# Should I refurb or send for scrap metal?



## newts (12 Jul 2022)

FIL has passed his old bike onto me & i'm thinking of cleaning up/rebuilding as as shopper/pub bike. 
Wheels need rebuilding, many spokes are rusted & there's pitting in the rust on the frame. 
Is it too far gone to be an economical rebuild?


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## MontyVeda (12 Jul 2022)

why not do both... refurbish it then scrap it


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## classic33 (12 Jul 2022)

Rebuild, it doesn't look too bad.


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## wafter (12 Jul 2022)

Rust on the frame is going to be your biggest enemy; it the frame's sound it'd do as a hack although you'll doubtless not get back the outlay on bits.. Of course that's not always what it's about though


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

Excuse my ignorance, this is my first time with technology from this era. 
The rims appear to be stainless steel as they are still shiny after 60 years?


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## Randomnerd (12 Jul 2022)

I wouldn't bother.


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## midlife (12 Jul 2022)

Frame looks quite old with the mudguard braze ons, is that a braze on for a sturmey wheel for a sturmey rear wheel?


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## ColinJ (12 Jul 2022)

Horizontal dropouts... _*PERFECT *_for a very cheap singlespeed shopping/pub bike conversion!


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

midlife said:


> Frame looks quite old with the mudguard braze ons, is that a braze on for a sturmey wheel for a sturmey rear wheel?



FIL bought the bike c1960 secondhand, it had original been a single speed with flip flop hub. He had it converted somehow to 5 speed/single speed flip flop. 
Can you explain 'braze on for a sturmey wheel for a sturmey rear wheel'?


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## Cycleops (12 Jul 2022)

Seen far worse down here. You could do a oily rag restoration and maybe consider a SS conversion as suggested above.
Hope you got the cotter pins. The rims are not chrome but appear to be alloy.
The burning decider is does the seat post move or can make it move with a little persuasion? If not then I'm afraid it's scrap.


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## CharleyFarley (12 Jul 2022)

I'd put it back together, clean it up and sell it. I did an old, neglected 7-speed cruiser, recently, that the lady owner was going to dump. The handlebars were rusty so I sanded them and painted them with black Rustoleum paint. Put some lube on the rusty chain. Adjusted the rim brakes and sold it on a local online market. I asked $40 (£33.58) for it. Sold it in one hour. A dozen people wanted it. I put about 45 minutes of work into it, so the cash helps with groceries. I've done three of them, this year, all given to me. They were actually quite serviceable after I finished them; I wouldn't sell junk to people who can't afford better bikes.


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Seen far worse down here. You could do a oily rag restoration and maybe consider a SS conversion as suggested above.
> Hope you got the cotter pins. The rims are not chrome but appear to be alloy.
> The burning decider is does the seat post move or can make it move with a little persuasion? If not then I'm afraid it's scrap.



Seat post moves ✅
Cotter pins present (very worn)✅
I was thinking of de-rusting & oily rag frame.
Are the wheels worth £20 on replacement spokes?


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## midlife (12 Jul 2022)

The gear wire for sturmey used to go over a little wheel under the seat. Braze on was usually a better class of frame.


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

midlife said:


> The gear wire for sturmey used to go over a little wheel under the seat. Braze on was usually a better class of frame.


Apologies, I was looking at the wrong part of the frame.
Yes, there appears to be something here




Forks & crown were originally chrome, as was the rear triangle.
I dont think the blue paint nor decals (no name) are original.


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## Cycleops (12 Jul 2022)

Sure, decent pair of old skool wheels with alloy rims, replacement spokes and new bearings. Easily worth twenty notes.

That's a hanger for the centre pulls.


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## midlife (12 Jul 2022)

I was looking at the small cylindrical braze on opposite the hanger, I think the mudguard eyes are quick release too. Not a shabby frame when new.


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## biggs682 (12 Jul 2022)

As others have said i would expect that was a tasty frame back in the day
My attack would be to make it ride able and use it as a pub bike and enjoy it


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

Would the lugs or frame number give any clue to it's origin?
The original colour appears to be gold, could i get the blue off & leave the remnants of the gold?


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## midlife (12 Jul 2022)

Looks to me like a lightweight Raleigh Lenton variant.

This website helps with numbers sometimes 

https://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html


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## biggs682 (12 Jul 2022)

That fork crown has a Ridge look about it .

@newts try soaking a rag in thinners and gently rub the gold it should come off


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## newts (12 Jul 2022)

@midlife i'll do a bit of googling along this. 
@biggs682 acetone?


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## midlife (12 Jul 2022)

Peter Kohler has written about the Lenton, here for example but also on Sheldon Brown.wonder if your forks have been changed.

https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-raleigh-lentons-1948-1960.html


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## biggs682 (13 Jul 2022)

newts said:


> @biggs682 acetone?


Not sure re acetone never used it


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## dave r (13 Jul 2022)

Looks ideal for a fixed wheel conversion, spend the minimum amount on it and use it as a runabout.


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## newts (13 Jul 2022)

midlife said:


> Peter Kohler has written about the Lenton, here for example but also on Sheldon Brown.wonder if your forks have been changed.
> 
> https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-raleigh-lentons-1948-1960.html



Thanks for the link & it led me onto this
https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-clubmans-1946-1951.html
@biggs682 is indeed correct, i'm sure it's a Rudge Areo Clubman c1951
the page tells us the following;-
Raleigh, Humber & Rudge only differing by their fork crowns
1950 chrome fork ends, chainstays & rearstays
brazed on Sturmey-Archer cable pulley boss
Bayliss-Wiley large flange Continental hubs, Dunplop HP Stainless steel rims
The revised Clubman also benefited from the new range of alloy shell hub gears introduced in late 1949 by Sturmey-Archer. Supplied "stock" with flip-flop fixed and free single gear, any of the Sturmey-Archer hub gears could be fitted at extra cost including those made specifically for club riding. 
FIL Had the deraileur gears fitted & swapped to flat handlebars (& that paint job!), he says the Brooks saddle went in the late 70's.
Apart from that everything is as it should be.


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## si_c (13 Jul 2022)

That looks like a nice project bike. I wouldn't scrap it, that's an utter waste. 

I'd spend the time to strip the frame of parts, and thoroughly clean it, there is a little surface rust there clearly, but you should be able to clean that off with minimal effort. Once you've done that I'd spray it with a clearcoat to prevent any more damage to the paint and preserver the patina.

Tidy up and clean all the parts, and consider a fixed/single speed conversion as mentioned above (that crank is practically begging for it) and the hubs are basically ready for it too.

I woudn't re-use the rims if they are stainless steel, I'd swap them out for something newer, a Halo Retro for example and re-use the hubs, new spokes throughout. 

It really depends whether you want to spend any money on it, if you are able to though you'll get a really nice retro bike at the end of it.


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## newts (18 Jul 2022)

I was hoping the blue paint applied in the late 50's by FIL would come off leaving plenty of original paint underneath.
I've tried all chemicals, acetone , paint stripper, meths etc, it will only come off with a hot air gun.
The steerer tube does give a clue to it's former glory.


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## Cycleops (18 Jul 2022)

I think you're fighting a losing battle there @newts That bronze looks rather nice, be great recreate it but the cost?


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## simongt (18 Jul 2022)

How about having the frame shot blasted and powder coated - ? Upgrade with whatever components that suit you and go. A bit drastic, but I did this with a Dawes Fox some years ago in not dissimilar condition. Now it's my 'sports bike' and a delight to ride - !


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## newts (18 Jul 2022)

I'm going to strip the blue, treat the rust & review from there. 
Maybe just clearcoat what's left?
I was off work with covid last week (2nd time for me), managed to potter in the garage & strip the bike down. 
Hubs have been cleaned & greased.


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## newts (23 Jul 2022)

My first attempt at wheel building was quite satisfying as the wheel began to tighten up. 70 year old rims aren't perfect, they're within 1.5mm which i think will suffice for a runabout bike. It was a slow process & average spoke tension is around 110kgf & feels tight.


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## newts (27 Jul 2022)

Which 27" tyres & inner tubes would CC'ers recommend for this bike?


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## T4tomo (27 Jul 2022)

you can use standard 700c inner tubes. I use Panaracer Pasela PT on my vintage bikes - good tyre with a gum wall version. come in both 700c and 27", both 1 1/4 and 1 3/8h depending on frame clearance. front fork looks like loads of clearance!


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## newts (27 Jul 2022)

T4tomo said:


> you can use standard 700c inner tubes. I use Panaracer Pasela PT on my vintage bikes - good tyre with a gum wall version. come in both 700c and 27", both 1 1/4 and 1 3/8h depending on frame clearance. front fork looks like loads of clearance!



I thought 700c inner tubes would suffice, theanks for confriming. 
The panracer looks a very nice tyre.
I'm looking to go budget with this bike, should I compromise on tyre cost?


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## T4tomo (27 Jul 2022)

newts said:


> I thought 700c inner tubes would suffice, theanks for confriming.
> The panracer looks a very nice tyre.
> I'm looking to go budget with this bike, *should I compromise on tyre cost?*


up to you. the wired version is cheaper than folding version

https://fawkes-cycles.co.uk/panarac...MaRBF0Q6xlU2I-5bPuN4m72SS4ERzHP4aAljvEALw_wcB


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## Illaveago (27 Jul 2022)

What has happened to the frame ?
I would brush some cellulose thinners on the blue paint with a toothbrush and wipe it off with a rag .
I would also treat the rust in a similar way but using some rust removing gel.
Have a look at my Dawes Red Feather Find post for rust .


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## newts (27 Jul 2022)

Illaveago said:


> What has happened to the frame ?
> I would brush some cellulose thinners on the blue paint with a toothbrush and wipe it off with a rag .
> I would also treat the rust in a similar way but using some rust removing gel.
> Have a look at my Dawes Red Feather Find post for rust .


 I tried brake cleaner fluid yesterday & the blue paint just laughed at it. 
The frame has taken a back seat whilst I was cleaning up the wheels. 
Chrome bits are soaking in an oxalic acid bath, rust is diminishing slowly.


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## Illaveago (28 Jul 2022)

newts said:


> I tried brake cleaner fluid yesterday & the blue paint just laughed at it.
> The frame has taken a back seat whilst I was cleaning up the wheels.
> Chrome bits are soaking in an oxalic acid bath, rust is diminishing slowly.



Cellulose thinners will destroy most paint finishes . You could even try petrol , E 10 can affect paint and plastics .


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## newts (20 Aug 2022)

I tried the tin foil method to clean up the chrome but it was too much elbow grease. The rusty bits have been soaking in oxalic acid for a couple of weeks (dsrt spoon of barkeepers friend in a pint of hot water) & have screubbed up well.


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## wafter (20 Aug 2022)

Glad to see it turned out to be something interesting enough to be worth saving, and that you're saving it


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## Illaveago (20 Aug 2022)

Some more rust would come off with a light scrape with a flat screwdriver blade .


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## wafter (29 Aug 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Some more rust would come off with a light scrape with a flat screwdriver blade .



I've found electrolysis to be a very good, very-low-collateral process for removing corrosion in the past


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## newts (29 Aug 2022)

wafter said:


> I've found electrolysis to be a very good, very-low-collateral process for removing corrosion in the past



Would electrolysis take the chrome off too?


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## wafter (29 Aug 2022)

newts said:


> Would electrolysis take the chrome off too?



That's a very good question - I'd guess not but it's probably worth a test on something expendable first!


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## newts (29 Aug 2022)

I have used this method successfully in the past for derusting old tools & steam toys. I'll search out a sacrificial chrome bit to test?


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## wafter (29 Aug 2022)

newts said:


> I have used this method successfully in the past for derusting old tools & steam toys. I'll search out a sacrificial chrome bit to test?



Good work - would be interested to hear how you get on


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## Illaveago (29 Aug 2022)

newts said:


> Would electrolysis take the chrome off too?



That was one thought that came to mind when I considered it . It is one way that platers use to remove chrome .


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## Chislenko (30 Aug 2022)

Sell it to Drew "Patina" Pritchard!


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