# Older ICE Trice - Opinions please



## cosmicbike (25 Sep 2015)

So I've been thinking about a dabble in the trike world, but on a budget. Just found this one on ebay, reasonable distance from me, looks OK, just wondering if there I anything I should look for on a 15yr old Trice?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351520680823?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Thanks


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## steveindenmark (25 Sep 2015)

I used to have a new one. I cannot tell you what to look for but that one looks the business. Go and have a go on it :0)


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## numbnuts (25 Sep 2015)

WoW looks very good


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## Smokin Joe (25 Sep 2015)

I've been looking at that myself.


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## numbnuts (25 Sep 2015)

18 hours to go and no bids ?


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## Simpleton (25 Sep 2015)

After all the owner has had done to the trike I'd leave well alone. However if so, then I'd be wanting to look at the welds near the crucifix and also the where the track bar is attached to the steering arms as these have been know to fail.


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## Andrew1971 (25 Sep 2015)

That look's really nice no harm in having a look though.


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## numbnuts (26 Sep 2015)

Now under 3 hours and no bids


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## Ian H (26 Sep 2015)

Starting price is way too high. Off-road spec is limiting.


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## mickle (26 Sep 2015)

Off road spec is easy to change with fresh tyres and change of sprockets and/or chainrings.

It's easily worth £500. And when you come to sell it you'll very likely get that for it.


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## Smokin Joe (26 Sep 2015)

Ended with no bids.

I was very tempted myself, but I don't know anything about recumbents so I'm wary about buying second hand blind. If it had been nearer I'd have gone for a look.

@cosmicbike resisted too.


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## cosmicbike (26 Sep 2015)

I did indeed, unable to get there to view due to birthday parties. May take a look if it gets relisted


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## voyager (30 Sep 2015)

relisted 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ice-Trice...tored-repaint-in-off-road-trim-/351533121773?

starting bid still £499


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## Smokin Joe (30 Sep 2015)

I'm itchin'


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## mickle (1 Oct 2015)

(Mrs Doyle/) 'Go on, go on', etc


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## Smokin Joe (1 Oct 2015)

mickle said:


> (Mrs Doyle/) 'Go on, go on', etc


(Mrs Smokin Joe) 'You've not long bought a bloody frame for your road bike'

((Me) 'Ar$e, feck, drink, girls'.


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## Andrew1971 (1 Oct 2015)

Smokin Joe don't mention girl's you may get away with it


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## mrandmrspoves (4 Oct 2015)

I am surprised it didn't sell first time round - but agree that the off road spec and high starting price probably put people off.
The early Peter Ross Crystal Engineering Trice models were variable in quality - and there was an early model that had a very weak frame at the back end - which did have a tendency to crack. Some of the welding was of variable quality too and a few did split at the cruciform.
Basically though the later versions were pretty well sorted and ICE didn't radically change the design on their early models when they took over production.
Any old Crystal Trices that are still out there probably had no welding issues or have already been repaired so I think this would be worth a punt. The seller has taken detailed photos of the underneath - but I guess that if he had wished to, he could easily have hidden welding issues with a little filler prior to painting.
My first bent trike was a Ross Trice and it was a great little trike to ride. I sold it on for a little more than I bought it for and my main reason for selling was the old larger 20" wheels as it was impossible to get decent tyres for ERTRO 451 rather than the newer ERTRO 406. I had toyed with swapping the wheels or getting new rims laced to the original hub - but in the end I decided on a complete upgrade. Ironically one of the other factors in my decision to sell it was the lack of mudguards or a way to mount them (anyone riding that trike in Winter without mudguards us going to get dirty to say the least) whereas my Performer came with mudguards......but the mounts are made from cheese so I fabricated my own anyway!


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## ufkacbln (4 Oct 2015)

My first trike was one of those early Peter Ross Trices.







Allegedly the frames were welded and manufactured by a group of sixth formers in Cromer!

I changed the wheels to 406/559 fairly early to get better tyres, but strangely, although all my present trikes have mudguards, I never bothered for all those years on the Trice


I had mine with various design changes for almost 18 years and it was a blast to ride. I eventually upgraded it for a Catrike Expedition


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## Smokin Joe (4 Oct 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> My first trike was one of those early Peter Ross Trices.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assume you were happy with it, any issues?


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## ufkacbln (4 Oct 2015)

Initially the frame failed were the rear triangle joined the main boom - it was repaired with a reinforced rear end.
I also had one of the "tabs" that secured the seat replaced
The new frame failed at the bottom point again a couple of years later and was replaced with a whole new frame, this time in two parts
That one failed at the cruciform, and I received a new front end with a gusseted weld

After that it was basically the same as the one you are looking at and that lasted some eight years with no problems


It seems a lot, but don't forget that at this time it was an experimental, pioneering world, and these failures which were quickly sorted was part of the pioneering designs of the time... so there was almost an expectation that there would be some failure and modification


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## voyager (4 Oct 2015)

FYI mr p

you cannot use filler under powder coating - The powder WONT STICK unless its metal 

regards emma


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## mrandmrspoves (4 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> FYI mr p
> 
> you cannot use filler under powder coating - The powder WONT STICK unless its metal
> 
> regards emma



Thanks - that is something that I didn't know Emma - but I guess the point is still the same that the new paint could hide a multitude of sins.


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## voyager (4 Oct 2015)

you get new paint on a new trike 

that could be hiding a multitude of sin !!!!!!!!!


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## Andrew1971 (4 Oct 2015)

Myself i would rather buy brand new then second hand. With new you get 12 month warrany. Do you get that for second hand me thinks no.
Now someone is going to prove me wrong !!


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## voyager (4 Oct 2015)

Have welder will travel - having built 14 trikes and bikes , 
I prefer to build and mend my own its quicker , and at least I know what its made of -

Back on subject 

At £500 I think the trike is worth a punt , and £50 would convert it to road trim - 

My first trike was a trex at £250 , I whipped of the bar end shifters and some of the nice bits and sold it a year later for more than I paid for it and had a queue wanting to view it .

Its better than a lot of low spec trikes being offered on the market for more


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## ufkacbln (5 Oct 2015)

.... have a look at this one to see a different set of welds, gussets etc on a very similar trike



Some of these models are unique!


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## Smokin Joe (5 Oct 2015)

Cunobelin said:


> .... have a look at this one to see a different set of welds, gussets etc on a very similar trike
> 
> 
> 
> Some of these models are unique!


Up to 1k already!


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## smokeysmoo (5 Oct 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'm itchin'


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## voyager (5 Oct 2015)

Under 24 hours to go and no starter bid - maybe a email to the guy ?

regards emma


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## mrandmrspoves (5 Oct 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> Up to 1k already!



......and not significantlydifferent from the one that didn't sell at £499. (Disc V Drums) Moral of the story - don't put off road tyres on a trike if you want to sell it for a good price.(unless it is an ICE Fat)
2nd moral of the story if you want to pick up a bargain trike at a good price, look for one owned by someone who foolishly put off road tyres on it before trying to sell it.


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## Smokin Joe (5 Oct 2015)

User said:


> Personally, I wouldn't by a second hand trike without seeing it in the flesh.
> 
> If anyone is thinking about diving into the 'bent world, I'd recommend a trip to Kevin at DTek in Little Thetford.


I was very tempted, but I came round to your way of thinking as the trike is described as "At least" 15 years old. Even if the frame is sound one could never be sure whether bearings and running gear are in good nick or not and that £500 could soon mount up. I'm coming round more and more to a new Performer, good reports of them on here and they seem great value for money.


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## mrandmrspoves (5 Oct 2015)

You won't go wrong with a Performer SJ. I met another happy Performer owner at the recent Mildenhall Rally. He now has a set of my mudguard brackets - which is the one thing Performer hasn't got right. (Happy to make more sets - for a small donation to the RNLI)
If you do buy one, don't forget to calculate import duty and V.A.T. to the final price if not included. A1 Adventuresports who are the dealer listing on eBay (based in Australia) were spot on. 
You can probably haggle a little on price or spec for example ask for bar end shifters rather than twist grip and ask for the mudguards and rack to be thrown in as part of the deal.


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## voyager (5 Oct 2015)

Have seen some of the Australian trikes on some websites - with some problems - buying from halfway around the world means you won't get much of a warranty if something does go wrong . But you pays your money - and gets what you pay for .
vat and duty I believe works out to another 22% IIRC . I did look at them a couple of years ago before going down the path we took.

I am more than pleased with our fleet of home builds and if anything goes wrong *I have only got myself to BLAME *

have fun 

emma


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## mrandmrspoves (5 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> Have seen some of the Australian trikes on some websites - with some problems - buying from halfway around the world means you won't get much of a warranty if something does go wrong . But you pays your money - and gets what you pay for .
> vat and duty I believe works out to another 22% IIRC . I did look at them a couple of years ago before going down the path we took.
> 
> I am more than pleased with our fleet of home builds and if anything goes wrong *I have only got myself to BLAME *
> ...



Performer do have a first owner frame guarantee of 5 years (IIRC) and Steve the dealer in Brisbane was very helpful with my purchase. Somehow I escaped paying import duty and VAT - it was simply not requested when the courier delivered..
Your welding is obviously much better than mine Emma - I would also know who to blame if something went wrong with a self built trike ......the idiot that put it together!


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

mrandmrspoves said:


> ..
> Your welding is obviously much better than mine Emma -



*Thats Obvious really*, ---- thats why we have custom built trikes and not purchased trikes 

BTW one of my trikes was used in a " 13 marathons in 14 days " run for charity " as a support vehicle from London to Scotland .

regards emma


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> Have seen some of the Australian trikes on some websites - with some problems - buying from halfway around the world means you won't get much of a warranty if something does go wrong . But you pays your money - and gets what you pay for .
> vat and duty I believe works out to another 22% IIRC . I did look at them a couple of years ago before going down the path we took.
> emma



22% ? And the rest! Something like ((Purchase price plus delivery plus insurance) + 15% import duty) + 20% VAT. More like 40%.

I'd suggest the KMX Venom as budget trike. The reviews are pretty good and you'd be support a British company.


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

PaulM said:


> I'd suggest the KMX Venom as budget trike. The reviews are pretty good and you'd be support a British company.



Unfortunately all KMX trike have DKS steering and to get a better spec trike with USS you will pay more


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

Same as the Catrikes? ....

EDIT: The KMX does use bushings instead of headsets (as some earlier Catrikes did). This is certainly cheaper but I'm not sure how much of a disadvantage it is in practice. They probably have a steering dampening effect which might actually be an advantage.


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

Having ridden a DKS steering trike for 8 months before going to USS I would not go back to a steering system that moves the steering in a foreign way to the natural system of under seat steering .

Only 3 hours left on the e-bay trike - remember the reserve might be higher that the starting price !!!!!!!!!!


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## Smokin Joe (6 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> Unfortunately all KMX trike have DKS steering and to get a better spec trike with USS you will pay more


So what is the problem with the steering system, especially as I would not be comparing it to anything else as I've never ridden one. Those prices are very attractive.


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

Direct steering has more left-right movement and less fore-aft movement than indirect steering. It's a question of degree and individual hand-brain co-ordination. Catrike direct steering is pretty much as good as ICE indirect steering IME though heavier. The KMX direct steer may have less fore-aft movement than the Catrikes and may be a little more difficult to control for some. YMMV.


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

I took a while to get accustom to DKS move right to turn left is a bit disconcerting going down hill at over 50mph 

Have ridden a bike for over half a century USS feels natural .  .....

I would suggest to try before you buy* ( about 5miles worth of try )*


Still some of us home builders --------- DON'T LIKE COMPROMISE ------------.
When you can have luxury 

regards emma


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

younger model
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recumbent...es-from-new-/121780157445?hash=item1c5aa9bc05

looks very identical to me lug wise !


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

I struggle with tiller steer on a bike but had no problems with my Catrike. Challenge changed the steering on their Concept trike from direct to indirect steering (actually both options were available for a while) because some people struggled. Always worth getting a test ride.


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## mrandmrspoves (6 Oct 2015)

PaulM said:


> 22% ? And the rest! Something like ((Purchase price plus delivery plus insurance) + 15% import duty) + 20% VAT. More like 40%.



Free delivery and it is not yours until delivered safely so no insurance required. Pay with a credit card or PayPal to be on the safe side in terms of purchase protection. 
My Performer cost £1009 delivered to my door.
Nothing against KMX - but they are quite "agricultural" when compared with the Performer range.


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## mrandmrspoves (6 Oct 2015)

Direct steer can feel quite harsh when compared with indirect. Under seat indirect is very much more comfortable with less vibration and jarring transmitted to the rider. 
Only disadvantage of indirect that I can think of, is it may result in a larger turning circle.


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

mrandmrspoves said:


> Nothing against KMX - but they are quite "agricultural" when compared with the Performer range.



Have you ridden the aluminium Venom? I haven't. I haven't ridden a Performer either. So the Performer is £1009 after paying duty and VAT?

The Performer JC70 is listed as £1559 on http://www.localbike.co.uk/acatalog/JC70_Trike.html


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## Smokin Joe (6 Oct 2015)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PERFORMER...T-COUNTRIES-/131619903845?hash=item1ea5285965

With the option to make an offer you'd pay less than 1k excluding any taxes.


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## Andrew1971 (6 Oct 2015)

KMX steering can be a bit sensative at higher speeds with the 16 inch wheel's. Never ridden a bigger wheel KMX. 
The KMX tornado is my first ever recumbent trike got nothing else to compare it with. 
Andrew


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

Sold £640 fair price - only 3 bids 

so someone got it


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## Smokin Joe (6 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> Sold £640 fair price - only 3 bids
> 
> so someone got it


I was still tempted to push the button, but £640 is more than I would have paid for that anyway. Glad it went as I would have been thinking, "Maybe I should...?"


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## mrandmrspoves (6 Oct 2015)

PaulM said:


> Have you ridden the aluminium Venom? I haven't. I haven't ridden a Performer either. So the Performer is £1009 after paying duty and VAT?
> 
> The Performer JC70 is listed as £1559 on http://www.localbike.co.uk/acatalog/JC70_Trike.html



No, I have not ridden their top of the range model. I have ridden a Typhoon and as stated I found it a bit agricultural. Well made, robust, reasonably good value - but still agricultural. 

To each their own - I have no personal interest in promoting Performer rather than KMX. 
Ideally everyone would test ride whatever they plan to buy - but that is not always possible and if it isn't possible it is best to find out what other people's experience is.
If I were rich, I would buy an ICE - but if I were rich I wouldn't be driving a 12 year old Peugeot which cost me less when I bought it a few years ago than an ICE would have done.


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## PaulM (6 Oct 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PERFORMER...T-COUNTRIES-/131619903845?hash=item1ea5285965
> 
> With the option to make an offer you'd pay less than 1k excluding any taxes.



So around £1400 then. Worth considering but it's 3lbs heavier than the KMX.


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## Smokin Joe (6 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> Having ridden a DKS steering trike for 8 months before going to USS I would not go back to a steering system that moves the steering in a foreign way to the natural system of under seat steering .



Can you explain exactly how you need to move the bars on direct steering and what problems it gave you? Bearing in mind I know nothing about how these things work.


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## voyager (6 Oct 2015)

DKS steering has the bars connected to the " head tubes " where Under Seat Steering has a standard bike type steering that is linked via a steering rod or rods 

DKS is cheap to produce as there are less moving parts BUT the steering movement is left to right this means that to turn right you move the bars left ! 

I came off that trike 3 times with hitting speed bumps at speed and with the steering moving left to right,
the body lean due to hitting the bump caused me to "capsize " the trike The last injury was the last straw ( it took several months to heal during which the voyager trike was "born " with USS . if you are local you are welcome to try mine 

regards emma


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## Smokin Joe (6 Oct 2015)

voyager said:


> DKS steering has the bars connected to the " head tubes " where Under Seat Steering has a standard bike type steering that is linked via a steering rod or rods
> 
> DKS is cheap to produce as there are less moving parts BUT the steering movement is left to right this means that to turn right you move the bars left !
> 
> ...


Never having ridden a trike before and therefore having no "Muscle memory" to contend with I could imagine picking that up quickly, but who knows? Bit like steering a boat. Incidently, how do the bars move, fore and aft, side to side or up and down?

Thanks for the offer but I live in west Wales.


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## Simpleton (6 Oct 2015)

KMX trikes are more for the fun and quirky types of riding. I recall one promo video of one doing a two wheeled balancing ride and doing jumps off a BMX ramp. I'd take a Catrike any day of the week for commuting or longer Brevet types of riding.


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## Pikey (6 Oct 2015)

Simpleton said:


> KMX trikes are more for the fun and quirky types of riding. I recall one promo video of one doing a two wheeled balancing ride and doing jumps off a BMX ramp. I'd take a Catrike any day of the week for commuting or longer Brevet types of riding.



I'll take a catrike for that too. I just want mine to blimmin arrive now!


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## Pikey (6 Oct 2015)

I saw these when I was toying with a performer as they are uk based, so presumably you get uk customer support and warrantee etc..., plus they take cyclescheme http://www.localbike.co.uk/acatalog/Colour_choices.html

Could be an option for you @Smokin Joe


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## ufkacbln (6 Oct 2015)

With the steering itself, the mechanism is still intuitive and simple for both direct and indirect

In one case the handlebars are attached direct to the headset and then linked with a rod that means the two wheels turn at the same time. You shift both handlebars laterally, 


In the other, the handlebars are linked to a headset and then rods connects to the wheels. In this case the rods move the wheels as opposed to linking them. YOu move them back and forward.

Realistically there is simply a different "feel" but both are easy to use

Direct can be more "twitchy" as there is not the damping that is provided by the rods driving the wheel motion. However the other side is that the damping effectively "delays" the wheel movement so it is less responsive


I regularly change between the direct on teh Catrike and the indirect on the Gekko with no problem


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