# Club ride average speeds, could i keep up ?



## Ridgeway (10 Jan 2020)

I've been hesitating about joining a club local to me, there's actually only one club but it does have a good reputation and seems well established. Overall i've never been a club person but i'm sure i'd benefit from riding with some other people, each time i've accidentally done this when bumping into people out on the road i've really enjoyed it. My second reason and it was really what keeps me thinking about it is my 12yrs daughter seems reasonable keen on road cycling after having recycled one of my old Scott bikes onto her and i had wondered if it would give her a bit more of a bug if she joined the club. My hesitation is always about my abilities as when is see the boys passing through my village they aren't half flying along and they on average look more like racing snakes vs a middle aged portly Mancunian.....

Looking on their website they say the rides are at 27-28 kmh average which i average on a 50-60km ride with say 500-700m of elevation, but that's a pretty reasonable effort for me, one a would struggle to hold much on a conversation on. What i have no experience of is the benefits of riding in a small group of say 5-10 riders and what advantage that would bring to me in terms of energy saving and being able to have a chat with someone ?

Do i need to improve before joining and embarrassing myself ?


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## DCLane (10 Jan 2020)

You won't know unless you try. And you may find there are rides for different levels.

In terms of speed you'll be quite a bit quicker from riding in a group than solo.


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## Ridgeway (10 Jan 2020)

DCLane said:


> You won't know unless you try. And you may find there are rides for different levels.
> 
> In terms of speed you'll be quite a bit quicker from riding in a group than solo.



Yes true but at the risk of embarrassment or more like the harsh reality of finding out i'm slower than i think i am...

If i saw a chubby fella with their club shirt on that would inspire me i think but the racing snakes make me think twice. It's not expensive so i guess i'll have to give it a go, just need some decent weather and lighter evenings.


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## RoubaixCube (11 Jan 2020)

Sometimes some clubs run two groups. One for the faster rides and the other for slower.

I went through a period where a friend an i we're scouting for clubs to join. we went on club rides with the odd one and found them to be too snobbish in general. some other clubs never responded to emails and im not an FB user so never bothered trying to get in touch.

In the end it was just more fun staying out of it and doing CC and Fridays rides. Though i wish CC rides would happen more regularly than once a month.


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## screenman (11 Jan 2020)

Our club has lots of runs out every week, some organised and some not, from 10mph to 20 mph and all in between. Most clubs I know of do much the same, it is only the fast ones most people notice.


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## dave r (11 Jan 2020)

Most clubs have different rides for different abilities, talk to someone from the club and see if you can find out more about them.


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## sheddy (11 Jan 2020)

Go for it, but chose a day with nice calm, dry weather.


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## Dogtrousers (11 Jan 2020)

The OP has a location of Switzerland so maybe our experience of UK clubs won't apply.

If you do go along and a guy says "Hi I'm Fabian, I'll be leading today's ride" then it might be best to make your excuses and leave.


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## Venod (11 Jan 2020)

If its the fast group ride of the club their average for the ride could be higher than the 27-28 kph you are used to, but you will be able to ride at an higher average in a group, you can but try, but I have seen a lot of people dissapointed and put of with what they see as elitists cyclists dropping a newcomer, when in reality they are just doing the normal riding of a fast group, you could start with a slower group and when you think you are ready, move to the fast group, this is how a lot of riders progress, but all clubs differ with rules and internal politics, and this also puts people off.


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## Sharky (11 Jan 2020)

Most club runs honour the rule "The fastest speed is that of the slowest"


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## cyberknight (11 Jan 2020)

Contact them for more info would be the best bet .
The club i ride with i am a ride leader for the sunday ride and we state the average speed expected and i usually post the route via our facefuff page.
We do also run 2-3 saturday rides which are more popular and the the club founder would point any new rider to a group that he thinks would be alright for them to ride.
As for riding in a group you gain a lot from riding in a bunch, last week i organized the ride as usual but TBH i was not well but felt i had to turn up and the other riders just let me ride at the back as you gain a good 10-20 % bonus from drafting and i made it around albeit with them waiting on hills.
What are you group riding skills like ? If you dont have much experience in it then it can be daunting and dangerous for you and other riders if they ride nose to tail and you are not used to their communication calls and signals as well as the confidence and skills for that sort of riding .If they run a beginners group hopefully you can gain the experience for that sort of riding , when i started the group rode further apart and now i can ride inches from the wheel in front of riders i know and trust .
As i said at the start contact them !


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## mjr (11 Jan 2020)

Sharky said:


> Most club runs honour the rule "The fastest speed is that of the slowest"


I am not sure that is true but most do at least say whether they are "no drop" or "no prisoners" and most of those stick to it.

Answering the OP: I'd give it a go with those stats but you won't know for sure until you do. Some clubs state optimistic speeds, some get carried away on the day.


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## Venod (11 Jan 2020)

mjr said:


> some get carried away on the day.



I find this to be more the norm than the exception, but I am sure ther will be more sedate groups out there somewhere.


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## cyberknight (11 Jan 2020)

mjr said:


> I am not sure that is true but most do at least say whether they are "no drop" or "no prisoners" and most of those stick to it.
> 
> Answering the OP: I'd give it a go with those stats but you won't know for sure until you do. Some clubs state optimistic speeds, some get carried away on the day.


indeed my last club the fast group kept together untill the cake stop then it was tough luck as they put the hammer down, if you were off the back then you were left . I remember they were doing over 25 mph on the flat when i got spat out the back at a junction and that was it .


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## Racing roadkill (11 Jan 2020)

Are those average speeds uphill, downhill, on the flat, into a headwind, with a tail wind? Ask them what sort of normalized power to weight numbers their riders have, that will give you a better idea of where they are at / where you’re at. I’d bet my balls to a barn dance they don’t have a clue. If so, I’d avoid any club that has that level of ignorance ( which is pretty much every club I’ve ever encountered). If however they do know, they might be worth a look.


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## mjr (11 Jan 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> Are those average speeds uphill, downhill, on the flat, into a headwind, with a tail wind? Ask them what sort of normalized power to weight numbers their riders have, that will give you a better idea of where they are at / where you’re at. I’d bet my balls to a barn dance they don’t have a clue. If so, I’d avoid any club that has that level of ignorance ( which is pretty much every club I’ve ever encountered). If however they do know, they might be worth a look.


Words fail me... Anyone asking our group for our normalised power to weight numbers is likely to get very silly answers, probably involving 220v.


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## davidphilips (11 Jan 2020)

Most clubs are willing for a non club cyclist to join in,so give it a try, as for speed you should be ok, dont be to disheartened if you find the runs hard (you may even find them easy) as you may be at a disadvantage in not knowing when theres a hill coming up or how far before a rest stop? If you dont try then you may regret not having tried.


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## screenman (11 Jan 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> Are those average speeds uphill, downhill, on the flat, into a headwind, with a tail wind? Ask them what sort of normalized power to weight numbers their riders have, that will give you a better idea of where they are at / where you’re at. I’d bet my balls to a barn dance they don’t have a clue. If so, I’d avoid any club that has that level of ignorance ( which is pretty much every club I’ve ever encountered). If however they do know, they might be worth a look.



I am sure all of the over seventies in the Lincoln Wheelers who do the Wednesday run along with a lot of other rides each week will know those numbers, you have I take it only been a member of a pure racing club.


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## Racing roadkill (11 Jan 2020)

mjr said:


> Words fail me... Anyone asking our group for our normalised power to weight numbers is likely to get very silly answers, probably involving 220v.


As I said.......


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## bigjim (11 Jan 2020)

Meet a lot of Swiss riders in Mallorca and they all seem to be keen racing snakes. My Brother in law lives in Kloten near Zurich and is a club cyclist. He goes like the proverbial S... off a Shovel. So maybe the Club scene over there is not at our UK CTC levels.


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## cyberknight (11 Jan 2020)

bigjim said:


> Meet a lot of Swiss riders in Mallorca and they all seem to be keen racing snakes. My Brother in law lives in Kloten near Zurich and is a club cyclist. He goes like the proverbial S... off a Shovel. So maybe the Club scene over there is not at our UK CTC levels.


More likely just like the uk you have pootle social ride clubs and the omfg look at em go clubs too


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## Pale Rider (11 Jan 2020)

Go on the ride, go to the front, and slow them down.

It will work for a short distance until they realise what you are up to.

Then you will be swamped, but at least you will get to 'meet' everyone as they go past.


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## Stompier (11 Jan 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> Are those average speeds uphill, downhill, on the flat, into a headwind, with a tail wind?



Doesn't sound like you understand what an 'average' is.


Racing roadkill said:


> Ask them what sort of normalized power to weight numbers their riders have, that will give you a better idea of where they are at / where you’re at. I’d bet my balls to a barn dance they don’t have a clue. If so, I’d avoid any club that has that level of ignorance ( which is pretty much every club I’ve ever encountered). If however they do know, they might be worth a look.



Good lord. What a load of ignorant nonsense. Seriously. You clearly have no idea of what 'normalised power' actually is. And there is no such measure as 'normalised power to weight'. I don't get how you are allowed to get away with regularly posting this kind of BS.

To the OP - as someone said upthread - there's only one way to find out.


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## Stompier (11 Jan 2020)

screenman said:


> you have I take it only been a member of a pure racing club



I seriously doubt if he's ever even pinned a number on. He would be laughed out of any competitive club for this kind of nonsense - and deservedly so.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Jan 2020)

You can use up to 40% less power for the same speed when drafting. So you may find you are able to keep up as long as you sit in the group, don’t go on the front , or fall off the back.

As an example I found my HR was 13 bpm higher working on the front than sitting in. The difference between working at threshold on the front and being relatively comfortable in the pack.

So give it a go and see how you get on.


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## Stompier (11 Jan 2020)

With all due respect to the above posts (except racing roadkill's), perhaps now we can all stop talking about 'normalised power', drafting and the like, in a thread about a guy taking his 12yo daughter on a club ride.


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## YellowV2 (11 Jan 2020)

Hilarious I nearly choked on my tea, I’d say uphill into a headwind! 
You do make me laugh @ Racing roadkill, worth reading your posts just for the entertainment! 😂


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## cyberknight (11 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> With all due respect to the above posts (except racing roadkill's), perhaps now we can all stop talking about 'normalised power', drafting and the like, in a thread about a guy taking his 12yo daughter on a club ride.


In part yes although drafting in a group ride is all part of the ride and the power you need to be able to develop or the speed you can ride at is affected by drafting and could mean the difference between staying with a group that are a bit faster and struggling .


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## Stompier (11 Jan 2020)

cyberknight said:


> In part yes although drafting in a group ride is all part of the ride and the power you need to be able to develop or the speed you can ride at is affected by drafting and could mean the difference between staying with a group that are a bit faster and struggling .



Not disagreeing, except to say that those are not the kinds of things a 12yo needs to be taking away as memories of her (or his) first club ride.


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> The OP has a location of Switzerland so maybe our experience of UK clubs won't apply.
> 
> If you do go along and a guy says "Hi I'm Fabian, I'll be leading today's ride" then it might be best to make your excuses and leave.



Spartacus lives not too far away, in fact there's plenty of good riders around here, when i look at local KOM's i see plenty of GC names.


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

cyberknight said:


> What are you group riding skills like ? If you dont have much experience in it then it can be daunting and dangerous for you and other riders if they ride nose to tail and you are not used to their communication calls and signals as well as the confidence and skills for that sort of riding .If they run a beginners group hopefully you can gain the experience for that sort of riding , when i started the group rode further apart and now i can ride inches from the wheel in front of riders i know and trust .
> As i said at the start contact them !



That's great info as i have only ever ridden with 1 other person and even that is a rarity. So looks like i'll need to learn how to group ride, off to do some research.


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

bigjim said:


> Meet a lot of Swiss riders in Mallorca and they all seem to be keen racing snakes. My Brother in law lives in Kloten near Zurich and is a club cyclist. He goes like the proverbial S... off a Shovel. So maybe the Club scene over there is not at our UK CTC levels.



The boys i've seen do seem pretty keen here and there's not too many clubs, the local one looks impressive enough from the outside, probably full of lardy blokes in reality


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You can use up to 40% less power for the same speed when drafting. So you may find you are able to keep up as long as you sit in the group, don’t go on the front , or fall off the back.
> 
> As an example I found my HR was 13 bpm higher working on the front than sitting in. The difference between working at threshold on the front and being relatively comfortable in the pack.
> 
> So give it a go and see how you get on.



That's great info, thanks for that.


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> With all due respect to the above posts (except racing roadkill's), perhaps now we can all stop talking about 'normalised power', drafting and the like, in a thread about a guy taking his 12yo daughter on a club ride.



actually i just meant that it might motivate her to join the club as well and join the junior section, think i may to as well


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## Stompier (11 Jan 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> actually i just meant that it might motivate her to join the club as well and join the junior section, think i may to as well



Perhaps racing roadkill could join her on the junior ride


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## Ridgeway (11 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> Perhaps racing roadkill could join her on the junior ride


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## mjr (12 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> Perhaps racing roadkill could join her on the junior ride


Why? What nermalised poor two eight ratio have they?


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## PaulSB (12 Jan 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> Are those average speeds uphill, downhill, on the flat, into a headwind, with a tail wind? Ask them what sort of normalized power to weight numbers their riders have, that will give you a better idea of where they are at / where you’re at. I’d bet my balls to a barn dance they don’t have a clue. If so, I’d avoid any club that has that level of ignorance ( which is pretty much every club I’ve ever encountered). If however they do know, they might be worth a look.


This is very dismissive of all cyclists regardless of whether a club rider or not. I have absolutely no idea of or interest in my normalised power to weight numbers. I don't even know how to measure it but imagine it requires me to buy a power meter? I can though tell you my expected averages under all the conditions you describe, it's simply experience.

I'd like you to justify why you feel all cyclists who are not aware of this detail are ignorant. I have friends who can give chapter and verse on such subjects. They would be at most 10% of my club's membership and I can assure you the remaining 90% are far from ignorant. I would suggest your level of ignorance is way beyond that of any of my cycling friends.

My advice to the OP would be to avoid clubs which are obsessed by numbers and look for one that is highly focused on cycling.


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## Stompier (12 Jan 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I have absolutely no idea of or interest in my normalised power to weight numbers.



Nobody will. It's a made-up term. There is 'normalised power' and there is 'power to weight'. But not 'normalised power to weight'.


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## PaulSB (12 Jan 2020)

@Ridgeway my club runs five "official" rides to accommodate riders of varying abilities. The average speeds, in mph, would be 13, 15 (flat), 15 (hilly), 17 (flat), 20+ (flat). We also have a wide range of "unofficial" rides taking place which suit many different styles. In case you are unsure an "official" ride is one organised by the club, usually with a leader and published route. All those who take part are expected to respect the average speed, not ride off the front etc. An "unofficial" ride is simply when a bunch of people say this is what we are doing who wants to come along.

Your speeds sound good to me and if asked I would suggest you would initially look at out 15 (flat) group to gauge where you fir and then try other rides as appropriate. If you were to bring your daughter you would be asked to start on an Intro ride (the 13avg ride) which stays close to home, accommodates the least experienced riders etc. The leader and sweeper would assist you if needed and quietly comment on how they feel your daughter might fit in.


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## PaulSB (12 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> Nobody will. It's a made-up term. There is 'normalised power' and there is 'power to weight'. But not 'normalised power to weight'.



That's interesting as I've never heard our guys used the normalised term. I understand power to weight and the benefits *some *of my friends who measure all sorts of things gain. There are some who work hard with this detail and I can physically observe how it improves their performance. I know others who are obsessed with measurement, diet etc and I can still climb faster than them!!!! The common thing all my friends have in this is they are genuinely interested and knowledgeable on the subject, they enjoy it.


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## Stompier (12 Jan 2020)

PaulSB said:


> That's interesting as I've never heard our guys used the normalised term. I understand power to weight and the benefits *some *of my friends who measure all sorts of things gain. There are some who work hard with this detail and I can physically observe how it improves their performance. I know others who are obsessed with measurement, diet etc and I can still climb faster than them!!!! The common thing all my friends have in this is they are genuinely interested and knowledgeable on the subject, they enjoy it.



'Normalised' in this context just means that an algorithm has been applied to a rider's power data to give a better representation of effort across the ride. Tends to be used as an alternative to 'average' power, which is generally a slightly lower number. Only really useful if you are tracking power numbers as part of a structured program. It can be used to calculate power to weight (w/kg), but the resulting number is only relevant to a specific set of ride data and not generally useful.


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## PaulSB (12 Jan 2020)

@Stompier - thank you. That is useful.


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## Venod (12 Jan 2020)

Normalised power power is calculated if you are using a power meter and upload your ride to Garmin Connect, if you upload to Strava it is listed as weighted average power, which I think is the same thing, they must use different algorithems as the figures differ slightly for the same ride.


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## iluvmybike (12 Jan 2020)

Never mind the OP being able to keep up - more importantly will his 12 yr old be able to do so in a bunch of adults?


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## Stompier (12 Jan 2020)

iluvmybike said:


> Never mind the OP being able to keep up - more importantly will his 12 yr old be able to do so in a bunch of adults?



That all depends on the 12yo's normalised power, apparently


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## Dogtrousers (12 Jan 2020)

Stompier said:


> That all depends on the 12yo's normalised power, apparently


Normalised poer _to weight_ please. Don't you know nuffink?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Normalised poer _to weight_ please. Don't you know nuffink?



Only If the rides are very hilly, else it’s pure normalised power to aero drag and surface area don’t you know? Any good club should be able to provide expected values for these.😂


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## Ridgeway (12 Jan 2020)

iluvmybike said:


> Never mind the OP being able to keep up - more importantly will his 12 yr old be able to do so in a bunch of adults?





Ridgeway said:


> actually i just meant that it might motivate her to join the club as well and join the junior section, think i may to as well


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## mjr (13 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Normalised poer _to weight_ please. Don't you know nuffink?


Does the double negative mean you're asking if we know everything? Clearly, we do. Check the archives of this site.


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## rogerzilla (15 Jan 2020)

The Beacon RCC club rides I went on when I lived in Birmingham were the right sort of pace. I think they described it as "fast touring". Whatever the route, the moving average was always very close to 15.5mph by the time I was home. This meant the cruising speed on the flat was about 18mph - slow enough to chat, but fast enough to keep sentences short!

The club rides around here are a moronic willy-waving exercise in comparison. I've seen 29mph on the flat.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jan 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> The Beacon RCC club rides I went on when I lived in Birmingham were the right sort of pace. I think they described it as "fast touring". Whatever the route, the moving average was always very close to 15.5mph by the time I was home. This meant the cruising speed on the flat was about 18mph - slow enough to chat, but fast enough to keep sentences short!


I managed speeds like that once. There was a howling gale from the west and I was riding a flat route going East. 

Actually that's not quite true, I didn't manage to go _that_ fast.


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## mjr (17 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I managed speeds like that once. There was a howling gale from the west and I was riding a flat route going East.
> 
> Actually that's not quite true, I didn't manage to go _that_ fast.


Moving average is meaningless in at least two major ways:
1. moronically charging up to lights and junctions, slamming on the brakes to stop dead and then sprinting away produces higher speeds than coasting up and pedalling through a gap or green;
2. Some people mess with their autopause settings to raise their moving average speed.

Overall average speed and cruising speed is probably a more reliable summary and even that ain't great.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Jan 2020)

Exactly the average pace might look reasonable but if they charge up hills and freewheel down them that’s a very different profile to pedalling up and down at a more balanced pace.


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## Ridgeway (18 Jan 2020)

I've asked at said club if i can join a couple of rides to see how i get on, it's something offered on their club website, that was a week ago and haven't heard anything back as yet.

Decided to check out another club as a back up, the first one is in the next village so is only 5km away, the next one is about 12km away. Took a look at their website and scrolled through some of the members and noticed Danilo Wyss on the list

KOM's round here are definitely "Pro level"


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## screenman (18 Jan 2020)

So a few fast riders and a few that cannot manage double figures, with a lot in between.


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## iandg (18 Jan 2020)

iluvmybike said:


> Never mind the OP being able to keep up - more importantly will his 12 yr old be able to do so in a bunch of adults?



Did my first 100 miler with a club when I was 12. A reliability trial, stayed with the club group all the way.


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## iandg (18 Jan 2020)

If a club is worth joining it will wait for a new rider and make sure that they complete the route safely.


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## Ridgeway (18 Jan 2020)

iandg said:


> Did my first 100 miler with a club when I was 12. A reliability trial, stayed with the club group all the way.
> View attachment 501076



That Sir is very impressive, at 12yrs old !!! chapeau


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## mjr (18 Jan 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> I've asked at said club if i can join a couple of rides to see how i get on, it's something offered on their club website, that was a week ago and haven't heard anything back as yet.


After a week, I'd ask another way in case the message isn't going to the right person but I'm pushy like that.


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## Kernow_T (21 Jan 2020)

Cycling and cyclists (to a large degree) have so much ego (and thus insecurity as they go hand in hand) which is part of the reason club cycling is often seen as so 'twattish' and anything but inclusive. My local club has a no drop policy which, erm, isn't a no-drop policy if you're within 20 miles of home and going too slow for the group's liking. The talk of racing snakes Vs lardy blokes is pretty derogatory (and I sense only the slightest tongue in cheek) and the type of thing along with "will I be embarrassed?" that puts people off cycling full stop and creates a real snobbery between cyclists and people that cycle. No one can answer whether you'll be embarrassed or not as it depends if one finds giving something their all, enjoying it but not being as quick as others, as somehow shameful! Also, I'm sure we've all been dropped by lardy blokes in the past so don't judge a book and all that! I blame social media and Strava in particular - people only enjoying rides of they're setting PRs or a certain average speed or commonly ensuring they avoid shame and the fear of anyone thinking they might be....slow...by titling the ride
- Just taking it easy
- Having a pootle
- spinning the legs
Anyway, the answer is, just go for it and try and get in a mindset that encourages you to enjoy a club ride based on your own intrinsic sense of enjoyment and achievement, perhaps not based on speed. I mean, what's better, a 12mph ave ride where your eyes are constantly spotting new scenery and things and perspectives you've never seen before or an 18mph ave speed rode where you've looked at your Garmin and tarmac for 3 hours straight? Many I know, would take the latter (for more Strava kudos).


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## PaulSB (21 Jan 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> I've asked at said club if i can join a couple of rides to see how i get on, it's something offered on their club website, that was a week ago and haven't heard anything back as yet.
> 
> Decided to check out another club as a back up, the first one is in the next village so is only 5km away, the next one is about 12km away. Took a look at their website and scrolled through some of the members and noticed Danilo Wyss on the list
> 
> KOM's round here are definitely "Pro level"



In my club newcomers generally turn up at the Meeting Point and ask if they can tag along. There are then pointed towards the different groups and asked which one they would like to ride with.

I wouldn't take too much notice of the post above. I've been in three clubs and none have been like that. I know +/- 150 of my fellow club members, one is a bit of a twat but we just leave him to get on with it. I know people from plenty of north-west clubs and none fit the description. You have to accept there are people who simply don't like cycle clubs.


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## screenman (21 Jan 2020)

Most of the rides by our club members are 12mph.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jan 2020)

Kernow_T said:


> Cycling and cyclists (to a large degree) have so much ego (and thus insecurity as they go hand in hand) which is part of the reason club cycling is often seen as so 'twattish' and anything but inclusive.


Sounds like you've had a bad experience.

I was a member of a club for a while and they were very nice. Rides went at advertised pace and I tootled along happily in my chosen group (and I'm pretty slow) and never got dropped. All jolly nice. 

Just posting that to say that not _all_ cycling clubs have insecure twattery written into their articles of association.


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## Kernow_T (22 Jan 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Sounds like you've had a bad experience.
> 
> I was a member of a club for a while and they were very nice. Rides went at advertised pace and I tootled along happily in my chosen group (and I'm pretty slow) and never got dropped. All jolly nice.
> 
> Just posting that to say that not _all_ cycling clubs have insecure twattery written into their articles of association.



I haven't been able to articulate my thoughts as I intended (comes across more disparaging than intended). It was more a case of, once the insecurities about speed set in (not helped by FB/kudos/Strava etc), it can really snowball and start to dominate riding/enjoyment/in(ex)clusivity. I appreciate there are clubs that cater for everyone and are especially considerate to beginners (without being patronising) but I'm recent years I've seen a number of beginner/slower cyclists simply not have a club ride to go on (inc the social Sunday) which I think is a travesty. No intention to criticize the OP - it's just a shame that, as a regular cyclist, 'the cycling world, has, in part, caused you to feel anxious (more than excited) about joining a cycle club.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Jan 2020)

The club i was in and am thinking about rejoining has a Wednesday 'lesser ability,slower rider introduction to cycling in a group' ride which i enjoyed and to be honest was about my limit. The last time i rode with them there were about 4 riders who came along but normally ride with the 'fast' Tuesday and Thursday group. They tried to up the pace and complained at the cafe stop break that the Wednesday group ride was far too slow for them. Why the feck did they turn up if the group wasn't fast enough for them?! No wonder some folk think about joining cycling clubs,but are apprehensive when they think they might be humiliated.


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## Pale Rider (24 Jan 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> I've asked at said club if i can join a couple of rides to see how i get on, it's something offered on their club website, that was a week ago and haven't heard anything back as yet.



Cycling clubs generally are not very good at responding to such requests, but I wouldn't take the lack of response as any indication one way or the other.

The leader of my cycling group told me he all but stopped responding to online inquiries after several exchanges with prospective members which proved fruitless.

Just turning up and making yourself known may be an intimidating thought, but it's the only way to reliably make progress.


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## Ridgeway (10 Feb 2020)

Well i got a positive answer back this weekend to turn up for 3 weekend rides, just need to know where and when. Hopefully seeing some lycra clad thin people may shame me into losing weight


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## Ridgeway (12 May 2020)

So update:

Spring schedule was announced, was looking forward to "please keep up at the back (s'il vous plaît restez à l'arrière)" and then a few days later all was locked down and things put on hold (this was all end March time).

Things have since been opened up some what and the club announced this week that rides of 5 people or less are permitted. First outing is this Thursday. Just hope i get the 4 slower guys

But...... i took the last 7wks to get my butt in gear and lost over 6kgs and got my ave speed up, now averaging 30kmh over 130km distances with 1000m of climbing so feeling a bit more confident that i may have a chance to keep up.

My wife reckons i'm only interested in the club jersey, am i that shallow


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## Ming the Merciless (12 May 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> So update:
> 
> Spring schedule was announced, was looking forward to "please keep up at the back (s'il vous plaît restez à l'arrière)" and then a few days later all was locked down and things put on hold (this was all end March time).
> 
> ...



That’s in breach of the new lockdown rules announced this week. Why are they deciding to disregard them?


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## Ridgeway (12 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> That’s in breach of the new lockdown rules announced this week. Why are they deciding to disregard them?



Because we live in cheese land


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## Ming the Merciless (12 May 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> Because we live in cheese land



ah hah hadn’t looked at your location!


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## PaulSB (12 May 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> So update:
> 
> Spring schedule was announced, was looking forward to "please keep up at the back (s'il vous plaît restez à l'arrière)" and then a few days later all was locked down and things put on hold (this was all end March time).
> 
> ...


Can't see you having much of a problem on a club ride!


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## rogerzilla (13 May 2020)

How do you make a Swiss roll? Give him a bike, it seems!


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## Ridgeway (13 May 2020)

don't mention cake


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## Sharky (13 May 2020)

Take care at junctions, you don't want to be Tobleroned.


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## byegad (13 May 2020)

It all depends on the leader. I used to attend York Rally and do the Medium/Slow 30 mile Saturday ride. I did this for years, then the leader changed. On his first ride, and the last time I did it, we set off at pace and soon people were dropping out at regular intervals. I was soon spinning out on my admittedly low 86" top gear. Arriving for lunch 30 minutes behind the survivors my friend and I made the decision to make our own way back to the Knavesmire.


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## screenman (13 May 2020)

byegad said:


> It all depends on the leader. I used to attend York Rally and do the Medium/Slow 30 mile Saturday ride. I did this for years, then the leader changed. On his first ride, and the last time I did it, we set off at pace and soon people were dropping out at regular intervals. I was soon spinning out on my admittedly low 86" top gear. Arriving for lunch 30 minutes behind the survivors my friend and I made the decision to make our own way back to the Knavesmire.



Did nobody tell the leader he was doing wrong, I know I would certainly have done so.


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## Ridgeway (13 May 2020)

byegad said:


> It all depends on the leader. I used to attend York Rally and do the Medium/Slow 30 mile Saturday ride. I did this for years, then the leader changed. On his first ride, and the last time I did it, we set off at pace and soon people were dropping out at regular intervals. I was soon spinning out on my admittedly low 86" top gear. Arriving for lunch 30 minutes behind the survivors my friend and I made the decision to make our own way back to the Knavesmire.



Don't worry i'll be looking for a 20 stone leader


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## mjr (13 May 2020)

screenman said:


> Did nobody tell the leader he was doing wrong, I know I would certainly have done so.


Some people just won't be told. That's arguably OK as long as it's clear all along (including in any pre-event advertising) that it's a "no prisoners" sort of ride. If it's an open or no-drop, that just stinks and that leader shouldn't get another go.


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## screenman (13 May 2020)

mjr said:


> Some people just won't be told. That's arguably OK as long as it's clear all along (including in any pre-event advertising) that it's a "no prisoners" sort of ride. If it's an open or no-drop, that just stinks and that leader shouldn't get another go.



I agree, luckily I have never been on a no drop ride where somebody has been dropped, I have had to have words with half wheeler's and the like at times though, fortunately it is not something I have problems with.


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## davidphilips (13 May 2020)

Does no one just say change or steady?


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## Ridgeway (14 May 2020)

So there wasn't too much risk of C19 restrictions being flouted (we're allowed to ride in groups of up to 5) as only 4 people turned up this evening, but that was probably because the weather was crap or "temps anglais typique" as the 3 guys said and kept reminding me.....

Lots to learn about riding in a group so it was great that we were only 4, enough going on even in such a small group for a novice like me, especially as the wind was up to 25kmh. 

Re the "could i keep up" flats = easy and what a pleasure to draft a few riders, super easy riding with low HR even at decent speeds (about 40kmh across the flats) downhill was where i needed to take most care, probably as i was the heaviest gravity took over and i was always on the brakes but all OK. Uphill, well that's another story and as i figured where i'd struggle, just hadn't realised by how much. One of the last climbs was a good example, 1km long with an average of 6% (max 8%) and i just hung on, me at almost 95% of HR max and the 2 guys in front chatting away about the weather, 18kmh all the way up and i think that highlights my fitness gap and gave me a real wake up. It was a pretty short ride due to the weather, only 45km but there was 750m of climbing in that, these guys seemed to search it out and at least introduced me to some nice little routes.

Looking forward to the next sortie in hopefully better weather and also improving my hill climbing speeds, something i must work on.


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## Sharky (20 May 2020)

Sounds like you've found a good club to ride with.

I've been studying some of the pro's and the secret to hill climbing is to throw your feeding bottle into the crowds of spectators cheering you on.


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## ColinJ (20 May 2020)

Sharky said:


> I've been studying some of the pro's and the secret to hill climbing is to throw your feeding bottle into the crowds of spectators cheering you on.


And hope that they give you a push while the TV cameras and race officials are not watching...


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## Globalti (20 May 2020)

On the TOB I once watched a young Basque rider getting the stickiest of sticky bottles from his team car for several hundred yards up Waddington Fell.


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## Ridgeway (20 May 2020)

Sharky said:


> Sounds like you've found a good club to ride with.
> 
> I've been studying some of the pro's and the secret to hill climbing is to throw your feeding bottle into the crowds of spectators cheering you on.



 usually so my children can fight over them and the looser sulk in the car on the way back home didn't ask how i know but when Luke Rowe threw out his bottle at the bottom of Planche des Belle Filles last on last years TDF No4 daughter managed to grab it before the other 2 did since then the others have managed to get other bottles but not from an Ineos rider


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## Ridgeway (29 May 2020)

Second club ride last night and a bit of an eye opener  

8 of us turned up but more were still arriving in dribs and drabs. Not knowing the routine i took off with the first group that went out. Noticed after a few KM's that the speed was high, people were slimmer than a slim things you see in reptile zoos, oh and 2 of the riders i recognised as riding in U23 Pro teams Nice ride though and some super interesting routes once again, but boy do they seek out the hilly stuff they were kind enough to wait for me at the top of the main climb (ave 9% for 2km) at least i gave them all a 1 min toilet break and snack stop which created some decent banter.

Starting to learn the hand signals a bit better and this group was very animated with them so that was a good learning. considering i was over double the age of all of the riders and probably 20% heavier (not to mention 100% less fit) i kept with them, although i think it was more that they stayed back with me. 

As a comparison i have a segment that finishes at my front gate, 850m at ave 6% and my PR is 2mins 52secs (that's an ave of 284 Strava watts with 17.7kmh) one of the "lads" last night (he's 23yrs old) manages the same segment in 1min 55 seconds at 26.7kmh ave, the youth today, where do they get that energy from...


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## MntnMan62 (8 Jun 2020)

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. As I get in better shape and build up my cycling strength, I'd like to ride with some other people. I've never done it and I'd like to learn how to ride in a group as I imagine there is a protocol and method to doing so. But I've also found that with my average speed of about 11 mph riding solo, I'm probably not up to keeping up with a group riding at 15 mph. So, I'm going to keep working on my solo rides and try and increase my average mph for each ride. That may not happen until the end of the summer but I'm ok with that. As long as it happens.


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## screenman (8 Jun 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I've been thinking about doing the same thing. As I get in better shape and build up my cycling strength, I'd like to ride with some other people. I've never done it and I'd like to learn how to ride in a group as I imagine there is a protocol and method to doing so. But I've also found that with my average speed of about 11 mph riding solo, I'm probably not up to keeping up with a group riding at 15 mph. So, I'm going to keep working on my solo rides and try and increase my average mph for each ride. That may not happen until the end of the summer but I'm ok with that. As long as it happens.



Join the club and you will meet many people that cycle at your speed or even less, a cycle club is normally made up of people with many varying abilities.


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## ianrauk (8 Jun 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I've been thinking about doing the same thing. As I get in better shape and build up my cycling strength, I'd like to ride with some other people. I've never done it and I'd like to learn how to ride in a group as I imagine there is a protocol and method to doing so. But I've also found that with my average speed of about 11 mph riding solo, I'm probably not up to keeping up with a group riding at 15 mph. So, I'm going to keep working on my solo rides and try and increase my average mph for each ride. That may not happen until the end of the summer but I'm ok with that. As long as it happens.


As what @screenman says. Clubs have different groups for different abilities. You join the group that fits your speed and work your way up.


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## HLaB (8 Jun 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I've been thinking about doing the same thing. As I get in better shape and build up my cycling strength, I'd like to ride with some other people. I've never done it and I'd like to learn how to ride in a group as I imagine there is a protocol and method to doing so. But I've also found that with my average speed of about 11 mph riding solo, I'm probably not up to keeping up with a group riding at 15 mph. So, I'm going to keep working on my solo rides and try and increase my average mph for each ride. That may not happen until the end of the summer but I'm ok with that. As long as it happens.


I held off joining a club until my solo average was 15mph. I really shouldn't have, a slower solo average speed is easily boosted by the drafting and motivation of being in a group etc. You should go along and not wait


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jun 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> I've been thinking about doing the same thing. As I get in better shape and build up my cycling strength, I'd like to ride with some other people. I've never done it and I'd like to learn how to ride in a group as I imagine there is a protocol and method to doing so. But I've also found that with my average speed of about 11 mph riding solo, I'm probably not up to keeping up with a group riding at 15 mph. So, I'm going to keep working on my solo rides and try and increase my average mph for each ride. That may not happen until the end of the summer but I'm ok with that. As long as it happens.


Check out what clubs exist and what they offer. 

A few years ago I was a member of a club who ran a load of rides ranging from serious guys with race licenses, all the way down to slower riders like me. You started with a slow group and found your level. I can't believe that I got lucky and joined the only club in existence like that. I assume there are others.

I'd guess that only a minority of cyclists can hold 15mph over any significant distance (I certainly can't) so any club that welcomes beginners should be fine.


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## MntnMan62 (8 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Check out what clubs exist and what they offer.
> 
> A few years ago I was a member of a club who ran a load of rides ranging from serious guys with race licenses, all the way down to slower riders like me. You started with a slow group and found your level. I can't believe that I got lucky and joined the only club in existence like that. I assume there are others.
> 
> I'd guess that only a minority of cyclists can hold 15mph over any significant distance (I certainly can't) so any club that welcomes beginners should be fine.



Good point. I will start looking for some groups near me that are at my level. I'm feeling pretty good today because yesterday I was able to do 30 miles at about 11.3 mph. I stop along the way but I think that calculated mph only reflects my moving time and does not take into account the six rests I take during those 30 miles. Still, there has to be some riders at my level. I also realize that I have a way to go to achieve the level of fitness I'm looking for. I want to drop 30 to 35 pounds. I've really only been riding consistently now for about 4 weeks. Which means I can only get faster the more I ride. I'm also watching what I eat and trying to get some workouts in to strengthen my core such as pushups, bicycle crunches and planks.


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## matticus (8 Jun 2020)

I know nothing about US bike clubs, but in the UK 11mph is too slow for the majority of "sporting" clubs. A minority run specific beginners rides, but that's not really the norm.
We do have a lot of "touring" oriented clubs (i.e. CTC of old) - the term is archaic, but there you go! - who welcome slower riders. Plenty of keen friendly cyclists in that category 

But NJ culture might be totally different, I don't know!


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## Ridgeway (9 Jun 2020)

My issue here is not the flat speed but really the uphill stuff, actually the descents are also a bit challenging but not because of the speeds but only due to my lack of experience of riding within a group but that does seem to be improving (3rd group ride done now). But the climbs are the real challenge for me and it what is spurring me on to improve. So far the groups have been small although probably the recent poor weather and C19 have had an effect on that. I kinda like the kick in the ass being the slowest is giving me although i hope i'm not making the rides tediously slow for the other guys..... i assume they'll let me know

It's really a pleasure to ride with a few other guys and learn from them, some in my group are extremely experienced and seem happy to share advice, i can only learn from them (usually that dragging my fat ass up a hill takes longer than their skinny ass...)

Next ride i may go with the juniors


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## HLaB (9 Jun 2020)

MntnMan62 said:


> Good point. I will start looking for some groups near me that are at my level. I'm feeling pretty good today because yesterday I was able to do 30 miles at about 11.3 mph. I stop along the way but I think that calculated mph only reflects my moving time and does not take into account the six rests I take during those 30 miles. Still, there has to be some riders at my level. I also realize that I have a way to go to achieve the level of fitness I'm looking for. I want to drop 30 to 35 pounds. I've really only been riding consistently now for about 4 weeks. Which means I can only get faster the more I ride. I'm also watching what I eat and trying to get some workouts in to strengthen my core such as pushups, bicycle crunches and planks.


I'm also unsure of the American culture also but there's lots of groups which I've been in (rather than clubs) where 11.3mph would be more than ample  The groups tend to advertise in bike shops and may have web/farcebook pages.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Jun 2020)

matticus said:


> I know nothing about US bike clubs, but in the UK 11mph is too slow for the majority of "sporting" clubs. A minority run specific beginners rides, but that's not really the norm.
> We do have a lot of "touring" oriented clubs (i.e. CTC of old) - the term is archaic, but there you go! - who welcome slower riders. Plenty of keen friendly cyclists in that category
> 
> But NJ culture might be totally different, I don't know!


I wonder if I did actually strike gold with the club I used to ride with (Bigfoot CC in Bromley) as they are a "sporting" club at the fast end but also cater for kids, beginners and slow riders like myself. Maybe it's actually a rare example. 

The fact that I ultimately left is proof that they don't cater for absolutely _everyone_. Or just proof that I'm an awkward so & so. My problem was that the few people in the club interested in audax distances were way too fast for me to ride with. So I found that on weekends when I was free to go cycling I'd be off doing my own long (slow) solo rides and ended up riding with the club only once per year (the annual London-Brighton-London fun day out).


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## Milkfloat (9 Jun 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> Next ride i may go with the juniors



I would be careful with the juniors, in my experience they are awesome on the hills, the way to put them in their place is on the flat into a nice headwind.


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## matticus (9 Jun 2020)

@Dogtrousers
it would be lovely if there *were* more, but I'd say they are the exception.
(especially with the modern trend to form "clubs" via social media, that are really just "mates gangs" for grown-ups on bikes :P )

You are not alone in your audax problem - there are a lot of us full-value types that find the same thing! At least you're not alone on the internet 
(back-in-the-day, CTC use to run the National 400k! But splintering and niche groups has become more the norm since ... )


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## Ridgeway (9 Jun 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I would be careful with the juniors, in my experience they are awesome on the hills, the way to put them in their place is on the flat into a nice headwind.



But my lardy arse helps on the descents

Good point on the flats, i like that


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## ColinJ (9 Jun 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I would be careful with the juniors, in my experience they are awesome on the hills, the way to put them in their place is on the flat into a nice headwind.


Ha ha - _YES_!


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> Next ride i may go with the juniors



That's _not_ necessarily easier: my son's team of youth A / junior racers tend to be quicker than the adults.

On Mondays I take part in a group Zwift ride with the Yorkshire youth; I'm getting regularly beasted by a 9 year-old


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## Ridgeway (22 Jun 2020)

Weird but last weeks ride only oldies turned up, me included in that comment. It must be linked to the weather some how but last ride the age range was approx 38-60yrs old, and most of us 45-50ish. Thought it may be easier going but........ apparently the older guys have something to prove and boy they did a good job of it. Was another fun ride though and i learnt again some new little back routes and connecting lanes, super nice riding with 1000m of climbing over 65km and a meagre 29kmh

Signed up for the club now so i'm technically doomed hope to get my jersey this week, i think it looks pretty OK.


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## JRTemple (29 Jun 2020)

Are you allowed to join with an electric bike or is that a no no


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## cyberknight (29 Jun 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Are you allowed to join with an electric bike or is that a no no


seriously even if you did based on some club rides i have been on apart from the hills you would be dropped unless it was an illegaly moddded bike as they cut out at 15.5 mph, i know the mtb section of my cc guys do turn up on e mtb for the off roading.
TBH i cant see a problem myself dependant on the pace of the group and the drop policy of the ride although some strava kom monkeys might get their noses out of joint.


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## Ridgeway (29 Jun 2020)

cyberknight said:


> seriously even if you did based on some club rides i have been on apart from the hills you would be dropped unless it was an illegaly moddded bike as they cut out at 15.5 mph, i know the mtb section of my cc guys do turn up on e mtb for the off roading.
> TBH i cant see a problem myself dependant on the pace of the group and the drop policy of the ride although some strava kom monkeys might get their noses out of joint.



Dead right, flat = 35-40kmh here and unless it's a pedelec (is that the right term?) then after 25kmh you're just lugging a load of extra weight around. Yep the uphill would be the place, anything above 5% and i reckon and you'd be at weight break even point so to speak. Keep in mind though that every rider in the group will make a point of ensuring to beat any leccy bike

Last week on the way to our club ride meet point i zipped past an e-bike at the foot of a hill (1km ave 5%) about half way up he zoomed past me smiling i hadn't noticed his registration plate that was stealthily tucked around his seat post, registration plate here = 45kmh no way way i going to follow that


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## G3CWI (3 Jul 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Are you allowed to join with an electric bike or is that a no no




there are some ebike riders in our club. However as others have indicated, you may find an ebike to be a disadvantage. I use mine when riding with the slowest group. Ebikes are welcome on all our rides apart from the mountain bike rides. They have fragile egos I think


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Jul 2020)

Amateur tip - on group rides a little quicker than yourself, hang back a little at junctions etc and fall in towards the back.

Do this every junction, but roll through and take a turn (shorter)where the road rises but try to be near the front approaching climbs.

Or, try to be first/second wheel on the nearside which also has the same effect, both maximise your time in shelter


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## Ridgeway (3 Jul 2020)

I'm learning the group etiquette and some tips like the one above from TMHNET are really useful. I like how riders in front point out road obstacles so making those behind who maybe can't see them until the last minute are aware of what's coming up. 

I've started to take more and longer turns on the front, usually on the flats as i can power along pretty well on those and people seem to appreciate some taking the lead on those long open roads, on the climbs i'm still right at the back clinging on to my defibrillator really need to improve my climbing speeds !!! i suppose that's mainly a lack of stamina or just overall fitness ? Yesterdays example was a 2.5km climb of average 5% that i could only manage an ave speed of just below 16kmh and i'd need to be around 20kmh to keep up with the group. Time to loose some more timber and work out how to get fitter


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## Sharky (3 Jul 2020)

Another tip. When it is windy and you are riding two a breast, take the position on the leeward side.


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## Ridgeway (27 Aug 2020)

Missed a few weeks through the Summer vacation period with either being away ourselves on vacation or travelling with work but managed to get out tonight with the boys. As long as the climbing isn't too long and steep say above 5% for more than 2km then i can more or less hold my own now and keep up, it's taken me all Summer to get fit enough to do so oh and loosing 10kgs has helped This evening i was more on the front than ever and we had a really nice 75km loop with about 800m in there, averaged around 30kmh which is now within my range.

Not sure how long the guys here will ride until, i get the distinct impression that anything less than 20º is considered as needing full Winter kit but hopefully we'll get a few more weeks in yet.

This evenings team:







One things for sure that this weekly club ride has certainly helped me improve my fitness !


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## straas (28 Aug 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Amateur tip - on group rides a little quicker than yourself, hang back a little at junctions etc and fall in towards the back.
> 
> Do this every junction, but roll through and take a turn (shorter)where the road rises but try to be near the front approaching climbs.
> 
> Or, try to be first/second wheel on the nearside which also has the same effect, both maximise your time in shelter




Depending on the size of the group, being at the back can be a real disadvantage - by the time you're through the corner, the riders at the front are back up to speed and you're having to put an effort in to keep up. Can really tire you out after a while.

Sometimes I sit at the back if I want to throw in some sprint intervals, for this reason.


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## kingrollo (31 Aug 2020)

One of my biggest regrets is not joining a club earlier.

Club I am in does touring rides - and training rides - the slowest training ride has a no drop policy. Which works great for me !!!


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## Ripple (31 Aug 2020)

I really would like to join a cycling club but ...

Club No.1 - first ride with them and I've been left immediately. I can't do 40 kph across the town. Club states "we have a no drop policy".
Club No.2 - got personal invitation from my manager, a founder of the club. First ride, 36 - 45 kph across the town and speeds well over 50 kph outside town. One member told me "I think there's no space for you with us". Well ok, I apologized them nicely after 25k and went home on my own.

Both clubs were informed about my age, fitness level etc and I was told everything is ok. Both clubs have got "we don't drop slow riders" BS. I wondered why did they let me in if they knew immediatelly that my level is waaaay below theirs.

It looks like all clubs in my area are for serious racers only.

So oh well, things happen. I keep cycling on my own.


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## cyberknight (31 Aug 2020)

Ripple said:


> I really would like to join a cycling club but ...
> 
> Club No.1 - first ride with them and I've been left immediately. I can't do 40 kph across the town. Club states "we have a no drop policy".
> Club No.2 - got personal invitation from my manager, a founder of the club. First ride, 36 - 45 kph across the town and speeds well over 50 kph outside town. One member told me "I think there's no space for you with us". Well ok, I apologized them nicely after 25k and went home on my own.
> ...


My club started off via facebook looking for people interested in riding in the area but there needs were not catered for by existing clubs,
They started out with a few riders and now after 2 years they now run 3 groups on a saturday and one on a sunday catering for varying levels of fitness, the main aim has always been to have fun and no drop no matter what level.Sunday we were even prepared to alter the route of our planned century to accommodate riders who were struggling .


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## Noodle Legs (31 Aug 2020)

It may pay you to contact the club chairperson/secretary directly and explain your circumstances. It may well be that the speeds quoted are a generalisation based on previous experience but you may find that they actually just ride to the slowest rider’s pace, as our club often does, within reason.


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## Ridgeway (31 Aug 2020)

I kinda knew or at least suspected that i'd be off the pace at my local club, seeing the guys pass by my house at decent speeds already gave me that impression. Having said that i did make a bit of progress on my fitness before joining, nether the less i was still shocked at the difference in pace although most of the time the guys waited at the top for me. Roll on 4 months and i can now keep up, take my fair share on the front and we average about 30kmh over a 60-75km ride with usually 800-1000m of climbing in there. Still no way i can keep up with the young guys but i give it my best shot


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## straas (1 Sep 2020)

Ripple said:


> I really would like to join a cycling club but ...
> 
> Club No.1 - first ride with them and I've been left immediately. I can't do 40 kph across the town. Club states "we have a no drop policy".
> Club No.2 - got personal invitation from my manager, a founder of the club. First ride, 36 - 45 kph across the town and speeds well over 50 kph outside town. One member told me "I think there's no space for you with us". Well ok, I apologized them nicely after 25k and went home on my own.
> ...



Have you accidentally joined some professional clubs? 50km/h is not a normal club speed


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## Ripple (1 Sep 2020)

straas said:


> Have you accidentally joined some professional clubs? 50km/h is not a normal club speed


Nope. 

The first club I mentioned do take part in races but they also do "moderate pace rides" as per their website.
Another one was such a new club that members even didn't race in any of races.

I do agree my gender is a problem (I'm a woman) but they knew that (first club was contacted by email and everything was explained) and still why on Earth they let me in?


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## matticus (1 Sep 2020)

Official policy: "_no-drop, friendly inclusive rides!_"
Actuality: riders do what they please. No-one is brave enough to tell grown men what to do. It's easier to just let the weak fall away, where you can't see them.

This is a very common scenario, sadly.

(but BTW, 50kph/30mph on the flat is NOT a common amateur training group pace. Not at ALL!)


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## DCLane (1 Sep 2020)

@Ripple - it seems unusual. Is this all there is where you are?

There's one group that runs around 50 km/h locally, but they're not an official club and advertise that if you can't keep up it's your problem. The others are generally much more inclusive.


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## Ripple (1 Sep 2020)

I've done a few rides with another CC back in 2011 and this club was really nice and I was able to stay in group with no problem at all. Alas I moved into another town and they're few hours away from me now. 

I also contacted (email, FB, website contact forms) few other local(ish) CCs over the years but no answer from them whatsoever.

I've got an impression that every official CC are for racers only. "We road race, we TT, we track race" etc. If you want just a leisure ride - ah who bothers about that crap.


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## straas (1 Sep 2020)

I'm still really thrown by this 50km/h ride - I think most semi serious chain gangs will be around the 40kmh mark?

I'd put myself down as a pretty strong rider, but think I'd struggle to not get dropped on a 50kmh ride!


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## Ripple (1 Sep 2020)

Well if somebody can do 124k ride with average speed of 34.1 kph as per almighty Strava ...


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## iluvmybike (1 Sep 2020)

This is a perennial problem! Even those groups which start of with good intentions as a more 'social' type of ride I have found soon get competitive and the speed then goes up - so the 'weaker' members of the group are always getting dropped - whilst the group does 'wait' it isn't much fun to always be the one waited for and then you don't feel like going along as you are holding the group up. So weaker riders fall by the wayside and the group gets stronger/faster and so it goes on! I'm female too and in my 60s - I'm not a slouch and can ride all day just not at fast speeds


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Sep 2020)

Unpopular opinion: if you turn up at a club run that's advertised as 16mph avg and it's maintaining 15.4 or 16.1 whilst you're getting dropped - the onus is you to get fitter. Likewise if you turn up at a ride that's aimed at beginners and posted as 13-15mph avg while you're capable of 21 - the onus is on you to ride to the group.

Seen it a fair bit over the years where A Rider hasn't rode his or her bike in months, turns up out of the blue to a run that's advertised well above their capability and all it does is ruin everyone elses ride, although few say it openly.


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## matticus (1 Sep 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Unpopular opinion:



Is it? Evidence please!


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## Ripple (1 Sep 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Unpopular opinion: if you turn up at a club run that's advertised as 16mph avg and it's maintaining 15.4 or 16.1 whilst you're getting dropped - the onus is you to get fitter. Likewise if you turn up at a ride that's aimed at beginners and posted as 13-15mph avg while you're capable of 21 - the onus is on you to ride to the group.



That's why I always contact somebody prior to the ride. I state my age, gender, level of fitness and other relevant info and I ask if it's ok to join a ride. Answer is always "yes sure, no problem". I arrive at the start point only to find group of clones of TdF riders. Well ...

Still the fondest memories about Redhill CC. Done few rides with them. Nice and warm welcome, loads of cyclists of various ages, about 10 women, nobody was left and not the light speed. Alas I don't live there anymore. 

I contacted one CC via FB and website 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for an answer.  and yes, their FB is updated almost daily.


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## itboffin (1 Sep 2020)

As a small local club chairman I can tell you it’s not easy to keep it under control at times, certain individuals are either way too fast and can’t help pushing the pace and others way too unfit for even social rides, we’re not long officially formed perhaps 5 years and small circa 20 on avg. but we’ve managed a happy medium and now make it very clear the route, distance ascent conditions and confirmed riders, those factors help no end.

we’re known as a fast club but not a racing club, the handful of members that ride +100 miles and +21 mph avg ended up splitting and forming a new group, we’re now left with those happy to ride at 20 mph and +100 miles for a ride but the avg overall will be anywhere from 16-19 mph due to hilly terrain, I think this is a big factor that gets forgotten not many can carry on riding uphill at full on club pace or want too, then there are a lot that also can climb but not smash it on the flat such as me.

Its all about disciplined club management imo


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## itboffin (1 Sep 2020)

Ripple said:


> That's why I always contact somebody prior to the ride. I state my age, gender, level of fitness and other relevant info and I ask if it's ok to join a ride. Answer is always "yes sure, no problem". I arrive at the start point only to find group of clones of TdF riders. Well ...
> 
> Still the fondest memories about Redhill CC. Done few rides with them. Nice and warm welcome, loads of cyclists of various ages, about 10 women, nobody was left and not the light speed. Alas I don't live there anymore.
> 
> I contacted one CC via FB and website 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for an answer.  and yes, their FB is updated almost daily.



erm on that subject I / we are also guilty of not following up, this years we’ve had 21 email enquires which didn’t go answered for a few months, difficult times for everyone


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Sep 2020)

itboffin said:


> As a small local club chairman I can tell you it’s not easy to keep it under control at times, certain individuals are either way too fast and can’t help pushing the pace and others way too unfit for even social rides, we’re not long officially formed perhaps 5 years and small circa 20 on avg. but we’ve managed a happy medium and now make it very clear the route, distance ascent conditions and confirmed riders, those factors help no end.
> 
> we’re known as a fast club but not a racing club, the handful of members that ride +100 miles and +21 mph avg ended up splitting and forming a new group, we’re now left with those happy to ride at 20 mph and +100 miles for a ride but the avg overall will be anywhere from 16-19 mph due to hilly terrain, I think this is a big factor that gets forgotten not many can carry on riding uphill at full on club pace or want too, then there are a lot that also can climb but not smash it on the flat such as me.
> 
> Its all about disciplined club management imo


My own club is pretty terrible at managing riders, doesn't seem to matter how many meetings or AGMs we have. The avg speeds of the 3 sunday rides are set in stone but the B run has gained at least 1.5mph and the C run has lost 3 - 4 creating a massive gulf if your interest is working to the faster runs.


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## cyberknight (1 Sep 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> My own club is pretty terrible at managing riders, doesn't seem to matter how many meetings or AGMs we have. The avg speeds of the 3 sunday rides are set in stone but the B run has gained at least 1.5mph and the C run has lost 3 - 4 creating a massive gulf if your interest is working to the faster runs.


thats why i swapeed to my current club , the gap between my old medium and fast groups was about 4 mph avg so i was either dawdling or getting spat out the back and left for dead as the old fast group was a"your own you own after the cake stop "ride that used to chain gang it back .


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## itboffin (1 Sep 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> My own club is pretty terrible at managing riders, doesn't seem to matter how many meetings or AGMs we have. The avg speeds of the 3 sunday rides are set in stone but the B run has gained at least 1.5mph and the C run has lost 3 - 4 creating a massive gulf if your interest is working to the faster runs.



oh trust me it’s been hard work I was secretary for 2 years and now chairman in my 3rd and every ride I have to police, we’re getting there all be it super slowly I sometimes feel like the club mother


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## DCLane (2 Sep 2020)

Ripple said:


> I contacted one CC via FB and website 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for an answer.  and yes, their FB is updated almost daily.



I'd either stick a message on their FB page or turn up. Often the contact person's moved on and you'll get a response from a club's page directly quicker.


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## steverob (2 Sep 2020)

cyberknight said:


> thats why i swapeed to my current club , the gap between my old medium and fast groups was about 4 mph avg so i was either dawdling or getting spat out the back and left for dead as the old fast group was a"your own you own after the cake stop "ride that used to chain gang it back .


Yeah, this is the problem that I've got with the club nearest me - I seem to be in that gap between their fast group and their slow group and that gap has grown even bigger over the years, but I guess they don't have enough members or interest to create a third middle group (it's not a big club admittedly).

Also the slower group does tend to do rides of a lot shorter distance than I'd like, plus has a coffee stop halfway - as someone who typically rides solo, I prefer to just stay in the saddle, get the miles done, then get a drink afterwards. Getting back going after 30-40 minutes off the bike is really difficult for me!


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## matticus (2 Sep 2020)

Ride a little slower.
Bring a heavier bike/luggage.
Kill yourself for an hour before the meet-up.
Do reps on the One Big Hill of the day.

Think about the good of the group - don't expect the perfect guided ride laid on for you every week. This is how CLUBs work.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Sep 2020)

steverob said:


> Yeah, this is the problem that I've got with the club nearest me - I seem to be in that gap between their fast group and their slow group and that gap has grown even bigger over the years, but I guess they don't have enough members or interest to create a third middle group (it's not a big club admittedly).
> 
> Also the slower group does tend to do rides of a lot shorter distance than I'd like, plus has a coffee stop halfway - as someone who typically rides solo, I prefer to just stay in the saddle, get the miles done, then get a drink afterwards. Getting back going after 30-40 minutes off the bike is really difficult for me!


I would argue that clubs continually expanding to more runs just makes the problem bigger. When I joined in 2012 we had 2 sunday runs denoted specifically as a club ride(for all) but still averaging between 17 and 18 over hillier routes and a faster/racer kinda run. You certainly had to have a decent level of fitness from the off

Now there's 4, and less riders, and fewer capable leaders.


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## cyberknight (2 Sep 2020)

you heathens coffee break after 35 ish miles is all part of the fun


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## itboffin (2 Sep 2020)

cyberknight said:


> you heathens coffee break after 35 ish miles is all part of the fun



I introduced regular coffee stops on every ride which was very welcome, prior to that it was all out smash fest out and back


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## cougie uk (2 Sep 2020)

You do need ride captains to bollock people who push the pace. If you're flying then you can always spend more time on the front and tow the ride. 
Same as if you're suffering. Skip a pull or two and enjoy the rest.


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## matticus (3 Sep 2020)

cougie uk said:


> You do need ride captains to bollock people who push the pace.


That seems to be frowned on now - very out-of-date.


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## Pale Rider (3 Sep 2020)

It's impolite not to reply to an inquiry, but it does seem common.

The leader of my group told me he got fed up with getting involved in long online discussions about the ins and outs of everything with people who never turned up to a ride.

I like to think we are welcoming to riders who do pitch up, so my advice is do that - turn up, ready to ride.

It can be daunting, but the worst that can happen is you peel off the back of the ride and never see any of the participants again.


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## gbs (13 Dec 2020)

I have trialled with 6/7 clubs. All adopt a convoy approach. BUT I do not want to hold others back. On two occasions I insisted that the faster riders proceed.

My experience, solely in the middle to slow end of the spectrum, is that clubs are accommodating and will wish to take care of newbies. I suggest you take an experimental approach; turn up, explain your concern and benefit from the drafting offered by the group. If you cannot hack it, by agreement, drop off. 

The extent to which you preplan for this depends on the difficulty of the terrain but you should be self sufficient with water and energy bars, knowledge of local trains/taxi services/road network. Good luck.


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## kingrollo (15 Dec 2020)

This threads a year old ! - almost !

I also think you need to think about when you go to such rides. On a cold Jan morning, you're going (or more likely) to get your grizzled roadies - come sunny July you're more likely to get a few beginners.

I seem to have been lucky in that 3 clubs I have been in - they have always waited for slower riders. Current club has 4 levels of training rides - the top 3 don't wait if you get off the pace - but the bottom one always waits. 

Over the course of the summer the rides do speed up, and people are reluctant to move up a group instead try and make the slower rides faster - however the ride leader or another experienced rider always stays with the slowest rider and/or tells the faster riders to back off.


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## straas (15 Dec 2020)

My issue in the winter isn't my fitness, but nervousness at riding in close proximity to people in poor conditions. Especially when there's a mix of brakes.


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## mjr (31 Dec 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Current club has 4 levels of training rides - the top 3 don't wait if you get off the pace - but the bottom one always waits.


4 training rides. How many freewheeling groups?


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## CXRAndy (18 Jan 2021)

I doubt I'll go out with my club again. The pace of a good few lads has jumped significantly. They do 60+ miles at over 20mph average. I could only do that 15-20 miles in a group ride. Plus my desire to be the fastest I can has waned over the last year or so.


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## shep (18 Jan 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I doubt I'll go out with my club again. The pace of a good few lads has jumped significantly. They do 60+ miles at over 20mph average. I could only do that 15-20 miles in a group ride. Plus my desire to be the fastest I can has waned over the last year or so.


That's pretty quick, I went out yesterday and did 33 mls average 17mph on my own and wasn't hanging about. Too fit for me.


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## Sharky (20 Jan 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I doubt I'll go out with my club again. The pace of a good few lads has jumped significantly. They do 60+ miles at over 20mph average. I could only do that 15-20 miles in a group ride. Plus my desire to be the fastest I can has waned over the last year or so.


I'm in a similar state. Was runs leader about 10 years ago, but due to life style changes, had to give up the Sunday morning commitment. Since then, there has been a huge influx of younger riders who are much fitter and faster then me. Now only do solo rides, but if I had the time I would try and organize some slower rides for the over 60's 70's.


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## HLaB (20 Jan 2021)

shep said:


> That's pretty quick, I went out yesterday and did 33 mls average 17mph on my own and wasn't hanging about. Too fit for me.


If you manage 17mph on more undulating roads in Wolverhampton, you'd easily manage 20mph+ in a group in the flatter Lincolnshire


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## cougie uk (20 Jan 2021)

straas said:


> My issue in the winter isn't my fitness, but nervousness at riding in close proximity to people in poor conditions. Especially when there's a mix of brakes.



I'm not sure the mix of brakes is an issue in the real world. The pro peleton has a mix and it's not a problem. 

My old cantilevers were pants compared to my comrades rim brakes but it never caused a problem. You don't do a huge amount of braking really ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2021)

straas said:


> My issue in the winter isn't my fitness, but nervousness at riding in close proximity to people in poor conditions. Especially when there's a mix of brakes.


Crashes happen regardless of brake type.


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## GoldenLamprey (20 Jan 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I doubt I'll go out with my club again. The pace of a good few lads has jumped significantly. They do 60+ miles at over 20mph average. I could only do that 15-20 miles in a group ride. Plus my desire to be the fastest I can has waned over the last year or so.


I know the feeling and am trying hard to get up to scratch to rejoin mine, as they were doing 70miles at 20+mph too, late last year. Furlough last spring, and good weather, gave too many of them the time to put some serious hours in. I was working from home, doing short local rides and simply losing long ride endurance.


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## ianrauk (21 Jan 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I doubt I'll go out with my club again. The pace of a good few lads has jumped significantly. They do 60+ miles at over 20mph average. I could only do that 15-20 miles in a group ride. Plus my desire to be the fastest I can has waned over the last year or so.




Surely they have different average speed groups in your club no?


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## matticus (21 Jan 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Surely they have different average speed groups in your club no?


Possibly not, because:
- club is too small, or
- they're really more of a loosely-organised chain-gang, not a "club" as I view the term.


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## Leedafeeder (21 Jan 2021)

Yes,they must surely have a beginner's / slower ride out? 
Not much of a club if it doesn't?


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## mjr (21 Jan 2021)

Sharky said:


> [...] but if I had the time I would try and organize some slower rides for the over 60's 70's.


Why the ageism?



Leedafeeder said:


> Yes,they must surely have a beginner's / slower ride out?


Why equate slower with beginners? Not a given in various ways, especially as there seems a general (but not universal) trend to slow as we age.


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## Sharky (21 Jan 2021)

mjr said:


> Why the ageism?


Joking really, but I'd need to attract the oldies to give myself a chance to keep up. However, we have an ex-pro in our club in his mid 70's who is still churning out 24 min 10's.


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## iluvmybike (26 Jan 2021)

I have found that for many clubs the 'slower' rides also equate to short ditances. There is definitely a need for slower rides but still covering say 30-60 miles


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## PaulSB (26 Jan 2021)

iluvmybike said:


> I have found that for many clubs the 'slower' rides also equate to short ditances. There is definitely a need for slower rides but still covering say 30-60 miles


This one is always interesting to me as a Club Sec. We have members who don't ride the Club Ride (50-60 miles) because it's too slow and therefore takes too long. Others who want it to be slower.

We ended up putting on a second ride for those who want a faster ride. It doesn't include a cafe stop.

I also know there are others who want to go still slower. It's a nightmare!!!


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Jan 2021)

We had that in our CTC group. The longer rides have faster averages required. Plenty could do the longer rides at the averages of the shorter rides. But it’s not offered. Not a time issue either as the long rides faff at more than one stop and take all day anyway.

Definitely a market for club rides of 50-60 miles at 12-13 mph.


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## cyberknight (26 Jan 2021)

PaulSB said:


> This one is always interesting to me as a Club Sec. We have members who don't ride the Club Ride (50-60 miles) because it's too slow and therefore takes too long. Others who want it to be slower.
> 
> We ended up putting on a second ride for those who want a faster ride. It doesn't include a cafe stop.
> 
> I also know there are others who want to go still slower. It's a nightmare!!!


We aim for different lengths of ride dependent on speed and ability 
the slowest group might be 35 miles with a cake stop ranging to around 55 miles with a stop, i was one of the ride leaders in the 18 AVG ride and used to plan on 50+ with a cake stop after 30 odd miles


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## gbb (30 Jan 2021)

A different approach maybe ?
I never joined a club at my fittest (18mph average over 50 miles) but sometimes got caught up in one and it certainly pulls you along, that really surprised me. But inevitably , if you choose the wrong group, you're going to get spat out.
So it occured to me, if ever I had joined a club, I'd have been happy to ride along, get spat out if I couldnt keep up...and accept it. Let the others do their thing, you do yours. You can still enjoy the remainder of the ride and gain from the work you put in while in the group.
Nobody ever said you have to start AND finish with the group.


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## GoldenLamprey (31 Jan 2021)

Basically, a chain gang...


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## matticus (31 Jan 2021)

GoldenLamprey said:


> Basically, a chain gang...


Yup.

(which as I think I said 10 pages ago, is a different thing to a club run - even though they can look the same!)


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## iluvmybike (31 Jan 2021)

[QUOTE="Ming the Merciless, post: 6289123, member: 17213"

Definitely a market for club rides of 50-60 miles at 12-13 mph.
[/QUOTE]
Have to agree with you there. I wouldn't expect any club to offer rides of that length at speeds under 10mph! It would be a very long day


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## matticus (31 Jan 2021)

iluvmybike said:


> It would be a very long day


Would you like us to tell you about Audax?


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## iluvmybike (31 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> Would you like us to tell you about Audax?


Thanks but no need - I have been an Audax member for well over 25 yrs so I know all about long days


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## matticus (31 Jan 2021)

iluvmybike said:


> Thanks but no need - I have been an Audax member for well over 25 yrs so I know all about long days


Still not seen sense yet then?


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## iluvmybike (31 Jan 2021)

matticus said:


> Still not seen sense yet then?


Fraid not - it's too much fun


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Jan 2021)

iluvmybike said:


> Ming the Merciless said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely a market for club rides of 50-60 miles at 12-13 mph.
> ...



Indeed, no stamina those club guys, get past 5 hours and their bikes turn into a bunch of carrots 🥕 and a pumpkin 🎃


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## mjr (1 Feb 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Indeed, no stamina those club guys, get past 5 hours and their bikes turn into a bunch of carrots 🥕 and a pumpkin 🎃


No, that's just the club kit makes them look like that after 5 hours


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## Ridgeway (1 Apr 2021)

First club ride of the season today, nice weather and fortunately i've managed to keep some reasonable fitness during the winter so kept up much better than last year. Think it was an easy pace as it was first day back, even if a couple of the riders were clearly super experienced. 

Found on the climbs i could keep pace and even ride on the front at times, the main challenge were the sprint reps, wow they nearly killed me ! and impressive to see just how fast some of the riders can repeatedly achieve (after about 5-6 my legs died).

Looking forward to some more groups rides and some continued improvements


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## Ridgeway (21 May 2021)

Well the weather has been shocking since Easter so i've missed a few club rides and a couple of those i did were wet. Last evening was at least dry even if a bit cold. It's amazing how the group mix changes the riding style and speeds. Seems it doesn't take much for the decent riders to stretch their legs and for me to take the auto-bus on the longer climbs and whilst i've certainly improved i simply can't follow their ave 350w for 2km @ 8%, missing about 50w or carrying 10kgs too much for that

But guess what i wasn't the last up any of the climbs yesterday and not too far behind in the end.

Roll on some decent weather and summer evenings


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## LeetleGreyCells (21 May 2021)

I missed this thread so have just worked my way through all 12 pages. I definitely feel very lucky being a member of my club after reading about the experiences of some on here. 

I'm a member of a larger club with 200+ members which gives us the opportunity to offer quite a bit. Our youngest member is 4, I believe, and our oldest... no idea, but I know of one chap who is 70 who rides rings around the rest of us. 

There are various rides in the week and on the weekend. The Sunday rides are varied in terms of distance and speed with riding speed strictly adhered to (unless you're on the black ride, but then those riders are _fast _and race each other - that's up to them). Our Green / Social ride is for everyone - beginners and seasoned riders. Our ex-pro joined it the other week when I was leading and was happily chatting away and riding at the same pace as everyone else - his choice to join the green ride, he could have joined any of the others, he knew what to expect and he was happy. The week before I was also leading and we had a new rider who seriously struggled, but we got them round - we were half an hour later than expected and no one cared. The rider completed the ride with a big smile of their face - mission accomplished! I've participated in green rides and not lead, and it works exactly the same - riding at the pace of the slowest rider. As I mentioned, the green rides are for any rider and they are attended by everyone - sometimes riders fancy a different pace, simply want to chat or enjoy the scenery. Every week we have a mix of new riders and experienced - everyone knows the rules and, more importantly, respects them. It makes for very happy rides / club / club members. It would only take one person to try and spoil it, but we have plenty of members who not afraid to tell them what to do - again, probably an advantage of being a larger club.

We also do family rides as part of our Go Ride section of the club. Kids and parents will come on traffic-free rides (we're really quite lucky where we are based being next to the Trans Pennine Trail and a number of other bridleways). We have so many at times that we've had to split into different groups based upon ability. 

Not all clubs are self-involved or dismissive. We tell people we are inclusive because we mean it, and not just as a box ticking exercise. 

Personally, I couldn't sleep at night thinking I'd a) put someone off cycling by my actions; b) abandoned a rider; c) been dismissive of someone. I'm just not wired that way.


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## nickyboy (27 May 2021)

Ridgeway said:


> Well the weather has been shocking since Easter so i've missed a few club rides and a couple of those i did were wet. Last evening was at least dry even if a bit cold. It's amazing how the group mix changes the riding style and speeds. Seems it doesn't take much for the decent riders to stretch their legs and for me to take the auto-bus on the longer climbs and whilst i've certainly improved i simply can't follow their ave 350w for 2km @ 8%, missing about 50w or carrying 10kgs too much for that
> 
> But guess what i wasn't the last up any of the climbs yesterday and not too far behind in the end.
> 
> Roll on some decent weather and summer evenings


350W for about 6 minutes is pretty serious stuff. There are very few riders around here (I also live in a very hilly area) who could do that


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## Ridgeway (27 May 2021)

nickyboy said:


> 350W for about 6 minutes is pretty serious stuff. There are very few riders around here (I also live in a very hilly area) who could do that



That's most of the group that i ride with each week, most are pretty serious guys and the standard here seems quite high, +4.5 w/kg isn't uncommon with the group. 

Still it gives me an incentive to chase


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## Ridgeway (27 May 2021)

nickyboy said:


> 350W for about 6 minutes is pretty serious stuff. There are very few riders around here (I also live in a very hilly area) who could do that



PS just noticed where you live, The Snake and Woodhead used to be my regular rides when i was a teenager living down the road from you. Definitely not a flat area where you are


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## kingrollo (15 Jun 2021)

Just put a post on the FB page asking if anyone would like to accompany you for xxxxx miles @ xxxx pace.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

kingrollo said:


> Just put a post on the FB page asking if anyone would like to accompany you for xxxxx miles @ xxxx pace.



I did that on our club FB page last week as I was clearly not fit enough for the general group ride.

Some people insisted on coming with me and said they wanted an easier ride. They then rode the pants off me, including dropping me on a 4 mile section even though I was riding at 22+ mph at the time.

I was not happy and have told them, but apparently that was acceptable on a ride advertised as 12-14 mph average.

Some people are peanuts regardless of where you meet them.


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## ianrauk (23 Jun 2021)

Lee_M said:


> I did that on our club FB page last week as I was clearly not fit enough for the general group ride.
> 
> Some people insisted on coming with me and said they wanted an easier ride. They then rode the pants off me, including dropping me on a 4 mile section even though I was riding at 22+ mph at the time.
> 
> ...




Now that is just downright disrespectful behavior. What did they say when you told them?
I think the next time you put a shout out for a ride, anyone who continually steams ahead you take a different turning or route. Let them find their own way home.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Now that is just downright disrespectful behavior. What did they say when you told them?
> I think the next time you put a shout out for a ride, anyone who continually steams ahead you take a different turning or route. Let them find their own way home.



I actually complained to the committee as it's been an ongoing issue. The response was they couldn't always cater to the slowest.

I've basically decided to ride for myself and my buddies now, and made my feelings clear to a different committee member who agrees with me.

I'm going to be very obviously absent for a while, I think they'll get the point as I'm a bit of a loud person on the FB page anyway (and ex-committe member), eventually someone will ask where I am. 

I'm looking forward to that post


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## ianrauk (23 Jun 2021)

Lee_M said:


> The response was they couldn't always cater to the slowest.



This is complete nonsense of course. On group rides you ride to the slowest rider.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

ianrauk said:


> This is complete nonsense of course. On group rides you ride to the slowest rider.



You'd think so wouldn't you.


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## dave r (23 Jun 2021)

ianrauk said:


> This is complete nonsense of course. On group rides you ride to the slowest rider.



I'll correct that for you, "On group rides you're supposed to ride at the pace of the slowest rider"


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

ianrauk said:


> This is complete nonsense of course. On group rides you ride to the slowest rider.


Surely this depends on the size of the club? In my club we run as many as six official rides at the weekend plus Tuesday and Thursday evenings.

No one should be left behind on an official ride but members are expected to show respect for others by not attending a ride which will be too fast for them.

The scenario @Lee_M gives seems different to me. He put out a shout for people to join him on *his* social ride, as opposed to the club group ride, which would be at *his* pace. I think it's the individuals who are at fault and not the club.

It's extremely rude of the individuals but surely not the committee's responsibility?


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## dave r (23 Jun 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Surely this depends on the size of the club? In my club we run as many as six official rides at the weekend plus Tuesday and Thursday evenings.
> 
> No one should be left behind on an official ride but members are expected to show respect for others by not attending a ride which will be too fast for them.
> 
> ...



If someones made a mistake and ended up on the wrong ride, it can be easy done at the start of the ride, they should at least make sure the rider can get home, I've known my old club to get a rider to the cafe then show them to the slower group for the homeward ride.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Jun 2021)

I had the opposite experience with a club once. The group was having to wait for me at the top of hills and I was getting progressively more knackered. But at each regroup point - despite my protestations that I knew all the lanes in the area and could easily get home - they killed me with kindness and insisted that the group stay together and they would wait for me. So they dragged me all the way back. I guess I could have been a bit more assertive. Or maybe just played dead and hoped they would just go away and leave me.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (23 Jun 2021)

ianrauk said:


> This is complete nonsense of course. On group rides you ride to the slowest rider.


Not if the slowest rider is in an advertised group above their ability.


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

dave r said:


> If someones made a mistake and ended up on the wrong ride, it can be easy done at the start of the ride, they should at least make sure the rider can get home, I've known my old club to get a rider to the cafe then show them to the slower group for the homeward ride.


Absolutely and this is what would happen in my club. It does happen to newbies and they are looked after, it's long standing members we would expect to chose an appropriate ride for their individual ability.


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## DCLane (23 Jun 2021)

dave r said:


> I'll correct that for you, "On group rides you're supposed to ride at the pace of the slowest rider"



Unless it's agreed you won't. My son's taking part in a local club's 'fast' ride, whereby if you're dropped then speed up. If you can't cope, drop back to the ride following behind. But that's accepted by those taking part AND the ride following behind WILL ride at the pace of the slowest rider.


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## mjr (23 Jun 2021)

PaulSB said:


> It's extremely rude of the individuals but surely not the committee's responsibility?


Not sure. Do you think the committee would be OK with @Lee_M banning those individuals from any future similar rides posted?


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

DCLane said:


> Unless it's agreed you won't. My son's taking part in a local club's 'fast' ride, whereby if you're dropped then speed up. If you can't cope, drop back to the ride following behind. But that's accepted by those taking part AND the ride following behind WILL ride at the pace of the slowest rider.


This is what happens on our Tuesday Loop. Five or six groups set out at intervals, fastest group first. The idea is people jump on to any group they fancy, if they get spat out the back the next group picks them up. Last group out sweeps up and sticks with anyone who needs help.

It works very well on the 27 mile training loop. Not sure how well it would work on a ride?


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Surely this depends on the size of the club? In my club we run as many as six official rides at the weekend plus Tuesday and Thursday evenings.
> 
> No one should be left behind on an official ride but members are expected to show respect for others by not attending a ride which will be too fast for them.
> 
> ...



Not quite, it was an official club ride, But I said I would be doing it more slowly, and was then joined by others who'd signed up to the official ride who didn't go slow.

My point about the committee is that it's an on going problem and earlier in the week I'd had the same done to me on a ride lead by the chair person.


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

mjr said:


> Not sure. Do you think the committee would be OK with @Lee_M banning those individuals from any future similar rides posted?


I don't see it as a committee responsibility as it appears to be a member's social ride. We have these in my club and it's up to the individuals to look out for themselves.

My experience is there are people who go out together regularly and know the pace they plan to ride at. From time to time some faster riders turn up, push the pace and are generally left to ride off in to the distance........it makes the point.

Banning isn't something which would happen on any of our club rides. It's not the way to run a club.


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

Lee_M said:


> Not quite, it was an official club ride, But I said I would be doing it more slowly, and was then joined by others who'd signed up to the official ride who didn't go slow.
> 
> My point about the committee is that it's an on going problem and earlier in the week I'd had the same done to me on a ride lead by the chair person.


Apologies, I thought it was an unofficial, effectively "private," ride. You've every right to complain and if it's an ongoing problem your club committee should act. Quite how if the chair doesn't respect the ride is difficult.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

PaulSB said:


> I don't see it as a committee responsibility as it appears to be a member's social ride. We have these in my club and it's up to the individuals to look out for themselves.
> 
> My experience is there are people who go out together regularly and know the pace they plan to ride at. From time to time some faster riders turn up, push the pace and are generally left to ride off in to the distance........it makes the point.
> 
> Banning isn't something which would happen on any of our club rides. It's not the way to run a club.



To be clear.

Our club runs regular Sunday rides, a long/fast, a medium/hilly a slow, and an intermediate social.

I said I'd do the slow ride, but specifically said I couldnt keep up with those who had signed up for the slow ride (it was advertised as a 12h14 mph ride but I knew that was unlikely to hold), so I would be riding on my own at a slower pace.

I was then joined by others who also said they wanted to keep to the advertised pace, so in effect it was supposed to be the slower slow ride.

The overall pace ended up being 15mph not 12-14, but that was okay. What wasn't okay, was riding at 23mph on a 3-4 mile flat stretch, and being dropped by those who'd said they wanted a slower ride. And I don't mean just dropped off the back, but actually out of sight and way into the distance.

So in effect it was the slowest official club ride, or it was my own social ride, who knows.

Either way my ride was hijacked by others who didn't want to ride as they were supposed to.


PaulSB said:


> I don't see it as a committee responsibility as it appears to be a member's social ride. We have these in my club and it's up to the individuals to look out for themselves.
> 
> My experience is there are people who go out together regularly and know the pace they plan to ride at. From time to time some faster riders turn up, push the pace and are generally left to ride off in to the distance........it makes the point.
> 
> Banning isn't something which would happen on any of our club rides. It's not the way to run a club.



Nope it was part of the official Sunday club rides, but an added extra slow ride that ended up going at 23mph. 

The reason I got the committee, involved is its happening more and more, if it was a one off then I wouldn't have been bothered, or if I'd joined someone else's ride then that's my problem if I can't keep up.

anyway I'm not looking to ban anyone, I'm just not going to ride with the club again, and I know I'm not an isolated case, it's just sad the club seems to be getting taken over by racers and testosterone


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

Apologies for whatever happened with that last long winded reply!


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## PaulSB (23 Jun 2021)

@Lee_M - I agree with you. As I said above my initial understanding was you were going on a separate, effectively "private," ride. It's clear this was a club event and yes you should complain.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2021)

PaulSB said:


> @Lee_M - I agree with you. As I said above my initial understanding was you were going on a separate, effectively "private," ride. It's clear this was a club event and yes you should complain.



No worries, it's a difficult thing to manage anyway, one of the reasons I stopped being a ride leader (when I was fitter!) Was people would just break groups up and cause havoc. We lost a big chunk of the club a couple of years ago, for that reason, seems the club hasn't learnt


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## DCLane (23 Jun 2021)

Lee_M said:


> No worries, it's a difficult thing to manage anyway, one of the reasons I stopped being a ride leader (when I was fitter!) Was people would just break groups up and cause havoc. We lost a big chunk of the club a couple of years ago, for that reason, seems the club hasn't learnt



Either they haven't learnt or they won't take any notice. It does happen: people who run clubs are human and there's been a lot of riders who've had time away from work on furlough, who've built up fitness and speed which is pushing up the pace of club rides as a result. 

My guess, and it's a suggestion, is they're no longer for you. Maybe find one that suits your current needs better?

We've joined a second club to help my son develop further as my own club's 'fast' ride isn't fast enough for him. We'll ride with both, but he'll train with the second club and his team.


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## Ridgeway (23 Jun 2021)

Following on from this it seems i'm still learning "club riding" as i had an interesting experience a few weeks back. About half way through a typical weekday evening ride with about 8 riders in total we started down a very flat stretch of road that's about 3km long. All the lads and girls seemed to nod and they said lets have a sprint so off we go and me giving it full welly i was pretty chuffed i could keep up, even pass a few although the young lass in our group was way ahead of all of us (she rides for Andy Schlecks team), just as i could feel my legs again they were off once more, ok so i go again and can follow, then there's another sprint and so on. Turns out the routine was a 10 sprint rep, by 5 i was dead... but did manage all 10, if i'd of known it was 10 i would certainly have held back on the first 3 as i had burnt plenty of matches by then.....

Least i'll know for next time


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## Lee_M (24 Jun 2021)

Nothing wrong with that if everyone agrees.


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