# Who has a power meter?



## huwsparky (14 Aug 2015)

Hi,

Looking for some feedback on power metres and wondering how many people on here trained with one?

I've been looking primarily at the stages unit, would seem to be a good way for me to go as I have an Ultegra bike and my next bike (hopefully being ordered soon) will also be Ultegra. Would also consider the Garmin pedal based system but from the digging I have done the stages system seems more accurate.

What do you use to Analise your data? Been looking into the training peaks and seems to be highly regarded in terms of training to power?

My goals are to compete next year, maybe a few crits and cat4 road races to see how I enjoy them. 

Basically looking for any advice/guidance on how to go about things. Willing to put in some hard work over the impending winter and want to get myself in as good of a shape as possible ready for next year.

Thanks.


----------



## Citius (14 Aug 2015)

Garmin seems to be very inconsistent in terms of readings, and are very sensitive to the correct torque on the crank arm. Stages is a bargain, but it only takes power from one leg and then doubles it for an estimated power number. So long as the readings are consistent though, it is still a useful guide. Training peaks is also well regarded.

In truth though, it is possible to be competitive at amateur level without a PM. Join a good club and get out with their fast road men on a regular basis. That will bring on your fitness and give you some useful bunch skills - which could be as valuable, if not more so, than a power meter.

I'm not saying 'don't buy one' - just from where you are now, I wouldn't buy one yet. Do a season first and see how you get on with it. You might decide it's not needed.


----------



## midlife (14 Aug 2015)

Did someone type "bunch" and not "peloton" 

I was chatting to a colleague today who rides by his power meter and was moaning that he didn't have to look at his meter to note that he was tired!

Shaun


----------



## huwsparky (14 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Garmin seems to be very inconsistent in terms of readings, and are very sensitive to the correct torque on the crank arm. Stages is a bargain, but it only takes power from one leg and then doubles it for an estimated power number. So long as the readings are consistent though, it is still a useful guide. Training peaks is also well regarded.
> 
> In truth though, it is possible to be competitive at amateur level without a PM. Join a good club and get out with their fast road men on a regular basis. That will bring on your fitness and give you some useful bunch skills - which could be as valuable, if not more so, than a power meter.
> 
> I'm not saying 'don't buy one' - just from where you are now, I wouldn't buy one yet. Do a season first and see how you get on with it. You might decide it's not needed.



Thanks,

I am a member of a club, but rarely go anymore due to primarily the slow speed and the amount of stop starting.

Aberystwyth cycle club do a chain gang once a week that I know of but it's 35 miles away and probably impossible for me to make it in time due to work. Nothing else more local to me unfortunately. Need to find out about their club rides on Sunday's though...

I do ride with a few triathletes every other week or so usually on a weekend and that's a decent workout. I wouldn't call myself fast by any stretch but the people I do know that I could ride with regularly won't bring me on at all unfortunately.

Maybe I should just ride as I am over the winter as I'm still seeing improvment and see how I get on next year and take it from there like you suggested.

The fascination I have with getting one is probably just down to loving gadgets mostly! I very much could do with learning bunch skills though, just difficult to find the right environment living in the back of beyond.


----------



## MrPie (16 Aug 2015)

Garmin Vector pedalywotsits owner here, mainly coz Stages don't do Campag. They are consistently accurate as long as you set them up correctly and calibrate frequently, which is easy peasy. I really like em: does wot it says on the tin. I use Golden Cheatah for data analysis. It's free and has more functionality that you can possibly ever need. You can also hook up your turbo trainer and go 'Sufferfest' (or whatever your pain cave video of choice is) with power on the hoof......which is particularly useful for targeted training.


----------



## huwsparky (16 Aug 2015)

MrPie said:


> Garmin Vector pedalywotsits owner here, mainly coz Stages don't do Campag. They are consistently accurate as long as you set them up correctly and calibrate frequently, which is easy peasy. I really like em: does wot it says on the tin. I use Golden Cheatah for data analysis. It's free and has more functionality that you can possibly ever need. You can also hook up your turbo trainer and go 'Sufferfest' (or whatever your pain cave video of choice is) with power on the hoof......which is particularly useful for targeted training.



Thanks, not heard of Golden chetah, will look into it though. I really quite like the idea of a power Meter but have been spending the weekend attempting to talk myself out of one!!!


----------



## Citius (16 Aug 2015)

Ask yourself what you want to achieve, then work out if a power meter is needed to get you there and how you plan to make use of the info it gives you.

Before you do anything else, at least buy this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554


----------



## poynedexter (16 Aug 2015)

i have a cheap one via a tacx flow turbo. is it accurate? dunno, is it repeatable yes and it cost £180. i use it for structured shorter training sessions and tracking progress. its useful to judge how tired i actually am too.

i wouldnt want a PM for group rides or racing. i wouldnt find it useful at all, like strava or av speed, nice to look at but means nothing in the real sense.


----------



## lukasran (17 Aug 2015)

i got a stages two years ago initially for pacing an ironman, maybe sell it afterwards. but i just love having power reading on the garmin and feel like im missing out when its not there. if you like gadgets you will get addicted to it. its great for trainer road and zwift too for indoor training, i could def put it to more use with more serious application to training with the data, i dont race but am intrestead in tt ing which i can see a great use for it. however i really enjoy seeing what im putting out as a number and how that affects times on strava compared to my heart rate, weight, position etc. just get one dude.


----------



## JimboJames1972 (17 Aug 2015)

I was going to post my question in a separate thread, but I'm hoping it will slot in here nicely...

I've just upgraded to "Premium" on Strava and that allows me to track my power output. [NOTE: this premium upgrade was free for the first month, then a few pounds each month, far cheaper than any of the power meters I've seen so far].

So far I have only analysed my power usage after my ride, rather than looking at it live. To be honest I don't know if the Strava app on my phone will allow live power readings, but I am only starting out and rely on the pain/tiredness in my legs to tell me how hard I am working at any given time!

My main question is - how accurate is the Strava power calculations? Does anyone know how the data is worked out? Obviously it tracks my GPS position, knows my speed (and altitude) and I had to input my weight when I first signed up. For reference, my last few rides have been 20-25 miles, gentle Suffolk inclines and with average speeds 18-20mph. Strava shows me averaging 140-150W with peaks at about 450W. Does this sound in the right sort of ball-park?

James


----------



## Hacienda71 (17 Aug 2015)

Strava power readings are not accurate. Not because the basic calcs are way out, although they are a bit low, but because they can't take into account the wind speed, road surface, temperature, proximity to vehicles and other riders etc etc.


----------



## Citius (17 Aug 2015)

Strava power was a pointless waste of a developer's time. There are too many external factors that it doesn't take into account (like wind) for it to be taken seriously. The only power reading worth taking any notice of is one that is taken from source - ie the bike you are riding. Anything else is just a guess.

Edit - as above. Hacienda beat me to it..


----------



## JimboJames1972 (17 Aug 2015)

Thanks for the input. It's as I feared - I could not see any way of Strava taking into account wind etc. looks like I will have to shell out for a "real" Pm,

J


----------



## huwsparky (17 Aug 2015)

Strava once said I made 460w average for 2 miles! #nevergoingtohappen


----------



## huwsparky (17 Aug 2015)

lukasran said:


> i got a stages two years ago initially for pacing an ironman, maybe sell it afterwards. but i just love having power reading on the garmin and feel like im missing out when its not there. if you like gadgets you will get addicted to it. its great for trainer road and zwift too for indoor training, i could def put it to more use with more serious application to training with the data, i dont race but am intrestead in tt ing which i can see a great use for it. however i really enjoy seeing what im putting out as a number and how that affects times on strava compared to my heart rate, weight, position etc. just get one dude.



One of them things I guess, when it's gone you miss it. I kind of feel like that with my HRM. I find it particularly useful on longer rides to guage how much I've got left in the tank. I roughly know how quickly my HR drops after an effort, when it starts to slow coming back down I've got to pace myself If i have some distance to go.

Been looking a bit about the book @Citius alluded to earlier in the thread. From what I can make out it's going to be nigh on impossible for me to actually make sense of what I'm being fed from the power Meter and affectively use this to improve myself. Seems to be a lot of science involved and probably not really going to help me improve without spending a lot of time understanding what is telling me.

Still doesn't stop me thinking that it would be a pretty cool gadget to have though. Lot of money for a gadget to give me a figure on my Garmin though!


----------



## Hacienda71 (17 Aug 2015)

There are a few companies developing and in some cases close to producing cheaper pm's. You may find the prices becoming a bit more competitive over the coming months.


----------



## Citius (17 Aug 2015)

Prices will certainly come down as more become available, but the basic premise will still be the same - ie unless you plan on interpreting and acting on the data it gives you, it's still effectively a waste of money. But if you do plan on going technical with your training, then it could be money well spent.


----------



## Rustybucket (17 Aug 2015)

I think when the stages meter gets to under £300 I might get one!


----------



## lukasran (17 Aug 2015)

well mine was 600 quid, which is nearly 3 times what i paid for my 2nd hand 06 spesh allez. but i would take that combo everytime. get on trainer road with it and you can easily quantify your improvements and follow some level of structured plan. i dont have the book but its certainly not a waste of money without it. like buying a nice carbon beauty wouldnt be. but i got a pm instead and enjoy my cycling all the more for it.


----------



## Citius (17 Aug 2015)

The book is not essential (although it is useful) - but unless you are using the data a PM gives you with some kind of purpose, you might as well just use Strava's power numbers and pretend..


----------



## si_c (23 Aug 2015)

Been looking at power meters of late, as I got to thinking about one, Powertaps seem to be on ebay second hand consistently around the £300-£400 mark, some with a wheel some not. Worth taking a look tbh.

I'm a numbers person, so like the idea of knowing how much effort I have put in, irrespective of how tired I am, or what the prevailing wind is. I currently use HRM as a proxy, but it's imprecise.


----------



## midlife (23 Aug 2015)

There's a book someone wrote called (i think) "how to train and race using a power meter". Might be helpful?

Shaun


----------



## Citius (23 Aug 2015)

midlife said:


> There's a book someone wrote called (i think) "how to train and race using a power meter". Might be helpful?
> 
> Shaun



I already linked to it on p1.



si_c said:


> I currently use HRM as a proxy, but it's imprecise.



HR won't work as a proxy, because it is no measure of output. Speed is about the only other proxy worth considering.


----------



## huwsparky (23 Aug 2015)

Little did I know but a guy I regularly ride with uses a Stages unit. Never even realised! I found it quite interesting looking through some of the rides we had done together to get a rough estimate of what my power would be. 

We did exactly the same 70 mile loop today as last Sunday and went 0.5 mph average slower today but the watts was pretty much the same, that would probably be down to totally saturated roads, early breaking and his jacket acting like a parachute!


----------



## poynedexter (23 Aug 2015)

huwsparky said:


> Little did I know but a guy I regularly ride with uses a Stages unit. Never even realised! I found it quite interesting looking through some of the rides we had done together to get a rough estimate of what my power would be.
> 
> We did exactly the same 70 mile loop today as last Sunday and went 0.5 mph average slower today but the watts was pretty much the same, that would probably be down to totally saturated roads, early breaking and his jacket acting like a parachute!


 
your mates power will be irrelavant to yours. different rider weight and size, bike differences and where you rode in the group will mean the power output is individual even if your av speed was the same.

as a training tool, your numbers are yours.


----------



## huwsparky (23 Aug 2015)

poynedexter said:


> your mates power will be irrelavant to yours. different rider weight and size, bike differences and where you rode in the group will mean the power output is individual even if your av speed was the same.
> 
> as a training tool, your numbers are yours.



That's pretty obvious really.

According to Strava I once made 500w for 5 miles (never going to happen).

I had no idea at all what I could make. Now I do, that's all I was saying. I'm quite aware that his figures won't tally with mine exactly but I bet I could guess mine to within 10watts knowing what I now know which a lot more than I did before.


----------



## Citius (23 Aug 2015)

Does your mate know his FTP..??


----------



## huwsparky (23 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Does your mate know his FTP..??


Nope, just a toy. He knows less about power meters than I do! He can do what he likes with his money I suppose but If i were to get one I'd at least give it a go at going about it properly. I told him to have a look at that book you linked me to and training peaks to get started. Told him to have a look at YouTube to sort his zones out as there were a few guides there on how to get readings when I was looking earlier last week.

I found it quite interesting just seing the different powers for different rides we had done together knowing some were hard rides and some were easy. Didn't mean anything to me but interesting all the same.


----------



## si_c (23 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> HR won't work as a proxy, because it is no measure of output. Speed is about the only other proxy worth considering.


It won't be a proxy for the power you are putting out no, but it will allow you to gauge the intensity of your ride, and when used with speed it can be used to compare roughly with other rides you have done. But as I said above, for this it is imprecise as there are many variables for which you have no control, hence my looking into getting a power meter myself 

What I'd like to do is be able to use the HRM as a stress indicator, i.e. how much stress is my body under for a given power output, and compare that back to previous rides, and hopefully see some improvement as time goes by.


----------



## Citius (24 Aug 2015)

si_c said:


> What I'd like to do is be able to use the HRM as a stress indicator, i.e. how much stress is my body under for a given power output, and compare that back to previous rides, and hopefully see some improvement as time goes by.



Trouble is, the higher the strsss/effort level - the less reliable HR is as an indicator


----------



## Rustybucket (5 Sep 2015)

Did you get a power meter?


----------



## huwsparky (5 Sep 2015)

Rustybucket said:


> Did you get a power meter?


Not yet, but will be getting one, I've made up my mind! Will probably wait till the cycle show end of the month in case there are any bargains to be had first.


----------



## Citius (5 Sep 2015)

Unlikely, tbh. We're not at the stage where people are discounting them just yet...


----------



## screenman (5 Sep 2015)

What do the people who bring money into most subjects spend theirs on?


----------



## Citius (5 Sep 2015)

screenman said:


> What do the people who bring money into most subjects spend theirs on?



Not sure I understand the question?


----------

