# Beaten by a 15 yr old...



## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

That`s me just back from doing the Bealach Beag and was in awe of the winner, a young bloke who did the course in 2hrs 22 - it took me 3hrs 37 - I`m 48, 6ft and 13st, he was 15 and looked about 6st wet lol

He climbed the Bealach in about 30 mins, I took nearly an hour! And once I got down the other side, the remaining climbs were a slog!

So, what can I do to improve my climbing? I realise it`s not just as simple as "do more climbing". Are there any training techiques to help me improve?


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## Racing roadkill (19 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> That`s me just back from doing the Bealach Beag and was in awe of the winner, a young bloke who did the course in 2hrs 22 - it took me 3hrs 37 - I`m 48, 6ft and 13st, he was 15 and looked about 6st wet lol
> 
> He climbed the Bealach in about 30 mins, I took nearly an hour! And once I got down the other side, the remaining climbs were a slog!
> 
> So, what can I do to improve my climbing? I realise it`s not just as simple as "do more climbing". Are there any training techiques to help me improve?


All you can do, in these circumstances, is MTFU. That, and learn to use your gears effectively of course.


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## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

Racing roadkill said:


> All you can do, in these circumstances, is MTFU. That, and learn to use your gears effectively of course.



I had no gears left to use lol


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## midlife (19 Apr 2015)

Beaten by a 15 year old, so was I BITD ...... Google Dean Butler !

Shaun


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## raleighnut (19 Apr 2015)

Invent a time machine that can transform your body back to that of a 15yr old.


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## Drago (19 Apr 2015)

Steroids, blood doping, and amphetamines are the only likely way of beating a teen. Just enjoy the ride.


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## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

I have no intention of trying to beat him or even get close to him, I just want to improve my own climbing abilities


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## Citius (19 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> That`s me just back from doing the Bealach Beag and was in awe of the winner, a young bloke who did the course in 2hrs 22 - it took me 3hrs 37 - I`m 48, 6ft and 13st, he was 15 and looked about 6st wet lol
> 
> He climbed the Bealach in about 30 mins, I took nearly an hour! And once I got down the other side, the remaining climbs were a slog!
> 
> So, what can I do to improve my climbing? I realise it`s not just as simple as "do more climbing". Are there any training techiques to help me improve?



If you've ever watched any youth racing, you'd know that being beaten by a 15yo is no shame at all. The lad is much younger, much lighter and - by the sound of it - much fitter than you.

To improve your climbing, you can do a number of things including riding more, riding harder, riding longer, or all of those things in various combinations, according to your commitment and available free time. You can also lose weight, if that is an option. Difficult to be any more specific really.


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## Pedrosanchezo (19 Apr 2015)

Sheesh cry me a river!! I get my butt handed to me weekly by a 14 year old on anything steeper than 4-5%. I'm not all that slow either!! 
Though in my defence he is the leading Scottish junior at that age group. Still frightening!!


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## edindave (19 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> Are there any training techiques to help me improve?



Yeah, a time machine


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## ayceejay (19 Apr 2015)

Actually doing more hills in your training IS part of your answer and you can add intervals or repeats for variety. As for technique a high cadence is worth a try as is trying to stay seated. learning, to relax your shoulders is a good practice as is loosening your grip bending your arms and changing hand position as these save energy that should be going to the legs.


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## totallyfixed (19 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> That`s me just back from doing the Bealach Beag and was in awe of the winner, a young bloke who did the course in 2hrs 22 - it took me 3hrs 37 - I`m 48, 6ft and 13st, he was 15 and looked about 6st wet lol
> 
> He climbed the Bealach in about 30 mins, I took nearly an hour! And once I got down the other side, the remaining climbs were a slog!
> 
> So, what can I do to improve my climbing? I realise it`s not just as simple as "do more climbing". Are there any training techiques to help me improve?


All you can do is "MTFU"??? It's always useful to know you can come on here and get useless advice, what a ridiculous answer. There is a lot you can do to improve your hill climbing. Sure, climbing lots of hills helps but if your technique is poor then you are limited.


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## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> All you can do is "MTFU"??? It's always useful to know you can come on here and get useless advice, what a ridiculous answer. There is a lot you can do to improve your hill climbing. Sure, climbing lots of hills helps but if your technique is poor then you are limited.



What should I be looking at to improve technique then. I do my best to go in a straight line, try to relax and keep telling myself to "pull up" on the up-stroke of pedalling. I also try to keep my breathing under control by counting out loud lol


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## Citius (19 Apr 2015)

I don't really know what 'technique' means in this context, but all the technique in the world won't make up for a lack of fitness, and consciously trying to 'pull up' is a waste of time. Don't try to control your breathing - just breathe as much and as often as your body needs to. In other words, let it do its thing.


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## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

I`m fairly fit - can do 10 miles in 25 mins if going hell for leather and have done 100 miles in under 6 hrs (obviously on the flat lol)


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## Citius (19 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I`m fairly fit - can do 10 miles in 25 mins if going hell for leather and have done 100 miles in under 6 hrs (obviously on the flat lol)



If you're 'fairly fit' then don't worry about it and just accept that some other people will always be 'fairly fitter'. But if you want to go up Bealach quicker, you're going to need to be able to hold a higher power output for a longer period of time than you can now.


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## Sunny Portrush (19 Apr 2015)

Oh, I fully accept there are loads out there way better then me, I just want to improve my abilities at going up!


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## Hacienda71 (19 Apr 2015)

Lose some weight. You can hide a few pounds on the flat. Much harder to hide it in the hills.


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## totallyfixed (19 Apr 2015)

Look, it is impossible to advise via a keyboard without actually seeing you in action so to speak, I coach one of the most successful amateurs in the country in hill climbing and have given advice to many people over the years. Those that have ridden with us will know how we perform in the hills, this is not bragging, it's just what we do. There is a fair chance I will be in Edinburgh on Sat 2nd May and could have a little time to spare.
Two pointers that few people take into account, you have to completely comfortable and at one with your bike and secondly, psychologically there should be no fear of hills, just the opposite, both are important factors.


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## Hacienda71 (19 Apr 2015)

Controlling your inner chimp.


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## totallyfixed (19 Apr 2015)

Precisely.


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## Edwardoka (20 Apr 2015)

I wouldn't worry too much about it, a lot of people were beaten by a 15 year old on Saturday! (I suspect that it's not the last we've heard of him.)

I noticed some people who were clearly struggling even on the less steep parts of the Bealach and I imagine they suffered massively when it ramped up.

Controlled breathing, relaxed posture, and relatively high cadence stood me in far greater stead than I could possibly have hoped, although when it ramped up to 19% right before the hairpins, without even a hint of a breeze I ended up overheating and had to stop, ended up losing about 40 places on the climb as a result.

Anyway, don't concentrate on what other people are doing, just do the best you can - and congrats for finishing!


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## MrGrumpy (20 Apr 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Lose some weight. You can hide a few pounds on the flat. Much harder to hide it in the hills.


LOL that `s me  . The OP is 13st and same height as me, what I would give to be 13st :/


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## ColinJ (20 Apr 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Lose some weight. You can hide a few pounds on the flat. Much harder to hide it in the hills.


Indeed!

I am 6' 1" tall and have lost a lot of weight recently. I used to suffer a lot on the local climbs when I weighed 16+ stone. Getting down to Sunny Portrush's weight (13 stone) made a huge difference. Since then I have lost another stone and at 12 stone, climbing is easier still.

I reckon I need to lose at least another 0.5 stone to be at my fittest. I am a medium build - not massively muscular, and not scrawny either. Assuming that Sunny Portrush is also a medium build, then there is scope for losing ~1.5 stone, which would make a huge difference to his climbing. (Obviously that number might be a bit higher or lower depending on exact body type.)


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## Licramite (20 Apr 2015)

To improve your hill climbing speed - Find less steep hills.

Although having a 60ton arctic up your arse going up a narrow lane speeds your hill climbing ability no end!


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## Licramite (20 Apr 2015)

ColinJ said:


> Indeed!
> 
> I am 6' 1" tall and have lost a lot of weight recently. I used to suffer a lot on the local climbs when I weighed 16+ stone. Getting down to Sunny Portrush's weight (13 stone) made a huge difference. Since then I have lost another stone and at 12 stone, climbing is easier still.
> 
> I reckon I need to lose at least another 0.5 stone to be at my fittest. I am a medium build - not massively muscular, and not scrawny either. Assuming that Sunny Portrush is also a medium build, then there is scope for losing ~1.5 stone, which would make a huge difference to his climbing. (Obviously that number might be a bit higher or lower depending on exact body type.)


 
Agree entirely on the weight thing - thats why the youngies beat us every time - weight power ratio.

Recently had a deep colonoscopy - lost 1/2stone in 3days (though I wouldn't recommend it as a weight loss programme)
Did prove my mate wrong (and many on this site) - I'm not fully of shoot - well not any more


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## Mugshot (20 Apr 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> Two pointers that few people take into account, you have to completely comfortable and at one with your bike and secondly, psychologically there should be no fear of hills, just the opposite, both are important factors.


I'm no coach however I have to agree that the psychological aspect is huge, or at least I've found it is, the same hill on a different day can be a grind or a spin to the top and it usually boils down to whether I've let it beat me before I've even started up it. Even when I've started a climb if I shift my attitude and giving myself a bit of a talking to I can generally dig a bit deeper resulting in an increase in cadence, speed and comfort.


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## ColinJ (20 Apr 2015)

Mugshot said:


> I'm no coach however I have to agree that the psychological aspect is huge, or at least I've found it is, the same hill on a different day can be a grind or a spin to the top and it usually boils down to whether I've let it beat me before I've even started up it.


When I first got back on a bike in 1989, it took me 3 attempts to ride from Hebden Bridge up the hill to the village of Pecket Well. Having eventually succeeded, I knew that I could do it so I have never struggled on that climb since. 

That is not just due to improved fitness, because I got up it first time on my comeback from life-threatening illness at a time when I was lacking any significant strength or fitness. What I did have was the knowledge of what the hill is like, how to pace myself up it, and that I could do it.

It is only super-steep climbs that are a problem now. There is always going to be a gradient that causes problems. In my case, I find 25+% very hard. I can cope with 20%, and do not have a problem with 15%. Other people might consider a 10% climb to be a killer, which it can be if it is long enough and low enough gears are not available on the bike.


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## Dan B (20 Apr 2015)

Hacienda71 said:


> Controlling your inner chimp.


I make my inner chimp give me a tow.


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## Sittingduck (20 Apr 2015)

1. Increase fitness
2. Drop a bit of weight, if poss


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## Citius (20 Apr 2015)

Sittingduck said:


> 1. Increase fitness
> 2. Drop a bit of weight, if poss



Agree with this. The _'wax on - wax off'_ stuff is all very well, but it doesn't compensate for fitness and tolerance at threshold.


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## Sunny Portrush (20 Apr 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> Look, it is impossible to advise via a keyboard without actually seeing you in action so to speak, I coach one of the most successful amateurs in the country in hill climbing and have given advice to many people over the years. Those that have ridden with us will know how we perform in the hills, this is not bragging, it's just what we do. There is a fair chance I will be in Edinburgh on Sat 2nd May and could have a little time to spare.
> Two pointers that few people take into account, you have to completely comfortable and at one with your bike and secondly, psychologically there should be no fear of hills, just the opposite, both are important factors.



I do feel comfortable on the bike and I`m definitely not scared of them - there is one rather steep climb of about a mile round here that I do reps on but I have to do it at least 7 times in order to equal the length of climbing the Bealach and I get to recover each time I come down. And being a competitive bugger, I try to beat each uphill climb in an attempt to improve!

I wont actually be in Edinburgh on 2nd May but thank you anyway - we could have raced up Arthur`s Seat and you could have waited at the top for me lol


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## nickyboy (21 Apr 2015)

There's only three things you need to concentrate on:
1) Your fitness. How many watts can you sustain. That really only comes from training.
2) Your weight. On a steepish long hill, all that matters is watts/kg. You can train your watts up but you should try to get your kg down
3) Mental toughness. Don't underestimate this. The ability to maintain a high effort for an extended period needs mental toughness not to ease off


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## Sunny Portrush (21 Apr 2015)

I dont think No.3 is a problem as I actually qyite like cycling up hills! No.1 and 2 I can work on.

I'm not particularly technically minded when it comes to my bike so I thought I would check out the gearing on it. The only numbers I can see are 50/34T on the crankset, is that good, bad or indifferent. FWIW, the bile is a Cannondale Synapse Tiagra 2014

After some thought, I`ve realised that`s probably the teeth on the two chain-rings - told you I was very good at this kind of thing. There does appear to be some numbers stamped on the actual cassette but I`ll have to wait until my son comes home so he can read them - I would count them but I`m now back in y office


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## Citius (21 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I'm not particularly technically minded when it comes to my bike so I thought I would check out the gearing on it. The only numbers I can see are 50/34T on the crankset, is that good, bad or indifferent.



You're the one riding it - you tell us?


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## BRounsley (21 Apr 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28363129

I found this article interesting. I read it as - a typical “climber” had a higher sustainable power to weight where a typical “sprinter” had a much higher peak power to weight. On a long climb a sprinter can’t maintain that higher/peak output so all that extra muscle power (and weight) become extra ballast and gravity works it’s magic.

So a 15 years is probably more a typical climber physiology.

My suggestion is extreme equipment weigh saving - so only ride in Speedos and don’t bother mixing your energy drink with water,just eat the powder on the bike....that and a pre-ride dump!!!


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## Sunny Portrush (21 Apr 2015)

I was rather good at going downhill and on the flat - so much so that on every other climb round the coast (there`s at least 6 or 7), I would get dropped by the people in front of me. I would then zoom past them on the descent and on the flat, only for them to pass me on the incline again!


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## ColinJ (21 Apr 2015)

Sunny Portrush said:


> I was rather good at going downhill and on the flat - so much so that on every other climb round the coast (there`s at least 6 or 7), I would get dropped by the people in front of me. I would then zoom past them on the descent and on the flat, only for them to pass me on the incline again!


Ha ha ...



ColinJ said:


> A great example of that was on a holiday on the Costa Blanca a few years back. I was grovelling up a huge hill when a skinny female cyclist shot past me about half a mile from the summit. When I finally got to the top, I could see her way ahead of me on the descent. I set off in pursuit and caught her up by the time she was half way down. I overtook her at 50 mph, barely even pedalling. I looked back and her legs were spinning round at a ridiculously high cadence and she couldn't get close to me. When the road flattened off, I slowed down and she finally caught up and asked how that was possible. She'd been spinning out in her highest gear. I asked how much she weighed and her weight was 7 stone. I weighed about 13.5 stone at the time...





I have noticed how much slower I am descending now that I have lost weight. I chased @nickyboy down off Holme Moss last year and could not stay with him. When I was heavier, I had to brake to limit my speed to 50 mph going down there!


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## iamRayRay (21 Apr 2015)

Drago said:


> Steroids, blood doping, and amphetamines are the only likely way of beating a teen. Just enjoy the ride.



Take him out, it's like a big lorry vs smart car lol!!!


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## nickyboy (21 Apr 2015)

ColinJ said:


> Ha ha ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't forget I was quicker UP Holme Moss too. Despite lugging that ridiculously heavy rucksack for you! However, hearing of your continuing weight loss that may have to be consigned to history. I'm same weight as always


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## ColinJ (21 Apr 2015)

nickyboy said:


> Don't forget I was quicker UP Holme Moss too. Despite lugging that ridiculously heavy rucksack for you! However, hearing of your continuing weight loss that may have to be consigned to history. I'm same weight as always


Yes, you did impress me that day! Climbing well with your own weight PLUS the rucksack ...

I am getting better but my back is still letting me down. I'm working on it ...


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## Globalti (22 Apr 2015)

My son aged 16 can beat me up climbs but then he only weighs 9 stone whereas I weigh 11 1/2 stone. What he and his pals lack though is stamina, both because they tend to rush up hils and because they just don't have the stored reserves, I guess.


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