# Gumtree "Offers"



## steveindenmark (5 Jun 2015)

As I am in Denmark I have never bothered looking at Gumtree. But as I have been actively seeking a Brompton over the past few weeks I thought I would give it a go. I have bought motorbikes from the UK in the past without any problems and that is down to having a good judge of people and asking all the right questions and weighing up the answers.

After looking through hundreds of ads over the years you get a feel for what is right and what is not. There is a site in Germany called Mobile.de which deals with motorbikes. Jannie has suggested I go and get a job with them as I can spot "Wrong Uns" from miles away. Its the same with Craig Lists.

So I have now had a chance to get the swing of Gumtree.

Now call me Mr Suspicious if you will but if I am ever bought an "Unwanted Gift", it is usually a book or something for the kitchen and is worth £15 or less. Never in my wildest dreams have I ever been bought a brand new 6 geared Brompton. worth a little over a grand. But if you believe what you read in Gumtree, this is a regular occurence. Especially if you live in London. They are willing to let these bikes go for about £800, which is a bit too tempting to resist.

I like to test my theory out and so I have contacted a few of these people. They all want paying in cash, not Paypal or bank transfers. They are quite guarded and not open and flowing as you would expect if you wanted to sell a high value item. They all have mobile numbers in their ads and not land lines, but that could be a Gumtree policy. They will only use Gumtree e mails and will not give out their private e mails, even when you are on the edge of making a deal. Gumtree will not allow you to send e mail addresses through their text box but changing @ to AT gets round that problem.

I let this go on for as long as possible but to me it soon becomes obvious if it is a scam. I always ask for more photos to be sent but this is easy to cheat on. All the seller does is lift copies of say a Blue Brompton off the internet and uses them. When I am buying bikes or motorbikes I always ask for a photo which is unusual but simple. I will ask for a photo of the bike with a cup or newspaper or tea spoon on the seat. At this point the bogus sellers stop contacting you and the genuine sellers think you are nuts but send the photo anyway.

Using this method I can tell you that there are plenty of bogus sellers selling Bromptons on Gumtree.

Here are a couple of my tips for buying on sites. I would like to hear yours:

Read the sites own security policy....we never do that.

Dont ever send money by Western Union....someone must do, they are still in business.

Dont let your desire for something cloud your judgement....I want...I want...I want

Ask for that unusual photo...At least then you know the seller may be a crook but at least he has got the article he is supposed to be selling.

If you cannot see the article you want before buying it get someone to see it for you. I have bought 4 Moto Guzzis from the UK. I asked Moto Guzzi Club members who I had never met, to go and look at the bikes for me before I made an offer. This forum has members all over the country.

If it feels wrong, abandon ship.

If you are in any doubt, however slight. Do not turn up at an address or pre determined place with a wad full of cash. Leave the cash in the car or whatever and go and meet them without the cash first to weigh them up.

Here are 2 personal instances.

When I was a police officer in Hull I dealt with an instance where a man had seen a car online and agreed to have it without seeing it or the seller first. He arranged to pay by cash and to call at the sellers flat on a time and date and from there they would go and get the car. On the landing to the flats he was jumped on and robbed of the cash. I couldnt prove the seller was involved but everything pointed to it.

The second one was where a collegue arranged to buy a car in Amsterdam. He drove down from Denmark with a friend and arranged to meet the seller on a car park in the centre of Amsterdam. When they got there they were jumped on by a group of Eastern Europeans, who not only stole the money they had taken for the car but also the car they travelled down in. Neither has been recovered.

So it does happen.

These are some of the rules I follow. But looking at Gumtree, there are some dodgy boilers out there.


----------



## Drago (5 Jun 2015)

I always take a couple of large gentlemen with me when there is any doubt over the legitimacy of such a transaction. Both gents are larger than myself, one is known as The Swede. If any little boys from Eastern Europe want to try it on, then that's their problem.

Peace through superior firepower!


----------



## raleighnut (5 Jun 2015)

In London I'd say a Brompton is more likely to have been stolen.


----------



## CopperBrompton (6 Jun 2015)

Always ask for the sales receipt, and check that the frame number matches. Ask to see ID. Ask them to meet you outside a police station to conduct the transaction.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (6 Jun 2015)

Gumtree already has a reputation over here Steve as being a bit dodgy, I was v interested in a Dahon folder a while back but the bargain price and inconsistencies got a bit too much to feel safe following up. 

You might like to look at Preloved also, much the same thing but less popular. 

Good advice and I do like the teaspoon on the saddle idea, I'll be using that next rime I'm tempted online. Thanks


----------



## threebikesmcginty (7 Jun 2015)

Everything that's for sale in London is stolen.


----------



## crazyjoe101 (7 Jun 2015)

I was searching for a used bike in London and at least half of the possible choices on Gumtree were stolen. There were about 4 nice road bikes registered to one mobile number all with different stories which didn't match up - these people don't even try. Some people you text a technical question about the frame and you get no reply because they're a thief and not a cyclist, it's so easy to spot these guys.


----------



## Pale Rider (7 Jun 2015)

Don't buy from Gumtree.


----------



## Onyer (8 Jun 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Don't buy from Gumtree.


I've sold a couple of bikes through Gumtree. Not all of us are crooks. But the advice from Steve is very good and well worth taking.


----------



## steveindenmark (8 Jun 2015)

Just a couple of things.

All my bikes were bought new and apart from my Koga World traveller I have no idea where the receipts are. Most people who buy 2nd hand bikes will not have an original sales receipt. But it does not make the seller a crook.

CrazyJoe. If you ask me technical questions about my frame I would have no idea. I'm just a cyclist who has no clue about technical things on a bike. But I'm not a crook. I am also wondering how you knew half of the choices on Gumtree were stolen? I am thinking that is supposition and not fact.

As for everything for sale in London is stolen. Whatever!!!

I understand their is a Brompton stolen register at the Brompton company. Does anyone know how to access it and how long it takes?


----------



## Falco Frank (8 Jun 2015)

Interesting. I like the teaspoon on seat photo as well, very good.

Oddly, I bought my recumbent via Gumtree but only after several photos and long emails had taken place.

To paraphrase what has been said, These days, if it looks too good to be true - it probably is!


----------



## Falco Frank (8 Jun 2015)

Found elsewhere:

"Brompton keep a list of all serial numbers - I know I registered mine with them when I bought mine - so they may know the registered owner...

The buyer has to register the bike -- Brompton have no way of knowing who buys their bikes from bike shops. I phoned Brompton and left a message with the frame number, but they have not returned the call, so I guess the buyer did not register it."


----------



## jnrmczip (8 Jun 2015)

if purchasing something I always ask to collect from buyers house that way I know were they stay if they try to rip me off also maybe worth while to screen shot conversations or printing them out and also the add itself as evidence of where you bought the item so if you are selling on you can prove where you got it. or if anything is questioned you can prove where you got it from


----------



## crazyjoe101 (8 Jun 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Just a couple of things.
> 
> All my bikes were bought new and apart from my Koga World traveller I have no idea where the receipts are. Most people who buy 2nd hand bikes will not have an original sales receipt. But it does not make the seller a crook.
> 
> ...



When I say "technical" I didn't really mean much beyond weight and stiffness and questions about wear or damage, things that a cyclist would be able to comment on, even if it was just to say "not sure", I can't see a situation where someone who is attempting to sell a bike which has not been stolen is unwilling to even respond to a text with basic questions about the bike.

I decided that the bikes were stolen solely on my own interpretation of what I could see at the time, I can't be entirely sure. At the time I was looking, there were 3 bikes registered to one mobile number all with mis-matched reasons for sale, and another 2 to another mobile with stories which didn't match up, there were about 3 sellers who didn't respond at all to questions about the bike's usage, which whilst not an indication of any wrongdoing, seems a little bit strange for someone trying to sell a bike which belongs to them and they have ridden. The other half of the ads looked alright at a glance.

Let me also say, I am in no way suggesting that everything on there is stolen or that my brief experience is representative of the place. I was only looking at a specific selection of bikes over a couple of days, so I don't really have enough experience of Gumtree to make such a sweeping statement, but based on my experience, there seems to be a larger amount of stolen bikes than on other popular selling platforms.


----------



## roundthebendbromcycle (8 Jun 2015)

Useful advice there, with something as expensive as a brompton why would you NOT register it, I did, mind you it is rarely out of sight, I always kept it under my bench at work, growled at anyone that touched it.
Good to see the detective thinking process at work, useful. I would use a fork as everyone seems to like the spoon idea so they will be all over google images soon.


----------



## steveindenmark (9 Jun 2015)

When I suggested a tea spoon I really meant any household item that you wouldn't find on a bike seat 

When I see a host of odd items appearing on the seat of bikes on e bay, I will know I started the movement. We can even have a variation. Ask for the bike to be photographed next to a statue or a bus stop. But not a red phone box. You see lots of Bromptons in front of red phone boxes on Gumtree and e bay.

For example:


----------



## Poacher (9 Jun 2015)

As well as the frame number which is stamped on the flat part of the rear hinge, each Brompton has a durable sticker applied to the back of the seat tube at point of sale.
This bears a serial number and bar code, and constitutes the guarantee; if it's removed for any reason (usually a nefarious one!) the sticky residue which is left reads "VOID".
Ask to see a photo of the serial number sticker, if it's not clearly shown on the Gumtree/Ebay/whatever photo(s). If there's no sticker, don't touch the deal with a barge pole, as it's almost certain to be a wrong 'un. The original dealer will have made absolutely clear that the sticker should not be removed under any circumstances - and there's no good reason to do so.


----------



## roundthebendbromcycle (10 Jun 2015)

Hmmm ...red phone boxes eh, could be a secret code used by the organisation that steals the bromptons, I haven't seen a red phone box for ages, perhaps the gang thats stealing the bikes is stealing the phone boxes as well, think were onto something here. 
great idea asking to photograph the sticker, didn't know I had one, just went for a peek....although it would be nicer to have odd items balancing on saddles on gumtree


----------



## Kell (19 Jun 2015)

I'd echo that Gumtree does seem to be developing a reputation for stolen goods - or dodgy people.

Friends of mine got scammed when they were selling their sofas via Gumtree. I'd normally say they were intelligent people but they fell for the old 'courier' trick.

The buyer claimed to want to send them to somewhere else, transferred money into their paypal account and asked them to pay the courier direct. Lo and behold, as soon as they'd paid the courier, the money that was transferred into their account turned out to not actually be there. They were £300 out of pocket.


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Jun 2015)

Never ever buy anything on gumtree without conducting the transaction in person, you have zero protection.


----------



## TheDoctor (21 Jun 2015)

I know someone who had an entirely successful Gumtree transaction.
He successfully retrieved his stolen bike by showing up at the advertisers place with his biggest friend...


----------

