# Will this work ?



## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

I think that maybe this is a potty idea but l would really like to keep my down tube friction shifters but pair them up with a modern rear derailleur and possibly a ten speed cassette. Has anyone tried it , any info. gratefully received !
The shifters :





The rear derailleur:


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## DCLane (18 Oct 2019)

Yes, although you'll have to widen the spacing of the rear to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if it's below that.


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

DCLane said:


> Yes, although you'll have to widen the spacing of the rear to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if it's below that.


Thanks for that DCLane , it would be going on my old steel Coppi so l would have to stretch the rear spacing but l don't see that as a problem .


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## Salar (18 Oct 2019)

Yes,

I use retro mtb thumb friction shifters because I got fed up adjusting the front derailleur. (Mine are on the handlebars )


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2019)

DCLane said:


> Yes, although you'll have to widen the spacing of the rear to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if it's below that.


You _may_ have to ... but it may be possible to squeeze the big (130mm) hub into the smaller dropouts by brute force. I have a bike on which I've done that. I may one day get around to permanently widening (aka "cold setting") it. It does mean that replacing the rear wheel is a bit of a performance, requiring some wrestling skills.

I use an 8 speed 11-32 cassette with friction levers and an Alivio rear mech. Works fine ... with one caveat:

I can't use the teeny tiny 11T sprocket on my 11-32 cassette. There's just not clearance for it. So I just lock out that sprocket with the HI adjuster on the mech. I don't know if you will encounter that problem.

I wonder if a 10sp cassette might be a bit pernickety to change with friction shifters, needing very accurate positioning of the lever. I don't know, I've never tried - but it might be. 8sp is fine.


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## raleighnut (18 Oct 2019)

Of course it will work on friction shifters BUT you may need to change the crankset to cope with the narrower 10 speed chain.


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## gbb (18 Oct 2019)

I have no experience of whether it'd work or not , the question i'd ask myself is, can the friction shifters pull enough cable to achieve the total 10 speed range. It'd be easy enough to check mind.


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## raleighnut (18 Oct 2019)

gbb said:


> I have no experience of whether it'd work or not , the question i'd ask myself is, can the friction shifters pull enough cable to achieve the total 10 speed range. It'd be easy enough to check mind.


Yeah the total pull is no different but the increments between gears are closer.


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Of course it will work on friction shifters BUT you may need to change the crankset to cope with the narrower 10 speed chain.


Good point, thanks


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

gbb said:


> I have no experience of whether it'd work or not , the question i'd ask myself is, can the friction shifters pull enough cable to achieve the total 10 speed range. It'd be easy enough to check mind.


Its a bit of a gamble but l'll give it a go !


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> You _may_ have to ... but it may be possible to squeeze the big (130mm) hub into the smaller dropouts by brute force. I have a bike on which I've done that. I may one day get around to permanently widening (aka "cold setting") it. It does mean that replacing the rear wheel is a bit of a performance, requiring some wrestling skills.
> 
> I use an 8 speed 11-32 cassette with friction levers and an Alivio rear mech. Works fine ... with one caveat:
> 
> ...


Good point, but l guess if l get enough practice in on the trainer gizmo , l won't make a complete hash of it on the road . Ever the optimist


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## Racing roadkill (18 Oct 2019)

A system designed for accurate, indexed shifts, using hairy arsed down tube paddles? Yes it _could _work. Good luck trying to get it to work anything like as well as indexed brifters.


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## rogerzilla (18 Oct 2019)

It'll work fine but will take more finesse than friction-shifting 5 or 6 speed due to the close spacing.

In the early days of 6 and 7 speed indexing, some pro riders kept their DT levers on friction so riders in front didn't hear them snicking up the gears ready to jump them.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2019)

Problems with accurate shifting should be the least of your worries. If it's too much of a fiddle just slap an 8sp cassette on*. I know for a fact that there's no problem with that.

* You can stick 8 and 10 speed cassettes on the same freehub can't you? Someone will probably be along in a minute to point out that you can't and that this is an idiotic suggestion.


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## Racing roadkill (18 Oct 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Problems with accurate shifting should be the least of your worries. If it's too much of a fiddle just slap an 8sp cassette on*. I know for a fact that there's no problem with that.
> 
> * You can stick 8 and 10 speed cassettes on the same freehub can't you? Someone will probably be along in a minute to point out that you can't and that this is an idiotic suggestion.


If you were using the same freehub, an 8 speed would need spacers, the 10 speed would need a spacer, on a latest generation freehub, good luck getting that to work smoothly.


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

Racing roadkill said:


> A system designed for accurate, indexed shifts, using hairy arsed down tube paddles? Yes it _could _work. Good luck trying to get it to work anything like as well as indexed brifters.


All my other bikes have indexed shifts...this is just me trying to keep trad. stuff on my old Coppi as far as poss. Call me a sentimental old fool .....l don't mind in the least


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Problems with accurate shifting should be the least of your worries. If it's too much of a fiddle just slap an 8sp cassette on*. I know for a fact that there's no problem with that.
> 
> * You can stick 8 and 10 speed cassettes on the same freehub can't you? Someone will probably be along in a minute to point out that you can't and that this is an idiotic suggestion.


Spacers are all that are needed .


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> It'll work fine but will take more finesse than friction-shifting 5 or 6 speed due to the close spacing.
> 
> In the early days of 6 and 7 speed indexing, some pro riders kept their DT levers on friction so riders in front didn't hear them snicking up the gears ready to jump them.


I like that , and l will keep it in mind as justification for my little scheme !


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## Dogtrousers (18 Oct 2019)

woodbutcher said:


> Spacers are all that are needed .


Sorted! 
It'll be fan dabby dozey. I guarantee it


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## Cycleops (18 Oct 2019)

You should be able to keep your existing chainset. RJ has done a similar conversion so this might help you out;


View: https://youtu.be/c5GX7O_aruM


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## woodbutcher (18 Oct 2019)

Thanks for the RJ link.....l haven't got very far yet but l do have a Campag. Record 10spd crankset . This all started because l wanted to winterise a bike but not one of the Vitus . It's all good fun though so far 
Couple of photos of the victim !! I really like this bike but hardly ever ride it so this makeover will get me going again l hope.


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## SkipdiverJohn (19 Oct 2019)

@woodbutcher , why do you want so many speeds on the back anyway?
The most either of my drop bar bikes has got is six close ratios on my Dawes Jaguar and five wide ratios on my Raleigh Royal. Both with DT shifters of course as they are lugged 531 frames not modern plastic things!
I prefer a six speed freewheel overall, but I'd rather have 14-28 instead of the "sporty" 14-24 that the Dawes came with. The Raleigh freewheel is overly-wide range being a Touring frame. OK on the small front ring, not so OK on the big ring. On a relatively light bike being ridden unladen I feel the "sweet spot" transmission set-up is 6 x 2 and the cogs are far enough spaced to give clean changes without having indexing.


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## woodbutcher (19 Oct 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> @woodbutcher , why do you want so many speeds on the back anyway?
> The most either of my drop bar bikes has got is six close ratios on my Dawes Jaguar and five wide ratios on my Raleigh Royal. Both with DT shifters of course as they are lugged 531 frames not modern plastic things!
> I prefer a six speed freewheel overall, but I'd rather have 14-28 instead of the "sporty" 14-24 that the Dawes came with. The Raleigh freewheel is overly-wide range being a Touring frame. OK on the small front ring, not so OK on the big ring. On a relatively light bike being ridden unladen I feel the "sweet spot" transmission set-up is 6 x 2 and the cogs are far enough spaced to give clean changes without having indexing.


I don't have a good practical reason to be honest , it's just that l have a set of wheels with a ten speed cassette and l just fancy seeing what it's like in practice. I've haven't had ten speed before so its curiosity more than anything. and if it proves to be impractical l will stick the cassette on my mountain bike when we go to Sweden next.


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## Gravity Aided (26 Oct 2019)

It's worth a try. The accuracy of shifting might be a little less, because it may be difficult to pick an exact gear. Everything may be pretty close together. When I went to an 8 speed rear, I also went with indexing, just for that reason.


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