nicer that walking, but unlikely to bring a great deal of joy.


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## Rockn Robin (18 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> Plain gauge alloy, low line components. It's probably nicer that walking, but unlikely to bring a great deal of joy.



You could be right there. My budget is very low. Got bills up the ying yang. Nothing in local shops below 1k, and used bikes I’ve seen up till now are horrible. If I can find a decent used one with good components that with a little elbo grease can be brought up to snuff, I’m not overly concerned about the condition of the frame if it’s of quality. I can rectify the frame with a good paint job.


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## mustang1 (18 Oct 2018)

Aren't these the guys who make Kilo TT? I heard that was a good-looking bike if looking for cheap. I thought think they're a north American outfit. Might be better just to go to Halfords or Decathlon if in UK .


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## vickster (18 Oct 2018)

mustang1 said:


> Aren't these the guys who make Kilo TT? I heard that was a good-looking bike if looking for cheap. I thought think they're a north American outfit. Might be better just to go to Halfords or Decathlon if in UK .


OP is in Arizona


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## Cycleops (18 Oct 2018)

Can't you get anything on Craigslist? 

Check out RJ the bike guy on YouTube, he's found some real gems in thrift shops and yard sales. I think you'll be better off checking out these options than buying new.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Oct 2018)

Sixmile said:


> My instant thought is that with a limited budget, I'd rather buy a better bike second hand than a poor quality bike new.



I'd rather buy a bike secondhand regardless, because used is always much better value, so long as you don't pay inflated prices. There's always stuff available if you keep your eyes open and ask around.


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## Grant Fondo (18 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> I'm wondering how they can sell bikes so inexpensive. Has anyone had dealings with them? Perhaps they don't deliver overseas. Not sure. But for an inexpensive ride about bike, especially on my limited budget, this seems like a good one for $349.95
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> ...



Pick up a well looked after 'made in the USA' Cannondale from the 90s.. its the coolest thing i have ever owned.


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## HLaB (18 Oct 2018)

You have to be careful buying a bike that's too cheap but I have a BTwin Triban 500 which is similar but with carbon fork (circa $450) and its a great bike for the money and the BTwin steel fork model like the Windsor is $25 dollars cheaper ($325). So there are genuine bargains out there but I doubt you get BTwin in the States.

You might be able to get something better 2nd hand but I didn't want to get anything too nickable.


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## Drago (18 Oct 2018)

The Btwin is hydroformed, double butted, a world away from the Wellington.


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## Spoons47 (18 Oct 2018)

Recently bought this for £240. It’s now my pride and joy.


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## Drago (18 Oct 2018)

Felt. Yum yum.


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## Grant Fondo (18 Oct 2018)

My experience of buying a similar 'generic' mail order bike nearly ended in tragedy when the headset disintegrated bombing down Ventnor Hill on the Isle of Wight... wouldn't touch one after that. Nasty things.


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## HLaB (18 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> The Btwin is hydroformed, double butted, a world away from the Wellington.


The Wellington claims to have a Kinesis frame and Kinesis claim to be the first that put hydroforming into mass production :-/


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## Grant Fondo (18 Oct 2018)

Spoons47 said:


> View attachment 434509
> Recently bought this for £240. It’s now my pride and joy.


I flogged a Ghost 4900 on eBay last year for £270. ... Tiagra, Easton wheels etc mint condition.. please don't buy the Welly.


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## Drago (18 Oct 2018)

It may well have a Kinesis frame, albeit one from their Bargain Basement Pocket Momey Value range.


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Pick up a well looked after 'made in the USA' Cannondale from the 90s.. its the coolest thing i have ever owned.



Indeed, if I can find one. A lot of times you find a nice bike and it’s not your size. A couple of months ago I saw a nice Masi for sale, butvthe frame was for a very tall person. If I was riding that and slipped off the saddle, I would be singing saprano.


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> The Btwin is hydroformed, double butted, a world away from the Wellington.



What is a Btwin?


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## xzenonuk (19 Oct 2018)

decathlon is a large european sports shop chain and they make the btwin brand, sweet bikes for the money


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

xzenonuk said:


> decathlon is a large european sports shop chain and they make the btwin brand, sweet bikes for the money



Here, the Windsor sold by Bikes Direct ships free in the US. I’m sure Decathlon shipping to the US is not cheap, plus anything over a certain amount of money will have duty and customs fees, some, of which, is thanks to that incredible stupid Trump.


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## EltonFrog (19 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Here, the Windsor sold by Bikes Direct ships free in the US. I’m sure Decathlon shipping to the US is not cheap, plus anything over a certain amount of money will have duty and customs fees, some, of which, is thanks to that incredible stupid Trump.



Decathlon have at least on branch in the USA , San Francisco. They do mail order. Have a google.


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## Drago (19 Oct 2018)

He could get the bus over and ride the bike home!


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## Salar (19 Oct 2018)

DCLane said:


> They're the same spec as any pre-90's bike. Personally I'd buy an immaculate 531-framed one for £100-150 which will last longer and keep the change.



I agree, I like the look of it, but I wouldn't buy one. Most of my bikes are used which I upgrade or tinker with.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Oct 2018)

Wellington would be okay for a starter, but the components are old style and heavy, so that stem, BB, and crankset may have to go. Most of the BD bikes are made pretty well as far as the frame goes. My main attraction with this bike is brifters, but a good used bike would not cost as much, would not be quite as low spec, and probably serve you better in the long run. With proper maintenance and a good bike to start with, a bicycle can last indefinitely.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Oct 2018)

Drago said:


> He could get the bus over and ride the bike home!


Or the train, and bring the bike back.


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## si_c (19 Oct 2018)

That bike looks like a good deal for the money. Yes, it'll be a little heavier than a more expensive bike, but it's perfectly serviceable. Having said that, you can get a lot more for your money by going second hand.

For example this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123436107777


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## Globalti (19 Oct 2018)

BTwin bikes look like exceptional value and they do ride nicely but the saving is made on the wheels, which are not good quality. Last time I asked, they were selling front wheels for £25.00.


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## Cycleops (19 Oct 2018)

Here's the link for Decathlon San Francisco;
Decathlon

735 Market St, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA
+1 415-408-5494 https://g.co/kgs/dDUWVu


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> Decathlon have at least on branch in the USA , San Francisco. They do mail order. Have a google.



I'll have a butchers.


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

I just visited Decathlon to look for the BTwin. I found only three road bikes, one of which was a woman's model. I think the one that is listed for $349 is what some were referring to. Although it's a great value, it doesn't represent the classic style I have loved over the years. For me, I don't really like the slopping top tube. Like I had mentioned before, it looks like a mountain bike that's been on a diet. No offense to anyone, mind you. 

This, I believe is the model some were mentioning for $349:







This one I like, but much more deniro than I can afford. It has a slighted slopped, but horizontal top tube. Selling for $1169:


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## Cycleops (19 Oct 2018)

If you can manage to drop your sloping top tube prejudice I think you'll be more than please with the $349 B'twin. Better spec than your linked Windsor plus you get a lifetime frame warranty, so you get quite a bit better in spite of its regal sounding name!
Give it some thought.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Oct 2018)

Kent Saber at Wal Mart looks quite similar, I'll try and get a closer look.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> Kent Saber at Wal Mart looks quite similar, I'll try and get a closer look.


Except for twist shifters and probably a split handle bar to accommodate.


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

Cycleops said:


> If you can manage to drop your sloping top tube prejudice I think you'll be more than please with the $349 B'twin. Better spec than your linked Windsor plus you get a lifetime frame warranty, so you get quite a bit better in spite of its regal sounding name!
> Give it some thought.



Well, I will have to wait and see if my mind changes in that regard. But, I doubt it. HAHAHA!!


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> Kent Saber at Wal Mart looks quite similar, I'll try and get a closer look.



Here you go.






To be quite honest, I know many will poo poo a bike like this, but I think one should be grateful that a company in Asia is producing such a product. It gives those less fortune $$ wise a chance to be able to purchase a bike that looks nice. One would have to admit that it does look rather sharp. It get's those who are less fortunate in life on the saddle. The benefits of riding out-way the $$ outlay. I wouldn't be opposed to owning it. Sure it's not going to shift smooth and precise as a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma, but to someone out there with little to no $$, that will be their Pinarello. WalMart, well I'll be. I'll head out to my local WalMart and have a butchers. HAHAHAHA!!




There is a local bike shop here that sells a rather inexpensive road bike called GMC Denali. I went over to see it, and I have to say it's not all that bad. Although the decals were put on rather shoddy.


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## cyberknight (19 Oct 2018)

Out of all the bikes the OP has mentioned i got to be honest the wellington looks the best deal as the others in budget have shifters mounted on the bar rather than STI units


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

cyberknight said:


> Out of all the bikes the OP has mentioned i got to be honest the wellington looks the best deal as the others in budget have shifters mounted on the bar rather than STI units



I do agree, but it’s nice that others have offered comparisons. I’m leaning towards the Wellington that I posted.


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## si_c (19 Oct 2018)

I've learnt that you should get the bike that makes you happy. Everyone has a different taste.


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## Rockn Robin (19 Oct 2018)

si_c said:


> I've learnt that you should get the bike that makes you happy. Everyone has a different taste.



Totally agree!


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## Spoons47 (19 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Totally agree!


+1


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

About 150.00 USD difference twixt that Wellington and the Genesis Saber, that would go towards some brifters, maybe some Microshift ones, and new cranks, and a nicer rear derailleur, and a new stem. If you have a bike co-op near you, they could help with that. You'll want new bars as well, as the GMC Denali, a noted cheap but acceptable bike, quite popular with the commuting crowd, also has twist shifters, and probably still a two-piece handlebar. I think on BF some years ago there was a whole thread on upgrading and praising the Denali. Most of those bikes need to have the cranks replaced, as they are heavy, as well as the stem. Many Wal-Mart bikes are specced with very heavy components. Sometimes those cranks weigh quite a bit, more than if you replaced the aluminum frame with quality steel. I had one in the co-op the other day that felt like it weighed about six pounds. Low grade steel, about one step above cast-iron quality.
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cyc...y-gmc-denali-road-bike-what-do-you-think.html


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## Rockn Robin (20 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> About 150.00 USD difference twixt that Wellington and the Genesis Saber, that would go towards some brifters, maybe some Microshift ones, and new cranks, and a nicer rear derailleur, and a new stem. If you have a bike co-op near you, they could help with that. You'll want new bars as well, as the GMC Denali, a noted cheap but acceptable bike, quite popular with the commuting crowd, also has twist shifters, and probably still a two-piece handlebar. I think on BF some years ago there was a whole thread on upgrading and praising the Denali. Most of those bikes need to have the cranks replaced, as they are heavy, as well as the stem. Many Wal-Mart bikes are specced with very heavy components. Sometimes those cranks weigh quite a bit, more than if you replaced the aluminum frame with quality steel. I had one in the co-op the other day that felt like it weighed about six pounds. Low grade steel, about one step above cast-iron quality.
> https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cyc...y-gmc-denali-road-bike-what-do-you-think.html



I like the looks of the Denali, but there’s only one available and the dealer is not ordering more. Unfortunately the decals were put on so shoddy. The individual that put them on must have been drunk.


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

A fellow at work just removed his decals, looks okay without. What's on your local Craigslist? I have one currently near me for 60.00, looks like it has never been ridden.


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

And for about the same coin, or a bit more, you could buy an old bike with better lineage, may be worth something after you fix it up. At a used furniture place the other day, I bought a used Corso, an Italian bike from a big store in New York, a rebranded basic Italian make, with Campy and Italian groupset, for small coin, because" It aint a good bike, it don't have a kickstand..."


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## Rockn Robin (20 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> A fellow at work just removed his decals, looks okay without. What's on your local Craigslist? I have one currently near me for 60.00, looks like it has never been ridden.


 As far as a good condition classic, not much. Well, I'll take that back. I have seen a few, but not my size. One I saw that was really nice looking was for someone very tall. 

The guy at work who removed his decals, I guess there wasn't a clear coat finish on it then.


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## Rockn Robin (20 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> And for about the same coin, or a bit more, you could buy an old bike with better lineage, may be worth something after you fix it up. At a used furniture place the other day, I bought a used Corso, an Italian bike from a big store in New York, a rebranded basic Italian make, with Campy and Italian groupset, for small coin, because" It aint a good bike, it don't have a kickstand..."



You were at the right place at the right time. He obviously didn't realize what a good bike it was if he sold it because it didn't have a kickstand. I would have got that bike out of the store so fast before he had time to change his mind. Good deal.


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> As far as a good condition classic, not much. Well, I'll take that back. I have seen a few, but not my size. One I saw that was really nice looking was for someone very tall.
> 
> The guy at work who removed his decals, I guess there wasn't a clear coat finish on it then.


Decals may be vinyl, applied over clear coat.


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> You were at the right place at the right time. He obviously didn't realize what a good bike it was if he sold it because it didn't have a kickstand. I would have got that bike out of the store so fast before he had time to change his mind. Good deal.


Old bikes are like antiques. If you see it, buy it, because you may not see it again. The Corso was imported by Sal Corso, who ran Stuyvesant Bikes in New York City, who also imported Atala and Bottechia, and also bought lesser frames from Cesare Rizzato and Carnielli to fill in the mid range bikes.


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## Rockn Robin (20 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Here you go.
> 
> View attachment 434579
> 
> ...



Replying to my own post. 

I not long came in from WalMart, and they had one Genesis in stock, and just my size too. Put together by the three Stooges most likely. Nothing aligned. Both saddle and handlebars twisted. But, for $179, not bad at all. Shimano components, twist shifters, but the wheels, oh the wheels. Two nice wobblies, HAHAHA. First thing is to straighten out the bars and saddle and have the wheels trued. I will say, for the money it wasn’t a bad looking bike at all.


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2018)

Well, the frame, anyway. The saddle is a good call for replacement, and when you want to go faster, some wheels would be a good place to start. Along with the aforementioned handlebars and shifters, as the twist shifters won't go on non-split handlebars, and split handlebars are a bit of a no-go.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> Well, the frame, anyway. The saddle is a good call for replacement, and when you want to go faster, some wheels would be a good place to start. Along with the aforementioned handlebars and shifters, as the twist shifters won't go on non-split handlebars, and split handlebars are a bit of a no-go.



As I looked at the bike, as nice as it appeared, I know I would be needing to swap out components, especially the wheels. They looked a bit Mickey Mouse. The frame, I thought was quite nice, something perhaps worth working around.


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> I know I would be needing to swap out components, especially the wheels. They looked a bit Mickey Mouse.



I've never got this thing why cyclists want to keep changing wheelsets. In some cases it seems to reach a level of obsession! So long as they are reasonably round and reasonably true, why do they need replacement? I've only ever swapped wheels as a quick fix where the original need a lot of messing with to get it true, never because the wheels were only budget items.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've never got this thing why cyclists want to keep changing wheelsets. In some cases it seems to reach a level of obsession! So long as they are reasonably round and reasonably true, why do they need replacement? I've only ever swapped wheels as a quick fix where the original need a lot of messing with to get it true, never because the wheels were only budget items.



On a bike that costs so little, the wheels are of concern. Would not such a cheep wheel be trusted at high speed? I’m no expert when it comes to this, but I feel that when I’m at fast speed, my life is dependent on that which keeps me up. Cheaper wheels, means to me, cheap materials. Would that not be true? Just wondering. Perhaps you might shed some light on this.


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Oct 2018)

So long as a wheel has a sensible number of spokes fitted (32+ front or 36+ rear) I would not be concerned about using budget wheels. Even cheap ones are good and strong if they have plenty of spokes in them and they are tensioned and not slack. The ones I would avoid like the plague regardless of claimed quality are those where the maker has tried to pander to weight-obsessed roadies by cutting down the spoke count to a stupidly low number, or oddball designs where the spokes are unevenly spaced around the rim in clusters rather than being equidistant from each other. Wheel failure is highly unlikely without spoke failures occurring first, and a single spoke failure in a rim with a high spoke count is not generally going to do anything apart from cause a slight out of true problem. 
My frontline hybrid bike, that does the majority of my road miles, is currently fitted with a secondhand pair of 36 spoke 700c alloy wheels salvaged from a low-budget hybrid bike that cost only about £150 new. They are not particularly light or prettily finished wheels, but I have no concerns whatsoever about their strength, and I weigh about 195 pounds.


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## Gravity Aided (21 Oct 2018)

I weigh a lot more, and have never had a problem. That being said, I have some skills where spokes are concerned, as well as wheel truing. I would have some problems riding wheels assembled by machine without having a good and honest look at their initial build quality. A host of wheel problems can be covered by uneven spoke tension. Problems that can end a ride, your bike, or your riding. I would have someone have a good look at your wheels. Bike wheels, in an attempt to parody real racing wheels, often have a lot of work done on the cosmetics, forsaking the fundamentals. That being said, I know lots of people who ride bikes like this day in and day out, and have few problems. But when the do come into our bike co-op, because they lack the money for a bike shop, the number one problem with this level of bike seems to be the wheels. Usually problems gradual in their development, but these bikes are ridden for transport. Your wheels may be just fine, but go over them carefully to be sure. Because in cycling, the best advocate for your safety is you yourself.


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2018)

This thread sounds exactly like the Monty Python three Yorkshiremen sketch! I bet the main contributors drive Morris Minors and use Kodak film cameras.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> So long as a wheel has a sensible number of spokes fitted (32+ front or 36+ rear) I would not be concerned about using budget wheels. Even cheap ones are good and strong if they have plenty of spokes in them and they are tensioned and not slack. The ones I would avoid like the plague regardless of claimed quality are those where the maker has tried to pander to weight-obsessed roadies by cutting down the spoke count to a stupidly low number, or oddball designs where the spokes are unevenly spaced around the rim in clusters rather than being equidistant from each other. Wheel failure is highly unlikely without spoke failures occurring first, and a single spoke failure in a rim with a high spoke count is not generally going to do anything apart from cause a slight out of true problem.
> My frontline hybrid bike, that does the majority of my road miles, is currently fitted with a secondhand pair of 36 spoke 700c alloy wheels salvaged from a low-budget hybrid bike that cost only about £150 new. They are not particularly light or prettily finished wheels, but I have no concerns whatsoever about their strength, and I weigh about 195 pounds.



Interesting. I see some riders that have thicker spokes, but much fewer in number, and they are sort of in clusters. Would that mean the wheels are of less integrity? Are they designed this way for looks as opposed to functionality. I care more for how a wheel functions and how safe I am using them, then how it looks.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

Globalti said:


> This thread sounds exactly like the Monty Python three Yorkshiremen sketch! I bet the main contributors drive Morris Minors and use Kodak film cameras.



As a matter of fact I have a few old film cameras in a display case. I would love an old Morris Minor, and an old Mini, like the one Mr. Bean drives, in my driveway. Lovely jubley. 

Regarding a Morris Minor. Back in my college days I had a friend who was a cracker jack back yard mechanic. He managed to get hold of an old Morris Minor, and with his talents, turned it into a screamin' machine. He managed to put in a small block 327 cu. in. Chevy engine, and in the rear, he put wide Mickey Thomson tires. He rigged manual switching so that if he is chased by the gendarmerie, he can turn off the back lights separately. He eventually changing out the 327 for a smaller 283. He said that with the 327 and being such a small car, it was hard to handle. HAHAHAHA!!!


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> Your wheels may be just fine, but go over them carefully to be sure. Because in cycling, the best advocate for your safety is you yourself.



Indubitably! I couldn't agree more.


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Interesting. I see some riders that have thicker spokes, but much fewer in number, and they are sort of in clusters. Would that mean the wheels are of less integrity? .



In my opinion, irregular spoke spacing in wheel rims is just bad engineering. The spokes at the end of each cluster, either side of the spokeless sections, have got to try to keep true a longer section of the rim than the spokes within the cluster that are closer together. If one of the end ones goes ping, you might have six inches or more of unsupported rim wobbling around. In engineering, it is generally better to have a large number of smaller fasteners securing something, than it is to have a small number of larger ones - on a pipe flange for example. Theoretically the overall strength may be equal, but lots of small fasteners spreads the load more evenly and gives you a greater redundancy, because a single failure amounts to a smaller percentage of the total number taking the load than if one single large one failed.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> In my opinion, irregular spoke spacing in wheel rims is just bad engineering. The spokes at the end of each cluster, either side of the spokeless sections, have got to try to keep true a longer section of the rim than the spokes within the cluster that are closer together. If one of the end ones goes ping, you might have six inches or more of unsupported rim wobbling around. In engineering, it is generally better to have a large number of smaller fasteners securing something, than it is to have a small number of larger ones - on a pipe flange for example. Theoretically the overall strength may be equal, but lots of small fasteners spreads the load more evenly and gives you a greater redundancy, because a single failure amounts to a smaller percentage of the total number taking the load than if one single large one failed.



What you say makes a lot of sense. The more spokes evenly spaced makes for more and equal support around the circumference of the wheel. I assume I got that right. Why change something that was perfectly designed in the first place. Like the saying, "if it works, don't fix it," may apply.


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## Gravity Aided (21 Oct 2018)

Globalti said:


> This thread sounds exactly like the Monty Python three Yorkshiremen sketch! I bet the main contributors drive Morris Minors and use Kodak film cameras.


I was in the photographic business myself, as store manager and laboratory director, until about 2004. I once saw a Morris Minor from a distance. If it helps, though, I did drive a very old Mitsubishi Lancer until this year. I still love Kodachrome 25. I still have an Olympus OM2s.


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2018)

Well I used to load my own film cassettes and develop and print my own pics but I embraced digital a few years ago.


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## Gravity Aided (21 Oct 2018)

Globalti said:


> Well I used to load my own film cassettes and develop and print my own pics but I embraced digital a few years ago.


As did I, about 2004, when digital got to be all the thing, as it were. Rather a shame. I liked the people that were into photography. Mrs. GA always tells of how I would get stopped in stores by folks asking me questions about photography.


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> . The more spokes evenly spaced makes for more and equal support around the circumference of the wheel. I assume I got that right. Why change something that was perfectly designed in the first place. .



Partly change for changes sake, partly because of obsessive weight saving. The modern cycle industry doesn't want you to be satisfied with your bike - well not for too long anyway. What they want is for you to believe when you buy a bike that you have got the latest and best design possible, but within a couple of years they will change various things, not because they are any better, but because the new designs are simply different. That renders your bike, that may only be a couple of years old, "out of date", and therefore you simply MUST go out and buy a new bike, even though your old one is still giving perfectly good service and doesn't need to be replaced. 
When you take a step back from all the hype about saving an ounce of weight here and there, and all the marketing nonsense that it will really make you faster, you realise it has little if anything, to do with genuine design advances, but a great deal to do with persuading you to go out and spend a load of money on a new bike that you don't actually need.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Partly change for changes sake, partly because of obsessive weight saving. The modern cycle industry doesn't want you to be satisfied with your bike - well not for too long anyway. What they want is for you to believe when you buy a bike that you have got the latest and best design possible, but within a couple of years they will change various things, not because they are any better, but because the new designs are simply different. That renders your bike, that may only be a couple of years old, "out of date", and therefore you simply MUST go out and buy a new bike, even though your old one is still giving perfectly good service and doesn't need to be replaced.
> When you take a step back from all the hype about saving an ounce of weight here and there, and all the marketing nonsense that it will really make you faster, you realise it has little if anything, to do with genuine design advances, but a great deal to do with persuading you to go out and spend a load of money on a new bike that you don't actually need.



Right on the money. It’s the very same with other industries, and one that comes to mind is photography. I’ve been in it for many years. They keep popping out cameras and lenses by the gazilions making you think the same as what you say about bicycles. A little less weight, and many go goo goo gaga because their parts and frame is 2 ounces lighter. Wanna save 2 ounces. Drink one less cup of coffee before you ride.


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2018)

I was lucky to be immune from all that in photography. My father, as with bicycles, showed me that you could do well in these societies by working with what people no longer wanted because it was out of date. When film went out, I was still shooting with the Olympus OM2s, a Gigantic Soviet Era 21/4 SLR, and a 4x5 view camera. (I sold it all except the OM2s because I thought that I would be out of work, but my biggest asset, my friends, got me a job in security and driving shuttle busses almost the next week, and I was still part-time at my old employer.) I got back into bicycles , and found a fine forum with expertise to help me learn all the ins and outs, some of which I knew, some of which I had forgotten. I found this forum when other forums got a little weird over politics in the States, and it has been a fine place to be ever since. Industries rely on consumer demand, and that demand must be fueled by materialism and dissatisfaction. I have seen few great and momentous changes in the speed or convenience of bicycles since 1985, and the introductions of indexed shifting, mountain bikes, and improved brakes.


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## Rockn Robin (22 Oct 2018)

Gravity Aided said:


> I was lucky to be immune from all that in photography. My father, as with bicycles, showed me that you could do well in these societies by working with what people no longer wanted because it was out of date. When film went out, I was still shooting with the Olympus OM2s, a Gigantic Soviet Era 21/4 SLR, and a 4x5 view camera. (I sold it all except the OM2s because I thought that I would be out of work, but my biggest asset, my friends, got me a job in security and driving shuttle busses almost the next week, and I was still part-time at my old employer.) I got back into bicycles , and found a fine forum with expertise to help me learn all the ins and outs, some of which I knew, some of which I had forgotten. I found this forum when other forums got a little weird over politics in the States, and it has been a fine place to be ever since. Industries rely on consumer demand, and that demand must be fueled by materialism and dissatisfaction. I have seen few great and momentous changes in the speed or convenience of bicycles since 1985, and the introductions of indexed shifting, mountain bikes, and improved brakes.



What people call old and outdated, whether cameras or bicycles, they were, at one time, the latest and greatest, and, in regards to bicycles, they can still provide an enjoyable ride. Technology has changed but The geometry is basically the same. Components are basically the same. Gears get changed, pedals and wheels go around. Materials may be different, but all in all, it’s still a bicycle. 

The forum, well, I’m relatively new here, and I’m very happy to be here. Great place to learn and hopefully I too can be a source of information and help to others.


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## Salar (22 Oct 2018)

Sidestepping,...............This is my Kodak Camera 






I've other 120 film cameras and a few 35mm. Don't like Morris Minors though much prefer a softop Triumph Herald.


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## gaijintendo (22 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Here you go.
> 
> View attachment 434579
> 
> ...



I know the thread has drifted to another topic, so do excuse me. But why are so many bikes "Genesis" branded? When I was in Czechia this summer and they had a bunch of low end Genesis MTBs in one sports chain, which surprised me.


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2018)

Salar said:


> Sidestepping,...............This is my Kodak Camera
> View attachment 434945
> 
> 
> I've other 120 film cameras and a few 35mm. Don't like Morris Minors though much prefer a softop Triumph Herald.


Retina?


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## Salar (22 Oct 2018)

Kodak 66 II


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2018)

There is an English bicycle company called Genesis, and one that supplies Wal*Mart, which mostly seems to originate in Asia.
About Wal Mart bikes, Kev Central on YouTube has a tendency to do a lot of videos about such bicycles.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpaUJSbOGsI


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2018)

Salar said:


> Kodak 66 II


Very nice. I had a Ziess Super Ikonta a bit like that, and a Moscow IV as well.


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## Rockn Robin (22 Oct 2018)

Salar said:


> Sidestepping,...............This is my Kodak Camera
> View attachment 434945
> 
> 
> I've other 120 film cameras and a few 35mm. Don't like Morris Minors though much prefer a softop Triumph Herald.



You should set up a small museum with that collection. Nice!!


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## Rockn Robin (22 Oct 2018)

gaijintendo said:


> I know the thread has drifted to another topic, so do excuse me. But why are so many bikes "Genesis" branded? When I was in Czechia this summer and they had a bunch of low end Genesis MTBs in one sports chain, which surprised me.



They must be popular, and hundreds, if not thousands a day manufactured. Not surprising considering the massive factories in parts of Asia.


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## gaijintendo (22 Oct 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> They must be popular, and hundreds, if not thousands a day manufactured. Not surprising considering the massive factories in parts of Asia.


I wonder if they predate https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk ...


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