# Would you rather be sliced up or lasered? Or have a frayed braked cable shoved up you?



## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

I find myself in a situation where I am required to make a decision between either being sliced up or having lasers stuck in me. The slicing up option involves being put to sleep and more pain, so probably better drugs and more time off work. The lasering still requires an amount of slicing, but means I get to stay awake and watch, plus it uses lasers which are all futuristic and cool, and I'm hoping the surgeon would be up for reenacting that bit from Goldfinger, even though I bet he's done it a hundred times before.

So which would you choose and why?


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## Drago (28 Jun 2017)

Off to sleep for me, so knife it is.


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## welsh dragon (28 Jun 2017)

Laser beam for me. Im not squeamish, and you probably recover faster. Drago is a chicken S**t.


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## vickster (28 Jun 2017)

Laser but not watching  having had my leg sliced open in A&E, I would go through something surgical with an effective local (it wasn't for the leg due to the infection) but I certainly wouldn't want to watch

If the slice option was more effective and no more scarring, I'd go for that, no issue with GA (had enough over the last few years)


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## Alan O (28 Jun 2017)

Ooh, I'd love to be able to watch!


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## Cycleops (28 Jun 2017)

The last time I had a GA I felt dreadful for days after.


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## rugby bloke (28 Jun 2017)

I had a pacemaker fitted under a local anesthetic. I was terrified at the prospect as I am properly squeamish. On the day, I was so spaced by the drugs they gave me to stay calm that I did not mind at all. Even managed to have a random conversion with the surgeon.


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## swee'pea99 (28 Jun 2017)

I had my eyes lazered. That was fun. They take off the middle of your eye with a scalpel and flip it back, then start with the lazer. After a few seconds you can smell that disgusting smell you get when you burn hair or fingernails. What larks, Pip, what larks. 

Does that help?


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## Crackle (28 Jun 2017)

rugby bloke said:


> Even managed to have a random conversion with the surgeon


You put him over the posts?


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## davidphilips (28 Jun 2017)

First of hope its nothing serious and you make a full and speedy recovery no mater which you pick.

Perhaps best to talk over with the doctors as to which is best suited for your self as they hopefully have done both before and can advise on recovery times etc, good luck and fingers,toes and even bikes crossed for a good outcome.


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## Milkfloat (28 Jun 2017)

No contest - Laser. You get to watch and experience the smell. You probably get to go home sooner too.


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## RoubaixCube (28 Jun 2017)




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## I like Skol (28 Jun 2017)

Pardon the pun but 'cutting edge' technology always worries me. New techniques and steps forward in treatment are all well and good but if it is something recent I would always wonder if they had perfected it yet or were still using patients as guinea pigs to master the art?


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## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


>



Yes, that's the joke.


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## midlife (28 Jun 2017)

Just out of curiosity what are you having done?


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## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> If the slice option was more effective and no more scarring, I'd go for that, no issue with GA (had enough over the last few years)


Slice option gives slightly better cosmetic results.



User13710 said:


> I'm not squeamish, but I do find local anaesthetic injections a bit excruciating . The last one I had felt as if the guy was sawing my hand off.


That does concern me. The surgeon used that catch-all euphemism: _uncomfortable_.




Milkfloat said:


> No contest - Laser. You get to watch and experience the smell. You probably get to go home sooner too.





Cycleops said:


> The last time I had a GA I felt dreadful for days after


This worries me a bit. Recovery time is longer for the slice & dice, and we're supposed to be moving house imminently.



swee'pea99 said:


> I had my eyes lazered. That was fun. They take off the middle of your eye with a scalpel and flip it back, then start with the lazer. After a few seconds you can smell that disgusting smell you get when you burn hair or fingernails. What larks, Pip, what larks.
> 
> Does that help?


If I start to smell burning it'll be because they're making black pudding.



davidphilips said:


> Perhaps best to talk over with the doctors as to which is best suited for your self as they hopefully have done both before and can advise on recovery times etc, good luck and fingers,toes and even bikes crossed for a good outcome.


Same long term outcome for both. Surgeon recommended laser unless I'm particularly concerned about appearance. There's a vein/vain joke to be made in there somewhere I'm sure.



midlife said:


> Just out of curiosity what are you having done?


Would it change your opinion if you knew?


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## midlife (28 Jun 2017)

winjim said:


> Would it change your opinion if you knew?



All procedures have risk / benefit and an evidence base. I'd initially go by the figures........


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## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

midlife said:


> All procedures have risk / benefit and an evidence base. I'd initially go by the figures........


It's a rather mundane varicose vein procedure. Very commonplace although the laser treatment is newer.


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## RoubaixCube (28 Jun 2017)

winjim said:


> Yes, that's the joke.



It could also of been sliced n diced with fricking lasers


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## Donger (28 Jun 2017)

This thread is not what I expected it to be. ......Sounded more like it was on the subject of Glaswegian bar room threats.


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## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> It could also of been sliced n diced with fricking lasers


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## vickster (28 Jun 2017)

I'd go for the better cosmetic option even if slightly longer recover. Scars are for life, which is hopefully longer than post op recovery 

I live with a 6 inch long surgical scar on my lower back. 25 years ago keyhole wasn't available, today the scar would be minimal. I can't see it obviously but it does bother me to some degree.

I also have a 2" scar on my elbow, now my surgeon is able to do tennis elbow release arthroscopically, so I'd have a couple of 5mm scars, like I do on my shoulder and knees (way too many crocked joints)


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## jay clock (28 Jun 2017)

Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind
Anytime


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2017)

I like Skol said:


> Pardon the pun but 'cutting edge' technology always worries me. New techniques and steps forward in treatment are all well and good but if it is something recent I would always wonder if they had perfected it yet or were still using patients as guinea pigs to master the art?


I feel the same way.

When I fell ill with a _certain condition_, I was put on the conventional medication for it. My consultant offered me the option of a brand, spanking new medication but I declined. I felt happier taking something that doctors had 60 years experience with rather then something that had just got through medical trials and had only been in use for a year or two. I told him that I didn't want to act as a guinea pig helping to uncover unexpected side effects. He rubbished the idea that any drug that had passed the trials could have problems. My response was - _Thalidomide_? 

Fast forward 15 months and the _certain condition_ was back. Back to the consultant to discuss treatment options. He had clearly forgotten the original conversation because he told me that we should stick to the conventional medication; no point in me effectively acting as a guinea pig on the brand, spanking new medication - I mean, look what happened with the side effects of Thalidomide!


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## Alan O (28 Jun 2017)

User13710 said:


> As the surgeon was giving the injection, he said cheerfully, 'Slight scratch coming up.' I do wish they wouldn't say that!


Would you have preferred the old days when you'd have had a small prick?


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## Alan O (28 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> I live with a 6 inch long surgical scar on my lower back. 25 years ago keyhole wasn't available, today the scar would be minimal. I can't see it obviously but it does bother me to some degree.


A friend from many years ago had a congenital abnormality of the cartilage in the knee, which grew extra bits which needed surgical removal. When she had the first one done she was left with considerable scarring, but by the time the other one needed doing there was a keyhole procedure available and she ended up with just three tiny pinpoint scars - it was very impressive.


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## Levo-Lon (28 Jun 2017)

I watched my colonoscopy in full colour...quite interesting watching stuff like that..
Be laser for me every time..


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## Dan B (28 Jun 2017)

Not sure a laser colonoscopy is my idea of a good time, but each to their own


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## Milkfloat (28 Jun 2017)

winjim said:


> It's a rather mundane varicose vein procedure. Very commonplace although the laser treatment is newer.



I was under the impression that cutting and stripping out the vein is worse than 'uncomfortable' and up there with 'bloody painful'? I also thought that the recovery time was far less with the laser.


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## I like Skol (28 Jun 2017)

That Resident Evil laser scene kind of puts me off.....


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## winjim (28 Jun 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> I was under the impression that cutting and stripping out the vein is worse than 'uncomfortable' and up there with 'bloody painful'? I also thought that the recovery time was far less with the laser.


I believe that's the case, yes.


vickster said:


> I'd go for the better cosmetic option even if slightly longer recover. Scars are for life, which is hopefully longer than post op recovery


I'm not too worried about scarring. The issue is that with the laser, the varicose veins aren't removed completely, they just fry the larger vein downstream, which forces the blood to return via the deep veins, so they can still carry blood and be a bit unsightly.

I might take some before and after photos to show you all, my leg is quite impressively disgusting and bulgy at the moment.


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## Tin Pot (28 Jun 2017)

In life I tend to find that asking people to do things in ways they don't want to usually leads to poor results. Ask yourself, do people choose to become surgeons because they *don't* like cutting people up?


Plus lasers must, of course, always be mounted on sharks.


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## Alan O (28 Jun 2017)

meta lon said:


> I watched my colonoscopy in full colour...


What, brown?


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2017)

Last op I had under a local, the bloody stuff didn't work. The pain was nasty. 

Had two GA ops and was fine.


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## Bazzer (28 Jun 2017)

vickster said:


> *I'd go for the better cosmetic option even if slightly longer recover. Scars are for life, which is hopefully longer than post op recovery*
> 
> I live with a 6 inch long surgical scar on my lower back. 25 years ago keyhole wasn't available, today the scar would be minimal. I can't see it obviously but it does bother me to some degree.
> 
> I also have a 2" scar on my elbow, now my surgeon is able to do tennis elbow release arthroscopically, so I'd have a couple of 5mm scars, like I do on my shoulder and knees (way too many crocked joints)



^ ^ ^This^ ^ ^
I have quite a large stomach scar from surgery which is now routinely by keyhole and a scar from broken femur surgery is much bigger and visible.


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## machew (28 Jun 2017)




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## ufkacbln (28 Jun 2017)

Allegedly....

The author Richard Gordon spoke about taking his first blood sample

In the days were consultant ruled the roost, his first patient was the wife of a Consultant

He uttered the immortal words.. "Just a small prick"

She replied "Most of his junior Doctors are"


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## david k (4 Jul 2017)

swee'pea99 said:


> I had my eyes lazered. That was fun. They take off the middle of your eye with a scalpel and flip it back, then start with the lazer. After a few seconds you can smell that disgusting smell you get when you burn hair or fingernails. What larks, Pip, what larks.
> 
> Does that help?


That sounds horrendous!


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## slowmotion (5 Jul 2017)

I would go for whichever option gives you Tramadol for post-op pain relief. Marvelous stuff.


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## swee'pea99 (5 Jul 2017)

david k said:


> That sounds horrendous!


That was the fun part. 

Then the anaesthetic wore off...


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## winjim (5 Jul 2017)

OK, I'm adding another option to the poll since it would seem that my surgeon has a shiny fun new toy that he's quite keen to try out. Basically it's a metal wire that they shove inside you, which rotates to mash you up from the inside whilst simultaneously spraying some chemicals around to finish the job. I'm imagining it like a frayed brake cable covered in bleach. He's going to phone for a chat about it so we'll see.


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## NorthernDave (5 Jul 2017)

Laser beams, definitely. I'm imagining it would be like a Jean Michel Jarre gig..?


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## postman (6 Jul 2017)

Gall Bladder removal five years ago.First patient in at 08-00.Nurse said just a small prick Mr Mee.Yes well i have been waiting on that cold draughty corridor twenty mins.


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## winjim (27 Jul 2017)

Today's the day. I'm going in, wish me luck.


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## Alan O (27 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> Today's the day. I'm going in, wish me luck.


Luck!!!


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (27 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> Today's the day. I'm going in, wish me luck.


Best of luck. 

Personally I'd go with the option for best recovery and sod the scaring. But then I have a badly scarred left calf (+100 stitches to a dog bite), a badly scarred left wrist (15 ops), a bad scar across my abdomen and finally a 4 inch scar on my back.


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## winjim (27 Jul 2017)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Best of luck.
> 
> Personally I'd go with the option for best recovery and sod the scaring. But then I have a badly scarred left calf (+100 stitches to a dog bite), a badly scarred left wrist (15 ops), a bad scar across my abdomen and finally a 4 inch scar on my back.


I've gone for the brake cable and bleach, mainly because it's the one with the least pain and best recovery. It is pretty new though, they've only done about 20 patients at this unit, so I'm a bit of a pioneer really. No good data on long term outcomes but if it doesn't work properly I can come back later and get lasered.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (27 Jul 2017)

New toy sounds good


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## winjim (27 Jul 2017)

It is done. I'm out and waiting for my wife to pick up some sushi for lunch.

Pretty quick and easy procedure. I could feel them inserting the catheter and there's a sort of warm vibrating feeling as they switch the machine on and draw it back through the vein but it's not really that uncomfortable. There's sort of a weird hot feeling inside my leg now but it's fine really.

Now it's just compression stockings for a couple of weeks and moderate exercise. So no cycling for a bit which is probably a good thing as I'm not allowed to bathe or shower either.


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## LiamW (28 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> I find myself in a situation where I am required to make a decision between either being sliced up or having lasers stuck in me. The slicing up option involves being put to sleep and more pain, so probably better drugs and more time off work. The lasering still requires an amount of slicing, but means I get to stay awake and watch, plus it uses lasers which are all futuristic and cool, and I'm hoping the surgeon would be up for reenacting that bit from Goldfinger, even though I bet he's done it a hundred times before.
> 
> So which would you choose and why?



I had a hip replacement 4 years ago, I was numbed from the waist down and was semi conscious. I was sliced and diced and the top of leg sawn off, so I picked the 1st one.

Can't remember any of it bar the bloke in a butchers apron with a full face clear visor.

No idea why he was there, or maybe I was hallucinating


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## DCBassman (8 Aug 2017)

User13710 said:


> As the surgeon was giving the injection, he said cheerfully, 'Slight scratch coming up.' I do wish they wouldn't say that! When I saw him for the follow-up I fed back that I had found the injection very painful (I cried, and the nurse who was assisting was rather concerned), and he looked completely disbelieving. I think it would be better to treat the patient like a grown-up, and say that the injection will be quite painful. Then if the person doesn't find it so, they feel much happier than I did throughout the subsequent procedure (carpal tunnel surgery).
> 
> Having said all that, I would still opt for a local if it was a sensible option - it meant I could just get the bus home afterwards .


LA can be excruciating depending on where you're having it. Personal experience says eyes and ears are bad. Testicles none too pleasant either!


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## lazybloke (8 Aug 2017)

DCBassman said:


> LA can be excruciating depending on where you're having it. Personal experience says eyes and ears are bad. Testicles none too pleasant either!



LA in the thyroid is unpleasant, similar to increasing pressure on the gonads!Eye-watering rather than excruciating.


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