# Giro d'italia SPOILER



## montage (9 May 2010)

Long, flat.

What started out as looking like a fairly dull race has been spiced up with a fair few crashes!
Not sure if any have pulled out the race - but the rabobank rider looking like he wasn't going anywhere fast!


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## montage (9 May 2010)

Bradley is down! Just as I wrote this I flicked back onto the race and saw a huge amount of the peloton pile up. Most of team sky seemed to be on the floor, with bradley included. Anybody with english commentry care to elaborate? He is back on the bike and seems ok, are the rest of team sky?


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## mr Mag00 (9 May 2010)

shocking roads, while on earth are they using these


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## gavintc (9 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> shocking roads, while on earth are they using these



It does seem to be full of dodgy street furniture. Sadly, I am watching the Italian version and my italian is still not up to standard.


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## Dayvo (9 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> shocking roads, while on earth are they using these





The canals and dykes are too wet!


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## mr Mag00 (9 May 2010)

very good Dayvo


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## rich p (9 May 2010)

SKY seem to be working very hard on the front. They won't be able to keep that up every day!


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## Dayvo (9 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> shocking roads, while on earth are they using these



Serious reply this time! 

I agree, but more to do with the number of pinch-points causing unnecessary congestion and lack of flow. 

Plus there have been a few too many small pile-ups. Hope the finish isn't on or near a tight and narrow corner.


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## marinyork (9 May 2010)

Harman didn't say much at all about the crash(es). Bah another one as I type that!


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## mr Mag00 (9 May 2010)

oh ffs!


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## Dayvo (9 May 2010)

Big one just now!


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## gavintc (9 May 2010)

looked horrific - one rider was practically naked as he rode away with his shorts and shirt in shreds.


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## Dayvo (9 May 2010)

WTF is going on? There are crashes everywhere!


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## gavintc (9 May 2010)

Wiggins in 2nd group


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## marinyork (9 May 2010)

Farrar did well to win that after that earlier crash, at least there was enough time. Shame about the 2nd group.


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## montage (9 May 2010)

how much time did wiggins lose?
Guess he is out of the pink now after all that hard work from team sky


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## gavintc (9 May 2010)

Evans in pink


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## raindog (9 May 2010)

Got to be questions asked about the sanity of 180 odd guys riding flat out on these kind of roads. I'll feel easier when we get to Italy.


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## claver58 (9 May 2010)

David Millar is 5th in GC


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## marinyork (9 May 2010)

Wiggins is at 32" down on the GC.


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## montage (9 May 2010)

Guess he will be saving himself for the tour then


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## marinyork (9 May 2010)

Some of the other big names lost time like vandervelde 24", Sastre 57". A shame but not be too worried.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 May 2010)

Well Farrar was my pick today, so my fantasy squad is doing pretty well!


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## montage (9 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well Farrar was my pick today, so my fantasy squad is doing pretty well!



Nearly picked farrar - damn


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## Dayvo (9 May 2010)

montage said:


> Nearly picked farrar - damn



I did pick him, then dropped him at the last moment for Brobridge!


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## lukesdad (9 May 2010)

Sky got that all wrong IMO. Should have let the sprinters teams shut the break down and do the work. Should have done what Liquigas did and protected their main man, just off the front.Then hit the front in last 20 ks. Bradley s gonna be on his own in the tour if he doesnt get them sorted out.

Cos if he doesnt Astana and Saxobank are gonna rip them to pieces.


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## Keith Oates (10 May 2010)

It will be interesting to see what Sky will try to do for the rest of the Giro, but I suppose any question of Wiggins going full out to win has now been settled. They do seem to be short of a good tactician either in the team or in the tream car, but it's early days so we will need to wait and see how things develop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BigSteev (10 May 2010)

So much for those lovely safe Dutch roads for cycling then! Can't recall seeing so many people come off their bikes in one day since I used to race BMX.


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## dodgy (10 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> So much for those lovely safe Dutch roads for cycling then!



Watch near the end when the vehicle passes the team about 3:20 in.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEyBjV2eeA


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> So much for those lovely safe Dutch roads for cycling then! Can't recall seeing so many people come off their bikes in one day since I used to race BMX.



Most Dutch people cycle on the excellent separated cycle lanes, not on the roads - which as you can see, are not really maintained for bikes (and also have lots of tramlines too).


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## mr Mag00 (10 May 2010)

when will they get to mountains


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## BigSteev (10 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Most Dutch people cycle on the excellent separated cycle lanes, not on the roads - which as you can see, are not really maintained for bikes (and also have lots of tramlines too).



I should probably have included one of those smilie things to indicate that my tongue was firmly in cheek. I've cycled in Holland so am aware of the non-suitability of their roads for cycling.
Anyway, any ideas how I can quickly improve my Italian so the commentary doesn't sound so much like "blah-blah-blah Bradleeee Weeeegens blah-blah' ?


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> "blah-blah-blah Bradleeee Weeeegens blah-blah' ?



You could do what Cav did and start dating an Italian model.


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## mr Mag00 (10 May 2010)

Sky riders on the deck!


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## montage (10 May 2010)

wiggins on the floor. again.

Looked like Evans went down with him - great effort by Evans to get back into the bunch - seemed to drop Wiggins as if he was standing :s


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## BigSteev (10 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You could do what Cav did and start dating an Italian model.



Good plan! 

Wiggins amongst the fallers. (again!)


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## mr Mag00 (10 May 2010)

i think they should go 'slow' as a protest these roads are not suitable


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## montage (10 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> i think they should go 'slow' as a protest these roads are not suitable



because flat stages are not boring enough already..


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## montage (10 May 2010)

looks like wiggins may lose even more time in the GC if he can't get onto the main bunch


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Adam Blyth of Omega was 5th today and David Millar is 3rd on GC. I think I remember Blyth from Track racing in Revolution. Possibly an ex-DHL Future Stars rider - well done.


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Wiggins loses about 4 mins.


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Evans loses about 47 secs on GC


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Vino takes the stage win and Wouter Wieerheldt (No - but something like that) got the stage win.
Say Goodbye to Holland and let's hope it'll be a long time before we see such poorly designed and thought-out stages


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## Haitch (10 May 2010)

claver58 said:


> Say Goodbye to Holland and let's hope it'll be a long time before we see such poorly designed and thought-out stages




The Tour de France starts on 3 July.


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Sorry the winner was Wouter Weylandt - Anyone ever heard of him??


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## redddraggon (10 May 2010)

claver58 said:


> Sorry the winner was Wouter Weylandt - Anyone ever heard of him??



Yes


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## Sysagent (10 May 2010)

Another chaotic day for the Pro's in the flat roads of Holland wasn't it, mind you it's always the same in the first week of the Giro.

Could this be the first Grand Tour win that Vino gets on his return to the Peloton?

Mmm will throw a few cats amongst the pigeons won't it if he does get the final GC.

Feel really sorry for Wiggo, seems that Lady Luck isn't with him on this one, but it will be good practise for the TdF when the opening stages will be similar, I can see the likes of Contador and Armstrong struggling on this territory and it will take great team tactics to keep them out of trouble, something the Sky team just don't seem to have susses yet.

Also why is it Evans is always on his own???


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## redddraggon (10 May 2010)

Nibali could give this a damn good shot, he's right up there, and Leakygas should do alright in the TTT.


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

Sysagent said:


> Also why is it Evans is always on his own???



I've also noticed that he never seems to have any teammates.
All in all he has done so well to keep up entirely on his own.
Chapeau to him.


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## johnsss (10 May 2010)

5th place for my boy Adam Blythe today.


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## claver58 (10 May 2010)

His palmares is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Blythe


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## BigSteev (10 May 2010)

Wonder how Lizzie feels about you refering to him as your boy.


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## Dayvo (10 May 2010)

claver58 said:


> Sorry the winner was Wouter Weylandt - Anyone ever heard of him??



No!

But he's in my Velogames team!


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## rich p (10 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> No!
> 
> But he's in my Velogames team!



respect, Dayvo!


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## rich p (10 May 2010)

Apparently Greipel threatened to punch Weylandts after for not contributing. What a tosser. When did Greipel ever contribute and why should Weylandts when HTC had 5 riders in the lead.
Greipel was just not quick enough, he was in A1 position. 
Maybe Cav was right about him after all!


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## Will1985 (10 May 2010)

Sysagent said:


> Feel really sorry for Wiggo, seems that Lady Luck isn't with him on this one


At least he hasn't broken his collarbone....


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## montage (10 May 2010)

Will1985 said:


> At least he hasn't broken his collarbone....



who did?


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## redddraggon (10 May 2010)

montage said:


> who did?



CVV


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## Dayvo (10 May 2010)

montage said:


> who did?



Thor Hushovd (amongst others, I expect).

http://road.cc/content/news/17352-thor-hushovd-breaks-collar-bone-out-weeks-tour-california


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2010)

Millar now third on GC and not doing much wrong right now.


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## johnsss (10 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> Wonder how Lizzie feels about you refering to him as your boy.



If she objects she can always come round to my house and explain why.


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## lukesdad (10 May 2010)

Lot going to depend on the TTT.Cant see BMC doing well,and Garmin are going to miss CVV. The Kazacs will give it everything for Vino. How much of an advantage is he going to have after 4 days? He s in good form, Its looking ominous allready!


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## John the Monkey (10 May 2010)

redddraggon said:


> CVV



He had that horrendous crash on Day 3 of last year's Giro too.

Gutted for him.


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## rich p (10 May 2010)

Cuddles et al should be able to distance the Kazakh in the steep mountains.


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## lukesdad (10 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Cuddles et al should be able to distance the Kazakh in the steep mountains.



Hope so, but,.....Im not so sure.


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## mangaman (10 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Millar now third on GC and not doing much wrong right now.



Yes agree - off the radar but has a chance of a decent finish.

Depends, sadly, I feel on how "super-charged" people like Basso and Vino are on the high mountains.

If everone is clean (ho ho) he could hang in there (of course I'm not suggesting Dave's mister clean himself) and hold his own in the hills and kick some ass in the TTs


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## ChristinaJL (11 May 2010)

I'll be glad when they get to the mountains, I don't like watching stages when so many riders crash out. Seems to me, the organisers don't really care if riders break bones.


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## raindog (11 May 2010)

I don't think there's much chance of Millar staying near the front in the mountains. Have you seen some of the climbs for this year? The finish of stage 15 should sort them out all right - there's a section of 22% and 6 ks at an average of 15%.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/93rd-giro-ditalia-gt/stage-15


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## moxey (11 May 2010)

dodgy said:


> Watch near the end when the vehicle passes the team about 3:20 in.
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEyBjV2eeA




Bloody hell !!!!!!!! Wiggo was  and rightly so


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## yello (11 May 2010)

raindog said:


> I don't think there's much chance of Millar staying near the front in the mountains.



Me neither. Climbing is not his strong suit... and there are hills and then there are hills... also from raindog's link


> it averages 11.5 per cent for 10km



Fingers crossed for him and Garmin in the TTT though. 

On which subject, what happens when a team has riders abandoned? I guess they have to ride with those they have left... but what happens if they have fewer than the 'minimum'? That is, I think the team time is given on the 5th ride over the line (or perhaps different tournament by tournament) - what if they only have 4 riders? I guess it has to be the 4th rider's time. TTT rules are complicated, I know that much!!


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## johnr (11 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Maybe Cav was right about him after all!



Sorry, that just doesn't compute.


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## redddraggon (11 May 2010)

yello said:


> Me neither. Climbing is not his strong suit... and there are hills and then there are hills... also from raindog's link
> 
> Fingers crossed for him and Garmin in the TTT though.
> 
> On which subject, what happens when a team has riders abandoned? I guess they have to ride with those they have left... but what happens if they have fewer than the 'minimum'? That is, I think the team time is given on the 5th ride over the line (or perhaps different tournament by tournament) - what if they only have 4 riders? I guess it has to be the 4th rider's time. TTT rules are complicated, I know that much!!



If the team has less than 5 riders in the TTT, they are probably going to get hammered anyway, so I doubt they'd be penalised anymore.


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## raindog (12 May 2010)

TTT today. Sky to win?


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

Sky look like they are going very well today, but Katusha just posted a monster time... Garmin way back in 5th right now


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

Sky 14 seconds faster than Katusha - that will take some beating, I think.


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## Sysagent (12 May 2010)

Looks like Sky have got this in the bag... Will give Murdoch a smile as they are getting some pretty good exposure on this Tour.


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## dodgy (12 May 2010)

Sysagent said:


> Looks like Sky have got this in the bag... Will give Murdoch a smile as they are getting some pretty good exposure on this Tour.



Too soon - Liquigas have gone ahead.


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## Sysagent (12 May 2010)

Spoke to soon, looks like LeakyGas have got their program sorted, close up then on one of them and he wasn't even out of breath...

;-(


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

Nibali was of course one of the names bandied around the recent drugs scandal in Italy... although nothing ultimately surfaced about him! But the fact is, Sky just didn't go fast enough on the day.


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## raindog (12 May 2010)

Great ride from Liquigas - sure made the Italian commentators happy!


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

What's the betting Astana take this at the last?


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## raindog (12 May 2010)

I was wondering that myself, but can't really see it happening.


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## raindog (12 May 2010)

Crikey - Astana fell apart in the last kilometre


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## Speicher (12 May 2010)

The fifth man in Astana was five or was it fifteen metres behind Vinokourov. I guess they won't be sitting together at dinner tonight.


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## biking_fox (12 May 2010)

What happened to Astana? How on earth does a pro outfit dribble across the line in ones and twos?


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## Sysagent (12 May 2010)

LOL@Vino


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## BigSteev (12 May 2010)

Excellent - Vino out of pink and out of patience with his team mates by the look of it. What a shame.


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## aJohnson (12 May 2010)

Oh what a shame, Vino out of pink and upset with a team mate


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## rich p (12 May 2010)

Where's the merit in abandoning your no.5 man in a team event and then throwing your arms about. Twat. The Slovene was clearly busting a gut even though he'd blown or was cooooooked as Sean Kelly said.


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## yello (12 May 2010)

Praps Vino should have made sure they all had the same pre-match meal


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

yello said:


> Praps Vino should have made sure they all had the same pre-match meal



Boeuf a l'epo? 

This all puts Basso in a surprisingly nice position.


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## raindog (12 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This all puts Basso in a surprisingly nice position.


What about Nibali? Isn't he supposed to be red hot in the mountains? And he's 26 - just old enough to start asserting himself. Or do you think he'll have to ride for Basso, even if he's feeling stronger than him? Be nice to see a bit of inter team rivalry.
And Vino's still only 30 odd seconds down.......


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## lukesdad (12 May 2010)

Very interesting team time trial. So most of the teams tried to follow what Garmin did last year, Waste your nearly men at the start and save your big engines for the finnish. Works fine when you ve got 4 world class tt ers in the final 5, afraid it doesnt when you havnt Sky nearly managed it , but the team that won bought all 9 to the last kilometre.


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

raindog said:


> What about Nibali? Isn't he supposed to be red hot in the mountains? And he's 26 - just old enough to start asserting himself. Or do you think he'll have to ride for Basso, even if he's feeling stronger than him? Be nice to see a bit of inter team rivalry.



I think Nibali is actually the stronger rider (for reasons about which we might wish to speculate...) but he was a late addition to the squad and Basso is the team leader, I think.


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## lukesdad (12 May 2010)

Well if Vino s prepared to do that to his own team..... Guess what he s going to do in the mountains. Either they try to go with him or hope he blows up. Evans is doing too much work its only the first week.Playing nicely into the hands of a certain LIKEABLE spaniard IMO just sat quietly in the line of Cervelo, he s not worried about the time he s losing he can make it up in the mountains. He ll get better as he race goes on. Viva Carlos.


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## rich p (12 May 2010)

I do so hope he gets caught again!


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Well if Vino s prepared to do that to his own team..... Guess what he s going to do in the mountains. Either they try to go with him or hope he blows up. Evans is doing too much work its only the first week.Playing nicely into the hands of a certain LIKEABLE spaniard IMO just sat quietly in the line of Cervelo, he s not worried about the time he s losing he can make it up in the mountains. He ll get better as he race goes on. Viva Carlos.



I hope so - he's on my squad!


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## lukesdad (12 May 2010)

rich p said:


> I do so hope he gets caught again!


Don t you know someone...? RP


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## rich p (12 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Don t you know someone...? RP



Do I?


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## John the Monkey (12 May 2010)

Yep, who knew Leaky would turn out to be the new force in Team Time Trials eh?

Whoddathunkit.


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## rich p (12 May 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> Yep, who knew Leaky would turn out to be the new force in Team Time Trials eh?
> 
> Whoddathunkit.



Are you implying that Pelizotti was not the only Leaky Gas rider who was well prepared?


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## John the Monkey (12 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Are you implying that Pelizotti was not the only Leaky Gas rider who was well prepared?



Perish the thought RichP. I'm sure they all just tried EXTRA hard, and REALLY wanted the win. Innit.


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## raindog (13 May 2010)

I thought Liqui along with Sky, Katusha and Columbia were favourites for the TTT?


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## John the Monkey (13 May 2010)

raindog said:


> I thought Liqui along with Sky, Katusha and Columbia were favourites for the TTT?


It probably says more about my punditry than Liqui, tbh.

Still, I dislike Liquigas, and there's a fair chance that's colouring my perceptions here. Basso in second. Meh.


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## lukesdad (13 May 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> It probably says more about my punditry than Liqui, tbh.
> 
> Still, I dislike Liquigas, and there's a fair chance that's colouring my perceptions here. Basso in second. Meh.


Probably the Lime Green kit JtM,never liked it myself.

At least Ive got black in mine..Overthere <<<<


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## iLB (13 May 2010)

brad answers the phone in the middle of the TTT, no wonder they came second


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## Flying_Monkey (13 May 2010)

Woo-hoo - go my boy, Arashiro - doing one of his trademark hopeless escapes today. Shame you don't get points for that on the fantasy Giro!


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## Flying_Monkey (13 May 2010)

But he's still there with 2.25 at 20km to go - that's possible... but only three left in the break now.


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## BigSteev (13 May 2010)

Not so hopeless after all.


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## Flying_Monkey (13 May 2010)

Yeah - he didn't get the win he deserved with all the work he did, but Arashiro gets 3rd. My choice to include him doesn't look quite so stupidly romantic now!


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## mr Mag00 (13 May 2010)

well well well


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## raindog (13 May 2010)

WWHHHHOOOOOOOO 
Anyone see that? Not often a break gets away with that so close to the line. A slight lack of organisation in the peleton near the end or they would've been caught.
Made my day that has.
And well done Pineau - a great win!!!!


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## toekneep (13 May 2010)

One of the more exciting finishes in my experience. That kick at 1.5km was seriously impressive and I doubt the peleton were expecting it at all.


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## Flying_Monkey (13 May 2010)

It's just a shame Arashiro didn't get the win that kick deserved...


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## biking_fox (14 May 2010)

And another breakaway win. Well done Lloyd for a draining fight to the finish.

Do the Sprinters not want stage wins this year?


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## mr Mag00 (14 May 2010)

good stage today like the long lone( well 2) rides!


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## raindog (14 May 2010)

Nice old fashioned type win from Lloyd there - well done lad.

That was a much hillier stage than it looked from the profile. Some short but killer climbs near the end. No way would a sprinter have won today.


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## Flying_Monkey (14 May 2010)

Yeah, I am liking the 'old-fashioned' feel of the stages so far. A lot for all-rounders and riders prepared to take a chance.


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## Keith Oates (15 May 2010)

A good win by Lloyd and nice to see another break make it all the way. BTW is Wiggins related to Denis Menchov!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mangaman (15 May 2010)

Keith Oates said:


> A good win by Lloyd and nice to see another break make it all the way. BTW is Wiggins related to Denis Menchov!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I don't understand that one Keith, sorry.

What are you implying?


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> I don't understand that one Keith, sorry.
> 
> What are you implying?



His ability to fall off at the drop of a hat I think!


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## raindog (15 May 2010)

LOL he does seem to be hitting the deck alot lately.

Today's stage should be interesting - plenty of lumps near the end which should see some good attacking. 
Just read this....
"Today's route has real spice. It pays tribute to Tuscany's own Gino Bartali on the tenth anniversary of his death by including sections on many of his favourite training roads around his home in Ponte a Ema, close to Florence"


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

I hope Wiggo has a bit of an effort when it gets to the mountains an doesn't just treat it as a training run. He's the only TdF GC contender who hasn't shown any form in the hills yet apart from Armstrong maybe.


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## Skip Madness (15 May 2010)

Don't forget we get some _strade bianche_ today - the gravel "white roads". These form a significant part of the last 20km, including most of the final climb.


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## Noodley (15 May 2010)

2km cut from today's stage due to a landslide.

I'm starting to get a bit annoyed my broadband is so crap and cannae watch any of it


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## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2010)

oh dear! 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/bruseghin-abandons-giro/120185


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> oh dear!
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/bruseghin-abandons-giro/120185



No cracks now


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

Skip Madness said:


> Don't forget we get some _strade bianche_ today - the gravel "white roads". These form a significant part of the last 20km, including most of the final climb.



Strade marrone by the look of it I don't fancy that!


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## mr Mag00 (15 May 2010)

whoa just turned it on, what a mud bath!


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## raindog (15 May 2010)

Never seen owt like this!!!
Vino and Evans sluggin' it out in a mud bath. :troll:


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## montage (15 May 2010)

What a great stage!
Good win for Evans


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## dragon72 (15 May 2010)

storming ride from Millar too


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## montage (15 May 2010)

how serious a contender do we think Millar will be once we hit the high mountains?


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## rich p (15 May 2010)

That was brutal but great fun (for us, not the riders!)


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## Dayvo (15 May 2010)

montage said:


> What a great stage!
> Good win for Evans



and for my Giro fanatasy team! :troll:


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## raindog (15 May 2010)

That's got to be one of the most amazing afternoon's racing I've ever seen. The conditions and toughness of a Belgian classic half way through a GT. The TdF will seem tame after this.
Hats off to Evans.


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## Skip Madness (15 May 2010)

You will seldom see a more spectacular day of racing, particularly in a grand tour, than that. It's certainly the best I can remember for several years. When the coverage came on and you could see it raining you knew it would be pretty intense; when Nibali slid off the voltage was turned up by several factors.

Glorious images in the final 30km, a pulsating war on the climbs through the gravel-cum-mud, and an electrifying finish over the cobbles in the rain culminating in arguably the most impressive win of Cadel Evans' career.

Nibali got a kicking, Basso got a thumping and Sastre got completely annihilated.

More of this please, GT organisers. Edit: Especially if it were in the final week!


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## Skip Madness (15 May 2010)

montage said:


> how serious a contender do we think Millar will be once we hit the high mountains?


Not remotely.


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## montage (15 May 2010)

Disappointing from Bradley - 4'30 down! I don't think he was in a bunch either, just him and another sky rider.


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## dan_bo (15 May 2010)

Bollocks missed it.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2010)

me too - I was expecting Cunego to do well and he did even with the rain.


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## lukesdad (15 May 2010)

Mountain top finnish tomorrow, wonder who s got anything left after that!


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## Keith Oates (16 May 2010)

Unfortunately I can't get any coverage of the Giro out here but reading the reports from the media and the comments made on here it really must have been a great race to watch. Cadel Evans is really showing he is worthy of wearing the ringed jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

looking forward to todays stage


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## raindog (16 May 2010)

Yes, uphill finish today, but I doubt it's hard enough to affect general. Should be some good attacks though.
Bring it on


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## mangaman (16 May 2010)

montage said:


> Disappointing from Bradley - 4'30 down! I don't think he was in a bunch either, just him and another sky rider.



I think he's conserving his energy and going to be testing himself in the high mountains/TT and hoping for another stage win.

He's preparaing for the TDF now, not trying to win the Giro so no point taking unnecessary risks yesterday.

Amazing racing. Couldn't believe Vino/Cunego couldn't out-kick Evans at the end and that Basso looked absolutely knackered.

Maybe they have come back clean 

It had that feel to it. I hated the grand tours when the likes of Lance and Basso would steam up Alps without a bead of sweat appearing or looking as if it were even a little tough.

Yesterday it looked like they were really suffering and the strongest man (with his mountain bike skills - most of the last 25kms was essentially a MTB race) won.


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## rich p (16 May 2010)

I hate to say it but I'm starting to really admire Cuddles on the bike. True grit.


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## lukesdad (16 May 2010)

rich p said:


> I hate to say it but I'm starting to really admire Cuddles on the bike. True grit.


Hang on a minute,he hasn t started serious whinging yet ?


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## ChristinaJL (16 May 2010)

It was a great stage. They all looked seriously cream knackered.  Glad I don't have to ride in those conditions though!!


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## Sysagent (16 May 2010)

I thought I had tuned into a old re-run of a Paris-Roubaix yesterday for the highlights on Eurosport...







As everyone said what an amazing last section to the stage was, really need to get back to that rawness in the Grand Tours, makes the spectacle more exciting / interesting to watch.

Mind you I wouldn't fancy doing it eh?

Oh and chapeau to Cuddles you could see how much he dug deep for that finish couldn't you and who would have thought Mr Millar would be sitting 3rd well ahead of Wiggo, I think the mountains will certainly sort out the final GC though as usual.


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## montage (16 May 2010)

Froome and Cummings in the breakaway


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## mangaman (16 May 2010)

The usual crappy Eurosport coverage - ie none until the motorbicycling round and round in a circle finishes - which will overrun as usual and we'll catch the last few minutes if we're lucky 

That's another reason yesterday was great. You could see the whole day, virtually and get a much clearer idea of the stage as a whole. The build up to them going onto the off-road section in the last 25ks was all part of the stage.

Just seeing the end feels like a let down really


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## rich p (16 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> The usual crappy Eurosport coverage - ie none until the motorbicycling round and round in a circle finishes - which will overrun as usual and we'll catch the last few minutes if we're lucky
> 
> That's another reason yesterday was great. You could see the whole day, virtually and get a much clearer idea of the stage as a whole. The build up to them going onto the off-road section in the last 25ks was all part of the stage.
> 
> Just seeing the end feels like a let down really



It's live on HD!


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

i wont pay for HD as well


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## montage (16 May 2010)

Who's going to make a move for this mountain top finish then ey?
Currently a 1 min gap I believe - shouldn't be too hard for the climbers in the pack to bridge. Sastre got a point to prove maybe?


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## mangaman (16 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> i wont pay for HD as well



No HD in mangaman towers either 

Why put in on HD and not one of the other 2 channels?


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## montage (16 May 2010)

montage said:


> Who's going to make a move for this mountain top finish then ey?
> Currently a 1 min gap I believe - shouldn't be too hard for the climbers in the pack to bridge. Sastre got a point to prove maybe?



I correct myself - 3.30 min lead.
Watching it in italian is my excuse


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## marinyork (16 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> No HD in mangaman towers either
> 
> Why put in on HD and not one of the other 2 channels?



Because it's prime time and eurosport are short of channels. Sky have sky sports 1-4 + red buttons, BBC have BBC1,2, in emergencies 3 also HD and the red buttons. ITV have 1-4 + a red button service they set up sometimes on satellite and cable. Eurosport are a bit shorter.

As virgin media still haven't sent me a smart card I'm missing out too.


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## rich p (16 May 2010)

montage said:


> I correct myself - 3.30 min lead.
> Watching it in italian is my excuse



Less than 2 minutes.


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## Keith Oates (16 May 2010)

2.20 at 15 Kms according to Yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dayvo (16 May 2010)

I'll stick my neck out and go for David Moncoutie of Cofidis for the stage victory!


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## montage (16 May 2010)

what happened to cummings and froome?
Didnt see them get dropped


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## Keith Oates (16 May 2010)

Could be Dayvo, he's covered the latest atack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dayvo (16 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> I'll stick my neck out and go for David Moncoutie of Cofidis for the stage victory!



Quite!

Anker Sorensen looks like some old geezer riding home from the pub!  
(His saddle is too low)!

But he's building a tidy lead!


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## rich p (16 May 2010)

He was comical! Terrible celebration at the finish too but good luck to him.


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

hahahaha good ride though


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## mangaman (16 May 2010)

Well as I predicted - I Sky Plussed it and got about 2 minutes after the race had already finished.

I saw Vino in pink.

What happened - anyone give me a brief summary of what happened to Evans, Millar et al. Bloody useless Eorosport.


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

Eurosport was on time


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## mangaman (16 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> Eurosport was on time



I sky plussed it and got about 5 minutes after the race?

I've no idea why. It seems to happen a lot with Eurosport.

Anyhoo - what happened, as I missed it. Did Evans crack. How is Vino in the pink? What happened to Millar?

Cheers


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

Evans rode well i was surprised, finished in the first group with Vino following 3 lone riders who i believe had no impact on GC


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## Dayvo (16 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> Bloody useless Eorosport.



Oh I don't know! Got the last 80 km here!


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

ahh u were watching Eorosport you should see the engineer and log into Eurosport


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## Dayvo (16 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> ahh u were watching Eorosport *you should see the engineer* and log into Eurosport



What's his name: Dick Sean Airey?


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## mr Mag00 (16 May 2010)

gonna get your coat?


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## Dayvo (16 May 2010)

mr Mag00 said:


> gonna get your coat?



I'm looong gone!


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## gavintc (16 May 2010)

I see that David Millar had a bad at the office. I cannot identify what went on. I was watching the Italian language version of the race today, but my Italian is not good enough to pick up the detail. Cycling News has not given an account of the race from a Brit perspective.


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## lukesdad (16 May 2010)

Sastre has been awfull


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## mangaman (17 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Sastre has been awfull



His goals will be the TDF and the Vuelta though, surely?


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## lukesdad (17 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> His goals will be the TDF and the Vuelta though, surely?


Don t think he s riding the TDF, and didn t fancy his chances against Contador in the Vuelta.


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## BigSteev (17 May 2010)

Looking at today's stage I reckon Michael Phelps or Ian Thorpe would stand a chance!


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

Millar said the other day he was a few pounds overweight for the mountains, which is why he did so well on the cold, wet gravel roads.


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## iLB (17 May 2010)

who is in the break today then?


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

Giampaolo Cheula (Footon Servetto), Tom Stamsnijder (Rabobank), Michael Barry (Sky), Mikhail Ignatiev (Katusha) - they might let them get away, especially with this weather, with makes chasing difficult...


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## rich p (17 May 2010)

It's filthy weather.


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## iLB (17 May 2010)

htc do seem to be setting the pace on the front with greipel in mind though, and he would look rather silly if he didn't manage to win a single stage whilst potentially looking for another team to join.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

Ignatiev has gone off the front with a major attack... but I am not sure now with the better conditions, whether the breakaway riders will be able to stay away.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

And Ignatiev's attack has killed the breakaway - stupid and suicidal.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

As Sean Kelly said - 'a crappy sprint' (!), and Matt Goss wins it!


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## dan_bo (17 May 2010)

Drop the boy!


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## maurice (17 May 2010)

Vino was right up there at the end, I was scared he was going to win it there for a moment! He looks to be in worryingly good form.


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## biking_fox (17 May 2010)

Somebody shoot Satre and save himself the effort. How much time did he loose again today?


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

He hasn"t had much luck, but he doesn't really look interested either.


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## raindog (17 May 2010)

What's up with Greipel? Not exactly coming up with the goods is he?


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## HLaB (17 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> As Sean Kelly said - 'a crappy sprint' (!), and Matt Goss wins it!


I was watching in Italian on steephill, that about sums it up.


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## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2010)

I don't know why everyone is so down on Sean Kelly - he speaks a lot of sense, has the experience, and seems to call it right most of the time. I can only think it must be lingering English cultural prejudice against his thick Irish accent... it's the guy he's on Europsport with who's the fool (Harmon?).


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## gavintc (17 May 2010)

Sadly, I had some important meetings to attend to so missed the race. I was a little bit grumpy all afternoon. But, my wife went up to Capua to watch (Capua is the town that Spartacus was trained in his gladiator skills). She reports it was wet and fast. There was also less of a cavalcade preceding the race and no hand-outs from the floats that are common on the TdF. But, she enjoyed it, although she got a little bit wet. Incredibly, we had a lovely warm dry day in Naples and the race was only a few miles away in steady drizzle. 

She got some good pics of the HTC riders leading the main peleton with a group of Liquigas strung out behind. 

Oh well - need to wait till next year.


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## rich p (17 May 2010)

Sounds good and bad Gavin. I'm going to the Dolomites but just after the tour passes through and I'm hoping that the weather will be better by then.


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## lukesdad (17 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I don't know why everyone is so down on Sean Kelly - he speaks a lot of sense, has the experience, and seems to call it right most of the time. I can only think it must be lingering English cultural prejudice against his thick Irish accent... it's the guy he's on Europsport with who's the fool (Harmon?).


+1


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## rich p (17 May 2010)

Who's down on him?


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Who's down on him?



You see people taking the piss on cycling forums (not just this one) all the time...


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## raindog (18 May 2010)

I would think most people would have too much respect to take the piss out of Kelly with him being an ex-pro. Harmon on the other hand gets so much hammer I'm starting to feel sorry for the bloke, allthough I don't have eurosport so can't really comment on them myself. We have Jalabert on French national tv and he's pretty good, and Fignon for the Tour, although he may not make it this year due to his illness.


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## rich p (18 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> You see people taking the piss on cycling forums (not just this one) all the time...



I think most people have come round and respect what he has to say, if not the way he says it. I don't believe it's the accent or racism though, more the dead monotone, hard to hear delivery that people dislike. I've grown fond of him but my main criticism is that he never says anything unless prompted by David Harmon which means that DH has to set him up all the time with slightly clunky, posed questions. I have sympathy for Harmon in that he has to speak off the cuff for 5 hours a day with little assistance from SK and it must be blinking hard to be interesting and different doing that for 3 weeks, often when bugger all is happening in the race for hours on end.
I think SK has also been shown up lately by the brilliant Magnus Backstedt who has done some of the early tours and is articulate, recently involved and offers a real rider's expertise and insight.


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## John the Monkey (18 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I don't know why everyone is so down on Sean Kelly - he speaks a lot of sense, has the experience, and seems to call it right most of the time. I can only think it must be lingering English cultural prejudice against his thick Irish accent... it's the guy he's on Europsport with who's the fool (Harmon?).


They are?

I like Kelly, I got the distinct feeling he was enjoying himself during that horrible stage on the strada bianca.

As for Sastre, I just don't think this new, Mountain Bike Giro D'Italia is his sort of race at all. Maybe when the weather co-operates, and the course director stoips pretending he's Henri Desgranges...


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

I'm glad to see this forum isn't as full of idiots as some - I've seen Kelly described elsewhere as 'dull', lacking in a sense of humour, only ever stating the obvious, and as making people cringe - none of which is remotely true.


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## mangaman (18 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I don't know why everyone is so down on Sean Kelly - he speaks a lot of sense, has the experience, and seems to call it right most of the time. I can only think it must be lingering English cultural prejudice against his thick Irish accent... it's the guy he's on Europsport with who's the fool (Harmon?).



I agree about Sean Kelly but what's wrong with Dave Harmon.

When Duffield was commentating all we had was criticism of him (not recognising riders etc) Harmon is definitely an improvement. I think he's made Kelly more talkative. Duffield never let Sean get a word in edgeways.

It was funny hearing Sean say it was a crappy sprint


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

Yawn, what a boring stage today... we've been spoiled with all the excitement of the last week.


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## Speicher (18 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> I agree about Sean Kelly but what's wrong with Dave Harmon.
> 
> When Duffield was commentating all we had was criticism of him (not recognising riders etc) Harmon is definitely an improvement. I think he's made Kelly more talkative. Duffield never let Sean get a word in edgeways.
> 
> It was funny hearing Sean say it was a crappy sprint



Yes, that was funny. 

I am guessing he meant to say "it was a scrappy sprint". 

Also funny, when they were talking about the Patrons of years ago, at point Sean was agreeing with Mr Harmon, but said "Exactly, not". I knew what he meant in context, I guess you had to be there. 

I have got used to the fact the Sean's sentences never seem to come to an end.


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## rich p (18 May 2010)

Speicher said:


> Yes, that was funny.
> 
> I am guessing he meant to say "it was a scrappy sprint".
> 
> ...



Certaintly they were majorly cooooooked and on the rivet.


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## Speicher (18 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Certaintly they were majorly cooooooked and on the rivet.



Indeed 

And who is that on the wrong side of the central reservation? 
(at approx 46km to go)


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

Speicher said:


> Indeed
> 
> And who is that on the wrong side of the central reservation?
> (at approx 46km to go)



Just some local rider having a laugh...


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## Speicher (18 May 2010)

Yes, once I had posted that, I was guessing it might be!


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

Speicher said:


> Yes, once I had posted that, I was guessing it might be!



According to cyclingnews, he was probably a local semi-pro rider who knew some of the riders in the peloton - seeing as he had no trouble keeping up and chatting at the same time!


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## Speicher (18 May 2010)

That is what might have made me think he went the wrong way. A complete stranger would be ignored I would think.


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## rich p (18 May 2010)

looks like HTC are working hard again though whether it's for Goss or the under-performing Greipel....


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

Farrar and Dean made it look easy. Either Greipel is not 100% or he's just being found out, I am not sure.


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## lukesdad (18 May 2010)

Millar and Bobridge rode well in setting that up also. Garmin look much slicker this year. Should be good in the TDF against HTC. Mind its a shame Saxobank dont have world class sprinter. Can you imagine Cav. behind an O Grady Voigt Cancellara Train?

As for Kelly, well, what can you say ?The mans a legend.


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Millar and Bobridge rode well in setting that up also. Garmin look much slicker this year. Should be good in the TDF against HTC.



They do, but I still think Cav is in a class of his own when he's set up right, and the Cav-Renshaw duo is almost perfect, whoever is before them in the train, so now Renshaw is back and fully fit, I don't think Garmin will be able to break them that often. It has surprised me that Sky haven't yet been able to set up Henderson in the way that they looked like they would be able to in the early season - Sutton seems to be way off the pace right now, although the squad are certainly driving it along at in the last couple of kms.


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## lukesdad (18 May 2010)

Sky are a little like Garmin were last year, Cant get the timing right, and still lack something.


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## raindog (18 May 2010)

That was a fast, scary finish through those corners....


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## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2010)

raindog said:


> That was a fast, scary finish through those corners....



It was - I was hoping my man Arashiro might pull a last minute little escape (he was right behind Tosato as he tried to get away at the death, but he sat up when the sprinters' teams really got going...)


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## montage (18 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It was - I was hoping my man Arashiro might pull a last minute little escape (he was right behind Tosato as he tried to get away at the death, but he sat up when the sprinters' teams really got going...)



He is desperate for a stage win - will be considering him for my tdf team


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## mangaman (18 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It was - I was hoping my man Arashiro might pull a last minute little escape (he was right behind Tosato as he tried to get away at the death, but he sat up when the sprinters' teams really got going...)



Change of subject - but having just watched the stage on Sky+ what do you dislike about Dave Harmon?

I really think he does a good job of waffling for hours and keeping me interested. He seems to be on good terms with the riders and is well informed. He generally gets the calls right when he has to see who's made a sudden attack or crashed. And he clearly respects Sean's opinions and seems genuinely to want to hear them.

I agree completely, I never understood the antipathy towards Sean Kelly, especially on Racing on cyclingplus, but I think he's blossomed since being paired with Harmon.

He seems to have loosened up and his dry sense of humour really comes out.


----------



## dmoan (19 May 2010)

I like David Harmon's commentary and love Sean's insights - I just wish that they would avoid "just explaining the basics for people who might never have watched the sport before". I would prefer it if they would talk about what they see or hear on the day and pack in as much race gossip as possible!

I mean, I watch rugby and the commentators do not insist in explaining the laws of the sport for every game, nor do football commentators explain the meaning of the offside rule...


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## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

Big split early on today. And Vino's not in it


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## biking_fox (19 May 2010)

Sastre and Wiggins are though - good chance for wiggo, but I'd never thought Sastre as a breakaway man. What's more Porte is only 2:26 down on Vino - surely the break won't be allowed to suceed. Cycling news has it at 17min though which is fair amount of chasing even over 200k ?


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## Keith Oates (19 May 2010)

There is still a long way to go though and a few 'lumps' to get over. Having said that it's good to see Wiggins in the lead group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## iLB (19 May 2010)

how big is the break away group?


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

56 according to Cycling News.


----------



## John the Monkey (19 May 2010)

iLB said:


> how big is the break away group?


Depending on whom you read, 56 or 58 riders.


----------



## iLB (19 May 2010)

bloody hell, how did they manage that?!


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

http://live.cyclingnews.com/3.html list of those in the break. 

Bad news is that Adam Blythe appears to have abandoned today.


----------



## John the Monkey (19 May 2010)

iLB said:


> bloody hell, how did they manage that?!


Group of 20(?) went first, others bridged in bits & pieces, aided by poor weather (again, according to what I've read).


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## raindog (19 May 2010)

LOL I predicted on another forum that Brad would be in a break today. Didn't think it would be so big and have 17 minutes advantage though! 
This could be a hell of a stage.


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## biking_fox (19 May 2010)

How much trouble is Evans in - he's down to 5men in his team. Is this is a big deal? he never seems to ride with them?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

The breakaway is shedding riders from teams without their GC contender there - which shows it's getting serious! 16 minutes, and around 48 riders now. This one could easily last if they work together - there are a large contingent of Sky, Cervelo and Caisse d'Epargne - so none of those major teams will help the chase, and enough significant riders from Garmin, Colnago and one or two others that they won't either. Looks like it is 'Kill Astana' day!


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

Fifty guys in a break is too many really though. It'll have to start splitting up if it wants to go the distance.


----------



## iLB (19 May 2010)

why oh why do i have to go and hand in an assignment for 4pm?! what time do we think the stage will finish? (roughly)?


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

I reckon about 3.45


----------



## Sysagent (19 May 2010)

WTF IS EUROSPORT DOING!

Fecking Tennis????

I am beginning to think this is bloody deliberate....


----------



## Sysagent (19 May 2010)

Hurrah!

The coverage has begun only 50mins late...


----------



## iLB (19 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> I reckon about 3.45



guess i'll be missing the end then, ah well...


----------



## Sysagent (19 May 2010)

Anyone think the main break off gang in the Giro have done it deliberate to rub Vino's nose in it?

I am thinking so...

Kind of a show of silent protest to / about him


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

Sysagent said:


> Anyone think the main break off gang in the Giro have done it deliberate to rub Vino's nose in it?
> 
> I am thinking so...
> 
> Kind of a show of silent protest to / about him



Could be! 

There is a serious effort by Vino and co. to pull it back now, so there's a mini-MR group at about 13 minutes back, with the peloton even further back. 

The break is going down to more like 30 now - not the final selection, but getting there. The weather is terrible and I can't see how a chase group can organise itself to catch this.


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

LOL the pink jersey group look a bit pissed off.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

raindog said:


> LOL the pink jersey group look a bit pissed off.



Ha ha - just a shame Cunego is left behind too - I like him (and he's in my fantasy team...)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

I am loving the conversation Kelly and Harmon are having about the effects of the weather on the difficulty of eating energy bars!


----------



## Sysagent (19 May 2010)

Mmmm

*27 riders def. 12m54s*
41 Vinokourov (KAZ, AST)
1 Evans (AUS, BMC) +1:12
131 I. Basso (ITA, LIQ) +1:51
11 Garzelli (ITA, ASA) +2:47
121 Cunego (ITA, LAM) +3:08
31 Scarponi (ITA, AND) +3:09
191 Pozzato (ITA, KAT) +28:12
147 Lloyd (AUS, OLO) +48:09
32 L. Bertagnolli (ITA, AND) +58:30
211 Lund (DEN, SAX) +1:05:48

Looks like the current GC peeps are making a concerted attack to make the time back...

Cant see them succeeding myself.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

It's still over 12.30 with 20km to go. No way. The whole GC is going to be turned upside down... and in my book, David Arroyo Duran becomes the new race favourite.


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

That's right - if they push too hard they'll end up with guys off the back and that will weaken them.

Seriously though, what a cock up for Astana and Liqui! 

oops, I was answering sysagent's post there


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

raindog said:


> Seriously though, what a cock up for Astana and Liqui!



Couldn't have happened to nicer teams though, eh?


----------



## John the Monkey (19 May 2010)

From @cyclesport on twitter;

"the break got away when the bunch split on the first climb, then it started raining heavily on the descent, so everyone went to get their rain gear. By the time they were organised, there was a 10 minute gap. Astana and BMC had esponsibility to chase, but had riders off the back."

Sorry to see Evans caught out, but by god this will make for an interesting race, GC changes!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

Man, the weather is terrible! It's like Britain...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

Still 12.30 with only 10km to go. Vino is toast.


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

Ouch!


----------



## Sysagent (19 May 2010)

Wiggins finished fourth, now that is a sign of intent to go for a GC place methinks...

Come On Wiggo!


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

Finally a decent result for Sastre too.


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

Good grief that uphill finish and terrible conditions - what a stage. These guys earn every penny.


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## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

That was great for Sastre and Wiggins (both in my fantasy team!) - they both really needed that - I guess it was recover the losses or else. Millar and co. lost a bit at the end. Still waiting for Vino's group...


----------



## User169 (19 May 2010)

Pink jersey group 12:45 down.


----------



## BigSteev (19 May 2010)

Porte in Pink!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

Couldn't have predicted that at the start! He won't last the moutains, but it's great for him!


----------



## aJohnson (19 May 2010)

Port in Pink and Sastre in the top 8. That was a good stage.


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

Poor buggers, they really looked demoralised crossing the line. Soaked to the skin to top it all.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

This is shaping up to be the most dramatic Giro, if not the best GT, for ages...


----------



## lukesdad (19 May 2010)

Hey ! Hey ! Carlos is back in it. Significantly he and Wiggins were strong at the end. Good signs for the third week. Still some big stages before then. Looked like vino evans basso etc. worked a damn site harder than th efront guys, good innit


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This is shaping up to be the most dramatic Giro, if not the best GT, for ages...


When was the last time we saw a big race turned upside down like this?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

I can't think offhand...


----------



## trustysteed (19 May 2010)

oscar perreiro in the tdf?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2010)

Usually, it's one or two riders who climb the classification in the mountains, or a very strong TTT upsetting things - but almost the whole Top 10 being swept aside on a non-mountain, non-TT stage? Almost never...


----------



## raindog (19 May 2010)

I thought of that too - not quite as spectacular as this though. Someone on another forum said that this is the way races were won in the old days before team radios and the like.

Mind you, the race ain't over yet by a long way. Can't wait for the rest - bring it on.


----------



## trustysteed (19 May 2010)

shame work gets in the way of watching it during the day!


----------



## lukesdad (19 May 2010)

Saxobank s second string aren t doing bad are they. 2 clasics and....well? Bet the sponsors will be lining up.


----------



## rich p (19 May 2010)

Wow, just watched it on V+. fantastic and almost beyond belief that they would get away.
What with the bianche strade, an awesome Giro and everything to play for.


----------



## Skip Madness (19 May 2010)

This truly is the Giro that keeps on giving.

The good stuff wasn't meant to be until the final week!


----------



## Skip Madness (19 May 2010)

A few thoughts:


 David Arroyo and Xavier Tondo could be very hard to shift - they have a much more active stake in really fighting for the GC than either has ever had before. Yes, Arroyo isn't in the same league as Evans, Sastre or Vinokourov, but the nearest of those is Sastre - five and a half minutes behind him.


Sastre has suffered in this Giro, no doubt. But he has a couple of days to keep on licking his wounds before Monte Grappa, and that won't be as hard-fought as Zoncolan on Sunday. Even if he's not yet quite recovered, he's got 2'49" on Vinokourov and 4'01" on Evans - quite a cushion.


Does Wiggins go for this? I'd say it probably won't work out if he does, he'll lose a lot of time to Evans in the final week, but it's got to be tempting hasn't it? He may not get a chance like this again. I suppose it depends on how he feels his condition is.


Does anyone think Valerio Agnoli might actually be able to hang in there for quite a while? My guess is he'll not worry about the GC and carry on working for Basso and Nibali, but he's a better climber than his mountain results would have us think, and he's Liquigas' best-placed rider by 6'47". EDIT: Forgot about Robert Kiserlovski, in third almost three minutes ahead of Agnoli and _also_ riding impressively. What a headache!


----------



## lukesdad (19 May 2010)

Agnoli lost time today dont think hell be there long once they get to the serious stuff,and on todays evidence I think Tondo s target is probably the mountains classification, but, he s gonna be a hell of a decoy for Sastre.

Has everybody got their eye on the ball though. Porte is sitting there and if he s half the rider people are saying he s going to be, he s not going to give that jersey up without a fight. If the favourites start worrying about each other we are going to have a surprise winner and he can hold his own in the TT s inc. the mountain one. This could be the undoing of some mind.


----------



## mangaman (19 May 2010)

Skip Madness said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> 
> David Arroyo and Xavier Tondo could be very hard to shift - they have a much more active stake in really fighting for the GC than either has ever had before. Yes, Arroyo isn't in the same league as Evans, Sastre or Vinokourov, but the nearest of those is Sastre - five and a half minutes behind him.
> ...



a few thougts


----------



## lukesdad (19 May 2010)

I understood Sastre wasn t doing the TDF.


----------



## mangaman (20 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> I understood Sastre wasn t doing the TDF.



Really, I didn't know that - I think that makes him a strong favourite for the Giro. We knww, from the TDF on Alp D'Huez, he can ride the best climbers off his wheel towards the end of 3 week tours. 

I'm glad to see Basso seems to be struggling - I found his cruising up hills, much faster than the rest, without even breaking sweat deeply worrying. I've only seen Armstrong/Valverde/Heras and him really do that n GTs - and I think I know why.

He seems to be struggling - but the Dolomites will decide. It would be good to see a push from Bradley, but on a "level playing field" if you get my drift, Sastre is in a great position as a true and proven climber, to win.


----------



## raindog (20 May 2010)

Skip Madness said:


> Does Wiggins go for this? I'd say it probably won't work out if he does, he'll lose a lot of time to Evans in the final week, but it's got to be tempting hasn't it? He may not get a chance like this again. I suppose it depends on how he feels his condition is.


Nice post skip.
As for Wiggins, I should think he'll take it day by day and see how it goes, but as you say, there's a hell of alot of time between those little fishes at the front and the favourites a bit further back. We have the prospect of some fantastic racing ahead of us and there could yet be a surprise winner.


----------



## Legs (20 May 2010)

Not to mention the thing that we all love about cycling - those Cedric Vasseur moments when a rider who is clearly a 'little fish' really pulls a quality ride out of the bag in order to stay in the lead. We don't _expect_ Porte to last the duration, but who knows what inspiration he can draw from the maglia rose?


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## lukesdad (20 May 2010)

Come on then guys, put yourself in the shoes of the DS of a particular team. Youve had the night to sleep on it, what would you be saying to the troops? Except BMC of course, cos they ve only got a general, his troops have gone AWOL


----------



## johnr (20 May 2010)

Hope the dope testers have cleaned their bottles properly for today's stage. I can feel a Landis coming on.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2010)

Wiggins is human and he'll be thinking about his chances here as much as anyone else, despite the pre-season plans he may have had. I think Sastre has a realistic chance of pulling this out of the bag with a couple of good attacks in the mountains. Wiggins's best hope is to get on the podium by sticking like glue to whoever is looking the best prospect, and at this point this means Sastre, Arroyo and Tondo (a minor Spanish rider suddenly riding like a super-domestique... hmm..._ interesting_). Wiggins is a good climber, but he's not someone who can launch a devastating attack in the mountains... if he's still in contact by the time of the final TT, then he has a serious chance of winning, but I am guessing that a Top 5 is the best he could get from here.


----------



## biking_fox (20 May 2010)

Another scrappy finish - traditional sprinter runouts really aren't doing very well this year.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2010)

Makes it much more unpredictable - good win for Pozzato on the line after a wickedly fast run-in. The only teams with any kind of a 'train' are HTC, Sky and Garmin and they weren't anywhere near the front on this one. It was good to see Vinokourov and Cunego right up here, and showing they aren't going to take yesterday lying down - there's a lot more to come in this race!


----------



## lukesdad (20 May 2010)

Evans throwing swipes if not punches at the front of the group,mmm....Millar having a go too. Has Cuddles lost the plot again?


----------



## raindog (20 May 2010)

Pressure's getting to everybody..........


----------



## lukesdad (20 May 2010)

Trouble is these Italians don t play fair do they? Why cant it be mapped out for everyone like the TDF its just not fair!!!!


----------



## rich p (20 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Evans throwing swipes if not punches at the front of the group,mmm....Millar having a go too. Has Cuddles lost the plot again?



That was a classic Cuddles spat. I wonder if they'll carry it on afterwards!


----------



## lukesdad (20 May 2010)

rich p said:


> That was a classic Cuddles spat. I wonder if they'll carry it on afterwards!


Does make you wonder though, If he carries on like that no wonder he s got no bloody teamates around him when he needs them!


----------



## rich p (21 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> Does make you wonder though, If he carries on like that no wonder he s got no bloody teamates around him when he needs them!



It's pretty clear that his team is conspicuous by its absence. I don't recall seeing him with them even during calm days and they're straight out the back as soon as the gradient or speed goes up.


----------



## montage (21 May 2010)

rich p said:


> It's pretty clear that his team is conspicuous by its absence. I don't recall seeing him with them even during calm days and they're straight out the back as soon as the gradient or speed goes up.



I don't know how they can be so awful. I mean, they are possibly supporting the best rider in the GC and just cannot seem to be bothered!


----------



## John the Monkey (21 May 2010)

rich p said:


> That was a classic Cuddles spat. I wonder if they'll carry it on afterwards!


Looked to me like the Katousha riders deliberately boxed him in, not surprised he was p'ed off.


----------



## biking_fox (21 May 2010)

Miller's out, and Farrer's contemplating it - now that he's jersey-less. According to cycling news anyway. No info given on why Miller's retired.


----------



## raindog (21 May 2010)

A couple of interesting lumps near the end of today's stage in Pantani country. Could well see some more fireworks.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (21 May 2010)

Another good stage, with a nice local win. Henderson was just too knackered at the end, but that was a good performance for a sprinter being in the breakaway all day. Karpets made up a few minutes too with his solo attack near the end. The mountains are just going to be great!


----------



## trustysteed (21 May 2010)

can someone give me a link to a site with the individual profile maps of the stages?


----------



## iLB (21 May 2010)

clicky


----------



## montage (21 May 2010)

Millar gone?!
News on this?


----------



## lukesdad (21 May 2010)

montage said:


> I don't know how they can be so awful. I mean, they are possibly supporting the best rider in the GC and just cannot seem to be bothered!


Lotto weren t much better!


----------



## Chuffy (22 May 2010)

montage said:


> Millar gone?!
> News on this?


More info on Cycling News. Illness apparently. I'd expect Farrar to quite pretty soon given that Millar and Bobridge are out.


----------



## rich p (22 May 2010)

Back into the bigger mountains today. Monte Grappa has sections of 14% with an average of 8 so it may be interesting. Not a mountain top finish though.
I'm having a mini-break there in a couple of weeks so I'll be interested to see how hard it is.


----------



## raindog (22 May 2010)

Nobody mentioned yesterday's win, but with all the scandal and dirt that's being turned over in the cycling world at the moment, didn't it do you good to see local lad Belletti take it? He was so overcome with emotion he could hardly speak afterwards. And by Christ did he jump - what a sprint!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2010)

raindog said:


> Nobody mentioned yesterday's win, but with all the scandal and dirt that's being turned over in the cycling world at the moment, didn't it do you good to see local lad Belletti take it? He was so overcome with emotion he could hardly speak afterwards. And by Christ did he jump - what a sprint!



Well, I did mention it... and I thought it was great.


----------



## raindog (22 May 2010)

oops, sorry FM - missed it somehow.
Big climb today.


----------



## montage (22 May 2010)

Wiggins attack! Wiggins attack!
woot


----------



## iLB (22 May 2010)

go wiggoooo


----------



## montage (22 May 2010)

nooooooo 
Wiggo has sat up - brings tears to my eyes


----------



## raindog (22 May 2010)

I reckon he just used up a load of energy for nothing there


----------



## rich p (22 May 2010)

raindog said:


> I reckon he just used up a load of energy for nothing there



A bit odd considering he got dropped but he's up to 7th for now!

The Zoncolan will be interesting tomorrow. It doesn't look like Arroyo will stay with the best climbers. Nibali looked pretty impressive today.


----------



## raindog (22 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Nibali looked pretty impressive today.


agreed - his Nibs done good. Great descent, eh?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2010)

Vino is still lurking ominously... with all the climbs to go, anyone right down to about 15th overall is still in with a chance. The only one who isn't is Porte, who did really well being shepherded up the climb today, but he won't manage in the stages with multiple big climbs that are coming up. I think Wiggins was just testing his legs. He didn't lose anything today and I think he looks pretty smooth. The question is whether he really lets rip and therefore damages his TdF chances...


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## trustysteed (22 May 2010)

iLB said:


> clicky



cheers for that!


----------



## lukesdad (22 May 2010)

Did you see Sastre sit up I thought he was going to stop and get off his bike for a minute! Either he s got something up his sleeve or he s toast.


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2010)

Some steep stuff today. There's an interesting article on gearing choice for today with talk of 34/52 front rings.


----------



## iLB (23 May 2010)

not much sign of team sky in the peloton today ??


----------



## raindog (23 May 2010)

Thanks for that link Crackle


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## rich p (23 May 2010)

iLB said:


> not much sign of team sky in the peloton today ??



Wiggo and Cummings are near the front


----------



## rich p (23 May 2010)

Having said that I can't spot Wiggins now on the precursor slpope


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## Will1985 (23 May 2010)

Crackle said:


> Some steep stuff today. There's an interesting article on gearing choice for today with talk of 34/52 front rings.


Good to see - compacts have much more potential re chainrings. I wonder what a 53t 110bcd is like - flexier than standard bcd?


----------



## raindog (23 May 2010)

I wouldn't expect Wiggins to stay near the front today


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## Will1985 (23 May 2010)

He came over the top about a minute after Liquigas


----------



## rich p (23 May 2010)

I'd like to see Wiggo keeping up on the hills but by recent tradition you wouldn't expect to bust a gut on the Giro and the TdF would you?


----------



## iLB (23 May 2010)

just the one sky rider towards the back of the maglia rosa group, can't tell who though


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## rich p (23 May 2010)

iLB said:


> just the one sky rider towards the back of the maglia rosa group, can't tell who though



Cioni looked to be struggling earlier so it's probably Wiggo


----------



## gavintc (23 May 2010)

I am watching this on RAI and I do not think it is Wiggins in the M Rosa group. I cannot be certain as the camera does not spend too much time on the tail enders of that group.

I apologise - think it is him.


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## Will1985 (23 May 2010)

They've just zoomed in - rider 171 at the back of the maglia rosa group.


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## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2010)

The Zoncolan is all that matters today... then we'll see who wants to win this race! I have a Dan Martin for the stage feeling...


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## iLB (23 May 2010)

dan martin of team ...?


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## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2010)

Garmin...

I'd like Serpa to have a go because he can do this kind of climb, but I expect he's riding for Scaponi


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2010)

I'm following it on Velonews and it's just flashed up "How long before Evans punches one of these crazy Italian fans?"


----------



## Dayvo (23 May 2010)

4 km to go and Evans and Basso fighting it out!

Both are in my Fantasy team, but I've played the joker on Basso for today's stage!


----------



## montage (23 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> 4 km to go and Evans and Basso fighting it out!
> 
> Both are in my Fantasy team, but I've played the joker on Basso for today's stage!



Very good call!
I got some nice points today - Basso 1, Evans 2 Sastre 5 (joker)


----------



## HLaB (23 May 2010)

How steep was that finnish!


----------



## rich p (23 May 2010)

HLaB said:


> How steep was that finnish!



Talking of Finnish, Wegelius did a good ride!


----------



## Telemark (23 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> 4 km to go and Evans and Basso fighting it out!
> 
> Both are in my Fantasy team, but I've played the joker on Basso for today's stage!




Oi Dayvo! Get thee back to the bottom of the table 
Or maybe I should tell my RandomRiders to get a move on instead ...

T


----------



## HLaB (23 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Talking of Finnish, Wegelius did a good ride!


LOL Oops


----------



## rich p (23 May 2010)

That was a brutal ride and again much kudos for Evans for sticking at it and having a go.
Basso made it look relatively easy and must be favourite for the overall if there are enough tough stages left. An uphill ITT on Tuesday I think.


----------



## Will1985 (23 May 2010)

Evans looked ungainly on that bike, fighting with it the whole way up.


----------



## gavintc (23 May 2010)

Will1985 said:


> Evans looked ungainly on that bike, fighting with it the whole way up.



Yes, he was hurting. I noted that Basso's killer push came just after he signalled Evans to come through for a turn. He was able to see Evans was not comfortable and was rolling around. I must admit that Basso looked like a machine as he rode those final 3 km. I just hope that his blood levels/readings are correct.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 May 2010)

Yeah, he did look very smooth compared to everyone else.


----------



## raindog (23 May 2010)

gavintc said:


> Yes, he was hurting. I noted that Basso's killer push came just after he signalled Evans to come through for a turn. He was able to see Evans was not comfortable and was rolling around. I must admit that Basso looked like a machine as he rode those final 3 km. I just hope that his blood levels/readings are correct.


Seemed like two different styles, Evans pushing against a big gear and Basso turning something more manageable with great Italian style, but whether or not he had more than porridge for breakfast i have no idea.


----------



## BigSteev (23 May 2010)

Managed to catch the last 8k in a sashimi bar in Hamburg airport before flying home. The contrast between Evans and Basso made it obvious who was going to take it but I thought Evans put in a gutsy ride today and I was suitably impressed.


----------



## montage (23 May 2010)

Evans has been the man of the match so far


----------



## Speicher (23 May 2010)

If Basso had just porridge for breakfast  I will eat my hat!


----------



## lukesdad (23 May 2010)

Awesome!


----------



## Keith Oates (24 May 2010)

You could see Evans was suffering but he stuck at it and came home a good second. Again he's showing that he's worthy to wear the Champions stripes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mangaman (24 May 2010)

Seemed reminiscant of the effortless Basso who treated large mountains by staying in a highish gear and strolling up, leaving everyone else floundering (of pre-ban years) - except Evans, who seemed to be relly hurting.

Still - who knows


----------



## rustychisel (24 May 2010)

haven't seen all the footage yet, but the one-on-one is what people come to see, isn't it?
I'm surprised in a way at Basso's form, he's been biding his time well then for this race, but he looked to be struggling a bit early on in the Giro, perhaps he's ridden in to form. Good show anyway.

As for Cadel, he always looks like he's going to snap the bars off the bike when he wrestles it uphill. The big motor thing seems to work for him and his physique, which is significantly different from just about every other grimpeur of note. You might reasonably say Cadel is not really a climber, per se, but he gets the job done.

This race might come down to who has a really bad day in the saddle: Sastre's had a few, what of Nibaldi, Evans, Basso etc etc


----------



## trustysteed (24 May 2010)

tomorrow's time-trial up the hill should be fun for the riders!


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2010)

I was just looking at the stage details here. Sections of it are at 21/24%


----------



## trustysteed (24 May 2010)

how does everybody feel about Basso being back in cycling (i know he's been back for a while) and winning a stage? i'm caught in two minds. used to think he was a great rider, and loved his rides in the tdf with lance but he went and ruined it for me with his doping. but i'm slowly warming to him again.


----------



## redddraggon (24 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> his doping



What doping? He was only thinking about doping


----------



## rich p (24 May 2010)

redddraggon said:


> What doping? He was only thinking about doping





I have nothing to base this on but I'm guessing that when Armstrong took 3 minutes out of him on the Alpe d'Huez TT he thought I want some of what he's on!
To be humiliated when he was probably the second best rider at the time may have persuaded him to fall from grace.
I find it difficult to believe in most of the ex-dopers now though. Vino, Scarponi, Basso especially. Forever tainted unless they do a Landis.


----------



## Dayvo (24 May 2010)

rich p said:


> I find it difficult to believe in most of the ex-dopers now though. Vino, Scarponi, Basso especially. Forever tainted unless they do a Landis.



No mention of David Millar, Rich!

Home countries bias, perhaps?


----------



## rich p (24 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> No mention of David Millar, Rich!
> 
> Home countries bias, perhaps?



Mainly because he admitted it and has expressed remorse which the others haven't.


----------



## aJohnson (24 May 2010)

Nevermind


----------



## Dayvo (24 May 2010)

rich p said:


> *Mainly* because he admitted it and has expressed remorse which the others haven't.



Mainly!?

But I'm still not convinced!

Remorse, because he got caught . . . !?


----------



## gavintc (24 May 2010)

Millar has allegedly made the transition and is reportedly clean. He certainly speaks out against doping and sides himself with the clean element (perhaps we are all just gullible). Basso and Vino are just too raw and recent for me. Watching Basso's face on the climb on Sun left me a little bit depressed. He was not hurting, he was not sweating, just riding away from the field, just a little bit too good. Oh well, it was very good TV.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> Mainly!?
> 
> But I'm still not convinced!
> 
> Remorse, because he got caught . . . !?



Not convinced that he's clean or that he is a repentant sinner?


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

won't it be lovely to have rasmussen and ricco back in the fold as well. ah, how we've missed them.


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

evans and basso should do well today, both good time triallers and climbers. will cancellara enjoy this or is it a bit steep for him?


----------



## Tompy (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> evans and basso should do well today, both good time triallers and climbers. will cancellara enjoy this or is it a bit steep for him?



Cancellara's not riding.

The way Pinotti's been riding in this Giro, I'd expect him to do well.

Wiggins' time will be interesting as he must have conserved some energy when he lost 25 minutes on the Zoncolan.


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

ah, cancellara won't do very well then! i thought i'd seen him riding but that was in the tour of cali now i think about it!

wiggins has nothing to lose now so would be good for him to give it a real go, it's _only_ 12.9kms after all...


----------



## biking_fox (25 May 2010)

Average speed of the current lead is just over 10mph !

They're just not trying are they


----------



## mangaman (25 May 2010)

Dayvo said:


> No mention of David Millar, Rich!
> 
> Home countries bias, perhaps?



Also Millar's not riding at the level he was pre-ban. IMHO

Basso / Scarponi etc are back to the level when they doping (especially Basso yesterday). That doesn't seem quite right


----------



## Crackle (25 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> Also Millar's not riding at the level he was pre-ban. IMHO
> 
> Basso / Scarponi etc are back to the level when they doping (especially Basso yesterday). That doesn't seem quite right



Was it Boardman who said, if it look unbelievable it probably is? I think Basso's ride the other day was a bit too good. I think he's on a porridge replacement programme myself.


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> Also Millar's not riding at the level he was pre-ban.



that's good though, surely?


----------



## mangaman (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> that's good though, surely?



Sorry - yes that what I meant.

Millar is riding as if he is clean (ie worse than he was pre-ban)

Basso is identical to how he was last time he won the Giro.

Didn't make myself clear.


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

do you think basso would come back from a 2 year ban and race under the influence again?


----------



## John the Monkey (25 May 2010)

Crackle said:


> I think Basso's ride the other day was a bit too good. I think he's on a porridge replacement programme myself.


Although he's not shown much up to now - it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that he's saved himself for the Zonc, is it?


----------



## Crackle (25 May 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> Although he's not shown much up to now - it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that he's saved himself for the Zonc, is it?




I suppose not and I guess this and the next few stages may give some perspective on that but as we've said many times, that's the trouble with drugs in sport, you become cycnical about good rides.


----------



## raindog (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> wiggins has nothing to lose now so would be good for him to give it a real go, it's _only_ 12.9kms after all...


I really can't believe Wiggins has a chance of winning this


----------



## rich p (25 May 2010)

I can't believe that Wiggins was that bad on the Zoncolan and had decided it wasn't worth busting a gut. If that's true then he may feel like giving it a go today being fresher or treating it as a training ride.

That seems to cover all the bases


----------



## John the Monkey (25 May 2010)

Crackle said:


> I suppose not and I guess this and the next few stages may give some perspective on that but as we've said many times, that's the trouble with drugs in sport, you become cycnical about good rides.


I know, I know. I'm trying not to be, tbh. If he'd turned up in every tough stage I'd be more sceptical, but I think (and may be proved wrong) that that's not the case - he looked a bit rubbish compared to Nibbler in the first weeks (again, imo).


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

anyone watching this live on somehting other that eurosport player? not having much luck via justin.tv (not that i ever seem to see anything on that site).


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

Wiggins is an very, very good hillclimber... but he may not be at his best, judging on the other day.


----------



## philipbh (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> anyone watching this live on somehting other that eurosport player? not having much luck via justin.tv (not that i ever seem to see anything on that site).



http://videochat.gazzetta.it/index_giro.shtml


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

The easiest way to see which streams are working, for any stage of any race, is to go through http://www.cyclingfans.com


----------



## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

philipbh said:


> http://videochat.gazzetta.it/index_giro.shtml




nice one, ta!


----------



## philipbh (25 May 2010)

A comprehensive list, courtesy of steephill here 

http://www.steephill.tv/giro-d-italia/#live

Can anyone point to a starting order, please?


----------



## iLB (25 May 2010)

reverse gc isn;t it?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

This is a brutal climb once it gets on to the dirt! And thankfully no sign of rain (which would have meant the last part being cut).


----------



## BigSteev (25 May 2010)

http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=26652


----------



## philipbh (25 May 2010)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...iro-ditalia-plan-de-corones-time-trial_118486

Found this on Velonews - including timings (and is reverse GC as per iLB)


----------



## BigSteev (25 May 2010)

It's my idea of hell! All the uphill and no down


----------



## philipbh (25 May 2010)

No shortage of cycling web sites!


----------



## iLB (25 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> It's my idea of hell! All the uphill and no down



and they catch the ski lift down!!


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

BigSteev said:


> It's my idea of hell! All the uphill and no down



Come on, it's perfect!


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## rich p (25 May 2010)

Ouch, that smarts!


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## BigSteev (25 May 2010)

Have to say I like the fact that it's a climb means they're using 'proper' bikes and not those Frankenmachines they normally TT on. 

Not a bad ride from Dan Martin btw.


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## theloafer (25 May 2010)

http://www.justin.tv/yo2024#r=GzmbmnI~ was in english mr harmon now in italian


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## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

Uran Uran's leading with A View To A Kill!


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## rich p (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> Uran Uran's leading with A View To A Kill!



He'll have to give a uran sample!


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## iLB (25 May 2010)

wiggo two minutes down at the time check and in 57th place


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

Yeah, he's not on top form yet. Either he's just treating this as preparation for the TdF or he's just knackered.


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## Dayvo (25 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> Uran Uran's leading with A View To A Kill!





rich p said:


> He'll have to give a uran sample!



He'll piss it!


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## trustysteed (25 May 2010)

err, what was that astana twat doing pushing a bike up the hill in evan's way? idiot.


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

Did Wiggins even finish (yet)?


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## mr Mag00 (25 May 2010)

has it finished yet?


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

Not quite... Porte, then Arroyo just coming in now.


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## mr Mag00 (25 May 2010)

bugger*goes to switch on tv* work getting in the way of viewing atm!


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## raindog (25 May 2010)

Great ride from Evans, but what about Porte? 3rd on general!


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## mr Mag00 (25 May 2010)

oh well triathlon next worth waiting for


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## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2010)

Porte is riding out of his skin. Wiggins on the other hand, 67th, 4:51 back, is not riding like a GT contender right now.


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## yello (25 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Wiggins on the other hand, 67th, 4:51 back, is not riding like a GT contender right now.



Indeed not. Not even a GT contender 'in training'. I'll be interested to read his thoughts on how things are going.


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## rich p (25 May 2010)

As I said earlier, he couldn't have been really trying on the Zoncolan but what will he get out of going through the motions? I find his training strategy this year odd. He said he wanted to do much as he did last year but he did a good, hard Giro then. 
I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in France.


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## montage (25 May 2010)

Using our man Lance as an example, he did shocking in the Giro last year I believe - did fairly well in the tour


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## yello (25 May 2010)

Equally, riders currently trying to win the Giro also fancy their chances at the TdF! I guess each rider has their own plans and strategies, is riding to their own aims and goals, but I'd personally hate to see them all treat the Giro as a training ride!


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## iLB (25 May 2010)

ultimately sky pledged to win a tdf within 5 years, and as much as I'm sure we would all love to see brad give contador et al a good kicking, clearly there is a more long term plan in the pipeline (hopefully).


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## trustysteed (26 May 2010)

A big lump in the middle which should break things up nicely and a decent lump to finish. contenders for the GC likely to have a pop on the last climb?


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## rich p (26 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> A big lump in the middle which should break things up nicely and a decent lump to finish. contenders for the GC likely to have a pop on the last climb?



According to the blurb it's not a tough enough lump or finish to break it up for the GC contenders. Maybe they'll get their breath back on this one and a breakaway will win.


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## trustysteed (26 May 2010)

that's a shame!


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## rich p (26 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> that's a shame!



The experts could be wrong - they have been a lot on this Giro.


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## NickM (26 May 2010)

Experts - pah! I can't imagine what makes them any more "expert" than a fan with a smidgeon of insight...


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## Speicher (26 May 2010)

Would some very kind person with excellent eyesight please tell me which team (or it could be just one person) has a wolf or a fox on the front of their cycle helmet.  TIA

By the time I have noticed the wolf, I do not have time to see which team there are in. Virtual doughnut to the person(s) who can tell me.


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## iLB (26 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Porte is riding out of his skin. Wiggins on the other hand, 67th, 4:51 back, is not riding like a GT contender right now.



check out the photos on this blog here, from wiggins' face it doesn't look like he is trying all that hard compared to the others there.


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## John the Monkey (26 May 2010)

Scarponi, as I recall Speicher.

from a distance, it looks a bit as though he's headbutted a cow pat.


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## iLB (26 May 2010)

Speicher said:


> Would some very kind person with excellent eyesight please tell me which team (or it could be just one person) has a wolf or a fox on the front of their cycle helmet.  TIA
> 
> By the time I have noticed the wolf, I do not have time to see which team there are in. Virtual doughnut to the person(s) who can tell me.



Aqua and Sapone


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## Speicher (26 May 2010)

Doughnuts on their way to John and I  (Ilb that is), thanks especially for the pic. Perhaps it is a panther rather than a wolf.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2010)

Woo-hoo! My boy Arashiro Yukiya in the break again...


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## raindog (26 May 2010)

Fine win for Monier jumping at 3ks to go. Cummings and Moreno chased too late to catch the first three.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2010)

Yeah, that was another great stage, that final hill did do exactly what it should have done. And still the Gavia to come! As Scarponi said when the route was announced:

"The Gavia, as well? This is going to be hell! I just can't wait until I can see light at the end of that tunnel on top of the Gavia, literally and metaphorically, because the Tonale's not too hard... But, mamma mia, what a Giro!"

I've changed my mind of Wiggins again - looking at the pictures of him (in the link above) and seeing him today, he seems to have been coasting a little bit. I am guessing that perhaps he is trying to preserve his energy for the final TT.


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## raindog (26 May 2010)

Did you notice Scarponi sprinting at the end like a maniac just for the hell of it? Excellent.


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## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2010)

raindog said:


> Did you notice Scarponi sprinting at the end like a maniac just for the hell of it? Excellent.



Yeah, I really don't know what he was up to, but it looked great!


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## yello (26 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I've changed my mind of Wiggins again - looking at the pictures of him (in the link above) and seeing him today, he seems to have been coasting a little bit.



Did you read the comment under the photo?



> Is Team Sky going to have buyers remorse come July? We’ve all seen one-hit-wonders in the Grand Tours before. It’ll be interesting to see how he goes in the TdF. Wiggins has gone from 7th to 24th (lost 24mins) in the past 2 stages.



Fingers crossed he is coasting and everything is under control. I sincerely hope so.


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## Stephen-D (26 May 2010)

yello said:


> Did you read the comment under the photo?
> 
> 
> 
> Fingers crossed he is coasting and everything is under control. I sincerely hope so.




Not sure is he is coasting but im sure that he was not going full pelt but then again im still learning about all this Professional Cycling Malarky, what i do know is there is no way in hell Sky are having any remorse come July. They have made it clear they wish to win the TDF with a British rider within the next 5 years. Dream come true within the first year but im really not sure they will. Besides, Sky put in 1.3 billion pounds into Football, putting the 35 mill they did for the Cycling team is a little smudge on the bank books.

Seems a little bit mean to put that at the end of the photo, im with you Yello my fingers are crossed


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## Stephen-D (26 May 2010)

On a more back to topic note, i have really loved watching the Giro D'Italia, i only got into cycling last summer and this is the first Grand Tour i have had the priveledge to watch from the very start and although im stil learning team names and cyclists who i like or dont like etc i have loved it very much, some days i was on the edge of my seat litteraly :0 been fantastic to see.


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## mangaman (26 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I've changed my mind of Wiggins again - looking at the pictures of him (in the link above) and seeing him today, he seems to have been coasting a little bit. I am guessing that perhaps he is trying to preserve his energy for the final TT.



I agree Wiggins had no ambitions for the Giro other than winning the prologue.

He is going fot the TDF and using the Giro as preparation, I believe. 

I liked his little attack a few days ago with Cummings (I think it was him - who was in the break) - it showed the team practising tacicts. Althiugh it was soon caught it was impressive the way Brad rode away from the Liquigas people without a care in the world.

I think the whole Giro has been a TDF practice run for Sky and a pretty successful one.


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## rich p (27 May 2010)

I'm hoping too that the Wiggo and Cav strategies are all part of the master plan. I'll let you all into the answer in late July!


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## mangaman (27 May 2010)

rich p said:


> I'm hoping too that the Wiggo and Cav strategies are all part of the master plan. I'll let you all into the answer in late July!



Don't worry Rich - it'll be cool.

As for Cav, I can't see any other sprinters' in the same league - witness the "crappy" sprints (to use Sean Kelly's words) in the Giro.

Wiggins is more suspect, but seems to be preparing well and has at least a good chance of a podium I'd have thought.


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## raindog (27 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> I liked his little attack a few days ago with Cummings (I think it was him - who was in the break) - it showed the team practising tacicts. Althiugh it was soon caught it was impressive the way Brad rode away from the Liquigas people without a care in the world.


I found that embarrassing and I still can't understand why he did it.


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## rich p (27 May 2010)

raindog said:


> I found that embarrassing and I still can't understand why he did it.



+1


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## rich p (27 May 2010)

Three minor observations from watching the race on Eurosport

My admiration for Cuddles has gone from pretty low to pretty high.

Steve Cummings has shown himself to be a gutsy rider who's not afraid to have a go.

I'm sick to death of Tyler Farrar's (sprinter of Team Garmin Transitions) advert!


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## trustysteed (27 May 2010)

rich p said:


> I'm sick to death of Tyler Farrar's (sprinter of Team Garmin Transitions) advert!



i've never seen him wearing them in a race!


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## NickM (27 May 2010)

Stephen-D said:


> ...i only got into cycling last summer and this is the first Grand Tour i have had the priveledge to watch from the very start and although im stil learning team names and cyclists who i like or dont like etc i have loved it very much, some days i was on the edge of my seat litteraly :0 been fantastic to see.


That's nice - sounds like me, 25 years ago 

Just be aware that disillusionment will not be long postponed


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## rich p (27 May 2010)

trustysteed said:


> i've never seen him wearing them in a race!



He obviously only wears them when he pops down to the shops on his hybrid, while that women leers at him and the blokes are painting the road.


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## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Three minor observations from watching the race on Eurosport
> 
> My admiration for Cuddles has gone from pretty low to pretty high.
> 
> ...



Agree with all three, though I've thought of Cummings that way for a few years now. I think he only needs some little more improvement to become rather more than a good domestique, perhaps someone who might win some of the proper 'hard man' races like Paris-Roubaix or LBL... 

And whilst I have always thought Cadel had talent, he has shown a hell of lot more desire in this race than I have ever seen. It is still a shame he has no team worth speaking of - BMC was a really odd choice for a guy who left his previous squad because of lack of support!


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## theloafer (27 May 2010)

wtg greipel... my joker worked out well


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## raindog (27 May 2010)

yeah - about time Greipel came up with the goods - mind you there's not a deal of opposition left now. I was gutted for the local Colnago guy who got swallowed up in the last kilometer.


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## BigSteev (27 May 2010)

How nice of Sky to do such a nice lead out for him.


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## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2010)

I guess showing up is half of what it takes to win... he has to take advantage if Farrar and Petacchi and co. can't hack the mountains.


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## lukesdad (27 May 2010)

mangaman said:


> I agree Wiggins had no ambitions for the Giro other than winning the prologue.
> 
> He is going fot the TDF and using the Giro as preparation, I believe.
> 
> ...


Afraid I cant agree with your last 2 points Mangaman. I think he fancied that stage. His attack didn t last long enough to be any sort of practice, he just didn t have the legs as the last few stages have proved.

As for sky having a successful Giro, Ithink their tactics and strategies have been pretty woefull to be honest. They re goona have to do better than this in the TDF!


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## Archie (28 May 2010)

lukesdad said:


> As for sky having a successful Giro, *Ithink their tactics and strategies have been pretty woefull to be honest. *They re goona have to do better than this in the TDF!


I'd agree, and I think Dave Brailsford would take the flak for that, however it's unrealistic to expect a rookie DS on a rookie team to come up with the winning formula straight away. Lots to learn from the botched attempt to protect the Maglia Rose in Holland, and today's sprint train. 

For me this was always the weakness in the Team Sky concept, and it will take time to overcome.


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## trustysteed (28 May 2010)

Basso to try and put more time into Evans today?


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## raindog (28 May 2010)

Have we got a mountain top finish today? Must check the profile.


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## raindog (28 May 2010)

Not sure this will be difficult enough today for Basso to drop Evans. Tomorrow's stage looks harder.
EDIT
hmmm....just looked at the individual climb profiles and it's much harder than I realised, especially the Mortirolo - should make for some good viewing!

Here's today's


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## rich p (28 May 2010)

I seem to remember Armstrong saying a few years ago that the Mortirolo was the hardest climb that he'd done but I can't work out when he would have ridden it!
Basso will be more concerned about catching Arroyo than Evans today but I hope Cuddles has the energy to attack him.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

raindog said:


> it's much harder than I realised, especially the Mortirolo



yes, that's just a little bit hard! An uphill finish always sorts things out too...


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## theloafer (28 May 2010)

tour on here in english.. http://www.justin.tv/yo2024 ..


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

Garzelli going away now... looks great.

I love Scarponi's comments on the stages. This is what he says about today:

"The Mortirolo is a horror, absolutely interminable. If anyone's still alive, the riders who get over the Mortirolo first should then pull away on the final climb up to Aprica, as they always do."


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## theloafer (28 May 2010)

bloody hell he,s going like a bat out of hell..


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## rich p (28 May 2010)

He must have had an extra weetabix today.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

He's almost caught the breakaway...


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

and here we go up the Mortirolo - one of the hardest climbs in road cycling... this is where it will really kick off (again!). What a Giro this has been!


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## biking_fox (28 May 2010)

Basso's trying to get away now - can he break Cuddles? Maybe.


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## rich p (28 May 2010)

biking_fox said:


> Basso's trying to get away now - can he break Cuddles? Maybe.



Yes


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## theloafer (28 May 2010)

phew evans was lucky there...


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## iLB (28 May 2010)

'brain out gonzo rider' you what?


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## rich p (28 May 2010)

Arroyo's doing well on the descent.
A decent descent!


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

Decent? It's fantastic! Reminiscent of Savoldelli...


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

Arroyo's knackered on the final climb though... Liquigas 1 and 2?


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## trustysteed (28 May 2010)

man those three are flying. fair play, great ride by all of them. basso deserves the lead.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

And a nice (gifted) win for my fantasy team rider, Scarponi.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

Is Arroyo going to lose this...? Might not... ooh, just.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

And everyone else - nowhere...


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## HLaB (28 May 2010)

What was Vino playing at? Was that just sour grapes, if I cant win you wont either David!


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## biking_fox (28 May 2010)

SO who's got anything left in the tank for tomorrow? Arrayo? doubt it. Basso - maybe. Evans? I don't think he can timetrial his way into the lead.

Great ride by Arrayo. really close. If those 5 had worked togethre he might still be in pink - but I guess there wasn't reason to help him. That's why you need teammates like Nibbles.


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## raindog (28 May 2010)

The TT on sunday is only 15 ks - that's not enough for Evans to make a dent is it? And there's still tomorrow in the mountains yet.

Good grief, the way those three were flying up front! I know I shouldn't, but I can't help wondering.......


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

raindog said:


> Good grief, the way those three were flying up front! I know I shouldn't, but I can't help wondering.......



As I said tight at the start, Nibali was one of those initially named as a possible in the recent investigations, and Basso, well we know Basso is a proven cheat whose team ignored the request of the authorities not to employ him. Scarponi, well I don't know that there's any allegations against him, and he does look so utterly wasted away that something has to be keeping him going!

If you compare previous winners like Cunego who has been vociferous in speaking out on drugs recently, and who was dropped like a stone along with Evans and Sastre, I think there's more than enough wonder to go around.

Still doesn't stop me enjoying the race though.

As for Evans - no chance. Arroyo - he won't have the heart now - he knows he's done enough to please his team and hold his head up high. It's Basso now. Though I would love it if Cunego or Sastre could have the ride of their lives tomorrow and prove me wrong.


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## raindog (28 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Still doesn't stop me enjoying the race though.


No, no - agree entirely.

I'm glad it's all over on sunday though - don't think I could stand another week of this!


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## Telemark (28 May 2010)

that's me at the bottom of the CC Fantasy league again. 
I refused to "employ"  the likes of Basso...
(ok some other poor choices, but that's a different kettle of fish, I am learning )

T


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## yello (28 May 2010)

raindog said:


> Good grief, the way those three were flying up front! I know I shouldn't, but I can't help wondering.......



You wouldn't be saying that elsewhere! There'd be sulks! 

I guess you've got to wonder when you see the efforts some riders have to put in compared to the apparent ease of others.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed that stage whatever the contents of the bidons. More than any TdF stage I've seen in the last couple of years that's for sure. The Giro might well become my preferred GT!


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## rich p (28 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> As I said tight at the start, Nibali was one of those initially named as a possible in the recent investigations, and Basso, well we know Basso is a proven cheat whose team ignored the request of the authorities not to employ him. Scarponi, well I don't know that there's any allegations against him, and he does look so utterly wasted away that something has to be keeping him going!
> 
> If you compare previous winners like Cunego who has been vociferous in speaking out on drugs recently, and who was dropped like a stone along with Evans and Sastre, I think there's more than enough wonder to go around.
> 
> ...




Well Scarponi has history!

Who knows!


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

And we still have the Gavia tomorrow... I can't see how the TdF is going to top this.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2010)

rich p said:


> Well Scarponi has history!



Oh yeah, he's a Puerto boy, isn't he? The subhead on this Cyclingnews story says it all: 

"Operacion Puerto riders decide Giro stage"


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## raindog (28 May 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I can't see how the TdF is going to top this.


I don't think it will, in fact I can't ever remember seeing 3 weeks racing like this in my life before.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (28 May 2010)

Can anyone explain to me what on earth is going on with the advertised eurosport scheduling on Virgin cable?
When I switched on for yesterday's highlights I got football, when I switched on for today's I get a tennis programme. All the while the footer tells me I'm watching grand tour cycling. WTF???


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## HLaB (28 May 2010)

Stig-OT-Dump said:


> Can anyone explain to me what on earth is going on with the advertised eurosport scheduling on Virgin cable?
> When I switched on for yesterday's highlights I got football, when I switched on for today's I get a tennis programme. All the while the footer tells me I'm watching grand tour cycling. WTF???


One word 'Eurosports', seriously they are bad for that.


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## jpembroke (28 May 2010)

This Giro has something of the freak show about it and I don't believe anything I'm watching. Still, quite entertaining though.


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## montage (29 May 2010)

screw that for a descent! haha
Would NOT like to slip


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## Flying_Monkey (29 May 2010)

Some fantastic work by Tschop...


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## montage (29 May 2010)

sorry, why isnt cadel wearing his world champ jersey?


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## iLB (29 May 2010)

points leader init  go evans


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## Flying_Monkey (29 May 2010)

That was a great final effort - I do wonder whether if he had gone a bit earlier whether he could have really broken them (or was that all he had left today?). I am guessing, despite what he said yesterday, that he does think he can get a podium place because he's no mean TT rider.


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## raindog (29 May 2010)

Superb win for Tschopp and a brave attack from Cadel easily contained by Basso, although I reckon he owes a big thank you to Scarponi.

Superb shots of them on the Gavia riding between walls of snow. What a bloody mad three weeks this has been.


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## iLB (30 May 2010)

pro peloton doping reaches an all time level of blasé 






what's that up your shorts leg vino?


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## montage (30 May 2010)

That's a pretty incriminating shot ilb! nice find!
I don't think it is a label sticking out


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## rich p (30 May 2010)

montage said:


> That's a pretty incriminating shot ilb! nice find!
> I don't think it is a label sticking out



Of course it's a label, Monty!

I've zoomed in and it says, _"60% Spandex, 40%Testosterone. Maximum spin, fast cycle" _


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## Speicher (30 May 2010)

Excellent Rich P. 

But you forgot "Do not tumble dry"


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## Dayvo (30 May 2010)

Speicher said:


> Excellent Rich P.
> 
> But you forgot "Do not tumble dry"



Vino should be hung out to dry!


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## Speicher (30 May 2010)

Yes, I found it very funny (in a not nice way ) when Cuddles sprinted past Vino near the end of yesterday's stage, almost as if Vino was stationary! :troll:


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## HLaB (30 May 2010)

Has anybody got coverage of today's stage yet?


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## Dayvo (30 May 2010)

Due to start here on Norwegie Eurosport soon! Tennis permitting!


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## HLaB (30 May 2010)

Only seconds ago the Italian (Gazzetta) coverage is up

I've got eurosport now ;-)


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## Will1985 (30 May 2010)

Blatant drafting by Forster on Bookwalter! Reminiscent of Bottrill on Wiggins last year at the BTTC.


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## theloafer (30 May 2010)

http://videochat.gazzetta.it/index_giro.shtml


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## HLaB (30 May 2010)

I knew Wiggins ran an oval chain ring but I never realised how oval it was!


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## montage (30 May 2010)

Hmmm dissapointing from wiggo?


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## Keith Oates (30 May 2010)

I think Wiggins has a lot to do if he wants to put up a good show at the tour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Team Fiwip (30 May 2010)

Last two previous posters beware!! I’ve found from experience that criticism of Wiggins will not be tolerated by factions of the forum


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## HLaB (30 May 2010)

montage said:


> Hmmm dissapointing from wiggo?



I was expecting more too. I'm hoping he knew the giro is gone and realised early this stage was lost too and was saving himself for the future.


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## Team Fiwip (30 May 2010)

Apparently Brailsford carried out an in depth performance analysis of the route and requested that the organises levelled the course and replaced the tarmac with the finest afzelia, alas they chose to ignore his demand


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## HLaB (30 May 2010)

I like Scarponi's helmet; I've no idea if he's a good TT or not.


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## ChristinaJL (30 May 2010)

I'm hoping that Wiggins is saving himself for the tour, but I'm not that sure!!  Seem to remember seeing though that Sean Yates said the climbs in the Giro weren't suited to Wiggins as they're steeper and the tour longer less steep gradients. also think Wiggins said he'd see how he went regarding trying for the giro or not - plan was for the tour but if he went well, he'd not squander a good placing in the giro. no chance of that this year though. 

Armstrong was pretty weak in last year's giro, wasn't he, so we can only hope for Wiggins to have a big improvement in July. 

I've really enjoyed this giro, hard to see how a one horse Contador Tour can beat this.


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## Team Fiwip (30 May 2010)

Lance Armstrong finshed 12th in last yrs Giro, not great, but hardly weak


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## rich p (30 May 2010)

Ther's an interview with Wiggins on cyclingnews, here where he explains his strategy and tactics in relation to the TdF. He may be right or be covering up but we'll only be able to tell in 6 weeks time.
His new shape, diet and training may mean that he's less good at ITTs than he used to be.
FWIW, Fiwip, I can't recall anyone being criticised on here for voicing an alternative point of view. People may be disagree with someone but everyone is allowed their own opinions.


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## Team Fiwip (30 May 2010)

I was criticised by a few when I first posted views on Sky, but I do remember rich p coming to my defence, thanx for that, even if u did post that I may have come across as 'a bit opinionated and gobby for a new boy'  

_'If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter._' (George Washington)


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## Flying_Monkey (31 May 2010)

We all know Wiggins is concentrating on the TdF but I can't see him getting higher than 3rd anyway.

There were some riders today (well in the whole Giro) who I just didn't quite believe - Pinotti in the mountains for one, and Nibali in general - putting in such a fast TT after really killing himself in the mountains... no, I don't think that was 100% legit. There are others too.


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## rich p (31 May 2010)

Pinotti was truly a revelation A good prospect for the future and nice that a young and up and coming star can change his style from TT-er to GC-er.
Waddya mean he's 34


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