# The ultimate touring bike?



## Pale Rider (29 Sep 2020)

This Tout Terrain Silk Road must be close to the ultimate in flat bar tourers.

Clever features include a custom rack for Ortlieb panniers, a steering lock to prevent the loaded bike flopping over on the stand, and dropouts which include the dynamo connection.

USB charging with a back up battery in the head tube should keep your gadgets fired up, and the reviewer reckons it has the stiffest wheels available, and a super stiff frame for carrying heavy loads.

What he doesn't say is the weight, which I reckon must be a lot even for a steel tourer.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzNi8vzMJE


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## Cycleops (29 Sep 2020)

Seems a bit OTT even for a tourer but something like this appeals to money no object customer who wants the ultimate. Of course weight is going to suffer with these specs but pales into insignificance when fully loaded.


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## MichaelW2 (29 Sep 2020)

Seems like the kind of spec that German global tourists demand. Not sure about the bars, I would want alt hand positions so maybe add clipons.
The talk about wheel size and tyre availability is worth noting:
Manufacturers are phasing out premium tyre support for 26" and increasing it for 27.5.
I'm not sure if the 27.5 fashion has reached small town bikeshops in less well developed places. You could almost always bank on something in 26" MTB. In my experience (from year or 2 ago) , decent commuter tyres in 27.5 are not available in normal bike shops, they are special order or mail order items.


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## Pale Rider (29 Sep 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> Seems like the kind of spec that German global tourists demand. Not sure about the bars, I would want alt hand positions so maybe add clipons.
> The talk about wheel size and tyre availability is worth noting:
> Manufacturers are phasing out premium tyre support for 26" and increasing it for 27.5.
> I'm not sure if the 27.5 fashion has reached small town bikeshops in less well developed places. You could almost always bank on something in 26" MTB. In my experience (from year or 2 ago) , decent commuter tyres in 27.5 are not available in normal bike shops, they are special order or mail order items.



Not the best bike for getting fixed in the back of beyond.

Wheel failure would be a big nuisance because you have Herr Rohloff in the back and Herr Son up front.

I suppose for true off grid touring you would spec derailer gears.

Wheel size might not be a worry because if you had 650b you could fit a 26" wheel front or back.

A mate of mine does this in the winter because his studded tyres are 26".

No problems, although the lower bottom bracket means a pedal strike on corners is more likely.


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## MichaelW2 (29 Sep 2020)

Would an emergency 26" wheel on 8 spd hub fit onto and work with a higher end high cog count touring bike? You would need v brake fittings in addition to disk mounts.


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## Bonefish Blues (29 Sep 2020)

AS much as anything, lovely as it is, riding a tour on something of that value would focus the mind in unwanted directions, constantly worrying about the bike & its security. 1990s MTB conversion FTW


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## Oldhippy (29 Sep 2020)

As above, beautiful thing but I'd be terrified of leaving it anywhere.


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## Blue Hills (30 Sep 2020)

Well it's very nice and impressive that they have gone to so much trouble.
But very unnecessary I think.
And I don't think integrating stuff is necessarily a good idea - that battery in the frame for instance - very small (yes I know it's only intended to be a buffer) and will probably be tricky/expensive to replace.
Those supposedly magical world-beating wheels - they are just wheels built using Andra rims - available to anyone.
Or you can use Sputniks.
The front wheel lock looks handy but there are pretty simple ways of achieving the same thing.
Belt drive? - one chap from here had to abandon/interrupt a world journey because of issues with one of those I think.
Hardly a problem to get a new 8 or 9 speed chain if you need one.
The rack built into the frame is a nice idea (Tout have been doing that for years) but the rack/fitting "dedicated" to ortliebs is pretty bonkers. Ortliebs are very adjustable and once set up for a bike you are not going to be tinkering with them mid-trip.

As for being tough/go anywhere, I think the best way of achieving that is by using a decent frame (needn't be expensive) with bits that are easy to replace if the worst should happen.
Yes and I too would be worried about it being knicked - and if you left any bags on it, even for a short nip into somewhere, the impressiveness of the package might encourage folk to think valuable stuff lurked in your bags. As in "what sort of person rides a bike like that"

So, basically, no.

Will be sticking to my tourer built from a bike that cost me £30 - it has Tubus racks, ortlieb panniers, Sputnik built wheels.
Pretty relaxed about leaving that anywhere.
Or if feeling posher, the Hewitt.
Anyone else, I'd advise checking out Spa.
You don't need to pay much over £1,000 for a top-class tourer, £2,000 tops, even now with companies continuously testing how much they can persuade folk to pay for a bike.


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## Mike Ayling (30 Sep 2020)

Ok, a lot of bike for 4,400 Euros
A Thorn Nomad possibly in the GBP 2,500 to 3,000 range.
I have two Thorn Rohloff bikes, aTouring Tandem and a Mercury, both with Rohloff and I will never have a derailleur bike again.
There have been relatively few instances of Rohloff hubs failing on tour and in all reported instances Rohloff came to the party very quickly with a repair or replacement hub. I have not read an account of Rohloff failure for quite a few years now.
I am not a fan of the drive belts and still believe in chains.
For that price you will be getting hand built wheels which are ulikely to fail.
You can tour on anything but if you can afford it get a great bike, there was someone asking for suggestions to spend 6,000 quid on a road bike recently!

Mike


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## Vantage (30 Sep 2020)

I think my view on what is lovely or beautiful may differ to some. That thing is fugly as a muppitfluffer. 
I'm with @Blue Hills on this, too many 'niche' parts on there. A reliable tourer is one built with commonly available parts in case of breakages/failures.


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## matticus (30 Sep 2020)

Vantage said:


> I'm with @Blue Hills on this, too many 'niche' parts on there. A reliable tourer is one built with commonly available parts in case of breakages/failures.


Reliable parts aren't always the commonly available ones - there can be compromises. (e.g. in France there are more places to get a French car fixed than a Malaysian one; draw your own conclusions ... ;-) )


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## Vantage (30 Sep 2020)

Ah but I didn't say reliable parts. I said reliable tourer 
A snapped chain is much easier to fix/replace than a snapped belt.
Roholf hubs as reliable as they are aren't all that common or easy to fix whereas your average everyday bike is equipped with freehub, cassette and dérailleurs. Available everywhere.


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## matticus (30 Sep 2020)

Yes yes, I know what you said :P

But would you REALLY want *(e.g.)* a 10kg hub that breaks every 100 miles, just because you know the next village can fix it (unless it's a weekend)?


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## matticus (30 Sep 2020)

Vantage said:


> Ah but I didn't say reliable parts. I said reliable tourer
> A snapped chain is much easier to fix/replace than a snapped belt.


If you were snapping chains every 10 miles (maybe because you'd bought a duff batch, whatever), YOU might call that a reliable tourer; I know _I_ wouldn't!


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## Vantage (30 Sep 2020)

A 10kg hub that breaks every 100 miles and a chain that snaps every 10 miles? 
What the hell are you riding?


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## matticus (30 Sep 2020)

I guess you don't understand abstract examples. Oh well, I tried.


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## Blue Hills (30 Sep 2020)

matticus said:


> Reliable parts aren't always the commonly available ones - there can be compromises. (e.g. in France there are more places to get a French car fixed than a Malaysian one; draw your own conclusions ... ;-) )


cars? I think you are in the wrong place.
I'm afraid your comment is only relevant if its pointing out how some bike folks would just love to make bikes as complicated and un-user servicable as the modern car.
As for France - home of Decathlon - as long as you aren't riding a piece of exotica, no probs fixing/sorting/replacing anything.
Never seen belt drive componentry in there though.


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## Oldhippy (30 Sep 2020)

Weirdly it was a pain getting Shimano parts in Japan early 90's. You'd think being Japanese and in country and all that.


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## matticus (30 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> cars? I think you are in the wrong place.


It does seem that way sometimes ...


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## HobbesOnTour (30 Sep 2020)

@Blue Hills is pretty bang on the money, but having said that some people "need" the latest and best to be able to go anywhere. 

The thing with touring is that it is different - you and your bike are in different places, operating in different environments and Murphy's Law reigns supreme! 

You can have the strongest wheels and they're great ....until you fall into a drain. 

You can have the best dynohub until that same drain kills it stone dead and discover that in a huge country there is one agent!  (But he turns out to be a superstar!)

I've read more than once of problems with a Rohloff adding delay or stress. It's possible that folks abused it, didn't prep properly, but given the essence of touring is adventure (in my opinion) I'd prefer to be able to roll with the adventure than have to sit it out, waiting.

My "disasters" on the bike have all turned out to be good experiences and memories. Sometimes even funny!

Then there's the $$! That adds up to a lot more worry (at least it would for me) and takes a whack of budget from actual touring (at least it would for me).


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## Eziemnaik (30 Sep 2020)

Blue hills mentioned Decathlon
For 1250e they are about to offer a touring bike with a tip top transmission, dynamo/charger, proven good quality, common components and integrated racks - the cheap ultimate touring bike?
If you buy from Spa, you can get similar, well equipped bike for the same amount and have some 3000e spare for your trips


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## Blue Hills (30 Sep 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> Blue hills mentioned Decathlon
> For 1250e they are about to offer a touring bike with a tip top transmission, dynamo/charger, proven good quality, common components and integrated racks - the cheap ultimate touring bike?
> If you buy from Spa, you can get similar, well equipped bike for the same amount and have some 3000e spare for your trips


Interesting. Surprised they are doing a full on tourer, still a bit niche. I would hope it's a 9 speed triple but in today's market a fair chance it won't be?
Edit to my above references to my tourers - also have a ridgeback expedition. Also plan to build up another thing that will be able to tour, based on something that cost me £21.
For anyone who would like to experiment with dynamo charging, decathlon also do wheels with a shimano dynamo for £30 - 700 and 26inch sizes.


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## Eziemnaik (30 Sep 2020)

Its 3x10 with xt I think so no mix and match unfortunately but still beats some offerings with road groupsets
I would be perfectly happy with 9sp but the highest level nowadays is alivio I think (which is really the same as altus/acera) - luckily Spa and SJS have plenty of alternatives

My ideal offroad touring bike would be a rohloff version of trek 1120 but it is already eyewateringly expensive - add rohloff and you could buy 10hybrids which in the end would do the same job


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## Blue Hills (30 Sep 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> Its 3x10 with xt I think so no mix and match unfortunately but still beats some offerings with road groupsets
> I would be perfectly happy with 9sp but the highest level nowadays is alivio I think (which is really the same as altus/acera) - luckily Spa and SJS have plenty of alternatives
> 
> My ideal offroad touring bike would be a rohloff version of trek 1120 but it is already eyewateringly expensive - add rohloff and you could buy 10hybrids which in the end would do the same job


I thought much of the new alivio was similar to what used to be deore?


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## Eziemnaik (1 Oct 2020)

To my eye all three are same same but different xd


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## Blue Hills (1 Oct 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> To my eye all three are same same but different xd


Xd?


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## mickle (1 Oct 2020)

That's not a touring bike. Touring bikes have drop bars.


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## Eziemnaik (1 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Xd?


I see little difference between these groups
There was a thread on the other forum how technically they are almost the same thing (in the end altus may be 5% heavier but but difference in performance will be just as great as that between Dura ace and Ultegra)
Now the question is whether the ultimate touring bike needs anything more?


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## Blue Hills (1 Oct 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> I see little difference between these groups
> There was a thread on the other forum how technically they are almost the same thing (in the end altus may be 5% heavier but but difference in performance will be just as great as that between Dura ace and Ultegra)
> Now the question is whether the ultimate touring bike needs anything more?


Probably not - I saw a £2,000 touring bike a few years ago that had some altus bits. Am just about to build a light tourer and that will have an XT front mech (either NOS or very lightly used second hand) as I rate the build quality of those things - strong springs. It may also get an XT rear mech. The front mech is very definitely discontinued (9 speed) - in truth these days I think it's better to build up your own tourers as you can use these quality tough parts that are no longer current - if you buy new the manufacturers don't have access to these and will pretty almost always these days force you to have a 10 speed set-up for no benefit whatsoever.
Congratulations to Ridgeback for sticking to 9 speed with their 26 inch wheel expedition tourer - that cost me £700 new in a sale and I reckon is effectively the equal of many of the expensive things - or it will be with the minimal cost of some new wheels. That has a drivetrain which is a mixture of old Deore and new Alivio.
Many of my bikes these days have Shimano V brakes and I understand that these are all pretty much the same whatever series they brand them as. Spare V brake bits can of course be had anywhere. And I'm sure will be as long as I'm pedalling.


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## mjr (1 Oct 2020)

mickle said:


> That's not a touring bike. Touring bikes have drop bars.


Only if your mother was a hamster.

Germans would say a touring bike should have those ugly O shaped bars. Most of the world don't care and ride with some sort of swept risers.

I also don't get the hub gear fear which is rearing its ugly head again in this thread. They work. And if they stop working and Rohloff doesn't deliver their famous service, there's probably a Sturmey Archer "Always Works" kicking around which can get you to the next multiday stop in a place where you can get it sorted properly!


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## mjr (1 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> The front mech is very definitely discontinued (9 speed)


Ok. I know what you mean (chain width) but is anyone else picturing a bike with 9 chainrings now?


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## Ian H (1 Oct 2020)

Drop-bars for me, but I'm very particular about the shape. Derailleurs allow me to choose the gears I want. I want braze-ons for mudguards, racks, 3 bottle-cages. And a well-designed, well-made frame.


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## MichaelW2 (1 Oct 2020)

Shimano dynohubs are a bitch to service the bearings. Not tour rated for back of beyond travel.
The very high end groupsets have too much lightness added during manufacture. Upper-midrange has always been the optimum although Shimano lower range bits are totally good enough for anything.


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## Blue Hills (1 Oct 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> Shimano dynohubs are a bitch to service the bearings.


As I understand it there are NO dynohubs which allow you to service the bearings.
I agree it is a pig.
I tend to think you'd be OK with a Shimano as long as you weren't off on a mega mega trip.


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## mjr (1 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> As I understand it there are NO dynohubs which allow you to service the bearings.


SJS sell new bearings for the SA X-FDD but I understand fitting the right (HSS036 - the left is 035) is a pig involving re soldering the connector plug.

But they last years so fine for most touring.


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## HobbesOnTour (1 Oct 2020)

Just on the dynohub thing...
I hummed and hawed over upgrading my Shimano dynohub to a SON. In the end I did it as part of a wheel upgrade and I'm very, very glad that I did.
Having relatively recently wrecked the SON by falling into a drain, I received a completely new hub, gratis, from SON. 
I can't recommend them highly enough. Yes, more expensive, but worth it for the service if and when needed.


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## Pale Rider (2 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Having relatively recently wrecked the SON by falling into a drain



Wasn't it SON that had lots of problems with water ingress?

Yes, they replaced it, but it would have been better if they made the sodding thing properly water resistant in the first place.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Wasn't it SON that had lots of problems with water ingress?
> 
> Yes, they replaced it, but it would have been better if they made the sodding thing properly water resistant in the first place.


As someone who rather late in his cycling gear got down to servicing wheel bearings (not actually difficult) I am wary of paying a lot (ie for a SON) for a hub I can't service myself. And can't even get serviced in this country. I understand that to get it serviced at all you have to take the hub out of the wheel. THAT is serious faff - and expense. Postage, servicing charge, getting it built back into a wheel.
spose life/the decision would be simpler if I was german living in germany but I wasn't born so lucky.


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## Vantage (2 Oct 2020)

SP have the same servicing practice, the hub needs to be sent back to them. They use cartridge bearings and there are one or two reports of folk doing it themselves but it's not a job I personally feel up to chancing.
Shimano I think as Brucey discovered are pretty much a use till they die then replace entirely product.
Come to think of it, I don't know of a single dyno hub that can actually be user serviced. Ridiculous really.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> Come to think of it, I don't know of a single dyno hub that can actually be user serviced. Ridiculous really.


Yes it is - part of me is waiting for this to be sorted - one would think it would have been by now - if anyone would sort it one would expect it to be the germans with their widespread use of dynohubs and large internal market . I don't like cartridge bearings but if someone would come up with a user-servicable dynohub which did demand them I would still bite.

My musings are I admit from a position of technical ignorance about any complications to do with letting joe public anywhere near the electronic gubbins.
(doing some trip rides at the mo with Decathlon's £30 shimano dyno wheel - my needs are less demanding as the dynowheel is only used on trips - a standard Deore hub in a sputnik wheel goes in the rest of the time)

edit - re your reference to the esteemed brucey, I seem to recall/have the impression that he seems to kind of come out on the side of shimano, essentially because you can have a fair few for the price of a SON. Since he's an engineer, with a natural tendency to service stuff and keep it running, his coming out on that side of the debate carries a lot of weight with me.


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## mjr (2 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> Come to think of it, I don't know of a single dyno hub that can actually be user serviced. Ridiculous really.


I direct the honourable hentleman to the answer I gave some posts ago: Sturmey Archer's X(L)-FDD


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## avecReynolds531 (2 Oct 2020)

Thanks for an interesting thread: the Tout Terrain has a lot of design & components that make you think about what a touring bike should be - I recall seeing their integrated racks many years ago. 

I couldn't spend this amount of money - a lottery win might change ideas though.

Very happy on 3 x 8 Deore, 700c with 35mm Marathon Plus tyres, flat bar with ends, and v brakes. That set up is tough, versatile & reliable, 8 speed chains & cassettes are good value, plus the bike is both ugly & not worth much. 

Spa offer a 725 framed 8 speed flat bar tourer for £850 - good to see availability of such bikes.


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## MichaelW2 (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> As I understand it there are NO dynohubs which allow you to service the bearings.
> I agree it is a pig.
> I tend to think you'd be OK with a Shimano as long as you weren't off on a mega mega trip.


My Shimano dynohub has survived a decade of commuting without servicing. In normal use they are fine but touring bikes get exposed to abnormal abuse, eg fording muddy rivers, flooded streets, falling into big dirty puddles, open ferry sea crossings lashed by big waves. Some of the dynohubs have cartridge bearings which can be replaced and often serviced.


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## Cycleops (2 Oct 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> Seems like the kind of spec that German global tourists demand.


Perfect for a quick tour into Poland.


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## Vantage (2 Oct 2020)

mjr said:


> I direct the honourable hentleman to the answer I gave some posts ago: Sturmey Archer's X(L)-FDD



Ooooooooooh that looks interesting. 
I've just read a report by a chap who's bent the fork on his bike using the braking force of that hub 
Maybe worth considering if I ever rebuild the front wheel.


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## Eziemnaik (2 Oct 2020)

Cycleops said:


> Perfect for a quick tour into Poland.









As faras German bikes go I have always fancied this
https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-activa-pro-pinion-12-2677744


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## Pale Rider (2 Oct 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> As faras German bikes go I have always fancied this
> https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-activa-pro-pinion-12-2677744



Bordering on cheap for a high spec German trekking bike.

Although the top 18 speed Pinion gearbox is an extra 1,000 euro.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> Some of the dynohubs have cartridge bearings which can be replaced and often serviced.


User servicable ones?
If so I'd be interested to learn of them.
What's the model of your old faithful shimano dynohub?
This by the way is the one that comes with the Decathlon wheel at £30 (less than the hub costs alone from many sources)
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/nexus-c3000-int7/DH-C3000-3N-QR.html
I did manage to get some extra grease into the non electronic gubbins side, but didn't touch the business side - too scared/wary after reading stuff from folk far more able than me.
By the by, taking a tip from a techwhizz I trust, I did loosen the hub up on the bearings as soon as I bought it - it did seem to be on the tight side.


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## Ian H (2 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Wasn't it SON that had lots of problems with water ingress?
> 
> Yes, they replaced it, but it would have been better if they made the sodding thing properly water resistant in the first place.



I have five SONs of all the versions, all working. The oldest went back for service a while back (noisy bearings) and was returned with mods, so better than new.


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## Pale Rider (2 Oct 2020)

I doubt dyno bearings are a concern for most riders.

They are famously long lasting, and in the case of Shimano, the unit itself is fairly cheap.

Aggro if it fails in Patagonia, but you could fit an ordinary wheel and no expedition cyclist worth his salt would travel without back up lights.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

mjr said:


> I direct the honourable hentleman to the answer I gave some posts ago: Sturmey Archer's X(L)-FDD


Interesting - I didn't know about that.
Why isn't it better known?
One would think Spa would do it if it was so good/sensible?
You can totally service the bearings without any risk of screwing up the electronics?
Would it charge powerbanks OK?
I must say I know nothing about drum brakes or keeping them running/servicing them.
Would be interesred in any resources on this unit.

It does of course mean you have to keep the dynohub on the bike all the time, something I don't tend to do.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I doubt dyno bearings are a concern for most riders.
> 
> They are famously long lasting, and in the case of Shimano, the unit itself is fairly cheap.


I'm a beginner at this lark so can't really offer expertise on the longevity of shimano dynohubs - I do know from taking apart their otherwise excellent hubs that they tend to put very little grease in them though, which mystifies me. That's why I would like to get inside the dynohubs. I also once found a bit of grit inside a very new Shimano hub that came in a Spa handbuilt wheel. I had to change a cone and the hub is still a little compromised.


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## Vantage (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Why isn't it better known?



Drum brakes innit? Not exactly fashionable in this day and age. Despite the fact they work.


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## Pale Rider (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I'm a beginner at this lark so can't really offer expertise on the longevity of shimano dynohubs - I do know from taking apart their otherwise excellent hubs that they tend to put very little grease in them though, which mystifies me. That's why I would like to get inside the dynohubs. I also once found a bit of grit inside a very new Shimano hub that came in a Spa handbuilt wheel. I had to change a cone and the hub is still a little compromised.



At least you understand how hubs work, which is more than me.

All I can say is my Shimano dynohub did 5,000+ trouble free miles before I sold the bike.

No wear/play I could detect, so I reckon it would likely do 5,000 more.

Which wouldn't take me around the world, but were I doing that I suppose I would take the leap of faith that a £200 German dyno is superior.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Ian H said:


> I have five SONs of all the versions, all working. The oldest went back for service a while back (noisy bearings) and was returned with mods, so better than new.


Do you build your own wheels (would simplify sending it off)
Can I ask how much it cost, including all shipping costs?
How much use had it had?


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## Eziemnaik (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Interesting - I didn't know about that.
> Why isn't it better known?
> One would think Spa would do it if it was so good/sensible?
> You can totally service the bearings without any risk of screwing up the electronics?
> ...


You can trawl CUK forum. Brucey seems to be a fan.

I agree SA hub look interesting but damn, it is porky.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> Drum brakes innit? Not exactly fashionable in this day and age. Despite the fact they work.


If I could be persuaded it was a good practical system for touring and general use, I wouldn't care.
I don't care much for fashion these days.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

Eziemnaik said:


> I agree SA hub look interesting but damn, it is porky.


True, but the cheapo shimano I linked to above aint exactly beautiful.


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## MichaelW2 (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> User servicable ones?
> If so I'd be interested to learn of them.
> What's the model of your old faithful shimano dynohub?
> This by the way is the one that comes with the Decathlon wheel at £30 (less than the hub costs alone from many sources)
> ...


KASAI Dynacoil FS is field serviceable.

My Shimano dynohub is the XT grade disk hub. 10 years of 2x6 mile commuting.


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## Ian H (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Do you build your own wheels (would simplify sending it off)
> Can I ask how much it cost, including all shipping costs?
> How much use had it had?


I build my own wheels. Cost, as I recall, was £64 total via SJS.
Mileage? Several 1000, but couldn't give a figure. Just checked and I certainly used it all year in 2015, including Paris-Brest, and it was about ten years old then.


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## Blue Hills (2 Oct 2020)

MichaelW2 said:


> KASAI Dynacoil FS is field serviceable.


Interesting.
I found this:
https://bikepacking.com/news/kasai-dynacoil-fs-dynamo-hub/

though some of the comments seem to say that you still can't effectively get at the bearings on the electronics side.
Do you know more?
Maybe also of concern to @Vantage one of the comments says that their SP failed after only 1,000 miles not in Outer Mongolia but in Uganda - bit closer to Bolton possibly.


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## HobbesOnTour (2 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Wasn't it SON that had lots of problems with water ingress?
> 
> Yes, they replaced it, but it would have been better if they made the sodding thing properly water resistant in the first place.


Ehm, it had nothing to do with water.
This is the drain....






Front wheel fell into a wider section, resulting in a pringled wheel, dead hub and very embarassed rider.

The whole thing was entirely user error😊

As for water ingress, I've not come across anything specific in relation to SON, other than it's not a good idea to immerse it in water - but the same applies to normal hubs and bottom brackets.

(Straightening the wheel involved a block of wood and some jumping up and down. A fun experience and my whole interaction with the local agent, and his electrical and wheel building friends was very enjoyable!)

As regards servicing....
A new Son is service free for 50,000km (and there are reports of people going further). I use rim brakes so I'd be expecting to be able to coordinate service and new rim. 
As it is the clock has been set back to zero on that one!


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## Vantage (2 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Maybe also of concern to @Vantage one of the comments says that their SP failed after only 1,000 miles not in Outer Mongolia but in Uganda - bit closer to Bolton possibly.



I get the feeling their qc is a little higgilty piggilty. I've seen those reports of premature wear/failure but I've also seen reports of them lasting in excess of 20,000 miles. 
I'll see what happens with mine but I don't plan on ever venturing outside the UK.


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## matticus (2 Oct 2020)

1 failure after 1,000 miles? Most vehicle manufacturers would be happy with that!

It's the nature of mass manufacturing - and if you want a bespoke dyno-hub (to get better QC) I would imagine it costing 4 figures.
(I work for a bespoke engineering company albeit in a very different field! It costs money to get failure rates down to "almost never".)


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## mjr (2 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> Ooooooooooh that looks interesting.
> I've just read a report by a chap who's bent the fork on his bike using the braking force of that hub
> Maybe worth considering if I ever rebuild the front wheel.


I can well believe it. My XL-FDD is fitted to a Dutchie with a substantial fork and it can stop it from my typical speed very abruptly, easily jack-knifing the trailer if fitted. I suspect it would easily fold my light sports roadster's thinner fork. The smaller X-FDD is probably more than adequate for almost all bikes: as long as you have compatible levers (caliper pull not V, IIRC, but SA branded levers are available) and keep the cable adjusted, you'll lose traction long before the brake is fully applied.



Blue Hills said:


> Interesting - I didn't know about that.
> Why isn't it better known?
> One would think Spa would do it if it was so good/sensible?
> You can totally service the bearings without any risk of screwing up the electronics?
> Would it charge powerbanks OK?


It's not better known because British touring cyclists seem to hate drum brakes.
Spa only sell Sturmey Archer fixed-gear hubs - I don't know if that's due to Spa's reputed quirkiness.
No servicing is without risk (I had a heck of a job with a simple road bike front hub a month or two ago) and detaching/reattaching the connector plug is reportedly a pig.
I believe it will charge powerbanks but I've still not fitted the USB port I bought for mine! I blame this year's main cycling holiday being postponed by some little crisis.



> I must say I know nothing about drum brakes or keeping them running/servicing them.
> Would be interesred in any resources on this unit.


http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/x-fdd has the spec, parts diagram and user manual (the standard version, not the XL).
https://dorkythorpy.blogspot.com/2013/02/sturmey-archer-xl-fdd-dynamo-and-drum.html is one review of the XL.
https://smutpedaller.blogspot.com/2012/02/sturmey-archer-xl-fdd-x-rd3-review.html is another, which I think might be the one @Vantage saw who eventually managed to bend the forks.



> It does of course mean you have to keep the dynohub on the bike all the time, something I don't tend to do.


There is also the X-FD which doesn't have the second D for Dynamo on it, and I think you could use the same reaction arm clip on both X-FD and X-FDD (or XL-FD and XL-FDD) but the weight saving is only 450g.



Eziemnaik said:


> You can trawl CUK forum. Brucey seems to be a fan.
> 
> I agree SA hub look interesting but damn, it is porky.


1.22kg for hub, dynamo and brakes is reportedly in the same ballpark as a Shimano hub dynamo plus disc brakes. I see that there's a recently-launched Shimano roller-brake hub dynamo DH-C6000-2R which is described as "lighter and more compact structure" but it's 960g and I think you have to add the roller brake itself which doesn't list its weight so I suspect it may weigh more than SA in total!

Plus I bet it's like other Shimano hubs and they won't sell you most of the parts you'd want to service it: if it develops problems or simply wears out, they want you to junk it and buy a new hub. Throwaway society.


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## mjr (2 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> The whole thing was entirely user error😊


Not entirely - drains should not have their slots running in the direction of travel for all sorts of reasons, including increased likelihood of motorist wheels stoving the drain in, which I suspect may be the cause of the bigger hole to the left.

In short: it was a trap!

(edited because: fark autocorrect!)


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## Eziemnaik (3 Oct 2020)

mjr said:


> I can well believe it. My XL-FDD is fitted to a Dutchie with a substantial fork and it can stop it from my typical speed very abruptly, easily jack-knifing the trailer if fitted. I suspect it would easily fold my light sports roadster's thinner fork. The smaller X-FDD is probably more than adequate for almost all bikes: as long as you have compatible levers (caliper pull not V, IIRC, but SA branded levers are available) and keep the cable adjusted, you'll lose traction long before the brake is fully applied.
> 
> 
> It's not better known because British touring cyclists seem to hate drum brakes.
> ...


Very good point, however as I would use (when possible) V-brakes or mini vs the difference would be greater. But in a grander scheme of things whats a half kg when you carry extra 30kg of luggage?


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## Pale Rider (4 Oct 2020)

mjr said:


> Not entirely - drains should not have their slots running in the direction of travel for all sorts of reasons, including increased likely hood of motorist wheels stoving the drain in, which I suspect may be the cause of the bigger hole to the left.
> 
> In short: it was a trap!



On a similar note, a manhole cover is circular and a drain cover is rectangular - in the UK if not elsewhere.

The reason is the circular cover cannot fall down the hole onto the man.

The rectangular drain cover could fall into the hole, but that hole will only be about a metre deep.

I sometimes see covers wrongly described in news reports, which as a grammar/written language Nazi, annoys me.



matticus said:


> 1 failure after 1,000 miles? Most vehicle manufacturers would be happy with that!
> 
> It's the nature of mass manufacturing - and if you want a bespoke dyno-hub (to get better QC) I would imagine it costing 4 figures.



Good post.

Few people understand the maker's definition of quality will often be the number of failures in a given number of units, not the quality of the unit itself.

Which, to drag this back to dynamos, explains why one poster will say Shimano/SON/SP dynos are great, and another poster will say Shimano/SON/SP dynos are rubbish.



matticus said:


> It costs money to get failure rates down to "almost never".)



Rohloff is a good example.

Their failure rate does appear to be almost never.

I've only seen one believable account of failure online, and never known one fail personally.

But such quality control costs money, in this case anything up to 10 or 12 times the price of the competition.


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## HobbesOnTour (4 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> On a similar note, a manhole cover is circular and a drain cover is rectangular - in the UK if not elsewhere.
> 
> The reason is the circular cover cannot fall down the hole onto the man.
> 
> ...


If I was spending the kind of money needed for the bike in the op, I'd be expecting to take it to places where drains, covers, manhole covers etc. are not quite as consistent in terms of shape, design, material or even existence!



Pale Rider said:


> Which, to drag this back to dynamos, explains why one poster will say Shimano/SON/SP dynos are great, and another poster will say Shimano/SON/SP dynos are rubbish.


I haven't seen anyone here say any hub is rubbish. I recommended SON, not for the hub (I ran a Shimano before using a SON and was unable to notice any difference).



> I can't recommend them highly enough. Yes, more expensive, but *worth it for the service* if and when needed.





Pale Rider said:


> Rohloff is a good example.
> 
> Their failure rate does appear to be almost never.
> 
> But such quality control costs money, in this case anything up to 10 or 12 times the price of the competition.



Stephen Peel of this parish abandoned his tour in France due to Rohloff/frame incompatibility;
Tom Bruce had Rohloff issues in China (Every Inch of the way) 
And that's just two out of my head. 
On top of that I've come across more than a few references over the years of people getting stuck for a while, due to Rohloff issues. The search function on CGOAB will throw up examples, I'm sure - that's mainly where I would have seen them - often written by one person about another.

At the end of the day some people want a bombproof choice and hope that nothing goes wrong. Others prefer a keep-it-running on the road option.


With any purchase there ate a multitude of factors to consider and we'll all weigh them differently.
If considering investing in something like a Rohloff/Son it is worth remembering that the warranty only applies to the original purchaser.


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## Blue Hills (4 Oct 2020)

Apologies hobbes, you have probably already mentioned somewhere.
But a question.
(And i appreciate your recent great son warranty outcome)
If you noticed no difference between the running of the shimano and son, why did you go for the son? (Since i presume you had no drain premonition)


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## HobbesOnTour (4 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Apologies hobbes, you have probably already mentioned somewhere.
> But a question.
> (And i appreciate your recent great son warranty outcome)
> If you noticed no difference between the running of the shimano and son, why did you go for the son? (Since i presume you had no drain premonition)


50,000 km without a service and a "reputed" excellent customer service.
(I don't need to use "reputed" anymore)
I'd have been looking to get the Shimano serviced several times in parts of the world where there are (practically) no dynohubs. 
I'm also not a fan of the plastic cap Shimano supply to connect to the hub. A small branch cracked one on me, although that's not a reason to get a new hub


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## Bonefish Blues (4 Oct 2020)

Would the SA hub (in non-dyno form) be tandem capable/suitable? Anyone offer a view?


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## matticus (4 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> *At the end of the day some people want a bombproof choice and hope that nothing goes wrong. Others prefer a keep-it-running on the road option.*
> 
> With any purchase there ate a multitude of factors to consider and we'll all weigh them differently.


Exactly - everything is a compromise. "Reliabilty" comes in different shapes-n-sizes!


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## Mike Ayling (5 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> If I was spending the kind of money needed for the bike in the op, I'd be expecting to take it to places where drains, covers, manhole covers etc. are not quite as consistent in terms of shape, design, material or even existence!
> 
> 
> I haven't seen anyone here say any hub is rubbish. I recommended SON, not for the hub (I ran a Shimano before using a SON and was unable to notice any difference).
> ...



I haven't read Tom Bruce's book but on his website he writes:
Rohloff kindly provided me with a fantastic Rohloff Speedhub and *loads of support on the road *- 

_*Stephen Peel of this parish abandoned his tour in France due to Rohloff/frame incompatibility;*_

This will not occur with a Tout Terrain, Thorn or any bike designed to use a Rohloff.
Retro fitting a Rohloff should only be attempted by someone who does not deviate from the instructions provided by Rohloff!

If you don't like Rohloff hubs just don't buy one but for me I will never buy a derailleur driven bike.

Mike


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Oct 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> I haven't read Tom Bruce's book but on his website he writes:
> Rohloff kindly provided me with a fantastic Rohloff Speedhub and *loads of support on the road *-


First of all, it appears like you're shouting.
I have read the book and I am aware that the whole bike was given to him gratis.
Does the fact that he got loads of support on the road not emphasise the fact that he needed loads of support on the road?



Mike Ayling said:


> _*Stephen Peel of this parish abandoned his tour in France due to Rohloff/frame incompatibility;*_
> 
> This will not occur with a Tout Terrain, Thorn or any bike designed to use a Rohloff.
> Retro fitting a Rohloff should only be attempted by someone who does not deviate from the instructions provided by Rohloff!


I read his blog pretty much live, I think a lot of it is gone now because there's a book out or on the way.
If I recall correctly, he was riding a Koga World Traveller, they're built to order, and are designed for Rohloffs. This wasn't a retrobuild.
If I recall the issue correctly, Rohloff had tweaked something, Koga hadn't accommodated that in the design and the use of a belt rather than a chain exacerbated the problem.
It's quite a bold statement to make that x brand would never have that problem. I believe (it's been a few years) there was some infighting between Rohloff & Koga at the time as to where the responsibility lay.



Mike Ayling said:


> If you don't like Rohloff hubs just don't buy one but for me I will never buy a derailleur driven bike.
> 
> Mike



For the record, I have nothing against Rohloff hubs. As I said upthread, everyone has different motivations. I don't believe it's constructive to question people's motivations, but if I have a bit of pertinent info I like to throw it in the pot. The point stands: Rohloffs are pretty bullet-proof until they're not. When they're not there's a whole level of complexity and logistics involved to get them going again.
Happy Rohloff Riding!


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## Mike Ayling (5 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> First of all, it appears like you're shouting.
> I have read the book and I am aware that the whole bike was given to him gratis.
> Does the fact that he got loads of support on the road not emphasise the fact that he needed loads of support on the road?
> 
> ...


I think that the convention (which I personally believe is a load of carp) is that TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS is considered to be shouting. I used a large font in bold to emphasise the point I was trying to make.

IMNSHO Koga might have missed the memo about the upgrade from Rohloff or decided that is was not a real issue to respond to. Not everyone likes everyone else in the EU and I imagine that the Dutch have little time for those pesky Germans who invaded them during the war.

Re belt drive there is a journal on CycleBlaze by a Canadian couple who bought their Tout Terrain bikes from the American agent. One of the the bikes was experiencing excessive wear of the belt and sprocket but their concerns were brushed off by the American agent. Anyway they started their tour in Europe and went to TT HQ in Germany who diagnosed an incorrect belt line and replaced the belt and sprocket and straightened the belt line and all was well thereafter.


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## Pale Rider (5 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Stephen Peel of this parish abandoned his tour in France due to Rohloff/frame incompatibility;



That was a strange one.

I recall asking Peel a couple of questions at the time to try to establish what his problem was, but he never answered.

One thing is for sure - his Rohloff hub never failed.

Someone might have bodged the belt fitting, but that's not a fault with the hub.

Belts and Rohloff is an interesting one.

Rohloff still do not offer any belt sprockets or associated hardware.

Rohloff do link to the belt maker Gates on their 'third party tuning' page, but there's lots of warnings about needing a frame with a stiff enough rear triangle.

https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/tuning-parts


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Oct 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> IMNSHO Koga might have missed the memo about the upgrade from Rohloff or decided that is was not a real issue to respond to. Not everyone likes everyone else in the EU and I imagine that the Dutch have little time for those pesky Germans who invaded them during the war.


The Dutch don't like the Germans because of the war and that lead to a dodgy Rohloff/Koga marriage???
That's the quality of your position?
I'm out.

Cycleblaze is a crap site with murky beginnings, no search function worth talking about and a dead forum. All style over substance


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> One thing is for sure - his Rohloff hub never failed.


I've nothing against Rohloff but the guy got stranded in France and had to go back home to the UK, get the issue fixed and restart. The hub may not have failed, but something went wrong and as much as I dislike the word "failure" I'd hardly call it a success.
He made it to Asia with no further problems as far as I can tell.

It just reinforces the problem with something like SON, Rohloff etc. - when something goes wrong getting it fixed is really not very compatible with touring.


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## matticus (5 Oct 2020)

I don't know about the Rohloff issues, but if your SON hub fails (e.g. when you are 50,000km into your round-the-world ride ;-) ) can't you just bung in another standard front wheel? _Annoying_, but not trip-ending.

p.s. is this debate turning into the new H*lmet War??


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## Blue Hills (5 Oct 2020)

Can someone educate me on this 50,000km thing on the SON? What's the status of that? Is it some sort of guarantee?


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## Blue Hills (5 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Does the fact that he got loads of support on the road not emphasise the fact that he needed loads of support on the road?




This is the sort of laservision concentration that convinces me that you will be able to cope with anything you encounter on the road hobbes.


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## faster (5 Oct 2020)

It's all very well saying that the hub won't fail - what if the wheel fails?

I had a rear rim fail on tour far away from any shops and was quickly able to source another wheel off a dumped/old bike for £20. I was soon back on the road, and with a good selection of gears at that.

I wonder how many doors I'd have to knock on before someone answered who had a spare Rohloff wheel they were willing to let go?


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## Blue Hills (5 Oct 2020)

faster said:


> It's all very well saying that the hub won't fail - what if the wheel fails?
> 
> I had a rear rim fail on tour far away from any shops and was quickly able to source another wheel off a dumped/old bike for £20. I was soon back on the road, and with a good selection of gears at that.
> 
> I wonder how many doors I'd have to knock on before someone answered who had a spare Rohloff wheel they were willing to let go?


Interesting point - you could of course replace spokes/get a wheel with a rohloff rebuilt/rerimmed but these, particularly the latter two, could get somewhat complicated depending on where you were.
On grabbing wheels, I recently but pre covid acquired a bike for £21 (yes really) and the front wheel that came with it is now running really nicely on another bike of mine.


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## matticus (5 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Can someone educate me on this 50,000km thing on the SON? What's the status of that? Is it some sort of guarantee?


Dunno. I don't own one, and it was someone else that first invoked it on this thread.

(but most modern decent front-hubs should get you round the world. At worst you might want to squirt some clean grease in every now and then. And like i said, if one *does* fail, it's not trip-ending.)


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Oct 2020)

On the 50,000 km thing (I think that was me) I was sure I read it on the SON website, but a quick look now tells me they use "lifetime" and "several tens of thousands of km".
It was something discussed with SJS (where I bought the hub) at the time and more recently after the drain incident. The local agent also asked me how many kms it had done. I reckoned 20-30k km and each response was that was insignificant.

@matticus is bang on that you can just bung in another wheel and off you go. (That's what I did). In fact, it's a lot easier to do with a front dynamo than a rear Rohloff. 

@faster is bang on too and depending on where you're going to tour the availability of parts can be very important, vital even.

My bike, from the frame down was planned on being replacable. It's a mid/late 90s MTB frame, 26 inch wheels, front & rear rack with an Extrawheel trailer (a donor front wheel and spare rim for the rear).
It's got a triple, 7 speed drivetrain (and with the exception of the US) chains, cassettes etc. are everywhere and cheap. Tyres are available, although quality is iffy.
Worst case scenario and I have frame issues just about everything can be transferred over to a new frame, and those types of frames are everywhere.

I like simplicity and I like redundancy. I also prefer to spend my hard earned on experiences not things. I love touring and think that everyone should give it a try. For me, touring means me getting to places and in situations that I'd never thought about. The fact is that we never know what will happen so it's better to be prepared for the unexpected.

I splashed out a large (for me) amount a money a few years ago on a tent. Everything was analysed and weighed up. Literature consumed, videos studied. 
I never thought a couple of cats might like to play on it!  

One thing to remember in all of this discussion about ultimate bikes, hubs etc. is that a lot of the information we see is actually sponsored. People receiving free bikes, gear etc. or just simply trying to drive up visits to their sites. Spoonfuls of salt and a dollop of common sense can go a long way.


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## Blue Hills (5 Oct 2020)

I'm sure they are an excellent company, but I am finding their stated position on the bearings confusing, unless it is just meant to deter chancers.
Their web site seems to say they are "lifetime lubricated" yet the 5 year guarantee (for a quick look says that's what it is) says it doesn't cover "wear and tear".

They also say this under the FAQs.

@@
*How much play may the bearings have?*
New grooved ball bearings have about zero play. During longterm-use the play may increase within a few hundreths of a millimeter. At the rim you may feel a small movement to the right and to the left then. Even when you continue cycling with a lot of bearing play no damage will occur.

@@

I thought if you got that play at the rim on a conventional ball bearing hub you should be adjusting it pronto, and very probably taking a look inside.

And post bearing servicing, that you should aim to have a tiny bit of play when outside the forks which disappears on tightening the wheel with the skewer in the forks - ie that you should very definitely not go riding a wheel with play. And they say "a lot of bearing play" is fine and dandy. Is there something very very special about their hubs and bearings?

I appreciate that they are a decent company as evidenced by replacing @HobbesOnTour 's hub even thiough the guarantee quite naturally doesn't include accidents.

But I remain a tad confused.


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## Mike Ayling (7 Oct 2020)

HobbesOnTour said:


> The Dutch don't like the Germans because of the war and that lead to a dodgy Rohloff/Koga marriage???
> That's the quality of your position?
> I'm out.


that's my opinion which you do not have to agree with.


HobbesOnTour said:


> Cycleblaze is a site with murky beginnings, no search function worth talking





HobbesOnTour said:


> about and a dead forum.



All valid points but at least it is not run by a Crazy Guy.

Cycling Forums are not what they were ten or twenty years ago. Cycle Chat is still quite active, Cycling UK not as much and even the traffic at Crazy Guy is well down on previous years, which Gunton freely admits.
I suspect that the reason that the CycleBlaze forum has not taken off is due to the fact that many of the members there have been bruised by encounters with Gunton before they left.
Gunton had a go at another poster quite recently.


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## Notafettler (7 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> This Tout Terrain Silk Road must be close to the ultimate in flat bar tourers.
> 
> Clever features include a custom rack for Ortlieb panniers, a steering lock to prevent the loaded bike flopping over on the stand, and dropouts which include the dynamo connection.
> 
> ...


Very nice. Only fault is the maximum tyre size. 
Steering lock is unnecessarily complicated. The one on my Santos is much less complicated. 
Always uncertain about disc brakes. They have massive advantages over rim But if you ping them you end up with a locked wheel. Something I didn't appreciate. 
I will be putting a search on ebay for second hand one......you never know!


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## Notafettler (7 Oct 2020)

2890€ very god value.....oops from!


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## Notafettler (7 Oct 2020)

Ebay search. No good to me, no Rohloff! Used for demonstration only

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-...3419d173b8:g:bc4AAOSwJ5pd4BGM&redirect=mobile


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## Vantage (7 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Always uncertain about disc brakes. They have massive advantages over rim But if you ping them you end up with a locked wheel. Something I didn't appreciate.



Ping? As in bend? 
Same thing happens if you pringle a rim. The rim can be straightened by forcibly bending and fine tuning with a spoke key and a bent disc is easy to straighten by stamping on it on a flat surface and fine tuning with an adjustable spanner. 
The difference being that if a rim is pringled to the point that rebending it is a dangerous risk its finished. A bent disc still enables the wheel to turn...albeit without brakes.


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## mjr (7 Oct 2020)

faster said:


> It's all very well saying that the hub won't fail - what if the wheel fails?
> 
> I had a rear rim fail on tour far away from any shops and was quickly able to source another wheel off a dumped/old bike for £20. I was soon back on the road, and with a good selection of gears at that.
> 
> I wonder how many doors I'd have to knock on before someone answered who had a spare Rohloff wheel they were willing to let go?


If you can't wait for a wheelbuilder, I think most hub gear wheels will fit, as Rohloff use the popular 135mm OLN, like Shimano and some SA.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Oct 2020)

*Mod Note:*


Mike Ayling said:


> I would have thought that my replies in *bold large font* clearly differentiated my comments from Hobbes'


Hi there Mike!
Please don't do that, please use the quote function to quote someone's post.
This is the standard forum etiquette, cheers!
I've fixed your previous replies.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2020)

This thread may as well continue its meander away from my OP...

@HobbesOnTour mentioned a book by former member Stephen Peel who, to put it neutrally, had some problems with his expensive Koga tourer.

The book is now on Amazon - link below.

But please, no more posts about sodding dynamo bearings.


View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/highly-unlikely-bicycle-tourist-working-class-ebook/dp/B08F2RVNP3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=34V1QGAAXJCW7&dchild=1&keywords=stephen+peel&qid=1602132052&s=digital-text&sprefix=stephen+pee%2Cdigital-text%2C214&sr=1-1


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## Blue Hills (8 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> This thread may as well continue its meander away from my OP...
> 
> @HobbesOnTour mentioned a book by former member Stephen Peel who, to put it neutrally, had some problems with his expensive Koga tourer.
> 
> ...



Have you read it?
Dare i ask if there's any mention of bearings?
I assume belt drives get a mention?


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Have you read it?



No.

I quite enjoy some of the bike adventure posts on here, but wouldn't want to plough through a book.

One of the reviewers of the book was disappointed because Peel was touring with plenty of money - 'flying home at the drop of a hat'.

Unfair criticism in my view.

Having access to sufficient funds is all part of being self supporting.

It might be different if he was being followed by mechanics, a team car, and a motorhome.


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## matticus (8 Oct 2020)

I saw this tweet, and thought of you lot:


View: https://twitter.com/themarshtit/status/1313761882822586369?s=20

xxx

p.s. it's a highly entertaining thread


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## Mike Ayling (9 Oct 2020)

Pat "5mph" said:


> *Mod Note:*
> 
> Hi there Mike!
> Please don't do that, please use the quote function to quote someone's post.
> ...


Noted.
I did use the quote function but I put my reply within the quote.

Mike


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Oct 2020)

matticus said:


> I saw this tweet, and thought of you lot:
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/themarshtit/status/1313761882822586369?s=20
> ...




I bet the rest of the bike is a Raleigh roadster, also still going strong even if cosmetically compromised.


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## Pale Rider (10 Oct 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I bet the rest of the bike is a Raleigh roadster, also still going strong even if cosmetically compromised.



No, it's the tip of the iceberg.

His dynamo bearings will be the next to go.


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## Blue Hills (10 Oct 2020)

Got to ask pale rider, since you brought it up again.
Do you never check/service your wheel bearings (dynamo or not)?


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## Pale Rider (10 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Got to ask pale rider, since you brought it up again.
> Do you never check/service your wheel bearings (dynamo or not)?



Check - occasionally, service - never.

I tend to buy quality kit, and don't do enough miles to wear out bearings.

My main ebike has a Rohloff at the back, so no worries there.

The front is a sus fork through axle, not sure of the bearing make.

If that ever wears out it will be a bike shop job.

As a general point, the bike is a Riese and Muller, which does seem to be built with longevity, rather than low weight, in mind.

My caravan bike has 20" wheels with derailer gears and a rigid fork.

That's done a few thousand miles with no sign of wear, and probably only does a few hundred a year.

In this thread we were talking about dynohub bearings.

Do they ever wear out?

I had a Shimano dynohub which did 5,000 miles before I sold the bike.

No wear on that when I last checked, so I can't see it failing anytime soon.


----------

