# Wheel upgrade Giant defy 0



## Scavenger1 (9 Jan 2017)

Looking to upgrade from stock wheels on defy 0 2015 any advice be welcomed .


----------



## vickster (9 Jan 2017)

Why do you need to upgrade? What are you trying to achieve? What's your budget?

Have you improved the tyres, probably get more benefit for a fraction of the price


----------



## RegG (9 Jan 2017)

I replaced the wheels on my 2015 Defy 0 with a set of these....

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Vittoria-Se...gle_shopping&gclid=CL7a3sDctNECFRXjGwodtkgKhg

just over a year ago. They were recommended by my LBS although I found them on line for around £110 the pair - I got a bargain as they are a lot more at the moment. They made a noticeable difference in that they roll much easier than the stock wheels and they are lighter. The bike also felt 'quicker' and my Strava times were improved! Very pleased with the upgrade. My stepson fitted some Mavic Kysrium Elites to his Defy and they made a big difference.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Looking to upgrade from stock wheels on defy 0 2015 any advice be welcomed .



As vickster says - what is wrong with your current wheels and what are you expecting to achieve with any so-called 'upgrade' ?


----------



## Spiderweb (9 Jan 2017)

Personally I would ride them until they need replacing then look at Kysriums.
Having said that when my stock wheels on my daily rider/commuter needed replacing I went for Shimano's entry level R501 (around £70-80/pair from Ribble). They have now covered over 5000 miles and have been surprisingly good.


----------



## Scavenger1 (9 Jan 2017)

when I purchased bike from tredz they advised me to upgrade the wheels in the future


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> when I purchased bike from tredz they advised me to upgrade the wheels in the future



So that's your rationale - nothing else?


----------



## Scavenger1 (9 Jan 2017)

Just wanting to improve my bike performance .


----------



## vickster (9 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Just wanting to improve my bike performance .


Isn't it more about improving your own performance? The bike is just a part of it 

What's your budget? Did Tredz suggest anything?


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Just wanting to improve my bike performance .


That's enough of a reason in my book! His money his choice.
I wouldn't know what to suggest as an upgrade, depends what you want to do - carbon, carbon/alloy, tubeless, tubular, racing or leisure or commuting, and how heavy you are - number of spokes.
I went for a semi aero 30mm alloy low spoke count very light Superstar wheelset for £150 and I'm very happy with them for summer use. I ride with some very capable riders and wanted to make my bike as light as it could be to remain in an equal footing machinery wise without breaking the bank! Just don't expect huge improvements in performance, it's marginal gains only.
I use Shimano R501's for winter.


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Isn't it more about improving your own performance? The bike is just a part of it
> 
> What's your budget? Did Tredz suggest anything?


If it was all about "improving your own performance" then why not ride one of these






Who's to say where ones particular "baseline" is?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Just wanting to improve my bike performance .



Best way to do that is to improve the performance of the person riding it. If you want new wheels for purely existential or gratuitous purposes, then just set yourself a budget and pick the wheelset within that price range that looks the nicest. But if you are looking for some sort of performance improvement, you may end up disappointed. Worth having a think about your riding and your current fitness before committing further.

In my opinion, obviously. Let the moral outrage commence..


----------



## smutchin (9 Jan 2017)

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Li...-Clincher-Centrelock-Disc-Brake-Wheelset/DTXC

HTH


----------



## Rooster1 (9 Jan 2017)

If the OP can get some lighter wheels, that roll better than the stock wheels then why the hell not. 

I would recommend some Mavic Askiums or some Fulcrum Racing 5's would be perfect.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> that roll better than the stock wheels



What would make new wheels 'roll' better than stock wheels? Surely wheels 'roll' by definition?


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> What would make new wheels 'roll' better than stock wheels? Surely wheels 'roll' by definition?


My superstars and old Planet X 101/82's definitely spin for longer when suspended in the air compared to my Shimano R501's which grind to a halt in no time. Maybe that is what he means?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> My superstars and old Planet X 101/82's definitely spin for longer when suspended in the air compared to my Shimano R501's which grind to a halt in no time. Maybe that is what he means?



If that actually made a real-world difference, then it would be worth considering. My best wheels are a pair of C24s, which spin for only a handful of seconds when held up like that. Conversely, I have an old pair of PX Model Bs which will spin all day.


----------



## Rooster1 (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> What would make new wheels 'roll' better than stock wheels? Surely wheels 'roll' by definition?



If the stock wheels are cup and cone, some new wheels with sealed bearings could roll or spin faster no? yes ?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> If the stock wheels are cup and cone, some new wheels with sealed bearings could roll or spin faster *no?* yes ?



No. Why would bearings of one design be inherently 'faster' than bearings of another design?


----------



## Dan Ferris (9 Jan 2017)

On my 2015 Giant Defy entry model i purchased a similar set to these teamed up with some tyres. This was in 2015 so this appears to be the newer more expensive model. Even still, made it feel like a new bike. Timings compared to the old and new wheels would also suggest this was a worthwhile upgrade.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-zonda-c17-wheelset/


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Dan Ferris said:


> On my 2015 Giant Defy entry model i purchased a similar set to these *teamed up with some tyres*. This was in 2015 so this appears to be the newer more expensive model. Even still, made it feel like a new bike. Timings compared to the old and new wheels would also suggest this was a worthwhile upgrade.



How much of that 'improvement' was down to the wheels, and how much was down to the tyres?


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> No. Why would bearings of one design be inherently 'faster' than bearings of another design?


So if a wheel bearing doesn't keep spinning when rotated off the ground compared to another , doesn't this mean it has some sort of friction/binding issues which would affect its performance in some way? (Admittedly this is a hub/bearing issue rather than a "wheel" issue).


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> So if a wheel bearing doesn't keep spinning when rotated off the ground compared to another , doesn't this mean it has some sort of friction/binding issues which would affect its performance in some way? (Admittedly this is a hub/bearing issue rather than a "wheel" issue).



Not when the only thing that actually matters is now that wheel performs on the road, no. Fractional differences in the rolling times of unweighted bearings has very little bearing (geddit?) on performance under load, when so many more factors come into play.


----------



## Hacienda71 (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> If that actually made a real-world difference, then it would be worth considering. My best wheels are a pair of C24s, which spin for only a handful of seconds when held up like that. Conversely, I have an old pair of PX Model Bs which will spin all day.


Why did you buy a pair of C24's? Surely you would have saved a shed load of cash sticking with the Planet X's.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Hacienda71 said:


> Why did you buy a pair of C24's? Surely you would have saved a shed load of cash sticking with the Planet X's.



I certainly missed a trick there - if only the outcome of races was decided by holding up your front wheel and seeing how long it spins for..


----------



## r04DiE (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> No. Why would bearings of one design be inherently 'faster' than bearings of another design?


Different design with less rolling resistance?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Different design with less rolling resistance?



Do you know of such a bearing which meets that description? (don't say 'ceramic')


----------



## r04DiE (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Do you know of such a bearing which meets that description?


I don't know exactly which bearings were being compared, no; but then neither do you, that's why I put a '?' at the end, its there to sort of indicate that my contribution was a suggestion, rather than a fact. You know, a _food for thought_ sort of thing.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> I don't know exactly which bearings were being compared, no; but then neither do you, that's why I put a '?' at the end, its there to sort of indicate that my contribution was a suggestion, rather than a fact. You know, a _food for thought_ sort of thing.



Well in the spirit of progressive discussion - I only know of two basic bearing types which are applicable here - cup/cone and cartridge. I'm not aware of any performance differences between the two, certainly none which would affect real world road use. That's why I asked you if you knew of any others.


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Well in the spirit of progressive discussion - I only know of two basic bearing types which are applicable here - cup/cone and cartridge. I'm not aware of any performance differences between the two, certainly none which would affect real world road use. That's why I asked you if you knew of any others.


So why don't we (and all the race teams) all forget cartridge bearings and just stick to cup and cone like the aforementioned R501's?


----------



## r04DiE (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> ... I'm not aware of any performance differences between the two...


So, just to confirm, you are claiming that you know for a fact there is no chance at all of any single cup and cone design bearing being inherently faster or slower that any cartridge design bearing. In the world. Ever?


----------



## smutchin (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> So why don't we (and all the race teams) all forget cartridge bearings and just stick to cup and cone like the aforementioned R501's?



BMC, FDJ, Lotto-Jumbo, Orica, Sky and Sunweb all have Shimano as their wheel sponsor.


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

smutchin said:


> BMC, FDJ, Lotto-Jumbo, Orica, Sky and Sunweb all have Shimano as their wheel sponsor.


Shows what I know! I guess they are somewhat better than my R501's.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> So why don't we (and all the race teams) all forget cartridge bearings and just stick to cup and cone like the aforementioned R501's?



Good question. You need to ask all the Shimano sponsored teams, who are all still riding cup/cone on their C24/35/50 wheels. But I'm not suggesting that one type is superior - quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> So, just to confirm, you are claiming that you know for a fact there is no chance at all of any single cup and cone design bearing being inherently faster or slower that any cartridge design bearing. In the world. Ever?



I've never really had cause to think that deeply about something so utterly unimportant, if I'm honest. Have you?


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Good question. You need to ask all the Shimano sponsored teams, who are all still riding cup/cone on their C24/35/50 wheels. But I'm not suggesting that one type is superior - quite the opposite in fact.


So it seems, just been reading up on the subject, seems cheap versions of both are not great, whilst more expensive versions of both can be quite good?


----------



## mustang1 (9 Jan 2017)

Get Spinergy.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> So it seems, just been reading up on the subject, seems cheap versions of both are not great, whilst more expensive versions of both can be quite good?


Bit like cartridge bearings then..


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Bit like cartridge bearings then..


Yes ok I concede!
Did find this though although I guess the same could be said for good quality cup and cone






So to upgrade we must ask ourselves are we getting better components than what we already have, so if your not getting better quality bearings, hubs, rims etc etc then it isn't an upgrade? 
So to go back to the OP are the standard Giant wheels any good?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> Yes ok I concede!



Haha - sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just banter - I think we're both agreeing anyway.



Justinslow said:


> So to go back to the OP are the standard Giant wheels any good?



The never-ending question. In principle, the Giant wheels do the job of 'being wheels', so in that sense they are just fine. Different kind of wheels might be useful to the OP, depending on need. Lighter, more aero, more spokes, stronger rim, wider rim, all of that might have an impact on budget, though.


----------



## Justinslow (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Haha - sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just banter - I think we're both agreeing anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> The never-ending question. In principle, the Giant wheels do the job of 'being wheels', so in that sense they are just fine. Different kind of wheels might be useful to the OP, depending on need. Lighter, more aero, more spokes, stronger rim, wider rim, all of that might have an impact on budget, though.


Lol Yes we are agreeing, I've been down this road before, pardon the pun, and got a mate who spent £600 on bullets to go 1 second faster in a 10 TT! I can see both sides though.
But if the OP wants to spend his hard earned on something- who are we to argue?


----------



## r04DiE (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> I've never really had cause to think that deeply about something so utterly unimportant, if I'm honest. Have you?


Yes, but only to aid you in your desire for


S-Express said:


> ... the spirit of progressive discussion...


So, let's hear you. It was important enough for you make the point, so why don't you continue to defend it?


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> So, let's hear you. It was important enough for you make the point, so why don't you continue to defend it?



Not sure what I'm defending? To be clear though, I don't know any cup/cone or cartridge bearing which is inherently superior to another. If there was, I suspect all manufacturers would routinely adopt it, as punters would be queueing up to buy it for those lovely, but pricey, marginal gains. 

However, if you do know of such a solution, I'm sure we'd all be absolutely delighted if you could share it with us. I have my credit card ready, just in case..


----------



## r04DiE (9 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Not sure what I'm defending?


Evidently, that does indeed appear to be the case. The sarcasm isn't necessary.


----------



## S-Express (9 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Evidently, that does indeed appear to be the case. The sarcasm isn't necessary.



So I was right then. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Dirk (10 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Looking to upgrade from stock wheels on defy 0 2015 any advice be welcomed .


Nowt wrong with the standard wheels on a Defy 0.
Doubt you would notice the difference if you swapped them for anything costing less than £600 - 700 and even then it would probably be subjective.
Mate of mine just spent a £1000 on a pair of Zipp 303s for his Scott Foil and I can still blow him away up a hill on my £200 Wilier hybrid.
Save your money and put it towards a new bike in a year or two.


----------



## Justinslow (10 Jan 2017)

Dirk Thrust said:


> Nowt wrong with the standard wheels on a Defy 0.
> Doubt you would notice the difference if you swapped them for anything costing less than £600 - 700 and even then it would probably be subjective.
> Mate of mine just spent a £1000 on a pair of Zipp 303s for his Scott Foil and I can still blow him away up a hill on my £200 Wilier hybrid.
> Save your money and put it towards a new bike in a year or two.


Yer but,
My mate in his ford mondeo is a better faster driver than me, doesn't mean I can't own a Ferrari if I can afford it 
Whether I can utilise the performance is irrelevant.


----------



## Dirk (10 Jan 2017)

Justinslow said:


> Yer but,
> My mate in his ford mondeo is a better faster driver than me, doesn't mean I can't own a Ferrari if I can afford it
> Whether I can utilise the performance is irrelevant.


By all means change your wheels if you feel the need for a vanity project. We're all guilty of doing things like that; but it won't magically improve your performance to that of a cycling God.
There's a world of difference between a set of wheels off a £99 Sports Direct special and those off a decent high end road bike from a well known manufacturer. Just don't expect much difference between anything in the middle ground.


----------



## r04DiE (10 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> So I was right then. Thanks for clearing that up.


No, you will be right when you prove that one bicycle wheel bearing cannot be inherently faster or slower than another. As you questioned here:


S-Express said:


> No. Why would bearings of one design be inherently 'faster' than bearings of another design?


----------



## S-Express (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> No, you will be right when you prove that one bicycle wheel bearing cannot be inherently faster or slower than another. As you questioned here:


So, all of this is a result of you completely misunderstanding what I wrote. I find that equally comforting, tbh... 

I was asking you why _you_ might think that? I never once suggested that one might be 'faster' than another, but you clearly missed the inference. I'll try to be clearer next time, so as not to embarrass you again


----------



## r04DiE (10 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> So, all of this is a result of you completely misunderstanding what I wrote. I find that equally comforting, tbh...
> 
> I was asking you why _you_ might think that? I never once suggested that one might be 'faster' than another, but you clearly missed the inference. I'll try to be clearer next time, so as not to embarrass you again


What does this mean then?


S-Express said:


> No. Why would bearings of one design be inherently 'faster' than bearings of another design?


----------



## Spiderweb (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> What does this mean then?


S-Express is not saying any bearing design is faster than another.
Handbags at dawn!
Pack it in you two.


----------



## S-Express (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> What does this mean then?



It means: 

rooster1 postulated (see post #19) whether wheels with sealed bearings might spin faster than cup/cone. My reply is there. It is basically a response asking him why he might think that. There was no inference or implication that one might be faster than the other. I simply invited him to enlarge on his comment. Fans of dentistry will be loving this exchange...


----------



## r04DiE (10 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> It means:
> 
> rooster1 postulated (see post #19) whether wheels with sealed bearings might spin faster than cup/cone. My reply is there. It is basically a response asking him why he might think that. There was no inference or implication that one might be faster than the other. I simply invited him to enlarge on his comment. Fans of dentistry will be loving this exchange...


Yes, and I replied with one reason why one might be faster than the other. The rest is down to you.


----------



## smutchin (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Yes, and I replied with one reason why one might be faster than the other. The rest is down to you.



Did you miss his follow-up question? You haven't answered it.


----------



## r04DiE (10 Jan 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did you miss his follow-up question? You haven't answered it.


Are you his Dad?


----------



## S-Express (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Are you his Dad?



smutchin is not my dad - but he does appear to be someone who is as confused about your posts as I am.


----------



## r04DiE (10 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> smutchin is not my dad - but he does appear to be someone who is as confused about your posts as I am.


OK, enough. You are probably a very nice person to meet, so let's leave this here. I have to say that your sarcastic and sneering persona on here doesn't do you any favours but I am sure you're not like that in the flesh. So let's leave it at that, shall we?


----------



## Grant Fondo (10 Jan 2017)

Scavenger1 said:


> Looking to upgrade from stock wheels on defy 0 2015 any advice be welcomed .


Had Eastons on my last bike and was impressed, you see great deals on EA 70/90/SL now and again


----------



## S-Express (10 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> I have to say that your sarcastic and sneering persona on here



As opposed to your arrogant and dismissive persona, which was accentuated by you not reading my posts properly. yeah, great. I speak as I find, mate. Sorry about that.


----------



## Grant Fondo (10 Jan 2017)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/easton-ea90-sl-road-clincher-wheelset-2016/rp-prod146177


----------



## Tojo (11 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Why do you need to upgrade? What are you trying to achieve? What's your budget?
> 
> Have you improved the tyres, probably get more benefit for a fraction of the price



Because Giant base level wheels are crap components and poorly built, even a pair of shimano RS010's for under a £100 are much better......Enough said...


----------



## vickster (11 Jan 2017)

Tojo said:


> Because Giant base level wheels are crap components and poorly built, even a pair of shimano RS010's for under a £100 are much better......Enough said...


Never personally had an issue over 2000 miles (until I sold the bike). That was crap roads, rider of 15+ stone, plus pannier rack and bag


----------



## r04DiE (11 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> As opposed to your arrogant and dismissive persona, which was accentuated by you not reading my posts properly. yeah, great. I speak as I find, mate. Sorry about that.


Well, all I can do is apologise to you if that's the way I have come across, which it appears I have. I genuinely didn't mean it and as I have said, I am sure that if we met in real life, that we would get along well - but that's forums for you, sometimes its easy to take people the wrong way.

Apologies again for coming across as arrogant and dismissive and I hope we can now draw a line under this.


----------



## Grant Fondo (11 Jan 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Well, all I can do is apologise to you if that's the way I have come across, which it appears I have. I genuinely didn't mean it and as I have said, I am sure that if we met in real life, that we would get along well - but that's forums for you, sometimes its easy to take people the wrong way.
> 
> Apologies again for coming across as arrogant and dismissive and I hope we can now draw a line under this.


Well said!


----------



## Tojo (12 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Never personally had an issue over 2000 miles (until I sold the bike). That was crap roads, rider of 15+ stone, plus pannier rack and bag [/QUOT
> 
> 
> I'm surprised they held out considering you're claimed mass, as it is over the recommended load for the rider plus the mass of the bike itself....


----------



## vickster (12 Jan 2017)

Just goes to show maybe the components aren't as crap and the wheels as poorly built as you say 

Giant ST-2 rims on that bike fwiw


----------



## Tojo (15 Jan 2017)

vickster said:


> Just goes to show maybe the components aren't as crap and the wheels as poorly built as you say
> 
> Giant ST-2 rims on that bike fwiw




Well, I can only comment on what I have came across an all the latest giant low end machines that have came into me for service or repair have had wheel problems as well as what they were brought in for, which included - untrue rims, common. and hub issues which include----dry bearings, loose cones and the worst I had in was pieces of plastic and metal in amongst the hub bearings. Not just in Defy but further up the range( not towards the top end , I will admit as they are good , there's a big gap in quality, in what I have found)....Have you came across this.....?
I speak as I find and I have had at least 15 incidents of this in the last 2years.....


----------



## vickster (15 Jan 2017)

Maybe they've got worse in the last 2 years. This was a 2012 Avail 2


----------



## RegG (16 Jan 2017)

My 2015 Defy 0 and my partners Liv Avail both had Giant PR2 wheels as standard. I did replace mine with some Vittoria Session wheels but she still has the PR2's and they seem to be fine, although a little heavy compared to my Vittoria's.


----------



## jowwy (24 Jan 2017)

Maybe the giant pr2 wheels are ok for pottering around the lanes at 10mph.......but as far as performance wheels go, i doubt that they are up there with the best and i very much doubt theres that many pros if any riding them on tour de france standard race bikes.


----------



## S-Express (24 Jan 2017)

jowwy said:


> i doubt that they are up there with the best and i very much doubt theres that many pros if any riding them on tour de france standard race bikes.



Good insight.


----------



## J1888 (24 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> Good insight.



Now now


----------



## jowwy (24 Jan 2017)

J1888 said:


> Now now


Its ok......i think he's citius and yellow whatever is name is combined in one parody account.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (24 Jan 2017)

jowwy said:


> Maybe the giant pr2 wheels are ok for pottering around the lanes at 10mph.......but as far as performance wheels go, i doubt that they are up there with the best and i very much doubt theres that many pros if any riding them on tour de france standard race bikes.



Bit unfair. I wouldn't say they're _performance_ wheels per se, they're standard base level road bike wheels. Clearly they'll never be used by pros in the TdF, but neither are they only good for pottering at 10mph. I've been riding them for 6 months, a little more than 10mph occasionally, and sometimes in a riding style that exceeds pottering in quite a disgraceful way - (I can't help it, I'm inspired by Brumotti). I can't say I have any problems with them, they turn fine, they corner fine. Would I like a _sexier looking_ or a _lighter_ pair of wheels with big logos like the pros use? Yes, absolutely, because as I often say, I'm a bit wanky like that. But that's not to say that PR-2s are bad.


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 Jan 2017)

jowwy said:


> Its ok......i think he's citius and yellow whatever is name is combined in one parody account.


Don't forget Dusty Bin  Regenerates a bit like Dr Who


----------

