# Help me on Hills!



## NeilEB (4 Aug 2011)

So, as you may be aware, I'm new to cycling - at the weekend I easily did an 11 mile round along pretty flat terrain. So far so good.

However since then I've gone for two bike rides after work, and hills just kill me. Adn these don't even have to be that steep, a low but long incline make me knackered.

So, either it's a case of a day at work makes me tired, or my hill technique is rubbish. Frankly it's possibly a bit of both, but seeing as lots of people commute home after a days work, I'm looking for tips on techniques. 

It's easier 'standing' on the pedals, but I can only maintain this for a very short time. If I sit down, I find myself dropping into the lowest gear possible, whihc makes pedalling easier, but means I get nowhere and therefore tire.

There must be something I'm missing?


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## HLaB (4 Aug 2011)

Its sound like you are gearing right (if that's an actual term); I like to alternate, standing up and sitting down to gain the right balance for me that's come with practice, practice will make things easier (or (b) just as hard but you get hills a lot faster  )


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## sabian92 (4 Aug 2011)

I'm in the same position, and any time i go out, I HAVE to go up a hill (a decent sized one at that, at least for a new cyclist). It's horrible cause I'm knackered by the top, I reckon it might just be bad fitness, no strength and no experience, at least for me.


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## al-fresco (4 Aug 2011)

NeilEB said:


> There must be something I'm missing?




Yes - it's practise! (Lots and lots.)


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## NeilEB (4 Aug 2011)

al-fresco said:


> Yes - it's practise! (Lots and lots.)



Meh - I was hoping there was a secret button that I'd missed that ignited the jet engine at the back of the bike.....

I'm seriously rubbish - I went about 3 miles yesterday and had to keep stopping every few minutes to have a rest


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## al-fresco (4 Aug 2011)

sabian92 said:


> I'm in the same position, and any time i go out, I HAVE to go up a hill (a decent sized one at that, at least for a new cyclist). It's horrible cause I'm knackered by the top, I reckon it might just be bad fitness, no strength and no experience, at least for me.




You'll notice that as your fitness improves your recovery time will come down - in fact my old PE teacher used to say that's what fitness was - it's not what you can do but how fast you recover from having done it.


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## NeilEB (4 Aug 2011)

al-fresco said:


> it's not what you can do but how fast you recover from having done it.



I thought that's what being a horny 17 year old boy was?


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## NormanD (4 Aug 2011)

Nope it's pretty much down to you getting yourself fitter, the more you cycle the easier it will become, a day at work and a cycle trip home will pretty much drain anyone new to putting their bodies under more stress than they're used too, that is until their body adapts.

You'll soon adapt and things will become a lot easier, but remember your body also needs to rest, so a few days off the bike will help you along too.


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## TheBoyBilly (4 Aug 2011)

They say hlls never get easier, you just get faster climbing 'em. It is just a matter of getting the miles in and you will soon feel the benefit. Drop down to a low enough gear, then settle in to a nice smooth rythm - sitting is more effective - and set little targets (the next lamp post or parked car for example) then move on to another target. Don't worry too much about speed, it's not a race.


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## lulubel (4 Aug 2011)

It will get easier.

The first cycle ride I went on after not being on a bike since I was a kid, I had to stop twice on the hill from my house up to the main road. (It was about half a mile long.) A few months later, I was thinking: Hill? What hill?

Also, one thing I tend to find myself doing on long hills is changing down to my lowest gear, and then pedalling as fast as I can to try and get to the top as quickly as possible. This is generally a BAD thing to do when you're just starting because it wears you out. If you are doing that, try pedaling a bit slower and see if your breathing gets easier. It will take a bit longer to get to the top of the hill, but it will be a lot less of a struggle. And as your fitness improves, you'll soon find yourself able to start going faster again.


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## Friz (4 Aug 2011)

It just takes time. It sounds like you are doing everything right. And don't, don't, don't be afraid to stop for a minute or two when you feel you need it. There's one hill on my way home that has a moderate incline (6% Grade) for about 3 kms. I used to have to stop twice on it. Only for a minute each time. Then that went down to once. 


Now a few months later I'm up outta the saddle for the whole thing seeing how fast I can do it....



It just takes practice.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

As has been said the only way to get better at hill climbing is to ride more hills. You can improve base fitness my riding on the flat but the power needed to climb comes from climbing. Sorry fella. I wish there was a magic button as well


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## Twigman (4 Aug 2011)

NeilEB said:


> I'm seriously rubbish - I went about 3 miles yesterday and had to keep stopping every few minutes to have a rest



Such a relief to hear that it's not just me.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

NeilEB said:


> Meh - I was hoping there was a secret button that I'd missed that ignited the jet engine at the back of the bike.....
> 
> I'm seriously rubbish - I went about 3 miles yesterday and had to keep stopping every few minutes to have a rest



You need to build base fitness first by the sound of it. Flat rides will help with that (if you have any flat circuits). Failing that just take it steady and listen to your body. You will soon tell the difference between "I'm tired" and "I need a rest". Pay attention to the latter and ignore the former


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## TheSandwichMonster (4 Aug 2011)

I still struggle on hills and I'm sure that I will do for some time to come, but all of the advise above (esp. about practicing!) is good. However, some other possible points to consider in addition:


Do you have clipless pedals, or clips and straps? If so, make sure that you're spinning effectively. Rather than push, push, push, imagine that you're dragging your foot backwards as if you're scraping something from the sole of your shoe.
Shift your weight. By moving forwards and backwards on your saddle, you can engage different muscles and get some respite.
Are you eating/drinking properly at work? Or are you sitting at a desk and forgetting to fuel yourself? Plenty of hydration throughout the day and ensure you get some carbs into you at lunchtime. If your belly is hungry, then so are your legs!
But ultimately, time on the hills converts to time off (up) the hills... I normally commute to work each day - roughly 6 miles each way with a train ride in the middle. Yesterday the weather was nice and I decided to ride the whole (17 miles) back home for the first time. The route is essentially 8 miles up, a bit of flat, then 8 miles down... I knew there was a hill, but from driving it, I was sure that it was pretty long, but quite gradual. 50% of the way up, whilst I tried to stop aspirating my lungs and force some fluid down me, I realised just how wrong I was!

Keep going. Use the gears that feel right for now. Know that it gets better!


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## Klaus (4 Aug 2011)

TheBoyBilly said:


> They say hlls never get easier, you just get faster climbing 'em. It is just a matter of getting the miles in and you will soon feel the benefit. Drop down to a low enough gear, then settle in to a nice smooth rythm - sitting is more effective - and set little targets (the next lamp post or parked car for example) then move on to another target. Don't worry too much about speed, it's not a race.



totally agree - it works.


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## al-fresco (4 Aug 2011)

Oh, I forgot to mention that a friend told me recently that sticking your chest out and pulling your shoulders back helps when climbing. It was news to me but I have tried it and it does seem to help - especially when you're at the point when you're slumped over the bars...


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

al-fresco said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention that a friend told me recently that sticking your chest out and pulling your shoulders back helps when climbing. It was news to me but I have tried it and it does seem to help - especially when you're at the point when you're slumped over the bars...



I'm not sure about sticking your chest out, but moving forward in the saddle and pulling on the bars does help


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## byegad (4 Aug 2011)

I could never stand on the pedals for long. I've always preferred to sit on the saddle and spin a lowish gear. I've never been fast uphills as a consequence. Now I ride recumbents so sitting is the only option and gearing low enough to get me up the hills is essential. 

You don't say how old you are or what your background fitness is like. If you are older, fatter and have previously done little real exercise then what you are describing is lack of basic fitness. If you are younger, lighter and fitter then you simply don't have low enough gearing. I suspect it's the former.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

byegad said:


> I could never stand on the pedals for long. I've always preferred to sit on the saddle and spin a lowish gear. I've never been fast uphills as a consequence. Now I ride recumbents so sitting is the only option and gearing low enough to get me up the hills is essential.
> 
> You don't say how old you are or what your background fitness is like. If you are older, fatter and have previously done little real exercise then what you are describing is lack of basic fitness. If you are younger, lighter and fitter then you simply don't have low enough gearing _*or enough leg strength*_. I suspect it's the former.



FTFY


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## lejogger (4 Aug 2011)

Agree with all the posts, but always important to remember that you have good days and bad days. 

This morning I obviously woke up with my climbing legs on, and the steady drags I have on the way in to work seemed a breeze - I even tackled a couple in the big ring. This certainly isn't an everyday occurence though. Obviously riding them every day is the practice required to make them easier to conquer in the long run, and although they never become easy, you will find that over time you get to the top less out of breath, in a harder gear, and in a faster time. Some days however, I know i've not got the energy to force a large mph all the way up and you have to sit and spin them out.

On steep climbs I like to think that I'm attached to a winch and every pedal revolution is pulling me up to the summit. Seems to help sometimes as from a psychological (cycleogical??!) point of view it helps you remember that it's a certainty that in a number of revolutions you'll be at the top and you'll have the instant relief of the flat, or even a descent if you're lucky, rather than just aimlessly climbing, wondering if it will ever end.


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## briantrumpet (4 Aug 2011)

byegad said:


> I could never stand on the pedals for long. I've always preferred to sit on the saddle and spin a lowish gear. I've never been fast uphills as a consequence.


You can still be quick up hills by sitting most of the time, just standing up for the tough bits. I'll only blast into short sharp rises where I think I can keep enough momentum to get me over the brow or up to a flatter bit. Otherwise I'll quickly get into a low enough gear to sit and spin - when I ride with a friend who prefers to stand and grind, I realise that I'm just as quick, and don't burn up my lungs or drain my legs in the process.


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## NeilEB (4 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the replies all - glad to hear it's nothing I'm doing wrong, it's just that I'm fat and lazy!

Actually, on second thoughts, I think I'd rather it was something I was doing wrong....  

Couple of rest days for me now before I attempt a 15 / 20 miler (flat route) at the weekend.


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## apollo179 (4 Aug 2011)

Hi Neil; What hills have you done. I regularly do A411 barnet lane which has a few hills that are testing for the terminally unfit like me.
When i get to desperation point i have a habit of counting the pedal strokes in the illogical beleif that if i can just make it to 100 that will be the top.
Recovery time is important.


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## Tyres23 (4 Aug 2011)

And one thing it never gets easier well not for me because I have caught this strange bug I was warned about . Once I finally do that big hill I keep doing it faster then I find a bigger one and start again!!!!


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## User16625 (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> As has been said the only way to get better at hill climbing is to ride more hills. You can improve base fitness my riding on the flat but the power needed to climb comes from climbing. Sorry fella. I wish there was a magic button as well




So the power to climb "earned by climbing" im assuming can also be used to increase speed on the flat and downhill. Luckily for me there are good mountain routes nearby and I have a mountain bike aswell as a (crap) road bike.


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## Glover Fan (4 Aug 2011)

Once you are fit enough you'll find that cycling is boring without hills.

Done some hill training on the edge of the cotswolds today and my legs feel good for it.

Practice is the only easy you can improve hill climbing. I'm finding the hills in my area boring note though, they are all pretty steep, but I want some proper long and high hills/mountains to get my legs stuck into. Gonna have to drive over the bridge to south wales I think.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

The Sperminator said:


> So the power to climb "earned by climbing" im assuming can also be used to increase speed on the flat and downhill. Luckily for me there are good mountain routes nearby and I have a mountain bike aswell as a (crap) road bike.


Keeping the pedals turning in a high gear on the flat is a skill set in itself. You may have strength but the constant cadance requires stamina as well. Thus whilst hill climbing may help flat speed only riding fast on the flat will have a significant impact. I THINK!


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## Matthew_T (4 Aug 2011)

NeilEB said:


> It's easier 'standing' on the pedals, but I can only maintain this for a very short time. If I sit down, I find myself dropping into the *lowest gear* possible, which makes *pedalling easier*, but means I get nowhere and therefore tire.
> 
> There must be something I'm missing?



You do have the right techniques but probably not the best method of entering the hill. 

From what cyclists have advised me about riding up a local hill (nicknamed 'The Wall') in a time trial, the best method is to approach the hill as fast as you can, to carry a lot of speed up it. When entering the hill, you need to have your revs going just over that of the gear you're in. 
If the hill increases in steepness the higher up it you go, you will have to change down but try to do this before you are having difficulty with the gear you are currently in. 
Then stay in the easiest gear possible (without your legs going too fast) for the rest of the hill. 

On very steep hills, I find that I cannot decide whether or not to stand or sit. I too find it easier to sit but find that I have to use my whole body to maintain the speed. Standing is good for a boost of power or very very steep parts of a hill. 

I personally cannot decide whether or not to sit or stand so normally keep jumping out of the seat every second.


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> You do have the right techniques but probably not the best method of entering the hill.
> 
> From what cyclists have advised me about riding up a local hill (nicknamed 'The Wall') in a time trial, the best method is to approach the hill as fast as you can, to carry a lot of speed up it. When entering the hill, you need to have your revs going just over that of the gear you're in.
> If the hill increases in steepness the higher up it you go, you will have to change down but try to do this before you are having difficulty with the gear you are currently in.
> ...


That is great technical advice. Anticipation of gear change is a worthy skill indeed


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## Matthew_T (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> That is great technical advice. Anticipation of gear change is a worthy skill indeed



Thank you. It comes from taking part in a lot of time trials and living in the Clwydian Valley (full of 33% hills).


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## AhThisFeckinThing (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> As has been said the only way to get better at hill climbing is to ride more hills. You can improve base fitness my riding on the flat but the power needed to climb comes from climbing. Sorry fella. I wish there was a magic button as well





WHAT!! No magic button, ah this bike thing is doing my head in


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> Thank you. It comes from taking part in a lot of time trials and living in the Clwydian Valley (full of 33% hills).


Is that in North Wales? Makes my local hill look flat


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## Matthew_T (4 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Is that in North Wales? Makes my local hill look flat



I have a hill right besides me called Gwaenesgor (a town on the top). It is the steepest around and I have not yet been able to ride up it. It is only about half a mile long but at some parts it feels like 40% not 30%! 

It definately wears you out. I am aiming to be able to ride all the way up it but some of the more professional and older cyclists I know even got a shock when I told them that!


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## Angelfishsolo (4 Aug 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> I have a hill right besides me called Gwaenesgor (a town on the top). It is the steepest around and I have not yet been able to ride up it. It is only about half a mile long but at some parts it feels like 40% not 30%!
> 
> It definately wears you out. I am aiming to be able to ride all the way up it but some of the more professional and older cyclists I know even got a shock when I told them that!


Have you used a route mapper program to work out the grade of the hill? Sounds like a Grade 1 to me!


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## fossyant (4 Aug 2011)

Matthew_T said:


> You do have the right techniques but probably not the best method of entering the hill.
> 
> From what cyclists have advised me about riding up a local hill (nicknamed 'The Wall') in a time trial, the best method is to approach the hill as fast as you can, to carry a lot of speed up it. When entering the hill, you need to have your revs going just over that of the gear you're in.
> If the hill increases in steepness the higher up it you go, you will have to change down but try to do this before you are having difficulty with the gear you are currently in.
> ...



Matthew - is that the hill you climb from the top of the High Street in Prestatyn - I know it well as we come over regular for most of my life. I've ridden up on 42 x 21 ... flaming hard, but did it, but you get vertigo just walking round the layby for the cars..... 

As for hitting a hill fast, forget that, pace yourself up it, in a way that suits you. The one in Prestatyn, you can't hit it hard, as the bottom is a good climb, till the vertical straight line to the top - it's worse than Mow Cop x 2...

Everyone is different, hence on group rides..."we'll meet at the top" !


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## NeilEB (4 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Hi Neil; What hills have you done. I regularly do A411 barnet lane which has a few hills that are testing for the terminally unfit like me.
> When i get to desperation point i have a habit of counting the pedal strokes in the illogical beleif that if i can just make it to 100 that will be the top.
> Recovery time is important.



My main hill is Green Lanes in Stanmore - tiny little thing, but even walking up it with a pram is a challenge. 
Then there's Stanmore Hill (A4140) which isn't steep but it's very long.


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## Matthew_T (4 Aug 2011)

fossyant said:


> Matthew - is that the hill you climb from the top of the High Street in Prestatyn - I know it well as we come over regular for most of my life. I've ridden up on 42 x 21 ... flaming hard, but did it, but you get vertigo just walking round the layby for the cars.....
> 
> As for hitting a hill fast, forget that, pace yourself up it, in a way that suits you. The one in Prestatyn, you can't hit it hard, as the bottom is a good climb, till the vertical straight line to the top - it's worse than Mow Cop x 2...
> 
> Everyone is different, hence on group rides..."we'll meet at the top" !



Haha! Cannot tell you how many times I have heard people say "We'll meet at the top". 

You will probably need a very long walk at the top to get your breathe back from it! A very long walk indeed.


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## apollo179 (5 Aug 2011)

NeilEB said:


> My main hill is Green Lanes in Stanmore - tiny little thing, but even walking up it with a pram is a challenge.
> Then there's Stanmore Hill (A4140) which isn't steep but it's very long.


Yes i tend to think short steep hills are harder than the longer more shallow hills - on very steep hills i find the pedals just wont go round , particularly having lost a bit of bodyweight.
Its a while since i was on stanmore hill , i always use clamp hill as my doorway into stanmore - i will have to try it. All those roads north off the A404 are hills - when i first started cycling i was cycling home from northwood up the watford road A4125 and just gave up, collapsed. A lycra clad superhero cycling past called out to inquire if i was ok , to which i made the universally recognised sign for having a heart attack but he surprisingly didnt stop. Things do get slightly easier.
Mind you - youve got an expensive new bike so all those hills should be easy for you.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Yes i tend to think short steep hills are harder than the longer more shallow hills - on very steep hills i find the pedals just wont go round , particularly having lost a bit of bodyweight.
> Its a while since i was on stanmore hill , i always use clamp hill as my doorway into stanmore - i will have to try it. All those roads north off the A404 are hills - when i first started cycling i was cycling home from northwood up the watford road A4125 and just gave up, collapsed. A lycra clad superhero cycling past called out to inquire if i was ok , to which i made the universally recognised sign for having a heart attack but he surprisingly didnt stop. Things do get slightly easier.
> Mind you - youve got an expensive new bike so all those hills should be easy for you.



One of the hardest hill son my route is only classed as a Grade 3 and yet it looks flat. It is a (visually) gradual climb of around 3 miles and it is not only physically but mentally demoralising. Sometimes I prefer to know a hill is short and sharp so I can "give it the beans" for a short space of time (or grind away in the granny )


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## Cheddar George (5 Aug 2011)

As i once said to some Belgian bloke " Eddy, don't buy upgrades .... ride up grades !"


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

Cheddar George said:


> As i once said to some Belgian bloke " Eddy, don't buy upgrades .... ride up grades !"


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## Paulus (5 Aug 2011)

A little psychological trick that works is not to look at the top of the hill you are climbing, look at the road 4 or 5 yards in front of you. It does help.


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## apollo179 (5 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> One of the hardest hill son my route is only classed as a Grade 3 and yet it looks flat. It is a (visually) gradual climb of around 3 miles and it is not only physically but mentally demoralising. Sometimes I prefer to know a hill is short and sharp so I can "give it the beans" for a short space of time (or grind away in the granny )



Thing there is that so long as youve got fuel in the tank you should be able to manage the long gradual climb , ive got one climb locally that is only about quarter of a mile long but is so steep and the road so potholed i allways have to get off halfway .


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## lulubel (5 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Thing there is that so long as youve got fuel in the tank you should be able to manage the long gradual climb , ive got one climb locally that is only about quarter of a mile long but is so steep and the road so potholed i allways have to get off halfway .



I prefer long, gradual climbs. I find that as long as I get into a gear that requires an effort level that I can sustain, I'm happy to just keep on plugging away. But we're all different. My OH prefers short, steep hills because they're over quicker.


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## apollo179 (5 Aug 2011)

lulubel said:


> I prefer long, gradual climbs. I find that as long as I get into a gear that requires an effort level that I can sustain, I'm happy to just keep on plugging away. But we're all different. My OH prefers short, steep hills because they're over quicker.


I guess alot has got to do with how you feel physically.
If im feeling ok i welcome the physical challenge of a good hill. On the other side of the coin if im tyred then any hill is torture. Busy roads with passing pedestrians are the worst case scenario because one has to perform , the granny ring really isnt an option.


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## Seigi (5 Aug 2011)

As many have said - Practice makes perfect, there's quite a long hill on my cycle to my partner's house and I've only cycled to hers about 4 times (8 times include there and back) and I found that on the third time the hill started to get easier, and the 4th time easier still, well, not easier but I got up there without being out of breath so much, I remember saying to myself "Last time I was completely buggered at this point, whereas now I feel fine".


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## apollo179 (5 Aug 2011)

Seigi said:


> As many have said - Practice makes perfect, there's quite a long hill on my cycle to my partner's house and I've only cycled to hers about 4 times (8 times include there and back) and I found that on the third time the hill started to get easier, and the 4th time easier still, well, not easier but I got up there without being out of breath so much, I remember saying to myself "Last time I was completely buggered at this point, whereas now I feel fine".



It has been scientifically established that the pschological affect of love can affect perception and just maybe in your case, the climb seems to be getting easier but infact the reality is that this is just a mirage due to the affect of blossoming young love. Wait till you have a fight and see how the climb feels then.


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Thing there is that so long as youve got fuel in the tank you should be able to manage the long gradual climb , ive got one climb locally that is only about quarter of a mile long but is so steep and the road so potholed i allways have to get off halfway .



I used to have an off road hill that always beat me. The first time I managed it I was over the moon


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> It has been scientifically established that the pschological affect of love can affect perception and just maybe in your case, the climb seems to be getting easier but infact the reality is that this is just a mirage due to the affect of blossoming young love. Wait till you have a fight and see how the climb feels then.


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## TheCharityShop (5 Aug 2011)

I would suggest you get off the bike and try and do a few running sessions, maybe 5/6 miles 3 times a week

Also try and do some fast walking/jogging up your nearest hill then get back on your bike and things should be easier


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

TheCharityShop said:


> I would suggest you get off the bike and try and do a few running sessions, maybe 5/6 miles 3 times a week
> 
> Also try and do some fast walking/jogging up your nearest hill then get back on your bike and things should be easier



That does not make sense. The only way to get better at cycling up hills is to cycle up hills.


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## TheCharityShop (5 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> That does not make sense. The only way to get better at cycling up hills is to cycle up hills.




Made sense for me, my fitness increased enormously with an intigrated running regime alongside cycling

Cycling regulary on the flat only takes your fitness/endurance to a certain point, ive always found running to be greatly beneficial when i get back on my bike


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

TheCharityShop said:


> Made sense for me, my fitness increased enormously with an intigrated running regime alongside cycling
> 
> Cycling regulary on the flat only takes your fitness/endurance to a certain point, ive always found running to be greatly beneficial when i get back on my bike



Have you asked the OP about his/her weight, knee condition or any other pertinent question. Running is a much higher impact sport than cycling. I was a track, cross country and road runner from about 10 into my teens so I have a little experience.


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## TheCharityShop (5 Aug 2011)

Dont know anything about the OP maybe he/she could provide abit more background as to their general health

As a rule cycling/swimming is an ideal introduction back to regular activity/fitness and low impact aswell but i gather from the posters enquiry is that there is an assumption that he/she should be flying up hills
that is just never going to happen particulary after a long lay off

But like i said introducing abit of running may help on inclines because fitness does plateau out after a while cycling on the flat, different muscle groups are brought into play when running and ive always found i have much more strength negotiating hills after a few weeks intensive running, coupled with cycling up inclines aswell


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## barongreenback (5 Aug 2011)

Short steep hills are definitely harder for me being a bit of a fatty - much prefer the longer gradual drags where I can get into a gear and spin away.


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## zexel (5 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Have you asked the OP about his/her weight, knee condition or any other pertinent question. Running is a much higher impact sport than cycling. I was a track, cross country and road runner from about 10 into my teens so I have a little experience.



Is there anything you _haven't _got experience in!


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## Angelfishsolo (5 Aug 2011)

zexel said:


> Is there anything you _haven't _got experience in!



Oh many things I assure you. You for one  It's just by the time you reach 40 you have usually tried a few things out.


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

the info that i am getting is that any individuals cycling potential , regardless of personal individualities , is largely regulated by your glycogen energy levels and to best prepare for a days cycling you should topup your on board glycogen before starting, top it up on the way and maintain a steady maintainable cycling effort on route.
Hills are obviously a big effort and will reveal any underlying glycogen deficiency and indeed may act to cause glycogen deficiency.
Its also said that its best to cycle within yourself for the first half hour so you dont exhaust your bodies ability to supply energy from the outset. In light of this statement it may be the case that although you feel like attacking a mountain at the start of your ride - in fact it might be better to schedule it for mid to end time when physiologically your body has reached some kind of handle on things.


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## Glover Fan (7 Aug 2011)

I find doing core exercises helps me a great deal in climbing hills, its not all about the legs. There are some simple exercises you can do at home, but swimming is also good for your core strength, it will also strengthen you arms, you wouldn't believe it, but being able to pull my bike up the hills with my arms helps as much as spinning my legs.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> I find doing core exercises helps me a great deal in climbing hills, its not all about the legs. There are some simple exercises you can do at home, but swimming is also good for your core strength, it will also strengthen you arms, you wouldn't believe it, but being able to pull my bike up the hills with my arms helps as much as spinning my legs.



That I can understand. MTBing is where upper body strength is especially noticeable (or lack of it in my case). I keep wanting to go to the local pool but is has nowhere to secure my bike. Oh the irony of a bike unfriendly sports centre


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## briantrumpet (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> the info that i am getting is that any individuals cycling potential , regardless of personal individualities , is largely regulated by your glycogen energy levels


I'm not sure that's really true - yes, it does have a big bearing on how each individual copes with a ride, but even at pro cycling level you get riders whose differing physiologies give them strengths in different areas: watching the Tour de France, you could see the ones who could climb well but weren't so good at grinding out miles, those who were good at sprinting, etc. At the recreational level the differences will be even more marked. I think the biggest differences will be seen on the hill climbing, both because it tends to push at the boundaries of the body's capabilities, but also because it is so affected by the rider's weight. Even if the rider is fit, carrying just an extra 10kg of weight will cause a much bigger drain on the rider's system: even if they can ride at the same speed up the hill as the lighter rider, they must be using using more power to do so.

Having said that, yes, if you ain't got the energy, you ain't gonna get up that hill!


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

briantrumpet said:


> I'm not sure that's really true - yes, it does have a big bearing on how each individual copes with a ride, but even at pro cycling level you get riders whose differing physiologies give them strengths in different areas: watching the Tour de France, you could see the ones who could climb well but weren't so good at grinding out miles, those who were good at sprinting, etc. At the recreational level the differences will be even more marked. I think the biggest differences will be seen on the hill climbing, both because it tends to push at the boundaries of the body's capabilities, but also because it is so affected by the rider's weight. Even if the rider is fit, carrying just an extra 10kg of weight will cause a much bigger drain on the rider's system: even if they can ride at the same speed up the hill as the lighter rider, they must be using using more power to do so.
> 
> Having said that, yes, if you ain't got the energy, you ain't gonna get up that hill!



Tell me about it I have dropped from 18 to 15 stone and notice my hill climbing has improved. However even if I can keep pace with a racing snake on the flat I am left for dead on the hills.


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## briantrumpet (7 Aug 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> I find doing core exercises helps me a great deal in climbing hills, its not all about the legs. There are some simple exercises you can do at home, but swimming is also good for your core strength, it will also strengthen you arms, you wouldn't believe it, but being able to pull my bike up the hills with my arms helps as much as spinning my legs.


I too do lots of swimming, but I think the biggest advantage of it is the improvement in heart & lung function. As for the upper body/arms thing, I don't use much upper body strength even on the steepest hills - I guess we've all got different techniques. You've only got to look at the Schlecks' upper body size to see that they are not relying on muscle strength there to make the difference. Indeed they will be deliberately aiming to keep their top-half musculature to the bare minimum to keep their weight as low as possible: Andy weighs about 68kg for 6'1"


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## teletext45 (7 Aug 2011)

I sufferd the same problems with hills. So i purposely plan hilly routes to get training in. Short climbs sprint up them out of your saddle like you mentioned be each one try and push a little longer. 

Each time i manage to sprint a little bit further and my technique is improving, for longer drags at the moment i tend to pick a nice high gear and literally plod up the hill maybe get out of the saddle towards the peak. 

Hope that helps a little bit ish 

andy


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## Glover Fan (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Its also said that its best to cycle within yourself for the first half hour so you dont exhaust your bodies ability to supply energy from the outset. In light of this statement it may be the case that although you feel like attacking a mountain at the start of your ride - in fact it might be better to schedule it for mid to end time when physiologically your body has reached some kind of handle on things.


This is good info. I wouldn't recommend tackling a massive hill within the first mile, however I know some people due to the geography that is nigh on impossible!

Here is the elevation profile for my hill training session as you can see there are four sharp climbs in it, although none of them are particularly high, I think the most I climb on one hill is about +-600ft, but they are all in quite quick succession and all at least 10%, with the last being a long drag. It really does take it out of your legs, but getting a swift 13 miles before makes sure that my legs and heart are fully up to temp, much like a car so that I am physically feeling good.

That said the last 13 miles are literally just a spin session just trying to get home!!


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

teletext45 said:


> I sufferd the same problems with hills. So i purposely plan hilly routes to get training in. Short climbs sprint up them out of your saddle like you mentioned be each one try and push a little longer.
> 
> Each time i manage to sprint a little bit further and my technique is improving, for longer drags at the moment i tend to pick a nice high gear and literally plod up the hill maybe get out of the saddle towards the peak.
> 
> ...



Ditto - As I have said before - The only way to get better at riding up hills is to ride up more hills.


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

briantrumpet said:


> I'm not sure that's really true - yes, it does have a big bearing on how each individual copes with a ride, but even at pro cycling level you get riders whose differing physiologies give them strengths in different areas: watching the Tour de France, you could see the ones who could climb well but weren't so good at grinding out miles, those who were good at sprinting, etc. At the recreational level the differences will be even more marked. I think the biggest differences will be seen on the hill climbing, both because it tends to push at the boundaries of the body's capabilities, but also because it is so affected by the rider's weight. Even if the rider is fit, carrying just an extra 10kg of weight will cause a much bigger drain on the rider's system: even if they can ride at the same speed up the hill as the lighter rider, they must be using using more power to do so.
> 
> Having said that, yes, if you ain't got the energy, you ain't gonna get up that hill!



Brian. 
I said "regardless of personal individualities" This means - ignoring "differing physiologies", "strengths in different areas", "rider's weight" etc etc .
Obviously there are other factors that affect an individuals cycling.


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> That I can understand. MTBing is where upper body strength is especially noticeable (or lack of it in my case). I keep wanting to go to the local pool but is has nowhere to secure my bike. Oh the irony of a bike unfriendly sports centre



Thats one of the drawbacks of having an expensive bike.
Surely you can just chain it to a railing cant you ? or a tree ?


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Thats one of the drawbacks of having an expensive bike.
> Surely you can just chain it to a railing cant you ? or a tree ?



The closest place to chain it is about 200 yards away on a fence that edges a car park and is right next to a footpath. Little CCTV coverage and too much chance of the bike being damaged or stolen.


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> This is good info. I wouldn't recommend tackling a massive hill within the first mile, however I know some people due to the geography that is nigh on impossible!
> 
> Here is the elevation profile for my hill training session as you can see there are four sharp climbs in it, although none of them are particularly high, I think the most I climb on one hill is about +-600ft, but they are all in quite quick succession and all at least 10%, with the last being a long drag. It really does take it out of your legs, but getting a swift 13 miles before makes sure that my legs and heart are fully up to temp, much like a car so that I am physically feeling good.
> 
> That said the last 13 miles are literally just a spin session just trying to get home!!



4 climbs like that look quite testing. I did a 500ft climb last tuesday and am still feeling it. 
Keep those glycogen levels up !


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> The closest place to chain it is about 200 yards away on a fence that edges a car park and is right next to a footpath. Little CCTV coverage and too much chance of the bike being damaged or stolen.



That (in all seriousness) is a real disadvantage to owning an expensive bike. The fear of leaving it incase it gets stolen. You could do with a bso that you can use for appropriate journeys.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> That (in all seriousness) is a real disadvantage to owning an expensive bike. The fear of leaving it incase it gets stolen. You could do with a bso that you can use for appropriate journeys.



Or I could just walk A BSO would pi$$ me off so much I would be wound up by the time I reached the pool


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Or I could just walk A BSO would pi$ me off so much I would be wound up by the time I reached the pool



Shame - i was looking forward to the topic - "Please help AFS choose a Bso" 
Guess it was never going to happen.


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Shame - i was looking forward to the topic - "Please help AFS choose a Bso"
> Guess it was never going to happen.



Never  Sorry to disappoint you.


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## briantrumpet (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Brian.
> I said "regardless of personal individualities" This means - ignoring "differing physiologies", "strengths in different areas", "rider's weight" etc etc .
> Obviously there are other factors that affect an individuals cycling.


Ah, sorry. I misunderstood what you meant - I wasn't reading "regardless" as "disregarding" (I think there's a difference, but I may be wrong), so I thought you were meaning that personal individualities made no difference, but that glycogen levels did. Anyway, I get what you mean now.


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## apollo179 (7 Aug 2011)

briantrumpet said:


> Ah, sorry. I misunderstood what you meant - I wasn't reading "regardless" as "disregarding" (I think there's a difference, but I may be wrong), so I thought you were meaning that personal individualities made no difference, but that glycogen levels did. Anyway, I get what you mean now.



I got most of it from you anyway so we should be in agreement.
thanks.


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## Cosmicned (7 Aug 2011)

Went out for a fairly swift 10 miles this morning- sometimes I fly up the 330ft climb locally over about 1.5 miles- not so this morning- made even worse when a fully SKY logo'd muscle bound MAMIL breezed past me barely breaking sweat- strangely I found I suddely had more energy trying to stay on his tail - and indeed maybe I had the better descent technique as I caught him up easily going down the hill hitting 37mph- or maybe I'm just dumber!? ;-) we are indeed all different... But a little motivation goes a long way...


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## briantrumpet (7 Aug 2011)

apollo179 said:


> I got most of it from you anyway so we should be in agreement.


That's why I was slightly confused - though perhaps we should have let it run another twenty pages before we realised we agreed.


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## hotmetal (7 Aug 2011)

What is a MAMIL? I'm guessing the phrase 'man in lycra' is the last bit? I'm curious now.

Hydration levels as well as food make a big difference to me. If I've been to the pub the day before then I have a terrible day on the bike.

It's not very hilly on Windsor but Priest and Crimp hills are challenging. I usually just spin until I'm in bottom gear then just look 20 yards ahead, get my weight forward and think of England. Usually I get to the top without standing on the pedals. To improve you just have to push yourself a little harder each time and keep positive.

Sometimes I cheat and take the motorbike!


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## Angelfishsolo (7 Aug 2011)

hotmetal said:


> What is a MAMIL? I'm guessing the phrase 'man in lycra' is the last bit? I'm curious now.
> 
> Hydration levels as well as food make a big difference to me. If I've been to the pub the day before then I have a terrible day on the bike.
> 
> ...


MAMIL - Middle Aged Man In Lycra
MABIL - Middle Aged Babe In Lycra


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## Ian 74 (13 Aug 2011)

Learn to love the hills.

I attempted the Cumberland Challenge in 2009 and faced my first real hill Harside, all other things that I thought were hills turned out to be just bumbs in the road. I set out to do the 112 mile route sweated my way up Hartside painfully slow in the granny ring, I was amazed as the club riders zoomed past me with nonchalant ease. Although I thought I was going to have a heart attack I was filled with a wondrous sense of achievement upon reaching the top. 

Reaching the half way point 5 hours later I called it a day (I still got a lovely certificate) feeling like an abject failure. I approached the ride in a cavalier fashion and forgot to do the training that I promised myself. Up to that point I was commuting 11 miles over bumpy roads.

Anyway my point is I had the chance to ride over Hartside again this month and spun up without the feeling of imminent cardiac failure, I'll go so far as to say I really enjoyed conquering the hill. So that was 2 years later and lots of mountain passes, once you get to the top of your first big hill you realise that anything is possible. If you have to put your foot down it just gives you greater incentive to beat the hill next time.

I love hills me...


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