# Brompton configurations nightmare



## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Warning, I might be a suffer of OCD!

Howdy Folks,

So after debating on various folders for a while (see my previous posts in the forum for historical background), I've finally decided that a Brompton will the the way to go. Hurray!

However, what seemed like an easy choice has rapidly went downhill in the mega confusion lane 

Initially, I thought I'd go for a M type Ti frame based bike with 2-speed gears with mudguards (no rack, but ez wheels), but it all comes down to 10 kg, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a Ti (titanium) frame altogether. I mean it just saves me around 900 gm only?! So, is titanium really worth the money?

Also, I went for the 2-speed gears over the 3-speed because that saves another 630 gm - which is pretty big, but is that a wise trade off? 
I'm not expecting to go on really hilly areas any time soon, so I thought the 2-speed will be good enough, at least for a folding bike?

So, right now I'm in a dillema regarding whether to Ti or not to Ti, whether to go for a 2-speed or a 3-speed (ruled out 6-speed, the gear changing mechanism was a turn off, not to mention added weight).

Btw, cycle 2 work scheme window closes in two weeks time at work, so I need to make a decision fast!

Help please!

Cheers.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

Mandark - I haven't read your other posts but is there a reason that you need the folder to be low weight apart from carrying it about?

I would choose the other components first and if you want a rack etc it will bring up the weight - If I was buying a brompton I'd look at more gears and a handlebar system that suited my riding as priorities over weight.


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Hi ttcycle,

The only reason I want the bike to weight less so that I don't get strained lugging it around while changing trains, something that will happen on a daily basis and I'd be carrying the bike around for 15 minutes or so.

Cheers.


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## mickle (18 Oct 2009)

Ti, 3 speed, rack & EZ wheels, regular bars with XX low gear option would be my choice. The two speed is just too limited and has a tendency to get clogged up without regular cleaning (if it's sore knees you want just go for a single speed). The two speed only really starts to make sense as an upgrade for the 3spd in my view.

Spec the extra stiff suspension elastomer too if you weigh more than about six stone.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

Hi Mandark

If you're carrying it for 15 mins - might be worth considering the wheels that you can order for them- so you can wheel it around rather than carrying it if it's a possiblity. Do you have back or arm problems which would mean you'd need to consider weight? Tbh spending the extra on a Ti frame for a Brompton would be a waste of cash - concerns re weight would be important for racing bikes- don't get seduced by the marketing of a Ti frame - seems uneccessary in this case esp if you're using it for a commute. I used to lug about my cheap folder on the trains years ago when I lived elsewhere- that bike weighed about 18-19kg - you get used to weight -though I'd recommend something lighter than my steel folder of yesteryear!!

A question to consider which may put it into perspective is..think about the items you will carry on the rack ie luggage and the relative weight of that as well - would a Ti frame really save you much weight?

Things to consider are gearing - do you have a lot of hills where you are - forget how it looks for a moment as if the gears don't allow you to get up and down the hills you won't use the bike as it will initially just feel torturous!

I don't see a strong arguement to go for the Ti frame, it may be lighter and stronger but it's a hell of a premium to pay for it -it would also mean a much increased waiting time for the bike.

My old manager got the 6 speed brompton -can't remember the handlebars he had - but it was fairly light and my test ride of it was zippy- though the gearing is quite high which my mean your legs spin out a lot without you having the power/momentum to drive forward as much. 

EDIT -Mickle's post mentioned changing to a lower gear option - I'd definitely spend the money here instead

EDIT 2: Misread mudguards as mudguards and rack- though original points still stand - consider what is practical for your commute -

I agree with Mickle,it's highly unlikely you will carry it for 15 mins - you can just wheel it or push it


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## mickle (18 Oct 2009)

No-one carries a Brompton for fifteen minutes.


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Hi,
Thank you for taking time replying to my message.

You've convinced me that Ti will be a non issue, given my context. I guess I knew it all along, but the lure of titanium was clouding my vision ;-)

Have nice weekend, or what's left of it!



ttcycle said:


> Hi Mandark
> 
> If you're carrying it for 15 mins - might be worth considering the wheels that you can order for them- so you can wheel it around rather than carrying it if it's a possiblity. Do you have back or arm problems which would mean you'd need to consider weight? Tbh spending the extra on a Ti frame for a Brompton would be a waste of cash - concerns re weight would be important for racing bikes- don't get seduced by the marketing of a Ti frame - seems uneccessary in this case esp if you're using it for a commute. I used to lug about my cheap folder on the trains years ago when I lived elsewhere- that bike weighed about 18-19kg - you get used to weight -though I'd recommend something lighter than my steel folder of yesteryear!!
> 
> ...


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Hi Mickle,
Thanks for the helpful input.

When you say XX low gear option (assuming you're hinting at a 3-speed), how much percentage do you have in mind? Brompton does 12% and 18% lowering over the standard for 3-speed (which if I understand itself used to be a lowered option in older days).

Cheers.



mickle said:


> Ti, 3 speed, rack & EZ wheels, regular bars with XX low gear option would be my choice. The two speed is just too limited and has a tendency to get clogged up without regular cleaning (if it's sore knees you want just go for a single speed). The two speed only really starts to make sense as an upgrade for the 3spd in my view.
> 
> Spec the extra stiff suspension elastomer too if you weigh more than about six stone.


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## Bromptonaut (18 Oct 2009)

Under what circs do you need to carry it for 15 mins? 

Unless you're on underground it's usually easier to unfold it and push or alternatively use the Easi wheels and tow it like a suitcase. I've used an L3 and more recently and M6R for 10years and the only time I've carried it on PT was for a couple of weeks when London Midland had a misguided policy to enforce folding at the ticket barrier.


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## Yellow Fang (18 Oct 2009)

I think I'd go for the all-steel, 2-speed S-type with the straight handlebars myself, unless I needed something bigger than the S-bag to go on the front. Depends how hilly your ride is on whether two gears is enough. I like the titanium bits, but they're expensive.


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Erm... I should have mentioned 15 minutes a day in total . Yes, it will be underground, but what worries me are stations where I have to climb up/down stairs, with no escalator access, which is what my interchanges usually are like.



Bromptonaut said:


> Under what circs do you need to carry it for 15 mins?
> 
> Unless you're on underground it's usually easier to unfold it and push or alternatively use the Easi wheels and tow it like a suitcase. I've used an L3 and more recently and M6R for 10years and the only time I've carried it on PT was for a couple of weeks when London Midland had a misguided policy to enforce folding at the ticket barrier.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

mandark - you will be absolutely fine in that case - up and down stairs with the old heavy steel folder in my case was a cinch when I used to commute by bike and train and if you don't have back or arm troubles then lightweight is not important.

What is the gearing like on your current bike - this would be a good place to start re gearing considerations - assuming of course you already have a bike!!


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## Bromptonaut (18 Oct 2009)

Agree with TT on carrying where folding is not mandated. Hand round main tube, nose of saddle on shoulder and you should be fine. The M6 has the clip to keep the rear triangle in place but personally I prefer to let it dangle - YMMV. 

Much easier to carry that way then folded as the bag stays on the front and weight is close to the body's centreline. I'd have my back out within a week if I had to carry it folded.


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## John the Monkey (18 Oct 2009)

Whatever you're doing, do it - I seem to recall that Brompton have allocated all 2009 stock, and the 2010 models have a significant price increase to come.

It's the reason I went for an S6, not an S3 - that's what my LBS had, and they couldn't get S3s until January, and at the new price (£100 ish more!)


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Hi tt,

Speaking of current gearing in my bike... there's none! I mean I don't have a bike and haven't had one since I left college, so it's a bit of a comeback journey for me :-)



ttcycle said:


> mandark - you will be absolutely fine in that case - up and down stairs with the old heavy steel folder in my case was a cinch when I used to commute by bike and train and if you don't have back or arm troubles then lightweight is not important.
> 
> What is the gearing like on your current bike - this would be a good place to start re gearing considerations - assuming of course you already have a bike!!


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

oh ok- my assumption; you're a comeback kid!!

In that case go for three speed - I'd be inclined to say six to give you more options so you can select a gear that you can easily spin on (less work), especially if you're a newbie returning to cycling but that's up to you. Then if you find your legs are getting stronger the more you ride you can replace some of the chainwheels (I've heard of people doing this at their LBS) and getter gearing more suited to your developing riding style.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

if you had to fold it up and carry - if both hands were free you could carry it broadly across your chest to distribute the weight across your body rather than lugging it one handed...still with the wheels an unlikely scenario....


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## SavageHoutkop (18 Oct 2009)

I have an M6R and like it. I don't need to use it in conjunction with tube/train changes though - I carry it down one flight of stairs in the morning (flat) and up one (work) and vice versa coming home. It's not bad to carry really so long as it's not particularly far. I tend to pick it up around the main bar rather than the seat as I'm too short for the seat and then lean it against my legs to carry it up/down stairs. You also won't want to be carrying it the entire of one 'change' - you'll probably want to wheel it along until you have stairs (folded, on EZWheels - _probably_ easier if you have the rear rack but I haven't wheeled the non-rear racks along on EZWheels). You can do this without bending down much if you leave the seat slightly up when folding - it still has to be down far enough to hold the bike together mind! - and then steer with the back of the seat. 

I really like having 6 speeds. For my commute I normally only use one, TBH, as my commute is flat. However, I have used the whole range depending on where I am riding. I've decided the Brompton is so useful for using with train trips and days out etc etc that it's come on holiday with me now and the extra gears are useful. I could probably make do with 3; but I do enjoy the 6. IIRC going from 3 speed to 6 speed isn't much extra weight, so you might want to consider it for the extra flexibility it gives you.


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## Twanger (18 Oct 2009)

If you have 2 weeks to buy a Brompton, you are limited by the stock the LBS has on hand. Waiting time is up to 12 weeks for bespoke.


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## SavageHoutkop (18 Oct 2009)

Agreed. And, while you might find bikes on (say) Evans website, there is no substitute for a LBS that _actually knows _about Bromptons to deal with any issues (particularly warranty issues, and that first service you're supposed to get fairly soon after starting to ride the bike) that might arise. My LBS did something the other day which meant the bike no longer folded!


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## mark i (18 Oct 2009)

I would not worry about the weight of the frame re titanium, the rest of the parts are not exactly lightwieght! Ref carrying, when I use mine I have the rear rack and easy wheels. I am able to just pull it along by the handlebars, then fold them down at the last minute. I do not find that the rack is much good for carrying as anything wider than the rack stops you pedalling!
Ref 3 or 6 speed when I got mine (18 months ago) the deralleur (SP?) was used to give you two gear ranges, but they had large overlap, it seemed odd the way you would have to use the gears to go through them sequencially. I used the standard 3 speed, 1st was used occasionally and for starting, 2nd used intially for all flat and 3 for downhill. Now I use 2nd or 3rd on the flat depending on how much energy I have. It is undualating here rather than hilly!


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2009)

As I understand it 3 to 6 spd is just an extra sprocket on the back, you still have the 3 speed hub which is pretty reliable. Both mine have not had to be touched in 7 years. Go for a 6spd (x2 ratios of 3 is a better way to visualise the gearing), without rack or lights to add extra weight. Forget Ti on a Brompton, it's a gimmick. If the whole frame were Ti then it might be worthwhile but I believe it is just the forks and back triangle. Go for M or flat bars. For me it was M bars which I have put mini bar ends on.

In reality you won't be carrying it much. Just hook the back wheel under and stand it on the trolley wheels whilst waiting anywhere. When you have to move open the bike out again in an instant and move on. This is well impressive and always you get people coming up to you to talk about the bike.

Although you can you'd be insane to take a Brompton on the Tube IMHO. Why don't you ride it? It's nice seeing the sights of London. Why buy one if all you are going to do is carry it around ? Waste of money buying one if this is so. Honestly an L6 without all the furntiure to go on it is the best and lightest option. Go for a front touring pannier which mounts on the front block (an extra £8 IIRC). As you are a returner to cycling give yourself the best chance of getting a gear you are comfortable with. If you were a regular fit road cyclist such as Robert Heras then maybe you could cope with a fixed, 2 or 3 spd. They are well fast and manoeurable bikes when you're are used to riding them. Good for scalping .


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

Crankarm said:


> As I understand it 3 to 6 spd is just an extra sprocket on the back, you still have the 3 speed hub which is pretty reliable. Both mine have not had to be touched in 7 years. Go for a 6spd (x2 ratios of 3 is a better way to visualise the gearing), without rack or lights to add extra weight. Forget Ti on a Brompton, it's a gimmick. If the whole frame were Ti then it might be worthwhile but I believe it is just the forks and back triangle. Go for M or flat bars. For me it was M bars which I have put mini bar ends on.
> 
> In reality you won't be carrying it much. Just hook the back wheel under and stand it on the trolley wheels whilst waiting anywhere. When you have to move open the bike out again in an instant and move on. This is well impressive and always you get people coming up to you to talk about the bike.
> 
> Although you can you'd be insane to take a Brompton on the Tube IMHO. Why don't you ride it? It's nice seeing the sights of London. Why buy one if all you are going to do is carry it around ? Waste of money buying one if this is so. Honestly an L6 without all the furntiure to go on it is the best and lightest option. Go for a front touring pannier which mounts on the front block (an extra £8 IIRC). As you are a returner to cycling give yourself the best chance of getting a gear you are comfortable with. If you were a regular fit road cyclist such as Robert Heras then maybe you could cope with a fixed, 2 or 3 spd. They are well fast and manoeurable bikes when you're are used to riding them. Good for scalping .




+1- Wealth of info there- good post crankarm..funny this, I don't own a Brompton nor plan to get one!


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Hi Savage,

Speaking of LBS, which one for central London? Right now I'm thinking of buying from Acton bikes, but I'm flexible, as long as the LBS falls under cycle scheme (see http://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/employee,partnerfinder.htm)

Cheers.



SavageHoutkop said:


> Agreed. And, while you might find bikes on (say) Evans website, there is no substitute for a LBS that _actually knows _about Bromptons to deal with any issues (particularly warranty issues, and that first service you're supposed to get fairly soon after starting to ride the bike) that might arise. My LBS did something the other day which meant the bike no longer folded!


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

*By the way... did I mention colour?*

Hehehehe... I need to decide on a cool colour combo too, was thinking total black. I wish the Brompton website had a colour chooser to demo how different combinations look!


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2009)

ttcycle said:


> +1- Wealth of info there- good post crankarm..funny this, *I don't own a Brompton nor plan to get one*!



Err......so you're well placed to advise some one who is considering purchasing one ?

Sorry, but LoL  .............


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## Twanger (18 Oct 2009)

Crankarm said:


> As I understand it 3 to 6 spd is just an extra sprocket on the back, you still have the 3 speed hub which is pretty reliable.




Not quite - the range on the Sturmey is wider on the 6 speed with, I think, a lower middle gear.

I have an M6L. The M bars are the best for me, being higher than the S and sturdier than the P. I use 1 and 2 up serious hills (down hills I coast, for I am lazy and frightened of belting down hills on a folder), 3 and 4 around town (so the sturmey archer stays in mid position, and I change on the derailleur), 5 on fast, fairly traffic free bits of flat, and I have yet to use 6 seriously.

One thing I am very happy about getting, though, is the Brooks saddle....

It's no problem carrying my steel framed bike upstairs. Assuming you are not carrying up the stairs at Russell Square, you should have no problems.


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2009)

mandark said:


> Hehehehe... I need to decide on a cool colour combo too, was thinking total black. I wish the Brompton website had a colour chooser to demo how different combinations look!



You pay extra to have your own colour combo IIRC and you would have to wait longer to get one. Why not get a bog standard colour combo that's in stock in a bike shop what ever colour it is black, red/black, yellow, pink or green?

Have you actually ridden one? If not I suggest you get a test ride asap otherwise you're just peeing in the wind and wasting the time of those who are generously giving you advice about them.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

Crankarm said:


> Err......so you're well placed to advise some one who is considering purchasing one ?
> 
> Sorry, but LoL  .............



Looked into one quite some time ago, did tons of research so know a lot about them but since my workplace and home location changed in time -no longer required one to get to work. So not a complete red herring chucking irrelevant info out there!

Mandark, black you will find will is often standard and stocked in the shops - colour combos will definitely make your wait longer and more expensive as it will be prices for a 2010 bike instead of the current stocl of 2009. As Crankarm says get out there and try one as it would be foolish to purchase without riding one esp if you've been off a bike for some time - they are a different feel to 'normal bikes' due to the wheel size- a bit twitchier.


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Yep, I have tried one, a couple of colleagues at work have all steel ones (and that's where the weight complaints come from, because they felt a tad bit weighty...)



Crankarm said:


> Have you actually ridden one? If not I suggest you get a test ride asap otherwise you're just peeing in the wind and wasting the time of those who are generously giving you advice about them.


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## ttcycle (18 Oct 2009)

mandark said:


> Yep, I have tried one, a couple of colleagues at work have all steel ones (and that's where the weight complaints come from, because they felt a tad bit weighty...)



honestly, they're really not that heavy and as many have said; just wheel it around for longer distances.

As a previous poster has said it might be worth deciding soon so you can take advantage of the 2009 prices as he says there will be a price hike unless you're fond of wasting money needlessly.

Like I said practicality and function over needless features etc.
What do you need and what do you want are different questions.


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2009)

Twanger said:


> Not quite - the range on the Sturmey is wider on the 6 speed with, I think, a lower middle gear.



I have an L6 of 2004 vintage and looking in the brochure from this time which I have retained it says for T6 & L6 in _Transmission_ section, 



> "_same as T3 and L3, but two rear sprockets, 13T & 15T_."



I guess since my L6 purchase in 2004 Brompton have changed the specs so 3 spd now has a Sturmey Archer hub and the 6 spd a Brompton Wide Range hub (BWR). I see from their brochure that they only offer a 6 spd with rack or lights in the P6R/P6R-X. Heavy, heavy . I think a rear rack on a Brompton makes the bike look ugly and certainly looks like an after thought. Best without it. Less weight. Carrying one's luggage on the front is better IMHO. So a standard naked 6 spd with just mudguards is NLA?





Twanger said:


> I have an M6L. The M bars are the best for me, being higher than the S and sturdier than the P. I use 1 and 2 up serious hills (down hills I coast, for I am lazy and frightened of belting down hills on a folder), 3 and 4 around town (so the sturmey archer stays in mid position, and I change on the derailleur), 5 on fast, fairly traffic free bits of flat, and I have yet to use 6 seriously.



Err.... when did you buy your M6L as according to the current brochure the 6 spd has Brompton's own highly efficient Wide Range hub and not the Sturmey Archer as I have said above is fitted to the 3 speed bikes ????



Twanger said:


> One thing I am very happy about getting, though, is the Brooks saddle....



One can put any saddle on a Brompton .........



Twanger said:


> It's no problem carrying my steel framed bike upstairs. Assuming you are not carrying up the stairs at Russell Square, you should have no problems.



I can never understand those who take them on the Tube. Do you do it because you can? Why not ride it, it is far quicker to get to where you want to go. Surely one of the principle joys of cycling is not to have to use the over crowded, smelly, dirty, claustrophobic and unreliable public transport system in London?


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2009)

mandark said:


> Yep, I have tried one, a couple of colleagues at work have all steel ones (and that's where the weight complaints come from, *because they felt a tad bit weighty*...)



What are you on????? Weighty to what? They are the best folding bike on the market period. The tens of thousands who have bought them must mean that Brompton are doing something right. Buy a full carbon Pro race bike instead and try carrying that up some stairs or an exacalator in rush hour and see how easy that is . It might be light but I would suggest you ain't going to get very far very quickly.

You're obviously not on a Brompton or this planet.

You spend 99.99999% of the time riding it or you should. Riding them they are light and very manoevrable. If you want to carry something so much then buy a suitcase which has those little wheels and a long handle, fill it with bricks and try pulling it around. You won't even have to ride it .

It was nice giving you the benefit of my advice. I'm pleased you found it useful and 'am glad you are grateful. Let us know what if anything you do purchase. "I'm out" as they say.


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## mandark (18 Oct 2009)

Crankarm said:


> What are you on????? Weighty to what?


Feeling the weight of something is a relative thing, no need to get grumpy 

Thanks for your valuable input anyway, I'll be sure to let you know what I end up with.

G'Night.


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## Twanger (19 Oct 2009)

Crankarm said:


> Err.... when did you buy your M6L as according to the current brochure the 6 spd has Brompton's own highly efficient Wide Range hub and not the Sturmey Archer as I have said above is fitted to the 3 speed bikes ????



Mine was built bespoke last August...two months ago. I got it bespoke precisely because I didn't want the rack and dynamo lights with the 6 speed option. I tend to use the term "Sturmey" generically, like "hoover", "Kleenex" and "Tippex". But I think it actually is a Sturmey. I'll check when I get home as I rode in on the hybrid today. I do know that it has a wider range than the 3 spd.

BTW, I don't take my Brompton on the tube. I merely mention Russell Square as it has a ludicrously long staircase. I do, however, whip it around British Rail (or whatever it is now) stations with no probs. Crystal Palace has lots of stairs...it's a fair hike from platform 4 to the exit, involving three significant flights of stairs.


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## CharlieB (19 Oct 2009)

The weird thing I've found about carrying a Brompton is that it always _feels_ lighter unfolded.
How does that work, then?


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## Twanger (19 Oct 2009)

CharlieB said:


> The weird thing I've found about carrying a Brompton is that it always _feels_ lighter unfolded.
> How does that work, then?



It's balanced. That's why. I've noticed the same.


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## Bromptonaut (19 Oct 2009)

The early six speeds used a Sachs Torpedo hub, same as the three speed, and had some overlap issues. AFAIK circa 2008 that option was withdrawn in favour of the current set up of six speeds based on a Brompton Wide Ratio (BWR) hub. My 6spd M6R was a bespoke build but I think I've seen them in shops as well. 

The BWR is manufactured by SA but Brompton were heavily involved in the design. Gives an excellent range of gears and provided you tweak the levers in the right order it's possible to go through all 6 ratios sequentially. The 2/3 and 4/5 changes require the use of both levers at the same time.

When I first got the M6R in May I tended to use 3 as lowest gear on my Euston to Chancery Lane commute. However that triggered a return of the old knee problem and since mid September I'm dropping to 2 for standing starts. Still not got it to the point of being intuitive but as 50 appraoches I'm finding that about lots of things


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## chap (19 Oct 2009)

*Bromptons*

I chose a 3 speed because I just wanted to pootle around town (slow cycling and all that.) However, I have been surprised to find myself beating people with several gears especially when going uphill. On the Brompton (especially at night) London becomes a playground, and though I have yet to brave Hampstead Heath, the 3 gears have proven more than useful. I personally find my M3L to be a fast bike.

However, I'd imagine that with the extra range, and assuming the 6 speed is as reliable as my good old 3 speed, that the M6L would be like a Ferrari in town, without the breakdowns I would hope. Should the need occur in the future, I may could always sell my current bike and buy the 6 speed as they hold their value well, but for now my M3l is fine for me.

As for the rack, I haven't got one but I would imagine that they would be of use at times, then again whether it would be used is another thing.


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## TheBoyBilly (20 Nov 2009)

What an interesting thread for someone who is eagerly awaiting delivery of his M6L (in Black/Red with Brooks B17) from On Your Bike in Tooley Street- what a lovely bike shop, by the way. Early December is their estimate. Is there a knack with the sequential gearchanging then? Also I have ordered Marathon Plus tyres from Schwalbe.....a good choice? Any other advice eagerly welcomed.

Bill


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## John the Monkey (20 Nov 2009)

TheBoyBilly said:


> Is there a knack with the sequential gearchanging then? Also I have ordered Marathon Plus tyres from Schwalbe.....a good choice? Any other advice eagerly welcomed.


Regarding the gears, you have two changers - left hand one does the derailleur, right hand does the hub.

So first is; Left in 1, Right in 1
Second is: Left in 2, Right in 1
Third is: Left in 1, Right in 2
Fourth is: Left in 2, Right in 2
Fifth is: Left in 1, Right in 3
Sixth is: Left in 2, Right in 3.

Basically to change sequentially, you have to do the derailleur and hub almost at the same time for changes between 2nd and third, and fourth and fifth (not quite, as the derailleur seems to lag slightly while the chain moves). I seem to use third and fifth more than anything else. It's a sight easier to do than to explain, fortunately. The gear spread seems very wide to me, and I can't remember using the first on the hub (too low) and don't use the sixth much (too high unless I'm really moving) although my S6L only gets a short run to the station and back that's all fairly flat.

Marathon Plus will be heavy, but as puncture proof as anything. I'm on the Brompton Greens myself, which I like so far.


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## Crankarm (21 Nov 2009)

TheBoyBilly said:


> What an interesting thread for someone who is eagerly awaiting delivery of his M6L (in Black/Red with Brooks B17) from On Your Bike in Tooley Street- what a lovely bike shop, by the way. Early December is their estimate. Is there a knack with the sequential gearchanging then? Also I have ordered Marathon Plus tyres from Schwalbe.....a good choice? Any other advice eagerly welcomed.
> 
> Bill



.

The gearing is not such a problem. You'll easily work it out and it will become second nature. If you write down all the gear inches in order of size and what configuration they are as a previous poster has done then you will see that Brompton zigzag the gear ratios up the low and high ranges. So the next highest or lowest gear may not necessarily come from changing the gear in the hub, but by switching the sprocket on which the chain rests thus from low to high ratio or vice versa.

Must admit I've not found the need for Schwalbe MP+ on the Brompton or any bike for that matter. They are a bit ....... heavy. The Brompton kevlar green banded tyres have been more than adequate for me. They've not punctured, grip has been fine and rolling resistance isn't too high.


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## SavageHoutkop (21 Nov 2009)

I tend not to change gear much day to day (really, my commute is flat, and the gear I normally ride in gets me up to speed well from a standing start as well). If I do need a gear one up (normally if I have a nice clean traffic free stretch on a slight downhill) it's normally from '4th' to '5th' which means a change of both hub and derailleur (hub into top gear, derailleur into the large sprocket from the small). I've found the best option is to flick the derailleur onto the larger sprocket and as soon as it takes (i.e. just before your legs all start spinning too fast!) flick the hub gear changer. You can feel it happen, easier to do than it sounds!

As for the tyres... I think it depends. Both my husband and myself had punctures on Brompton Greens in the same week (bad luck, probably some super-sharp glass on our commute!). That was a bit annoying, then I got another puncture (to be fair this was a screw about an inch long and I think any tyre would have been hard pressed). After the glass issue I'd pondered moving to Marathons or Marathon plusses; and decided to go for the plus *literally* just before the screw went through the green. Had the plusses on ever since; so far so good, but equally the husband (who's still on the Greens) hasn't had another puncture yet either. It feels to me that the Marathons make going uphill a bit harder, but equally when I'm up to speed or downhill it feels like they're faster. After reading the difficulty some people have with Marathon Plus, and after spending quite a while myself just trying to get the green on, I decided that the bike shop could fit it for me.


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## SavageHoutkop (21 Nov 2009)

Sorry! Completely missed this one. 
I'm not London based so don't know unfortunately....


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## chap (21 Nov 2009)

TheBoyBilly said:


> What an interesting thread for someone who is eagerly awaiting delivery of his M6L (in Black/Red with Brooks B17) from On Your Bike in Tooley Street- what a lovely bike shop, by the way. Early December is their estimate. Is there a knack with the sequential gearchanging then? Also I have ordered Marathon Plus tyres from Schwalbe.....a good choice? Any other advice eagerly welcomed.
> 
> Bill




A slight aside, but I paid a visit to On Your Bike on your recommendation, and they have an underground bike park (as in car park but good). 

What an inspired idea!

I would also recommend Compton Cycles (where I bought my Brompton) they are fair, friendly, and knowledgeable although at the opposite end of London for me


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## BentMikey (21 Nov 2009)

Compton Cycles - v. happy with them stocking 406 presta inner tubes today, saved my bacon big time. 4 punctures today, two unpatchable due to splits, and all different causes. Grrrr!


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## TheBoyBilly (21 Nov 2009)

Thank you for the warm welcome fellas. I am even more excited about getting my Brommie now. I am also sure that I will master those gear changes by following your helpful advice. I am only surprised that it has taken me so long to take the plunge and buy one. I have alaways admired Bromptons for their functionality but have also thought of them as a design icon...really cool. 
As for On Your Bike, Chap, I could spend all day in there as it seems such a friendly place to do business. BentMikey, I have missed you over on Bikeradar, did someone upset you? (I know there some odd folk on that site)

Bill


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## Crankarm (21 Nov 2009)

Anyone know if Brompton allow or do tours of their factory to show how the great machine is made, for current and prospective customers only obviously.............. as I would love to pay them a visit as I think the design is in the best top ten 10 maybe top five of the 20th C. There's praise.


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## Fab Foodie (21 Nov 2009)

Crankarm said:


> Anyone know if Brompton allow or do tours of their factory to show how the great machine is made, for current and prospective customers only obviously.............. as I would love to pay them a visit as I think the design is in the best top ten 10 maybe top five of the 20th C. There's praise.



Charlotte back in the days of acf organised a trip round the Brommie factory many moons ago. I recall the photos. Interesting.


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## TheBoyBilly (22 Nov 2009)

Funnily enough, Mr.Crankarm, I was thinking of a tour of the factory after logging on to the Brompton website. I'm sure they have done it before (even if it was only an anniversary-type event) and as a PA exercise is would be great. That said, as Brompton seem snowed under with orders, they may not feel the need to go through the hassle of arranging visits what with the H & S laws and all. Still, I might give the factory a ring this week to tell them that they should be about to build my bike and would it be possible to come along to have a look-see with some folk from this forum - say five or six of us. What do you think? It may be too near the Christmas rush though I fear.

Bill


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## BentMikey (22 Nov 2009)

TheBoyBilly said:


> BentMikey, I have missed you over on Bikeradar, did someone upset you? (I know there some odd folk on that site)
> 
> Bill



No, just me failing to do any work by spending too much time online. I've been back there for a while now that it's my quiet period of the year again.


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## Brains (22 Nov 2009)

The CTC magazine had a several page artical on the Brompton factory a few months back. Makes for interesting reading


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## TheBoyBilly (22 Nov 2009)

Brains said:


> The CTC magazine had a several page artical on the Brompton factory a few months back. Makes for interesting reading



Thanks for that Brains, will try to get hold of a copy.


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## TheBoyBilly (24 Nov 2009)

Hi all, just to let you know that, having emailed Brompton about factory tours, that I received a prompt reply today. As anticipated the factory do not foresee the possibilty of running a tour in the near future as the premises don't lend themselves to a safe environment for groups of visitors. It was worth the ask but I knew the answer really. A sign of the times I suppose. 

Bill


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## chap (27 Nov 2009)

TheBoyBilly said:


> Hi all, just to let you know that, having emailed Brompton about factory tours, that I received a prompt reply today. As anticipated the factory do not foresee the possibilty of running a tour in the near future as the premises don't lend themselves to a safe environment for groups of visitors. It was worth the ask but I knew the answer really. A sign of the times I suppose.
> 
> Bill




I'd imagine they would be getting prepared for the 2010 season. I wonder if the extra £100 cost for essentially a 2009 model, will affect demand.


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## Twanger (28 Nov 2009)

chap said:


> A slight aside, but I paid a visit to On Your Bike on your recommendation, and they have an underground bike park (as in car park but good).
> 
> What an inspired idea!
> 
> I would also recommend Compton Cycles (where I bought my Brompton) they are fair, friendly, and knowledgeable although at the opposite end of London for me



+1

I also bought my Brompton from Compton's.


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## samanosuke (28 Nov 2009)

Regarding gear shifting, am I correct in that we are suppose to only shift the hub gears when we are NOT pedaling, and only shift the deraileur gears when pedaling?


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## chap (28 Nov 2009)

*Gear changing*



samanosuke said:


> Regarding gear shifting, am I correct in that we are suppose to only shift the hub gears when we are NOT pedaling, and only shift the deraileur gears when pedaling?




That's right hub gears don't like pedal movement, whereas derailers do. I sometimes accidentally pedal when moving the hub gear (used to derailer bikes) although that is rare. 

I suggest if you have a 6 speed to just treat both as hubs (if you keep forgetting) this way when you start peddling, the derailer will sort itself out.


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## TheBoyBilly (29 Nov 2009)

chap said:


> That's right hub gears don't like pedal movement, whereas derailers do. I sometimes accidentally pedal when moving the hub gear (used to derailer bikes) although that is rare.
> 
> I suggest if you have a 6 speed to just treat both as hubs (if you keep forgetting) this way when you start peddling, the derailer will sort itself out.



Something else I hadn't thought of having been brought up on derailleurs. I haven't ridden a hub geared bike since the mid 60s so thanks for the heads-up.

Bill


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