# A fasted 1hr ride before a normal breakfast - maximum per week?



## Jon George (4 Dec 2014)

In an effort to remove about a stone of beer belly acquired over the summer, I have embarked on a daily (week days) fasted ride of just over an hour before my regular breakfast. I popped into my LBS today and the subject came up. The assistant (a keen CX competitor) seemed horrified and recommended limiting these to a maximum of three a week. The original magazine article on cycling fitness which prompted me to try this approach didn't mention anything about restricting the number and I can't find any reputable internet articles to confirm or repudiate. Opinions would be gratefully received.


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## jack smith (4 Dec 2014)

Just do it as much as you can, i had to loose weight for the paras to get under their rediculous bmi limit i didnt eat for one or two days a week and i would still run/ cycle i was dropping a few kg a day by the end of it cant be healthy but it bloody works.


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## Stephen C (4 Dec 2014)

I do it 5 days a week before an hours commute, I can't cycle just after eating so to have breakfast before I commute then leave time for it to settle would mean getting up at stupid'o'clock. I've never had any trouble with it, even on days when I've pushed hard, just make sure you refuel sensibly after with a good breakfast.


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## 4F (4 Dec 2014)

Mon to Fri I go to the gym for 45 minutes and then cycle an hour to work. Been doing it now for 4 years with no side effects and only eat when I get into work.


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## jack smith (4 Dec 2014)

If you really want to drop the lbs you could always fast 1-2 days a week as i say not healthy at all but chuck in a commute to work and your working off fat alone takes dedication not to eat mind its hard work


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## DaveReading (4 Dec 2014)

Don't do it more than 7 times in any given week.


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## Shut Up Legs (4 Dec 2014)

For 6 years now, I have a just over 1 hour commute every week day, then have something to eat when I get to work, and my weight has been stable all that time. I just ensure that I drink a glass or 2 of water before I leave.


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## Mrs M (4 Dec 2014)

Have you tried the 5:2 diet, I've read the book  !!
Good luck with your efforts.


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## Saluki (4 Dec 2014)

Why not just do the 5:2 diet. The pounds shift, it's not a quick fix but a lifestyle choice. I ride fast days (not this week though as it keeps raining)


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## Jon George (4 Dec 2014)

DaveReading said:


> Don't do it more than 7 times in any given week.


Go get your coat!


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## winjim (4 Dec 2014)

DaveReading said:


> Don't do it more than 7 times in any given week.


If you're having more than 7 breakfasts a week then I think I can see your problem.


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## Joshua Plumtree (4 Dec 2014)

Can't see this being a problem. Everyone has more than enough stored energy to cope with an hour's cycling before breakfast!!


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## screenman (4 Dec 2014)

Only do it on weekends and week days, same as drinking booze.


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## BigAl68 (4 Dec 2014)

Get up at 4am.
Coffee x 1 pot
Leave for work around 5am, 1 hour commute then breakfast at work normally muesli or porridge about 7 to 7.30 every week day


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## Jon George (5 Dec 2014)

Thanks for all your comments. Fifth straight morning and my body appears to have acclimatised. (Hopefully the gut will begin to recede.) Now all I have to do is to remember there's an increase in do-this-drive-every-morning-so-I'm-not-concentrating numpties about.


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## vickster (5 Dec 2014)

Cut out booze and sugar to reduce belly fat


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## jay clock (5 Dec 2014)

If you are a fit healthy cyclist then you will be fine. Personally I use myfitnesspal which is essentially calorie counting. It allows you to add back exercise but I only do that at 50%. Although if commission I would probably treat that at even less as I would juts get used to it. I am 90 kg and aim for a net 1800 cals a day when trying to lose weight.

On another note, over many years I have discovered that I can do rides of up to 2hrs with just water/zero cal tablets. Above that I might need some calories


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## Rob3rt (5 Dec 2014)

The reality is, this is a 1 hour commute, going by standard commute type riding, you would be in the minority if you COULDN'T get up and ride 1HR to work without eating. Maybe the assistant, (CX guy) misunderstood the context or applied his own circumstances to the scenario in making his comment



jay clock said:


> If you are a fit healthy cyclist then you will be fine. Personally I use myfitnesspal which is essentially calorie counting. It allows you to add back exercise but I only do that at 50%. Although if commission I would probably treat that at even less as I would juts get used to it. I am 90 kg and aim for a net 1800 cals a day when trying to lose weight.
> 
> *On another note, over many years I have discovered that I can do rides of up to 2hrs with just water/zero cal tablets. Above that I might need some calories*



That sounds about right.


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## vickster (5 Dec 2014)

2 hours cycling without cake?


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## 123456789 (5 Dec 2014)

When I first started I cycling I went out with a local group (not a racing/really fast group)
It was a 5.5 mile cycle to the club meeting point then we would do a ride for 1.5 to 2 hour (20-25 miles) eat something then go back.
I did this every week for about 4 or 5 months and one day one of my club mates asked me what I normally have for breakfast. 
My reply was I never really do breakfast I've had about two cups of coffee but I'll have my brekkie at the stopping point.
His jaw almost hit the floor and I heard things such as what do you mean how can you go that far with no food etc etc.
At the time as I just rode without giving food a second thought. Now i'm a little confused and always worry whether I had something with me


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## Pat "5mph" (6 Dec 2014)

123456789 said:


> When I first started I cycling I went out with a local group (not a racing/really fast group)
> It was a 5.5 mile cycle to the club meeting point then we would do a ride for 1.5 to 2 hour (20-25 miles) eat something then go back.
> I did this every week for about 4 or 5 months and one day one of my club mates asked me what I normally have for breakfast.
> My reply was I never really do breakfast I've had about two cups of coffee but I'll have my brekkie at the stopping point.
> ...


Seems about right to me, I don't do breakfast either, can do 25 miles on 2 cups of coffee no bother.
I go slowly, of course, spend less energy


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## Julia9054 (6 Dec 2014)

I never eat breakfast before my commute. It's all up hill (tho only half an hour) - I'd throw up if I was full of cornflakes!


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## cyberknight (6 Dec 2014)

In the end as long as your total calorie out is greater than calorie in you are going to lose weight , breakfast before or after is not a big factor assuming your training at an intensity that promotes fat burning and an hours training will be less than what you have stored in muscle glycogen which is going to be full anyway .


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## jefmcg (7 Dec 2014)

Agree with the above. I used to not have breakfast before a hourish commute, because I'm a believer in only eating when you are hungry, and I mostly had yoghurt and oatmeal midmorning and a normal lunch.

One year I lost weight using this regime, the next year I put it back on + some more. This is no miracle, it's total calories.

(obviously I was eating to many of them)


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## cyberknight (10 Dec 2014)

User said:


> no food after 9 pm as I'm usually in bed between 9:30 - 10:30 up at 4am no breakfast can't eat at that time of the morning, other than mouthwash I don't have a drink (until I get to work, some water)... leave for work at 5am for a 12 mile 35-40 minute communte, don't eat until first break which is 9am where I have a salad and a piece of fruit ....my communte times are fairly consistent, just to add that this isn't some preconceived idea, it's just how things have worked out...


When i was a milkman i started work at 2 am and had a 10 min brekkie break about 6 am


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## uclown2002 (2 Jan 2015)

I ride (2-3 hrs) fasted every day. Your body will adapt.


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## MrGrumpy (3 Jan 2015)

An hrs commute every week day morning fasted for me I do eat anything that i like but my weight is stable and I`ve slimmed. However I noticed the last two months I`ve lost a bit more weight and dropped from a 95-96 Kg plateu to 91Kg just before Christmas, the main culprit....... bread!! I stopped eating anywhere near as much not planned but had stopped and the weight seemed to drop off!


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Jan 2015)

MrGrumpy said:


> An hrs commute every week day morning fasted for me I do eat anything that i like but my weight is stable and I`ve slimmed. However I noticed the last two months I`ve lost a bit more weight and dropped from a 95-96 Kg plateu to 91Kg just before Christmas, the main culprit....... bread!! I stopped eating anywhere near as much not planned but had stopped and the weight seemed to drop off!



I did well with dropping bread, then bought my wife a bread maker for her birthday. Oh man that bread tastes good


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## subaqua (3 Jan 2015)

jack smith said:


> If you really want to drop the lbs you could always fast 1-2 days a week as i say not healthy at all but chuck in a commute to work and your working off fat alone takes dedication not to eat mind its hard work



why is fasting 1-2 days a week not healthy ? Horizon did a cracking programme about fasting 
View: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms
and the benefits of doing it with healthy eating.

i fell off the fasting wagon February last year and sadly my BP and cholesterol have risen ( and the weight) . my GP was happy with the results and couldn't find anything wrong.

At the point i was fasting properly i was fasting Monday and wednesday and commuting 10 miles each way.


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## Mo1959 (3 Jan 2015)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I did well with dropping bread, then bought my wife a bread maker for her birthday. Oh man that bread tastes good


My name is Mo and I am a breadaholic 

Seriously, it is the one thing I really couldn't do without. Love the stuff. Favourite is the Burgen Soya & Linseed one at the moment.


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Jan 2015)

Mo1959 said:


> My name is Mo and I am a breadaholic
> 
> Seriously, it is the one thing I really couldn't do without. Love the stuff. Favourite is the Burgen Soya & Linseed one at the moment.



Waking up in the morning to the smell of fresh bread is amazing!


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## jack smith (3 Jan 2015)

subaqua said:


> why is fasting 1-2 days a week not healthy ? Horizon did a cracking programme about fasting
> View: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms
> and the benefits of doing it with healthy eating.
> 
> ...



What i mena is exercising when you havent eating isnt good for you if you oush yourself to hard just from my experience i was running 3-4 times a day while not eating and i felt terrible but the weight was dropping off at a few kilo a day i was 98 kilo and had to get to 84 for my army medical and i managed it in under a couple of weeks but by the time i got to the medical place and passed on my weight i was far too unhealthy to do anything active. But then again i wa salso running in a sauna suit and dehydrating myself.


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## subaqua (4 Jan 2015)

jack smith said:


> What i mena is exercising when you havent eating isnt good for you if you oush yourself to hard just from my experience i was running 3-4 times a day while not eating and i felt terrible but the weight was dropping off at a few kilo a day i was 98 kilo and had to get to 84 for my army medical and i managed it in under a couple of weeks but by the time i got to the medical place and passed on my weight i was far too unhealthy to do anything active. But then again i wa salso running in a sauna suit and dehydrating myself.


and there you go.you were doing it far too quickly for it to be healthy. good luck with the kidney stones later in life from the dehydration.  my brother is going through the pain of these being expelled at the moment


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## jack smith (4 Jan 2015)

Im sorted now im fatter than ever before


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## Travs (7 Jan 2015)

I've been taking advantage of the Wattbike at the gym for weekday training etc while the days are darker. I was under the impression that higher intensity, more calories burned was the best thing and that the Fat-burning zone was a bit of a myth.
The most important, and logical thing I read was that your body needs oxygen to metabolise fat and therefore at higher HR zones the fat-burning ability drops off as the ability to fuel muscles with sufficient oxygen reduces.
In 4 months of hitting the training hard for 2 hour sessions, since maintaining my HR at 85% max (with the odd sprint as a semi-HIIT and just getting fed up), the weightloss has greatly improved.
I've read both on here and elsewhere that the additional time able to be spent at a lower intensity also results in net higher calories burnt. To be honest, after a couple of hours of Z4 I'm starting to bonk anyway.


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## Jon George (19 Jun 2018)

Typical - after reading (a more recent) article on this, I decided to go out for 90 mins each morning this week (I have acquired another beer belly). I then wondered if there had been any discussion about the subject on CC ...

Wish my memory would improve.


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## jefmcg (19 Jun 2018)

Jon George said:


> Typical - after reading (a more recent) article on this, I decided to go out for 90 mins each morning this week (I have acquired another beer belly). I then wondered if there had been any discussion about the subject on CC ...
> 
> Wish my memory would improve.


Your brain is obviously starved of glucose.


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## MikeG (19 Jun 2018)

Never mind.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Jun 2018)

I have always been intrigued by fasting. This 5:2 eating pattern is interesting, but I just can’t work out how I would survive: School Run of 16km most days, a physical job, turbo training 3 times a week and often an Audax over the weekend. 

I can’t get the calorific workings to balance.


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## ColinJ (19 Jun 2018)

Jon George said:


> Typical - after reading (a more recent) article on this, I decided to go out for 90 mins each morning this week (I have acquired another beer belly). I then wondered if there had been any discussion about the subject on CC ...
> 
> Wish my memory would improve.


Ha ha!

I just made one of my now very infrequent visits to BikeRadar. I haven't posted there for years but I found an interesting-looking thread which I read every page of and discovered that ... I had made the final post in it. I had no recollection of seeing the discussion before!



Heltor Chasca said:


> I have always been intrigued by fasting. This 5:2 eating pattern is interesting, but I just can’t work out how I would survive: School Run of 16km most days, a physical job, turbo training 3 times a week and often an Audax over the weekend.
> 
> I can’t get the calorific workings to balance.


I'm okay as long as I don't cycle more than about 40 km on a fasting day, space the fasting days out with at least 2 days between fasts, and don't fast the day before a long ride or the day after one.


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## Skibird (20 Jun 2018)

I cannot miss a single meal as I feel physically sick (breakfast, lunch or dinner), but always walk my dog for over an hour before I have my breakfast (which is prob a couple of hours after getting up). I don't recall the exact science behind it, but I know if you can, you should do your exercise in the morning before you eat, so that you are burning fat and not just using up the food you have eaten. *This is only if you want to lose weight*, it doesn't really matter when you exercise/cycle if you are happy with your weight and are doing it purely for the enjoyment etc


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## mgs315 (28 Jun 2018)

Considering my current commute involves an hour ride before breakfast (out the house at 5.30 and I like my sleep) and I’ve had no ill effects I’d say crack on with it as long as you feel ok.


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## Milkfloat (28 Jun 2018)

My main benefit for breakfast at work after a commute/gym is that I don't pay for the milk


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## Heltor Chasca (28 Jun 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> My main benefit for breakfast at work after a commute/gym is that I don't pay for the milk



Considering mineral water is more expensive than milk, I’m sure your boss won’t resent you for siphoning off the cow-juice budget.


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## derrick (28 Jun 2018)

Most of my Saturday rides are fasted. Reguler 50 miles. Do a few shorter ones in the week every now and then.


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## Heltor Chasca (28 Jun 2018)

A mate went for a 20km fasted trail run this morning. And then got lost and ran another 30% in distance. When I bumped into him on the school run bikeride, he was snacking on a small dog he had captured on the Greenway. He looked in a bad way. My friend did.


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## Alan O (28 Jun 2018)

I'm another who really doesn't like eating breakfast before a ride. I don't commute these days, but when I did it was about an hour, and I never had breakfast first. And these days I'll often go for a ride or a morning session at the gym without food first.

I'm just not hungry first thing in the morning, and forcing food down makes me feel bloated - and if I do eat before a short ride or a gym session, it makes me feel worse rather than better.

On longer rides I have been eating before setting out, but recently I've stopped doing that and I have something to eat after the first hour or so. In fact, my longer rides tend to be with other people and typically involve an hour or so's ride to get to the start. After I get there and while waiting for others seems like the perfect time for me to eat something.


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## Freelanderuk (29 Jun 2018)

I have been loosing weight since October ( start weight 135.5kg today's weight 89.5) , I try and ride 20 plus miles every other morning with no breakfast , I tend to only eat between 11am and 7pm , on the longer rides 30 miles plus i will have a protein shake when I return from my ride


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## Jon George (1 Jul 2018)

As I've mentioned earlier, I only accidentally re-triggered this thread when I was looking for information I'd asked about some years ago. 
Well, this morning I did over two hours before breakfast (and nabbed a 50km challenge point!) and am still feeling pretty good. 

There may be beer, this afternoon, however ...


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2018)

Fasted riding is just what most cycle commuters do on their morning commute is it not? No biggie or anything new.


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## harrison_888 (18 Jul 2018)

I've seen a nutritionist recently who is an advocate of fasted cardio - hugely beneficial for weight loss. It's what all top athletes do even if you don't hear about it (it's not the sexiest of training).

Since starting a feasting/fasting regime I'll train fasted most mornings (1-2 x HIIT, 1-2 x strength, 1 x long ride, 1 x TT ride per week. ) eat a substantial lunch and dinner and snack a maximum of once a day. This is working well and it's amazing how long I can go without feeling particularly "starved".

I think it just goes to show the research regarding number of meals, timing of carbs/proteins, frequency etc is inconsistent and in fact, eating less and training more is the _only_ fool proof way of shifting the pounds.


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## Jon George (19 Jul 2018)

I'm fascinated to what has been happening to me. This morning I did my usual route of 23.5 miles at an average of 17.5 mph - which is a PB for the last year. My bathroom scales tell me I've shed a lot of weight and I'm down two notches on my belt.


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## Alan O (19 Jul 2018)

harrison_888 said:


> ...eating less and training more is the _only_ fool proof way of shifting the pounds.


Calories out minus calories in - strange the way it always comes back to the simple laws of physics.


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## MrGrumpy (19 Jul 2018)

Alan O said:


> Calories out minus calories in - strange the way it always comes back to the simple laws of physics.


Its that simple yet, I seem to struggle to shift pounds these days......... Fasted commutes are the normal for me. My body maybe used to it now, so I shock treatment required. I think I probably need to stay of the beer and wine


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## Tin Pot (19 Jul 2018)

Jon George said:


> In an effort to remove about a stone of beer belly acquired over the summer, I have embarked on a daily (week days) fasted ride of just over an hour before my regular breakfast. I popped into my LBS today and the subject came up. The assistant (a keen CX competitor) seemed horrified and recommended limiting these to a maximum of three a week. The original magazine article on cycling fitness which prompted me to try this approach didn't mention anything about restricting the number and I can't find any reputable internet articles to confirm or repudiate. Opinions would be gratefully received.



It’s only an hour. I used to do two hour fasted rides before breakfast in freezing winter rain and wind.

Some people seem to think we’re made of glass or something.

Do as you feel fit for, but be wary of missing breakfast altogether which is not what fasted rides are about.


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## Tin Pot (19 Jul 2018)

MrGrumpy said:


> Its that simple yet, I seem to struggle to shift pounds these days......... Fasted commutes are the normal for me. My body maybe used to it now, so I shock treatment required. I think I probably need to stay of the beer and wine



Because it’s _not_ that simple. Calories in/out is from the Dark Ages of physiology.


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## Tin Pot (19 Jul 2018)

harrison_888 said:


> ...in fact, eating less and training more is the _only_ fool proof way of shifting the pounds.



Which just goes to show that your nutritionist has taught you nothing that has been learned in the last hundred years.

Eating less/better is the way to lose “the pounds”.

Eating less is NOT the way to train more.


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## Alan O (19 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Because it’s _not_ that simple. Calories in/out is from the Dark Ages of physiology.


Nope, it's simply physics. Actually achieving it is hard, yes, but the conservation of mass/energy makes it an unbreakable rule.

In fact, if you can provide a properly measured experiment that shows you can lose body energy stores (ie fat) by eating more calories than you burn (or fail to lose body energy stores while burning more calories than you eat), there could be a Nobel prize in it for you.


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## Alan O (19 Jul 2018)

MrGrumpy said:


> Its that simple yet, I seem to struggle to shift pounds these days......... Fasted commutes are the normal for me. My body maybe used to it now, so I shock treatment required. I think I probably need to stay of the beer and wine


Yes, while the _calories in minus calories out_ rule is simple, achieving it can be very hard - the psychology of weight loss is far more complicated than the physics.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Jul 2018)

I like what one of the TrainerRoad coaches said (loosely): ‘Grams Lost on the bike don’t equate to the pounds lost in the kitchen.’ What he was getting at was that if we eat better, the bigger our gains (lost fat). Just training like mad isn’t going to shed the fat as quick as eating well.

I have tried one of their snippets of advice: Ditch the evening snacking and rather go to bed peckish. You’ll soon be asleep and won’t notice. You also get used to the ‘torture’.

I am slowly bankrupting Walkers and Magnum.


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## Alan O (19 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I like what one of the TrainerRoad coaches said (loosely): ‘Grams Lost on the bike don’t equate to the pounds lost in the kitchen.’ What he was getting at was that if we eat better, the bigger our gains (lost fat). Just training like mad isn’t going to shed the fat as quick as eating well.


Absolutely, yes. Every time you hear someone claim they're eating less than they burn but still not losing weight, they're being dishonest (usually with themselves).


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Because it’s _not_ that simple. Calories in/out is from the Dark Ages of physiology.


I think it worked in the Dark Ages too. 

Nutritionists often break weight loss down to the 3 T's (total, type and timing).
The studies for timing of nutrient intake is wildly inconsistent and only often applicable to serious athletes.
Type of food is important (whole and unprocessed would be a good start)
But the research which is consistently validated and uses simple physics is Total - if you eat less than you burn you'll lose weight.


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I like what one of the TrainerRoad coaches said (loosely): ‘Grams Lost on the bike don’t equate to the pounds lost in the kitchen.’ What he was getting at was that if we eat better, the bigger our gains (lost fat). Just training like mad isn’t going to shed the fat as quick as eating well.
> 
> I have tried one of their snippets of advice: Ditch the evening snacking and rather go to bed peckish. You’ll soon be asleep and won’t notice. You also get used to the ‘torture’.
> 
> I am slowly bankrupting Walkers and Magnum.


Spot on!


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## Alan O (19 Jul 2018)

Just as an aside, the whole weight-loss business is worth billions every year, and that has led to an abundance of fashions and fads over the years from people trying to _sell_ us things (and _sell_ is the key). If you look at the ads from this year, from last year, and from 5 to 10 years ago, you'll find fashions changing faster than skirt lengths. And that does not reflect any changes in the laws of physics.


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

Alan O said:


> Just as an aside, the whole weight-loss business is worth billions every year, and that has led to an abundance of fashions and fads over the years from people trying to _sell_ us things (and _sell_ is the key). If you look at the ads from this year, from last year, and from 5 to 10 years ago, you'll find fashions changing faster than skirt lengths. And that does not reflect any changes in the laws of physics.


Absolutely - whichever approach is going to generate the most revenue will be marketed as the latest sensation.

It's often coupled with the words "...studies have shown..." which really gets my goat. It loses all meaning when the study is not cited or is not credible. Companies also cherry pick the parts of the study which fit their agenda and ignore any caveats. This is all assuming there was even a study in the first place. Very dishonest.

Eating less and exercising more is not a popular method with weight loss companies because it's simply the most effective and the least profitable - ironic really.


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

jack smith said:


> What i mena is exercising when you havent eating isnt good for you if you oush yourself to hard just from my experience i was running 3-4 times a day while not eating and i felt terrible but the weight was dropping off at a few kilo a day i was 98 kilo and had to get to 84 for my army medical and i managed it in under a couple of weeks but by the time i got to the medical place and passed on my weight i was far too unhealthy to do anything active. But then again i wa salso running in a sauna suit and dehydrating myself.


I read this all in 1 breath. 
Full stops and commas can become your friends.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Jul 2018)

harrison_888 said:


> I read this all in 1 breath.
> Full stops and commas can become your friends.



Work on your breathing. Actively exhale and the inhale will take care of itself. Vacuums. It’s all about vacuums


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Which just goes to show that your nutritionist has taught you nothing that has been learned in the last hundred years.
> 
> Eating less/better is the way to lose “the pounds”.
> 
> Eating less is NOT the way to train more.


I'll let the nutritionist know - he'll be very upset.

I concede I didn't explain that last bit in the right way. I meant calories in needs to be less than calories burned to lose "the pounds".

Irrefutable


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## harrison_888 (19 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Work on your breathing. Actively exhale and the inhale will take care of itself. Vacuums. It’s all about vacuums


I'm a simple man - without grammatically instructed pauses I will eventually pass out.


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## Tin Pot (19 Jul 2018)

If ignorance is bliss, then carry on calorie counting.


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## Alan O (20 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> If ignorance is bliss, then carry on calorie counting.


Well, if you can explain how a body can have an energy input that is greater than its energy output and yet still see its total energy reduce... well, I'm sure we'd all love to hear how to overturn the first law of thermodynamics.


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## Blue Hills (28 Jul 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> If ignorance is bliss, then carry on calorie counting.


Worked for me using myfitnesspal.


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## Alan O (28 Jul 2018)

Alan O said:


> Well, if you can explain how a body can have an energy input that is greater than its energy output and yet still see its total energy reduce... well, I'm sure we'd all love to hear how to overturn the first law of thermodynamics.


Just to expand on that a little. It's not _counting_ the calories that's the issue here, and that approach to weight loss can be very hard for a lot of people - it's working for me, but many find it a hard approach. And yes, there are various other strategies that do not involve actually counting calories.

But every successful weight loss strategy will always do it by achieving the exact same bottom line - calories in less than calories out.


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## Freelanderuk (28 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Worked for me using myfitnesspal.



And me, nearly 8 stone lost now in 10 months


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## mustang1 (28 Jul 2018)

4F said:


> Mon to Fri I go to the gym for 45 minutes and then cycle an hour to work. Been doing it now for 4 years with no side effects and only eat when I get into work.


So you probably do about 15 minutes of exercise at the gym and 30 minutes of actual cycling. 
When I used to visit the gym, it was for 2 hours with about 15 minutes exercise, so you're still doing far better than me. I just went there to socialize.


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2018)

Does anyone who subscribes to the "it's simple, calories out minus calories in" mantra want to take a stab at explaining how the calorific content of a food item is measured? Or, indeed, explain how they know their "calories out" figure either?


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## Julia9054 (28 Jul 2018)

Dan B said:


> Does anyone who subscribes to the "it's simple, calories out minus calories in" mantra want to take a stab at explaining how the calorific content of a food item is measured? Or, indeed, explain how they know their "calories out" figure either?


They work out the amount of protein, carbohydrate and fat in a food and use the average values of 4 Kcal/g for protein, 4 Kcal/g for carbohydrate, and 9 Kcal/g for fat. Alcohol is calculated at 7 Kcal/g. These figures were originally calculated by burning in a bomb calorimeter


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## Jon George (28 Jul 2018)

Just to throw a little more spice into the discussion ... a few months ago I watched an interview with a dietitian who had made the study/observation that the best way to gauge if a person would weigh more in five years' time was to ask if they were currently on a diet. 

(Nearly up to a stone lost in weight in six weeks just by cycling before breakfast and cutting back on bread and potatoes. Still drinking the same quantity of beer however. )


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2018)

Julia9054 said:


> They work out the amount of protein, carbohydrate and fat in a food and use the average values of 4 Kcal/g for protein, 4 Kcal/g for carbohydrate, and 9 Kcal/g for fat. Alcohol is calculated at 7 Kcal/g. These figures were originally calculated by burning in a bomb calorimeter


Well, yeah. I don't know about you but I derive energy from my food by a fairly complex process that involves masticating it then treating it with stomach acids and a finely balanced ecosystem of gut flora, not by settting fire to it in a steel thermos flask, and I can't help but wonder if that might have an effect on the answers.

I bet it gets a higher calorific value for grass than I would experience, for but one example


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## Julia9054 (29 Jul 2018)

Dan B said:


> Well, yeah. I don't know about you but I derive energy from my food by a fairly complex process that involves masticating it then treating it with stomach acids and a finely balanced ecosystem of gut flora, not by settting fire to it in a steel thermos flask, and I can't help but wonder if that might have an effect on the answers.
> 
> I bet it gets a higher calorific value for grass than I would experience, for but one example


I should have added that they subtract the calories in the carbohydrate found in fibre before coming up with the overall figure.
The calorific content of your food will not exactly equal the amount of energy you derive from it but it acts as a reasonably accurate ready reckoner.
(After digestion, you derive energy from your food by the process of respiration.)


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## Alan O (29 Jul 2018)

Dan B said:


> Well, yeah. I don't know about you but I derive energy from my food by a fairly complex process that involves masticating it then treating it with stomach acids and a finely balanced ecosystem of gut flora, not by settting fire to it in a steel thermos flask, and I can't help but wonder if that might have an effect on the answers.
> 
> I bet it gets a higher calorific value for grass than I would experience, for but one example


Yeah, I've wondered about that too. I even vaguely remember seeing a demo done when I was at school, with the thing immersed in a water bath with the test substance (can't remember what it was, but it wasn't food) ignited by an electric element. You were supposed to work out the energy released by checking the change in temperature of the water - but like so many school science experiments, the result wasn't close to what was expected!

Anyway, yes, I'm rambling... It always seemed silly to me to assume that the burnable calorific value of a food item was supposed to be the same as the bioavailable calorific value through digestion/respiration. You suggest grass, I wondered about wood and coal. And paraffin - if you burn some paraffin you get a lot of energy out, but if you drink the same amount you just get diarrhea 

But I suppose, as Julia9054 says, if they can allow for indigestible fibres and mostly test relatively refined and easily digestible materials, they can presumably get measurements that are close enough to be useful.


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## Spoons47 (6 Aug 2018)

Hello all, just wanted to add my two penneth in case it inspires anybody, it certainly did with my friends and family. I do the low carb diet and went from 14st 8 to 10st 12 in about 4 months. I was taught that sugar is the enemy, which indeed it is but it’s wealth is among the biggest. I still have a few beers and glass of wine and maybe one portion of rice or potatoes a week. To go back to the point of the post even though I’m a newbie I’m already feeling the benefit of fasted rides not just keeping the pounds off but good toning. 
Onwards and upwards.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Aug 2018)

When you say sugar is the enemy do you also cut down the amount of natural sugars ,such as fruit ? I/we eat a lot of fruit.


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## Spoons47 (6 Aug 2018)

On the first three months of diet I stayed away from fruit, but gradually reintroduced it after the main bulk of weight was lost.


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## 4F (25 Aug 2018)

MrGrumpy said:


> When you say sugar is the enemy do you also cut down the amount of natural sugars ,such as fruit ? I/we eat a lot of fruit.


I do because at the end of the day sugar is sugar, vegetables are your friend


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## Crankarm (28 Aug 2018)

Jon George said:


> Just to throw a little more spice into the discussion ... a few months ago I watched an interview with a dietitian who had made the study/observation that the best way to gauge if a person would weigh more in five years' time was to ask if they were currently on a diet.
> 
> (Nearly up to a stone lost in weight in six weeks just by cycling before breakfast and cutting back on bread and potatoes.* Still drinking the same quantity of beer however.* )



And there in lies the reason for your excess weight. Cut out the booze.


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## Crankarm (28 Aug 2018)

Spoons47 said:


> On the first three months of diet I stayed away from fruit, but gradually reintroduced it after the *main bulk of weight was lost*.



How much main bulk of weight?


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## Spoons47 (28 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> How much main bulk of weight?



3 and a half stone.


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## Crankarm (29 Aug 2018)

Wow.


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## Spoons47 (29 Aug 2018)

Yeah I know I was shocked too. But I’m still very proud of what I achieved, especially the fact I am keeping it off


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