# Long distance rides on folders



## steveindenmark (23 May 2015)

Seeing as this is a folders forum, I thought I would try and lead us away from Strictly Bromptons.

I am searching the net for long distance rides on folders, RTW on folders, touring on folders, etc. But I cannot find any. Does anyone know the best place to look.

What folders would be considered suitable for long distance touring with camping gear?


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## Fab Foodie (23 May 2015)

Brompton?

Google Brompton touring or similar and look at images. I particularly like the use of a large rucksack suspended from the rear of the seat and supported by the rack. There are pictures of loaded Bromptons in all kinds of places.
My short camping trip suggests they're ideal touring companions!


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## shouldbeinbed (23 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Seeing as this is a folders forum, I thought I would try and lead us away from Strictly Bromptons.
> 
> I am searching the net for long distance rides on folders, RTW on folders, touring on folders, etc. But I cannot find any. Does anyone know the best place to look.
> 
> What folders would be considered suitable for long distance touring with camping gear?


I did a few all dayers and weekends away on my Birdys. 18 inch wheels & Expedition rack meant that regular bike panniers - smaller worked better for no heel catch - would fit for a change of clothes and kit & bungeeing a tent and sleeping bag to the top of the rack was fine for overnight. The front forks are pre drilled for pannier racks too and I used a barbag & /or SQR set up routinely which could give more room if needed. It all just worked as it seems to on the Bromptons too.

*edit* I fitted a Burley trailer to the Birdys too and the kids had many happy years towing along in it before they got too big. I could manage a weeks family shopping in it as well so it would be another option for a longer, heavier laden trips, as long as you weren't planning on going properly off piste*

I would imagine, as long as you're not trying it on a cheapo e. g. Asda special made of gorgonzola or a more niche Airnimal type racy style unsuited to heavy loading, that any folder would do for the job with a bit of thought.


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## CopperBrompton (23 May 2015)

Not meaning to be a dick by using this link, it's just the only way I can see to share a Google search in a link:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=round+the+world+on+a+brompton


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## shouldbeinbed (23 May 2015)

Although you may be a bit optimistic to try touring on our friend the Strida


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## steveindenmark (23 May 2015)

Trikeman said:


> Not meaning to be a dick by using this link, it's just the only way I can see to share a Google search in a link:
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=round+the+world+on+a+brompton



That's very clever and I am impressed because I don't know how to do that. I am glad you posted it and I will read the articles because I am trying to compare folders for touring before I get carried away with the iconic name of Brompton. Instead of buying a bike that will do the job just as well for half the price.

But in my original post I did say.


*I thought I would try and lead us away from Strictly Bromptons.
*


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## CopperBrompton (23 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> I thought I would try and lead us away from Strictly Bromptons.


Everyone ends up buying a Brompton in the end; might as well just cut out the middle man. :-)


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## TheDoctor (24 May 2015)

And there isn't a bike that will do the job just as well, let alone for half the price.


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## Fab Foodie (24 May 2015)

http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/Mike/dahon_touring.html

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=44127

There's more if you google 'Touring on a Dahon' or similar ....


The Foldsoc looks interesting ....
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/


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## palinurus (24 May 2015)

Christian Miller rode a Bickerton across the US, I've just found out she died recently.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/obitua...-aircraft-factory-worker-and-author-1-2591349

Bike Fridays are often used for touring, Google brings up a lot of hits (mostly US), similarly there's some accounts of touring on Airnimals (I had one briefly and used it for a short tour).


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## srw (24 May 2015)

@CharlieB has toured (and is touring) on a Brompton, as has @StuartG and others. For a change (an inferior change), @lilolee is currently one day from Dieppe on a Mezzo, and joined us on a Mezzo on the way to Bordeaux last year.


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## TheDoctor (25 May 2015)

Touring by Bickerton??
You fiend. You utter, utter bar steward.
I've got a project Bick in my garage, and this years daft idea is now smashing my back doors in...


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## steveindenmark (25 May 2015)

Doc, what's the sensible choice for touring. Rack or no rack? Is it easy to retro fit a rack?


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## Fab Foodie (25 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Doc, what's the sensible choice for touring. Rack or no rack? Is it easy to retro fit a rack?


If you're talking about a Brommie .... I thought about that one and my solution was to fit a Topeak Quick release beam rack. My thinking was that although it won't take the same weight as Brompton Rack, it still allows the rear-wheel to be folded-under and it's less permantly attached weight for transporting by air and it's less ugly ....
I can also use it on other bikes ....


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## steveindenmark (25 May 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> If you're talking about a Brommie .... I thought about that one and my solution was to fit a Topeak Quick release beam rack. My thinking was that although it won't take the same weight as Brompton Rack, it still allows the rear-wheel to be folded-under and it's less permantly attached weight for transporting by air and it's less ugly ....
> I can also use it on other bikes ....
> 
> View attachment 89777




Yes. I like that. It is less weight and you can remove the rack when you don't need it.

Where do you get the front rack from and does it get in the way or make the bike bigger when folded?


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## Fab Foodie (25 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Yes. I like that. It is less weight and you can remove the rack when you don't need it.
> 
> Where do you get the front rack from and does it get in the way or make the bike bigger when folded?


The front rack is the Brompton S-bag FRAME from a Brommie dealer or on-line. The Taller B-bag frames are also available. Costs £20.I then tie-wrapped a Carradice Camper Longflap onto it, but any saddle-bag will work. Thanks to @User I also have a more elegant single Pannier bag I can attach too.
Yes it makes the bike bigger when folded, but is easily lifted off (seconds).


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## Brommyboy (25 May 2015)

My longest laden moving on distance by Brompton in the Scottish Highlands (Ullapool to Morvich) came to 87 miles. I was carrying full camping gear. How far do you wish to travel in a day?


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## TheDoctor (25 May 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Doc, what's the sensible choice for touring. Rack or no rack? Is it easy to retro fit a rack?


I use a T-Bag on a front carrier block. I've used a rack pack before. Retrofitting a rack is costly.


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## jefmcg (25 May 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Although you may be a bit optimistic to try touring on our friend the Strida
> 
> View attachment 89542


there is nothing so silly that someone hasn't tried it. 

I saw this page a few years ago, it took some serious googling to find it again ....


http://www.a-basketful-of-papayas.net/2011/09/to-north-sea.html







(when I saw the subject, i was going to say I've done the DunRun + many 100km rides on my Mezzo, but that's not near the distance you mean)


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## shouldbeinbed (25 May 2015)

jefmcg said:


> there is nothing so silly that someone hasn't tried it.
> 
> I saw this page a few years ago, it took some serious googling to find it again ....
> 
> ...


Wow, Chapeau


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## HelenD123 (25 May 2015)

You wanted to get away from Bromptons so how about an Airnimal and two Birdys . We carried full camping and cooking gear and even did a red mountain bike route by accident with no problems. Having the folders gave us the flexibility to change our plans and just jump on any train. The Airnimal doesn't fold very neatly but I love it!


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## steveindenmark (26 May 2015)

Jef, I just couldnt. It may do the job but it is seriously ugly in my eyes.

Ive looked at the Airnimal and they do not fold as neatly as the Brompton and they are also very expensive.


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## currystomper (1 Jun 2015)

Something really mad that fits into a suitcase and can eat continents??

What about a cruzbike quest 451


View: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rZrAbvr-hJU


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## roundthebendbromcycle (8 Jun 2015)

Heinz Stücke now has a brompton, he left his job as a toolmaker at 22 and has been travelling the world ever since, he never did it all on a brompton, just useful for ticking off all those tiny islands off his list, I guess. I was never that smart at 22, still not.

There was that postman that went round england on one, he liked it so much he went back the other way, he pulled a frame with a car top box on it, huge thing in comparison. spose it was lockable.

For my part my arse has had enough at about 60 miles (with stops) I use a city folding trailer for travelling with a small converted rucksack bag on the front, the biggest problem is that once you are up to speed you really forget its there, very low C of G, the whole thing can be carried onto the train in one go.

I'd secretly love a birdy (opps!)

nice try to lead us away from bromptons Steve


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## roundthebendbromcycle (10 Jun 2015)

here's a pic of that postie that went round england, twice!


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## cisamcgu (11 Jun 2015)

I'm missing something here .. why ride a Brompton if you are stuck with something the size of a small car behind you ?


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## TheDoctor (11 Jun 2015)

∆This. It looks like utter madness to me.
Still, each to their own..


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## jefmcg (12 Jun 2015)

I do like this:





The bike and trailer frame all go into the suitcase for flying. 

But I am mystified why there are panniers? Wouldn't it make more sense to put everything in the (presumably empty) suitcase, maybe add a lightweight holdall for when the the suitcase is full?


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## Twowheelxtc (15 Jun 2015)

Wife and I have a couple of Bike Fridays in our collection. One is a Crusoe lightweight tourer and the other a Silk with Alfine 11sp hub, belt drive, drop bars and discs They have been great for tours that involve flying as they fit (with a bit of dismantling and swearing) into Samsonite suitcases so go as normal luggage and are well protected. We've ridden Thailand, Laos and Sri Lanka on them and they ride pretty well....probably better than most small wheel bikes. The advantage of 20" wheels is that they roll ok and tubes and tyres are available just about anywhere and there is a good selection of both touring and faster slicks. Japan is a possibility for us next year. 
The problem with a Bike Friday is the crazy prices largely due to the import duty and VAT (they evan charge VAT on the import duty would you believe).
I wouldn't choose to ride them on a club ride but for a leisurely tour they do have their merits.....buses, trains and hotel rooms being just a few.


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## Bodhbh (16 Jun 2015)

Should post an 'action' photo, but it's the only one I have handy, my Raleigh Twenty about to head off to do the Welsh end to end:






tbh with the small wheels and consequent low centre of gravity it handles at least as well as my regular touring bike. After I finished, I headed over to meet the OH, we threw it in the boot with her Dahon and headed off for a couple of weeks camping in Germany. The joy of folders!


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## roundthebendbromcycle (26 Jun 2015)

just wanted to share a lovely moment in norfolk, beautiful summers day, couldn't hear a car, stopped for a brew, always carry the essentials like a table, forgot the tablecloth though


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## threebikesmcginty (26 Jun 2015)

roundthebendbromcycle said:


> just wanted to share a lovely moment in norfolk, beautiful summers day, couldn't hear a car, stopped for a brew, always carry the essentials like a table, forgot the tablecloth though
> View attachment 93466



Ooo how exciting, I've got the same fold-up stools. My grandma gave me those when they finally gave up camping, well he died which is the same thing I guess.


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## Low Roller (29 Jul 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Seeing as this is a folders forum, I thought I would try and lead us away from Strictly Bromptons.
> 
> I am searching the net for long distance rides on folders, RTW on folders, touring on folders, etc. But I cannot find any. Does anyone know the best place to look.
> 
> What folders would be considered suitable for long distance touring with camping gear?


I've got a three speed Brompton and a 27 speed Dahon Mu. I tried pedalling the Brompton about five miles with a trombone in a gig bag strapped to my back for a brass band event . It was slightly uphill ( towards Flamborough Head ) with a facing wind. I was utterly knackered with it. There is no question in my mind that if you want a sensible folder ( slightly less robust than a Brompton and slightly less compact) you go for a larger wheeled bike with more gears , like the Dahon.
I've lent the Brompton to my son who is much fitter than me and he thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread and butter.
So, if you are an old fart who gets off to walk up hills, don't get a Brompton.


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## Ridgeways (16 Mar 2017)

Belatedly contributing to this, having found this topic while searching the site for “Christian Miller” to thank whoever recommended her book, the beauty of the Bickerton for long-distance travel lies in the simple method of construction, that lends itself to adaptation more than any other bike I know of [including the modern versions]. The modifications need be only very minor, for added strength of certain components, but they can carry everything and more you ever need – and I too have travelled complete with boat.

The photo above is from a trip across the Sinai desert before paved roads made it into the interior. There had been a flash flood through the wadis a week or so previously, so I was taking the opportunity to replenish my water supply.


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## currystomper (19 Mar 2017)

Bodhbh said:


> Should post an 'action' photo, but it's the only one I have handy, my Raleigh Twenty about to head off to do the Welsh end to end:
> 
> View attachment 296170
> 
> ...


I missed this post, but I think I agree the cheapest way to go touring on a folding bike that I would recommend would be to use a Raleigh 20 (Stowaway), I commuted on one for a few years and it was great, I would be happy to take one touring. You could go on Ebay and get a one for 50 quid and do it up, the main upgrades needed would be a good service and some modern high pressure tyres. They are really solid bikes will support the weight of all the the touring kit, simple to maintain and I think you can split them at the hinge so can pack them down to a very small size if you have the time and the need.

I've also ridden a Bickerton and I wouldn't recommend it unless the challenge is to ride the most unlikely bike!! I would recommend my Pacific Reach as an alternative to a Broughton, but its more expensive option (ditto Birdy, Airnamal etc). The only other thought I had was to use an normal sized folding Montague Paratrooper if that's your thing.


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## ufkacbln (19 Mar 2017)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Although you may be a bit optimistic to try touring on our friend the Strida
> 
> View attachment 89542



I have commuted on one!!!!!


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## 12boy (19 Mar 2017)

Not a folding bike but a unicycle 
View: https://vimeo.com/17852073
.. goes to show you can do it with just about anything.


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## Fab Foodie (19 Mar 2017)

Bodhbh said:


> Should post an 'action' photo, but it's the only one I have handy, my Raleigh Twenty about to head off to do the Welsh end to end:
> 
> View attachment 296170
> 
> ...


@Hill Wimp
Everything is possible on a small wheeler :-)


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## Fab Foodie (19 Mar 2017)

Ridgeways said:


> View attachment 342804
> 
> Belatedly contributing to this, having found this topic while searching the site for “Christian Miller” to thank whoever recommended her book, the beauty of the Bickerton for long-distance travel lies in the simple method of construction, that lends itself to adaptation more than any other bike I know of [including the modern versions]. The modifications need be only very minor, for added strength of certain components, but they can carry everything and more you ever need – and I too have travelled complete with boat.
> 
> The photo above is from a trip across the Sinai desert before paved roads made it into the interior. There had been a flash flood through the wadis a week or so previously, so I was taking the opportunity to replenish my water supply.


We're not worthy!!!!
That's a fair old chainset there!


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## TheDoctor (20 Mar 2017)

The thing about smaller is it'll comfortably fit anywhere you try to put it.
Even places where it's not really supposed to go!


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## Ridgeways (20 Mar 2017)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's a fair old chainset there!



It is - it needs to be, in order to get what I consider to be a comfortable top gear for cruising along in ideal conditions. It is a French TA set, 34: 54: 68, giving me, with this particular rear wheel cluster, 21 speeds from 20" to 99".


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## jefmcg (20 Mar 2017)

User said:


> You'll never convince her smaller is better...





TheDoctor said:


> The thing about smaller is it'll comfortably fit anywhere you try to put it.
> Even places where it's not really supposed to go!


Can we declare a moratorium on this sort of thing until Fnaar is a back amongst us?


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## TheDoctor (20 Mar 2017)




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## Ridgeways (20 Mar 2017)

At the other extreme, if you can concentrate past my lady friend's legs, you can see the largest rear sprocket I tried out, that was larger than the small chain wheel. Not practical, because the derailleur mechanism could not cope with it and the chain had to be man-handled onto to it, but a bit of fun giving me about 14.3" lowest gear. It was a 38 tooth sprocket driven by the 34 tooth chain-wheel.

gearing.


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## jefmcg (20 Mar 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> View attachment 343333


Oh, no, I wasn't being all "careful now". It just feels like a waste without being able @ fnaar (space left to hopefully not summon him).

I nearly went the other way and said something like "if it's small enough, you won't even realise it's in there" but restrained myself


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## jefmcg (20 Mar 2017)

Ridgeways said:


> if you can concentrate past my lady friend's legs,


You could have cropped her out of the photo.

But it's a nice composition, I'm not surprised you left it.

(and I like the picture without fancying her  )


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## TheDoctor (20 Mar 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Oh, no, I wasn't being all "careful now". It just feels like a waste without being able @ fnaar (space left to hopefully not summon him).
> 
> I nearly went the other way and said something like "if it's small enough, you won't even realise it's in there" but restrained myself



No worries, it just reminded me of the Father Ted image


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## Ian H (21 Mar 2017)

As far as folders intended for serious touring, there are Bike Fridays, Airnimals, and (not strictly folding) demountable Moultons.

But then, folk have successfully completed LEL on Bromptons—which doubtless proves something or other.


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## welsh dragon (21 Mar 2017)

Personally, i wouldn't fancy going long distance on a bike with only 16 inch wheels. My folder has 20 inch wheels. I would go long distance on them. Then again, my bike is a 20 inch frame so is quite a bit bigger than say a brommy. That frame size would be much too big for me if it was say a hybrid but its fine for a folder.


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## Ridgeways (21 Mar 2017)

welsh dragon said:


> Personally, i wouldn't fancy going long distance on a bike with only 16 inch wheels.



For pure distance purposes the wheel size is simply not particularly significant. In terms of rolling resistance, it “feels” right that larger diameters would have less, but then again Moulton tried out numerous sizes in a quest to ‘scientifically’ discover the optimum wheel size, and came up with 17” as clear winner. However dubious I might be about the data, it sufficed to persuade Moulton to go for that unusual size [at presumably greater trouble and expense], and they were undoubtedly in my experience the best ride then obtainable.

In practical terms, the only drawback to small wheels is in soft sand, where without question they are a total liability. However it has to be acknowledged that even 27” wheels are going to bog down in the same conditions, unless using very fat soft tyres, so it is hardly much of a compromise.


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## Bodhbh (21 Mar 2017)

currystomper said:


> I missed this post, but I think I agree the cheapest way to go touring on a folding bike that I would recommend would be to use a Raleigh 20 (Stowaway), I commuted on one for a few years and it was great, I would be happy to take one touring. You could go on Ebay and get a one for 50 quid and do it up, the main upgrades needed would be a good service and some modern high pressure tyres. They are really solid bikes will support the weight of all the the touring kit, simple to maintain and I think you can split them at the hinge so can pack them down to a very small size if you have the time and the need.



You could tour on a stock R20 - like most bikes - but, to be fair, to get it up to a similar spec to a modern tourer you are looking at quite a project. I pretty much upgraded everthing bar the frame, and even with that I had to spread the rear triangle to fit a 135mm hub. Still, the caliper brakes are pretty pants - most noticable on that Welsh ride where a couple of the downhills were rather hairy - the brakes working just enough to stop acceleration rather than slow the bike down. And the range on 8 speed Nexus I upgraded too, still is not quite enough for touring imo. Still otherwise the bike is great allday ride.


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## currystomper (21 Mar 2017)

I agree about the brakes, I replaced the original's with offset pivot brakes which are much better, but still hairy in the wet due to the steel rim's. 




If I was going to tour I would put higher bars on it!!


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## StuartG (21 Mar 2017)

welsh dragon said:


> Personally, i wouldn't fancy going long distance on a bike with only 16 inch wheels. My folder has 20 inch wheels. I would go long distance on them.


Having done long distance with three other Bromptons without issue as opposed to the one 20" which did develop tyre related issues - I would be interested in your reasoning.

The only serious issue I have had due to size is mountainous descents. The small rims do heat up dangerously. The ignominy was having to walk down a mountain I had cycled up!

[T'was in Welsh Wales too]


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## welsh dragon (21 Mar 2017)

StuartG said:


> Having done long distance with three other Bromptons without issue as opposed to the one 20" which did develop tyre related issues - I would be interested in your reasoning.
> 
> The only serious issue I have had due to size is mountainous descents. The small rims do heat up dangerously. The ignominy was having to walk down a mountain I had cycled up!
> 
> [T'was in Welsh Wales too]




Exactly. Going downhill on very small wheels is scary, and as i live in the foothills of the cambrian mountains, and have experienced the downhill effect, i prefer to stay away from them. My folder has kenda 1.75 inch wheels. I have never had a problem with them, going uphill or downhill.


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## StuartG (21 Mar 2017)

But if you don't have to brake its just as much fun as 700c. Indeed the faster you go the more stable it is. A disc Brommie would be a great solution.


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## Bodhbh (23 Mar 2017)

StuartG said:


> The only serious issue I have had due to size is mountainous descents. The small rims do heat up dangerously. The ignominy was having to walk down a mountain I had cycled up!
> 
> [T'was in Welsh Wales too]



I forgot about that. The heating is a pita. I don't know how far to push it but don't really want to find out. I also ended up walking down hills.


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## TheDoctor (24 Mar 2017)

I've always found that if you sit pretty upright on a Brompton (other folders are available ) you'll not go above 25-30 mph.
A few seconds of hard braking before the hairpin gets me down to a less-scary cornering speed without cooking the rims.
I've used this technique coming down Ventoux and the Col de Mort d'Imbert, both in Provence, and involving slopes of 4-12%
It's long periods of braking that heat the rims IME. I can also confirm that Bromptons are surprisingly stable at 40 mph. Well, I had to try it. A racing crouch on a Brommie looks bloody stupid!


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## Fab Foodie (24 Mar 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> I've always found that if you sit pretty upright on a Brompton (other folders are available ) you'll not go above 25-30 mph.
> A few seconds of hard braking before the hairpin gets me down to a less-scary cornering speed without cooking the rims.
> I've used this technique coming down Ventoux and the Col de Mort d'Imbert, both in Provence, and involving slopes of 4-12%
> It's long periods of braking that heat the rims IME. I can also confirm that Bromptons are surprisingly stable at 40 mph. Well, I had to try it. A racing crouch on a Brommie looks bloody stupid!


Concur with that^^^^


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## Brommyboy (24 Mar 2017)

Last year rode the NC500, carrying camping gear aboard my Brommy, averaging 50 miles per day, longest day 83 miles with about 2100m of altitude gain. Incidentally the highest speed I have recorded on a descent, on several occasions, has been 39 mph, which is only scary if the road surface is rough!


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