# Pavement



## harveymt (25 Feb 2014)

Do any of you cycle at any point on the pavement?

I never have and know it's against the highway code but I have just moved house and my commute has changed. It's a two lane road for most of the way and for say 75% of it there is a mixed use pavement for both cyclists and pedestrians or advisory cycle lanes. There are two crossroads, one of which is probably around the busiest in Belfast. The other is two lanes on one side but narrows to one lane on the other. The cycle lanes stop before these junctions and restart the other side. It looks like it would have been too much hassle to continue them through the junction so they've just stopped and started them where was convenient.

The first junction has a mixed use pavement approaching it so I'm going to use the pedestrian crossings to cross over that junction and rejoin the cycle on the other side. The second one is where I'm not so sure what to do.

There is a dedicated cycle lane at this bit which finishes before the junction and I don't know whether to risk staying on the road or to cycle on the pavement for this short stretch. If it was flat I'd be fine about staying on the road but it's up a steep hill so I'll be slowed right down on a section of road that's very busy with cars jostling for position.

Is it ok to cycle on the pavement for this stretch of road?


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## uclown2002 (25 Feb 2014)




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## Peter Armstrong (25 Feb 2014)

Only when im bunny hopping over a roundabout.


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## Spinney (25 Feb 2014)

I think most folks on here will say not to ride on the pavement.

But there may be other constructive suggestions - a link to the streetview of it might help?


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## shouldbeinbed (25 Feb 2014)

With your description, do what you gotta do to stay safe, but accept if the cops spot you you'll be lucky to get any sympathy and will probably pick up a fine for your trouble.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

If you have a genuine fear of riding on any particular stretch of road because of the traffic and so choose to ride on the pavement for the sake of your safety, and provided you ride carefully, i.e. slowly, around any pedestrians you encounter and show them consideration then long-standing Home Office advice to UK police forces, recently reiterated (Jan '14) by Robert Goodwill MP Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, is that plod should leave you well alone.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...oads-are-dangerous-minister-tells-police.html)

But you may need to learn all the references off by heart, and recite them to any PCSO who waddles past, and if need be refuse to pay the fixed penalty and spell out your case to a magistrate. (as happened hereabouts last year)


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

shouldbeinbed said:


> With your description, do what you gotta do to stay safe, but accept if the cops spot you you'll be lucky to get any sympathy and will probably pick up a fine for your trouble.


Please see my post. No one riding considerately on the pavement because they consider the road dangerous should ever get a fine.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

IMHO it's not possible to ride on the pavement considerately.
If you can't or don't want to use the road, get off and push!


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## Dan B (25 Feb 2014)

Not seeing why riding at walking pace is necessarily less considerate than pushing the bike at walking pace


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

Dan B said:


> Not seeing why riding at walking pace is necessarily less considerate than pushing the bike at walking pace


or indeed walking at walking pace carrying two or more large bags of shopping.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> IMHO it's not possible to ride on the pavement considerately.
> If you can't or don't want to use the road, get off and push!


IMHO you're not the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport nor a member of ACPO so, thank goodness, your opinion on the matter is utterly irrelevant.


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## DrLex (25 Feb 2014)

Yes; I daily ride along about 60m of pavement from the end of a shared path to the back gate of my workplace, which is opposite the town's police station. To date, no officer has seen fit to speak to me about my wilful
transgression.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

DrLex said:


> Yes; I daily ride along about 60m of pavement from the end of a shared path to the back gate of my workplace, which is opposite the town's police station. To date, no officer has seen fit to speak to me about my wilful
> transgression.


Come to da 'sham. Try it on a regular basis stretch of pavement less than 60m long not 500m from where I'm typing this. You'll get your collar felt. It's a 'scourge' according to the locals and thus a community policing priority.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> IMHO you're not the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport nor a member of ACPO so, thank goodness, your opinion on the matter is utterly irrelevant.


Neither are you, and so is yours!
You are just one of the few cyclists who want it all their own way. Cycling on the pavement is dangerous, if you can't see that you should stick to walking everywhere.
People like you want equal rights on the road, but think it's ok to to cycle where you like when it suits you.
And don't bang on about some rule# whatever! that was thought of by some overweight quaffing politician who has never cycled. Pavement cycling is a dangerous and stupid occupation.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> or indeed walking at walking pace carrying two or more large bags of shopping.


How the hell can you compare cycling on the pavement to carrying shopping?


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## MontyVeda (25 Feb 2014)

is someone in a shouty mood again?


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## DrLex (25 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> [...] You'll get your collar felt.[...]


No need; my tailor does that on request.
Luckily, when PoPo is rushing out on a shout or back in with the kettle cooling, I'm obviously not worth a tug...


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949634, member: 45"]Sloblock[/quote]
Are you Polish?


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949649, member: 45"]http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/jan/20/police-cycling-pavements[/quote]
So you like pavement cycling, so what?


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949684, member: 45"]No. Are you an activist?[/quote]
I've played a few roles in the past.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Neither are you, and so is yours!
> You are just one of the few cyclists who want it all their own way. Cycling on the pavement is dangerous, if you can't see that you should stick to walking everywhere.
> People like you want equal rights on the road, but think it's ok to to cycle where you like when it suits you.
> And don't bang on about some rule# whatever! that was thought of by some overweight quaffing politician who has never cycled. Pavement cycling is a dangerous and stupid occupation.





Roadrider48 said:


> How the hell can you compare cycling on the pavement to carrying shopping?


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949697, member: 45"]Oooh, I wish I had time for you to tell me all about it, but I need to pick bits of sock fluff from beneath my toenails.[/quote]
Ha ha ha!


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949694, member: 45"]So considerate pavement cycling is possible and is not at all dangerous.[/quote]
No it isn't!


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


>


Says it all really....


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Says it all really....


Indeed. It does.


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## buggi (25 Feb 2014)

its a good thing the cycle lanes aren't carried through the junction as you should be in primary position when going through the junction and a cycle lane would only give drivers the impression you should be in it.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949737, member: 45"]At the moment that's your opinion. If you want it to become anything else then you need to provide some evidence.[/quote]
Not only my opinion. Many others here have said as much.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949737, member: 45"]At the moment that's your opinion. If you want it to become anything else then you need to provide some evidence.[/quote]
What evidence do you want? I dunno....parents and pushchairs on the pavement, old people, disabled people, small children, people leaving shops or their houses. These are all groups of society that you wouldn't normally find walking in the road; that's why they use the pavement, where they can go about their business confident in the fact that they probably won't get run over....unless they're in your town of course!


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949833, member: 45"]No, they haven't. Many disagree with pavement cycling. I've yet to see anyone else claim that considerate pavement cycling is not possible _and_ that it's dangerous.

Anyway, my aunt thinks that cycling without a helmet is really really dangerous. She said she knows a lot of people who also think this.[/quote]
Considerate pavement cycling is some bulls*** that only exists in your head. There is no such thing!


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2949862, member: 45"]Evidence to support your claim that considerate pavement cycling is dangerous. Let's think... maybe some figures, or examples of incidents. That's the normal stuff that people use to justify their claims...[/quote]
I'm not normal, I only ride my bike on the road. Ha ha ha....oh dear!


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## 400bhp (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Considerate pavement cycling is some bulls*** that only exists in your head. There is no such thing!



Is it?

My 5 year old daughter cycles the mile to school. I also cycle with her around and about. What should I do? Let her cycle on the road?


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## snorri (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> What evidence do you want? I dunno....parents and pushchairs on the pavement, old people, disabled people, small children, people leaving shops or their houses. These are all groups of society that you wouldn't normally find walking in the road; that's why they use the pavement, where they can go about their business confident in the fact that they probably won't get run over....unless they're in your town of course!


It appears you have led a sheltered life and cannot visualise pavements without adjacent shops and houses, also devoid of pedestrian traffic for long periods of the day and even longer periods of the night.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Is it?
> 
> My 5 year old daughter cycles the mile to school. I also cycle with her around and about. What should I do? Let her cycle on the road?


I'm not saying put small children in the road. And you know that.
But pavement cycling is dangerous!


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

snorri said:


> It appears you have led a sheltered life and cannot visualise pavements without adjacent shops and houses, also devoid of pedestrian traffic for long periods of the day and even longer periods of the night.


It appears you talk crap!


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## Kookas (25 Feb 2014)

I use the pavement for very short stretches on one particular route of mine past Queen Elizabeth Hospital after coming through the University, where there's no accompanying road. When doing so, I slow right down; a mobility scooter is more dangerous.


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## Pat "5mph" (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> It appears you talk crap!


It appears you have never visited the outskirts of Glasgow: nobody walks here, the pavements are empty, apart from the occasional cyclist 
Not me btw


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## ManiaMuse (25 Feb 2014)

Get fitter so you can beast mode it up the hill on the road and not worry about the traffic behind you.

Use your judgment I'd say. If it is a busy, fast road with few houses and would be appropriate for share use just not marked, then perhaps it might be acceptable for a short distance. You might be safer on the road than you really think though.

Regarding pavement cycling in general, yes it does piss me off when people do it when I am walking, especially ninja cyclists and ones who ring their bell at me expecting me to jump out the way. The fact is pedestrians aren't as focused on the act of travelling as motorists and cyclists. Pedestrians are on their phones, texting, carrying shopping, daydreaming, young and old, some much slower than others, jogging, pushing prams, on scooters. They aren't in the same mindset as road users, they don't do shoulder checks or walk in predictable lines. It's not a place to be cycling in general, and that's even before you weigh up the potential of drivers reversing out of their drives not expecting you to come whizzing past where they can't see you.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

Pat "5mph" said:


> It appears you have never visited the outskirts of Glasgow: nobody walks here, the pavements are empty, apart from the occasional cyclist
> Not me btw


I was born in Glasgow!


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## RedRider (25 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> But pavement cycling is dangerous!


Is it the cracks between the slabs? Bring terrible bad luck so I hear.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

Kookas said:


> I use the pavement for very short stretches on one particular route of mine past Queen Elizabeth Hospital after coming through the University, where there's no accompanying road. When doing so, I slow right down; a mobility scooter is more dangerous.


Push your bike! People in mobility scooters have trouble walking.


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## Roadrider48 (25 Feb 2014)

RedRider said:


> Is it the cracks between the slabs? Bring terrible bad luck so I hear.


No, it's the cyclists bunny hopping over them that's the problem.


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## Kookas (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Push your bike! People in mobility scooters have trouble walking.



End of the day, a mobility scooter is being used on a footpath. It poses the same risk regardless of who uses it.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

Kookas said:


> End of the day, a mobility scooter is being used on a footpath. It poses the same risk regardless of who uses it.


You have a choice, they do not! 
Unless you have some problem with the disabled.


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## Kookas (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> You have a choice, they do not!



Tell me exactly: what problem am I posing to the pedestrians, riding at less than 10mph with care, that I would not pose if I were walking the bike?


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

Kookas said:


> Tell me exactly: what problem am I posing to the pedestrians, riding at less than 10mph with care, that I would not pose if I were walking the bike?


You really have to ask?


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## Sara_H (26 Feb 2014)

There are one or two places I apply a sensible use of the Boeteng Guidance in a variety of different circumstances. It isn't ideal, but then generally speaking, neither is the infrastructure available to cyclists

99% of the times you see a cyclist on a pavement, you're looking at an individual who has been let down by those responsible for the provision of safe transport infrastructure.


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## MontyVeda (26 Feb 2014)

I feel sorry for the OP.... such a silly can of worms and a silly immovable object....  Roadrider knows he's right, in spite of the fact he's not.

To the OP... do what you feel is safest for you and those around you. 

To the Shouty immovable object... :troll:


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I'm not saying put small children in the road. And you know that.
> But pavement cycling is dangerous!



Well, I kind of guessed you knew that but I couldn't be sure.

So, somewhere in your head, you've made a distinction between what is a safe pavement cyclist and what is a dangerous pavement cyclist. Care to define the tipping point?

For example, could the father who is pavement cycling with daughter be a step too far? Or the paperboy, or the granny ambling to the shops on her bike?

It's a shame we (you) think in these terms when if you look around, there aren't many people on the pavement walking outside town and city centres. This is largely to do with the perceived ease of car use and the antisocial manner that cars are driven. It certainly isn't a lot to do with some bimbling pavement cyclist. Would you agree?


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Well, I kind of guessed you knew that but I couldn't be sure.
> 
> So, somewhere in your head, you've made a distinction between what is a safe pavement cyclist and what is a dangerous pavement cyclist. Care to define the tipping point?
> 
> ...


My paperboy delivers using a longboard. Bikes are so last century. Oh yeah, and he is a gurl. And she doesn't deliver to us. We collect. But you catch my drift.

I'd rather see a pavement cyclist than see the same person driving a car on a local journey. Most of all I'd rather the speed and volume of traffic on local roads didn't intimidate people to such a degree that the only way they feel they can compete on equal terms is inside a tin box.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

A
[QUOTE 2950221, member: 45"]Seeing as you've not provided anything to support your claim I think the answer is yes.[/quote]
e you


400bhp said:


> Well, I kind of guessed you knew that but I couldn't be sure.
> 
> So, somewhere in your head, you've made a distinction between what is a safe pavement cyclist and what is a dangerous pavement cyclist. Care to define the tipping point?
> 
> ...


The tipping point is that there is no such thing as a safe pavement cyclist. You three are just talking bollocks, as usual. But carry on, you seem to enjoy it?


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> I feel sorry for the OP.... such a silly can of worms and a silly immovable object....  Roadrider knows he's right, in spite of the fact he's not.
> 
> To the OP... do what you feel is safest for you and those around you.
> 
> To the Shouty immovable object... :troll:


Is someone in a shouty mood again?


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## harveymt (26 Feb 2014)

I'll ride the short stretch of pavement. I drove it this morning and most car drivers don't know how to handle it and jostle for position. I presume if I'm on the bike I'll be way down the list of what they're watching out for.

I was talking to a friend about it and apparently the junction has been due an upgrade for some time. Land adjacent to it has been purchased to allow it to get bigger so I guess a letter to Roads Service and local councillors would at least find out the stage it's at and provision being made for cyclists.


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## glenn forger (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> A
> 
> e you
> 
> The tipping point is that there is no such thing as a safe pavement cyclist.


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## MontyVeda (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Is someone in a shouty mood again?


not me sir... only two posts in this thread*... can't be bothered to count all yours 

*excluding this one of course


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> The tipping point is that there is no such thing as a safe pavement cyclist. You three are just talking bollocks, as usual. But carry on, you seem to enjoy it?



But you said that a 5 year old was ok to cycle on the pavement. Make up your mind.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> But you said that a 5 year old was ok to cycle on the pavement. Make up your mind.


It's hard to get your point across to occasional cyclists like yourselves.


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> It's hard to get your point across to occasional cyclists like yourselves.



How many miles do you do a year?


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Feb 2014)

we are all occasional cyclists aren't we? I'd like not to be but I find riding up the stairs on mine quite trying.


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> It's hard to get your point across to occasional cyclists like yourselves.



And what is your point.

kids should be in the road cycling?


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Feb 2014)

Can I change my username to Pavementrider53 as I did ride on the pavement for about 10m this evening just so I could say I had in this thread.

I'm evil.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

Ha ha ha! Do you all live together?


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Ha ha ha! Do you all live together?



Last chance fella...is it right or wrong for a child to be cycling on the pavement? If it's OK, where do YOU draw the line?

If you can't answer that then we're done.


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## theclaud (26 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I'd like not to be but I find riding up the stairs on mine quite trying.



MTFU?


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Feb 2014)

theclaud said:


> MTFU?


How I've tried. Oh how I've tried. But the 36 degree pitch is a killer, no matter how long the run up.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Last chance fella...is it right or wrong for a child to be cycling on the pavement? If it's OK, where do YOU draw the line?
> 
> If you can't answer that then we're done.


I was done with you occasionals ages ago. But for some reason you won't let it go. Keeping on with these stupid comments.
Pavement cycling is dangerous and is a bad practice, why you keep on about children I don't know.
Now if you'll excuse me, I've just got a new bike today and I would like to prepare it for tomorrow.
Thankyou for your repetitive questions, but they bore me now....nighty night.


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2014)

weirdo


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## theclaud (26 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I was done with you occasionals ages ago. But for some reason you won't let it go. Keeping on with these stupid comments.
> Pavement cycling is dangerous and is a bad practice, why you keep on about children I don't know.
> Now if you'll excuse me, I've just got a new bike today and I would like to prepare it for tomorrow.
> Thankyou for your repetitive questions, but they bore me now....nighty night.



A flouncette! Call @Smeggers II!


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Feb 2014)

theclaud said:


> A flouncette! Call @Smeggers II!


but was it an occasional one?


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## AndyPeace (27 Feb 2014)

I tried to read through the thread but can't quite make out what the point is. Are people now campaigning to ban cycles from shared paths? All this talk of how dangerous cycling is on a pavement, yet I've only found one story of a fatality caused by a wreckless cyclist called Darren Hall, who was cycling at high speed on a pavement round a blind corner which he did to avoid a red light. Tragic as that is, the comparable figure that year of people killed *on the pavement* by motor vehichles , in the same year as that incident was 54. This was 2009 anyone got any more recent figures?


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## glenn forger (27 Feb 2014)

No, but I recall an interesting fact that you're more likely to be killed by a police car on the pavement than a cyclist.


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## thefollen (27 Feb 2014)

Personally I enjoy seeing how fast I can get from one end of Oxford St to the other using only the pavement. Best at Christmas time however.


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## benb (27 Feb 2014)

I don't generally like pavement cycling, but it's not necessarily particularly dangerous.


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2014)

there's certain roads around these part which i've always used the pavements instead of the road... I knew i was breaking the highway code, but my safety is paramount... yes i could have pushed my bike along those pavements, but what's the point of that? The roads are full of fast moving HGVs, the pavement alongside is wide enough to ride.
These days all those pavements are shared use paths, so i was right all along


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## Roadrider48 (27 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> there's certain roads around these part which i've always used the pavements instead of the road... I knew i was breaking the highway code, but my safety is paramount... yes i could have pushed my bike along those pavements, but what's the point of that? The roads are full of fast moving HGVs, the pavement alongside is wide enough to ride.
> These days all those pavements are shared use paths, so i was right all along


By your own admission, you three don't ride very much atall. So it's probably a confidence thing....I kind of get that, not being confident on the road.


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## Nigeyy (27 Feb 2014)

I'm with MontyVeda (though being in the USA, cycling on the pavement can often be legal -depends on the town bylaws). 

I'd rather be safe -and if it means I can cycle on a pavement with no consequences to other pavement users, I'm OK with that. When I do, I most certainly give pedestrians precedence, and will stop if there is not enough space to pass by safely. A long time ago I realized my personal safety is my responsibility if motor vehicle driving is inadequately policed, restrained or bad driving has little to no consequences (or if there is bad road design). 

Back to present: different country admittedly, but I know I've cycled on pavement in a local town that doesn't legally allow it and have gone by a police cruisers quite a few times -they've never given me a moment's thought. I'd think you'd have to be deliberately obnoxious before they'd do something. Back in my previous job, I often commuted on stretch of pavement on a very busy dual carriageway. Had I not done so, I'd have been cycling in the road with fast moving traffic, with the need to cross over the road. Cycling on the pavement was a no brainer for my safety -and while I could have walked the half mile or so with my bike, since I only ever saw 2-3 people on the pavement in my entire time I commuted that route, I certainly don't think it was a terrible thing to do. 

It would be interesting to know if anyone have been stopped recently by the police for cycling on the pavement, assuming it was the only thing they were doing that could have caused the police to stop them?


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## Roadrider48 (27 Feb 2014)

Nigeyy said:


> I'm with MontyVeda (though being in the USA, cycling on the pavement can often be legal -depends on the town bylaws).
> 
> I'd rather be safe -and if it means I can cycle on a pavement with no consequences to other pavement users, I'm OK with that. When I do, I most certainly give pedestrians precedence, and will stop if there is not enough space to pass by safely. A long time ago I realized my personal safety is my responsibility if motor vehicle driving is inadequately policed, restrained or bad driving has little to no consequences (or if there is bad road design).
> 
> ...


Just another "stop the world, for the cyclist" you lot give cyclists a bad name. You want all our own way, then blame the cars for the smallest thing.
If there is no road, walk your bike!


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## Colin B (27 Feb 2014)

Don't want to get into the whole is it safe debate , but I intend treating a bicycle like any other mode of transport and obey the highway code and unless said pavement says shared use I will not be cycling on one . 
To me cycling on non shared use pavements regardless of your speed and how safely you are cycling just gives non cyclist yet more ammunition to throw and in order to have even the slightest chance of changing even one mind requires doing it by the book . I also agree that its kind of hypocritical to say a drivers in your ASL yet then say its ok to ride in an area designated pedestrian only . I would also like to point out that even motorbility scooters have classes 1 to 3 the latter must use the road . Anyways just my opinion .


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## thefollen (27 Feb 2014)

The other day (Monday) there was a build up of traffic around the Holborn area, more specifically in this instance the Strand end of Waterloo Bridge. Was tight enough that filtering was impossible. I got off the bike and walked/jogged on the pavement around the congestion when a lady, coffee in hand starts shouting at me- I think something about me nearly hitting her (which I certainly didn't - there was loads of room - a good four feet between myself and her burly presence). I of course laughed, waved her off and continued to the ASL. 

I'd only cycle on the pavement in town/residential areas if I REALLY had to in order to avoid an accident. Otherwise to get off and walk is actually quicker in most instances.

On particularly nasty A-roads I definitely consider it if cycling is too uncomfortable.


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## Dan B (27 Feb 2014)

Colin B said:


> in order to have even the slightest chance of changing even one mind requires doing it by the book .


Yes, that definitely worked for the suffragettes


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## Colin B (27 Feb 2014)

Dan B said:


> Yes, that definitely worked for the suffragettes


Ok so what your saying is when it comes to the highway code and the law its ok for a cyclist to break it when he feels like it but any other road user gets his reg plate on YouTube . I think this debate will never be agreed and excuses such as I feel endangered so I'll use the pavement will be quoted so that means basically i feel endangered every time I deliver in some rough area so sod the law I'm going to carry a knife for protection . Can't have it both ways when it concerns the law mate simple as that but if you want to ride on the pavement feel free to do so its your choice as it every one else's to do what they feel is then right thing .
I'm outta this one before it goes too Pete tong


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> By your own admission, you three don't ride very much atall. So it's probably a confidence thing....I kind of get that, not being confident on the road.


ah bless.... Roadrider's trying to wind us up by claiming we're nervous on the roads... it's not the first time in this thread you're a mile away from the truth or the facts... but i understand that... i think it's called clutching at straws because you're too manly to back down and admit you're a ********


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## Dan B (27 Feb 2014)

Colin B said:


> Can't have it both ways when it concerns the law mate simple as that


If only. Pedal reflectors, ASL feeder lanes, mince pies on Christmas Day


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## Dan B (27 Feb 2014)

Colin B said:


> Ok so what your saying is when it comes to the highway code and the law its ok for a cyclist to break it when he feels like it but any other road user gets his reg plate on YouTube .



You can show me where I said that, can you?


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2014)

Colin B said:


> ...
> I'm outta this one before it goes too Pete tong



it went Pete Tong when roadrider started trolling.


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## Colin B (27 Feb 2014)

Ah well what would I know anyways life's too short enjoy your debate lads and lasses I'm out


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## Colin B (27 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> it went Pete Tong when roadrider started trolling.


Wouldn't know mate I know very little about anyone here I'm new


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## Roadrider48 (27 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> ah bless.... Roadrider's trying to wind us up by claiming we're nervous on the roads... it's not the first time in this thread you're a mile away from the truth or the facts... but i understand that... i think it's called clutching at straws because you're too manly to back down and admit you're a ********


I'm not trying to wind anybody up, that's what you said. That's a bit of a silly post really.


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## Roadrider48 (27 Feb 2014)

T


MontyVeda said:


> it went Pete Tong when roadrider started trolling.


Troll? That's rich coming from you. 
Anyway, just you wait until you are doing a bit of your pavement cycling and you hit a kid or an old person. 
Mind you, it probably won't bother you because you think you're right and you have no conscience.


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## uclown2002 (27 Feb 2014)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> By your own admission, you three don't ride very much atall. So it's probably a confidence thing....I kind of get that, not being confident on the road.


Do you have an inordinately large penis too?


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## Colin B (27 Feb 2014)

Can someone answer me a question because I'm kind of confused . Cycle paths can they be used by pedestrians I mean I know they have right of way say if they were crossing already in a street I'd drove into by do they have right of way if walking down a cycle path ? Genuine question because I don't remember these paths as a kid


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## snorri (27 Feb 2014)

Colin B said:


> Can someone answer me a question because I'm kind of confused . Cycle paths can they be used by pedestrians I mean I know they have right of way say if they were crossing already in a street I'd drove into by do they have right of way if walking down a cycle path ? Genuine question because I don't remember these paths as a kid


I hope this helps a bit.
There are few dedicated cycle paths (cycling only) in the UK, the majority of paths available to cyclists are shared with pedestrians and are known as 'joint user paths'. Unfortunately there is no Rule of the Road on these paths and many cyclists and pedestrians walk or cycle on either side or even in the middle of the path. More experienced cyclists tend to cycle on the left, as they would on the road.
The pedestrian has priority, the onus is on the cyclist to avoid the pedestrians wherever they are walking on the path. This is why joint user paths tend to be disliked by many cyclists as they have to take care to avoid pedestrians who may move in a random manner at times. Dog walkers also present a hazard to cyclists on joint user paths as it is not unknown for the owner o be on one side of path, dog on opposite side and with a lead stretched across the path between the two.
See here for cycle route signs, joint user etc.
.http://www.sustrans.org.uk/change-your-travel/get-cycling/cycling-signs-and-road-markings


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2014)

I don't ride on the pavement. I don't jump red lights either.

Have I got the wrong attitude?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

slowmotion said:


> I don't ride on the pavement. I don't jump red lights either.
> 
> Have I got the wrong attitude?


Nope. A great attitude.

But the question is do we think five*-year-olds** should not ride on the pavement?

*other random numbers are available. What is the age of consent for getting squished by motor vehicles?

**or anyone else who finds the speed and volume of traffic in a particular location on their journey utterly intimidating...


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Nope. A great attitude.
> 
> But the question is do we think five*-year-olds** should not ride on the pavement?
> 
> ...


I don't think anybody would object to children riding on the pavement. BTW, I don't particularly like driving round Elephant and Castle. It doesn't mean that I drive round it on the pavement.


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## MontyVeda (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> ...
> Anyway, just you wait until you are doing a bit of your pavement cycling and you hit a kid or an old person.
> Mind you, it probably won't bother you because you think you're right and you have no conscience.



where do you stand on shared use paths? or to put it another way, where do you cycle on shared use paths?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

slowmotion said:


> I don't think anybody would object to children riding on the pavement. BTW, I don't particularly like driving round Elephant and Castle. I doesn't mean that I drive round it on the pavement.



As far as I am aware the Home Office has never advised ACPO not to prosecute drivers who drive their cars on the pavement.


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Do you have an inordinately large penis too?


Ha ha ha....


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Nope. A great attitude.
> 
> But the question is do we think five*-year-olds** should not ride on the pavement?
> 
> ...


No! The question is about not riding on the pavement, not about small children. You've turned it around on children because you have no other answer.


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2952894, member: 45"]Considerate cyclists don't do this. Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise...[/quote]
If you're cycling on the pavement and you hit someone by accident because they move in your path or whatever; how the hell can being "considerate" accommodate for that?


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## martint235 (28 Feb 2014)

Well that was a fun 6 pages. Just to way in with a tuppence (cos I'm bored)


I don't ride on shared use paths. I don't like them. I find pedestrians are way harder to predict than cars. That's my personal view but I see the point of shared use paths.
I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules. RLJ near me and I'll tell you pretty much what I think of you. Yes you can reciprocate but the chances are I'm bigger than you. However if ACPO have decided that in the interests of road safety they will allow people to use their bikes on the pavement in a considerate way, that's good enough for me. Because of my first point, you're unlikely to find me there.
Iirc priority (which is what is actually being referred to by "right of way" which doesn't exist) always belongs to the pedestrian.
to tell people like BHP400 and GrumpyGreg that they are occasional cyclists who may be nervous around traffic is just funny.


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## martint235 (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> If you're cycling on the pavement and you hit someone by accident because they move in your path or whatever; how the hell can being "considerate" accommodate for that?


 Perhaps by travelling at a speed that allows you to stop or avoid. Just an idea.


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

martint235 said:


> Perhaps by travelling at a speed that allows you to stop or avoid. Just an idea.


Not a very good one. Try again!


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## martint235 (28 Feb 2014)

And why is it not very good? It works in all the other scenarios :jogging; walking quickly; mobility scooters ; pram pushing etc. I admit those of limited intelligence may struggle to grasp the concept but hey ho


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2954428, member: 45"]Considerate cyclists don't put themselves in that situation. If they did you'd have evidence of the collisions...[/quote]
Sorry I forgot. Considerates can see around corners and read peoples minds as to which way they will go.


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

martint235 said:


> And why is it not very good? It works in all the other scenarios :jogging; walking quickly; mobility scooters ; pram pushing etc. I admit those of limited intelligence may struggle to grasp the concept but hey ho


You are seriously comparing this with prams/pushchairs and people just walking.
That is such an ignorant statement; it's like, "I'm on a bike, everyone else f##k off out the way"
Don't bother replying, you're not worth the wear on my fingertips.


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2954889, member: 45"]I can't see around blind corners when I'm walking. How is that different?

Got any evidence yet?[/quote]
EVIDENCE!! You've been on about evidence for two days, are you ok?
Common sense Paulie, that's all.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> No! The question is about not riding on the pavement, not about small children. You've turned it around on children because you have no other answer.


would you prefer we talk about maiden aunts then?

You've asserted something. ALL pavement riding is ALWAYS dangerous.discourteous/inconsiderate/et cetera. Now back it up. Evidence please.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Sorry I forgot. Considerates can see around corners and read peoples minds as to which way they will go.


How do you manage to walk down a busy street?


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## Roadrider48 (28 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> would you prefer we talk about maiden aunts then?
> 
> You've asserted something. ALL pavement riding is ALWAYS dangerous.discourteous/inconsiderate/et cetera. Now back it up. Evidence please.


Sorry I'm having trouble breathing, because I'm laughing so much. What is this evidence you three keep banging on about?
You all know I'm right, but it's gone too far for your ego to allow a climb down.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

martint235 said:


> to tell people like BHP400 and GrumpyGreg that they are occasional cyclists who may be nervous around traffic is just funny.


To be fair I have conceded the "occasional" point. I just can't get up the wooden hills to Bedfordshire even on the mtb.


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## martint235 (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> You are seriously comparing this with prams/pushchairs and people just walking.
> That is such an ignorant statement; it's like, "I'm on a bike, everyone else f##k off out the way"
> Don't bother replying, you're not worth the wear on my fingertips.


No one is suggesting that cycling at 20mph down the pavement is a good idea.

I certainly (if you bothered to read) compared it to another activity of similar speed, jogging. But you can't be arsed to read.

Here's another scenario. Doris. She's real. She's in her 80s and lives in the sheltered accommodation across from me. Every Saturday Doris gets her bike out and cycles down the pavement to Lidl. She stops when necessary, she often stops just to chat to people. I doubt she ever gets above 5 miles an hour. However in Lidl she fills her panniers with her weekly shop and then cycles back. I've spoken to her quite a lot because I'm incredibly impressed she can still do this. She admits she wouldn't be able to walk with all her shopping and so her options would be to send someone else or get a mobility scooter. But she'd rather remain active. 

Are you seriously suggesting that Doris mixes it with the traffic?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Sorry I'm having trouble breathing, because I'm laughing so much. What is this evidence you three keep banging on about?
> You all know I'm right, but it's gone too far for your ego to allow a climb down.


How do you manage to walk down a busy street?


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

I'm an occasional trackstander. If I trackstand on the pavement... no don't bother. Perhaps just standing still on the pavement is dangerous.

Staying indoors is the future.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2954942, member: 45"]We had a friend who did exactly the same. Doris was her name as well.[/quote]
I had an Auntie Doris. She wasn't my actual Aunt but I called her that for over forty years. Occasionally.


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## theclaud (28 Feb 2014)

[QUOTE 2954987, member: 45"]I'm terrified of trying to get the bike from our drive to the road now, for fear that I might maim a nun.[/quote]

It's an unfortunate fact that with progress there are casualties.™


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## MontyVeda (28 Feb 2014)

I'm feeling all lonely and left out... why hasn't @Roadrider48 posted a reply to this?



MontyVeda said:


> where do you stand on shared use paths? or to put it another way, where do you cycle on shared use paths?



I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear your views on this newfangled idea.







I hope the two pedestrians survived, they seem to be clinging onto each other for dear life.


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## 400bhp (28 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm feeling all lonely and left out... why hasn't @Roadrider48 posted a reply to this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I am outraged. I am now outraged that I was sorry for my outrage.


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## MontyVeda (28 Feb 2014)

I'm outraged that Roadrider is probably out having a life whilst the rest of us 'billy no mates' are spending friday on CC


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## 400bhp (28 Feb 2014)

Shhh, dont tell roadrager but I pavement cycled today. Wasnt even shared use

I feel dirty.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm feeling all lonely and left out... why hasn't @Roadrider48 posted a reply to this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


suicide by cyclepath? Dignitas could be on to a winner.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm outraged that Roadrider is probably out having a life whilst the rest of us 'billy no mates' are spending friday on CC


Gerr'off. I've been to the pictures and the pub.


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2014)

Having removed all lights from my bike, dressed myself entirely in dark colours, dragged the waist of my jeans and pants to slightly above my knees.....I am ready. Off down the pavement for some wheelies, rolling a spliff and nattering into my mobile, no hands. Please warn the nuns.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Feb 2014)

slowmotion said:


> Having removed all lights from my bike, dressed myself entirely in dark colours, dragged the waist of my jeans and pants to slightly above my knees.....I am ready. Off down the pavement for some wheelies, rolling a spliff and nattering into my mobile, no hands. Please warn the nuns.


Sisters! He's a comin' for ya!


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 Feb 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> I'm feeling all lonely and left out... why hasn't @Roadrider48 posted a reply to this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can tell that the 2 pedestrians have already become blurred. This indicates that they are now members of the spirit world.


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## slowmotion (28 Feb 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Sisters! He's a comin' for ya!


 
Fo' shizzle!


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## classic33 (1 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Staying indoors is the future.


More accidents in the house than outside.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

classic33 said:


> More accidents in the house than outside.


Should I hang around on the doorstep?


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## classic33 (1 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Should I hang around on the doorstep?


Someone might think you look dodgy!


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

classic33 said:


> Someone might think you look dodgy!


might? you say. that would be a step up.


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## 400bhp (1 Mar 2014)

#flounce.

Roadrager has disappeared.

Perhaps he's on a come down from the funny pills.


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## Nigeyy (1 Mar 2014)

I bet he's in a nun convalescent home after being run down and maimed by slowmotion. Those nuns aren't well known for having internet access.



400bhp said:


> #flounce.
> 
> Roadrager has disappeared.
> 
> Perhaps he's on a come down from the funny pills.


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## MontyVeda (1 Mar 2014)

maybe @Roadrider48 has gone all quiet because his opinion of pavement cyclists and his view of shared use paths are too conflicting to put into words.... or maybe he's writing to his MP to try to get shared use paths banned before posting? All we can do is speculate.


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## MontyVeda (1 Mar 2014)

he's certainly viewing this thread at the moment.... come on Roadrider... we're dying to find out your views on shared use paths... AKA legally cycling on the pavement.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2956102, member: 45"]Maybe he's just thinking.[/quote]
A very welcome innovation.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

I admit it. Just now I rode 10m on the pavement from my next-door-but-two-neighbours dropped kerb to my front gate. Nobody died though.


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## MontyVeda (1 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I admit it. Just now I rode 10m on the pavement from my next-door-but-two-neighbours dropped kerb to my front gate. *Nobody died though*.


Are sure about that? Apparently pavement cyclists are so self-obsessed there's a good chance you didn't even notice the pensioner you'd mowed down, or the two children that had to jump out of your way and into the path of a speeding lorry. You'd better check outside


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

MontyVeda said:


> Are sure about that? Apparently pavement cyclists are so self-obsessed there's a good chance you didn't even notice the pensioner you'd mowed down, or the two children that had to jump out of your way and into the path of a speeding lorry. You'd better check outside


I asked the nuns. They said it was all good.


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## 400bhp (1 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I admit it. Just now I rode 10m on the pavement from my next-door-but-two-neighbours dropped kerb to my front gate. Nobody died though.


You selfish twunt.


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## GrumpyGregry (1 Mar 2014)

400bhp said:


> You selfish twunt.


I know, and I don't even have a front gate!


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## classic33 (2 Mar 2014)




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## benb (4 Mar 2014)

I'll just pop this here:
http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/cycling-in-pedestrianised-areas/


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## GrumpyGregry (4 Mar 2014)

classic33 said:


> View attachment 39118


What point is being made by posting this....?


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## classic33 (4 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> What point is being made by posting this....?


 Well if read, you'll see see that people are referring to figures give by a councillor, about the number of injuries suffered on the pavement, compared to those on the roads.
Councils compile these figures remember!


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## Tim Hall (4 Mar 2014)

It was very badly scanned ad appeared more or less illegible. Leastways it did here.


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## classic33 (4 Mar 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> It was very badly scanned ad appeared more or less illegible. Leastways it did here.


 I didn't scan it. I did a search for figures, which everyone seems to want & came across that, as you see it. It is however readable.
The figures quoted in those letters were it seems given by a councillor, which the letter writers seem to dispute/call into question. Exactly what has been done here. However its the councils that collect this information and presumably pass it on when asked for at national level.


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## Tim Hall (4 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2961749, member: 45"]I can't read it.[/quote]
Phew. I thought it was me and my shonky monitor.


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## classic33 (5 Mar 2014)

http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/letters/scaremongering-with-stereotypes-1-4173892 
To which the replies were made


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## classic33 (5 Mar 2014)




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## classic33 (5 Mar 2014)

I'm restricted by the size of image that can be uploaded. Origional was readable when posted.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Mar 2014)

three splendid replies


classic33 said:


> I didn't scan it. I did a search for figures, which everyone seems to want & came across that, as you see it. It is however readable.
> The figures quoted in those letters were it seems given by a councillor, which the letter writers seem to dispute/call into question. Exactly what has been done here. However its the councils that collect this information and presumably pass it on when asked for at national level.


Your trust in the knowledge and expertise of councillors is touching. 

It is council officers that collect data on all manner of things. A certain sort of councillors just spouts guff to suit their prejudices and often just make numbers up. Mr Circus is of that sort. Very much a "hard-pressed motorist" "scourge of pavement cyclist" type.

The letter writers were likely significantly better informed than him on the matter. The risk posed to pedestrians by pavement cyclists is vanishingly small. The risk posed to pedestrians by responsible pavement cyclists is zero.


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## classic33 (5 Mar 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> three splendid replies
> 
> Your trust in the knowledge and expertise of councillors is touching.
> 
> ...


Take your blinkers off, read what was said then count the number of replies, again.
People asked for figures. I managed to find some and you're not pleased. 
You know the councillor in question I take it!


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Mar 2014)

classic33 said:


> Take your blinkers off, read what was said then count the number of replies, again.
> People asked for figures. I managed to find some and you're not pleased.
> You know the councillor in question I take it!


I'm well versed in the numbers. I repeat; The risk posed to pedestrians by pavement cyclists is vanishingly small. The risk posed to pedestrians by responsible pavement cyclists is zero.


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