# Low cost folding tandem on the train



## johncantor (4 Dec 2017)

I recently wrote up our experience and modifications to an Ecosmo folding tandem. We took it to France on the train and had a great time.
This might be of interest to some.
http://foldingtandem.blogspot.co.uk/


----------



## steveindenmark (5 Dec 2017)

Hi John. Thanks for posting this. I found it very interesting. I would like to get my partner Jannie on a tandem but she refuses point blank.

I dont know if this would help you standing the bike up. I use these stands from Rose bikes which attach to the wheels QR lever. They work so well that I have recently bought 4 for my bikes. Very well engineered and a good price. They take a minute to fit.

I like the fact that the crossbars are at different heights, it makes it look odd and thats a good thing.
https://www.rosebikes.dk/article/rose-rastmaxx-qr-1-rear-mount-kickstand/aid:2671712


----------



## alicat (5 Dec 2017)

Top job! It sounds like you have had fun adapting it.

How did you get across the channel?


----------



## welsh dragon (5 Dec 2017)

They arn't bad bikes. I bought an Ecosmo folding bike not a tandem. Cheap as chips and does what it says on the tin.


----------



## Pale Rider (7 Dec 2017)

welsh dragon said:


> They arn't bad bikes. I bought an Ecosmo folding bike not a tandem. Cheap as chips and does what it says on the tin.



The fact it got the OP and partner across France fully loaded and towing is a good endorsement.

Paying thousands for a bike is no guarantee of quality.

I recall a thread on here a few years ago about some ludicrously expensive German 20" wheel tandem which had fallen apart under very light use.

What's worse, the manufacturer and retailer appeared to be very uninterested in sorting the problem. 

Can't recall if we ever found out what happened, but the matter seemed to be heading for the county court.


----------



## Dave 123 (7 Dec 2017)

Thanks for that @johncantor , an interesting read.


----------



## Bodhbh (19 Dec 2017)

I read somewhere small wheels and tandems don't really mix due to handling issues. As I've never ridden a tandem I can't see why - I guess it's not a problem?


----------



## chriscross1966 (21 Dec 2017)

Bodhbh said:


> I read somewhere small wheels and tandems don't really mix due to handling issues. As I've never ridden a tandem I can't see why - I guess it's not a problem?



I'd have thought that the quick steering and slightly twitchy nature of small-wheelers in general (and I speak as an owner of four Bropmtons and a Moulton Mini here) would make it a bit of a tough time for the stoker, at least the pilot feels like they have some control.... or possibly it's the other way round, the pilot gets tired quickly due to having to constantly correct the hunting behaviour of the front wheel with a much heavier bike....


----------



## User10119 (15 Jan 2018)

chriscross1966 said:


> I'd have thought that the quick steering and slightly twitchy nature of small-wheelers in general (and I speak as an owner of four Bropmtons and a Moulton Mini here) would make it a bit of a tough time for the stoker, at least the pilot feels like they have some control.... or possibly it's the other way round, the pilot gets tired quickly due to having to constantly correct the hunting behaviour of the front wheel with a much heavier bike....



We have a small wheeled Circe Helios and it's very stable. On a couple of recent icy days I opted to ride the helios, stokerless, for the commute in place of my hybrid because it feels so much more sure-footed!


----------



## evaluationexpert (29 Jan 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> Hi John. Thanks for posting this. I found it very interesting. I would like to get my partner Jannie on a tandem but she refuses point blank.
> 
> I dont know if this would help you standing the bike up. I use these stands from Rose bikes which attach to the wheels QR lever. They work so well that I have recently bought 4 for my bikes. Very well engineered and a good price. They take a minute to fit.
> 
> ...



Not sure if a Hase Pino would suit, I am thinking about one, high cost but I recently met some people who had done Canada E-W and California N-S on a Hase Pino plus pull along trolley. They got it all on the plane, apparently, as the Hase comes into two pieces. Need a longer test drive first.


----------



## johncantor (30 Jun 2019)

alicat said:


> Top job! It sounds like you have had fun adapting it.
> 
> How did you get across the channel?


We have only gone across on a ferry from Portsmouth or Plymouth to Normandy/Brittany. We were shocked though at the xtra charge for the little trailer. The trailer cost more than the Bike!! 2nd time, we dissmantled the trailer and strapped it to the bike to save that cost


----------



## johncantor (30 Jun 2019)

Bodhbh said:


> I read somewhere small wheels and tandems don't really mix due to handling issues. As I've never ridden a tandem I can't see why - I guess it's not a problem?


We find the 20" tandem just as good as our 26" wheel tandem. In fact it seems quite responsive and sure-footed


----------



## Sixmile (2 Jul 2019)

Great write up @johncantor I really enjoyed reading that. I hired a Circe Helios a few months ago and rode for a few days touring with with 6 y.o. as stoker and a 5 y.o. on a seat over the rear wheel. I've been really keen on buying a Helios as our own but they're just so expensive. The Ecosmo certainly is a lot cheaper and may be an option for us with a little tinkering. Thanks again and here's to many more trips for you guys!


----------



## Freda (27 Aug 2019)

@johncantor Hi John. I am looking to get one of these folding tandems. I have a knee problem, so find it difficult to get on and off our normal tandem. Would you know what is the height of the crossbar for the rear rider from the ground please ? Many thanks.


----------



## brunobranson (7 Sep 2019)

Freda said:


> @johncantor Hi John. I am looking to get one of these folding tandems. I have a knee problem, so find it difficult to get on and off our normal tandem. Would you know what is the height of the crossbar for the rear rider from the ground please ? Many thanks.


Hi Freda, just measured mine, 60cm


----------



## brunobranson (7 Sep 2019)

Great article John!! Just done the rear wheel to get higher ratios, also would like to do the chain ring to get even higher. Now thinking about the stand, which relies on the front wheel staying straight as it is so far back.


----------



## Shrimpy (15 Aug 2020)

John, great write up. Thanks very much. I've just posted this as a reply to your write up and will copy it here:

I've just bought a new one this week (August 2020). I've been riding/building/modifying tandems and folding bikes all my life and have 35 years tandeming under my belt. Here is my take on gears:

Yes the current models come with the 14-28 freewheel and now a 36T chainring. This is a drop down from the 42T chainring on John's older bike. I assume this was to generate a lower hill climbing gear because, as we know, tandems do not climb so well. Trouble is, this gives a gear range of 25.71" to 51.43". This is fine uphill but useless anywhere else. Basically at 51.43" top you are really spinning at 9mph and have to coast at 10mph until speed drops. No good on a tandem. This is not a criticism of the product which is built to a price remember. So, what to do? Well I've considered ALL possible options and have concluded there is only one perfect upgrade for the bike which retains the very low hill climbing gear a tandem needs alonsgside an acceptable top gear for decent cruising speed. I have ordered the parts and will update here when complete and tested. First up is to ditch the 36T drive chainring and go with a 46T instead (yes there is frame clearance, just). This is a simple £13.72 upgrade from Ebay. Next is an 11-34 freewheel (Megarange) similar to John's cassette. If you can not go above 46T chainring (which you can't) on a 20" folder then you NEED an 11T sprocket, anything else is a pointless upgrade. Such freewheels are very rare and no longer made by Shimano because of the propensity to use a modern cassette. Of course, as John describes, a cassette needs a new hub and wheel re-build so a suitable freewheel is preferable if one wants a simpler solution. They can be found if you hunt around. Better still DNP make one especially for E-bikes with extra heavy duty freewheel components to handle the incredible torque generated by an electric motor. This is ideal for tandems that also generate double the torque of a normal bike. Said freewheel retails for £40 but is currently available on Amazon under DNP's new brand name of Drift Maniac for just £25.72 with free delivery. This is a bargain (e-bikes use standard freewheel hubs of course). Current link here:

View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XZ64MJ8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


This combination of 11-34 freewheel and 46T chain ring maintains the very low gear for steep hills of just 27.06" whilst giving a decent top end cruising gear of 83.64". This range is ample for a 20" wheeled bike that has to manage on what is effectively only 6 speeds with an extreme 'granny gear' for when needed.

As for chains you should change this too. If you increase anything you should increase the chain length to match. The existing chain may work but only by over tensioning the rear gear pullies which in turn causes the chain to jump when on the biggest sprockets. The existing chain is 107 links and seems correctly sized so my upgrade to 34 tooth freewheel and 46 tooth chainring requires a new chain length of 115 links so a standard 116 link chain is an ideal option.

Hope this is of use to other Ecosmo buyers. The result is a good all-round compromise at a bargain price that means I have a tandem that folds in seconds and fits, would you believe, into the boot of an Astra hatchback with all seats raised!


----------



## BoldonLad (23 Aug 2020)

To endorse @Shrimpy comments above.

I have made similar modifications ie: 11-34 FreeWheel (Drift Maniac), but with a 42T chainwheel, and, retained original chain.

This makes the bike much more pleasant to ride. 

The Drift Maniac Freewheel is 11-13-15-18-21-24-34, so for the most part on reasonably level terrain, the first three gears give suitable speed/cadence (well, for us, two 73 year olds). I don't have accurate cadence figures, but, according to my Garmin Edge, pedalling at a reasonable cadence for us, gives 17mph on the 11 tooth cog, which is perfectly adequate for our "coffee and cake" rides


----------



## johncantor (23 Aug 2020)

johncantor said:


> I recently wrote up our experience and modifications to an Ecosmo folding tandem. We took it to France on the train and had a great time.
> This might be of interest to some.
> http://foldingtandem.blogspot.co.uk/


A flurry of activity here on this blog. Some very good advice on how to improve the gears. Looks like e-bike quality cogs are an answer to wear-out-too-quickly items on a tandem


----------

