# Got the Sirrus BUT



## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

Well on Sat I picked up my shiney new Sirrus. I did the 7 odd mile to the station yesterday afternoon. Now I know what you mean about Halfrauds, the front light they attached came loose, it was facing front, facing back, on the way home last night on the dark country roads. It meant me holding it with one hand.
But! the bigger problem is theframe size whichis not their fault. I fear it might be a bit small. I'm 5'11'' and the frame is a 51 cm /20'' I just seem to be leaning down on the handlebars a bit. The guy in the shop were I tried a Pinnacle though I needed a 20'' thats why I ordered that size. Now can I adjust the handle bars on this bike? to bring them up a bit?
A bit pi$$ed off I have wasted a few quid on thiss but it might be ok in the end


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## Maz (1 Jul 2008)

That sounds a bit of a bugger.

I've got a Sirrus too. I'm about 5'11" as well. Mine's a 57cm frame (Large). That said, though, it depends on your leg measurement etc. How much clearance space is there between groin and toptube when you straddle the bike? Is your saddle set to the correct height? 

Maybe the bike is the right size for you but some adjustments might need to be made.

I'm not good on the subject of bike setup, but maybe someone else here can help...


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## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

The gap is about 4'' between crutch and mid top tube ( that don't sound right  )
Inside leg 31''


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## Maz (1 Jul 2008)

The Jogger said:


> The gap is about 4''


Is that with both feet flat on the floor? You're not on tiptoes or owt, are you? If so, 4" sounds OK to me.

Pedalling - you're knees should be slightly bent when your leg is at its most extended on the pedal stroke. You shouldn't be overstretching.


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## RedBike (1 Jul 2008)

> I'm 5'11'' and the frame is a 51 cm /20''



I'm afriad it sounds like you've got the wrong size. 
I would of thought you'd of needed the large


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## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

Yes feet flat on the ground, will it be much of a problem if it is 1 size down?


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## RedBike (1 Jul 2008)

I don't think we're talking of one size though

XS - 49cm 5` 0" - 5` 3" 152 - 160
*S - 51cm 5` 3" - 5` 6" 160 - 168*
M - 54cm 5` 6" - 5` 9" 168 - 175
L - 57cm 5` 9" - 6` 2" 175 - 188
XL - 61cm 6` 3" - 6` 6" 188 - 198


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## RedBike (1 Jul 2008)

If you're only got 4" clearance over the top tube, getting a bike thats 6" taller doesn't sound right either!


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## Maz (1 Jul 2008)

Did you go for a test ride on the 51cm Sirrus?


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## alecstilleyedye (1 Jul 2008)

User1314 said:


> I'm 5' 7". I have the large size! (2005 vesrion). It was bought 2nd hand. I have no clearance on the frame at all when standing flat-footed.
> 
> However, the length of the bike from my butt when I'm seated to the bottom of my heel when on the pedal at it's most southerly point is spot on. (Almost straight).
> 
> ...



my carrera is a 58cm frame, but it's fine for me even though i'm only 5'7". the only downside is that i don't have a huge amount of seatpost for lights etc.


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## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

I don't think i'll be able to return it, as i've already used it and it is the size I asked halfords to get in. I reckon, i'll just have to live with it. should be ok for the mrs, next year, and i'll get another on the scheme. from pi$$ed off to really pi$$ed off, now!


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## Maz (1 Jul 2008)

I don't mean to rub salt into the wound, but...

Fancy putting it on ebay? A bike like that could fetch a decent price - set a reserve if you like...It'd go a long way towards funding a different one...


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## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

I wish, under the scheme, the company I work for own the bike, until the end of the year, then you pay a nominal amount andd then it's yours, well mine!
I might try the halfords cycle2work helpline, they might change it But somehow I doubt it.


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## Chris James (1 Jul 2008)

How is the 51cm measured? Is it 'virtual' seat tube or actual (as I see the Sirrus has a compact / semi sloping top tube).

If the latter then it may well be the right size. 

I have a horizontal top tube road bike and am 5 ft 11.5 in, inside leg 33inches (ish - my trouser inside leg is 32") for comparison.

If you have 4 inches clearance for your nuts on a semi sloping frame then that sounds as though it might not be very small. I have about two inches nut clearance on my horizontal top tubed bike.


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## Slim (1 Jul 2008)

You can adjust the stem on the Sirrus - at least on the comp model. I'm not sure if this applies to the whole range. 

There is a shim where the stem attaches to the steerer. Loosen the bolts that attach the stem to the steerer. I think you may also need to loosen the hex bolt on top of the steerer and remove the cap (I've just had another look at mine and this seems to be needed). Once you've got access you can rotate the shim to give you another angle or turn it upside-down to give you another two choices of angle. 

When you've picked an angle you want to try, just put the stem back over the shim and tighten up the bolts. 

I think the stem originally comes set at the highest of the four possible angles. I lowered mine twice before I found the angle I was most comfortable with. 

BTW - if you're nervous about over-tightening the bolts, Ritchey do a torque key that's preset to 4 or 5 Nm that does the job well.

...and like the others, I'd question the frame sizing also. I'm 6 foot and have the large size frame. Did Halfrauds advise you on the frame to go for?? If so, you should be able to take it back. Get hold of the customer services dept at head office. 


HTH


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## Danny (1 Jul 2008)

The Jogger said:


> I wish, under the scheme, the company I work for own the bike, until the end of the year, then you pay a nominal amount andd then it's yours, well mine!
> I might try the halfords cycle2work helpline, they might change it But somehow I doubt it.


Halfords claim to be a reputable cycle supplier, so they should have made sure that you were ordering the correct size. My LBS would not take an order from me without checking that the bike would fit me. Similarly decent on-line suppliers usually ask you to provide a raft of measurements before they take your order.

So you should definitely try to change the bike. Provided you haven't damaged it you could argue that you have just gone on the equivalent of a test ride. 

Obviously you should stop using it at and once, and try and clean it up as much as possible.


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## Mortiroloboy (1 Jul 2008)

!Jeez, I hate Hellfrauds My girls, who are 12yrs and of average height are on bikes that size,FFS!! take it back, they shouldn't have even sold you a bike that size, scandalous, you should be on a 54cm at minimum and ideally the large frame. Bl**dy Hellfrauds


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## The Jogger (1 Jul 2008)

thanks for all the replies, was at work so haven't been on here. right, the 51is from the bottom of the tube to the seat tube. I picked the bike and halfords sourced it and brought it to the branch near me, idid say to the guy in the store, did he not think it was a bit small, he thought it wasn't , so maybe that could be my get out clause! I will call them in the morning. insured it today £24 on top ot the house insurance , which I thought was good.


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## John Ponting (1 Jul 2008)

The Jogger said:


> ... insured it today £24 on top ot the house insurance , which I thought was good.



it would be dreadfull if it got stolen after a couple of months !


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## Albert (2 Jul 2008)

Halfords don't seem to be that keen on exchanging goods, unlike Curry's etc.
I had a Sirrus for a short while - I had the correct size measured up by my LBS (good firm BTW), but never found a good position on it, I always felt that it was too short. I just moved on.
The Trek 7 series are a good alternative to the Sirrus in my opinion.


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## The Jogger (2 Jul 2008)

Update: Rang the dedicated cycle2work team and was told as it is a special order we had to get in for you, you will not be able to change it and there is nothing they can do, otherwise they will be stuck with the bike. So I have emailed them and want a response in writing.
I asked them was that their extent of their customer service and was told there was nothing more they could do. Nice


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## kyuss (2 Jul 2008)

As far as I'm aware you don't give up you consumer rights just for buying through cycle2work. They advised you on the size and and they got it wrong. The fact they got it special order should make no difference. That's their problem.


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## The Jogger (2 Jul 2008)

Thanks Kyuss, I'll be using this one with them.....


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## Maz (2 Jul 2008)

Like kyuss said, if you were ill-advised by their staff then it 'aint your problem. I'd stop riding the bike, clean it up and hold on to the paperwork. A visit to the shop would be in order and explain the situation to them. If they dig their heels in, I reckon you've still got every right to a replacement/refund, what with consumer rights and all that.

I would keep it sweet, no ranting or threats. See what they say.


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## RedBike (2 Jul 2008)

> right, the 51is from the bottom of the tube to the seat tube


I'm really going to confuse things now. Basically, I'm not sure that Specialized measure the Sirrus like that. 

I would of assumed Specialized would quote what they call the virtual measurement. 


You need to imagine that the cross bar instead of sloping (getting lower) as it goes to the seat tube actually runs horizontally level with the ground. The virtual measurement is taken from the bottom bracket (same as normal) to where this imaginery level cross bar joins the seat-tube. Normally about 5 /6cm further up!

This means that although the bike might actually measure 51cm, Specialized might list it as 57cm.


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## RedBike (2 Jul 2008)

This means that you could have the 'right' size but it's just a crap fit.


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## Chris James (2 Jul 2008)

That was what I wondered. 51cm 'virtual' would be, say, 45 cm actual measurement.

Given that I am 5 ft 11.5 in and have a 57cm horizontal top tube frame with about 2 inches of nut room then that would mean that someone my size (and I am similar to the OP) would have about 6 inches of clearance over the top tube not the 4 inches quoted by the OP.

It's a bit baffling. Looking at the Specialzed website their large size (which seems to be rated as 57cm on Evans) shows actual measurements of the seat tube length as being 51.5cm!!

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCGeometryPopup.jsp?spid=32215


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## Maz (2 Jul 2008)

Chris James said:


> It's a bit baffling. Looking at the Specialzed website their large size (which seems to be rated as 57cm on Evans) shows actual measurements of the seat tube length as being 51.5cm!!
> 
> http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCGeometryPopup.jsp?spid=32215


I'll take a close look at the dimensions sticker on the seatpost of my 57cm Sirrus (I'm guessing the OP has a similar sticker on his?). It's got measurements on it for seatpost-to-bottom bracket/top tube/downtube lengths. I'll check my nut clearance whilst I'm at it! I'm about 5"11.

update...i checked the bike: diagram on the sticker assumes a horizontal toptube (though in reality it slants). The 'horizontal' length is 56.5cm, with a seatpost to bb length of 57cm.


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## The Jogger (3 Jul 2008)

Hi all, I'm just in from work and the bike is locked up in shed. I'll check the dimensions tomorrow but from what I can remember ont the diagram it has the vertical measurement to the seat 51cm now the link seems to read that as a large. 
No reply from Halfords yet. They opened the email at 17:28


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## Maz (3 Jul 2008)

The Jogger said:


> Hi all, I'm just in from work and the bike is locked up in shed. I'll check the dimensions tomorrow but from what I can remember ont the diagram it has the vertical measurement to the seat 51cm now the link seems to read that as a large.
> No reply from Halfords yet. They opened the email at 17:28


I'm confused. Either I don't know how to read this table, or there's a typo in it. 

My sticker has an "L" for Large on it. I can't see any measurements in the L column of that table that equals 57cm. Where I expect to see 57cm, I see 515mm (51.5cm)


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## Maz (3 Jul 2008)

User1314 said:


> So the measurements on Maz's chart may be "actual" measurements, thus accounting for the missing cms.


You could be right. For sure, the measurements quoted on the sticker are for imaginary horizontal toptube and seatposts (appearing as dashed lines).

I think I'll take an actual tape measure and actually measure the actual tubes on my bike, actually.


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## The Jogger (3 Jul 2008)

on the diagram the height is 51cm used a tape, nuts about 5'' above horizontal tube , had the neighbours wondering


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## Maz (3 Jul 2008)

...and is there an L or M or S on the sticker?


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## The Jogger (3 Jul 2008)

no L or M on the sticker, will double check tomorrow but I certainly think that would have jumped out at me!


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## Disgruntled Goat (3 Jul 2008)

At 5'11" you definitely have the wrong size. Get it swapped pronto.


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## Chris James (3 Jul 2008)

Disgruntled Goat said:


> At 5'11" you definitely have the wrong size. Get it swapped pronto.




Not particularly helpful given that he doesn't appear to be 100% sure what size he actually has, and the supplier has said that they will not swap it.


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## Disgruntled Goat (3 Jul 2008)

Chris James said:


> Not particularly helpful given that he doesn't appear to be 100% sure what size he actually has, and the supplier has said that they will not swap it.




So why did Jogger say he had a 51cm frame in his first post?


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## 4F (3 Jul 2008)

Disgruntled Goat said:


> So why did Jogger say he had a 51cm frame in his first post?



Have you read all of the thread ?


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## Chris James (3 Jul 2008)

Have you read the whole thread?


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## skwerl (3 Jul 2008)

51 seat tube is a 56cm frame. I'm 5'11 and I once had a 56 Sirrus-perfect fit for me. My current bike's a 55 so I'd say it's bang on for you (unless you're wildly disproportionate). if it was a 51 you'd have been whacking your knees off the handlebars


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## longers (3 Jul 2008)

Just seen this thread, I'm 5'11 too and I'm confident my Sirrus is a large. I took the sticker off ages ago.

Maybe you need some positioning advice from the good people on here?


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## Maz (3 Jul 2008)

Doesn't really add much value, but here's the sticker -apologies for poor quality:


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## Danny (3 Jul 2008)

I've re-read your OP and it seems clear to me that you ordered that particular size of bike on the advice of the Halford's salesman. He actually behaved negligently, and stupidly, by getting you to try a completely different bike, the Pinnacle, and then apparently taking a guess at what size Sirrus you need. He could have at least taken some basic measurements from you and consulted sizing guidance that Specialized presumably produce.

According to Adviceguide, the Citizens Advice website, you are entitled to reject goods if they are not "fit for purpose". You are entitled to try the goods first as you have done, but then must stop using them and inform the trader as soon as possible if you believe the goods are not "fit for purpose".

Because you need to promptly reject good that are not fit for purpose, I would suggest you now formally write to (not just email) Halfords explaining what has happened and saying you are exercising your right to reject the bike they have supplied you with as it is not fit for purpose (i.e. the right size).

In the meantime I think you need to take some proper advice about your legal position which I suspect is complicated by the fact you are buying through a cycle to work scheme. I believe it is actually your employer who legally owns the bike and you are just "leasing" it through the Cycle To Work scheme.

Your can get free advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureau or from Consumer Direct on 08454 040506.


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## The Jogger (3 Jul 2008)

Hi thanks for the pic of the label, I'll re-check mine in the morning. 
Dannyg, thanks for the advice and link, sorry if I mislead a bit ( not meant) I actually went to Evans and tried a bike for size which was the Pinnacle, the shop guy there told me I would need a 20" so when I ordered my bike through Halfords I thought right, 20 and checked to see it was the 51cm conversion. When I went to pick it up, thats when I said to the Halfords guy, I think it might be a bit small, that's when he got me to stand over the horizontal bar and sit on the seat. He adjusted the seat so the balls of my feet touched the ground and then he said that it would be fine.


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## Danny (4 Jul 2008)

Ah...well that makes things slightly more complicated, but does not fundamentally alter your position.

Halfords claims to be a reputable and knowledgeable bike dealer, and you should have been able to rely on their (supposed) expert knowledge to ensure that you went away with the right size bike. 

The shop guy saw you on the bike, and adjusted it, and told you it would be fine, even though the balls of your feet were touching the floor. Anyone with even the most elementary knowledge of bike sizing should have known that this actually meant the bike was way too small. 

The fact that Halfords had to put in a special order for the bike is simply not relevant. If anything the onus should have been on them to double check that they were ordering the right size for you before they placed the order.

So I think you should still think you a entitled to reject the bike on the grounds that Halfords have sold you something that is not fit for purpose.

However I wouldn't bother mentioning that you first got some sizing advice from Evans


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## Chris James (4 Jul 2008)

The Jogger said:


> He adjusted the seat so the balls of my feet touched the ground and then he said that it would be fine.



Oh dear.

This thread makes me feel glad I have never bought a bike from Halfords.


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## skwerl (4 Jul 2008)

from what I've read i don't think the bike is too small.
it's a 56cm frame. Ideal for someone who's 5'11. 
As COG says it's most likely it feels a bit different to what you're used to.
The Sirrus is pretty much a flat-barred road bike so it will put you into a position that gets you onto the bars. If you're not used to that your core muscles won't be strong enough and you'll feel as though there's a lot of weight on your hands.
You could always put a steeper stem on but remember to get one that's longer to account for the change in length brought on through change in angle


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## The Jogger (4 Jul 2008)

Right been out and had a look at the label, horizontal is 53cm vertical 51cm S just above the word specialized, which I thought S was for specialized as oppossed to small.


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## Maz (4 Jul 2008)

You've deffo got the Small frame bike there. Even the table is consistent with that (at least the 'horizontal measurement').

If you're of 'normal' proportion (I hope I'm normal!) then I think you might feel 'bunched up' with the handlebars feeling too close/underneath you (possibly?)


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## The Jogger (4 Jul 2008)

Yes, thats what really brought it to my attention. I felt it was a bit like that. I've emailed Halfords again and will contact my company to see if they can make a difference.


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