# Turbo training



## biggs682 (18 Oct 2013)

just said yes to my first turbo trainer in an aim to get a bit fitter , so i am intending to start off with 2 or 3 half an hr sessions per week .

this is on top of my measly 7 miles a day commuting , and the occasional early weekend 10 miler .

the fun starts next week


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## dan_bo (18 Oct 2013)

Faith No More's 'King for a day....' Helps greatly I find.


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## Dibs (18 Oct 2013)

I'd like to get a Turbo trainer, but too much money just now...


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## Dusty Bin (18 Oct 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Faith No More's 'King for a day....' Helps greatly I find.



The album, or the track? 'Digging the Grave' is a better turbo track...


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## VamP (18 Oct 2013)

Random Access Memories final track - Contact - makes a stupendously good workout tune.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Oct 2013)

VamP said:


> Random Access Memories final track - Contact - makes a stupendously good workout tune.


Shame that the rest of the album is terrible. They just can't produce anything like HBFS


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## dan_bo (18 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> The album, or the track? 'Digging the Grave' is a better turbo track...



'Get out' gets me revving.


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## VamP (18 Oct 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Shame that the rest of the album is terrible. They just can't produce anything like HBFS


 
It's a more pop sound. More mainstream, but I wouldn't call it terrible.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Oct 2013)

VamP said:


> It's a more pop sound. More mainstream, but I wouldn't call it terrible.


Mediocre is my final offer


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## VamP (18 Oct 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Mediocre is my final offer



Deal.


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## biggs682 (19 Oct 2013)

have had the wicked idea of strapping family Tandem to turbo so 2 of us can exercise at same tine


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## biggs682 (27 Oct 2013)

2 x 30 min solo sessions and ok not the same as road riding but is easier in current weather conditions


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## Cletus Van Damme (28 Oct 2013)

I've just started using my turbo trainer again. I had good intentions of keeping on commuting to work throughout the winter and I will when I can, but when it's blowing a gale and raining like it is so often in Cumbria I will give it a miss.

I have tried listening to music on it but it's still boring. I am awaiting delivery of a music stand to put my tablet on and watch some videos on it, hopefully this will add some interest to the monotony of this activity


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## Jason.T (28 Oct 2013)

I've been thinking of getting a turbo trainer and have heard they can be boring but after a quick search there are some free turbo training websites out there with interval training, don't know if they are any good but I'm sure someone can answer that


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## jazzkat (28 Oct 2013)

I used to use a free website that bleeped when the interval was over. I stopped using it when I bought my first sufferfest video much more fun and much harder to lose concentration on the interval IMHO. I have tried watching videos and tv/youtube/dvds etc but I get bored and start clock watching after 15mins.


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## Jason.T (28 Oct 2013)

jazzkat said:


> I used to use a free website that bleeped when the interval was over. I stopped using it when I bought my first sufferfest video much more fun and much harder to lose concentration on the interval IMHO. I have tried watching videos and tv/youtube/dvds etc but I get bored and start clock watching after 15mins.


How do the sufferfest's work, does it tell you how steep a climb is or do you just guess it yourself from what you can see


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## jazzkat (29 Oct 2013)

Jason.T said:


> How do the sufferfest's work, does it tell you how steep a climb is or do you just guess it yourself from what you can see


It uses an effort scale of 1-10 with one being easy and 10 being vomiting your lungs out! All turbo trainers are different so some you would click up a resistance while others you would change up a gear. It also gives cadence suggestions so for instance it might say a cadence of 70 and an effort of 8/10 - that might equal a stiff climb.


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## Irishrich (4 Nov 2013)

Just ordered my first turbo trainer tonight, a Riva Stealth. Had been toying with the idea for weeks but after being washed out on a cold Saturday ride on my own I realised that it's not always the best option to go outside on a bike even though you want to. The turbo should give me more flexibility to get on a bike for training as I work fairly long hours so only one weekend morning is usually free to get out on my bike with my club. Have looked into sufferfest and will probably give it a go although I do have my pc hooked up to the tv as a multimedia system so can put on youtube videos or other training videos from t'internet. Can't wait to try it later this week!


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## biggs682 (4 Nov 2013)

@Irishrich must admit i have refused to turbo for years but i like many others need to improve my fitness and i point blank to join a gym so went turbo option . 2 weeks in and still doing 20 - 30 min spells at least 3 times a week along with what ever else exercise i manage , will try to step it up soon to 30 - 40 min sessions and go from there .

i hope you enjoy it


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## Irishrich (4 Nov 2013)

I'm actually looking forward to trying it in a strange sort of way as it's so convenient to use compared to getting my gym gear together, driving 6 miles to the gym then pass the time for an hour on various machines before heading home. From what I've read the trick is to put on a good training vid like suffferfest to keep you focused and motivated otherwise it can be very boring. Will look into the vids before it arrives so that im fully prepared.

Also read that people say you should use a turbo tyre but at £30 + I think I'll put on one of my spare tyres that never get used since upgrading to ultremos.


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## LimeBurn (4 Nov 2013)

I've had my turbo since the beginning of the year, a tacx, and I hated it at first and like most people who buy a turbo on a whim it got put into the shed to gather dust and cobwebs. Then as luck would have it my son moved out to go to Uni and his bedroom became spare so the turbo got set up in there permanently and I purchased a couple of the sufferfest videos - call me a masochist but I love it now (in an awful awful way that is), its made a noticeable difference to my fitness & weight loss and now I dont think I would be without it. I find its not just for bad weather but also like today its been fantastic weather for cycling here but with time constraints I've been unable to make the most it, but while the family was watching tv this evening I thought I would jump on and have a quick session of Sufferfests Angels - I now feel like I've been out for a hard ride and have that smug feeling that I've had my exercise for the day.


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## Phil485 (4 Nov 2013)

I'm enjoying my Turbo too, but that may still be a new toy novelty thing. 
Is anyone using workouts on their garmin with their turbo? Any idea of where to get some good workouts from? I'm happy with music or videos at the moment, just need some structure to my training.


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## Keegs (11 Nov 2013)

i've just bought an Elite Elastogel Turbo Trainer and was really looking forward to giving it a go at the weekend, however i set it up following the instructions and it is leaning very slightly to the left. when i get on it and pedal this lean gets more exagerated and feels like it will damage the frame so i had to get off. Tried resetting a few times and checked the floor is level etc..... any ideas that migt help me would be greatly appreciated. Ta


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## berty bassett (11 Nov 2013)

just been given permission to move turbo into spare bedroom out of shed  yeh !


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## Irishrich (11 Nov 2013)

I've only been on the turbo for a few minutes to test it out but I can tell that it's going to give me a great workout. The noise does get loud once you get up to speed on higher tensions but I'm in our converted garage room at the end of the house so it's not bothering anyone, yet. 

Had a question, hopefully someone can help: I want to put my good bike (summer bike) on the turbo and use my winter bike for the next few months. My good bike has nice wheels and tyres and I heard that the turbo can ruin the rear wheel after prolonged use so should I buy a basic rear wheel and fit an old tyre just for turbo training? My winter bike is all set up for going out on the road so I can't take any parts or wheels off it.


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## screenman (11 Nov 2013)

When I first started using a turbo I bought an old banger of a racer for £25 and stuck that on it, as long as your position is the same as your other bikes I see no difference. Watch out for rust on your turbo bike, they do not like all that salty sweat.


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## Hip Priest (11 Nov 2013)

My turbo is in a lock-up garage with no electricity, so I can't watch sufferfest or anything like that. 

It's just me, the bike and the pain


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## screenman (11 Nov 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> My turbo is in a lock-up garage with no electricity, so I can't watch sufferfest or anything like that.
> 
> It's just me, the bike and the pain



Think of the benefits. You could download them to a laptop and watch that, but on your own in the dark and cold surely that is a self imposed sufferfest.


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## just jim (11 Nov 2013)

Irishrich said:


> I've only been on the turbo for a few minutes to test it out but I can tell that it's going to give me a great workout. The noise does get loud once you get up to speed on higher tensions but I'm in our converted garage room at the end of the house so it's not bothering anyone, yet.
> 
> Had a question, hopefully someone can help: I want to put my good bike (summer bike) on the turbo and use my winter bike for the next few months. My good bike has nice wheels and tyres and I heard that the turbo can ruin the rear wheel after prolonged use so should I buy a basic rear wheel and fit an old tyre just for turbo training? My winter bike is all set up for going out on the road so I can't take any parts or wheels off it.



Hmm, well a turbo trainer can flatten out your nice tyre, and leaves sooty tyre deposits (that used to be your nice tyre) on the floor. After flattening off a couple of tyres I got a Continental trainer tyre, and a surplus wheel. It was a mare to get on, but worth it. It's a lot quieter and hard-wearing.


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## biggs682 (11 Nov 2013)

still enjoying using mine at present i have a hardtail mtb strapped to it at mo might be swapping that for a racer soon so will see how much extra work out that gives me


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## Irishrich (11 Nov 2013)

> Hmm, well a turbo trainer can flatten out your nice tyre, and leaves sooty tyre deposits (that used to be your nice tyre) on the floor. After flattening off a couple of tyres I got a Continental trainer tyre, and a surplus wheel. It was a mare to get on, but worth it. It's a lot quieter and hard-wearing.



Thanks for the input. I have a couple of spare tyres off my winter bike that have hardly been used so can fit one to the rear wheel of my good bike for turbo training. My only worry was if it could affect the actual wheel after alot of use as the wheel is much more expensive than a cheap tyre to replace.


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## just jim (11 Nov 2013)

In the end I couldn't be bothered levering tyres off, so the ideal scenario was just to wheech off the trainer wheel and put on the good one when I wanted to visit the outside world. With the old wheel I wasn't too worried about banjaxing it.. I say this more in the past tense because I now go to spinning class through the dark days of winter.


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## LimeBurn (12 Nov 2013)

I also got bored of swapping tyres back & forth so bought an old wheel off a bike recycle centre and stuck an old tyre on and now use that on the turbo and its a quick swap if the weather is kind to me and I fancy a bit of road time.


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## dickyknees (12 Nov 2013)

biggs682 said:


> still enjoying using mine at present i have a hardtail mtb strapped to it at mo might be swapping that for a racer soon so will see how much extra work out that gives me



Are there any obvious benefits to use a racer on the turbo as opposed to a MTB?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Nov 2013)

dickyknees said:


> Are there any obvious benefits to use a racer on the turbo as opposed to a MTB?


Little to no benefit


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## biggs682 (12 Nov 2013)

dickyknees said:


> Are there any obvious benefits to use a racer on the turbo as opposed to a MTB?



only used mtb as that is my spare commuting bike , i cant see any real benefit other than easier going on the gearing


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## dickyknees (12 Nov 2013)

I too have my old MTB on the turbo - same perceived effort, same heart rate zones / cadence and same resistance on the turbo, just different handlebars.


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## Irishrich (14 Nov 2013)

Just wanted to relay my thoughts on turbo training after my second session on it today. I have kindly been loaned a few of the sufferfest dvds by one of my club mates and I have to say it makes turbo training very focused and tough, but much better I imagine than pedalling away watching the news or coronation street. First session was 40 minutes of 'The Hunted'. I had planned to do the whole hour but think I pushed myself too hard on the climbs and felt a bit dizzy . 
Second session was today when I decided to try the 20 minute 'Extra Shot'. I pushed myself hard for the full 20 minutes and can feel the burn in my legs even tonight. Have to say I'm hooked and my road cycling can only benefit from this extra training indoors. Need a fan for sure though!


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## biggs682 (15 Nov 2013)

i think i need to start pushing a bit harder and longer next week


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## welsh dragon (15 Nov 2013)

I am up to 40 mins at a time on the trainer. I watch things like falling skies and ncis. I am feeling much better especially now I have bought some cycling shorts. I think by the end of the winter my fitness will be great.


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## Julia9054 (15 Nov 2013)

Just got myself a turbo trainer and have been doing 30 min sessions. I would like to use sufferfest - my question is, will I be able to use them without owning heart rate monitor, power meter, cadence meter etc. I don't have any of these things.
Also, how fit do you have to be? I don't want to buy one and then get demoralised because it's way too hard!


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## welsh dragon (15 Nov 2013)

I'm not bothering. I am just going to push myself as far as I feel I can go. I am going for time spent on trainer at first rather than all the other stuff that gets in the way. I will try working my way up to 1 hours at a time 4 or five days a week instead of 4o mins 3 times a week. will see how things go from there.


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## Irishrich (15 Nov 2013)

You can use Sufferfest without any additional aids. It tells yolu what effort you should be putting in out of 10 so you need to judge how hard you can push. Eg, it says 7/10 for 4 mins then you have a fair idea it's a pretty tough 4 mins but not lung busting. Your own fitness won't stop you from doing it as the effort you put in is based on what you can manage so anyone can do it. I dont have any HRM or power meters, just me and the bike, and the sufferfest on the tv. Get it, it's amazing.


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## Julia9054 (15 Nov 2013)

Thanks for that - I'll get one. I am aiming to increase my aerobic fitness. I have strong legs but when cycling it's my breathing that let's me down


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## flatflr (26 Nov 2013)

Just set up my first turbo trainer (Tacx Satori) with the road bike and an old wheel, gave it a quick blast and it feels good. Need to get to the LBS for a specific tyre. I got a DVD with it (the Dordogne video), turns out that I road some of the roads while I was out there visiting my brother and his family in the summer.


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## madpensioner (29 Nov 2013)

biggs682 said:


> just said yes to my first turbo trainer in an aim to get a bit fitter , so i am intending to start off with 2 or 3 half an hr sessions per week .
> 
> this is on top of my measly 7 miles a day commuting , and the occasional early weekend 10 miler .
> 
> the fun starts next week


Ive had a turbo for 3 years - I do 2/3 one hr sessions per week in winter - if you go on line there is a site which will provide you with one which will suit you.
All you need is a CD player - a set of head phones - and the time will fly by.

cheers - Leigh ( mad pensioner )


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## biggs682 (29 Nov 2013)

must admit had a week off last week for 1 reason and another but got back on this morning for a quickish 30 min session without any load just Chris Evans on the head phones


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## Brad123 (5 Dec 2013)

I have been loaned a turbo trainer for winter. I used it at work , well before I start work. Did my first ride to day on it today, managed 36 min. Climbed of it finished. 
Want to get as fit as possible for spring time.


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## welsh dragon (5 Dec 2013)

I have upped my time to 1hr at a time. I intend to do this 5 times a week. Already my legs and bum dont hurt as much and I feel much better. Should be raring to go in the spring. Keep up the good work people and keep in touch with your progress. We can encourage each other.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Jason.T said:


> I've been thinking of getting a turbo trainer and have heard they can be boring but after a quick search there are some free turbo training websites out there with interval training, don't know if they are any good but I'm sure someone can answer that


Yes there are some good sites on line - i bought a turbo trainer some time - wouldnt be without it in winter - I do one hr a day 3/4 times a week - all you need is a cd player - set of head phones - and the time just flies 
The plan i use is 10 mins warm-up then 5 mins hard ( high gear ) 3 mins recovery (low gear)
repetative leaving approx 7/8 mins warm down - total 60 mins approx


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## Brad123 (6 Dec 2013)

I only have 30 to 45 min before work. Is that enough of a work out? This morning I did 8 min warm up 5 min hard then 30 sec sprint then 4 min recovery did it 3 times then cool down 5 min as I was running out of time. On week ends hope to do some longer rides 2 to 3 hours. 
Goal is to do some time trails next year and if I brave have a go at racing.


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> I only have 30 to 45 min before work. Is that enough of a work out? This morning I did 8 min warm up 5 min hard then 30 sec sprint then 4 min recovery did it 3 times then cool down 5 min as I was running out of time. On week ends hope to do some longer rides 2 to 3 hours.
> Goal is to do some time trails next year and if I brave have a go at racing.



I think quality rather than quantity is the name of the game. As long as you can do what your doing for say 3 times a week, then you're doing ok.


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> Yes there are some good sites on line - i bought a turbo trainer some time - wouldnt be without it in winter - I do one hr a day 3/4 times a week - all you need is a cd player - set of head phones - and the time just flies
> The plan i use is 10 mins warm-up then 5 mins hard ( high gear ) 3 mins recovery (low gear)
> repetative leaving approx 7/8 mins warm down - total 60 mins approx



And you just repeat this same thing every time you get on the turbo?


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## Dusty Bin (6 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> I only have 30 to 45 min before work. Is that enough of a work out? This morning I did 8 min warm up 5 min hard then 30 sec sprint then 4 min recovery did it 3 times then cool down 5 min as I was running out of time. On week ends hope to do some longer rides 2 to 3 hours.
> Goal is to do some time trails next year and if I brave have a go at racing.



The intervals sound ok - but how are you measuring effort?


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## Brad123 (6 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> The intervals sound ok - but how are you measuring effort?


At the moment HRM and cadence. Cadence hold it at 100 RPM and on a gear I can hold for 5 min. HR is about 160 to 165 then when I Sprint the 30 sec up to 175 I max out at 183. Need to do another max test.


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## Dusty Bin (6 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> At the moment HRM and cadence. Cadence hold it at 100 RPM and on a gear I can hold for 5 min. HR is about 160 to 165 then when I Sprint the 30 sec up to 175 I max out at 183. Need to do another max test.



ok - I would not worry about cadence on a turbo at all. If you are holding an effort for a fixed duration, I would suggest your target measure should be intensity, not cadence. There is no problem with varying your cadence during the interval, provided you are holding the effort constant.


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## VamP (6 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> At the moment HRM and cadence. Cadence hold it at 100 RPM and on a gear I can hold for 5 min. HR is about 160 to 165 then when I Sprint the 30 sec up to 175 I max out at 183. Need to do another max test.



If you want to improve TT performance I would suggest longer intervals. 2x20 or 3x10.


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## Phaeton (6 Dec 2013)

Dibs said:


> I'd like to get a Turbo trainer, but too much money just now...


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141060066...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I've just got one of these, seems strongly made & does what it says on the tin, I just need to get round to using it.

Alan...


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> If you want to improve TT performance I would suggest longer intervals. 2x20 or 3x10.



Agree!


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

Phaeton said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141060066...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I've just got one of these, seems strongly made & does what it says on the tin, I just need to get round to using it.
> 
> Alan...



That looks similar to mine. Not expensive and does what it says on the tin. Perfectly adequate for what you need it for.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> And you just repeat this same thing every time you get on the turbo?


Yes - but as i get fitter over the winter I use a higher and higher gear . The turbo has 5 settings - last winter i was on 3 this year i am on 4
I am also carefull to make sure that certain settings stay the same - when the bike is in the turbo i wind the roller in untill it is just touching
the wheel - i then wind in 2 turn - i believe that this replicates the pressure on the road
I hope this is helpful


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> Yes - but as i get fitter over the winter I use a higher and higher gear . The turbo has 5 settings - last winter i was on 3 this year i am on 4
> I am also carefull to make sure that certain settings stay the same - when the bike is in the turbo i wind the roller in untill it is just touching
> the wheel - i then wind in 2 turn - i believe that this replicates the pressure on the road
> I hope this is helpful



You could make MUCH more efficient use of your time!


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> You could make MUCH more efficient use of your time!


how


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

For a start, you could acknowledge that if you are completing multiple sessions as you describe per week, that you are not completing each one at a high enough intensity to force maximum adaptation, especially if you are able to complete each of your 3-4 sessions with the same success rate. You are essentially doing a VO2 max session, 3-4 times per week.

Then you could consider the type of training sessions you are neglecting. You are not doing anything to focus on your threshold, the single most important metric to any performance (or indeed any non-pootling) cyclist. Not only are you neglecting this, but by doing so, you are negatively effecting the effectiveness of your VO2 max sessions because you will not have the base to be able to perform the 5 min efforts are the required intensity.

You would be better off focussing on some high tempo/low threshold work 2 times per week, plus something at mid-high threshold and then ONE of your VO2 Max sessions. This session should be performed when you are most fresh and completed at the highest intensity possible.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> For a start, you could acknowledge that if you are completing multiple sessions as you describe per week, that you are not completing each one at a high enough intensity to force maximum adaptation, especially if you are able to complete each of your 3-4 sessions with the same success rate. You are essentially doing a VO2 max session, 3-4 times per week.
> 
> Then you could consider the type of training sessions you are neglecting. You are not doing anything to focus on your threshold, the single most important metric to any performance (or indeed any non-pootling) cyclist. Not only are you neglecting this, but by doing so, you are negatively effecting the effectiveness of your VO2 max sessions because you will not have the base to be able to perform the 5 min efforts are the required intensity.


how do you know i am not reaching my threshold - i have not tolled you what gears i am using - front or rear - or what cadence i am achieving


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> how do you know i am not reaching my threshold - i have not tolled you what gears i am using - front or rear - or what cadence i am achieving



You are probably exceeding your threshold in the 5 minute efforts (at least you should be). However, 5 minute efforts alone are not exactly ideal for developing your long term sustainable power.

I know you are not doing any dedicated threshold work because you have essentially told us what you are doing in your post and that does not include any dedicated threshold work.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> You are probably exceeding your threshold in the 5 minute efforts. However, 5 minute efforts alone are not exactly ideal for developing your long term sustainable power.
> 
> I know you are not doing any dedicated threshold work because you have essentially told us what you are doing in your post.


I understand what you are saying - but at 73yrs of age i have to be very carefull - I have done a lot of research in to what i can expect
- for example my lung capacity/capability is only 76 % of a 35yr olds - and i have been told that at my age ( no mater how fit i am )
a more gradual approach should be used with respect to reaching my threshold or even if i should be doing that anyway


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> I understand what you are saying - but at 73yrs of age i have to be very carefull - I have done a lot of research in to what i can expect
> - for example my lung capacity/capability is only 76 % of a 35yr olds - and i have been told that at my age ( no mater how fit i am )
> a more gradual approach should be used with respect to reaching my threshold or even if i should be doing that anyway



I personally think that at your age, you should concentrate on just keeping your body and joints working and movimg. I would not be to bothered about anything else. Exercise that is the key word here and at 73 you are doing a lot more than some people, so well done and keep up the good work.


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> I understand what you are saying - but at 73yrs of age i have to be very carefull - I have done a lot of research in to what i can expect
> - for example my lung capacity/capability is only 76 % of a 35yr olds - and i have been told that at my age ( no mater how fit i am )
> a more gradual approach should be used with respect to reaching my threshold or even if i should be doing that anyway



VO2 max work is higher intensity than threshold work and whilst you have not explicitly stated you are doing VO2 max work, you have implied it though mentioning the 5 minutes hard, 3 mins rest session, which is classically done at well above threshold and is a very intense session, therefore assuming you are doing what is a classic session (you haven't stated otherwise, and you really ought to have done so if this is the case) the 5 minute efforts will be ABOVE threshold :S i.e. what I am recommending is actually LESS intense than what you are currently doing.


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## Dusty Bin (6 Dec 2013)

If you aren't already, at 73 you probably do need to be guided by the advice of a medical professional before you go knocking out threshold intervals...


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## Rob3rt (6 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> If you aren't already, at 73 you probably do need to be guided by the advice of a medical professional before you go knocking out threshold intervals...



Similarly the VO2 Max efforts he is doing!


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> I personally think that at your age, you should concentrate on just keeping your body and joints working and movimg. I would not be to bothered about anything else. Exercise that is the key word here and at 73 you are doing a lot more than some people, so well done and keep up the good work.


I couldnt agree more with you - cheers ( I find that a glass of single malt whisky is of benefit at times )


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> If you aren't already, at 73 you probably do need to be guided by the advice of a medical professional before you go knocking out threshold intervals...


Yes i agree - I pay for a full medical every year - their advice is to maintain and if possible gradualy
improve


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

15916"]I couldnt agree more with you - cheers ( I find that a glass of sembarrassing. whisky is of benefit at times )[/quote]

Absolutely, but I do hope you don't drink and drive when your on the turbo trainer.  it could result in you uncermoniously falling off which could be highly embarassing.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> 15916"]I couldnt agree more with you - cheers ( I find that a glass of sembarrassing. whisky is of benefit at times )



Absolutely, but I do hope you don't drink and drive when your on the turbo trainer.  it could result in you uncermoniously falling off which could be highly embarassing.[/quote]
CHEERS


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> VO2 max work is higher intensity than threshold work and whilst you have not explicitly stated you are doing VO2 max work, you have implied it though mentioning the 5 minutes hard, 3 mins rest session, which is classically done at well above threshold and is a very intense session, therefore assuming you are doing what is a classic session (you haven't stated otherwise, and you really ought to have done so if this is the case) the 5 minute efforts will be ABOVE threshold :S i.e. what I am recommending is actually LESS intense than what you are currently doing.


Thanks for your reply - I think in future i should give my age before stating what i do i forget that i am talking to people who are half my age - with respect to the 5 min efforts - I am very careful


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> Thanks for your reply - I think in future i should give my age before stating what i do i forget that i am talking to people who are half my age - with respect to the 5 min efforts - I am very careful



Not everyone here is, 30. I am 57, and the turbo trainer for me is also about keeping my legs and joints working reasonably well over the winter period.


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## madpensioner (6 Dec 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> Not everyone here is, 30. I am 57, and the turbo trainer for me is also about keeping my legs and joints working reasonably well over the winter period.


Thats why you were the first one to reply when i stated my age - have another whisky


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## welsh dragon (6 Dec 2013)

madpensioner said:


> Thats why you were the first one to reply when i stated my age - have another whisky



Don't mind if I do. Cheers.


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## HLaB (6 Dec 2013)

dickyknees said:


> Are there any obvious benefits to use a racer on the turbo as opposed to a MTB?


A road bike (what you call a racer) is more Aerodynamic but if you use a TT helmet on the mtb it'll cancel that benefit out 

In seriousness if its road biking you want to do, a roadbike on the turbo will get you use to the position and gearing slightly better but I doubt there's much in it.


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## solidthegreat (8 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> The album, or the track? 'Digging the Grave' is a better turbo track...



It's a good tune, but we care a lot takes some beating.


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## Brad123 (9 Dec 2013)

When I do intervals and us my heart rate. After recovery for say 3 min my HR will be at 135BPM. When I start my next interval it takes a few minute to get back to were I want it to be.
Should I start to raise my HR before the interval starts? ( want to get back up to 155/160BPM)


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## Dusty Bin (9 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> When I do intervals and us my heart rate. After recovery for say 3 min my HR will be at 135BPM. When I start my next interval it takes a few minute to get back to were I want it to be.
> Should I start to raise my HR before the interval starts? ( want to get back up to 155/160BPM)



No. Allow your HR to climb through the interval and it will find its own level. Focus on the effort level, and work on maintaining that. Only use your HR as a guide. HR will always lag behind effort anyway...


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## Blue (10 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> When I do intervals and us my heart rate. After recovery for say 3 min my HR will be at 135BPM. When I start my next interval it takes a few minute to get back to were I want it to be.
> Should I start to raise my HR before the interval starts? ( want to get back up to 155/160BPM)


 You could try using cadence instead. If you keep all elements the same for each session (bike, tyre pressure, turbo settings etc) you may find that you get a better workout. Cardiac drift caused by various factors can mean that your intervals are less than consistent if guided by HR alone.


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## Brad123 (10 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> No. Allow your HR to climb through the interval and it will find its own level. Focus on the effort level, and work on maintaining that. Only use your HR as a guide. HR will always lag behind effort anyway...


Thanks for that. That is what I have been doing.



Blue said:


> You could try using cadence instead. If you keep all elements the same for each session (bike, tyre pressure, turbo settings etc) you may find that you get a better workout. Cardiac drift caused by various factors can mean that your intervals are less than consistent if guided by HR alone.


Cadence sensor is on the way Christmas. I do try make sure all the rest the same. Have notes that some days I can get my HR up and some days it a straggle.


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## Brad123 (11 Dec 2013)

Found my old wired cadence sencer / computer fitted it and gave it a go. Did 10 minute warm up 1 minute cadence 120 then rest 1 minute did it 10 times all it the same gear. WOW that was hard work. After 3 sets I was finished. Did have to man up for the last 7. That felt good after I finish all 10 sets


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## Dusty Bin (11 Dec 2013)

Ultimately, cadence is only a measure of how fast your pedals are turning though, I wouldn't want to use it as a training tool. Even HR is not ideal, but at least in most cases you can approximate HR to effort level, which is not the case with cadence.


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## Brad123 (11 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Ultimately, cadence is only a measure of how fast your pedals are turning though, I wouldn't want to use it as a training tool. Even HR is not ideal, but at least in most cases you can approximate HR to effort level, which is not the case with cadence.


Ok so if I wanted to do 1 minute interval like I just done how would I go about it? 
Do I go flat out? ( dont think I could hold flat out for 1 minute. )


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## Dusty Bin (11 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Ok so if I wanted to do 1 minute interval like I just done how would I go about it?
> Do I go flat out? ( dont think I could hold flat out for 1 minute. )



Hold the maximum effort you can sustain for 1 minute. The same principle applies to any other interval, of any other duration.


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## VamP (11 Dec 2013)

A good rule of thumb is that it should be in doubt whether you can complete the interval. If you feel like you could have gone harder afterwards, then you should have done.


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## Brad123 (11 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Hold the maximum effort you can sustain for 1 minute. The same principle applies to any other interval, of any other duration.


Thank you. I get it now. 


VamP said:


> A good rule of thumb is that it should be in doubt whether you can complete the interval. If you feel like you could have gone harder afterwards, then you should have done.


Thank you.


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## amaferanga (11 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> A good rule of thumb is that it should be in doubt whether you can complete the interval. If you feel like you could have gone harder afterwards, then you should have done.



Maybe so if you're only doing one interval, but for 1min intervals you'd probably be doing >8 so you need to hold back a little on the first few. If you go balls out on I interval #1 then you probably won't make it to interval 5 even at a similar effort (power).


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## VamP (11 Dec 2013)

I might hold back a tiny bit on the first one. But not the others.


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Dec 2013)

Try this one, I put front wheel on a stool and pretended I was climbing a mountain for an half an hour.


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## Dusty Bin (11 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Try this one, I put front wheel on a stool and pretended I was climbing a mountain for an half an hour.



I think we can file that one in the same bin as 'putting the fan behind you to simulate a tail wind'...


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## Peter Armstrong (11 Dec 2013)

Hope this helps


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## amaferanga (11 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> I might hold back a tiny bit on the first one. But not the others.



If you train with power you probably have a target anyway so there's no need to hold back. If you're not using power it's all guesswork anyway for such short intervals.


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## VamP (11 Dec 2013)

Yeah but for such short intervals I will overshoot my target on the first one anyway unless I consciously moderate the effort a bit.

But for the purposes of Brad123 question, he just needs to aim at perceived effort of the maximum he can manage in each interval, which will result in a much more appropriate intensity of training than the cadence method he has been using.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> *Ultimately, cadence is only a measure of how fast your pedals are turning* though, I wouldn't want to use it as a training tool. Even HR is not ideal, but at least in most cases you can approximate HR to effort level, which is not the case with cadence.


That is exactly why it is useful.
If you keep all other metrics the same (tyre pressure, gears, resistance etc) you will get a hard workout by maintaining that same pedal speed rather than slowing down as fatigue sets in - which is the natural thing to do as your HR drifts(which it will).


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Yeah but for such short intervals I will overshoot my target on the first one anyway unless I consciously moderate the effort a bit.
> 
> But for the purposes of Brad123 question, he just needs to aim at perceived effort of the maximum he can manage in each interval, which will result in a much more appropriate intensity of training than the cadence method he has been using.


 
What happens when fatigue sets in (which may be after 1 interval if it's overcooked)? He will slow down and and will not get a consistent session. Time on the turbo can be less than optimal if not measured in some way.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Try this one, I put front wheel on a stool and *pretended I was climbing* a mountain for an half an hour.


 Thats what the resistance settings on the turbo are for.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> He wasn't using cadence.
> 
> What happens when fatigue sets in (which may be after 1 interval if it's overcooked)? He will slow down and and will not get a consistent session. Time on the turbo can be less than optimal if not measured in some way.



I point you at post 87.

Cadence is a meaningless metric. Unless you're training leg speed.

For short intervals use PE as most useful proxy for power or if you have a decent fluid turbo with a reasonably repeatable power curve you can use the speed as a proxy. Obviously power meter is best.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Hold the maximum effort you can sustain for 1 minute. The same principle applies to any other interval, of any other duration.





Brad123 said:


> Ok so if I wanted to do 1 minute interval like I just done how would I go about it?
> Do I go flat out? ( dont think I could hold flat out for 1 minute. )


Flat out 1 minute intervals are of little value unless you are doing then for a very specific reason. Why are you doing them? Longer, less intense intervals will provide better all round training effects.

Why are you doing intervals at all? That's the first question to ask before designing your sessions.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> I point you at post 87.
> 
> Cadence is a meaningless metric. Unless you're training leg speed.
> 
> For short intervals use PE as most useful proxy for power or if you have a decent fluid turbo with a reasonably repeatable power curve you can use the speed as a proxy. Obviously power meter is best.


 To quote Graeme Obree from 'The Turbo Session' chapter of his book 'the Obree way', "...ultimately the only information that actually matters is average speed." If you can turn the pedals at a set average you are maintaining a set average speed.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> To quote Graeme Obree from 'The Turbo Session' chapter of his book 'the Obree way', "...ultimately the only information that actually matters is average speed." If you can turn the pedals at a set average you are maintaining a set average speed.



Progressive resistance turbos don't work like that.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Found my old wired cadence sencer / computer fitted it and gave it a go. Did 10 minute warm up 1 minute cadence 120 then rest 1 minute did it 10 times all it the same gear. WOW that was hard work. After 3 sets I was finished. Did have to man up for the last 7. That felt good after I finish all 10 sets


 The thing is to find a number that you can maintain for the interval/set. That gives you something to build on as you get stronger as you can increase the number after every few sessions and see your improvement. Was 120 too high a number to start? Are 1min efforts what you need anyway? All of this is why I enjoy turbo training, the numbers, the numbers


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Progressive resistance turbos don't work like that.


 I'll give you that one. I didn't notice the OP saying what type of turbo he was using.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Dec 2013)

This will be good. I didn't get the memo that The Obree Way was a training manual.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> This will be good. I didn't get the memo that The Obree Way was a training manual.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Progressive resistance turbos don't work like that.


 Is that what the OP is using? I glanced back through the thread and don't see any reference to such.


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## Brad123 (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> Flat out 1 minute intervals are of little value unless you are doing then for a very specific reason. Why are you doing them? Longer, less intense intervals will provide better all round training effects.
> 
> Why are you doing intervals at all? That's the first question to ask before designing your sessions.


If I just claimed on the turbo and did not have a plan what I was going to do I would get board and stop. Why 1 minute don't know just saw it some were and thought it sounded like a good work out. Did not find 120 cadence to high for the first 5 sets. But did straggle on the last 5 avg 115 to 120


Blue said:


> I'll give you that one. I didn't notice the OP saying what type of turbo he was using.


I got a CycleOps Fluid turbo trainer.

Why and I doing all this. Hopefully next year spring time I will me a much stronger rider. Going to join a club next year and start doing some TT. Might even have a go at racing. If my lovely wife will let me get a nice bike for it don't think my Triban will fit in. Also I am 40 so not that young .


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> If I just claimed on the turbo and did not have a plan what I was going to do I would get board and stop. Why 1 minute don't know just saw it some were and thought it sounded like a good work out. Did not find 120 cadence to high for the first 5 sets. But did straggle on the last 5 avg 115 to 120
> 
> I got a CycleOps Fluid turbo trainer.
> 
> Why and I doing all this. Hopefully next year spring time I will me a much stronger rider. Going to join a club next year and start doing some TT. Might even have a go at racing. If my lovely wife will let me get a nice bike for it don't think my Triban will fit in. Also I am 40 so not that young .


 40 is fine for doing TT. My PB's are 57:08 for 25miles and 22:41 for 10miles - one set at age 58 and the other age 59. My goal is to beat both next season, age 60.

I have never used that type of trainer so my prevoius comments may be too personal to my own equipment to be of much use to you. However, one thing is for sure, you need to heed the previously given advice to do longer intervals.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> That is exactly why it is useful.
> If you keep all other metrics the same (tyre pressure, gears, resistance etc) you will get a hard workout by maintaining that same pedal speed rather than slowing down as fatigue sets in - which is the natural thing to do as your HR drifts(which it will).



Sorry, I don't agree. You are training effort, not leg speed. HR is pretty much useless for a 1min interval anyway, but cadence is no better. Unless you have a PM, then the next best proxy would be wheel speed, assuming you have a computer which works off the rear. Accepting that speed is the best proxy for power implies no reliance on cadence and allows you to adjust your gearing/cadence in order to maintain that speed (ie power) - just like you would do in real life.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> To quote Graeme Obree from 'The Turbo Session' chapter of his book 'the Obree way', "...ultimately the only information that actually matters is average speed." If you can turn the pedals at a set average you are maintaining a set average speed.



That's true if you are on a fixed wheel. Road bikes have many gears though, so it is possible to maintain an average (or an effort level) by varying both your cadence and gearing.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> If I just claimed on the turbo and did not have a plan what I was going to do I would get board and stop. Why 1 minute don't know just saw it some were and thought it sounded like a good work out. Did not find 120 cadence to high for the first 5 sets. But did straggle on the last 5 avg 115 to 120
> 
> I got a CycleOps Fluid turbo trainer.
> 
> Why and I doing all this. Hopefully next year spring time I will me a much stronger rider. Going to join a club next year and start doing some TT. Might even have a go at racing. If my lovely wife will let me get a nice bike for it don't think my Triban will fit in. Also I am 40 so not that young .


 
One minute intervals are not going to help with the time trialling, although they are a useful building block (combined with other interval durations) for road racing. The most useful (and also suitable to a beginner) intervals are 2x 20 or 3 x10. These will help improve your threshold power, and as such will be beneficial to all types of riding, as well as being particularly beneficial for TTs.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Sorry, I don't agree. You are training effort, not leg speed. HR is pretty much useless for a 1min interval anyway, but cadence is no better. Unless you have a PM, then the next best proxy would be wheel speed, assuming you have a computer which works off the rear. Accepting that speed is the best proxy for power implies no reliance on cadence and allows you to adjust your gearing/cadence in order to maintain that speed (ie power) - just like you would do in real life.


 No need to apologise.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> That's true if you are on a fixed wheel. Road bikes have many gears though, so it is possible to maintain an average (or an effort level) by varying both your cadence and gearing.


 I don't use my gears on the turbo, maybe that's why my sessions produced good returns for me.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> I don't use my gears on the turbo, maybe that's why my sessions produced good returns for me.



Just think how much more benefit you could have had if you'd used it properly..


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Just think how much more benefit you could have had if you'd used it properly..


 Oh, that's something that will never be know - there isn't any such thing as the 'proper' way to train. As you will know, different things work for different people.
Given my age my results have been excellent and continue to improve year on year so I'm happy that I'm doing something right.

Keep 'em spinning my fellow forumite


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> Thats what the resistance settings on the turbo are for.


 
Yeah the resistance is turned up, but you cannot replicate a hill unless your at an angle, you use different muscles.

Unless you are joking then, Ha Ha.


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> *One minute intervals are not going to help with the time trialling*, although they are a useful building block (combined with other interval durations) for road racing. The most useful (and also suitable to a beginner) intervals are 2x 20 or 3 x10. These will help improve your threshold power, and as such will be beneficial to all types of riding, as well as being particularly beneficial for TTs.



Depends how they are conducted!

Do agree re 2x20's etc though!


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Yeah the resistance is turned up, but you cannot replicate a hill unless your at an angle, you use different muscles.
> 
> Unless you are joking then, Ha Ha.



TBH, your position on a bike going uphill is not much different to on the flat really, unless you are talking about very steep stuff, in which case, riding the turbo trainer is not the best preparation anyway.


----------



## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Yeah the resistance is turned up, but you cannot replicate a hill unless your at an angle, you use different muscles.
> 
> Unless you are joking then, Ha Ha.


Have you tried honking intervals at high resistance? I do those for fun () and they sure as hell burn my legs and spirit like any steep hill.

However, the bottom line with me is having fun on the bike - I'm not trying to win anything; or be a coach for that matter.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Depends how they are conducted!
> 
> Do agree re 2x20's etc though!


 

Serious question:

How do you use 1 minute intervals in your TT training?


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## Brad123 (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> One minute intervals are not going to help with the time trialling, although they are a useful building block (combined with other interval durations) for road racing. The most useful (and also suitable to a beginner) intervals are 2x 20 or 3 x10. These will help improve your threshold power, and as such will be beneficial to all types of riding, as well as being particularly beneficial for TTs.


Thanks all for the advice new to turbo training 
I cycle 2 miles to work then jump on the trainer every day/morning before work. Is that all I should me doing 2 x 20 or 3 x 10. Is their any other workouts that I could do. Have about 50 minute be for I have to go for a shower.


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Serious question:
> 
> How do you use 1 minute intervals in your TT training?



For example, I will occasionally do a few weeks of 1 minute on, 1 minute off x 10, rest then repeat.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

Is there not more strain on the back of the legs going uphill?


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> View attachment 34166
> 
> Is there not more strain on the back of the legs going uphill?



I don't know what the hell that diagram is, hah  But going by your text, I would say only if you are pulling up hard. Which you will only really do on proper steep stuff and mostly when standing up IME. The position of your legs relative to the pedals (when seated) will not change much.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


> Have you tried honking intervals at high resistance? I do those for fun () and they sure as hell burn my legs and spirit like any steep hill.
> 
> However, the bottom line with me is having fun on the bike - I'm not trying to win anything; or be a coach for that matter.


 
Yeah i do that, but i find the burn on the top of my legs, where as when i put it on an angle the burn comes to the back of my legs.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

I find that I climb different to being on a flat, am I climbing wrong? look i tend to push down from my heel when climbing due to the angle.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Do you get calf or achilles problems? I think toe/flat is more my kind of pedal action on flats and hills although I don't think too deeply about it.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

No, but ive just read this on another website which kind of suports my therory, *"Sitting in the saddle for as much of a long climb as possible is the most aerobically efficient way to the top. Sitting back in the saddle will recruit your glutes, giving the large muscles at the back of your thighs more leverage to pedal"*


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> For example, I will occasionally do a few weeks of 1 minute on, 1 minute off x 10, rest then repeat.


 
What sort of FTP % for the on part?


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Thanks all for the advice new to turbo training
> I cycle 2 miles to work then jump on the trainer every day/morning before work. Is that all I should me doing 2 x 20 or 3 x 10. Is their any other workouts that I could do. Have about 50 minute be for I have to go for a shower.


 
You could squeeze in a 5x5 once a week. 3 minute rests. Don't neglect warm ups. Once you're comfortable with the intensity (4-6 weeks I would say) you could add specific workouts like the Hour of Power. It will take you a while to learn to pace your intervals appropriately. They should be evenly paced across their duration ideally, and you should feel all done in at the end of each interval. Make your rests 5 minutes, between intervals. That doesn't mean get off the bike, just relatively easy pedalling for 5 minutes.

But a lot depends on your goals, strengths and weaknesses. Prescribing whole training programs over the internet without knowing your specifics is likely to be sub-optimal. My suggestion would be to get a good training book, and once you understand the principles, build your own training program to fit your goals, that way you can build periodization around your life schedule, and target your weaknesses.

But you won't go far wrong with a couple of months of a steady 2x20 diet.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> Is there not more strain on the back of the legs going uphill?


 
No.


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> What sort of FTP % for the on part?



I don't look at it, I just smash it as hard as I can and I only think about the current 1 minute interval, I don't "save myself" for the subsequent intervals. Probably comes out to about 150%.


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## Peter Armstrong (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> No.


 
yes


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Peter Armstrong said:


> yes



next, you'll be telling us you were serious about putting your front wheel on a stool to simulate hill climbs...


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I don't look at it, I just smash it as hard as I can and I only think about the current 1 minute interval, I don't "save myself" for the subsequent intervals. Probably comes out to about 150%.



One set of 10 or more?


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## michaelcycle (12 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Is their any other workouts that I could do. Have about 50 minute be for I have to go for a shower.



This e-book is less than £2:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cycling-Tur...qid=1386847517&sr=1-1&keywords=turbo+training

Gives you lots of different routines for the turbo for a beginner, what physical adaptations they are designed to trigger and how to progress...


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> One set of 10 or more?



Depends... hah!

But usually more than one set. Maybe 2-3. Or 30 secs on, 30 secs off and more sets.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Depends... hah!
> 
> But usually more than one set. Maybe 2-3. Or 30 secs on, 30 secs off and more sets.


 

More like CX intervals  but I'll try the 1 minute one in my next week's Vo2max block


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## Winnershsaint (12 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> But you won't go far wrong with a couple of months of a steady 2x20 diet.



Would this be at top end tempo/low threshold pace?


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## Rob3rt (12 Dec 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Would this be at top end tempo/low threshold pace?



IMO, starting out as such would be good, a couple of weeks doing that (sweet spot) so you can do it more than once a week and you can then start to increase the intensity until you are riding right in the middle to top end of your threshold zone for one of them.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Would this be at top end tempo/low threshold pace?



Whatever is the hardest effort you can hold/keep/sustain/endure for 20 minutes - do it at that pace.


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## VamP (12 Dec 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Would this be at top end tempo/low threshold pace?


 
Like Rob3rt said. Once you are used to that, make some sessions longer sweet spot (40-90 minutes) continuously, and maybe one/two a week at hard threshold. The principle to bear in mind is continuous increase in training load, so as to promote overload and resulting adaptations.

Your body is very inventive at finding ways of taking it easy, and it's your mind's job to keep finding additional ways of providing training stress.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Dec 2013)

Blue said:


>


If that's a training manual, the bible is all true.


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> If that's a training manual, the bible is all true.


 His words, not mine. Whilst I feel it contains a couple of good pointers I was not impressed with it overall.


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## Dusty Bin (12 Dec 2013)

To be fair, a 'training manual' written by a chap who used to make his bikes out of old washing machine parts was never going to be mainstream..


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## Blue (12 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> To be fair, a 'training manual' written by a chap who *used to make his bikes out of old washing machine parts* was never going to be mainstream..


 
Well used the bearings anyway!

Sliced saucepans for shoulder rests anyone??


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## Winnershsaint (13 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> Like Rob3rt said. Once you are used to that, make some sessions longer sweet spot (40-90 minutes) continuously, and maybe one/two a week at hard threshold. The principle to bear in mind is continuous increase in training load, so as to promote overload and resulting adaptations.
> 
> Your body is very inventive at finding ways of taking it easy, and it's your mind's job to keep finding additional ways of providing training stress.



Thanks for clarifying that. I have started to use this on recommendation of a friend.
http://www.flammerouge.je/.
Currently working on tempo intervals which are currently at 12½ minutes each at the lower end of the sweetspot. Each interval has three minutes recovery time. Session tops out at 3 x 15 minutes which I will do at the weekend. If I am reading things correctly, and I am by no means an expert or anything more than an a very average middle aged cyclist, it suggests that the greatest benefits in increasing FTP are to be found by working at the middle of threshold level suggesting that workouts out that fall either side of this produce diminishing returns on FTP improvement to the point where at recovery pace or at sprinting pace the effects are negligible. It also points out that physiologically working at this level there comes a point where the strain on the body increases while sustainable volume decreases. Effectively saying that working in the middle of the threshold level gives the best returns but at a price. The price being over-training and going backwards rather than forwards.


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## VamP (13 Dec 2013)

The sweetspot is all about maximizing training adaptation, for the largest sustainable volume of training. If you don't have much time, increase the intensity. Conversely if you have a lot of time throw in some long slow rides too. While training above FTP will not lead to large FTP improvements, it is essential for improving the body's adaptation for operating above the FTP. Which is what happens in racing. If all you want to do is cruise at close to FTP, then focus on raising FTP. If you want to be the complete cyclist, work all the systems.

This (famous) diagram shows the sweetspot in context of different training zones, showing the training effect and physiological strain interaction:








This diagram shows impact of training in different zones on the physiological systems. 






Your personal training mix should start from where you are now, your fitness, your strengths and weaknesses; incorporate how much training time you have available, and incorporate those elements that will achieve the biggest impact for the kind of riding that you want to get better at.


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## biggs682 (13 Dec 2013)

must admit i had a 20 min session on tues night and spent 2 mins doing gentle spinning and 1 min at high revolutions and just kept repeating it as often as i could , best work out since using turbo , just need to get out in to garage more often where poss


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## Winnershsaint (13 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> The sweetspot is all about maximizing training adaptation, for the largest sustainable volume of training. If you don't have much time, increase the intensity. Conversely if you have a lot of time throw in some long slow rides too. While training above FTP will not lead to large FTP improvements, it is essential for improving the body's adaptation for operating above the FTP. Which is what happens in racing. If all you want to do is cruise at close to FTP, then focus on raising FTP. If you want to be the complete cyclist, work all the systems.
> 
> This (famous) diagram shows the sweetspot in context of different training zones, showing the training effect and physiological strain interaction:
> 
> ...


Yes. I don't want to give the impression that it is just about improving FTP, it isn't. My training plan is all about all round improvement. Coupled with the base pace stuff are cascade sessions which have shorter interval times but are very definitely designed as threshold intervals even though http://www.flammerouge.je/ doesn't specify any particular speed/power (using fluid resistance turbo trainer with speed as proxy). There are also sessions designed to improve sprinting speed and TT , but they are not really what I am about improving at this point. As of tomorrow I will have a HRM with a Garmin Edge 500 with speed and cadence so it will be interesting to see what data I get out from that.


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## BigonaBianchi (13 Dec 2013)

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/team-bkool-cyclechat.144689/page-4

any bkoolers? join us


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## Winnershsaint (14 Dec 2013)

Did the 3 x 15 min intervals this afternoon. 3 minutes seems an inordinately short time to recover. Anyway, managed to get new Edge 500 working and did my intervals at roughly the same pace, although forgot to press lap button at start of the first 15 minutes so only had lap info for last two intervals. In terms of speed I was around 0.5 mph slower than suggested by Equipe Flamme Rouge but cadence averaged out at 85 rpm which is just about OK.


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## Brad123 (18 Dec 2013)

So far this week I have been working Hard on the turbo. Monday Did 3 x 10 Tuesday 4 x 5 And today 2 x 10 ran out of time. Hoping to do 2 x 20 tomorrow. The amount of water that come out of me. Don't know were it comes from. Yes I do have a fan. Dose any one know how to stop me from looking at the clock courting down. The last minute of any interval my leg just want to die. 
So far I am enjoying it. like the pain in a strange way. 
This morning on my 2nd interval I put it in a harder gear and push hard. After 2 minute, just wanted to change to a easy gear. but told my self just 1 more minute and some how made it to 10 minute. Felt good that I made it.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> This morning on my 2nd interval I put it in a harder gear and push hard. After 2 minute, just wanted to change to a easy gear. but told my self just 1 more minute and some how made it to 10 minute. Felt good that I made it.



If you need to push harder in an interval, then you weren't pushing hard enough to start with.


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## Rob3rt (18 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> If you need to push harder in an interval, then you weren't pushing hard enough to start with.



It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Did the 3 x 15 min intervals this afternoon. 3 minutes seems an inordinately short time to recover.



Why only 3 minutes for recovery? The training element is the 15 minute bit. Use as much time as you need to recover, or else you may not be able to complete the next interval at the required effort. I usually spin for about 10 mins in between 2x20s


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## Rob3rt (18 Dec 2013)

Between 15 minute intervals I would recover for 5-8 minutes.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?



True, but it sounds as though he pushed a lot harder, which suggests that the effort level was way off...


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## VamP (18 Dec 2013)

The duration of the rest period is as important to the overall workout impact as the duration of the interval itself. I agree that 3 minutes seems short, unless the purpose of the workout is to train your ability to recover between intervals at a cost to the threshold training component. I too would recover between 5 to 10 minutes for threshold intervals typically.


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## Brad123 (18 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?


That what I try do.
The interval I was holding 20 to 21 mph @ about 100 cadence. The 2nd interval the same speed but change gears now cadence was @ about 85. Which was a lot harder to hold that speed (I got a cycleops fluid turbo)


Dusty Bin said:


> True, but it sounds as though he pushed a lot harder, which suggests that the effort level was way off...


I was finish after the first interval but the 2nd one I did feel. Don't think I could have done the first one any harder


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## Rob3rt (18 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> That what I try do.
> The interval I was holding 20 to 21 mph @ about 100 cadence. The 2nd interval the same speed but change gears now cadence was @ about 85. Which was a lot harder to hold that speed (I got a cycleops fluid turbo)
> 
> I was finish after the first interval but the 2nd one I did feel. Don't think I could have done the first one any harder



20-21 mph at 100 rpm is no different to 20-21 mph @ 85 rpm in power terms.


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## Brad123 (18 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> 20-21 mph at 100 rpm is no different to 20-21 mph @ 85 rpm in power terms.


Hmm So how come it felt so much harder. I feel comfortable at 95 rpm could that be why it was harder


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Hmm So how come it felt so much harder. I feel comfortable at 95 rpm could that be why it was harder



Like I said before - I would just ignore cadence altogether, as it sounds like this is all getting very confusing and it really shouldn't be. It's the intensity of the effort level you are training, not the speed of the pedals.


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## Brad123 (18 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Like I said before - I would just ignore cadence altogether, as it sounds like this is all getting very confusing and it really shouldn't be. It's the intensity of the effort level you are training, not the speed of the pedals.


OK wont look at cadence any more just peddle (pedal thanks Dusty) hard.

Thanks again ALL for all the help.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

*pedal*


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## VamP (18 Dec 2013)

unless you're selling drugs on the internet while training


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## biggs682 (18 Dec 2013)

at last i have a cadance meter equipped computer for turbo bike to be installed


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

yep - cadence is really useful...


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## Winnershsaint (18 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Between 15 minute intervals I would recover for 5-8 minutes.


Some interesting responses here. I'll put this session into context. It is base pace, designed to prepare my aerobic base. The intervals vary in length from 10-15 minutes over three weeks. The recovery is always 3 minutes. EFR have suggested that this should be done at around 171w which equates to around 18 mph according to my turbo's power curve. I've done the longer intervals at around 17.5 mph which is very much at tempo/base pace. Putting a HRM on proved very interesting and somewhat confusing as none of the intervals strayed out of Level 2. Fwiw I'm mid-fifties, max HR around 165bpm, max HR in intervals was 135bpm around 75% of maximum. I am using these sessions to compensate for not going out on the road as a 'lone wolf'' during the winter months, so for the time being it is my long ride. The next block which I will start next week will involve 10 minute tempo/threshold sessions until mid Jan with decreasing recovery intervals starting at 4 minute down to 2 minutes now I have got the aerobic base in place. Will be interesting to see where this takes me. All comments are most welcome on this and tbh I don't take offence easily. I am quite aware of place in the pantheon of cycling. My main initial aim is to stop the steady bleed of speed in the latter quarter of rides which seems to take effect on false flat/ head wind sections. OPn mst of my favoured routes I am always heading W/SW so am frequently fighting against the wind whatever the strength.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Sorry, but riding intervals on the turbo at 75% of MHR is a complete and utter waste of what could and should be quality training time. In my opinion, there is not enough effort there to see any adaption or training benefit whatsoever. You will not prepare your aerobic base by riding in it for 15 minutes at a time.


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## Rob3rt (19 Dec 2013)

If you want to build your aerobic base, then try riding for hours at a time at an aerobic intensity, 15 mins of aerobic effort should not tax you at all!


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## Brad123 (19 Dec 2013)

Did my first 2 x 20 minute this morning. Boy 20 minutes is long. Started off on a nice pace watching some old tour de France was not going to look at the clock and see how I do. Must be at least half way (leg are starting to feel it) so had a quick look at the clock 4 minute had gone past. 
Well all I can think about is pedal hard, head down and got to the end. Same on the 2nd interval. 
Felt finish but good after I finish the 2nd interval.


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## Brad123 (19 Dec 2013)

Have just been looking on CycleOps site. Found a chart on power curve for the fluid turbo. looking at the chart it says at 20 mph(for eg) it about 260 watts. could I use the chart to get a rough idea on how hard I have work out if I hold a speed for ten 10 minute. 
Or I just mad and just keep pedal.


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## Rob3rt (19 Dec 2013)

Brad123 said:


> Have just been looking on CycleOps site. Found a chart on power curve for the fluid turbo. looking at the chart it says at 20 mph(for eg) it about 260 watts. could I use the chart to get a rough idea on how hard I have work out if I hold a speed for ten 10 minute.
> Or I just mad and just keep pedal.



I have not looked at the power curve. If you link it, I can probably check it against my power meter data given that I use a Cyclops Fluid2 trainer.


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## Brad123 (19 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I have not looked at the power curve. If you link it, I can probably check it against my power meter data given that I use a Cyclops Fluid2 trainer.


http://www.cycleops.cz/files/trainers.pdf This is what I was looking at.
Also just found this. look half way down the page http://thebikegeek.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/while-we-wait-for-better-and-better.html


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## VamP (19 Dec 2013)

The power curve shifts as the trainer warms up too, so just be aware of that. I wouldn't wan to get too reliant on the power curve. Use it as an intensity benchmark by all means, but it's not really suitable for a detailed analysis IMO.


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## Winnershsaint (19 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Sorry, but riding intervals on the turbo at 75% of MHR is a complete and utter waste of what could and should be quality training time. In my opinion, there is not enough effort there to see any adaption or training benefit whatsoever. You will not prepare your aerobic base by riding in it for 15 minutes at a time.


Indeed the HRM has pointed this out. I haven't intended to settle at this, but I wanted confirmation that the turbo intervals were indeed a little on the light side. I will emphasise however that I am 56 years old and taking medication for hypertension (high blood pressure in old money) so I tend to err on the side of caution even though I basically have no restriction other than my age to training. (confirmed by medics). As for EFR my next door neighbour has used it for the last two years. In the first year to improve his TT, and in the second as winter training for La Marmotte, In both cases it worked. Looks like I need to do Vo2 max test again. Not being precious or anything but _'utter waste'_? I am sure it could have been expressed a bit more subtly than that. I certainly feel like I've had a ride at the end. I had by and large come to the same conclusion as you. Using speed as a proxy for power has obviously sold me a little short. I now realise this but only because I have ridden my last two sessions with a HRM.


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## Winnershsaint (19 Dec 2013)

VamP said:


> The power curve shifts as the trainer warms up too, so just be aware of that. I wouldn't wan to get too reliant on the power curve. Use it as an intensity benchmark by all means, but it's not really suitable for a detailed analysis IMO.


Agreed. See my last post re use of HRM.


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## Dusty Bin (19 Dec 2013)

Winnershsaint said:


> Indeed the HRM has pointed this out. I haven't intended to settle at this, but I wanted confirmation that the turbo intervals were indeed a little on the light side. I will emphasise however that I am 56 years old and taking medication for hypertension (high blood pressure in old money) so I tend to err on the side of caution even though I basically have no restriction other than my age to training. (confirmed by medics). As for EFR my next door neighbour has used it for the last two years. In the first year to improve his TT, and in the second as winter training for La Marmotte, In both cases it worked. Looks like I need to do Vo2 max test again. Not being precious or anything but _'utter waste'_? I am sure it could have been expressed a bit more subtly than that. I certainly feel like I've had a ride at the end. I had by and large come to the same conclusion as you. Using speed as a proxy for power has obviously sold me a little short. I now realise this but only because I have ridden my last two sessions with a HRM.



'utter waste' - I'm inclined to stick by that, tbh, but I certainly don't mean to offend by it. If you are under no medical supervision or restrictions, then your age is not a limiter either. I know riders older than you who are still capable of top 10 finishes in 3/4 circuit races and open CX events (get @VamP to tell you about Dave McMullen). As Robert pointed out earlier, aerobic fitness is best served by 2-3hr steady state road rides, not 15min intervals at the same intensity.


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## VamP (20 Dec 2013)

Dusty is right on this @Winnershsaint 

The beauty of the training zone system is that once set properly, they are appropriate to you specifically. Outside of medical conditions that would prevent you from training, there is no reason to adopt any special precautions due to age. People like Dave McMullen and Mick Ives are a proof that age is no barrier to high level performance.

As a teaser here's a shot of me chasing (in vain) after another golden oldie Steve Davies, the over 50s National Champion.


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## Rob3rt (20 Dec 2013)

If you shaved your legs the mud would wash off easier!


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## VamP (20 Dec 2013)

Never!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> If you shaved your legs the mud would wash off easier!


I'll be using that line some day


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## biggs682 (29 Dec 2013)

have now fitted a cadence equipped computer which shows me running at a cadence of 88 , so i know now i need to improve that as well .

so more sessions planned


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## Dusty Bin (29 Dec 2013)

biggs682 said:


> have now fitted a cadence equipped computer which shows me running at a cadence of 88 , so i know now i need to improve that as well .



Improve it to what? I really don't get this obsession with cadence.


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## biggs682 (29 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Improve it to what? I really don't get this obsession with cadence.



i think a lot comes from the fact that i normally push a big gear along rather than spin legs like crazy , would just rather improve my fitness level so i can keep a higher cadence if only up to 95 for longer


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## Rob3rt (29 Dec 2013)

biggs682 said:


> i think a lot comes from the fact that i normally push a big gear along rather than spin legs like crazy , would just rather improve my fitness level so i can keep a higher cadence if only up to 95 for longer



Hook, line and sinker!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Hook, line and sinker!


Kettles on, would you like a maryland cookie or 4?


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## Blue (30 Dec 2013)

biggs682 said:


> have now fitted a cadence equipped computer which shows me running at a cadence of 88 , so i know now i *need* to improve that as well .
> 
> so more sessions planned


 
You may 'want' to change it, for reasons of your own, but stating that you "need" to change it implies that there is something wrong with your present cadence rate. 88 is neither right nor wrong.


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## Blue (30 Dec 2013)

biggs682 said:


> i think a lot comes from the fact that i normally push a big gear along rather than spin legs like crazy , would just rather improve my fitness level so i can keep a higher cadence if only up to 95 for longer


 I wouldn't limit 'fitness' to being able to spin at a higher rate. Working on different areas of fitness may require use of different gears and different cadences that are session dependent.


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## VamP (4 Jan 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'll be using that line some day





In what context?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Jan 2014)

VamP said:


> In what context?


MTB


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## biggs682 (14 Jan 2014)

starting to see and feel a little improvement since using turbo regular , but an awful long way to go yet


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## Blue (15 Jan 2014)

biggs682 said:


> starting to see and feel a little improvement since using turbo regular , but an awful long way to go yet


 Keep 'er lit.


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## KierenT (18 Jan 2014)

Given the number of pins, plates and rods that hold my legs together, stepping into the pro training game would be pointless for me. That said, time on the trainer has improved my endurance enormously, mostly through intervals. Can now maintain an average HBM of 170 over the course of an hour during a flat ride, and maintain 189 for 4 mins on some of the worst climbs around here. Without vomiting, anyway


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## Blue (18 Jan 2014)

KierenT said:


> Given the number of pins, plates and rods that hold my legs together, stepping into the pro training game would be pointless for me. That said, time on the trainer has improved my endurance enormously, mostly through intervals. Can now maintain an average HBM of 170 over the course of an hour during a flat ride, and maintain 189 for 4 mins on some of the worst climbs around here. Without vomiting, anyway


 If that keeps you happy and motivated it's the way to go.


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## Combi (23 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> Improve it to what? I really don't get this obsession with cadence.



I recall reading somewhere (book? magazine? bathroom stall?) that training at high cadence is supposed to smooth your normal cadence and help you deliver more power all the way around. No idea if it's helped me at all, but I do both kinds of exercise at least for the variety.


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## Dusty Bin (23 Jan 2014)

Combi said:


> I recall reading somewhere (book? magazine? bathroom stall?) that training at high cadence is supposed to smooth your normal cadence and help you deliver more power all the way around. No idea if it's helped me at all, but I do both kinds of exercise at least for the variety.



ah well, if you read it on the bog, then it must be true....


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## Brad123 (29 Jan 2014)

I'm getting on the well with the turbo. Tried to do a 2 hours on it over the weekend at work as I had the time. But after 1 hour 40 minute I got off got very board. 
Something else is when doing intervals I thought I would try watch some stuff off YouTube. That did not work for me as when the legs start so go I start to zone out can watch any thing but the clock and must keep going. 
Music helps as long as it has the same tempo as my cadence and can zone in on the beat and try put out the pain.
How do all of use out their deal with I must not stop when all you want to do is stop.


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## Dusty Bin (29 Jan 2014)

Brad123 said:


> How do all of use out their deal with I must not stop when all you want to do is stop.



Discipline...


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## Blue (6 Feb 2014)

If my head/legs are screaming at me to stop during intervals I remind myself that dealing with such issues is why I'm doing the intervals in the first place and carry on while digging deep and screaming back louder than the voice of the quitter in my head.


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## biggs682 (23 Dec 2014)

well the turbo got its first dusting and spin up last night , not used it since earlier in the year as the weather has been good enough to ride , but the wind yesterday curtailed my riding miles .

all i can say is that its still as boring as ever


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## arch684 (23 Dec 2014)

Anyone seen the Swift turbo trainer game.can't do link's but google it and have a look


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## madpensioner (24 Dec 2014)

biggs682 said:


> well the turbo got its first dusting and spin up last night , not used it since earlier in the year as the weather has been good enough to ride , but the wind yesterday curtailed my riding miles .
> 
> all i can say is that its still as boring as ever


I have had a turbo trainer for 5 yrs - during winter i do three 1hr sessions per week - to get rid of the bordam - i put the head phones on linked to a cd player and play my favorite music - most cds last about an hr - you would be amazed how fast the time passes


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## screenman (24 Dec 2014)

If you tell yourself before you get on it that it will be boring, then most likely will be.

Have a plan stick to the plan and know why you have a plan. Limit your time on it to 40 minutes, breaking it into 10 minute sections in your head and the boring bit soon goes.

If you can find a Peter Reads turbo training book then there are some good tips in there.


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## Rob3rt (24 Dec 2014)

I ride the turbo, steady state for up to 4 hours at a time for a total of 12-14 hours a week, generally with up to 3, 3 hour sessions and 2 shorter, 2 hour sessions. It isn't any more boring than the road if you treat it for what it is and come at it with a purpose.


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## screenman (24 Dec 2014)

I feel as I said earlier, many people talk themselves into feeling bored.


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## Sunny Portrush (24 Dec 2014)

I have just bought a turbo but mainly so I can keep my legs ticking over when I can`t get out. I`m not really gonna use it for hight training purposes and to be honest, I don`t understand half this thread. I go like the clappers for a minute, recover for four before going like the clappers for another minute. I do this for 45mins and have no idea if it`s doing me any good but it sure makes me sweat lol


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## JtB (27 Dec 2014)

screenman said:


> I feel as I said earlier, many people talk themselves into feeling bored.


I agree. I've done 30 minutes 4 days on the trot this week and no signs of boredom in sight. I just put my motivational music ( http://tunein.com/radio/Cumbias-Inmortales-Mix-s221717/ ) on full blast and pedal in time to the rhythm.

PS. It's not a scientific approach, but it's fun and it's also limited my Christmas weight gain to 1Kg (so far).


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## wam68 (27 Dec 2014)

Can't do turbo training. Brain starts to melt after 10 minutes so I'm pacing the house at the minute till weather gives me a break to get out. Might go to the gym though


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## birdy247 (28 Dec 2014)

A turbo trainer is an excellent tool to really improve your cycling. This is down to a variety of reasons, one of which is the "clinical" and "unpolluted" training environment you can create... No traffic lights, roundabout, cars etc.. to break your rhythm. You can also keep very close tabs on power/effort output and train in a very controlled power range for any given period of time.

As with any training, it comes down to "what are you trying to improve". The training on a turbo for a 10 mile TT would be different to that if you are focusing on road races for example (although both would share similar workouts).

If you let me know what you would like to improve upon, I would be more than happy to suggest a few workouts. Its amazing how some structure on the turbo will make time fly! Learn to love thy turbo, and you WILL get faster.


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## screenman (28 Dec 2014)

wam68 said:


> Can't do turbo training. Brain starts to melt after 10 minutes so I'm pacing the house at the minute till weather gives me a break to get out. Might go to the gym though



If you are bored around the house why not get bored but with added benefits.


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## wam68 (28 Dec 2014)

Yeh, I can see your point but spin classes in gym much better. Some great views to take your mind of the monotony


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## Cuchilo (30 Dec 2014)

Just got my first turbo and have been looking at the sufferfest site . Any tips for the best dl to buy ? Or any free ones would be welcome


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> Just got my first turbo and have been looking at the sufferfest site . Any tips for the best dl to buy ? Or any free ones would be welcome



Why not have a look at GCN on you tube, we were talking about them on here yesterday.


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

wam68 said:


> Yeh, I can see your point but spin classes in gym much better. Some great views to take your mind of the monotony



12 miles each way to the nearest gym, I can finish a session in the traveling time alone.

Get your point about the scenery though.


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## AlanW (30 Dec 2014)

Me and a mate used to do a aerobics class and stay at the back, not coz we were crap (although we were) but the views were simply stunning  It was okay till we were sort of rumbled and we were asked if we would like to go nearer the front or in other words right at the front! Oddly enough it didn't have the same appeal after that for some reason?


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## Cuchilo (30 Dec 2014)

screenman said:


> Why not have a look at GCN on you tube, we were talking about them on here yesterday.


Couldn't see any on there although you tube itself did have a few .


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## Fubar (30 Dec 2014)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I have just bought a turbo but mainly so I can keep my legs ticking over when I can`t get out. I`m not really gonna use it for hight training purposes and to be honest, I don`t understand half this thread. I go like the clappers for a minute, recover for four before going like the clappers for another minute. I do this for 45mins and have no idea if it`s doing me any good but it sure makes me sweat lol



Better than doing nothing! Though if you have a Heart Rate Monitor why don't you try reversing it - 4 minute intervals with 1 minute break, start with 3 x 4min intervals and add an interval each session, up to maximum 1 hour. Get your heart rate up near your threashold (but not over - so if 160bpm is your threashold get to 155bpm and hold it there) for the 4 minutes then pedal easy for 1 minute.


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## screenman (30 Dec 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> Couldn't see any on there although you tube itself did have a few .



There looks like a lot from here.

Go to YouTube type in gcn turbo training.


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## JtB (30 Dec 2014)

I just downloaded this video from Youtube, connected my laptop to my Sonos speakers, turned the volume right up and had a very enjoyable (and tiring) 45 minute workout


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## Cuchilo (30 Dec 2014)

JtB said:


> I just downloaded this video from Youtube, connected my laptop to my Sonos speakers, turned the volume right up and had a very enjoyable (and tiring) 45 minute workout



I saw that one earlier and the rear lights got on my tits  Plus the music !


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## JtB (30 Dec 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> I saw that one earlier and the rear lights got on my tits  Plus the music !


Did you find any others more to your liking? I would be interested in downloading a few more and building up a collection.


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## Cuchilo (30 Dec 2014)

JtB said:


> Did you find any others more to your liking? I would be interested in downloading a few more and building up a collection.


The GCN site did have a few and surfing you tube turned up a few more but I ended up going out and riding . I only bought the turbo for the new TT bike and that's not turning up until Monday . I don't really want to put my good bike on it to be honest .


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## Sunny Portrush (1 Jan 2015)

Fubar said:


> Better than doing nothing! Though if you have a Heart Rate Monitor why don't you try reversing it - 4 minute intervals with 1 minute break, start with 3 x 4min intervals and add an interval each session, up to maximum 1 hour. Get your heart rate up near your threashold (but not over - so if 160bpm is your threashold get to 155bpm and hold it there) for the 4 minutes then pedal easy for 1 minute.




I don`t have a heart rate monitor but over the hols found an app that uses my camera on the phone - I was of course thought it was a bit dubious but it was actually relatively close when I just counted my pulse over a minute. Not as accurate as a HRM but at least it gives me some kind of idea!.

By the way, how do you know what your treashold is without keeling over - fwiw, my resting heart rate is normally around 45/50bpm


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## Fubar (1 Jan 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I don`t have a heart rate monitor but over the hols found an app that uses my camera on the phone - I was of course thought it was a bit dubious but it was actually relatively close when I just counted my pulse over a minute. Not as accurate as a HRM but at least it gives me some kind of idea!.
> 
> By the way, how do you know what your treashold is without keeling over - fwiw, my resting heart rate is normally around 45/50bpm



I'm sure there are various ways of measuring it but if you do a warm up then pedal as fast as you can on the turbo (and can measure your heart rate) it's the point at which you cant maintain the speed you are doing and feel like you are struggling - generally once I get above 170bpm I really struggle. STOP as soon as you think you are there, it doesn't take long. I think you can also do a "ramp test" and I'm sure there will be other suggestions but your threshold is basically the point that you could keep pedalling at your fastest speed without it dropping off.


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## Cuchilo (8 Jan 2015)

Just done one of the GCN you tube training vids on the turbo . That was pretty mental !


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## biggs682 (27 Mar 2015)

Quick update turbo got little use from myself over the winter period due to being able to get on the bike as and when required to keep a level of fitness 

But it the other half has started using it in the last couple of weeks to try and improve her leg strength which is very poor for various medical reasons and in 3 weeks she has managed to go from doing 4 minutes to 8 minutes this week , which is a good increase her target is to beable to sit on the back of our tandem and to do a short ride , so fingers crossed


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## JtB (28 Mar 2015)

Since Christmas, I have worked out (to the 45 minute CTXC video) on my Turbo Trainer an average of 4 times a week. The weather and the state of the roads round here have not enticed me back onto the roads yet, but that's all about to change because when the clocks go forward I shall be packing away my Turbo Trainer until next winter.


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## SimonH (29 Mar 2015)

Ive used Turbo Trainers and find them boring ,so ive just bought a heavy duty ,decent quality spinning bike off ebay ( xgym), it feels like a real bike and you can give it rockall ,have a good workout with out wearing out your bike and sweating all over it,i paid £200 ,you need to pay for a heavy flywheel for a real cycle feel,mines a bodybike.


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## Rob3rt (30 Mar 2015)

How on earth is a spinning bike going to be any less boring than riding a turbo trainer?


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