# Stoopid question about GPS/Tom Tom etc



## Bigtallfatbloke (4 Jan 2008)

I need a GPs for my bike.

Wifey has a Tom Tom in her car

I could 'borrow' th etom tom one dark night and attach to bike some how...

...question...

will a standard tom Tom from Halfords used in the car be any good to me on my bike in France?


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## Brock (4 Jan 2008)

Power is the problem there I think mate, the car ones don't take batteries AFAIK.


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## sadjack (4 Jan 2008)

Agreed. Power will be the problem. I've not seen a battery one. 

Also will the tomtom have maps for France? I know some do but equally some dont.

Garmin do something for bikes but I'm not sure how good they are as I have never seen one apart from in the cycling press.


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## vernon (4 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I need a GPs for my bike.
> 
> Wifey has a Tom Tom in her car
> 
> ...



The pages torn from a large scale motoring Atlas served me well and cost less than a tenner. No worries about the batteries going flat.


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## Penfold (4 Jan 2008)

My Tom Tom has its own internal battery, but I've no idea how long it would last for without an external power source of some kind.

There must be a GPS company that does a bike specific device, isn't there? 

If not, come on, its being anti cyclist not too!


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## Brock (4 Jan 2008)

I think this is the thread we need. I keep reading it but then get to the end with more questions than when I started.
I think I see Garmin in our future though btfb.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (5 Jan 2008)

..yeah if I had the cash I'd get a cycle gps tomorrow...I was just thinking I could half inch the Mrs' sat nav and save some cash


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## Abitrary (5 Jan 2008)

If you take a sat nav to somewhere like france, it will take 50% of the fun out of it. Leave all the tech stuff behind and it will be a lot more rewarding.

Half the fun of touring is waiting for FNAC to open on sunday mornings to buy maps.... isn't it?


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## Brock (5 Jan 2008)

Abitrary is probably right, as always.


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## trio25 (5 Jan 2008)

My TomTom has a battery but I think it'll only last about an hour. Not really long enough for a bike tour. Mine doesn't have maps of France, but if you have the Europe version your's will do, but they can be bought off the TomTom site.


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## PrettyboyTim (5 Jan 2008)

I was under the impression that most SatNavs have some form of internal battery, especially as nowadays they are quite small and designed to be able to be taken with you and assist you on foot if neccessary.

I have an 02 XDA PDAphone that has GPS built in and TomTom installed, and I have used it on my bike a little bit. With my phone I'd guess the battery would last a little over an hour when using the GPS. If there was a mode that would just give you audio instructions while powering down the screen, it'd probably last longer.

There are ways to charge your phone/GPS unit from a bike dynamo, but most of them are DIY and you need to able to solder together a simple circuit. I did find a company in Australia who make a solar/dynamo powered phone charger, but I don't know how much it costs.

I would suggest panning your route, taking a map, and taking the TomTom for in case you get lost. You won't need the TomTom on all the time then so the battery life won't be a problem.


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## will (5 Jan 2008)

GPS for BIKE

use a Gramin Edge 305 or the upcoming 705 it is designed for a bike


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## vernon (5 Jan 2008)

> The 205/305 models don't have maps. You get a line on the screen to follow, but the screen is otherwise blank. Mind you, I've done 60 milers this way without getting lost. The problem is that if you do get lost all you can do is aim towards the line again. you don't see the roads.
> 
> The 705 has full mapping.



My mobile phone has Googlemaps installed on it. I've looked at it but never used it. A downloaded route description from my computer or a road atlas normally suffice when travelling in the UK. I don't know if Googlemaps will be accessible from the phone networks in France. There will certainly be a data charge though nowhere near the hapless UK user who picked up a £25k+ bill for a month when he used the phone as a modem


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## snorri (5 Jan 2008)

vernon said:


> The pages torn from a large scale motoring Atlas served me well and cost less than a tenner. No worries about the batteries going flat.



And no worry if they get dropped, lost or stolen either.


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## Abitrary (5 Jan 2008)

Half the fun is asking people directions, you feel like a bit of a tit doing it non stop for the first couple of days, but then you become hardened to it.

Asking waiters in cafe's is good, because they sometimes can suggest good alternatives, places to visit etc...


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## rprodgers (5 Jan 2008)

I have a PDA with Tom Tom included as pre loaded software covering Western Europe .

Using an expensive Ortleib cover and attachment I have used it with my bike.

Unfortunately its use on the bike is limited as it only has a 3 hour battery life.

Paul


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## domtyler (5 Jan 2008)

So the consensus is either splash out on one of the new Garmin Edge 705's or learn to use a paper map? I think I'd go with that, trying to do SatNav for a bike across Europe on the cheap sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!!


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## Cathryn (5 Jan 2008)

Maps. Surely it's simple to read a map, and I'm a GIRL!


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## Brock (5 Jan 2008)

Yeah it is really.. But we're BLOKES and like gadgets.


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## RedBike (5 Jan 2008)

Another Nokia Mobile phone / tomtom user. I get between 1:30 and 2hrs use from one battery. I tried powering it off the dynamo. However, it still only lasted about 2.5hrs.


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## trio25 (5 Jan 2008)

After reading this I'd thought I'd try it out and cycle back from a ride I went on today. Turned it on, put it in a pocket and it directed me a brilliant way back, avoiding main roads and finding lots of hills. It worked a lot better than I expected.


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## ColinJ (5 Jan 2008)

Cathryn said:


> Maps. Surely it's simple to read a map, and I'm a GIRL!


It's simple to read a map at home in the dry. It isn't quite so simple or convenient if you are out in a warren of criss-crossing country lanes on a wet and windy day and especially when you are crossing the boundaries of 4 separate maps!

I use my Etrex GPS on long rides in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cheshire and Derbyshire and have never got lost on 15 rides over 200 km. A lot of those places I hardly see anybody so asking for directions wouldn't be much of an option.

When I go to visit my family in the midlands I ride a different bike which doesn't have a bar mount for the GPS so I navigate using the local OS maps. So far, I've lost my way about 4 or 5 times in 4 or 5 rides and that is within a 20 km radius of where I grew up. It's just so inconvenient taking maps out and putting them away again, having to refold them... I try to memorise 7 or 8 turns ahead but end up getting it wrong. I suppose if I used a bar mounted map holder that would make things easier. (Note to self - I actually have one, so must take it down with me on next visit!)

I love maps, but I prefer to look at them in comfort. When I'm riding I don't want to think about where I'm going, I want to concentrate on the ride itself.

I already had lots of paper maps, but when I bought the Etrex I also bought Memory Map OS Landranger mapping for the entire UK. Every time I watch a TV programme about an interesting part of Britain (_Coast_ for example), I check out that area later using Memory Map.


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## Abitrary (6 Jan 2008)

Brock said:


> Yeah it is really.. But we're BLOKES and like gadgets.



Wrong. I don't like gadgets. I like the idea of a gadget that does *everything* like Dr Who's sonic screwdriver.

Until that appears on the market, I just see the rest as being essentially toys for, well, people with the mentality to need toys.


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## Brock (6 Jan 2008)

Ok after ColinJ's brave revelation that even as a male, he gets lost while using maps, I feel it necessary to reveal my own embarrassing dirty secret. So do I. Even when I have them in a map holder on my bar bag.   

Should we start a self help group and get an interview on Richard and Judy?


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## bonj2 (6 Jan 2008)

The main problem with a TomTom from halfords meant for cars is it will be TOO BIG! They're massive... the newer ones are a little slimmer but still quite large. And it won't have a clip to attach it to your bike, don't underestimate the importance of this.




> Aren't the car ones rechargeable? The Sony ones certainly are.
> 
> You'd be better if you could find a rechargeable one designed for motorbikes, but that would still be pretty big.


My bro's got a motorbike one, but afaik it plugs into his motorbike's battery.



> The garmin one is supposed to be good. I've got the 205, which is the one without mapping, and I'm pleased with it.


How the hell does it work if it hasn't got mapping?! Surely that's the whole point of them?



vernon said:


> The pages torn from a large scale motoring Atlas served me well and cost less than a tenner. No worries about the batteries going flat.


You're only saying that 'cos you're a nostalgic traditionalist.




Abitrary said:


> If you take a sat nav to somewhere like france, it will take 50% of the fun out of it. Leave all the tech stuff behind and it will be a lot more rewarding.
> 
> Half the fun of touring is waiting for FNAC to open on sunday mornings to buy maps.... isn't it?



Abitrary is probably right here.




PrettyboyTim said:


> I was under the impression that most SatNavs have some form of internal battery, especially as nowadays they are quite small and designed to be able to be taken with you and assist you on foot if neccessary.


Correct, as Brock says they do have a battery but it doesn't last long, it's only designed to last for while you are in the house programming it, or when you say take it into a garage so you don't lose the route, etc.



PrettyboyTim said:


> I have *an 02 XDA PDAphone that has GPS built *in and TomTom installed, and I have used it on my bike a little bit. With my phone I'd guess the battery would last a little over an hour when using the GPS. If there was a mode that would just give you audio instructions while powering down the screen, it'd probably last longer.


They rule. That's what you want. Computer (they can run Windows CE), phone, GPS all in one. I'd have one if money was no object.




> The 205/305 models don't have maps. You get a line on the screen to follow, but the screen is otherwise blank. Mind you, I've done 60 milers this way without getting lost. The problem is that if you do get lost all you can do is aim towards the line again. you don't see the roads.
> 
> The 705 has full mapping.


How does it know where the line is supposed to go in the first place if it doesn't have maps?


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## Brock (6 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> They rule. That's what you want. Computer (they can run Windows CE), phone, GPS all in one. I'd have one if money was no object.



Yeah, and since the battery lasts 'a little over an hour' you'd have plenty of power to complete your longest ride without getting lost, eh bonj


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## RedBike (6 Jan 2008)

My Nokia phone cost me about £50, the gps reciever cost me about £30 and tomtom cost me £5 also off ebay. I just put the phone and the receiver in my back pocket; as you ride along it shouts out directions. You don't really need to look at it. 

I also use Viewranger which works very well off road. Nice detailed maps!


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## ColinJ (6 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> How the hell does it work if it hasn't got mapping?! Surely that's the whole point of them?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


As mentioned earlier, there was a long discussion about these questions in this thread.

My Etrex lasts more than 24 hours on one pair of NiMH AA cells (with the backlight switched off, but not using power-saving mode because it reduces accuracy).

If you are prepared to work out your routes at home and upload them to the GPS, it can give you a really simple line to follow. That's great for things like audax rides because the route is predetermined anyway.

A mapless GPS unit is not such a huge help if you prefer to meander off your preplanned routes from time to time. You won't be shown a road to take to get back on route. It isn't normally a problem because you can see what direction you have to go in so just take the first road going in roughly the right direction and you will probably get there in the end. If there is a major obstacle in the way e.g. a big river, mountain or gorge - you could be in trouble! It would help to have checked that kind of thing out before you set off. You could set waypoints for all major junctions, bridges, ferries, whatever and just make a beeline for them.

One really nice use for a mapless GPS is on rides where you just go out and explore new roads without any pre-thought as to where you will be going. Go where your fancy takes you, with the GPS logging all the twists and turns you make. Ride for about half the time you want to spend on the bike, then just turn round and let the GPS guide you back the way you came.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Jan 2008)

I want one that shouts directions at me...and that lasts for 8 weeks without charging...and never breaks.


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## Brock (6 Jan 2008)

..And has fast, zoomable maps down to 1:20 and 3D elevation data, POIs including live lunch menus and beer prices, and a whistle to blow in case you get lost.


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## trio25 (6 Jan 2008)

I don't think that exists


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## Brock (6 Jan 2008)

> What you need is a wife then.



Your wives last 8 weeks??


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## domtyler (6 Jan 2008)

> What you need is a wife then.



Your wife never breaks?


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## Brock (6 Jan 2008)

Your wife doesn't charge??? oh..


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## domtyler (6 Jan 2008)

A GPS with no maps is fine for me for cycling. It is NOT SAT-NAV, it just gives you a line and an arrow pointing to the direction you need to go. I have never needed more than this. You cycle along a lane, go the wrong way and the arrow is now pointing away from the line, you think, okay, next opportunity I need to go left/right, you get back to the line. A bit different from Sat-Nav, which is really for people in a rush, but on a leisure ride this is just not necessary.


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## Gerry Attrick (6 Jan 2008)

Try this link: 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000RT1BFM?ie=UTF8&tag=sherlock-21

Its actually for motorcycles, but a cycle mount is available. Price makes me sweat though!


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## davidwalton (6 Jan 2008)

> I've seen one of these at an exhibition. Despite the fact that the bloke exhibiting it didn't seem to know much about how it worked, I was pretty impressed. It's expensive though.
> 
> http://satmap.com/



The Active 10 is designed for use in the great outdoors: it is not an in-car system. No road navigation directions.


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## davidwalton (6 Jan 2008)

> The OP is asking about GPS he can use on his bike. He doesn't want it for in-car use.
> 
> You can plan routes on the Active 10. And you can run it off AAs.



I took it from their site, ie. NO road navigation. Thought the thread was about road navigation. Something I want, but not found anything suitable.


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## davidwalton (6 Jan 2008)

> The thread is about someone asking about GPS for his bike, and people suggesting and providing information on the options.
> 
> From what I understand from the distributor, and you'll also find it on the site, you can plan routes on it from point to point on the device. I believe that you can also upload routes to it, as with the Garmin. There are web sites which will plot road routes for you between two points and then convert them to a .tcx or .crs file. You can then transfer them to the device and get off on your bike.
> 
> ...



Trouble with all the 'GPS' systems, is that they are not very good with roads. I travel on roads, like most others. GPS systems don't care about roads. As a result, a lot more is involved with getting a GPS system to be a road navigation system, instead of having a TomTom type system, but smaller with much much longer battery life, plus weather proof.

A GPS system for me is a waste of money, and for everyone else that only travels by road. Perhaps there are exceptions for some sport cyclists, but for all others, a road navigation system is what is required, but built for cyclists.

Basically, the answer (for me) is not to MAKE something do the job, I want something that is designed for the job. I have no desire to pay for a system that I have to MAKE do the job.

The time when locations are by map address, and GPS systems NATURALLY follow roads for navigation and on-route mapping, plus allow you to change mid-route, then I will be interested in something that does more than a TomTom (with weather proofing and decent battery life).


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## davidwalton (6 Jan 2008)

> fair enough. The type of thing that you say you want would be easier to use. I'm quite happy with something that gets you exactly where you want to go accurately (it can tell which side of the road you're on), on the roads you programme in, and only cost £65.
> 
> It's the price that did it for me. I wouldn't waste any more on something that does what I could do for the cost of a map printed off the internet and a biro. The Garmin does much more than just tell you which road to go down, and if you look at the training and on-road info it gives you, you're not paying much more than a fancy bike computer. And it has a rechargeable battery that lasts all day. And the vast majority of my riding is on the road. Id served me well over several months of 60 milers around the Midlands last year and didn't let me down once. I even have the pretty sat photos with the routes on. And it works under water!
> 
> ...



I like my toys, but I like them to be the best I can afford. For £65, there is nothing to cover my road navigation requirements that would last, either battery wise or through use in our weather.

If I want to get from South Essex through London, at present, I have to use a map or 3. That, or follow the main road signs, ie. A127/A13/A12 in to London, then A40 or A4 out the other end, and hope I go in the right direction while in the middle.

Ideally, a road navigation system would get me on to much safer roads that I could choose on the route, not get me lost in the middle, and be far less stressful as a result. Coming back the next day, there would still be battery left as well, and weather wouldn't kill the unit.

Thing is, I also don't want a fancy cycle trainer/computer, just the basics.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (6 Jan 2008)

the problem is th ebattery life. Somebody needs to market a clockwork gps system


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## Brock (7 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> the problem is th ebattery life. Somebody needs to market a clockwork gps system



http://www.solio.com/charger/

?


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

> That's possible on the Garmin Edge 205. For £65. All you have to do is go to www.bikeroutetoaster.com and use the course creator. That means setting some waypoints with a rough idea of the roads you want to use, then letting it sort the roads out for you. You then upload the route to the Edge and away you go.
> 
> Not sure about the battery life TBH. On my longest 3-dayer (3 full days) I was able to stick it on charge overnight. Although there was juice left when I put it on charge, I've never timed how long it takes to run down.



No. Not good enough, and no motorist would think so. Must be able to do everything on the unit, and unit must understand roads.



> The Edge 605 https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=&pID=10884 has maps and a claimed 15 hour battery life. You get turn by turn directions. If you know anyone in the States you could pick it up for £165. Mind you, you have to pay extra for the maps.




Does this do road navigation, and does it work as an independent unit? Yes, with City Navigator® street maps perhaps. If so, I will have just that bit.

There is obviously nothing on the market to just do what is required, ie. be an independent road navigation system with long battery life and weather protected?


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## PrettyboyTim (7 Jan 2008)

davidwalton said:


> There is obviously nothing on the market to just do what is required, ie. be an independent road navigation system with long battery life and weather protected?



You can probably get everything but the long battery life from a motorcycle GPS system. If you were to stick a motorcycle battery into your pannier and connect it up, you'd be set.


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

> Remember, we're talking about cyclists, not motorists.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be anything that meets your specific requirements at present, no.
> 
> However thousands of cyclists never get lost on roads using one of the systems available at this moment. They might not be right for you, but it would be daft to say that they're no good for anyone.



Not that they are no good, just not designed with what I want. That is not very different to what I would want with a similar unit in a car or any other form of transport. The object is to get from A to B, via C if a change my mind, or via anywhere else.

I am not one to make do. Just because thousands do use what is made available also doesn't make them ideal products for most. For cyclists, the products are designed for sports cyclists, for training, for getting overs hills and around lakes, but road navigation is not what they are intended for (just something some CAN be made to do).


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

PrettyboyTim said:


> You can probably get everything but the long battery life from a motorcycle GPS system. If you were to stick a motorcycle battery into your pannier and connect it up, you'd be set.



I really do find it hard to believe that what I want from a road navigation unit just isn't available. My situation is nowhere near unique, and I am sure there are many who just want and need a road navigation system that runs without carrying around a huge battery, and is weather proof.

There are people who use their cycles just for getting from A to B.

If Garmin or any other manufacturer decide to make something that fits my requirement, I will buy it. Until then, nobody gets my money


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

> You seem to be having difficulty separating what you want from what other people want/use/are happy with.
> 
> Feel free to have your own requirements without feeling the need to have them supported by the majority.



Sorry, I am not having a go at you or anyone else that wishes to use the GPS systems that are designed for cyclists. They are NOT designed for what I want, and I do NOT have any unique requirements. Just want to use a cycle to get around the roads safely and without getting lost.

To me, that is a fairly obvious thing to want to do. Not so with the available products though, unless I make them do it, rather than having something designed for the job.


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

> That's the bit I don't get about what you're saying. You don't just want that, because you can do it with the current technology. You also want it delivered in a specific manner.
> 
> I don't think you're getting at anyone BTW.



What I want is basic, so it's operation should also be basic and not require mapping on a PC to workout routes etc, etc. They can do it for motor vehicles, but not for cyclists

BTW- I have no idea about any of the roads in my area. I don't want to use the A127/A13/A12, but that is what I will be doing until I have better knowledge of the area. A Road Navigation system would make my cycling life far less dangerous.


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

> As would a map.
> 
> I know I own a GPS system (probably because I'm a man and like gadgets) but whatever did car drivers do before GPS came along? They didn't need them to learn areas did they?



No, and neither do I. I can use the major trunk roads in the area until I know of safer routes where I don't get lost.


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## User482 (7 Jan 2008)

I use turn-by-turn satnav on my mobile phone with a GPS receiver. Works very well - I use it for navigating through unfamiliar town centres, but stick to maps on the rural routes.


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## domtyler (7 Jan 2008)

This is the new Garmin Edge 705, it seems to tick most if not all your boxes David.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=10885#


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## davidwalton (7 Jan 2008)

OK, I phoned Garmin. They said to buy something like the eTrex Legend HCx plus "MapSource City Navigator Europe NT" and then you can use it as a road navigation system, just like you would in a car.

It is the mapping software on the unit that makes it run like a road nav system. MicroSD addition would allow whole of England map to be uploaded, so could then work everything on the unit, or use a PC/Mac if you want for pre-planning routes.

Only thing is that this works out to cost over £300 all in


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## Bigtallfatbloke (7 Jan 2008)

> I use turn-by-turn satnav on my mobile phone with a GPS receiver. Works very well - I use it for navigating through unfamiliar town centres, but stick to maps on the rural routes.



ok...this sounds interesting.

How is it done and exactly what gizmos are required?
How much does it cost in terms of the 'gizmos' and any ongoing costs when using etc?
If I got lost in the backstreets of a big city could it get me out and on my way without having to get off the bike every junction?


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## User482 (7 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ok...this sounds interesting.
> 
> How is it done and exactly what gizmos are required?
> How much does it cost in terms of the 'gizmos' and any ongoing costs when using etc?
> If I got lost in the backstreets of a big city could it get me out and on my way without having to get off the bike every junction?



Right...

I have a "smartphone" which runs on Symbian OS. It's a Nokia 5500 but there are a few others that do the same. Didn't really cost me anything as I needed a new phone anyway, and it was free with my contract. The 5500 is water resistant so a good choice for cycling.

I have a Nokia GPS unit which cost about £50. It's quite small (smaller than the phone) and can be kept in a pocket or in your pannier.

I loaded "nokia maps" onto my phone. Price varies depending on how long you want the licence for. I think three years is about £70. Alternatively you could buy TomTom's software on a DVD for a little more.

It works in exactly the same way as a car satnav. Typically, I would ask it to navigate from my current GPS position to a known postcode. It got me from Essex into the middle of London (in the car) without getting lost once. The screen is too small to be much use (unless you're a passenger), but the voice directions are good.

Battery life? I don't know as I only used it sparingly when cycling, and it was plugged in when in the car. You can get solar chargers for nokia mobiles though.


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## PrettyboyTim (7 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ok...this sounds interesting.
> 
> How is it done and exactly what gizmos are required?
> How much does it cost in terms of the 'gizmos' and any ongoing costs when using etc?
> If I got lost in the backstreets of a big city could it get me out and on my way without having to get off the bike every junction?



You can get bluetooth GPS modules on eBay for less than £30 including packaging. Just search for 'gps bluetooth'. I couldn't really tell you which one is best - they seem to have moved on a bit since I bought mine.

Anyway, they're about the size of a matchbox with a couple of LEDs on the front, and that's it. With no display to power, they'll work for a good 20 hours or so (probably better than that now) and they connect via bluetooth to your mobile phone. 

Which software you can get will depend on your phone, and some will run on fairly low-end phones without difficulty. Something to have a look at is activepilot, which will work on most mobile phones, and works on either a pay-as-you-go or monthly subscription basis, which costs up to £9.99 a month. As the routing is done on their servers however, it sends data to your phone via GPRS or 3G so you should expect some data charges as well.

If you have a Windows Mobile or Symbian-based phone, you may be able to get TomTom for your phone.

My guess is that you'd be able to get several hours of navigation on audio only with something like activepilot if you can turn off the screen backlight. Also, you may be able to find several solutions for keeping your phone charged from a backup battery.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (7 Jan 2008)

Many thanks..

...the Mrs has just aquired this:

http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4275003

on an upgrade on her contract or something...i was wondering if it might do the job...but the battery life worries me...also she's got all possesive about her new toy.
the 6100 navigator looks just the job though...but £300 ish...erm...


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## User482 (8 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> Many thanks..
> 
> ...the Mrs has just aquired this:
> 
> ...



It will do the job, and furthermore doesn't require an external GPS receiver as it has one built in. I don't know how well it works though.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (8 Jan 2008)

..well i just got 'feedback' from the Mrs on my e mail pleading to swap phones:



> The free trial is not valid on my phone.
> 
> 
> 
> It will still cost money to connect, and using the maps will drain the battery very quickly. You would probably not get more than 3 hours of mapping out of the phone, before it will need re-charging.



...I think that was a NO


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## User482 (8 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ..well i just got 'feedback' from the Mrs on my e mail pleading to swap phones:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I think that was a NO



3 hours sounds about right, but as I said, a solar charger could lengthen this considerably. In any case, you could turn it off for sections where you know where you're going.

What was the "free trial" comment about?


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## Bigtallfatbloke (8 Jan 2008)

> What was the "free trial" comment about?



http://europe.nokia.com/link?cid=EDITORIAL_358059


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## User482 (8 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> http://europe.nokia.com/link?cid=EDITORIAL_358059



With you. But as you can get a week's trial for 6.49, shouldn't be too much of an issue.


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## PrettyboyTim (8 Jan 2008)

Oooh - speaking of GPS software for phones - I just found Nav4All - the software is free and works on most mobile phones. You will get data charges, but it looks quite interesting. I've not tried it yet, but I'd guess it'd be a good option to try if you got one of those £25 bluetooth gps modules.


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## Penfold (14 Jan 2008)

Found this journal on Crazyguyonabike........

May be of interest

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=rzyi&doc_id=3140&v=EG


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