# Bye-Bye Basques - a sad day for pro-cycling



## Flying_Monkey (28 Jul 2013)

With reports that riders are being allowed to leave, it looks like it's finally the end of the line for Euskaltel-Euskadi, the team that proudly flew the flag for the Basque Country and produced many exciting (and for many non-Basques, unpronounceable!) climbers but which never quite delivered the results the Basque fans craved.

After the end of Rabobank, it looks like orange is an unfashionable colour in the pro-peloton, and we are much the worse for it. A sad day IMHO.


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## rich p (28 Jul 2013)

Yes, sad indeed. That state of the Spanish economy is affecting Spanish cycling all the way down to smaller racers being cancelled and others being shortened.
To be honest, I find it hard to believe that many non-cycling company gets value for money out of cycle team sponsorship. I do wonder if the CEOs of such companies are just keen on cycling, or are cyclists themselves.


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## Diggs (28 Jul 2013)

That really is sad news, given their proud culture and heritage I had a soft spot for the team (Imagine my exitement when I discovered Google translate could handle tweets in Basque!). As FM said, never fully lived up to the expectation but I guess that was part of the charm.
As far as Rich P's comments, I heard a podcast the other day interviewing Jonathan Vaughters talking about the cost aspect of running a team and paying its way (in particular u23 and women teams needing to pay their own way). Very interesting to hear it from his perspective.


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## Noodley (28 Jul 2013)

I was never a fan of them, I always had suspicions of murkiness.

Not only is it a sign of the state of the Spanish economy, but it may also be indicative of the changing nature and increasing globalisation of cycling away from it's European roots and the increasing costs associated with running a pro team; in years gone by it may have been possible for "small" national or regional companies to sponsor a team but that is becoming increasing difficult due to rider costs and expectations, the logistics of fulfilling commitments to world events and the expectations of fans. This will eventually result in the number of small regional races being depleted at the expense of larger events; and I extend this to semi-classics and classics as I fear they may not survive without a re-think by organisers about promotion beyond the "heartland" of supporters. I recently read a few articles which highlighted the number of events in southern Europe which had disappeared, many of the names would be familiar to anyone following cycling yet they are now gone.

I'm a cheery nobber, ain't I?

I also think that it is an opportunity for teams to review what is happening in the sport and come out of it stronger.


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## raindog (28 Jul 2013)

Bugger. And as if that ain't enough, JJ Cale died yesterday


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## oldroadman (28 Jul 2013)

Opportunity for Oleg Tinkov to buy himself his own team now he's fallen out with Mr Riis and Saxo-Tinkoff becomes just Saxobank (plus another new sponsor) at the end of the season? Team complete with world tour licence which is what he is after.
Of course, the "new" team will have to prove their sporting values and credibility to UCI before they get to play, but Katusha proved that is not a massive obstacle when you have the financial power to get top lawyers and courts involved.


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## Booyaa (28 Jul 2013)

[quote="rich p, post: 2570402, member: 500" I do wonder if the CEOs of such companies are just keen on cycling, or are cyclists themselves.[/quote]


The old Motorpoint team in the UK was sponsered by them because the CEO was well into his cycling. Think they pulled out the end of last year. I guess it is down to the FD's about how much they want to spend on sponsorship/CSR/advertisement.


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## laurence (28 Jul 2013)

they have been struggling for a while.

it's sad for me as i've been a fan from the early days. i loved the idea of a 'national' team and the feeder system the Eusdaki region had. i hope this element will survive.

Euskaltel have stayed with the team when it could have jumped ship. the team were due some funding from other Basque departments, but it turned out they wanted conditions - one being that the name of the Basque region would be written in the language of the Tour that the riders were racing in. they did used to do this for the TdF, but given the pro-tour schedule, it meant having loads of extra clothing made for one of races 9as the jersey would change year on year anyway), so the money never came.

there was a call for the team to leave the pro ranks due to the cost and also the decision to hire non Basque riders. maybe the team will rise again, but un the minor leagues.

i will miss the orange jerseys - and buying a new one every year.

gora Euskadi.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2013)

Sad news indeed about Euskaltel (Noodley's concerns notwithstanding) but the writing has been on the wall for a while. 

There's a chance they would have dropped off the World Tour this year anyway, given the lack of results and the need for the UCI to remove one team from the roster.


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## smutchin (29 Jul 2013)

Booyaa said:


> The old Motorpoint team in the UK was sponsered by them because the CEO was well into his cycling. Think they pulled out the end of last year. I guess it is down to the FD's about how much they want to spend on sponsorship/CSR/advertisement.


 
You've given me an idea... my pitch for the next series of The Apprentice: "Team Amstrad Procycling"

£250k wouldn't get us very far though.

What about the Phones4U bloke? He's a bit minted, isn't he?


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## thom (29 Jul 2013)

smutchin said:


> Sad news indeed about Euskaltel (Noodley's concerns notwithstanding) but the writing has been on the wall for a while.


Aye it is sad - of course they managed to hang on for so long as the writing on the wall was in Basque, so nobody had a scooby what it meant... ;-)


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## Monsieur Remings (30 Jul 2013)

Bloody hell, only just read this, how sad.

RIP Euskaltel. Where will Sanchez go I wonder? I hope this isn't bad news for Orbea either, being one of the few bike manufacturing cooperatives.

Having Basque friends in UK, I know how passionate they are about their country and I know, despite this, we'll continue to see the Basque flag as much as we see the Occitanian 'Cross of Toulouse' in the Pyrenees/elsewhere come holiday time, the TDF or during the Vuelta.

What a shame.


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Aug 2013)

It is confirmed. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/eus...that-it-will-disband-at-the-end-of-the-season


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Aug 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It is confirmed. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/eus...that-it-will-disband-at-the-end-of-the-season


I thought they were talking to Tinkov.


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Aug 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I thought they were talking to Tinkov.


 
There were rumours, but apparently he only wanted a Pro-Tour team, he wasn't going to keep anything about the current Euskaltel.


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## ianrauk (23 Sep 2013)

So the *Alonso deal* is now off.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Sep 2013)

Yes, I read that earlier. Confidentiality means that we may not know what the unbridgeable gap between EE and Alonso was. At least before the leaks start.... 

So, unless I misunderstood: Alonso's bought the licence but now doesn't have a team? Did I get that wrong?


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## laurence (23 Sep 2013)

ianrauk said:


> So the *Alonso deal* is now off.



looks like it, although it seems to change by the day. whatever happens, the Basque team is gone as Alonso would strip it of any Euskadi soul anyway.

Eskerrik asko, Euskadi


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## laurence (23 Sep 2013)

it may be back on...


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## laurence (23 Sep 2013)

or not... slightly mixed messages on twitter.


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## johnr (24 Sep 2013)

Whlst this is the least important aspect of the whole thing, a red, white and/or blue peleton (plus Sky and Cannondale) could mark the end of helicopter shots. Poor old Hugh Porter was struggling to dentify the teams in close ups during the ToB.


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## Flying_Monkey (24 Sep 2013)

Alonso says he still plans to set up a team for 2015. But that looks like that for Euskaltel-Euskadi...


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## laurence (24 Sep 2013)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Alonso says he still plans to set up a team for 2015. But that looks like that for Euskaltel-Euskadi...



his last attempt failed as well. he doesn't have a great track record really.


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## Saluki (24 Sep 2013)

smutchin said:


> You've given me an idea... my pitch for the next series of The Apprentice: "Team Amstrad Procycling"
> 
> £250k wouldn't get us very far though.
> 
> What about the Phones4U bloke? He's a bit minted, isn't he?


Not a terribly nice man though. More in to helicopters.


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## laurence (25 Oct 2013)

for fans of the orange, Prendas have some new items in - backpacks, hoodies, etc.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Oct 2013)

It's not all over yet! The Fundacion Euskadi is going to back a Continental development team, so the orange will be seen in some European races at least...


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## rich p (26 Oct 2013)

laurence said:


> for fans of the orange, Prendas have some new items in - backpacks, hoodies, etc.


 It's a bit of a fashion disaster though Laurence, innit?
Only a mug would be seen wearing that outfit on Guildford High Street!!


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## laurence (26 Oct 2013)

User said:


> the only issue I have, who and what are they developing, young upcoming riders which is excellent or solely young upcoming Basque riders which harks back to the days of outright discrimination by the Basque region in all its sports, when they excluded all non Basques from all its professional sports,



as opposed to the oppression of Basques by the spanish government, including banning of the language and deliberate migration of people into the region to dilute the culture?

you could argue that British Cycling does the same, if you're not british you don't get to be a part of their programme.


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## laurence (26 Oct 2013)

rich p said:


> It's a bit of a fashion disaster though Laurence, innit?
> Only a mug would be seen wearing that outfit on Guildford High Street!!



wait 'til the ToB next year - i'll have my Euskadi hoodie on!

this year i wore a Prendas top, although i did have an Euskaltel cap on.

the new stuff isn't that orange, mainly black with orange bits and EE logos. Prendas also sent me some rider photos as a present! i LOVE the prendas boys.


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## laurence (26 Oct 2013)

User said:


> those days are long gone, the basque "country" isn't a country, that's like saying it's ok for Northumberland to run a cycling team solely of people born in that part of England...it isn't so why should there be an exception because it's the Basques..



the Basque region is separate in terms of culture and is largely run as an autonomous region. 

why have a separate irish team when it is part of the british isles? 
why is there a separate scottish and welsh team in the commonwealth games?

France also has regional teams, to an extent.

why shoudn't northumberland have a development team for the region anyway?


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## Flying_Monkey (26 Oct 2013)

User said:


> because it's discriminatory plain and simple...
> 
> the other parts of your question, you really need me to answer these...



There's a certain irony in an Irishman telling the Basques to shut up and stop being so nationalistic...


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## Boris Bajic (26 Oct 2013)

More a sad day for the whole burlesque entertainment industry I should say... but what do I know?

Gora gora euskadi!


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## oldroadman (27 Oct 2013)

Well it's good to see that there will be an Euskadi team at some level, they were always great entertainment if you could avoid the riders who fell off! I can't see any reason why they should not be 100% Basque, if the sponsor wants a team on that basis, people seem to forget who is paying, and the old adage about pipers and tunes. If I was able to fund a team as, for example, a Lincolnshire man, and had help from the local county council, why should I and they, as funders, be told what riders we can contract?
Maybe those who sek to impose their views on others should think about putting their money where the mouth is, otherwise be quiet and accept that whoever pays has the say in what happens.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Oct 2013)

This is starting to be a bit silly. The Basques are as much a 'nation' as the Irish. The fact that their nationality is not territorially contiguous with a state right now is besides the point, as anyone with any knowledge of Irish history should appreciate. 

The nearest contemporary comparison is with a Catalan, Breton or Welsh team and guess what? Those exist in quite a few different sports.


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## beastie (28 Oct 2013)

User said:


> I have plenty of knowledge of Irish and Basque history, and I have had and still have lots of empathy for their cause, but that's beside the point... at lower levels in most sports "localism" is common practice but at the top end of any sport surely in this day and age it can't be acceptable.....


At the top end of any sport it is unlikely to be successful....
ie Yorkshire cricket.


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## oldroadman (28 Oct 2013)

The "new" Euskadi won't be top end (World Tour), they will be second division (pro-conti). Doubtless they will be in plenty of Spanish races. Anything else is at the discretion of organisers, and depends on how they perform. Therefore there is no reason why the funders should do anything other than find their riders from wherever they like. Just as an employer can select their workforce, so can a team owner select their riders and staff. As I said before, pipers and tunes, etc..


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Oct 2013)

User said:


> but at the top end of any sport surely in this day and age it can't be acceptable.....



I'd like to see you tell the Welsh rugby team this to their faces... I'm sure they'd quickly be able to disabuse you of your strange notions.


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## Flying_Monkey (31 Oct 2013)

User said:


> no need to, they are recognised as a national team who represent the welsh in international rugby, and yet I have strange notions..



Do you understand what '(inter)national' means when you use the word here? The Welsh are a 'nation' in the same way as the Basques and no more. They are not an independent territorial nation-state, but are a partly self-governing part of of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In other words, very similar to the Basques in their relationship to Spain. Sporting nationality does not necessarily map onto statehood. My case rests (etc)...


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## Lockring (31 Oct 2013)

For Basque Land, the better compare is Kosova. Wales, Irland, Scotland all are establish and recognise from many years. Not question of passport only - also of Madrid. Madrid hate Basque land people who want independent. 
Kosova is more the independent that the Basque Land with pasport but not with UN seat and not with money. We use Euro! We are not EU and we have a Euro!!!!!!!

You are EU and you have no Euro! We play footbol, but friendly only becuase UN and UEFA and FIFA say not a country. Sorry my english is not better. Compare Basque and Wales is not the good compare. Also not Irland also not scotland. Who will say in street 'aah yes the Basque Land is acountry'? Nobody will say this, but many will say of Wales and of Scotland. Funny for me how many British think that all world know what is Wales and Scotland and england and UK. Relly, nobody knows this and nobody care. It is a funny small story, like for us Kosove and Makedonia and Sandzak. Just a funy story, not a real land - (like liliput!). But you do with vote and we with a gun. But apart that the same. A funy story and nobody know difference only you.


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## DooDah (31 Oct 2013)

laurence said:


> as opposed to the oppression of Basques by the spanish government, including banning of the language and deliberate migration of people into the region to dilute the culture?
> 
> you could argue that British Cycling does the same, if you're not british you don't get to be a part of their programme.


I would imagine that is why it is called "British Cycling"


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## oldroadman (1 Nov 2013)

DooDah said:


> I would imagine that is why it is called "British Cycling"


 That would be the logical conclusion...Though you can hold a BC licence but not be British if you are resident, just the same as plenty of British riders who have a season away turn up at the odd British race with an French/Spanish/Italian/Belgian/Dutch licence. It's the UCI code that matters. Prefix GBR is the key. A clever pro gets a licence from the country which is cheaper, whether it's home country or the one you live in!


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