# Election - Is there a "Cyclists Vote"



## psmiffy (5 Apr 2015)

Ive cycled a lot in Europe during the lead up to the general elections in Holland, Germany and Denmark - A feature of their elections is the posters festooning the street furniture - approximately 75% of which seemed to show the candidate on/with their/a bicycle - plainly pandering to the Cyclists vote 

Apart from a short missive by the Greens - I have not seen much in the way of statements by any of the political parties

Is there a cyclists vote?


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## mjr (5 Apr 2015)

CycleNation are keeping rolling with space4cycling, CTC has vote bike, sustrans had some call to email candidates... not seen BC yet but they'll probably do something.

I'm not sure how much difference it'll make. Nationally, labour has made some muddled statements about transport, trying to be all things to all people, but the local candidate is often seen around on her Pashley. I've seen the Green comments already mentioned. Conservatives have a track record. I'm not sure whether UKIP have replaced their 2010 anti-cycling policies or not... anyone know? If not, if UKIP do well, then it probably means the cycling vote isn't that strong yet...


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## Drago (5 Apr 2015)

UKIP are making mixed noises with their cycling policies lurching from machine gunning cyclists in front of their children through to cuddling.cyclists.at.every.junction, depending on who's do I g the asking and w/o a being interrogated. That's the problem with having barely any policies, and not enforcing them strictly, then not educating the party elite as to what today's policies actually are.

The Greens can promise what they want, they couldn't do a paper round and make a profit.

The rest of them? Well, who cares?

Whatever happens, as a user group were still going to be largely on our own.


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## downfader (5 Apr 2015)

Drago said:


> UKIP are making mixed noises with their cycling policies lurching from machine gunning cyclists in front of their children through to cuddling.cyclists.at.every.junction, depending on who's do I g the asking and w/o a being interrogated. That's the problem with having barely any policies, and not enforcing them strictly, then not educating the party elite as to what today's policies actually are.
> 
> The Greens can promise what they want, they couldn't do a paper round and make a profit.
> 
> ...


I think people misunderstand the Greens and Labours capacity for change. For a start the Greens have attracted a LOT of good people to the party in the past year, some with experience from other parties or as independents. Labour have come full circle back to some of the vales they should have been using when in power last. That doesnt mean the Greens can actively challenge a party like Labour, but they can certainly challenge UKIP as they have policies and ideas. UKIP just seem to want to react in horror at everything.

Back to the OP....I dont think there IS a cyclist's vote so to speak. Not in Britain. Only in London do riders seem to be organised and active politically, partially due to the much higher than average number. If cyclists want things to change they have to do a lot more personally rather than relying on the cycle groups or a few seasoned campaigners. 

Having said that seeing a UK politician on a bike is a bit "kiss the baby" for the modern generation. It means nothing. Its just a photo opportunity


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Apr 2015)

psmiffy said:


> Ive cycled a lot in Europe during the lead up to the general elections in Holland, Germany and Denmark - A feature of their elections is the posters festooning the street furniture - *approximately 75% of which seemed to show the candidate on/with their/a bicycle - plainly pandering to the Cyclists vote *
> 
> Apart from a short missive by the Greens - I have not seen much in the way of statements by any of the political parties
> 
> Is there a cyclists vote?


Not at all. Cycling in at least two of those countries is normal, so in showing them with their bikes their media people are making the point that "they are just like you"

as to a cyclists vote; it always surprises me that some of those who are so very, very vocal about separate/segregated infrastructure for cyclists are so unwilling to stand for office, locally or nationally. It is almost as if they realise they would never get elected, even if the electorate were all cyclists!


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## buggi (5 Apr 2015)

British Cycling are currently in touch with all parties to ensure provision for cyclists in their next manifesto (see their #choosecycling campaign). I would envisage the only party that won't be on quite so on board is UKIP??


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Apr 2015)

blatant plug, from our local manifesto...

Your LIB DEM Councillors will

Work for better transport, pedestrian and cycling routes, helping to encourage everyone to reduce their reliance on cars.


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## downfader (5 Apr 2015)

GrumpyGregry said:


> blatant plug, from our local manifesto...
> 
> Your LIB DEM Councillors will
> 
> Work for better transport, pedestrian and cycling routes, helping to encourage everyone to reduce their reliance on cars.



18 words.

Similar to the 30 written in the Labour manifesto.


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## Dan B (5 Apr 2015)

Unless they're promising money, their promises are worthless.

That said, even if they're promising money, it doesn't follow that they'll actually make good on it


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## CopperCyclist (5 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> Unless they're promising money, their promises are worthless.



With UK politics, I'd say their promises are worthless full stop as there is nothing to enforce them keeping them!


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Apr 2015)

downfader said:


> 18 words.
> 
> Similar to the 30 written in the Labour manifesto.


Yep. That's rather how manifestos work. Public declarations of intent. 

You want lots of words, you'd be looking for a policy. Ours has thousands of words in it.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> Unless they're promising money, their promises are worthless.
> 
> That said, even if they're promising money, it doesn't follow that they'll actually make good on it


Under the current govt cycling in these parts has been awash with money via LSTF et al. The trouble with having the money is the nobbers at County and District, all 4WD & Jag driving types to a man and woman, who spend it haven't a clue about what cyclists want, and even if their officers deigned to consult cyclists originally in order to construct the bid to get the funds from central government they then change the plan between winning bid and implementation, and tell no one, and thus go on to deliver useless outcomes. Or spend the money on what is essentially roads maintenance.


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## downfader (5 Apr 2015)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Under the current govt cycling in these parts has been awash with money via LSTF et al. The trouble with having the money is the nobbers at County and District, all 4WD & Jag driving types to a man and woman, who spend it haven't a clue about what cyclists want, and even if their officers deigned to consult cyclists originally in order to construct the bid to get the funds from central government they then change the plan between winning bid and implementation, and tell no one, and thus go on to deliver useless outcomes. Or spend the money on what is essentially roads maintenance.


Or more to the point havent a clue what non-cyclists NEED to become attracted to cycling as a mode of transport or even for fitness purposes


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## Markymark (5 Apr 2015)

I have more pressing concerns in terms of nhs, schools, business etc than what the parties offer me as a cyclist.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Apr 2015)

downfader said:


> Or more to the point havent a clue what non-cyclists NEED to become attracted to cycling as a mode of transport or even for fitness purposes


They know the answer to those questions. They just aren't interested in providing them. They 'know' locally that cyclists don't, generally, vote Tory.


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## Tin Pot (5 Apr 2015)

It's not all party.

Ask your candidates.

And vote for the one you feel represents you best.


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## classic33 (6 Apr 2015)

National Election, cycling hating MP has been made stand down.
Local Election, council were only interested last year, prior to the Tour coming through. Once gone, so was any interest in cycling by any party.


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## slowmotion (6 Apr 2015)

GrumpyGregry said:


> They know the answer to those questions. They just aren't interested in providing them. They 'know' locally that cyclists don't, generally, vote Tory.


How about Boris? Does anybody else do anything useful for cyclists?


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## Drago (6 Apr 2015)

I fully understand that no one in the Greens has passed O level maths.

I fully understand that Labour, like their main rivals, do the lie or.mislead about their taxation plans, and start illegal wars, and its going to take this generation a long time to forget both.

In either case they in still zero confidence of anything meaningful for cyclists, unless you count the hollow and insincere platitudes that both are wont to churn out. They're politicians, which means by default they'd unfit to be involved in the running of a country. As a user group were.steadfastly alone, and there's no prospect on the horizon of that changing.


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## Hitchington (6 Apr 2015)

UKIPs hate cyclists. That's all you need to know.


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## Markymark (6 Apr 2015)

Hitchington said:


> UKIPs hate cyclists. That's all you need to know.


That and they're a bunch of f*ckwits.


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## downfader (6 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> The city of Brighton and Hove (a Green MP and many Green councillors) has had quite a lot of cycling infrastructure built recently, as well as things like shared spaces, wider pavements, rebuilding of a lethal roundabout to slow traffic down (Seven Dials), and removing unnecessary pedestrian-herding railings and replacing them with more cycle parking. OK, not everyone agrees that segregated cycleways are a good thing, but I hear a lot of people who are timid about cycling in traffic saying how much they like the new arrangements.


Heard the same about Old Shoreham road allowing kids to ride to school


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## glenn forger (6 Apr 2015)

Hitchington said:


> UKIPs hate cyclists. That's all you need to know.









"I fail to see why the general public should pay for cyclists' safety when regardless of sidebars, a cyclist is still going to come off worse and they are not made to take responsibility for their own safety. They should be trained, tested, plated and insured BEFORE hauliers and ultimately the general public end up paying for what is essentially, someone else's hobby. It is disgusting." 

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._Leyton_and_Wanstead/?action=success#comments


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## winjim (6 Apr 2015)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Or spend the money on what is essentially roads maintenance.


That is the single best thing the government could do to improve my experience as a cyclist.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> I can't help feeling that cycling wouldn't automatically be seen by some people as 'a hobby' if there were less emphasis on wearing the right lycra+helmet uniform and riding the right carbon bike, and more acceptance of cycling as a cheap, inclusive and environmentally friendly form of transport (as in, e.g., Holland). Sorry if that sounds a little like 'we brought it on ourselves', but ... maybe some of us did a bit?


I think you are spot on.

Yet if I said my hobby was driving and I drove every day, to and from work, folk would think I was slightly bonkers.


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## Paul Bonsor (6 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> And similarly, over in Monsieur's thread in General Cycling, 'Society doesn't need cyclists' - apparently walking is essential to society but 'road cycling' (with all its stereotypes listed) is not. Is Keith Peat a UKIP candidate too?


He isn't a UKIP candidate but he does support them, he also has an climate change denying website


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## downfader (6 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> "I fail to see why the general public should pay for cyclists' safety when regardless of sidebars, a cyclist is still going to come off worse and they are not made to take responsibility for their own safety. They should be trained, tested, plated and insured BEFORE hauliers and ultimately the general public end up paying for what is essentially, someone else's hobby. It is disgusting."
> 
> http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._Leyton_and_Wanstead/?action=success#comments


She seems too stupid and ignorant to realise that most of those killed by lorries were not the "Bradley Wiggins" types


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## Bollo (6 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


>


She brings new meaning to the phrase "fringe party"


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## jarlrmai (8 Apr 2015)

Here's a UKIP leaflet

http://i.imgur.com/ejjlFWy.jpg


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## psmiffy (8 Apr 2015)

jarlrmai said:


> Here's a UKIP leaflet
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/ejjlFWy.jpg



No evidence there that they are pandering to the cyclists vote


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## Drago (8 Apr 2015)

Don't click that link. Take it from me, once read it can't be unread!


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## Markymark (8 Apr 2015)

She would be my mp.


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## downfader (8 Apr 2015)

jarlrmai said:


> Here's a UKIP leaflet
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/ejjlFWy.jpg



"Just because they receive a Government grant doesnt mean they have to spend it."

Err yes, they're obligated otherwise they have to hand it back. See the fiasco in the New Forest last year. What a bunch of morons


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## Dan B (9 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> I can't help feeling that cycling wouldn't automatically be seen by some people as 'a hobby' if there were less emphasis on wearing the right lycra+helmet uniform and riding the right carbon bike, and more acceptance of cycling as a cheap, inclusive and environmentally friendly form of transport (as in, e.g., Holland). Sorry if that sounds a little like 'we brought it on ourselves', but ... maybe some of us did a bit?


While I think I see your point, a bit, I remain cautious about any tendency to blame cyclists for their own misfortune on the basis of what they're wearing. Also, "vehicular cycling" - which is in many places still the only kind of cycling which is currently practical - is a whole lot easier when the cyclist is moving at vehicular speeds.

But I think Boris bikes and the like are probably a move in the right direction for making cycling look normal anyway


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## crazyjoe101 (13 Apr 2015)

User13710 said:


> I can't help feeling that cycling wouldn't automatically be seen by some people as 'a hobby' if there were less emphasis on wearing the right lycra+helmet uniform and riding the right carbon bike, and more acceptance of cycling as a cheap, inclusive and environmentally friendly form of transport (as in, e.g., Holland). Sorry if that sounds a little like 'we brought it on ourselves', but ... maybe some of us did a bit?



If I was walking 10 miles into work I would not do it in suit shoes, similarly, If I was riding 10 miles into work I would not wear my work clothes or even normal sports clothes because I do not find them particularly comfortable over much distance at speed on a bike.

In short, if I am riding my bike for anything much more than a spin Dutch style to the shops then I will be in lycra etc. because it is more comfortable. That said, I do see where you're coming from, although if anything I have more 'issues' with motorists when bimbling about Dutch style in normal clothes than when I'm kitted up and bombing it, probably because I'm so much slower. 

Back to the OT though, I don't think there is a cyclist's vote. Anyway, for me cycling represents a consideration in a larger process of deciding where to place my vote, not the primary factor.


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## mjr (13 Apr 2015)

If your bike isn't comfortable to ride in ordinary clothes for distance, it's probably the cycling equivalent of






I know I joke that Specialized is the boring equivalent of Ford cars, but the real equivalent, the sturdy family bike, is disappointingly rare on our streets. Imagine if motoring transport policy was dominated by open top sports cars drivers and the politicians mostly thought of sports cars but had as little experience of using them as they currently do. It complicates things.


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## Dan B (13 Apr 2015)

If I had to commute to work on the "sturdy family bike" it'd be almost as boring as taking the bus, and without even the attraction of being able to read a book on the journey


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## snorri (13 Apr 2015)

[QUOTE 3641458, member: 9609"]I have a major dilemma with my vote, he is a very keen cyclist and has spoken up for cyclists on many an occasion - but he's a Conservative....[/QUOTE]
It's not really such a dilemma, Transport being a devolved issue our MPs have minimal say on cycling policy in Scotland anyway,
Unless you are one of those who support the controversial view that Scottish MPs should vote on rUK issues..


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## mjr (13 Apr 2015)

Dan B said:


> If I had to commute to work on the "sturdy family bike" it'd be almost as boring as taking the bus, and without even the attraction of being able to read a book on the journey


I think you may have forgotten how boring taking the bus is. Riding a city bike is still riding and still feels marvellous. You won't get the sportstyle rush of speed, but the rest is all still good.


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## crazyjoe101 (13 Apr 2015)

mjray said:


> If your bike isn't comfortable to ride in ordinary clothes for distance, it's probably the cycling equivalent of
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are entirely correct! I do have a 20 to 30 year old Raleigh rigid which I occasionally use when I can't be bothered locking up the good one but I just prefer my road bike, and if I'm going far it's going to be in the right equipment.

I do see the sentiment behind your argument but I don't think the majority of the non-cycling public view cycling solely as a sport, do they look at people weaving through rush hour traffic in cities and relate them to the MAMIL?


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## jarlrmai (13 Apr 2015)

They take whatever view of cyclist supports whatever point they are trying to make at the time.

Cyclist has accident, probably a lycra clad wanna be Bradley Wiggins lout on a "30mph Bike" going too fast.
Stuck in a traffic jams, probably caused by cyclists, they can only go 5 mph and hold everyone up.


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## mjr (13 Apr 2015)

crazyjoe101 said:


> I do see the sentiment behind your argument but I don't think the majority of the non-cycling public view cycling solely as a sport, do they look at people weaving through rush hour traffic in cities and relate them to the MAMIL?


I'm not sure, but I have felt it's a problem among councillors and council officers, with some crud-for-cycling designs excused with a daft claim like that most adult cyclists are sports ones who will use roads no matter how hostile they are so the design only needs to cater to 8-year-olds who like a challenge (when it would be better to design the cycle routes to be attractive for all).

I did a web search and of the first 15 results, 7 feel like transport cycling http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/ http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/info/20020/cycling http://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-travel-and-roads/cycling/ http://www.southampton.gov.uk/roads-parking/travel/cycling.aspx http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/parking-and-travel/travel-transport-and-road-safety/cycling https://www.stockton.gov.uk/arts-culture-and-leisure/cycling-and-walking/cycling-in-the-borough/ https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/cycling/cycling-in-thurrock and 6 feel more sports cycling http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/rte.aspx?id=475 http://www.solihull.gov.uk/cycling http://www.elmbridge.gov.uk/leisure/sports/cycling.htm http://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure-and-community/parks-and-outdoor-activities/cycling http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/leisure/outdoorleisurefacilities/cycling.aspx http://www.westlancs.gov.uk/more/your-community/roads-and-travel/cycling.aspx while 1 just seemed too rubbish to tell https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/public-site/cycling and one was a PDF from the Forestry Commission which didn't seem fair to include (of course it's sports).

So I think there's a bit of a challenge and it could be helped if we elect some ordinary people who ride bikes.


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## snorri (13 Apr 2015)

mjray said:


> I'm not sure, but I have felt it's a problem among councillors and council officers, with some crud-for-cycling designs excused with a daft claim like that most adult cyclists are sports ones.


I think you're right, after commenting to an official regarding the numerous short comings and hazards on a 2 mile stretch of joint user path, the official boasted that he was not a cyclist but had managed to cycle the length of the path unscathed, therefore it would have presented no problems for anyone who claimed to be a cyclist and that would be the end of any discussion re path improvement .


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## Dan B (17 Apr 2015)

jarlrmai said:


> Stuck in a traffic jams, probably caused by cyclists, they can only go 5 mph and hold everyone up.


while going through red lights and riding on the pavement. At the same time


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## mjr (17 Apr 2015)

Right. I think our group can't run an organised LCC-style structured candidate-lobbying campaign on top of everything else we're trying to do (with some members involved in the election campaign for various parties), so I'm asking our more social-network-y helpers to ask any council candidates they find to post their views on cycling to our web page or facebook page and leaving the MP candidates to CTC's www.voteBike.org.uk site. Then we'll try to keep track of who says what, let local bike users know their candidates' views before polling day and see who gets elected.

Are there other things you think we could try? Ideally with a very good bang-per-buck, so we still have time to ride bikes occasionally!


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## mjr (20 May 2016)

(time passed)

Tomorrow, some of us are meeting to start work on the space4cycling campaign for the 2017 elections (which means county councils for me - other areas may have other elections). I've plenty of thoughts but are there any comments you'd like me to take along? What did you like about past editions and what would you like changed? Would you be willing to support this sort of campaign and ideally how?


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## derrick (20 May 2016)

CopperCyclist said:


> With UK politics, I'd say their promises are worthless full stop as there is nothing to enforce them keeping them!


You hit the nail on the head with that.


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