# Stick with tubeless?



## Slipperdiff (3 Jul 2019)

I have just acquired a nice Trek Madone 6.5 which has upgraded Aura 5 TLR aero wheels with 26mm tubeless tyres. I’ve not ridden tubeless before and so I’m not sure whether to give them a go, pick up some sealant and a high pressure pump and ride some miles on them, or swap for tubed tyres which I’ve always used. The bike has been sitting for a while and one of the valves is gummed up, so I think I’ll need to take the tyres off anyway to clean everything up.

I know tubeless may generate fewer flats but they look trickier and messier to fit and maintain.

What is your advice?


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## lane (3 Jul 2019)

Experience with tubeless can vary massively depending on tyres and rims? What tyres does the bike have?. I think if you are interested enough in the process of tubeless to put a bit of time and effort in give it a go esp cially as you already have the tyres. I have GP5000 and can easily inflate them with a track pump and even with a full size hand pump and also fit them easily without levers. They stay inflated. It might be as easy as that for you - but you won't know until you try. If they don't work you don't need to swap tyres just put tubes in the ones you have providing they are not too hard to get on and off.


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## Slipperdiff (3 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> Experience with tubeless can vary massively depending on tyres and rims? What tyres does the bike have?


It has 26mm Bontrager R3 Hard-Case Lite TLR tubeless tyres (well, slicks really). They're in lightly used condition - the central moulding mark is still visible.


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## I like Skol (3 Jul 2019)

Changed my sons mtb from tubeless to traditional inner tubes. Reasons were random losses of tyre pressure when stored and gumming of valves that made topping up the pressure problematic. No such issues since going back to the 'old fashioned ' system.


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## Slipperdiff (4 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Changed my sons mtb from tubeless to traditional inner tubes. Reasons were random losses of tyre pressure when stored and gumming of valves that made topping up the pressure problematic. No such issues since going back to the 'old fashioned ' system.


Sort of what I'm thinking, I've already got to deal with the gummed up valve and I realise I rarely pick up punctures these days with modern protection-banded tyres (that's jinxed me!).


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## MrBeanz (4 Jul 2019)

My buddy Alex invested in some tubeless tires. He told me just the other day he's had 5 flats in the last couple of months. Not even close with the clinchers he used to ride.

The title of his Strava ride is "Not a good day, another flat". Comment on his ride reads, "sorry you had another flat".

I rode an MTB with a dude who was rolling on tubeless. He was preaching to me the benefits. One he said was less flats, then he flatted 2 minutes later. Made a mess trying to get the tire off and on.

I'm old school and not buying it yet. 

Alex and THE wheels.


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## Zipp2001 (4 Jul 2019)

I know I'm going to jinx myself but been riding trails for 6 years with no flats (old school, tubes). On my road bikes I average less than one flat a year over the last ten years (old school again). So I'll stay old school and stick with tubes.


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Jul 2019)

Cars = large air volume tyres with relatively small rim sealing circumference. Easy to seal bead & inflate from flat using compressor. Very rarely go flat, and no field repair needed because a spare wheel can be carried. No sealant required to work effectively. Large positive benefit to tubeless.

Bikes = small air volume tyres with large rim sealing circumference. More difficult to seal & inflate using hand tools. Puncture more frequently than cars and need to be field-repairable. Sealant required to be effective which can leak and cause valve problems. Benefits very questionable.

Personally, I'll be giving tubeless a miss and sticking with high puncture resistance tyres such as Schwalbe Marathon. I carry a puncture kit and hand pump, but don't expect to need it very often.


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## steveindenmark (4 Jul 2019)

I changed back to tubes as I found I got more punctures sith tubeless. I can also fix a tube with a blindfold on. Fixing tubeless is a whole new ball game. Its why tubeless riders still carry tubes.


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## PaulSB (4 Jul 2019)

I've been riding tubeless GP5000 on carbon wheels with no issues for 6 months. I've several friends with
similar experience.

Yes they lose air over a few days but that is easily corrected with a standard track pump. I've always checked tyre pressures before starting a ride so this is no additional hassle. Surely everyone does this anyway? Regular inflation negates the gummy valve issue.

I carry two tubes and have done all my life.

I think the whole debate is a matter of personal preference and experience. I've always ridden Gatorskins and still do on my other two bikes. My LBS once persuaded me to try Schwalbe Marathon, I'd gone seven years without a puncture. The Marathons punctured three times in ten days. Junk in my experience.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Cars = large air volume tyres with relatively small rim sealing circumference. Easy to seal bead & inflate from flat using compressor. Very rarely go flat, and no field repair needed because a spare wheel can be carried. No sealant required to work effectively. Large positive benefit to tubeless.
> 
> Bikes = small air volume tyres with large rim sealing circumference. More difficult to seal & inflate using hand tools. Puncture more frequently than cars and need to be field-repairable. Sealant required to be effective which can leak and cause valve problems. Benefits very questionable.
> 
> Personally, I'll be giving tubeless a miss and sticking with high puncture resistance tyres such as Schwalbe Marathon. I carry a puncture kit and hand pump, but don't expect to need it very often.



Most new cars I fix do not have a spare wheel and rely on a sealant to fix a puncture.


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## Milkfloat (4 Jul 2019)

Plenty of people for years have been more than happy with tubeless, including myself. However, like clipless pedals, STI shifters and disc brakes, some people just don’t like them of cannot get on with them. I would say that now you are setup, give it ago and see how you get on. You never know, you might actually like it.


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## PaulSB (4 Jul 2019)

As an aside on this topic. My LBS persuaded me to invest in quality carbon wheels and tubeless GP5000. Previously the freewheel down the hill in to my village was 22mph, it is now 26. The bike is 1.5kg lighter.

I have dropped my weight by 2.5kg meaning I'm pushing 4kg less. The end result is astonishing and I'm very happy with the combined investment in carbon wheels and tubeless tyres.


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## Drago (4 Jul 2019)

Zipp2001 said:


> I know I'm going to jinx myself but been riding trails for 6 years with no flats (old school, tubes). On my road bikes I average less than one flat a year over the last ten years (old school again). So I'll stay old school and stick with tubes.



9 years since a flat here  Had some close ones, but a combination of careful tyre selection, slime (on my commuter when I worked) and regular inspection of the tyres has kept the fairy at bay for nearly a decade


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## CXRAndy (4 Jul 2019)

I find its the resistance to rapid deflation the best feature. I've had two occasions where a rapid deflate could of ended up with a major crash. One time I descended a mountain with speeds over 40mph and lots of bends. The tyre got a cut but held nearly full pressure until I realised the situation. The second time I again was on a fast descent and hit a big pothole which punctured the front tyre at the rim bead, the tyre went down quickly but not instantly and I was able to control the bike and come to a stop.


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## rockpig (4 Jul 2019)

I’ve been running tubeless for the last year or so. My experience is that the type of sealant makes a difference. I’d been using Giant sealant with Giant wheels and Schwalbe Pro One tyres. I’ve had 2 punctures, both times I got home with some loss of pressure but both times the hole refused to seal permanently. I bodged a repair and ended replacing one of the tyres (expensive bodge!) Then I swapped to Stan’s Race Sealant and the other hole sealed instantly and I’ve done another 1500 miles on the tyre without problems. I will say that this sealant is more difficult to get into the tyre as it has to be poured in rather than injected through the valve, but once you get the hang of it it’s straightforward enough.
One of the nice things about tubeless is being able to run at lower pressures. 75-80psi is my new norm rather than 95-100psi with tubes. This makes a difference to the comfort and that’s a really good thing.


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## Venod (4 Jul 2019)

Slipperdiff said:


> What is your advice?



Give them a go tubeless if it doesn't work out you can always fit tubes.

There is more to tubeless than puncture sealing convenience, you can run lower pressures for more comfort and confidence when cornering, the rotating mass of the wheels is also lighter.

I don't have any wheels with tubes anymore, I have just fitted some Schwalbe G One All Round tubeless, fitted by hand, inflated easy with track pump and stayed up for 24 hours without sealant, of course I did add sealant.

Prior to these I was running some non tubeless Vittoria XN Pro CX tyres, tubeless, they had lost all their tread on the outside, but on taking them off there were was nothing stuck through the tyre, there was clumps of sealant were I presume a hole had sealed, so I I think these tyres had good protection with or without tubes.


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## steveindenmark (4 Jul 2019)

As an add on. On my Brompton I have Marathon Plus with tubes. I also have added sealant to the tubes. It really is belts and braces but its working.


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## Sharky (4 Jul 2019)

Just realised how true the saying "Can't teach an old dog new tricks" is.

I still ride HP's with tubes
Converted all my bikes back to square taper
Ride San Marco Regal saddles that had their day in the 90's
got rid of my front changers
and still riding fixed for TT's


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## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2019)

If I were you, I'd stick with tubeless, at least for a while. After all you've just obtained a bike with tubeless installed. Then make your own mind up.

After a while you will _*know*_ whether or not you want to stick with them long term and you won't have to ask a bunch of randoms on the web, some of whom may well have preconceived ideas based on no experience. You will become an actual expert. You'll be able to reply to tubeless threads with gravitas and authority. 

Having done that you can make your "stick with tubeless/go to tubes" decision based on real evidence.

Look at it as a learning opportunity.


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## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2019)

Sharky said:


> Converted all my bikes back to square taper


Not cottered cranks? 
You modernist you.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jul 2019)

Been running tubeless for 13 years after I got a bike with some tubeless rims. Had two punctures in all that time. Give it a go and see how you get on.


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## Smokin Joe (4 Jul 2019)

screenman said:


> Most new cars I fix do not have a spare wheel and rely on a sealant to fix a puncture.


I'm glad the one I own has a full size spare.


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## rugby bloke (4 Jul 2019)

My latest bike came with tubeless so its been a bit of a learning curve for me. Ridden 2500 miles on the tyres since collecting the bike last August without a problem. The front tyre did not seem to like the trip in a plane over to Spain and vented a large amount of sealant the first time I tried to pump up the tyres after I arrived. Once I had sorted that out its been smooth running since and I am loving the fact I can run them at a lower psi.


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## Jody (4 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> gumming of valves that made topping up the pressure problematic. .



What sealant were you using for the valves to clog up?


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## Slipperdiff (4 Jul 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> If I were you, I'd stick with tubeless, at least for a while. After all you've just obtained a bike with tubeless installed. Then make your own mind up.
> 
> After a while you will _*know*_ whether or not you want to stick with them long term and you won't have to ask a bunch of randoms on the web, some of whom may well have preconceived ideas based on no experience. You will become an actual expert. You'll be able to reply to tubeless threads with gravitas and authority.
> 
> ...



Not quite "randoms", I hope! I'm well aware that riders with a neutral view will probably not be motivated to respond to my question and I'm pleased to get opinions from both ends of the experience spectrum. It seems to me that if you have the "right" tubeless-ready wheels with the "right" tyres and the "right" sealant then it should be a good experience. I've learnt quite a bit since picking the bike up yesterday morning... not yet enough to become the Oracle of Tubeless, but who knows... 
I will give them a try.


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## screenman (4 Jul 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'm glad the one I own has a full size spare.



Me too but on 20,000 miles a year I have only used the spare once in 30 years and maybe a couple in the 16 years before that. There again I was more than likely running Dunlop Kojaks back in the seventies.


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## Milzy (4 Jul 2019)

Tubeless for life. 
No punctures ever.


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## Venod (4 Jul 2019)

The Qushqai didn't have a spare and I never had to use the sealant thingy, it had pressure sensors and they indicated one of the tyres was loosing about 2 psi in a month, I took the valve out and injected some Stans sealant, no more pressure drop.


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## Smokin Joe (4 Jul 2019)

screenman said:


> Me too but on 20,000 miles a year I have only used the spare once in 30 years and maybe a couple in the 16 years before that. There again I was more than likely running Dunlop Kojaks back in the seventies.


Years back I had a number of pupils on an estate where more building was in progress. With no exaggeration I had six punctures within a six month period, all from screws and nails. I ended up being able to change a wheel quicker than an F1 pit crew.


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## Pedropete (4 Jul 2019)

Assuming the rims are tubeless compatible too, check that they're taped properly and give tubeless a go. Just use a decent sealant and remember to top it up! How often will depend on which sealant; Stan's is notorious for drying out quickly, Schwalbe Doc Blue is just rebadged Stan's, Finish Line is over priced snake oil and Magic Milk seems to vary by batch.

I've had best results with Orange Seal Endurance, which lasts so long I got a bit slack this year and forgot to check the level in the Spring. Meaning that when I managed to burp my rear tyre on a pothole last week and break the seal, it went down fast and wouldn't re-seal as there was no liquid sealant left in the tyre, because I'm a muppet. Nothing an emergency tube didn't sort, briefly, before the valve stem cracked at the base and I had a sweary three mile trudge to the LBS for a replacement, because the tube was old and buggered and, again, I'm a muppet.

All you'll need to carry in addition to your normal repair kit and spare tubes is a tubeless plug kit and insertion tool (super cheap and tiny) and a tyre boot if you don't already carry one. If the damage is too much for decent sealant to fix there's a good chance it'll need booting before you put a tube in anyway.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jul 2019)

Been riding tubeless for a month now, and this week I've had two punctures front and rear, both would not seal properly. So still experimenting with this, might not have been enough sealant ( holes were not that big ) or not very good sealant ( bought from Decathlon ). Looks also like I best buy some plugs and tyre boot as well. Have to say if I can sort this out, the tubeless tyres do roll very well, even the gravel type I'm running just now are pretty fast rolling on all surfaces.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Jul 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> this week I've had two punctures front and rear, both would not seal properly. So still experimenting with this, might not have been enough sealant ( holes were not that big ) or not very good sealant ( bought from Decathlon ). Looks also like I best buy some plugs and tyre boot as well..



I'd buy some inner tubes and fit those instead if I were you.


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## Venod (6 Jul 2019)

I am always interested in what sealant people use, I have used Stans mostly, I did try some Peaty but found it too bitty, it tended to clog the valve, I am currently trying some Effetto, I will also have to try some Orange Seal Endurance which seems to have a long life, I tend to forget to top up.

Rim tape also is of interest, the first tubeless I fitted I used a 20" tube split lengthwise on non tubeless rims, it worked great, I have since used Stans and the same stuff as Stans but much cheaper on a big roll off eBay, the worst I have used is Gorilla tape, it does the job and seals well, but getting it off the rim is a PITA.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'd buy some inner tubes and fit those instead if I were you.


Because you never get punctures with inner tubes :-)


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## jiberjaber (6 Jul 2019)

Give this a read through, seems to be one of the most comprehensive collections of Tubeless info I've come across to date. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/tech-page

Effetto sealant for me and tyre worms. The times I've had to use an inner tube have all been because I had no sealant left in the tyre - an oversight on my behalf. With the exception of my Brompton, all my bikes are tubeless. Its very enjoyable to run tyres a good 30psi lower than you might be used to over long distances.

Give it a go, expect it to be a bit different to the usual inner tube approach, so don't let any initial learning experiences put you off but if you decide you want to go back to tubes - well no harm in trying tubeless!

One thing I would say - if you don't ride very often then tubeless might not be for you (i.e. you have a bike hanging up for a month or so and then go for a ride...) as it possible would be easy to forget how long it was since last topped up with sealant and any long time not ridden may result in lost air which in the extreme might also result in the tyre becoming unseated and accelerating the sealant drying out. Mine usually deflate to around 30psi and sit there, the rim usually stays on the rim as teh sealant inside does a good job of gluing it there - but that's just my experience.


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## Pedropete (6 Jul 2019)

Afnug said:


> I am always interested in what sealant people use, I have used Stans mostly, I did try some Peaty but found it too bitty, it tended to clog the valve, I am currently trying some Effetto, I will also have to try some Orange Seal Endurance which seems to have a long life, I tend to forget to top up.


I think Peaty's is intended more for MTB use, i.e. much higher volume and lower pressure, hence the bigger particles. I did try some Effetto when the LBS had it on offer and found that while it sealed okayish it didn't last long at all, so keep an eye on the level!



Afnug said:


> Rim tape also is of interest, the first tubeless I fitted I used a 20" tube split lengthwise on non tubeless rims, it worked great, I have since used Stans and the same stuff as Stans but much cheaper on a big roll off eBay, the worst I have used is Gorilla tape, it does the job and seals well, but getting it off the rim is a PITA.


Yep, took me the best part of an afternoon to clean the rims after I used gorilla tape! The ebay Tessa tape option is definitely the most cost effective option.


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## lane (6 Jul 2019)

Put my tubeless on in Feb I think. Put stans race sealent in because had read it was the best. Then read it drys out more quickly and can't put through the valve. Had a look the other day by breaking the seal - so got to be four months on - and not dried out at all that I could see. Put a bit more in anyway - took about 5 mins. Left the back tyre because seemed like it would also be ok for a while. Can't report on puncture effectiveness as don't seem to have had one but is rated highly - and is expensive.

Tip - when parking bike turn wheel so valve is at top should stop problems with the valve gumming.


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## Justinitus (6 Jul 2019)

jiberjaber said:


> Give this a read through, seems to be one of the most comprehensive collections of Tubeless info I've come across to date. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/tech-page
> 
> Effetto sealant for me and tyre worms. The times I've had to use an inner tube have all been because I had no sealant left in the tyre - an oversight on my behalf. With the exception of my Brompton, all my bikes are tubeless. Its very enjoyable to run tyres a good 30psi lower than you might be used to over long distances.
> 
> ...



I’ve just got my first tubeless bike (Giant Revolt) and I’m running 700x38c Hutchinson Overides. Still experimenting with pressures - currently 60psi rear and 45psi front. What pressures are you running out of interest? (Assuming similar size tyre!)


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## Venod (7 Jul 2019)

Justinitus said:


> What pressures are you running out of interest? (Assuming similar size tyre!)



700 x 38 Schwalbe G One Allround, actually measure 40 when fitted. 45 psi rear 40 psi front.


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## Justinitus (7 Jul 2019)

Afnug said:


> 700 x 38 Schwalbe G One Allround, actually measure 40 when fitted. 45 psi rear 40 psi front.



Mine come up at 39mm. I’m 98kg (15.4 stone) riding mainly poorly surfaced roads and bridleways. Do you think I should drop the psi?


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## Venod (7 Jul 2019)

Justinitus said:


> Do you think I should drop the psi?



I weigh about 12.5 stone so may get away with lower pressure than you, it depends what it feels like when riding, you can always lower it and see how it feels.


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## bladesman73 (7 Jul 2019)

Whats is the point of tubeless on race bikes unless you are racing? I dont care about a bit less rolling resistance and that I can ride using lower tyre pressures I do care about messing up my wheels with sealant that splurges all over the place on occasion. Funny thing is the ones I know who are tubeless always carry a tube with them. Just give it up!


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Whats is the point of tubeless on race bikes unless you are racing?


Typically racers use tubular tyres, not tubeless. A whole different kettle of fish.


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## bladesman73 (7 Jul 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Typically racers use tubular tyres, not tubeless. A whole different kettle of fish.


Yep. The pros use tubulars. Dont understand the need for tubeless. Too much of a faff.


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## wonderloaf (7 Jul 2019)

Afnug said:


> 700 x 38 Schwalbe G One Allround, actually measure 40 when fitted. 45 psi rear 40 psi front.


I also ride 700 x 38 Schwalbe G One Allround's as 'ghetto' tubeless, 45 psi front and rear on the road, although if I'm going off-road reduce it down to ~40 psi.


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## lane (7 Jul 2019)

There is a little bit of a learning curve as with many new things but after that what faff? In five months I have spent literally five minutes checking if my sealent needed topping up - it didn't. If it saved me mending a puncture then it has saved me faff.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Yep. The pros use tubulars. Dont understand the need for tubeless. Too much of a faff.


Personally I've never tried it, so I'm in no position to comment. I may give it a go one day - perhaps when my rims next wear out.

But if it's good enough for Steve Abraham ...


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## Milkfloat (7 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Whats is the point of tubeless on race bikes unless you are racing? I dont care about a bit less rolling resistance and that I can ride using lower tyre pressures I do care about messing up my wheels with sealant that splurges all over the place on occasion. Funny thing is the ones I know who are tubeless always carry a tube with them. Just give it up!



Yawn!


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## Jody (7 Jul 2019)

Why do you get the impression it's the people who haven't tried it that are so opposed to it.


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## bladesman73 (7 Jul 2019)

Jody said:


> Why do you get the impression it's the people who haven't tried it that are so opposed to it.


Dont need to try it. Seen so many mates use them and its not worth the hassle for such a small gain. Who wants to be riding with loads of sealant in their tyres which then sometimes doesnt do the job its supposed to do anyway. Seen so many people calling home for a lift who forgot to take a tube with them, got a puncture, and the sealant didnt work as quickly as needed.


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## bladesman73 (7 Jul 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> Yawn!


Yep you bore me as well


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## Milkfloat (7 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Dont need to try it. Seen so many mates use them and its not worth the hassle for such a small gain. Who wants to be riding with loads of sealant in their tyres which then sometimes doesnt do the job its supposed to do anyway. Seen so many people calling home for a lift who forgot to take a tube with them, got a puncture, and the sealant didnt work as quickly as needed.



Just because your mates are not capable of running tubeless does not mean that others should not if they want to.


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## HLaB (7 Jul 2019)

I changed my tubeless tyres last week for new 5000 tubeless. I had forgotten how much of a faff it was to set up but I can't recall it being a faff to maintain and it certainly wasn't on this long weekend's trip to Flanders and I am glad I continued.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Yep. The pros use tubulars. Dont understand the need for tubeless. Too much of a faff.



Correct me if I'm wrong but the pros have a car following and any problems a guy fits a new wheel for them in seconds. What the pros do has very little bearing on what works best for the rest of us,


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## HLaB (8 Jul 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> Been riding tubeless for a month now, and this week I've had two punctures front and rear, both would not seal properly. So still experimenting with this, might not have been enough sealant ( holes were not that big ) or not very good sealant ( bought from Decathlon ). Looks also like I best buy some plugs and tyre boot as well. Have to say if I can sort this out, the tubeless tyres do roll very well, even the gravel type I'm running just now are pretty fast rolling on all surfaces.


I used finishline sealant for a while and it was a disaster, touchwood Joes/Stans are working better.


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## wonderloaf (8 Jul 2019)

I've been using Orange Endurance sealant for the last 4 months/1200 miles, in that time I've had one puncture (rear) that I didn't even know about, only found out about it when doing a really careful inspection of the tyres yesterday using a magnifying glass! I don't recall getting any punctures (no noises, sealant squirting everywhere or loss of pressure) so the Orange sealant must have sealed the the hole immediately. Seems to be doing it's job so I'm sticking with it for the moment!
Prior to that used Decathlon sealant which did seal a couple of holes in the front tyre, but had to keep moving to keep the sealant on the outer surface. Lost a bit of pressure but once the holes were sealed all was good.


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## Pale Rider (8 Jul 2019)

I was getting occasional punctures in my Schwalbe Moto X tyres, but have had no ride stopping deflations since going tubeless.

A puncture on a heavy ebike is more of a faff, so that weighs the time/trouble equation more in favour of tubeless.

On t'other hand, I had no punctures in Marathon Pluses on the previous bike, so quite happy to stick with tubes in those.


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## tincaman (8 Jul 2019)

Hadn't used my bike for a month and the front tyre was flat, pumped it up and air was hissing out of the side wall from a tiny hole. Took the wheel off and rotated the puncture to the bottom, bumped the wheel up and down a couple of times to get the sealant moving and instant seal! Well impressed. This was using OKO high fibre magic milk from PX, currently £7.99 for a litre. Its not latex based so it doesn't dry up.


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## bladesman73 (8 Jul 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the pros have a car following and any problems a guy fits a new wheel for them in seconds. What the pros do has very little bearing on what works best for the rest of us,


From what ive seen many tubeless riders need a support vehicle if they get a puncture, the sealant fails and they dont have a tube on them.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> From what ive seen many tubeless riders need a support vehicle if they get a puncture, the sealant fails and they dont have a tube on them.



Seen spare tubes fail and riders being clueless about patching, that's if they brought any patches. A lot of tube riders need a support van!


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## lane (8 Jul 2019)

If the sealent fails I would try a worm. If that failed put a tube in. Had someone recently with no experience of tubeless saying how rubish it is and how good his marathon plus tyres are.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> From what ive seen many tubeless riders need a support vehicle if they get a puncture, the sealant fails and they dont have a tube on them.


Whereas of course if when I get a puncture with ordinary clinchers and don't have a spare tube with me, I'm absolutely fine.


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## HLaB (9 Jul 2019)

https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/ne...xperiment-with-tires-at-tour-de-france_495877


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## lane (9 Jul 2019)

HLaB said:


> https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/ne...xperiment-with-tires-at-tour-de-france_495877



Some questionable points there but I do agree wider with lower pressure will work best for tubeless. I run 32mm with 60PSI.


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## MrGrumpy (9 Jul 2019)

HLaB said:


> I used finishline sealant for a while and it was a disaster, touchwood Joes/Stans are working better.


Stans orange sealant stuff seems to work according to reliable source who was into tubeless early days. He has tried a few but that one gets the thumbs up ! The Decathlon stuff works initially just seems very ineffective with punctures .


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## Smokin Joe (9 Jul 2019)

It is in the industry's interests to push the use of tubeless tyres in the pro peloton. They are in racing to generate sales to the rest of us, and tubulars are a dead duck in that respect because only the pros and top amateurs use them now, the days when even the lowliest club racer considered sprints and tubs as essential equipment have long gone.

Tubeless will improve to the point where the current problems people complain about have gone and they will be used as a matter of course, but they ain't close enough yet to tempt me.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Jul 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> It is in the industry's interests to push the use of tubeless tyres in the pro peloton. They are in racing to generate sales to the rest of us, and tubulars are a dead duck in that respect because only the pros and top amateurs use them now, the days when even the lowliest club racer considered sprints and tubs as essential equipment have long gone.
> 
> Tubeless will improve to the point where the current problems people complain about have gone and they will be used as a matter of course, but they ain't close enough yet to tempt me.


Where will the sales come from though? It's not like disk brakes where you buy some lovely shiny expensive kit. All you need are some rims (which you're likely to need anyway) and substitute one type of tyre for another, plus some bits and bobs like sealant. 

I can't see how it would be a massive money spinner for them. But I suppose anything that keeps people buying stuff, even if it is relatively cheap stuff, keeps the business going.

My next set of rims will be tubeless ready, to give me the opportunity to experiment if I want to.


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## bladesman73 (9 Jul 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Whereas of course if when I get a puncture with ordinary clinchers and don't have a spare tube with me, I'm absolutely fine.


Well if you have a tubed set up and dont take a spare or at least a repair kit with you then of course thats stupid. However im stating that i have seen a few guys with tubeless tyres who have been stuck at the side of the road cos the sealant has failed and they dont carry spare tubes, cos they think the sealant is faultless


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## Milkfloat (9 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Well if you have a tubed set up and dont take a spare or at least a repair kit with you then of course thats stupid. However im stating that i have seen a few guys with tubeless tyres who have been stuck at the side of the road cos the sealant has failed and they dont carry spare tubes, cos they think the sealant is faultless



That is not a reason to ditch tubeless, it is a reason to be a bit prepared.


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## Drago (9 Jul 2019)

But if you're carrying a spare tube anyway...


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## DRHysted (9 Jul 2019)

Mixed results here. Tubeless didn’t work on the cyclocross bike. Tubeless faultless on the MTB. 
Yes I carry a spare tube and tyre boot on the MTB to cover sidewall damage, same as I do the cyclocross. I carry worms for when I have a puncture that the sealant can’t cope with on the MTB, haven’t used them yet.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Jul 2019)

I just can't see tubeless ever becoming reliable enough to be able to trust it on high pressure road tyres, without carrying tubes and repair kit as back-up, which rather defeats the object of going tubeless. The problem seems to be that the sealant won't coagulate because there is enough air pressure behind it to force it through the hole whilst still liquid.
MTB users tend to report better results because their tyres only run at half the pressure and have two or three times more air volume, so the leak will seal faster and a small loss of pressure won't risk unseating the tyre off the rim. 
The industry will push tubeless for the same reason they push 11 speed and disc brakes - because they are constantly fighting a battle to make cyclists update and replace serviceable equipment that doesn't actually need to be updated. The industry don't like cyclists like me who will buy something just the once then keep running it for years and years without replacing it with something different and putting more money in their pockets. 
Bicycles are a mature technology and had already reached a level of development which gave mechanical durability and reliability decades ago, at which point many riders will just stick with what they have. Rigid steel frames don't wear out, so once the market is saturated with rim-braked rigid Road, Hybrid, and MTB's, sales are pretty much limited to maintenance parts. All the recent industry trends are aimed at displacing the low-revenue type of bikes with ones that offer a more frequent replacement/upgrade cycle, and more expensive maintenance parts pricing. Tubeless is part of this strategy.


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## Mo1959 (10 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> If the sealent fails I would try a worm. If that failed put a tube in.


One problem is some of the rim/tyre combinations are so bleeding tight I couldn't put a tube in! My new Ribble has Mavic Ksyrium Elite's with the UST rim and came with Mavic tyres which I didn't particularly want so first thing I wanted to do was put Rubino Pros on. I couldn't get the tyres off! I ended up cutting one off and nearly damaging the wheel so had to take the other to a bike shop. Never had to do that in my life. My hands were still red and blistered the next day and the bead was so tight I couldn't even get a tyre lever under it. God knows how the bike shop managed reasonably quickly. No doubt they have better levers for awkward tyres.


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## screenman (10 Jul 2019)

bladesman73 said:


> Well if you have a tubed set up and dont take a spare or at least a repair kit with you then of course thats stupid. However im stating that i have seen a few guys with tubeless tyres who have been stuck at the side of the road cos the sealant has failed and they dont carry spare tubes, cos they think the sealant is faultless



That is not the tool but the tool using the tool being the problem.


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## screenman (10 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I just can't see tubeless ever becoming reliable enough to be able to trust it on high pressure road tyres, without carrying tubes and repair kit as back-up, which rather defeats the object of going tubeless. The problem seems to be that the sealant won't coagulate because there is enough air pressure behind it to force it through the hole whilst still liquid.
> MTB users tend to report better results because their tyres only run at half the pressure and have two or three times more air volume, so the leak will seal faster and a small loss of pressure won't risk unseating the tyre off the rim.
> The industry will push tubeless for the same reason they push 11 speed and disc brakes - because they are constantly fighting a battle to make cyclists update and replace serviceable equipment that doesn't actually need to be updated. The industry don't like cyclists like me who will buy something just the once then keep running it for years and years without replacing it with something different and putting more money in their pockets.
> Bicycles are a mature technology and had already reached a level of development which gave mechanical durability and reliability decades ago, at which point many riders will just stick with what they have. Rigid steel frames don't wear out, so once the market is saturated with rim-braked rigid Road, Hybrid, and MTB's, sales are pretty much limited to maintenance parts. All the recent industry trends are aimed at displacing the low-revenue type of bikes with ones that offer a more frequent replacement/upgrade cycle, and more expensive maintenance parts pricing. Tubeless is part of this strategy.



Out of interest take away all these things and what would you do for a job?


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## lane (10 Jul 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> One problem is some of the rim/tyre combinations are so bleeding tight I couldn't put a tube in! My new Ribble has Mavic Ksyrium Elite's with the UST rim and came with Mavic tyres which I didn't particularly want so first thing I wanted to do was put Rubino Pros on. I couldn't get the tyres off! I ended up cutting one off and nearly damaging the wheel so had to take the other to a bike shop. Never had to do that in my life. My hands were still red and blistered the next day and the bead was so tight I couldn't even get a tyre lever under it. God knows how the bike shop managed reasonably quickly. No doubt they have better levers for awkward tyres.



Yes I know someone who gave up on tubeless for the same reason. Hence I said in my first post in this thread that tyre / rim combination are important. I know I could get my tyre off and put a tube in with relative ease should I need to. But have read on other forums some people having problems with GP5000 being tight.

The cycle clinic linked to earlier on this thread says if you can get them on without levers they are probably not secure. I can with mine so not entirely sure in what way they would not be secure? do they mean blow offs - there is another thread on here re GP5000 blow offs. However I run mine at 60psi and they seem fine. 

I have had tubes tyres harder to get on and off the rim.


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## Venod (10 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I just can't see tubeless ever becoming reliable enough to be able to trust it on high pressure road tyres, without carrying tubes and repair kit as back-up, which rather defeats the object of going tubeless.



Non of my tubeless road tyres are run with more than 50 psi, but the smallest is 32 mm, I don't know how high pressure smaller tubeless are run at but as I have said before there is more to tubeless than puncture convienience. lower pressure = more comfort, less rotating weight, more confidence for the rider. I don't see the point in running tubeless at high pressure, so if tubeless don't work at high pressures stick to tubes, vehicle tyres are tubeless, they used to have tubes, they still carry spare wheels or repair kits, its common sense, I don't see how carrying repair options defeats the object.



SkipdiverJohn said:


> Rigid steel frames don't wear out,



I like a nice steel frame and have run a few, but surely you have seen example's of well rusted unusable frames, I have seen cracked and fatigued Aluminium, cracked Titanium, Carbon Fibre in 2 pieces, all have their good and bad points.


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## Milkfloat (10 Jul 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> One problem is some of the rim/tyre combinations are so bleeding tight I couldn't put a tube in! My new Ribble has Mavic Ksyrium Elite's with the UST rim and came with Mavic tyres which I didn't particularly want so first thing I wanted to do was put Rubino Pros on. I couldn't get the tyres off! I ended up cutting one off and nearly damaging the wheel so had to take the other to a bike shop. Never had to do that in my life. My hands were still red and blistered the next day and the bead was so tight I couldn't even get a tyre lever under it. God knows how the bike shop managed reasonably quickly. No doubt they have better levers for awkward tyres.



Did you try standing on the tyre near the bead? A workshop option can be to use a vice or pump pliers. To be honest I have never had to resort to these options, even with some incredibly tight rim/tyre combinations.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Jul 2019)

Seems to me that the arguments _against_ are just general railing against the new. Old man yells at cloud.

On the other hand, the arguments _for _aren't exactly convincing to me. I don't have any problem with punctures, as I ride Durano Plus and pretty much never get punctures. (Maybe one every 5,000km or so, plus a couple of bead failures that I've discussed on here in the past). Lower pressures might be interesting to try. But as I generally can't tell the difference between one kind of tyre and another I fear that my arse may be too insensitive to notice. Also I can't run anything bigger than 28mm on my bike, because I steadfastly refuse to remove the mudguards so that may limit the benefits.

Cost wise, it seems pretty neutral. You still need to buy rims and tyres which is the major outlay. For obsessive penny pinchers the sealant might add up to a fraction of a penny per km or something like that. Offset that against reduced outlay on expensive patches and tubes of rubber solution that dry up for fixing punctured tubes and your fractional penny balance may change a bit.

I'm still curious about them, but my rims (Mavic Open Pro) aren't suitable (at least not without serious bodgery - or so I read). I'll have to wait until my rim walls start getting worn and start looking to see what I want my next wheels built with.


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## wonderloaf (10 Jul 2019)

For me the over riding benefit of tubeless is one of safety, if I pick up a puncture whilst on a descent then the tubeless setup at least hopefully gives a gradual deflation (depending on hole size) allowing a more controlled stop, especially so if the puncture is on the front tyre. I've had snakebite punctures with tubes a couple of time on downhills but luckily they were on the rear so not so serious although still unnerving! Hate to think what would have happened if they were on the front.
That said if the puncture is so large that the tubeless sealant cannot seal it then you're possibly in trouble, but then a tube set up wouldn't be any better anyway.
Setting up the tubeless tyres is a bit more hassle but now I know the pitfalls the process is much easier and think the extra time spent is worth it bearing in mind the safety aspects above.
I still carry a couple of spare tubes and a puncture repair outfit whether riding tubed or tubeless, just in case though!


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Jul 2019)

Tubes get pinched in tyres, they puncture from the smallest bits of glass, patching them is a nightmare in the rain, valves break away. You put tubes back in and they puncture from something you didn't spot. They puncture from the tiniest slit in a tyre. Hit a pothole they puncture. Puncture proof tyres are a nightmare to get on and off, often breaking tyre levers. Puncture proof tyres have a dead feeling, it's like riding on solid cardboard. Why on earth do people bother with the hassle of tubes?


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## Ajax Bay (10 Jul 2019)

wonderloaf said:


> if I pick up a puncture whilst on a descent then the tubeless setup at least hopefully gives a gradual deflation (depending on hole size) allowing a more controlled stop, especially so if the puncture is on the front tyre. I've had snakebite punctures with tubes a couple of time on downhills but luckily they were on the rear so not so serious although still unnerving! Hate to think what would have happened if they were on the front.


My 'off' in 2017 was an instaneous puncture downhill (one chevron) at speed (slightly bending road) at 199km into a 300km audax. It did not end well: memory stops, endo, broken shoulder blade, ribs, punctured lung, unconscious for several (or more minutes), air and road ambulance discussing where and whether by road or air, intensive care - 2 days. [Riding on the turbo in a week, and completed a 200k audax 3 months later (so all good).]
My posts describing/discussing the accident are here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/t...challenge-chatzone.95264/page-84#post-4950192
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/t...challenge-chatzone.95264/page-85#post-4952273
Happily, my bike was almost unscathed. The* inner tube had a major snakebite in it: 11mm on one side and 9mm on the other*, which will have caused/allowed the near instantaneous deflation I remember. There was a significant dink in one side of the rim where the puncture was. And there was damage to the left hand rim edge for about a third of the circumference, consistent with the rim attempting to roll on the road surface before saying ‘enough’. There was damage to the tyre sidewall in this area too. Inspecting the hill a month later (when I could drive!), the surface was fine (ie no potholes or the like), the light was fine and I was concentrating, on the drops, down that hill (with half a dozen others riders coming down behind me - who were quick to call 999 - thank you).
Full analysis post: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/big-offs.224746/post-4987009
To add: I used a Joe Blow track pump to inflate my tyres (the night before). Subsequent checking suggests that the gauge on that pump reads about 10psi high (using a reliable tyre pressure gauge to calibrate it against) so it's possible that might be how my tube had less than the required pressure in, increasing the risk of a snakebite. Or I might have lost pressure during the 199km of riding that day.
Still on tubes: still on the wheel, although I've laced a new rim on, but I do put an 'extra' 5psi in the front, and the Joe Blow pump is used for car tyre checks/top-ups.


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## Slipperdiff (23 Jul 2019)

In the end I swapped the tubeless tyres for new Schwalbe Duranos with Conti race tubes.

I thought I might 'have a go' tubeless but the mess inside the tyres when they finally came off was not pretty and more importantly, incredibly tenacious to remove. The bike had not been used for well over a year. I spent 90 minutes scrubbing and rubbing the residue on one tyre and even then I didn't get it all off. 
OK - I know some will say you don't need to get it all off - but there was so much of it in the tyre, surely it must have to get removed eventually.

The bike goes well on the new set-up but I would like to try the tubeless route, perhaps I need a spare set of TLR wheels so I can do a side-by-side.
Still have to find time to clean the gunk off the other tubeless tyre, though...


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## MrGrumpy (23 Jul 2019)

No idea why you need to remove the residue from inside ?? I’m still early stages of tubeless myself and was not sold after getting two punctures that would not seal!? So have now switched to different sealant, see how we get on with that.


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## HLaB (23 Jul 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> No idea why you need to remove the residue from inside ?? I’m still early stages of tubeless myself and was not sold after getting two punctures that would not seal!? So have now switched to different sealant, see how we get on with that.


Sealant is definitely a issue IME, I found the finishline sealant terrible, for the few months I used it it'd fail to seal tiny p'tures (I couldn't even see) and gradually I lose pressure then hit a small bump (like a cateye) and the whole tyre would unseat. Touch wood I've had no such problems with Stan's/Joe's.


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## MrGrumpy (24 Jul 2019)

The Decathlon stuff I had was sealing nothing at all !! Found a small thorn in the tyre and it just was not sealing it. Trying stans race stuff so will see how we get on. Really want to find a good combination as the wheels roll so much better with no tubes. Lower pressure options is great as well without worrying about pinch punctures etc !


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## CXRAndy (24 Jul 2019)

I use either Stans sealant. of my favourite Orange. Remember to put enough in 75 mil for 25 mm tyre

Im getting some new G Ones with tan walls in 40mm. These are not tubeless ready, but im confident they will work just as well as their tubeless model. A tad more sealant to coat the inside


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## wonderloaf (24 Jul 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I use either Stans sealant. of my favourite Orange. Remember to put enough in 75 mil for 25 mm tyre
> 
> Im getting some new G Ones with tan walls in 40mm. These are not tubeless ready, but im confident they will work just as well as their tubeless model. A tad more sealant to coat the inside


I've been using regular tan wall 40mm folding G Ones on regular Aksium rims for over a 1000 miles now, had a few small punctures that sealed themselves. Initially I used Decathlon sealant which sealed a couple of glass punctures but was slow to work but did it's job eventually. I'm now using Orange Seal Endurance, 2oz in each tyre. Recently had puncture I didn't even know about until I was inspecting the tyre at home, so guess it's working!


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## MrGrumpy (24 Jul 2019)

Wondering if I’m not been using enough sealant ?? Decathlon sealant was next to useless for me ??


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## Slipperdiff (31 Jul 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> No idea why you need to remove the residue from inside ?? I’m still early stages of tubeless myself and was not sold after getting two punctures that would not seal!? So have now switched to different sealant, see how we get on with that.



When I saw this, I couldn't just leave it festering inside the tyre. The sealant clearly goes off over time - in this tyre it had puddled and set which probably did no favours for the balance of the wheel/tyre combo. I'm not confident the 'set' sealant would be effective in sealing punctures once it is this old. Clearly, fresh liquid sealant is what the system is designed to use.
The other 26mm Bontrager R3 TLR hard case tyre was muckier still.


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## Waterwheel (31 Jul 2019)

I have always thought that tubeless tyres are one of the most stupid things ever invented. And as shown above the sealant eventually goes off so it wont automatically repair a puncture. They are also hard to fit and inflate. I think you need to wet the tyre first with soapy water before mounting it on the wheel and then give it a really huge blast of air or it will not inflate at all. So that rules out those portable pocket pumps. I would much more reccomend those polyurathane foam tyres like Green Tyre which orginally came out 30 years ago. But have now improve a hell of a lot so that they are now on a par with pneumatic tyres.


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## DRHysted (31 Jul 2019)

Waterwheel said:


> I have always thought that tubeless tyres are one of the most stupid things ever invented. And as shown above the sealant eventually goes off so it wont automatically repair a puncture. They are also hard to fit and inflate. I think you need to wet the tyre first with soapy water before mounting it on the wheel and then give it a really huge blast of air or it will not inflate at all. So that rules out those portable pocket pumps. I would much more reccomend those polyurathane foam tyres like Green Tyre which orginally came out 30 years ago. But have now improve a hell of a lot so that they are now on a par with pneumatic tyres.



Pretty much everything you’ve typed is the opposite of my experience of fitting and using tubeless on my MTB.


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## Jody (31 Jul 2019)

Waterwheel said:


> I have always thought that tubeless tyres are one of the most stupid things ever invented.



They are far from the stupidest things ever invented.



Waterwheel said:


> And as shown above the sealant eventually goes off so it wont automatically repair a puncture.



Top up sealant once every six months or so. It's a 4-5 minute job.



Waterwheel said:


> They are also hard to fit and inflate. I think you need to wet the tyre first with soapy water before mounting it on the wheel and then give it a really huge blast of air or it will not inflate at all.



I had to do neither. Went on dry and inflated on a track pump. Depends on what rim and tyre combo you run


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## wonderloaf (31 Jul 2019)

And


Waterwheel said:


> I have always thought that tubeless tyres are one of the most stupid things ever invented. And as shown above the sealant eventually goes off so it wont automatically repair a puncture. They are also hard to fit and inflate. I think you need to wet the tyre first with soapy water before mounting it on the wheel and then give it a really huge blast of air or it will not inflate at all. So that rules out those portable pocket pumps. I would much more reccomend those polyurathane foam tyres like Green Tyre which orginally came out 30 years ago. But have now improve a hell of a lot so that they are now on a par with pneumatic tyres.


Seeing as you are recommending the polyurethane foam tyres I'm guessing that you've actually tried them?


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## lane (31 Jul 2019)

Waterwheel said:


> I have always thought that tubeless tyres are one of the most stupid things ever invented. And as shown above the sealant eventually goes off so it wont automatically repair a puncture. They are also hard to fit and inflate. I think you need to wet the tyre first with soapy water before mounting it on the wheel and then give it a really huge blast of air or it will not inflate at all. So that rules out those portable pocket pumps. I would much more reccomend those polyurathane foam tyres like Green Tyre which orginally came out 30 years ago. But have now improve a hell of a lot so that they are now on a par with pneumatic tyres.



Before I tried tubeless I was impressed that Steve Abrahams (1 year time trial) and Mike Lane (audax champion three years running) both used tubeless. Between then they would have cycled maybe 200,000 km or more on tubeless. How does your experience compare and how many KMs do you ride per year?


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## MrGrumpy (31 Jul 2019)

Going to be honest I’ve had another setback with mine, had another puncture that would not seal but was quite a big hole. 
Anyway to make matters worse , my rear wheel is crackered. Lost two spokes recently, hub has a hell of a lot of play and have a big ding in my rim. Granted the ding is just one of those things. The hubs worn out and spokes breaking well I think it’s new wheel time.
A bit disappointing oh and brand is Hunt , maybe the marketing got the better of me :-/


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## Waterwheel (31 Jul 2019)

I have used the polyurathane foam tyres and really like them. At first the tyres felt a bit dead. But after a week of riding on them I didnt notice any major difference and they hardly wore either. I have read a lot of bad reviews about tubeless tyres but never tried them. The reason being I dont think that they are any good. Especially if you get a big puncture that the sealant wont fix.


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## MrGrumpy (1 Aug 2019)

Still require a tube to carry around for larger holes , I`m still prepared to continue with them as the ride quality is much better.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Aug 2019)

That's the second time on this thread that someone with no experience of tubeless has noted that they can be defeated by large objects that cut the tyre, and claimed that as some kind of drawback. Well, no sheet Sherlock. If you go out riding on any kind of pneumatic clincher tyres and you are not equipped with a spare tube, and preferably also a tyre boot, then you are an idiot (or maybe have a support vehicle or don't mind walking).

I'm interested in hearing people's experiences - good and bad - of tubeless tyres. I'm less interested in uninformed opinions. I have plenty of those of my own.

When I next need my wheels rebuilt (I'm running a pair of relatively new Mavic Open Pros at the moment so it'll be a while) I'll probably get some compatible rims and experiment with tubeless. Then, and only then, I'll be qualified to comment.

TBH I'm more swayed by Steve Abraham's experience than anything I've read on here.


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## Drago (1 Aug 2019)

I prefer to be swayed by my own experience, simply because my needs, preferences, and tolerance for faffing will be completely different to someone else's.

I went back to tubed for no other reason that it suited me better. Many people stick with tubeless because it suits them better. Arguing or trying to persuade someone else otherwise is pointless - what works for them is what matters.


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## lane (1 Aug 2019)

Drago said:


> I prefer to be swayed by my own experience, simply because my needs, preferences, and tolerance for faffing will be completely different to someone else's.
> 
> I went back to tubed for no other reason that it suited me better. Many people stick with tubeless because it suits them better. Arguing or trying to persuade someone else otherwise is pointless - what works for them is what matters.



I agree. However providing information regarding your own experience of using tubeless (what worked and what didn't) may be helpful for others who are considering changing or have already changed. Saying it is terrible when you have no experience not so much.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Aug 2019)

Drago said:


> I prefer to be swayed by my own experience, simply because my needs, preferences, and tolerance for faffing will be completely different to someone else's.
> 
> I went back to tubed for no other reason that it suited me better. Many people stick with tubeless because it suits them better. Arguing or trying to persuade someone else otherwise is pointless - what works for them is what matters.


That post is so reasonable it has no place on Cycle Chat. I'm especially surprised it was you, hang your head in shame.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Aug 2019)

Has anyone tried quantum tubeless? It is tubeless and tubes at the same time, and only manifests into one or the other when you take the tyre off.


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## AlanW (1 Aug 2019)

My experience going back to 2016 - https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/audaxing-with-tubeless.199241/#post-4242907


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## Tenkaykev (1 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Has anyone tried quantum tubeless? It is tubeless and tubes at the same time, and only manifests into one or the other when you take the tyre off.



Schrodinger tubeless is another brand name that they go by.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Has anyone tried quantum tubeless? It is tubeless and tubes at the same time, and only manifests into one or the other when you take the tyre off.


With tubes made from Schödinger's cat gut


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## Dogtrousers (1 Aug 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> Schrodinger tubeless is another brand name that they go by.


You beat me to it. But at least I put the dots on the ö


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## wonderloaf (1 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> You beat me to it. But at least I put the dots on the ö


Umlauts to you


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Aug 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> Schrodinger tubeless is another brand name that they go by.



They only work in a dark lane on a dark night with black cat eyes ...


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## lane (11 Aug 2019)

UPDATE

Put my GP5000s on about 5 or 6 months ago. Probably 2000km. No punctures that I am aware of. Not especially impressive in itself have had tubes that would do that and more. As noted upthread about a month ago I broke the seal on tne front to check the sealent level and there seemed to be plenty but I topped it up anyway. Today I decided to check the back tyre - especially as we have had warmer weather which can dry sealent up more quickly and we did have about three days hot weather! Also I am using Stans race sealent which is supposed to dry up more quickly. 

Deflated the tyre and it did not unseat which it had done previously. Pushed on the tyre and it unseated. Easily broke the seal and had a look to find still lots of liquid sealent in the tyre. Topped it up anyway seeing as I had the seal broken and re seated and inflated to 70psi no problem. Total time probaly 5 minutes.

I am starting to think that maybe the GP5000 - which has a liner to make the tyre airtight - also stops the sealent drying out. Anyway I can't see I really need to check the sealent level more than every 6 months.

So that's maybe 20 minutes a year for both tyres twice a year.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Aug 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> Schrodinger tubeless is another brand name that they go by.



But they only come in black


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## C R (11 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> But they only come in black


Only if you don't look at them.


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