# Looking at buying an Ice Sprint, have some questions



## Binka (13 Aug 2013)

Are they easy/quick to fold?

If you're touring with panniers and a rack can the trike fold with the rack still on? Just thinking if I needed to get a train somewhere.

Can they get through some/most/none of the barriers that you sometimes see on cycle paths? The motorcycle preventing ones where you have to turn one way and then the other?

What panniers are good for touring? Do I need recumbent specific ones? I've got some Ortelieb rollers already and it would be a shame to not be able to use them.

Should I get a neck rest?

Do I need a parking brake?

Any advantages of an Adventure over a Sprint? I haven't actually tried either yet so really need to test ride them. Will ring dtek tomorrow and see if they're open on Saturday.

Thanks.


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## lazytyke (13 Aug 2013)

Hi Binka - I bought a Sprint last year - in answer to your questions



Binka said:


> Are they easy/quick to fold? - relatively yep. You have to unscrew a couple of knobs under the seat, and open a quick release that gets the seat off, then just fold down handlebars and unod another quick release. I'd say 5 mins tops
> 
> If you're touring with panniers and a rack can the trike fold with the rack still on? Just thinking if I needed to get a train somewhere.
> Yep - but from memory it folds flatter with it off
> ...


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## Binka (13 Aug 2013)

Thanks Teamonster, that's really helpful.

How long did it take you to get used to riding a recumbent?

Also do I need to go for options like the Ice computer fixing or is it possible to just fix a bike computer as normal? Say on a mirror stem?

The radical design bags look great, but pricey. I read on a blog (I think Aunty Helen's) that she tried some and had some reservations. Main one been the lack of waterproofness, but I see you can buy liners. Also she got some small holes in hers after the first use.


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## lazytyke (14 Aug 2013)

It took me a few months of riding - still after a year I feel I'm still getting stronger. But for me it was as much mental as physical, they are great fun but different. I used to shoot up hills on my DF, now I take them sedately and don't care. That's not to say they are slow up hills, I still beat some club riders I rude with. The thing is the trike encourages a more relaxed approach to cycling, it took me a while to make the change and chill out a bit. You do need to persevere with the trike though, it may feel like you are cycling through treacle at first and you'll get aches in odd places, but body and mind adjust ! The reward is worth it in the end.

I had the computer mount to start of with, it's OK but not in the best place. You could mount a computer on the mirror stem, but you'll find that's much better used for resting your hands on. I bought a mount from a Dutch firm, its basically a bracket which fixes onto where the mudguards mount, there's a cylinder comes off the bracket which you can then mount computer to. It's much better as its more in your eye line.

Radical bags aren't waterproof, if you are using the rack then stick with your normal panniers. Otherwise, dry bags or bin liners inside the radicals for really wet days . My radicals are a year old and in god nick,but as you say I think Auntie Helen had issues, I think that must be a one off though . They are pretty robust.


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## lazytyke (14 Aug 2013)

[quote="teamonster, post: 2597119, member: I bought a mount from a Dutch firm, its basically a bracket which fixes onto where the mudguards mount, there's a cylinder comes off the bracket which you can then mount computer to. It's much better as its more in your eye [/quote]

http://www.recumbentparts.com/cat/1/3/0/0/accessories.html

Here you go link to the company - you need bith cylinder and bracket. It doesn't work if you're using quick release mudguards, but I've taken my QRs off.


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## byegad (14 Aug 2013)

Sprint is more stable and aerodynamic, the anti-motorcycle on my local NCN1 mean lifting the trike and sometimes WILL stop you from getting through.Headrests are great for slow climbing and taking a nap, but will vibrate your head to the point where you have blurred vision at any speed, and a parking brake is useful not only for getting on and off but stopping the trike blow away on a windy day.


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## jayjay (14 Aug 2013)

Adventure will fit through most of the path traps around Hull. just have to watch out for the flag, and check the mirrors. Keyhole or zigzag types.
Parking brake _of some sort_ essential, unless you like chasing riderless trikes down the street.


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## Binka (14 Aug 2013)

Thanks for the advice. I'm off to try out a Sprint and an Adventure at the weekend. Can't wait.


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## BlackPanther (14 Aug 2013)

Re the parkingbrake...I had one on my old Trice, and thought it was an essential bit of kit (never used it as a 'drag' brake, but it's supposed to come in handy on long descents).

BUT My Catrike 700 doesn't have a rear brake, and I don't miss it at all as I just keep a bit of old innertube wrapped around the grips to hook over the brake lever/s. If I were to buy a new Trike (perish the thought!) I wouldn't pay extra for it for sure.

Headrest? I have one on the Catrike, but could live without it.

Ortliebs rule (see them on my pic) and they're all you need really for touring. I do have 2x25 litre bags that slip over the seat which I use for the daily commute. I prefer them to the panniers as they're better for aero-dynamics, and give the trike a less cluttered look.

I can get the (800mm) wide Catrike though/under most barriers.....but not all!


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## starhawk (17 Aug 2013)

Wondering about all this talk about parkingbrake, the Trice is delivered standard with this Velcro strip you use on the brake levers, works very well, I have also bought BikeBrake basically a thick rubberband originally meant for DF but works very well for trikes too. So I see no need for a separate parkingbrake.
A neckrest is good to have but ICE original neckrest is crap, I bought one from KrispySteve and it can be adjusted to any angle/height you want. Byegads complaint that it gives you blurred vision on all but smooth tarmac is only true if you use it all the time and that is probably not the case


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## byegad (17 Aug 2013)

Yes, I have one on the QNT, for sleeping or plodding up hill. I was pointing out that you can't use it at speed. My other two trikes don't have one, it is _that_ useful!


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## Binka (17 Aug 2013)

Well I've been for a test ride today and preferred the Sprint over the adventure. 

Neither model had a neck rest attached but I didn't feel like I was needing one. Kevin at dtek said that a parking brake was quite important but I like the idea of saving some money by using velcro.


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## windmiller (17 Aug 2013)

My new Sprint came with a rear V brake as standard, I find it very useful.


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## byegad (17 Aug 2013)

Velcro works, but is fiddly and a separate rear brake with lock on (I use a seven speed rear shifter on an AVID BB5 on the QNT.) is easier. Your choice, neither is 'wrong'.


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## starhawk (18 Aug 2013)

byegad said:


> Velcro works, but is fiddly and a separate rear brake with lock on (I use a seven speed rear shifter on an AVID BB5 on the QNT.) is easier. Your choice, neither is 'wrong'.


 
The "easier" was the reason I was thinking of getting one but now I have the Hub motor at the back and I don't think I can get a disc brake on that wheel, Anyway why get a third brake when the trike stops at a dime with the two brakes I already have?


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## ufkacbln (18 Aug 2013)

The problem with trikes is that if left unattended they roll down any incline

You get round this either by toeing the wheels into the kerb, or buying cheap velcro cinch straps that nold the front brakes on


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## byegad (18 Aug 2013)

I've lost count of how many straps I've lost during a ride. They catch your clothing, get undone and sneak away when you're not looking.


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## starhawk (19 Aug 2013)

byegad said:


> I've lost count of how many straps I've lost during a ride. They catch your clothing, get undone and sneak away when you're not looking.


 
Do you have a problem getting new ones? In my case I have exactly the same straps that came with the trike when I bought it. I followed ICE advise of how to store them when not in use


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## byegad (19 Aug 2013)

I make my own. Velcro is cheap enough to buy from Wilkinsons or other cheap supermarket style shops.


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## Binka (19 Aug 2013)

Well decided I couldn't run to a new one but I've managed to get a nearly new one from laid back bikes. Should be here next week. So excited.


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## lazytyke (19 Aug 2013)

Well done - hope you enjoy it. Once you get used to them they are such fun - just remember though, you'll be a local celebrity now, be prepared for people taking lots of photos. I don't know what it's like in Lincoln, but riding one in London is like having an invisible force field around you that repels all cars, they give you such a wide berth and seem almost afraid to overtake. Even white van man tends to behave !


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## Binka (19 Aug 2013)

I've been reassured from all the threads on here and other forums saying that drivers give you a wide berth.


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## Scoosh (25 Aug 2013)

Recumbents of any shape or form are not for the shy , retiring, 'don't notice me' types  ..... 

I have a 2-wheeled Nazca Fuego and the comments are usually - 'cool bike', 'I like your bike', 'that's so ..... ' - at which point I have been known to say "_COOL_ is the word you are looking for !" 

When I get on my upwrong and ride the same routes, I become 'The Anonymous Cyclist" once again ! 

Hope you have many happy miles with your ICE.


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## CopperBrompton (1 Sep 2013)

The issue Byegad describes with the neck-rest makes me suspect he is using is as a _head_-rest rather than a _neck_-rest. I never had that issue, using it all the time at speeds of up to 54mph. However, the standard neck-rest isn't as comfortable as it could be, so personally I had a leatherwork friend make a new one (using the ICE framework):





It's now really comfy. :-)


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## byegad (1 Sep 2013)

No it's a neck rest and as you mention yours, I'll mention mine, it's the standard ICE item. Set to avoid contacting a helmet, should I ever wear one on the trike and very comfortable for sleeping and plodding at 2 or 3 mph up hill. But useless on tar and chippings roads at any kind of speed. My head jiggles, my varifocals jiggle and I can't see a damn thing!


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## CopperBrompton (1 Sep 2013)

Weird - I've never experienced any vibration issues with mine at any speed, before or after the modification. I wonder what the difference is?


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## byegad (2 Sep 2013)

Do you ride with your neck in contact with the rest all of the time?


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## CopperBrompton (2 Sep 2013)

Yes


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## byegad (3 Sep 2013)

Don't know what the difference is, if you wear prescription varifocals too there is none, except tyres, pressure and road surface. I _can _ride on silky smooth tarmac with my neck on the rest, but any kind of lump or bump affects my vision.


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## CopperBrompton (3 Sep 2013)

I don't wear glasses, so maybe that's it, but from your description it sounded worse


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## Tango (9 Sep 2013)

When out with guys on standard road bikes, is the sprint 'quick enough' obviously that depends on the fitness of the rider.

How does the vortex compare, it looks a lot quicker, but I imagine it doesn't feel as smooth / comfortable


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## starhawk (9 Sep 2013)

Well usually the trike is slower uphill but faster downhill but on the plain there is no difference, unless there is a headwind, then the trike is faster


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## Binka (9 Sep 2013)

Iive finally put my Sprint together and have had a couple of short rides on it. No neck rest and I'm not feeling like I need one but might ask for one for a Xmas present. I'm going to order some side pod bags for it. But love it. Did 7 miles on Saturday and my legs were aching, it is different muscles from an upright. There's no way I could do the same distance on it that I can on an upright at the minute. But I'll get there, going to go out again this afternoon and do about 15 miles. Can't wait!


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## byegad (9 Sep 2013)

Fitness will come, it took me about 1000 miles to be consistently faster on a two wheel bent than a DF bike. Some get the 'bent legs faster, a few take more miles than I did.


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## windmiller (9 Sep 2013)

From my experience of riding recumbent bikes and trikes for just 5 years, you can go further and faster on both, sometimes faster even uphill. Yes there is a baptism period but that is just part of the fun.

Back in July I rode to Carter Bar and back from Newcastle on my Sprint 26. This was my second crack at it, the first time I got several miles past Otterburn - but turned back because of the hot weather and I ran out of time to get home.
For the second attempt I was better prepared and made it in good time, although it's not a piece of cake and the A696 can be a busy fast road in places with some blind spots. The traffic treated me with respect and gave me a wide berth apart from one German motorcyclist who tried to pat me on the head at terminal velocity, (probably the grandson of the git who bombed me granny's hoose).

Seriously though I would'nt worry about the safety being seen factor on the road.


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## byegad (10 Sep 2013)

Totally agree about safety. I use a small flag or Day-Glo ribbons on a flag pole to attract attention in poor visibility. While not necessary on open roads, I find they let the driver behind the car behind me see why the first driver has left a gap between hin and the car in front of me. If you see what I mean.


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## PloddinPedro (11 Sep 2013)

byegad said:


> Fitness will come, it took me about 1000 miles to be consistently faster on a two wheel bent than a DF bike. Some get the 'bent legs faster, a few take more miles than I did.


I've not (yet) ridden a recumbent of any type and I'm intrigued by this concept of 'bent legs'. Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine. Reasons are hard to come by, but I've seen it proposed that the heart cannot maintain the same rate of circulation to legs that are raised, so there's less oxygen getting to the muscles. Alternatively, others seem to be saying as byegad does, that it's just a matter of time and practice, in effect a process of adaptation. But if the latter, could it simply be that recumbents are generally harder and there is a period of training/fitness improvement?


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## Scoosh (11 Sep 2013)

2-wheeled 'bents are certainly different from uprights and, I found, required a fairly lengthy settling-in period, in which I gained balance, competence and confidence . Once I'd got enough, I began to enjoy my 'bent riding. It took me the best part of 6-8 (mainly winter/spring) months. The legs have strengthened too, which helped ! 

I made a commitment to myself that I would _only_ ride the 'bent until I felt comfortable and confident, then I would allow myself to ride an upright again. It worked quite well and I can now alternate between the two without too much inconvenience/ embarrassment.


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## PloddinPedro (11 Sep 2013)

Scoosh said:


> 2-wheeled 'bents are certainly different from uprights and, I found, required a fairly lengthy settling-in period, in which I gained balance, competence and confidence . Once I'd got enough, I began to enjoy my 'bent riding. It took me the best part of 6-8 (mainly winter/spring) months. The legs have strengthened too, which helped !
> 
> I made a commitment to myself that I would _only_ ride the 'bent until I felt comfortable and confident, then I would allow myself to ride an upright again. It worked quite well and I can now alternate between the two without too much inconvenience/ embarrassment.


That's encouraging, but I guess the interesting part is: has your performance on your upright improved - i.e. the 'bent riding has trained you to a higher level of fitness - or, has your ability on the upright remained the same or worsened - i. e. you have adapted away from uprights and towards the 'bent position?


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## Scoosh (11 Sep 2013)

Well, when I get on the upright, I pedal a bit and think 'My goodness, this is so light and so quick !' - but I guess that's the difference 6-8kg makes ...

Very interestingly, a month or so ago, only having been on an upright a couple of times in the preceding weeks, I commented to myself, 'Gosh, it's very high up here and the view is quite different !' 

At that point I knew I am a 'bent rider.


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## byegad (12 Sep 2013)

PloddinPedro said:


> I've not (yet) ridden a recumbent of any type and I'm intrigued by this concept of 'bent legs'. Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine. Reasons are hard to come by, but I've seen it proposed that the heart cannot maintain the same rate of circulation to legs that are raised, so there's less oxygen getting to the muscles. Alternatively, others seem to be saying as byegad does, that it's just a matter of time and practice, in effect a process of adaptation. But if the latter, could it simply be that recumbents are generally harder and there is a period of training/fitness improvement?



No I totally disagree that recumbents are somehow less efficient. In several posts over the years, keen DF riders converting to recumbents have mentioned that their heart rates are slower on a bent for a given speed. Recumbents use slightly different muscles, so I found the top of my thigh (As I sit on a bent.) ached after riding a bent, this muscle seems to do more work, but equally when I'd got my bent legs, I'd find after several weeks on a bent, the calf on each leg would ache after riding a DF. So it's not intrinsically harder, just uses different muscles. 

The fastest unfaired bikes are recumbents, by a good measure so IF there is a slight disadvantage inherent from the riding position then the gain from a more aerodynamic position more than makes up for it.

Where recumbents can be seen to be slower is that they are expensive so tend to be bought, and so ridden, by riders of a certain age, as they tend to have the disposable income to afford them. AND they tend to be heavier than DFs. However there are now several light performance recumbent bikes available and some of the younger riders are remarkably fast on them. Which is why the UCI banned recumbents from competition back in the 1930s where on flatter stages of races, a middle ranking rider was able to pilot the somewhat bulky Mochet recumbent at the head of the peleton who were unable to pass him. 'For kilometre after kilometre'. They promptly banned recumbents.


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## PloddinPedro (12 Sep 2013)

Thanks byegad, that's actually quite encouraging. As an aging randonneur suffering from increasing difficulty from discomfort on my DF steed, particularly in my hands and perineum**, I'm wondering if I might get more mileage from my declining energies if I switch to a bike more suited to my particular problems. But it's not going to work if there is a fundamental drawback with recumbents arising from some kind of inherent power disadvantage because my power-to-weight ratio is already at the limit of the requirements for the minimum Audax speed. If however, as you suggest, it's a question of adaptation then there is some hope that going laid back could be helpful in my particular circumstances.

The obvious answer is to suck-it-and-see I guess!

** and yes, I've already done the professional bike fit, custom frame, wider rims, larger section tyres at lower pressures, squishy bar tape, Brooks saddle, etc. stuff that is de rigeur for DF comfort; but my state of decrepitude requires still more tricks!


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## Scoosh (14 Sep 2013)

There are at least 3 recumbent Audax riders here in Scotland (pretty quick too !), Dave McCraw did PBP on a borrowed one, as his own was 'hors de combat' and Alf Chamings and Tim Edwards are always up with the 'fast boys'.


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## BenM (24 Sep 2013)

PloddinPedro said:


> has your performance on your upright improved - i.e. the 'bent riding has trained you to a higher level of fitness


Speaking from recent experience - my performance on a DF (Marin Fairfax) has definitely improved after nearly 3 years of riding the 'bent. On Saturday I managed an average of 18mph (I am a bit slow/lazy), over roads between Cranleigh and Bramley, over which I would have expected to make an average of 12mph on the same DF back in the day. Some day soon I will ride the same route on the Orca and see what I can do on that - there is nothing like having a PB to aim at


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## starhawk (24 Sep 2013)

The question of "bent legs" has been a case of controversy for a long time, some claim that they have them others claim that there is no difference. I lean against the latter, as I had no setting in period. 
"Some things I've read suggest that the recumbent position is just not as efficient as the upright one and the rider cannot produce the same power as on a DF machine."
Rather the opposite is true, on a DF you can use the gravity it is said, but to use it you need to climb up on the pedal so you just use a power conversion and don't gain anything extra, on the trike on the other hand you have the seat to work against so you can press more than your weight with your legs which you can't on a DF


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## byegad (24 Sep 2013)

I'd suggest that you're right Starhawk in that you *can* press more than your weight on a bent, but if you do so on a regular basis your knees *will* suffer in the long run. I have an Arthritic knee, not due to riding recumbents as it was going that way before I bought my first back in 2005, and I find spinning rather than mashing, where available gears make that possible, is not only nearly as fast, but much kinder to my knee. 

I only mash on hills where I've got down into bottom gear, variously 12", 14" or 15" depending on the trike, and cannot maintain a spin, then I only mash for as short a time as I can, so if a hill eases I remain in bottom gear and pick up cadence, to save my knee. Bents are a bit slower up hills, for most people, and it's down to extra weight of the bent over a DF more than any inherent 'disadvantage' of the riding position. After all Bent riding positions are far more varied than DF ones. 

I did take a while to recondition my legs for bent's and it was the top of my thighs, as seated on the bent that ached for a hundred miles or so after every ride. After that it took me about 1000 miles to be as fast on my heavy AZUB-4 as on my lighter, but no light weight, Thorn Club Tour. I was in my mid 50s when I converted to bents and rode both DFs and bents for two and a half years before ditching DFs altogether. Had I converted in my mid 20s I would no doubt have noticed the difference, which I put down to using slightly different muscle groups, less or not at all.

Would I go back to a DF? No chance!


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## starhawk (25 Sep 2013)

Yes I know that mashing that way is not good for your knees but only if you do it on a regular basis, but I dont do that on a regular basis but when you find yourself in a steep hill and haven't for various reasons the right gear in then that power is good to have. But it was only after I changed from SPD to Terra Trikes Heel Support Pedals that I could access that power, my legs refused to press that hard when the foot was only supported under the toes.
I had no problem with the conversion from DF to trike, and I was faster on the trike then on the DF (except in the uphills) so either I already had "bent legs" or there is no recondition. 
"Would I go back to a DF? No chance!" Couldn't agree more


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## byegad (29 Sep 2013)

Starhawk from your photo you are also several decades younger than I was when I first bought a recumbent. THAT is the difference in time to condition your bent legs.


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## starhawk (29 Sep 2013)

byegad said:


> Starhawk from your photo you are also several decades younger than I was when I first bought a recumbent. THAT is the difference in time to condition your bent legs.



Photos can be decieving my friend! I'm actually 60 since mid august, how old are you?


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## byegad (29 Sep 2013)

Somewhat older. sadly!


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