# 16 Mile Commute Advice - Sidcup to London



## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

Hi,

I've recently bought a 2nd hand road bike and Im looking to do a 16 mile commute. I can't see myself going the whole 9 yards straight away so Im aiming to alternate riding There or Back every couple of days to start. The facilities at work are great, showers, secure underground storage, happy to leave the bike there for a few days in between trips.

Anywho, details. I'm just wondering if anyone has some route specific advice coming from Sidcup into London. Not a full GPS route, but if there are junctions that I should try to avoid I'd like to know about them rather than make that 'the way'. I see people here complain about specific junctions so I hope this is a sensible enough question.

Cheers a lot,

Lee


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## BentMikey (20 Apr 2010)

Where in London, Lee?


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## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

That may have helped... Tw4t...

I'm going into Moorgate/Liverpool Street. Most routes point me over London Bridge which is fair enough. It's the section from maybe Lewisham to that point where I could probably take 20 different routes.

I rode home on Good Friday (after taking the bike into town on the train) on traffic freeish roads and it took just over an hour to Sidcup which Im happy enough with, but I was following a mate with plenty of London Driving experience, had no idea where I was until I was 2 miles from home.


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

From Lewisham to Liverpool Street is an easy and quick flat 6 mile route that is used by many Cyclists. 
*Here's a Bikely route for you.*


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## gouldina (20 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> From Lewisham to Liverpool Street is an easy and quick flat 6 mile route that is used by many Cyclists.
> *Here's a Bikely route for you.*



How comes that route appears to go into the river Thames next to London Bridge???


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Because I didn't use the 'follow road' function.



gouldina said:


> How comes that route appears to go into the river Thames next to London Bridge???


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## e-rider (20 Apr 2010)

IMO a daily commute of more than 12 miles is a pain, especially in winter - good luck!


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Each to their own tundragumski, luck doesn't come into it. 12 miles for me and others on here is too short. This week for instance my run in to work is 20 miles (normal quick route 12 miles) and I am loving it.



tundragumski said:


> IMO a daily commute of more than 12 miles is a pain, especially in winter - good luck!


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> Each to their own tundragumski, luck doesn't come into it. 12 miles for me and others on here is too short. This week for instance my run in to work is 20 miles (normal quick route 12 miles) and I am loving it.



Mine is 20 miles (40 return) and with the light evenings and warm sun, I am also really "in the zone"...although my fitness is taking longer to return than I thought 

still...I struggle to commute more than 3 days a week (not like Mikey who I gather is up to around 6 out of 8 days in the last week or so....must be those new slippy legs of his!!...how was it Mikey, was it chilly this morning?)

So tundragumski does have a point I guess


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> From Lewisham to Liverpool Street is an easy and quick flat 6 mile route that is used by many Cyclists.
> *Here's a Bikely route for you.*



I often use the lewisham way-Old Kent road route (a little lower on the map you show ).

A lot of people dislike the old Kent road, I quite like the speed of traffic, lack of stops and amount of bus lanes.

It's genarally solid at the top end and you can fly past the traffic in the bus lane


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## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

Thanks again to everyone, I'll take a look at the map at some point. I dont expect to become a full time commuter just yet, I'm not looking beyond the sunny days at the moment. (Though when I rode home on Good Friday it was lashing it down and it was a doozy). 

It's just that I leave home at 6:45 so I can get a lift to the train station with the wife (3 miles away, not worth getting sweaty on foot or bike in my opinion), meaning I get to work for 8am where I effectively start working for free... In theory I could be at my desk for 8.45 having showered at this end, and having exercised my way to work and still not got up no earlier. The same would be true on the way home.
I might start by only doing journeys home, anyone know what South Eastern Trains are like in the morning?


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Scruffmonster. Bikes are not allowed on Southeastern trains in the mornings. Unless you are riding/carrying a folder (Brompton etc)


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

I used to nip between Sidcup and Lewisham about 3 times a week, and from Lewisham to London on the others. (Lived in Lewisham, worked in town, Grandad's care home in Sidcup).

Tying the routes together, I'd have gone:

Sidcup A211 
becomes A20 (Sidcup Road) 
becomes A20 (Eltham Road)
becomes A20 (Lee HIgh Road)
becomes A20 (Lewisham Way), 

Right on Brookmill Road, 
Straight Over to A2209
Left on A200 (Evelyn Street).
becomes A200 (Lower Road)
becomes A200 (Jamaica Road - Exit 1 at Roundabout)
Right on Tower Bridge
Head due North.

From there on, its all crazy routing along the lines of A3211, A1211, A1202 etc. Maybe 12 miles door to door.


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## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Maybe 12 miles door to door.



I'm actually a bit further out than Sidcup, but see little point in naming some random village that nobody would have heard of. Hence the 16 miler heading.

I did see a weasly oik on the train with a bike this morning at 7:15, guarantee I'd get stopped if I tried to politely argue the case for letting me on though.

There's more than enough help here so far. I'll ride it in and back on alternate days by the end of the week and see how we go.


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Ride in and back regular Scruffmonster then you will soon build up enough stamina to do a 5 day week commute. And I think you will surprised how quickly your stamina and fitness rises with a regular commute. Good luck, you have picked a great time of year to start your commute.


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

Scruffmonster said:


> I'm actually a bit further out than Sidcup, but see little point in naming some random village that nobody would have heard of. .



Ian, Mikey, myself (and a few others) are from that neck of the woods and I know what you mean, I wouldn't own up to living in someplace like "Pratts Bottom" on an open interweb forum

I'm in Chislehurst myself and ride to Shepherds Bush. I would look at Ians advice and consider trying a regular ride (maybe just once a week to start) and see how that goes.

In terms of timing, I have no idea how "avid" a cyclist you have been up till now, or how fit you feel you are. All I can tell you is my first ride in took just over an hour and I've never really improved much on that in a year (...almost...) of commuting. I had no proper road riding experience and have only ever dabbled in MTB'ing in the past (no major rides or events)...I consider myself pretty unfit although I squeeze an hour of sport into my life a couple of evenings a week. I am also a pretty big unit, 6'2 with a large frame, bit kinda rugger playerish...not cyclist shaped at all

Going home is harder for me (maybe for you too) as Chislehurst is an elevated village and the incline up from Lewisham is very gradual, so its a 4-5 mile slog (especially with a nasty headwinds in Catford to contend with most nights) this means my ride home is usually somewhere between 75-90 mins.

I would say 16 miles will take you the best part of 90 mins, without experience or "cycle fitness" and will eventually end up around an hour (50-60 mins) door to door, as your fitness and experience grows.

Also, to gain confidence remember that there are "rules" to cycling, like Highway code etc but also more advance rules that will give you much more confidence and provide greater safety (a big issue with busy city riding)

Many places can provide info on road skills...a book called "Cycle craft" is often quoted on this forum and I found this book very helpful.. Although you will see posts from me defending the use of highway code, I will admit to breaking many of the H.C rules myself with the exception of jumping red lights. Jumping red lights has a particularly negative impact on drivers perception of all cyclists and will reduce the respect that drivers give you along your journey.... It really does not slow you down to stop, other than that, make your choice and accept the consequences.


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> I'm in Chislehurst myself and ride to Shepherds Bush. Going home is harder for me (maybe for you too) as Chislehurst is an elevated village and the incline up from Lewisham is very gradual, so its a 4-5 mile slog (especially with a nasty headwinds in Catford to contend with most nights) this means my ride home is usually somewhere between 75-90 mins.



Hey, maybe see you on the road some time. I'm doing Hammersmith > Vauxhall > Lewisham > Bromley Mon/Tues/Weds evenings.


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## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> In terms of timing, I have no idea how "avid" a cyclist you have been up till now, or how fit you feel you are. //
> 
> I would say 16 miles will take you the best part of 90 mins, without experience or "cycle fitness" and will eventually end up around an hour (50-60 mins) door to door, as your fitness and experience grows.//
> 
> Also, to gain confidence remember that there are "rules" to cycling, like Highway code etc but also more advance rules that will give you much more confidence and provide greater safety (a big issue with busy city riding)



I'm only just starting out, but I'm reasonably fit, the main point is to work in 'free' exercise. I have a small child who is demanding, tagging on a 7-8pm gym session a few days a week isnt doable. I figure if I can get to 4 legs a week I'll be happy. I'd be over the moon with 3 full commutes a week for the summer months.

I'm reasonably confident when on the road, have no qualms about making people wait for good reason, if that doesnt sound ignorant. I think I'm quick enough and sensible enough to not put myself in too many avoidable situations, the main reason for this thread was to establish if there were any 'Cyclist No go zones/junctions' that I would have stumbled onto otherwise. I've seen plenty of mentions/videos on here of some shockers. I'm sure I'll be fine. Aside from the John Wayne waddle 9-5...


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Hey, maybe see you on the road some time. I'm doing Hammersmith > Vauxhall > Lewisham > Bromley Mon/Tues/Weds evenings.



That'd be good, I know Ian, mikey and myself have all tried to fix a trip in one morning (without success) but it be fun to see you all on the road sometime (and be able to recognise you) Are you riding a Bent tho, not seen one of those on the road at all on my route so I suspect you may ride at a different time to me.



Scruffmonster said:


> I'm only just starting out, but I'm reasonably fit, the main point is to work in 'free' exercise. I have a small child who is demanding, tagging on a 7-8pm gym session a few days a week isnt doable. I figure if I can get to 4 legs a week I'll be happy. I'd be over the moon with 3 full commutes a week for the summer months.
> 
> I'm reasonably confident when on the road,



That was exactley the same reason I started to commute by bike a year ago (time flies)my spare time is very limited and my journey (by car or train) in was taking upwards of 2 hours each way, so I looked at this time as "binus" time to invest in keeping fit as apposed to taking up space in a car or train

Glad you are confident, that's a major plus for busy city riding......confidence and predictability


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> That'd be good, I know Ian, mikey and myself have all tried to fix a trip in one morning (without success) but it be fun to see you all on the road sometime (and be able to recognise you) Are you riding a Bent tho, not seen one of those on the road at all on my route so I suspect you may ride at a different time to me.



Yep. On a white and black Furai, wot looks like my avatar 
I'm only on those roads in the evenings, setting off from work 1830-1945hrs normally, and home around an hour later. Mornings I go the 'quick' way, which is to say straight over Crystal Palace.


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

arallsopp said:


> Yep. On a white and black Furai, wot looks like my avatar
> I'm only on those roads in the evenings, setting off from work 1830-1945hrs normally, and home around an hour later. Mornings I go the 'quick' way, which is to say straight over Crystal Palace.



flippin eck, Crystal palace on a Bent!!!...are you mad!!

you leave around an hour after me, but maybe I'll see you if i leave late some night


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> flippin eck, Crystal palace on a Bent!!!...are you mad!!
> 
> you leave around an hour after me, but maybe I'll see you if i leave late some night



Its not so bad. People say "'Bent's don't climb" but once legs and expectations are adjusted accordingly, it all goes rather swimmingly. Good practice for steadycam on ditchling too 

Hope to see you on the road sometime.


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## BentMikey (20 Apr 2010)

Andy goes up hills a lot faster than I do. Plus having looked at the Crystal Palace route on Bikely, it's got just about as much climbing and descending as the A21 route. Surprising, eh!


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Andy goes up hills a lot faster than I do. Plus having looked at the Crystal Palace route on Bikely, it's got just about as much climbing and descending as the A21 route. Surprising, eh!



I did the same calc and was really surprised, the actual "climbing bit" of crystal palace is not that different from the hill at the Beadles garage end of Bromley road....which I also hate. 

I've still not plucked up the courage though...it's my Nemesis! I do think a lot of hills are "in your mind" though, I spin up the hill at Lewisham (loampit) without even thinking about it, but Bromley hill is a real trial for me for some reason..odd


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

I do Bromley Hill every day.. and it doesn't get any easier lol


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Having looked at the Crystal Palace route on Bikely, it's got just about as much climbing and descending as the A21 route.



I'm not sure about that. I can keep 16.5mph all the way on Bromley Hill, but can't get near that average for Crystal Palace, even with a +30mph descent on the other side. I'm not sure I understand total climb / descent anyway, as there seems to be massive variance even on the same GPX file.

Case in point: GarminConnect says my commute home via Crystal Palace is 1,175ft elevation gain (uncorrected), but via Vauxhall / Bromley Hill reckons 905ft. SportyPal also uses google maps, but says 446ft vs 253.

Personally, I just point the boom at the top and spin. Eventually you crest either, and then its plain sailing


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## BentMikey (20 Apr 2010)

Yeah, I'm probably more even on my route as there seems to be less climb from the Crystal Palace side up to Biggin Hill (I go via Blackness Lane).


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> I do Bromley Hill every day.. and it doesn't get any easier lol



a few times I've found myself sharing the route (not drafting) with a fair haired chap on a white framed Hybrid. we run through lewisham ,Catford and Downham together, equally paced and neither of us bothering the other (i hope) but i just loose the guy on the hill, he slows a lot as well mind, but not as much as me!!!

one day...oooonnneee daaaay


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## arallsopp (20 Apr 2010)

Well the good thing is that we can all agree. With regards to the OP, the best route from Sidcup to Liverpool Street is not via Bromley Hill.


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Indeed.. apologies for the hijack thread



arallsopp said:


> Well the good thing is that we can all agree. With regards to the OP, the best route from Sidcup to Liverpool Street is not via Bromley Hill.


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## Scruffmonster (20 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> Indeed.. apologies for the hijack thread



Nay bother, probably the best bit of advice to be honest. Me and Hills are many months away from seeing eye to eye.

Everything south of me is Up and Down country lanes. A friend insists on them, they destroy me as my bike insists on shifting of it's own accord (see other thread).

Taking the bike on the train tomorrow. S.Eastern say pre 7am is ok. Riding home. Should be fun. If anyone wishes to see what a human being breathing out of his arse looks like, one will be passing through Sidcup some time after 6.


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## ianrauk (20 Apr 2010)

Well waddyaknow... heard a shout from the other side of the road at the bottom of Bromley Hill this evening.. turned to look just in time to see Mikey whizz by...



jonny jeez said:


> That'd be good, I know Ian, mikey and myself have all tried to fix a trip in one morning (without success)


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## MARKE020272 (20 Apr 2010)

Scruffmonster, I cycle from various parts of that area to ride into London Bridge, depending on how I feeling on the day. Usually, along the A20 - Lee High St into Lewisham then New Cross and Old Kent Rd. The junction where Lee Fire station is going towards Lewisham you need to watch out for the 2 lanes that try to fit into 1 lane at the other side of the lights and don't give you room. The large roundabout at Lewisham DLR station, watch out for the cars coming from Catford rd. Usually busy there and cars just pull out from all directions. At the top of Lewisham way, watch out for cars turning left at the junction before the traffic lights. Seen 2 people knocked off their bikes when the car turns left quickly to miss the traffic jam at the lights. There are currently roadworks at the bottom of the hill by New Cross bus station which causes alot of traffic. After that, just need to watch for the taxis as you can use the bus lanes most of the way from here. Also, don't forget that the motorbikes can now use the bus lanes as well. From here I go down the Old Kent Rd to Tower Bridge Rd. This is also a traffic hotspot. Why the drivers think this is a 2 lane road when it clearly isn't. This doesn't leave any room on road so you'll end up on the wrong side of the road. On the way back to lewisham, just need to watch out for the junction on the Old Kent Rd where PC World is. Watch out for the lorries turning left there. Also when you get to the bottom of Lewisham Way going into Lewisham, watch out for the traffic turning right across the traffic. It's usually busy so they will be coming across through the traffic. Lewisham roundabout will always be busy. Sorry is it's a long post, but hope it helps. I do about 11 miles each way usually from Bexley on a MTB so I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Get road tyres instead of the knobblies if so haven't already done so. What time of day will you be making this journey?.


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## jonny jeez (20 Apr 2010)

*rear ended in Lewisham*

So was that you ... who clipped the ugly end of a pick up truck at the bottom of Lewisham Hill tonight?

If so, all I can say is, "hope the Jacobs are okay"....actually I could also say "man you have a good pace", which would be kinder I guess.

now, about that head cam footage.........


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## Scruffmonster (21 Apr 2010)

So I've ridden to the station... And a spoke has popped out... Pheeenomenal.

It's come away from the rim - the small part that holds it in has vanished. Will it be in the wheel? If so, is it a puncture waiting to happen?

Also, do I remove the spoke myself or run it into On Your Bike/Evans at London Bridge?

Forgot my water bottle too. I Truly suck at this.


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## Scruffmonster (21 Apr 2010)

Update - the little part that holds the spoke to the rim is indeed inside the wheel, rattling round in there having the time of it's life. Will have to go to a bike shop at lunch. Fabulous.


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## jonny jeez (21 Apr 2010)

Scruffmonster said:


> Forgot my water bottle too. I Truly suck at this.



No you dont, you've learnt two lessons already in one day, that's what I call Pheeenomenal

that little rattly bit is sure to shred your tube if you dont get it out, just pop the tyre of an find it. I would imagine the wheel will survive long enough (with one missing spoke) for a trip to evans at lunch tho.


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## BentMikey (21 Apr 2010)

Shred the tube? I think not, that's what rim tape is for.

No suckage, scruffmonster. Broken spokes and forgotten water bottles are normal for commuting, it's how you deal with them that counts. Water is easy - so many corner shops around, and the spoke might not be too hard to sort either.


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## jonny jeez (21 Apr 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Shred the tube? I think not, that's what rim tape is for.
> 
> No suckage, scruffmonster. Broken spokes and forgotten water bottles are normal for commuting, it's how you deal with them that counts. Water is easy - so many corner shops around, and the spoke might not be too hard to sort either.



Oh, I assumesd it was "rattling" around the inside of the rim somehow.

but that does make more sense


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## BentMikey (21 Apr 2010)

Yeah, it probably is rattling around the inside of the rim, the bit between the nipple seat and the upper surface which is covered by rim tape.


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## arallsopp (21 Apr 2010)

...and chances are high the only way its coming out is through the valve hole in your rim, or by removing said tape.


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## Scruffmonster (21 Apr 2010)

Oh FFS. I'm just going to leave it in there, it sounds like one of those spokey dokely things you used to get with monster munch / cereal. Havent changed a tube in like, forever, will give it a go this weekend.

Will also see what the people at Cycle Surgery say. Unless anyone recommends a better quickish repair shop near Liverpool street.


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## jonny jeez (21 Apr 2010)

Scruffmonster said:


> Havent changed a tube in like, forever
> 
> .



if you plan to commute.....on a regular basis....then you'd better get some practice in...or by a pair of armadillos like mine!


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## manalog (21 Apr 2010)

Hello Scruffmuster. I commute everyday from Halfway street to Moorgate.
I normally go on the main roads
Halfway Street to Bexley Road, follow the road all the way to Eltham Road but instead of going towards Lewisham I turn right to Lee Road towards Blackheath through Greenwich park and head towards Creek Road, Evelyn Street, Jamaica Road and Tooley steet. Turn Right at the top of the Road and cross London Bridge. I just find this Route easier I tried going through Lewisham before but I didn't like the Roudabout in Lewisham. If you see someone on a Black Focus Cayo with a Contour HD just wave.


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## Scruffmonster (21 Apr 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> if you plan to commute.....on a regular basis....then you'd better get some practice in...or by a pair of armadillos like mine!



Won't be getting better anytime soon.. Cycle Surgery and Evans advise wheel rebuild.

Sidcup Bike Shop quoted £35-50 for level 1 service including wheel true up and repair. Taking it there at the weekend.


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