# is the MTB future 29" or 27.5"?



## e-rider (2 Dec 2016)

I'm fed up of buying stuff only for it to become obsolete a few years later
What size will MTB wheels be in 10 years time? 29" or 27.5"?
I don't want to spend ££££ on a bike only for the wheel size to be wrong in 10 years time. My current bike has 26" wheels and already the latest tyres are not available in that old size,. Quality suspension forks as well are no longer made for 26" wheels


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## Phaeton (2 Dec 2016)

I went to a 29er & I'm not convinced it's better than the previous 26, it is on the nice bridleways/tracks, but the 26 is better on the twisty bits, not that any of that really helps you sorry.


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## Drago (2 Dec 2016)

No one knows, although it's telling that the Worlds largest cycle manufacturer ditched 29 for MTBs a few years ago.


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## MiK1138 (2 Dec 2016)

Yeah general consensus round our way is 29 is dying out, I enjoyed mine for the short time I had it but have replaced it with a 27.5 hybrid


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## Nibor (2 Dec 2016)

My 29er has morphed into a drop handled exploring bike.


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## ChrisEyles (2 Dec 2016)

I've not been a fan of the 29er hardtail I've been borrowing over the last year. It's plenty capable enough, but not as much *fun* as the 26" bikes I've ridden. Not tried out a 27.5 wheel bike yet, though I'd certatinly be interested to see what they're like. I'm a little surprised to hear you can't get decent stuff for 26" wheel size though, I thought downhill bikes or anything that was going to take a bit of abuse still tended to use this size since the smaller wheels are stronger? Then again my idea of "decent" is probably most accurately and politely interpreted as "affordable"!


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## MarquisMatsugae (2 Dec 2016)

There was nothing wrong with 26" and there still isn't.
If I have to go custom over the years then so be it,the "smaller "wheel suits my trails and my riding.
I've demo'd quite a few 29ers and 27.5's and they didn't suit me.
I can see 27.5 becoming the standard for MTB's as they say it's the best of both worlds.Certainly for All Mountain/Enduro bikes.But again that discipline seems to be all disciplines rolled into one.
I'm not too sure about DH though,it's my opinion that DHers should stick with 26" as manoeuvrability is the name of the game going hell for leather .
No one size is the right size as they all have their benefits.
I just wonder if the bike makers might have realised making such a big leap in wheel size was a step too far.
Someone told me that they overheard some Pro XC bikers complain about having 29 ers forced upon them by their chosen brands and sponsors.
All word of mouth of course and can't be verified.


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## Yellow Saddle (2 Dec 2016)

e-rider said:


> I'm fed up of buying stuff only for it to become obsolete a few years later
> What size will MTB wheels be in 10 years time? 29" or 27.5"?
> I don't want to spend ££££ on a bike only for the wheel size to be wrong in 10 years time. My current bike has 26" wheels and already the latest tyres are not available in that old size,. Quality suspension forks as well are no longer made for 26" wheels


I think the obsolesense of the 26 incher is perceived, not real. So maybe one tyre company doesn't make a particular tyre in 26 inch. Just buy another type. Same with forks. 
In ten year there will still be 26ers riding around. Attempting to future-proof yourself against an industry that's deliberately inventing fashions to turn stock, is futile. Time for a ride with your mates and a nice beer afterwards.


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## MarquisMatsugae (2 Dec 2016)

It's never been a problem for me to aquire 26" tyres,and I get the very ones I want.
That been said,my tyre choices are Vittoria made Geax Barro Mountain's,so old/new stock really as Vittoria phased them out and stuck their own name on them. But.
I had no problem getting Vittoria Jafaki's in 26" and would be able to get them quite readily.
They have hardly been on my bike,as I prefer the Barro's compound more.Sorry Vittoria,this dude likes your old compounds better than your expensive Graphene jobbies !!! 
Want a blast from the past ?
I took the Barro's off and put my Winter tyres on.
Nokian Gazzaloddi's !!!!!.Oh yes 
Old Skool for cool .


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## Drago (2 Dec 2016)

I like cheap old Kenda Nevegals, so my favourite 26" tyres tipple is no problem.


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## dan_bo (2 Dec 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I think the obsolesense of the 26 incher is perceived, not real. So maybe one tyre company doesn't make a particular tyre in 26 inch. Just buy another type. Same with forks.
> In ten year there will still be 26ers riding around. Attempting to future-proof yourself against an industry that's deliberately inventing fashions to turn stock, is futile. Time for a ride with your mates and a nice beer afterwards.


Werd.


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## DRM (3 Dec 2016)

I remember reading one of the MTB comics a few years back, they were testing the difference between 26" 650b & 29 er's, after reading all the cobblers that was written, they had produced a graph to prove how amazing 29 er's were, by showing not too much speed difference between 26" & 27.5" with a huge inferred difference by the 29er, when you read the actual figures it was just a handful of seconds between 26" & 29er, it was just marketing rubbish served up as journalism.


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## MarquisMatsugae (3 Dec 2016)

DRM said:


> I remember reading one of the MTB comics a few years back, they were testing the difference between 26" 650b & 29 er's, after reading all the cobblers that was written, they had produced a graph to prove how amazing 29 er's were, by showing not too much speed difference between 26" & 27.5" with a huge inferred difference by the 29er, when you read the actual figures it was just a handful of seconds between 26" & 29er, it was just marketing rubbish served up as journalism.



The guy at my LBS hinted that they couldn't shift them,and I think that's a real shame.
Reason being is that they are one of my favourite brands(certainly in the 90's) in Marin.
I don't think there is anything wrong with them,they just don't suit my style.
Put it this way,if I was wanting to open up a can of Whup Ass on open fireroad trails,I would not hesitate.
I've said before,a guy I rode with had a 29er and killed me on the straights,whilst I made up for the 20 ft(ish) gap on the corners.
Swings and roundabouts


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## lpretro1 (3 Dec 2016)

e-rider said:


> I'm fed up of buying stuff only for it to become obsolete a few years later
> What size will MTB wheels be in 10 years time? 29" or 27.5"?
> I don't want to spend ££££ on a bike only for the wheel size to be wrong in 10 years time. My current bike has 26" wheels and already the latest tyres are not available in that old size,. Quality suspension forks as well are no longer made for 26" wheels



That's rubbish - Fox's latest 2017 fork range is available in 26" for example and a quick google shows plenty of RS too.
I think many shops are only showing 29" forks as they have excess stock and want to get rid of it as they are not that well selling


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## marzjennings (3 Dec 2016)

Drago said:


> No one knows, although it's telling that the Worlds largest cycle manufacturer ditched 29 for MTBs a few years ago.



If you mean Giant, they still make a few great 29ers.

I'm a huge fan of 29 inch wheels for the speed they can carry of a whole course and I still love riding my 26er for pure fun. I've felt 27.5 a poor compromise of the other 2 sizes, rather than the best of both worlds. But I am think of giving Enduro a try next year and for that I would pick up a 27.5 bike. 

It's also interesting that some of the frames now are being designed to fit 29 and 27.5+ wheels.


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## screenman (3 Dec 2016)

DRM said:


> I remember reading one of the MTB comics a few years back, they were testing the difference between 26" 650b & 29 er's, after reading all the cobblers that was written, they had produced a graph to prove how amazing 29 er's were, by showing not too much speed difference between 26" & 27.5" with a huge inferred difference by the 29er, when you read the actual figures it was just a handful of seconds between 26" & 29er, it was just marketing rubbish served up as journalism.



Riding a bike is surely not just about speed, different horses and all that stuff.

There is a bloke at one of the garages I worrk at and he is often running down the 29er, he has not got one nor has he ever ridden one, but boy is he expert on them.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Dec 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> The guy at my LBS hinted that they couldn't shift them,and I think that's a real shame.
> Reason being is that they are one of my favourite brands(certainly in the 90's) in Marin.
> I don't think there is anything wrong with them,they just don't suit my style.
> Put it this way,if I was wanting to open up a can of Whup Ass on open fireroad trails,I would not hesitate.
> ...



No, he beat you on the straights because he was a stronger rider than you. You beat him on the corners because you were better in corners.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Dec 2016)

marzjennings said:


> I'm a huge fan of 29 inch wheels for the speed they can carry of a whole course and I still love riding my 26er for pure fun. .



What do you mean by "The speed they can carry of a whole course.?


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## MarquisMatsugae (3 Dec 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> No, he beat you on the straights because he was a stronger rider than you. You beat him on the corners because you were better in corners.



Fair comment


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## DRM (3 Dec 2016)

screenman said:


> Riding a bike is surely not just about speed, different horses and all that stuff.
> 
> There is a bloke at one of the garages I worrk at and he is often running down the 29er, he has not got one nor has he ever ridden one, but boy is he expert on them.


But thats the thing, the bars on the graph were made to show a vast difference, the numbers didn't match the implied difference, the magazines test was speed around a set course on three different wheel sized bikes, the article was utter tosh, if I could see through it, I don't see why others couldn't, doesn't 
matter that my MTB is perfectly capable & runs on 26" wheels, I could well be faster than someone on a 29er, someone else on a penny farthing could be faster then me, doesn't bother me I just get out & enjoy the ride, on or off road.


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## Kajjal (3 Dec 2016)

Both sizes you mention are popular enough and show no signs of going anywhere. No one can guess what crazy nonsense bike manufacturers will dream up ten years in the future. Just get the bike you like the most.


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## screenman (3 Dec 2016)

DRM said:


> But thats the thing, the bars on the graph were made to show a vast difference, the numbers didn't match the implied difference, the magazines test was speed around a set course on three different wheel sized bikes, the article was utter tosh, if I could see through it, I don't see why others couldn't, doesn't
> matter that my MTB is perfectly capable & runs on 26" wheels, I could well be faster than someone on a 29er, someone else on a penny farthing could be faster then me, doesn't bother me I just get out & enjoy the ride, on or off road.



What we sometimes forget is that a lot of people enjoy reading fiction, I used to like a bit of John Grisham, or even Nick Spalding.


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## marzjennings (3 Dec 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> What do you mean by "The speed they can carry of a whole course.?



Sorry, bad typing on a cell phone...the speed they can carry over a whole course. Which for me and the trails I ride means I'm generally significantly faster riding my 29er than my 26er. Trails round here are generally wooded trails with roots, packed in clay and sand, no rock gardens, no climbs more than 50ft, single track with a few twisty sections. Fast trails where averaging +14mph is very possible and only ever ridden semi-dry and dry. 

As an example of carrying more speed, on the few short downhill sections we have and as I hit a level section of trail again, I consistently roll further and faster on a 29er than a 26er. I noticed this day one from owning a 29er.

I don't ride in the mud, so mud clearance isn't an issue. I don't ride many rock gardens, so don't need a mega-strong wheel. No real climbing round here, so weight isn't a big issue. The few really tight twisty sections of trail are quite navigable on the 29er, and while I would be quicker on the 26er on such sections over the whole course I'd be slower.


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## Colin_P (3 Dec 2016)

The pragmatic answer is to ride what works best for you and having the choice between three sizes is good.

The practical answer, for me is how big you are. I think the 700c / 29r wheelers can look quite odd in smaller frames and vica versa 26's in a large frame. Being towards the taller end of what humans grow to I prefer bigger wheels as they fit and scale up better on the bigger bikes I need to ride. My old 26" wheeler just doesn't feel right these days and gets relegated to being pool bike for as and when friends need the borrow of it.

Saying all that, I recently bought a 27.5" wheeler for my youngest son who is also tall which means I can ride it. And when I have if I'm honest it does feel just right.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Dec 2016)

marzjennings said:


> As an example of carrying more speed, on the few short downhill sections we have and as I hit a level section of trail again, I consistently roll further and faster on a 29er than a 26er. I noticed this day one from owning a 29er.
> 
> .



There is only one reason for that. You and your 29er weigh more than you and your 26er. There's no other rational reason. The flipside of that coin is that your roll consistently shorter and slower going uphill.


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## Kajjal (3 Dec 2016)

From my own experience both on XC hardtails, not unexpectedly 29er's roll better over the trail but you lose out on manoeuvrability. For my style of riding and where I ride 29ers are noticeably faster , but I have ridden my 26er recently on mountain trails with v-brakes, it was fine and made a interesting change with getting bumped around more but being able to make very quick , sharp movements.


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## ChrisEyles (3 Dec 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> There is only one reason for that. You and your 29er weigh more than you and your 26er. There's no other rational reason. The flipside of that coin is that your roll consistently shorter and slower going uphill.



Is that entirely true? If you had teeny tiny 2.6" wheels you'd get stopped dead by every little bump on the trail, whereas a massive tractor wheel wouldn't even "see" the bumps. Even with the same amount of momentum (rider + bike weight at a given speed), the angle of attack of a bigger wheel is going to be shallower, so more of the bike/rider momentum keeps going in the forward direction when travelling over a bump, rather than being diverted upwards. Granted the difference between 26" and 29" is not enormous, but I'm pretty sure the theory is sound, and I'm also pretty sure I've felt this in practice, when riding identical sections of trail on my rigid 26" and on a borrowed 29" hardtail with the forks locked out. 

The statement "29er roll better" does seem in general to be true to me (still don't get on with them though!).


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## marzjennings (3 Dec 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> There is only one reason for that. You and your 29er weigh more than you and your 26er. There's no other rational reason. The flipside of that coin is that your roll consistently shorter and slower going uphill.



That would be so true if my new carbon 29er mtb wasn't 10lbs lighter than my old 26er mtb. I haven't changed mass.


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## Drago (3 Dec 2016)

Not only do they weigh more, but the extra rolling circumference presents more area to clag up with mud.


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## DRM (3 Dec 2016)

screenman said:


> What we sometimes forget is that a lot of people enjoy reading fiction, I used to like a bit of John Grisham, or even Nick Spalding.


Yes but you realised that those publications started "Once upon a time"  I realised a while back that a lot of magazines are terrified of upsetting the advertisers, so print whatever rubbish the manufacturers ask them to, for fear of losing advertising revenue, they also rehash the same old topics & articles over time, anyway theres nothing wrong with 29er's, 27.5" or 26" you just need to ride what you've got, who knows what the next big thing will be, but you can guarantee the mags will have you believing you can't live without it.


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## MarquisMatsugae (3 Dec 2016)

I'm going to challenge @Yellow Saddle on my26er.
He is not in the same class as forum member Blazed that's for sure.










(Kidding)


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## Ciar (5 Dec 2016)

I previously rode a HT 29'r and have now switched to a Bouncy 27.5 trail bike, which i generally run locked out. differences for me as my local is Epping, the 29'r went over everything roots mud you name it without any real problems, the 27'5 is much more fun, but you need to manoeuvre it correctly as it doesn't roll as easily, but on the twisty turny trails it's easier to handle as it's not akin to driving a tank ;-)

for me personally it's horses for courses, if i was to buy a second MTB it would be slack framed HT and probably 29'r and i reckon i would grab a Bird as they seems to be brilliant.

in all honesty if you read singletrack magazine of follow them, lately everything posted is about either Fat Bikes or E-Bikes, you can guess what companies are currently paying them to advertise  

i have never got into the debate on wheel size, as i reckon they all have their merits, but the wheel difference, in my eyes is no different to record companies inventing genres, to get people to buy music all marketing pure and simple.


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## Drago (5 Dec 2016)

None of them have their merits, only different combinations of compromise.


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## mythste (6 Dec 2016)

I think 26" is the best.

Because everyone is moving away from them and you can pick up some quality used gear for next to pennies


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## HarryTheDog (6 Dec 2016)

Overall its different wheels and tyres for different courses. I started of racing XC on my 26 inch scott scale 35. I was right at the back. I then test rode a Cannondlae FS1 27.5 back to back with a Specialized stumpjumper 29er to see if they were any better. I found the 27.5 and 29er very similar, but the stumpjumper felt like I had been riding it for years with no weirdness to it at all, So bought it despite the Cannondale feeling like it had superior suspension. ( superior price as well)
I made up 12 places in my next race. I kept my 26inch for a while, only rode it twice more for fun but I gave up on it as it felt so slow and sold it. ( note the bikes were very similar weights) 
In nearly all races the vast majority of people were on 29ers, for the more twisty technical races some top guys ( with several bikes) switched to 27.5's. When it was really sticky mud some people who had them switched back to 26 inch as skinnier tyres are more readily available and less wieght of mud to carry.
When I go out on evening muck about rides with a club who nearly all do not race, most use 27.5 full sussers for the more manoeuvrable than 29er, better roll over than 26 inch factor, and most are old geezers who like comfort of full susension.
So you need 3 bikes really and probably 3 sets of tyres for each. If not just compromise like the rest of us.


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## Levo-Lon (7 Dec 2016)

A 26








A 27.5







i will only have a 27.5 ..until i find a better looking option..


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2016)

I can't actually tell much difference, other than my 26" is over 20 years old and quite 'small' compared to my new 27.5" full suspension - both very different bikes. As for speed, very little difference on the flat or climbing - got similar speeds on my circuits, but the suspension only helps with rocky conditions or very rough conditions.

Marketing rubbish.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2016)

Over a local circuit the 26 takes 15 minutes to get around, the 29er is 17 minutes faster.


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2016)

It's like Oval chain rings coming into MTB. They don't make a difference. Some really think it does. It's negligible on a road bike, never mind throwing all the variables that are in MTB riding.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2016)

fossyant said:


> It's like Oval chain rings coming into MTB. They don't make a difference. Some really think it does. It's negligible on a road bike, never mind throwing all the variables that are in MTB riding.



How do you mean not make a difference?


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## Drago (7 Dec 2016)

fossyant said:


> I can't actually tell much difference, other than my 26" is over 20 years old and quite 'small' compared to my new 27.5" full suspension - both very different bikes. As for speed, very little difference on the flat or climbing - got similar speeds on my circuits, but the suspension only helps with rocky conditions or very rough conditions.
> 
> Marketing rubbish.


You're like me. I've currently 3x26's, sold my 29 and now have a Pace 27.5, and I'm buggered if I can find any difference in any area of performance that can be attributed to wheel size. 

I did notice that, like for like, 29" hoops are more flexi, sometimes disconcertingly so, at least for a heavy lard-O like me, and the weight of mud they carry makes them ill suited for many British conditions. A convert I was not.

The experiences of off road motorcycles show that a large front wheel is no impediment to agility - just look at Dougie Lumpkin - which suggests other aspects of geometry, wheelbase etc are more important than wheel size when going down a nadgery route.

Marketing guff, trying to create and sustain a trend that can be exploited for commercial gain, and too many people in our consumer centred society are gullible enough to keep feeding the machine.


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2016)

Drago said:


> You're like me. I've currently 3x26's, sold my 29 and now have a Pace 27.5, and I'm buggered if I can find any difference in any area of performance that can be attributed to wheel size.
> 
> I did notice that, like for like, 29" hoops are more flexi, sometimes disconcertingly so, at least for a heavy lard-O like me, and the weight of mud they carry makes them ill suited formwe British conditions.



Other than the new bike is leap years ahead in technology, they still both climb and go on the flat the same speed. OK the new bike has super hydraulic brakes, and fabulous suspension that lets you go over rough descents with confidence faster, and a dropper post that stop's you thinking you'll tip over on some steep slopes, but most riding, fairly similar. The old bike is far better in crap winter gloopy conditions, no suspension to wreck. My old 20 year old XT shifts as sweet as the SRAM X9, all be it a bit heavier.

It's all getting very muddled with Plus sizes and long travel 29ers. 

I think the main thing, is look at the riding you are doing. If it's trails and XC then maybe upto 140mm travel, bits of proper downhill and XC, go for an Enduro with 150 - 160mm travel, or go the full hog and get a DH bike for going downhill only (apparently horrible to actually ride them anywhere).

Many of the mid travel bikes can do everything, other than go crazy on downhill.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2016)

Each one of my current stock of 7 bikes all ride differently, choice is a great thing to have.


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## Drago (7 Dec 2016)

Fair point. I'm don't do droppers either. I felt no benefit, wasn't any 'better' or more comfortable, and it was just extra weight for the sake of 2011's latest craze. On eBay it went.

If manufacturers told the masses that having a picture of Gary Glitter on the head tube made bikes quicker then some magazine would invent a rationale to fit the claim - not the other way around - and the masses would be waving the credit cards in anticipation.

It's like F1 drivers. Some like a car set up hard, all the controls sharp and immediate. Others like a softer, more progressive set up. Despite these differences there's no correlation between any particular preference and race wins or world championships. It's simply what works for that driver, on in our case rider. 

And a final thought, as applicable to road bikes as well. How many riders, particularly amateur racers, rushed out to buy 29ers a few years back, to emulate their heroes (who we in the main given them by their sponsors whether they liked it or not), when a bit of attention to diet or training would have gained equal, if not greater results? 

Marketing bull is all it ever was, and manufactures are quietly forgetting this as they switch to 27.5. After all, how could one size be better four years ago, and another better today? They can't be right both times.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2016)

I should add that I cannot remember the last time I read a bike review, I would think maybe 20 years ago. So I would imagine that I have not been conned by a magazine.

Despite have 3 New bikes in the last 6 years I have chosen one of them, so again not conned.


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## Drago (7 Dec 2016)

I stopped reading them after MBR, who spent years vehemently deriding 29'ers, switched almost overnight to championing them.

No explanation or rationale was given, and I could only conclude that they were concerned about alienating their advertisers. In no level could that be seen as subjective or authoritative.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2016)

Drago said:


> I stopped reading them after MBR, who spent years vehemently deriding 29'ers, switched almost overnight to championing them.
> 
> No explanation or rationale was given, and I could only conclude that they were concerned about alienating their advertisers. In no level could that be seen as subjective or authoritative.



Maybe they saw the light


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## Nigeyy (12 Dec 2016)

I tend towards thinking that the wheel size is mostly marketing folks (mfers as I like to call them) creating a need for people to carry on buying stuff. And there's nothing wrong in that!

I'm not very tall, so I'm fine with 26 wheels -and at the moment, I can easily buy stuff for them as well, so no problems there. If and when 26 stuff stops being manufactured, I'll worry then, and buy a new bike if necessary. But honestly, I really don't care if it's shown a 29/27.5/26 (choose whichever!) is 10 seconds faster over a one mile course as i. I'm not racing, ii. even if I'm with friends they'll stop for me anyway, iii. it's not like I'm doing crazy stuff, and iv. I'm out to enjoy the ride, not improve by 10 seconds every mile. And let's face it: pro mtb races have been held with 26 wheels anyway, its not like they've been shown to be severely lacking for the job or something.

However, I think different wheel sizes are great -buy whichever option suits you. I'm just hoping everyone ditches the 26 so I can buy great stuff cheap  If you can, just be confident within yourself with your choices and enjoy riding -isn't that is what it is about, not a wheel size?


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## Nigel-YZ1 (12 Dec 2016)

I went for a 27.5 purely because it was the best value of the options I had. One of my rides ends in a 5.5 mile climb on smooth Trans Pennine Trail and it's definitely easier on me tired old legs.

Magazines will follow fads. My bike was panned for not having 'plus size' tyres and not having rear suspension. Definitely the reviewer spitting the dummy!
The spec that wipes the floor with others at the same price point was ignored.


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## MarquisMatsugae (12 Dec 2016)

Drago said:


> You're like me. I've currently 3x26's, sold my 29 and now have a Pace 27.5, and I'm buggered if I can find any difference in any area of performance that can be attributed to wheel size.
> 
> I did notice that, like for like, 29" hoops are more flexi, sometimes disconcertingly so, at least for a heavy lard-O like me, and the weight of mud they carry makes them ill suited for many British conditions. A convert I was not.
> 
> ...



Shows yer Pace !!!!!


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## 3narf (13 Dec 2016)

In my case it's 27.5. 29ers just don't look right to me.


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## wahoofish (4 Jun 2017)

Interesting to read this thread and to reflect on a few points that, in my mind anyway, are pretty clear facts.

Fact One - 26,ers are not better for downhill, uphill or flats. How many XC Or XCM competitors still ride them? And before anybody spews the nonsense about the pro's being sponsored, go and look at any big XCM event and see how many of the top 50% of the field are riding 26 inch wheels. I have witnessed in instant improvement in performance in many riders when upgrading to a 29'er, especially on long straights and technical up-hills. They are also great with the windy, technical stuff, but this does require a change in riding style. Also, worth reading about the Santa Cruz downhill riders who are using 29'ers for the World Cup this year because, even through they don't feel as fast, the times indicate that they are much faster.

Fact Two - Dropper posts, for a significant portion of mountain bikers (not towpath and blue route riders, but everyone else), offer a huge benefit. To be fair, no more than stopping and manually dropping your saddle before a steep technical section, but from a convenience and speed aspect, certainly they do.


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## ChrisEyles (5 Jun 2017)

I'd agree with @wahoofish from my limited experience... but what sticks out for me is the "29ers don't feel as fast" comment, which I think is absolutely true. Great for racers, obviously, but for messing around on the trails I think perceived speed is more important than actual speed, and my 26ers "feel" faster to me than the various 29ers I've ridden.


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## Blue Hills (5 Jun 2017)

Certainly hope the 26 inch wheel has a future as I've very recently bought a 26 inch wheel expedition tourer. I tend to think I'll be OK. Recently rode it Birmingham to London - fast enough and its wheels and big (for me) tyres were much appreciated on some dodgy downhill country lanes, cross country tracks and canal towpaths


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## Lozi (26 Nov 2017)

I'm really hoping 26" makes a comeback as that is a mountain bike to me, when I see a 29" this is what I see..







Whoops old thread


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## Blue Hills (26 Nov 2017)

Not that old, on topic, no probs.


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## cyberknight (26 Nov 2017)

Considering 650b for the subway, really are they better rolling than 26 ?


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## SteCenturion (6 Dec 2017)

_*28.25 *_will be the new *'Standard' *


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## cyberknight (7 Dec 2017)

[QUOTE 5069561, member: 43827"]I'm just 5'8" tall and when I ride a 29er mtb with big tyres on it I look just like a little kid who's borrowed his older brother's bike.[/QUOTE]
I have decided to stick with my stock wheels, for the few seconds i may save on my commute it isnt worth the hassle.


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## screenman (7 Dec 2017)

[QUOTE 5069561, member: 43827"]I'm just 5'8" tall and when I ride a 29er mtb with big tyres on it I look just like a little kid who's borrowed his older brother's bike.[/QUOTE]

Taller than me, and do I care what I look like when I am having fun, no not at all.


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## ShxdowRider420 (12 Jul 2018)

for me. 29 is too big. even 27.5 is sometimes difficult for me to manoeuvre at technical parts on the trails. I run 27.5's though because 26'' are seen as little boy tyres from back in the day ahahaha .. so yh.. 27.5s are the happy medium lol.


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## Blue Hills (12 Jul 2018)

Sod what anyone thinks. Ride what you like, what meets your needs. If you think 26 inch is better for your style of riding, ride the &&& things. Am perfectly happy with my 26 inch wheeled exped bike.


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## Phaeton (12 Jul 2018)

Holy thread revival Batman, although I stick by my comments in post 2, I like my 29er for the open lanes & road sections, but it feels a big & clumbersome on anything technical, if I knew then what I do now, I'm not sure I would have bought it.


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## derrick (12 Jul 2018)

My future on the MTB is 26" Have had it for years, have no intention to change it, Where as my road bike gets all the best gear.


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## Threevok (12 Jul 2018)

Cotic have a new Bfe frame out

and guess what 

it's 26"

If I hadn't already bought a 26" Inbred - I would be so there


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## Levo-Lon (12 Jul 2018)

Best bet is get a 27.5 with plus tyres.
You'll then have a 27.5 with 29 rolling circumferance.. "diameter then" I can spell that


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## Black Sheep (24 Jul 2018)

Part of me wishes I'd bought a 29er but they weren't really popular (or many about) when I bought my current bike, that and I was just replacing a frame at the time. Think the 29er version of my inbred would really suit me and my riding, probably helps that I'm just over 6ft...


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## Phaeton (24 Jul 2018)

I've just put a longer stem on mine & I am now much happier, I didn't feel safe before stood on the pedals


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> I like my 29er for the open lanes & road sections, but it feels a big & clumbersome on anything technical, if I knew then what I do now, I'm not sure I would have bought it.



A 26" MTB certainly handles better and feels more agile than a 700C hybrid when ridden on bumpy gravel and rooty woods tracks. 26" just feels more willing to change direction and the wheels will turn in a tighter space. 27.5" and 29" hold no appeal whatsoever to me for MTB wheels.


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## Kajjal (24 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> A 26" MTB certainly handles better and feels more agile than a 700C hybrid when ridden on bumpy gravel and rooty woods tracks. 26" just feels more willing to change direction and the wheels will turn in a tighter space. 27.5" and 29" hold no appeal whatsoever to me for MTB wheels.



It depends on your personal preference and riding style. My newer HT and FS bikes are both 29". They suit my preference for natural trails, longer rides and not being interested in jumps etc. I do have an old 26" 1990's XC HT which I keep abroad with relatives and take up into the mountains. It takes a few minutes to adjust and the only real downside is the less grip on steeper climbs off road. It is more manoeuvrable but does get bashed around a bit more.


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## jowwy (31 Jul 2018)

Ebike 27.5s or 29ers are the future.........wont find them in skips though


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Jul 2018)

jowwy said:


> Ebike 27.5s or 29ers are the future.........wont find them in skips though



Ebikes are cheat bikes in my book, whatever their wheel size. I just don't see the point of them, and I'm sure plenty WILL actually end up being dumped in skips in future when the batteries and motors fail and they are uneconomic to repair. OK, some of my machines may have been, err, "recycled" and may not have been top of the range to begin with, but they are 100% human-powered.


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## jowwy (31 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Ebikes are cheat bikes in my book, whatever their wheel size. I just don't see the point of them, and I'm sure plenty WILL actually end up being dumped in skips in future when the batteries and motors fail and they are uneconomic to repair. OK, some of my machines may have been, err, "recycled" and may not have been top of the range to begin with, but they are 100% human-powered.


Cheating at what exactly??


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## Blue Hills (1 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> Ebike 27.5s or 29ers are the future.........wont find them in skips though


Comes as news to me that there's one future.

Your baiting continues though.


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## jowwy (1 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Comes as news to me that there's one future.
> 
> Your baiting continues though.


Baiting?? Dont tell me, your one of those millenial snowflakes that doesnt understand banter


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## Blue Hills (1 Aug 2018)

no way am I millenial snowflake.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (1 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Ebikes are cheat bikes in my book, whatever their wheel size. I just don't see the point of them, and I'm sure plenty WILL actually end up being dumped in skips in future when the batteries and motors fail and they are uneconomic to repair. OK, some of my machines may have been, err, "recycled" and may not have been top of the range to begin with, but they are 100% human-powered.



I've been at the point where I was told I may never cycle again. So from that perspective I think they're a great idea 
On the skipping side of things I'd be interested to hear from people who have had them fail and what their longevity is.


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## jowwy (1 Aug 2018)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> I've been at the point where I was told I may never cycle again. So from that perspective I think they're a great idea
> On the skipping side of things I'd be interested to hear from people who have had them fail and what their longevity is.


On the pedelecs forum, there are some guys with 6/7 years ownership and 20k+ miles on them and still going strong


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## Phaeton (1 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Ebikes are cheat bikes in my book.


Do you have the ISBN number?


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## FishFright (1 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Ebikes are cheat bikes in my book, whatever their wheel size. I just don't see the point of them, and I'm sure plenty WILL actually end up being dumped in skips in future when the batteries and motors fail and they are uneconomic to repair. OK, some of my machines may have been, err, "recycled" and may not have been top of the range to begin with, but they are 100% human-powered.



You think spending money is cheating so that comes as no surprise 

But seriously it's only cheating during competition the rest of the time it's the rider's business and not ours.


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## SkipdiverJohn (2 Aug 2018)

FishFright said:


> You think spending money is cheating so that comes as no surprise
> .



Its cheating because it involves electrical assistance and the motion is not wholly the result of the rider's own efforts.
True to say I also regard e-bikes as a complete waste of money, after all why spend two or three times the price of a normal bike just for the privilege of having the ugliest bike on the street, with a bloody great unsightly lump fixed to the downtube?


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## Kajjal (2 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Its cheating because it involves electrical assistance and the motion is not wholly the result of the rider's own efforts.
> True to say I also regard e-bikes as a complete waste of money, after all why spend two or three times the price of a normal bike just for the privilege of having the ugliest bike on the street, with a bloody great unsightly lump fixed to the downtube?



You could ask my neighbour in his late 70’s who has an ebike which he takes off road on a regular basis. He got one due to finding the hills too much now.


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## FishFright (2 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Its cheating because it involves electrical assistance and the motion is not wholly the result of the rider's own efforts.
> True to say I also regard e-bikes as a complete waste of money, after all why spend two or three times the price of a normal bike just for the privilege of having the ugliest bike on the street, with a bloody great unsightly lump fixed to the downtube?



Now read that aloud and realise what you sound like


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## jowwy (3 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Its cheating because it involves electrical assistance and the motion is not wholly the result of the rider's own efforts.
> True to say I also regard e-bikes as a complete waste of money, after all why spend two or three times the price of a normal bike just for the privilege of having the ugliest bike on the street, with a bloody great unsightly lump fixed to the downtube?


but cheating at what? you still havent answered the question?

also my ebike cost 3 times less than my custom Ti roadbike, you really need to do more investigation before making such stupid posts, about something you obviously know diddly squat about

what lump on the downtube??


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## Phaeton (3 Aug 2018)

Harsh but fair


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## Blue Hills (3 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> but cheating at what? you still havent answered the question?
> 
> also my ebike cost 3 times less than my custom Ti roadbike, you really need to do more investigation before making such stupid posts, about something you obviously know diddly squat about
> 
> ...


skipdiver did say why he personally considered it "cheating".

politely.

I myself have certain ideas about electric bikes. Personal ideas. Will save for another thread.


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## jowwy (3 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> skipdiver did say why he personally considered it "cheating".
> 
> politely.
> 
> I myself have certain ideas about electric bikes. Personal ideas. Will save for another thread.


Did he......i see nothing but an idiologist quote, that somehow states that people are cheating at pedalling

But yet again you only seem to pick up on my posts........so i'll politely ask you to block me if you dont like my ' straight to the point' replies


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## simongt (3 Aug 2018)

E bikes have their place for the unfortunate folk who because they are no longer able to do the 'full monty' so to speak because of age, disability, or previous injury limiting their abilities. But for those who are simply too lazy to pedal and buy an e bike, there is no reason to have one. 
Does this sound a fair judgement - ?


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## Blue Hills (3 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> Did he......i see nothing but an idiologist quote, that somehow states that people are cheating at pedalling
> 
> But yet again you only seem to pick up on my posts........so i'll politely ask you to block me if you dont like my ' straight to the point' replies


I now and again have countered posts from a variety of folk on here. Natural and good on a forum/in any sort of discussion. Always politely I hope. Your view that you are somehow being picked on maybe indicates that you yourself are some sort of snowflake. Ironic in view of some of your posts. For the record I have never blocked anyone (or reported anyone or any post for that matter) and do not intend to start now. I prefer to see folk as they are.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Aug 2018)

The future is bikes designed for both 27.5 and 29 wheels.


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## jowwy (3 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I now and again have countered posts from a variety of folk on here. Natural and good on a forum/in any sort of discussion. Always politely I hope. Your view that you are somehow being picked on maybe indicates that you yourself are some sort of snowflake. Ironic in view of some of your posts. For the record I have never blocked anyone (or reported anyone or any post for that matter) and do not intend to start now. I prefer to see folk as they are.


I never said i was being picked on and believe me, i'm no snowflake either


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## jowwy (3 Aug 2018)

simongt said:


> E bikes have their place for the unfortunate folk who because they are no longer able to do the 'full monty' so to speak because of age, disability, or previous injury limiting their abilities. But for those who are simply too lazy to pedal and buy an e bike, there is no reason to have one.
> Does this sound a fair judgement - ?


No its not a fair judgement.....who are you, I or anybody else, to stand in judgement of anyone elses bike, car, house or holiday purchase........to me, you are no one and have zeros rights to judge me or anyone else


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## screenman (3 Aug 2018)

I would rather see a person using a ebike than I would see them using a car.


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## Blue Hills (4 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> I never said i was being picked on and believe me, i'm no snowflake either



Suppose I must have been referring to this:



jowwy said:


> But yet again you only seem to pick up on my posts........


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## jowwy (4 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Suppose I must have been referring to this:


Pick my posts.......not picking on me, theres a difference. Now go away snowflake


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## Venod (4 Aug 2018)

Back to the OP

I think there is room for all wheel sizes, but will the manufactures see it this way.

I had a couple of decent 26 bikes so I resisted the 29 for a long time, after an accident, I could see it would be a while before I would be back off road so I sold both MTBs, when I felt confident enough to get back off road 27.5 seemed to be the way to go but after a bit of research it seems XC riders prefer 29 as most of my riding is XC I went with 29.

The 29 is not as good for technical bits as the 26 wheel bikes were, but I am riding over things without a second thought, that I would have considered as obstacles before, it doesn't accelerate like the 26 but once up to speed its a flyer.

If I had been smaller I would have have considered 27.5 or 26, purely because I don't like the look of small frames and big wheels, but the performance may outweigh the aesthetics so who knows.


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## simongt (7 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> No its not a fair judgement.....who are you, I or anybody else, to stand in judgement of anyone elses bike, car, house or holiday purchase........to me, you are no one and have zeros rights to judge me or anyone else


Define the difference between a judgement and an opinion.


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## jowwy (7 Aug 2018)

simongt said:


> Define the difference between a judgement and an opinion.


When a post asks is this a fair judgement?? Especially when the post contains ref: people who are too lazy to pedal.........thats a judgement and not an opinion in my book


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## Kajjal (7 Aug 2018)

simongt said:


> Define the difference between a judgement and an opinion.



You need to watch Judge Romesh Wednesday night.

https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/judge_romesh/


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## Crankarm (7 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> When a post asks is this a fair judgement?? Especially when the post contains ref: people who are too lazy to pedal.........thats a judgement and not an opinion in my book



Fait comment though. For the large number of e-bikes I see, even those Specialised S-works ones and top MTBs these people can't all have medical conditions, disabilities etc so they are just plain lazy or want to pull one over on AMOE cyclists. (All My Own Effort). If people think they can get away with something giving them an unfair advantage they will, in every walk of life this happens. Cycling is no different. Cheats imho.


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## Blue Hills (7 Aug 2018)

Interesting points you make crankarm and I agree with much of it - may be better to start a new thread though.


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## jowwy (7 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Fait comment though. For the large number of e-bikes I see, even those Specialised S-works ones and top MTBs these people can't all have medical conditions, disabilities etc so they are just plain lazy or want to pull one over on AMOE cyclists. (All My Own Effort). If people think they can get away with something giving them an unfair advantage they will, in every walk of life this happens. Cycling is no different. Cheats imho.


Again...cheating at what??? 

Not everyone is interested in racing and life itself isnt always a race.

Are the guys using light carbon frames and gears cheating, cause they are not equal to guys riding fixed single speed.....or does everyone have to fit into your narrow pigeon hole and conform to your idiolistic views.

Ebikes are now a part of cycling, they still need to be pedalled, just like any other bike. They just have assistance when required and its pretty easy to go over the 15mph limit on the flats and descents......so again, who are these people cheating?? And cheating at what??


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## Crankarm (7 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> Again...cheating at what???
> 
> Not everyone is interested in racing and life itself isnt always a race.
> 
> ...



Who said anything about racing? I guess you are an e-bike owner and user. Ebikes are for the slothful for the lazy or if used in racing against other non motorised bikes is cheating. But even then it is still cheating whether racing or not. At least I know my pedalling is All My Own Effort. If I want to ride a bike with a motor I ride my motorbike. The fact that Ebike owners and users consider themselves cyclists is laughable. They are in denial if they think they are. The fact that they have now infiltrated forums such as this and pass themselves off as cyclists in the true sense is their deception. I mean how come they are banging their drum trying to justify their sloth on a thread about the size of MTB wheels? Any opportunity. They must all feel guilty.


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## BSOh (7 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Fait comment though. For the large number of e-bikes I see, even those Specialised S-works ones and top MTBs these people can't all have medical conditions, disabilities etc so they are just plain lazy or want to pull one over on AMOE cyclists. (All My Own Effort). If people think they can get away with something giving them an unfair advantage they will, in every walk of life this happens. Cycling is no different. Cheats imho.



If I had the cash I'd buy one tomorrow. I don't want to get one up on anyone else. I don't give a fark what other cyclists do. Cycling for me is about the pleasure of being outdoors, nothing more. Would be nice to have a little help to go that bit further. Am I lazy? I work full time and go to the gym 5 days a week, so I don't think I am. An ebike for me would just be about the fun of it.


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## Crankarm (7 Aug 2018)

BSOh said:


> If I had the cash I'd buy one tomorrow. I don't want to get one up on anyone else. I don't give a fark what other cyclists do. Cycling for me is about the pleasure of being outdoors, nothing more. Would be nice *to have a little help* to go that bit further. Am I lazy? I work full time and go to the gym 5 days a week, so I don't think I am. An ebike for me would just be about the fun of it.



Well I call this cheating by your own admission you need a "little help". Don't try to justify you riding an Ebike by saying how fit you think you are going to the gym 5 days a week. You are clearly not that fit, nor have self discipline nor motivation to improve your cycling fitness, instead you say you would prefer to give in to temptation and ride an Ebike instead presumably as you find the prospect of not having to expend so much effort or energy very attractive. But you are not a cyclist in the traditional purist sense but quite literally a motor cyclist.


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## BSOh (7 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Well I call this cheating by your own admission you need a "little help". Don't try to justify you riding an Ebike by saying how fit you think you are going to the gym 5 days a week. You are clearly not that fit, nor have self discipline nor motivation to improve your cycling fitness, instead you say you would prefer to give in to temptation and ride an Ebike instead presumably as you find the prospect of not having to expend so much effort or energy very attractive. But you are not a cyclist in the traditional purist sense but quite literally a motor cyclist.



I am nothing but a lazy cheat and I dutifully promise that in the future I will refer to myself a motor cyclist (if I ever actually buy one) 

As for the thread I would have to say 27.5 as I'm tiny so I'd prob have ridiculous toe overlap and look like a clown on a 29er.


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## jowwy (8 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Who said anything about racing? I guess you are an e-bike owner and user. Ebikes are for the slothful for the lazy or if used in racing against other non motorised bikes is cheating. But even then it is still cheating whether racing or not. At least I know my pedalling is All My Own Effort. If I want to ride a bike with a motor I ride my motorbike. The fact that Ebike owners and users consider themselves cyclists is laughable. They are in denial if they think they are. The fact that they have now infiltrated forums such as this and pass themselves off as cyclists in the true sense is their deception. I mean how come they are banging their drum trying to justify their sloth on a thread about the size of MTB wheels? Any opportunity. They must all feel guilty.


Another planktun idiot with no clue on what your talking about........

I am mighty cause i can pedal my bike and i bet its a lightweight carbon one with plenty of gears to make the hills easier........gears are cheating too.

Get yourself a fixed single speed and be a real hero


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## PhilDawson8270 (8 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Who said anything about racing? I guess you are an e-bike owner and user. Ebikes are for the slothful for the lazy or if used in racing against other non motorised bikes is cheating. But even then it is still cheating whether racing or not. At least I know my pedalling is All My Own Effort. If I want to ride a bike with a motor I ride my motorbike. The fact that Ebike owners and users consider themselves cyclists is laughable. They are in denial if they think they are. The fact that they have now infiltrated forums such as this and pass themselves off as cyclists in the true sense is their deception. I mean how come they are banging their drum trying to justify their sloth on a thread about the size of MTB wheels? Any opportunity. They must all feel guilty.



Don’t talk rubbish. Electric bikes have helped keep s lot of old and injured people out cycling. 

I tried one the other day, I wouldn’t say I’m unfit either since I play several sports at a reasonable level. 

However the e bike is an ideal commuter, decent pace to work without arriving sweaty. 

Stop being so judgemental, you’ll be complaining about single occupancy cars soon and how people should be cycling, then do everything you can to put them off. Far too many people like this.


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## Heltor Chasca (8 Aug 2018)

As said upthread: I ride small frames. To my eye, 29s don’t look as good as 27.5s. I also prefer the lower stand over height on MTBs. And with all the data, research and feedback on handling, ride etc, the gains are negligible between the 2 sizes. In my case I just happened to get a great deal on a 27.5. And to be honest if a better deal had come up with 29s I would have gone with that.


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## Jody (8 Aug 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Cheats imho.



There are more reasons for people wanting e-bikes other than shear laziness, cheating or disability. 

Let's start a new thread and not de-rail this one.


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## Kajjal (8 Aug 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> As said upthread: I ride small frames. To my eye, 29s don’t look as good as 27.5s. I also prefer the lower stand over height on MTBs. And with all the data, research and feedback on handling, ride etc, the gains are negligible between the 2 sizes. In my case I just happened to get a great deal on a 27.5. And to be honest if a better deal had come up with 29s I would have gone with that.



The main thing is the bike fits you well and makes you want to get out and ride. I much prefer 29s as they suit my riding style and riding mainly on natural trails. I also have a mid 1990’s xc hardtail with 3 x 8 gearing which I have now ridden happily enough for over two decades. It is now in semi retirement abroad in my relatives garage as they live near a forest leading into mountains I ride in when visiting.


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## Threevok (8 Aug 2018)

Enough of this - the answer is quite simple

The wheelsize of the future is 0

We will all be riding hoverbikes

End of


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## Heltor Chasca (8 Aug 2018)

Threevok said:


> Enough of this - the answer is quite simple
> 
> The wheelsize of the future is 0
> 
> ...



Yebbut, we are still in the R&D phase with magic carpets. It will take a while yet.


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## ChrisEyles (8 Aug 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> And with all the data, research and feedback on handling, ride etc, the gains are negligible between the 2 sizes.



That's quite interesting. I can well believe the gains in terms of race times are marginal between the two, but my perception of the 29ers I've ridden have been that they handle noticeably differently to my usual 26ers, certainly differently enough to justify a strong preference for one or the other depending on the rider and trails being ridden.


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## Kajjal (8 Aug 2018)

ChrisEyles said:


> That's quite interesting. I can well believe the gains in terms of race times are marginal between the two, but my perception of the 29ers I've ridden have been that they handle noticeably differently to my usual 26ers, certainly differently enough to justify a strong preference for one or the other depending on the rider and trails being ridden.



As in my post above my 26” mid 1990’s hardtail is a very different bike to my recent 29” xc hardtail. While is it more manoeuvrable it gets knocked around more and has less grip on steep loose climbs. But also the geometry, components and construction is different which also makes a difference.


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## Heltor Chasca (8 Aug 2018)

ChrisEyles said:


> That's quite interesting. I can well believe the gains in terms of race times are marginal between the two, but my perception of the 29ers I've ridden have been that they handle noticeably differently to my usual 26ers, certainly differently enough to justify a strong preference for one or the other depending on the rider and trails being ridden.



Sure, I agree. To clarify: My 10 cent opinion and sizes in my post were about 27.5 and 29s as per the thread.


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## Kbrook (9 Aug 2018)

Any takers for this ?

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/free-48-hour-electric-bike-trial-halfords-3007721


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## jowwy (9 Aug 2018)

Kbrook said:


> Any takers for this ?
> 
> https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/free-48-hour-electric-bike-trial-halfords-3007721


crankarm can't wait..........


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## Threevok (9 Aug 2018)

jowwy said:


> crankarm can't wait..........


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## Phaeton (9 Aug 2018)

I'm trying to get my wife to look at an ebike, I may just accidently swing round that way & stumble across this


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