# Car drivers frustrated and insulted



## Drago (28 Jun 2021)

A road is being upgraded in Walesland and it seems some drivers are jolly upset because it will have a 50MPH speed limit for safety and air quality reasons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57615167

It's just unbelievable. I mean, how fast do they need to go? If they didn't keep crashing and dying then the speed limit might be a bit higher, so motorists led their own destiny with that one.

50MPH, in the grand scheme, is a phenomenal speed. Thatll take a driver from the outskirts of London to milton keynes in an hour, and in another 75 minutes onwards to Brum.

Why do some car drivers feel so self entitled, and why do the media persistently allow their views on safety - and their views on cyclists - to prevail?

Even electric cars are, in the grand scheme, polluting boxes of danger and societal expense, inconvvenience and disarray, and the sooner the government force the media to stop being a willing platform for cage pilots the better it will be for everyone.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

I'm often struck by how much more pleasant an experience it is to drive when they impose 50 limits on the motorway due to works.

I drove London to Coventry and back at the weekend. A lot of the M1 was under a 60 limit and even that was an improvement.


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## Andy in Germany (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> A road is being upgraded in Walesland and it seems some drivers are jolly upset because it will have a 50MPH speed limit for safety and air quality reasons.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57615167
> 
> ...



So their problem is that after getting a new road paid for by taxpayers, which has gone vastly over budget they will be "forced" to drive the same speed as before to avoid killing themselves?

Boo hoo.


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## cougie uk (28 Jun 2021)

Much better efficiency at 50mph than 70 too. Cars should come with a trip computer that tells you cost per mile.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> So their problem is that after getting a new road paid for by taxpayers, which has gone vastly over budget they will be "forced" to drive the same speed as before to avoid killing themselves?
> 
> Boo hoo.


upgraded road, not new....i live not 30 seconds from the road, that has taken 7yrs to upgrade and have zero issues with it having a 50mph speed limit. there have been hundreds of deaths on that stretch of road over the years. So the upgrade to a dual carrigeway will stop cars doing u turns and trying to cross lanes for shortcuts that have caused the crashes in the past......also in stretches its, got blind corners and long swinging bends, so the limit is good in my eyes....

and by the way, a lot of my friends and family who also live within 2mins off this road, feel the same way


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> A road is being upgraded in Walesland and it seems *some drivers* are jolly upset because it will have a 50MPH speed limit for safety and air quality reasons.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57615167
> 
> ...


ive bolded a bit.......i'm glad you stated some driver's, as not all of us feel the same way. 50mph on that stretch of road is fine, trust me. Seen too many deaths on that road as it is......


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## oldwheels (28 Jun 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Much better efficiency at 50mph than 70 too. Cars should come with a trip computer that tells you cost per mile.


Not only that but you probably arrive at your destination at about the same time anyway regardless of 50 or 70mph max.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

@jowwy Is my memory failing me or did the old road up the Clydach used to be 3 lanes (two each way and a suicide lane in the middle) or was it 4-lane?. I know the bit immediately before it (Abergavenny to Gilwern) used to be 3 lanes. I need to pay a visit to Abergavenny soon so I may drive up there just for old times sake.


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## Sharky (28 Jun 2021)

Before the m25 was built, I had often discounted jobs in the Croydon area as the journey from the Dartford area would have been too long.

A long time after the m25 was opened, I took a job happily at Whyteleafe, knowing that a route using the m25 would get me there quickly.

But in practice, I found that conjestion on the m25 was so great and frustrating, that I started taking the narrow and slower country roads to get to work. Time wise it took about 10 mins long than a good day on the m25, but on a bad 25 day it was very much quicker.

Ironic that the route that had deterred me from getting a job in the Croydon area, actually became the route of preference.

After a settling in period, the country route also became cycle commute. It was a bit lengthy at 23 miles each way, but managed to do it a few times each week.

So I'm glad the m25 did get built as it took a lot of traffic away from my cycle route.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> @jowwy Is my memory failing me or did the old road up the Clydach used to be 3 lanes (two each way and a suicide lane in the middle). I know the bit immediately before it (Abergavenny to Gilwern) used to be like that. I need to pay a visit to Abergavenny soon so I may drive up there just for old times sake.


you are correct......you could overtake going up, but not coming down.....but that's what drivers did and that's what caused a huge amount of crashes and deaths. also at the gilwern end, there was a junction that you needed to use that meant you had to cross all 3 lanes to be able to drive upto brynmawr, that's been removed now and you have to go left onto a slip road ad down to the roundabout and back up. it will be safer now its duelled, but its still a steep bendy road, with blind bends


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> @jowwy Is my memory failing me or did the old road up the Clydach used to be 3 lanes (two each way and a suicide lane in the middle) or was it 4-lane?. I know the bit immediately before it (Abergavenny to Gilwern) used to be 3 lanes. I need to pay a visit to Abergavenny soon so I may drive up there just for old times sake.


you will be amazed how much it has changed.......


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> you are correct......you could overtake going up, but not coming down.....but that what drivers did and that's what cause huge amount of crashes and deaths. also at the gilwern end, *there was a junction that you needed to use that meant you had to cross all 3 lines to be able to drive upto brynmawr*, that's been removed now and you have to go left onto a slip road ad down to the roundabout and back up. it will be safer now its duelled, but its still a steep bendy road, with blind bends


I remember that. I learned to drive in Abergavenny/Gilwern. It was an absolute doddle with few difficult hazards - apart from that! (Oh, and market days)


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I remember that. I learned to drive in Abergavenny/Gilwern. It was an absolute doddle with few difficult hazards - apart from that! (Oh, and market days)


i was born in gilwern.......lived there til 17 and then bought a house in abergavenny, before moving to were i am now in nantyglo


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## Drago (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> ive bolded a bit.......i'm glad you stated some driver's, as not all of us feel the same way. 50mph on that stretch of road is fine, trust me. Seen too many deaths on that road as it is......


Absolutely only some drivers. I own a car and, just occasionally, drive it on the road and I've no issue with bimbling at 50, because I am psychologically well adjusted and do not have to feed an atavistic desire to compensate for a sexual inadequacy by flying about and "dominating" other road users.

I'm quite happy to bimble along at 50, which is liable to flow better and be more likely to make an average speed close to that limit achievable. Far better that than being stuck in a 3 mile tailback at 70 because some selfish bellend doesn't know how to drive in a straight line. 

Chuck in better fuel consumption, less wear and tear, reduced pollution and lower stress levels and it seems an utter no brainer to me.


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## slowmotion (28 Jun 2021)

If you buy a car that is advertised as giving you an open alpine road and is capable of 100 mph with a downhill tailwind, a 50mph motorway restriction (or God Forbid, a mere cyclist) is a bit of an insult.

The average traffic speed in central London is a tad below 6mph during rush hour. They don't tell you that in the w@nkpanzer adverts.


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2021)

Well that 21 year old driver is an expert of all of 3-4 years driving experience ! 

There are many roads in Wales that have had the speeds reduced for good reason. A 70mph dual carriageway between Talacre and Gronant in North Wales has been reduced to 40-50 MPH (depends which bit) and reduced to a single carriageway after a number of deaths, as there are side roads which crossed - one ended up with a whole family losing their lives.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

fossyant said:


> Well that 21 year old driver is an expert of all of 3-4 years driving experience !
> 
> There are many roads in Wales that have had the speeds reduced for good reason. A 70mph dual carriageway between Talacre and Gronant in North Wales has been reduced to 40-50 MPH (depends which bit) and reduced to a single carriageway after a number of deaths, as there are side roads which crossed - one ended up with a whole family losing their lives.


the thing is she has only ever driven the road with the 40mph speed limit and 1 lane due to the works.....when it fully open she will see the benfits of the works


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

_" The Welsh Conservatives feared the 50mph speed limit - rather than the 70mph limit normally adopted on dual carriageways - could increase congestion. "_

I wonder if they could explain the mechanism by which this increase in congestion would happen.

I suppose they haven't said it _would_ increased congestion, just that they _fear_ it. And fear is irrational so needs no explanation.


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## Pale Rider (28 Jun 2021)

fossyant said:


> Well that 21 year old driver is an expert of all of 3-4 years driving experience



With a commute of 60+ miles to Weston-super-Mare I imagine she's permanently 'insulted' by driving conditions.


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## mustang1 (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> A road is being upgraded in Walesland and it seems some drivers are jolly upset because it will have a 50MPH
> stuff deleted
> 
> Why do some car drivers feel so self entitled, and *why do the media persistently allow their views on safety - and their views on cyclists - to prevail?*
> ...


Those same media people _are _the car drivers. Self full filling prophecy and all that.


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## ebikeerwidnes (28 Jun 2021)

For a few months I had a contract working at a school over an hour drive away - mostly up the M6

I generally found that I was better off leaving 15 minutes early and driving at the same speed as the lorries - so 50-60 - in the inside lane and letting the far more important people whizz past at 70-90 in the outside lane - as they are clearly entitled to do. ;-)
I got into work 10 minutes before I would have arrived if I had stress out the whole way to keep my speed up to 70 but arrived far calmer.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> Why do some car drivers feel so self entitled, and why do the media persistently allow their views on safety - and their views on cyclists - to prevail?


Probably because they are newsworthy. And if there is no news, then you can invent some by getting a random vox pop head to start spouting off.

Even if, as @jowwy pointed out, this isn't necessarily representative of local feeling. After all interviewing someone who says "having a safer road with a 50mph limit sounds like a good idea to me" is not news and doesn't stir up angst.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

there is a very limited police presence around this place....so you will get drivers doing their usual 70/80/90mph up or down that stretch of road, its just the nature of the beast where new wider roads are built


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

its funny though aint it...on the bbc website they have interviewed the 21yr old girl about the road, she states " it used to take 10 mins to drive to abergavenny and now it takes 25mins".......now, she has never driven the road without road works, as its been 7yrs doing the upgrade, which means when they started she was 14. If it took 10mins, someone else was driving and its 11 miles from ebbw vale to abergavenny. The AA says it takes this long







so you can see the speed the person was driving at to get there in 10 mins


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## tyred (28 Jun 2021)

The advertising for a new Audi promises endless fun and adventure and charging along deserted roads in your high tech German super saloon.

The reality is traffic jams and trundling along most of the time at speeds which could be achieved in a Ford Prefect so people feel frustrated.


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## Drago (28 Jun 2021)

tyred said:


> The advertising for a new Audi promises endless fun and adventure and charging along deserted roads in your high tech German super saloon.
> 
> The reality is traffic jams and trundling along most of the time at speeds which could be achieved in a Ford Prefect so people feel frustrated.


Thqts a fair point, although the blade cuts both ways.

Ina recent incident here in Poshshire some 19 year old twit in a festa ST has had a nasty smash and badly injured his passengers. The Mailinati are foaming at the mouth about how this was bound to happen with a youngster in a powerful car, while overlooking the simple fact that he was doing 60 when he lost it and my Nan's olde Austin 1100 automatic could manage 60 with performance to spare.

It's not what's under the bonnet - its the loose nut behind the wheel.


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## tyred (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> Thqts a fair point, although the blade cuts both ways.
> 
> Ina recent incident here in Poshshire some 19 year old twit in a festa ST has had a nasty smash and badly injured his passengers. The Mailinati are foaming at the mouth about how this was bound to happen with a youngster in a powerful car, while overlooking the simple fact that he was doing 60 when he lost it and my Nan's olde Austin 1100 automatic could manage 60 with performance to spare.
> 
> It's not what's under the bonnet - its the loose nut behind the wheel.


Absolutely correct, ultimately it is the driver's mindset but I find most older cars were more softly sprung and relaxing to drive whereas a lot of even quite basic modern cars feel like sports cars and encourage fast driving.

I have never found myself being aggressively tailgated and overtaken in a dangerous manner by a Morris Minor.


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## sheddy (28 Jun 2021)

and the Welsh for driver is ?


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## DCBassman (28 Jun 2021)

tyred said:


> whereas a lot of even quite basic modern cars feel like sports cars and encourage fast driving.


This. I dislike this aspect of my new-to-me car.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

sheddy said:


> and the Welsh for driver is ?


gyrrwr


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## neil_merseyside (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> _" The Welsh Conservatives feared the 50mph speed limit - rather than the 70mph limit normally adopted on dual carriageways - could increase congestion. "_
> 
> I wonder if they could explain the mechanism by which this increase in congestion would happen.
> 
> I suppose they haven't said it _would_ increased congestion, just that they _fear_ it. And fear is irrational so needs no explanation.



Congestion because a surge to 70 and panic 'I can see brakelights' stop to zero can easily be a simple average of 35? All the busy roads like M25, M62 and M42 with variable limits flow much faster when restricted and traffic flow is smooth.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> Congestion because a surge to 70 and panic 'I can see brakelights' stop to zero can easily be a simple average of 35? All the busy roads like M25, M62 and M42 with variable limits flow much faster when restricted and traffic flow is smooth.


That makes sense, but it's not what they are saying. 

They are saying that a 70 limit will _reduce_ congestion, and a 50 limit will _increase_ it. Or at least they are saying that they fear that.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jun 2021)

It was very clear driving from my mother’s yesterday. Increases in the number of vehicles in a space I.e. level of congestion was directly down to drivers not sticking to the speed limits. Drivers forced to stick to 50 with average speed cameras will flow so much better.


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## DCBassman (28 Jun 2021)

Maybe it's time to actually reduce all the main limits by 10mph. Certainly wouldn't worry me. 
In any case, I stick to the limits by the simple expedient of using cruise control or a limiter. Even without, it's not exactly difficult...


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## Andy in Germany (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> Why do some car drivers feel so self entitled, and why do the media persistently allow their views on safety - and their views on cyclists - to prevail?



Advertising.

Also: clickbait.


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## Oldhippy (28 Jun 2021)

Wonder if anyone has ever approached Trading standards due to not being suddenly attractive/having cool mates who like beach parties/no roads opening up to empty vistas as they leave the showroom?


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

the amount of idiotic comments on the bbc website about this road is unbelievable.


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## Drago (28 Jun 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Wonder if anyone has ever approached Trading standards due to not being suddenly attractive/having cool mates who like beach parties/no roads opening up to empty vistas as they leave the showroom?


Indeed. I drive a Volvo for its legendary safety, and notmonce has a strange woman asked to have safe sex with me.


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## icowden (28 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> A road is being upgraded in Walesland and it seems some drivers are jolly upset because it will have a 50MPH speed limit for safety and air quality reasons.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57615167
> It's just unbelievable. I mean, how fast do they need to go? If they didn't keep crashing and dying then the speed limit might be a bit higher, so motorists led their own destiny with that one.



Honestly @Drago,

WIll you not think of Liv?



> Motorists, like 21-year-old trainee pharmacy technician Liv Hoskins, have had to put up with traffic congestion and 40mph speed limits as the road between Brynmawr in Blaenau Gwent and Abergavenny in Monmouthshire is upgraded.
> "Where I live in Ebbw Vale, you used to be able to get from Ebbw Vale down to Abergavenny in about 10 minutes," said Ms Hoskins, who uses the route on her way to work in the Somerset resort of Weston-super-Mare.
> "Now, you've got to allow at least 25 minutes. It's frustrating. The speed limit and flow of traffic on a single carriageway road has been a complete nightmare from start to finish.



She used to be able to drive those 11 miles in 10 minutes at an average speed of 65 miles an hour. It's now going to take her 12 minutes*.
Obviously the additional congestion is (in her mind) permanent...
Oh the humanity...

*or she doesn't know what she is talking about and cannot differentiate normal congestion from construction congestion. You choose.


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## T4tomo (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> you are correct......you could overtake going up, but not coming down.....but that's what drivers did and that's what caused a huge amount of crashes and deaths. also at the gilwern end, there was a junction that you needed to use that meant you had to cross all 3 lanes to be able to drive upto brynmawr, that's been removed now and you have to go left onto a slip road ad down to the roundabout and back up. it will be safer now its duelled, but its still a steep bendy road, with blind bends


A similar thing (removal of 3rd suicide lane) was done on the A64 between York and Malton for same reason. The A64 is a mix of single and dual carriage way and gets notoriously congested, especially in summer with general tourists and touring caravans in the summer. all the dual carriage way bit do is allow you to get past the caravans a bit quicker and then sit for longer in the next queue on the next single carriageway section, and provide a chance for those who don't understand "zip-merging" at the end of dual carriage ways to get irate.

A road only has a much capacity as it lowest capacity section!


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

icowden said:


> Honestly @Drago,
> 
> WIll you not think of Liv?
> 
> ...


just an FYI....this girl has never driven this road without the roadworks....she is only 21, the roadworks started in 2014 when she was 14. therefore has only driven it with a 40mph current roadworks speed limit. Even the AA roadmap states it would take 23mins to get from ebbw vale to abergavenny in ideal road conditions.....


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## icowden (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> just an FYI....this girl has never driven this road without the roadworks....she is only 21, the roadworks started in 2014 when she was 14. therefore has only driven it with a 40mph current roadworks speed limit. Even the AA roadmap states it would take 23mins to get from ebbw vale to abergavenny in ideal road conditions.....



And yet she used to be able to do it in 10 minutes? Was she joyriding?


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## Arrowfoot (28 Jun 2021)

The more I read it, it sounds like poor journalism who found the usual whiners. As @jowwy and others have mentioned that road needed an upgrade.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

icowden said:


> And yet she used to be able to do it in 10 minutes? Was she joyriding?


i posted earlier that i live not 30 seconds from said road...and no way at any stage of my driving life would you ever be able to get from ebbw vale to abergavenny in 10 mins....and ive been drving for over 20yrs


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## Andy in Germany (28 Jun 2021)

T4tomo said:


> A road only has a much capacity as it lowest capacity section!



Also let us remember the phenomenon of induced demand which dictates that this dual carriageway will be as bunged up as before within a very short period of time, leading to further congestion as drivers rely on sat navs to try and find an alternative through the local villages.


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## T4tomo (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> and ive been drving for over 20yrs


...and still not reached Abergavenny! Traffic congestion must be murder boom boom!


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

T4tomo said:


> ...and still not reached Abergavenny! Traffic congestion must be murder boom boom!


If i go that way i go by bike………i can descend at 50mph, they can only drive 40mph lol…..the looks i get swerving in and out of the traffic lol


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## icowden (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> i posted earlier that i live not 30 seconds from said road...and no way at any stage of my driving life would you ever be able to get from ebbw vale to abergavenny in 10 mins....and ive been drving for over 20yrs


I'm shocked. Are you saying that the BBC have included a made up quote from a driver without any journalistic checks whatsoever...?
Anyone know if GB News have a perspective on the topic?


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

I used to get the bus from Abergavenny to Ebbw Vale about 40 years ago. I can definitely say it took more than 10 minutes.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I used to get the bus from Abergavenny to Ebbw Vale about 40 years ago. I can definitely say it took more than 10 minutes.


Where did you live dog????


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> Where did you live dog????


I lived in Gilwern (the posh houses on Crossroads). I worked at Richards' in Abergavenny and got the bus to my Maths evening class in Ebbw Vale once or twice a week.


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## jowwy (28 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I lived in Gilwern (the posh houses on Crossroads). I worked at Richards' in Abergavenny and got the bus to my Maths evening class in Ebbw Vale once or twice a week.


I had a few friends that lived on the crossroads……..and my school headmaster. How long ago did you live there??


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## Dogtrousers (28 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> I had a few friends that lived on the crossroads……..and my school headmaster. How long ago did you live there??


Only briefly - in the late 70s. My parents were there for longer but I buggered off to be a student.


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Jun 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Wonder if anyone has ever approached Trading standards due to not being suddenly attractive/having cool mates who like beach parties/no roads opening up to empty vistas as they leave the showroom?


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## Archie_tect (28 Jun 2021)

I have found the perfect solution to sp[eeding vehivcles... Nothumbertland Council have given Sattfordshire Council the contract to lay loose chippings in sprayed hot tar on the 6 mile stretch of dual carriageway from the roundabout for the southbound A68 east to the A68 northbound off slip road.

They have put a *10mph speed limit* on the dual carriageway which is reduced to a single lane preventing people passing... because they are loose chippings which clatter up off the road surface and seriously chip your paint if you attempt to go over 10mph, so people are sticking religiously to the limit! It's brilliant!


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## Drago (28 Jun 2021)

Christ, some people are so bone idle lazy that they'd sooner endure a 10mph limit before theyd walk, cycle or take the bus.


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

i got two pictures here of what the top of the old road used to look like and the devastation caused to build the new road.......

This is how it looked before the roadworks started, in the middle of those trees is a derelict factory that had been shut for around 15yrs before the work started. They had to knock all that down and then do test explosions, to ensure the rock it all sits on didn't collapse and block the biggest caving network in europe.........which is just down the road at clydach gorge

http://www.brynmawrcavingclub.org.uk/local-caves/


this is one of the reasons the road cost so much to be upgraded








And this is about 3yrs later





as well as the road being upgraded all new pedestrian bridges had to be put in to re-connect clydach south with clydach north, as the old bridges were not long enough and couldn't be kept. As it was now a dual carriageway, new underpasses, roundabouts, junctions had to be built to get in and out of the local villages in the area........

trying to span the huge clydach gorge to create the extra lanes and removed large amounts of the mountain called black rock, is the reason for the over spend and the huge amount of extra time taken


another picture of the area of where the road goes....


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

this is a picture of the old road on the right and the huge rockface to the left that had to be removed to build the extra two lanes. What the workers needed to do, to stop huge rocks dropping onto the cars below......a little further down you can see shipping containers that were filled full of hardcore, to stop the mountain slipping during excavation works






this is what is happening on top of that rockface


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

this is the new exit out of gilwern junction, so that you dont cross all 4 lanes to go upto brynmawr. you can see the new foot bridge that was needed to span the road to connect gilwern up to the older church road to clydach

so as you can see, it was not an easy upgrade






just to the left of this is also a huge canal network that had to be re-inforced to ensure none of that collapsed during the upgrade, with new bridges and walkways needing re-building due to the road over hanging parts of the canal


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## T4tomo (29 Jun 2021)

Must have been an interesting cost benefit analysis, because building in a tight valley terrain like that costs a fortune, and the main benefit will be cutting accidents, rather than travel time, which is very hard to value.. It will have at least provided a load of construction jobs


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

the new road being built above the old road and the size of the retaining wall needed........if that collapsed it would cover the old road ( now a cycle/walking path) and end up in the river and canal network below


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

T4tomo said:


> Must have been an interesting cost benefit analysis, because building in a tight valley terrain like that costs a fortune, and the main benefit will be cutting accidents, rather than travel time, which is very hard to value.. It will have at least provided a load of construction jobs


the benefits to the area are huge.....its just people wont see it yet, as they are still seeing roadworks. once completed it will be brilliant for the area and reduce deaths, that have plagued that road for umpteen years


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## Dogtrousers (29 Jun 2021)

Thanks for the pictures. I must go back and take a look. 

That picture in post #59 is an interesting mix of old and new. The pub you can see is called the The Navigation, on the canal that @jowwy mentioned. Just below the bottom of the picture the canal passes over a humungous embankment across the Clydach Gorge. All built with picks, shovels and wheelbarrows. When it was new it must have seemed like a monstrous scar on the landscape, but now it's been absorbed into the countryside you hardly notice it.

The work on the road has been going on for ages. My parents were still living there when they started work on the roundabout at the Abergavenny end of Gilwern. There were rock crushers running all hours of the day and night. We sold the house over 10 years ago I think.


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I must go back and take a look.
> 
> That picture in post #59 is an interesting mix of old and new. The pub you can see is called the The Navigation, on the canal that @jowwy mentioned. Just below the bottom of the picture the canal passes over a humungous embankment across the Clydach Gorge. All built with picks, shovels and wheelbarrows. When it was new it must have seemed like a monstrous scar on the landscape, but now it's been absorbed into the countryside you hardly notice it.
> 
> The work on the road has been going on for ages. My parents were still living there when they started work on the roundabout at the Abergavenny end of Gilwern. There were rock crushers running all hours of the day and night. We sold the house over 10 years ago I think.


yes the current works is section 3 of the roadworks........1st section was ebbw vale to merthyr and section 2 was abergavenny to gilwern

they are now starting to clear the trees for section 4 of the road which is dowlais top (merthyr) to hirwaun


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

this is the brynmawr section of the road - look how many different road sectiosn there are in this photo......for me its a tremendous feet of engineering to get this road upgraded and remove so many roundabouts and to increase the flow of traffice

when its completed they would have removed the use of 6 roundabouts in 22 miles of road, helping the flow of traffic through the valley


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## Andy in Germany (29 Jun 2021)

THose pictures just make the sheer sense of entitlement even more astonishing: so much money and work and destruction so they can drive more safely, and still some people complain and call it an "insult" that they can't drive a bit faster to the next set of traffic lights.


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> THose pictures just make the sheer sense of entitlement even more astonishing: so much money and work and destruction so they can drive more safely, and still some people complain and call it an "insult" that they can't drive a bit faster to the next set of traffic lights.


and from ebbw vale to abergavenny, she will have to navigate zero roundabouts, when there used to be 4........only she wouldnt know that as she was only 14 when the roadworks started and never drove the old road as it was


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## sheddy (29 Jun 2021)

Geography question - would the NT site at Aberdulais be more (or less) noisy after the new road ?

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/aberdulais-tin-works-and-waterfall?


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## rockyroller (29 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> "the media" & cage pilots


unfortunately, the media is so funded by car manufacturers. at least over here it is. bike heads like us can't compete otherwise we would flood the airwaves!


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## Saluki (29 Jun 2021)

I tend to drive at around 55, in with the trucks, on motorways. My tatty old diesel Hatchback rewards me with 65mpg.
Pretty sure that I annoy other drivers at my 55mph on A roads. My car sits at a nice 2000rpm at 55, less and it doesn’t like 5th gear, and seems happy. I have never seen the need to drive at huge speeds on the road.

At work, I hear the men, and it is the men, whinging on about 20mph limits past schools (teach kids to use crossings), 30mph through villages (why can’t people look out for traffic and it’s their fault, they moved to a main road) and any other limit they come across. It seems that the company car drivers seem to think that they should be able to drive as fast as they want because they pay road tax. I think that they must all be compensating for something as they seem to believe that speed limits somehow emasculate them. Perhaps it’sa construction industry thing, it’s very male.


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> The bit of road under discussion here is right at the other end of the Heads of the Valleys about 40 miles away from Aberdulais. So I don't think the bit up the Clydach will affect it
> 
> A historic site that it may have affected is the Clydach Ironworks https://www.brynmawrhistoricalsociety.org.uk/clydach-ironworks/4588637090 where I used to go walking with my dad - who was a keen student of industrial history.


It hasnt effected the iron works……they are still there and now have a better entry road


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## jowwy (29 Jun 2021)

Saluki said:


> I tend to drive at around 55, in with the trucks, on motorways. My tatty old diesel Hatchback rewards me with 65mpg.
> Pretty sure that I annoy other drivers at my 55mph on A roads. My car sits at a nice 2000rpm at 55, less and it doesn’t like 5th gear, and seems happy. I have never seen the need to drive at huge speeds on the road.
> 
> At work, I hear the men, and it is the men, whinging on about 20mph limits past schools (teach kids to use crossings), 30mph through villages (why can’t people look out for traffic and it’s their fault, they moved to a main road) and any other limit they come across. It seems that the company car drivers seem to think that they should be able to drive as fast as they want because they pay road tax. I think that they must all be compensating for something as they seem to believe that speed limits somehow emasculate them. Perhaps it’sa construction industry thing, it’s very male.


Not all males feel or think that way……


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## Saluki (29 Jun 2021)

jowwy said:


> Not all males feel or think that way……


I know this. So many of my colleagues do Think and fell this way. The constant pre-meeting moaning does get one a bit disappointed in the human race sometimes. One whinged about roadworks and a 30 limit that his team put in place.
My bike bud rarely drives over 50. Says he gets where he is going in around the same time. He’s not wrong.


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## Andy in Germany (29 Jun 2021)

Saluki said:


> I tend to drive at around 55, in with the trucks, on motorways. My tatty old diesel Hatchback rewards me with 65mpg.
> Pretty sure that I annoy other drivers at my 55mph on A roads. My car sits at a nice 2000rpm at 55, less and it doesn’t like 5th gear, and seems happy. I have never seen the need to drive at huge speeds on the road.
> 
> At work, I hear the men, and it is the men, whinging on about 20mph limits past schools (teach kids to use crossings), 30mph through villages (why can’t people look out for traffic and it’s their fault, they moved to a main road) and any other limit they come across. It seems that the company car drivers seem to think that they should be able to drive as fast as they want because they pay road tax. I think that they must all be compensating for something as they seem to believe that speed limits somehow emasculate them. Perhaps it’sa construction industry thing, it’s very male.



We get this from both genders here; I always assumed it was a German thing.

Oddly they also complain about petrol prices...


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## tyred (30 Jun 2021)

Saluki said:


> I tend to drive at around 55, in with the trucks, on motorways. My tatty old diesel Hatchback rewards me with 65mpg.
> Pretty sure that I annoy other drivers at my 55mph on A roads. My car sits at a nice 2000rpm at 55, less and it doesn’t like 5th gear, and seems happy. I have never seen the need to drive at huge speeds on the road.
> 
> At work, I hear the men, and it is the men, whinging on about 20mph limits past schools (teach kids to use crossings), 30mph through villages (why can’t people look out for traffic and it’s their fault, they moved to a main road) and any other limit they come across. It seems that the company car drivers seem to think that and they should be able to drive as fast as they want because they pay road tax. I think that they must all be compensating for something as they seem to believe that speed limits somehow emasculate them. Perhaps it’sa construction industry thing, it’s very male.


I do the same really (and I am male) - my car is happiest at around 55 and I rarely push it any harder any more. It makes a noticeable difference to fuel consumption and makes no noticeable difference to journey times.

Of course everywhere I go I often have an Audi stuck to my bumper but they are the one getting stressed....

For thirteen years I had a 22 mile commute and I always drove it at a steady speed to minimise fuel consumption and was never once late in all that time, even in frost and snow (mostly rural roads which rarely got treated). Yet all I hear is people (and I agree it's mostly men) try to justify driving like an idiot so they can get to work on time and moan about things holding them up. Why not leave earlier and just relax?


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## Drago (30 Jun 2021)

Im a 55 man myself. Going quicker does nothing but waste fuel, add needless wear and tear, and gets you to the next roundabout or junction a bit quicker, where you usually end up having to stop anyway.

In the Volvo owners club (scotch eggs and picnic blankets optional) the XC90 owners forum is littered with people moaning about fuel economy, yet im cosistently getting 8 to 10 MPG more than any of them by the simple expedient of not drivng like a tool. People are incredibly thick and obtuse.


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## jowwy (30 Jun 2021)

ive done less than 2k miles in my car since the start of lockdowns last march as i work form home......fuel consumption is 55mpg ( according to the onboard computer) , which is pretty good and even if i did drive to work, the road i travel you cant get much over 35/40mph anyway. Even if i did detour up over the new heads of the valleys road, its currently at 40mph speed limit due to the roadworks and has been for the last 7yrs.......another reason why the comments made by the female driver, need to be taken with a pinch of salt. 

Oh and before this stretch was being worked on the old stretch from gilwern to abergavenny was being turned into a dual carriageway for 4yrs with the same 40mph speed limit, so thats 11yrs for 1 stretch of road having roadworks.......so again the female drivers comments are pretty useless to say the least, cause she was not driving that road at 10yrs old from ebbw vale to aber in 10mins lol


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## icowden (30 Jun 2021)

When I was young and rash, I drove quickly. Then I got a car that helpfully tells you how much fuel you are consuming and boy does that stuff go fast if you too are going fast. I now drive sedately for fuel efficiency and safety. It's also a *LOT* less stressful driving a bit slower.

I think it would also be helpful in driving tests / tuition to teach the pupil that a faster speed, doesn't usually mean a significant saving in time. If you are urban or suburban you just get to traffic lights faster. If you are on the motorway, unless you are going a *really* long way, the time saving over say 80mph compared to 70mph is really small.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Jun 2021)

I remember my dad's cautionary words to me when I set off on my first long drive after passing my test. "Don't be in a hurry, you won't get there any quicker"


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## Drago (30 Jun 2021)

"Better late in this life, than early in the next" is what my Auld feller told me.

And then as an encore he bought us a 416BHP car


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## PeteXXX (30 Jun 2021)

It's people who drive too slowly that causes accidents..
Scenario: 2 slow drivers heading towards each other, nicely in the centre of their respective lanes, both sporting Pork Pie hats worn at a jaunty angle. 2 fast drivers approach from behind and just _have _to overtake, thus running into each other. 
Had the slow two pulled over to let them past, no accident would have occurred. 

Simples..


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jun 2021)

PeteXXX said:


> It's people who drive too slowly that causes accidents..
> Scenario: 2 slow drivers heading towards each other, nicely in the centre of their respective lanes, both sporting Pork Pie hats worn at a jaunty angle. 2 fast drivers approach from behind and just _have _to overtake, thus running into each other.
> Had the slow two pulled over to let them past, no accident would have occurred.
> 
> Simples..



Tongue firmly in cheek 😂


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## Dogtrousers (30 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> "Better late in this life, than early in the next" is what my Auld feller told me.
> 
> And then as an encore he bought us a 416BHP car


I don't know what 416BHP means. Is it a lot?

When my dad was advising me I was about to set off in a clapped out rusty Austin 1300 that got terrible vibrations above about 65mph


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## tyred (30 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't know what 416BHP means. Is it a lot?
> 
> When my dad was advising me I was about to set off in a clapped out rusty Austin 1300 that got terrible vibrations above about 65mph


To put it in perspective, your Austin 1300 would have had around 55 or 60 bhp in standard trim.


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## Drago (30 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't know what 416BHP means. Is it a lot?


I think so. The one time I drove it I put my foot on the loud pedal and thought I'd stood on a land mine 

The 225BHP of my own car is much more sensible, and the 450NM makes it so relaxing just using a dribble of throttle to go anywhere.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Jun 2021)

Drago said:


> I think so. The one time I drove it I put my foot on the loud pedal and thought I'd stood on a land mine
> 
> The 225BHP of my own car is much more sensible, and the 450NM makes it so relaxing just using a dribble of throttle to go anywhere.


I just googled my current car. It has 65 BHPs, whatever they are. I'm not sure about NMs.


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## marzjennings (30 Jun 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I remember my dad's cautionary words to me when I set off on my first long drive after passing my test. "Don't be in a hurry, you won't get there any quicker"


So different to my old man, when I was very young and almost 50 years ago, he would challenge himself on how fast he could drive to Cornwall each summer holiday with the cousins. He'd pack us into the back of the Spitfire usually around 1 in the morning and wouldn't let off the accelerator until we pulled into our cousins village. He still drives like the devil's on his back and therefore apologies to anyone living near him. Same thing driving up to Nan's for Sunday lunch, doing a hundred up the Fosse Way was terrifying, especially when the fog lay thick across the dips in the road. Unfortunately I am my fathers son and my right foot only seems to have binary positions, on and off. Maybe when I hit 55 in a couple of years I'll take things a bit easier.


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