# Brooks proofide; is it just expensive dubbin?



## Brandane (8 Apr 2018)

Just wondering, as my Brooks saddle is in need of some TLC.. Local shop has Cherry Blossom Dubbin for £1 for a small tin. Proofide - I would have to order on line and is about £8 for a similar sized tin.


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## welsh dragon (8 Apr 2018)

No idea about other products, but the proofide will last for years. I do mine 2 or 3 times a year. The best bit is that it is colourless, and doesn't smell. And it buffs up well.

Others have their own favourites. There is another thread somewhere about protdecting your brooks and what is best.


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## Brandane (8 Apr 2018)

welsh dragon said:


> There is another thread somewhere about protecting your brooks and what is best.



Ahhh; a quick Google brought me back to this site and a thread from 6 years ago. Looks like there's no definitive answer. Dubbin it is, for the sake of convenience and the fact that "it'll probably do".


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## biggs682 (8 Apr 2018)

Try it out and let us all know in 10+ year's


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## welsh dragon (8 Apr 2018)

Brandane said:


> Ahhh; a quick Google brought me back to this site and a thread from 6 years ago. Looks like there's no definitive answer. Dubbin it is, for the sake of convenience and the fact that "it'll probably do".




I think lots of things will probably do.  i bought the proofide, because i got it cheaper wheni bought my saddle. Does the job as they say.


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## Brandane (8 Apr 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Try it out and let us all know in 10+ year's


Well I can report on it's progress so far, after about 7 years.
It has been treated with Brooks Proofide from new, probably 3 or 4 times per year, and has supported my backside for approximately 10k miles.
It looks ok for it's age, but has needed occasional adjusting to take up some sagging. Waterproof it certainly is not.
I doubt if dubbin has any magic ingredient to prolong it's life, but then I doubt if Proofide does either. Both products seem to make similar claims. The saddle is at a stage of it's life where it won't really matter if dubbin destroys it - but I doubt very much that it will.


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## biggs682 (8 Apr 2018)

Brandane said:


> Well I can report on it's progress so far, after about 7 years.
> It has been treated with Brooks Proofide from new, probably 3 or 4 times per year, and has supported my backside for approximately 10k miles.
> It looks ok for it's age, but has needed occasional adjusting to take up some sagging. Waterproof it certainly is not.
> I doubt if dubbin has any magic ingredient to prolong it's life, but then I doubt if Proofide does either. Both products seem to make similar claims. The saddle is at a stage of it's life where it won't really matter if dubbin destroys it - but I doubt very much that it will.



well i would be tempted to keep on using the proofhide if no issues to date


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## welsh dragon (8 Apr 2018)

You know what they say. If it aint broke, don't fix it.


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## Banjo (8 Apr 2018)

Its possible to use proofide too often and cause the leather to soften .You then need to keep tightening the bolt causing premature failure.

I proofide my brooks once a year and on a 7 year old B17 have yet to need to tighten the bolt.

Im fairly certain dubbin would do but as a small tin of proofide will last several years why worry.


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## Ian H (8 Apr 2018)

I think dubbin may soften the leather , which is not what you want. Unlike, say, a horse saddle, the leather has to be self-supporting: springy but not sagging.


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## Soltydog (8 Apr 2018)

I always forget to re-apply proofide. Got a std B17 that must be over 10 years old, been done maybe 3 times & a B17 imp probably about 8 years old & done twice, no issues so far, but I'll try & remember to do them again this week


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## Tim Hall (8 Apr 2018)

welsh dragon said:


> You know what they say. If it aint broke, don't fix it.


If it ain't Brookes, don't ride it.


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## raleighnut (9 Apr 2018)

Brandane said:


> Well I can report on it's progress so far, after about 7 years.
> It has been treated with Brooks Proofide from new, probably 3 or 4 times per year, and has supported my backside for approximately 10k miles.
> It looks ok for it's age, but has needed occasional adjusting to take up some sagging. Waterproof it certainly is not.
> I doubt if dubbin has any magic ingredient to prolong it's life, but then I doubt if Proofide does either. Both products seem to make similar claims. The saddle is at a stage of it's life where it won't really matter if dubbin destroys it - but I doubt very much that it will.


Next time it gets wet try backing off the tension nut whilst it dries then 're-tension' it when it is dry, I'd also wrap a toe-strap/luggage strap/zip tie around the middle too (It helps to keep the shape)


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## welsh dragon (9 Apr 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> If it ain't Brookes, don't ride it.




I like that.


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## I like Skol (9 Apr 2018)

raleighnut said:


> Next time it gets wet try backing off the tension nut whilst it dries then 're-tension' it when it is dry, I'd also wrap a toe-strap/luggage strap/zip tie around the middle too (It helps to keep the shape)


This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?


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## welsh dragon (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?




Because it is the most comfortable saddle ever. As others say you either have a brooks bum or you don't. I love my brooks and would never use anything else. And it takes just a couple of minutes once or twice a year to treat it.


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## Brandane (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?


Because we're cyclists and we like to do things the hard way! The same way as car addicts wonder why we bother riding a bike when there's a much quicker, easier, and safer (maybe) alternative.


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## welsh dragon (9 Apr 2018)

[QUOTE 5208323, member: 45"]You know what they say. Who in their right mind would buy a saddle that stopped being cutting edge when the Peaky Blinders still owned the factory, which is as comfortable as sitting on an encyclopaedia, and which needs daily massaging with fairy breath to stop it rotting when the humidity goes over 10‰, when you can buy a saddle with none of those problems for £20?[/QUOTE]


I have ridden in the rain, hail, wind. Everything accept snow, and it is just fine. No problems at all. They are beautiful saddles.


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## Vantage (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?



I believe all leather saddles suffer the same issues as a Brooks...they don't enjoy wet weather although my Nidd fairs better. However, and this is just my personal opinion having tried them, the other care free Chinese sweat shop manufactured saddles are basically just s**t.
Other people's bums may disagree.


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## Drago (9 Apr 2018)

There's a bloke at Brooks who buys wholesale tubs of Vaseline, who mixes in a teaspoon of machine oil, and then decants it into tiny tins and sells them for a huge mark up. In fact, the saddle manufacturing is a loss making part of their business and its the Vaseline that keeps them in the black.


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## Ian H (9 Apr 2018)

My three Brooks Professionals (two of them over 30 yrs old) had finally got to the point of being less comfortable, so I replaced them. As I'm not confident of Brooks' current QC and I don't like the Imperial, I experimented with Rivet and Berthoud. The Berthoud won. I sold the others for a reasonable sum.


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

I've commented on this before, but I don't remember where the thread is now (and I can't remember what I said). I'm into leather care in other areas (nothing naughty, vicar, mainly just shoes, and I used to make leather razor strops). There are plenty of oil/wax based leather treatments which help keep leather supple, waterproof to some degree, minimize cracking and lengthen its lifespan - common cheap ones include dubbin, mink oil, neatsfoot oil. In my view, pick any of those three and they'll be just as good for a leather saddle's comfort and longevity as any more expensive products. I do use more expensive products for some shoes, but it's mostly because I think they give a slightly better look (and in some cases I want dyes in the products too).

Speaking of Brooks saddles, I'm definitely a convert to Cambium these days. Mine seems to have all the comfort of my old B17, with no breaking in and no leather treatments necessary - longevity is the only thing I can't assess yet.

I definitely do seem to have a Brooks bum, but I'm envious of those who can do long rides for years on £20 saddles. The closest I've come is a Charge Spoon, which I find very comfortable for 30-40 miles. After that I start to feel pressure building up and I'd say around 50 miles is probably the farthest I'd like to go in one day on it. I'll probably get a Cambium for the bike it's currently on, and move the Spoon to a bike only used for shorter rides. The Spoon is excellent value, mind, and seems well made.

As a final note, all my saddle thoughts are based on my never using bum pads. Finding a saddle that suits my bum so well I can comfortably ride all day on it without padding (as I can with my Cambium) seems like the ideal.


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## Drago (9 Apr 2018)

[QUOTE 5208478, member: 45"]There's nothing more ugly and wrong than a beautiful modern bike with a Victorian lump of leather bolted to it.[/QUOTE]

Some might contend there's nothing more ugly and wrong than a decent Brooks saddle bolted to some horrible soulless machine made piece of two wheeled white goods.


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## tyred (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?


The plastic saddle on my Brompton seems comfortable enough when I do short rides on it. I once did 85 miles on it and was in agony and pining for the comfort of a Brooks.

For me, nothing matches a Brooks for comfort.


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

User said:


> I got a Cambium for the gravel bike, as several friends had raved about them. It really doesn't suit my Brookes arse... it'll go onto the Brompton (used for shorter trips) and the nicely broken in B17 will move from Boudicca to the gravel bike.


That's interesting. I'm assuming it's that hammock saddles are what suit me best, but I guess for some people it's maybe the molding of leather over time that does it.


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2018)

As @Dogtrousers has said (different thread): "the right saddle for a person is so personal"
I think the whole point about choosing a Brooks is that they (until these new ones) have always used leather and offer a little suspension, giving justa little where plastic saddles would not. For my long rides (eg end-to-end 9 x 110 miles), or touring 700km (3 days) or, last year, 1000km MP1K/1440km LEL and 2 x 600s, I sat on a 44 year old old Brooks 'Competition' leather saddle - does the business and no issues, and chats away during the ride to let me know it's there. The Brooks is a bit grazed now after a high speed 'off', though not terminal. I will save it for special long rides (eg West Highlands 1000 in 7 weeks time). I use Ko-cao-line dressing on it, once a year.


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## Gravity Aided (9 Apr 2018)

Drago said:


> There's a bloke at Brooks who buys wholesale tubs of Vaseline, who mixes in a teaspoon of machine oil, and then decants it into tiny tins and sells them for a huge mark up. In fact, the saddle manufacturing is a loss making part of their business and its the Vaseline that keeps them in the black.


I think there's a mix of beef tallow, carnuba wax, beeswax, and paraffin wax in there. Makes proofhide interesting to both man and beast.


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## GuyBoden (9 Apr 2018)

A good film on Brooks' manufacturing:


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## mikeymustard (9 Apr 2018)

Alan O said:


> There are plenty of oil/wax based leather treatments which help keep leather supple, waterproof to some degree, minimize cracking and lengthen its lifespan - common cheap ones include dubbin, mink oil, neatsfoot oil. In my view, pick any of those three and they'll be just as good for a leather saddle's comfort and longevity as any more expensive products. I do use more expensive products for some shoes, but it's mostly because I think they give a slightly better look (and in some cases I want dyes in the products too).


mostly because I'm a cheapskate and felt proofide was overpriced, I looked [far too deeply] into this a while back when I acquired a couple of vintage Brooks saddles. The general consensus among leather workers and saddlers that I've either read or talked to seems to be that the wetter preparations, while nothing wrong with them per se, dry out quickly or are too easy to overdo and spoil the leather. The harder ones like proofide contain tallow and/or lard to 'feed' and condition the leather, and some sort of wax to give it a degree of waterproofing (albeit small).
Of course, proofide should be used on a new brooks because anything else might invalidate the warranty. How they can tell I do no know, but I wouldn't fancy testing their abilities!

I use a conditioner from Sedgwick's, not because I think it's better but cos it was what my local saddlery sold. It does the trick and it was quite cheap. I've used it on several saddles, a satchel, bar tape, a purse and my work boots, and the 65ml pot is only half used after 2 yrs

Edit: oh, and the one thing I actually started writing this for and got way laid is, not all dubbin is the same; someone gave me some that came from a shoe shop and I wouldn't even put it on my nasty old rugby boots!


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## Pale Rider (9 Apr 2018)

I couldn't find my tiny 'free' pot of Proofride so I whacked on some neutral shoe polish which I've had for close to 40 years - last used on my oh-so-stylish grey loafers.

The polish didn't do the saddle any noticeable good - or harm, but I felt better having done something.


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

mikeymustard said:


> mostly because I'm a cheapskate and felt proofide was overpriced, I looked [far too deeply] into this a while back when I acquired a couple of vintage Brooks saddles. The general consensus among leather workers and saddlers that I've either read or talked to seems to be that the wetter preparations, while nothing wrong with them per se, dry out quickly or are too easy to overdo and spoil the leather. The harder ones like proofide contain tallow and/or lard to 'feed' and condition the leather, and some sort of wax to give it a degree of waterproofing (albeit small).
> Of course, proofide should be used on a new brooks because anything else might invalidate the warranty. How they can tell I do no know, but I wouldn't fancy testing their abilities!
> 
> I use a conditioner from Sedgwick's, not because I think it's better but cos it was what my local saddlery sold. It does the trick and it was quite cheap. I've used it on several saddles, a satchel, bar tape, a purse and my work boots, and the 65ml pot is only half used after 2 yrs
> ...


Yes, I think there's a good argument for a harder and more waxy mix - perhaps something like a neutral shoe polish?

(Ah, Pale Rider just beat me to it)


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## Globalti (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?



I'd say the same myself. And my saddles are a fraction of the weight of a Brooks saddle as well.


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

Globalti said:


> And my saddles are a fraction of the weight of a Brooks saddle as well.


And my Brooks saddles are a fraction of the weight of me


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## fossyant (9 Apr 2018)

Anyone who calls Brooks saddles beautiful needs a trip to Specsavers.

I'll stick with Selle Italia or Fizik. Weigh a fraction of the weight of a Brooks and don't get soggy in the rain.


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## Globalti (9 Apr 2018)

I bought a Brooks Swift once and was so shocked at the discomfort, the weight and crudeness of construction (it looked as if it had been beaten together by a blacksmith in a chastity belt factory) that I stuck it straight back on Ebay.


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## robrinay (9 Apr 2018)

Museums use a US product called Pecard Leather Dressing on their old Leathers. It’s extremely expensive and looks like Vaseline. One of the Worlds experts in the preservation of vintage leather flying jackets swears by Vaseline applied sparingly and rubbed into the leather gently with the fingers. I’ve tried both and haven’t noticed any difference. Vaseline is great on shoes too - instant shine and waterproof. I’m using it on a semi fossilised dried out Brooks Professional saddle- skip treasure and it’s working.


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## Mrs M (9 Apr 2018)

Will need to buy some Proof Ride (forgot all about this)  I do have a waterproof cover for my Brooks saddle though


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

robrinay said:


> It’s extremely expensive and looks like Vaseline. One of the Worlds experts in the preservation of vintage leather flying jackets swears by Vaseline applied sparingly and rubbed into the leather gently with the fingers.


I have a leather jacket (not vintage) that's fairly thin "distressed" leather (or in other words, cheap stuff) and it gets a bit scummy and feels dry if I leave it too long with no treatment. I use mink oil just the same way as you suggest using vaseline (it's a similar consistency) and it really makes a difference - the leather gets its depth of colour back and feels soft again. I only use mink oil because I happen to have a big tin of it which was cheap.


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## robrinay (9 Apr 2018)

Lots of people recommend Mink Oil for jackets but I’ve never found any in shops in order to try it out. I found it in shops in the US but didn’t bring any back.


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## Alan O (9 Apr 2018)

robrinay said:


> Lots of people recommend Mink Oil for jackets but I’ve never found any in shops in order to try it out. I found it in shops in the US but didn’t bring any back.


I got mine from an eBay seller. Can't remember who, but this is the brand I got.


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## raleighnut (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?


I dunno, I've only got 6 of them.


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## Ajax Bay (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> consider the bother of a Brookes


Nae bother; just a bit of tlc, like the rest of the bike.


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## Brandane (9 Apr 2018)

fossyant said:


> Anyone who calls Brooks saddles beautiful needs a trip to Specsavers.
> 
> I'll stick with Selle Italia or Fizik. Weigh a fraction of the weight of a Brooks and don't get soggy in the rain.


It therefore depends what you're putting the Brooks on to. Mine are on 2 steel framed bikes; a Genesis Croix de Fer and a Ridgeback Panorama.
I also have a carbon framed Merida Ride and I wouldn't dream of putting a Brooks on it as it just wouldn't look right. It has some kind of lightweight Specialized plastic saddle on it (didn't like the original), which is also fine and comfortable. Horses for courses and all that.....


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## fossyant (9 Apr 2018)

I still won't have them on my two classic steel bikes.


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## Blue Hills (9 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> This kind of thread and post always makes me laugh. I have a saddle that cost £20 new, has covered over 16,000 miles and is getting on for 7yrs old, has never needed treating or adjusting, doesn't have to be stored in a special way, is comfortable for short rides and epic century+ trips alike and looks like it will probably last as long again. WHY would you even consider the bother of a Brookes over the alternative?


Although I appreciate craftsmanship and like to see things survive (that leaves Skol out of it though) , I find it hard to disagree with you. My favourite saddle cost £15. When I discovered how good it was I bought two or three spares. Gutted when I stupidly bust a ndwly fitted one by lifting a fully loaded bike by the bottom of the saddle for of course it has been discontinued. Keep hoping that I might see it under another cheapo name but I fear the manufacturer destroyed all the tooling and shot any staff who had worked on the production line in case word got out that you could buy a great saddle for £15. And leave it in the rain. And not get it nicked off your bike. I later learned that this saddle was made by what is now known as Fizik.

And on proofing - my arse is naturally proofed. For free as long as I maintain a vaguely sensible diet.


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## Globalti (9 Apr 2018)

With leather treatments there's a lots of money to be made if you use fancy packaging and perhaps add a perfume. Basically they are all blends of mineral oils and waxes, which evaporate slowly and provide waterproofing and suppleness. Waxoyle for cars is the same as Nikwax and when I worked for Ramblers Holidays in the Alps I kept my leather walking boots in good condition all through the season with lard, free from the hotel kitchen so I'm sure that would work just as well for a leather saddle. Just don't tell anybody though.


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## Drago (9 Apr 2018)

I make my own Waxoyl for cars. Cheap and easy, just like me.


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## Blue Hills (9 Apr 2018)

Globalti said:


> Waxoyle for cars is the same as Nikwax



Your sure of this? I have no clue/idea. Just asking.

I do of course know that a lot of bike grease is just repackaged, er, grease.


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## Gravity Aided (10 Apr 2018)

robrinay said:


> Lots of people recommend Mink Oil for jackets but I’ve never found any in shops in order to try it out. I found it in shops in the US but didn’t bring any back.


I could probably help with that., if need ever arose.


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## raleighnut (10 Apr 2018)

fossyant said:


> I still won't have them on my two classic steel bikes.


Not even if you could get one of these,


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## I like Skol (10 Apr 2018)

raleighnut said:


> Not even if you could get one of these,
> 
> View attachment 403718


Is that a DIY cut down job?


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## Blue Hills (10 Apr 2018)

raleighnut said:


> Not even if you could get one of these,
> 
> View attachment 403718


Oo, kind of nice. What is it?

Tho its its shininess does rather shame the rust on the bike beneath


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## Alan O (10 Apr 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I hate those seat clamps. Sometimes the old ways aren't the best.


There are plenty of lovely vintage setback seatposts around too - that (special Swallow?) saddle would look even better with one.


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## raleighnut (11 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Is that a DIY cut down job?





Blue Hills said:


> Oo, kind of nice. What is it?
> 
> Tho its its shininess does rather shame the rust on the bike beneath



That is one of the 2004 Swallow Limited Edition Titanium, they made 999 of them each with a matching numbered certificate of authenticity. They then went on to 'do' a 2nd run of 999 in black in 2007.


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## jay clock (11 Apr 2018)

Brandane said:


> Just wondering, as my Brooks saddle is in need of some TLC.. Local shop has Cherry Blossom Dubbin for £1 for a small tin. Proofide - I would have to order on line and is about £8 for a similar sized tin.


Yes next question


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## I like Skol (11 Apr 2018)

raleighnut said:


> That is one of the 2004 Swallow Limited Edition Titanium, they made 999 of them each with a matching numbered certificate of authenticity. They then went on to 'do' a 2nd run of 999 in black in 2007.


Still looks like someone has hacked the nose and tail off in a demented episode of twisted home surgery!


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## Gravity Aided (11 Apr 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Oo, kind of nice. What is it?
> 
> Tho its its shininess does rather shame the rust on the bike beneath


The rust on my bicycle for work kind of shames the Selle Schwinn saddle from 1986 that graces it as well.


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## mikeymustard (11 Apr 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Still looks like someone has hacked the nose and tail off in a demented episode of twisted home surgery!


 A touch harsh? Choose your weapons Sirra, you've just insulted raleighnut's favourite child!


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