# Dawes with disk brakes



## Wardy (26 May 2013)

I'm thinking of buying either the current Super Galaxy or Galaxy Plus models and I wondered if anyone had experience of these bikes and in particular, the braking. I seem to recall reading somewhere that disk brakes can cause fork judder.


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## Bodhbh (27 May 2013)

Disc brakes are completely unsuitable for any touring bike worth it's salt.

/edit /duck


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## Wardy (27 May 2013)

Bodhbh said:


> Disc brakes are completely unsuitable for any touring bike worth it's salt.
> 
> /edit /duck


 Why do you say that?


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## stephenjubb (27 May 2013)

Bodhbh said:


> Disc brakes are completely unsuitable for any touring bike worth it's salt.
> 
> /edit /duck


 

This is like the steel v aluminium debate. All the pros and cons of disk v rims can be found here

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=8174

I would think dawes would have overcome the disadvantages, but check to make sure.

I'd agree with Bodhbh however and the reason is simplicity. The simpler the bike the easier it is to repair and get spairs and thus less hassle.

Your own priorities, thoughts and tour requirement will guide you as to whether you want disks or not.

Me I like simplicity, the ability to repair myself and get spairs anywhere. Makes for less to think about on tour if there are any issues which means a better tour to allow your mind to wander to other stuff.

And it ultimately normally means a hassle free tour. No need to source complicated requirements though there are arguments about this as well that say you can take spares, get everything sent out but again not as simple as nipping into a LBS and getting a bog standard replacement.


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## stephenjubb (27 May 2013)

also have a look at these reviews

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/bike-test-disc-braked-tourers.pdf


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## Bodhbh (27 May 2013)

Wardy said:


> Why do you say that?


 
Sorry I'd had a few and was being mischievous. I have hydraulic disk brakes on my tourer. I'd probably go for cables if I was building one from scratch or heading off across Africa - however as they've never gone wrong there's not much point changing them for the sake of it. Regarding any specific problem with the brakes on the Dawes I have no idea.



stephenjubb said:


> This is like the steel v aluminium debate.


 
Just a bit


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## Wardy (27 May 2013)

Thanks guys. Having read both reviews, one wonders exactly what Dawes has done to counter the additional stress disks will place on wheel/fork. I'm probably less inclined to go down the disk path now, but having owned several drop-bar bikes over the years (my old 70's Super Gal being one), I've always been aware of the less than satisfactory braking ability of rim brakes, especially in the wet. No doubt, changing a new Super Galaxy to rim braking would be rather expensive, so it looks like I shall have to find a 2012 model!


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## stephenjubb (27 May 2013)

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2733
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2734


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## Wardy (27 May 2013)

stephenjubb said:


> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2733
> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2734


 Thanks Stephen. The Ultra is tempting!


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## Ticktockmy (27 May 2013)

Personally having used V and disk brakes for touring, my feelings are either will do the job, both have good points and bad points. but from my experience, buy the best you can afford, which means in the case of V brakes good quality rims and pads. Likewise for disk brakes buy the best you can afford, in my case when touring, I enjoy the thrill of fast downhills, and as I normally have front and rear panniers camping kit etc, brakes are important to me. So I use Hydraulic disk brakes as to me they feels more positive in action.


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## Wardy (28 May 2013)

Ticktockmy said:


> Personally having used V and disk brakes for touring, my feelings are either will do the job, both have good points and bad points. but from my experience, buy the best you can afford, which means in the case of V brakes good quality rims and pads. Likewise for disk brakes buy the best you can afford, in my case when touring, I enjoy the thrill of fast downhills, and as I normally have front and rear panniers camping kit etc, brakes are important to me. So I use Hydraulic disk brakes as to me they feels more positive in action.


 Good advice Ticktock. As I've got older I've tended to dwell more on the thought of cherry-red rims as I descend at speed so I thought disks were the way to go. I wonder what the Tour de France guys use as they certainly loose altitude far faster than I would. There again, I guess their nerve is somewhat stronger than mine so they probably spend less time braking!


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## Wardy (28 May 2013)

stephenjubb said:


> This is like the steel v aluminium debate. All the pros and cons of disk v rims can be found here
> 
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=8174
> 
> I would think dawes would have overcome the disadvantages, but check to make sure.


 
Yesterday, I emailed Dawes Cycles and asked what changes to build had taken place to counteract the stresses imposed by disk brakes. Their reply today stated "The frames and the forks on the Super and Ultra Galaxy have been specifically designed to accomodate mechanical disk brakes".
In case anyone is interested they said the weight of the 2013 Super Galaxy is 15.4 kg and the Ultra is 14.6 kg and said that their website is being updated to include "all weights of our range".


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## vernon (1 Jun 2013)

I have a bespoke Woodrup tourer and had it fitted with Shimano XT V brakes.

I was swayed by the test ride that I had on the prototype when I applied the brakes with the force that I have used with cantilever brakes and was brought to a halt far faster than I'd planned for. They are reassuringly efficient when I ride fully loaded with four panniers and my 23 stone carcase.

Don't let the 'What if disaster strikes?' scenarios cloud the issue e.g.

Aluminium vs steel
Disc vs rim
Hub vs derailleur

Buy what you can comfortably afford and make sure that you can buy your way out of trouble if disaster strikes i.e. carry a credit card.

I've bought my way out of trouble with
Two frame failures (steel frames by the way, both of the Dawes Galaxies, both at the rear drop out.) One repair in England one complete replacement bike in France.
Two wheel failures. New rear wheels: one in Scotland and one in France.

If you set off on tour to cope with all eventualities, your spares and toolkit would leave little room for clothes and camping gear.

FWIW I have yet to read about anyone inconvenienced in a major way with disc brake problems while on tour.


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## BigonaBianchi (1 Jun 2013)

I'd need convincing on disc brakes on my tourer, my experience of American bike shops on the transam was that there aren't many at all and those there are I suspect would be extremely unlikely to be able to fix/replace disc brakes while you wait, or even while you wait a few days.

I'm not sure whats wrong with simple old style brakes and bar end shifters...they work, they are simple, and if I cant fix them for any reason most bike shops can do while you wait.


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## puch (2 Jun 2013)

BigonaBianchi said:


> I'm not sure whats wrong with simple old style brakes and bar end shifters...they work, they are simple, and if I cant fix them for any reason most bike shops can do while you wait.


 
A proposition that's difficult to fault. As a newbie, I was initially impressed by discs but, further research has uncovered a surprising indifference to discs by cyclists & mechanics who know what they're talking about. I'm in for a new tourer and it will probably have V or regular cantilevers.


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## Milzy (2 Jun 2013)

Off topic but do you think they'll ever use disks in the TDF?


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## Glenn (2 Jun 2013)

Only if the UCI approve them for road racing


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## Milzy (2 Jun 2013)

Glenn said:


> Only if the UCI approve them for road racing


 
Are the same reasons for not approving them listed in the link above? It would massively change most road bikes for sale if they did change I'd have thought.


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## Milzy (2 Jun 2013)

Found this
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/will-the-uci-sanction-disc-brakes-in-the-pro-peloton


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## vernon (3 Jun 2013)

puch said:


> A proposition that's difficult to fault. As a newbie, I was initially impressed by discs but, further research has uncovered a surprising indifference to discs by cyclists & mechanics who know what they're talking about. I'm in for a new tourer and it will probably have V or regular cantilevers.


 

If you are making a choice between V brakes and cantilevers, go fo V brakes. They are far more effective than any cantilever set up that I have used over the past ten years.


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## Mad Doug Biker (3 Jun 2013)

It always seems to me that if you are doing something seriously long distance and hardcore, and if you can, fit both disk and rim brakes, with say, some suicide levers on the handlebars along with the normal brake levers. It might look a bit daft, but hey, if one set fails, you will still have another as back up, and if you are in the middle of where, nobody will be laughing at you then, will they?!

I'll get me coat.


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## Crankarm (3 Jun 2013)

Disc brakes are pretty reliable. I wouldn't bother fitting anything else. Disk brakes I have no experience of.


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## puch (4 Jun 2013)

vernon said:


> If you are making a choice between V brakes and cantilevers, go fo V brakes. They are far more effective than any cantilever set up that I have used over the past ten years.


 
Thanks for the welcome advice. Noted & filed. BTW, I assume V brakes = Linear Pull Brakes.


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## vernon (4 Jun 2013)

puch said:


> Thanks for the welcome advice. Noted & filed. BTW, I assume V brakes = Linear Pull Brakes.


 

Yep.


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## Nigeyy (5 Jun 2013)

Oh no not this old chestnut again.....

For full disclosure, my touring bike has BB7 road brakes. And yes, I do love them. However.... pretty much any good quality well setup common brake system will work (think about this, how long have people been touring?). I put discs* on my tourer as I liked the idea of not wearing the rims down, not heating rims on a descent, more predictability in the wet, modulation, etc. Truth be told though, v-brakes and cantis are fine brake systems (again, assuming good quality pads, well setup, well maintained, blah, blah, etc, etc) and each brake system has its advantages and disadvantages. FWIW, one of my favourite braking systems is a canti setup -the power and modulation is just outstanding! If I was building a touring bike again, I don't think I'd bother with discs -but I also certainly won't be taking them off my tourer anytime soon either.

If you are on a budget, I'd say save your money as disc specific hubs, possibly brake levers and the brakes themselves can easily be costly compared to more traditional rim brakes. And good rim brakes will work just fine -as many people can attest to.

*when this discussion comes up, I frequently hear the negatives of disc brakes that I find, quite frankly, to be -in my opinion -more grounded in the areas of trying to win an argument rather than reality. More complex? Yes. So are derailleurs and geared hubs -would you not use those? Reliability? I've had first hand experience of more trouble with rim brakes than discs.... Dished wheels less strong? I'm sure theoretically yes, but any good quality well built wheel -even dished for discs -should be fine. I don't see too many mtbers with disc wheels afraid of doing big jumps for fears of weakened wheels  Problem getting spares for disc brakes in Outer Mongolia? Yes, absolutely. But try to find a v-brake as well! (not to mention *most* people don't tour in really remote places.) Don't get me wrong, disc brakes do have their downsides (e.g. if you have a rear disc brake outside the seat stay you'll need a disc specific rack, there are less choices of brakes and levers for drop handlebars, less bang for the buck than their rim counterparts, less likelihood of finding spares in remote places, etc) but I do think some of the oft quoted negatives are just unrealistic and misleading in the big picture.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2013)

Interesting well balanced post - thanks. My cantis stopped me fine and sharp (the back of the bike flipped up off the road) when I had to do a sudden stop yesterday when a driver did a barmy U turn at a junction. (* NB - I'm not dissing disc brakes or any other type)

(edited for typo)


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## puch (6 Jun 2013)

@Nigeyy
Thanks. An informative useful post.



Nigeyy said:


> If I was building a touring bike again, I don't think I'd bother with discs


 
I've read many posts by touring people expressing this opinion, often.


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