# Beginner cyclist, good average speed to aim for?



## User48980 (1 Dec 2016)

Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?

I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.

Any tips?


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## mjr (1 Dec 2016)

I think 12mph alone over an hour or two is a good target because it means you can do 10mph all-day comfortably in a freewheeling, sight-seeing, touring group... but that's probably not you wanted! 

Seriously, if you want to go fast, then I suspect 28km/h alone will mean you'll be able to do 30km/h in a group if it's one that rides close formation because the aerodynamics will help you and give you another few km/h. I suspect your bigger challenges will be making sure you can keep it up for the distance over the terrain they ride and especially learning the group riding and bike handling skills needed to avoid crashing messily in such a group at that speed. Does the club offer a skills practice ride or recommend one?

And when you get to the point where you can go no faster, remember it's not the only sort of cycling


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## biggs682 (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?
> 
> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?



i ride solo and my normal average is a happy 15 - 16.5 mph on any distance up to 50 miles 

i wouldnt worry about speed worry more about being safe and enjoying your rides


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## Davos87 (1 Dec 2016)

If you go too fast it might compromise your ability to wave at other cyclists as you fly past.


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## User48980 (1 Dec 2016)

Davos87 said:


> If you go too fast it might compromise your ability to wave at other cyclists as you fly past.


Lol hahahah


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## jonny jeez (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?
> 
> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?


You'll already have noticed that many cyclists enjoy riding for reasons apart from speed. However as you have asked the question I think my tips would be frequent rides, with shorter distances at greater speed, that you cannot maintain over a longer ride and just increase the distance gradually.

Riding in a club will probably be the best way to increase speed and also range, so you are already doing the right thing for you.


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## User48980 (1 Dec 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> You'll already have noticed that many cyclists enjoy riding for reasons apart from speed. However as you have asked the question I think my tips would be frequent rides, with shorter distances at greater speed, that you cannot maintain over a longer ride and just increase the distance gradually.
> 
> Riding in a club will probably be the best way to increase speed and also range, so you are already doing the right thing for you.


Yeah, I am doing it for fitness but I also want to try doing some local competitions, and speed is key usually. I have cycled with the slower group a few times now. We did 65km, at 24kmh. then I cycled 30km extra, to the club and home.

Club cycling is really fun. I think I will be doing a lot of club cycles from now on.

I am not sure if it matters but I am 15. So maybe as I get older I will get slightly faster? with muscle development and stuff.


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## S-Express (1 Dec 2016)

Average / shmaverage - just ride your bike a lot and it will increase over time anyway. You are currently at an age where riding a lot will only make you faster, so get stuck in.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Dec 2016)

You say "want to work your way up to the faster group", which implies that there are slower ones. So join a slower one, get to know the club, the riding protocols and so forth, get to know your capabilities, and then _*you *_can set your goals to aim at both in terms of speed and distance.

A group of randoms on the internet aren't going to be able to advise on your goals. A good start might be: _A little bit further and a little bit faster than you do at the moment._

If it makes you feel better, 26 km/h is significantly faster than I ride.


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## jonny jeez (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Yeah, I am doing it for fitness but I also want to try doing some local competitions, and speed is key usually. I have cycled with the slower group a few times now. We did 65km, at 24kmh. then I cycled 30km extra, to the club and home.
> 
> Club cycling is really fun. I think I will be doing a lot of club cycles from now on.
> 
> I am not sure if it matters but I am 15. So maybe as I get older I will get slightly faster? with muscle development and stuff.


Definitely with age you will become stronger band able to get faster. As others will point out *and as I have mentioned earlier) speed isn't the only thing.

However, I don from personal experience understand that the ability to ride comfortably at a range of paces is a wonderful ability to have.

So, if it floats your boat, crack on, you are certainly at the right age to invest in your abilities now as it will bring huge benefits later in your riding life.


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## smutchin (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> Any tips?



As @S-Express says, don't get hung up on average speeds. You're already doing just fine from the sound of it.



User48980 said:


> Yeah, I am doing it for fitness but I also want to try doing some local competitions, and speed is key usually.



There's a lot more to competitive cycling than just speed. But if you are interested in competitive cycling then riding with a club is the perfect way to learn what you need to know. For example, you will learn how to ride safely in a bunch, which is hugely important. You will also learn tactics and technical riding skills - when to attack, when and how to conserve your energy etc. 



> Club cycling is really fun. I think I will be doing a lot of club cycles from now on.



Fantastic, this is great. At this stage of your cycling career, enjoying it is far more important than how fast you can go because it will give you the impetus to put in the required level of effort to improve.

Keep it up and you will probably know yourself when you're ready to join the faster group.



> I am not sure if it matters but I am 15. So maybe as I get older I will get slightly faster? with muscle development and stuff.



Definitely.


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## Kajjal (1 Dec 2016)

Average speed depends on many things. Fitness, healthy diet, well maintained / setup bike, how far you ride, how hilly it is, weather etc. 

Best to just enjoy the riding, and strava is handy for measuring progress.


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## User48980 (1 Dec 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> You say "want to work your way up to the faster group", which implies that there are slower ones. So join a slower one, get to know the club, the riding protocols and so forth, get to know your capabilities, and then _*you *_can set your goals to aim at both in terms of speed and distance.
> 
> A group of randoms on the internet aren't going to be able to advise on your goals. A good start might be: _A little bit further and a little bit faster than you do at the moment._
> 
> If it makes you feel better, 26 km/h is significantly faster than I ride.


Yeah I am in the slower group, but it feels slightly to slow for me. Yet the faster group is to fast for me. and go for longer rides at the fast pace.


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## HLaB (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?
> 
> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?


You're only 15year, 16mph sound great to me you'll certainly develop to the faster group in your own time don't rush it :-)

IIRC a young member of our club started about that speed at about the same age and a few months ago still racing in his junior gears he won a few big races and subsequently came 17th in a semi pro race, out sprinting Russell Downing


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## User48980 (1 Dec 2016)

HLaB said:


> You're only 15year, 16mph sound great to me you'll certainly develop to the faster group in your own time don't rush it :-)
> 
> IIRC a young member of our club started about that speed at about the same age and a few months ago still racing in his junior gears he won a few big races and subsequently came 17th in a semi pro race, out sprinting Russell Downing


Wow nice!


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## Grant Fondo (1 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?
> 
> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?


Stop worrying about speed and take in the views my good friend!


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## froze (2 Dec 2016)

I don't have time to read all the posts so maybe someone already mentioned this, but I would google "interval training for cyclists", that's the only way you will improve your average speed the quickest is by doing intervals.


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## dim (2 Dec 2016)

http://cyclinguphill.com/average-speeds-cycling/


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## S-Express (2 Dec 2016)

froze said:


> I don't have time to read all the posts so maybe someone already mentioned this, but I would google "interval training for cyclists", that's the only way you will improve your average speed the quickest is by doing intervals.


Perhaps if you had read the other posts you would see that the guy is a beginner. All he needs to do right now is ride.


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## Hitchington (2 Dec 2016)

I'm a 10mph average kind of guy. Means I can cover 50-70 miles a day when touring with a few cake and beer stops on the way.


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2016)

Hitchington said:


> I'm a 10mph average kind of guy. Means I can cover 50-70 miles a day when touring with a few cake and beer stops on the way.


Wandering off topic a bit ...

This brings us to the interesting question of what you mean by average. A touring or audax style average, which includes breaks and stops and is a realistic measure for planning, or a Strava style moving average which is a software boosted number designed to flatter the the rider's ego. 

Earlier this year I had an interesting 80km ride consisting of a series of flat out dashes, and head down efforts (often in the wrong direction) punctuated by phone call and navigation stops (I was trying to catch up with someone). Amusingly my Garmin awarded me a moving average of 26.5km/h, which is bizarrely high. How effective was I at actually catching up? Not very, my real overall progress was a less impressive 16.5 km/h. I did catch up, eventually, at the lunch stop. But a bit more effective use of brain, and better planning, would have seen me catch up much more quickly and efficiently, at a lower "moving" average speed.

Although real averages aren't confined to audaxers and tourists. I was advised by a gnarly club rider who I respect a lot, someone capable of remarkable feats of high speed endurance that his approach to building overall speed was to forget garmins and such like and work on your time over a set course of varied terrain. His reasoning was that compensating for delays due to other road users, rest stops and so forth were a natural part of the exercise. 

But back to the OP. As @S-Express says, just ride your bike.


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## dim (2 Dec 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Wandering off topic a bit ...
> 
> This brings us to the interesting question of what you mean by average. A touring or audax style average, which includes breaks and stops and is a realistic measure for planning, or a Strava style moving average which is a software boosted number designed to flatter the the rider's ego.
> 
> ...



depends how you set your Garmin ..... if you set it to only record when you cycle 5km/hr or faster, it gives you a higher average speed as when you stop at traffic lights or stop for a break, the average speed is not reduced/affected, as the unit pauses

If you do an Audax ride, you need to have the recording speed set to 0 as there is a minimum time/speed limit (most are 15km/hr), and when you stop, the average speed reduces constantly (and drastically)


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## Dogtrousers (2 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> depends how you set your Garmin ..... if you set it to only record when you cycle 5km/hr or faster, it gives you a higher average speed as when you stop at traffic lights or stop for a break, the average speed is not reduced/affected, as the unit pauses
> 
> If you do an Audax ride, you need to have the recording speed set to 0 as there is a minimum time/speed limit (most are 15km/hr), and when you stop, the average speed reduces constantly (and drastically)


My GPS doesn't have that option, but it does give an overall average speed (called trip average or something). Which, given the kind of riding I do, is what I check to see if I'm on schedule. Moving average is something that I look at and roll my eyes when I upload my rides afterwards.


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## S-Express (2 Dec 2016)

If you want free speed, just start tracking your rides using Strava's mobile app.


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## Banjo (2 Dec 2016)

You are doing really well already ,as you do more miles your endurance will build up and you will be able to keep up the fast pace for longer.

When your ready to try out with the fast group have a talk with the ride leader first as they may not be happy leaving a 15 year old if you get dropped.

Good Luck


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## G3CWI (2 Dec 2016)

Banjo said:


> they may not be happy leaving a 15 year old




Any responsible group would not do so surely?


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## Banjo (2 Dec 2016)

They may be able to arrange another rider willing to stay with him if necessary .Point I was making is discuss it first not on the side of the road.


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## smutchin (2 Dec 2016)

Banjo said:


> Point I was making is discuss it first not on the side of the road.



@Novantix I entirely agree with this. If the group you're riding with at the moment aren't pushing you hard enough then you won't improve (although you will still gain useful experience of group riding). But if you step up to the fast group, you do risk getting dropped...

I've ridden with fast groups who won't wait for anyone because it's their race training, which is entirely reasonable. For an older rider, this is fine because you're responsible for yourself, but it would definitely be a problem to drop a 15yo. But as @Banjo says, if you discuss it with them in advance, they will probably be happy to nominate one or two riders as guardians to look after you - after all, it's in the interests of the club to help develop young riders with potential.


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## jefmcg (2 Dec 2016)

Isn't it usually only the the _fastest_ group that doesn't have a no-drop policy? If you are stepping up to a faster group, but not the fastest, won't they generally wait?

(I've only ever done one club ride - beginners group, obviously - so apologies if I am very wrong)


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## smutchin (2 Dec 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Isn't it usually only the the _fastest_ group that doesn't have a no-drop policy? If you are stepping up to a faster group, but not the fastest, won't they generally wait?



Clarifying things like this are why it's a good idea to discuss it in advance.


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## e-rider (2 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Hello everyone I have recently got a new road bike and i joined a cycling club. So far I am able to do about 16 mph, 26kmh as my average pace. Its not very fast though, what would be a good goal to aim for in average speeds etc?
> 
> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?


there is always someone faster and always someone slower whatever speed you ride at. Set a target, such as your local cycling club fast group and aim for it - you might make it, you might not, just make sure you enjoy what you are doing and remember that it's all good exercise!


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## mjr (2 Dec 2016)

Banjo said:


> They may be able to arrange another rider willing to stay with him if necessary .Point I was making is discuss it first not on the side of the road.


Good point. Also, leaving a youngster alone with only one adult probably isn't a wise move unless they've been qualified and ideally not even then.


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## Tin Pot (2 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> I am hoping to try and work my way up to the faster group in our cycling club. They do about 30kmh.
> 
> Any tips?



Bike more.


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## User48980 (2 Dec 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Bike more.


is 7 days a week enough?


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## Tin Pot (2 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> is 7 days a week enough?



...How many hours per day are you doing, and at what intensities?


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## User48980 (2 Dec 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> ...How many hours per day are you doing, and at what intensities?


about 1 hour and 20 minutes, I would say 90% effort the whole ride. Then I have a club ride on Saturday which is 3 hours. The club does 65km, then I have to cycle to the meetup some and back so about 92km.


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## Tin Pot (2 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> about 1 hour and 20 minutes, I would say 90% effort the whole ride. Then I have a club ride on Saturday which is 2 hours 30 minutes. about 92km



I would consider changing this up for better effect. Riding the same way over and over doesn't create the conditions for your body to improve.

Whilst perceived exhertion is ok, I think you need to measure intensity in some objective way, e.g. Power or heart rate.

Then identify your goals; sprints, time trials, endurance racing, criterium, what part of cycling do you want to focus on?

Then segment out a plan combining aerobic work outs, and anaerobic efforts to achieve that goal.

For example, my goal last year was the Ironman bike leg, no sprint efforts needed, so I focussed on all aerobic rides building up distance from 40km Olympic distance to 180km over six months. I used Hill work to give me occasional anaerobic efforts, but the main focus was on cardiovascular fitness.

92km in 2:30 in quite quick, averaging over 33kph. What's different about this ride to take you up from 26kph, or have I misunderstood?


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## User48980 (2 Dec 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> I would consider changing this up for better effect. Riding the same way over and over doesn't create the conditions for your body to improve.
> 
> Whilst perceived exhertion is ok, I think you need to measure intensity in some objective way, e.g. Power or heart rate.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. 

For exertion, the other day I was at the gym and used the bike machine. For a 40 minute ride my heart rate was about 186 beats per minute average. I was using hill workout mode so it would give occasional hard spikes to climb. Which would be my maximum effort and it would be 198 bpm.

I meant to say I did 2:30 of riding with the club doing 65km. then I had to cycle there and home, so I did an extra 25km.

So would you suggest doing hill climbing and flats in a cycle? because i have about 3 hard hills for climbing in my area. I could do them and then flats, I have done that sort of ride about 3 times before.


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## Tin Pot (3 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> For exertion, the other day I was at the gym and used the bike machine. For a 40 minute ride my heart rate was about 186 beats per minute average. I was using hill workout mode so it would give occasional hard spikes to climb. Which would be my maximum effort and it would be 198 bpm.
> 
> ...



Yes, but variety day to day is what we're after. So, have a couple of days you do anaerobic , intensity work, say 

1. get to one of those hills and ride as many repetitions as is sensible
2. get to the gym, warm up, then do 3 minutes very hard, 5 mins easy, five times, warm down

Then have your 3-4 aerobic days

1. Club ride, make sure you are in a group you can stay near the front easily but not so easy you're coasting 
2. 1-3hr solo rides, stay seated and lowest gear to spin up hills

Recovery days
Usually 7 days a week training won't optimise you're improvement, the body needs to repair the muscle damage your training causes. However being only fifteen this may vary.
I think most people would recommend that you're having at least one day off, socialise, do homework, see a movie etc.


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## S-Express (3 Dec 2016)

None of the above represents anaerobic work - but it doesn't actually matter. And words like 'aerobic' and 'anaerobic' are kind of irrelevant for a beginner anyway. Ride hills, ride on the flat, as long as you are riding, you will be improving. Ride with your club over the winter and see where you are in the spring.


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## Boon 51 (5 Dec 2016)

Don't forget your bike?... Lighter wheels and tyres will help and a good bike fit as well. Saddle height etc.


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## smutchin (5 Dec 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Yes, but variety day to day is what we're after.



Tbh, I think it sounds like he has enough variety already - a few shorter rides at high intensity during the week, plus longer, easier group rides at the weekend sounds like an almost ideal training regime, especially for a young rider who's still fairly new to it. There's a danger of over-thinking it and making it more complicated than it needs to be.


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## Racing roadkill (6 Dec 2016)

45 Km/h, or your never going to be able to keep up with the faux pro's. But seriously, if you can maintain 28-30 Km/h on the flat, that will be what most people would call a decent cruising speed.


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## Ben Reeve (10 Dec 2016)

Saw this the other day, might be a useful guide!


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## Racing roadkill (10 Dec 2016)

Ben Reeve said:


> View attachment 153937
> 
> Saw this the other day, might be a useful guide!


Those are 'average' speeds. Average speeds include a multitude of evils, speeding up, slowing down, getting pinned in traffic, etc. etc. etc. A lot of people 'trim' their Strava plots to deliberately remove any warm up / warm down bits, and deliberately ride flat courses when recording rides, or ride in 'chain gangs' to seemingly get their speeds up. Strava averages are by and large, a load of balls. I find a better way to judge your actual speed, is to look at a GPS speedo when riding at steady state, take a mental note, then the next time you get to a steady state, look again. See if you can get that reproducible, then do similar, but going up inclines, then work on getting those figures reproduceable. When you can hit a certain speed reproducibly, then work on increasing that speed.


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## dim (10 Dec 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> Those are 'average' speeds. Average speeds include a multitude of evils, speeding up, slowing down, getting pinned in traffic, etc. etc. etc. A lot of people 'trim' their Strava plots to deliberately remove any warm up / warm down bits, and deliberately ride flat courses when recording rides, or ride in 'chain gangs' to seemingly get their speeds up. Strava averages are by and large, a load of balls. I find a better way to judge your actual speed, is to look at a GPS speedo when riding at steady state, take a mental note, then the next time you get to a steady state, look again. See if you can get that reproducible, then do similar, but going up inclines, then work on getting those figures reproduceable. When you can hit a certain speed reproducibly, then work on increasing that speed.



depends how competitive you are. Average speed is very important and a benchmark to compare yourself to others

I have a few routes that I use for my quality weekend rides .... first thing that I look at is the wind forecast for the day then decide what route to use (I have a microsoft access database program where I record all my quality rides plus the info such as wind speed, wind direction, average speed, ave cadence, heartbeat etc

On the day, I decide from the wind speed and wind direction, which route to use. The main filter is the average speed .... i.e. if the wind is blowing NNW, I will filter my results to show all the rides when the wind was NNW and check which routes had the highest average speed, and what the wind speed was on the day of the ride.

to check the wind speed and direction, I use windytv.com

average speed on a course is very important, and I always try to better my previous best. It's always always nice to do a fast ride (I commute during the week to several different sites, so have all wind/weather daily, from all directions, but weekends I want to do quality long fast rides

Through Strava, I also always compare my average speed to others who have cycled the same route/segments on the same day, and check how I performed compared to others in my same age group


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## bozmandb9 (10 Dec 2016)

User48980 said:


> Yeah, I am doing it for fitness but I also want to try doing some local competitions, and speed is key usually. I have cycled with the slower group a few times now. We did 65km, at 24kmh. then I cycled 30km extra, to the club and home.
> 
> Club cycling is really fun. I think I will be doing a lot of club cycles from now on.
> 
> I am not sure if it matters but I am 15. So maybe as I get older I will get slightly faster? with muscle development and stuff.



Well that changes everything! If you get in shape, you should be able to get up to 30 kph pretty quickly. Then it just depends on how hard you train, and how high your ambition is.

I manage a team of Youth A riders (under 16). We'll be taking four of the best for a three day race next year in Spain. Over 60km, the leaders will average 40 kph over the flattish stage. 40 kph average over the three days.

But average speed is not really that relevant, compared to elevation. and other conditions, such as wind and temperature. I can average 17-19 mph, and find it an easy ride, but on a proper hilly ride, be wiped out with an average under 15!

If you really want to improve, see if you can find a local club which offers youth coaching. Also, pay as much, if not more, attention to bike skills, as you do to speed. If you get involved in other cycling activities such as cyclocross, track cycling, maybe even bmx or mountain biking, you'll pick up bike handling skills.

Extremely important for you, right now, is ensuring that you have the skills, and knowledge, to ride safely. Don't worry about going out with faster groups, until you are really confident with riding in groups, with the communication within the group, safety protocols, etc etc.

Also pay attention to what you do off the bike. Our off season training schedule is as much off the bike as on it, including gym work, swimming, running, yoga, and ideally a team sport too. It's very important at your developmental stage that you don't spend too much time on your bike, without doing other sports. The training benefits of cross training are well proven, and there are other important aspects, such as social, and keeping a balance.

Cycling is an incredible sport. If you want to get competitive, you will need structure and guidance. You can look on the British Cycling website for local races, but just make sure your skills are ready for any race. Criterium racing for example, you'll need good handling skills for.

Sounds like you're putting in great effort, so keep it up. Your heart rate will come down a zone or two for the speed you're doing as your aerobic fitness increases (which may happen pretty quickly). Keep up the great work, enjoy it, but put safety first! (Which means skills, and road safety).


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## S-Express (10 Dec 2016)

Average speed in racing means nothing.


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## dim (10 Dec 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Well that changes everything! If you get in shape, you should be able to get up to 30 kph pretty quickly. Then it just depends on how hard you train, and how high your ambition is.
> 
> I manage a team of Youth A riders (under 16). We'll be taking four of the best for a three day race next year in Spain. Over 60km, the leaders will average 40 kph over the flattish stage. 40 kph average over the three days.
> 
> ...



under 16's who will average 40km/hr for 60 km?

they must be test tube babies who were fed GMO


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## bozmandb9 (10 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> under 16's who will average 40km/hr for 60 km?
> 
> they must be test tube babies who were fed GMO



I'm sure you know better Dim, I'm only going on what I was told by the team manager who took his riders out there last year. You do realise that these are international riders we're talking about? A decent youth will start to get considerably faster than your average club rider from 13/14. By 15, they are pretty much man sized, on a perfect 100% legal natural program of mega doses of testosterone and human growth hormone, but still weighing in at half to two thirds of what we weigh.

But what the hell, I'm sure you know better (feel free to come along for a rider with our Youth A some time and you'll change your mind!).


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## bozmandb9 (10 Dec 2016)

Just love the wonderful constructive feedback you get on this forum from armchair experts. 

So as a Youth team manager helping to coach and manage kids same age a OP, I get one guy instantly saying that my stats are wrong because he thinks they're too high, and another saying they are meaningless because they are from a race. I think it's just shock and resentment from both on realising that snotty nosed teenagers can ride the pants off them before they're out of short trousers. Get over it guys, or say something constructive.


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## dim (10 Dec 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> I'm sure you know better Dim, I'm only going on what I was told by the team manager who took his riders out there last year. You do realise that these are international riders we're talking about? A decent youth will start to get considerably faster than your average club rider from 13/14. By 15, they are pretty much man sized, on a perfect 100% legal natural program of mega doses of testosterone and human growth hormone, but still weighing in at half to two thirds of what we weigh.
> 
> But what the hell, I'm sure you know better (feel free to come along for a rider with our Youth A some time and you'll change your mind!).



dunno .... I look at stats from segements on Strava .... anything close or over 40km/hr for 60km is world class IMHO

here's a link to a strava segement on a very popular route of 16km .... the guys on top of the leaderboard who averaged approx 40km/hr were most probably helped by gale forced winds from the back:

https://www.strava.com/segments/7007129

if you can average 30-35km/hr on a 60km route, without a strong wind pushing you, you are very talented


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## S-Express (10 Dec 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Just love the wonderful constructive feedback you get on this forum from armchair experts.
> 
> So as a Youth team manager helping to coach and manage kids same age a OP, I get one guy instantly saying that my stats are wrong because he thinks they're too high, and another saying they are meaningless because they are from a race. I think it's just shock and resentment from both on realising that snotty nosed teenagers can ride the pants off them before they're out of short trousers. Get over it guys, or say something constructive.


I'm not criticising you fella, I'm simply saying that average speed in races is irrelevant and I'd be surprised if you didn't agree. 

I'm also involved in youth coaching /racing and my view is that being first over the line is far more meaningful than how fast you went.


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## S-Express (10 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> dunno .... I look at stats from segements on Strava .... anything close or over 40km/hr for 60km is world class IMHO
> 
> here's a link to a strava segement on a very popular route of 16km .... the guys on top of the leaderboard who averaged approx 40km/hr were most probably helped by gale forced winds from the back:
> 
> ...


Bear in mind those are bunch speeds, not individual.


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## User48980 (11 Dec 2016)

Recently I think I have been getting a bit faster.

3 days I just wanted to go for a cycle on all flats, no hills. It was slightly windy, but I managed 28.5 kph for 32km! I could have went for longer. But my back was killing me, because the saddle was really bad and I am yet to have my bike fitting.

So now that I have my new saddle and going to be getting a bike fitting soon, Maybe i could managed 30 kph? + 1.5 kph doesn't seem so hard.

Edit: Also thank you guys for all the advice!


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## bozmandb9 (14 Dec 2016)

Good that you're improving Novantix.

I'd suggest reading up on bike fitting, and saving your money for the moment. I'm all for bike fitting in general, but assuming you have limited funds, I'd use them for joining a club first, getting BC membership if you don't already.

If you're getting back pain (lower back?) I'd hazard a guess that either your bars or too low, or your stem is the wrong length (could be too long or too short). If you turn up at a club, you'll find plenty of people who can advise you on fit.

The main reason I would suggest paying for a bike fit just yet, is that you'll change your ideal riding position quite quickly over the first year or so, as you get more comfortable on the bike. You'll also get better at knowing what works, what feels right, and what doesn't. I think a novice can't really give good enough feedback to make a fit worthwhile.

Remember, as said above speed is pretty irrelevant, compared to wind, elevation, and conditions. Most of us will slow during the winter for various reasons. For example on winter roads, you have to take descents and corners slower in general, and cold muscles just don't really work as well. If you're improving now, you'll see a step change in Springtime, as well as probably getting many more miles in.

If you get out with a club ride, especially if you can find one with riders of your own age and ability, you'll immediately be going significantly faster, due to sharing the work of breaking the wind, and you'll probably really enjoy the sociable element, and learn a lot too.

Keep up the great work anyway.


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## bozmandb9 (14 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> dunno .... I look at stats from segements on Strava .... anything close or over 40km/hr for 60km is world class IMHO
> 
> here's a link to a strava segement on a very popular route of 16km .... *the guys on top of the leaderboard who averaged approx 40km/hr were most probably helped by gale forced winds from the back:*
> 
> ...



Maybe, or maybe they're 14-18 year olds, who can put out much more power than us, and weigh much less! Also, as S-Express pointed out, race speeds are much higher because being in a peleton is totally different to being solo! 

Just reading another post about how increase in speed requires a proportionately much higher increase in power, due to wind resistance. Take away most of the wind resistance when you're in the peloton, and you can quickly see how the speed will shoot up.

Having said which, 40+ kph still sounds massive to me, don't think it would happen for me, but honestly, youngsters are so lucky, like I said, high and increasing power, low weight, plus natures perfect doping program during adolescence, oh, plus when they are fighting wind, their frontal area is probably half of ours!


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## jefmcg (14 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> dunno .... I look at stats from segements on Strava .... anything close or over 40km/hr for 60km is world class IMHO
> 
> here's a link to a strava segement on a very popular route of 16km .... the guys on top of the leaderboard who averaged approx 40km/hr were most probably helped by gale forced winds from the back:
> 
> ...


Well, yes, of course they will have tail winds. There are thousands of riders on that segment, so there have been tens of thousands of individual rides, some with a head wind, some with a tail wind and some on still days. It would be extremely unlikely that the fastest speed would have been recorded on a day without a tail wind.

Of course, if you want actual data, you can check the weather. April 1st 2015 - the date of the fastest ride - had westerlies around 20mph. Presumably they help. On the other hand, the date is a bit suspicious plus here is another ride by the same guy; there is something extremely dodgy about his GPS.


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## nickyboy (14 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> dunno .... I look at stats from segements on Strava .... anything close or over 40km/hr for 60km is world class IMHO
> 
> here's a link to a strava segement on a very popular route of 16km .... the guys on top of the leaderboard who averaged approx 40km/hr were most probably helped by gale forced winds from the back:
> 
> ...



If you look at some of the strava stuff posted by pros in races it gives some perspective.

Here's one from a domestic UK pro (so very good but not right at the top of the tree). 180km, 1500m of climbing and he averaged 41 km/hr
https://www.strava.com/activities/702946069

It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to imagine a really good 16 year old doing 60 flat km at a similar pace in a peloton. Never ridden in the middle of a big, fast group but appreciating the tow you get just sitting behind one rider it must be a hell of a difference


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## smutchin (14 Dec 2016)

S-Express said:


> Average speed in racing means nothing.



Except in time trials!


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## smutchin (14 Dec 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> and another saying they are meaningless because they are from a race.



I didn't read that as a criticism of you - more a case of agreeing with what you said in your previous post, namely that there are far more important things for the OP to think about than speed, such as group riding skills. I made a similar point earlier in the thread.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Dec 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> I think it's just shock and resentment from both on realising that snotty nosed teenagers can ride the pants off them before they're out of short trousers. Get over it guys, or say something constructive.



I'd just like to point out that I don't _only_ resent snotty nosed teenagers riding faster than me. I _also_ resent older ladies and gentlemen riding faster than me. In fact, I resent absolutely anyone who rides faster than me, without fear or favour. I'm an equal opportunities resenter.

Despite this I'm still probably in the top few percent fastest cyclists out of the overall (mostly sedentary) population.

To the OP, I'll go back to my orignal tip of: _A little bit further and a little bit faster than you do at the moment._


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