# Brompton handlebar heights?



## windmiller (17 Mar 2016)

While sitting on a 2 speed S type brompton in a local bikeshop - I was suprised how low the bar was, considering the seat was not at full extension. I know the S type has the lowest bar height but was led to believe not the shortest stem. This bike had a shorter stem than a M type. Visually this was obvious and I was told this to be the case by the assistant. Perhaps earlier a little mix and match had been peformed that neither of us was aware of.
My last brompton was a mark 3 over 10 years ago and the reach was shorter. The weight of this 2 speed S type was comparable to my 3 speed Dahon Presto Lite with big apples and a rack. Probably going to take a trip down to Cycle Heaven in York soon, in order to test ride a few different brompton configurations, "I am just going outside and may be some time"


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## annedonnelly (17 Mar 2016)

You can make a slight adjustment to bring the handlebars closer to you if that's an issue. Mine's an M-type and I've tilted the bars slightly towards me to shorten the reach. The adjustment is limited by the length of the cables but it was enough for me. Dawn at Steels in Gosforth let in to that tip. Can't you test a few at Steels? Or don't they have enough options in stock?


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## windmiller (17 Mar 2016)

It's the the height difference between the saddle and the handlebar of the S type which I need to find out rather than the reach. My old metalwork teacher was Dave Yates who used to be connected with Steel Cycles, I remember he awarded me 8/10 for an adjustable wrench that I made, still have it.....he must have been feeling kind that day. Looking at their website some of the Bromptoms appear to be a few quid cheaper, so I will take a look tomorrow. Cycle Heaven state that they have 40 in stock, so if I buy from them I shouldn't have to wait.


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## annedonnelly (18 Mar 2016)

Sounds like your wrench was well made if you still have it a few years later!

Dawn is fantastic if she's in the shop - she spent ages helping me decide what to get. You can also hire for a day to try one out and they knock the hire cost of the bike price when you buy.

Cycle Heaven do seem to have lots in stock though - so many colours to choose from!


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Mar 2016)

annedonnelly said:


> You can make a slight adjustment to bring the handlebars closer to you if that's an issue. Mine's an M-type and I've tilted the bars slightly towards me to shorten the reach. The adjustment is limited by the length of the cables but it was enough for me. Dawn at Steels in Gosforth let in to that tip. Can't you test a few at Steels? Or don't they have enough options in stock?


S bars are flats. No adjustment via bit of tilt and swivel a la the M


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## 12boy (18 Mar 2016)

Is your concern that at your saddle height the bars are too low? Calhoun cycles in Minneapolis has a riser bar the suggest for S types, which does not interfere with the fold and the grips do slant back a bit so as change the hand position a bit. theirs are expensive but inexpensive riser bars are easy to find. another solution is to use an Aber Hallo which can be used to raise the bars or move them forward or backward about 2 inches. Coupled with a QR in lieu of the standard stem bolt you can move the bars quickly for a good fold. A P or M stem is shorter than an S although they don't bend forward as much. Those stems couple with low risers might work for you if you want the bars closer in but still low.


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## windmiller (18 Mar 2016)

Popped into Steel's bike shop. Dawn was not there, All things Brompton was not the bloke behind the counter's forte, though he was helpful enough. They had about 4 on display, the same models I think just different colours. The reason they were slightly cheaper was because they didn't come with mudguards which is just bloody silly. If Bromptons could take a 50mm tyre such as a big apple it would improve the ride even more.

It's the height difference rather than the reach that concerns me, won't be the end of the world if I have to settle for a M type handlebar though, thanks to all for your advice.


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## T4tomo (18 Mar 2016)

The s type has a longer stem than the m type but a lower handlebar height


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## Kell (5 Apr 2016)

This proved useful to me when looking at which bike to buy.

I ended up choosing an H type and taking the high bars off and putting on a low riser.

Essentially this would give me a bar height equal to taking the flat bars off an S and adding the same riser, but meant that I wouldn't run into problems with brake cables being too short or the bars catching on the ground when folded.

ETA - I'm having difficulty linking to the image...


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## Kell (5 Apr 2016)




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## windmiller (5 Apr 2016)

That nicely illustrates the different handlebar heights. Finally decided to buy a M6L in black from Cycle heaven in York. The choice of colour was largely down to what they had in stock and my lack of patience. I must admit I prefer the look of the S type and tried a two speed version out around the station car park. Nice and light and nippy but would be too much of a stretch for me over 10 miles - since I intend to do some longer rides and use the T bag.

Seems to fold easier than my old bike 13 years ago, and the handlebars don't feel like they will snap when I honk up a hill. Brakes are improved too as is the saddle.
The gear changers are very 3rd world, look terrible feel fragile but do the job - might upgrade the hub changer. When I weighed the brompton it came out at 26 lbs, accuracy of the scales may be in doubt but my Dahon Presto lite showed 2 lbs lighter with a rack. Brompton is easier to fold than the dahon and a smaller more secure package. Carrying is about the same, the smaller bulk and lighter weight cancelling each other out. 

6 speeds as opposed to 3, the grip shift of the dahon is better and neater. The brompton is faster but not greatly so and loses out on less than perfect ground where the small big apples of the dahon are more forgiving of road imperfections. The brompton wins for me because of the fold, the gear range, luggage capacity and product support.


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## bikegang (8 Apr 2016)

You can also apply after market mods to achieve even more variations, I like wider handlebar (600mm) for more stable steering...


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## mheuter (23 Oct 2017)

Hi, I have an S-type Brompton and use the telescopic seat post (inside e.g. 34"). Generally speaking this is ok BUT I have wondered a few times whether to convert to an M model (8.9cm height difference) or find an aftermarket handlebar (using probably an MTB bar and cut to size, as long as grips/controls fit). Questions are - if I convert to M type do I need a different stem (I think I know the answer)? Any idea what a stem costs (for some reason I can't find a website that answers the question, challenge also is that my bike is raw lacquer ... Next question, if I was to keep the existing stem and look for a 30-40 mm rise MTB handlebar, has anyone done this and where would they have sourced the right one to accommodate controls? Thanks for your help, Martin


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## simon.r (23 Oct 2017)

I posted this a while ago. 



simon.r said:


> Let the tinkering begin!
> 
> I'm playing around with the riding position and have installed a cheap handlebar: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152136992669
> 
> ...



I went the other way as it were, but can’t see why that bar or similar wouldn’t work, but you may have to alter the cable lengths. 

I’m fairly certain the stem on the S and M type is the same.


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## mheuter (23 Oct 2017)

Thanks Simon. I like the picture with the black bars, although - looking at various places on the inter web - I think the stem and bit below (term?) is different in that the stem of the S type has a bit more reach as being curved. The bit below (term??) won't matter as using the bars you show can be moved forward/backward to suit. The issue then is whether the cables need to be replaced (probably) and if that's the case would cost (a set is £78 or so) unless they can be replaced with non-OME items. Did you change cables? Martin


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## simon.r (23 Oct 2017)

mheuter said:


> Thanks Simon. I like the picture with the black bars, although - looking at various places on the inter web - I think the stem and bit below (term?) is different in that the stem of the S type has a bit more reach as being curved. The bit below (term??) won't matter as using the bars you show can be moved forward/backward to suit. The issue then is whether the cables need to be replaced (probably) and if that's the case would cost (a set is £78 or so) unless they can be replaced with non-OME items. Did you change cables? Martin



I didn’t replace the cables, as I changed to a lower bar. There’s a bit more slack, but not a significant amount.

I guess whether you need to change the cables or not depends how much higher the bars you want to fit are. You may get away with a slight increase in height with the existing cables.

As far as I can see the cables are standard, but I’ve not looked at them in detail - can anyone confirm this?

Edit - my Brompton is the 2017 model. I *think* the stem on the 2017 M and S types are the same, but a bit of Googling suggests they may have been different prior to the current model?


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## mheuter (24 Oct 2017)

Just another thought - just looking at my Brompton in 'park' position (again, S-type) - cables would not be long enough to support e.g. MTB bars as Simon.r suggests. If I was to use the bars in your link, how much space do these give you for all the controls and grips? I have Ergon grips fitted which my be slightly longer than the original foam things on a Brompton. thanks, Martin


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## Kell (25 Oct 2017)

mheuter said:


> Hi, I have an S-type Brompton and use the telescopic seat post (inside e.g. 34"). Generally speaking this is ok BUT I have wondered a few times whether to convert to an M model (8.9cm height difference) or find an aftermarket handlebar (using probably an MTB bar and cut to size, as long as grips/controls fit). Questions are - if I convert to M type do I need a different stem (I think I know the answer)? Any idea what a stem costs (for some reason I can't find a website that answers the question, challenge also is that my bike is raw lacquer ... Next question, if I was to keep the existing stem and look for a 30-40 mm rise MTB handlebar, has anyone done this and where would they have sourced the right one to accommodate controls? Thanks for your help, Martin



Hi Martin.

If yours is the older S type bike and you simply put M bars on it, you'd end up with something really high - from the image I posted earlier in the thread, the overall height of the S type clamp is the same (as near as dammit) to the height of the H type.

This in itself is not a problem when riding - other than it's really high - but would definitely require longer H type cables. The big problem is when folding as the bars would then hit the ground and the bike wouldn't fold all the way. The H type gets around this as the hinge is higher up the stem, so less stem drops away and has to fold (if that makes sense).

What I did - and I suspect this is where you're heading - is use some low-rise MTB bars, which I cut down in size a little. And added bar ends and ergonomic grips. 

This is what I started with. 







This is what I ended up with.











Folded.






As you can see in the first 'after' pic, my problem was that the cables were a little too long. I eventually got around to shortening them, but it worked perfectly. However, the reason I did it this way rather than starting with a S type was because I was concerned about the fold, and the cables.


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## mheuter (27 Oct 2017)

HI Kell, although I am working the other way 'round that's helpful. I talked to Evans in Manchester about the cable/sleeve set I'd need if I raised the bar with e.g. an MTB and that defeated them (over the phone that was). So I've booked in for Tuesday pm so that they can fathom what on earth I am trying to achieve and what cables I need (I am pretty sure I need new cables, possibly the H type cables, an MTB bar with as much rise as I can get away with and then guesstimate how much I'd have to hack off to be able to fold etc. Depending on how much they are going to charge me for labour I might just be lazy and ask them to do it (rather than me walking away with the bits and locking myself into a dark room and sort it out myself). Thanks for the pics!!!


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## Kell (30 Oct 2017)

I quite happily call myself a mechanical retard, but I managed it. It was really only the internal hub cable that was a PITA because (if memory serves) the shifter uses a 2mm allen bolt and most kits only go down to 2.5mm.

Another excellent piece of thinking by Brompton - that the right hand shifter opens with a 2.5mm allen key and the left one opens with a 2mm.


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## berlinonaut (3 Nov 2017)

mheuter said:


> Hi, I have an S-type Brompton (...) if I convert to M type do I need a different stem (I think I know the answer)? Any idea what a stem costs (for some reason I can't find a website that answers the question, challenge also is that my bike is raw lacquer ... Next question, if I was to keep the existing stem and look for a 30-40 mm rise MTB handlebar, has anyone done this and where would they have sourced the right one to accommodate controls? Thanks for your help, Martin



You'd definitively need a new stem to convert to M. You could mount an M bar to an S stem but you would not be able to fold the bike any more then, making this approach a bit useless. A new stem is about 200€ (plus bars and cables), making this expensive plus - depending from the country you are living in - they won't sell it to you but only fit it in their workshop (i.e. Brompton policy for the uk, has changed relatively recently). Looking for a used M-stem in raw laquer would be a bit of a quest therefor I'd recommend just swapping the bars for aftermarket ones. The maximum raise that would fit to an S-stem is 8-10 cm, depending from the width of the bars and if you have a rack or not. The stock bars are 53cm wide. Aftermarket bars are usually wider and can be cut to size as you like them. You would however need bars with a steep raise near the middle to leave a reasonable amount of flat space for grips, brake levers and shifters if you cut them down to Brompton standards and bars like that are not easy to find. Going to something like 56cm width makes it easier, being happy with less than the maximum possible raise does the same.
If you have no rack the maximum raise is 8 cm at 56 cm width of the bar. Been there, done that. If you have a rack with easywheels you can go for 10 cm raise at 56 cm. The Brompton M is about 9cm higher than the S, thus you end up in the same ballpark as the M w/o spending the money for a new stem.
You'll need longer cables if you raise more than maybe 2,5 cm but you can use aftermarket ones, being a bit cheaper. I'd recommend using jagwires as it really makes a difference (they are factory fitted as well since roughly ten years ago). For the 2-speed shifter the easiest is to get a cable for the H-model and cut it down as you need it. Take your time as correct cable length is critical on a Brompton and the wrong length can cause issues, some ob them not too obvious.
I got my riser bars via ebay from a seller in Germany - the brand name is "Kepu" and the model is "KP-606". Probably some asian stuff that can be found on taobao or such as well and possibly under a bunch of different names and brands (never bothered to look).The good thing about those is that they have a high as well as a steep rise (which is hard to find in combination) - I can recommend them.


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