# How often do you change your car?



## gavroche (5 Jul 2019)

I used to change mine every 3 years max but I have had my present car for 4 years now and will be quite happy to keep it a lot longer. This one was bought new and has always been driven with great care so hoping all mechanical parts will last . My only concern are the electronics, how long will they last as they are not cheap to replace.


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## Dave 123 (5 Jul 2019)

More often than I change my pants.


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## Drago (5 Jul 2019)

As infrequently as possible. It's about as exciting to me as buying a new fridge.

Stay retired, or work until I'm eleventy fifteen years old to pay for all this stuff?


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## Dirk (5 Jul 2019)

Whenever I feel it's necessary.


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## DCLane (5 Jul 2019)

About every 5-8 years. I tend to buy 5-7 year-old cars and run them until they drop when they're replaced with another: basic bangernomics but in the £2000-3000 price range.


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## fossyant (5 Jul 2019)

15 plus years ! We buy nearly new and keep them for as long as they are reliable, being Japanese mean's a long time !


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

Not very often............

I bought my Octavia estate ('11' plate, 1.6Tdi) in March 2012, when it was about 7months old @ 6,000 miles

Still got it, @ 136,000 miles
No plans to change it, except maybe for another Octavia (maybe a Scout 2.0 Tdi/6-speed)

It's had the usua_l 'wear & tear'_ items (*1*)
Cheap to insure, & VED is £30/year
I can get 65MPG running about locally
Re-mapped a while ago (insurance declared)

Its usual colour
(rear tyres are clean, at moment, as new pair last month)







A useful increase, the torque is noticeable, for joining m-ways. etc.....






fossyant said:


> 15 plus years ! We buy nearly new and keep them for as long as they are reliable, being Japanese mean's a long time !


My mother had a Vauxhall Corsa (1st shape), she essentially drove it off the showroom floor, in 1997 ('R plated) & only sold it in late 2017/early 2018 (can't remember which?)



*1. *Still on original clutch & exhaust (but a new clutch master cylinder)


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## AndyRM (5 Jul 2019)

I haven't got a TV.


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2019)

Mines wearing the same set of clothes it had on when I bought it.


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## Smudge (5 Jul 2019)

I always used to change my cars around every 3 yrs and always losing a fortune in depreciation. But i think i'm going to keep my current car, Focus Estate, for as long as poss as i dont do the mileage these days and its one of the last £20 p/y VED.
There isn't really anything about it i dont like, its cheap to run, so far reliable, and its big enough to use as a workhorse for carrying large items.
When it finally has to go, i quite like the idea of being free from car ownership.


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## Brains (5 Jul 2019)

As rarely as possible.
(having owned lots of old bangers in the 70's and 80's) 
I'm now on my 4th car since 1988

Unfortunately the perfectly good, current 2009 built car will have to be replaced this year as it's diesel.
The ULEZ is moving out to cover our home, so I have to either buy a diesel made after 2014, or an old petrol car.


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## derrick (5 Jul 2019)

When i need to,


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## Milkfloat (5 Jul 2019)

I used to change my car pretty much every couple of months (benefits or curse of a Car Dealer father). Then after about 12 years of this I bought a car of my my choice and kept it for 9 years and still regret selling it. I only sold it because I needed a bigger family car. Now I lease and in November will be attempting to be car free.


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## Slick (5 Jul 2019)

Cars have always been my one weakness, I do like a nice car despite only putting around 5 or 6k a year on it. I too have always changed every 3 years starting from brand new but the last couple of cars have been quite expensive so I've kept them for 4. I shouldn't have bought the car I have now, but it is a thing of beauty and a joy to drive but not very environmentally friendly and I've been wrestling with what to do with it for a while now as it will be 4 ome August. That was until I heard Jaguar are stopping production to switch to electric motors and hope to have an electric version of all their models by 2020. I think I'll be at the head of the que when they come out. 

https://news.sky.com/story/jaguar-l...-the-uk-protecting-thousands-of-jobs-11757066


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## rugby bloke (5 Jul 2019)

Tend to run them into the ground and then change. Have recently changed a Mercedes R Class after 8 years (it was 3 years old when when we bought it) and 130,000 miles. One of the driveshafts was making an unhealthy noise so it was worth selling before having to replace. Now got a shiny 3 year old GLA which will be hopefully in the family for many years.
The only short term car I have owned was an Alfa GT - bought it new, ran it for 2 years and was then diagnosed with Epilepsy so could not drive. The wife never liked driving it we we had to sell it, a very sad day.


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## Smokin Joe (5 Jul 2019)

02 plate Almera, owned for over two years now and it will stay with me till it won't pass an MoT or something expensive goes pop. Then I'll be back looking at the sub 1k market for a replacement.


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Cars have always been my one weakness, I do like a nice car despite only putting around 5 or 6k a year on it. I too have always changed every 3 years starting from brand new but the last couple of cars have been quite expensive so I've kept them for 4.
> I shouldn't have bought the car I have now, but it is a thing of beauty and a joy to drive but not very environmentally friendly and I've been wrestling with what to do with it for a while now as it will be 4 ome August. That was until I heard Jaguar are stopping production to switch to electric motors and hope to have an electric version of all their models by 2020. I think I'll be at the head of the que when they come out.
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/jaguar-l...-the-uk-protecting-thousands-of-jobs-11757066



Presuming, you have a 'Cat', going by the above?
We had one for a while, pre - Octavia 
(& I had a 110Td5)






Wife presently has a Toyota C-HR *hybrid derivative)


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## welsh dragon (5 Jul 2019)

I tend to keep hold of my cars until the cost of running/repairs make them uneconomical. 

I had my last car for 13 years. It was 9 months old when I bought it. I bought my latest car in Feb 2011 new and it has less than 28,000 miles on the clock. Serviced every year, never failed an MOT. 1 set of new tyres and the front brakes replaced and thats it.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> As infrequently as possible. It's about as exciting to me as buying a new fridge



Don't you get a new fridge every summer, once the ice blocks have melted?


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## Slick (5 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Presuming, you have a 'Cat', going by the above?
> We had one for a while, pre - Octavia
> (& I had a 110Td5)
> 
> ...


Nice. Yes, I love them, nearly always have except for the dark times. Not sure I would have been able to swap yours for an Octavia either.


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## dave r (5 Jul 2019)

Now I'm retired the plan is to keep it as long as possible, the way the money is I can't afford to change it, so I'll keep it till it needs expensive repairs or it seriously fails it MOT, and it might be my last car. It's only the third car I've owned, the other two were old bangers and only lasted about three years before I had to get rid.


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2019)

This one has passed it's last five MOT's without a blink. My spreadhseet says it's the cheapest family car I've ever ran. I'm not in any rush to get rid of it.


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## roubaixtuesday (5 Jul 2019)

Car ownership is merely a necessary evil, and replacement is money wasted on funding the lifestyle of car dealers. The only essential attributes of cars are that they go when the right hand pedal is pressed, stop when the adjacent is pressed, and are able to transport sufficient bicycles. All else is frippery.

Cars are replaced strictly whenever they piss me off by becoming unreliable. They are *never* washed - as residual value is close to zero at the point of replacement anyway, spending time or money to maintain their value is utterly pointless; said time or money would be much better spent on bicycles.

Replacements are always 2nd hand as new cars lose near 50% of their value instantly. Replacements should be sufficiently new not to require replacement within a short number of years.

Current car is 10 years old and has been mine for seven. I've no idea how long I'll keep it. Anything between 1-10 years depending on reliability.


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## Jody (5 Jul 2019)

DCLane said:


> About every 5-8 years. I tend to buy 5-7 year-old cars and run them until they drop when they're replaced with another: basic bangernomics but in the £2000-3000 price range.



This sums up the way I look at cars. Buy when someone else has taken the majority of depreciation and when still new/reliable enough to last a few years. Punt it on or break it when it gets tired and move on to the next one.


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## numbnuts (5 Jul 2019)

I'll keep mine a wee bit longer as I've only had her for 21 years and she hasn't done 60,000 miles yet


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## SpokeyDokey (5 Jul 2019)

Sadly, I used to be very into the new car thing as part of my corporate life. It was a status thing and still is for many. I've lost track of the number of hot hatches (early career) and big, fast German mile-munchers I've had in my later career.

Having eschewed all that rollocks years ago we now have a tiny little German car that goes adequately fast, is very economical and is surprisingly well equipped. We decided to keep it 10 years at the purchase date when it cost just under £11k seven years ago (it now has 25000 miles on it) and we will almost certainly stick to the plan.

I have no interest in cars whatsoever apart from being a safe and reliable A to B tool. Some of my friends think we are mad not having two 'nice' cars on the drive but that's their problem - occasionally I have to remind the odd person that one car between two is enough for our needs and if we really wanted his and hers new Porsches (etc) on the drive we could buy them cash without breaking sweat. Sadly, not everyone gets that either.


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## biggs682 (5 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> As infrequently as possible. It's about as exciting to me as buying a new fridge



Same here although go back a few years and i would have said every 12 months


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## gbb (5 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Not very often............
> 
> I bought my Octavia estate ('11' plate, 1.6Tdi) in March 2012, when it was about 7months old @ 6,000 miles
> 
> ...



Colleague at work has just sold his 16 year old Octavia 1.9 diesel estate, 230k miles and still going well. Still on the original exhaust and clutch although he did say most of its life was spent on major roads/motorways. The guy he's sold it to (another colleage) has sent him a photo of the fuel consumption he achieved last week...72mpg, although that was driving steady.

I'd have brought it myself given half the chance.

Taken care of, they must be a bloomin good car.


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## gbb (5 Jul 2019)

3 to 4 years for me, usually once the finance is done i get itchy feet and want something different.
But my 2015 Astra is nearly mine and i don't think i'm going to change it. Its reliable, it does what it needs to without any finesse or particular style...but its ok, so i think i'm going to stick with it.


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## Sharky (5 Jul 2019)

When the ashtrays are full.



But I dont smoke, so my 17 yr old Zafira is still doing us proud. Had from new.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Jul 2019)

I like new cars.. Usuall every 2-3 yrs, used to be nearly every yr, Though i shall wait and see what hapens before we buy the next one..

Couldn't care less about depreciation.
The kia has 4 yrs warranty left so that should be enough time for electric to catch up


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## otek59 (5 Jul 2019)

Never had a car, so I’ve never had to change it


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Nice. Yes, I love them, nearly always have except for the dark times. Not sure I would have been able to swap yours for an Octavia either.


It was a 'weekend car' essentially, as we also had a (truly) horrendous Ford C-Max too
The XKR wasn't too bad to insure on a limited mileage policy (circa £350 FC, I think?)
I'd even seen 30MPG from it, on a long run, to Cardiff!!




gbb said:


> Colleague at work has just sold his 16 year old Octavia 1.9 diesel estate, 230k miles and still going well. Still on the original exhaust and clutch although he did say most of its life was spent on major roads/motorways. The guy he's sold it to (another colleage) has sent him a photo of the fuel consumption he achieved last week...72mpg, although that was driving steady.
> 
> I'd have brought it myself given half the chance.
> Taken care of, they must be a bloomin good car.


Mechanical fuel pump at that age???

I've seen more;
This average MPG was 2014, according to the date
A trip down M1, to East Midlands Airport to pick SWMBO up




A couple of weeks ago, we went to Birmingham
I filled up/brimmed at closest retailer to the house
It showed the hypothetical range as 545 miles

I drove to Birmingham, into Edgbaston, to where we were stopping (the Conference Centre Hotel, at the University)
By this time, it was showing about 120miles, with a little diversion en-route, yet the hypothetical mileage was now 670 miles


On a similar vein, regarding high mileages, I'm reminded of a work-collegue has a half-share in a taxi (black & whites), with his brother
He used to have a Astra 3 estate 1.7TD (Isuzu engine?; so he told me)
Due to licencing restrictions (maybe Wakefield Council, or nationwide, I don't know), he had to sell it at 5 years old (or similar)
They'd put over 350,000miles on it!!!

On original engine & 'box (regular oil changes @ 10,000 miles)


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## I like Skol (5 Jul 2019)

I'm in the process of changing my car right now. It may take a couple of weeks....


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## Drago (5 Jul 2019)

Mrs D has banned me from any more Landies. Too much time spent with the spanners and welder.

Is that simply a new chassis Skol, or are you changing some other stuff along the way?


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## Bromptonaut (5 Jul 2019)

Tend to try and run them into ground. 

Bought a 2yo BX estate in 1993 and ran it until steering rack failed MoT in 2005 - scrapped. Successor was a new 2005 Berlingo 1.9D which did 10years and around 160k before I traded it with a power steering issue that had techs sucking their teeth. Replacement was a 11 plate Roomster which is coming up to 100k. Expect it to last at least another 5 years. 

Other stream was a Xantia bought new in 2000 and run until 150k miles in 2013 when it needed £2k worth of repairs - scrapped. Replacement was brand new Berlingo which is main car for long trips/caravan tugging. Expect to hang on to it a bit longer but aspiration for larger caravan would, if effected, require a replacement with greater towing weight/GTW.


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## KneesUp (5 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Not very often............
> 
> I bought my Octavia estate ('11' plate, 1.6Tdi) in March 2012, when it was about 7months old @ 6,000 miles
> 
> ...




Maybe use some of that torque to move it off the pavement so pedestrians don't have to go in the road ;-)

It's not all about MPG - the emissions from your car - being it's a VAG product - were probably illegally high before you had it tuned to give more torque than you need. It's ridiculous that VED for my petrol car, which is 'cleaner' and does about half the annual mileage, is 6x as much in VED.

In answer to the OP - I aim to change them the week before they die a death - but the one before this was written off, so the current one is on it's third year with us. It's a Honda, so assuming people don't just drive into the side of this one, it will go on for a while yet.


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I'm in the process of changing my car right now. It may take a couple of weeks....
> 
> View attachment 474031
> 
> ...



Splendid stuff!



Drago said:


> Mrs D has banned me from any more Landies. Too much time spent with the spanners and welder.
> Is that simply a new chassis Skol, or are you changing some other stuff along the way?



I keep considering another, I've not had one since 2010
That said, I'm stuck between wanting;
*1.* A 'proper Range Rover; ideally a late 300Tdi/manual/'soft-dash'
(as early 2-doors, with vinyl seats are ascending in price, for VGC/restored)



*2. *101FC; a friend used to have one, they're fun!! 
(not his)



*3. *A nice tidy S1 86"



*4.* A L322 (Rangie 'series 3'), as a TDV8, that's to say 3.6litre diesel V8, with twin-turbos!! (sadly, all automatics)




*5. *A Discovery 300Tdi 'Commercial'
This FB picture was taken in September 2007, & I still see this Discovery every so often, & it still looks as good as here!!

View: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202829713176170&set=a.10202418728941821&type=3&theater


Rostyle' wheels suit this shape Discovery too


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## I like Skol (5 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Mrs D has banned me from any more Landies. Too much time spent with the spanners and welder.
> 
> Is that simply a new chassis Skol, or are you changing some other stuff along the way?


'Just' a new chassis. Everything else is in reasonable shape so will be quickly swapped over with the minimum of restoration.
This 'minor' refurb with a galvanised chassis should see the 1994 Land Rover good for at least another 25 years if not more.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Jul 2019)

Company car - every 3 years or 120,000 miles, whatever comes first. Don't care any more, it's just a tool for the job. I do less than 1500 miles a year personal mileage because I'm sick of the things.


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## tom73 (5 Jul 2019)

Since we past our test's 18 years ish ago we've had 5 car's old N reg Micra loved that car such fun to drive which we only get rid of due to scrappage so made sense , an i10 which at the time was full of extras at a price no one could match. Well it was worth it and given extra value we had due to getting on scrappage. We traded in for a new Yaris on 3 year 0%. Then went for another new Yaris after 3 year on a straight swop. Mrs 73 was doing a lot of miles for work at all hours so something comfy, safe and reliable was called for Yaris fitted the bill. That came to end last month we handed it back with nothing to pay. It served us well many a holiday , weekend's away and day's out. Along the way we needed 2 cars so I bought a 10 plate Aygo i'm 2rd owner full service history ect , ect. it's just done 16k mileage.Only had new set of tyres and new brakes in that time.

But times change and we don't need 2 anymore so we've kept my car that's a min £200 a mouth saving. The only thing we pay is a service plan inc 3 year fix cost MOT. Cheep enough no messing about and they do a good job. The dealer is only down road so simple to drop off ect and I never get them to little things I do them or go to motorsave. 

My work driving has gone right down so no need for another car. Fully loaded it got us on holiday and back on one blob on fuel gauge inc getting up Sutton bank. with out issue something the i10 was not happy to do. It will do us just right we do enough driving for work so have for a long time done day's out via train or local coach day trip.
No parking worries, free to watch the world go, stress free no nutters flashing lights and up your back end.

We get to spend quality time together on the way and have a nap on the way home.  Now we have the bikes we've added train and then bike days to the mix.

Electric cars should be more on line by time we need another so in no rush to change or need to.


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## vickster (5 Jul 2019)

Had mine 6 years. Was a year old when I got it with 4K on the clock. Still only 25k, no intention to change...unless I win the Euromillions tonight then I might consider it


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## I like Skol (5 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Rostyle' wheels suit this shape Discovery too



Looks like the road up Stanage above Bamford to me, have been there many times over the years, both driving and mountain biking.

Is it your picture?


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## Drago (5 Jul 2019)

Thought of building a Strange Rover? I considered it once, but apathy got in the way.


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## Smudge (5 Jul 2019)

I had a Landie once, a series 2a, 2 & 1/4 petrol. The thing was an absolute money pit, on petrol and repairs.
Whatever possessed me to buy it i dont know.


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## stephec (5 Jul 2019)

I've had company cars for the last twenty years, i get a list every three years or so and just pick one off it.

With the price of new cars today I can't imagine ever buying a new one, I'd probably spend around £5000 on something 'entertaining' and run it as long as possible if I had to buy one.

The only regret is that after about five years of company cars I sold my Capri as it wasn't getting used, I still miss it.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jul 2019)

Considering not replacing when it dies. They cost a fortune before they even move. Sure it'd cost far less just to hire when necessary.


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## Grant Fondo (5 Jul 2019)

Generally when the chauffer starts grumbling, every six months?


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## cyberknight (5 Jul 2019)

used to change every 5 years or so but our current car hardly gets driven now since Mrs ck`s stroke so i intend to keep it till its uneconomical to run/repair it , its not moved since saturday .


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## slowmotion (5 Jul 2019)

I buy a second hand one when the previous wreck has taken its last journey to the scrappy. You get about £100 per hundred kilos for a scrapped one. It goes towards a new wreck costing £2000 tops.

EDIT! £10 per hundred kilos, alas.


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## Brains (5 Jul 2019)

Company cars:

Our company stopped automatically supplying them quite a few years ago when they found one of the cars, up for replacement after several years, still just had the delivery mileage. 
They then realised they were paying a lot of money for a perk that was not being used by many people, as across the fleet the mileage was not even in the realm of what it should have been.
The company then got hit for a benefit tax, so all the cars went overnight!
Today we are 1,500 employees, and not one single company vehicle!

(Also tax laws then changed which made company cars only for real use sales people etc)


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## Jimidh (5 Jul 2019)

Every 3-4 years just because I like having a nice car. Had the current car almost 4 years now and it’s replacement has been ordered and should be here in October.


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## Racing roadkill (5 Jul 2019)

On current form, once every 12 years, and I haven’t actually changed it yet


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## Edwardoka (5 Jul 2019)

I haven't driven in decades. I was still able to thrash both my 100,000+ mile a year driving friends at go-karting.

Edited to add: I also don't have a TV


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

KneesUp said:


> Maybe use some of that torque to move it off the pavement so pedestrians don't have to go in the road ;-)
> 
> It's not all about MPG - the emissions from your car - being it's a VAG product - were probably illegally high before you had it tuned to give more torque than you need. It's ridiculous that VED for my petrol car, which is 'cleaner' and does about half the annual mileage, is 6x as much in VED.



Surely higher MPG = less emissions
More torque than needed? easier driving/hill-ascending




I like Skol said:


> Looks like the road up Stanage above Bamford to me, have been there many times over the years, both driving and mountain biking.
> 
> Is it your picture?


It is, I believe
No, just a random 'net image, to illustrate the wheels
I've also driven on there in the past



Drago said:


> Thought of building a Strange Rover? I considered it once, but apathy got in the way.


Do you remember the original Strange Rover, by Keith Gott
Circa 1977-1978
Old copy of _Hot Car_. from back them, that's still in the hoarded piles


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## MarkF (5 Jul 2019)

I used to get a company car of my choice every 3 years, so a "new" car holds no appeal for me when it comes to forking out my own cash for one. We buy bangers and odd balls, currently we have a mint 1992 Mx5, a banger 2002 Focus, bought for £800 that has cost a £100 service/mot for 5 years of trouble free A2B and a 2006 Suzuki Swift that rarely moves.

We are looking for another Jeep 4L Wrangler.


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## DCBassman (5 Jul 2019)

DCLane said:


> About every 5-8 years. I tend to buy 5-7 year-old cars and run them until they drop when they're replaced with another: basic bangernomics but in the £2000-3000 price range.


This. Current box is at 6+years, and I've added 100,000 to the original 170,000, so it's doing well for an 04 plate.


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## stephec (5 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Surely higher MPG = less emissions
> More torque than needed? easier driving/hill-ascending
> 
> 
> ...


Is that the lovechild of a Land Rover and TR7?


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 Jul 2019)

stephec said:


> Is that the lovechild of a Land Rover and TR7?



Range Rover 
Rear engined, & flipped axles

A bit here about it

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/17131-strange-rover-by-alvin-smith/


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## lane (5 Jul 2019)

When beyond economic repair one way or another so forced to. Usually buy one around 3 years old and circa 40k miles and then keep it as long as possible. Have been doing 15k miles a year due to work requirements but has reduced now thank goodness. I like the convienience of a car but don't like anything else to do with them and most certainly not buying them. Hoping my toyota will have a long lifespan currently 110k and like new.


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## Smudge (5 Jul 2019)

stephec said:


> Is that the lovechild of a Land Rover and TR7?



Its unmistakably a TR7 body on there...... The TR7 was another POS car that i once owned back in the 80's.


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## I like Skol (5 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> Its unmistakably a TR7 body on there...... The TR7 was another POS car that i once owned back in the 80's.


You seem to have suffered some terrible cars. I would suggest you chose examples that had previously belonged to the wrong owners! A cars condition is, much like a bicyclist, usually a reflection of the owners mechanical sympathy and aptitude. A car in poor condition merely points to a neglectful or uncaring owner. Perhaps you should be more careful when buying your cars?


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## Smudge (5 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> You seem to have suffered some terrible cars. I would suggest you chose examples that had previously belonged to the wrong owners! A cars condition is, much like a bicyclist, usually a reflection of the owners mechanical sympathy and aptitude. A car in poor condition merely points to a neglectful or uncaring owner. Perhaps you should be more careful when buying your cars?



I was young, short of money and bought it cheap.


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## Smudge (5 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> You seem to have suffered some terrible cars. I would suggest you chose examples that had previously belonged to the wrong owners! A cars condition is, much like a bicyclist, usually a reflection of the owners mechanical sympathy and aptitude. A car in poor condition merely points to a neglectful or uncaring owner. Perhaps you should be more careful when buying your cars?



BTW, anyone would think i've listed loads of crap cars i've bought on here. I've only mentioned two, which out of all the cars i've owned is extremely few !


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## lane (5 Jul 2019)

I like Skol said:


> You seem to have suffered some terrible cars. I would suggest you chose examples that had previously belonged to the wrong owners! A cars condition is, much like a bicyclist, usually a reflection of the owners mechanical sympathy and aptitude. A car in poor condition merely points to a neglectful or uncaring owner. Perhaps you should be more careful when buying your cars?



Probably don't want to buy a car off me then


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## Drago (6 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> Its unmistakably a TR7 body on there...... The TR7 was another POS car that i once owned back in the 80's.



The story goes that when the TR7 was first revealed at the Geneva motor show the great man Bertone walked slowly and thoughtfully walked around it. As he got half way around the car he suddenly exclaimed, "uuuurrrgghhh! It's the same on the other side!"


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## KneesUp (6 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Surely higher MPG = less emissions
> More torque than needed? easier driving/hill-ascending


Emissions aren't just Co2. There are (as I understand) basically three things you can do to get more torque from a diesel.

1) Advance the timing
2) Retard the injection timing
3) Increase the fuelling

As you get more mpg, you can't have had option 3. Option 1 increases cylinder pressure and temperature, meaning slightly better economy but a huge increase in NOx. Option 2, on the other hand, gives less NOx but an increase in soot, Co2 and hydrocarbons. Car manufacturers are not oblivious to the fact that the engines can give more power, they just need to make sure they (very roughly, as it transpires) meet the emissions regulations. And the power rating is nothing to do with the quality of diesel in some markets either - for a start it's regulated in the EU, but also cars have a phalanx of sensors to ensure the can adjust themselves to match the fuel anyway. How has your car been tuned so that it emits less? I think VW might be interested :-)

It is my conclusion that your tuned car is emitting more of the stuff that gives other people asthma and is carcinogenic. I can smell and taste the crap coming out of diesels on my commute, but on some I can see it too. Those, I always assume, are the ones that have been tuned.

As regards the easier driving thing - I don't get that really. I've driven cars with 65lb/ft (0.07lb/ft per kg of car) to 224lb/ft (0.15 lb/ft per kg). My current car is somewhere in between at 128lb/ft (0.1 lb/ft per kg) and I've driven all of them up hills - and not once has it been difficult for me. It might have been tricky for the car, and when I tool the Viva HC (the 65 lb/ft car) to Cornwall it was quite slow climbing out of Polzeath with 4 adults and luggage, but it wasn't an effort for me, just for the car, and ultimately we got where we were going. What do you mean be "easier driving"?


----------



## swee'pea99 (6 Jul 2019)

Every 20 years, whether we need to or not.


----------



## RoadRider400 (6 Jul 2019)

Had my current car for 12 year now, 36,000 miles then and 101,000 now. Had a few cambelts replaced and some electrical issues along the way. Its 17 years old with the original clutch and turbo (petrol).

Want to keep it going because I dont like spending money, and I only do a couple of thousand miles a year now. However I am hankering after a luxobarge when my old hatchback goes off to the garage in the sky. Had my heart set on a ten/twelve year old Lexus GS300 until I realised the back seats dont fold so no use for a cyclist. Now swaying towards a Volvo V70. Im just not sure I could bear driving around in an Audi, pity because the old A4/A6 Avant would be ideal.


----------



## Cletus Van Damme (6 Jul 2019)

I always used to buy cars around 5 years old and run them for about 7 years, mainly Japanese cars. I get a company car now every couple of years, that are German. I think I was expecting more its been a real anti-climax. I find them really overrated, I'm going ask for a Focus ST next time, I'm sure it will be more fun, and it's not my problem if it breaks.

It's borderline the tax paid on a company car whether it's viable or not. I'm getting too old to be lying around on the drive now. The complexity and unnecessary gadgets on modern cars, also swayed me towards the company car, as I would imagine you'd need to sell a kidney if it develops a fault. Like the thread on here with the guy with that Ford Kuga, and it's pile of sh**e gearbox..

If I change jobs, I'll certainly revert back to what I used to do. Cars are a bit boring now. It's all about the gadgets and crap now, instead of what it drives like and practicability. Totally lost on me, I've no interest at all in that, just safety, decent stereo, aircon, reliability, running costs..


----------



## swee'pea99 (6 Jul 2019)

Cletus Van Damme said:


> safety, decent stereo, aircon, reliability, running costs.


+ a comfy seat.


----------



## Drago (6 Jul 2019)

I'd sit on a wooden pew listening to oom-pa music if it meant minimal environmental impact and tiny runnings costs.


----------



## Proto (6 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> As infrequently as possible. It's about as exciting to me as buying a new fridge.



Yeahbut, our new fridge so much better than the old one. Much colder. Much whiter. Wished we’d changed it earlier, it’s changed our lives.


----------



## Edwardoka (6 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> I'd sit on a wooden pew listening to oom-pa music if it meant minimal environmental impact and tiny runnings costs.


It's bizarre to me that BMW took the Mini brand and used it to produce a line of "normal" oversized cars. Considering so many people get Audis in place of a personality, I think a remake of the classic form factor would do well.


----------



## Slick (6 Jul 2019)

Edwardoka said:


> It's bizarre to me that BMW took the Mini brand and used it to produce a line of "normal" oversized cars. Considering so many people get Audis in place of a personality, I think a remake of the classic form factor would do well.


I think your spot on.


----------



## snorri (6 Jul 2019)

Proto said:


> Yeahbut, our new fridge so much better than the old one. Much colder. Much whiter. Wished we’d changed it earlier, it’s changed our lives.


Amazing, just how old was your old fridge?


----------



## Levo-Lon (7 Jul 2019)

Cletus Van Damme said:


> I always used to buy cars around 5 years old and run them for about 7 years, mainly Japanese cars. I get a company car now every couple of years, that are German. I think I was expecting more its been a real anti-climax. I find them really overrated, I'm going ask for a Focus ST next time, I'm sure it will be more fun, and it's not my problem if it breaks.
> 
> It's borderline the tax paid on a company car whether it's viable or not. I'm getting too old to be lying around on the drive now. The complexity and unnecessary gadgets on modern cars, also swayed me towards the company car, as I would imagine you'd need to sell a kidney if it develops a fault. Like the thread on here with the guy with that Ford Kuga, and it's pile of sh**e gearbox..
> 
> If I change jobs, I'll certainly revert back to what I used to do. Cars are a bit boring now. It's all about the gadgets and crap now, instead of what it drives like and practicability. Totally lost on me, I've no interest at all in that, just safety, decent stereo, aircon, reliability, running costs..



It probably won't break tho

Mate has had lots of trouble withhis A4 dark estate. And its on its second dmf in 80k
Not bad as he does 80 miles a day on the A1 to work


----------



## Drago (7 Jul 2019)

Ah, DMFs. Another reason to get a slush auto, if you can find one.


----------



## Profpointy (7 Jul 2019)

After a series of company cars chopped in after 3 or 4 years my mileage reduced so I took the money instead and bought a 10 year old / 70,000 mile Saab as a stop-gap for a princely £2k 10 years land another 80,000 miles I still have it. Hopefully I can get the same again from it.


----------



## Proto (7 Jul 2019)

snorri said:


> Amazing, just how old was your old fridge?



Not very old, couple of years, but when the salesman showed us that not all freezer compartments are the same we knew it was time to upgrade. The new one brings the freezing point in line with the latest EU standards, much safer, something to do with adjusting for altitude. Also the internal LED light is much more energy efficient than the old one, and will save the cost of the fridge over 5 years. We’d have been mad not to buy it.


----------



## Proto (7 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> After a series of company cars chopped in after 3 or 4 years my mileage reduced so I took the money instead and bought a 10 year old / 70,000 mile Saab as a stop-gap for a princely £2k 10 years land another 80,000 miles I still have it. Hopefully I can get the same again from it.



Me too, currently driving 2008 9-5 diesel estate. Had it 8 years and put 85000 miles on it. Very keen to keep it alive. Might regret saying this but apart from an oxygen sensor on the cat converter, nothing has gone wrong. Service and MOT costs me approx £350 a year. Depreciation over that period not quite so clever, possibly £1000pa.


----------



## Profpointy (7 Jul 2019)

Proto said:


> Me too, currently driving 2008 9-5 diesel estate. Had it 8 years and put 85000 miles on it. Very keen to keep it alive. Might regret saying this but apart from an oxygen sensor on the cat converter, nothing has gone wrong. Service and MOT costs me approx £350 a year. Depreciation over that period not quite so clever, possibly £1000pa.



Mine's probably lost half its value. Mind you the first 3 owners probably lost £30k whereas I've only lost a grand. That said, I did have to have a £2k engine rebuild after an unlucky oil pipe failure. Even the garage suggested it wasn't worth it but I reasoned that the £2k would in effect get me a perfectly sound car with a new engine, rather than be a part payment on an unknown car. It makes no difference to me that the car is only now worth a grand - £2 k is gone regardless. I don't really believe in selling cars and I intend to keep it till it's scrapped - this is, in some ways more "green" than a newer more economic car


----------



## MarkF (7 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> I don't really believe in selling cars and I intend to keep it till it's scrapped - this is, in some ways more "green" than a newer more economic car



It's mot time for the 2002 Focus, it'll pass as always, I think the mot & service is more than the car is worth! It's valueless in todays market yet every single thing on the car works as a well as it ever did.


----------



## snorri (7 Jul 2019)

MarkF said:


> It's mot time for the 2002 Focus, it'll pass as always,


Yeah, it's never been a problem since they started the online MoTs .


----------



## Cletus Van Damme (9 Jul 2019)

swee'pea99 said:


> + a comfy seat.



That was the best thing about an E-Class Merc Estate I had. The seat was phenomenal, that is all I miss about it. The seat in my Golf GTD is pants. I had to buy a lumbar support off Amazon.


----------



## Dave7 (10 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> Mine's probably lost half its value. Mind you the first 3 owners probably lost £30k whereas I've only lost a grand. That said, I did have to have a £2k engine rebuild after an unlucky oil pipe failure. Even the garage suggested it wasn't worth it but I reasoned that the £2k would in effect get me a perfectly sound car with a new engine, rather than be a part payment on an unknown car. It makes no difference to me that the car is only now worth a grand - £2 k is gone regardless. I don't really believe in selling cars and I intend to keep it till it's scrapped - this is, in some ways more "green" than a newer more economic car


My auto diesel Rover 75 had 100K on the clock when a fault occured that would have set me back about the value of the car so I decided to get shut.
I have regretted it ever since and wished I had done the same as you have by throwing some money at it.


----------



## Drago (10 Jul 2019)

Aye, that 2 grand repair is maybe 6 or 8 months repayments on a new car, so in the long run you're still quids in.


----------



## Electric_Andy (10 Jul 2019)

when the ashtray is full


----------



## Profpointy (10 Jul 2019)

Dave7 said:


> My auto diesel Rover 75 had 100K on the clock when a fault occured that would have set me back about the value of the car so I decided to get shut.
> I have regretted it ever since and wished I had done the same as you have by throwing some money at it.



It is a tricky decision sometimes. If things are starting to go wrong, you can end up throwing good money after bad - and I have done this in the past arguably. But in the Saab's case the failure was an unlucky pipe leak, rather than wearing out, and the rest of the car was solid so I felt it a good bet.
Particularly tricky is a succession of small things going wrong, each one worth fixing but the totality adds up. My £2k engine rebuild was more than a year ago, so I consider it has paid back a I'm now in the black. Every month / year it continues to run is "free" so to speak.

That said there are a few non urgent things I'd like to have done - air con problem, faulty window and maybe some suspension work. Neither are vital, but it'll improve the driving experience and I'm prepared to spend the money to get it back to the luxury car level it once was.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (10 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> I'd sit on a wooden pew listening to oom-pa music if it meant minimal environmental impact and tiny runnings costs.



@Drago

Wooden seats??
It'd be more of an Orchestra, or Silver Band, with this
Maybe Elgar, as wasn't he from the Malverns area?
Those seats are utterly gorgeous

YES, I want one too!!! 
https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/mmc/researchanddev/lifecar.html
https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/announcement/lifecar/


'Ultra Capacitors' for acceleration, charged by regenerative hub-motors
Fuel cell for cruising
800kg weight, so not much power needed!!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBTVp1WocSs


And, yes, I know it's from 10 years (or so) ago, but still highly desirable
As is the technology


----------



## johnblack (10 Jul 2019)

Every 4 months.


----------



## Hicky (10 Jul 2019)

As infrequent as possible, better the devil you know in my eyes.


----------



## Levo-Lon (10 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> Mine's probably lost half its value. Mind you the first 3 owners probably lost £30k whereas I've only lost a grand. That said, I did have to have a £2k engine rebuild after an unlucky oil pipe failure. Even the garage suggested it wasn't worth it but I reasoned that the £2k would in effect get me a perfectly sound car with a new engine, rather than be a part payment on an unknown car. It makes no difference to me that the car is only now worth a grand - £2 k is gone regardless. I don't really believe in selling cars and I intend to keep it till it's scrapped - this is, in some ways more "green" than a newer more economic car




Sounds like Triggers Brush


----------



## Profpointy (10 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> Sounds like Triggers Brush



Just needs a new bodyshell & interior and it'll be fine !

Joking aside the engine is the only major replacement


----------



## tyred (10 Jul 2019)

The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.


----------



## Smokin Joe (10 Jul 2019)

johnblack said:


> Every 4 months.


Are you a franchised ADI by any chance?


----------



## I like Skol (10 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> Sounds like Triggers Brush


Today's progress....


----------



## Drago (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914



Meh. I've put MOTs on worse.


----------



## Edwardoka (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914


Isn't that what is traditionally referred to as a "fixer upper"?


----------



## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2019)

Changed my car for a bike about 20 years ago by crashing it into a policecar.


----------



## gbb (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914


At my last car MOT I was chatting to the owner / MOTer. I asked if he got any howlers in nowadays...nah, not like the old days, he replied. In the 80s when he started, some were sooooo bad he used to wonder how they actually managed to get to the garage...


----------



## RoadRider400 (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914



A 5 litre tin of Tcut and shammy leather will see that put right.


----------



## Profpointy (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914



Is that a 1600E - a rather fine motor


----------



## Drago (10 Jul 2019)

About 40% of one.


----------



## dave r (10 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The secret is to look after it and maintain it well. I reckon there are a few years left in mine yet.
> 
> View attachment 474914



I remember the A35 a mate of mine had in the late sixties, if you sat in the front passenger seat and lifted the carpet you could see the road underneath, one day he put the handbrake on and it came of in his hand, it got scrapped shortly after.


----------



## swee'pea99 (10 Jul 2019)

dave r said:


> I remember the A35 a mate of mine had in the late sixties, if you sat in the front passenger seat and lifted the carpet you could see the road underneath, one day he put the handbrake on and it came of in his hand, it got scrapped shortly after.


I had a Triumph Herald like that. On a rainy day long journey you'd get wet feet. The handbrake never broke. Mine got scrapped when one of the wheels fell off.


----------



## tyred (10 Jul 2019)

dave r said:


> I remember the A35 a mate of mine had in the late sixties, if you sat in the front passenger seat and lifted the carpet you could see the road underneath, one day he put the handbrake on and it came of in his hand, it got scrapped shortly after.


I remember a school friend did a handbrake turn in his Dad's early model Peugeot 305 and ripped the rear axle mounts from the bodywork....


----------



## Accy cyclist (11 Jul 2019)

A question here. I often walk past a second hand car dealer's place. He has a 2012 Fiat 500 for sale at £3995. It was that price about 8 months ago. Shouldn't he drop the price by around £500 as the car is older now, even though the mileage hasn't increased? Cars seem to be valued on their year of manufacture more than mileage,it seems.


----------



## Drago (11 Jul 2019)

He's a dealer. He's signed a Faustian pact with Lucifer which means he can never, ever, drop the asking price.


----------



## dave r (11 Jul 2019)

Accy cyclist said:


> A question here. I often walk past a second hand car dealer's place. He has a 2012 Fiat 500 for sale at £3995. It was that price about 8 months ago. Shouldn't he drop the price by around £500 as the car is older now, even though the mileage hasn't increased? Cars seem to be valued on their year of manufacture more than mileage,it seems.



The question here is why can't he shift it, whats wrong with it.


----------



## Drago (11 Jul 2019)

Its overpriced, and there's no shortage of other 500s for buyers to look at. Its sat there tying up the owners money.


----------



## Accy cyclist (11 Jul 2019)

dave r said:


> The question here is why can't he shift it, whats wrong with it.


The car's a nice looking one. Ok,i like it because it's bright yellow which isn't everyone's cup of tea,but it does look tidy for its age and according to the info' in the window it's only had quote 'Two careful lady owners'. I suppose he could've said it was previously owned by a vicar as well,but ….. What I put it down to is the attitude of the seller. He's one of these steroid pumped up types and dresses like one,which gives him an aggressive look. He's also a bit of a clever git. I asked for a test drive on a car two years ago. Ok,it would've been my 4th test drive on one of his cars,but he said to a friend that came with me words to the affect of " He's here again eh,pissing me about wasting my time"! I did ask him about the Fiat in question the other month,thinking he might've forgotten,but he seemed to remember me and when I asked the mileage and if the sunroof was detachable he just replied "51 thousand and no it doesn't",then he went back to eating his sandwich and looking at his phone.


----------



## Accy cyclist (11 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Its overpriced, and there's no shortage of other 500s for buyers to look at. Its sat there tying up the owners money.


Tell me about it! My email inbox is bombarded every day with 'Car Gurus' adverts!!






*CarGurus listings <no-reply@subscription.cargurus.com> Unsubscribe*
10 Jul 2019, 07:17 (1 day ago)












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We found *15* new listings that match your search! Listings matching your criteria have had price changes recently. CarGurus is a leading online automotive shopping destination focused on bringing transparency and efficiency to the car research and shopping experience.




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*New Fiat 500 listings near Great Harwood, North West England*
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*2016 Fiat 500 1.2 LOUNGE*




 Great deal
£616 BELOW
CarGurus Instant Market Value of £6,911
*Price* £6,295
*Mileage* 23,004 mi
*Location* Wigan
View details
*2015 Fiat 500 1.2 LOUNGE (s/s)*




 Good deal
£741 BELOW
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*Price* £4,285
*Mileage* 69,000 mi
*Location* Leeds
View details
*2013 Fiat 500 1.2 Colour Therapy*




 Good deal
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*Price* £3,990
*Mileage* 50,000 mi
*Location* Crewe
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*2010 Fiat 500 1.2 POP*




 Good deal
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*Price* £2,790
*Mileage* 70,000 mi
*Location* Crewe
View details
*2012 Fiat 500 1.2 LOUNGE*




 Fair deal
£183 BELOW
CarGurus Instant Market Value of £4,678


----------



## KneesUp (11 Jul 2019)

Cletus Van Damme said:


> That was the best thing about an E-Class Merc Estate I had. The seat was phenomenal, that is all I miss about it. The seat in my Golf GTD is pants. I had to buy a lumbar support off Amazon.


I had a Fiat Multipla once. The really really ugly one, not the merely ugly facelift one.

I took it to the garage, having diagnosed it as needing a new clutch on the basis that I couldn't change gear and it made a godawful racket. The mechanic is a friend - I owned a Fiat and a Citroen, so we got to know each other quite well - and his diagnosis was that it wasn't worth replacing the clutch because in order to make it good, it would also need a list of other jobs doing, which in summary was a quote to rebuild the entire car around a new clutch. However, in order to break the news more gently he told me first that there was some good news. "What's that?" I asked. "The seats are really comfy!" he replied.


----------



## KneesUp (11 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> @Drago
> 
> Wooden seats??
> It'd be more of an Orchestra, or Silver Band, with this
> ...





The Morgan in that video still looks suspiciously like they were inspired by the Bristol Fighter - which admittedly probably has slightly worse emissions given that even in base trim it had 525bhp, rising to a possibly excessive 1,012bhp in Fighter T trim.


----------



## Denis99 (11 Jul 2019)

Was about every five years, but since buying our Nissan Leaf it looks more likely we will keep this car for at least 12 years.

Virtually zero running costs, servicing is no more than a simple tyres, suspension check, pretty much what an MOT covers.

£0 VED
Having solar panels and a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery means that instead of spending say £800 on petrol and £200 on servicing.
We now have our electricity for the whole house consumption plus powering the Leaf is a total of £450 per year, about 7,000 miles a year.

Can’t see any reason to change, except for another EV car in the long term future.


----------



## Andy in Germany (11 Jul 2019)

Reading this thead I keep thinking car ownership must be even worse than I imagined...


----------



## KneesUp (11 Jul 2019)

Denis99 said:


> Was about every five years, but since buying our Nissan Leaf it looks more likely we will keep this car for at least 12 years.
> 
> Virtually zero running costs, servicing is no more than a simple tyres, suspension check, pretty much what an MOT covers.
> 
> ...


This sounds an ideal set up for me for those journeys where a car makes things much more simple - getting the family across town on a Sunday, when the public transport is even worse than normal for example - but one of the key reasons we have a car is so we can go on camping holidays, which involve a car crammed with stuff and a long drive, or if we take the 'other' tent, a car and a trailer full of stuff and a long drive. How do you cope with those journeys - do you just not make them, do you spend a long time at service stations, or would you just hire a 'normal' car for the duration?


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (11 Jul 2019)

KneesUp said:


> The Morgan in that video still looks suspiciously like they were inspired by the Bristol Fighter - which admittedly probably has slightly worse emissions given that even in base trim it had 525bhp, rising to a possibly excessive 1,012bhp in Fighter T trim.
> 
> View attachment 474975


There is, or was, a Bristol Fighter, in the classic-car restorers/storage in the premises shared with the _Oil Can Cafe_
Now at Washpit Mills, south-west of Holmfirth
I'm not sure if it moved to the new premises?
The (real!) AC Cobra 289 did!!







http://thecardingshed.co.uk/
http://ikclassicsandracing.co.uk/ (Fighter features in the blog; _Cracking Pair Of Bristols_..)


----------



## Smokin Joe (11 Jul 2019)

Accy cyclist said:


> The car's a nice looking one. Ok,i like it because it's bright yellow which isn't everyone's cup of tea,but it does look tidy for its age and according to the info' in the window it's only had quote 'Two careful lady owners'. I suppose he could've said it was previously owned by a vicar as well,but ….. What I put it down to is the attitude of the seller. He's one of these steroid pumped up types and dresses like one,which gives him an aggressive look. He's also a bit of a clever git. I asked for a test drive on a car two years ago. Ok,it would've been my 4th test drive on one of his cars,but he said to a friend that came with me words to the affect of " He's here again eh,pissing me about wasting my time"! I did ask him about the Fiat in question the other month,thinking he might've forgotten,but he seemed to remember me and when I asked the mileage and if the sunroof was detachable he just replied "51 thousand and no it doesn't",then he went back to eating his sandwich and looking at his phone.


TBH Accy, I can sympathise with the dealer there...


----------



## johnblack (11 Jul 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Are you a franchised ADI by any chance?


No, I have no clue what ADI is either. It's just our company car policy.


----------



## Denis99 (11 Jul 2019)

KneesUp said:


> This sounds an ideal set up for me for those journeys where a car makes things much more simple - getting the family across town on a Sunday, when the public transport is even worse than normal for example - but one of the key reasons we have a car is so we can go on camping holidays, which involve a car crammed with stuff and a long drive, or if we take the 'other' tent, a car and a trailer full of stuff and a long drive. How do you cope with those journeys - do you just not make them, do you spend a long time at service stations, or would you just hire a 'normal' car for the duration?



Yes, it can sometimes not be ideal.

But, for 95% of the time it is ideal.

Long journeys can be ok with a bit of forward planning , rapid chargers are increasing every month.

If it is a very long journey, then once or twice a year by train, or hire an ICE car.
Still very much in pocket.


----------



## Accy cyclist (11 Jul 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> TBH Accy, I can sympathise with the dealer there...


Why? He actually wears 'muscle man' torn vests and accompanying chav clothing to sell cars! 
He seemed to think when I asked for a 4th or 5th test drive the other year that I was going to spend a hundred quid and not the £5,000 the car was on sale for.

Edit..and to add to his image he parked in the disabled bay at the library the other week,then dropped his takeaway rubbish on the floor before driving off. Yes I know it's hard to imagine him using a library,but he didn't as he parked up there to get his takeaway. I presume.


----------



## Smudge (11 Jul 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Why? He actually wears 'muscle man' torn vests and accompanying chav clothing to sell cars!
> He seemed to think when I asked for a 4th or 5th test drive the other year that I was going to spend a hundred quid and not the £5,000 the car was on sale for.



Does it really make any difference what a car salesman wears ?
You're not looking to be a drinking buddy with him, just buy a motor off him. He either has the deal you want, or you go elsewhere. Plus from his previous attitude with you, he obviously thinks you're a bit of a tyre kicker.


----------



## KneesUp (11 Jul 2019)

Denis99 said:


> Yes, it can sometimes not be ideal.
> 
> But, for 95% of the time it is ideal.
> 
> ...



That's what I thought - it's seeming increasingly daft to me that we have a car that can cope with the highest demand we place on it (3 people, 3 bikes and camping stuff) when over 95% of the time it's transporting 2 or 3 people and not much else. I've downscaled the car car as much as possible so that it can still do the bikes/camping thing, but when I bought it (Civic) I did think about getting an Audi A2, and I sort of regret not doing now because I reckon we could have managed with that size instead. 

I guess hiring a car with a towbar is an issue - and if VED was on mileage it's mean people with caravans would be incentivised to have a 10 year old Land Cruiser to use for the rare occasions they pulled the 'van and a much smaller car the rest of the time.


----------



## mustang1 (11 Jul 2019)

KneesUp said:


> The Morgan in that video still looks suspiciously like they were inspired by the Bristol Fighter - which admittedly probably has slightly worse emissions given that even in base trim it had 525bhp, rising to a possibly excessive 1,012bhp in Fighter T trim.
> 
> View attachment 474975


Was it front wheel drive? It might as well have been: I don't think the chassis could handle 1000hp regardless of which wheels were driven.


----------



## KneesUp (11 Jul 2019)

mustang1 said:


> Was it front wheel drive? It might as well have been: I don't think the chassis could handle 1000hp regardless of which wheels were driven.


Apparently they never built a Fighter-T - the most powerful they built was the Fighter-S with 628bhp / 580 lb-ft. The chassis was Bristol's own - although it was mainly steel rather than the all aluminium one they had planned initially. Most of the mechanical bits were from the Dodge Viper. I don't really do lusting for impractical and expensive items, but I'd really like a Fighter. They only made 13 though - gowd knows how much they are worth now!


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## Richard A Thackeray (11 Jul 2019)

KneesUp said:


> Apparently they never built a Fighter-T - the most powerful they built was the Fighter-S with 628bhp / 580 lb-ft. The chassis was Bristol's own - although it was mainly steel rather than the all aluminium one they had planned initially. Most of the mechanical bits were from the Dodge Viper. I don't really do lusting for impractical and expensive items, but I'd really like a Fighter.
> 
> They only made 13 though - gowd knows how much they are worth now!


Well, I know where one of them is


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## Drago (11 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> Does it really make any difference what a car salesman wears ?.


A big difference. Much less likely to get a customer's blood on a muscle vest.


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## gbb (13 Jul 2019)

My wife and daughter nearly threw a spanner in the works this morning by trying to convince me to change the car.
2015 1.6 Astra SRI. Underpowered, not very economical but in a months time its ours (after we pay the end of deal settlement). I'd consoled myself to keeping it, it's cheap to maintain, modestly cheap to run if you drive it carefully....and boringly. It wont set the world on fire but its reliable and it looks ok.

And then you think, do you hand it in and walk away, then start again with a loan (which would be cheaper than these garage deals)...pay the settlement then chop it in (probably wouldn't do much better than break even)....or keep it as I boringly intended.

Then I looked at what's out there...for what I paid for it £8k at 11 months old and 12k on the clock...effectively a new car...all I can get now for similar money is a Corsa or similar, anything a bit more exciting is going to be £10k...and another 4 years of payments.

So I've slouched back into inactivity on the car front and decided, after a short spell of ...oooh, maybe...to...nah, sod it, I'll keep it.


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## lane (13 Jul 2019)

MOT and service this morning. No issues whatsoever. 110,000 miles reckon its got a good bit of life in it yet.


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## Mart44 (13 Jul 2019)

The car doesn't get changed all that often, about every 8 to 10 years typically. I notice dave r mentioned an A35 earlier in the thread. My first car was the smaller engine (and back window) A30, which I wore out in no time.

These days I have a disabled persons converted Renault Kangoo that has a ramp at the back for driving a power wheelchair up. It's a noisy and rattly car but it serves the purpose well enough. I say "I" but it's really Mrs Mart44's car. It has hand controls fitted so that she can drive me home when I've had a pint or two.  Mostly though, I drive the car while she travels regally in the back sitting in the wheelchair.

Before we got this car, we had a Renault Megane Sport Tourer (an estate car really) with a wheelchair hoist and hand controls fitted. Before that a Renault Laguna fitted out the same way. These conversions cost a fair bit and with them done, we're inclined to hang on to cars for a long time.


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## Blue Hills (13 Jul 2019)

gbb said:


> My wife and daughter nearly threw a spanner in the works this morning by trying to convince me to change the car.
> 2015 1.6 Astra SRI. Underpowered, not very economical but in a months time its ours (after we pay the end of deal settlement). I'd consoled myself to keeping it, it's cheap to maintain, modestly cheap to run if you drive it carefully....and boringly. It wont set the world on fire but its reliable and it looks ok.
> 
> And then you think, do you hand it in and walk away, then start again with a loan (which would be cheaper than these garage deals)...pay the settlement then chop it in (probably wouldn't do much better than break even)....or keep it as I boringly intended.
> ...


get rid of it - that will teach them.


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## mustang1 (15 Jul 2019)

gbb said:


> My wife and daughter nearly threw a spanner in the works this morning by trying to convince me to change the car.
> 2015 1.6 Astra SRI. Underpowered, not very economical but in a months time its ours (after we pay the end of deal settlement). I'd consoled myself to keeping it, it's cheap to maintain, modestly cheap to run if you drive it carefully....and boringly. It wont set the world on fire but its reliable and it looks ok.
> 
> And then you think, do you hand it in and walk away, then start again with a loan (which would be cheaper than these garage deals)...pay the settlement then chop it in (probably wouldn't do much better than break even)....or keep it as I boringly intended.
> ...



Haven't they done the "what is the point of living if you can't have some fun?" Or the " you worked hard you deserve it" or ....


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## mustang1 (15 Jul 2019)

Denis99 said:


> Yes, it can sometimes not be ideal.
> 
> But, for 95% of the time it is ideal.
> 
> ...



And for the 5% of the time, get a 2nd car. 

The "rapid chargers are increasing every month" reminds me of "yeha get an android phone they are getting better all the time" (ok I'll just get an apple until android finally do get better then I'll switch). 

Mwhahaha


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## screenman (15 Jul 2019)

mustang1 said:


> Haven't they done the "what is the point of living if you can't have some fun?" Or the " you worked hard you deserve it" or ....



I agree with those sentiments.


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## Drago (15 Jul 2019)

The cause as much pollution as you like because you deserve it?


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## Denis99 (16 Jul 2019)

mustang1 said:


> And for the 5% of the time, get a 2nd car.
> 
> The "rapid chargers are increasing every month" reminds me of "yeha get an android phone they are getting better all the time" (ok I'll just get an apple until android finally do get better then I'll switch).
> 
> Mwhahaha



You don’t have to buy a second car for the 5% of the time that you might need one. Bus, coach, train all available , you can even 
can hire a car.

Yes , every month more rapid chargers are being installed, it’s a fact.


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## Drago (16 Jul 2019)

The "oh, I really need 4 seats" argument went through my mind when I first considered a Smart.

53 weeks later I've yet to need them. That's 53 weeks of not kicking the environment in the nuts every time I go out because I'm not dragging around an extra unnecessary 800kg. The time will one day come, probably sooner than we realise, that the demands upon the the environment a d resources will make driving a 4 or 5 seat car with only one occupant will become unlawful, and rightly so.

Most people don't "need" 4 seats, they simply allow their lifestyles to evolve to the point where such things become a convenience, and having done so they then mindlessly drag the 3 empty ones around with them wherever they go.


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## Blue Hills (16 Jul 2019)

screenman said:


> I agree with those sentiments.


Or, you've worked hard, now get off the sofa/your bike cos it's your patriotic duty to live and work some more to support a load of metal.


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## swee'pea99 (16 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> The "oh, I really need 4 seats" argument went through my mind when I first considered a Smart.
> 
> 53 weeks later I've yet to need them. That's 53 weeks of not kicking the environment in the nuts every time I go out because I'm not dragging around an extra unnecessary 800kg. The time will one day come, probably sooner than we realise, that the demands upon the the environment a d resources will make driving a 4 or 5 seat car with only one occupant will become unlawful, and rightly so.
> 
> Most people don't "need" 4 seats, they simply allow their lifestyles to evolve to the point where such things become a convenience, and having done so they then mindlessly drag the 3 empty ones around with them wherever they go.


I'd go along with that, other than ascribing it to lifestyles. I think it's actually more to do with image. 

People don't buy big expensive cars so they can transport four people; they buy big expensive cars to show the world they can. Such willy-waving becomes at least to some extent redundant in communities where people have less issues with self-image - or more subtle ways of bolstering it - but sadly the future will be dictated by the populations of places like India and China, where flaunting success isn't going out of style anytime soon. Keeping up with the Patels, or the Wongs, will be the death of us all. Or at least, of the planet.


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## Drago (16 Jul 2019)

I'm lucky and never really had a car ego. It used to infuriate my ex-wife, who hated my old Peugeot 405 with 303,000 miles on it. She was a company director and insisted on impressing g neighbours who didn't care with he Boxster S or her Elise. She bought me a BMW 740iSE for my 30th Birthday (E38, for those that care) and it infuriated her that I rarely used it, preferring to cycle or use my leaky old BMW R80GS motorbike.

It must have infuriated her even more when we divorced and I sold it to free up some badly needed liquid funds, and bought a Peugeot 406 diesel. 

Justify it anyway you like, it is willy waving at the expense of the planet. And Blue Hills makes another good point - my ex, who earned 4 times as much as I ever did, will be working into her 60s to pay for all this sheet. I've never had a car loan, and only one for a motorbike when I was in the army (and recall having to get the CO's permission!), and my Smart car cost me £345. As a result I retired shy of 50, despite having had nowhere near the same financial wherewithal as my ex has enjoyed over the years. That 4 or 5 hundred quid a month she probably had going out, was 4 or 5 hundred quid a month I stashed away instead.

If people want to work until they drop then that's their business, but doing it in order to buy more crap and to pollute the planet even further than I take that rather personally.


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## mustang1 (16 Jul 2019)

Denis99 said:


> You don’t have to buy a second car for the 5% of the time that you might need one. Bus, coach, train all available , you can even
> can hire a car.
> 
> Yes , every month more rapid chargers are being installed, it’s a fact.



Sorry, was not disputing what you mentioned about the chargers, you are right. 

I was just thinking about when I was thinking to switch from IPhone to android but was apprehensive. The android guys told me "it's getting better all the time" but to me it wasn't better enough for me to make the switch at that point (but later, when things became better, then I switched). 

It might be the same for electric cars. Once there are enough free chargers at decent locations then I will move to electric.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Jul 2019)

Mine was dirty this morning so have changed it for a clean one.


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## dan_bo (16 Jul 2019)

fossyant said:


> 15 plus years ! We buy nearly new and keep them for as long as they are reliable, being Japanese mean's a long time !




I can vouch for this. His Nissan is old but immaculate.


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## sheddy (16 Jul 2019)

Only when it breaks...


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## Drago (16 Jul 2019)

dan_bo said:


> His Nissan is old but immaculate.



"Nissan" being a northern slang term for "wife".


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## dan_bo (16 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> "Nissan" being a northern slang term for "wife".


Now then.


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## tyred (16 Jul 2019)

swee'pea99 said:


> I'd go along with that, other than ascribing it to lifestyles. I think it's actually more to do with image.
> 
> People don't buy big expensive cars so they can transport four people; they buy big expensive cars to show the world they can. Such willy-waving becomes at least to some extent redundant in communities where people have less issues with self-image - or more subtle ways of bolstering it - but sadly the future will be dictated by the populations of places like India and China, where flaunting success isn't going out of style anytime soon. Keeping up with the Patels, or the Wongs, will be the death of us all. Or at least, of the planet.



Of course it's to do with image. Nobody needs a Range Rover or an Audi Q7 or whatever. A Ford Fiesta will seat four normal sized people in relative comfort with room left over for a few bits and pieces of luggage. Very few people actually need anything bigger (and just because it's bigger doesn't necessarily mean more usable - sit outside your local Argos for a while and see how long before some struggles to get a big box inside a huge and posh German saloon car whereas is would easily fit a small hatchback with the seats folded down).

Nobody needs 200BHP either. A Morris Minor will go fast enough to get you a speeding ticket.

Small lightweight cars are actually more fun to drive on normal roads too.


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## Slick (16 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> Of course it's to do with image. Nobody needs a Range Rover or an Audi Q7 or whatever. A Ford Fiesta will seat four normal sized people in relative comfort with room left over for a few bits and pieces of luggage. Very few people actually need anything bigger (and just because it's bigger doesn't necessarily mean more usable - sit outside your local Argos for a while and see how long before some struggles to get a big box inside a huge and posh German saloon car whereas is would easily fit a small hatchback with the seats folded down).
> 
> Nobody needs 200BHP either. A Morris Minor will go fast enough to get you a speeding ticket.
> *
> Small lightweight cars are actually more fun to drive on normal roads too.*



Depends on your definition I suppose but can't honestly see it.


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## Proto (16 Jul 2019)

I’ve been travelling extensively in France, Spain and Portugal for the last couple of months. It’s noticeable that cars, particularly in France, are not bought as status symbols, but as a means of transport. Mostly small and medium sized cars, very few ‘prestige’ models.
Also noticeable that the French mostly drive French made cars. They outnumber German cars by a big margin.


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## lane (16 Jul 2019)

Yes I have noticed that on holiday in France. Much fewer large SUVs and prestigious german brands. Mind you my experience if you want to keep a car a long time don't buy French.


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## lane (16 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> The "oh, I really need 4 seats" argument went through my mind when I first considered a Smart.
> 
> 53 weeks later I've yet to need them. That's 53 weeks of not kicking the environment in the nuts every time I go out because I'm not dragging around an extra unnecessary 800kg. The time will one day come, probably sooner than we realise, that the demands upon the the environment a d resources will make driving a 4 or 5 seat car with only one occupant will become unlawful, and rightly so.
> 
> Most people don't "need" 4 seats, they simply allow their lifestyles to evolve to the point where such things become a convenience, and having done so they then mindlessly drag the 3 empty ones around with them wherever they go.



Well I have a need quite often for 4 seats we are a family of four. However I have given this some thought and what I don't need are two cars with four seats. Food for thought.


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## Profpointy (16 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> Yes I have noticed that on holiday in France. Much fewer large SUVs and prestigious german brands. Mind you my experience if you want to keep a car a long time don't buy French.



Whilst I've never owned a French car I do know friends who've done huge mileages in older peugots, diesels particularly - 250 and 350,000 miles respectively. 

That said, a work colleague scrapped a middling age Renault because a new wiper motor would have costed £1500 (mostly labour) to replace. You'd have had to take half the car to bits to get to it


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## tyred (16 Jul 2019)

Slick said:


> Depends on your definition I suppose but can't honestly see it.



Take something like an original Mini, an MG Midget, an original Golf or a Peugeot 205 on twisty back roads and you will have all the driver involvement and fun you want but at sensible speeds, then try it in a 7 series BMW and report back. Big cars are great for motorways and boring everywhere else.


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## I like Skol (16 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> Well I have a need quite often for 4 seats we are a family of four. However I have given this some thought and what I don't need are two cars with four seats. Food for thought.


We are a family of four, my car has 3 seats....


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## tyred (16 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> Yes I have noticed that on holiday in France. Much fewer large SUVs and prestigious german brands. Mind you my experience if you want to keep a car a long time don't buy French.



The French build much better rust resistant bodies than the Germans or Japanese. Peugeots and Citreons will take a few hundred thousand miles in their stride. The 406 has always been popular with taxi drivers here and they will all tell you that they were pretty indestructible.

My own 205 has done over 200,000 miles now and the engine still isn't burning any oil (and it's a base model petrol, something designed for pottering around Paris and not doing high miles).


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## Slick (16 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> Take something like an original Mini, an MG Midget, an original Golf or a Peugeot 205 on twisty back roads and you will have all the driver involvement and fun you want but at sensible speeds, then try it in a 7 series BMW and report back. Big cars are great for motorways and boring everywhere else.


Not strictly true imho. The original mini felt more like a go kart and the MG might have been of its day but that's long gone. There are lots of other cars other than the 7 series that would be described as a big car that would provide lots of fun on a clear twisting road.


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## lane (16 Jul 2019)

tyred said:


> The French build much better rust resistant bodies than the Germans or Japanese. Peugeots and Citreons will take a few hundred thousand miles in their stride. The 406 has always been popular with taxi drivers here and they will all tell you that they were pretty indestructible.
> 
> My own 205 has done over 200,000 miles now and the engine still isn't burning any oil (and it's a base model petrol, something designed for pottering around Paris and not doing high miles).



Not really my experience my 406 cost me a fortune. Good engine everything else rubbish. My Avensis costs my hardly anything. Most taxis seem to be Avensis now.


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## Drago (17 Jul 2019)

My 406 was quite robust, but in all the years I owned it I didn't do humongous mileage.


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## Richard A Thackeray (17 Jul 2019)

lane said:


> Not really my experience my 406 cost me a fortune. Good engine everything else rubbish. My Avensis costs my hardly anything. Most taxis seem to be Avensis now.


Quite a lot in the city-centre too

The Skoda Octavia runs it very close though!


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## perplexed (17 Jul 2019)

I tend to keep mine until they reach that tipping point of being not worth fixing, the repair being far more than the car is worth. This is if the bill is a 'one off', but other things are often beginning to go at this point.

Alternatively, they go when they need a repair which is not necessarily expensive as such, but there are some general niggly reliability issues. 

I tend not to swap 'em unless there's a reason in other words.


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## Richard A Thackeray (27 Jul 2019)

@Drago

Can you see this?
Strange Rover features


View: https://www.facebook.com/352480858110735/videos/747985055598643/UzpfSTEwMDAwMDUwNTE0OTA4NjoyOTI3MTM2MjMzOTc5ODUz/


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## Profpointy (31 Jul 2019)

Continuing the tale of my Saab, just had a £1300 bill - doubtless more than the car's value, but it represented a lot of different jobs and it now feels like new to drive. Lots of suspension bits replaced, new front brakes (discs only £45 each to be fair) plus an air con fix. Back to economy luxury motoring !

Whilst Mrs PP concedes it's nice to drive on a run, she really would like a smaller car as it's narrow for parking round our street. To be fair I'd prefer a smaller car, but this is such a joy to drive and notwithstanding the above bill is genuinely cheap motoring, particularly for a genuinely lovely, albeit old car.


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## SpokeyDokey (31 Jul 2019)

Profpointy said:


> Continuing the tale of my Saab, just had a £1300 bill - doubtless more than the car's value, but it represented a lot of different jobs and it now feels like new to drive. Lots of suspension bits replaced, new front brakes (discs only £45 each to be fair) plus an air con fix. Back to economy luxury motoring !
> 
> Whilst Mrs PP concedes it's nice to drive on a run, she really would like a smaller car as it's narrow for parking round our street. To be fair I'd prefer a smaller car, but this is such a joy to drive and notwithstanding the above bill is genuinely cheap motoring, particularly for a genuinely lovely, albeit old car.



Nice cars the old Saabs - we had three 9-5 Estates back in the late 90's (not at the same time!) all company cars and I used to get a new one each year. The Aero HOT was a bit of a beast although the front end squirmed a bit when hoofing through bends.

I thought they were making a post-bankruptcy comeback through some Chinese outfit?

Strange beast Saab (the old over-arching group that is) - product of a pacifist country making machines of war and death. I never could get my head around that. But then life is full of compromised principles.


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## Drago (31 Jul 2019)

SAAB were always quick to highlight the fighter jet connection in their advertising, but strangely failed to mention that the engines were built by Volvo.

The ex Mrs D had a 9000 Carlsson in the late 90s. Went like greased weasel sheet, but you're correct when you mention the chassis struggling to contain it.


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## Richard A Thackeray (31 Jul 2019)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Do you remember the original Strange Rover, by Keith Gott
> Circa 1977-1978
> Old copy of _Hot Car_. from back them, that's still in the hoarded piles
> 
> ...



Found it!, whilst looking for something else
Along with another magazine, featuring one of the most highly desirable M-Bs (along with an original G-Wagon, or 'Gull-Wing')
Oh & a 4x4 Dutton...…………..

August 81, for the _'Hot Car'_
June 87, for the _'O-R & 4WD'_


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## steveindenmark (25 Dec 2019)

I rarely change my car. Even less so now cars are so modernised 

I bought my Kia Picanto 10 years ago with 60,000km on the clock. It now has 217,000km. Thats 5 times around the earth. 

I top the oil up a couple of times a year and thats about it. I spent £400 this year on a couple of tyres and some suspension work. But that is by far the most I have spent on it. It runs perfectly.


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## Justinitus (25 Dec 2019)

I had company cars for many years, normally replaced every 3 years. 

Since 2014, I’ve leased my own cars (with maintenance included) so I know what my monthly outgoings would be and no surprise bills! I’m not too fussy, I just look for deals but they take some finding as I need an auto due to back issues and they’re not so common. Usually for 2yrs a pop, but the current Volvo is 3yrs as it worked out cheaper.


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## Gunk (25 Dec 2019)

Justinitus said:


> I had company cars for many years, normally replaced every 3 years.
> 
> Since 2014, I’ve leased my own cars (with maintenance included) so I know what my monthly outgoings would be and no surprise bills! I’m not too fussy, I just look for deals but they take some finding as I need an auto due to back issues and they’re not so common. Usually for 2yrs a pop, but the current Volvo is 3yrs as it worked out cheaper.



I also had company cars for years (since 1986) so we always had at least one new car every three years. My last company car a Golf GTD was in 2015, I sold my company in 2018, and bought the car off the finance company which I still have. My wife’s cars we’ve always kept until they fall apart, her last 325i touring we had for 8 years. Previous to that she had a 330i touring which we had for 7 years.





It’s replacement, again we’ll just keep until it falls apart. It’s a nice car and far cheaper to run than the BMW’s.


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## oldwheels (25 Dec 2019)

I got a Peugeot Partner couple of years ago because my local garage was making ominous remarks
about the rear suspension of the Fiat Panda and three of the wheels collapsed and would not hold air any longer. Seats removed easily from the Peugeot and it holds my Ice Trike and Brompton and if the trike is folded it also takes the Bike Friday unfolded. There is also a tow bar which makes a trailer a useful accessory.


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