# Navigation device or Smartphone?



## Cycleops (21 Nov 2017)

i was just about to push the button on a Elemnt or Edge820 when I thought do I really need this. Is there a phone app that does the same job? I really just need it for turn by turn directions and points of interest for touring in Europe. I’m aware of the battery life issue but are there any other drawbacks to using a phone?


----------



## jefmcg (21 Nov 2017)

Osmand does turn by turn from its own route or your gpx, off line. Actually speaks the turns instead of just beeping.

That's on Android. I believe iPhone version lags in features.


----------



## mjr (21 Nov 2017)

OsmAnd can also switch the screen off between turns, largely solving the battery issue. A battery charge will easily last a 24 hour ride.


----------



## PaulSB (21 Nov 2017)

Personally I would go for a GPS unit of some sort. I could list a few reasons but right at the top by a mile is the battery life issue. 

Have you considered the Edge Touring or Touring Plus. I bought my son one and was impressed by it. All the navigation and recording of the 820 but none of the bells and whistles. Not sure if you can add an SD Card with maps on the Touring models.


----------



## pclay (21 Nov 2017)

Battery life and waterproof-ness are the main advantages of a GPS cycle computer. If you can overcome these two issues, then a phone is probably better, provided you can get a mount, and off-line maps or a data connection.


----------



## dickyknees (21 Nov 2017)

As Dogtrousers says, both.



Dogtrousers said:


> A related issue to battery life is separation of function. I don't particularly want to lose my GPS tracking and navigation (due to running out of power) but if it happens, it happens - tough luck. However I _*really *_don't want to lose the ability to make phone calls. On the other hand, if I'm out of signal range I want to be able to continue to navigate, so offline maps are a must. By having two separate devices I can manage the two risks independently. If it's all in the phone and you lose one device, you've lost the lot.
> Another point, as @pclay says, is robustness. GPS are designed to sit on your bars in all weathers, phones aren't.


----------



## Aushiker (21 Nov 2017)

+ 1 to what Dogtrousers said. Also and this may depend on the time of year you tour but I find my phone screen hard to read outside particulary in summer. My GPS on the other hand is fine to read.

Also I like my phone to be in a relatively safe place in case I crash and need to use it.


----------



## ColinJ (21 Nov 2017)

I use both. GPS for main navigation, with phone for backup or to look for alternative routes if I change my mind when out. I have all-UK OS mapping on my phone at all scales from 1:10,000 to 1:250,000 so I don't need a phone signal. I don't have a phone bar mount though, so navigating a complex route could involve lots of stops and starts when consulting the phone.


----------



## mjr (21 Nov 2017)

ColinJ said:


> I don't have a phone bar mount though, so navigating a complex route could involve lots of stops and starts when consulting the phone.


Use voice prompts. Only have to stop if it's very noisy.


----------



## XC26 (21 Nov 2017)

Cost and personal preference, I suppose. There will usually be a workaround for most issues. For example, if you prefer to use your smartphone, carry a juice-pod (spare battery pack) for battery life worries on longer rides; a waterproof case for wet rides, etc. Personally, I use my iPhone for navigation, be it driving, cycling or walking. This is because I don’t want to invest in a relatively expensive separate device, with limited capabilities, given that I already have a device that will serve the same purpose and also do much, much more besides.


----------



## steveindenmark (21 Nov 2017)

The Element Bolt is excellent. My other device is a Garmin Touring . I have had lots of Garmin Devices but they are not a patch on the Bolt. Maybe now Garmin will start getting their act together.


----------



## ianrauk (21 Nov 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> The Element Bolt is excellent. My other device is a Garmin Touring . I have had lots of Garmin Devices but they are not a patch on the Bolt. Maybe now Garmin will start getting their act together.


I think you'll be waiting a very long time. They have been beta testing all their devices on punters since way back. They wont change that.


----------



## steveindenmark (21 Nov 2017)

ianrauk said:


> I think you'll be waiting a very long time. They have been beta testing all their devices on punters since way back. They wont change that.


I don' need to wait. I have the Bolt


----------



## Tin Pot (21 Nov 2017)

Cycleops said:


> i was just about to push the button on a Elemnt or Edge820 when I thought do I really need this. Is there a phone app that does the same job? I really just need it for turn by turn directions and points of interest for touring in Europe. I’m aware of the battery life issue but are there any other drawbacks to using a phone?



Have a gander at a map before setting off, use a phone as back up. Surely you want scenic routes rather than quickest?

Otherwise I use iPhone and iwatch with Maps.


----------



## Aushiker (21 Nov 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Have a gander at a map before setting off, use a phone as back up. Surely you want scenic routes rather than quickest?
> 
> Otherwise I use iPhone and iwatch with Maps.



Not sure of the logic of this ... just because I use a GPS, a Wahoo Elemnt in my case it does mean my routes of choice are only the quickest or not scenic. I choose a route that suits what I am doing, touring, audax, communting, running an errand etc. 

What I do use the Wahoo Elemnt alot for is to route me on a pre-planned route which I have set up in RideWithGPS. For example my Esperance to Albany Coastal Cruise in less than two weeks which involves 10 days of remote riding on beaches and hopefully still ridable 4WD tracks and the like. Nothing fast about the ride, more scenic and well survival


----------



## ColinJ (21 Nov 2017)

mjr said:


> Use voice prompts. Only have to stop if it's very noisy.


I have only ever needed the phone for navigation once (on my bike) when a group of us decided to take a shortcut on a forum ride. I just looked at the OS map and memorised the shortcut which eventually took us back onto the original route. I might take a look at OSMAnd anyway though to see what I make of it.

I have a second GPS kindly donated to me by Oldfentiger. It had been damaged by a leaking battery which rotted away a battery connector. I did a temporary repair to get it working again but I think the bodge will eventually fail so I need to do a more permanent fix. It has an OSM map of the UK so that would become my main GPS and my older mapless one could be used for backup.


----------



## ianrauk (22 Nov 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> I don' need to wait. I have the Bolt


Exactly my point and that's why Garmin are losing customers at a huge rate.


----------



## steveindenmark (22 Nov 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Exactly my point and that's why Garmin are losing customers at a huge rate.


I am hoping it gives them a hard kick up the butt. Garmin needs to have navigation as good as Elemnt and Elemnt need to have the add ons Garmin has.


----------



## mjr (22 Nov 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> I am hoping it gives them a hard kick up the butt. Garmin needs to have navigation as good as Elemnt and Elemnt need to have the add ons Garmin has.


What add ons? And could they anyway? Don't Garmin jealously guard their Garmin-only add ons like that sinister Group Track shoot? After all, it's a way to punish any group riders who dare buy deviant GPS devices or try to use their phones with a non-Garmin app.


----------



## Blue Hills (22 Nov 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Going OT a bit but I've found a big difference between Garmin bike products, that seem a bit poorly thought out and flaky and the outdoor handheld products which I can't fault.


Yes. Got to love marketing. The garmin touring thing which lots of folk complain about. As far as i can see costs a fair whack more and does less than my etrex20. Which i use for, er, touring, amongst many other things.
Must say i don't understand all the garmin criticisms on here but maybe that''s because i don't need one for performance riding and also have a strong resistance to hype.
My etrex20 has the odd quirk, but less than many products (or people for that matter) and generally I think it's great.
Which garmin do you use dogtrousers and for what?


----------



## Ticktockmy (22 Nov 2017)

When touring I use a Satmap Active 10 GPS, but I carry a paper map to cover my route as well, also on my phone I have the usual navigation Apps including Cycle meter. I personally like a paper map because unlike the small area of map shown on Electronic devices, the paper map allows you to see the big picture and work out any changes you might have to make to ones route.


----------



## ColinJ (22 Nov 2017)

Ticktockmy said:


> I personally like a paper map because unlike the small area of map shown on Electronic devices, the paper map allows you to see the big picture and work out any changes you might have to make to ones route.


That is why I have 1:10,000, 1:25,000, 1:50,000 and 1:250,000 UK maps on my phone. I can still see (a smaller part!) of the 'big picture', but progressively zoom in for more detail if I need to. At 1:250,000 scale I can see an area approximately 15 kms x 8 kms; more like 20 kms x 11 kms if I wear my reading glasses. Typically that would be enough for 30-60 minutes of riding without scrolling the map. It wouldn't take a ridiculous amount of scrolling to cover a full day of riding for me. 

When I first started with my GPS I used to print maps of my new routes to carry as backup. I stopped doing that when I realised that I never needed to refer to the maps in the first 7 years!


----------



## Gravity Aided (22 Nov 2017)

I started on paper maps, scale measurers, and lensatic compass, moved to GPS satnav(an old Magellan 2000) and went on to the pocket PC with satnav, but anymore,I can use the phone and offline and online maps to find out what I need to know, all of it, including whether the hotel or motel has rooms, where to eat, and if they have wi-fi. And I can use my lamp/weather radio/ generator thing to charge the phone up. I still use paper maps, though, when i can't get signal for the phone. The best back-up is an analog back-up. For so many reasons.


----------



## The Lone Rider (23 Nov 2017)

I use a Garmin Tourer Edge, no problems does what I want it to do, phone I use for a phone. Preference at the end of the day.


----------



## PaulSB (23 Nov 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Must say i don't understand all the garmin criticisms on here but maybe that''s because i don't need one for performance riding and also have a strong resistance to hype



I’m the same and don’t really understand the criticisms.

When I first had an 810 I had a lot of problems with it freezing and/or shutting down. After doing a factory reset and carefully following the manual to set the device up I’ve had no problems. 

My only comment would be is the menus don’t always contain the items I would expect.


----------



## Blue Hills (23 Nov 2017)

PaulSB said:


> I’m the same and don’t really understand the criticisms.
> 
> When I first had an 810 I had a lot of problems with it freezing and/or shutting down. After doing a factory reset and carefully following the manual to set the device up I’ve had no problems.
> 
> My only comment would be is the menus don’t always contain the items I would expect.


Can your menus be rearranged/customised? - they can on my Etrex 20.

My 20 still freezes now and again. I have to take the back off and quickly take out and replace the batteries but it is no great problem.

Hell there's worse things that could happen than a 1 minute delay on a bike ride.

Very very occasionally (only happenned twice in the years I have had it) it does get screwed up and think it has lost all its routes and/or waypoints.

It hasn't - it has just got nervous about its indexing. 

I just have to connect it to my chromebook (though could use a tab as well) - take the stuff off and then put it back on.

Then all is well.

I think it might be caused by a bad shutdown when the batteries are very low so if on tour I don't run the batteries to the absolute bottom/until shutdown.

In short I think it'd great and I'd recommend a reconditioned Etrex 20 to anyone for general purpose cycling. I also use it wandering around town. Much prefer it for my purposes than the race orientated things I have seen and which bike shops would rather sell you.

The only thing I would ever change it for is one of the larger hiking orientated but bike mountable units.

I don't want touch screen.

Wireless connectivity to an android tab would be handy but that's about it.


----------



## John Peel (27 Nov 2017)

Cycleops said:


> i was just about to push the button on a Elemnt or Edge820



I bought the Edge Explore 1000 and what a waste of money that has been for navigation. Not being able to put in a full postcode was a big downer for me, only the are part of the postcode is possible with standard maps. It cuts out sometimes and if it doesn't cut out, it stops navigating and the screen stays on. It is OK for logging the mileage for the day and altitude and basic functions, but not as a navigation device. After 3 months through France and Spain, I found my iphone 5i much much better. 

I don't use the Google Map app supplied with it, as that's a bit crappy too, but what I do at the start of each day is type Spain (if I'm in Spain) into the Google search box, then it brings up a link and picture to a map of Spain, I click on that and it opens up a map window, a little different to the Google Maps app, and so much easier. It will show a blue dot where you are, and offer up the option for directions. So I zoom in, pic a point on the map or enter a point in the direction box, stick my headphones in, put the phone in my handlebar box, and off I go.

Another benefit for me using this technique, is that I can go into the settings and pick a shop or campsite or whatever on my route, and it will divert me to that first before continuing on to my destination. It's much easier and better than the Garmin, and it wont cost you anything either. Battery life is less, but you getting more, and you can always just tap it into a battery bank like I do.


----------



## nickyboy (27 Nov 2017)

Gravity Aided said:


> I started on paper maps, scale measurers, and lensatic compass, moved to GPS satnav(an old Magellan 2000) and went on to the pocket PC with satnav, but anymore,I can use the phone and offline and online maps to find out what I need to know, all of it, including whether the hotel or motel has rooms, where to eat, and if they have wi-fi. And I can use my lamp/weather radio/ generator thing to charge the phone up. I still use paper maps, though, when i can't get signal for the phone. The best back-up is an analog back-up. For so many reasons.



I love technology and use it to the fullest extent I can. However, if I was touring around Europe and was in countries where maybe I couldn't communicate so well and on roads I had no knowledge of at all, I would take a physical map. Particularly if I had a prearranged destination each evening

Almost certainly never need it as I would have my Garmin with Phone backup. But.....you never know


----------



## Gravity Aided (27 Nov 2017)

My 1990's handlebar bag has such a nice map pocket arrangement, seems a shame not to use it.


----------



## JhnBssll (28 Nov 2017)

I've pre-ordered a Hammerhead Karoo, not due to be delivered until Spring next year as I was a little late to the party so will be a while until I get my hands on it. Early reviews seem quite positive and it's cheaper than the Garmin alternative but we shall see.


----------



## Blue Hills (28 Nov 2017)

JhnBssll said:


> I've pre-ordered a Hammerhead Karoo, not due to be delivered until Spring next year as I was a little late to the party so will be a while until I get my hands on it. Early reviews seem quite positive and it's cheaper than the Garmin alternative but we shall see.


sorry, I don't get this. You've ordered something that doesn't really exist yet?
Rather reminds me of buying houses/flats "off plan". I remember being told by an estate agent I was so old fashioned for wanting to see something first.


----------



## ColinJ (28 Nov 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> sorry, I don't get this. You've ordered something that doesn't really exist yet?
> Rather reminds me of buying houses/flats "off plan". I remember being told by an estate agent I was so old fashioned for wanting to see something first.


It does exist - they just haven't made many of them yet!


----------



## Blue Hills (28 Nov 2017)

ColinJ said:


> It does exist - they just haven't made many of them yet!


Yes i see that they are in the "ramping up" production phase, as in making some more after the lab product.
Best of luck with it jhn, and maybe it will be great, but i still see this as taking "early adopter" to extremes. What's wrong with waiting for a launch, some reviews, some folks' experience of it?

Will watch it with interest, though I see that it has a built in battery.


----------



## JhnBssll (28 Nov 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> What's wrong with waiting for a launch, some reviews, some folks' experience of it?



If everyone waited, who would write the first reviews?


----------



## jefmcg (28 Nov 2017)

JhnBssll said:


> If everyone waited, who would write the first reviews?


Well, not you. .You aren't going to see if for 4-6 months.


----------



## JhnBssll (28 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Well, not you. .You aren't going to see if for 4-6 months.



 Technically true but not quite the point i was trying to make 

It takes all sorts - I enjoy trying new tech out. Sometimes I end up buying a lemon but more often than not I'm pleasantly surprised  I can of course perfectly understand others taking a more cautious route and waiting for feedback and reviews. I'm just not that sensible.


----------



## Lozi (28 Nov 2017)

My GPS is a Mio does that make me an outcast for not having a Garmin?

I’m very happy with it by the way.


----------



## jay clock (29 Nov 2017)

I have Garmin 1000 which I use to preplan GPX routes. Generally VERY happy in that I can lead a ride (small group of friends) and painlessly head off into parts unknown. 

Few comments:
1 - settings can be very fiddly, particularly make sure you turn off auto rerouting if following a Course
2 - the further I am away from home, the more important it is to plan properly on RWGPS (I zoom in and street view fiddly bits). Also RWGPS (not Garmin's fault) often diverts off a main road and down a village street or cycle track for 100m for no good reason)
3 I find the 1000 very fiddly for touring (i.e. navigation to a point). Best to choose an intermediate point 20k away rather than further


----------



## John Peel (29 Nov 2017)

jay clock said:


> I have Garmin 1000 which I use to preplan GPX routes. Generally VERY happy in that I can lead a ride (small group of friends) and painlessly head off into parts unknown.
> 
> Few comments:
> 1 - settings can be very fiddly, particularly make sure you turn off auto rerouting if following a Course
> ...



If I could work out how to use the pin a spot on the map to navigate I would use that, but as I move the pin to place and try to set it, it wont set. Maybe you could instruct me on that one, it would be a big help and I might then be able to use the garmin for other than just recording my miles for day. Its not easy for me to pre plan and install routes, as I am always on the move from day to day, so I'm presuming you have to do that with a laptop prior to the ride.


----------



## Alan O (2 Dec 2017)

Just on the battery life issue, I carry a USB power thing with me. If I'm only using my iPhone for tracking rather than navigating (which is usually) it stays plugged into it in my bag, or if I am navigating I give it some power on sections where I don't need it. And I top up my fitbit watch when I have a stop, if it needs it. Oh, and for phone calls, I carry my ancient small, lightweight, Nokia 2310 - low power consumption, and the battery lasts ages.


----------



## John Peel (2 Dec 2017)

Alan O said:


> Just on the battery life issue, I carry a USB power thing with me. If I'm only using my iPhone for tracking rather than navigating (which is usually) it stays plugged into it in my bag, or if I am navigating I give it some power on sections where I don't need it. And I top up my fitbit watch when I have a stop, if it needs it. Oh, and for phone calls, I carry my ancient small, lightweight, Nokia 2310 - low power consumption, and the battery lasts ages.



I too use USB battery banks. I have 2 and they are only quite small, but between them will keep my phone and other bits charged for days. So when in a campsite, I just leave them plugged in at the reception desk until morning. I would be knackered without them to be honest.


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Dec 2017)

Can recommend the large anker 2100 one john peel.

Re your post upthread, it is possible to produce workable daily routes on an android tab running OSMand+ and get them onto a garmin. No internet needed.


----------



## Alan O (2 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Can recommend the large anker 2100 one john peel.
> 
> Re your post upthread, it is possible to produce workable daily routes on an android tab running OSMand+ and get them onto a garmin. No internet needed.


I presume you mean 20,100 - that's the one I've got, and it lasts for ages and charges things quickly.


----------



## John Peel (2 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Can recommend the large anker 2100 one john peel.
> 
> Re your post upthread, it is possible to produce workable daily routes on an android tab running OSMand+ and get them onto a garmin. No internet needed.



The 2 battery banks I have - EasyAcc 10k - are great for me. Having 2 at 10,000 means I can leave one on charge while still having the other, and they are pretty light really. I would be knackered with out battery banks of any sort. I have a laptop with me and iPhone X now, as it's been donkey's years since I was on Android. But I suppose I could work out routes on my laptop and get them over to my Garmin, Its just another thing to do each and every day though, as I don't know where I will be from one day to the next. I would just like to be able to pin a pin to my garmin explorer 1000 but can't work out how to do it. I can find the spot I want to place the pin on the map, but when I place the pin, there is no way of it staying there and giving me directions. I'm doing something obviously wrong, but can't get the best answer.


----------



## the_mikey (2 Dec 2017)

Cycleops said:


> i was just about to push the button on a Elemnt or Edge820 when I thought do I really need this. Is there a phone app that does the same job? I really just need it for turn by turn directions and points of interest for touring in Europe. I’m aware of the battery life issue but are there any other drawbacks to using a phone?



Phone should do the job, except GPS absolutely fries the batteries on any mobile phone I've ever used, so I would use a phone if you also have some kind of robust battery management strategy such as a hub dynamo or a large backup battery. I can't speak for the Elmnt or the Garmin 820, but I would be more inclined to use a garmin like device.


----------



## Alan O (2 Dec 2017)

the_mikey said:


> Phone should do the job, except GPS absolutely fries the batteries on any mobile phone I've ever used, so I would use a phone if you also have some kind of robust battery management strategy such as a hub dynamo or a large backup battery. I can't speak for the Elmnt or the Garmin 820, but I would be more inclined to use a garmin like device.


I did an approximately 10-hour ride earlier this year, tracking GPS on my iPhone (with the Strava app), and the phone was connected all the time to my Anker 20,100 battery bank. At the end, it had only just dropped to showing 3 leds out of 4, which suggested I could go around 4 days of similar rides between charges.


----------



## Randy Butternubs (2 Dec 2017)

I think you can compensate for the shortcomings of phones for a lot less money than a dedicated device costs. I've never owned a dedicated GPS device and don't usually use my phone for bicycle navigation so take this with a pinch of salt:

- Many newer phones are waterproof.
- You can get cases which are waterproof and crash resistant.
- Phone touchscreens can be tempremental when they have water on them but I've head new ones are a lot better.
- I've heard you can get matt glass screenprotectors which cut out the glare in direct sunlight.
- Obviously you can get powerbanks etc. to extend the battery life.

Also, phones seem to be more versatile than dedicated GPSs. The power and good screens let you pan and zoom quickly and you can make up routes on the fly which seems awkward or impossible on many other devices. You can ask for a point-to-point route or upload your own from a computer. You can use downloaded offline maps or, if you have internet connection, you can use google maps which will often tell you where the nearest cake stop is. You have the choice of regular road maps or OS maps too.


----------



## John Peel (3 Dec 2017)

Alan O said:


> I did an approximately 10-hour ride earlier this year, tracking GPS on my iPhone (with the Strava app), and the phone was connected all the time to my Anker 20,100 battery bank. At the end, it had only just dropped to showing 3 leds out of 4, which suggested I could go around 4 days of similar rides between charges.



I would be lost without my power banks. My 2 together equal 20k, and get the same kind of life. My Garmin is at the bottom of my bag for emergencies only. I'm looking for a good handle bar holder my iPhone X. Its the biggest screen I have had and its crystal clear, waterproof to nearly 2 meters, and in comparing it to my iPhone 5s over this last week, the batter lasts about 5 times longer. I had to get bluetooth headphones though for when I return to Marseille, as when using Google Maps or Maps.me on my phone, I always use the headphones connected directly to the phone so I can shove the phone in the handle bar bag and still get directions. The problem was that I kept forgetting I had taken my headphones off when I got off the bike and then rode off trapping then in the front wheel. I lost 4 lots of headphones like this in 3 months. The iphone x doesn't have a headphone socket. The power socket doubles as a headphone socket but thats no good when I'm trying to charge the phone at the same time. Lets hope I don't loose my bluetooth headphones, I need to more careful


----------



## Blue Hills (3 Dec 2017)

Re your laptop, did you say upthread what it is? If a conventional windows jobbie with a hard disc i would consider swapping it on tour for a chromebook. Tougher, far superior battery life.


----------



## Alan O (3 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Re your laptop, did you say upthread what it is? If a conventional windows jobbie with a hard disc i would consider swapping it on tour for a chromebook. Tougher, far superior battery life.


My aluminium-bodied MacBook is pretty tough, it has an SSD and good battery life, and I can fully charge it multiple times from a single charge of my Anker 20,100


----------



## Alan O (3 Dec 2017)

John Peel said:


> I would be lost without my power banks. My 2 together equal 20k, and get the same kind of life.


Yes, I sometimes think two 10k ones might have been better than a 20k, so I can charge one while I'm using one - I might get a 10k too for that reason.


----------



## Blue Hills (3 Dec 2017)

Alan O said:


> My aluminium-bodied MacBook is pretty tough, it has an SSD and good battery life, and I can fully charge it multiple times from a single charge of my Anker 20,100


Don't think i can recharge my chromebook from a powerbank (i use a tab on tour,) but am impressed. Usb output on the powerbank obviously. What does it feed into on the macbook?


----------



## Alan O (3 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Don't think i can recharge my chromebook from a powerbank (i use a tab on tour,) but am impressed. Usb output on the powerbank obviously. What does it feed into on the macbook?


MacBook has a single USB-C/charger port, and I use the cable from the USB mains charger that came with it.


----------



## John Peel (3 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Re your laptop, did you say upthread what it is? If a conventional windows jobbie with a hard disc i would consider swapping it on tour for a chromebook. Tougher, far superior battery life.



Having a little background with computers, I opted for a windows base laptop. No reason other than personal taste and I have tons of video and image editing software that is windows based, as will as other software. I have a dell with i7 and all the fruit. It has USB and c charging ports. I opted for SSD rather than HDD drive due to the bone shaking it was going to be getting. No moving parts was important to me. A normal hard drive would have been toast by now, I'm sure of it. It also helps on battery life too, because solid state drives help to start up really quickly, make it fast on software, and it shuts down quick, not to mention I can man handle it while its switched on. That said, each to there own hey, I'm in no doubt at all that the Apple would trounce all over my Dell in a lot of ways.


----------



## John Peel (3 Dec 2017)

Alan O said:


> My aluminium-bodied MacBook is pretty tough, it has an SSD and good battery life, and I can fully charge it multiple times from a single charge of my Anker 20,100


 SSD all the way for cycle touring.


----------



## jefmcg (3 Dec 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Re your laptop, did you say upthread what it is? If a conventional windows jobbie with a hard disc i would consider swapping it on tour for a chromebook. Tougher, far superior battery life.


How is a chromebook these days without internet? When they first came out, they were basically poorly designed doorstops without wifi.


----------



## Blue Hills (3 Dec 2017)

John Peel said:


> Having a little background with computers, I opted for a windows base laptop. No reason other than personal taste and I have tons of video and image editing software that is windows based, as will as other software. I have a dell with i7 and all the fruit. It has USB and c charging ports. I opted for SSD rather than HDD drive due to the bone shaking it was going to be getting. No moving parts was important to me. A normal hard drive would have been toast by now, I'm sure of it. It also helps on battery life too, because solid state drives help to start up really quickly, make it fast on software, and it shuts down quick, not to mention I can man handle it while its switched on. That said, each to there own hey, I'm in no doubt at all that the Apple would trounce all over my Dell in a lot of ways.


Sounds good. Especially the usb charging port. I could be tempted by that but to be frank i am happy to have left windows and its update messes behind.


----------



## Blue Hills (3 Dec 2017)

jefmcg said:


> How is a chromebook these days without internet? When they first came out, they were basically poorly designed doorstops without wifi.


You can work on documents offline. They are then loaded up to the cloud and synced with your android tabs next time you connect to the internet. Lots of free wifi available these days. In my uk travels another reason to pop to a spoons. An italian city i often visit has a fair bit of urban free wifi so i can sit under a palm tree looking at the med while i update stuff. I actually like the way it defaults to shoving stuff onto cloud google drive as in the past i have been lax with my backup regime. Google drive allows you to select files for offline availability. You can of course plug in a pen drive for extra offline storage. Some apps, notably a good text editor i use for editing gpx files work fine offline.
My chromebook is 14 inch, sleek aluminium case, cost me £170. I feel well shut of windows, now and again i get the old windows laptop out and it just feels so damn clunky. Chromebook charges fast and the battery can last 10 hours or more.


----------



## Blue Hills (3 Dec 2017)

Alan O said:


> I presume you mean 20,100 - that's the one I've got, and it lasts for ages and charges things quickly.


Yes, that's the one. Very well built. Will recharge my 7 inch tab and (non smart) phone a fair few times. Tend to think it's good to use very high capacity powerbanks as of course there is a built-in pretty high power loss in them. I wouldn't use anything under 10,000 beczuse of that. And in fact when you do the basic sums the anker 20,100 one is usually better value. Comes with its own bag of course, though that is the shoddiest bit of it. But when i commented on this to anker (the fastening cord bust within a day) they very nicely sent me a brand new one - have upgraded both with thin bungee cord and my own toggles.


----------



## Kosong (1 May 2018)

I also have the 20,100 powerbank from amazon, its great. Now I have two - and will likely bring both on longer tours over a week or so. I've always just used my iPhone to navigate and keep strava idling in the background, But I tend to familiarise myself with the route beforehand then write down junctions/track numbers/road names etc and set it as my lock screen so i can just tap the phone to see my written directions. i only turn the phone and maps on if im lost or need to deviate from the route. This serves me well in the uK but i'm planning a 2-3 week tour from uk to germany in summer and i dont know how well it will work over there...plus, i did the switch to Android a few weeks back and i'm loving the phone and better battery life (plus dash charging - meaning a full charge from empty to full in 30 mins or so - great for pitstops  ) but i need to find a decent app for plotting and viewing offline cycle routes because google maps is **** for driving so i dread to trust it on the bike!! If anyone has android specific recommendations for apps i can use for both on and offline bike route planning in Europe, especially belgium/holland/germany, then let me know!


----------



## Blue Hills (1 May 2018)

Kosong, I can unreservedly recommend osmand on android. Five map downloads for free I think to allow you to test it. If you pay a fiver or so you have unlimited map downloads and updates for life. Works offline and can even calculate routes offline. I use a garmin for navigating (prefer for all sorts of reasons) but I also carry a very humble 7 inch tab with osmand on it. You can put gpx files onto the app so that you can have a big pic of your full route on the map with the garmin taking care of the on ride turn by turn instructions. The app uses osm data so very detailed and up to date.


----------



## Kosong (1 May 2018)

Thanks @Blue Hills! I'm going to download that shortly and check it out...does it not deal with navigating you there or is it more to be used as a map?


----------



## Blue Hills (1 May 2018)

It will live navigate you there I think but I never use it for that. Prefer the garmin for live navigating on the bike. It will though as I said produce routes offline - slower than online I think and maybe depends on distance. But offline route generation does work - have used it in my tent and I don't use a smartphone. It is very configurable, particularly in the POIs you can get it to show. Some a bit dodgy as I recall somewhere in its murky depths 

It can get a bit of getting used to so I would fiddle with it awhile before setting of on a tour.

The paid for unlimited version is called osmand plus. Same as the free one I think apart from having unlimited map area downloads.

Maps way better than google I think. And unlike google offline maps, no need to renew them frequently to stop them disappearing. You just have the option to update your offline maps once a month but you don't have to.


----------



## Kosong (1 May 2018)

excellent! their Plus package is half price right now - I'm going to have a play around with it the next few days, sadly i have no time to get out on the bike as im at work for the next few weeks but will most likely grab the full version if it turns out to be a useful looking app. for £4 you can't go wrong really!


----------



## Blue Hills (1 May 2018)

Used to be a fiver, a year or so ago in a real bargain promo it was £2.50.

It's gone up?

If it is a genuine half price I'd grab it now -their offers are usually limited I think.

There are other bolt-ons you can pay more for but they are pretty specialist and I've never bothered - for a very modest sum you get lifetime updated maps for anywhere you are likely to pedal.

Be nice if you could report back on your impressions of it Kosong.


----------



## Kosong (2 May 2018)

I will do indeed - I'm planning on doing my annual cycle from Bristol to London in a few weeks providing the weather isn't absolute rubbish so I'll get back to you then!


----------

