# Novice looking for advice please



## Goldenretriever (4 Jan 2019)

Hi just returned to the forum and have more time on my hands due to change of circumstances.
So I have joined Audax UK and hope to have a go sometime in the next few months.
The advice I would like from you hardened audaxers is about comfort, I'm happy riding 100 miles
but am worried going to 300-400kms. 
I run 25mm Gator hardshells on my best bike which goes around 10.5kgs
On my second bike I can fit 28-32mm tyres but 14kgs
Both are comfortable up to 100 but I have never ridden further and would be gratefull for any advice.
Thanks in advance


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## Racing roadkill (4 Jan 2019)

Goldenretriever said:


> Hi just returned to the forum and have more time on my hands due to change of circumstances.
> So I have joined Audax UK and hope to have a go sometime in the next few months.
> The advice I would like from you hardened audaxers is about comfort, I'm happy riding 100 miles
> but am worried going to 300-400kms.
> ...


The further you go, the less comfortable you’ll be. There’s not much you can to to stop any discomfort at all, but you can reduce it by getting a proper bike fit done, and trialing things like different shorts / bibs and saddle / other kit like pedals and shoes etc. combinations. There isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ answer. You’ll have to put the miles in, and tweak various bits of bike and clothing, until you find a combination that works for you. “One man’s meat, is another man’s poison” is never truer than when applied to doing long rides.


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## Goldenretriever (4 Jan 2019)

Interesting that all makes sense to me, just wondered if the consensus would be for bigger tyres with less pressure.
But as your say we are all different


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Jan 2019)

Welcome back @Goldenretriever

I am a newbie to the joy of Audax with only two seasons under my belt and my longest single ride has been 300km. I have done two lots of back to back 200s as well. I love it. I also love wider tyres. I run 32s in this 5 minutes. I have also spent all Christmas break testing 3 different Selle SMP saddles. Comfort and reliability is everything to me as a slower rider (20-22kph on hilly 200km+)

The resident Audax gurus that I can think of are @Ajax Bay , @YukonBoy , @Ian H and @Banjo . They could perhaps chime in.


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## Goldenretriever (4 Jan 2019)

Hi, HC thanks for the reply. I guess the second worry is if I use my second bike with wider tyres is the weight difference.
There's almost 4kgs between them, doesn't seem to matter to much in Norfolk but might do further afield


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## Goldenretriever (4 Jan 2019)

Hi, HC thanks for the reply. I guess the second worry is if I use my second bike with wider tyres is the weight difference.
There's almost 4kgs between them, doesn't seem to matter to much in Norfolk but might do further afield


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Jan 2019)

Goldenretriever said:


> Hi, HC thanks for the reply. I guess the second worry is if I use my second bike with wider tyres is the weight difference.
> There's almost 4kgs between them, doesn't seem to matter to much in Norfolk but might do further afield



Wait till you see the beautiful, real, steel bikes on Audax events. They might be heavier, but they are comfortable and usually, the owners have finished and are already home with a cuppa and some rice pudding long before the youngsters on carbon super bikes are back.


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## Goldenretriever (4 Jan 2019)

Heavy bike is a second hand van nic amazon frame I bought last year. DT Swiss wheels with a dynamo and 
tiagra triple. Its a heinz 57! Definately feels solid


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Jan 2019)

Nowt wrong with Ti. Or a Dynamo. Or triples.  Sounds like you have an ideal bike.


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## Racing roadkill (4 Jan 2019)

I use an alloy bike with a 9 speed triple for the longest multi day rides I do. It’s cheaper and easier to fix if it goes wrong. You might need a bobble hat and a wool jersey if you’re doing ‘Audaxes’ though.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

Anything up to 300km and in the warmer months you can travel fairly light with just a puncture repair kit and a gilet. What tends to happen as you go further is that your form goes as you fatigue. This can lead to what was comfortable becoming uncomfortable. You lean on the bars more, you get out the saddle less, you shift position less.

You will find every type of bike in Audax , from pure race bikes to Fat Bikes. Yes a 1200km brevet in India was completed on a fat bike.

So I would say try both bikes on some 200km events you fancy and see how you get on. The heavier bike will likely be fine unless you are already a slow rider. I use different bikes on different audaxes. When I started I ran 23mm tyres and that took me to London Edinburgh London at 1400km. I currently run 30mm tyres or 35mm if on my recumbent. The weight of the bike does not really matter as much as you think.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> I use an alloy bike with a 9 speed triple for the longest multi day rides I do. It’s cheaper and easier to fix if it goes wrong. You might need a bobble hat and a wool jersey if you’re doing ‘Audaxes’ though.



Don't knock merino makes a great material for a jersey. Great thing about Audax is anyone is accepted and we don't get snobbish about what people ride or wear. So if you want to wear a bobble hat on a winter Audax or a Santa hat and beard go ahead.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Nowt wrong with Ti. Or a Dynamo. Or triples.  Sounds like you have an ideal bike.
> 
> View attachment 445658



Groovy saddle


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## Heltor Chasca (4 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Groovy saddle



Enough of your jesting, poking and joshing. Test saddle. It’s a test saddle. I’m a serious cyclist and it was hard, so hard to ride with this monstrosity attached to my very serious bike.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Enough of your jesting, poking and joshing. Test saddle. It’s a test saddle. I’m a serious cyclist and it was hard, so hard to ride with this monstrosity attached to my very serious bike.



Of course it will need to be orange to match rest of colour scheme. My road bike has a blue scheme going at the moment.


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## Ajax Bay (4 Jan 2019)

Goldenretriever said:


> I have joined Audax UK and hope to have a go sometime in the next few months.
> The advice I would like from you hardened audaxers is about comfort, I'm happy riding 100 miles
> but am worried going to 300-400kms.
> I run 25mm Gator hardshells on my best bike which goes around 10.5kgs
> ...



Besides making sure either/both bikes fit well enough to give you a decent position, comfort for extended rides will depend on good interfaces at the contact points. Will also depend on regular 'distance' riding to HTFU the primary contact point.
1) Find a saddle that you find comfortable, at the right height. Wear shorts/or longer which have a decent (one that you find comfortable) pad. Consider cream (I use Sudocrem, supply left over from the now not so small ones).
2) Make sure that your position front/rear is such that you can ride along resting one finger of each hand on the bars. If not the seat needs to go back (and may need to fit a shorter stem). A bit of padding on the key bits of bar (just behind the hoods) may be of benefit (and can do no harm). Gloves with some padding to protect the ulnar nerve, but you may have to put up with a bit of ulnar neuropathy after really long rides. I think this article is worth reading (by a guy with whom I drink with (after riding to the pub)). https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/hand-numbness-and-long-distance-riding/
3) Some riders have no problems with their feet. During longer rides in preparation for an end-to-end I sought to improve my feet's lot, and bought a pair of 'Superfeet' insoles. They were better than the stock shimano/specialised road shoe insoles (and I completed my 9-day LEJOG without hot/hurty foot, and other 1000+k rides since then).

Tyres are the single best suspension mechanism for a rider (other than the rider's body/legs/arms itself). Everyone has their opinions and since you invite ours, I would replace the 25mm tyres with a better Conti or other tyre (the model will depend on your priorities for weight, durability, grip, rolling resistance, puncture protection and cost). Over the last few years I've used GP4000SIIs, GP 4 Seasons (currently 10000+km on the front), Michelin Pro4 Service Course and Pro4 Endurance. You don't say what pressures you're using - I use this BQ article (attached) and its graph to inform mine (and measure the actual width of my tyre, not relying on the nominal width). GP4000s come up wide so a 28 comes up (at 90psi on 15mm internal rim width wheels) at 30+mm.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistanc...-2014-vs-continental-grand-prix-4-season-2015

As far as riding further is concerned, further than the 161+km you've ridden 'happily' already, I suggest you find a local 200, perhaps when the weather's a little warmer, and go and ride it, with others. People will be riding at a range of speeds and rides in company are more fun and seem shorter. And if you can do 200 in March, why not another in April and a 300 in May. Both bikes would seem fine for such rides with a preference for the lighter one if there's a fair bit of scenery to be enjoyed.

Finally, I have it on reasonable authority that woolly hats are good for blocking orifices. 
HTH


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## Goldenretriever (5 Jan 2019)

Thank you to everyone who's chipped in with advice so far. There are e few things to make me think, but as usual most seems
like common sense when thought through.
Ajax Bay it's funny you've raised changing tyres to GP4000s as I've bought some this week to try! Been really pleased with the Hardshells
though, had one puncture within 300 miles due to metal tack and not one since. Tyres been on appro 18 months and north Norfolk lanes
are shocking. Running the 25mm 95 rear and 85 front.
As regards saddles have settled finally on Selle San Marco Royal on both bikes, it's sort of a bit retro which I like at my age! 
Don't seem to have a problem with feet and hot spotting.
As to wooly hats, well to keep other half happy am going to be wearing one more. Have not ridden since xmas eve as I went down
with vertigo early hours of boxing day morning. According to other half it's because I ride without my ears covered so will be doing
as I'm told to keep her quiet.


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## DCLane (5 Jan 2019)

I'd echo @Ajax Bay 's views re. GP4000S tyres, or the new GP5000's. I run 23/25mm versions and have used them fine on PBP (no punctures) and LEL (one at the end) plus others. Saddles are a personal preference: in a quirk of circumstance I use an old Fizik MTB saddle that was in my shed but fits fine. Chamois cream is a must for me, others don't use it. I've found Veloskin to be excellent for long distances.

Any issues start to appear around the 200mile/300km mark - fix that issue and another one/several appear. Once they're done you're OK.

One thing: add the route notes and other elements onto your bars along-side GPS mount and lights and it'll get very full. I've ended up with under-slung lights to make everything fit. It's odd bits you need to do, like have more than one front/rear light - if one breaks then you're stuck.

My bike's a home-built, using a frame and a lot of the components bought from CC members, set out as a tourer. It just _works _and is comfortable over a long distance. This is it set up for last year's Blackpool-Glasgow-Blackpool 600:


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## steveindenmark (5 Jan 2019)

This is only my advice. I was like you. 100km was the end of the world. I was then set a challenge to ride 22km every day for 22 days. For me that was a game changer. 22km quickly became a doddle. I made slight alterations to the bike and it became super comfortable. 

My rides just got longer and longer. My body learnt when it needed rest, food and water.

But you cannot just want to do it. You need to get out of bed and ride your bike. You have to acclimatise to riding a bike. 

Dont worry too much about the weight of the bike. Steel is the frame of choice by many ultra endurance riders. Comfort trumps weight. I would get bigger tyres. At least 28c. I pump mine up hard. 

Saddle. That is something you need to find for yourself. My saddle would probably not suit you and Brooks are not always the solution. I never recommend saddles. But WTB saddles may be worth a look at. I have just read an article about Josh Ibbert riding round the world and he was using a WTB saddle. Josh is a very experienced rider and these saddles are cheap. Worth a look.

My tips for riding 100km plus. 

To travel far you must slow down. 
Pick a cadence right from the start which is between your normal pedal stroke and spinning. Try and keep it all day. 

Keep snacking and drinking as you ride. 

If you stop for a break. Set your alarm. This is where time will run away with you. 

The more you ride your bike. The easier it gets. 

This is how I approach it.


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## Ajax Bay (5 Jan 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> I have it on reasonable authority that woolly hats are good for blocking orifices.





Goldenretriever said:


> As to woolly hats, well to keep other half happy am going to be wearing one more.


For the avoidance of doubt, my woolly hats comment referred to Post #10. I have the option of a lightweight or a slightly warmer under helmet head cover which I wear on colder mornings and carry/wear throughout the winter. My helmet wearing habit is mostly to assuage my perception of the uniformed judgement of my family.
Another thought ref comfort: get into the routine of changing around hand positions on the bars, look down as well as ahead to avoid neck issues (and exercise your neck (up, down, left, right)) and every so often stand up on the pedals and stretch with first one and then the other leg forward to keep your back happy(er).
Thanks to @Heltor Chasca for hailing. But compared to the randonneuring churchyard yew (aka @IanH), @DCLane is a young tree and I'm a mere sapling.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Jan 2019)

I wouldn’t use GP4000s during the winter. They cut up extremely easily and then become even more puncture prone. They are great in the summer though.


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## Ajax Bay (5 Jan 2019)

Put a GP4000 on the rear last January and it did me 7000+k through to September. Maybe 2 punctures in that 7000, both snake bites (so not down to tyre) - puncture prone? Not in my (or knowledgeable others') assessment, but they are not as robust/strong as 4 Seasons or Durano Plus. My GP 4 Seasons on the front has done 10,000+k and still looks good. I'd expect to replace it before the longer (BC and BCM) PBP qualifiers. Most of my riding is on rural roads around the country with a few per cent off-road thrown in for audacity.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/conti-gp4000s-ii-23-25-28


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## steveindenmark (5 Jan 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> I wouldn’t use GP4000s during the winter. They cut up extremely easily and then become even more puncture prone. They are great in the summer though.


I agree with this evenvthough they are on my bike as I type. Im too lazy to take mine off. I have repleced Jannies with marathon plus for the winter.

I will be putting GP5000TL on mine in the Spring.


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Jan 2019)

The poor man’s version of the above tyres seems to be Schwalbe Duranos. I use the basic Raceguard rather than the blue Plus or whatever it’s called. I have been very pleased and they work perfectly on the turbo too, so no messing about.


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## Banjo (6 Jan 2019)

If you can do 100 milers on both your bikes then a 200 km audax is only around 125miles. I would do a few 200 km audaxes on both bikes see which you prefer before going on to bigger distance. 

You will see everything from out and out racers on 23c to touring bikes on 32 or larger. Even see the odd fat bike taking part.


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## Goldenretriever (9 Jan 2019)

Hi, me again still pestering! Decided to get a second set of wheels for my best bike. I will then have two bikes with dynamo lighting
to use, would like thoughts on rims please. Have DT Swiss TK 540 on heavyer bike and they do seem good even with Hardshells on.
Max size tyre my best frame will take is 25mm and was thinking 32 spokes, I weigh approx 68kg so don't need brick outhouse wheels
but also want them strong enough. I don't know a great deal about the ins and outs of wheels but a little research lead me to Mavic
open pro. Are these any good or what are the alternatives. Thanks again in advance of all your help.


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## Domus (15 Jan 2019)

Sorry to hijack this thread but just a few weeks away from my first Audax. The info includes ROA 5000. I have no idea what this means.
Can someone shed light or am I missing something obvious?


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jan 2019)

Goldenretriever said:


> Hi, me again still pestering! Decided to get a second set of wheels for my best bike. I will then have two bikes with dynamo lighting
> to use, would like thoughts on rims please. Have DT Swiss TK 540 on heavyer bike and they do seem good even with Hardshells on.
> Max size tyre my best frame will take is 25mm and was thinking 32 spokes, I weigh approx 68kg so don't need brick outhouse wheels
> but also want them strong enough. I don't know a great deal about the ins and outs of wheels but a little research lead me to Mavic
> open pro. Are these any good or what are the alternatives. Thanks again in advance of all your help.



I use Mavic Open Pro and find them fine for Audax. I use 32 spoke rims and they remain true and no spokes have broken. You want reliability and also ability to keep riding if a spoke does break. More spokes facilitates carrying on in this latter scenario.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jan 2019)

Domus said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread but just a few weeks away from my first Audax. The info includes ROA 5000. I have no idea what this means.
> Can someone shed light or am I missing something obvious?



It is a rating of the experience of the organiser. No something you really need to worry about. They may be a new organiser and brilliant or a more experienced one and so so. You will know once you have done an organiser' event how their style suits you and how well the events run, and likely quality of their other events.


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## Domus (15 Jan 2019)

Ta


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## PpPete (15 Jan 2019)

Goldenretriever said:


> Hi, me again still pestering! Decided to get a second set of wheels for my best bike. I will then have two bikes with dynamo lighting
> to use, would like thoughts on rims please. Have DT Swiss TK 540 on heavyer bike and they do seem good even with Hardshells on.
> Max size tyre my best frame will take is 25mm and was thinking 32 spokes, I weigh approx 68kg so don't need brick outhouse wheels
> but also want them strong enough. I don't know a great deal about the ins and outs of wheels but a little research lead me to Mavic
> open pro. Are these any good or what are the alternatives. Thanks again in advance of all your help.


I built my first few sets of wheels on Open Pros and they never disappointed, but brake tracks wearing out quite quickly with Audax mileages was a bit of an issue, and I think there are now better options out there. Ambrosio Excellence are good, but my current favourite are H+Son Archetypes. Not much heavier than Open Pros, and very much stiffer. The lack of eyelets is a minor PITA when building, but I've never had a spoke pull through. They are quite deep / aero so they look the business too, not that anyone was ever swayed by vanity - were we?


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