# Which Bike!??! Help please!!



## pkeenan (4 Apr 2011)

Hello! This is my first time on this forum, and I'm coming to you all in need of advice!

I'm currently in the market for a expedition bike (yes, full expedition!) and have narrowed this down to 3 main contenders. See what you think and I' be grateful for any comments. 

All of them will be equipped with a Rohloff hub, butterfly handle bars, SKS mud guards, tubus racks. 

(In no particular order!)

KOGA-MIYATA Traveller KS-TR 28

This will clock in at around £3000 , but will no doubt be worth every penny. This bike has been specd with a SONdelux front and Son Led eDelux front light (a whopping 80lux light) [The rear light is able to be fixed up with a dynamo, but I don't think it can be with the Rohloff in place at the back?], a Brooks B17, and Shimano hydraulic disc brakes. 700c wheels, Schwalbe Marathons, and an aluminum frame (which could have my name on it if I wanted!). 


SANTOS Travelmaster 2.8 Alu http://www.santosbik...elmaster-28-alu

This is another epic and awesome bike from Holland. It'll cost £2800, which is a fair bit cheaper than the Koga, however: it doesn't have as good a dynamo hub, or dynamo light (ie - cheaper, heavier, not as powerful, and not as efficient). This isn't a massive deal for me - how much riding will I end up doing at night anyways?! But the idea is that this will be the Bike Of My Life. I can spec this up almost exactly the same as the Koga above - *apart from the brakes*. This is one of the big problems I'm having with this bike - even if I didn't want discs on this for now, there isn't even the option to change - which I'm not massively happy about... 

QOROZ Expedition Won http://www.qoroz.co.uk/expedition-won/

WOW. If you haven't come across this bike company yet - check them out. This bike will fetch the highest price (no cheaper than £3600). It's basically still in development, however I spoke to Chris from qoroz on the phone, who says he reckons that the production model will be available by July. 
This will be a titanium frame - twice the strength of aluminum, half as light. Made by someone who once inspected components from planes and propeller blades that were made with this element. 
This bike could be set up in exactly the same way as I have specced for the KOGA (with disc brakes!), but will cost infinetly more...  but seriously - I would never need another bike. In my life. It would be the ulitimate machine.

So there's the stuff about the 3 bikes I've narrowed down - here's a tiny bit more background:

I'll be getting the KOGA from Cyclesense, Tadcaster - the leading dealer for KOGA in the UK. This will no doubt be a great experience, though what I haven't yet worked out is whether I am going to have to pay an extra fee on top of the actual bike.... 

Both the Santos and Qoroz would come through MSG Bikes, Lancing. Alasdair and Shenagh Scadding run this, and are considered The People for buying bikes from, particularly expedition bikes. 

The Qoroz would be amazing - but there's no certainty as to whether I can even get it in the coming months. I could wait, of course - but I was really hoping to have this for the summer. Chris from Qoroz says July is realistic, but Alasdair from MSG says there is no certain time scale for this bike. Do I wait or do I just leave it?!

The Santos is the cheapest, and the one I can't spec in the way I want. But these very bikes are extremely good - round the world cyclists use it (James Bowthorpe for one, though he's now sponsored by qoroz..). 
If I were to get this bike, I'd get Alasdair Scadding's famous ergonomic bike fit. Part of me would like to go with this just for that reason... 

As you can see from the rambling nature of this post - I am really struggling to go with one over the other! They're all so good. The Koga is probably the safest option, the Santos is the cheapest and would be fitted by MSG, and the Qoroz is probably going to be The Bike Of The Future, and would also be fitted by MSG (Alasdair from MSG and Chris from Qoroz co-designed and built it). 

I'd really value working on the fit and customisation here in Britain, and furthermore if the actual bike was British - that'd be cool! But the Koga is a beauty.
My budget was £3000 - but as you can see, the temptation of the Qoroz has brought me to consider breaking that.... As I said - this is meant to be The Bike for the rest of my life, and I'm planning on doing a 28000 mile tour on it. 

Any help, anyone!?!?

Many thanks!!

p


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## Dave Davenport (4 Apr 2011)

Surprised you're not considering a Thorn Nomad or a Hewitt.


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## stephenjubb (4 Apr 2011)

so you need a bike for any area of the world, implied if you are doing 28,000 miles.

your breaking the rule of keeping it simple.

to me a most important part of any expedition is the ability to repair items.

I do not care for the alluminium/steel/titanium frame preference argument, all that matters is that I can get a steel frame repaired anywhere, titanium cannot (if it breaks your in real trouble as it needs specialist welding). I would go with steel but an alluminium frame built for strength could be used if one wishes, I just like self sufficiency.

I do not care for the 700c/26 inch wheel size debate, if I'm going world wide then 26inch as the parts are available everywhere.

Hyrolic brakes - can they be repaired in the field? Can you carry spare parts or easily available? If yes then these are good as rim wear is reduced.

Rohloff - a good bit of kit, supposedly never goes wrong, but if they do you may be waiting 1 or 2 weeks for a replacement. I personally prefer derailleurs - I can strip, repair and ease of availablity (ideally 8 speed for longer lasting).

I would go for none of them.

If you have the time it is better to get your own moutain bicycle frame designed with expedition touring in mind then choose your own components (with the comments in mind) for expedition use and build it yourself.

You then have your bicycle built by yourself with the knowledge of how to repair.

Quite often today especially in a technological rich society we end up with something too complex.

I suggest look on www.crazyguyonabike.com at every one who has world toured and look at their kit.

Every component you use needs to be justified for whereever you are going - why? so that you (I repeat you) are happy that the bike will meet your needs in all conditions, only then can you have confidence to undertake the trip.

I do know people will come on and give differing opinions on wheel size etc, this is good, helps one think and learn but the above paragraph must be stuck too after listening to everyones advise. Do this and you will be fine


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## pkeenan (4 Apr 2011)

Many thanks for the comments so far. 

I have looked at the Thorn Nomad - and hadn't discounted it I guess. I'm so indecisive about this whole thing, there will be hundreds of makes I've overlooked. 

I have actually been seriously looking at a Tour Terrain Silkroad, a steel frame which could indeed have the spec I want - I haven't ruled it out either. 

stephenjubb - I'm totally in agreement with your ideal that the bike ought to be repairable. However, I'm mainly going to be on paths and roads for the tour. 26" will be good too, though being a road cyclist, I guess I'm more drawn into the 700c, which I believe will be fine for this kind of tour provided the wheels are up to it. We'll see. 
Also with disc brakes, one can change the wheels from 26" to 700c and back provided there's enough ground clearance (which I know the Koga provides). I don't know whether the qoroz/santos can do that. 

I get your argument about the steel frame. The Santos do exactly the same bike in both aluminum as well as steel, so this is fine. The Koga is alu only. However, titanuim is *way* stronger than steel... Well - it is the same strength as steel but 45% lighter, and therefore it's strength to weight ratio is better. There's a reason that this is what they send to space, and have on aircraft where carbon isn't strong enough... 
Yes - it'll be harder to get repaired, but it's less likely to need repairing.

But you would go for none of them!!! Which is intriguing!! Both the Santos and the Koga have been used in recent round the world records, and Mark Beaumont used the Koga for a massive cycle down the Americas. They're obviously tough and able to hack the life of touring. 

Maybe the Tout Terrain Silkroad would be the better option!?


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## betty swollocks (4 Apr 2011)

With a Rohloff-equipped bike, have a look at:-
a) how is the chain kept taut?
b) how easy is it to tighten it?
c) how easy is it to get the rear wheel out and in again.
Thorn have got these issues nailed.
I'd go for a Thorn. But, I have a Thorn with Rohloff, so maybe I'm biased 

The Rohloff has done over 50,000 miles now with only and occasional oil, chain, chainring, sprocket change. Original ceramic rim too. Just does what it says on the tin and keeps getting better.


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## stephenjubb (4 Apr 2011)

for your budget I would look at bike friday pocket expedition folding bike

_A rugged folding bicycle for mountain biking and expedition touring.

http://www.bikefold.com/bike_friday_pocket_expedition.htm

not only has it all the advantages mentioned previously (it can be customised any way your like) with the trailer and right suitcase, around 7 kilos (not the standard one supplied by bike friday), the bike folds up and goes into the suitcase with the trailer.

This means easy airline/rail/bus/boat travel, no problems with keeping the bike in a hotel, with the right tent it will go inside, it adds a lot of security/portability options full size bikes don't have.

To save weight you could get titanium racks/titanium trailer and the weight comes even further. with your budget of 4500 US dollars they could supply anything you like.

you can skip the trailer and go for panniers, with a light bag you could fold it and put it inside and still have easy rail/bus/boat travel and hotel/tent security._


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## Moodyman (4 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Surprised you're not considering a Thorn Nomad or a Hewitt.



Fully agree. With your budget, you ideally want a custom-built steel from the above two. Also consider Roberts Roughstuff or Bob Jackson in Leeds.


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## andym (4 Apr 2011)

I agree with pretty much most of what Stephen Jubb said in his first post (don't particularly agree with him about folding bikes though), especially the trade-off between on the one hand 'fit-and-forget' components which are low-maintenance but if they go wrong you can't fix them and, on the other hand, components which require a bit more ongoing maintenance but which are easily fixed and/or replaced. 

Hydraulic brakes are very reliable, but personally I'd go for Avid BB7 cable brakes - slightly more ongoing maintenance but a bit more resilient - and a cable is easily fixed at the roadside while a leaking hydraulic system is a bit more involved (not impossible though). If you go for Avids with 203mm discs you definitely won't be sacrificing stopping power.

Titanium is lovely stuff, and if you were going for a top-end road touring bike then fine, but you said you were looking for an _expedition_ bike. I'm not sure that laying out a wodge of extra cash to save a few hundred grams is really worthwhile given the fact that if did break or crack you would n't be able to repair it. OK it's unlikely, and if the worst came to the worst you could ditch it and get a new frame, but even so ....

I'd also take a hardheaded look at prices. Bear in mind that the pound has collapsed against the euro - and I think the price of the Koga Miyata for example reflects that (I don't know about the others). I'm guessing that you are planning the trip of a lifetime and it's very easy to get lured into thinking that by spending more you are getting better - however, there comes a point at which you can be laying out more money for little real benefit. Before forking out a fortune on a bike I would sit down with a spreadsheet and spec a bike with the components you want.


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## pkeenan (4 Apr 2011)

andym - Good point about that - you are right that I am probably getting slightly engrossed, and not thinking money 

I also see your point about titanuim - but the whole point with this is not the weight, it's the sheer strength, which gives steel a run for its money. I'm defo not a man thinking about saving grams... Though, as you say, it wont be repaired in the event of a problem. Steel will.

Will check out the Avids. The hydraulics were never the important thing, more just the preservation of the rims - so a cable disc brake would be ideal - thanks for the heads up. 

With all that's been said so far, I'm considering the Tout Terrain Silkroad. A steel frame, which can take the discs. 
(Not so keen on the built in rack, though from what I've read it can take quite a load with ease.)

Thanks for the advice so far! This is the kind of stuff I've been needing to think about.


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## willem (4 Apr 2011)

Here is my list:
Rohloff: yes. It really is ueber reliable. I would prefer an excentric bottoim bracket to tension the chain.
SON hub and light: yes if you think you need one. The quality is superb, and the light output amazing. I would probably choouse the SON 28 rather than the SONdelux for a bike like this because it makes for a marginally stronger wheel, and has more output so you can also feeed an Ewerk. Feed the taillight from the hub (I don't understand your thing about the Rohloff being an issue here).
Frame material: my preference is for steel because of the ride quality. A good frame should not break, and to be honest high quality thin walled steel is not particularly rapairable in the field either. Probably harder than aluminium. Also, aluminium frames have a nasty habit to wear on the threads.
Wheel size: 26 inch, no discussion as far as I am concerned.
Brakes: Magura Hydraulic rim brakes. These have great modulation, are very convenient, and if you really cannot repair them, you can buy a cheap replacement v brake anywhere these days. Only: bring enough spare pads, and these are not easy to get.
Personally, I would go to a reputable UK frame builder and get a custom frame. 
Willem


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## pkeenan (4 Apr 2011)

Willem - that is extremely helpful. Thank you! 

I agree that a good frame should not break. Which brings me to think that everyone seems to talk about steel being necessary because it's repairable anywhere - but how many people have actually been in that situation? 

I have read loads of forums over the last few years, and never actually heard of someone having that happen to them.


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## vernon (4 Apr 2011)

Moodyman said:


> Fully agree. With your budget, you ideally want a custom-built steel from the above two. Also consider Roberts Roughstuff or Bob Jackson in Leeds.



Woodrups in Leeds as also worth looking at. They have a nice looking hand built expedition bike about to debut:

S&S couplings
Rohloff hub
Belt drive
Steel frame.

It looks the business and I've god a test ride pencilled in.


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## vernon (4 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Willem - that is extremely helpful. Thank you!
> 
> I agree that a good frame should not break. Which brings me to think that everyone seems to talk about steel being necessary because it's repairable anywhere - but how many people have actually been in that situation?



Me - twice.

The first time I got the frame repaired within an hour of failure which wasn't bad fior eight o'clock on a Friday night.
The second time I removed the Brooks B17 seat and abandoned the bike in Orleans having bought a Decathlon hybrid as a replacement.


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## willem (4 Apr 2011)

Well it does happen, but not often. In essence a well designed and well built touring frame should last at least 100000 km, and the same applies to the Rohloff and SON hubs. It may be wise to have those serviced completely after 50000 km, however. At that moment you may also want to replace things like the seatpost, the stem, and certainly the handlebar and all bolts. By that time you will also have had the wheels rebuilt at least once, and will have fitted new pedals at least once if not more. If you fit a top quality headset like Chris King and a bottom bracket like SKF or Phil Wood, these should last the life of the bike. I am not sure about the cranks (I might replace those half way as well), and I would certainly also replace the racks after 50000 km, if not before. Of course, you can use all this stuff until it breaks, but I am all in favour of preventive maintenance just as you do with a car. In the end, that is cheaper and far less hassle.
Oh and I would avoid a belt drive.
Willem


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## vernon (4 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> Oh and I would avoid a belt drive.
> Willem



James Bowthorpe didn't on his record breaking round the world bike ride.


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## willem (4 Apr 2011)

No but he was sponsored to "prove" the point. It is not for nothing that Rohloff are not too keen, nor are Idworx, or m-gineering, my own frame builder. The first of my friends has already had his belt drive Van Nicholas converted back to "ferro drive".
Willem


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## andym (4 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> I also see your point about titanuim - but the whole point with this is not the weight, it's the sheer strength, which gives steel a run for its money. I'm defo not a man thinking about saving grams... Though, as you say, it wont be repaired in the event of a problem. Steel will.




I think framemakers tend to use titanium rather than steel because the strength means they can use less of it - so therefore lighter. But yes I agree if you used the same amount of titanium it would indeed be stronger.


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## andym (4 Apr 2011)

willem said:


> No but he was sponsored to "prove" the point. It is not for nothing that Rohloff are not too keen, nor are Idworx, or m-gineering, my own frame builder. The first of my friends has already had his belt drive Van Nicholas converted back to "ferro drive".



I seem to remember when belt drives were The Future for motorbikes - that was at least 30 years ago.


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## pkeenan (4 Apr 2011)

I've been reliably informed that Koga *do* have a steel frame of the bike I want. 

Have just 'built it up' on their website, I made it almost identical to the alu one I specd (the only difference being the stem). 

This is good news indeed! Ie - the choice of the exact same bike (in the config I want) in both steel and alu. 

Which one I go with, we'll see...


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## vernon (4 Apr 2011)

andym said:


> I seem to remember when belt drives were The Future for motorbikes - that was at least 30 years ago.



That was when Harley Davidson adopted them in a forlorn attempt to bring their bikes into the present.


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## stephenjubb (5 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Willem - that is extremely helpful. Thank you!
> 
> I agree that a good frame should not break. Which brings me to think that everyone seems to talk about steel being necessary because it's repairable anywhere - but how many people have actually been in that situation?
> 
> I have read loads of forums over the last few years, and never actually heard of someone having that happen to them.




happened to me on my Bike Friday New World Tourist in Scotland 3 years ago, 5 days into the tour the down tube broke, without a repair my holiday would have been over, then I went and broke the trailer with too much weight, got that repaired as well (sent home a load of weight as well).


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## ufkacbln (5 Apr 2011)

Whatever you do ride it before buying!


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## Kirstie (5 Apr 2011)

I'm finding this thread really interesting - could we keep the discussion going please? That said I've got nothing particularly to add to it, I'm just learning lots from everyone's opinion and experience


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## P.H (5 Apr 2011)

Dream bikes, let's be honest, if you spend that sort of money on a bike it's going to be something special. But I'd do something different, the bike I'd choose for such an adventure wouldn't necessarily by the bike I'd want to spend the rest of my cycling days with. I much prefer 700c wheels, yet am well aware they're not available everywhere. I like the idea of disk brakes, but I've seen people have far more trouble with them than rim brakes. I would stick with the Rohloff, I've never heard of one become unrideable and Rohloff have a reputation for getting spares round the world in days rather than weeks. So given that, I'd choose a Thorn Raven, with carbide rims for improved braking and a dynamo hub. It isn't the best bike ever (Despite what Thorn tell you) it is pretty much bombproof, well tried and tested, less attractive to thieves and a reasonable price. I'd leave the balance of your budget in the bank and at the end of the tour maybe swap the hubs into a 700c custom titanium frame from Sabbath, Burls or if you're feeling brave direct from China. I won't post yet another photo of my custom ti Rohloff, if you're interested it's in this thread;

https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## andym (5 Apr 2011)

P.H said:


> I like the idea of disk brakes, but I've seen people have far more trouble with them than rim brakes.



Disc brakes do seem to attract more fear and superstition than rim brakes - I suspect this is mainly because people who come to them from a road riding background find them unfamiliar, while they've grown up with rim brakes.

If disc are properly set up there's not very much that can go wrong with them:

- if you have hydraulic brakes and you pack the bike in a way that stresses the joints then you could end up leaking brake fluid - but this is fairly easy to avoid;
- you could dent or bend the disc - but again this is pretty unlikely unless you had an accident that involved falling sideways onto a rock;
- the pistons (or cams if you have cable brakes) could seize up but again this is pretty unlikely.

I think the chances of having problems with discs are no greater than damaging a wheel and not being able to use rim brakes because the rim is out of true.

The key words are 'if they are properly set up' - as with everything else it's worth making sure everything has bedded down before you set off on an big tour.


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## P.H (5 Apr 2011)

andym said:


> I think the chances of having problems with discs are no greater than damaging a wheel and not being able to use rim brakes because the rim is out of true.



I'm happy to accept that. However I have never been to any part of the world where I couldn't get a damaged wheel repaired locally. Do you think that's the case with disk brakes?


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## pkeenan (5 Apr 2011)

andym said:


> The key words are 'if they are properly set up' - as with everything else it's worth making sure everything has bedded down before you set off on an big tour.



Aye!


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## HelenD123 (5 Apr 2011)

The OP may be interested in this review by the Travelling Two of their Santos Travelmasters and their opinions on steel v alu. FWIW I find my steel-framed tourer not as harsh over bumpy surfaces as my alu-framed hybrid but they're at different ends of the price spectrum so it's not exactly a direct comparison. As with any bike purchase, there's no substitute for a test ride. I wouldn't spend the amount you're contemplating or for your high mileage without trying it first. You might find your mind's made up for you.


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## pkeenan (5 Apr 2011)

HelenD123 said:


> I wouldn't spend the amount you're contemplating or for your high mileage without trying it first. You might find your mind's made up for you.



I quite agree - will definitely be doing this. 

Nice to see some argument for the alu side of things. Certainly these Santos and Koga alu frames seem to be able to handle anything. And both have a steel alternative - which is great. 

I can't make my mind up between them. Though am currently leaning toward steel. 

Aparently the Koga Alu frame is easily chipped...? Anyone have experience of this?


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## Wardy (5 Apr 2011)

I've got the Santos Travelmaster 2.6 Cr-Mo myself and I think it's a superb bike. Unfortunately, due to family illness I've had to give up camping and lengthy trips away, so I'm having to sell it. Boo Hoo! I went for Shimano Deore XT front and rear mechs as I was a bit put off by stories of noise from the Rohloff. I also decided on Shimano XTR brakes instead of the standard Maguras. The 26" Rigida Sputnik wheels are shod with Panaracer 1.75's which I felt were a good all-rounder and are good for rough track or tarmac. It'll take up to 60cm! It's a very comfortable, stable, go-anywhere bike, frame and forks made in the EC and Santos do a great assembly job.


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## andym (5 Apr 2011)

P.H said:


> I'm happy to accept that. However I have never been to any part of the world where I couldn't get a damaged wheel repaired locally. Do you think that's the case with disk brakes?



As with everything it's a question of weighing up risks and probabilities and pros and cons. If you are particularly paranoid/cautious you could carry a spare caliper (Avid BB7s use the same caliper front and back) and disc - which has its pros and its cons, but so do ceramic rims and/or speccing really heavy rims to counter rim wear. If I were speccing a frame for an expedition bike to go somewhere really remote, I'd probably go for v-brake bosses _and_ lugs for disc brakes.


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## P.H (5 Apr 2011)

Some more interesting reading on Santos and plenty of pretty pictures;

http://whileoutriding.com/my-bike/


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## hubbike (6 Apr 2011)

key aspects of a expedition bike for me are reliability, low maintenance and strength...weight isn't SO important because you are going to load it with a bunch of camping gear anyway. 

You forgot to add in a Roberts Roughstuff, which brand new will probably come out at 3000 ish too. but for my money it would be a good investment. all these bikes will last a lifetime but Chas Roberts will build you a bike to order to your measurements and with whatever features you want. plus they are handbuilt in uk which may said mattered to you and so it should. very few other manufacturers can claim that. If you spec it right (disc brakes, rohloff) you'll never need another bike.

28,000 miles... is it a RTW trip???


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## pkeenan (6 Apr 2011)

Will check out the Roberts Roughstuff, thanks! 



hubbike said:


> 28,000 miles... is it a RTW trip???



It's a ride from Anchorage, Alaska to Ushuaia, Argentina (following the Andes and Rockies), then I'll fly to Cape Town, SA, from which I'll be heading to London through Africa, via Egypt, Turkey and mainland Europe. 

I will be working on sponsorship, I'm doing this for 2 reasons:

1) To raise money for research into Multiple Myeloma - an uncurable cancer. 
2) I really want to do it, and have been dreaming of an expedition like this for a while. I need to get away from the routines and comfortable lifestyle...

At the moment, none of the details are set (such as when, gear, how much I'll need, who's going to sponsor me, etc) - but that is because it is a recently formed plan, and needs to be approached very seriously and thoroughly. 

Sponsorship is the maker or breaker. Will have to get cracking really!


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## Dave Davenport (6 Apr 2011)

When you say sponsorship, do you mean to pay for the trip?


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## pkeenan (6 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> When you say sponsorship, do you mean to pay for the trip?



Yes, in part. I'll be putting all I can towards it too, for example - I'm buying the bike, rather than obtaining it through a sponsorship deal. 

But I'm keen to get sponsorship because it raises the profile of the expedition, through the sponsors own advertising, as well as more vessels for 'word of mouth' to travel through. The aim is to raise at least £28000... so £1 per mile, so the more people/companies with an active interest, the more likely this is to achieve.


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## MacB (6 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Yes, in part. I'll be putting all I can towards it too, for example - I'm buying the bike, rather than obtaining it through a sponsorship deal.
> 
> But I'm keen to get sponsorship because it raises the profile of the expedition, through the sponsors own advertising, as well as more vessels for 'word of mouth' to travel through. The aim is to raise at least £28000... so £1 per mile, so the more people/companies with an active interest, the more likely this is to achieve.



You do need to think this part through carefully, as I think Dave was alluding to. You want to ride round the world on a bike, fine, you want others to pay all, or part, of the costs, then the questions will come. For starters it's easy to see what you will get out of it and it's easy to extrapolate out further benefits to you in the future, a book or video perhaps, even job opportunities. But it's also easy to say you could put the same time and energy into fund raising alone, why do you need to get a bike and holiday out of it? for example I wouldn't hesitate to sponsor someone if they were paying their costs themselves and all additional proceeds went to a charity that I didn't mind contributing to. As soon as the sponsorship becomes an enabling aspect then I'd be far more circumspect.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that it's a bad idea, just that it needs careful consideration. I note that we don't see people doing things like ' I've saved up £20k for a round the world bike trip but I'll give it all to charity instead if others will sponsor that act of giving to increase the charitable contribution'.


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## Dave Davenport (6 Apr 2011)

Without wanting to sound too downbeat, I'd be really surprised if you got anymore funding sponsorship than a bit of kit, assuming you're not some sort of celebrity or already have a track record for this type of thing of course.


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## pkeenan (6 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Without wanting to sound too downbeat, I'd be really surprised if you got anymore funding sponsorship than a bit of kit, assuming you're not some sort of celebrity or already have a track record for this type of thing of course.



Of course you're right. Though I think that I'll try anyways. 

Anyways - the aim is not to get the sponsorship. It is the trip itself and the raising awareness and money for the charity. So with sponsorship or without, it'll happen.


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## Dave Davenport (6 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Of course you're right. Though I think that I'll try anyways.
> 
> Anyways - the aim is not to get the sponsorship. It is the trip itself and the raising awareness and money for the charity. So with sponsorship or without, it'll happen.




Would you not be better cutting your bike budget by 50%, you'd still get something more than adequate and the money saved would fund a couple of months on the road.


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## pkeenan (6 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Would you not be better cutting your bike budget by 50%, you'd still get something more than adequate and the money saved would fund a couple of months on the road.



This is quite true... yes. We'll see. I need a bike ready to do the Americas, as well as Africa. So it has to be tough and reliable. But yes - I'll give it a good (re)think.


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## JackE (6 Apr 2011)

How about one of these: http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/detail.asp/sku=vannic-pioneerrohloff/Van_Nicholas_Pioneer_Rohloff_Bike . It might be cheaper to order it direct from Van Nic as the Euro exchange rate seems to favour us at present.


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## Zoiders (6 Apr 2011)

I wouldn't go down the custom build route, I would convert something else (of which there many options) and spend the saved money on other kit.


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## andym (6 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Would you not be better cutting your bike budget by 50%, you'd still get something more than adequate and the money saved would fund a couple of months on the road.



I think that's right. £3000 is all well and good if you've gotva big redundancy cheque in you hot and sweaties, but if you have raise money then there's a strong case for looking hard at costs - after all, every £100 you save is a £100 less to raise. One serious option for The frame would be an On-One 456 - a very tough frame with rack mounts for £170 - add £60 for forks. £250 should get you a very good-quality set of wheels and if you can live with ordinary gears rather than Rohloff, you should be able to get a goodquality drive train for £250.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROO456/on-one-456-frame


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## hubbike (7 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Will check out the Roberts Roughstuff, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Exciting times amigo! You are going to have an amazing trip.


I'm just back from riding Ushuaia to Venezuela so any south america info you want, people to stay with, must see sights etc drop me a pm...My biggest advice is LEARN SPANISH!!!

I think point 2 is the is more important than point 1. do it because of the joy of it. because it will be fun and mind broadening. because you would do it even if no one else knew...you are going to find that in 2011 even a trip of this magnitude isn't all that uncommon. I reckon there are more than 250 round the world bikers each year. just peruse crazyguyonabike! 

So what makes your trip news worthy enough to be worth sponsoring? because you are raising money for Multiple Myeloma? There are lots of charity riders already. Many of them are financing their own extended cycle trips. If so why shouldn't the company just donate the £10,000 or so you are going to spend on your trip (and even that is a fairly tight budget) straight to the charity? In short, a company considering giving you money to go on a cycle expedition is going to wonder why you don't just save up and pay for it yourself. (that's what I did hence the bitter tone!) 

Cycling is a fun way to travel and even in extreme environments isn't crazyily dangerous or difficult. It isn't really an expedition either its just travelling on a bike.

Expedition grants are generally reserved for boundary-pushing climbing expeditions or people attempting to break polar exploration records, an even they struggle. The most epic expedition of recent times, Carl Bushby's continuous walk around the world, has difficulty raising money. Why should you fair better?

That said, I heard that Mark Beaumont got a whopping great 25,000 quid from RBS for his record breaking rtw ride which was 18,000miles. But I seriously doubt if any business at all would part with 10% of that kind of money post credit crunch...

Rather than ask for travel cash a good approach might be to ask for some bits of equipment. I got maps, panniers and some clothing discounts this way. 

If press and publicity is your thing go for it. but be aware that it may require a story to tell (of some value) and you're not alone in wanting to go off cycling for a year or two.

I would now revise my bike suggestion. I bought my roughstuff for 1500 second hand, its been fantastic. If I had 3000 lying around I might be tempted to buy a new one. but that would pay for a 6 month trip!! but you could do that kind of trip on a converted steel mountain bike built for around 800 quid. people do. I built up a bike with this approach in mind but then sold it when I had to delay my trip and therefore had time to save more wonger and then the roughstuff came along (luckily). doing the conversion taught me a great deal that came in handy about how to fix bikes.


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## pkeenan (7 Apr 2011)

Hi Hubbike! 

Thanks for your long and detailed post. It's great to hear from someone who's pedaled S. Am. already! I'll definitely be in touch at some point for advice and queries!

As for the sponsorship - I actually feel quite bad now for even thinking of getting sponsorship! You're all totally right that companies would just donate the figure to the charity before handing it over to someone like me. And as I've said - it's the cause of the ride, and the actual ride that matter to me - not the sponsorship. 
I guess i just thought I'd try because that seems to be the done thing... whoops! So I hadn't thought about it in much detail.

But it would be amazing to do it, I really want (and in many ways - feel I neeed!) to do a massive expedition like this. I've never been travelling, and as you say - cycling is a perfect way of doing it! And it's that experience that I would like to have had first hand. 

Thank you all for unravelling things in my head for me...


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## Dave Davenport (7 Apr 2011)

You haven't said but I get the impression that you're fairly young? (compared to me anyway) and don't know what sort of work skills you have but maybe planning a trip that took in some places where you'd be able to stop and work for a bit to top up funds would be an idea.


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## pkeenan (7 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> You haven't said but I get the impression that you're fairly young? (compared to me anyway) and don't know what sort of work skills you have but maybe planning a trip that took in some places where you'd be able to stop and work for a bit to top up funds would be an idea.



You're right: I'm coming out of university this coming July. I thought of doing something along those lines - like teaching english as a foreign language - a while back. Perhaps that would be the best way! And this would give me the opportunity to integrate into the cultures. 
Thanks Dave D


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## Danny (7 Apr 2011)

pkeenan said:


> Willem - that is extremely helpful. Thank you!
> 
> I agree that a good frame should not break. Which brings me to think that everyone seems to talk about steel being necessary because it's repairable anywhere - but how many people have actually been in that situation?
> 
> I have read loads of forums over the last few years, and never actually heard of someone having that happen to them.



I've bent my rear gear hanger on two different steel bikes as a result of minor accidents. On both occasions this was easily repaired by a bike shop. 

If I had aluminium I would have needed a new frame.


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## pkeenan (8 Apr 2011)

Danny said:


> I've bent my rear gear hanger on two different steel bikes as a result of minor accidents. On both occasions this was easily repaired by a bike shop.
> 
> If I had aluminium I would have needed a new frame.



I don't think that's entirely true... (Not knowing the actual scenarios, you'll no doubt correct me):

The hanger is *meant* to brake/bend at impact to save impact doing anything to the actual frame. I was once coming away from some traffic lights, when my chain snapped and my rear wheel just popped out from underneath me (nightmare). Anyways, the hanger snapped clean in two. I took it to my LBS asking them whether I just had a cheap part, and he said NO, and explained that it did its job. 

He explained that it is similar to a car - which is meant to fold at impact, because that's safer for people inside. 

So this happened to me, on my aluminum frame - and the frame is fine.


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## pkeenan (8 Apr 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> Surprised you're not considering a Thorn Nomad or a Hewitt.



Just an update - I've done some more research into this bike (the Thorn), and Wow: that's pretty much the kind of thing I'm after, not sure why I overlooked it the first time!

Thinking I'll go down that route... thanks for the heads up.


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## tbtb (9 Apr 2011)

Reading your other posts, I got the impression you are on a budget but are very fit. It's a great plan, the Americas but it does sound in danger of being a plan so expensive it can never happen, almost by design.

Do you have this spending cash already or is it in the pipeline somehow? You may be better to grab a £400 bike in Anchorage (plenty of bike shops there) rather than spend ages saving up for a superbike to ship over.

Or, if the flight costs are a barrier to this plan, tour south from where you live, down through France, Spain, into Africa even, or east from France, heading towards Russia. That sounds pretty exotic! Veer towards a Ryanair airport town as the cash runs out. That sort of plan might require 1k or 2k, the sort of sum you could raise by working for a few months.


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## pkeenan (10 Apr 2011)

Thanks tbtb - yeah, you're right that the Americas is an easy one to let slip. I'll get there, though!
But yes!! You're totally right about heading through Europe, or Africa, or Asia - the world is anyone's oyster on a bike!

Many thanks to everyone's comments - it's been a very helpful thread for me, and I'll probably let you all know what comes of it when a decision is made!


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