# Solar panels….?



## Hicky (7 Mar 2022)

Solar panels for the home are they worth it, what special requirements(beyond sun) are needed?
Is there a green scheme atm for them?


----------



## jowwy (7 Mar 2022)

Hicky said:


> Solar panels for the home are they worth it, what special requirements(beyond sun) are needed?
> Is there a green scheme atm for them?


Solar panel controller, fuses, switches, inverter to change dc to ac…….lots more


----------



## fossyant (7 Mar 2022)

A bloody good place to fit them too - wouldn't be great on our house, would need to go on garage roof, then we've neighbour's trees in the way most of the year.


----------



## Hicky (7 Mar 2022)

I’ve got a south facing flat roof roughly 5x4m loft conversion so I’m not worried about the loading. Jowwy I wasn’t going to do it myself.


----------



## DCLane (7 Mar 2022)

It's something I considered a few years ago but didn't get it installed for financial reasons as well as planning to move at the time, and we may be soon so again wouldn't do it.

We've a SSW-facing 10x7m roof which would take the panels nicely.


----------



## MontyVeda (7 Mar 2022)

with the price of electricity going through the roof, they may be a wise investment.


----------



## jowwy (7 Mar 2022)

Hicky said:


> I’ve got a south facing flat roof roughly 5x4m loft conversion so I’m not worried about the loading. Jowwy I wasn’t going to do it myself.


Sorry i just listed some of the things you would need……..


----------



## Hicky (7 Mar 2022)

jowwy said:


> Sorry i just listed some of the things you would need……..


I assumed the panels would come as a package and installed, hence floating the question to see if anyone had experience.
DCLane, we don’t plan to move….or I don’t unless it’s in a wooden box 🙂


----------



## jowwy (7 Mar 2022)

Hicky said:


> I assumed the panels would come as a package and installed, hence floating the question to see if anyone had experience.
> DCLane, we don’t plan to move….or I don’t unless it’s in a wooden box 🙂


I am looking into it…..for later in the year. But im also doing a small diy set-up for my garden and shed needs


----------



## Gillstay (7 Mar 2022)

We put solar hot water on the last house and we got a bit of grant money and even without that it was great. Constant hot water.
This house has electric panels that we have linked to a immersion heater in the hot water tank to get some of the same effect as well as exporting it. 
Two things that get overlooked with both systems is the fact that for a lot of the year your boiler does not fire up as your getting your hot water from elsewhere, so your boiler lasts a lot longer. This is quite a saving. With solar hot water in summer you can have too much so I put ours on a frame on a flat roof and when we went away I chucked a simple cover over it. A visit to C.A.T. in Wales convinced us to do it. We tailer made out our energy usage to fit how we lived, rather than just replacing what had gone before for someone else.


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Mar 2022)

I have been modelling my circumstances using the app from Loop Energy connected to my smart meter. For me breakeven would be about 15 years with or without a battery wall so I have decided to hold off for a few years to see if that changes. The obvious issue with future pricing over the next 5 to 10 years has made me rethink but solar equipment prices are also expected to surge very soon.


----------



## annedonnelly (8 Mar 2022)

I don't know why more people don't have solar hot water. As @Gillstay says, it's brilliant. In a decent summer I can go most of the summer months without the water needing to be heated by the heat pump. You do need to be sensible about hot water use. It's makes much more sense to have a bath in the evening rather than at 7am when the sun hasn't hit the panel.

I've had solar PV for years and the installer estimated that I'd get about £500 per year from the feed in tarrif. I've never had less than £500. Obviously that depends on the deal that was available at the time and I don't know what the situation is now. 

If anyone in this part of the world is interested I am happy to recommend my installer.


----------



## Gillstay (8 Mar 2022)

My chum in Kent covered his bungalow with electric panels years ago and expected it to pay off in ten years. Then there was a price rise and it paid off in seven. He now reckons its been his best investment of the last 15 years.


----------



## mistyoptic (9 Mar 2022)

We got in early on when the feed in tariff was very generous. Now, ten years on, I reckon we’ve had our investment back plus about £5k. Nowadays you would only get about 5p per unit export tariff.

Today it‘s cloudy and we’re not exporting much but we’re not importing either so that’s a win.

Some areas have a green scheme. In Nottingham the PILs are about to have solar PV fitted subsidised by the council. May be similar scheme elsewhere.

edit. 4Kw system, 33000 units generated to date


----------



## Alex321 (9 Mar 2022)

We had solar panels fitted a few weeks ago, as many as would fit on our roof & garage together (giving a nominal 10.1kWh system), and a 16kWh battery.

Since 10th February, we have already generated 442kWh - at the rates from 1st April, that would be £125 worth in less than a month, during the winter.

The total system cost us around £20,000 fully installed so that is a payback time of around 160 months, but we will obviously be generating quite a bit more during the summer, so 10 years seems a reasonable estimate - provided electricity prices don't rise much more.

The battery hasn't actually been installed yet - stock is arriving on 15th April, but when it is, we will be switching to the Octopus Agile tariff for both import and export, and I suspect the payback time will then be better, as we will be getting a good rate for what we export, not just saving on what we use.


----------



## Alex321 (9 Mar 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> We got in early on when the feed in tariff was very generous. Now, ten years on, I reckon we’ve had our investment back plus about £5k. Nowadays you would only get about 5p per unit export tariff.


Export rates vary according to supplier. While most are only around 5p per kWh (or less - British Gas are only 3.5p/kWh), some are more, and the Octopus Agile tariff can even pay more than the Agile import tariff charges (which is capped at 35p/kWh and has been that almost constantly for the last couple of months).

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-southern-england/


----------



## MrGrumpy (23 Mar 2022)

Think with todays announcement I may have to give serious consideration into panels now. Need to do something to reduce energy costs . Where do folk go ? Think Sco Gov have links. Not sure if grants available as well but 0% vat is a start


----------



## bikingdad90 (23 Mar 2022)

@MrGrumpy, wait until the bit about the removal of red tape is detailed, it may mean that the 60% rule no longer applies and you could say refurb your roof, add better insulation and fit pvc soffits etc and it would all be 0% and not split at 5%/20% or charged at 20% if materials are over 60% of cost.


----------



## Milkfloat (23 Mar 2022)

5% less VAT still does not it viable for my circumstances. I will jump when the payback period is around 10 years.


----------



## Fab Foodie (23 Mar 2022)

Following with interest as our new-build house we move into in July comes with Solar as std. No idea on power rating tho'
Why there is not a law for all new houses to have solar, I simply can't fathom...


----------



## irw (23 Mar 2022)

Fab Foodie said:


> Following with interest as our new-build house we move into in July comes with Solar as std. No idea on power rating tho'
> Why there is not a law for all new houses to have solar, I simply can't fathom...


Wouldn’t everyone’s roof need to slope the same way?! This is the most annoying thing about our house- we’ve got slopes that face every way except South!


----------



## Alex321 (23 Mar 2022)

irw said:


> Wouldn’t everyone’s roof need to slope the same way?! This is the most annoying thing about our house- we’ve got slopes that face every way except South!


Most houses will have at least one roof elevation facing in an acceptable direction, even if not an ideal one.

We're lucky, our rear roof is close to ideal.


----------



## Alex321 (23 Mar 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> 5% less VAT still does not it viable for my circumstances. I will jump when the payback period is around 10 years.


Currently looking at something around 12-15 years for us, but if prices rise any more, that will reduce.


----------



## Fab Foodie (23 Mar 2022)

irw said:


> Wouldn’t everyone’s roof need to slope the same way?! This is the most annoying thing about our house- we’ve got slopes that face every way except South!


Am certain it could be factored-in at the design stage!


----------



## All uphill (23 Mar 2022)

irw said:


> Wouldn’t everyone’s roof need to slope the same way?! This is the most annoying thing about our house- we’ve got slopes that face every way except South!


Our neighbours have PV panels on both the East and West sides of his roof and say that it works well - misses the absolute peak but generates energy for 12 hours a day much of the year.


----------



## MrGrumpy (23 Mar 2022)

My current house is ideal , south facing and south west facing roof aspects . Should be able to get a fairly large array on there. May get someone in to give me an idea on costs/payback . Currently energy pricing is going to be huge for me . It’s nearly going to double compared to my mortgage !


----------



## geocycle (23 Mar 2022)

It depends. We had eon give an estimate for 18 panels on our optimal sw facing roof. As we don’t use much electric ourselves it would have been over 20 years to recoup the cost. Of course higher prices and the prospect of an electric vehicle will shift the balance a bit. The feed in tariff quoted was 5p while the charge was 16.5p per kw. I was told that battery storage helps spread the load and we costed one in. However, without additional circuitry they wouldn’t help in a power cut. The other local issue is our exposure to strong westerlies which I could imagine causing damage or playing tunes on the panels. Overall, I was not convinced despite wanting to make it work.


----------



## slowmotion (23 Mar 2022)

Ten years ago or so, it was a good way of harvesting generous Government subsidies but a not so good way of generating electricity. It's the same situation today.......but the subsidies are crap.


----------



## Gillstay (25 Mar 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Ten years ago or so, it was a good way of harvesting generous Government subsidies but a not so good way of generating electricity. It's the same situation today.......but the subsidies are crap.


I have just taken off a solar i Boost which took power off our panels and gave us free hot water. The kit cost £300 and the saving in the first year was £150. So its generating just fine. Also it saves the boiler as it doesn't need to kick in all summer. Putin can stick his oil.


----------



## Daninplymouth (26 Mar 2022)

irw said:


> Wouldn’t everyone’s roof need to slope the same way?! This is the most annoying thing about our house- we’ve got slopes that face every way except South!


Panel efficiency has increased a lot over the years so you no longer have to be direct to the sun. Think it may even be better not being on a south facing as you can generate power over a longer part of the day although not as much at peak


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jul 2022)

Costco doing 16 panels plus 5kw storage for £12k installed ? I may get a quote from a couple of installers to see what they would charge. Savings in first year alone according to rough calculations on website is between £760 and £1500 .


----------



## NorthernDave (17 Jul 2022)

My electricity provider offers packages from c.£6k. A system with battery storage so you can use your "free" electric at night adds about another £2k. However even with the feed in tariff their proposition will take 12-15 years to pay for itself with average use including selling the excess generated back to the grid.

That said, with prices as they are, I'm thinking about it


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jul 2022)

Likewise, however I’m going to have to find out what the large users of power are and see what I can do as currently with nobody at home we are away on holiday I appear to be using approx 7kWh a day


----------



## Alex321 (17 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Costco doing 16 panels plus 5kw storage for £12k installed ? I may get a quote from a couple of installers to see what they would charge. Savings in first year alone according to rough calculations on website is between £760 and £1500 .



Our came to a total of 20K installed, but that is for a much bigger system - 10.4Kw, with 16Kwh battery.


----------



## jowwy (17 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Likewise, however I’m going to have to find out what the large users of power are and see what I can do as currently with nobody at home we are away on holiday I appear to be using approx 7kWh a day



I only 6kwh a day and i wfh……lol


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our came to a total of 20K installed, but that is for a much bigger system - 10.4Kw, with 16Kwh battery.



Think I’ll contact some installers and get some pricing . See how many panels I can get .


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> I only 6kwh a day and i wfh……lol



Yes hence my other post on energy price and usage. I’ll need to suss out what’s using the most . We do live in a large 5 bed , with 4 adults and a child. 
Clearly though something is costing me when we are not there .


----------



## jowwy (17 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yes hence my other post on energy price and usage. I’ll need to suss out what’s using the most . We do live in a large 5 bed , with 4 adults and a child.
> Clearly though something is costing me when we are not there .



How many fridges/freezers you got plugged in and what about thinsg on standby…..7kwh is a lot when your not there

hottub???


----------



## ClichéGuevara (17 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> I only 6kwh a day and i wfh……lol



Mine's even lower than that, but I manage to save a few bob by plugging in to nextdoor's garden sockets when they go away.


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our came to a total of 20K installed, but that is for a much bigger system - 10.4Kw, with 16Kwh





jowwy said:


> How many fridges/freezers you got plugged in and what about thinsg on standby…..7kwh is a lot when your not there
> 
> hottub???



Hot tubs away not been plugged in this year . Two fridges and two freezers. Going to look at those as one of each are very old . Unfortunately need them all. So might need to buy efficient ones.


----------



## jowwy (17 Jul 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Mine's even lower than that, but I manage to save a few bob by plugging in to nextdoor's garden sockets when they go away.



Tbh i cook mostly outside on a gas grill and pizza oven and my home office runs on a solar generator and 125watt panel……so i do save on electric that way. Even when i garden i use a manual rotary mower and strimmer uses batteries which i again charge off the other solar panel.

i mean even today ive been sat outside with the mrs, watching the tv using solar power….so no tv or sky etc etc running in the house off the grid.


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

ive just checked my usage now as im back in the home office today after being on leave........ive used 94 units of electric over the past 17 days at an average of 5.5kwh per day.

so i would say at @MrGrumpy you need to take a look at your appliances and try and find out how much they are using and whats on standby when your not around.


----------



## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2022)

Standby stuff I’ll see what I can identify. However being a busy household normally , washing machines run at least once a day. I’m guessing appliances such as fridges and freezers draw a lot in comparison. Especially if old. 
I’ll order that energy monitor though for when I get back from my holidays and start Checking . Never paid much attention till now !! Cash does focus the mind lol .


----------



## Mo1959 (18 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> washing machines run at least once a day.



Maybe this runs away with a fair bit? Anything with a heating element usually does.


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

its the 7kwh your using when not there that would focus my mind......our neighbours came back from a weeks hols last week and took a reading before and after returning, they average 5.5kwh a day, but they got the hot tub running all the time, even when not there, to keep it upto temperature


----------



## geocycle (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> its the 7kwh your using when not there that would focus my mind......


I agree, my son had a similar issue. He did a creep and load test, ie turned everything off and went away for a few days, came back to find meter had increased. Suppliers have instructed an electrician who will piggyback another meter to check things out.


----------



## Tom... (18 Jul 2022)

We use less than 4kwh a day, and the washing machine is on every day.


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

im currently using 9p per hour according to my smart meter and according to the meter, including the days standard charge, ive used £1.47 in leccy

if i keep on with the 9p an hour then thats around 2.50 for the day.........but i got an air cooler running downstairs for the mrs and the dog


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> We use less than 4kwh a day, and the washing machine is on every day.



how much solar is used to keep it that low......


----------



## Tom... (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> how much solar is used to keep it that low......



None


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> None



no fridge or freezer running?? what about TVs etc etc......


----------



## Tom... (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> no fridge or freezer running?? what about TVs etc etc......



Yes we have them, but they run off the mains, we have no solar power.


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> Yes we have them, but they run off the mains, we have no solar power.



4kwh is soooo low...i thought i was good, but thats really low


----------



## Tom... (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> 4kwh is soooo low...i thought i was good, but thats really low



104kwh in May and 118kwh in June


----------



## jowwy (18 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> 104kwh in May and 118kwh in June



thats good going fiar play.....single by any chance???


----------



## Tom... (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> thats good going fiar play.....single by any chance???



Family household, hence the washing machine on every day  (no tumble drying though)


----------



## Milkfloat (18 Jul 2022)

I average about 9 kWh per day for electricity. That is for 2 adults and 2 kids in a 4 bed house, working from home.


----------



## Alex321 (18 Jul 2022)

We used about 3000Kwh in the last full year, which averages out at about 8.22Kwh per day - obviously that will be more in the winter, less at this time of year. That is with just 2 adults, in a large 4 bedroom house, me WFH most of the time, my wife retired.


----------



## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2022)

Think there is room for improvement on mine . Lighting is all LED so low power when in use.


----------



## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> We used about 3000Kwh in the last full year, which averages out at about 8.22Kwh per day - obviously that will be more in the winter, less at this time of year. That is with just 2 adults, in a large 4 bedroom house, me WFH most of the time, my wife retired.



Quite clearly I’m blasting you all out the park with mine lol .


----------



## Ming the Merciless (18 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> im currently using 9p per hour according to my smart meter and according to the meter, including the days standard charge, ive used £1.47 in leccy
> 
> if i keep on with the 9p an hour then thats around 2.50 for the day.........but i got an air cooler running downstairs for the mrs and the dog



Just looked at mine and it averaged £1.63 a day for electric for last full month. Looks like this month will come out less at current run rate.


----------



## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2022)

geocycle said:


> I agree, my son had a similar issue. He did a creep and load test, ie turned everything off and went away for a few days, came back to find meter had increased. Suppliers have instructed an electrician who will piggyback another meter to check things out.



Interesting


----------



## Gillstay (18 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Likewise, however I’m going to have to find out what the large users of power are and see what I can do as currently with nobody at home we are away on holiday I appear to be using approx 7kWh a day



Clean the back of your fridge and freezer.


----------



## MrGrumpy (18 Jul 2022)

Gillstay said:


> Clean the back of your fridge and freezer.



Yer assuming the coils are visible  .


----------



## Alex321 (19 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Yer assuming the coils are visible  .



They will be after you've cleaned them


----------



## Tom B (19 Jul 2022)

Just to put the 7kwh in perspective 

2 kids 2 adults ... 6.2Kwh per day average. 

While away "the house" running the fridge freezer, smoke alarms, router, network switch, sky box, and a few lights in timers is using 2.1kwh rising to 2.2KWh when the temp rose.

Electric oven and grill. Gas kettle.


Edit. Just checked back to when we was away in Feb and the house actually used 3.1Kwh. I can't think what we left on differently. But I'm going to find out.


----------



## Alex321 (19 Jul 2022)

Tom B said:


> Just to put the 7kwh in perspective
> 
> 2 kids 2 adults ... 6.2Kwh per day average.
> 
> ...



Possibly the pump for the central heating (assuming the heating is gas powered)? Most systems have a "frost protect" setting that means even when you have set the heating and hot water to OFF, it will come on for short periods if the temperature falls low enough for there to be a risk of frozen pipes, and will circulate the hot water.


----------



## neil_merseyside (19 Jul 2022)

A few questions if anyone knows.

Can solar panels be mounted solely from outside? 
We have a loft conversion so roof is purlin and rafters, and so loft is plasterboarded to within about a metre of outside walls - so some room for cabling in remaining eave space, but actually lots of space in a loft cupboard for equipmen (if that goes near panels and not the meter?).

How good do house electrics need to be?
We have rather eclectic electrics, it is all pvc but 80% old colours (no lighting earths etc) has a 16th edition board I think (plastic case split load RCD) and all fed by an ancient whole house 100ma RCD (be called an ELCB back in the day?) oh and a mini slave board that was once the E7 circuit I think.

I could invest a future pension lump sum into panels, but not enough to rewire and decorate as well....


----------



## Alex321 (19 Jul 2022)

neil_merseyside said:


> A few questions if anyone knows.
> 
> Can solar panels be mounted solely from outside?



The panels and equipment (Inverter etc.) certainly can. Ours were.

They did run one cable through the loft and out through the gable end.


neil_merseyside said:


> We have a loft conversion so roof is purlin and rafters, and so loft is plasterboarded to within about a metre of outside walls - so some room for cabling in remaining eave space, but actually lots of space in a loft cupboard for equipmen (if that goes near panels and not the meter?).


Ours is connected to the mains at the meter, no wiring inside the house at all. Apart from the one cable mentioned above - and I~ think they only did that so that it would be neater.




neil_merseyside said:


> How good do house electrics need to be?
> We have rather eclectic electrics, it is all pvc but 80% old colours (no lighting earths etc) has a 16th edition board I think (plastic case split load RCD) and all fed by an ancient whole house 100ma RCD (be called an ELCB back in the day?) oh and a mini slave board that was once the E7 circuit I think.


AIUI, if you can take power from the grid, you will be able to use solar. By the time it meets your house system, it is the same 230V AC as you get from the grid.



neil_merseyside said:


> I could invest a future pension lump sum into panels, but not enough to rewire and decorate as well....



Shouldn't be necessary.


----------



## MrGrumpy (19 Jul 2022)

Tom B said:


> Just to put the 7kwh in perspective
> 
> 2 kids 2 adults ... 6.2Kwh per day average.
> 
> ...



Plan on some investigative work , as it seems very high for not being at home ? ! Hope it’s not a dodgy smart meter !!


----------



## Gillstay (19 Jul 2022)

neil_merseyside said:


> A few questions if anyone knows.
> 
> Can solar panels be mounted solely from outside?
> We have a loft conversion so roof is purlin and rafters, and so loft is plasterboarded to within about a metre of outside walls - so some room for cabling in remaining eave space, but actually lots of space in a loft cupboard for equipmen (if that goes near panels and not the meter?).
> ...



or if that panels dont suit you you could save energy with solar hot water, or / and a Mixery hot water tank. Thenit may suit your budget better.


----------



## Tom B (19 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Possibly the pump for the central heating (assuming the heating is gas powered)? Most systems have a "frost protect" setting that means even when you have set the heating and hot water to OFF, it will come on for short periods if the temperature falls low enough for there to be a risk of frozen pipes, and will circulate the hot water.



Zero gas use and I don't think the house got that cold.



MrGrumpy said:


> Plan on some investigative work , as it seems very high for not being at home ? ! Hope it’s not a dodgy smart meter !!



The encyclopedic memory of the missus informed me I that I left 80w (4x18w) of bike shed lights on while we was away. That and extra burn times of outside lights and and a not as strict switch off regime prior to leaving would cover it. I think.


----------



## kipster (19 Jul 2022)

I've recently had solar installed (7kw) and batteries (10kw), also installed a solar immersion heater.

We are quite heavy on electric usage, 4 adults (Inc one student) and getting a self consumption figure of 16kwh-18kwh a day. I think that includes the charging of the batteries and the hot water from solar.

When I measured usage before solar we were about 12-15kwh a day, but heating the water from gas.


I've got something importing 0.2kwh from the grid at 4:30am each day, but other than that we are running the whole house off of solar/batteries and exporting anything from 18kwh-30kwh a day to the grid. 

I'm waiting on all the certs and will then sign up for a SEG tariff and get a little bit of money for the export.


----------



## MrGrumpy (19 Jul 2022)

Your usage is mirroring mine . Interesting what the difference solar is making. Of course being in the central belt of Scotty land . Day light is an issue during those wintry months . However our roof aspect is perfect I’d say .


----------



## jowwy (20 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> The panels and equipment (Inverter etc.) certainly can. Ours were.
> 
> They did run one cable through the loft and out through the gable end.
> 
> ...



lots more people started to fit batteries and inverters to bypass through the grid in case of power cuts, so they can keep using the solar or battery back up.....


----------



## Chislenko (20 Jul 2022)

So a few questions for someone who has no clue.

Our roof, although looking good, is as old as the house, (1970's).

Do the installers inspect your roof and state if it is sound enough to take the panels or are they purely about selling their own product? Obviously you wouldn't want to have the panels fitted then a couple of years down the road find they all have to come off to re tile the roof.

I presume they drill into the tiles to secure to the roof, how do they guard against water ingress (heavy rainfall) and do they require access to your loft space to secure from the inside?

What is this battery people are talking about, where does it go and what does it do?

How does the self generated power filter into the house, for instance if I turned on the kettle which power source does it use or does it not work like that. 

Apologies if daft questions but I really am oblivious to all this.


----------



## kipster (20 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> So a few questions for someone who has no clue.
> 
> Our roof, although looking good, is as old as the house, (1970's).
> 
> ...



I've only had mine a little while so still learning but the panels are secured on to rails which are attached to brackets. The brackets slide under the tiles and are secured to the rafters. They don't drill through the tiles.

Access to loft was only to run the wiring but this could run outside of the house if you wanted.

The installers surveyed my roof (but not the condition only to see how to install).

The panels connect to an inverter which connects back to the consumer unit. This supplies the electricity into the house. When not enough solar is being produced for the load required it imports from the grid.

My batteries provide additional energy storage, they charge from the panels through the inverter (a hybrid) and when the load required is more than the solar is producing it takes electricity from the batteries. Only when the batteries are depleted will it import from the grid.

Once the batteries are fully charged, excess solar goes to my immersion to heat the hot water. Once that is up to temperature then it exports excess electricity to the grid. You get paid for this once you've got all your docs and have set up an SEG tariff with a supplier.


----------



## Chislenko (20 Jul 2022)

kipster said:


> I've only had mine a little while so still learning but the panels are secured on to rails which are attached to brackets. The brackets slide under the tiles and are secured to the rafters. They don't drill through the tiles.
> 
> Access to loft was only to run the wiring but this could run outside of the house if you wanted.
> 
> ...



Thank you kipster.

How big are these batteries and where do they locate in the house?


----------



## kipster (20 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Thank you kipster.
> 
> How big are these batteries and where do they locate in the house?



I have three (3.3kw each), they are inside the house in a box room but some put them in the loft. The three of them together are about 45cmx45cmx45cm so not very big 

This is a photo of the inverter and batteries


----------



## cougie uk (20 Jul 2022)

This might be worth a watch. 


View: https://youtu.be/4BUUQLsFSmY


Best way to get your money back quickly is to use the electricity you generate. 

www.first4solar.co.uk is the company he talks about in the video. 

This is a calculator that might help you too. 

https://www.pvfitcalculator.energysavingtrust.org.uk/


----------



## Gillstay (20 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> This might be worth a watch.
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/4BUUQLsFSmY
> ...




I did not buy my various solar installations for the money, but it has worked out anyhow and a lot of the videos and fact sheets out there are poor. They don't include if the price of energy goes up, the money you save on not wearing out your boiler as it only works for 6/7 months of the year and the good your doing. I also see it as a advantage when you come to sell.


----------



## Alex321 (20 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Thank you kipster.
> 
> How big are these batteries and where do they locate in the house?



The size varies depending on the make and the capacity, but they can be fairy large.

They will normally be located close to the inverter, and that is not necessarily inside the house at all.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (20 Jul 2022)

Just had 10 panels installed

So far it looks like running the dishwasher and washing machine pretty much just use the solar energy generated
and the background usage during the day is totally from the panels

But if I switch the kettle on - or something equally powerful - then it mostly comes from teh grid

However, the batteries have not arrived yet, so that should change things


----------



## MrGrumpy (21 Jul 2022)

I used the calculator further up and estimates it would cost me money to fit solar ? Think I need to speak to my neighbours as they have solar . See what they think , on savings .


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (21 Jul 2022)

After less than 2 week - and all very sunny - it does look like it will be worth it for us

but there is also the environmental aspect of things - we are making green electric and every bit reduces the need to fossil fuels by a bit

I cannot understand why there isn't more of a move for the government to help people install them


----------



## irw (21 Jul 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> After less than 2 week - and all very sunny - it does look like it will be worth it for us
> 
> but there is also the environmental aspect of things - we are making green electric and every bit reduces the need to fossil fuels by a bit
> 
> I cannot understand why there isn't more of a move for the government to help people install them



I'm currently looking into getting solar power and battery storage now I've got a hybrid car...what company did you use, and would you recommend them?


----------



## Chislenko (21 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> The size varies depending on the make and the capacity, but they can be fairy large.
> 
> They will normally be located close to the inverter, and that is not necessarily inside the house at all.



That's encouraging that the inverter and batteries don't need to be in the house as a bit stuck for space. We have a nice area behind the kitchen where I could build a storage box for the inverter / battery, however it is a long way from the fuse box / meter so would require quite a lot of cabling around the outside of the house.

NB. Obviously Google was watching me yesterday reading this thread as I got a pop up as from EON advertising solar!! It suggested the batteries are circa £3000 each, is that a normal price for them?


----------



## kipster (21 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> That's encouraging that the inverter and batteries don't need to be in the house as a bit stuck for space. We have a nice area behind the kitchen where I could build a storage box for the inverter / battery, however it is a long way from the fuse box / meter so would require quite a lot of cabling around the outside of the house.
> 
> NB. Obviously Google was watching me yesterday reading this thread as I got a pop up as from EON advertising solar!! It suggested the batteries are circa £3000 each, is that a normal price for them?



Depends on the size. I paid £3.5k for 3*3.3kw batteries (installed) so £1.2k each (installed)

I didn't pay vat as it was all part of the installation of the system.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> That's encouraging that the inverter and batteries don't need to be in the house as a bit stuck for space. We have a nice area behind the kitchen where I could build a storage box for the inverter / battery, however it is a long way from the fuse box / meter so would require quite a lot of cabling around the outside of the house.


Our inverter is on the outside of the gable end, but is probably only about 20ft from the meter. The battery will be going on the ground under the inverter.



Chislenko said:


> NB. Obviously Google was watching me yesterday reading this thread as I got a pop up as from EON advertising solar!! It suggested the batteries are circa £3000 each, is that a normal price for them?



As Kipster says, it depends on the capacity of the battery. We are having a 16KwH battery, and that is a little over £8000. A 10Kwh one would have been £6000.

But our installer are having supply problems with the battery (an LG model), so the latest estimate is September, and we had the panels installed in February.


----------



## jowwy (21 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our inverter is on the outside of the gable end, but is probably only about 20ft from the meter. The battery will be going on the ground under the inverter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



what battery are they getting??


----------



## Alex321 (21 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> what battery are they getting??



*16kWh LG* Prime DC-high voltage (400V) battery


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (21 Jul 2022)

irw said:


> I'm currently looking into getting solar power and battery storage now I've got a hybrid car...what company did you use, and would you recommend them?



UPS solar - North West based

did have a problem - but once I got in contact they sorted it out
I got several quotes and they were about the same all over but UPS were slightly cheaper and more local

I suggest you get a quote but also several others


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (21 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our inverter is on the outside of the gable end, but is probably only about 20ft from the meter. The battery will be going on the ground under the inverter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YEA GODS that is expensive

we have not got ours yet but it is a lot less than that
and I am not sure our panels will charge even that!

Personally I would suggest a system where you can get a couple of smaller batteries and see how it goes
but with the ability to lob anotehr one or two in when you get a better idea of what you can charge


----------



## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> YEA GODS that is expensive
> 
> we have not got ours yet but it is a lot less than that
> and I am not sure our panels will charge even that!
> ...



Remember, we have a 10.4Kw system. It will certainly charge that easily for at least 3 seasons.Yesterday, we produced 32.3Kwh, and used 13.2 - and yesterday was relatively low production, it was actually cloudy here for most of the day - and the 13 was only so high because we put the immersion heater on to use it up.


----------



## Chislenko (22 Jul 2022)

Right so another question for the more experienced.

As we no longer have a tank in the attic or an immersion heater (we changed to a Combi about eight years back) does it make the changing to Solar less cost effective. I.E. we will still be firing up the gas boiler when we want water.

Or does that just mean that any electricity produced will just power other appliances for longer before running out and switching to supplier electricity?


----------



## jowwy (22 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Remember, we have a 10.4Kw system. It will certainly charge that easily for at least 3 seasons.Yesterday, we produced 32.3Kwh, and used *132* - and yesterday was relatively low production, it was actually cloudy here for most of the day - and the 13 was only so high because we put the immersion heater on to use it up.



132kw/h used in day - thats a lot lol


----------



## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Right so another question for the more experienced.
> 
> As we no longer have a tank in the attic or an immersion heater (we changed to a Combi about eight years back) does it make the changing to Solar less cost effective. I.E. we will still be firing up the gas boiler when we want water.
> 
> Or does that just mean that any electricity produced will just power other appliances for longer before running out and switching to supplier electricity?



That depends on whether you are generating more than you use for most days. If you are, then yes, it will be a little less cost effective. But if you are still taking some from the grid most days, then it doesn't make much difference.


----------



## Milkfloat (22 Jul 2022)

How did you guys find your installers? I am interested in a system for an East West roof, with hot water diverter and maybe batteries, although thinking of switching to an EV can in the next few years so presume by then the car can be used as a giant battery. I just don't know where to start in getting accurate predictions and finding now cowboy installers.


----------



## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> How did you guys find your installers? I am interested in a system for an East West roof, with hot water diverter and maybe batteries, although thinking of switching to an EV can in the next few years so presume by then the car can be used as a giant battery. I just don't know where to start in getting accurate predictions and finding now cowboy installers.



We took out a trial subscription to Which?, read their articles on Solar, and then contacted a few of their "trusted" installers for quotes.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (23 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> Right so another question for the more experienced.
> 
> As we no longer have a tank in the attic or an immersion heater (we changed to a Combi about eight years back) does it make the changing to Solar less cost effective. I.E. we will still be firing up the gas boiler when we want water.
> 
> Or does that just mean that any electricity produced will just power other appliances for longer before running out and switching to supplier electricity?



If you generate more than you can use then the excess can be sent to the grid for other people to use
Which is nice and moral and all that and reduces the overall need to making electric from fossil fuels (by a little bit)

Luckily there is a Smart Export Guarantee which allow you to register with some of the energy companies and they will pay you for the excess. The rates are a lot less than you pay for electric you get FROM the grid but it is something
Currently I think Octopus pays the most but it varies so you need to check


----------



## MrGrumpy (24 Jul 2022)

Not much else you can do if your not using all your leccy ? Other than switch it off ? Seems daft not export it if you can ? Anyways looking around my street I’ll need to knock on doors . I reckon depending panel sizes . There is a chance of at least 16 panels on mine


----------



## jowwy (24 Jul 2022)

Im going to bet a few quotes over the next few weeks….before the mrs gets her private pension retirement lump sum. Looking at a 4.8kwh system, no battery for now and grid feed tarif from octopus Go


----------



## kipster (24 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Im going to bet a few quotes over the next few weeks….before the mrs gets her private pension retirement lump sum. Looking at a 4.8kwh system, no battery for now and grid feed tarif from octopus Go



If your considering batteries in the future make sure you look at hybrid inverters or you'll need to change it later


----------



## jowwy (24 Jul 2022)

kipster said:


> If your considering batteries in the future make sure you look at hybrid inverters or you'll need to change it later



Yeh i will get a full quote for everything…..the decide which option to take. We may even take a further lump sum from her nhs pension to top up the financial package we have available

we are also going to get new windows and doors fitted at the fromt of the house, the back was done before i bought it 7yrs ago.


----------



## CXRAndy (24 Jul 2022)

Check out a G99 versus G100 installation. 

You can control the grid feed in with G100, 

I'd seriously consider batteries, else you lose your spare electric generation

And get an Eddi-heats your water before sending anything back to grid


----------



## jowwy (24 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Check out a G99 versus G100 installation.
> 
> You can control the grid feed in with G100,
> 
> ...



Got a gas combi boiler…..


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (25 Jul 2022)

Ours was installed 2 weeks ago - still no paperwork

Rang the company this morning and was told it can take 2 weeks to sort it out
and then they need to contact the NDO (I think) who have to respond within 28 days but are responding much faster at the moment

Does this match watch what other people people have seen?


----------



## neil_merseyside (25 Jul 2022)

How do you find a good installer? 
I have 2 friends with solar that wouldn't recommend their installers.
Lots of puff on t'interweb seemingly from trade organisations who may be taking payments from installers so hardly unbiased.
Any (preferably very fussy members) delighted with a Wirral based solar installer?


----------



## CXRAndy (25 Jul 2022)

Check out Solar organisations for accreditted installers. Ask other owners in your neighbourhood. Don't be shy 😁


----------



## jowwy (25 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Check out Solar organisations for accreditted installers. Ask other owners in your neighbourhood. Don't be shy 😁



How many panels you got andy and hows it working out???


----------



## irw (26 Jul 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Ours was installed 2 weeks ago - still no paperwork
> 
> Rang the company this morning and was told it can take 2 weeks to sort it out
> and then they need to contact the NDO (I think) who have to respond within 28 days but are responding much faster at the moment
> ...



Hmmm...keep us posted! I'm currently sitting on a couple of quotes, and the company you suggested currently looks ideal...!


----------



## Phaeton (26 Jul 2022)

neil_merseyside said:


> How do you find a good installer?



Isn't that the biggest issue, it's like the Wild West out there at the moment, all the double glazing salesmen seems to have jumped onto the Solar bandwagon. 

I really want to do the installation myself, apart from maybe the last connection back to the grid, which as usual is shrouded in the terminology, has to be a competent person, but as usual there is no definition of what constitutes a competent person, the Installers out there will try to convince you that you have to have qualifications, but I don't think that is quite correct, however your provider may insist they are.


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Isn't that the biggest issue, it's like the Wild West out there at the moment, all the double glazing salesmen seems to have jumped onto the Solar bandwagon.
> 
> I really want to do the installation myself, apart from maybe the last connection back to the grid, which as usual is shrouded in the terminology, has to be a competent person, but as usual there is no definition of what constitutes a competent person, the Installers out there will try to convince you that you have to have qualifications, but I don't think that is quite correct, however your provider may insist they are.



It would need signed off by someone qualified I’d assume . That’s not to say your not competent!


----------



## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> How many panels you got andy and hows it working out???



I've not got any -yet. I've applied for 80kW array which is ground mounted and will also be fitting a 24kW array on a shed which needs re roofing at the end of the August. 

My electrician is qualified to install Solar, so will be using him and doing most of the installation with him. 

We are completely moving to electric generation with battery storage. 

We can use upto 75kW per day but this will rise when new electric equipment is installed

I will be informing the NGO of my installation once I get planning approval


----------



## jowwy (26 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I've not got any -yet. I've applied for 80kW array which is ground mounted and will also be fitting a 24kW array on a shed which needs re roofing at the end of the August.
> 
> My electrician is qualified to install Solar, so will be using him and doing most of the installation with him.
> 
> ...



what do you do to use that much energy??


----------



## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

We charge two or 3 EVs daily have swimming pool to heat, will have Aircon and airsource heating after Renovation


----------



## jowwy (26 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> We charge two or 3 EVs daily have swimming pool to heat, will have Aircon and airsource heating after Renovation



swimming pool.....are you really Rushi Sunak lol


----------



## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> swimming pool.....are you really Rushi Sunak lol



It's not as grand as it seems. 

Also solar needs to be bigger than during winter to have a chance of supplying most of our needs


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (26 Jul 2022)

irw said:


> Hmmm...keep us posted! I'm currently sitting on a couple of quotes, and the company you suggested currently looks ideal...!



Rang yesterday and they say it can take up to 14 days
Arrived this morning

Still have to wait for the network operator - apparently that have to respond within 28 days but it is normally quicker

They seem to have been very good so far whenever I had had to ring up and check something
Things like if they say they will ring back then they do - whcih there was a genuine problem I rang up and they had it sorted very quickly

I can;t compare them to others but they seem to have done a good job


----------



## kipster (26 Jul 2022)

I'm still waiting on the documentation from mine but they won't release it until ive paid the whole invoice. I'm holding back a small amount as there are still some bits for them to complete but that should all be done this week so I'll pay the rest then.


----------



## Gillstay (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Isn't that the biggest issue, it's like the Wild West out there at the moment, all the double glazing salesmen seems to have jumped onto the Solar bandwagon.
> 
> I really want to do the installation myself, apart from maybe the last connection back to the grid, which as usual is shrouded in the terminology, has to be a competent person, but as usual there is no definition of what constitutes a competent person, the Installers out there will try to convince you that you have to have qualifications, but I don't think that is quite correct, however your provider may insist they are.



We visited the Centre for alternative Tech before we decided what to do and found it very useful, but it did take a bit of looking.


----------



## Phaeton (26 Jul 2022)

Got an 'Energy report' says we need 12x Panels, 5kW Hybrid inverter & 10kWh battery


----------



## Chislenko (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Got an 'Energy report' says we need 12x Panels, 5kW Hybrid inverter & 10kWh battery



What does that add up to money wise if you don't mind sharing.


----------



## CXRAndy (26 Jul 2022)

Educated guess £14K


----------



## Phaeton (26 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> What does that add up to money wise if you don't mind sharing.



Don't know, I had a guy come round last night & promised me an email quote last night, still waiting for it to arrive, then I have 2 more guys coming on Thursday, once they've given me numbers I'll happily share them with you/all.


----------



## Phaeton (26 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> What does that add up to money wise if you don't mind sharing.



New email just come in from the firm, they appear to be like a broker

*Kit: *
12 x Tier 1 Panels
5kw GivEnergy inverter
2 x 5.2kw GivEnergy Batteries - £11,495

*OR*
9.5kw 1 x GivEnergy Battery - £10,995

Edit:- I have access to a website to purchase the panels etc. Here is the basic kit, without all the mounting, cable, trunking, 








So £3K for a warrantied installation isn't looking too bad now.


----------



## jowwy (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> New email just come in from the firm, they appear to be like a broker
> 
> *Kit: *
> 12 x Tier 1 Panels
> ...



I thought vat was zero on solar products as per the last spring budget……


----------



## kipster (26 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> I thought vat was zero on solar products as per the last spring budget……



It is as a fully supplied and installed setup. That looks like a webshop for the purchase only for which vat would be applied.


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> New email just come in from the firm, they appear to be like a broker
> 
> *Kit: *
> 12 x Tier 1 Panels
> ...



That’s looking not bad , however everyone’s use is different. Awaiting some initial feedback . My only concern Is this , is this like inviting double glazing salesman into your house !


----------



## jowwy (26 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> That’s looking not bad , however everyone’s use is different. Awaiting some initial feedback . My only concern Is this , is this like inviting double glazing salesman into your house !



It could be….but how else do we get to know the costs and not everyone could do it DIY


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2022)

Obviously will have to bite the bullet and invite them in !


----------



## Phaeton (26 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> That’s looking not bad , however everyone’s use is different. Awaiting some initial feedback . My only concern Is this , is this like inviting double glazing salesman into your house !


The guy who came yesterday was an installer not a salesman, own firm just him & an apprentice so no heavy pushing. I have 2 more coming on Thursday I suspect they maybe more sales orientated. The one I posted was all online so no real contact 


kipster said:


> It is as a fully supplied and installed setup. That looks like a webshop for the purchase only for which vat would be applied.


That's correct


----------



## Gillstay (26 Jul 2022)

I have seen some good cheap second hand stuff on e bay, but obviously there is a risk.


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> The guy who came yesterday was an installer not a salesman, own firm just him & an apprentice so no heavy pushing. I have 2 more coming on Thursday I suspect they maybe more sales orientated. The one I posted was all online so no real contact
> 
> That's correct



Contacted 3/4 companies and see what they come back with. I’d prefer to go with an indie / local supplier. However right now wanting costs and benefit ratio .


----------



## MrGrumpy (27 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> New email just come in from the firm, they appear to be like a broker
> 
> *Kit: *
> 12 x Tier 1 Panels
> ...



Those prices with batteries all in with panels as well ? Been quoted what looks like £11.8k for 5kwh PV panels ( 340w each ) plus batteries at 9.5kwh . Solis inverter inc . For an extra £350 I could have the hot water option . Which would be no brainer possibly ?

Possibly savings of £600 a year so payback not great really if that’s the case?

Edit the 5kw system would save up to £900 a year ? Now that’s not bad .

The guy did say solar is now about saving rather than earning !? 

Probably wrong time of year to be fitting as benefits will be lower to start with .


----------



## Phaeton (27 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Those prices with batteries all in with panels as well ? ?


Everything all done, including scaffolding which they won't need so hoping to shave some of that cost off, to get hot water I'd have to put a tank back in, not sure I can do that with a combi boiler


----------



## MrGrumpy (27 Jul 2022)

Just looking again my quote is a hell of a lot more if you add in 2 x 5.kWh batteries ! What’s the advantage over a single battery at 9.5 kWh


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (28 Jul 2022)

The company I have used have only suggested 2 smaller batteries (2.6 kWh) because they reckon most people only use that much except for a few weeks of the year
And, if the stats show that I can use more then they are just plug and play so it is easy to add more.

As opposed to having one big battery from the start and finding out you only ever charge half of it.

We shall see if their prediction work out
Just to add - Power of our panels comes to 3.2 kW so a bit lower and we don;t have a hot water tank so we couldn't use that option either


----------



## Phaeton (28 Jul 2022)

2nd quote came through last night £9,100 quite a but lower, but these guys are only offering 8 not 12 panels, 3kW inverter not 5kW, along with a 5KWh battery not the 10KWh ones


----------



## MrGrumpy (28 Jul 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> The company I have used have only suggested 2 smaller batteries (2.6 kWh) because they reckon most people only use that much except for a few weeks of the year
> And, if the stats show that I can use more then they are just plug and play so it is easy to add more.
> 
> As opposed to having one big battery from the start and finding out you only ever charge half of it.
> ...



That’s a fair point on batteries!


----------



## Phaeton (28 Jul 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> The company I have used have only suggested 2 smaller batteries (2.6 kWh) because they reckon most people only use that much except for a few weeks of the year
> And, if the stats show that I can use more then they are just plug and play so it is easy to add more.
> 
> As opposed to having one big battery from the start and finding out you only ever charge half of it.
> ...





MrGrumpy said:


> That’s a fair point on batteries!


Or that is all they can currently get their hands on, TBH I don't think it makes sense, in my mind you want the biggest batteries you can get, you then swap over to a company offering low overnight rates, charge them up overnight & supplement the PV through the day. Remember in winter the PV's will not produce as much


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (28 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> 2nd quote came through last night £9,100 quite a but lower, but these guys are only offering 8 not 12 panels, 3kW inverter not 5kW, along with a 5KWh battery not the 10KWh ones



When I got quotes some people said they could put 10 panels on but when they were pushed said they were not sure

The company I went with never over claimed but said that sometimes the fitters can manage to fit an extra one on where they get there. They sent 10 panels but only quoted for 8 - with an agreement to fit as many as they could - which turned out to be the 8.

No point in fitting more expensive stuff if you can;t use it


----------



## irw (28 Jul 2022)

Thanks to @ebikeerwidnes 's comments, I'm now sitting on a quote from UPS Solar for £10,422. This is for 14x Sharp 400w PV Panels and 5.8kWh of batteries. I asked about the potential to add more batteries in the future, and, as @ebikeerwidnes has alluded to, they've said this is easy due to the modular system. I also asked about the potential to add more panels into the system, and got this fairly comprehensive sounding reply:
"
Yes, you can add more panels in the future if the DNO allows you too. 
The maximum system allowed on a single phase property is just under 6kW. This is in regards to the inverter, the largest inverter that the national grid will allow on domestic property; which is a 3.68kW inverter, we can install just under 6kW of solar onto this unit (An inverter is always under sized).

You will see this unit generate in excess of 4kW when conditions allow but will never allow more than 16amps to go back to the grid in line with the Grids regulations.

The idea of the extra capacity above 4kW is for the majority of days in the UK when the panels are unable to produce at 100% we will generate more power and therefore produce a lot more power over the year than if we were to put just put 3.68 or 4kW of solar panels on this inverter. Anything higher than 6kW system or a higher inverter above 3.68kW inverter a DNO (G99) application is needed. This can take up to 120 working days to be accepted that's if you are.
"

I've just spoken to them on the phone to progress the job and asked for a bit more clarification on this- the reason I'm digging into this is because my roof is east-west, and I'm a bit concerned about not necessarily getting as much as I can out of the installation, hence my interest in splitting the system across the two sides of the roof and adding more panels. The chap I spoke to said because of these circumstances, it would probably be accepatable to add two more panels (one per string feeding into the dual-input inverter), as each string wouldn't be fully generating at any one time due to the sun moving across the roof, but any more would require a more powerful inverter, which is where getting further approval (or not) from the DNO comes in.
I'm now awaiting someone to come out to do a technical survey, when I'll put this question to them once they can actually see the physical aspects of the roof. 

In the meantime, I've downloaded an app called 'Loop', which enables me to see the data my smart meter is generating (which is very interesting). Interestingly, it also has a 'solar simulator' feature, which I turned on yesterday, and will hopefully see some data later today!


----------



## Phaeton (28 Jul 2022)

I would query the 120 working days for the DNO, people are complaining on FB that it's taking a month not that long, sounds like they don't want to do the paperwork.


----------



## jowwy (28 Jul 2022)

ive just contacted a local company that fitted a work colleagues of mine, to come and look and quote for works. There are also a few other things on their website that im interested in talking to them about, that could hopefully cut money off Gas and Electricity costs in the long run.


----------



## Alex321 (28 Jul 2022)

irw said:


> Thanks to @ebikeerwidnes 's comments, I'm now sitting on a quote from UPS Solar for £10,422. This is for 14x Sharp 400w PV Panels and 5.8kWh of batteries. I asked about the potential to add more batteries in the future, and, as @ebikeerwidnes has alluded to, they've said this is easy due to the modular system. I also asked about the potential to add more panels into the system, and got this fairly comprehensive sounding reply:
> "
> Yes, you can add more panels in the future if the DNO allows you too.
> The maximum system allowed on a single phase property is just under 6kW. This is in regards to the inverter, the largest inverter that the national grid will allow on domestic property; which is a 3.68kW inverter, we can install just under 6kW of solar onto this unit (An inverter is always under sized).
> ...



Some of that is a load of rubbish. I'd be very cautious going with a supplier who seem so concerned about DNO applications. It implies they have sometimes had difficulty getting approval. That should be more or less a formality, not "up to 120 working days to be accepted that's if you are".

There is no limit to the size of inverter allowed on a domestic property - we have a 10Kw one installed (on a 10.14Kw system) in February. That 3.68Kw inverter is only the limit if you don't want to get DNO approval.

And the DNO authorisation came through in a few weeks - we signed the authorisation letter on 16th November, and our system was installed (with all approvals granted well before that) on 10th February. It can take up to 11 weeks, but doesn't usually.


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Jul 2022)

irw said:


> Thanks to @ebikeerwidnes 's comments, I'm now sitting on a quote from UPS Solar for £10,422. This is for 14x Sharp 400w PV Panels and 5.8kWh of batteries. I asked about the potential to add more batteries in the future, and, as @ebikeerwidnes has alluded to, they've said this is easy due to the modular system. I also asked about the potential to add more panels into the system, and got this fairly comprehensive sounding reply:
> "
> Yes, you can add more panels in the future if the DNO allows you too.
> The maximum system allowed on a single phase property is just under 6kW. This is in regards to the inverter, the largest inverter that the national grid will allow on domestic property; which is a 3.68kW inverter, we can install just under 6kW of solar onto this unit (An inverter is always under sized).
> ...



You can go bigger I believe if you have a G100 installation. This allows for grid feed in to be controlled by the inverter, effectively mitigating the NGO concerns about excessive power being fed into the grid

I'm going to be trying for G100 because I want a fair bit more solar plus storage 

https://voltacon.com/2019/05/22/voltacon-inverters-g98-g99-and-g100/


----------



## Solocle (28 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> You can go bigger I believe if you have a G100 installation. This allows for grid feed in to be controlled by the inverter, effectively mitigating the NGO concerns about excessive power being fed into the grid
> 
> I'm going to be trying for G100 because I want a fair bit more solar plus storage



There's also that you can get a 11 kW DNO notification (not permission) with a 3 phase supply, as it's 16 amps per phase. But that would require a 3 phase connection to your house. Entirely plausible, but an added cost.

3 phase power is neat, but to take advantage of it you'd also need to do load balancing of your internal circuits, which is why most installations are single phase.


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Jul 2022)

Solocle said:


> It's that you can get a 11 kW DNO notification (not permission) with a 3 phase supply, as it's 16 amps per phase. But that would require a 3 phase connection to your house. Entirely plausible, but an added cost.
> 
> 3 phase power is neat, but to take advantage of it you'd also need to do load balancing of your internal circuits, which is why most installations are single phase.



Mine will be 3 phase, I've just got our new supplier to upgrade the remaining single phase meter back to 3 phase. There is 3 phase on the incoming cabling. Load balancing will be done on the internal power demands, but items like airsource heat pumps and aircon units will be 3 phase, these will be the biggest power demands. 

As I understand, because feedin tariffs are virtually non existent now, NGO don't want uncontrolled grid feed in. G100 certified inverters control this. I have not looked at pricing difference between G99/100

 If the users are planning on more solar capacity it would be prudent to make sure your inverter is already NGO compliant


----------



## Solocle (28 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Mine will be 3 phase, I've just got our new supplier to upgrade the remaining single phase meter back to 3 phase. There is 3 phase on the incoming cabling. Load balancing will be done on the internal power demands, but items like airsource heat pumps and aircon units will be 3 phase, these will be the biggest power demands



What I don't get is why batteries are necessary in most circumstances. It seems like a lot of cost compared to just using the grid as a buffer. Obviously it's better for the distribution companies not to have big surges of supply and demand, so I'd imagine a setup like yours they'd be keen to see batteries. But smaller domestic setups where it's a question of notification rather than permission?


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Jul 2022)

Batteries if correctly sized will enable the user to run appliances at night from the solar they charged up during the day. That's why it's better to have a bit more solar so you can charge and run equipment during the day. This works well for folk who work in the office, come home, solar has charged the batteries and they can then use this storage to run the equipment. If you also have a hot water tank, again this can take excess solar and heat the water. 

This is where sophisticated control of solar/battery/grid is extremely useful. 

Now cost, is very debatable, because if you can get a super low overnight tariff like 5p/kW. A user would then need to calculate how long it would take to recoup battery costs compared to cheap overnight electric. 

The question is, how long are you going to be able to get 5p overnight electric??


----------



## Alex321 (28 Jul 2022)

Solocle said:


> What I don't get is why batteries are necessary in most circumstances. It seems like a lot of cost compared to just using the grid as a buffer. Obviously it's better for the distribution companies not to have big surges of supply and demand, so I'd imagine a setup like yours they'd be keen to see batteries. But smaller domestic setups where it's a question of notification rather than permission?



Solar only generates during daylight, and only a decent amount in bright daylight.

So the battery stops you having to take power from the grid when you aren't generating enough for your use. 

And taking power from the grid is usually more expensive than what you get paid for sending power to the grid, which is why it makes more economic sense to store as much as you can of your surplus.


----------



## Chislenko (28 Jul 2022)

I came to this thread with an open mind and keen to look into this.

However I am now just confused 😟

Seems to be a lot of permutations and I accept one size does not fit all but I am getting to the point where I don't know my inverter from my elbow 🙂

I suppose one big consideration for us advancing in years is how long are we going to live!!


----------



## Alex321 (28 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose one big consideration for us advancing in years is how long are we going to live!!



It is, but if you have descendants, it could affect their inheritance.

I've seen estimates that solar adds between 1/3 and 1/2 of the cost to the value of the house. So if you live until it has paid back more than 50% of the cost, your kids will be better off.


----------



## Phaeton (28 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> It is, but if you have descendants, it could affect their inheritance.
> 
> I've seen estimates that solar adds between 1/3 and 1/2 of the cost to the value of the house. So if you live until it has paid back more than 50% of the cost, your kids will be better off.



Funnily enough I've just had another guy here giving me a quote, they used to use the old formula of 8% increase in value of the house, which is fine if your house costs £150K but as a single roomed flat in that there Lardun costs over £1/2 million it's not right, he claimed that they now use the average of about £16k increase in price for having PV


----------



## MrGrumpy (28 Jul 2022)

Interesting , I’ve got some one coming out Monday to do a quick survey and cost up . Already had one quote , local business which I’d rather hand out business too . As long as not out of the park . Think there are also interest free loans available to cover some of the cost .


----------



## Phaeton (28 Jul 2022)

This is the quote from today

Your Panels DMEGC 400W All Black x 12
Your Battery Growatt 3.3Kw battery x 2 
Your Invertor Growatt 3.6 Hybrid Inverter x1

Other Products 
Scaffolding
PV on Roof and Hazard Labels Pack Panel Installation
MCS Building control Registration Installation
HIES Warranty
Generation Meter
EPVS Validation
Electrical connections
DC cable
D/C 80A isolator
A/C Isolator 32A
3D Model Design
24 Month Workmanship Warranty

Total: £12,131.36 

Although not mentioned above he claimed that there was a 25 year warranty on the whole instal, anything that fails in that time would be covered, which I think is the HIES Warranty


----------



## kipster (28 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> This is the quote from today
> 
> Your Panels DMEGC 400W All Black x 12
> Your Battery Growatt 3.3Kw battery x 2
> ...



Prices must be going up with demand.
I got 18*390w panels
3*3kw growatt batteries
1*5kw growatt hybrid inverter

Installed with all the bits, warranties and documentation (yet to show up)

I paid £11,500


----------



## irw (28 Jul 2022)

kipster said:


> Prices must be going up with demand.
> I got 18*390w panels
> 3*3kw growatt batteries
> 1*5kw growatt hybrid inverter
> ...


Would you mind letting us know what company it's for please?


----------



## kipster (28 Jul 2022)

irw said:


> Would you mind letting us know what company it's for please?



It was Infinity renewables via a solar together scheme. The original company on the scheme couldn't deliver and infinity renewables took all the customers on.


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

So i have had a price for a 3kw system consisting of

8 x 385 JA solar panels
1 x Solis 5kw Hybrid inverter

all the cabling, fixings, installation, scaffold, certs etc etc

for £5995

So far since midnight, we have only used 1.55kwh upto now, im working from home and partner retired and downsatirs watching the Tv..


----------



## MrGrumpy (29 Jul 2022)

5kw for £6100 here, 340 JA panels however . I really want the max number of panels I can fit . Maximise on full days .


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> 5kw for £6100 here, 340 JA panels however . I really want the max number of panels I can fit . Maximise on full days .



i get that......at the mo, im only using 269watts of power, so thats fridge freezer, chest freezer, TV, sky box, soundbar, BT router. so with a 3kw system on the roof i would wasting 2700watts if it was producing at 100% which we know doesnt happen.

I could got to a 4kw system for £6995


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

Just checked and so far this month i have used 151kwh of electric.........which is pretty damn low to be fair, so thats £45 + SC

if solar allows me to get that down to below 50kwh, i'll be a happy bunny.


----------



## kipster (29 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Just checked and so far this month i have used 151kwh of electric.........which is pretty damn low to be fair, so thats £45 + SC
> 
> if solar allows me to get that down to below 50kwh, i'll be a happy bunny.


So far this month I've produced 876kwh of solar, consumed 405kwh and imported 60kwh from the grid. 

The batteries where installed mid way through the month and since then I've imported about 8kwh from the grid, so in a summer month I should only import 15-20kwh from the grid plus standing charges, so about £20 a month.

I WFH about half the week, my wife is retired and about most of the day, two sons at home at the moment. One WFH everyday, the other a student home from uni and as the electric is free he seems to think that leaving every electrical appliance he has on is ok.

A lot of the consumption is for the batteries charging. We seem to deplete the batteries by 60% between 6pm and 7am but the boys are awake until silly o'clock in the morning.

We run the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer (for towels) during the day.


----------



## Chislenko (29 Jul 2022)

I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.



Dons tin hat😀


----------



## kipster (29 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dons tin hat😀



I don't disagree but I don't think there is a way to opt out? I get nothing from the government (not does my wife even though she had a disability), so it is a bit of a novelty to get something from them (although I would have paid it to them through taxes one way or another).


----------



## Phaeton (29 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dons tin hat😀



I'll be honest I don't understand the Governments logic on this one, maybe it's not for this thread & one for the dark place, but instead of causing themselves a huge headache to pay each household the money, why not force Ofgen to cap the price in the first place.


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dons tin hat😀



helps with gas bill though


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I'll be honest I don't understand the Governments logic on this one, maybe it's not for this thread & one for the dark place, but instead of causing themselves a huge headache to pay each household the money, why not force Ofgen to cap the price in the first place.



im guessing its because ofgem are supposed to be an independant regulator and the government are not supposed to get involved


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dons tin hat😀



it also pays towards the cost of fitting the solar in the first place, cause we aint getting grants for it anymore and the payments back to the grid are shoot


----------



## Alex321 (29 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> i get that......at the mo, im only using 269watts of power, so thats fridge freezer, chest freezer, TV, sky box, soundbar, BT router. so with a 3kw system on the roof i would wasting 2700watts if it was producing at 100% which we know doesnt happen.
> 
> I could got to a 4kw system for £6995



100% doesn't happen, but we have had a peak of 9.11Kw from a nominal 10.14Kw system. (At 13:00 on 26/06). You definitely only get the best out of the system with a battery though, because the point where you are generating the most tends to be around the time you use the least.


----------



## Alex321 (29 Jul 2022)

kipster said:


> So far this month I've produced 876kwh of solar, consumed 405kwh and imported 60kwh from the grid.
> 
> The batteries where installed mid way through the month and since then I've imported about 8kwh from the grid, so in a summer month I should only import 15-20kwh from the grid plus standing charges, so about £20 a month.
> 
> ...



We've produced 1.29Mw so far this month, of which we have consumed 208Kwh and imported 105 from the grid. When the battery is finally installed, I wouldn't expect to be importing anything between April and September, and not much in October or March. (In March this year we produced 985kWh and used a total of 385 (223 of which was imported)


----------



## Alex321 (29 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> it also pays towards the cost of fitting the solar in the first place, cause we aint getting grants for it anymore and the payments back to the grid are shoot



They aren't bad if you go with Octopus Agile.

In fact there are times when you get paid more than you would be charged, as they apply a cap of 55p/kWh on import (was 35p until recently), but there is no cap on export (both are tied to the half hourly wholesale price with multipliers).

If you look at their blog, they say the outgoing price is typically between 4p and 10p, but that was in 2018, and prices have risen dramatically since then. If you look here you can see the rates - at one point last year you (briefly) got as much as £2.36 per unit.

Today's prices vary between 25.22p in the middle of the night, and 44.38p at 17:30 - with batteries, you can choose to export at the most expensive times (usually between 4pm and 8pm).


----------



## MrGrumpy (29 Jul 2022)

Chislenko said:


> I suppose everyone with Solar and therefore reduced bills should tell the Government they don't need the £400 help and give it to more needy recipient's.
> 
> 
> 
> Dons tin hat😀



Means tested would have been better maybe , either way it’s not going to make a dent in my energy bills. I’m now 100% certain I’ll be getting solar panels . Looking at the sun just now I could nearly cover the rear my roof as well.

Looking to the rear it faces WNW , so still capable of generating power I’d think , in spring summer. Winter might be a hard push.


----------



## Solocle (29 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Solar only generates during daylight, and only a decent amount in bright daylight.
> 
> So the battery stops you having to take power from the grid when you aren't generating enough for your use.
> 
> And taking power from the grid is usually more expensive than what you get paid for sending power to the grid, which is why it makes more economic sense to store as much as you can of your surplus.



The other consideration is V2G technology. Probably an incredibly naïve MSPaint diagram, but something like this would surely reduce the need for additional battery capacity:


----------



## Phaeton (29 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> im guessing its because ofgem are supposed to be an independant regulator and the government are not supposed to get involved



That's a joke I raised a complaint with them earlier in the year about British Gas & their abuse of their position & Ofgem sided with them after leaving 2 pensioners in a house with no heat for 10 days last December.


----------



## Alex321 (29 Jul 2022)

Solocle said:


> The other consideration is V2G technology. Probably an incredibly naïve MSPaint diagram, but something like this would surely reduce the need for additional battery capacity:



Yes. You are there effectively using your vehicle as a storage battery.

Effective if you don't actually drive much, not so effective if you frequently spend most of the day with the vehicle away from the house.

And of course if you don't already have an EV with that capability, a lot more expensive up front than adding a battery.


----------



## Solocle (29 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Yes. You are there effectively using your vehicle as a storage battery.
> 
> Effective if you don't actually drive much, not so effective if you frequently spend most of the day with the vehicle away from the house.
> 
> And of course if you don't already have an EV with that capability, a lot more expensive up front than adding a battery.



Yeah, storing excess solar and having the battery at the office 9-5 isn't a great combination...

Although it would work well for my parents, which is sort of where the idea came from. They already have a Nissan Leaf, and being retired, if the car is away from the house, then generally it's not going to be an issue (you don't need as much power!).


----------



## CXRAndy (29 Jul 2022)

I'm trying to get an inverter with VTG capability. 

Our Nissan is VTG compliant with a capacity of 7kW peak supply capacity and around 50kW storage


----------



## cougie uk (29 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I'm trying to get an inverter with VTG capability.
> 
> Our Nissan is VTG compliant with a capacity of 7kW peak supply capacity and around 50kW storage



Are all leafs like this ? Ours is a 2018 42kwh version.


----------



## CXRAndy (29 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Are all leafs like this ? Ours is a 2018 42kwh version.



Yes, I believe so. 😁. The one company I've been in contact with was Wallbox. I have spoken with the UK sales lady, who said they were adding new firmware to their latest model and release was being held till this was completed. Not sure if it is waffle. 

However a few utility companies last year I believe we're signing up clients, who had solar and owned a Nissan leaf and were interested in the VTG. There was some contract where you promised to connect your car to the grid overnight. Wallbox were involved, but since have gone quiet. I'm hoping there will be others entering this market soon.


----------



## Tom... (29 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I'm hoping there will be others entering this market soon.



https://nuvve.com/


----------



## jowwy (29 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> That's a joke I raised a complaint with them earlier in the year about British Gas & their abuse of their position & Ofgem sided with them after leaving 2 pensioners in a house with no heat for 10 days last December.



Thats still not saying they arent independant is it………..we all know they have issues they need to sort out internally with how they have dealt with fuel cost rises etcetc


----------



## CXRAndy (29 Jul 2022)

Tom... said:


> https://nuvve.com/



I've signed upto their mailing list. Again they seem a little light on actual products. Will see what comes from being on their mailing list


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

TBH I am finding this whole process unenjoyable, trying to get somebody to give a quote is hard enough then when you get the quote trying to understand if it's reasonable or not. The guy who quote £9K for 8 panels comes across as somebody if there were issues I'm not sure I'd get support from him, the guy who quote £12.5K comes across as a used car salesman, he turned up in a 650bhp Range Rover that does 14mpg, I'm not sure it gave me the right impression of his company, for one selling environmentally friendly products. His product he also claimed is monitored 24/7 by their servers & control room, I'm not sure I want that, or maybe I'm just a luddite, but it seems a bit big brother to me.


----------



## jowwy (31 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> TBH I am finding this whole process unenjoyable, trying to get somebody to give a quote is hard enough then when you get the quote trying to understand if it's reasonable or not. The guy who quote £9K for 8 panels comes across as somebody if there were issues I'm not sure I'd get support from him, the guy who quote £12.5K comes across as a used car salesman, he turned up in a 650bhp Range Rover that does 14mpg, I'm not sure it gave me the right impression of his company, for one selling environmentally friendly products. His product he also claimed is monitored 24/7 by their servers & control room, I'm not sure I want that, or maybe I'm just a luddite, but it seems a bit big brother to me.



Yeh i dont think id want my solar being monitored by someone else tbh……….unless they are paying me for exporting extra kwh to the grid.


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Yeh i dont think id want my solar being monitored by someone else tbh……….unless they are paying me for exporting extra kwh to the grid.



His argument was they monitored each panel individually & they would notice if there was an issue with any of them & make arrangements to swap the panel out (if needed) under the warranty


----------



## CXRAndy (31 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> TBH I am finding this whole process unenjoyable, trying to get somebody to give a quote is hard enough then when you get the quote trying to understand if it's reasonable or not. The guy who quote £9K for 8 panels comes across as somebody if there were issues I'm not sure I'd get support from him, the guy who quote £12.5K comes across as a used car salesman, he turned up in a 650bhp Range Rover that does 14mpg, I'm not sure it gave me the right impression of his company, for one selling environmentally friendly products. His product he also claimed is monitored 24/7 by their servers & control room, I'm not sure I want that, or maybe I'm just a luddite, but it seems a bit big brother to me.



You want monitoring through the manufacturer not an installer. Solar edge has panel level monitoring, so you can see failure on individual level. You pay more for Solaredge, but it is good quality products. There are others out there. I'll ask my in-laws what they have


----------



## jowwy (31 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> His argument was they monitored each panel individually & they would notice if there was an issue with any of them & make arrangements to swap the panel out (if needed) under the warranty



Yeh right lol……as if you believe him


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> You want monitoring through the manufacturer not an installer. Solar edge has panel level monitoring, so you can see failure on individual level. You pay more for Solaredge, but it is good quality products. There are others out there. I'll ask my in-laws what they have



He's quoting 

DMEGC 400W All Black with Growatt 3.6 Hybrid Inverter


----------



## MrGrumpy (31 Jul 2022)

So question what is to be gained from monitoring? Other than for failure ? What I’m really saying is what’s the big problem ?


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> So question what is to be gained from monitoring? Other than for failure ? What I’m really saying is what’s the big problem ?



Might be an irrational fear, big brother & all of that, what happens when the unit(s) can't communicate with their server?

I know somebody who had Hive fitted, there was a blip in power & he lost full control of his central heating & hot water until they did something at their end which took 3 days. It completely locked him out of his own system & he couldn't do anything. He must have spent 5-6 hours on the phone with them in that time.


----------



## jowwy (31 Jul 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> So question what is to be gained from monitoring? Other than for failure ? What I’m really saying is what’s the big problem ?



My fear would be how the communication is done…..do they need to piggy back my broadband and therefore, could they then hack into my broadband for other uses. Also what happens if they dont come and repair or they go bankrupt out of business etc etc and they are still piggy backing my broadband for communication, only now i dont know who it is or how to remove them.


----------



## CXRAndy (31 Jul 2022)

You want 25 yr manufacturers warranty on the panels. Usually 10 years on the inverters, again manufacturer warranty. Next best a long established insurance company policy to cover warranty. 

*Don't accept the installers warranty at all.*

It's a bit paranoid to worry about your broadband being hacked. Most data is encrypted these days


----------



## geocycle (31 Jul 2022)

Naïve question: when I looked Eon didn’t want to provide a system where I used the actual electric I produced, it all went into grid and was discounted from the bill. The result was in the event of a power cut I’d have no independent power other than batteries. Is this the case with other installers you are discussing? Is that what the DC to AC inverter does?


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

geocycle said:


> Naïve question: when I looked Eon didn’t want to provide a system where I used the actual electric I produced, it all went into grid and was discounted from the bill. The result was in the event of a power cut I’d have no independent power other than batteries. Is this the case with other installers you are discussing? Is that what the DC to AC inverter does?



In the event of a power cut apart from a single socket you'll lose power as the inverter needs to see 240v AC current to work, mad situation I know but that's the way they are built


----------



## jowwy (31 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> In the event of a power cut apart from a single socket you'll lose power as the inverter needs to see 240v AC current to work, mad situation I know but that's the way they are built



Hybrid inverters use power from the batteries, so can still run during a power cut……for a short period


----------



## Phaeton (31 Jul 2022)

jowwy said:


> Hybrid inverters use power from the batteries, so can still run during a power cut……for a short period



Not from what I've been reading, most shut down when the AC fails, they will however feed just a single/double socket usual placed at the side. This is a safety feature otherwise the inverter would try to power the whole grid


----------



## jowwy (31 Jul 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Not from what I've been reading, most shut down when the AC fails, they will however feed just a single/double socket usual placed at the side. This is a safety feature otherwise the inverter would try to power the whole grid



Ive got an inverter running down my shed with zero 240v feed…..maybe its Different with household and grid tied systems, but there are some out there that will work in a power cut

look at the ecoflow power system, also its only if your feeding back to the grid


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Not from what I've been reading, most shut down when the AC fails, they will however feed just a single/double socket usual placed at the side. This is a safety feature otherwise the inverter would try to power the whole grid



If you have a 6kW battery backup, then barring huge power demands, you should be able to keep the whole house running. the system should seamlessly switch to battery feed if there is a mains drop out. If the system does not do that, look at systems that do. The obvious one is Tesla. Tesla Powerwall compared to other of similar sized system is not expensive. They just use a bigger battery than most
Powerwall Specs https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/powerwall

*Energy Capacity*
13.5 kWh
100% depth of discharge
90% round trip efficiency
*Power*
7kW peak / 5kW continuous
Quick backup transition
Pure sine wave output
*Size and Weight*
L x W x D
45.3" x 29.6" x 5.75"
1150 mm x 753 mm x 147 mm
251.3 lbs / 114 kg
*Installation*
Floor or wall mounted
Indoor or outdoor
Up to 10 Powerwalls---------------------*This feature for power hungry properties*
-4°F to 122°F / -20°C to 50°C
Water and dust resistance to IP67
*Certifications*
Meets local safety standards and regulations
*Warranty*
10 years


----------



## Phaeton (1 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Ive got an inverter running down my shed with zero 240v feed…..maybe its Different with household and grid tied systems, but there are some out there that will work in a power cut
> 
> look at the ecoflow power system, also its only if your feeding back to the grid





CXRAndy said:


> If you have a 6kW battery backup, then barring huge power demands, you should be able to keep the whole house running. the system should seamlessly switch to battery feed if there is a mains drop out. If the system does not do that, look at systems that do. The obvious one is Tesla. Tesla Powerwall compared to other of similar sized system is not expensive. They just use a bigger battery than most
> Powerwall Specs https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/powerwall
> 
> *Energy Capacity*
> ...


As said most do not if grid tied, which I think it pretty stupid, you would have thought all it was was an extra couple of relays that in the event of AC failure drops the connection & isolates the house. I understand the safety aspect that if you don't drop it you'd be trying to power the whole grid & flatten you battery in minutes if not seconds.

You are correct the Tesla does do it, but it's 50% more & currently an 18 month waiting list


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)




----------



## Phaeton (1 Aug 2022)

Don't shoot the messenger I'm only going on what I have been advised by the installers & the FB groups, unless the inverter sees AC current it will not provide power to your consumer unit & will only provide power to the separate failback sockets.

I agree it's a ludicrous situation


----------



## kipster (1 Aug 2022)

It all depends on the inverter, mine can only provide to a socket through the addition of an auto transfer switch. Another inverter with a very similar part number provides full UPS functionality but that is a 3 phase inverter.


----------



## t_rifles (1 Aug 2022)

Tesla powerwall has provided a full backup solution to power the home and still charge from solar for sometime now and I think Solaredge may have a recent new solution approved for uk.


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Aug 2022)

kipster said:


> It all depends on the inverter, mine can only provide to a socket through the addition of an auto transfer switch. Another inverter with a very similar part number provides full UPS functionality but that is a 3 phase inverter.



I've just been looking and most seem to provide ups via 3 phase- phew, just had the remaining meter on our property upgraded from single to 3 phase


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Don't shoot the messenger I'm only going on what I have been advised by the installers & the FB groups, unless the inverter sees AC current it will not provide power to your consumer unit & will only provide power to the separate failback sockets.
> 
> I agree it's a ludicrous situation



not shooting anyone, just provding you with more information, to make a more informed choice.


----------



## Phaeton (1 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> not shooting anyone, just provding you with more information, to make a more informed choice.



Providing a link to the info would have been helpful: the only system which I know that acts as a UPS in the event of a power failure is as mentioned earlier the Tesla Powerwall, if this is not Tesla I would be interested in the link


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

https://eu.ecoflow.com/products/smart-home-panel?variant=41989906301092

*A smart home battery system *Made specifically for the DELTA Pro ecosystem, the Smart Home Panel connects the DELTA Pro portable power station right to your home’s wiring.

*Backup power for essential home appliances* When the grid goes down, the Smart Home Panel instantly switches to battery backup mode using any connected DELTA Pro units. Your home will go on strong with up to 7200W of power and 25kWh of energy when properly equipped.


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

https://regenpower.com/articles/hybrid-inverter-vs-off-grid-inverter/

*What is the difference between a hybrid inverter and an off-grid Inverter?*

Hybrid inverters generate power exactly the same way as common string solar inverters. The difference is that it has built-in battery connections to enable energy storage for later use. *This battery backup ability enables most hybrid systems to also operate as a backup power supply during a blackout.*

The off-grid inverter draws power from the battery, converts it from DC, and outputs AC. Off-grid inverters cannot synchronise with the utility grid. These are designed to work alone. An off-grid inverter cannot feed power derived from solar or battery into the utility grid. On the other hand, the hybrid inverter can feedback on the power to the utility grid.

*Advantages and disadvantages of hybrid inverter& Off-grid solar inverter*

The main advantage of a hybrid inverter is that the excess power can draw from the grid when the solar power produced is not sufficient to run the load. In addition to that the storage batteries provide backup in case of grid failure. *Therefore hybrid inverters provide a constant power supply and you need not worry about power outages.*

The battery system connected to the hybrid inverter allows maximum utilization of plentiful solar radiation on sunny days. Hence, it ensures optimal utilization of renewable resources. A hybrid inverter does not require frequent servicing and it has a low maintenance system.

The major concern is that adding a hybrid inverter into the existing solar system demands a complete and costly re-work of the entire solar panel system. Hence, hybrid inverters are not an ideal option for upgrading an existing system. Moreover, the initial installation expense of a hybrid inverter is very high compared to the other solar power inverters. In terms of compatibility, not all hybrid inverters work with every type of battery.

The attractive feature of off-grid inverters is they are cheaper compared to hybrid inverters. The primary concern of off-grid inverters is a power outage. It cannot work in conjunction with the utility grid. Therefore, electricity produced only through solar may not suffice the need particularly when the sun is not shining.

*Benefits of Hybrid solar inverter*

Most hybrid inverters can be programmed to function in different modes. For instance, the grid-tie mode functions as a normal solar inverter. The hybrid mode stores excess solar energy during the day. *The backup mode works as a solar inverter when the grid is connected and automatically switches to backup power mode during a grid outage*. Finally, the off-grid mode of hybrid inverters functions like an off-grid inverter.

Many hybrid inverters combine performance monitoring, charge control, and bi-directional AC DC inverter functionality into a single unit at a lower cost. Moreover, a hybrid solar inverter ensures optimal energy consumption by acting as a battery inverter. Many of the hybrid inverters provide mobile app cloud monitoring systems.

This feature ensures to track your system’s output and receive notifications by logging into the app. The configurable mode in many of the hybrid inverters allows you to put your system on vacation or standby.

*The difference in working of hybrid & off-grid system*

A hybrid system is a combination of solar and battery storage in the same equipment. The system is also connected to the utility grid. In this system, once the battery is fully charged excess solar power can be exported to the grid. The grid provides backup power when the battery is exhausted. There is no utility grid in an off-grid system. Here, the excess power will be stored in the battery bank. It will stop receiving power from the solar system, once the battery is full.

*Can a hybrid inverter work without batteries?*

Yes. A hybrid inverter can work without batteries. Instead of a battery, it is connected to the utility grid. In such a case, the inverter supplies power both from the solar and utility grid. However, a battery backup allows using battery power to back up any essential household circuit during a blackout. A hybrid inverter without a battery can not provide power in the case of black our. If grid stability is not a concern then a hybrid inverter without a battery would be a perfect economical option. Moreover, it is easy to maintain because there are fewer components to take care of.


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

https://www.ginlong.com/us/conews/36330.html

another option in the UK and one my supplier is offering. Again can be used in offgrid mode in case of a power outage.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Aug 2022)

SolarEdge do have a backup power system available in the UK now.
https://www.solaredge.com/StorEdge-solutions/backup-power-solution


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> SolarEdge do have a backup power system available in the UK now.
> https://www.solaredge.com/StorEdge-solutions/backup-power-solution



there are now multiple systems available for backup power if there is a power outage.......

from the like of growatt, solis, voltocan...you just have to get the right one and be willing to pay extra for it and ensure the batteries are compatible.


----------



## MrGrumpy (1 Aug 2022)

Dare I say it we might see more power outages due to current climate in energy but it’s not something I’d worry too much about in domestic situation ? Or again am I missing something here ? 

PS had to change the solar appt tonight for Thursday, more pressing matters to attend too.


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Dare I say it we might see more power outages due to current climate in energy but it’s not something I’d worry too much about in domestic situation ? Or again am I missing something here ?
> 
> PS had to change the solar appt tonight for Thursday, more pressing matters to attend too.



tbh i cant remember the last time we had a power outage.....so not something i thought of, but did research options available before coming here and putting my views forward.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> tbh i cant remember the last time we had a power outage.....so not something i thought of, but did research options available before coming here and putting my views forward.



We had one lasting nearly an hour during the big storms this last winter, and have a had a few of just seconds in the last year.


----------



## Phaeton (1 Aug 2022)

We're not particularly rural but I would say we have 4-5 a year, unusual for any to be of significant length normally 15-30 minutes, we have quite a few off/ons just enough to screw up the clocks & the PC's but the last was about 6 hours.

A breaker failed & like all these things they don't carry stock in the van anymore so had to wait for the part to arrive from 50 miles away, only to find it wasn't the right one, but because it was in an evening the only person who could get it was the guy who'd taken the wrong one, so he had to drive back & forth again to bring the right one.


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> We had one lasting nearly an hour during the big storms this last winter, and have a had a few of just seconds in the last year.



Thats what happens down that cardiff area….too many on the grid lol


----------



## Buck (1 Aug 2022)

How are those looking at getting solar quotes finding the suppliers willingness to discuss options / quote ?

I found one who gets really good reviews and recommended but he is looking at May next year so he’s said that he Is not even quoting new jobs u til he can clear some of the backlog which is fair enough. 
Another used my address and looked on Google maps then said that my roof wasnt big enough (it certainly is!). A retrospective look at on line reviews showed it wasa lucky escape ! 

i have one other that I rang today and they are due to be calling me back but not heard from them as yet.
PS Im based in West Yorkshire


PS any recommendations for goodwebsites to research or forums. @jowwy did you say tou were on a solar forum(s)?

thanks


----------



## jowwy (1 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> How are those looking at getting solar quotes finding the suppliers willingness to discuss options / quote ?
> 
> I found one who gets really good reviews and recommended but he is looking at May next year so he’s said that he Is not even quoting new jobs u til he can clear some of the backlog which is fair enough.
> Another used my address and looked on Google maps then said that my roof wasnt big enough (it certainly is!). A retrospective look at on line reviews showed it wasa lucky escape !
> ...



The forum i am on is DIY off grid builds…..they have some questions on residential solar, but mainly offgrid stuff.

im on there cause i have put my home office offgrid and am doing an offgrid build on the man cave.


----------



## Buck (1 Aug 2022)

Thanks @jowwy I'll take a look - I'm sure I'll learn. thing or two still !


----------



## Phaeton (2 Aug 2022)

Latest quote came in £11,940, very sparse on details, nothing on warranty etc. but they did list the panels, inverter & batteries,

12 x PLM-400OM2B-66 400 Watt Panels (Perlight Solar)
1 x H1-3.7 (Fox Ess)
2 x HV2600 (Fox Ess)
Quick look online panels £200ea, inverter £1300ea, batteries £1000ea, chuck in another £1500 for misc/scaffold thats £7200 what makes up the other £4700?


----------



## jowwy (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Latest quote came in £11,940, very sparse on details, nothing on warranty etc. but they did list the panels, inverter & batteries,
> 
> 12 x PLM-400OM2B-66 400 Watt Panels (Perlight Solar)
> 1 x H1-3.7 (Fox Ess)
> ...



VAT will be a big chunk wouldnt it or is that not chargable??? then you have labour, maybe certs and applications cost to DNO, im just guessing tbh

and at least its a hybrid inverter.


----------



## kipster (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Latest quote came in £11,940, very sparse on details, nothing on warranty etc. but they did list the panels, inverter & batteries,
> 
> 12 x PLM-400OM2B-66 400 Watt Panels (Perlight Solar)
> 1 x H1-3.7 (Fox Ess)
> ...



Labour, warranties, certs, insurance, travel, roof rails, mounting brackets, wiring, garage board if you don't have enough spare in your consumer board etc... Etc... 

Just on the labour bit. I had 3 roofers spend 5 hours installing the rails and panels, two electricians with a total of about 9 hours and another roofer 2 hours to install the bird proofing.


----------



## CXRAndy (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Latest quote came in £11,940, very sparse on details, nothing on warranty etc. but they did list the panels, inverter & batteries,
> 
> 12 x PLM-400OM2B-66 400 Watt Panels (Perlight Solar)
> 1 x H1-3.7 (Fox Ess)
> ...



Labour isn't cheap now. My neighbour who is a joiner by trade charges £250 a day in rural Lincolnshire. He has so much work he can't keep up


----------



## Phaeton (2 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> VAT will be a big chunk wouldnt it or is that not chargable??? then you have labour, maybe certs and applications cost to DNO, im just guessing tbh
> 
> and at least its a hybrid inverter.


VAT shouldn't be applicable as it's supposed to be zero rated on it all if all done at the same time. Although I suspect some installer are still charging it, just hidden elsewhere


kipster said:


> Labour, warranties, certs, insurance, travel, roof rails, mounting brackets, wiring, garage board if you don't have enough spare in your consumer board etc... Etc...
> 
> Just on the labour bit. I had 3 roofers spend 5 hours installing the rails and panels, two electricians with a total of about 9 hours and another roofer 2 hours to install the bird proofing.


I added an additional £1500 for mounting sundry items such as mounting, breakers etc. total hours 26, even at £50 an hour (sorry but that's excessive) it's only £2300 which still leave £2-2.5K unaccounted for. Yes there is reserve for warranty etc. 


CXRAndy said:


> Labour isn't cheap now. My neighbour who is a joiner by trade charges £250 a day in rural Lincolnshire. He has so much work he can't keep up


Yep, maybe I just live in the past, I have no objection to anybody making a good living & making a decent margin, but I just feel this is excessive, but it seems to be the climate we are currently in.


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> VAT shouldn't be applicable as it's supposed to be zero rated on it all if all done at the same time. Although I suspect some installer are still charging it, just hidden elsewhere
> 
> I added an additional £1500 for mounting sundry items such as mounting, breakers etc. total hours 26, even at £50 an hour (sorry but that's excessive) it's only £2300 which still leave £2-2.5K unaccounted for. Yes there is reserve for warranty etc.
> 
> Yep, maybe I just live in the past, I have no objection to anybody making a good living & making a decent margin, but I just feel this is excessive, but it seems to be the climate we are currently in.



If you think £50 an hour for labour is excessive, you definitely live in the past. Very few skilled tradesmen will be charging that little nowadays.


----------



## jowwy (2 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> If you think £50 an hour for labour is excessive, you definitely live in the past. Very few skilled tradesmen will be charging that little nowadays.



agreed i paid £860 last May to have a porch roof re-tilled........material was £250, two roofers took two hours for the the other £610

no scaffold. just two ladders either side of the porch.


----------



## jowwy (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> VAT shouldn't be applicable as it's supposed to be zero rated on it all if all done at the same time. Although I suspect some installer are still charging it, just hidden elsewhere
> 
> I added an additional £1500 for mounting sundry items such as mounting, breakers etc. total hours 26, even at £50 an hour (sorry but that's excessive) it's only *£2300* which still leave £2-2.5K unaccounted for. Yes there is reserve for warranty etc.
> 
> Yep, maybe I just live in the past, I have no objection to anybody making a good living & making a decent margin, but I just feel this is excessive, but it seems to be the climate we are currently in.


26 x £50 = £1300......

but you can be paying £150 an hour for a roofer and even more for a leccy , so thats 26 x £150 = £3900


----------



## Buck (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Latest quote came in £11,940, very sparse on details, nothing on warranty etc. but they did list the panels, inverter & batteries,
> 
> 12 x PLM-400OM2B-66 400 Watt Panels (Perlight Solar)
> 1 x H1-3.7 (Fox Ess)
> ...



Simply put, he may be profiteering - we all have to remember that the demand is high so that is pushing prices up not down. As above, my preferred installer is booked for the next 10 months so why would they charge less?

Having said that, with all professional installs, you are paying them for their experience, qualifications and knowledge. This will include the electrical aspects which are not a DIY job and also the commissioning of the system with whatever paperwork is needed. Some manufacturers will also insist on "professional install" to validate warranty so that is a consideration.

My electrician charges me £30+VAT per hour - he is excellent and his RPH reflects not just his labour cost but workmanship plus insurances, transport, accountancy and all other business running costs so yes, face value is higher but it's reflective of their running costs and for them to earn reasonable living.

When it comes to components, it's not unusual for any professional installer to add a 10% mark up on the items sold, if not more. 

I'm guessing but let's say it takes half a day to design the install and order the relevant kit plus two men, two days to put up the solar panels then that's £1,300 then your electrician at say £700 including materials etc. then the headline profit is not quite as big.

The only thing you can do is discuss with them to get a better breakdown of costs?


----------



## Buck (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> VAT shouldn't be applicable as it's supposed to be zero rated on it all if all done at the same time. Although I suspect some installer are still charging it, just hidden elsewhere



If I understand the VAT changes, the panels and install are 0% VAT but the batteries are still 20% VAT


----------



## jowwy (2 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> If I understand the VAT changes, the panels and install are 0% VAT but the *batteries are still 20% VAT*



i dont think it is if you have it all installed at the same time......retrofit after is 20%, as i read it


----------



## Phaeton (2 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> If I understand the VAT changes, the panels and install are 0% VAT but the batteries are still 20% VAT





jowwy said:


> i dont think it is if you have it all installed at the same time......retrofit after is 20%, is i read it


I'm with @jowwy on this one, if it's all done on the one invoice it should be 0% VAT on the whole thing


----------



## Buck (2 Aug 2022)

^ you're probably right! 20% must be if supplied after the main install ?


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> If I understand the VAT changes, the panels and install are 0% VAT but the batteries are still 20% VAT



Batteries are still 0% if installed as part of the initial package.

20% if you add them later - though the actual install may be later, provided they are ordered at the same time.


----------



## Phaeton (2 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> ^ you're probably right! 20% must be if supplied after the main install ?



How they deal with an install of panels, inverter etc. then the battery 3 months later when it comes into stock I'm not 100% sure.

Edit:- @Alex321 Beat me to it with the answer


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> How they deal with an install of panels, inverter etc. then the battery 3 months later when it comes into stock I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> Edit:- @Alex321 Beat me to it with the answer



Yeah, we are in the middle of that situation (but 6 months rather than 3 - their latest estimate is September!).


----------



## Buck (2 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Yeah, we are in the middle of that situation (but 6 months rather than 3 - their latest estimate is September!).



Alex,

Sorry if I've missed it earlier in the thread - what system is your install inc the pending batteries? Thanks


----------



## Arjimlad (2 Aug 2022)

We have just had 15 x 370 JA Solar panels on the roof, with a Huawei 5kW Storage inverter and Huawei 5kW battery system. 

So far so good.. I'm very impressed with the monitoring app, which shows almost real-time what the system is doing. I can see when someone switches the shower or kettle on from anywhere! 

Yesterday we had a sunny day and generated 29.1kWh of which 30.48kWh was exported to the grid, and we were 97.39% self sufficient for electricity in those 24 hours. 

Sadly we missed the sunniest part of July with it going live on 21st July. For the part of July when it was connected it generated 89% of our home electricity consumption. 

I just need a bit of extra info to register for the SEG payments now. We are with E-on on a fixed rate which doesn't expire until next year, so our supply has to stay with them. It seems we can seek the highest paying SEG company though, so we can sell to another company. 

Most of them pay 3p/kWh unless you also buy your energy from them. We used a local independent company (GasWorld) which has been trading since 1981, and the installer lives on our street.


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> Alex,
> 
> Sorry if I've missed it earlier in the thread - what system is your install inc the pending batteries? Thanks



Installer was Tile Energy.

Panels are Qcells 390W (26 of them) [EDIT] - From Hanwha[/EDIT]
Inverter and other stuff is all Solaredge. Inverter is 10Kw plus power optimiser and modbus power management package.
Batteries will be LG 16KWH RESU


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> Most of them pay 3p/kWh unless you also buy your energy from them. We used a local independent company (GasWorld) which has been trading since 1981, and the installer lives on our street.



Octopus will pay 4.1p for those who don't have an incoming account with them.


----------



## Arjimlad (2 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Octopus will pay 4.1p for those who don't have an incoming account with them.



Thank you


----------



## jowwy (2 Aug 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> We have just had 15 x 370 JA Solar panels on the roof, with a Huawei 5kW Storage inverter and Huawei 5kW battery system.
> 
> So far so good.. I'm very impressed with the monitoring app, which shows almost real-time what the system is doing. I can see when someone switches the shower or kettle on from anywhere!
> 
> ...



can i ask what was the system cost??


----------



## Arjimlad (2 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> can i ask what was the system cost??



About £10k.


----------



## Phaeton (2 Aug 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> About £10k.



That's cheap by today's standard.


----------



## Arjimlad (2 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> That's cheap by today's standard.



I suspect my neighbour was generous. He did it all himself, the amount of work involved was more than I could have anticipated. A lovely clean job done though. Really impressed. 

The next install he does on our road will be in-roof though, he said. He's left space for a car charger when we need one, and the battery is modular so we can pop another one on if we choose. 

Huawei's Fusion Solar app is superb.


----------



## CXRAndy (2 Aug 2022)

I'd try and not sell electric back to grid. Until folk get parity for electric generation rates. Keep it and use it for what ever you can plug in


----------



## Arjimlad (2 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I'd try and not sell electric back to grid. Until folk get parity for electric generation rates. Keep it and use it for what ever you can plug in



It's producing plenty of surplus, even with our battery. Maybe worth getting that second one.


----------



## MrGrumpy (2 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I'd try and not sell electric back to grid. Until folk get parity for electric generation rates. Keep it and use it for what ever you can plug in



Get that hot tub fired up !!


----------



## CXRAndy (2 Aug 2022)

Work out how much electric you're exporting to the grid and multiply those kWatts by what the electric company is charging you to supply peak rate. Then how quickly you could buy another battery 👍


----------



## Alex321 (2 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I'd try and not sell electric back to grid. Until folk get parity for electric generation rates. Keep it and use it for what ever you can plug in



I'd rather get paid whatever I can than use it pointlessly.

Anything I can reasonably use I certainly will, but I see no point in using it up just for the sake of it.

Because their import rates are on the high side, I have been waiting to switch to Octopus until we get the battery installed, but when we do, their agile export rates are pretty good, and at times are as high as the import rates.


----------



## CXRAndy (3 Aug 2022)

I dont disagree with getting paid, but not peanuts for peak day time electric. 
At least pay a fair going rate then people wont feel ripped off. 

When electricity suppliers are charging 20p and more for peak kW/hr and paying 3-5p then that is taking the mick. Octopus do pay more and their agile commercial tariffs offer a better return.


----------



## jowwy (3 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I dont disagree with getting paid, but not peanuts for peak day time electric.
> *At least pay a fair going rate then people wont feel ripped off*.
> 
> When electricity suppliers are charging 20p and more for peak kW/hr and paying 3-5p then that is taking the mick. Octopus do pay more and their agile commercial tariffs offer a better return.



exactly how i feel about the situation......we are investing in green energy at our own homes, feeding it back to the grid and get electric companies give back nothing for what is to them, free energy.


----------



## Phaeton (3 Aug 2022)

Well I think I have a winner, I have another company coming at 08:30 so unless they can do something 'extra' I have a mind to go with this quote.

4kw Solar Panel System (10 panels)
5.2kw Giv Energy Battery
Giv Energy Inverter

£9,746 there is an option to go to 450W panels for an extra £50 each

All the ones who have used Google Earth say they can supply 12 panels, all those who have visited say 9 or 10 panels, I still think it's expensive, that the installation costs are too high & I hate having trades in/on my house it's a trust issue I know.

I'm sure I could do it, but this way hope it gets done 100% right


----------



## jowwy (3 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Well I think I have a winner, I have another company coming at 08:30 so unless they can do something 'extra' I have a mind to go with this quote.
> 
> 4kw Solar Panel System (10 panels)
> 5.2kw Giv Energy Battery
> ...



is it a hybrid inverter?? or dont you want grid back-up??


----------



## Phaeton (3 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> is it a hybrid inverter?? or dont you want grid back-up??



Yes it is a Hybrid inverter, you were also right the other day & I apologise, the new range, do maintain internal power in the event of a power cut.


----------



## jowwy (3 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Yes it is a Hybrid inverter, you were also right the other day & I apologise, the new range, do maintain internal power in the event of a power cut.



technology chages all the time, i did lots of research on solar forums, before i even attempted my own set-ups just for the shed and office.

But residential solar is different, as it needs connecting to the grid for the feeback tarrifs etc etc.

But no probs and apology accepted......i know ive caused issues within the forum, but i was genuinly trying to help and i do try and stay away from situations on this site that may drag me into arguments.


----------



## CXRAndy (3 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Well I think I have a winner, I have another company coming at 08:30 so unless they can do something 'extra' I have a mind to go with this quote.
> 
> 4kw Solar Panel System (10 panels)
> 5.2kw Giv Energy Battery
> ...



Work out the Watts per metre square. Sometimes you can squeeze an extra panel or two and get more solar from the roof by using slightly smaller but higher output (m2) panels


----------



## Phaeton (3 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Work out the Watts per metre square. Sometimes you can squeeze an extra panel or two and get more solar from the roof by using slightly smaller but higher output (m2) panels



The guy who came around this morning, is coming back later to physically go up onto the roof & get a proper measurement which is the first to do so. In all likely event if I go with them he will be the installer as well, or at least commission it, it's not just about cost, but I get a better feeling about this firm.


----------



## MrGrumpy (3 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Well I think I have a winner, I have another company coming at 08:30 so unless they can do something 'extra' I have a mind to go with this quote.
> 
> 4kw Solar Panel System (10 panels)
> 5.2kw Giv Energy Battery
> ...



Trades give me the fear of I’m honest . Always have done but I’m learning to trust more . Still been bitten though !


----------



## jowwy (3 Aug 2022)

Just had a quote for a system, double the size that i asked for….some companies are just in it for sale


----------



## Phaeton (3 Aug 2022)

Well I've clicked the button to accept a quote, from https://www.wrightrenewableheating.co.uk local company less 3 miles away, only ones who took the time to come back with a set of ladders to actually go up onto the roof. 

Quoted a 5.2kWh battery but when he looked at stock they only have 6.2kWh in stock so upgraded FOC guy who quoted said he'd come do the actual instal.







Lot of money hope it it lives up to expectations & they don't discount PV installs next year in the budget


----------



## jowwy (3 Aug 2022)

Have a look at this quote……..its been sent to me by mistake i think, cause the name and address is wrong and they have quoted for double the size i asked for. The price for battery and invertor is over 2k more than i could buy it off the shelf

hes quoted for panels and relevant cable @£355 each………you can buy them for £149.59

Battery is 2.1k off the shelf.
invertor is 1.3k off the shelf.


----------



## kipster (3 Aug 2022)

.


Phaeton said:


> Well I've clicked the button to accept a quote, from https://www.wrightrenewableheating.co.uk local company less 3 miles away, only ones who took the time to come back with a set of ladders to actually go up onto the roof.
> 
> Quoted a 5.2kWh battery but when he looked at stock they only have 6.2kWh in stock so upgraded FOC guy who quoted said he'd come do the actual instal.
> 
> ...



That looks a good price to me.


----------



## CXRAndy (3 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Well I've clicked the button to accept a quote, from https://www.wrightrenewableheating.co.uk local company less 3 miles away, only ones who took the time to come back with a set of ladders to actually go up onto the roof.
> 
> Quoted a 5.2kWh battery but when he looked at stock they only have 6.2kWh in stock so upgraded FOC guy who quoted said he'd come do the actual instal.
> 
> ...



What's the warranty on panels, inverter and ancillaries?


----------



## Milkfloat (4 Aug 2022)

I just got my first quote. This is for a system split on an East-West Roof. He said the battery would be 6.5 kwh but the quote does not specify that, so I need to check with them. I am thinking of adding a couple of extra panels (£350 each installed).

I just want to check with people, he said that a huge benefit is moving to Octopus and charging the battery overnight from the grid at 5p per unit. Does this seem right to you and do you think if the whole country starts switching to renewables that the tariff will still be available in 5 to 10 years time?


----------



## jowwy (4 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I just got my first quote. This is for a system split on an East-West Roof. He said the battery would be 6.5 kwh but the quote does not specify that, so I need to check with them. I am thinking of adding a couple of extra panels (£350 each installed).
> 
> I just want to check with people, he said that a huge benefit is moving to Octopus and charging the battery overnight from the grid at 5p per unit. Does this seem right to you and do you think if the whole country starts switching to renewables that the tariff will still be available in 5 to 10 years time?
> 
> View attachment 655675



can i ask what the first line of the quote is - its supply of system @ 4.32kwp........2.4k

but then line 3 - says 12 panels @350 each - 4.2k in total - also those panels are £96 each...........whats the other £254 for in the purchase cost??

https://www.renugen.co.uk/suntech-360w-mono-all-black-panel/


----------



## Milkfloat (4 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> can i ask what the first line of the quote is - its supply of system @ 4.32kwp........2.4k
> 
> but then line 3 - says 12 panels @350 each - 4.2k in total - also those panels are £96 each...........whats the other £254 for in the purchase cost??
> 
> https://www.renugen.co.uk/suntech-360w-mono-all-black-panel/



That was my thoughts too. Being double charged for installation. I think a lot of it is because supply is so limited at the moment and the companies can get away with it, from the quotes seen here my quote is not outrageous but when you look at the price for the parts it seems we are all being ripped off. There is a 25 year minimum production warranty included where they monitor the system and if the efficiency drops either replace parts or pay your electricity bill, however, will they/their insurance company even exist in 25 years times? The problem is, there is no way I can self supply/install as nobody will certify the system.


----------



## jowwy (4 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> That was my thoughts too. Being double charged for installation. I think a lot of it is because supply is so limited at the moment and the companies can get away with it, from the quotes seen here my quote is not outrageous but when you look at the price for the parts it seems we are all being ripped off. There is a 25 year minimum production warranty included where they monitor the system and of the efficiency drops either replace parts or pay your electricity bill, however, will they/their insurance company even exist in 25 years times? The problem is, there is no way I can self supply/install as nobody will certify the system.



yeh i do get that....but the mark up on those panels, inverter and battery is huge and it does look like a double install charge


----------



## Milkfloat (4 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> yeh i do get that....but the mark up on those panels, inverter and battery is huge and it does look like a double install charge



If only the other 10 companies I have contacted would get back to me


----------



## jowwy (4 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> If only the other 10 companies I have contacted wold get back to me



im the same here in S.Wales...very minimal companies around


----------



## Phaeton (4 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> That was my thoughts too. Being double charged for installation. I think a lot of it is because supply is so limited at the moment and the companies can get away with it, from the quotes seen here my quote is not outrageous but when you look at the price for the parts it seems we are all being ripped off. There is a 25 year minimum production warranty included where they monitor the system and if the efficiency drops either replace parts or pay your electricity bill, however, will they/their insurance company even exist in 25 years times? The problem is, there is no way I can self supply/install as nobody will certify the system.





Spoiler



SolarFast


----------



## Phaeton (4 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> im the same here in S.Wales...very minimal companies around



I can forward you the details of the company I am going to use, he told me they have a 10 installs a week contract in South Wales, I think it's on new builds


----------



## jowwy (4 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I can forward you the details of the company I am going to use, he told me they have a 10 installs a week contract in South Wales, I think it's on new builds



Send them to me and see what he comes up with.

Cheers


----------



## Phaeton (4 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Send them to me and see what he comes up with.
> 
> Cheers



Won't let me,







https://www.wrightrenewableheating.co.uk/
Glen Randell
glenn@wrightrenewableheating.co.uk
+441909 813456


----------



## MrGrumpy (4 Aug 2022)

Well had my visit tonight , a wee bit underwhelmed actually . Guy was not convinced about my roof . Could have shadows at some point in the day. I’ll need to check it out myself maybe over the weekend . Sunny day preferable . Only quoted for 5kw and 6.5kw battery . The numbers to me take a long time to stack up. After the outlay it could take 15yrs to be in the black. Seems a hell of long time . I’ve got another company coming in a couple of weeks so I will compare. Price wise a wee bit more than the guy that emailed only. However still north of £12k ! Only upside is the interest free loan for £11k of that via Sco Gov. However I get the feeling your being charged a tad more than it should be ?!


----------



## jowwy (4 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Well had my visit tonight , a wee bit underwhelmed actually . Guy was not convinced about my roof . Could have shadows at some point in the day. I’ll need to check it out myself maybe over the weekend . Sunny day preferable . Only quoted for 5kw and 6.5kw battery . The numbers to me take a long time to stack up. After the outlay it could take 15yrs to be in the black. Seems a hell of long time . I’ve got another company coming in a couple of weeks so I will compare. Price wise a wee bit more than the guy that emailed only. However still north of £12k ! Only upside is the interest free loan for £11k of that via Sco Gov. However I get the feeling your being charged a tad more than it should be ?!



I said the same earlier about double fitting charges and mark ups on products


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Aug 2022)

If you have a bit of shadowing, ensure that the panel are individually wired and not in series. Then if one panel becomes shadowed, only that panel drops off in output. Series wired panels, if one panel shadows the whole set of panels reduce output. 

The use of micro invertors on each panel or optimisers help mitigate shadowing.


----------



## Fab Foodie (5 Aug 2022)

Dears
Could somebody explain this whole Solar operation gently to me?
Just moved into a new-build with 4kW of solar panel installed. No batteries.
Right now we are with British Gas and need to speak to the Solar feed-in team - and I know bugger-all about how this works. Also I believe there are also options with Octopus.

Is there an idiots guide?
What do I need to know/consider.
Is a battery a good investment and what size?
Is there an 'APP' that can monitor what's going-on?

Lecktrickery, is a foreign country to me, but I want to maximise the benefit of what we have.....

Cheers
FF


----------



## kipster (5 Aug 2022)

Fab Foodie said:


> Dears
> Could somebody explain this whole Solar operation gently to me?
> Just moved into a new-build with 4kW of solar panel installed. No batteries.
> Right now we are with British Gas and need to speak to the Solar feed-in team - and I know bugger-all about how this works. Also I believe there are also options with Octopus.
> ...



I would say that batteries are a good investment as they allow you to use stored excess solar overnight. However you may need to change your inverter (£1000+) to a hybrid inverter and spend a few thousand on batteries. If you are planning to stay in the property a while it might pay off.

Regarding SEG you don't need to so with who supplies your electric, you can go with whoever you want. Octopus seem to be about the highest paying.

Regarding apps, what is your current inverter? There is bound to be an app for monitoring it.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Aug 2022)

Panels capture the light in DC format, the inverter converts it to AC current so you can use it around your house, currently if you panels are generating 4kW & you are using more than that, then the extra is pulled in from the grid. If you're not using the 4KW then you will be exporting the extra out to the grid, but remember you sell/export out at 3-7p, but buy/import in at 22-37p. (This is the principle but it doesn't necessarily work quite like that for safety reasons)

Logically because of the price difference you want to be using all that you produce & not send any out to the grid, which is where the batteries come in. Any excess you produce during the day will charge up the batteries rather than exporting it & allow you to use it later in the evening etc.

You can also go one further with Octopus (there might be others) that offer hours overnight at a reduced rate, you can use that rate to also charge your batteries to use later, or you can use the washing machine, dishwater etc on the cheap rate.

Unfortunately your builders are doing what all property developers seem to do, the absolute minimum to comply with the regulations, rather than giving to a system which will benefit you, hopefully your inverter is one that can have batteries added.

I would be surprised if the inverter doesn't have an App, but you may have to buy a dongle to go into it so you can talk to it.


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Aug 2022)

My son is getting a new build, the developer has restrictive covenants prohibiting adding items to the outside of the property for 10 years. We requested permission as part of purchase to add solar. I think he should be able to install between 4-6kW. We are getting the additional wiring installed at first fix, plus aircon power to certain walls. A few hundred quid now on 6-10mm cabling will be a huge benefit come installation


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> If you have a bit of shadowing, ensure that the panel are individually wired and not in series. Then if one panel becomes shadowed, only that panel drops off in output. Series wired panels, if one panel shadows the whole set of panels reduce output.
> 
> The use of micro invertors on each panel or optimisers help mitigate shadowing.



That’s handy to know , I’ll keep a note . My mate at work has that on his . Is it not standard fit these days ?


----------



## CXRAndy (6 Aug 2022)

Micro inverter and optimisers are optional methods of connecting a solar array. A decent installer should beware of these methods to reduce solar loss due to shadowing. There are software packages that show shadowing for virtually any site, if it's been captured by Google or other aerial photography. The worst shadowing will be in the winter months. But the software can show any time of the year if required.

Vast majority of installations don't need any other equipment and are directly connected to the inverter. Bread n butter, this is where you see average installers versus professional who will do a thorough assessment of each site. Beware


----------



## MrGrumpy (12 Aug 2022)

Looking at my roof , during spring/ summer if I could max out panels on front and back I’d be generating a load of leccy !! Back of house is more west , Sun comes right round . Will ask the question of what’s the max I can stick up !


----------



## Milkfloat (16 Aug 2022)

I have just had another quote 6.4 kW panels (16 x 400) with 6.4kW batteries. Panels are DMEGC, batteries Greenlinx and Invertor Lux 3600 Hybrid. This is £13.1K fitted. I think the output matches our need but I don't find many reviews on the hardware. Does anyone have any input?


----------



## jowwy (16 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I have just had another quote 6.4 kW panels (16 x 400) with 6.4kW batteries. Panels are DMEGC, batteries Greenlinx and Invertor Lux 3600 Hybrid. This is £13.1K fitted. I think the output matches our need but I don't find many reviews on the hardware. Does anyone have any input?



This LUX 3.6 Hybrid unit is *a very powerful G98 solar inverter with integrated battery storage*. Although it is 16 Amps limited it is capable of handling up to 7kw of PV input. This means that although the export is limited to 3.68kw, any additional generation can be stored in the batteries.






GreenLinx Is The UK’s First Battery To Benefit From High Power Density Lithium Cells. The Highest Charge & Discharge Rates From A Single Battery With 100% DOD!​
3.2k Wh Capacity
100% DOD (Depth of Discharge)
Integrated Wi-Fi Future Proof With Firmware Updates
Low Temperature operating performance
Next Generation HPD High Power Density Lithium
10 Year Warranty
Modular 1 to 8 batteries in parallel connection


----------



## Milkfloat (18 Aug 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I have just had another quote 6.4 kW panels (16 x 400) with 6.4kW batteries. Panels are DMEGC, batteries Greenlinx and Invertor Lux 3600 Hybrid. This is £13.1K fitted. I think the output matches our need but I don't find many reviews on the hardware. Does anyone have any input?



After securing another discount I have just signed up for this - £12.5K outlay predicted at current prices to payback in 9 years. Who knows what the energy market will look like in the next few years but I am taking the gamble to jump in with both feet.


----------



## jowwy (18 Aug 2022)

I got Ese Group coming to see me on Monday for a look at the roof and a free survey and quote


----------



## Buck (18 Aug 2022)

From the same company? What discount did they offer if I can ask? 

I’ve got a couple of quotes in myself but won’t be able to discuss this with the suppliers until next week. 

8.3kW single array with 9.5kW battery for approx £13,400 or

9.96kW over 2 arrays with 9.5kW battery coming in around £14,800 inc optimisers as two separate arrays. 

Includes 415w PV panels. Givenergy Hybrid inverter, MyEddi immersion divert and all installed with 25yr guarantee. 

Approx payback is 8-9 years. 

On the surface and comparing to another company I have had a quote from this seems better value and install in next 12 weeks.


----------



## Milkfloat (18 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> From the same company? What discount did they offer if I can ask?
> 
> I’ve got a couple of quotes in myself but won’t be able to discuss this with the suppliers until next week.
> 
> ...



Yes, the same company, came down from an initial ridiculous quote of over 15K. Assuming they are Tier 1 panels I think yours is better value than mine.


----------



## Buck (18 Aug 2022)

I think we’re all learning and sometimes it’s apples vs pears!


----------



## Phaeton (18 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> Includes 415w PV panels. Givenergy Hybrid inverter, MyEddi immersion divert and all installed with 25yr guarantee.



Solarfast?


----------



## Buck (18 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Solarfast?



No. This one‘s First4Solar.


----------



## Phaeton (19 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> No. This one‘s First4Solar.



If the 25 year guarantee is important to you I'd ask to see the t&c's as I was not convinced Solarfast were being truthful, they also claimed they'd factored in the panels needing to be replaced between 15 - 20 years which they would do under warranty, maybe the cynic in me but it sounded like snake oil


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> If the 25 year guarantee is important to you I'd ask to see the t&c's as I was not convinced Solarfast were being truthful, they also claimed they'd factored in the panels needing to be replaced between 15 - 20 years which they would do under warranty, maybe the cynic in me but it sounded like snake oil



I was under the impression that SolarFast was a 10 year warranty. The spec of their DMEGC panels say 12 year manufacturers warranty and 25 year warranty of 84.8% power. I am not sure what happens if it fails on year 13 as it is out of manufacturers warranty but inside the 84.8% output warranty.


----------



## classic33 (19 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> No. This one‘s First4Solar.


Check the name on the paperwork. 
First4Solar are now Tanrec, based at
Vicarage Chambers, 
9 Park Square East, 
Leeds, 
LS1 2LH


----------



## ClichéGuevara (19 Aug 2022)

The Guardian view on rare earths: mining them can’t cost the Earth


"Climate solutions – such as solar energy, wind energy and electric vehicles – depend on rare earth elements, which have unique magnetic and luminescent properties. The trouble is that their production and disposal is environmentally destructive. It is worrying, therefore, that the European Union this week said that it wants lower regulatory barriers to mining raw materials needed for a green transition.

To get to net zero, Europe will require up to 26 times the amount of rare earth metals in 2050 compared with today.

Mining for rare earth minerals generates large volumes of toxic and radioactive material.

Over the next three decades “we will need to mine more mineral ores than humans have extracted over the last 70,000 years”."


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...pc=U531&cvid=f905f20fb7914fed8784affebb74af76


----------



## Buck (19 Aug 2022)

classic33 said:


> Check the name on the paperwork.
> First4Solar are now Tanrec, based at
> Vicarage Chambers,
> 9 Park Square East,
> ...




Yes, same company. All info is coming from Tanrec.


----------



## jowwy (22 Aug 2022)

Just had ESE Group come and do a survey.....will be a 4kw system. So just wait fror the quote now. They use LUX hardware


----------



## Phaeton (22 Aug 2022)

Currently 2 guys on the roof & 1 guy in the cupboard under the stairs fitting all the kit, they couldn't get what they spec'd so have upgraded the inverter & battery


----------



## jowwy (22 Aug 2022)

Just had my Quote through in two options - 

*Option 1*

8 x 400w Longi Panels all Black
1 x 3.6kw Lux Power LXP 3.6 Hybrid Invertor
All fixtures and fittings 

£8445

*Option 2*

8 x 400w Longi Panels all Black
1 x 3.6kw Lux Power LXP 3.6 Hybrid Invertor
3.2kwh Battery 
All fixtures and fittings 

£9405

So they will only charge me an extra 1K to supply the 3.2kwh battery


----------



## CXRAndy (22 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Just had my Quote through in two options -
> 
> *Option 1*
> 
> ...



If you're not too precious about all black panels, go with plain aluminium frame. The cooler the panel stays the higher output. All black just increases the heat build up


----------



## jowwy (22 Aug 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> If you're not too precious about all black panels, go with plain aluminium frame. The cooler the panel stays the higher output. All black just increases the heat build up



Thats all they offer from ese group, all black panels


----------



## jowwy (24 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Currently 2 guys on the roof & 1 guy in the cupboard under the stairs fitting all the kit, they couldn't get what they spec'd so have upgraded the inverter & battery



Is it all done and hows it working???


----------



## Phaeton (24 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Is it all done and hows it working???



Yes & no, it's on the roof & producing but there's an issue with the battery charger it's got an error, they're waiting for Growatt to come back to them to advise what the problem is.

I had to leave them to it Monday as I had to got o the airport, so they've not gone through all the stuff yet, but I hooked the dongle up to the WiFi yesterday at 11:50 & it produced 17.5kWh & today so far 13.6kWh it was quite funny in a very childish way to watch the meter spin backwards yesterday.






















The aeiel you see at the far end of the roof has now been taken down as the top panel already had bird poop on it.


----------



## jowwy (24 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Yes & no, it's on the roof & producing but there's an issue with the battery charger it's got an error, they're waiting for Growatt to come back to them to advise what the problem is.
> 
> I had to leave them to it Monday as I had to got o the airport, so they've not gone through all the stuff yet, but I hooked the dongle up to the WiFi yesterday at 11:50 & it produced 17.5kWh & today so far 13.6kWh it was quite funny in a very childish way to watch the meter spin backwards yesterday.
> 
> ...



Ah its a shame they havent been able to get it all done for you. Fingers crossed it will get sorted.


----------



## jowwy (26 Aug 2022)

Ive recieved a 2nd quote for fitting and a battery

10 x 405w panels
hybrid inverter
fitting, scaffold, commissioning, 10yr warranty etc etc

£5495

for an additional 5.2kw Battery

£8495

Whick makes my first quote look rather silly, as its all the same equipment, but the first quote is for less panels and a smaller battery. I think some of these companies think they are dealing with stupid people who dont shop around.


----------



## Alex321 (26 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Ive recieved a 2nd quote for fitting and a battery
> 
> 10 x 405w panels
> hybrid inverter
> ...



That battery seems expensive. We were quoted about the same for a 16Kwh battery.


----------



## jowwy (26 Aug 2022)

Alex321 said:


> That battery seems expensive. We were quoted about the same for a 16Kwh battery.



3k for a battery???…..its £8495 in total…panels, fitting and battery


----------



## Buck (26 Aug 2022)

A GivEnergy 9.5kWh battery in comparison is around £3,200 whereas their 5.2kWh is around £1,800


----------



## MrGrumpy (26 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Ive recieved a 2nd quote for fitting and a battery
> 
> 10 x 405w panels
> hybrid inverter
> ...



That’s way cheaper than what I’m getting quoted for up here !


----------



## Alex321 (26 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> 3k for a battery???…..its £8495 in total…panels, fitting and battery



Ah. I misunderstood your post, I thought the £8495 was the price of just the battery.


----------



## Phaeton (27 Aug 2022)

jowwy said:


> Ive recieved a 2nd quote for fitting and a battery
> 
> 10 x 405w panels
> hybrid inverter
> ...



That is incredibly cheap


----------



## MrGrumpy (27 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> That is incredibly cheap



Yep I’d say !! Add £4k onto that for our quotes


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (27 Aug 2022)

We had ours done about a month ago - but they are having trouble getting the batteries
They are being reasonable and have not charged us for them until they can fit them

Is anyone else having trouble getting hold of batteries?


----------



## Buck (27 Aug 2022)

They are definitely in limited supply. 

Our order for a GivEnergy 9.5kWh “should” be installed at the same time as the panels in October/November

I was told yesterday that if I wanted a Tesla Powerwall we would be looking at middle of 2023!


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (27 Aug 2022)

We were told 'hopefully by the end of August"
the current tale (probably true) that they are starting to get some through now but not as many as expected
but they are installing them in the order that they installed the panels - which is fair

apparently anoth container is due about now - but they don;t know exactly how many are on it - or more likely how many are allocated to them


----------



## Buck (27 Aug 2022)

I agree. Seems a fair way of allocating stock. 

I am sure stock will improve but they are dealing with the backlog and increased demand so it’s a tough supply situation. 

I’m half expecting my battery install to be delayed but we will see…


----------



## Phaeton (27 Aug 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Is anyone else having trouble getting hold of batteries?



Yes lots of people, some people are holding out to get the batteries they ordered, others are accepting whatever their supplier can get them, we were quoted a 5.3kWh (I think) but they fitted a 6.2kWh one as the container with the 6.2's arrived before the 5.3's.

Our system was installed last Monday, still not up & running correctly as there is an issue with one of the units, however for those that have a system installed we have a unit in the cupboard with a LED screen & a occasional red flashing LED, what does the flash indicate?


----------



## Buck (27 Aug 2022)

Thats your generation meter that will show whether you are importing from the grid or exporting to the grid and if so how many kWh. That’ll show on the LED display.

Did the installer not leave any documentation?

I would think that the LED flashing is just a confirmation of connection But it may flash different colours depending upon import or export.


----------



## Phaeton (27 Aug 2022)

Buck said:


> Thats your generation meter that will show whether you are importing from the grid or exporting to the grid and if so how many kWh. That’ll show on the LED display.
> 
> Did the installer not leave any documentation?
> 
> I would think that the LED flashing is just a confirmation of connection But it may flash different colours depending upon import or export.



The install is not complete, the Growatt charger has an error on it, it's not one he had seen before & was seeking technical support from them, also I was not here when this was discovered, so I'm expecting them back, but as I have their equipment & they do not have my money at present I'm not in any rush. 

The light is off most of the time during the day, if I put the kettle on it flashes at a rate, but then late in the evening it's on full time, so I'm hazarding a guess that when it's off we're producing enough for our basic needs, when it flashes we've pulled some form of unit from the grid & when it's lit all the time we're using grid only.


----------



## Buck (27 Aug 2022)

^that’s most likely.


----------



## mistyoptic (27 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Yes lots of people, some people are holding out to get the batteries they ordered, others are accepting whatever their supplier can get them, we were quoted a 5.3kWh (I think) but they fitted a 6.2kWh one as the container with the 6.2's arrived before the 5.3's.
> 
> Our system was installed last Monday, still not up & running correctly as there is an issue with one of the units, however for those that have a system installed we have a unit in the cupboard with a LED screen & a occasional red flashing LED, what does the flash indicate?
> 
> View attachment 658853


Can’t find anything in my papers but this from the web:

“There will be a red flashing light on your solar PV meter, this indicates the solar panels are generating electricity. The faster the light flashes, the more electricity is being generated.
If the red light is permanently on, this can mean the PV panels are not generating enough to register on the meter. This can happen for several days in winter when there is heavy cloud cover”.


----------



## Alex321 (30 Aug 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> We had ours done about a month ago - but they are having trouble getting the batteries
> They are being reasonable and have not charged us for them until they can fit them
> 
> Is anyone else having trouble getting hold of batteries?



Very much so.

Ours has still not been delivered/installed, and it was ordered with the system, installed in February.

As with yours, we have not paid for the battery yet either


----------



## MrGrumpy (30 Aug 2022)

Still waiting on quotes coming back …. I think business must be busy and don’t need anymore work ?


----------



## Phaeton (30 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Still waiting on quotes coming back …. I think business must be busy and don’t need anymore work ?


That & there is no stock with no end in sight of it getting better, so maybe they are concentrating on what they have.


----------



## MrGrumpy (30 Aug 2022)

Phaeton said:


> That & there is no stock with no end in sight of it getting better, so maybe they are concentrating on what they have.



True. May have missed the boat


----------



## Buck (30 Aug 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> True. May have missed the boat



Our whole system has been delayed but our view is that it’ll be worth the wait as energy prices are very 8nlikely to decrease and may continue to rise beyond the current projections. 

i would keep pushing - the queue is likely to keep getting longer!


----------



## CXRAndy (31 Aug 2022)

If you buy or borrow, a AC/DC clamp meter, you will be able to check at various points whether solar is being produced, batteries are charging or discharging and whether you are importing or exporting. Useful tool to do your own system checks.

I have this one https://www.test-meter.co.uk/martindale-cm79-true-rms-ac-dc-clamp-meter

Its paid for it self on first fault finding job.


----------



## Milkfloat (1 Sep 2022)

My system is being fitted next week - over a month earlier than expected. A question on tariffs - Octopus Agile versus Go Faster? This is on a 6.4 kW panels with 6.4kW battery system. What tariffs are you on?


----------



## kipster (1 Sep 2022)

I've applied for octopus agile outgoing but staying on octopus standard for incoming. 

I can't get go as I don't have an EV and you can't have go with agile outgoing


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> My system is being fitted next week - over a month earlier than expected. A question on tariffs - Octopus Agile versus Go Faster? This is on a 6.4 kW panels with 6.4kW battery system. What tariffs are you on?



Have you got an EV? You better answer yes. The GO and Agile tariffs are set-up for EV users foremost. 

Their policy may have changed recently, but answer correctly if asked


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> I've applied for octopus agile outgoing but staying on octopus standard for incoming.
> 
> I can't get go as I don't have an EV and you can't have go with agile outgoing



See above Paul


----------



## kipster (1 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Have you got an EV? You better answer yes. The GO and Agile tariffs are set-up for EV users foremost.
> 
> Their policy may have changed recently, but answer correctly if asked



Agile tarrifs are for solar PV not EV owners. Go is for EV. I'm not sure why anyone would choose agile incoming at the moment, seems to be pretty solid at 55p per kwh


----------



## Milkfloat (1 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Have you got an EV? You better answer yes. The GO and Agile tariffs are set-up for EV users foremost.
> 
> Their policy may have changed recently, but answer correctly if asked



I had heard that you need an EV for Go. I can always be confused and say I have and then if get challenged can say I charge at work. I was thinking that a combination of Go and Outgoing would be best for me, but if I cannot have that then perhaps it will be Agile and Outgoing. Or, to confuse things more. Have Go in winter when presumably I won't have much outgoing and then switch to Agile and Outgoing in summer. It is all very confusing. Plus the small matter of what to do with my gas supplier.


----------



## Alex321 (1 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I had heard that you need an EV for Go. I can always be confused and say I have and then if get challenged can say I charge at work. I was thinking that a combination of Go and Outgoing would be best for me, but if I cannot have that then perhaps it will be Agile and Outgoing. Or, to confuse things more. Have Go in winter when presumably I won't have much outgoing and then switch to Agile and Outgoing in summer. It is all very confusing. Plus the small matter of what to do with my gas supplier.



You really want agile outgoing, unless you actually have an EV to charge.

You can't have that with GO, which is designed specifically for EV users.

For most people without an EV, Agile both ways is the best option


----------



## Oldhippy (1 Sep 2022)

We are getting a roof full next year which will heat 8 long corridors, laundry, office, communal lounge for free after 36 months.


----------



## Milkfloat (1 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> You really want agile outgoing, unless you actually have an EV to charge.
> 
> You can't have that with GO, which is designed specifically for EV users.
> 
> For most people without an EV, Agile both ways is the best option



Even in winter when there will be very little outgoing?


----------



## jowwy (1 Sep 2022)

Just agreed the deal with my 3rd quoter

So im going with the following

8 x 405w Ja Solar tier 1 panels
1x Fox Hybrid 3.7kw inverter
fitting, cabling, scaffold, racking and commissioning

£5395

fitting in approx 6wks….no battery for now as my savings wont stretch to the extra 3k at the moment.

So will get the 5.3kw Battery fitted next year


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Sep 2022)

Just note down a registration and make of EV locally if they ask. They will never normally ask- they accepted I had a Nissan leaf, no quibble at all


----------



## Alex321 (2 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Even in winter when there will be very little outgoing?



Our system was fitted on 10th February (still Winter in my book). In the remainder of that month, we exported 218Kwh. Admittedly, it wouldn't have been nearly as much with the battery, but we would hardly have imported anything.

And what we would have exported could have been at the time of day when rates are highest.

Even at this time of year, there were about 2 hours today when their export rates were higher than their import rate (which they cap at 55p, the export is uncapped)


----------



## Alex321 (2 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Just note down a registration and make of EV locally if they ask. They will never normally ask- they accepted I had a Nissan leaf, no quibble at all



Why would anybody want to do this?

Their Go rate is good *IF* you have an EV. It isn't nearly good enough to outweigh the fact you can't use agile outgoing with it, and would only be getting 7p per unit.


----------



## jowwy (2 Sep 2022)

Where have people had their inverter and battery situated for install???? Ive got a few options, but not sure which one to go with


----------



## Phaeton (2 Sep 2022)

Ours is in the understairs cupboard which is accessible from the garage was originally the coal hole


----------



## kipster (3 Sep 2022)

My inverter and batteries are in a box room upstairs, the loft isn't big enough (chalet bungalow), and the box room gave easy access to the consumer unit and the panel wires from the roof.


----------



## ClichéGuevara (3 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Ours is in the understairs cupboard which is accessible from the garage was originally the coal hole



Blimey, no wonder you needed an alternative if you had to have a coal hole the size of a garage.


----------



## CXRAndy (3 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Why would anybody want to do this?



If you have appliances which can be run at specific times and a heating system like ground/air source. Running it on cheaper overnight tariff will work just as well as owning an EV. We got GO tariff for our EV but we also had groundsource heating so benefit both electric demands


----------



## MrGrumpy (3 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Where have people had their inverter and battery situated for install???? Ive got a few options, but not sure which one to go with



A lot seem to go for the loft ? However that’s the last place I’d want anything like that going.


----------



## jowwy (3 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> A lot seem to go for the loft ? However that’s the last place I’d want anything like that going.



Im thinking my home office and then run the cables through the attic……..i get to see it producing power as i work the and easy access for any repairs, maintenance etc etc


are the inverters noisy???


----------



## Phaeton (3 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> are the inverters noisy???


Apparently there is a slight buzz/hum, but I can't hear it


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (3 Sep 2022)

Ours is in the loft as well - not much on the readout that I need to know 

Unless I am missing something?


----------



## Phaeton (3 Sep 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Ours is in the loft as well - not much on the readout that I need to know
> 
> Unless I am missing something?



Nope it's all on the app, unless I suppose you had at some point physically switch it off, to get to ours you will have to move the Fridge/Freezer so I'm hoping not.


----------



## Buck (3 Sep 2022)

Ours is going in the garage…


----------



## jowwy (3 Sep 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Ours is in the loft as well - not much on the readout that I need to know
> 
> Unless I am missing something?



Yeh mrs has over ruled me, so the attic its going. Im just thinking about the shut off. So will see if that can go down by the main supply, but will see


----------



## Buck (3 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Yeh mrs has over ruled me, so the attic its going. Im just thinking about the shut off. So will see if that can go down by the main supply, but will see



You should be able to have dual isolators. One near your consumer unit and one near the inverter


----------



## jowwy (3 Sep 2022)

Buck said:


> You should be able to have dual isolators. One near your consumer unit and one near the inverter



Will ask the question, thats all i want is the peace of mind to be able to shut it down if need be. I dont have a battery yet, but that can also go in the attic if theres no need for immediate access and the app does all the readings etc etc


----------



## MrGrumpy (3 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Im thinking my home office and then run the cables through the attic……..i get to see it producing power as i work the and easy access for any repairs, maintenance etc etc
> 
> 
> are the inverters noisy???



None of the ones we have at work are but I’m risk averse to stuff like that going in my loft. However I’m assured by some installers that there will s minimal risk ?! Anyway mine don’t need to go there . Consumer unit is right next to my garage which has space right next to it for all that stuff .

Lofts get hot so do inverters , best keep them cool ?


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Sep 2022)

Well my quote came through at nearly £15k !!!


----------



## jowwy (5 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Well my quote came through at nearly £15k !!!



whats in that quote altogether??


----------



## Phaeton (5 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> whats in that quote altogether??



Something very impressive I hope.


----------



## jowwy (5 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Something very impressive I hope.



im hoping its not a massively over inflated fitting cost, like ese groups quote was for me.......3k parts, 5k fitting ( but hey they offered me a free 10 yr maintanance package of circa 2.6k over the 10yrs) so not entirely free, just paid for up front


----------



## cougie uk (5 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> It was Infinity renewables via a solar together scheme. The original company on the scheme couldn't deliver and infinity renewables took all the customers on.



Interesting - my local council is doing a scheme like this and they are offering all houses that are interested to the best bidder at the end of September. I see other councils are doing it too. 

I've entered my details to see what comes from it anyway.


----------



## jowwy (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Interesting - my local council is doing a scheme like this and they are offering all houses that are interested to the best bidder at the end of September. I see other councils are doing it too.
> 
> I've entered my details to see what comes from it anyway.



could be a long lead time after that, so could be a few big bills coming. If your on the standard tariff rght now while you wait


----------



## Milkfloat (5 Sep 2022)

My local council tried a 'bulk rate' for electricity and gas bills a few years in a row. Each time was significantly more expensive than an individual would have paid going direct. I don't see solar being any different. The more organisations involved the more people to pay and profit to be made.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> profit to be made.


Those are the magic words


----------



## cougie uk (5 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> My local council tried a 'bulk rate' for electricity and gas bills a few years in a row. Each time was significantly more expensive than an individual would have paid going direct. I don't see solar being any different. The more organisations involved the more people to pay and profit to be made.



It's economies of scale isn't it. Hence why a multinational who has big buying power gets better service and prices than individuals. 

Of course it does depend on the skills of the people implementing the deal. They need to do their homework so that it's only awarded to a competent and trustworthy bidder.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> It's economies of scale isn't it. Hence why a multinational who has big buying power gets better service and prices than individuals.
> 
> Of course it does depend on the skills of the people implementing the deal. They need to do their homework so that it's only awarded to a competent and trustworthy bidder.



Did you type that with your tongue firmly stuck to the side of your cheek, our councils have never been ones to "do their homework" and find a "competent and trustworthy bidder."


----------



## cougie uk (5 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Did you type that with your tongue firmly stuck to the side of your cheek, our councils have never been ones to "do their homework" and find a "competent and trustworthy bidder."



I've not worked in the public sector so can't comment.


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> whats in that quote altogether??



All in the fitting costs were high ! I’m in another group discussion and the consensus is that it is way off. However cheap also doesn’t mean better. I’ll continue my quest.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've not worked in the public sector so can't comment.


No, neither have I, but I have seen endless examples of squandering money on many things, where if you asked them would they have paid for that out of their own money the answer would be No, along with the deliberate emptying of the bank accounts in March just to ensure they secure more funding next year.


----------



## cougie uk (5 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> No, neither have I, but I have seen endless examples of squandering money on many things, where if you asked them would they have paid for that out of their own money the answer would be No, along with the deliberate emptying of the bank accounts in March just to ensure they secure more funding next year.



Not that surprising when you consider how many things they do. I'm sure just as many examples are there for private companies.

Everyone manages their budget the same- if you don't spend it you lose it this year and for the future.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Everyone manages their budget the same- if you don't spend it you lose it this year and for the future.


Not here come in under budget as long as it's all done & works you get a pat on the back, 50% of the saving would be nice but you can't have everything,


----------



## jowwy (5 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> All in the fitting costs were high ! I’m in another group discussion and the consensus is that it is way off. However cheap also doesn’t mean better. I’ll continue my quest.



Not sure were your based but take a look at Duel Fuel Solutions out of Bolton


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Not sure were your based but take a look at Duel Fuel Solutions out of Bolton



I’m Scotland so need someone more local


----------



## potsy (6 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> I’m Scotland so need someone more local



Don't you also need some sunlight?


----------



## jowwy (6 Sep 2022)

potsy said:


> Don't you also need some sunlight?



daylight.....


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

So a couple of questions for the knowledgeable. My system was setup yesterday and seems to be operating as planned, but I have two questions. Am I right in thinking that I am exporting to the grid at the moment because the battery can only charge at 1 kW? I would prefer to max my battery before any export. My app shows that I have not setup any export yet. 
Secondly - earlier on I was consuming about 200W and charging the battery at about 300W yet for some reason I was consuming about 50W from the grid. Again, is this normal?


----------



## jowwy (8 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> So a couple of questions for the knowledgeable. My system was setup yesterday and seems to be operating as planned, but I have two questions. Am I right in thinking that I am exporting to the grid at the moment because the battery can only charge at 1 kW? I would prefer to max my battery before any export. My app shows that I have not setup any export yet.
> Secondly - earlier on I was consuming about 200W and charging the battery at about 300W yet for some reason I was consuming about 50W from the grid. Again, is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 660389



i think you need to put the settings to feed house, then battery, then grid........you may just have a general setting to feed all 3 in small amounts 

Your battery is only 35% full, so its got nothing to do with only being able to charge at 1kw


----------



## kipster (8 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> So a couple of questions for the knowledgeable. My system was setup yesterday and seems to be operating as planned, but I have two questions. Am I right in thinking that I am exporting to the grid at the moment because the battery can only charge at 1 kW? I would prefer to max my battery before any export. My app shows that I have not setup any export yet.
> Secondly - earlier on I was consuming about 200W and charging the battery at about 300W yet for some reason I was consuming about 50W from the grid. Again, is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 660389



Check the settings on the inverter, what model is it?


----------



## Buck (8 Sep 2022)

The inverter should be a "smart" one and you can (likely through the app) tell it to prioritise what it does with the solar feed. This will determine how much you import from the grid i.e. if you tell it to use all solar for immediate demand and surplus then to battery or prioritise battery charging etc.

It maybe that the battery is set to only take x power so the inverter is then releasing this to the grid?

What inverter do you have and what power rating is it?


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> Check the settings on the inverter, what model is it?



It is LuxPowerTek - I think the 3.6k hybrid





These are my settings






Right now it is doing this


----------



## kipster (8 Sep 2022)

That inverted has a charge rate of 3600watts.

The inverter has 4 operating modes:
Self usage (default), solar priority is to load, battery then grid.

Charge priority. Battery then load then grid

Force time. User can set the charge/discharge time and priority

Micro grid mode. Off grid applications. 

So assuming that you're on self usage it should be be sending any extra after load to the batteries. If it's not sending all the extra to the battery then there could be a problem.


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> That inverted has a charge rate of 3600watts.
> 
> The inverter has 4 operating modes:
> Self usage (default), solar priority is to load, battery then grid.
> ...



I think I am on the default - it seems to jump around a bit. I have contacted the installers and am waiting a call back. At some point I want to know how to set to charge the battery at night, but that can wait until I get this sorted. I think I do that using the AC Charge or Charge Priority parts of the configuration, but am not sure the difference between the two, my guess is AC charge is what I need.


----------



## kipster (8 Sep 2022)

There is a long thread on money saving expert on ac charging on the lux which may be a trawl through


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> There is a long thread on money saving expert on ac charging on the lux which may be a trawl through



Thanks - I will try and search it out.


----------



## kipster (8 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Thanks - I will try and search it out.



Sorry I found it on another device while using my phone to reply.

This is the thread, all 115 pages of it.....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6113817/lux-ac-battery-controller


----------



## Alex321 (8 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> i think you need to put the settings to feed house, then battery, then grid........you may just have a general setting to feed all 3 in small amounts
> 
> Your battery is only 35% full, so its got nothing to do with only being able to charge at 1kw



It is very likely that regardless of how full it is, it can only charge at a certain maximum current, which when multiplied by the voltage translates to it taking a maximum power.

But 1Kw seems awfully low for that. I believe most solar battery systems have. Charge/discharge rate more between 2Kw and 4Kw.
[EDIT] And according to the above, his should have a maximum rate of 3600w


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> Sorry I found it on another device while using my phone to reply.
> 
> This is the thread, all 115 pages of it.....
> 
> https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6113817/lux-ac-battery-controller



Thanks, the installers have not got back to me yet. I have read all 115 pages and now have a better understanding, from what I can tell the settings are correct. The thread has given me a few more questions for the installers too. I think I will need to keep an eye on it and wait out for a really sunny day to see what happens.


----------



## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> It is very likely that regardless of how full it is, it can only charge at a certain maximum current, which when multiplied by the voltage translates to it taking a maximum power.
> 
> But 1Kw seems awfully low for that. I believe most solar battery systems have. Charge/discharge rate more between 2Kw and 4Kw.
> [EDIT] And according to the above, his should have a maximum rate of 3600w



Yup, that is my worry that somehow it is set in the hardware at 1 or 1.2 kW charge power.


----------



## Milkfloat (9 Sep 2022)

Had a good chat to a seemingly knowledgably trouble-shooter from the fitting company. He says that the dashboard cannot really be believed over short periods of time as the system is continually adjusting and balancing the inputs and outputs and after big sudden changes will dump/pull to/from a variety of sources. This seems plausible to me and when I look at the longer term side of things the it all looks fairly normal.

Some of my other questions regarding firmware updates and battery monitoring remain unanswered but he did promise to get back to me when he had spoken to the manufacturer. I was however told I would get an EPS socket added by the salesman, but he said that they don't do that so I would have to do it myself, which is simple enough. I might leave until I actually need it though rather than bringing down the whole system to wire it in.


----------



## Phaeton (9 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I was however told I would get an EPS socket added by the salesman, but he said that they don't do that so I would have to do it myself, which is simple enough. I might leave until I actually need it though rather than bringing down the whole system to wire it in.


I would be hanging on for them to fit what they quoted, if you go into the Inverter to wire a socket you are leaving yourself open to invalidating the warranty claims. I have a query over the way ours will work, I was assured that in the even of failure our power would stay on up the the capability of the battery, I was expecting either a manual or automatic isolation switch, but he is claiming it's not required. Currently I don't see how all our stored electricity will not be just sucked straight up the road, but waiting until it's fully commissioned before further questions.

Our is still not up & running correctly the panels are producing electricity which we are using, but the battery charger is still not talking to the battery as the firmware on the charger & battery are different, they have fitted the dongle to the charger but all attempts to talk to it have failed, they need a Growatt installers code, the ones they have registered to them don't work.


----------



## Phaeton (9 Sep 2022)

Very wordy & he likes the sound of his voice but then again he is a barrister but it's worth a watch, there is a 2nd one about panels but I've not watched it yet.


----------



## jowwy (13 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I would be hanging on for them to fit what they quoted, if you go into the Inverter to wire a socket you are leaving yourself open to invalidating the warranty claims. I have a query over the way ours will work, I was assured that in the even of failure our power would stay on up the the capability of the battery, I was expecting either a manual or automatic isolation switch, but he is claiming it's not required. Currently I don't see how all our stored electricity will not be just sucked straight up the road, but waiting until it's fully commissioned before further questions.
> 
> Our is still not up & running correctly the panels are producing electricity which we are using, but the battery charger is still not talking to the battery as the firmware on the charger & battery are different, they have fitted the dongle to the charger but all attempts to talk to it have failed, they need a Growatt installers code, the ones they have registered to them don't work.



is it all working properly now??


----------



## Phaeton (13 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> is it all working properly now??



Hopefully within the hour, I got the datalogger onto the WiFi this morning, but there was still a communication problem, although I can now see what's going in & out of the system. But the software on the inverter is still wrong, so I've just been on the phone with Growatt & they have made the inverter ask for an upgrade or they are forcing an upgrade not 100% sure. But will let you know


----------



## irw (14 Sep 2022)

Got my installation date now...18th October! Now just to order some new guttering...


----------



## Alex321 (14 Sep 2022)

Finally got an installation date for the battery!

29th September - only 8 months after installation of the panels!


----------



## jowwy (14 Sep 2022)

Just signed my contract, will drop the deposit tmrw………its game time


----------



## jowwy (20 Sep 2022)

Just put a solar panel on the roof of my man cave……got a 20amp renogy rover mppt solar charger, 130ah deep cycle leisure battery, 12v fuse box and 300watt 12v inverter. Going to set it all up to charge tool batteries, ebikes, lighting etc etc


----------



## Buck (20 Sep 2022)

The survey was done last weekend for us. Seemed pretty comprehensive including using a commercial drone for a full aerial survey. surveyor said “nice and straight forward” and we’ve had an update to say the design team are finalising optimal layout etc. 
The challenge is lack of stock so no install date just yet !


----------



## jowwy (21 Sep 2022)

I have a fitting date for the 4th October…….so approx 6wks from when i first got my quote, to fitting


----------



## kipster (21 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> I have a fitting date for the 4th October…….so approx 6wks from when i first got my quote, to fitting



Not bad.

I'm hopefully in the last day or so before my export tariff goes live. It's been a bit of a slog to get the paperwork from the installer to getting the export mpan but fingers crossed it all goes live tomorrow.

So far I've exported 1200kwh for free.

I went with Octopus export agile but now see that octopus have put up their fixed export tarrifs to 15p per kwh.


----------



## jowwy (21 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> Not bad.
> 
> I'm hopefully in the last day or so before my export tariff goes live. It's been a bit of a slog to get the paperwork from the installer to getting the export mpan but fingers crossed it all goes live tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Were are you seeing the octopus export tarrifs…..i only found the 5p/kwh one yesterday


----------



## kipster (21 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Were are you seeing the octopus export tarrifs…..i only found the 5p/kwh one yesterday



I think there are three rates.

1. You aren't using octopus for electricity, so you get the 5p rate

2. You are an octopus customer and you get the fixed 15p rate

3. You are an octopus customer and you get the agile rate which varies every half hour

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/#:~:text=Outgoing Octopus comes in two,of the energy you generate.


----------



## kipster (21 Sep 2022)

I find this is better at explaining the octopus export stuff

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export/


----------



## jowwy (21 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> I find this is better at explaining the octopus export stuff
> 
> https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export/



Cheers for that kipster, once im fitted i will give them a call and get switched…..


----------



## Alex321 (21 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Cheers for that kipster, once im fitted i will give them a call and get switched…..



I've been trying to get switched, but they aren't letting you do it online at the moment, so I need to call them tomorrow.


----------



## Phaeton (22 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I've been trying to get switched, but they aren't letting you do it online at the moment, so I need to call them tomorrow.



They respond on Twitter, I created an account just to talk to them, they seem to respond quickly, far quicker than email


----------



## jowwy (22 Sep 2022)

im hoping that if i can get on octopus fixed at 15p/kwh that i will be able to export enough to mitigate my small import and never have an electric bill.....as i dont have a battery


----------



## Milkfloat (22 Sep 2022)

I went live on a regular Octopus contract today (took 3 days). I am hoping that my requested switch to 'Go' occurs before presumed further price rises at the start of Oct due to the cap lifting. I am also hoping that I can be on the fixed export tariff too.  If I get enough batteries I can buy at 7.5p and sell back at 15p.


----------



## Alex321 (22 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I went live on a regular Octopus contract today (took 3 days). I am hoping that my requested switch to 'Go' occurs before presumed further price rises at the start of Oct due to the cap lifting. I am also hoping that I can be on the fixed export tariff too. If I get enough batteries I can buy at 7.5p and sell back at 15p.



I've just transferred to Octopus too, having phoned them this afternoon. Takes effect on Saturday, then I can switch to agile online. The battery should be installed on Monday, so we should only have a couple of days taking any import from them before we have the battery to see us through the nights.

Hopefully it will only be a fairly small number of days each winter where we need any import at all - their customer services guy was surprised when I told him how big a system we have.


----------



## kipster (22 Sep 2022)

As there are few people looking at octopus and others on here already with them it might be be worth asking for referral codes. Each party will get £50 credited to the account for each referral.


----------



## Phaeton (22 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> As there are few people looking at octopus and others on here already with them it might be be worth asking for referral codes. Each party will get £50 credited to the account for each referral.



If anybody does want one, I have one here


----------



## Alex321 (22 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> If anybody does want one, I have one here



If you send me a message with it, I can put it in - there is a place for "Forgot to enter referral code" on their dashboard.


----------



## Alex321 (22 Sep 2022)

And of course, I also have one if anybody else is signing up.


----------



## Milkfloat (22 Sep 2022)

Funnily enough I am more than happy to share my code and give a new sign up £50 
https://share.octopus.energy/topaz-bee-776

edit:
@Alex321 Used my code, so nobody else should use mine, use his instead.


----------



## kipster (22 Sep 2022)

My referral code is https://share.octopus.energy/dusky-woods-897

I've got one from Milkfloat going through at the moment, but it's there for others to use if they want.

It looks like my export is now all set up, hopefully the 6kwh I've exported so far today will earn me a few pennies.


----------



## Milkfloat (22 Sep 2022)

I am still giving away my export - 7kWh today, but I did fill the batteries to 100% from 10%. I put a smart switch on my immersion which I sometimes trigger when production is really high. If I get 15p per kWh export I don't think it will get used much as gas is much cheaper to buy.


----------



## kipster (22 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I am still giving away my export - 7kWh today, but I did fill the batteries to 100% from 10%. I put a smart switch on my immersion which I sometimes trigger when production is really high. If I get 15p per kWh export I don't think it will get used much as gas is much cheaper to buy.



I'm not using the iboost at the moment for the same reason, well that and the hot water tank (227l) didn't last with four adults in the house on just the solar excess.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (22 Sep 2022)

I have gone withEDF for the SEG
would have used Octopus instead but our fixed deal for grid energy is far too good to make changing worth while

and hopefully we will not export all that much once the batteries arrive


----------



## Alex321 (23 Sep 2022)

Battery has now been delivered, installation on Monday.


----------



## mjr (23 Sep 2022)

How do you figure out who to ask to quote and install? Last installer never sent a quote, seemed to want to do bigger or easier buildings.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (23 Sep 2022)

mjr said:


> How do you figure out who to ask to quote and install? Last installer never sent a quote, seemed to want to do bigger or easier buildings.



I just looked around form any company in the local area and asked about 5 for quotes

Not as easy as I make it sound as I tried a few years ago and no-one wanted to quote - one person rang up to do a 'telephone survey' then refused to quote when he noticed there were trees at the bottom of the garden - which wasn;t a problem as they never shade the roof but he wouldn;t be told!

Also look for recommendations for local firms on things like local Facebook groups and Nextdoor

You could also look or local houses that have panels and drop a note through the door asking them if they can recommend the installer


----------



## Milkfloat (23 Sep 2022)

I tried about 15 companies - quotes from 4, about 6 or 7 totally ignored me. I think the company I used work nationally if you want a recommendation.


----------



## Gillstay (23 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> I'm not using the iboost at the moment for the same reason, well that and the hot water tank (227l) didn't last with four adults in the house on just the solar excess.



Our mixergy tank is doing very well. much improved on just a normal tank and iboost. Very pleased.


----------



## Alex321 (23 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Funnily enough I am more than happy to share my code and give a new sign up £50
> https://share.octopus.energy/topaz-bee-776



Applied yours, since you were the first to post it.

Mine is https://share.octopus.energy/crisp-owl-479 if anybody else is signing up.


----------



## Alex321 (23 Sep 2022)

We signed up to Which? For a month, to get their report on solar, then tried a few of their "trusted traders".

Got quotes from two of those.

Went with Tile Energy in the end, they operate nationwide.


----------



## jowwy (27 Sep 2022)

anyone got a referral code - i have one if someone wants it 

https://share.octopus.energy/pink-camel-127


----------



## jowwy (27 Sep 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Applied yours, since you were the first to post it.
> 
> Mine is https://share.octopus.energy/crisp-owl-479 if anybody else is signing up.



ive used this referral, but mine is available to anyone above


----------



## jowwy (29 Sep 2022)

is anyone signed up to the octopus outgoing at 15p yet???


----------



## Milkfloat (29 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> is anyone signed up to the octopus outgoing at 15p yet???



Signed up but waiting for it to go live, been about a week so far. Latest stage claims to be
"Enabling Export Functionality
We are now connecting to your smart meter in order to receive half-hourly export data. Once this is complete we can start crediting you."

It is certainly not an instant process.

Buying at 7.5p and selling back at 15p has it attractions.


----------



## jowwy (29 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Signed up but waiting for it to go live, been about a week so far. Latest stage claims to be
> "Enabling Export Functionality
> We are now connecting to your smart meter in order to receive half-hourly export data. Once this is complete we can start crediting you."
> 
> ...



do they need the half hour readings for the fixed price?? i thought that was only for the outgoing agile??


----------



## Phaeton (29 Sep 2022)

I have applied but still waiting for MPAN to come from the DNO


----------



## Alex321 (29 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> is anyone signed up to the octopus outgoing at 15p yet???



I've applied for the outgoing agile, and am waiting for the MPAN at the moment. Battery is now full, so we are exporting at the moment. If I was home, I'd be turning on the immersion (Eddi being installed next Tuesday).


----------



## kipster (29 Sep 2022)

My mpan (sse) took about 3 weeks to come through, then about another 4 days for octopus to do their bit.


----------



## Milkfloat (29 Sep 2022)

I have just had a mail from Octopus saying that I cannot have Outgoing and Go at the same time (which kind of makes sense), but I need to sign up to the SEG. However, my dashboard seems to show that it is almost fully setup. I am not sure what to do.


----------



## jowwy (29 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> My mpan (sse) took about 3 weeks to come through, then about another 4 days for octopus to do their bit.



Whats the MPAN??? My solar is being fitted tuesday, is it something they will give me at the time???


----------



## kipster (29 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> Whats the MPAN??? My solar is being fitted tuesday, is it something they will give me at the time???



Once you've got all the certs you submit them to set up the SEG. Your energy company will submit a request for the mpan (it's the meter export number, you will have one on your bill for import already). Once they have the mpan for export they can register your meter with them for export.


----------



## jowwy (29 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> Once you've got all the certs you submit them to set up the SEG. Your energy company will submit a request for the mpan (it's the meter export number, you will have one on your bill for import already). Once they have the mpan for export they can register your meter with them for export.



So i only need the mcs then, as my system is only 3.2kw, so i dont need dno permission….i only have to notify them after fitting.


----------



## kipster (30 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> So i only need the mcs then, as my system is only 3.2kw, so i dont need dno permission….i only have to notify them after fitting.



Yep, once they are notified by your installer (or you) they give you an acknowledgement, that gets submitted with the MCS cert when setting up the SEG and the supplier takes care of the rest.


----------



## jowwy (30 Sep 2022)

kipster said:


> Yep, once they are notified by your installer (or you) they give you an acknowledgement, that gets submitted with the MCS cert when setting up the SEG and the supplier takes care of the rest.



good, cause i'm gonna be exporting a lot with no battery....but with the 15p rate it should help pay the evening and night time electric use


----------



## Milkfloat (30 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> good, cause i'm gonna be exporting a lot with no battery....but with the 15p rate it should help pay the evening and night time electric use



What import tariff are you going for?


----------



## jowwy (30 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> What import tariff are you going for?



octopus flexi tariff, so protected by the price cap.....


----------



## Milkfloat (30 Sep 2022)

jowwy said:


> octopus flexi tariff, so protected by the price cap.....



I might swap to that in Summer, but for winter will import to my battery at night via the Go tariff.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Sep 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> I might swap to that in Summer, but for winter will import to my battery at night via the Go tariff.



Do you think they will accept my grandson's RC car as an EV?


----------



## jowwy (30 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Do you think they will accept my grandson's RC car as an EV?



you could try lol


----------



## Milkfloat (30 Sep 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Do you think they will accept my grandson's RC car as an EV?



They accepted my neighbours car


----------



## CXRAndy (1 Oct 2022)

* Current*ly electricity suppliers are accepting on face value that if you say you have an EV, it is so.

Regarding a battery back up instead of an EV, again it's identical to a car for load- just capacity is less


----------



## jowwy (3 Oct 2022)

Big Day at Jowwy Towers tomorrow…..the big black slabs are being fitted.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (3 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> Big Day at Jowwy Towers tomorrow…..the big black slabs are being fitted.



Hope it goes well - let us know!

Just in time for winter as well!


----------



## jowwy (3 Oct 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Hope it goes well - let us know!
> 
> Just in time for winter as well!



Scrap that….they have broken down on the motorway to get here tonight for early start. Need to re-schedule. Got an email at 8:15


----------



## Phaeton (3 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> Scrap that….they have broken down on the motorway to get here tonight for early start. Need to re-schedule. Got an email at 8:15


They've looked at the forecast! 
I was due to ride the Mawddach Trail tomorrow & it looks like it's rain all day & then 50mph winds Wednesday


----------



## Alex321 (3 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> They've looked at the forecast!
> I was due to ride the Mawddach Trail tomorrow & it looks like it's rain all day & then 50mph winds Wednesday



Yeah, I'm not looking forward to Wednesday's commute. Not forecast quite as windy as that here, but still winds of 30-50Km/h and 90% chance of rain.


----------



## jowwy (3 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> They've looked at the forecast!
> I was due to ride the Mawddach Trail tomorrow & it looks like it's rain all day & then 50mph winds Wednesday



Rain only forecast for after 1pm tmrw here…..panels would have been fitted by then


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Oct 2022)

After what seems a very long time. We have now been granted planning permission for our solar.


----------



## Milkfloat (5 Oct 2022)

It all goes slowly - I am still not being paid for my feed in production.


----------



## Hebe (5 Oct 2022)

Our panels were due to arrive with the installers today. Not heard anything. The original, very optimistic installation date was the first week in July.


----------



## kipster (5 Oct 2022)

I'm getting paid, well octopus are recording my output but no actual credit yet.

It's odd though, my meter is saying much more exported than my inverter, about 60% more.

I'm away from home at the moment so can't read them both and note down the values, but one of them is wrong!


----------



## Milkfloat (5 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> I'm getting paid, well octopus are recording my output but no actual credit yet.
> 
> It's odd though, my meter is saying much more exported than my inverter, about 60% more.
> 
> I'm away from home at the moment so can't read them both and note down the values, but one of them is wrong!



Looks like I still have one stage to go. Been on this stage for over a week.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> It all goes slowly - I am still not being paid for my feed in production.



Me neither but it's down to my installer whom I am now chasing daily


----------



## kipster (5 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Looks like I still have one stage to go. Been on this stage for over a week.
> View attachment 663477



That's were I am, do you see anything under 'view export output'?

Further down the usage page If it says 'poppy cock' click on day then week and a graph should appear.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (5 Oct 2022)

I have just got confirmation from EDF that they now have everything they need to start paying my SEG
Quite impressed that, in spite of a delay of over 6 weeks from applying for it, they are paying based on the original reading I gave them when I applied
Not so impressed that the cost in phone calls - mostly listening to the same 'hold' music is probably more than I have gained from the SEG in that time!!!

BTW - if anyone needs SEG from EDF - you need to ring them on 0333 0079007 JUST after 10a.m. when the lines open - after that you get stuck in a queue for a LONG time
and taking up the "send us an email" option is the same as not bothering to ring in the first place!


----------



## Milkfloat (5 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> That's were I am, do you see anything under 'view export output'?
> 
> Further down the usage page If it says 'poppy cock' click on day then week and a graph should appear.
> 
> View attachment 663480



Yes, I see them measuring it, but are they ready to pay for it?


----------



## kipster (6 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Yes, I see them measuring it, but are they ready to pay for it?



If they are getting the readings they will pay for it. I assume the last stage is 'we've credited you' or something.

I don't know when though.


----------



## CXRAndy (6 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> If they are getting the readings they will pay for it. I assume the last stage is 'we've credited you' or something.
> 
> I don't know when though.



Probably at the same time energy supplier create your usage bill, either monthly or quarterly. Then they will NET off your electric from their charging


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Oct 2022)

My initial enquiry with the DNO isn't very promising for my ambitions.

They have stated I can only generate upto10kW with me paying to upgrade their aging newtork back to the sub station if I would want more-I do  

They basically ignored my questions on export limit figures and quoted G99 standards.

I think I'll need to make an official application for a G100 setup and await their response.


----------



## Buck (9 Oct 2022)

Partial good news for me. 

The survey shows they can fit 9 panels on the south elevation (estimate was 4)

This means I need less on the west array - down to 11 from 20. 
If I want to stay at 24 panels I will need a larger inverter due to the power generation. 

I spoke to them on Friday and dropped to the 9 and 11 option. 

Just waiting for them to be able to confirm supply dates.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (9 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> My initial enquiry with the DNO isn't very promising for my ambitions.
> 
> They have stated I can only generate upto10kW with me paying to upgrade their aging newtork back to the sub station if I would want more-I do
> 
> ...



Maybe check out OFGEN (or whoever) and check if they are supposed to have the infrastructure in place and are trying to hide their failure 

It doesn;t seem reasonable to insist on domestic properties to upgrade their equipment

maybe writing to your MP might help?


----------



## CXRAndy (9 Oct 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Maybe check out OFGEN (or whoever) and check if they are supposed to have the infrastructure in place and are trying to hide their failure
> 
> It doesn;t seem reasonable to insist on domestic properties to upgrade their equipment
> 
> maybe writing to your MP might help?



DNO are going off G99 which is for installation greater than 16A per phase. It's a bit disappointing that there first response, if you want more, network improvement will be needed and I'm liable. 

I've heard on some forums, that DNOs have varied attitudes to G100 installations too. If equipment is G100 compliant, has a certificate of conformity, then they should be forced to automatically accept the installation-subject to their feed in limit and proper equipment installation


----------



## Arjimlad (12 Oct 2022)

Now I've got all the paperwork for our installation I am looking at who wants to pay the most for the surplus we can't use or store in the battery. 

We're on a lovely fixed price supply of gas & elec from Eon which lasts until the end of March 2023, so I do not want to be upsetting that applecart! 

I understand though that we can flog the output to the highest bidder... Any top tips?


----------



## jowwy (12 Oct 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> Now I've got all the paperwork for our installation I am looking at who wants to pay the most for the surplus we can't use or store in the battery.
> 
> We're on a lovely fixed price supply of gas & elec from Eon which lasts until the end of March 2023, so I do not want to be upsetting that applecart!
> 
> I understand though that we can flog the output to the highest bidder... Any top tips?



unless you switch suppliers, your stuck with E.ons 3p/kwh or you can get 5p/kwh from octopus.........i suppose you have to weigh up which is more important


----------



## Arjimlad (12 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> unless you switch suppliers, your stuck with E.ons 3p/kwh or you can get 5p/kwh from octopus.........i suppose you have to weigh up which is more important



I think keeping the fixed rates over this winter will be more important than 2p/kwh! Thanks


----------



## jowwy (12 Oct 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> I think keeping the fixed rates over this winter will be more important than 2p/kwh! Thanks



i totally agree.......but you can still get the 5p/kwh if you dont switch - so in essence you gain 2p/kwh

but if like me, i switched to octopus on the 29th september, took the pain of a 1 day fixed rate before the price cap kicked in the next day......and now im going to get 15p/kwh for solar back to the grid.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (12 Oct 2022)

I had the same problem
I am fixed with EDF and their rates were awful but it was a non-starter to switch supplier and the rates for other companies were not good for non supply companies
Then EDF introduced a much higher rate for supply customer

However, they seem to have been taken by surprise at the take up - and hence I have got intoa bit of aproblem getting it all sorted
But this may not be normal - looks like it wasn;t EDF's fault

You have to check out the current (sorry!!) rates and look at your fixed rate

It seems unlikely that anyone with an old fixed rate will better off by ditching their fixed rate to get a better SEG
unless they have a Tesla Powerwall possibly

But you just have to put it all together and work it out


----------



## Alex321 (13 Oct 2022)

Arjimlad said:


> Now I've got all the paperwork for our installation I am looking at who wants to pay the most for the surplus we can't use or store in the battery.
> 
> We're on a lovely fixed price supply of gas & elec from Eon which lasts until the end of March 2023, so I do not want to be upsetting that applecart!
> 
> I understand though that we can flog the output to the highest bidder... Any top tips?



I'd stay where you are for those 6 months, then switch.

You can sell to whoever pays the most, but most will not pay much, and even the ones who pay decent amounts will only do so if you also take your supply from them.


----------



## jowwy (13 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> *I'd stay where you are for those 6 months, then switch.*
> 
> You can sell to whoever pays the most, but most will not pay much, and even the ones who pay decent amounts will only do so if you also take your supply from them.



then he would be switching to one of their Non-flexible rates and wont be protected from the price cap.

I did the same with octopus, but made sure it was only 1 day before the new price cap came in...so the very next day i was put on the flexible tariff and protected. I'm afraid the horse has bolted for 2yrs with the price cap guarantee and all you can now get is the low 3p or 5p offers from his own supplier or an external supplier without switching.


----------



## Alex321 (13 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> then he would be switching to one of their Non-flexible rates and wont be protected from the price cap.
> 
> I did the same with octopus, but made sure it was only 1 day before the new price cap came in...so the very next day i was put on the flexible tariff and protected. I'm afraid the horse has bolted for 2yrs with the price cap guarantee and all you can now get is the low 3p or 5p offers from his own supplier or an external supplier without switching.



Sorry, wasn't necessarily clear. I didn't mean switch to another tariff from same supplier, I meant switch to whichever gives the best overall value.

If you are likely to be exporting a lot and importing little, that currently means Octopus Agile. But it all depends on individual usage patterns and generation capacity.


----------



## chris-suffolk (13 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Sorry, wasn't necessarily clear. I didn't mean switch to another tariff from same supplier, I meant switch to whichever gives the best overall value.
> 
> If you are likely to be exporting a lot and importing little, that currently means Octopus Agile. But it all depends on individual usage patterns and generation capacity.



I'm on the old system, 'Feed in Tariff', and can't get Octopus to take me, despite e-mails for over a month now. Guess I'll just have to stay where I am.


----------



## ShawnBikes (13 Oct 2022)

I'd love to get a solar setup for a small shed versus my home. Mainly because of expense. I have friends around me that are full solar and they swear by it. A lot of them are farmers and live in an area without a tree canopy. We live in the woods so it might be a bit more difficult for us.

I've been eyeing a portable wooden shed for a bike workshop and kayak storage and would love to solar power it!


----------



## Alex321 (13 Oct 2022)

chris-suffolk said:


> I'm on the old system, 'Feed in Tariff', and can't get Octopus to take me, despite e-mails for over a month now. Guess I'll just have to stay where I am.



Worth phoning them, although there can be a long wait time. Once you get through, and explain your situation, they are very helpful IME, and got me set up there and then - on their standard tariff, but easily changeable online once setup.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (14 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Worth phoning them, although there can be a long wait time. Once you get through, and explain your situation, they are very helpful IME, and got me set up there and then - on their standard tariff, but easily changeable online once setup.



Make sure you do it from a phone with free calls - I have just noticed that my calls to EDF to get the SEG will probably wipe out the payments for a long time!!


----------



## Alex321 (14 Oct 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Make sure you do it from a phone with free calls - I have just noticed that my calls to EDF to get the SEG will probably wipe out the payments for a long time!!



I hardly even consider that unless it is a premium number. Both my mobile and our home phone have unlimited calls to regular UK numbers and mobiles included.


----------



## irw (14 Oct 2022)

Scaffolding going up now! Panels due to be installed next week...


----------



## jowwy (14 Oct 2022)

irw said:


> Scaffolding going up now! Panels due to be installed next week...



What you having altogether??? Mine is being fitted tuesday after a 2wk delay


----------



## Hebe (15 Oct 2022)

Our panels have arrived! Scaffolding should go up this week and then installation next Saturday. The cabling is done already as much as possible and the battery and inverter/car charger in place. I need to start thinking about selling any excess back to the grid, though I don’t know how much excess there’ll be over the winter months with a battery too.


----------



## irw (17 Oct 2022)

Panel Day tomorrow! Me and my brother have spent the last two days cleaning the roof, replacing the front gutters, and replacing a couple of broken tiles before they get covered up:


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

Solar fitting day today……its sunny, no wind and zero chance of rain.


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

The guys are here……so by the end of today we be solaring lol


----------



## Hebe (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> The guys are here……so by the end of today we be solaring lol



That must be a relief after the various delays! Our scaffolding has just gone up, panels will be fitted on Saturday.


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

Hebe said:


> That must be a relief after the various delays! Our scaffolding has just gone up, panels will be fitted on Saturday.



Yeh it is….lost out on some seriously good solar days over the last fortnight. But all good now


----------



## Hebe (18 Oct 2022)

Yes, it’s beautiful today! Our initial installation date was the last week of June so I am just very relieved to have it all going in soon.


----------



## irw (18 Oct 2022)

Solar Panel men here now too!


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

Panels are all up, guys are having a cuppa and then we can flip the switch to power on and set-up the monitoring system.


----------



## fossyant (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> Panels are all up, guys are having a cuppa and then we can flip the switch to power on and set-up the monitoring system.



You do know it's now going to rain for 40 days and nights ! Always one.


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

fossyant said:


> You do know it's now going to rain for 40 days and nights ! Always one.



We are in wales fossy…….


----------



## kipster (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> We are in wales fossy…….



Well the positive is with the rain you'll get the panels will stay clean


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

All finished…….just need to set-up the growatt monitoring app now.


----------



## fossyant (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> We are in wales fossy…….



Have you seen the forecast ! I'm in Wales this weekend and it's going to be wet ! Probably extra Welsh Wet now you've got solar !


----------



## Milkfloat (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> All finished…….just need to set-up the growatt monitoring app now.



If you are like me you are monitoring and tweaking continually. Fingers crossed that once Octopus finally confirm that my export is being paid that I can simply leave it on one setting.


----------



## jowwy (18 Oct 2022)

fossyant said:


> Have you seen the forecast ! I'm in Wales this weekend and it's going to be wet ! Probably extra Welsh Wet now you've got solar !



You will be ok fossy…..


----------



## CXRAndy (18 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> Yeh it is….lost out on some seriously good solar days over the last fortnight. But all good now



No point dwelling on missed benefits. Bask in the knowledge of future savings on what looks like ever increasing energy costs


----------



## irw (18 Oct 2022)

All done!










Not quite sure why the second one came out so dark...literally took it two minutes after the first!

Just waiting for them to do the necessary behind the scenes stuff to get the app working now!


----------



## CXRAndy (18 Oct 2022)

You're taking a picture into the sun direction. Everything is will be darker due to iris closing more. You could edit and over expose the photo settings


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

My app is all fired up and working now....happy bunny, if only it wasn't grey and raining @fossyant fault for coming to wales for a break lol


----------



## Phaeton (19 Oct 2022)

Don't believe everything the Shineapp tells you, it's not the best but gives a good all round view, sort of.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Don't believe everything the Shineapp tells you, it's not the best but gives a good all round view, sort of.



yeh i notice already its different to what my smart meter is telling me, but it will help to give me a view of what's happening.

I'm thinking of setting the app up on my spare tablet and having it downstairs in the kitchen, so i can see what's happening when using cooker, washing machine etc etc


----------



## kipster (19 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> yeh i notice already its different to what my smart meter is telling me, but it will help to give me a view of what's happening.
> 
> I'm thinking of setting the app up on my spare tablet and having it downstairs in the kitchen, so i can see what's happening when using cooker, washing machine etc etc



The data only updates every 5 minutes so I find it's not all that helpful for what's happening realtime


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> The data only updates every 5 minutes so I find it's not all that helpful for what's happening realtime



yeh i noticed its a bit slow....


----------



## Phaeton (19 Oct 2022)

I'm trying to work out if it would now be cost effective to get a 2nd battery, I can see a single battery being fine during the summer months, but going forward now the battery is getting 100% charged during the day but being drained quite a bit whilst the evening meal is being cooked, which then does not have time to recover as the sun has already gone down.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I'm trying to work out if it would now be cost effective to get a 2nd battery, I can see a single battery being fine during the summer months, but going forward now the battery is getting 100% charged during the day but being drained quite a bit whilst the evening meal is being cooked, which then does not have time to recover as the sun has already gone down.



im hoping the selling back of KW's to the grid via octopus outging at 15p will cancel out energy used in the evenings, without paying huge amounts for battery storage


----------



## Phaeton (19 Oct 2022)

Do you have the Octopus smart meter, do you know the number they show for the cost of energy that day includes the daily charge, or is it just the actual usage? Ours is below £2 most days so I can live with £60-70 a month, but suspect they'll be another £30 on top for sanding charges


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

My smart meter does not even show two different tariffs on Octopus. Regarding batteries, I have 6.2 kWh in batteries and was thinking about another, but so far seem to be able to last easily until my cheap rate kicks in at 12.30am. However, I do wonder if that will still be the case if they are not full at 4pm when it gets dark.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Not bad for a 3.2kw system on a damp, cloudy day in october


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Do you have the Octopus smart meter, do you know the number they show for the cost of energy that day includes the daily charge, or is it just the actual usage? Ours is below £2 most days so I can live with £60-70 a month, but suspect they'll be another £30 on top for sanding charges



it includes the daily charge......as midnight strikes the daily usage resets to 47p and then starts to accrue on top of that as you use electric

caveat - the 47p daily charge is my charge, others maybe more or less


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

This is me on a split array.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> View attachment 665130
> 
> 
> This is me on a split array.



so around 2.7kw on what size system??


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> so around 2.7kw on what size system??



6.4, but I have not seen anything above 3.4kW which is understandable as I am split East and West and the inverter is only rated to 3.6kW. Th system was installed about 5 weeks ago, so I have not seen a really sunny day.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> 6.4, but I have not seen anything above 3.4kW which is understandable as I am split East and West and the inverter is only rated to 3.6kW. Th system was installed about 5 weeks ago, so I have not seen a really sunny day.



makes sense......still good figures tho


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> 6.4, but I have not seen anything above 3.4kW which is understandable as I am split East and West and the inverter is only rated to 3.6kW. Th system was installed about 5 weeks ago, so I have not seen a really sunny day.



how is the octopus outgoing tarif going milky???


----------



## Milkfloat (19 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> how is the octopus outgoing tarif going milky???



Unknown - I don't even know if it is setup fully as my account is not showing me a huge amount. I am reluctant to query it until I get my first bill as I am not supposed to have Octopus Outgoing in conjunction is Octopus Go. At least they are taking meter readings for the outgoing.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> The data only updates every 5 minutes so I find it's not all that helpful for what's happening realtime



are growatts servers always down……not got any data since half 2


----------



## kipster (19 Oct 2022)

They are usually ok. It will all catchup.

I couldn't get data from 2:30 for a little while but it's all ok now.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> They are usually ok. It will all catchup.
> 
> I couldn't get data from 2:30 for a little while but it's all ok now.



Im not getting any at all since 2:30 and now says im disconnected


----------



## kipster (19 Oct 2022)

Try on their web site

https://server.growatt.com/


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> Try on their web site
> 
> https://server.growatt.com/



As soon as i click that on the ipad it just goes to the app…….but both apps on phone and ipad as me as disconnected, im guessing its because im not producing any solar as its pretty thick dark clouds around here right now


----------



## kipster (19 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> As soon as i click that on the ipad it just goes to the app…….but both apps on phone and ipad as me as disconnected, im guessing its because im not producing any solar as its pretty thick dark clouds around here right now



You should still be able to get into the app and look at the data regardless of solar production.


----------



## jowwy (19 Oct 2022)

kipster said:


> You should still be able to get into the app and look at the data regardless of solar production.



Yeh im suddenly back online again now and all data has updated, maybe a few gremlins with the new system


----------



## Phaeton (20 Oct 2022)

Looks like it could be my first no production day in 2 months, it's grey & miserable here, the weather is much the same


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Looks like it could be my first no production day in 2 months, it's grey & miserable here, the weather is much the same



it was grey and miserable here yesterday and we produced 6.1kwh on our first day of production.......


----------



## Alex321 (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Looks like it could be my first no production day in 2 months, it's grey & miserable here, the weather is much the same



Even on a cloudy day, you should produce *something*. Though right now, ours is only producing 280W. Though that is still charging the battery (slowly!), as we are only using 120W. Most of which is probably the screen connected to my laptop.


----------



## Phaeton (20 Oct 2022)

Yeah actually I was/am wrong, it's producing something, it was charging the battery a little after our usage, but just switched the laptop charger on & that has now stopped


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Yeah actually I was/am wrong, it's producing something, it was charging the battery a little after our usage, but just switched the laptop charger on & that has now stopped



we are just hitting 500watts now.....and it still pretty cloudy out


----------



## Phaeton (20 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> we are just hitting 500watts now.....and it still pretty cloudy out



It says we've only produced 0.1kWh all day, I do hope I have the correct acronym I don't want to upset the pendants


----------



## kipster (20 Oct 2022)

I've only done 3.1kWh today, but the rain has just stopped and there is some blue sky about so I'm hoping to get a little bit more.


----------



## Milkfloat (20 Oct 2022)

1.2 kWh for me today from a 6.4 kWh system, I don't think my batteries will last until cheap electricity tonight. I am on 72% and my daughter has just surfaced from her bed so I suspect it is going to dip quickly.


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> It says we've only produced 0.1kWh all day, I do hope I have the correct acronym I don't want to upset the pendants



1.8kwh for me


----------



## Tom... (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> It says we've only produced 0.1kWh all day, I do hope I have the correct acronym I don't want to upset the pendants



I hate to be pedantic, but it's not an acronym


----------



## Alex321 (20 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> It says we've only produced 0.1kWh all day, I do hope I have the correct acronym I don't want to upset the pendants



The Solaredge app gives that in what seems to me to be a rather odd way.

Anything going into the battery isn't counted as "production". It only counts as production when it is consumed or exported. But that then includes anything consumed from the battery.

So if your battery was low at the start of the day, it will be showing "production" as far less than the panels have actually generated, and then that "production" will continue to increase after it is dark, when you are drawing power from the battery.


----------



## cougie uk (20 Oct 2022)

Just had my quote from the council run solar panel auction. 

6.5k for 12 panels etc

5k for a 7kwh battery or 6k for a 10kwh battery. 

Doesn't sound too bad to me ?


----------



## MrGrumpy (20 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Just had my quote from the council run solar panel auction.
> 
> 6.5k for 12 panels etc
> 
> ...



That’s about going rate for my area , albeit one or two have taken the piss .


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Just had my quote from the council run solar panel auction.
> 
> 6.5k for 12 panels etc
> 
> ...



12 panels of what wattage???


----------



## CXRAndy (20 Oct 2022)

What warranty on panels and batteries also inverter


----------



## cougie uk (20 Oct 2022)

Warranty is 10 years on workmanship and products.


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

So we got 3.3kwh in the end today……..


----------



## kipster (20 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> So we got 3.3kwh in the end today……..



We got 9.1kWh today, a bit of sun this afternoon helped, but a fairly poor day overall.


----------



## Milkfloat (20 Oct 2022)

Just 4.1 kWh for me, a very grey day.


----------



## Jenkins (20 Oct 2022)

Just out of interest I stuck my details into the East Suffolk Council linked supplier earlier today and it came back with the follwing quote




I don't know the size of the panels, their output or the size of my roof before anyone asks, but a later quote using a different email address and a guessed roof size of 6m x 3m suggested 6 panels with a total price of abour £8300, but I didn't save that one andthe house is ESE/WNW orientated. 
I'm not sure it's worth it being a very low user - even in winter I'm only using about 160kWh per month, although this will probably increase now I'm part retired.


----------



## jowwy (20 Oct 2022)

Jenkins said:


> Just out of interest I stuck my details into the East Suffolk Council linked supplier earlier today and it came back with the follwing quote
> View attachment 665274
> 
> I don't know the size of the panels, their output or the size of my roof before anyone asks, but a later quote using a different email address and a guessed roof size of 6m x 3m suggested 6 panels with a total price of abour £8300, but I didn't save that one andthe house is ESE/WNW orientated.
> I'm not sure it's worth it being a very low user - even in winter I'm only using about 160kWh per month, although this will probably increase now I'm part retired.



Im a low user like yourself at between 150/160kwh a month……but its the price of those units a month that convinced me in the end to get a 3.2kwh system put on the roof, but no battery. The system will cover daytime loads and any excess sell back to the grid, to offset evening and nightime use. I went against a battery for now to keep the costs down.


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

Dont think today is going to be a solar day lol.......

Should we start a solar production thread and keep this one as solar panel advice, just a thought???


----------



## Phaeton (21 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> Should we start a solar production thread and keep this one as solar panel advice, just a thought???



Probably a good idea, we also may need a are my panels f**ked thread, pretty sure something is wrong with my system, may have to do a reboot, it was only showing producing 20w for most of the day yesterday with a total of 0.2kWh, it's still showing the same 20w today, yet it's a lot brighter & I would have expected on past experience to be 100w at least.


----------



## Phaeton (21 Oct 2022)

Switched off my panels, switched off the inverter, switched on inverter, switched on panels, now producing 180w maybe I should have done that yesterday


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Switched off my panels, switched off the inverter, switched on inverter, switched on panels, now producing 180w maybe I should have done that yesterday



That doesn't sound like a good system, if that is something you are likely to have to do 

It should handle any errors automatically.


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Switched off my panels, switched off the inverter, switched on inverter, switched on panels, now producing 180w maybe I should have done that yesterday



yeh i wouldnt want to be going into my attic to reset things.....but on my app, there is an alarm function that would alert me of issues on the system


----------



## Phaeton (21 Oct 2022)

No idea if it was the right thing to do or not, but it had been on 20W since yesterday morning, no alarms on it, but it appears to have done the trick, it's now producing 200w which for the grey day seems about right. 

TBH it was one of the reasons I don't like to have anything electronic installed in the loft, they always need reseting at some point, I have our router, a switch, a networked HDD all up in the loft & they are a RPITA after a powercut.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> No idea if it was the right thing to do or not, but it had been on 20W since yesterday morning, no alarms on it, but it appears to have done the trick, it's now producing 200w which for the grey day seems about right.
> 
> TBH it was one of the reasons I don't like to have anything electronic installed in the loft, they always need reseting at some point, I have our router, a switch, a networked HDD all up in the loft & they are a RPITA after a powercut.



Our inverter, battery etc are all outside. Originally we were thinking of having them in the garage, but when they looked at the location of our meter (opposite end of the house), it was decided it made more sense to put them on the outside of pine end wall.


----------



## Phaeton (21 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our inverter, battery etc are all outside. Originally we were thinking of having them in the garage, but when they looked at the location of our meter (opposite end of the house), it was decided it made more sense to put them on the outside of pine end wall.



All our stuff is under the stairs which is accessed from the utility room, so that when it all catches fire the first thing that burns is our escape route.


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> All our stuff is under the stairs which is accessed from the utility room, so that when it all catches fire the first thing that burns is our escape route.



On a serious note

Id be cladding that cupboard in fire retardant board and installing a heat alarm connected to the main fire alarms


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Oct 2022)

After receiving planning I've put the enquiries out to 10 companies locally yesterday. Four have already replied, one arranged site visit for next week. Lets see what they come up with.


----------



## T4tomo (21 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Our inverter, battery etc are all outside. Originally we were thinking of having them in the garage, but when they looked at the location of our meter (opposite end of the house), it was decided it made more sense to put them on the outside of pine end wall.



How big is all that Gubbins and does it need to be near the meter? My meter is outside on the side wall, but hat is a narrow-ish side return to the back garden so wouldn't want that blocking. House lack storage, but does as a single story extension out the back, so sticking it on the roof of that would make sense. or is it the sort of stuff you could bolt to the outside side wall above head height so you don't restrict access?


----------



## Phaeton (21 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> installing a heat alarm connected to the main fire alarms


We'd have to the have fire alarms fitted first, oh how dangerously we live


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

T4tomo said:


> How big is all that Gubbins and does it need to be near the meter? My meter is outside on the side wall, but hat is a narrow-ish side return to the back garden so wouldn't want that blocking. House lack storage, but does as a single story extension out the back, so sticking it on the roof of that would make sense. or is it the sort of stuff you could bolt to the outside side wall above head height so you don't restrict access?



It is also a fairly narrow side-return to the garden in our case, with a gravel base.

Everything but the battery is at or above head height. It doesn't stick out all that much - less than a foot for most of it, probably about a foot for the battery. It could all have been bolted to the wall above head height, apart from the battery, but then you would need ladders to access it all when needed - not that I expect to be accessing any of it myself anyhow. 

The battery does have to be on a solid base - we had to get a couple of paving slabs for it to rest on.

Ours is probably about 15' from the meter. It doesn't have to be close, but it is less hassle with routing cables if it is reasonably close. 

This shows the size of the side passage where the solar stuff is now installed (estate agent photo from before we bought)


----------



## T4tomo (21 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> This shows the size of the side passage where the solar stuff is now installed (estate agent photo from before we bought)



its almost invisible 

I realise you are probably at work, but a photo of the gubbins would be good in due course


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> After receiving planning I've put the enquiries out to 10 companies locally yesterday. Four have already replied, one arranged site visit for next week. Lets see what they come up with.



why did you need planning permission?? im guessing thats what you meant


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

T4tomo said:


> its almost invisible
> 
> I realise you are probably at work, but a photo of the gubbins would be good in due course



I'll try to get a photo over the weekend. 

But at the moment we have all our patio chairs put away for the winter (which means down that passage with a cover over them), and we decided to lean two of hem against the battery and cover bot chairs and battery with one cover (battery doesn't need covering, but we thought it wouldn't hurt).


----------



## Milkfloat (21 Oct 2022)

This is what mine looks like. Inverter on the wall with 3 isolation switches and a meter that is not really needed except to satisfy regs. The two batteries are on the floor. The pile off stuff on the floor to the left is spare cables and manuals. Since this photo I fitted a power socket in case of power cuts so at least I can run my router and some lights via and extension cable.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> why did you need planning permission?? im guessing thats what you meant



There are some areas where planning permission is required for almost anything. Until 2020, we lived inside the Brecon Beacons National Park, and we needed planning permission even to change the windows for double glazed ones (our house was not a listed building). I'm pretty sure we would have needed it for solar there as well.


----------



## kipster (21 Oct 2022)

Mine is all in an upstairs box room.

It was the easiest place to put it all for wiring from the panels and to the consumer unit. It's also out of the way and the room is used for storing junk.


----------



## T4tomo (21 Oct 2022)

cheers. its smaller than I thought actually


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> There are some areas where planning permission is required for almost anything. Until 2020, we lived inside the Brecon Beacons National Park, and we needed planning permission even to change the windows for double glazed ones (our house was not a listed building). I'm pretty sure we would have needed it for solar there as well.



No……were do you think i live???


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> why did you need planning permission?? im guessing thats what you meant



I went with a ground array. I'd needed to repair the shed roof, that and the extra scaffolding cost. Its a large array - 80kW We run 3 Evs so would like to have the ability to fully charge from solar.


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I went with a ground array. I'd needed to repair the shed roof, that and the extra scaffolding cost. Its a large array - 80kW We run 3 Evs so would like to have the ability to fully charge from solar.



Thats a big array, top man for building that……would love to see when its done


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> No……were do you think i live???



I have no idea. I was just giving one possible answer as to why CrxAndy *may* have needed planning permission (not the actual reason as it turns out).

I wasn't for one moment suggesting you might - you were asking why he did.


----------



## jowwy (21 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I have no idea. I was just giving one possible answer as to why CrxAndy *may* have needed planning permission (not the actual reason as it turns out).
> 
> I wasn't for one moment suggesting you might - you were asking why he did.



i was asking, due to you stating about the brecon beacons national park……i live within the park.

But yeh andys system is going to be pretty big.


----------



## Alex321 (21 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> i was asking, due to you stating about the brecon beacons national park……i live within the park.
> 
> But yeh andys system is going to be pretty big.



Ah. Didn't know you live in the Beacons, I just knew it was South Wales.

For 20 years until December 2019, I lived between Merthyr and Ponststicill, about a mile (by road) inside the National Park boundary.

And I'm pretty sure we would have needed planning permission for roof mounted panels early on in our ownership. Looking at the current documentation, that seems to have changed in the last 10 years or so, as long as you are not in one of the conservation areas or are a listed building or a couple of other situations). For most now, the same rules for permitted development of microgeneration equipment apply as in the rest of Wales.


----------



## Hebe (22 Oct 2022)

Panels went up today but we’re missing a component so everything should be finished and live on Wednesday.


----------



## jowwy (23 Oct 2022)

Hebe said:


> Panels went up today but we’re missing a component so everything should be finished and live on Wednesday.



What part was missing?..


----------



## CXRAndy (23 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> What part was missing?..



Sun


----------



## Hebe (23 Oct 2022)

jowwy said:


> What part was missing?..


A master controller of some sort. He's picking it up first thing Wednesday. We've now got 14 panels up, battery and inverter/ev charger in place, just needs this last bit before the big switch on 🤞And yes, we need sunshine too. Though even if that doesn't happen it will be good to charge the car more quickly and without a house door open for the cable.


----------



## Phaeton (24 Oct 2022)

Threatened my installer with Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act this morning, given them 10 working days to get the install finished or I will start proceedings to get my money back.


----------



## Buck (24 Oct 2022)

What are you waiting for?

What was their response?


----------



## Alex321 (24 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Threatened my installer with Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act this morning, given them 10 working days to get the install finished or I will start proceedings to get my money back.



There was a massive delay with us before getting the battery and the Eddi immersion controller installed, but we didn't pay for those parts of the system until they were.

You've paid for it with your credit card? Section 75 only applies to Credit Card purchases.


----------



## Phaeton (24 Oct 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Section 75 only applies to Credit Card purchases.


I know hence why I used it


----------



## Phaeton (24 Oct 2022)

Buck said:


> What are you waiting for?
> 
> What was their response?


It to be completed, installation date was 14th August

They didn't have the datalogger when it was first installed, then a couple of weeks later they did, but couldn't access it as they didn't have a Installer code, in the end I contacted Growatt who provided me one, which I am still using.

It then didn't work with the Growatt battery as they had thrown away the small terminators that needed putting into the battery network ports so that the battery knew it was the only one there. I ended contacting a Growatt installer in London who generously sent me 2 free in the post, which as soon as I fitted them got the system sort of working.

The battery then charged overnight from the grid, so again I contacted Growatt support, who changed the configuration form battery first to load first (I think)

The single CT clamp was put in the wrong connecting cables

The second CT clamp is still outstanding, the system will not correctly fully function until it has been fitted, been promised this since end of August

I have no MCSE certifications

I have no DNO certifications

As I don't have the above 2, I am giving my excess to Octopus for free

I have no bird netting (trivial & in this area not sure it's necessary)

I was sold the system on the specific requirement that it would be seamless in the event of a power cut, we had a power cut, the system shut down!

I am emailing them on each Monday & Friday morning, I'm no longer getting a response.

But apart from that I'm very happy with the installation.


----------



## Buck (24 Oct 2022)

Sounds like an installer that has jumped on the band wagon and not skilled in solar?

Good luck sorting - sounds a bit of a mess


----------



## Phaeton (24 Oct 2022)

Buck said:


> Sounds like an installer that has jumped on the band wagon and not skilled in solar?
> 
> Good luck sorting - sounds a bit of a mess



One of the advantages of its a local company 5 miles & also a subsidiary of an even closer main company 3 miles so banging on door & talking to the directors is an option. One of which lives less than 1 mile away.


----------



## jowwy (24 Oct 2022)

Phaeton said:


> One of the advantages of its a local company 5 miles & also a subsidiary of an even closer main company 3 miles so banging on door & talking to the directors is an option. One of which lives less than 1 mile away.



Id be starting to bang on that door


----------



## Hebe (25 Oct 2022)

Solar people have the part and are here again. Hopefully this will be job done today 🤞


----------



## classic33 (25 Oct 2022)

Hebe said:


> Solar people have the part and are here again. Hopefully this will be job done today 🤞


It's Tuesday!


----------



## Hebe (25 Oct 2022)

classic33 said:


> It's Tuesday!



Yes! The part came in early and the job they were meant to be doing today wasn't ready for them. So they came here instead. I keep checking my solar app to see if the needle has moved off zero yet.


----------



## Hebe (25 Oct 2022)

Well it's in, and seems to be working better than the monitoring app, which currently shows us exporting to the grid several hours after sunset whilst simultaneously not generating anything. The installer is coming back tomorrow to talk us through it all. He did say that the monitoring app could take 24 hours to sort itself out.


----------



## Hebe (26 Oct 2022)

Finally 🤞 
Our monitoring app was showing some really odd stuff last night after our system went live mid afternoon. It was showing us exporting power after dark (we weren’t). Our battery discharged itself during the day then recharged from the grid after dark, then stubbornly refused to discharge any power to run the house overnight (not how we wanted it to work). Then we lost all the metrics except for real time. I was not happy, given that solar was meant to be saving us money and yesterday’s electric usage from the grid was much higher than normal. The installer noticed the weirdness and arranged to come back round today to sort it all out. It all seems much better now. The battery is behaving as it should, the export is more sensible and the grid usage much lower. I wondered if our meter was broken this morning because the reading hadn’t changed in two hours, but it was just that the solar was covering all our usage. Tomorrow will be interesting as I don’t know if we’ll have enough sun to recharge the battery. Lots to learn!

Anyway. We have a SolarEdge system comprising 14 x 395Wp panels on a south facing roof, a 9.7kwh battery, and an inverter/EV charger. On a 2 year fix from last October, it’s a flat rate tariff not time of use. Plagued by supply chain issues - original installation date was back in June - and we’ve ended up with a slightly better specced system than we expected as a result. If everything is stable tomorrow I’ll call Ovo and see what we need to do to kick off registering for the export payments, though my plan is to use as much as we can ourselves. We need some paperwork from our installers too so I’m guessing it won’t be a fast process.


----------



## mistyoptic (26 Oct 2022)

Parents in Law had a system fitted under a Nottingham council scheme (fully funded for pensioners and other qualifying persons). It was a two section job on two aspects of the roof. 

Surveyor just been back to check the installation. They’d already had “satisfaction surveys” and innocently said it was fine. 

Surveyor discovered that only one bank of panels has been connected to the inverter, other side the wires are still coiled inside the roof 🙄

Quality eh?


----------



## CXRAndy (26 Oct 2022)

mistyoptic said:


> Parents in Law had a system fitted under a Nottingham council scheme (fully funded for pensioners and other qualifying persons). It was a two section job on two aspects of the roof.
> 
> Surveyor just been back to check the installation. They’d already had “satisfaction surveys” and innocently said it was fine.
> 
> ...



What Muppets. So no one did a proper sign off check


----------



## Phaeton (27 Oct 2022)

But at least there was somebody coming round & checking, not just paying the invoice, the council at least needs credit for that.


----------



## MrGrumpy (28 Oct 2022)

So deposit paid on a 5Kw array and 10Kw battery. Used my CC just in case it all goes a bit wrong. Not sure when install will be but probably start of next year. Also put my loan request in to energy trust Scotland .


----------



## Phaeton (28 Oct 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> So deposit paid on a 5Kw array and 10Kw battery. Used my CC just in case it all goes a bit wrong. Not sure when install will be but probably start of next year. Also put my loan request in to energy trust Scotland .


You'll be covered on the loan as well, you don't own it until the final payment is made so they will be fighting in your corner IF it didn't go well.


----------



## Phaeton (1 Nov 2022)

Installer back today, he's already sorted out the required extra CT clamp so the inverter knows what is being generated by the PV & direct it accordingly. Not sure really how accurate these are, as logically I shouldn't be pulling anything from the grid if my load is only 0.32kW, I'm producing 2.37kW, the 0.06kW from the grid could be over a 5 minute time period







He's gone off to the wholesalers to get the changeover circuitry so potentially later today or tomorrow the only thing we will be waiting for is the DNO, oh & the bird netting which I have agreed can wait, as long as they don't mind waiting to get their last £1K


----------



## Alex321 (1 Nov 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Installer back today, he's already sorted out the required extra CT clamp so the inverter knows what is being generated by the PV & direct it accordingly. Not sure really how accurate these are, as logically I shouldn't be pulling anything from the grid if my load is only 0.32kW, I'm producing 2.37kW, the 0.06kW from the grid could be over a 5 minute time period
> 
> View attachment 666609
> 
> ...



Your system has to check that there is energy available from the grid, and that seems to draw a small current.

Mine has shown an import of between 0.28kWh and 0.49kWh every day since we have had the battery, even though there have not been any days we have exhausted the battery.


----------



## Buck (1 Nov 2022)

As I understand it, you may pull from the grid when you get a spike in demand and the inverter is not able to react quickly enough to pull from battery or solar so it “defaults” to grid


----------



## kipster (1 Nov 2022)

My panels stayed in place through storm Claudio last night. I'm sure there will be stiffer tests to come over the autumn and winter.

I think the winds got to 50mph where we are (inland).


----------



## Phaeton (1 Nov 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Your system has to check that there is energy available from the grid, and that seems to draw a small current.
> 
> Mine has shown an import of between 0.28kWh and 0.49kWh every day since we have had the battery, even though there have not been any days we have exhausted the battery.



I think there is lot of aggregation going on, as the amount shown on the PV inverter (which in itself maybe aggregated over a time period) is not always the same as on the battery inverter.

Annoyingly we had some lovely sunshine whilst he was fiddling with the system, now he's finished the first part the sun has gone in


----------



## Phaeton (14 Nov 2022)

Smart Meters have stopped reporting back to Octopus so I manually read them this morning, the gas is a real pain, have to lay on the floor to do it. But then about an hour later I got this email which is quite pleasing apart from the amount I currently have with them.


----------



## Phaeton (16 Nov 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Smart Meters have stopped reporting back to Octopus so I manually read them this morning, the gas is a real pain, have to lay on the floor to do it. But then about an hour later I got this email which is quite pleasing apart from the amount I currently have with them.
> 
> View attachment 668011



I thought I had posted this in the Energy Bill Increases thread but clearly not, our Smart not being very Smart have decided to stop talking to Octopus, so the other day I manually uploaded meter readings, unfortunately I gave them the Export number 134 instead of the Import number 334 that you see above  We're £60 poorer now, but still not bad, I wonder if Octopus will back pay us for the 134 which will mean £20 back to us.

On another theme, I was in contact again today with the DNO it's 45 working days since it was submitted, the maximum that Ofgen allow, it has been agreed & a letter attached to an email sent to my installer, advising it is approved & that a fee of £365+vat is payable, not sure whether they will release the MPAN number I need to the installer before they receive the payment or not.


----------



## jowwy (16 Nov 2022)

Phaeton said:


> I thought I had posted this in the Energy Bill Increases thread but clearly not, our Smart not being very Smart have decided to stop talking to Octopus, so the other day I manually uploaded meter readings, unfortunately I gave them the Export number 134 instead of the Import number 334 that you see above  We're £60 poorer now, but still not bad,* I wonder if Octopus will back pay us for the 134 which will mean £20 back to us.*
> 
> On another theme, I was in contact again today with the DNO it's 45 working days since it was submitted, the maximum that Ofgen allow, it has been agreed & a letter attached to an email sent to my installer, advising it is approved & that a fee of £365+vat is payable, not sure whether they will release the MPAN number I need to the installer before they receive the payment or not.



no they won't, but i did ask that question myself lol


----------



## MrGrumpy (23 Nov 2022)

Got an install date of the 18th Jan . Hoping the energy trust loan comes through !


----------



## jowwy (24 Nov 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Got an install date of the 18th Jan . Hoping the energy trust loan comes through !



just in time for the snow, but at least closer to the spring lol


----------



## cougie uk (24 Nov 2022)

My survey is booked for next week ! Woohoo !


----------



## Phaeton (19 Dec 2022)

cougie uk said:


> My survey is booked for next week ! Woohoo !



How did it go. have you jumped for it, or looking for other quotes?

I eventually got fed up of my installer the other day & went to the office, to ask where my Export number was, not that it's much use currently, they had the email with the form & thought the DNO had also sent it direct to me so hadn't forwarded it on. I now have a copy which has been uploaded to Octopus.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (19 Dec 2022)

SOlar not my favourite thing at the moment

We FINALLY had the batteries installed about 8 weeks ago
since then they have gone from about 50% charged to ZERO - flat nothing
I know that the sun has been a bit dim but the BMS should keep them above zero

also - as far as I can tell the system has also not exported a single watt to the grid since the batteries were installed

Installers are normally quite responsive but they couldn;t find what was wrong - got me to restart a few things
and we found that everything had somehow reset
I sorted out the wifi connection and it all started connecting again
but the installers couldn;t get it working properly
they said they had to refer it to Fox and would get back to me

that was over 2 weeks ago

anyway - in the meantime we are having the loft boarded - and the workmen accidentally caused a leak
as a reult I switched off the power to the whole house - the water dripping from a celing light upstairs makes me over-react sometimes!

after all that was sorted out I switched off all the solar stuff and switched it back on properly and magically the panels are working now
even exporting a small amount to the grid


but batteries still flat zero

Loft boarding should be finished today - all delayed due to leaks and stuff - so I will have to get back to the installer this afternoon and play hell with them about ignoring the problems!!!


----------



## Phaeton (19 Dec 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Installers are normally quite responsive but they couldn;t find what was wrong - got me to restart a few things
> and we found that everything had somehow reset
> I sorted out the wifi connection and it all started connecting again
> but the installers couldn;t get it working properly
> they said they had to refer it to Fox and would get back to me



No idea of Fox, but my Growatt inverter/charger has a panel where you can decide where you want the PV current to go, mine is on load first, so we use whatever we're producing & then only when what's coming in exceeds the the load does it go to the battery.

There is another panel you can go to to change all of this, do you have something similiar?


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (19 Dec 2022)

I can change it to "Force Charge" on the app which will, if necessary, use the grid to charge the batteries.
Not normally relevant to us but useful if you have cheaper energy at certain times of the day

Of course, with the windter saving schemes it could be useful

And I think the installers tried setting it at one point but it doesn;t seem to have charged the battery

I would assume that the BMS would also use this to trickle a small amount of charge into the battery in order to keep its charge level above critical
But this seems to be the area where the fault is - the batteries just don;t seem to charge!

anyway - I have rung up and moaned - we shall see whether or not they react


----------



## MrGrumpy (19 Dec 2022)

My application for the energy trust loan ( Sco Gov ) has been excepted ! Just waiting on paper work which is gonna be nervy as my employer has decided that is not as important as parcels now  . Anyway had my install date booked in for the middle of Jan next year !


----------



## Phaeton (21 Dec 2022)

Applied for Octopus Outgoing last week, today I got this email, yes it is from them it's on my account on the website it starts

"Your electricity switch is officially complete. Congratulations - you're now a customer with Octopus Energy."

Which is weird as I've been a customer for the past 4 months, I also have the exact some email from the 16th August.

So have I got this email as Export has now been enabled, where do I find it on the account as it's not jumping off the page at me?


----------



## jowwy (21 Dec 2022)

Phaeton said:


> Applied for Octopus Outgoing last week, today I got this email, yes it is from them it's on my account on the website it starts
> 
> "Your electricity switch is officially complete. Congratulations - you're now a customer with Octopus Energy."
> 
> ...



you should have 3 accounts - electric x 2 and gas x 1 on the accounts page

they use the same email and set-up as if you was a new customer, i was told to just ignore the emails and wait for the account to appear on my screen


----------



## cougie uk (21 Dec 2022)

Phaeton said:


> How did it go. have you jumped for it, or looking for other quotes?
> 
> I eventually got fed up of my installer the other day & went to the office, to ask where my Export number was, not that it's much use currently, they had the email with the form & thought the DNO had also sent it direct to me so hadn't forwarded it on. I now have a copy which has been uploaded to Octopus.



We've jumped on it. Price seemed decent and the guys were very professional too. 

Probably getting installed some time in January now.


----------

