# SKS Mudguards - a warning to the designer



## Chutzpah (8 Jan 2011)

This is a message for the person who designed SKS mudguards, and also the person who wrote the instructions.

If we ever have the misfortune to meet, I may be forced to hurt you. I'm sorry that that is the case, but it's 1.49am on a Friday night and it's taken me several hours, with lots of swearing and shouting to fit your damn product. And it still isn't even complete.

It's probably best to stay out of my way for the moment, Mr SKS Mudguard man.

That is all.


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## slowmotion (8 Jan 2011)

Chutzpah said:


> This is a message for the person who designed SKS mudguards, and also the person who wrote the instructions.
> 
> If we ever have the misfortune to meet, I may be forced to hurt you. I'm sorry that that is the case, but it's 1.49am on a Friday night and it's taken me several hours, with lots of swearing and shouting to fit your damn product. And it still isn't even complete.
> 
> ...




It is a rite of passage old bean. The instructions are complete sh#t, as I discovered two months ago. Second time around it is really easy, but, seeing as how I endured your pain and frustration, can we meet up to deal the moron a bloody good kicking?


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## e-rider (8 Jan 2011)

The problem is that the guy who wrote the instructions already knows how to fit mudguards and it's a simple case of 'easy when you know how'

If I was the maker of mudguards I wouldn't even include instructions assuming that everyone could fit them. It's easy to forget your first time; especially if it was 30 years ago.


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## Aperitif (8 Jan 2011)

Chutzpah - check the second page, bottom right - you should see the writer's name there. In small letters: 'S. Legg' usually.


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## Chutzpah (8 Jan 2011)

This morning, after around 4 hours in total of faffing around (including yesterday), I'm at a stage where I'm happy with them. I think that maybe the best thing to do is completely ignore the instructions - but of course you don't know that until you're an hour into it. 

I like the first instruction to "check all parts are complete"... I would if you gave me a parts list! 

I've had to bodge the front, as none of the screws fit in the front brake block, but I think that might be a Trek thing as it's a different sized hole to everywhere else on the bike. 

The annoying thing is, now they're on and fitted properly, they look really nice! Just wish they sorted the instructions out! Oh, and make the stays shorter, I can't believe I have three quarters of an inch protruding when they're meant to be designed for my size of wheel.


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## Chutzpah (8 Jan 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Chutzpah - check the second page, bottom right - you should see the writer's name there. In small letters: 'S. Legg' usually.



No name on there. Maybe he's ashamed. I would be if I wrote that - part of my job involves writing user documentation and I'd be sacked if I wrote that garbage.


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## GrasB (8 Jan 2011)

I've never had a problem fixing SKS guards to bikes. As 30 seconds with a hacksaw or dremel sorts out any excess stay they don't need to make them shorter they need to make them longer! When bending them around things like disc brakes I find that they're not long enough & I end up having to make my own stays up.


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## slowmotion (8 Jan 2011)

I may have been entirely stupid, but the problem I had was working out an accurate way of cutting the stays to length, maintaining a uniform "tyre to guard" diameter, and still keeping the plastic protective end-caps intact. In the end, I just cut off the ends off the end-caps so that I could slide the stays up and down, and then cut the stays in-situ. I think that ColinJ regards unprotected stays as dangerous. He is almost certainly right.


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## MikeMc (8 Jan 2011)

The trick is to install them without the plastic end-caps then mark how much each stay needs to be cut, remove, cut, then re-install with the now correct length stays.

But yes, the instruction writer does need to die a painful death.


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## I like Skol (8 Jan 2011)

slowmotion said:


> I may have been entirely stupid, but the problem I had was working out an accurate way of cutting the stays to length, maintaining a uniform "tyre to guard" diameter, and still keeping the plastic protective end-caps intact. In the end, I just cut off the ends off the end-caps so that I could slide the stays up and down, and then cut the stays in-situ. I think that ColinJ regards unprotected stays as dangerous. He is almost certainly right.




I just went through this last week when fitting my Hybrid with a set of SKS Chromoplastics. I am quite handy so just had a quick glance at the drawings to get the gist of things then spread out the components to see what goes where and away I went. It did take a few hours but the result is worth it. The stays have to be over-long as the mounting eye can be in vastly different places from one frame to another. I also had to slightly bend the front stays on one side to clear the disc brake caliper and discarded the quick release clip thingy for the front as it was likely to cause problems with the caliper clearance.

The best way to establish the length that the stays need cutting to is to do a trial fit without the end caps then remove the stays one at a time and cut to length before refitting with the caps in place.

Not sure why or what you are trying to screw into the front brake block??? (presumably you mean through the fork crown?) but I found all the screws supplied matched the threads on my GT frame and also the chainstay and seatstay bridges were internally threaded so I saved a pile of SS nuts and ended up with a very neat job. I must admit the long bolt for the fork crown was only just long enough.


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## slowmotion (8 Jan 2011)

MikeMc said:


> The trick is to install them without the plastic end-caps then mark how much each stay needs to be cut, remove, cut, then re-install with the now correct length stays.
> 
> But yes, the instruction writer does need to die a painful death.




Blooming heck, Mike, that is so blindingly obvious now. You are a genius
 

Right, shall we spear his member with an uncut stay? Plenty of people would.


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## gaz (8 Jan 2011)

I got my LBS to fit them for me


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## aberal (8 Jan 2011)

I spent the best part of 2 days over the Christmas break trying to fit SKS mudguards to my bike. The problem I had was that I have wishbone stays at the rear and have fitted cross forks at the front and without going into the nitty gritties and to cut a LONG story short...realised that I could only fit the rear guard using zip ties and the front guard with an extra bracket and a bespoke bolt, washer and nut. Basically, not one of the supplied nuts and bolts fitted the bolt holes on the bike. In the end I decided that that was going to be a recipe for endless problems so had to return them. But I agree - the instructions were basically absolute nonsense.


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## slowmotion (8 Jan 2011)

aberal, welcome. Bring your torture instrument of choice


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## User482 (8 Jan 2011)

On the plus side, once they're fitted, they won't any adjustment. Ever.


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## HLaB (8 Jan 2011)

I cant say I've had a problem with them but I preferred the older design it was more adjustable when on the bike. My latest two sets have the type where the stays need to be cut down to size but rather than having that hassle I used stays of older (broken :-( ) sets that were all ready cut to size.


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## fossyant (9 Jan 2011)

PS once fitted they are awesome. Mine have been subject to lots of abuse over the last two years, and the shop I bought the bike off, even fitted the quick release safety tabs to the rear - essential for a fixed wheel bike - to allow for on-road repairs.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Jan 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Chutzpah - check the second page, bottom right - you should see the writer's name there. In small letters: 'S. Legg' usually.



surely he only provides instructions regarding mudguard removal?


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## Jezston (10 Jan 2011)

Mine only took about 2 hours to fit, which surprised me!

Has anyone had any difficulties getting the adjustment section screws to stay tight? I regularly find myself having to pull them up after they come loose and the mudguard slips down a bit and starts rubbing the tyre. In fact one of them has fallen out already and is currently temporarily retained with a cable tie.


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## buddha (10 Jan 2011)

Jezston said:


> ...* Has anyone had any difficulties getting the adjustment section screws to stay tight?* I regularly find myself having to pull them up after they come loose and the mudguard slips down a bit and starts rubbing the tyre. In fact one of them has fallen out already and is currently temporarily retained with a cable tie.


I used a file to rough-up the surface of the stays, around that area.

Though I don't remember getting any instructions with mine. Which is probably why they were so simple to install


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## mickle (10 Jan 2011)

After reading this thread I'm giving serious consideration to the idea of starting a nationwide mudguard fitting service.


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## RedBike (10 Jan 2011)

It always takes me HOURS to fit a set of sks mud-guards. The process normally seems to involve making brackets, trimming the guards and drilling new holes. 

Then you go out for your first ride and no matter how tightly you've secrured everything the stupid things always rub. 

My top tip is to use hot glue on the nuts and bolts so they don't come undone and they don't rattle


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## dodgy (10 Jan 2011)

A high quality instructional video would be better than any written instructions. I didn't have any trouble fitting my guards, I do have a good workstand and quality tools though. I can imagine it would be much harder trying to fit them with the bike leaning against a wall


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## totallyfixed (10 Jan 2011)

This is going to sound ridiculous, but I take mine off and put them back on at least half a dozen times per year. I keep them on through the winter but for any fair spells of weather I take them off because I like minimalism and the bike feels faster. Takes about 10 mins for each operation. I do sympathise though, the best tip I can give is to have a good tool base with lots of bike bits kept for a rainy day.


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## SquareDaff (10 Jan 2011)

Took me 2 nights of about 2 hours each to fit mine. Fit the front one the first night (as I had a cheapo mud catcher already on the rear) and then the back the night after. The instructions are total cr*p and I just ended up using the pictures and logic. Had the same problems with having to cut the stays as just about everyone here - also had to modify the support bracket for the rear mudguard. Haven't had any problems with the screws working lose - but they were a real ball ache to get in in the 1st place due to overpainting on the frame/forks. They're good when on though!!


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## vorsprung (10 Jan 2011)

Reading this thread I feel like an arch-fettler. I have never had any trouble fitting mudguards. However the fun isn't over once they are fitted. My blog has lots of mentions of mudguards (ie http://audaxing.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/the-bikes-weakest-part/ , http://audaxing.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/crud-road-racer-mudguards/ ) because they are a faffy waste of time.

If you want a less than optimal mudguard design then the Stronglight ones are the worst. The eyelet bolts are made from plastic. The rest of the mudguard kit is great, strong guards, stainless steel stays...but having such a key bit made from cheese-like plastic is not a recipe for contentment


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## Bodhbh (10 Jan 2011)

Never had a serious problem fitting them, but it's the job I hate most and does seem to end up taking a couple of hours and some sort of bodge. I hated cutting the down the stays so much I spent 50 quid on some fancy boltcroppers.


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## Davidc (10 Jan 2011)

The designer's not to blame - it's the writer of the instructons who needs to come to an inhuman and lingering medieval style end.

Helped to fit some to a friends bike a few weeks back. After 3/4 hour we decided the instructions needed to go in the recycling bin. A cup of tea and another 1/2 hour later they were on, another 15 minutes the stays were cut to length and they were back on and look set to stay that way, but we did need a non-SKS bolt out of my box to complete it.

Stays - measured in the trial fitting, cut in a vice using a hacksaw, and plastic bits fitted with added araldite after final fixing of the guards.

The instructions doubled or more the time taken from what it would have been if they'd been left out of the pack in the first place.


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## I like Skol (10 Jan 2011)

surely it isn't an enormous hardship as only done maybe once every ten years or so?


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## vorsprung (10 Jan 2011)

I like Skol said:


> surely it isn't an enormous hardship as only done maybe once every ten years or so?



I can take an SKS mudguard from "new out of the packet" to "broken, utterly useless" in 18 months


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## Davidc (10 Jan 2011)

I like Skol said:


> surely it isn't an enormous hardship as only done maybe once every ten years or so?



Not in my experience



vorsprung said:


> I can take an SKS mudguard from "new out of the packet" to "broken, utterly useless" in 18 months



Variable IME. They usually get split or cracked when a tough twig gets tangled in the wheel, usually going fast downhill on a country road. Average life about 2 1/2 years.


That said after 2 years my Horizon still has the guards fitted as new equipment . Don't think they're SKS though.


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## summerdays (10 Jan 2011)

gaz said:


> I got my LBS to fit them for me



Me too  when I bought both of my bikes from them ... and so far the original ones are still on there... though the end caps aren't. (I've taped them up and tried other things but what is the best replacement for the end caps?


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## Davidc (10 Jan 2011)

summerdays said:


> Me too  when I bought both of my bikes from them ... and so far the original ones are still on there... though the end caps aren't. (I've taped them up and tried other things but what is the best replacement for the end caps?



If you mean the bits that spread and drop the water at the bottom/back end a small hole drilled through and a pop rivet works well.

I don't use the official things, a suitably cut bit of inner tube works better. Can't put any of those on the Horizon ones though.

If you mean the plastic bits that go on the end of the stays I've used araldite rapid successfully on those.


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## ohnovino (10 Jan 2011)

Mine took several hours to fit, and the rears are held on by two strips of Meccano. That said, they're a great fit now, and I can take them on/off in a couple of minutes without any problems.

I'm dreading the day they break though, because I don't think I'm mentally strong enough to go through that ordeal all over again.


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## summerdays (10 Jan 2011)

Davidc said:


> If you mean the plastic bits that go on the end of the stays I've used araldite rapid successfully on those.



The plastic bits on the end of the stays that stop them scratching my leg in summertime...


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## Chutzpah (11 Jan 2011)

To pretty much all of you, all I can say is thank you for confirming that I'm not just an absolute one-off prize idiot :-)


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## Aperitif (11 Jan 2011)

Chutzpah said:


> To pretty much all of you, all I can say is thank you for confirming that I'm not just an absolute one-off prize idiot :-)



Well done Chutzpah. Now, about my earlier advice, on how to look for the writer of the 'instructions'...
Check out this article to find out 'S. Legg' - and his real views on mudguardia.

Maybe you'll even sign up for one of Simon's Rides - here. 
Have fun.


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## Scoosh (11 Jan 2011)

Chutzpah said:


> No name on there. Maybe he's ashamed. I would be if I wrote that - part of my job involves writing user documentation and I'd be sacked if I wrote that garbage.



Maybe you could help him by re-writing said instructions so they are comprehensible, comprehensive, applicable to all types of bike/brakes/forks/....






There could even be some money in it too



- if the eternal gratitude of hunners - thoosands even - of future no-stripe-up-the-back cyclists is not enough



.

New cash-generator in these straightened times



.


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## MacB (11 Jan 2011)

Hmmm, I never looked at the instructions and had no problems, maybe that's the key.


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## threebikesmcginty (11 Jan 2011)

MacB said:


> Hmmm, I never looked at the instructions and had no problems, maybe that's the key.



Same here - bit of tweaking and swearing to fit them but no worse than the usual fettling experience.


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## Davidc (11 Jan 2011)

MacB said:


> Hmmm, I never looked at the instructions and had no problems, maybe that's the key.



A wise man.

There's no problem once the instructions are in the recycling bin.


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## MacB (11 Jan 2011)

Davidc said:


> A wise man.
> 
> There's no problem once the instructions are in the recycling bin.



 I'm not claiming any great fettling skills either, though I had messed about with mudguards before, but it's one of those things that seems pretty obvious. When I had to work around disc brake calipers then I sought help on here and picked up various images from the web.


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## spiderman (4 Feb 2011)

Fiddly to fit and plastic fittings pathetic, had to replace 2 with zip ties, also major mods required to rear when fitting to my spec secteur elite.


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## Adasta (4 Feb 2011)

Got my LBS to do it after reading about some of the savagery experienced by those on various bike forums.

They did it for £10 within 20 minutes. Worth it


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## mattsccm (4 Feb 2011)

Think your selves lucky. I have just bought some Raleigh ones, made by SKS and with good reviews but no instructions at all.

I assume that the plastic wedge shaped thingies that fit over the eyes are some form of Qr and they go on the front but the angle they leave the stays at is not what is needed to fit the two mounting points. There are some bits of plastic that look like they fit partly around a round section tube but I haven't a clue what they do.
Once all that is sorted I have to make one fit round a disc caliper and invent some way of connecting the rear one to the BB which is about 6cm in front of the guard with no bridge. **&^%$"£!~


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