# Do you change down gears before stopping at traffic lights?



## Thursday guy (12 Jun 2015)

I find that I can get off to a quicker start than almost everyone else when I change down before I stop and start pedaling at a low gear. But this obviously requires changing gears very often, which I'm not sure if you're meant to do?


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## ianrauk (12 Jun 2015)

Do what ever you like. If it works for you (and it works for me) then go for it.


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## coffeejo (12 Jun 2015)

Only when I remember. The chances of me doing so decrease if the lights / junction are at the bottom of a hill or fast stretch, especially if the gradient increases immediately after.


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## raleighnut (12 Jun 2015)

I do when I remember to, better that than to try starting in too high a gear and trying to downshift when you are only pedalling slowly.
BTW gears are there to be used, I don't think you wear them out by changing but you can hear the click,click. graunch of someone trying to downshift behind you quite regularly.


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## screenman (12 Jun 2015)

Always, you would not pull away in 4th in your car so why do it on a bike.


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## MiK1138 (12 Jun 2015)

Most times i do, for quicker gataways, but there are so many things to remember, change gear, unclip, brake. no wonder people RLJ


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## deptfordmarmoset (12 Jun 2015)

Usually I do but sometimes I get out of the saddle and start in a higher gear.


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## swansonj (12 Jun 2015)

No, I change down gears after stopping at the traffic lights. (Irritatingly smug hub-gear user speaking. I definitely choose lower gears for pulling away from static on my hub-geared solo than the dérailleur tandem, because it's so much easier.)


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## screenman (12 Jun 2015)

MiK1138 said:


> Most times i do, for quicker gataways, but there are so many things to remember, change gear, unclip, brake. no wonder people RLJ



Do you actually have to think about those things?


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## potsy (12 Jun 2015)

Yes, unless I'm on the single-speed then I just try to until I realise I haven't got any


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## Bianchi boy (12 Jun 2015)

Generally change down as I approach traffic lights, but if I forget I usually stay clipped in on right foot, and lift to spin rear wheel to get back down into low gear, Blimey confused myself there


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## raleighnut (12 Jun 2015)

swansonj said:


> No, I change down gears after stopping at the traffic lights. (Irritatingly smug hub-gear user speaking. I definitely choose lower gears for pulling away from static on my hub-geared solo than the dérailleur tandem, because it's so much easier.)


I was waiting for a reply from a Rohloff rider, smug git.  (I'm jealous really, I've been known to lift my back wheel up a touch and grab a gear 2 or 3 down from the one I've stopped in if there is a hill after the lights.)


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## raleighnut (12 Jun 2015)

Bianchi boy said:


> Generally change down as I approach traffic lights, but if I forget I usually stay clipped in on right foot, and lift to spin rear wheel to get back down into low gear, Blimey confused myself there


SNAP.


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## Katherine (12 Jun 2015)

Yes, when I remember. Stand on the pedals if I forget.


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## velovoice (12 Jun 2015)

Yes, almost always. It's recommended for people (like me) with bad knees. Took a lot of practice (as with unclipping) but worth it.


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## HertzvanRental (12 Jun 2015)

The circuits I bimble round don't have any traffic lights!!


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## summerdays (12 Jun 2015)

Yes usually unless it's really late change and I only just stop, in which case I'm pulling on the brakes. I'm someone who changes gears lots.


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## buggi (12 Jun 2015)

Yes. You wouldn't pull away in your car in 4th gear, so why make it hard on yourself on a bike?


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Jun 2015)

Yes, I do when I ride in traffic - as opposite to a segregated path.
I really do not like the whole gear thing, too much coordinated multitasking for somebody that does not know right from left 
Alas, when you're slow like me you need gears on the road.
Btw, you're supposed to, the cyclecraft book says so.


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## Dan B (12 Jun 2015)

Yes, when I remember to (depends on how much else is going on). Not so much on the fixed, though


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## shouldbeinbed (12 Jun 2015)

Smug hubbie here too. Change down when I stop.


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## winjim (12 Jun 2015)

I have no idea. Probably. My bike riding reflexes just kick in while my conscious mind watches for traffic and stuff.


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## snorri (12 Jun 2015)

buggi said:


> Yes. You wouldn't pull away in your car in 4th gear, so why make it hard on yourself on a bike?


TMN to Screenman.


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## mjr (13 Jun 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Smug hubbie here too. Change down when I stop.


I still often change down as I'm slowing, else I forget and strain my knees when I'm riding a derailleur bike.


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## slowmotion (13 Jun 2015)

I usually do. I didn't last year after a rehydration session at All Bar One at the end of the Southend FNRttC. I put a bit of force onto the cranks as the lights turned green going into Parliament Square and broke the chain in three lanes of traffic. I'm not strong or heavy, I just started off in a higher gear than I'm used to. You feel surprisingly helpless going absolutely nowhere as the cars accelerate around you beeping their horns.


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## Shut Up Legs (13 Jun 2015)

Thursday guy said:


> I find that I can get off to a quicker start than almost everyone else when I change down before I stop and start pedaling at a low gear. But this obviously requires changing gears very often, which I'm not sure if you're meant to do?


Unless the traffic lights are on a downhill section, where higher gears are better for a quick start.


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## slowmotion (13 Jun 2015)

summerdays said:


> Yes usually unless it's really late change and I only just stop, in which case I'm pulling on the brakes. I'm someone who changes gears lots.


 I change gears a lot too. I simply can't believe that the engine isn't putting the power into the wheels....


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## ufkacbln (13 Jun 2015)

For most junctions, I drop a couple of gears so if the junction is clear then I can power through, or stop if required.

TRaffic lights are the same, except you can predict more certainly whetehr you will need to stop.

However as most of my bikes / trikes have Rohloff it is a moot point as changing gears when stationary s not an issue


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## cd365 (13 Jun 2015)

Always


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## donnydave (13 Jun 2015)

I always drop down to one particular gear that I use for setting off as its far less stress on knees and chain and is quicker to get back up to speed. I normally do it while braking I'll "under-pedal" as I call it to change gears as I come to a stop. I do it automatically without thinking. I then have a set gear that I normally cruise at. Incidentally those two gears get noticeably more wear so they get replaced regularly, and the whole cassette every three "start and cruise" gear replacements.

As far as the comparisons to cars go and not setting off in 4th, I have found the solution here is an absolutely massive v8 - 1st gear is for carefully rolling out of the garage, then put it straight in 4th and forget about it


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## Supersuperleeds (13 Jun 2015)

I thought we all jumped red lights and therefore if anything we should be changing up gears as we tear through them


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## shouldbeinbed (13 Jun 2015)

mjray said:


> I still often change down as I'm slowing, else I forget and strain my knees when I'm riding a derailleur bike.


Likewise with my derailleur bikes & dodgy knees but I've found I'm gravitating so much to the hub gears nowadays. MTB is going to be kept as a winter studded hack cos its worth nowt to anyone but me and I'm in the process of moving my last roadie on.

*if anyone fancies a 54cm Coppi San Remo approx 10 y.o. that runs nicely but is cosmetically in need of TLC then watch the sales section soon if my pal at work doesn't fit it*


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## Drago (13 Jun 2015)

Yes I do.

Why would I not? Is not attempting to keep with the traffic flow de rigeur now?


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## Yellow Saddle (13 Jun 2015)

I do it without thinking, it is just natural and no matter how many other things there are to think about my brain parses that action in the background.


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## Dan B (13 Jun 2015)

Drago said:


> Yes I do.
> 
> Why would I not? Is not attempting to keep with the traffic flow de rigeur now?


I don't know when you learned to drive, but when I was taught, we were told to slow down using the brakes and then select first gear when stopped. That was ten years ago or so, so I expect a lot of the traffic flow you're keeping with is not changing down through the gears either


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## Tanis8472 (13 Jun 2015)

Dan B said:


> I don't know when you learned to drive, but when I was taught, we were told to slow down using the brakes and then select first gear when stopped. That was ten years ago or so, so I expect a lot of the traffic flow you're keeping with is not changing down through the gears either



That to my mind is a bloody awful way to drive. Were you also told to brake going downhill in a car?
Using the gears makes sure you are always in the right one to accelerate again if needed.


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## Brightski (13 Jun 2015)

Thursday guy said:


> I find that I can get off to a quicker start than almost everyone else when I change down before I stop and start pedaling at a low gear. But this obviously requires changing gears very often, which I'm not sure if you're meant to do?


I do it


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## Full Metal Sprocket (13 Jun 2015)

What gears?


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## Sandra6 (13 Jun 2015)

I tend to ride in the same gear most of the time anyway. Unless the lights were at the bottom of a particularly steep hill I wouldn't be in too high a gear to set off comfortably.


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## Feastie (13 Jun 2015)

Always! Unless the lights change on me really quickly and I have no time. Otherwise I would strain my dodgy knees and end up unable to run for a few days.

I trashed my knees in the first place (or so I believe...) by riding in the same gear all the time.


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## TheSoulReaver03 (13 Jun 2015)

screenman said:


> Always, you would not pull away in 4th in your car so why do it on a bike.



Because the car engine dies when starting on 4th gear. Your legs don't.


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## TheSoulReaver03 (13 Jun 2015)

User said:


> They may not completely die but they are way from the most comfortable and efficient range.



That only goes for the first 4 or 6 pedal strokes, depending on your starting efficiency. I have old-style lever shifters so I don't usually shift down when stopping.


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## shouldbeinbed (13 Jun 2015)

Dan B said:


> I don't know when you learned to drive, but when I was taught, we were told to slow down using the brakes and then select first gear when stopped. That was ten years ago or so, so I expect a lot of the traffic flow you're keeping with is not changing down through the gears either


Slightly different in a car in that you can change gear when stationary though rather than needing the drive wheel moving to enable the derailleur to unship and resite the chain.

However wirh a lot more rhan 10 years since learning to drive I was taught & always have changed gear to match the speed I am doing, if I'm driving along at 30 in 4th slowing down gradually to a stop, if I don't change down as my speed drops then the engine is increasingly under revving and likely to stall.


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## coffeejo (13 Jun 2015)

It also works the other way and just to prove it, I kindly demonstrated both this afternoon.

1) I was happily cycling along a narrow country lane when I saw a farm vehicle towing a trailer coming the other way, so stopped in a gate way to let him past. Had one of those "why won't my bike move" moments afterwards - standing start in the big ring was never going to end well.

2) Later on, I got to the top of a small hill and promptly inhaled a fly. I kept going down the other side but freewheeled whilst drinking water to shift the little blighter. Problem solved, I put the bottle back in the cage and started pedalling. Cue comedy legs-as-propellers moment.


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## Pat "5mph" (13 Jun 2015)

User said:


> Oh no, something else to worry about. How do I measure this?


By the number of beeps from the car behind you: no beeps, you're extremely efficient ... couple of beeps, there's room for improvement.
Squashed, you need to work harder on your starting efficiency.


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## Dan B (13 Jun 2015)

Efficiency vs effectiveness: not the same thing


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## Dan B (13 Jun 2015)

Tanis8472 said:


> That to my mind is a bloody awful way to drive. Were you also told to brake going downhill in a car?
> Using the gears makes sure you are always in the right one to accelerate again if needed.


http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/block-gear-changing.html explains it in more detail


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## swansonj (13 Jun 2015)

One of my pet hates: believing that a car engine, an exquisitely engineered device for driving a car forward, is better to use for slowing a car down than the brakes, devices engineered for ... err ... slowing a car down.

Another of my pet hates: believing that the average driver should always be in the best gear to accelerate if needed, so that in the event of the inevitable gang of terrorists in a black van opening fire, they are perfectly placed to accelerate away, zig zagging successfully between random terrified pedestrians and taking the next two corners at 70 mph on two wheels. The average driver (like me) should not be encouraged into a mind set where accelerating out of trouble is at the front of their mind; they should be encouraged into a mindset where their first reaction is to get to a stop as quickly as possible.


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## MichaelW2 (14 Jun 2015)

I used to negotiate a busy, long and narrow 5-way, traffic-light crossing on an uphill (pic) . Changing down was essential, but one time, I forgot. As was grinding uphill at 5mph, the lights changed and a car came driving towards me from the rear quarter. I instinctively hammered the pedals under the effect adrenaline and felt something snap in my knee. It took years to recover fully from that injury.
I am now a smug and happy hub-gear user and if I forget to change before stopping, I just change whilst stopped.


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## Arrowfoot (14 Jun 2015)

Tanis8472 said:


> That to my mind is a bloody awful way to drive. Were you also told to brake going downhill in a car?
> Using the gears makes sure you are always in the right one to accelerate again if needed.



I think he is referring to stop, sharp deceleration or a turn where you know that you should be taking it at 2nd etc. its called block gear changing. Pointless going thru all the gears and let the engine brake do its thing.


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## Tanis8472 (14 Jun 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> I think he is referring to stop, sharp deceleration or a turn where you know that you should be taking it at 2nd etc. its called block gear changing. Pointless going thru all the gears and let the engine brake do its thing.



Yeah, i think you probably right. I may have mis-read the post.
There is nothing wrong with block changing, I do it.
Besides, riding a motorbike you must go through the gears or you will be stuck in a higher gear clunking and banging trying to get to first while stationary.

I've heard from a lot of folk that they are taught to coast to lights out of gear on the brakes.


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## Tanis8472 (14 Jun 2015)

BTW i have read and use Roadcraft maual that the police use


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## Feastie (14 Jun 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Slightly different in a car in that you can change gear when stationary though rather than needing the drive wheel moving to enable the derailleur to unship and resite the chain.
> 
> However wirh a lot more rhan 10 years since learning to drive I was taught & always have changed gear to match the speed I am doing, if I'm driving along at 30 in 4th slowing down gradually to a stop, if I don't change down as my speed drops then the engine is increasingly under revving and likely to stall.



I was actually taught in my driving test specifically not to do this - the engine will only stall if you come to almost a complete halt and then try to pull off, otherwise being at lower revs isn't a problem. According to my driving instructor, driving in a higher gear than the speed needs (e.g. 4th or 5th gear for 30mph) actually means the car uses less petrol because you're using less revs... thereby saving both money and the environment, hurrah. Also sparing the gears on the car. 
Often when I'm slowing down to a junction I just disengage the gears completely and coast in on the clutch.

Of course if you want to pull away, manoeuvre or suddenly accelerate you then have to change, but if you're just driving along normally and aren't intent on overtaking people, then that's how they teach it now... or at least when I did my test in 2009!


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## raleighnut (14 Jun 2015)

Changing down through the gears in a car whilst slowing used to be necessary when cars had non-synchromesh (crash) gearboxes, if you didn't do it then you would not be able to select another gear until stationary. This also went hand in hand with double de-clutching.
Also people who have ridden motorcycles are in the habit of changing down through the gearbox when slowing, especially when turning left into a side street. Far better technique than the car drivers who turn left and then are forced to change down after the turning or 'lug' the car along with the engine 'pinking' its nuts off before they decide they should really be in 2nd gear.


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## donnydave (14 Jun 2015)

swansonj said:


> One of my pet hates: believing that a car engine, an exquisitely engineered device for driving a car forward, is better to use for slowing a car down than the brakes, devices engineered for ... err ... slowing a car down.


Can help save fuel though by lifting off and using a bit of engine braking


swansonj said:


> Another of my pet hates: believing that the average driver should always be in the best gear to accelerate if needed, so that in the event of the inevitable gang of terrorists in a black van opening fire, they are perfectly placed to accelerate away, zig zagging successfully between random terrified pedestrians and taking the next two corners at 70 mph on two wheels. The average driver (like me) should not be encouraged into a mind set where accelerating out of trouble is at the front of their mind; they should be encouraged into a mindset where their first reaction is to get to a stop as quickly as possible.



Mix of both is best surely - the average driver should hopefully be able to assess the situation and react accordingly rather than just stopping dead at the first sign of trouble. As far as "always being in the best gear to accelerate if needed" I don't think that's quite relevant to this discussion, if you're cruising along then obviously select the most efficient (probably highest) gear. Here its more about coming up to a roundabout for example, slow down to see whats going on but perhaps have 2nd gear engaged ready so you can come off the brakes and go straight away if its clear, rather than seeing a gap, then having to faff around with gears and cutting it a bit fine, or what I see often - people turning out of junctions and then are clearly still in a high gear and crawling along presumably rattling their teeth out at 500rpm


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## TheSoulReaver03 (14 Jun 2015)

Damn, stop comparing motorized vehicles to a bicycle.


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## TheSoulReaver03 (14 Jun 2015)

User said:


> Oh no, something else to worry about. How do I measure this?



It's easy. Just send me 600$ through my PayPal account and you'll know.


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## donnydave (14 Jun 2015)

TheSoulReaver03 said:


> Damn, stop comparing motorized vehicles to a bicycle.



you have an "engine" that works best at certain revs and a choice of gears, I think its relevant


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## TheSoulReaver03 (14 Jun 2015)

donnydave said:


> you have an "engine" that works best at certain revs and a choice of gears, I think its relevant



But those few seconds until you get up to speed don't really matter, except if you're in top gear.


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## donnydave (14 Jun 2015)

TheSoulReaver03 said:


> But those few seconds until you get up to speed don't really matter, except if you're in top gear.



On a bike I agree, often it doesn't really matter if you're just doing your own thing but often I'm in town or a situation where getting back up to speed makes life easier - mixing with traffic, turning out of junctions etc so I'd rather be in a gear that helps me up to speed quickly, and is easier on my knees - similar to the point about car engines labouring inefficiently at low revs.


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## Keith Oates (14 Jun 2015)

If the road is flat or has a small rise then I don't change down but I usually stand on the pedals when the lights turn to green to get up to speed quickly and it's good training for the legs IMO.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tanis8472 (14 Jun 2015)

Feastie said:


> I was actually taught in my driving test specifically not to do this - the engine will only stall if you come to almost a complete halt and then try to pull off, otherwise being at lower revs isn't a problem. According to my driving instructor, driving in a higher gear than the speed needs (e.g. 4th or 5th gear for 30mph) actually means the car uses less petrol because you're using less revs... thereby saving both money and the environment, hurrah. Also sparing the gears on the car.
> *Often when I'm slowing down to a junction I just disengage the gears completely and coast in on the clutch.*
> 
> Of course if you want to pull away, manoeuvre or suddenly accelerate you then have to change, but if you're just driving along normally and aren't intent on overtaking people, then that's how they teach it now... or at least when I did my test in 2009!



Modern electronic injection does not any fuel if foot is off the throttle and coasting in gear. 
You are using fuel when clutch is in as engine is running.


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## Feastie (14 Jun 2015)

Tanis8472 said:


> Modern electronic injection does not any fuel if foot is off the throttle and coasting in gear.
> You are using fuel when clutch is in as engine is running.



Yeah sorry didn't mean to imply I thought otherwise on that bit! Was a separate comment to what I'd said above, sorry for confusion.


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## Dan B (14 Jun 2015)

Tanis8472 said:


> Modern electronic injection does not any fuel if foot is off the throttle and coasting in gear.
> You are using fuel when clutch is in as engine is running.


If your foot is off the throttle and the clutch is in, why is the car giving you any more fuel than it would be if the gear was engaged?


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## raleighnut (14 Jun 2015)

Dan B said:


> If your foot is off the throttle and the clutch is in, why is the car giving you any more fuel than it would be if the gear was engaged?


Modern electronically triggered injectors shut down completely when you lift your foot off until the ECU detects that the revs have fallen to tickover then they start to supply fuel again, unlike older systems and carburettors.


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## Dan B (14 Jun 2015)

Thanks - so not to do with the clutch per se then, but engine speed.

Sound like block changing is more fuel efficient then in that case, as you spend more time in gear and less time cycling down through the gears with the wheels disengaged


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## mjr (14 Jun 2015)

Anyone else noticed that some modern car engines have very little inertia, so engine braking is ineffective. I wish they'd get on and equip more with regenerative braking!


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## donnydave (14 Jun 2015)

mjray said:


> Anyone else noticed that some modern car engines have very little inertia, so engine braking is ineffective. I wish they'd get on and equip more with regenerative braking!



Yep - our 20 year old car slows down more just by lifting off then some of the new cars I drive at work (hire cars) do with light braking. In fact in my other car (even more effective engine braking) I sometimes just lightly touch the brake pedal to show the brake lights even though I'm not actually using the brakes, just so it doesn't surprise people approaching from behind


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## gaz (14 Jun 2015)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpz_e5uwfM8


Of course, the right gear selection when stopping means you have the right gear to accelerate from. I'm usually in the small ring at the front and the second biggest at the back. Quick gear changes and you can accelerate away from the lights faster than pretty much all cyclists. In the above video I wasn't out of the saddle once.


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## Dan B (14 Jun 2015)

User said:


> How big is top gear, in this context?


Twice as tall as the distance from top to middle


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## Tynan (15 Jun 2015)

Yes, I don't enjoy trying to pull away in a gear that's comfortable at 17mph


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## Supersuperleeds (16 Jun 2015)

Tynan said:


> Yes, I don't enjoy trying to pull away in a gear that's comfortable at 17mph



The gears must be about the only things that work on your bike


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2015)

Forget to change down. Lift rear wheel off ground and flick the gears down a couple.


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## KneesUp (16 Jun 2015)

I don't often, and never really have. Perhaps a function of only riding bikes with bar end shifters or downtube shifters.


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## Exile (17 Jun 2015)

I'd say I do about 90% of the time, but often go too far so end up spinning a bit. The other 10% of the time I would like to be forget/am distracted/slammed on and end up in whatever gear I was cruising in. In fact, it's probably almost 20% of the time now. One disadvantage of having to use to motorcycle for a while is you become used to changing gears when stationary. You only try that once on the pedal bike before the gods-awful clunk reminds you not to be a fool. Until the red light five minutes later, at least.


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## Tynan (18 Jun 2015)

Supersuperleeds said:


> The gears must be about the only things that work on your bike


going to the LBS on Sat for new oilies, coaxing it along until then, dropping the chain 5-20 times in a n hour is testing my patience


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## ManiaMuse (19 Jun 2015)

Of course I do, otherwise what's the point in having gears? Usually down to the 2nd biggest cog on the back.

Only time I forget is if I have to stop suddenly for the lights for whatever reason or I'm being dozy, but sometimes I cheat and creep over the line to shift down a cog or two.


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## mjr (19 Jun 2015)

ManiaMuse said:


> Of course I do, otherwise what's the point in having gears?


Having gears that you can change without moving?


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## martint235 (19 Jun 2015)

Nearly always. Starting off gears are 4th and 5th largest on the back so if I'm in the 5th and it's a flat road I'll tend to leave it there. The cruising gears tend to be the 6th and 7th though so I'd 90% of the time I change,.


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