# Open water swim training first attempt



## david1701 (8 May 2012)

Ok I a officially no longer gonna try training in boardies, wetsuit coming out tomorrow


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## slowmotion (8 May 2012)

Smart move.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB0oknVzefM[/media]


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## david1701 (8 May 2012)

? Why the boat race thing? My issue was temperature lol I'm perfectly safe where I swim.


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## slowmotion (8 May 2012)

Sorry. It was just the most recent image that sprang to mind of somebody looking happy in a wet suit.


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## 007fair (9 May 2012)

david1701 said:


> Ok I a officially no longer gonna try training in boardies, wetsuit coming out tomorrow


 
Mine has been sitting in the wardrobe since xmas waiting for the weather to warm up a bit
Within the next few weeks it will have to come out as I am booked on my first OW Tri in June.

nervous? yes..


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## david1701 (9 May 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Sorry. It was just the most recent image that sprang to mind of somebody looking happy in a wet suit.


its all good, I'm just being a bit dim atm


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## david1701 (9 May 2012)

007fair said:


> Mine has been sitting in the wardrobe since xmas waiting for the weather to warm up a bit
> Within the next few weeks it will have to come out as I am booked on my first OW Tri in June.
> 
> nervous? yes..


 
lil bit, its my first tri full stop :S


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## 007fair (9 May 2012)

david1701 said:


> lil bit, its my first tri full stop :S


My first is Sunday - May 13th! Although thats a pool swim so not so bad. Just the transitions to cope with. I am a bit nervous about the OW one

Post here with your experiences .. unless of course they are all terrible in which case I don't want to know
If you don't post here .. then we will think you have not survived!


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## david1701 (9 May 2012)

I got caught working so haven't gotten out and now the tide has covered the swimming pool I want to go to :s maybe tomorrow I'll get a chance


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## VamP (10 May 2012)

Hah, my wetsuit arrived yesterday! Quite a science getting in into it, isn't it?

Heron Lake here I come


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## xxmimixx (10 May 2012)

im too going open water (lake) swimming on Sunday for the first time. it's expected to be around 12c freezing   I dont loo k forward to it but it's got to be done!


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## Arsen Gere (10 May 2012)

The Prince Bishops triathlon last weekend in Durham was postponed, the water was 8c !

Grendon this coming weekend may turn in to a duathlon, the water was about 12c. My first OW event this year, I'm not exactly looking forward to it.


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## david1701 (10 May 2012)

yeah the temp is fine with a wetsuit I was in all sprint-summer when I was growing up, its just that it hit pretty hard without the wetsuit
.....


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## Eoin Rua (10 May 2012)

Swim last weekend was shortened to 400m because of the water temperature - I think I was the only one thinking 'this is quite pleasant' when I got into the water...my Dec/Jan acclimatisation swims certainly paid off  Although a shorter swim left me with too much energy coming out of the water and went off waaaay too fast on the bike! Ah well, live and learn...


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## david1701 (13 May 2012)

Fuuuuuu am I unfit stopped 3 times on a length


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## david1701 (13 May 2012)

Admittedly it is a 290 foot pool so maybe a bit much for a first trip out....

Need some beginners swimming tips though as I'm shattered ......


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## Pottsy (13 May 2012)

I can recommend reading Total Immersion to work on your technique. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Immersion


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## david1701 (13 May 2012)

ogling

anything to make me magically fitter


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## xxmimixx (14 May 2012)

Well did my open water swim. Water was 14c. Dont know how ducks cope but my feet were absolutely freezing  
I used a free hire wetsuit which didnt fit so well so had a lot of water coming in from my arms and madethe swim that little bit chillier than it should have been. But I thoroughly enjoyed, Im glad I did it because I was not as panicked as I thought I would be. Felt really breathless I suppose that's because I was wasting so much energy trying to keep warm and as a result my breathing was all over the place and could not do bi lateral breathing for too long.
I cant wait to get back in and I suspect as soon as I get my wetsuit - Huub here I come lol - then I will love it even more


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## david1701 (14 May 2012)

good on ya, I found mine very constricting (which is odd seeing as when I bought it I wore jeans 2 sizes bigger) but I think thats just because I was being slow and needed to blame something.....

And my arms/shoulders are killing today


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 May 2012)

Eoin Rua said:


> Swim last weekend was shortened to 400m because of the water temperature - I think I was the only one thinking 'this is quite pleasant' when I got into the water...my Dec/Jan acclimatisation swims certainly paid off  Although a shorter swim left me with too much energy coming out of the water and went off waaaay too fast on the bike! Ah well, live and learn...


Where do you swim OW?(freshwater?) saltwater?) I've looked around and somewhat organised venues are rare.

I'm in Larne if that effects any answer 

ps:congrats on first OW swims


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## gambatte (18 May 2012)

I've been lake swimming several times over the last couple of months. Seems the tri clubs etc are bound by their insurance or the venues insurance as to what is an acceptable temperature.
I got to thinking about a few years ago, when I did kayaking, I'd be in rivers and the North Sea 12 months of the year.
I did a bit of searching through Facebook, starting with the Outdoor Swimming Society. Follow a few peoples profiles and you can eventually find groups or events (It's kind of like the 6 degrees of separation thing?)
I eventually found a group called the 'Dove Dippers'. Luckily one of their venues is on my doorstep. It's not an official 'club' just a group of people into swimming outdoors. No joining fees, no session fees. Just turn up and swim at your own risk, but not on your own.
Theres a wide range, from newbies to those training for channel swims. Some don't bother with wetsuits, they're acclimatised for year round swimming.
Another difference for me is, the tri clubs tend to have very structured training sessions? These is more 'up to you'. You can get in and swim 800m, ideally in a straight line.
My 'local' temp was 13C on wednesday, prior to that its been 10/11 for the last month or two.
Nice to swim regularly and get used to how your wetsuit actually fits etc.


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## david1701 (18 May 2012)

Ok now I feel pretty dam lucky I had a pretty big sea pool with lifeguards 3miles from my door, and if I want more distance the Atlantic is right next to it......


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## VamP (23 May 2012)

Second OW swim today. Starting to make some sense out of it, and feel a whole lot better than my first rather bewildering foray into the cold and the murk. Good quality and long warm-up seems to be the key... Water at 14.5 degrees, which felt balmy compared to the 13 we had on Saturday.

Anyone else on here finding their water feet?


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## fimm (24 May 2012)

The rules about water temperature and race distance come from the British Triathlon Federation.
I had my first go in open water this year last week. Apparently it was 8 degrees... to start with I thought I was not going to be able to stay in as my feet hurt so much with the cold... after a bit I stopped feeling them and then had to go through the same process with my hands... once I started swimming it was kind of OK, but I just went round the fairly small loop of buoy once, thus proving to myself that I can still swim in a wetsuit and sight, and got out. It is the getting out and getting changed afterwards I really struggle with, I seem to start suffering with the cold really quickly. This was one reason I didn't want to stay in too long.


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## VamP (24 May 2012)

fimm said:


> The rules about water temperature and race distance come from the British Triathlon Federation.
> I had my first go in open water this year last week. Apparently it was 8 degrees... to start with I thought I was not going to be able to stay in as my feet hurt so much with the cold... after a bit I stopped feeling them and then had to go through the same process with my hands... once I started swimming it was kind of OK, but I just went round the fairly small loop of buoy once, thus proving to myself that I can still swim in a wetsuit and sight, and got out. It is the getting out and getting changed afterwards I really struggle with, I seem to start suffering with the cold really quickly. This was one reason I didn't want to stay in too long.


 

8 degrees!!!!! Brrrrrr.


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## Mrbez (26 May 2012)

I had my first open water swim in a wetsuit today. I did it at Bray Lake, and the temperature was 20 degrees this morning in the water! 

I've been practicing in the pool for the swim, and I did have to switch the breast stroke a few times on the first 750 metres. 

However, once I had finished, I went back for another 500 metres, and completed this much easier. 

I think I was panicking with my breathing a little on the first lap, and probably should have done a few hundred metres before I went straight in for the 750m. 

This is also the first time that I swam that distance non stop. I've only been doing 750m in the pool, but stopping every 6/8 lengths for a breather.


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## 007fair (28 May 2012)

I had my first OW swim on friday night It was beautiful weather and the water lovely and warm! The first 100m I felt a but breathless and the wet suit seemed tight across the chest .. but I relaxed a bit and maybe slowed and it came together nicely. The only weird bit was just before getting in a rat ran across the path and into some rocks near the water. This would have put some off so i didn't mention it!

Other than that I can't wait to go swimming at Loch Lommond for a longer session


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## Arsen Gere (28 May 2012)

Feeling breathless is quite common, sometimes the cold does it and sometimes if you push yourself you can feel the wet suit restricting you. Like an asthma attack. In a race when it gets a bit choppy sometimes you get a lung full of water or a bit of a ducking. Just slow down, sort youself out and then off you go again, you are in control of the situation, so take it.
Switching stroke, easing off and rolling on to your back are all good coping measures so you can get your breath back, focus on your direction and pick it up again. It's just hard to remember this when you are starting to feel distress.
I'd suggest putting yourself in that situation so you know you can recover, say go flat out so you are breathless, ease off, rollover and then start off again so it becomes a bit more instinctive. A choppy sea swim or a good swell is good practice too it's confidence building.
HTH


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## Mad Doug Biker (29 May 2012)

I'd love to try it, but with my stoma bag I'd be paranoid that it came off and covered the inside on the wetsuit with s**t!

Does anyone have any experience of swimming with one??


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jun 2012)

I haven't been in the lake yet, but I will this weekend. In the meantime, I've been doing about 50 lengths (1250m), plus some other specific exercises, every other morning. I'll change the plan for the next two weeks, to focus on speed over 750 metres one day a week (for my first sprint tri on the 24th), increasing distance on another (first to 60 lengths (1.5km)+ for the Olympic distance tri, and then to 80 lengths (2km)+ for the two of the events I am doing this year that will involve swims of that distance), and open water on the weekend.


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## VamP (9 Jun 2012)

Blenheim Palace team relay: 750 m in 16.01 minutes. Phew, didn't drown and popped my OW competition cherry. The only way is up!


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Jun 2012)

VamP said:


> Blenheim Palace team relay: 750 m in 16.01 minutes. Phew, didn't drown and popped my OW competition cherry. The only way is up!


 
Well done! I haven't been timing my swims at all yet...


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## VamP (10 Jun 2012)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well done! I haven't been timing my swims at all yet...


 
Thanks. I haven't timed myself at all in training, as I figured it would not help me get any faster. I was desperately hoping to be sub 20 minute, so my time was a delightful surprise, especially as I struggled to get a good breathing rhythm going and got freaked by the crowds.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Jun 2012)

VamP said:


> got freaked by the crowds.


 
This is really not a big problem at Canadian tris! 

I had a nice 60 lengths this morning and will be in the lake on the weekend. First competitive open water tri swim in just over a week - it's down as a Sprint Tri, but the swim section is only 500m. The cycling is longer though - suits me!


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## 007fair (18 Jun 2012)

My first OW sprint tri was on Sunday Cold and wet was the weather.. the swim was HORRIBLE! Very cold and after 150 m I was getting breathless - every inhale I could feel water going up my nose and every exhale was hard under water due to the coldness. Then panic started to creep in I felt like i was half way up climbing a cliff and getting vertigo I really just wanted to chuck it. I fipped onto my back and spent a few minutes breathing quick and deep .. I recovered somewhat and was breathing ok so I tried to swim again but this time slower and easier. Was better and I found I could keep going .. the more I swam the better it felt and I was able to finish - with much relief!

The cycle and run were quite good although it was wet still weather wise and I finished in 1:29:11 which was about what I expected. 

I will try another one but from that experience starting the swim slowly is a must. I don't want that experience again!


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## Flying_Monkey (19 Jun 2012)

007fair said:


> My first OW sprint tri was on Sunday Cold and wet was the weather.. the swim was HORRIBLE! Very cold and after 150 m I was getting breathless - every inhale I could feel water going up my nose and every exhale was hard under water due to the coldness. Then panic started to creep in I felt like i was half way up climbing a cliff and getting vertigo I really just wanted to chuck it. I fipped onto my back and spent a few minutes breathing quick and deep .. I recovered somewhat and was breathing ok so I tried to swim again but this time slower and easier. Was better and I found I could keep going .. the more I swam the better it felt and I was able to finish - with much relief!
> 
> The cycle and run were quite good although it was wet still weather wise and I finished in 1:29:11 which was about what I expected.
> 
> I will try another one but from that experience starting the swim slowly is a must. I don't want that experience again!


 
I don't know if this will help you and I am no kind of swimming coach, but I was lucky enough to be trained to swim last year by an open-water endurance swimming world record holder and she said that two of the most common errors in swimming are:

1. Not rolling enough. People often are under the impression that trying to stay straight in the water is a good thing. It isn't. You should be rolling in the direction of the arm you are using for each stroke (so as you stretch out your right arm, you roll right) and more than you think. This is far more efficient and if you feel you are taking in water when you breathe all you do is roll a little further - it might feel like you are almost breathing almost on your back, but really you aren't.

2. Not stretching out and gliding enough. Basically for open water swimming you should be stretching out your arm as much as possible, and gliding as much as you can. When you roll to breathe, your head almost rests on your arm as you glide (remember, you are rolling). If your arm is already on the downstroke as you are breathing you aren't stretching and gliding enough. 

Now, I know the latter contradicts what a lot of triathletes do when they swim, which is the very short and straight down stroke, but it is a far more efficient method and will generally help you if you are feeling that you can't breathe without getting mouth-fulls of water and can't relax.


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## fimm (19 Jun 2012)

Well done 007fair! I was wondering how you got on.
I thought the swim was OK - I've done colder swims - but for your first open water tri I can well understand that it wasn't pleasant. I wasn't very happy with my overall race as I very stupidly didn't check my bike before I racked it and when I started riding I had some friction somewhere. Never did work out what the problem was - and then I got stuck in the big chain ring. Run went OK. I think I clocked 1:28ish. I'll have to track down my times from the last time I did it and see how they compare. Realistically, if I want to be at all competitive I need to do some serious work on my swimming as I spent the entire bike and run leg passing people... (and of course being passed by the fast men coming along behind).


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## 007fair (19 Jun 2012)

I agree FM relax relax relax will be my moto next time. Maybe the Durty in July.



fimm said:


> Well done 007fair! I was wondering how you got on.
> I thought the swim was OK - I've done colder swims - but for your first open water tri I can well understand that it wasn't pleasant. I wasn't very happy with my overall race as I very stupidly didn't check my bike before I racked it and when I started riding I had some friction somewhere. Never did work out what the problem was - and then I got stuck in the big chain ring. Run went OK. I think I clocked 1:28ish. I'll have to track down my times from the last time I did it and see how they compare. Realistically, if I want to be at all competitive I need to do some serious work on my swimming as I spent the entire bike and run leg passing people... (and of course being passed by the fast men coming along behind).


 
Hey FIMM .. forgot you were there too. So there are colder swims .. I must toughen up! 1:28 ish sounds good - well done! - although I don't know what you were expecting. It wasn;t the cold that was the main issue I think - I just rushed my technique a bit and as FM alluded to - Basically I was tense then panicked a bit. Once I recovered I was Ok but can't say the swim was enjoyable! Cycle and run were fine but I will leave the Standard distance till next year. 

When do they release the full results? would be interesting to compare times I am sure T1 was about 3mins for me


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## dslippy (29 Jul 2012)

I come to these forums as a swimmer just beginning cycling. Having competed as a masters (old) swimmer for twenty years I have a fair idea, if anyone wants a tip or two.

We go open water swimming sometimes (Gaddings Dam - high above Todmorden and pretty close to God). It can be cold. I don't understand wet suits. The bits which wet suits don't help with are hands and feet. Which bits are the ones which get cold?

Swimming tips?
- It is 90% technique. Far more than in cycling and running, giving full respect to the complexity of both. Best get some coaching.
- Practice drills. I swim with proper swimmers. Nobody is above recognising the need to practice technique. 
- The drag of the water is so substantial, that you will improve far more by removing drag.
- Be proud of your bum. You should (eventually) feel your that bum is breaking the surface of the water on every stroke. If not, then your body and legs are operating as pretty effective brakes. How? Lean on your sternum. Use the Total Immersion videos and books and always go back to the very basic drills, building from them once you have mastered them.

'Rolling' is not quite right. It is rotation - the body changing from swimming on one hip to swimming on the other without losing the balance discovered using the TI drills.


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## Arsen Gere (31 Jul 2012)

So as a total immersion fan what do you make of Harry Wiltshir ?
(Search youtube, I can't post links from this office, sorry)


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## dslippy (8 Aug 2012)

Good video (and Swim Smooth are worth listening to)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsBTpygrks


The obvious thing is that his arms are untidy above the water, but a high arm stroke can be necessary in choppy water. The only difficulty this might cause is that his hands really hit the water, and as they enter. This just creates resistance, and, if you watch, his hands take a lot of bubbles down into the water with them. That means that his catch is in the middle of broken water, and will not be as powerful.
His bum is high, so the brakes are off. That is a big help.
He has almost no kick, but few distance swimmers kick hard. I think that if he put a proper big beat on his kick (bigger left foot kick as left hand enters etc), he would go link up the front and back engines and find that they worked together to push him forward much better.
He appears to breathe only to one side. In a pool that is fine, but in open water you need to be able to breathe to either side both to see others and in choppy water to choose the better side to breathe.
Watching from above you will see his bum moving from side to side - rolling. This creates unnecessary resistance. He needs to rotate around his long axis. 
His arm movements are not that bad. If you watch his right arm from side on, he clearly drops the elbow underwater. His left arm is better to begin with. Again, that should be improved. It follows from learning to rotate the upper arm more as it enters the water. That allows the hand and forearm to lead the catch and stroke from the get go, and to keep it that way through the stroke.

He might also relax his fingers a little, and make his palm wider across the knuckles. He would have a bigger and more effective paddle.

All this is quite unfair. 
One of the good outcomes of the Swim Smooth coaching style is the allowance that different things work for different people. And what he does works far better for him than I ever managed for myself.


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## Arsen Gere (8 Aug 2012)

Yup and 47:55 for 3.8k at Bolton IM 2012. Wish I could swim that bad


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## dslippy (8 Aug 2012)

Well, you asked, and I did say it was unfair. It is unfair because he has the courage to put it all out there on film, and we do not know what he was trying to achieve. He is for sure faster than I ever have been - but I did not start until I was nearly twice his age,and that was many years ago.
I doubt entirely that he has not been told everything I have said a dozen times (at least) by his coaches.
He is very fit, very young, a professional athlete, with a specialism in swimming, and good swim coaches. I see he was swimming the demo at the John Charles Pool. He is among good coaching staff. He might well knock a few minutes off that time if he listened to them a bit more, and more again if the swim you refer to was in a wet suit.
Take a look at videos of the swimmers in the Olympics. You will see a wide variety of stroke styles. Even so, very few will not have a much better style. Read a few blog posts from swim smooth about technique, and then look again at HW.
If I sat on my bike and was filmed, the list of my mistakes would be much longer and more severe, and properly so. I am overweight, over 60, and a complete beginner. Swimming is very technique driven. It is not sorted just by getting fitter.


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## Piemaster (26 Aug 2012)

Went for my first OW swim on Thursday and 2nd one today here
Loving it. Found I was a lot more relaxed and the swim easier today, think a little anxiety on Thursday and first swim in a wetsuit didn't help (falling out of sailing dinghies doesn't count as swimming).
Another couple of first timers there as well today.


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## Arsen Gere (3 Sep 2012)

Piemaster said:


> Went for my first OW swim on Thursday and 2nd one today here
> Loving it. quote]
> 
> .


For something a bit different there is Ellerton Lake, near Catterick, not too far from you. It is used for the Cleveland Short Course race which is a flat standard distance race you might fancy next year. It will also feature in the Double Steelman, or Ironman to you and me but not by the main brand and a lot cheaper


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## fatmo (6 Jan 2013)

I'm in training for a middle distance tri later in the year and want to do some open water swims as training, Ive never done one before and found a reservoir not too far away in Coleshill, Warwickshire, but couldn't find a contact number to ask if its ok to swim, there is a sailing club there.
Is it ok to just go ahead or do we need permission to swim ? can anyone help ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Jan 2013)

Your local fishing shop should be able to at least point you in the direction of the angling licence people, the same people who would permit OW swimming there.

Worth a shot.http://www.stwater.co.uk/leisure-and-learning/reservoir-locations/shustoke/*/tab/overview/


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## ziggys101 (6 Jan 2013)

fatmo said:


> I'm in training for a middle distance tri later in the year and want to do some open water swims as training, Ive never done one before and found a reservoir not too far away in Coleshill, Warwickshire, but couldn't find a contact number to ask if its ok to swim, there is a sailing club there.
> Is it ok to just go ahead or do we need permission to swim ? can anyone help ?


 
Find your local triathlon club as they will probably have open water sessions that are open to everyone when the weather warms up a little :-)


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## fatmo (6 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Your local fishing shop should be able to at least point you in the direction of the angling licence people, the same people who would permit OW swimming there.
> 
> Worth a shot.http://www.stwater.co.uk/leisure-and-learning/reservoir-locations/shustoke/*/tab/overview/


Thanks T.M.H.N.E.T, I'll give it a bash


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## fatmo (6 Jan 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> Find your local triathlon club as they will probably have open water sessions that are open to everyone when the weather warms up a little :-)


 
Thanks Ziggy101, I'm going to join Coventry Triathletes in a couple of weeks, I hope they do OW sesh's


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