# Perfect example of car-dependence



## Shut Up Legs (24 May 2014)

This morning was a typical Saturday morning: I walked 1.75km downhill to the nearest shopping complex, had breakfast there, bought some groceries, then walked home, uphill all the way, holding several bags of groceries. Not that difficult, you might say.

Except for some apparently it is! While eating breakfast, I read a newspaper, and wished I hadn't. The article below cites an example of a young woman who complains about taking 20 minutes to drive less than a mile to a gym. She could walk that distance, in the same time! Cases like these make me despair for our future. Here's the relevant quote from the article:


> A simple five-minute, 1.5km trip to the gym takes Simone Gould 20 minutes on a Sunday as she battles traffic through Glen Waverley.
> 
> “I allow half the time of the actual class just to get to the gym on time - everyone seems to be on the road at the same time,” she said.


^^^ How ironic: everyone's on the road at the same time .

The article is this one: http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...y-peakhour-crush/story-fnii5sms-1226929301262
Let me know if you can't read it, and I'll copy the article and photos so they can be viewed in this thread.

The article also has a go at cyclists, not surprising, given this is a predominantly anti-cyclist newspaper company, with the following:


> As Melbourne becomes a cycling city, more car spaces and lanes are being ripped out for bike lanes - putting pressure on other roads.
> 
> A lane on Princes Bridge was removed for cyclists last year, causing traffic to be held up on St Kilda Rd, Swan St Bridge and Southbank Blvd.


No mention of the benefits of "ripping" car lanes out for bike lanes. Also, the Princes Bridge example is poorly chosen, and biased reporting, because Melbourne's very own Lord Mayor is on record as stating that the introduction of bike lanes on this bridge didn't signficantly affect traffic flow, and of course I don't need to sell the health and environmental benefits to any of you.


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## matth411 (24 May 2014)

What are the odds that she is trying to drive to the gym to sit on a stationary bike. 
Car dependency is an epidemic for NEARLY everyone that has a car, I say nearly because the cyclists who drive. As an example of someone I know dependant on a car, my neighbour drives the whole 300 yards to the shop. Then moans when she needs petrol or puts on weight.


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## rb58 (24 May 2014)

matth411 said:


> What are the odds that she is trying to drive to the gym to sit on a stationary bike.


I see this all the time at my gym. Plenty of bike parking, right by main reception under a CCTV camera. Yet mine is usually the only bike there. Worse though, I only use the gym for spin classes and at least half the class are cyclists. It's as though they can't see that the bike is a form of transport - for them it's something to be used on 'sportives'.


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## the_mikey (24 May 2014)

I would love to ride to my gym, but if I was riding to the gym I wouldn't need to go to the gym. It would take me 3 hours to cycle to my gym from work though..


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## jefmcg (24 May 2014)

Why are we talking about riding? It's less than a mile, walk it.


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## summerdays (24 May 2014)

I would be so embarrassed to admit to a paper that it took so long to drive to the gym! It always amazes me quite how many cars there are in the sports centre car park, though I do see a fair number arrive by either foot or on a bike.


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## Shut Up Legs (24 May 2014)

summerdays said:


> I would be so embarrassed to admit to a paper that it took so long to drive to the gym! It always amazes me quite how many cars there are in the sports centre car park, though I do see a fair number arrive by either foot or on a bike.


What baffles me is that the paper reported this as if it was normal! No mention of alternatives, such as walking or riding to the gym, or just skipping the gym altogether in favour of walking or riding. It's just insanity.


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## rb58 (24 May 2014)

the_mikey said:


> I would love to ride to my gym, but if I was riding to the gym I wouldn't need to go to the gym. It would take me 3 hours to cycle to my gym from work though..


Lightweight 


jefmcg said:


> Why are we talking about riding? It's less than a mile, walk it.


Mine is about 2 miles away, but I usually take the 10 mile route. And the ride home is a good warm down.


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## Kevoffthetee (24 May 2014)

I'll admit to taking 10-15 mins in a car to do 2.5 miles to work, but only in the winter. (Costs nothing as it's a company car with free fuel)

I'm on the bike for 3/4 of the year unless it torrential


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## ColinJ (24 May 2014)




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## Shut Up Legs (24 May 2014)

ColinJ said:


> View attachment 46005


Yes, that was the very first image that sprung into my head as I read that article. I think I'll join you, if you don't mind...


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (24 May 2014)

matth411 said:


> What are the odds that she is trying to drive to the gym to sit on a stationary bike.
> Car dependency is an epidemic for NEARLY everyone that has a car, I say nearly because the cyclists who drive. As an example of someone I know dependant on a car, my neighbour drives the whole 300 yards to the shop. Then moans when she needs petrol or puts on weight.



Whilst sitting in the car at the local shops (on our way home from a much longer +50 mile trip) I watched my neighbour pull into the parallel parking outside the dry cleaners. He walked into the shop, got his dry cleaning, walked back to his car, moved it 25 metres down the road to be outside the next shop (3 doors down if that), got out of the car, went into spar type shop, come back out with a pint of milk, get back into his car and drive off. I kid not! He had come from the direction of our homes and left in that direction...


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## jefmcg (24 May 2014)

Simone should be being listed as part of the problem, not a victim of it. If all the people who made short trips found other ways of travelling, then the people who actually need to drive, like those going long distances, carrying loads, ferrying children to sporting events, driving elderly parents about etc would be able to do it efficiently. 

And Joseph, also in the article who is catching the train. It's a two or three mile trip in the inner suburbs of a huge city. Not having open roads is the price you pay for the other benefits of living centrally and so close to work.


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## ShipHill (27 May 2014)

When I was a rural cabbie (boooo!) my old boss told me a story once where a guy phoned for a cab to take him from The Queen's Head to the Nicedays shop in the same village.

Thinking they were not from the village my boss explained that the shop is directly opposite the pub.

"Yeah I know," came the reply "but it's raining and I don't want to get wet."

My boss took him and charged him the full £2.40 fare.


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## MarkF (27 May 2014)

There are 3 gyms near me, 2 mega ones, Nuffield Health Fitness & Wellbeing Centre () and a Marriot Hotel & Country Club (), these 2 have mega car parks always chock full. I use the 3rd, it has no car park and you put your bikes in the basement.


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## Tin Pot (28 May 2014)

You've gotta be pretty naïve to think everyone should stop driving to the gym.


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## stowie (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> You've gotta be pretty naïve to think everyone should stop driving to the gym.



Why? It is a classic case of using a transport option unwisely if the gym is within a couple of miles.


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## Tin Pot (28 May 2014)

stowie said:


> Why? It is a classic case of using a transport option unwisely if the gym is within a couple of miles.


Because people have plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons for driving to the gym. Isn't that obvious?


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## Archie_tect (28 May 2014)

TP, it does seem sensible to take exercise to get to and from a gym when it's within easy walking/ running/ cycling distance especially if the roads are constantly blocked with traffic when you have the time to go there, as in the OP's illustration. 

Mind you I don't understand why people take their dogs in cars to go for a walk or why people put bikes on the back of their cars to go for a bike ride, so I'm not really able to appreciate the reasoning.


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## Markymark (28 May 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> or why people put bikes on the back of their cars to go for a bike ride,


I do that. I live in London and its 10 miles unitl it gets nice. I could use up 20 miles of my cycling getting through the urban sprawl but sometimes I drive out and go for a longer ride in the counrty lanes.


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## snorri (28 May 2014)

Re the OP. 
What happened to the popular image of a land peopled by Crocodile Dundee type characters?


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## Archie_tect (28 May 2014)

They're still out in the bush somewhere, trying to get back.


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## stowie (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> Because people have plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons for driving to the gym. Isn't that obvious?



Clearly not. I occasionally drive my wife and daughter to the gym if it is raining. I don't class this a "legitimate" reason, it is a choice. I don't think my choice should be catered for over other people making other choices - indeed my choice generates externalities which are not present in other choices, so I would accept if my choice had this cost factored in. I suspect that in cities where driving short distances isn't the norm there aren't desolate gyms devoid of customers because they cannot get to a gym without a using a car.


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## GrasB (28 May 2014)

That theory works right up until you realise EVERY way you get to the gym has external consequences which need to be factored as additional costs of getting there. In fact requiring a gym to go to has a huge external cost factor... there is also external costs involved with having your own equipment or even doing non-equipment based exercise.


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## stowie (28 May 2014)

GrasB said:


> That theory works right up until you realise EVERY way you get to the gym has external consequences which need to be factored as additional costs of getting there. In fact requiring a gym to go to has a huge external cost factor... there is also external costs involved with having your own equipment or even doing non-equipment based exercise.



Well, I am assuming the gym is already there, and the externalities of the gym don't change due to the patrons' choice of transport. If one just looks at transport then the external costs of private car use is considerable against many of the alternatives. Add this up with all the local trips that involve other places than the gym and the whole thing adds up considerably.


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## Tin Pot (28 May 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> TP, it does seem sensible to take exercise to get to and from a gym when it's within easy walking/ running/ cycling distance especially if the roads are constantly blocked with traffic when you have the time to go there, as in the OP's illustration.
> 
> Mind you I don't understand why people take their dogs in cars to go for a walk or why people put bikes on the back of their cars to go for a bike ride, so I'm not really able to appreciate the reasoning.


Usually it's time.

For example, a woman might drop the kids off at school 09:00 and need to get to the gym fast to join a 9:30 class. Maybe she has a hair appointment at 11:00 and wants to be well dressed when she gets there.

Maybe she isn't runner, or cyclist but likes Body Pump class with her friends?

Extra points for first the person to argue with my choice of example, rather than the point it makes.

I train between four and (albeit rarely) eleven hours a week, the one hour that is at the gym is after work, and I always drive for the convenience. I can see why it would be a huge hassle for others.


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 May 2014)

snorri said:


> Re the OP.
> What happened to the popular image of a land peopled by Crocodile Dundee type characters?


If you click this link, you'll see that they all swam into the Venomous Bight.


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## Archie_tect (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> Usually it's time.
> 
> For example, a woman might drop the kids off at school 09:00 and need to get to the gym fast to join a 9:30 class. Maybe she has a hair appointment at 11:00 and wants to be well dressed when she gets there.
> 
> ...


Only flaw in your example is that the traffic-choked streets [to which your person contributes] prevents your person getting to any of their appointments on time... whereas if they walked they could: spend time with their children on the walk to school, walk to the hairdressers and to the gym without all the stress of being held up in queues.... if they all did that it's a plan without fault!


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## GrumpyGregry (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> Usually it's time.
> 
> For example, a woman might drop the kids off at school 09:00 and need to get to the gym fast to join a 9:30 class. Maybe she has a hair appointment at 11:00 and wants to be well dressed when she gets there.
> 
> ...


Your poor transport choices help kill 29000 people a year. Well done.


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## Tin Pot (28 May 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> Only flaw in your example is that the traffic-choked streets [to which your person contributes] prevents your person getting to any of their appointments on time... whereas if they walked they could: spend time with their children on the walk to school, walk to the hairdressers and to the gym without all the stress of being held up in queues.... if they all did that it's a plan without fault!



No traffic choked streets preventing me getting to the gym luckily - my example was to support why not everyone should be told to stop driving to the gym, and I think my example still stands


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## Tin Pot (28 May 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Your poor transport choices help kill 29000 people a year. Well done.


Ha ha !

Grumpy indeed.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> Ha ha !
> 
> Grumpy indeed.


Yes. Your convenience selfishness must trump all mustn't it. An attitude worthy of the most stereotypical driver.


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## jefmcg (28 May 2014)

snorri said:


> Re the OP.
> What happened to the popular image of a land peopled by Crocodile Dundee type characters?





> The latest figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation shows Australia has jumped from fifth to fourth fattest nation with 28.3 per cent of the adult population obese.


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## winjim (28 May 2014)

How about disabled people? Is it OK if they drive to the gym? Or those attending for rehab/physiotherapy? 

Or even how about those who just fancy a chill-out in the spa, because there's surely no irony or hypocrisy _there_?


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## snorri (28 May 2014)

Tin Pot said:


> Maybe she isn't runner, or cyclist but likes Body Pump class with her friends?


Or just adores the tasty sausage rolls and cakes at the gym?


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 May 2014)

A poll by Axa Car Insurance has revealed that the number of £70 parking tickets slapped on parents’ windscreens as they stop on the zig-zag safety lines outside schools has soared, from 14,564 in 2011 to 28,169 in 2013.


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## Shut Up Legs (28 May 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> If you click this link, you'll see that they all swam into the Venomous Bight.


... and greetings from the Kangaroo Barbecue!


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## Clanghead (31 May 2014)

While waiting for an interview at a recruitment consultant on a nearby business park, I picked up a brochure extolling the virtues of the local new-build housing estate, which quoted one happy resident: "It's great - from where I live it's only one minute's drive to work".

A good friend of mine was complaining about not being able to find anywhere to park outside her Weight Watchers' class because of all the other cars... at the parish hall which is about 500 yards from her house.

 indeed.


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## Steve H (31 May 2014)

This thread reminded me of this pic


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## Cuchilo (31 May 2014)

It always baffles me why my neighbours drive to the allotment and then block the roads in there rather than park in the car park . I can get there in 7mins on the bike if I go the direct route and slow . They sit in traffic as soon as they get out of the drive way !
They then think they are healthy for growing weeds and being outside all day doing nothing and drinking beer 
Although I am guilty of the last part


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## alans (1 Jun 2014)

I have neighbours who drive to the shops in the village High Street.
500 metres away
It takes them longer;door to door; to get in the car,drive down the road,park up & then walk from the car to the shop than it takes me to ride there & be half way back.
These same people complain about the cost of running a vehicle & also express a desire to be more healthy/fit & wish to lose weight.
You couldn't make it up

I did point out to one of 'em that her car runs on money & makes her fat.My bike runs on fat & saves me money.
I'm not certain she grasped the comparison.


I'm quite surprised,& even more pleased & impressed,that my teenage grand daughter has recently taken to walking from (redacted) to home.Approx 5km.
Saves her bus fare (probably already spent it in town) & "beneficial for my my health".


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## Markymark (10 Jun 2014)

This annoyed me so much. Someone close to us has a great primary school up the road. Like most parents in London (and probably up and down the country) school catchment areas is a major concern.

You've no problem, I said, its just a 5 minute walk, over the footbridge and to the school. 
Nope, we're just out of the catchment area (0.51 > 0.5 miles)! Really, I though yo are much closer? We are but the catchment area is by driving and to get around the tube line its 0.01 miles over the 0.5 miles catchment area and are approx 0.25 miles on foot.
The sad part is they'd only walk, most likely hardly ever drive yet they're outside because it's based on getting there by car.


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Jun 2014)

Kevoffthetee said:


> I'll admit to taking 10-15 mins in a car to do 2.5 miles to work, but only in the winter. (*Costs nothing as it's a company car with free fuel*)
> 
> I'm on the bike for 3/4 of the year unless it torrential



Apart from all the tax you pay on the benefit.


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## SpokeyDokey (24 Jun 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Your poor transport choices help kill 29000 people a year. Well done.



So there's not one single thing in your life that wasn't made possible by someone somewhere using a car/bus/truck?


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## Ganymede (24 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> This annoyed me so much. Someone close to us has a great primary school up the road. Like most parents in London (and probably up and down the country) school catchment areas is a major concern.
> 
> You've no problem, I said, its just a 5 minute walk, over the footbridge and to the school.
> Nope, we're just out of the catchment area (0.51 > 0.5 miles)! Really, I though yo are much closer? We are but the catchment area is by driving and to get around the tube line its 0.01 miles over the 0.5 miles catchment area and are approx 0.25 miles on foot.
> The sad part is they'd only walk, most likely hardly ever drive yet they're outside because it's based on getting there by car.


That's just disgusting.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jun 2014)

SpokeyDokey said:


> So there's not one single thing in your life that wasn't made possible by someone somewhere using a car/bus/truck?


What has that got to do with people driving to the gym in a single occupancy private car because it is convenient? Causing needless and completely avoidable pollution. Which kills people.

This thread is about car-dependency not bus/truck utility. This is a cycling forum, if folk want to be congratulated on placing their convenience over the health and welfare of others they might be better off seeking affirmation in a motoring forum.


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## Trickedem (24 Jun 2014)

A couple of weeks ago we stayed at the Comfort Hotel, Arundel. This is at the A27 Cross bush Services. We set out to walk into Arundel and discovered there is no way to enter or exit the site as a pedestrian without walking on the road. The sight lines on the road were such that we were at great danger of being knocked over by cars that probably wouldn't have expected to encounter us walking on THEIR road. It is ludicrous that this facility was allowed to be built without pedestrian access.


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## winjim (24 Jun 2014)

[QUOTE 3146959, member: 45"]Your second paragraph is a choice. The first isn't, or is less so.[/QUOTE]
Yes but in the second example there is no conflict in using the car, because fitness is not the objective.


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## palinurus (24 Jun 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> They then think they are healthy for growing weeds and being outside all day doing nothing and drinking beer



This is the best bit of having an allotment. While I'm drinking, the crops are working for me.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jun 2014)

Trickedem said:


> A couple of weeks ago we stayed at the Comfort Hotel, Arundel. This is at the A27 Cross bush Services. We set out to walk into Arundel and discovered there is no way to enter or exit the site as a pedestrian without walking on the road. The sight lines on the road were such that we were at great danger of being knocked over by cars that probably wouldn't have expected to encounter us walking on THEIR road. It is ludicrous that this facility was allowed to be built without pedestrian access.


Almost everything about, and associated with, that stretch of the A27, from east of Crossbush to Chichester, is a concrete indictment of what is wrong UK car culture.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (24 Jun 2014)

Well, someone was grumbling about the TdF today and the associated road closures and rather temporary traffic disruption
At a suggestion of walking to the destination (and getting a bus back when services resume later), "It's *SIX MILES* - I'm not superhuman!"

Then I realised that for many people, a mile is a long distance, and a six miler is a whole day out punctuated by benches, sit-downs, picnics and cake shops

I was car dependant up until about 2008 when I did buy a bike again and gingerly start riding (having an evening "test" ride to see if I could make the then 2.8 miles to work). As part of a campaign to get more active, I walked to Tesco. A LONG walk - yep, it's a whole 1.4 miles away, a 3 mile round trip, and I felt like I'd achieved something my doing that.

So I know it's easy to fall into, and feeling like six miles as a walk with purpose (as opposed to a day out somewhere scenic) is insurmountable isn't that ridiculous to some (most?)


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## Kins (24 Jun 2014)

I got rid of my car in 2012. I live in a rural town in Wales. Do I miss having a car, yes, about 3 or 4 times in 2 years. I have a mountain bike with panniers (which i got free from here!) and a little bar bag. Does me fine for shopping, carrying bits of bike to and from work, and genral bumbling about. Yes, it rains in Wales, a lot! But decent set of waterproofs and a nice wooly hat and it really doesn't matter. Snow and ice though is a pain, because everywhere round here is on a hill

Yes, I do get lifts in a car sometimes, and borrowed my Dads car on a few occasions. 

Its all about life choices and making the best of them. None will be perfect or cost effective. Some situations because of family, parents living miles away etc will make you unable to use a bike or walk or use public transport all the time. But if more people just took an extra 10 minutes to get from local A to B by walking, cycling, skipping, skateboarding, running, swimming (really?) or bungy jumping (ok your getting ridiculous now!) then the world would be a better place.

/preachover /startthechoirsinging


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## Ern1e (27 Jun 2014)

I also like @Kins got rid of the car ! have I really missed it ? well maybe on an odd occasion,I also use a mtb with panniers and some kind of bag any where I could put one for shopping etc.This has now been added to by use of a cargo trailer for larger items which may need to be moved, my thoughts on car dependancy ok they may fill a need if you have to travel excessive distances fast for some reason ! but I find trains and public transport quite acceptable these days.Plus at the moment around my area the road works are causing quite a hugh problem for vehicular traffic at times and it seems that the bike is the faster way from A to B.


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## Bad Company (9 Jul 2014)

Mrs BC & I use a gym/ tennis club 11 miles from home. We drive, it's easier and much more comfy!


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## Shut Up Legs (9 Jul 2014)

The comedy continues 
www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/east/hawthorne-family-trapped-by-parked-car-for-28-hours-call-for-uniform-towing-of-cars-in-driveways/story-fni9r0lo-1226983165096
Apparently, this family haven't heard of public transport or cycling, or would prefer to be "trapped" in their home for a day rather than use them. This is better than any fiction.


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## classic33 (10 Jul 2014)

victor said:


> The comedy continues
> www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/east/hawthorne-family-trapped-by-parked-car-for-28-hours-call-for-uniform-towing-of-cars-in-driveways/story-fni9r0lo-1226983165096
> Apparently, this family haven't heard of public transport or cycling, or would prefer to be "trapped" in their home for a day rather than use them. This is better than any fiction.


You made that up!


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