# Sportive or Audax



## F70100 (12 Aug 2015)

Just curious about the difference between a sportive and an audax event, given that neither are a race.

What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


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## vickster (12 Aug 2015)

Degree of organisation, distance and mamil quotient 

Stickies in each part of the forum tell you more


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## F70100 (12 Aug 2015)

I've read the stickies but the second part of my enquiry still stands:



F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?



Not knocking either, just genuinely curious.


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## ianrauk (12 Aug 2015)

Sportive participants pretend to race
Audax participants pretend not to race

Sportives you are fed gels, bananas and high 5 tabs
Audax you are fed pasta, bacon rolls, biscuits and tea.

Sportives you follow little dayglo arrows
Audax you follow a route sheet

Sportives you get a little shiny trinket
Audax you get a mention on their website

Sportives cost a fortune
Audax don't

Sportives you are forced to wear a helmet or you don't ride
Audax no one cares

If I think of any more I'll add to the above.


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## raleighnut (12 Aug 2015)

A lot ot Audax events require mudguards. (and tend to be longer than sportives)


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## jefmcg (12 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> A lot ot Audax events require mudguards.


That's nearly disappeared. But you are likely to be visiting cafes, so they like you to not muddy them up.


> (and tend to be longer than sportives)



That's true. Sportives tend to be up to 100 miles, proper audaxes start at 125 miles (though shorter distances are available)


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## mcshroom (12 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> A lot of Audax events require mudguards. (and tend to be longer than sportives)


Just about no audax events require mudguards now. They are a good idea if you are stopping at cafes though out of consideration to the cafe's furniture.

To carry on from Ian

On Sportives you get a timing chip
On Audax you get a card to stamp


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## winjim (12 Aug 2015)

A sportive is a type of mass participation cycling event. Audax is an organisation which promotes long distance cycling endurance challenges.


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## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2015)

There's a baffling variety of different kinds of Audax in addition to ordinary scheduled calendar events. There are permanents, DIYs, DIY by GPS, extended calendar events, and probably some more that are secret.

I've only done ordinary ones.

On Sportives it's generally not necessary to make a note of the name of the third pub on the left after you enter the village. On Audaxes, it might be.


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## Racing roadkill (12 Aug 2015)

Sportive = knobber fest

Auduax = nutter fest.


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## F70100 (12 Aug 2015)

But still:



F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


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## jefmcg (12 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


Audax gives you good routes, suitable stops, company and support. They can also be cheaper than doing the ride on your own. Your rides are accredited so you have a record of what done. They have awards for extreme riding. You can get badges if you want. 

Sportives I don't really get


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## jefmcg (12 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> They can also be cheaper than doing the ride on your own


Eg the ditchling devil, one of the more expensive 200km audaxes included donuts at the start, morning tea halfway to Brighton, BBQ in Brighton and coffee and so much cake halfway back to London. Try to do that at cafes for £15


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## vickster (12 Aug 2015)

Without a sports nutrition or other sponsor in sight


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## ianrauk (12 Aug 2015)

Sportives you mix it with Sky fanboys
Audax you mix it with Steve Abraham


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## Pale Rider (12 Aug 2015)

Sportives are run for profit.

Audaxes are run to break even.


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## winjim (12 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


I like the fact that someone else has done the route planning, so you get to go places you wouldn't necessarily have thought of, and can then incorporate into future rides.

I only do the small local charity ones though. Would like to get more into Audaxing but haven't the time right now.


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## Tim Hall (12 Aug 2015)

Going back to the :


F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?



Now that is a good question. I've done a few audaxes, nothing more than 200km. I don't think I'd bother to ride 200km based on a route I'd made up, or more accurately, I don't think I can be bothered to make up a 200km route. The nearest I've come to it was a "follow my nose" ride the year before last, which ended up at 120km.


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## vickster (12 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> But still:


Try one of each, see what you think? Kind of need to see what you think
I've done one sportive, on closed roads. Wouldn't do one on open roads I doubt
Never done an audax, don't think I've got 200 hilly kms in my legs or bum, especially not on my own on roads I don't know. I also don't ride in the dark for any distance, and there's not enough daylight on a UK day to allow me to go that far!!


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## mcshroom (12 Aug 2015)

There are a lot of 150, 100 and even some 50km audaxes. You don't have to ride silly distances if you don't want


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## Smokin Joe (12 Aug 2015)

Riders on audax events are mostly slim build. Sportive fields are 50% porkers.


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## blazed (12 Aug 2015)

Audax is for the unfit who cycle at snail pace. All they care about is miles on the clock. 

An average sportive rider would easily be able to compete with the best in audax, he would have to adjust his training but his far higher level of fitness would see him through. Basically would have to slow down, and the body would adjust to the long SLOW days on the saddle. The boredom of slowly peddling for hundreds of miles would be the only bit to overcome.

An average Audax rider however would suffer big time trying to ride a fast sportive time!


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## ColinJ (12 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> I like the fact that someone else has done the route planning, so you get to go places you wouldn't necessarily have thought of, and can then incorporate into future rides.


Forum rides? 'Free' is even cheaper than audax!


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## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


Good question. I do the vast majority of my riding on my own on routes I've made up. Sportives I've done mainly as an excuse to get together with friends. Audaxes to provide the structure to keep me going for the longer distances. 

I think my favourite is just making up my own route and riding round it.


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## JMAG (12 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> Riders on audax events are mostly slim build. Sportive fields are 50% porkers.



That must make me a sportive rider then. Good to know in case I ever feel the need to join a large organised event 



blazed said:


> Audax is for the unfit who cycle at snail pace. All they care about is miles on the clock.



Stop the train, maybe I am an audaux rider!

Edit. Has anyone ever done a Spordax? Slow ride for porkers.


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## F70100 (12 Aug 2015)

I did a sportive last year and it left me somewhat underwhelmed. I will take @vickster 's suggestion and try an audax; maybe it will have the right amount of whelm.


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## jefmcg (12 Aug 2015)

Start here. Select criteria at the top and click "Go" . Note: AAA is about hills. I'm a sh*tty climber, so I select rides without AAA rating. You should be able to find something to suit. 

You'll need to do some navigation. Garmin is preferred, or you can use your phone. Or you can be old school, and follow the route sheet. It's easy enough, all you need is a way of clipping them to your bike, and a computer that measures in km so you know how far to the next turn.

have fun!


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## Norry1 (12 Aug 2015)

Sportive riders are proud of how new their bikes and kit are
Audax riders are proud of how old their bikes and kit are

Ditto price


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## mcshroom (12 Aug 2015)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9RbrV7PNE


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## Racing roadkill (12 Aug 2015)

JMAG said:


> Edit. Has anyone ever done a Spordax? Slow ride for porkers.


Now that sounds like a marketing opportunity


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## Ajay (12 Aug 2015)

Audax = a sit down meal with wine and coffee (ok, this one was in France) 18€
Sportive = a gazebo with gels, crisps and (if you're lucky) jelly babies. £35


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## martint235 (12 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> Riders on audax events are mostly slim build. Sportive fields are 50% porkers.


Really? The bikes the Sportive lot ride must be really strong.

Then again I've done no sportives and only 3 audax and one of those was LEL which doesn't count.


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## dave r (12 Aug 2015)

I've done a couple of Audax's, a 100k where I rode to and from the head quarters and ended up doing 200k, a 100miler that started and finished in Meriden just outside Coventry, enjoyed both rides but they took up too much time, I've got a couple of years to retirement and I'm thinking about doing a few more once I've retired. I've haven't done a sportive, I've looked at them but the ones I've looked at have been expensive to enter, I also got the impresion that they are more like races than the Audax and I'm not into racing.


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## Racing roadkill (12 Aug 2015)

dave r said:


> I've done a couple of Audax's, a 100k where I rode to and from the head quarters and ended up doing 200k, a 100miler that started and finished in Meriden just outside Coventry, enjoyed both rides but they took up too much time, I've got a couple of years to retirement and I'm thinking about doing a few more once I've retired. I've haven't done a sportive, I've looked at them but the ones I've looked at have been expensive to enter, I also got the impresion that they are more like races than the Audax and I'm not into racing.


That's pretty accurate. I don't generally do the organised stuff period. I've done one Randonee (it was free, unless you wished to donate some money, which I gladly did) and one sportive (because it was very unusual) in over 30 years of road riding. I tend to just ride long distance routes, that I make up on a whim:


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## Retribution03 (12 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> Just curious about the difference between a sportive and an audax event, given that neither are a race.
> 
> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?


On the sportive I did there was a feed station at halfway,riders from a club riding the course to check people were not in trouble a mechanic at the start and at the feed station as well as a vehicle on stand by to assist where needed, all for £18.75 (£16.75 with code) It allowed novices like myself to complete my longest ride with the knowledge there were people around and on call should something go wrong and a nice long ride with like minded peeps....not done an Audax.


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## Retribution03 (12 Aug 2015)

User said:


> That sounds a good one.


Yeah I thought it was great value.there is a series of 3 the last being in October which they are using chip timing but keeping the price the same as it has only just been decided to use it and it will only go up by £1 next year.


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## martint235 (13 Aug 2015)

blazed said:


> Deleted


Unfortunately from what I've read regarding recent sportives, paramedics have been required in quite tragic circumstances (neither particularly attributable to the event or the person imo). However given that the events of RideLondon are less than two weeks ago, your trolling is distasteful, sickening and upsetting to any relatives who may happen across this public website.


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## DaveReading (13 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> and a computer that measures in km so you know how far to the next turn.



Or, if you're an old imperial fogey like me, download the route sheet beforehand and convert all the leg distances to proper miles.


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## Pale Rider (13 Aug 2015)

martint235 said:


> one of those was LEL which doesn't count.



You are too modest.

I think LEL should count at least double.


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## nickyboy (13 Aug 2015)

Went for a ride yesterday and got caught up in an Audax. I got royally skinned going up Snake Pass by several of them, including one "proper" audaxer on a bike with a big routesheet clipped on the bars, carradice bag and mudguards (it was 20 degrees and sunny).

Pleased to see that there is a blurring of the distinction between audaxes and sportives, particularly on the shorter, sharper audaxes (this one was 100km super-grimpeur type thing). These attract a lot of sportive-type riders too as they see it as a good value option whilst getting the camaraderie of 50+ riders you wouldn't get just doing the route yourself


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## Tim Hall (13 Aug 2015)

DaveReading said:


> Or, if you're an old imperial fogey like me, download the route sheet beforehand and convert all the leg distances to proper miles.


Some years ago I got ready for my first Audax. South Coast Hardriders, or similar. 
Bike? check
Tools? check
Waterproof? check
Water bottle? check
Set computer to km? check

Get to the start and pickup route sheet. It's in miles.


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## F70100 (13 Aug 2015)

nickyboy said:


> These attract a lot of sportive-type riders too as they see it as a good value option whilst getting the camaraderie of 50+ riders you wouldn't get just doing the route yourself



If @blazed is a typical sportive rider, it doesn't sound as if there's too much camaraderie on a sportive.


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## jefmcg (13 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> Get to the start and pickup route sheet. It's in miles.


That's a very unusual audax, if you didn't get the route sheet until the start. Old school organisers ask you to included 2 SAE with your entry, one to send you the route sheet, and one to send back your card. Now days you mostly download the route sheet - and a gpx file.

The route is not supposed to be a surprise, you are meant to be able to thoroughly plan your ride in advance, if you care to.


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## w00hoo_kent (13 Aug 2015)

F70100 said:


> What is the particular challenge of either as opposed to just making up your own route and riding around it?



I've only done 1 Sportive to date, partly from asking the same question.

Biggest difference is people. Someone else will have set the route and I think Audaxes have a minimum climb requirement, others have mentioned big climb stuff exists, hopefully there will be good reasons for them picking the route they did.

Other people will be doing the route as you do (Sportives always sound busier than Audaxes) so you'll see people on the road and eat with other cyclists who can share experiences.

On the challenge front, possibly the terrain but mostly everyone else doing the event you are is doing the same distance, in the same weather so you have a solid gauge for how well you did. Sportives tend to be closely timed and the one I did published all the times so you could see where you came, with Audaxes I guess you see similar faces and can see how you do over time vs the pack, also who is least bothered by weather and sleep deprivation.


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## Tim Hall (13 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> That's a very unusual audax, if you didn't get the route sheet until the start. Old school organisers ask you to included 2 SAE with your entry, one to send you the route sheet, and one to send back your card. Now days you mostly download the route sheet - and a gpx file.
> 
> The route is not supposed to be a surprise, you are meant to be able to thoroughly plan your ride in advance, if you care to.


Hmm. Good point. It was ages ago, like 16 years ago, so all a bit lost in the mists of time. SAEs definitely, no gpx.


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## DCLane (13 Aug 2015)

JMAG said:


> Edit. Has anyone ever done a Spordax? Slow ride for porkers.


 
Skyride?


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## DaveReading (13 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> The route is not supposed to be a surprise, you are meant to be able to thoroughly plan your ride in advance, if you care to.



That's a relief to know. I'll admit to having felt a wee bit guilty that I might be cheating when I went out at the weekend to recce part of a 100K audax route that I'm planning to do next month. With a bit of help from Google Streetview, too.


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## DCLane (13 Aug 2015)

DaveReading said:


> That's a relief to know. I'll admit to having felt a wee bit guilty that I might be cheating when I went out at the weekend to recce part of a 100K audax route that I'm planning to do next month. With a bit of help from Google Streetview, too.


 
That's what I've resorted to doing so I don't rely 100% on directions / GPS.

An overview of the route plus Streetview at the key junctions worked well for my 200, 300, 400 and 600 PBP qualifiers.


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## martint235 (13 Aug 2015)

DaveReading said:


> That's a relief to know. I'll admit to having felt a wee bit guilty that I might be cheating when I went out at the weekend to recce part of a 100K audax route that I'm planning to do next month. With a bit of help from Google Streetview, too.


Always remember too that on an Audax you don't necessarily have to ride 100% of the route. For example on LEL, I left the southbound route just north of Brampton cos I got fed up of being diverted down very narrow lanes when I had the A7 to my right. I know other people used the A roads around the Howardian Hills.


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## steveindenmark (13 Aug 2015)

I am so pleased that someone asked this question because I didnt know the answer either.

It has helped me decide on my next bike. Anything that refers to sportive in the make of the bike is out the window, anything with Audax is in.

It sounds like you ride Audax rides with comfy Brooks B17 saddles and not those knife edged pieces of plastic that shove right up the butt.

I almost opted for a sportive. That was a lucky escape.


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## martint235 (13 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> I am so pleased that someone asked this question because I didnt know the answer either.
> 
> It has helped me decide on my next bike. Anything that refers to sportive or endurance in the make of the bike is out the window, anything with Audax is in.
> 
> ...


My bike Lelly (clue to the purpose is in the name) is actually a Planet X Ti Sportive. Very comfy though


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## vickster (13 Aug 2015)

You don't need an audax bike to do an audax, also sportive or endurance bikes are designed with long rides in mind...which err is generally what an audax is 

You can also put a brooks on an endurance bike as @jefmcg (obviously has the obligatory audaxing carradice though to go with the saddle  )


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## Markymark (13 Aug 2015)

Sportives are for winners. 



You'll find people who think that at sportives.


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## winjim (13 Aug 2015)

Sportive bikes are named that because they are _not racing bikes._


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## Moderators (13 Aug 2015)

*Mod note: *Several posts have been removed. I've allowed the first post that started the diversion to stand as a different opinion, but I would rather you returned to giving helpful comments explaining the differences., apart from anything I've found it very interesting reviewing this thread


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## Fab Foodie (13 Aug 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Sportives are run for profit.
> 
> Audaxes are run to break even.


Sportives are run for the organiser .... Audax are run for the participants....


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## Banjo (13 Aug 2015)

One big difference I don't think has been mentioned is on an Audax you look after yourself.
Theres no broom wagon to pic you up if you break the bike or just get too tired.
Other Audaxers will generally stop and help up to a point but you are expected to carry your own spares ,tools and know how to use them.

The other major difference is that on a sportive the route is all signposted and possibly martialled on an audax you have a set of route instructions ,most rides have gpx files available making the old fashioned route sheet a bit redundant now.

There is no typical Audaxer. There are some superb athletes and some slow plodders (like me). You will see featherweight carbon fibre bikes next to ancient steel road bikes.

An audax organizer gives his time up to promote the sport not to make a fortune as some Sportives do.


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## Smokin Joe (13 Aug 2015)

The standard of riding on audax events is much higher IME. I've been embarrassed at the "Roadcraft" of more than a few people on sportives.


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## nickyboy (13 Aug 2015)

User13710 said:


> Oh no, really? They've already ruined the Isle of Wight Randonnee by charging about like it's a race.



I shan't embarrass the individual by linking to it but the fastest guy on the audax I happened upon on Wednesday wrote this on his strava record of his ride:

Marple AUDAX 100k first place

Thin end of the wedge etc etc


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## Shut Up Legs (13 Aug 2015)

blazed said:


> Audax is for the unfit who cycle at snail pace. All they care about is miles on the clock.


That's the worst generalisation I've read all year.


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## jefmcg (13 Aug 2015)

Audaxers


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## Tim Hall (13 Aug 2015)

An alternative view of Audax here. It was from a few years back on YACF. (contains rude words)


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## rb58 (14 Aug 2015)

blazed said:


> Audax is for the unfit who cycle at snail pace. All they care about is miles on the clock.
> 
> An average sportive rider would easily be able to compete with the best in audax, he would have to adjust his training but his far higher level of fitness would see him through. Basically would have to slow down, and the body would adjust to the long SLOW days on the saddle. The boredom of slowly peddling for hundreds of miles would be the only bit to overcome.
> 
> An average Audax rider however would suffer big time trying to ride a fast sportive time!


I presume you had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you wrote this?


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## outlash (14 Aug 2015)




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## DaveReading (14 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> An alternative view of Audax here. It was from a few years back on YACF. (contains rude words)



What's the 50/50 Rule ?


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## steveindenmark (14 Aug 2015)

Would the recent Transcontinental Race be classed as an Audax?

It seems to tick some of the boxes. If it doesnt, what is it classed as?


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## Hill Wimp (14 Aug 2015)

There are many different types of cyclists, all real cyclists but its the Audaxers that i have always admired and as a kid they were the ones i wanted to be. I just wanted to be able to ride for miles and miles.


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> If it doesnt, what is it classed as?


It's a race.


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## Citius (14 Aug 2015)

Any event where the objective is to be first over the line is a race.


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## Venod (14 Aug 2015)

nickyboy said:


> I shan't embarrass the individual by linking to it but the fastest guy on the audax I happened upon on Wednesday wrote this on his strava record of his ride:
> 
> Marple AUDAX 100k first place
> 
> Thin end of the wedge etc etc



A local rider bragged that he won a sportive and his next race was a local sportive (a charity ride) during the sportive he was bragging about he was seen jumping red lights, he got a right slatting on Facebook, so much so that he changed his Strava account so no one now sees his rides, he didn't need to brag he is obviously a talented rider as could be seen from his Strava feed (before he made it private) 

I think a lot riders treat Sportive's as a race which I think is a shame.


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## steveindenmark (14 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> It's a race.



It only appears to be a "Race" for about half a dozen riders. The rest seem content to get to the end at their own speed, or even to get as far as they can. All of which is very admireable.

But my idea of a race is where all the competitors compete to come in first.

I like the format, but am not sure about the Race bit.


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

London Marathon is a race. Most entrants are have no chance or expectation of winning.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Aug 2015)

There is a big tendency to fragmentation in all groups, and cyclists are no exception. “Look at them … ”, group A says of group B, “… they’re doing it all wrong. Nobbers.”.

So what is it, I wonder, that gives rise to the rather sneery attitude of Audaxers to Sportives? Is there some resentment that the sportives, with their slick websites pandering to escapism and racing fantasy, are so successful in hoovering up newcomers to cycling? Meanwhile Audaxing remains obscure, and when people do hear of it it’s for insane feats like the Highlands and Islands, LEL, PBP and so forth, nothing accessible to mortals. 

If audaxing didn’t exist, would you invent it in its present form? With its rather lacklustre website and emphasis on paper (Brevet cards, route sheets, till receipts, SAEs) and bizarre complexity (calendars, perms, DIY[by GPS] etc). Is it just the fact that it’s volunteer run and strapped for cash that is holding it back from a slicker operation, or is it _deliberately_ obscure, old fashioned and technophobic?

I’ve very much enjoyed the audaxes I’ve done, and liked their homespun atmosphere, but they were more daunting and complicated to enter than a simple rock-up-and-ride it sportive even if they were very friendly once you finally manage to enter.


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## Citius (14 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> But my idea of a race is where all the competitors compete to come in first.



Like I said earlier, if the winner is deemed as the first over the line, then it is a race. Whether all competitors view it in the same way is immaterial.


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## steveindenmark (14 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Like I said earlier, if the winner is deemed as the first over the line, then it is a race. Whether all competitors view it in the same way is immaterial.



You make it sound as though it is run for the organisers and not the riders. Its an odd event. But addictive to watch on the PC.


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## Venod (14 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> London Marathon is a race. Most entrants are have no chance or expectation of winning.



Yes but all entrants know its a race and it is officially a race if your good enough you could win, I don't think all entrants to sportive's know that some people are racing, Sportive's are not an official race and don't have a winner.


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## fimm (14 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Audaxers


Those are fabulous photos.

And, they sum up one thing I have noticed about Audax vs Sportives that no one has mentioned yet - not many women do Audax...

(I am quite sure that Audaxers are delighted to have women along, and I felt very welcome on the two Audaxes I have done. I think that the reasons for not many women doing Audax will be very complicated but one I'm going to offer is that a smaller proportion of women (in general - I offer myself as an exception to this) are less interested in pushing ourselves to a limit. I've done triathlons (including Ironman), run marathons, done Sportives and Audaxes, and the questions I'm asking of myself are first "Can I do this?" and then if the answer is yes, the next question is "How fast can I do this?".)

Sorry, that went off into a bit of a ramble...


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## steveindenmark (14 Aug 2015)

I have never seen the London Marathon advertised as a race. It is advertised as a long distance running event. Certain individuals, decide to treat it as a race, but the vast majority do not.

Yes, I know we are splitting hairs and Im just chatting. I am not concerned about the outcome.

Fimm, i used to ask " Can I do it, how fast can I do it". I have run marathons and swam ultra distances.

I am now 57 and have a few broken bones from motorbike accidents. I now ask "Can I get out of bed today". I think Audax is an event which keeps people like me cycling. I am looking forward to an Audax event but would not consider a Sportive.

For younger riders, just remember, time passes very quickly and your Sportive career can be very short lived. What will you turn to then?


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

Afnug said:


> Yes but all entrants know its a race and it is officially a race if your good enough you could win, I don't think all entrants to sportive's know that some people are racing, Sportive's are not an official race and don't have a winner.


Sorry, we aren't talking about sportives in the case, we are talking about The Transcontinental. Which is definitely a race


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## w00hoo_kent (14 Aug 2015)

fimm said:


> And, they sum up one thing I have noticed about Audax vs Sportives that no one has mentioned yet - not many women do Audax...


Also an age thing. At 45 I should look at Juniors. :-)

It looks like a niche hobby thing. Being in a few the 'mainly die-hards who've done it since god's dog was a puppy' look is familiar. Like it or not things that take most of, or more than, a day are less popular now. Things that are weird but haven't become retro cool (is the DunRun much different to an Audax?) are dwindling. The gender divide seems to follow that to. Sweeping generalisation, men are more likely to do things that they think might make them look like nobbers than women are.


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## Citius (14 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> You make it sound as though it is run for the organisers and not the riders. Its an odd event. But addictive to watch on the PC.



Which event are you talking about? I'm simply explaining generically what a race is.


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## summerdays (14 Aug 2015)

I th


fimm said:


> Those are fabulous photos.
> 
> And, they sum up one thing I have noticed about Audax vs Sportives that no one has mentioned yet - not many women do Audax...
> 
> ...


i thought the photos were fantastic, and the mix of emotions on finishing, though one guy looks as though he is about to start rather than have completed the event!

As for women, for me it would be a time away from the family and too big a distance, perhaps in the future as mine fledge, I should try a shorter one. I'm more tempted by them than a Sportive.


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## Citius (14 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> The transcontinental



Either way - the definition remains the same.


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## Venod (14 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Sorry, we aren't talking about sportives in the case, we are talking about The Transcontinental. Which is definitely a race



Ah I see, thats what you get with just skimming through the thread


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## Tim Hall (14 Aug 2015)

DaveReading said:


> What's the 50/50 Rule ?


I think it is/was a rule that no more than 50% of the points you gain (1 point per 100km) could come from permanent or diy events as opposed to calendar events and count towards the championship. Steve Abraham (currently doing the One Year Time Trial) did 405 points in 2007, all (l think) as "perms" but couldn't be awarded the championship. The discussions in audax land about this rule stretch long into the night and make "big end" vs "little end" look like small beer.


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## Markymark (14 Aug 2015)

The Great Escape thing looks good. I've done just over 100 miles twice but hopefully can stick it out to 120 miles.

Is it yearly?


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## ianrauk (14 Aug 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> The Great Escape thing looks good. I've done just over 100 miles twice but hopefully can stick it out to 120 miles.
> 
> Is it yearly?




Yes.
It's a great route with very little climbing.
Though I probrably won't be doing it next year as it's has more of a sportive vibe then an audax vibe. As it's arranged by a roadie club, there are a good few chain gangs on the ride. (Some not having a clue as to how to navigate an audax).

The lack of free tea was not good either.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Aug 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> The Great Escape thing looks good. I've done just over 100 miles twice but hopefully can stick it out to 120 miles.
> 
> Is it yearly?


Yes, but that's not a 100% guarantee that it will be run next year.

I did it this year and it was indeed good. And flat  and convenient for me as well.

There was some dissatisfied grumbling on the internets afterwards that it was rather sportivey and unaudaxey. But that didn't prevent the supply of prodigious quantities of flapjack at one of the controls, even if the beard quotient was a bit low.


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## ianrauk (14 Aug 2015)

And yes, the flapjacks did make up for the negatives a little


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

Citius said:


> Which event are you talking about? I'm simply explaining generically what a race is.


transcontinental. See my earlier posting


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## fimm (14 Aug 2015)

I have to admit to being somewhat "shocked" (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) when there was some chat after one Audax I did about how a very fast time had been done by the group who were back first. I had genuinely thought that people didn't know this sort of thing. Turns out I was wrong.


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## w00hoo_kent (14 Aug 2015)

fimm said:


> I have to admit to being somewhat "shocked" (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) when there was some chat after one Audax I did about how a very fast time had been done by the group who were back first. I had genuinely thought that people didn't know this sort of thing. Turns out I was wrong.


You can always tell. And sometimes just presume. First 1000 mile 24hr motorbike ride I did in the States I got a rep for being very quick, but I'm pretty sure the 15 hour time that was being repeated back to me wasn't me, I'd thought I was closer to 19. I'd not been hammering it. Those events seem very close to Audaxing to be honest, and the competitors look surprisingly similar in the main I was a fresh face 30 something and very much at the young end of the scale.


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## w00hoo_kent (14 Aug 2015)

Thinking about it, the Scottish one they did the program about had 'fastest riders'. That may have been TV needing a 'winner' to try and make sense of it, but in most things who came first won't go unnoticed even if it is unrewarded.


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> The Great Escape thing looks good. I've done just over 100 miles twice but hopefully can stick it out to 120 miles.
> 
> Is it yearly?


If you are looking for a 200km out of London I'd recommend the Ditchling Devil (Brighton and back. I've done this as a perm, and volunteered twice) or Straight Outta Hackney (Cambridge and back. Haven't done this, but at the finish you get beer and venison burgers, how can it not be good). If you are keen to do one this year, there's still The Ghan 5 September. (Oxford and back. Done this one, but I was jetlagged and had been off my bike with an injury for 9 weeks, so I bonked and it's all a blur)


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

fimm said:


> And, they sum up one thing I have noticed about Audax vs Sportives that no one has mentioned yet - not many women do Audax...


It worried me that there were no women in the photos, so I did a bit of research. Apparently they are the early finishers - I had thought they were going to photograph everyone, but perhaps I was wrong.

Anyway, these are the folks who cycled 1415km in roughly 2 days. It was always going to be a big of a (numb) sausage fest.


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## Tim Hall (14 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> It worried me that there were no women in the photos, so I did a bit of research. Apparently they are the early finishers - I had thought they were going to photograph everyone, but perhaps I was wrong.
> 
> Anyway, these are the folks who cycled 1415km in roughly 2 days. It was always going to be a big of a (numb) sausage fest.


On the same page there's some of Charlotte's colour photos. Some finishers in there are women, but nowhere near 50%.
And unfortunately there's this one. Not for the faint hearted.


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## jefmcg (14 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> On the same page there's some of Charlotte's colour photos. Some finishers in there are women, but nowhere near 50%.


I don't think that helps much. There are over 200 photos there. Ignoring the tandem stokers, the wife and helpers, there are only 2 women.

I guess it's not surprising, the riders would have come in over 3 days, 24 hours a day. Unless they had shifts of photographers, they were only going to catch a few riders. The first riders makes more sense than anyone else.

Still, let's celebrate the two lovely solo women riders I identified (and apologies to any I missed by scanning hundreds of photos just looking for boobies!)


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## DaveReading (14 Aug 2015)

She has a pair that aren't the same size.


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## DaveReading (14 Aug 2015)

Water bottles.


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## winjim (14 Aug 2015)

Time for a quick rundown on the rules of _how to talk about women_?


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## Markymark (14 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Time for a quick rundown on the rules of _how to talk about women_?


Excellent, I could do with reading that - when will it be posted?


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## nickyboy (14 Aug 2015)

This thread has got me mulling over what the sportive/audax scene might look like in 10 or 20 years time. It's interesting to see the rapid proliferation of Sportives broadly matching the increase in profile and participation of cycling in UK. The same cannot be said of Audaxes I think.

So these days a lot more cyclists do sportives than audaxes. I wonder if some may start doing audaxes in the future or will audax just finally peter out as the current participants get too old? I only have experience of 100km mountainous audaxes and that attracts a fast, sportive-type rider as well as the traditional audaxer. I don't know what it's like on the 200km+ ones, presumably a bit more hardcore carradice?

Being a bit controversial, I bet that the long distance audaxes will slowly die out as the participants sadly slowly die out. High profile events like LEL excluded. Shorter sportive-distance audaxes will do OK and the distinction between these and sportives will narrow. Sportives will cease to explode in number but there will be a lot more participants in these than audaxes


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## w00hoo_kent (14 Aug 2015)

There is the possibility that the participants don't want them to become popular and are willing to (possibly subconsciously) let them die rather than risk 'undesirable attitudes' flooding them. I belong to at least one hobby that I think, despite their protestations of wanting to expand are almost definitely doing that.

Because of the low buy in I think even if that is happening they will last longer than you think, keeping traditions alive is a big thing in the UK and there doesn't need to be much of a next generation to promote them, and if you focus on self sufficiently all people need is a bike to do them.

Interestingly they project an image at odds with some of what people have been saying about them on here. Would they not get more take up if they pushed the touring/gentle ride aspects that appear to exist rather than the hard as nails Steve Abrahams one?

Speaking as someone who was thinking as they got to the third quarter of the Ride London, "you know, I think I might enjoy audaxing..."


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## Pale Rider (14 Aug 2015)

I'm not aware of any reliable data for numbers of riders taking part in audax and sportives.

Sportives, with their big company backing and flash websites, are certainly more visible, but are there really many more, or are they generally any bigger, than audax events?

As regards audax fading away as participants get older, the UK arm (of the biggest long distance cycling club in the world) was founded in 1976.

That's nearly 40 years ago.

The majority of those original members must surely now be either too old and infirm to cycle long distances, or dead.

Yet lots of people are still audaxing.

If we accept audax attracts older riders, it must be the case that cyclists who wouldn't consider audaxes when they were younger do so as they get older.

So today's clean shaven young sportive riders are tomorrow's audaxing beardies.


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## outlash (14 Aug 2015)

I'll wager the wannabe racers that love their sportives that are heading into audaxes are only doing the shorter options (up to 200k). Once the novelty wears off, they'll drift back into golf, triathlons or rugby while the audax scene will continue to attract the crowd it always has done.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Aug 2015)

outlash said:


> I'll wager the wannabe racers that love their sportives that are heading into audaxes are only doing the shorter options (up to 200k). Once the novelty wears off, they'll drift back into golf, triathlons or rugby while the audax scene will continue to attract the crowd it always has done.


Spot on.


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## martint235 (17 Aug 2015)

I seem to remember quite a few women, nowhere near 50% as stated before but certainly more than seem represented in the photos. There were two who had come over from the States for LEL that I chatted to on day 1 and a couple of others who joined me at the beginning of day 2. Bearing in mind that I probably talked to less than 10 riders during the whole of LEL, that's a pretty good proportion


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