# Increasing endurance, but why is most of my cycle ride in Heart rate zone 5



## Hockeynut (2 Jun 2020)

I'm not sure if this is the right section of the forum, please move if not. It's about me trying to get fitter through cycling. 

I'm a 43 year old male, 86kg and 190cm tall (that's 13st 9lb and 6'3"), my Average Resting Heart rate gets recorded at ~60bpm (wearing vivoactive 3 long term). This is the year that I am would like to crack being able to go for rides of more than 10 miles, build up endurance, I want to go out for 2-3 hour rides for 30+ miles. I'm heading out with my friend each ride, which helps with motivation, one I notice that whenever we hit an incline, he gradually passes me, but he seems to power it in a high gear, where I'm spinning on a low gear because my legs can no longer push in a higher gear.

One constant I have always noticed is whenever I go for bike rides, most of it shows as zone 5. What I've never been able to work out is whether I am that unfit (it's possible) or whether it's a device thing. (Using a Garmin Vivoactive 3 - Elevate HR.) 

When I go for a decent Bike Ride it's like this. This was a ride yesterday of 15 miles over an hour, no crazy climbing. It's only my 3rd ride of the year on my road bike.

Z5 > 161
Z4 = 143 - 160










The ride before was shorter, 9 miles, but similar effect.


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## CXRAndy (2 Jun 2020)

You are not cardiovascular fit enough yet. Also sounds like legs are weak.

Not to worry, here is the plan

First ride solo, so you can set the correct pace of Z2 mostly.

Get a HR chest strap, far more reliable. Wahoo Tickr are excellent Ant+ and Bluetooth

Spin a high cadence 85+ ideally 90+rpm. Try and hold this cadence for an hour in Z2 HR. Ignore speed or distance.

Once you have achieved an hour, extend 15 mins at a time in Z2. Once you can ride 2+ hours, ideally 3 hours non stop in Z2

Come back and we will discuss power drills


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## MrGrumpy (2 Jun 2020)

Are you trying to push in a high gear all the time ? As above spin to win, seriously get used to spinning an easy gear the rest will come naturally. The number of times I see some jumping up and down on a super high gear trying to go faster ! If your in Zone 5-6 all the time then your hitting it too hard ! Just had a look in my garmin stats for this mornings commute, zone 1 all the way for 15 miles. My resting HR is 46 approx and I averaged 112 for the whole ride. 

You are a few years younger and 2 stone lighter than me . Cycle more and keep the HR low, fitness will come quick !


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Jun 2020)

As above you are not fit enough to keep up with your mate. Average Z5 is crazy. Do you know what you actual max HR is on a bike? Don’t rely on 220 - age etc.

I typically average Z2 on a ride and only push into Z4 on longer hills if I’m in the mood. So up to about 70% max HR as average.

The worst thing for working on endurance is cycling with someone fitter than you as you’ll be tempted to push harder than you want or need to. Get out on your own and be disciplined about staying in Z2 even on hills. That’ll build your endurance and the durability of your body for longer distance. As above build time in the saddle bit by bit. Ignore average speeds and distance they don’t matter when building endurance, length of ride does.


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## HarryTheDog (2 Jun 2020)

As others have said you are just not fit enough yet, my partner started traing around 6 weeks ago and we went for a 24 mile ride on sunday, my Avg heart rate 100bpm hers 144 and thats with me on the front into a headwind. You will get fitter in time to speed it up you need more time on the bike, my partner does structured training and is on the turbo 3 times per week, on the road once. She is a fair bit older than you and is making fair gains in both power and aerobic fitness.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jun 2020)

Alternatively....
Ditch all the zone stuff and associated mumbo-jumbo and focus on going in a bike ride.
Pedal at a cadence that comes naturally.
Do some shorter fast rides but focus on longer distance every now and then. Pace is everything and comes with practice as does spending hours in the saddle grinding along.
If you’re slow at hills, practice them, makes sure you relax your upper body rather than wrestle the bike up the slope.

Endurance? How far you looking to ride? Is time that important or is it about Strava bragging rights?

After a long abscence, lockdown has seen me back on the bike. Started with easy Flat 10 milers to regain some overall fitness after CV19. Threw in a few hills which I crawled-up. Added some 20s and 30s and built-up from there. Sunday a non-stop rolling 53 miles in 4 hours on 1 bottle with 2 dextrosols, 1 hydration tab. Flew up the hill I had practiced on....
57, 90kg, 5’9” 1 coronary stent.

Depends what you want to do? 4 years ago I rode 208 plus miles in ~ 27 hours. Not record breaking, but who cares? It was twice as far as I’d ever ridden before....

https://www.relive.cc/view/vMv85jLpeNO


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## Milkfloat (2 Jun 2020)

I would ignore the zones until you are fit enough to work out what your true zones are. A true Zone 5 and you would be lucky to last 5 minutes before you collapsed. If you are with a friend and want to push yourself make them ride at a speed where you can just about have a converation, but it is difficult. This will boost your cardiovascular system and your aerobic capacity. When you can ride for an hour like this you can start to add a few harder efforts in for a few minutes at a time where you won't want to talk to anyone.


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## lane (2 Jun 2020)

Can you please explain how you have calculated your zones or are you relying on some approximation or using the HR device default zones. Unless you set your own zones correctly (there are various ways of doing this all documented online - see British Cycling for example) you really don't know what zone you are working in.


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## CXRAndy (2 Jun 2020)

lane said:


> Can you please explain how you have calculated your zones or are you relying on some approximation or using the HR device default zones. Unless you set your own zones correctly (there are various ways of doing this all documented online - see British Cycling for example) you really don't know what zone you are working in.



Its quite easy to work out zones. They do vary a bit as fitness develops but not massively. 

Simplest way is to balls out up a hill until you're gasping and can't continue. That should give you a close max HR. 

Go to British cycling and several other Zone calculate websites. They all will be with a few bpm of each other for zones.

Ride according to zones, but its not like a switch, where 1bpm tips you into another zone


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## lane (2 Jun 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Its quite easy to work out zones. They do vary a bit as fitness develops but not massively.
> 
> Simplest way is to balls out up a hill until you're gasping and can't continue. That should give you a close max HR.
> 
> ...



I don't think (may be wrong) that BC use max HR to calculate zones. That said nothing wrong with that (what you describe is exactly what I did) but might be confusing as zones using max HR are different % from zone % on BC website IIRC.

Edit - which is why I suggested the OP look at the website and follow that.


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## CXRAndy (2 Jun 2020)

British cycling use Functional threshold HR. I understand that to be a HR where you can work maximum effort for an hour 

I punched in 3 different number over 6 bpm difference. The zones only varied 1 or 2 bpm. Not a great difference.


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## Hockeynut (2 Jun 2020)

Thanks everyone for your replies, it's been really helpful. The zone 2 advice sounds pretty common, as well as not trying to keep up with another person. I had thought it was good for my improvement to push myself to keep up with him. I would add that I struggle to 'take it easy', so I find keeping to lower heart zones/effort really hard, it doesn't take much to tip me quickly to Z3-4, and ultimately to Z5+. All that said it's not often I'm trying for high gears, I only do it on downhills, to feel some resistance.



CXRAndy said:


> You are not cardiovascular fit enough yet. Also sounds like legs are weak.



It's nice to find words not being minced, quite frankly it's what I've wondered for a while, but have struggled to believe I could be that weak. It makes sense I guess, I know my upper legs are not strong, this is part of my reasoning for doing this. Chicken... egg.... 



CXRAndy said:


> Get a HR chest strap, far more reliable. Wahoo Tickr are excellent Ant+ and Bluetooth
> Spin a high cadence 85+ ideally 90+rpm. Try and hold this cadence for an hour in Z2 HR. Ignore speed or distance.
> Come back and we will discuss power drills



I love an excuse to buy new toys.  I'll grab a cadence sensor and a stem computer while I'm at it. 



MrGrumpy said:


> Are you trying to push in a high gear all the time ?



No, infact some slight inclines I am down to the lowest gear I can by nearing the top.



YukonBoy said:


> As above you are not fit enough to keep up with your mate. Average Z5 is crazy. Do you know what you actual max HR is on a bike? Don’t rely on 220 - age etc.


I only know what my Garmin watch tells me at the moment, the highest I've recorded max on a ride was 188bpm.



HarryTheDog said:


> As others have said you are just not fit enough yet, my partner started training around 6 weeks ago and we went for a 24 mile ride on sunday, my Avg heart rate 100bpm hers 144 and thats with me on the front into a headwind. You will get fitter in time to speed it up you need more time on the bike, my partner does structured training and is on the turbo 3 times per week, on the road once. She is a fair bit older than you and is making fair gains in both power and aerobic fitness.



That's really encouraging, thanks.



Fab Foodie said:


> Alternatively....
> Ditch all the zone stuff and associated mumbo-jumbo and focus on going in a bike ride.
> If you’re slow at hills, practice them, makes sure you relax your upper body rather than wrestle the bike up the slope.
> 
> Endurance? How far you looking to ride? Is time that important or is it about Strava bragging rights?


Far from it, it's because I want to enjoy going on a ride for more than about 5 miles that I'm trying to improve this! Plus I want to improve my upper leg strength as a general goal, this is just a more fun way of doing it. I always check out Strava, but only for me, to monitor any progress. I'll try the hill tip, thanks.



Fab Foodie said:


> Pedal at a cadence that comes naturally.


This could be part of it, I crave the feeling of resistance, it doesn't have to be heavy, but some.



Milkfloat said:


> I would ignore the zones until you are fit enough to work out what your true zones are. A true Zone 5 and you would be lucky to last 5 minutes before you collapsed. If you are with a friend and want to push yourself make them ride at a speed where you can just about have a converation, but it is difficult. This will boost your cardiovascular system and your aerobic capacity. When you can ride for an hour like this you can start to add a few harder efforts in for a few minutes at a time where you won't want to talk to anyone.


I'll try mixing a bit of solo riding in, but also ask him to take it easier, to help me for now. Thanks. 



lane said:


> Can you please explain how you have calculated your zones or are you relying on some approximation or using the HR device default zones.


Using the Garmin cycling setting. 









CXRAndy said:


> Simplest way is to balls out up a hill until you're gasping and can't continue. That should give you a close max HR.


I've done that before until I couldn't continue and had to get off, jelly legged. The max I've seen come up on my heart rate is 188.


CXRAndy said:


> Go to British cycling and several other Zone calculate websites. They all will be with a few bpm of each other for zones.





lane said:


> I don't think (may be wrong) that BC use max HR to calculate zones. That said nothing wrong with that (what you describe is exactly what I did) but might be confusing as zones using max HR are different % from zone % on BC website IIRC.
> 
> Edit - which is why I suggested the OP look at the website and follow that.





CXRAndy said:


> British cycling use Functional threshold HR. I understand that to be a HR where you can work maximum effort for an hour
> 
> I punched in 3 different number over 6 bpm difference. The zones only varied 1 or 2 bpm. Not a great difference.



I'm reading some parts of the British Cycling website about HZ zone calcs. In the Threshold Test it talks about using 20 mins at a certain cadence and taking the average HR. I couldn't do that as I don't have a cadence sensor, yet. Then I put that value into this calculator. In the meantime is there any other method I can use that would at least give me a better idea for now?


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Jun 2020)

That calc shows 179 as max but you say you’ve reached 188. Replace 179 with 188 for a start.


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## CXRAndy (2 Jun 2020)

Hockeynut said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies, it's been really helpful. The zone 2 advice sounds pretty common, as well as not trying to keep up with another person. I had thought it was good for my improvement to push myself to keep up with him. I would add that I struggle to 'take it easy', so I find keeping to lower heart zones/effort really hard, it doesn't take much to tip me quickly to Z3-4, and ultimately to Z5+. All that said it's not often I'm trying for high gears, I only do it on downhills, to feel some resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The 188bpm is close enough to give you a basis of zones. If you took 180 as threshold compared to 188 the difference in zone 2 is 

122-149 (180)

127-156 (188)

You can see there isnt a great deal of difference. You would try and stay somewhere in the middle 130-140 ish. That is good enough to train with. Spin away for as long as possible. This will involve using inner chainring and easier gears on the back. You might think its silly slow speeds. Buts its what works if you put the time into it.


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## Hockeynut (2 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> That calc shows 179 as max but you say you’ve reached 188. Replace 179 with 188 for a start.


Done.



CXRAndy said:


> The 188bpm is close enough to give you a basis of zones. If you took 180 as threshold compared to 188 the difference in zone 2 is
> 
> 122-149 (180)
> 
> 127-156 (188)


As in use 180 that on the website as the FTHR for now? Like this?


Now I’m double confused... or naive, how my zone 5 is more than my Max HR! And do I put 189-217 in my Garmin settings for zone 5 etc?


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## CXRAndy (2 Jun 2020)

Hockeynut said:


> Done.
> 
> 
> As in use 180 that on the website as the FTHR for now? Like this?
> ...



Zones aren't precise, just a guide. Use the endurance numbers as a level for riding with. So just keep your hr mid 130bpm. 

This is Wattbikes version. percentage of functional threshold 

Training ZonePurposeAverage PowerZone 2Endurance*56-75%*Zone 3Tempo*76-90%*Zone 4Lactate Threshold*91-105%*Zone 5V02max106-120%


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## amasidlover (3 Jun 2020)

If your HR is showing as 160+ for at age 43 for most of a ride then the options are:

1) The device is wrong - optical HR on the wrist on the bike is about the least reliable use case so I suspect this may be the answer.

2) You are going 'full gas' for most of your ride...

3) You have some form of heart condition.

Although RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) is difficult for untrained athletes to get reliably correct, it is a useful way of double checking what your watch is saying.

Z1 = Normal breathing
Z2 = Breathing rate increases but still able to hold a conversational comfortably.
Z3 = Breathing quite fast and definite feeling of effort - able to say short sentences.
Z4 = Hard work to maintain for anything more than a few minutes - one word answers only.
Z5 = Really hard, chest on fire, unable to talk, possible nausea too

So I'd say most likely the device is wrong (you could rule out an undiagnosed heart condition by stopping when your watch shows Z5 and checking your pulse with your finger).

As for whether HR zone training is useful; then the vast, vast majority of coaches, serious athletes and peer reviewed evidence say it is - that doesn't mean you can't enjoy cycling and get fitter without it, but in terms of getting fitter in the shortest time or getting the fittest you can in a fixed time its a pretty good tool.


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## Phaeton (3 Jun 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Alternatively....
> Ditch all the zone stuff and associated mumbo-jumbo and focus on going in a bike ride.
> Pedal at a cadence that comes naturally.


This is the best advice given on this thread so far, 

Go out, enjoy yourself, brolacs to all this spinning at 85/90 that's once you're at a certain level, ride in a circle around your house about 10 miles & then as you feel more confident, turn right instead of left & go a bit further. Put the HR monitor back in the box, don't buy a cadence. If you want to see improvement just go around the same route & just monitor the time.


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## lane (3 Jun 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> British cycling use Functional threshold HR. I understand that to be a HR where you can work maximum effort for an hour
> 
> I punched in 3 different number over 6 bpm difference. The zones only varied 1 or 2 bpm. Not a great difference.



There might well be more than 6bpm difference between MHR and FT but agree zones are an approximation and can be near enough. But I think there would be more than 2bpm defference between MHR and FTHR. I have tested both mine and it was quite a big difference. It might be 17bpm difference which would mess the zones up.


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## HLaB (4 Jun 2020)

Hockeynut said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right section of the forum, please move if not. It's about me trying to get fitter through cycling.
> 
> I'm a 43 year old male, 86kg and 190cm tall (that's 13st 9lb and 6'3"), my Average Resting Heart rate gets recorded at ~60bpm (wearing vivoactive 3 long term). This is the year that I am would like to crack being able to go for rides of more than 10 miles, build up endurance, I want to go out for 2-3 hour rides for 30+ miles. I'm heading out with my friend each ride, which helps with motivation, one I notice that whenever we hit an incline, he gradually passes me, but he seems to power it in a high gear, where I'm spinning on a low gear because my legs can no longer push in a higher gear.
> 
> ...


Could be that your Max HR is set wrong. We are all different but as a 56kg, 175.5cm 44year old my Z4 is 164-177bpm, Z5 is 177bpm + and my max is 200bpm and resting hr average 46bpm (40bpm at lowest). It could also be that you are not fit enough yet but don't worry it'll come with more cycling. Also be aware that if the vioactive 3 if its exposed to moving air outside tends to read 5-10bpm too low.


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## Hockeynut (5 Jun 2020)

HLaB said:


> Could be that your Max HR is set wrong. We are all different but as a 56kg, 175.5cm 44year old my Z4 is 164-177bpm, Z5 is 177bpm + and my max is 200bpm and resting hr average 46bpm (40bpm at lowest). It could also be that you are not fit enough yet but don't worry it'll come with more cycling.


I think I'm more confused than ever about HR now. :$ I suspect I _am_ that unfit, time will tell. Overall I think I do need to try to go easier and build.


HLaB said:


> Also be aware that if the vivoactive 3 if its exposed to moving air outside tends to read 5-10bpm too low.


Today I have a HRM Strap arriving, so I'll see on my ride later.


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## Phaeton (5 Jun 2020)

You're overthinking it, you're going to spoil a great hobby by beating yourself up, forget all this brolacs, go out enjoy yourself, all you need to monitor if you desire is time & disatnce.


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## CXRAndy (5 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You're overthinking it, you're going to spoil a great hobby by beating yourself up, forget all this brolacs, go out enjoy yourself, all you need to monitor if you desire is time & disatnce.



The OP stated he wanted to crack on and improve this year. There are several ways to go about 'skinning the cat'.

He can just go out increase his ride times *and/or *add a few data points to assess his riding and analyse his ride after. 

Most of us like to review our efforts


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## Phaeton (5 Jun 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> The OP stated he wanted to crack on and improve this year. There are several ways to go about 'skinning the cat'.
> 
> He can just go out increase his ride times *and/or *add a few data points to assess his riding and analyse his ride after.
> 
> Most of us like to review our efforts


Agreed but the OP was asking how to get to rides above 10K not 100K or above 20mph all the 90rpm cadence is not required at this level, his heart rate unless he has a medical condition is irrelevant, he needs to just go out & ride, then sometime into the future all the other stuff will start to fall into place. If he goes out chasing 90rpm & 180bpm without gradual build up to it he's either likely to get disillusioned or carried away in a cardboard box


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jun 2020)

There are 3 markers I use to gauge whether am getting fitter and my endurance is improving and all you need is a watch....

1. Over my regular loop am I getting faster and/or does is it feel easier?

2. Hills, on regularly ridden hills which gear am I using for my natural cadence

3. What distance can I now comfortably cover on my weekly long ride without collapsing in a heap when I get back

Ok, it’s a bloody expensive watch, but cheaper makes are available.


As said, it’s easy to het caught-up in all this zones/hr mumbo-jumbo, but first you need to establish a reasonable baseline of fitness and endurance. Then the mumbo-jumbo might help fine-tune your performance. I think you have far to go until you reach that point.

Go ride, have fun, look at the scenery, stop reading about cycling....


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## Hockeynut (5 Jun 2020)

I do actually want to go out for a 20 mile ride at the moment, without busting a gut. Which I imagine involves increasing my fitness, aerobic and strength.

As it stands I can usually do 10, and recently managed a 15 mile ride. But during those 10 or 15 mile rides I'm out of breath very easily and my legs feel like they have little left to give. To the point of being light headed at times. I think I realised before, and the replies have helped, that despite that mileage not sounding like much to most, it probably is to me still. I assume that is why I'm feeling out of breath and legs like jelly. The fact I record most of my ride with a high HR (irrespective of zones being right or wrong) is probably just an indication that* I need to try to take it easier*. If I have a HR strap which helps me see my HE better and thus I can more easily try to keep myself in calmer territory. From what most of you have said too, this is likely to be more beneficial to increase my ability to ride overall and even my distance some. 

I'm hoping that I really start to enjoy things even more and that 20 miles might be only the beginning. Thanks everyone for your really helpful replies, I do understand all points of view. Whether I'm more confused or less about zones is a different matter!


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## lane (5 Jun 2020)

Hockeynut said:


> I think I'm more confused than ever about HR now. :$ I suspect I _am_ that unfit, time will tell. Overall I think I do need to try to go easier and build.
> 
> Today I have a HRM Strap arriving, so I'll see on my ride later.



Ride at least 3 days a week - four would be better but no more. Ride reasonably hard so you are putting some effort in and getting out of breath from time to time. Do 2 or 3 shorter slightly harder rides and one longer slower easier ride. You will gain fitness very quickly. You will notice a big difference within a couple of months guaranteed - you will be going quicker, hills won't seem so hard and rides you are doing now won't seem as long. You won't get any fitter any quicker worrying about your hart rate at this stage.


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jun 2020)

Hockeynut said:


> I do actually want to go out for a 20 mile ride at the moment, without busting a gut. Which I imagine involves increasing my fitness, aerobic and strength.
> 
> As it stands I can usually do 10, and recently managed a 15 mile ride. But during those 10 or 15 mile rides I'm out of breath very easily and my legs feel like they have little left to give. To the point of being light headed at times. I think I realised before, and the replies have helped, that despite that mileage not sounding like much to most, it probably is to me still. I assume that is why I'm feeling out of breath and legs like jelly. The fact I record most of my ride with a high HR (irrespective of zones being right or wrong) is probably just an indication that* I need to try to take it easier*. If I have a HR strap which helps me see my HE better and thus I can more easily try to keep myself in calmer territory. From what most of you have said too, this is likely to be more beneficial to increase my ability to ride overall and even my distance some.
> 
> I'm hoping that I really start to enjoy things even more and that 20 miles might be only the beginning. Thanks everyone for your really helpful replies, I do understand all points of view. Whether I'm more confused or less about zones is a different matter!


OK, sounds to me like a pace issue (assuming your bike doesn't have treacle in the wheel bearings).
Forget all the notions of time and distance, just go for a ride, but set-off nice and gently, a pace you can easily talk at without gasping and just carry-on like that for at least 20 mins, if you feel relaxed, either continue-on at that pace or just up it a little and continue a while, if you start breathing hard, go back to your previous pace. 10 mins before getting home, just slow right down again. For the time being don't ride to the point where you are getting short of breath. Relaxation is also key, tense muscles also need oxygen, so all but the essential parts of your body should be relaxed as you roll along.
The miles will come readily enough....


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## Tripster (30 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You're overthinking it, you're going to spoil a great hobby by beating yourself up, forget all this brolacs, go out enjoy yourself, all you need to monitor if you desire is time & disatnce.



Agree with this.When I started running again I saw some silly HR numbers on my Suunto watch which constantly said after runs I was in PTE zone 5 and should not do this often. 
I was running 5:21 min/km for 12-14k over hilly, rough offroad terrain last month, 45 year old, 13stone and good fitness. My max heart rate was 186 up a ridiculous hill and I had a heart rate chest strap....... scared the life out of me, spoiled my run. But straight after I could hold a conversation, sing to music playing in my headphones & I was feeling good. The rest of the run I was at 140-155 with occasional 155
I would pedal at a pace you feel relaxed, and good. Enjoy the scenery and enjoy the ride. Look at the stats after a coffee & cake and follow @Phaeton advice 👍


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## Colin Grigson (26 Jul 2020)

lane said:


> Ride at least 3 days a week - four would be better but no more. Ride reasonably hard so you are putting some effort in and getting out of breath from time to time. Do 2 or 3 shorter slightly harder rides and one longer slower easier ride. You will gain fitness very quickly. You will notice a big difference within a couple of months guaranteed - you will be going quicker, hills won't seem so hard and rides you are doing now won't seem as long. You won't get any fitter any quicker worrying about your hart rate at this stage.


That is exactly my experience over the last two months .... I don’t know what my heart rate is now whilst peddling but it’s considerably less than those first few outings


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## rogerzilla (26 Jul 2020)

CV fitness comes quite quickly but it takes about 3 years for the muscles to develop and you'll be flogging a small engine until then.


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## lane (26 Jul 2020)

That's interesting to know. I have done a lot more myself since covid. I can cycle faster at a lower HR than previously but my legs still ache after 100k.


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## CXRAndy (28 Jul 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> CV fitness comes quite quickly but it takes about 3 years for the muscles to develop and you'll be flogging a small engine until then.



Unless you're physically strong already 

I recently started weightlifting again. I found out I still had a good portion of strength from my youth, being able to front squat my own body weight. Cycling does require a degree endurance muscle type to get the best benefits


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