# What is VAM



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Hi guys and girls.
Can someone please explain this to me? Never heard of it before. Did a Cat 3 yesterday and had a VAM of 1083. 
Rode tempo first half of it and basically just survived for the 28%+ bits. Painful hill no matter what speed though lol recovery ride today! Mr super duper legs has met his match


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

It is some rating of effort on a hill calculated by Strava. It is explained somewhere on the site.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Ah I see! Cheers mate. Now does anyone know, if having a vam on one cat3 can be converted to seewhat could be done on a different cat4 climb? Or is the vam of boh hills able to be directly compared regardless of hill?


----------



## Rob3rt (24 May 2014)

VAM is vertical speed given in metres per hour.


----------



## Asa Post (24 May 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Ah I see! Cheers mate. Now does anyone know, if having a vam on one cat3 can be converted to seewhat could be done on a different cat4 climb? Or is the vam of boh hills able to be directly compared regardless of hill?


For the basics of VAM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAM_(bicycling)
For playing about with it:http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/VAM.aspx


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Asa Post said:


> For the basics of VAM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAM_(bicycling)
> For playing about with it:http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/VAM.aspx


Awesome link thanks! Job done.

@Rob3rt what's the highest jump in vam you have seen in 4 weeks? What would you class as a big jump in any time frame-200 400 Vam, I don't know.

And what's an average vam and a good one? Or watts:kilo. That link posted converts to that. Using the same model to convert with I could have a stable idea. 3.52 watt:kilo for 11 minutes


----------



## Rob3rt (24 May 2014)

That is like asking what a good average speed is really. It depends on loads of things. I never pay any attention to it tbh.


----------



## montage (24 May 2014)

All in all, it means nothing


On a similar note, power estimated / guessed means nothing as well


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> That is like asking what a good average speed is really. It depends on loads of things. I never pay any attention to it tbh.


You track improvement with time up climb?


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

Conditions could have a huge effect on VAM calculated by Strava, same applies to their wattage calculations . The best way to accurately calculate your improvements is via a power meter. Unfortunately they cost quite a bit.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Hacienda71 post: 8673 said:


> Conditions could have a huge effect on VAM calculated by Strava, same applies to their wattage calculations . The best way to accurately calculate your improvements is via a power meter. Unfortunately they cost quite a bit.


What are your recommendations? Time works. However conditions could have a huge effect on time too... Lol vam looks good because its a huge number.

And the minute I go up a hill and don't feel pain (ie improvement) faster. The world turns to a shoot storm with 10pages of hate. Lol


----------



## Rob3rt (24 May 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> You track improvement with time up climb?



I track progress using power over various durations or relative race positions.

But afaik VAM is no better than tracking time up a climb.


----------



## 400bhp (24 May 2014)

I can't be arsed to look, but given the description by Rob, I suspect the formula is a quadratic with gradient being squared. Hence the steeper gradients have a greater impact on VAM than your speed.


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

I know you didn't like Jowwys suggestion, but a 10 mile tt is good at showing progression. No where to hide, and you get to look at the improvement relative to others as well as times. So if conditions vary you still have another result to consider. You get to ride the same course every week. The closest tt course to me has races on it twice a week. I ride it on my road bike.
We are quite lucky with hill climbs in the North West with a couple of climbs that are used by a number of clubs so you get multiple chances to ride the same hc course in the same season in a competitive scenario.
The best way of tracking progress is power though.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

400bhp said:


> I can't be arsed to look, but given the description by Rob, I suspect the formula is a quadratic with gradient being squareed.


Yeah probably not worth being arsed checking. Are you using power as well? If not, then what?
@Rob3rt cheers.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> I know you didn't like Jowwys suggestion, but a 10 mile tt is good at showing progression. No where to hide, and you get to look at the improvement relative to others as well as times. So if conditions vary you still have another result to consider. You get to ride the same course every week. The closest tt course to me has races on it twice
> We are quite lucky with hill climbs in the North West with a couple of climbs that are used by a number of cl
> The best way of tracking progress is power though.


Surely the same as doing a hill climb for time?


----------



## sazzaa (24 May 2014)

You should totally be a pro eh.


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

Yep hill climbs do the same thing. The down side is there aren't many hill climbs run on a weekly basis on the same hill. 
The other thing to consider is that by losing weight your hill climbing will improve even if your power isn't.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Yep hill climbs do the same thing. The down side is there aren't many hill climbs run on a weekly basis on the same hill.
> The other thing to consider is that by losing weight your hill climbing will improve even if your power isn't.


TT isnt only reflective of power though either. In a not well thought out statement at all i would say TT is heavily influenced by aero+power and HC is influenced by weight and power? Not being an idiot mate, just trying to see what's the most significant stable method everyone is using to judge in today's day and age.

We just used to ride hard and you were better if you were dropping everyone else who used to drop you. Which is easily influenced and unpredictable to say the least. But now I'm especially aware of burn out, rest and taking it steady.


----------



## JasonHolder (24 May 2014)

sazzaa said:


> You should totally be a pro eh.


 lol


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

Agreed aero as well as power in TT's. Ultimately a power meter is the training aid that most people who get serious about maximising their potential use.
As an aside I rode with one of the top UK domestic pros last year and he said that he rarely used his pm now as he had got to a level he could tell if he was training effectively. I suspect he is in a minority though.


----------



## 400bhp (24 May 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Yeah probably not worth being arsed checking. Are you using power as well? If not, then what?
> @Rob3rt cheers.



I pish about too much fella-I'll just go off feel and heart rate.

If I got a PM I'd be an utter arse to live with. I tend to get tunnel vision with certain stuff.

Listen to Hacienda though.


----------



## Shadowfax (24 May 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> Yep hill climbs do the same thing. The down side is there aren't many hill climbs run on a weekly basis on the same hill.
> The other thing to consider is that by losing weight your hill climbing will improve even if your power isn't.


Why an event , can't you just time yourself ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> Why an event , can't you just time yourself ?


You can do it on your own, but then you are not competing in the same conditions against others, so you don't see your relative improvement in terms of overall position.


----------



## marcusjb (24 May 2014)

Like much of the stuff that ends up on strava, dodgy gps data can lead to some incredible numbers - I have climbs where I achieved a VAM of 10000 and more, so really not sure it is of any relevance for measuring progress. 

PM is the only really unbiased way to measure progress, but they aren't for everyone (indeed, I have found mine very useful in the build up to a specific goal, but will consider selling it after the goal has been achieved).


----------



## Shadowfax (24 May 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> You can do it on your own, but then you are not competing in the same conditions against others, so you don't see your relative improvement in terms of overall position.


Oh I thought that maybe rather subjective in relation to performance. Would you not have to have the same competitors riding at the same level week on week. ?


----------



## Hacienda71 (24 May 2014)

Shadowfax said:


> I thought that maybe rather subjective in relation to performance. Would you not have to have the same competitors riding at the same level week on week. ?


You seem to get the same riders riding the local Tt's here week in week out. Yes most people will improve during the course of the season but if you are improving relatively more than others then you are getting an indication your training is going well.
All that said a power meter is the ultimate training tool.


----------



## nickyboy (24 May 2014)

400bhp said:


> I can't be arsed to look, but given the description by Rob, I suspect the formula is a quadratic with gradient being squared. Hence the steeper gradients have a greater impact on VAM than your speed.



I didn't think it was that complicated. I assumed (maybe wrongly) that it was just VAM = Vertical metres ascended/hours taken to ascend.

So if you climb 300 vertical metres in 20 minutes, your VAM is 900

Steeper hills generally produce higher VAM because you go slower up steeper hills so there is less air resistance to counter as well as gravity


----------

