# 'Credit Card' touring



## zimzum42 (21 Jul 2009)

Has anyone done this?

I've heard it spoken of. Seems you set off in your lycras with no panniers and other bags, and just charge everything to the card and wash your lycras each night in the hotel...

Sounds good, because the one thing that puts me off doing a long multi-day ride is the thought of carting all my gear around....


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## Darryl (21 Jul 2009)

I have completed a couple of multi day trips with just a pair of shorts, light-fleece, sandles, toothbrush, phone and credit card. Even using hotels I have found that I need to carry quite a bit of kit unless you want to sit in your room all evening


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## rich p (21 Jul 2009)

I don't think it refers to a tour that minimal! I think spare clothes are de rigeur!


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## zimzum42 (21 Jul 2009)

I can understand the shortcomings, but the idea of riding with panniers and/or a rucksack is just horrible. Riding through the alps or somesuch, I would want to be able to ride like the pros, and they don't have a Thorn with a rack!


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## snorri (21 Jul 2009)

You meet up with a much better class of person when touring with a heavy load. 
Touring in lycra:?:. No thank you, I like to fit in with the locals and not look like some alien creature.


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## Redvers (21 Jul 2009)

I am not quite so minimalist but I can recommend light weight touring, although it’s a bit of an art to get right.
We’re just back from 7 days touring around Brittany, staying in Gites and B&Bs. Total luggage weight including rack and rack pack 3.2 Kilos.
The trick with clothing is of course clever light weight layering and stuff that doesn’t get smelly. Merino wool is the key, forget cotton, forget all those hyped up synthetics and definitely no lycra.
Also take cash carefully concealed rather than credit cards, it’s cheaper and you can use it anywhere.


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## andym (21 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> I can understand the shortcomings, but the idea of riding with panniers and/or a rucksack is just horrible. Riding through the alps or somesuch, I would want to be able to ride like the pros, and they don't have a Thorn with a rack!



No they have a huge support team with vans. 

If you really don't want to carry any luggage then look at the companies that do supported tours. These come in either the 'self-guided' flavour where you get a route map and they ship the luggage to your next hotel, or guided where you have one or more guides plus a driver with a 'sag' van. Of course you pay for the backup and convenience, but you may decide it's worth it. Supported tours can also be very sociable.


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## HJ (22 Jul 2009)

In some places there are luggage services, where to pay someone else to take you bags ahead for you. Just turn up with your credit card in the evening and book in...


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## andym (22 Jul 2009)

HJ said:


> In some places there are luggage services, where to pay someone else to take you bags ahead for you. Just turn up with your credit card in the evening and book in...



Or local taxi firms - but it's pricey if you're on your Jack Jones.


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## benborp (22 Jul 2009)

I've gone to south west France from London and back with all that I could carry in my jersey pockets. My journey was simply about getting from A to B by cycling as quickly as possible. Leave work in London cycle to Portsmouth and eat donuts on the promenade. Free accommodation on the Ferry overnight, fuel up before docking, cycle beyond the Loire consuming energy bars and gels from the pockets and bananas bought en route. Overnight stay in a Formule 1 hotel - rinse (kit) and repeat. I was staying with family so had no issue with obtaining clothing for a weeks stay. On the journey back I bought a pizza in Normandy to supplement my replenished supply of gels and bars.

I think I could manage a week or so of this sort of routine with well planned refreshment and replenishment stops.


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## simon_brooke (22 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> I can understand the shortcomings, but the idea of riding with panniers and/or a rucksack is just horrible. Riding through the alps or somesuch, I would want to be able to ride like the pros, and they don't have a Thorn with a rack!



I used to tour on a light race bike with a trailer. It's OK except you work harder uphills, and, when you've got to your resting place of the night you just unhook the trailer and you have your lovely light race bike back. I've just bought myself a new trailer - the co-op's single wheeler, which should arrive here Friday - so I may be taking this habit up again later this summer.


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## PaulSB (23 Jul 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> Has anyone done this?
> 
> I've heard it spoken of. Seems you set off in your lycras with no panniers and other bags, and just charge everything to the card and wash your lycras each night in the hotel...
> 
> Sounds good, because the one thing that puts me off doing a long multi-day ride is the thought of carting all my gear around....



This is what I do, though hesitate to call it a tour as there are people far more serious about touring than myself. I have a rack, which is easily removable, and an expandable bag which sits on it. One of the great things about the bag is the side pockets can be unfolded to make mini-panniers.

I have two views on the whole thing; my interest is to ride, not sightsee etc, for as long and as far as possible. A nice B&B and evening meal helps! Secondly if I went for an 80-90 mile ride from home I wouldn't carry anything other than the first six items so why do I need the kitchen sink? I can as easily get into trouble on a 50 miler from home as on the ride to Berwick I hope to do next week!

I take the following:
2 x tubes
P*nct*re repair kit
Pump
CO2 canister
Phone
Cash and cards
Energy gels / bars
compass
orienteering whistle - round neck when have broken leg in ditch!!
Relevant pages from motoring atlas
space blanket - in pocket - see whistle!
2 x bib shorts
2 x shirts
base layer
micro fleece
arm / leg warmers
2 x socks
waterproofs
trousers with zip off legs
t-shirt /polo shirt
flip flops / sandals
iPod loaded with talking books
pain killers
toothpaste / brush
insect repellent

This will sound wasteful but if I need anything else - clean shirt perhaps - £2 in Tesco gets a new one! On a nice evening I go to a pub perhaps buy a paper. If it's wet, cold or I feel anti-social I listen to a talking book.


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## dellzeqq (23 Jul 2009)

credit card touring is easy-peasy when you're on your own - it's when you get hitched that it starts getting complicated.

My approach is a tad more hefty than Ben's (chapeau). I have a five litre mini saddle bag (Carradice do them for about £25) that I can just about cram in 
- spare shorts
- spare shirt
- spare socks
- lightweight waterproof
- mini-pump
- lightweight lock
- puncture repair kit, levers, multi-tool
- two spare tubes
- CO2
- maps torn out of a road atlas
- phone and charger
- credit card and cash

then, when you arrive at the hotel or B+B, slip in to your clean cycling gear, wash out the stuff you've just taken off, hang it over the shower rail, and take dinner dressed in lycra. Nobody minds.

However....the upcoming Simon and Susie's Super Summer Suffolk Safari has prompted me to buy a 16 litre aero saddlebag (again from Carradice, about £65), and prompted her to say 'we're both going to need one of those'. And to realise that she needs a new wardrobe of lightweight silk tops and trousers. Watch this space....


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## jimboalee (23 Jul 2009)

Yup, done this.

Did a 'Tour de Travelodge' a year or so ago.

PRK, Wallet, phone, underpants, light shorts, tee shirt, flipflops. All in rear pockets.

Tip. Wear one 'really light' jersey ( airtex from the USA ) under a top layer cycle jersey. You've now got six pockets.


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## andym (23 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> and take dinner dressed in lycra. Nobody minds.



Dinner in _lycra_? Yikes? Even dinner in shorts is beyond the pale *shudders*


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## dodgy (23 Jul 2009)

What about this S24O concept that Cycling + mention in their recent issue? Basically you head off for 24 hours and stay overnight somewhere. That sounds quite appealing. The emphasis is on very light kit, only essentials.


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## Arch (23 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> credit card touring is easy-peasy when you're on your own -



And you have the money....


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## bigjim (26 Jul 2009)

How do you get a talking book on to your i-pod? And keep your page? My talking books are on tapes.


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## PaulSB (31 Jul 2009)

bigjim said:


> How do you get a talking book on to your i-pod? And keep your page? My talking books are on tapes.



Sorry only just noticed this. I use my local library and borrow talking books on CD for 50p each. Load the CDs on to your PC in iTunes in excatly the same manner as a music CD. The only thing to be careful about is naming the CDs and tracks to make sure the iPod stores and plays them in the right order. Therefore I use the following naming Book Title CD 01, Track 01, 02, 03 etc. If you don't put a "zero" at the front it will store as 1, 10, 11, 12 etc instead of 01, 01, 03 etc. Newer CDs are properly indexed but it's still worth keeping an eye on as occassionally the CDs indexing goes haywire and you end up listening to chapter 1 followed by chapter 10!

As I have a lengthy commute by car and never seem to have time to read a book I listen to talking books on the iPod each way most days. The commute flies by.

Only downside is choice is a little restricted but the local library have kept me going like this for the last two years.


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## willem (31 Jul 2009)

Personally, I don't care for hotels and restaurants - I spend too much time there already. However, I think light weight camping is a serious alternative. How much does the extra kit weigh, after all? Tent (Hilleberg Akto), 1.5 kg., mattress plus sleeping bag (Neoair plus a PHD bag) 1 kg, stove plus fuel (Trangia 27 UL) 1 kg. So altogether about 3.5 kg more than what you already carry, at a cost of some 750 pounds. So money wise, you can earn that investment back pretty quickly by the savings on hotels and restaurants. And if you want to go really lightweight there are decent alternatives to bring the weight down even further, to about 2.1 kg, if you are prepared to give up a bit of comfort and bad weather capability: Terra Nova Laser Competition tent (940 grams), a lighter (colder) sleeping bag such as the PHD Minim Ultra (345 grams) with a slightly shorter medium size mattress (370 grams), and a more minimalist cannister stove with just one pot.
Willem


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## Bodhbh (31 Jul 2009)

bigjim said:


> How do you get a talking book on to your i-pod? And keep your page? My talking books are on tapes.


Nowadays you can try something like Audible to download them as MP3s and just copy them to your player:

http://www.audible.co.uk/

I don't think it's bad value, last I checked audiobooks on CD and tape used to cost an arm and a leg.


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## andym (31 Jul 2009)

The sound quality on audible.co.uk is really poor because they still record at 64kb/sec - OK for audible books but really rubbish for drama/comedy. Going to the library, or even buying the CDs is a better option - or try http://radioarchive.cc 

You can also get public domain audio books of books that are out of copyright - try the human-read audio book category on Project Gutenberg

Oh and on the subject of books, if you have an iPod Touch/iPhone it's well worth downloading Stanza - which gives access to thousands of free public domain books and a growing number of paid-for eBooks. for other devices check out Mobipocket.

EDIT: Oh and when it comes to making the audiobook remember your place:

- open iTunes
- click on the track or tracks you want to make bokmarkable
- press ctrl-I (on a Windows machine, cmd-I on a Mac)
- when the info dialogue appears click on options
- you'll then see a box that says 'remember playback position' check it and then save
- sync the iPod with iTunes.


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## just4fun (5 Aug 2009)

i seem to do things the other way:
my bike is around the 30k mark when loaded and thats with marianne my other half carrying the tent on her bike. (i have a feeling its something to do with the deluxe-stupidly-heavy-airbed i choose to bring with me)


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## Riverman (6 Aug 2009)

After having my bike nicked, the second hand replacement I bought developing loads of faults, getting a massive puncture, the tyres wearing out I've lost interest in cycling abit. Not to mention my bad claustrophobic experience with a single man tent I have also gone off the idea of touring

The plan was to do a tour from Southampton to Cheltenham. It's 85 miles. I haven't done a ride yet over 30miles. I guess I could do that in one day provided I don't get lost but maybe I should head for Swindon (55miles) then if I feel too tired, just get the train the rest of the way and headout with a change of clothes in my rucksack.

The plan was to camp half way but alas I can't really afford a new tent or the panniers to go with it.


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## andym (6 Aug 2009)

Riverman said:


> After having my bike nicked, the second hand replacement I bought developing loads of faults, getting a massive puncture, the tyres wearing out I've lost interest in cycling abit. Not to mention my bad claustrophobic experience with a single man tent I have also gone off the idea of touring
> 
> The plan was to do a tour from Southampton to Cheltenham. It's 85 miles. I haven't done a ride yet over 30miles. I guess I could do that in one day provided I don't get lost but maybe I should head for Swindon (55miles) then if I feel too tired, just get the train the rest of the way and headout with a change of clothes in my rucksack.
> 
> The plan was to camp half way but alas I can't really afford a new tent or the panniers to go with it.



New tyres. Youth hostel. Sorted.


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## PpPete (6 Aug 2009)

willem said:


> Personally, I don't care for hotels and restaurants - I spend too much time there already. However, I think light weight camping is a serious alternative. How much does the extra kit weigh, after all? Tent (Hilleberg Akto), 1.5 kg., mattress plus sleeping bag (Neoair plus a PHD bag) 1 kg, stove plus fuel (Trangia 27 UL) 1 kg. So altogether about 3.5 kg more than what you already carry, at a cost of some 750 pounds. So money wise, you can earn that investment back pretty quickly by the savings on hotels and restaurants. And if you want to go really lightweight there are decent alternatives to bring the weight down even further, to about 2.1 kg, if you are prepared to give up a bit of comfort and bad weather capability: Terra Nova Laser Competition tent (940 grams), a lighter (colder) sleeping bag such as the PHD Minim Ultra (345 grams) with a slightly shorter medium size mattress (370 grams), and a more minimalist cannister stove with just one pot.
> Willem



Or Laser Photon tent - 740 grams. 
Ditch the mattress. Use a piece of bubble wrap - 50 to 100 grams depending on size you can manage with. Or balloon bed (100g including pump)
MSR Pocket Rocket Stove & Titan Kettle/mug 

Whole camping kit about 1.2kg - and what you can't fit in your pockets you could probably fit in bottle rack or bungy cord to frame?


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## bonj2 (9 Aug 2009)

I've been giving some serious thought to this zimmers as it's something i'm thinking of doing.
My instinct is to take my audax bike with racktop bag on the train, cycle an A-B route, over several days, staying in B&Bs, and get the train back.

My thinking is thus:
The touring i want to do is in france, which means getting the TGV to "A" and back from "B", and a bitof research tells me that they don't like bikes on unless they've got the wheels off and in a bag. So you at least need to carry the bike bag with you.
Plus, I think wearing the same shorts for say 5 days is going to get a little uncomfy.

So therefore I need at least the racktop bag, the full panniers if i'm camping instead of B&Bing. which means i need the audax bike not the racer.

What you're suggesting would be possible on three conditions: (1) is that you're comfortable wearing the same shorts for however many days you're going, (2) that you can get breakdown insurance/some sort of rescue arrangement should a mechanical happen, (3) that you can transport the bike to "A" and back from "B", i.e. you don't need a bike bag or that you can somehow get it from "A" to "B" without having to carry it.

Further musing on these conditions:
(1) I've never tried it so I don't really know, but if you do try it and find it to really chafe it would be a really bind to have to turn back. You'd have to keep buying shorts and chucking the old ones away, which would make it more expensive a trip than you'd planned.
(2) You might need this anyway. Beyond punctures and broken chain, which can be fixed with what you can carry on the racer, what mechanicals are you likely to have?
Something like a broken spoke you'd be able to replace if you have chainwhip, cassette tool and spare spokes, they're no way carryable on the carbon blingmobile but possibly are on the full tourer, but anything else you'd want to have breakdown insurance anwyay. Broken saddle? Split wheel rim? Can't really recover from that very easily.
(3) You could, with a bit of arrangement and faith, post it.

Another possibility arises though: whatever area you're thinking of going to, you could simply have multiple bases and from there go out on round-trip rides, leaving your stuff at the base. From looking at maps, it occurred to me that you *_might_* be able to achieve a higher concentration of the good riding to the boring 'grind' - the interconnecting trunk roads.


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## bigjim (10 Aug 2009)

Not very enviro but I am considering taking the car + tent to a area I have not visited in detail before. Find a good campsite, erect my frame tent complete with carpets chairs, table, cooker etc and spend 2/3 days doing different circuits from the campsite on a light racer. I've also considered just taking the [estate] car and using car to wild camp and as a base. Anybody done this?

Jim


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## mcr (10 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> (1) I've never tried it so I don't really know, but if you do try it and find it to really chafe it would be a really bind to have to turn back. You'd have to keep buying shorts and chucking the old ones away, which would make it more expensive a trip than you'd planned.



He did say he was prepared to wash them each night...

And some of the newer TGVs (eg the TGV Est Strasbourg) often take bikes whole, if you reserve a space in advance


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## snorri (10 Aug 2009)

bigjim said:


> Not very enviro but I am considering taking the car + tent to a area I have not visited in detail before. Find a good campsite, erect my frame tent complete with carpets chairs, table, cooker etc and spend 2/3 days doing different circuits from the campsite on a light racer.


You have described my introduction to cycle touring, but I used B&B instead of a tent. 
After discovering new and interesting places on the bike, I found it frustrating to have to return to base where the car was parked each night, so I bought panniers and just left the car at home in the following years, using train and ferry to get to my starting point.
There are of course advantages of touring with little or no luggage.


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## MacB (10 Aug 2009)

to do it truly credit card only then you need to restock at each stop. If it's planned ahead then you purchase the items you want online and have them mailed to each hotel. On arrival you have waiting for you, an evening outfit, toiletries and fresh cycling kit for the next day. You also re-use the packaging to mail the dirty kit/evening outfits home. If your route isn't planned then you'd need to look for shops, that may prove a bit trickier.


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## cheadle hulme (10 Aug 2009)

bigjim said:


> Not very enviro but I am considering taking the car + tent to a area I have not visited in detail before. Find a good campsite, erect my frame tent complete with carpets chairs, table, cooker etc and spend 2/3 days doing different circuits from the campsite on a light racer. I've also considered just taking the [estate] car and using car to wild camp and as a base. Anybody done this?
> 
> Jim



Same here, just got back from a month in France doing this. Stayed at campsites for 3/4 days as it was a pain packing and unpacking everything, including reassembling the bike.

I went off cycling all day, the missus went doing whatever missus things she does and we met back at camp at tea time and went out for the evening.

It was a bit of a tighter squeeze in a Skoda Fabia than I'd have liked though. Ended up breaking the rear mech as I slammed the car door on it at one point.


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## andym (10 Aug 2009)

You could have the best of both worlds: use the train/ferry/bike to get to your base. Then set up base camp and go riding.


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## willem (10 Aug 2009)

Alternatively, ride there on an audax bike with a two wheeled trailer with the luggage, and make unloaded tours from there.
Willem


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## bonj2 (10 Aug 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> to do it truly credit card only then you need to restock at each stop. If it's planned ahead then you purchase the items you want online and have them mailed to each hotel. On arrival you have waiting for you, an evening outfit, toiletries and fresh cycling kit for the next day. You also re-use the packaging to mail the dirty kit/evening outfits home. If your route isn't planned then you'd need to look for shops, that may prove a bit trickier.



This is ridiculously optimistic! What are the chances that *_every_* hotel is going to have received the kit, and is going to have it ready for you?
There are so many things that could go wrong: post late, person that received the hotel's mail doesn't communicate with the receptionist, hotel begrudges guests receiving mail there, hotel nicks it, etc etc...

But a very good way of doing it if you could be sure it was going to work!


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## Riverman (10 Aug 2009)

How about 'charity shop and primark touring'?

Buy clothes from charity shops and primark in each town/city then replace in the next? lol

Shirt - £3
trousers: £4
pants and socks - probably about £6 combined from primark

Not exactly good for the environment but affordable.

Maybe take the clothes back to the charity shop once you've used them?


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## bigjim (11 Aug 2009)

> You could have the best of both worlds: use the train/ferry/bike to get to your base. Then set up base camp and go riding.


In the UK that could be a pain getting them to accept the bike. There is enough stories on here about accessing public transport with a bike. Like it or not, it is so much easier to use the car and you can transport more gear to make life a little easier.


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## bonj2 (11 Aug 2009)

Riverman said:


> How about 'charity shop and primark touring'?
> 
> Buy clothes from charity shops and primark in each town/city then replace in the next? lol
> 
> ...



only problem is charity shops and primark don't sell cycling gear.


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## willem (11 Aug 2009)

The train is never a real problem on the continent. The problem with the car is that you cannot do a one direction ride: you always have to return to your car. As for gear: less is more in my experience. The less junk the better.
Willem


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## andym (11 Aug 2009)

bigjim said:


> In the UK that could be a pain getting them to accept the bike. There is enough stories on here about accessing public transport with a bike. Like it or not, it is so much easier to use the car and you can transport more gear to make life a little easier.



Complete and utter rubbish.

UK trains companies are among the most bike-friendly in Europe. And that's a fact from a survey by the European Cyclists Federation.

If you are travelling in a group of say four then a car is possibly easier, ditto if you want to cart a bunch of useless crap like camping chairs, but otherwise the train is easy and convenient. Yes OK maybe you have to get off your arse and do some research and maybe make a reservation but once you're on the train it is way easier, more relaxing, and often quicker than by car.


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## bonj2 (11 Aug 2009)

andym said:


> Complete and utter rubbish.
> 
> UK trains companies are among the most bike-friendly in Europe. And that's a fact from a survey by the European Cyclists Federation.
> 
> If you are travelling in a group of say four then a car is possibly easier, ditto if you want to cart a bunch of useless crap like camping chairs, but otherwise the train is easy and convenient. Yes OK maybe you have to get off your arse and do some research and maybe make a reservation but once you're on the train it is way easier, more relaxing, and often quicker than by car.



I quite like cycling by train, but do find the car much easier.
I'm doing a sportive down south in october, and i'm going on the train purely 'cos it is more relaxing and less boring - I don't want to drive all that way, but i've got to take my audax bike, as i will have to have my lights and GPS on, plus i won't worry about it getting knocked as much.

Still it's quite a reasonable price, 45 quid return.


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## dellzeqq (11 Aug 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> to do it truly credit card only then you need to restock at each stop. If it's planned ahead then you purchase the items you want online and have them mailed to each hotel. On arrival you have waiting for you, an evening outfit, toiletries and fresh cycling kit for the next day. You also re-use the packaging to mail the dirty kit/evening outfits home. If your route isn't planned then you'd need to look for shops, that may prove a bit trickier.


a few years ago I mailed my clothes to Kirkwall 'poste restante' and it worked fine.

One thing just arose that I'd not come across before. I always phone the hotel and ask if there is indoor storage space for the bike. Well, every hotel on the official Harwich guide said 'no'. It took a daytrip up there to find one that would say 'yes'. It may be a Harwich thing - from the humblest B+B to the grandest hotel there always seems to be a will to make room, although one scottish hotelier did remark as I chained my bike up _inside_ a garage 'Simon, you live in a different world to Carfraemill - nobody's going to steal your bike up here'.


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## snorri (11 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> only problem is charity shops and primark don't sell cycling gear.


It's only a problem if you have been conned into thinking you cannot cycle in ordinary clothes.


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## bonj2 (11 Aug 2009)

snorri said:


> It's only a problem if you have been conned into thinking you cannot cycle in ordinary clothes.



but ordinary clothes are only acceptable to cycle in if you've never worn lycra and realised how much more comfortable it is, or you're vain enough to think you look silly/skinny/fat in lycra (and stuck-up enough to care).


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## bigjim (11 Aug 2009)

> Complete and utter rubbish.
> 
> If you are travelling in a group of say four then a car is possibly easier, ditto if you want to cart a bunch of useless crap like camping chairs, but otherwise the train is easy and convenient. Yes OK maybe you have to get off your arse and do some research



What an extremely rude and unpleasant reply.


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## zimzum42 (12 Aug 2009)

Why would you need any different clothes for each day? What's difficult about washing your stuff before going to bed and letting it dry by morning?


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## andym (12 Aug 2009)

bigjim said:


> What an extremely rude and unpleasant reply.



Sorry if the tone was irritable/irritated, but your post deserved a robust response. Heck, you weren't even talking from direct experience. 

Like it or not climate change is something we all have to take seriously and we all can do something to help. Hiding behind excuses about how difficult it is to use public transport isn't going to help.


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## bigjim (12 Aug 2009)

> Sorry if the tone was irritable/irritated, but your post deserved a robust response. Heck, you weren't even talking from direct experience.
> 
> Like it or not climate change is something we all have to take seriously and we all can do something to help. Hiding behind excuses about how difficult it is to use public transport isn't going to help.


What experience would you like? CTC fuly loaded? Calais to Marseille fully loaded? Manchester to Torquay using YHAs and wild camp in a field with only carradice s/bag as luggage? Climate change has yet to be proven to be a fault of the human race. I was not hiding behind anything. I was asking if anybody had any experience of this! Nobody has to subscribe to your, or my idea of touring. The post did not deserve a "robust response". Now who is hiding behind excuses? Your irritability and unnecessarily aggressive reply does nothing to encourage sensible, balanced discussion. It also serves to put possible new posters from joining these forums and havng their say. Do you not think we meet enough impolite, aggressive behaviour out on the roads without bringing it here?


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## andym (12 Aug 2009)

How about some direct experience of travelling on trains with a bike before you try putting people of using them?

Your post got the response it deserved.


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## rich p (12 Aug 2009)

Stop squabbling now!

If you disagree with another post it isn't necessary to call it 'complete and utter rubbish' IMHO. There are better ways of challenging than aggression especially on T&E. Save it for Politics and Life maybe.


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## bigjim (12 Aug 2009)

> How about some direct experience of travelling on trains with a bike before you try putting people of using them?
> 
> Your post got the response it deserved.


Traveled back on the train from Torquay with the bike. OH and in 2000 Zurich to Milan [superb views] Was not an attempt to put people off the train. I love trains and use them a lot. But I'm also open to other peoples opinions and ideas. When I have been touring fully loaded I often wished I was on a light fast racing machine on some of the routes rather than a heavy tourer and the car idea was IMHO one way of achieving this. Thats all. Nothing sinister. It's a shame that you have took the line you have as it seems you may have the experience to contribute in a positive way to my enquiry. However I agree all this is bickering is pointless and I will take this innocent enquiry to another cycling forum where I may receive a more pleasant response. I just hope there are no non-members reading this, that may be intimidated from joining and asking a question that may provoke such a hostile reply. As to the "response it deserved". I am not the only one that thinks you are wrong. Obviously our ideas of acceptable behaviour differ. Good luck with yours.

Jim


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## dpiper (4 Sep 2009)

I've done loads of tours with minimal kit, no problem - can never understand why people seem to want to carry all their worldly goods with them!
Details here:

www.tra-velo-gue.co.uk


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## zimzum42 (7 Sep 2009)

Nice site Dave!

Though wish you had written a bit more about Singapore!


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## Andy in Sig (8 Sep 2009)

rich p said:


> Stop squabbling now!
> 
> If you disagree with another post it isn't necessary to call it 'complete and utter rubbish' IMHO. There are better ways of challenging than aggression especially on T&E. Save it for Politics and Life maybe.



Oi! Do you mind! That's complete and utter rubbish. P & L is super polite.


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## rich p (8 Sep 2009)

Andy in Sig said:


> Oi! Do you mind! That's complete and utter rubbish. P & L is super polite.



No it isn't, you blithering halfwit


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## HelenD123 (8 Sep 2009)

dpiper said:


> I've done loads of tours with minimal kit, no problem - can never understand why people seem to want to carry all their worldly goods with them!
> Details here:
> 
> www.tra-velo-gue.co.uk



That's some serious daily mileage you do!


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