# Crank drive vs hub drive



## gbb (11 Jan 2020)

Interesting ride today because I took my wifes RaleighMotus with Bosch crank drive as opposed to my Carrera with rear hub drive...and the difference is night and day in user feel.
Its windy out and my knees are sore so i used the top assistance against the wind, sport I think on the Bosch and tbh, because it's so quiet and theres nothing in the display that shows the motors current power use, you dont 'feel' what the motor is doing, which maybe a good thing, but I dont like it.
My Carrera with theSuntour system, while not as highly regarded as the Bosch, you get a whirr from the motor, that's nothing good or bad but the display shows the power output and you definitely feel the motor kick in, something I just didnt with the Bosch.
Surprised really, the Bosch didnt do it for me.

Opinions welcome.


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## Pale Rider (11 Jan 2020)

The Bosch motor is no ball of fire.

I've ridden a Carrera and found it had more poke than my Bosch bikes.

A Bosch bike would feel a bit flat if you jumped on one straight after a Carerra.

As regards power use, on the centrally mounted Bosch Intuvia display, there is a little LCD column which goes up and down in time with how much assistance the motor is offering.

Some bikes have a more compact display next to the handlebar grip which may not have that feature.


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## Slick (11 Jan 2020)

Mrs Slick has the Bosch motor and most cyclists we have been out with commented on how quiet it was as a good thing. I think its a thing of beauty but I haven't really got anything to compare it against.


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## aldus (11 Jan 2020)

And it also depends on WHICH Bosch motor you're riding... the entry-level one is definitely not a powerhouse (which is why I think they're moving away from it).

The Bosch is very smooth and it always makes me smile if I shift into a higher gear and gradually go through modes from "Eco" to "Tour" to "Sport" and have to keep shifting to higher and higher gears, passing people right and left until I hit the limiter  (gee, thanks EU for limiting my machine to 25kph! ).

To me, it is that incredibly smooth, linear application of "boost" that I find the most attractive of the Bosch motors.

But then, horses for courses.


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## Tenkaykev (11 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Mrs Slick has the Bosch motor and most cyclists we have been out with commented on how quiet it was as a good thing. I think its a thing of beauty but I haven't really got anything to compare it against.



A colleague and I once overhauled / rebuilt a Bosch motor/gearbox . Extremely well engineered planetary gearbox and quite ingenious electrical design. 
When we ran it up on the test bench after repair we remarked how smoothly it ran. 

It was in remarkable condition considering it had been lying in a forest somewhere in Russia for 70 years or more. ( it came out of a Focke Wulf 190, IIRC)


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## aldus (11 Jan 2020)

Tenkaykev said:


> A colleague and I once overhauled / rebuilt a Bosch motor/gearbox . Extremely well engineered planetary gearbox and quite ingenious electrical design.
> When we ran it up on the test bench after repair we remarked how smoothly it ran.
> 
> It was in remarkable condition considering it had been lying in a forest somewhere in Russia for 70 years or more. ( it came out of a Focke Wulf 190, IIRC)


For better or worse, German engineering.


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## Slick (11 Jan 2020)

Tenkaykev said:


> A colleague and I once overhauled / rebuilt a Bosch motor/gearbox . Extremely well engineered planetary gearbox and quite ingenious electrical design.
> When we ran it up on the test bench after repair we remarked how smoothly it ran.
> 
> It was in remarkable condition considering it had been lying in a forest somewhere in Russia for 70 years or more. ( it came out of a Focke Wulf 190, IIRC)


Mrs Slicks doesn't have quite the same provenance but would be good if it's still half as good. 

We might never know because as long as we avoid Castlemilk, no one is trying to shoot her down.


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## Pale Rider (11 Jan 2020)

aldus said:


> To me, it is that incredibly smooth, linear application of "boost" that I find the most attractive of the Bosch motors.



Bosch set out to provide a push cycling experience, but assisted.

The system does work very well.

I've ridden lots of other ebikes, and they are clunky in comparison to a lesser or greater degree.

Having said that, there other systems I would happily own.

Yamaha is pretty good, but still not as smooth as Bosch.


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## ebikeerwidnes (12 Jan 2020)

gbb said:


> Interesting ride today because I took my wifes RaleighMotus with Bosch crank drive as opposed to my Carrera with rear hub drive...and the difference is night and day in user feel.
> Its windy out and my knees are sore so i used the top assistance against the wind, sport I think on the Bosch and tbh, because it's so quiet and theres nothing in the display that shows the motors current power use, you dont 'feel' what the motor is doing, which maybe a good thing, but I dont like it.
> My Carrera with theSuntour system, while not as highly regarded as the Bosch, you get a whirr from the motor, that's nothing good or bad but the display shows the power output and you definitely feel the motor kick in, something I just didnt with the Bosch.
> Surprised really, the Bosch didnt do it for me.
> ...


Interesting - my wife has a Carrera with Suntour rear hub and all my previous ebikes ahve been rear hub drive. However I not have a Raleigh Motus so I have a very similar experience. I find the Bosch crank drive on the Motus far smoother and more sophisticated - but it does fell quite different to the rear motor - I think it has as much to do with the sensors as the motor. 
I can actually fool the Suntour system into doing all the work if I get the revs right - the Bosch always insists that I do at least some work! BTW by very old Powacycle had a throttle but I seldom used it because the motor would cut in at max power if I just spun the pedals slowly!

You comment about knowing the current power level is interesting becausee my base level Motus clearly displays the power level unless I deliberatly switch it to mileage mode - even then it is easy to check by pressing the + or - keys - but the Tour and Grand Tour models do seem to have posher displays!


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## gbb (12 Jan 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Interesting - my wife has a Carrera with Suntour rear hub and all my previous ebikes ahve been rear hub drive. However I not have a Raleigh Motus so I have a very similar experience. I find the Bosch crank drive on the Motus far smoother and more sophisticated - but it does fell quite different to the rear motor - I think it has as much to do with the sensors as the motor.
> I can actually fool the Suntour system into doing all the work if I get the revs right - the Bosch always insists that I do at least some work! BTW by very old Powacycle had a throttle but I seldom used it because the motor would cut in at max power if I just spun the pedals slowly!
> 
> You comment about knowing the current power level is interesting becausee my base level Motus clearly displays the power level unless I deliberatly switch it to mileage mode - even then it is easy to check by pressing the + or - keys - but the Tour and Grand Tour models do seem to have posher displays!


Tbf I havnt taken the time to see how the display is switched between modes, I must do that.


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## Mart44 (19 Jan 2020)

I've had my crank driven bike with the Bosch motor for well over a year now and have been very pleased with it. There was an initial problem with it not charging when plugged in, However that was nothing to do with the motor. A firmware update cured it. I'm not sure about the model of the motor but it makes no noticeable noise and seems responsive enough. On level 4 of assistance, it picks up speed very quickly but I mostly only use it at level one or two. 3 is good for road junctions where you want to nip across them smartly. This is the controller..







and the Scott bike itself..


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## Smudge (19 Jan 2020)

Mart44 said:


> I've had my crank driven bike with the Bosch motor for well over a year now and have been very pleased with it. There was an initial problem with it not charging when plugged in, However that was nothing to do with the motor. A firmware update cured it. I'm not sure about the model of the motor but it makes no noticeable noise and seems responsive enough. On level 4 of assistance, it picks up speed very quickly but I mostly only use it at level one or two. 3 is good for road junctions where you want to nip across them smartly. This is the controller..
> 
> View attachment 501178
> 
> ...



I like the look of that ebike. Good to see a hybrid ebike without the usual front suspension.
What is the fork made out of ?


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## Mart44 (19 Jan 2020)

Smudge said:


> I like the look of that ebike. Good to see a hybrid ebike without the usual front suspension.
> What is the fork made out of ?



It's an alloy. Certainly doesn't have the 'tink' of steel when it is tapped anyway.


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## Smudge (19 Jan 2020)

Mart44 said:


> It's an alloy. Certainly doesn't have the 'tink' of steel when it is tapped anyway.



Steel would probably be my first choice for a fork on an ebike, but alloy fork wouldn't stop me buying an ebike. Unlike suspension or carbon forks.
I may buy another ebike this year and will take a look at that Scott model if i do.


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## Pale Rider (19 Jan 2020)

Not being funny, but are you sure it's a Bosch bike?

I don't recognise the display, and the shape of the motor looks like a Brose to me.

Bosch also name their assistance levels, Eco, Tour, Sport, and Turbo.


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## Mart44 (19 Jan 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Not being funny, but are you sure it's a Bosch bike?
> 
> I don't recognise the display, and the shape of the motor looks like a Brose to me.
> 
> Bosch also name their assistance levels, Eco, Tour, Sport, and Turbo.



Oops! I beg your pardon. It is a Brose motor. Sorry


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## Pale Rider (19 Jan 2020)

Mart44 said:


> Oops! I beg your pardon. It is a Brose motor. Sorry



No worries, it's rather sad that I would know the difference.

The other clue was the snags you had.

No doubt there were quite a few niggly reliability problems with Brose compared to the relatively small numbers sold.

It's fundamentally sound, so should give you good service now you've licked it into shape.


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