# £190 empty box from chain reaction



## fatjel (6 Dec 2017)

Ordered an XT di2 rear mech from chain reaction . 
Was very pleased when it turned up the next day via their collect + service. 
Not so pleased when the box turned out to be empty. 
Their phone was to busy to talk to me so emailed. After two days sending pics of the empty box and filling in forms they say they’ll get in touch with their courier and be in touch in 5 to 7 days .
I’ve bought from them 27 times in the last three years and spent loadsa money . I sort of expected better


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## Rooster1 (6 Dec 2017)

Yikes. Was the box damaged or in tact before you opened it?


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## vickster (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Ordered an XT di2 rear mech from chain reaction .
> Was very pleased when it turned up the next day via their collect + service.
> Not so pleased when the box turned out to be empty.
> Their phone was to busy to talk to me so emailed. After two days sending pics of the empty box and filling in forms they say they’ll get in touch with their courier and be in touch in 5 to 7 days .
> I’ve bought from them 27 times in the last three years and spent loadsa money . I sort of expected better


I'd start a claim through your credit card company, that'll spur CRC into swifter action


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## Doug. (6 Dec 2017)

Sorry to read about the "empty box.
In my experience C.R. are usually very good about such matters.


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## fatjel (6 Dec 2017)

The outer box was sealed and didn’t look tampered with but the shimano box lacked the usual plastic seal.
I paid with PayPal so should get the money back via them if all else fails


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## vickster (6 Dec 2017)

So it’s been nicked at their warehouse or never made it from Shimano


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## Smokin Joe (6 Dec 2017)

Sounds like someone at the warehouse fancied a Di2 mech.

In my youth I had a brief spell working for a toy wholesaler. Shops began complaining that the boxes that should have contained toy guns were received with nothing in them. A management sting found that one of the young lads who worked in the warehouse pick and pack team was nicking them. He was a strange bod, the guns he was taking were cheap junk and unrealistic, but he had a bit of a firearms fetish. Sort of guy you'd expect to see carrying out a mass shooting later in life.


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## night cycler (6 Dec 2017)

Fatjel-They are too busy to talk to you, and making you wait 5-7 days for a response is poor customer service. What consideration is being given to the fact that the customer may be *needing the part urgently?*

A few months ago I started using Merlin cycles. I found the staff & customer service to be truly excellent and fast shipping too.I have bought 2 small spare Shimano chain rings, a pair of schwalbe tyres and a pair of Michelin tubes. *They answer the phone straight away, and the order is placed so swiftly. *No problems whatsoever.
Merlin cycles 01772432431 Once you have tried them I don't think you will go elsewhere providing they always stock the parts you need.

Let's hope it is just a one-off issue with CRC.


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## vickster (6 Dec 2017)

night cycler said:


> A few months ago I started using Merlin cycles. I found the staff & customer service to be truly excellent and fast shipping too.I have bought 2 small spare Shimano chain rings, a pair of schwalbe tyres and a pair of Michelin tubes. *They answer the phone straight away, and the order is placed so swiftly. *No problems whatsoever.
> Merlin cycles 01772432431 Once you have tried them I don't think you will go elsewhere.


That's all very well if they have what you want at the price you want to pay


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## Sixmile (6 Dec 2017)

Doug. said:


> Sorry to read about the "empty box.
> In my experience C.R. are usually very good about such matters.


 
I have used CRC dozens of times this year. There was only one occasion where I wasn't happy with the way a particular item arrived and they were quick to rectify the issue. I prefer using their live chat to sort anything out.

Hopefully you get sorted!


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## Rooster1 (6 Dec 2017)

Serial numbers!


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## night cycler (6 Dec 2017)

vickster said:


> That's all very well if they have what you want at the price you want to pay



That is true Vick.


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## Cycleops (6 Dec 2017)

I’ve read of several of these ‘empty box’ scams recently. Sometimes they replace the goods with something of the appropriate weight. It’s either happens in the warehouse or at the courier company. The latter more likely. Just leave the matter to CRC to sort, it’s not your fault.


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## Drago (6 Dec 2017)

I'd tell them to screw their supplier - you've entered into a contract with them to supply an item, and that contract isn't discharged simply because they handed the item to the courier. That's their problem to sort out in their own time.

In the meantime, could they please send you the item you've paid for?


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## Phaeton (6 Dec 2017)

night cycler said:


> I have never dealt with chain reaction cycles but am making a note not to even try them now.


The OP states he's used them 27 times before & you completely ignore that, he has 1 issue & you strike them off your list, interesting.


Drago said:


> I'd tell them to screw their supplier - you've entered into a contract with them to supply an item, and that contract isn't discharged simply because they handed the item to the courier. That's their problem to sort out in their own time.
> In the meantime, could they please send you the item you've paid for?


So many angry people, clearly 2 people who have never made a mistake in their lives, you know what they say, the people who don't make mistakes, don't do anything.


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## fatjel (6 Dec 2017)

Make that three angry people !
Not because they made a mistake but because they are planning to leave me waiting for two weeks to see if they rectify their mistake


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## Phaeton (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Make that three angry people !


But you do have a reason, the other well, drama queen's is being polite


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## night cycler (6 Dec 2017)

You are correct to a point Phaeton, and in respect of that point I have appropriately amended my post (dissing CRC).

I still stand by my point about keeping the OP waiting 2 weeks while they sort out a problem that is nothing to do with the OP. My angst is caused by empathy for how the OP is feeling about this. Is that all in order now?


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## Phaeton (6 Dec 2017)

night cycler said:


> I still stand by my point about keeping the OP waiting 2 weeks while they sort out a problem that is nothing to do with the OP.


Agreed that wouldn't sit well with me either. The problem all these online companies have is determining who the villain is, I'm sure @fatjel is 100% genuine (otherwise he wouldn't have posted here) but how is CRC supposed to know that. I ran a large warehouse where we shipped over 20k orders a day, the problems we had with people claiming it hadn't arrived, wrong item sent, they sent back items we never sold, in the end we had to instal a very sophisticated CCTV & weigh every parcel.


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## Kbrook (6 Dec 2017)

My experience of CRC customer service is nothing but good, when they went out of their way to help me, when clearly they didn't have to when an out of warranty part failed.

Reply from Chain reaction to my email

Hi xxxxxx

It may be Friday 13th but today is your lucky day.

I have a bag of spares in the office and I'll send you a couple of these parts out today on a priority as a gesture of goodwill.

I trust this helps.

Kind regards,

Clifford

Now my favourite bike shop!


I'm sure it will get sorted out satisfactorily, it's unfortunate that it might take a few days, but as the poster above says they at least need to have chance to investigate. It would be a quick way to go out of business to simply take every customers word.


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## Banjo (6 Dec 2017)

I would refuse to wait a week 

for a reply .Their investigation is not your problem.Demand another item sent asap or a refund.

Its important to state exactly what you want.


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## Tin Pot (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Ordered an XT di2 rear mech from chain reaction .
> Was very pleased when it turned up the next day via their collect + service.
> Not so pleased when the box turned out to be empty.
> Their phone was to busy to talk to me so emailed. After two days sending pics of the empty box and filling in forms they say they’ll get in touch with their courier and be in touch in 5 to 7 days .
> I’ve bought from them 27 times in the last three years and spent loadsa money . I sort of expected better


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## Tin Pot (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Make that three angry people !
> Not because they made a mistake but because they are planning to leave me waiting for two weeks to see if they rectify their mistake


@Phaeton is right, crime does occur throughout the whole process - sadly including the customer.

In your position I would consider ordering the same part from a different supplier, inform CRC, and wait while they go through their own process toward hopefully a refund.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2017)

So we think CRC should just dole out expensive replacement kit to any customer who asks? That's a chancers charter. If it was old stock Altus maybe but XT Di12?

No one is compelled to buy online, and mail order has its occasional downsides, where a degree of patience may well pay dividends in getting the outcome you want. If you want the goods placed into your hands, guaranteed, use an LBS*


*except I was once sold a second-hand front mech as brand new in an LBS. Not only was it used it wasn't what the box said it was, and the proprietor got arsey with me when I went back and accused me of switching it.


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## Gez73 (6 Dec 2017)

http://amp.timeinc.net/cyclingweekl...k-361571?source=dam&__twitter_impression=true


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## Smokin Joe (6 Dec 2017)

The OP has been unlucky, but needs to exercise a little bit of patience. With a high value item you could hardly expect the retailer to shrug their shoulders and send a replacement return of post like it was a brake block, they do need to check when and where the goods went missing. It is annoying when you have a genuine complaint, but there are a growing number of rogue buyers out there and I have no doubt CRC have been caught many times in the past.

For instance, I'm not the only one here who gave up selling on ebay because of these type of people.


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## fatjel (6 Dec 2017)

Actually Gregory I think they should dole out replacement parts to customers who have a complaint.
If they don’t why would any one buy anything online.
A chancers charter would be if companies were allowed to take money and not supply the goods.


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## fatjel (6 Dec 2017)

I am a very patient man joe but for five days now I’ve had to ride one of my other 14 bikes.
Surely that would try the patience of a saint


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## jefmcg (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Actually Gregory I think they should dole out replacement parts to customers who have a complaint.


I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but we are just saying it reasonable for them to do some checking first. As said, the person who stole it could be you.

FWIW, I've had one order messed up by CRC. They items never arrived and weren't showing as despatched. I emailed them to cancel the order, there was some humming and hahing while they checked to see if what was happening. Finally I got my refund.

A few days later, the parcel arrived with my now free cassette and chain.


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## 400bhp (6 Dec 2017)

Observation head on.

Bit of a me me me thread this.

Observation head off.


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## Drago (6 Dec 2017)

Phaeton said:


> The OP states he's used them 27 times before & you completely ignore that, he has 1 issue & you strike them off your list, interesting.
> 
> So many angry people, clearly 2 people who have never made a mistake in their lives, you know what they say, the people who don't make mistakes, don't do anything.



Its not a mistake. Its the retailer avoiding, or at best delaying their lawful duty. Please provide the product that has been paid for - what you do about chasing couriers etc you can do in your own time. Simply expecting that to which the customer has actually paid for is hardly being angry.

Chain Recaction didn't make a mistake any more than Elvis teleported into the box with Shergar and stole its contents.


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## Tin Pot (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Actually Gregory I think they should dole out replacement parts to customers who have a complaint.
> If they don’t why would any one buy anything online.
> A chancers charter would be if companies were allowed to take money and not supply the goods.



To any complaint? What would be a chancers charter again?

Come on, be fair.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2017)

Drago said:


> Its not a mistake. Its the retailer avoiding, or at best delaying their lawful duty. Please provide the product that has been paid for - what you do about chasing couriers etc you can do in your own time. Simply expecting that to which the customer has actually paid for is hardly being angry.
> 
> Chain Recaction didn't make a mistake any more than Elvis teleported into the box with Shergar and stole its contents.


What timescales are quoted in the contract to supply that the buyer willingly entered into with CRC.

I'll wager none are quoted in the t's & c's and thus CRC have a reasonable amount of time in which to sort it out. 21 - 28 days seems fair from where I sit on the bus from Clapham.

If that doesn't suit the OP they can buy their urgently needed mech elsewhere and then when CRC come up with the goods they can return the CRC one to SEX and ask CRC for a refund as per normal returns. Else they wait...


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## Phaeton (6 Dec 2017)

Drago said:


> Its not a mistake. Its the retailer avoiding, or at best delaying their lawful duty. Please provide the product that has been paid for - what you do about chasing couriers etc you can do in your own time. Simply expecting that to which the customer has actually paid for is hardly being angry.
> 
> Chain Recaction didn't make a mistake any more than Elvis teleported into the box with Shergar and stole its contents.


You clearly have no clue, which for somebody who claims to be ex constabulary is quite worrying but explains why crime is so high if you are typical of all coppers.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Dec 2017)

fatjel said:


> Actually Gregory I think they should dole out replacement parts to customers who have a complaint.
> If they don’t why would any one buy anything online.
> A chancers charter would be if companies were allowed to take money and not supply the goods.


Allowed? It is the very basis of online transactions. Suppliers online nearly always take the money before they supply the goods. It is common practice to take money at the point of order, or point of despatch, not at the point of delivery. The goods aren't supplied until you have them.

Some suppliers don't even order your item from the wholesaler/distributor until you've paid for it. I've a musician friend frothing that he has had to wait for an amp advertised as in stock at a heavily discounted price which is actually in short lead back order. His foaming is misplaced as the outlets who have the item in stock are selling at near list.


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## xzenonuk (7 Dec 2017)

pretty bad thing to happen and i would be gutted if i got a empty box instead of a nice shiny new thingymabob to play with 

hope you get it sorted and promptly and remember you have no contract with the courier it is them that do and should be sorting out what happened while sending you another one.


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## hoopdriver (7 Dec 2017)

Phaeton said:


> The OP states he's used them 27 times before & you completely ignore that, he has 1 issue & you strike them off your list, interesting.
> 
> So many angry people, clearly 2 people who have never made a mistake in their lives, you know what they say, the people who don't make mistakes, don't do anything.


An empty box is not a "mistake"


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## bpsmith (7 Dec 2017)

The comment about why would people buy online if this was standard practice regarding missing items is very interesting.

This happens everyday. Pretty much every online retailer would follow a similar investigation. People still order online in ridiculous volume.

Similar thing happened to me with PBK. Got a refund within the 2 weeks as promised.

Annoying, but sadly it’s part of life. OP has had 1 issue in 27 orders. I would suggest that’s a decent record tbh?


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## oldwheels (7 Dec 2017)

I have always had good service from CRC but since they got mixed up with Wiggle there can be problems with orders placed with CRC coming from Wiggle. One small item which would fit in my letterbox was sent by Wiggle using Yodel. A fortnight later and some chasing of courier companies I eventually got the item. I had to do the legwork chasing couriers which did not please me since I am not good at being calm and polite with such people.
Yesterday in contrast I got a new pump from CRC which arrived by Royal Mail in two days.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Dec 2017)

You can now get empty boxes for £130 according to their just launched Christmas sale...


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## hoopdriver (7 Dec 2017)

Deal! I’m ordering two! I need some more space.


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## nickyboy (7 Dec 2017)

[QUOTE 5070440, member: 43827"]Which you promptly returned, I hope.[/QUOTE]

I think the correct approach is to contact the supplier and offer to return the product, supplied in error, at their expense. They often can't be bothered with the hassle


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## Will Spin (7 Dec 2017)

Interesting to compare CRCs response with my experience with Amazon. I ordered a fitbit tracker for wife (she asked me to do it...just so you understand). Small package delivered to our neighbour as we were out. I noticed that the package wasn't sealed and when I opened it there was the Fitbit manufacturer's box inside, complete with instruction leaflet, connection wire...but no fitbit. I was wondering how I would be dealt with by Amazon as either we or our neighbours could have received the Fitbit. I needn't have worried, went on the Amazon website, found the "problem with your order" page clicked on the option to have them contact me by phone, thinking this would take a few days but almost immediately the phone rang with a human non-recorded voice at the other end and they said they'd send another one express delivery, no further questions asked. I've also had similar service from our online grocery supplier when items are missing from the order.


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## bpsmith (7 Dec 2017)

Will Spin said:


> Interesting to compare CRCs response with my experience with Amazon. I ordered a fitbit tracker for wife (she asked me to do it...just so you understand). Small package delivered to our neighbour as we were out. I noticed that the package wasn't sealed and when I opened it there was the Fitbit manufacturer's box inside, complete with instruction leaflet, connection wire...but no fitbit. I was wondering how I would be dealt with by Amazon as either we or our neighbours could have received the Fitbit. I needn't have worried, went on the Amazon website, found the "problem with your order" page clicked on the option to have them contact me by phone, thinking this would take a few days but almost immediately the phone rang with a human non-recorded voice at the other end and they said they'd send another one express delivery, no further questions asked. I've also had similar service from our online grocery supplier when items are missing from the order.


I see your point, although how many £190 bananas do you tend to get with your groceries?


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## Crankarm (8 Dec 2017)

Is there a happy end to this story as the OP did not post yesterday?
He is covered under the Distance Selling Regulations and is entitled to an immediate refund or replacement. The issue of the disappearance of the item is the responsibility of CRC.

I have to say my recent purchases from CRC have not gone smoothly. They used to be good, well quick to dispatch anyway. They do take an age to reply to emails and whilst using live chat you are able to communicate with a CRCbot they are pretty useless. Last year I ordered some Shimano hydraulic trekking brake levers at about this time to be delivered before Christmas. What turned up was a Shimano XT rear derailleur which I didn't even order or want, and it was scratched. So I emailed them them with pictures. After a couple of days they finally replied, really apologetic their email was. They would send me some more levers, but this would not be until the New Year when they would have them back in stock. I wasn't best pleased. In the mean time they could give me a refund for they said it was clearly their error. Well of course it was! The rear XT derailleur they had sent me in error they didn't want back. Then after Christmas the correct hydraulic brake levers that I had ordered at the start of december turned up .........

And then about one month ago I ordered some winter bib cycling leggings that didn't arrive presumably went missing. They said although Royal Mail had collected them from CRC, RM could not actually establish where they were in their system despite them being sent by tracked mail, so they were written off as missing in transit. CRC sent me another pair by next day delivery signed for which I received two days later.

So sometimes it's not CRC's fault and sometimes it is. The fact that you state your delivery box does not seem to have been tampered with and is still intact suggests that the problems lie with CRC's own picking or dispatch departments not their courier, but this is not your problem. You would just like the goods you have paid for. If you don't receive any indication when you will get them soon and a refund is not forthcoming either use Paypal for a charge back for non delivery of item or approach your credit card provider to get them to make a charge back (s.75 of the Consumer Credit Act I think).


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## Buck (8 Dec 2017)

I had a similar issue as the OP when I bought my Garmin 520 - opened the box in anticipation to see the gap where the head unit should be - all the other gubbins were there.

Contacted CRC who asked for photos of the empty box (?? !! Oh well) Duly obliged and then after speaking to one of their team they then sent out a new boxed unit.

Clearly a light fingered employee taking kit from unsealed boxes in the warehouse.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Dec 2017)

Which says...

Delivery of goods
The Consumer Rights Act, which came into force on 1 October 2015, says the retailer is responsible for the condition of the goods until the goods are received by you, or by someone else you have nominated to receive them on your behalf such as a neighbour.
This means that the retailer is liable for the services provided by the couriers it employs - the delivery firm is not liable.
There is a default delivery period of 30 days during which the retailer needs to deliver the goods to you unless a longer period has been agreed.
If your delivery is later than agreed and it was essential that it was delivered on time, then you have the right to cancel the purchase and get a full refund.
If the delivery isn’t time essential but another reasonable delivery time can’t be agreed, you’re also within your right to cancel the order for a full refund.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Dec 2017)

So CRC have 30 days from point of order to deliver the goods. I suggest a recorded delivery letter stating it is up to CRC to prove the goods, nb not the packaging, were delivered so refund or supply thank you.


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## tyred (10 Dec 2017)

nickyboy said:


> I think the correct approach is to contact the supplier and offer to return the product, supplied in error, at their expense. They often can't be bothered with the hassle



I did once order some Sturmey Archer hub parts from SJS and opened the box to find....a box of dynamo tail lamp bulbs! I did contact them and email pictures of the package, the bulbs etc and offered to return them but they said not to bother and a few days later my SA parts arrived and I have enough spare bulbs for the rear light of my knockabout 3-speed to last me my life time.


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## fatjel (14 Dec 2017)

Well a replacement mech arrived today.. Which is good.
Had an email Tuesday saying my order had been dispatched.
No explanation as to what happened. 
Took eleven days from ordering until it arrived, which wouldn't usually bother me overmuch.
CRC 's communication with me tho, was really annoying.


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## bpsmith (14 Dec 2017)

Am I right in thinkng that, in your first post, you said that they were investigating and would be in touch in 5-7 working days?

Then (4 working days later) you got an email on Tuesday to say that it had been shipped, which clearly then arrived today (6 working days later)?

That’s about as good a customer service / communications example as it gets tbh!


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