# CTC Challenge to motorcycles in bus lanes



## Riding in Circles (2 Oct 2010)

Article here.

Is this really going to happen? I was opposed to the introduction of motorcycles to bus lanes but it seems I have been proven wrong judging by the positive reports I have heard from cyclists in London, so why challenge this?


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## gaz (3 Oct 2010)

At times i hate motorcycles in bus lanes, some speed past you and don't give you enough space etc. etc..
But at times and especially when i get into croydon, where the scheme doesn't go, i think why not be in the bus lane?

Whilst the article tries to be bias against the ctc for doing what they are doing. They do say that there is no legal standing for this to continue and it is time for people to have their opinion. Otherwise these things could go on forever. Or should i say, they quoted the CTC saying that.

Some good comments thought (along with the usual nonsense) about working together. In the long run motorcyclists in bus lanes do no harm to cyclists as long as we look out for each other.


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## lynx (3 Oct 2010)

So can we do something about bus drivers, especially bendy bus drivers, and cabs?

Thats my personal bug.


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## dellzeqq (3 Oct 2010)

this article is in MCN. It's probably total bullshit. Why not e-mail Roger Geffen at CTC Towers and ask? 

Oh - and get rid of them. There's no reason to encourage motorcycling and the relatively tiny number of motorcyclists are both a nuisance and a threat.


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## ufkacbln (3 Oct 2010)

What is the CTC actually contesting?

I read this part of this at least as the actual extension of the trial itself:



> CTC says in its latest newsletter: ‘There is no legal provision for repeating an experimental traffic order once it reaches its 18-month expiry deadline.
> 
> 'Otherwise a highway authority could repeat their “experiments” indefinitely, without ever being required to conduct formal public consultation.


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## Norm (3 Oct 2010)

dellzeqq said:


> this article is in MCN. It's probably total bullshit. Why not e-mail Roger Geffen at CTC Towers and ask?


Did your "cyclists response" submission ever get published, DZ?


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## davefb (3 Oct 2010)

only cycled 300miles on my new bike,

I was surprised how some motorcyclists do seem to be just as unforgiving to cyclists as 'some' car drivers. I was surprised by this, i'd have thought they'd have known more about the issues you'd face.

and i particularly 'enjoy' having to dodge motocyclists in the cycle lanes and asl... 


amazing comments though, wow,,, maybe i should start driving my car with lack of consideration of motorbikes ?


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## dellzeqq (3 Oct 2010)

Norm said:


> Did your "cyclists response" submission ever get published, DZ?


nope. Your mate Guy is a girl's blouse.


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## Aperitif (5 Oct 2010)

dellzeqq said:


> this article is in MCN. It's probably total bullshit. Why not e-mail Roger Geffen at CTC Towers and ask?
> 
> Oh - and get rid of them. There's no reason to encourage motorcycling and the relatively tiny number of motorcyclists are both a nuisance and a threat.



I agree. Like gaz, I thought it a 'neutral' idea - giving a bit more space for everyone but it is just crap. Motorcyclists have fast-accelerating and swift stopping machines which often bully their way around the highways. Undertake / overtake - get your arm knocked as a bike accelerates just as you offer indication. Not EVERY biker, but they are a bit too rough to keep company with cyclists.
If there can't be maximum respect for bicycles then the bus lane thing is folly. Get to a set of lights and the exhaust pipe from bikes is pointing up and toward your face - why shouldn't they point downwards, for everyone's comfort by the way? (Oh - 'it's the sleek lines...sorry') And Wednesdays! Motorbikes bugger up Trafalgar Square because they don't want to pay to burn fuel in the centre of town and park their big fat butts on a bit of road - it is just so selfish. If you want the advantage of 'speed' and 'power' you f ing well pay for the privilege! Or get a bus.
I'm sure the majority of motorcyclists are responsible and are happy to take their place in the motorised cavalcade of commuters each morning. Leave the bus lane for cyclists to deal with themselves, other cyclists, buses and taxis, ta.
And stop pulling in, creating the motorised sandbar, and blowing that poxy exhaust up my nose.


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## Riding in Circles (6 Oct 2010)

User said:


> It's not bullshit. It appears that someone at National Office or on Council has exceeded their authority.
> 
> Matters are in hand - see your email.



I checked the CTC pages to make sure it was there before I posted the link to the MCN article. I knew some of the usual suspects would not be so vigilant of course, they never are.


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## Riding in Circles (6 Oct 2010)

Did I mention Simon?


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## Alan Whicker (7 Oct 2010)

I'm a scooterist as well as a cyclist. Maybe I'm imagining it, but there seem to be far fewer motorcycles/mopeds/scooters on the road than a couple of years back. I'm clearly biased, but I 100% agree with motorcycles being allowed in bus lanes. But yes, there are some world-class idiots out there - I've encountered them on my Vespa as well as on my Trek. Moped kidz, couriers and anyone with a number plate too small to be legal are the worst.

I wish the Police would taser-on-sight any motorbike seen in an ASL, though.


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## downfader (7 Oct 2010)

I noticed before that the MCN has a bit of a thing for the CTC and especially the LCC. A previous article on there was pretty badly written and seemed to point a finger at the wrong people. I see this one has incorrectly pointed out the CTC and has remained unchanged in the 5 days its been up. Not good practice.

As a whole I dont see the issue with motorcyclists sharing. However seeing the many, many videos on youtube of how bikers treat cyclists in the London area it seems as if the MCN are taking the same, dire "poor little put-upon motorist" line as other publications.

I do see no point however in extending the trial. Either do it or dont, they've had their study, it went well enough.


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## Alan Whicker (7 Oct 2010)

AdrianC said:


> Why? I am happy to have motorcyclists in front of me and gone. The only time the ASL issue has ever bothered me was when I couldn't get into one for motorcyclists.



Well, that's one reason right there.


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## StuartG (8 Oct 2010)

But what of we - who both ride powered and unpowered two wheelers?

Are we best placed to see both sides and can balance sharing the pain of all two wheelers against the dominance lethal force of 4+ wheelers? Hence I vote for co-existence.


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## Riding in Circles (8 Oct 2010)

StuartG said:


> But what of we - who both ride powered and unpowered two wheelers?
> 
> Are we best placed to see both sides and can balance sharing the pain of all two wheelers against the dominance lethal force of 4+ wheelers? Hence I vote for co-existence.



I ride both as well and think mixing the two is a recipe for disaster.


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## dellzeqq (8 Oct 2010)

yup - it appears that the Campaigns department has gone in to bat with CDF cash without consulting

- Councillors
- Local Groups
- London Region CTC

so, to be honest Catrike, I am embarrassed. And outraged. Our DA has contributed money to the CDF, and I can't see it happening again on my watch. If the LCC want to go to court, fine and dandy, but the CTC is supposed to be some kind of a democracy, and it would appear that the Campaigns Department (which has strong personal links with the LCC) has taken in to it's head that charity status means that the membership doesn't matter any more.

I don't want to see motorbikes in bus lanes, but I cannot for the life of me see the virtue in risking thousands of pounds on a court action, when Johnson is clearly set on proceeding.


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## Riding in Circles (8 Oct 2010)

I am not at all familiar with the CTC, I try to avoid the political issues of becoming involved with pressure groups, while membership is not out of the question, I tend to join these things to give a touch of support rather than to be active in any way myself. Usually democracy is sacrificed at some stage for the needs of the few to get their faces in the paper.


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## Ravenbait (8 Oct 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> I ride both as well and think mixing the two is a recipe for disaster.



I agree. I wouldn't use a bus lane on my motorbike and I don't want to see motorbikes in the bus lane no matter what I'm riding.

Sam


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## gbs (2 Nov 2010)

On a related issue: this is what I posted over on the CTC forum last weekend.

_CYCLISTS DO NOT MATTER_ _

by *gbs* » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:59 am _
_I was half-listening to LBC yesterday whilst preparing lunch and heard an advisory message from presumably a road safety organisation. The key messages were 
1) motorcyclists are allowed to use bus lanes and 2) they are not as visible as a bus so take extra care if you are turning left across a bus lane. No mention of the humble pedal pusher!_ 



Can anyone confirm or contradict my recollection? CTC think it may be a TfL message.


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## BigSteev (2 Nov 2010)

I like scooters and mopeds in bus lanes. Gives me something to draft.


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## jonesy (2 Nov 2010)

gbs said:


> On a related issue: this is what I posted over on the CTC forum last weekend.
> 
> _CYCLISTS DO NOT MATTER_ _
> 
> ...



I believe the reason for this campaign is that the initial evaluations of the trial found an increase in incidents between motorcyclists in the bus lane and drivers turning across it. Presumably in part because motorcycles go faster than other traffic so will become a hazard more quickly if not seen by drivers not expecting them to be there. So it is specifically about motorbikes which is why cyclists aren't mentioned.


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## Aperitif (11 Nov 2010)

gbs said:


> On a related issue: this is what I posted over on the CTC forum last weekend.
> 
> _CYCLISTS DO NOT MATTER_ _
> 
> ...



I mentioned this ad to Origamist on the last Whitstable ride, gbs, expressing the same 'concern' that the word cyclist would not have cost any extra to include!
In the last couple of days however, I have heard - adjacent to traffic reports - a cycle specific advert, where a motorist is mentally running through a checklist of things to be aware of and 'describing same ('Hmm, I wonder if I'll get home to see Emmerdale...did I bring my sausages out of work or are they still on the table...cor, I fancy that Tracey in Accounts...etc...) -not quite so trite but...we know what the 'reality' of drivers is...
But anyway, it IS cycle specific, but I have no idea of the 'owners'. TfL? I'll write to LBC if I can remember.


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## Aperitif (12 Nov 2010)

AdrianC said:


> I have remembered another one. Stopping in front of me, under any circumstance, on a bike which has the exhausts routed up under the seat and pointed at my face. With larger four stroke engined ones you can pretty much feel individual puffs of exhaust on your face from several feet away. Thinking about it though, these must be coming in waves made up of the exhaust gas from several engine revolutions because the rate is way slower than the engine spins.



I refer my extremely valued friend to post #9 of this thread which just goes to show that great minds etc...


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## Aperitif (12 Nov 2010)

AdrianC said:


> Bollocks, how embarrassing.



Not at all - reassuring for me.


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## Riding in Circles (14 Nov 2010)

It sounds like this issue has started to show the cracks forming in the CTC, it is a shame that the organisation has found its way to this point but as I already stated, most groups eventually find themselves in such a place at some point or other.


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## HLaB (22 Dec 2010)

I can't say I know much about p2w in bus lanes but I saw this today, it looks like Ealing are scrapping it.


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## henshaw11 (22 Dec 2010)

AdrianC said:


> I have remembered another one. Stopping in front of me, under any circumstance, on a bike which has the exhausts routed up under the seat and pointed at my face. With larger four stroke engined ones you can pretty much feel individual puffs of exhaust on your face from several feet away. Thinking about it though, these must be coming in waves made up of the exhaust gas from several engine revolutions because the rate is way slower than the engine spins.



It's even worse in the the confines of a car ferry when the tw*t in front of you in a row of bikes decides he has to get his bike warmed up well in advance of anything moving - it's literally eye-watering from all the nasties in the exhaust fumes


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## jonesy (21 Dec 2011)

Decision announced today:

Trial gives go-ahead for motorbikes in bus lanes
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...gives-go-ahead-for-motorbikes-in-bus-lanes.do

Motorcycles to be allowed permanent access to bus lanes

Transport for London (TfL) has announced that following two extensive trials, motorcycles will be able to drive in bus lanes on a permanent basis on the majority of the Capital's Red Routes from 23 January, 2012
....

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/22125.aspx


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## gaz (21 Dec 2011)

> In line with this increased enforcement, the average speed for motorcyclists in bus lanes reduced by 6.5 per cent during the trial, with the proportion of motorcyclists exceeding the speed limit decreasing by one fifth (51 per cent in September 2010 down to 41 per cent in September 2011).


It still seems that speeding is acceptable, that is with police enforcement.


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