# time trialing on a turbo



## jifdave (2 Sep 2014)

I bought a turbo trainer a couple of days ago so tonight i thought id try and ride a quick 10 miles on it and see what i could do.

On the road ive done just over 28 mins on two different out and back courses they were both done around april time. 
On the turbo tonight i did 17:59. Usually i would guess a turbo would be quicker due to no wind resistance and no lumps at all but it shocked me how well i could hold a high cadence.
I'm a big lad so is it the case that the turbo can become my great equalizer as it doesnt really matter that im 19st?

has anyone else done a 10 on a turbo? if so what sort of times do people do?

http://www.strava.com/activities/188878101


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## Spoked Wheels (2 Sep 2014)

I have to say that I never ride trying to achieve a time, I just ride for the pleasure of it.

On the turbo I try to mix it as much as possible. I have 5 settings and I never spend more than a few minutes on one particular setting. I do it this way to make it more fun, otherwise I don't think I would stay on it long enough.

I did 20 miles in 1 hr amd 13 min the last time I used the turbo. I guess the time would go down considerably if I stay on setting 1 but I doubt I could stay long enough to do 20 miles


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## Herzog (2 Sep 2014)

I can do 10 miles on the turbo in about 10 minutes with the resistance off...


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## jifdave (2 Sep 2014)

so you can spin at around 60mph for 10 minutes solid?


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## Hip Priest (2 Sep 2014)

MPH is irrelevant on a turbo. The only thing you should be measuring is effort.


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## jowwy (2 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> so you can spin at around 60mph for 10 minutes solid?


Internet speed is x100 didn't you know


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## Spoked Wheels (2 Sep 2014)

Herzog said:


> I can do 10 miles on the turbo in about 10 minutes with the resistance off...


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## 400bhp (2 Sep 2014)

Man, there's some really stupid people on here.


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## fossyant (2 Sep 2014)

A turbo is for training, don't relate any of the speeds into real life. Use it for intervals and training if your leg has fallen off. Otherwise, go ride outside. Turbo's mess with your head. Other than @Rob3rt who does fantastic TT times from lots of VERY structured training on a Turbo. For everyone else, a turbo is good if injured and can't ride road. They mush your mind.


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## Asa Post (2 Sep 2014)

I've never tried to do an all-out 10, and I never enter races, so my times are just the best 10 mile segment which was part of a longer ride.

My best turbo time is 8 minutes faster than my best outdoor time.
The outdoor time ranks 149th on my all-time list.
Overall, my average turbo speed is 3mph higher than my outdoor average.


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## Joshua Plumtree (3 Sep 2014)

I reckon I could quite easily beat the 10 mile TT world record on a turbo trainer by not engaging the fly-wheel!


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## jifdave (3 Sep 2014)

To be fair I was on resistance 1 (of 10) on a tacx turbo. 

With no resistance I'm not sure i could spin fast enough to keep the speed up. I was spinning at 95-108rpm.


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## Rob3rt (3 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> I bought a turbo trainer a couple of days ago so tonight i thought id try and ride a quick 10 miles on it and see what i could do.
> 
> On the road ive done just over 28 mins on two different out and back courses they were both done around april time.
> On the turbo tonight i did 17:59. Usually i would guess a turbo would be quicker due to *no wind resistance and no lumps at all but it shocked me how well i could hold a high cadence.*
> ...



What do you think the resistance unit is supposed to be simulating? 

Ultimately you have the resistance set too low or the turbo you bought lacks resistance, this is fairly obvious from your cadence statement!


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## BSRU (3 Sep 2014)

If I tried to maintain +30mph on my CycleOps JetFluid Pro my legs would explode within a couple minutes, probably less.


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## jifdave (3 Sep 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> What do you think the resistance unit is supposed to be simulating?
> 
> Ultimately you have the resistance set too low or the turbo you bought lacks resistance, this is fairly obvious from your cadence statement!



it was more about getting sweaty and having a spin, was probably like running downhill but even so my hr was 163ave and peaked at 184bpm. 
As i said it was my first go on a turbo, i was on resistance 1 of 10 so there is plenty of scope to improve the training method.

@Rob3rt do you have any links to site that offer up good training methods?


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## Herzog (3 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> so you can spin at around 60mph for 10 minutes solid?


 
My point was (a facetious remark) turbo mph and distance vs real life mph and distance are totally different and pretty pointless comparing.

On the turbo I’m Alex Dowsett - on the road I’m more like Alex Higgins...


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## Supersuperleeds (3 Sep 2014)

Herzog said:


> My point was (a facetious remark) turbo mph and distance vs real life mph and distance are totally different and pretty pointless comparing.
> 
> On the turbo I’m Alex Dowsett - on the road I’m more like Alex Higgins...



I'm more of a Terry Griffith type rider, but ride slower than he plays/played


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## Mankul (4 Sep 2014)

you need a powermeter on the turbo bike to gauge and compare efforts on the road.


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## Rob3rt (4 Sep 2014)

Mankul said:


> you need a powermeter on the turbo bike to gauge and compare efforts on the road.



If you are like most people you will find even this comparison is not a good one!


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## oldroadman (4 Sep 2014)

Will to live, declining....


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## oldroadman (4 Sep 2014)

Just get out and ride the darn bike. Turbo fine when it's REALLY cold or snowing or heavy rain. Or with a broken clavicle. That is all.


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## Joshua Plumtree (5 Sep 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Will to live, declining....



Happens to us all as we get older. Think it must be the body's way of preparing us for the inevitable!!


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## Rob3rt (5 Sep 2014)

I ride for 10-12 hours a week including races, all riding is done on my TT bike and all none race riding is done on the turbo. 

I ride it for up to 3 hours at a time. Always with a purpose. 

After racing I often go on the turbo trainer for a while too either to warm down or if it was a club 10, to do some extra training efforts. 

Can't beat it for pure efficiency.


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## jifdave (5 Sep 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Will to live, declining....





oldroadman said:


> Just get out and ride the darn bike. Turbo fine when it's REALLY cold or snowing or heavy rain. Or with a broken clavicle. That is all.



im starting to find this forum less and less useful, as an 'old road man' you'd be willing to try and help a younger generation.

I knew there was a lot of snobbery towards cycle clothing but was unaware that you could be frowned upon for cycling in the wrong manner, i assumed the point of the forum was to be able to get informed and share ideas but instead it seems a place where people can try and dictate the exact form of cycling i should be doing.


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## BSRU (5 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> im starting to find this forum less and less useful, as an 'old road man' you'd be willing to try and help a younger generation.
> 
> I knew there was a lot of snobbery towards cycle clothing but was unaware that you could be frowned upon for cycling in the wrong manner, i assumed the point of the forum was to be able to get informed and share ideas but instead it seems a place where people can try and dictate the exact form of cycling i should be doing.


Doesn't bother me I always do what I fancy regardless of internet forum advice.
That's internet advice for you, take it or leave it or just ignore it.


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## jifdave (5 Sep 2014)

BSRU said:


> Doesn't bother me I always do what I fancy regardless of internet forum advice.
> That's internet advice for you, take it or leave it or just ignore it.


Oh me too... For the record I use sky kit too


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## Supersuperleeds (5 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> Oh me too... For the record I use sky kit too



Team kit when you aren't in the team is unforgivable


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## jowwy (5 Sep 2014)

ride how you want, train how you want, turbo when you want and defo wear what you want...............


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## Joshua Plumtree (5 Sep 2014)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Team kit when you aren't in the team is unforgivable



Says Bradley Wiggins!


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## BSRU (5 Sep 2014)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Says Bradley Wiggins!


He probably rides more miles than Brad


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## oldroadman (5 Sep 2014)

jifdave said:


> im starting to find this forum less and less useful, as an 'old road man' you'd be willing to try and help a younger generation.
> 
> I knew there was a lot of snobbery towards cycle clothing but was unaware that you could be frowned upon for cycling in the wrong manner, i assumed the point of the forum was to be able to get informed and share ideas but instead it seems a place where people can try and dictate the exact form of cycling i should be doing.



I'm doing what a forum is for, offering an opinion. You may choose to agree or disagree. Quite how "cycling in the wrong manner" comes into it I have no idea.
Wear what you want as well, if you wish to spend money on team kit for riding about why should anyone care? Unless someone offers free stuff or better still actually pays, then I prefer plain or club stuff. Just like I choose not to play turbo unless it's horrible outside, or as commented, for a warm up/down when it's required.


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## gds58 (10 Sep 2014)

oldroadman said:


> Will to live, declining....



Me too!! I don't think I have ever seen such a ridiculous and pointless thread. What a complete and utter load of nonsense! As mentioned by a few members, home trainers of any sort should be used for TRAINING and if used correctly they can be very good for very structured and precise training sessions but these should be as an addition to road miles. Training on a turbo is all about power output and how it is delivered NOT speed which can never be accurate.


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## jifdave (10 Sep 2014)

gds58 said:


> Me too!! I don't think I have ever seen such a ridiculous and pointless thread. What a complete and utter load of nonsense! As mentioned by a few members, home trainers of any sort should be used for TRAINING and if used correctly they can be very good for very structured and precise training sessions but these should be as an addition to road miles. Training on a turbo is all about power output and how it is delivered NOT speed which can never be accurate.


Why is it ridiculous? Silly me, I thought this would be a good place to ask questions from more experienced members, I didn't know so I asked, no need to be a tw@t about it. 
I've now started training by heart rate, which seems to be improving my on road speed, so is working. 

The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.


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## screenman (10 Sep 2014)

It is better to sound stupid for a minute than to remain ignorant for the rest of your life.


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## Asa Post (10 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> It is better to sound stupid for a minute than to remain ignorant for the rest of your life.


ignorant
ˈɪgn(ə)r(ə)nt/
adjective: *ignorant
1*. lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
*2*. discourteous or rude.

I see evidence of both meanings in this thread. One is understandable, the other is reprehensible.


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## Staffordshire Lad (10 Sep 2014)

Have a look at the 3LC DVDs. They'll give you a good workout on your turbo, jifdave. Also, the level of resistance will affect how fast you can go on your turbo. You've made a great investment in buying a turbo which will pay dividends if you train on it correctly. Good luck!


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## gds58 (11 Sep 2014)

I've now started[B said:


> training[/B] by heart rate, which seems to be improving my on road speed, so is working.


Then surely you have answered your own question with the above quoted comment. Turbo _Trainers _are for Training not racing. You also mentioned in your first post that you are a big lad and again answered your own question by saying that they take no account of rider weight. How can they! just like the fact that they cannot account for inclines, change of wind direction, change of road surface, riders poor position on the bike, loose flappy clothing catching the wind etc etc. If you want to do a Time Trial, enter one and do a proper one but leave the turbo trainer for your warm up and warm down and maybe some interval training in preparation.

Nobody is being rude or discourteous with their comments as this is a free and open forum so we are expressing our opinions which were invited by you. If you don't want other opinions then don't ask the question which you subsequently answered yourself anyway!


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## Trull (11 Sep 2014)

I've found my Cyclops Fluid 2 to be really useful - I hook it up to ANT+ sensors on the laptop running Tour De Giro to race other people and its fun. I also use Peri-Pedal alongside a Sufferfest video courtesy of Strava. Importantly I can monitor the heart rate which tells me I am blasting along - that's what is missing from the OP.


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## OnTheRivet (12 Jan 2015)

I'm new to this lark and claim no expert knowledge but I do know turbo's, rollers, spin bikes whatever are training tools and no substitute for the real thing. They are great if you use them correctly (so friends who are experienced riders tell me!) but I absolutely hate them. I would rather ride in freezing rain up a 15% gradient than spend more than 5 minutes on one. When I have sat on one (used one after surgery stopped me going outside) I managed over 35mph but that means absolutely nothing when you go back outside on the real deal.

Use them for training or for convalescing but otherwise make sure you do plenty outside instead


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## Booyaa (12 Jan 2015)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Team kit when you aren't in the team is unforgivable


 I am going to guess he wears replica team kit, to replicate being in the team rather than actually being on the team.


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## derrick (12 Jan 2015)

Intervals here, did this today. 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGGvKt8vWho&index=2&list=PLUdAMlZtaV12MsVWyWTPoFi4w2Tw8emwy


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## screenman (12 Jan 2015)

I have improved my 10 times on the turbo by putting the fan behind me rather than having it blowing into my face.

I also put 3 telephone books under the back of the turbo lifting the wheel up about 3 inches, I left the front on the floor, this means my turbo rides are all downhill.


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## Hip Priest (13 Jan 2015)

If you want to improve your TT times with the use of a turbo, then get on it and ride at lactate threshold for an hour. And ignore the stuff about turbos being for bad weather. Some of the best TT riders I know spend several hours a week training on their turbo, come rain or shine.


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## oldroadman (13 Jan 2015)

screenman said:


> I have improved my 10 times on the turbo by putting the fan behind me rather than having it blowing into my face.
> 
> I also put 3 telephone books under the back of the turbo lifting the wheel up about 3 inches, I left the front on the floor, this means my turbo rides are all downhill.


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## jdtate101 (15 Jan 2015)

As HIP says above turbo's are very useful for training lactate threshold and targeting increases in FTP. Start by building a good base, then move on to lots of sweet spot work for the lactate and aerobic capacity, then HIIT to target power.

I've found Trainer Road to really help with structured turbo sessions....


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## ayceejay (15 Jan 2015)

The very nature of time trialling is testing ones self to measure improvements (or otherwise) over a given distance against the clock. A turbo trainer will not measure distance in the same way and is a poor indicator as a measure against performance on the road but can offer information to compare with similar performance on the turbo.


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## Joshua Plumtree (16 Jan 2015)

Agree. Not having access to a power metre, I use a heart rate monitor to identify if I'm working at the correct intensity on the turbo. I then try to monitor any improvements in power output by using average speed readings over time. Not ideal, I know, but beggars etc etc.


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2015)

@Joshua Plumtree

Depending on your turbo trainer and your willingness to do stuff methodically (pump tyre to the same pressure, ensure same number of turns when engaging the resistance unit against the tyre etc), you can work off of turbo speed. Provided you have a turbo trainer that has a repeatable power profile and you do a bit of speed profiling, this is a better training intensity metric than heart rate IMO.

For a given power on my turbo (Cyclops Fluid2), I generally get the same speed (comparing average power and average speed over a set duration) within 0.1 mph. If I compare heart rate and power, the variance is far larger percentage wise, to the point I could be swinging 20+W either way of target power, if I ride to maintain a target heart rate value. The 0.1 mph speed variation is representative of a smaller power variance <10W. I would say, on average, based on speed I could peg my power output on my turbo trainer to within about 5-8W.


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2015)

To be very clear, in the above I am talking about seeing the same speed for the same power, on the same turbo trainer, between sessions or for intervals within a session, speed vs power is simple not comparable between road and turbo.


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## Joshua Plumtree (16 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> To be very clear, in the above I am talking about seeing the same speed for the same power, on the same turbo trainer, between sessions or for intervals within a session, speed vs power is simple not comparable between road and turbo.



Thanks for that Robert. I know that road and turbo are not comparable, it just seems a slightly better way to gauge any improvements I might be making rather than relying purely on guesswork or instinct.


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2015)

If you have a suitable turbo trainer, you can gauge improvements over various durations by simply doing a maximal effort over said duration and noting the average speed. For this you do not need anything other than a (suitable) turbo trainer and the same set up procedure each time. Provided the turbo is as I said, suitable i.e. it has a repeatable resistance curve (power vs speed) then an increase in average speed will indicate an increase in power. You won't know how many watts you have improved by, but you will know you have improved and be detecting fairly small, realistic gains.

If you don't have a suitable turbo trainer, you can't really do this, except to detect gross, unrealistic or long term (large) changes since any indication of improved fitness over any sort of short term (small changes in fitness) may well be hidden within the noise created by the unrepeatable resistance curve.


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## Hip Priest (16 Jan 2015)

That's what Graeme Obree suggests in his book. Set up your bike on a turbo, eliminate all variables (to an incredibly precise degree, in his case), and seek to improve your average speed.


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