# Admission:- I can't ride no hands !



## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

Despite 30 years cycling under my belt - I can't ride no hands. To be honest I don't try much - I just couldn't let go of the bars .......

Any tips for mastering this skill ? painlessly ?


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## MiK1138 (22 Dec 2017)

Don't, you are in charge of a vehicle and should maintain control at all times, It rips my knitting when I see people riding with no hands, usually texting, the very thing they would scream blue murder about if it was a motorist


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## Illaveago (22 Dec 2017)

I used to be able to when I was young. It could be down to the type of cycle you ride, some are more twichy than others and some are more relaxed.


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## Tim Hall (22 Dec 2017)

MiK1138 said:


> Don't, you are in charge of a vehicle and should maintain control at all times, It rips my knitting when I see people riding with no hands, usually texting, the very thing they would scream blue murder about if it was a motorist


I think the difference in damage potential from the two modes of transport has some relevance here.


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## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

MiK1138 said:


> Don't, you are in charge of a vehicle and should maintain control at all times, It rips my knitting when I see people riding with no hands, usually texting, the very thing they would scream blue murder about if it was a motorist



I know and agree - But I completed the birmingham velo this year - which was fantastic and my best cycling achievement- I intend to do it again next year and it would be the icing on the cake to cross the finish line no hands !


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## MiK1138 (22 Dec 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> I think the difference in damage potential from the two modes of transport has some relevance here.


I think thats a cop out to excuse behavior we complain about when we see other road users doing it. and the weight of my bike will have no bearing on the impact of damage should i hit a pothole and go down


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## flake99please (22 Dec 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> I think the difference in damage potential from the two modes of transport has some relevance here.



Would you say the same thing about jumping a Red light?


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## Tim Hall (22 Dec 2017)

MiK1138 said:


> I think thats a cop out to excuse behavior we complain about when we see other road users doing it. and the weight of my bike will have no bearing on the impact of damage should i hit a pothole and go down


The damage to you. The damage an uncontrolled motor vehicle can cause to other people is considerable.

(Edit, TMN^2)


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## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

*Chill out guys its christmas ! *- I was hoping this would be a lighthearted thread - full of epic fails - !!!!


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## Banjo (22 Dec 2017)

Im not very confident doing it but basic principle is sit very upright with center of weight to the back.

On my old trek hybrid it was easy.cant do it on my jamis aurora at all for some reason.

Some riders I know put jackets on and off still riding fast.


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## Tim Hall (22 Dec 2017)

kingrollo said:


> *Chill out guys its christmas ! *- I was hoping this would be a lighthearted thread - full of epic fails - !!!!


LMNH would have to change its name to LMONWRIFCOTB.

(Look mum, one hand while remaining in full control of the bike)


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## flake99please (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Can we have "I saw a cyclist with no lights" for a full house?



Why not? It is Christmas after all...


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## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Have you tried taking your hands off a couple of inches and keeping them there within easy reach?


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## Jason (22 Dec 2017)

Have always been able to do it and still do when away from other traffic/bikes/pedestrians if i need to adjust clothing, reach for a energy bar or just to relieve pressure on my hands for 10 seconds.
start by picking a very quiet slightly downhill section of path - and keep yourself centred on the bike, then let go with one hand, and slowly gradually lift other hand away (keep it close to the grip, until you master the skill).
a bit of speed actually helps the bike to go straight.

don't worry about the PC brigade - you want to have that no hands moment across the finish line - GOOD LUCK !!


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## MiK1138 (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Where did this bit come from?


The amount of people i see riding along no handed and sending a text or at least fiddling with their phone is unreal


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## MiK1138 (22 Dec 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> The damage to you. The damage an uncontrolled motor vehicle can cause to other people is considerable.
> 
> (Edit, TMN^2)


I'm not arguing that fact i just think we should practice what we preach. @kingrollo sorry for bringing your thread down, maybe i am just a grumpy old barsteward coz i cant do it either


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## MiK1138 (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> That is as maybe but the OP didn't ask for advice so that they could do that.


I'm not saying he did, it was merely an observation


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## Jody (22 Dec 2017)

Get up to speed, sit as up right as possible and then let go for 5 seconds, then increase the length of time. Your bike is stable at speed. Its more of a psychological thing. Iv'e never really thought about it as I have done it from such a young age. 

The bike you do it on also has some bearing. My MTB is much more stable no hands even on bumpy rutted tracks/trails than the road bike is on tarmac.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Dec 2017)

I remember once being lectured about not wearing a helmet by someone riding with no hands. Halfway through -having ensured the road was traffic and pedestrian free) I shouted "LOOK OUT, STOP!" and slammed the brakes on...

It stopped the lecture.

I never learned to ride with no hands either, on the basis I'm quite capable of falling off on a clear road with both hands on the handlebars. I could ask my kids, except that'd be the most embarrassingly naff dad thing I could think of to do...


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## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

Has he been yet? Has he been yet? Has he been yet? ... every Christmas morning it was the same, we couldn’t open our presents until dad had been for a shoot.....


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## Andy in Germany (22 Dec 2017)

User13710 said:


> Yeah but, isn't it all about the bike?



Probably. I know my Bakfiets will keep going in the same direction when I take my hands off the handlebars and will not change unless it encounters a solid object or is hit by a meteor


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## Profpointy (22 Dec 2017)

It is harder on some bikes than others.
I find my so-say stable Thorn tourer quite hard to ride no hands, but my more sporty Condor is easy. No doubt a more skilled person could ride pretty much anything no handed but some are easier than others


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## Profpointy (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Anyone who can manage any distance no-hands on a Brompton is probably a demi-god.



Not tried that yet but I'm not too optimistic !


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## Randomnerd (22 Dec 2017)

I've a heavy Dutch bike I could get completely naked on, jump off doing back-flips down the towpath and vault back on and it would still be going in a straight line (anyone want the Youtube link? Thought not....)
I've a road bike I have to use both arms and pray to keep upright.
Wouldn't dare do it on the good bike, for fear of having to lie to the insurance company.
Used to do it all the time down our street as a lad on the Raleigh Chico, until my father came out of the house and tore me a strip off (there we go again!) in front of my mates. Now every time I think about going hands-free, i remember the old goat shouting, and keep a grip.
I too still dream of being able to slip on a jacket at 20mph, or re-comb a stray lock after a hairy descent.


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## GuyBoden (22 Dec 2017)




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## nickyboy (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Have you tried taking your hands off a couple of inches and keeping them there within easy reach?



My gut feeling is that's a recipe for disaster unless you're on a real "sit up and beg" bike. I think you need the rider's centre of gravity as near as possible to the bike's centre of gravity. So that means sitting up as straight in the saddle as possible

I can do it, but it needs confidence to sit bolt upright and keep going at a reasonable speed. As soon as you start leaning forward a bit "in case you wobble"....you wobble


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## vickster (22 Dec 2017)

MiK1138 said:


> The amount of people i see riding along no handed and sending a text or at least fiddling with their phone is unreal


Are they doing anyone any harm?

I can’t do it for more than about 2 seconds, but I’m a girly wuss


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## Katherine (22 Dec 2017)

It is indeed very satisfying to go over the finish line of a challenging event with your hands in the air!

So... 
Practice on a smooth, quiet road or path.

Don't have anything heavy on the handlebars, like lights or bar bag. 

It's much easier if you don't have anything else attached to the bike that can affect the balance and steering, like drinks bottles and rear luggage but these can be added once you have mastered the skills.

It's easier to balance if you look ahead rather than what your hands are doing. 

As others have said, get a bit of speed up to keep the momentum and it's easier to keep peddling in a high gear so you are doing quite a low steady cadence. 

Start with one hand. When you are really confident, riding with one hand, lift the other hand off the bars just a few inches. When you can keep going like this for a while, then gradually try sitting up for longer periods. 

Pretend that you are going over the finish line!


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Dec 2017)

kingrollo said:


> I know and agree - But I completed the birmingham velo this year - which was fantastic and my best cycling achievement- I intend to do it again next year and it would be the icing on the cake to cross the finish line no hands !


Is it a race?
Will you win it?
(Even if you can answer yes to both there may be hazards....
)


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## MarkF (22 Dec 2017)

Banjo said:


> Im not very confident doing it but basic principle is sit very upright with center of weight to the back.



Yes, I managed it in the summer after 30 years of "forgetting " how to do it, getting upright quickly with my weight to the rear did the trick, it was just like being a teenager again.


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## Katherine (22 Dec 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Is it a race?
> Will you win it?
> (Even if you can answer yes to both there may be hazards....
> )



Yikes!

Not a good idea in a large group.


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## Katherine (22 Dec 2017)

User13710 said:


> Not a good idea to be standing about in the road just beyond the finish line you mean?


That as well.

Riding no hands is ok as long as there are no hazards.


I have enjoyed going over the finish line of sportives with no hands where they do staggered starts and it's a steady trickle of riders, not a large group riding together.


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## GuyBoden (22 Dec 2017)

You feel the small movements in the front wheel and compensate by constantly slightly shifting your weight. It's a balancing act...............


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## GuyBoden (22 Dec 2017)

A well balanced bike will travel in a straight line without a rider, until it slows down. There's a video somewhere showing this.........


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## Sharky (22 Dec 2017)

Easy peasy...


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## lazybloke (22 Dec 2017)

Speaking of no handed cycling, some years ago I was out cycling with friends when one of them stood on her crossbar with arms outstretched, _at speed_. It was very impressive - something I'd never seen attempted before (or since). How she got back down on her bike without crashing is a mystery.

We were later married, and she gave me a unicycle on our wedding day - which I've utterly failed to master. So no running away to the circus.


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## Maenchi (22 Dec 2017)

question is.....could you do it when you were younger ? when I was a kid it was no problem ! but recently I couldn't get why i'd lost it even for a few seconds to zip up a jacket was dodgy....then I put a longer stem on and the balance was right.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Dec 2017)

User13710 said:


> Isn't it all about the bike?


Offset.


Maenchi said:


> then I put a longer stem on and the balance was right


Btw why would a change of stem length have anything to do with it?


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## kingrollo (22 Dec 2017)

Maenchi said:


> question is.....could you do it when you were younger ? when I was a kid it was no problem ! but recently I couldn't get why i'd lost it even for a few seconds to zip up a jacket was dodgy....then I put a longer stem on and the balance was right.



no never been able to do it ......even as a kid !


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## Illaveago (22 Dec 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Is it a race?
> Will you win it?
> (Even if you can answer yes to both there may be hazards....
> )



Did anyone utter that phrase that Rennie Artois used to in Allo Allo!


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## lazybloke (22 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Is this her?
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/hX9phXawPc4



No brakes on that bike. Dangerous.


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## Sunny Portrush (22 Dec 2017)

I`m brilliant at doing it......on the turbo

Road bike - for about 2 milliseconds


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## Maenchi (22 Dec 2017)

I replaced the 90mm stem it came with for a 110mm, it's a mountain bike, but I very rarely go off road, I made it more suitable for road riding, and was pleasantly surprised when I lifted my hands off the bars that I could steer hands free like I used to: (not a regular habit though)
Kingrollo; if you did't go hands free as a kid I doubt you'll do it now, best not to, I still just stop to do things rather than winging it and falling off;


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## Dave 123 (22 Dec 2017)

My mountain bike is perfect for no handed (on the road)
My road bikes are ok, if a little more twitchy.
The fun comes on the tandem... it’s possible, but the bollocking starts fairly quickly!!!

Try riding along with the lightest of pressure on the bars with each of your index finger tips. Remove one from the bars, then the other.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Dec 2017)

As a kid I could ride my bike sitting on the handlebars.


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## Jody (22 Dec 2017)

Maenchi said:


> I replaced the 90mm stem it came with for a 110mm, it's a mountain bike, but I very rarely go off road, I made it more suitable for road riding, and was pleasantly surprised when I lifted my hands off the bars that I could steer hands free like I used to:



Stem length has no relevance to riding no hands


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## Salty seadog (22 Dec 2017)

Always been able to do it, putting on gloves or or a pocket jacket etc, last year I tried a first for me though, on a downhill so no need to pedal I stood up on the pedals no handed. Chuffed.


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## BoldonLad (22 Dec 2017)

Illaveago said:


> I used to be able to when I was young.................
> .



Oh dear.... that is so true, of so many things


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## Brandane (22 Dec 2017)

flake99please said:


> Would you say the same thing about jumping a Red light?


Actually; yes I would as long as it is done with a touch of common sense ... But at the risk of bringing the thread down even further, there are certain freedoms afforded to cyclists which are not enjoyed by vehicle drivers, in recognition of the fact that the chances are we are only going to hurt ourselves if/when things go pear shaped. For instance we can ride a bike after a visit to the pub and as long as we're not stupidly drunk then it is legal. Do we really want to be legislated to the same degree as motorists? A very dangerous road to go down IMHO... Long live the freedom of the bicycle rider; it is one of the main attractions for me!


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## Maenchi (22 Dec 2017)

Jody said:


> Stem length has no relevance to riding no hands


yeah sure never really said it did , just that I found that with a longer stem I could. this is where someone on here will get all scientific on it with geometry ect;
(i'm not suggesting it)


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## Globalti (22 Dec 2017)

The simple answer is that you are trying to ride no-hands too slowly. The bike needs to be going fast so that gyroscopic force keeps the front wheel stable.


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## Tim Hall (22 Dec 2017)

Globalti said:


> The simple answer is that you are trying to ride no-hands too slowly. The bike needs to be going fast so that gyroscopic force keeps the front wheel stable.


Gyroscopic forces don't play much, if any part, in keeping a bike upright, as I understand it. It's more to do with balance and moving the bike around underneath you. There was an experiment on a frozen lake using a bike with contrarotating wheels to balance out gyroscopic forces, although I can't find a link right now.


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## pjd57 (22 Dec 2017)

When I was 10 I could do everything but stop , no hands.
Corners , circles , downhill, uphill no bother.

Now I wouldn't even try.


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## Jenkins (22 Dec 2017)

So long as there's no traffic or cross winds to upset the balance, it's easy. 

Wheelies on the other hand...


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## Sharky (22 Dec 2017)

What's that old joke I heard when I was a kid ...

Child riding round the block.
- First time - "Look Dad - No hands"
- Second time - "Look Dad - No feet"
- Third time -

"Look Dad - No teeth"


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## raleighnut (23 Dec 2017)

I used to be able to ride 'no handed' but somehow lost the ability probably at around 40 (a long while ago anyway) and this was on the same bike I've owned since 1980 (and been riding since 1976) Funnily enough I saw my cousin Graham, who's bike it is really, last weekend and he was asking about it. It'll be the Carltons 50th birthday in 2018.


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## DanZac (23 Dec 2017)

I find the bike makes a big difference. My touring set up I can happily ride no handed complete with bar bags, panniers and all the other junk. 
My road bike on the other hand tends to start to shimmy at about 16-17 mph which seems to be about the best speed for balancing it. It's still possible but I need to rest a knee on the top tube which stops the shimmy, obviously you can't then peddle so it' only possible down hill. What's that all about?


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## LeetleGreyCells (23 Dec 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> And I've never actually figured out what bunny hops are.


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## Ajax Bay (23 Dec 2017)

Globalti said:


> so that gyroscopic force keeps the front wheel stable.





Tim Hall said:


> Gyroscopic forces don't play much, if any part, in keeping a bike upright


Tim - can't you recognise a G-i wind up when you read it?


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## SuperHans123 (23 Dec 2017)

Occasionally when I am on a cycle track and need to do a button up or something.


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## T4tomo (23 Dec 2017)

User said:


> Have you tried taking your hands off a couple of inches and keeping them there within easy reach?


That genrally doesn't help much, as it's easier to balance sat upright with your weight back. You need to fully commit! That said it makes for an epic fail if you have one of those twitchy bikes that is very hard to ride no hands


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## T4tomo (23 Dec 2017)

User said:


> I am talking about small steps as a training program. Obviously the aim is to be able to ride all day with your hands behind your head.


I realise that, but as ones weight is then forward, it tends to make you wobble and put your hand back down and then never progress beyond letting go of the bars for a few seconds. It's better to get sat up straight with one hand on the bars, then let go and keep your weight back of centre. 

A fairly scant analogy to teaching kids to swim by throwing them in the deep end, but less cruel!!


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## Globalti (23 Dec 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> Tim - can't you recognise a G-i wind up when you read it?



Not a wind-up! In years of cycling I have come to the conclusion that steering caster and gyroscopic force are of equal importance in keeping a bicycle in a straight line, with gyroscopic force diminishing in effect as the bike slows.


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## Ian H (23 Dec 2017)

It improves your bike-handling skills overall if you don't feel you have to be locked to the bars all the time. It also allows you to adjust clothing, stretch your back (v useful on long rides), etc.


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## Globalti (23 Dec 2017)

Yes, as I age I find that after about 20 miles I am getting pins and needles in my hands, which I think is more back-related than hand, but sitting up straight and flapping my arms and hands around brings relief. I might take off one day, who knows?

I also sit up to freewheel and enjoy the view, straighten my neck, change hand position on the bars and I have even removed a waterproof on the go although the moment when both hands are still in the sleeves is scary.


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## nickyboy (23 Dec 2017)

User13710 said:


> Having seen someone faceplant in the road when a dangling sleeve went into the front wheel, I don't think taking jackets off or putting them on without stopping is all that clever.



As I often sneak out in the working day for a bike ride I often get phone calls while riding. My ambition is to become confident enough to get my phone out of my back pocket and answer it whilst riding "no hands"

Unfortunately, around here I'm usually gurning uphill at 6mph or flying downhill at 40mph, neither of which are particularly great for going no hands I suspect


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## I like Skol (24 Dec 2017)

Not read the full thread but..... YES I CAN! Happily remove/refit gloves, answer the phone, scratch my ##### chin, do the Bolt point, fumble in back pocket for a snack or just sit back and soak up the ambiance. If you can do it then you know that actually you can have your hands back on the bars in a split second should the need arise (apart from the two arms stuck in the sleeves of a jacket scenario, which needs to be performed on a quiet, straight road).


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## Ajax Bay (24 Dec 2017)

Lean back and sit 'upright' on the saddle. How much 'core strength' does that need? (Not that core strength (or whatever they now call it) isn't a good thing.) If a rider 'hovers' over the bars 'in case' then that stops them getting their CoG back and makes 'riding no hands' far more difficult. Commitment and confidence is required.
Offset and gyroscopic effects are involved but body position is committed (with apologies to 'eggs and bacon' and the hen and the pig).


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## raleighnut (24 Dec 2017)

[QUOTE 5090552, member: 9609"]I wonder how much it has to do with core strength - when I tried to relearn to ride with no hands I found it a bit precarious and difficult, but as soon as I concentrated on the same muscle groups that I do when doing Pilates, (particularly balancing on the foam roller*) riding with no hands very quickly become simple.

As children we have natural core strength, that is how our bodies are designed to work, but apparently as we get older most of us start to rely on our limbs to do all the work, and that according to my pilates teacher is why so many of our backs fall to bits. I wonder if this is part of the reason riding with no hands was so easy when we were young?


*get good at this and I guess riding with no hands will be easy peasy, it took me about a year before I even discovered the correct muscles to use
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc2byXUOEyc&t=27s
when you get really good you can get all four limbs off the deck at the same time.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if it is due to 'core strength', I feel a lot of it is down to reaction time in my case. I've certainly become 'clumsier' as I've aged.


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## Ian H (24 Dec 2017)

David 'Daedalus' Jones experimentally found that gyroscopist effects are minimal.
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/faculty/gonzalez/Teaching/Phys7221/vol59no9p51_56.pdf


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## Globalti (24 Dec 2017)

OMIGAWD! I started reading that but then the more interesting challenge of oiling the patio door runners was handed to me so I gave up on the article.

In a nutshell, what does it say?


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## Sea of vapours (24 Dec 2017)

Globalti said:


> In a nutshell, what does it say?



That, for a bicycle with someone riding it - as distinct from one rolling along at speed by itself - it's predominantly about trail. More trail (front wheel axle further back in relation to steering axis) produces more stability but a commensurately more difficult bike to steer.


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## Ian H (24 Dec 2017)

Globalti said:


> OMIGAWD! I started reading that but then the more interesting challenge of oiling the patio door runners was handed to me so I gave up on the article.
> 
> In a nutshell, what does it say?


It says that gyroscopic effects are minimal. 

In a decidedly humorous way.


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## Ajax Bay (24 Dec 2017)

Reposting from a post 14 months ago (talking about fork shape):
"A bike designed with neutral steering eg many touring and expedition bikes, should be extremely difficult to ride 'no-hands'. Their offset/head tube angle is deliberately chosen so that steering is unaffected (or at least affected only a small amount and not enough to allow easy/safe 'no-hands'). However a racing bike should be very responsive to leaning and therefore relatively easy to steer no-hands. Also one's weight must be well back, but of course this means one is further away from the 'safety' of grabbing the bars. Like [others] I suspect that the natural reduction in risk tolerance that most experience/exhibit with advancing years means we get caught in the too far forward and on a relaxed geometry bike 'no man's land', and this manifests as loss of ability."


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## Mrs M (24 Dec 2017)

I used to ride my 1980 Halfords Cascade racer, no hands, anytime 
Nowadays, managed to ride my Pashley a few yards, no hands, felt like a triumph!
How times have changed


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## PeteXXX (24 Dec 2017)

I rode down the Brampton Valley Way today, No Hands, eating a banana.
Must confess though, that I didn't actually peel it whilst on the move.....

Sadly, no photo's as proof


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## PeteXXX (24 Dec 2017)

Or eating a hand of bananas?


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## Tim Hall (24 Dec 2017)

PeteXXX said:


> Or eating a hand of bananas?


Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch.
Daylight come and I want to go home.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Dec 2017)

Tried today, still got it and managed about 800 metres before it was time to get the hands back on and go a little faster.


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## Illaveago (24 Dec 2017)

I used to like that sketch of the recording studio.


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## I like Skol (24 Dec 2017)

I can do no hands, track stands and bunny hops. Just need to master the wheelie for the full set (still trying and getting closer all the time).


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## Racing roadkill (27 Dec 2017)

The first time I realised I could ride ‘no handed’ was when a prat in a w**k panzer cut me up, when I was about thirteen years old, and I was wildly gesticulating, and giving him some fine ‘Ja Volls’, and I realised I had both hands off of the bars. I’ve never needed it since, but it’s nice to know, I could if I needed to.


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## Alan O (29 Dec 2017)

Riding with no hands is something I used to do easily when I was young and stupid. I wouldn't dream of even trying it now that I'm old and stupid.


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