# 447 Mile Weekend Ride



## Ben Reeve (2 Jan 2017)

Hi,

Got a mega ride planned for the weekend of 26th May - Lands End to Lowestoft From 8pm Friday night to the Monday morning.

Have just planned out the training regime and was hoping for some advice. This is just the long rides, will be aiming to ride 3 times a week and throw in interval/hill sessions too.

Do you think this build up of long rides works? Is there enough rest weeks? Thinking I might need a back to back big weekend too IE Sat and Sun 100kms.

Let me know your builds.

Ben

January

Sun 8th – 40km Sun 15th – 60km Sun 22nd – 70km Sun 29th – Rest week as working both weekend days. Will try and get a shorter ride in during the week.

February

Sun 5th – 80km 
Sun 12th – 100km 
Sun 19th – 100km 
Sun 26th – Rest

March

Sun 5th – 120km 
Sat 11th – 120km 
Sun 19th – 100 miles 
Sun 26th Rest

April

Sun 2nd – 120km 
Sat 8th – 150km 
Sun 16th – Rest 
Sun 22nd – 200km (Tour De Bedfordshire) 
Sat/Sun 30th – 130 miles (Overnight test run from Welwyn to Lowestoft)

May

Sun 7th – 100km 
Sun 14th – 150 miles 
Sun 21st – Taper/Easy Going 
Fri 26th – L2L


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## S-Express (2 Jan 2017)

Ben Reeve said:


> Thinking I might need a back to back big weekend too IE Sat and Sun 100kms.



60 miles on consecutive days is not going to prepare you for doing 200 miles on consecutive days. Forget all this 40/80km stuff - start riding 70/80/90 miles now, whenever you get the chance, and build from there.


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## I like Skol (2 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> 60 miles on consecutive days is not going to prepare you for doing 200 miles on consecutive days. Forget all this 40/80km stuff - start riding 70/80/90 miles now, whenever you get the chance, and build from there.


Yes, and no.
I don't want to pick a fight with s-express (we have recent history ) but I am not sure this is something you can really train for in the way you might think?
My riding is predominantly commuting, perhaps 2 or 3 days a week, 10 miles each way. I also do maybe only 4 or 5 bigger rides a year of 50 - 100 miles but, this year(2016) I did one ride of 180 miles in one day. No training, no preparation, no build up, just my usual commutes and then , boom!
To be honest, it wasn't a particularly hard day. OK, the novelty was wearing off after 150 miles but I did get on my bike the next day to ride to and from the train station and then rode to work that same night to do a night shift. Training is not a lot to do with stamina IMO. Regular riding of any sort is more important but this has to be long term. When I first started my cycle commute I had to build it up. 2 days a week wasn't too bad but it took a long time to get past 3 a week to be able to do all 4, every week(silly 4 on/4 off shift pattern). This took around 6-9 months and then I had developed a great base fitness level that allowed me to tackle 60-100 mile rides with no problem.
You don't have 6-9 months so you had better start riding to work too. Every ride counts!


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## windyrider (3 Jan 2017)

Fantastic Challenge and thanks for sharing your outline for training. I used a book called Distance Cycling by John Hughes, when I first started going for extended rides, got a lot from it especially on how to build gradually and allow time for recovery. Just how do you fuel such a ride and other practicalities are also worth some consideration. 

My way is take each month and make the third week the "Big" week in training with week four for recovery with an emphasis on stretching and some cross training in the early months, as the event gets near week four stays recovery but mostly light sessions on the bike with focus on leg speed, rhythm and mental visualisation of smashing the event and feeling awesome


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jan 2017)

A lot of this is going to be in your head.

I don't have any sensible suggestion cos I've never done a ride like yours.

But if it was me I'd be concentrating on getting my head around riding in the "survival zone" very wearily turning the pedals, and sorting out mental coping strategies. Also being familiar with riding consecutive days.

And also lots of time in the saddle, eg commuting. You don't want a sore bum to be the worst of your problems.

Personally I'd ramp up the distances to 200k plus more quickly. But what I'd do isn't really relevant as a) I'm an idiot and b) I'm not you.

Good luck. Keep us posted. You doing it solo?


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## uphillstruggler (3 Jan 2017)

Hello Ben

what is your route? the reason I ask is that the first hundred could be the hardest due to the nature of the hills in Cornwall although the rest may be lumpy till you hit this side of the chilterns.

I would say that time in the saddle is the most important thing here - the more you get used to cycling tired, the easier/more enjoyable this will be.

also, have you done multiple sleep deprived rides? mental fatigue may be harder than the actual physical endevour

its a challenge.

best of luck.


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## martint235 (3 Jan 2017)

S-Express said:


> 60 miles on consecutive days is not going to prepare you for doing 200 miles on consecutive days. Forget all this 40/80km stuff - start riding 70/80/90 miles now, whenever you get the chance, and build from there.


I agree with this. You really need to have done back to back 100 milers at least (I'd suggest 150 milers are better). The jump from 100 to 200 miles is quite a big one but the key thing is you're doing this on consecutive days and that hurts.


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## Ian H (3 Jan 2017)

Ideally, get some big miles in early, then concentrate on building speed.


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## Ben Reeve (3 Jan 2017)

windyrider said:


> I used a book called Distance Cycling by John Hughes, when I first started going for extended rides, got a lot from it especially on how to build gradually and allow time for recovery. Just how do you fuel such a ride and other practicalities are also worth some consideration.


I have bought this today. Hopefully delivered by the end of the week. Great recommendation


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## Ben Reeve (3 Jan 2017)

Full details of my ride are here http://cyclingtipshq.com/l2l-pt1-training-plans

Route starts in Cornwall so I think you're right @uphillstruggler I'm going to have to build in lots of hill training too.

@martint235 have had the same feedback about getting used to back to back rides from someone else. Think I'm going to build in back to back 100km in Feb and then back to back 100-150 miles in March/April. Should really helps me


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## Ben Reeve (3 Jan 2017)

Ian H said:


> Ideally, get some big miles in early, then concentrate on building speed.



This is an interesting theory. Had always worried about peaking too early, but think about it I imagine you're right. Get used to the big miles then you just get quicker.


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## Ian H (3 Jan 2017)

It does a couple of things: builds stamina – stamina persists longer than speed, and gives confidence in riding distance – important if you haven't ridden that far before.


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## vickster (3 Jan 2017)

Maybe look for a few audaxes


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## jay clock (3 Jan 2017)

I have done a few Ironmans (slowly) and agree the challenge is mental as much as physical

A few ideas;

1 Work out nutrition
2 Practise night/sleep deprived rides 
3 Get comfy on the bike


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## mattobrien (3 Jan 2017)

I did the double Dun run last year, Dunwich to London and back to Dunwich, a total of 224 miles.

This was the furthest I had ridden in a single ride and the return leg was at night. Only two of us did the Dunwich to London leg and it was a hot day (27 degrees) with a head wind all the way. A head wind for 112 miles is brutal and with only two you can't easily chat while hiding behind the other one to shelter from the wind. We knew it was going to be a long ride so took it slowly to London (around 17 avg.). If you had asked me at 80 miles if I could do another 140, I'd have said no and stopped them, but we were unsupported and plugged on.

After a short refuelling break in London and with dipping temperatures we made our way back to Dunwich. The ride back was a doddle, cooler, a tailwind and a group to ride with. However, with 50-60 miles to go I started to suffer in three areas; my wrists, my neck and worst of all my behind. My neck and wrists were aching. My backside was sore and it wasn't nice to put much in the way of weight on my saddle. I did much of the last 50 miles standing. My legs were strong throughout and had another 100 miles in them at the end, it's just the other parts of me that didn't.

If I were to do it again my main learning would be as follows;
More of a group to ride to London with, more people to chat with and share the work.
Eat more proper food and sooner, we didn't stop for lunch until mid afternoon and were on food catch up after then.
Go a bit faster on the way down, we went well below our natural pace so that our legs would be good for the way back. By going slower I ended up putting mor weight through the saddle and suffered alter as a result.

Would I do it again, well I've done it once and my memory isn't that bad so I still remember the bad bits. I'll just be doing one way this year.

Not sure how you train you wrists and neck for 13 hours of pedalling other than doing it. I reckon that some very long rides are in order. If I had to ride 200 miles a day for two days, I'd want to have at least one 200 mile ride under my belt, so I knew the distance was doable, just for a psychological perspective.


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## Ben Reeve (4 Jan 2017)

mattobrien said:


> I did the double Dun run last year, Dunwich to London and back to Dunwich, a total of 224 miles.
> 
> This was the furthest I had ridden in a single ride and the return leg was at night. Only two of us did the Dunwich to London leg and it was a hot day (27 degrees) with a head wind all the way. A head wind for 112 miles is brutal and with only two you can't easily chat while hiding behind the other one to shelter from the wind. We knew it was going to be a long ride so took it slowly to London (around 17 avg.). If you had asked me at 80 miles if I could do another 140, I'd have said no and stopped them, but we were unsupported and plugged on.
> 
> ...



Thanks Matt. I did a similar 200 miler to Paris last year so know exactly that feeling of being incredibly tired. Doubling that distance now is really going to be a challenge!


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## dim (4 Jan 2017)

720km and you have 8,418m of climbing (as many downhills as uphills).... you have given yourself 4 days (96 hours) to complete it in (the Friday to the Monday)

so, assuming that you ride for 14 hours a day, you will be cycling a total for 56 hours over the 4 days. That works out to an average speed of 12.8 km/hr (eezi peezy)

if you average 15km/hr you will have more time to rest, as you will complete the course in the time if you cycle for 48 hours of cycling (also eezi peezy)

if you average 20km/hr you will complete the 720 km in 36 hours of cycling. (thats what I would be aiming for or slightly faster as you are 9 guys riding in Peleton ... assuming that you are not riding solo, and that the link that you provided stating that it's 9 guys riding together is correct)

so, if you work on an average speed of 20km/hr, you will need to cycle for 9 hours a day, with a distance of 180km per day.... that gives you 15 hours a day rest/recovery time

with the training that you are planning, it seems do-able but also depends on the wind, how you hydrate yourself, and how you eat

and it depends on the other 8 guys cycling with you ... If one of them bonks, slows down, etc, it will slow the whole group down. 

But even solo, this course is do-able and will be a great ride


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## Ben Reeve (4 Jan 2017)

dim said:


> 720km and you have 8,418m of climbing (as many downhills as uphills).... you have given yourself 4 days (96 hours) to complete it in (the Friday to the Monday)
> 
> so, assuming that you ride for 14 hours a day, you will be cycling a total for 56 hours over the 4 days. That works out to an average speed of 12.8 km/hr (eezi peezy)
> 
> ...



Great analysis! Hadn't really thought about it like that! Makes it seem all the more doable then. Not sure if the rest will be a blessing or a curse? After the 220 mile Paris ride I did I was so stiff the next day


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## dim (4 Jan 2017)

B
[QUOTE="Ben Reeve said:


> Great analysis! Hadn't really thought about it like that! Makes it seem all the more doable then. Not sure if the rest will be a blessing or a curse? After the 220 mile Paris ride I did I was so stiff the next day



the distance should be fine .... it's the hills and the wind which will tire you


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## ColinJ (4 Jan 2017)

dim said:


> 720km and you have 8,418m of climbing (as many downhills as uphills).... you have given yourself 4 days (96 hours) to complete it in (the Friday to the Monday)


Actually, he has given himself ~3.5 days (84 hours) - Friday _evening_ to the Monday _morning_!


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## dim (4 Jan 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Actually, he has given himself ~3.5 days (84 hours) - Friday _evening_ to the Monday _morning_!



works out more or less the same

on the last day, after the last leg, he will rest/sleep at his home instead of in a B&B or hotel or tent


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## ColinJ (4 Jan 2017)

dim said:


> works out more or less the same
> 
> on the last day, after the last leg, he will rest/sleep at his home instead of in a B&B or hotel or tent


How is that not about 12 hours less riding?


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## dim (4 Jan 2017)

ColinJ said:


> How is that not about 12 hours less riding?



point taken and I should have put pen to paper before commenting about the difference between 3 and a half days versus 4 days, plus the start and finishing times.

so looking at it again ....

He starts on Friday evening and has to be home by Monday at 11am .... he has 720km to cycle, which has 8,418m of climbing plus similar in downhill

so.... assuming that he starts at 6pm on Friday, and cycles 100km at an average speed of 20km/hr, he will cycle until 11pm). I would not want to ride the steep downhills at night, so do a short ride on the 1st night and have a good sleep.... however, if he goes at a good pace, wind is favourable etc, go further .... every extra km means one less at the end

day 2, he would need to cycle 250km .... Assuming that he starts at 6am, he will cycle until 20h30 with an average speed of 20km/hr (that includes the time for rests/stops) ... thats 12.5 hrs

day 3 .... the same .... 250km ... start at 6am and finish at 20h30 (12.5 hrs)

day 4 (the monday) .... he needs to finish by 11am and he still has 120km to cycle ....start at 5am and finish at 11am

so.... based on the above, it all depends on how well the OP prepares himself .... 20km/hr is not fast if you are fairly fit, but there is over 2000 meters of climbing every day, so you will need to be able to handle that ....

Wind will also be a factor .... check the wind forecasts, and if the wind is pushing you, go faster and further and take full advantage even if you need to cycle several hours longer.... don't fight any headwind or hill .... learn to spin ... I personally would prefer to ride this course in daylight and not night, as there are many steep downhills, but if winds are strong and pushing, I would risk going well into the night with decent lights

10 hrs plus per day on a saddle, you need to make sure that your arse can handle that, and that you have a comfortable saddle

and as I said previously, nutrition and hydration will be a major factor


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## dim (4 Jan 2017)

and as far as nutrition is concerned, I find that on long rides, I crave for different foods such as Kentucky fried chicken, or a cornish pasty and a mars bar, or cod and chips with loads of vinegar and mushy peas etc etc

so eat what your body craves for when it needs it

some guys also carry baby food (those in the bottles)...., I've never tried these but apparently they are very good (better than gels etc)

I will be trying a recipe for electrolytes soon .... juice of 1 orange, juice of 1 lemon, a cup of coconut water, 2 tablespoons of organic maple syrup, and a good pinch of Himalayan pink salt .... from what I've read, this is the 'bee's knees' as far as electrolyte replacement is concerned


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## Ben Reeve (5 Jan 2017)

Our plan looks like this:


Planned Date and Start Time....
To give us the best chance of completing this event, we will need to drive to Lands End early in the morning on the Friday; this will give us plenty of travel and downtime prior to our ride. This will be a long journey on the Friday of a bank holiday weekend, so make sure your comfortable.

We will start riding from Lands End at 20:00hrs on Friday 26th May 2017.

Routes....

The routes we have created we will keep us on the quieter country roads to reduce the risk to our safety.

As the UK is mostly open all hours, we will try and locate possible feed stops on route, but make sure you have sufficient food for the trip in case we are unable to stop or the shops are closed.

As the plan is to ride the first 206 miles then stop for an overnight rest, there are two routes:


Lands End to Warminster


Warminster to Lowestoft

Route Stats....
The following stats are estimated of our journey.

Distance....

The total distance of the route – 447.5miles

Elevation....

The total elevation of the route – 27621ft

Time....

The total expected duration (at 12mph average) – 37hrs 15mins The total expected duration (at 14mph average) – 31hrs 55mins The total expected duration (at 17mph average) – 26hrs 17mins








Lands End to Warminster....
The route will take us from out of Lands End, through Sennen, Mayon and up the A30 until we turn right to Penzance. From there we will follow the coast to Marazien, then head northeast out through Relubbus. We pass through Truro and St Austell, continuing northeast skimming Bodmin Moor (on our left) and Dartmoor (on our right).

Our first designated full stop will be at Oakhampton. We are hoping to stop at Ian’s brother’s house for bacon butties, but worse case we will refuel at a convenient eatery.

Onwards from Oakhampton we ride through Tiverton, over the M5 to Taunton. We cross back over the M5 to Somerton, riding through the northwest edge of Longleat Forest and end at Warminster.

Total distance of this section – 206miles Total elevation of this section – 15428ft

Warminster to Lowestoft....
This will probably be the most difficult route and encounter the most traffic. Although this leg has less climbing it’s further than the previous leg and we will be tired and sore. So be prepared with your butt and muscle creams.

With a hearty breakfast inside you, we aim to depart no later than 09:00hrs.

Rolling out of Warminster, we keep our direction northeast, heading straight for Marlborough and through the North Wessex Downs. The route takes us through Henley-on-Thames and over the M25 towards Watford, the traffic is going to get heavier as get to more built up ares. On from Watford we cross back over the M25, through St Albans and onto Welwyn Garden City. Here will have our daily refuel stop. This could be an opportunity for your family/friends to meet us and say “hello” as it’s not far from home. You will need to keep them posted of our progress, as we won’t be able to predict the timing.

We follow our heading through Hertford, Ware and Bishop’s Stortford. We then cross over the M11 onto Thaxted, Sudbury and Needham Market. At Framingham we should be able to smell the sea and our heading changes slightly more north as we approach the coast. Blasting through Halesworth we turn right to Sotterley, our final stretch.

Continuing through Mutford and Carlton Colville we edge closer to the end and finish at the sea front in Lowestoft town.

Total distance of this section – 241.5miles Total elevation of this section – 12193ft


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## martint235 (5 Jan 2017)

I think that outside of major cities, you'll be surprised by how NOT open all hours the UK is. I rode from Kent to Lancashire a few years back and really struggled to find food in the early hours and I was on main routes such as the A5. Once you're past sunrise, it gets easier but I will always remember those hours of hunger. And of course once you've hit that stage, it's harder to force yourself to eat as much as you'll need to.


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## dim (5 Jan 2017)

it's going to be a tough ride if cycled over 2 sections (I converted to metric)

day 1 will be 331 km averaging 20km/hr for 17 hrs and climbing 4700 meters of hills, most of it done during the dark (start at 8pm.... cycle through the night and finish the following day at 1pm)

day/section 2 will be 387 km averaging 20km/hr for 20 hrs and climbing 3700 meters of hills, starting at 9am the following day and cycling through the day/night and finishing the next day at 4pm

it's the hills and/or wind which will hurt the legs, plus after 10-12 hrs cycling non stop, all sorts of pain kicks in (sore hands/arms/back/neck/arse etc etc plus sometimes lactic acid builds up in your legs)


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## mattobrien (5 Jan 2017)

Best of luck. Personally I wouldn't go through the night on the first night. Losing a nights sleep with over 300 miles still to ride doesn't sound attractive. 

It I were doing it over a similar time schedule, I'd try to sleep at night and maybe split into Friday night, all day Saturday and then all day Sunday. 

Maybe 60 miles Friday night, 200 miles on Saturday and 180 on Sunday. 

I still remember how hard my first Dun Run was, when after riding 112 miles to Dunwich, stopping for an hour for breakfast and then having to get back on the bike and ride the 30 miles home. The 30 miles having stopped and not slept were hard. 

Best if luck though. If you need any local knowledge, I'm 10 miles south of Framlingham, so ride round here a lot. Never as far as Lowestoft though and for good reason


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## Ben Reeve (6 Jan 2017)

Right, I've updated the plan with all of the feedback included...

http://cyclingtipshq.com/l2l-pt2-revised-training-plans

Apologies for a link away from cycle chat but it is probably the easiest way to cover it all as copying into the forum doesn't seem to recognise where words are crossed out.

Do you think this is too extreme or about right to get me across the line? Am genuinely worried about the amount of hours I'm going to have to put into this training. Don't get alot of days away from work so it fees like all the ones I have will be away from my wife for a large part of the day


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## Ajax Bay (9 Jan 2017)

Ben Reeve said:


> Lands End to Warminster....
> The routes we have created we will keep us on the quieter country roads to reduce the risk to our safety.
> [First section of the] route will take us from out of Lands End, through Sennen, Mayon and up the A30 until we turn right to Penzance. From there we will follow the coast to Marazien, then head northeast out through Relubbus. We pass through Truro and St Austell, continuing northeast skimming Bodmin Moor (on our left) and Dartmoor (on our right). Our first designated full stop will be at Oakhampton. We are hoping to stop at Ian’s brother’s house for bacon butties, but worse case we will refuel at a convenient eatery. Onwards from Oakhampton we ride through Tiverton, over the M5 to Taunton. We cross back over the M5 to Somerton, riding through the northwest edge of Longleat Forest and end at Warminster.


Ben - I hope you take this comment in the constructive spirit it's meant, and a bit OT. I have ridden nearly of the roads you describe, normally as part of 200+km rides, one of them at the same tim(ish) as you plan (leaving Penzance at 1845 and doing 125km through to midnight). I can't tell from your map which "quieter country roads" but at that time of night the roads are pretty quiet, even the main roads (not suggesting A30). Doing 'distance' using "quieter country roads" is a challenge, and at night is a significant challenge, both road width/surface/bendiness and navigation (and one you don't need), and not really safer either, at night.

I offer you an alternative A 'Part 1' route (Land's End to Warminster) going north of Bodmin Moor (your route is seriously hilly around Minions) through Launceston and Okehampton. Also be aware that the hills NE of Crediton (to Bickleigh/Tiverton) are normally worth going round (to the SE). This route has nearly 900m (3000ft) less climbing and the same distance. I can get another 1000ft off by going ENE from Wadebridge through Holsworthy, and not dropping down/across to Okehampton (acknowledge chez "Ian's brother"), on this alternative B 'Part 1' route (Land's End to Warminster) variation. I have ridden all these roads (2015/2016).

If you want, send me a link to your routes and I'll give you detailed comments (and places which might be open during the first 200km ie Saturday dawn).


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## Dogtrousers (9 Jan 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> Doing 'distance' using "quieter country roads" is a challenge, and at night is a significant challenge, both road width/surface/bendiness and navigation (and one you don't need), and not really safer either, at night.


I was going to say something like this. When I plan my rides (day rides generally) I tend to keep to quieter lanes and so forth but I know the more wiggly yellow roads I add to my route, the slower I will be. It's just the nature of the beast. And (broadly speaking) most non-dual carriageway A roads are fine to ride on and have better sight lines, more space and more chance to get into a rhythm (not to mention better surfaces) so enable quicker and easier progress.


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## Ben Reeve (9 Jan 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> Ben - I hope you take this comment in the constructive spirit it's meant, and a bit OT. I have ridden nearly of the roads you describe, normally as part of 200+km rides, one of them at the same tim(ish) as you plan (leaving Penzance at 1845 and doing 125km through to midnight). I can't tell from your map which "quieter country roads" but at that time of night the roads are pretty quiet, even the main roads (not suggesting A30). Doing 'distance' using "quieter country roads" is a challenge, and at night is a significant challenge, both road width/surface/bendiness and navigation (and one you don't need), and not really safer either, at night.
> 
> I offer you an alternative A 'Part 1' route (Land's End to Warminster) going north of Bodmin Moor (your route is seriously hilly around Minions) through Launceston and Okehampton. Also be aware that the hills NE of Crediton (to Bickleigh/Tiverton) are normally worth going round (to the SE). This route has nearly 900m (3000ft) less climbing and the same distance. I can get another 1000ft off by going ENE from Wadebridge through Holsworthy, and not dropping down/across to Okehampton (acknowledge chez "Ian's brother"), on this alternative B 'Part 1' route (Land's End to Warminster) variation. I have ridden all these roads (2015/2016).
> 
> If you want, send me a link to your routes and I'll give you detailed comments (and places which might be open during the first 200km ie Saturday dawn).



How could I not take this in the spirit it's meant. This is outstanding, I have sent this on to our ride organising and we are going to review together. Thank you so much!


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## Ajax Bay (10 Jan 2017)

mattobrien said:


> I wouldn't go through the night on the first night. Losing a nights sleep with over 300 miles still to ride doesn't sound attractive. It I were doing it over a similar time schedule, I'd try to sleep at night and maybe split into Friday night, all day Saturday and then all day Sunday. Maybe 60 miles Friday night, 200 miles on Saturday and 180 on Sunday.


@Ben Reeve - again off topic.
Drawing also on @dim analysis, I would dice this a different way by not riding over the first night (though appreciate that that may be part of the challenge). You will all be tired and stiff after many hours on the road on the Friday of the BH w/e (driving SW to Cornwall M4/M5/A30 . . . . .). I can see (assume) you have somewhere to kip at/near Warminster (~333km by one of various routes). So why not aim to arrive there for dinner and 'bedtime' Saturday (sunset is 2111) by starting from Land's End at 0530 Saturday (sunrise is 0523). Start again from Warminster at 0500 (sunrise is 0502). Stop somewhere, again for for dinner and 'bed' and finish it off on the Monday morning (sunset/sunrise in Norwich is 2104/0440). Many 400+ audaxes start at 0600 and anticipate people who want to, making a stop between 335 and 385km, having as much kip as time allows, restarting at dawn and finishing it off on Day 2. This works and maximises the use of daylight. It may mean more accommodation cost, depending on your style and contacts.


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## Ben Reeve (10 Jan 2017)

Ajax, I don't know what to say, you have been incredible with some of your ideas. We are re sculpting our route on the back of your incredible input.

This is the beauty of CycleChat right here. Thank you so much


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## Ajax Bay (10 Jan 2017)

Warminster to Welwyn GC: 196km + 1481m: Warminster, Westbury, east to the north of Salisbury Plain, Pewsey, Hungerford, Newbury, Goring, Henley, Marlow, Beaconsfield, Chalfont St G, Hemel Hempstead, St Alban's, Welwyn GC. I have ridden the first half of this route (during Exeter to Oxford). With an early start Sunday (eg 5am) you could make home at tea time!

Then there's the same again: 196km + 1145m: Welwyn GC to Lowestoft: Welwyn GC, Ware, Bishop's Stortford, Haverhill (SW of), Long Melford (about half way, 5km N of Sudbury), Needham Market, A1120 till Badingham, Halesworth, Brampton, Lowestoft. Wrench yourselves away from 'home' and split that between Sunday evening and Monday morning.


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