# Cantilever or V Brakes on a tourer



## stephenjubb (29 Jan 2009)

Most tourist bikes come with Cantilever Brakes, yet from what I've read V Brakes are much better despite their being fewer accessories (i.e. brake levers for drop bars) available.

My questions are on a tourer would you prefer V Brakes or Cantilevers on a tourer and secondly why do tourers mostly always have cantilever brakes?

cheers
steve jubb


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## hubbike (29 Jan 2009)

v brakes have more stopping power, but the blocks wear out more quickly than cantis. cantis are reliable and staightforward and perhaps that's all you really need for a tourer?


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## Kirstie (29 Jan 2009)

I use neither!
Best by far for my bike, which doesn't do V brakes, are the cyclocross 'frog leg' style cantilevers eg the Tektro CR520. They are just fantastic.


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## Cranky (30 Jan 2009)

stephenjubb said:


> Most tourist bikes come with Cantilever Brakes, yet from what I've read V Brakes are much better despite their being fewer accessories (i.e. brake levers for drop bars) available.
> 
> My questions are on a tourer would you prefer V Brakes or Cantilevers on a tourer and secondly *why do tourers mostly always have cantilever brakes?*
> 
> ...



I think it's to give enough clearance for the wider tyres and mudguards of a tourer and, as you suggest, V brakes need adapting to be effective from drop bar levers.


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## Nigeyy (30 Jan 2009)

Both brake types are more than capable when they are good quality brakes, with good quality pads and well setup.

The big difference at the lever end of things is cable pull; cantis pull less cable to work correctly, v-brakes need more cable pull. This means that for your usual short pull levers such as those on road style handlebars, cantis work. You can make v-brakes work with short pull levers (such as STI) with travel adapters, and you can find long pull road brake levers as well that will work with v brakes. Usually v-brakes don't have a problem with fenders either. Generally speaking, v-brakes offer better rim clearance (in terms of a rim becoming out of true) as they travel from an initial position farther out than cantis.... Likewise generally cantis usually offer less "digital" style braking and offer better modulation. These are big generalizations though!

Either example of a well setup quality brake will be fine. My personal preference is for cantis -particularly more modern examples that offer v-brake style pads that are (very thankfully) much much easier to setup than the old style. But I'd use v-brakes as well -it just so happened I was gifted the brakeset (good quality) and I had some old style brake levers I could use on my trekking bars.

One last thought: mini-V's. I've never tried them, but they are supposed to be compatible with short pulls, but for some reason have never been popular with short pull road brake levers; I can only guess they do not work as well as you'd expect -plus they would more than likely give trouble for fender clearance.


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## simoncc (30 Jan 2009)

I ditched the hopeless, noisy Avid cantis on my Dawes Ultra Galaxy for a pair of long reach dual pivot brakes. They work fine, not as sharp as the short reach dual pivot brakes do on my road bike, but sharp enough. The only modification required was to drill out an 8mm hole in the back of the forks to take the countersunk Allen nut.


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## samid (30 Jan 2009)

If I were choosing brakes, I would also consider old-style center pulls. They have more than enough stopping power for a light tourer, have good clearance for reasonably wide tires and mudguards, are light, do not require any braze-ons and - to me at least - look much nicer that either cantis or V-brakes. (Dual-pivots are good but have less clearance for mudguards, and are a bit heavier.)


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## Tim Bennet. (30 Jan 2009)

Kirstie has given the definitive answer. If you are using drops and mudguards, the best option are


> the cyclocross 'frog leg' style cantilevers eg the Tektro CR520. They are just fantastic



People's reservations recently about cantilevers stem from Shimano's decision to 'castrate' the effectiveness of the design about ten years ago over fears of the wire bridle becoming snagged on very knobbly mtb tyres. Manufacturers like Avid followed suit so the choice was between different brands of the same ruined design. Only little specialist manufacturers continued to make workable designs (including Frogs Leg) for the cyclocross market, but now Tektro have introduced the CR520 (and the . . .?) so there is no longer any need to cobble together V-brakes with Travel agents or go around drilling anything.


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## Kirstie (30 Jan 2009)

Tim Bennet. said:


> now Tektro have introduced the CR520 (and the . . .?)



I think it's the 720 - posher, lighter version.
The original froglegs you can get on ebay (can't remember who makes them) from the US but they're about £120 a pair.


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## andym (30 Jan 2009)

Nigeyy said:


> One last thought: mini-V's. I've never tried them, but they are supposed to be compatible with short pulls, but for some reason have never been popular with short pull road brake levers; I can only guess they do not work as well as you'd expect -plus they would more than likely give trouble for fender clearance.



Mini-vs are intended to work with long-pull levers (eg 287vs) but will work successfully with short-pull - but the set up is more critical. They work fine with mudguards.


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## PpPete (30 Jan 2009)

+ 1 for the old style (frog leg) cantis.

I'm still using some Deore ones from before Shimano messed about with the design.
I've tried these and not really noticed any difference in performance, and they are fiddly to set up, so for a tourer those Tektros look the way to go.


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## psmiffy (30 Jan 2009)

Depends on how heavy you are and where you intend to cycle - I cycle heavy - after my first trip into the alps I ditched my canterlevers in favour of Vs - much easier on the forearms and more control - now using Magura HS33 - however if light


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## asterix (1 Feb 2009)

In the Pyrenees I used cantis. About half way I replaced the blocks with some I bought at a French bike shop and they were vast improvement over the aztecs. 

Nevertheless, with either the cantis were adequate in being able to stop a fully loaded tourer on such roads.


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## Tim Bennet. (1 Feb 2009)

Magura HS33s have to be a combination of all the worst bits of bike brakes.

You've got the complexity of hydraulics but still the wear and heating of a rim brake!


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## psmiffy (1 Feb 2009)

HS33 work a treat esp in rain, simple to adjust. very easy to maintain and my rim wear "appears" to be less


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## chris667 (1 Feb 2009)

I use V brakes on my Galaxy. Brilliant, because I can do all the adjustments with a simple multitool. I used to have cantis, but it was such a faff setting them up, I don't miss them.


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## Nigeyy (2 Feb 2009)

For some reason I thought they were meant to work with short pulls, but after you said that, I did a bit of googling. I think you're right, they are supposed to be used with long pulls, though apparently not very well with long pull or short pull. Also, quite a few posts I read did say that fender clearance was a problem -might be an issue of mudguard/fender manufacturer and model, don't know.

Also, reading some of the posts, it seems that mini-Vs seem to not be "full" v-brakes, yet not short pull compatible unless your rims are dead straight and with pads a micrometer away from the rim..... 

One day I'm going to have to try them to see what they are like (another brake system!).



andym said:


> Mini-vs are intended to work with long-pull levers (eg 287vs) but will work successfully with short-pull - but the set up is more critical. They work fine with mudguards.


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## Nigeyy (2 Feb 2009)

The new style cantis have v-brake style pad catridges -makes adjustment much, much easier. The old style cantis? You needed a *great* amount of patience to set them up properly!!! It used to be one of my least favourite jobs.



chris667 said:


> I use V brakes on my Galaxy. Brilliant, because I can do all the adjustments with a simple multitool. I used to have cantis, but it was such a faff setting them up, I don't miss them.


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## mickle (2 Feb 2009)

Legendary Suntour XC Pro cantilevers, including the optional SE (self energising) rear are still available from St John Street Cycles.


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## Rhythm Thief (2 Feb 2009)

I've always found cantis more than adequate. I've still got some of the old style ones in the bits box somewhere, but my Galaxy now has a mix of LX and XT short arm cantis. And they're fine.


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## chris667 (3 Feb 2009)

The reason I like Vs is because they couldn't possibly become simpler (apart from jamming your foot onto the wheel). Cantis can be great, but IMO the less parts I can have, the better.


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## e-rider (4 Feb 2009)

I have found that wide mtb mudguards don't always fit easily under v-brakes but cantis have more space - however, Vs definitely have more stopping power


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## bike_the_planet (12 Feb 2009)

stephenjubb said:


> Most tourist bikes come with Cantilever Brakes, yet from what I've read V Brakes are much better despite their being fewer accessories (i.e. brake levers for drop bars) available.
> 
> My questions are on a tourer would you prefer V Brakes or Cantilevers on a tourer and secondly why do tourers mostly always have cantilever brakes?



It's historical I think. In the 80s, both the fork blades and seat stays on tourers were closer together, mainly because of narrower rims and tyres, plus smaller clusters on the rear. Cantilevers also stuck out more (I remember one reviewer of the time likening them to Prince Charles' ears!). This gave them plenty of leverage (the brakes, I mean, not his ears...).

Modern cantis are more vertical and stays/fork blades are further apart. As a result, cantis don't have the mechanical advantage they used to have. The ones that use shoes that take the same pads as V brakes are the worst IMHO (eg Avid Shortys) as there's no provision for moving the pad closer to the rim. This means the cantilever remains mainly vertical severely limiting the amount of leverage you can apply to the rim.

The older ones that used to have the stud fitting blocks - like these - were good (still available cheaply by the way in almost every French hardware store!) because you could move them close to the rim, and the cantilever itself more horizontal as a result. This gives much more stopping force and makes them pretty good.

Whilst in France last year I stocked up on the old stud blocks. They worked a treat a 2€ a pair!

Cheers,


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