# Earphones whilst riding - yes or no - ?



## simongt (17 Jun 2016)

My personal take is no, simply that anything that distracts from the task in hand i.e., concentrating what is going on around you is a bad thing, especially in traffic. Also, I don't like the feeling of being 'cut off' from the world. 
What I do find surprising is that according to two traffic policemen I asked, it isn't illegal to wear earphones whilst driving, despite it being banned in many states in the USA.


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## gaz71 (17 Jun 2016)

As much as id like to wear earphones whilst riding i wont as i want to be 100% concentrated on whats going on around me.


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## raleighnut (17 Jun 2016)

I often wear em. It's not like car drivers 'listen out' for cyclists passing em is it.


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## Dayvo (17 Jun 2016)

Without. _Au naturel_ for me. 

I like to hear the birds, wind, trees rustling and time go by without the sound of music.


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## ianrauk (17 Jun 2016)

Its been done to death and in great depth on here before.

But no. But not because of not being able to hear my surroundings or suchlike but because I just cant be arsed with the faff.


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## Garry A (17 Jun 2016)

No, never. I like to hear what's going on around me and don't really listen to music anyway.


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## Sillyoldman (17 Jun 2016)

I use some that sit in front of your ear on the boney bit. They are called Aftershokz.. You can hear traffic and surrounding noise through your lug holes as normal.. Work really well


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## Brandane (17 Jun 2016)

On roads no. On NCN disused railway type paths, I do sometimes.
Whilst driving a 44 tonne lorry, yes if it's a long boring motorway run but not in town or heavy traffic.


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## Drago (17 Jun 2016)

Here we go...


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## classic33 (18 Jun 2016)

No, you miss the sounds that are there on a bike ride.


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## Accy cyclist (18 Jun 2016)

Not for me. I like to hear what's approaching and things like gear changing so i can judge what that driver behind me is going to do next. Besides, i was told by the audiology nurse years ago when i went for a hearing test that constant use of headphones (i usually had the volume up to about 8 out of 10) as they were called then,had led to my slight sound loss and that further use would make it worse. I haven't worn them since.


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## marzjennings (18 Jun 2016)

Yes and often on full or almost full volume. 

Touchy subject and folks have a tendency to get bitchy on either side of the argument. Also see helmets, red light jumping, pavement cycling, etc.


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## Globalti (18 Jun 2016)

I have enough trouble hearing cars sneaking up behind me, without blocking my ears. 

Why would I want to listen to music with the roar of the wind over the top?

And why wouldn't I want to hear the call of the curlew and the twitter of the birdies when I'm riding anyway?


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## Lonestar (18 Jun 2016)

Drago said:


> Here we go...



Is that a yes or no?



marzjennings said:


> Yes and often on full or almost full volume.
> 
> Touchy subject and folks have a tendency to get bitchy on either side of the argument. Also see helmets, red light jumping, pavement cycling, etc.



Two are breaking the law there and whether helmets or headphones are worn is not an offence in this country AFAIK.Pavement cycling is legal in some places or something like that.

I don't think headphones are the biggest problem.I think peoples awareness of traffic is whether wearing headphones or not.


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## dave r (18 Jun 2016)

No


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## outlash (18 Jun 2016)

The only thing I like to be plugged into when I'm riding is the environment around me.


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## mustang1 (18 Jun 2016)

I used to think it's a bad idea but then I started wearing them too. I keep the music low so whenever I'm travelling at any kind of speed, I can't hear it. I only get to hear music when I'm stopped at lights. 

But then I stopped. Not because I found them dangerous but I prefer to listen to ride stats instead which tell me every so often how the ride is going.


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## Jimidh (18 Jun 2016)

No but only because I like the sound of bike riding - the wind, the freewheel, sound of the tyres in the road, birds and my wheezing while going up hills.


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## Turdus philomelos (18 Jun 2016)

Often the wind noise blocks out the sound of what's behind me, which is a bit unnerving. 

Brave folk who do it intentionally.


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## ufkacbln (18 Jun 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Without. _Au naturel_ for me.
> 
> I like to hear the birds, wind, trees rustling and time go by without the sound of music.



I agree totally, Julie Andrews does nothing for me


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## Dayvo (18 Jun 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> I agree totally, Julie Andrews does nothing for me



What about _Vienna_?


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## ufkacbln (18 Jun 2016)

I didn't realise she had recorded that


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## Old jon (18 Jun 2016)

No.
I can just about do one thing at a time. On a good day.


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## Jody (18 Jun 2016)

No issues with it but appreciate why people wouldn't.


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## Kajjal (18 Jun 2016)

No i prefer to hear cars etc. coming up behind me and ride mainly in the countryside so the sounds are part of the ride.


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## Tint1n (18 Jun 2016)

I use bone conductive headphones, can hear your music but also everything that is going on around me


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## wheresthetorch (18 Jun 2016)

No - extra weight.


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## Andrew_P (18 Jun 2016)

Pardon? Hang I will turn the music down. Oh hang on I can now hear that bus approaching better leap out their way first! Have we covered how deaf people cope with cycling yet? Cars with mega music systems? Why drivers don't need to listen but cyclists need all their senses on full alert? (apart from common). Sorry. Carry on


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## Keith Oates (18 Jun 2016)

No, because I don't want to hear it when I'm riding and also I have nothing to play the music on anyway.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## leedsmick (18 Jun 2016)

I do. Combine two loves at the same time. And i sing loudly when theres nobody about!


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## Steady (18 Jun 2016)

Personally no. 

I have done in the past and found it safe with music on low and I've found I can still hear the things I want to, but there's an extra traffic awareness that's missing when plugged in. 

Such as the ever so quiet sound of an engine starting that's parked up in a drive way, and yes we all know the onus is on the car driver to reverse out with safely with the consideration of all vehicles on the road but I'd rather not be pointing that out from the ground with an exhaust poking into my face. 

That's my personal choice, I don't instinctively see a cyclist with ear phones in and think they're a wally, that conclusion will be made by the way they cycle. 

So on road I cycle with no music, off-road small rides occasionally music.


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Jun 2016)

One only, in the nearside ear, when riding on the road, and then only occasionally.


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## Mrs M (18 Jun 2016)

Not usually on the road.
Only on holiday off road and when I'm alone and getting tired 
The music gees me on and gives me something to focus on  other than my tired wee leggies


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## threebikesmcginty (18 Jun 2016)

No, because helmets are useless.


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## JoshM (18 Jun 2016)

I've found that I don't hear much when moving anyway, too much wind noise which couples with my hearing loss anyway. To me the wind makes it difficult to distinguish it from the other noises so I'm quite happy to listen to an audio book on the ride.

Besides I'd listen to music in car so refuse to be bullied into not listening to my audio book just because drivers think that I shouldn't. 

Like others have said, wearing head phones doesn't mean you're not being aware of what is going on around you, and nor does not wearing head phones mean that you are being aware of what's around you.


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## Dayvo (18 Jun 2016)

Dayvo said:


> What about _Vienna_?





Cunobelin said:


> I didn't realise she had recorded that



whoooosh - obviously it means nothing to you. 


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DuCIGvsbMA


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## jefmcg (18 Jun 2016)

Yup. One ear piece, podcasts not music, which I find too distracting. I can still hear traffic. I find if the road requires my attention, I stop listening entirely, so I have concentration. Cars generally require quicker reaction time, but no one would ever mention if a car radio was on in a newspaper article about a RTC.


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## shouldbeinbed (18 Jun 2016)

raleighnut said:


> I often wear em. It's not like car drivers 'listen out' for cyclists passing em is it.


And we have plenty of bad driver posts on here, maybe if drivers weren't so cocooned and lost in their own little worlds of radio or mobile chat or music players"???

To answer the question: No I don't, I like to be part of the world and enjoy the sounds of the city or countryside as much as any prosaic safety concerns I have about self imposed distraction or plugging my ears up.


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## PBB (18 Jun 2016)

I do, to listen to talk podcasts rather than music. I'm not saying that's any better than music, we could argue worse due to concentration on the subject being talked about. 

I only do this on cycle paths because I find the traffic noise too much otherwise, that would result in me having to increase the volume - that probably would be unsafe. 

What I do find useful is the remote on the earphone cable on the iPhone that lets me answer a call whilst cycling along. I can answer it then stop to deal with the call which is much quicker than stopping first and trying to find the phone before it rings out!


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## DaveReading (18 Jun 2016)

I can never get them to stay in my ear when I'm still, let alone on a bike.


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## jefmcg (18 Jun 2016)

DaveReading said:


> I can never get them to stay in my ear when I'm still, let alone on a bike.


You need ones that suit your ears. Ears come in a variety of shapes. The old apple ones were awful for me, balancing until i moved my head, or coughed.


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## mickle (18 Jun 2016)

Yes. And loud.


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## Andrew_P (18 Jun 2016)




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## jefmcg (18 Jun 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> View attachment 132290


Is that @mickle?  I thought this was him.


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## Lakesideride (18 Jun 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Without. _Au naturel_ for me.
> 
> I like to hear the birds, wind, trees rustling and time go by without the sound of music.


Totally agree with you


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## Pat "5mph" (18 Jun 2016)

A definite no while riding on road from me.
I keep meaning to take headphones on long, boring canal rides, but so far I have never remembered to do this.


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## adamhearn (18 Jun 2016)

Yes, why not. Deaf people are allowed to drive and ride and they can hear sweet fa


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## HLaB (18 Jun 2016)

Yes on the turbo, on the road no


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## Cuchilo (18 Jun 2016)

No , multi tasking = shoot at everything .


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## Saluki (18 Jun 2016)

I often listen to music or the radio while riding. I have Aftershokz Bluez bone conduction headphones so there is nothing in my ears, so I can hear my tyres on the ground quite clearly. I do tend to press the pause button when in traffic, but on quiet roads or on trails, I listen to music. Sometimes I wear them but don't listen to music and just ride along, it depends on my mood.
I don't ride using earbuds though, I certainly don't ride with 'proper' headphones on, like a lot of people I see out and about.


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## Drago (19 Jun 2016)

I don't do it. Ive no objection to those that choose to do it, seeing as theres no proven detriment to doing so.


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## Bonus (19 Jun 2016)

I ride with headphones more often than not. I like music :-)


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## tyred (19 Jun 2016)

Headphones are useless - get a proper soundsystem on your bike


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## tudor_77 (19 Jun 2016)

No way, the roads are far too dangerous to enjoy music whilst riding. It is one of the reasons I am enjoying running so much these days because I can just put my music on and shut the world out.


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## Gary E (9 Nov 2017)

leedsmick said:


> I do. Combine two loves at the same time. And i sing loudly when theres nobody about!


I've gone round corners singing loudly only to find myself with an audience more than once! Head down, pedal faster


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## Gary E (9 Nov 2017)

I love listening to music when I'm in the gym or on the Turbo (and it definitely makes me put more effort in) but choose not to while out riding because I want to hear what's going on around me (again, my choice for my rides, not my opinion of others). I'm currently looking into Bone Conducting Headphones which may allow me to combine music and riding


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## si_c (9 Nov 2017)

Everyday on my commute. I find listening to music helps me focus.

I've not found for me that having headphones out makes me more aware of cars around me. Especially now it's darker and you can see headlights, I don't find I need to listen out for cars, I find shoulder checks are more reliable.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Absolutely not. Two reasons - one being the obvious safety consideration. 

The other is that I love to hear the sounds of the countryside as I ride through it. One of the beauties of cycling is the intimacy with the landscape it brings you - why shut off one of your prime senses? If I want to hear music I can listen to it at home or in the gym. My time in the saddle is special. I want it all.


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## Gary E (9 Nov 2017)

I have big ears, generally all I can hear is wind noise


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033117, member: 45"]have a different approach and capability to someone who chooses to block out sound that reduces risk.[/QUOTE]

What different approach and capability?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Nov 2017)

Cycling - no
Turbo or gym - ABSOLUTELY

Commuting on motorbike - I have earplugs that allow plenty of sound through but not the damaging wind noise frequencies, they happen to allow plenty of helmet intercom sound through, routinely have music on, occasionally phonecalls and sparingly, satnav directions.

YMMV


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

I want to get a pair that filters out screams, blaring horns and police sirens and just lets me enjoy the throb of the engine....


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## Inertia (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033117, member: 45"]That really isn't an argument is it? Deaf people have no choice, and live with little or no hearing permanently so have a different approach and capability to someone who chooses to block out sound that reduces risk.

It's personal choice, and if someone wants to wear headphones then that's up to them, but let's not pretend that it doesn't impair senses or have an impact on their awareness.[/QUOTE]
It does but the impact is on hearing which is one of the least useful senses for cycling and something you should never rely on. 

It could just be my headphones but they do not block out all sound, I can still hear plenty going on around me.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Inertia said:


> It does but the impact is on hearing which is one of the least useful senses for cycling and something you should never rely on.
> 
> It could just be my headphones but they do not block out all sound, I can still hear plenty going on around me.


You're kidding, right?


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033142, member: 45"]If you have long-term hearing loss you learn to allow for it. You become an expert at not hearing.[/QUOTE]

I'm none the wiser.

How does this different approach and/or capability manifest itself? What changes in that person's behaviour or actions?


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Adaptation


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## JoshM (9 Nov 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm none the wiser.
> 
> How does this different approach and/or capability manifest itself? What changes in that person's behaviour or actions?



I need to look at someone when Im talking to them so I can read their lips. If I'm having a serious discussion I need a quiet place with no background noise. I know that these things are probably true for people with normal hearing but they're essential for me. Dark pubs are a nightmare for a first date for me.


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## Jody (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> You're kidding, right?



I would have thought sight followed by balance would be the most useful of senses and not to rely on your hearing.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Balance is not a sense
(although it very much employs your inner ear)


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## Jody (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> Balance is not a sense
> (although it very much employs your inner ear)



That's debatable. You very much have a sense of balance through visual and other stimuli


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Jody said:


> That's debatable. You very much have a sense of balance through visual and other stimuli


It's not debatable at all.
We have five senses 
Sight
Hearing
Smell
Touch
Taste


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> It's highly debatable.
> Just because XTC didn't list proprioception and balance doesn't mean that they don't exist. Andy Partridge is a clever chap but he's not necessarily an authority on physiology.


It is most certainly not debatable
Five senses is what we have - six, if you want to include 'hunches'

And your 'hunch' that balance is a 'sense' is letting you down - it aint.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Which ladybird book did you get that from?


It is a fact.


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## Jody (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> It's not debatable at all.
> We have five senses
> Sight
> Hearing
> ...



Based on the old medieval definition of senses. Modern medicine has more senses, one of them being a sense of balance

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/sense


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Jody said:


> Based on the old medieval definition of senses. Modern medicine has more senses, one of them being a sense of balance
> 
> https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/sense


Sure - and a sense of fashion, a sense propriety, a sense of timing...


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## Ian H (9 Nov 2017)

Background music, especially in my ears, I find utterly unbearable—music, as with reading, demands concentration.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Yes...and a sense of humour....

Our unlimited number of senses....


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## jefmcg (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> It's not debatable at all.
> We have five senses
> Sight
> Hearing
> ...


Close your eyes. Now hold out your arm. Can you tell where your arm is? That's a sense, and a sense you can lose.

Or do you just want to continue in the same vein and talk about the 4 humours? Blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

...and your horse sense, and your common sense, and putting in your two cents....


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Close your eyes. Now hold out your arm. Can you tell where your arm is? That's a sense, and a sense you can lose.
> 
> Or do you just want to continue in the same vein and talk about the 4 humours? Blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm.


Six humours - your sense of humour and your vitreous humor


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033197, member: 45"]If you're deaf, you practice being deaf every minute of your day. Your body and brain have known nothing else since you became deaf, so it's expert in being able to manage with that sense missing.

Headphone-wearing cyclists are amateur deaf people. They're never going to be very good at it.

Note that comparing deaf people with headphone wearing cyclists isn't my idea, and I don't think it's a valid comparison.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I should have made it clearer but I was interested in what you were suggesting people with hearing impairment did differently while cycling.


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## jefmcg (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> Six humours - your sense of humour and your vitreous humor


Oh, I had assumed you weren't reading any science more recent than Hippocrates. 

Also marvelling that you don't sense pain.


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## Gary E (9 Nov 2017)

Common Sense - although that's often in very short supply!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033148, member: 45"]My motorcycle earplugs have a filter in that take out certain frequencies. It's weird having wind noise cut down but still being able to hear things like engine noises and voices.[/QUOTE]
Yep, mine are Alpine Motosafe race, the tour version were a couple of dB too low. The standard earplugs I used to get in work make me feel cut-off and almost claustrophobic.

I'm intrigued by the custom ear impression job if you have any experience


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033323, member: 45"]I've got hearology custom fits. They were doing free scans a while ago at the balloon fiesta in Bristol. They scan electronically, and say that it's better than using impressions as the putty pushes your ear out of shape before it sets.

They fit really well and as I said they really help you hear your surroundings while cutting out damaging wind noise. You can pick the colour, and the filter frequency. Not cheap though.[/QUOTE]
Ill have a google later. Thanks


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033251, member: 45"]They generally would have the ability to respond better to impaired hearing.

And they have no choice. Which is the only relevant point to be taken from the comparison.[/QUOTE]


I guess all I'm going to get are vague generalisations which don't answer my query.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> It's not debatable at all.
> We have five senses
> Sight
> Hearing
> ...



That's a rather narrow definition. And wrong. Or at least extremely oversimplified.

All our information about the world is derived from a complex combination of different sensory inputs. Taste, for example, isn't just sensed by the tongue, it's heavily influenced by what we can smell and see as well.

For a cyclist, hearing is part of the complex combination of sensory inputs that give us information about our surroundings, but the problem with hearing is that it is unreliable and often misleading, especially in urban environments. We are not bats. We cannot acquire accurate information about our surroundings from hearing alone. 

The sense of proprioception is even more important to cyclists than the sense of sight, and hearing is well down the list - in fact, we can manage to ride a bike perfectly well without it. We can't ride a bike without proprioception.

And anyone who thinks listening to music riding a bike is inherently unsafe would do well to provide some meaningful evidence to back up that claim - ideally something a bit more tangible than 'stands to reason' - otherwise I'll just ignore you the same as I ignore people who tell me it's unsafe to ride a bike without a ****** on my head.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

smutchin said:


> That's a rather narrow definition. And wrong. Or at least extremely oversimplified.
> 
> All our information about the world is derived from a complex combination of different sensory inputs. Taste, for example, isn't just sensed by the tongue, it's heavily influenced by what we can smell and see as well.
> 
> ...


Please...feel free to ignore me. Walk right on by. I’d appreciate it in fact.


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## J1888 (9 Nov 2017)

If you count by bone conduction ones as 'earphones' then yes - listen to murder podcasts on my way in and home from work - can hear everything around me, so all good.


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## jefmcg (9 Nov 2017)

smutchin said:


> The sense of proprioception is even more important to cyclists than the sense of sight, and hearing is well down the list - in fact, we can manage to ride a bike perfectly well without it. We can't ride a bike without proprioception.


I don't think that's true. At the very most they are equally important, unless you are suggesting you can ride a bike more than a couple of metres without sight. You can somewhat compensate for loss of proprioception using your sight, which would probably get you at least the same distance. 

And for compensating - a blind cyclist would need to tandem and someone to captain it, one lacking proprioception would need a tricycle.


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## Leodis (9 Nov 2017)

For commuting no, training when out in the country I do use headphones.


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## Phaeton (9 Nov 2017)

As someone who has no hearing in my right ear since being 7 years old & has industrial hearing loss in my left ear so there are ranges I can't hear I see no issue in riding with headphones. For me personally it's all about the volume I like to have the music playing but at a nice level.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033405, member: 45"]We've done this many times[/QUOTE]

I know. That’s why I’m now just ignoring your anecdotal evidence rather than retreading the arguments.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> At the very most they are equally important, unless you are suggesting you can ride a bike more than a couple of metres without sight.



Depends on the environment. I reckon an experienced track cyclist could probably ride round the velodrome safely while blindfolded, as long as there was no one else on the track. 

You couldn’t do that without proprioception. 

I’m not sure you could even ride a trike safely without proprioception - you’d just keep crashing into things.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033519, member: 45"]No, you're choosing to dismiss a reasonably constructed argument based on physics, facts, experience and opinion by discrediting anecdata.[/QUOTE]

I have nothing new to add since the last time we discussed this. And nor do you, apparently. So it's probably for the best if we just leave it there.


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## lazybloke (9 Nov 2017)

Music whilst cycling?

No. I like to hear if there's chain rub, a change in surface, unexpected squeaks/rattles and so on.

I don't like hearing a hiss from my inner tubes. Would headphones prevent punctures?


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## EasyPeez (9 Nov 2017)

No for me, for both @Dayvo and @ianrauk 's reasons.


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## DCBassman (9 Nov 2017)

The only places that anyone should wear any kind of headphones is at home or on public transport. Never when in control of anything moving, including as a pedestrian. Simple and logical. Anything else is a dangerous impairment of your senses and makes you a danger to all around you.
I don't see even the possibility of a compromise to this.


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## Alan Frame (9 Nov 2017)

Personally, I view hearing as an important safety aid, so no earphones for me.


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## Jason (9 Nov 2017)

cycling is "unplugged me time" and for that reason is a NO


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## Tangoup51 (9 Nov 2017)

DCBassman said:


> The only places that anyone should wear any kind of headphones is at home or on public transport. Never when in control of anything moving, including as a pedestrian. Simple and logical. Anything else is a dangerous impairment of your senses and makes you a danger to all around you.
> I don't see even the possibility of a compromise to this.



So, motorcyclists shouldn't wear helmets and ride electric bikes because they're in danger of not being able to hear their surroundings?

Should all cars be convertible so we can hear more around us?

I seldom think it is Dangerous to not have the proper sense of hearing when driving or riding. - Perhaps it is slightly more advised for Cyclists as we get overtaken alot, but still, to say it is dangerous I find has no merit. - You can assume it is dangerous, but in the real world.. not so much.

Oh, and I never find music on the headphones to be distracting. The same way, I don't find listening to the radio in a car distracting so I don't think its all that dangerous but to each their own.


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## Tangoup51 (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033692, member: 45"]Did you not read the thread?[/QUOTE]

I read the title, the first message & Dcbassmans reply. 
\
Personally i dont think its dangerous. Too many people do and it bothers me.


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## gaijintendo (9 Nov 2017)

I'm with the majority here.

My worst near miss had a soundtrack to it. I hadn't really understood what was happening, but some kind of base instinct helped me pull the brakes.

After that point I figured I'd prefer every ounce of awareness available to me.


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## Phaeton (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033692, member: 45"]Did you not read the thread?[/QUOTE]
I have read it all, but don't understand the point you are trying to make?


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033405, member: 45"]wearing headphones when cycling still affects your hearing ability.[/QUOTE]

So does wearing a helmet. The question is to what degree does it affect it, and at what point does that significantly change the risk of riding your bike?


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## jefmcg (9 Nov 2017)

DCBassman said:


> I don't see even the possibility of a compromise to this.



This thread is full of people comprising. My BT headset in one ear doesn't block any appreciable outside noise, and my podcasts are no louder than a conversation with a nearby rider. 

I find podcasts add another dimension to my ride. My favorite example is listening to Will Self talking about psycho geography and different types of maps and their cultural meanings. I was following an audax route sheet as well as the thin line of a GPX track on my phone screen, two types of maps Self wasn't considering, which aided my understanding


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> So does wearing a helmet. The question is to what degree does it affect it, and at what point does that significantly change the risk of riding your bike?


I don’t know about your helmet but mine does not cover my ears


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## Phaeton (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I don’t know about your helmet but mine does not cover my ears


I don't know about your ears but as I've put above mine don't work correctly, so taking them as a starting point, you listening to music are probably at a huge advantage to me already, are you suggesting I shouldn't ride?


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Phaeton said:


> I don't know about your ears but as I've put above mine don't work correctly, so taking them as a starting point, you listening to music are probably at a huge advantage to me already, are you suggesting I shouldn't ride?


I have no idea what you mean here. One - I don’t listen to music while I ride. And I have not suggested that anybody shouldn’t ride, merely that having headphones on while riding is not a great idea. But if you actually read my posts, instead of jumping the gun, you would have known that my main argument against wearing headphones is that I very much prefer to hear the sounds of the countryside when I ride. Music I can listen to at home. Riding is special. I like being out and about and want to experience the countryside.


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## Profpointy (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I have no idea what you mean here. One - I don’t listen to music while I ride. And I have not suggested that anybody shouldn’t ride, merely that having headphones on while riding is not a great idea. But if you actually read my posts, instead of jumping the gun, you would have known that my main argument against wearing headphones is that I very much prefer to hear the sounds of the countryside when I ride. Music I can listen to at home. Riding is special. I like being out and about and want to experience the countryside.



Do you think it's Ok to drive a car with the windows shut and / or listen to music in the car?


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## gaijintendo (9 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> This thread is full of people comprising. My BT headset in one ear doesn't block any appreciable outside noise, and my podcasts are no louder than a conversation with a nearby rider.
> 
> I find podcasts add another dimension to my ride. My favorite example is listening to Will Self talking about psycho geography and different types of maps and their cultural meanings. I was following an audax route sheet as well as the thin line of a GPX track on my phone screen, two types of maps Self wasn't considering, which aided my understanding



One ear would probably destroy your spatial hearing more than both ears.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Do you think it's Ok to drive a car with the windows shut and / or listen to music in the car?


That comparison is truly idiotic. I have no further interest in this conversation. It is a waste of time.


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## Tim Hall (9 Nov 2017)

I wear headphones while riding. Sometimes they're silent and used for auto phone answering duties. Sometimes they have Osmand navigation cues. Sometimes they have radio 4. Sometimes they have music. Sometimes they do more than one of those things.


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## Phaeton (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I have no idea what you mean here.


That's probably because you have a closed mind & do not want to have a rational argument


hoopdriver said:


> One - I don’t listen to music while I ride. And I have not suggested that anybody shouldn’t ride, merely that having headphones on while riding is not a great idea. But if you actually read my posts, instead of jumping the gun, you would have known that my main argument against wearing headphones is that I very much prefer to hear the sounds of the countryside when I ride. Music I can listen to at home. Riding is special. I like being out and about and want to experience the countryside.


What I was eluding to had you bothered to try to follow, was, your hearing listening to music whilst riding is/was probably better than I can possibly start with, therefore if you do not think it safe for you to ride with headphones then you cannot possibly think it safe for me to ride at all


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I don’t know about your helmet but mine does not cover my ears



It does not have to cover your ears to affect your hearing. Helmets can and do cause significantly loud wind noise that it can drown out many other sounds including that of traffic.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> It does not have to cover your ears to affect your hearing. Helmets can and do cause significantly loud wind noise that it can drown out many other sounds including that of traffic.


I'd say you need to buy a better helmet.
Mine doesn't do any of those things.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> I'd say you need to buy a better helmet.
> Mine doesn't do any of those things.



Yes it does there is not a single cycle helmet that does not generate that wind noise.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

Phaeton said:


> That's probably because you have a closed mind & do not want to have a rational argument
> 
> What I was eluding to had you bothered to try to follow, was, your hearing listening to music whilst riding is/was probably better than I can possibly start with, therefore if you do not think it safe for you to ride with headphones then you cannot possibly think it safe for me to ride at all


Present a rational argument and I'll be more than happy to listen.

And I think you meant "alluding" not "eluding" unless you actually were trying to be elusive.

Anyway, I'm done. Bored now. I truly couldn't care less what you do.


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## NickNick (9 Nov 2017)

I don't think there's anything particularly dangerous about riding with headphones, it forces you to be that little bit more cautious and use your eyes properly rather than using them slightly less as you've made assumptions based on what you could/could not hear. The only issue if using in ear/noise cancelling headphones is not being able to hear emergency vehicle sirens, but that's easily solved by only using headphone in one ear.


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## hoopdriver (9 Nov 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> Yes it does there is not a single cycle helmet that does not generate that wind noise.


Perhaps if you turned your helmet around and didn't wear it backwards you'd have better luck.

Anyway, as above, bored now.


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## Fonze (9 Nov 2017)

I love listening to music as I ride , I go into my own little zone and listen to stuff I like .. I see no harm in it


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## NickNick (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5033922, member: 45"]Couldn't/shouldn't you be doing that anyway?[/QUOTE]

It's the sort of thing that happens at a quasi subconscious level, the brain is a master at piecing things together from various senses and joining the dots, it's not a process you have much control over.

E.g. how when you read you don't actual look at each letter in a word, but the start and finish of the word as well as the context your are reading the word in, your brain them assumes what the other letters are. It's how you can read "polite" as "police" on a poster formatted in a way that looks official.


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## NickNick (9 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5034116, member: 45"]So how does listening to music when you're cycling make this easier?[/QUOTE]

E.g. If your brain isn't receiving those subconscious queues when you're judge oncoming vehicles/their speed it has to use your eyes which is the most reliable method rather than piecing it together from a less attentive look and the sound/pitch/amplitude of the vehicle, which is much less reliable as your aural perception can/will be altered by wind speed, direction, atmospheric pressures...


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## NickNick (10 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5034123, member: 45"]Back to my question then; shouldn't/couldn't you be paying a more attentive look, and then have the added advantage of being able to hear more as well?[/QUOTE]

Re read post before last, it's not a process you have concious control over, it's how our brains work.


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## CanucksTraveller (10 Nov 2017)

Cod psychology and mental physiology aside, I'd still rather have all my senses in play when cycling thanks. No music for me.


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5034233, member: 45"]You seem to be arguing that a subconscious skim-view is more accurate than focused observation.[/QUOTE]As oppose to you who seem to be arguing just for the sake of it or to take any usefulness out of the post. 

Whether you listen to music/pod cast/audio book whilst riding is purely personal choice, along with how loud you also have the volume. You claim it is more dangerous to ride with headphones rather than without, or at the very least it is safer to ride without them. The problem I find with your stance & with @hoopdriver's is that both of your hearing is going to be far better than mine to start with, let's say the average person has hearing of 10, I suspect, as I am totally deaf in one ear & limited in the other I am probably a 3. So if somebody with hearing of 10 is listening to audio at a reasonable level their riding hearing is now 6 (subjective number) which you think is dangerous, then clearly I should not be allowed to ride on the road on a bike. Sorry but I cannot understand either of your blinkered views, this is a personal choice, there really is no safety issue here. Although granted if you are listening to music at full volume as you ride along you are likely to destroy your hearing over time but that is a completely different argument & one I would fully support.


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## hoopdriver (10 Nov 2017)

You are putting words and thoughts into the minds and mouths of others that are simply not there. I am weary to death of this utterly fruitless conversation but since you have mentioned me, I will respond this last time. As I have said, several times now during the course of this rambling thread, my main argument against wearing headphones while riding is a purely personal one in that I like to hear the sounds of the countryside around me. I enjoy the intimacy with the landscape that cycling brings me. I like to listen to nature - I can listen to music any old time home or in the gym, but I can hear the countryside like this only when I am cycling. I can't be any clearer than that, I shouldn't think. In terms of safety, yes - I believe one is far safer _not_ wearing headphones while cycling.

Now, you have hearing difficulties - I get that. And nowhere have I - or indeed anyone on this thread that I am aware of - suggested that hearing impaired people should not ride. So climb down off your high horse or unicycle or whatever it is you're on. The point is, if you do not _have_ to be hearing impaired on a bicycle, why do it? Hearing what is going on around you is very useful when you are on a bicycle - if you can, if you have that ability, it makes sense to use it.

But let me repeat - yet again - my primary reason for not wearing headphones and that is to enjoy the sounds of the countryside around me. Are we clear?


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> You are putting words and thoughts into the minds and mouths of others that are simply not there.





hoopdriver said:


> Absolutely not. Two reasons - one being the obvious safety consideration.


Please accept my apologies I thought it was you that wrote this post.


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## hoopdriver (10 Nov 2017)

Apology accepted.

Next time though, if you want to quote me, perhaps you will do me the courtesy of quoting the whole post - or at least the essence of it, not an edited excerpt, carefully tailored to suit your idiosyncratic viewpoint and love of victimhood

Done now. Good bye.


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## MontyVeda (10 Nov 2017)

I love the idea of it... great music, great scenery ...but thew wind noise just gets in the way. 

Plus there's the risk of being caught out by a sound effect... one had me on my knees in a shopping centre, thinking i was about to be blown to smithereens by an incoming missile. Thankfully it was just a noise in my headphones. I didn't half feel a berk though.


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## adscrim (10 Nov 2017)

MontyVeda said:


> ...but thew wind noise just gets in the way..



Cat-ears - they appear to double a comedy side-burns too!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cat-Ears-Classic-Cycling-Noise-Reducer/dp/B01KWEXUGY
https://www.cat-ears.com/


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> Absolutely not. Two reasons - one being the obvious safety consideration.
> 
> The other is that I love to hear the sounds of the countryside as I ride through it. One of the beauties of cycling is the intimacy with the landscape it brings you - why shut off one of your prime senses? If I want to hear music I can listen to it at home or in the gym. My time in the saddle is special. I want it all.



It's your choice to ride with or without earphones but your first stated reason for choosing not to is "the obvious safety consideration", and I was wondering: is this evidence-based or just a 'stands to reason' viewpoint?


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## BoldonLad (10 Nov 2017)

To answer the question: 

No earphones for me when cycling.

When riding motorcycle, earphones for passenger intercom / satnav only.

When driving i do listen to music, but, not at a level which means it can be heard outside the car.

To pose another question:

Do pedestrians, dog walkers or runners, who are "plugged in" to earphones and cannot hear your bell, as you approach from behind, annoy you?


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## MontyVeda (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> ...
> 
> To pose another question:
> 
> Do pedestrians, dog walkers or runners, who are "plugged in" to earphones and cannot hear your bell, as you approach from behind, annoy you?


Personally, no. No more than the hard of hearing annoy me, which they don't.


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Do pedestrians, dog walkers or runners, who are "plugged in" to earphones and cannot hear your bell, as you approach from behind, annoy you?


no actually it's cyclists who come up behind me & expect me to get out of their way which annoy me, I equate them with the drivers of cars who continue at the same speed or occasionally increase their speed when I cross the road.


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## BoldonLad (10 Nov 2017)

Phaeton said:


> no actually it's cyclists who come up behind me & expect me to get out of their way which annoy me, I equate them with the drivers of cars who continue at the same speed or occasionally increase their speed when I cross the road.



Ahh! so, you read the bit I typed in invisible ink, well done.

Where did I say I expected them to get out of my way?

When using a shared path, it is my practice to (gently) sound bell when approaching pedestrians, runners from behind, just to alert them to the fact I am there. I do this, because:

1. when I am walking (I don't run), in similar circumstances, I find it alarming to have a "silent" cyclist whizz past me, unannounced.

2. Mrs Boldonlad has twice been knocked from her bicycle by pedestrians who have stepped suddenly sideways, into her path, for no obvious reason, whilst she was passing them.


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Where did I say I expected them to get out of my way?


You didn't  but I have come across a few cyclist who believe they have the right of way & seem to think that ringing their bell vigorously means pedestrians should jump out of their way.


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## Jody (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> 2. Mrs Boldonlad has twice been knocked from her bicycle by pedestrians who have stepped suddenly sideways, into her path, for no obvious reason, whilst she was passing them.



Maybe she didn't leave sufficient room or anticipate their change in direction? If you ring your bell and get no acknowledgment then you have to be prepared.


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## Alan O (10 Nov 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> Done now. Good bye.


Hmm, how many times have you said that now in this thread?


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## Jody (10 Nov 2017)

Alan O said:


> Hmm, how many times have you said that now in this thread?



@Alan O has cast in. Let's see if you get a bite


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## Alan O (10 Nov 2017)

I don't use earphones when cycling, largely because I'm not very good at mental multi-tasking (and getting worse at it as I get older). If I play music, I find I always end up actually _listening_ to it rather than just having it in the background (and for that same reason I can't play music when I'm working), and I lose focus on my cycling surroundings.

In fact, I get the same thing even if I'm playing music while walking (which I do quite a lot), and I have to consciously switch focus when I'm crossing roads.

I do wear earphones when I'm using my turbo - or I watch the telly. I hate in-ear buds, mind, and I use the kind that clip over the ears like these...


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

Alan O said:


> I don't use earphones when cycling, largely because I'm not very good at mental multi-tasking (and getting worse at it as I get older). If I play music, I find I always end up actually _listening_ to it rather than just having it in the background (and for that same reason I can't play music when I'm working), and I lose focus on my cycling surroundings.


That's interesting as I find it the other way around, I find that the music has stopped as it's got to the end of the album, not realise that it had & no concept of when it had. Whilst working I have Radio4 playing & can often miss virtually a full program if I am engrossed in what I am doing. Maybe this is due to my impaired hearing & I naturally concentrate on the task in hand & blot out insignificant surrounding sound.


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Do pedestrians, dog walkers or runners, who are "plugged in" to earphones and cannot hear your bell, as you approach from behind, annoy you?



No, pedestrians are top of my road user hierarchy. 

Do they annoy you?


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## BoldonLad (10 Nov 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> No, pedestrians are top of my road user hierarchy.
> 
> Do they annoy you?



Not particularly.

Inconsiderate people annoy me, regardless of their mode of transport.


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## Jody (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Inconsiderate people annoy me, regardless of their mode of transport.



You are inconsiderate because you listen to music whilst out walking?


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## Phaeton (10 Nov 2017)

Jody said:


> You are inconsiderate because you listen to music whilst out walking?


Why is he?


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## Jody (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> Do pedestrians, dog walkers or runners, who are "plugged in" to earphones and cannot hear your bell, as you approach from behind, annoy you?





BoldonLad said:


> Inconsiderate people annoy me, regardless of their mode of transport.



I got the impression people who are "plugged in" annoy him as they can't hear his approach.


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## jefmcg (10 Nov 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> One ear would probably destroy your spatial hearing more than both ears.


No, it doesn't.


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## jefmcg (10 Nov 2017)

BoldonLad said:


> 2. Mrs Boldonlad has twice been knocked from her bicycle by pedestrians who have stepped suddenly sideways, into her path, for no obvious reason, whilst she was passing them.


Twice? Once is a misfortune, twice starts to look like carelessness. I never pass a pedestrian unless I know they have seen me or I can give them enough space to allow for sudden changes of direction.


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## BoldonLad (10 Nov 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Twice? Once is a misfortune, twice starts to look like carelessness. I never pass a pedestrian unless I know they have seen me or I can give them enough space to allow for sudden changes of direction.



Well, I suppose one of the occasions does not really count, since, Mrs BoldonLad was riding along the road, and pedestrian, who was walking on footpath as we approached, suddenly lurched to their left and knocked her off her bicycle (this was in Spain, hence, we were riding on the right). For what it is worth, Pedestrian (a teenage girl, was a Brit, and suitably apologetic, however that did not prevent the rest of our day being spoiled as we spent it in a Spanish A&E, instead of the beach).

We clearly need to practice being perfect.


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## bozmandb9 (10 Nov 2017)

Turdus philomelos said:


> Often the wind noise blocks out the sound of what's behind me, which is a bit unnerving.
> 
> Brave folk who do it intentionally.



I find wind noise makes it impossible to hear anything when I'm riding, especially when other riders try to communicate with me, except on rare occasions when the wind is blowing in just the right direction. Reading this thread, I'm beginning to think I might try earphones whilst cycling. I don't think I'd lose anything in terms of hearing cars behind me, since I can't hear them anyway.


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## DCBassman (10 Nov 2017)

I rarely go fast enough for wind noise to be a factor! And never have noticed noise from my lid, even at high speed.
Nothing I've read since my post has made the slightest difference to my view. Some of the posts have indeed strengthened it...


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## double0jedi (11 Nov 2017)

I use earphone when I ride, mostly the radio, sometimes music and very occasionally a podcast. I do my best to make sure that I am as aware as I can be of my surroundings, which I think is pretty good thing for any cyclist to do regardless of earphones or not.

I did use bone conducting earphones, which are excellent, you can still hear the environment and the music is like a background kind of thing. But when the Bluetooth started to play up, I went for some earphones but cut one off, so I just have the one in my left ear at a low to medium volume. It works well for me. That's the vital bit.. that it works well...FOR ME. I am aware that others seem to think it is not safe and I respect that but I feel that with either bone conduction or one ear free I still can be aware of my surroundings and enjoy some sounds at the same time.
I'm not looking to appreciate the subtle nuances of a concerto or expertly evaluate the tone of a symphony just a bit of a tune in the background, that sometimes can help with setting a rhythm. I see a lot of people, cyclists, runners, pedestrians and drivers who aren't that aware of what is going on around them, and most of them aren't using earphones. I think having your hearing impaired in some way doesn't automatically make you a more careless rider and having perfect auditory senses doesn't automatically mean you are completely in tune with your surroundings, personally I think it has more to do with the individual and what they can or can't cope with.

To be fair, go at any kind of speed and the wind noise tends to be louder than the radio anyway!


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## Dan B (11 Nov 2017)

I sometimes wear earphones when riding and have never noticed any difference in what i can hear as a result. On a cold day, though, it can be the devil's own job getting them out of my nostrils at the end of the ride


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## Tin Pot (11 Nov 2017)

double0jedi said:


> I use earphone when I ride, mostly the radio, sometimes music and very occasionally a podcast. I do my best to make sure that I am as aware as I can be of my surroundings, which I think is pretty good thing for any cyclist to do regardless of earphones or not.
> 
> I did use bone conducting earphones, which are excellent, you can still hear the environment and the music is like a background kind of thing. But when the Bluetooth started to play up, I went for some earphones but cut one off, so I just have the one in my left ear at a low to medium volume. It works well for me. That's the vital bit.. that it works well...FOR ME. I am aware that others seem to think it is not safe and I respect that but I feel that with either bone conduction or one ear free I still can be aware of my surroundings and enjoy some sounds at the same time.
> I'm not looking to appreciate the subtle nuances of a concerto or expertly evaluate the tone of a symphony just a bit of a tune in the background, that sometimes can help with setting a rhythm. I see a lot of people, cyclists, runners, pedestrians and drivers who aren't that aware of what is going on around them, and most of them aren't using earphones. I think having your hearing impaired in some way doesn't automatically make you a more careless rider and having perfect auditory senses doesn't automatically mean you are completely in tune with your surroundings, personally I think it has more to do with the individual and what they can or can't cope with.
> ...


+1

I used to. Two hours on A roads can be boring.

Usually podcasts, talking. 

You can still hear everything. Cars and wind are the deafening factors:

Pop one earbud out if you feel the need to hear better.


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## Gary E (11 Nov 2017)

Has anyone tried those Cat Ear (?) things to reduce wind noise? It'd be great to be able to communicate without constantly having to look sideways to hear any reply


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