# Hungover driver kills cyclist, walks free.



## glenn forger (11 Oct 2014)

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/hungove..._prison_court_told_1_3802571#article-comments

Driving while hungover just "careless", legal system decides.


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## numbnuts (11 Oct 2014)

> More than 20 people gave references for the teacher, including the headmaster at his school, and the court heard* he was “one of life’s givers”.*


and now one of life's takers


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## Pale Rider (11 Oct 2014)

Lots of death by careless cases - not just cyclists - are now dealt with by magistrates and often do not result in a custodial sentence.

Death by driving offences are fairly new.

Originally, it was just death by dangerous.

Problem there was juries thought "I'm not convicting someone and probably sending them to prison just for having an accident".

Thus the lesser charge of death by careless was introduced for cases which a lot of road users would describe as accidents.

This guy veered across the white line - we've all done it.

The consequences could not be more serious, but it still seems harsh to send a bloke to prison for what, to use the court definition, was "a momentary lapse of attention".


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## glenn forger (11 Oct 2014)

The evidence is that it wasn't a momentary lapse at all, Peter Thornett felt so bad he had already texted people to change his plans that day. Not well enough for hockey, well enough to drive, he thought, fatally. The risk was transferred, he was too ill to play a game but decided driving a ton of metal was ok. Getting in a car while complaining about the effects of alcohol is nowhere near a momentary lapse.


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## mickle (11 Oct 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> This guy veered across the white line - we've all done it.



No, we absolutely have not all done it.


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## glenn forger (11 Oct 2014)

Maybe he didn't want to play hockey because he was so hungover he was worried he'd get hurt?


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## blazed (11 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


> Maybe he didn't want to play hockey because he was so hungover he was worried he'd get hurt?


Or maybe because most people do not like strenuous exercise with a hangover. It was an accident, the wife of the killed man herself said she felt the sentence was fair. He is not going to walk free like you say in the title his life will never be the same. What is sending him to prison with career criminals going to accomplish?


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## glenn forger (11 Oct 2014)

Two things:

A proper punishment for someone who killed and

A deterrent to other people

This sentence provides neither. 

And this was no "accident", to describe this man's actions as accidental is insulting.


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## Pale Rider (11 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


> And this was no "accident", to describe this man's actions as accidental is insulting.



So if he didn't do it 'by accident', how did he do it - deliberately?

The system has decided there are no accidents on the road, only collisions, so there must always be someone to blame.

Trouble is juries, judges and magistrates think like the rest of us, there are accidents, and while one party might be to blame, their degree of culpability varies.

An awful lot is being made of this bloke being hung over, but he passed the breathalyser so he was fit to drive from a blood/alcohol standpoint.


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## glenn forger (11 Oct 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> So if he didn't do it 'by accident', how did he do it - deliberately?




He didn't climb into his car and start the engine by accident. He wasn't fit tto drive, he drove and killed somebody and got fined less than the cost of the bike.


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## Cycleops (11 Oct 2014)

The victims wife said she thought the sentence was fair, she could have appealed it if she considered it otherwise.


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## Pale Rider (11 Oct 2014)

glenn forger said:


> He wasn't fit tto drive



Very hard to determine, even with a prior medical examination.

Any judgment on here as to his fitness to drive is nothing more than guesswork.

I had severe 'flu a week ago, I would liken the symptoms to being hungover.

Was I fit to drive? I didn't feel like driving, which is not the same thing.


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## Sara_H (11 Oct 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> So if he didn't do it 'by accident', how did he do it - deliberately?
> 
> The system has decided there are no accidents on the road, only collisions, so there must always be someone to blame.
> 
> ...


If we accept that fatal accidents just happen, without any blame on the part of the person operating the deadly vehicle, and agree that this is just an acceptable part of using the road, then isn't it time to say that cars and bikes don't belong on the the same road as each other?
I didn't sign up to this agreement that I accept that it's ok for someone to just kill me.


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## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2014)

To the driver's credit he has given up his license and stopped driving

If he stays off the road then this is (in part) something positive


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## steveindenmark (12 Oct 2014)

Its a difficult one.

Not drunk enough to fáil a breath test but obviously too impaired to drive. Im sure most of us have been in the position where we are too tired to be driving and in hindsight, shouldnt have. But it is difficult to make laws for every single eventuality.

Certainly, an avoidable accident where all parties are going to suffer for years to come.

A timely reminder, coming up to Christmas.


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## ComedyPilot (12 Oct 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Its a difficult one.
> 
> Not drunk enough to fáil a breath test but obviously too impaired to drive.* Im sure most of us have been in the position where we are too tired to be driving and in hindsight, shouldnt have.* But it is difficult to make laws for every single eventuality.
> 
> ...



Watch the car park at ANY of the THOUSANDS of UK police stations in the early morning after a long night shift, and I bet most if not all of the officers driving home do so with an element of tiredness/impairment.

I know - I used to.....


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## Drago (12 Oct 2014)

blazed said:


> . What is sending him to prison with career criminals going to accomplish?


For starters the public will be safe from him while he is behind bars.


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## steveindenmark (12 Oct 2014)

ComedyPilot said:


> Watch the car park at ANY of the THOUSANDS of UK police stations in the early morning after a long night shift, and I bet most if not all of the officers driving home do so with an element of tiredness/impairment.
> 
> I know - I used to.....



Yes me too. But there is no need to single out the police. Any night shiftworker will know that feeling.

There is a big difference between being tired and hungover though.


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## ComedyPilot (12 Oct 2014)

steveindenmark said:


> Yes me too. But there is no need to single out the police. Any night shiftworker will know that feeling.
> 
> There is a big difference between being tired and hungover though.


My point wasn't to single out the police per se, but I dislike the double standards that frown on impaired driving whilst doing zilch to help rank and file bobbies from committing the self same mistakes.


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## briantrumpet (12 Oct 2014)

Perhaps we need to shift the culture of what is an acceptable state in which to drive a car. Since driving a car (unlike riding a bike) requires little physical exertion, there are few states (apart from drunkenness) that most people won't contemplate driving a potentially lethal lump of metal. We might not feel like riding the bike, but we'll jump in the car....

At one time it was generally socially acceptable to drive whilst partially drunk: these days it is not. If we, as drivers, were more prepared to say "I'm not fit to drive" (and courts were prepared to penalise poor decisions to drive which lead to a 'momentary lapse of concentration' in the same way they deal with drink driving, maybe we can shift what's socially acceptable in those contexts too.


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## Cycleops (13 Oct 2014)

User said:


> No she couldn't ...


Anybody can appeal a sentence handed down by a court in the UK, and not just those associated with the case.


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## Pale Rider (13 Oct 2014)

User said:


> No she couldn't ...



While that is strictly true, anyone can write to the attorney general to ask him to review a sentence.

Such a request carries more weight if the CPS does it, but I've known MPs take that route.

Something rings a bell about a sentence being increased after Cameron interfered.


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## Crankarm (19 Oct 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> *So if he didn't do it 'by accident', how did he do it - deliberately?*
> 
> The system has decided there are no accidents on the road, only collisions, so there must always be someone to blame.
> 
> ...



Errr … he was suffering from the affects of alcohol. Drinking and driving do not go together. If he was such a good guy as all his character witnesses suggested then he SHOULD have realised this and not driven his car. He obviously has a dark side and has duped everyone. His punishment should be far more severe.


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