# Is Innertube Sealant different to Tubeless Sealant?



## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

Out on Saturday as as I was coming back home I could feel the back of the bike wasn't right it was moving around too much. About 1/2 mile from home I stopped & found a couple of large thorns in the tyre, so pulled them out, checked & could see anymore obvious ones, gave it a quick CO2 & made it home. But by the time to kettle had boiled it was flat again, taking the tyre off I found another 5 thorns which had gone through the innertube.

So I'm thinking of trying tubeless, tyres are Schwalbe Smart Sam's & rims are Alex Rims 6061H-T6 

Sorry where I am going with all this rambling is, if the sealant is the same, then why does the sealant not seal the tyre after it has escaped from the tube?


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## fossyant (12 Oct 2020)

The sealant needs to be on the inside of the tyre - if it's in the tube, it won't get a proper seal on the tyre as the 'tube' will be in the way.

That's got to be a record for thorns though.


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## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> The sealant needs to be on the inside of the tyre - if it's in the tube, it won't get a proper seal on the tyre as the 'tube' will be in the way.
> 
> That's got to be a record for thorns though.


Seeing the amount of sealant inside the tyre, not inside the tube where it should have been poised the question.

Looking for valves, current rims have Schrader but most of the ones I see on Fleecebay are Presta is that normal? Are there any good makes, or are they all the same?


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## Milkfloat (12 Oct 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Sorry where I am going with all this rambling is, if the sealant is the same, then why does the sealant not seal the tyre after it has escaped from the tube?



Firstly the sealant is not the same. Secondly, for tubeless you need a sealed system (pun intended). Therefore, you need tubeless rim tape to prevent air/sealant coming from the spoke holes, a tubeless valve and a great fit between rim and tyre.


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## fossyant (12 Oct 2020)

Most tubeless are presta - mainly as you can replace/remove the core for injecting more sealant (e.g. once a year).

I think the tube is stopping the sealant getting out into the 'tyre hole' properly


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## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> Therefore, you need tubeless rim tape to prevent air/sealant coming from the spoke holes, a tubeless valve and a great fit between rim and tyre.


I believe apart from all the thorn holes I have those requirements


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## I like Skol (12 Oct 2020)

I'm guessing this multiple thorn invasion isn't a regular thing? It also doesn't appear to have had a huge impact on your ride.
Going tubeless seems like a hell of a faff, expense and over-reaction.


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## Milkfloat (12 Oct 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I believe apart from all the thorn holes I have those requirements


If you are running tubes then for sure you don't have a tubeless valve. The majority of wheels that are tubeless ready don't even have tubeless rim tape, DAMHIK. With proper tubeless sealant thorn holes should not be a problem. Good luck with your trial.


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## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I'm guessing this multiple thorn invasion isn't a regular thing? It also doesn't appear to have had a huge impact on your ride.
> Going tubeless seems like a hell of a faff, expense and over-reaction.


Thank you for your sweeping statement that I am overreacting, you appear to know my circumstances better than I do. Apologies that was uncalled for, you caught just after having to deal with a moronic Yank.

With regards to expense, I've gone through 3x £10 (yes they are that much now) slime filled tubes in the last 3 months. So I'm not sure that tubeless would have been more expensive, I 'think' the rims are ready apart from the valve stem which aren't particularly expensive, so it's just an option I'm considering


Milkfloat said:


> If you are running tubes then for sure you don't have a tubeless valve. The majority of wheels that are tubeless ready don't even have tubeless rim tape, DAMHIK. With proper tubeless sealant thorn holes should not be a problem. Good luck with your trial.


Yep, Sorry missed the bit where you put valve, the rims do appear to be taped up, unless in my naivety I'm looking at the wrong thing & it's the wrong tape. I presume (always) dangerous, that I could fit a valve & then blow up the tyre onto the rim before putting slime in, or does the seal only work once slimed, air my come out of the thorn holes, but not out of the spokes & rim edge.


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## Jody (12 Oct 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I presume (always) dangerous, that I could fit a valve & then blow up the tyre onto the rim before putting slime in, or does the seal only work once slimed, air my come out of the thorn holes, but not out of the spokes & rim edge.



Are you using slime or just calling all sealant slime? Only reason I ask is my friend has had enough trouble with slime over the last few years. He swore by it but it didn't seem to stop punctures that well and made quite a mess when changing tyres. In the end he swapped to Stans 

Also, I'm not sure how easy it would be to fill the tyres via the valve using slime as its fairly viscous and sticky. I use a small syringe to fill through the valve.


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## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

Jody said:


> Are you using slime or just calling all sealant slime?


I'm using slime as a generic term, but currently I think I am using Slime tubes, although I have had tubes by other manufacturers including Halfords Bike Hut & Dr Sludge


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## Drago (12 Oct 2020)

5 thorns? Thats more punctures than ive suffered in 3 decades!


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## Phaeton (12 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> 5 thorns? Thats more punctures than ive suffered in 3 decades!


But I ride my bike it's not an ornament


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## Phaeton (17 Nov 2020)

Is this rim tubeless as it stands, other than a valve or does it need extra tape?


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## screenman (17 Nov 2020)

Drago said:


> 5 thorns? Thats more punctures than ive suffered in 3 decades!



You could soon change that around these parts, we have had miles of Hawthorne trimming going on lately, my record is 14 in one tubeless tyre, it did not stop any rides though.


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## T4tomo (17 Nov 2020)

that's standard rim-tape, tubeless stuff comes on roll e.g.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-tubeless-rim-tape-10m-roll

Have your tyres got decent puncture protection, like a kelvar band, as whilst bad luck happens, 5 or 7 thorns penetrating is quite unusual. (Ah from first post your on a mountain bike, not really up on my MTB tyres)


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## T4tomo (17 Nov 2020)

you also need to check the model of rim as the tyre needs to seal on the edge. 6061 is just a type of aluminium, there will be a model type somewhere. if they are generic cheap rims then probably not suitable for tubeless use.


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## Notafettler (17 Nov 2020)

Phaeton said:


> .
> 
> Looking for valves, current rims have Schrader but most of the ones I see on Fleecebay are Presta is that normal? Are there any good makes, or are they all the same?


You can put a insert into schrader rim so a presta fits. Pennies.
I find with slime you have to pump up after the flat to get a decent seal to get you home and sometimes a second time.


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## Notafettler (17 Nov 2020)

Is it possible to turn rims that are made for tube into tubeless?
My rims are Sputniks on 2 bikes the third is electric bike do not think they are top of range though.


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## I like Skol (17 Nov 2020)

Give it 10 years and the bike manufacturers will be selling us the latest, new-tech, tubed clincher tyres and claiming the 'new' system is a massive improvement over tubeless due to lack of compatibility issues, rapid road/trail side repairs, easy initial setup and tyres that can be fitted to and removed from rims by a child that doesn't have arms like a gorilla!

You heard it here first....


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## Notafettler (17 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Give it 10 years and the bike manufacturers will be selling us the latest, new-tech, tubed clincher tyres and claiming the 'new' system is a massive improvement over tubeless due to lack of compatibility issues, rapid road/trail side repairs, easy initial setup and tyres that can be fitted to and removed from rims by a child that doesn't have arms like a gorilla!
> 
> You heard it here first....




Why 10 years? Technology is moving quicker than that. Next week more like it!


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## andrew_s (18 Nov 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Out on Saturday as as I was coming back home I could feel the back of the bike wasn't right it was moving around too much. About 1/2 mile from home I stopped & found a couple of large thorns in the tyre, so pulled them out, checked & could see anymore obvious ones, gave it a quick CO2 & made it home. But by the time to kettle had boiled it was flat again


Pulling the thorns out is a mistake.

Thorns can plug the holes they've made quite well, so sealant has a much easier job of it. Pull the thorn out, and rather than a well plugged & sealed hole, you've got an unplugged and unsealed hole, which will promptly leak air, faster than it did in the first place.
Even without sealant, I've ridden 100 miles with a large thorn through the tyre and tube.

Sealant always works better in tubeless than it does in inner tubes because tyres don't stretch, but tubes do, and usually are when fully inflated.

Another point is that CO2 makes many sealants, go off, with the latex curdling into lumps


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## screenman (18 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Give it 10 years and the bike manufacturers will be selling us the latest, new-tech, tubed clincher tyres and claiming the 'new' system is a massive improvement over tubeless due to lack of compatibility issues, rapid road/trail side repairs, easy initial setup and tyres that can be fitted to and removed from rims by a child that doesn't have arms like a gorilla!
> 
> You heard it here first....




How would an inner tube stood up to the 14 thorns I pulled out of my tyre, none of which made me stop mid ride to fix? If they had them putting a plug in is extremely quick and easy, also fitting a tube would be no problem but in 10 of riding tubeless in this Hawthorne infected area I have never had to.


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## Tripster (18 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Give it 10 years and the bike manufacturers will be selling us the latest, new-tech, tubed clincher tyres and claiming the 'new' system is a massive improvement over tubeless due to lack of compatibility issues, rapid road/trail side repairs, easy initial setup and tyres that can be fitted to and removed from rims by a child that doesn't have arms like a gorilla!
> 
> You heard it here first....


Went tubeless on my MTB 3 years ago. Never had a single puncture in that time. Occasionally topped up fluid with a bottle I reach for on shelf in garage. Cant get much easier than that.
Fella down road from me commutes and rides weekends. 20 mile round trip commute & maybe 60-100 mile on a weekend ride. He said having switched to tubeless on road bike he would never switch back. He does not miss one bit fixing a puncture in pissing down rain on a dark cycle path and then turning up at work in a foul mood ☺️. So far no punctures with tubeless.


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## Phaeton (18 Nov 2020)

andrew_s said:


> Pulling the thorns out is a mistake.


But surely if you don't then with a tube once you pump it back up it's just going to make another hole in the tube, I can understand the logic in tubeless, but tubed?



T4tomo said:


> that's standard rim-tape, tubeless stuff comes on roll e.g


So that green rim tape just protects the tube from the end of the spokes, the one in the link does more?


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## Jody (18 Nov 2020)

If you want tubeless tape at a decent price then get some Tesa 4289. It's Stans but without their logo printed on it. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesa-Tap...oll-25-mm-wide-x-66-metres-long-/162354590164

I could be wrong but it looks like your rims already have tubeless tape on them. Is the tape stuck to the surface?


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## shep (18 Nov 2020)

I've seen Youtube vids and people use Gorilla Tape.


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## screenman (18 Nov 2020)

shep said:


> I've seen Youtube vids and people use Gorilla Tape.




That is what I use and it works extremely well.


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## T4tomo (18 Nov 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But surely if you don't then with a tube once you pump it back up it's just going to make another hole in the tube, I can understand the logic in tubeless, but tubed?
> 
> 
> So that green rim tape just protects the tube from the end of the spokes, the one in the link does more?


 he meant mid-ride - more likely to get home with the thorn still in, blocking up the hole, than if you pull it out as that exacerbates the deflationary process.

"tubeless" tape is adhesive so if forms an airtight seal. tape to protect a tube from spoke ends is usually a tad thicker and an elastic "loop" which helps keep it in place, but doesn't form an airtight seal as gaps in the seal occur as and when your rim flexes.


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## Phaeton (18 Nov 2020)

Jody said:


> I could be wrong but it looks like your rims already have tubeless tape on them. Is the tape stuck to the surface?


I think it is, but would have to take the tyre off to confirm, but they are Alex Rims 6061H-T6 I'm sure I looked a couple of years ago & they were tubeless ready but what that means exactly I don't know, searching their website today I can't find them.


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## Phaeton (18 Nov 2020)

T4tomo said:


> he meant mid-ride - more likely to get home with the thorn still in, blocking up the hole, than if you pull it out as that exacerbates the deflationary process.


Again I understand that in tubeless, but with tubed rims surely if you leave the thorn in, then the bit which has caused the puncture will just create another hole? Or that was my logic


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## Phaeton (18 Nov 2020)

For those interested Alexrims have confirmed that are not suitable for tubeless so it would mean new rims which is a route I won't be going down.


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