# Hill Training



## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Right my flat road riding is coming ob but I always lose the pack on the hills. I drop right off and then cant get back. So how do I get better at hills. Whats the best training advise for it?


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## User6179 (14 Sep 2013)




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## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Thats helpful. Cheers


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## Sittingduck (14 Sep 2013)

Go and ride hills through the winter and reap your rewards come the spring.


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## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Is that all it is just hitting hills on the bike? Whats the best way yo get up them? Gearing?


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## User6179 (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Is that all it is just hitting hills on the bike? Whats the best way yo get up them? Gearing?


 
Increase power to weight ratio by increasing power and losing weight .


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## Hill Wimp (14 Sep 2013)

Hasn't there just been a thread on hill climbing ?

Put Hill climbing in the search box and search just the titles as there are several threads running on this.


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## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Thats not really helpful eddy. I know if I was lighter or the bike was it would be a bit easier. But I need advice on how to get up then ie low gears and spin or higher gears and struggle stand up or sit down?


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## Hill Wimp (14 Sep 2013)

Seriously use the search box there is loads of advice on this forum that is already there.


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## User6179 (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Thats not really helpful eddy. I know if I was lighter or the bike was it would be a bit easier. But I need advice on how to get up then ie low gears and spin or higher gears and struggle stand up or sit down?


 
For long climbs just spin up on an easy gear higher cadence but on short sharp climbs you may be able to power up then in a harder gear but its all down to the individual preference and what is sustainable power wise.


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## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Cheers eddy. What other activities are best to help build the legs to help?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Sep 2013)

Riding a bike


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## User6179 (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Cheers eddy. What other activities are best to help build the legs to help?


 
I do some hill walking and feel it helps with cycling , very similar muscles you use walking uphill and cycling .


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## nickg (14 Sep 2013)

Ive heard that doing squats help witb peoples cycling.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Ive heard that doing squats help witb peoples cycling.


Eh no. Ride your bike.


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## BSRU (14 Sep 2013)

There is plenty of advice on this forum regards how to improve hill climbing without going anywhere near a hill.


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## mattobrien (14 Sep 2013)

Find a good hill. Ride up. Repeat.

That said I appreciate finding a good hill in East Anglian is a bit of a challenge.

I like to spin, so try to do this up hills. Sometimes I get out of the saddle. Kind of down to the hill and how tired I am. 

I found general fitness helps for hills, so pushing yourself really hard on the flat will help on the hills.

Did a ride in Hampshire last weekend and I coped well on the hills, overtook quite a few people on the way up. Quite a pleasant surprise, as hills and suffolk are not familiar with each other.


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## User6179 (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Ive heard that doing squats help witb peoples cycling.


 
Cycling is mostly cardio so once you get your legs used to cycling I wouldn't bother with squats or weight training , the muscle you want to work is the big heart shaped one.


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## Dusty Bin (14 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Thats not really helpful eddy. I know if I was lighter or the bike was it would be a bit easier. But I need advice on how to get up then ie low gears and spin or higher gears and struggle stand up or sit down?



Eddy is right though. Lose weight, improve your threshold. You can train your threshold by riding hard on the flat ('hard' to the point where you can just about sustain a certain effort level for 5/10/20 mins) - but if you have hills locally, then even better.


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## ianwoodi (14 Sep 2013)

I try to do 1000ft for every 10 miles keep that up and will get better


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## Dusty Bin (14 Sep 2013)

ianwoodi said:


> I try to do 1000ft for every 10 miles keep that up and will get better



tricky in Essex though...


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## Rob3rt (15 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Thats not really helpful eddy. I know if I was lighter or the bike was it would be a bit easier. But I need advice on how to get up then ie low gears and spin or higher gears and struggle stand up or sit down?



Regardless of the "talkers" you find all over the internet, jabbering on about technique etc, climbing fast is, just like any other type of riding fast, mostly about the engine and how much pain you can endure. You can do all the talking about technique, gearing, spinning, staying seated, breathing deeply etc all you want, but the cold hard fact is, if you want to go faster uphill, you need to generate more power and/or reduce weight and learn to suffer.

So... ride your bike more!


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## Garz (15 Sep 2013)

+ 1 ride the bike up the hills.

Mix it up with sustained out of saddle efforts and long but not so steep inclines seated to gauge yourself what gears to use and your preferred style.


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## Louch (15 Sep 2013)

There's a few comments on here that may come across to you as a bit arsey, but there isn't really any other exercise that will have the efffect of just riding hills more often to improve your climbing mate. 

I am new to cycling this year, 15 stone at 6ft, so find hills a struggle, so have avoided them where possible. When I join group rides with guys off this forum I struggle, and I am usually last up a hill. Luckily they know this and wait for me. And when I depart off on a bit of tt racing I will wait up for them.  my aim for next year is to get my hill climbing improved, by dropping weight and adding more climbs to my routes when I am out over winter.


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## Doyleyburger (15 Sep 2013)

It is so frustrating when you are fairly new to cycling and are struggling in certain areas. I had the opposite problem to you. I am relatively ok at climbing but found it hard to keep up with others on flats and decents. I am light which makes it easier to climb but because I am light, the heavier guys are well out in front on the flats. It does get easier and with practise, like everything you will improve. So the guys are spot on with what they're telling you..... Keep doing what your doing and you'll get lighter, fitter and stronger and before you know it you'll be well in there going up hills with your cycling pack. I almost always pick a route with lots of hills being a newbie, as its the only way ill get these stick legs of mine stronger lol.


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## Andy_G (15 Sep 2013)

Dont do what i used to, bomb around on the big ring and then as you start limbing think "oh blx i havent dropped down" and then you start messing about quickly before you stop dead.


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## Michael Orvis (16 Sep 2013)

Let me say first, that I am a very new rider but I have seen massive gains in doing similar to the following.
@nickg I see your in Colchester. I'm in Ipswich and know that finding a good training hill will be nearly impossible. But try this; warm up by riding a steady pace for about 20 minutes. Then head to St Andrew's Ave - hit it quite fast and climb it for 1.5km - http://www.strava.com/segments/2300514

Turn around and now head down Cowdray Ave, you'll get a good amount of time to recover. Now around the roundabout, past the Institute and smash Balkerne Hill as hard as you can but go in slow and increase speed as long as you can, turn around, recover down the hill and do it again. Continue with some distance or go home. Rest the next day then do it again. This time reversing the method of attack; go into St Andrew's slow and increase speed / power. Then head to Balerne Hill and go into it as fast as you can and try and hold as much speed as possible - head back down the hill and repeat. As before, continue with ride or go home.

If you do this twice a week and once a month seek out something longer, Gun Hill near Dedham isn't far from you, and you'll start to see some big changes to the way you can handle climbs within a month.


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## nickg (16 Sep 2013)

Cheers for all your help people. Was gonna go out this evening but noticed I had a puncture. I had other things I needed to do so will sort it tomorrow after work then go and hit some hills.


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## Licramite (16 Sep 2013)

one way to stop people leaving you at the hill is to get their first then weave all over the road and get in their way. - well thats my technique.
I have been trying out spinning, I do find low gear and spin does work for keeping up your speed as opposed to keeping the gear up and standing on the peddles.
all I need is a lower gear than granny ring 1 gear. 
The other way of tackeling hills is to make sure your going down them all the time.


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## 400bhp (16 Sep 2013)

Hows the climbing going using the TT bars Licra?


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## Licramite (17 Sep 2013)

400bhp said:


> Hows the climbing going using the TT bars Licra?


yea - don't beleive everythin you read. - though apparantly I have the wrong bars for offroad extreme hill climbing - I think I have the wrong body to!.
younger and fitter guys must be doing this,


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## Rob3rt (17 Sep 2013)

Licramite said:


> yea - don't beleive everythin you read. - though apparantly I have the wrong bars for offroad extreme hill climbing - I think I have the wrong body to!.
> younger and fitter guys must be doing this,





Younger fitter guys don't do it either, the only time people use tri bars going up hill is when the hill is not very steep, 2-3% and long, for example, Long Hill near Buxton where you are going fast enough that the aero benefit is worth sacrificing power. I'd love to see someone ride up Winnats on aerobars, lmao!


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## lukesdad (17 Sep 2013)

off road hill climbing on tri bars


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## Garz (17 Sep 2013)

lukesdad said:


> off road hill climbing on tri bars



It's either stuff of legend or exuberant naive mixed with poor advice.


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## Licramite (18 Sep 2013)

I picked it up as a spin off looking into monster cross and it was on an american cycle site.
Living next door to some pritty impressive iron age hill forts on the edge of the plain I thought , well I have perfect terrain for this, slopes of 45%+ . but sadly I am to old for that lark - as I said younger guys than I must be doing it.
The aerobar thing wasn't about speed it was about position, your riding a bike at a 45%angle as I read it.
It was interesting experiment but maybe when I was younger.


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## Rob3rt (18 Sep 2013)

Licramite said:


> I picked it up as a spin off looking into monster cross and it was on an american cycle site.
> Living next door to some pritty impressive iron age hill forts on the edge of the plain I thought , well I have perfect terrain for this, slopes of 45%+ . but sadly I am to old for that lark - as I said younger guys than I must be doing it.
> The aerobar thing wasn't about speed it was about position, your riding a bike at a 45%angle as I read it.
> It was interesting experiment but maybe when I was younger.



And as I said, younger fitter guys aren't doing it either (at least not ones with sense). I have yet to see someone ride up a steep hill on the aerobars when I have been out racing hill climbs, which oddly enough, attract people who know how to get up a hill!

If you are riding your bike up a steep hill, then on aerobars is the last place you will want to be, because you will be out of the saddle wrestling with the bike and will need a wide hand grip for leverage and control, slow speed cycling on aerobars is not stable. Additionally you will not have much control of your weight distribution which is very important on steep hills where traction can be a problem, as can the front wheel skipping around. You do NOT get out of the saddle whilst riding on aerobars!


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## accountantpete (18 Sep 2013)

nickg said:


> Ive heard that doing squats help witb peoples cycling.



One legged and vary the point of attack from crouching right down to mid-way up and then from mid-way up to full up.

Try introducing a load on the back as well.

That will help when pushing down on the pedals - ideally you want to introduce another few pedalling styles to keep the legs fresh for hills though.


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## Licramite (18 Sep 2013)

well I can't disagree with you there, fortunately everytime I came off I was practicaly stationary. looking again I think they are more like tribars than . and you need special tyres on the back to.
it's a specialist loony thing to do - probably why only the yanks do it. or at least their the only ones I've read doing it.


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## Rob3rt (18 Sep 2013)

Got a link to this because I honestly have no idea what you are referring too, hah.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Sep 2013)

accountantpete said:


> One legged and vary the point of attack from crouching right down to mid-way up and then from mid-way up to full up.
> 
> Try introducing a load on the back as well.
> 
> That will help when pushing down on the pedals - ideally you want to introduce another few pedalling styles to keep the legs fresh for hills though.



One-legged exercises are ideal if you only do one-legged events. Otherwise, it makes more sense to train with as many legs as you currently have. Meanwhile, let's not worry about squats at all and focus on riding our bikes, eh?


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## Rob3rt (18 Sep 2013)

I also do not know any climbers who spend time doing squats, that is not to say they don't but... not something I have come across.

Might not be a bad idea for general health reasons though and provided that you do it at a time that allows full recovery before cycling so that it does not negatively effect on the bike training sessions, then why not.


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## Ghost Donkey (19 Sep 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Younger fitter guys don't do it either, the only time people use tri bars going up hill is when the hill is not very steep, 2-3% and long, for example, Long Hill near Buxton where you are going fast enough that the aero benefit is worth sacrificing power. I'd love to see someone ride up Winnats on aerobars, lmao!



If you've got a strong wind in your face it may work but I'd rather hunker down on the normal bars. A bit of a change in wind direction and a strong cross wind on an exposed hill and I wouldn't want to be on tri bars!


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## Rob3rt (19 Sep 2013)

Ghost Donkey said:


> If you've got a strong wind in your face it may work but I'd rather hunker down on the normal bars. A bit of a change in wind direction and a strong cross wind on an exposed hill and I wouldn't want to be on tri bars!



Even with a headwind you wouldnt want to be on aero bars on a steep hill. Only something that is a few %.


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## VamP (19 Sep 2013)

This is a good representation of how quickly aero factors diminish in significance on hills. Nearly 50% on just 2% incline, that's not even a hill!


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## Michael Orvis (19 Sep 2013)

so basically we should all carry lots of helium.


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## dee gee (19 Sep 2013)

during winter take a heavier bike out up the hills such as a mountain bike but dont touch the small chain rings on the front mech,when you get back on the road bike you will feel the benefit


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## Dusty Bin (19 Sep 2013)

alternatively, just ride harder on your road bike - same difference.


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## DooDah (26 Sep 2013)

Michael Orvis said:


> so basically we should all carry lots of helium.


Why, so that you sound funny when saying f*****g hill


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## tug benson (26 Sep 2013)

Louch said:


> There's a few comments on here that may come across to you as a bit arsey, but there isn't really any other exercise that will have the efffect of just riding hills more often to improve your climbing mate.
> 
> I am new to cycling this year, 15 stone at 6ft, so find hills a struggle, so have avoided them where possible. When I join group rides with guys off this forum I struggle, and I am usually last up a hill. Luckily they know this and wait for me. And when I depart off on a bit of tt racing I will wait up for them.  my aim for next year is to get my hill climbing improved, by dropping weight and adding more climbs to my routes when I am out over winter.


 I`ll wait for you at the top of the logie kirk


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