# BMJ Journal Poll on helmets



## dellzeqq (25 Jul 2011)

the BMJ journal is having yet another 'let's make helmets compulsory' poll

http://www.bmj. com/

it's a running joke, but I'm getting tired of it

fgodlee@bmj.com, jsmith@bmj.com, tdelamothe@bmj.com, tgroves@bmj.com, tjackson@bmj.com, dpayne@bmj.com, gjones@bmj.com, scook@bmj.com, hmacdonald@bmj.com, tgroves@bmj.com, aburke@bmj.com, kfister@bmj.com, eloder@bmj.com, cmartyn@bmj.com, kpatrick@bmj.com, groggla@bmj.com, atonks@bmj.com, awalker@bmj.com, wweber@bmj.com, dmacauley@bmj.com, aferriman@bmj.com, zkmietowicz@bmj.com, dcohen@bmj.com, kpatrick@bmj.com, mchew@bmj.com, trichards@bmj.com, sdavies@bmj.com, tjackson@bmj.com, rcoombes@bmj.com, sschroter@bmj.com, plapsley@bmj.com, dpayne@bmj.com, btwisselmann@bmj.com, jdobson@bmj.com, ldillner@bmj.com, smalik@bmj.com, rhurley@bmj.com, jwalker@bmj.com, adichiara@bmj.com, vfletcher@bmj.com, lbanham@bmj.com, jannis@bmj.com, mbutler@bmj.com, scarter@bmj.com, mcooter@bmj.com, gcotton@bmj.com, cgriffith@bmj.com, epayne@bmj.com, ksharrock@bmj.com, bsquire@bmj.com, jthompson@bmj.com, aberger@bmj.com, hmarcovitch@bmjgroup.com, dkamerow@yahoo.com, jburrell@bmj.com, eking@bmj.com, sminns@bmj.com, jmayor@bmj.com, edavies@bmj.com, hjaques@bmj.com, studenteditor@bmj.com, are the contact e-mail addresses for the BMJ. Feel free to put them straight. 

For what it's worth, this is my draft e-mail

You think it's a running joke. I think you're bunch of chinless twats, with not enough to do. You don't give a flying **** at a rolling doughnut that 8000 people die of falls in the home, you neither know nor care that a simple change in the Building Regulations would glass injuries by half, (cutting plastic surgery department time dramatically), you don't give a monkeys about hospital borne infections and you're too scared to think that most GPs are halfwits that couldn't diagnose their way out of a ****ing paper bag. Your readers lead a life of pampered luxury at the taxpayer's expense, dispensing solecisms that would look lightweight in a Christmas cracker and you have nothing better to do than take your 'I'm scared of cyclists' problem for a walk in your sad little excuse for a journal.

Don't, please, send me e-mails from your home addresses telling me that you ride a bike to work, because I'm not ****ing interested. You publish this shoot, so you take the abuse. **** off.

Simon Legg


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## zimzum42 (25 Jul 2011)

Do you not reckon you could beef it up a bit, maybe throw in some swears?


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## dellzeqq (25 Jul 2011)

zimzum42 said:


> Do you not reckon you could beef it up a bit, maybe throw in some swears?


I'll give it a go...........


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## ianrauk (25 Jul 2011)

Have they upset you in some way Simon?


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## ianrauk (25 Jul 2011)

I have just voted against it on the poll anyway


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## pshore (25 Jul 2011)

It's normal for decision makers to ask people their opinions ...

... and if you don't like the answer, ask again.


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## 4F (25 Jul 2011)

Quality rant


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## benb (25 Jul 2011)

I wouldn't worry:

a) The BMJ are hardly influential enough to affect a change in public policy
b) The poll is currently running at 68% No


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## benb (25 Jul 2011)

User said:


> Oh yes they (the BMA - the BMJ is their journal) are.



I disagree. They are certainly influential in shaping GP and hospital policy, but they often bang on at the government to introduce some legislation or other (some of it even backed up by proper evidence!) and I don't think they have had much success.


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## benb (25 Jul 2011)

User said:


> Oh - but they have. When you start to look closely at health care policy in the UK, you can see how much of it is influenced by the BMA. Each time a new directive from the Department of Health lands on my desk, you can usually see the BMA's fingerprints all over it.
> 
> Unfortunately, no government has had the balls to take on the BMA. Margaret Thatcher came close to it but left office before she had a chance to give them a kicking.



Point taken. I really can't see them having success in this area though, as it's only tangentially a healthcare issue.


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## dellzeqq (25 Jul 2011)

4F said:


> Quality rant


thankyou!


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## threebikesmcginty (25 Jul 2011)

No editing required, 'send'


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## mcshroom (25 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477055"]
Yeah, but my mate fell off and his head would have split into a million tiny pieces if he hadn't been wearing a helmet, you should see the crack in it.
[/quote]

The helmet held his cracked head together?


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## JonnyBlade (25 Jul 2011)

I'd make them compulsory but that's just my opinion


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## ufkacbln (25 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477055"]
Yeah, but my mate fell off and his head would have split into a million tiny pieces if he hadn't been wearing a helmet, you should see the crack in it.
[/quote]

I have this image of a helmet with all the vents stuffed with white powder!


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## Red Light (25 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477055"]
Yeah, but my mate fell off and his head would have split into a million tiny pieces if he hadn't been wearing a helmet, you should see the crack in it.
[/quote]


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## Red Light (25 Jul 2011)

User said:


> Oh yes they (the BMA - the BMJ is their journal) are.



Unfortunately most people including many politicians don't realise they are not a medical body but a doctors' Trade Union.


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## Red Light (25 Jul 2011)

pshore said:


> It's normal for decision makers to ask people their opinions ...
> 
> ... and if you don't like the answer, ask again.



And then stop when you get the answer you want. 

I can see this revolutionary departure from evidence based medicine implemented by the BMJ as having far reaching implications. We no longer need expensive clinical drug trials, just a vox pop poll on whether a new drug should be allowed or not.


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## dellzeqq (26 Jul 2011)

2nd draft

You think it's a running joke. I think you're bunch of chinless twats, with not enough to do. You don't give a flying **** at a rolling doughnut that 8000 people die of falls in the home, you neither know nor care that a simple change in the Building Regulations would glass injuries by half, you don't give a monkeys about hospital borne infections and you're too scared to think that all too many GPs are halfwits who couldn't diagnose their way out of a ****ing paper bag. Your readers lead a life of pampered luxury at the taxpayer's expense, dispensing solecisms that would look lightweight in a Christmas cracker and you have nothing better to do than take your 'I'm scared of cyclists' problem for a walk in your sad little excuse for a journal. Statins for cash? Not bothered. Contraceptive implants. You don't give a toss. MRSA? Can't even be troubled to wash your hands. But when it comes to telling people what to do, you're like a ****ing rash. Half a glass of Pinot a day, ladies, or you'll go mental. Shift the weight, porky, or sing for your hip op. Give up fags or get the **** out of my surgery.

Don't, please, send me e-mails from your home addresses telling me that you ride a bike to work, because I'm not ****ing interested. You publish this shoot, so you take the heat. **** off.


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2011)

There's a 'cut' missing before glass. Perhaps a to$$ers before the final full stop and if you can lob in something about the GMC being a toothless bunch of cronies which need replacing by a watchdog .........


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2011)

User said:


> Nowt wrong with the GMC. They're used as a convenient whipping boy by many who don;t understand what their powers are...



Oh, I know what they are.


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## Richard Mann (26 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477055"]
Yeah, but my mate fell off and his head would have split into a million tiny pieces if he hadn't been wearing a helmet, you should see the crack in it.
[/quote]

What was he (or she) doing that led to them falling off? It's a serious point - the reason for compulsion is that people think that "all cycling is dangerous". It isn't.

I think we need to deflect the call for compulsion into consideration of the activities that create the problems:

So make it illegal to cycle at more than 20mph without a helmet (oh sorry officer, was I really doing more than 20...?). And illegal to drive at more than 20mph within 1.5m of a cyclist or pedestrian.


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## cycleruk (26 Jul 2011)

sorry for a really stupid question but what are the arguments for and against wearing crash helmets


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## Fab Foodie (26 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477072"]
I wish I was in time to get one of those bike stickers. 

The ones that said "RIDE A F***ING BIKE."

Can we make/order some more?





[/quote]

theclaud has one on her bike, I'd never seen one before, absolutely fab. Mickle had something to do with them I understand. I'd be in for a couple.


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## Red Light (26 Jul 2011)

Richard Mann said:


> So make it illegal to cycle at more than 20mph without a helmet (oh sorry officer, was I really doing more than 20...?).



What a sensible suggestion make it mandatory to wear a helmet designed for no more than 12.5mph only if you are riding more than 20mph.


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2011)

Here it f******g is


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## Fab Foodie (26 Jul 2011)

[QUOTE 1477075"]
Yes. Claud was showing it off on the Bognor ride. Looked well good. Reckon we should chase it up.
[/quote]

Not being a master of the written word, I did wonder whether it should be 'F***ing ride a bike' as opposed to 'Ride a F***ing bike' please could somebody put me out of my misery on the subtle difference ....


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## Fab Foodie (26 Jul 2011)

Crackle said:


> Here it f******g is



BT no letty me look at it!


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## Crackle (26 Jul 2011)

Fab Foodie said:


> BT no letty me look at it!



Six stickers 3 dollars.


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## JonnyBlade (26 Jul 2011)

cycleruk said:


> sorry for a really stupid question but what are the arguments for and against wearing crash helmets



I hurts your head more if you fall on it when not wearing a helmet


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## Red Light (26 Jul 2011)

Is this how you ride your f***ing bike? 

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwYbrrKkdGw[/media]


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## HJ (26 Jul 2011)

This is rather an emotive issue, but it is an area where actually looking at the evidence would help, this blog post on the BMA, the BMJ, and bicycle helmet policy makes some good points and is worth reading.


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## JonnyBlade (26 Jul 2011)

1477082 said:


> Unless it twists your head round more than it would have done without one.



When was the last time you went cycling and break dancing at the same time 

3 accidents 3 broken helmets 1 concussion 0 broken heads. I for one am a believer but whilst the choice is open to option, your choice to wear one is your choice. 

Here's to safe cycling and long life


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## Red Light (26 Jul 2011)

JonnyBlade said:


> 3 accidents 3 broken helmets 1 concussion 0 broken heads. I for one am a believer but whilst the choice is open to option, your choice to wear one is your choice.



Ooohhh goodie......can we trade anecdotes? Four accidents, no helmets to break, 0 concussions, 0 broken heads. I seem to be doing better than you anecdotally.


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## darth vadar (27 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> the BMJ journal is having yet another 'let's make helmets compulsory' poll
> 
> http://www.bmj. com/
> 
> ...




Are you proud of yourself with that reply ?

What an idiot.


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## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

Panic over - they're on to worrying about their status being eroded now.


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## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

darth vadar said:


> Are you proud of yourself with that reply ?
> 
> What an idiot.



IIRC Darth Vadar was at least consistent in that he wore his helmet all the time, not just when cycling.


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## dellzeqq (27 Jul 2011)

Bicycle helmets. You think it's a running joke. I think you're bunch of chinless twats, with not enough to do. You don't give a flying **** at a rolling doughnut that 8000 people die of falls in the home, you neither know nor care that a simple change in the Building Regulations would cut glass injuries by half, you don't give a monkeys about hospital borne infections and you're too scared to think that all too many GPs are halfwits who couldn't diagnose their way out of a ****ing paper bag. Your readers lead a life of pampered luxury at the taxpayer's expense, dispensing solecisms that would look lightweight in a Christmas cracker and you have nothing better to do than take your 'I'm scared of cyclists' problem for a walk in your sad little excuse for a journal. 

Statins for cash? Not bothered. Contraceptive implants? You don't give a toss. MRSA? Can't even be troubled to wash your hands. But when it comes to telling people what to do, you're like a ****ing rash. Half a glass of Pinot a day, ladies, or you'll go mental. Shift the weight, porky, or sing for your hip op. Give up fags or get the **** out of my surgery. 

As for offering a service - you're having a ****ing tin bath. Appointment sometime this week? Go to A+E. Blood tests? No chance. Home visits? What do you think my name is, Harold ****ing Shipman?

Don't, please, send me e-mails from your home addresses telling me that you ride a bike to work, because I'm not ****ing interested. You publish this shoot, so you take the heat. **** off.


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## Ravenbait (27 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Don't, please, send me e-mails from your home addresses telling me that you ride a bike to work, because I'm not ****ing interested. You publish this shoot, so you take the heat. **** off.



I think it's still lacking in the vitriol department. Is this really a subject deserving of such impeccable manners?

Sam


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## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

Its clearly great irony. After all look at the opening line:



> Bicycle helmets. You think it's a running joke.


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## theclaud (27 Jul 2011)

Have you sent it yet, then, DZ, or is it still a work in progress?


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## MrHappyCyclist (27 Jul 2011)

1477102 said:


> Let's hope the latter, seeing as it is way to wishy washy.


Yes, why does he always seem to sit on the fence with these issues.


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## JonnyBlade (27 Jul 2011)

Red Light said:


> Ooohhh goodie......can we trade anecdotes? Four accidents, no helmets to break, 0 concussions, 0 broken heads. I seem to be doing better than you anecdotally.



Far better. You obviously land better than I do  Incidentally, what parts did you land on


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## downfader (28 Jul 2011)

I have just written this on their blog webpage (via disqus, so lets hope they review it and put it up)



> Cycle helmets, as I so often state, are not the issue or the solution to the issue. The issue is human behaviour that leads to collision or fall, deal with that and we deal with the problem.
> 
> Cyclists represent 2% of all traffic according to the DfT. Head and brain injuries of cyclist related origin are around 2%. Thats an NHS stat iirc. Another NHS stat says that 65% of all head and brain injury are drink related. So on this basis you have to ask where is the actual risk? It is no good trying to "save just one life!" Its the majority you have to think about.
> 
> ...



Where is the poll? And do they accept letters, I'd like to formalise my criticism.


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## threebikesmcginty (28 Jul 2011)

Has he sent the ****er to those ****s yet?


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## Andy_R (28 Jul 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> Yes, why does he always seem to sit on the fence with these issues.



Well if he's going to sit on the fence.......he better be wearing a helmet; he might fall off and smash his head into a million tiny pieces!


disclaimer: fence sitting is so much more dangerous than cycling


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## srw (29 Jul 2011)

https://www.cyclechat.net/

You don't have a Telegraph journalist among your friends, by any chance Dellers?


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## srw (29 Jul 2011)

And in the Standard. Congrats to someone for a publicity coup


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## Zoiders (29 Jul 2011)

Of course the BMJ are going to bandy this tosh about - it's about selling their profession as something romantic and dashing, as if every doctor spends his or her working day up to their elbows in blood in an A&E department desperately racing against time to peice together broken cyclists.

Of course thats rubbish, it's like Firefighters, most are never really going to encounter the Towering Inferno but it pays for them to put forward that impression.


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## Red Light (29 Jul 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Of course the BMJ are going to bandy this tosh about - it's about selling their profession as something romantic and dashing, as if every doctor spends his or her working day up to their elbows in blood in an A&E department desperately racing against time to peice together broken cyclists.



I thought they were up to their elbows in egg yolk doing Kings Men impersonations.


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## snorri (29 Jul 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Of course the BMJ are going to bandy this tosh about



Reading the blogs on the BMJ website would suggest BMJ members are much like the rest of the population, some haven't a clue and still feel qualified to express their opinions, and some have taken the trouble to seek out some facts before speaking out.


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## downfader (29 Jul 2011)

..interesting. Replied to a comment on the Indi site and it seems to have been removed for "breach of guidelines". I dont remember being derogatory, infact I even agreed to some point with the person who's point I disagreed with.. if you get me (eg James Cracknell IS a legend, but he's wrong on cycle helmets)


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## Jezston (1 Aug 2011)

snorri said:


> Reading the blogs on the BMJ website would suggest BMJ members are much like the rest of the population, some haven't a clue and still feel qualified to express their opinions, and some have taken the trouble to seek out some facts before speaking out.



My flatmate is a medic, and most of his friends work in the medical profession. They do often have rather elevated confidence in their opinions. You should hear them argue.


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## dellzeqq (1 Aug 2011)

when you think this through it's turned out extraordinarily well.

- BMJ organises poll
- LCC hears of it and LCC members vote against in a big way
- poll result against compulsion
- mainstream media reports poll as if it was a doctor's poll, not a bunch of cyclists jumping up and down on the BMJ's bones

so, job done. I have to say that the LCC has got a lot sprightlier of late. Taken with the Blackfriars Bridge demo, they've had a really good week


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## benb (1 Aug 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> when you think this through it's turned out extraordinarily well.
> 
> - BMJ organises poll
> - LCC hears of it and LCC members vote against in a big way
> ...



We should get them to do a poll on shared use paths next!


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## downfader (1 Aug 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> when you think this through it's turned out extraordinarily well.
> 
> - BMJ organises poll
> - LCC hears of it and LCC members vote against in a big way
> ...




Both the LCC website and their e-newsletter are worth reading for non-Londoners imo. Always some interesting info or perspective to be found.


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## downfader (1 Aug 2011)

benb said:


> We should get them to do a poll on shared use paths next!




Dont jest. Thats how the Southampton Cycling Campaign often roll.


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## Richard Mann (1 Aug 2011)

downfader said:


> Both the LCC website and their e-newsletter are worth reading for non-Londoners imo. Always some interesting info or perspective to be found.



Their forum seems dead as a dodo, though.


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