# Hey- Brompton Bicycle Co.!



## FolderBeholder (5 Jun 2019)

I love my S6L, and find it’s design and functionality (mostly) timeless. It’s an awesome bike as-is.
However I’d like to suggest some functional, evolutionary enhancements to further better it’s innate “goodness”:

1) How about laser engraving or even stamping some numbered index marks on the seat post to help speed and better the fold/unfold cycle your products are renowned for?

2) A small, two-holed tab welded to the left-side chainstay for optional use for mounting a proper kickstand.
Not EVERY Brompton rider relishes the fold-under parking method, and in all honesty the spate of aftermarket stands which are Brompton-specific and mount to the rear axle pretty much suck (IMO)
You could make this tab standard, or offer it as an option and this would not impact the fold either with, or without a stand mounted AND also make the rear rack more useful. Inasmuch as this feature MAY attract some new clients who otherwise aren’t hugely attracted to the lack of standard kickstand on the Brompton.

3) How about broadening your product line? Some of us would love a Brompton with thicker tires, and the ability to more adequately travel on unpaved paths, and just be bit more “outdoorsy” than the single basic product you build now. Of course this would likely be a thicker, and somewhat less elegant fold than the urban assault Brompton we all know now, but that would likely be inconsequential on a bike built for slightly different mission, but leveraging Brompton’s design, and reputation for build quality. 

Thanks for listening Brompton....and NO charge for my free product recommendations.


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## steveindenmark (5 Jun 2019)

Why is this on here?


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## Scottish Scrutineer (5 Jun 2019)

Perhaps the OP meant to email design@brompton.com


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## mitchibob (5 Jun 2019)

1) Because instead they give you a sleeve you can adjust and install that means you only pull your seat to the correct height, unless you changed your seat-post for a cheap titanium one.

2) The fold under standing is fine. Why add more weight? 

3) Marathons are pretty much off-road tyres. Certainly following a load of national cycle route paths recently seemed pretty much off-road.


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## Cycleops (5 Jun 2019)

They are very slow to make changes. Brompton are not a bicycle company, they are in the main facilitators of urban transport and this is their focus. Their primary market is commuters and unlike Tern and Dahon don't make a slew of models. Any modifying for other tasks is up to owners.


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## FolderBeholder (5 Jun 2019)

mitchibob said:


> 1) Because instead they give you a sleeve you can adjust and install that means you only pull your seat to the correct height, unless you changed your seat-post for a cheap titanium one.
> 
> 2) The fold under standing is fine. Why add more weight?



Re-seat stopper: Definitely not a plug and play solution, nor adaptable after-the-fact. Point being....index marks would accomplish the same thing and eliminate another proprietary component. 

Fold-under standing is fine. For some. Not for all. The additional weight of the “tab” would be countered by the elimination of the weight of the seat sleeve stopper (see above) while offering traditional standing option to those who wish/require it. You dont want the additional weight of the sidestand? Dont install one. 
You dont care or the benefits for one’s use override the slight extra weight...,the option is built-on to do so.

Cycleops.
Disagree. Brompton IS a bicycle company....with a single product. Need to broaden to remain viable and capture new as well as current customers looking for different riding products. Take Moulton for instance-several models from soup to nuts, yet they all have the Moulton DNA. The worlds most successful companies in all corners of commerce offer more than one product.


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## srw (5 Jun 2019)

FolderBeholder said:


> eliminate another proprietary component.


I think you misunderstand the Brompton business model. Which is all about proprietary components and standardisation. 


FolderBeholder said:


> Need to broaden to remain viable and capture new as well as current customers looking for different riding products.


They're not exactly doing badly with a narrow product range...


FolderBeholder said:


> The worlds most successful companies in all corners of commerce offer more than one product.


Apple - designer lifestyle
Facebook - connecting people
Amazon - selling any old shoot

Brompton - versatile do-it-all passenger transport for people with space constraints


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## Geedubbayoo (6 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Why is this on here?


Why not? Please be explicit with details. Did the original post break any forum rules? Sincerely interested to know. Thanks!


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## Pat "5mph" (6 Jun 2019)

Geedubbayoo said:


> Why not? Please be explicit with details. Did the original post break any forum rules? Sincerely interested to know. Thanks!


Welcome to CC @Geedubbayoo!
I can confirm the OP is not breaking any forum rules


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## oldwheels (6 Jun 2019)

I used standard Brompton tyres often off road with no real problem. Inflation to 100 psi. Just be careful to pick the least bumpy route. For seat height marking I use a bit of cord attached to the saddle and down to the frame. Pull it tight and height is right first time.


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## T4tomo (6 Jun 2019)

We sent you the Brompton, you sent us Donald effing Trump. 
And you have the temerity to complain????
Give your head a shake fella.


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## Cycleops (6 Jun 2019)

Sorry @FolderBeholder it may be a while until you get used to the sense of humour and ribbing on here.


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## Geedubbayoo (6 Jun 2019)

I haven’t been on this forum for long but had been impressed with the level of civility I’d seen so far. However I’m a little disappointed in the first couple of reactions to the original post. I’m not sure if it’s because of the inherent xenophobia or the fact that they feel the Brompton design is sacred and above criticism or some combination, ie. that an American would offer comments on a British product.

(I’m not including those later posts accompanied by a smiley face icon; that little clue makes the poster’s intention clearly not antagonistic.)

I’ve owned a Brompton for seven years now and while I truly love the bike I can see room for improvement. That’s part of the reason I read forums like this.

To the OP’s points:

1. Have you tried using a Sharpy pen to mark your seat post height? I’m lucky in that the tallest extension of the regular post is just right for me.

2. The “fold under” stand doesn’t work for folks with rear racks and bags, or it is at least cumbersome to use for a brief stop, so some sort of provision / better way to integrate a kickstand is not a bad idea.

Anyways, I’m enjoying this forum a lot so far. Thanks to those who have made me feel welcome!


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## TheDoctor (6 Jun 2019)

In all fairness, Moulton sell essentially a single frame (albeit with a non-separable option) with a variety of gearing options.
As do Brompton. They're both happy to work within their niche.


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## shingwell (6 Jun 2019)

Geedubbayoo said:


> Have you tried using a Sharpy pen to mark your seat post height?


I have...and it rubs off very quickly on the seat tube liner.

I just learnt to like a slightly higher saddle so the fully extended seatpost is now fine for me too (5'9")!


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## FolderBeholder (6 Jun 2019)

T4tomo said:


> We sent you the Brompton, you sent us Donald effing Trump.
> And you have the temerity to complain????
> Give your head a shake fella.


Touche'
(and...apologies)


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## FolderBeholder (6 Jun 2019)

TheDoctor said:


> In all fairness, Moulton sell essentially a single frame (albeit with a non-separable option) with a variety of gearing options.
> As do Brompton. They're both happy to work within their niche.





TheDoctor said:


> In all fairness, Moulton sell essentially a single frame (albeit with a non-separable option) with a variety of gearing options.
> As do Brompton. They're both happy to work within their niche.


Not to split hairs, but they also offer builds with different tires, aimed at different types of riding. Not revolutionary....evolutionary. 
Like a great cook tweaking a great recipe....


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## steveindenmark (7 Jun 2019)

Geedubbayoo said:


> Why not? Please be explicit with details. Did the original post break any forum rules? Sincerely interested to know. Thanks!


No you are not breaking any rules. But I thought this may be better addressed to Brompton themselves.


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## Cycleops (7 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> No you are not breaking any rules. But I thought this may be better addressed to Brompton themselves.


True but I think it's an interesting point and worthy of discussion. I always wonder how Brompton will carry on with just one product in various forms and special editions.


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

Cycleops said:


> I always wonder how Brompton will carry on with just one product in various forms and special editions.


This^^^


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> No you are not breaking any rules. But I thought this may be better addressed to Brompton themselves.


Some manufacturers actually peek into forums to see what their real, live clients say about, and do with the products they manufacturer. Its a form of market research...and can be a wise business practice.


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## steveindenmark (7 Jun 2019)

Cycleops said:


> True but I think it's an interesting point and worthy of discussion. I always wonder how Brompton will carry on with just one product in various forms and special editions.


They have done it for years and it doesnt seem to be slowing down. What suprises me is that some Brompton owners have multiple Bromptons.


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## ukoldschool (7 Jun 2019)

I personally took this thread in the spirit it was intended, not sure why some people are so grumpy /\/\/\ but thats life, you get grumpy gits everywhere.

I do a gravel track a few times a week on my B on Marathon plus, its quite fast and downhill with some fast (ish) bends that could always have a dog walker around them, and theres no doubt in my mind that a knobbly tyre would suit this particular application much better, but then it would be terrible on normal roads, so I just live with it and make sure the bike is as straight and upright as its possible to be (I am desperate to beat the 'course record' on this trail, but I cant see how I can find 13 seconds to beat a 'proper' downhill biker that currently is the fastest  )


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> They have done it for years and it doesnt seem to be slowing down. What suprises me is that some Brompton owners have multiple Bromptons.


If thats true (as in if you have stats to support that comment...despite quoting their move to a new, larger factory. There may be some underlying other reason predicating that as well) that doesn’t mean it will/can continue. 

Most bicycle enthusiasts are multiple bicycle owners, Brompton owners are simply a part of that same subset. 
I own 3 bikes atm, all folders, and only one Brompton. I dont desire another*, and adore the one I have. 
But...it’s not perfect, nor without areas which could be refined. 

(*I’d like a Moulton XTB truth-be-told. And a Rivendell. And a mini-velo. And a....)

Brompton offers essentially the same, single product it started with some 40 years ago, and nothing more. Certainly the bicycle business has and continues to change (the introduction of an electrified Brompton is a step forward though, but it’s still intended to serve the same niche of the market the standard one is) and most manufacturers respond to those changes by broadening their offerings.

The demise of the likes of Eastman Kodak and Polaroid come to mind as single-focused (no pun intended) companies which didnt embrace changing tastes in photography or not soon enough anyway to stay viable after being at the top of their games.


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

ukoldschool said:


> I personally took this thread in the spirit it was intended


Exactly....I’m not dissing Brompton in any way, shape or form. I’m simply offering some real-time input as to what THIS Brompton owner thinks/wishes.


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## Tenkaykev (7 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> They have done it for years and it doesnt seem to be slowing down. What suprises me is that some Brompton owners have multiple Bromptons.



That'd be my good lady wife, got a Black / Berry Crush C bag at a really good price so got a new Purple Brommie to go with it.
Turns out the new bike has S bars so the bag won't fit


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> That'd be my good lady wife, got a Black / Berry Crush C bag at a really good price so got a new Purple Brommie to go with it.
> Turns out the new bike has S bars so the bag won't fit


Love the purple...


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## ianrauk (7 Jun 2019)

You only have to cycle in London on a commute to see how popular Bromptons are. Massively popular.


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## Tenkaykev (7 Jun 2019)

FolderBeholder said:


> Love the purple...



My wife has named her other Brommie "Badger". Why Badger? I asked.
"Because it's Cream" was her reply, "and it's got Disraeli Gears"

The new one has yet to arrive but my wife is already referring to it as "Jennifer"
(after Jennie Joseph, who wrote the Poem " Warning")


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## mickle (7 Jun 2019)

Brompton have always been glacial in the pace of product development. They will not change a thing unless it demonstrably improves the bike. It took years and years of nagging by dealers before they began offering anything more than black/red paint. So good luck persuading them to fit a kickstand bracket any time in the next decade. 

You're not the first person to imagine a better Brompton. If you really think there's a great untapped market for a Brompton kick-stand bracket why not go ahead and design it, manufacturer it and bring it to market? There are plenty of folks offering Brompton hop-up parts.


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## 12boy (7 Jun 2019)

I don't have a C bag, but after going with moustache bars found the big shopping bag works just fine with no bar interference on the bag. It also allows for road type brake levers with a release. One of my improvement wishes would be for brakes that have a release as most sidepulls do. I would also like option of wider tires, but I've read posts in which the 349 rims were replaced with 305s and larger tires, ending up with same diameter wheel after the tire is included in measurement. I have often wondered why Bromptons are made with lighter steel, 4130 chrome moly or one of the Reynolds alloys. Does anyone know the reasoning behind using high tensile steel other than expense?


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## FolderBeholder (7 Jun 2019)

mickle said:


> Brompton have always been glacial in the pace of product development. They will not change a thing unless it demonstrably improves the bike. It took years and years of nagging by dealers before they began offering anything more than black/red paint. So good luck persuading them to fit a kickstand bracket any time in the next decade.
> 
> You're not the first person to imagine a better Brompton. If you really think there's a great untapped market for a Brompton kick-stand bracket why not go ahead and design it, manufacturer it and bring it to market? There are plenty of folks offering Brompton hop-up parts.



Yup, Brompton hop-up parts are a dime-a-dozen so to speak. Most of them are just that...while they may exceptionally well-crafted, they aren't necessarily exceptionally well integrated into the function and DNA of the product they are intended for.

I must be naive, because I find many aftermarket parts are almost always a compromise in quality, compatibility, functionality or any combination of the same. This isn't just applying to Brompton aftermarket goodies....I've had the same experience for years on Vespa and other motorcycle aftermarket stuff, as well as items for many of the automobiles I've owned over the years. Hence my *shout-out* hereto the actual MANUFACTURER. 

While they may be glacial in their pace to refine their products, when they do it's typically done as well as it's going to be done, works in concert with(or improves upon) the rest of the functions of the machine and with the full attention to their product's entire reputation in mind (most aftermarket suppliers don't take that X-factor into account). Again, this doesnt just apply to Brompton.

As an example: Leatherman, an American manufacturer of multi-tools, has actually produced new products based on many modifications posted on forums by those who own, love and have modified them. Clearly they have an ear to the tracks in terms of what (else) their client base wants, and then act upon it.


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## chriscross1966 (8 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> They have done it for years and it doesnt seem to be slowing down. What suprises me is that some Brompton owners have multiple Bromptons.


Why is it a surprise?... I've got five, though one of them is a fixer up to sell... the daily rider, the sunny sunday bike, a daft retro racer, and the chassis of what will be a radical recumbent...


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## chriscross1966 (8 Jun 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> That'd be my good lady wife, got a Black / Berry Crush C bag at a really good price so got a new Purple Brommie to go with it.
> Turns out the new bike has S bars so the bag won't fit


So an obvious business case for n+1....


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## steveindenmark (8 Jun 2019)

chriscross1966 said:


> Why is it a surprise?... I've got five, though one of them is a fixer up to sell... the daily rider, the sunny sunday bike, a daft retro racer, and the chassis of what will be a radical recumbent...


It suprises me Chris because they are so expensive and very similar to each other. I have 7 bikes but very different to each other.


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## Schwinnsta (8 Jun 2019)

12boy said:


> I don't have a C bag, but after going with moustache bars found the big shopping bag works just fine with no bar interference on the bag. It also allows for road type brake levers with a release. One of my improvement wishes would be for brakes that have a release as most sidepulls do. I would also like option of wider tires, but I've read posts in which the 349 rims were replaced with 305s and larger tires, ending up with same diameter wheel after the tire is included in measurement. I have often wondered why Bromptons are made with lighter steel, 4130 chrome moly or one of the Reynolds alloys. Does anyone know the reasoning behind using high tensile steel other than expense?



Hi tensile steel is better for hand brazing the relatively large lugs to on the main frame. I think this is the reason. I would like to see them adopt 355 rims and tires so that wider tires like Birdy has and make bike work for wider tires. I realize it would increase the fold but I think it would be worth it. What is 6 mm among friends. You can get 305 wheels and use them but you will need drop bolts for brake reach.


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## Rocky (9 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> They have done it for years and it doesnt seem to be slowing down. What suprises me is that some Brompton owners have multiple Bromptons.


I have 2 Bromptons. One titanium M6L with son dyno lights and a lower gearing ratio for touring and a big standard M6R for riding about town.


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## srw (9 Jun 2019)

Schwinnsta said:


> What is 6 mm among friends.


The difference between being able to squeeze into a small space on a train and not.


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## TheDoctor (9 Jun 2019)

srw said:


> The difference between being able to squeeze into a small space on a train and not.


*That*. The main difference between the 313 and 365 trains on my line, is that on the 365 a Brompton will just about fit in the space between seat backs. On a 313 it just about won't.


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## chriscross1966 (10 Jun 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> It suprises me Chris because they are so expensive and very similar to each other. I have 7 bikes but very different to each other.



Mine really aren't that similar....



 



 



 

I'll leave you to imagine a recumbent without a handlebar stem or seatpost....


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