# Using clipless pedals for the first time



## markmcloughlin1 (17 Feb 2020)

So, I’ve finally taken the plunge and put some Look pedals on my road bike.
I gave them a five minute go today and I couldn’t even get the cleats to clip in.
Does anybody have any advice for a complete beginner to clipless pedals?


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## Spiderweb (17 Feb 2020)

Lots of videos if you google.

View: https://youtu.be/28IdOvbk7Us


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## vickster (17 Feb 2020)

Have you slackened the tension right off?

Might be some help in here https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/clipless-pedals-faq.74358/


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## Sharky (17 Feb 2020)

Some look pedals do seem a bit light and sometimes difficult getting the clip side of the pedal on top. Are they the type where you can adjust the spring tension? Can you practice on a turbo or stationery just holding onto a wall?

Might take longer than 5 min, especially mastering the stopping and unclipping. But it's worth it.

Make sure you are wearing gloves!


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## Spiderweb (17 Feb 2020)

Can you post a pick of your pedals and your cleats as they are fitted to your shoe.


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## markmcloughlin1 (17 Feb 2020)

Sharky said:


> Some look pedals do seem a bit light and sometimes difficult getting the clip side of the pedal on top. Are they the type where you can adjust the spring tension? Can you practice on a turbo or stationery just holding onto a wall?
> 
> Might take longer than 5 min, especially mastering the stopping and unclipping. But it's worth it.
> 
> Make sure you are wearing gloves!


I do have a turbo trainer - I’ll put the bike on it and give it a go. I’ll also try and slack the tension of the pedals off and go from there!


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Feb 2020)

Don't forget to post pictures of the bruises on your thighs and hips.


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## DCLane (17 Feb 2020)

My advice: when you first ride with them you won't remember to unclip.

So ... it's worth saying to yourself "unclip, unclip" before stopping. Otherwise you'll get there, stop and tumble over.

Not that I'd know anything about that  Oh no, I just decided to fall over in the middle of Holmfirth on a Saturday lunchtime for fun


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## wafter (17 Feb 2020)

Some good advice. From what I can remember when I was in your position (recently) - practice clipping / unclipping while sat on the bike and propped up against a convenient support (wall, work surface etc).

Make sure you're conscious that you're clipped in and remind yourself when slowing down to come to a stop as this is most likely where things will go amiss if you're not on the ball. Try to remain aware all the time you're riding though, as the occasion I've come closest to falling over through failure to unclip was during an emergency stop when my mind was obviously prioritising other stuff.

Good luck - tbh 18 months down the road and I'm not 100% convinced of their superiority and still get a bit of anxiety about being attached to the bike. Then again I get anxiety about getting out of bed in the morning, so I'm sure most are fine after a few months' acclimatisation


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Feb 2020)

I've never understood the mentality of using clipless. My old Raleigh tourer has one-sided pedals that were designed to be used with toeclips, which I removed immediately I got the bike. The pedals always come to rest upside down because of where the weight is in them, and it annoys the hell out of me just having to flick the things the right way up with my toes every time I put a foot down then go to start off again. The only reason I put up with them even minus the actual toeclips is they are original to the bike and still in good sound condition. If I ever bought a bike that had clipless pedals fitted they would be going straight in the bin before my first ride.
There seems to be some school of thought that you have to use clipless in order to be a "proper cyclist", and that riders who insist on using flats are merely "blokes who ride bikes". Much the same mentality also seems to apply with regard to riding in cycling-specific kit rather than casual clothing.


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## screenman (17 Feb 2020)

I never swim in a boiler suit, even though I could.


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## wafter (17 Feb 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've never understood the mentality of using clipless. My old Raleigh tourer has one-sided pedals that were designed to be used with toeclips, which I removed immediately I got the bike. The pedals always come to rest upside down because of where the weight is in them, and it annoys the hell out of me just having to flick the things the right way up with my toes every time I put a foot down then go to start off again. The only reason I put up with them even minus the actual toeclips is they are original to the bike and still in good sound condition. If I ever bought a bike that had clipless pedals fitted they would be going straight in the bin before my first ride.
> There seems to be some school of thought that you have to use clipless in order to be a "proper cyclist", and that riders who insist on using flats are merely "blokes who ride bikes". Much the same mentality also seems to apply with regard to riding in cycling-specific kit rather than casual clothing.


Tbh riding on flats does now feel less secure with less ability to drive the pedal forward as well as down, while I can maybe appreciate the arguments for keeping your feet in a constant, optimum position / in place on rough terrain. That said I can also appreciate an argument for being able to move your feet about to counter hot-spots and put your foot down quickly should things go amiss. I do feel more comfortable with toe cages than clipless, and reckon there's probably very little difference in performance between the two.

On balance I'd probably not want to be without mine for road-riding, however I my experiences certainly don't corroborate the many claims on the net of enormous gains in power transmission and speed as a result of making the switch..


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## raleighnut (17 Feb 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've never understood the mentality of using clipless. My old Raleigh tourer has one-sided pedals that were designed to be used with toeclips, which I removed immediately I got the bike. The pedals always come to rest upside down because of where the weight is in them, and it annoys the hell out of me just having to flick the things the right way up with my toes every time I put a foot down then go to start off again. The only reason I put up with them even minus the actual toeclips is they are original to the bike and still in good sound condition. If I ever bought a bike that had clipless pedals fitted they would be going straight in the bin before my first ride.
> There seems to be some school of thought that you have to use clipless in order to be a "proper cyclist", and that riders who insist on using flats are merely "blokes who ride bikes". Much the same mentality also seems to apply with regard to riding in cycling-specific kit rather than casual clothing.


You need to master the 'lift off' technique of getting pedals to flip over to the right side with a 'track' style single sided pedal, basically you lift your foot off at the bottom whilst pedalling then put it back on when the pedal is at the top, centrifugal force causes the heavier side to stay on the outside so by the time it gets to the top it is the right way up.

This works equally well with single sided 'clipless' pedals too.


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## vickster (17 Feb 2020)

wafter said:


> Tbh riding on flats does now feel less secure with less ability to drive the pedal forward as well as down, while I can maybe appreciate the arguments for keeping your feet in a constant, optimum position / in place on rough terrain. That said I can also appreciate an argument for being able to move your feet about to counter hot-spots and put your foot down quickly should things go amiss. I do feel more comfortable with toe cages than clipless, and reckon there's probably very little difference in performance between the two.
> 
> *On balance I'd probably not want to be without mine for road-riding, however I my experiences certainly don't corroborate the many claims on the net of enormous gains in power transmission and speed as a result of making the switch..*


Yes because those are utter bollox.

I'm having physio to try to get my knee to bend enough to be able to clip in again comfortably...I need at least 10 degrees, 20 would be perfect.
I'm ok on flats for short distances currently, but I'm meant to be doing a 100 in August and going that far with my heel or at best arch on the pedal is going to give me hip and ankle pain (all I can manage at present on the left side), while being clipped in will put my foot in a far better position. 
Nothing to do with being a proper cyclist  just a comfortable pain free one


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> Nothing to do with being a proper cyclist  just a comfortable pain free one



If you positioned your foot correctly on a flat pedal, you would have no more difficulty riding 100 miles on flats as you would with clipless. Clipless is not going to magically make any foot injury/problem go away. if you can't ride flats properly and be comfortable, clipless is going to be equally uncomfortable, if not more so because you will not be able to get any relief by shifting your feet around on the pedals.


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## vickster (17 Feb 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you positioned your foot correctly on a flat pedal, you would have no more difficulty riding 100 miles on flats as you would with clipless. Clipless is not going to magically make any foot injury/problem go away. if you can't ride flats properly and be comfortable, clipless is going to be equally uncomfortable, if not more so because you will not be able to get any relief by shifting your feet around on the pedals.


Ummm where do you place your foot on the pedal 'correctly'...and consider doing that if you can't bend your knee beyond 100 degrees.
I don't need to shift my feet around on the pedals. I never mentioned a foot injury 
When did you last ride 100 miles?


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## Sharky (17 Feb 2020)

wafter said:


> with toe cages than clipless, and reckon there's probably very little difference in performance between the two.


One of the differences is if you want them to be a firm connection for pulling up when hill climbing or sprinting, you get that straight away with clip less. But with clips, you have to bend down to tighten the straps and if too tight, stops blood circulation and you can get pins and needles in the feet. So with clips you have to keep tightening then loosening them during the ride and try that on a fixed.


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Feb 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've never understood the mentality of using clipless. My old Raleigh tourer has one-sided pedals that were designed to be used with toeclips, which I removed immediately I got the bike. The pedals always come to rest upside down because of where the weight is in them, and it annoys the hell out of me just having to flick the things the right way up with my toes every time I put a foot down then go to start off again. The only reason I put up with them even minus the actual toeclips is they are original to the bike and still in good sound condition. If I ever bought a bike that had clipless pedals fitted they would be going straight in the bin before my first ride.
> There seems to be some school of thought that you have to use clipless in order to be a "proper cyclist", and that riders who insist on using flats are merely "blokes who ride bikes". Much the same mentality also seems to apply with regard to riding in cycling-specific kit rather than casual clothing.


OK then, it is not for you.

There is no conspiracy or a school of thought by clipped riders to consider themselves proper cyclists.
Get off your high horse. And don't forget to unclip before swinging that leg over.


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## Dogtrousers (17 Feb 2020)

Spend half an hour or so riding slowly on grass (Could be difficult given the recent soggy weather) repeatedly clipping in and out. Challenge yourself how late you can leave it - only grass to fall onto. That's how I started with them. I've never had a "clipless moment"

Amusingly, autocorrect is insisting on clueless for clipless.


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## Gunk (17 Feb 2020)

I’ve used SPD pedals for years on my road bike, I’m not into the full Lycra look and I’m not a club cyclist, but I do find clipless pedals make a big difference on longer rides. You get used to them pretty quickly and it soon becomes second nature to release a foot when you’re coming to a stop. So do persevere with them, definitely worth it.


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## Racing roadkill (18 Feb 2020)

Learn how to fall off gracefully.


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## Racing roadkill (18 Feb 2020)

https://biketestreviews.com/correct-pedal-stroke-the-efficient-biomechanics-of-pedaling/
Here’s a nice piece about why you ( pretty much ) need bindings of some description to be able to pedal at maximum efficiency. Max efficiency isn’t a concern for everyone, but why would you want to waste energy needlessly?
To paraphrase. You need to reduce the time taken between the bottom dead centre, and top dead centre of the rotation, and that’s best achieved if your foot is bound to the pedal, because you can accelerate the foot ( pull up and round / through ) far more easily if it’s bound to the pedal. Here’s another good article.
http://www.ilovebicycling.com/training-perfect-pedaling-technique/


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## DCLane (18 Feb 2020)

Edited for you:



Racing roadkill said:


> Learn how to fall off stylishly.


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2020)

It is not obligatory to fall off in a 'clipless moment'. There are many of us who have never done it*
*Yet.


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## DCBassman (18 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> It is not obligatory to fall off in a 'clipless moment'. There are many of us who have never done it*
> *Yet.


Then surely it's a near-miss? I've always understood that the 'clipless moment' was the full production, hitting the ground still proudly attached! Anything less...


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## Sharky (18 Feb 2020)

Another reason why clipless systems are better than clips:
In the days before clipless, most cycling shoes had leather soles. The pedals used were "platform" type, which were basically smooth, without any grip, but had a ridge, in which the cleats or shoe plates would sit in. When tightened properly, you could not get your feet out.

To fix the shoe plates onto the leather soles, required a last and knocking in nails to fix them and there was no mistake for getting it wrong. No "float" with those cleats. To get the correct alignment, I used to ride a few miles in the shoes, before attaching the plates, to get an impression on the sole of the shoe. But even then once nailed on, you realised you'd got it slightly wrong and had to remove them and re nail them on.

In spite of all that if you look closely at my avatar pic, you will see that I am riding with toe straps and clips, but that morning, I had forgotten my cycling shoes and was riding with ordinary shoes! However, I did my 2nd fastest ever 25 that morning, so all theory is out of the window!


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2020)

DCBassman said:


> Then surely it's a near-miss? I've always understood that the 'clipless moment' was the full production, hitting the ground still proudly attached! Anything less...



I have fallen off for many reason, including comical ones such as going through a ford and getting a blow out, inattention causing me to ride off the road and multiple falls on ice, but I am yet to provide motorists with the mirth of seeing a lycra loony topple over at a set of traffic lights with their feet glued to pedals.


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## Yellow Saddle (18 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I have fallen off for many reason, including comical ones such as going through a ford and getting a blow out, inattention causing me to ride off the road and multiple falls on ice, but I am yet to provide motorists with the mirth of seeing a lycra loony topple over at a set of traffic lights with their feet glued to pedals.



You simply have not lived.

When it eventually does happen to you, remember it is customary to take a bow at the people in the cars behind you. 

I don't encourage an encore though, no matter how much they applaud.


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## DCBassman (18 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I have fallen off for many reason, including comical ones such as going through a ford and getting a blow out, inattention causing me to ride off the road and multiple falls on ice, but I am yet to provide motorists with the mirth of seeing a lycra loony topple over at a set of traffic lights with their feet glued to pedals.


Then I declare you officially free of 'clipless moments'.


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## raleighnut (18 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> I have fallen off for many reason, including comical ones such as going through a ford and getting a blow out, inattention causing me to ride off the road and multiple falls on ice, but I am yet to provide motorists with the mirth of seeing a lycra loony topple over at a set of traffic lights with their feet glued to pedals.


Have I mentioned I live across the road from a pub.


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## Milkfloat (18 Feb 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Have I mentioned I live across the road from a pub.


Must be a really wide road if you cycle there.


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## raleighnut (18 Feb 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> Must be a really wide road if you cycle there.


Aye It's set back a bit,


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## Gunk (18 Feb 2020)

Ooh, you can’t beat a flat roofed pub, two quid a pint and usually a decent cheap roast on a Sunday!


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## vickster (18 Feb 2020)

Gunk said:


> Ooh, you can’t beat a flat roofed pub, two quid a pint and usually a decent cheap roast on a Sunday!


And a bottling once in a while? (After £20 worth of pints?)


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## BigMeatball (18 Feb 2020)

I'm about to switch from flat to clipless pedals (amazon order delivered like 10 minutes ago) and I'm planning to do quite a bit of practice. First I'll use my spd shoes on the wattbike just to get used to the ankle twisting motion, then I'll go out of town, in the countryside to try it for real on my bike. Less cars, less people around, I can do all the practice I need in a more relaxed environment. And where nobody will be able to see me falling on my fat ass


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## CanucksTraveller (18 Feb 2020)

You can overthink these things, and you can definitely read too much about it. And then if you're a worrier, you selectively remember all the comedy stories you've seen, the tales of trouble, and you easily convince yourself this must be a fiendishly difficult thing to learn, or like Skipdiver you convince yourself it's something for the hard core / demented cyclist only. In 1985? Maybe. But really, they're pretty commonplace now, they're not just for the hard core, and they're easy. 

My wife only really started cycling at 38, unfit and overweight by her own admission, far, far from being a natural, and shaky on a bike to begin with. She went clipless early, within a couple of months. It took her a grand total of about 30 minutes or so of practice in the front room, propped against the wall. Her very first clipless ride (the next day) started with a tiny bit of nervousness, and a bit of fumbling to get the second foot in, then after that she enjoyed using them and wondered why so much is written about it. In her words, "they're like ski bindings really, but much easier".

Have a practice for a bit in benign surroundings by all means, but definitely don't overthink it. Just ride them.


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## Mo1959 (18 Feb 2020)

If I can manage, anyone can. I’m not blessed with the best balance or co-ordination. I swore I would stick with flats but now all the bikes apart from the mtb have spd,s on. I actually find flat pedals awkward now. Touch wood, no topples!


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## anothersam (18 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> http://www.ilovebicycling.com/training-perfect-pedaling-technique/
> 
> 
> > Pedaling the bicycle is what cycling is all about!



I object to the very first sentence – coasting is what it’s all about! Pedalling is a necessary evil.

Toeclips for me, even though I think they’re more likely to cause an off than clipless (and I don’t even cinch them tight).


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## 12boy (18 Feb 2020)

I've had quite few clipless moments, especially riding fixed, but now I disengage my right foot before I need to and sometimes both if riding on bumpy ice. I have 2 pair of the kind that are regular flat pedals on one side and clippers on the other for my favorite 2 bikes, so I can ride in bike shoes or Crocs or Sorel snow boots or flipflops as I wish. I use anti seize compound on the pedal threads so I can switch SPDs for flat pedals easily. My SPDs have held up well for many years, BTW. I am a grinder, not a spinner, and as such pull up as well as push down going up short steep hills. To open up another can of worms, I prefer stiff shoes to soft bendy ones and so my bike shoes have the SPD cleats attached. I recall the very light, very tight "italian" bike shoes with lead cleats and toe clips and don't miss those at all. We used to get them wet so they would stretch to fit and always reminded me of Chinese foot binding.


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## RoadRider400 (18 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> Yes because those are utter bollox.
> 
> I'm having physio to try to get my knee to bend enough to be able to clip in again comfortably...I need at least 10 degrees, 20 would be perfect.
> I'm ok on flats for short distances currently, but I'm meant to be doing a 100 in August and going that far with my heel or at best arch on the pedal is going to give me hip and ankle pain (all I can manage at present on the left side), *while being clipped in will put my foot in a far better position*.
> ...



What position can you achieve using clips that you cannot achieve with flat pedals?


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## BigMeatball (18 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> What position can you achieve using clips that you cannot achieve with flat pedals?



The one where you lay on the road on your side still clipped in


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## boydj (18 Feb 2020)

12boy said:


> I've had quite few clipless moments, especially riding fixed, but now I disengage my right foot before I need to and sometimes both if riding on bumpy ice. I have 2 pair of the kind that are regular flat pedals on one side and clippers on the other for my favorite 2 bikes, so I can ride in bike shoes or Crocs or Sorel snow boots or flipflops as I wish. I use anti seize compound on the pedal threads so I can switch SPDs for flat pedals easily. My SPDs have held up well for many years, BTW. I am a grinder, not a spinner, and as such pull up as well as push down going up short steep hills. To open up another can of worms, I prefer stiff shoes to soft bendy ones and so my bike shoes have the SPD cleats attached. I recall the very light, very tight "italian" bike shoes with lead cleats and toe clips and don't miss those at all. We used to get them wet so they would stretch to fit and always reminded me of Chinese foot binding.



Riding fixed without being clipped in is particularly difficult when you hit a downhill stretch, and you don't see track riders that are not clipped in.

I'd advise anybody thinking of going clipless to do it first with mtb pedals,since they tend to be a lot easier to get in and out of than road pedals, with the benefit of being able to walk when you get off the bike, and therefore better for a commute. The learning curve is higher with road clipless.


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## Sterlo (18 Feb 2020)

boydj said:


> Riding fixed without being clipped in is particularly difficult when you hit a downhill stretch, and you don't see track riders that are not clipped in.
> 
> I'd advise anybody thinking of going clipless to do it first with mtb pedals,since they tend to be a lot easier to get in and out of than road pedals, with the benefit of being able to walk when you get off the bike, and therefore better for a commute. The learning curve is higher with road clipless.


I'll second that. Went clipless early when I got back into cycling but didn't fancy road cleat as I like to be able to walk, so went MTB. Got the hang of unclipping quickly, only fell over twice, fortunately onto grass both times and nobody watching.


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## vickster (18 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> What position can you achieve using clips that you cannot achieve with flat pedals?


I can’t pedal with the front of my foot (ie ball of foot just behind toes) which is where clipless positions the foot (even with cleats as far back as possible). I don’t have the required flexion to turn the pedal without excruciating pain. On flats, I can position the pedal below my arch or heel as less flexion is needed. However, that then affects other joints like hip and ankle


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## vickster (18 Feb 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> The one where you lay on the road on your side still clipped in


Never done that


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## Racing roadkill (18 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> What position can you achieve using clips that you cannot achieve with flat pedals?








even if you didn’t have to contend with jolts from the road surface this would be very difficult / nigh on impossible with flat pedals.


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## RoadRider400 (18 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> I can’t pedal with the front of my foot (ie ball of foot just behind toes) which is where clipless positions the foot (even with cleats as far back as possible). I don’t have the required flexion to turn the pedal without excruciating pain. On flats, I can position the pedal below my arch or heel as less flexion is needed. However, that then affects other joints like hip and ankle


Sounds like a right conundrum. How are they going to resolve the flexion problem? I presume thats the root cause of all of this. I dont expect many people would do very well if they were forced into having a pedal contact point near the heel.


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## vickster (18 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Sounds like a right conundrum. How are they going to resolve the flexion problem? I presume thats the root cause of all of this. I dont expect many people would do very well if they were forced into having a pedal contact point near the heel.


Indeed. Partly it’s swelling due to the arthritis, pain due to the damage to the bone surfaces in all three compartments, partly due to muscle imbalance between quad, hamstring, calf. There may not be a solution, but giving the physio a go (compex sessions and gym work)

Gained nothing in terms of bend in 6 weeks though. I did manage 5 miles clipped in however a couple of weeks ago. 4 or 5 months ago I couldn’t even turn the pedals 5 times clipped in without excruciating pain!!
If it stays dry, I’ll give it another go with the cleats at the weekend


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## raleighnut (18 Feb 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> View attachment 505155
> 
> even if you didn’t have to contend with jolts from the road surface this would be very difficult / nigh on impossible with flat pedals.


Chain's slack


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## Racing roadkill (18 Feb 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Chain's slack


I think it’s to do with the stupid oval chainrings.


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## boydj (18 Feb 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> The one where you lay on the road on your side still clipped in



Done that a couple of times. The only clipless moment I've had was in queuing traffic where the car in front started off and then stopped again almost immediately, for no apparent reason. I'd just clipped in and didn't have time to clip out. The other time was when I hit a patch of ice on a roundabout and was on my ***e before I knew it, still clipped in. In both instances it took a moment or two to get untangled and get enough leverage to free a foot. 

On the other hand, there have been a few occasions over the years where I've come out of the other end of an incident still upright, with one or both feet on the ground and no idea how I managed to unclip.


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## Sharky (18 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> What position can you achieve using clips that you cannot achieve with flat pedals?


Try cornering on a trike with your weight over the inside wheel, 1 ft away from the cross bar and the outside foot firmly attached to the pedal to stop you hitting the ground. Try that with flats.


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## slowmotion (18 Feb 2020)

I found this clip useful for setting up the cleat position.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2BXOkM-wHs

Even though I practiced for a while just leaning against a wall, I came unstuck within five minutes of going out for the first time, the bike firmly attached to my feet with my body horizontal on the tarmac. You just have to have a sense of humour while you learn to anticipate the circumstances that can cause your downfall.

Edit: Watch out for re-clipping in by mistake!


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## Seevio (18 Feb 2020)

When using clipless make sure your shoes are of sufficient quality that the clips dont move in the sole. It's not A Good Thing (tm) when you pull up, twist your foot and nothing happens. Thankfully, in my case, panic induced brute force saved me on those occasions. 

That said, I prefer clipless and if I could reasonably buy spd Doctor Marten boots, I would have clipless on all my bikes.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Feb 2020)

There is of course the other kind of clipless problem when you don't do the bolts tight enough, the cleat shifts and the shoe becomes jammed. Happened to me once. I ended up walking through a railway station wearing one shoe, wheeling my bike to which the other was firmly attached.


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## markmcloughlin1 (18 Feb 2020)

Update:
I did it!
Give them a test run whilst I was on the turbo trainer then went on the roads today, took me a while getting used to getting the left foot to clip in but I got there in the end, but unsteady on traffic lights still- I think it’s more of a panic. It’s a new world!


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## 12boy (19 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> Indeed. Partly it’s swelling due to the arthritis, pain due to the damage to the bone surfaces in all three compartments, partly due to muscle imbalance between quad, hamstring, calf. There may not be a solution, but giving the physio a go (compex sessions and gym work)
> 
> Gained nothing in terms of bend in 6 weeks though. I did manage 5 miles clipped in however a couple of weeks ago. 4 or 5 months ago I couldn’t even turn the pedals 5 times clipped in without excruciating pain!!
> If it stays dry, I’ll give it another go with the cleats at the weekend


Have you ever considered getting Rolfed? It is a deep massage system which looks to free movement by manipulating the tendons ad ligaments which control movement, to oversimplify. It won't repair arthritic joints, it costs a lot and it can be excruciating, but in my case, it worked to create stretch and flexibility I really needed. It might well address your muscle issues. Don't know if you this flavor of t torture available there, but it might help if you do.


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

12boy said:


> Have you ever considered getting Rolfed? It is a deep massage system which looks to free movement by manipulating the tendons ad ligaments which control movement, to oversimplify. It won't repair arthritic joints, it costs a lot and it can be excruciating, but in my case, it worked to create stretch and flexibility I really needed. It might well address your muscle issues. Don't know if you this flavor of t torture available there, but it might help if you do.


Never heard of it. I have had a couple of deeply uncomfortable sports massages since starting the physio though!
The real issue unfortunately is nothing can repair extensively arthritic joints, at least not yet, only little bits and even then it's hit and miss


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## antnee (19 Feb 2020)

I can second the above reply as have ridden both clipped and flat with a bad knee for the last three years I get by when not riding by doing leg and knee strengthening exercises that the physio gave after many trips of 100+ miles one of my knees gave out. But thats another saga As to Look pedals I invested in a carbon pair last year and admittedly it took a little time to get use them but I had been used to SPD type double sided type which where easy to clip in and out of though the SPD SL clipless does take a little practice but I personally ok to pedal with though I did loosen the tension off to start with but as I got use to them tightened them up agian and wouldn't be without them now.


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## antnee (19 Feb 2020)

Well if you have arthritic joints, And of course in the knees is for a cyclist one of the worst places but you can just try and lower your sights I'm afraid as I had to after my injury as being 72 I don't seem the have energy I did even three years ago before my knee


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

antnee said:


> Well if you have arthritic joints, And of course in the knees is for a cyclist one of the worst places but you can just try and lower your sights I'm afraid as I had to after my injury as being 72 I don't seem the have energy I did even three years ago before my knee


I’m only 47 so not quite ready to quit


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## antnee (19 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> I’m only 47 so not quite ready to quit


Well neither am I just yet


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

antnee said:


> Well neither am I just yet


Well no...I’m not really lowering my sights wanting to clip in for one long ride (which I already deferred from last year due to knee as I was only 6 months post clean up)


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## RoubaixCube (19 Feb 2020)

Dont know if its been mentioned yet - but if your cleats are of the SPD variety - you can get some called SH-56 which are slightly different compared to the standard SH-51 or 52 cleat. They function exactly the same but the difference being that if you yank your foot up vertically hard enough when youre about to fall, the cleat will disengage from the pedal without needing a twist from your ankle.

I have used them for a long time and they have saved my butt a fair few times when commuting.

-- If i had to throw in a tip. Try to look ahead and unclip your standing foot from the pedal early before you come to a complete stop. It takes all the fear and panic out of not being able to unclip at the right moment. Im confident in my clipping in and out but i also clip out early.


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

RoubaixCube said:


> Dont know if its been mentioned yet - but if your cleats are of the SPD variety - you can get some called SH-56 which are slightly different compared to the standard SH-51 or 52 cleat. They function exactly the same but the difference being that if you yank your foot up vertically hard enough when youre about to fall, the cleat will disengage from the pedal without needing a twist from your ankle.
> 
> I have used them for a long time and they have saved my butt a fair few times when commuting.


OP mentions Look so this isn’t relevant in this case


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## Dogtrousers (19 Feb 2020)

RoubaixCube said:


> Dont know if its been mentioned yet - but if your cleats are of the SPD variety - you can get some called SH-56 which are slightly different compared to the standard SH-51 or 52 cleat. They function exactly the same but the difference being that if you yank your foot up vertically hard enough when youre about to fall, the cleat will disengage from the pedal without needing a twist from your ankle.
> 
> I have used them for a long time and they have saved my butt a fair few times when commuting.


On a similar note, I have a pair of pedals called "Click-R". I think these may be for use with the cleats you mention. Anyway they are easier release. In practice I find them identical to ordinary SPDs except they feel slightly "squashy" - less of a positive click - when clipping in. They're currently on a bike I don't ride much but I've been perfectly happy with them. I bought them because they had built in reflectors, they just happen to be this click-r system.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/technologies/component/details/shimano-clickr.html


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## kingrollo (19 Feb 2020)

markmcloughlin1 said:


> So, I’ve finally taken the plunge and put some Look pedals on my road bike.
> I gave them a five minute go today and I couldn’t even get the cleats to clip in.
> Does anybody have any advice for a complete beginner to clipless pedals?



Which system did you go for ? - The last 2 sets of SPD/SL pedals have gone back - they just wouldn't release and I have been using SPD/SL for a few years now.

What you need to do is dedicate some time to clicking in and out - on a 25 mile ride you might unclick 3 or 4 times. Just roll down a road and click in / click out - also practice a bit of one legged pedalling. I found practising on a turbo of limited use - the technique seems different on road..


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Which system did you go for ? - The last 2 sets of SPD/SL pedals have gone back - they just wouldn't release and I have been using SPD/SL for a few years now.
> 
> What you need to do is dedicate some time to clicking in and out - on a 25 mile ride you might unclick 3 or 4 times. Just roll down a road and click in / click out - also practice a bit of one legged pedalling. I found practising on a turbo of limited use - the technique seems different on road..


He says Look in what you’ve quoted


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## DRM (19 Feb 2020)

With Look/Shimano SPD-SL road pedals it’s a bit harder to get to grips with clipping in and out than SPD mtb types, you basically have to catch the top of the pedal with your shoe toe then slide your foot along till the front of the cleat engages with the front of the pedal, then press down until the rear of the cleat clicks into position, you will probably find yourself looking down at your feet at first, as your foot slides hopelessly across the pedal and off the front of the pedal, hopefully this video explains a bit better. 
View: https://youtu.be/H6h30OqTyTg


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## kingrollo (19 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> He says Look in what you’ve quoted the


So he does - What a doughnut I am !!!!


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

kingrollo said:


> So he does - What a doughnut I am !!!!


You’re not alone... @RoubaixCube


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## RoadRider400 (19 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> Indeed. Partly it’s swelling due to the arthritis, pain due to the damage to the bone surfaces in all three compartments, partly due to muscle imbalance between quad, hamstring, calf. There may not be a solution, but giving the physio a go (compex sessions and gym work)
> 
> Gained nothing in terms of bend in 6 weeks though. I did manage 5 miles clipped in however a couple of weeks ago. 4 or 5 months ago I couldn’t even turn the pedals 5 times clipped in without excruciating pain!!
> If it stays dry, I’ll give it another go with the cleats at the weekend



Ever tried trigger point therapy on the muscle? Been really good for me over the years on numerous injuries. Can be self learned so doesnt even need to cost anything.


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## vickster (19 Feb 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Ever tried trigger point therapy on the muscle? Been really good for me over the years on numerous injuries. Can be self learned so doesnt even need to cost anything.


I’ve had done by massage therapist and physio. Doesn’t have long lasting effect


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## 12boy (20 Feb 2020)

vickster said:


> I’ve had done by massage therapist and physio. Doesn’t have long lasting effect


I surely hope you can find a way to cycle enjoyable as far and as often as you like. Have noticed any weather sensitivity to cold and damp?


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## vickster (20 Feb 2020)

12boy said:


> I surely hope you can find a way to cycle enjoyable as far and as often as you like. Have noticed any weather sensitivity to cold and damp?


Not especially knee or joint wise. Probably worse in summer oddly when more active


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## 12boy (21 Feb 2020)

I've never noticed it myself but I've sure heard from others that even old injuries are worse with cold damp weather. Thought a trip to sunny Spain or Morocco would be justifiable were that true for you.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Feb 2020)

12boy said:


> I've never noticed it myself but I've sure heard from others that even old injuries are worse with cold damp weather. Thought a trip to sunny Spain or Morocco would be justifiable were that true for you.


It's the atmospheric pressure I believe*. Joints being sealed(ish) capsules they react to changes in pressure.

I read a piece by a knee specialist who said he could judge his workload by looking at the weather forecast because of this.

* Before anyone starts, my definitive source for this is "I read it somewhere". I could well be wrong. I am, after all, an idiot.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2020)

12boy said:


> I've never noticed it myself but I've sure heard from others that even old injuries are worse with cold damp weather. Thought a trip to sunny Spain or Morocco would be justifiable were that true for you.


I'm busy working, but I've a week in Florida and two in Canada in May 
I've had the problem with the knee for 10 years, it's not seasonal


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## Mike Ayling (22 Feb 2020)

Anyone who claims not to have failed to unclip and fall at least once during the training phase has my nomination for bulltish artist of the week!

Mike


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## ianrauk (22 Feb 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Anyone who claims not to have failed to unclip and fall at least once during the training phase has my nomination for bulltish artist of the week!
> 
> Mike


That's Bullcrap right there. Plenty of people have never had a 'clipless moment'. I know plenty who haven't and plenty who have. 
Some people take to it better then others. Simple as that.


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## Mo1959 (22 Feb 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Anyone who claims not to have failed to unclip and fall at least once during the training phase has my nomination for bulltish artist of the week!
> 
> Mike


I have never fallen. Had a couple of near misses with unexpected stops, but using multi release on a relaxed setting my massive yank freed them. Wait you see, I will do it on the next ride now.


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## Dogtrousers (22 Feb 2020)

Me neither


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## freiston (22 Feb 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Anyone who claims not to have failed to unclip and fall at least once during the training phase has my nomination for bulltish artist of the week!
> 
> Mike


Never in the "training phase". I started with clips and straps (many years ago before clipless) and had one fall due to failure to unclip and it was a long time after experience was enough to have let me know better. I was attempting a "track stand" at a pelicon crossing - just as the lights changed, I went over. I've had other low speed falls since but I don't consider them due to failure to unclip even though not unclipping probably exacerbated the problem.

At least with clipless, you don't need to get your hand down to the strap to release it.


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## johnnyb47 (8 May 2020)

Just been redirected to this thread by @And.
I brilliant help thanks👍


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## TheCyclingRooster (9 May 2020)

Hi again all. I am now all of 74 years and 8 months young and still ride Marcel Berthet Lyotard Platform Pedals with Christophe toe clips and Christophe leather straps as did I during the 1960's when I rode my 19.5" 1937 Hetchins Vibrant 'Brilliant' Track Frame 
I tried clip-less pedals and my personal preference were the Look PP 206 with the Red cleats albeit that was only for a very very short spell during the Summer months some 12 years ago when I reverted back to my days of fixed wheel with my 50 cm Fuji track frame which I had built up from a brand new naked frame.
After about a year I changed the Fuji over to a Flat-bar Hybrid and later sold it on complete with both sets of bars/levers & cables to a chap that lived in in Lytham Saint Annes that was taking part in a charity ride












The Look pedals like the Marcel Berthet Platform Pedals were just so easy for getting into and being secure when the straps are pulled tight;I found that the leather QR straps after a trip or two in the rain would hold my feet very securely but in an emergency I could release with a quick twist and upward yank and yet they would still retain my feet during normal riding.


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## johnnyb47 (9 May 2020)

Great photos there, and a brilliant read to go with them. 👍


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## TheCyclingRooster (9 May 2020)

Thank you jb47. My avatar image is the only bike that I still have having very very reluctantly sold my 50 cm Steve Goff again built up from a naked rescued frame that was fully refurbished in Poly-chromatic Blue by C&G Finishes,Liverpool.
I have been experiencing arthritic shoulder pain in my right shoulder when riding on dropped bars so I had a difficult decision to take.

Both bikes were kitted-out with 10 spd Campagnolo and Mavic Aksium rims with Mavic Aksium Cartridge hubs.


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## BigMeatball (9 May 2020)

What's a 'training phase' in the first place? You mean cycling round the block for 2 minutes when you first try to clip in, clip out, stop?


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## johnnyb47 (9 May 2020)

Hi again.
I took the plunge today and bought some Shimano PD-M520 spd peddles for around £24 from Halfords.
I've just finished fitting them,but will no doubt need a little tweaking to get just right. Looking at them and weighing them up, they look quite menacing and torturous things (I hope I'm mistaken)
There's 12 clicks on the tensioner so ive set them all at around 5 clicks from the weakest side. I hope that's about right for a compete novice. It's clouded over quite heavily here at the moment and looks like rain, so tonight I'll practice clipping and unclipping in the kitchen before my maiden ride tomorrow. Wish me luck 🍀👍👍


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## johnnyb47 (9 May 2020)

Just messing around and they seem ok to use. I made a mistake of putting the cleat to far back resulting in my toe area fouling the front wheel. That's all sorted now. I would go out for a ride but there's thunder and lightning outside as we speak


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## vickster (9 May 2020)

Turn the whole way to the loosest before you go out the first time! 5 is far too tight for a beginner and totally unnecessary on the road

and they're pedals!!!


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## TheCyclingRooster (9 May 2020)

Hi again jb47. The Shimano PD-M250 was the very first clip-less system that I bought and tried along with a pair of Shimano shoes - an utter disaster and so so fiddly to connect with. 
That was what prompted me to try a pair of Look PP 206;the difference was amazing and very reminiscent of my trusty old Marcel Berthet Lyotard Platform pedals when it came to a rapid connection.


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## johnnyb47 (9 May 2020)

Thanks @vickster..I'll do exactly as you say..


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## Gunk (9 May 2020)

Mine have been on the loosest setting for years, my foot has never popped out accidentally so why have them any tighter.


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## johnnyb47 (9 May 2020)

Thanks for the great advice. Trying them out on setting 5 seems ok, but that's just me messing around with them in the kitchen..In the real world they will no doubt be different, so I'll take on board your advice and adjust them to there slackest position 👍


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## vickster (9 May 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> Thanks for the great advice. Trying them out on setting 5 seems ok, but that's just me messing around with them in the kitchen..In the real world they will no doubt be different, so I'll take on board your advice and adjust them to there slackest position 👍


Have them loose, there’ll be many times yiu need to unclip in a hurry!
also make sure the cleat bolts are very tight and tighten after every ride to start with. Losing a bolt or having a loose one while clipped in means you may not be able to unclip and you’ll end up on the deck (Damhikt )


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## HLaB (10 May 2020)

I run them so my dominant leg/foot (right in my case) is a wee bit tighter than the foot I unclip first (the left for me) which is set pretty loose. In that way I can pedal away confidently with just one foot clipped in until I feel comfortable to clip the other in.


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