# Does cod liver oil help?



## malcermie (16 Feb 2013)

Been riding a road bike for about a month and am getting some pain in my right knee, a fellow rider told me he uses cod liver oil and his pain has gone. What are you opinions on this?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

The pain is probably due to bike setup. The science is undecided if cod liver oil actually works

How well are your knees covered during rides? Do you warm up slowly if at all?


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## malcermie (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The pain is probably due to bike setup. The science is undecided if cod liver oil actually works
> 
> How well are your knees covered during rides? Do you warm up slowly if at all?


I try to warm up slowly and this time of year my knees are covered and warm. I have my saddle as high as it can be and still have a slight bend in my leg at bottom centre. Think I need to spin a bit faster


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

By the sounds of it, you need a proper bike fit.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Feb 2013)

Tumeric is scientifically proven to help joints. Capsules are expensive, I put half a teaspoon in my beans every day....mega cheap at 65p per big bag.


That's why Asian countries don't suffer arthritis like westerner'


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## HovR (16 Feb 2013)

Slightly irrelevant, but a few months ago a family member's old chocolate lab's arthritis progressed to a point where he really struggled to walk. They started feeding him a cod liver oil tablet twice a day in some meat, as recommended by the vet, and now he has no troubles walking and even running again.

So, it can work in dogs, although I agree this sounds like a bike fit issue.


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## Saluki (16 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> Tumeric is scientifically proven to help joints. Capsules are expensive, I put half a teaspoon in my beans every day....mega cheap at 65p per big bag.
> 
> 
> That's why Asian countries don't suffer arthritis like westerner'


That is really interesting. I will try tumeric in my beans from now on.
I drink aloe vera in the mornings, 2 fl oz of the stuff and it keeps my arthritis at bay.

Malcermi, it could be your bike set up. I am getting a fitting for my bike in the next couple of weeks. Our LBS charges around £25 which I think is good value.


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2013)

(Assuming that you use clipless pedals ...) It doesn't take much error in setting up your cleats to cause knee problems, as I discovered to my cost. I was a bit careless fitting cleats to a new pair of shoes and one ride was enough to make my knees hurt for weeks.

I take Glucosamine Sulphate and Cod Liver oil every day. Yes, there is no definitive proof that they help ease joint problems but my problems have not progressed at anywhere near the rate that I thought they would so I'm going to continue taking them on the basis that I don't want to stop and then discover that I was being helped after all. There are definitely other health benefits from the Omega 3 in fish oils, even if the jury is still out on the benefits to joints.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Feb 2013)

Saluki said:


> That is really interesting. I will try tumeric in my beans from now on.
> I drink aloe vera in the mornings, 2 fl oz of the stuff and it keeps my arthritis at bay.
> 
> Malcermi, it could be your bike set up. I am getting a fitting for my bike in the next couple of weeks. Our LBS charges around £25 which I think is good value.



According to research it's natures equivalent (but more effective) to ibuprofen, I.e, an anti inflammatory.

Which for me is great, I'm allergic to daily ibuprofen.


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> Tumeric is scientifically proven to help joints. Capsules are expensive, I put half a teaspoon in my beans every day....mega cheap at 65p per big bag.
> 
> 
> That's why Asian countries don't suffer arthritis like westerner'


I use loads of curry powder (containing turmeric), even when I'm not making curries! (And ginger, garlic, chiilis ...)


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

Why treat inflammation when damage has been done, when you could look to preventing the damage itself?


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## derrick (16 Feb 2013)

malcermie said:


> Been riding a road bike for about a month and am getting some pain in my right knee, a fellow rider told me he uses cod liver oil and his pain has gone. What are you opinions on this?


If you started taking it 20 years ago you might not be suffering now.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Why treat inflammation when damage has been done, when you could look to preventing the damage itself?


Might be old age? Might be nowt to do wi' cycling.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> Might be old age? Might be nowt to do wi' cycling.


It could well be. If OP could confirm he had no knee trouble before taking up cycling, it would narrow it down a bit.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It could well be. If OP could confirm he had no knee trouble before taking up cycling, it would narrow it down a bit.


True


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> True


I'd also like to reword my post above.

"Why treat pain which is a sign that damage has been done/is being done, when you could look to preventing the pain/damage itself?"

Technically, inflammation is a protective response post damage. My choice of wording was slightly off.


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## malcermie (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It could well be. If OP could confirm he had no knee trouble before taking up cycling, it would narrow it down a bit.


Had slight knee pain before taking up serious cycling so think it is more likely me than than bike


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

malcermie said:


> Had slight knee pain before taking up serious cycling so think it is more likely me than than bike


See a professional,at the very least for an ok to continue cycling. Wouldn't do any harm to stretch either, in particular the ITB


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## cyberknight (16 Feb 2013)

In cw last week it said to buy good cod liver oil as the cheap generic stuff misses out on some of the good stuff due to the farmed fish not eating krill etc , from a sky nutritionist i think it was.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

They missed the bit where cod liver oil is squeezed from the livers of fish and bottled or made into capsules for human consumption.

Unless there is an underlying issue, the lubrication(synovial fluid) of human joints is secreted within the joint. Buying CLO of any quality,with a view to lubricating joints may well be throwing money at something that isn't a fix.


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## cyberknight (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> They missed the bit where cod liver oil is squeezed from the livers of fish and bottled or made into capsules for human consumption.
> 
> Unless there is an underlying issue, the lubrication(synovial fluid) of human joints is secreted within the joint. Buying CLO of any quality,with a view to lubricating joints may well be throwing money at something that isn't a fix.


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## ayceejay (16 Feb 2013)

If God had been an engineer he would have given us grease nipples on all our joints so that we could get the lubrication where it is needed most, at least these nipples would be more use than the two I have on my chest.


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Unless there is an underlying issue, the lubrication(synovial fluid) of human joints is secreted within the joint. Buying CLO of any quality,with a view to lubricating joints may well be throwing money at something that isn't a fix.


But ... what are those secretions made _from_? 

There is an awful lot of anecdotal evidence about the effects of CLO. I know it might not be scientifically valid, and the placebo effect might be a factor but there are also a lot of people saying that their crippled dogs started walking or even running again after being given CLO. Dogs don't know anything about placebos! (I don't believe that someone would _imagine_ that their dog was crippled before taking CLO but wasn't after taking it.)


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

The most common issue in dogs is arthritis - CLO contains lots of omega 3 - of which there is only flaky, suggestive evidence that it provides any relief of symptoms.

But Omega 3 contains plenty of

EPA - thought/known to inhibit inflammation


Now. We don't actually know if the OP has arthritis but we do know he is not a dog, so can at least trust that he won't lick us to death.(hopefully)

What we can trust in, is that the OP probably has a doctor - and can visit that doctor for further advice.



I'm starting to think I should have just said "go to holland and barratt's and buy 1 of everything"


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## HovR (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Now. We don't actually know if the OP has arthritis but we do know he is not a dog...


 
Do we though?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'm starting to think I should have just said "go to holland and barratt's and buy 1 of everything"


Yep. I really should have just said this


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## DooDah (16 Feb 2013)

> Why treat inflammation when damage has been done, when you could look to preventing the damage itself?


 
Errrr, because the damage has already been done?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

DooDah said:


> Errrr, because the damage has already been done?


Um


T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'd also like to reword my post above.
> 
> "Why treat pain which is a sign that damage has been done/is being done, when you could look to preventing the pain/damage itself?"
> 
> Technically, inflammation is a protective response post damage. My choice of wording was slightly off.


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## DooDah (16 Feb 2013)

Oh, OK, sorry, I got carried away as usual


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

User13710 said:


> The bit about remedies like this that I don't understand is: You swallow the oil, it goes into your stomach where it's acted on by very efficient gastric acids, then it somehow knows that it needs to survive that unscathed and go directly to your (knee) joints and act as a lubricant? Something about that doesn't quite ring true to me, and sounds like sympathetic magic (which has been shown to work almost universally in all sorts of ways, it's true) so maybe I'm just being naive here.
> 
> Cod liver oil's cheap, but glucosamine and the like isn't, and that's the bit that worries me. Why not take a teaspoonful of sunflower oil every day, even cheaper and just as effective as a placebo perhaps? Before condemning that idea, just test it?


That's the thing. It doesn't act as a lubricant. The acids in particular EPA(when broken down) act as an anti-inflammatory.(supposedly as I haven't thoroughly read the science as yet,but we'll assume the dog anecdote is correct)

Inflammation is a response to a stimulus (ie: burns,chemicals,physical injury,arthritis yada yada )which is there to protect the area and allow healing.ie: you break a metatarsal, it will hurt to walk on and it will swell. Pain and swelling are a sign that something is wrong, but you wouldn't pop remedies to remove it and carry on running. You would go to A&E, have an xray and don some fetching plaster for a few weeks.


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## malcermie (16 Feb 2013)

Ok I shall be a guinea pig!!!! Will get some on Monday and take the recommended dose for a month and report back, unless I turn into dog, guinea pig or hamster


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## DooDah (16 Feb 2013)

> Inflammation is a response to a stimulus (ie: burns,chemicals,physical injury(like a knee!) which is there to protect the area and allow healing.


 
Ah, now this I totally agree with. Due to my job, I put strain on my body everyday, and in different ways everyday. When I change shoes, for example, when a pair wear out, I can get inflammation in my feet. Hence I wear specifically designed insoles for my feet which alleviate the problems regardless of the shoes. I wear these for cycling also, and I have not had problems since. Therefore, cleat position, choice of shoes, bike fit, insoles etc. can all lead to knee pain and inflammation.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

malcermie said:


> Ok I shall be a guinea pig!!!! Will get some on Monday and take the recommended dose for a month and report back, unless I turn into dog, guinea pig or hamster


Or see a doctor, maybe try to find an underlying cause?

I've wasted my time haven't I


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## deanE (16 Feb 2013)

User13710 said:


> Why not take a teaspoonful of sunflower oil every day, even cheaper and just as effective as a placebo perhaps? Before condemning that idea, just test it?


 Better still put the oil into a pan and fry chips in it!


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## DooDah (16 Feb 2013)

I agree, my GP (in France) prescribed me anti-inflammatory drugs for my foot problems. When the problem came back, she I was working too hard. It was myself that had to look at the root problem and sort it out.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Feb 2013)

User13710 said:


> GPs aren't very good at this sort of thing though, are they? An orthopaedic surgeon will want to operate, and a physio will prescribe exercises. But here the easiest route would seem to be a tweak of the bike first.


They should be aware of the basics of joints, perhaps not in relation to cycling. But at the very least, a GP who knows your full medical history is in a better place to advise than the CC massif would ever be. Unless you happen to have a doctor who is a connoisseur of sport like mine 



> I do take your point about inflammation though. I've only come across this in relation to horses so it might not be directly applicable. But there, anti-inflammatories are prescribed on a very long-term, and sometimes permanent, basis as if no healing would be expected to take place. We were also sometimes told to encourage inflammation by using heat (and there used to be a rather barbaric practice called 'firing' in which tendons were seared with a red-hot iron for this purpose).


Our 4 legged friends are often victims of joint issues we as humans have no cure for. At best life can be made more comfortable or indeed ended in the case of fallen horses. I do believe though, horses are being used as trial subjects for some localized injection method. I can't remember offhand what the process was called but it was basically, fluid from one joint injected into another type thing.



> People use these remedies for aching joints on a very long-term basis, when it might be expected that a joint would protect itself eventually with calcification (have I got that right?) and the inflammation would die down.


A lot of the remedies are a comfort issue over repair though. Some interesting reading if you wish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synovial_joint

Follow through to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articular_cartilage#Articular_cartilage

To

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articular_cartilage_repair

Suggestive that cartilage takes years to adapt (75% in 2yrs) meaning a short rehab period is back to square one.


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## Albert (16 Feb 2013)

Cod Liver Oil Works - if (IF?!) you're man/woman enough to take it correctly.
1 - Use it in liquid form - not capsules.
2 - Mix a tablespoon full with half a glass of cold milk and drink it first thing every morning, before drinking or eating anything else.
3 - Eat nothing and drink nothing for 30 minutes.


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2013)

Albert said:


> Cod Liver Oil Works - if (IF?!) you're man/woman enough to take it correctly.
> 1 - Use it in liquid form - not capsules.
> 2 - Mix a tablespoon full with half a glass of cold milk and drink it first thing every morning, before drinking or eating anything else.
> 3 - Eat nothing and drink nothing for 30 minutes.


I was told that by someone once so I thought I'd try it. I managed to get all the oil down before the shock hit me! I was doing fishy burps for the rest of the day - _not nice_!


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2013)

ColinJ said:


> I was told that by someone once so I thought I'd try it. I managed to get all the oil down before the shock hit me! I was doing fishy burps for the rest of the day - _not nice_!


I don't know whether my joints ached that day - I was too busy trying not to throw up!


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## ayceejay (16 Feb 2013)

I can remember when a tablespoon of CLO was a test of how sick you were. To miss school when both your parents were working was a serious event. if you were really sick a dose of CLO was the prescribed medicine. What this added up to was: to get a day off school you had to swallow the CLO. I did this once and moved on to stage 2 the next day which was a bowl of tripe and onions, quite magically I was instantly cured. Chicken pox or measles was a much better excuse, you can't fake those spots.


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## Ningishzidda (16 Feb 2013)

derrick said:


> If you started taking it 20 years ago you might not be suffering now.


 
I did, and I'm not.


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## Ningishzidda (16 Feb 2013)

Take a tablespoon of Liquid Paraffin every evening and you'll stop worrying about your knees.


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## Andy_G (17 Feb 2013)

Ive had two ops on my right knee and until a few months back i started to get pains on the outside of my knee, so i adjusted my cleat position so it was more towards the heal coming out and a few days later the pain went and hasnt come back.
Afterwards i read some where that if the pain is outside adjust the position towards heal out and pain inside of the knee more toe out.

Work a treat for me.


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## DougieAB (18 Feb 2013)

The turmeric thing sounds interesting but how would you incorporate it into your daily diet? (assuming you don't eat beans every day)


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## ColinJ (18 Feb 2013)

DougieAB said:


> The turmeric thing sounds interesting but how would you incorporate it into your daily diet? (assuming you don't eat beans every day)


Have a curry! (You don't need to buy high fat ones made by someone else - cook a healthy one yourself.)


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## snorri (18 Feb 2013)

malcermie said:


> Ok I shall be a guinea pig!!!! Will get some on Monday and take the recommended dose for a month and report back, unless I turn into dog, guinea pig or hamster


 Thank you! I look forward to hear of your findings. I've been cycling the same 3 bikes for the last 10 years or so (not at the same time)and not suffered knee pain until the past year. There is no pain when cycling or walking, only when climbing stairs after cycling.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Feb 2013)

DougieAB said:


> The turmeric thing sounds interesting but how would you incorporate it into your daily diet? (assuming you don't eat beans every day)


As Colin says, curry or stew. You can buy capsule making kits, there are some videos on YouTube too. Capsules from holland and Barratt are £9 per 100!!!


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## DougieAB (19 Feb 2013)

A couple of points about turmeric that I found:- It is only soluble in oil, not in water, and as the human body is made up largely of water it will not be properly absorbed. Maybe mix it with cod liver oil first! Yum Secondly, better to buy organic from a health food shop than your local supermarket as this will have been treated to last. Not sure how valid that second point is. Will continue my research.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Feb 2013)

All the studies and research papers, qualitative and quantitative, were done on both Asian and western cultures of people eating it in food. I'm pretty sure that Asian people just eat it as it comes in powder form.

Mind you tho, their diet does use a lot of oil (wife's Asian, so I have a little insight), hmmm I wonder if I need to start adding some olive oil to my beans as well?


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## beastie (19 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> All the studies and research papers, qualitative and quantitative, were done on both Asian and western cultures of people eating it in food. I'm pretty sure that Asian people just eat it as it comes in powder form.
> 
> Mind you tho, their diet does use a lot of oil (wife's Asian, so I have a little insight), hmmm I wonder if I need to start adding some olive oil to my beans as well?


It won't be olive oil being used by the Asians.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Feb 2013)

beastie said:


> It won't be olive oil being used by the Asians.


My wife and her family and friends do.


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## beastie (19 Feb 2013)

bromptonfb said:


> My wife and her family and friends do.


Fair enough. Which part of Asia is she from?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Feb 2013)

SE


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## doog (19 Feb 2013)

malcermie said:


> Been riding a road bike for about a month and am getting some pain in my right knee, a fellow rider told me he uses cod liver oil and his pain has gone. What are you opinions on this?


 
Take some Nurofen, ensure your set up is right, increase you cadence and drop a gear and build up slowly.


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