# Is riding on unlight country roads at night suicide?



## MacLean (11 Mar 2010)

Hi all,

I cant decide on this. Im planning on doing lejog and can only do my large 50miler+ runs at the weekends, so during the week i am limited to 6:45pm and onwards, which usually means its dark.... But i need to train.

Now I want to do this route tonight as although its not a huge distance, it has a pretty steep hill climb that should allow me to give my legs a good workout.... Im just slightly worried about riding on unlight country roads, with no cats eyes or anything when it gets dark, I do obviously have lights but dont have any idea of how dangerous or not this may be... What do you guys thing? Anyone do this themselfs?

BTW the A road is pretty quiet although i will get a good 20 - 30 cars or so passing me... THanks!


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## MacB (11 Mar 2010)

Lots of us do long miles on unlit roads commuting through Winter. My personal experience is that it's actually safer than daylight on some of these roads. If you're really well lit up then cars aren't sure what you are or where your vehiclce starts and ends. I certainly feel they give me more room in the dark than in light.


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## Rhythm Thief (11 Mar 2010)

If you have good lights you should be fine. I feel more visible during my 3am commute home on 12 miles of unlit rural A road than I do on the same commute during daylight.


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## fossyant (11 Mar 2010)

How good are your lights........................

What have you got. Unlit roads you'll be wanting something very bright - e.g. Hope Vision 1, or a 'high power LED torch' type light, and rears good quality ones like Smart superflash, Blackburn Mars 3 or 4 etc. etc. Also have a backup light as well on front and rear.


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## MacLean (11 Mar 2010)

Hmm yeh, my lights were about 20quid for a deal off amazon for the pair,

They seem pretty bright, but yeh not sure if they're gonna be bright enough....

I may go for it, but be ready to turn around when I hit the country roads if I dont feel they are bright enough.


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## MacB (11 Mar 2010)

For an idea on lights, I run two or three of the little smartflash ones at the rear, 2 are fixed to the rack and one on saddlepack, I have them all on flash. On the front I have a standard LED which is a light to be seen by rather than to see with, I run this on flash. I also have a Fenix torch which is my light to see with, on full power I can go as fast as I want on unlit roads. Though I do lust after a SON frontwheel dynamo and Edleux light.


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## gbb (11 Mar 2010)

I used to do a lot of night (evening) riding...good front lights and concentration are the first requirements. Sometimes it can get hairy when you can't differentiate between the road and verge.

The other downside is oncoming cars with main beam, or oncoming over the brow of a hill with normal headlights, you're convinced they've got main beam on, but it's just the throw of their normal lights that's in your eyes.

I found a helmet with a visor useful. Look 10 feet or so in front and use the visor to block the glare.

6 and 2 threes...quiet roads, but the headlights can be a problem.


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## zacklaws (11 Mar 2010)

If you plan on riding unlit country roads at night, I would do a good slow recce in daylight first. The state of the roads presently are dangerous enough with all these potholes that have appeared this winter. Even with good lights it is difficult to tell shallow holes from deep holes till your on top of them. Another problem I have found on country roads, I can sometimes get disorientated to the edge of the road if it is not marked by a white line and have left it in the past on occasions

On the plus side, cars approaching from the front and rear can be spotted from a good distance especially when going round blind corners providing they have their lights on.

So go for it but keep your speeds down to give yourself time to react to these potholes and anything else which may suddenly pop up in front of you, for example, ninja joggers, dog walkers, animals etc


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## palinurus (11 Mar 2010)

With good lights it's fun, with poor lights it's awful.

Rear lights are easy- there are plenty of good LED lights that are cheap enough that you can have two (so if one fails you have a backup). Front lights need to be bright enough to see far enough that you can travel at a reasonable speed.


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## palinurus (11 Mar 2010)

MacLean said:


> I may go for it, but be ready to turn around when I hit the country roads if I dont feel they are bright enough.



Good plan. It will be pretty obvious if they are not.


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## HJ (11 Mar 2010)

I used to commute on unlit rural roads and found that have a decent set of lights makes all the difference, you need something to see by not just been seen. This is my light set up:



I use the DiNotte 400L Road Rider's Experience, which are currently on sale at 20% off from DiNotte.


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## jig-sore (11 Mar 2010)

MacB said:


> Lots of us do long miles on unlit roads commuting through Winter. My personal experience is that it's actually safer than daylight on some of these roads. If you're really well lit up then cars aren't sure what you are or where your vehiclce starts and ends. I certainly feel they give me more room in the dark than in light.



+1

but you need decent lights. hope vision 1 gets my vote, more then enough light on the road for around £70-£80, oh and get some decent batteries.


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## briank (11 Mar 2010)

The upside, apart from the fun of it, is that with very little other lights around your eyes will quickly adjust - you'll maybe even find yourself out on a clear night when the moon is full and turn your lights off altogether. Silver daylight - magic!
But 99% of the time you need a front light bright enough not only to distinguish the unmarked road from the verge but also to let you pick out big stones fallen off walls, ditto branches off trees and, of course, meandering hedgehogs.
Twin lights are good, the lesser bright enough and angled to do the above, the other much brighter and angled up so that the occasional pillock who isn't just cresting a rise but coming towards you on main can be persuaded to drop'em.


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## GrasB (11 Mar 2010)

Night riding, on back roads?... I love it .

The problem is you need high end lights & they ain't cheap. My minimum if you intend on riding relatively swiftly is a single light, such as a Hope 1 or exposure Joystick, is an absolute minimum but I'd say you really want 2 of them. It's better if you have a tighter spot & wider beam too.

My current setup is for riding at high speed in the pitch dark & being able to see all obstacles in my path in time. The result is 2x Exposure Joysticks an Ay-up 'wide' up front with an Exposure red-eye & Ay-up 'intermediate' with saxon caps up on the seat post & a Cateye LD 610 on each of the seat stays. I just suggest sitting down when you work out how much I've spent on my light setup.


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## HLaB (11 Mar 2010)

I don't know if I'm right or not I feel more visible at night, my gauge is the quality of overtakes and they seem to be better. IMO Good lights = no problem.


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## wafflycat (11 Mar 2010)

The vast majority of roads I cycle on at night are unlit country lanes. Has something to do with living in the countryside. So far, cycling on them at night has not resulted in my death.


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## jamesxyz (11 Mar 2010)

MacB said:


> it's actually safer than daylight on some of these roads. If you're really well lit up then cars aren't sure what you are or where your vehiclce starts and ends. I certainly feel they give me more room in the dark than in light.




With good lights and hi-viz gear you are easy to see - have at least one flashing and one constant rear light (flashing is more visible while constant is better for judging distacne apparently). Cars are much easier to see and hear in the dark & still night air.

As some of the others have said the most dangerous thing is hitting a bloody great pothole and coming off if you don't know the road. Your reaction times need to be much quicker in the beam of bike light.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Mar 2010)

Nope. With the right lights and some reflective gear you are proably safer than in broad daylight on a main road. Just attend to both the 'be seen' and 'see by' aspects of your front lights and run something so bright at the back it burns out drivers retina's.


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## Wobblers (11 Mar 2010)

Suicide? Definitely not! In fact, I feel safer at night. Far more motorists wait at junctions until I've past before pulling out than in the daytime so I seem to be more noticeable at night. But is important to have a _good_ set of lights. Something like the Hope Vision One is probably the minimum I'd use - that way you can see the verges and obstacles ahead in good time. It's also a good idea to cycle on lanes and roads that you're familiar with, so you know where the potholes are. On the FNRttC, I used a Fenix LD2 aimed about ten feet ahead so that I could spot potholes in time to avoid them.

Cycling at night is probably my favourite time - it's quieter and more relaxing. Go out and enjoy!


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## GrasB (11 Mar 2010)

jamesxyz said:


> As some of the others have said the most dangerous thing is hitting a bloody great pothole and coming off if you don't know the road. Your reaction times need to be much quicker in the beam of bike light.


It depends on the lights, a relatively low level of flood elimination can give you enough information to know what part of the road to avoid. The only issue is that you get false positives on deep pot holes/branches/stones on the road if you can see darker patches of road but there isn't enough flood to really see. Personally I'd prefer to have false positives rather than not spotting something.


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## Norm (11 Mar 2010)

palinurus said:


> With good lights it's fun, with poor lights it's awful.


+1. I've done a fair bit of riding at night, on and off road, and I love it as long as it isn't too busy. There's an extra element to night riding that you just don't get during the day.

I have also invested a lot in my lights (Exposure Enduro Maxx and head-mounted Exposure Joystick on the front, 2 x Smart 1/2 watt and an Exposure RedEye Micro on the back) but they pay back when I'm riding at night. I have yet to have a car which didn't dip for me, for instance, and I get more courtesy and room at night.

The other side of the coin is that I've also had a few twats attempting penis enhancement by mouthing off in front of their mates, but that has only ever happened to me in towns.


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## Crankarm (12 Mar 2010)

You don't need mega expensive lights, just good ones. I have just one Cateye EL130, the small 3 LED one, most of the time. Sometimes I put the other EL130 back up alongside. But I have 4 SMART rear lights, 20 LEDS in total and *most importantly a hi-viz gilet*. Vehicles give me a very wide berth passing on the other side of the road.

I like cycling in the evening and night on rural roads when there is little traffic about. Far safer than cycling in an urban environment where drivers are throttle to the floor and where there are few cars that are present during the day to slow them down. Only time I am a little anxious is if cycling on a friday or saturday night because of drunk drivers or chav/scum who may also be drunk or high as kites.


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## mossy (13 Mar 2010)

My set up is like Macb ,I certainly seem to be given more room at night.
As everyone has said,invest in good lights,especiallly rearwards.There are lots of good advice here.Always have back up.
Lastly enjoy ,I prefer at night ,quieter and chance to think but miss the views.

Good luck.


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## plainlazy (13 Mar 2010)

+ 1 for feeling safer at night, I get given more room by far.
I have three backs lights (One flashing. Two constant) and Three fronts light again same as rear.
Found a light on the skid lid helps with checking verge, pot holes etc and seems to confuse the motorist as to what type of vehicle you are and thus they dip their head lights and slow now.


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## manimal (13 Mar 2010)

I ride unlit roads to work in the dark every day. I use one of these:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16092

It is awesome and on the single track roads i use cars pull over to let you through as they havent go a clue whats coming towards them!!!


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## betty swollocks (13 Mar 2010)

There's a theme here: with good lights it's safer than daylight.
Reflectives too.


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## GrasB (13 Mar 2010)

If you can keep your front lights in a fairly close formation with a number of lights you often fool motorists into thinking you're a motorbike... this generally is a good thing.


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## kewb (13 Mar 2010)

im not so sure about bright lights being the answer ,
if youve a clear front flashing light simply replace with a blue led and get the roads to yourself ,

joke .


anyone else find that when a car fails to dim its lights and your dazzled you drift towards the light (not a joke btw ) 
on occasion ive almost been in opposite lane because of this , i must have some condition 
as nobody ive spoken to does it , very strange and terrifying , has me almost slow to a 
crawl to avoid ?


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## shouldbeinbed (13 Mar 2010)

agree with crankarm - 
they don't need to be mega expensive just good quality.

my lights to be seen by are smart lunar 25 kit which is a very bright front and the excellent 1/2 watt rear - £50, or less if you catch a sale somewhere and they get me a wide berth and dipped lights by every driver.

I've never had a 'to see the road by' front light that cost more than £80 and have happily ridden pitch dark twisty country roads at all hours of the night whilst on call.


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## Norm (13 Mar 2010)

kewb said:


> anyone else find that when a car fails to dim its lights and your dazzled you drift towards the light (not a joke btw )
> on occasion ive almost been in opposite lane because of this , i must have some condition as nobody ive spoken to does it , very strange and terrifying , has me almost slow to a crawl to avoid ?


Target fixation? Just don't look at the lights.

Had a lovely ride on an unlit country road this evening.


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## markg0vbr (13 Mar 2010)

good lights, reflective, clothing. most cars will not dip there lights so look down and to the left as they approach or just close one eye when the car has gone past and you open your eye you will still have your night vision.
i use 12v gel battery with the led brake light strips from a car at the back and three led down lighter bulbs mr11, total cost £18.


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## snorri (13 Mar 2010)

kewb said:


> anyone else find that when a car fails to dim its lights and your dazzled you drift towards the light (not a joke btw )
> on occasion ive almost been in opposite lane because of this , i must have some condition
> as nobody ive spoken to does it , very strange and terrifying , has me almost slow to a
> crawl to avoid ?



I do that occasionally, it has the double plus of slowing down the oncoming vehicle and getting the driver to dip lights.
You have to be very sure there is nothing behind you though.


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## Ian H (13 Mar 2010)

My 3w dynamo light is adequate for dark Devon lanes, and bright enough to cause motorists to dip and, where it's narrow, pull in to wait. It wouldn't have the same effect on motorists if I had it pointing at the ground a few feet in front of me - I see a lot of cyclists who set their lights up just like that but, personally, I prefer to see ahead.


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## kewb (14 Mar 2010)

Norm said:


> Target fixation? Just don't look at the lights.
> 
> Had a lovely ride on an unlit country road this evening.



i tell you it isnt pleasant ,i do check behind as cars approach anyway out of habbit for safety reasons but i cant explain it i dont drift in daylight or 
if cars pass lights dimmed ,
its when im dazzled im like "walk into the bloomin light " 
so i now crawl past cars on full beam for both our safety ,
i can only assume im automatically heading for the only point of reference 
in restricted sight ive on occasion over compensated and rode along kerbsides ,grass verges etc but settled on reducing speed were the sensation of road position is clearer and points of reference easier to make out .


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## markg0vbr (14 Mar 2010)

kewb said:


> when im dazzled im like "walk into the bloomin light "
> .


if you see a diminutive plump woman, turn the bike around and peddle like Beelzebub has just nibbled your elbow. 




sorry... but it is the one thing well one of a phew, alright one of a increasing number of things that seam me, when a total t..t comes at you full beam, (my head is exactly the same hight from the road as the head light) i some time say gosh you flipping cad quiet loudly.


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## GrasB (14 Mar 2010)

shouldbeinbed said:


> agree with crankarm -
> they don't need to be mega expensive just good quality.
> 
> my lights to be seen by are smart lunar 25 kit which is a very bright front and the excellent 1/2 watt rear - £50, or less if you catch a sale somewhere and they get me a wide berth and dipped lights by every driver.
> ...


It really depends on how you're riding, at less than 15mph I could use a £25 'be seen' light but I'm not doing 15mph I'm closer to 25mph. At those sorts of speeds I'd almost certainly have taken many trips to A&E due to not seeing things like rabbits, deer, cats, etc. at the side of the road before they've run out in front of me & some of the smaller but rather nasty surface imperfections.


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## zacklaws (14 Mar 2010)

I forgot to add in my earlier post, that I find a headlight useful too. Unlike your lights fixed to the bike, an headlight will point to wherever you look, so when your turning by just looking that way you can illuminate the area you are turning into and not crash into something that suddenly appears out of the darkness.

When riding through wooded areas etc too with a headlight, its surprising how many pairs of eyes glare out of the darkness back at you as you look to the left and right, with a bit of imaginative thinking, big cats etc it can help increase your pace a bit.


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## MacLean (15 Mar 2010)

Well I did the run, and I only had front and back light but I was happy enough with what I could see.

And yes I also got that oncoming car blidness and found myself much further to the right than I would have liked when my vision came back....

I started putting head down so that the little cap bit of the helmet blocked the beam..... 

All in all was exactly how you all sed, the cars seem to give you even more room... I did feel like a bit of a nutter though for some reason 

After my hill climb there was alot of fast downhill, and tbh I found the fact I couldnt see as well made it all the more exciting lol.


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## wafflycat (15 Mar 2010)

zacklaws said:


> *I forgot to add in my earlier post, that I find a headlight useful too. *Unlike your lights fixed to the bike, an headlight will point to wherever you look, so when your turning by just looking that way you can illuminate the area you are turning into and not crash into something that suddenly appears out of the darkness.
> 
> When riding through wooded areas etc too with a headlight, its surprising how many pairs of eyes glare out of the darkness back at you as you look to the left and right, with a bit of imaginative thinking, big cats etc it can help increase your pace a bit.



+1 for the headlight. Attaching an LED headtorch to my lid for nighttime cycling has been the single most effective thing I have for getting oncoming drivers to dip their headlights in good time. Plus if an oncoming driver is being tardy about dipping lights, a *swift* look towards the lights usually works a treat, as it means my light is shinging straight at the driver and the reaction is a dipping of headlights. Ok, so I look like a dork, but I don't care as light on lid is very effective.


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## MacLean (15 Mar 2010)

zacklaws said:


> When riding through wooded areas etc too with a headlight, its surprising how many pairs of eyes glare out of the darkness back at you as you look to the left and right, with a bit of imaginative thinking, big cats etc it can help increase your pace a bit.




LMAO, I was on a very quiet, 100% pitch black, only wide enough for one car road going through woods and was thinking exactly this! 

I know there have been various sightings of a 'large black cat' around the country and lol the thought of one jumping out from nowhere really got me moving!


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## tyred (15 Mar 2010)

Something which seems to have gone out of fashion but it I believe a good light mounted low down on the fork is better for picking out potholes and other road issues. It works best if it's aimed slightly high or roughly parallel to the ground and gives a good view of the road for a considerable distance. I mounted my halogen headlight to the dynamo bracket on the front forks and this works very well for seeing the road and have another reasonably bright LED light on the bars which I think makes it easier for motorists to see me as the other light is possibly too low for that.


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## BentMikey (15 Mar 2010)

MacLean said:


> Hmm yeh, my lights were about 20quid for a deal off amazon for the pair,
> 
> They seem pretty bright, but yeh not sure if they're gonna be bright enough....
> 
> I may go for it, but be ready to turn around when I hit the country roads if I dont feel they are bright enough.



Those will likely be dim lights, I would want super powerful ones. RSP Astrum, Blackburn Mars 4.0, Exposure Redeye, etc. for the rear.


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## Norm (15 Mar 2010)

wafflycat said:


> *Ok, so I look like a dork*, but I don't care as light on lid is very effective.


Dalek is the most frequent comment I get.


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## MacB (15 Mar 2010)

Norm said:


> Dalek is the most frequent comment I get.



what about when you're in your cycling gear?


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## Norm (15 Mar 2010)

MacB said:


> what about when you're in your cycling gear?


  

Payback time for this thread?


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## buzzy bee (15 Mar 2010)

Hi

I have to cycle on the lanes to get around, night is safe just in different ways, you can see lights approaching, which gives you warnign about them, unlike in the light.

I have an led light on the front and back of the bike, one on the helmet, and have in the past had a rechargeable torch like this:- http://www.expresstools.co.uk/images/product/main/sea2097.jpg clipped to my handles as a head light to see the pot holes and where the river is etc. Works quite well and they are not very heavy.

Cheers

Dave


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## Origamist (16 Mar 2010)

I wear a cap at night to limit dazzle, a Sam Browne belt, ankle band, have two powerful lights front and rear for redundancy (you don't what to be caught out) and ride a bit slower (animals scooting across the road can be a problem and it's harder to pick out pot-holes/obstacles in the dark when it's wet. I carry an extra warm layer in case of a serious mechanical, some food, water and I make sure my phone is charged.


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## Valy (18 Mar 2010)

zacklaws said:


> If you plan on riding unlit country roads at night, I would do a good slow recce in daylight first. The state of the roads presently are dangerous enough with all these potholes that have appeared this winter. Even with good lights it is difficult to tell shallow holes from deep holes till your on top of them. Another problem I have found on country roads, I can sometimes get disorientated to the edge of the road if it is not marked by a white line and have left it in the past on occasions
> 
> On the plus side, cars approaching from the front and rear can be spotted from a good distance especially when going round blind corners providing they have their lights on.
> 
> So go for it but keep your speeds down to give yourself time to react to these potholes and anything else which may suddenly pop up in front of you, for example, *ninja joggers*, dog walkers, animals etc


I lol'd!


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## jig-sore (19 Mar 2010)

tyred said:


> Something which seems to have gone out of fashion but it I believe a good light mounted low down on the fork is better for picking out potholes and other road issues. It works best if it's aimed slightly high or roughly parallel to the ground and gives a good view of the road for a considerable distance. I mounted my halogen headlight to the dynamo bracket on the front forks and this works very well for seeing the road and have another reasonably bright LED light on the bars which I think makes it easier for motorists to see me as the other light is possibly too low for that.



+1

i have a home made bracket (aluminium rod with a hole it one end) mounted to my front mudguard mounting right next to the front Axel. i mount my hope vision 1 down there when it's foggy.


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## mayfieldga (2 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> How good are your lights........................
> 
> What have you got. Unlit roads you'll be wanting something very bright - e.g. Hope Vision 1, or a 'high power LED torch' type light, and rears good quality ones like Smart superflash, Blackburn Mars 3 or 4 etc. etc. Also have a backup light as well on front and rear.



How about the possibility of animal attacks at night. I am thinking 360 during the day, but at night, I am thinking how to protect myself from the four legged creatures.


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## mayfieldga (3 Jul 2022)

zacklaws said:


> If you plan on riding unlit country roads at night, I would do a good slow recce in daylight first. The state of the roads presently are dangerous enough with all these potholes that have appeared this winter. Even with good lights it is difficult to tell shallow holes from deep holes till your on top of them. Another problem I have found on country roads, I can sometimes get disorientated to the edge of the road if it is not marked by a white line and have left it in the past on occasions
> 
> On the plus side, cars approaching from the front and rear can be spotted from a good distance especially when going round blind corners providing they have their lights on.
> 
> So go for it but keep your speeds down to give yourself time to react to these potholes and anything else which may suddenly pop up in front of you, for example, ninja joggers, dog walkers, animals etc



Oh yes the animals. Where I live in middle Georgia, there are some wild animals. I hope to be able to maintain sufficient 360 for those things. Oh, for my area, wonder if anyone considered scenarios where some not so good ole boys may see you as a victim. I am thinking of preparations for feeling intensities of stops turns and other sounds to perhaps have a heads up for those also and may breaking for the woods early to make for a smaller target.


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## fossyant (3 Jul 2022)

12 year old thread ? What local wildlife do you have in Georgia ? Nothing worth worrying about in the UK.


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## pete drans (3 Jul 2022)

MacLean said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I cant decide on this. Im planning on doing lejog and can only do my large 50miler+ runs at the weekends, so during the week i am limited to 6:45pm and onwards, which usually means its dark.... But i need to train.
> 
> ...



What about a set of rollers or a turbo trainer


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## Peter Salt (3 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> How about the possibility of animal attacks at night. I am thinking 360 during the day, but at night, I am thinking how to protect myself from the four legged creatures.





fossyant said:


> 12 year old thread ? What local wildlife do you have in Georgia ? Nothing worth worrying about in the UK.


I'm not sure what's the problem with digging out an old thread, that already has a lot of useful replies, instead of starting a new one. Makes sense to me.

Been to Georgia, without a bike though. Wildlife is aplenty: wild boar, deer, wolfs and bears. Out of these the boars are by far the worst. I think what people do is make sure that they can be heard - fit the bikes with bells and the like so the animals keep away. Most dangerous thing in Gorgia was the rakija


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## nagden (3 Jul 2022)

I always cycle early in the morning. This means my winter rides start off in the dark. I have invested in some good lights front and back and wear a reflective gilet. Never had any problems and have seen some fantastic wildlife as the day breaks. Enjoy.


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## roubaixtuesday (3 Jul 2022)

I think perhaps @mayfieldga should worry less about the effect of animals in the woods and more about the effect of those special mushrooms.


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## Mike_P (3 Jul 2022)

Lights that are easily switchable between luminance levels are good, you need to see the road surface clearly but at the same time avoid blinding anyone passing on either direction Halfords have a range that have an optional handlebar control.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

MacLean said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I cant decide on this. Im planning on doing lejog and can only do my large 50miler+ runs at the weekends, so during the week i am limited to 6:45pm and onwards, which usually means its dark.... But i need to train.
> 
> ...



I've cycled thousands of kilometres on unlit roads in the UK and Germany; as others have said it's often safer than in daylight: I can see cars coming further away, often long before they know I'm there, and when I had double headlights they tended to assume I was a tractor and pull rapidly into gateways...


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> How about the possibility of animal attacks at night. I am thinking 360 during the day, but at night, I am thinking how to protect myself from the four legged creatures.



I know the UK has changed since I left; are the squirrels more aggressive?


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## nickyboy (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I know the UK has changed since I left; are the squirrels more aggressive?



Badgers...

This is a major reason I don't ride at night. Around here there are loads of badgers (up to five in my garden) and if I'm going downhill at 30mph and one jumps out it's going to end badly for me


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

nickyboy said:


> Badgers...
> 
> This is a major reason I don't ride at night. Around here there are loads of badgers (up to five in my garden) and if I'm going downhill at 30mph and one jumps out it's going to end badly for me



Okay, fair comment; I stand corrected. 

I didn't realise a Badger was big enough to do that much damage, but equally I'm sure I don't reach 30mph / 50km/h very often, least of all at night.


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## Sea of vapours (3 Jul 2022)

A mere rabbit is big enough to do a fair bit of damage if collided with at anything much beyond walking pace, in that they might easily throw you off the bike. Rabbits weigh something like 2kg. Badgers, on the other hand, the sort found in the UK, are in the 16-18kg range, so something in the medium sized dog range, with very sturdy bodies and short legs. Definitely a very bad thing to hit whilst on a bike. 

Not terribly good for the badger either of course. 

Honey badgers are only about 2/3 of that, but thankfully not prone to wandering around the dark, country lanes of the UK since any collision with one of those would probably annoy it and that's not something you'd want to do to a honey badger


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## Mike_P (3 Jul 2022)

I remember an evening ride where the local wildlife were not bothered by my presence including a couple of birds were flying alongside. Then a car appeared


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## Poacher (3 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> Oh yes the animals. Where I live in middle Georgia, there are some wild animals. I hope to be able to maintain sufficient 360 for those things. Oh, for my area, wonder if anyone considered scenarios where some not so good ole boys may see you as a victim. I am thinking of preparations for feeling intensities of stops turns and other sounds to perhaps have a heads up for those also and may breaking for the woods early to make for a smaller target.





Peter Salt said:


> I'm not sure what's the problem with digging out an old thread, that already has a lot of useful replies, instead of starting a new one. Makes sense to me.
> 
> Been to Georgia, without a bike though. Wildlife is aplenty: wild boar, deer, wolfs and bears. Out of these the boars are by far the worst. I think what people do is make sure that they can be heard - fit the bikes with bells and the like so the animals keep away. Most dangerous thing in Gorgia was the rakija


Hang about! Which Georgia are we discussing, the country or the US state?
If the latter, I'd definitely be more concerned about the "not so good ole boys".


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## Sharky (3 Jul 2022)

It's sad trawling through threads like this. So many riders who are no longer with us. Have they seen the light and gone to a better place?

Talking of lights though, I used to go training at night with eveready lights that hardly gave out any lumens. Just good enough to be seen by. Used to keep to main well lit roads. The roads then were a lot quieter than they are now. For the Merseysiders around, I was quite happy cycling along the East Lancs Road and felt quite safe!

In the last 20 yrs, commuted, often in the dark, but by now front lights are so much better and I'm not talking about the really expensive ones. Nearly all the led ones are bright enough to see the road clearly.

But now retired and no longer need to go out when it's dark. Although sometimes when I go out late afternoon I can be doing the last few miles in twilight.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

Sea of vapours said:


> Honey badgers are only about 2/3 of that, but thankfully not prone to wandering around the dark, country lanes of the UK since any collision with one of those would probably annoy it and that's not something you'd want to do to a honey badger



I've heard that as well, one clip I recall showed one chasing a fox down a pipe. Vicious critters if they're roused.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jul 2022)

Love riding at night, just watch out for killer cows


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## tyred (3 Jul 2022)

I used to ride a lot at night and favoured decent quality dynamo lamps. I enjoyed it but got out of the habit in the past few winters as the roads got busier and the local boy racers use them as race tracks some times.

I aim to try to get back into night training rides this winter to try and lose weight and get my fitness back following injury last winter.


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## classic33 (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I know the UK has changed since I left; are the squirrels more aggressive?


Well, this sort of thing





has led to this...




But they still only two legs.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> Well, this sort of thing
> View attachment 651383
> 
> has led to this...
> ...



I knew Greys were driving out the Reds in the UK but I didn't realise it was like that.


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## Sharky (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I knew Greys were driving out the Reds in the UK but I didn't realise it was like that.



They could do with some Greys in Ukraine!


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jul 2022)

I ride in urban settings: a major wildlife hazard after dusk are foxes.
I think they are attracted by bike lights, like dogs.
Once I wanted to try out new bike lights, so I rode through my local, unlit, park.
Never again, a dozen dogs started to bark at me.
The new lights were not good enough: I couldn't see the dogs!


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> I ride in urban settings: a major wildlife hazard after dusk are foxes.
> I think they are attracted by bike lights, like dogs.
> Once I wanted to try out new bike lights, so I rode through my local, unlit, park.
> Never again, a dozen dogs started to bark at me.
> The new lights were not good enough: I couldn't see the dogs!



I have had trouble with farm dogs. I saw someone deal with them in an interesting way: there was a dog in the road in front of a farm. As he approached; he accelerated directly towards it and as he was almost on top of the still barking (and rather large dog), he stood up suddenly and roared at it.
I've never seen a dog move so fast.


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## classic33 (3 Jul 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> I have had trouble with farm dogs. I saw someone deal with them in an interesting way: there was a dog in the road in front of a farm. As he approached; he accelerated directly towards it and as he was almost on top of the still barking (and rather large dog), he stood up suddenly and roared at it.
> I've never seen a dog move so fast.


I've used the sudden increase in size before, and a growl, which seemed to put the dog off wanting to get closer.

Glad I'm not the only one doing it.


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## Andy in Germany (3 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> I've used the sudden increase in size before, and a growl, which seemed to put the dog off wanting to get closer.
> 
> Glad I'm not the only one doing it.



In your case I suspect the scythe helps too.


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## Ian H (3 Jul 2022)

Having ridden events through the night several times this year, I can say that it's fine with decent lights, on the grounds that I'm not dead or injured as a result (this may not amount to scientific proof of safety).


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## mayfieldga (3 Jul 2022)

Poacher said:


> Hang about! Which Georgia are we discussing, the country or the US state?
> If the latter, I'd definitely be more concerned about the "not so good ole boys".



yep middle to southern state georgia. 
While use lights and noise. Will also use senses to determine when not so good ole boys may see me as a victim. Will listen for quick hard stops turns, noise, etc. and make it into the woods with lights off and night vision on.


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## mayfieldga (3 Jul 2022)

nickyboy said:


> Badgers...
> 
> This is a major reason I don't ride at night. Around here there are loads of badgers (up to five in my garden) and if I'm going downhill at 30mph and one jumps out it's going to end badly for me



I am guessing lights night vision and gun.


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## mayfieldga (3 Jul 2022)

Poacher said:


> Hang about! Which Georgia are we discussing, the country or the US state?
> If the latter, I'd definitely be more concerned about the "not so good ole boys".



I thought I did reply. Georgia state of. Yep, not so good ole boys may be a problem also. Will listen for quick turns, sharps sounds, not so good voices, turn off lights, make it into the woods, with lights off and night vision. Thinking will have to prepare with gun for both animals and those not so good ole boys, but just to protect me and bicycle, not the rest.


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## classic33 (3 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> yep middle to southern state georgia.
> While use lights and noise. Will also use senses to determine when not so good ole boys may see me as a victim. Will listen for quick hard stops turns, noise, etc. and make it into the woods with lights off and night vision on.


You'll be looking at 20-30 minutes for normal vision to return once you turn your lights out. Night vision 30 minutes upward, before you start getting anything that resembles "night vision".


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## mayfieldga (4 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> You'll be looking at 20-30 minutes for normal vision to return once you turn your lights out. Night vision 30 minutes upward, before you start getting anything that resembles "night vision".



wonder if that is with latest gear? Wondering also with lights heading away from me and not in my face will alter that time? I guess I will have to try to put together my preparations as wisely as possible.


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## Solocle (5 Jul 2022)

I tend to move to main roads late at night.

Less chance of a wheel eating pothole, still low enough traffic for comfort (and better sight lines).










Your mileage may vary


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> I am guessing lights night vision and gun.



Just the first for the UK. Easy to see badgers with your lights if they are on the road.


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## Alex321 (5 Jul 2022)

mayfieldga said:


> wonder if that is with latest gear? Wondering also with lights heading away from me and not in my face will alter that time? I guess I will have to try to put together my preparations as wisely as possible.



"Latest gear" makes no difference - it is your eyes & brain that are decisive. No "better" lights can alter that.

It will make a difference just how bright the lights are - and obviously, pointing away from you appears less bright to you than ones shining in your face, but the above advice was based on having lights bright enough to enable you to see what you are riding on well enough to actually ride it safely. 

But TBH, if having to douse your lights and hide off the road is an actual concern with a significant possibility, then I wouldn't be riding alone there anyhow. But fortunately, we really don't have much to worry about that way here in the UK.


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## MontyVeda (5 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> "Latest gear" makes no difference - it is your eyes & brain that are decisive. No "better" lights can alter that.
> 
> It will make a difference just how bright the lights are - and obviously, pointing away from you appears less bright to you than ones shining in your face, but the above advice was based on having lights bright enough to enable you to see what you are riding on well enough to actually ride it safely.
> 
> But TBH, if having to douse your lights and hide off the road is an actual concern with a significant possibility, then I wouldn't be riding alone there anyhow. But fortunately, we really don't have much to worry about that way here in the UK.



I think he means actual night vision...


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## Alex321 (5 Jul 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> I think he means actual night vision...



You are probably right. He was responding to the post from Classic33, but reading back, I think *that* post was misunderstanding what the OP had previously said.


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## Dogtrousers (5 Jul 2022)

The OP hasn't been seen since 2017. Their last recorded words were "I am just going for a ride on an unlit country road at night, and I may be some time."


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jul 2022)

View: https://youtu.be/pDlZLsJJkVA


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## classic33 (5 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> You are probably right. He was responding to the post from Classic33, but reading back, I think *that* post was misunderstanding what the OP had previously said.


Not misunderstood, just think the two threads are complete windups, at present.

If night vision goggle had been mentioned by me, what would he have upped it to?


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## craigwend (5 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> Not misunderstood, just think the two threads are complete windups, at present.
> 
> If night vision goggle had been mentioned by me, what would he have upped it to?



Glad it's not just me who thinks threads are wind-ups... 

Preying on the good folk of CC and their helpful suggestions


Ps I like riding at night in the rural area I live, can see a lot more when a full moon, the ride seems different - often feels faster, but always slower on Strava and feels longer, doing regular routes helps with dodging potholes


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## mayfieldga (6 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> "Latest gear" makes no difference - it is your eyes & brain that are decisive. No "better" lights can alter that.
> 
> It will make a difference just how bright the lights are - and obviously, pointing away from you appears less bright to you than ones shining in your face, but the above advice was based on having lights bright enough to enable you to see what you are riding on well enough to actually ride it safely.
> 
> But TBH, if having to douse your lights and hide off the road is an actual concern with a significant possibility, then I wouldn't be riding alone there anyhow. But fortunately, we really don't have much to worry about that way here in the UK.



Just looking at possible scenarios with not so good ole boys in rural areas with lots of woods and possible ways to avoid problems. Will keep the light thing in mind though.


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## steveindenmark (28 Aug 2022)

I have a 20km commute to work and I start at 6am. I live in the the deepest Danish countryside. I ride it most days winter and summer. I pass through 2 small villages. Otherwise it is literally pitch black. The most vehicles I see is probably 5.

I always travel with 3 rear lights. The chances of 3 rear lights going out on one ride is very rare. As soon as I notice one has gone out. I charge them all.

I have 2 front lights. One dynamo and one battery. I also have a spare in a bag. I have just bought a Magicshine Monteer 6500S v.2 front light. It was expensive but it works so well and has a long run time.

I have a reflective helmet and customised viz vest. There is reflective stuff all over the bike.

I have done all I can to make myself visible both at night and in daylight. What else can you do. There are no guarantees that the driver is looking out for you. I was taken off in the dark in 2020. Mind you. He was drunk.

I love riding in the dark. It does not frighten me. Even now, after the accident In fact you can usually see cars earlier in the dark than in daylight. If you see headlights coming from behind (I have a mirror) you can always get off the road and let them pass.


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## ColinJ (28 Aug 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> Even now, after the accident In fact you can usually see cars earlier in the dark than in daylight. If you see headlights coming from behind (I have a mirror) *you can always get off the road and let them pass*.


Not on some of the ultra narrow lanes here, bordered by steep-sided 'Devon Banks'! 

My nephew was chatting to some locals and they said to watch out for those roads after the pubs shut...


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## steveindenmark (28 Aug 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Not on some of the ultra narrow lanes here, bordered by steep-sided 'Devon Banks'!
> 
> My nephew was chatting to some locals and they said to watch out for those roads after the pubs shut...



Yes I can appreciate that. We cycled in Cornwall and travelled on roads where you had to back track to a gap or pull your bike up a bank. Those roads are not generally that common outside of Devon and Cornwall. Certainly not where I live.


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## Petrichorwheels (30 Aug 2022)

nickyboy said:


> Badgers...
> 
> This is a major reason I don't ride at night. Around here there are loads of badgers (up to five in my garden) and if I'm going downhill at 30mph and one jumps out it's going to end badly for me



overcautious perhaps?
I was leading a ride during daylight once - a deer jumped across our path just in front. May have been fatal for one of us if we'd been further ahead.
Deer aren't I think nocturnal.
I'd rather run into a badger than have a deer hit me.
Life always has a certain amount of danger - you're a long time dead.
I love nightriding.


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## Mo1959 (30 Aug 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> overcautious perhaps?
> I was leading a ride during daylight once - a deer jumped across our path just in front. May have been fatal for one of us if we'd been further ahead.
> Deer aren't I think nocturnal.
> I'd rather run into a badger than have a deer hit me.
> ...



The traffic levels during the day have risen so much that I am seriously considering night rides after dark. I think any drivers who are still on the roads later are inclined to pass more cautiously plus you can see them coming from further away.


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## ColinJ (30 Aug 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> The traffic levels during the day have risen so much that I am seriously considering night rides after dark. I think any drivers who are still on the roads later are inclined to pass more cautiously plus you can see them coming from further away.


Is there much drink/drug driving up there these days? If so then night rides might be more risky?


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## Mo1959 (30 Aug 2022)

ColinJ said:


> Is there much drink/drug driving up there these days? If so then night rides might be more risky?



I don’t think so. I suppose you still get the odd idiot that might risk it but it’s certainly not common.


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## Petrichorwheels (30 Aug 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> The traffic levels during the day have risen so much that I am seriously considering night rides after dark. I think any drivers who are still on the roads later are inclined to pass more cautiously plus you can see them coming from further away.



yep you can see them from way way ahead.
It's also arguable that you are more visible with two or three good rear flashers than during the day.
On my night rides I have found that drivers are maybe more careful than during the day - maybe because part of them is thinking "what the ***s that doing out at this time of night? As Andy said, if you have a powerful front light, drivers also tend to slow/take care as they think some sort of vehicle is approaching them. I've notived their hesitancy, ie care, a fair few times.


ColinJ said:


> Is there much drink/drug driving up there these days? If so then night rides might be more risky?



Am not an expert on Scotland (is that where Mo is?) but I think there's been a strong decline in drunk driving over the last few years. I'd be more concerned about drunk drivers on the fringes of urban areas than in deep country. I tend to be wary of Friday/Saturday nights as I tend to think serious drunk driving is mainly a youth thing these days.
You can nightride for miles without seeing another thing. And one advantage over day - you can kinda see behind you from the lights thrown onto the road. Plus hear things more clearly.


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## tyred (30 Aug 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> I don’t think so. I suppose you still get the odd idiot that might risk it but it’s certainly not common.



The biggest danger here is the wannabe rally drivers.


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## CXRAndy (30 Aug 2022)

Night riding is about having decent lights to illuminate your way. I have on my ebike a SuperNova M99 Pro. It is literally like a car headlight, comes with high beam, dipped and daytime running. All super white LEDs.


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## Petrichorwheels (30 Aug 2022)

German standard lights is what you need.
StVZO
As in certain things from B&M or, more humbly, sometimes Lidl.
No idea what it means - probably some string of german words long enough to light the stopping distance of a nocturnal supertanker.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Aug 2022)

Love night riding on unlit lanes, one of the best times to be out, and often quite magical.


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## Andy in Germany (30 Aug 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> German standard lights is what you need.
> StVZO
> As in certain things from B&M or, more humbly, sometimes Lidl.
> No idea what it means - *probably some string of german words long enough to light the stopping distance of a nocturnal supertanker.*



Almost:
Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung​
Basically the legal federal norm for road vehicles. All bikes theoretically need to fulfil this, Mountain bikes don't but they have a sticker saying this on the frame when new, so it's then your responsibility as the rider.


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## HLaB (30 Aug 2022)

Lol, I keep on displacing the 'on' and think its bad grammar: 'Riding unlight on country roads at night' is suicide; night time riding with good lights certainly isn't


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## steveindenmark (31 Aug 2022)




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## MontyVeda (31 Aug 2022)

tyred said:


> The biggest danger here is the wannabe rally drivers.



That's my biggest fear on the unlit lanes at night. Almost got taken out a few years back by some wally taking the racing line.


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## tyred (31 Aug 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> That's my biggest fear on the unlit lanes at night. Almost got taken out a few years back by some wally taking the racing line.



It's not the problem it once was but there is a culture here of young people acting the idiot on minor roads in old scrap cars, number plates removed and just dump them if anything goes wrong. 

Nowadays they seem to have more money and use things like Ford Sierras, Opel Omegas, Lexus IS200s, BMWs or any other old rear wheel drive car for drifting, donuts and burnouts and some practice on public roads. Not usual to find all the skid marks and black circles at junctions. Even saw someone acting the idiot in an E21 BMW and they are very pricey these days.


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## lazybloke (31 Aug 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> That's my biggest fear on the unlit lanes at night. Almost got taken out a few years back by some wally taking the racing line.


Hell no, the glare of headlamps and the noise of an engine (particularly if being thrashed) are really very obvious when you're alone on a silent, dark lane. If you do feel at risk, you can adjust your line & speed, or can even find a place to stop.


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## Dogtrousers (31 Aug 2022)

tyred said:


> Even saw someone acting the idiot in an E21 BMW and they are very pricey these days.


Do you suppose he paid for it?


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## MontyVeda (31 Aug 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Hell no, the glare of headlamps and the noise of an engine (particularly if being thrashed) are really very obvious when you're alone on a silent, dark lane. If you do feel at risk, *you can adjust your line & speed, or can even find a place to stop.*



not on the incident I mentioned... it was only* the driver noticing me that avoided me being hit.

*of course i could have not gone out on the bike


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## lazybloke (1 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> not on the incident I mentioned... it was only* the driver noticing me that avoided me being hit.
> 
> *of course i could have not gone out on the bike



Sorry to hear that. 
Bad interactions with cars can happen day or night, but in the small hours there are almost NO interactions at all. To me, that feels far safer than say, rush hour.


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## cyberknight (1 Sep 2022)

its the noises in the hedgerows that give me the heebie jeebies, particularly on one stretch where im slogging uphill next to woodland and theirs crashing in the undergrowth .


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Sep 2022)

cyberknight said:


> its the noises in the hedgerows that give me the heebie jeebies, particularly on one stretch where im slogging uphill next to woodland and theirs crashing in the undergrowth .



That’ll be the Jabberwocky, you really don’t want to meet them at night.


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## cyberknight (1 Sep 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> That’ll be the Jabberwocky, you really don’t want to meet them at night.



i know its liable to be a deer / sheep etc but its unsettling especially when your crawling up a hill and couldnt go faster unless i got a brown trouser boost !


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## taximan (1 Sep 2022)

I remember many years ago, our club were riding on the old ironstone railway near Rosedale, Yorkshire on a damp and misty night. Of course we did not have the benefit of super duper modern lighting systems but were using the old style lamps with 2.5 tungsten bulbs. Suddenly we saw a pair of luminous eyes peering at us out of the gloom and were so startled that we all finished up in a pile in the middle of the track. by this time there were several pairs of eyes looking at us. Eventually we plucked up the courage to charge towards them screaming like banshees  and the flock of sheep ran off into the night.


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## MontyVeda (1 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> Bad interactions with cars can happen day or night, but in the small hours there are almost NO interactions at all. To me, that feels far safer than say, rush hour.



I don't know what you're trying to argue against. I mention 'my' biggest fear when riding country lanes at night which is bourn out of experience. And you, for some reason feel inclined to tell me that I'm wrong. I've cycled a lot in rush hour and I don't feel in danger of some twonk hurtling round a corner on the wrong side of the road because it's never happened to me at rush hour.


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## IrishAl (1 Sep 2022)

My memorable experiences of night time commuting/training
Front light failure in the pitch black outside an old cemetery shortly after I'd been told it was the scene of a fatal road crash years before (turned out the cable from the battery had corroded)
Cycling downhill at 30+mph and blinded by car lights I hit a pothole and almost lost control. Thankfully I kept it upright but front wheel buckled and busted water bottle and tool bottle. In fairness the car lights were dipped but the brightness meant I couldn't see the road.

Some other observations....on a Cold winters day the roads can freeze up very quickly as the sun goes down. Oh and Fixing punctures in the dark isn't fun - maybe a head torch is one to consider.

Other than those events I do enjoy the quietness of the night time training,


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## Jody (1 Sep 2022)

tyred said:


> It's not the problem it once was but there is a culture here of young people acting the idiot on minor roads in old scrap cars, number plates removed and just dump them if anything goes wrong.
> 
> Nowadays they seem to have more money and use things like Ford Sierras, Opel Omegas, Lexus IS200s, BMWs or any other old rear wheel drive car for drifting, donuts and burnouts and some practice on public roads. Not usual to find all the skid marks and black circles at junctions. Even saw someone acting the idiot in an E21 BMW and they are very pricey these days.



Are you in Ireland by any chance?


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## tyred (1 Sep 2022)

Jody said:


> Are you in Ireland by any chance?



Yes.


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## Jody (1 Sep 2022)

tyred said:


> Yes.



Thought so when you mentioned what cars were being used. 

I folllow a facebook group based accross there and looks like you have quite a car scene. Reminiscent of the 90s in England and very much into anything from that era.

Its nice to see the enthusiasm. 

As you say though, it has its share of dangerous behaviour just the same as across here.


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## roley poley (1 Sep 2022)

I peddle to work to start at some wonky hours of the clock (postie)...the best time is leaving the house at 4.30 to arrive at 5.30.am...It.is almost traffic free... nice ........you hear cars being driven beyond their flight envelope round the estate ...ah......methinks an alternate route on the old single track country lane best right now.....OH this is nice ...a tunnel of hedge and tree in my headlight beam for an extra 10 mins detour...thanks lads in your zooming car i found a nicer way to work....


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## Ian H (1 Sep 2022)

In the middle of a 400k ride.


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## lazybloke (2 Sep 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> I don't know what you're trying to argue against. I mention 'my' biggest fear when riding country lanes at night which is bourn out of experience. And you, for some reason feel inclined to tell me that I'm wrong. I've cycled a lot in rush hour and I don't feel in danger of some twonk hurtling round a corner on the wrong side of the road because it's never happened to me at rush hour.


My objective was not to dismiss or belittle your experience, or to argue with you, but to give my different perspective if anyone is still considering the safety of riding at night. 


It is safe? 
Your "no" and my "yes" are both correct, because we are using different criteria to reach an answer.
Other readers will need to do the research and work it out for themselves. Hopefully there are some useful pointers in these pages.


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## MontyVeda (2 Sep 2022)

lazybloke said:


> ...
> It is safe?
> *Your "no"* and my "yes" are both correct, because we are using different criteria to reach an answer.
> Other readers will need to do the research and work it out for themselves. Hopefully there are some useful pointers in these pages.



I didn't say it's not safe. I expressed one of my concerns when riding unlit country lanes at night.


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## froze (22 Dec 2022)

There's very little if anything I can add to what everyone has said repeatedly.

You need a pair of good front lights, a handlebar light with about 1,200 lumens or so, though typically you won't need more than 800 lumens unless you have difficulty seeing in the dark, but the extra is in case of rain, if possible find a light with aimed optics; the second light needs to be on the helmet, about 800 lumens running at 400 or so, with a helmet light you can move your head and light up whatever you look at including cars at intersections.

Taillights, one on the helmet and one on the seat bag or seat post, each running at around 250 lumens, one on steady and the other on strobe or flash if where you live it's legal to use a flashing rear light, if not steady is fine.

Then of course you should wear a reflective safety vest, reflective tape added to the helmet, and a reflective leg bands.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Dec 2022)

froze said:


> There's very little if anything I can add to what everyone has said repeatedly.
> 
> You need a pair of good front lights, a handlebar light with about 1,200 lumens or so, though typically you won't need more than 800 lumens unless you have difficulty seeing in the dark, but the extra is in case of rain, if possible find a light with aimed optics; the second light needs to be on the helmet, about 800 lumens running at 400 or so, with a helmet light you can move your head and light up whatever you look at including cars at intersections.
> 
> ...



Thankfully locally all I need is my regular dynamo lights and... well that's all, now I come to think of it, although the local police apparently get upset if you don't have wheel reflectors, so I make sure I have those.

I've never understood the need for reflectors in wheels; it's not like cars have reflectors down the side as as standard.


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## Alex321 (22 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thankfully locally all I need is my regular dynamo lights and... well that's all, now I come to think of it, although the local police apparently get upset if you don't have wheel reflectors, so I make sure I have those.
> 
> I've never understood the need for reflectors in wheels; it's not like cars have reflectors down the side as as standard.



Actually, they do. All modern cars have side reflectors, usually on the front wing, amber. They are required on all vehicles manufactured since 1986, with certain exceptions.


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## Mike_P (22 Dec 2022)

Driving I have seen the benefits of wheel reflectors on bicycles particularly at roundabouts where it has been the those that have caught my attention more than than the front light. One oddity I have noticed also noticed recently is the amount of cyclists during daytime with a lit front light but an unlit rear.


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## Solocle (22 Dec 2022)

Mike_P said:


> Driving I have seen the benefits of wheel reflectors on bicycles particularly at roundabouts where it has been the those that have caught my attention more than than the front light. One oddity I have noticed also noticed recently is the amount of cyclists during daytime with a lit front light but an unlit rear.


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## roubaixtuesday (22 Dec 2022)

Solocle said:


> View attachment 671970



You can get an even better effect by buying loads of glowsticks and drinking the contents.


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## cougie uk (22 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thankfully locally all I need is my regular dynamo lights and... well that's all, now I come to think of it, although the local police apparently get upset if you don't have wheel reflectors, so I make sure I have those.
> 
> I've never understood the need for reflectors in wheels; it's not like cars have reflectors down the side as as standard.



Wheel reflectors are great at junctions - the bike might be side onto a cars headlights - bike lights are often very directional - so very visible from the front or behind - but less so to the side. 
I love my reflective trim on the tyres at night - and run some lights on the valve caps that flash - they're great for extra visibility.


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## Scottish Scrutineer (23 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Actually, they do. All modern cars have side reflectors, usually on the front wing, amber. They are required on all vehicles manufactured since 1986, with certain exceptions.


Those aren't reflectors, they are side repeaters for the indicators


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## Alex321 (23 Dec 2022)

Scottish Scrutineer said:


> Those aren't reflectors, they are side repeaters for the indicators



No, side reflectors are required by law. Indicator repeaters are optional.

They can, of course, be designed to be retro-reflective when not illuminated, and so serve both functions - just as the rear lights also serve as the required rear retro-reflectors.


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## Jody (23 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> They are required on all vehicles manufactured since 1986, with certain exceptions.



Are you sure it's law to have amber side reflectors after 86?

It's a new one on me.


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## Alex321 (23 Dec 2022)

Jody said:


> Are you sure it's law to have amber side reflectors after 86?
> 
> It's a new one on me.



I was going by these
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/1/made
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/17/made

But re-reading Schedule 1 I'm not so sure. I think an ordinary domestic car may be classed as a "passenger vehicle", as the definition of that (refers to Construction and Use Regulations) is :


passenger vehiclea vehicle constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects.

And Passenger vehicles are excepted from that requirement. When I first read it, I thought passenger vehicles meant buses & minibuses.


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## tinywheels (23 Dec 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Wheel reflectors are great at junctions - the bike might be side onto a cars headlights - bike lights are often very directional - so very visible from the front or behind - but less so to the side.
> I love my reflective trim on the tyres at night - and run some lights on the valve caps that flash - they're great for extra visibility.



I've got those flashing valve lights, they are very good.


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## Neilka (24 Dec 2022)

It's safe to ride at night, the message is clear. BE SEEN! 
Light yourself up. Lights, reflectors, reflective clothing, anything goes. As long as you can be seen.
Most of us drive cars as well as riding bikes and we all see the difference between some donkey riding at night with no lights on a dual carriageway and someone lit up like a Christmas tree!
Who was it that said "Be safe, be seen!"?
Merry Christmas to all 🥳


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## Oldhippy (24 Dec 2022)

A front light and a back light, 50 odd years of cycling in all road situations, no day glo, no helmet, normal clothes, law abiding and never been killed or knocked off. Confidence is everything!


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## Andy in Germany (24 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> No, side reflectors are required by law. *Indicator repeaters are optional.*



As is using them, apparently.


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## MontyVeda (24 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> *A front light and a back light*, 50 odd years of cycling in all road situations, no day glo, no helmet, normal clothes, law abiding and never been killed or knocked off. Confidence is everything!



Same here... although i did recently buy one of those 360 reflective rain jackets from Mountain Warehouse; charcoal grey in normal light but quite bright silver when a light hits it. I didn't buy it because it's reflective. I bought it because it was a good 'cycling' fit, on sale and needed a new water resistant overcoat


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## Andy in Germany (24 Dec 2022)

The problem with "Be safe Be Seen" is that it's used to put pressure on cyclists to wear all kinds of hi viz, and thus absolve motorists of blame for poor driving "He only had two lights and a hi viz vest; how was I supposed to see him?" but also because the connection between the two isn't as strong as people like to claim. Stuttgart's trams are massive, canary yellow and brightly lit at night, yet drivers manage to constantly not see them and cause accidents.


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## Neilka (24 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> The problem with "Be safe Be Seen" is that it's used to put pressure on cyclists to wear all kinds of hi viz, and thus absolve motorists of blame for poor driving "He only had two lights and a hi viz vest; how was I supposed to see him?" but also because the connection between the two isn't as strong as people like to claim. Stuttgart's trams are massive, canary yellow and brightly lit at night, yet drivers manage to constantly not see them and cause accidents.



There's my advantage of living in "little" Warendorf. No trams 😉


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## MontyVeda (24 Dec 2022)

Absolutely @Andy in Germany ...excuses like "I didn't see them" or "They came out of nowhere" cannot be viable defences and if used should warrant an additional charge of driving without due care and attention.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Dec 2022)

Neilka said:


> There's my advantage of living in "little" Warendorf. No trams 😉



The trams aren't the problem...


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## biggs682 (25 Dec 2022)

Anything that helps you get seen is good.
The reflective band on tyre side walls is great


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## roley poley (25 Dec 2022)

ankle bands...their movement is an eye catching feature which indicates a cyclist ..and they keep my pant legs out the chain


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## presta (25 Dec 2022)

roley poley said:


> ankle bands...keep my pant legs out the chain


Back in the days before I switched to using Ron Hill Bikesters I used to ride in polycotton walking trousers, and I sewed some velcro staps on the bottoms similar to the ones on waterproof overtrousers. Very convenient as you get on & off the bike, you can tighten & release them in seconds.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Dec 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Wheel reflectors are great at junctions



If they are already swinging round the junction (you are waiting at) wrong side of road you’ll be lucky if they notice.


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## ebikeerwidnes (25 Dec 2022)

Those valve lights seem like a good idea

Ones I just looked at have a lot of reviews saying the batteries only last an hour or so - which is hopeless

Seem like a contended for having a self generated power supply - are there any like that?


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## Solocle (25 Dec 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Those valve lights seem like a good idea
> 
> Ones I just looked at have a lot of reviews saying the batteries only last an hour or so - which is hopeless
> 
> Seem like a contended for having a self generated power supply - are there any like that?



Well, the energy contained in a 32x700c tyre at 60 psi is 2.85 kJ, or 0.8 Watt-hours.

While a turbine attached to the valve could generate power, it wouldn't be practical.


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## Ian H (25 Dec 2022)

roley poley said:


> ankle bands...their movement is an eye catching feature which indicates a cyclist ..and they keep my pant legs out the chain



Most if not all cycling shoes seen to have reflective patches on the heel. Not actually a legal alternative to pedal reflectors in the UK, but in practice as effective.


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## ebikeerwidnes (25 Dec 2022)

Ian H said:


> Most if not all cycling shoes seen to have reflective patches on the heel. Not actually a legal alternative to pedal reflectors in the UK, but in practice as effective.



I always thought that they might often be more effective
pedals can get splattered by mud but shoes are generally kept cleaner
Also your foot often obscures the pedal reflector but the back of you shoe is pretty much always visible

of course - a proper reflector reflects more light - so there is that!

at the end of the day - I go with both if I can!


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## ebikeerwidnes (25 Dec 2022)

Oh - on another point

my front tyre does not have a relflective strip - is there any paint or stick on strips that can be used to make one without damaging the tyre??


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## Poacher (25 Dec 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Oh - on another point
> 
> my front tyre does not have a relflective strip - is there any paint or stick on strips that can be used to make one without damaging the tyre??



Just use spoke reflectors instead; they're at least as effective.


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## classic33 (25 Dec 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Oh - on another point
> 
> my front tyre does not have a relflective strip - is there any paint or stick on strips that can be used to make one without damaging the tyre??


There was Volvo LifePaint
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/latest-effort-from-volvo-life-paint.177146/

Disappeared the same year it appeared.


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## Solocle (26 Dec 2022)

classic33 said:


> There was Volvo LifePaint
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/latest-effort-from-volvo-life-paint.177146/
> 
> Disappeared the same year it appeared.



I used some 3M tape on the frame of my commuter.


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## classic33 (26 Dec 2022)

Solocle said:


> I used some 3M tape on the frame of my commuter.
> 
> View attachment 672325


At least that one is still being produced.


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## PaulSB (26 Dec 2022)

Ian H said:


> *Most if not all cycling shoes seen to have reflective patches on the heel. *Not actually a legal alternative to pedal reflectors in the UK, but in practice as effective.



Never seen a pair with reflective patches. Are you sure?


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## Ian H (26 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Never seen a pair with reflective patches. Are you sure?



A quick survey of mine shows six pairs with, one cheap Aldi/Lidl pair of MTB boots without.


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## Andy in Germany (26 Dec 2022)

Ian H said:


> Most if not all cycling shoes seen to have reflective patches on the heel. Not actually a legal alternative to pedal reflectors in the UK, but in practice as effective.



You can get cycling shoes?

Gosh.


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## cyberknight (26 Dec 2022)

reflectives are the way to go . this is a screenshot from my ring at 4.20 am


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## ebikeerwidnes (26 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> reflectives are the way to go . this is a screenshot from my ring at 4.20 am
> View attachment 672367



No a phrase I expected to hear today




ooooooh - a ring doorbell camera
you should have said!!!
(he said as he dragged his mind out of the gutter)

go on - some of you were also thinking that!!!


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> No a phrase I expected to hear today
> 
> 
> 
> ...



completely lost me there, its a ring security camera at the back of the house , taken a couple of weeks ago and you must have a warped mind as i have no idea what your on about .


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## PaulSB (27 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> reflectives are the way to go . this is a *screenshot from my ring at 4.20 am*
> View attachment 672367



Referring to your post below I had absolutely no idea what you meant by the bit in bold above. Never even occurred to me you were talking about a door bell/security camera or whatever.


cyberknight said:


> *completely lost me there,* its a ring security camera at the back of the house , taken a couple of weeks ago and you must have a warped mind as i have no idea what your on about .


I got the "joke," I didn't think it funny but the post from ebiker did at least explain you had referred to a door bell or similar. Until that point I hadn't a clue what "ring" you were referencing.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> reflectives are the way to go . this is a screenshot from my ring at 4.20 am
> View attachment 672367



You have a camera in your wedding ring?


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## Dogtrousers (27 Dec 2022)

I was wondering if was maybe some kind of 007 style spy camera worn on the finger.


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## Petrichorwheels (27 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> its the noises in the hedgerows that give me the heebie jeebies, particularly on one stretch where im slogging uphill next to woodland and theirs crashing in the undergrowth .



Sounds positively freudian.
Ever investigated?


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## Petrichorwheels (27 Dec 2022)

IrishAl said:


> Cycling downhill at 30+mph and blinded by car lights I hit a pothole and almost lost control. Thankfully I kept it upright but front wheel buckled and busted water bottle and tool bottle. In fairness the car lights were dipped but the brightness meant I couldn't see the road.



Potholes as much a danger as cars i think, probably a fair bit more, especially on rural downhills. You do definitely need good lights with a proper beam pattern.
Love night riding. Was out at 3.30 in the morning christmas day morn delivering cards for my mum in rural parts. Cars were fine, one driver apologised for stopping in the road - was himself doing a bit of furtive card dropping I think.


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## brommieinkorea (27 Dec 2022)

The brighter it is, the brighter lights need to be to be seen. So, if its real dark, your lights dont have to be as bright (tail lights) for you to be seen. That said,a good headlight still matters. Potentially much safer to cycle in the dark.


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You have a camera in your wedding ring?



actually my ring hasnt been worn in about a year as my hands have shrunk, keep meaning to get the ring altered , but haha


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## cyberknight (27 Dec 2022)

Petrichorwheels said:


> Sounds positively freudian.
> Ever investigated?



err no , we all know its probably just a deer or similar but i have been dive bombed by an owl and had to bunny hop a badger in that area .
The wildlife is out to get me !


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## brommieinkorea (27 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> err no , we all know its probably just a deer or similar but i have been dive bombed by an owl and had to bunny hop a badger in that area .
> The wildlife is out to get me !



Ran over a Opossum with the Brompton one evening. He kept on running so I hope he was o.k.


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## Petrichorwheels (27 Dec 2022)

brommieinkorea said:


> The brighter it is, the brighter lights need to be to be seen. So, if its real dark, your lights dont have to be as bright (tail lights) for you to be seen. That said,a good headlight still matters. Potentially much safer to cycle in the dark.



Good advice - despite this some choose to ride in daylight sporting lights brighter than the sun. As you say not much power at all needed at the back, just use 2 or 3. Front decent power but no need to compete with suns, just good beam pattern.


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## Oldhippy (27 Dec 2022)

Never understood the riding in full daylight with lights on thing even on long range cycle paths I see it.


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## Petrichorwheels (27 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> Never understood the riding in full daylight with lights on thing even on long range cycle paths I see it.



Particularly bad on cycling paths of course as if two-way you can get blinded by the nit approaching. My only explanation is that they are showing off/kit-tech bragging/fitting in with their cycling club ethos. Quite often see them sitting for a breather/feed in daylight deep rural parts on full power. Often wonder if their lights will fail on the dark way back (for sure they won't be carrying spare batteries) but then I am of course twisted.


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## Andy in Germany (27 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> Never understood the riding in full daylight with lights on thing even on long range cycle paths I see it.



I tend to leave my lights on all the time, with a hub dynamo I figure I may as well use the energy produced.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> Never understood the riding in full daylight with lights on thing even on long range cycle paths I see it.



Solar powered lights. Only work in daylight…


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## Scottish Scrutineer (29 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> No, side reflectors are required by law. Indicator repeaters are optional.
> 
> They can, of course, be designed to be retro-reflective when not illuminated, and so serve both functions - just as the rear lights also serve as the required rear retro-reflectors.



I think you'll find you are mistaken https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/7/made/data.pdf

That is unless you are in New South Wales....


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## Alex321 (29 Dec 2022)

Scottish Scrutineer said:


> I think you'll find you are mistaken https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/7/made/data.pdf
> 
> That is unless you are in New South Wales....



I already said I wasn't sure any more at post #136


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Dec 2022)

No.


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## Tom B (30 Dec 2022)

As many others have said no.

My commute takes me out into the sticks into the early hours.

I feel far safer than riding in the day, especially safer than riding into a low sun during the day which also occurs during a few weeks of the year for me.

Lights. Several they don't have to be super expensive, I have a big bright one and a couple of marker/secondary lights.


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## HLaB (31 Dec 2022)

> Is riding on unlight country roads at night suicide?​



Only when its likely to be icy. If it isn't icy with a decent set of lights you are more noticeable than you would have been in the daylight.


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