# After 6 sh*t months health wise I am thinking ebike



## Dave7 (1 Sep 2020)

BUT....... 
They all seem so heavy. I thought technology would have sorted that.
I want a hybrid.
50 mile range ?
As light as possible.
Any suggestions ?


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## HMS_Dave (1 Sep 2020)

The weight comes down with price, but they're all gonna be weightier of course...

With no budget specified, it is hard to make any specific recommendations but i would consider a mid drive with integrated batteries which lighten the bike a little, based on my own personal research into this that i did earlier in the year.

You could get @Drago to give you tips on dead lifts and squats to get that bike lifted over them turnstyles though


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## gavroche (1 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> BUT.......
> They all seem so heavy. I thought technology would have sorted that.
> I want a hybrid.
> 50 mile range ?
> ...


You've done it now and @Drago won't leave you alone until you get one.


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## Drago (1 Sep 2020)

A genuine 50 mile range is really pushing it, unless you are filled with helium and running on low assistance levels.

I can only give the example of my Subway Electric, as thats all i know. Its weighty, but not super heavy. On the plus side it rolls very well indeed. Its a hybrid. Its more than up to the job of light trails, canal towpaths etc. Its very stable and sure fioted and an absolute joy to hammer downhill on the twisties, grippy and stable but with positive steering and superb brakes.

I'm very heavy and manage about 35-40 miles, depending on what assistance levels i'm running. The good news is that even with my weight it has no trouble getting me up hills.

The early version had some problems with cutting out, as did most Carrera models where the powertrain was a mix and match from different manufacturers, but the new version has an all suntour powertrain and seems to have more or less sorted that out.

So, aside from your desired range, which is a little unrealistic, it ticks your boxes. I know me old mate @gavroche secretly wants one.


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> BUT.......
> They all seem so heavy. I thought technology would have sorted that.
> I want a hybrid.
> 50 mile range ?
> ...


Here's one example that a friend of mine was looking at - the Ribble Hybrid Al E



User review said:


> It weighed 13.95kg (size Medium) out of the box, so a bit more than the 13.1kg claimed on the website but still very reasonable indeed for an e-bike...
> 
> Battery range is of course hugely dependent on conditions, but I did a 30 mile ride with over 1800 feet of climbing and the assist level either set at yellow or red throughout and it used just less than 50% of the battery, so a 60 mile range with battery to spare should be easily achievable...


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## oldworld (1 Sep 2020)

It is the range that stops me getting one just yet. I'm around 83 kg and would like a bike that did a minimum of 50 miles. I rarely go further than 40 miles but would like a useful reserve. If a new bike is advertised with a range of say 50 miles can you expect this to be less in a couple of years? How much less if this is the case?
I'm sure in a few years newer models will have longer range. At the moment does it depend on the price? Does more expensive = longer range?
I take ages before I buy anything so I'm really trying to get as much info before parting with the readies.


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## DCLane (1 Sep 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Here's one example that a friend of mine was looking at - the Ribble Hybrid Al E



One of my club's members (Brian Robinson!) has one of these. In a real-world test however on the club ride yesterday the Ribble e-road bike was noticeably slower than the Giant e-road bike uphill, despite having the same power limit.


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## Dave7 (1 Sep 2020)

Drago said:


> A genuine 50 mile range is really pushing it, unless you are filled with helium and running on low assistance levels.
> 
> I can only give the example of my Subway Electric, as thats all i know. Its weighty, but not super heavy. On the plus side it rolls very well indeed. Its a hybrid. Its more than up to the job of light trails, canal towpaths etc. Its very stable and sure fioted and an absolute joy to hammer downhill on the twisties, grippy and stable but with positive steering and superb brakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
50 would be the max. Most of last years rides were 30ish.


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2020)

DCLane said:


> One of my club's members (Brian Robinson!) has one of these. In a real-world test however on the club ride yesterday the Ribble e-road bike was noticeably slower than the Giant e-road bike uphill, despite having the same power limit.


I did notice that Dave is in Cheshire so I was assuming that there won't be many serious hills to contend with?


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## Drago (1 Sep 2020)

You're smaller and lighter than me - with dilligent use of the controls, you might just manahe to squeeze 50 powered miles out of it. Evsn once the battery is flat it is reasonable to ride, not a complete anvil.


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## Dave7 (1 Sep 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Here's one example that a friend of mine was looking at - the Ribble Hybrid Al E


That is very good....... not a lot more than my present hybrid.
I will read that spec with interest.


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## Dave7 (1 Sep 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I did notice that Dave is in Cheshire so I was assuming that there won't be many serious hills to contend with?


Correct. If I stick to 30 miles there are no serious hills.


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> That is very good....... not a lot more than my present hybrid.
> I will read that spec with interest.


What we liked about it (apart from the performance boost offered by the motor!) was the fact that it doesn't look much like an ebike, with its battery being neatly hidden away in the downtube.


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## Dave7 (1 Sep 2020)

ColinJ said:


> What we liked about it (apart from the performance boost offered by the motor!) was the fact that it doesn't look much like an ebike, with its battery being neatly hidden away in the downtube.


Not sure about the 1x 11gears. Apart from that it looks good.
Any idea of the range ?


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2020)

DCLane said:


> One of my club's members (Brian Robinson!) has one of these. In a real-world test however on the club ride yesterday the Ribble e-road bike was noticeably slower than the Giant e-road bike uphill, despite having the same power limit.


I didn't notice that Brian Robinson was the rider! I rode the Kirklees Sportive a couple of times and then it was renamed in his honour. Brian was pretty old even back then so it is great to hear that he is still getting out.


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## ColinJ (1 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Not sure about the 1x 11gears. Apart from that it looks good.


You get a 42/11 top gear, which should be plenty high enough, and a 42/42 bottom gear, which should be plenty low enough with motor assistance on the climbs. Admittedly, the steps between the gears will be bigger than on a normal gear set-up.



Dave7 said:


> Any idea of the range ?


See the quote in my other post! (There are lots of user reviews on the Ribble web page and I just lifted bits of one of them.)


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## HobbesOnTour (1 Sep 2020)

I'm not aware if your medical situation is temporary or permanent but have you considered converting an existing bike to an e-bike? 
I've started seeing youtube ads for Swytch (have no idea why! 😀) but there are many other options out there.
If things improve, health wise, you can convert back. 
Good luck!


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## gzoom (1 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> BUT.......
> They all seem so heavy. I thought technology would have sorted that.
> I want a hybrid.
> 50 mile range ?
> ...



I think this is one of the best looking e-hybrid bikes around. Under 15kg, the Fazua motor is fab and you should manage 50 miles will reasonable boost depending on terrain.

I've got the Boardman version with the same motor, its a great system and the Canyon looks like a better bike.

Canyon Roadlite on.


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## Drago (1 Sep 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I'm not aware if your medical situation is temporary or permanent...



He has very bad Nurembergs, so could be for life.


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## CXRAndy (1 Sep 2020)

You can't really get less than 2.5kg for the motor and 3kg for the battery. The weight is irrelevant unless you are lifting the bike. Bit what you get is 250 Watts of assistance for less than 6kg.

There are plenty models which will get you 50+ miles but are expensive. eg Reisse and Mueller.

You can go aftermarket for much less but it takes practical skills to install


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## welsh dragon (1 Sep 2020)

You can always go cheap and cheerful and go for a G Tech. Not too heavy, gates? Belt driven, and they have bottle batteries. You can always buy a spare one as well. That would ensure you get 30 miles especially if you don't have hills. Easy maintenance as well. Might be worth a look


@keithmac bought one and has had it for a few years with no problems.


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## Drago (1 Sep 2020)

Andy isright. Indeed, you get more tha 250W, that being the maximum _continuous _output. A fit, healthy and keen rider might manage 200W, somit is a real boost to hillclimbing,


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## fossyant (1 Sep 2020)

That Canyon looks great.


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## Slick (1 Sep 2020)

Not all the motors and batteries struggle to do the advertised mileage.

Mrs Slick has a boch motor with an advertised range of over 80 miles. Admittedly, she's no heavy weight but she also isn't frightened to boost the assistance to turbo for most of the ride and it has taken her 70 odd miles with stills bit left in the tank.


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## welsh dragon (1 Sep 2020)

What kind of riding will you be doing Dave. If it's mainly road and light trails I really fancy the new Van Moof S3. States between 36 and 93 miles depending on how you ride it. Easy to maintain and classy looking as well. I might have drooled at the thought of it once or twice.


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (1 Sep 2020)

I’ve just got this moustache 28.1 first ride yesterday 37 miles & not used 1bar of battery.
17kg but you don’t feel this once on the move, it’s rides nice as well.


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## Pale Rider (2 Sep 2020)

Range remains the big limiting factor of ebikes for those who like to do day rides.

There was a reasonable leap forward in technology about 15 years ago with the introduction of lithium batteries - a vast improvement over lead acid.

But since then progress has been glacial.

The energy density of my 2009 Bosch battery is very similar to the latest ones.

Every now and again, some research is published which looks promising, but it never reaches the market.

The latest electric cars use very similar cells to ebikes, just lots more of them.

Batteries were big and heavy when they were invented 200 years ago, they are still relatively big and heavy today.

There is no magic wand when it comes to range, an ebike with a light and fit rider running minimum assist on flat roads will go a lot further than a lardy bloke trying to beast the hills.

The lighter weight ebikes such as the roadie style ones have a weaker motor and a smaller battery - we could call them 'light assist'.

Cannondale make a roadie ebike with the more powerful (and heavier) Bosch motor and a (heavier) 500wh battery which would be better for range than most lumpy flat bar hybrids with similar motor/battery combos.

To generalise, it comes down to a real world range of 40-50 miles, probably near 40 in most cases.

Some ebikes have an even heavier 700wh battery which will increase the range a little.

To be confident of 50+ miles it's really a case of carrying a spare battery, or in the case of my Riese and Muller, having a plumbed in twin battery set up.

The bike is German, so built to invade Poland, add the second battery, and you have a very weighty beast.

Manhandling it is hard work, so it's best suited to roadie rides where there's not much stopping or getting on and off.

@ColinJ didn't realise what a treat it was for me when I first turned up to his rides to find I could keep pedalling pretty much until the cafe stop.

Dave could consider a compact framed ebike with 20" balloon tyres, much easier to use for someone getting on in years.

This Cube has the same Bosch motor and battery as the big wheel bikes, so its performance will be similar.

One of these with a spare battery in a pannier bag would be a very handy rig capable of banging out the miles.

https://www.cube.eu/uk/2021/e-bikes...ct-hybrid/cube-compact-hybrid-sport-bluenred/

NB: Take no notice of the 'urban mobility/commuting' blurb. I have a similarly designed bike and have done 80+ mile rides on it.


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## Dave7 (2 Sep 2020)

@Pale Rider a lazy question ie I haven't yet googled it.
When they quote eg 50 mile range does that mean 50 if I don't pedal at all or with an average amount of pedalling? (I am assuming the latter)


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## Pale Rider (2 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> @Pale Rider a lazy question ie I haven't yet googled it.
> When they quote eg 50 mile range does that mean 50 if I don't pedal at all or with an average amount of pedalling? (I am assuming the latter)



Yes, a range quote will be with an average amount of pedalling - that's a good way to put it.

Bear in mind with the crank drive bikes such as the Bosch you have to pedal all the time - the only way to activate the motor is to pedal.

The same is true of most of the hub drive bikes, particularly the road legal ones.

A benefit of the Bosch system is the seamless way it applies the power.

Some of the hub drive bikes can feel crude in comparison.


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## Dave7 (2 Sep 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Yes, a range quote will be with an average amount of pedalling - that's a good way to put it.
> 
> Bear in mind with the crank drive bikes such as the Bosch you have to pedal all the time - the only way to activate the motor is to pedal.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that just cannot free wheel at all ?


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## CXRAndy (2 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Are you saying that just cannot free wheel at all ?



You're talking of a speed pedelec, where you turn the pedals, but in a slow non pressure motion. 
You can get some kits with thumb controller to allow you to stop pedalling altogether.

Ebike UK legislation means you need to turn the pedals.


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## Pale Rider (2 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> Are you saying that just cannot free wheel at all ?



You can freewheel in the same way as on a pushbike.

The motor will have switched itself off as soon as you stopped pedalling.

The newer models have very little resistance when the motor is off, so the bike will behave very much like your pushbike.

One difference is the extra weight means you will tend to gather more speed when freewheeling down a hill.


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## Dave7 (2 Sep 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> You can freewheel in the same way as on a pushbike.
> 
> The motor will have switched itself off as soon as you stopped pedalling.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
All very interesting this.
I am far from technical and need to do some reading up on the subject 🤔


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## Pale Rider (2 Sep 2020)

Dave7 said:


> need to do some reading up on the subject



Hours of fun to be had with the Bosch Range Assistant.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/


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## gbb (2 Sep 2020)

Remember the assistance level you use have a massive effect on mileage.
For instance my crossfire / suntour setup has ...
No assist, pedal normally. It's hard on inclines (but that might be my OA) , I find a high cadence helps.
Low assist, this at a given pedalling force will allow you to achieve say 11mph with little effort.
Tour, same effort from you, you will achieve say 15mph, but the drain on the battery is higher, less mileage achieved.
Climb, really gives it a boost on hills but even more drain on the battery, even less miles.
Sport, just gives it full whack, same scenario.
All kinda obvious but what I do to maximise battery life / mileage is constantly switch between no assist when I can (on the flat, downhill or if the wind is behind me) and try not to use anything above low assist most of the rest of the time. So normally, you aim to use a low level of assist, this also helps you maintain some fitness, not getting the bike to do it all for you.

Your level of health /fitness will dictate how much assistance you want. 7 years ago I'd be doing 50 miles on a roadbike hard. Health issues now dictate a 10 to 15 mile assisted ride is all I want or can do , but without it, I simply wouldnt be able to enjoy riding at all, period.
An ebike is a marvelous thing for that, its kept me out there.


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## Zanelad (2 Sep 2020)

I ride a Giant Fastroad E+, a flat bar road bike. I regularly get 4 of my 22 mile round trip commutes between charges. I reckon 5 would possible in the summer as the cold does affect battety performance. If out for a weekend or lockdown ride I do 2 regular 35 mile loops, with more in the way of hills and still have around 20% of the battery remaining. The last 10% does drop quickly though. That's using the 2nd lowest of the 5 power settings with a little of the highestvsetyings forvthe steeper hills. The bike weighs a little over 17 kgs, but you don't really notice if unless your lifting the bike up. There's a walk assist so even pushing the bike takes minimal effort if you need to.


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## gbb (3 Sep 2020)

Zanelad said:


> I ride a Giant Fastroad E+, a flat bar road bike. I regularly get 4 of my 22 mile round trip commutes between charges. I reckon 5 would possible in the summer as the cold does affect battety performance. If out for a weekend or lockdown ride I do 2 regular 35 mile loops, with more in the way of hills and still have around 20% of the battery remaining. *The last 10% does drop quickly though*. That's using the 2nd lowest of the 5 power settings with a little of the highestvsetyings forvthe steeper hills. The bike weighs a little over 17 kgs, but you don't really notice if unless your lifting the bike up. There's a walk assist so even pushing the bike takes minimal effort if you need to.


This is something worth knowing if someone wasnt expecting it. The last 10 - 15 % on mine just evaporates really quickly, you have to be aware of this if you're a distance from home, or have a headwind, or a climb, or...... 
Based on normal useage, you'd think you'd get maybe 10 or 15 miles....and you squeeze a nervous 5 miles out of it, not good for the battery either i suspect. It's better not to put yourself there.


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## Drago (3 Sep 2020)

The BMS on most bikes prevents the battery from genuinely running flat, cutting it off while there is still a bit left in the tank to protect it.


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## lyn1 (9 Sep 2020)

gzoom said:


> I think this is one of the best looking e-hybrid bikes around. Under 15kg, the Fazua motor is fab and you should manage 50 miles will reasonable boost depending on terrain.
> 
> I've got the Boardman version with the same motor, its a great system and the Canyon looks like a better bike.
> 
> ...


My wife has this and very impressed with it. Power setting on downtube is odd until you get used to it but otherwise fine.


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