# Just done a regular MTB ride on the new crosser.



## Globalti (22 Nov 2011)

Got back from Khartoum yesterday so took a day off work and went up to Dunsop Bridge (centre of the UK) in the Bowland Forest, where I thought I'd try the bike on Hornby Road, which is a very ancient track running NW about 10 miles from Slaidburn across the tops of the fells.
The first five miles on tarmac were fine although definitely slower than on the carbon roadie then I got on to worn out concrete shooters' track and dropped the tyre pressures a bit. The tyres are slicks so quite skittish on gravelly surfaces but with a bit of yomping I made it to the top of the fell. Turned left then and took a cheeky trail down into a little valley that leads back to Whitendale Farm. Riding down a gentle hill on tussocky grass was when the off-road limitation of the bike became clear - I just didn't have the confidence that I'd have had on the mountain bike and ended up walking some bits I know I've ridden in the past. Got to some horribly boggy sections and the bike was pretty good, bearing in mind I was on slicks it ploughed through bogs well, holding a good line and not sinking in as much as I expected - maybe the 700 size wheels are better for crossing boggy ground. Having quite a stiff ali frame might help as you feel as if all your effort is going straight to the back wheel.
Once I got back onto smoother ground it was great, blasting effortlessly along singletrack, then farm track and down through fields at a good rate, then really fast for the last 4 miles down a nice smooth tarmac access road. Back to Dunsop Bridge as darkness fell and drank a pint of tea in the cafe while yarning with Trevor the owner by a nice warm log fire.
Altogether a good couple of hours out. A bike like this would have been great for the Polaris trailquest events I used to do a lot, the speed would definitely give you an advantage.... I wonder if Polaris allow crossers?


----------



## battered (22 Nov 2011)

Polaris rules are for 26" wheels. After that it's open. The 90s MTBs I used to use were suited to it, a lot of riders went down to 26 x 1.5 for speed and did well.


----------



## Globalti (22 Nov 2011)

I used to do it on hardtails with 26 x 1.6" tyres and panniers. I always laughed at the riders on FS bikes with knobby 2.2 tyres, groaning with the pain in their backsides from carrying a rucsac.


----------



## G-Zero (22 Nov 2011)

Globalti,

That puts my mind at ease a bit about the crosser I've got ordered. I was hoping to be able to continue with the off road/trails/tracks that I do with the current bike and if you managed ok on slicks, then I'm well happy that it will cope with the knobblies that are on it.


----------



## Globalti (23 Nov 2011)

Tyres are an over-rated subject. A bicycle tyre has excellent lateral grip in most normal circumstances no matter what kind of tread it has. The skittishness on gravel was due to the tyres being so narrow and the high pressure, meaning that they rolled off stones rather than over them. On wet grass I noticed the slicks juddering as they slipped down a small slope sideways a couple of times and on a couple of other occasions I felt the rear tyre spinning slightly as I applied power but I don't think a more grippy tyre would have made any difference to my progress. The biggest problem on the tussocky downhill was inside my head.

I've got a pair of Schwalbe Land Cruisers but no plan to fit them until the snow comes.


----------



## Paul.G. (23 Nov 2011)

Ive had a pair of Schwalbe Land Cruiser's on my cross bike for almost a year, brilliant tyres and got through the Salisbury CX sportive last weekend without even so much as a "nick" in the tyres when all around me were getting flats, not bad for a £15 tyre!


----------



## Globalti (8 Dec 2011)

Thought you might be interested in an update on this.... last night I took the CX on a mountain bike club ride, to see how it performed against the full-suspension tanks those guys use. The ride was billed as a cross-country trip down Rossendale valley using BWs, tracks and a bit of tarmac so nothing too technical. However the ride leader had an agenda and wanted a quick ride so we ended up doing only 7 miles down a disused railway into Accrington then back on a medieval packhorse road called The King's Highway. On the good surfaces the crosser was waaay faster than the mountain bikes as you would expect. On muddy narrow singletrack BW with eroded hollows filled with water it was excellent and the stability of the wheelbase made it easy to keep up with the mountain bikes, the Land Cruisers dug down and gripped well and it carried itself through the watersplashes with good momentum and directional stability. However once things became rocky it was out of its depth; no match for a FS mountain bike with 2.2 tyres or bigger and wide flat bars, so I was off and walking and sprained my ankle too. On climbs it just breezed up and for the first time ever I was able to get a sense of the steepness of a typical road climb against a typical mountain bike climb - no difference but always difficult to judge when you do them on different bikes. Here the CX just breezed up gravelly BWs and tracks in middle or small ring; the stiffness of the rear triangle made climbing out of the saddle a worthwhile option. I dropped the tyre pressures to around 40 and they seemed grippy and comfortable. Again though on anything rocky at that pressure I felt them bottoming out several times and feared I would pinch puncture. Around the car park I thought that toe overlap with the mudguard could be a problem but in practice out on the trail it wasn't. A short but fascinating trip.


----------



## Moss (31 Dec 2011)

Globalti said:


> Thought you might be interested in an update on this.... last night I took the CX on a mountain bike club ride, to see how it performed against the full-suspension tanks those guys use. The ride was billed as a cross-country trip down Rossendale valley using BWs, tracks and a bit of tarmac so nothing too technical. However the ride leader had an agenda and wanted a quick ride so we ended up doing only 7 miles down a disused railway into Accrington then back on a medieval packhorse road called The King's Highway. On the good surfaces the crosser was waaay faster than the mountain bikes as you would expect. On muddy narrow singletrack BW with eroded hollows filled with water it was excellent and the stability of the wheelbase made it easy to keep up with the mountain bikes, the Land Cruisers dug down and gripped well and it carried itself through the watersplashes with good momentum and directional stability. However once things became rocky it was out of its depth; no match for a FS mountain bike with 2.2 tyres or bigger and wide flat bars, so I was off and walking and sprained my ankle too. On climbs it just breezed up and for the first time ever I was able to get a sense of the steepness of a typical road climb against a typical mountain bike climb - no difference but always difficult to judge when you do them on different bikes. Here the CX just breezed up gravelly BWs and tracks in middle or small ring; the stiffness of the rear triangle made climbing out of the saddle a worthwhile option. I dropped the tyre pressures to around 40 and they seemed grippy and comfortable. Again though on anything rocky at that pressure I felt them bottoming out several times and feared I would pinch puncture. Around the car park I thought that toe overlap with the mudguard could be a problem but in practice out on the trail it wasn't. A short but fascinating trip.


 
Hi Globalti,

Two brilliant reports on two different x country rides! Could I ask what tyres you had on the bike and what size - I'm thinking of putting a pair of Michelin Lithion 700 x25 on my New Ridley X Ride Bike! Would like to fit 700 x 23 but not sure if I should go as narrow as 23? Would appreciate your thoughts on this!

That pint of tea sounds like a welcome comforter after a brisk ride! Hows the ankle? Really enjoyed reading your reports.

M


----------



## Globalti (31 Dec 2011)

Thanks! The ankle recovered pretty quickly.

The road tyres that came on the bike are Specialized Borough CX Armadillo Elite in 700 x 32c. At 80 psi they roll along pretty well and seem grippy and secure even on wet roads.

The off road tyres are just cheap Schwalbe Land Cruisers in 700 x 35c size, quite a bit heavier than the Boroughs.

The Ridley is aluminium with a carbon fork, right? I'd have thought a 25 tyre would be OK but I don't know enough about tyre and wheel combinations to comment on the suitability of a 25 or 23 tyre on your rims.


----------



## smokeysmoo (31 Dec 2011)

When I got a CX bike a while back I went 'off-road' with it and thought it was fantastic. I had MTBers looking at me like I was completely doolally as I went flying past them. Yet another bike I should have kept hold of


----------



## Moss (31 Dec 2011)

Globalti said:


> Thanks! The ankle recovered pretty quickly.
> 
> The road tyres that came on the bike are Specialized Borough CX Armadillo Elite in 700 x 32c. At 80 psi they roll along pretty well and seem grippy and secure even on wet roads.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply! Here's the Bike >
http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/m14b316s195p8380/ridley_x-ride_1015b_2011/rs_gb/22433
I probably wont do any cyclo cross events on it - just use it for road and trial maybe. Were the CX Armadillo a slick tyre? the Ridley X Ride comes with Nobbly 700 x 32 not sure of make? And I'm getting the Ultegra version of the above bike. I may even sell it on - or swap it for an equivalent valued road bike? As I already have a couple of MTB XC bikes. Anyhow it wont arrive until about the 7th of JAN 2012. Looking forward to seeing it though, they get excellent reviews as one of the lightest cross bikes.

What bike are you using for cyclo cross?

Regards

M


----------



## Globalti (31 Dec 2011)

That Ridley looks tasty. Mine is a Specialized Tricross with discs and Tiagra equipment, here: http://www.evanscycles.com/products...bike-ec030755?query=specialized tricross bike

It came with Avid BB5 brakes, which I sold and swapped for BB7s. I have fitted mudguards and removed the panic brake levers. After two months it is shaping up nicely as a go-anywhere winter trainer. On long road rides the position is comfortable and I've just done an hour on it on the turbo and I feel fine. Strictly speaking as somebody else has pointed out, it's not a cyclocross bike and I will probably never race it; it's more of a "crossover" bike. It's quite a bit heavier than the carbon road bike, which feels like a Ferrari in comparison. Despite that, over my regular two hour training ride with about 1750 ft of climbing it was only 8 minutes slower than the roadie. Specialised are sometimes derided as the "Tesco" of bike makers but I like their bikes and more importantly I get on well with the retailer who gave me a tasty discount as a sweetener.


----------



## Moss (31 Dec 2011)

Hi G,

I like the Specialised X Bike, the Tiagra 10, is as good as 105, and you have disc brakes! I'm going to use the Ridley X Ride in the same manner as you use the Specialised, keeping the Cube Carbon for road rides in warmer weather! My Daughter rides a Specialised Comp, she would not part with it! She prefers it to my carbon bike.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

M


----------



## Globalti (4 Jan 2012)

Since buying the Tricross I have begun to understand that there are already many excellent CX frames out there so I am going to wait until Shimano bring out a hydraulic road brake lever then sell the Tricross as it's a wee bit heavy for my liking and build myself the perfect tourer/winter trainer/possible CX racer with the lightest components possible and nice little hydraulic disc brakes.


----------



## VamP (4 Jan 2012)

Nice plan Globalti.
In case you get tired of waiting (has anyone announced plans to make a hydraulic road brake lever?) this might be a good alternative http://road.cc/content/news/46405-first-ride-kinesis-crosslight-pro6

I am liking the Kinesis approach to cross bikes a lot! In fact my next racer is going to be the CSix 2 - canti brakes of course


----------



## Globalti (4 Jan 2012)

Nice, I've already drooled over that one. However the brakes are a compromise with that cable to hydro adaptor. My wife's MTB has some Avis Juicys fitted, which are really minimal and excellent brakes so I'm wondering if those would work with whatever levers Shimano eventually launch, unless they launch with an equally light and tasty caliper. I'm a bit out of date on discs as my original Hope Minis are still doing a fine job on my mountain bike.

Out of interest I emailed Hope to ask if they had any plans for a hydraulic road brake but they replied that their adaptor already does a good enough job.


----------



## Moss (4 Jan 2012)

VamP said:


> Nice plan Globalti.
> In case you get tired of waiting (has anyone announced plans to make a hydraulic road brake lever?) this might be a good alternative http://road.cc/content/news/46405-first-ride-kinesis-crosslight-pro6
> 
> I am liking the Kinesis approach to cross bikes a lot! In fact my next racer is going to be the CSix 2 - canti brakes of course


 
Love that bike! just signed up to the site. Vamp, what's your opinion on V-Brakes for a Cyclo Cross Bike? I have them on my new to be delivered tomorrow Ridley X Ride Bike!


----------



## VamP (4 Jan 2012)

Moss said:


> Love that bike! just signed up to the site. Vamp, what's your opinion on V-Brakes for a Cyclo Cross Bike? I have them on my new to be delivered tomorrow Ridley X Ride Bike!


 
I don't really have an opinion - don't see a lot of them racing, though I am not really sure why...

The V brakes on my MTB work pretty well, but then so do the cantis on my race bike. Mud clearance shouldn't be an issue, weight shouldn't really be an issue... let me know how you get on with them 

And post pics!


----------



## Andrew Br (4 Jan 2012)

Prompted partly by this thread and partly by the mechanic at my LBS saying how impressed he was with the TRP Parabox, I've just tried to compare the weights of BB7 cable calipers, the Parabox + calipers and the Hope V Twin +calipers.
Heaviest is the Parabox at 451g/wheel, BB7s are 329g/wheel and the Hope is (if I've been given the correct info) 240g/wheel*

I think these adaptors are going to prove to be very popular for a few years. I can't realistically see Shimano bringing out their proposed hydraulic drop levers until 2013 at the earliest and the initial versions will, presumably, be at the top end of the range so ££££ (they might even be Di2 so a new drive-train will be needed).
This is an expensive option for those of us with perfectly serviceable cable levers especially if, like me, they're Campag (on the light bike or non- integrated (on the Rohloffed tourer).

At £250 including the calipers, the Hope system looks to be very good value. I can't believe I've just said that............




* I'm a little sceptical about the Hope; it sounds too light and I'm not sure that I understood the info from them; I phoned to find out the weight of a caliper and the master cylinder since the on-line info is for a complete system including the MTB levers and rotors. The weight of the master cylinder is 92g without fluid.

** I was only interested in the weight of the calipers and master cylinders since I already have rotors and levers on my bike.



.


----------



## Globalti (4 Jan 2012)

Adaptors and cable disc brakes are an evolutionary halfway house, which will become obsolete as soon as a full hydraulic system hits the shops. I've just read on the Singletrack forum that SRAM are about to announce something big for 2012, can't link you to it because I can only go there during lunch hour. However the writer seemed to think that a SRAM brake/gear unit doesn't have enough internal space for a hydraulic cylinder and reservoir whereas a Shimano STI lever does. Professional road race teams won't waste any time in moving over to hydraulic discs and it's likely that the actual discs will be big, 180mm or more in order to dissipate the heat of a long Alpine descent.


----------



## Andrew Br (4 Jan 2012)

I've just read the article.

I can see the sense in the bigger rotors even if I was sceptical at first. (My reasoning was that they won't want the greater weight and, while the descents on TdeF, Vuelta etc are long, those riders are aren't carrying as much weight as we would be ie fat and panniers and they're not going to be dragging the brakes much, again as we would. Then I remembered the UCI weight limit so they'll use the extra weight for the brakes rather than sticking lead onto the frame.)

The anticipated SRAM announcement is for the Red groupset. So that's about £350 for new levers only based on current pricing. But of course they'll jack the price up if they're introducing significantly new technology.
Again according to, the article Shimano are looking at disc-compatible Di2. So ~£750-£1500 depending whether it's Ultegra or DA and then there's the cost of the calipers and rotors !

No, I think the adaptors will be around for a good few years although I agree that fully integrated systems will become more popular when the price comes down significantly.
It'll be interesting to see how Campag and SRAM fit hydraulic cylinders into their levers. Or maybe they'll use remote master cylinders ;-)



.


----------



## VamP (4 Jan 2012)

I am not sure how sound that prediction is TBH. It's kind of sandwiched between Hushovd for the Olympic Gold, and the Dutch building a mountain, with underwater bobsled run.

If, and that's a big if, it comes to pass, there will be a two speed impact, as not only will the technology itself be expensive, but the knock-on effects of related gear replacement will be huger still. Can we really see tens of thousands of amateur racers getting rid of frames and wheelsets running into thousands and tens of thousands of pounds? 

Would be good news for those of us who don't find rim brakes to be a limiting factor I suppose. Somehow, I just don't think that the scope for improvement that we saw with MTBs is there. I could be wrong, I often am


----------



## Globalti (5 Jan 2012)

The rim of the wheel is the perfect disc brake and the technology for applying friction material has been developed to a high level. The only factor, which spoils the rim as a brake is its susceptibility to wetting and contamination so perhaps discs will only become popular on road bikes ridden in wet climates? Why would you need to worry about dirty wet rims if you lived in the south of France, Spain or California?


----------

