# "Birds on bikes" ?



## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

http://www.thegreatshakespeareride.org.uk

What on earth were they thinking about?


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## coffeejo (18 Feb 2014)




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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

My OH was horrified 

Sent them a message telling them what I thought!


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

I used their complaint form... let's see if I ever get an answer!

*EDIT: * for the benefit of newcomers to this thread who click on the link and are puzzled by the lack of any reference to 'Birds on Bikes' - there was a women's only ride called that, but after complaints from people by direct email and via facebook, the organisers changed the name of their 40 mile ride.


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

They have a facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/thegreatshakespeareride?fref=ts


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> I used their complaint form... let's see if I ever get an answer!


And we did, let's see if they respond.


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## ScotiaLass (18 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> I used their complaint form... let's see if I ever get an answer!


I did too.


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

A few complaints on their Facebook page.


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Feb 2014)

Could they really not have used a bit more imagination? I like the name Pat "5mph" came up with for her women-only rides: Belles on Bikes.

GC


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## ScotiaLass (18 Feb 2014)

BrianEvesham said:


> A few complaints on their Facebook page.


I just added mine...lol


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## Shaun (18 Feb 2014)

Lasses in Lycra? 

You'd have thought that someone, somewhere along the line would have pointed out the potential pitfall of using such a descriptor for a ride title though.

I bet whomever it was is quietly thinking to themselves "I told you!"


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## SimonJKH (18 Feb 2014)

Wow!


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## MissTillyFlop (18 Feb 2014)

Well, I know that all those times I rode 100miles my vagina imploded... And of course I am unable to pay attention to any website that is not entirely mauve and pink...


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## Cycleops (18 Feb 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Could they really not have used a bit more imagination? I like the name Pat "5mph" came up with for her women-only rides: Belles on Bikes.
> 
> GC


How about Belle Ends on Bikes for the fellas.


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## MissTillyFlop (18 Feb 2014)

People power - they have taken it down!!!


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## Shaun (18 Feb 2014)

It's now - The 40 Miler - that was a quick change.


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

MissTillyFlop said:


> People power - they have taken it down!!!


It just called the "forty miler" now then 

Must be still working on the Facebook page.


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## totallyfixed (18 Feb 2014)

Well yes, but reading the blurb it rather sounds as if the shortest ride is aimed at women because they are obviously the slowest and the most overweight. Not from the cover picture on the web page! Someone explain to me why only women are beginners but men somehow skip that stage and become know-it-alls after riding one sportive.
For my own safety I am not going to show dr_pink this.


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

They won't get very far with a flat front tyre.


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

At last;





The Great Shakespeare RideThank you everyone for your comments. We have taken these into consideration and have changed the name of our new route to The 40 Miler. Please accept our apologies for any offence or insult caused.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 10 minutes ago


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

The Power of CycleChat!!!!!!!!


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## Speicher (18 Feb 2014)

What a shame, I would have enjoyed that ride.


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## Speicher (18 Feb 2014)

Here is a friend of mine getting ready for riding, but she prefers motorbikes.








Adjusting the brakes was a bit tricky.


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## Speicher (18 Feb 2014)




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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)




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## Speicher (18 Feb 2014)




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## s7ephanie (18 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2936732, member: 9609"]Presumably they have taken what ever it was down that was offensive - so any clues for those that missed it ?[/quote]
i think because they refered to women as 'birds', am i odd because i didn't take any offence ? better than being called tarts with wheels !!


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2936732, member: 9609"]Presumably they have taken what ever it was down that was offensive - so any clues for those that missed it ?[/quote]
Here's a flavour taken from their Facebook page.


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## totallyfixed (18 Feb 2014)

s7ephanie said:


> i think because they refered to women as 'birds', am i odd because i didn't take any offence ? better than being called tarts with wheels !!


It is obviously very subjective, it offends some and not others, but this is to miss the point that people like Brian are completely blind to, it isn't done intentionally or maliciously, but a big chunk of the male population view women as the weaker sex. I have some bad news for you guys that think this way, women are mentally tougher, can survive harsh climates better and can ultimately keep going for longer than men, fact. Oh, and they listen.


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

I should point out that my OH reaction promoted me to complain. We were looking for a shorter ride to do together. 
I don't seem to be on my own in thinking this.


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

I got an apologetic email from them, saying sorry for any offense and they'd changed the name.

Bit of poor planning and thinking initially, but actually impressive how fast they reacted to criticism.


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## BrianEvesham (18 Feb 2014)

I didn't get a reply but think they reacted very quickly.
It seems that the 40 miler is open to all beginners now (might be wrong though).


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

BrianEvesham said:


> I didn't get a reply but think they reacted very quickly.
> It seems that the 40 miler is open to all beginners now (might be wrong though).


Apparently so. At first they simply removed the title and the 40 miler page details still referred specifically to women. It's now been reworked to remove the gender references. Which is strange because I didn't think people were objecting to women only rides, simply the title.


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## Shaun (18 Feb 2014)

Props where it's due - good on them for listening and changing it.


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## robgul (18 Feb 2014)

Being local to this ride we were rather surprised at the name when we saw the promo e-mails ...... 

Rob
_... volunteer organiser of the MacRide Events :_
Shakespeare SPRING 100 on 6 April 2014
MacRide Tour on 3-4 May 2014
Dynamic 100 on 13 July 2014
Shakespeare AUTUMN 100 on 14 September 2014
MacRide (this year is the 10th!) on Sunday 14 September 2014


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## totallyfixed (18 Feb 2014)

_Safety-approved cycling helmets are compulsory. We recommend cycle helmets complying with ANSI Z90/4 or SNELL standards. Any rider not wearing a helmet whilst participating in the event will be excluded.
_
My Dutch friends would not be impressed and neither am I. See the Chris Boardman thread.


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Apparently so. At first they simply removed the title and the 40 miler page details still referred specifically to women. It's now been reworked to remove the gender references. Which is strange because I didn't think people were objecting to women only rides, simply the title.



I emailed them again. They still want it to be women only, but they are trying to think up a non-offensive name for it that makes this clear - and have just removed all gender references in the meantime.
They'd probably welcome (sensible!) suggestions - if I think of anything, I'll put it on their facebook page.


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

totallyfixed said:


> _Safety-approved cycling helmets are compulsory. We recommend cycle helmets complying with ANSI Z90/4 or SNELL standards. Any rider not wearing a helmet whilst participating in the event will be excluded.
> _
> My Dutch friends would not be impressed and neither am I. See the Chris Boardman thread.


It's probably something to do with their insurance, not them personally. 
*And as a moderator* - please don't derail this thread into a helmet discussion. There's a separate forum for that...


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## ScotiaLass (18 Feb 2014)

I just had an email from them, apologising, and saying they have changed the name now.


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## ScotiaLass (18 Feb 2014)

s7ephanie said:


> i think because they refered to women as 'birds', am i odd because i didn't take any offence ? better than being called tarts with wheels !!


My husband suggested something far more offensive, ending in .... on cycles


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> I emailed them again. They still want it to be women only, but they are trying to think up a non-offensive name for it that makes this clear - and have just removed all gender references in the meantime.
> They'd probably welcome (sensible!) suggestions - if I think of anything, I'll put it on their facebook page.


Ah, ok. But...if they still want to keep this as a women only ride, they should put something to that effect up on their site. Just in case any men or mixed groups put their names down in the interim.


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

User13710 said:


> What's the problem? If they want it to be for women, call it the Forty Mile Women's Ride. The other two distances have serious, uncatchy descriptive titles, but this one needs a cutesy one to attract the girlies? Give us a frigging break.


Exactly, it's so easy!


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## coffeejo (18 Feb 2014)

User13710 said:


> What's the problem? If they want it to be for women, call it the Forty Mile Women's Ride. The other two distances have serious, uncatchy descriptive titles, but this one needs a cutesy one to attract the girlies? Give us a frigging break.


This.


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## totallyfixed (18 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2937197, member: 9609"]I see, the clue was in the title - I don't see it as a derogatory term, sounds a bit outdated (70s 80s), a bit naff, may be a down-south sort of term, could imagine people in Eastenders using it.



hmmm, men are generally stronger than women, hence most sports being split. It is the only advantage men have over women but they are generally bigger and stronger, men seem much more predisposed to developing muscle than women, I'm guessing pound for pound female muscle tissue is capable of the same strength as male muscle, but not sure, is there biological differences between the two muscle tissue?[/quote]

Sorry, I can't discuss that here .


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## slowmotion (18 Feb 2014)

User13710 said:


> Stronger needs a finer definition, and stronger doesn't always translate as 'better'. There are some situations in which the different natural power-to-weight ratio of women is a distinct advantage.


 I'm guessing but acrobatics might be one.


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## ufkacbln (18 Feb 2014)

When I first saw this I thought it was a misprint ..... Bards on bikes would have been funny!


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## Spinney (18 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> When I first saw this I thought it was a misprint ..... Bards on bikes would have been funny!


You have to quote some poetry before they feed you at the feed stations!


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## ufkacbln (18 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> You have to quote some poetry before they feed you at the feed stations!



Give me some food,
I think you should
Otherwise......
I'll be in a mood!



It is food that I need to get 
So give me a musette.........................


Pet.


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> Give me some food,
> I think you should
> Otherwise......
> I'll be in a mood!
> ...


On yer bike, mate, you're bard!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Feb 2014)

If women are equal and many on here have said so, quite rightly, why o why do they need a women's only ride? Surely this is sexist and discriminatory against me because I have a penis.


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## derrick (18 Feb 2014)

This is still on there.

NEW for 2014 is our 40 Mile Birds on Bikes route. This will offer a flatter, shorter route giving women who are fairly new to cycling the confidence to take part in an organised event. Training sessions will be held before the ride giving participants the chance to train in a group as well as expert knowledge on their bikes and cycling gear.


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## deptfordmarmoset (18 Feb 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> If women are equal and many on here have said so, quite rightly, why o why do they need a women's only ride? Surely this is sexist and discriminatory against me because I have a penis.


Probably because a fair number of our gender tend to wave them around a lot.


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## derrick (18 Feb 2014)

So i can take it that nobody has signed up for this then.


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## theclaud (18 Feb 2014)

bromptonfb said:


> If women are equal and many on here have said so, quite rightly, why o why do they need a women's only ride? *Surely this is sexist and discriminatory against me because I have a penis.*


You could try getting over yourself a bit. Apparently @Adrian has useful experience of this...


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## AndyRM (19 Feb 2014)

Seems to be changed now. 

I'd be loathe to condone the original name, but as a (male) designer working for a company with a male dominated hierarchy, I can understand where the Birds on Bikes name came from, why it was accepted, and why nobody challenged it. 

I can understand why this was considered a neat name, bit of a joke etc. and I hope it doesn't put anyone off entering the event because of the daft laddish humour of some mis-guided marketeers, male or female.


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## MissTillyFlop (19 Feb 2014)

AndyRM said:


> Seems to be changed now.
> 
> I'd be loathe to condone the original name, but as a (male) designer working for a company with a male dominated hierarchy, I can understand where the Birds on Bikes name came from, why it was accepted, and why nobody challenged it.
> 
> I can understand why this was considered a neat name, bit of a joke etc. and I hope it doesn't put anyone off entering the event because of the daft laddish humour of some mis-guided marketeers, male or female.



Hmm, to a degree, I guess but it wasn't just the name... Why are all beginner cyclists female? This is the assumption that was made - if there are going to be three routes setting off at the same time it isn't strictly a female only event, so why exclude men who want to do a shorter route and why assume that women, exclusivley, are inexperienced and incapable.

The phrase "birds on a bike" is off putting because it shows that we are, in the mind of whoever write this, some sort of spectacle, that we aren't (more importantly, given the context,) cyclists.

"Bird" has been used to undermine women for a long old time so that's why we're not fond of it. To be honest "lad culture" should have died long ago and has no place in the adult world.


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## AndyRM (19 Feb 2014)

MissTillyFlop said:


> Hmm, to a degree, I guess but it wasn't just the name... Why are all beginner cyclists female? This is the assumption that was made - if there are going to be three routes setting off at the same time it isn't strictly a female only event, so why exclude men who want to do a shorter route and why assume that women, exclusivley, are inexperienced and incapable.
> 
> The phrase "birds on a bike" is off putting because it shows that we are, in the mind of whoever write this, some sort of spectacle, that we aren't (more importantly, given the context,) cyclists.
> 
> "Bird" has been used to undermine women for a long old time so that's why we're not fond of it. To be honest "lad culture" should have died long ago and has no place in the adult world.



You've expressed where I was coming from far more succinctly than I managed, my thoughts were informed by my working experience which I suppose isn't much use in this context.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Feb 2014)

theclaud said:


> You could try getting over yourself a bit. Apparently @Adrian has useful experience of this...


Eh?


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## e-rider (19 Feb 2014)

I don't get what this thread is all about - I clicked the link, didn't see an birds on bikes?


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## Spinney (19 Feb 2014)

e-rider said:


> I don't get what this thread is all about - I clicked the link, didn't see an birds on bikes?


That's because complaints made to them by folks on here (as well as others, no doubt) prompted them to change the name of the ride.


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## AndyRM (20 Feb 2014)

e-rider said:


> I don't get what this thread is all about - I clicked the link, didn't see an birds on bikes?


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## bikehog164 (22 Mar 2014)

I don't see what people are complaining about. All I see is a list of things they offer and that its for the shakespeare hospice?


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## robgul (22 Mar 2014)

bikehog164 said:


> I don't see what people are complaining about. All I see is a list of things they offer and that its for the shakespeare hospice?



... the whole thing has changed since they abandoned the "birds on bikes" event and removed all reference to it - as result of feedback and criticism via various media.

Rob


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## bikehog164 (23 Mar 2014)

robgul said:


> ... the whole thing has changed since they abandoned the "birds on bikes" event and removed all reference to it - as result of feedback and criticism via various media.
> 
> Rob


Ok makes sense, can I ask why people were complaining?


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## BrianEvesham (23 Mar 2014)

bikehog164 said:


> Ok makes sense, can I ask why people were complaining?


See my first post on page two for an idea.


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## robgul (23 Mar 2014)

The term "birds" for women ... and the rather patronising text about "less of a challenge" for ladies ..... 

Rob


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## Bodhbh (23 Mar 2014)

robgul said:


> The term "birds" for women ... and the rather patronising text about "less of a challenge" for ladies .....
> 
> Rob



tbh I think the second bit is the problem not the first - if the birds on bikes route was a real beast, for women, and it said so, I don't see it being patronising.


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## coffeejo (23 Mar 2014)

Bodhbh said:


> tbh I think the second bit is the problem not the first - if the birds on bikes route was a real beast, for women, and it said so, I don't see it being patronising.


What's the difficulty of a route got to do with the gender of the cyclists?


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## Bodhbh (23 Mar 2014)

coffeejo said:


> What's the difficulty of a route got to do with the gender of the cyclists?



Nothing. My point was I don't see a problem with the term 'birds' just the assumption the easy route was for women.


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## coffeejo (23 Mar 2014)

Well I'm one of the ones that does have a problem with being called a "bird" 

Moot point though.


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## robgul (23 Mar 2014)

Bodhbh said:


> tbh I think the second bit is the problem not the first - if the birds on bikes route was a real beast, for women, and it said so, I don't see it being patronising.



.... you need to have seen and read the original text etc that has now been expunged.

Rob


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## robgul (23 Mar 2014)

coffeejo said:


> Well I'm one of the ones that does have a problem with being called a "bird"
> 
> Moot point though.



I thought the term "bird" went out when Hancock's Half Hour finished on the radio and television way back when ... although it did get a bit of a revival when Michael Caine made the film Alfie in the 1960s!

Rob


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