# Cross Country Voyagers - Bikes



## domd1979 (19 Dec 2008)

Anyone who's interested in layout of Cross Country's refurbished Voyager units (first one's just entered traffic), there's an article on them on P6 of latest Rail magazine, available at WHSmiths reading libraries everywhere...


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## Bollo (20 Dec 2008)

Interested is too polite a word, as these are Mrs Dr Bollo's regular commute and are my 'bail out' train if SWT are having an off day. 

Can't find any pictures on the interbob, but I understand the bike spaces will be reduced to 2 and the buffet is being replaced by a trolley. The CTC had a campaign going, which <sarcasm>looks like its been a roaring success</sarcasm>.

Its not much fun for those without a bike either, as Mrs Dr Bollo regularly gets to stand most of the way for her £340 a month season ticket. The biggest issue recently has been the trains regularly being shortened from 5 carriages to 4. Perhaps that might be a factor in the overcrowding? Reliability and Punctuality are also pretty shocking and they're having some of the highest fare increases in the new year. 

(Post tails off into ranting and grumbling........)


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## jonesy (21 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> Anyone who's interested in layout of Cross Country's refurbished Voyager units (first one's just entered traffic), there's an article on them on P6 of latest Rail magazine, available at WHSmiths reading libraries everywhere...



Hmmm. Do you think they'll actually complete this "refurbishment" programme? I suspect the complaints will starting coming in fairly quickly. For presumably a lot of money spent on the conversion we get relatively few extra seat, fewer bike spaces and no buffet on trains used for some of the longest journeys in the country. Will a trolley really be a satisfactory substitute, even when crowding doesn't prevent it from travelling down the train? I'm not convinced passengers will notice the additional luggage space if it means leaving baggage unattended in a different carriage, especially when Voyagers get so crowded it is physically difficult to move around with lots of bags. 

There seems to be no getting round the fact that they are using a badly designed train that is too small for its intended purpose; and unless the DfT is hoping that rip-off 11% fare increases and a recession will stifle demand sufficiently, something will have to be done about it eventually. I believe some 5 coach Voyagers are being used for the Birmingham to Glasgow route? A fast diesel train being used on a completely electrified route, when extra capacity is needed elsewhere! Crap micro-management of the railways by DfT.


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## Soltydog (22 Dec 2008)

I noticed an old 125 back on the cross country at the weekend, in new cross country livery. If you are using their service you may be lucky enough to get this, unless they have changed the layout on that too, there will be more bike space


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## Bollo (22 Dec 2008)

Soltydog said:


> I noticed an old 125 back on the cross country at the weekend, in new cross country livery. If you are using their service you may be lucky enough to get this, unless they have changed the layout on that too, there will be more bike space



What next!


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## domd1979 (22 Dec 2008)

They're on Plymouth to Newcastle services. Apparently they've proved popular with passengers. Couldn't be because they're an infinitely more sensible than using a Voyager on a long distance service....




Soltydog said:


> I noticed an old 125 back on the cross country at the weekend, in new cross country livery. If you are using their service you may be lucky enough to get this, unless they have changed the layout on that too, there will be more bike space


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## Bollo (22 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> They're on Plymouth to Newcastle services. Apparently they've proved popular with passengers. Couldn't be because they're an infinitely more sensible than using a Voyager on a long distance service....


That's what's frightening - we can't come up with a better train than admittedly upgraded 1970s technology.


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## domd1979 (22 Dec 2008)

Yep. Voyagers and all similar units are just not suited for long distance travel. Sticking an engine under the floor doesn't do much for the passenger's experience - particularly in terms of noise/vibration. Added to that the bodies are profiled to allow for tilting (now disabled on tilting Voyagers...) which further restricts the space inside. Voyager seating is cheap and nasty with the seats being smaller and having less cushion than those generally used on the HST. 

I think the only people who've managed to junk HSTs are Worst Great Western who've refurbished them with not very many table seats and put such stark lighting in you need sun glasses to travel in them.




Bollo said:


> That's what's frightening - we can't come up with a better train than admittedly upgraded 1970s technology.


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## jonesy (22 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> Yep. Voyagers and all similar units are just not suited for long distance travel. Sticking an engine under the floor doesn't do much for the passenger's experience - particularly in terms of noise/vibration. Added to that the bodies are profiled to allow for tilting (now disabled on tilting Voyagers...) which further restricts the space inside. Voyager seating is cheap and nasty with the seats being smaller and having less cushion than those generally used on the HST.
> 
> I think the only people who've managed to junk HSTs are Worst Great Western who've refurbished them with not very many table seats and put such stark lighting in you need sun glasses to travel in them.



I don't find the noise or vibration a particular problem- the sound-proofing is good. The main problem with them is their ridiculous interior layout that makes very inefficient use of their already limited space. e.g three wheelchair accessible toilets when one would have been fine; the amount of space taken up in the vestibule area; the layout of the buffet/shop and inability to fit new windows reducing future flexibility; the overhead luggage racks that are too cramped to take normal size bags, requiring additional luggage space in the seating area. Bearing in mind that Virgin were targeting the leisure market, how on earth did they end up with such an unsuitable design? For all its faults the Adenlante is far more comfortable as an inter city DMU.


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## Bollo (22 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> Yep. Voyagers and all similar units are just not suited for long distance travel. ....



I thought they'd sorted that by........not using them for long distance travel! I used to be able to catch the Bournmouth-Aberdeen train. Now it seems I can only get as far as Manchester. Sooner or later they'll be terminating at New Street.


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## jonesy (22 Dec 2008)

Bollo said:


> I thought they'd sorted that by........not using them for long distance travel! I used to be able to catch the Bournmouth-Aberdeen train. Now it seems I can only get as far as Manchester. Sooner or later they'll be terminating at New Street.



That's because, in their wisdom, the DafT have decreed that we can't have south coast to Scotland trains any more; you have to change at New St onto a, er, Voyager... running all the way to Glasgow on an electrified line...


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## Bollo (22 Dec 2008)

jonesy said:


> I don't find the noise or vibration a particular problem- the sound-proofing is good. The main problem with them is their ridiculous interior layout that makes very inefficient use of their already limited space. e.g three wheelchair accessible toilets when one would have been fine; the amount of space taken up in the vestibule area; the layout of the buffet/shop and inability to fit new windows reducing future flexibility; the overhead luggage racks that are too cramped to take normal size bags, requiring additional luggage space in the seating area. Bearing in mind that Virgin were targeting the leisure market, how on earth did they end up with such an unsuitable design? For all its faults the Adenlante is far more comfortable as an inter city DMU.


They're current layout isn't great but, like you, I've not found vibration to be a big problem. Of all the trains I catch over the Paris-Roubaix of points that exist just south of Basingstoke, the Voyagers handle it the best. The key issue is just the shear lack of carriages - they almost look like a Hornby set when they pull in, especially when they're running only 4.


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## domd1979 (23 Dec 2008)

And all this interchange is being forced when New St is going to be redeveloped....

DfT and CrossCountry allege that people will change at places like Wolves and Cheltenham instead. Er.



jonesy said:


> That's because, in their wisdom, the DafT have decreed that we can't have south coast to Scotland trains any more; you have to change at New St onto a, er, Voyager... running all the way to Glasgow on an electrified line...


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## domd1979 (23 Dec 2008)

> Yup. It's only the shell that remains the same. And they're not the original 125 coaches.



They're built from Mk3 stock, so are virtually the same. Power cars have been re-engined on virtually all HSTs now (think the only originals remaining are in Network Rail's measurement train).



> The biggest problem with the Voyagers is that, despite claims that they've sorted the toilets out, they still stink.



Yep. Some are quite horrible.


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## jonesy (23 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> And all this interchange is being forced when New St is going to be redeveloped....
> 
> DfT and CrossCountry allege that people will change at places like Wolves and Cheltenham instead. Er.



Do you know what the DfT's reason was for ending XC services to Glasgow? The same type of trains are still being used on the same route, but with the afforementioned annoyance and delay of a change at Brum. What is achieved by this?


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## Bollo (23 Dec 2008)

> Yup. It's only the shell that remains the same. And they're not the original 125 coaches.
> 
> The biggest problem with the Voyagers is that, despite claims that they've sorted the toilets out, they still stink.


Yeah, er. Sorry about that. I'd leave it until Brockenhurst if I were you.


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## domd1979 (23 Dec 2008)

The DfT alleged it would give better performance at New Street by removing conflicting moves, they also reckoned that not that many people crossed Birmingham on XC services (hmmm). They also seem to have this desire to standardise service patterns and reduce the number of operators on a given corridor (hence things like Birmingham to Notts now being XC). 

I'd also speculate that rolling stock comes into the transfer to West Coast of Glasgow services to give Virgin a load of 221s which they need for Holyhead services and so on. But DfT doesn't micro manage. Or determine who has what stock. Apparently.



jonesy said:


> Do you know what the DfT's reason was for ending XC services to Glasgow? The same type of trains are still being used on the same route, but with the afforementioned annoyance and delay of a change at Brum. What is achieved by this?


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## domd1979 (23 Dec 2008)

And filling New Street with fumes whilst idling!!!



> I know. And with them went that lovely whistling sound.


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## Danny (30 Dec 2008)

domd1979 said:


> The DfT alleged it would give better performance at New Street by removing conflicting moves, they also reckoned that not that many people crossed Birmingham on XC services (hmmm).


The elderly mother of a friend of mine came up from Bournemouth to York at Christmas. As there is no longer a direct service she had to change at Birmingham and despite booking assistance in advance to help her get from one platform to another, the staff at Birmingham said they had no record of this and refused to help her at all. This happened on both the outward and return journeys!

I gather XC and now advising elderly and disabled passengers not to avoid changing at Birmingham.


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