# RLJ London



## Riding in Circles (21 Aug 2008)

I was in London this afternoon, not one cyclist I saw stopped at a red light, every single one jumped any red light they came to, a couple very nearly caused accidents.


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## tdr1nka (21 Aug 2008)

Saddening & maddening I find.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (21 Aug 2008)

A sniper rifle will help you cope with these idiots. Call it Darwinian selection.


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## dangerousjules (21 Aug 2008)

oi s bloke, ever lived and commuted in london?! red light jumping is on occasions just an exersise in self preservation...so perhaps we'll leave the snipers up in manchester shall we.


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## Tharg2007 (21 Aug 2008)

dangerousjules said:


> red light jumping is on occasions just an exersise in self preservation...so perhaps we'll leave the snipers up in manchester shall we.



poppycock!!

Being stationary, with cars stationary behind you is not dangerous


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## hackbike 6 (21 Aug 2008)

tdr1nka said:


> Saddening & maddening I find.



Agreed.


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## dangerousjules (21 Aug 2008)

ah the bliss of not knowing...


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## hackbike 6 (21 Aug 2008)

Not knowing what?

What are you talking about?

Bet I know more than you.I probably have been doing it a damn sight longer than you.


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## swee'pea99 (21 Aug 2008)

Bizarre. I RLJ as a matter of course - where it's safe - but there are many junctions on my route where even the most hardened reprobate waits for green, because to do otherwise would be suicidal. Are you *sure* no one stopped, ever? How long were you here? And where?


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## hackbike 6 (21 Aug 2008)

What is the point in breaking traffic regulations anyway?
I think im missing something here.


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## Tharg2007 (21 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> What is the point in breaking traffic regulations anyway?
> I think im missing something here.



you get to where you are going a couple of mins quicker, same mentality as the goons in their cars overtaking and cutting in just as you're coming to a queue of traffic


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## CopperBrompton (21 Aug 2008)

Every cyclist, every light? You're not exaggerating just a teensy bit ... ?

In the London cycle commuting I've done, I'd say RLJers were around 80% at most lights, reducing to 0% at the really lethal ones.


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## Riding in Circles (22 Aug 2008)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Every cyclist, every light? You're not exaggerating just a teensy bit ... ?



No, not even a teensy bit. It was 100% yesterday.


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## hackbike 6 (22 Aug 2008)

It happens that way.Sometimes it's 100% sometimes it isn't.


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## stephenb (22 Aug 2008)

stopped at temporary traffic lights other day, 4 idiots rljd thru, 5th idiot piled into the back of me, abused me, kept going then left hooked me a couple of hundred yards further on! It's incurable IMO.


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## BentMikey (22 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> dangerousjules said:
> 
> 
> > ah the bliss of not knowing...
> ...



+1 to Hackers.

RLJing is nothing more than impatience and selfishness.


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## Notsoblue (22 Aug 2008)

swee said:


> +1


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## hackbike 6 (22 Aug 2008)

BentMikey said:


> +1 to Hackers.
> 
> RLJing is nothing more than impatience and selfishness.



IMO it's the same mentality as the clowns in their metal boxes.


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## Riding in Circles (22 Aug 2008)

swee said:


> I was there most of the afternoon, had the folder with me, I started at Victoria at 1pm, had a meeting at Capital Radio on Leicester Square between 2 and 3:30 then cycled up to St. Pauls and had a coffee then up to Cannon Street, a lot of them were couriers but there were some commuter/ general public types as well.


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## Notsoblue (22 Aug 2008)

Catrike UK said:


> I was there most of the afternoon, had the folder with me, I started at Victoria at 1pm, had a meeting at Capital Radio on Leicester Square between 2 and 3:30 then cycled up to St. Pauls and had a coffee then up to Cannon Street, a lot of them were couriers but there were some commuter/ general public types as well.



What kind of junctions did they RLJ through?


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## Riding in Circles (22 Aug 2008)

Notsoblue said:


> What kind of junctions did they RLJ through?



T junctions, ped crossings, I think there is one cross roads there and some other types, y shaped and the like, a courier almost t-boned me on one junction, it's just as well I was paying attention.


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## User482 (22 Aug 2008)

I'm afraid that justifications for RLJ are no better than those made by safe-speed types for breaking the speed limit.


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## Notsoblue (22 Aug 2008)

Catrike UK said:


> T junctions, ped crossings, I think there is one cross roads there and some other types, y shaped and the like, a courier almost t-boned me on one junction, it's just as well I was paying attention.



I RLJ. I can't justify it because its breaking the law. There are certain junctions where the traffic is stopped to allow traffic from another direction, if there is obviously nothing coming, I will occaisionally go through red depending on how much I value my momentum at the time. I've never jumped a red light and put myself or anyone else in danger as a result. And I wouldn't do it on just any junction. There are a couple on my journey that would be suicide to jump through.

My 2p, though I'm sure it will mean nothing to those who are rabidly against any RLJ under any circumstances, ever.


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## bryce (22 Aug 2008)

Consider this:

Cycling for you is either:

1: An enjoyable hobby, which you want others to look upon favourably - so you abide by the law; or

2: A means from A-B (home-work) when, like any other commuter, you want to complete the journey as quickly as possible.

We need to distinguish between 'real' cyclists (1) and commuters (2). It's unfortunate that the second type afflict the perception of us (all type 1s I assume) but doesn't mean we can't educate them (i.e. stop them RLJing if possible and lead by example).

All about education.


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## redjedi (22 Aug 2008)

Catrike UK said:


> I was in London this afternoon, not one cyclist I saw stopped at a red light, every single one jumped any red light they came to, a couple very nearly caused accidents.



We don't all RLJ in London, you obviously didn't see me. 

There is no excuse for RLJing, it's just impatience.


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## redjedi (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> Consider this:
> 
> Cycling for you is either:
> 
> ...



Can I be a 1 & half please? 
I commute daily and want to finish my journey as quickly as possible, but I also want others to look upon me favourably - so abide by the law.


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## swee'pea99 (22 Aug 2008)

Surely whether or not you're a 'real' cyclist depends on whether you 'really' ride a bike, not why. Oh, and thanks for the offer of education. I'll, um, get back to you on that...


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## Notsoblue (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> Consider this:
> 
> Cycling for you is either:
> 
> ...



Occaisonally RLJ has nothing to do with wether or not you're a "real" cyclist, whatever that is.


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## BentMikey (22 Aug 2008)

Can't agree with you there Bryce, I think anyone riding a bike, for whatever reason, is a real cyclist.


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## goo_mason (22 Aug 2008)

Sorry Bryce - I'm a commuter but I fit into both 1 & 2, yet I don't RLJ.

You need to re-formulate your definitions, I think


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## bryce (22 Aug 2008)

Notice the apostrophes around 'real' - by that I mean someone for whom cycling is a hobby. I think/ hope you know what I was getting at.

I commute by bike in London daily and I can tell a 'real' cyclist from a commuter (i.e. someone who doesn't use their bike in any other way) easily. Normally the 'real' cyclists will have better road sense and will be less likely to infuriate those around them (drivers/ peds/ cyclists) or be involved in accidents/ near-misses.

And on the point of education, sooner or later we will all may be licensed if we all continue to flout the law. Majority spoiling things for the minority.

Am not trying to preach here but I see a lot of near misses and idiotic manoeuvres performed by bike commuters. If I was the partner, father, son etc. of one of these people, I'd want them to change their ways fast before they're killed.


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## goo_mason (22 Aug 2008)

I see just as many 'real' cyclists jumping red lights and pulling some very stupid manoeuvres.

Just because I'm a commuter doesn't mean to say that I have poor road sense and am more likely to infuriate those around me or be involved in accidents/ near-misses.

You can't tar everyone with same big brush dipped in a pot of Dulux "Sweeping Generalisation"


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## bryce (22 Aug 2008)

goo_mason said:


> You can't tar everyone with same big brush dipped in a pot of Dulux "Sweeping Generalisation"



I completely agree - it is crass stereotyping - and obviously a lot of commuter cyclists aren't bad cyclists but I have noticed a pattern. Could probably narrow it down further to type of bike/ clothing worn/ left-handedness etc 

To illustrate, a couple of other people in my office commute by bike and regularly RLJ. They don't care about how cycling/ cyclists are perceived, and just treat their bike as a tool to get to work. Fair enough but the next time a taxi driver deliberately 'left-hooks' me or objects to me taking 'primary position' by cutting me up and knocking me off my bike, it may be due in part to the irresponsible/ illegal behaviour of other cycle commuters. I doubt whether some taxi drivers would be so aggressive towards cyclists if we were all to ride well and legally.


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## Notsoblue (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> I doubt whether some taxi drivers would be so aggressive towards cyclists if we were all to ride well and legally.



I disagree. In my opinion other road users dislike cyclists for two reasons; because we're seen as another obstacle on the road stopping them from getting to where they're going as fast as they can and because we can move faster than them when they're stuck in traffic.


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## snorri (22 Aug 2008)

Real cyclists


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## hackbike 6 (22 Aug 2008)

Notsoblue said:


> I disagree. In my opinion other road users dislike cyclists for two reasons; because we're seen as another obstacle on the road stopping them from getting to where they're going as fast as they can and because we can move faster than them when they're stuck in traffic.



Yes,obstacle to slow them down.Not so sure about number 2.I'd say that we are seen as rljing lawbreakers in their bitter little world.I have come to this conclusion as the number one question when I am having this discussion with motorists is "do you RLJ?"


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## snapper_37 (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> To illustrate, a couple of other people in my office commute by bike and regularly RLJ. They don't care about how cycling/ cyclists are perceived, and just treat their bike as a tool to get to work.



Surely they are *real* cyclists, as opposed to *pretend* ..... but also front bottoms who have no concern for anyone else?

Like other's, I fit into both your definitions.

BTW Bryce - I like your avvy but what it that thing to the left of the cow's head?


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## bryce (22 Aug 2008)

OK- to appease all those who aren't appreciating the descriptive effect of my apostrophes, substitute ''real' cyclists' with 'cyclists who consider cycling one of his/ her main hobbies.'

Snapper - it's a number tag that clips on the cow's ear. The cow's breed is Limousin, and if you ever get the chance to eat Limousin beef, try it - the meat tastes great and is very lean and healthy.


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## hackbike 6 (22 Aug 2008)

snapper_37 said:


> Surely they are *real* cyclists, as opposed to *pretend* ..... but also front bottoms who have no concern for anyone else?
> 
> Like other's, I fit into both your definitions.
> 
> BTW Bryce - I like your avvy but what it that thing to the left of the cow's head?



Christ im terribly slow today.ffs.:-(


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## snapper_37 (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> Snapper - it's a number tag that clips on the cow's ear. The cow's breed is Limousin, and if you ever get the chance to eat Limousin beef, try it - the meat tastes great and is very lean and healthy.



Thank eff for that. It looks like a 3" wide blade about to stick the poor bugger. 

Looks like a lovely piece of meat


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## snapper_37 (22 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> Christ im terribly slow today.ffs.:-(



???


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## swee'pea99 (22 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> the number one question when I am having this discussion with motorists is "do you RLJ?"


The answer, of course, being 'do you always stay under 70 when you're on the motorway?'

The idea that motorists - let alone taxi drivers - who dislike us would like us any better if we were always Good Ickle Cyclists is ridiculous. As Blue says, those who dislike us dislike us 'cos they think we get in the way/don't pay tax and/or because we overtake them and leave them fuming in traffic jams. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.


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## User482 (22 Aug 2008)

swee said:


> Well, you're right of course, but that's no reason to sink to their level. RLJing says that you're more important than everyone else, and you have the perfect knowledge to be certain that you will not endange yourself or others. I don't think that's a great position to take.


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## BentMikey (22 Aug 2008)

I'm pretty much only a commuter cyclist, apart from a few rides. Mostly that's because I work when most of you are off, and I see just as many "proper" cyclists jumping the lights.

A recent topic springs to mind where I read about how some thought that riders from a certain fast blue club that rides around Richmond a lot being tagged as seemingly particularly poor road users, jumping lights, stupid filtering, and all sorts of stuffs. Can't say I disagreed with that opinion either.


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## jasper (22 Aug 2008)

swee said:


> Why is always them and us? Doesn't anyone drive on here as well as cycle? I disagree with RLJ and always stick to the rules of the road, be it on cycle or in the car. I've no option as I rely on the car too much for work (approx 1500 miles/week) and without it I'd have to give up a very well paid job. I get my motoring thrills by participating in amateur motor racing on tracks.
> 
> As a motorist, I always treat a cyclist as I'd like to be treated, giving a wide birth when overtaking, etc. I don't bat an eyelid if they overtake me or filter through traffic. I'm usually too busy checking out their bike...or their ass if they are female... But it does nark me when they RLJ, not because they don't pay tax, get in the way or any of the other reasons stated but because, they can endanger themselves and other road users (and pedestrians) by doing so.
> 
> ...


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## hackbike 6 (22 Aug 2008)

snapper_37 said:


> ???



Im slow today both on the bike and intellectually.

*I'm pretty much only a commuter cyclist, apart from a few rides. Mostly that's because I work when most of you are off, and I see just as many "proper" cyclists jumping the lights.*

Same here...and I do love my seven day commutes.NOT.

*The answer, of course, being 'do you always stay under 70 when you're on the motorway?'*

Personally I don't really care how fast they go on the motorway so long as im not there.Selfish I know.I try to keep off motorways when I am with my motoring 'friends' as I have been watching "Police,Camera Action" and I see some of the poor driving that goes on there.

I think the mobile phone lark and general lack of concentration alarms me more.


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## Sittingduck (22 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> Am not trying to preach here



Seems like you're doing quite a good job of it though


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## andyfromotley (23 Aug 2008)

None stopped at all? Glad to see cyclists are showing such comon sense and ignoring pointless laws.

Dont join the appeasers, the section of motorists who hate cyclists will hate em wether they rlj or not. 

RLJ - safe,quick,sensible. I recommend it.


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## hackbike 6 (23 Aug 2008)

andyfromotley said:


> None stopped at all? Glad to see cyclists are showing such *comon* sense and ignoring pointless laws.
> 
> *Dont* join the appeasers, the section of motorists who hate cyclists will hate em *wether* they rlj or not.
> 
> RLJ - safe,quick,sensible. I recommend it.



You can't even spell,seems like sensible advice.(not)

I know whose advice I would seek first,BentMikey's of course.


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## BentMikey (23 Aug 2008)

Apparently young Andy's a copper, or so he likes to make out if I've not misunderstood. Fine example.


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## hackbike 6 (23 Aug 2008)

If he is a copper this country is in deep do-do.


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## swee'pea99 (23 Aug 2008)

And your punctuation isn't up to much, but what of it? andy's clearly only doing it to tease. Perhaps in response to the wave of self-righteous sanctimony that always erupts whenever this subject comes up, with thin-lipped 'appeasers' talking about 'educating' people who are quite capable of spelling - and punctuating too for that matter.

Point is, abiding by the law doesn't make you a safe road-user, nor does breaking it necessarily make you a bad one...a fact well understood by, eg, the Police, which is why they turn a blind eye to breaches of the strict letter of the law - whether excess speeds by motorists or RLJ-ing by cyclists - so long as they're not dumb or dangerous. 

Let’s be clear. Anyone who spooks, let alone endangers, others, is an peanut. But that does not equal RLJ-ing, per se.

Nor is RLJ-ing ‘letting the side down’, nor what makes some other road users hate us. Such people, as others have ably pointed out, have other agendas, and are for the most part miserable misanthropic scumbags who should not be ‘appeased’ (aka allowed to feel RLJ-ing or anything else justifies their stance) in any shape or form.

"We owe it to each other to show consideration to other users, whatever mode of transport they are using." Absolutely. And absolutely compatible with RLJ-ing, so long as it's done carefully and considerately.


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## hackbike 6 (23 Aug 2008)

How are we being self righteous when RLJing is against the rules of the road?Saw three coppers on bikes today who gave me a look as I stopped at a set of traffic lights.I reckon they would have stopped and fined me if i hadn't stopped at that traffic light.RLJing in the volumes I have seen isn't safe for all concerned and is for impatient people when there is no need for it.Got to log off now im up for my commute at 4am.


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## BentMikey (23 Aug 2008)

*rolls eyes*


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## hackbike 6 (24 Aug 2008)

1) So you say Andy is winding us all up?

Does that mean he does or doesn't rlj? or he just does it to wind us up?
Doesn't wind me up, but with the standared of moronic rljing out there I find it very sad.

We are having a go at motons all the time for bad motoring and breaking the law but, this is what we are doing all the time.(A majority of us)

*Point is, abiding by the law doesn't make you a safe road-user, nor does breaking it necessarily make you a bad one...a fact well understood by, eg, the Police, which is why they turn a blind eye to breaches of the strict letter of the law*

They turn a blind eye to a lot of things...not because they want to but as we have heard many times (yawn) paperwork and manpower.

This included motoring offences of which I heave read about on this board many.

I hate being tarred with the same brush by pedestrians and motorists (and coppers) because people RLJ and badly not that its any excuse if they do it well.

* Let’s be clear. Anyone who spooks, let alone endangers, others, is an peanut. But that does not equal RLJ-ing, per se.*

Hmmmm,ok.I would have thought they belong to the same category.

*or is RLJ-ing ‘letting the side down’, nor what makes some other road users hate us. Such people, as others have ably pointed out, have other agendas, and are for the most part miserable misanthropic scumbags who should not be ‘appeased’ (aka allowed to feel RLJ-ing or anything else justifies their stance) in any shape or form.*

I think i've lost the will to live after reading this drivel.

*and are for the most part miserable misanthropic scumbags who should not be ‘appeased’

*Oh I get it,this is a joke right?hahahaha!

This thread has cheered me up thanks,I have something to laugh about while Im cycling the way I have cycled for the last thirty years,stopping at traffic lights included.

Punctuation's,not,up,to,much,but,at,least,I,tried.

All this is my personal opinion of course,or shall I say IMHO,Although I may be a bit of a weirdo,to stop at reds.

Not bad at 4am before a shift eh?Oh ok then.


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## dondare (24 Aug 2008)

[quote name='swee'pea99']

Point is, abiding by the law doesn't make you a safe road-user, nor does breaking it necessarily make you a bad one...a fact well understood by, eg, the Police, which is why they turn a blind eye to breaches of the strict letter of the law - whether excess speeds by motorists or RLJ-ing by cyclists - so long as they're not dumb or dangerous. 
[/QUOTE]


Excess speeds by motorists anoy the hell out of me and I'd be very happy to see a speed camera on every lamp post. It isn't that it's always bound to be dangerous but that it is symptomatic of an attitude that someone in control of a motor vehicle simply shouldn't have. Competent driving instructors teach people how to behave on the road and examiners will fail anyone who is unable to demonstrate that they have learnt these lessons, but after they've passed the test motorists will quickly forget it all and allow impatience to dictate the way that they drive.
When cyclists jump red lights they are displaying exactly the same attitude and although a bike has much less capacity to kill or injure or cause damage that does not mean that it can't do any of these things or that a cyclist is justified in ignoring those laws that are specifically intended to make the roads safer for everyone.


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## upsidedown (24 Aug 2008)

I want car drivers to treat me as a legitimate vehicle while i'm around them, in return i try to behave like one.


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## hackbike 6 (24 Aug 2008)

Some car drivers do but even if they didn't I can't see it as an excuse sorry.
Two wrongs don't make a right and they treat me the same way as they treat you.


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## bryce (24 Aug 2008)

Sittingduck said:


> Seems like you're doing quite a good job of it though



Thanks.

This debate won't end will it? The RLJ brigade will keep on RLJing until they or someone they come across gets injured/ killed as a direct/ indirect result of their actions and the others will get to work slower but safely and with more respect from the 'cager' (explain this term to a non-cycling friend and try not to be embarrassed) drivers in their half tonne bike-ploughs.

Feel free to add to the below (if you haven't lost the will to live yet..)

Pros of RLJing:

+ You'll get to work slightly quicker than the others.
+ You back your road-sense and so far your judgement has been 100% spot-on. You're not causing any danger - because you haven't caused any accidents yet.

Cons of RLJing:
-You're breaking the law.
-You're endangering others by your actions.
-You're setting a bad example to other cyclists who will follow you - maybe without looking.
-If you have an accident as a consequence of RLJing it will be your fault and on your conscience.
-Witnesses will not support you after a RLJ incident.
-You will have no excuses when explaining yourself to friends or the police.
-You give all cyclists a bad name by your actions. Some road users may not give you and other cyclists as much respect.


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## 515mm (24 Aug 2008)

I'm in the stopping at red lights camp. This stance has been further reinforced by what I witnessed last Easter when, whilst waiting at a Toucan crossing on the cyclepath at Blackpill (Swansea). My light went green well after the road traffic's light had changed to red and all motor traffic had come to a halt, yet the six Bynea Cycling Club members in their natty club colours all filtered through the stationary cars and through the red light. Good job I know that a green light means 'Proceed with caution'.

Three or four of the car drivers sounded their horns in protest, but received single finger salutes from Bynea CC in return. One car driver leaned out of his window and said to me "Those twats ain't doing you any favours, are they?" I felt compelled to agree with him.
Little wonder then, Bynea CC, I didn't join your little club when you asked me to.

Arrogant, self important people travel on the roads using many different forms of transport. 

Oh, in case you're all wondering if I'm a real* cyclist, I commute by bicycle but I also cycle for recreation and do the occasional charity ride and sportive




*I know what you mean, however.


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## hackbike 6 (24 Aug 2008)

Peds dont like or trust us either.Can't say I always like peds road behavior really but as BM said somewhere you have to make allowences I guess.
One question,why don't cyclists of the motor variety RLJ?


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## dondare (24 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> One question,why don't cyclists of the motor variety RLJ?



They do, in two ways. Firstly, they always go to the front of the queue which means they're well in front of the stop line which is legally the same as going through a red. Secondly, they accelerate away as soon as they see the amber light which is while the red is still showing and the green isn't.


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## wlc1 (24 Aug 2008)

I have to be honest - when I'm on the way to work at 4am... yes 4 am, I do resent waiting at red lights when there is absolutely nothing coming.

I mean - stopping looking, looking again and looking again.. if it's clear I'll go.

I defy anyone to admit to never jumping a red. We've al done it.


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## dondare (24 Aug 2008)

I have jumped reds in the past but I don't do it now. I resent stopping for no good reason but I stop anyway.


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## hackbike 6 (24 Aug 2008)

wlc1 said:


> I have to be honest - when I'm on the way to work at 4am... yes 4 am, I do resent waiting at red lights when there is absolutely nothing coming.
> 
> I mean - stopping looking, looking again and looking again.. if it's clear I'll go.
> 
> *I defy anyone to admit to never jumping a red. We've al done it.*


 (Not me blatantly)

I commute at 4am as well....Im never in a hurry to get to work anyway ,good commute today while I got soaked as it rained,not quite 4am as I left at 0445am.I only get cheesed off at the *bad* traffic light's,ones with poor phasing or ones that are supposed to detect bikes? but don't,bit like those traffic light's at Stratford.

*I have jumped reds in the past but I don't do it now. I resent stopping for no good reason but I stop anyway.*

You have seen the light.

A good example of not being in hurrry was,I was approaching Southwark Bridge this morning but with the single lane due to the roadworks,I was being bugged by a vehicle behind me.I pulled in to the left.It was a van towing a camper that passed me plus a few cars.When they had gone I proceeded on my merry way only to hit an unknown object in the road, under the bridge very near Southwark Bridge.I lost the front wheel a bit but steadied her.Don't know what it was but it was some heavy,metal object?

Front wheel undamaged as far as I can tell.

I thought I could have hit that object with the camper van behind me if I hadn't let it pass.


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## Perry (26 Aug 2008)

I prefer stopping at lights.

1) I can have a drink

2) Interval riding/training is much better for fitness

3) I don't want to give cyclists a bad name, we get enough sh1t as it is.


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## Perry (26 Aug 2008)

Tharg2007 said:


> poppycock!!
> 
> Being stationary, with cars stationary behind you is not dangerous




I agree but there was an occasion were I was stopped, a milk float was behind me. He thought I went when I hadn't - wrote my bike off 

That being said, I still stop.


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## hackbike 6 (26 Aug 2008)

Ironically yesterday I had stopped at temporary traffic lights when this big car came storming up at me.So I moved past the traffic signal so the moton could get a good view of the red and also protect me a bit if it went tits up.He stopped then I moved to a safer position till the motons had passed when the lights changed.Although I didn't need to jump them I can see the point that *rarely* this happens making RLJ an option when safety is compromised although it would have been even more dangerous to do it this time with the roadwork situation.


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## User482 (26 Aug 2008)

The closest I've come to an accident recently is when a cyclist decided to jump the toucan that I was crossing - he ended up on the pavement in order to avoid me, so it's as well that there were no pedestrians about. Will this incident change his approach? I doubt it.


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## andyfromotley (30 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> You can't even *spell,seems* like sensible advice.(not)
> 
> I know whose advice I would seek first,BentMikey's of course.



idiot


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## hackbike 6 (31 Aug 2008)

Perry said:


> I agree but there was an occasion were I was stopped, a milk float was behind me. He thought I went when I hadn't - wrote my bike off
> 
> That being said, I still stop.



Wow that's harsh.Not your fault obviously.


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## andyfromotley (31 Aug 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Apparently young Andy's a copper, or so he likes to make out if I've not misunderstood. Fine example.



used to be mikey, keep up.


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## andyfromotley (31 Aug 2008)

bryce said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gosh i've been away for a week did you miss me. 

Question 1. Can anyone provide evidence that RLJ is dangerous?

andy


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## BentMikey (31 Aug 2008)

No wonder you're no longer a copper!


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## dondare (31 Aug 2008)

andyfromotley said:


> Gosh i've been away for a week did you miss me.
> 
> Question 1. Can anyone provide evidence that RLJ is dangerous?
> 
> andy



Why should it have to be? It's illegal and antisocial.

Anyway, 
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12583665


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## dondare (31 Aug 2008)

BentMikey said:


> No wonder you're no longer a copper!



He's the sort that gives all cycling coppers a bad name.


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## hackbike 6 (31 Aug 2008)

dondare said:


> He's the sort that gives all cycling coppers a bad name.



I don't think all cycling copper have a bad name.I have a lot of respect for coppers as sometimes I have to work with them in my job.


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## Riding in Circles (31 Aug 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> I don't think all cycling copper have a bad name.I have a lot of respect for coppers as sometimes I have to work with them in my job.



As a cat burglar. :?:


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## hackbike 6 (31 Aug 2008)

I wanted to delete that post as i missed the point but ;-)


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## zaid (31 Aug 2008)

I'm still relatively new to cycling so don't know much about anything (as Sam Cooke once said). I follow the road rules like most people whether in my car or on the bike, I definately don't understand why anyone would jump a red light under *any* circumstances other than trivial self centered reason's. If anyone can honestly explain how "self preservation" etc comes into it, please explain cos as a fellow cyclist if I don't understand, how on earth will the remaining 95% of road users and predestrians ever understand why cyclists jump red lights. They are (and will continue to) draw their own conclusions.


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## BentMikey (31 Aug 2008)

That's exactly right - it's not about safety, but about own selfishness at the cost of other people's safety.


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## mr_cellophane (31 Aug 2008)

I have noticed a number of cyclists who stop past the stop line and then realise that there are no traffic lights on the far side of the junction. They are then stuck in the position of having to RLJ, which I don't think they intended, or only knowing it is safe to cross when the cars behind them start to move.


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## Notsoblue (31 Aug 2008)

This thread is getting quite boring now


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## hackbike 6 (31 Aug 2008)

So is RLJing.


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## stoatsngroats (31 Aug 2008)

So many points of view...thre'll NEVER be agreement on RLj'ing.....

Just to add my ha'penny....I was stopped at a ped crossing RL, and watched as 3 kids, and an adult crossed in front of me. The facing traffic to me was led by a white van, and as the group of peds got halfway, a cyclist, jumped the light from the nearside of the van....no attempt to stop, and no concern that 2 seconds later, would (MORE THAN LIKELY!!!!) have hit the group.....(some will no doubt say that they RLJ when it's safe!!)

I never had, before this incident RLJ'd, and I never will......


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## Dayvo (31 Aug 2008)

Notsoblue said:


> This thread is getting quite boring now



Don't read it then!


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## andyfromotley (31 Aug 2008)

oh right so anecdotal evidence proves the case does it? In that case an awful lot of things are dangerous............ermmmm stopping at red lights seems to spring to mind, followed by cycling in general. Crossing the road as a pedestrian is a no no as i saw someone knocked over in 1976.
Sport, energetic sex, flying, eating fish of course...

Now does anyone have any proper evidence that RLJ constitutes a significant risk to either cyclists, pedestrians or motorists. If you could support this in any way other than your opinion that would be cool.

andy

Ps funnily enough in my years as a cop no one that i dealt with victim, witness or offender ever sought my views on RLJ before deciding if i was any good at my job. Still times change i guess... hey ho.


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## BentMikey (31 Aug 2008)

I have two mates injured by RLJing muppets. No one can stop you from selfish, ignorant and illegal behaviour, but don't try to pass it off as just fine to do.


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## hackbike 6 (31 Aug 2008)

+1.


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## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2008)

BentMikey said:


> I have two mates injured by RLJing muppets.


Really? I'm sorry to hear that. Also surprised. Tho' it is true that some people RLJ in v stupid situations. 

Despite which, speaking as one who has been commuting about 7 miles each way every working day of the year, regardless of wind, rain or snow, for five years, on some of London's busiest roads, where RLJ is absolutely endemic, I have yet to see a single incident, much less accident. 

To read some of the contributions here, you'd think there was carnage on the streets. I have to say, as carnage goes, I've encountered worse...


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## Bollo (31 Aug 2008)

Hey you guys! How about starting a new organisation called 'SafeLights'? Does anyone on here have a caravan, a ponytail and a GCSE in statistics (Grade 'C' or below)?


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## BentMikey (31 Aug 2008)

There are lots of upset people who've been hit by muppets on bikes. It's very anti-social behaviour, and it does cause injury, though not very often. But then that could be said for motor vehicles on the pavement too.


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## Bollo (31 Aug 2008)

BentMikey said:


> There are lots of upset people who've been hit by muppets on bikes. It's very anti-social behaviour, and it does cause injury, though not very often. But then that could be said for motor vehicles on the pavement too.


As soon as I get the 'SafeLights' forum up and running, you're barred for starters!


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## andyfromotley (1 Sep 2008)

No properly researched evidence then?


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## Bollo (1 Sep 2008)

andyfromotley said:


> No properly researched evidence then?


You can be a moderator.


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## dondare (1 Sep 2008)

Bollo said:


> Hey you guys! How about starting a new organisation called 'SafeLights'? Does anyone on here have a caravan, a ponytail and a GCSE in statistics (Grade 'C' or below)?



Didn't Theo Stegers already start one called "SafeJump"?


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## Jake (1 Sep 2008)

i think that if its a 4 way junction, and the pedestian crossing light is on, you may cycle along side but away from them. Never merge them and keep my disatnce. This does depend on a several factors like lateness, weather, police about and if im in a high o' mighty frame of mind where i am a perfect cyclist. There is only one or two places and i do it becuase it saves me getting squashed by cars roaring up behind me as i changed lanes on dangerous potholed road surfaces. The rest of the time i don't. not sure what it makes me, maybe 80% good?


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## Notsoblue (1 Sep 2008)

swee said:


> +1
> 
> I've honestly never seen a RLJ cause an incident in all my time cycling in London. Thats not to say I don't think its ever happened, but considering all the near misses of almost every other type of road user and behaviour that I have observed, I fail to see why RLJ is singled out in this way.


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## bryce (1 Sep 2008)

Notsoblue said:


> +1
> 
> I've honestly never seen a RLJ cause an incident in all my time cycling in London.



This thread is like a scratched LP record.

I've seen a few incidents and near misses and it's still a daft thing to do, unless you're trying to qualify for a Darwin award.

Why don't we all start RLJing in our cars as well?


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## hackbike 6 (1 Sep 2008)

*Despite which, speaking as one who has been commuting about 7 miles each way every working day of the year, regardless of wind, rain or snow, for five years, on some of London's busiest roads, where RLJ is absolutely endemic, I have yet to see a single incident, much less accident.*

Does that make it any more right?

Hope motorists don't do it any more than they do,do it otherwise it will get hairy.I almost got rear ended by a young cyclist does that make it right?

He asked me why I stopped.


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## andyfromotley (1 Sep 2008)

Bollo said:


> You can be a moderator.



careful bollo, i'm not used to posts on here that are actually funny. please stop.


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## andyfromotley (1 Sep 2008)

hackbike 6 said:


> *Despite which, speaking as one who has been commuting about 7 miles each way every working day of the year, regardless of wind, rain or snow, for five years, on some of London's busiest roads, where RLJ is absolutely endemic, I have yet to see a single incident, much less accident.*
> 
> Does that make it any more right?
> 
> ...



doh..........

and there you were, for a moment you nearly had us........


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## Riding in Circles (1 Sep 2008)

andyfromotley said:


> careful bollo, i'm not used to posts on here that are actually funny. please stop.



You should read some of your own stuff then.


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## Bollo (1 Sep 2008)

andyfromotley said:


> careful bollo, i'm not used to posts on here that are actually funny. *please stop*.



Stopping would be dangerous!


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## hackbike 6 (1 Sep 2008)

I like RLJers as much as I like mobile phone users while driving...The latter is probably worse but that still doesn't make the former right.

Oh yeah and I have a go at both at times.

* and there you were, for a moment you nearly had us........*

I really haven't got a clue what you are on about.


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## LLB (2 Sep 2008)

Notsoblue said:


> +1
> 
> I've honestly never seen a RLJ cause an incident in all my time cycling in London. Thats not to say I don't think its ever happened, but considering all the near misses of almost every other type of road user and behaviour that I have observed, I fail to see why RLJ is singled out in this way.



So when you see a set of traffic lights on your cycle commute, do they all look like this ?


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## spindrift (2 Sep 2008)

I see a couple of dozen RLJers on my commute.

No harm done.


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## LLB (2 Sep 2008)

spindrift said:


> I see a couple of dozen RLJers on my commute.
> 
> No harm done.



So you condone, rather than condemn ?

I saw 3 knob heads in cars RLJ yesterday. I know they were RLJing, as mine had turned green, and they were still coming across from the left


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## Notsoblue (2 Sep 2008)

linfordlunchbox said:


> So when you see a set of traffic lights on your cycle commute, do they all look like this ?



Nope, not all of them. There are three junctions on my journey that I will go through on red in the right phase though. And if the junction is rammed with stationary traffic I'll RLJ. I stop at pretty much all others.


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## Bollo (2 Sep 2008)

linfordlunchbox said:


> So when you see a set of traffic lights on your cycle commute, do they all look like this ?



I'm severely Red-Green colourblind, so these look about right to me.


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