# Electric bikes



## Racing roadkill (27 Apr 2015)

A colleague of mine turned up to work, on one of these today. I don't like them, would you ever consider one?


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## snorri (27 Apr 2015)

Might do, why not?


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## Drago (27 Apr 2015)

Only if I were disabled or mentally infirm. Take away the exercise and the feeling of achievement, and that's 2/3 of my reasons for cycling gone.

I'm all for them as a means of getting people out of cars, reducing congestion, easing pressure on parking facilities, but for me as a cyclist they're of no interest to me.


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## welsh dragon (27 Apr 2015)

If it meant I could still get out and about why not? Some of them look really good.never say never. One day, you may decide you want one after all.


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## andyfraser (27 Apr 2015)

I'd certainly consider one if it made commuting or shopping easier. I'm not too proud to have assistance for those times when it's a struggle. I'd still be able to go for proper bike rides too. Maybe I'd be more inclined to go out in the evening.


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## Racing roadkill (27 Apr 2015)

I could just about see the case for one in the cold nasty months, you could wrap up like an Eskimo and not arrive at your destination a disheveled sweaty mess. But as for a full time ride, nah, not for me.


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## Brandane (27 Apr 2015)

My brother is considering one. He has cycled all his life, but now has circulation problems in one leg which has ruled out anything other than short cycles on flat terrain. Even walking anything more than short distances is painful for him; so he has had to give up golf too.
Just be thankful that you are fit enough to be able to ride a "proper" bike; you never know what is around the corner and one day you might welcome the fact that electrical assisted cycles are an option.


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## DEFENDER01 (27 Apr 2015)

Brandane said:


> My brother is considering one. He has cycled all his life, but now has circulation problems in one leg which has ruled out anything other than short cycles on flat terrain. Even walking anything more than short distances is painful for him; so he has had to give up golf too.
> Just be thankful that you are fit enough to be able to ride a "proper" bike; you never know what is around the corner and one day you might welcome the fact that electrical assisted cycles are an option.


I totally agree.
I am only able to do short cycle rides due to a knee injury i received back in the 70s.
I have found a short cycle ride most days is helping and as i cant walk too far if i need to get off my bike hills etc at least i have the bike to support me like a two wheeled zimmer.


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## Rooster1 (27 Apr 2015)

QVC shopping channel had an hour long advert for an Electric Mountain bike. It had the usual pedal drive but also a motor in the rear axle that gave it a boost. It was about £800 and was being demonstrated by (in their own words) an "exercise adverse member of staff" . I can't say it looked all that bad and you could not see any sign of it being electric. But I just don't get the whole e bike thing. Even Cube have one on sale, perhaps all the mass market makes do. For me, the challenge of a difficult hill is learning to be able to do it myself, without a boost. When I started cycling again a couple of years back, I used to try some hard hills, and for a long time I would fail, Gradually I got better at these darn hills and went further, faster, higher and finally over them. 

However, it would be quite a laugh to ride one home one day and beat my colleague!


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## welsh dragon (27 Apr 2015)

I think the whole point of ebikes is that even if you have an illness that prevents you from using a normal bike, you can still get out in the fresh air and have a semblance of independance. If you have heart problems, arthritis, MS or any other problems it means you can still go out on your own and and have the opportunuty to see some wonderful scenery, And if it gives someone that freedom, then I'm all for it. At least they are having a go. All to often people just give up, so I certainly wouldn't dismiss ebikes or the people who use them. I may need one one day


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## raleighnut (27 Apr 2015)

There are 2 of them at our house, Maz has arthritic knees so I fitted an electric front wheel kit to her Dawes Geneva and was highly impressed, so much so that I wanted one for trailer dragging duties (I have been known to carry 50Kg of building supplies on the trailer and we live on top of a hill/ridge)
However I then had a fall and broke my Femur which didn't knit back together with the first intermedullary nail (bloody big pin inserted inside the bone) so they took that out and drilled the inside of the bone to the same size as an even bigger pin. During a session with the physiotherapist he put me on an exercise bike and was shocked at how well I did on it (until I told him that I was a fulltime cyclist) and said "Its a pity you haven't got one of these at home as well, how about joining a Gym" so I toyed with that idea then thought about bolting one of my bikes onto a 'turbo trainer' then had the brainwave of getting a trike. Trouble was I could ride it along the ridge but if I went down the hill I couldn't get back up so I bought an electric front wheel kit for that.(it will eventually go onto one of my MTBs that I use for pulling the trailer once I can get back to riding 2 wheelers again)
In short I think e-bikes are fantastic but there are some ugly ones out there, far better to convert a normal bike using a kit like this.


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## snorri (27 Apr 2015)

An elderly guy in my locality, a lifelong cyclist, bought an electro assist bike believing his strength to be waning. He continued to cover a lot of miles and after some time I asked him how the bike was performing. He told me the battery was now exhausted and he could not afford to buy a new one but he was continuing to use the bike and considered pedalling around with the extra weight of the redundant electrical components to be "good training".


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## jarlrmai (27 Apr 2015)

As long as they are correctly limited as required or if not limited they are correctly licensed and driven as a powered vehicle I have no problem with them at all.


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## Shortmember (27 Apr 2015)

I expect that electric bikes will become very popular with the general public when the new solid state batteries that are being developed become available in the not too distant future. They will, apparently, revolutionise electric powered machinery, including e-bikes. These batteries are claimed to be lighter, cheaper to make than lithium ion ones and last much longer between charges. I might even get one myself, if the price is right.


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## machew (27 Apr 2015)

Looking at retro fitting an electric motor into the wife's bike, (looking at the copenhagen wheel cos its simple) so she can keep up with me. She loves cycling but hates hills.


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Apr 2015)

Some time ago on my commute I'd seen the most cool, fully loaded touring bikes, ridden by an elderly couple.
Cool looking bikes, I tell them.
Yes, yes, we are going on an outing, we love the fresh air ...we are 85, you know? Those are electrical assisted, to give us a wee help up the hills, we love riding our bikes.


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Apr 2015)

Some time ago on my commute I'd seen the most cool, fully loaded touring bikes, ridden by an elderly couple.
Cool looking bikes, I tell them.
Yes, yes, we are going on an outing, we love the fresh air ...we are 85, you know? Those are electrical assisted, to give us a wee help up the hills, we love riding our bikes.


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## F70100 (27 Apr 2015)

Mrs F70100 just got one. She doesn't do "sport" (she'll happily labour all day in her garden though) but wanted to be able to come out cycling with me without feeling that she would be slowing me down/going to get left at the bottom of a hill/ etc.

Still early days but she is getting out with me and says she's enjoying it, and so am I!


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## nickyboy (28 Apr 2015)

Yeah, why not? I'm fit enough now to cycle around the Peak District and enjoy the cycling. But that won't be forever and there will come a time when it becomes just too hard to be enjoyable (hopefully quite a long way off!)
At that time I'd buy an electric assist. As TMN says, you only use the assist on the hills, then pedal as normal on the flat and downhills. That way I'd still get reasonable exercise and be able to enjoy the countryside.
Brian Robinson now rides an electric assist to let him get up the big hills in these parts. He's an ex-TdF stage winner so if it's good enough for him it'll certainly be good enough for me


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## Drago (28 Apr 2015)

Lance is an ex Tour winner. If drug Cheating is good enough for him... 

You catch my drift. Just because someone else does something has never struck me as a justification for doing it myself, although I concur fully with the concept of using them to assist ageing bonds and tendons up the hills.


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## albion (28 Apr 2015)

Shortmember said:


> I expect that electric bikes will become very popular with the general public when the new solid state batteries that are being developed become available in the not too distant future...



And what happened to ultra-capacitors always 'coming soon' ?


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## summerdays (28 Apr 2015)

I've contemplated it in the winter months when I'm struggling with iron levels, though I had a good winter this time so didn't end up hiring one which was my intention (you can do a 1 month loan from the council). I worry I would become a lazy cyclist, but when it's really hard and you end up in tears feeling you can't get up a small hill then electric assist sounds wonderful. I don't want to add lots of weight, and would rather have less weight/power and only use it where I really need it and not be held back the rest of the time by carrying power I didn't need.

I see them daily on my commute some regulars and some you only see once.


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## Racing roadkill (28 Apr 2015)

albion said:


> And what happened to ultra-capacitors always 'coming soon' ?


That's the world of high tech for you, it's always "the next x years are going to see this (insert techy thing) take over the universe". Only the horizon always seems to move more quickly than the techy thing does.


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## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2015)

I have both e and ordinary bikes.

Nothing can match the pleasure of riding an ordinary lightweight bike in favourable conditions.

E bikes are heavy, which makes the cycling experience not as pure.

But they do calm the headwinds, flatten the hills (to a degree) and give range.

I hacked after Nicky on the Llandudno recce for 80+ miles, and have done a handful of other rides of similar length.

Battery capacity and weight is the weak point of ebikes, as it is with other electrically powered vehicles.

A lumpy bottle battery is OK for about 20 miles, but you need to carry a lot more capacity than that for a day ride.

Very easy to overload the bike, and it's unwieldy at A gates and other obstacles.

Batteries were big and heavy when they were invented more than 200 years ago, and they still are big and heavy - I cannot see that changing in the foreseeable future.


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## Tim Hall (28 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Batteries were big and heavy when they were invented more than 200 years ago, and they still are big and heavy - I cannot see that changing in the foreseeable future.



I'd say batteries these days are smaller and lighter than they were 200 years ago. Or there the same size, but have greater capacity. Looking at the energy density of a lead acid battery, wikipedia says is 0.56MJ/l, while a Li Ion battery is between 0.9MJ/l and 2.63MJ/l. At the worst case that's almost twice as good. At the best it's over 4.5 times as good.


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## glenn forger (28 Apr 2015)

Locked my steed up next to one of these a few days ago:

http://www.tesco.com/direct/hopper-shopper-electric-bike-blue/761-4756.prd







Quite funky.


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## Oldbloke (28 Apr 2015)

raleighnut said:


> There are 2 of them at our house, Maz has arthritic knees so I fitted an electric front wheel kit to her Dawes Geneva and was highly impressed, so much so that I wanted one for trailer dragging duties (I have been known to carry 50Kg of building supplies on the trailer and we live on top of a hill/ridge)
> However I then had a fall and broke my Femur which didn't knit back together with the first intermedullary nail (bloody big pin inserted inside the bone) so they took that out and drilled the inside of the bone to the same size as an even bigger pin. During a session with the physiotherapist he put me on an exercise bike and was shocked at how well I did on it (until I told him that I was a fulltime cyclist) and said "Its a pity you haven't got one of these at home as well, how about joining a Gym" so I toyed with that idea then thought about bolting one of my bikes onto a 'turbo trainer' then had the brainwave of getting a trike. Trouble was I could ride it along the ridge but if I went down the hill I couldn't get back up so I bought an electric front wheel kit for that.(it will eventually go onto one of my MTBs that I use for pulling the trailer once I can get back to riding 2 wheelers again)
> In short I think e-bikes are fantastic but there are some ugly ones out there, far better to convert a normal bike using a kit like this.


 interesting, @raleighnut. I'm thinking of fitting a kit to Mrs OB's bike. Can you recommend one?


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## HarryTheDog (28 Apr 2015)

I ride a bike to keep my wieght down and save money so would not consider a electric bike. They are becoming more popular and down in our works car park 3 regularly turn up, a go bike, a Smart bike and a electric MTB HAIBIKE. They are all around the 2,000 mark.( the HAI bike probably more)
I have spoken to 2 of the owners. They bought them purely for the convenience of a short commute in London and are not interested in the fitness aspect at all, just works for their commute, nothing wrong physically with the people, they could ride normal bikes but have no interest at all in cycling, So totally different ättitude to "real cyclists".


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## raleighnut (28 Apr 2015)

Oldbloke said:


> interesting, @raleighnut. I'm thinking of fitting a kit to Mrs OB's bike. Can you recommend one?


I have used 2 of the kits imported/branded by Cyclotricity, one from the importer but I found the aftersales to be a bit crap so the second one came from a retailer (at the same price though) these were the firm I got the second one from
http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/
I went for the pannier battery option and left off the assist computer/handlebar unit so mine is throttle operation only but the wiring loom is there so I could retro-fit it if I wanted but it means that I can choose not to use up the battery power when I am in town and just pootling along at walking speed but still pedalling. (The front wheel simply 'freewheels' when the motor is not powered or the bike/trike is travelling faster than the legally powered speed and is actually pretty 'free running' when riding without power assist. i.e. There is no drag when not in use


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Locked my steed up next to one of these a few days ago:
> 
> http://www.tesco.com/direct/hopper-shopper-electric-bike-blue/761-4756.prd
> 
> ...



Towards the other end of the price scale, here's a pic of my Rose/Bosch trekking bike:


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## ufkacbln (29 Apr 2015)

I have 2, one is a Christiania Trike which carries a mobility scooter, and the other my wife's Bionx powered Gekko. I also have responsibiloty for two others used by elderly relatives.

In all these cases they offer an extension of cycling that would othereise not be possible.

One elderly relative extended their cycling into their 80's after buying one.


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

I've been considering a Kalkhoff ebike for a number of years having seen a lot of them in the Netherlands where they massively outsell conventional bicycles nowadays. My thinking is that instead of replacing my commuting motorcycle with another I buy an ebike for year round use and save a few quid on VED, fuel and insurance and get a bit more gentle exercise into the bargain. The e means I can wear normal office togs and arrive looking presentable rather than as a dishevelled gently steaming heap and it also means that my 9 mile uphill trip home is easy even after a long day at the coal face. By equating it to a motorcycle purchase I find I can easily justify spending £2.5k on one. :-)

I retain the right to use my road bike during nice weather and at weekends tho.

I test rode a Kalkhoff a couple of years back and it was so easy to use and my local hills were effortlessly despatched, on one test climb I passed a group coming up as I descended to begin and blitzed them on the way back up, bit like Harry Enfield's jockey with his cup of tea except I didn't quite know what to say or where to look as I wafted by at speed ... slightly embarrassing.
I recorded the ride on my Garmin and it synced to Strava before I had chance to get in and make the ride private, I never saw so many hill climb KOM's on my page. :-) Don't worry, I made it private to set the record straight.


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> I've been considering a Kalkhoff ebike for a number of years having seen a lot of them in the Netherlands where they massively outsell conventional bicycles nowadays. My thinking is that instead of replacing my commuting motorcycle with another I buy an ebike for year round use and save a few quid on VED, fuel and insurance and get a bit more gentle exercise into the bargain. The e means I can wear normal office togs and arrive looking presentable rather than as a dishevelled gently steaming heap and it also means that my 9 mile uphill trip home is easy even after a long day at the coal face. By equating it to a motorcycle purchase I find I can easily justify spending £2.5k on one. :-)
> 
> I retain the right to use my road bike during nice weather and at weekends tho.
> 
> ...



Your plan should work.

Some Kalkhoffs - in common with other German and Dutch roadsters - have hydraulic rim brakes.

I'm sure they work OK, but hydraulic discs seem to me to be simpler and a better bet for a commuter.

A few Kalkhoff ebikes now have discs, so you could probably find one to suit.

Another unusual feature of Kalkhoff ebikes is they use Dunlop/Woods valves.

I can't get on with those, but easy enough to change to Schrader or Presta tubes.


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## raleighnut (29 Apr 2015)

I should add that the kits we have at home have 6 bolt disc fittings on them as well, so they will fit a disc brake equipped bike. 



raleighnut said:


> I have used 2 of the kits imported/branded by Cyclotricity, one from the importer but I found the aftersales to be a bit crap so the second one came from a retailer (at the same price though) these were the firm I got the second one from
> http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/
> I went for the pannier battery option and left off the assist computer/handlebar unit so mine is throttle operation only but the wiring loom is there so I could retro-fit it if I wanted but it means that I can choose not to use up the battery power when I am in town and just pootling along at walking speed but still pedalling. (The front wheel simply 'freewheels' when the motor is not powered or the bike/trike is travelling faster than the legally powered speed and is actually pretty 'free running' when riding without power assist. i.e. There is no drag when not in use


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Your plan should work.
> 
> Some Kalkhoffs - in common with other German and Dutch roadsters - have hydraulic rim brakes.
> 
> ...



Those magura hydraulic rim brakes are excellent, I was skeptical but the feel and power are amazing. Discs even better yes.
I'm waiting on the perfect commuter low maintenance combo of alfine gearbox, gates belt drive and hydraulic disc brakes before I jump in.
They already make it but it's the 350w version so you're into insurance and registration plate to use it on the road legally. Kinda negates the benefits of losing the motorbike although it would be a treat to see car drivers reactions to a pushbike doing 28mph up the hills rounds here :-)

As for Woods valves, I've had a Batavus city bike for years so am used to the things. I don't like them but I'm used to them. :-)


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## Oldbloke (29 Apr 2015)

Thanks for the link @raleighnut


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> Those magura hydraulic rim brakes are excellent, I was skeptical but the feel and power are amazing. Discs even better yes.
> I'm waiting on the perfect commuter low maintenance combo of alfine gearbox, gates belt drive and hydraulic disc brakes before I jump in.
> They already make it but it's the 350w version so you're into insurance and registration plate to use it on the road legally. Kinda negates the benefits of losing the motorbike although it would be a treat to see car drivers reactions to a pushbike doing 28mph up the hills rounds here :-)
> 
> As for Woods valves, I've had a Batavus city bike for years so am used to the things. I don't like them but I'm used to them. :-)



I have an Alfine 11 on the Rose bike pictured upthread.

Without wishing to put a fly in your ointment, I'm bound to say it broke after 18 months.

Madison/Shimano replaced it under warranty - I told them how old it was and where it had been used.

My Rose has a Bosch crank drive, similar in power to the Impulse 2 on the Kalkhoff.

Bosch detune the maximum assistance to 200% instead of 250% because of the hub gear.

Yet it still broke.

The new hub is working OK, but I have had a couple of crunchy changes.

I'm now a bit nervous of the hub, they are £400+ and I doubt Madison would fix it again.

Based on that experience, I would suggest you go for a derailleur crank drive bike.

Pity, because the hub has many advantages for commuting.


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> I have an Alfine 11 on the Rose bike pictured upthread.
> 
> Without wishing to put a fly in your ointment, I'm bound to say it broke after 18 months.
> 
> ...




Hmmm, well I'd rather have that fly in there sooner than later so thanks! Never had a moments trouble with my old Nexus 7 speed but then again it's not under the same stress as an ebike is it, and I suspect a little more agriculturally engineered than the alfine. Rohloff then! :-0
The 7/8 speed should actually be plenty with a powered bike tho shouldn't it and lets face it, the maintenance of a derailleur isn't that difficult is it. I'd just rather it not be an issue. I'll happily spend time cleaning my road bike after each trip but a daily commuter is far more open to being left for a week without being looked over. Or two weeks ...


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## w00hoo_kent (29 Apr 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Locked my steed up next to one of these a few days ago:
> 
> http://www.tesco.com/direct/hopper-shopper-electric-bike-blue/761-4756.prd
> 
> Quite funky.



We have one park up at work occasionally, I've just about seen it enough for it not to be novel now.

As with many others, I could see it as a way to increase riding longevity in the future, but wouldn't buy one just to make my life easier at the moment as the exercise aspect of riding a bike is important to me. Although there's a chance that if powered two wheelers was my only option I'd be looking at rekindling my love of motorbikes rather than adding motors to my bicycling. Not sure.

I had a friend who got one, probably the best part of a decade ago, through the earlier version of C2W (when prices weren't capped and the bike cost you a tenner at the end of it all) so that he could commute from SE London to Edenbridge (as there is a very big hill in the way) rather than driving. Worked very well for him for about 18 months, then started to get gremlins (mainly batter life if I recall correctly) which I don't think ever found fixes. So he ended up going back to commuting by car.


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> Hmmm, well I'd rather have that fly in there sooner than later so thanks! Never had a moments trouble with my old Nexus 7 speed but then again it's not under the same stress as an ebike is it, and I suspect a little more agriculturally engineered than the alfine. Rohloff then! :-0
> The 7/8 speed should actually be plenty with a powered bike tho shouldn't it and lets face it, the maintenance of a derailleur isn't that difficult is it. I'd just rather it not be an issue. I'll happily spend time cleaning my road bike after each trip but a daily commuter is far more open to being left for a week without being looked over. Or two weeks ...



I agree 7/8 speed would be fine and it does appear to be bombproof, which the 11 is not.

If money is no object, you could get a Reise and Muller ebike with a Rohloff hub.

I've tried a mate's full sus Delite tourer.

In riding, the hub is just that, a hub, but I suspect it would be 100 per cent reliable.

My mate has put about 6,000miles on his with no bother.

That would mean the Bosch crank drive, but if you liked the Impulse, I think you'd be fine with the Bosch.

Another thing you are certainly right about is to be looking at a Kalkhoff or similar quality ebike.

Any of the cheaper Chinese ebikes would fall apart in months, if not weeks, on a commute.

Here's a link to R&M, some of them look a bit different, but they are quality bicycles, and the serviceable components are standard.

Properly engineered, too, my mate's Delite was rock solid on a twisty 35mph descent.

http://en.r-m.de/e-bikes/


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> I agree 7/8 speed would be fine and it does appear to be bombproof, which the 11 is not.
> 
> If money is no object, you could get a Reise and Muller ebike with a Rohloff hub.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that link, I'd already decided Kalkhoff was the start point. A friend bought one of their city bikes as a result of seeing me looking over the ebikes and he's ridden it a couple of years commuting now and it looks like new. Well built things. I hadn't seen R&M and they do look interesting. Another option for me there. :-)

Agreed on the Chinese stuff. Might last a year for the occasional user but for a commute 5 days a week year round it's not going to survive long.


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## F70100 (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> I test rode a Kalkhoff a couple of years back and it was so easy to use and my local hills were effortlessly despatched, on one test climb I passed a group coming up as I descended to begin and blitzed them on the way back up, bit like Harry Enfield's jockey with his cup of tea except I didn't quite know what to say or where to look as I wafted by at speed ... slightly embarrassing.



Mrs F70100 bought a Kalkhoff. She laughs like a drain when she wafts past me as I'm slogging up a hill...


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

F70100 said:


> Mrs F70100 bought a Kalkhoff. She laughs like a drain when she wafts past me as I'm slogging up a hill...



Brilliant! :-)


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> Thanks for that link, I'd already decided Kalkhoff was the start point. A friend bought one of their city bikes as a result of seeing me looking over the ebikes and he's ridden it a couple of years commuting now and it looks like new. Well built things. I hadn't seen R&M and they do look interesting. Another option for me there. :-)
> 
> Agreed on the Chinese stuff. Might last a year for the occasional user but for a commute 5 days a week year round it's not going to survive long.



A safe - and cheapish - choice would be a KTM Macina 8.

Nice, straightforward Bosch bike with the sturdy Nexus 8 hub.

KTM also have other crank drive/hub bikes, including the new Shimano Steps which is called Di2, so I'm guessing there's some electronic shifting going on there.

Fli, the distributor, is not far from you.

They don't usually deal direct with the public, but the guy who runs it, Col, is a roadie who sometimes commutes by ebike.

You would have a bit in common, so if you could get hold of him it could help your decision making.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co....cross-8/ktm_bicycles_ebikes_bosch-drive?pp=12

*FLi Distribution Ltd.*
First Floor Offices
102 Fenay Bridge Road
Fenay Bridge
Huddersfield, HD8 0AY GB
T: 01457 873 923


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> A safe - and cheapish - choice would be a KTM Macina 8.
> 
> Nice, straightforward Bosch bike with the sturdy Nexus 8 hub.
> 
> ...



Interesting again! And very close by. 
Thanks for the info. It seems there are quite a few options now based around the Bosch system.


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

Chrisc said:


> Interesting again! And very close by.
> Thanks for the info. It seems there are quite a few options now based around the Bosch system.



Bosch do seem to have the largest market share in crank drives.

I suppose the manufacturers know customers regard Bosch as having a good name, so fitting their bits will help the bike sell.

The drives have proved reliable as far as I can gather, although dealers are thin on the ground and service, where it has been required, has been a bit hit and miss.

I think KTM are better than some in this respect, they seem to have proper franchised dealers, rather than some manufacturers who appear to wholesale a few bikes to any shop that wants to buy them.

Do have a go on a Bosch bike to establish if you can get on with one, they are all very similar so it doesn't really matter which make.

I like the system because of it's nice, smooth power delivery, and its generally unobtrusive nature.

I've done a few 50 mile+ rides in which I've set the power level before leaving and not touched it before getting home.

Using it that way is very like riding an ordinary bike, changing down for hills and pushing a bit harder up them and into headwinds.

If I wanted a button pushing gadget fest on my rides I'd buy a Garmin.


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Thanks, I will test one out. I liked the Kalkhoff Impulse Drive but see no reason why the Bosch wouldn't be just as good. 
I already have a Garmin... I never press any buttons except the start/stop tho despite having many screens programmed with myriad possibilities of info. And I ditched the heart rate monitor a few years ago. Decided I could quite easily tell when things were getting hard without the need to be told on a screen as well. :-)


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## Pale Rider (29 Apr 2015)

The Impulse 2 has a gear change assist feature which drops the power momentarily before changes.

Never tried it, but it is supposed to make for smoother changes.

On a derailleur Bosch bike I tend to 'soft pedal' changes, as I do on an ordinary derailleur bike.

On the hub Bosch bike, stopping pedalling before changes works well, possibly leaving an extra fraction a second for the motor to cut out.

Again, it's how I would ride an ordinary hub gear bike, although I think Shimano say you can change the Alfine 11 while still pedalling.


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## Chrisc (29 Apr 2015)

Yeah, it's the same thing they introduced to racing motorcycles in the early 90's so they didn't have to use the clutch during a race other than to start, used to be called a quickshifter. The Kalkhoff I rode didn't have it, it was a later development and I did have trouble selecting gears under load having got myself onto a hill in the wrong one. :-) 
I soft pedal my dutch bike like that but in my eagerness to blitz the hills I got carried away! I find the ability to change whilst stationary a benefit in traffic on a commute tho, I know you can easily plan it out and I do on my road bike but it's nice to have one less thing to think about on a commute. 
Missus wants me to get a small car to commute but I can't see me sitting in those queues all morning, it would kill me!


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## Salad Dodger (30 Apr 2015)

My wife and I both have human powered MTB's and also electric bikes. 

I prefer riding the MTB: lighter, more comfortable and I enjoy the exercise. But the ebike is great for shopping as it has 2 big panniers, plus I can arrive at the shops not all hot and bothered by the ride.

My wife, with a slightly gammy knee and hip, is perfectly happy to ride her ebike for local duties. I suspect I would encounter quite a bit of objection if I suggested she ride the same route on her MTB. But with the ebike, it's no problem. As long as the trip is within battery range. Which is about 15 or 16 miles total journey.


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## steveindenmark (17 May 2015)

I dont know why but a lot of people seem to think you need to be old or infirm to have an Electric bike. I think that is down to bad promotion by the manufacturers.

Jannie and I have both had Electric bikes and they were great fun.

I ride a round trip commute of 36km each day on my road bike. Jannies commute is about 12 km and she does it every day of the year regardless of how much snow or rain there is. So we are not unfit or infirm, on the contrary.

It was just fun to pack our sandwiches and flask and go for a 50 km ride in the country, without Breaking into a sweat. I have used it to ride to work at 4 am in the morning. It made life a bit easier.

Those who claim they would never have one ought to experience one before judging.


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## anothersam (20 May 2015)

My wife has a Kalkhoff Agattu, about 4 years old now. It's great. I've taken it out a few times ostensibly just to test it out after working on it, and it's a lot of fun once I get over my shock at sitting upright. It has a basket in front which I feel should be filled with kittens or something. 







This was the ebike she had before, impressively non-ebike-like if ebikes turn you off. It was nice when it was working.


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## Full Metal Sprocket (12 Jun 2015)

Never really had a problem with e-bikes.Even when I bumped into "Electric Alan".I don't know if he's the same guy who posts on here.Met him riding up the Blackfriars Underpass a few years back,towards Big Ben (said he had knee problems).Then when I visited Karon Beach in Thailand a few years back I had an opportunity to hire out an electric bike as that's all they had.As my fitness was poor at the time they came in quite useful for the hills up to Phuket and I was quite impressed.Even more of my work colleagues now have electric bikes.I think there are three ebike users there now.


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