# Are cyclists the scourge of the streets?



## Slick (2 Jul 2019)

Should be worth a watch.

https://www.channel5.com/show/cyclists-scourge-of-the-streets/


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## classic33 (2 Jul 2019)

Timer set to record already.


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## ColinJ (2 Jul 2019)

I'll give it a miss... It's bad enough suspecting that a lot of drivers hate us, without watching TV shows which confirm it!


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I'll give it a miss... It's bad enough suspecting that a lot of drivers hate us, without watching TV shows which confirm it!


You'd almost suspect that motorists might need to find a scapegoat for all their pollution and killing pedestrians in the street and the pavements.


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## Drago (2 Jul 2019)

Sounds like a version of the Daily Mail for folk that can't read.


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## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I'll give it a miss... It's bad enough suspecting that a lot of drivers hate us, without watching TV shows which confirm it!


Agree!


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Sounds like a version of the Daily Mail for folk that can't read.



No sub titles then?


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## Smudge (2 Jul 2019)

Channel 5 have exhausted all the benefit porn documentaries, so it was about time to film someone else.


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## Smudge (2 Jul 2019)

I'm surprised they never called it..... 'Cyclists from hell, when bicycles attack !'
That would have been far more CH5.


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## Slick (2 Jul 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I'll give it a miss... It's bad enough suspecting that a lot of drivers hate us, without watching TV shows which confirm it!


Maybe they can change a few minds.


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## ColinJ (3 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Maybe they can change a few minds.


Report back... if it turns out to be a positive programme for cyclists then I'll watch it on catch-up!


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## tom73 (3 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Sounds like a version of the Daily Mail for folk that can't read.



Well it was owned by the same bunch till a few years ago.


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## tdr1nka (3 Jul 2019)

It has such a thoughtful and thoroughly unbiased title, I can't see anything wrong here.......


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## ianrauk (3 Jul 2019)

I'm with @ColinJ , I can only imagine it's going to be a hatchet job as usual.
I wait to hear the reports. If not, then I may watch it on catch up.


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## ianrauk (3 Jul 2019)

tdr1nka said:


> It has such a thoughtful and thoroughly unbiased title, I can't see anything wrong here.......




Whahaaaayyyyy welcome back me ol' muckeroonie


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## TheDoctor (3 Jul 2019)

tdr1nka said:


> It has such a thoughtful and thoroughly unbiased title, I can't see anything wrong here.......


MAAAAAAATE!
Very long time no viddy, droog


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## Paulus (3 Jul 2019)

It's Channel 5, what do you expect?


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## Crackle (3 Jul 2019)

I suppose we can expect some extra aggression on the roads after this but of course the shyster producers of the show won't be responsible for that will they, cahnts.


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## Johnno260 (3 Jul 2019)

I get this all the day at work, I don't need to watch it at home.


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## Johnno260 (3 Jul 2019)

meh spoke to soon the office tards are already speaking about this, like I told them the other day when the classic "tax" line was uttered, I pay more council tax so using their logic I'm more entitled to use the road.


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## Slick (3 Jul 2019)

I think it might be interesting to see a driver trying to justify getting to the back of a very long queue and his willingness to risk the safety of others whilst doing so.


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## Brandane (3 Jul 2019)

Starring... Mr Fat Lazy B'stard BMW Driver. Co starring Mr FLB Merc Driver, with a guest appearance by Mrs FLB Audi Driver. If they can stereotype, so can I .


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

Don't worry. Only 2 people with watch it, and they're both cyclists.


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## bladesman73 (3 Jul 2019)

Sounds like a show for fat gammon who have 'ingerlund' tattoos. It'll only be a hatchet job on cyclists meanwhile motorists kill and maim daily but not a fckin peep


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## Milzy (3 Jul 2019)

Yes because we live in a sick world full of selfish horrible scum bags.


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## Julia9054 (3 Jul 2019)

We need to nominate a public spirited member of Cyclechat to take one for the team, watch it and report back.
Baggsy not me!


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

Julia9054 said:


> We need to nominate a public spirited member of Cyclechat to take one for the team



And when they've done that they could watch the TV programme?


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## tom73 (3 Jul 2019)

Just seen the trailer for this that was enough. Got a full house of bull sxxx bingo in no time.


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## mjr (3 Jul 2019)

Is this another revised repeat of that "war on the streets" one that was first on BBC, then a second time a year or so later on 5? Well done to the production company reselling it, if so (!)


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## mjr (3 Jul 2019)

tom73 said:


> Well it was owned by the same bunch till a few years ago.


No, it was the Daily Expurge and Star that was in with 5.


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## Vantage (4 Jul 2019)

I have a slight suspicion that it'll be a witch hunt.


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## Drago (4 Jul 2019)

The Star is a quality source of news and salacious porn. I mean, information.


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## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2019)

View: https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/1146320205137752064?s=19


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## tom73 (4 Jul 2019)

Funny that the same company has another show on channel 5 at the moment. Following an A and E dept which 2 doctors to my knowledge cycle in to work. One has been going it for over 30 years and is nationally held in regard by fellow A and E consultant's. He rides what ever the weather even known to sleep over if snow is bad. Bet he's not seen a scourge by the many he's saved over the years and I bet they won't find any like him to balance things out.


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## mjr (4 Jul 2019)

Well, I've just tweeted a pledge to @channel5_tv that I'll take a month off watching anything on the 5 network unless I hear that this was surprisingly balanced and progressive. I was quite enjoying the LO:CI reruns and the Canadian dramedy Private Eyes on 5USA, too, but I think noisily stopping watching is the only way to wake them up.


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## Vantage (4 Jul 2019)

They'll have nightmares because of the devastation you've caused them.


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## mjr (4 Jul 2019)

Vantage said:


> They'll have nightmares because of the devastation you've caused them.


Depends how many others join us.


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## classic33 (4 Jul 2019)

Vantage said:


> They'll have nightmares because of the devastation you've caused them.


I'm recording it. I'll then disconnect any and all leads going outside the house, before watching it. They'll not know.

@magnatom was on, again, a while back.


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## glasgowcyclist (4 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> I'm recording it. I'll then disconnect any and all leads going outside the house, before watching it. They'll not know.
> 
> @magnatom was on, again, a while back.



He was approached for this one and declined.

The person who contacted him said, "I totally understand that it's far more nuanced than Us v Them ... I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone else's eyes ... We are not out for a slagging match."

The lesson is that if a journalist contacts you out of the blue to do a piece on cycling, don't trust them no matter how favourable they try to portray their goal. You can agree to dance with the bear but you won't be doing the leading.


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## Slick (4 Jul 2019)

I saw a montage of what to expect, it didn't look good. Maybe it's just the usual dramatics to reel a few extra viewers in. I'll still probably watch it just to see what it's all about.


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## classic33 (4 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> He was approached for this one and declined.
> 
> The person who contacted him said, "I totally understand that it's far more nuanced than Us v Them ... I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone else's eyes ... We are not out for a slagging match."
> 
> The lesson is that if a journalist contacts you out of the blue to do a piece on cycling, don't trust them no matter how favourable they try to portray their goal. You can agree to dance with the bear but you won't be doing the leading.


Fair play to him.


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## sleuthey (6 Jul 2019)

The program title implies that they will focus on the vast minority of cyclists who ride badly and were at some point caught on camera. 

I therefore assume there will be another program called "Motorists: the scourge of the streets" and then another for bus drivers etc? Or an I assuming it's a fair world?


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## Slick (6 Jul 2019)

sleuthey said:


> The program title implies that they will focus on the vast minority of cyclists who ride badly and were at some point caught on camera.
> 
> I therefore assume there will be another program called "Motorists: the scourge of the streets" and then another for bus drivers etc? Or an I assuming it's a fair world?


To be fair, there are a number of shows that regularly show clips of some horrendous driving. Going by the clips, it doesn't look like anyone will come out smelling of Rose's to be honest.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jul 2019)

No. There answered that one for you.


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## ianrauk (6 Jul 2019)

I bet you...they have idiots like Traffic Droid and Su Perb on as 'on behalf of the cyclist'


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## ianrauk (8 Jul 2019)

Peter Walker from the Guardian has seen a preview.
It's looking like the programme is as bad as we are all imagining it to be.

Linky to article HERE

And I guessed right 'self publicist' Su Purb ie Dave Sherry, is on the programme.


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## rugby bloke (8 Jul 2019)

ianrauk said:


> Peter Walker from the Guardian has seen a preview.
> It's looking like the programme is as bad as we are all imagining it to be.
> 
> Linky to article HERE
> ...


Does not sound good when you read the article. However I guess the problem is designed to pander to existing prejudices so this is what to expect.


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## Slick (8 Jul 2019)

ianrauk said:


> Peter Walker from the Guardian has seen a preview.
> It's looking like the programme is as bad as we are all imagining it to be.
> 
> Linky to article HERE
> ...


Doesn't look great does it.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Jul 2019)

Let ‘em froth and foam all they like. Cycling is a major part of the future.
Keep cool people, keep cool.


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## bruce1530 (8 Jul 2019)

“Tune in next week for our new programme: People With Ginger Hair - Scourge of the Streets”.

Channel 5 report that future candidates for their “Minorities: Scourge of the streets” franchise will include Europeans, Grannies, People in Disability Scooters, Europeans, Fatties, Food Bank Users, Europeans, Vegetarians, Giraffes and Bus Conductors. Especially if they are European.


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## tom73 (8 Jul 2019)

oh dear better add watching out for pitch folks and burning touchers to list of stuff you need to watch out for. Oh well make a difference from the close pass.


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## glasgowcyclist (8 Jul 2019)

I wonder whether, after the programme has aired, @sue perb will drop by this thread to discuss his participation in it.


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## Mugshot (8 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I wonder whether, after the programme has aired, @sue perb will drop by this thread to discuss his participation in it.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Jul 2019)

The Gammon is unusually rouge in this one...


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## glasgowcyclist (8 Jul 2019)

Mugshot said:


> View attachment 474561


He still lurks here from time to time.


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## Bazzer (8 Jul 2019)

IMHO the knuckle draggers who are already prejudiced against cyclists wouldn't have their views changed anyway. You could have Sir David Attenborough explaining how if more people cycled, it would help global warning and those myopic drivers who see every other person on the road as an inconvenience to them would still not take any notice.


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## sue perb (9 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I wonder whether, after the programme has aired, @sue perb will drop by this thread to discuss his participation in it.



https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1166614143


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## DRM (9 Jul 2019)

View: https://youtu.be/yQO4Dnlwcg0


Perhaps they should show this directly after this excuse of a program is aired, I think Phil gets his point across quite well, oh warning too, NSFW.


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jul 2019)

sue perb said:


> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1166614143



Sorry, I'm not one for blindly clicking unexplained links.

Is that a yes or a no?


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## KneesUp (9 Jul 2019)

It's a 'documentary' on Channel 5. What did you expect?


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## Edwardoka (9 Jul 2019)

I suspect that my google history after reading Peter Walker's article is likely to flag me up on a list. I was just curious about how much hydrazine and dinitrogen tetroxide it would take to launch a tv production company into the sun.


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## winjim (9 Jul 2019)

sue perb said:


> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1166614143


He's not the one lurking on a forum, just waiting for his name to be mentioned so he can whip out the clever clever image file he's got stuffed in his back pocket. Which let's face it is downright weird.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

Alright, own up. Which one of you lot messed in someone's back garden coming back from box hill?


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## Mark1978 (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Alright, own up. Which one of you lot messed in someone's back garden coming back from box hill?



Wasnt me, i have trouble getting out of my lycra in order to do it.


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## Salty seadog (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Alright, own up. Which one of you lot messed in someone's back garden coming back from box hill?



It's all of them isn't it?
We all do all the wrongs.


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## Tanis8472 (9 Jul 2019)

My God, what a biased load of crap.
Hypocrite moaning about cyclist throwing bottles etc, yet looks like he runs a shooting range littering the countryside with clay pigeons


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

Salty seadog said:


> It's all of them isn't it?
> We all do all the wrongs.


Isn't it great the amount of comments that argue that they support cycling in general? 

This is the polar opposite of the video I watched earlier in Utrecht. Spot the difference.


View: https://youtu.be/Boi0XEm9-4E


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## simon the viking (9 Jul 2019)

Mr loophole annoys me... Wants legislation against cyclist toughened up but helps motorists flaunt the law.. 

He has always made me angry.. Even when i was just a motorist not a cyclist


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## Edwardoka (9 Jul 2019)

simon the viking said:


> Mr loophole annoys me... Wants legislation against cyclist toughened up but helps motorists flaunt the law..
> 
> He has always made me angry.. Even when i was just a motorist not a cyclist


As I said when the bbc aired his errant nonsense last year, he makes his living by exploiting weaknesses in legislation to stop dangerous drivers from being removed from the roads. In this regard he has as much authority on matters of road safety as a burning bag of s**t.

His opinion on this is worthless and it's indicative of how weak the production values of this show are that they've used that ambulance-chasing daffodil as a source.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

How would you like a job like this policeman though?


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## classic33 (9 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I wonder whether, after the programme has aired, @sue perb will drop by this thread to discuss his participation in it.


Maybe explain why he feels entitled to cycle at speed on the pavement.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jul 2019)

Had a lovely ride today. Anything on the box?


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

We certainly could have used a couple of better spokespeople at the end to discuss cycling on the pavement but I'm not sure this programme was as bad as some were expecting.


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## winjim (9 Jul 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Had a lovely ride today. Anything on the box?


No idea. The baby's asleep in the lounge.


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## classic33 (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> We certainly could have used a couple of better spokespeople at the end to discuss cycling on the pavement but I'm not sure this programme was as bad as some were expecting.


West Midlands Police appear to be using material from stayinaliveat1.5 in Ireland. The folder pulled out has their car sticker on it.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> West Midlands Police appear to be using material from stayinaliveat1.5 in Ireland. The folder pulled out has their car sticker on it.


Didn't notice that.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jul 2019)

To those that endured the programme, thanks for the feedback. I'll file it under "as I feared."


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> To those that endured the programme, thanks for the feedback. I'll file it under "as I feared."


Just be grateful your not a Ryanair shareholder.


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## Glow worm (9 Jul 2019)

Hard work watching that.

Having just returned from a mini cycling tour through France , Belgium and NL I can only say driver behaviour over here is very different. Much more volatile, almost as if what folks over the channel cope with every day in their cars without issue, seems way beyond what your average British driver can bear.

One could almost be forgiven for thinking that the UK is a toxic, polluted, doomed, angry little country full of demented half-wits.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

Glow worm said:


> Hard work watching that.
> 
> Having just returned from a mini cycling tour through France , Belgium and NL I can only say driver behaviour over here is very different. Much more volatile, almost as if what folks over the channel cope with every day in their cars without issue, seems way beyond what your average British driver can bear.
> 
> One could almost be forgiven for thinking that the UK is a toxic, polluted, doomed, angry little country full of demented half-wits.


Hopefully not doomed.


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## marshmella (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Isn't it great the amount of comments that argue that they support cycling in general?
> 
> This is the polar opposite of the video I watched earlier in Utrecht. Spot the difference.
> 
> ...



This is amazing not a helmet in sight.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

marshmella said:


> This is amazing not a helmet in sight.


I'm going there in a couple of weeks. My hat is staying at home, can't wait.


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## classic33 (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Didn't notice that.


Early on in his piece, where he says what the folder is.





stayinaliveat1.5


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## Glow worm (9 Jul 2019)

Chris Boardman's response to this idiotic programme is superb. Apologies I can't figure out how to do links from Twitter - but if you search there you'll find It. 

I'm too old to figure this kind of stuff out and if I do, I'll have forgotten again by morning.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Early on in his piece, where he says what the folder is.
> View attachment 474821
> 
> stayinaliveat1.5
> View attachment 474822


I'm not sure if I missed the bleedin obvious or your powers of concentration are superhuman.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

Glow worm said:


> Chris Boardman's response to this idiotic programme is superb. Apologies I can't figure out how to do links from Twitter - but if you search there you'll find It.
> 
> I'm too old to figure this kind of stuff out and if I do, I'll have forgotten again by morning.


I'll have a look.


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## classic33 (9 Jul 2019)

@sue perb, which is correct. The piece as given to the camera, you were hit from behind, whilst you were your daughter was on the back, OR, that you were late for work having been hit from behind.

Both have been used, by you, to explain why you started what you do.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31017422

Struck through text so it reads right


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## Glow worm (9 Jul 2019)

Ooh, try this link. (Frankly anything could happen-) if it works, I'll be astounded.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/britishcycling/status/1148622845695557632


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## classic33 (9 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> I'm not sure if I missed the bleedin obvious or your powers of concentration are superhuman.


It might explain West Midlands Police choice of the 1.5 passing limit though.

Stood out because it's odd to see one over here.


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## Slick (9 Jul 2019)

Glow worm said:


> Ooh, try this link. (Frankly anything could happen-) if it works, I'll be astounded.
> 
> 
> View: https://mobile.twitter.com/britishcycling/status/1148622845695557632



Well done, I was just coming back to post it. 


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1148622845695557632


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## johnnyb47 (9 Jul 2019)

I laughed when i heard that guy saying "a plague of cyclists"
I mean what would happen for argument sake if every cyclist in London turned there backs on cycling and started using there cars or public transport, and the converted cycle paths turned back into car use. Pollution levels would sky rocket due to the extra vehicles, Public transport would be busting even more than it is now with the increase of passengers and parking would nay on impossible. Heath benefits would be lost.
On the more positive flip side if more people cycled all these problems would be reduced. This program only showed the extremes of bad cyclists and bad drivers The vast majority of both cyclist /driver are considerate, but this program was just feeding on the negatives, in a vein attempt to make it interesting. Traffic in city centres has reached saturation point and no new road layouts will ever solve it. The moaning motorists who refuse to accept this will just end up continuing to endure congestion and spiralling costs and become ever more bitter. A message to the car driver, If you can't beat them, join them. Ditch your car, lose weight, cut commuting time and congestion/pollution. Its a no brainer.


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## ozboz (10 Jul 2019)

The only scourge on the streets are the ones running around with knives and guns murdering people , 
I watched that programme , some of those collisions with cyclists were horrendous, there were some cyclists behaving badly , but the motorised riders are 5 times worse in London , especially the food delivery ones , 
These programmes are from the bottom of the barrel though , fairly predictable in every way but they did try to highlight problems on both sides of the debate 
3/10 from me


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## Fab Foodie (10 Jul 2019)

johnnyb47 said:


> I laughed when i heard that guy saying "a plague of cyclists"
> I mean what would happen for argument sake if every cyclist in London turned there backs on cycling and started using there cars or public transport, and the converted cycle paths turned back into car use. Pollution levels would sky rocket due to the extra vehicles, Public transport would be busting even more than it is now with the increase of passengers and parking would nay on impossible. Heath benefits would be lost.
> On the more positive flip side if more people cycled all these problems would be reduced. This program only showed the extremes of bad cyclists and bad drivers The vast majority of both cyclist /driver are considerate, but this program was just feeding on the negatives, in a vein attempt to make it interesting. Traffic in city centres has reached saturation point and no new road layouts will ever solve it. The moaning motorists who refuse to accept this will just end up continuing to endure congestion and spiralling costs and become ever more bitter. A message to the car driver, If you can't beat them, join them. Ditch your car, lose weight, cut commuting time and congestion/pollution. Its a no brainer.


Heretic....


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## Phaeton (10 Jul 2019)

I watched it & laughed out loud in multiple places,


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## Mo1959 (10 Jul 2019)

Excellent twitter reply from Chris Boardman.


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1148622845695557632


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## winjim (10 Jul 2019)

johnnyb47 said:


> This program only showed the extremes of bad cyclists and bad drivers The vast majority of both cyclist /driver are considerate, but this program was just feeding on the negatives, in a vein attempt to make it interesting.


I dunno. I think that given what we know about pollution, oil wealth, conflict and politics, as well as congestion and general road safety, there's a good argument for saying that all driving, or at least the vast majority of it, is by its very nature selfish and inconsiderate. That's all quite apart from drivers' actual behaviour on the roads.


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## derrick (10 Jul 2019)

I liked the black cabbies having a moan, They are not happy unless moaning about something. 
I think most people will take it for what it is, Just another cheap shoot tv programme.


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## Johnno260 (10 Jul 2019)

Well cyclists were referred as a plague of locusts, many of the clips were well known ones, like the guy riding on a pavement who hits someone changing a wheel.

They also had shown many of the ride out? clips were kids go out and pop wheelies and are generally being a pain.

It did state that 99% of all road collisions are motor vehicles though in all fairness.

I do agree with some points, adults riding on pavements is a no no, and jumping red lights for any road user.

The people on Box Hill who held up traffic I can see residents getting mad, if it was me I would pull over and let people past, things like that help and many drivers thank me when I do that on steep climbs, yes I lose some momentum but you don't have a disgruntled motorist potentially taking their frustration out on a fellow cyclist further on their journey.


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## Johnno260 (10 Jul 2019)

where I switched off totally was when they spoke with Mr Loophole, I can't stand that guy and getting people off motoring offences on technicalities is morally wrong.

the total muppet at the end who close passed a police cyclist, while using a mobile, oh my, then while the cop was talking to her she is still using her phone, and her young kid was in the car on the front seat with no child seat/booster.


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## Phaeton (10 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> where I switched off totally was when they spoke with Mr Loophole, I can't stand that guy and getting people off motoring offences on technicalities is morally wrong.


The irony of him wanting more enforcement was laughable, it was a complete whoosh moment for him


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## snorri (10 Jul 2019)

ozboz said:


> These programmes are from the bottom of the barrel though , fairly predictable in every way but they did try to highlight problems on both sides of the debate 3/10 from me


I wouldn't have wanted my parents to have discovered a 3/10 result in any of my school exams, sounds like a major Fail to me.


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## Archie_tect (10 Jul 2019)

'Investigative documentaries' like this are knuckle-dragging, barrel-scraping. bear-baiting, Jeremy-Kyle-standard valueless crud which only serve to increase the divide, fired by blood-vessel-bursting reactionaries.


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## classic33 (10 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> Well cyclists were referred as a plague of locusts, many of the clips were well known ones, like the guy riding on a pavement who hits someone changing a wheel.
> 
> They also had shown many of the ride out? clips were kids go out and pop wheelies and are generally being a pain.
> 
> ...


Seemed happy enough when the Olympics made that area a well known place. Now, he's not so happy at going back to the area he once lived in.


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## Johnno260 (10 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Seemed happy enough when the Olympics made that area a well known place. Now, he's not so happy at going back to the area he once lived in.



True I’m sure they loved the tourism it brought to the area, you can’t have it both ways for sure. 

But a little more consideration to locals and other road users would be welcome, sure it was filmed from a negative point of view, but like I said I will pull over and allow faster road users past on steep climbs, it helps them have a more positive view, but also it means they won’t try and pass me dangerously.


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## classic33 (10 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> True I’m sure they loved the tourism it brought to the area, you can’t have it both ways for sure.
> 
> But a little more consideration to locals and other road users would be welcome, sure it was filmed from a negative point of view, but like I said I will pull over and allow faster road users past on steep climbs, it helps them have a more positive view, but also it means they won’t try and pass me dangerously.


He was just anti-cyclists though. Even pointing out the two coming downhill as "a problem".

I ride legal road vehicles and until people like him get that into their heads, there will always be this "Them & Us" attitude.

I'd be happy if he'd watch where he was going(Paying attention to the road ahead, and adapting his driving to suit), if he stopped turning to face a camera and most of all his VED was in date. Two years since it expired. Shouldn't, by law, be on the road.


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Jul 2019)

winjim said:


> He's not the one lurking on a forum, just waiting for his name to be mentioned so he can whip out the clever clever image file he's got stuffed in his back pocket. Which let's face it is downright weird.




I'm interested in hearing from @sue perb on his involvement in the programme, not least because he was billed as 'starring' in it. I've got a couple of questions including finding out what he thought of it.

Hopefully he'll answer here but he's been oddly quiet on Twitter since it went out, even though he'd been plugging it for the week before.


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## Johnno260 (10 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> He was just anti-cyclists though. Even pointing out the two coming downhill as "a problem".
> 
> I ride legal road vehicles and until people like him get that into their heads, there will always be this "Them & Us" attitude.
> 
> I'd be happy if he'd watch where he was going(Paying attention to the road ahead, and adapting his driving to suit), if he stopped turning to face a camera and most of all his VED was in date. Two years since it expired. Shouldn't, by law, be on the road.



Well everyone they interviewed was pretty much anti cyclist, except the UK's most hated cyclist, they added him to the mix to inflame peoples view more.

The people I worked with watched it, so work was fun this morning as they're all anti cyclist, as soon as they started I just said I have insurance, I don't need to have a registration plate as I obey the law, and I pay hefty council tax so have more right to use the road then they do using their own twisted logic against them, I have two cars so in taxes and VAT pay more then they do and the tax and VAT I pay on cycling stuff.


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## Edwardoka (10 Jul 2019)

The hashtag is full of upside down cars. My Twitter folks did good.



Phaeton said:


> The irony of him wanting more enforcement was laughable, it was a complete whoosh moment for him


The thing is, he only does this to make life easier for himself and to make more money from "clients". The more regulated cycling becomes, the easier it is to get his "clients" off after pointing out any infraction by a cyclist, imagined or otherwise, prior to being sent skyward by a bad driver.


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## Smudge (10 Jul 2019)

I thought the show had far more balance than i was expecting. There was the expected ignorant prejudice against cyclists on there, but there was also cyclists riding badly and riding in a way that really pisses off other road users.
The program also highlighted how vulnerable cyclists are and the dangerous way that vehicles are driven around them.


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## Phaeton (10 Jul 2019)

I've just followed a taxi in our village where there are some temporary 3 way light on a junction, he pulled up on the red, waited a couple of seconds & then drove straight through, he could not see if any traffic was coming from the left, as he cleared the red light the cars started to emerge from the left trn.


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## Richard A Thackeray (10 Jul 2019)

tom73 said:


> Funny that the same company has another show on channel 5 at the moment. Following an A and E dept which 2 doctors to my knowledge cycle in to work. One has been going it for over 30 years and is nationally held in regard by fellow A and E consultant's.


We have a couple of Consultants in our A&E who ride in regularly
Well.... one lives out at Hebden Bridge, so rides to station, gets train to Dewsbury, or Leeds, & rides over from there
The other lives in Leeds
Plus another A&E Consultant will ride in, if good weather

I know several others, including 4 Cardiology Consultants who regularly do (& an Elderly Medicine Consultant, who I don't think even has a driving licence!)



tom73 said:


> He rides what ever the weather even known to sleep over if snow is bad. Bet he's not seen a scourge by the many he's saved over the years and I bet they won't find any like him to balance things out.


If it's the programme about Barnsley, one is Julian Humphries, I know him, as he worked at our A&E before going to_ The Peoples Republic Of South Yorkshire_


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## Richard A Thackeray (10 Jul 2019)

I recorded it, on the 5+1, as I forgot about 
I watched about 15 minutes of it, & partly thought it's just London, _everybody's at each others throats, no matter what they're doing 
_
By that, I'm not downgrading any incidents/injuries/deaths, but it seems a_ 'Dog Eat Dog' _place
No room; people ride, as it's possibly quicker than tube/bus
Definately quicker than car, & no parking worries

Sadly, it doesn't seem to all work together, would most of the riders act like that, if they were in cars (jump lights, wrongway on one-ways - even if at dead of night)_
_


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## Edwardoka (10 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> would most of the riders act like that, if they were in cars (jump lights, wrongway on one-ways - even if at dead of night)


You realise of course that they will have collated many hours of footage and have made an editorial decision to show only the most egregious examples, rather than a sample reflective of the majority.


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## Richard A Thackeray (10 Jul 2019)

@Edwardoka 

Yes agreed, as they do with programmes like _Police Interceptors_, or the -referred to A&E series

I know a couple of Traffic-Officers, & they tell me there may 12 hours edited down to make a programme


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## Drago (11 Jul 2019)

The Guardian, which I used to enjoy reading but have grown to dislike of late, gave an absolutely spot on analysis of this programme. In short, they reckon it's a load of J. Arthur Rank.


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## Zanelad (11 Jul 2019)

The worst of both worlds, I thought. Although I did chuckle when the van driver asked the bellend with the video camera and the stab vest who was shagging his wife while he was out playing at being a copper.

Just glad I don't commute in a big city.


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## Johnno260 (11 Jul 2019)

The one that blew my mind was the lady who did the close pass at the end, who was also on her phone, the copper was talking to her and the idiot was still on her phone. 

She also had a kid in the front not on a child seat or booster.


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## tom73 (12 Jul 2019)

channel 5 PR official response (via peter Walker twitter feed) Don't think they quite get it ...


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## Leaway2 (12 Jul 2019)

"it was commissioned with the intention to stimulate debate" yeh! right!


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Jul 2019)

A mass debate by a bunch of self-gratification artists


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## mudsticks (12 Jul 2019)

View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157129866098145&id=35322908144


Sorry I've not scrolled back through the whole thread, to see if this shareable message has already been shared


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Jul 2019)

mudsticks said:


> View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157129866098145&id=35322908144
> 
> 
> Sorry I've not scrolled back through the whole thread of this shareable message has already been shared




How do we clone that man? Excellent well considered response.


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## classic33 (12 Jul 2019)

Awaiting a reply from "Mr Loophole", over his licenced tabbard system for cyclists.

Nigh on useless for recumbent use, from the rear. Said I'll wear one if the same rules apply to motorists. That they are registered to one person, and that they will not be tranferable. 

Should make identifying the driver of a vehicle where the owner is reluctant to name the driver easier in a collision.


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## flake99please (13 Jul 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> A mass debate by a bunch of self-gratification artists



I see what you did there.


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## Johnno260 (13 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Awaiting a reply from "Mr Loophole", over his licenced tabbard system for cyclists.
> 
> Nigh on useless for recumbent use, from the rear. Said I'll wear one if the same rules apply to motorists. That they are registered to one person, and that they will not be tranferable.
> 
> Should make identifying the driver of a vehicle where the owner is reluctant to name the driver easier in a collision.



The other solution to the owner being reluctant to name the driver is assume fault and say that’s ok, double points and fine.


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## sue perb (13 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm interested in hearing from @sue perb on his involvement in the programme, not least because he was billed as 'starring' in it. I've got a couple of questions including finding out what he thought of it.
> 
> Hopefully he'll answer here but he's been oddly quiet on Twitter since it went out, even though he'd been plugging it for the week before.


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## Slick (14 Jul 2019)

From the time gaps, I'm assuming you are being moderated for some reason?


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jul 2019)

Another odd response.

Is there some specific reason for your reticence to communicate using the written word?
You seem to have plenty to say when you're talking to journalists.


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## DCBassman (14 Jul 2019)

I found it a faintly ridiculous programme. 
Entirely in line with Daily Fail type thinking.
The cop on a bike was illuminating. 
The 'vigilante', whatever his motives or the rights and wrongs of it, struck me as idiotic.
It's one thing to report what you see when riding/commuting, a la @Arjimlad for example. To go out purely for the purpose is ludicrous.
Chris Boardman's video tweet following was the perfect foil for the nonsense.


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## classic33 (14 Jul 2019)

Is wearing a stab proof vest the latest cycling craze. Is it even legal?


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Is wearing a stab proof vest the latest cycling craze. Is it even legal?



I doubt there's any other civilian wearing one for cycling, so no.

There's nothing illegal about wearing PPE.


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## Pat "5mph" (14 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> From the time gaps, I'm assuming you are being moderated for some reason?


Incorrect


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## classic33 (14 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I doubt there's any other civilian wearing one for cycling, so no.
> 
> There's nothing illegal about wearing PPE.


It was more the reason given, "in case a motorist wants to start something". It's short of going equipped, given it's concealed from view.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I doubt there's any other civilian wearing one for cycling, so no.
> 
> There's nothing illegal about wearing PPE.



Fortunately no other cyclist wears PPE.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> It was more the reason given, "in case a motorist wants to start something". It's short of going equipped, given it's concealed from view.



Going equipped for what though? Survival?
It's a passive item of protection, concealment is irrelevant.


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## classic33 (14 Jul 2019)

I'd not consider a kevlar vest as PPE, for use should "any van drivers feel like getting out of their vans to play a bit of slap and tickle".

To me that's going looking for trouble, and "suiting up" for when it does happen, not if it happens.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> I'd not consider a kevlar vest as PPE, for use should "any van drivers feel like getting out of their vans to play a bit of slap and tickle".
> 
> To me that's going looking for trouble, and "suiting up" for when it does happen, not if it happens.




Unless he takes it off and swings it at someone, I think you're stretching things here.


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## classic33 (14 Jul 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Unless he takes it off and swings it at someone, I think you're stretching things here.


Concealed vest, with the next clip showing him putting a van driver in a headlock.

Disperses the force applied, spreading it over a larger area. 

The law isn't clear cut over the wearing of them, in England.


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## Slick (14 Jul 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Incorrect


Apologies Pat, but I just noticed his post came quite a number of hours after his last activity on the site. 

I thought it may have explained the disconnect in his response so far.


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## Johnno260 (14 Jul 2019)

This same discussion has blown up on Facebook about this show, some of the comments are plain disgusting. 

The usual tax insurance nonsense, when I commented I was told if you can’t keep up get off the road. 

Actually pretty ashamed that some of the comments are the from supposed human beings.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Concealed vest, with the next clip showing him putting a van driver in a headlock.
> 
> Disperses the force applied, spreading it over a larger area.
> 
> The law isn't clear cut over the wearing of them, in England.



Concealed vest that well known crime against fashion...


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## Edwardoka (15 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> This same discussion has blown up on Facebook about this show, some of the comments are plain disgusting.
> 
> The usual tax insurance nonsense, when I commented I was told if you can’t keep up get off the road.
> 
> Actually pretty ashamed that some of the comments are the from supposed human beings.


Facebook is a trash fire. An appalling place run by appalling people designed to inflame appalling opinions, and with appalling users who are all too eager to participate.

If I wanted to read ill-informed deranged bilge by credulous morons I'd unblock Donald Trump's twitter account.


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## Johnno260 (15 Jul 2019)

Well one comment said if you can’t keep up with the traffic flow get off the road, I said fine by me, the traffic in the town I work in is gridlocked most mornings so bicycle commuters are setting the pace.


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## Slick (15 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> Well one comment said if you can’t keep up with the traffic flow get off the road, I said fine by me, the traffic in the town I work in is gridlocked most mornings so bicycle commuters are setting the pace.


My admittedly pathetic retort when shouted at from an old builders van with nothing but black reek emitting from the rear was that I would if he would every time I came behind him in the Jag. Waste of time I know, but makes me feel like I'm doing my bit.


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## snorri (15 Jul 2019)

Cyclists are not the scourge of the streets, motorised vehicles are, particularly those carrying just one person.
Part of the problem is the sheer inefficiency of the motor car as a mode of single person transport in an urban setting. There is simply not enough space for everyone to travel this way, but the motorist is encouraged by clever advertising, freedom of the roads etc.. little wonder those taken in by the hype have feelings of frustration when people on bikes can permeate cities much more effectively.
The motorists complaining about cyclists causing delays on rural roads can also be accused of selective blindness. Cyclists can cause minor delays there, but these are far outweighed by the delays caused by cars to pedestrian travel in the urban setting where pedestrians are required to wait quite long periods for a break in motorised traffic, or are forced to take longer routes in order to find safe road crossing places.
Makes me wonder if the type of driver who considers their journey delayed by cyclists has similar feelings when as pedestrians they wait for a break in the motor traffic to allow them to cross the road.


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## Leaway2 (15 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Is wearing a stab proof vest the latest cycling craze. Is it even legal?


In what sense would it be illegal?


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> In what sense would it be illegal?


The use seems to be restricted to "security staff" and emergency services on the high street. He has said he's a bus driver.


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## Leaway2 (15 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> The use seems to be restricted .


By whom? Certainly not by law.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> The use seems to be restricted to "security staff" and emergency services on the high street. He has said he's a bus driver.



Here you go, five left in stock

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Armor-Knif...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B016I1C1CE


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> By whom? Certainly not by law.


It's a grey area when it comes to wearing one, if you aren't in security, workwise.


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## Milkfloat (16 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> It's a grey area when it comes to wearing one, if you aren't in security, workwise.



No it is not, at least in the UK it is perfectly legal, although maybe just a little odd.


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## DaveReading (16 Jul 2019)

I finally got round to watching a recording of it, no surprises as most of the comments were entirely predictable.

But I did love the part (I had to replay it a couple of times to make sure my ears weren't deceiving me) where the bloke, a taxi driver I think, referred to cyclists as a "plague of *lotuses*".

It wasn't clear whether that was a botanical or automotive reference, but either way it was a lovely image.


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## Leaway2 (16 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> It's a grey area when it comes to wearing one, if you aren't in security, workwise.


I can not find any reference to it being illegal. Why do you say it is a grey area?


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## Smudge (16 Jul 2019)

I cant see how a stab vest could ever be construed as illegal in any situation whatsoever.
It reminds me of the film Monty Python And The Holy Grail. where the modern day police turn up at the battle at the end of the film. Of all the weapons there, a copper grabs a shield and says 'Thats an offensive weapon that is'


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## Slick (16 Jul 2019)

DaveReading said:


> I finally got round to watching a recording of it, no surprises as most of the comments were entirely predictable.
> 
> But I did love the part (I had to replay it a couple of times to make sure my ears weren't deceiving me) where the bloke, a taxi driver I think, referred to cyclists as a "plague of *lotuses*".
> 
> It wasn't clear whether that was a botanical or automotive reference, but either way it was a lovely image.


Didn't spot that little nugget, probably wincing from all the pi5h coming out his mouth.


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## mjr (16 Jul 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> I can not find any reference to it being illegal. Why do you say it is a grey area?


I read on some sites that there is an EU-wide ban on civilians using military-spec body armour, but I did not find the actual regulation or directive text, or which UK SI implements it - but it's a long way from my usual searches of transport law!


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## classic33 (16 Jul 2019)

mjr said:


> I read on some sites that there is an EU-wide ban on civilians using military-spec body armour, but I did not find the actual regulation or directive text, or which UK SI implements it - but it's a long way from my usual searches of transport law!


It's legal to purchase and own stab proof vests in England. The grey area is with the wearing of concealed vests. Bus drivers, which is what he said he was, are not on that list. 

They are used by certain jobs/professions. The detail will be in the small print, when you get the vest.


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## glasgowcyclist (16 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> It's legal to purchase and own stab proof vests in England. The grey area is with the wearing of concealed vests. Bus drivers, which is what he said he was, are not on that list.
> 
> They are used by certain jobs/professions. The detail will be in the small print, when you get the vest.




It doesn't matter what the seller says, it's the legislation that matters.
Is there anything in statute that even hints at body armour being illegal in the UK?


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## Milkfloat (16 Jul 2019)

It is not illegal to purchase, own or wear a stab vest in the UK, what law do you think you are breaking? Many moons ago I worked a door and an ill informed member of staff called the Police because someone tried getting into the club wearing one. He was turned away, but a precautionary call was put in. When the Police came (including a Sergeant) they confirmed that wearing a vest was not illegal at all.

An old post about vests can be seen at: https://police.community/topic/269503-law-regarding-body-armor/ and there are numerous up to date news articles saying again that they are not illegal to wear.


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## winjim (17 Jul 2019)

My Chinese takeaway was delivered by someone wearing a stab vest and body camera.


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## snorri (17 Jul 2019)

classic33 said:


> Is wearing a stab proof vest the latest cycling craze. Is it even legal?


No, the unproven action of one person cannot be described as a "craze".
It's illegal when used for thread topic diversion.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Jul 2019)

winjim said:


> My Chinese takeaway was delivered by someone wearing a stab vest and body camera.



Which cell were you kept in?


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## mudsticks (17 Jul 2019)

DaveReading said:


> But I did love the part (I had to replay it a couple of times to make sure my ears weren't deceiving me) where the bloke, a taxi driver I think, referred to cyclists as a "plague of *lotuses*".
> 
> It wasn't clear whether that was a botanical or automotive reference, but either way it was a lovely image.



He would have been referring to me n my mates.. 

Us cycling yogis.

Those taxi drivers do hate it when we take to the streets, pedalling about en mass, with our legs crossed..


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## KneesUp (17 Jul 2019)

winjim said:


> My Chinese takeaway was delivered by someone wearing a stab vest and body camera.


This sounds like the set up line for a gag - but it's a sad reflection on society. (Or he wasn't just delivering food I suppose, although the body cam might be frowned upon if that's the case!)


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## Johnno260 (17 Jul 2019)

This programme has certainly inflamed the ignorant masses.

The amount of grief I have gotten due to this crap show from people I know is a joke, I have actually taken to refusing to respond now, as obviously the minority of idiots used in those clips means all cyclists are the same.

Maybe when everyone is choking on polluted air they may realise cyclists weren’t that bad.


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## Edwardoka (17 Jul 2019)

I've just had a thought. A fair few of the gammony types who moan about cyclists' perceived ignorance and "flouting" of the Highway Code will have obtained their licence before the theory test was introduced in 1996 - which means they've literally never been tested on their knowledge of the HWC.

Hmmmmm.


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## potsy (17 Jul 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> I can not find any reference to it being illegal. Why do you say it is a grey area?


Easier than admitting he is wrong?


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## mjr (18 Jul 2019)

Edwardoka said:


> I've just had a thought. A fair few of the gammony types who moan about cyclists' perceived ignorance and "flouting" of the Highway Code will have obtained their licence before the theory test was introduced in 1996 - which means they've literally never been tested on their knowledge of the HWC.
> 
> Hmmmmm.


And most of those who have passed theory tests will never have read any updates to the code, so still believe that cyclists with flashing head/tail lights are breaking the law, among other things.

But really, it's fairly obvious when riding around that many motorists either don't know or don't care about road laws: green means go, amber means go, red means go if you think you'll get away with it and that kerbed bit at the side is overflow for passing motorists queueing to turn right and so on.

I was out of the country when channel 5, scourge of the airwaves, broadcast its hate, but it does feel like there's more abuse and less consideration from drivers since I returned. Hopefully it's a temporary blip.


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## Johnno260 (18 Jul 2019)

Where I work they're very anti cyclist anyway, since that show I have taken to ignoring the people I share the office with, I use the desk that's partitioned off and have earphones in most of the time, I don't need to interact with the morons anyway as I technically work for the USA site.


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## mjr (18 Jul 2019)

Johnno260 said:


> [...] I don't need to interact with the morons anyway as I technically work for the USA site.


Must... resist... obvious... joke...


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## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2019)

DaveReading said:


> I finally got round to watching a recording of it, no surprises as most of the comments were entirely predictable.
> 
> But I did love the part (I had to replay it a couple of times to make sure my ears weren't deceiving me) where the bloke, a taxi driver I think, referred to cyclists as a "plague of *lotuses*".
> 
> It wasn't clear whether that was a botanical or automotive reference, but either way it was a lovely image.



Obviously a reference to Chris Boardman's revolutionary Lotus track bike


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## Dazzyt66 (25 Jul 2019)

I just wasted 45 mins of my life watching this. Just to come away with the knowledge that (as usual in all walks of life) there are d***heads and jobsworths on both sides...but I may buy a go pro...


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## rugby bloke (7 Aug 2019)

Saw an interesting interaction yesterday afternoon. Waiting at the lights waiting to cross Euston Road, a pedestrian taps the guy in front of me and told him that when he rode through a red light on a pedestrian crossing he almost hit a visually impaired person who had not idea he was therefore. The cyclist looked sheepish and tried to edge as far way as possible. In this case I can only agree with the pedestrian, riding like that is thoughtless and dangerous. Plus it gained him no time as he was caught by the next set of lights.


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## Slick (7 Aug 2019)

I saw a car go through a red light yesterday.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Aug 2019)

Slick said:


> I saw a car go through a red light yesterday.



That's a daily occurrence, but unlike Gammons we don't bleat about it.


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## Leaway2 (8 Aug 2019)

Slick said:


> I saw a car go through a red light yesterday.


Only one?


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## Johnno260 (8 Aug 2019)

Cars cutting corners, not yielding to the right at roundabouts, red lights etc is a every day occurrence.

I gave a statement regarding a car cutting a corner and hitting another head on, best part is as it was behind me the guy was screwed thanks to the fly6.


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## Slick (8 Aug 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> Only one?


Actually, 3 went through the same light but I didn't think anyone would believe me.


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## Dazzyt66 (10 Aug 2019)

rugby bloke said:


> Saw an interesting interaction yesterday afternoon. Waiting at the lights waiting to cross Euston Road, a pedestrian taps the guy in front of me and told him that when he rode through a red light on a pedestrian crossing he almost hit a visually impaired person who had not idea he was therefore. The cyclist looked sheepish and tried to edge as far way as possible. In this case I can only agree with the pedestrian, riding like that is thoughtless and dangerous. Plus it gained him no time as he was caught by the next set of lights.



I was crossing by Euston a few years ago (on a zebra crossing) when some idiot carried on riding through at about 20mph - missing me enough so I felt the slipstream. Naturally I shouted something like ‘d*ckhead!’ - the reply I got was ‘f*ck off!’ - it’s the minority like this that people remember...


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## GuyBoden (10 Aug 2019)

I saw a teenager pulling a wheelie across both sides of an A road last week, his wheelie lasted a long time, he was good and well balanced. All approaching cars stopped to give him space, some even clapped him for his endeavors, it was a quiet mid-week afternoon, no one seemed to be in a rush.

I'm not advocating wheelie pulling, just stating what happened......


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