# Kent/E. Sussex - "An Hell of Ashdown" - 66 miles - Sat 8th December



## GrumpyGregry (1 Oct 2012)

Start point tbc (depends on who else is up for it) but likely one of
Penshurst Station
Hever Station
or
Rye Wood Duncton Green
or
(edit) Gatwick Airport

100km or thereabouts, (edit) bit more if we start from Gatwick,not far off 2km of height gain/descent, conversational pace, early(ish) start, lots of hills, lots of quiet lanes.

11ses, lunch and afternoon tea stops will be included but the aim is to do it all in daylight.


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## Mice (1 Oct 2012)

Hello! This sounds like a plan - Yes please!

Mice


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## martint235 (1 Oct 2012)

Me please.

My vote is for Hever station or Rye Wood as they are closest for me to cycle to but not too fussed either way


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## rich p (1 Oct 2012)

2070831 said:


> I shall register a vague interest.


 Me too. Downside is an hour and a half on the train both ways.


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## velovoice (1 Oct 2012)

A "vague interest" from this quarter as well. If the weather looks to be very wet and/or windy, then I would be more usefully employed unpacking boxes and settling into my new home. But if it looks to be dry - sunny & cold would be particularly tempting - then some cobwebs, the blowing out thereof, will be needed.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Oct 2012)

User13710 said:


> Sounds interesting, but there are some real killer hills on this route I believe?


Killer hills? Well, not killer, no, you rode worse on LonJOG, and anyway we are like the US Marines we bring home our dead.


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## User10571 (1 Oct 2012)

The Wall?
Hmmmm....?


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## Brahan (1 Oct 2012)

Can I tag along? If anyone fancies giving the course a reccy ride at any going before the 5th, gimme a shout. I need to get some miles in my legs.


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## Sittingduck (1 Oct 2012)

Hi

I am interested too. Rode a big loop on Saturday in that part of the world and very nice it was too.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Oct 2012)

In all seriousness, in the spring the down hills were far worse than the climbs. Not so much roads as pothole joined by tarmac.


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## mmmmartin (1 Oct 2012)

If anyone is interested this area has four 100k audax perms, ie rides you do and prove you've done it by having receipts from shops, banks, etc. Audax uk website, calendar perms, look for billy weir.


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## velovoice (1 Oct 2012)

FD tells me I won't like these hills. So I'll bow out of these proceedings before too much damage is done.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> FD tells me I won't like these hills. So I'll bow out of these proceedings before too much damage is done.


I don't like these hills. in fact if these hills had buttons marked Like or Report this hill, I'd click Report this hill every time.


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## StuAff (1 Oct 2012)

Sounds great. Unfortunately, during pressure....so no chance I can make it.


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## velovoice (1 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> I don't like these hills. in fact if these hills had buttons marked Like or Report this hill, I'd click Report this hill every time.


I just had to click Like on that one.


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## Mice (1 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> FD tells me I won't like these hills. So I'll bow out of these proceedings before too much damage is done.


 
<there isnt a dont-like button> That's a pity - and quite scary too on the basis that normally FD doesn't tell the truth about hills....! We are talking the North Downs tho' so even I know they are big. I'd better get some more hill practice in before December.

Mice


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## velovoice (2 Oct 2012)

Mice said:


> That's... quite scary too on the basis that normally FD doesn't tell the truth about hills....!


He actually used the word "suffer"!


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> He actually used the word "suffer"!


 
I am not a climber. FD drops me like a stone on every ascent. But he loves you and has your best interests at heart.

Honestly. These climbs are ok if you take them at your own pace and in the right gear (your lowest one). And there are several of them. If you try to hang on to someone else's wheel, or ride them in one hit, without pausing for breath when you're in the red zone, then yes, you may have a near death experience. Walking is allowed; think a Fridays ride on a Wednesday.

Those who rode "The Hell of the North-East" on LonJOG all the way to the Derwent Manor and beyond may experience a certain deja vu all over again


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## martint235 (2 Oct 2012)

^^^ Wot he said. The thing with hills is to always do them at your own speed on the day. When you get into trouble is when you try to grab someone's wheel or to beat a personal best.

I'm looking forward to this already!!!


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

Ridden as a loop from Biggin Hill (clue is in the name methinks) the route profile looks like this....


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## Mice (2 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> He actually used the word *"suffer"*!


 
 Right. That's it. I'm going to see if I can reach the top of Toys Hill as a practice run before then. My legs still remember the burning sensation when arriving at Derwent Manor Hotel! 

Mice


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

Mice said:


> Right. That's it. I'm going to see if I can reach the top of Toys Hill as a practice run before then. My legs still remember *the burning sensation when arriving at Derwent Manor Hotel*!
> 
> Mice


The correct response to which is "Shut Up Legs!"


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## StuAff (2 Oct 2012)

That climb wasn't that bad.........


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## Mice (2 Oct 2012)

2072027 said:


> Which just shows that ditching the rucksack is the way to go.


 
Derwent Manor - the perfect location for the Ditching Luggage Lesson - as hosted by GregCollins, Adrian and RB58. Woohooo! Am still talking about how you three got me to do that. Brillliant! In fact, this very morning I am rummaging around trying to find the bit that can hold my pump to my bike although I'm not entirely sure I'll recognise it even if I find it! I know I still have luggage but its a whole lot less since Derwent Manor!

I am busy doing research into a practice run for this ride - targeting Toys Hill/Crockham Hill/Ide Hill!! 

Mice


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## velovoice (2 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> I am not a climber. FD drops me like a stone on every ascent. But he loves you and has your best interests at heart.
> 
> Honestly. These climbs are ok if you take them at your own pace and in the right gear (your lowest one). And there are several of them. If you try to hang on to someone else's wheel, or ride them in one hit, without pausing for breath when you're in the red zone, then yes, you may have a near death experience. Walking is allowed; think a Fridays ride on a Wednesday.


Thanks Greg - that is encouraging. However, I am mindful that you wish to complete 60 miles in daylight and can't afford to spend *too much* time waiting for the likes of me. Additionally, it looks like our travel time to/from the start may well run to 4 hours total  which on that ground alone rather rules this one out for us. Sounds lovely though! And after I've lived in Caddington a few months, my hill-climbing abilities may (= should!) improve to the point where a ride like this would involve a lot less suffering. And less time pressure if done during BST. So... if you all enjoy it... perhaps a re-run next year?


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## Tim Hall (2 Oct 2012)

What sort of time for the start? Being a Wednesday means we have to contend with peak hour bike bans on the train. (Having said that, Hever is only 15 miles by speeding bicycle)

Edit: Rye Wood? Where he?


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

Tim Hall said:


> What sort of time for the start? Being a Wednesday means we have to contend with peak hour bike bans on the train. (Having said that, Hever is only 15 miles by speeding bicycle)
> 
> Edit: Rye Wood? Where he?


This is true. Would folk prefer a defer to a Saturday before or after?


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## StuAff (2 Oct 2012)

Saturday before I might well be able to make....


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## Shadow (2 Oct 2012)

Looks like a fun ride and would love to do it, especially with a few lumpy bits...but sadly there would be NO chance of me having a day off during the week in december to do this! Even very early december.
Oooh, might have just dug myself a huge hole. Just seen ^^^ and have no excuses for a saturday ride.


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## martint235 (2 Oct 2012)

Tim Hall said:


> What sort of time for the start? Being a Wednesday means we have to contend with peak hour bike bans on the train. (Having said that, Hever is only 15 miles by speeding bicycle)
> 
> Edit: Rye Wood? Where he?


 Rye Wood is next to Dunton Green station on Google Maps, I assume that's the one meant.

I'm currently on call on the 5th and was just about to arrange to move that duty to another week to free up the day. As things stand I'll be on call on Sat 8th and it's harder to get someone to cover Saturday for me.

Happy to do the 5th or a Saturday though, I just need to make arrangements.


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## rb58 (2 Oct 2012)

I'd love to do this, but 5th December is BIG PARTY day in the office, so that counts me out unless you defer to a Saturday, in which case I'm in. And Mice, if you want company for your planned pre-assault on Toys Hill, let me know. Of course, the only way to do Toys Hill is northbound. And if you want a real laugh I can guide you to Yorks Hill which is just around the corner.


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## Sittingduck (2 Oct 2012)

rb58 said:


> I'd love to do this, but 5th December is BIG PARTY day in the office, so that counts me out unless you defer to a Saturday, in which case I'm in. And Mice, if you want company for your planned pre-assault on Toys Hill, let me know. Of course, the only way to do Toys Hill is northbound. And if you want a real laugh I can guide you to Yorks Hill which is just around the corner.


 
I went down York's on Saturday - quite a frightening business  
Sketchiest surface I have seen for a while!


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## rb58 (2 Oct 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> I went down York's on Saturday - quite a frightening business
> Sketchiest surface I have seen for a while!


You should try going up it in the autumn wet. Hard to get traction on the wet road, then add some falling leaves and it all becomes a bit fraught!


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## Mice (2 Oct 2012)

rb58 said:


> I'd love to do this, but 5th December is BIG PARTY day in the office, so that counts me out unless you defer to a Saturday, in which case I'm in*. And Mice, if you want company for your planned pre-assault on Toys Hill, let me know.* Of course, the only way to do Toys Hill is northbound. And if you want a real laugh I can guide you to Yorks Hill which is just around the corner.


 
Cool! Thank you that would be great. Not sure I'll find Yorks Hill particularly amusing or indeed remotely funny but I really do want to do these hills! 

Mice


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

I am hereby proposing a CHANGE OF DATE to Saturday 1st December. All those in favour say "Aye" those against "wibble"


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## rb58 (2 Oct 2012)

Aye......


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## ianrauk (2 Oct 2012)

Aye......


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## martint235 (2 Oct 2012)

Aye


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## StuAff (2 Oct 2012)

Aye!


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## martint235 (2 Oct 2012)

2072793 said:


> Registering a provisional Aye.
> 
> 
> This double posting is getting very annoying.


Have patience. Just click post reply once. Exercise a bit of patience and as if by magic your post will appear.


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## martint235 (2 Oct 2012)

Moi? Patronising? I'll get back in me box.


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## mmmmartin (2 Oct 2012)

A thought occurs. You may wish to know of tea shoppes. Obv there is the Duddleswell Tea Rooms, which is lovely to sit outside on a sunny day (and yes, I did note the date of your ride before ai said that...) and open almost always. The food and drink is good and reasonably priced. There is also the garden centre on the left before you reach them, I do not know it but it might do you. Apart from that there is surprisingly little on The Forest itself. Edenbridge has a lot of things open but that is probably too far north, although from Kingstanding car park (ice cream van every single day of the year including Christmas Day) the route to Edenbridge is surprisingly hilly and the newly tarmaced bit from Gills Lap car park is an absolute joy to whizz down and thoroughly enjoyable. Hartfield is prob your best bet, the pub up the road to the church is likely to be closer to your tastes, I think. Also there is the new shiny tea shoppe on the north side of the road, east end of the village and that has been there a year or so and looks very nice and civilised. This might be your best bet. There are a few other pubs around but building restrictions mean there's not many places to eat. The Junction at Groombridge is at the bottom of a fantastic long downhill and has a tea shoppe, but it is at the bottom of a long downhil......


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## Mice (2 Oct 2012)

Aye!   Should I keep the 5th in my diary in case the Saturday is cancelled, I wonder...?!

Mice


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## StuAff (2 Oct 2012)

Mice said:


> Aye!   Should I keep the 5th in my diary in case the Saturday is cancelled, I wonder...?!
> 
> Mice


Saturdays happen every week. I think.....


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Oct 2012)

Right can someone flag up/drag in an admin and get them to change the title on the thread to reflect the revised date. 

Unless you can tell me how to do it myself.

I'm also looking at a variation of the route I used in 2009 where we started at Gatwick Airport which I guess is easier for many to get to yes?


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## ianrauk (2 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Right can someone flag up/drag in an admin and get them to change the title on the thread to reflect the revised date.


 
Done


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## velovoice (3 Oct 2012)

I really must stop following this thread. 
You've changed the date to a Saturday, moved the start to an easily accessible location... now, any mention of flattening a few hills and I'll have to throw in an AYE myself.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Oct 2012)

Right. I've rummaged around in the depths of the interweb and found a route last done in 2009.

We can rendezvous at Gatwick Airport and, passing along part of the FNRttC route to the Edifice, make our way to Dormansland, near Lingfield, where we shall join the route of An Hell of Ashdown Forest. Or get lost within minutes of starting; which is what happened last time in my pre GPS days. We will then head towards Hartfield, cheerfully ascend "The Wall" at *Kidds Hil*l, descend *Black Down Hill* towards Groombridge, where the "*Col De Groombridge*" awaits, impassive in its magnificence. Fordcombe and Chiddingstone Hoath will follow, and oaths will be no doubt be sworn ascending *Bayley's Hill*. Ide Hill village is a delightful spot, Sundridge is aptly named whilst *Star Hill* is simply a three stars short of a euphemism. Knock Holt Pound will be followed by* Cudham Test Hill/Church Hill*, and on into Cudham, Brasted from when we will trip the light fantastic on *Toys Hill* before Four Elms and the glory that was Hever Castle. Through Edenbridge, Den Cross and Marsh Green and thither Dormansland where we can retrace our steps back to Gatwick and home.

Some, of a northerly persuasion, may find Lingfield Station a more convivial spot to alight from, or catch a train. That can be accommodated too. A limited number of rail bail options are available

I'll chuck a link to a route card up in due course and will bikehike it to produce a GPS track route or whatever.


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## ianrauk (10 Oct 2012)

*Cudham Test Hill/Church Hill*

oooh.. that's a nice 25%er.. with a rabid dog at the bottom.
Very close to home too.


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## musa (10 Oct 2012)

yh im in (for now) some b*s will happen with work


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## martint235 (10 Oct 2012)

Ooh looking forward to this. I'll probably ride down to Gatwick but will also look for a "head for home" point in the northern section, possibly Cudham, rather than ride down to Gatwick to ride back north again.
It sounds like Toys Hill is tackled North to South from the description above.


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## ianrauk (10 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> Ooh looking forward to this. I*'ll probably ride down to Gatwick but will also look for a "head for home" point in the northern section, possibly Cudham*, rather than ride down to Gatwick to ride back north again.
> It sounds like Toys Hill is tackled North to South from the description above.


 
My plan also


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## rb58 (10 Oct 2012)

^^ This.

Toys Hill north to south means an easy climb and a dreadful road surface for the descent to Four Elms. I went up the south face a few weeks back and it's really bad, both in terms of potholes and debris. Care will be needed.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Oct 2012)

rb58 said:


> ^^ This.
> 
> Toys Hill north to south means an easy climb and a dreadful road surface for the descent to Four Elms. I went up the south face a few weeks back and it's really bad, both in terms of potholes and debris. Care will be needed.


This. With knobs on. The first time I rode down that stretch I was astounded by the poor condition of the road.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> I'll chuck a link to a route card up in due course and will bikehike it to produce a GPS track route or whatever.


Please do. 

I won't be joining you as I doubt I could hack the pace. We did a similar but smaller route earlier in the year but more to the North, missing out the Ashdown bits (Saltbox / Cudham / Toys-from-the-North / Bailey's / Star) which is here if you want to see the profiles.


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## AKA Bob (11 Oct 2012)

Greg,

Can I say a tentative 'Aye'? I need to check out work and train times from the West before saying 'Aye' fully!

Titus


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Oct 2012)

2093277 said:


> Sunrise is around 7:40, sunset around 4:00. What time is KO?


08:00 roll from gatwick?


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Oct 2012)

2093328 said:


> That be fine with me. There is also a 06:34 from Reading, arrives Gatwick 07:50.


One would make allowances, on the day, for those training it in on First Great Western


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## jifdave (11 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Ridden as a loop from Biggin Hill (clue is in the name methinks) the route profile looks like this....


 is that 500 feet climb in about 5 miles in? i decline graciously


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Oct 2012)

Got a phone call from my Cousin Alice in Sheffield on Sunday.
She wants to swap the weekend she comes to see me from 8th December to 1st December.

Can folk do the 8th for this ride instead of the first?

@jifdave
@User
@AKA Bob
@dogtrousers
@ianrauk
@rb58
@martint235
@musa
@RebeccaOlds
@StuAff
@mice
@Tim Hall
@shadow


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

Changed date in the diary...


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## Dogtrousers (22 Oct 2012)

I'm not actually up for the ride at all. I just expressed interest in the thread cos it's an area that I ride in, but I'm very slow.


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## musa (22 Oct 2012)

noted 

thanks


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## martint235 (22 Oct 2012)

I can't make the 8th, I'm on call.


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## rb58 (22 Oct 2012)

8th is just as good for me and it's in the diary.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Oct 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Changed date in the diary...


wanna change the date in the thread title too?


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## ianrauk (22 Oct 2012)

2114106 said:


> I am OK with that, I think.


 

I think you are ok with that too.I think.


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## Mice (22 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Got a phone call from my Cousin Alice in Sheffield on Sunday.
> She wants to swap the weekend she comes to see me from 8th December to 1st December.
> 
> Can folk do the 8th for this ride instead of the first?
> ...


 

The 8th is fine with me too. Does this mean the 1st might be a possible training day up and down Toys Hill - RB58? And anyone else of course who would like to.

Mice


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## StuAff (22 Oct 2012)

Almost certainly out- 8th is during pressure. Saturdays remain as overtime, but with the job I'm on it'll be better to try and keep up with the workload as best I can, which means more hours on it....


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## Tim Hall (22 Oct 2012)

8th is fine here TAAW. Domestic clearance has yet to be arranged though.


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## Shadow (22 Oct 2012)

Will let you know. Day pass not fully approved.


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## rb58 (23 Oct 2012)

Mice said:


> The 8th is fine with me too. Does this mean the 1st might be a possible training day up and down Toys Hill - RB58? And anyone else of course who would like to.
> 
> Mice


Ha Ha! That would be fun - loops of Toys, Ide, Hosey and Yorks Hills.......... Toys Hill has a nice pub at the top, Ide Hill has spectacular views, Hosey goes past Chartwell and Yorks Hill hosts hill climb races. Something for everyone there. Decent (albeit small) cafe in Brasted too where we could all lie down afterwards.


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## velovoice (23 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> @jifdave
> @User
> @AKA Bob
> @dogtrousers
> ...


 Oops, thought I'd removed myself (see post # 15).


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## GrumpyGregry (23 Oct 2012)

RebeccaOlds said:


> Oops, thought I'd removed myself (see post # 15).


just trying to tempt you astray!


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## velovoice (23 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> just trying to tempt you astray!


I think I'm beyond temptation now. The house move is taking it out of me. I intend to hibernate until 1st April!


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## JohnKilbey (24 Oct 2012)

I'd like to register for this ride too please. I grew up in the eastern part of the area, so might recognize some of the hills. The profile looks 'interesting' ... might have to do a recce beforehand.


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## JamesK (26 Oct 2012)

I'm also keen to come on this. What is "conversational pace"?


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Oct 2012)

JamesK said:


> I'm also keen to come on this. What is "conversational pace"?


A speed at which you can ride and chat.


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## JamesK (27 Oct 2012)

Indeed, but that means different things to different people...


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## martint235 (27 Oct 2012)

JamesK said:


> Indeed, but that means different things to different people...


Nope. Come along. It doesn;t. It means a very easy pace that you can use to talk to the person next you. You can even warn them about impending castles should you wish to.


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## rb58 (27 Oct 2012)

martint235 said:


> You can even warn them about impending castles should you wish to.


Did you see the Stock windmill Martin?


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## ianrauk (27 Oct 2012)

rb58 said:


> Did you see the Stock windmill Martin?


 

LOL, I can confirm that he did... he even pointed it out to me and Walnuts.


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## martint235 (28 Oct 2012)

rb58 said:


> Did you see the Stock windmill Martin?





ianrauk said:


> LOL, I can confirm that he did... he even pointed it out to me and Walnuts.


Yes. I am the official Stock Windmill pointer outer


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## SaLQ83 (28 Oct 2012)

Hello I am in if that's ok (unless I am working) and George is definitley in.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Oct 2012)

Leoqueen1983 said:


> Hello I am in if that's ok (unless I am working) and George is definitley in.


splendid.


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## Shadow (13 Nov 2012)

Oh dear. This could be traumatic.. lots of walking. I fear any semblance of fitness acquired over the summer is fading away with the leaves. Went for a gentle jaunt on sunday, two routes up Bury Hill, no problem. Went out yesterday for a quick blast and really struggled up the Bostal at Steyning. In fact, came to a complete standstill, got off and walked to near the top.


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## benborp (15 Nov 2012)

Can I come? It's sounding like a nice day out.


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## GrumpyGregry (15 Nov 2012)

benborp said:


> Can I come? It's sounding like a nice day out.


for sure


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## Trickedem (20 Nov 2012)

Greg, I am a possible. Have you prepared a route yet. I need to plan how to ride out to join you and get home. I would be trying to do this as my long ride for December.
Thanks


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Nov 2012)

Trickedem said:


> Greg, I am a possible. Have you prepared a route yet. I need to plan how to ride out to join you and get home. I would be trying to do this as my long ride for December.
> Thanks


I'm on it.


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## BigonaBianchi (25 Nov 2012)

bit dim here wants to be sure if this is the 1st or 8th of dec please?


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Nov 2012)

BigonaBianchi said:


> bit dim here wants to be sure if this is the 1st or 8th of dec please?


8th December.


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## Tim Hall (26 Nov 2012)

Looking very good for this. Mrs. Hall will be working, so I'm free to go and play. Got a start point yet?

And be warned: For various reasons I've been reading the minute books of the Conservators of the Ashdown Forest (1929-1935). I can regurgitate this at the slightest provocation.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Nov 2012)

The plan is to meet at Gatwick Airport iirc.


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## benborp (2 Dec 2012)

Hello all, is it worth firming up plans for meeting at Gatwick? 8:00am, December 8th. Or with a week to go are there still several revisions to come? I'll be riding down from Crystal Palace, possibly bringing a friend depending on how bad his hangover is.

How do we stand (or fall) when it comes to ice?


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## AKA Bob (2 Dec 2012)

Greg, sadly I won't be joining you on this one due to current restrictions imposed on me and bicycles!


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## Tim Hall (2 Dec 2012)

2183079 said:


> I am going to be a liability at best.


 
So no change there then. Anyway, I'm looking forward to this ride. Greg, whereabouts at Gatwick did you have in mind?


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Dec 2012)

sorry folks, having all manner of broadband issues at Collins towers at the mo'

*HOPE FOR THE BEST*
Meet at the cycle racks shown on the map here for an 08:00 roll please

(Not planning to attempt the 'lift the bike over the gate' shortcut to Balcombe Road as when myself and three mates tried it in October we ended up in a discussion with the boys in blue but you may stiffen my resolve on the day.)

Bring lights just in case

A route card is here and I'll knock up a gpx when I get some bandwidth (probably lunchtime tues in the office)https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8563927/2012 birthday hell route card.doc

I'm on moby oh double seven eight nine double oh five four two one, email gcollins_at_resolvere_dot_co_dot_uk

*PLAN FOR THE WORST*
I'll make a weather related call by 22:00 on Friday AT THE LATEST. If there is even a hint of ice or frost from a reputable weather pastcaster I will cancel. I have been on my arse once already this week, and watched a few folk do the same before our club run was abandoned this morning. Some of the roads we will be riding are shaded, or on the northern slopes of hills, and don't get gritted and it could get messy if they are icy.


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Dec 2012)

2183079 said:


> While we are about it, I am currently full of snot. I haven't ridden much in the last week, nor will I be doing so in the coming days. If things don't improve soon, I am going to be a liability at best.


we will be joint liablities then, though I require no snot to make me one


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Dec 2012)

If the tech has worked there is a gpx track (a follow the line track - it does not have turn by turn instructions as it isn't a route) file here built using bikehike


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## BigonaBianchi (2 Dec 2012)

Hi Greg,
I almost certainly wont be able to do that day but I really want to ride this loop some other time. I tried to download the gpx track above but only see loads of text....tried it in bike hike and bike route toaster but cant get it to convert to a GPX file so i can see it on the map or load it into my garmin. Do you or anyone else on here know how to do that so i can ride this another day?

Cheers.


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## ianrauk (2 Dec 2012)

yup, gpx route not working for me also.


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## Eddie_C (2 Dec 2012)

Hi Greg
I'd like to join this ride, please.
Eddie


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## Trickedem (3 Dec 2012)

here's the route. Just needed to save the text as a .gpx file them reload it
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=482891​


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## ianrauk (3 Dec 2012)

Trickedem said:


> here's the route. Just needed to save the text as a .gpx file them reload it
> http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=482891​


 

Blimey, part of the route is only 3 miles from home. (Mile58)


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Dec 2012)

Eddie_C said:


> Hi Greg
> I'd like to join this ride, please.
> Eddie


for sure


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## Trickedem (3 Dec 2012)

I am intending to cycle from home and leave at a ridiculously early hour so that I can have some breakfast at the Station cafe in Horley at about 7.15 am I checked with them today and they open at 7am. if anyone wants to join me please feel free I will probably peel off at Ide Hill and go East to do a loop back to home.


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## rb58 (3 Dec 2012)

Tim - may join you for breakfast. I want to see the weather forecast before finally committing though. If it looks like it's going to be wet or very cold, I'll probably opt for an extra hour in bed.


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## mmmmartin (3 Dec 2012)

If you like hills, you might be interested in the hardest ride in the south, Mad Jack's which is 125k and 2,500 metres of ascent, entry is limited to 50, usually the same riders each year, but you may not be aware of it, so I'm telling you now. I think it is harder than the MidSussex Hillier, which you may have heard of. 
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/13-85/#more
is where you enter

There is also The Hills & Mills, which is easier at only 100k and 1,750 metres of ascent (I've ridden it), entry is here
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/13-77/


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## Trickedem (3 Dec 2012)

rb58 said:


> If it looks like it's going to be wet or very cold, I'll probably opt for an extra hour in bed.


I'll be watching the weather too. I was quite horrified to hear about all the cyclechatters who fell off over the weekend. So any danger of black ice and I won't be there. Cold or drizzle only; then maybe.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Dec 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I'll be watching the weather too. I was quite horrified to hear about all the cyclechatters who fell off over the weekend. So *any danger of black ice and I won't be there*. Cold or drizzle only; then maybe.


any danger of black ice, white ice or fifty shades of gray ice and I'm pulling the plug on it.


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## Trickedem (4 Dec 2012)

The weather forecast is looking favourable at the moment, with temps above zero on Friday night and sunny all day on Saturday. I will be joining the ride for about 40 hilly miles up to Ide Hill.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Dec 2012)

I am hopeful.

Can those intending to come please txt me name and mobile number to 07789 005421

Ta.


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## benborp (5 Dec 2012)

I can't text Greg! I'm trying to sort the insurance for my recently deceased phone.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Dec 2012)

confirmed so far

Nigel
Tim Decker
Tim Hall
Benborp (sans mobile)


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## musa (5 Dec 2012)

ill give youse a text tomorrow greg i need to get cover for work saturday

benborp are you riding down from c.palace? if so possible to meet im down in brixton 
(all subject to confirmation)


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## benborp (5 Dec 2012)

musa said:


> ill give youse a text tomorrow greg i need to get cover for work saturday
> 
> benborp are you riding down from c.palace? if so possible to meet im down in brixton
> (all subject to confirmation)


Yep! Should be possible to arrange a meeting point on Friday once all looks set.


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## musa (5 Dec 2012)

benborp said:


> Yep! Should be possible to arrange a meeting point on Friday once all looks set.


ok kool


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2012)

confirmed so far

Nigel
Tim Decker
Tim Hall
Benborp (sans mobile)
Ross


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2012)

2189795 said:


> I shall endeavour to cycle to work tomorrow and report back.


See, I'm doing the polar opposite and refusing to ride any distance all week.


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## ianrauk (6 Dec 2012)

Greg,
I'm going to drop out of this I'm afraid.

Excuses are:
1: I have a bad chest at the mo
2: I ache all over at the mo
3: It's a very early start and I need some rest
4: It's a bit hilly and cold for a man who has all of the above

Have fun peeps.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2012)

*sad face*


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2012)

confirmed so far

Nigel
Tim Decker
Tim Hall
Benborp (sans mobile)
Ross
Eddie
Musa


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## Mice (6 Dec 2012)

Sadly I am not going to be able to do this after all.  It's just tooooo cold for me 

Have a fab day.

Mice


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2012)

boo! hiss!

or in Adrian's snot filled case

boob! hith!


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## Trickedem (6 Dec 2012)

I'm still optimistic. Eurostar back to London tomorrow morning. Meeting at lunchtime, magic gig in the evening. Get home late, get bike ready, including a tyre change, sleep a bit, up early, leave at 4am. Breakfast at Horley at 7am. Gatwick at 8am. 
If I make it, then real magic will have occurred!


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## rb58 (7 Dec 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I'm still optimistic. Eurostar back to London tomorrow morning. Meeting at lunchtime, magic gig in the evening. Get home late, get bike ready, including a tyre change, sleep a bit, up early, leave at 4am. Breakfast at Horley at 7am. Gatwick at 8am.
> If I make it, then real magic will have occurred!


Tim - I'm aiming to be at the Station Cafe in Horley for a 7.00am breakfast. 
Greg - I will be peeling off when we get to the top of Ide Hill, probably after admirig the view and using the facilities ;-)


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## Trickedem (7 Dec 2012)

rb58 said:


> Tim - I'm aiming to be at the Station Cafe in Horley for a 7.00am breakfast.
> Greg - I will be peeling off when we get to the top of Ide Hill, probably after admirig the view and using the facilities ;-)


well phase 1 of the plan is complete. Brussels was starting to grind to a stop at 6.30 and the snow was as bad as forecast. Fortunately I made it and I am now back at work. 
Yet to decide which bike to use. Shamefully my van nic is still filthy from its last ride, but the Dawes is a lot heavier. I will decide when I get home about 10 pm tonight.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

Trickedem said:


> well phase 1 of the plan is complete. Brussels was starting to grind to a stop at 6.30 and the snow was as bad as forecast. Fortunately I made it and I am now back at work.
> *Yet to decide which bike to use. Shamefully my van nic is still filthy from its last ride, but the Dawes is a lot heavier. I will decide when I get home about 10 pm tonight*.


What's the phrase? 1st world problems!


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## Trickedem (7 Dec 2012)

2192411 said:


> Is the Dawes currently clean? Do you want two bikes dirty come tomorrow evening?


I'm glad this is all I have to worry about  good point. And besides my normal cleanliness obsessive riding partner has pulled out. Another Quick spray with wd 40 and all will be well.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

confirmed so far

Nigel
Tim Decker
Tim Hall
Benborp (sans mobile)
Ross
Eddie
Musa
John Kilbey


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## rb58 (7 Dec 2012)

Trickedem said:


> I'm glad this is all I have to worry about  good point. _*And besides my normal cleanliness obsessive riding partner has pulled out*_. Another Quick spray with wd 40 and all will be well.


I can confirm The Enigma is dirty...... And it might even be Brighton dirt.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

BBC say minimum 2 degrees (for Edenbridge) at 0700 and a maximum of 5 at 1400 with 4 degrees at 1700
The nice Norwegian folk via WeatherSpark are less optimistic and claim -1 at 0700 and a maximum of 3 degrees at 1400 before a plunge back down to 0 by1700.

Exactly the sort of uncertainty I'd hoped to avoid. Ho hum.


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## mmmmartin (7 Dec 2012)

you lose 3 degrees C per thousand feet of ascent, so edenbridge, which is low, will be warmer than the top of Ashdown Forest...... not by much though.


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## benborp (7 Dec 2012)

I've got a phone!

But it's not charged yet.

When are you planning on catching some zzz Greg?


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

benborp said:


> I've got a phone!
> 
> But it's not charged yet.
> 
> When are you planning on catching some zzz Greg?


It's the lack of sleep that gives me such a happy positive disposition. Bed at 2300, up at 0500.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

User13710 said:


> How does that work with frost hollows then? Sometimes on night rides we can feel the temperature dropping as lanes dip down?


Frost hollows explained

There are some real humdingers on the Powys/Shropshire borders. I've seen a 10 degree drop on the car thermometer.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

User13710 said:


> That's what I thought @GregCollins, so if cold air drops down how can temperatures fall 3 degrees per 1000 feet of ascent, as per @mmmmartin's post? I dunno. It's wishful thinking I reckon, and given the last few mornings I think I'll predict, without looking at any weather sites at all, that it's going to be farking freezing tomorrow early.
> 
> Have a good ride everyone and stay safe. We've had miles too many fractures around here lately.


good article on lapse rate on wikipedia

"Although the actual atmospheric lapse rate varies, under normal atmospheric conditions the average atmospheric lapse rate results in a temperature decrease of 3.5°F/1,000 ft (6.4°C/km) of altitude."

so the splendid mmmmartin was right and wrong all at once having mixed his F's with his C's.


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## benborp (7 Dec 2012)

There are two effects. One is the heat sink nature of the Earth. It radiates this stored heat and the effect is more pronounced the lower you are. This works on a larger scale than frost hollows.

The other is air pressure. The pressure drops as elevation increases. In effect the warmth of the air is spread more thinly through a larger volume.


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## srw (7 Dec 2012)

benborp said:


> There are two effects. One is the heat sink nature of the Earth. It radiates this stored heat and the effect is more pronounced the lower you are. This works on a larger scale than frost hollows.


Wouldn't that only make a difference when you climb through the atmosphere away from the earth? Surely it wouldn't explain the fact that the top of a mountain is colder than the bottom - because the mountain acts as a heat sink in the same way as the valley floor.


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## Shadow (7 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> It's the lack of sleep that gives me such a happy positive disposition. Bed at 2300, up at 0500.


Such a better man than I. (agreed,not difficult). Bed now, rise later and I need to ride to the station before you leave your house... or are you riding to gatwick?! Glad you'll be happy, I cannot guarantee that I will be til much later in all likelihood. Hope to see you at 7.37ish. Nighty- night.


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## benborp (7 Dec 2012)

srw said:


> Wouldn't that only make a difference when you climb through the atmosphere away from the earth? Surely it wouldn't explain the fact that the top of a mountain is colder than the bottom - because the mountain acts as a heat sink in the same way as the valley floor.


 
The valley floor is surrounded by more heat sink Earth and there is a cumulative effect. The mountain is surrounded by air and dissipates its heat more easily. A parallel could be drawn to the heat sink effect of a modern concrete city compared to a similarly constructed university campus. The city hangs on to its heat better.


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## benborp (7 Dec 2012)

@musa Do you have a time and place that you'll be passing through?


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

User13710 said:


> It's still going to be fracking freezing though


nowt wrang wi'a bit o caad, bonny lass.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

Shadow said:


> Such a better man than I. (agreed,not difficult). Bed now, rise later and I need to ride to the station before you leave your house... or are you *riding to gatwick*?! Glad you'll be happy, I cannot guarantee that I will be til much later in all likelihood. Hope to see you at 7.37ish. Nighty- night.


No ta. I'm already the lanterne rouge in the company I'm keeping tomorrow.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Dec 2012)

My last words on the subject.

RIDE ON!


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## musa (7 Dec 2012)

benborp said:


> @musa Do you have a time and place that you'll be passing through?


 
no, i live in brixton hill so i can ride via norwood up the hill into the one way gyratory of c palace (towards the iceland etc) or come the bus 3 route towards the bus depot

either or is good for me


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## musa (7 Dec 2012)

what route was you going through?


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## benborp (8 Dec 2012)

Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon, Portnalls Rd to Reigate then Lonesome Lane to Horley. 23 miles. Meet at The White Hart, top of the triangle, 6.30? I'll PM my mobile number.


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## Trickedem (8 Dec 2012)

Well, we have been lucky. Currently having elevenses in Groombridge. Sitting outside in the sunshine, but it is very cold.


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## rb58 (8 Dec 2012)

Cracking ride Greg. Top marks for arranging both a great route and some lovely weather. The day started early for me - I left home at 4.45am and thoroughly enjoyed riding through pitch black country lanes to Horley where I hooked up with Tim. We were the first customers at the Station Cafe for a Proper Breakfast (which in my case, seemed to be a plate of chips with some bacon, egg and beans on the side). Some quick fettling at Gatwick and we were soon all together ready for off. We took in some lovely country lanes, some steep bits - including The Wall, some great vistas. And all in top company. A Bakery Invasion in Groombridge before the Col De Groombridge was conquered prior to heading north to the Greensand Ridge and the North Downs. There was a lot of debris and water on the road in places, so care was needed, but the sun continued to shine and we made good progress. At the top of Ide Hill the ride split and three of us headed down towards Riverhead. I left Eddie and Moses at Dunton Green station then headed on to Otford. I'd intended going home via Eynsford, but changed my mind and decided to take Old Polhill - which turned out to be quite entertaining as, without cars, there's nothing to move the fallen leaves so I was quite often spinning the back wheel struggling for traction. Such Fun. Just over 103 miles for me, which completes my 2012 Century a Month Challenge.

All in all a great ride. Some fast bits, some steady bits. But all in good company.

Thanks everyone, but especially to Greg for making it happen.


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## Trickedem (8 Dec 2012)

Greg, thanks from me as well. I really enjoyed the ride and the company. I started at about 5 past 4, after insufficient sleep. It was a good ride out to Horley for Brekkie, but I stuck to main roads, which were very quiet. I ended the day with 134 miles on the clock and I've also just finished the century a month challenge. I must be a glutton for punishment, because I also did Hollingbourne Hill, which is a beast.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Dec 2012)

After the ride split I decided to bin the north of the M25 loop and head to as planned down to Sundridge, but there take the A25 through Brasted and then rejoin the 'proper' route for Toys Hill. Why? Didn't fancy mixing it in the dark with the race goers at Lingfield tbh.

Toys Hill. Ben has a theory. one of those theories you explain by way of helping me up a very long hill. I think it is a brilliant theory. But Ben has AyUp lights and is therefore a man of insight and discernment.

It occurred that all were heading to Horley/Gatwick so we may have paused at Smallfield for a pint or two. And some pork scratchings.

An entertaining, not to say challenging, ride made more fun by the company. We managed a 20kph moving average which is quite a bit faster than when I did it with some mates in March.

Will give some serious though to doing the route, or similar, clockwise in February.

Now I must have a bath, then go out and get really drunk on Manhattans. At some point a curry will be taken. But for now....

TELL 'EM ABOUT THE DEER TIM!


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## benborp (8 Dec 2012)

Yes, the wildlife was interesting. Tim pointed out a heron, then there was a deer...


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## musa (8 Dec 2012)

a deer that would of needed cpr if i hadnt ran into john(?) i think

one went across then tim went 'WHOOA'' so the rest thought '''umm fine well run across too' 

thanks guys for today.....sorry for the last 10miles before i split....id ran out of my reserves and was really struggling but yh the wall ive now met....and BEN who redemeed himself this morning thanks for the train ticket who another animal on a bike (now added to my list)


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## Shadow (9 Dec 2012)

It's very nearly 24 hours since arriving home and I'm still aching. I'm very glad we rode 'The Wall' at the beginning of the ride and not towards the end as I think I would have struggled severely. I was struggling the last 10 miles regardless!
Deer, what deer? How Musa stayed upright was impressive and how one of us did not have a collision was hard to comprehend.
Fantastic day out, fantastic route - would like to tackle it again when fit! - fantastic weather, fantastic scenery and fantastic company, of course.
Thanks Greg.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Dec 2012)

The key to enjoying An Hell is pacing yourself. Or being as fit and strong as Ben.


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## rb58 (9 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> The key to enjoying An Hell is pacing yourself. Or being as fit and strong as Ben.


In my current state of (un)fitness I find it pays not to attack the bottom of the hill, but to save it for the second half. Or, when it came to Said Wall, not at all.


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## Tim Hall (9 Dec 2012)

As everyone has said, what a lovely day that was. Top company, brilliant weather. I saw the Woodland Alliance (Bambi Division) episode from the back of the bunch. I'd seen the deer scampering along the field, parallel with the road. They disappeared from view and I thought they would pop up in the top corner, away from the road. After all, the noise of the cars would scare them away wouldn't it. Then the lead deer shot out of the hedge, almost causing mayhem. I shouted that there were more, and they appeared. Brakes were applied, adrenalin coursed. And we went on our way.

An earlier exchange somewhere near Giil's Lap:

Me: "Did you climb that on the big ring?" 

Nameless modest cyclist who needs to ingest more BEER and PIES: "I might have done"

Git.

It seems I was wrong about the leader of the Kidds Hill challenge. It's a bloke called Matt Green. Connal Yates (brother, not son of Sean) is second. Linky 

All in all a fantastic day.


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## JohnKilbey (11 Dec 2012)

GregCollins said:


> ....
> Will give some serious though to doing the route, or similar, clockwise in February.
> ....


 
I'd certainly be up for that. This was a very enjoyable ride in great company. Our leader's decision to combine the planned lunch and afternoon tea stops into a single late 'refreshment' stop was inspired!


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## benborp (11 Dec 2012)

It was a glorious ride. Great company. And the views! At this time of year they are fantastic and without all the leaves on the trees you get to see more of them. The low weak sunlight coming through the mist set everything off beautifully. 
By February hopefully all the chutney will have gone and the likes of ianrauk will be more willing to bring their pristine machines out. 

This appears timely:
Sussex deer.
How a dozen deer can pass through a string of nine cyclists without taking anyone out is beyond me. We were all stopped by the time most of them came across but it was pure chance that none of us were caught. They were missing us by inches.


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## mmmmartin (11 Dec 2012)

East Sussex CTC had a member in hospital with serious injuries after one deer hit a bunch of riders and several went down.


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