# More bums on saddles: why Britain's cycling clubs are thriving



## ianrauk (21 Sep 2011)

from the Guardian


*More bums on saddles: why Britain's cycling clubs are thriving*
A growing number of clubs are challenging the elitist stereotype and welcoming riders of all abilities








Leicestershire's friendly club at the Dunwich Dynamo, an overnight ride from Hackney to Dunwich in Suffolk. Photograph: Ian Nutt


With almost 82,000 members, Britain's cycling clubs are growing. Fuelled by the general increase in bums on saddles across the UK as a whole, they've seen their membership increase by over 10% in the last couple of years.

Despite finding their roots in the growth of socialism at the beginning of the last century, cycling clubs have suffered a reputation among new riders as being elitist and snobbish. Not entirely unfounded fears of being left behind, having the wrong clothing or having your bike laughed at have led to many a cyclist riding alone, rather than joining a club run.

However, a growing number of clubs are challenging the stereotype. Welcoming to riders of all abilities, these inclusive clubs have grown far more quickly than the national trend.

Leicester Forest CC is a good example. Formed in 1923 they were initially christened the Keir Hardie cycling club. It is unknown whether the founder of the Labour party ever rode a bike in Leicester, but he would probably approve of the approach of "Leicestershire's friendly club".

The club run, that staple of all cycling clubs' activities, has long been a bit intimidating to the uninitiated. Leicester Forest have tackled this by running a monthly, slower paced "first-timers' ride" alongside the normal weekly ride. Existing club members act as friendly guides to newcomers and non-members, giving many their first chance to try a group ride. The successful initiative has increased numbers on all club runs and inevitably boosted profits at the local cafe stop.

Looking beyond traditional club activities, Forest members have contributed to many cycling projects in Leicester, getting involved in bikeability training, acting as guides for the Sky Ride Local initiative and playing an active role in the local Critical Mass - recruiting more new members in the process.

Andy Sakeld, cycling coordinator at the city council, believes that outward looking clubs such as Leicester Forest are important to sustain the growth in cycling that the city has seen. "We've seen a 130% increase in riders on our streets since 2005. Clubs that welcome riders of all abilities can help those new cyclists form a longer term interest in the sport."

The club's willingness to embrace social media has also had a part to play in a doubling of Forest's previously static membership over the last twelve months. "The majority of our promotional effort has been focused on the internet – our website, Facebook page and Twitter feed," says club president, Ian Nutt, "there is almost a direct relationship between the amount of effort we put in to those and the amount of interest generated."

Another club that is currently thriving is North Cheshire Clarion. Formed by a group of friends, the club has seen its membership grow to 150 in just two years. Activities have been developed to suit all abilities in a very supportive atmosphere. The club motto is "We never leave a rider behind" - and they don't.

"We were pushing the inclusivity agenda right from day one," says founder member Giles Perkins. "It does work, we have Saturday rides that get people used to riding in groups, following a wheel and learning the basic craft, this then leads them on to the longer Sunday rides."

The club is a member of the National Clarion – an organisation that can be traced back to the Socialist Cycling Club of 1894. With 1,000 members nationwide, the politics might not be so important now, but it still clings to its values of inclusion and fellowship. It's a philosophy that has helped West Lothian Clarion to build a thriving kids club. After making the commitment to take part in British Cycling's Go-Ride initiative, they have trained up coaches, a welfare officer and trail leaders. In doing so, the club has attracted 50 members between the ages of six and 15, helping to secure the strength of the club into the future.

Andrew Chaston, British Cycling's national development manager for clubs and volunteers believes the clubs have long been the lifeblood of the sport and is confident of their future:

"As more people take to riding a bike regularly, we are seeing club membership grow, particularly in those clubs where taster sessions for newcomers or activities for children are on offer. Things are evolving. Many of our affiliated clubs organise rides and activities for all levels of cyclist and in turn more people are going on to take up bike racing. The simple enjoyment that comes with riding a bike with like-minded people can't be underestimated and is proving a real boon to the whole sport."
​• Andy Ward is a GP, medical educator and mad keen cyclist who lives in Leicester.


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## wiggydiggy (21 Sep 2011)

I've never really had dealings with any clubs so dont know if this 'attitude' is prevalent in my area, Ive certainly looked at joining a couple that seemed friendly enough on their websites but have to admit I'm a bit of a solo cyclist when I go out.

I'd happily do more events though if there were more in my area.


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## Globalti (21 Sep 2011)

My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.


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## 2PedalsTez (21 Sep 2011)

Globalti said:


> My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.



+1


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## Hilldodger (21 Sep 2011)

_Andy Sakeld, cycling coordinator at the city council, believes that outward looking clubs such as Leicester Forest are important to sustain the growth in cycling that the city has seen. *"We've seen a 130% increase in riders on our streets since 2005*. Clubs that welcome riders of all abilities can help those new cyclists form a longer term interest in the sport."

_Really? I don't think so._
_


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## funnymummy (21 Sep 2011)

Globalti said:


> My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.



Ditto..Although I'm in a club, I hardly ever get to ride out with them, I can no longer join the weekday rides, the Saturday ones clash with #3's cycle coaching, so the only day left is Sunday & I only get one free Sunday a month


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## Red Light (21 Sep 2011)

The thing that surprised me was how many people were lining the roadsides in the Tour of Britain and particularly the number who were dressed in lycra. I didn't know there were that many lycra wearing cyclists out there.


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## cyberknight (21 Sep 2011)

Globalti said:


> My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.



+3 

My local club has runs , a social meet and TTs in the week i cant make no matter what shift i am on .The Sunday run is ok assuming i havbe the spare time as i normally only make it twice a month.

Family comes first .


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## Jonathing (21 Sep 2011)

I think the lyra'd hordes are becoming more aware of the existence of clubs. Whenever I ride a sportive in club kit I get asked about the club and how one joins. The first question people ask is if we're a friendly lot, which seem silly, I'm hardly going to say "no, we strangle babies at the tea stop" if I'm a member. There is the impression certainly that clubs are elitist, I certainly thought so before I joined but it's a suck it and see situation the only way to find out we're not is to come along. We seem to have nearly doubled out (regular riding) membership in the last year chiefly though people seeing the hallowed red white and blue out on the roads of Hampshire and West Sussex.


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## Bman (21 Sep 2011)

My local club's rides never suit me either. They never start at work or finish at my house!


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## funnymummy (21 Sep 2011)

Jonathing said:


> seeing the hallowed red white and blue out on the roads of Hampshire and West Sussex.



Ooo what club do you ride with, i'll give a wave next time I see a red & blue jersey!


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## Willo (21 Sep 2011)

Globalti said:


> My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.



This is why I continue to be a billy no mates solo rider. The beauty of cycling is that I can get out for a quick, early spin on a sat/sun without losing much time with my family. Saying that, I'm considering joining a local club next yr,even just to do a sun ride with them say once a month as a stepping stone to some sportives or even something like L2P.


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## Fab Foodie (21 Sep 2011)

Globalti said:


> My problem with local clubs is the timings of rides; family commitments simply don't coincide with club run times.



The simple answer to this is to start your own group, then you can determine when to have rides, you'll find others in the same situation, The power of Facebook and forums helps with communication.
We did this with Abingdon Freewheeling and it's going and growing very well.

I think clubs that offer the more 'social' and genteel side of cycling will prosper alongside 'Sporting' clubs.


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## Kenny Gray (21 Sep 2011)

Just joined a new club through a mate of mine that falls into the riders of all abilities and have got to admit i would not have joined a pure racing cycle club because of my fitness and lack of group riding.
Been out about 3 times so for and really enjoyed it the group has riders that compete in all disciplines of cycling and abilities. the rides are at the moment about the 30 mile mark and we usually av 15-16 mph ride time.
Great bunch they throw in some wee sprints along the way but always regroup after and wait for everyone to get back together.
I know this is not what everyone wants from a club but this has really got myself and others into cycling some distances and pace that we could not have done on our own or with a pure racing club.
BTW the furthest i cycled before was 39 miles did the Pedal for Scotland with Glasgow Green Cycle Club and managed 87 miles Glasgow to Edinburgh and back home to Carluke, added with a lot of help from the group.


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## ColinJ (21 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> The simple answer to this is to start your own group, then you can determine when to have rides, you'll find others in the same situation, The power of Facebook and forums helps with communication.


When my regular cycling partner emigrated a few years back, I wanted to find other people to ride with but I didn't feel able to make enough of a commitment to join a conventional club, so instead I joined Audax UK and I also started organising my own forum rides. It has worked out well for me.

Some CycleChat members are regulars on my rides, and some I only see once a year or so but that's fine. 

If you are like me and don't feel suited to formal club membership, I'd certainly recommend audax events and forum rides. You can just take part when it suits you.


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## 400bhp (21 Sep 2011)

ianrauk said:


> Another club that is currently thriving is North Cheshire Clarion. Formed by a group of friends, the club has seen its membership grow to 150 in just two years. Activities have been developed to suit all abilities in a very supportive atmosphere. The club motto is "We never leave a rider behind" - and they don't.
> 
> "We were pushing the inclusivity agenda right from day one," says founder member Giles Perkins. "It does work, we have Saturday rides that get people used to riding in groups, following a wheel and learning the basic craft, this then leads them on to the longer Sunday rides."



My club 

I don't go out with them often, but IMO it's a great club for beginners. Their website is user friendly too.


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## brockers (22 Sep 2011)

I've done the club thing and really don't like riding with more than three or four people now. The groups just got too big, and I got fed up with all the waiting around and endless stops for mechanicals.


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## 007fair (22 Sep 2011)

Never been in a club so far but only this week went along to a local Triathlon club with the aim of being able to swim more than 2 lengths Speaking to the members they have a number of club rides and I think it would be great motivation in the winter.	If the times work out I'll give it a go. My cycling is better than my swimming!


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## Sonofpear (22 Sep 2011)

Like a few have already said it's tough with family commitments and work. I have been interested in joining my local club, More for the midweek training runs they do than the weekend longer rides, but timings just don't work out well for me. So for now I'm riding solo


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## dellzeqq (22 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> I think clubs that offer the more 'social' and genteel side of cycling will prosper alongside 'Sporting' clubs.


I'm sure you're right - and these clubs are the one that matter. By the time a cyclist (usually a man) has got to the point of wearing lycra and zipping along at fifteen miles an hour or more, the deed is done. Getting people out on bikes that they might otherwise leave in the shed, and giving them confidence, not so much with regard to safety, but in the 'ordinariness' of cycling is a marvellous thing.

And, if I may say so, the Abingdon Freewheelers website is a model of how these things should be
http://www.abingdonfreewheeling.org.uk/page1.html


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## Wankelschrauben (22 Sep 2011)

I just turned up and went out with a club one day.

It is like any sport really, you can go so far by yourself but if you join a club, a wealth of knowledge and possabilities become available.

I do however think the reason behind such an increase are incorrect.

I and many others I know did not begin cycling for the fun of it, we begun cycling because we were forced out of our cars by rising fuel costs and the totally pathetic, unreliable public transport that is more expensive to use than running the cars we were forced out of.

Enjoying the sport of cycling was merely a bonus.


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
Its a no from me simon.
Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.


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## Dora (22 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> My club
> 
> I don't go out with them often, but IMO it's a great club for beginners. Their website is user friendly too.



I must admit I really like that website, but it doesn't give me the impression it's a good club for beginners. I considered making contact to join their Saturday rides, but I fear I'd be told "come back when you're faster"



apollo179 said:


> The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
> Its a no from me simon.
> Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.



+1

I'm often out on the road at the same time as cycling clubs in my area. As a ditzy female in my late twenties, the packs of MAMILs, (and often OAPILs) I encounter just look scary. Plus, the phrase "no one gets dropped" only says to me "we won't drop you, but we'll wait at the top of every hill rolling our eyes, rib you for being slow and call you names when you think we can't hear"....but that could be a girl thing.
The Ladies rides I've been on have been too slow and some not long enough to warrant getting the bike out for.

Faced with no middle ground I'm, left with riding alone, or not riding at all.


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## Dave Davenport (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
> Its a no from me simon.
> Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.



And your basing your opinion of cycling clubs on how much actual experience of them?


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## Dave Davenport (22 Sep 2011)

Our membership has gone from 60 to 200 in the last five years.


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## Wankelschrauben (22 Sep 2011)

Dora said:


> I must admit I really like that website, but it doesn't give me the impression it's a good club for beginners. I considered making contact to join their Saturday rides, but I fear I'd be told "come back when you're faster"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seriously, a social level wouldn't care less if they had to wait at the top of a hill, it's rest time for the majority and you'll find riders trickle in up the hills anyway.

Only the wannabe A group riders who can't quite make the grade higher up would dare say anything, these are the rim jobs that are usually blowing out their arse holes anyway and are actually thankful for the rest themselves.

If the rides you've done aren't enough, go in the next group up.


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## snorri (22 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> Only the wannabe A group riders who can't quite make the grade higher up would dare say anything, these are the rim jobs that are usually blowing out their arse holes anyway and are actually thankful for the rest themselves.



The appeal to me of solo cycling has just increased ten fold.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
> Its a no from me simon.
> *Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.
> *



... and the rest of the world breathes a sigh of relief .....


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> ... and the rest of the world breathes a sigh of relief .....



There speaks a club member - (the snidy club )


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## 400bhp (22 Sep 2011)

Dora said:


> I must admit I really like that website, but it doesn't give me the impression it's a good club for beginners. I considered making contact to join their Saturday rides, but I fear I'd be told "come back when you're faster"



You WILL NOT be told to come back when you are faster. The Saturday rides are exactly for newcomers with little/no experience of group riding. So long as you can actually do 30 miles you will be fine. They probably average 13-15mph and remember riding in a group is easier on the cardio due to protection from the wind.

Get yourself there-one of the main group of members is a female and she will make sure you are ok.


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## totallyfixed (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
> Its a no from me simon.
> Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.



What a load of b.......cks, you obviously have little experience of club riding. My current club is very new and we have people of all ages and abilities. My last club would have a regular turn out of 70 or so on a Sunday morning with 5 different rides going out to suit all abilities. As for the older people in lycra, go and ride with them, you might just learn something.


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## 400bhp (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> The main reason against joining a cycle club is the existing members. Wadr just look at the dinosaurs on this forum ; middle aged men set in there ways , unwilling to consider other opinions and unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint. Jusy interested in macho point scoring and name calling. A club ride with these kind of people ?
> Its a no from me simon.
> Ill stick with being jonny no mates thank you very much.



Classic passive agressive behaviour.


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> Classic passive agressive behaviour.



Say that to my face and it wont be so passive.


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> What a load of b.......cks, you obviously have little experience of club riding. My current club is very new and we have people of all ages and abilities. My last club would have a regular turn out of 70 or so on a Sunday morning with 5 different rides going out to suit all abilities. As for the older people in lycra, go and ride with them, you might just learn something.


Im sure there are some nice clubs out there and yours may be one of them but your tone and your absolute dismissal of my valid reservations and your coloyrfull language dosnt totally serve to disuade me of my previously held reservations. Im sure i would learn alot from the older members of your group.


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## brockers (22 Sep 2011)

400bhp said:


> Classic passive agressive behaviour.



Quite a lot of projection in there too, I'll bet. 

Look, to anybody who's generalising about clubs because of some preconception, here's a suggestion. Be brave, join up with a club for a ride or two, and find out for yourself what they're like. You might even meet some incredibly lovely, friendly and funny people. You might also meet some who can ride bicycles very quickly. The two groups are not mutually exclusive.


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

brockers said:


> Quite a lot of projection in there too, I'll bet.
> 
> Look, to anybody who's generalising about clubs because of some preconception, here's a suggestion. Be brave, join up with a club for a ride or two, and find out for yourself what they're like. You might even meet some incredibly lovely, friendly and funny people. You might also meet some who can ride bicycles very quickly. The two groups are not mutually exclusive.



Good comment.
Good advert for bike clubs.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> There speaks a club member - (the snidy club )


Oh yes, I'm a club member, and seperately a cycle-club co-founder, it's really exclusive, we only allow people with bikes to join, yep ordinary people who have bikes, we're so exclusive an snidey we'llt anyone join, just anyboy join. We do rides from 5 miles long upwards, we ride with kids to grannies, we took two 88 y/olds on a 27 mile ride last summer. We're so exclusive we let people organise their own rides to do as they please. We prefer social cyclists, but if you turned-up to ride we'd be happy to leave you alone.


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## gb155 (22 Sep 2011)

cyberknight said:


> +3
> 
> My local club has runs , a social meet and TTs in the week i cant make no matter what shift i am on .The Sunday run is ok assuming i havbe the spare time as i normally only make it twice a month.
> 
> Family comes first .



+4


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## apollo179 (22 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Oh yes, I'm a club member, and seperately a cycle-club co-founder, it's really exclusive, we only allow people with bikes to join, yep ordinary people who have bikes, we're so exclusive an snidey we'llt anyone join, just anyboy join. We do rides from 5 miles long upwards, we ride with kids to grannies, we took two 88 y/olds on a 27 mile ride last summer. We're so exclusive we let people organise their own rides to do as they please. We prefer social cyclists, but if you turned-up to ride we'd be happy to leave you alone.



So your a club member, and seperately a cycle-club co-founder. So rather than your snidey replies dont you think it would be more fitting if you replied in an inteligent sensible way like Brockers has done. Why the snidey snidey attitude all the time.
I have offered an honest and genuine viewpoint , right or wrong, (sometimes right , sometimes wrong), it befits someone in your position to reply with some sincerity. Your snidey snidey attitude just confirms the worst felt fears of clubs.


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## KingstonBiker (22 Sep 2011)

There are a lot of polarised views in this thread. Most clubs allow you tag along for the weekend club run so you can see if it is for you. If you like it - join, if not - don't.

After thinking about joining my local club for well over a year I finally decided to give it a go a month ago. Liked it, have now joined and look forward to the Sunday rides. Some weekends I might want to do my own solo ride and I can still do it.


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> So your a club member, and seperately a cycle-club co-founder. So rather than your snidey replies dont you think it would be more fitting if you replied in an inteligent sensible way like Brockers has done. Why the snidey snidey attitude all the time.
> I have offered an honest and genuine viewpoint , right or wrong, (sometimes right , sometimes wrong), it befits someone in your position to reply with some sincerity. Your snidey snidey attitude just confirms the worst felt fears of clubs.



Let's see then....

In you're original post you've implied that I'm:

1. A Dinosaur, 
2. Set in my ways, 
3. Unwilling to consider other opinions
4. Unlikely to welcome anyone of another background or viewpoint
5. Just interested in macho point scoring and name calling
6. You don't want to ride with my kind of people

And you're expecting reasoned debate and responses from everybody?

Furthermore, rather than whinge about there being no kind of club that fits x, y or z needs, I've gotten off my arse and helped to start something that might be exactly what you're looking for, or at least an alternative to the traditional 'Racinng Club'. 
So don't give me that snidey bullshit, loose the chip from your shoulder - get out there and be part of something, have a go, make a difference!
This evening we've run a genteel 19 miles and a MAMIL fast ride, we all met at the pub afterwards, sat around the same table and shared chip butties, ale and bonhommie together. Surely that's not all bad?

There's no lack of sincerity in my responses.


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## Diggs (22 Sep 2011)

2PedalsTez said:


> +1


absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I have enjoyed adhoc run outs but as a dad, I cannot make the 9:00 Sunday required by the local bike club. 


:


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2011)

To all of you with family/tie commitments that don't fit with the traditional club 'Sunday Run' just start your own!

Find riding buddy and a suitable time to ride and do it, spread the word an you'll likely find others that want to join.
Before Freewheeling, me and a mate started to ride together on a Sunday evening about 19.30 when the small-uns were going down for the night, word spread to others with young kids and we had a regular half dozen plus meeting all through the year. I stopped 2 years ago to help get Freewheeling moving and this very evening have just had a handful of members ask if I could start Sunday evenings again, so we will! It seems there is a big opportunity for family-time friendly rides.
So, grab a mate, find a time and a meeting-place and go ride, invite your mates and thir mates and soon you'll have your own private peleton.

If you build it, they will come ....


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## apollo179 (23 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Let's see then....
> 
> In you're original post you've implied that I'm:
> 
> ...



You seem to be losing the point in your leaping to take it personally.
Point being - my perception based on my experience as cycling newbie on this forum is that the core membership seems to be middle aged male , quite intolerant , quite aggressive and not very forgiving or welcoming. Obviously there are lots of nice members and lovely cyclists etc but i am taking that styereotype of intolerant middle aged set in ways as the typical club member and on that basis , to me at least it is not very appealing. Maybe i have got the wrong end of stick and i have just been unlucky so far , or maybe ive just got some opinions that just invite adverse reaction.
Your club sounds lovely and dont self characterise yourself in my unfavourable terms unduly , the description obviously only applies where applicable.
My perception and my experience may be unpalatable to you but it is what it is and i maintain to some degree true.
My chips are a work in progress.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Sep 2011)

So you're basing your opinion of all cycling clubs purely on your perceptions of a one cycling forum.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> You seem to be losing the point in your leaping to take it personally.
> Point being - my perception based on my experience as cycling newbie on this forum is that the core membership seems to be middle aged male , quite intolerant , quite aggressive and not very forgiving or welcoming. Obviously there are lots of nice members and lovely cyclists etc but i am taking that styereotype of intolerant middle aged set in ways as the typical club member and on that basis , to me at least it is not very appealing. Maybe i have got the wrong end of stick and i have just been unlucky so far , or maybe ive just got some opinions that just invite adverse reaction.
> Your club sounds lovely and dont self characterise yourself in my unfavourable terms unduly , the description obviously only applies where applicable.
> My perception and my experience may be unpalatable to you but it is what it is and i maintain to some degree true.
> My chips are a work in progress.



I think you need to re-read and revisit the tone of your original post. The way a question is posed will determine the style of response. I chose to try and be witty, as is my way here, maybe I should have put a smiley on the end to make it more obvious.

Regarding your post above, is that I'm sorry that your perception of this place is as it is. Being a vetran of cycling forums of old, I'd have top wager that this is one of the most relaxed and easy going places. It has a wealth of experience (cycling and non-cycling) that most participants are keen to share. It _is_ predominantly middle aged and probably largely male but there are a large number of female contributors who are every part as vocal, participative and forthright as their male counterparts. Furthermore there are many contributors here whose 'sexual identity' is unknown (one can often be surprised). But one characteristic most here is a diversity of people who share a common passion for cycling of all types. I find cyling as a pastime contains a melting-pot wide of hugely different people rubbing shoulders and supportive of anyone else who rides a bike.

There's also robust debate, many here are like regulars who meet in the pub every week, know each other's politics, views and styles. There are 'in-jokes' of course, but that's the nature of any social group. Some of us only know people by their words and avatar, some meet face to face, some even got married. But most here are pretty decent everyday folk.

I completely understand the stereotype of which you speak, I'm not much one for clubs either, for much the same reasons, but stereotypes are often unfounded and whilst some clubs may seem stuiffy and elitist, there are loads of others that are not. Sometimes you need to kiss a lot of frogs ...
We tried to start a club that's not a club, it's just a framework for people to meet and ride together, nothing more. There are a lot of different clubs/organisation that are along these lines, dellzeqq organises the magnificent FNRttC series, a less stuffy 'co-operative-style' of ride you'll not find, take a look at the 'Pollards Hill' cycle group website for another take on cycle clubs. 
Tri-clubs are growing at a phenomenal rate and most have a well developed route for newbies to improve their abilities. If you want to join a sporting cycle club be perepared to work hard, it's what they're set-up for, but there also full of help and good advice for would be TT'ers or race beginners (I took a young kid called John-Paul out gently round our club training course, to show him the ropes - he's now a junior Track World Champion, but he had to start slow and sure, walk before running and the road club helped him to do that, we had no idea of his potential, he was just another new kid on club night).

You're perceptions are your reality, but I'd ask you to try top look around with a different head-on, there's a lot of good people here, there are a lot of diverse and supportive bike clubs as well as the MAMIL style that fit your stereotype. Give some a go, or organise a ride yourself.

As for chips, we all need to work on them from time to time ....


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## apollo179 (24 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> I think you need to re-read and revisit the tone of your original post. The way a question is posed will determine the style of response. I chose to try and be witty, as is my way here, maybe I should have put a smiley on the end to make it more obvious.
> 
> Regarding your post above, is that I'm sorry that your perception of this place is as it is. Being a vetran of cycling forums of old, I'd have top wager that this is one of the most relaxed and easy going places. It has a wealth of experience (cycling and non-cycling) that most participants are keen to share. It _is_ predominantly middle aged and probably largely male but there are a large number of female contributors who are every part as vocal, participative and forthright as their male counterparts. Furthermore there are many contributors here whose 'sexual identity' is unknown (one can often be surprised). But one characteristic most here is a diversity of people who share a common passion for cycling of all types. I find cyling as a pastime contains a melting-pot wide of hugely different people rubbing shoulders and supportive of anyone else who rides a bike.
> 
> ...



Thanks for reply. Im sure my initial comment was clumsily worded.
Im new to cycling and this is the only cycling forum ive ever visited and the only forum ive ever joined or participated in and i agree with you it is a good place.
As my opinions probably dont conform with the middle aged male majority i realise that i will meet a fair deal of counter views and opposition and even hostility and thats alot of the charm of the place.
You mention dellegg. My experience is the direct opposite to yours. My experience joining this place as a poorly informed nonconformist newbie is that delleqq typifies the worst king of narrow minded intolerance. Example his single post in a 38page topic# was to reply to me thus _ "weak, specious, self-serving. Don't ever try to register for one of my rides." Dont agree with someone but is this the kind of nastiness you would post and kind of using your club propriotorship as a weapon to attack others with ? I hope not. 
Anyway you probably dont see this side of him.
You will appreciate that these kind of things only reinforce the worse kind of preconceptions and fears. However as i said previously fortunately these dellegg extremes are scare and robust debate is fine and most everybody is v nice.
RRE - kissing lots of frogs - Yes i could try lots of clubs probably getting increasingly dispirited and in the end may or may not find suitable club . Or show the gumption that you have to start a club of own. Tbh if i started a club of my own i would to my shame only want certain types of people in it.
So how can i complain when middle aged guys feel the same ?
Unfortunately i dont know anyone else who cycles as cycling with a freind would suit me best and particuarly as it gets dark.
#ref - https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## apollo179 (24 Sep 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> So you're basing your opinion of all cycling clubs purely on your perceptions of a one cycling forum.


Yes.
Im basing it on what i have to base it oin which is my observations on the road and one cyclking forum.
That club members are typically middle class men.
Am i wrong ?
Stereotypes are unfrtunate but we all have them. Im sure there are clubs that do not conform to this stereotype and yours may be one of them and i apologise if ive offended you.


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## Fiona N (24 Sep 2011)

Dora said:


> I must admit I really like that website, but it doesn't give me the impression it's a good club for beginners. I considered making contact to join their Saturday rides, but I fear I'd be told "come back when you're faster"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Around here there's a local road club - Kent Valley R.C. who run an evening 10 during the summer and, by all accounts, ride at weekends too but you'd never know this from their website. I will probably join next year in order to do the evening 10's but my impression is that they're very much oriented to TT-ing. Kendal also has a sort of ad hoc group called "Kendal and District Cycling Scene" which frankly doesn't encourage me to join. Their weekend rides are too short and often require a car drive to the start and the summer evening rides are basically 20 miles split by 3-4 hours in the pub - OK if that's what you want to do but most women round here that I have spoken to about this are not interested in the pub aspect. There is the CTC but the starts are best part of 20 miles away in Lancaster and, of course, people who don't live in Lancaster drive to the start as it's too early for trains on a Sunday. Now I could turn every ride into a 150 to 200+ km by riding to the start and home at the end but the intervening miles are run too slowly - I'd be leaving home at 7.30 am to get comfortably to the start and getting home 12 hours or more later. 

Consequently I've been seriously considering starting a women's club around Kendal. There are quite a number of strong women cyclists who want a good Sunday run and the summer evening rides could be run to fit within a couple of hours (instead of the KDCS timings of 17.45 - 23.30) with a route to appeal to beginners and the less fit. My sister belongs to the Kent Ladies' and they seem to have got a very successful club going by encouraging beginners to up their game rather than just bringing together already strong riders. 

It's not that i'm anti-men but just that I know a lot of women don't like the "wait at the top of every hill rolling our eyes, rib you for being slow and call you names when you think we can't hear" attitude even if it is a perception rather than the reality


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## Fiona N (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> There speaks a club member - (the snidy club )



Why ?

I read your original post and thought pretty much the same. I've been along on a few forum rides, mainly ColinJ's, and met up with forum folk on sportives (Big G last year, for one) and Audaxes and always found them to be a great group of people. Pretty much like the folk I've met in the various clubs I've belonged to and on training camps I've attended. I do wonder about the mentality of someone who gets annoyed by something on a forum post and then generalises to all the rest of forum posters AND club riders - someone pretty immature and insecure, I'd say


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## apollo179 (24 Sep 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Why ?
> 
> I read your original post and thought pretty much the same. I've been along on a few forum rides, mainly ColinJ's, and met up with forum folk on sportives (Big G last year, for one) and Audaxes and always found them to be a great group of people. Pretty much like the folk I've met in the various clubs I've belonged to and on training camps I've attended. I do wonder about the mentality of someone who gets annoyed by something on a forum post and then generalises to all the rest of forum posters AND club riders - someone pretty immature and insecure, I'd say



Id be the first to admit to some level of insecurity especially regards cycling. Also to the fact that some of the aggressiveness and hostility and nastiness ive witnessed and experienced on this forum has negatively impacted on my perception of my fellow cyclists in general , including clubs. 
I dont say all forum posters AND club riders are like this , indeed its a tiny minority ,but the fact that it exists is enough to put me off. Youve tried some rides and have fit in perfectly - thats great im happy for you. Colinj comes across as a v nice individual.
You may think its pretty pathetic but im operating on the basis of why put you toe in the water when you know there are a few pirannas in there.
If you feel that makes me immature then go ahead and knock yourself out and call me anything you want sister.


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## snorri (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Id be the first to admit to some level of insecurity especially regards cycling. Also to the fact that some of the aggressiveness and hostility and nastiness ive witnessed and experienced on this forum has negatively impacted on my perception of my fellow cyclists in general , including clubs.
> I dont say all forum posters AND club riders are like this , indeed its a tiny minority ,but the fact that it exists is enough to put me off. Youve tried some rides and have fit in perfectly - thats great im happy for you. Colinj comes across as a v nice individual.
> You may think its pretty pathetic but im operating on the basis of why put you toe in the water when you know there are a few pirannas in there.
> If you feel that makes me immature then go ahead and knock yourself out and call me anything you want sister.


Perhaps the world of cycling and cyclists is just not for you.


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## Baggy (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Id be the first to admit to some level of insecurity especially regards cycling. Also to the fact that some of the aggressiveness and hostility and nastiness ive witnessed and experienced on this forum has negatively impacted on my perception of my fellow cyclists in general , including clubs.
> I dont say all forum posters AND club riders are like this , indeed its a tiny minority ,but the fact that it exists is enough to put me off.


Cyclists are just people - they come from all walks of life and backgrounds, and there will be negative and aggressive ones amongst them (and it's easier to be like that when you're sitting behind a computer screen). These will be outweighed by the number of generally decent, pleasant and very lovely people out there (and on here). This forum just reflects real life and people we encounter within it - don't be put off by a tiny minority or you might just be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there is a CTC group local to you, maybe try going out with them, generally their the rides are informal, will involve cake, and most CTC people seem to be very friendly and welcoming.


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## ColinJ (24 Sep 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I've been along on a few forum rides, mainly ColinJ's, and met up with forum folk on sportives (Big G last year, for one) and Audaxes and always found them to be a great group of people.





apollo179 said:


> Colinj comes across as a v nice individual.


Oh, shucks, you didn't have to ... 

(Could you remind me where to send the cheques - I've lost your addresses! )

I have only met one or two cyclists who rubbed me up the wrong way! Obviously, in any large group of people there could be some that you don't like, but there hasn't been an obnoxious rider yet out of more than 70 CycleChat members who have turned out for my forum rides.

Some clubs are definitely full-on and wouldn't suit me. I felt quite offended when a Manchester Wheelers chaingang overtook me at warp speed going up the steepest part of the local Cragg Vale climb, and not one of them responded to my cheery wave and 'hello'; in fact, nobody even looked at me. Thinking about it though - they were probably riding at their limit to stay with the fast guy on the front. They probably didn't even see me or hear me.

If you look around, you will find some good people to ride with.

As for eyes rolling at the top of climbs ... For the whole time that I've been a CycleChat member, I've been overweight and slow. I have been waited for at the top of every hill and nobody has ever complained, or rolled their eyes at me. If somebody did that, I would ask if they could read - I always make a point of saying that my rides are slow and inclusive so if somebody wasn't satisfied with that, then they clearly hadn't taken my message onboard!


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## Fab Foodie (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Id be the first to admit to some level of insecurity especially regards cycling. Also to the fact that some of the aggressiveness and hostility and nastiness ive witnessed and experienced on this forum has negatively impacted on my perception of my fellow cyclists in general , including clubs.
> I dont say all forum posters AND club riders are like this , indeed its a tiny minority ,but the fact that it exists is enough to put me off. Youve tried some rides and have fit in perfectly - thats great im happy for you. Colinj comes across as a v nice individual.
> You may think its pretty pathetic but im operating on the basis of why put you toe in the water when you know there are a few pirannas in there.
> If you feel that makes me immature then go ahead and knock yourself out and call me anything you want sister.



Apollo 179, I'm not sure I know what you want out of this debate? Maybe it might help if you give us an insight into what your insecurities are regarding cycling and cyclists? Perhaps then we could be of some use.
Maybe we could start with a clean sheet? 

Perhaps forums are not for you, or maybe others may be more to your taste, there's Bikeradar, yacf, CTC and I'm sure MTB and other forums I'm not aware of that suit you better, either way, forums change, they're just a reflection of their members at any given time. Many here are refugees from forums that became to infantile and peurile, that's maybe why we have the demographic we do, but it's ever changing.
If clubs aren't your thing, have you been on any Charity rides or similar where there are all the benefits of riding with others but on your own terms and without any commitment?
What age group are you looking for? What kind of people would you like to ride with? Maybe try and emphasise some positive attributes of what you'd like in an ideal world and let's see if anything fits.

Regarding Pirahnas and toes, don't assume everything unknown contains badness, that's not a happy way to look at the world.


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## Fab Foodie (24 Sep 2011)

Dora said:


> I must admit I really like that website, but it doesn't give me the impression it's a good club for beginners. I considered making contact to join their Saturday rides, but I fear I'd be told "come back when you're faster"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi, I've meant to respond to this earlier.

Couple of things, Tr-clubs seem to have a very high number of female members compared to 'Road' clubs. Also, Triathletes seem to come from mainly running backgrounds and are often poorer on bikes, so Tri clubs cater for a far wider range of cycling abilities than pure 'Road' clubs. It would be worth checking your local club.

Regarding the getting dropped thing, I have 2 angles on this. Firstly as a ride leader it's very hard to keep a road-group together, especially as there is ALWAYS a mix of abilities. Also, it's hard to ride to the pace of the slowest rider especially on rolling terrain. In Freewheeling we really try to have a tail-end-charlie (TEC) to remain with newbies or slower people, but again that it's hard to ride at a pace much slower than is natural. Hence it's not uncommon that the group goes away up the road and waits at the top of the hill or the next junction. They should then let you catch-breath, rest and put you to the front of the group when they restart. It's tricky and I know it's a bit soul destroying, but it's worth persevering. Like ColinJ's case, I'm old, overweight with a mild heart condition, so there are often rides where people have to wait for me, same as I have to often wait for slower riders in my group rides. It's how it is, it's good Kharma. Everybody has somebody who's slower and somebody that's faster.
Secondly and importantly, group riding makes you much faster in a short period of time, so where you struggle initially, you'll soon start to reel them in until you become as fast as the rest of the pack. There's nothing like club riding to improve speed and endurance.

Please don't give up.


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## apollo179 (24 Sep 2011)

snorri said:


> Perhaps the world of cycling and cyclists is just not for you.



Yes thats prescisely the conclusion i had already come to as well.
Jonny no mates .


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## apollo179 (24 Sep 2011)

Baggy said:


> Cyclists are just people - they come from all walks of life and backgrounds, and there will be negative and aggressive ones amongst them (and it's easier to be like that when you're sitting behind a computer screen). These will be outweighed by the number of generally decent, pleasant and very lovely people out there (and on here). This forum just reflects real life and people we encounter within it - don't be put off by a tiny minority or you might just be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
> 
> If there is a CTC group local to you, maybe try going out with them, generally their the rides are informal, will involve cake, and most CTC people seem to be very friendly and welcoming.



Did you say cake ? That throws a completely different light on things, sign me up right now.
Yes your probably right in that the forum probably reveals a harsher impression of things than if you actually attended an event. 
I wasnt saying i had any kind of a problem btw i was just saying i didnt really fancy joining a middle aged boys club particulary in light of some of the things ive been called on here for expressing an alternative opinion. 
I might take your ctc advice or try a sportive.


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## Fiona N (24 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> ...Like ColinJ's case, I'm old, overweight with a mild heart condition, so there are often rides where people have to wait for me, same as I have to often wait for slower riders in my group rides. It's how it is, it's good Kharma. Everybody has somebody who's slower and somebody that's faster.
> ...
> Please don't give up.



Besides some of us old, fat slow ones used to be young slim fast ones and learnt that's its good to be generous and patient to the old and slow as you will get to be them some day


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## Fab Foodie (24 Sep 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Besides some of us old, fat slow ones used to be young slim fast ones and learnt that's its good to be generous and patient to the old and slow as you will get to be them some day


I think that is what they call experience!


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## Wankelschrauben (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Say that to my face and it wont be so passive.




I love face to face confrontations.


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## Jezston (24 Sep 2011)

I haven't joined any formal local cycling clubs because I have found one where I like the jersey yet!


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## ColinJ (24 Sep 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Besides some of us old, fat slow ones used to be young slim fast ones and learnt that's its good to be generous and patient to the old and slow as you will get to be them some day


Okay, we can never be young again, but I'm still planning to slim down and speed up. I want to be one of the riders waiting patiently at the top of the climbs on my forum rides!


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## Fab Foodie (24 Sep 2011)

Jezston said:


> I haven't joined any formal local cycling clubs because I have found one where I like the jersey yet!



We're planning to have AC/DC on our Jerseys, Abingdon Cycling/Drinking Club ....
Our Cycling HQ is the Kings Head and Bell.


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## Fab Foodie (24 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Did you say cake ? That throws a completely different light on things, sign me up right now.
> Yes your probably right in that the forum probably reveals a harsher impression of things than if you actually attended an event.
> I wasnt saying i had any kind of a problem btw i was just saying i didnt really fancy joining a middle aged boys club particulary in light of some of the things ive been called on here for expressing an alternative opinion.
> I might take your ctc advice *or try a sportive.
> *



There's no cycling without cake  .
But here's what's interesting, I'd never consider doing a Sportive, too much Testosterone and Macho posturing for my liking (and money-making too). All carbon, Lycra and timing chips. If I want to know how fast I am I'd run the local 10 or 25TT. It goes to show that cycling is a broad church where hopefully there's something for everyone. Enjoy!
If you do one, let us know how you get on.


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## apollo179 (25 Sep 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> I love face to face confrontations.



Yes but your are from maidstone so that kinda goes without saying.


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## apollo179 (25 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Apollo 179, I'm not sure I know what you want out of this debate? Maybe it might help if you give us an insight into what your insecurities are regarding cycling and cyclists? Perhaps then we could be of some use.
> Maybe we could start with a clean sheet?
> 
> Perhaps forums are not for you, or maybe others may be more to your taste, there's Bikeradar, yacf, CTC and I'm sure MTB and other forums I'm not aware of that suit you better, either way, forums change, they're just a reflection of their members at any given time. Many here are refugees from forums that became to infantile and peurile, that's maybe why we have the demographic we do, but it's ever changing.
> ...



Hey fabfoodie ive already got what i came for out of this particular debate and that was simply to give my opininion.
Im not looking for another forum but thanks for the suggestion , i stumbled into this one purely by chance and it suits me fine .


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## apollo179 (25 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> There's no cycling without cake  .
> But here's what's interesting, I'd never consider doing a Sportive, too much Testosterone and Macho posturing for my liking (and money-making too). All carbon, Lycra and timing chips. If I want to know how fast I am I'd run the local 10 or 25TT. It goes to show that cycling is a broad church where hopefully there's something for everyone. Enjoy!
> If you do one, let us know how you get on.



Interesting we differ cos i regard a competetive event as an acceptable outlet for macho testosterone driven chest beating posturing , its the verbal manifestation that i personally find nauseating.
That said the reality is im a long way off - i presume you need a proper big wheeled road bike for a sportive and i need to get in some 100+ milers and get a grip on a minor problem with cramp (otherwise im ready to go) also have to buy some lycra i guess.
As you say anyone can guage how quick they are by just timing themeselves but i can appreciate the competetive impulse , like i can appreciate scr.
Enjoy indeed!
i will ley you know when i do one in due course .


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## Fab Foodie (25 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Interesting we differ cos i regard a competetive event as an acceptable outlet for macho testosterone driven chest beating posturing , its the verbal manifestation that i personally find nauseating.
> That said the reality is im a long way off - i presume you need a proper big wheeled road bike for a sportive and i need to get in some 100+ milers and get a grip on a minor problem with cramp (otherwise im ready to go) also have to buy some lycra i guess.
> As you say anyone can guage how quick they are by just timing themeselves but i can appreciate the competetive impulse , like i can appreciate scr.
> Enjoy indeed!
> i will ley you know when i do one in due course .



Ha! You'll become MAMIL in no time  
I caught you 'Cramp' thread, and Fiona has it correct, nobody really knows what causes or exactly what the cure is, most stuff written about cramp is bunk, BUT ... what you see is that cramp is a feature of early season exertion, so there is a very strong link with Cardiovascular fitness, cramp threads at this time of year are rare because people are in much better shape.
With the winter coming, just concentrate on gentle miles, warm-up slowly, spin the pedals rather than push a big gear, good long winter miles pay dividends in the spring.


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## 2PedalsTez (25 Sep 2011)

Not wanting to sound a touch 'simple', but... 
I love cycling because I can go for a ride alone (which I find quite therapeutic)
I love cycling because when on events, I can chat to people from all walks of life that I wouldn't normally chat to (I may be guilty of chatting too much!) 
Cycling is not elitist (in my opinion) 
I would like to join a club or regular group ride, but my work and home comittments don't always allow (but I will keep an eye out for the social ride)

I think this forum is pretty much spot on.


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## 2PedalsTez (25 Sep 2011)

ColinJ said:


> Oh, shucks, you didn't have to ...
> 
> (Could you remind me where to send the cheques - I've lost your addresses! )



Any chance of paying you some retrospective compliments? (I can use the cash) 

If it helps, I am prepared to lie too


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## ColinJ (25 Sep 2011)

2PedalsTez said:


> Any chance of paying you some retrospective compliments? (I can use the cash)


Unfortunately, the online compliment fund has dried up so I'll be relying on spontaneous freebies for the foreseeable future!


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## apollo179 (25 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ha! You'll become MAMIL in no time
> I caught you 'Cramp' thread, and Fiona has it correct, nobody really knows what causes or exactly what the cure is, most stuff written about cramp is bunk, BUT ... what you see is that cramp is a feature of early season exertion, so there is a very strong link with Cardiovascular fitness, cramp threads at this time of year are rare because people are in much better shape.
> With the winter coming, just concentrate on gentle miles, warm-up slowly, spin the pedals rather than push a big gear, good long winter miles pay dividends in the spring.



Ive got 80 miles planned for tomorrow so we will see about the cramp.
Yes ime trying to enforce the spinning thing and the warm up slowly as well. My problem is that on a time to distance covered basis if i warmed up any slower i would be traveling backwards. My regular 80 mile trip takes me 6 hours which when you consider that we have newcomers on the forum questioning why they are only doing 17mph makes me look pretty slow.
Whats you and your groups mph ?


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## apollo179 (25 Sep 2011)

2PedalsTez said:


> Not wanting to sound a touch 'simple', but...
> I love cycling because I can go for a ride alone (which I find quite therapeutic)
> I love cycling because when on events, I can chat to people from all walks of life that I wouldn't normally chat to (I may be guilty of chatting too much!)
> Cycling is not elitist (in my opinion)
> ...



+1 good post.
Cycling alone is quite therapeutic.


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## Fab Foodie (25 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive got 80 miles planned for tomorrow so we will see about the cramp.
> Yes ime trying to enforce the spinning thing and the warm up slowly as well. My problem is that on a time to distance covered basis if i warmed up any slower i would be traveling backwards. My regular 80 mile trip takes me 6 hours which when you consider that we have newcomers on the forum questioning why they are only doing 17mph makes me look pretty slow.
> Whats you and your groups mph ?



Group riding of course depend on the group, but our genteel social fgroup will average say 10-12 (it's flattish where we take them). I did a easy 30 spinning along with my mate this morning and we avaraged 15mph. We we ride together on club nights we do 22 miles at 20mph ave.
80 miles on at 12 mph riding alone sounds just peachy. Riding with others is always faster as you can share the work. Don't beat yourself up, enjoy the ride! By most peoples reckoning, 80 miles on a bike is like walking to the moon and back.


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## apollo179 (27 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Group riding of course depend on the group, but our genteel social fgroup will average say 10-12 (it's flattish where we take them). I did a easy 30 spinning along with my mate this morning and we avaraged 15mph. We we ride together on club nights we do 22 miles at 20mph ave.
> 80 miles on at 12 mph riding alone sounds just peachy. Riding with others is always faster as you can share the work. Don't beat yourself up, enjoy the ride! By most peoples reckoning, 80 miles on a bike is like walking to the moon and back.


I will have to try the 20 miles in one hour - to me it sounds very difficult.
Did my 80 miles in spot on 6 hours yesterday btw and only got cramp once at about 60miles when i got off the bike to get over a gate.
I was amused in your reply to Dora when you said that you put tail end charlie on the front of the group when you restart - i know what you mean and that its out of consideration so tec can set his own pace but personally i think i would rather hide at the back rather than be stuck out on point duty as whatever anyone says about going as slow as you want when your out in front as pacesetter theres always that unspoken expectation to get a move on and it is just harder work. As i said i do appreciate the spirit but i have visions of some poor wreck busting a blood vessel to set a decent pace into a headwind.


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## Fab Foodie (27 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> I will have to try the 20 miles in one hour - to me it sounds very difficult.
> Did my 80 miles in spot on 6 hours yesterday btw and only got cramp once at about 60miles when i got off the bike to get over a gate.
> I was amused in your reply to Dora when you said that you put tail end charlie on the front of the group when you restart - i know what you mean and that its out of consideration so tec can set his own pace but personally i think i would rather hide at the back rather than be stuck out on point duty as whatever anyone says about going as slow as you want when your out in front as pacesetter theres always that unspoken expectation to get a move on and it is just harder work. As i said i do appreciate the spirit but i have visions of some poor wreck busting a blood vessel to set a decent pace into a headwind.


Well done on the 80! Glad the cramp seems to be abating, it should with practice.

Regarding 20 miles in 1 hour, that makes us the slowest in our club and we only achieve that because we can ride wheel to wheel and draft/slipstream each other to maximise our effort, we can do it now without thinking we've been riding together for so long. Any form of fairly close group riding helps in this respect.

In Dora's response, we put those falling off the rear of the group up near the front when we restart partly so they don't already start at the back, but so they get some benefit of riding ammongst others which tends to make them ride a bit quicker anyhow, and offers them a bit of wind protection to boot. OK, inevitably they will tend to slip back through the field, but then they'll often get a lot of encouragement en-route. They might fall-off the back or at least be close when we get to the next junction or re-group point where we can repeat the process.
In that way we can keep-em and their minder closer to the main group for longer. It's not perfect.
On occasions I've ridden with a tail-ender alone the whole way round, it's no probs (apart from you're no longer part of a group), but sometimes you're going so slow that it's hard to keep a twitchy road-bike upright! C'est la vie!


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## apollo179 (28 Sep 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> Well done on the 80! Glad the cramp seems to be abating, it should with practice.
> 
> Regarding 20 miles in 1 hour, that makes us the slowest in our club and we only achieve that because we can ride wheel to wheel and draft/slipstream each other to maximise our effort, we can do it now without thinking we've been riding together for so long. Any form of fairly close group riding helps in this respect.
> 
> ...



Thats when you wish youd brought a tow rope , or rather thats when tec wishes youd brought a tow rope.
I tried the 20 miles in an hour today and failed miserably btw but its something to aim at. Im consoling myself that the principal problem is the bike and not my hideous physical condition.


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## Fab Foodie (28 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Thats when you wish youd brought a tow rope , or rather thats when tec wishes youd brought a tow rope.
> I tried the 20 miles in an hour today and failed miserably btw but its something to aim at. Im consoling myself that the principal problem is the bike and not my hideous physical condition.



Don't be disheartened, 20 miles in an hour solo is hard on a racing-bike, let alone anything else! Just enjoy your cycling


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## albion (28 Sep 2011)

I'm sure its the non club riders like myself who are more set n their ways.On Sunday I passed 3 clubs on my Hexham way route, all being different and no doubt all certainly sociable.Hadrians C C had club jerseys on so wonder if that came about on some charity ride.


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