# Vuelta - **SPOILER**



## rich p (20 Aug 2011)

TTT just started.

It'll be interesting to see how Cav goes again with Kittel amongst the sprint opposition fresh from winning 3 stages in the Tour of Poland.


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## RecordAceFromNew (20 Aug 2011)

Sky finished 17th out of 18 finished so far... Should I despair for Cav, if he ends up there?


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## wildjetskier (20 Aug 2011)

What happened to Cav !?!? Eurosport not showing what occurred. Congrats Leopard, good effort Liquigas


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## TVC (20 Aug 2011)

Cav is tweeting that he felt bad in the warm up.


ITV4 coverage was shocking. Ned's no anchorman and Phil & Paul are AWOL. Seems like the whole thing was done on a budget of 75p. Hope ToB will be a bit better.


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## wildjetskier (20 Aug 2011)

Eurosports coverage was ok, only saw Sky at beginning and then on the turn in the last corner !!! and as for the Spanish TV coverage that was shocking, the Jerseys kept changing colour, hopefully they will have ironed out the probs for tomorrow


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## Noodley (20 Aug 2011)

Just watched the "highlights" on ITV4 and I have not a clue about what happened...very poor highlights package, shite summary bu the aussie sounding bloke and very little from the studio pundits by way of insight.

I am slightly puzzled as to why it was so bad...Not a good start


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## Simba (20 Aug 2011)

Glad I am not the only one wondering where Phil and Paul are. The highlights show was abysmal.


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## KingstonBiker (21 Aug 2011)

The ITV4 coverage of the TDF was excellent. I didn't expect their Vuelta coverage would match up but I didn't think it would be as bad as it was tonight.


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## rualexander (21 Aug 2011)

Yep, without Phil and Paul its a much lower quality viewing experience.
But at least they are showing it on freeview so it's better than nothing.


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## Keith Oates (21 Aug 2011)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Sky finished 17th out of 18 finished so far... Should I despair for Cav, if he ends up there?



It was not a good showing for Sky and now Wiggins will be even less likely to make a podium than he was before. I hope that Cav is not going to Sky but all the hints suggests that he will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (21 Aug 2011)

What a cock up for Sky - Brad already almost a minute down - not good.

Nibs off to a flying start though.


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## Noodley (21 Aug 2011)

Who is doing the live commentary? It would be nice to get a break from Phil and Paul if there was someone else who did a better job, but the highlights summary was woeful. Maybe it's a ploy by Phil and Paul so that when they come back everyone will be delighted


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## woohoo (21 Aug 2011)

I thought the guy doing the live commentary was OK, at least when the sound was working. The highlights bit was dismal but I think that it was poorly presented and edited (and TTs are a bit difficult to televise anyway because they action is always jumping from team to team and start to finish etc).

The "studio" appears to be the inside of a container with a lick of paint and a couple of chairs and I could do without the matey "Swifty" style.

Still it's better than anything the BBC are offering.


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## Noodley (21 Aug 2011)

The aussie (anyone know who he is?) is good at live commentary, much better than the commentary feeds from the studio (esp. as Matt Rendell has an awful droning voice! A voice suited to writing  )

Quite enjoying the stage when Aussie bloke is on...


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## rualexander (21 Aug 2011)

Yes the Aussie guy is actually ok, but it would be good if he had a sidekick to butt in and mix things up a bit, like Phil and Paul do.


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## Simba (21 Aug 2011)

I personally don't know how much I can stomach the poor commentary and the studio mongs.


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## rich p (21 Aug 2011)

You lot need Eurosport with the knowledgeable David Harmon and Brian Smith doing their usual efficient job.


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## wildjetskier (21 Aug 2011)

rich p said:


> You lot need Eurosport with the knowledgeable David Harmon and Brian Smith doing their usual efficient job.



Much better today on Eurosport, good coverage


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## wildjetskier (21 Aug 2011)

Cav just tweeted

Hard finish! We were riding for young Degenkolb for jersey, but we couldn't quite get organised. I could only get him to 700m


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## Simba (21 Aug 2011)

rich p said:


> You lot need Eurosport with the knowledgeable David Harmon and Brian Smith doing their usual efficient job.



Well I have the full Sky Sports package and for some reason don't get Eurosport


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## raindog (22 Aug 2011)

wildjetskier said:


> Cav just tweeted
> 
> Hard finish! We were riding for young Degenkolb for jersey, but we couldn't quite get organised. I could only get him to 700m


Thanks for that! Cav could be seen shouting at the train at 10ks to go, presumably because they were going too fast, too early - Harmon had mentioned Degenkolb being well placed to take over the race lead, in the end he finished 10th.

I thought the stage was a shoe-in for Sagan, but he got 11th - strange how these things turn out. Must've been the short steep hill and the funny, wiggly finish, but it's nice to see things get shaken up a bit.


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## rich p (23 Aug 2011)

It's hard to get excited by the Vuelta in the first week usually as it bores its way through the hot flatlands on motorways but today sees it going up into the Sierra Nevadas for the first mountain-top finish.

Wiggo tested his legs yesterday so it'll be good to see how he goes.


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## accountantpete (23 Aug 2011)

Apparently Scarponi's tyre exploded before the off - are they using some Halford's in-house products?


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## accountantpete (23 Aug 2011)

Cav detached and working his way back to the Peloton. No team mates sent back to help!


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## rich p (23 Aug 2011)

Hardly worth it today I suppose. He may not make the cut-off at this rate


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## accountantpete (23 Aug 2011)

He didn't bother to wait for the end - abandon!


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## raindog (23 Aug 2011)

Dan Martin just took the bunch sprint for third!!


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## woohoo (23 Aug 2011)

Noodley said:


> The aussie (anyone know who he is?) is good at live commentary, much better than the commentary feeds from the studio (esp. as Matt Rendell has an awful droning voice! A voice suited to writing  )
> 
> Quite enjoying the stage when Aussie bloke is on...



I think it's Mark Keenan. It can't be easy doing the whole session on his own. He certainly knows his stuff and explains the potential impact of any of the moves/attacks very well.

.. and Cav looked "cooked" pretty early on today.


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## Simba (23 Aug 2011)

Anyone know why cav abandoned?


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## monnet (23 Aug 2011)

He says he's drained and going to have tests to find out. Possibly feeling over raced? It looked like the Tour took a lot out of him and he's dead set on the World's (apparently he didn't even party in Paris). I'd guess he needs a couple of easy weeks to recover and then get back into shape for the World's.


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## Keith Oates (24 Aug 2011)

He's done quite a bit of racing since the TdF and I was surprised that he actually started the Vuelta. Let's hope he's fit and well for the Worlds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bodie (24 Aug 2011)

We are usually on holiday for the Vuelta so I have seen a fair bit of it on Spanish TV....and to be honest it makes about as much sense as the ITV4 coverage!

Dissapointed by the quality but we all need to keep watching so that viewing figures justify them putting more effort into it next year. I don't have Eurosport so I'd usually be watching some dodgy internet feed so this is an improvement, albeit marginal.

Dissapointing day for Anton yesterday, I can only hope that his form improves as the race progresses - and the roads get steeper.

I can't see past Nibali again for the win, how Sky must regret not signing him when they had the chance!


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## rodgy-dodge (24 Aug 2011)

sorry if this has already been posted

http://www.markcavendish.co.uk/

update on Cav.


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## Keith Oates (25 Aug 2011)

Wiggins is not doing so well at the moment and any hopes of a podium seem fairly remote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rich p (25 Aug 2011)

Keith Oates said:


> Wiggins is not doing so well at the moment and any hopes of a podium seem fairly remote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Losing 42 seconds in the ITT may have buggered his chances but the end of the stage was very steep yesterday and doesn't suit him. I'm hoping he'll be able to do better on the regular mountains and take some time in the ITT.

He'll suffer on the Angliru though for sure.


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## gallego1968 (26 Aug 2011)

I am in Torrievieja in Spain and this week saw the bikes go by, this is the first time i have ever saw a race like this live and boy where they going fast around the roundabout i was standing at. I will put some pictures up once i get back.


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## Keith Oates (27 Aug 2011)

A big pile up on the closing straight yesterday, I hope there is no serious damage to any of the riders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2011)

Looking forward to today which is reputed to be the steepest Grand Tour finish ever.


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2011)

Rodriguez won - commentary was awful and the back up team are not much better.


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## woohoo (27 Aug 2011)

Rodriguez now has the red. Scarponni was second on the stage and gained time on Nibali today but it was reported tha he suffered a fair amount of bruising after Farrar's splat on the tarmac yesterday.

The sound quality that ITV4 received was poor but Matt Keenan is a very good commentator and the studio people did an acceptable job as a backup when the live sound disappeared.


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## beastie (27 Aug 2011)

Better with Eurosport by far.


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## beastie (27 Aug 2011)

That was a tough finish, tomorrow is gonna be tough as well. Can Wiggins stay in touch before the TT?


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## Keith Oates (28 Aug 2011)

It's asking a lot for him to gain back that amount of time, I think he will be lucky to make top ten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## beastie (28 Aug 2011)

He should make up about a minute on Nibbles and 2 on Rodgriguez. I think top ten would be good from where he is now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (28 Aug 2011)

Froome and Wiggins absolutely superb together, and Dan Martin takes the win - what a stage.


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## accountantpete (28 Aug 2011)

ITV$ sorry I mean ITV4 did their company proud - they cut to a commercial break just as Bradley Wiggins was crossing the line.


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## rich p (28 Aug 2011)

Brilliant ride by Wiggo. Great to see him being aggressive and pulling the race apart. It's making the loss of time in the TTT fiasco more of a shame though.

ITT tomorrow which is his forte if he has anything left.


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## Keith Oates (28 Aug 2011)

A good stage for Wiggins, which has actually very pleasantly surprised me, if he can keep this form up then a top ten is possible and a good TT tomorrow will help very nicely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## iLB (28 Aug 2011)

mr wiggins giving it some fooking pasty, fantastic ride.


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## Paul_L (28 Aug 2011)

he should make up quite a bit of time on a long ITT tomorrow. I suspect a podium is a bit too much to ask for as a result of the TTT debacle though.

Hope i'm wrong.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Aug 2011)

Paul_L said:


> he should make up quite a bit of time on a long ITT tomorrow. I suspect a podium is a bit too much to ask for as a result of the TTT debacle though.


Wiggins only lost 42 seconds in the TTT, that is highly unlikely to effect his GC position at the end of a three week tour.


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## raindog (28 Aug 2011)

I'm still trying to get this into perspective.
Nibs is (was?) by far the favourite to win the GC, with Anton being out of sorts.
Wiggins has just put seven seconds into Nibs on a tough mountain top finish.
Tomorrow is the ITT.
Where do we go from here?


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## bennydorano (28 Aug 2011)

Wiggins into 2/1 2nd fav (Nibali 6/4) so the bookies dont share the pessimistic views of some here. I actually backed Bradley EW at 16/1  60 secs of the lead? On a 40km TT he could put minutes into some of the climbers above him in the GC.

Great ride from Dan Martin today as well, what's his TT like? Genuine GC contender?


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## Crackle (28 Aug 2011)

raindog said:


> I'm still trying to get this into perspective.
> Nibs is (was?) by far the favourite to win the GC, with Anton being out of sorts.
> Wiggins has just put seven seconds into Nibs on a tough mountain top finish.
> Tomorrow is the ITT.
> Where do we go from here?




I don't know but it's like watching a coming of age and Froome is looking an able lieutenant as well.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 Aug 2011)

bennydorano said:


> Great ride from Dan Martin today as well, what's his TT like? Genuine GC contender?



He is a great climber. Can't TT. Could be a GC contender in future years.

That was a great ride by Wiggins and Froome and shows that just gradually increasing the pressure can work as well in the mountains as sharp attacks. It makes me regret even more that Bradley wasn't able to continue in the TdF this year, as the Alps are ideal for this kind of persistent riding.


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

According to theie schedules, there is no live coverage of the ITT on Eurosport today.


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

woohoo said:


> According to theie schedules, there is no live coverage of the ITT on Eurosport today.




Bollix! It's on ES2 at 7.35.

TBH, highlights are the best way of watching an ITT usually but this one I'd like to have seen live.


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

rich p said:


> Bollix! It's on ES2 at 7.35.
> 
> TBH, highlights are the best way of watching an ITT usually but this one I'd like to have seen live.




You can watch it live. It's on ITV4 at 14:45.


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## wakou (29 Aug 2011)

Hi folks, could you comment please on my posts here re Vuelta coverage on ITV4 : https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

woohoo said:


> You can watch it live. It's on ITV4 at 14:45.





ITV, hmmm, it'll be a first but I'll give it a go.


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

Not looking good so far!

_taken the race by the scruff of the hands_ Dowsett

_Bruce Agin - _Rendell, a new Aussie rider?


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

**** me, will the ads never finish?


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## wakou (29 Aug 2011)

Painful innit? If you have a PVR I put mine on pause for 30 mins and scoot past the ads.


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## wakou (29 Aug 2011)

What time is Wiggins off?


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## andrew_s (29 Aug 2011)

15:20

Official ticker:
http://www.lavuelta....crono.html?e=10

Froome has just started, Martin next


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

wakou said:


> Painful innit? If you have a PVR I put mine on pause for 30 mins and scoot past the ads.




I have! Cheers


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

Wiggins is up one second at the first time check.


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## Keith Oates (29 Aug 2011)

Nibali has lost 33 to Wiggins at the first time split, that is good news if he can keep going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

Wiggins is down a few seconds on the fastest so far (Tony Martin) at the second time check. 

(The timing of theses advert breaks could be better!)


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## Keith Oates (29 Aug 2011)

He's 19 secs down on Martin at the 30 KM mark but still well up on all the others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

Wiggins has finished at +82 seconds on Tony Martin and is in 3rd place on the stage (so far but it will probably stay that way).


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## Keith Oates (29 Aug 2011)

1.22 down on Martin but Froome came in 23 secs ahead of him so will be leading Wiggins in the GC tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will Sky change their leader for the GC now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (29 Aug 2011)

Froome in red tonight?!


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## woohoo (29 Aug 2011)

Froome is 1st on GC, Wiggins is 3rd at the end of the stage.


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## Crackle (29 Aug 2011)

It's all very close at the top. Fuglsgang is my pick of danger men there. What a ride by Froome though. So what happens now I wonder.


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## Keith Oates (29 Aug 2011)

Rest day tomorrow and they have all earned it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raindog (29 Aug 2011)

Crackle said:


> What a ride by Froome though. So what happens now I wonder.


The big question. It's going to be very, very interesting to see how this unfolds.


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## rich p (29 Aug 2011)

raindog said:


> The big question. It's going to be very, very interesting to see how this unfolds.




Indeed. They'll see what pans out on the road I expect, a la Van de Velde when Wiggo took over at Garmin. I imagine that they'll work for together and take a raincheck.


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## Paul_L (29 Aug 2011)

Lofkvist and Possoni will now have to ride at the front and hopefully Froome and Brad will work with each other, and the best man on the road will assume leadership.


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## montage (29 Aug 2011)

Paul_L said:


> Lofkvist and Possoni will now have to ride at the front and hopefully Froome and Brad will work with each other, and the best man on the road will assume leadership.




Not seen much of Lofvist so far... I reckon Bradley will still be the leader, but he only has an 11 second lead over Nibali which is slim to say the least


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## Paul_L (29 Aug 2011)

montage said:


> Not seen much of Lofvist so far... I reckon Bradley will still be the leader, but he only has an 11 second lead over Nibali which is slim to say the least



Hopefully they've been sitting in the bunch saving energy in the expection that this would happen and therefore they will be needed in week 2


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## Keith Oates (29 Aug 2011)

We will see how things go on Wednesday for stage 11, it looks to be a very hard climb to the finish line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fletch456 (30 Aug 2011)

Got to say it. This Vuelta's a belt-a!

And it sure is!


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## wildjetskier (30 Aug 2011)

Being Kenyan myself what an achievement by Froome and for cycling in general especially in Africa, seems a modest guy as well
Froome leads the general classification by 12 seconds, with Leopard Trek's Jakob Fuglsang in second and Wiggins well-placed in third, a further eight seconds back.


"I wasn't really expecting that," Froome said. "I was just trying to stay in contention and be there along with Bradley Wiggins, the team leader. I just had a fantastic day and somehow I've ended up in the leader's jersey."

Even Cavendish tweeted 

Incredible ride by 2 of the Worlds nicest guys today in #vuelta. 


Come on you Brits


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## frank9755 (30 Aug 2011)

Just watched the TT now. I recorded a week's worth of this while I was away and have been catching up over the weekend, and what a twist at the end.

It's an excellent race. Seems much more open than the Tour and the climbs seem a lot steeper. Add in the temperatures and it must be tough on the riders.

Great couple of days for Wiggins but can he last three weeks given his antibiotics and the way he tired in the TT. 

He may not have been the fastest on the TT, but his position and technique were a joy to watch.

Frank 
PS I decided to buy a bike because Wiggins came into the shop during my fitting!


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## BrumJim (31 Aug 2011)

Did I just read that right? Bradley Wiggins in the red jersey?


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## beastie (31 Aug 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Wiggins only lost 42 seconds in the TTT, that is highly unlikely to effect his GC position at the end of a three week tour.


What he would give for 42 seconds more right now.


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## raindog (31 Aug 2011)

Just posted on another forum that without that stupid Sky TTT crap Brad would now have a decent cushion over Nibali. Oh well, still a long way to go in this race.


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## rich p (31 Aug 2011)

Great stuff Wiggo. 

The meaning of life - 42


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## Keith Oates (31 Aug 2011)

Well I was one of he doubters regarding Wiggins and thought he would not make it in the leading ten on the GC. I'm so happy to say that I was wrong and he is doing much better then I thought he would, even if he doesn't make the podium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rockyraccoon (31 Aug 2011)

EuroSport is not broadcasting anymore. Does anyway know why?


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## rich p (31 Aug 2011)

User14044raccoon said:


> EuroSport is not broadcasting anymore. Does anyway know why?




What makes you say that? They flagged up tomorrow's stage at the end of today's.


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## Paul_L (31 Aug 2011)

great ride by Brad today. Looked composed all the way up the final climb. Hat's off to Froome and Possoni for their work at the front.


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## rockyraccoon (31 Aug 2011)

rich p said:


> What makes you say that? They flagged up tomorrow's stage at the end of today's.







I usually record the live stages to watch at night. The Sky TV Guide is showing Live US Open Tennis for the rest of this week

Edited: just realised.. there are 3 EuroSport channels (1, 2 and HD). 

I was talking about HD channel


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## beastie (31 Aug 2011)

User14044raccoon said:


> EuroSport is not broadcasting anymore. Does anyway know why?


Yeh. It's on @ 3 pm on Eurosport 2.


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## raindog (1 Sep 2011)

Another superb win for Sagan - beast of a rider.


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## rich p (1 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Another superb win for Sagan - beast of a rider.




He can win most finishes apart from mountain tops. Impressive rider.


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## lukesdad (1 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> He can win most finishes apart from mountain tops. Impressive rider.




I hear he has a look-alike mashing it up around the south downs. Only, this one spends far too much time in the company of a certain Mr Harvey


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## rich p (1 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> I hear he has a look-alike mashing it up around the south downs. Only, this one spends far too much time in the company of a certain Mr Harvey




 I owe it all to my welsh-exiled coach


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## lukesdad (1 Sep 2011)

Claudine does have a lot to answer for then !


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## VamP (2 Sep 2011)

Six riders separarted by 36 seconds  

Would it be an understatement to say that this one is wide open?


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## rich p (2 Sep 2011)

Odd that the GCers let Kessiakoff and Mollema get 5 seconds on the run in and Mollema get another 7 seconds on the first sprint. May not be crucial but it pushes Nibali down to 4th.

Today has a big climb in the middle but a 60km stretch to the finish. Maybe a breakaway day with the GC on hold?


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## Crackle (2 Sep 2011)

I have to give up with ITV4. I had no clue what was happening today, it really was poor. Back to the crappy internet pictures from Eurosport and decent commentary


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## woohoo (2 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> I have to give up with ITV4. *I had no clue what was happening today*, it really was poor. Back to the crappy internet pictures from Eurosport and decent commentary


They said it was due to thunderstorms elsewhere interfering with the transmissions from the helicopter. Don't know if Eurosport used the same feed and were also affected but I've read comments from other European e.g. Danish viewers saying the same thing about the TV coverage/quality: so the problem is not confined to ITV4.

PS The quality got better later on.


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## Crackle (2 Sep 2011)

woohoo said:


> They said it was due to thunderstorms elsewhere interfering with the transmissions from the helicopter. Don't know if Eurosport used the same feed and were also affected but I've read comments from other European e.g. Danish viewers saying the same thing about the TV coverage/quality: so the problem is not confined to ITV4.
> 
> PS The quality got better later on.




No, it was more the commentary which did nothing to clarify the poor pictures today. For instance, the Nibali chase I was clueless on. It's not just today either, I've been persevering but I think I'll give up now.


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## crisscross (2 Sep 2011)

Are ITV4 buying in someone elses pix and commentary?

The Antipodian bloke is doing my head in!


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## woohoo (2 Sep 2011)

crisscross said:


> Are ITV4 buying in someone elses pix and commentary?
> 
> The Antipodian bloke is doing my head in!



They always buy in TV coverage. You don't think that ITV4 have their own TV motorbikes and helicopters do you?

... and on the TdF, the Phil and Paul commentary in bought in. It is syndicated all over the world including to the"Antipodes" where, no doubt, the locals whinge about the terrible accents of the commentary team


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## Smokin Joe (3 Sep 2011)

That was INCREDIBLE! 

What a ride by Wiggo and Froome, I was on the edge of my seat for the last half hour.


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## Flying_Monkey (3 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> That was INCREDIBLE!
> 
> What a ride by Wiggo and Froome, I was on the edge of my seat for the last half hour.



It's the first stage I've had the chance to watch live and it was fantastic. Almost everyone except Moelema lost big time to the pair of them. Great pressure riding again. They still have to hang in there tomorrow though, and it's going to be a vicious stage.


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## rich p (3 Sep 2011)

Phew, great ride by Froome and Wiggo. He was well ****ed at the end.

I seem to remember, possibly falsely, that Cobo was a bit dubious during the Ricco years? Anyone remember that?


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## raindog (3 Sep 2011)

Cobo a real danger now - only 55 down on general.
And it ain't over yet with the Angryglue climb tomorrow, and Nibali could pull that time back on one descent if he's feeling good.

What a fighter Brad is though, and it's not as if he just sits on Froome's wheel - he took some long turns himself up front to pull that group up there.


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## rich p (3 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Cobo a real danger now - only 55 down on general.
> And it ain't over yet with the Angryglue climb tomorrow, and Nibali could pull that time back on one descent if he's feeling good.
> 
> What a fighter Brad is though, and it's not as if he just sits on Froome's wheel - he took some long turns himself up front to pull that group up there.




Angryglue! Very good


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## Crackle (3 Sep 2011)

I've been biting my lip about Wiggo but you have to acknowledge today's ride, fantastic. Tomorrow could change everything though, so I'll keep biting my lip.


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## wildjetskier (3 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> Phew, great ride by Froome and Wiggo. He was well ****ed at the end.



Certainly was Froome looked a bit fresher, but what a ride Brilliant.

Wiggins is now 11/10 odds... Brad was 16/1 last week
Mollema is 11/4
Cobo is 11/2

Interesting.......


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## Kenny Gray (3 Sep 2011)

Got him at 18/1 before it started heres hopeing. Great ride by the Sky boys.


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## iLB (3 Sep 2011)

Watching the Brad and Chris show smash it to pieces was the perfect antidote to mowing the lawn this afternoon (yawwwwn), fantastic to watch.

According to Cath Wiggins on twitter neither ITV or brit eurosport are showing tomorrow's stage?! Say it ain't so...


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## Smokin Joe (3 Sep 2011)

iLB said:


> Watching the Brad and Chris show smash it to pieces was the perfect antidote to mowing the lawn this afternoon (yawwwwn), fantastic to watch.
> 
> *According to Cath Wiggins on twitter neither ITV or brit eurosport are showing tomorrow's stage?! Say it ain't so...*


It's live on the red button - with no ad break every 45 seconds


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## Kenny Gray (3 Sep 2011)

Sorry talkin sh#@e was 12/1 still take it.


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## montage (3 Sep 2011)

I wonder what Froome will be thinking.... all he needs is 8 seconds..


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## Flying_Monkey (4 Sep 2011)

montage said:


> I wonder what Froome will be thinking.... all he needs is 8 seconds..



I'm guessing that is Brad cracks badly and he's okay then he will be allowed to go for it. The team would still win.


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## montage (4 Sep 2011)

but what if Brad doesn't crack, and Froome has the legs to take some time..... I doubt he would, but if he could, who would blame him?


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## fossyant (4 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's live on the red button - with no ad break every 45 seconds



If you don't have sky/freesat then the red button doesn't work -so watch on line at ITV.com. Otherwise find another web stream from the likes of Cyclingfans.com

ITV4 aren't broadcasting on TV on the 4th Sept (although there will be an extended highlights).


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## iLB (4 Sep 2011)

montage said:


> but what if Brad doesn't crack, and Froome has the legs to take some time..... I doubt he would, but if he could, who would blame him?



it wouldn't be very sporting to stab your team leader in the back though would it, wouldn't go down well with team management if he's looking for a new contract at sky!


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Sep 2011)

iLB said:


> it wouldn't be very sporting to stab your team leader in the back though would it, wouldn't go down well with team management if he's looking for a new contract at sky!


Win the Veulta and you don't have to worry about your next contract, you'll be fending the teams off.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Win the Veulta and you don't have to worry about your next contract, you'll be fending the teams off.



But none of your future team mates would ever trust you completely if you did that. You'd have to be supremely talented and sure of being able to win yourself, and while Froome is good, he's not that good.


----------



## Pottsy (4 Sep 2011)

A tip if you're using the ITV website to watch it today, it asks you to register with an email address but you can avoid getting spammed to death by just making one up. Lance.Armstrongblowsgoats@yahoo.com worked nicely for me.


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> But none of your future team mates would ever trust you completely if you did that. You'd have to be supremely talented and sure of being able to win yourself, and while Froome is good, he's not that good.


True, but if you're recruited to target GT wins then a team will be built round you with that in mind. Having said that, I don't think Froome will try to steal a march on Wiggins. He's still young and must realise that he's still on a learning curve and has plenty of time.


----------



## Noodley (4 Sep 2011)

I cannae believe ITV have decided to show British Touring Cars and not the Vuelta today...!!!!


----------



## brockers (4 Sep 2011)

Spanish feed here for those what can't be doing with signing up to ITV


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

brockers said:


> Spanish feed here for those what can't be doing with signing up to ITV




the stream om itv is okay so far.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

apart from Matt Rendell being the most boring man ever


----------



## accountantpete (4 Sep 2011)

Of course with this being the most important day of the race and with ITV being ITV, there is no live ITV coverage on terrestial TV.

Oh my fiddledidee! were my words upon discovering this.

So hooked up the Eurosport feed off the other dish.


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Sep 2011)

Noodley said:


> I cannae believe ITV have decided to show British Touring Cars and not the Vuelta today...!!!!


To be fair to ITV they have been covering the BTCC for a few years now and it has a comparatively large following. At least we get the highlights tonight.


----------



## beastie (4 Sep 2011)

accountantpete said:


> Of course with this being the most important day of the race and with ITV being ITV, there is no live ITV coverage on terrestial TV.
> 
> Oh my fiddledidee! were my words upon discovering this.
> 
> So hooked up the Eurosport feed off the other dish.



which eurosport feed?

I can't get it on Sky


----------



## longers (4 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> the stream om itv is okay so far.



It's gone tits up for me in the last five minutes. Is it because they've sussed out jamsandwich@nicecupoftea.com wasn't a valid email address or has it gone for everyone else?


----------



## raindog (4 Sep 2011)

this one's perfect
http://sports-livez.com/channel/ch-6.php


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

steephill.tv and foloow the links


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

Cobo has a bit - hang on Wiggo


----------



## accountantpete (4 Sep 2011)

Cobo puts 50s into Froome and 80s into Wiggins - I think Sky will have weigh up whether to support Froome in the final week.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

bollix


----------



## Aperitif (4 Sep 2011)

A bit steep that slope, Eh? Sometimes, it's tiring just to watch the angle of the bikes as they ascend, and Cobo tore a big chunk of bread from Bradley's loaf. Froome did well though, and he seemed to be trying to pull Wiggins along when it got tougher...


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2011)

Great ride by Cobo, bitterly disappointed to see Wiggins crack but there's still a week left and third and second in a Grand Tour by brits, who'd have thought it a few years ago. Let's hope they stay there and put in a few attacks to make next week exciting.


----------



## beastie (4 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Wiggins only lost 42 seconds in the TTT, that is highly unlikely to effect his GC position at the end of a three week tour.




I'm not pickin on you but do ya think they would like those 42 seconds more or less now!?


----------



## beastie (4 Sep 2011)

beastie said:


> I'm not pickin on you but do ya think they would like those 42 seconds more or less now!?



I wonder if Froome was on the limit all the way or if he could have left Wiggo earlier?

Either way Sky must attack for sprint bonuses and win bonuses now. 20 secs is only one stage win. Cmon Froome and Wiggins.


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Sep 2011)

beastie said:


> I'm not pickin on you but do ya think they would like those 42 seconds more or less now!?


I called that well, didn't I?


----------



## raindog (4 Sep 2011)

beastie said:


> I'm not pickin on you but do ya think they would like those 42 seconds more or less now!?


I knew that would come back and bite Joe on the arse.





Cobo flew up there - didn't even look knackered in the interview.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> I knew that would come back and bite Joe on the arse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unbelievable ride by Cobo!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Sep 2011)

Cobo did look very fresh, didn't he?

Anyway, I don't think Froome had much more left than Wiggins; they were both all over the place on that final steep section just before the cameraman went down...

Sky are going to have to try something in this last week, but there aren't many opportunities.


----------



## yello (4 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Cobo flew up there - *didn't even look knackered in the interview*.



That's exactly what my mum said! She's highly suspicious given how hard others were finding it!!

The coverage I saw seemed to loose Wiggins, Froome et al with 6km to go. I saw Wiggins falling off the back but was having to try and translate from the Dutch/Flemish commentators as to what was going on. I think I saw a camera hit the deck and wondered if that was the cause.


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> I called that well, didn't I?



one for the 'which idiot' thread..


----------



## crisscross (4 Sep 2011)

New to all of this!

Chuffed that the Sky team are still up there in the top 3 - considering Wiggo was never a great climber that's a tremendous effort although when he flies past us with a little wave and smile whilst going over Rivington when we need oxygen masks you'd think he was the king of the mountains.

Is next week as bumpy or do things level out a little for the last week?

Do the same unwritten rules as the TDF last stage apply - where the lead isn't contested on the final day?

Who is your money on now?


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2011)

yello said:


> That's exactly what my mum said! She's highly suspicious given how hard others were finding it!!




I have to agree with you and Raindog. In the cold post stage light and after a bit of digging, Cobo doesn't look as sweet as his win appears. How good is the testing at the Vuelta?


----------



## raindog (4 Sep 2011)

Well, if he's clean - and we have to give him the benefit of the doubt - then that was a classic ride.

The state our two Sky guys were in on that steepest part made them look all too human. I've got to say, given the way Brad dropped Evans in the Dauphiné, I now believe he would've won the Tour without his crash.


----------



## iLB (4 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> I have to agree with you and Raindog. In the cold post stage light and after a bit of digging, Cobo doesn't look as sweet as his win appears. How good is the testing at the Vuelta?



what kind of digging?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (4 Sep 2011)

iLB said:


> what kind of digging?



He was a member of the 2008 Saunier-Duval squad that was withdrawn from racing after several positive tests. Some allege that it was only this that saved Cobo from testing positive at the time. The seasons since then he was entirely useless and hardly finished a race. Suddenly in 2011 he come back and looks like winning a GT. It is a bit... interesting.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2011)

iLB said:


> what kind of digging?



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/jul/18/tourdefrance.cycling
_The rumours and innuendo now surround Ricco's team, Saunier Duval, whose climbers, Leonardo Piepoli and Juan José Cobo, placed first and second at the summit finish of Hautacam on Monday. Asked last night if he suspected systematic doping, the Tour director, Christian Prudhomme, said: "I was pretty disturbed when I saw the superiority of two riders from the same team on the stage to Hautacam. Like the rest of you were, I'm sure."

_Smoke/fire scenario?


----------



## iLB (4 Sep 2011)

Would it be foolish to hope he did it clean? It certainly was a monster effort, his speed/tempo never seemed to deviate with the gradient and he had a lot left to kick on in the final kilometre.


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Sep 2011)

iLB said:


> Would it be foolish to hope he did it clean? It certainly was a monster effort, his speed/tempo never seemed to deviate with the gradient and he had a lot left to kick on in the final kilometre.



Would it be mean-minded to hope he wasn't, get's caught, kicked out and Brad wins?

Just sayin', that's all.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> Phew, great ride by Froome and Wiggo. He was well ****ed at the end.
> 
> I seem to remember, possibly falsely, that Cobo was a bit dubious during the Ricco years? Anyone remember that?




As I thought yesterday - thanks for the research SJ


----------



## tigger (4 Sep 2011)

Smokin Joe said:


> Would it be mean-minded to hope he wasn't, get's caught, kicked out and Brad wins?
> 
> Just sayin', that's all.



I was just thinking the same thing...


----------



## raindog (4 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> I have to agree with you and Raindog. In the cold post stage light and after a bit of digging, Cobo doesn't look as sweet as his win appears. How good is the testing at the Vuelta?


Wasn't it Mosquera who got done for a masking agent in last year's race after an amazing perf and running Nibs close for the GC?


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Wasn't it Mosquera who got done for a masking agent in last year's race after an amazing perf and running Nibs close for the GC?



Got done!!!!

Still to get done RD!

You got to love the Spanish fed


----------



## Keith Oates (5 Sep 2011)

The main thing for me is that Froome and Wiggins are both now in good positions and have a chance of a podium place. This is better than I thought possible when the race started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wildjetskier (5 Sep 2011)

Keith Oates said:


> The main thing for me is that Froome and Wiggins are both now in good positions and have a chance of a podium place. This is better than I thought possible when the race started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I agree and Paddy Power have Cobo favourite Froome 2nd favourite at 5/1 (worth a punt me thinks) and Wiggins back from 11/10 to 15/1


----------



## raindog (5 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> Got done!!!!
> 
> Still to get done RD!
> 
> You got to love the Spanish fed


Christ you're right - just googled it and he's still in second place for last year's race. 
Surely the UCI deals with testing for the 3 GTs?

Got some info on yesterday's gearing.
Wiggins 38x32
Froome and Mollema 36x28
Cobo 34x32
which probably partly explains why Froome and Wiggins almost came to a standstill at one point.


----------



## yello (5 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Wiggins 38x32



That explains a bit. So maybe a bit of a mistake on gear selection back at the office. Wiggins was clearly struggling on the steeper stuff. 

On the other hand Cobbo (on 34x32) did look comparatively relaxed and fresh (on other forums it seems some are convinced he had some cow in his bidons on that basis alone) but there was a big difference in gearing so I guess that _might_ explain it.


----------



## lukesdad (5 Sep 2011)

When i watched the highlights last nite, I thought Sky had made a mistake with the gearing.


----------



## McrJ64 (5 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> When i watched the highlights last nite, I thought Sky had made a mistake with the gearing.




I noticed that Wiggins was the only one still in his saddle, even when he looked like stalling. Would a dodgy collar bone explain this? It's only 8 weeks since it was broken.


----------



## raindog (5 Sep 2011)

McrJ64 said:


> I noticed that Wiggins was the only one still in his saddle, even when he looked like stalling. Would a dodgy collar bone explain this?


Doubt it. Shouldn't think he'd be even starting a three week GT if he couldn't stand up out of the saddle.


----------



## beastie (5 Sep 2011)

McrJ64 said:


> I noticed that Wiggins was the only one still in his saddle, even when he looked like stalling. Would a dodgy collar bone explain this? It's only 8 weeks since it was broken.


He has been out the saddle plenty, this time I think he was jiggered, or as Sean Kelly liked to say "coooked".


----------



## tigger (5 Sep 2011)

Its difficult to stay balanced when its that steep, sit too far back and the front wheel lifts, get out of the saddle and rear looses traction. The collar bone might not have helped, I broke mine 6 weeks ago and this weekend was the first time out, it felt pretty good, I only felt it when I was out of the saddle and that was on very easy slopes. So maybe that was a factor for Wiggo.

Great rides by Froome and Wiggo either way. Here's hoping for some crazy breakaway tactics and cross winds!


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2011)

You think Nibali is thinking the same as us:-

_Nibali admitted that he was surprised by Cobo’s display on the Angliru, which leaves him in the overall lead with just six stages to go. “Yes, he hasn’t ridden like that since the Tour stage at Hautacam in 2008,” Nibali said. On that occasion, Cobo finished in second place, just behind Saunier Duval teammate Leonardo Piepoli, who subsequently tested positive for CERA.

_Quite from Cycling News.


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> You think Nibali is thinking the same as us:-
> 
> _Nibali admitted that he was surprised by Cobo’s display on the Angliru, which leaves him in the overall lead with just six stages to go. “Yes, he hasn’t ridden like that since the Tour stage at Hautacam in 2008,” Nibali said. On that occasion, Cobo finished in second place, just behind Saunier Duval teammate Leonardo Piepoli, who subsequently tested positive for CERA.
> 
> _Quite from Cycling News.




Quote so, Crax!

What always amazes me when riders like Ricco, Vino, Piepoli, Sella, Basso etc do these 'unbelievable' rides that they don't even pretend to make it look like hard work. If I was doped up enough to ride away from everyone else I'd at least grimace and gurn a bit.


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2011)

It's early, my fingers got muxed ip. 

Edit: Can't even type that right


----------



## raindog (6 Sep 2011)

I saw that Nibs quote too. And as we've already hinted, Cobo looked so fresh at the finish, like he'd been on a club run, when everyone else was completely wasted at the end. Oh well, we either like it or lump it, eh?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> I saw that Nibs quote too. And as we've already hinted, Cobo looked so fresh at the finish, like he'd been on a club run, when everyone else was completely wasted at the end. Oh well, we either like it or lump it, eh?



I think the Vuelta is now the only GT where you can get away with this. The thing is that everyone knows the Spanish scene is dodgy - how can they continue to play by different rules than everyone else?


----------



## lukesdad (6 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I think the Vuelta is now the only GT where you can get away with this. The thing is that everyone knows the Spanish scene is dodgy - how can they continue to play by different rules than everyone else?




Like throwing a camera bike to the floor in front of the wiggo froome group !


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Sep 2011)

You know, I've been looking in more detail at the final few stages, and I am not at all sure that Cobo has this sewn up after all. All of the stages with the exception of today and the final day, have the potential for serious attacks to be launched, and if Wiggins or Froome or Moelema have enough left, have the right support and team tactical awareness, any one of them could take Cobo (assuming he isn't artificially aided) - particularly because the Vuelta has time bonuses at the finish, so a twenty second lead on the day is effectively doubled. I reckon stage 17 and stage 20 offer the most opportunities. Mind you, they could all also lose more time to Cobo if he really is unstoppable shape... 

This ain't over yet.


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2011)

They were just talking about the time bonuses. Not sure how I feel about time bonuses. You could argue they animate the race but then the first three will be the first three by dint of wanting to anyway and they do skew it. Without them, Froome would be first, Cobo, then Wiggins.


----------



## martint235 (6 Sep 2011)

Is it just me having problems with itv.com today? I have to refresh the screen everytime there's an ad break otherwise it just doesn't restart.


----------



## raindog (6 Sep 2011)

That finish was rediculous - should've been barriers on that roundabout.


----------



## accountantpete (6 Sep 2011)

Fantastic finish today - roundabout 500yds from finish with both sides left open but only one side goes to the finish!

You can guess what happened!


----------



## lukesdad (6 Sep 2011)

Cobo s gained time ? Have to wait for official times.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> Cobo s gained time ? Have to wait for official times.



Yeah, about 4 seconds on Froome and 7 on Wiggins.


----------



## 2Loose (6 Sep 2011)

Grr, my stream cut out (Damn Virgin\ITV4) during the highlights and I missed the roundabout finish


----------



## lukesdad (6 Sep 2011)

That verged on the comical .


----------



## Flying_Monkey (6 Sep 2011)

User said:


> it really pissss me off all this talk of drugs...so what, their all at it....if wiggins had flown up that hill, then rode back to the start and did it all again, nobody would have mentioned drugs, when found quilty, then we can say cheating basstard, untill then, lets say great ride, great race, great la vuelta a espana...........



No, they are not 'all at it' or at least not so blatantly as in the past. If you knew more about the recent history of cycling, you'd know exactly why Cobo is regarded with more than a little suspicion. But that's all it is - nobody is actually saying what you are claiming. Wiggins has had his doubters too, such that he actually published his biological passport readings openly, and no doubt Froome's rise is causing some people some concern, though if you look at his progression, it looks fairly normal.


----------



## tigger (6 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You know, I've been looking in more detail at the final few stages, and I am not at all sure that Cobo has this sewn up after all. All of the stages with the exception of today and the final day, have the potential for serious attacks to be launched, and if Wiggins or Froome or Moelema have enough left, have the right support and team tactical awareness, any one of them could take Cobo (assuming he isn't artificially aided) - particularly because the Vuelta has time bonuses at the finish, so a twenty second lead on the day is effectively doubled. I reckon stage 17 and stage 20 offer the most opportunities. Mind you, they could all also lose more time to Cobo if he really is unstoppable shape...
> 
> This ain't over yet.



Yeah me too. Friggins could strike again... or should I say Froogins now?


----------



## Bodie (7 Sep 2011)

Jill Douglas does a waaaay better job as a presenter than Ned does, however the whole presentation has improved since the first few days.

I was hoping Wiggins would win as that would be an incentive for them to show it again next year and maybe even spend a little more on it.

Anyway, it's better than nothing as I don't have Eurosport.

I should think that Cobo would be able to defend that lead now, his team look fairly strong still and apart from Wiggins and Froom Sky don't seem to have a lot of firepower left. One of the two is going to have to sacrifice himself tomorrow if they are going to take some time and, as we saw with the sulk bros v Evans in the tour, even a long break from one of them may not be enough.

Another good Vuelta though.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Sep 2011)

Lets cut Cobo some slack shall we ? He s got 2 grand tour winners in the team yet he s the designated leader. He was allways going to be their danger man. Menchov and Sastre have probably got more nonce about winning a 3 week tour than the whole of the sky setup or any other team in the Vuelta.

This has been the Geox target all season after no invite to the TDF, and why would nt be ? 2 top spanish riders and a twice past winner. Are you all really that surprised or is it just sour grapes or skeletons in the closset.

Maybe Cobo was as peeved about the Saunier Duval episode as others maybe not.
Maybe he does dope maybe not but untill somethings proved..... Im actually more suspicous of Froome myself but hey ho. He s a brit and not one of these dirty spaniards isn t he.

Cobo has lightly raced this year and has prepared solely for this race.

Cheer up lads Wiggo or Froome could still do it, and Cobo would drift into the mists of time.


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

I'm afraid I'll stay cycnical if you don't mind. I can just remember watching racing pre EPO days and this years tour was the first racing I've seen in a decade or more which reminded me of it. I'm still of the Boardman view. If it looks unbelievable it probably is. If I see Cobo suffering or having a bad day, I'll think differently. Wiggins and Froome are both riding within the bounds of credibility, maybe Cobo is too, we'll see.

In the meantime, today and tomorrow are two interesting stages. I hope Sky take it up.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Sep 2011)

Froome s TT performance looked unbelievable ?

After the days before efforts, to get to within nearly a minute of martin who d been resting up solely for that stage. He s good but he ain t that good ! 

Maybe he s been training at alittude in Kenya or there is something in the water


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

Froome was good in the past, he's still developing. Look at his Palmares, it shows the promise he's now fulfilling. So far this just looks like progression.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Froome was good in the past, he's still developing. Look at his Palmares, it shows the promise he's now fulfilling. So far this just looks like progression.




...and only lightly raced this year ? As many of the Geox squad have. Wiggo really hasnt done much since the Dauphine either. Is it really surprising the top of the leader looks as it does ?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> ...and only lightly raced this year ? As many of the Geox squad have. Wiggo really hasnt done much since the Dauphine either. Is it really surprising the top of the leader looks as it does ?



Not at all. However, there was something about the utter ease with which Cobo danced away from the rest that just reminded me of similarly unbelievable performances past. Nothing to do with who he overtook at the top. I'd love to think it was great climbing, in fact as a climber myself there's nothing I'd like better, but I just find it hard it somewhat suspicious.


----------



## Smokin Joe (7 Sep 2011)

User said:


> _
> 
> _maybe, maybe not,...... drugs in sport don't really bother me but I believe we'd have to go back to before the 1940's to find sportsmen/women totally drug free......
> _
> _


You're joking, right?

Doping was endemic in cycling when the first TdF was just a gleam in someone's eye.


----------



## rockyraccoon (7 Sep 2011)

Doesn't Cobo know well that area? Also he rode a 34×32, didn't he?




while everyone else looked to be using 34×28. 

better choice of gears!?


----------



## Moss (7 Sep 2011)

I'd like to think Wiggo could win, but don't think he's fully recovered his fitness from the Tour De France crash out!


----------



## HLaB (7 Sep 2011)

Did I here the commentator right ? the officials took Froome's sprint seconds from him. Plus getting caught the wrong side of a split round that dodgy roundabout; it all sounds very dodgy indeed.


----------



## raindog (7 Sep 2011)

A pal has just this minute phoned me from work - he's reading today's l'Equipe. There's a small article on the mayhem at the roundabout - apparently the guy who was supposed to direct the cars to the right and the riders to the left, got bored and wandered off before the peloton arrived. Soon after, a race official found him sitting in a bar having a drink and some tapas.


----------



## martint235 (7 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> A pal has just this minute phoned me from work - he's reading today's l'Equipe. There's a small article on the mayhem at the roundabout - apparently the guy who was supposed to direct the cars to the right and the riders to the left, got bored and wandered off before the peloton arrived. Soon after, a race official found him sitting in a bar having a drink and some tapas.



You've got to love the Spanish. It'd never happen here. It's an IMPORTANT job and it's more than my jobs worth not to do it!!


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

WHAT, a finish!


----------



## HLaB (7 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> WHAT, a finish!



+1!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Sep 2011)

Amazing... this really is going to come down to the wire every day now, isn't it?


----------



## HLaB (7 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Amazing... this really is going to come down to the wire every day now, isn't it?



The ITV4 commentators are saying its all over, but with 4 stages to go ?


----------



## raindog (7 Sep 2011)

Worrabout THAT then?




The next few days are going to be explosive. Froomey - what a fighter. Cobo was NOT expecting that.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (7 Sep 2011)

HLaB said:


> The ITV4 commentators are saying its all over, but with 4 stages to go ?



They know nothing. There are now just 13 seconds between the top two. With the way the time bonuses work and intermediate sprints, these are going to be an incredibly nervous last few days with both Sky and Geox trying to cover everything, all the time. There are so many chances for a slip that allows a surgical attack to gain just a second or two (like today), that with bonus times can turn in to 10 seconds or more and then... who knows?

Sky have clearly let Froome off the leash now, and Brad is going to have to help him as best he can, whilst at the same time watching out for Mollema, who is now close enough to take his third place, and climbing better too.


----------



## lukesdad (7 Sep 2011)

Gladiatoral that one.


----------



## wildjetskier (7 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> Gladiatoral that one.



Bloody brilliant - made me hairs stand up (on my arm) excellent stuff


----------



## raindog (7 Sep 2011)

tweet from Brad


"Chris Froome going from strength to strength, Superb. And all that after people shouting at him, "you win we kill you", unbelievable"


[font="'Lucida Grande"]
[/font]


----------



## oldroadman (7 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> *They know nothing*. There are now just 13 seconds between the top two. With the way the time bonuses work and intermediate sprints, these are going to be an incredibly nervous last few days with both Sky and Geox trying to cover everything, all the time. There are so many chances for a slip that allows a surgical attack to gain just a second or two (like today), that with bonus times can turn in to 10 seconds or more and then... who knows?
> 
> Sky have clearly let Froome off the leash now, and Brad is going to have to help him as best he can, whilst at the same time watching out for Mollema, who is now close enough to take his third place, and climbing better too.



Certainly agree with that, the ITV4 commentators are hopeless. They even make Liggett and Sherwen look great. If you can possibly manage it, Eurosport is the one. Harmon and Kelly, excelllent and passionate commentary from someone who loves the sport, and analysis from a man who knows what it's like at the top.


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

Taking a step back: When was the last British mountain top winner in a grand tour. When, if ever, did we hold two positions on the podium with a chance still of the top place. It's astonishing really. Even 5 years ago I never thought to see British riders dominating racing news headlines.


----------



## Rob500 (7 Sep 2011)

User14044raccoon said:


> Also he rode a *34×32*, didn't he?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The finish today was fantastic. 

Hi Rocky. What does 34x32 etc mean?


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## HLaB (7 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Taking a step back: When was the last British mountain top winner in a grand tour. When, if ever, did we hold two positions on the podium with a chance still of the top place. It's astonishing really. Even 5 years ago I never thought to see British riders dominating racing news headlines.



I dont know for sure but ITV4 said, it was Robert Millar in 1989.


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## raindog (7 Sep 2011)

Rob500 said:


> The finish today was fantastic.
> 
> Hi Rocky. What does 34x32 etc mean?


34 teeth on the smallest chainring and 32 teeth on the largest sprocket.
Brad was on 38x32.


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## Keith Oates (7 Sep 2011)

Froome is really giving all he's got and to take that win was great. Now we just have to hope that he and Wiggins can both be on the podium with one of them on the top step!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## montage (7 Sep 2011)

oh for those 43 seconds lost in the TTT...


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## iLB (7 Sep 2011)

what sort of position do we think this leaves Brad in regarding future tdf's? arguably he wouldn't be anywhere near where he is on GC without considerable help from Froome, who is now pulling away from him at will on the tougher climbs, surely leaving some question marks over his leadership in future. Not forgetting of course the broken collar bone, but it's hard to know how much fitness and endurance Wiggins has lost whilst recovering from the injury.


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## montage (7 Sep 2011)

I think Wiggins will have another shot at the TDF in 2012 as leader and Froome will go for the Vuelta/Giro, and then a reverse next in 2013. Froome still has a few years until he hits his peak, whereas Wiggins must be more or less there. Don't forget the signing of Richie Port who is arguably good enough to be a GC contender - and remember how impressive Uran was in the TDF - I don't think Bradley will be short of domestiques in the mountains if Froome targets another race.

However...I can't see anybody beating team Radioshack-Nissan-Trek next year, too many superstars


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## iLB (7 Sep 2011)

what about team Buys Mighty Cyclists, err BMC?


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Sep 2011)

montage said:


> However...I can't see anybody beating team Radioshack-Nissan-Trek next year, too many superstars



But too many superstars may be their downfall too.


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## Rob500 (7 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> 34 teeth on the smallest chainring and 32 teeth on the largest sprocket.
> Brad was on 38x32.



Thanks Raindog. Does that mean that the pro cyclists change the chainrings
to suit the Stage? (replacing them I mean, not just moving to the small one)


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## montage (7 Sep 2011)

Who knows!.. but back the to Vuelta....many chances for Froome to take back time do we think?

If Froome does win this Vuelta, there is a good chance it will be the closest GT in history. There look to be a few intermeadiate sprints that he has a good chance of taking should the breakaway be in check.

Also, where has Lofvust been? Yes I understand that he has been doing all the teamwork...but he still should be featuring more, surely?


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## Rob500 (7 Sep 2011)

montage said:


> Who knows!.. but back the to Vuelta....


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## beastie (7 Sep 2011)

Rob500 said:


> Thanks Raindog. Does that mean that the pro cyclists change the chainrings
> to suit the Stage? (replacing them I mean, not just moving to the small one)


That's right. Along with cassettes, wheels, bikes clothes etc.


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## Crackle (7 Sep 2011)

Another excellent report from William Fotheringham in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/sep/07/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-spain


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## Smokin Joe (7 Sep 2011)

montage said:


> oh for those 43 seconds lost in the TTT...


Exactly what I've been saying all along


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## iLB (7 Sep 2011)

probably the most impressive sight from the vuelta though is this...







siccck


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## raindog (8 Sep 2011)

Small vid of Froome after yesterday's stage
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-froome-enjoys-his-first-big-win-at-the-vuelta

he says "We're still not in Madrid yet, so it's all to go for," so the next few days should be interesting.


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## rich p (8 Sep 2011)

Robert Millar is saying that the only day Froome has lost time was the stage after the ITT when he was in red and rode hard to support Wiggins.
A tactical eror, he says, when Froome should have been re-designated leader. Hindsight does have 20/20 vision, as they say.


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## lukesdad (8 Sep 2011)

Interesting today if the pace is high the sprinters will be gone the finnish will be interesting. Its going to be hard for froome to take any seconds back at the sprint points. To many Geox around even if there isn t a break. Deals would have been done, and lets face it I can t see anybody doing a deal with Sky can you ?


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## raindog (8 Sep 2011)

lukesdad said:


> Deals would have been done, and lets face it I can t see anybody doing a deal with Sky can you ?


Well, certainly not any Spanish teams......





It may be a hard day for Geox to control though - it's a right little switchback of a stage, just savage ups and downs. Bring it on.....


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## beastie (8 Sep 2011)

Tomorrow is surely the only chance Sky have left to take time out of Cobo. Will they try and control any breakaways? Surely the best chance for Froome is to attack on the final climb then hope to time trial it down the descent?


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## mr Mag00 (8 Sep 2011)

what happened today?


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## beastie (8 Sep 2011)

Not much


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## raindog (9 Sep 2011)

mr Mag00 said:


> what happened today?


Lampre got a win at last.


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## Keith Oates (10 Sep 2011)

Froome couldn't shake off the wheel sucking Cobo but he did try very hard. Today is probably the last day to try to get the 13 secs gap wiped out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Smokin Joe (10 Sep 2011)

Keith Oates said:


> Froome couldn't shake off the wheel sucking Cobo but he did try very hard. Today is probably the last day to try to get the 13 secs gap wiped out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wheel sucking's a bit harsh Keith, Cobo was legitimately defending his lead.


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## raindog (10 Sep 2011)

Yes, accusing Cobo of wheelsucking is way out of order. He's ridden a great Vuelta.

More attacking today me thinks!!


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## Keith Oates (10 Sep 2011)

I didn't say the wheelsucking was not legal or acceptable but was just indicating how he stayed with Froome.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Sep 2011)

I said last week that this stage was the second most dangerous one of the last week for attacks. I still think so.


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## Dave Davenport (10 Sep 2011)

What would happen if they went into Madrid with only a 2 or 3 second gap?


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## Smokin Joe (10 Sep 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> What would happen if they went into Madrid with only a 2 or 3 second gap?


All hell would break loose.

As I've said about the final stage of Le Tour, the stuff about riders having a gentlemen's agreement not to attack on the last stage is just a myth. The reason the final stage of a GT is run at an easy pace is because they are flat and 99% of the time the leader has a big enough gap to make it virtually impossible to be overhauled on that type of stage.

But if he was within reach the gloves would be off.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Sep 2011)

Oh well, all a bit of an anticlimax today. The pace was generally too high for significant attacks.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Sep 2011)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Oh well, all a bit of an anticlimax today. The pace was generally too high for significant attacks.


Anti-climatic from a British perspective, but quite a decent watch for a flat stage. 

It's been a great race for us, 2nd and 3rd on GC and a new star with what should be a great future ahead. We're in the golden age of British cycling so let's enjoy it. As an Irishman I can tell you it may not last and soon becomes ever more ancient history


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## Willo (10 Sep 2011)

Only saw the last 10km or so. What were Harman and Kelly talking about re Froome making a mistake? Got the impression from their comments that he sprinted to a 'KM to go' kite mistaking it for an intermediate sprint that was actually further down the road?


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## Smokin Joe (10 Sep 2011)

Willo said:


> Only saw the last 10km or so. What were Harman and Kelly talking about re Froome making a mistake? Got the impression from their comments that he sprinted to a 'KM to go' kite mistaking it for an intermediate sprint that was actually further down the road?


That's about it.

It was only worth a couple of seconds though.


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## Crackle (10 Sep 2011)

Well 2nd and 3rd and a mtn top finish. So, over 20 years to emulate Robert Millar. Puts his eforts into perspective, given what's behind team Sky.


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## srw (10 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Well 2nd and 3rd and a mtn top finish. So, over 20 years to emulate Robert Millar. Puts his eforts into perspective, given what's behind team Sky.


Wasn't Sky's objective a podium place in a GT sometime before the end of next year, on the way to winning the TdF by 2014? To achieve two seems like a pretty good step.


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## Crackle (10 Sep 2011)

srw said:


> Wasn't Sky's objective a podium place in a GT sometime before the end of next year, on the way to winning the TdF by 2014? To achieve two seems like a pretty good step.



Oh I'm not belittling them, quite the opposite, I think it's a fabulous achievment and I'm excited to see it. I was just putting it into perspective in the historically recent. No doubt Hilldodger could point to some more successful British cyclists but not the way we recognise the sport today. I certainly didn't mean to sound negative but I am a fan of Millar. Probably because he was racing at his prime when I first started following cycle racing.


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## Keith Oates (11 Sep 2011)

It is a good result for Sky and I for one am very pleasantly surprised that Wiggins is in 3rd place and hopefully will finish on the podium. I didn't think that was possible and just goes to show how wrong I was. Froome would seem to have a great future and could well be the rider to get Sky a TdF win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cheddar George (12 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Well 2nd and 3rd and a mtn top finish. So, over 20 years to emulate Robert Millar. Puts his eforts into perspective, given what's behind team Sky.



According to the BBC website .......

"Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins made history as the first Brits to stand on a grand tour podium, finishing second and third in the Vuelta a Espana behind Spains' Juan Jose Cobo. "


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## HLaB (12 Sep 2011)

Cheddar George said:


> According to the BBC website .......
> 
> "Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins made history as the first Brits to stand on a grand tour podium, finishing second and third in the Vuelta a Espana behind Spains' Juan Jose Cobo. "



They are definitely not the first, Millar done it in 85, however this was the first time a pair of British rider were there, Millar was on his own; perhaps that what they mean.


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## raindog (12 Sep 2011)

Cheddar George said:


> According to the BBC website .......
> 
> "Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins made history as the first Brits to stand on a grand tour podium, finishing second and third in the Vuelta a Espana behind Spains' Juan Jose Cobo. "


Now, that really is disgusting.


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## Buddfox (12 Sep 2011)

I know that it is a condition of using this board that you have to dismiss everyone almost out of hand that doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling, but if you bothered to read three sentences further into the article, you'd see it says that David Millar was on the podium at the Giro in 1987, and the Vuelta in '85 and '86. Stunning that, at the end of a Vuelta which has two Brits on the podium, there are more posts bemoaning a BBC article than celebrating the result!


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## Dayvo (12 Sep 2011)

raindog said:


> Now, that really is disgusting.






Buddfox said:


> I know that it is a condition of using this board that you have to dismiss everyone almost out of hand that doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling, but if you bothered to read three sentences further into the article, you'd see it says that *David Millar* was on the podium at the Giro in 1987, and the Vuelta in '85 and '86. Stunning that, at the end of a Vuelta which has two Brits on the podium, there are more posts bemoaning a BBC article than celebrating the result!




I haven't read the BBC article, but if your quotation, in red, is correct, then the journalism is even more 'disgusting'!

It was _Robert_, not David, Millar on the podium (David Millar was only 10 years old!), but who's worried about accurate journalism?


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## raindog (12 Sep 2011)

Buddfox said:


> I know that it is a condition of using this board that you have to dismiss everyone almost out of hand that doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling, but if you bothered to read three sentences further into the article, you'd see it says that David Millar was on the podium at the Giro in 1987, and the Vuelta in '85 and '86.


If I'd bothered to read three sentences further into the article to see that it says David Millar was on the podium of the Giro in 1987 and the Vuelta in '85 and '86 I would've been even more disgusted. This was - presumably - written by a professional journalist. If he can't get basic historical facts right, then what's the point?


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## Crackle (12 Sep 2011)

No it does say Robert not David. I think, as Hlab says, it's just badly written. I think it's referring to having two on the podium together.


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## Crackle (12 Sep 2011)

Can you not get the BBC news in France Raindog? I know live sport used to be blocked some years ago but I'm not sure if they then made further changes to who could read the site.


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## HLaB (12 Sep 2011)

Dayvo said:


> I haven't read the BBC article, but if your quotation, in red, is correct, then the journalism is even more 'disgusting'!
> 
> It was _Robert_, not David, Millar on the podium (David Millar was only 10 years old!), but who's worried about accurate journalism?



If it said David, they've corrected it


> Robert Millar was the last Briton to have earned a grand tour podium spot, at the 1987 Giro d'Italia.
> 
> Scotsman Millar also finished second twice at the Vuelta, in 1985 and '86.


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## raindog (12 Sep 2011)

Crackle said:


> Can you not get the BBC news in France Raindog? I know live sport used to be blocked some years ago but I'm not sure if they then made further changes to who could read the site.


Radio news? Probably - I've never tried as I'm happy getting live news from French TV or off the BBC website. I do use the listen again I-player system alot though, as it keeps me in touch with my language and culture, and it's a decent distraction while I'm working. I know some of the sports stuff is geo-restricted though, as I often try to watch the little rugby vids, but they won't work for me.

A pal of mine who is constantly emailing the beeb about their lack of bike racing coverage, got on to them this morning about that caption gaff, so it may well have been modified since.


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## rich p (12 Sep 2011)

Cheddar George said:


> According to the BBC website .......
> 
> "Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins made history as the first Brits to stand on a grand tour podium, finishing second and third in the Vuelta a Espana behind Spains' Juan Jose Cobo. "




Terrible grammar CG, I agree.

It should be _*Spain's

 *_


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## Buddfox (12 Sep 2011)

Ha!! Well doesn't that make me look like an idiot?! It said Robert, I just typed it wrong in my haste. Just finished his (David's) book, had it on the brain. It still confuses me that they're not related.


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## Dayvo (12 Sep 2011)

Buddfox said:


> Ha!! Well doesn't that make me look like an idiot?! It said Robert, I just typed it wrong in my haste. Just finished his (David's) book, had it on the brain. It still confuses me that they're not related.




 

One's Scottish - the other one isn't!


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## rich p (12 Sep 2011)

Dayvo said:


> One's Scottish - the other one isn't!




psssst! They're both Scottish


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## Dayvo (12 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> psssst! They're both Scottish



Psssst! One was born in Malta and spent a lot of his young life in England!


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## rich p (12 Sep 2011)

Dayvo said:


> Psssst! One was born in Malta and spent a lot of his young life in England!




Psssssst! He did win a gold medal for Scotland though in the CW Games! 

_That's enough you two!  _


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## Dayvo (12 Sep 2011)

rich p said:


> Psssssst! He did win a gold medal for Scotland though in the CW Games!



You'll be telling me that Chris Froome's English too, eh!  


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Froome


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## Speicher (12 Sep 2011)

Rich P and Dayvo will you please stop this Psssssting contest.


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## raindog (12 Sep 2011)

Buddfox said:


> Ha!! Well doesn't that make me look like an idiot?!


Of course it doesn't, but a journalist making that mistake would be fair game.


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## The Bear (12 Sep 2011)

Buddfox said:


> I know that it is a condition of using this board that you have to dismiss everyone almost out of hand that doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of cycling, but if you bothered to read three sentences further into the article, you'd see it says that David Millar was on the podium at the Giro in 1987, and the Vuelta in '85 and '86. Stunning that, at the end of a Vuelta which has two Brits on the podium, there are more posts bemoaning a BBC article than celebrating the result!



Buddfox. A certain small bear noticed the gaffe this morning and emailed the relevant bozos at the BBC. The info inserted about Robert Millar is exactly the info I sent to the beeb - I think you'll find this was inserted about midday. They probably couldn't change the headline title of the article because it was linked like that to other BBC sport pages. The article now contradicts itself - laughable really - but at least it gives credit to one of the UK's greatest ever cyclists, Robert Millar. 

I have been following cycling for more than 40 years, and the BBC has a frankly disgraceful history in it's relationship to Pro cycling. The point of all of this is that Brad and Chris have achieved something truly remarkable, but as ever the BBC reduced it to a tiny headline on the main sport page, and then the article itself was fundamentally factually incorrect.


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