# Taking off the Front Wheel... London Underground!



## TheLondonCyclist (13 Feb 2014)

I was just curious, what makes a bike? obviously a full bike would be classed as a bike, but what if one took the front wheel off? it would be a frame and wheel, then you'd have another wheel randomly in your other hand. Would it still be classed as a bike? another thing I found is that a customer was told by a nice worker that if he "wrapped" the bike up in something, then it would be classed as luggage and would be allowed on, but still take up the same room on the train...

What do you think about this bicycle business on the underground?


----------



## Shut Up Legs (13 Feb 2014)

Inconsistent? A classic case of double-standards? 
I've been wondering the same thing in relation to our train system in Melbourne. The train operators refuse to guarantee you'll be allowed to take bicycles on the train, and you get charged extra for taking them on the longer-distance country trains. However, someone could turn up to a metro/country train with a large pram and be allowed on without question.
I do of course realise that you must make allowances for parents with very young kids, but it's still inconsistent, and the number of bicycles or prams on any given train is likely to be relatively small on any given day (unless there's a special event on catering to each of these groups).


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (13 Feb 2014)

victor said:


> Inconsistent? A classic case of double-standards?
> I've been wondering the same thing in relation to our train system in Melbourne. The train operators refuse to guarantee you'll be allowed to take bicycles on the train, and you get charged extra for taking them on the longer-distance country trains. However, someone could turn up to a metro/country train with a large pram and be allowed on without question.
> I do of course realise that you must make allowances for parents with very young kids, but it's still inconsistent, and the number of bicycles or prams on any given train is likely to be relatively small on any given day (unless there's a special event on catering to each of these groups).


We have huge escalators on some of the underground stations and parents are allowed to take their pram on the escalators with their child still in it, but it's considered dangerous for a person to take a bicycle on the escalators lol


----------



## L14M (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> We have huge escalators on some of the underground stations and parents are allowed to take their pram on the escalators with their child still in it, but it's considered dangerous for a person to take a bicycle on the escalators lol


Use the lift?

I was thinking about folding bikes.. technically they are bikes?


----------



## MissTillyFlop (13 Feb 2014)

victor said:


> Inconsistent? A classic case of double-standards?
> I've been wondering the same thing in relation to our train system in Melbourne. The train operators refuse to guarantee you'll be allowed to take bicycles on the train, and you get charged extra for taking them on the longer-distance country trains. However, someone could turn up to a metro/country train with a large pram and be allowed on without question.
> I do of course realise that you must make allowances for parents with very young kids, but it's still inconsistent, and the number of bicycles or prams on any given train is likely to be relatively small on any given day (unless there's a special event on catering to each of these groups).


It rather depends when you are taking them on. During rush hour it is a mission to get a very small person on with no luggage at all.

Also, parents are NOT allowed to take on prams and push chairs onto the tube and escalators, you are supposed to collapse them, it's just everyone ignores that.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (13 Feb 2014)

L14M said:


> Use the lift?
> 
> I was thinking about folding bikes.. technically they are bikes?


Folding bikes are allowed because they take up less room, but normal sized bikes aren't, even though some prams are big as or bigger than some bikes.. like BMX bikes for example.


----------



## Sara_H (13 Feb 2014)

MissTillyFlop said:


> It rather depends when you are taking them on. During rush hour it is a mission to get a very small person on with no luggage at all.
> 
> Also, parents are NOT allowed to take on prams and push chairs onto the tube and escalators, you are supposed to collapse them, it's just everyone ignores that.


I once saw a pushchair with baby in it tumble all the way down an escalator. The screams of both mum and baby were horrific. Baby very badly bruised at the bottom. Twas horrendous.


----------



## ScotiaLass (13 Feb 2014)

In an ideal world, the operators would put on an extra carriage, half seating, half bike racks. Sorted.


----------



## MissTillyFlop (13 Feb 2014)

ScotiaLass said:


> In an ideal world, the operators would put on an extra carriage, half seating, half bike racks. Sorted.



Yes! And have crazy things like, oh, I dunno, a LIFT (try going round London Underground with a wheelchair user, it's near freaking impossible!)

I mean it's all very well and good saying you should do this and that, but if you are on your own with two small chldren, how the hell are you supposed to carry a folded up push chair, them and and any bags you have? I don't even have any children and that's so obvious it hurts me!


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> Folding bikes are allowed because they take up less room, but normal sized bikes aren't, even though some prams are big as or bigger than some bikes.. like BMX bikes for example.


Ride the bike rather than taking it on the underground. You are allowed bikes on ground level lines, at least off peak. On deep lines not, as they pose a hazard in case of emergency etc. makes sense


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

ScotiaLass said:


> In an ideal world, the operators would put on an extra carriage, half seating, half bike racks. Sorted.


On the underground why? At busy times there is barely room to stand 
Surely the bike is its own mode of transport. Even the Dutch only have limited space for bikes on trains


----------



## Dan B (13 Feb 2014)

Last time I wanted to put a bike on the underground it was because it was broken. The bike, I mean, not the underground


----------



## L14M (13 Feb 2014)

Lol,
I have had to take bike on the underground before but that's due to getting a connection train then finally in Luton I cycle the last 10miles


----------



## ScotiaLass (13 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> On the underground why? At busy times there is barely room to stand
> Surely the bike is its own mode of transport. Even the Dutch only have limited space for bikes on trains


I meant on trains lol


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

Original post about underground. Aren't bikes for riding outside, not transporting on trains


----------



## srw (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> What do you think about this bicycle business on the underground?


What bicycle business on the underground?

When trying to take bikes on trains, rule number 1 is "don't be a twat". Taking the front wheel off and calling it luggage falls squarely in the realm of being a twat. Being a twat not only pisses of your fellow passengers but also turns train staff against cyclists in general.


----------



## Matthames (13 Feb 2014)

Folding bike wins hands down as it is classed as luggage when folded.

I noticed that train companies don't look to fondly on bike and trailer combinations; however, you are allowed to take two large pieces of luggage and a small bag with you. So what if you have a folding bike and a trailer that you can convert into a hand trolley with large wheels?

As for riding the underground with a bike. If it is within zone 1 and 2 I would probably wouldn't bother. Exploring London is so much more interesting from the surface. As for the other zones, depending on my mood, how I am feeling and the weather I would either take the tube or ride.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (13 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Ride the bike rather than taking it on the underground. You are allowed bikes on ground level lines, at least off peak. On deep lines not, as they pose a hazard in case of emergency etc. makes sense


You are allowed full sized bikes on the Underground in non peak times. 

It doesn't pose a hazard... If a bike poses a hazard, then a large pram does, too.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (13 Feb 2014)

I'm talking about in a situation if you get a puncture or have a crash and mess up your wheel.. you gonna pay a premium price for a cab? or get the train home.


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> you gonna pay a premium price for a cab? or get the train home.



Yes, as I live closer to the train than tube


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> You are allowed full sized bikes on the Underground in non peak times.



Only on certain lines/stations...my nearest tube is the Northern Line...folding bikes only according to this

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11701.aspx

Quite right that prams are allowed...I am guessing you have never travelled with small children and no pram

I think you'll find most prams fold up much smaller than a full sized bike


----------



## 400bhp (13 Feb 2014)

This thread reminds me of Ali G.


----------



## stu9000 (13 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Ride the bike rather than taking it on the underground. You are allowed bikes on ground level lines, at least off peak. On deep lines not, as they pose a hazard in case of emergency etc. makes sense


Indeed! I rode into Covent garden from Worcester park the I other week. I'm not speedy but I did I it in under an hour when the train usually takes 35m plus the muckingf about with the tube. Since I got into cyclin I'm amazed at how many journeys are less stressful, quicker and easier to park. LOVE IT.


----------



## stu9000 (13 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> I'm talking about in a situation if you get a puncture or have a crash and mess up your wheel.. you gonna pay a premium price for a cab? or get the train home.


..? Or change the inner tube and be on your merry way.


----------



## stu9000 (13 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> This thread reminds me of Ali G.


OK,,, I give in. Why?


----------



## vickster (13 Feb 2014)

stu9000 said:


> Indeed! I rode into Covent garden from Worcester park the I other week. I'm not speedy but I did I it in under an hour when the train usually takes 35m plus the muckingf about with the tube. Since I got into cyclin I'm amazed at how many journeys are less stressful, quicker and easier to park. LOVE IT.


Which way do you ride? Once the weather gets better, I shall ride into the city


----------



## srw (14 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Ride the bike rather than taking it on the underground. You are allowed bikes on ground level lines, at least off peak. On deep lines not, as they pose a hazard in case of emergency etc. makes sense


Folding bikes are fine everywhere - preferably Brompton style rather than 26" Dahon. Ordinary bikes are fine everywhere on the District, Metropolitan, H&C and Circle lines - as long as you're travelling off-peak. Less ordinary bikes can easily blagged on if the underground isn't that busy. I speak as someone who has taken a very large bike (about 7' long) on the Met line from both Aldgate and Kings Cross.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (14 Feb 2014)

stu9000 said:


> ..? Or change the inner tube and be on your merry way.


I doubt you'll be able to fix a buckled wheel after a slight crash lol


----------



## vickster (14 Feb 2014)

Don't know why he can't just wheel the bike to a shop to get it fixed on the odd chance it was involved in a crash? Or wheel it home? What on earth did he do when the tube strike was on last week?! Or if he wants to use the tube not the bike, wouldn't it be easier to just leave the bike at home and take the tube unhindered?


----------



## Spinney (14 Feb 2014)

What about crashing after the bike shops are shut? It was just a question...


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (14 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> What about crashing after the bike shops are shut? It was just a question...


Thank you. I've been stranded in central London at midnight because I buckled my wheel and the train people wouldn't let me on, even though it was a ghost town and no one was in the station as it was a Tuesday. I had to walk 10 miles home.


----------



## vickster (14 Feb 2014)

Spinney said:


> What about crashing after the bike shops are shut? It was just a question...


Take it home....lock it up somewhere?

Presumably LC doesn't live on one of the lines that takes tubes? Or anywhere near an overground station (which seems surprising as they are all over)


----------



## Dan B (14 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Don't know why he can't just wheel the bike to a shop to get it fixed on the odd chance it was involved in a crash? Or wheel it home? What on earth did he do when the tube strike was on last week


Wheeling a bike anywhere is a bit of a faff if one of the wheels won't go around: due e.g. to being pringled. And while I have locked up cheap bikes in London and still found them there the next day, I wouldn't risk that with a nice bike.

I don't see how the tube strike is relevant to this. I doubt any of us are in the habit of daily commuting by tube with a broken bicycle


----------



## vickster (14 Feb 2014)

Well it seems that he prefers to take his bike on the tube rather than walking it? Is it really practical for full sized bikes to be carried on tube trains, especially at peak times! His initial post never mentioned the occasional need to take a broken bike on the tube. I'd get a train (outside rush hour) or a cab myself


----------



## L14M (14 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Well it seems that he prefers to take his bike on the tube rather than walking it? Is it really practical for full sized bikes to be carried on tube trains, especially at peak times! His initial post never mentioned the occasional need to take a broken bike on the tube. I'd get a train (outside rush hour) or a cab myself


Perhaps others don't hence the need to ask this question!?!


----------



## vickster (14 Feb 2014)

Don't what?


----------



## L14M (14 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Don't what?


 Sorry should have said, want to pay premium rates for a taxi or walk for miles! If I had to push my bike home from school it'd take a good 2 -3 hours!


----------



## vickster (14 Feb 2014)

No train station?Leave the bike at school? You can take your bike on tubes just not the deeper lines. Mostly ok in the suburbs. How far is school from home? No parent on hand? What would you do if hurt?
It would seem sensible to have a contingency plan if you are a minor.

How often does this actually happen to people?!

If accident someone else's fault, keep the taxi receipt as part of claim.


----------



## Spinney (14 Feb 2014)

You know, this thread started off as a simple discussion about whether taking the wheel of a bike rendered it 'not a bike' in terms of taking it on the underground. Several people have pointed out why it would be best for them, in the case of damage to the bike, to get home using the underground. That's all. There's really no need to go on and on about the other possible options. The fact that this doesn't happen often doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed.


----------



## BikeLiker (14 Feb 2014)

Bikes are allowed on Merseyrail at all times. I know it's a MUCH smaller network but there are 4.5 underground stations which cyclists use without problems, including the escalators. Riding is not an option as the train is the only way to cross the river without going on a one hour cruise to view derelict docklands.


----------



## Spinney (14 Feb 2014)

User13710 said:


> Is that an ordinary opinion or a Mod opinion? Is there a problem with long rambly threads?


A bit of both. If it was a serious mod warning, this would have been clear.
As a reader of the thread, the tone appeared to be becoming a little antagonistic, that is all. Rambly isn't a problem, unless it goes off topic, but keeping the tone friendly is good.


----------



## jefmcg (14 Feb 2014)

If this is a serious concern to the OP, it might be worth investing in something like
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/mem-st-cycle-rescue-home-Cycle-Rescue-Home-0
https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/rescue.asp?product=Cycle&promCode
https://www.eta.co.uk/breakdown/bicycle/

(they all seem to be cheaper than a taxi ride, and even compare favourably to a £5+ tube ride)


----------



## fossyant (14 Feb 2014)

Topic started at 2:30 in the morning ? Been on the booze ?

Anyway, this is a silly question. The OP is a cyclist, the answer is he cycles and doesn't catch the train. As for a broken bike, there are plenty of bike shops !


----------



## gaz (15 Feb 2014)

L14M said:


> Use the lift?
> 
> I was thinking about folding bikes.. technically they are bikes?


Not all underground stations have lifts.


----------



## gaz (15 Feb 2014)

fossyant said:


> Topic started at 2:30 in the morning ? Been on the booze ?
> 
> Anyway, this is a silly question. The OP is a cyclist, the answer is he cycles and doesn't catch the train. As for a broken bike, there are plenty of bike shops !


If the post was made at 2:30 in the morning then he could have broken his bike at that time? Not many shops open then :P


----------



## L14M (15 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> Not all underground stations have lifts.


That's a good point, infact most out here don't even have an escalator!


vickster said:


> No train station?Leave the bike at school? You can take your bike on tubes just not the deeper lines. Mostly ok in the suburbs. How far is school from home? No parent on hand? What would you do if hurt?
> It would seem sensible to have a contingency plan if you are a minor.
> 
> How often does this actually happen to people?!
> ...



Well I usually Can take my bike on the tube! Infact if I get a puncture it would work out faster than actually fixing it roadside!
If I was hurt then it would be a serious incident and an ambulance would Probably be called!
My school is a 7.5Mile ride which I only ride during summer


----------



## gaz (15 Feb 2014)

2931211 said:


> Nor tube lines.


haha oh yeah!


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> haha oh yeah!


There was some news that London Underground will be open all night soon, should be good if you have an accident at 2am.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

2931546 said:


> Some of the Underground, not all of it. So possibly useful, if you find yourself unable to cycle, near a line that is cycle permitted and goes your way.


The weekend "night tube" service will start on the Piccadilly, Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines, as well as key sections of the Northern line, from 2015. All stations will be staffed while services operate. The network, which should be expanded to other lines in future, is planned to dovetail with night buses for integrated services through the night.

It looks promising, but it only seems to be on the weekends. Luckily I live next to all of these. So weekend rides would be good for all nighters.


----------



## gaz (15 Feb 2014)

In addition to Adrians post. This is a useful map for seeing which services you may take an unfolded bike on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/bicycle-tube-map.pdf


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

2931573 said:


> None of which are permitted for bikes in central London


I can take my bike on the Jubilee line in none peek hours. I'd assume after 9pm or so, peek hours won't be, so I'd have to find a station with stairs or lift to use it. I have taken my bike at Embankment with no problems before, so I'm hopeful


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

gaz said:


> In addition to Adrians post. This is a useful map for seeing which services you may take an unfolded bike on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/bicycle-tube-map.pdf


That map's a beauty. Very helpful.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

2931573 said:


> None of which are permitted for bikes in central London


A lot of stations in central London allow bikes on.. I've used Embankment a number of times in out of peek hours.


----------



## vickster (15 Feb 2014)

I think Embankment is actually closed for Bakerloo and Northern at the mo, for much of the year indeed


----------



## vickster (15 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Only on certain lines/stations...my nearest tube is the Northern Line...folding bikes only according to this
> 
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11701.aspx


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> I think Embankment is actually closed for Bakerloo and Northern at the mo, for much of the year indeed


I use the Jubilee, so all is good  jump from one train to another :P


----------



## vickster (15 Feb 2014)

Yes, but according to the map only folders on the Jubilee in the centre, so not at Southwark, Waterloo or the others close to Embankment


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Yes, but according to the map only folders on the Jubilee in the centre, so not at Southwark, Waterloo or the others close to Embankment


Grab train from Embankment and do the switcheroo at another station without getting caught, do it all the time when taking bike for wheel repair lol


----------



## vickster (15 Feb 2014)

Maybe you need better wheels


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (15 Feb 2014)

vickster said:


> Maybe you need better wheels


or a better mechanic.. Halfords bodged my wheels more than once. I'll never go back


----------



## subaqua (16 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> We have huge escalators on some of the underground stations and *parents are allowed to take their pram on the escalators with their child still in it,* but it's considered dangerous for a person to take a bicycle on the escalators lol


 Actually they are not , all the signs say the prams must be folded. it is rarely if ever enforced .


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (16 Feb 2014)

subaqua said:


> Actually they are not , all the signs say the prams must be folded. it is rarely if ever enforced .


Already been discussed, but what I was getting at is they're aloud through with their prams and kids and proceed to go down the escalators with it (with their child in it) when cyclists can't take a bike down them. Know what I mean? there should be more control over this as one stated that they witnessed a woman's baby and pram fall down the oscillators.


----------



## srw (16 Feb 2014)

TheLondonCyclist said:


> I use the Jubilee, so all is good  jump from one train to another :P





TheLondonCyclist said:


> Grab train from Embankment and do the switcheroo at another station without getting caught, do it all the time when taking bike for wheel repair lol


I think this also falls under the rubrick of "being a twat". You may not like the rules, but they're there. If people follow them they're more likely to be loosened. If people don't, they're more likely to be strengthened.


----------



## lazy (18 Feb 2014)

After finishing my 12 hours night shift my cycle was punctured at about 4 miles away from my home,with no backup i blame myself for that,

i ran towards nearest bus stop and waited about 5 minutes Mr bus driver who seemed to hate cyclists very angry refused me to be on bus even though i tried to explain my situation, so i decided to walk to next bus stop instead of waiting, again the driver refused i also offered i can take both wheels off yes not one but both but computer says No was the answer.

long story short i end up walking home :/ but lesson learned i keep full kit now


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (18 Feb 2014)

lazy said:


> After finishing my 12 hours night shift my cycle was punctured at about 4 miles away from my home,with no backup i blame myself for that,
> 
> i ran towards nearest bus stop and waited about 5 minutes Mr bus driver who seemed to hate cyclists very angry refused me to be on bus even though i tried to explain my situation, so i decided to walk to next bus stop instead of waiting, again the driver refused i also offered i can take both wheels off yes not one but both but computer says No was the answer.
> 
> long story short i end up walking home :/ but lesson learned i keep full kit now


Imagine walking 10 miles in road shoes lol I'd end up in a corner and cry looool.


----------



## SquareDaff (18 Feb 2014)

Raid someones lawn for grass!


----------



## StuartG (18 Feb 2014)

Some people forget the tube is mostly staffed by umanbeins. Try and fiddle your way through and you are likely be told to go away. Be distraught with an unrideable bike on a wet night out of rush hour and you will probably be waved through with a smile. And should you meet a jobsworth then it being London there will be another bus along shortly or the next station is probably within walking distance.

Some stations (like Kings Cross) have lines that take bikes (out of rush hours) and lines that don't. There is one barrier so if you say you are taking the Circle you might be able to get it on the Northern if you are discrete. You will get a bollocking at the other end but they aren't going to send you back.


----------



## CopperBrompton (18 Feb 2014)

jefmcg said:


> If this is a serious concern to the OP, it might be worth investing in something like
> http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/mem-st-cycle-rescue-home-Cycle-Rescue-Home-0
> https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/rescue.asp?product=Cycle&promCode
> https://www.eta.co.uk/breakdown/bicycle/


These are all the same service rebadged. The offer is:
"Call Assist will take you and your bicycle to a bicycle repair shop, railway station, car rental agency or your home or alternative overnight accommodation *if either are nearer*."

So, you're stuck somewhere out of office hours, all they will do is take you to a train station (pointless if you can't get a train home) or a car rental agency (will be more expensive than a taxi). They will only take you home if it's nearer than either of the above.


----------

