# Raleigh Motus Tour? Wisper? Other?



## Espresso vecchio (16 Aug 2021)

Hi all

I'd be grateful for some opinions please before I finally commit to the purchase for my wife. Because of a leg weakness on one side she is unable now to cycle more than 4-5 miles comfortably, but in general the upright position is comfortable..it's just the leg. I ride my Bianchi regularly up to 40 miles or more but would like her to be able to come with me for more leisurely rides of maybe 20-25 miles. The terrain here (E Anglia) is undulating/flattish with a couple of minor hills, and poor road surfaces; we are unlikely to go off-road, apart possibly from a former railway track which is now a recognised cycle route. We are talking pleasant and very quiet rural roads, and do not plan to go to the city 12 miles away.

I suggested an e-bike to her, and eventually took her to see some, after I had done some basic homework about hub motors/crank drives and brands. Step-Thru was obviously best for her, and I began to think European branded bikes rather than Chinese/generic.

Shop 1: actually a car garage that has branched into a single brand of e-bikes. They had Batribikes: very nicely finished with Danish hub motors. Salesmen were pleaasant and unpushy but clearly knew little about bikes of any sort.
Shop 2: a proper LBS: large range of e-bike brands (Wisper, Batribike, Raleigh); helpful staff who offered us test rides on another day
Shop 3: a large family-run LBS, agents for Royal Dutch Gazelle. They could not have been more unhelpful, unknowledgeable and disinterested, so we moved swiftly on
Shop 4: a proper LBS, agents for Raleigh and Royal Dutch, as well as selling good makes of new and 2nd-hand road bikes. Extremely helpful and knowledgeable young woman in her early 20s. She showed me a Raleigh Motus Tour but did not have any Royal Dutch to show apart from one in for service belonging to a customer. Both were nicely finished. For a small refundable deposit her shop provides an ebike to try for 10 days. Impressive all round
Shop 5: I rode 15 miles each way to this one after a recommendation. Owner had to give up serious cycling a decade ago because of severe breathing problems, discovered e-bikes and was hooked so he started a business. He sells only Raleigh and Wisper. NIce unpushy man who offered me a ride: he showed me a Raleigh Motus Tour (£2300-2500) and a Wisper 705 (£1600). I had gone barely 200m on the Motus Tour when I realised how great the e-bike experience is; by the time we had done a 4 mile ride and climbed up a 10-12% hill I had a huge smile. It was terrific.

SO... I like the idea of the German-made (Kalkhoff factory) Raleigh with Bosch crank drive, and but also liked the simple Wisper, though uncertain about the hub motor and various fittings which are all branded 'Wisper'. I am happy about the cost of either, and felt that the attitude of the owner on its own was enough to make me want to buy from him. We go for a booked session with Shop 5 in 2 days' time so my wife can ride one and say what feels right to her. Published journalistic reviews of either brand seem good, though Wisper owners seemed to have a highish amount of niggles to match their obvious satisfaction; the Wisper owner came in for praise from several people for his willingness to help fix problems.

It depends of course on what my wife finds, but I strongly lean towards a Motus Tour; I also like the idea of a Nexus7 hub gear on it but a Deore derailleur would be fine.

After such a long post from me I'd value your thoughts and experience.

Thanks, Stephen


----------



## Stul (16 Aug 2021)

..I got myself a Raleigh Centros Grand tour (could not find any Motus models at the time). My main priority was for the Bosch mid drive, 500W, Nexus hub and belt drive...had it for the last 12 months or so and have been really pleased. Most of the time I only need to use it in "eco" (lowest) power setting and normally get around 90 miles per full charge...must admit I didn't really look at any other bikes as the Centros ticked all my boxes..only thing I don't really like is the "reverse pedal brake"...but you do get used to it.


----------



## Espresso vecchio (16 Aug 2021)

Stul said:


> ..I got myself a Raleigh Centros Grand tour (could not find any Motus models at the time). My main priority was for the Bosch mid drive, 500W, Nexus hub and belt drive...had it for the last 12 months or so and have been really pleased. Most of the time I only need to use it in "eco" (lowest) power setting and normally get around 90 miles per full charge...must admit I didn't really look at any other bikes as the Centros ticked all my boxes..only thing I don't really like is the "reverse pedal brake"...but you do get used to it.


Thanks...just the sort of experience I am looking to hear


----------



## gbb (16 Aug 2021)

My wife has a (probably 2018) Motus ladies, not sure which model, 7 or 8 speed...and loves it to bits.
Nothing much to say really, its been reliable, no hiccups, smooth to ride and any of her friends who have ridden it fall in love with the idea of an ebike.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (17 Aug 2021)

I have Raleigh Motus - just the basic version so the smaller battery
I bought it as a replacement for my old ebike which was well over 10 years old and very old tech

I have had it a few months short of 2 years now and I have done just short of 6000 miles. A lot of it has been on canal paths and other similar footpaths.
As far as range goes I used to ride in Tour mode ( second from bottom) and could manage 2 20 miles rides between charges with little chance of running short of battery unless there was a big headwind - but even that was only a problem in cold weather where the range does seem to drop a bit.
This year I have dropped the assist level and now ride mostly in Eco mode and 2 20 miles rides leaves me with about 1/3 of a battery charge left - so I reckon I could do 60 miles with no problem if I needed to.
Remember this is the smaller battery - the Motus Tour and Grand Tour move up to the bigger battery sizes and hence longer range

As far as problems go - and ignoring punctures - I have had 2 problems so far - both similar
a) while riding along on a path the saddle just fell off
Turned out that it was, as usual, held on with 2 nuts with hex heads - and one of them had just snapped in 2 - ride back home was interesting!LBS was great and replaced the bolt with a better one free of charge
b) the - very similar - bolt holding the stand onto the bike starting getting loose quite often - and then broke in the same way as above - again LBS was great and replaced it for free with a better quality nut and bolt

both bits are not as solid as a rock!

Only other niggle was having to replace the chain and cassette after about 3000 miles - but I think this is to be expected, especially with a central motor as going up a hill the power/weight of the rider is enhanced with the power/torque generated by the motor and it all goes through the chain and gears - hub motors do not do that so the chain/gears do not get the same wear
And I should mention that the canal paths I ride on get very muddy and gritty in winter and I am not the sort of perfect rider who will clean the chain after every wet ride - so probably partially my fault

But generally it has been great - and Raleigh seem to have been very helpful when I have asked the LBS question that they couldn;t answer
And with other stuff

I know I am going on a bit - but just one more thing
On some forums you will find people who would never go with anything Bosch. They are expensive and if anything goes wrong the fix is normally to just replace the whole part - battery , motor or whatever.
However, generally I think these circumstances are rare and they tend to be reliable - as usual the people who have had a problem shout loudly - the ones who have had no problems don't have anything to shout about - but seem to be the vast majority!
However, it does seem to be the case that when the ebike battery gets beyond a certain number of charge cycles then any ebike battery starts to loose range. Bosch ones seem to be impossible to get recelled - whereas cheaper ones can be done - although the cost is not that far off the cost of a new battery!
However, the point at which a Bosch battery looses charge seems (according to Bosch mostly) to be later than for cheaper systems - probably because they use better quality cells in the first place! Hence they may be cheaper of the long run.

TLDR - I love it!!!


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Aug 2021)

If you have the money I would go for a Motus in suitable spec, not least because there's nothing smoother and more cycling like than the Bosch crank drive.

The Wisper has Chinese bits, although I believe post Chinese dumping regulations (rather than post Brexit) Wisper now assemble in Europe.

They are a sound company, and David Miall, the owner, is a decent guy who genuinely aims to treat his customers well.

No reason not to buy a Wisper, so I reckon it comes down to which bike your wife prefers.


----------



## rivers (17 Aug 2021)

My wife has a Raleigh Captus (same frame as the Motus, unsure of other differences, no longer made). She absolutely loves it, and has owned it for 3 years now I think. It's been a solid, dependable bike for her. Hers is a 9 speed altus I believe with a 350 watt battery. I think she gets about 40 undulating miles out of a single charge, but she rarely goes that far.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (17 Aug 2021)

I hate to mention Halfords - but I was in there a few days ago and I noticed that they have a Raleigh - basically like the Motus with the same drive - but some different peripherals
Certainly seemed to have a more adjustable handlebar arrangement and the price was closer to the basic Motus than the Tour
might be worth having a look????


----------



## Espresso vecchio (18 Aug 2021)

Thanks to all for replying...my wife was entranced by the riding experience at our trip to Shop 5. We bought the Motus Grand Tour for her and it's due in late September. 

Yesterday I met an acquaintance just retired, a regular runner and road biker, in the village shop. He described the same excellent time at Shop 5, and his wife too has just bought the same model


----------



## Blue Hills (18 Aug 2021)

Espresso vecchio said:


> Thanks to all for replying...my wife was entranced by the riding experience at our trip to Shop 5. We bought the Motus Grand Tour for her and it's due in late September.
> 
> Yesterday I met an acquaintance just retired, a regular runner and road biker, in the village shop. He described the same excellent time at Shop 5, and his wife too has just bought the same model


doesn't the mysterious "shop 5" deserve a plug?
apologies if I have missed it.


----------



## DiggyGun (18 Aug 2021)

My wife and I both have step throughs. I had the Raleigh Motus GT and the wife has a Wisper 705.

Both are good, but we found on non tarmac paths and roads that the Wisper was more stable.

Maybe because it had wider tyres, 1.95” (49.6mm) to 42mm (1.65”) ??


----------



## Espresso vecchio (18 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> doesn't the mysterious "shop 5" deserve a plug?
> apologies if I have missed it.


Yes, I did think of naming it but hesitated in case it might be against local rules in this arena or deemed to be advertising...... 

...but on further thought it is clear that no-one here thinks twice about shaming Halfords (often) ... so maybe it is OK to name the good guys as well for a change. Shops 4 & 5 show that proper service still exists. 

Moderators may choose to remove the name but until they do everyone should know that Shop 5 is https://www.smilebikes.co.uk/
I'd be happy to name Shop 4 as well, even though I did not buy from them, but will decline to shame Shop 3 lest I get accused of libel!

Declaration: no interest in Smilebikes on my part, other than being a very satisfied new customer

Stephen


----------



## Pale Rider (18 Aug 2021)

Espresso vecchio said:


> but will decline to shame Shop 3 lest I get accused of libel!



It's possible, but difficult, for a business to sue for libel - ask McDonalds.

Some organisations, such as local authorities, cannot sue for libel, although it's worth bearing in mind individual officers and councillors can, so it's not quite open season on your local town hall.

There is no risk in you publishing a fair and honest summary of your experience at any named bike shop, which is not to say that you should.

Your new Motus is more relevant to this thread.

I reckon it should serve you/the wife well.


----------



## Espresso vecchio (6 Sep 2022)

Well, almost a year on it should be said that the Motus Gran Tour of Signora Espresso Vecchio has proved itself excellent - comfortable, smooth and stable. It was clearly undergeared on 26" wheels, the right size of frame and wheels for her, and Nexus hub - for some strange reason its top gear was about the same gear inches as 5th gear on the otherwise identical derailleur version. She was really spinning at a reasonable though not fast pace, so I changed the sprocket from 22T to 18T and it is transformed.

....I liked it so much I got a crossbar version for me a few weeks ago on Gumtree....perfect condition at 18 months old, and much less than half price. I immediately changed the sprocket too. When I investigated why the rear Schrader valve had only 1cm showing and a very funny angle it was a happy surprise to find that it had a Gaadi inner tube. I read a posting elsewhere where the owner reported that his Motus had Gaadis as original equipment. The previous owner told me he asked the LBS to fit better tyres (Contis). The misfitting valve was clearly their fault, as was the way the tube ends overlapped by 10cm. All easily sorted.

Reading this and other forums I realise that there are a lot of good makes and companies out there at all different price points.


----------

