# Fell off



## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

If anyones been following my other threads, im very new to the sport just picked up my first road bike.

Today first time riding it it felt like i had no grip at all on the rear wheel, every now and then i could feel i little slip.

Coming round a corner and the back wheel went, bit of a bruised wrist but ok.
There was another rider at the side of the road that had done the same thing.

My bikes fitted with these...



They say max inflate 85psi which is what they are, would i benefit from maybe going 75psi?


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## vickster (23 Feb 2019)

Yes, don't go up to the top of the range, which is...? How heavy are you?

This is a used bike, in what condition are the tyres? Maybe consider some new ones, although it's warm for Feb, the roads are greasy still and of course gravelly/potholey. That said Randonneurs aren't racy tyres, more for touring, and they're on the chunkier side for a roadbike at 28mm


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## 13 rider (23 Feb 2019)

If another rider was down there was probably something in the road diesel etc . It will take time to build confidence just take it steady for now . Hopefully your heal quickly .I wouldn't rush to change anything maybe drop the pressure a fraction just build your your riding experience


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## Sharky (23 Feb 2019)

You say the same thing had happened to another rider, so my guess something on the surface of the road caused your fall and not the tyres.

I've had rear slippage when braking hard or on a slippery man hole cover or when out of the saddle climbing a steep hill, but usually fairly easy to bring under control. Front wheel slippage, though can be lethal especially when combined with black ice.


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## the snail (23 Feb 2019)

If they're brand new tyres then there may be some mould release agent left on the tyres, so best to take it easy till the tyres have worn in a bit.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

The whole ride the rear wheel felt slippery, the tyres look good condition too.
I will try dropping the pressure a little, im 180lbs

I dont think it was anything particular in the road as like i say the whole ride felt slippery.

I noticed the other guy had very thick tyres on poss 38c


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> Yes, don't go up to the top of the range, which is...? How heavy are you?
> 
> This is a used bike, in what condition are the tyres? Maybe consider some new ones, although it's warm for Feb, the roads are greasy still and of course gravelly/potholey. That said Randonneurs aren't racy tyres, more for touring, and they're on the chunkier side for a roadbike at 28mm



It dosnt say a range just max inflate 85psi or 6 bar


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Ive got a feeling the previous owner came off too and some damage to the right hood, now the left ones damaged too haha


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## vickster (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> It dosnt say a range just max inflate 85psi or 6 bar


Odd there's usually a range


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## EltonFrog (23 Feb 2019)

Hope you heal quickly, probably diesel or grit as someone has already said. 

There a two types of cyclists, those who have fallen off their bikes and those who haven’t fallen off yet.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

I might stick the 32c duranos from my hybrid on untill the roads are dryer.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

CarlP said:


> Hope you heal quickly, probably diesel or grit as someone has already said.
> 
> There a two types of cyclists, those who have fallen off their bikes and those who haven’t fallen off yet.



Luckily not hurt at all really little bruise on my wrist, could have been alot worse.
I said exactly that to the guy at the side of the road, at least i got it out the way now!


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Its just a thought but the tyres are installed with the tred running the right way arnt they?


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## 13 rider (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Its just a thought but the tyres are installed with the tred running the right way arnt they?
> View attachment 454125


There should be a directional arrows on the side wall if wheels have a directional thread


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## SkipdiverJohn (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> My bikes fitted with these...
> View attachment 454113
> 
> They say max inflate 85psi which is what they are, would i benefit from maybe going 75psi?



Don't just set pressures randomly. There's a very useful tyre pressure graph out there on the internet, the result of considerable testing, which gives the optimum pressure according to the tyre width and the imposed loading on each wheel. Flat bar bikes are normally assumed to have a 40/60 front/rear weight distribution, drop bars more like 45/55. The correct pressures are worked out from the weight per wheel of the proportion of the rider's weight, plus half the weight of the bike itself.


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## Edwardoka (23 Feb 2019)

There's an old saying, cornering confidence increases steadily until it drops sharply. Hopefully yours comes back quickly!

While it's likely just a greasy road surface, (as based on the fact that someone else came off there) check your hub for movement and try loosening and re-tightening your quick release, any play will translate into a loss of cornering stability.


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## fossyant (23 Feb 2019)

Road surface issues, and your tyres aren't very grippy - cheap rubber I'm afraid. If new, as well, many manufacturers have mold release agents in the tyres - Michelin certainly did.. so you take it easy at first. 

I suspect there was diesel on the road.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Its probably a little bit of poor road surface, poor riding ability but also compering these tyres to my durano tyres the durano feel more grippy even though they are smoother

Yes i did suspect they were cheap, been out on worse conditions and never felt like i was riding on ice like today


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Ok so im going to get some new tyres for this bike, any recommendation?

I have the durano on my hybrid in 32c

Same tyres in 25c?


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## fossyant (23 Feb 2019)

Durano Plus Performance are tough. Had 23c on my commuter.

I'd also say Michelin Pro, or Conti 4 Season, but they are big money. PS less 'tread' is more on a road bike.


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## vickster (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Ok so im going to get some new tyres for this bike, any recommendation?
> 
> I have the durano on my hybrid in 32c
> 
> Same tyres in 25c?


If you're happy with them yes. The conti or Michelin are around £30 a tyre so depends on budget

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-parts/bike-tyres/schwalbe-durano-folding-raceguard-700c

Or for £15
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Vittoria-Rubino-G-Isotech-Rigid-Road-Tyre_127596.htm


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Yeah 30 is a bit much really, spent a small fortune on bits and bobs recently!


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## vickster (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Yeah 30 is a bit much really, spent a small fortune on bits and bobs recently!


I've added a link, pair of tyres £30


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## bikingdad90 (23 Feb 2019)

Sharky said:


> Front wheel slippage, though can be lethal especially when combined with black ice.



I can attest to that. Put a big hole in the knee of my bib tights when I went right and the bike went left about 20 metres apart. Apart from some bruising I was ok as I slid on the ice instead of getting road rash.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Its just a thought but the tyres are installed with the tred running the right way arnt they?
> View attachment 454125



Yes and it should be the opposite way on the rear.

Touring tyres tend to be hard wearing and so use hard rubbers in the centre and a stiffer carcass. A consequence is that the tyres do not grip the road quite so well. Soft rubbers and more flexible carcass tyres have better friction but wear much quicker.

You are a similar weight to me and I used to run 28mm. Try 65 psi front and 75 psi rear. If that feels a little squidgy then add another 5psi and see how that goes. Track pump gauges can vary so your 65 psi may be the equivalent of 60 psi on mine.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> I've added a link, pair of tyres £30



Ok thanks, which are better them or the Durano?
As the ones in the link are vittoria and so are the ones currently on my bike, after today i dont rate them lol


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Yes and it should be the opposite way on the rear.



Thanks for that.
This is the rear tyre though!


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Thanks for that.
> This is the rear tyre though!



On the rear the narrow point if the slit should face forward , and on front face backward. So still correct.

Tread on bikes helps with gravelly surfaces. On a road no tread designs have more rubber in contact with the road.

The duranos have better grip than those and should be a little quicker.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Yeah, think i will spend the extra and get the duranos, no complaints on them from my previous 3 rides using them.


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## fossyant (23 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Thanks for that.
> This is the rear tyre though!



Tread pattern doesn't really matter on a road bike - tread isn't needed, unless going off road.


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## CXRAndy (23 Feb 2019)

If the roads were damp this morning, which overcast was in our region. Everything was wet till lunchtime. The tyres look very new, a period of bedding in will be required, 50 miles is more than enough. I tend not to corner quickly in early spring, due to slippery damp patches

Fortunately hopefully nothing worse than a bruised wrist


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Yes!
It was very foggy, misty so lots of due on the ground
Where i came off was under a bridge where i guess takes longer to warm up/dry off.
About 1 mile before i put my winter gloves back on as felt a bit chilly, think they really saved me from a nasty grase.

Also lucky the car behind me wasnt too close or i might have been squished


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## Jenkins (23 Feb 2019)

I've had two offs on damp roads in two months - both on the same bike once at around 20mph, the other at under 15mph. Someone I know through work also came off his bike on Wednesday at the exact same place I had the second off on Saturday. The common cause was damp roads. We've had very little proper rain here recently so any oil, diesel, etc doesn't get washed away and then becomes a dangerously slippery combination when it gets damp.


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## gazza81 (23 Feb 2019)

Yeah, roads are pretty poor surfaces too round here, lots of pot holes to avoid etc.

In fact for that exact reason i was thinking i wont go down to 25c but thinking of going with 28c hoping it will help a little as a more all weather all rounder really.

I think if it looks wet or icy in the future i will take the hybrid on 32c tyres instead


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## CXRAndy (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Yeah, roads are pretty poor surfaces too round here, lots of pot holes to avoid etc.
> 
> In fact for that exact reason i was thinking i wont go down to 25c but thinking of going with 28c hoping it will help a little as a more all weather all rounder really.
> 
> I think if it looks wet or icy in the future i will take the hybrid on 32c tyres instead



One of the best all round tyres for comfort/speed is the Schwalbe G One in 35mm or 38mm. 

I use these on my wheels for sportives (38mm) really comfortable, grip well and fast for such a big tyre. Ive ridden at 19mph ave for 70miles with these on a club run-so not a slow tyre.

There is a faster road version called the G One Speed, smoother tread so not designed for trails etc. 

These are performance tyres, not designed to last years


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## Cycleops (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> In fact for that exact reason i was thinking i wont go down to 25c but thinking of going with 28c hoping it will help a little as a more all weather all rounder really.
> 
> I think if it looks wet or icy in the future i will take the hybrid on 32c tyres instead



You should be okay but just check you have sufficient frame clearance for the 28c tyres.
There is so little rubber in contact with the road that the difference between the 32 and 28 will be minimal. Compound used will have more bearing on grip.
I wish you better luck this time but if the surface is icy or greasy or both you're on a hiding to nothing!


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## Mugshot (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> poor riding ability


Try not to think like that, some tyres just aren't up to the job and can feel skittish even when you're going in a straight line, catch an anomaly on the road with them and there's only one way you're going, no matter how good or experienced a rider you are


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## gazza81 (24 Feb 2019)

Cycleops said:


> You should be okay but just check you have sufficient frame clearance for the 28c tyres.
> There is so little rubber in contact with the road that the difference between the 32 and 28 will be minimal. Compound used will have more bearing on grip.
> I wish you better luck this time but if the surface is icy or greasy or both you're on a hiding to nothing!



Yeah they take up to 32s
28s on there at the moment


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## Banjo (24 Feb 2019)

Vittoria Ranndoneurs have a layer of red rubber under the tread layer thy are worn out when you see bits of red showing. I use them on my utility bike and yes they are not light or fast but I haven't noticed any lack of grip.

Strongly susPect the Road was contaminated with diesel oil or something. 

I can recommend Michelin Edurance 4 which I have on my road bike .I run them on 80 back 75 front (28c) They are a good mix of fast and reliable.

Your not a real cyclist until you have had an off. :-)


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## vickster (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Yeah they take up to 32s
> 28s on there at the moment


Can you get mudguards on though?


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## gazza81 (24 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> Can you get mudguards on though?



No idea haha


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## vickster (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> No idea haha


If you're riding in all weathers, you should try


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## gazza81 (24 Feb 2019)

Yeah i was thinking ill get some, might just use the hybrid in rough weather though


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> I think if it looks wet or icy in the future i will take the hybrid on 32c tyres instead



I'm more bothered about braking distances when it's wet than I'm bothered about the water on the road itself. I ride slower, corner slower, and slow down earlier and more gently than in the dry. I don't care about the reduced average speed. I do care about coming off!
When it's below zero, I simply do not ride a bike on the road. I also generally avoid those roads that are shaded by trees when the previous night was sub-zero, even if the temp out in the sun is above freezing. The shaded areas harbour patches of black ice which are treacherous and you will not know they are there until you come off. I saw two cyclists on such a road a year ago, riding sedately along side by side having a chat. Suddenly, one of them was off his bike and on his arse in the middle of the road, like an unseen hand had jerked his bike out from under him. His mate, who was riding only a couple of feet away, was completely unaffected. Neither of them were doing anything silly, just pootling along. The ambient temp was 3 or 4 degrees but there had been a frost the night before and that section of road was shaded from the sun. When I got to that point (I was driving not riding) I couldn't see anything different about the bit of the road surface where the rider had come off, it looked completely normal and just the same as the bit where the other rider had stayed upright.


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## cyberknight (24 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> Yes, don't go up to the top of the range, which is...? How heavy are you?
> 
> This is a used bike, in what condition are the tyres? Maybe consider some new ones, although it's warm for Feb, the roads are greasy still and of course gravelly/potholey. That said Randonneurs aren't racy tyres, more for touring, and they're on the chunkier side for a roadbike at 28mm


 I nearly fell off twice today on tyres that are normally ok,like you said the roads are slippy in places


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## gazza81 (24 Feb 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm more bothered about braking distances when it's wet than I'm bothered about the water on the road itself. I ride slower, corner slower, and slow down earlier and more gently than in the dry. I don't care about the reduced average speed. I do care about coming off!



Yes something i need to learn to do, im too concerned about my avg speed haha


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## Banjo (24 Feb 2019)

Forget speed for now just enjoy riding the bike.By the pic of your tyres they will last you years if you want them to .I got about 3000 miles out of my last set of randonneurs never once lost grip and as far as I remember no unplanned deflations or fairy visits.(must not say the P word.)
A lighter slicker set will improve your enjoyment of the ride but what you already have are good work horses.


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## buzzy-beans (24 Feb 2019)

Apart from what everything already said about road surfaces, tyres and heaven knows what else, I honestly do believe that a lot of the problems experienced by so many cyclists are associated with their ability or inability to relax.

In all the sports I have competed in throughout my active life, I have always found by a very significant margin that if your are not relaxed then it is highly unlikely that you will be able to perform to your best ability. 
Be that in golf where most peoples hands hold a club far too tightly which in turn tightens up the muscles throughout their body, or driving a car when in areas of extreme concentration in fast driving or hazardous conditions the vast majority of people simply hold the steering wheel far, far too tightly, or skiing when they don't keep their legs and torso loose and finally in cycling, as in the case in question when they tend to go "oh sh*t" and their body simply locks up solid.

There are tests and exercises anyone can do to increase their levels of balance and as you get more accustomed to these tests they all become easier and as a direct result the entire body becomes far more relaxed the result of which is that a more relaxed body is far more likely to react far, far faster. As a direct result of these exercises it is quite amazing how much better your overall levels of performance will very significantly improve.


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## gazza81 (25 Feb 2019)

Banjo said:


> Forget speed for now just enjoy riding the bike.By the pic of your tyres they will last you years if you want them to .I got about 3000 miles out of my last set of randonneurs never once lost grip and as far as I remember no unplanned deflations or fairy visits.(must not say the P word.)
> A lighter slicker set will improve your enjoyment of the ride but what you already have are good work horses.



What PSI do you run them at?


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## Banjo (25 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> What PSI do you run them at?


About 65. 70.


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## Threevok (25 Feb 2019)

I just bought some new cycle shorts.

So expect me to fall off anytime in the next week


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Feb 2019)

As long as the shorts do not fall down as well.


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## gazza81 (25 Feb 2019)

Banjo said:


> About 65. 70.



Had mine at 80, poss why they felt dodgy


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## CXRAndy (25 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Had mine at 80, poss why they felt dodgy




I think 70 is recommended max pressure for those tyres.


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## gazza81 (25 Feb 2019)

Just ordered duranos, in 28c anyway 
I have more confidence in them


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## I like Skol (25 Feb 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Just ordered duranos, in 28c anyway
> I have more confidence in them


Bit late now but, i use Vittoria Randoneurs on two of my bikes over a couple of 1000 miles and don't have any problems with all-year round, all-weather commuting.


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## buzzy-beans (26 Feb 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Bit late now but, i use Vittoria Randoneurs on two of my bikes over a couple of 1000 miles and don't have any problems with all-year round, all-weather commuting.



But no doubt you have good balance? I have ridden my bikes in all weathers and in almost 60 years of cycling with many of them being competitive, I can honestly say I have never fallen off............. yet


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## gazza81 (27 Feb 2019)

Ive just set the pressure to 70, think ill see how they go this weekend.
Looking online the reviews aren't great for these tyres though but im trying to save £45 as ive reserved some 28c duranos to collect from halfords. 

Was also thinking i could put the 32c duranos from my hybrid on.

Hopefully the drop in pressure wont make them feel like they are going to slip at every pedal stroke like last weekend!


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## vickster (27 Feb 2019)

If it’s a roadbike, will 32s actually fit safely between the stays / brakes?


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## gazza81 (27 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> If it’s a roadbike, will 32s actually fit safely between the stays / brakes?



Yeah, well it says so on the decathlon webside

Its a btwin 520


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Feb 2019)

32s are great, just like road bikes used to be before the silly narrow tyre fetish started in the 90's


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## gazza81 (27 Feb 2019)

Yeah im just being lazy and cant be bothered to take off the hybrid and put on the road bike haha

Was a nice smooth ride with the 32s


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

Well, them tyres are going in the bin.

Utter sh1te.
Set psi to 70 and still feel like the back wheel is all over the place slipping and sliding.
Cornering was scarey.
Even on a straight, small bumps in the road and it felt like the rear wheel was skipping sideways 
Bin bound!


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

Cornering is one thing, but if you are even having problems on small bumps on straight roads then I think you need to stop and think about what is _really_ going on.

I have ridden tens of thousands of miles on numerous different road bikes with probably 10+ different types of tyre, with sizes from 23 to 35, PSI from 50 -110, tread/no tread, road surface from perfect to gravel-covered/potholed/bumpy nightmare, gradients to +/- 25%, speeds up to 55 mph, dry/dusty/leaf-covered/wet and ...

... I have never had as many problems as you are having. I wouldn't blame the tyres!


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

Just so you know I am not picking on you ... I cycled round some bends on local descents recently at 30+ mph and felt perfectly safe. I remember almost crashing at 20 mph on those bends when I first rode them 30 years ago! It was just the way I was handling the bike then before I learned how to do it properly.


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

Some of the roads are terrible round here.

I cant see what else i can do?
I pedal, they feel like they slip.
It was slightly wet today but i donno, just feels like they really are bad.

I mean, obviously im new to it and am a little twitchy changing grip etc, lost confidence from coming off last week.

But at speed say 20mph they just feel like they are gonna go on me, probably is partly me being new and unsteady.

Well they are going either way, gonna put the 32s on, as i had no problems with them.
Atleast untill i gain experience and get confident again.


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

And manhole covers! Christ they are deadly!


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

Thing is though, i had a road bike a couple yrs ago and used to go out at silly oclock like 6/630 am, i remember it being frosty and never once felt like i do on this bike.
Granted i only done about 2 or 3 20mile rides and packed it in


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

The one time I had problems on a straight road was in Spain. Our ride leader warned us that roads in Spain can get incredibly slippery in light rain because there isn't usually enough to wash away the oily residue which gets on the roads over time. When rain finally falls, the slippery stuff floats to the surface. We got some very light drizzle and he immediately led us to a cafe where we stayed for an hour until the drizzle stopped. I thought the whole thing was laughable and that he was being ridiculously overcautious. When we set off again I was a bit slow getting back on my bike and the others got a gap on me. I stood up to sprint after them on suffered a massive rear wheel slide which almost threw me off the bike. Lesson learned!



gazza81 said:


> And manhole covers! Christ they are deadly!


Any wet metal - yes! Tramlines and railway lines can be lethal. Also painted lines on roads when wet.


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

Yeah,what you describe there, the dt3anding rear wheel slipping happens to me quite a lot.
There is alot of muck and hourse poo etc in the roads round here, all country lanes.
I think you are right though, probably me and lack of experience mixed with crappy roads.
Im just gonna take it slow for now


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Yeah,what you describe there, the dt3anding rear wheel slipping happens to me quite a lot.
> There is alot of muck and hourse poo etc in the roads round here, all country lanes.
> I think you are right though, probably me and lack of experience mixed with crappy roads.
> Im just gonna take it slow for now


I used to do the 'Manchester 100' every year out into the lanes of Cheshire. One part of the route involved a RH bend just before a farm. I went round that bend once and found the road covered in slurry, which had brought down several of the riders ahead of me.


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

And as for the time that I (*** accidentally! ) tried to insert my head up the rectum of a large horse ... 







*** I went into a blind bend too fast and encountered a couple of horses being ridden down the lane directly in front of me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (2 Mar 2019)

I've got a right motley collection of tyres on a motley collection of bikes. I run quality Schwalbes on the bikes I ride further on for puncture reasons, but all the ratty old tyres that came with secondhand bikes I've bought get kept and used for local rides on hack bikes, so long as they will hold air and don't look like are about to explode. I don't care how old they are or how shabby they look, they will still get ridden until they wear out. AFAIK, my oldest ones are a pair of Semperit 26" x 1 3/8" supplied with a Puch roadster that was new in 1974, so 45 years old! Despite my variable and mediocre rubber, I don't experience any alarming handling incidents, but I am very wary of slippery surfaces like manhole covers and road marking paint. I always try to avoid hard cornering, acceleration, or braking when either wheel is in contact with any of these things. I never accelerate standing out of the saddle either, because I reckon having the bike moving from side to side as you apply a lot of force is the best way to provoke an "off" if the surface underneath you is slippery or covered with loose chippings etc.


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

Well, 32s dont fit! The website is lying! The lip of the tyre wont fit passed either side of the valve!

Edit, ive just squeezed it on, just silipped past it. Looks ok


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## buzzy-beans (2 Mar 2019)

I recon that there might be something wrong with either the wheels or the frame of @gazza81 's bike as I have never ever experienced anything like what gazza is experiencing.


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## Old jon (2 Mar 2019)

^^^

Same thoughts here.


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## gazza81 (2 Mar 2019)

buzzy-beans said:


> I recon that there might be something wrong with either the wheels or the frame of @gazza81 's bike as I have never ever experienced anything like what gazza is experiencing.



Hope not!
Well ive squeezed the 32s on now so guess ill have to wait untill next week to see how they feel.

Ive had 4 bikes in the last 4 yrs, this is the only one that feels like this but at the same time, ive only just moved to the area and country lanes before i was in london where the roads are alot cleaner and i never really got into it, couple rides here and there then sold my bike haha


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## ColinJ (2 Mar 2019)

gazza81 said:


> Well, 32s dont fit! The website is lying! The lip of the tyre wont fit passed either side of the valve!
> 
> Edit, ive just squeezed it on, just silipped past it. Looks ok


'Lip' = 'bead'.

The tube is a bit awkward to squeeze the beads past at the base of the valve. I always push the valve in a bit to get the base of it out of the way while getting the last sections of bead hooked in.

You need to be careful not to pinch tubes between rim and bead when putting tyres on. It is very easy to do and the tube may be damaged and fail later, or even explode when you first inflate it. You will not explode too many before you learn how to avoid doing that - it is bloody scary!


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