# Cyclists who use strobe lights are...



## Leodis (19 Feb 2014)

...Not very polite and are very anti social.

One oncoming today with a van behind him, I was trying to dodge pot holes, keep out of the door zone and watch what the van was doing whilst doing my best impression of Wiggins but was really distracted by this cyclist with a front on strobe flashing, not just blinking but full on '80s rave style, its a good job I am not epileptic.

Nothing wrong with flashers, its the Hiviz 80s rave style strobe which is shite.


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## snorri (19 Feb 2014)

Agreed, and possibly worse if you come up behind such a tail light. Dazzling a driver as you hold them back on a twisting rural road can only encourage the less patient to overtake dangerously.


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## Leodis (19 Feb 2014)

I had a driver the other week pull me about my light been too bright and "dazzling" for him, I polity told him that at least he had seen me, its a 200 lum LD20 torch so not in the same league as these Chinese spot lights on ebay. I can only presume the strobe master had one of these, I was skinned by someone last week with one of these, I was pootling home when I thought a cop car was behind me, I did a check and some twat with a strobe was passing me, I was going to give chase but was blinded by this military grade weapon.


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## gaz (19 Feb 2014)

Lets define some things near the start of the thread so people don't get confused.

A flashing light is any light that flashes, obviously. The legal limit for a bicycle light is 4Hz, which is pretty fast.
A strobe light is a light that flashes very quickly, usually over 8Hz.

A strobe light is bad because it doesn't allow the observers eyes to adjust between each flash to see what is behind the light. So essentially blinds the observer.


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## Leodis (19 Feb 2014)

Thank you Gaz for clearing that one up.


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## maltloaf (19 Feb 2014)

Flashing (at any speed) plus lots of lumens I think is a bad combination. I have a high output front light and the flashing would send you into a trance ! I'm sure cars approaching such a lighting scheme aren't always able to concentrate on other aspects of the road even though they have seen the Blackpool illuminated bike.

I also tilt my front light right down or put my hand over it when cars approach.


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## potsy (19 Feb 2014)

Agree totally about the strobe feature on these bright lights, I have never used mine and never will, way too distracting


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

snorri said:


> Agreed, and possibly worse if you come up behind such a tail light. Dazzling a driver* as you hold them back on a twisting rural road can only encourage the less patient to overtake dangerously.*


Nobber is as nobber does. The gas pedal works two ways and they can choose to drop back if two button cells bother them that much.

Like the "you hold them back" idea. I imagine that is exactly what the nobber-drivers think.


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## ianrauk (19 Feb 2014)

Bad mannered anti-social tossers


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

maltloaf said:


> Flashing (at any speed) plus lots of lumens I think is a bad combination. I have a high output front light and the flashing would send you into a trance ! I'm sure cars approaching such a lighting scheme aren't always able to concentrate on other aspects of the road even though they have seen the Blackpool illuminated bike.
> 
> I also tilt my front light right down or put my hand over it when cars approach.


Drivers. Not cars, car drivers. But it is all much easier when you realise...

Car _drivers_ approaching such a lighting scheme aren't always able to concentrate.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Bad mannered anti-social tossers


and what of the strobe equipped cyclists?


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## L14M (19 Feb 2014)

I have my rear light on a slow flash. 1 flash a second. It gains attention, I am seen. On the front I have 1 4LED oxford light thats on steady and 1 3 LED halfords jobbie thats on flash same as the rear 1 flash per second. These don't blind you, gain your attention and are clear that its a cyclist.


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## Mugshot (19 Feb 2014)

L14M said:


> I have my rear light on a slow flash. 1 flash a second. It gains attention, I am seen. On the front I have 1 4LED oxford light thats on steady and 1 3 LED halfords jobbie thats on flash same as the rear 1 flash per second. These don't blind you, gain your attention *and are clear that its a cyclist*.


This why I stopped having anything flashing on the front of the bike, I don't want people to know that I'm a cyclist, I want people to know that there is something coming towards them. The assumption can be that you wont be travelling at any sort of resonable speed which can lead to drivers misjudging the time they have available to pull out or immediately adopting the MGIF mindset and pulling out because they think they're going to be stuck behind you.
Doesn't it also make judging distances far more difficult if the light is on flash too?


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## sazzaa (19 Feb 2014)

L14M said:


> I have my rear light on a slow flash. 1 flash a second. It gains attention, I am seen. On the front I have 1 4LED oxford light thats on steady and 1 3 LED halfords jobbie thats on flash same as the rear 1 flash per second. These don't blind you, gain your attention and are clear that its a cyclist.


 
I find those lights are a nightmare when driving, it's hard to judge any kind of speed or movement of the cyclist because the flash is too slow!


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## DrLex (19 Feb 2014)

I put my backup front light (Smart 25) on to flash when filtering 50' to a roundabout - I'd rather be annoying & seen than creased.


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## L14M (19 Feb 2014)

sazzaa said:


> I find those lights are a nightmare when driving, it's hard to judge any kind of speed or movement of the cyclist because the flash is too slow!


Good job I wear high vis reflective clothing and even better that i have a static light just above it on my rear and next to it on the front


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## HLaB (19 Feb 2014)

I admit after a series of SMIDSY's I've went a bit overkill on my lights, Smart 35 lux, a Cateye Volt 300 on the front two smart half watts (clipped on to the rear pockets), a seatpost flasher and a Mars 3 (clipped to my saddlebag) is my standard on the road bike for night rides. On the commute I'm a little bit toned down, a smart 25 lux and smart 7led on the front and at least one of the above rear lights perhaps a 2nd depending times.


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## snorri (19 Feb 2014)

DrLex said:


> I'd rather be annoying & seen than creased.


Great, let's do what we can to annoy other road users, it's bound to improve safety all round, not.
Annoyed road users are dangerous road users.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2938086, member: 1314"]I've got standard 'to be seen by' lights for the London roads which tend to be well lit and I can see by streetlight.

Couple of times I've taken a diversion home through RP at night, with no moon, and through the inside road, that goes past the ballet school. It's a 'mare with other cyclists who've probs got their C2W in, and have gone completely overboard with their front and rear lights, inappropriately positioned. When there's 2 heading towards me, for example, I can't see anything except a big blinding white concave cave of doom heading towards me, from which it takes donkeys to get the eyes adjusted again, *before my retina is burnt hell-red by some middle-manager with rear red blinking lasers of death.*

All repeated over and over for 2 or 3 miles until I'm back on the outer road.[/quote]
Oi! Who you callin' a mere middle manager?

Anyways, those rear lights are to discourage wheel huggers.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

More seriously. Being dazzled by the lights of cyclists would be a nice problem to have. For a start it would mean I'm not alone any more. And it would make such a nice change from having my eyeballs burnt out of my head by the full-beams of the local "comin' through" wankpanzers such that I have to stop due to temporary blindness.


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2014)

You ain't seen my rear lights. @potsy has (from a car), and he's not been the same since !


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## Schneil (19 Feb 2014)

There is a line to be drawn between being visible and causing a visual distraction.
For example I have my Magicshine MJ808 usually pointed slightly down, like a dipped headlight.
I never have it on flash. Too distracting for me on the bike, I'd hate to be in the oncoming beam on this setting. I do have a less bright lenzyne micro as a flasher though.

I think we all should get someone else to ride our bike round the corner, towards and away from us. That way we can get a good idea of how our lights look to another road user.
Please be aware as you get older, your eyes age.
So more lens opacities = light scatter at night and disability glare.
Also a much slower glare recovery time, so it would take a 70 year old much longer to recover from being dazzled than a 20 year old.

Bear in mind advances in LED technology have meant we can have crazy bright lights. Which are not always a good thing!


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## Mr Peps (19 Feb 2014)

maltloaf said:


> Flashing (at any speed) plus lots of lumens I think is a bad combination. I have a high output front light and the flashing would send you into a trance ! I'm sure cars approaching such a lighting scheme aren't always able to concentrate on other aspects of the road even though they have seen the Blackpool illuminated bike.
> 
> I also tilt my front light right down or put my hand over it when cars approach.


 
Agree with you with one exception.
I have one of those T6 lights and will have it on flash when it’s gloomy / dusk when it gets you noticed a lot more than on steady and isn’t distracting or blinding.
In these conditions in towns or cities there is too much other light for a steady beam to stand out.
Yes it’s angled down and goes on steady as soon as it gets darker.


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## numbnuts (19 Feb 2014)

I like flashing


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## Leodis (19 Feb 2014)

Mr Peps said:


> Agree with you with one exception.
> I have one of those* T6 lights and will have it on flash when it’s gloomy / dusk when it gets you noticed a lot more than on steady and isn’t distracting or blinding.*
> In these conditions in towns or cities there is too much other light for a steady beam to stand out.
> Yes it’s angled down and goes on steady as soon as it gets darker.



I disagree, the plonker this morning could have put me under a vans wheels because of his silly strobe front light. I tried using my strobe on my Fenix LD20 and I felt so anti-social I popped it back on full beam.


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2014)

A T6/U2 light is only OK when its a steady on/off flash. The disco speed is blinding !! Really, I own a few of them. Magicshine 808 and the Solar Storm 2xU2 are the only ones that flash at a reasonable speed. My T6 clone and Yinding 2xU2 strobe and you can't use it.


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## classic33 (19 Feb 2014)

Leodis said:


> ...Not very polite and are very anti social.
> 
> One oncoming today with a van behind him, I was trying to dodge pot holes, keep out of the door zone and watch what the van was doing whilst doing my best impression of Wiggins but was really distracted by this cyclist with a front on strobe flashing, not just blinking but full on '80s rave style, its a good job I am not epileptic.
> 
> Nothing wrong with flashers, its the Hiviz 80s rave style strobe which is s***e.


Speaking as someone who suffers with/from epilepsy, I feel you're misinformed over the effect of strobe/flashing lights and their effect on people like myself & the condition itself. Flicker epilepsy accounts for a small proportion of those with the condition. And even smaller percentage would be effected by the frequency used on bike lights.
Or are you just tarring all those with epilepsy with the same brush?


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## Mr Peps (19 Feb 2014)

Leodis said:


> I disagree, the plonker this morning could have put me under a vans wheels because of his silly strobe front light. I tried using my strobe on my Fenix LD20 and I felt so anti-social I popped it back on full beam.


 
Sounds bad.
Was it a stupidly powerful light or a really fast strobe effect?
I ride most days and see plenty of other cyclists and I can only think of one time last year when I had a problem *before* it was actually dark (very bright strobe straight in my face).

After dark I’ve had plenty of problems with them but not before apart from that once. Not sure what light that was but it was a lot more powerful than a T6 and the flash was quicker.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Feb 2014)

Reluctant to criticise anyone for their lights given that so many have nothing at all, but a chap who overtook me last week had THE brightest helmet lights on ever. They seemed brighter than your average car light - when he'd overtaken and was in front (a good way in front), I had to look more towards the road because his back red light was at my eye level and just too bright.


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## DWiggy (19 Feb 2014)

I used to have a slow blinkey or solid rear light and had so many close passes it wasn't funny. I got my Moon Shield and have it on strobe (pointed slightly down) and get really wide passes now, and I have never had anyone shout abuse or complain and feel *so* much safer.
BTW My route doesn't take me into any major towns/city and most of my ride is in unlit country roads, and I very rarely see other cyclists.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Feb 2014)

DWiggy said:


> I used to have a slow blinkey or solid rear light and had so many close passes it wasn't funny. I got my Moon Shield and have it on strobe (pointed slightly down) and get really wide passes now, and I have never had anyone shout abuse or complain and feel *so* much safer.
> BTW My route doesn't take me into any major towns/city and most of my ride is in unlit country roads, and I very rarely see other cyclists.


 
Yep, there's definitely happy medium between people not seeing you at all and blinding them  As with anything, you just have to be sensible about it.


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## TonyEnjoyD (19 Feb 2014)

After many close passes and near-misses with cars pulling out, I now use:

TrustFire Cree Q5 230-Lumen LED - one on the bars on flash tilted down to about 2-bike lengths ahead, and the same helmet mounted on fixed but usually on one of the lower settings.
In mid-winter when it's pitch on both to and from work, the Cree on the bars gets switched to my Ultrafire Cree T6 XML 800-Lumen LED.
I switch to fixed beam on unlit side roads and tracks, but again, angled down.

On the rear:
RSP Astrum Twin 1-watt (2x0.5) on flash seat bag or seat post mounted
Smart Helmet rear mount mounted 3-LED on flash
Revolution 2-LED seat-stay low mounted on fixed

I often get comments from colleagues about being so well lit up, however, I then tell them that at least they could see me.

I've still had the odd nobber punishment pass me or just pull out on me, two of the latter EXTREMELY close?


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## wiggydiggy (19 Feb 2014)

Ive stopped using mine on flash except for heavy traffic times where I _think_ it makes a bigger difference when I'm filtering/up the inside in a cycle lane, rest of time its just steady.


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## BlackPanther (19 Feb 2014)

If you have flashing front lights then you are saying to every driver about to emerge form a side road "I'm a cyclist, I'm coming towards you very very slowly, feel free to pull out on me".

I have a very bright 'Cree' front light, with a £3 diffuser to focus it down on to the road. I look more like a motorcycle than a cyclist, and am amazed by how far away I can be, and the cars still wait for me to pass. I do have 2 rear Blackburn 4.0s set on strobe. HOWEVER, I make sure that they're angled correctly so as not to dazzle people behind. It's not rocket science, set the lights on strobe, go behind the trike, and set them up properly---30 seconds every couple of weeks is all it takes.


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## Hitchington (19 Feb 2014)

Are lasers OK?


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## gaz (19 Feb 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> If you have flashing front lights then you are saying to every driver about to emerge form a side road "I'm a cyclist, I'm coming towards you very very slowly, feel free to pull out on me".
> 
> I have a very bright 'Cree' front light, with a £3 diffuser to focus it down on to the road. I look more like a motorcycle than a cyclist, and am amazed by how far away I can be, and the cars still wait for me to pass. I do have 2 rear Blackburn 4.0s set on strobe. HOWEVER, I make sure that they're angled correctly so as not to dazzle people behind. It's not rocket science, set the lights on strobe, go behind the trike, and set them up properly---30 seconds every couple of weeks is all it takes.


The Blackburn mars 4? That doesn't have a strobe mode :S


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## downfader (19 Feb 2014)

Personally speaking I wont use a light brighter than 80 lumens on the rear, prefer it to be 40-50 though. On the front I do use flashers but put the Smart Lunar light on flash - the Exposure Strada is too bright at 800 lumens for the city roads. I tend to put that on the lowest 2 settings, but will use the flash during the day (eg raining or low sun). 

At the moment my main rear is an Exposure Blaze. I use that on flash mode during bad weather and low light. It lasts ages between charges. 

People who use strobe lights (8 flashes a second or more) are a***holes. None of my lights flash more than 4 a second when in use for a reason - because I know I've been distracted by strobes in the past


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2014)

The strobe mode is a high frequency flash, AKA 80's Disco. On a t6 at full brightness it's a mare.


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## GrasB (19 Feb 2014)

I run a 350 lumen rear light on the back of my low racer & it's not objectionable in the least, intact I probably need to drive it a little harder because at close range it can look a bit dim! The reason? It has a surface area of 122.71cm^2, a typical rear back light will have a surface area of 2.54mm^2. If we do the maths that gives my rear light 2.85 lumen 1cm^2 but if you take a 75lumen 1 LED rear you're looking at 30 lumen per 1cm^2! That's car rear HID/brake light range.

That intensity of the *less bright light* means your eye tones down so that the point source isn't overloading its sensing abilities. That makes it very hard to see anything else. However my brighter rear light simply doesn't get that intense, it actually seems to get dimmer the closer you are to it!

The problem with making something that big is that on a conventional bike it's kind of hard to mount a 13.25cm diameter light.


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## rb58 (19 Feb 2014)

Schneil said:


> Please be aware as you get older, your eyes age.


Who'd have thought......!


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## ufkacbln (19 Feb 2014)

classic33 said:


> Speaking as someone who suffers with/from epilepsy, I feel you're misinformed over the effect of strobe/flashing lights and their effect on people like myself & the condition itself. Flicker epilepsy accounts for a small proportion of those with the condition. And even smaller percentage would be effected by the frequency used on bike lights.
> Or are you just tarring all those with epilepsy with the same brush?



I was about to say that the Epilepsy thing is more complex 

It is about a whole range of factors - the only "recorded" incident was where the person was fettling and it may be the intensity at close range rather than the flashing rate that was the cause


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## downfader (19 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> I was about to say that the Epilepsy thing is more complex
> 
> It is about a whole range of factors - the only "recorded" incident was where the person was fettling and it may be the intensity at close range rather than the flashing rate that was the cause



Photo-epilepsy isnt it, when light triggers an attack. IIRC 10hz, and only 1 in 4 of all epileptics suffer from it. And epilepsy itself is pretty rare.


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## buggi (19 Feb 2014)

Mugshot said:


> This why I stopped having anything flashing on the front of the bike, I don't want people to know that I'm a cyclist, I want people to know that there is something coming towards them. The assumption can be that you wont be travelling at any sort of resonable speed which can lead to drivers misjudging the time they have available to pull out or immediately adopting the MGIF mindset and pulling out because they think they're going to be stuck behind you.
> Doesn't it also make judging distances far more difficult if the light is on flash too?


 as a driver i have NEVER not been able to judge the distance or speed of a bike bcoz they had a front or rear flashing light. I think this is a bollox excuse from drivers who need an eye test. (that said, I'm yet to see a strobe light so I'll keep you posted)


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2014)

Buggi the strobe is mental on a T6 light. It's on max light, that will illuminate a field, on mad flash. It's very very bad.

I have a couple of lights and can't ride with it on, never mind anyone else seeing.


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## the_mikey (19 Feb 2014)

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here, but most modern led lamps strobe at something like 16-25Hz , it gives the illusion of a constant bright output but reduces the duty period of the led components saving battery life and extending the life of the led.


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## downfader (19 Feb 2014)

the_mikey said:


> I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here, but most modern led lamps strobe at something like 16-25Hz , it gives the illusion of a constant bright output but reduces the duty period of the led components saving battery life and extending the life of the led.



I think the waveform is the source for those hertz not the oscillation/amplitude of the on-off? I could be wrong.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Feb 2014)

buggi said:


> a*s a driver i have NEVER not been able to judge the distance or speed of a bike bcoz they had a* front or *rear flashing light*. I think this is a bollox excuse from drivers who need an eye test. (that said, I'm yet to see a strobe light so I'll keep you posted)


I used to claim this until quiet recently. Learning otherwise was a sobering experience.


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## the_mikey (19 Feb 2014)

downfader said:


> I think the waveform is the source for those hertz not the oscillation/amplitude of the on-off? I could be wrong.



Maybe the brightness is controlled by the width of the pulse, so a dim light has a low mark space ratio, and the brightness increases as the mark space ratio increases.


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## fossyant (19 Feb 2014)

the_mikey said:


> Maybe the brightness is controlled by the width of the pulse, so a dim light has a low mark space ratio, and the brightness increases as the mark space ratio increases.



Sorry but that's just talking rubbish.

The flash rate is too high on many of these lights.


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## gaz (19 Feb 2014)

GrasB said:


> I run a 350 lumen rear light on the back of my low racer & it's not objectionable in the least, intact I probably need to drive it a little harder because at close range it can look a bit dim! The reason? It has a surface area of 122.71cm^2, a typical rear back light will have a surface area of 2.54mm^2. If we do the maths that gives my rear light 2.85 lumen 1cm^2 but if you take a 75lumen 1 LED rear you're looking at 30 lumen per 1cm^2! That's car rear HID/brake light range.
> 
> That intensity of the *less bright light* means your eye tones down so that the point source isn't overloading its sensing abilities. That makes it very hard to see anything else. However my brighter rear light simply doesn't get that intense, it actually seems to get dimmer the closer you are to it!
> 
> The problem with making something that big is that on a conventional bike it's kind of hard to mount a 13.25cm diameter light.


350lumen rear light? What is it :S


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## classic33 (20 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> I was about to say that the Epilepsy thing is more complex
> 
> It is about a whole range of factors - the only "recorded" incident was where the person was fettling and it may be the intensity at close range rather than the flashing rate that was the cause


I was a welder at one time, and it never triggerered a seizure.
When we get passed the blinkered view that flashing lights can trigger a siezure then we can knock this myth on it head, once and for all.


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## Black Country Ste (20 Feb 2014)

I caught this in December. Never intended as a bike light. Wish I'd said something.



[edited]


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## classic33 (20 Feb 2014)

Black Country Ste said:


> I caught this in December. Ridiculously focussed beam, illegal flash frequency *and could cause epileptic reactions in those affected*. Wish I'd said something.



As could all the headlights coming the over way, one after the other, using that reasoning. Theres the same strobe effect there and the lights are brighter.
See
http://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/photosensitive-epilepsy & https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photosensitive-epilepsy/triggers
I mean can we get rid of these, using the same argument.

The hardest part with living with the bloody thing is peoples preconceptions of the condition. And what may cause the bloody seizure in the first place!
We are not blinking stupid about a condition we suffer from.


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## Black Country Ste (20 Feb 2014)

Fair enough. But you don't disagree that lights like that are a dangerous nuisance?


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## classic33 (20 Feb 2014)

Black Country Ste said:


> Fair enough. But you don't disagree that lights like that are a dangerous nuisance?


Bright headlights on cars in a line of stationary traffic can be just as bad when you're travelling the other way. And the strobe effect is there as well.


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## classic33 (20 Feb 2014)

Health & Safety gone mad is a better way of describing it.
Unless you're well lit up, lights that can be seen for miles have become a basic for anyone buying new lights. And the sad fact is people fall for it.
I have a horse riders vest, LED's built into it. Does it get me noticed at night? I don't think it has once been noticed whilst actually moving on the bike. At a set of lights with a car in the next lane, yes.
I fitted a half million candle power light to the bike when working in Leeds, using it on the unlit sections of the A58, I still got the excuse that my front light wasn't bright enough when I got knocked off by a British Gas van driver. Police disagreed, when one of them went to check it.


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## ufkacbln (20 Feb 2014)

Black Country Ste said:


> I caught this in December. Ridiculously focussed beam, illegal flash frequency and could cause epileptic reactions in those affected. Wish I'd said something.




Difficult to measure the flashing rate, but see above, it is very unlikely to cause an epileptic fit.

According to the British Epilepsy Association there are no recorded cases where a bicycle light has triggered an epileptic fit


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## GrasB (20 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> 350lumen rear light? What is it :S


Grasb ltd. I-can't-find-the-light-I-want-so-I-made-my-own model 
I started off with this 12 LED Osram module which was too intense & ended up getting someone to make up a very similar PCB with lower power LEDs on it.


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## wiggydiggy (20 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> Difficult to measure the flashing rate, but see above, it is very unlikely to cause an epileptic fit.
> 
> According to the British Epilepsy Association there are no recorded cases where a bicycle light has triggered an epileptic fit



Out of interest, how do you measure a lights flash speed?

Tried a couple apps online but they are making a strobe, not measuring.

Thinking something using the camera fucntion on my phone?


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## Black Country Ste (20 Feb 2014)

To save myself a lynching I've edited out the nonsense. Forgive my ignorance.


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## Mugshot (20 Feb 2014)

buggi said:


> as a driver i have NEVER not been able to judge the distance or speed of a bike bcoz they had a front or rear flashing light. I think this is a bollox excuse from drivers who need an eye test. (that said, I'm yet to see a strobe light so I'll keep you posted)


As to whether it's bollox or not I don't honestly know what the facts are. I have certainly read that it makes it more difficult to judge distances when you have a flashing/strobing light approaching you and from my distant memories of shaking my thang in the night clubs of South Wales I certainly remember how a strobe light would create an impression similar to watching a film with frames missing. It made it difficult to dodge punches.
I don't think that changes the fact that there is only one vehicle which you are likely to see with a flashing/strobing front white light, and that's a bicycle. You as a driver are likely to be thinking as a cyclist, most drivers aren't. Some drivers will see bicycle and think slow or obstacle or insignificant and pull out or carry on regardless as a result. When they see me they see _something_ and they wait. The difference in the behaviour of drivers when I am riding at night to during the day is marked. Approaching junctions or riding through single track lanes I am treated in general with far more respect and caution at night, and I am convinced that the reason for it is that from the front I am not advertising the fact that what is approaching them is a bicycle.


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## buggi (20 Feb 2014)

Mugshot said:


> As to whether it's bollox or not I don't honestly know what the facts are. I have certainly read that it makes it more difficult to judge distances when you have a flashing/strobing light approaching you and from my distant memories of shaking my thang in the night clubs of South Wales I certainly remember how a strobe light would create an impression similar to watching a film with frames missing. It made it difficult to dodge punches.
> I don't think that changes the fact that there is only one vehicle which you are likely to see with a flashing/strobing front white light, and that's a bicycle. You as a driver are likely to be thinking as a cyclist, most drivers aren't. Some drivers will see bicycle and think slow or obstacle or insignificant and pull out or carry on regardless as a result. When they see me they see _something_ and they wait. The difference in the behaviour of drivers when I am riding at night to during the day is marked. Approaching junctions or riding through single track lanes I am treated in general with far more respect and caution at night, and I am convinced that the reason for it is that from the front I am not advertising the fact that what is approaching them is a bicycle.


 strobe light maybe but a normal flashing light? If your eyes cant adjust to that then maybe they do need an eyetest! Or, if they cant judge it, they should be more careful until they are within a distance where they can judge it.


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## Danny Tuff (20 Feb 2014)

Leodis said:


> ...Not very polite and are very anti social.
> 
> One oncoming today with a van behind him, I was trying to dodge pot holes, keep out of the door zone and watch what the van was doing whilst doing my best impression of Wiggins but was really distracted by this cyclist with a front on strobe flashing, not just blinking but full on '80s rave style, its a good job I am not epileptic.
> 
> Nothing wrong with flashers, its the Hiviz 80s rave style strobe which is s***e.



This can be annoying - As much as the cyclists that point their bright LED lights parallel with the road, thus blinding anything oncoming.


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## JoeyB (20 Feb 2014)

I had a cyclist behind me on the way home on Monday evening and his front light was just blinding...he was stopped behind me at one point in the queue and I had to adjust my mirrors because it was literally giving me a headache! I hope my lights aren't that blinding when I'm on the bike...I do try and angle the front one down tbf


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## BlackPanther (20 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> The Blackburn mars 4? That doesn't have a strobe mode :S



D'yknow what mate, you may be right. I've always assumed that strobe just meant a light that flashes quickly. The 4.0 does have a fast flash setting which is what I thought was 'strobe' though I accept that maybe it isn't technically 'strobe'.

Wiki says-
A *strobe light* or *stroboscopic lamp*, commonly called a *strobe*, is a device used to produce regular flashes of light. It is one of a number of devices that can be used as a stroboscope. The word originated from the Greek _strobos_, meaning "act of whirling."


A typical commercial strobe light has a flash energy in the region of 10 to 150 joules, and discharge times as short as a few milliseconds, often resulting in a flash power of several kilowatts. Larger strobe lights can be used in “continuous” mode, producing extremely intense illumination.


The light source is commonly a xenon flash lamp, or _flashtube_, which has a complex spectrum and a color temperature of approximately 5,600 kelvins. To obtain colored light, colored gels may be used.

The floors open then, when is a strobe light not a strobe light?


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## JoeyB (20 Feb 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> The floors open then, when is a strobe light not a strobe light?



When its switched off?


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## AndyPeace (20 Feb 2014)

I use a powerful flashing light, not sure if it's a strobe. I use it approaching roundabouts and other similar circumstances, as well as generally in poor daytime visibility. Personally I think the issue is the angle of the lamp not the flash itself. I have more issue with this (a light incorrectly angled will impare your vision, wether it is flashing or not) Far too many cyclists with spot lights too...if your riding on the road there is little to no need for a spot light on a bike, certainly not as your main/only light. If there is a real issue with flashing lights someone ought to let the authourties know, as they have emergency vehicles using flashing lights and travelling at high speeds!


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## gaz (20 Feb 2014)

BlackPanther said:


> D'yknow what mate, you may be right. I've always assumed that strobe just meant a light that flashes quickly. The 4.0 does have a fast flash setting which is what I thought was 'strobe' though I accept that maybe it isn't technically 'strobe'.
> 
> Wiki says-
> A *strobe light* or *stroboscopic lamp*, commonly called a *strobe*, is a device used to produce regular flashes of light. It is one of a number of devices that can be used as a stroboscope. The word originated from the Greek _strobos_, meaning "act of whirling."
> ...


I explain what a strobe is here - 
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cyclists-who-use-strobe-lights-are.150172/#post-2938004


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## CopperBrompton (20 Feb 2014)

AndyPeace said:


> Personally I think the issue is the angle of the lamp not the flash itself.


This.

I have Dinotte lights on the trike, as that's mostly ridden on country lanes where I want to be seen from a long way off. Most of my trike riding is in daylight, where you need very bright lights to be seen, and the strobe mode definitely helps. In that case, I have them angled so they face pretty much straight forward and back.

At night, I angle them down significantly, and switch the front one to pulse rather than strobe.


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## classic33 (20 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> I explain what a strobe is here -
> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cyclists-who-use-strobe-lights-are.150172/#post-2938004


 I'll just add this bit:
_"We can distinguish __LED Strobe Lights__ and __Flashing Lights __from the following several aspects:
Definition
The word "strobe" comes from the Greek "strobos," which means "to spin" or "to whirl." The original stroboscope, the forerunner of the modern strobe light, placed a spinning fan blade-like object in front of a light so the light only became visible when openings in the object passed in front of the beam. Rapidly blocking and unblocking the light mimics flashes on and off, but without a change in intensity. __Flashing lights__, in general, turn on and off due to interrupted power to the light bulb. This means the lamp's filament must repeatedly heat and cool, leading to variations in the light intensity as it fades on and off."_


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## CopperBrompton (20 Feb 2014)

That's not relevant to today's LED lights, though: LEDs are either on or off.


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## L14M (20 Feb 2014)

Trikeman said:


> That's not relevant to today's LED lights, though: LEDs are either on or off.


Well the voltage does effect their brightness.


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## young Ed (20 Feb 2014)

mine aren't very bright and i generally have them on strobe or random flashing as i find it catches motorists eyes more than solid ON lights
Cheers Ed


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## CopperBrompton (20 Feb 2014)

L14M said:


> Well the voltage does effect their brightness.


Sure, but for any given voltage the LED switches on and then switches off: there is no fading up or down as with a filament.


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## MissTillyFlop (20 Feb 2014)

I have one of these deal extreme 1200 lumen jobbies, but I only ever use it on poorly lit roads and then it's pointed at the road to help me see it, rather than people see me (I has a flash and flare for that). (I also use the lower power static light - the Flashing one looks a bit like I imagine the end of days to be)


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## classic33 (21 Feb 2014)

Black Country Ste said:


> To save myself a lynching I've edited out the nonsense. Forgive my ignorance.


You shouldn't have had to do that, or even felt like you needed to.
There are plenty of people out there that are ignorant of the condition, and I'll include myself in that group. I live with it and have had just about every test for it done to date. I'm aware that mine are not caused by flashing/flickering/strobe lights or lighting effects. Trigger remains unknown for me.

For me its the fact that flashing lights & seizures go hand in hand for all who suffer from/live with epilepsy that annoys me.

I'm sorry if you felt the need to edit what you'd posted, because of what I'd posted. No-one should have to feel that way.


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## Black Country Ste (21 Feb 2014)

classic33 said:


> You shouldn't have had to do that, or even felt like you needed to.



Not at all, I'll happily stand corrected after a hike up Mount Stupid, it's just my strange sense of humour at play.


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## classic33 (21 Feb 2014)

Black Country Ste said:


> Not at all, I'll happily stand corrected after a hike up Mount Stupid, it's just my strange sense of humour at play.


 You weren't the only one to say it.


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## Grendel (21 Feb 2014)

I don't mind most flashing lights. What I mind is the ones with a LOOOOOOONG pause between flashes.


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## Crankarm (21 Feb 2014)

All flashing bike lights, front or rear, flashing at whatever frequency should be BANNED. The inconsiderate tossers who use them on the GBW where there is NO traffic and they are riding toward you in total darkness in the middle of nowhere are total selfish muppets.


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## phil-b (21 Feb 2014)

I have a Chinese bright light as described in page one. It has 4 modes. 1 led, 2 led 3 led and 3 led strobe light . It is bright and on full brightness it is great for off road use. the lowest setting is ok (not too bright) for road use. I did use it on strobe setting on Wednesday during the day when it was foggy. After seeing this thread I wont be using the strobe function again. I did make sure it was pointing down to the road and at the time thought "I will be seen and safe like this" but now I can see it may be a distraction.

I also read on this forum a tip saying keep lights on the bike even during the day as they can help in low vis weather such as rain.

I am willing to learn and this forum means I can learn something's before I make mistakes rather than learning from them


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## the_mikey (21 Feb 2014)

I don't mind flashing lights, or even super bright deal extreme death ray lights, I prefer that people use these on our poorly lit and ever more poorly maintained roads and trails than the barely twinkling lights sold in the supermarket. I can guarantee when I'm in my car I won't see your lights unless they're bright.


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## the_mikey (21 Feb 2014)

2942931 said:


> You are fit to drive though?



Regrettably so! (I am not implying that there are any consequences arising from me not seeing a cyclists lights, but just suggesting that brighter lights are a great utility to other road users when it comes to identifying a cyclist on the road from a distance)


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## RHC82 (22 Feb 2014)

I find my flashing light very useful as I’ve had a number of near misses with drivers looking the opposite way when turning out of junctions on cycle lanes – it’s the only thing that will get me noticed in the evenings. Very unnerving to see a car edging out of a junction whilst looking in the wrong direction. Thankfully, my light isn't offensively bright or on hyper flash, although out of courtesy I do put my hand over it if I’m stuck behind stationary traffic.


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## Spokesmann (23 Feb 2014)

I have a Moon 700 with this function, I never use it - epilepsy inducing flash. I thought it was banned in some parts?


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## winjim (23 Feb 2014)

2940499 said:


> Not as annoying as hearing someone say "sorry mate, I didn't see you" though.


Sorry mate, I didn't see you... because I was temporarily blinded by that joker's front light.


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## ufkacbln (23 Feb 2014)

phil-b said:


> I have a Chinese bright light as described in page one. It has 4 modes. 1 led, 2 led 3 led and 3 led strobe light . It is bright and on full brightness it is great for off road use. the lowest setting is ok (not too bright) for road use. I did use it on strobe setting on Wednesday during the day when it was foggy. After seeing this thread I wont be using the strobe function again. I did make sure it was pointing down to the road and at the time thought "I will be seen and safe like this" but now I can see it may be a distraction.
> 
> I also read on this forum a tip saying keep lights on the bike even during the day as they can help in low vis weather such as rain.
> 
> I am willing to learn and this forum means I can learn something's before I make mistakes rather than learning from them




DRL (Daylight Running Lights) are a matter of contention.

As my hours are unreliable, (often requiring me to stay late to deal with a patient or a problem), I always carry lights around with me.

My "guide" is to watch other vehicles and road furniture.

If there is a significant visual gain to using lights, then I will, but otherwise they stay in the bags.

The downside is battery life. My lights will all do a round trip, but some of the smaller batteries only have an hour's life... so if you do use them more than planned - beware of this

Use your own judgement as to when lights would benefit you


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## ufkacbln (23 Feb 2014)

The real problem with cycle lights across the board is in fact poor design.

Car headlights are focused and filtered to give a bright lower bhalf to th ebeam to see with and an upper part that can be seen without blinding others

This is the standard for the MOT:







Bicycle lights just throw out an unfiltered and unfocussed fully rounded beam... hence most of the issues. Most bright bicycle lights would be more friendly if there was a requirement for this shaped and filtered beam ... or even if manufacturer's would make it available and let cyclists choose to buy them.


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## downfader (23 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> The real problem with cycle lights across the board is in fact poor design.
> 
> Car headlights are focused and filtered to give a bright lower bhalf to th ebeam to see with and an upper part that can be seen without blinding others
> 
> ...



As far as I can tell only Busch and Muller have attempted to do this with cycle lights, with some like Exposure having had a small attempt (eg the Strada). Its one of those things that (along with pedal design) will only change if consumers kick up a bit of fuss and ask imo.


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## moo (23 Feb 2014)

I recently ditched my Chinese clones for 2 B&M Ixon IQ Premiums after a friend rode my bike towards me. I couldn't see anything past the glare and was seeing stars for at least 5 minutes. This was with the lights pointed down and fitted with wide angle lenses. With the B&M lights there is no glare and no seeing stars while still providing more than enough to see and be seen light for road use. Not cheap tho at £55 each. The Philips SafeRide 80 (gen 2) is another option if you only want 1 light, but runtime is a shade under 2 hours on high. I opted for the Ixons due to the 5 hour runtime on high.

The german standard needs to be adopted in more countries. Only then will we finally get high powered safe for road use lights at reasonable prices.

I also have a SolarStorm X2 mounted to the helmet. I have fitted custom diffused lenses (cut the tip off a ping pong ball and place behind the metal plate). This removes all of the glare and generates 360 degree near field lighting - an excellent compliment to the B&M lights. It's also perfect for flashing mode during the day - I've done the friend riding towards me test on this. As soon as it gets dark the light goes into steady mode.


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## winjim (23 Feb 2014)

2945761 said:


> Yes it is of course always one cyclist's or another's fault.


Sometimes the actions of a cyclist can be a contributory factor in an accident. Dazzling drivers with superbright leds is not imo a sensible thing to do.


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## downfader (23 Feb 2014)

winjim said:


> Sometimes the actions of a cyclist can be a contributory factor in an accident. Dazzling drivers with superbright leds is not imo a sensible thing to do.


What realistically is happening is that fear is dictating the uptake of brighter and brighter lights in a "please, god, see me!" sense. I dont think most cyclists understand the side effects of cheaply angled LEDs etc.Some do when you point it out to them.

Drivers with fog lights on all the time are sometimes the same.


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## ufkacbln (23 Feb 2014)

.. or as happened with one of Portsmouths finest HAckney Carriage operators.

Pulled out in front of me at a junction and I managed to stop about two feet from his highly illuminated door!
Me... Did you not seethe big bright lights?
Taxi driver... Yeah, but I thought you were a motorbike, they have good enough brakes to have stopped further away than you did!

So this guy was pulling out in front of any vehicle, no matter what it was... on the grounds that they would have to (and be able to ) stop


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## downfader (23 Feb 2014)

Cunobelin said:


> .. or as happened with one of Portsmouths finest HAckney Carriage operators.
> 
> Pulled out in front of me at a junction and I managed to stop about two feet from his highly illuminated door!
> Me... Did you not seethe big bright lights?
> ...


He also doesnt know motorbikes...


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## phil-b (23 Feb 2014)

[


Cunobelin said:


> .. or as happened with one of Portsmouths finest HAckney Carriage operators.
> 
> Pulled out in front of me at a junction and I managed to stop about two feet from his highly illuminated door!
> Me... Did you not seethe big bright lights?
> ...



I have noticed when driving my car more people are doing this. Instead of giving way correctly if they can get a nose in front of you they will pull out forcing you to slow down or stop to let them out. I know the roads are getting more busy but this is a dangerous tactic. Unfortunately some drivers priority is not safe driving but shortening their journey time.


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## Svendo (4 Mar 2014)

I am turning into a self righteous old git.
Told two people off about their lights yesterday. Getting home towards twilight going through waterfoot towards Bacup, chap with a Magicshine level brightness on constant but pointing straight ahead, I shouted point it down more! I don't feel to bad, considering there a balance between his need ot be seen by cars pulling out and my need not to be fixatred by the shiny shiny thing, and then blinded by the dazzle, as well as just annoyed.
Then shortly after whilst piling down Bacup road towards Todmorden cyclist coming uphill (looked like a roadie type commuter) had his with a not so dazzling aim but set on strobe. I shouted 'that strobe is bloody evil' as I hurtled past. Probably sounded like 'Thatrbss........' for him.


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## wiggydiggy (4 Mar 2014)

Svendo said:


> I am turning into a self righteous old git.
> Told two people off about their lights yesterday. Getting home towards twilight going through waterfoot towards Bacup, chap with a Magicshine level brightness on constant but pointing straight ahead, I shouted point it down more! I don't feel to bad, considering there a balance between his need ot be seen by cars pulling out and my need not to be fixatred by the shiny shiny thing, and then blinded by the dazzle, as well as just annoyed.
> Then shortly after whilst piling down Bacup road towards Todmorden cyclist coming uphill (looked like a roadie type commuter) had his with a not so dazzling aim but set on strobe. I shouted 'that strobe is bloody evil' as I hurtled past. Probably sounded like 'Thatrbss........' for him.



You need to be quicker!

I normally shout 'Low!' at any nobbers I see off road that are doing no one in front of them any favors, then on the offchance you get an aggressive nobber who doesn't like been shouted at you can just say 'I said Hello!' lolol


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## David Parry (7 Mar 2014)

If you're alone in heavy traffic on a dark and rainy night . . clearly max intensity strobe, front and back, nothing but. Around other cyclists or pedestrians, steady settings and pointed down.


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## KnackeredBike (31 Jul 2017)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread was reading this before setting off into the torrential rain the other night.

I cycle along busy, dark countryside roads and strobe lights are without doubt very effective at making you seen and giving you a wide berth. I don't use it for a front light or in areas with other cyclists.

This sort of debate always remind me of how considerate we all are. Whenever I sit outside on a weekend afternoon all I hear are motorcyclists who fit exhausts so loud that everyone within a kilometre can hear them, in the name of safety. Yet we obsess about slightly annoying lights!


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## confusedcyclist (31 Jul 2017)

Lights? It's still summer! Come back for a moan in November.


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## classic33 (31 Jul 2017)

confusedcyclist said:


> Lights? It's still summer! Come back for a moan in November.


Not if you're riding at two in the morning. Nearly every wheeled road user will be using lights.

Plus there's always the "new" lights out, making the older ones possibly cheaper.


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## Lonestar (31 Jul 2017)

Yup on my last commute I needed lights on the way in...but I did leave at 03:15am.



KnackeredBike said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread was reading this before setting off into the torrential rain the other night.
> 
> I cycle along busy, dark countryside roads and strobe lights are without doubt very effective at making you seen and giving you a wide berth. I don't use it for a front light or in areas with other cyclists.
> 
> This sort of debate always remind me of how considerate we all are. Whenever I sit outside on a weekend afternoon all I hear are motorcyclists who fit exhausts so loud that everyone within a kilometre can hear them, in the name of safety. Yet we obsess about slightly annoying lights!



Yup...I've met some pretty bright lights and none at all.I know what I prefer.


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## classic33 (31 Jul 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Yup on my last commute I needed lights on the way in...but I did leave at 03:15am.
> 
> Yup...I've met some pretty bright lights and none at all.I know what I prefer.


The car exhausts!


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## Lonestar (31 Jul 2017)

classic33 said:


> The car exhausts!



No thanks mate...strobed it is.


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