# MTBs vs road bikes



## mustang1 (29 Nov 2013)

I've been a road-bike guy since 2006. Before that I had a 1992 Peugeot MTB. Anyway....

I fancied having a whack with MTB again, been no the agenda for a couple of years. I have three bikes right now but doubt I'll buy a 4th, the MTB. So I might just rent. Anyway, in my mtb 'reserach', I found out many things that I didn't know MTBs had these days and a few things I did know but still find interesting:

1. Tubeless tires are more common on MTB. In the road world there's still a shall we/shan't we approach.
2. MTB has option of (IDK what you call it) double chainrings with guards that stop the chain from coming off. I've also seen a deraileur-like device near the chainrings for keeping the chain on the ring. Not that you need that in road-bike world, but still...
3. Road bikes are lighter.
4. There's this thing call Shimano ghost (something) fitted to the rear derailluer. It has an on/off switch. When off, it's like it's not there, but when on, it increases the tension on the pivot of the rd to increase tension in the chain and thus stop chain slap against the chainstays. Nice trick.
5. I heard of telescopic seatposts, and even remotely controlled (from the cockpit) models. But I didn't realize the telescopic seatpost can also go back up and there are two varieties, either hydro or air, the air being faster at rising.
6. Disk brakes are mechanical or hydro. Fine, I knew that. But with the hyrdo, you need to change oil and there are two types, either DOT standard, or mineral oil. I dont know from experience so I'm only going by theory, but I believe MO is more suitable for my way of doingthings because it requires less maintenance and the liquid is non-corrosive. There are other advantages too such as no use-by date for the MO because water doesn't mix with it (it only mixes with DOT fluid)..
7. Auto lock-out suspension fork. When the system decides you're not on the rough stuff, it'll go into suspension mode from lock-out mode.

So as well as informing potential MTB'ers, it made me wonder why road bikes are more expensive than MTB and the only rason I can think of is that the market will bear the higher prices, maybe road bikes are considered more gentlemanly like than MTB. As an example, take a Giant MTB (cant recall name), it's about £5.5k. A Giant Propel Advanced SL is £8k. It's not the prices I'm thinking about, it's "what does the road bike have that's £2.5k dearer?'


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## Mr Haematocrit (29 Nov 2013)

My new MTB is pretty much the same money as my new Road Bike.. Both are Carbon Frames, 11 speed top of the range SRAM with hydraulic brakes and Carbon rims. From my experience if you buy similar specifications the prices are equally pretty similar


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## fossyant (29 Nov 2013)

Don't worry just buy one and get mucky. They are good fun. Your road fitness will transfer well for climbing, but I am afraid, the technical descents on dodgy surfaces will scare your pants off. 

PS I am a roadie.


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## Cubist (29 Nov 2013)

Cool write up, you've certainly done your research. I'll argue about the price bit, as a £1k road bike will be better equipped and higher up the food chain than a £1k mtb. Move outside of the big names and you'll find niche and boutique brands with incredible build costs. My main mtb frame costs about 2.5k retail. Both sides of the market are guilty of pricing to suit people's limits. 

The clutch mech you describe is called Shimano shadow plus.


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## jazzkat (30 Nov 2013)

I think the price is all to do with what the market will stand. We've had one of the toughest financial situations in generations but a sudden 'cycling is cool' zeitgeist and look how much bike prices have risen in recent years.

Having said that, when you consider what you get for your money (inexpensive transport, fitness and loads of fun) it's a pretty inexpensive hobby/pastime/lifestyle.


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## Motozulu (30 Nov 2013)

Enjoyed that - also add to your new found knowledge of all things MTB that the front derailleur thingy for keeping the chain on  is being challenged by a new single ring up front, the Raceface narrow/wide, which meshes with the chain better thus stopping the chain flying off on rough stuff. Combined with a Shimano Zee short cage rear clutched derailleur, you get a silent running, much lighter way to run a 1x10 gear set up.

I did it 2 months ago, ditched the granny and big ring (wasn't using em) and the left hand shifter off the bars. Love the set up.

I am not a roadie and probably will never be.


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## I like Skol (1 Dec 2013)

mustang1 said:


> I've been a road-bike guy since 2006. Before that I had a 1992 Peugeot MTB. Anyway....
> 
> I fancied having a whack with MTB again, been no the agenda for a couple of years. I have three bikes right now but doubt I'll buy a 4th, the MTB. So I might just rent. Anyway, in my mtb 'reserach', I found out many things that I didn't know MTBs had these days and a few things I did know but still find interesting:
> 
> ...



My opinion for what it's worth.

Your proclaimed experience and bike history suggests that you will never need even half of the MTB 'innovations' you mention. I ride in a manner that would suggest I could benefit from the same 'innovations' but I don't have them as personally I believe they are largely gimmicks..... KISS! I don't regret not having these 'innovations'.

Road bikes are lighter for many obvious reasons.

Disc brakes should be Shimano, hydraulic and IME no need to worry about changing the fluid.

Price wise I think the real VFM action in road bikes and MTBs takes place around the £600-£1,500 mark. Pay much less than the bottom end of that and you will get a fairly entry level bike and risk getting a glorified BSO in some cases (but not always!). Pay much more than that and you are almost certainly buying a bike that far exceeds your requirements and ability and in some cases you are paying largely for the name and image (which is fine if you have the disposable, but don't think it is going to make you a super cyclist or get you treated like a god everywhere you go!).

DON'T get sucked in by the hype. You don't HAVE to have the whistles and bells. For just above or below £1k you should be able to find a great bike that suits you. After that the biggest difference to your cycling performance/experience is your legs and how you care for your bike. A £5k bike can be a dog if it is set up and maintained badly!

The SINGLE most important thing is to choose a bike you will enjoy and use it


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## 02GF74 (1 Dec 2013)

mustang1 said:


> 3. Road bikes are lighter.


 
Is that a fact?

My 2000 Bianchi road bike - carbon forks, top of the range aluminium frame, ultegra weighs in at 8.59 kg.

My 2010 Cannondale Fash - carbon frame, Carbon lefty fork, SRAM X0 weighs in at 8.37 kg.

Ok, the carbon frame makes a difference as indeed to 10 years of innovation and progress so it is not a lfair comparison,

But generally a mountain bike will be heavier as the frame needs to be more beefy, will have suspension forks and have fatter tyres whcih aladd to the weight.

re: hydraulic brakes, I have not come acoss this replacing th fluid evey year - I certainly don't and don't believe the brakes suffer for it.


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## mustang1 (1 Dec 2013)

I like Skol said:


> My opinion for what it's worth.
> 
> Your proclaimed experience and bike history suggests that you will never need even half of the MTB 'innovations' you mention. I ride in a manner that would suggest I could benefit from the same 'innovations' but I don't have them as personally I believe they are largely gimmicks..... KISS! I don't regret not having these 'innovations'.
> 
> ...



Thanks, yes you are right on many counts and I agree. In fact *if* I bought an MTB, I was eyeing up a 2013 Giant Talon 2 which is listed at £850. Comes with Rockshox Something forks, Shimano Something brakes, and I dont beleive it has that ghost shifter thingie.


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## mustang1 (1 Dec 2013)

02GF74 said:


> *Is that a fact?*
> 
> My 2000 Bianchi road bike - carbon forks, top of the range aluminium frame, ultegra weighs in at 8.59 kg.
> 
> ...



It is a fact!  But yes I understand your point also.


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## Cubist (1 Dec 2013)

02GF74 said:


> Is that a fact?
> 
> My 2000 Bianchi road bike - carbon forks, top of the range aluminium frame, ultegra weighs in at 8.59 kg.
> 
> ...


Hope brakes run on Dot 5 brake fluid. Over time it absorbs water and as a result heats up more easily, leading to a loss in performance. They need bleeding more often, and a complete fluid flush every so often brings that performance back up to its normal level.

The mineral oil in Shimano brakes doesn't absorb water, so only needs bleeding if air enters the system.


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## Motozulu (2 Dec 2013)

Formula RX brakes...it doesn't HAVE to be Shimano at all....


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## Adam Parker (2 Dec 2013)

Formula RX aren't too bad, although they are pretty old now, I wouldn't be too eager to replace them if they came fitted to a new bike, however if i were to build my own bike, I would definitely go with Shimano SLX XT XTR maybe Saint. Adam


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## fossyant (6 Dec 2013)

My 20 year old rigid MTB suits my off road down hill skills and desires ( ie I will slow down as I am a roadie and a chicken) but it's bloody great going uphill and XC. Road downhill then I am better. Those scary trees and rocks that jump out.

I am with Skolly on MTB kit, get something that's mid range and works and won't rob you blind when you break it. Road kit, then I've gone top end in the past and still have it. MTBs take massive abuse so I would say XT level max or x9/X0 in SRAM


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## dan_bo (6 Dec 2013)

mustang1 said:


> blah
> 
> you need to change oil
> 
> blah



my front brake was last bled in 2008 1998.


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## I like Skol (6 Dec 2013)

fossyant said:


> ......... MTBs take massive abuse so I would say XT level max......


In the hands of some people maybe....


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## fossyant (6 Dec 2013)

I like Skol said:


> In the hands of some people maybe....



I've seen you riding... I am more it will shift on load. You are it will jump 30 feet.


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## MikeW-71 (6 Dec 2013)

fossyant said:


> MTBs take massive abuse...


Dunno about my bike, but *I'm* certainly taking massive abuse  The sad thing is that I'm not even going very fast yet!

After a years worth of road riding, off-road is a big culture shock since I'd never really done it before. For a start you're on a loose/slippy surface, road riding teaches you that this is bad, so it has taken a bit to get that out of my head. I don't bounce as well at 42 as I did at 16.

Then there's cornering. Road teaches you to stay in the saddle and lean with it. Not on the MTB you don't. I still keep wanting to sit down when I shouldn't be 

Then it gets rough. Really rough. I tried the Red route at Ae this week. On the final section I thought my eyeballs were going to get shaken out of my head, it felt really fast and I chickened out of all the drop-offs (still very wary of them). On that 1.4 mile segment I was about 7 mins slower than the fastest (yes, SEVEN MINUTES!!) on an almost purely downhill section  It was my first time round there I know, but... wow, the fast guys must be really moving!

Even climbing is different. It's often impossible to get into a rhythm as your rear wheel is skipping off rocks and spinning though gravel, unless you're on a forest road.

I need more practice because if I can get to the 'degla meet, I can see me getting left far behind


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## Cubist (7 Dec 2013)

MikeW-71 said:


> Dunno about my bike, but *I'm* certainly taking massive abuse  The sad thing is that I'm not even going very fast yet!
> 
> After a years worth of road riding, off-road is a big culture shock since I'd never really done it before. For a start you're on a loose/slippy surface, road riding teaches you that this is bad, so it has taken a bit to get that out of my head. I don't bounce as well at 42 as I did at 16.
> 
> ...


Yeay, another convert! 

*Ae makes 'Degla look like a canal towpath in terms of difficulty. 
** We'll wait. Having a more cautious rider gives some of us the excuse to stop for a breather.


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## MikeW-71 (8 Dec 2013)

I am really enjoying it TBH. Since the roads are so mucky this time of year, whatever I ride is going to get plastered, so I may as well head off-road. I get just as good a workout. 

Are these Suntour XCM forks really OK for this though? They do have this sticker on that warns "not suitable for extreme terrain, dirt jumping or hard riding" I know they are just basic, but am I just going to trash them in short order or are they better than I fear?

To tackle one of the original questions though:


mustang1 said:


> As an example, take a Giant MTB (cant recall name), it's about £5.5k. A Giant Propel Advanced SL is £8k. It's not the prices I'm thinking about, it's *"what does the road bike have that's £2.5k dearer?"*


The full Dura-Ace DI2 electric shift groupset takes care of most the difference, it is stupidly expensive. The ZIPP wheels are the remainder.

The top Anthem Advanced MTB is £5.5k, probably best compared with the TCR Advanced SL 2 (mechanical groupset, Giants own wheels) at £4.7k. I can't afford either of them.


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## Cubist (8 Dec 2013)

You've ridden the Ae line on a bike with Suntour XCMs? Respect!

Seriously though, they're OK. They're what you've got. Yes, they are basic, and lack rebound damping and adjustability if you want to get serious( ie beyond fire roads and gentle stuff) I expect you found them a bit clunky on the rougher stuff. If the frame/rest of the bike warrant it, then save for a fork upgrade, it'll make a world of difference now you're branching into serious territory.


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## MikeW-71 (8 Dec 2013)

LOL. It wasn't fast and wasn't pretty, but I got round without needing a hospital visit and learned a bit. I love hydro brakes even more now  (why the hell it's taken until now to get them onto road bikes I will never know)

Yep, the forks weren't feeling great when the speed got up on the roughest stuff and at the end of it they felt a bit stiff. Thought I'd done them in, but they seemed to go back to normal after a bit. Were they being overworked and getting too hot or something? Might be a good idea to pop them apart and re-grease them.

An upgrade would be good, but I would not want to spend a fortune on a fork. No point putting a £1k fork into a £500 bike. It does ride well though and feels solid, maybe something around the £300ish mark would be a good enough upgrade without going over the top. I don't see myself being a speed-demon in MTB


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