# SS/Fixie Newbie Questions



## EasyPeez (26 Oct 2017)

If all goes to plan I'll be picking up a second-hand Genesis Day One with SS/Fixed flip flop hub this weekend. 

Apart from an evening tearing around Derby velodrome last year, I've never been near a fixed gear or single speed bike, so am rather wet behind the ears when it comes to running & maintenance.

So, a few questions - 

I'm guessing a single speed chain will last a few more miles than my 10 speed road chain (any suggestions on ball park mileage per chain?), but as it's on the one sprocket all the time does that mean that it's advisable to change the sprocket and the chain together every time, rather than the 3 chains per cassette standard that I apply with my derailleur bikes?

Chain tension - after taking off the rear wheel to change tyres/mend punctures, when refitting it and popping the chain back on, what's the best way to ensure the chain is at the right tension and rear wheel stays 100% straight? Do I need any tools apart from an adjustable spanner and allen keys? Chain tugs - if the bike doesn't have these (not sure til I pick it up) should I fit some? Are they easy to fit?

Anything else I should know that life with road and CX bikes might not have prepared me for?

Cheers,

Andy


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## Threevok (26 Oct 2017)

Chains and Cogs - can't tell you how long they last - mine show no signs of wear after a year

If you end up like me - continuously changing front and rear cogs for different conditions/applications then just replace whatever gets worn I suppose

I have chain tugs (DMR ones) but there are some ratios when I can't use them. for this (if you are using them) use a good QR Skewer, one that can be tightened quite tight (shimano are good)

Aligning the wheel I find more of a pain WITH the tugs on


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

Chain life is similar to a geared bike, I recon between 2 and 3000 miles for mine. Cogs are usually long lived. When tensioning a chain on a fixed its likely to have tight and loose spots in it so tension on a tight spot, if you pull the wheel back then nip up the non drive side nut then fine tune the chain tension before tightening the drive side nut then square the wheel up in the frame by loosening and adjusting the non drive side nut, Chain tugs are a personal choice, if you want them have them, if not don't bother with them


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## oldstrath (26 Oct 2017)

My Day One ( excellent bike by the way) just needs Allen keys. If you do need a spanner for track nuts I'd suggest the right size tool rather than a movie - lighter, and less likely to round stuff.


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

oldstrath said:


> My Day One ( excellent bike by the way) just needs Allen keys. If you do need a spanner for track nuts I'd suggest the right size tool rather than a movie - lighter, and less likely to round stuff.



One thing to remember, if you've got a big spanner you use in the workshop and a lighter spanner you carry in your saddle bag don't lean on the big spanner too hard, or you'll never get the nut undone by the roadside, which is embarrassing and could lead to a long walk.


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## swee'pea99 (26 Oct 2017)

Watch out the first time you go downhill fixed. Finding the pedals have a mind of their own is a bit unnerving the first time it happens!


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## MossCommuter (26 Oct 2017)

I don't know about fixed but I commute daily on a Day One Disc with single speed freewheel.

I find that half link chains last longer; initially they "stretch" quickly but then settle down and last 4,000 miles plus. I get it short as possible when fitted.

Also a good freewheel is a good investment. I went for White Industries after destroying cheaper Shimano ones too often and I mean total failures. The WI sprocket is good for loads of wear and you can change just the sprocket when it's worn out. They're easy to dismantle and service. I am on the original inner, bearing, pawls and springs after 10,000 miles or more and the second outer. I kept the old outer; there's life in it yet.


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## EasyPeez (26 Oct 2017)

dave r said:


> fine tune the chain tension


Forgive the silly question, but what does a finely tuned chain look/feel like? I assumed nice and tight on both cogs/not too much slack, but is there more to it than this? Same whether running it fixed or SS?



swee'pea99 said:


> Watch out the first time you go downhill fixed. Finding the pedals have a mind of their own is a bit unnerving the first time it happens!


Yeah...I got a couple of kicks up the posterior on the velodrome when I forgot to pedal - keeps you on your toes, quite literally! Think I'll be sticking with SS mode for the commute.



MossCommuter said:


> Also a good freewheel is a good investment. I went for White Industries after destroying cheaper Shimano ones too often and I mean total failures


Again, forgive my ignorance but the freewheel is the rear cog, right? Rather than a part of the hub, like the freehub on my current bikes?

Is this the kind of thing you have fitted? How often do you replace them?

https://www.evanscycles.com/token-1...MIxue3yuKO1wIVEuEbCh3EzQJ-EAQYASABEgKjTvD_BwE


Also @MossCommuter & @oldstrath - What chains do you use?
And do you have mudguards fitted? And if so what size tyres are you running. I'm wondering about SKS full guards with 28mm tyres.

Thanks for the info and tips so far


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## EasyPeez (26 Oct 2017)

MossCommuter said:


> I get it short as possible when fitted.



Doesn't this cause any problems getting the chain off to get the rear wheel out?


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## MossCommuter (26 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Forgive the silly question, but what does a finely tuned chain look/feel like? I assumed nice and tight on both cogs/not too much slack, but is there more to it than this? Same whether running it fixed or SS?
> 
> 
> Yeah...I got a couple of kicks up the posterior on the velodrome when I forgot to pedal - keeps you on your toes, quite literally! Think I'll be sticking with SS mode for the commute.
> ...


It's the single cog and bearing on the back wheel. In place of the cassette. The Shimano one is like the ones that I have destroyed by my immense power (i.e. weight ).

I don't know the brand of chain but it's like a BMX one. The local bike shop fitted it.


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## MossCommuter (26 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Doesn't this cause any problems getting the chain off to get the rear wheel out?


If you can get it on, you can get it off


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Forgive the silly question, but what does a finely tuned chain look/feel like? I assumed nice and tight on both cogs/not too much slack, but is there more to it than this? Same whether running it fixed or SS?
> 
> 
> Yeah...I got a couple of kicks up the posterior on the velodrome when I forgot to pedal - keeps you on your toes, quite literally! Think I'll be sticking with SS mode for the commute.
> ...



A fixed chain tends to develop loose and tight spots on it but I'm looking at less than an inch of up and down movement in the chain if I can get it. I run full mudguards on my genesis, its a 700c wheel size. If you're running a bike with rear facing track ends on it remember to leave enough space between the wheel and mudguard to get the wheel out, I use secu clips on my bike.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/mudguards/sks-secu-clips-for-front-mudguard-stays-per-pair/


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## Lonestar (26 Oct 2017)

@dave r see your front mudguard but no spd's? Still looks neat though.Reminds me of the 1970's club runs.


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

Lonestar said:


> @dave r see your front mudguard but no spd's? Still looks neat though.Reminds me of the 1970's club runs.



Since that photo was taken I've moved onto Click R SPD's


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

Lonestar said:


> @dave r see your front mudguard but no spd's? Still looks neat though.Reminds me of the 1970's club runs.



My Genesis as it is now, picture taken on my ride on Tuesday


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## Lonestar (26 Oct 2017)

I remember coming off the bike at Harrow Green in the mid 90's due to my foot catching on the front mudguard.Since then I've ditched the front ones although cut down ones are a good idea.


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## mjr (26 Oct 2017)

KMC B1S chain.

Fix punctures without removing the chain when you can.


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## alicat (26 Oct 2017)

Nice bike @dave r.


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## Ian H (27 Oct 2017)

I prefer long road-style drop-outs to track-ends. They keep better alignment for a rear brake.


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## EasyPeez (27 Oct 2017)

Ian H said:


> I prefer long road-style drop-outs to track-ends. They keep better alignment for a rear brake.


The Day One has track style drop outs. But it's Avid BB7 disc brakes so hopefully that might make adjustment/alignment easier.


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## EasyPeez (27 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> KMC B1S chain


That seems excellent value.

As it'll be my winter bike and getting the Mickle treatment rather than proper regular deep cleans I might spend a bit more and get something like this with the rust protection.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/kmc-x1-ept-chain/rp-prod120658

I assume it would be ok to use a quicklink with either of the above?


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## mjr (27 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> That seems excellent value.
> 
> As it'll be my winter bike and getting the Mickle treatment rather than proper regular deep cleans I might spend a bit more and get something like this with the rust protection.
> 
> ...


I've not got on with anti-rust chains (both of the ones I've tried were noisy as hell), plus I read somewhere a list of reasons why the older B1 is claimed to be better than the X1. Of course, I can't find that by searching for "B1" 

It's fine to use quicklinks unless you've very tight clearance. In case you've not seen one yet, most SS quicklinks look different to the matching pairs on derailleur bikes, consisting of a side plate with both pins on (I usually put that on the inside), a sideplate like an 8 that they both poke through and a securing clip like an elongated long C which slides over the notches in the pins that poke through (I usually put it so the open side is second around the sprocket IYSWIM). I tend to join/split them by pushing a large flat-blade screwdriver on the side of the securing clip.

TAYA chains come with a single-use two-piece quicklink. Buying more quicklinks is annoying so I'll not be using them again until they stop that.


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## mjr (27 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/kmc-x1-ept-chain/rp-prod120658


I just noticed that's a 3/32" chain. Do you want a 3/32" chain rather than a 1/8"? What sprockets have you got?


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## mjr (27 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> plus I read somewhere a list of reasons why the older B1 is claimed to be better than the X1. Of course, I can't find that by searching for "B1"


I found https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1085865#p1085865 from the other place. EDIT: and searching that poster's history found https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1081658#p1081658 which looks like the start of the discussion I remember.


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## EasyPeez (27 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> most SS quicklinks look different to the matching pairs on derailleur bikes


Ah, ok. I didn't even realise SS quicklinks were different. Was just planning on using one of my spare Sram ones. Thanks for the heads up!



mjr said:


> I just noticed that's a 3/32" chain. Do you want a 3/32" chain rather than a 1/8"? What sprockets have you got?


Not sure yet. It's a 2013 Day One but I've struggled to find a full spec online. Due to pick it up Saturday so will know then. Cheers.


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## MossCommuter (27 Oct 2017)

Is it a Day One or a Day One Disc?

I have a 2013 Day One Disc and saved the spec:



2013 Day One Disc Spec Sheet said:


> Bottom Bracket TH Industries BB-7420ST Cartridge 68x110mm
> Brakes BB7 Mechanical Road (160mm rotors)
> Cassette Shimano SF-MX30 18T
> Chain K810 3/32in
> ...


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## EasyPeez (30 Oct 2017)

MossCommuter said:


> Is it a Day One or a Day One Disc?
> 
> I have a 2013 Day One Disc and saved the spec:



It's a Day One Disc, so that's the spec sheet for mine too. Thanks for that - brilliant, much appreciated.

Just done my first quick ride on the bike and am well pleased. I'll be swapping the tyres out and fitting mudguards but other than that it seems perfect for my needs.

Cheers.


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## MossCommuter (30 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> It's a Day One Disc, so that's the spec sheet for mine too. Thanks for that - brilliant, much appreciated.
> 
> Just done my first quick ride on the bike and am well pleased. I'll be swapping the tyres out and fitting mudguards but other than that it seems perfect for my needs.
> 
> Cheers.



I also have a .pdf version of the 2013 Genesis catalogue. I cannot upload it to the thread but if you would like a copy, PM me an email address.


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## smutchin (30 Oct 2017)

I've been meaning to get one of these for my fixed gear road bike, to increase chain life: http://www.hebie.de/en/protection/chainguard/chainglider/350/ 

Never used one myself but I've heard good reports.


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## MossCommuter (30 Oct 2017)

smutchin said:


> I've been meaning to get one of these for my fixed gear road bike, to increase chain life: http://www.hebie.de/en/protection/chainguard/chainglider/350/
> 
> Never used one myself but I've heard good reports.


Never seen that before but a quick search of CC finds a few mentions but not a thread devoted to it, as far as I can tell.

Anyone?


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## EasyPeez (31 Oct 2017)

swee'pea99 said:


> Watch out the first time you go downhill fixed.





MossCommuter said:


> I don't know about fixed



Yeah, neither do I, clearly - I presumed the Day One had a flip flop hub but of course that isn't likely with a disc rotor on one side. So no fixed option for me - presume that would require a whole new wheel building? Bit disappointed as I was looking forward to trying to get into the rhythm of riding fixed when the opportunity presented, but then again SS was always going to be my main option so still pretty pleased with the mint condition bike for £250.



dave r said:


> I run full mudguards on my genesis


Are they SKS guards @dave r ? I tried to fit some Chromoplastics to mine last night and had to give up in the end - none of the supplied bolts for the guard stays would fit into the eyelets on my frame, and the fork crown bolt fits but seems to have washers but no nut. Did you have to source new fittings for yours, or am I being stupid (it wouldn't be the first occasion - indeed, see above!)



MossCommuter said:


> I also have a .pdf version of the 2013 Genesis catalogue. I cannot upload it to the thread but if you would like a copy, PM me an email address.


Much obliged for this. PM on its way.



smutchin said:


> I've been meaning to get one of these for my fixed gear road bike, to increase chain life: http://www.hebie.de/en/protection/chainguard/chainglider/350/
> 
> Never used one myself but I've heard good reports.



That looks like a good option for the winter commute. I think @Pale Rider has one, or something similar, on his e-bike. I guess it means another few minutes of faffing when you get a puncture?


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## dave r (31 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Yeah, neither do I, clearly - I presumed the Day One had a flip flop hub but of course that isn't likely with a disc rotor on one side. So no fixed option for me - presume that would require a whole new wheel building? Bit disappointed as I was looking forward to trying to get into the rhythm of riding fixed when the opportunity presented, but then again SS was always going to be my main option so still pretty pleased with the mint condition bike for £250.
> 
> 
> Are they SKS guards @dave r ? I tried to fit some Chromoplastics to mine last night and had to give up in the end - none of the supplied bolts for the guard stays would fit into the eyelets on my frame, and the fork crown bolt fits but seems to have washers but no nut. Did you have to source new fittings for yours, or am I being stupid (it wouldn't be the first occasion - indeed, see above!)
> ...



I can't remember what make the mudguards are but they were simple and easy to fit.


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## MossCommuter (31 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> presume that would require a whole new wheel building?


You need a screw on fixed wheel cog; sometimes they get called "track sprockets" (esp. on eBay).


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## EasyPeez (31 Oct 2017)

dave r said:


> I can't remember what make the mudguards are but they were simple and easy to fit.


How did I know you were going to say that?!



MossCommuter said:


> You need a screw on fixed wheel cog; sometimes they get called "track sprockets" (esp. on eBay).


Great, thanks. And you swap those out just like changing a cassette on a derailleur bike, using the same tools?


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## MossCommuter (31 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> How did I know you were going to say that?!
> 
> 
> Great, thanks. And you swap those out just like changing a cassette on a derailleur bike, using the same tools?


No, not the same tools; you need a freewheel removal tool. It's easier than a cassette in many ways because you don't need a chain whip.


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## EasyPeez (31 Oct 2017)

MossCommuter said:


> No, not the same tools; you need a freewheel removal tool. It's easier than a cassette in many ways because you don't need a chain whip.


Ah, ok. I shall add one of those to my xmas list then.

I don't use a chain whip btw - find one of these much quicker and easier - 
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/chain-whip-cassette-remover-id_8309913.html


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## Pale Rider (31 Oct 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Yeah, neither do I, clearly - I presumed the Day One had a flip flop hub but of course that isn't likely with a disc rotor on one side. So no fixed option for me - presume that would require a whole new wheel building? Bit disappointed as I was looking forward to trying to get into the rhythm of riding fixed when the opportunity presented, but then again SS was always going to be my main option so still pretty pleased with the mint condition bike for £250.
> 
> 
> Are they SKS guards @dave r ? I tried to fit some Chromoplastics to mine last night and had to give up in the end - none of the supplied bolts for the guard stays would fit into the eyelets on my frame, and the fork crown bolt fits but seems to have washers but no nut. Did you have to source new fittings for yours, or am I being stupid (it wouldn't be the first occasion - indeed, see above!)
> ...



There is a Chainglider on my ebike.

Works quite well, because the Bosch system uses a small front sprocket, which is about the same size as the Rohloff sprocket on the back meaning the Chainglider is a neat, oval shape.

Where the chain meets the Rohloff sprocket is partially exposed, so the chain still becomes black and gunky.

That hardly matters becomes the rest of the chain is enclosed.

As a general point, a chain on a fixed bike ought to last well because it's never derailed, and always runs in perfect alignment.

The higher line compared to a derailer means the chain doesn't pick up quite so much road dirt.

My bike has vertical dropouts and raised chainstays - the chain doesn't go through the rear triangle.

When I've removed the rear wheel it has been easy enough to lift the chain and Chainglider off the rear sprocket in one piece.

Ought to be the same on a fixed, presuming it is set up for the wheel to come out without breaking the chain.

Not sure if it's worth buying a Chainglider as an accessory.

If mine falls apart, I probably wouldn't replace it.


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