# Kids hand signals - tips?



## Yazzoo (20 Jul 2015)

Obviously I know practice is key but does anyone have any tips? Lack of confidence is the main problem for my son. I've been telling him to just 'hover' one hand (at a time!) over the handlebars for as long as possible but so it's right there should he need to put it back on the bars which is helping slightly but seems a long way away from being able to sit up and maintain a strong signal to other traffic!


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## MontyVeda (20 Jul 2015)

I remember trying to ride one handed when i was a nipper... scary stuff indeed. I recall 'hovering' and paying more attention to my hands proximity to the bar than what was ahead of me, which i'm sure didn't help. I also recall it being just as tricky trying to ride one handed with the other arm. I guess it's just a case of relaxing and being safe on the knowledge that physics is one your side.


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## ianrauk (20 Jul 2015)

Don't worry. He'll get it in time with practice. Don't push him too hard or show you if you are getting frustrated as it will only upset him.


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## Profpointy (20 Jul 2015)

I have two bikes, one I can happily ride no-handed, and the other I really can't. Some bikes are inherently more stable than others, so it's conceivable the lad's bike is hard to ride one-handed. . This may or may not be true in the lad's case, never mind how to find out or fix - unless you can ride it yourself like a circus clown as an experiment :-)

And of course he's just a lad, so it's all likely a bit tricky anyhow


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## User10119 (20 Jul 2015)

If it's a possibility I can _really_ recommend a bit of tandeming/tag-a-longing as a way of getting your kids confident with hand signals. 

Although we have developed a technique whereby I tell the littly to indicate and he pats me on the bum before sticking a hand out, thus affording an opportunity for a 'no, the _other_ right' correction if needed...


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## coffeejo (20 Jul 2015)

One of the guys in my cycling group teaches bikeability and he gets the kids to learn new skills without them realising it, so it'll be things like touch your head or knee for the one-handed balance, what colour car did we just pass for shoulder checks, etc.


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## mustang1 (20 Jul 2015)

ianrauk said:


> Don't worry. He'll get it in time with practice. Don't push him too hard or show you if you are getting frustrated as it will only upset him.


+1


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## jhawk (20 Jul 2015)

I'm still struggling with the fecking hand signals! As I've really poor balance, trying to signal with my left arm/hand is difficult, but the same isn't true for my right arm/hand. I can ride one handed with my left hand on the handlebars all day long, but when I switch to my right I'm all over the place!


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## Milkfloat (20 Jul 2015)

jhawk said:


> I'm still struggling with the fecking hand signals! As I've really poor balance, trying to signal with my left arm/hand is difficult, but the same isn't true for my right arm/hand. I can ride one handed with my left hand on the handlebars all day long, but when I switch to my right I'm all over the place!



So to turn left, do you perform 3 right turns and go completely around the block?


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## G3CWI (20 Jul 2015)

I struggle too. I have to turn right off a steep decent on my way to work. I need both hands to brake and one hand to signal.


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## mjr (20 Jul 2015)

jhawk said:


> As I've really poor balance, trying to signal with my left arm/hand is difficult, but the same isn't true for my right arm/hand. I can ride one handed with my left hand on the handlebars all day long, but when I switch to my right I'm all over the place!


Did you know that there's a right-hand signal for turning left? No? Nor do most motorists so it's not really much help  oh and you're in Canada where you drive on the wrong side and hand signals are probably different.



G3CWI said:


> I struggle too. I have to turn right off a steep decent on my way to work. I need both hands to brake and one hand to signal.


Do a Copenhagen turn? Or fit a backpedal brake


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## Yazzoo (20 Jul 2015)

coffeejo said:


> One of the guys in my cycling group teaches bikeability and he gets the kids to learn new skills without them realising it, so it'll be things like touch your head or knee for the one-handed balance, what colour car did we just pass for shoulder checks, etc.



I like this ^^^ will be attempting it next time we ride!

I know it's just practice and time etc but he's so keen to ride everywhere at the moment, I'd feel a lot safer if he signalled better!


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## Drago (20 Jul 2015)

And the other thing with hand signals is knowing when to do them. If there's no one around who'll benefit from you doing one then dont. Too many people on the road in all types of vehicles simply use them as a substitute for looking,


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## mjr (20 Jul 2015)

And too many people don't signal just because they didn't realise anyone was looking


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## machew (20 Jul 2015)

In Canada, It's

Left Turn: Left arm straight out.

Right Turn: Left arm bent up at the elbow.

Stop/slow down: Left arm bent down at the elbow.


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## Drago (20 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> And too many people don't signal just because they didn't realise anyone was looking



And that's where your observation skills come in. It forces you to consciously look properly before making a decision to indicate.


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## mjr (20 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> And that's where your observation skills come in. It forces you to consciously look properly before making a decision to indicate.


In the problem case I'm describing, I'm not the one who fails to indicate and they won't indicate no matter how hard I stare at them...


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## Drago (20 Jul 2015)

Of course, some people don't indicate because they're HUA.

The whole indicate-only-if-necessary observation exercise comes from advanced driving, and has been proven since the 1930s to work very effectively as an aid to good observation.


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## Cyclist33 (21 Jul 2015)

Yazzoo said:


> Obviously I know practice is key but does anyone have any tips? Lack of confidence is the main problem for my son. I've been telling him to just 'hover' one hand (at a time!) over the handlebars for as long as possible but so it's right there should he need to put it back on the bars which is helping slightly but seems a long way away from being able to sit up and maintain a strong signal to other traffic!


Maybe ride with him until he is able to do it alone..?


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## summerdays (21 Jul 2015)

Get him to sit up and look ahead, if he looks down he puts more weight onto the bars, making him wobble more.


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## mickle (21 Jul 2015)

Forget about indicating left. It serves no useful purpose.


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## Profpointy (21 Jul 2015)

mickle said:


> Forget about indicating left. It serves no useful purpose.



quite! Although there's the odd exception, it tends to encourage left hookings round the corner and people turning right across your path into your left turn. I would indicate left to help someone pull out who was otherwise waiting for me but only if the risks mentioned are not present


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## Yazzoo (21 Jul 2015)

Drago said:


> Of course, some people don't indicate because they're HUA.


HUA?


Cyclist33 said:


> Maybe ride with him until he is able to do it alone..?


I do ride with him, but always nip in front/out to side etc to signal at junctions as his are 'blink and you miss it'


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## mjr (21 Jul 2015)

Profpointy said:


> quite! Although there's the odd exception, it tends to encourage left hookings round the corner and people turning right across your path into your left turn. I would indicate left to help someone pull out who was otherwise waiting for me but only if the risks mentioned are not present


If you don't indicate when turning left, I hope you give way to people walking across the road you're turning into... but generally, I'm yet again giving thanks that I'm usually riding in a town not completely full of inconsiderate nobbers. I don't remember anyone here taking a left-turn signal as an invitation to cut me up. Then again, it may be because I'm a six-ish-footer on a big black roadster.


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## Profpointy (21 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> If you don't indicate when turning left, I hope you give way to people walking across the road you're turning into... but generally, I'm yet again giving thanks that I'm usually riding in a town not completely full of inconsiderate nobbers. I don't remember anyone here taking a left-turn signal as an invitation to cut me up. Then again, it may be because I'm a six-ish-footer on a big black roadster.



Um, yes I do thank you very much car or bike . Had an argument with some twit on the ctc site complaining about pedestrians walking across junctions without looking - out of my way -parp parp, or is it ting ting. He wouldn't have it that he (cyclist) was in the wrong. And indicating wouldn't have given him more right to barge through pedestrians either


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## Andy_R (21 Jul 2015)

I teach Bikeability, and teach other other instructors too. One trick is to get the kids to look straight ahead, not (as has already been mentioned) down, or in the direction they're signalling (very common). The easiest way is to stand infront of them about 20 yards away, facing them. As they ride towards you, keep on telling them "Look at me, look at me, point that way, keep on looking at me". Works.


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## mjr (21 Jul 2015)

Profpointy said:


> Had an argument with some twit on the ctc site complaining about pedestrians walking across junctions without looking


Yes, I remember - I think it was with the rider who thinks A-barriers are fine because if he can fit through then so can everyone


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## G3CWI (21 Jul 2015)

mickle said:


> Forget about indicating left. It serves no useful purpose.




I can think of some useful purposes it might serve. Car waiting to turn out of a road you are turning left into can proceed if you have signaled your intention to turn. Similarly a pedestrian waiting to cross might appreciate your signal. A cyclist on your wheel might find it useful too.


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## mjr (21 Jul 2015)

G3CWI said:


> I can think of some useful purposes it might serve. Car waiting to turn out of a road you are turning left into can proceed if you have signaled your intention to turn. ...


While I agree with the other two, a motorist should not proceed just because oncoming traffic is signalling.


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## jhawk (21 Jul 2015)

[QUOTE 3809736, member: 259"]I'm like that too - it's not the best way round if you live in a country where they drive on the right, is it?[/QUOTE]

Indeed! I'm used to it now though. I've found that people from other parts of the country give me far more room to ride than those that live locally - and as I'm about the only cyclist on the damn roads all the time - it's not like they don't know I'm here!


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## mickle (21 Jul 2015)

G3CWI said:


> I can think of some useful purposes it might serve. Car waiting to turn out of a road you are turning left into can proceed if you have signaled your intention to turn. Similarly a pedestrian waiting to cross might appreciate your signal. A cyclist on your wheel might find it useful too.



Yah - I suppose... Ped waiting to cross the road I'm turning in to? It's their priority and I'll stop for them. Likewise, if a ped is crossing farther up the road I'll let them know I'm turning off. Otherwise my signalling or not signalling shouldn't make any difference to the behaviour of anyone else. The drivers can be kept guessing. My safety is more important than their two seconds.


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## slowmotion (21 Jul 2015)

If you don't have the confidence or balancing skills to stick your arm out horizontal at shoulder level, it's a whole lot easier to stick it out at somewhere between nipple and navel height. Try it.


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## Andy_R (21 Jul 2015)

mickle said:


> Yah - I suppose... Ped waiting to cross the road I'm turning in to? It's their priority and I'll stop for them. Likewise, if a ped is crossing farther up the road I'll let them know I'm turning off. Otherwise my signalling or not signalling shouldn't make any difference to the behaviour of anyone else. *The drivers can be kept guessing*. My safety is more important than their two seconds.



Drivers who have to guess are more likely to make stupid mistakes, quite likely involving you. Signalling your intent is a lot safer than not.


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## mickle (21 Jul 2015)

Andy_R said:


> Drivers who have to guess are more likely to make stupid mistakes, quite likely involving you. Signalling your intent is a lot safer than not.



How exactly? If I'm turning left and fail to indicate a following driver is less likely to overtake through the corner. less likely to speed up on my tail in anticipation of me turning left 'out of his way'. The driver sitting waiting to pull out of the road I'm pulling into is less likely to pull out - and this keeps my options open, if for example I fail to make the turn through tyre failure/ice whatever it leaves me a clear road ahead. 

Happy for you to try to convince me otherwise ...


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## summerdays (22 Jul 2015)

mjray said:


> While I agree with the other two, a motorist should not proceed just because oncoming traffic is signalling.


If I'm signLling left to the driver in the side road it's only a short signal after making eye contact. If you mean I could be turning left beyond the junction then I'd be nuts to start signalling before passing the one with a car in it.


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## GetAGrip (22 Jul 2015)

summerdays said:


> If I'm signLling left to the driver in the side road it's only a short signal after making eye contact. If you mean I could be turning left beyond the junction then I'd be nuts to start signalling before passing the one with a car in it.


Also highly unlikely that you've left your left arm out in an indicating position since joining the road three junctions back


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## Andy_R (22 Jul 2015)

mickle said:


> How exactly? If I'm turning left and fail to indicate a following driver is less likely to overtake through the corner. less likely to speed up on my tail in anticipation of me turning left 'out of his way'. The driver sitting waiting to pull out of the road I'm pulling into is less likely to pull out - and this keeps my options open, if for example I fail to make the turn through tyre failure/ice whatever it leaves me a clear road ahead.
> 
> Happy for you to try to convince me otherwise ...


I've had more people left hook me when I didn't signal, cos they simply "must get ahead", than those who have hung back and waited for me when I have signaled. Personal experience.


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## Cyphrex (3 Sep 2015)

machew said:


> Left Turn: Left arm straight out.
> 
> Right Turn: Left arm bent up at the elbow.
> 
> Stop/slow down: Left arm bent down at the elbow.





Don't use the other hand as it could confuse a vehicle driver and if you have to grab the brakes suddenly you might do an endie (launch yourself over the handlebars); why most right brake sets are for the rear tire to slow you down rather than an abrupt stop where your body keeps going!


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## mjr (3 Sep 2015)

machew said:


> In Canada, It's
> 
> Left Turn: Left arm straight out.
> 
> ...


Isn't the left arm up more widely used around the world for "stopping/slowing"?


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## ufkacbln (3 Sep 2015)

Lateral thinking, and purely by chance

My nephews and nieces used to stay with us for weekends

We used to take them out on the U + 2

Making signalling part of the ride and making the "correct" signal at the "correct r time" as a competition worked well

Jelly babies were awarded at each occasion - 2 for the closest 1 for a signal

It then seemed to be natural when they returned to their own bikes


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