# Light comparison -an idea



## User (1 Nov 2007)




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## alecstilleyedye (1 Nov 2007)

> And we could always use ways of tempting more people onto the site.



that makes us sound such an exciting lot eh?


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## domtyler (1 Nov 2007)

Sorry I'm washing my hair tonight.


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## bonj2 (1 Nov 2007)

only thing is to be totally fair it would have to be in an equally dark place, and with an equal camera. not sure how much it would matter if not though, would probably still be useful.


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## domtyler (1 Nov 2007)

Would we be allowed to use Photoshop?


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## Arch (1 Nov 2007)

I think it's a good idea - to be honest most people probably aren't bothered about the smaller differences that might be due to camera and location differences, but would like to see a general comparison.

I'm assuming the picture is taken without flash... And it would be good to try and recreate very similar locations. Perhaps if you post something and give us an idea of how dark it is, we can find places that match it fairly well.

How about rear lights as well?

To make it even more useful, a few words on how easy the lights are to transfer between bikes, carry off the bike, operate on the move, reliability etc...


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## bonj2 (1 Nov 2007)

hmmm...yeah, I see.
well I'll post pics of my lights, a smart polaris 2 (3 led) and soon to be getting a BLT firewire.


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## magnatom (1 Nov 2007)

I've gone and purchased this light. As soon as I get it I will do a comparison with my cateye (el-500 I think)


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## doyler78 (1 Nov 2007)

Ok guess I'll go first then:

Cateye EL-530 first up using new duracell plus batteries:

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1815716206/

This is another shot this time standing well behind the light:

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1816809479/

This is the latest pic of these lights. The settings used are: f-spot: f/2.8, shutter speed: 1/4, iso: 400, white balance: tungsten. I could brighter pictures using other settings however they completely bleached out the ayup pics and this was the best I could get where you could see both pics with some detail. Hope this helps:

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1847055008/


Next up my new AYUP using standard li-ion 6 hour battery:

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1814863299/

and the is the update for the ayup from behind the light:

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1816801719/

Manual settings version of the pics. Details described in cateye section above.

http://flickr.com/photos/14838736@N04/1847071740/

Can't fathom how to put a picture up directly on this reply. Tried image tags, file uploading but neither works so can only provide links to flickr.


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## andygates (1 Nov 2007)

I hope to get a comparison of a Lumi 12w halogen and a 1920s carbide lamp early next week...


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## domd1979 (1 Nov 2007)

My EL530 effort....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17126444@N03/1816529087/




> That's the kind of thing we need. Thanks. Now if only everyone had access to an EL530 we'd be able to get some good comparisons.
> 
> I've just spent 30 minutes out in the garden faffing around in the dark. All I got out of it was a bunch of blurry photos of nothing much.
> 
> I'll have another go over the weekend.


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## doyler78 (1 Nov 2007)

domd1979 said:


> My EL530 effort....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/17126444@N03/1816529087/



That looks way brighter than mine - way to check mine out again

Adding extra photos to my original post as there is a difference in how the el-530 shows up depending on where the camera is place when photographed. Don't ask me why.

Thought it better to update here. Not really technical with my camera. They are just things you point and click but your suggestion below would probably explain it.

Don't really want to overtake the thread with lots of different replies so maybe domtyler might see this here - I didn't do that because would that not defeat the purpose of the thread?


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## domtyler (1 Nov 2007)

doyler78 said:


> That looks way brighter than mine - way to check mine out again
> 
> Adding extra photos to my original post as there is a difference in how the el-530 shows up depending on where the camera is place when photographed. Don't ask me why.



Just turn the brightness up in photoshop before you post it.


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## domd1979 (1 Nov 2007)

Guess the settings on the camera are going to make a difference. I used a "shutter priority" mode, went for 1/4 sec and set the ISO equivalent to 400. I did try a shot on auto, and the camera selected 1/8sec and it sets the ISO itself. 



doyler78 said:


> Adding extra photos to my original post as there is a difference in how the el-530 shows up depending on where the camera is place when photographed. Don't ask me why.


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## sheddy (1 Nov 2007)

Back in the days of C+, I thought someone had started up their own website with lots of bike light pictures on. Dunno where it is now?


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## longers (1 Nov 2007)

doyler78 said:


> Can't fathom how to put a picture up directly on this reply. Tried image tags, file uploading but neither works so can only provide links to flickr.



I struggled a lot with this too but was told about "the paperclip". Symbol on the _reply to thread _page and once clicked you can *browse* your computer for the pics. There is a _Manage Attachments_ button at the bottom of the screen which does the same job too. Thanks to Chuffy and Speicher for showing me how.



This is a great thread and will help me immensely decide where to put my hard earned for buying lights.

The Ay-ups look very good.


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## sjb (2 Nov 2007)

Anyone know where you can get the AYUP's in the UK?


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## Arch (2 Nov 2007)

Sorry, no pics yet, but I wanted to share with you my brain addled state.

I saw the pic taken in the hall way, and realised that I also have a hallway in which I can get total darkness for the pic. Great. I'm about to switch between my summer bike and my winter bike - the one in use lives down in the lobby, the other in the flat.

I actually got as far as thinking, I'll have to take a photo when I have my current bike (summer) up here, because that's the one with the non-dynamo lights on it. So I better get cracking and make the swap. Oh, I'll have to do it this weekend, but I need to fix a puncture first (hub braked wheel, of course), and I'm busy Saturday and....

Then it dawned on me...

The lights are all removable, I can just bung them on whatever bike's up here. 

Maybe I need another cup of tea this morning...

<Goes back to banging head on desk>


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## Panter (2 Nov 2007)

Sorry guys but its gonna make a huge difference unless its done with the same camera each time. You'll get a rough idea but no better than that. 

As said before, shutter speed, ISO setting and the lense will be very variable before you even start factoring in the different light processing cells in the cameras, which metering system and settings etc.


cheers

chris


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## Panter (2 Nov 2007)

I do apologise, 

I'll do a hundred lines to read "must read properly, _then_ post ressponse "


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## ChrisW (2 Nov 2007)

Nice idea, and i've got a couple of front lights i could photograph..

But as a bona fide tech dinosaur i wouldn't stand a chance of getting a photo posted on here.

Sorry!


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## bonj2 (2 Nov 2007)

sjb said:


> Anyone know where you can get the AYUP's in the UK?



can only be ordered from australia.


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## bonj2 (2 Nov 2007)

Arch said:


> Sorry, no pics yet, but I wanted to share with you my brain addled state.
> 
> I saw the pic taken in the hall way, and realised that I also have a hallway in which I can get total darkness for the pic. Great. I'm about to switch between my summer bike and my winter bike - the one in use lives down in the lobby, the other in the flat.
> 
> ...


To illustrate the power of the dynamo lights, you'll have to ride it fast into a dark corridor while holding the camera and take a photo whilst pedalling.






Sorry couldn't help suggesting that


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## bonj2 (2 Nov 2007)

Panter said:


> Sorry guys but its gonna make a huge difference unless its done with the same camera each time. You'll get a rough idea but no better than that.
> 
> As said before, shutter speed, ISO setting and the lense will be very variable before you even start factoring in the different light processing cells in the cameras, which metering system and settings etc.
> 
> ...



You will get an idea, but like User says if everyone does more than one light and uses the same camera settings and location for both shots, then from each person's pictures you'll get an idea of how much better one light is than another. If multiple people use the same light then this will enable you to link the comparisons, even if all it proves is that most lights are better than an EL530


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## Arch (2 Nov 2007)

bonj said:


> You will get an idea, but like User says if everyone does more than one light and uses the same *camera settings and location *for both shots, then from each person's pictures you'll get an idea of how much better one light is than another. If multiple people use the same light then this will enable you to link the comparisons, even if all it proves is that most lights are better than an EL530



You'll never all fit in my hallway.... 


And I don't have an EL530...

Yeah, I think I might just not bother with the dynamo lights...


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## Cycling Naturalist (2 Nov 2007)

I've been commuting with a 40 watt halogen on the bar and a 10 watt halide on my helmet. The halide is much better.


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## Panter (2 Nov 2007)

Yup, guilty as charged.

I just didn't read through the thread properly.


I have a cateye light at home, and a decent camera but I'm not sure if the cateye is the control model. I'll have a look when I get home and stick up a piccy of my main light if it is.

cheers

Chris


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## bonj2 (2 Nov 2007)

Patrick Stevens said:


> I've been commuting with a 40 watt halogen on the bar and a 10 watt halide on my helmet. The halide is much better.



40 watt?!    _Forty!_ as in, four, zero?


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## piedwagtail91 (2 Nov 2007)

you need to take the photos in more or less the same surroundings. the reults willbe different for the same light if one pic. is taken outside in total darkness with no reflective surfaces and the other is taken in a white painted hallway where all the light is being relected around.

i'm looking forward to the results. i've got an el530 but nothing to compare it with.


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## Cycling Naturalist (2 Nov 2007)

bonj said:


> 40 watt?!    _Forty!_ as in, four, zero?




Yep.  I had it made to order by Rooster from C+. The run time is about 30 minutes, but as my commute is 26 minutes, that's no problem. It cost about £20, but the battery pack was separate and about £50.

I think Rooster sells lights on eBay. They are simple, but remarkably good. I think Simoncc uses one.


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## Arch (2 Nov 2007)

Patrick Stevens said:


> Yep.  I had it made to order by Rooster from C+. *The run time is about 30 minutes, but as my commute is 26 minutes, that's no problem.* It cost about £20, but the battery pack was separate and about £50.
> 
> I think Rooster sells lights on eBay. They are simple, but remarkably good. I think Simoncc uses one.




It's like a reverse of the saying - the lights are out, but someone is home...


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## Spoked Wheels (3 Nov 2007)

Here there are a few lights for comparison Not that many but it helps to form an idea I think. 

Rick


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## Elmer Fudd (3 Nov 2007)

doyler78 said:


> Ok guess I'll go first then:
> 
> Cateye EL-530 first up using new duracell plus batteries:
> 
> ...



Well to be honest, cannot see jack shite from your first 2 piccys with the EL-530, but I'm well, well impressed with the AY-UPS.
Now I need to see how the smarts BL 201's compare to these as to be honest the AY-UPS are well out my price league at the mo.

For a comparison on lights you need to set your different cameras on to a manual setting of say, aperture at 4.5, shutter speed at 1/30 second with the light pointing at a neutral coloured wall from say 10'. That way all pictures will have the same amount of light exposure. 

Also to get a semblance of consistency I would suggest stand astride your back wheel and rest your elbows on your "cheek bones" of your saddle to take your pictures.

We are not looking for a technically correct exposed photograph here, just the amount of light a given set up would show at this exposure (i.e, light spread).

All the things being equal, the brighter lights will obviously give us a brighter circle of light.


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## bonj2 (3 Nov 2007)

I got the BLT firewire today and have been out for a ride this evening in the dark on some fairly minor country lanes, and I have to say it's quite good actually.
It's not exactly like a floodlight like when you've got full beam on when driving, but it casts enough of a beam to see where you're going, which is the main thing. Prob'ly not really wide enough a beam or bright enough for MTBing, and darkness still a bit of a burden on fast road descents and/or where there's lots of tight bends, but it DOES light the way, and that's the main thing.
One thing I have to say about it is it does seem extremely well made, the battery case and the light body are really nice polished/'mottled' metal, and are very light, looks great and is very elegant and sleek. The 'stick' battery holder fits onto a pump bracket like I thought it would do, and the 'coil' cable is just about the right length.
Some reviews said the mounting was a bit flimsy - while it is fairly thin plastic, and the method of fastening the strap isn't the best in the world (it just 'clicks' through like a cable tie but that can go both ways) it does attach well enough. I thought it was going to be a bit of an arse removing it from the bike every time because the light itself doesn't unclip from the mounting, but it's actually fairly easy to unscrew it at the front and remove the mounting that way with the strap still fastened, and it does up again tight enough. Only real problem I encountered is that it kept pointing itself too much to the left 'cos it's touching on my cables and it does swivel fairly easily, I think this is 'cos it's fairly light really - but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to sort this problem out.

Beam shots compared with smart polaris 2:
here is the smart polaris 2 (5 LED):






BLT firewire 4:





You can see how when shone at a darkened, not particularly reflective object, like this corner of a wall in an overgrown yard, it's clear that the smart polaris throws off little sub-beams at angles to the main one, due to the optic it uses and the fact that it's got 5 smaller LEDs as opposed to 1 bright one.
But, the smart polaris 2, while nice for commuting in lit areas, when I tried to use (well, _did_ use it) on dark country lanes I got the feeling I was cycling blindly and randomly into the blackness, while with the BLT i did have a reasonable enough idea of what was ahead in order to go along at normal pace.


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## bonj2 (3 Nov 2007)

Elmer Fudd said:


> For a comparison on lights you need to set your different cameras on to a manual setting of say, *aperture at 4.5, shutter speed at 1/30 second *with the light pointing at a neutral coloured wall from say 10'. That way all pictures will have the same amount of light exposure.



I just took the easy option and put my camera in its 'night' mode preset


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## kyuss (3 Nov 2007)

piedwagtail91 said:


> you need to take the photos in more or less the same surroundings. the reults willbe different for the same light if one pic. is taken outside in total darkness with no reflective surfaces and the other is taken in a white painted hallway where all the light is being relected around.



This is a very good point, which is why Domd1979's EL530 shot looks so much brighter than Doyler 78's. The conditions are totally different. Putting aside issues over camera types/settings, there should at least be some kind of rules put in place concerning the condition the shots are taken under or there really can't be any meaningful comparison.

Personally I'm not too bothered about how well my light illuminates a room or what shape the beam makes on a wall. I think most would agree that when we're doing 20-30mph the best thing a light could do would be to light up the ground in front of you for as far as possible. So, maybe the best thing would be if all shots are taken outside in a place that isn't directly lit by other means (ie back garden/park/canal towpath) with the light pointed at the ground a decent distance in front (maybe 10-15ft, more if you have powerful lights) so that it's possible to see how much use these things would be in real cycling conditions. 

I'll try and get a picture of my Electron 5w+10w halogens up at some point in the next week.


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## bonj2 (3 Nov 2007)

kyuss said:


> Personally I'm not too bothered about how well my light illuminates a room or what shape the beam makes on a wall. I think most would agree that when we're doing 20-30mph the best thing a light could do would be to light up the ground in front of you for as far as possible. So, maybe the best thing would be if all shots are taken outside in a place that isn't directly lit by other means (ie back garden/park/canal towpath) with the light pointed at the ground a decent distance in front (maybe 10-15ft, more if you have powerful lights) so that it's possible to see how much use these things would be in real cycling conditions.



I think basically as dark as possible, and the same conditions/location for each of the two lighs you compare. That will certainly give a good comparison between the lights that each person who's got two or more lights does.
I don't think there's ever been much hope of drawing a particularly accurace comparison between one person's photos of one light and another person's photo of a different light, but you can certainly say so-and-so light is X times better than the other light.


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## Elmer Fudd (3 Nov 2007)

bonj said:


> I just took the easy option and put my camera in its 'night' mode preset


Just trying to make it a legit comparison bonj !!


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## doyler78 (3 Nov 2007)

OK,

Happy to go again. I now know how to setup my camera manually. If anyone can agree on what setting I should be using.

The option I have available are: 
With Manual Exposure On which allows me to set the:
f spot to 2.8 or 4.7 and 
Shutter Speed ranges from 15 secs to 1/1000 sec.

Other menu options are:
White Balance - Auto, Daylight, Cloudy, Fluo, Tungsten.
ISO Speed: Auto, 50, 100, 200, 400
Saturation: -2 to +2
Contrast: -2 to +2
Sharpness: -2 to +2
All the RGB Colour channels: -2 to +2

This is only a compact camera so not the same range of manual control as I am sure some you have with your cameras. I can only work with what I have.

Haven't a clue what they all do but if you all can agree what we should be using I will plug them in a shoot again.


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## Elmer Fudd (3 Nov 2007)

doyler78 said:


> OK,
> 
> Happy to go again. I now know how to setup my camera manually. If anyone can agree on what setting I should be using.
> 
> ...



Just my suggestions as I only have a Smart Polaris 3 l.e.d headlamp and no digi camera to partake in this comparison thread !!


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## ajc (3 Nov 2007)

Doyler78, thanks for the piccies, I'd read the thread on the dinotte/cat eye debate and saw you were impressed with the AY UPS and decided to take the plunge yesterday, your piccies certainly seem to back up what you were saying. The price of the roadie kit looks good value !


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## doyler78 (3 Nov 2007)

ajc said:


> Doyler78, thanks for the piccies, I'd read the thread on the dinotte/cat eye debate and saw you were impressed with the AY UPS and decided to take the plunge yesterday, your piccies certainly seem to back up what you were saying. The price of the roadie kit looks good value !



Hope you find them as good as me. Let me know what you think when you get them.

ORIGINAL POST UPDATED WITH YET ANOTHER SET OF PHOTOS TO TRY GIVE MORE DETAIL IN THE CATEYE'S. I TRIED LOTS OF DIFFERENT SETTINGS INCLUDING THOSE SUGGESTED AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT GIVES ME THE MOST LIGHT IN THE EL-530 WITHOUT COMPLETELY BLEACHING OUT THE AYUPS WHEN I TOOK THEIR PICTURE.


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## Elmer Fudd (4 Nov 2007)

sjb said:


> Anyone know where you can get the AYUP's in the UK?


(Thinks) would it be worthwhile setting up a distributor service ??


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## doyler78 (4 Nov 2007)

Elmer Fudd said:


> (Thinks) would it be worthwhile setting up a distributor service ??



Totally agree. They need to find a distributor in this country as buying from Australia will clearly put some people off as well as the ambiguities over whether VAT, Customs and Handling Fees are going to charged once imported ie nobody has a clue what the final cost will be let alone the potential costs involved in resolving any problems. I made my decision knowing all the pitfalls for some they will be just too great to risk.

I haven't been charged anything extra yet however I know that this is still a distinct possibility. I believe it could be anything up to £40.

There are lights which I seen mentioned out of New Zealand which are challenging Ayup in the Southern Hemisphere and it is only a matter of time before the UK comes up with their own version of these lights which will make importation expensive. If Ayup are to be able to compete then they need to get a distributor network for the UK setup asap or they will simply miss the boat in my opinion.


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## magnatom (6 Nov 2007)

I got my Busch and Muller Ixon IQ light delivered yesterday. It looks considerably brighter than my Cateye EL-500 (How does this compare to the EL530) and seems to have a wider throw than the cateye. It feels well built and I like the LED battery indicator. It came with a charger that plugs into the light and 4 AA rechargeable batteries (2100mAh). 

I will try and compare the lights tonight when I ride home and I will try and post the results tomorrow. It might be video rather than camera footage, but I will still give an idea of what the light is like.


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## sjb (7 Nov 2007)

bonj said:


> can only be ordered from australia.



Actually, since I posted I looked at their website and they include a separate shop for the UK with prices in good old £'s. 

http://www.ayup.com.au/uk-shop-kits.html

Their "roadie" kit sells for £100 which looks like good value to me.....

Dear Santa.....


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## bonj2 (7 Nov 2007)

yeah but they have to be delivered from oz.


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## doyler78 (7 Nov 2007)

sjb bonj is quite right.

The UK shop is a bit misleading I feel as it gives people the impression that it is UK based. It is not. It is only there to make pricing transparent. The price DOES NOT include any VAT, customs or shipping courier (TNT) handling charges. Whether you get hit with these is hit or miss.

I so far have not however it can take several weeks after the delivery in order to receive the bill so it may still arrive. The costs I believe could be anything up to £40 so you should factor that into your calcs but worth every penny in my opinion.


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## ajc (7 Nov 2007)

I'm currently tracking my order, I ordered it very late on friday 2nd Nov and it was sorted out on monday 5th Nov, current status is

05 Nov 2007 22:23 Brisbane Shipped From Originating Depot 
05 Nov 2007 21:19 Brisbane Consignment Received At Transit Point 
05 Nov 2007 16:51 Brisbane Consignment Picked Up 

I'm hoping it will be in the UK by tonight (if its anything like Doyler78's consignment) and I hope to have it by friday. As has been said already, I may or may not, get hit with VAt, customs etc.... we'll wait and see....


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## ajc (7 Nov 2007)




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## magnatom (7 Nov 2007)

I see everone is going for the ayups now . However here is my comparison of the Busch and Muller Ixon IQ (£64.50) from dotbike compared to my old Cateye EL500. 



I tested it on a canal tow path which is quite dark (and slightly off my normal commute). I would ride along here quite happily with the Ixon, but certainly not with the EL500. 

I am very happy with the IXON for the price and I think it is a much better buy than the EL500 and I assume the EL530. Does someone have a comparison of the EL500 and EL530 to confirm this?


The helmet camera does not bad considering how dark this path is!!


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## ajc (7 Nov 2007)

Well at the end of the day, if you are happy with your light and you are happy with what the price, then thats all that matters. I was getting to the stage of being overloaded by all the lights available. 

I had thought I was going to have to spend around £240 for a front light and £150 for a back light.

In the end I plumped for the AY UP at the front which is £100 and I have an EL410 helmet light. I have couple of rear Cateye LD610s at £15 each and I've cleaned up an old cateye rear light which is big and has just one very bright setting and sits on the seatpost.

I'm happy with that.

And my AY UP has now reached Heathrow


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## doyler78 (7 Nov 2007)

the race is on. looks like ajc is edging out in front.....

Whooah they will just arrive in time for the gales


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## ajc (9 Nov 2007)

And my lights arrived this morning, 5 days after they left OZ , unfortunately the package didn't have my name on it and was refused by our receptionist. So I have had to chase TNT up to see if they will attempt another delivery today and to add my name to it which is unlikely, I think I will have to wait until monday now. Bummer !


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## ajc (9 Nov 2007)

Doyler78, do you think you can still get charged VAT, customs duty etc. for the items even after delivery.
I would have thought you would have to pay the charge up front rather than after the event. 
Its not something I know about as I don't get items delivered every day from OZ but I wondered whether it would be easy for the companies to prove you actually received the package. Just a thought


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## ajc (9 Nov 2007)

Well, when they eventually turn up I'll have a look to see if your name is on them 

But I'm not holding out much hope for you


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## HJ (9 Nov 2007)

Going back to the original theme of the thread, I thought I would throw this into the mix http://www.u.arizona.edu/~sandiway/bike/lighting/ and this http://www.gearreview.com/2006_led_lights.php. Not an Ozzy in sight...


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## doyler78 (9 Nov 2007)

ajc said:


> Doyler78, do you think you can still get charged VAT, customs duty etc. for the items even after delivery.
> I would have thought you would have to pay the charge up front rather than after the event.
> Its not something I know about as I don't get items delivered every day from OZ but I wondered whether it would be easy for the companies to prove you actually received the package. Just a thought


#

You certainly can. If it were being delivered by Royal Mail they will normally collect before delivery however normal practice, from all accounts, with TNT is to bill afterwards.

Aparently they will just black list you from ever receiving a parcel again if you don't pay.

Too bad about missing the delivery. The delivery guy here didn't even ask me to sign for it so I could have claimed non delivery however I'm always happy to pay for something if I really want it.


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## kyuss (9 Nov 2007)

> I'm still in with a shot then. My package isn't even on the tracking page yet though, so I doubt it.



I only ordered my Ay-Ups on Tuesday and they are already on their way. Are you clicking the 'Track International Shipment' link to the left of the box before putting your tracking number in? The link that Ay-Up sent me takes me to TNT's domestic tracking page and the number doesn't work in that.


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## doyler78 (9 Nov 2007)

kyuss said:


> I only ordered my Ay-Ups on Tuesday and they are already on their way. Are you clicking the 'Track International Shipment' link to the left of the box before putting your tracking number in? The link that Ay-Up sent me takes me to TNT's domestic tracking page and the number doesn't work in that.



Second that. Confused me too


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## HJ (9 Nov 2007)

I got a couple of questions about the Ay-Ups, I have read that they are attached using cable ties, are you worried about getting them nicked? Also there is no on off switch, you just unplug the battery?


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## Elmer Fudd (9 Nov 2007)

sjb said:


> Actually, since I posted I looked at their website and they include a separate shop for the UK with prices in good old £'s.
> 
> http://www.ayup.com.au/uk-shop-kits.html
> 
> ...


But that's still buying from Oz, I'm gonna e-mail them and see what I could do. First question though, how many people interested in these lights ??


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## doyler78 (9 Nov 2007)

Hairy Jock said:


> I got a couple of questions about the Ay-Ups, I have read that they are attached using cable ties, are you worried about getting them nicked? Also there is no on off switch, you just unplug the battery?



They are indeed. However it is only the bike mount that is secured with the cable ties. The lights are actually attached to the mount with an integrated strap which goes over the light and attaches to the back of the mount and thus hold it in place. So no worries at the other end. You simply pull the rubber strap off the hook and lift the lights off. Really simple.

There is no on/off switch at present however one with this facility will be able available at the end of this month I think.

Personally it so easy to pull the battery chord off and to put it on that it really isn't an issue for me and given that if you get any of the kits you will get a 6 hour battery then there is really no issue in just leaving it plugged in either.


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## doyler78 (9 Nov 2007)

> The thing that sold these to me is the fact that they offer upgrades to previous buyers at cost. I wonder whether they will with the batteries?



Yeah that's good however when you factor in shipping costs and possible customs, vat and yet more handling charges this isn't necessarily going to be cheap.


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## ajc (13 Nov 2007)

My AY UP lights have turned up today 

WOW ! They are so small but they don't half put out a lot of light.
I'm very impressed with them even before they've gone on the bike. I shall try that either tonight or tomorrow. 
I might even attempt a picture or two


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## kyuss (13 Nov 2007)

Yah! Mine have arrived too. I new they were small but bloody hell! They're tiny.

I will try and get a few pics up in the next day or two comparing them with my Electron 10w halogen.


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## doyler78 (13 Nov 2007)

You mean I'm not the only one any more. I'm becoming common 

I know you will not be disappointed.

Actually got my second best commute home time of the year using these tonight  and for someone who has never done any night riding before I bought these I think this says a lot for the confidence they have inspired in me. In fact my brother passed me on the way home and said I was lit up like a Christmas tree thanks to my two cateye's (TL-1100 and TL LD-610 rear lights), rear reflector, hi-vis ankle straps and arm bands, hi-vis seems on my tights, and of course the star my ayups which my brother thought was a motorbike until he got closer and realised it was actually my good self.


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## bonj2 (14 Nov 2007)

did all you lot who have recently got your ayups have to pay any tax or import charges?


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## bonj2 (14 Nov 2007)

change your avatar NOW to something other than my avatar or putin. That is not a request it is an order.


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## Aperitif (14 Nov 2007)

will the real avatar please stand up... (that is funny MP)


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## doyler78 (14 Nov 2007)

Not other charges yet.


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## HJ (15 Nov 2007)

Ok, now I am impressed...


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## HJ (15 Nov 2007)

Ok, now I am impressed...


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## Valiant (17 Nov 2007)

Cam specs as above.

The space in between the pillars is 4 metres. So the back wall is roughly 16 metres back.

Cateye EL530







Dinotte 600L






Bonus shot.


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## HJ (18 Nov 2007)

Thats it the DiNotte 600L and 140L are defiantly going on my xmas list...


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## mikeitup (18 Nov 2007)

*re*

The ayup roadie kit is on my xmas list.


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## mikeitup (18 Nov 2007)

> Well, I've finally managed to get some decent comparison pictures. I copied Doyler 78's camera settings-
> 
> f2.8
> speed 1/4
> ...




BTW, Mr Paul.
What beam did you choose?


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## doyler78 (18 Nov 2007)

> The middle one. It's a bit confusing because they have intermediate and medium, and without checking the site I can't remember which is the middle one.



The middle one is intermediate,

It goes narrow, intermediate, medium beam from narrowest beam spread to widest.


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## mikeitup (19 Nov 2007)

*re*

Just ordered my AYUPS!!!!!!!!!!!! 


I did e-mail them about Rear lights. They said they have not decided yet but are thinking about it.
Come on guys send e-mails asking about rear lights!


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## doyler78 (19 Nov 2007)

Welcome to the club (or soon to be anyway).

To be honest I am pretty happy with my cateye's for the rear. Anyone that has been behind me has told me that they had no problem in seeing me and along with the high viz stuff I'm pretty happy. Went for the front light from ayup because it offered the best bang for your buck in my opinion. Unless you are buying at the same time it is unlikely that any rear would be able to compete when delivery and custom, etc charges are factored in. If you want really bright just get the dinnotte rear which is very good and if bought in the UK customer service is much simpler.

Just my opinion.


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## doyler78 (19 Nov 2007)

> doyler,
> 
> Did you get any instructions with your lights?



No - I got the instructions of the website.

Here's the link.

http://www.ayup.com.au/howto.html


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## doyler78 (19 Nov 2007)

Check this out:

http://www.ayup.com.au/uk-whatsnew.php

Looks good now. Any warranty probs and ayup will deal with it via email and if it is deemed that they need them back they take care of the freight costs. This is something which very few national, let alone international, suppliers offer.

Plus they have tried as best they can to clarify costs here but still the ambiguities exist however with the warranty returns cleared up this makes these more attracrtive now to those that had previously dithered because of their concerns about costs involved in rectifying probs after delivery.


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## mikeitup (20 Nov 2007)

mikeitup said:


> Just ordered my AYUPS!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> ICan't have 'em til xmas, though.


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## doyler78 (20 Nov 2007)

Absolutely pelted down the whole way home tonight so a good chance to really try them out in really ugly weather and they stood up great. Only thing I had probs with was picking out puddles. Because of their transparent nature I couldn't tell them from the road and ended up ploughing through a couple of rather large puddles.

The lower half of me was totally soaked. Even my overshoes, which normally keep my feet from getting soaked, didn't stand a chance and my feet were wringing wet but I loved the journey home. Is that just weird?


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## Elmer Fudd (20 Nov 2007)

This has probably been asked before but, what duty do you get hit for, if any ?


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## doyler78 (20 Nov 2007)

I know some people on other forums have got hit with the duty however no one on here seems to have got hit, including myself. My link in the previous post explains the situation as far as ayup can determine it. Its probably as close as you will get to answer because it is so hit and miss. Just expect to pay it and hope not too. That's what I did anyway.


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## mikeitup (21 Nov 2007)

*re*

knowing my luck, TNT won't absorb mine


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## longers (21 Nov 2007)

I've just had a look and they're showing no stock, at all!

I hope they ran out after processing the order I made yesterday.


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## longers (27 Nov 2007)

I got my order today. 




Oh





My







Giddy








Aunt!

 They are incredible ​


I will have to be very considerate of oncoming traffic when using them on the road and they were superb off road. I'll have to write me a thankyou letter.


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## papercorn2000 (27 Nov 2007)

Mines are also an Xmas pressie, however, I have had a wee look! I am going to burning people's paintwork come the new year!

(And no VAT bill yet)


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## bonj2 (27 Nov 2007)

> On posted on the other thread, but I arrived at work this morning to a letter from TNT. they want £42.
> 
> Oh well. They're still worth it.



well if they've already delivered the lights y ou could just not bother paying it, at least until they get arsey. They might not bother and drop it.


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## doyler78 (28 Nov 2007)

bonj said:


> well if they've already delivered the lights y ou could just not bother paying it, at least until they get arsey. They might not bother and drop it.



From what I have been told they will not persue however your address goes on a blacklist and they will refuse to deliver anything in future therefore that precludes you from using any online retailer who uses TNT and also as you have used your work address then it is likely that your organisation will be blacklisted. They will not be impressed I bet


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## ajc (29 Nov 2007)

I've just received a letter from TNT, they wanted £31.54 from me, which I've just paid. I did ask what would have happened if I hadn't paid up, and I was told " we can't disclose that, but for such a small sum we probably wouldn't have bothered" , however they may have pursued it and I don't mind paying the extra £30 for such great lights.


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## doyler78 (29 Nov 2007)

ajc said:


> I've just received a letter from TNT, they wanted £31.54 from me, which I've just paid. I did ask what would have happened if I hadn't paid up, and I was told " we can't disclose that, but for such a small sum we probably wouldn't have bothered" , however they may have pursued it and I don't mind paying the extra £30 for such great lights.



As a matter of interest how long is it since you received yours ie trying to work how long is the most you will have to wait before you can breathe a sigh of relief.


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## ajc (30 Nov 2007)

It was 11 days, I got the lights on 9th Nov, TNT letter was dated 20th, but the letter spent 10 days doing the rounds at various Company offices down south before arriving on my doorstep yesterday. Wished I hadn't check my mail box now !


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## doyler78 (30 Nov 2007)

ajc said:


> It was 11 days, I got the lights on 9th Nov, TNT letter was dated 20th, but the letter spent 10 days doing the rounds at various Company offices down south before arriving on my doorstep yesterday. Wished I hadn't check my mail box now !



Thanks ajc - mine were sent on 24 Oct arriving the following week so had them before the end of October. Guess I really have got away with it and breathe easier now.


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## mikeitup (30 Nov 2007)

you jammy bugger


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## doyler78 (30 Nov 2007)

mikeitup said:


> you jammy bugger





Why you got hit already. You only got yours very recently. How much you get charged?


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## mikeitup (30 Nov 2007)

doyler78 said:


> Why you got hit already. You only got yours very recently. How much you get charged?




Not yet, but knowing my run of luck lately.................


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## mikeitup (3 Dec 2007)

*re*

Got a letter at work today from TNT.

I owe 'em £35.00.

Might not pay and see what happens


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## mikeitup (3 Dec 2007)

on the other hand the lights are worth it...


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## mikeitup (3 Dec 2007)

It is odd isn't it?


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## doyler78 (3 Dec 2007)

mikeitup said:


> It is odd isn't it?



Don't mean to dance on all your graves but I didn't 

Sorry couldn't resist or maybe its lost in the post


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## ajc (3 Dec 2007)

I think you'll be safe now Doyler, but thanks for letting us know you've not paid any excess 

On a happier note, and I think I'll open up a thread, I did my first commute in 8 months today and cycling home on an un-lit towpath I had my Ay-Ups on, it really was like cycling in daylight, absolutely fantastic lights, they made a huge difference


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## doyler78 (3 Dec 2007)

ajc said:


> I think you'll be safe now Doyler, but thanks for letting us know you've not paid any excess
> 
> On a happier note, and I think I'll open up a thread, I did my first commute in 8 months today and cycling home on an un-lit towpath I had my Ay-Ups on, it really was like cycling in daylight, absolutely fantastic lights, they made a huge difference



Totally agree. As someone who never cycled in the dark as I thought it was just plain foolishness I was really surprised at just how good the lights would be. To be honest I thought I was going to end up just using them in fading light. I love night riding now even when the other cars blind me with full beams!!! Still would really love a helmet mounted one in narrow beam just so I can blind them back and see my gears, hrm, etc. Will buy next year after christmas.


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## BentMikey (4 Dec 2007)

I have a Fenix P3D and a Cateye EL-530 on my 'bent. The light is great on unlit country lanes, when there are no cars around. When there are, ARRRRGGHHH! Of course it was partly my fault for taking a very busy unlit road, being Layhams Road to Salt Box Hill in Biggin Hill. And my mirrors made the cars behind me almost as bad as the ones in front, I had to sit up to avoid being blinded.


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## abchandler (4 Dec 2007)

Stock due in 5th Dec according to Ayup website


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## mikeitup (4 Dec 2007)

doyler78 said:


> Don't mean to dance on all your graves but I didn't
> 
> Sorry couldn't resist or maybe its lost in the post







mikeitup said:


> you jammy bugger



I think this still applies


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## doyler78 (7 Dec 2007)

Guess what landed on my desk in work today?

TNT bill for £46.54.

Interesting to note the invoice date says 07/11/07 and due date 14/11/07 however the date at the bottom says the invoice was actually printed on 28 November 2007.

Looks like I have got my just desserts for crowing about not getting charged 

Also looks like I have got the highest bill of all 

Ahh well guess I will just have to stump up though they didn't take my signature when they delivered. The delivery guy said it didn't matter. So maybe? POD is what we would say in work if some came after us for money - prove you delivered first is what we say.


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## mikeitup (8 Dec 2007)

*re*



doyler78 said:


> Guess what landed on my desk in work today?
> 
> TNT bill for £46.54.
> 
> ...



Never mind mate. at least we got some bloody good lights for our money


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## levad (10 Dec 2007)

Any chance that someone from TNT is following this thread (no, I don't work for them!).

The AYUP lights sound fantastic but at the moment I cannot justify/afford the cost (or the import duty). The wife says "you've got lights already".


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