# Cycling on roads is getting worse..



## ray316 (17 Jan 2016)

Our roads are getting less safe by the year, l don't know if it's down to more cars on the roads or drivers aways in a rush or both..
When l go out on my bike in the week or weekends alot of the time road driver will either drive to near to me or just have no consideration for a cyclist on the road...
Extra careful at roundabouts and junctions as you have to be.
As a car driver myself l give room for cyclists and slow down and give way at junctions but a lot of drivers when l'm cycling just don't do this, and then give you abuse or wave there arms at you as if it's you fault they come out of a junction or roundabout and you should stop or except this is ok...
What do you think... Are drivers less considerate now days..


----------



## Smokin Joe (17 Jan 2016)

I think it largely depends where you live. Down here in Pembrokeshire the traffic density is low, the pace of life is slower and people are used to plodding behind tractors for a few miles at a time. When I lived in Essex it was more frantic and going south of the A13 and into the Badlands of Grays and Tilbury was a big No-No.


----------



## ianrauk (17 Jan 2016)

In London and the South East it's got way better then one could imagine over the years. Mainly due to the sheer amount of cyclists on the roads now. Vehicle drivers in the main are very good. 
Go back 10 years or more and it really was horrid for cyclists.


----------



## dave r (17 Jan 2016)

I think it depends a lot on where you live, in places where theres a lot of cyclist, like London and Cambridge you are likely to be treated better than somewhere where cyclists are scarce. It can also vary depending whether you live out in the sticks or in a city, for the last five years I was commuting Coventry Nuneaton and back, and it was noticeable that things where better once I cleared Coventry in the morning and got worse as I dropped back into Coventry at night. When I first started that job I was working lates with a 10am start and 6:45 finish and commutes were better than when I went back to normal hours with a 8am start and a 4:45pm finish.


----------



## jay clock (17 Jan 2016)

I live in a big town in Hampshire and ride 3-4 times a week. Frankly I have few problems. I commuted from Clapham to Chiswick last couple of years and had a lovely quiet ride every day.


----------



## Smurfy (17 Jan 2016)

I thought matters had improved in recent years. I suspect partly because there are more cyclists, so motorists are expecting us to be there, partly because there are more cyclists spreading the word about how unpleasant it is to be close-passed etc. etc. and partly because helmet cams are making motorists think about the prospect of starring in a 'selfish, aggressive idiot' video on YouTube.


----------



## Cold (17 Jan 2016)

Cycling up the A38 in Gloucestershire today and came to a pinch point in the road and a camper van behind me decides to go for it even though I am in front of him and about to go through.
I have no idea how he didn't hit me and as we came through the pinch point he swerved mounted the pavement and back onto the road.
I would love to know what was going through his head at the time.


----------



## Sharky (17 Jan 2016)

In my youth, would be happy riding A roads for the good surfaces and speed you can maintain. Now I feel happier on the back roads, even though there are numerous pot holes and twists and turns etc. You do have to be wary of single track roads and sharp bends.


----------



## Drago (17 Jan 2016)

Generally seems better here, though still plenty of arses out there.


----------



## jay clock (17 Jan 2016)

One reason for any improvement is that the number of drivers who are also regular cyclists is on the increase


----------



## Joffey (17 Jan 2016)

Seems alright in Yorkshire!


----------



## Drago (17 Jan 2016)

Your biggest danger in Yorkshire is from scruffy old men hurtling downhill in bathtubs!


----------



## bancrobba (17 Jan 2016)

I ride in the Liverpool area. Would rather dodge hooded skunk smoking scallys on the cycle path than most of the knob heads on the road.
I find the worst thing is the sheer aggression of a lot of drivers. I hold a particular mistrust of male or female drivers hurtling their 4x4's (the size of a small house) about with complete disregard for other people. 
One thing that occurs regularly and just baffles me is approaching junctions, the car waiting at the give way let's you get close, then screeches onto the carriageway inches in front of you. Invariably you pull up next to them at the lights a couple of yards down the road.
I ride in primary and assertively at roundabouts etc, you can, at times, get a palpable sense of the driver behinds impatience and aggression. A punishment pass invariably follows.
I think it's a societal thing, time poor people constantly feeling rushed, cocooned in their metal boxes, not giving two shites for anybody but themselves. 
I would love for my kids to be able to cycle to school, but honestly believe the risk of some moron wiping them out in a bid to save a couple of seconds on the school run is too high.
Apart from that, its not too bad!


----------



## derrick (17 Jan 2016)

I think it depends a lot on time of year, I always notice more close passes in the winter months, Don't know why everybody seems to be more in a rush in the winter, they could be grabbing an extra 5 mins in bed in the morning then having to rush to get to work, When the warmer weather comes people seem more relaxed and calmer.


----------



## classic33 (17 Jan 2016)

Drago said:


> Your biggest danger in Yorkshire is from scruffy old men hurtling downhill in bathtubs!


You should give it a go sometime.


----------



## Nigel-YZ1 (17 Jan 2016)

Too many aggressive little prats buoyed up by 'own the road' commercials, cruising round in the knowledge there's only one copper on duty in the whole county.


----------



## rugby bloke (17 Jan 2016)

Been regularly cycling for 8 years now, in and around Northampton and I don't think things are any worse now then when I started. The only issue I have is one stretch of country road that leads towards "Santa Pod" - a drag racing strip. On weekends you get convoys of cars, whose drivers are living out their fantasies of driving dragsters. At a T junction my ride takes me right whilst they all go straight on. Getting the bike into the right place on the road then having the guts to stay there can be quite challenging.


----------



## Sharky (17 Jan 2016)

rugby bloke said:


> Been regularly cycling for 8 years now, in and around Northampton and I don't think things are any worse now then when I started. The only issue I have is one stretch of country road that leads towards "Santa Pod" - a drag racing strip. On weekends you get convoys of cars, whose drivers are diving out their fantasies of driving dragsters. At a T junction my ride takes me right whilst they all go straight on. Getting the bike into the right place on the road then having the guts to stay there can be quite challenging.



I live on one of the roads to Brandshatch, so can imagine, but fortunately not the main one.


----------



## NorthernDave (17 Jan 2016)

Generally it's not too bad round here (apart from the old men in bathtubs), but it only takes one or two nobbers to put a downer on a ride.
Being more confident / taking primary does help.


----------



## Lonestar (17 Jan 2016)

Not so good for me as I commute at different times like today when there aren't a lot of other cyclists about.In fact tonight was pretty crappy generally on the Mile End Road but the backstreets were ok.

Seem to get days like this...all sorts of law breaking like mobile phone use and reckless driving/speeding but nothing done about it as usual.Boy racers were out also.


----------



## Sbudge (18 Jan 2016)

I used to commute by bike in London a bit about a decade ago and I'd say it was much worse then. Of course there are still idiots on the rode (both 2 and 4 wheel variety) but generally there is more awareness of cyclists. I'd say it's more frequent these days for me to say 'thank you' to a good driver than have an encounter with a bad one.


----------



## Smurfy (18 Jan 2016)

I haven't seen so many boy racers in recent years. Have the insurance companies priced them off the road?


----------



## swee'pea99 (18 Jan 2016)

I agree with Ian & Sbudge - riding in London has become proper civilised. I really notice the difference on trips out into places like Essex or Herts - you meet with a lot more impatience, resentment and what's hard to avoid viewing as psycopathy - really close passes at high speed for absolutely no reason, and the like. But yes, London drivers are overwhelmingly careful & considerate, IME.


----------



## rugby bloke (18 Jan 2016)

I would agree with riding in London. People are amazed when I tell them I ride in London and say it is too dangerous, I think its a perception thing. Yes there is a lot more traffic but generally its travelling a lot slower and the drivers are generally much more bike aware.


----------



## hopless500 (18 Jan 2016)

Here in Norfolk it has got very noticeably worse in the last couple of years. Dangerously so.


----------



## Drago (18 Jan 2016)

Norfolk is indeed bad. Must be as many as 4 cars there now.


----------



## hopless500 (18 Jan 2016)

Drago said:


> Norfolk is indeed bad. Must be as many as 4 cars there now.


I wish that was the case!


----------



## martint235 (18 Jan 2016)

I think driving is just getting worse. Red light jumping is certainly worse but also the levels of impatience etc. I've never driven but I can't see it being a relaxing experience in London in a morning, everyone just seems so wound up.


----------



## Mark1978 (18 Jan 2016)

Drago said:


> Norfolk is indeed bad. Must be as many as 4 cars there now.



I saw three of those on my ride on Saturday, must have been some kind of "Norfolk-wide" event.

I have no issues with cars in my part of Norfolk. I have more issue with pheasants and free running dogs to be honest.


----------



## mjr (18 Jan 2016)

ray316 said:


> Our roads are getting less safe by the year, l don't know if it's down to more cars on the roads or drivers aways in a rush or both..


I think our local roads are about the same despite a recent surge in injury collisions. I'd also blame the cuts in traffic police numbers and the rise of the smart phone that isn't smart enough to switch off non-essential apps while driving.



hopless500 said:


> Here in Norfolk it has got very noticeably worse in the last couple of years. Dangerously so.


I'm about ten miles away from @Mark1978 and it's about the same as it has ever been IMO. The extremes seem to be getting more extreme, though: more lovely drivers giving you loads of room and not blocking cycle-only junctions, but more absolute cretins trying to overtake without changing lane or abusing you as they pass. The main change is that I now live near a decent major route cycle track which is a mixed blessing but does mean that I don't have to play "motorist roulette" so much.


----------



## hopless500 (18 Jan 2016)

Mark1978 said:


> I saw three of those on my ride on Saturday, must have been some kind of "Norfolk-wide" event.
> 
> I have no issues with cars in my part of Norfolk. I have more issue with pheasants and free running dogs to be honest.


Over that way wasn't so bad, but that was a few years ago for me. 
Over this way, there are some who will try to drive you off the road and quite happily drive past at speed flicking the v's with both hands


----------



## Gixxerman (18 Jan 2016)

In deepest, darkest Lincolnshire, in general it is not too bad as the pace of life is sloooow and most folks round here are not in any great hurry.
The biggest issue is not arrogance / agressive driving, but simply incompetence, ignorance and poor observation (eyesight?). We have a greater than average elderly population, and their standard of driving is quite frankly, worrying.


----------



## mjr (18 Jan 2016)

hopless500 said:


> Over that way wasn't so bad, but that was a few years ago for me.
> Over this way, there are some who will try to drive you off the road and quite happily drive past at speed flicking the v's with both hands


May I send your testimony to the Norfolk Casualty Reduction Partnership? I've been a cycling member of its Vulnerable Road Users Subgroup (not my choice of name) for a few months and think the leaders need more reminders of what the danger to us is IYSWIM.


----------



## Mile195 (18 Jan 2016)

+1 for area dependent. The amount of "near misses" I have (where I genuinely didn't anticipate someone doing something unexpected) is probably at most one a year in London for me. People give far more room these days (where roadspace allows), and don't turn left straight across bus lanes without checking so much anymore.

Without wanting to start a war of words here, but I find other cyclists are more likely to do unexpected things these days than motorised traffic. I think it's absolutely superb that so many people have taken it up over the last 10 years or so. However there are a few that could really do to be checking over their shoulder before randomly swerving out for no apparent reason, and also have no comprehension about why it's not very clever to ride 30 centimeters away from the bike in front up Camberwell New Road during rush hour, just because they saw people doing it on the Tour de france!


----------



## hopless500 (18 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> May I send your testimony to the Norfolk Casualty Reduction Partnership? I've been a cycling member of its Vulnerable Road Users Subgroup (not my choice of name) for a few months and think the leaders need more reminders of what the danger to us is IYSWIM.


I guess so, but it was last year with the charming bloke in his large car doing no-handed driving going past a group of 6 of us. 
The best one (so far) this year is a pillock overtaking me with someone coming the other way. I'm still not quite sure how all three of us remained unscathed given that the *insert expletive of choice* overtook when the oncoming vehicle was nigh on passing me.


----------



## Saluki (18 Jan 2016)

hopless500 said:


> Over that way wasn't so bad, but that was a few years ago for me.
> Over this way, there are some who will try to drive you off the road and quite happily drive past at speed flicking the v's with both hands


Is was your neck of the woods where I had a few encounters with boy racers, numpties in 4x4s and tractors with huge trailers who didn't have room to overtake but did anyway. The other side of Wymondham was much calmer.

It's nice around here. Mental driving along the front at the weekends, but that's grockles for you. Once past Walton High Street, the car drivers seem to be quite bike savvy. There do seem to be a lot more cyclists around here than I saw when living just outside Norwich. Suffolk must be the place for cycling in.


----------



## mjr (18 Jan 2016)

Saluki said:


> There do seem to be a lot more cyclists around here than I saw when living just outside Norwich. Suffolk must be the place for cycling in.


Not really: Suffolk Coastal is the highest-cycling district of Suffolk, whereas the next-to-Norwich areas (South Norfolk and Broadland) are two of the lowest-cycling districts of Norfolk (source: Active People Survey). These two counties are so vast that there is quite a bit of variation within them.


----------



## Glow worm (18 Jan 2016)

I haven't noticed it getting much worse around here in recent years. There are a heck of a lot of cyclists here which can only be good (I'm only 10 miles from Cambridge) . The rare bad/ impatient/ dangerous numpties do stick in the mind more I guess, especially after a particularly close shave. But much more frequently, I am surprised at the patience and friendliness of drivers who pull over for me on narrow lanes and the like and often wait for ages for me to amble past..

Its a similar story in Norfolk where I ride a lot (mainly from King's Lynn station to near Wells - in fact I'll be doing that one on Wednesday evening). Crossing the A149 near West Newton is always fun - I'm sure they speed up when they see me about to cross, but other than that, no real issues.

Its the idiots on Twitter that worry me with all the poisonous anti-cyclist nonsense. There are a lot of half -wits out there, easily I'm sure influenced by such bile.


----------



## Jimidh (18 Jan 2016)

I guess I am lucky riding around Mid and East Lothian and the Scottish Borders.

The roads aren't too busy with plenty good B roads through great scenery and generally good courteous drivers. 

There are a few knobber out there but I wouldn't say I have seen an increase in the last few years.


----------



## srw (18 Jan 2016)

ray316 said:


> Our roads are getting less safe by the year


No they're not. All the evidence (as opposed to anecdote) is that they're getting safer and safer each year, for all road users (cyclists included), and have been doing so for about 40 years.


----------



## al78 (18 Jan 2016)

Drivers around my area (W Sussex and Surrey) are mostly fine, I rarely have to deal with anything where I genuinely feel in danger, or that I haven't been able to take avoiding action myself. The main problem I am finding is the steady increase in the levels of traffic, not helped by the rampant house building going on around the county. Horsham can sometimes be frustrating to get around, as it is feeling congested now particularly on weekends and it feels like everyone is on top of each other, and it takes ages to get from one side of the town to the other.


----------



## Milkfloat (18 Jan 2016)

20 years of on/off commuting (mainly off), I don't think I have seen a remarkable difference, there are nobbers now and there used to be nobbers when I started. By far the majority are just going about their business normally. I see just as much nobbery when driving as I do cycling. For non-commuting cycling all I have seen is a big increase in numbers in adults, but probably a reduction in children.


----------



## fossyant (18 Jan 2016)

Rush hour Manchester, forget it. If you are going into the city, be very careful, even outside it. Driver standards are shocking. I've been hit 3 times in 12 months, excluding near misses. 4 broken ribs, badly fractured spine, and 6 months off work has finished off my commuting into the city. It's much better 10 miles out, but city stuff is a mare.

There aren't that many cyclists in Manchester - just not a critical mass. I'm sticking to out of rush hour cycling for now.


----------



## fossyant (18 Jan 2016)

Oh and I forgot, GM Police hate cyclists - scum of the earth we are and not worth an investigation when you end up seriously injured (Leigh Day have me and another cyclist the day before, both serious injuries, no investigation).


----------



## Dec66 (18 Jan 2016)

Yesterday I was driving home along the A232, through Hayes Common, when I drew near to a cyclist going in the same direction.

I hung back behind him until there was no oncoming traffic in the opposite lane, then pulled out and went round him, giving him six feet of room.

All the time I was hanging behind him Mrs. 66 was giving me grief for not just going past him straight away, which I could have done if I'd wanted to squeeze through, leaving him 18-24" spare room. No thought from her about him wobbling, or weaving round a pothole, or anything like that... 

And that is the difference between a driver who cycles regularly, and one that doesn't. I just hope she's never in the car trying to get past me on a semi-rural road.


----------



## Siclo (18 Jan 2016)

fossyant said:


> Rush hour Manchester, forget it. If you are going into the city, be very careful, even outside it. Driver standards are shocking. I've been hit 3 times in 12 months, excluding near misses. 4 broken ribs, badly fractured spine, and 6 months off work has finished off my commuting into the city. It's much better 10 miles out, but city stuff is a mare.
> 
> There aren't that many cyclists in Manchester - just not a critical mass. I'm sticking to out of rush hour cycling for now.



Strange how experiences vary, my old commute, Irlam to Wythenshawe, was a nightmare. Now its Irlam to city centre it so much more chilled.


----------



## fossyant (18 Jan 2016)

Siclo said:


> Strange how experiences vary, my old commute, Irlam to Wythenshawe, was a nightmare. Now its Irlam to city centre it so much more chilled.



I was doing east to west south manchester, but since moving it's been a mare.


----------



## growingvegetables (18 Jan 2016)

+1 on it varies by area - Leeds is poor, Wakefield's worse, but Bradford ................................ is shoot. 
+1 on it varies by season - from Xmas through to February, and the fortnight after the clocks change.  
+1 on it's getting worse; not that you notice from day-to-day, but think back ten years.  There's that many more vehicles, and a huge increase in the fat-arsed SUVs, and Audi/BMW types and lookalikes, styled for the autobahn and the American market.


----------



## glenn forger (18 Jan 2016)

Bradford has dreadful car insurance premiums, one of the worst.


----------



## slowmotion (18 Jan 2016)

It took a bit of getting used to, but London is a fantastic place to ride. Nearly all the drivers are extremely considerate to cyclists. They are used them. The further away from the centre, driving standards seem to drop off a bit. The key is familiarity with road users on two wheels.
Thank you London.
Edit: My hairiest incidents involved drivers from out of town.


----------



## mjr (20 Jan 2016)

Dec66 said:


> II just hope she's never in the car trying to get past me on a semi-rural road.


Please please please please try to convince Mrs 66 of the wisdom of giving cyclists 1.5m clearance (staying alive at 1.5)


----------



## Elybazza61 (20 Jan 2016)

I frequently ride in to Cambridge on the A10 and it's surprisingly calm most of the time;even in the dark I'd say 95% of the traffic gives me a clean pass.

We do come across a few idiots on club runs and as many others have mentioned big people carriers and 4x4's seem the main culprits;also seems to be worse when headed west for some reason.

The centre of Cambridge can be a bit manic sometimes but to be fair I'd say 50% of the problems are cyclists(or to put it the Velominati way people who occasionally ride a bike).


----------



## Dec66 (20 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> Please please please please try to convince Mrs 66 of the wisdom of giving cyclists 1.5m clearance (staying alive at 1.5)


It's not just that... Another time we were at a junction near Oxted, waiting to turn right, and I waited for a cyclist flying downhill at around (I'd guess) 40 mph.

"You could have pulled out there."

"I could have, and he might have gone over the roof, I'm just making sure."

"I'd have pulled out."

"Well, let's hope you never pull out on me at the bottom of a long steep hill."


----------



## Dec66 (20 Jan 2016)

And a nice word...

Today I was riding to work, as per usual, but it was flipping cold and I was going a little bit more slowly than usual as I was keeping an eye out for black ice.

As I went down the hill out of Beckenham towards Catford, I was a little bit nervous of a slide; a lady in a car off my right shoulder slowed, and held back, all the way down the hill. I was probably doing 20-25mph, so hardly Augustus Windsock territory, but I really appreciated her caution.

If we'd been going the same way at the bottom of the hill, I'd have knocked on her window to say thank you, but as we went separate ways I gave the thumbs up to acknowledge her considerate driving.


----------



## teaboy (20 Jan 2016)

al78 said:


> Drivers around my area (W Sussex and Surrey) are mostly fine, I rarely have to deal with anything where I genuinely feel in danger, or that I haven't been able to take avoiding action myself. The main problem I am finding is the steady increase in the levels of traffic, not helped by the rampant house building going on around the county. Horsham can sometimes be frustrating to get around, as it is feeling congested now particularly on weekends and it feels like everyone is on top of each other, and it takes ages to get from one side of the town to the other.


Have you used the new Horsham cycle path yet ?[the 2 inch wide one]


----------



## Travs (20 Jan 2016)

I live in SWLondon/Surrey and either ride into "town" or out into the hills. Otherwise, its bike in the car and drive down to my best mate in Uckfield or the In-Laws near Battle.
I've got to say I think in geenral Car drivers are pretty decent. I'm not that precious on close passing but I've had one or two people rather close. Very little aggravation from drivers although ironically I've been in a group that has taken a swear word or two from White Van Co-driver taking his frustration out on us because the car in front of him hadn't overtaken us (and I would have done on several occasions had I been in the car).

From my perspective drivers are pretty good at giving space - as always its the few that spoils things for the many.


----------



## mjr (20 Jan 2016)

Dec66 said:


> as we went separate ways I gave the thumbs up to acknowledge her considerate driving.


I must say, I usually wave because I fear that some of them may think it's one finger being stuck up instead of a thumb!


----------



## outlash (20 Jan 2016)

rugby bloke said:


> Been regularly cycling for 8 years now, in and around Northampton and I don't think things are any worse now then when I started. The only issue I have is one stretch of country road that leads towards "Santa Pod" - a drag racing strip. On weekends you get convoys of cars, whose drivers are living out their fantasies of driving dragsters. At a T junction my ride takes me right whilst they all go straight on. Getting the bike into the right place on the road then having the guts to stay there can be quite challenging.



I know where you mean, I've been out there quite a few times but coming from the other side of the A6. Personally, I've never had a problem on race weekends but I can see how it could be tricky as it's all country lanes apart from the A6 & A509. FWIW, you can get into Santa Pod for free as the Three Shires Way leads into the campsite. Just jump on your MTB or 'crosser...


----------



## al78 (21 Jan 2016)

teaboy said:


> Have you used the new Horsham cycle path yet ?[the 2 inch wide one]



Which new path is this? I don't tend to use cycle facilities much, other than the one which goes around the new estate, over the footbridge into the Tesco car park and onward into Broadbridge Heath; this route avoids the big A281/A24 roundabout.


----------



## teaboy (21 Jan 2016)

al78 said:


> Which new path is this? I don't tend to use cycle facilities much, other than the one which goes around the new estate, over the footbridge into the Tesco car park and onward into Broadbridge Heath; this route avoids the big A281/A24 roundabout.


Well its not a path its a new cycle lane[sorry]Parsonage road or is Parsonage lane?


----------



## RichardB (21 Jan 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I think it largely depends where you live. Down here in Pembrokeshire the traffic density is low, the pace of life is slower and people are used to plodding behind tractors for a few miles at a time.



Pembrokeshire here too. I avoid the A40 wherever possible, but otherwise the vast majority of drivers are pretty good. The only scares I have had in the last year have been those big racing tractors with massive trailers (40 mph on a single-track road and not stoppin' for no-one) and lorries. The car drivers are nearly always very courteous.



Mile195 said:


> Without wanting to start a war of words here, but I find other cyclists are more likely to do unexpected things these days than motorised traffic.



When I was riding a motorbike regularly, I always said that the only proper scares I had were from other motorcyclists. Membership of a group shouldn't blind you to idiotic and amateurish behaviour from other members of the same group.


----------



## Illaveago (21 Jan 2016)

I have noticed around here that driving is becoming worse. The amount of traffic has increased as people are comuting further. Mini roundabouts are taken as if they don't exist so long as they can see nothing to their right they will plough on regardless of the fact that somebody may have entered the roundabout in front of them. Even driving a car you have to keep your wits about you, driving along a narrow road with cars parked on one side ,the on coming vehicles will still over take forcing you to brake and take avoiding action even though you had right of way.


----------



## al78 (21 Jan 2016)

RichardB said:


> When I was riding a motorbike regularly, I always said that the only proper scares I had were from other motorcyclists. Membership of a group shouldn't blind you to idiotic and amateurish behaviour from other members of the same group.



I agree. I don't tend to think of other cyclists as a threat to my safety but in London last week I nearly got taken out by a prat who overtook me on the right then swung left right in front of me to go down a side road, which required significant brake application by me. I was in lane two of a three lane section of road (the southern end of Gower Street, heading for Shaftesbury Avenue) , why didn't he pass me in lane one if he wanted to turn left?


----------



## MiK1138 (22 Jan 2016)

in Glasgow, it not so much the drivers as the state of the roads, the road i commute on is like swiss cheese, and it seems to get worse on a daily basis. thank god we had a mild winter because a good hard frost after all this rain would have wiped out a large portion of Glasgows roads


----------



## classic33 (22 Jan 2016)

MiK1138 said:


> in Glasgow, it not so much the drivers as the state of the roads, the road i commute on is like swiss cheese, and it seems to get worse on a daily basis. thank god we had a mild winter because a good hard frost after all this rain would have wiped out a large portion of Glasgows roads


Taken a three foot section of repaired road into the local council offices after they said they'd sent someone out, who saw nothing wrong.


----------



## Shut Up Legs (22 Jan 2016)

It's certainly getting worse in Australia, as far as I can tell. I'm quite open to the possibility that it's just my perception, due to increasingly lower tolerance for b.s. There's a distinct hierarchy here, with motorists at the top, followed by motorcyclists, pedestrians and then cyclists.

I had an incident this morning which did nothing to dispel that impression: I was crossing an intersection, with the green pedestrian crossing light in front of me, when a right-turning motorist cut me off. He'd just entered the intersection on the red light. As he drove past me, I called out "idiot" (because as I mentioned my tolerance for b.s. is pretty low these days). He stopped further down the road, and as I walked past, he got out of his car, ran over to me, and pushed me against a fence.

At least in Australia, the roads are in better condition than they seem to be in the UK (judging from what I've read on these fora), so it's not all bad. I'm just depressed at the way cyclists and pedestrians are treated here. Driving a motor vehicle here is considered to be a right, not a privilege.


----------



## classic33 (22 Jan 2016)

@Shut Up Legs, in parts we're not that far behind you(Australia). It seldom makes the headlines here though.


----------



## Lonestar (22 Jan 2016)

slowmotion said:


> It took a bit of getting used to, but London is a fantastic place to ride. Nearly all the drivers are extremely considerate to cyclists. They are used them. The further away from the centre, driving standards seem to drop off a bit. The key is familiarity with road users on two wheels.
> Thank you London.
> Edit: My hairiest incidents involved drivers from out of town.



Can't agree.Lots are breaking the law in some way and many are in a hurry.Many try to get past in a pinch point in dodgy situations or tailgate if they can't.I no longer trust them and have to treat all of them like they are going to do something stupid and I must admit they don't let me down in that respect.


----------



## slowmotion (22 Jan 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Can't agree.Lots are breaking the law in some way and many are in a hurry.Many try to get past in a pinch point in dodgy situations or tailgate if they can't.I no longer trust them and have to treat all of them like they are going to do something stupid and I must admit they don't let me down in that respect.


I think that anybody who rides a bike in London has to expect every single vehicle (cyclists included) to do something incredibly stupid . Once over that hurdle, it's really good fun.


----------



## Illaveago (22 Jan 2016)

Some previous posts have mentioned that we as cyclists are also partly to blame for bad cycling. I have only seen a few incidents that come to mind, cyclists in stealth mode, cycling without any lights whatsoever when it is dark. Another occasion was when I was driving round a lefthand bend a cyclist leapt off the pavement and came towards me on my side of the road. That was close!
What infuriates my wife when she is driving to work are cyclists who refuse to use cycle lanes that have been provided for them. She finds that she has to follow the cyclists until it is safe to pass only to be undertaken whilst waiting at traffic lights.


----------



## Karlt (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> Some previous posts have mentioned that we as cyclists are also partly to blame for bad cycling. I have only seen a few incidents that come to mind, cyclists in stealth mode, cycling without any lights whatsoever when it is dark. Another occasion was when I was driving round a lefthand bend a cyclist leapt off the pavement and came towards me on my side of the road. That was close!
> What infuriates my wife when she is driving to work are cyclists who refuse to use cycle lanes that have been provided for them. She finds that she has to follow the cyclists until it is safe to pass only to be undertaken whilst waiting at traffic lights.



Ironically of course, that latter one is the one that's perfectly legal. There are lots of reasons for not using cycle lanes; perhaps you might want to educate your wife about them


----------



## Illaveago (22 Jan 2016)

I saw a good reason just now for not cycling in the road. It is raining and there are large lakes forming all along the nearside of the road whereas the cycle lane/ path only has a few puddles, also everything gets swept to the kurb nails, screws, broken glass and thorns, ideal material for punctures.


----------



## Profpointy (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> Some previous posts have mentioned that we as cyclists are also partly to blame for bad cycling. I have only seen a few incidents that come to mind, cyclists in stealth mode, cycling without any lights whatsoever when it is dark. Another occasion was when I was driving round a lefthand bend a cyclist leapt off the pavement and came towards me on my side of the road. That was close!
> What infuriates my wife when she is driving to work are cyclists who refuse to use cycle lanes that have been provided for them. She finds that she has to follow the cyclists until it is safe to pass only to be undertaken whilst waiting at traffic lights.



maybe the cyclists don't realise that your wife's journey is more important than theirs. I'm sure they'd happily accept the extra danger and inconvenience of the cycle lane if they understood that


----------



## Illaveago (22 Jan 2016)

Profpointy said:


> maybe the cyclists don't realise that your wife's journey is more important than theirs. I'm sure they'd happily accept the extra danger and inconvenience of the cycle lane if they understood that


No that is not the point. When a cycle lane is put in for your safety why not use it? Another thing there are a lot of pot holes in roads, surely a nice smooth surface would be preferable.


----------



## 400bhp (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> No that is not the point. When a cycle lane is put in for your safety why not use it? Another thing there are a lot of pot holes in roads, surely a nice smooth surface would be preferable.


They often aren't safe.


----------



## Karlt (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> No that is not the point. When a cycle lane is put in for your safety why not use it? Another thing there are a lot of pot holes in roads, surely a nice smooth surface would be preferable.



When it's safer, most of us do. Often it's not. It's not safer if it hugs the left and you want to go straight on or turn right at the next junction. It's not if it's too narrow and encourages close passes. Are you talking about cycle lanes (on road) or cycle paths (off road)? On road cycle lanes are better, but still have the above problems. Cycle paths are worse; not swept like the roads are, randomly wandering pedestrians, more conflict points with other traffic (e.g. on passing side-roads), convoluted routes...


----------



## Karlt (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> I saw a good reason just now for not cycling in the road. It is raining and there are large lakes forming all along the nearside of the road whereas the cycle lane/ path only has a few puddles, also everything gets swept to the kurb nails, screws, broken glass and thorns, ideal material for punctures.



That's why you ride in the lane, not in the gutter. Well, one of the reasons.


----------



## Profpointy (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> No that is not the point. When a cycle lane is put in for your safety why not use it? Another thing there are a lot of pot holes in roads, surely a nice smooth surface would be preferable.



Although I made my point flippantly, that is exactly the point. The overwhelming majority of cycle lanes make cycling more work, less convenient and more dangerous. The are Ok for small children pootling to the park (maybe?) but detremental to all other cyclists. Their very existance makes cycling more dangerous on the roads - your view above sugests at least slight annoyance with cyclists not using them - which in too many cases translates to outright aggression (not accusing you of aggression, but the point stands).

On road cycle lanes - say 1m wide - the safest place to cycle is just outside. If you cycle within the lane you are very likely to get your elbows brushed by cars (or hit) as cars will drive to the line and give you less space than if the lane wasn't there. Never mind those lanes narrower than I bike - I've seen a good few of these

Off road cycle paths cross every junction so you have to give way every 50 yards - and every driveway becomes a hazzard.

Fine for pootling but getting to work - no!

And then there's broken glass, thorns, potholes and all the rest.


----------



## mjr (22 Jan 2016)

Illaveago said:


> What infuriates my wife when she is driving to work are cyclists who refuse to use cycle lanes that have been provided for them.


Your wife should complain to the local councils if they're building shoot that cyclists wouldn't choose to use. It's not like many cyclists WANT to ride among motorists that can kill them through carelessness, if all else is equal.


----------



## mjr (22 Jan 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Off road cycle paths cross every junction so you have to give way every 50 yards - and every driveway becomes a hazzard.


I agree with much of your reasoning but you're going a bit far there. Sadly, every driveway is a hazard even if you're on the road, and of course cycle tracks should be sited to cross as few motorist junctions as possible as safely as possible but often aren't. 

And the proper term is cycle tracks. "Off road cycle path" is bike bashing propaganda to suggest that lower quality is OK because it's off road and cyclists are second class guests because it's a path and cycles aren't generally allowed on paths by right.


----------



## Profpointy (22 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> I agree with much of your reasoning but you're going a bit far there. Sadly, every driveway is a hazard even if you're on the road, and of course cycle tracks should be sited to cross as few motorist junctions as possible as safely as possible but often aren't.
> 
> And the proper term is cycle tracks. "Off road cycle path" is bike bashing propaganda to suggest that lower quality is OK because it's off road and cyclists are second class guests because it's a path and cycles aren't generally allowed on paths by right.



I think the driveway hazard thing is more serious for a cycle path. Motorists tend to (mostly, or at least most understand they should) look for traffic in the road itself, bikes included, but on the "pavement" as they might see it, not so much - and yes, I do know they should.

And I give this example

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7aqiJc0gK2A/Ua4kfh3T6JI/AAAAAAAABZM/OjKD-86Ys2c/s1600/harlow-dismounts.jpg


----------



## mjr (22 Jan 2016)

Around here, most motorists give way to the cycle track. Some other places, most don't give way to bikes even if they're on the road. The exact stats are vague, incomplete and largely irrelevant. You have to remain vigilant every time because it doesn't much matter if you were in the right because it's nearly always better not to be knocked down.

I used that notorious Harlow pic myself earlier today, explaining why "cyclists dismount" signs are in disrepute and usually ignored.


----------



## bladesman73 (22 Jan 2016)

We shouldn't need cycle paths. Drivers should be more considerate to other human beings and slow the eff down. Stop trying to be nikki effin lauda as well.


----------



## bladesman73 (22 Jan 2016)

I was in belgium for a bit last year, cars bowed down to the cyclist whenever we needed to use the roads. Its a cultural issue, our country has a high percentage of tw@ts


----------



## steve292 (22 Jan 2016)

bladesman73 said:


> I was in belgium for a bit last year, cars bowed down to the cyclist whenever we needed to use the roads. Its a cultural issue, our country has a high percentage of tw@ts


^^^^^^^^^^
This in spades, in cars, on bikes, and walking


----------



## glenn forger (23 Jan 2016)

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/142..._and_attacked_driver_then_smashed_his_window/


----------



## Dec66 (23 Jan 2016)

glenn forger said:


> http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/142..._and_attacked_driver_then_smashed_his_window/


Why is the driver "Mr." Lowson, whereas the cyclist is plain McDermott?


----------



## Shut Up Legs (23 Jan 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Why is the driver "Mr." Lowson, whereas the cyclist is plain McDermott?


I'm guessing it's for the same reason that the motorist didn't get fined (or at least, the article never mentioned it). Prejudice.


----------



## growingvegetables (23 Jan 2016)

"The 41-year-old man was referred to the driver improvement scheme" .... for a hit-and-run, refusing to give his insurance details.


----------



## Travs (23 Jan 2016)

I'd like to hope the name is more to do with copy-and-paste or some sort of auto-complete as its consistent. But I could be wrong.

However, although I don't condone the cyclist's retaliation, the most shocking thing is the fact that driving away from the scene of an accident and not giving insurance details didn't receive any more of a response from the police. Plus the fact that, according to witnesses, he either swerved to avoid a traffic cone or drove at the cyclist. The latter is going to be something along the lines of dangerous driving or attempted something, but the former is at least driving without due care I would have thought? With witnesses its much more of a case than just one word versus another.


----------



## newfhouse (23 Jan 2016)

bladesman73 said:


> I was in belgium for a bit last year, cars bowed down to the cyclist whenever we needed to use the roads. Its a cultural issue


This. I spent ten days pootling from Hoek to Copenhagen last Summer, my first time cycling outside the UK. It took me a while to overcome my London commuting reflexes and have confidence that drivers would naturally give way to me at road junctions.


----------



## al78 (23 Jan 2016)

teaboy said:


> Well its not a path its a new cycle lane[sorry]Parsonage road or is Parsonage lane?



Ok, yes that one is crap, too narrow and a poor surface, it shouldn't be on a road that narrow, there isn't the room to do a proper job.


----------



## Profpointy (23 Jan 2016)

al78 said:


> Ok, yes that one is crap, too narrow and a poor surface, it shouldn't be on a road that narrow, there isn't the room to do a proper job.



There's a quite profound but also, one would have thought, obvious point there. If the road's wide enough for an on-road cycle lane, it's not needed, and if it's not wide enough, then the lane creates a lot of extra risk for the poor cyclist


----------



## rideswithmoobs (23 Jan 2016)

Cycling up here seems pretty good. Lots of cyclist, Lancaster council/Morecambe has invested a lot in cycle paths and routed and been on the door step of the lakes we are spoilt for choice on where to cycle. Sure there are knobs and others may have tales of woe but I find it no worse then when in car or out on motorbike. Agree it's a cultural thing and maybe around here it's more accepted and a common site so pretty good.


----------



## TheVexatiousLitigant (25 Jan 2016)

classic33 said:


> You should give it a go sometime.


South Yorkshire is generally very safe, but I was living in New Zealand 18 months ago, so I think even Russian drivers would feel safe to me!


----------



## mjr (12 Feb 2016)

Profpointy said:


> There's a quite profound but also, one would have thought, obvious point there. If the road's wide enough for an on-road cycle lane, it's not needed, and if it's not wide enough, then the lane creates a lot of extra risk for the poor cyclist


If the road's wide enough, it _shouldn't_ be needed, but the amount of bloody motorists that won't even move to the rightmost of a wide lane to pass means that is can be helpful. I agree completely about when it's not wide enough, though: almost all sub-2m lanes should be removed, as far as I can recall.


----------



## 123456789 (12 Feb 2016)

Cycling around the country lanes of Essex it's not too bad. You do get the odd close pass and idiot but generally it's the exception not the rule.

This all reverses as soon as I return from my ride and get back in my local town (Rayleigh) then as soon as it get's built up close passes and moronic behaviour are the rule not the exception.

Interestingly early morning in town it's not too bad it's only late morning - 11am ish onwards or when all the Sheeple come out and about that it all changes


----------



## mjr (12 Feb 2016)

123456789 said:


> This all reverses as soon as I return from my ride and get back in my local town (Rayleigh) then as soon as it get's built up close passes and moronic behaviour are the rule not the exception.


I have a theory about that: I suspect too many motorists see speed limits as targets even when they enter an area so busy that stimuli are occurring faster than they can process them correctly. Rather than slow down a bit and relax, they fail to handle of many of them, especially relatively rare ones like cycles, getting more and more flustered and stressed as they get further into the area and so making more and more poor decisions. Most speed limits are set a bit high for stimuli density because the highway planners see it as a limit not a target.

This is why when you're in a less-built-up-than-usual bit of a speed limit (the classic 30mph road that looks like a 40, for example), you get fewer incidents - except for the speeding nutters.


----------



## Karlt (12 Feb 2016)

Too much emphasis by instructors and examiners on "making progress" IME.


----------



## Smokin Joe (12 Feb 2016)

Karlt said:


> Too much emphasis by instructors and examiners on "making progress" IME.


As a former instructor I'll agree with that. Inexperienced drivers are being taught to drive at speeds they are not ready for - not the instructors fault as they have to train drivers to the standard the DSA require.


----------

