# Today has left me utterly depressed....



## Sara_H (27 Nov 2013)

Considering I only ride about 4 miles to work, it's depressing.

Got beeped at a first time, by a driver who couldn't pass me due to oncomng traffic. Traffic cleared so he took his chance to deliver a punishment pass with another beep thrown in for good measure.

Two minutes later, similar situation, heading down hill, no room for following car to pass so driver leaned on the horn, all the way for about 30 seconds until we got to the next set of lights. Of course light is at red, she proceeds to give me a gobful, her behaviour is justified because I wasn't in the painted on cycle path which I'm required to do by law according to her.

Five minutes later, once again, riding along towards a junction, traffic oncoming on oppisite side. White van behind me. Oncoming traffic clears, white van man floors it, close passes, then cuts me up to slot in front of me and slams brakes on for junction.

Next, my colleague, a perfectly normal sensible woman asks me why I'm so quiet. I told her I'd had a bad ride into work, I'd been bullied by terrible drivers and nearly knocked off at least once. She then proceeded to rant about the really annoying cyclist riding on the 40mph dualled road, making really difficult for all the drivers to get past, when there's a perfectly good cycle path on the pavement along side. The cycle path she's referring to is notoriously crap, I tried to explain to her, she just couldn't get it and continued to rant on.

It's all left me feeling quite down in the dumps.


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## Markymark (27 Nov 2013)

It's changing. I know so many people getting into cycling. The numbers are unprecedented. It's all over the news and everyone is talking about it. 

There will at some point be a critical mass (no reference to organisation). It will take time but I am convinced the tide will turn.


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## ScotiaLass (27 Nov 2013)

I don't really use the roads and don't commute but the few experiences I've had have been similar.
I really feel for you - it's like an uphill battle which it seems, non-cyclists, will never understand


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## Spinney (27 Nov 2013)

Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Unlike driver 1, stupid tart 2 and WVM, you're getting exercise, you're fitter and you've got around 28000 friends*

And unlike dim bimbo in the office, you have a brain that works.



*OK, so counting ALL members of CycleChat may be overdoing it a bit!

What you need is:






and


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## Brandane (27 Nov 2013)




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## Pale Rider (27 Nov 2013)

The insensitivity of your colleague - anti-cyclist rant to a cyclist who has just had a difficult ride in - borders on the comical.

Perhaps she was inspired by the news of the Monty Python reunion.


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## Sara_H (27 Nov 2013)

The thing about my colleague that depressed me most is, that she had absolutely no concept of what was wrong about what she was saying. She's generally a lovely woman, very intelligent, sensitive and caring - but demonstrated to me that drivers have got no idea about why cyclists behave in the way they do, and rather tahn wondering why, just gets angry.
Same with the woman at the lights, as far as she was concerned I was the devil for slowing her progress to the red traffic light, and I was completely illegal for not being in the cycle lane that would have allowed her to pass me, albeit far too close to be safe.


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Nov 2013)

Sara!
Same here: got some lovely colleagues, when they hear "cyclists" it's like they've been insulted.
One young boy, who used to cycle to work until he got a girlfriend with a car, marveled at how did I dare cycle so all the cars had to change lane to pass me, inconveniencing them.
He was in a car behind me, told me at work, implying I should really cycle in the gutter, even though the road is a double carriageway.


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

I very nearly joined a couple in their car tonight, via the rear window. Driver just pulled into my lane right in front. They geard my foul language ad the windows were down. Very sheepish after that.

Crap happens sometimes. Ignore the idiots


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## Banjo (27 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> The thing about my colleague that depressed me most is, that she had absolutely no concept of what was wrong about what she was saying. She's generally a lovely woman, very intelligent, sensitive and caring - but demonstrated to me that drivers have got no idea about why cyclists behave in the way they do, and rather tahn wondering why, just gets angry.
> Same with the woman at the lights, as far as she was concerned I was the devil for slowing her progress to the red traffic light, and I was completely illegal for not being in the cycle lane that would have allowed her to pass me, albeit far too close to be safe.


I would have pointed out to her that the only illegal act was her misusing her car horn.


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## Matt1243 (27 Nov 2013)

Starting to have more and more incidents as the winter rolls in. I'vebeen commuting for about 3 years and the winter is always worse.

At least everyone at work has been converted (at least in front of me) to understand why cyclists take the lane etc.

Had a man in his car beep at me today, whilst going round a round-a-bout, whilst he was sat on his phone. Get home to see the One Show talking about cyclists with experts such as Gary Barlow and Miranda (who said she jumps red lights) Turn on facebook to see the Labour Party have a new plan for cyclists and all of the comments are bigoted statements about jumping red lights, not paying Road Tax.

Getting fed up with people making out like cyclists are the problem. 

Ban cars.


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## Maverick Goose (27 Nov 2013)

That's the spirit!


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## dave r (27 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Considering I only ride about 4 miles to work, it's depressing.
> 
> Got beeped at a first time, by a driver who couldn't pass me due to oncomng traffic. Traffic cleared so he took his chance to deliver a punishment pass with another beep thrown in for good measure.
> 
> ...



I must be doing something different to rest of you, I rarely have incidents and it unusual for me to get beeped and I can't remember the last time I got abuse, Sara H don't let the buggers grind you down, just keep pedalling.


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## Sara_H (27 Nov 2013)

Banjo said:


> I would have pointed out to her that the only illegal act was her misusing her car horn.


I tried,but she was ranting on and on. She was really angry, and yet I had done absolutely nothing wrong. That's what's upsetting me, the terrible anger, for no reason at all.


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## Sara_H (27 Nov 2013)

dave r said:


> I must be doing something different to rest of you, I rarely have incidents and it unusual for me to get beeped and I can't remember the last time I got abuse, Sara H don't let the buggers grind you down, just keep pedalling.


I think part of my problem is that I've spent most of my working life commuting at unsocial hours, but now I work office hours I'm exposed to rush hour commuting. 
I usually get a hand full of close passes every day, but today was just outstanding with the horn blowing and punishment passes.


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## Dismount (27 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I tried,but she was ranting on and on. She was really angry, and yet I had done absolutely nothing wrong. That's what's upsetting me, the terrible anger, for no reason at all.



Don't let them get to you, payback is best, steal her office chair and mouse mat and replace with the below


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## 400bhp (27 Nov 2013)

Car drivers get abuse from other drivers.

driving is much more srressful than cyclin, dont get dragged into the drudgery and mindset of commuting by car.

I think I got beeped tonight, not really interested to be honest. The bit of road I had just entered was choca for a mile and a half, loved filtering through all that and heard myself mouthing losers


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## RedRider (27 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> The thing about my colleague that depressed me most is, that she had absolutely no concept of what was wrong about what she was saying. She's generally a lovely woman, very intelligent, sensitive and caring - but demonstrated to me that drivers have got no idea about why cyclists behave in the way they do, and rather tahn wondering why, just gets angry.
> Same with the woman at the lights, as far as she was concerned I was the devil for slowing her progress to the red traffic light, and I was completely illegal for not being in the cycle lane that would have allowed her to pass me, albeit far too close to be safe.


How frustrating. I know exactly what you're saying, sometimes it's hard to shrug off and it's really to the fore at the moment.
I reckon I'm pretty chilled most of the time, have the odd wry smile about the road and life in general and get on with it but depending on the weather there's something about being beeped just for being there that can really get me goat. Arghh!
Not always tho...A couple of weeks ago I was cruising in a lane of traffic, all going 20mph, a steady ten metres gap and I heard beeping behind. It was a courier on a scooter and he pulled alongside as we carried along. I genuinely thought he was going to say 'your pocket's open' or something helpful. Instead he complained that I was in the middle of the road and I should be 'on the left, the left!' At least you can have a conversation with someone on a scooter so after I got over me surprise I was able to look him in the eye and tell him to 'do one'. In the end it was quite a positive experience!


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## clockman (27 Nov 2013)

How ever upset you feel, don't get too upset. Let your colleague and the ignorant, impatient drivers get the extra high blood pressure induced brain embolism.
It's their problem, not yours. You have just as much right to be on the road as them. Just stay safe and take the moral high ground and don't lower yourself to their level. It's not worth it.
Just look forward to tomorrow's commute.


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## BigonaBianchi (28 Nov 2013)

Someone once told me that "you cannot reason with ignorance" I've never heard a truer phrase.


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## line71 (28 Nov 2013)

Stand up for yourself and dish their shoot back,i dont take no shoot from these morons


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

what you need to do is, when they beep at you, smile and give them the thumbs up or wave as if you know them. It really infuriates them. They drive away mad and you arrive at work highly amused.


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

o and as for the bitch at the lights. pretend something is wrong with your bike and get off and take a look. ensure you look long enough to hold her up for one complete cycle of lights. that will make her have a really bad day.


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## RedRider (28 Nov 2013)

buggi said:


> what you need to do is, when they beep at you, smile and give them the thumbs up or wave as if you know them. It really infuriates them. They drive away mad and you arrive at work highly amused.


I've blown the odd kiss in my time


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## RedRider (28 Nov 2013)

buggi said:


> o and as for the bitch at the lights. pretend something is wrong with your bike and get off and take a look. ensure you look long enough to hold her up for one complete cycle of lights. that will make her have a really bad day.


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## RedRider (28 Nov 2013)

Ha! That too


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

also, a perfectly timed snot shot adds to the comedy.


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## RedRider (28 Nov 2013)

I'm not that accurate at snots. Shoot myself in the foot so to speak.


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

RedRider said:


> I'm not that accurate at snots. Shoot myself in the foot so to speak.


 
just snot into your fingers and then flick it... Way more accurate.


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## Accy cyclist (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I tried,but she was ranting on and on. She was really angry, and yet I had done absolutely nothing wrong. That's what's upsetting me, the terrible anger, for no reason at all.




At that point i would've given up on doing the diplomatic cyclist bit and reached for my trusty plastic water bottle and cooled the ranting stressed out fool down with a nice squirt!


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

when a driver is shouting at you, pretend to rev your bike and do this...

View: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXDGhKJ40


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## slowmotion (28 Nov 2013)

It's easy for me to say , but just try and forget it. There are lots of considerate people in cars , vans, and lorries that you meet every day. They count a lot more than half a handful of plonkers.


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## markharry66 (28 Nov 2013)

Just say in a polite way that is your opinion mine is different. Have you seen the recent deaths on the road. Thats the sort of attitude that probably helps cause it.


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## ufkacbln (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> The thing about my colleague that depressed me most is, that she had absolutely no concept of what was wrong about what she was saying. She's generally a lovely woman, very intelligent, sensitive and caring - but demonstrated to me that drivers have got no idea about why cyclists behave in the way they do, and rather tahn wondering why, just gets angry.
> Same with the woman at the lights, as far as she was concerned I was the devil for slowing her progress to the red traffic light, and I was completely illegal for not being in the cycle lane that would have allowed her to pass me, albeit far too close to be safe.


Just be you

I had someone at work who was the same,and just used to smile until he came in ranting one morning about how I had held them up and "forced" them yo overtake

I then asked them if they would like yo discuss the problem after watching video 

I the. Showed a few minutes of helmet cam footage of that morning,including them overtaking and a very close left hook through a red light now. witnessed (and condemned as stupid) by half of the office staff

Then asked how my stopping at a ref light was obstructing them, and how I had forced them to jump a red light

I have never had a comment made since


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## ufkacbln (28 Nov 2013)

The other on I pulled a few years ago was on a single lane bridge at Haslar

Narrow and light controlled it wasn't safe so used to ride in primary

Had a muppet blasting his horn on te rise, so as suggested above, assumed something was wrong with the bike and dutifully checked my panniers etc

By which time the lights changed and three or four vehicles came over the rise 
to face on the single track

Me I walked down the pavement while he had to reverse a hundred yards bing sworn at and beeped by the drivers he had upset


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## Cycling Dan (28 Nov 2013)

I don't see why people get annoyed with cyclists least we are moving. Parked cars in two lane roads are more of a pandemic in my eyes. Takin up nearly an entire lane creating a choke point and resulting in people having to do the nasty which is be nice and give way!!! Far more annoying yet more acceptable??


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## Spinney (28 Nov 2013)

buggi said:


> o and as for the bitch at the lights. pretend something is wrong with your bike and get off and take a look. ensure you look long enough to hold her up for one complete cycle of lights. that will make her have a really bad day.


And then wait around off the road somewhere until they are well ahead of you so you don't get a punishment pass from that car or the ones behind who could see it was you...


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## binsted (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Of course light is at red, she proceeds to give me a gobful, her behaviour is justified because I wasn't in the painted on cycle path which I'm required to do by law according to her.



I wonder if she would have said the same to a male cyclist at the lights..............

It amazes me the anger generated by a car journey, complete strangers getting angry and wanting to "fight the world" ...............can you imagine the same situation with peeps walking along the pavement at different paces and shouting obscenities to anybody in their way.......


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## mattobrien (28 Nov 2013)

It's odd really, I think that driving can be stressful and can turn otherwise decent people into less than decent folk. I think that it may down down to a sense of entitlement that driving can bring if you have the ability to go at a certain speed, then you think you will be able to do that speed for the whole journey, when you can't or get held up, that isn't according to plan and can cause added stress. That can come from someone pulling out on you, nipping in in front (on a dual carriage way) or being held behind a cyclist while you (hopefully) wait for it to be safe to overtake.

If the roads were quieter, or people allowed a little more time for their journeys, the whole process might be a lot less stressful.

I haven't ever got wound up by cyclists and like to think that I am much more considerate to them and the prospect of them being around the next blind bend than before I started cycling again.

I do sometime find the behaviour of other drivers annoying and have to pull myself up when this happens.

It would be better to remember that everyone is on a journey and if we all help each other, the chances are that we will all arrive in a better state, either quicker or in better state of mind. There is the possibility that our 'busy lives' contribute stress to everything and that this can spill over into transport, of any form.

I don't commute so don't have this issue and the very vast majority of overtakes on my are very safe, I get the occasional closer pass, but it is probably more down to ignorance than on purpose. I normally raise a hand to let people know it wasn't right, but don't gesticulate or turn a hand into a fist. It is more about making someone aware that it wasn't right, without getting too grumpy. I don't let it interfere with the rest of my ride.

I also raise a more friendly hand to drivers who pass who have waited behind for it to be safe, saying thanks is probably more important than getting cross when things don't go as planned.

All just my random musings...


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## Mizred (28 Nov 2013)

I think my favourite journey to work was the day I was shouted at by the oversized passenger in a white van, because I clearly had the audacity to by cycling on his road and not on the badly surfaced unswept cycle lane on the pavement. Imagine his face when at the level crossing with the barriers down, I caught up with him and knocked on the window for a little chat. I am a very polite person, never swear and smile a lot. However this was still enough to make him go very red and apparently forget how to speak. Kept me amused for the rest of the day. Seriously just ignore the idiots, they are no worth getting bothered by, just keep smiling and keep cycling!


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## screenman (28 Nov 2013)

Mizred said:


> I think my favourite journey to work was the day I was shouted at by the oversized passenger in a white van, because I clearly had the audacity to by cycling on his road and not on the badly surfaced unswept cycle lane on the pavement. Imagine his face when at the level crossing with the barriers down, I caught up with him and knocked on the window for a little chat. I am a very polite person, never swear and smile a lot. However this was still enough to make him go very red and apparently forget how to speak. Kept me amused for the rest of the day. Seriously just ignore the idiots, they are no worth getting bothered by, just keep smiling and keep cycling!



I have done the same on a few occasions, funny how they react, although I would not suggest too many cyclists try it as one day it may backfire.


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## Crankarm (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Considering I only ride about 4 miles to work, it's depressing.
> 
> Got beeped at a first time, by a driver who couldn't pass me due to oncomng traffic. Traffic cleared so he took his chance to deliver a punishment pass with another beep thrown in for good measure.
> 
> ...



Just tell your colleague to go fark themselves.


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## BigonaBianchi (28 Nov 2013)

screenman said:


> I have done the same on a few occasions, funny how they react, although I would not suggest too many cyclists try it as one day it may backfire.



I always knock for a chat if they have been naughty children. They revert to type without the protection of their lethal weapon. Cowards.


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## Crankarm (28 Nov 2013)

Yesterday and day before 1 taxi and a car driver and an ar$ehole Stagecoach bus driver all leaned on their horns to try to get me out the way. The taxi driver was at the new traffic light junction at Hills Road and Lensfield road. He had stopped into the cycle feeder to the huge ASL that has been created so I just squeezed through, no left indicator on, and he took umbrage leaning on his horn startling me and the other cyclists in the ASL. He continued to lean on his horn so I turned around and lost it with him. When the lights turned green he shadowed me to the station turning gesticulating madly and as I passed in the right lane as I was continuing up the cycle lane along Hills Road and not going to the station he leaned out his driver's window and tried to whack me. daffodil! The last person who did that to me nearly got their arm broken as I grabbed it and hung onto it as I cycled pulling them flat against the inside of the bus cab. Nice one I thought. Then a bit before in regent's street a stagecoach double decker pulled in on me in the cycle lane so I banged on the side of the bus about 1/3 of the way down. Then at a red light just up the road the daffodil opened the bus doors jumped out and tried to come after me shouting abuse and making threats. I was gone I wasn't hanging around. What a total daffodil well Stagecoach drivers are they all hate cyclists and pedestrians. Then yesterday riding down the Milton road just before Union Lane junction going to work another daffodil in a mercedes van private taxi box came up fast behind me in the bus lane about 2 feet from my rear wheel. I thought the farker was going to run me down. He looked like that twat Kielty but younger. Anyway I slowed and turned around signalling to him to get back. The farker then lent on his horn and started threatening me reving the engine so I lost it calling him all sorts. Had he stopped and got out I would have decked him, seriously I was so scared and angry. He would not have got up. Anyway I got his reg and license number to report to CCC and Police. The latter who will probably do fark all. There is a lot of aggression out there towards cyclists so be careful.


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## Crankarm (28 Nov 2013)

screenman said:


> I have done the same on a few occasions, funny how they react, although I would not suggest too many cyclists try it as one day it may backfire.



Years ago a friend of mine who was 6'5" and a good club cyclist caught a builders white van that had given him grief as the passenger gobbed on him as they passed by. Anyway at the red light just up the road where the van had stopped my mate pulled up along the inside, knocked on the passenger's window pointing to the gob on his cycling jersey. The occupant gave my mate the Vs. Bad move. Suddenly my mate then whacked the side of the door with his full weight. The daffodils inside must have sh1t themselves as the driver floored it jumping the red lights. My mate was not a happy bunny. The dent he left in the passenger door was huge!


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## glasgowcyclist (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> It's all left me feeling quite down in the dumps.


 
I know it isn't always easy but try to rise above it. Don't get into a shouting match, there's rarely any good comes of it. Instead, smile at them with sympathy for they are having a really crap day and are taking it out on someone else. Carrying the incident(s) around with you all day will only bring you down too.

Have some cake now...

GC


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## Twelve Spokes (28 Nov 2013)

I think a lot of them are bullies or just very insecure.I'm more confident in myself now with some of the idiots.Generally Im calmer now and try not to lose it as much but I remember going into one with a bus at Elephant and Castle which cut in on me and bike almost wiped us out about a year ago.I think the whole street heard.


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> Just be you
> 
> I had someone at work who was the same,and just used to smile until he came in ranting one morning about how I had held them up and "forced" them yo overtake
> 
> ...


 that is brilliant


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## buggi (28 Nov 2013)

Cunobelin said:


> The other on I pulled a few years ago was on a single lane bridge at Haslar
> 
> Narrow and light controlled it wasn't safe so used to ride in primary
> 
> ...


 again, brilliant


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## Twelve Spokes (28 Nov 2013)

Sara,work colleagues can be a waste of time.I must have had the same old conversation about a billion times and im fed up with wasting my breath as I know it's going to get nowhere especially when they start spouting the same old crap about road tax and how bad cyclists are and I just let them get on with it.I think they just do it as a wind up.

Hopefully you will feel better soon.I think my worst feeling is after some particularly close pass of which I have suffered quite a few this year but the roads round here don't really intimidate me anymore like they used to.


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## Bromptonaut (28 Nov 2013)

Is there something in the air this week? 

My route is well established and I generally have little trouble but...

Tuesday, I've negotiated the melee in Melton St around the RCGP building and the Euston taxis before properly signalled turn into Euston's side entrance. Woman in Audi continues to creep up behind and positions herself to overtake - WTF!!. A shout brought her to her senses. 

Last night it's a coach, proceeding I'd guess under directions of satnav, tries to go ahead of me up east side of Bloomsbury Sq Gardens. Just about squeezed through but created a traffic jam. Taxi behind tries to squeeze alongside me to be directly behind coach - for what!!! there's no way hell get past and it's likely headed for Russell Sq so soon be out of way. 

Maybe his fare was nagging him.


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## Dismount (28 Nov 2013)

Mizred said:


> I think my favourite journey to work was the day I was shouted at by the oversized passenger in a white van, because I clearly had the audacity to by cycling on his road and not on the badly surfaced unswept cycle lane on the pavement. Imagine his face when at the level crossing with the barriers down, I caught up with him and knocked on the window for a little chat. I am a very polite person, never swear and smile a lot. However this was still enough to make him go very red and apparently forget how to speak. Kept me amused for the rest of the day. Seriously just ignore the idiots, they are no worth getting bothered by, just keep smiling and keep cycling!



Curious - can you script the conversation for my entertainment?


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## snorri (28 Nov 2013)

buggi said:


> just snot into your fingers and then flick it... Way more accurate.


 buggi, please.
Some of us read CycleChat while enjoying our evening meal.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I think part of my problem is that I've spent most of my working life commuting at unsocial hours, but now I work office hours I'm exposed to rush hour commuting.
> I usually get a hand full of close passes every day, but today was just outstanding with the horn blowing and punishment passes.


I'm the same. Rarely my commute is during rush hour, but when it is I plan the most contorted routes to avoid grief from drivers.
Mind, got shouted at by a black taxi at silly am on a Sunday morning, nobody else on the 2 lane road but the two of us


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## lukesdad (28 Nov 2013)

You lot have too far too much time on your hands, don't thinksomuchabouit, A to B and dont get killed ! Thats what its about always has been and always will be, anybody who thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Nov 2013)

lukesdad said:


> You lot have too far too much time on your hands, don't thinksomuchabouit,* A to B and dont get killed *! Thats what its about always has been and always will be, anybody who thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo


We hope this will change for the future generations of cyclists.


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## lukesdad (28 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> We hope this will change for the future generations of cyclists.


 well you live in hope ! meanwhile the rest of us will just get on with it ...... if thats ok with you ?


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## Sara_H (28 Nov 2013)

Today was a much nicer ride to and from work, even had a few occasions to give a thank you wave to the odd motorist here and there.

Todays conversation with colleague was trying to get her to understand why filtering past stationary traffic on a bike is not "exactly the same" as passing a cyclist too close at 40mph. I failed. I think I may have to resolve not to talk to my colleague about cycling.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Nov 2013)

lukesdad said:


> well you live in hope ! meanwhile the rest of us will just get on with it ...... if thats ok with you ?


I am getting on with it


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## lukesdad (28 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I am getting on with it


 Obviously not coz you spend far too much time on here spouting off about it !


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## ayceejay (28 Nov 2013)

I was on a small motorcycle with girl friend and camping gear on the back, we couldn't go very fast so horn honking was a daily treat. One day, somewhere in Normandy it was worse than usual with every car that passed tooting and gesticulating "'ucking French" I thought, then my girlfriend tapped me on the shoulder so I stopped and strewn along the road for about half a mile was our tent, sleeping bags, pots and pans etc.


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## Jon George (28 Nov 2013)

However hard I try to keep calm in the face of about one zombie incident per hour, I'm not used to taking s**t from anyone - but I'm getting better. I just do more cycling - the bump in endorphins and serotonin compensates. I have also started moderating my language - an Adams Hills' retort has its charm


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## 400bhp (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Today was a much nicer ride to and from work, even had a few occasions to give a thank you wave to the odd motorist here and there.
> 
> Todays conversation with colleague was trying to get her to understand why filtering past stationary traffic on a bike is not "exactly the same" as passing a cyclist too close at 40mph. I failed. I think I may have to resolve not to talk to my colleague about cycling.



Ask her a question.

Scenario 1. Cyclist filtering past traffic at 20 mph. Cyclist hits car.

Scenario 2. Car ploughs into cyclist at 20 mph.

Give her Newton's 2nd law

F = MA

A is decellaration - assume the same for cycle and car.

Which has the greater force? a 10kg bike or a 2000kg car?


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## Shut Up Legs (28 Nov 2013)

I understand how attitudes like that can get you depressed, @Sara_H . I'm generally affected a lot by some people's anti-cyclist attitudes, too, even though I try not to be. Feel free to discuss it as long as you want on this thread, because many of us can relate to your experience. Hopefully, you'll meet a few pro-cyclist people to balance it out.


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## davefb (28 Nov 2013)

wrt work colleagues..

one recently (two weeks ago) has had a "could be worse" car accident, turns corner, bad sun, notices a flat bed truck very late, wrote car off, him and parents checked over in hospital... now tbh my attitude was "could be worse" coz really, it could have been...
*especially* since I thought "you could have killed someone, why the flip hadn't you slowed down??"

today he's moaned on facebook that a cyclist did a daft thing... i mean , from what he said, 'sounds' like they did, coz they pulled across or something..

I just thought ,, on my 25 mile each way motorway commute, if no driver does anything STUPID , it'd be a miracle and we're driving at 70 for a lot of it..

when I used to commute by bike, it'd be a miracle if I'd have nobody "try" to knock me off, or more normal, I just have to be aware that they're about to walk out in front of me..

but I'm aware of it... because i'm not an idiot.. 

but I "bit my tongue" on the facebook it really wasn't worth it..

But again its, *why* are cyclists singled out ??


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## Crankarm (28 Nov 2013)

Does anyone know what happened to the Hove cyclist who hit a driver of a Jag that cut him up nearly knocking him off? I think the cyclist was charged with GBH or the lesser ABH despite the driver trying to kill him in his car?


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## glenn forger (28 Nov 2013)

I doubt it crankarm, I think the driver lost a wing mirror if it's the one I'm thinking of?


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## Sara_H (28 Nov 2013)

400bhp said:


> Ask her a question.
> 
> Scenario 1. Cyclist filtering past traffic at 20 mph. Cyclist hits car.
> 
> ...



She wouldn't get it, I tried, she just could't understand. That's what's depressing me most, how completely ignorant ordinary people are of the risk they pose v what should be only very slight irritation of being held up for a few seconds.

Hohum. At least the actual ourney was better today.


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## 400bhp (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> She wouldn't get it, I tried, she just could't understand. That's what's depressing me most, how completely ignorant ordinary people are of the risk they pose v what should be only very slight irritation of being held up for a few seconds.
> 
> Hohum. At least the actual ourney was better today.



Tell her to post on here with her theories.

We will learn her.


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## Glow worm (28 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Today was a much nicer ride to and from work, even had a few occasions to give a thank you wave to the odd motorist here and there.
> 
> Todays conversation with colleague was trying to get her to understand why filtering past stationary traffic on a bike is not "exactly the same" as passing a cyclist too close at 40mph. I failed. I think I may have to resolve not to talk to my colleague about cycling.



Glad you had a better ride today. Hang in there- I find that sometimes I get home thinking it's just not worth it after yet another 'adventure' on Britain's shitty roads- but most of the time, the pleasure from cycling more than outweigh's the tosspot driver induced stress. Your colleague sounds like a typical bone headed moton- and probably secretly jealous that you are braver, fitter and brighter than she will ever be


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## mickle (28 Nov 2013)

Kill them. Kill them all.


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## 400bhp (28 Nov 2013)

mickle said:


> Kill them. Kill them all.



Oi, you're still on the naughty step.


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 Nov 2013)

Driving has become a deeply irrational normality and the more it becomes normal, the more irrational the behaviour of the drivers. You'd think that with all the time spent in queues they'd have figured it out but, no, the solution to congested roads is more and more 4x4s and people carriers apparently. And, further evidence of that irrationality is the fact that many drivers have to blame the smallest road users for the lack of space on the most crowded and congested roads. 

The reason for punishment passes and impatience is nearly always road delays, which are caused by too many people thinking they can all squeeze big objects into small spaces. The squeeze past that they can't do is primarily not because of the cyclist but because of the oncoming vehicles. The overtake they can't do on a dual carriageway is because of the sheer volume of cars in the outside lane. But, hey, pick on a push bike!

(For the record, I've been stuck in a car on London's south circular [Imagine something circular and then make it circuitous] for much of today. I've lost count of the number of times I saw drivers cutting up bikes, partly because of inferior observation skills, ignorance or IDGAF driving attitudes. Mostly because they were in a jam.)


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## ayceejay (28 Nov 2013)

One of the reasons for a motorists disconnect with reality is the way motor cars are advertized. Giving those who drive a car or ride a bike for sport a pass for the sake of my argument a car driver and a cyclists aims are the same. The aim is to transport yourself from where you are to where you want to be. Automobiles are not advertized as a means of comfortably but expensively taking you from home to work and back but as a way of doing this sexily and transporting you via a cloud and a route through Monte Carlo.
So imagine that instead of this heated seat 100 mph quadrophonic experience you get stuck behind a big arsed cyclist who do you blame?


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## Sara_H (28 Nov 2013)

I think this sums it up nicely. Motorist having a go at cyclist for selfishly holding him up when theres a five mile long traffic jam in front of them.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEzBcTrjt2s#t=311


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## glasgowcyclist (29 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I think this sums it up nicely. Motorist having a go at cyclist for selfishly holding him up when theres a five mile long traffic jam in front of them.


 
It's not that the motorist is a numpty who can't see the big flaw in his own argument; he _knows_ that queue is there every day. What irks him is that a mere cyclist is proving the point to him that his money-pit of a car isn't getting him anywhere as fast and stress free as was promised in the advert.

Oh, and the cyclist has also robbed him of his sole opportunity to accelerate as fast as he wants to the back of said queue. It's the only point in his journey he gets to take the car above 3,000 revs.

GC


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## snailracer (29 Nov 2013)

Could try a different route?


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## glasgowcyclist (29 Nov 2013)

snailracer said:


> Could try a different route?


 
Who, the car driver?

GC


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## shouldbeinbed (29 Nov 2013)

I'm not one for moaning about passes usually and don't get a lot of grief from other road users, but I had a very close pass this morning from a liveried Greater Manchester Police dog van despite my h-viz & multiple lights. I've tweeted the reg no and location and retweeted their #sharetheroad twitter links back to them.


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## bianchi1 (29 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I think this sums it up nicely. Motorist having a go at cyclist for selfishly holding him up when theres a five mile long traffic jam in front of them.
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEzBcTrjt2s#t=311





Interesting video! Not the best example of cycling at the end as he crashes into a stationary car! 
Bloody cyclists


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## Cyclopathic (29 Nov 2013)

The abuse given to cyclists is extremely cowardly. It seems that women get more of it than men which I suspect is because drivers think they will get away with it more easily. I am fortunate in a way that I am a big bloke and I think this has a lot to do with why I rarely get any abuse. (I'm not as tough as I look but they're not to know that)


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## Shut Up Legs (29 Nov 2013)

ayceejay said:


> One of the reasons for a motorists disconnect with reality is the way motor cars are advertized. Giving those who drive a car or ride a bike for sport a pass for the sake of my argument a car driver and a cyclists aims are the same. The aim is to transport yourself from where you are to where you want to be. Automobiles are not advertized as a means of comfortably but expensively taking you from home to work and back but as a way of doing this sexily and transporting you via a cloud and a route through Monte Carlo.
> So imagine that instead of this heated seat 100 mph quadrophonic experience you get stuck behind a big arsed cyclist who do you blame?


Oi!  My arse is very toned and muscular, thanks. I'll give you one guess as to why that is...


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## Spinney (29 Nov 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I think this sums it up nicely. Motorist having a go at cyclist for selfishly holding him up when theres a five mile long traffic jam in front of them.
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEzBcTrjt2s#t=311



Thought I recognised magnatom's dulcet tones!


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## Jon George (29 Nov 2013)

Cyclopathic said:


> (I'm not as tough as I look but they're not to know that)



Same here - but I've also developed an exceedingly good Paddington Bear Stare to complicate their thought process even further.


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## Allweathershorts (29 Nov 2013)

Only really had two bad experiences so far that stand out. 
The time when a lorry nearly crushed me against a railing and when someone clipped my back tyre as I was moving across a round-a-bout.
Second one the driver actually turned around and came back to check on me and apologise for the fact he hadn't looked properly! Was not expecting that when he pulled up 

Found my share of idiots on the road though, cutting me up, not looking when turning and such.


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## Cuchilo (29 Nov 2013)

I was telling a non cycling friend about some of the run ins I have had with motorists over the last few months . His reply was to be polite and always ask if they are fully comp before D locking the windscreen . It made me chuckle


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## Crackle (29 Nov 2013)

Spinney said:


> Thought I recognised magnatom's dulcet tones!


The girly voiced bugger was on the bbc news the other day being interviewed. It quite put me off me porridge ( I can say all that because there's no chance of him coming back to reprimand me).


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## Sara_H (29 Nov 2013)

Omfg! Got beeped at again on the way home. Same thing, riding in primary, driver has to wait for oncoming cars to pass, then beeped as he passed. Five minutes later, see same van parked outside shop (parked on pavement) so stopped and waited by drivers door. Driver comes out, young lad, his face fell when he saw me, he was mortified. 
"Did you beep me?" I asked.
Anyway long story short he asked me why I was in middle if road. I explained. He then asked why I didn't ride on path. I explained why. I then gave him a bit if a firm but fair lecture. He apologised, we went on our way
That has NEVER happened to me before.


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## Leodis (30 Nov 2013)

I don't think drivers will ever know the score, they have no idea how vulnerable we are. That said I get the same amount of good drivers giving me space and hang back or let me pull in as bad drivers giving me punishment passes, tail gating or beeping. 

Sara, its swings and roundabouts on the roads, bad drivers or cyclists and good ones.


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## Cuchilo (30 Nov 2013)

I get ALOT of female drivers tooting at me


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## ufkacbln (30 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> Oi!  My arse is very toned and muscular, thanks. I'll give you one guess as to why that is...



Le Petomane's arse was also toned (and tuned)


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## Phil Fouracre (30 Nov 2013)

Interesting, yup, I think initial impressions do effect responses. As a six foot four, fifteen stone, shaven headed cyclist, I get very few 'problems' with drivers. I've read loads of threads on various forums about conflict and have often wondered what all the fuss is about. Trying recently to note how vehicles interact, I really feel that the very great majority of drivers treat me perfectly courteously. I've even emailed a couple of local haulage contractors to compliment their drivers driving, got amazing/amazed responses! Attitude seems to play a great part though, I cycle like I drive, very positively, taking primary whenever it suits, eye contact, don't wander about etc etc. Sister in law, petite, blonde, wears pink plastic hat, rides 'in the ditch' has constant problems. Scared witless by cycling, sort of says it all!


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## Sara_H (30 Nov 2013)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Interesting, yup, I think initial impressions do effect responses. As a six foot four, fifteen stone, shaven headed cyclist, I get very few 'problems' with drivers. I've read loads of threads on various forums about conflict and have often wondered what all the fuss is about. Trying recently to note how vehicles interact, I really feel that the very great majority of drivers treat me perfectly courteously. I've even emailed a couple of local haulage contractors to compliment their drivers driving, got amazing/amazed responses! Attitude seems to play a great part though, I cycle like I drive, very positively, taking primary whenever it suits, eye contact, don't wander about etc etc. Sister in law, petite, blonde, wears pink plastic hat, rides 'in the ditch' has constant problems. Scared witless by cycling, sort of says it all!


I also ride very assertively. The majority of problems I have come from drivers who are angered by me riding in primary. 
I've questioned myself a lot this week about whether I'm riding in primary inappropriately, but I honestly don't think I am.


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## Julia9054 (30 Nov 2013)

Although female (and an assertive rider), I have very few problems. Maybe it depends where you ride - perhaps Harrogate is just polite!
If I do get beeped, it tends to be a car full of young lads who think they are funny! I give them a cheery wave as they pass. They probably get a bit of a shock when they realise I don't look anywhere near as young and sexy from the front!


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## oiljam (30 Nov 2013)

I think driving standards in general are now utterly depressing. A lot of people just seem to be instantly agrivated at the slightest thing. Constantly in a rush making deathly manoeuvres just to get one place further up a line of traffic. I find now that some car drivers speed to you, if you do something that slows them down, just so they can vent their annoyance. Everybody just seems to hate one another now on the roads. Someone stuck two's up at me the other day when I were in my car cos I didn't let him out. I weren't in a queue of traffic, it weren't busy and it was clear after me but he were annoyed instantly because he wanted to be in front. Probably only off for a loaf but an urgent loaf at that.
By the way, I'm a truck driver, car driver and cyclist....and everybody hates me everyday. I am the biggest inconvenience on the road when trucking peoples shopping to the supermarket. I don't try to be slow its just dam heavy to get going. I just find people funny when they get annoyed about clearly nothing. Society has evolved into a must have now, no patience, hateful and selfish form and it's reflected at its best on the roads. It really is quite sad. I hope one day we all learn to live together again, nicely.


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## clockman (30 Nov 2013)

oiljam said:


> I think driving standards in general are now utterly depressing. A lot of people just seem to be instantly agrivated at the slightest thing. Constantly in a rush making deathly manoeuvres just to get one place further up a line of traffic. I find now that some car drivers speed to you, if you do something that slows them down, just so they can vent their annoyance. Everybody just seems to hate one another now on the roads. Someone stuck two's up at me the other day when I were in my car cos I didn't let him out. I weren't in a queue of traffic, it weren't busy and it was clear after me but he were annoyed instantly because he wanted to be in front. Probably only off for a loaf but an urgent loaf at that.
> By the way, I'm a truck driver, car driver and cyclist....and everybody hates me everyday. I am the biggest inconvenience on the road when trucking peoples shopping to the supermarket. I don't try to be slow its just dam heavy to get going. I just find people funny when they get annoyed about clearly nothing. Society has evolved into a must have now, no patience, hateful and selfish form and it's reflected at its best on the roads. It really is quite sad. I hope one day we all learn to live together again, nicely.


 I can't agree with this enough. Impatience with life in general is I think the problem. Unfortunately, this ends up as road rage, in various degrees.
Driving standards need to improve. It needs to start with education. How people are taught by the instructor and the influences they are exposed to. If parents constantly shout and swear at cyclists, bus & truck drivers, this will be passed on to their offspring. It then becomes a vicious circle.
But, what is accepted on test by an driving test examiner needs to be re-assessed. The driving test needs to better reflect today's traffic conditions.
When I took my test, 30 plus years ago, I knew I would be asked questions on the Highway Code at the end of the test, so I had to read the Highway Code. It doesn't happen now. People take a theory test and they don't have to read the Highway Code to pass it as a potential new driver!


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## ufkacbln (30 Nov 2013)

I very ocasionally lose it, but.....
Had a driver get out of the car in a queue claiming that I was "holding him up" when all I was doing was maintaining a steady pace as opposed to the rapidly accelarate and severe brake that many motorists prefer

So I politely pointed out that he was going nowhere because there was a traffic queue - a point that was lost 

I let him pass then sat behind him tooting the AirZound for a few minutes, then drew alongside and asked him why he was "holding me up" before disappearing into the distance


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## Sara_H (30 Nov 2013)

I just don't think there's enough emphasis on vulnerable road users in driver education. 

It's 22 years since my driving test, but recently helped step son through his. It's all about making progress, not holding up others. Drivers apply that to cyclists and peds, and get angry when they have to slow down.

I think the only way forward is Dutch style infrastructure, I don't think you can cancel out the bullying culture of drivers thats developed over decades. until that happens I honestly think that cycling should be a compulsorary part of the driving test - drivers should have to spend a certain number of hours riding in traffic conditions, so that we know that those behind the wheel have got an idea of what cyclists are up against.


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## Stonechat (30 Nov 2013)

A couple of weeks ago I got cut up by a learner car. The driving was unlearner like and I suspect instructer was driving, the car went past me and very rapidly pulled in hard by the kerb so I had to brake.

I emailed the driving school with the reg of the car, but they never bothered to answer


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## 400bhp (30 Nov 2013)

Would youy mind linking to google maps where you keep getting hassle?


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## Sara_H (30 Nov 2013)

400bhp said:


> Would youy mind linking to google maps where you keep getting hassle?


This is one spot. Fairly narrow road, parked cars on both sides reduces it to one cars width. On this road its oncoming vehicles driving straight at me and slamming brakes on at the last minute.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=south view road sheffield&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x487982622bc24b47:0x7235be978cf6c1f0,S View Rd, Sheffield&gl=uk&ei=ivCZUofKMYGShQeBmYGwAg&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAA

The next two are both similar. Roads that are just two narrow to pass when theres oncoming traffic. They don't look too bad on street view, but feel different in real life and I know from experience that if I use the cycle lane I'll be subjected to one close pass after another. Bare in mind, in the first one I'm generally riding at more or less the speed limit anyway as its downhill all the way. Wheeeeeeee!

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=summerfield street&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4879827b44cf9141:0x4ba86b84d4512e9,Summerfield St, Sheffield S11 8HF&gl=uk&ei=rfCZUs2NLoGBhAequIHwBg&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAA

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=derbyshire lane sheffield&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x48798257c4b5f717:0x6952e5d632b23e03,Derbyshire Ln, Sheffield&gl=uk&ei=5-yZUsixH_GY0AXzz4DADw&ved=0CFUQ8gEwAw

And another
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=wa...UTF-8&ei=a_GZUu0BxqqEB8jRgegL&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg


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## 400bhp (30 Nov 2013)

Thanks for linking.

Back roads too - no excuse from drivers

There's lots of other back roads round there - why not try different routes? Or use the main road?

Worth a try.


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## clockman (30 Nov 2013)

Stonechat said:


> A couple of weeks ago I got cut up by a learner car. The driving was unlearner like and I suspect instructer was driving, the car went past me and very rapidly pulled in hard by the kerb so I had to brake.
> 
> I emailed the driving school with the reg of the car, but they never bothered to answer


Welcome to my world! I'm not brave enough to say which part of driver training I'm in, but, I'll bet the I driver in question was late meeting a pupil!
I am constantly amazed at the standard of driving I see from single occupants of driving school cars.
If it was an independent school, I'm not surprised. If a bigger local school or a national school, I'm still not surprised, but, if you have kids coming up to driving age, you are a potential customer. Their instructors actions and their ignoring of your email is not going to encourage you to use them. 
But, you've got word of mouth. If you find that relatives, friends and work colleagues are looking to learn to drive, tell them of your experience. Most driving school company's, big or small get a lot of their work through word of mouth recommendations. Just bad mouth them as often as possible.
If you feel that strongly, you need to find out who is in charge of examiner check testing in your area. Write to Driver Training Area Manager, c/o your local test centre (Chertsey or Ashford, if you live in Staines)
Send it so it needs a signature from the centre!


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## e-rider (30 Nov 2013)

0-markymark-0 said:


> It's changing. I know so many people getting into cycling. The numbers are unprecedented. It's all over the news and everyone is talking about it.
> 
> There will at some point be a critical mass (no reference to organisation). It will take time but I am convinced the tide will turn.


I have to say that the unprecedented numbers are actually making the problem worse. When I cycled 25 years ago, it was very unusual to get beeped at or abuse from drivers whilst commuting, now it happens everyday. There are no doubt a number of reasons for this change, but more cyclists is one of them. It never used to be this way!


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## 400bhp (30 Nov 2013)

e-rider said:


> I have to say that the unprecedented numbers are actually making the problem worse. When I cycled 25 years ago, it was very unusual to get beeped at or abuse from drivers whilst commuting, now it happens everyday. There are no doubt a number of reasons for this change*, but more cyclists is one of them. *It never used to be this way!



It might be a reason, but I doubt it's significant.

Driving on the roads now is way different to driving on the roads 25 years ago. Mostly because of the traffic volume which isn't created by cyclists.


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## Sara_H (1 Dec 2013)

400bhp said:


> Thanks for linking.
> 
> Back roads too - no excuse from drivers
> 
> ...


I've looked at other routes and they all present difficulties. I'd like to avoid Summerfield street on the way home as its backed up all the way, I have to filter the full length and often have drivers coming out of side roads or just pulling into my path inexplicably. But the alternative routes are worse if anything.


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## davefb (1 Dec 2013)

400bhp said:


> It might be a reason, but I doubt it's significant.
> 
> Driving on the roads now is way different to driving on the roads 25 years ago. Mostly because of the traffic volume which isn't created by cyclists.


thats what I couldn't understand when I had the epiphany of "hang on, why am i sat in the q looking at a cyclist passing me, that could be me!".. why don't more people get this ??

the cars are the traffic, if there were less cars, more bikes, it'd be better for ALL...


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## Stonechat (1 Dec 2013)

Abusive drivers four times today, all I was doing was avoiding poor quality parts of road.

Think they should be for ed to ride bikes


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## Maverick Goose (1 Dec 2013)

You could respond with..."oo taught you to drive? Evel Knieval?" or "vorsprung durch technik kartoffelfresse" [if they're driving a German made car...]. Also "Chelsea's that way mate!" [if they're driving some massive great Rambo wagon]...


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