# To flag or not?



## BentMikey (24 Sep 2008)

What's your vote - do you ride with a flag, and how high is your bike? If possible, put an estimate of how high your eye level is above the road surface.

I have no flag, and my eyeline is at 87cm.


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## byegad (24 Sep 2008)

Can I vote yes and no?
On my QNT it's yes and on my Kettwiesel it's no. The seat height makes the difference for me.

Additional info, Seat heights are 8" for the QNT and 18" for the Kettwiesel.


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## andharwheel (24 Sep 2008)

I mainly use it because my girlfriend doent like me going out without it. I do have a huge windsock one which can be descibed as a training aid as cause a a lot of drag. Looks good though.


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## NickM (24 Sep 2008)

Not on any of the recumbents I ride on the road: Kingcycles (seat height 47.5cm) and a Fujin SL II (33cm).

If I rode a low trike, I think I would.


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## Auntie Helen (24 Sep 2008)

I tend to have two flags on my Trice Q - well, I have two slots in the seat frame for flags, might as well use them both.

I think the feeling of safety they give to me is more in my mind than in reality as I think I'm seen by others anyway, but I do find they are fairly easy to spot when Uncle James is ahead/behind - they're the first thing I usually see. I'd feel a bit uncomfortable going out without them, perhaps just because I'm used to them though.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (24 Sep 2008)

If i rode a recumbant i would fly the flag definatly, drivers arnt even looking for upright bikes they will drive over a Recumbant and not even notice or care probably.


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## ufkacbln (24 Sep 2008)

Hurricane - Yes
Catrike - Yes
Street Machine - No


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## BentMikey (24 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> If i rode a recumbant i would fly the flag definatly, drivers arnt even looking for upright bikes they will drive over a Recumbant and not even notice or care probably.



Funnily enough that's what most people think, but experience proves the opposite. I can guarantee you that a shed load more people will see me on my recumbent than you on your upright. I feel considerably less safe on the upright than I do on the hurricane sans flag.


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## yenrod (24 Sep 2008)

If I rode a rec. id ride one !

They just go with the situation !!!!!!


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## byegad (24 Sep 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> If i rode a recumbant i would fly the flag definatly, drivers arnt even looking for upright bikes they will drive over a Recumbant and not even notice or care probably.



Totally not so. Drivers give far more room to recumbents precisely because we do not register as a normal bike. So they pay us a lot of attention.

When I was riding both DFs and 'bents my initial reaction on going back to a DF after a few 'bent days was shock at how close cars pass you by and how little room I got for and aft on a DF in slow moving traffic.

It's because DFs are familiar and therefore easily dismissed that drivers make so little allowance for the cyclist. After all the lack of height of a Ferrai in traffic means it IS noticed far more than, say, a Fiat Punto, made by the same company.


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## tdr1nka (24 Sep 2008)

I ride with a flag, but I have ridden without it and not noticed any ill effect.


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## BentMikey (24 Sep 2008)

yenrod said:


> If I rode a rec. id ride one !
> 
> They just go with the situation !!!!!!



On the other hand they wipe out much of the aero advantage. Can't be having that.


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## bonj2 (24 Sep 2008)

that must be SO unaerodynamic! surely that defeats the whole point of a recument. I've voted no.


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## BentMikey (25 Sep 2008)

p.s. I should have mentioned that there's only point in voting if you actually ride a recumbent yourself, rather than voting to say what you would do if you owned a recumbent.


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## arallsopp (25 Sep 2008)

Nope for me. SMGTe is plenty high enough to be seen, and like others have said, drivers seem to be far more cautious going round me than they were on my wedgie.

I've always thought of a flag as a long distance marker rather than anything else. I can't see how you'd implement a flag to ensure suitable overtaking space. Horizontally, maybe?

I briefly had a flag from the London freewheel, but it tended to cover my rear light so I took it off again. My rear light is clipped into the top of the seat cushion, so its actually a fair amount higher than that on most DFs. Result is I'm often spotted earlier by cars in the dark, and you can hear the revs drop as the car goes "what-the-hell-is-that-thing-its-too-tall-for-a-bike-but-too-short-for-a-horse-maybe-its-a-policeman."

I guess motorists are just like horses in that regard. If they see something they don't understand they assume its a predator. 

I don't ride a lot of dipped / undulating single lanes, so I'm less worried about disappearing between humps, and there are enough horse riding schools around here to make flags a little irresponsible for the reasons above.


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## Riding in Circles (25 Sep 2008)

I tend to use one as I ride a lot of country lanes but not always, I will try without this afternoon and report back.


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## NickM (25 Sep 2008)

If you live!


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## arallsopp (25 Sep 2008)

Catrike. Please don't die just yet.


Unless you've already posted my pedals, in which case, do as you must


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## Amanda P (25 Sep 2008)

Right now, now flag.

After the clocks go back, and I have to ride home from work in the dark, I'll put the flag back on.

What you're saying about recumbents getting more space is true - if drivers can see that it's a recumbent. In the dark on a fast road, the driver sees a rear light, a reflective jacket and not a great deal else. 

Put on a fluorescent flag, with more reflective stuff on it, waving about six feet in the air above it as well, and it seems to make drivers take a second look at it and be a bit wary of it.


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## Fiona N (25 Sep 2008)

arallsopp said:


> I guess motorists are just like horses in that regard. If they see something they don't understand they assume its a predator.



LOL

I used to use a flag on the Windcheetah but now the rear light bracket means it doesn't fit and I've never got around to fitting the new fitting 
The flag bracket on the rear carrier of the Speedmachine is obscured by the small rack bag (really good design on the part of HPV there) so there's no flag on the SpM either.

The SpM feels high enough not to need one and the Windcheetah has such a presence on the road that a flag seems unnecessary (plus I used to break the aerials on a regular basis popping under low barriers )


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## arallsopp (25 Sep 2008)

Uncle Phil said:


> Put on a fluorescent flag, with more reflective stuff on it, waving about six feet in the air above it as well



When considering which shapes attract the most attention, I'd say a stencil of this would be good.







Am darn tempted to cut one out of a Respro Hi Viz Black Diamond Sticker sheet, and mount it on the seat back. Black on black baby


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## Amanda P (25 Sep 2008)

On the visibility front, a couple of years ago I had some tinsel on the sticky part of my flag. When Mrs Uncle Phil borrowed it and I overtook her in my van on the way home from work I was astonished at how attention-grabbing the tinsel was in the headlights.

The downside is that tinsel _really_ freaks out horses.


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## BentMikey (25 Sep 2008)

With my tailbox, reflective/neon jackets are completely hidden from the rear, and mostly hidden from teh front by the tiller and my legs.


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## PaulM (26 Sep 2008)

*Short flag for now*

I think for urban riding it's a good idea to have a flag which is at the height of car windows. Then car drivers know where you are when they are along side you, and might see you when reversing. On the Speed I am conscious that my head is (just) below the top of car doors. I'm using the top half of an ICE flag. The flag is only about 4" wide and relatively stiff, and doesn't flap much, so probably doesn't add much air resistance. Also it is reflective which should help with night time use.

On undulating country lanes there may be a case for a longer flag to be visible in the dips.

Even without a flag, there is more chance of being seen and noticed on a recumbent trike then on an upwrong.


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## Riding in Circles (26 Sep 2008)

I had no problem without the flag even though I was riding mainly in town among traffic, (I had a Schlumpf drive to deliver), but saying that I think a flag is a good idea when in traffic as you are often hidden by other vehicles.


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## betty swollocks (29 Sep 2008)

I have a Hurricane and I used to ride with fluorescent streamers: purple, pink, blue, orange, green etc. on the end of a whip aerial. My gay next door neighbour asked me out on the basis of this because they apparently, are the mardi gras colours.
The streamers/whip aerial came off pretty damn quick and I have not perceived any diminution of my visibility to drivers.


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## col (29 Sep 2008)

I dont use a flag on my bike,but i can see the benefit a low recumbant or trike would get from it.


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## BentMikey (29 Sep 2008)

Col, your opinion, whatever it is, is useless and irrelevant to the poll, since to the best of my knowledge you don't have a recumbent.


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## col (29 Sep 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Col, your opinion, whatever it is, is useless and irrelevant to the poll, since to the best of my knowledge you don't have a recumbent.




Sorry i didnt realise it was for recuments only,i thought it was just a safety question


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## BentMikey (29 Sep 2008)

Oh, I'm sorry I came across so harshly, you didn't deserve that. It's no excuse, but I've got manflu and am feeling very tired and grumpy and had a busy weekend of work.


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## col (29 Sep 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Oh, I'm sorry I came across so harshly, you didn't deserve that. It's no excuse, but I've got manflu and am feeling very tired and grumpy and had a busy weekend of work.




No problem,i understand,


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## mickle (30 Sep 2008)

Nope. Windcheetah. All that extra weight and drag of course but more to the point; _desperately_ uncool.


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## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

Cunobelin's flags look cool, at least to me. I still don't want one though, as I don't think it'd aid my visibility at all, and brings lots of drag along.


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## Night Train (30 Sep 2008)

I've not had a flag on the KMX yet. Then again I haven't gone out in any traffic as I am still test riding and sorting messed up gears and brakes. A nearly new Trice or similar feels more tempting as I go.


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