# Lacing Trike Wheels



## AndyBa (1 Sep 2017)

I'm trying to re-lace a KMX front wheel which originally had 15g (1.8mm) spokes of 135mm length - one is broken and some are rusted. I managed to get another wheel which has the same length spoke but these appear to be 14g (2.0mm). I've tried re-laced the hub and rim up as per the original but came across two problems:

1) I needed to bend the spokes in order to get "under 3".
2) When all spokes were in I tightened all the nipples until no thread was showing and not all were fully home, so although the pattern "looks" right there must be something amiss!

I'm assuming I should really stick to using 15g spoke, but where can I get some without breaking the bank?

Here's the pics.


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## voyager (1 Sep 2017)

I usually get my spokes from ebay . Pattern looks okay to me but the spokes are not tensioned yet , 

here is another tutorial 

http://atomiczombie.com/Tutorial - 3 Cross Wheel Lacing - Page 1.aspx

On a lot of under 20" wheels the spoked are not crossed with "under 3 " I have found this with large e-motors in small rims . This makes the wheel look odd unless their is a lot of tension on the spoke to bend the line of both spokes .

regards emma


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## Yellow Saddle (1 Sep 2017)

I agree with Emma. Go for Over, Over, Over. Stick with the 2mm spokes but do some correcting of the spoke line on the outbound spokes. Force those spokes to make a tighter bend as they come out the hub flange.

But first, see if you can advance all the nipples to the same position i.e. so that you can just-just not see the last thread. 

That wheels screams for 2X.


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## AndyBa (1 Sep 2017)

Ok I'll try over over over. Sorry but over under reminds me of the Airplane films!

I should have clarified that after tightening the spokes and seeing that not all were visually equal in the rim I loosened them before causing any rim distortion.
As for 2x I guess the length of the spokes would be different and that means spending more money!


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## Yellow Saddle (2 Sep 2017)

AndyBa said:


> As for 2x I guess the length of the spokes would be different and that means spending more money!



Yes. Stick with 3X and try over over over.

Over and out.


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## AndyBa (2 Sep 2017)

So this morning I changed the lacing to 3 x over (over under now done!) and the spokes are looking nice an straight and the nipples are more evenly inserted into the rim. Thanks for the advice.

I've just built myself a truing frame out of wood. I'd use my bike forks but this trike wheel has a 20mm axle. I'll post a pic later. It's a bit crude but should do the job....I hope!


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2017)

I like the over/over idea. I'm thinking of fitting wider rims to the 20" fronts on my trike, both for the wider tyres I can fit and being able to use Schradar valves.

That advice has saved me a few potential headaches.


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## AndyBa (2 Sep 2017)

Here is the truing frame, I originally used the wrong sized hole saw, hence the reason for 2 holes!
The ply is a bit bendy but the idea was to use the axle which is quite short so wouldn't fit through a thick piece of wood on both sides.
I guess with hindsight I could have just used one thicker plank on one side - we'll see how well it works and go with plan B if required.


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## Ian H (2 Sep 2017)

Given that it's a trike, so a lot of lateral force on the wheels, I wonder what the relative 'sideways' strength is of laced and unlaced spokings.

Agree that 2x would be better.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2017)

Ian H said:


> Given that it's a trike, so a lot of lateral force on the wheels, I wonder what the relative 'sideways' strength is of laced and unlaced spokings.
> 
> Agree that 2x would be better.


No difference. The spokes hold the wheel in tension, contact points on the crossings just happen but they add nothing to the wheel.


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## Ian H (3 Sep 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> No difference. The spokes hold the wheel in tension, contact points on the crossings just happen but they add nothing to the wheel.


Jobst Brandt and I would disagree that there's no benefit. My question was whether it is more important for a trike wheel.


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## billym0404 (3 Sep 2017)

AndyBa said:


> I'm trying to re-lace a KMX front wheel which originally had 15g (1.8mm) spokes of 135mm length - one is broken and some are rusted. I managed to get another wheel which has the same length spoke but these appear to be 14g (2.0mm). I've tried re-laced the hub and rim up as per the original but came across two problems:
> 
> 1) I needed to bend the spokes in order to get "under 3".
> 2) When all spokes were in I tightened all the nipples until no thread was showing and not all were fully home, so although the pattern "looks" right there must be something amiss!
> ...



are they 16 inch as ive had a nighmare with kmx 16 inch same problems, did the 20 inch fine.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Sep 2017)

Ian H said:


> Jobst Brandt and I would disagree that there's no benefit. My question was whether it is more important for a trike wheel.


I don't think Jobst would. Can you find a reference of his talking about the "relative sideways strength" of laced and unlaced wheels? 
Your question dealt with that and the answer given by Joe is correct. Interlacing doesn't strengthen the wheel but helps to maintain some tension to adjacent spokes when the primary loaded spoke is overloaded and in danger of becoming slack. Then an interlace would lend it some tension and prevent the nipple from unscrewing. This doesn't improve strength or durability,but I suppose, reliability.


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## voyager (3 Sep 2017)

If you are really concerned then why not tie and solder the crosses like the roadies did about 60years ago , tinned copper wire and the big 100watt iron would sort out the problem.

Later's Emma


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Sep 2017)

voyager said:


> If you are really concerned then why not tie and solder the crosses like the roadies did about 60years ago , tinned copper wire and the big 100watt iron would sort out the problem.
> 
> Later's Emma



What would that do?


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## voyager (3 Sep 2017)

makes the wheel stiffer .
(old school )

regards Emma


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Sep 2017)

voyager said:


> makes the wheel stiffer .
> (old school )
> 
> regards Emma


How and why?


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## Ian H (3 Sep 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I don't think Jobst would. Can you find a reference of his talking about the "relative sideways strength" of laced and unlaced wheels?
> Your question dealt with that and the answer given by Joe is correct. Interlacing doesn't strengthen the wheel but helps to maintain some tension to adjacent spokes when the primary loaded spoke is overloaded and in danger of becoming slack. Then an interlace would lend it some tension and prevent the nipple from unscrewing. This doesn't improve strength or durability,but I suppose, reliability.



Which is what Brandt said. However, I'm interested in the sideways forces exerted on a trike wheel and whether lacing reducing the chances of pringling. 

I'm still surprised at how the trike wheels I built all those years ago, before box-section rims were common, withstood repeated two-wheel riding and cornering at speed without incurring disaster.


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## Tigerbiten (3 Sep 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> How and why?


Locks everything into triangles as opposed to trapezoids.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Sep 2017)

Ian H said:


> Which is what Brandt said. However, I'm interested in the sideways forces exerted on a trike wheel and whether lacing reducing the chances of pringling.


Think about it for a minute. Pringling is lateral collapse. How can interlacing prevent/reduce that?

I'm still surprised at how the trike wheels I built all those years ago, before box-section rims were common, withstood repeated two-wheel riding and cornering at speed without incurring disaster.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes things are stronger than we think.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Sep 2017)

Tigerbiten said:


> Locks everything into triangles as opposed to trapezoids.


If you analsyse the forces and relative movement between spokes, that argument holds no water.


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