# Throttle E Bikes



## Chislenko (8 Oct 2021)

Seen a couple of these lately.

Anybody on here ride one, thoughts? Good or bad?

Some student in sandals passed me on a hill on one the other day and he wasn't pedalling otherwise I wouldn't have known these bikes existed.


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## ebikeerwidnes (8 Oct 2021)

I have seen a few - not a huge number but some

In fact I was coming out of Halford (sorry) a few days ago and a young bloke was going in with an ebike
I dunno what the bike he had was - but that was a DAMN big rear hub motor


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## Drago (8 Oct 2021)

Only those manufacturered prior to 2016 are legal here, exception being a trhottle just for pulling away that cuts out at 3mpg or so.


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## ebikeerwidnes (8 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Only those manufacturered prior to 2016 are legal here, exception being a trhottle just for pulling away that cuts out at 3mpg or so.


In addition the pre 2016 rights include a max motor power of 200W rather than 250W

although I did like having a throttle on my old ebike - but the extra power was great when I realised just how much easier it made going up a gravel hill I used to frequent!
I would prefer the slow 'walk assist' to work better on my Bosch ebike though - the Carrera one works better and is very useful when going up steep steps on rough paths!


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## Chislenko (8 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Only those manufacturered prior to 2016 are legal here, exception being a trhottle just for pulling away that cuts out at 3mpg or so.



Trust me drago this guy was not doing 3 mph. Which got me to thinking do people modify them to work with a throttle?


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## mjr (8 Oct 2021)

This old discussion has links and more info on doing it legally: Pedal assist and throttle? Is there such a thing? | CycleChat Cycling Forum – https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/pedal-assist-and-throttle-is-there-such-a-thing.249582/

Most of them you see are illegal. Not often a major problem, but expect to be treated harshly as an uninsured unapproved motorcycle if ever involved in an incident.


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## Jenkins (8 Oct 2021)

There's a lad who works in one of the warehouses round here that has one which is based around a fat bike, will do around 30mph and you can hear it coming due to the noise of the knobbly tyres on the road. Ridden sensibly so as not to draw attention to himself, but doesn't get away from the fact that it's totally illegal.


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## ericmark (9 Oct 2021)

Not a clue of the age of my bike, bought second hand, and the throttle is active, but it is very simple to change it, pressing + and - at same time puts it in program mode, and number 10 has three options, pedal activated (0), throttle activated (1), throttle and pedal activated (2) as to if guy before me changed it to (2) or if that was factory default I don't know. 
If I could find a way to set it to throttle up to 4 MPH I would, but can't find that option, although there is a sensor on the crank and the motor comes in reasonably quickly I find not quick enough to start on a hill, I need to turn crank around twice before motor gets up to full torque, but on my wife's bike with centre motor the assistance comes in with a 1/4 turn, there is no question my wife's bike is far better with motor in crank rather than in the wheel.
I have changed from KPH to MPH but nothing else, it seems reading internet I can adjust all sorts, but I have 17 functions, but internet either shows 16 or 22, so not really sure if I have guessed right on what they all do, so don't want to take a chance, in case I damage some thing.
I prefer not to use the electric if I can, it is there so if I hit a steep hill I can turn it on, if one can alter the settings at any time, then I am not sure about legal position, turning it off by going into menu is really no different to simply not turning the throttle.


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## HMS_Dave (9 Oct 2021)

Most of the Chinese conversion kits come with the thumb throttle from my research, which is fine in the US i believe. I have no issues with it except for legality sake. We're all adults and you make your choices and deal with the consequences if it all goes wrong and you are caught, presumably after an accident. Nothing is seemingly stopping people fitting crazy powerful kits out of China and you do come across reports of people being passed by them on BSO's extremely quickly and with no peddling. Frankly, a dangerous menace. I wouldn't call those with a 250w motor and a thumb throttle a dangerous menace but it isn't legal except in legacy ebike systems and personally, i would just leave it disconnected if i were to fit a kit to any of my bikes...


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## numbnuts (9 Oct 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Most of the Chinese conversion kits come with the thumb throttle from my research, which is fine in the US i believe. I have no issues with it except for legality sake. We're all adults and you make your choices and deal with the consequences if it all goes wrong and you are caught, presumably after an accident. Nothing is seemingly stopping people fitting crazy powerful kits out of China and you do come across reports of people being passed by them on BSO's extremely quickly and with no peddling. Frankly, a dangerous menace. I wouldn't call those with a 250w motor and a thumb throttle a dangerous menace but it isn't legal except in legacy ebike systems and personally, i would just leave it disconnected if i were to fit a kit to any of my bikes...


A lot of British conversion kits come with the thumb throttle too, but as I understand it throttles are not allowed on “new builds” after 2016, what about an "old bike" with a new e/motor ???


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## steveindenmark (9 Oct 2021)

I used to have a throttle e bike, here in Denmark. The throttle eats battery power, especially on hills and I did not feel the need to use it.


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## Drago (9 Oct 2021)

Chislenko said:


> Trust me drago this guy was not doing 3 mph. Which got me to thinking do people modify them to work with a throttle?


Yes, they do, upon which they become mopeds or light motorcycles (dependent upon performance levels), and youre looking at 6 piinta on your licence at least if caught.

I do have a problem with it. Britain has this wonderful tradition that when enough people break the rules the state responds by tightening up the law to punish the innocent - the naughty people were breaking the law already, so it makes no difference to them and they will carry on as normal. Its the law abiding rest of us that suffer. 

Enough folk twat around with illegal modifications and the law abiding rest of us will end up squirming as the screw gets tightened. If I end up having to buy insurance and don number plates then I will do unpleasant things to the next illegal ebiker I see.

If you can access it by any means, be it switch, menu, etc, then its illegal.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Only those manufacturered prior to 2016 are legal here, exception being a trhottle just for pulling away that cuts out at 3mpg or so.



If only cars cut out at 3 miles per gallon.


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## CXRAndy (9 Oct 2021)

A friend of mine has bought two, for him and his Mrs. Full suspension 750W peak hub motor. Came with racks , mudguard and lights


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## the snail (9 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> If you can access it by any means, be it switch, menu, etc, then its illegal.


It's only illegal if it is 'twist and go'. If the throttle is activated by pedalling, it's legal.


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## Drago (9 Oct 2021)

Yes, we know, and without pedalling it must cut out at 4MPH unless its a pre 2016 machine. We have already mentioned this.

And read the law carefully. Beyond that the throttle can only 'assist', it can not do all the work for you - not only do the pedals have to be going round, but the rider must be providing some effort else the throttle isn't merely assisting, its actually providing all the propulsion. 

_*Assist*_ (as in the E*A*PC legislation) is the key word, and that is all the throttle can do above 4MPH - simply waggling your feet about while the throttle does all the work is not legal, because the rider must be providion _propulsion._

Its a sheet piece of legislation, and that aspect is impossible to police.


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## ericmark (9 Oct 2021)

I can see with a sensor to measure the torque on the pedals you can require some effort, but I note my bike has a sensor to see if pedals turning, it does not measure torque, to my mind whole idea is to get exercise, I don't want the motor to do it all, it rather defeats the whole idea, may as well get a moped. 

I have 5 levels of assistance, and wife has three, but how they work is very different, mine seems to be speed related, so level one cuts in under 4 MPH and level 5 never seems to cut out, so in the main use level 2, which only seems to cut in under 8 MPH so in the main rides like a non electric bike until slowed down to under 8 MPH.

My wife's bike is very different, it seems to give assistance at any speed under 16 MPH, and the assistance gradually tails off as you speed up, so at around 10 MPH Eco is around 100 watt, Normal around 175 watt, and Boost full 250 watt.

Both systems work, but are very different, the problem arises when we go out together, as on the flat I can't keep up with her without using level 3, yet I could keep up with her when using non electric bike, the main problem is the gearing, both bikes it is hard to exceed 16 MPH pedalling due to gear ratios, but her bike light pedalling = 15 MPH, so she tends to stick to that speed.

I personally think the throttle is dangerous, after around 2 minutes it goes into cruse option, so to stop it you need to release throttle and twist it again or use brakes, so I only use when walking with the bike in level 1, likely I will remove it once I am sure how to without doing damage, in fact considering returning to non electric, only thing stopping me is my non electric don't fold, so can't carry them in car.


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## T4tomo (11 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Only those manufacturered prior to 2016 are legal here, exception being a trhottle just for pulling away that cuts out at 3mpg or so.





Ming the Merciless said:


> If only cars cut out at 3 miles per gallon.


Even a Humvee gets slightly more than 3 mpg, I've not wasted any time working out if there is anything less fuel efficient ? although anything doing less than that would pretty soon run out of juice.


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## ericmark (1 Nov 2021)

Never worked it out, exactly how many gallons our engines use on the 8 mile stretch of line, but too much to do a return trip without refilling so we needed two water treatment plants one each end of the line. 

How much a Stanley Steamer used thinking of cars rather than railway engines I don't know but more likely measured in gallons per mile than miles per gallon. 

Did we ever have steam motor bikes?


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## classic33 (1 Nov 2021)

Steam powered bicycles, ay...



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copeland_steam_bicycle

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuSLwE4IpnI


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## ericmark (1 Nov 2021)

OK steam bike

but 3 ton would not want to pick that up if it fell over.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Nov 2021)

classic33 said:


> Steam powered bicycles, ay...
> View attachment 615994
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copeland_steam_bicycle
> ...




With a nice cup of tea at top of tha ill


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## ebikeerwidnes (1 Nov 2021)

WOW
I'd definitely be wearing insulated pants if I was riding that 

looks damn scary!


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## Biker man (2 Nov 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> With a nice cup of tea at top of tha ill


I never fail to learn something on this forum.


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## David EBiker (16 Feb 2022)

Details and an image of the LE1 Type approval can be found here.... https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/throttle.283167/page-6


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