# Not a mobile phone - a LAPTOP!



## ufkacbln (12 Feb 2009)

On the news tonight - a lorry driver who killed 6 people.

It is claimed he was using a LAPTOP whilst driving.

How stupid can someone be?


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## ACS (12 Feb 2009)

I follow a woman in a blue clio, most mornings, who puts on her make up while doing 50mph a long a narrow country road. If fact a couple of days back she was seen, not by me, doing her make up and chatting on the mobile.


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## Twenty Inch (13 Feb 2009)

I'm not sure the whole story has been told re: the driver with the laptop.

I used to work in fruit and veg. Many a time I've heard our Operations Director or Senior Buyer screaming "I don't care what it takes, get the fruit to me by 8am tomorrow for packing or we reject the lot" to a Spanish or Italian supplier. This inevitably meant some knackered driver being told to go out of hours and make sure the produce was delivered. The companies don't care as if the driver is stopped, he'll be sanctioned. The managers behind him who are telling him to deliver it on time or he'll lose his job, and the people behind them, are never in the firing line.

So while this driver undeniably killed people because he was checking his laptop, he may have been told that if he didn't check it, he'd lose his job. To me, that makes the managers culpable too.


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## thomas (15 Feb 2009)

Around UNI tonnes off delivery van drivers are tapping away on a little PDA computer thing. They're not going fast, but fast enough to hurt someone.


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## Rhythm Thief (15 Feb 2009)

Twenty Inch said:


> I'm not sure the whole story has been told re: the driver with the laptop.
> 
> I used to work in fruit and veg. Many a time I've heard our Operations Director or Senior Buyer screaming "I don't care what it takes, get the fruit to me by 8am tomorrow for packing or we reject the lot" to a Spanish or Italian supplier. This inevitably meant some knackered driver being told to go out of hours and make sure the produce was delivered. The companies don't care as if the driver is stopped, he'll be sanctioned. The managers behind him who are telling him to deliver it on time or he'll lose his job, and the people behind them, are never in the firing line.
> 
> So *while this driver undeniably killed people because he was checking his laptop*, he may have been told that if he didn't check it, he'd lose his job. To me, that makes the managers culpable too.



While I agree with the general point you're making, as far as I understand it they've just found a laptop in his cab. The driver claims he wasn't using it, the police say that it was in a position within the cab where it could be seen by the driver. Nothing has been proven either way yet.


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## thomas (15 Feb 2009)

Around UNI tonnes off delivery van drivers are tapping away on a little PDA computer thing. They're not going fast, but fast enough to hurt someone.


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## Tony (17 Feb 2009)

..and Halfords sell DVD players that plug into the car radio slot. It's OK, because they advise you not to watch them while driving.


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## jonesy (17 Feb 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> While I agree with the general point you're making, as far as I understand it they've just found a laptop in his cab. The driver claims he wasn't using it, the police say that it was in a position within the cab where it could be seen by the driver. Nothing has been proven either way yet.



Leaving aside the specifics of this particular case, there is a general point about attitudes to safety in the haulage industry. Mobile phone use by lorry drivers seems to be a normal part of the job and I wouldn't be at all surprised if use of distracting IT equipment was also expected. This demonstrates a lack of proper enforcement: hauliers should be treated like any other business under health and safety rules and anyone encouraging their employees to use equipment dangerously should be closed down. I'm surprised more isn't done about mobile phone use as it ought to be quite easy to deal with hauliers, given that they are readily easily identified and have an O licence to lose. As they also have customers to lose, they'd quickly get the message if any driver spotted using a phone was pulled over, the vehicle impounded and the driver told to make his own way home.


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## John the Monkey (17 Feb 2009)

I'm still reeling slightly from realising that I live in a country where killing 6 people whilst driving is careless, as opposed to dangerous in terms of law.


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## Rhythm Thief (17 Feb 2009)

Jonesy - I absolutely agree. I've worked for a few firms who have supplied me with a mobile phone with no hands free kit in the cab, and clearly expected me to answer it while driving.


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## Rhythm Thief (17 Feb 2009)

User3143 said:


> Nowadays with most driving firms from my experience if they want you to go over your hours and fly around chasing the clock then they are not worth it and they are shoot companies to work for.



I agree with this, too. I'd never go over my hours - apart from anything else, who wants to work for longer? - and I wouldn't work for long for anyone who expected me to.


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## Twenty Inch (18 Feb 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I agree with this, too. I'd never go over my hours - apart from anything else, who wants to work for longer? - and I wouldn't work for long for anyone who expected me to.



He was likely working for a Spanish company, which afaik has looser employment legislation, less HR protection, a more cavalier attitude to safety issues, and his employer probably has a lot of influence in the local labour market. Many parts of Spain are dependent on one key industry - fall out with one employer, you fall out with all of them. I'm only speaking from my experience living and working in Spain and with Spanish companies, but there are practises going on in some areas that are positively feudal.


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## kozzach (20 Feb 2009)

man that's terrible, I feel so bad for the families of both the victims and the driver. Imagine that this guy also has to live the rest of his life with their blood on his hands. 
Horrible!


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## Bad Company (27 Feb 2009)

Why is using a telephone while driving illegal but using CB radio is considered ok?


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## John the Monkey (27 Feb 2009)

Bad Company said:


> Why is using a telephone while driving illegal but using CB radio is considered ok?



Well, using hands-free is legal, although some research shows that it makes you more likely to be involved in a collision. I'd hesitate to use the word "ok" in this context - I think "legal" would be a better term.


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## jonesy (27 Feb 2009)

John the Monkey said:


> Well, using hands-free is legal, although some research shows that it makes you more likely to be involved in a collision. I'd hesitate to use the word "ok" in this context - I think "legal" would be a better term.



Yes, that is right. Hands free is very distracting. I'm sure CB distracts as well, though it never achieved the level of widespread use that mobile phones have and I suspect that the sort of conversations people have on it are shorter and less mentally taxing because CB simply isn't as good as a phone for two way discussion.


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## kyuss (1 Mar 2009)

Bad Company said:


> Why is using a telephone while driving illegal but using CB radio is considered ok?



Or even worse, sat nav. I'm still confused how mobiles are seen as a bad thing yet sat nav (which uses a visual medium and often needs the driver to take their eyes off the road) is seen as being perfectly acceptable and even actively promoted.  Where is the difference in this driver re-plotting his route on a laptop and someone doing the same thing on a sat nav?

IMO using _anything_ that purposefully takes a drivers attention away from controlling their vehicle in a safe and appropriate manner should be banned. That would include phones, laptops, sat nav, putting on makeup, reading a map, eating a pie, smoking a cigarette, getting a blowjob etc. It's not a ****ing joke. People die when you're not paying attention. In any other facet of life the consequenses of putting other peoples lives in danger in this manner would incur harsh penalties. It seems if you drive a car you're immune from any prosecution that reflects the consequences of any bad judgement or lack of attention.


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## zimzum42 (1 Mar 2009)

I got a BJ on the M40 once, concentration was fine, only problem was when I got to my destination, go out of the car, and my trousers fell down....


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## ufkacbln (1 Mar 2009)

Personally I have always had a problem with the slightly hypocritical way we treat in vehicles .

SafeSpeed (Bless their warped statistics) have sent a lot of effort "proving" that glancing at the speedometer kills thousands per year

Yet looking at a SatNav,programming a SatNav, changing a CD, altering the thermostat settings or even answering a mobile phone is not considered a problem. 

Blank dashboard is the answer. Nothing excep tthe speedometer allowed in reach of the driver or operable whilst driving?


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## Rhythm Thief (1 Mar 2009)

Really, though, if you're unable to drive safely without doing anything other than looking at the speedometer, you're not going to make a very good driver anyway. I'd agree that using a Satnav, laptop, etc. is not good practice, but I remember one bloke on here (or maybe C+) saying that his dad wouldn't reach for a sweet while he was driving, he'd get his wife to feed it to him instead. Well, a) having someone else feed you a sweet is arguably more distracting than just reaching for the thing, and  it's hardly dangerous to eat sweets while driving anyway. I do it most days. And I use a hands free kit, which I don't find distracting. I've even been known to glance at an A-Z, on the grounds that it's arguably less dangerous to do that than it is to reverse an artic out of a dead end street or pedestrian precinct onto a busy main road.


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## ColinJ (1 Mar 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I remember one bloke on here (or maybe C+) saying that his dad wouldn't reach for a sweet while he was driving, he'd get his wife to feed it to him instead. Well, a) having someone else feed you a sweet is arguably more distracting than just reaching for the thing, and  it's hardly dangerous to eat sweets while driving anyway. I do it most days. And I use a hands free kit, which I don't find distracting. I've even been known to glance at an A-Z, on the grounds that it's arguably less dangerous to do that than it is to reverse an artic out of a dead end street or pedestrian precinct onto a busy main road.


Well, here's an example of what can happen if you don't keep your eyes on the road. Grey Van Man allegedly just glanced down to insert a cassette in his stereo and promptly drove off a straight stretch of road into his victims.


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## jonesy (1 Mar 2009)

Rhythm Thief said:


> Really, though, if you're unable to drive safely without doing anything other than looking at the speedometer, you're not going to make a very good driver anyway. I'd agree that using a Satnav, laptop, etc. is not good practice, but I remember one bloke on here (or maybe C+) saying that his dad wouldn't reach for a sweet while he was driving, he'd get his wife to feed it to him instead. Well, a) having someone else feed you a sweet is arguably more distracting than just reaching for the thing, and  it's hardly dangerous to eat sweets while driving anyway. I do it most days.* And I use a hands free kit, which I don't find distracting. *I've even been known to glance at an A-Z, on the grounds that it's arguably less dangerous to do that than it is to reverse an artic out of a dead end street or pedestrian precinct onto a busy main road.



The key issue is the level of mental distraction, and I'm afraid the research shows that using hands-free phones does impair driving.
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/r...e?_benchmarking_the_impairment_to_alcohol.htm


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## Rhythm Thief (2 Mar 2009)

Unfortunately, and much as I'd like to do without the thing, I don't think I'd last long in my job if I started refusing to answer a phone via a legal and properly installed hands free kit.


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