# Painfully bright Chinese lights



## Racing roadkill (3 Oct 2017)

Why must people use front lights which you could spot from the I.S.S. on their bikes? If they must, shouldn't there be a law that says that a bicycle front light, must be adjusted, for beam angle, as is required for motor vehicles?


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## dan_bo (3 Oct 2017)

yes.


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## mjr (3 Oct 2017)

There is a law. No one enforces it. Like many traffic laws. Road Justice now!


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## Maenchi (3 Oct 2017)

Yes...far too bright !


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## Seevio (3 Oct 2017)

Just wait till they go into flashing mode. On a dark cycle path I can literally not tell where they are.


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## potsy (3 Oct 2017)

What you need is 2 or 3 of them for maximum effect


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## Jody (4 Oct 2017)

potsy said:


> What you need is 2 or 3 of them for maximum effect



And one on your lid


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## Tangoup51 (4 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> Why must people use front lights which you could spot from the I.S.S. on their bikes? If they must, shouldn't there be a law that says that a bicycle front light, must be adjusted, for beam angle, as is required for motor vehicles?



Honestly, those types of lights - (with the battery packs and wide spread beams) are absolutely spot-on for those tight hard trails that aren't populated by dog walkers or joggers.

However, too many people buy these excessively powerful lights to use on the road - or, more commonly, for tow paths.

When People buy these chinese lights; they understand how powerful it is - and, they often (if not always) take into consideration how this may effect other road users.

Sadly, alot of those overly powered lights aren't designed to be positioned downward to reflect the light out the way. - (alot of those lights don't have good "reach" on their beams, just spread; meaning their ability to angle their lights is further impeded.)

- Pointing them "downward" from your angle in the cockpit (while still maintaining visibility ahead) does not save our eyes. - This is where most people get it wrong, for alot of those lights they will only be comfortable to view if

A) they are pointed so far down that it would be impossible to see the glass lens of the light

B) they are turned down to the lowest setting possible. 


There are exceptions in many cases, but this is the most common I find to Why people leave them blindingly bright while acknowledging your presence.


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## Racing roadkill (4 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4983573, member: 9609"]do you know what make they are and do they come in red. 

Seriously - I would quite like something that would stand out on a summers day that I could switch on when going under the shade of trees - need something to grab the attention of a motorist wearing sunglasses that has just come out of bright sunshine.[/QUOTE]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...bike+light&dpPl=1&dpID=51UE-siGS4L&ref=plSrch


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## Drago (4 Oct 2017)

Strange. This annual thread doesn't normally appear until the 6th October.

Standard replies:

Point them at the ground.

Put a strip of tape over the upper quadrant.

Spend £2 on a decent lens.

People with expensive lights also aim them inappropriately, and being expensive and from Yorkshire (albeit via Taiwan) doesn't make it any less painful.

What about the car drivers who don't dip/have badly aimed headlamps?

I think that covers all the bases.


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## gavroche (4 Oct 2017)

Lights for bicycles? Whatever next? One should never use a bicycle in the dark, far too dangerous.


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

The thing is, 600-900 lumens is plenty bright for riding on darkened lanes. I know. I ride very early in the morning, typically going out at 4:30am and so in winter ride in darkness every day. There is no valid reason, unless you are in a 24-hour MBT race in rough country, for these lights with thousands of lumens. It’s nuts. And dangerous to other riders/drivers.


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Why the casual assumption that the lights are Chinese? Or are European/US made lights somehow magically made, so that they’re always ‘just right’ and aimed correctly?


A great percentage of them are in fact Chinese, and cheaply made - hence their popularity - but you are correct that the point of origin shouldn't be an issue. Lupine, a German manufacturer, make a light with 5000 lumens which is the brightest most blinding bike light I know of.


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## 400bhp (4 Oct 2017)

It’s annoying but way down the spectrum of annoyances when out cycling.

Let’s not make this a bigger issue than it actually is.


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## lazybloke (4 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> . Lupine, a German manufacturer, make a light with 5000 lumens which is the brightest most blinding bike light I know of.



An arms race?
I've got a 600 which is plenty enough for pitch black night riding, on or off road. And that stays on 'low' most of the time.

Apart from anything else, 5000 lumens would eat batteries.


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

lazybloke said:


> An arms race?
> I've got a 600 which is plenty enough for pitch black night riding, on or off road. And that stays on 'low' most of the time.
> 
> Apart from anything else, 5000 lumens would eat batteries.


That particular Lupine light - extremely expensive - comes with a large bottle battery that can last for hours...


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## Johnno260 (4 Oct 2017)

I currently use a Lezyne 800xl, beam spread seems ok, I would never go past 800 lumens and I hardly ever use the full beam.


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

You could be riding close to the sea on a dark night when someone gets dragged out to sea by the current.
Your amazing light picks out the casualty struggling in the water the lifeboat gets too them just in time to make a really good utube video.
Other than that I cant see any point in lights over about 600 to 800 lumens.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Oct 2017)

Lightgeddon is early this year, won't be long until the "I saw a cyclist with no lighs/craplights/tealights" thread


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## jarlrmai (4 Oct 2017)

Surely starting 2 threads about one about lack of and one about too much light is trolling?


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

I was riding last night when I saw someone with no lights.This is terrible he also wasn't wearing a helmet plus horror of horrors chain was dirty..


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> I was riding last night when I saw someone with no lights.This is terrible he also wasn't wearing a helmet plus horror of horrors chain was dirty..


I _didn't_ see anybody riding with no lights. If that doesn't prove how careless some people are I don't know what does...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Oct 2017)

User said:


> We've already had it (started by the same OP)


I shall retrieve my coat and exit promptly


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

It was very lucky I had my Sunrise 4000 front light on full or I wouldn't have noticed the dirty chain.


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## simongt (4 Oct 2017)

On a couple of occasions in the past, I've politely observed on the excessive brightness / badly adjusted front lights and both times I've been told to 'f**k off'.
So is there any point in this discussion anyway - ?


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

simongt said:


> On a couple of occasions in the past, I've politely observed on the excessive brightness / badly adjusted front lights and both times I've been told to 'f**k off'.
> So is there any point in this discussion anyway - ?


Not beyond a good old fashioned airing of grievances...


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

simongt said:


> On a couple of occasions in the past, I've politely observed on the excessive brightness / badly adjusted front lights and both times I've been told to 'f**k off'.
> So is there any point in this discussion anyway - ?



Probably says something about the type of person who would want a football stadium flood light on their handlebars.


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## hoopdriver (4 Oct 2017)

The Kim Jong Uns of the cycling world...


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> The Kim Jong Uns of the cycling world...



Does Trump of the cycling world,trump that???


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## Threevok (4 Oct 2017)

Sorry guys, but I must confess - I have two Solar-storm 3 lights on the GT at the moment. 

Although I only have one on at a time on the road section of my commute, at the lowest setting and pointed mostly at the floor.

For the off road section however, I microwave anything in my path - moths, rabbits, bats, ninja dog walkers.....


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

Are you talking off road, little used mountain path or well used shared footpath/cycleway like the Clyne Valley path?
If its the former then fair enough.


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## HLaB (4 Oct 2017)

Ah well at least there not ninja's


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## Threevok (4 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> Are you talking off road, little used mountain path or well used shared footpath/cycleway like the Clyne Valley path?
> If its the former then fair enough.



It's a (section of ) national cycle route 464. I will dip the lights once I see someone in front of me, but I have no choice (most of the time) than to keep them on at full, as it's not only littered with dog mess, but dog owners with loose dogs - neither of which have any high viz or common sense to speak of.


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## Banjo (4 Oct 2017)

I can spot a walker a dog or a pile of poo quite well with an izone 600 on half power without burning anyones eyeballs.

I do understand your frustration at the idiotic ones wobbling all over the path though.


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## Threevok (4 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> I can spot a walker a dog or a pile of poo quite well with an izone 600 on half power without burning anyones eyeballs.



Very difficult here. the entire route is virtually a tunnel of trees, and the path is pretty much covered in leaves - so much so that it's hard to see the edges of that path - let alone the poo on it.


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## potsy (4 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Too dark, too bright. There just ain't no pleasing some people.


If I dress all in black and have my Chinese burner full on, do they cancel each other out?


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## Tim Hall (4 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I _didn't_ see anybody riding with no lights. If that doesn't prove how careless some people are I don't know what does...





User said:


> Deep.


If a man crashes his mountain bike into a tree because he didn't see it, does his swearing make any noise?


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## steveindenmark (4 Oct 2017)

I would think that there are a lot of riders who fasten the lights on their bikes and never walk to the front or back to see what they look like to other road users.


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## Threevok (4 Oct 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> If a man crashes his mountain bike into a tree because he didn't see it, does his swearing make any noise?



If he has a cheap camera instead of a GoPro probably not


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## Gravity Aided (4 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> I was riding last night when I saw someone with no lights.This is terrible he also wasn't wearing a helmet plus horror of horrors chain was dirty..


I hope you informed the Sheriff Substitute.


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## jarlrmai (4 Oct 2017)

That's just missing the mobile phone with Facebook chat.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Oct 2017)

What has China got to do with it? I have over bright lights from most continents in my shed.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> The thing is, 600-900 lumens is plenty bright for riding on darkened lanes. I know. I ride very early in the morning, typically going out at 4:30am and so in winter ride in darkness every day. There is no valid reason, unless you are in a 24-hour MBT race in rough country, for these lights with thousands of lumens. It’s nuts. And dangerous to other riders/drivers.


I disagree to an extent. 900 may be enough at the speeds you and I ride at with a decent focussed lens. For others, riding very much faster perhaps, with unfocussed lights not intended for road use, lumen escalation is easiest answer.


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## numbnuts (4 Oct 2017)

steveindenmark said:


> I would think that there are a lot of riders who fasten the lights on their bikes and never walk to the front or back to see what they look like to other road users.


As soon as I put a new lights on bike/trike I walk about 30M away to see what they are like during day as well as night


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## Racing roadkill (4 Oct 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> What has China got to do with it?



The cheap ones are usually manufactured in China.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> The cheap ones are usually manufactured in China.


Most of my stupidly bright non-road legal (in Germany) lights are expensive and not of Chinese origin.

Point taken, thobut.


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## GilesM (4 Oct 2017)

I love the super bright lights (although none of mine are Chinese), they're fantastic, I can remember the days of the Ever Ready and Pifco ones, they weren't fantastic. I had a bus driver flashing his lights at me a few nights ago, it certainly beats a SMIDSY, although I do try to shield the light or switch to the lower settings if there is stuff coming towards me.


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## double0jedi (4 Oct 2017)

Raveman seem to do very bright lights that have a remote switch with a "dip" beam. This would seem to be a spiffing idea. Anyone have any experience of these?


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## Threevok (4 Oct 2017)

double0jedi said:


> Raveman seem to do very bright lights that have a remote switch with a "dip" beam. This would seem to be a spiffing idea. Anyone have any experience of these?



I have a set of Cat Eye ABS ones in the house with a remote switch. I had them so long I had to buy a replacement switch off fleebay as I wore the other out

Nice lights although only 30w of power (one 20w and one 10w) all the switch did was turn the brighter wide beam one on/off

I still have them but I need a replacement charger and batteries - not cheap


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## Drago (4 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> The cheap ones are usually manufactured in China.



As are a lot of the expensive ones. Few are actually manufactured from scratch other than in the Far East.


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## Lonestar (4 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4983573, member: 9609"]do you know what make they are and do they come in red.

Seriously - I would quite like something that would stand out on a summers day that I could switch on when going under the shade of trees - need something to grab the attention of a motorist wearing sunglasses that has just come out of bright sunshine.[/QUOTE]

Yup I need really bright lights to catch the attention of a motorist that has just done a line of crack cocaine.


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## Bollo (4 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4984320, member: 9609"]I could have done with a sidewinder this afternoon to set off after a phone fiddling audi driver who did not offer a wave of thanks after I stopped to let him past on a single track.[/QUOTE]
Paging @ianrauk!


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## KnackeredBike (4 Oct 2017)

Literally the only people I have ever heard complain lights are too bright are on here, and the solution seems to be to import some expensive German ones.

On the road you are competing with a rubbish song on the radio, a text message, misaligned xenon headlights, some nob driving on side and foglights, cataracts. All traveling at 60mph.

Much better "bloody hell that was a bit bright" than distraction distraction distraction SMASH.

And you have to do that hundreds of times every journey without getting it wrong once.


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## Randy Butternubs (4 Oct 2017)

KnackeredBike said:


> Literally the only people I have ever heard complain lights are too bright are on here, and the solution seems to be to import some expensive German ones.
> 
> On the road you are competing with a rubbish song on the radio, a text message, misaligned xenon headlights, some nob driving on side and foglights, cataracts. All traveling at 60mph.
> 
> ...



I'm not super fond of being made temporarily blind while operating a vehicle. It's more than a small nuisance if it happens on the road.

I understand that people tend to buy what is easily available and that a large part of the blame lies with our shoddy lighting regs and what manufacturers make available in Britain. One should not have to order lights from a different country to get something decent.

Equally though it displays a spectacular lack of awareness not to realise that when you shine a bright light in people's eyes they cannot see and do not like it. I live near the Tarka trail and pass a fair number of bicycles in winter. Not once in several years has anyone angled their light down as they passed. And it isn't "a bit bright"; it's often worse than xenon car lights on high-beam. And that's goes double for those that set their lights to flash. Fortunately since this is off-road *is* just annoying rather than dangerous.


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## Randy Butternubs (4 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Indeed so. I just tend to find that the perpetrator of most dazzlings is the driver of a car.



So do I, but then I probably encounter 1000 cars for every bicycle at night. A small but significant proportion of drivers need to readjust their headlights or be quicker with the low-beams. For bicycles its 100% of them and they are almost all the most dazzling.


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## oldstrath (5 Oct 2017)

A question and a comment for the road specific light enthusiasts. The question: my favourite offroad trails , for which I do need bright off road lights, are about 5 miles away on the road - do you really expect me to run two different lights?
The comment - my commuting bike has a BuMM Ixon which is usually fine. But sometimes, last night for example, a driver pulls out from a house entrance in a fashion that suggests they saw nothing of me. Always leaves me wondering if they'd have seen my Maxxd shining at them, and tempts me to go back simply to running the most antisocial light I can find.


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## hoopdriver (5 Oct 2017)

My guess is they saw you and just didn’t give a damn or else made the all too frequent assumption that since you were in a bicycle you couldn’t possibly be going more than 8mph or sme such. In neither case would a brighter light have altered anything. They’d have pulled out regardless.

And how often do you go off-road riding at night? And in any event, it is not unreasonable to expect even a fairly modestly priced light to have multiple beam settings so you could use an appropriate one for the road, them amp it up when you reached your trail.


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## oldstrath (5 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> My guess is they saw you and just didn’t give a damn or else made the all too frequent assumption that since you were in a bicycle you couldn’t possibly be going more than 8mph or sme such. In neither case would a brighter light have altered anything. They’d have pulled out regardless.


Actually I think this one genuinely didn't see me, quite possibly because she wasn't looking properly. But the look on her face when did become aware of my presence was quite something.



> And how often do you go off-road riding at night? And in any event, it is not unreasonable to expect even a fairly modestly priced light to have multiple beam settings so you could use an appropriate one for the road, them amp it up when you reached your trail.


Two or three times a week in winter. Yes, of course i can and do run lower power, but i thought the whole point of the "road legal beam" argument was that unshaped "unsuitable" lights were terrible things of Satan, even at lower power levels?


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## Lonestar (5 Oct 2017)

I encounter dazzling bike lights on the CS 3 but rather that than some idiot ninja cyclist or pedestrian or car with faulty light's as per usual.


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## Bodhbh (5 Oct 2017)

KnackeredBike said:


> Literally the only people I have ever heard complain lights are too bright are on here, and the solution seems to be to import some expensive German ones...
> 
> Much better "bloody hell that was a bit bright" than distraction distraction distraction SMASH.



The thing is most people aren't going to tell you directly, apart from the odd guy flashing their lights back. But in the past I have been told directly, as well as been blinded by other people myself, so it's not much of a jump to assume overly bright lights or lights with inappropriate optics blind people.

Regarding SMIDSYs, people just have brain farts whatever. I had an off when someguy pulled in front of me - AyUps (600lumen) lights shining right in his bloody face. Maybe the lights were a hinderance - he couldn't judge speed or distance - but they certainly didn't help much. Not that I'm saying the other extreme is great either.


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## Lonestar (5 Oct 2017)

Strange.I don't really have a problem with SMIDSY's. (touch wood)

I can see the cogs whirring round when they are thinking whether they should pull out from a side turning,though.


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## Colin_P (5 Oct 2017)

Has anyone mentioned the obvious solution ?

Sunglasses at night


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LTL8KgKv8


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## Mugshot (5 Oct 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> In neither case would a brighter light have altered anything


I disagree, I run a bright front light, the type the OP despises funnily enough, which I check from the front to make sure I'm not dazzling and have angled down and slightly to the left. There is without question a stark difference in the behaviour of other road users when I'm riding at night running a bright light to how people react during the day. Motorists will wait at junctions and at passing points on single tracks where they generally wont in the daylight, they do not know what is coming towards them, it could be a motorbike or even a car with a headlight out, the difference is very noticable. There is no assumption that I am a push bike doing 8mph. It's also the reason I never run a flashing light on the front, nothing screams cyclist louder than a flashing front light.


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## Lonestar (5 Oct 2017)

During the day on the return commute in the drizzle or overcast I run two flashers but during the night I run on steady and one flasher.


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## mjr (5 Oct 2017)

Mugshot said:


> I disagree, I run a bright front light, the type the OP despises funnily enough, which I check from the front to make sure I'm not dazzling and have angled down and slightly to the left. There is without question a stark difference in the behaviour of other road users when I'm riding at night running a bright light to how people react during the day. Motorists will wait at junctions and at passing points on single tracks where they generally wont in the daylight, they do not know what is coming towards them, it could be a motorbike or even a car with a headlight out, the difference is very noticable. There is no assumption that I am a push bike doing 8mph.


I did the maths a while ago (possibly in a post on here) and I don't think it's possible to aim a Chinese boil down enough not to dazzle oncoming traffic without it being pointed something like 2m ahead of the wheel and I've never seen one used like that. So, I feel it's more likely that the motorists waiting are simply obeying http://highwaycode.info/rule/115 - "slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights". Unfortunately, you can encounter a bad driver who doesn't slow/stop when dazzled - forums are littered with reports of cyclists being knocked off when using bright lights. Ride so you don't trust anyone any more than you feel you must - always be ready with an emergency stop or turn. The reason why unlit cycling is only a factor in under 3% of collisions, despite all the ninjas, may be that most of them ride expecting not to be seen.



Mugshot said:


> It's also the reason I never run a flashing light on the front, nothing screams cyclist louder than a flashing front light.


I agree with that one - I feel it means that even if they do see you, some drivers will dismiss you as not a serious threat to their Precious and take a chance. It seems better to keep them guessing about whether you might be a small moped as long as possible, until the pedal reflectors blink into view... which they won't if their headlights aren't pointing at you.


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## Drago (5 Oct 2017)

I've experimented with Chinese lights and an observer and on 2 different sets it was perfectly achievable.


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## mjr (5 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> I've experimented with Chinese lights and an observer and on 2 different sets it was perfectly achievable.


And how far ahead of the bike was the beam centre? Was the observer standing or sitting fairly low down like a typical car driver?


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## Drago (5 Oct 2017)

Observer was in a car. I don't recall exactly how far ahead the beam pooled on the ground but it was completely satisfactory.

I did further experiments with a bit of tape over the top 1/4" of the lens, and that worked as well.

But despite all that plenty of people with lights from other sources aim them inappropriately too. Its user error, not a plot by the Chinese to blind the western imperialists and steal their country.


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## Mugshot (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I did the maths a while ago (possibly in a post on here) and I don't think it's possible to aim a Chinese boil down enough not to dazzle oncoming traffic without it being pointed something like 2m ahead of the wheel and I've never seen one used like that. So, I feel it's more likely that the motorists waiting are simply obeying http://highwaycode.info/rule/115 - "slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights". Unfortunately, you can encounter a bad driver who doesn't slow/stop when dazzled - forums are littered with reports of cyclists being knocked off when using bright lights. Ride so you don't trust anyone any more than you feel you must - always be ready with an emergency stop or turn. The reason why unlit cycling is only a factor in under 3% of collisions, despite all the ninjas, may be that most of them ride expecting not to be seen.


I'm going to disagree again, it's perfectly feasible to use a bunny boiler in a manner which lights the way and doesn't dazzle. It's very easy to adjust them when on the move too, interestingly all the ones I've owned seem to settle into one of two positions very readily. I will run my light positioned to light further forward when on my local shared use until I meet someone then I will usually shield it, I will use it pointing further down when on the road. I have on very rare occasions been flashed by oncoming vehicles but that has only ever happened when I haven't adjusted my light from it's "path" setting, I have never been flashed when I've had it "dipped". Also moving it from "dipped" to "full" will in 100% of cases get oncoming drivers to dip their lights if they have forgotten. I always ride with the expectation of someone doing something I don't want them to, but I can assure you that the difference in driver behaviour when I use one of these lights compared to Hope or Cateye or Smart or any of the myriad of other other brands I have owned is extraordinary. I also know very well that they dazzle having encountered them on road and path when they are being used by inconsiderate cyclists, but like red light jumpers they don't define me. In all honesty I would struggle to think of anything that has come along in my time cycling that has had a more positive effect on my safety at night than this style of light.


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## Tin Pot (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> Why must people use front lights which you could spot from the I.S.S. on their bikes? If they must, shouldn't there be a law that says that a bicycle front light, must be adjusted, for beam angle, as is required for motor vehicles?



I'd like to take that CREE crap off the front of their bike and stove their face in with it.


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## mjr (5 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> But despite all that plenty of people with lights from other sources aim them inappropriately too. Its user error, not a plot by the Chinese to blind the western imperialists and steal their country.


Of course, but it is far more common with the Chinese boils - I suspect it's somewhere over 99% dazzling. It's a design flaw that they are very easy to use dangerously badly. Good legal lights are easier to use correctly than not because if you point them up high enough to dazzle many then the beam centre is usually too far up the road to see where you're going properly.


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## mjr (5 Oct 2017)

Mugshot said:


> I will run my light positioned to light further forward when on my local shared use until I meet someone then I will usually shield it, I will use it pointing further down when on the road.


It sounds like you only dip it after you've dazzled others on the shared use 



Mugshot said:


> Also moving it from "dipped" to "full" will in 100% of cases get oncoming drivers to dip their lights if they have forgotten.


I don't doubt it - even flicking the power supply switch on my dipped dynamo light (dropping it to standlight momentarily) or even waving my hand in front of a battery light gets 95+% of dazzling drivers to dip. I'm sure dazzling them by return gets the remaining few, like mutually assured destruction. It's similar to a motorist blinking their main beam on instead of blinking the dip beam off - a bit antisocial.



Mugshot said:


> ...one of these lights compared to Hope or Cateye or Smart or any of the miriad of other other brands I have owned is extraordianary.


I'm sure. With the exception of a few Cateyes which aren't sold widely in the UK, those are all shoot. Like I wrote earlier, that's the state of the UK lighting market, full of shoot because cyclists keep buying shoot (and in some cases not even cheap shoot) instead of stuff like B+M.



Mugshot said:


> I also know very well that they dazzle having encountered them on road and path when they are being used by inconsiderate cyclists, but like red light jumpers they don't define me.


Yes and one day I might even encounter one being used without dazzling...


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## Tin Pot (5 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> ...not a plot by the Chinese to blind the western imperialists and steal their country.



Hmm, you say that...


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## Mugshot (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> It sounds like you only dip it after you've dazzled others on the shared use


No, as I said I don't dip I shield, as in I cover my light so that only enough light is escaping for me to see the edge of the path and it is done as soon as I spot them, which is an awfully long way off because my lights are awesome. However, if they don't show me the same courtesy then I stop shielding, hence the usually. 


mjr said:


> I don't doubt it - even flicking the power supply switch on my dipped dynamo light (dropping it to standlight momentarily) or even waving my hand in front of a battery light gets 95+% of dazzling drivers to dip. I'm sure dazzling them by return gets the remaining few, like mutually assured destruction. It's similar to a motorist blinking their main beam on instead of blinking the dip beam off - a bit antisocial.


No more antisocial than driving around on full beam.


mjr said:


> I'm sure. With the exception of a few Cateyes which aren't sold widely in the UK, those are all shoot. Like I wrote earlier, that's the state of the UK lighting market, full of shoot because cyclists keep buying shoot (and in some cases not even cheap shoot) instead of stuff like B+M.


Really? All shoot? Have a look around on here and see what high regard Hope are held in. They may not be your favourites but saying they're shoot is total bollocks.


mjr said:


> Yes and one day I might even encounter one being used without dazzling...


Come ride with me, or at me, whatever.


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## oldstrath (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I did the maths a while ago (possibly in a post on here) and I don't think it's possible to aim a Chinese boil down enough not to dazzle oncoming traffic without it being pointed something like 2m ahead of the wheel and I've never seen one used like that. So, I feel it's more likely that the motorists waiting are simply obeying http://highwaycode.info/rule/115 - "slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights". Unfortunately, you can encounter a bad driver who doesn't slow/stop when dazzled - forums are littered with reports of cyclists being knocked off when using bright lights. Ride so you don't trust anyone any more than you feel you must - always be ready with an emergency stop or turn. The reason why unlit cycling is only a factor in under 3% of collisions, despite all the ninjas, may be that most of them ride expecting not to be seen.
> .


Thank you for the lesson. Having survived 45 years of cycling without any significant crashes that weren't my fault I do know about defensive riding. I just prefer not having to brake test on the way home if possible.


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## KnackeredBike (5 Oct 2017)

Randy Butternubs said:


> And it isn't "a bit bright"; it's often worse than xenon car lights on high-beam.









Try standing in front of xenon headlights on full beam and ask yourself, "Is this less bright than a £5 light from China".

It's just not. Never. Just... no.


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## mjr (5 Oct 2017)

Mugshot said:


> Have a look around on here and see what high regard Hope are held in. They may not be your favourites but saying they're shoot is total bollocks.


I've seen the Hope lights and I know they're held in mystifyingly high regard but I wouldn't buy one for road use. Maybe I'd like them better for MTB if I did that much. You can do better for less.


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## Mugshot (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> You can do better for less.


Well we certainly agree on that!!


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## Lonestar (5 Oct 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> I'd like to take that CREE crap off the front of their bike and stove their face in with it.



I'd feel the same about invisible cyclists and pedestrians.

Though with pedestrians they are probably more unaware they are invisible during the night (then again so are some of the cyclists) and cross like they generally do during the daytime...without looking properly.

Not that I condone violence to them anyway.It's just a figure of speech nicked off of you.


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## Jody (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I did the maths a while ago (possibly in a post on here) and I don't think it's possible to aim a Chinese boil down enough not to dazzle oncoming traffic without it being pointed something like 2m ahead of the wheel and I've never seen one used like that. .



That's about where I run mine if on the main roads. Usually allows you to see about 10-15 feet in front of the hotspot. Basically the hot spot just glances the top of the front tyre.


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## GilesM (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I've seen the Hope lights and I know they're held in *mystifyingly* high regard but I wouldn't buy one for road use. Maybe I'd like them better for MTB if I did that much. You can do better for less.



No mystery, they are just good, you can turn them to the lower settings, which are fine for most road riding, up the power a wee bit for dark descents, and then full power for more technical off road stuff.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Oct 2017)

A typical Xenon HID car headlight has about 3200 Lumens.






A cheapo Cree boiler puts out 5700 Lumens, on full whack. That's 56 % brighter.


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## Mugshot (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> A typical Xenon HID car headlight has about 3200 Lumens.
> 
> View attachment 377066
> 
> ...


Have you tested one or are you believing what they tell you on ebay?


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## AndyRM (5 Oct 2017)

Is boil/boiler part of the swear filter?!


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## Jody (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> A typical Xenon HID car headlight has about 3200 Lumens.
> 
> View attachment 377066
> 
> ...



Absolute b#llocks


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## GilesM (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> A typical Xenon HID car headlight has about 3200 Lumens.
> 
> View attachment 377066
> 
> ...



Sounds like a load of old horseshite, the measured output of Hope's top of the range 8 LED light is 3000 Lumens, perhaps, as already alluded to, there maybe some dodgy advertising somewhere.


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## oldstrath (5 Oct 2017)

Where do I go to buy a cheap light that *really* puts out 5000 lumens?


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## Drago (5 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Of course, but it is far more common with the Chinese boils - I suspect it's somewhere over 99% dazzling. It's a design flaw that they are very easy to use dangerously badly. Good legal lights are easier to use correctly than not because if you point them up high enough to dazzle many then the beam centre is usually too far up the road to see where you're going properly.



Having done the physical experiments myself (I used to cycle home on days in the dark just as my Step daughter was driving the other way to go to work, so I'd get daily reports on the blindingness or otehrwise) I have come to the conclusion that it is perfectly simple not to dazzle with the Chinese lights. 

I have yet to see any empirical date at suggests Chinese lights are more blinding out on the road, but if we assume that is the case then combined with my own practical experimenting (using a human observe in a car and a sharpie to mark the position of the lamp) then the logical conclusion is that the people who buy cheap chinese lights are the sort who take elss care with thei positioning, not that they are physically more inherent to dazzle.

As things stand this entire discussion is a chimaera based upon an assumption, and there is no data that cheap lights of chinese manufacture are any more likely more to dazzle.


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## Threevok (5 Oct 2017)

oldstrath said:


> Where do I go to buy a cheap light that *really* puts out 5000 lumens?



Probably nowhere 

I seriously doubt that my two Solarstorm X3 combined come anywhere near the 6300 lumens quoted for each

I did see a Solarstorm X10 on ebay once - it was huge. they don't seem to sell them no more though


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## Racing roadkill (5 Oct 2017)

oldstrath said:


> Where do I go to buy a cheap light that *really* puts out 5000 lumens?



This claims 5200 at full whack.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...cle+lights&dpPl=1&dpID=51UE-siGS4L&ref=plSrch


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## AndyRM (5 Oct 2017)

"Claims" is the key word. For all these lights.


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## subaqua (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> This claims 5200 at full whack.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...cle+lights&dpPl=1&dpID=51UE-siGS4L&ref=plSrch




Mine arrived and there is no way it is 5200 Lumens. 

the compliance team in work will get it to play with and give me a figure within a week I hope. 

after that its the light for riding through Victoria park at 5am


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## huwsparky (5 Oct 2017)

I have a moon xp1500 which is 1500 lumen (advertised). A mate of mine bought a 4800 lumen (advertised) Chinese jobbie. We came to the conclusion that the claimed 4800 lumen Chinese affair was roughly the same as mine on the 1000 lumen setting on max. I'd take the claims with a pinch of salt.


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## the_mikey (5 Oct 2017)

Have just ordered a Ravemen PR1200, not because it can output 1200 lumens of retina searing light, but because it allegedly has a 'friendly' beam option and a long runtime when using lower brightness settings. will find out when it arrives...


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## BalkanExpress (5 Oct 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> This claims 5200 at full whack.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...cle+lights&dpPl=1&dpID=51UE-siGS4L&ref=plSrch



And I’ll raise you another 4800  If it we’re true it could cut a car in half

https://www.amazon.co.uk/10000LM-Mo...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GWYQ3XFQBC4MJZ91HG1N


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## oldstrath (5 Oct 2017)

BalkanExpress said:


> And I’ll raise you another 4800  If it we’re true it could cut a car in half
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/10000LM-Mo...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GWYQ3XFQBC4MJZ91HG1N



Course we can outshine the sun
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tonsee-300...s&pd_rd_r=BNKPV4BYGYWY37XGFHH2&_encoding=UTF8


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## the_mikey (5 Oct 2017)

oldstrath said:


> Course we can outshine the sun
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tonsee-300...s&pd_rd_r=BNKPV4BYGYWY37XGFHH2&_encoding=UTF8



Reading the reviews it seems people are actually trying to use it for cycling...


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## classic33 (5 Oct 2017)

the_mikey said:


> Reading the reviews it seems people are actually trying to use it for cycling...


Battery life isn't great though.


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## BalkanExpress (5 Oct 2017)

oldstrath said:


> Course we can outshine the sun
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tonsee-300...s&pd_rd_r=BNKPV4BYGYWY37XGFHH2&_encoding=UTF8



Fold


(Starts bleeding from eye)


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## Seevio (5 Oct 2017)

Strictly speaking it's about flashlights, but the same principle applies...
https://xkcd.com/1603/


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## freiston (5 Oct 2017)

The following is with regards to road use.
I've used a supposedly bike-specific Fenix front light (iirc, rated at 750 lumens) which in my experience was a poor front light.

Even when I fitted a long visor to it, I couldn't point it forward enough to give good navigational light without dazzling oncoming traffic (and I do test my lights for this at standing and sitting eye-levels).
Pointed down enough and the light lit up the immediate road so brightly that it was bright enough to reduce my 'night-vision' when looking elsewhere (including dead ahead) to something similar to what it is like when first going from indoors (with the light on).
If I turned the brightness down then I might as well have used a low-powered headlamp more for being seen by.
I've seen the lights discussed here and on no account would I consider them to be any better than the Fenix.

I switched to a B+M dynamo headlight (iirc, rated at 80 lux) and the difference is phenomenal; it throws a very useful beam which is far better for navigating with than the Fenix.
To other road users, it appears similar to a bright but not dazzling moped light - my nephew said that speed and noise aside, he thought it looked like a motorbike approaching.
If I go off-road, I sometimes mount a 1000 lumen handtorch to my handlebars but this is not necessary for road use.
Off-road, the handtorch's biggest benefit to me (over the dynamo light) is for making sure I'm aiming for the right exit point of the field.


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## the_mikey (6 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Battery life isn't great though.





Amazon Customer said:


> Battery Pack is 8.4V 15000mAh lasts around 2 hours depending on outside temp



15Ah battery completely rinsed in 2 hours on a bicycle light.. wow


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## classic33 (6 Oct 2017)

the_mikey said:


> 15Ah battery completely rinsed in 2 hours on a bicycle light.. wow


I'd need at least two batteries. I'm thinking of getting one though, mounted at below knee height it's bound to get me seen!


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## MiK1138 (6 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> I was riding last night when I saw someone with no lights.This is terrible he also wasn't wearing a helmet plus horror of horrors chain was dirty..


as long as his chain wasn't slack hes all good


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## mr_s81 (20 Oct 2017)

the_mikey said:


> Have just ordered a Ravemen PR1200, not because it can output 1200 lumens of retina searing light, but because it allegedly has a 'friendly' beam option and a long runtime when using lower brightness settings. will find out when it arrives...



Looking at this light myself. What's the verdict @the_mikey ?


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## glasgowcyclist (20 Oct 2017)

Mugshot said:


> It's also the reason I never run a flashing light on the front, nothing screams cyclist louder than a flashing front light.



I'm with you there, except when filtering in poor conditions when I use it to catch the eye of stationary drivers as I move forward.


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## Mugshot (20 Oct 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm with you there, except when filtering in poor conditions when I use it to catch the eye of stationary drivers as I move forward.


I had a little think about my comment and not wanting to advertise I'm a cyclist is not the only reason I don't run a flashing front light. I quite often use a shared use path which is well away from roads and through little woods and across fields etc, it's pitch black in the winter and it's also usually deserted but I do occasionally see other cyclists and it's not unusual for them to have their front lights flashing, how do they see anything? It must be so damn annoying, it's makes less than no sense to me.


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## Threevok (20 Oct 2017)

I have a front flasher (Gnog) on the front, between the two normal lights.

I did have it to one side of the bar, but motorists seemed to perceive it as an indicator, sometimes with near dire consequences


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## glasgowcyclist (20 Oct 2017)

Mugshot said:


> I had a little think about my comment and not wanting to advertise I'm a cyclist is not the only reason I don't run a flashing front light. I quite often use a shared use path which is well away from roads and through little woods and across fields etc, it's pitch black in the winter and it's also usually deserted but I do occasionally see other cyclists and it's not unusual for them to have their front lights flashing, how do they see anything? It must be so damn annoying, it's makes less than no sense to me.




I use mine only briefly, once I'm no longer filtering I switch it off. (It's one of the small COB lights from Aldi.)
There's a couple of riders on my commute who use dazzling, fast strobes pointed level which totally screw up my vision and I had one draft me for a bit until I told him to get lost as his pulsing light was messing up my vision. How people can ride with these I'll never know.


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## Low Gear Guy (20 Oct 2017)

Walking home last night I was passed by a cyclist who had a rear facing white light at the end of his handlebars.
Anyone else seen this?


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## Threevok (20 Oct 2017)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Walking home last night I was passed by a cyclist who had a rear facing white light at the end of his handlebars.
> Anyone else seen this?



Not white, no. I've seen Red (and even yellow/orange) on road bikes


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## mjr (20 Oct 2017)

Threevok said:


> Not white, no. I've seen Red (and even yellow/orange) on road bikes


New one on Tuesday was someone riding towards us up route 1 with a red/white alternating light on the front of their hybrid. Who is selling these things and do they have any legitimate use besides battery-powered Christmas tree lights?!?

Edited to add: another new one was a white steady light strapped to the rider's arm and a red steady light on their backpack. Both with diffuse lenses so the bad aim didn't actually matter but still


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## Threevok (20 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> New one on Tuesday was someone riding towards us up route 1 with a red/white alternating light on the front of their hybrid. Who is selling these things and do they have any legitimate use besides battery-powered Christmas tree lights?!?
> 
> Edited to add: another new one was a white steady light strapped to the rider's arm and a red steady light on their backpack. Both with diffuse lenses so the bad aim didn't actually matter but still



This perhaps ?

https://www.nightprovision.com/products/hyperactive-2-color-led-bike-light-duo-120-red-white-strobe


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## glasgowcyclist (20 Oct 2017)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Walking home last night I was passed by a cyclist who had a rear facing white light at the end of his handlebars.
> Anyone else seen this?



Not since last winter when I saw two separate riders with white lights on the seatpost.


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## mjr (20 Oct 2017)

Threevok said:


> This perhaps ?
> 
> https://www.nightprovision.com/products/hyperactive-2-color-led-bike-light-duo-120-red-white-strobe


Smaller than that (maybe topeak redlite size), plus it was flipping 50% white and 50% red equal-time with no noticeable off time between.

I like the DUO-120's maker advertising "Rapid Alternating Of Colors From RED To WHITE Will Alert Every Driver Of Your Presence" - well yes, they'll be going WTF and I hope red/white mode would alert and attract the police too.


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