# Blood Pressure



## Bill Gates (9 Mar 2010)

Anyone take their blood pressure regularly at home?

My systolic (upper) varies between 145 and 125 and is normally around 135. Whereas my diastolic (lower) 65 and 75.

My last readings from today are

135/65 pulse 50

140/74 pluse 43

144/71 pulse 41

126/66 pulse 46

134/65 pulse 47

The pulse pressure (difference between the two values) is what concerns me slightly as it is consistently higher than what is normal (should be around 40); and mine from the corresponding blood pressures above are: 70, 66, 73, 60, and 69.

This could be the result of a very high stroke volume but might be linked to atherosclerosis.


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## jimboalee (10 Mar 2010)

Mine's usually 135/85.

The highest it's ever been was 190/130.
This was when I was bitten by a Black Widow spider in California.

The hospital took a brain scan to check for hemorrhageing.

The spider died.

I havn't been the same since.  It's a joy to be alive...


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## Bill Gates (10 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Mine's usually 135/85.
> 
> The highest it's ever been was 190/130.
> This was when I was bitten by a Black Widow spider in California.
> ...




So you *were* *normal* once then. 


I've read that you can estimate your resting stroke volume by 1.75 x pulse pressure. For me that averages out at 120 ml per beat. 

Normal untrained average is 50-70 ml per beat and elite athletes average is 90-110 ml per beat.


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## jimboalee (10 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> So you *were* *normal* once then.
> 
> 
> I've read that you can estimate your resting stroke volume by 1.75 x pulse pressure. For me that averages out at 120 ml per beat.
> ...



What do you define as 'Normal'?


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## numbnuts (10 Mar 2010)

Sat at my computer - 161/107 P 71
Few mins laying down - 145/79 P69


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## Bill Gates (10 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> What do you define as 'Normal'?




The rest of the world except you.


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## The Jogger (10 Mar 2010)

The pulse pressure of over 60 is a sign of being at risk of a heart attack, apparently. I'm now off to look it up.


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## The Jogger (10 Mar 2010)

There ya go, that didn't take long.

http://www.bloodpressure-drs-practical-guide.com/pulsepressure.html


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## automatic_jon (10 Mar 2010)

Last time I took it, at hospital, playing with the machine between patients, it was 120/80 textbook stuff.
Which is impressive as I'd not taken if since I started cycling and it's down from 150/70


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## jimboalee (10 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> The rest of the world except you.



If taking an internet chatroom as 'deadly serious' is 'normal', I'm definitely not normal.


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## woohoo (10 Mar 2010)

This seems a bit odd to me because the mean weighted 2005 figures I downloaded from www.heartstat.org a while back showed bp by age group as:

16-24 128/64 difference = 64 
25-34 130/72 difference = 58 
35-44 133/76 difference = 57 
45-54 133/76 difference = 57 
55-64 137/76 difference = 61 
65-74 140/73 difference = 67 

So, although the 120/80, difference = 40 is often quoted as the desired figure for a 20 something year old male, it doesn't appear to be too typical – or I might have misunderstood the charts


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## Bill Gates (11 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> If taking an internet chatroom as 'deadly serious' is 'normal', I'm definitely not normal.




Well as it was intended as a bit of fun (hence the  icon) maybe you shouldn't take yourself too seriously.


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## Bill Gates (11 Mar 2010)

The Jogger said:


> There ya go, that didn't take long.
> 
> http://www.bloodpressure-drs-practical-guide.com/pulsepressure.html



Do I sense a touch of triumphalism here? Only half the story I'm afraid.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_volume

http://www.coheadquarters.com/PennLibr/MyPhysiology/lect8/bp19.htm

It's the combination of a low resting HR and a high pulse pressure which correlates to a high stroke volume. My pulse is very very strong and to me this makes sense.


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## lukesdad (11 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> The rest of the world except you.



You forgot me !


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## Bill Gates (12 Mar 2010)

lukesdad said:


> You forgot me !




OK the rest of the world except Lukesdad and Jimboalee and grudgingly myself. 

Any other not normals out there?


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## plank (12 Mar 2010)

What kit do you use for measuring blood pressure?


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## Bill Gates (12 Mar 2010)

plank said:


> What kit do you use for measuring blood pressure?



Boots Blood Pressure Arm monitor. Mine is an earlier model to this one.

http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Intellisense-Blood-Pressure-Arm-Monitor_12788/


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## Fab Foodie (12 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> The hospital took a brain scan to check for hemorrhageing.



That's difficult to do on a spider...


jimboalee said:


> The spider died.



I guess they did their best...


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## jimboalee (15 Mar 2010)

A sphygmomanometer.


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## Trek Trauma Chris (15 Mar 2010)

If you are normally healthy, then a pressure of 140/90 or lower is normal (but obviously not too low). Over the counter monitors, battery operated cuff type, sometime have problems compressing muscular arms as opposed to the average fatty ish arm. Blood pressure rises with stress (dentist, doctors, job interview etc) this is normal so long as it fall's afterwards, if in doubt see your G.P. and get a check, it could save your life from the "silent killer".


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## jimboalee (15 Mar 2010)

After the spider incident, I'm confident the capillaries in my brain can handle 190/130.

Many years of having consistantly high blood pressure ( as per a recent Medical report widely publicised ) has encouraged my system to adapt to the higher than normal pressures.

Individuals who don't have consistantly high blood pressure or have hypotension won't develop the capillaries to cope with sudden increases in pressure, and the small pipework bursts, causing a stroke.


The hospital scanned my brain JIC I had suffered a stroke, as that level of pressure might have killed a lesser individual.
There was a small amount of amazement when the scan showed no injury.

Is keeping a permanently low BP the right way to go?


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## Crackle (15 Mar 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's difficult to do on a spider...
> 
> 
> I guess they did their best...


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## Fab Foodie (15 Mar 2010)

Crackle said:


>



Thanks Crackle!
I thought that one was gonna be wasted!


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## Bill Gates (17 Mar 2010)

The Jogger said:


> The pulse pressure of over 60 is a sign of being at risk of a heart attack, apparently. I'm now off to look it up.



Just been to the GP and he agrees with me that the combination of high pulse pressure and low HR is an indication of large stroke volume. He took 2 x readings of my blood pressure and the first one was 162/78 (quite high, pulse pressure 84) and HR was 46; 2nd was 142/78 (pulse pressure 64) and HR was 45.

Oh and another thing which was amazing he agreed that I didn't need to take any statins!!!

They don't normally measure small/large particled of LDL but he is going to make enquiries to see if they can do it for me. Stunned really, quite a good bloke.


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## ASC1951 (19 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> He took 2 x readings of my blood pressure and the first one was 162/78 (quite high, pulse pressure 84) and HR was 46; 2nd was 142/78 (pulse pressure 64) and HR was 45.


I've just discovered that I have been deluding myself!

I was bothered by the variability of my Boots device, so I used to take nine successive readings then average them. That was much lower than the GP's figure, which I put down to White Coat Effect. I am now told that using the pressure cuff actually reduces the next reading, so I have gone to morning and evening readings and averaging those over the week. The downside is that it's now shown to be an unhealthy 153/92 - urgent lifestyle changes required!

What does surprise me is that if I measure it immediately after getting back from a run, it's 117/78. I would have expected it to increase under load, but then I've only got the haziest idea about the mechanics.


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## Garz (20 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> ...as that level of pressure might have killed a lesser individual.
> There was a small amount of amazement when the scan showed no injury.



Very modest jim!


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## Trek Trauma Chris (20 Mar 2010)

ASC1951 said:


> I've just discovered that I have been deluding myself!
> 
> I was bothered by the variability of my Boots device, so I used to take nine successive readings then average them. That was much lower than the GP's figure, which I put down to White Coat Effect. I am now told that using the pressure cuff actually reduces the next reading, so I have gone to morning and evening readings and averaging those over the week. The downside is that it's now shown to be an unhealthy 153/92 - urgent lifestyle changes required!
> 
> What does surprise me is that if I measure it immediately after getting back from a run, it's 117/78. I would have expected it to increase under load, but then I've only got the haziest idea about the mechanics.



As I have posted elsewhere on this thread, these over the counter monitors are not always accurate, in fact they can be well out. When I found that I had raised blood pressure, I obtained one of these at my G.P'S request and then embarked on my suicide mission to lose weight. I shed 3 stone in 2 months but my pressure reading were soaring 195/110 was the norm, so in panic I went back to see him earlier than arranged and he got a reading of 135/85 still the high side of normal, but that is when he told me that these devices struggle to take reading of muscular arms as opposed to fatty arms, if in doubt get your G.P. or nurse to check it with there professional equipment.


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## Bill Gates (20 Mar 2010)

ASC1951 said:


> *I am now told that using the pressure cuff actually reduces the next reading*, so I have gone to morning and evening readings and averaging those over the week. The downside is that it's now shown to be an unhealthy 153/92 - urgent lifestyle changes required!
> 
> What does surprise me is that if I measure it immediately after getting back from a run, it's 117/78. I would have expected it to increase under load, but then I've only got the haziest idea about the mechanics.




As long as you allow at least 30 seconds between readings it should be OK, as the arteries would have returned to normal. You could always try the other arm as it's the same as makes no difference. How does your HR measure up?


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## Bill Gates (20 Mar 2010)

Trek Trauma Chris said:


> *As I have posted elsewhere on this thread, these over the counter monitors are not always accurate, in fact they can be well out.* When I found that I had raised blood pressure, I obtained one of these at my G.P'S request and then embarked on my suicide mission to lose weight. I shed 3 stone in 2 months but my pressure reading were soaring 195/110 was the norm, so in panic I went back to see him earlier than arranged and he got a reading of 135/85 still the high side of normal, but that is when he told me that these devices struggle to take reading of muscular arms as opposed to fatty arms, if in doubt get your G.P. or nurse to check it with there professional equipment.



The GP had a similar one to mine and when I asked him about calibration he replied that he didn't think there was a problem. Whether or not he is right to be unconcerned I'm not so sure.

What are your corresponding HR measurements?


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## Trek Trauma Chris (20 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> The GP had a similar one to mine and when I asked him about calibration he replied that he didn't think there was a problem. Whether or not he is right to be unconcerned I'm not so sure.
> 
> What are your corresponding HR measurements?



In my Engineering opinion, all testing equipment needs to be checked and calibrated for accuracy. My G.P. decided to put me on one of those 24 hr monitors for blood pressure, they also take your pulse and other readings, at the end of the test you get a printed read out. I asked him if it was still OK to cycle during this time, to which he said fine, just stop when you feel the cuff tighten and wait the 30 sec whilst it tests you. I have a cycling computer on the bike which gives my heart rate, and comparing it with my wrist pulse (manually taken) it seems quite accurate. So of I go 5 Min's into ride and m/c takes a test so I stop and note my H.R. on my computer, 30 Min's later the same again and so on for 2 more tests. When I get the print out back at the surgery a day later, my blood pressures were on the raised side, but what puzzled me, and the DR. could not explain it was my H.R. read out M/C 115 bpm--ME 95bpm / M/C 120 bpm--ME 130 bpm / M/C 125 bpm---ME 150 bpm / M/C 123 bpm--- ME 170 bpm. My reading were with computer and manually as I had stopped, so the M/C was giving false readings and how do I know that the last person to use the M/C had not dropped it. Usually though my H.R. is resting 50-53 bpm, normal daytime 60-65 bpm.


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## The Jogger (20 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> Just been to the GP and he agrees with me that the combination of high pulse pressure and low HR is an indication of large stroke volume. He took 2 x readings of my blood pressure and the first one was 162/78 (quite high, pulse pressure 84) and HR was 46; 2nd was 142/78 (pulse pressure 64) and HR was 45.
> 
> Oh and another thing which was amazing he agreed that I didn't need to take any statins!!!
> 
> They don't normally measure small/large particled of LDL but he is going to make enquiries to see if they can do it for me. Stunned really, quite a good bloke.



Sorry Bill, when I first read your post I was reading High Stroke Volume as high risk. I have similar stats to you RHR 48 Pulse Pressure normally just under 60

I'm hoping I was wrong.


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## jimboalee (22 Mar 2010)

Garz said:


> Very modest jim!



What we'll do is come round to your house, glue a Schrader valve into your Aorta and pump you up to 190mmHg.

Then we'll shove a scope up your nose and wait for your blood to obscure the lens.


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## earth (22 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> Just been to the GP and he agrees with me that the combination of high pulse pressure and low HR is an indication of large stroke volume. He took 2 x readings of my blood pressure and the first one was 162/78 (quite high, pulse pressure 84) and HR was 46; 2nd was 142/78 (pulse pressure 64) and HR was 45.
> 
> Oh and another thing which was amazing he agreed that I didn't need to take any statins!!!
> 
> They don't normally measure small/large particled of LDL but he is going to make enquiries to see if they can do it for me. Stunned really, quite a good bloke.




I couldn't make it through all 4 pages before having to post a reply to this.

A friend of mine is on Statins and swears by them. Personally I think he should quit smoking, drink less and take some exercise. But he's lazy. He has one of the blood pressure meters and every Christmas at his house we all take turns testing our blood pressure. It's like a party game.

Anyway, my systolic and diastolic readings are about average but I have a consistently high heart rate. I wore my polar heart rate monitor all night and the average was about 74 bpm. I can't get my heart rate down as low as some people on here even when asleep and I can't get much more relaxed than that! So that means I must have a low stroke volume. This has always been my belief.

My hypothesis is that if a person has a small heart then it will have to pump more frequently to move the required volume of blood. I've heard that a persons heart is roughly the size of their clenched fist and mine is a bit small so it adds up.

But what does that mean for my overall longevity?


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## Garz (22 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> What we'll do is come round to your house, glue a Schrader valve into your Aorta and pump you up to 190mmHg.
> 
> Then we'll shove a scope up your nose and wait for your blood to obscure the lens.




LMAO like it!


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## jimboalee (22 Mar 2010)

Garz said:


> LMAO like it!



Honestly, the hospital scanned my brain because 190 systolic can rupture arteries in the grey matter.

Excuse me, what was your name again.....


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## Bill Gates (23 Mar 2010)

earth said:


> A friend of mine is on Statins and swears by them. Personally I think he should quit smoking, drink less and take some exercise. But he's lazy.



I swear at them. On the other hand if you don't do any exercise then the muscles including the heart (biggest muscle of the lot), aren't at risk from the side effects




earth said:


> He has one of the blood pressure meters and every Christmas at his house we all take turns testing our blood pressure. It's like a party game.



Highest wins? 




earth said:


> Anyway, my systolic and diastolic readings are about average but I have a consistently high heart rate. I wore my polar heart rate monitor all night and the average was about 74 bpm. I can't get my heart rate down as low as some people on here even when asleep and I can't get much more relaxed than that! So that means I must have a low stroke volume. This has always been my belief.



Your resting HR is high by most cyclists' standards. In theory the more hours in the saddle you can manage then the fitter you get and the lower your RHR. How much cycling do you do and how hard do you ride?



earth said:


> My hypothesis is that if a person has a small heart then it will have to pump more frequently to move the required volume of blood. I've heard that a persons heart is roughly the size of their clenched fist and mine is a bit small so it adds up.
> 
> But what does that mean for my overall longevity?



Cyclists tend to have a larger heart than most other sports. 

I thought that the old wives tale about hand size was that something else was related to them in size. I say it's an old wives tale because my hands are relatively small but I pack a huge punch.


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## Trek Trauma Chris (23 Mar 2010)

It is my understanding having read and asked G.P'S and Specialist's, that High Blood Pressure (under "normal" conditions ie, no other problems like myself) will probably not affect you until your later years, but what it does do right from the word go is to start and make the arteries brittle, then later on in life when they have weakened and your pressure rises one day, BANG! a stroke. In your arm, leg or wherever if your pressure goes high then these areas can expand to compensate, but your brain is trapped inside your skull and cannot do this so something has to blow and hence you bleed or stroke. The medication you are prescribed is to help the arteries remain supple, keep pressures under control and if there is an underlying problem help that too. A little story! When I injured a shoulder weight training I had to see a specialist for a cortisone injection. He asked how I injured the shoulder and I told him weight lifting, he replied "weight lifting, how old are you, 47, get yourself down to the pub instead" when I replied that I had raised blood pressure, so any excess drinking raises blood pressure, he asked what my reading was and I said 140/90 on a good day, his actual words to me were "keep the low reading bellow a 100 and you will not have any problems".
I have also read that as you exercise, your heart being a muscle will grow in size to accommodate your exercise levels, whether this is good or bad I do not know.


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## ColinJ (23 Mar 2010)

Trek Trauma Chris said:


> When I injured a shoulder weight training I had to see a specialist for a cortisone injection. He asked how I injured the shoulder and I told him weight lifting, he replied "weight lifting, how old are you, 47, get yourself down to the pub instead".


I'd ask to see a different specialist if one gave me advice like that!


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## Bill Gates (23 Mar 2010)

Trek Trauma Chris said:


> It is my understanding having read and asked G.P'S and Specialist's, that High Blood Pressure (under "normal" conditions ie, no other problems like myself) will probably not affect you until your later years, but what it does do right from the word go is to start and make the arteries brittle, then later on in life when they have weakened and your pressure rises one day, BANG! a stroke. In your arm, leg or wherever if your pressure goes high then these areas can expand to compensate, but your brain is trapped inside your skull and cannot do this so something has to blow and hence you bleed or stroke. *The medication you are prescribed is to help the arteries remain supple, keep pressures under control and if there is an underlying problem help that too. *A little story! When I injured a shoulder weight training I had to see a specialist for a cortisone injection. He asked how I injured the shoulder and I told him weight lifting, he replied "weight lifting, how old are you, 47, get yourself down to the pub instead" when I replied that I had raised blood pressure, so any excess drinking raises blood pressure, he asked what my reading was and I said 140/90 on a good day, his actual words to me were "keep the low reading bellow a 100 and you will not have any problems".
> I have also read that as you exercise, your heart being a muscle will grow in size to accommodate your exercise levels, whether this is good or bad I do not know.



I didn't know there was such medication. What is it called?

........and could I respectfully ask that your posts are set out the same as everyone else. In other words other than in one large complete splurge without line breaks or spaces between all the sentences.


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## Trek Trauma Chris (23 Mar 2010)

ColinJ said:


> I'd ask to see a different specialist if one gave me advice like that!



He was the most down to earth bloke, who gave common sense advice I have ever met.


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## Trek Trauma Chris (23 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> I didn't know there was such medication. What is it called?
> 
> ........and could I respectfully ask that your posts are set out the same as everyone else. In other words other than in one large complete splurge without line breaks or spaces between all the sentences.[/QUOTE
> 
> Different medication's Bill.


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## ColinJ (23 Mar 2010)

Trek Trauma Chris said:


> He was the most down to earth bloke, who gave common sense advice I have ever met.


Well I wouldn't consider the implied "You're _how old_ - 47 - that's far too old to do anything energetic so give up before you kill yourself!" good advice. 

As for proposing spending more time in pubs...

I think "You aren't getting any younger so any injuries will take longer to heal. For heaven's sake, find yourself a good fitness trainer who will show you how to lift weights safely" would be more like it.

I've had riders in their late 70s ride away from me in hilly 200 km audax rides in the Yorkshire Dales and I know what they would say if a specialist told them that they should have given up 30 years earlier and spent more time down the boozer!

I'm 54 and I know that I haven't peaked yet...


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## Fab Foodie (23 Mar 2010)

ColinJ said:


> I'm 54 and I know that I haven't peaked yet...



That's not what Mrs J says...


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## ColinJ (23 Mar 2010)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's not what Mrs J says...


Unfortunately, the only 'other half' I have these days is the extra fat round my waist!


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## jimboalee (24 Mar 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> I didn't know there was such *medication*. What is it called?
> 
> ........and could I respectfully ask that your posts are set out the same as everyone else. In other words other than in one large complete splurge without line breaks or spaces between all the sentences.



It's not 'medication'. It's a healthy diet.


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## jimboalee (24 Mar 2010)

Is he talking about arteriosclerosis?

*"How is atherosclerosis treated? *

Medicines can't cure atherosclerosis or make constricted arteries regain their elasticity."


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## jimboalee (24 Mar 2010)

jimboalee said:


> It's not 'medication'. It's a healthy diet.



It's not 'medication'. It's a healthy diet .... FROM BIRTH.


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## Trek Trauma Chris (24 Mar 2010)

ColinJ said:


> Well I wouldn't consider the implied "You're _how old_ - 47 - that's far too old to do anything energetic so give up before you kill yourself!" good advice.
> 
> As for proposing spending more time in pubs...
> 
> ...



You are missing the point completely, heavy, low rep weight lifting not only causes muscle damage(if done wrong or not warmed up) but is also a "no no" for people with known raised blood pressure( light weight, high reps are ok). Having a pint or two (no more) in a pub has been proven to lower stress levels, the main, non ailment cause of raised blood pressure.

In his "off the cuff" jokey way, this is what he was telling me, to lighten up, get rid off the "beat myself up" attitude if I missed a session which was twice a day 7 day's a week, as well as working 7 days a week or if I failed to do 4 reps with 500lb squatting.


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## ColinJ (24 Mar 2010)

Trek Trauma Chris said:


> You are missing the point completely, heavy, low rep weight lifting not only causes muscle damage(if done wrong or not warmed up) but is also a "no no" for people with known raised blood pressure( light weight, high reps are ok). Having a pint or two (no more) in a pub has been proven to lower stress levels, the main, non ailment cause of raised blood pressure.


Fair enough. "Stop doing something that could well kill you" is obviously good advice. You missed out the bit where he said that light weight, high reps were okay. I assumed that you were doing light weight, high reps in the first place and that he'd told you to stop doing that.



Trek Trauma Chris said:


> ...a session which was twice a day 7 day's a week, as well as working 7 days a week or if I failed to do 4 reps with 500lb squatting.


I don't see where the age of 47 is relevant - that's bad for you at any age! Rest? Recovery? Overtraining?


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