# Let's Talk About Brakes ...



## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Hello all,

I'm interested in hearing your opinion on MTB brakes :

1) What is your favourite MTB brake ?

2) Why ?

3) How reasonably ( or unreasonably ) priced are said Brakes ?

4) Modulation and Stopping Power ?

Any input would be appreciated !!

Thanks.


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## Drago (22 Aug 2017)

SLX. The sweet point betwixt price, performance, reliability , cost and general brakiness.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> SLX. The sweet point betwixt price, performance, reliability , cost and general brakiness.


Is SLX below XT in the Shimano's 'ranking' ?


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

SLX, or XT. Nowt to choose between them apart from the bite-point adjuster. Well-designed, great stopping power, and affordable. Ergonomically excellent, with their one-finger levers, and cammed (servo-wave) resting positions meaning no more singing rotors. I used to be a Hope fanboi, but the last couple of Shimano iterations have put paid to that. When I was building bikes a year or two ago Shimano had the quality and ease of use edge over Avid, but there may have been improvements in their offerings since then.


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Is SLX below XT in the Shimano's 'ranking' ?


Yes, hierachically, but in terms of performance there's not much in it.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> SLX, or XT. Nowt to choose between them apart from the bite-point adjuster. Well-designed, great stopping power, and affordable. Ergonomically excellent, with their one-finger levers, and cammed (servo-wave) resting positions meaning no more singing rotors. I used to be a Hope fanboi, but the last couple of Shimano iterations have put paid to that. When I was building bikes a year or two ago Shimano had the quality and ease of use edge over Avid, but there may have been improvements in their offerings since then.


How was your experience with the Hopes ?
What model did you have ?


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> Yes, hierachically, but in terms of performance there's not much in it.


I often find this to be true with shimano, much like the difference between XT and XTR components, despite the rather noticeable difference in price.


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## Jody (22 Aug 2017)

SLX or XT for me also. They are powerful, cheap and have a great feel for general riding. I wouldn't go back to Avid and would be reluctant dropping big money on Hope brakes. Hope do make good looking stuff though.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Jody said:


> SLX or XT for me also. They are powerful, cheap and have a great feel for general riding. I wouldn't go back to Avid and would be reluctant dropping big money on Hope brakes. Hope do make good looking stuff though.


I've found that my XT's are losing power after a significantly short period of time ! 
Disappointing considering they're only 3 months old !
It seems that after braking, a ticking sound can be heard from the rotors and they seem to heat up incredibly quickly. 
Potentially looking for a change to Hope !!


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> How was your experience with the Hopes ?
> What model did you have ?


I had some M4s. Lovely they were, and plenty of stopping power, but the feel was "progressive" compared with the Shimanos. They were user-serviceable, and needed to be, with Dot 4 fluid and loads of diaphragms and seals. They needed bleeding a fair bit, whereas the Shimanos are very much fit and forget....once they're sorted and bled once they rarely need touching until it's time to change pads. 

One criticism of Shimano is that occasionally the seals on the caliper or reservoir fail, and you can't replace them without buying a whole new reservoir or caliper. Well, yer pays yer money and all that, but one of the reasons Hope built such a great reputation for customer service was because they had plenty of practice at replacing bits and pieces that didn't quite cut the mustard. Hope look far more beautiful.......


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## Threevok (22 Aug 2017)

I have LX trekking brakes on the SS. They are surprisingly good when coupled with 180mm rotors.

I have Avid Elixir 1s on the GT, which I bought off a bloke on another forum - they came straight off a new bike he bought. I must be lucky, because they haven't caused me any of the usual problems associated with these brakes.

The only problem I had was last summer - when the heat caused them to lock on - this was soon cured by upgrading the fluid from Dot 4.0 to Dot 5.1. That was the only time I have had to look at the fluid in 2 years.


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I've found that my XT's are losing power after a significantly short period of time !
> Disappointing considering they're only 3 months old !
> It seems that after braking, a ticking sound can be heard from the rotors and they seem to heat up incredibly quickly.
> Potentially looking for a change to Hope !!


Check your pads and get some finned ones if you are cooking them that quickly. Don't drag them!


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> I had some M4s. Lovely they were, and plenty of stopping power, but the feel was "progressive" compared with the Shimanos. They were user-serviceable, and needed to be, with Dot 4 fluid and loads of diaphragms and seals. They needed bleeding a fair bit, whereas the Shimanos are very much fit and forget....once they're sorted and bled once they rarely need touching until it's time to change pads.
> 
> One criticism of Shimano is that occasionally the seals on the caliper or reservoir fail, and you can't replace them without buying a whole new reservoir or caliper. Well, yer pays yer money and all that, but one of the reasons Hope built such a great reputation for customer service was because they had plenty of practice at replacing bits and pieces that didn't quite cut the mustard. Hope look far more beautiful.......


I'm thinking of an upgrade to some E4's myself.
Much prefer the look of the hopes !

I do have respect for Shimano and they're reasonable prices but can't quite get over the beauty, quality and Made in England-ness of them


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Threevok said:


> I have LX trekking brakes on the SS. They are surprisingly good when coupled with 180mm rotors.
> 
> I have Avid Elixir 1s on the GT, which I bought off a bloke on another forum - they came straight off a new bike he bought. I must be lucky, because they haven't caused me any of the usual problems associated with these brakes.
> 
> The only problem I had was last summer - when the heat caused them to lock on - this was soon cured by upgrading the fluid from Dot 4.0 to Dot 5.1. That was the only time I have had to look at the fluid in 2 years.


So no bleeding in two whole years ?


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I'm thinking of an upgrade to some E4's myself.
> Much prefer the look of the hopes !
> 
> I do have respect for Shimano and they're reasonable prices but can't quite get over the beauty, quality and Made in England-ness of them


Exquisitely chiselled from a single billet of Mythril using tools fashioned from Elves' eyelashes. In Barnoldswick.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> Check your pads and get some finned ones if you are cooking them that quickly. Don't drag them!


I'd say after a mere 5 seconds of light braking the rotors are hot to the touch ??


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I'd say after a mere 5 seconds of light braking the rotors are hot to the touch ??


Are they worn to the metal? Sounds like it. Try some Race Matrix or Kevlar pads.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> Exquisitely chiselled from a single billet of Mythril using tools fashioned from Elves' eyelashes. In Barnoldswick.


Sounds good to me 

Jokes aside, I do love a good bit of pure English engineering, especially when they're as stunning as many Hope products !


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## Threevok (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> So no bleeding in two whole years ?



Until last summer - No, none at all. The hoses were far too long (they came off a FS bike) but I refused to shorten them until they needed bleeding. - Two years on, the hoses still looked like this


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> Are they worn to the metal? Sounds like it. Try some Race Matrix or Kevlar pads.


I don't think so, as I say the bike is only a few months old and I never really use the brakes wildly !!


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Threevok said:


> Until last summer - No, none at all. The hoses were far too long (they came off a FS bike) but I refused to shorten them until they needed bleeding. - Two years on, the hoses still looked like this


Nothing wrong with that


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I don't think so, as I say the bike is only a few months old and I never really use the brakes wildly !!


I'd check them for wear. Nothing last forever.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> I'd check them for wear. Nothing last forever.


I will do ! 

Thanks for the advice ! 

What other brakes have you had experience with ?


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## Drago (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I don't think so, as I say the bike is only a few months old and I never really use the brakes wildly !!



Its possible to wear out MTB pads in an afternoon in the right - or wrong - conditions.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> Its possible to wear out MTB pads in an afternoon in the right - or wrong - conditions.


Wow !! 
Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to be honest


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## Jody (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I'd say after a mere 5 seconds of light braking the rotors are hot to the touch ??



All discs will be hot to the touch after 5 second's. Doesn't matter what brand or disc used.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Jody said:


> All discs will be hot to the touch after 5 second's. Doesn't matter what brand or disc used.


Really ?


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## Jody (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Disappointing considering they're only 3 months old !
> It seems that after braking, a ticking sound can be heard from the rotors and they seem to heat up incredibly quickly.
> Potentially looking for a change to Hope !!



How much do you weigh and how much do you lean on the brakes? If your discs haven't gone all shades of purple then they haven't been that hot.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Really ?


Yes really. What do you think your kinetic energy is turned into? Avid is excellent for turning it into noise but the rest of the manufacturers make it go into heat.


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## Jody (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Really ?



Of course they will. One good stop from speed and they will be too hot to touch


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Jody said:


> How much do you weigh and how much do you lean on the brakes? If your discs haven't gone all shades of purple then they haven't been that hot.


I weigh like 185 lbs.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Yes really. What do you think your kinetic energy is turned into? Avid is excellent for turning it into noise but the rest of the manufacturers make it go into heat.


Yes but my brake power fades a lot after one solid brake ??


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## I like Skol (22 Aug 2017)

Stop poncing about, XT all the way. I'm running them on two bikes and have used the 2 yr warranty once when the front caliper on my hybrid commuter started weeping. Apart from that they just work, and work,and work, and..... You get the idea!
The rear brake on my commuter has done over 15,000 miles of neglected use in all conditions including heavily gritted winter roads but is still running sweet. Not so much as a bleed, just occasional pads when the metal backing plates start grinding on the disc 
Now running a third set, the R785 road version of the XT caliper and these seem equally as powerful but possibly more sensitive to contamination (or perhaps because they don't really get muddy they just don't get scrubbed up from time to time?) in my experience.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Stop poncing about, XT all the way. I'm running them on two bikes and have used the 2 yr warranty once when the front caliper on my hybrid commuter started weeping. Apart from that they just work, and work,and work, and..... You get the idea!
> The rear brake on my commuter has done over 15,000 miles of neglected use in all conditions including heavily gritted winter roads but is still running sweet. Not so much as a bleed, just occasional pads when the metal backing plates start grinding on the disc
> Now running a third set, the R785 road version of the XT caliper and these seem equally as powerful but possibly more sensitive to contamination (or perhaps because they don't really get muddy they just don't get scrubbed up from time to time?) in my experience.


Poncing ?


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## Levo-Lon (22 Aug 2017)

I have sram guide R superb
I'll have hope when the guide brakes need changing..tho it will probably be a new bike before they wear out.
Im not a big fan of the shimano brakes but that's my own view, they are superb but i dont like the feel. Or look if im honest. But slx is the wise choice for the smart buy.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

meta lon said:


> I have sram guide R superb
> I'll have hope when the guide brakes need changing..tho it will probably be a new bike before they wear out.
> Im not a big fan of the shimano brakes but that's my own view, they are superb but i dont like the feel. Or look if im honest. But slx is the wise choice for the smart buy.


I've had SRAM Guide before, lever feel is much better than shimano in my opinion !

Then hopes lever feel is better again !


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## Drago (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Poncing ?



English vernacular. Poncing, or mincing in military vernacular = messing, faffing, joking, dawdling, and generally doing anything except the job in hand.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> English vernacular. Poncing, or mincing in military vernacular = messing, faffing, joking, dawdling, and generally doing anything except the job in hand.


Oh, how does that fit contextually to the conversation ?


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Oh, how does that fit contextually to the conversation ?


Unless I missed Skolly's point, I think he meant failing to resist the irresistible draw to Hope's bejewelled bling. 

You'll have to excuse his way with words; , Northerner and all that.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> Unless I missed Skolly's point, I think he meant failing to resist the irresistible draw to Hope's bejewelled bling.
> 
> You'll have to excuse his way with words; , Northerner and all that.


I'm from Newcastle myself !!

And in response ... I can't resist the bling ?!!!!!


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## Cubist (22 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I'm from Newcastle myself !!
> 
> And in response ... I can't resist the bling ?!!!!!


@I like Skol just says it how he sees it. In fact he's so down to earth that if he lived any nearer to your toolbox he'd have a wooden handle.


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## BretonM (22 Aug 2017)

Cubist said:


> @I like Skol just says it how he sees it. In fact he's so down to earth that if he lived any nearer to your toolbox he'd have a wooden handle.


Hahaha !! 

He sounds like a good chap !


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## Jody (23 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Yes but my brake power fades a lot after one solid brake ??



If your brakes genuinely lose power after one stop then there is something wrong. Take them back to the shop if they are three months old. But i don't see a reason for them to lose power if working on the initial bite other than dragging them.

I get the feeling you just want Hope brakes. If so just swap the brakes and put something else on.


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## Drago (23 Aug 2017)

Hope brakes drove me to Basil Fawltyesque levels of violence towards my bicycles. In order to retain some sanity and avoid a prison sentence i ditched them for Shimano and I've been quietly happy ever since.

Sexy they are not. Discretely effective and reliable (as hydro cycle brakes ever get) they are.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> Poncing ?




Yes poncing. As in:



BretonM said:


> I've had SRAM Guide before, lever feel is much better than shimano in my opinion !



and...



BretonM said:


> Then hopes lever feel is better again !



and...



BretonM said:


> Potentially looking for a change to Hope !!



and...


BretonM said:


> I do have respect for Shimano and they're reasonable prices but can't quite get over the beauty, quality and Made in England-ness of them [Hope]


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## BretonM (23 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Yes poncing. As in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You've gone quite the ways to prove your point there !

Yet I don't understand what the problem is, these are simply my opinion and I've asked for others opinions. They've gave them and I don't see you question there's ?

What's the problem ?


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## I like Skol (23 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> You've gone quite the ways to prove your point there !
> 
> Yet I don't understand what the problem is, these are simply my opinion and I've asked for others opinions. They've gave them and I don't see you question there's ?
> 
> What's the problem ?


My point actually. The point I, and it seems many others are trying to make is that the shimano brakes have a reputation for reliability and sensible performance at a sensible price. You may get lighter, more powerful or more aesthetically pleasing products from other manufacturers but the typical tale from owners of these products are that they are far more needy of servicing and adjustment than their Shimano counterparts.
If you want your brakes to work at the start of the ride and at the end of the ride, at the start of the tour and at the end of the tour, at the start of the year and at the end of the year, then get the Shi ano ones. Simples!


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## BretonM (23 Aug 2017)

I like Skol said:


> My point actually. The point I, and it seems many others are trying to make is that the shimano brakes have a reputation for reliability and sensible performance at a sensible price. You may get lighter, more powerful or more aesthetically pleasing products from other manufacturers but the typical tale from owners of these products are that they are far more needy of servicing and adjustment than their Shimano counterparts.
> If you want your brakes to work at the start of the ride and at the end of the ride, at the start of the tour and at the end of the tour, at the start of the year and at the end of the year, then get the Shi ano ones. Simples!



Thanks for your opinion ! 

That's all I wanted in this forum !


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## Nigeyy (23 Aug 2017)

Hmmm here are some completely useless thoughts from me: my favourite brake I've used is Avid Elixir 1s. But.....

I think I may be the only person in the known MTB world who hasn't had problems* with them (mine must have been made mid week, definitely not on a Friday). They've been fantastic, great modulation and power. But....

Based on everyone's experience I wouldn't get them again; seems like I just purely lucked out.

*OK not 100% accurate. In the winter I bled the brakes -not because I needed to based on feel, but because the fluid in them must have been at least 5 years old. After much fiddling around, I had the brakes perfect, nary an errant air bubble in there..... But then came Spring and I took the bike out to find out within 5 minutes the brakes started to severely bind. I ended up letting some fluid out, and I was fine -my theory is that I bled them so well, then came Spring with warmer weather and the fluid expanded..... Anyway, back to the way they were now, so no problems!


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## Drago (24 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> ... but can't quite get over the beauty, quality and Made in England-ness of them



Don't confuse a shiny attractive machine finish with "quality". 

The former is merely bling, of which Hope brakes have plenty.

The latter is simp!y fitness for purpose, and if decent reliability is on your list then that's not an attribute Hope's possess.

Little point having sexy looking brakes that no one can admire because they're acting up again...


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## BretonM (26 Aug 2017)

I see what you mean ! 

Perhaps a different option would be better ! 

What would you recommend, my budget is pretty high ?


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## Yellow Saddle (27 Aug 2017)

Would someone please recommend Hope so that the OP can hear what he wants and we can forget about this thread?


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## fossyant (27 Aug 2017)

Guide RS but that's what came on the bike. I'll probably stick with the SRAM if I get another MTB as bleed kits and pads will be compatible.


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## fossyant (27 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Would someone please recommend Hope so that the OP can hear what he wants and we can forget about this thread?



Don't be daft...


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## BretonM (27 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Would someone please recommend Hope so that the OP can hear what he wants and we can forget about this thread?


I've just said that a different option may be preferable ! 

I like Hope, obviously but after hearing everyone tell me that I'm wrong for wanting the bling and that they can be unreliable, I've changed my mind ! 

I wanted advice not criticism.


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## BretonM (27 Aug 2017)

fossyant said:


> Guide RS but that's what came on the bike. I'll probably stick with the SRAM if I get another MTB as bleed kits and pads will be compatible.


Yeah I've heard great things about the Guide RS.

How easy is the bleeding process ?



fossyant said:


> Don't be daft...



Thanks. As I say I've changed my mind from the Hopes and simply wanted another opinion not a snarky comment back !

Good advice from you @fossyant as usual !


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## Drago (27 Aug 2017)

SLX, as aforementioned, are the sweet spot for performance, price, weight and reliability, and are very highly regarded. However, shop about and you may find XT for not much more.

Now, may as well lock the thread


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## Dan B (27 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Would someone please recommend Hope so that the OP can hear what he wants and we can forget about this thread?


Triumph of Hope over experience?


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## fossyant (27 Aug 2017)

From what I believe, the bleed process on the Guides is simple with the bleed kit. You can't go wrong with SLX/XT/GUIDE. Hope's are very nice, but I'd personally stick to black as I'm not a fan of bling colours on parts.


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## Yellow Saddle (27 Aug 2017)

fossyant said:


> From what I believe, the bleed process on the Guides is simple with the bleed kit. You can't go wrong with SLX/XT/GUIDE. Hope's are very nice, but I'd personally stick to black as I'm not a fan of bling colours on parts.


Hopes come in black. There is hope after all.


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## BretonM (27 Aug 2017)

Dan B said:


> Triumph of Hope over experience?


What do you mean ?


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## BretonM (27 Aug 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Hopes come in black. There is hope after all.


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## lpretro1 (28 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> I've just said that a different option may be preferable !
> 
> I like Hope, obviously but after hearing everyone tell me that I'm wrong for wanting the bling and that they can be unreliable, I've changed my mind !
> 
> I wanted advice not criticism.


Had Hope brakes on two bikes for years and never a glitch


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## BretonM (28 Aug 2017)

lpretro1 said:


> Had Hope brakes on two bikes for years and never a glitch


How Is modulation and overall stopping power ?

Worth the money ?


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## gelfy666 (28 Aug 2017)

I've just had some Hope E4s loved them but the rear has let me down today on their 4th ride, not sure why yet, but I was decending and all of a sudden there was nothing there.


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## I like Skol (28 Aug 2017)

lpretro1 said:


> Had Hope brakes on two bikes for years and never a glitch


I don't want to single out a single forum member but ipetro has given some really, really, really dangerously duff brake advice in the past (IMO) and I suggest you take his suggestions with a pinch of salt. This is just my opinion but maybe others @Yellow Saddle will back me up here?


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## lpretro1 (29 Aug 2017)

BretonM said:


> How Is modulation and overall stopping power ?
> 
> Worth the money ?


Personally I like the fact that you can adjust the bite point to suit how you like the brake to feel and the stopping power for me is good - I do long xc rides most of the time with occasional visits to trail centres if that's any help. They are expensive compared to Shimano but again I personally like the fact that you can get every last little spare from Hope - and they are a british company too


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## Joey Shabadoo (4 Sep 2017)

How easy a job is it to unship mechanical disc brakes and fit hydraulic?


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## Jody (4 Sep 2017)

Fitting is really easy but depends if the brake pipes need reducing in length. Some brands are easier to shorten than others. May need to re bleed depending on what you have.


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## rusty bearing (4 Sep 2017)

I like Skol said:


> I don't want to single out a single forum member but ipetro has given some really, really, really dangerously duff brake advice in the past (IMO) and I suggest you take his suggestions with a pinch of salt. This is just my opinion but maybe others @Yellow Saddle will back me up here?



Such as?


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## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

I am not about to trawl through all his old posts but straight away I searched and found THIS which while maybe not dangerous directly does demonstrate a lack of understanding. I have also found THIS howler, again bollix! Both examples may not be directly dangerous (although it could be argued that any wrong brake advice can potentially be a hazard?) but I am sure there have been other cases where I have had to challenge blatantly wrong advice from this poster.
My warning to other forum users is simple. Anyone can claim to be an 'expert' on the internet so don't always accept all advice as gospel.


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## rusty bearing (5 Sep 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Anyone can claim to be an 'expert' on the internet



.............and many do! Some of the pedantry displayed is mind boggling and equally dangerous as it confuses the issue with over complication. However i would never dream of singling out a forum member, strikes me as a bit personal.


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## Cycleops (6 Sep 2017)

Navigating between the bollix is all part of the fun on these forums.


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## Motozulu (14 Sep 2017)

Just ordered Hope E4's myself - can't wait to get them on and try them - I'm using Guide RS atm which are a great brake. The E4's though are a thing of beauty and bleeding (apparently) is the easiest of them all - not that you'll have to do it often - one reason why they are so pricey is their reliability record. Had the Guides 6 months and though they are a lovely brake to use, already had to have the LBS replace the piston in the front lever.
Hope Tech 3 E4's for 250 quid is a no brainer to me.


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## BretonM (16 Sep 2017)

Motozulu said:


> Just ordered Hope E4's myself - can't wait to get them on and try them - I'm using Guide RS atm which are a great brake. The E4's though are a thing of beauty and bleeding (apparently) is the easiest of them all - not that you'll have to do it often - one reason why they are so pricey is their reliability record. Had the Guides 6 months and though they are a lovely brake to use, already had to have the LBS replace the piston in the front lever.
> Hope Tech 3 E4's for 250 quid is a no brainer to me.



Exactly my reasoning for the purchase !!


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## FishFright (16 Sep 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Would someone please recommend Hope so that the OP can hear what he wants and we can forget about this thread?



I've been running the same Hope C2 since 2001 (ish) without issue. Does that count?


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## BretonM (16 Sep 2017)

FishFright said:


> I've been running the same Hope C2 since 2001 (ish) without issue. Does that count?



I'd say that counts !!


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## Yellow Saddle (16 Sep 2017)

FishFright said:


> I've been running the same Hope C2 since 2001 (ish) without issue. Does that count?


No. You are not coming on strong enough. Add some more anecdote, use the word bomb-proof, bombing down gnarly downhills and claim they saved your life on many occasions.


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## FishFright (16 Sep 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> No. You are not coming on strong enough. Add some more anecdote, use the word bomb-proof, bombing down gnarly downhills and claim they saved your life on many occasions.



Erm Ok

I was dinging some gnarl out in Whistler with my crew rocking the A Line .... Sorry no I cant do it !


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## BretonM (17 Sep 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> No. You are not coming on strong enough. Add some more anecdote, use the word bomb-proof, bombing down gnarly downhills and claim they saved your life on many occasions.


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