# Couch to 5K



## Piemaster (26 Mar 2012)

Anyone tried the cto5k program or podcasts?
Just completed week 1, and, ooooh........ my calves!
Firstly, I'm not a runner. Never have been. Bike - never struggled with distances of 30-40 miles, even after breaks of a couple of months due to work, and always thought I could do another 20 more than that reasonably easily.

So how hard can a few minutes running be? (though the swim as well this morning was maybe pushing things a bit) I'm also starting off barefoot too as I spend as much time as possible that way anyway, and bought a pair of vibram fivefingers classics that I wore a lot last year in the warmer weather.

Target is to get to the 5k before my birthday. Timing should just work out right.


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## The Jogger (26 Mar 2012)

I did this in 2005 I found it on what was then the cool running forum. I started in the January from zero fitness at 47 and by June I completed a 10K in 54 mins. I then ran a hilly half marathon and then many more hilly trail races after that. IMHO is the best program ever to get people running from scratch.

When was reading the barefoot bit I was thinking of the vibrams, I've thought about using them but never have, what are they like to run in?


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## Becs (26 Mar 2012)

my friend's a gp and she recommends it - never tried it myself though


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## smokeysmoo (26 Mar 2012)

C25K is a cracking way to get into running. A word of caution, I know you've just spent a load of cash on 5 fingers, BUT, as you're just starting out I'd strongly advise you to get gait analysis done. Most 'proper' running shops should offer it as part of their service, and it shouldn't actually cost anything, (my local running shop doesn't charge anyway).

I've only recently done it after years of on/off running, and I very much wish I'd done it sooner. The wrong shoes could have huge implications as you start to increase your mileage. If the Vibram's are right for your gait then happy days, if not then swallow your pride, get your hand in your pocket, and make sure you get what the gait analysis recommends. 

Also, try and find a Parkrun near you, (although I can't imagine there are many in the North Sea!). These are organised weekly timed runs, and best of all they're FREE!
Have a look at http://www.parkrun.com/home. We get all sorts of people at ours from club runners to speed walkers to 82 year Malcolm who's never missed a run in over a year! 

Join in if you can and good luck with your progress


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## Sittingduck (27 Mar 2012)

Started it around Christmas but developed some lower back pain and had to put it on hold until last week. The back pain turned out to be caused by something else but I didn't want to aggravate it by running jogging. Currently about to do Week 3 day 2 and have found it pretty easy, so far. I had a reasonable level of cardio fitness before I started, however. I am also a bit lighter than I was at Christmas and this obviously helps massively, in regard to such things.

I am doing it on a treadmill, so that may help to explain the relative ease of it (so far). I use one of the iPhone apps for it, to keep me on track.

I have only ever heard good things about the program!

Good luck


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## Piemaster (27 Mar 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> C25K is a cracking way to get into running. A word of caution, I know you've just spent a load of cash on 5 fingers, BUT, as you're just starting out I'd strongly advise you to get gait analysis done. Most 'proper' running shops should offer it as part of their service, and it shouldn't actually cost anything, (my local running shop doesn't charge anyway).
> 
> I've only recently done it after years of on/off running, and I very much wish I'd done it sooner. The wrong shoes could have huge implications as you start to increase your mileage. If the Vibram's are right for your gait then happy days, if not then swallow your pride, get your hand in your pocket, and make sure you get what the gait analysis recommends.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the encouragement 
Theres a parkrun in the park I've been running in, but I never knew about it until Saturday when I was there for my own more modest run. I asked one of the stewards (thinking it was a Sport Relief related thing) and he told me about it. Joining one something else to give me a goal to aim at.
A trip to the running store in centre of town looks like a good idea. I wore the vibrams most of last summer more as a pair of flip-flops than anything else as I don't get on with flip=flops much. They were never bought for running in, but as I had them anyway.....


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## The Jogger (27 Mar 2012)

Sittingduck said:


> Started it around Christmas but developed some lower back pain and had to put it on hold until last week. The back pain turned out to be caused by something else but I didn't want to aggravate it by running jogging. Currently about to do Week 3 day 2 and have found it pretty easy, so far. I had *a reasonable level of cardio fitness* before I started, however. I am also a bit lighter than I was at Christmas and this obviously helps massively, in regard to such things.
> 
> *I am doing it on a treadmill*, so that may help to explain the relative ease of it (so far). I use one of the iPhone apps for it, to keep me on track.
> 
> ...


 
ST you have much more than a reasonable level of cardio fitness from what I could see on Pete's New Forest ride last year. When I did the C25K i did it outside after having done the tradmill before I started it, there is just no comparison imo, honest, go on get out there and good luck with it.


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## Sittingduck (27 Mar 2012)

Scary place, that pavement is  I am scared to screw up my knees on concrete and being in an air conditioned gym, with TV's is quite pleasant


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## VamP (27 Mar 2012)

Be careful witht the bare-foot running, it requires a different running technique and a slow gradual build-up. There is a lot of information about barefoot running on the web and I would urge you to spend some time studying it.


My girlfriend is an accomplished runner (10k PB under 40 minutes) and she spent several months converting to barefoot, and even now does a portion of her training in regular running shoes. She likes her fivefingers, but then she's a bit of a hippy at heart


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## Piemaster (27 Mar 2012)

I've never been a runner, so not so much of a problem transitioning from regular shoes to barefoot, the cto5k is nice and slow too. I read a fair bit about it before even buying th fivefingers - even though I never had any intention of running at the time, after all I had a bike, why would I want to run? Times change though.
I've been wearing a pair of vivobarefoot shoes a fair bit too. Stupidly comfy, mostly I think due to the width. Think its being barefoot normally as much as possible has has allowed my feet to spread (think I'm a bit of a hippie too) so normal shoes just seem to pinch now. I've just bought some Northwave shoes for the bike (see post in cafe) in an attempt have something a bit more comfy on the bike.


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## Piemaster (9 Jun 2012)

Did my first parkrun (Hull) this morning so I'm officially calling myself a runner 
Hadn't quite finished the couch to 5k, had done the distance but some of it was part of the warm-up/cool-down brisk walk. but as I was due to start week 8 today (28 minute block of running) thought I'd give it a try and could always finish off walking the last bit if I needed to.
In the end I ran the whole course in 33 minutes, found it was MUCH easier running with other people than alone, with my pacemaking done by a lovely 60+ year old lady who complained afterwards she was a bit slower than usual due to having done the 10k Jane Tomlinson run last weekend. I am awestruck.

Lots of friendly people (regular attendance is around 300 - one of the best attended in the country). Certainly won't be the last one I go to.
Still running 'minimalist' rather than completely barefoot - now with a pair of komodosports


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2012)

Careful, it can become quite addictive, don't forget you have a bike.


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## Piemaster (9 Jun 2012)

Crackle said:


> Careful, it can become quite addictive, don't forget you have a bike.


 
More than one...... Only seems to be the shopping (xtracycle'd) bike thats getting much use at the moment. The road bike waits patiently for it to be dry as it doesn't go out when it's wet - it's carbon you see so will melt in the rain.


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## Nihal (9 Jun 2012)

I recently asked about running on another thread.But i've put that on hold due to a little time constraint.Also i want to cut some weight off my middle before i start cause some websites say running with weingt around the middle is not very comfortable.I plan to start next month meanwhile i have made good progress inso i'm good for nowAlso i realised i could actually run at a moderate speed for about 15min as i went with a friend,But it was'nt good


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## MrJamie (9 Jun 2012)

I started the Bupa version of Cto5k at over 20 stone and went on to run a half marathon, didnt have any problems but i think its really important to listen to your body. I still try to run ~6k twice a week if the weathers alright, I run more in winter and cycle more in summer though.

Ive wanted to try Vibrams, but my uber cushioned asics have done me well and ive never had any pain or strain in my joints. Im still a big heavy oaf and high arched with very little pronation in my gait so a recipe for problems with big impacts.


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## smokeysmoo (9 Jun 2012)

I got into Parkrun at the start of the year. They are a great way to get into running. The Bolton one usually has around 150 runners which is a good amount, 300 on our course would be a nightmare TBH.

I've got out the habit these past few weeks and hadn't run since the Bolton 10km back in April, but I decided mid week I was going today, but then I went out on Wednesday and did 10km from cold! *fool* My legs are just starting to feel my own again today, ergo I didn't do Parkrun today 

I'll be back next Saturday. My PB so far is 28:20. I won't be near that for a while but I definitely need to get back into it.

FWIW I'd strongly recommend gait analysis to anyone starting running. I always fancied the 5 fingers, but I'm glad I didn't get any as I now know they'd have been completely wrong for my feet.


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## Baggy (9 Jun 2012)

After a break of 5 years I've just started a very similar programme to the C25k. It never ceases to amaze me just how little bike fitness translates to running fitness - but it's also amazing how quickly your fitness improves. My knees are a bit painful so I might knock running on the head until I'm cycling less over winter, having spent 18 months sorting out a knee problem it would be a bit daft to overdo it.

That said, I've got an appointment next week to have my old orthotics reviewed, so that might improve things.


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## Glover Fan (9 Jun 2012)

My opinion is that running helps cycling more than cycling helps running. If that makes sense.


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2012)

Glover Fan said:


> My opinion is that running helps cycling more than cycling helps running. If that makes sense.


 
It does and I agree. The only thing you'll lack is a bit of power and some speed but endurance will be fine.


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## Piemaster (9 Jun 2012)

Just been emailed my official time - 30:48 . I'm now even more pleased with my first ever full 5K as going sub-30 was a vague target for sometime during this year. Running with others is definitely a big boost to me.

As for the fivefingers - they work for me.
As per my OP I've had a pair of the Classics for over a year and used them as flip-flops and am barefoot whenever possible. I've also had a pair of vivobarefoot aquas that I've lived in for around 3 years now. So, for me, the transition from a normal running shoe wasn't an issue as I started the c25K minimalist anyway.

BTW - I'm 100kg, so no lightweight, the running has helped me lose around 4 kg over the course together with dieting. I don't find I'm 'pounding' the pavement at all. Indeed as there is no cushoning on the shoes pounding a heel into the ground hurts so I find I'm probably taking more but shorter steps and landing lightly on the forefoot. This video explains it better than I can.

Can't see any of it matters really. Run in whatever way works for you and keeps you injury free and enjoying it.

Nihal - one of the reasons for taking up running was time contraints. I could go trough the c25k podcast and be pretty much showered and changed inside an hour. I'd want a good couple of hours out on the bike. Plus working away a fair bit means I don't have a bike available all the time - a top, shorts and shoes are easy to take with me.


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Jun 2012)

I come from a running background (18min 5k, 36min 10k, sub 4 marathon ) and believe that the barefoot and minimalist footwear trend is a fad. One of the most accomplished barefoot runners of our time Zola Budd, a person who grew up running barefoot, trained barefoot and raced barefoot still runs.. and guess what she now wears running shoes, the reason she has stated this is to minimize injury.
The biometric and podiatry profession are also seeing an increase in stress fractures in line with the increase in popularity of minimalist shoes, which I find interesting and often overlooked by the supporters or minimalist shoes.
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=48566
Its starting to be discussed on other blogs and sites as well.
http://joemaller.com/2861/barefoot-running-stress-fractures-a-theory/

Vibram now have a number of class action law suits against them for injurys cased by these types of shoes. It will be interesting to see how this ends up.
People forget that the five finger shoes were never ever designed for running in, it was designed as a boat shoe, they were designed to grip the surface of a slippery deck. It was only when the Vibram CEO Ted McDonald also known as barefoot ted started promoting them for running and made a nice living from doing such that they were even considered by the majority of runners.

There is so much misinformation about minimalist footwear, there has never ever been any proof that they reduce injury or are better for you, in fact the widely quoted work of Dr Daniel E. Lieberman has now resulted in him updating the website to clarify that the research states that he does not conclude that running shoes cause injury and there is the possibility that going with minimalist shoes or barefoot may.

Don't get caught up in the myths, or the hype, look for the science
http://www.runningbarefootisbad.com


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## Piemaster (9 Jun 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Don't get caught up in the myths, or the hype, look for the science
> http://www.runningbarefootisbad.com


 
Wow! Top ranting, think the site owner may have some issues.There is even a 'rants' catagory .
I'll take note of a reasoned argument but having just spent the last 15 minutes following circular links to other parts of the site without seeing any I closed the tab, having given up looking for the science.

How Zola Budd or Barefoot Ted run hardly counts as comprehensive research either . Or Eddy Izzard runnning (mostly) barefoot in S. Africa for that matter. I don't actually believe any study will ever be conclusive either way - statistics and studies can always be skewed by varying the methodology to reflect the interests of those conducting it.

Fivefingers are working for *ME. *Whatever you wear works for you (very impressively too). Perhaps it's because my abilities and limits are much less than yours.


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## Garz (9 Jun 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> FWIW I'd strongly recommend gait analysis to anyone starting running. I always fancied the 5 fingers, but I'm glad I didn't get any as I now know they'd have been completely wrong for my feet.


 
Smokey is there a recommended place in or around Bolton as although I cycle when I can, I like to run every now and again to mix it up. As I am a heavier build, my Asics seem to work however I have never had any running analysis?


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## smokeysmoo (10 Jun 2012)

Garz said:


> Smokey is there a recommended place in or around Bolton as although I cycle when I can, I like to run every now and again to mix it up. As I am a heavier build, my Asics seem to work however I have never had any running analysis?


I went to FOOT TRAFFIC on the A666 Blackburn Road close to Asda at Astley Bridge. He gives you a pair of neutral trainers and puts you an a treadmill with a video camera at foot height. Films you for a couple of minutes then plays it back. I was over pronating on both feet, but far more on my left foot. He brought out various 'suitable' trainers to try. 

Some weren't a great fit, (I'm a large UK12 so this was no surprise), but any that did fit immediately cancelled out the over pronation. It was quite fascinating to actually watch it back. 

I decided to push the boat and got a pair of Mizuno Wave Inspire 8, but I told Mrs S they were 'only' £50 

It's the first time I have ever bought a pair of trainers for what they do rather than what they look like. Another reason for choosing the Mizuno was that I wanted shoes I wouldn't be tempted to wear casually, in other words I wanted them just for the purpose of running, and these ticked all those boxes.


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## Garz (10 Jun 2012)

Excellent, thanks for that. I think I know where you mean it's by the oxfam shop.


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## smokeysmoo (10 Jun 2012)

Garz said:


> Excellent, thanks for that. I think I know where you mean it's by the oxfam shop.


That's the one. Oxfam is on the end of the block and Foot Traffic is in the middle


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## Nosaj (11 Jun 2012)

Couch to 5k is really good.

A lot better than not running properly since school since for quite a few years then going out and running 5k in 23 minutes about 20 years later....Ouch

Cycling will give you the lungs for the run but certainly does not give you the muscular/tendon/ligament hardware to just go out and run. You do need a certain time for your body to adapt.


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## Piemaster (11 Jun 2012)

I've always found cycling much easier than running. I think its (for me) because I can slow down on the bike (smaller gears, reduced cadence) to make it easier if I start to run out of puff. Slowing down when running means..err..walking - theres a speed below which it isn't running anymore, cycling is always cycling even if I'm only achieving walking pace and being overtaken by elderly ladies on a Pashley.

Having been brave and risked taking the road bike out this morning (stayed dry - yay!) I'd go along with Glover Fan's post in that it now _feels_ like I can push myself on the bike a bit harder for longer. From what I saw of John Bishops efforts for his charity cycle/row/run his trainer had him doing a lot of running in preparation for it to build stammina and endurance.


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## Garz (11 Jun 2012)

Nosaj said:


> Cycling will give you the lungs for the run but certainly does not give you the muscular/tendon/ligament hardware to just go out and run. You do need a certain time for your body to adapt.


 
Very true!


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## MrJamie (11 Jun 2012)

Piemaster said:


> I've always found cycling much easier than running. I think its (for me) because I can slow down on the bike (smaller gears, reduced cadence) to make it easier if I start to run out of puff. Slowing down when running means..err..walking - theres a speed below which it isn't running anymore, cycling is always cycling even if I'm only achieving walking pace and being overtaken by elderly ladies on a Pashley.


I went from running to cycling and totally agree about it being easier that way round because cycling lets you go as slow as you like.

The biggest difference for me is when im running im on the limit of my cardio for most of my run and going past it for the finish really pushing myself even in training, but i struggle to push myself to do the same with cycling even though its possible. Hills force me to work hard, but theres usually a flat or downhill sooner or later to recover a bit. Also here at least its pretty easy to make a 5-10k running route that doesnt cross a road or have any reason to stop, but the cycle paths have too many intersections and road crossings. Strava has helped motivate me to go for some sprint sections though and push hard up hills. It might even be a weight thing as me+hybrid=140kg, uphills are very hard work, flats are nice and downhill i can overtake without pedalling so it becomes more like intervals, hopefully will be a lot better minus 30kg. 

Edit: Also dont 100% trust the gait analysis guys, theres plenty of people who get the wrong analysis especially when youre asked to run in the confines of a shop and gait can change as you get used to running. Id watched the people i run with and it gets quite easy to see pronation and im quite sure that my friend was sold the wrong shoes.


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