# The modern trend for high drop bars.



## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

Been looking at modern road bikes and there's (IMO) a horrible trend to have the bars as high or higher than the saddle to me it looks plain wrong.

but as brad proves it doesn't have to be that way so what's going on.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> Been looking at modern road bikes and there's (IMO) a horrible trend to have the bars as high or higher than the saddle to me it looks plain wrong.
> .


 
Really? I haven't noticed this at all. Pictures please.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Apr 2013)

You're gonna need to provide examples that aren't Bradley Wiggins doing the opposite.


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## Nearly there (3 Apr 2013)

Have you seen someone who's flipped the stem on there bike maybe due to a bad back or something?


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Apr 2013)

Out of curiousity why use a picture of someone who rides a frame with custom geometry made specifically for him?
At this time the simple answer is that consumers have to fit their bike, while pinerello fit the bike to brad


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## youngoldbloke (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> Been looking at modern road bikes and there's (IMO) a horrible trend to have the bars as high or higher than the saddle to me it looks plain wrong.


I thought everyone knew Rule 45?


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## Banjo (3 Apr 2013)

I know he is now persona non grata but Lance Armstrong used to ride with the seat not much higher than the bars.


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## Gary E (3 Apr 2013)

If its comfortable, it's right! We're not all training for the Tour.

I think one of the reasons that people try drops and don't get on with them is that they're pressurised into setting them up in the 'correct' way. Not everyone wants to ride with their head between their knees


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## ianrauk (3 Apr 2013)

Half the fat git mamils I see on bikes these days couldn't even get into low drops anyway..... myself included.


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## tyred (3 Apr 2013)

Gary E said:


> If its comfortable, it's right! We're not all training for the Tour.
> 
> I think one of the reasons that people try drops and don't get on with them is that they're pressurised into setting them up in the 'correct' way. Not everyone wants to ride with their head between their knees


 
Absolutely.

No right or wrong way to do it. Better to look "unfashionable" than to arrive home with sore back/shoulders/hands/arms and dump the bike in the garage for the next 20 years in disgust.

I wonder does the low bar position and race spec gearing explain the amount of basically unused road bikes from down through the years that turn up at car boot sales and the like?


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## Boris Bajic (3 Apr 2013)

As my children got used to riding on drop bars (starting with a 43cm frame on 650c wheels, which was _ridiculously_ cute) they used all sorts of bizarre set-ups to ease the transition from their MTB-lookalike kiddie bikes. All three (if I recall) started with the stem higher than the saddle.

They now all have something like_ 'standard'_ set-ups on_ 'proper'_ road bikes with horizontal crossbars. But they eased into those positions over a year or two.

My wife (an occasional rider) uses my daughter's bike but with the bars raised to saddle height. She likes it that way. She's allowed to.

I think the trick is to ride the geometry you enjoy and not to pander to fashion. I confess I do not see huge numbers of riders with their bars set too high. Does the OP live near an orthopedic outpatient unit and ride regularly past patients on their way to or from appointments?

What does amuse me a little is the absolute conviction on the part of some cyclists that there is a 'correct' position which cannot be bettered and that the best way to find it is with a professional bike fit. I've moved my position a little this way and that over the years and will probably continue to do so.

Each rider probably has several 'correct' positions and bike set-ups. Even the pros like to move their bars around a little on longer stage races to allow them to alter their position.

I hope this post has helped to clarify this most complex of issues, but I fear it has done nothing of the sort.

Carry on.


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You're gonna need to provide examples that aren't Bradley Wiggins doing the opposite.


Yeah wiggins was probably a bad example as he's so tall.


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## Rob3rt (3 Apr 2013)

I thought it was only CC members with the wrong sized bike or who bought the wrong type of bike that did that?


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

Don't get me wrong from a comfort view I can see why you would have high drops but then why have drops at all surly your defeating the aero advantage of getting down on them?


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## Gary E (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> Don't get me wrong from a comfort view I can see why you would have high drops but then why have drops at all surly your defeating the aero advantage of getting down on them?


Yes, but you're not a proper cyclist if you don't have drops. Some people who use drops would undoubtedly be better suited to flats but peer pressure is a wonderful thing :s


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> Yeah wiggins was probably a bad example as he's so tall.


Cervelo and Felt are clearly catalogue pics. The Triban I would guess was too big for the owner hence lower saddle height. Stem plonked on top of a 40mm stack doesn't help the look either.


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## fossala (3 Apr 2013)

I tend to have my handlebars around level with my seatpost, maybe a little lower. That way it's comftable for long rides. I then use the drops to get in an "aero" position, like their intentions.


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

Gary E said:


> Yes, but you're not a proper cyclist if you don't have drops. Some people who use drops would undoubtedly be better suited to flats but peer pressure is a wonderful thing :s


As well in the days of quill stems you couldn't go to high but with a lot of modern road bikes you do get excessively long steerer tubes that of course you can cut down but it seems many dont.


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Cervelo and Felt are clearly catalogue pics. .


 
So doesn't that prove they sell them like that?


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## fossala (3 Apr 2013)

Another problem with cycling is that it's very elitest. It's kind of, you're one of us or you're the worst thing to walk the world.


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## Rob3rt (3 Apr 2013)

The only trend I observe is one of people buying new bikes in a rush and ending up with the wrong bike for their needs or the right bike, but in the wrong size and then having to bodge it to get it into a state they can ride it further than round the block. A 5 minute scope around the forums is evidence in itself.



SS Retro said:


> So doesn't that prove they sell them like that?


 
All it proves is the seat can be put in that position!  Pretty much everyone who buys said bike will have the saddle in a unique to them location.



fossala said:


> Another problem with cycling is that it's very elitest. It's kind of, you're one of us or you're the worst thing to walk the world.


 
Are you for real?


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> The only trend I observe is one of people buying new bikes in a rush and ending up with the wrong bike for their needs or the right bike, but in the wrong size and then having to bodge it to get it into a state they can ride it further than round the block. A 5 minute scope around the forums is evidence in itself.


Not going to argue with that I am far to elitist!
Would be interesting to see how many people come out of a professional bike fit with the bars higher than the saddle?


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## deptfordmarmoset (3 Apr 2013)

I wonder if there's a bit of ''happy clock faces'' going on - you know those watches set to 10 past 10 which are often only set to the right time when you buy one. Perhaps the appearance of a long seat post towering over the top tube looks extreme on its own, particularly when there appears to be a sizeable percentage of riders coming from an MTB or hybrid background.


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## MacB (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> Not going to argue with that I am far to elitist!
> Would be interesting to see how many people come out of a professional bike fit with the bars higher than the saddle?


 
That would depend on what they are getting the fit for and how 'professional' the fitter is. A true professional would fit you to match your fitness levels, flexibility and riding goals. They would also throw in an explanation of how to alter things should any of these 3 factors change.

There are fits that work to a formula and result in a setup that you may have to train or grow into and you may never get there. Then there are fits that actually match the person as they are at that point in time.


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## snailracer (3 Apr 2013)

With the advent of brifters, I reckon riders spend more time on the hoods than they used to. Previously, more time was spent on the tops, because with downtube shifters it was more convenient to change gear from the tops than the hoods. As the hoods are further forward than the tops, all things being equal, modern brifter-equipped bikes SHOULD have bars higher than vintage bikes, because the added reach to the hoods need to be offset by added height in order to get the same body position.


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## MisterStan (3 Apr 2013)

ianrauk said:


> Half the fat git mamils I see on bikes these days couldn't even get into low drops anyway..... myself included.


I don't know Ian, black is very slimming.....


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## GrasB (3 Apr 2013)

snailracer said:


> With the advent of brifters, I reckon riders spend more time on the hoods than they used to. Previously, more time was spent on the tops, because with downtube shifters it was more convenient to change gear from the tops than the hoods. As the hoods are further forward than the tops, all things being equal, modern brifter-equipped bikes SHOULD have bars higher than vintage bikes, because the added reach to the hoods need to be offset by added height in order to get the same body position.


This and also current frame/fit fashion seems to be 'long & low', there are some interesting advantages to this, one of which is minimising knee/elbow overlap when deep in the drops. The reason for this advantage is that for the same torso position you need higher bars which keeps your elbows further away from your knees while maintain a good aero shape.


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## zizou (3 Apr 2013)

A modern trend?













Obviously bike geometry has changed somewhat with compact frames these days but there is a fashion/trend to 'slam the stem'. This can be effective in terms of aerodynamics (etc) but many of people who do it end up in a position where they have straight arms which is daft and for them ends up more about following fashion over function.


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## snailracer (3 Apr 2013)

zizou said:


> A modern trend?
> ...
> Obviously bike geometry has changed somewhat with compact frames these days but there is a fashion/trend to 'slam the stem'. This can be effective in terms of aerodynamics (etc) but many of people who do it end up in a position where they have straight arms which is daft and for them ends up more about following fashion over function.


The OP was suggesting high drop bars being a modern trend. Those vintage pics show low bars on vintage bikes, which supports the OP's claim, no?


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## S1mon (3 Apr 2013)

MacB said:


> That would depend on what they are getting the fit for and how 'professional' the fitter is. A true professional would fit you to match your fitness levels, flexibility and riding goals. They would also throw in an explanation of how to alter things should any of these 3 factors change.
> 
> There are fits that work to a formula and result in a setup that you may have to train or grow into and you may never get there. Then there are fits that actually match the person as they are at that point in time.


 
yes i agree bought my bike with the fit part of the deal now 2 years on i ride totally different (loss of beer gut) and the shop did a free tweak of my position seat up a bit etc so in time we change how we ride so the fitter told me


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## Lee_M (3 Apr 2013)

I had a proper bike fit when I bought the domane, and have bars higher than my seat because that works for a 6' 3" 51 yr old following a back operation

I didn't realise it was wrong, and that I'm not allowed to be a cyclist unless I fit into a certain geometry - I'll go and chuck my bike in a skip

seriously to the OP, what does it matter if we're riding?

I'm never going to win the TdF, and I suspect neither will you, so why not ride what is comfortable?


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## youngoldbloke (3 Apr 2013)

Re bike images - you can find whatever you want to find - eg. every bike shown on Ribbles' website, every road bike on Wiggle's site, how about Rose? Canyon? I'm not convinced that bars are getting higher, but I will agree with Rob3rt:


Rob3rt said:


> The only trend I observe is one of people buying new bikes in a rush and ending up with the wrong bike for their needs or the right bike, but in the wrong size and then having to bodge it to get it into a state they can ride it further than round the block. A 5 minute scope around the forums is evidence in itself.
> All it proves is the seat can be put in that position!  Pretty much everyone who buys said bike will have the saddle in a unique to them location.


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## Cyclist33 (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> So doesn't that prove they sell them like that?


 
In the case of the Felt pic, which is a Z series bike, it's clear to me at least that that is a) a women's specific model as it's pink paintwork indicates, and also the frame size is pretty small because the join of the top and seat tubes is well below the soffit level of the back wheel. So its saddle is lower based on a general(ised) assumption that the rider of that specific model in that specific size would have the saddle round about there.

Likewise the Cervelo looks like a small frame.

You've actually got a point in my opinion, but a woeful way of demonstrating it!

I still recommend hybrids or flat bar road bikes to people who want to get a road bike but actually want to ride it upright and will hardly ever use the drops.

Stu


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2013)

Lee_M said:


> I didn't realise it was wrong, and that I'm not allowed to be a cyclist unless I fit into a certain geometry - I'll go and chuck my bike in a skip


 
Go back and read the orginal post! I never said it was wrong, I said it looks wrong IMO so go get your skip out of the bike. 


Cyclist33 said:


> I
> 
> You've actually got a point in my opinion, but a woeful way of demonstrating it!


Yeah I would say it wasn't my finest post.


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## coffeejo (3 Apr 2013)

OP says "bars", which to me means the tops/hoods. Others are talking specifically about drops.

Just thought I'd point that out.

As you were.


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## zizou (3 Apr 2013)

snailracer said:


> The OP was suggesting high drop bars being a modern trend. Those vintage pics show low bars on vintage bikes, which supports the OP's claim, no?


 
I dont think so - the saddle to bar drop is considerably smaller compared to what the trend / fashion is these days amongst the pros. Although this is partly (like you posted earlier) to do with the difference in riding on the hoods now compared to the past.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Apr 2013)

zizou said:


> I dont think so - the saddle to bar drop is considerably smaller compared to what the trend / fashion is these days amongst the pros. Although this is partly (like you posted earlier) to do with the difference in riding on the hoods now compared to the past.


I disagree, we always rode on the hoods to cover the brakes. It was simply more 'the thing' to ride bikes with larger frames - higher top tubes - therefore less seat post showing. I still ride a Peugeot with down tube shifters, and the set up is as near as dammit the same as my other, 'modern' bikes.


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## Ningishzidda (3 Apr 2013)

The only thing 'custom' on Wiggo's bike is the paint.
The Pinno frame is one straight out of the carbon fibre moulding factory. Anyone can buy one. Pinno wouldn't commission a mould especially for Wiggo. It is one of the seven sizes Pinno have moulded.




I know cus' I spoke to the men who ride the things.

Handlebar position is dependent upon the posture of the rider to get maximum Watts per heart rate. A group of torso muscles working when they needn't be takes Watts out of the legs. Also, the most predominant spine position for ergonometrically perfect riding is somewhere between 40 and 45 degrees from the horizontal.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> So doesn't that prove they sell them like that?


Nope. All it proves is the seatpost and bars were in that position when the picture was taken.


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## Ningishzidda (3 Apr 2013)

Here are my two competition bikes.
The Alloy SWorks in the foreground has its handlebars considerably lower than the saddle surface and the saddle surface is level.
The Shiv in the background has its saddle nose down and the aerobars higher than the SWorks. Both bikes are how they are because those are the settings which give me maximum power for a 85% HR.
Testing was done with me holding the SWorks 'on the drops'.

Don't look at pictures of riders and make a decision 'That's how I'm going to set up my bike." It will probably be wrong for you.


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## Matthew_T (3 Apr 2013)

Banjo said:


> I know he is now persona non grata but Lance Armstrong used to ride with the seat not much higher than the bars.


But Lance was on drugs.


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## Si_ (3 Apr 2013)

Gary E said:


> Yes, but you're not a proper cyclist if you don't have drops. Some people who use drops would undoubtedly be better suited to flats but peer pressure is a wonderful thing :s


 
interesting drops/flat debate.

i was thinking to other day on my commute that for my purposes chopping the lower half off the drops would work fine. i never use them anyway as i ride most if not all the time on the brake hoods.

i prefer the feel of climbing on a set of drop bars, (again onthe hoods) as the angle my wrist is at feel more natural climbing out the saddle. having said that i sent years as a wide riser bar MTB'er but age and commuter/road use has pulled me back to the CX drop bar set up.


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## snailracer (3 Apr 2013)

zizou said:


> I dont think so - the saddle to bar drop is considerably smaller compared to what the trend / fashion is these days amongst the pros. Although this is partly (like you posted earlier) to do with the difference in riding on the hoods now compared to the past.


I think we are confused here, because the OP itself was a bit confusing.
You are saying that a modern setups have a larger saddle-to-bar drop - the OP and myself are suggesting the opposite (when it comes to riders who are not Bradley Wiggins).


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## Boris Bajic (3 Apr 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> But Lance was on drugs.


I haven't kept up with this story lately, but I thought all those drug rumours about Lance had been dropped and he was in the clear.

Has something changed?


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## Matthew_T (3 Apr 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> I haven't kept up with this story lately, but I thought all those drug rumours about Lance had been dropped and he was in the clear.
> 
> Has something changed?


He took drugs which enhanced his performance. He even admitted it.

Case closed.


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## Rob3rt (3 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> ...


 
You are a triathlete?


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## Peteaud (3 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> .


 
Feck me those bikes are big, just look how close they are to the ceiling


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## subaqua (3 Apr 2013)

SS Retro said:


> So doesn't that prove they sell them like that?


 nope. I have a catalogue of a wheeled vehicle that says "model shown unavailable to purchase". its a marketing special for a catalogue pic


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## Ningishzidda (4 Apr 2013)

Peteaud said:


> Feck me those bikes are big, just look how close they are to the ceiling


Naaa. The live on the top bunk.

What's interesting to note. Both bikes have the same 'Standover' height. The SWorks is a 54 cm size, and the Shiv is XS.
There is a 52, 50 and 48 cm SWorks but the XS is the smallest Shiv.

The Shiv is legal for United States Triathlon, but NOT legal for UCI events. ( The downtube has an illegal profile ).
Other differences include the effective seat angle, reach and head angle.
The Shiv has a much shallower head angle, is more stable in a straight line, but needs working round a corner.
The Shiv is 3 lb heavier than the SWorks, but hey, it don't half move. 
Both bikes have Conti 20mm 'Supersonic' tyres at 145 psi.


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Apr 2013)

um... who cares?
um two... what % of the time do folk ride on the drops, rather than hoods/tops, when not actually racing
um three... what % of the time do road race bikes sold to their target demographic (MAMIL) actually spend getting raced? (even raced to the next lamp post or village sign)

No MAMIL me, I'm an OMIL


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## Fab Foodie (4 Apr 2013)

ianrauk said:


> Half the fat git mamils I see on bikes these days couldn't even get into low drops anyway..... myself included.


 It's why I ride a compact frame these days, with the bars several inches below the saddle I need some swing room for the aerobelly ....


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## GrasB (4 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Handlebar position is dependent upon the posture of the rider to get maximum Watts per heart rate.


In which case they may have got it wrong! It's the maximum power:drag ratio for a given heart rate. This ratio normally does _not_ coincide with maximum power for a given heart rate.



> A group of torso muscles working when they needn't be takes Watts out of the legs. Also, the most predominant spine position for ergonometrically perfect riding is somewhere between 40 and 45 degrees from the horizontal.


Making some fairly large ergonomic assumptions here, mainly based on the UCI rule book. These assumptions may or may not be applicable to the bike in question. Eg. One of my bikes has an 82 deg seat tube angle this. This would make the 40-45 degree angle assertion invalid & make it closer to 30-35 degrees.


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## Ningishzidda (4 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> In which case they may have got it wrong! It's the maximum power:drag ratio for a given heart rate. This ratio normally does _not_ coincide with maximum power for a given heart rate.
> 
> 
> > This is indeed true.
> ...


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## GrasB (4 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> This is indeed true.
> I could not afford to take my bike into a wind tunnel, so opted for an ergometer / chassis dynamometer fitting session.
> It just so happened that with hands on drops, my power output was higher than with hands on hoods, so with the 'tuck' position instead of the 'crouch', its a double whammy win-win.


 
You don't need a wind tunnel. You can do cost-down or powered run which give very sensitive results, you should be able tell which set of runs you had your jersey open & fully zipped!, given a good test venue; a ~1 mile traffic light loop with open corners, close to home/base & wind sheltered is a real bonus (it's about controlling the variables, wind sheltered isn't a problem if your loop is on your door step, you just have to wait for a still day).


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## Cyclist33 (4 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Naaa. The live on the top bunk.
> 
> What's interesting to note. Both bikes have the same 'Standover' height. The SWorks is a 54 cm size, and the Shiv is XS.
> There is a 52, 50 and 48 cm SWorks but the XS is the smallest Shiv.
> ...


 
That's not particularly interesting to note!


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## Ningishzidda (4 Apr 2013)

Cyclist33 said:


> That's not particularly interesting to note!


 Oops. The 'Standover height' debate is on the CTC forum,,,


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## Ningishzidda (4 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> You don't need a wind tunnel. You can do cost-down or powered run which give very sensitive results, you should be able tell which set of runs you had your jersey open & fully zipped!, given a good test venue; a ~1 mile traffic light loop with open corners, close to home/base & wind sheltered is a real bonus (it's about controlling the variables, wind sheltered isn't a problem if your loop is on your door step, you just have to wait for a still day).


 
Yeh.
I'm fluent with 'equilibrium velocity' of object falling through a fluid. ( pun intended ).
That tells me how much power is required to achieve x speed.
What the ergonometer test tell me is how much power I can produce at various body positions.
The coast-down tests need to be done with the various body positions to deterrmine which position has the most advantage in association with power production to get to the end of the 10 mile TT quickest.


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## Rob3rt (4 Apr 2013)

To satisfy my curiosity, why did you choose the non-UCI legal Shiv?


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## Davidc (4 Apr 2013)

Comfort first!

40 years ago I had the tops lower than the saddle, and spent a fair amount of time on the drops.

I was very fit and didn't have a beer belly then

Now the tops are roughly level with the saddle, and I don't spend all that much time on the drops. (I do still use the drops, just not as often. Last night going home into a 15 mph 4 deg C wind they certainly came in useful for 20 minutes.)

Now I'm fitter than most people my age, do have a moderate beer belly, don't do time trials, etc.


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## Shortmember (4 Apr 2013)

I couldn't get comfortable with the drop bars fitted to my bike, probably because my arms are too short,my legs are too long and my arse is too fat, so I took a hacksaw to the drops, turned the bars upside down, added a stem raiser and pushed the saddle as far forward as possible.Setting it up like this may be a form of cycling blasphemy, but it's a perfect riding position for me.


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## GrasB (4 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Yeh.
> The coast-down tests need to be done with the various body positions to deterrmine which position has the most advantage in association with power production to get to the end of the 10 mile TT quickest.


Is that just doing timing tests or are you using the Chung method to get Crr & CdA values?


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## Cyclopathic (4 Apr 2013)

I sometimes prefer my drops higher than the saddle. Also flat pedals and a gel seat. I like to get it just how I like to ride it and could not give a stuff for the crazy rules. I've been riding a bike since before some people were born and in some cases whilst so I like to think I know a thing or two about stuff. Hey, if it's raining I'll even stick a lightweight mudguard on the rear wheel of my roadbike. 
Comfortable and with a dry backside...That's how I roll.
(And I ride it in my regular clothes (maybe some trackie bottoms and a t-shirt))


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## Hip Priest (4 Apr 2013)

My saddle is much higher than the bars on both bikes. Now, where do I get my 'I'm Awesome' t-shirt?


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## youngoldbloke (4 Apr 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> My saddle is much higher than the bars on both bikes. Now, where do I get my 'I'm Awesome' t-shirt?


Google is your friend


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## snailracer (4 Apr 2013)




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## NotFabian (4 Apr 2013)

snailracer said:


>


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## Shut Up Legs (4 Apr 2013)

I'm one of those "high drop" bar people, I'm afraid. I just find the hand positions more comfortable when using the drops, but my back's more comfortable if the handlebars are as high as possible, hence my odd setup:






Yes, it looks weird, but I've done rides on this new road bike of up to 170km and 4000m climbing using this setup, and it works for me.


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## Ningishzidda (5 Apr 2013)

GrasB said:


> Is that just doing timing tests or are you using the Chung method to get Crr & CdA values?


 "The Chung method???". There's nothing like a bit of plageurism.

I use the calcs from the Robert Bosch Automotive Handbook, first published when Ferdinand Porsche was designing the VolksWagen 'People's car'.
IIRC, it was John Boyd Dunlop, William Froude and John Kemp Starley who first dreamed up a method of determining the aerodynamic and tyre deformation drag of a wheeled vehicle.

As they say, "There's nothing new in cycling."


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## Ningishzidda (7 Apr 2013)

Having the handlebars in the most ergonomically advantageous position is not a new trend.






Ignore my Mum. She was wondering why that chap was holding up a cigarette case, and why he was wearing a silver plastic hat with slots in it.


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## tyred (8 Apr 2013)

snailracer said:


>


 
Much as I respect Sheldon's contribution to the cycling world, that is most probably the ugliest bike ever and I can't help wonder if he needed so many hand positions, he clearly had bought a frame that didn't fit him properly.


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## snailracer (8 Apr 2013)

tyred said:


> Much as I respect Sheldon's contribution to the cycling world, that is most probably the ugliest bike ever and I can't help wonder if he needed so many hand positions, he clearly had bought a frame that didn't fit him properly.


No, it was a whimsy project, something he built for his own amusement because he could.


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## oldroadman (8 Apr 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> As my children got used to riding on drop bars (starting with a 43cm frame on 650c wheels, which was _ridiculously_ cute) they used all sorts of bizarre set-ups to ease the transition from their MTB-lookalike kiddie bikes. All three (if I recall) started with the stem higher than the saddle.
> 
> They now all have something like_ 'standard'_ set-ups on_ 'proper'_ road bikes with horizontal crossbars. But they eased into those positions over a year or two.
> 
> ...


 
Er, never did, altering position is asking for injuries to crop up in the back/shoulders area. The only time I can recall this was due to crash injuries. When you cover 20,000+ km a year you get a position which works and stay with it, training and racing. Of course, TT bikes are a different matter, but that's not too many times a year, thank goodness!


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## Kiwiavenger (8 Apr 2013)

ive just flipped my stem resulting in equal saddle/handlebar height. ive also rotated the hoods so the hoods are higher.

Does this make me a heathen???


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## MisterStan (8 Apr 2013)

Kiwiavenger said:


> ive just flipped my stem resulting in equal saddle/handlebar height. ive also rotated the hoods so the hoods are higher.
> 
> Does this make me a heathen???


Burn him!


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## 400bhp (8 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> To satisfy my curiosity, why did you choose the non-UCI legal Shiv?


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## albion (8 Apr 2013)

After riding drops for most of my life I appreciated the relaxed always in control nature of the hybrid immediately.
I have converted a road bike to flat bar and strangely find the mid way stance it gives a compromise I have grown to love.

With more choice out there I do think it will fast become a preference for the leisure rider. 
The supposed 'modern trend' hints that this could be the case.


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## thegravestoneman (8 Apr 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Having the handlebars in the most ergonomically advantageous position is not a new trend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ahh! North road bars on show still find em a lovely relaxed way of riding, particularly with a fixed.


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## Boris Bajic (10 Apr 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> He took drugs which enhanced his performance. He even admitted it.
> 
> Case closed.


 
Nothing about that on the Internet.

I think you're pulling my leg!

Is this the chap from Texas who was terribly ill and then won all those races?

Not exactly the kind of chap who'd cheat, I think.


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