# How are we finding the used market?



## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

While I still see a lot of cyclists about I get the hunch that the corona-driven cycling frenzy has largely died off; with the summer drawing to a close, nights getting longer, many back to work, money getting tight for lots of people and (I'd guess) those who had the itch already having had plenty of time to scratch it.

I've been trying to sell my ofo for a while with no joy (admittedly at the higher end of the price range but it's been tweaked a fair bit and isn't outside the range of used standard offerings), while there seems to be a lot of low-mid range stuff on FB marketplace that isn't shifting. From ebay "completed listings" searches the market for vintage stuff seems to be pretty stangant. I've just taken a look at used Genesis Croix De Fers on there; being shocked to see a number of earlier models changing hands for as little as £240, and more commonly £300-400 recently, while these seemed to have a floor of about £500 a few months ago... although admittedly prices seem to be somewhat all over the place.

What are your experiences of the used market - are prices still high and demand strong, or are we starting to see interest waning?


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## Drago (9 Sep 2020)

Is it a bird? 

Is it a plane?

No, its @biggs682 !


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## All uphill (9 Sep 2020)

I'm waiting patiently, looking forward to brightening up my January with a bargain bike.😁


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## DCLane (9 Sep 2020)

Budget stuff is slowing, top end bikes aren't selling well - I got about £250 less than I'd expected for my NeilPryde and similar top-end bikes are struggling to reach reserves. Vintage bike sales have definitely slowed significantly. Asking prices haven't moved down yet though.

Parts prices are selling much higher in my experience, although most I've sold are being shipped to Europe rather than just in the UK.


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## Rusty Nails (9 Sep 2020)

I volunteer at a community bike workshop where we sell refurbished donated bikes - anything between £50 and £250. Through the summer demand was ridiculously high and we couldn't fix enough bikes in the time available so had to limit the numbers coming to our weekly sale.

Demand is still slightly higher than usual for this time of the year but has dropped significantly the past few weeks. The next few weeks will see the return of students to University and as we are based just a few hundred yards from the main halls of residence we expect another rise in sales, although we don't know whether we will see the usual number of Chinese student customers.


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## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

Thanks guys - some interesting insights so far 

Looks like I might have missed the boat with my ofo. Tempted to sling it on ebay but I've not had any "no fee" promos for a while and I find the listings process increasingly akin to having teeth pulled..


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## Moodyman (9 Sep 2020)

Asking prices still seem above what they were 12m ago.

There's still a strong demand from the commuting market even if leisure has tapered off.

Ofo bikes are a bit niche so perhaps don't have the mass appeal.


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## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Asking prices still seem above what they were 12m ago.
> 
> There's still a strong demand from the commuting market even if leisure has tapered off.
> 
> Ofo bikes are a bit niche so perhaps don't have the mass appeal.


Aye.. generally the used ofos I've seen for sale have typically ranged between £50 and £100; IMO mine's especially nice as it has proper fat pneumatic tyres when the original solid ones are bloody horrible. I've also tweaked some other bits like changing a lot of the tamperproof fixings, although I've also removed the mudguards and basket (all included) which may put some off. 

They have a lot going for them as a cheap, low-maintenace utility bike; however equally are heavy with limited gearing and tbh if I had a ton to spend on a hack it'd probably be a more conventional hybrid. I've put a lot of time into it and would at least like to get back what I've spent... but then I guess I've had some use out of it too so can't complain too much. Would like the space back that it's occupying though and feel like I'm on a borrowed time re. demand with the winter looming.


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## fossyant (9 Sep 2020)

Psst, sorry OP, but I wouldn't expect much for an Ofo - you might get back what you paid for it.


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## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> Psst, sorry OP, but I wouldn't expect much for an Ofo - you might get back what you paid for it.


Neither would I, but again looking at ebay £50-100 seems to be the going rate for standard used ones - or at least it was the last time I checked. Hence I don't think I'm being unreasonable expecting to get something in this range.


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Sep 2020)

fossyant said:


> Psst, sorry OP, but I wouldn't expect much for an Ofo - you might get back what you paid for it.



If I buy something, get some use out of it, then manage to sell it for what it cost me, I'd consider that a pretty good result.
Don't expect someone to compensate you for the time and effort spent sorting it. Purchase price + parts fitted is a realistic outcome.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2020)

Bear in mind that we are entering the time of year when demand slumps anyway, so prices will always depress.


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## Oldhippy (9 Sep 2020)

My ICE trike just been put up for sale but only been a day or so so see what happens.


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## Reynard (9 Sep 2020)

The local tip / recycling center certainly doesn't have as many adult bikes in as it usually does. Currently only two - a decent Trek hardtail (that needs a little bit of fettling) for £35 and a loop-framed Dutchie in good nick for £55. Those prices are somewhat up on what they usually charge, but still acceptable. The rest of their current stock is a grand total of five cheap kiddies bikes, including a couple of the usual full susser BSO. Usually, they will have around 20 bikes available.

The real test will be come the spring, I think. Who knows what the next few weeks will throw up - if we go back down into something like lockdown, I can still see people going for a bimble if the weather's good. Nothing like a good bike ride to help with the headspace side of things. Exercise is a good way of keeping me from climbing the walls, and that's likely true for a lot of folks.

Guess it's mainly the commuting market now, especially since public transport is probably still best avoided.

Parts. Now that's a totally different kettle of fish. I've had to put a pause on the bike build because some of the bits I need are out of stock. Uber expensive stuff still seems fine, it's the bog-standard to mid-range stuff that's hard to get the mitts on.

Actually, the same applies to tools. My LBS is out of stock on a lot of basic bike-specific tools.


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## CanucksTraveller (9 Sep 2020)

Coincidentally I've been looking at buying a shopper, ideally a pretty shabby and untidy one as a project. Everything available in that bracket seems to be £75-150 and labelled "vintage" or "Chopper era" as if that adds value in itself. The only cheap ones are truly tragic, snapped frames and missing hardware. 

I think that's the eternally hopeful holding out and hoping the bubble hasn't quite burst yet. Used prices should be starting to ease now with lower demand, although they won't truly crash until the 2020 model Coronacycles start flooding the market sometime next year (when they've done at least a 6 month stint as a shed queen and the owners realise they probably won't find the motivation ever again).


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## vickster (9 Sep 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Coincidentally I've been looking at buying a shopper, ideally a pretty shabby and untidy one as a project. Everything available in that bracket seems to be £75-150 and labelled "vintage" or "Chopper era" as if that adds value in itself. The only cheap ones are truly tragic, snapped frames and missing hardware.
> 
> I think that's the eternally hopeful holding out and hoping the bubble hasn't quite burst yet. Used prices should be starting to ease now with lower demand, although they won't truly crash until the 2020 model Coronacycles start flooding the market sometime next year (when they've done at least a 6 month stint as a shed queen and the owners realise they probably won't find the motivation ever again).


You could get an Ofo


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## biggs682 (9 Sep 2020)

For what it's worth older road bikes ie 70's - 90's have stalled all year unless something really special
Modern ie 2000 yr onwards road bikes under £250 still selling well
Newer bikes selling if priced under £250 after that very slow
Some bargains to be had on steel road bikes


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## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

biggs682 said:


> For what it's worth older road bikes ie 70's - 90's have stalled all year unless something really special
> Modern ie 2000 yr onwards road bikes under £250 still selling well
> Newer bikes selling if priced under £250 after that very slow
> Some bargains to be had on steel road bikes


Thanks - I thought similar about the older road bikes, however I've only been paying attention to the market recently so don't have much of a frame of reference. Seems that you can get some seemingly nice '80s Raleigh road bikes (mid range, Reynolds 501/531) on ebay for not a huge amount of money (£100-150).


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## biggs682 (9 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks - I thought similar about the older road bikes, however I've only been paying attention to the market recently so don't have much of a frame of reference. Seems that you can get some seemingly nice '80s Raleigh road bikes (mid range, Reynolds 501/531) on ebay for not a huge amount of money (£100-150).



If you look hard enough 501 bikes can be had for about £75 and 531 for just a bit more


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## wafter (9 Sep 2020)

biggs682 said:


> If you look hard enough 501 bikes can be had for about £75 and 531 for just a bit more


Thanks! Plan is to sit on my hands and see what comes up, hopefully learning on the way to finding a decent, appropriate donor for a refinish and modern groupset conversion..


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## Gunk (9 Sep 2020)

My Son and I are going to start buying and selling again, just picked up three bikes all for sensible money


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## FrankCrank (10 Sep 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Coincidentally I've been looking at buying a shopper, ideally a pretty shabby and untidy one as a project. Everything available in that bracket seems to be £75-150 and labelled "vintage" or "Chopper era" as if that adds value in itself. The only cheap ones are truly tragic, snapped frames and missing hardware.
> 
> I think that's the eternally hopeful holding out and hoping the bubble hasn't quite burst yet. Used prices should be starting to ease now with lower demand, although they won't truly crash until the 2020 model Coronacycles start flooding the market sometime next year (when they've done at least a 6 month stint as a shed queen and the owners realise they probably won't find the motivation ever again).


The 2 R20's I have cost a fiver for one, and a score for the other, acquired a couple of years back. Bide your time, shoppers are ubiquitous, cheap, mass transport, and only worth a round of beers really. Carl P of this parish picked up a nice useable one a while back that was about to be scrapped, so if you're in the right place at the right time you'll get a bargain. The transient nonsense prices at the moment will soon return to normal - happy hunting


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## biggs682 (11 Sep 2020)

Picked up a fairly lightly use Carrera Crixus a couple of days ago it sold tonight 

Off to see what i can find locally for next one


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## Oldhippy (11 Sep 2020)

My trike went quickly.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Sep 2020)

It's the same with cars and motorcycles, the closure of dealers and producers meant a dearth of used cars circulating the market. My local indie's stock is down by over half, though it does seem to be picking up again. Assuming we don't go back into full lockdown I think we will be back to normal before too long.

And I would expect the market to be flooded with late model bikes after Christmas. Many of those who bought during the lockdown hot spell will not last very long into the colder, wetter days. Hold your nerve and there will be bargains to be had.


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## Reynard (11 Sep 2020)

Well, the two decent bikes I mentioned were for sale at the local tip have already been sold. They were only there for a couple of days. Two more have come in today - a very basic step-through frame town bike and what I think is a Raleigh Pioneer. I doubt those will hang around for very long either.

Oddly, the two junior full-susser BSO have also sold. Only the wee ankle biters kiddies bikes left now.


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## clid61 (11 Sep 2020)

Flogged 3 bikes in july on fleabay, starting bid and buy it now price all mid range road bikes . All 3 gone within 24 hours .
NOT flogging my Claud Butler hardtail, Brompton , Croix de Fer so dont ask. 
Sold loads of cycling shoes pedals and shirts too , guess its how you price them, and sizing .


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## Pale Rider (11 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> I've been trying to sell my ofo for a while with no joy (admittedly at the higher end of the price range but it's been tweaked a fair bit



If you can be bothered, return the ofo to as close to standard as you can.

Buyers like to think their secondhand purchase is not so inferior to new - anything that interferes with that feeling, such as accessories and tweaks, will reduce the bike's desirability.

Sounds daft, but a bike with £100 worth of fitted accessories will not sell as well as the same bike without those bits on it.

A bottle cage might not do any harm, but no one wants a bidon that, horror of horrors, someone else has slurped from, or - to them - someone else's smelly old saddle pack or trunk bag.

None of the above applies to the maker's spec for the bike, so standard is the way to go.


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## wafter (12 Sep 2020)

Oldhippy said:


> My trike went quickly.


I think that was a good job for my sake - saw your ad and location last night and got all manner of impure thoughts until I saw that it'd sold! 

Looked really nice 



Pale Rider said:


> If you can be bothered, return the ofo to as close to standard as you can.
> 
> Buyers like to think their secondhand purchase is not so inferior to new - anything that interferes with that feeling, such as accessories and tweaks, will reduce the bike's desirability.
> 
> ...


Thanks - makes sense but tbh there's no way I'm pulling it all to bits to lash those hateful granite tyres back onto it again. Any interest on FB seems to have dried up so it looks like I'll have to resort to evil-bay, as much as I despise it. Haven't seen any "fee free" promos for ages though which makes me wonder if they're flooded with traffic..


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## Bonefish Blues (12 Sep 2020)

I've had a couple of nice bikes on for a couple of weeks with limited interest, but I guess each is rather specialist in its own way, so I'm not chasing a particularly large market in the first place.


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## Blue Hills (12 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Haven't seen any "fee free" promos for ages though which makes me wonder if they're flooded with traffic..


Me too - I used to get loads of invites to sell stuff.
Have never sold anything on it but might try it out if they sent another offer my way.


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## vickster (12 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> I think that was a good job for my sake - saw your ad and location last night and got all manner of impure thoughts until I saw that it'd sold!
> 
> Looked really nice
> 
> ...


They had £1 fees a couple of weeks back


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## pjd57 (14 Sep 2020)

I had planned on waiting until the winter and the glut of Covid bikes then getting myself a road bike.

But I saw a second hand Dolan preffisio for sale in the LBS..... belonging to one of the mechanics.

We settled on £350 ...... pleased with that.


Saw one on Glasgow gumtree last night for £300 but since the one I bought was in great condition I'm not bothered by that.

Definitely some bargains about


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## stoatsngroats (14 Sep 2020)

I won’t use eb@‘ for bike sales, but I’ve had no interest for my 29er mtb. I’ll hang on to it and keep speaking with those local to me who may want this at some stage.


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## Blue Hills (15 Sep 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> I won’t use eb@‘ for bike sales,


Out of interest, can I ask why?


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## Venod (15 Sep 2020)

biggs682 said:


> If you look hard enough 501 bikes can be had for about £75 and 531 for just a bit more



@biggs682 Do you have an idea what a good price for a Columbus SLX frame should be? there are some eye watering prices for such as Colnago, but are less well known brands reasonable.


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## biggs682 (15 Sep 2020)

@Venod I would still expect to pay over £150 if not more as a lot of people like slx frames .

Do you have one ?


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## Venod (15 Sep 2020)

biggs682 said:


> Do you have one ?



No, never had a Columbus frame, I have had 501,531,Ti Aluminium,Carbon, so I have been looking, it needs to be something that takes my eye though, I would build it with modern components not period.


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## biggs682 (15 Sep 2020)

Venod said:


> No, never had a Columbus frame, I have had 501,531,Ti Aluminium,Carbon, so I have been looking, it needs to be something that takes my eye though, I would build it with modern components not period.



It might be worth speaking to Simonnici as they had quite a few used frames a while back but the shipping from Italy was expensive unless you bring in 2 or 3 at a time


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Sep 2020)

biggs682 said:


> For what it's worth older road bikes ie 70's - 90's have stalled all year unless something really special
> Modern ie 2000 yr onwards road bikes under £250 still selling well
> Newer bikes selling if priced under £250 after that very slow
> Some bargains to be had on steel road bikes



Do you reckon it's the downtube shifters on the lugged steel era stuff that's putting off the punters? 80's and 90's bikes are every bit as useable as modern ones, if not more so.
Those of us old enough to have ridden bikes with friction shifters as kids or older teenagers are familiar with them, and once you've ridden a newly acquired but old bike for a few minutes and done a couple of gearchanges it all becomes second nature even if you haven't ridden that type of bike for years. I can see why anyone who never grew up with those sort of bikes might be wary of them though.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Do you reckon it's the downtube shifters on the lugged steel era stuff that's putting off the punters? 80's and 90's bikes are every bit as useable as modern ones, if not more so.
> Those of us old enough to have ridden bikes with friction shifters as kids or older teenagers are familiar with them, and once you've ridden a newly acquired but old bike for a few minutes and done a couple of gearchanges it all becomes second nature even if you haven't ridden that type of bike for years. I can see why anyone who never grew up with those sort of bikes might be wary of them though.


There is a road test I've seen somewhere or other on the Raleigh 753 1980's team replica which mentions the D/T friction shifters being "Perilously close to the front tyre". I suppose if you've only ever ridden bikes with brifters it would look a bit dangerous, though as you say it was never a problem for anyone, even the most ham fisted rider.


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## vickster (19 Sep 2020)

@wafter £1 selling fees offer available this weekend


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## wafter (19 Sep 2020)

vickster said:


> @wafter £1 selling fees offer available this weekend


Thanks - appreciate the heads-up!

Evidently you got targeted with a different promo as I noticed 1% selling fees earlier today; same difference though. Will be sticking the bike on tomorrow


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## Gunk (19 Sep 2020)

I'll be listing the Eclipse on Gumtree later this week, it'll be interesting to see what the response is.


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## wafter (19 Sep 2020)

Gunk said:


> I'll be listing the Eclipse on Gumtree later this week, it'll be interesting to see what the response is.


Good luck 

Got a bite on the Ofo earlier on FB marketplace, however when I replied a few hours later the guy was no longer bothered so I guess had found an alternative. Will be interesting to see how it goes on ebay; I hope I'll at least be able to flog it!


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## Bonefish Blues (19 Sep 2020)

I've just listed both mine on eBay too.

Must get around to fettling the Hurdy-Gurdy you kindly gave me, but it's still behind several other bikes at the moment!


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## Gunk (19 Sep 2020)

I usually use Ebay, but the Eclipse is going on Gumtree, I'm not going to be greedy on the price and there are plenty of (tall) bearded hipster types in Oxford that want some 1990's retro.


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## wafter (19 Sep 2020)

Bonefish Blues said:


> I've just listed both mine on eBay too.
> 
> Must get around to fettling the Hurdy-Gurdy you kindly gave me, but it's still behind several other bikes at the moment!


It's all good - doubt it'll be a quick and easy job and I'll be interested to see what you make of it when you do get round to it 



Gunk said:


> I usually use Ebay, but the Eclipse is going on Gumtree, I'm not going to be greedy on the price and there are plenty of (tall) bearded hipster types in Oxford that want some 1990's retro.


That's fair - tbh I hate ebay but the Ofo has been on FB marketplace for weeks; with a bit of interest but no firm takers. Judging by the price others seem to be going for on ebay I think I have a reasonable chance of getting somewhere near what I want for it. Time will tell!


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## Blue Hills (20 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> That's fair - tbh I hate ebay but the Ofo has been on FB marketplace for weeks; with a bit of interest but no firm takers.



Apologies if have asked before (have memory of a goldfish) , but can I ask why you hate the bay?

I have bought many bits on it, and also bought a bike (for all of £30!) - are you referring to selling on it?


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## wafter (20 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Apologies if have asked before (have memory of a goldfish) , but can I ask why you hate the bay?
> 
> I have bought many bits on it, and also bought a bike (for all of £30!) - are you referring to selling on it?


Yes; my main issue is with selling. I was a fairly early adoptor of ebay and for years loved it as a seller.. however in more recent times I've had real issues with selling on there; mainly because of their increasingly heavy-handed, authoritarian approach to governing the site.

There are too many examples to remember or list, but despite the fact that I've always played by their rules (never ending auctions early / selling off-site etc) I've been stung by restrictions on listings and message content (such as emails and phone numbers), being forced to take Paypal on collected goods and take the hit on their fees despite requesting cash, losing money through having postage costs capped by their wildly inaccurate algorithm at below what it actually costs me, having listings pulled because they supposedly infringe their rules even when this clearly hasn't been the case.

I also lost a lot of faith in the site when they removed the ability for sellers to leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers - how the feck is that fair if you've been dicked about by an idiot buyer and have your hands tied regarding warning other people? It grossly unfairly stacks the odds in favour of the buyer and promotes dishonest behaviour on their part. In times when I've had cause to address these issues I've found the site staff at best unknowledgeable and unhelpful, at worst willfully obstructive, punitive, belligerent and confrontational.

I've also found the listings process has become increasingly restrictive, convoluted and difficult to navigate - I was perfectly happy entering all pertinent data manually, rather than having to wade through their dumbed down circus of limited multiple-choice options. Photos are another one; occasionally when I had a lot to list and was in a hurry to get the listings up at a preferential time (Sunday evening during a promotion, usually) I'd often leave out photos and add them the following day. Now you _must _have photos for the listing to go live, meaning more of my time wasted uploading and then replacing an arbitrary image. 

Also, while the auction process can be good for maximising value on higher-priced goods (or in cases when you're unsure of value) in a lot of cases it just drags the process out un-necessarily.

As much as I dislike Facebook for all the usual reasons, I've generally had a fair bit of success selling on there recently - no fees, far less hassle to list, a broad audience and often quick turnarounds.

I really did love ebay for many years but after seemingly being repeatedly kicked in the balls every single time I've tried to sell on there in the past 2-3yrs I now avoid it like the plague. The only time I'll consider using it now is when there's a low/no fees promo on and I've exhausted every other possibility as I find the process frustrating, tiring and tbh while I was very happy for them to take their cut in the early days, now I bitterly resent giving them a penny of my money.


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## wafter (20 Sep 2020)

OK, so I've just listed a couple of items on ebay and straight off the bat I encountered a litany of infuriating occurances like a shotgun blast to the face:

- I can't simply write a description and select an auction category, I have to enter keywords, let it make a selection for me, pick from a list of similar items then delete all the shite attached to them and replace it with my own prose. Evidently ebay doesn't trust its users' ability to write a simple ad.

- The site pushes me for detail in the item heading, but hides the description and by default simply repeats the heading in this section - surely that's where all the detail should be..?

- I got half way through writing a description and the page just completely lost it all and defaulted back to ebay's chosen one-line suggestion.

- The listing is constantly pushing / defaulting to irrelevant or detrimental "features" - no, I don't want to entertain offers of half my starting bid. No, I don't want to offer your recommended postage of £3 Second Class of a f*cking 17 kilogram bicycle.

- Despite the fact that ebay no longer own Paypal, it's still present as a non-negotiable, de-facto form of payment.

- The listing won't publish unless I enter my full postcode; that feature must be well-loved by those with expensive, stealable items for sale.


In the old days it was simple: Write a title and description, choose a category, bang in some photos; done. I could have achieved the whole process far more quickly, efficiently and with far less stress had the site not seen fit to lead me by the nose through a load of questionable / pointless / detremental options like some developmentally challenged child.

Every time I list something on ebay I swear it'll be the last.. I'll update when some petulant jobsworth inevitably pulls my listing or otherwise p*sses in my cornflakes for some minor infraction I've no doubt committed somewhere along the line


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## Bonefish Blues (20 Sep 2020)

OTOH despite the pain I've already sold my Cinder Cone and have an offer pending on the Sutra.


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## Bonefish Blues (20 Sep 2020)

... and whilst typing the Sutra has sold too. 6 weeks accum. on 3 cycling sites and some minor tyre-kicking vs less than 24 hours on eBay and they both sold.


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## wafter (27 Sep 2020)

The ofo has sold for £72 (assuming the deal completes) which is a little less than I'd hoped for but better than a kick in the spuds.

As an aside; ebay seller irritation No. 35,365: listed another item at the same time which didn't sell. Declined numerous coercive ebay suggestions during the original listing; lo and behold it's been automatically re-listed and the new one is now inviting offers, which I specifically declined on the original listing. And it won't let me remove the feature. Absolute tossers


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## Blue Hills (27 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> The ofo has sold for £72 (assuming the deal completes) which is a little less than I'd hoped for but better than a kick in the spuds.
> 
> As an aside; ebay seller irritation No. 35,365: listed another item at the same time which didn't sell. Declined numerous coercive ebay suggestions during the original listing; lo and behold it's been automatically re-listed and the new listing is now inviting offers, which I specifically declined on the original listing. Tossers


This might explain something. I have sometimes seen ads which appear to invite offers and made offers near the full price which weren't even replied to, whereas i would expect a counter offer suggestion at least. Was left wondering why they invited offers. Maybe they hadn't really.


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## Bonefish Blues (27 Sep 2020)

Silly story about daft seller who might be me. Decided it would be just as easy to chuck the Cinder Cone in the family bus and drive it down to the buyer who is in Bethnal Green. I don't sleep in on a Saturday anyway, and it wouldn't take long, and the delivery charge would cover fuel and pay me about £3 an hour!

Idiot amateurish delivery driver was distracted by a lorry doing something daft and wandered about 75 metres into the ULEZ/Congestion Charge Zone. That'll be£27.50 sir. I'll not be taking it up as a profession, methinks!


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## wafter (27 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> This might explain something. I have sometimes seen ads which appear to invite offers and made offers near the full price which weren't even replied to, whereas i would expect a counter offer suggestion at least. Was left wondering why they invited offers. Maybe they hadn't really.


Sounds entirely likely - I only found out when I got an offer out of the blue. I've now revised the ad to state in the description that I won't entertain offers below the starting price, but I doubt anyone will read that. You see what I mean about their constant coercian - obviously it's in their interest that the item sells for something rather than fails to sell at all, so everything is geared towards achieving this despite the seller's wishes potentially being to the contrary. 

Yet another negative experience to chuck on the growing list and further incentive to never sell on the sodding site again; I used to respect ebay's rules but if I get any interest in this item now I'll end the listing and finish the transaction off-site to avoid the fees.. which are something else that's been quietly reinstated with automatic / unsanctioned re-listing, after the original was listed during a promotion


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## wafter (27 Sep 2020)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Silly story about daft seller who might be me. Decided it would be just as easy to chuck the Cinder Cone in the family bus and drive it down to the buyer who is in Bethnal Green. I don't sleep in on a Saturday anyway, and it wouldn't take long, and the delivery charge would cover fuel and pay me about £3 an hour!
> 
> Idiot amateurish delivery driver was distracted by a lorry doing something daft and wandered about 75 metres into the ULEZ/Congestion Charge Zone. That'll be£27.50 sir. I'll not be taking it up as a profession, methinks!


Man, that sucks and would have made me very, very angry!


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## Bonefish Blues (27 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Man, that sucks and would have made me very, very angry!


It did for a while - but then it just becomes a(nother) silly episode, and entirely my own fault


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## Blue Hills (28 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Sounds entirely likely - I only found out when I got an offer out of the blue. I've now revised the ad to state in the description that I won't entertain offers below the starting price, but I doubt anyone will read that. You see what I mean about their constant coercian - obviously it's in their interest that the item sells for something rather than fails to sell at all, so everything is geared towards achieving this despite the seller's wishes potentially being to the contrary.
> 
> Yet another negative experience to chuck on the growing list and further incentive to never sell on the sodding site again; I used to respect ebay's rules but if I get any interest in this item now I'll end the listing and finish the transaction off-site to avoid the fees.. which are something else that's been quietly reinstated with automatic / unsanctioned re-listing, after the original was listed during a promotion


Automatic/unsanctioned relisting? Can't you stop this? If not, that sounds akin to theft by ebay of your stuff.
As for completing deals off-site, won't you be banned for this?
In any case how would you and the potential buyer make contact under the ebay radar?


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## wafter (28 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Automatic/unsanctioned relisting? Can't you stop this? If not, that sounds akin to theft by ebay of your stuff.
> As for completing deals off-site, won't you be banned for this?
> In any case how would you and the potential buyer make contact under the ebay radar?


Tbh I thought I had already opted out of it (I'd repeatedly declined their persistant "offer" to keep re-listing it at 5% less until it sold) - it's probably not even listed as an option during the listing procedure tbh. I'm sure they're legally savvy enough to have all bases covered regarding the viability of any complaint I might have in this regard.

As for completing the listing off site; the contact thing is the challenge and tbh I think it's unlikely to get me permanently banned; although tbh I'd not really care if it did since (just as I've said many times before ) I have zero intention of using their horrible site to sell anything in future, while it would be easy enough to set up a new account to buy with and the feedback I've "earned" over so many years is effectively worthless now anyway.


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## Mike Ayling (28 Sep 2020)

Do you have Gumtree in your area?


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## wafter (28 Sep 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Do you have Gumtree in your area?


Yes, although tbh I've never had much success selling on there in the past. Have used FB marketplace with good success recently; struggled to sell the ofo on there though - which is why I went with ebay (much against my better judgement!).


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## Blue Hills (28 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> while it would be easy enough to set up a new account to buy with a


I don't know about ebay but I think paypal has very sophisticated ways of preventing folk from setting up other accounts to get round issues.
Yes ebay doesn't like communication other than through its messaging systems - makes it tricky buying bikes as you can't see them first. 
What I don't quite understand is that I think ebay businesses (and these can I think be one man bands working from home) can and maybe have to publish an address, which would just allow folk to pop round to check over something they had seen listed.


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## wafter (28 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I don't know about ebay but I think paypal has very sophisticated ways of preventing folk from setting up other accounts to get round issues.
> Yes ebay doesn't like communication other than through its messaging systems - makes it tricky buying bikes as you can't see them first.
> What I don't quite understand is that I think ebay businesses (and these can I think be one man bands working from home) can and maybe have to publish an address, which would just allow folk to pop round to check over something they had seen listed.


Crikey - surely ebay haven't gone so far in their censorship as to effectively prevent the viewing of items prior to bidding?


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## Blue Hills (28 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Crikey - surely ebay haven't gone so far in their censorship as to effectively prevent the viewing of items prior to bidding?


They did a while ago I think.
I used to look at bikes before bidding but they made this very difficult/all but impossible.
I got involved in a very lengthy online chat with an ebay bod about whether you could see what you were bidding on or not and got a right load of waffle and evasion, which essentially in the end pretty much said you couldn't.
They have very sophisticated systems in place to find folk trying to swap contact details of any sort in questions to the seller etc.
I would now only buy bikes I could collect, not any where there is the expense of delivery - would make any falling out with the seller more fraught I assume.
I suppose one can appreciate their desire to stop folk cutting them out of the deal, but it does make things tricky.
Luckily I have never paid more than £30 for an ebay bike (have bought 3) so that does kind of simplify things. A neighbour of mine bought a fairly pricey carbon bike on delivery - maybe I'm old fashioned but I thought that mad.


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## wafter (28 Sep 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> They did a while ago I think.
> I used to look at bikes before bidding but they made this very difficult/all but impossible.
> I got involved in a very lengthy online chat with an ebay bod about whether you could see what you were bidding on or not and got a right load of waffle and evasion, which essentially in the end pretty much said you couldn't.
> They have very sophisticated systems in place to find folk trying to swap contact details of any sort in questions to the seller etc.
> ...


Wow - how utterly ridiculous 

I can't believe people still use the site if they're pulling crap like this tbh - who in their right mind would buy anything of any value used without viewing it first? Waffle and evasion sounds about right IME; usually with a good dose of arrogance and condescention too.

I've got around the message constraints before (spaces separating characters in phone numbers and email addresses, leaving out the telltail "@"..) I guess their algorithms are getting more sophisticated all the time but it sounds like a worthy challenge if I see something I like!


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## Illaveago (28 Sep 2020)

I managed to get round the eBay censorship once years ago. It was to a chap in the USA. We weren't allowed to exchange contact details so I Googled the chap's company and managed to get an email to them from there . We exchanged a few emails about shipping and in the end decided that it would be easier for him to arrange them . The item arrived safely and he was over the moon .


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## Gunk (28 Sep 2020)

Gumtree works well but stuff has to be cheap, I use it for sub £100 bikes.


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## Blue Hills (29 Sep 2020)

Gunk said:


> Gumtree works well but stuff has to be cheap, I use it for sub £100 bikes.


why don't folk look for more expensive bikes on there?
I rather like gumtree but I have the idea that there are some dodgy sellers on there.
(not counting the two psychotic camberwell east european women)


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## bagpuss (29 Sep 2020)

Agree with all the comments regarding selling via the bay . 
I think they are no longer interested in supporting private sellers .
When they use statements like item out of stock....whose item is it!!!! theirs?????
Stopped been any fun when VAT got slapped on . 

Found cycles jumbles the best place to sell unwanted bike components .Good crack ,meeting like minded folk ,plenty of butties,tea &cake always on offer, Half a day out .Sadly due to the pandemic they have been few and far between.


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## wafter (29 Sep 2020)

Well... the ofo's just been collected. I left the FB marketplace listing live until the bike had gone, and sod's law I got a message about it last night (at the £20 higher asking price ).

Never mind, one less thing to worry about I guess.


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## Alembicbassman (30 Sep 2020)

Having sold my 2008 Carrera winter bike peak Covid frenzy for £270 I picked up this Argos special for £50 locally. Seller had done one 300 mile charity ride.

Frame isn't too bad, forks are like iron girders though.

Sold the cheap wheels / tyres / freewheel for £20 and fitted a set of Mavic Open Elite wheels with tyres I bought a couple of years ago for £35. Added a 7 speed cassette for £10 and an ASDA chain for £4.

Just need to buy some mudguards using my £10 Halfords voucher they sent to me after I complained they didn't have a £7.99 chain in stock for click and collect.

Cheap cycling !


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## further (30 Sep 2020)

I take it you mean from Argos the retailer not Argos the frame builder of Bristol .


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## Alembicbassman (30 Sep 2020)

further said:


> I take it you mean from Argos the retailer not Argos the frame builder of Bristol .



Yep the Argos owned by Sainsbury's

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8031820


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## further (1 Oct 2020)

Thanks for clearing that up


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## Gunk (3 Oct 2020)

This will be an interesting test of the market. I picked this up today, but due to now working full time again and having too many other projects on the go I'm going to stick it on ebay as it is, it is 100% original and a really easy restoration for someone.


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## Reynard (3 Oct 2020)

The uptake of adult and teen bikes at Revive in Witchford has definitely slowed in the last couple of weeks. Some decent bikes have been stuck there for a little while now, whereas at most they'd only be there for two, maybe three days before being snapped up.

The teen full-susser BSO - things that normally fly out of there - have had no takers of late.


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## Drago (4 Oct 2020)

Gunk said:


> This will be an interesting test of the market. I picked this up today, but due to now working full time again and having too many other projects on the go I'm going to stick it on ebay as it is, it is 100% original and a really easy restoration for someone.
> 
> View attachment 550462
> 
> ...


But the market is a bit warped at the moment. A year ago a classic bike enthusiast would be the target market. Todaybthats just as likely to be bought by someone wanting a decent but cheapish bike.

And thats the nice thing about bikes. A bike that was nice to ride decades ago will, if its in good order, be equally nice to ride today. Other items may also functuon equally well, such as cars, minidisc players, etc, but the march of fashion and the need to impress the neighbours takes priority over utulity. With bikes function has always been the prime reason for buying.


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## Gunk (4 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> But the market is a bit warped at the moment. A year ago a classic bike enthusiast would be the target market. Todaybthats just as likely to be bought by someone wanting a decent but cheapish bike.
> 
> And thats the nice thing about bikes. A bike that was nice to ride decades ago will, if its in good order, be equally nice to ride today. Other items may also functuon equally well, such as cars, minidisc players, etc, but the march of fashion and the need to impress the neighbours takes priority over utulity. With bikes function has always been the prime reason for buying.



After owning modern bikes for many years and then going back to older bikes (I never quite felt the love with modern tackle) IMO the older stuff is much nicer to ride, not as fast, but I'm not looking to shave seconds off my times.


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## Smokin Joe (4 Oct 2020)

Gunk said:


> After owning modern bikes for many years and then going back to older bikes (I never quite felt the love with modern tackle) IMO the older stuff is much nicer to ride, not as fast, but I'm not looking to shave seconds off my times.


The older bikes are certainly nicer to look at.


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## wafter (4 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> But the market is a bit warped at the moment. A year ago a classic bike enthusiast would be the target market. Todaybthats just as likely to be bought by someone wanting a decent but cheapish bike.
> 
> And thats the nice thing about bikes. A bike that was nice to ride decades ago will, if its in good order, be equally nice to ride today. Other items may also functuon equally well, such as cars, minidisc players, etc, but the march of fashion and the need to impress the neighbours takes priority over utulity. With bikes function has always been the prime reason for buying.


I don't think that's necessarily the case tbh. While I can appreciate the argument for the 'rona fuelling a Maoist-style bicycle revolution, I don't really think the sense of necessity goes that deep. I reckon for most potential new blood looking to buy because of the pandemic it's a shiny new bike or bust.. 

I really don't think the will exists (certainly anymore, maybe at the beginning) to significantly drive up the desirability of old gear by the great unwashed; especially when they represent seemingly antiquated unknown quantities. While it's undeniable that the shops have been picked bare of new gear, IMO by far the biggest market for old road bike remains the stalward enthusiast.


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## Gunk (4 Oct 2020)

wafter said:


> by far the biggest market for old road bike remains the stalward enthusiast.



And hipsters


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## wafter (4 Oct 2020)

Gunk said:


> And hipsters


Only so they can ruin them with a "fixie" conversion then try to flip them on ebay for three times what anyone with any sense / taste would pay for their dephiled creation


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## AuroraSaab (4 Oct 2020)

Just back from lunch at Wetherspoons near the big Evans shop in Trafford Park. The shop seemed well stocked with lots of new bikes out, whereas a couple of weeks ago there was a lot of empty space. Few deals and reductions though and the shop was busy so I suppose the demand is still there without the need to discount.


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## biggs682 (8 Oct 2020)

I love this time of year for buying second hand bikes


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## davidphilips (8 Oct 2020)

biggs682 said:


> I love this time of year for buying second hand bikes



Always a bright side, not a good time to buy but its a great time to sell?


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## biggs682 (8 Oct 2020)

davidphilips said:


> Always a bright side, not a good time to buy but its a great time to sell?


I have seen a few nicely priced bikes being offered for sale due to not being used and or bad weather . 

But have also sold a few as well which is good.


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## Gunk (8 Oct 2020)

My Raleigh is doing well, I thought it was worth about £30, it’ll probably make £100


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## yo vanilla (8 Oct 2020)

There are 225 bikes listed on my local Craigslist. I'd say on a quick glance a good half are little kids bikes, most of the rest are old, basic, $100 range bikes. I caught just a couple higher-end, I saw one or two in the $500 range and one at $1,100. Thinking back to last year... I think there was a bit more choice in better machinery, and more volume, but nearly the same overall.


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## Alembicbassman (8 Oct 2020)

The used market may soon be the only place to buy rim braked bikes. The new stuff is moving towards disc. I've had a few disc braked bikes, hydraulic and cable, and never got on with them. Just a bit too fiddly to set up and they make horrible scraping noises.


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## Gunk (10 Oct 2020)

The Flyer made £80 about twice as much as a year ago.


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## DCLane (10 Oct 2020)

I've just bought almost the same bike as I sold - but with a lower groupset and extra bits - for £170 less than I sold mine for.

The used market's weakening at the top end.


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## Gunk (10 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> The used market's weakening at the top end.


 
I only operate in the bottom end 😂


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## biggs682 (12 Oct 2020)

Listed a few over the weekend and had offers on a couple one of which has been accepted the other is being considered .


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## further (12 Oct 2020)

Put a Boardman ADV for sale Thursday, sold Friday £50.00 profit


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## matticus (12 Oct 2020)

Alembicbassman said:


> The used market may soon be the only place to buy rim braked bikes. The new stuff is moving towards disc. I've had a few disc braked bikes, hydraulic and cable, and never got on with them. Just a bit too fiddly to set up and they make horrible scraping noises.


Not a problem - steel and Ti framesets last almost forever


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## jowwy (13 Oct 2020)

disc framesets are hard to come by thats for sure........


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