# Visiting your doctor is bad for your health...



## rich p (6 Mar 2012)

...I went in last week for an NHS health check as fit and healthy as a 57 year old with a replacement hip can be with no obvious problems, and now have a high cholesterol level which apparently needs reducing.
The number was 7.5 which according to the stats gives me a 15% chance of heart problems in the future.
The trouble is that I eat pretty healthily as it is so the wiggle room for dieting the number down is less than a fat, fast-food noshing cheese lover.
I could cut down on the cheese, butter, red meat etc to an extent but would that be enough?
The doc offered me statins but I opted to give the diet adjustments a go for 6 months and take another look then.
Anyone had similar problems?


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## mangaman (6 Mar 2012)

I would argue - if it were me - that the numbers are not as clear cut as you've been told.

Exercise and healthy eating will reduce your risk independently of cholesterol - so your risk of getting heart problems is probably below average. (Although there are no accurate figures available that take everything into account).

Diet has, as you say, a limited effect - especially if you eat healthily anyway.

Cholesterol has a mean of 5 ish in the UK I believe, and is normally distributed.

That means if you wait a bit and have it rechecked it is statistically likely to have fallen due to regression towards the mean.

Also there are complexities alround lipid metabolism - your cholesterol level alone is pretty meaningless.

If you wanted it followed up I would have a fasting full lipid profile.

Having said that - I wouldn't check my own cholesterol at all (unless I'd had a stroke or heart attack) as I'd be in your position of weighing up decisions about healthcare based on not great stats, while feeling well and having a great life.

I'd rather not know a rough estimate of the chances of getting ill in the future - I'd rather live on in blissful ignorance doing what I enjoy (given I'm overall pretty healthy like you)

I certainly wouldn't want to take a statin from aged 57 for ever.

(All my own opinion - not NHS policy or anything)


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## Nigel-YZ1 (6 Mar 2012)

Having seen four people affected so badly by statins that they now refuse to take them I'd advise anyone being given them to ask for another option.
My mother has just had to be tested for liver problems and hepatitis, and has gall bladder problems. All of which are know side effects of taking statins.

At 73 she's got all her wits about her, but the pills made her drowsy and unable to concentrate, with no drive to do anything. 2 Weeks after stopping she's back to her former self.


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## rich p (6 Mar 2012)

Hmmm, thanks men. Food for thought - I hope that's low in fat content!

Blisful ignorance is a state I'd rather be in to be honest Mangaman! Taking pills for life is not an option I want really.


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## numbnuts (6 Mar 2012)

I have high cholesterol and on simvastatin, mainly due to heart problem in the family history, I do watch what I eat I very rarely eat red meat, in fact I took the diet a bit too seriously and to my shock I became very anaemic, so I have to be very careful with my diet now.


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## mangaman (6 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> Blisful ignorance is a state I'd rather be in to be honest Mangaman! Taking pills for life is not an option I want really.


 
I agree rich - it's not necessarily commonly admitted in the health / pharma professions, but lots of screening / overmedicalising of life has very little evidence (except in certain specific conditions like cervical cancer etc).

Generic medical "MOTs" - much beloved and encouraged by US medics - just throw up more questions than answers and create illness by causing unnecessary stress and an obsession with relatively meaningless things - and drugs prescribed for long periods on evidence based on short-term trials.

(eg if you live to 80 and go on a statin, you will have taken one for 23 years : there is no trial data about the effects of taking statins for that length of time as they haven't been around that long)

ie you could end up worrying about a fairly arbitary random cholesterol and forget you eat well and do more exercise than God knows what % of the population, giving you a very low risk of disease


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2012)

Any family history of heart thingimajigs Rich or are the relly's still supping red and eating cheese?


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## Andrew_P (6 Mar 2012)

We all have to die sometime, what real world evidence is there that cholesterol level of 7 over the next 20 years will shorten your life expectency?

I defintely think that alot of this is driven by the Pharm compaines lobbying for suggested levels to be lowered and lowered to increase the prescribing of their meds. 30 Years ago BP was you age 100 should be Systolic. Now in America they could medicate you at 125/80+ here it would be 140's so who is right?


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## rich p (6 Mar 2012)

Crax, the only heart disease that I know of in my family is an uncle who had a heart attack aged 65 and he was a heavy smoker. The hereditary aspect is the dominant factor here I suppose but Mangman's reassurance and healthy scepticism is encouraging. I'm by no means a hypochondriac but I'd rather live forever longer if I can influence that harmlessly.

I'm inclined to eat slightly more healthily (as much as is possible without buggering up my life) and see what's what in the autumn.


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## Camrider (6 Mar 2012)

Just cut down on the cheese and red meat, and replace butter with something that is not packed with saturated fats.


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## theclaud (6 Mar 2012)

Don't give up butter - life is too short. Stop worrying about it, as Mangaman says. Have proper porridge made with oatmeal for breakfast, carry on drinking the red booze,and eat even more garlic.


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## rich p (6 Mar 2012)

1753116 said:


> I'm sure you don't need telling to take TC's and TMN's advice. That aside, do you have any great love of shellfish?


 
I like clams - hirsute or otherwise
I do like shellfish (and fish in general) though. Are they good for the blood?
I eat red meat and fish largely as my dinner protein so the obvious things to reduce, if I were to try, is red meat, cheese and butter (if TC and TMN will allow me)!


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## mangaman (6 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> I like clams - hirsute or otherwise
> I do like shellfish (and fish in general) though. Are they good for the blood?
> I eat red meat and fish largely as my dinner protein so the obvious things to reduce, if I were to try, is red meat, cheese and butter (if TC and TMN will allow me)!


 
Surely the answer is to combine TMN, TC and Adrian's suggestions.

Butter, garlic, lots of red wine, sea food and veg and you're getting a lovely fish stew together and increasing your life expectancy by 37 minutes per portion (probably)


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## mangaman (6 Mar 2012)

1753143 said:


> Prawns have a reputation for increasing cholesterol but, as with all these things, it could well be bollocks.


 
No, I think it is prawns. (Sorry)


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2012)

Just cut the prawn bollocks off before you eat them.


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## Dayvo (6 Mar 2012)

Eating oily fish (mackerell, for example), high fibres (oats, beans, pulses, lentils, nuts) and plenty of fruits and vegetables will go a long way to help reduce cholesterol.

Red wine (I've heard) is a good 'anti', but in MODERATE amounts!

Or have a butcher's at this: http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/nutrition/nutrition_advice/2125/10_ways_to_reduce_cholesterol.html

Goa's good for cholesterol!


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2012)

I had a mate who was told by his doctor he had high blood pressure.. Said GP wanted him to take tablets, he didn't want to and asked for further investigation but was really quite angry/upset/anxious/sceptical about it all. He even wore a contraption to take random readings. So he'd be cycling along and suddenly start indicating left as the cuff blew up on his arm.

Turns out, that his blood pressure shot up every time he goes near a doctor/hospital, otherwise it's normal. To re-assure him I booted him off to a private consult with a cardiologist, who gently re-assured him there was nothing to worry about.

In his case, seeing his doctor really was bad for him.


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## Camrider (6 Mar 2012)

> Turns out, that his blood pressure shot up every time he goes near a doctor/hospital, otherwise it's normal.


 
That's quite a well known issue, and is known as "White coat hypertension" any good doctor should follow up readings taking in a surgery with 24 hour monitoring.


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## tyred (6 Mar 2012)

Crackle said:


> I had a mate who was told by his doctor he had high blood pressure.. Said GP wanted him to take tablets, he didn't want to and asked for further investigation but was really quite angry/upset/anxious/sceptical about it all. He even wore a contraption to take random readings. So he'd be cycling along and suddenly start indicating left as the cuff blew up on his arm.
> 
> *Turns out, that his blood pressure shot up every time he goes near a doctor/hospital, otherwise it's normal. To re-assure him I booted him off to a private consult with a cardiologist, who gently re-assured him there was nothing to worry about.*
> 
> In his case, seeing his doctor really was bad for him.


 
I had that when doing a medical for a new job. The company doctor did sign me fit to work but gave a letter to take to my own GP. Much investigation later with all sorts of monitoring devices, my GP diagnosed me with "white coat blood pressure"


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## lulubel (6 Mar 2012)

tyred said:


> Much investigation later with all sorts of monitoring devices, my GP diagnosed me with "white coat blood pressure"


 
I was diagnosed with this several years ago, after a week long stay in hospital when they said they were reluctant to discharge me until my blood pressure came down. I pointed out that my blood pressure wasn't high until AFTER I was admitted.

Some months later, I finally got a diagnosis of "white coat syndrome" and it was added to my notes.


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## slowmotion (6 Mar 2012)

Rich, something that mangaman touched on relating to blood tests. I went for one yesterday and subsequently mentioned it to someone of a medical persuasion in my family. She said that if you don't lay off all food and drink for 14 hours before the tests for cholesterol, the results will probably be entirely iffy. I had not been told to.


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## User269 (6 Mar 2012)

7.5 isn't necessarily anything to worry about. Didn't your Doc say anything about the figures for HDL and LDL, and what proportion of the total the HDL represented?


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## rich p (6 Mar 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Rich, something that mangaman touched on relating to blood tests. I went for one yesterday and subsequently mentioned it to someone of a medical persuasion in my family. She said that if you don't lay off all food and drink for 14 hours before the tests for cholesterol, the results will probably be entirely iffy. I had not been told to.


I was advised to and did fast for 12 hours, slowmo!



User269 said:


> 7.5 isn't necessarily anything to worry about. Didn't your Doc say anything about the figures for HDL and LDL, and what proportion of the total the HDL represented?


No, he didn't mention that but I could ask if it would be useful. I don't even know what it is!


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## ColinJ (6 Mar 2012)

Camrider said:


> That's quite a well known issue, and is known as "White coat hypertension" any good doctor should follow up readings taking in a surgery with 24 hour monitoring.


I get so stressed by any kind of medical procedure that I black out; literally, out cold on the nearest hard surface - gone! 

X-rays, injections, blood pressure readings, eye-tests, dental treatment ... show me a white coat on someone coming towards me carrying instruments and I'm gone. I am so squeamish that once I actually fainted when reading an online article about glandular fever. (It was the bit where the article described a spleen so swollen by viral load that it burst when the patient received a blow to his side! Oops, I'm afraid I'm slipping awa ... )


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## ufkacbln (6 Mar 2012)

I was told by the optician that I had diplopia (double vision), but had compensated for it over the years.

Now he has shown me and I know it is there, I occasionally see double!


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## User269 (7 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> I was advised to and did fast for 12 hours, slowmo!
> 
> 
> No, he didn't mention that but I could ask if it would be useful. I don't even know what it is!


 
The ratio of HDL ('good' cholesterol) to your total cholesterol should be below around 5, but ideally around 3. Causes of high HDL include _participation in endurance sports _and excessive alcohol consumption. I think it's worth checking this out as I've known a few people, especially cyclists and runners (and indeed a few boozers) who were told they had high cholesterol but had a 'safe' HDL to cholesterol ratio.


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## Fab Foodie (7 Mar 2012)

Speaking as somebody who ignored the advice over Cholesterol, was prescribed Statins in my 30s and didn't take them, imagine my shock having emergency stenting at 42 ....
None of this is straighforward.
If you don't smoke and exercise regularly and don't consume high amounts of saturated fat, there's not a whole lot else you can do. Dietary change will have a minor effect and anything that has supposed Cholesterol reduction properties like Omega 3s. oats etc will be beneficial in otherways as a bonus, so there's no downside to that. But some of us need Statins to get our Cholesterol even into ball-park. This may or may not be the case for you, but your GP is best placed to advise, or speak to another heart health professional. It's not something to be taken likely.
In my case Statin usage is the lesser of 2 evils. Without the emergency surgery I'd have died within days. Without the Statins I could well have had more surgery or been dead by now nearly 8 years later. The Statins will stave-off the chances of further intervention hopefully for years to come. Of course there's a potential downside to the statins but I'm hoping it's the lesser of 2 evils. So there's an alternative view.
The BHF produce some good info online about Cholesterol and if concerned, seek greater medical opinion rather than anecdote on cycling forum, which like helmet debates, confuse more often than clarify.

Oh, and one more thing ... as per theclaud, don't give up the butter, just moderate!


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## PpPete (7 Mar 2012)

There are also several heart function "markers" ( I forget the details) that in a normal sedentary person would have a cardiologist really worried... but in endurance athletes are just part of the body's natural adaptation. 

I think reliance on a single number without any background detail (and Rich does have a serious endurance sport background which he modestly does not mention) is probably way too simplistic.

It has reminded me that "ignorance is bliss" may indeed be the best policy. Fortunately my surgery has yet to go in for the the full "MOT" type testing.


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## Davidc (7 Mar 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> I was told by the optician that I had diplopia (double vision), but had compensated for it over the years.
> 
> Now he has shown me and I know it is there, I occasionally see double!


 
Just get an appointment before the pubs open next time.



Fab Foodie said:


> ....
> None of this is straighforward.
> If you don't smoke and exercise regularly and don't consume high amounts of saturated fat, there's not a whole lot else you can do. Dietary change will have a minor effect and anything that has supposed Cholesterol reduction properties like Omega 3s. oats etc will be beneficial in otherways as a bonus, so there's no downside to that. But some of us need Statins to get our Cholesterol even into ball-park. This may or may not be the case for you, but your GP is best placed to advise, or speak to another heart health professional. It's not something to be taken likely.
> In my case Statin usage is the lesser of 2 evils. Without the emergency surgery I'd have died within days. Without the Statins I could well have had more surgery or been dead by now nearly 8 years later. The Statins will stave-off the chances of further intervention hopefully for years to come. Of course there's a potential downside to the statins but I'm hoping it's the lesser of 2 evils. So there's an alternative view.
> ...


 
Can't fault that from FF. I'm another who after a heart attack would probably be dead fairly quickly without medication including Statins.

Like FF I'd view the BHF web site as a better place for advice than a cycling forum, and a GP who's a keen cyclist as better still.


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## GrasB (7 Mar 2012)

PpPete said:


> I think reliance on a single number without any background detail (and Rich does have a serious endurance sport background which he modestly does not mention) is probably way too simplistic.


I once got a letter after a medical that I need to see the company doctor to do something about my weight (being in the middle of the 'overweight' BMI category). I made an appointment as requested & turned up wearing shorts & tightish sleeveless top.
Dr: Mr xxx, thank you for coming.
*Dr shuffles some papers *
Dr: So... Er... um, thanks for coming. You can leave now & sorry for wasting your time.


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## Davidc (7 Mar 2012)

GrasB said:


> I once got a letter after a medical that I need to see the company doctor to do something about my weight (being in the middle of the 'overweight' BMI category). I made an appointment as requested & turned up wearing shorts & tightish sleeveless top.
> Dr: Mr xxx, thank you for coming.
> *Dr shuffles some papers *
> Dr: So... Er... um, thanks for coming. You can leave now & sorry for wasting your time.


 
A man in his 20s I worked with about 10 years ago had that experience. He was a rugby player, 2m01/ 6' 7", and was (just) obese according to his BMI. He'd filled in a life assurance form and was referred for a medical, and did much the same as you. He got normal rates.


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## dellzeqq (7 Mar 2012)

1753143 said:


> Prawns have a reputation for increasing cholesterol but, as with all these things, it could well be bollocks.


Prawn bollocks, on the other hand, are a vital component of any cyclist's diet. It's just that they're so expensive.

Rich - Range Rover driving drug dealing son-in-law (well, actually he sells pharmaceuticals to doctors) tells me that the docs are on a bit of a bonus for prescribing statins. Why not ask your doctor if he or she is getting a bit of cashback? And, yes, you can cut the levels by eating avocados, walnuts and prawn bollocks.


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## Wobblers (7 Mar 2012)

theclaud said:


> Don't give up butter - life is too short. Stop worrying about it, as Mangaman says. Have proper porridge made with oatmeal for breakfast, carry on drinking the red booze,and eat even more garlic.


 
Don't give up on butter - but do give up on margarine! The process of making marg generates trans fats which are known to increase LDL cholesterol - the bad sort. In fact, I'd avoid anything which lists "hydrogenated vegetable oil/fat" in its ingredients, because it's been made in the same way - in a chemical plant - and will also contain trans fats.


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## albion (7 Mar 2012)

The cynic in me says that the recent bonus/target doctor's pay scheme means 'tick box' health advice.
Refuse treatment and your doctor might lose a bit of cash bonus!


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## rich p (7 Mar 2012)

Thanks all.
Fab Foodie, I don't intend to base my strategy on the cycleChat forum but it's as good place as any to get some personal, anecdotal evidence.
Anything like this is necessarily contradictory from your positive personal experience of statins to Mangaman's professioinal, expert scepticism.
I shall do further research but my gut-feeling is to eat more sensibly where possible and review the situation in 6 months time.
(If the prawn bollix deep-fried in butter don't kill me first)


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## Fab Foodie (7 Mar 2012)

McWobble said:


> Don't give up on butter - but do give up on margarine! The process of making marg generates trans fats which are known to increase LDL cholesterol - the bad sort. In fact, I'd avoid anything which lists "hydrogenated vegetable oil/fat" in its ingredients, because it's been made in the same way - in a chemical plant - and will also contain trans fats.


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## PK99 (7 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> ...I went in last week for an NHS health check as fit and healthy as a 57 year old with a replacement hip can be with no obvious problems, and now have a high cholesterol level which apparently needs reducing.
> The number was 7.5 which according to the stats gives me a 15% chance of heart problems in the future.


 
high cholesterol is more to do with genetic make up than diet. plus eating food containing cholesterol is not an issue - eating bad fats is as we produce our own cholesterol


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## Fab Foodie (7 Mar 2012)

McWobble said:


> Don't give up on butter - but do give up on margarine! The process of making marg generates trans fats which are known to increase LDL cholesterol - the bad sort. In fact, I'd avoid anything which lists "hydrogenated vegetable oil/fat" in its ingredients, because it's been made in the same way - in a chemical plant - *and will also contain trans fats*.


 
Pont of order; not necessarily ... (not to open this old chesnut again) ... but fully hydrogenated fats contain no trans fats, it's *partially* hydrogenated fats that are of concern. If this point was properly made during the hysterics we might have more rain forest and less palm plantations however sustainably farmed.


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## Sittingduck (7 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> I like clams - hirsute or otherwise


 
Lol - you crack me up Rich, just made me spit apple all over my keyboard 

Tweaking the diet a little bit and seeing what effect it has, sounds like a winner


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## Wobblers (7 Mar 2012)

Fab Foodie said:


> Pont of order; not necessarily ... (not to open this old chesnut again) ... but fully hydrogenated fats contain no trans fats, it's *partially* hydrogenated fats that are of concern. If this point was properly made during the hysterics we might have more rain forest and less palm plantations however sustainably farmed.


 
Actually, yes, you're quite right. I'm forgetting my chemistry here. I stand corrected.


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## rich p (7 Mar 2012)

User13710 said:


> Yes but a spell inside what?


A spell inside witch?


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## Dayvo (7 Mar 2012)

User13710 said:


> Yes but a spell inside what?


Wookey Hole!


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## Dayvo (7 Mar 2012)

I was having a yearly medical in Sweden when I lived there and past with flying colours on everything, except for a lowish reading on calcium.

The doc asked me if I liked cheese and dairy products (which I do with a passion) and told me to eat more cheese. Nice man!


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## mangaman (7 Mar 2012)

Dayvo said:


> I was having a yearly medical in Sweden when I lived there and past with flying colours on everything, except for a lowish reading on calcium.
> 
> The doc asked me if I liked cheese and dairy products (which I do with a passion) and told me to eat more cheese. Nice man!


 
Probably duff advice though Dayvo - dietary calcium deficiency is a very rare cause of a low blood calcium - especially as you already eat a load of cheese and dairy.

Most calcium is stored in bones - and your blood calcium is regulated by various hormones.

The commonest cause of a slightly low calcium in Scandinavia would be a lack of vitamin D - which needs sun exposure to be made.

So if you have a seriously low calcium you need vitamin D - not cheese.

Although he sounds a friendlier chap than richp's - he's still altering your lifestyle for no reason with no evidence (only in a nice way).

Stick to White Russians - plenty of ice (unless your offered one by Jackie Treehorn)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...uY0Mmg&usg=AFQjCNEvAGlmh7fYqrL8vEF_UwmM16WxNQ


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## slowmotion (7 Mar 2012)

I just got back from the GP. One of the things that the blood tests threw up was a really big vitamin D deficiency. His dietary advice in front of me tells me that I should stock up on the following....margarine, butter, herrings, kippers, salmon, mackerel, pilchards, sardines, tuna, roe,and eggs. I could get to like this...a get out of jail card to eat caviar.


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## theclaud (7 Mar 2012)

slowmotion said:


> margarine


 
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Step AWAY from the marg.


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## slowmotion (7 Mar 2012)

Doctor's orders, TC. Tell you what, I'll lay off the marg. if I can forsake the canned pilchards. What say?


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## theclaud (7 Mar 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Doctor's orders, TC. Tell you what, I'll lay off the marg. if I can forsake the canned pilchards. What say?


 
Pilchards are all good, but it's your call. No one should eat margarine - ever. It should still be dyed pink, IMO. Hi-viz pink.


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## Crackle (7 Mar 2012)

Margarine is good, it has additives to make it gooder. Butter is just rancid breast milk full of those really wet fats.


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## slowmotion (7 Mar 2012)

theclaud said:


> Pilchards are all good


 
...only if you own cats...next you'll be singing the praises of pollock...


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## The Jogger (7 Mar 2012)

theclaud said:


> Pilchards are all good, but it's your call. No one should eat margarine - ever. It should still be dyed pink, IMO. Hi-viz pink.


 TC, why not, is it better to eat butter?


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## Fab Foodie (7 Mar 2012)

The Jogger said:


> TC, why not, is it better to eat butter?


 That's a whole thread of its own ....


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## The Jogger (7 Mar 2012)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's a whole thread of its own ....


 
Ok , but I guess it's better to have unsalted butter than marge?


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## Dayvo (7 Mar 2012)

mangaman said:


> Probably duff advice though Dayvo - dietary calcium deficiency is a very rare cause of a low blood calcium - especially as you already eat a load of cheese and dairy.
> 
> The commonest cause of a slightly low calcium in Scandinavia would be a lack of vitamin D - which needs sun exposure to be made.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the advice, mangaman! Wise words.

My doc here told me that I was in good shape, but had a vitamin D deficiency (as explained by your comment above), so I have been eating more oily fish: mackerel, sardines, pilchards etc.

Hopefully, maybe one day the sun will return to these parts, raising my vitamin D levels and lifting my moods!

Due to extortionate prices, White Russians are few and far between, but there is ice in abundance.


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## GrasB (8 Mar 2012)

theclaud said:


> No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Step AWAY from the marg.


Tell that to my wife. I keep having to buy butter on the way home because she buys marg.


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## rich p (8 Mar 2012)

1755195 said:


> Or take diet advice off TC.


 That amounts to which colour beer should she drink


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## theclaud (8 Mar 2012)

rich p said:


> That amounts to which colour beer should she drink


 
Actually Adrian is the FNRttC's authority on Rehydration. I only drink YELLOW beer should the BROWN beer fail to meet my rigorous quality criteria.


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## Ghost Donkey (11 Mar 2012)

I'll avoid the food side here as I have an opinion from a lot of my general reading but I'm not qualified and you are looking at your health. I've never read anything good about statins. If you do end up taking them you should supplement on co enzyme Q10, preferably not from soya sources. Avoiding statins is the best bet by far from the study results I've seen but again I know nothing and have only read a bit on the internet. As we have a food scientist talking positives about these I am more than happy to admit my general ignorance on the subject.

Overall cholesterol is not a good indicator. The doctor should offer you a test which shows HDL, the two types of LDL and also tryglicerides and should be interpreted by someone who knows the relevance of the levels and their relationship to each other. A bit of web browsing will clue you up on the kind of things they should cover. As Mangaman said, a fasted full lipid profile is the way forward. If the doctor doesn't go for it and you are concerned you should be persistent with them. They will give you it in the end. Basic cholesterol tests have been offered at a local supermarket by a margarine company whereas when you get to triglyceride levels you are talking expensive lab tests.

Vitamin D supplements are a winner for everyone. One of the few recommended generally along with omega 3 fish oils. Amounts of vitamin D vary for ethnic background and sun levels where you live. 

As a bit of food for thought and if you fancy it you may want to look at the relationship between fats in food and the body. Saturated fat and cholesterol in food doesn't directly relate to saturated fat in blood plasma although it's easy to see why this is the obvious conclusion. I'm not saying binge on lard but it' worth a read if you've got concerns over cholesterol levels and want to improve your numbers. Eggs from grass fed chickens are superb :-) I'm also a kn0b on a cycling forum who's read a bit and thinks he's an expert. These are reading recommendations as a bit of food for thought and not meant as any kind of advice on your health.


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## rich p (4 Sep 2012)

Okay, I know you've all been on tenterhooks for 6 months but the wait is finally over.
I've been eating a low-cholesterol or cholesterol-lowering diet for 6 months now which, I was informed by those in the know, had little chance of success. I had my retest last week and have today been to the quack to discuss the results. I'm happy to report that the diet seems to have worked.
The overall figure has markedly reduced, but more importantly the bad cholesterol has too. According to the way they calculate the risk factor, I am now considerably below average.
In practise it means that I don't face the prospect of being on statins for the rest of my fruitful life and it cuts me a little slack to eat the odd bit of red meat, cheese etc should the desire take me. I'll keep largely to the diet as I don't find it difficult to do anyway and certainly feel healthier anyway.
p.s. As a consequence of the diet I also lost 1.5st which is a bit of a result for climbing hills on a bike!
p.p.s. I didn't cut down my alcohol intake one jot either!


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## The Jogger (4 Sep 2012)

Well done Rich , that's great news, now share the diet with the rest of us........


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## Sittingduck (4 Sep 2012)

Nice one Rich - I expect to see you steaming up those Welsh Cols


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## Maz (4 Sep 2012)

Well done Rich! Treat yourself to a double cheeseburger!
I'm 45. I went to a 'well man' type medical checkup recently. At rest, my heartrate was mid-50s, choloesterol readings were great, but my blood pressure was on the high side. Thing is, blood pressure seems to be such a finnicky thing - even whilst my blood pressure was being taken, the doc told me not to speak in case it affected the reading!


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## rich p (4 Sep 2012)

Cheers all.
Roy, the diet wasn't very scientific and I had assumed it wasn't going to make an awful lot of difference since I ate fairly healthily anyway. I did, however, doit pretty ruthlessy as I thought there's no point in trying a halfway house. I cut out as many fats as I could including cheese, butter and ate nothing processed as far as possible. If I use any oil in cooking, and it's surprising how little you can get away with even for frying or making your own oven chips, it's olive or rapeseed. I make a mean chicken curry for 2 which uses 1 tbs of oil in total.
Very little red meat - maybe lean steak or pork once a week. No lamb as the fat is integral.
Chicken or fish most nights - I'm not a fan of vegetarian food.
Salad for lunch with tinned mackerel or sardines in brine or spring water.
Wholemeal bread. Benecol if necessary. Skimmed milk.
Oh, red wine in industrial quantities.
No biscuits or cakes, chocolate or the like but I rarely ate those anyway.
Maz - a one off BP test is pretty unreliable. You need a 24 hour test to be sure as too many variables can affect one reading including white coat syndrome.


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## ColinJ (4 Sep 2012)

rich p said:


> Maz - a one off BP test is pretty unreliable. You need a 24 hour test to be sure as too many variables can affect one reading including white coat syndrome.


Too true! During my recent stay in hospital, I had that experience with various tests ...

Nurse: _"Stop holding your breath!"_

Me (breathing out, then in again): _"Pardon?" _

Nurse: _"Every time that I try to measure your blood oxygen saturation level with this meter, you tense up and stop breathing!" _

I hadn't noticed that I was doing it, but she was right!


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## slowmotion (4 Sep 2012)

Splendid news rich. Well done.


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## fossyant (6 Sep 2012)

rich p said:


> Oh, red wine in industrial quantities.


 
Oh good !  That's me sorted !


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## Blue Hills (8 Jun 2013)

Interesting thread Rich.

Any update?

Reason I ask as I cycled to the library the other day and took the opportunity of a free check being carried out by the local health bods.

Cholesterol came up on the high side (though since I wasn't given any warnings I take it not desperate) - after a bit of research later I found out that these sorts of tests should be done after an extended fast so I have no idea if it really means anything at all.

Like you Rich I tend to think my existing diet is pretty reasonable.

May pop along to the doc for a somewhat more authoritative test.


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## pawl (9 Jun 2013)

numbnuts said:


> I have high cholesterol and on simvastatin, mainly due to heart problem in the family history, I do watch what I eat I very rarely eat red meat, in fact I took the diet a bit too seriously and to my shock I became very anaemic, so I have to be very careful with my diet now.


I was prescribed Statins as waiting for a heart op.Had some side effects,flu like symptoms.Spoke to my chemist and she has had good reports by people using Benecol products .Suggest you try statins. My next door neighbor has been on Statins for several years without any side effects.


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## vickster (9 Jun 2013)

Muscle pain (like flu) is quite a common side effect of statins, called rabdomyelisis, some seem to cause this less

Statins can't be taken if you have any sort of liver disease too


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## subaqua (9 Jun 2013)

1753143 said:


> Prawns have a reputation for increasing cholesterol but, as with all these things, it could well be bollocks.


 being as my lunch for the last 4 or so months has been prawns , olives in anchovy/olive oil and sundried and semni dried tomatoes with an organic olive bread with flora proactiv i think it might well be bollox . my cholesterol was above 7 and i reduced cheese intake , red meat, liver and carb rich alcohol . i did increase red wine intake tho !!


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## albion (10 Jun 2013)

On the subject of pain has anyone any understanding of sudden chronic 'getting off you bike' stomach orientated pain ?
I got checked out last time it happened with nothing found apart from mention of a sign of a weak stomach lining.

Both occurrences are exactly the same happening very very short after getting off my bike. 
I'm expecting it to subside at the same rate as last time approx 2 years ago which means 3 days later I can only sit on a high chair, can hardly get out of bed or bend down to put socks and such like on.

It is right hand hip, stomach and back. Non coincidentally I have not had a drink for over 2 years too so its almost tempting enough to drive me back to drink. All thing going like last time I'll be OK in 7 or so more days.


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## rich p (10 Jun 2013)

Blue Hills said:


> Interesting thread Rich.
> 
> Any update?
> 
> ...


Hi BH, Without the fast it may be fairly meaningless as far as I know. I have relaxed the diet slightly but I have no idea what effect that has had, since I've not been tested again. I'm not at all sure if I will have another test in truth. I'm glad I had the wake-up call but now that the diet change has worked I'll probably just carry on in blissful ignorance.
As you probably saw early in the thread, there are some qualified people who don't rate the cholesterol test, or the algorithm they use to apply it individually, and many more on the web who don't approve of statin use. You take a personal choice!


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## Andrew_P (10 Jun 2013)

albion said:


> On the subject of pain has anyone any understanding of sudden chronic 'getting off you bike' stomach orientated pain ?
> I got checked out last time it happened with nothing found apart from mention of a sign of a weak stomach lining.
> 
> Both occurrences are exactly the same happening very very short after getting off my bike.
> ...


Sorry liked instead of reply. How low down is it? Could it be a Hernia?


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## albion (10 Jun 2013)

No sign of any bulge. And that was discounted at the hospital/docs last time.

Now the pain has centralised it strangely feels as much lower back as does stomach.
Pressing the right low back I get a clicking alongside the pain. (Maybe we can all make a click?)


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## Blue Hills (10 Jun 2013)

many thanks for the reply Rich P - appreciated.


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## albion (10 Jun 2013)

Further on from that, putting on socks or with any bending forwards the pain is felt in the right stomach. But getting onto a bed or with any twisting of the torso the pain is primarily in the right low back past the top of the thigh.


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## Andrew_P (10 Jun 2013)

I would say go back to the doc's could be lots of things, if its painful your body it trying to tell you something


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## Profpointy (10 Jun 2013)

[quote="<snipped> .... number was 7.5 which according to the stats gives me a 15% chance of heart problems in the future. <snipped>]


Not at all wishing to naysay the quack, much less give you advice, but "15% change of heart problems in the future" ?
Is that actually good or bad compared to the "going rate" as it were, or even the going rate for non-smokers who aren't lard-arses? Quite a lot of blokes (especially) have "heart trouble" of some sort - more than 15% would be my guess - and it is a guess. It's worth checking what these bald numbers actually mean

All that said, quack might be right, and in any case, healthier diet is a "good thing" regardless.


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## rich p (11 Jun 2013)

albion said:


> No sign of any bulge. And that was discounted at the hospital/docs last time.
> 
> Now the pain has centralised it strangely feels as much lower back as does stomach.
> Pressing the right low back I get a clicking alongside the pain. (Maybe we can all make a click?)


This thread isn't about pain; it's about the painless threat of cholesterol.


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## Blue Hills (11 Jun 2013)

Fair point RichP - thought I'd better say this in case anyone accuses you of insensitivity - best if threads like this (it's not the cafe) stay on topic if they are to be useful to folk - I think a new thread on the other issue (I'm not belittling it) might be an idea.


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## Andrew_P (11 Jun 2013)

Profpointy said:


> [quote="<snipped> .... number was 7.5 which according to the stats gives me a 15% chance of heart problems in the future. <snipped>]
> 
> 
> Not at all wishing to naysay the quack, much less give you advice, but "15% change of heart problems in the future" ?
> ...


These percentage terms and statistics really irritate me, they are all relative to the overall risk and are often used to lobby government to reduce the level at which prescriptions are issued and the biggest selling drugs are statins and blood pressure tablets. If you have lots of risk factors including heart disease then sure statins may be useful but if are marginally over the "levels" then the % outcomes become nonsensical. Then you have to weigh up the downsides to the medication vs. the outcomes.


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## albion (11 Jun 2013)

rich p said:


> This thread isn't about pain; it's about the painless threat of cholesterol.


It ain't about 'doctor thread' police either.

But yep, we well know that media and quacks and all the salesmen love to run with treating symptoms, not the cause. 
Not a biggy in the scheme of things though.


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## rich p (11 Jun 2013)

albion said:


> It ain't about 'doctor thread' police either.
> 
> But yep, we well know that media and quacks and all the salesmen love to run with treating symptoms, not the cause.
> Not a biggy in the scheme of things though.


 
I'm not that concerned but a thread about cholesterol is a useful reference at any time - note Blue Hills resurrected it on that basis.
If you have a completely different issue and what some of CC's expert input, I just thought that starting a new specific thread might serve you better.


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## albion (11 Jun 2013)

Thanks or the helpful input guys. 
My doctor was fairly certain, and probably right, that it was caused by sudden twisting at hip and leg (I forgot the scientific term he used). I've also decided to force/train myself to dismount the bike other side, as awkward and alien as it currently seems.

Whatever happened to that study that showed old people with low cholesterol died twice as often from a heart attack as did old people with high cholesterol?


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## Hip Priest (11 Jun 2013)

My cholesterol was 13.5mmol/l. 7 is nothing. MTFU...etc!


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## albion (11 Jun 2013)

Obviously this someone is beefing about cholesterol but an interesting read non the less.
http://blog.grasslandbeef.com/debunking-the-cholesterol-myth/

I'll be back on my bike in a couple of days. 
Cycling at least, comes with conclusive proof of benefits.


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