# What are good & bad brands?



## mobi (21 Oct 2008)

Hi Experts

Can you please provide a list of good & bad MTB manufacturers?

Is there any bad brand at all? I mean which I should really avoid.

Where do you actually buy bike from? In my place, there's one Cycle king and a Halford. Are these enough to get good MTB [within £200]?

Thanx


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## Mr Pig (21 Oct 2008)

The real question is, can you get a good mountain bike for £200 'anywhere' ? The answer is, not really. If I had to buy a MTB for £200 I'd look for a good condition used one. Lots of people buy bikes with the best intentions then never use them, that's what you want. Not some hack that's been hammered every weekend and is worn to within an inch of its life. 

The most common bike that would fit the bill for you is the Specialized Hardrock. There are zillions of them out there and they are solid, workmanlike bikes from a reputable maker. You should get a clean one of those for £200 easy. I'd go for an older one, with the round tubing, as they are lighter and the components are better.


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## AndyM78 (21 Oct 2008)

The only thing i'd add is not to be won over by lots of gadgets like full suspension and disc brakes as you're likely to end up with a very heavy and poorly made bike. Much better to by a fully ridged budget bike and up grade as and when you can. But for my money i'd be looking for a used bike of higher spec like the specialised (my old Team Marin cost £1500 when it was new and the spec is similar to todays bikes but i'd be lucky to get £100 for it). 
As far as brands go just buy a copy of a MTB mag and have a look through, you dont tend to find rubbish brands being advertised in them so if your in a bike shop and see something you've not heard of you know to aviod it!


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## mobi (21 Oct 2008)

What exactly differentiates a good MTB from a bad MTB?

Is it ever possible to judge the quality of a MTB from short test ride?


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## ufkacbln (21 Oct 2008)

One over-rated, over-hyped, over-priced and , totally ueless brand - to be avoided at all cots!


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## Steve Austin (21 Oct 2008)

One bike at that price point i would recommend is the GT aggressor. 

Keep away from full suspension as they are always very heavy. LOTS of brands i wouldn't go near, but i think its easier to suggest some i would ride. Giant, GT, specialzed and Kona are all brand i would ride at that price point. And i reckon if you look for one of them you will get a decent enough bike.


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## Radius (21 Oct 2008)

No-one ever mentions Ridgeback, but their bikes are sturdy and seem to be popular with Mr Public (although is that a good thing?)
Got mine second hand for £120, think it's £240 ish new.


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## ufkacbln (21 Oct 2008)

Ridgeback are fine......

When my Airnimal broke outside Glasgow I totted up my Finances and decided that afte balancing losses of deposits and train fares - buying a cheap bike would be affordable and I could continue the tour, so I bought a Ridgeback Speed.

Nice machine, I intended to sell it when i returned, but I have kept it as a runaround when I don't want to use one ofthe better bikes.


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## snapper_37 (23 Oct 2008)

Steve Austin said:


> One bike at that price point i would recommend is the GT aggressor.



+ 1. Had the GT Aggessor 1.0 for about 3 years. It managed everything from single track to commuting. Great little bike and kept most of it's value when I flogged it on ebay. 

Agree with everyone else, get a decent second hand bike. Better value for money.


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## Mr Pig (23 Oct 2008)

mobi said:


> What differentiates a good MTB from bad? Is it possible to judge the quality from short test ride?


Sorry to take so long to reply, when I went to do it the forum was out to lunch.

The simplest way to look at a bike is to see it as two parts. The frame, and everything else! The frame will largely dictate how the bike fits you and the quality of the ride, how stiff, comfortable, etc the bike feels. The component choice and quality will dictate how well the moving parts all work and how long they will last. Basically, better parts will be smoother and should last longer. They may well be lighter too.

Just about everybody uses components from the same, relatively small, group of manufacturers, Shimano, SRAM etc, and most bikes in a particular price bracket will have similar quality parts. What sets the better manufacturers apart is that their frames are better and they get the balance of components right. Poorer manufacturers often try to make their bikes look good in the showroom by fitting flashy looking parts on pig-heavy frames. If you go to Halfords you will see full-suspension, disk brake, bikes costing £200. The truth is that a decent entry-level front suspension fork alone costs half that and so do disk brakes that will do more than give you nothing but trouble. The cheap forks on these bikes do nothing except add weight and take away control. You're far better off with a simpler, lighter bike with better quality parts.

Yes, you can tell a lot about a bike on a short ride. I would say that you want the bike to feel good straight away. Before riding the bike make sure the seat is at the right hight. When you're sitting on the bike with your heel on the pedal, with the pedal right at the bottom, there should only be a very slight bend in your knee. If you feel at home and the bike feels comfortable as soon as you start to ride it there's a good chance you'll enjoy it. Try a few different sizes too. Should you buy a bike and find that it's not quite right remember that you can change things like the saddle, handlebar stem and grips to help it fit you better. These things cost money though so you're better trying to get it as close as you can out of the box.

Look closely for bargains in the sales. For instance this bike cost £500 a few months ago, it's pretty good quality for £350:

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebw...QRY=C106&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003155c002909

I'm not saying you should buy it, just an example of what you can find. There are lots of similar bargains to be had, let us know what you find :0)


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## Warren (17 Feb 2009)

Hi,
Well I bought a mountain bike for £292.00 off the net, here is link:
http://www.holcroscycles.com/produc...ush-Dual-Suspension-Mountain-Bike-(2008).html
As far as i see it, it has lots off stuff on it like full suss and hydraulic disc brakes so i bought it. I havent cycled in a while but i used to cycle alot and quite enjoyed mountain biking. This may not be the best quality one but its just to get started into cycling agian so ill see how it goes, should be getting it tomorrow  cant wait. Also apparently it comes 85% built, i think i need to put on handlebars and wheel. Is that easy? (it doesnt sound to hard) 
Please tell me what you think off it and any potential probs it may have.


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

You can get a Specialized Hardrock 'New' for £299 and if you go for a 2008 model I've seen them for £240 - that's a bargain cheapo bike!


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

Warren - to be brutal, your choice of bike is very poor - I'd leave it in it's packaging and return it for a refund. For £292 you can get a much better bike such as the Specialized Hardrock or Kona Lanai to name just two. Most of the big names such as Trek, Giant etc. all makes bikes for £300. Not that I'm saying you should get one of the big names just because it's a big name, rather that they tend to make decent, value for money bikes at this price point.


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

Warren, I don't want to spoil your fun and excitment, I just think your cycling enjoyment will be enhanced on a different, more suitable machine - sorry!


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

Anyway, that's just my opinion - hope you enjoy the cycling.


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## 02GF74 (17 Feb 2009)

good makes? saracen (back in the olden days), trek, specialized, bianchi, gary fisher, proflex are all good and I have owned or own an example from them.

recently my friend boughat a mongoos otero for 1/2 price and that loos like a good value bike. nicely made aluminium full sus frame, hydraulic disc brakes, decent shimano components; only thing I don;t like is the chainset.

like this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MONGOOSE-OTER...14&_trkparms=72:1683|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


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## Warren (17 Feb 2009)

@ tundragumski
Thanks for your reply, i looked at the bikes you suggested but the bike ive chosen has more things as i said in my first post that it has full susspension and hydraulic disc brakes.
Well what i think ill do is keep it and ride it around for awhile and if really dont like it ill sell it, or upgrade parts im not happy with. But im sure it will be fine as its a major upgrade from my first bike (Avalanch Tundra 18 speed) wich i bought years ago.
Just out of interest what is it you dont like about the one i chose?


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## marcdominic (17 Feb 2009)

Waren,

Too late to respond to your earlier post – I only registered on this site today… I’d go for a Kona. 

I have owned two and simply love the frame geometry. Presently I cycle a 1999 Caldera – excellent machine that has survived ten years of constant usage. Cost was £800 in 1999. I think you can get a 2007 model for about £650, with what you’d like: disc brakes, aluminium frame etc – the 1999 was the last steel Caldera. I’ve had a few parts replaced and the odd wheel rebuilt.

OK, I’ve got a seized front mech at the moment but have just re-cabled (inner and outer) the rear derailleur – unbelievable rear indexed shifting has returned! It is the seized mech that drew me to this site – but I think that’s a job for the weekend – set up to run middle chain gear at the so still very functional. Replaced the rear tire with a multi-surface Specialized Armadillo (back tyre was warn and I got four punctures in two weeks and I now need it to get to work – can’t be doing with punctures), re-fitted brakes inners and cartridges (V brakes of course) and the bike is a pleasure to ride – once more. Total cost of parts < £60 (I had neglected the repairs!). The key point is bikes like this, ten years old, are still good machines and easy to work on at reasonable cheap price. 

BTW I hope you chose a decent frame size. I’d go for the smallest you can get away with: I’m 5’ 7” (ish) and cycle a 16” frame with the seat post at its limit. 

Anyway, hope you enjoy your new machine (link didn’t work for me – says catalogue page not found)…

__
Dominic.


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## marcdominic (17 Feb 2009)

In fact just seen a 14” 2008 Caldera at James’s for £439.00 – I know it’s probably too small but it gives you an idea….


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

It would be easier to say what I do like and I'm afraid that's nothing!

The suspension will not work well - you'd be better off without it.

The bike will be very heavy.

All the components are very low spec.


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## Warren (17 Feb 2009)

@ tundragumski

I do see what youre saying but the thing is that that my initail budget was £200 but at that store i got a pump, computer, chain and multitool with it as you get that with any bike above £250 and as i would of needed that in anycase i orderd the bike. You also must realise that im 19 and havent cycled for awhile and want to get back into it and cannot afford top spec bikes.
I appretiate youre help on this though, and one last question is if i do keep it (which i intend to do) would i not be able to replace the shocks (front and back) with better ones when i can afford it and then slowly upgrade and maybe even get new frame and transfer all the parts. any thoughts on this?
Thanks


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

I would not consider up-grading this bike. The frame is not suitable for up-grades and most of the parts will not fit a good quality frame. 

IMO either you ride it as it is, or sell it when you've had enough and feel the need for a better bike and up-grade to a new complete bike.

Definitely, don't try and up-grade this bike.

If you up-grade to a higher spec bike in the future, seek advice from experienced cyclists or your local bike shop (if it's decent) before making any decisions.


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

Warren, I hope you enjoy the cycling when your bike arrives - it's a great sport/leisure activity with many friendly faces!


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## Warren (17 Feb 2009)

@ tundragumski

Ok thanks, think thats probably best advice. ill ride it until i have enough money for a decent bike then sell it like you said. 

Thanks for the help


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## Warren (17 Feb 2009)

Im sure I will enjoy it, ive just come over from South Africa and moved to brundall near norwich. Any clubs nearby? (Preferably MTB for begginers type club. but any will do)


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

My original advice remains though - there are decent bikes available for £300, just not with full suspension and hydraulic disc brakes!

You would be better off with a good quality higher spec hardtail (front suspension only) and you can buy these for £300 (like the ones I mentioned earlier).


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## e-rider (17 Feb 2009)

oh, Thetford Forest is the place to go in Norfolk


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## Berger and Chips (18 Feb 2009)

Reasonable MTB for £200?
Yes, good enough for some cross country riding.


http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/rockrider-5-2-black-34963795/

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_273437_langId_-1_categoryId_165499

These bikes aren't too heavy, are upgradeable, are not particularly fragile, are industry standard and have a high level of compatibility with available replacement/upgrade components.


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## barq (18 Feb 2009)

Warren, when I got back into cycling as an adult I did pretty much what you did and bought an MTB with cheap suspension. From where I stand now it wasn't a good bike. However I had a lot of fun with it and cycled thousands of miles. You may ultimately end up getting a different bike, but I think it is very hard to get your first purchase right.

Upgrades: the problem is that it is almost always cheaper to buy a complete bike rather than buying parts separately. The other issue is compatibility. You need to make sure that anything you buy is a modern standard so you can migrate them to a new bike. Focus on saddles, pedals and (possibly) wheels if you feel the need to do anything at all.

Anyway, hope you have fun with it. I doubt the set up will be problematic, but you can always post here (or Know How) if you get stuck.


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## Warren (18 Feb 2009)

To barq 

Well thanks for the advice, I got the bike today, and it might just be that ive only had one realy crappy bike before (Like an £80 - £100) but wow. I noticed a huge improvement, especially in the braking (I can stop dead with one finger). I do see what you mean about the suspension though, it is not great but i think its still better than none and i really enjoy riding it and you can tell the suspension helps. I cant wait for tomorrow to go out and about cycling as i only got the bike late in the day so I only got 10k's worth of cycling after putting it together. There is one slight prob and that is the disc doesnt seem centerd(I think thats spelt wrong) and is just touching the one pad. It doesnt seem to slow me down though but should i do anything about it and if so what?

Thanks


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## Berger and Chips (18 Feb 2009)

Warren's bike is weird.
Unless I had seen it I would not have believed that you could buy a bike with a combination of steel seat post, steel rear triangle, fluted non A-head handlebar stem, steel handlebars, tourney/SIS level parts, plastic coated crank but with hydraulic disc brakes!

IMHO the only dirt cheap full suspension bike that is supposed to be anything other than next to useless as a real off road mtb is this:-

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/rockrider-6-3-34963775/

Everything about this bike is much better - except, bizarrely, the brakes which are only mechanical disc brakes - hence inferior.


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ *Berger and Chips*

The site got a few things wrong in their write up and pics. Firstly the pic shows normal disc's but they are pulse ones. then the rear triangle is actually aluminuim as shown on the picture. Also the crank is not plastic coated. Also the front suspension is adjustable unlike what is said on the site. Unfortunately im new to all this so i dont know what "fluted non A-head handlebar stem" is and also dont know what is wrong with tourney/SIS level parts as i can change gears realy quickly and easily. Finaly you have to realise i am only a beginner and I dont have the money that most people have to spend on bikes and like i said my original max was £200 but the only bikes for that were worse than the one I got. Anyways im really happy with it and when I get more experience and more money I will get a better bike.


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

Looks quite a bit better than in the website photo got a picture of the whole thing?

The stem in the original photo is what is called a "Quill stem" these days almost all bikes over £180 have the A-head stem.
A-head stems are a big chunky stem that clamps around the outside of the fork steerer.
Quill stems are thin stems that are pushed down inside the frameset and then tightened by turning a screw thread that makes the stem jam against the inside of the fork steerer.

I personally have not had a bike with a quill stem since my 96 Marin Bobcat Trail - and I had that converted to an A-head.


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ *Berger and Chips*

Well by the way you describe a quill stem then unfortunately it is one as I had to assemble it, and it also slightly heavy. What is an A-head stem and do you recomend i get one? (What is the benifit of one.)
Im sure the crank set is metal as it feels like it and i scratched a bit of paint off when putting the bike down before putting on the pedals.
Ive attached another pic here of the whole thing, any thoughts? Like i said i know its not that great but when i have more money and experience i will get a better one (any idea on prices for a good one?).


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

That bike looks a bit better than the original photo.
It will be fine for road riding and gentle off roading such as tow paths and gentle trails.
Personally I would not trust it for safety on downhills and I would expect it to break if you try to use it in anger for hardcore cross country on very technical trails.
I suggest you don't upgrade it - if you really get into it, save up for a bike that better suits your needs (tell us your requirements and ask for some suggestions on here) or keep some money to one side to repair components as they break, instead of trying to gild the lilly so to speak.
You would not put a Ferrari engine into a Vauxhall Corsa, so in a similar vein its not worth upgrading this bike from either a financial or practical standpoint.
Lets say you spent £200 on new forks and an A-head stem - the frame could still snap if you then tried to compete on difficult terrain against people who had bought £500 bikes such as Specialized or GT in the first place...
Upgrading this bike would be what is called "sub-optimisation", whatever you upgrade the bike will only be as good as the worst part that remains of the original machine.
As I say though it will be fine on reasonably undemanding terrain.
I am not saying you should not use it in anger on demanding terrain out of snobbery, its because you stand to break the bike and write it off or worse- get hurt due to bicycle/component failure.


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ *Berger and Chips*

K well thanks, i suppose for now road riding and gentle off roading is all ill be doing and ill take care not to put to much pressure on it as ive seen bad vids on the internet about frames braking. Do you know how it will cope in thetford forest as i intend to go there in a few weeks when i regain my fitness (Im probably the most unfit person on the site, and im not even fat I only way 65Kg! I read posts on people doing 100's of miles and i do 12k's and my legs are burning) and when i get more comfortable cycling. 

Thanks for the advice too.


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

I don't really know the area, my advice would generally be this. If there are a lot of gnarly, undulating bits with tree stumps and rocks to ride over take it easy.
Should be ok if its just towpath type trails, a bit of hardpack, etc.
If the suspension is obviously getting a good workout I would not cane it on that bike.
I would suggest you get some wet lube from Halfords, or bike shop, (about £5 or £6) and keep the chain well lubed if going off road in winter especially otherwise you will end up spending your money towards your next bike replacing the chain and gears...
Maybe the bike could take a punishment - I don't really know it that well, but a couple of details such as the way the handlebars are connected (stem type) and the way the seat post is connected suggest to me that the bike is one notch below what I would call a true go-anywhere mtb...
NOTE: as i alluded to before if you were to upgrade these parts then its likely the frame would crack, rear shock or forks would fail instead during heavy usage...


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ Burger and Chips

Thanks for the help, well I think i get the idea now and ill keep in mind ("If the suspension is obviously getting a good workout I would not cane it on that bike") i think thats a good way for looking out if im overdoing it. Last question, do you have any idea on a good "go-anywhere mtb..." and the amount i would need for it. It looks like the usage of my bike would be going on road and dirt paths most of the time to get fit and then weekends I would go on mtb trails. 

Thanks once agian.

PS why do you need to put on so much lube on the chian, what happens if it doesnt get enough, also when you buy it new do you have to oil the chain first. Cuase ive been using it as is, never even tought of that. (Forgive me if this is a realy stupid question which it probably is but as i say im still learning all these things.)


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

As long as its not getting too wet or too muddy it won't need too much oil.
You want just enough lube to stop it squeeking or starting to rust.
As a general rule a bike good enough to take proper off road punishment in XC riding as opposed to jumping or downhilling would be £300 and up from a reputable make in hardtails and £500 and up from a reputable make in full suspension.
I am talking original RRP so if you can get a full susser that was £500 for £300 that would count.
Generally speaking I would suggest dont buy any bike without either Googling for a review from a proper bike resource such as BikeRadar or asking a few people on here first...
For good value look at the Carrera, Decathlon or Boardman ranges - for guaranteed quality Marin, Specialized, Trek and GT.
Also Scott,Kona and Cannondale (except these are often not cheap).

Ideally you should be looking at upwards of £400 for a hardtail and £600 for a full suspension machine.


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ Berger and Chips

K thanks ill save up around £800 and get one of those makes, i dont think ill go for hard tail as even though i have cheap susspension i realy like full suspension and i feel it helps make rides more comfortable even if they may be slightly heavier (ill just cycle harder get bigger muscles and get used to it). 
Ill probably get a new one in a year or two, also by then ill know what bike i need and how it will be used. 

Thanks for the help


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

At that sort of price bracket and full suspension I would suggest Specialized - I am sure other people would have other suggestions.
If you bide your time you should be able to get the current years model for £800 down from £1200 when the next years model bikes come out. A Specialized or equivalent quality bike that was originally £1200 will be of a very high standard indeed.
By then you should know if you will be leaning more towards a faster XC-style bike or a stronger play/All Mountain bike...


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ Burger and Chips 

Sorry to keep on asking questions but it seems you know alot more about bikes than me. What do you think of this one:
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=39200&eid=2

Its from the all mounatin bike section of specialized and supposed to be built for all type of mtb riding.
Ive seen it for around £1400.
Do you think in maybe a year or so it will come down to around £800?


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## Berger and Chips (19 Feb 2009)

If you wait till a bike becomes last years model you can save typically about 1/3 off the price.
Here is a similar model with a £200 discount

http://www.mikevaughancycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b2s1p907&rs=gb

I can't guarantee that you will ever be able to get hold of that specific one for as little as £800. £950 to £1000 is more likely the sort of discount price against a £1400 bike.
When it becomes last years model check in Evans here are two current deals on similar models:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/enduro-fsr-comp-2008-mountain-bike-ec001431

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/enduro-fsr-expert-2008-mountain-bike-ec001430


One way to search for the best price easily: Put the name of the bike you are interested into Google, click on "Google Search", click the "Shopping" link at the top of the page, change the "Sort By" drop down combo-box to show "Price: low to high".


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## e-rider (19 Feb 2009)

Bikes are getting more expensive by the week - possibly due to the weak £ or other economic reasons in the far east and USA. 

I've cycled at thetford forest a lot and even my bike (which was fairly expensive at £1500) needs repairs after most rides there. I even stopped going for a while as it was costing a fortune in new parts.

At 65kg you'll be better off than me so your bike should survive - it really depends which route you ride (there are 4) and how fast/aggressive you ride them. If you take it easy your bike will be fine - if you go mental on the black route , expect to be buying new parts after your first trip!


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## Warren (19 Feb 2009)

@ tundragumski

Thanks for the advice about thetford forest. Well from what you say my bike should be fine as im not an agressive cyclist i just like off road more than on road, but either way i like to cycle.
Also I dont suppose you know of any cycle routes near brundall, preferably a bit of off road. Also bear in mind my fitness needs alot of working on im afraid


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## e-rider (19 Feb 2009)

I used to live on the east side of norwich but there is very little off road riding near you - actually nothing that I know! Norfolk is probably the worst county in England for off-road cycling.

Try Marriots Way heading N-NW from Norwich city centre - this is a long trail that's a mix of gravel/mud track and some smoother stuff - makes a nice route though; but beware of dogs and horses! This can be made into a circular ride that's about 40 miles from Norwich centre and back again.


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## Warren (20 Feb 2009)

@ tundragumsky

Well I rode around today found some muddy path/ road and went cycling around it and of all the things that could happen a puncture (And in the back tire (Ive seen a positive about disc brakes though so much easier when taking off a wheel  )
I knew I should carry a pump and repair kit with me but of course i neva thought i would get a puncture so soon.
Anyways needless to say it was a long walk home
Well tomorrow going into Norwich to get either that tape stuff that you put between the tire and tube, or those tubes with green slime in, or a better tire as the one it came with has no grip (when grabbing the brakes the tires lock and skid) and is thin or I may get all the above, any ideas?


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## Cubist (20 Feb 2009)

Don't grab the brakes! You've got twin piston hydraulics there. Learn to feather them, use only one or two fingers. Do you have knobbly tyres on? If so they are designed to give you traction. No tyre on the planet will stop your wheels locking if you grab a big fistful on a loose surface. 

Get a puncture repair kit and a pump, plus a spare tube and carry them with you. Don't start changing things on your bike yet, save your cash for the new one......


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## Warren (20 Feb 2009)

Ok well ill take your advice on the brakes, thanks (pretty obvious should of thought about that, used to v brakes).
Well what do you thibnk about this:
Panaracer Fire XC Pro Pair of tires with Tubes for only £48. Ill have spare tubes and better tires and the tires are kevlar so should resist punctures. 
I see what you mean about saving money but I do intend on keeping my bike for a while and going off road, and i dont want to keep getting punctures as they really are annoying as i found out today. Also do you know about green slime you put in your inner tubes?


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## e-rider (21 Feb 2009)

This is getting silly - you've had the bike 1 day and are about to blow £50 on tyres. So that's £300 for the bike plus £50 for the new tyres - another £100 and you could have got a really decent bike in the first place - crazy!


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## Warren (21 Feb 2009)

Yeah i see what you mean, i got green slime for my inner tube instead.
£9


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## ChrisCrc (10 Mar 2009)

There is a lovely Full Suspension Gary Fisher Frame on Ebay as i write this for £175, If i had not just bought 3 sets of Hydraulic Brakes and 3 wheels from Ebay I would have definitely snapped it up.

A real Bargain


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