# Di2 in the sales ...is it worth it



## gmw492 (26 Dec 2019)

Hi all, I have never really bothered about Di2 due to the price increase from a Ultegra mechanical to Di2.
Now however in the sales there is not a big jump in price as it's varaible at around £150 to £200 difference now at my LBS, started looking at videos on it and semi shifting and once set up seems little adjustment if any and looks good.
How do you find it and would it be better saving a bit of money and staying mechanical and put the money towards an upgrade maybe wheels or aero drop bar etc, or is it worth going for. Like I said I never wanted to spend £500-600 more for it so never looked at it but as it's sale price now it has just got me thinking, then again there are ultegra bikes on offer now too at different stores so the price has dropped on some of them too.
Long winded question sorry ,but how good is Di2 ?
Thanks


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## derrick (26 Dec 2019)

Love mine. Smooth as silk.once set you can forget about it.Had it for a couple of years with no issues.


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## PaulSB (26 Dec 2019)

I've never used Di2 would make two observations. A few years back everyone was talking about it in my club. No one mentions it today.

My other thought is the benefit of upgraded wheels is very significant. I'd spend my money on those.


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## ianrauk (26 Dec 2019)

It's not a case of if its worth it or you need it rather then do you really want it?


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## Drago (26 Dec 2019)

Only you can answer "is it worth it?" I've tried it many times, and it's a technical tour de force, marvel of applied engineering, and very reliable. Shimano stole a march of half a decade and no one has really caught up, it's that accomplished.

But at the level at which we ride it won't make you any faster, and it somehow leaves me cold, doesn't excite or interest me at all.

Only you know which side of the fence you fall on. If it will tug your rug then it's worth it, if it won't then it isn't. We can't decide that on your behalf.

If its performance gains you're after then upgrade wheels are in a completely different league and well worth the spend.


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## Pale Rider (26 Dec 2019)

I've tried it and I thought it was effin' brilliant.

I've spoken to a few users, some of whom consider themselves techno-cynics, and they thought the same.


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## Drago (26 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> I've tried it and I thought it was effin' brilliant.


Aye, I remember the first time I tried it it felt almost supernatural!


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## TigerT (26 Dec 2019)

Best upgrade I've ever made. Never thought I wanted it until I got it and while I'm happy riding a bike without it, I'm very happy to have it.


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## Pale Rider (26 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> Aye, I remember the first time I tried it it felt almost supernatural!



Perhaps I'm easily impressed, but the way it automatically trims the front mech did it for me.

The chain scraping on the inside of the front mech on a cable change always annoyed me, to the point where I would avoid changing when I otherwise wanted to.


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## gmw492 (26 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> Only you can answer "is it worth it?" I've tried it many times, and it's a technical tour de force, marvel of applied engineering, and very reliable. Shimano stole a march of half a decade and no one has really caught up, it's that accomplished.
> 
> But at the level at which we ride it won't make you any faster, and it somehow leaves me cold, doesn't excite or interest me at all.
> 
> ...


I do not think anything aprt from an e bike will make me faster, it is just the point of how good is it for shifting and once set up runs smoothly, like I said its not much dearer than mechanical but you have answered part my question by stating that it is a marvel of applied engineering and reliable, that is the way of how I am leaning towards it,I know it will not make me any faster, cheers


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## Heigue'r (26 Dec 2019)

I ride mecanical and di2...love the di2,it is on the good bike which kind of defeats the object in my case.If I was going to buy a new commuter I would spec di2 as this bike gets the most miles therefor the most maintenance,suffers cable stretch over time that needs adjusting,snaped cables that need replacing etc.Di2 eliminates this.If the good bike was mecanical,it probably wouldnt need adjusting over the course of the year with the amount of use it gets.In short,Di2 is lovely but next time it will be going on high mileage bike..ie commuter.


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## gmw492 (26 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Perhaps I'm easily impressed, but the way it automatically trims the front mech did it for me.
> 
> The chain scraping on the inside of the front mech on a cable change always annoyed me, to the point where I would avoid changing when I otherwise wanted to.


Great quote, that is one headache for me too , that's another reason why I like he look of it, cheers


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## Gunk (26 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Perhaps I'm easily impressed, but the way it automatically trims the front mech did it for me.
> 
> The chain scraping on the inside of the front mech on a cable change always annoyed me, to the point where I would avoid changing when I otherwise wanted to.



I still like a good quality mechanical set up, but still having to trim the front mech is bloody annoying.

My performance gains would be easier to achieve however by losing half a stone!


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## EltonFrog (26 Dec 2019)

I’ve ridden a couple of bikes with it , it as others have said feckin brilliant. Is it worth it? No.


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## Pale Rider (26 Dec 2019)

CarlP said:


> Is it worth it? No.



That's true, but to me it's also part of the fun.

I've spent my life being relatively financially prudent because I've had to be.

It's nice to be a bit reckless now and again.


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## derrick (26 Dec 2019)

CarlP said:


> I’ve ridden a couple of bikes with it , it as others have said feckin brilliant. Is it worth it? No.


It's worth it for me to have it on the other half bike. She was never happy with her Ultegra cable setup. But then again she is always fiddling with one thing or another.I have set hundreds of mechanical systems up. Never had a real problem just the occasional tweak. But even she cannot fault her Di2.


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## Mo1959 (26 Dec 2019)

derrick said:


> It's worth it for me to have it on the other half bike. She was never happy with her Ultegra cable setup. But then again she is always fiddling with one thing or another.I have set hundreds of mechanical systems up. Never had a real problem just the occasional tweak. But even she cannot fault her Di2.


How long does the battery last roughly, say doing 3 rides of 2 or 3 hours per week?


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## derrick (26 Dec 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> How long does the battery last roughly, say doing 3 rides of 2 or 3 hours per week?


A few months. Never really calculated it.I reckon I charge it every two or three months.as soon as I get a flashing light. Which is supposed to be halfway through the battery. Never let it go beyond that. So in theory you could possible get away with three or four charges a year. But I do really use the gears a lot. Keeping cadence right.


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## PapaZita (26 Dec 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> How long does the battery last roughly, say doing 3 rides of 2 or 3 hours per week?



Probably longer than you’d think. Several months, or more than 1000 miles, in my experience. It’s easy to test the charge by holding down a shift button. I’ve often given mine a top up charge, “just to be sure”, before a big ride, and consequently rarely see it report anything other than that it’s well charged.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> How long does the battery last roughly, say doing 3 rides of 2 or 3 hours per week?



Long distance audaxes suggest you can get around 900 miles out if a fully charged DI2. It obviously depends on how much you are shifting.


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## PaulSB (26 Dec 2019)

gmw492 said:


> I *do not think anything aprt from an e bike will make me faster, *it is just the point of how good is it for shifting and once set up runs smoothly, like I said its not much dearer than mechanical but you have answered part my question by stating that it is a marvel of applied engineering and reliable, that is the way of how I am leaning towards it,I know it will not make me any faster, cheers



High quality wheels will make you go faster, deliver more comfort and greater stability when cornering. I think it's worth 2+ mph on the flat, climbing is easier and around 5+ mph descending.

Last year I was training for the 312 and had been having a lot of dialogue with my LBS about this. I wandered in one day and the owner said "I know how we can make you go faster." Went out the back, returned to hand me a pair of carbon tubeless wheels. With tyres it cost me +/-£650.

I did this on trust. The improvement is very significant.

I wouldn't dream of telling you how to spend your cash. However Di2 will deliver pleasure and a smoother change. New wheels will deliver improved performance all round and a smoother more comfortable ride. That's my pleasure!

For me it's a no brainer.

Does the £150/200 you quote include shifters etc?


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## Smokin Joe (26 Dec 2019)

Spend a grand on an amp or a turntable to make your Hi Fi sound 1% better and everybody will go Wow! Upgrade you bike for half of that so it feels nicer to ride and get your sanity questioned.

You want it, you can afford it? Go for it.


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## JhnBssll (26 Dec 2019)

I upgraded to Di2 on my 'best' bike and haven't looked back. Since then I've gone Di2 on 3 other bikes and am currently buying parts for the wifes bike as she struggles with the mechanical shifters due to a hand injury.

Its fab, you wont regret it


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## vickster (26 Dec 2019)

It’s only a grand or so isn’t it? If you want it, why not?


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## RegG (26 Dec 2019)

Its one of the best upgrades you can make - smooth and silky gear changes, long battery life, just brilliant!


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## CXRAndy (26 Dec 2019)

Ive had it 4-5 years, its never let me down. I cycled in some truly wet conditions and its been perfect. I now have 3 bikes with it now. It is a luxury, but once you have used it you will likely never go back to mechanical derailleurs. I got all the correct interface kit to setup and upgrade firmware. The syncro shift and precise shift is so reliable. The front derailleur self trims as you move and down the cassette. I could go on about fingertip shifting too


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## CXRAndy (26 Dec 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> How long does the battery last roughly, say doing 3 rides of 2 or 3 hours per week?



1000 miles is possible in summer. You get warning if you dont have the MT800 display/sat nav integration. The front derailleur will stop working several hours before the battery goes flat


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## keithmac (26 Dec 2019)

I'm of the opinion if you spend more than a day mulling it over you have to buy it!.

It does look a great bit of technology.


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## Globalti (26 Dec 2019)

I read somewhere that Shimano has 4000 staff, of whom 400 are involved in R&D whereas Suntour has (had) 400 and 40. They still made the loveliest little thumb shifters though.


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## Justinitus (27 Dec 2019)

I don’t know much about Di2 but a self trimming front mech sounds good 

Is there much of a weight penalty with a Di2 system? There’s the battery and I’d imagine the mechs are heavier, but I’d be interested to know the difference between say Ultegra mechanical setup vs Di2.

Not looking to buy, just interested!


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## gmw492 (27 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> Does the £150/200 you quote include shifters etc?


Yes , it’s the full groupset


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## PaulSB (27 Dec 2019)

gmw492 said:


> Yes , it’s the full groupset


Excuse my confusion and possibly ignorance. Are you looking to buy a new bike with Di2 and it's only £150/200 more? If so I would definitely go for the Di2. Wheel upgrades can come at anytime.

If, and I presume this is possible, you've been offered a full groupset for £150/200 to put on a bike you already own I'd still argue for new wheels.

Have you got a link to these cheap groupsets?


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## CXRAndy (27 Dec 2019)

Justinitus said:


> I don’t know much about Di2 but a self trimming front mech sounds good
> 
> Is there much of a weight penalty with a Di2 system? There’s the battery and I’d imagine the mechs are heavier, but I’d be interested to know the difference between say Ultegra mechanical setup vs Di2.
> 
> Not looking to buy, just interested!



Yes there is a small weight penalty, but who cares for the superior function


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## Heigue'r (27 Dec 2019)

Justinitus said:


> I don’t know much about Di2 but a self trimming front mech sounds good
> 
> Is there much of a weight penalty with a Di2 system? There’s the battery and I’d imagine the mechs are heavier, but I’d be interested to know the difference between say Ultegra mechanical setup vs Di2.
> 
> Not looking to buy, just interested!


https://ccache.cc/blogs/newsroom/2018-road-groupset-weight-comparison

Not alot in it..weights above do not include bateries/cables/wires


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## ishaqmir (27 Dec 2019)

Absolutely love di2! I’ve been using it in full synchro shift and it’s perfect for me. Also great in the winter as I’ve connected it wirelessly via the WU111 unit to my Garmin and ant+ lights, so I can toggle modes via handle bar buttons to switch screens and flashing lights to full beam etc


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## gmw492 (27 Dec 2019)

PaulSB said:


> Excuse my confusion and possibly ignorance. Are you looking to buy a new bike with Di2 and it's only £150/200 more? If so I would definitely go for the Di2. Wheel upgrades can come at anytime.
> 
> If, and I presume this is possible, you've been offered a full groupset for £150/200 to put on a bike you already own I'd still argue for new wheels.
> 
> Have you got a link to these cheap groupsets?


The new bike comes fitted with Di2 Only £150 more than the same model with Ultegra, not the full groupset on sale for £150 that would be a bargain,


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## Pale Rider (27 Dec 2019)

gmw492 said:


> The new bike comes fitted with Di2 Only £150 more than the same model with Ultegra, not the full groupset on sale for £150 that would be a bargain,



If you are having one of the bikes anyway, paying £150 extra for the Di2 model is what I believe is called a 'no brainer'.


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## Drago (27 Dec 2019)

I can't think of any off the peg bike that comes with a genuine "full" ultegra groupset.


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## samsbike (27 Dec 2019)

I have e- shifting as well for the first time but on an Alfine hub.
Like the others said - it’s great.

Easy no need to worry about cable stretch etc
Mine is on my E-bike - which is the one I use the most.


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## PaulSB (27 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> I can't think of any off the peg bike that comes with a genuine "full" ultegra groupset.



When I got my Cervelo C3 there was an off the peg option for full Ultegra. £500 extra, I couldn't see the point.


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## Mark pallister (27 Dec 2019)

I ride mechanical and di 2
on longer rides it’s di 2 all day ,it’s quieter and reliable and the semi synchro mode is perfect for me
i don’t think it offers any performance gains but it’s just nice to have


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## Mark pallister (27 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> I can't think of any off the peg bike that comes with a genuine "full" ultegra groupset.


All canyons advertised as such


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## Gunk (27 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> I can't think of any off the peg bike that comes with a genuine "full" ultegra groupset.



Very few come with a “full” groupset my BMC ALR01 says that it’s 105 but I’ve had to add a 105 5800 crankset and brake callipers.


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## Mark pallister (27 Dec 2019)

Gunk said:


> Very few come with a “full” groupset my BMC ALR01 says that it’s 105 but I’ve had to add a 105 5800 crankset and brake callipers.


If it’s advertised as a full group set that’s exactly what you should get 
most descriptions won’t say full if that’s the case you can’t complain


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## Gunk (27 Dec 2019)

They’re sneaky, they never say “full group set” it’s just the “105” or “Ultegra” version


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## Gunk (27 Dec 2019)

Or if you’re a pauper the “Sora” version


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## Drago (27 Dec 2019)

Mark pallister said:


> All canyons advertised as such


Yet not a single one comes with a complete, unadulterated Ultegra groupset, which would also include seat post, hubs, pedals, bottom bracket, and even skewers, etc. The best they do is geartrain, brakes and crank set.



Gunk said:


> They’re sneaky, they never say “full group set” it’s just the “105” or “Ultegra” version



Exactement! The term "groupset" is badly abused by sellers, and gullible buyers repeat it without even thinking. when someone thinks "I can get Di2 for only X amount more than an Ultegra groupset", what they should actually be thinking is "I can get the bare bones of a Di2 set up for X amount more than an Uletegra/partial Ultegra drivetrain." That makes the mathematics a little more realistic, is all.


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## Mark pallister (27 Dec 2019)

Drago said:


> Yet not a single one comes with a complete, unadulterated Ultegra groupset, which would also include seat post, hubs, pedals, bottom bracket, and even skewers, etc. The best they do is geartrain, brakes and crank set.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactement! The term "groupset" is badly abused by sellers, and gullible buyers repeat it without even thinking. when someone thinks "I can get Di2 for only X amount more than an Ultegra groupset", what they should actually be thinking is "I can get the bare bones of a Di2 set up for X amount more than an Uletegra/partial Ultegra drivetrain." That makes the mathematics a little more realistic, is all.


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## Mark pallister (27 Dec 2019)

you'll struggle to buy a bike complete with pedals ,bottom bracket should be included in groupset and I didn’t even know shimano made a seat post ?
hubs not unless I was buying Ultegra wheels 
I’ve only been cycling 6 yrs or so and my understanding of a groupset is drivetrain ,brakes,bb and shifters


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## Drago (27 Dec 2019)

Your understanding of groupset aligns with the sales patter definition, but differs from that used by the people who manufacture them.


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## Justinslow (27 Dec 2019)

Di2 is lovely, I find switching back to my 105 bike takes a little getting used to, particularly I don’t give the levers enough of a push as I’m used to the “buttons” of Di2. I find Di2 more tricky when wearing full gloves though in the cold as the lever doesn’t swing across, the “feel” is different if you catch my drift. And the noises it makes are great.


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## Gunk (27 Dec 2019)

Mark pallister said:


> you'll struggle to buy a bike complete with pedals ,bottom bracket should be included in groupset and I didn’t even know shimano made a seat post ?
> hubs not unless I was buying Ultegra wheels
> I’ve only been cycling 6 yrs or so and my understanding of a groupset is drivetrain ,brakes,bb and shifters



Shimano haven’t made an Ultegra seatpost for years, so you’re right a group set is just the drivetrain and brakes.


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

The definition of 'full' groupset seems to vary a little.

For example, some Shimano packages include hubs, some do not.

Cheap, no brand hubs is where some manufacturers save a shilling or two because they are less visible than the other bits.

The same can be said of bottom brackets.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano/groupsets/


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## Smokin Joe (28 Dec 2019)

I find "Groupset" to be a silly term. The shifters, cassette and mech have to be compatible for gear section but that's about it. Who makes the hubs, chainset, pedals and calipers is neither here nor there. Most of my bikes have been a mixture of parts.


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## Blue Hills (28 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Perhaps I'm easily impressed, but the way it automatically trims the front mech did it for me.
> 
> The chain scraping on the inside of the front mech on a cable change always annoyed me, to the point where I would avoid changing when I otherwise wanted to.


mm - i am a flat bar bod -have several nice shimano left hand rapidfires changers which will sort that with but the flick of a thumb. They will all probably outlive me.


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## Pale Rider (28 Dec 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> mm - i am a flat bar bod -have several nice shimano left hand rapidfires changers which will sort that with but the flick of a thumb. They will all probably outlive me.



Now you mention it, something rings a bell about a trim feature on flat bar Shimano shifters.

I suspect some owners don't know it exists.

Indexed shifters are nice on the back, but a friction shifter on the front would do the same job.


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## Blue Hills (28 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Now you mention it, something rings a bell about a trim feature on flat bar Shimano shifters.
> 
> I suspect some owners don't know it exists.
> 
> Indexed shifters are nice on the back, but a friction shifter on the front would do the same job.


I'm not sure they do them anymore.
I think some folk considered them an admission of defeat on the click-to-shift idea.
I use triples on most of my many many bikes and think they are great.
I'm no purist and doing the odd extra click for certain combinations worries me not a jot.
They are very well made - I still use a pair that came with a 2004 bike - well used, now on another bike build - I did look into lubeing them recently but decided there was no point taking them apart - they work fine so why screw it up?
I bought a few extras for about £15 each.

edit - mine are used as left triple shifters on 8 and 9 speed setups.
Keep it simple.


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## steveindenmark (29 Dec 2019)

Di2 is a luxury and not a necessity. If you are happy with mechanical, save your money for something else. My Di2 is excellent. But it is my least used bike.


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## Supersuperleeds (30 Dec 2019)

I was drooling over a Venge today with Di2, it was beautiful. I think Di2 is going onto my dream bike list.


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## Pale Rider (30 Dec 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I was drooling over a Venge today with Di2, it was beautiful. I think Di2 is going onto my dream bike list.



At least if you bought one it would get plenty of use.

Although without being rude, I'm not sure if you are cut out for too much electrickery.


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## Supersuperleeds (30 Dec 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> At least if you bought one it would get plenty of use.
> 
> Although without being rude, I'm not sure if you are cut out for too much electrickery.



 cheeky bugger


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## DSK (31 Dec 2019)

Converting an existing setup to DI2?

Apologies to take this thread in a slightly different direction but, I though as its related to DI2, may as well ask here since there's a lot of experience and knowledge. Is it possible to covert an existing cable setup to DI2 without buying an entire groupset? If so, what is needed? 

Looking at similar model with DI2, it seems the brakes are still cable operated, so those could stay? My cassette/chain/cranks are perfect, so no need to replace those. Is it just the DI2 electronic boxes, front/reat mechanism needed or, is there more?


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2019)

DSK said:


> Converting an existing setup to DI2?
> 
> Apologies to take this thread in a slightly different direction but, I though as its related to DI2, may as well ask here since there's a lot of experience and knowledge. Is it possible to covert an existing cable setup to DI2 without buying an entire groupset? If so, what is needed?
> 
> Looking at similar model with DI2, it seems the brakes are still cable operated, so those could stay? My cassette/chain/cranks are perfect, so no need to replace those. Is it just the DI2 electronic boxes, front/reat mechanism needed or, is there more?



You don't need a full groupset, but you will need:

Shifters
Front Mech
Rear Mech
Battery (internal or external) + relevant mounting hardware and charger
Junction box A (For charging internal battery, changing modes etc)
Junction box B (for connecting cables together around the bottom bracket)
D-Fly wireless unit (optional, only if you want to connect to a computer or upgrade firmware via the phone app)
cables (normally around 6 needed, at around £16(!) each)

You can keep your existing brakes, chainset, bottom bracket, chain, cassette etc as they're identical


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## DSK (31 Dec 2019)

*JhnBssll - *thank you for confirming. I think I'll start looking around to see what bits and pieces I can get on the 2nd hand market


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2019)

DSK said:


> *JhnBssll - *thank you for confirming. I think I'll start looking around to see what bits and pieces I can get on the 2nd hand market



I'm doing the same at the moment for my wifes new bike, ive got a thread about it in the projects section 

Almost all of the different group sets are interchangeable except the original dura ace 7970 so avoid that  If you are 11 speed you wont be able to use 6770 front or rear mechs. You can however use the 6770 shifters with later 6870 or newer mechs to achieve 11 speed 

If you want synchro shifting and/or wireless connectivity you need a specific battery too so watch out for that


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## Yellow Saddle (31 Dec 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> If you want synchro shifting and/or wireless connectivity you need a specific battery too so watch out for that


Can you shed some light on that please? That may be where my current problem lies.


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## DSK (31 Dec 2019)

I thought it was all battery stuff, whats this synchro m'larky?


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Can you shed some light on that please? That may be where my current problem lies.



The early batteries (eg internal BTR-1) dont have the required internal memory to do synchro shifting or wireless firmware updates. Later ones had this added to allow the functions, ie internal battery DN-110. Not sure what the codes for the external batteries are as I dont have any.



DSK said:


> I thought it was all battery stuff, whats this synchro m'larky?



Synchronized shifting is quite clever - when you set it up you tell the Di2 which ratios you have front and rear and it then shifts the front mech for you as and when needed. You just use the buttons to go up or down gears and it does the rest. You can program the four (or six, depending which shifters you have) buttons to be up or down so it's quite flexible.

It also has a mode called Semi Synchronized shifting which is what I use - again you tell it which ratio cassette and chainrings you have but this time you are in control of the front mech. The rear mech shifts up and down as normal with the right hand shifter but when you shift the front with the left hand shifter the rear simultaneously moves up or down a few sprockets to achieve the next ratio. So if you're approaching a climb and you shift the front down to the smaller ring you're not suddenly spinning like crazy as it shifts down a few at the back too - you can then move back up the cassette smoothly as the incline increases  Clever stuff!

The most annoying thing I find about it is it will not let you use the lower two sprockets on the cassette when you're in the small ring at the front. Sometimes it would be useful to be able to override this - I know all about cross chaining etc but sometimes I want to use those combinations and I find it irksome that it stubbonly refuses to let me - I would like an option in the settings somewhere to leave it up to me which gears are allowed


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## Yellow Saddle (31 Dec 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> The early batteries (eg internal BTR-1) dont have the required internal memory to do synchro shifting or wireless firmware updates. Later ones had this added to allow the functions, ie internal battery DN-110. Not sure what the codes for the external batteries are as I dont have any.



Thanks for this, but I want to suck up some more info if you have to give.

I have an older battery, from 2016, I think, paired with a new MT-800 display, MU S-705 motor unit, BL-785 shifters and JC-41 cable junction. The set-up won't wake up and is completely dead. However, I can make the motor unit and Shifters work with another Di2 setup I have, using the same battery. With this process of elimination I've convinced myself that it is either the battery or the junction box that's the problem. It seems as if it is the battery then.

What's your opinion?


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2019)

Could be that the firmware versions arent compatible, have you got everything at the latest version? Have you plugged it in to a PC to check diagnostics? If you are using an internal battery you can use the internal battery charger SM-BCR2 to connect to a PC via USB and use the eTube software to do most of the diagnostics you can do with the more expensive PC link device


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2019)

Thinking about it, if your battery isn't a DN-110 you won't be able to use it with the MT-800 as it has built in D-Fly connectivity (ANT and Bluetooth). If you can check the battery code it would confirm it. The only batteries any D-Fly components will work with are the external battery BM-DN100 or internal battery BT-DN110.

I learnt a lot of this stuff from the Cartlon Bale website here - it's not fully up to date anymore as the latest Dura Ace 91xx bits are missing but it's very handy


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## Yellow Saddle (31 Dec 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> Thinking about it, if your battery isn't a DN-110 you won't be able to use it with the MT-800 as it has built in D-Fly connectivity (ANT and Bluetooth). If you can check the battery code it would confirm it. The only batteries any D-Fly components will work with are the external battery BM-DN100 or internal battery BT-DN110.
> 
> I learnt a lot of this stuff from the Cartlon Bale website here - it's not fully up to date anymore as the latest Dura Ace 91xx bits are missing but it's very handy



Thanks, you've nailed it. My battery is a SM-BTR2. I've just found a compatibility chart and it doesn't feature on there. New battery shopping tomorrow.


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## Elybazza61 (31 Dec 2019)

Upgraded the Helium to Di2 by getting the shifter parts bit by bit on ebay; was lucky as the new DA was out so plenty of the older(but nicer looking!) kit was available.

Double check pics on ebay though as some bits(especially rear mechs) are in worse condition than described.

Di2* can be very addictive;have two bikes with it now.

*Other electronic gear systems are available.


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## PaulSB (1 Jan 2020)

@gmw492 my advice would be to read page 5 of this thread and then make a decision.


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## jay clock (3 Jan 2020)

Love it. But I would not upgrade a bike to it. I would retire the bike to second best and buy a new bike set up with Di2


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> Di2 is a luxury and not a necessity. If you are happy with mechanical, save your money for something else. My Di2 is excellent. But it is my least used bike.



I faced the decision yesterday: decided to buy a new Roubaix and had to choose between a Comp with Ultegra cable gears or an Expert with carbon wheels and Di2 but at a cost of a couple of grand extra. I've tried Di2 and thought it was impressive but doesn't offer me much more than what a well-adjusted cable system offers so I saved my money and went cable. Took the bike home and tested it up the street and spotted straight away that the gears needed a tweak, which I sorted by the road in about ten seconds. Di2 takes this adjustment away from you and you can call me old-fashioned but I enjoy maintaining bikes and have no fear of setting up shifting to work perfectly. 

If I had spent the extra money I would now be sitting here feeling terrible about having wasted family funds on something I didn't really need.

Proper ride today. Woohoo.


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## Blue Hills (5 Jan 2020)

JhnBssll said:


> Could be that the firmware versions arent compatible, have you got everything at the latest version? Have you plugged it in to a PC to check diagnostics? If you are using an internal battery you can use the internal battery charger SM-BCR2 to connect to a PC via USB and use the eTube software to do most of the diagnostics you can do with the more expensive PC link device


Not criticising your post or advice at all but just saying that that para alone is all I need to decide never to go anywhere near the damn thing.


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## JhnBssll (5 Jan 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Not criticising your post or advice at all but just saying that that para alone is all I need to decide never to go anywhere near the damn thing.



Hahaha I understand but it shouldn't put you off. I should stress that these issues are pretty rare, I've only seen a firmware compatibility problem once on 7 installs and that was when I was building from second hand components all sourced from different places. Once it's working it doesnt go wrong  The only maintenance is remembering to charge the battery


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## Mike_P (5 Jan 2020)

A Di2 benefit is, assuming they are all ANT+, the ability for a Garmin etc to show what gear you are in. Always wondered why an ANT+ sensor does not exist for mechanical gearsets.


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## Mark pallister (5 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> I faced the decision yesterday: decided to buy a new Roubaix and had to choose between a Comp with Ultegra cable gears or an Expert with carbon wheels and Di2 but at a cost of a couple of grand extra. I've tried Di2 and thought it was impressive but doesn't offer me much more than what a well-adjusted cable system offers so I saved my money and went cable. Took the bike home and tested it up the street and spotted straight away that the gears needed a tweak, which I sorted by the road in about ten seconds. Di2 takes this adjustment away from you and you can call me old-fashioned but I enjoy maintaining bikes and have no fear of setting up shifting to work perfectly.
> 
> If I had spent the extra money I would now be sitting here feeling terrible about having wasted family funds on something I didn't really need.
> 
> Proper ride today. Woohoo.


Di2 is easily adjusted ,takes no longer than indexing ordinary gears 
once it’s set all it needs is to charge the battery,probably charged mine 4 or 5 times in over 11000 trouble free miles 
also you have the 3 preset shift patterns to choose from and the ability to cycle through your garmin or wahoo ect through the shifters if you have the little Bluetooth dongle fitted


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2020)

I expect switching over to Di2 is like buying a VAG car with a DSG gearbox.... you suddenly realise you'll never go back to the old system.


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## PaulSB (5 Jan 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> also you have the 3 preset shift patterns to choose from and the ability to cycle through your garmin or wahoo ect through the shifters if you have the little Bluetooth dongle fitted



I'm no dinosaur and I might well invest in Di2 the next time I buy a bike.

However I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with the above. Can you explain and what the benefits are?


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## PaulSB (5 Jan 2020)

Mike_P said:


> A Di2 benefit is, assuming they are all ANT+, the ability for a Garmin etc to show what gear you are in. Always wondered why an ANT+ sensor does not exist for mechanical gearsets.


Can I ask why one needs to know what gear one is in?

I work on how my legs feel and shift up and down accordingly. Occasionally I glance down to see which gear I'm in. I don't need to look at my Wahoo to be told which gear I'm in.


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## JhnBssll (5 Jan 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I'm no dinosaur and I might well invest in Di2 the next time I buy a bike.
> 
> However I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with the above. Can you explain and what the benefits are?



The three modes are standard shifting, syncronized shifting and semi synchronized shifting, described below 



JhnBssll said:


> Synchronized shifting is quite clever - when you set it up you tell the Di2 which ratios you have front and rear and it then shifts the front mech for you as and when needed. You just use the buttons to go up or down gears and it does the rest. You can program the four (or six, depending which shifters you have) buttons to be up or down so it's quite flexible.
> 
> It also has a mode called Semi Synchronized shifting which is what I use - again you tell it which ratio cassette and chainrings you have but this time you are in control of the front mech. The rear mech shifts up and down as normal with the right hand shifter but when you shift the front with the left hand shifter the rear simultaneously moves up or down a few sprockets to achieve the next ratio. So if you're approaching a climb and you shift the front down to the smaller ring you're not suddenly spinning like crazy as it shifts down a few at the back too - you can then move back up the cassette smoothly as the incline increases  Clever stuff!





PaulSB said:


> Can I ask why one needs to know what gear one is in?
> 
> I work on how my legs feel and shift up and down accordingly. Occasionally I glance down to see which gear I'm in. I don't need to look at my Wahoo to be told which gear I'm in.



Yeah the gear indication is a bit gimmicky - I find the most useful functions of the ANT wireless link to the cycling computer are the Di2 battery charge status display and the ability to use the top shifter buttons to change screens and zoom in/out on the map page. The buttons can be programmed to do other things too


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## PaulSB (5 Jan 2020)

@JhnBssll thanks for explaining I've got to grips with that now. None of the people I ride with who use Di2 have ever spoken about such features.


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## JhnBssll (5 Jan 2020)

They may not have it - these features are a fairly recent addition


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## Globalti (6 Jan 2020)

It's amazing that riders using all this screen stuff actually have time to look around at the scenery. I'm reminded of my neighbour who sets up her phone with Google Maps running in line of sight even when doing her familiar commute to work.


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## Mark pallister (6 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> I expect switching over to Di2 is like buying a VAG car with a DSG gearbox.... you suddenly realise you'll never go back to the old system.


Exactly,you just think why didn’t I do this years ago


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## Mark pallister (6 Jan 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Can I ask why one needs to know what gear one is in?
> 
> I work on how my legs feel and shift up and down accordingly. Occasionally I glance down to see which gear I'm in. I don't need to look at my Wahoo to be told which gear I'm in.


You won’t need to glance down 
You can just glance at your computer instead


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## Mike_P (6 Jan 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Can I ask why one needs to know what gear one is in?


Strikes me as being useful climbing to know just how many gears are left. Yes you can look, more back than down for the rear, but on a few occasions I have not been able to do to that safely due navigating a minefield of potholes.


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## PaulSB (6 Jan 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Strikes me as being useful climbing to know just how many gears are left. Yes you can look, more back than down for the rear, but on a few occasions I have not been able to do to that safely due navigating a minefield of potholes.


It's interesting to read of the benefits and positives which people enjoy. I wasn't aware of all these "add ons" and can see why people enjoy them.

All the talk I've heard of Di2 is the smooth change and automatic trimming which sounds great to me. I also know a few who have been very pissed off to run out of charge unexpectedly. I guess that's their fault.

As I said earlier next time I buy a bike I'd consider it but all the add ons wouldn't be a game changer or influence as I don't need them. I can see the fun though - I love unecessary gadgets in my car!!


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## DSK (7 Jan 2020)

Had I known that the DI2 was somewhat better from a maintenance perspective, for me anyway, I'd have gone for a DI2 model. I think next bike, will definitely have to give DI2 a strong consideration.

I was looking at the DI2 groupsets new and what they cost on the used market. For the hassle, if I decide to go DI2 on my current bike which, I never imagine selling, I'd probably just get a new groupset as used is very expensive and unless you know it inside/out, you may end up spending more on bits and pieces.


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## Mark pallister (7 Jan 2020)

DSK said:


> Had I known that the DI2 was somewhat better from a maintenance perspective, for me anyway, I'd have gone for a DI2 model. I think next bike, will definitely have to give DI2 a strong consideration.
> 
> I was looking at the DI2 groupsets new and what they cost on the used market. For the hassle, if I decide to go DI2 on my current bike which, I never imagine selling, I'd probably just get a new groupset as used is very expensive and unless you know it inside/out, you may end up spending more on bits and pieces.


I would think it would be a right pita if the frames not specifically designed for it


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## Ridgeway (12 Jan 2020)

I switched mid last year after several years of umming and ahing, even decided not to take it as an option on my previous bike. However after riding with a few people end of 2018 and early 2019 i figured i was missing out. So my last bike had to have Di2 and it has 

What i like:

Automatic trimming 
Easy whilst riding ability to adjust gears, 1 long press to get into adjustment mode, then a click or 2 and perfectly tuned gears without having even got off the bike
Manual, semi-auto and full auto modes (i like semi-auto, not sure of it's correct name)
Easier gear changes, ie when i'm cornering i would never with mechanical gearing change gear as i'd need to change my grip, with Di2 (or other) i can click down a gear as i'm coming out of a corner
Continuous shifting: ie hold the shifter over and change several gears in one hit
Battery level is on my Wahoo unit
Gear number indicator can also be on your cycling computer (i haven't bothered with that)
Easy to switch what the shifters do (you need e-tube to do that) i switched my front derailleur shifter to work the opposite way to the factory setting, it just made more sense in my head
Very happy with it so far, easy to charge, reliable and makes cool noise, what more could any gadget freak want


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## derrick (12 Jan 2020)

I tried the synchronised shifting but did not like it. Could have played around a bit more with it. But normal mode is so much better. Cant really see any benefits for synchronised or semi synchronised.


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## Mark pallister (13 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> I tried the synchronised shifting but did not like it. Could have played around a bit more with it. But normal mode is so much better. Cant really see any benefits for synchronised or semi synchronised.


I use semi sycro so when I change from big to small on the front it automatically shifts down two on the rear so I don’t spin
i find it very useful


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## Ridgeway (13 Jan 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> I use semi sycro so when I change from big to small on the front it automatically shifts down two on the rear so I don’t spin
> i find it very useful



Same here.

Tried full synchro but on a couple of occasions when changing down on the front cassette as i entered a climb it would of course compensate by kindly kicking down a few cogs on the back as i entered some nice 10%.....

Semi seems pretty good and avoids this.

I forgot to add that with Di2 and e-tube you can program certain accessory features on the hidden buttons on the hoods, page changing on your computer, switching on/off enabled lights etc.


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## Yellow Saddle (13 Jan 2020)

I have Di2 with an Alfine hub and drop-bar levers. There is no front derailer. Unfortunately you cannot buy a left lever without switches and you can't (not on E-Tube project for smartphones, in anyway) configure it so that the gears can be changed from any side.

Those two superflous switches are burning in my mind. Maybe I should manually connect them to two different electronic hoooters or something.


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## Ridgeway (13 Jan 2020)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Those two superflous switches are burning in my mind. Maybe I should manually connect them to two different electronic hoooters or something.



Must admit that i have no idea what to do with mine either

cycle bell app on my phone trigged by one of them, that would be useful.

2nd button for an Uber when you run out of inner tubes


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## Yellow Saddle (13 Jan 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> Must admit that i have no idea what to do with mine either
> 
> cycle bell app on my phone trigged by one of them, that would be useful.
> 
> 2nd button for an Uber when you run out of inner tubes


So you have the same problem/setup?

Have you managed to find out if the professional E-Tube system can change that?


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## Ridgeway (13 Jan 2020)

I have a standard Shimano front and rear derailleur set up but i didn't buy Di2 wireless add on (another £70), i asked my LBS to change a couple of things last time it went in for a service but i realised that if i wanted to play around with e-tube features that i also need the wireless adaptor, perhaps once i figure out why i'd need it and what i could do with those buttons


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## JhnBssll (13 Jan 2020)

If you have an internal battery, the standard charger can be used to connect to a PC running the free eTube software to make most of the changes and updates that the more expensive PC link device can do. That's what I use to tweak settings


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## tom73 (13 Jan 2020)

Have I got this right the software is not compatible with Mac OS so no hardwire option? 
Only way to program / update things via on apple device is bluetooth using a iPhone / iPad app?


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## JhnBssll (13 Jan 2020)

tom73 said:


> Have I got this right the software is not compatible with Mac OS so no hardwire option?
> Only way to program / update things via on apple device is bluetooth using a iPhone / iPad app?



Yeah I think that's the case, the eTube software is only available for PC.


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## Yellow Saddle (13 Jan 2020)

tom73 said:


> Have I got this right the software is not compatible with Mac OS so no hardwire option?
> Only way to program / update things via on apple device is bluetooth using a iPhone / iPad app?



There is a hardwire option, but it is a professional product that runs on PC. It is quite expensive. I'm not sure if it is available on Apple, but I have used the PC version when I was still in the trade.


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## gmw492 (14 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> If I had spent the extra money I would now be sitting here feeling terrible about having wasted family funds on something I didn't really need.


Yes fully understand that’s why I never bothered to look at Di2 but it is only £100 more in the sale for the same bike as Ultegra mechanical model £500 off the Di2


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## gmw492 (14 Jan 2020)

The D-fly unit looks good when set up with the Garmin too another reason why it looks appealing, full control over your Garmin just another plus for a better cycling experience with Di2, comments are really good thanks guys lots of details


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## Blue Hills (14 Jan 2020)

gmw492 said:


> Yes fully understand that’s why I never bothered to look at Di2 but it is only £100 more in the sale for the same bike as Ultegra mechanical model £500 off the Di2


mm - but could it be it's a cunning plan to suck you in? - far more than £100 will be heading from you I reckon once you have snorted the free powder.
sorry folks - am sure it's very clever but I don't do the sort of riding which needs it - probably shouldn't have replied but been watching this thread with a certain bemusement.
enjoy your rides folks on whatever.


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## Globalti (14 Jan 2020)

Reading some of the stuff on here I'm beginning to suspect it's a technical nightmare to get it set up right. This seems to go against the grain of cycling as a simple, low-tech sport so I'll stick with cables.


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## Blue Hills (14 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> Reading some of the stuff on here I'm beginning to suspect it's a technical nightmare to get it set up right. This seems to go against the grain of cycling as a simple, low-tech sport so I'll stick with cables.


can't help but reply.
One thing I'm wondering after all the more involved tech stuff upthread is whether there is also an "end of life" issue with some of this stuff?
I am sort of assuming that there are software updates. 
If you don't like an update or it causes issues (not unknown) can you roll back to a previous version?
Even if there is a "factory" reset this is not necessarily the same thing.

Was amused by the case upthread where the damn thing seemed to "synchro" up the gears at the back when you changed down at the front, not knowing that you had done that because there was a bloody great hill in front of you. I did learn that this could be countered by selecting another mode though.
Next step is for it to read the terrain ahead from gps data so that it can see the hill?


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## tom73 (14 Jan 2020)

No different to say most smart phone software. 
at some point if not already if you look hard enough they will be a work around. 
I take it it's not open source ?


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## Blue Hills (14 Jan 2020)

tom73 said:


> No different to say most smart phone software.


that's hardly reassuring is it?


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## JhnBssll (14 Jan 2020)

Fear not, setup is easier than mechanical and my experience to date is that it is at least as reliable.

I can completely understand people being nervous of it, and people not wanting it. But for those that are interested in the concept of owning a Di2 equipped bike I would wholeheartedly recommend it


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## Mark pallister (14 Jan 2020)

I think I’ve updated once in over two years ,if you don’t bother it still works fine 
other than that no need to touch it 
if it comes set up ready to ride as it should you won’t have any problems 
like it or not it’s the future ,as prices drop more people will upgrade 
there will always be haters as with anything new or different 
some people just don’t like change


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## tom73 (14 Jan 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> that's hardly reassuring is it?



Depends which one you use


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jan 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> some people just don’t like change


And a percentage of those resent others having the opportunity to change.


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## Globalti (14 Jan 2020)

As I wrote elsewhere I've tried Shimano, SRAM and Campag electronic shifting during Cyclist track days and I thought they were all magnificent. It's just that I can't justify spending an extra £1000 on a system I probably can't repair or will be expensive to repair in case of damage, weighs more than a cable system and - presumably - will need a new battery in a few years. A well-maintained cable system does everything an electronic system can do and by gauging the amount of lever I'm needing to push before it triggers a shift I can sense when the system needs adjustment.


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## Yellow Saddle (14 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> Reading some of the stuff on here I'm beginning to suspect it's a technical nightmare to get it set up right. This seems to go against the grain of cycling as a simple, low-tech sport so I'll stick with cables.



Naaah, it's a doddle to set up. Admittedly you have read about some snags, particularly with more exotic setups like mine, but that's present in mechanical systems too. The average set-up is a non-issue. It works out of the box.

The sophistication of the system is hidden by its simplicity. It works on a CAN bus (Controller Access Network). This reduces the number of wires required since a single cable link can go from component to component. The wire is only 3mm thick and very flexible. It can be made invisible on your bike, especially if you have a Di2 frame or, you modify your frame with a port or two.

How do you set it up? You bolt on all your components as usual, install a battery either in the seatpost or at the water bottle and, connect the two, three or four wires. It works immediately and out of the box. Only when you want to change the standard functions, do you have to bother with software. For instance, if you want to swap which buttons do what or, want to try (you don't have to) some sort of fancy intelligent shifting. 

Even then it is easy. It can connect to your smartphone via Bluetooth LE (Low Energy) and from there you can do some stuff - not endless nonsense, but useful things. Shimano's software is bug-free and super well thought out. 

The system can integrate with ANT+ devices so that you can have all your data and readings on one device. If you don't want comms, you can buy a cheaper junction box. 

Mountain bikers can go further and connect their compatible suspension to the system and "tune" it, if tuning is your thing.
Road bikers can add extra shift switches wherever they want them. On the top of the bars, on the bar ends - the choice is endless. 

Your bike will require charging two, maybe three times a season. Charging cycles are quoted in kilometers (2000 is typical) but that is of course nonsense. If you change gears a million times, then battery life will be shorter. When you theoretically run out of power on a ride, the system shuts down non-essential functions first, before stranding you in a single gear. Stage racers don't have to charge between stages. Compare that to stage races where you have to change cables, particularly on MTB races. I have done such races where a cable service was required every single night. I could have slept during those hours instead of fiddling with dirty cables.

To me, the biggest advantage is getting rid of gear shifter cables and cleaning up the frame. Second advantage is zero adjustment. Adjusting cable derailers isn't a big deal if you know how, but zero adjusting is just better.

Lastly, it comes in mechanical and hydraulic brake version. This means you can be a retro grouch and be electronic or, go full hog and get with the program, disc brakes and all.

Bring me that fancy new Spez of yours and I'll drill it for Di2.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jan 2020)

Not forgetting that wires will soon be old hat. SRAM are wireless as is the new FSA gear system and you can bet your bottom dollar that Campag and Shimano are in advanced stages of development with their own.

Once R&D costs are recouped and electronic gears start to become the norm (Which they will, driven by the younger generation of cyclists who won't be cluttered with the "Cables always worked for me so why change" mindset) prices will plummet as they have done with all technology. Electronics are cheap as chips to mass produce.

When STI/Ergo first appeared prices were eye watering, now they are standard even on what most would dismiss as BSO's.


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## Blue Hills (14 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> , weighs more than a cable system


Interesting - if true (not saying it isn't) that's going to put some folks in a quandary?


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## Blue Hills (14 Jan 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Once R&D costs are recouped and electronic gears start to become the norm



mm - more and more popular very probably - not sure I can see them becoming the "norm" for all sorts of reasons - cycling is a broad church.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jan 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> mm - more and more popular very probably - not sure I can see them becoming the "norm" for all sorts of reasons - cycling is a broad church.


Similar sentiments were expressed about everything from indexing onwards.


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## Mike_P (14 Jan 2020)

Any interference issues with wireless ones? Last year my Garmin went briefly crazy for a while which I took to be a low battery but it was okay and then I realised another cyclist had been behind me / alongside / just in front when the Garmin was having its fit.


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## Mark pallister (14 Jan 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Any interference issues with wireless ones? Last year my Garmin went briefly crazy for a while which I took to be a low battery but it was okay and then I realised another cyclist had been behind me / alongside / just in front when the Garmin was having its fit.


no ,not sure how but I think it uses ant private ,I have two bikes with it and they have separate connections with my wahoo roam and I ride with several people who have it on there bikes and never a problem


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## Mark pallister (14 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> As I wrote elsewhere I've tried Shimano, SRAM and Campag electronic shifting during Cyclist track days and I thought they were all magnificent. It's just that I can't justify spending an extra £1000 on a system I probably can't repair or will be expensive to repair in case of damage, weighs more than a cable system and - presumably - will need a new battery in a few years. A well-maintained cable system does everything an electronic system can do and by gauging the amount of lever I'm needing to push before it triggers a shift I can sense when the system needs adjustment.


Once fitted it should not need any maintenance ,no cables to stretch as for the battery depends on use I would think,ive a bike with over 12k miles on and will have been charged no more 6 times so I would think there’s a good few years left in it yet
as you say if you’ve tried it you can’t really compare it with cable type it’s a totally different beast


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## Algarvecycling (20 Jan 2020)

I have SRAM Red etap on my road bike and while it has been flawless, I'm not sure I notice anything significantly advantageous over mechanical apart from fewer cables - more cosmetic than anything else to me - in terms of function. 

What I do find better, is the gear display on my Garmin. I like being able to see what gear I'm in on the computer without looking down further to see for myself. It seems trivial, but I miss it when on my MTB where it is Shimano mechanical. It is a quicker double-check just before I launch into a sprint, for example.


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## Inspector Monkfish (22 Jan 2020)

Globalti said:


> ...A well-maintained cable system does everything an electronic system can do...



That's just not true. With Di2 you can automatically shift the rear cassette one or two sprockets when changing the front ring, you can shift multiple gears by holding down the lever, you can make adjustments mid ride without stopping pedalling, and with the addition of the wireless unit you can see what gear you are in without taking your eyes off the road and even control a bike computer from the hoods. None of that can be done with a cable system no matter how well maintained it is.


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## addictfreak (24 Jan 2020)

Took the plunge into Di2 today, pick up my new Scott Addict RC next week. Everyone I know who rides Di2 absolutely love it.


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## pawl (25 Jan 2020)

I very rarely look what gear I’m in.If I am spinning to fast I go up a gear.If I am peddling to slowly I change down a gear.


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## BianchiVirgin (29 Apr 2020)

Here's a useful website for anyone who wants to browse. 

https://di2center.com/


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> That's just not true. With Di2 you can automatically shift the rear cassette one or two sprockets when changing the front ring, you can shift multiple gears by holding down the lever, you can make adjustments mid ride without stopping pedalling, and with the addition of the wireless unit you can see what gear you are in without taking your eyes off the road and even control a bike computer from the hoods. None of that can be done with a cable system no matter how well maintained it is.



All the things you describe can be done with cable shifting apart from auto shifting the rear when you change rings at the front.


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## keithmac (29 Apr 2020)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I have Di2 with an Alfine hub and drop-bar levers. There is no front derailer. Unfortunately you cannot buy a left lever without switches and you can't (not on E-Tube project for smartphones, in anyway) configure it so that the gears can be changed from any side.
> 
> Those two superflous switches are burning in my mind. Maybe I should manually connect them to two different electronic hoooters or something.



I fancy an Alfine Hub with Di2 and Gates Carbon Drive on my next work commuter, won't be for a few years yet though!.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> All the things you describe can be done with cable shifting apart from auto shifting the rear when you change rings at the front.


All the things you can do on any modern bike can be done on a 1950s butchers bike.

Just not as well.


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## Drago (29 Apr 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> All the things you can do on any modern bike can be done on a 1950s butchers bike.
> 
> Just not as well.


Imdunno. Delivering boxes of sausages is much easier on a butchers bike, and those centre stands were just de rigueur.


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## Inspector Monkfish (29 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> All the things you describe can be done with cable shifting apart from auto shifting the rear when you change rings at the front.



Sorry but how are you indexing your cable gears mid ride whilst still pedalling? Or seeing what gear you are in without looking back? Or using the shift levers to control your bike computer?


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Sorry but how are you indexing your cable gears mid ride whilst still pedalling? Or seeing what gear you are in without looking back? Or using the shift levers to control your bike computer?



It’s called bar end shifters. I can see the gear by the lever position. All you need to know with gears are do I have more to shift up to, do I have more to shift down to.

What do you mean by indexing gears whilst pedalling? How were you controlling your bike computer? Only I thing I saw you mention was relying on the bike computer to display gear, but clearly I don’t need that as I can see by lever position.


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## faster (29 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Sorry but how are you indexing your cable gears mid ride whilst still pedalling?



With the adjusters on the downtube?

That's how I do it anyway.


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## Inspector Monkfish (29 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s called bar end shifters. I can see the gear by the lever position. All you need to know with gears are do I have more to shift up to, do I have more to shift down to.
> 
> What do you mean by indexing gears whilst pedalling? How were you controlling your bike computer? Only I thing I saw you mention was relying on the bike computer to display gear, but clearly I don’t need that as I can see by lever position.



The original question related to upgrading from mechanical ultegra to di2 so made an assumption that the OP was using sti levers and not bar end shifters so wouldn't be able to see the gear without looking. Also by indexing gears whilst pedalling I mean exactly that, with a mechanical setup if the shifting is out you have to stop and tweak the barrel adjuster, with di2 you can make adjustments whilst still riding. My original post was in reply to a message that mechanical can do everything di2 can and I made the point that it is possible to control a Garmin or Wahoo with the buttons on top of the shifters, you can't do that with any cable set up.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> The original question related to upgrading from mechanical ultegra to di2 so made an assumption that the OP was using sti levers and not bar end shifters so wouldn't be able to see the gear without looking. Also by indexing gears whilst pedalling I mean exactly that, with a mechanical setup if the shifting is out you have to stop and tweak the barrel adjuster, with di2 you can make adjustments whilst still riding. My original post was in reply to a message that mechanical can do everything di2 can and I made the point that it is possible to control a Garmin or Wahoo with the buttons on top of the shifters, you can't do that with any cable set up.



I run my shifters in friction mode, indexing is never out as they don’t need to be indexed. So I never need to stop to fettle any inferior indexing. So the only additional thing DI2 is offering is one finger simultaneous shifts.

P.S. I can run my cable shifters with anything from 5 speed to 10 speed (haven’t tried 11/12). Can your DI2 do that?


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## Mike_P (29 Apr 2020)

Occurred to me that if you are lucky you might find a decent di2 equipped second hand bike that could be robbed of its di2 parts and sold on fitted with your analogue system.Theres a Scott Foil 15 54cm on eBay for collection on Birkenhead for £1150 or best offer if that's near anyone which could make a pretty cheap di2 source once the bike is sold on.


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## Inspector Monkfish (29 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I run my shifters in friction mode, indexing is never out as they don’t need to be indexed. So I never need to stop to fettle any inferior indexing. So the only additional thing DI2 is offering is one finger simultaneous shifts.
> 
> P.S. I can run my cable shifters with anything from 5 speed to 10 speed (haven’t tried 11/12). Can your DI2 do that?



You seem to be missing the point that the original question was related to choosing di2 or mechanical ultegra, and I was pointing out all the benefits of di2. So your index shifters, 5 speed or any other antiquated shifting methods are completely irrelevant to the original post and my subsequent reply


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> You seem to be missing the point that the original question was related to choosing di2 or mechanical ultegra, and I was pointing out all the benefits of di2. So your index shifters, 5 speed or any other antiquated shifting methods are completely irrelevant to the original post and my subsequent reply



Nonsense, shows superior functionality and features to what you prefer.


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## Inspector Monkfish (29 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Nonsense, shows superior functionality and features to what you prefer.



Or alternatively an answer to the actual question that was asked without trying to crowbar in an argument about how everything was better in the olden days.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Apr 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Or alternatively an answer to the actual question that was asked without trying to crowbar in an argument about how everything was better in the olden days.



Well if you hadn’t tried to claim cable shifting can’t do lots of things when it can we wouldn’t be here would we? No crowbar needed! 😂Also we are not talking about the olden days, we are are talking right now, this day. We are talking current technology. DI2 is just one of many options this day and it has many disadvantages as well as advantages.


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