# "cyclists stay back" stickers, tfl



## mustang1 (3 Jun 2014)

The comments section shows many cyclists are upset with these stickers. Looks like I'm different and don't see the problem, at least its never bothered me. What do these commenters want? Instead of "cyclists stay back" it seems they want "dear cyclists, please stay away from this large vehicle if at all possible and if you are unable to, please take extreme caution and pass as safely as you can". 

By the time I've finished reading that, it'll... Anyway.

I saw another post here from a couple of months back and someone suggested just having "CYCLISTS PASS WIDE" which seems fine to me, but wouldn't be surprised if many are offended by that too.

http://road.cc/content/news/120553-new-low-tfl-refuses-order-removal-cyclists-stay-back-stickers


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## ianrauk (3 Jun 2014)

The stickers are fine imo. Tells me to stay back from the vehicle of which I would be more then happy to do. However there are far more sensitive needy souls on bikes out there who need their hands holding.


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## gaz (3 Jun 2014)

ianrauk said:


> The stickers are fine imo. Tells me to stay back from the vehicle of which I would be more then happy to do. However there are far more sensitive needy souls on bikes out there who need their hands holding.


You might even say that they need their punctures changed for them  

I'll get my coat.


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## BSRU (3 Jun 2014)

I thought the problem was "I'm a moron" had been missed from the stickers


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## summerdays (3 Jun 2014)

From what I've seen on twitter it is partly the way it is phased (devolving the responsibility onto cyclists wholly) but also the way that they are being used indiscriminately on any vehicle.


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## summerdays (3 Jun 2014)

The news item that has just been on the TV news is that the on road tests for the bus Cycle Eye, are going on the Bristol roads starting today. I think it is better than using the sticker.

http://road.cc/content/news/109960-cycle-eye-bike-detection-system-be-trialled-bristol-buses


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## fimm (3 Jun 2014)

The problem is that they are being put on cars and vans where there isn't a problem in the way there is with big trucks.
http://rdrf.org.uk/2014/05/30/transport-for-london-show-contempt-for-danger-reduction-and-cycling/
See especially the last photo in that link.


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## ianrauk (3 Jun 2014)

The amount of divvy non thinking cyclists I see on my commute in London, the last picture is what is needed.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (3 Jun 2014)

It is more annoying when vehicles with cyclist warning stickers (in general, not tfl) hurtle past inches away. I assume that the close pass would then be okay because there was a sticker warning me to keep away

Also that in the event of a collision, injury or fatality, the presence of the sticker could indeed serve to reduce culpability as it would be "part of a responsible scheme" etc etc..


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## glenn forger (3 Jun 2014)

Agreed, it's a built-in alibi, I've seen a clip of an HGV driver left hook a cyclist, then get out of the truck and berate the cyclist "I've got stickers!"


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## glenn forger (3 Jun 2014)

_However an inquest has been told that a deceased cyclist had failed to observe a “cyclists stay back” sticker, as if that somehow meant they were at fault._

anyone know that case?


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## glenn forger (3 Jun 2014)

wtf?


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## ianrauk (3 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


> wtf?




As I posted previously, seeing some of the cyclists on my London commute, they need it spelling out to them.


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## derrick (3 Jun 2014)

That sign means be careful i don't use my mirrors.


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Jun 2014)

I spotted one in Glasgow a few days ago:




Given the poor attitude by some commercial drivers, it wouldn't surprise me if they thought slapping this sticker on absolved them of any duty of care towards cyclists.


GC


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


> _However an inquest has been told that a deceased cyclist had failed to observe a “cyclists stay back” sticker, as if that somehow meant they were at fault._
> 
> anyone know that case?


 
It's not explicitly said here but possibly this case where reference is made to the sticker's presence.


GC


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## Markymark (3 Jun 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It's not explicitly said here but possibly this case where reference is made to the sticker's presence.


The bits from the inquest in quotes don't seem to mention the sticker, that's the journalist. The bits in quotes talks about the cyclist 'most likely' jumpng the red light which contributed to the death.


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## glenn forger (3 Jun 2014)

Found it:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRtsDEPwHDo


Cyclists in the asl, driver left hooks, gets out and says "I've got stickers!"

Dumbass driver doesn't even know what an asl is.


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> The bits from the inquest in quotes don't seem to mention the sticker, that's the journalist. The bits in quotes talks about the cyclist 'most likely' jumpng the red light which contributed to the death.


 
There's the bit near the end which attributes statements to the HGV driver, Mark Stoker:

_He told the inquest: “I was three-quarters of the way round and then I just heard a metal noise and stopped straight away and realised what had happened.”
The vehicle was fitted with sensors to detect cyclists alongside, had an audible warning telling road users when it is turning left, and was fitted with warning stickers telling cyclists to stay back, he said._​It may not be the relevant case at all though.

GC


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## jarlrmai (3 Jun 2014)

To be fair we dont see the left hook, its possible in that SOTW video that the cyclists undertake the wagon as the lights change.


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## glenn forger (3 Jun 2014)

yeah, well said beano:

Cyclist "We were in the bike box!"

Neanderthal: "The what?"


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## Cycling Dan (3 Jun 2014)

Cyclists should create their own like
May use centre of lane, calm your tits.


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## Smurfy (4 Jun 2014)

As it's written it looks like a combination of pre-emptive victim blaming, and an attempt at a get-out-of-jail-free card for irresponsible and incompetent drivers. If TfL can't see that then they need to employ some more capable and cycling-aware staff.


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## Mugshot (4 Jun 2014)

Cycling Dan said:


> clam your tits.


Something like this?


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## Cycling Dan (4 Jun 2014)

Mugshot said:


> Something like this?
> View attachment 46822


Dam auto correct


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## Hip Priest (4 Jun 2014)

Saw my first one on the back of a DHL lorry this morning. I did stay back and he did turn left.


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## Ganymede (4 Jun 2014)

Hip Priest said:


> Saw my first one on the back of a DHL lorry this morning. I did stay back and he did turn left.


Was he signalling?


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## jarlrmai (4 Jun 2014)

Stickers save on replacing indicator bulbs.


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## Hip Priest (4 Jun 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Was he signalling?



Yes. I would've stayed back anyway. I never filter up the inside of lorries.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (4 Jun 2014)

I want a jersey that has "Cars Stay Back" on it.


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## Hip Priest (4 Jun 2014)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> I want a jersey that has "Cars Stay Back" on it.



There is a courier in London who has "f--- taxis" on his calves.


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## Cycling Dan (8 Jun 2014)




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## slowmotion (9 Jun 2014)

" Cyclists! I've got a sticker, innit"????


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## glenn forger (9 Jun 2014)




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## w00hoo_kent (9 Jun 2014)

I'm afraid I'm in the 'annoyed by them group'. I see them on lorries I'm going to be ridiculously careful around anyway, buses I'm unlikely to filter up the inside of and vans. OK, on the big lorries they might be useful to cyclists who need hitting with the clue bat, but most of them seem to be riding in their own world anyway and are unlikely to see/read the sign in the first place. On vans it's pretty much a license to drive like even more of an idiot. I guess you could put a positive spin on them and say they are like Baby on Board signs, which are best translated as 'warning, I'm going to be concentrating on the small child who might be in the car and not the outside world'. It does make me happy when I'm cut up by a van that hasn't got the sticker on, because at least they're not being a hypocrite about it :-) .


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## Cyclist33 (9 Jun 2014)

w00hoo said:


> I'm afraid I'm in the 'annoyed by them group'. I see them on lorries I'm going to be ridiculously careful around anyway, buses I'm unlikely to filter up the inside of and vans. OK, on the big lorries they might be useful to cyclists who need hitting with the clue bat, but most of them seem to be riding in their own world anyway and are unlikely to see/read the sign in the first place. On vans it's pretty much a license to drive like even more of an idiot. I guess you could put a positive spin on them and say they are like Baby on Board signs, which are best translated as 'warning, I'm going to be concentrating on the small child who might be in the car and not the outside world'. It does make me happy when I'm cut up by a van that hasn't got the sticker on, because at least they're not being a hypocrite about it :-) .



"Baby on Board" signs are one of my pet hates. I view them as just another grotesque status symbol - cum - desperate lunge for self-validation on the part of modern parents.

By what logic or moral imperative does having a child or not have any influence on whether or not one should consider whether or not to crash into someone's car?


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jun 2014)

User13710 said:


> I saw a van with a "Show fish on board" sign once


 
Must be fun trying to pin the rosettes on.

GC


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## Markymark (9 Jun 2014)

Cyclist33 said:


> "Baby on Board" signs are one of my pet hates. I view them as just another grotesque status symbol - cum - desperate lunge for self-validation on the part of modern parents.
> 
> By what logic or moral imperative does having a child or not have any influence on whether or not one should consider whether or not to crash into someone's car?


It USED to be for medical services in event of a crash to know that there was potentially a little person on board. The driver was supposed to only have it in when young kids/babies were on board and remove when not.

Then it all changed...


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> It USED to be for medical services in event of a crash to know that there was potentially a little person on board. The driver was supposed to only have it in when young kids/babies were on board and remove when not.
> 
> Then it all changed...


 
I think that was a load of bollox debunked by snopes years ago.

GC


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## glenn forger (9 Jun 2014)

"We've been to hospital!"


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## Markymark (9 Jun 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I think that was a load of bollox debunked by snopes years ago.
> 
> GC


Just been googling and fond the snopes page. All it does is debunk the US person's reason for starting it. It doesn;t debunk the idea that it alerts (or at least used ) the emergency services.


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Just been googling and fond the snopes page. All it does is debunk the US person's reason for starting it. It doesn;t debunk the idea that it alerts (or at least used ) the emergency services.


 
There's no source I can find to support the notion that emergency services have ever placed any reliance on this notice to determine the occupants of a crashed vehicle.
The notice may be present on a car with no child in it, or may be absent in a car that does have a child in it. It's meaningless.
GC


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## Markymark (9 Jun 2014)

I argree it's meaningless. That was, I believe the original intention from probably well meaning but incorrect parents and not the emergency services.


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## DCLane (9 Jun 2014)

I'm afraid if there was one of those on a van near me it would be ... erm ... vandalised.

'Cyclists Stay Back' would quickly become "[insert company name] Hates Cyclists".

In fact, thinking about it - a can of yellow paint could do the job in a traffic light change.


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## w00hoo_kent (9 Jun 2014)

It's nicer than 'driver a twat' which was what the sticker I'd want to add to it would say...


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## Mr Haematocrit (10 Jun 2014)

People who need a sticker to be told to keep away from trucks are the same people who need stickers on chainsaws to stop them from putting fingers in it


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## Ganymede (11 Jun 2014)

I was driving in Birmingham today (first time I'd ever driven there) and saw great notices on the back of the buses, basically saying "drivers watch out for cyclists" (snappier than that but I was concentrating on the road!). That's more like it, no?


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## Nigel-YZ1 (13 Jun 2014)

I saw a Ford Ka last night with a "This vehicle may turn left" sticker on it (took up most of the bootlid actually).
I'm tempted to get some stickers made up saying: "Because no farking way will I be indicating!" to put below it.


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## uclown2002 (13 Jun 2014)

I don't see what the big deal is here.
If it saves one naive, inexperienced rider form being squished then perhaps it has paid off.
I've got greater things to be concerned about.


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## Ganymede (13 Jun 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> I don't see what the big deal is here.
> If it saves one naive, inexperienced rider form being squished then perhaps it has paid off.
> I've got greater things to be concerned about.


But if it makes one naive, inexperienced motorist think that this is a valid instruction to be placed on small vans because cyclists should never overtake OR undertake anyone and are always responsible for anything that happens to them, then perhaps it has paid off in a completely different and unacceptable way...


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## jarlrmai (13 Jun 2014)

Needs a picture of Gaz with a speech bubble saying "Do't go up there"

I do feel they are getting placed on some vehicles as an insurance policy, almost as if it's something else to be brought up in court, well he wasn't wearing high viz, or a helmet_ and_ I had a sticker.


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## martinclive (13 Jun 2014)

They have arrived in Cambridge - we are definitely going to have to get some 'Motorists Stay back' jerseys........................


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## uclown2002 (13 Jun 2014)

User said:


> And how will you feel when someone you know is left hooked by a vehicle displaying the sticker and a court concludes that they were responsible because they failed to heed a fair warning that they hadn't even had time to see?


I don't believe for one minute that the level of responsibility is affected by the display of that sticker.


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## glenn forger (13 Jun 2014)

To my knowledge there have been three incidents other that the youtube clip I posted of cyclists who have done nothing wrong being admonished by drivers for "missing the sticker". The implication of the sticker is that any cyclist injured while filtering is at fault. This is not the case. Injudicious filtering is not a significant causal factor, usually the driver just failed to look properly, these stupid little stickers are an alibi for terrible drivers.


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## uclown2002 (13 Jun 2014)

Ganymede said:


> But if it makes one naive, inexperienced motorist think that this is a valid instruction to be placed on small vans because cyclists should never overtake OR undertake anyone and are always responsible for anything that happens to them, then perhaps it has paid off in a completely different and unacceptable way...


That seems a huge leap. The sticker may have limited value but surely it has been put there in good faith to reduce the possibility of an accident between vehicle and bike. 
It's hardly likely to increase the possibility of an accident is it!


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## w00hoo_kent (13 Jun 2014)

(Makes more sense with the quote)
> I don't believe for one minute that the level of responsibility is affected by the display of that sticker.

In the drivers head? Or in the mind of a chancer defending their actions in court?

If it was about effectively warning cyclists, wouldn't tfl be making sure the signs weren't put on what are basically every day cars?

There's already anecdotal evidence of drivers believing the sticker gives them extra rights.

I would be stunned if the stickers weren't used in an attempt to justify actions and paint the cyclist in a bad light, and it's only a matter of time before they become a news byline on how irresponsible cyclists are.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Jun 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> That seems a huge leap. The sticker may have limited value but surely it has been put there in good faith to reduce the possibility of an accident between vehicle and bike.
> It's hardly likely to increase the possibility of an accident is it!


 
I suppose that depends on how the driver whose vehicle is displaying it acts around cyclists.


GC


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## Ganymede (13 Jun 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> put there in good faith



I think it's bandwagon-jumping by drivers who either a) (charitably) haven't really thought it through but want to do the right thing or b) want to make sure those cyclists know, er, this, right, because... well.. cycling's dangerous, right, and, and, they all go through red lights and don't pay road tax, and, and, I would cycle myself if it weren't for all the cars but, you know, I can't be held responsible if people choose to put themselves in danger, I mean, I don't want to cause an accident and I don't understand all the isshoos but, right, this sticker is being promoted by tfl etc etc so they must know so I should have one on my very small van.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Jun 2014)

After the annoying wheelsucker I had on the ride home last night, I'm thinking of putting one on the back of my shorts.

GC


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## thefatcyclist (13 Jun 2014)

I have quite happily gone up the inside of lorries, busses, vans for the past 20 years in London and for 15 years previously in the North East without incident and will continue to do so on the proviso that I feel it is ok i.e.. I have seen the light turn red and I know I have plenty of time to get to the front of the queue or there is no left turn junction coming up, parking space etc. It is still according to the highway code rule 182 the responsibility of the person turning to check their mirrors to ensure it is clear to do so a sticker on your vehicle does not negate this.


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## Origamist (13 Jun 2014)

uclown2002 said:


> I don't see what the big deal is here.
> *If it saves one naive, inexperienced rider form being squished then perhaps it has paid off.*
> I've got greater things to be concerned about.


 
If we accept that argument, you might as well put dozens of stickers all over vehicles:

"Stop tail-gating"
"Stop speeding"
"Don't overtake on a blind bend"

The message of these stickers is too simplistic.


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## Learnincurve (13 Jun 2014)

HGVs you can see the point if the driver genuinely does have a blind spot, but as for normal cars I think they are insulting, but a good thing because it makes bad drivers who don't check behind them, give cyclists enough space or fail to indicate when they turn much easier to identify.


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## wilkotom (18 Jun 2014)

I saw a lorry this morning with a version I hadn't seen before. The wording was "Cyclists: Overtake, Don't Undertake" with "Driver may not see you" in smaller text beneath. Much better than the usual cyclists stay back nonsense and only marginally harder to read (if at all), and no implication that cyclists shouldn't pass at all...


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## Markymark (18 Jun 2014)

Maybe on my London commute I should have a sticker that says "Cars, don't overtake, I'm quicker than you anyway"


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## martinclive (18 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Maybe on my London commute I should have a sticker that says "Cars, don't overtake, I'm quicker than you anyway"


Most of Cambridge is going 20mph - so true here as well (sometimes!)


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## uclown2002 (18 Jun 2014)

wilkotom said:


> I saw a lorry this morning with a version I hadn't seen before. The wording was "Cyclists: Overtake, Don't Undertake" with "Driver may not see you" in smaller text beneath. Much better than the usual cyclists stay back nonsense and only marginally harder to read (if at all), and no implication that cyclists shouldn't pass at all...


Indeed, and yet someone will be along soon to tell us they find it unnecessary and borderline offensive..


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## Markymark (18 Jun 2014)

FFS Its not that it's offensive, its when its used as an excuse to endanger cyclists through the other driver's inability to drive around us.

As in, driver turns left, not bothering to look if there's anyone in the cycle lane he's crossing, as, you know, he has a sticker telling us not to be there....even though he may have overtaken and left-hooked the cyclist on the first place.


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## glenn forger (18 Jun 2014)




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## jarlrmai (18 Jun 2014)

Gotta say these stickers are more and more looking like some sort of get out clause if you left hook/ left door a cyclists, filtering or not.


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## Origamist (18 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


 
We need another sticker: "Drivers - Stay Out of ASL Zones"


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## gambatte (18 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


“Beware of passing this vehicle on this side. The driver is that ignorant of cyclists they park over the advance stop lines”


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## jefmcg (18 Jun 2014)

There's another completely different factor here. It completely devalues that sticker. As I cyclist, it reminds me to treat vehicles with this sticker with some respect; that the vehicle had a larger turning circle, or blind spots or whatever. If the sticker is put on every type of vehicle, then it has no value at all. Cyclists who aren't aware which vehicles need to be treated with extra respect, will not learn it on the road - except the hard way.


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## benb (18 Jun 2014)

If the stickers were only on large vehicles then that's one thing. (although I'd prefer they were worded more like "Cyclists: *Blind Spots.* avoid passing this vehicle on the left")

But as others have said, they are sprouting up on all kinds of vehicles where they shouldn't be, and they are now starting to be used as an excuse to avoid having to use proper observation.


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## summerdays (18 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


>


You see the sticker on that one is good, as you can see it's highlighting that his skills are a little deficient so you should stay back and give him a wide birth (since he can't manage to stop before the line!).

Edit: I see everyone has already said this, that will teach me not to read to the end before replying!


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## theclaud (18 Jun 2014)

How about "Vehicle and/or driver unfit to share road. Please indulge."?


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## David Higson (19 Jun 2014)

I think they're supposed to be stuck where it is difficult for drivers of large vehicles to get a clear view - such as close up to a HGV. However, I've not seen them on smaller vehicles. Maybe its a throwback to the trend in putting "Short Vehicle" stickers on the back of a Mini when the "Long Vehicle" plates became mandatory. Personally, I'm not offended. I've seen more offensive junk stuck on the rear of motor vehicles.


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## Ganymede (19 Jun 2014)

David Higson said:


> I think they're supposed to be stuck where it is difficult for drivers of large vehicles to get a clear view - such as close up to a HGV. However, I've not seen them on smaller vehicles. Maybe its a throwback to the trend in putting "Short Vehicle" stickers on the back of a Mini when the "Long Vehicle" plates became mandatory. Personally, I'm not offended. I've seen more offensive junk stuck on the rear of motor vehicles.


I'm not "offended". That would be meaningless.

I think it could cause complacency, accidents and victim-blaming.


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## benb (19 Jun 2014)

Ganymede said:


> I'm not "offended". That would be meaningless.
> 
> I think it could cause complacency, accidents and victim-blaming.



And already has.


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## Crankarm (19 Jun 2014)

Put one on the back of the bike on the rack or attached to the seat post as a trophy and pi$$ take or, or, even get a jersey made with the TfL sign "Cyclist stay back!" on the back .


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## glenn forger (21 Jun 2014)

http://jrwcommercials.co.uk/


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## Ganymede (21 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


> http://jrwcommercials.co.uk/


Oh god.


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## summerdays (21 Jun 2014)

glenn forger said:


> http://jrwcommercials.co.uk/


I like that one in some ways ... It's honest! After all it's what the other ones are thinking!!


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## Markymark (21 Jun 2014)

I think it's quite funny.


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## Ganymede (21 Jun 2014)

summerdays said:


> I like that one in some ways ... It's honest! After all it's what the other ones are thinking!!


You have a point there...


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## jarlrmai (23 Jun 2014)

Be interesting if the driver ever offed a cyclist with that sticker on..

I wonder if all of a sudden there would be no mention of any stickers allowed in court..


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## jarlrmai (23 Jun 2014)

More like "cyclists hang on to this wing mirror."


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## glenn forger (23 Jun 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> Be interesting if the driver ever offed a cyclist with that sticker on..
> 
> I wonder if all of a sudden there would be no mention of any stickers allowed in court..



"We are a considerate and cautious company whose fleet carry stickers telling other road users to xxxk off"


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## jarlrmai (23 Jun 2014)

Didn't the TrafficDroid once get cut up by a "Team GB" cycling support van..

There must be some insider story on these stickers, either an insurance or legal thing that's come up in the some industry consortium, that or someone screwed up and added a couple of zeroes to an order.


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## davefb (23 Jun 2014)

Saw one today... on a flat bed truck.. since there's nowhere to put this on the back of the vehicle, it's on the passenger door...
And it's a tfl one..
In Oldham..

Bizarre.


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## Ganymede (23 Jun 2014)

davefb said:


> Saw one today... on a flat bed truck.. since there's nowhere to put this on the back of the vehicle, it's on the passenger door...
> And it's a tfl one..
> In Oldham..
> 
> Bizarre.


To be seen as he left-hooks you. 

"Stay back! You're being left-hooked! And it's your fault!" (in an Oldham accent, obvs)


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## stowie (24 Jun 2014)

In the last two days I have had an absolute nobber of a bus driver overtake me and push me towards some parked cars - then stop yards down the road for a bus stop and a cock-womble of a tipper truck driver overtake me on a corner where he then started to pull in on me and force me to take evasive action. He then rumbled across a zebra crossing whilst people were starting to cross, and the net result of all of this was sitting a bit longer at the red lights yards down the road. Both had "cyclist stay back stickers". I think the best use for these stickers are to force feed them to these idiots until they learn how not to drive like f*ckw*ts.


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## glenn forger (24 Jun 2014)




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## glasgowcyclist (24 Jun 2014)

User said:


>




That's a very strange sign. Does it mean all cyclists are invisible to the driver, even when ahead of him?

GC


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## Origamist (26 Jun 2014)

Good news From LFGSS:


"We met TfL who agreed to
1. Ask FORS to remove stickers from small vehicles
2. Remove stickers from buses until a new wording is agreed
3. Write to other fleet owners requesting they remove stickers
4. Agree new wording for stickers on large lorries and buses.
5. Issue guidance with the new stickers on their use
6. Create a tfl web page with advice about the stickers

We have also recommended some different wording to TFLs marketing people.
Anything else Charlie?"

http://www.lfgss.com/thread129053.html


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## Ganymede (26 Jun 2014)

Origamist said:


> Good news From LFGSS:
> 
> 
> "We met TfL who agreed to
> ...


That is BRILLIANT. Action and collaboration. Good.


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## glasgowcyclist (26 Jun 2014)

User said:


> I did ask, you can guess the rest.


 
'Love is the drug' is now stuck in my head, thanks.

GC


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## hatler (26 Jun 2014)

Origamist said:


> Good news From LFGSS:
> 
> 
> "We met TfL who agreed to
> ...


Very cool. Thanks to whoever worked this one.


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## glasgowcyclist (26 Jun 2014)

Origamist said:


> Good news From LFGSS:
> 
> 
> "We met TfL who agreed to
> ...


 

Bang on!

You've earned one of these:






GC


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## gambatte (26 Jun 2014)

I think we need to calm down and recognise that some people are more practical, some more artisitic. All these stickers do is try to warn cyclists of potential dangers that lay ahead. In relation to different personalities in vehicles, those that have been proven to be not the best driver could be identified by a sticker. This could be applied by passing cyclists, who’ve witnessed errant driving behaviour.

I’d suggest we go with the term, ‘car user not technical’. This may be too big for a sticker to be legible, so I suggest we go with the acronym?


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## glenn forger (26 Jun 2014)

Cyclists stay back because this guy is on his mobile phone...


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Jun 2014)

Kangoo Van is my favourite bearer of said sticker.

Cyclists... stay back... this vehicle is defective and badly driven.


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## vickster (26 Jun 2014)

Blog on LCC site http://lcc.org.uk/articles/transport-for-london-says-cyclists-stay-back-stickers-to-go


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## bikemagpie (28 Jun 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> The bits from the inquest in quotes don't seem to mention the sticker, that's the journalist. The bits in quotes talks about the cyclist 'most likely' jumpng the red light which contributed to the death.


That seems very harsh, just assuming the cyclist is at fault.


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## Markymark (28 Jun 2014)

bikemagpie said:


> That seems very harsh, just assuming the cyclist is at fault.


I didn't. That was the coroner's verdict not mine.


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## Davidsw8 (1 Jul 2014)

New to this thread but I think the stickers are ok and when you see them they highlight that particular thought in your head. However, that thought is usually there anyway if I'm behind a large vehicle and it is a bit like having a sticker on a traffic light saying 'Stop at red'.

So, I'd say they're not a bad thing by any means but it is worrying that people need telling...


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## ianrauk (1 Jul 2014)

Davidsw8 said:


> So, I'd say they're not a bad thing by any means but it is worrying that people need telling...



Unfortunately, some people do.


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## Dmcd33 (1 Jul 2014)

If the stickers have no influence on the drivers behaviour, then why have them?

By telling me to stay back, am I supposed to fly over you?, take the lane?, go home and get my Volvo Estate V40 to further slow you down, Wait patiently behind every vehicle that has one?

My point is that the sticker implies that you are second class and should stay away from the single occupancy large vehicle that owns that piece of road, over and above your right to get to work?


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## theclaud (1 Jul 2014)

Dmcd33 said:


> If the stickers have no influence on the drivers behaviour, then why have them?
> 
> By telling me to stay back, am I supposed to fly over you?, take the lane?, go home and get my Volvo Estate V40 to further slow you down, Wait patiently behind every vehicle that has one?
> 
> My point is that the sticker implies that you are second class and should stay away from the single occupancy large vehicle that owns that piece of road, over and above your right to get to work?



This. 

When I want advice on road positioning or filtering from motorists, I will ask for it.


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## summerdays (1 Jul 2014)

theclaud said:


> This.
> 
> When I want advice on road positioning or filtering from motorists, I will ask for it.


I think a large majority of motorists might suggest we should be out of their way


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## w00hoo_kent (1 Jul 2014)

I didn't quite hear what the nice old dear in the passenger seat of the car said to me as they drove past, I was just getting going again having barely missed being taken out by someone turning right across me. I believe it was "they were indicating, we saw it" just in case I didn't realise I was in the wrong for trying to ride along a road. If I wanted discourse with car drivers, I think I'd be told that I shouldn't be there multiple times a day...


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## _aD (1 Jul 2014)

I would not be surprised if stickers like this just become a flag for motorists who hate cyclists to rally together in a common miasma. Every time they see another one their belief that cyclists shouldn't be in their way will simply be confirmed. With each sticker sighting their confirmation bias will concrete said belief, meaning they think like that for every mile they travel in their life :-(


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## EthelF (28 Jul 2014)

This morning I encountered a tipper truck that had at least 5 of these stickers on it - 3 at the rear (nearside, centre and offside) and 2 on the nearside side of its cargo hold (near the front and rear), plus a 'pedestrians stay back' sign on the door. I never saw the vehicle's offside so for all I know it could have more of the same there. The implication appeared to be "do not pass on any side", which seems a trifle unreasonable to me.
I took this to be a clear adnission that the driver is utterly incompetent, and gave it a very wide berth.

I saw no company markings on the truck, but the cab was painted in the union flag, with a portrait of the queen on the door - does Prince Philip drive a tipper as well as a black cab now?


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2014)

"Pedestrians stay back" on the door must pose a challenge for anyone trying to enter the vehicle, surely? Or does the driver levitate into his seat at the start of his shift?


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## Flying Dodo (28 Jul 2014)

Sadly, my backside isn't big enough to convey the message I'd like to say to the drivers of most vehicles on the road.


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## youngoldbloke (28 Jul 2014)

I've got one of these on the back of my car


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## Dan B (28 Jul 2014)

Does anyone make a sticker that has a black "70" in a red circle, with text above and below that says "Driver limited to" and "IQ points". I see a few vans that have something visually quite similar ("vehicle limited to 70 mph") but from the way they're driven it often seems not the most important thing they could use that sticker space to warn about


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## sheffgirl (29 Jul 2014)

I saw a pickup truck with a sticker with a bicycle and an arrow pointing to the right, which I preferred to the other ones.


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## summerdays (29 Jul 2014)

I once saw a car with a No Entry sticker on one side and a Keep Right sticker on the other, which distracted me at the time.


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2014)

I could easily knock up some "lorries stay back" stickers for my jersey at work. Maybe I should get a bunch made as pretty much the only time I find my self with a lorry to my side is when the lorry decides to pull up along side me. I then have to hope that he doesn't decide to turn across me.

Maybe if enough cyclists wore them the lorries might get the hint!


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2014)

I saw someone with a '1.5m required' back print at the Ride London Expo last year, was very nifty.


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## Markymark (29 Jul 2014)

0-markymark-0 said:


> I could easily knock up some "lorries stay back" stickers for my jersey at work. Maybe I should get a bunch made as pretty much the only time I find my self with a lorry to my side is when the lorry decides to pull up along side me. I then have to hope that he doesn't decide to turn across me.
> 
> Maybe if enough cyclists wore them the lorries might get the hint!


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## semislickstick (29 Jul 2014)

I'd love one that says
"Motorists, don't overtake me near junctions or when I'm signalling right"



(then possibly followed by some very small swearing words...or if you can read this I'm on your bonnet aren't I?)


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## stowie (29 Jul 2014)

Sainsburys has just announced a trial with "hi-tec" lorries designed to minimise risk to pedestrians and cyclists

To be fair, the modifications look quite well considered. However, they have taken the cyclist warning sticker to a whole new level..






Interestingly, the article says that there is a 360 degree view of the whole truck on a monitor in the cab, as well as warning systems to flag up any cyclists or pedestrians near the lorry. Then the article says that stickers warning of blind spots are put in strategic locations around the lorry. I wonder how many degrees they need above 360 to eliminate these blind spots?


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Jul 2014)

Subtle, I like it. If that's the only size it comes in it'll stop it appearing on Ford Ka's. 

Still guess most of the time I'll read it is just after the lorry has squeezed past me.


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## Tynan (29 Jul 2014)

been said but the issue is that it's in the imperative as if you're retarded

I'm all in favour of advice to take into consideration, be aware that, warning ... etc

whoever has no right whatsoever to tell you how to ride


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## Black Country Ste (30 Jul 2014)

semislickstick said:


> I'd love one that says
> "Motorists, don't overtake me near junctions or when I'm signalling right"



A _DRIVERS STAY BACK_ sticker is clearly essential.


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## glenn forger (30 Jul 2014)

Is it true that if you drive your car into a M&S lorry and you don't like it they'll give you a different one?


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## Archie_tect (30 Jul 2014)

Can't tell from that video if the car was already there and it was the M+S lorry being stupid or vice versa.
Thought the lorry was going to reverse into the bus... I certainly *wouldn't* have ridden behind a lorry with it's reversing lights showing!


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## Archie_tect (30 Jul 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Is it true that if you drive your car into a M&S lorry and you don't like it they'll give you a different one?


Only if you have the gift receipt.


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## Dmcd33 (30 Jul 2014)

Are these stickers used in other countries. If not, why are UK cyclists different?


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Jul 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> Can't tell from that video if the car was already there and it was the M+S lorry being stupid or vice versa.
> Thought the lorry was going to reverse into the bus... I certainly *wouldn't* have ridden behind a lorry with it's reversing lights showing!


Cab was stationary and angled for turning and the Pug drove into the lorry driver's blind spot inside the lorry's drag sweep. Lorry pulls off.

Can see no lorry indicators showing but the angle of the cab should have been a giveaway. Cyclists go through red lights there. Naughty.


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## Apollonius (30 Jul 2014)

Whenever I see one of those, I feel the urge to attach a "Should have gone to Specsavers" sticker to it.


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## confusedcyclist (1 Aug 2014)

I saw one of those TFL stickers in Leeds this week, what the hell are they doing this far North?


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Aug 2014)

dutchcyclist said:


> I saw one of those TFL stickers in Leeds this week, what the hell are they doing this far North?


 
Pfff, we've got them in Glasgow. I'll be heading up Fort William way in ten days and I'll bet I spot one up there too.

GC


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Aug 2014)

User said:


> We need a new thread for the one spotted the furthest from London.


 
Is there a prize?

GC


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## fossyant (1 Aug 2014)

Saw an A4 sized sticker on a Corsa van tonight. Almost as big as the car.


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## geekinaseat (1 Aug 2014)

Wherever they have a sticker on the back of a vehicle they should have one in the cab for the driver that says:

Cyclists or pedestrians may be alongside or in your blindspot. Take care.


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## young Ed (1 Aug 2014)

maybe i need a custom jersey made up in the same style on the back but just saying 'vehicles stay back' or 'vehicles pass wide' 
might actually work? or would i get a load of angry offended motorists shouting that i think i own the road etc?
Cheers Ed


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## Ganymede (1 Aug 2014)

I was thinking a vest like horseriders have: CAUTION, YOUNG HORSE IN TRAINING

CAUTION, YOUNG-AT-HEART CYCLIST IN PROGRESS?


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## young Ed (1 Aug 2014)

Ganymede said:


> I was thinking a vest like horseriders have: CAUTION, YOUNG HORSE IN TRAINING
> 
> CAUTION, YOUNG-AT-HEART CYCLIST IN PROGRESS?



CAUTION, YOUNG BIKE IN TRAINING
Cheers Ed


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## _aD (1 Aug 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Is there a prize?


Three fractured ribs, a broken tibia and a bruised spleen after you spent so long reading ALL THE DAMN SIGNS on the back of the lorry that you rode into it whilst it turned.


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Aug 2014)

User said:


> Of course



Hmm, I don't like the sound of that.


GC


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Aug 2014)

I almost bought one of those road.cc ''cyclists stay awesome'' but, while I like the sentiment, I don't particularly like the wording - I think I prefer ''cyclists stay cycling''. Does anybody know how much it would cost to get to get stickers printed? Or can you buy the sticky-backed plastic for domestic printing? 

I've spent so much time driving this year and watching cyclists cycle past that I'd like an ''I'd rather be on my bike'' one on the back. 

Or ''Cyclists think out of the box'' /alternatively, if that's too obscure, ''Cyclists think ''Out of the Box!'''


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## Sara_H (2 Aug 2014)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I almost bought one of those road.cc ''cyclists stay awesome'' but, while I like the sentiment, I don't particularly like the wording - I think I prefer ''cyclists stay cycling''. Does anybody know how much it would cost to get to get stickers printed? Or can you buy the sticky-backed plastic for domestic printing?
> 
> I've spent so much time driving this year and watching cyclists cycle past that I'd like an ''I'd rather be on my bike'' one on the back.
> 
> Or ''Cyclists think out of the box'' /alternatively, if that's too obscure, ''Cyclists think ''Out of the Box!'''


I'm having to catch the bus to work at the minute, due to injuries. Really hacks me off watching all the cyclists wizz by! I'd most definitely rather be on my bike.


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## Ganymede (2 Aug 2014)

[QUOTE 3210348, member: 45"]Do the stickers peel off?[/QUOTE]
Nominate you to find out!! Remember to report back....

(I actually mean this)


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## Ganymede (2 Aug 2014)

[QUOTE 3210355, member: 45"]I've not seen any recently in Somerset.[/QUOTE]
Ha! Of course - you're a worse nominee that I'd be myself - we need to find a willing/coerce-able Londoner for preference.


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## Dan B (2 Aug 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Is it true that if you drive your car into a M&S lorry and you don't like it they'll give you a different one?


I don't know, but if you try to pass a John Lewis lottery on the left you'll find out it's impossible. They're never knowingly undertaken


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## w00hoo_kent (2 Aug 2014)

Ganymede said:


> Ha! Of course - you're a worse nominee that I'd be myself - we need to find a willing/coerce-able Londoner for preference.


I wouldn't get that close to one, haven't you seen the warning stickers? :-)

They tend to be a bit out of reach on lorries and are a decent (could get off with a hairdryer, a bit harder with finger nails) looking adhesive so I wouldn't want to try (even if it was a sensible suggestion). Also, you don't tend to be around them long. Much easier to just stick another message across the top. "Driver Ignorant" would be my favourite non-sweary one.


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## Ganymede (2 Aug 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I wouldn't get that close to one, haven't you seen the warning stickers? :-)
> 
> They tend to be a bit out of reach on lorries and are a decent (could get off with a hairdryer, a bit harder with finger nails) looking adhesive so I wouldn't want to try (even if it was a sensible suggestion). Also, you don't tend to be around them long. Much easier to just stick another message across the top. "Driver Ignorant" would be my favourite non-sweary one.


I think it's a question of creeping up to a parked one - stealth is the key! 

I'm liking "Driver Ignorant" as an addition. Heh.


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Aug 2014)

[QUOTE 3210348, member: 45"]Do the stickers peel off?[/QUOTE]
I don't know but I'm prepared to try. If I get the surface really clean there must be some cleaning material that'll do it. Alternatively, I could stick something on over the muck.

Tempted to get some of these tidied up and printed.


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Aug 2014)

[QUOTE 3210441, member: 259"]Dropbars, please![/QUOTE]
Sorted...


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## EthelF (4 Aug 2014)

Ganymede said:


> I think it's a question of creeping up to a parked one - stealth is the key!



Tricky. A lot of vehicles displaying those stickers also sport ones saying "Pedestrians, avoid walking close to this vehicle at any time". Presumably put there to discourage people from trying to peel off the other stickers. Cunning.


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## EthelF (6 Aug 2014)

Another variation on the theme: this morning I saw a tipper with "If you can read this I can't see you" written on the lower section of the passenger door.
I had 2 issues with this:
1. I thought lorries are supposed to have mirrors so that the driver CAN see anybody alongside the cab?
2. The lettering was so large I could easily read it from lane 1 while the tipper was in lane 4. How much space exactly does the driver need?

I also noticed that just about every larger vehicle now is sporting multiple warning signs, it's as if tgey have been proliferating while this thread has been going on!


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## w00hoo_kent (6 Aug 2014)

I suggested on the TFL lorry questionnaire that any vehicle that 'needed' a sticker on the back should also have one on the dashboard saying "remember, there may be cyclists or pedestrians near this vehicle" or similar. Both sides should be warned, that gets rid of the 'But I've got a sticker' syndrome.

I was following a flat bed thing today and the sticker was so small it was impossible to read until you were almost on top of it (lots of writing in the 'don't pass on the left hand side of this vehicle' vein) I was half expecting it to say 'if you can read this you're already too close'.


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