# The Fridays Tour 2012



## dellzeqq (9 Apr 2011)

this might get moved to 'Touring' but, if the Mods will indulge me for a few seconds, I'll try and explain myself

I've long thought that CC had within it the makings of a good tour. And, by good tour, I mean something along the lines of the FNRttC, but stretched out a bit. Instead of a night out on wheels, a day out on wheels, or several days out on wheels.

The idea would be to pootle along at conversational pace, starting early in the morning, stopping for brekky after twenty miles or so, continuing another thirty miles and then stopping for a late elevenses, and then doing another thirty miles and stopping for a late lunch. Then contemplation of life's pleasures in great company. There might be space for a midnight start, and, maybe, some night riding en route.

80 miles a day is pretty do-able if you don't weigh yourself down with all kinds of stuff. This would be a pension/B+B/Formule 1 type of thing

A tour of some distance would enable people to join in for part of the way. I think that the overall length of the tour would be between ten days and three weeks, but if people wanted to join in for a few days then that would be fine.

I've two thoughts on the route. The first is LEJoG. This would go south of Bristol and then east of the Pennines and then up to Edinburgh and on to the 'old A9'. A shorter alternative would be London to John O'Groats, which is a great ride, but I'd imagine that a fair few folk would like to tick the LEJoG box.

The second is London to Napoli. This would go to Newhaven, Dieppe, Paris, Lyon, over the Alps and down the Ligurian coast, take a diversion to Rome and then head south to the Bay of Naples.

I think that May/June would be good. Italy would be fearsome hot, but if we did most of our riding before noon we'd not be too uncomfortable.

There'd be a bit of organisation involved. Accommodation would have to be found and booked. I'd be up for that.

I'd welcome comments.


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## frank9755 (9 Apr 2011)

Friday night ride to the amalfi coast!
Sounds wonderful; I'd be up for it.


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## martint235 (9 Apr 2011)

Finances (and SWMBO) allowing, this sounds like a great idea!


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## Becs (9 Apr 2011)

I would be up for LeJog (I was already hoping to do this) doubt I'd get enough time off for the other trip I'm afraid. Sounds like a fab idea either way!


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## User10119 (9 Apr 2011)

Big tours really aren't an option for me until the boys are big enough to be abandoned. And I'm always restricted by ony being able to do stuff in school holidays to start off with. But I'm quite efficient at providing cake stops, if your route goes nearby.


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## gbs (9 Apr 2011)

Intriguing; I like the dip in/dip out possibilty. May/June looks good - before the peak holiday travel and summer heat. I will watch this topic.


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## PpPete (9 Apr 2011)

Quite interested in LEJoG at an 80 mile a day pace.
Did a JoGLE last year at 50 miles/day and would have much preferred to ride further each day, but was constrained by other members of the party (youngest was only 13, so can't complain too much) 

Love the idea of going to Italy though.

Or even a "round" in France/Belgium , say a quick flat run down the west coast to the Dordogne, across to the Ventoux, and back through the Jura / Vosges / Ardennes. Just so as not have the hassle of shipping bikes back ....


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## ChrisBailey (9 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> The second is London to Napoli. This would go to Newhaven, Dieppe, Paris, Lyon, over the Alps and down the Ligurian coast, take a diversion to Rome and then head south to the Bay of Naples.
> 
> I think that May/June would be good. Italy would be fearsome hot, but if we did most of our riding before noon we'd not be too uncomfortable.
> 
> ...



Simon, this is the kind of cycling holiday I arrange each year (Pyrenees ths year). So I'll register my interest. 

I suspect LEJOG would allow people to join in and the logistics are a factor more easier and Italian drivers are scary, but I'd still vote for Italy (via France, which is fantastic as I think everyone would agree).

Chris


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## StuAff (10 Apr 2011)

Both ideas are splendid. Even though I'm doing a LeJOG in a few weeks, the 'been there done that' factor wouldn't put me off. And Italy? For cycling? Surely not!  I'd have to say though, my own preference would be for Tuscany...the delights of Florence & perhaps the opportunity to visit my favourite bike maker. 

Support could be quite easy: One van to act as luggage carrier/sag wagon, everyone chips in for fuel costs etc.


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## PpPete (11 Apr 2011)

I was very impressed by the area around Milan.... lunatic Italian drivers, but they calm down instantly a cycling paceline comes in to view, and give plenty of space to the cyclist.


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## StuartG (11 Apr 2011)

I have a tendency to ride the wrong side of the road so heading south would appeal to me.

Except not being the hardened type for whom an alpine pass before breakfast is a welcome appetiser - going the whole hog to Napoli is kinda a bit too adventurous (and exactly how many D-locks do you carry in case you can't jump a traffic light there?)

I was thinking if there could be a wimps only option to maybe cut off in France and return by some sort of triangular route to take in an extra wine growing/drinking district or three? Could still be a thousand mile/kilometer/litre trip ...


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## dellzeqq (11 Apr 2011)

I talked this through with Becs, Luke and Davy on Sunday, and it occured to me that there is a point at which a van, laden with tents and spares, would become economic.

If, for example, you costed B+B at £40 a night and camping at £10 a night then that's a considerable saving if you had twelve or fifteen people. Camping isn't everybody's cup of tea (I name no names) and eleven nights of camping in succession might bring out the Tent Peg Assassin in some of us, but if a van and driver were to cost £150 a day then you'd have scope for mixing camping with B+B. You'd also be able to put spare wheels and so on in the van. 

How about Lands End - Launceston - Bridgewater - Moreton in the Marsh - Bingham - York in five days?


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## User10119 (11 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> How about Lands End - Launceston - Bridgewater - Moreton in the Marsh - Bingham - York CrinklyCake Central in five days?



I think you mean....


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## rich p (11 Apr 2011)

I rode from Brighton to Bologna a couple of years ago, fully loaded with camping and minor cooking gear. 50 miles per day was enough on a 3 or 4 week ride as far as I'm concerned. Hard enough but allows for minor tourist stops, drinks breaks and anything else.

It's worth bearing in mind that campsites aren't cheap in Italy - we paid between 15 and 30 euros per night for a 2 man tent. If you were to share tents it would reduce the cost per person and might lead to an interesting evening sweepstake.


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## CharlieB (11 Apr 2011)

I'd be up for a LEJoG. I wanted to do it solo this year, but when I sat down and did the money sums, it was going to cost more arms and legs than I have. 
Perhaps the economies of scale for a larger group would make it more affordable?

Italy a fab idea, too.


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## theclaud (11 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I talked this through with Becs, Luke and Davy on Sunday, and it occured to me that there is a point at which a van, laden with tents and spares, would become economic.
> 
> If, for example, you costed B+B at £40 a night and camping at £10 a night then that's a considerable saving if you had twelve or fifteen people. Camping isn't everybody's cup of tea (I name no names) and *eleven nights of camping in succession might bring out the Tent Peg Assassin in some of us*, but if a van and driver were to cost £150 a day then you'd have scope for mixing camping with B+B. You'd also be able to put spare wheels and so on in the van.
> 
> How about Lands End - Launceston - Bridgewater - Moreton in the Marsh - Bingham - York in five days?



Any more than two nights, I reckon. Any more than zero if it's pissing with rain. I'm up for the tour, though. Love the Italy idea, but I'd be in for an English jaunt, in which case I'm quite a fan of hostels. Wouldn't mind giving 80 miles a day a go if not carrying much, but the odd day off could be good if it's a long tour - I'd join in for as much as I could afford. If it's in this country I might be able to volunteer a van.


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## rb58 (11 Apr 2011)

I'm supposedly doing LeJog next year with a friend, however, his plans seem to be..... fluid....... so I would be interested in this as an alternative. 

That would make me a possible maybe!


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## Aperitif (11 Apr 2011)

rb58 said:


> I'm supposedly doing LeJog next year with a friend, however, his plans seem to be..... fluid....... so I would be interested in this as an alternative.
> 
> That would make me a possible maybe!



Ah - do it Ross - you'll have a new bike by then!


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## redjedi (11 Apr 2011)

I could be tempted by either depending on dates and finances.

The Italy one would only interest me if we could go via Treviglio


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Apr 2011)

up for some/any sort of tour en masse certainly, not so keen on camping though. A LEJoG with the FNRttC massive, now that would be doing it in style, but the journey is more important than the destination...


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## frank9755 (11 Apr 2011)

A few more thoughts. 
My first choice would be France and Italy. I think Naples is a great destination. 80 miles per day is also a good distance assuming ppl are travelling light. Ctc tours tend to be shorter and there are some early finishes. 
I rode through France last may (80 miles per day with camping gear) was great cycling, much better than the UK. Wd love to do Italy. For camping Wd need to be a bit less distance per day for a group. 
Lejog has always struck me as a box-ticking exercise, with lots of transport hassles so wd be my last choice I prefer rides from home (as it happens I'm writing from a campsite in dorset on my way to LE) ,
Not so keen on supported as it just feels wrong. Like to carry my own gear / be self sufficient.


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## marinyork (11 Apr 2011)

GregCollins said:


> up for some/any sort of tour en masse certainly, not so keen on camping though. A LEJoG with the FNRttC massive, now that would be doing it in style, but the journey is more important than the destination...



Get drunk and go round the Isle of Wight a few times Blackadder style?


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## Andrij (11 Apr 2011)

marinyork said:


> Get drunk and go round the Isle of Wight a few times Blackadder style?


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## david1701 (12 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I talked this through with Becs, Luke and Davy on Sunday, and it occured to me that there is a point at which a van, laden with tents and spares, would become economic.
> 
> If, for example, you costed B+B at £40 a night and camping at £10 a night then that's a considerable saving if you had twelve or fifteen people. Camping isn't everybody's cup of tea (I name no names) and eleven nights of camping in succession might bring out the Tent Peg Assassin in some of us, but if a van and driver were to cost £150 a day then you'd have scope for mixing camping with B+B. You'd also be able to put spare wheels and so on in the van.
> 
> How about Lands End - Launceston - Bridgewater - Moreton in the Marsh - Bingham - York in five days?



I love the sound of Italy but its likely beyond me (we'll see how training goes ) if you went for the short one I'd probably muck in LE-Bridgewater and the run home alone


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## dellzeqq (12 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> A few more thoughts.
> My first choice would be France and Italy. I think Naples is a great destination. 80 miles per day is also a good distance assuming ppl are travelling light. Ctc tours tend to be shorter and there are some early finishes.
> I rode through France last may (80 miles per day with camping gear) was great cycling, much better than the UK. Wd love to do Italy. For camping Wd need to be a bit less distance per day for a group.
> *Lejog has always struck me as a box-ticking exercise,* with lots of transport hassles so wd be my last choice I prefer rides from home (as it happens I'm writing from a campsite in dorset on my way to LE) ,
> Not so keen on supported as it just feels wrong. Like to carry my own gear / be self sufficient.


It is often precisely that, but it could be so much more. If the company is right, the route is right (and that, of course, depends on what 'right' is) and there's an opportunity to drink in some of the culture and history then it could be a very fine cycle ride.


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## GrumpyGregry (12 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> It is often precisely that, but it could be so much more. If the company is right, the route is right (and that, of course, depends on what 'right' is) and there's an opportunity to drink in some of the culture and history  then it could be a very fine cycle ride.



sorted for priorities


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## GrumpyGregry (12 Apr 2011)

marinyork said:


> Get drunk and go round the Isle of Wight a few times Blackadder style?



I've done that tour! Staying drunk was the hard part....


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## Aperitif (12 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> It is often precisely that, but it could be so much more. If the company is right, the route is right (and that, of course, depends on what 'right' is) and there's an opportunity to drink in some of the* pubs full *of culture and history then it could be a very fine cycle ride.






GregCollins said:


> sorted for priorities



An all-inclusive stance. (I know you rugby types don't care too much, as long as there is an abundance of free-flowing, quick setting amnesia available.)


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## Ravenbait (12 Apr 2011)

I'd be interested if it reached more northern environs, and the idea of camping doesn't put me off, either.

Sam


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## frank9755 (12 Apr 2011)

Can't do quotes on my mobile gadget but re DZs comment ref my comment on LEJoG, I'm sure it cd be great ride but its just that the logistics are messy. It's always easier to do something else. That may be easier for a group, but even so it will still take a day when you could be heading south to where cyling is more joyous!
Id still come if it was LEJOG but I just think Naples Wd be better!


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## Aperitif (12 Apr 2011)

(^ Double posting = in tents I.T. ) Naples not staples for Francesco. Naples Yellow is a poisonous colour, well the pigment anyway. Lead something or other... antimony? can't remember... Lead Antimoniate!


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## Wobblers (12 Apr 2011)

Aperitif said:


> (^ Double posting = in tents I.T. ) Naples not staples for Francesco. Naples Yellow is a poisonous colour, well the pigment anyway. Lead something or other... antimony? can't remember... Lead Antimoniate!



You'll be fine as long as you weren't planning on _eating_ it! At least, that was what I was telling my students in the lab last week...


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## Wobblers (12 Apr 2011)

I'd be interested in this... though as I haven't any idea where I'll be or doing in a year's time it's a little hard to be definite.



dellzeqq said:


> It is often precisely that, but it could be so much more. If the company is right, the route is right (and that, of course, depends on what 'right' is) and there's an opportunity to drink in some of the culture and history then it could be a very fine cycle ride.



Sounds intriguing. Are you suggesting we quaff sample all the real ales along the route?


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## Speicher (12 Apr 2011)

McWobble said:


> You'll be fine as long as you weren't planning on _eating_ it! At least, that was what I was telling my students in the lab last week...



Does plumbum enter the equation at this juncture?


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## Speicher (12 Apr 2011)

McWobble said:


> I'd be interested in this... though as I haven't any idea where I'll be or doing in a year's time it's a little hard to be definite.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds intriguing. Are you suggesting we quaff sample all the real ales along the route?




In that case I will start some training. Unfortunately Launceston has not got a station.  
All the other points have.


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## david1701 (13 Apr 2011)

Speicher said:


> In that case I will start some training. Unfortunately Launceston has not got a station.
> All the other points have.



there are some 10-20 miles ish away though if you do need to bail


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

I've been taking advice and thinking on some of the things said here.

1. There's a very good ride to be had between Cannes to Genova (I found out that a friend of a friend had led one), but it's not a camping type ride - it's sporty. There are stretches which take nerve - cars pass quickly and closely, and some of the downhills are really suitable for road bikes only.

2. If I apply my own test to the London-Napoli idea then it doesn't stack up too well. The ride lacks identity - it hasn't really got a story behind it. There's a six day haul through France, which has nothing to do with the beginning or the end. It falls under the heading of an adventure rather than a tour, albeit a rather truncated adventure. I may think this because I know very little about the geography of France.

3. LEJoG does have identity, but it needs to be a pleasurable ride. That, in A-road Britain, isn't easy south of (say) a line from Worcester to Northampton.

4. Judging by the answers here there'd be more takers for a LEJoG (or portions of a LEJoG) than there would be a London - Napoli. People seem to be interested in the idea of 'plugging' in to the ride for a day or two - and I think that could be great fun.

I haven't reached any conclustions yet, but I thought I'd run this by you.


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## Wobblers (13 Apr 2011)

Speicher said:


> Does plumbum enter the equation at this juncture?



Not just pipes, the Romans flavoured their wine with lead acetate!! 



Speicher said:


> In that case I will start some training. Unfortunately Launceston has not got a station.
> All the other points have.



I'm sure your cycling good enough that you don't need to train... oh wait, it's not that sort of training you mean, is it? I recommend strengthening exercises for the arm and elbow...


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## Wobblers (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I've been taking advice and thinking on some of the things said here.
> 
> 1. There's a very good ride to be had between Cannes to Genova (I found out that a friend of a friend had led one), but it's not a camping type ride - it's sporty. There are stretches which take nerve - cars pass quickly and closely, and some of the downhills are really suitable for road bikes only.
> 
> ...



I don't need to point out to you that the A-roads would be very quiet at night, do I!! A day start from Land's End isn't obligatory: a FNRttC style start at midnight would be more... er, poetic? adventurous? ...as well as missing the worst of the traffic on Cornwall's A-roads.


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

McWobble said:


> I don't need to point out to you that the A-roads would be very quiet at night, do I!! A day start from Land's End isn't obligatory: a FNRttC style start at midnight would be more... er, poetic? adventurous? ...as well as missing the worst of the traffic on Cornwall's A-roads.


I had given this some thought. It's not the first eighty miles to Launceston that bothers me so much as the Launceston to Exter stretch (once through Exeter the road on to Bridgewater is a lot of fun). It seemed to me (and this isn't a plan, merely a thought) that an early hours start from Launceston, leading to an extended breakfast in Exeter, an extended lunch in Taunton and an extended high tea in Bridgewater might be good....

I've not really thought this through, but.... 

Lands End to Launceston 79 miles. Not bad. Traffic west of Camborne isn't light, and there are some do-able diversions which reduces the travel on the A30 to about 50 miles

Launceston to Bridgewater 79 miles - early fast start, latter half of the day very pleasant

Bridgewater to Moreton in Marsh 91 miles - through Bristol which is interesting, but slow, and then on to Cirencester. Lots on the A429 which I don't know anything about

Moreton in Marsh to Gunthorpe 83 miles Fosse Way. The latter part of the day would be quite wonderful. Gunthorpe is on the River Trent and marks a kind of boundary....

Gunthorpe to York 75 miles. A lot on A-roads, but southerners will be surprised by the lack of traffic

York to Tow Law only 70 miles, but the last 15 miles is tough

Tow Law to Jedburgh 66 miles but very, very tough

Jedburgh to Glenfarg 79 - early start and breakfast in Old Reekie. There's a sweet diversion through Nether Blainslie. The road to Glenfarg is superb.

Glenfarg to Kingussie 82 - a delight

Kingussie to Dornoch 82 - even more of a delight

Dornoch to John O'Groats 79 - transcandental cycling happiness, with all your hopes and dreams rolled in to one ecstatic ball........... 

Of course you're right about riding at night. It would be nice to include a night ride or two, but it would leave people feeling a bit knocked out afterwards.


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## Ravenbait (13 Apr 2011)

Given plenty of notice I'd be more than up for joining in at breakfast in Embra.

Sam


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## CharlieB (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I had given this some thought. It's not the first eighty miles to Launceston that bothers me so much as the Launceston to Exter stretch (once through Exeter the road on to Bridgewater is a lot of fun). It seemed to me (and this isn't a plan, merely a thought) that an early hours start from Launceston, leading to an extended breakfast in Exeter, an extended lunch in Taunton and an extended high tea in Bridgewater might be good....
> 
> I've not really thought this through, but....
> 
> ...



Reads like the words of a man of experience, Dell.

And all that sounds amazing to a newbie to this kind of adventure. What accommodation would be envisaged at those interval points?

Night rides, perhaps saved for the less spectacular and / or more dangerous sections?


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## david1701 (13 Apr 2011)

it would add on some time but the LE up stretch could be done along the coastal roads which are quieter and more beautiful but a lot more hilly (so slow going)


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

they could, but with something like due deference to your part of the world, the story of the ride is that Cornwall is the beginning. There's something definitive about Lands End, for all that the building is a bit of a non-event. Thought of as a story views of the sea are about the end of the ride, rather than the beginning, and the crossing of the Forth, Dornoch Firth and the run down to the sea at Golspie are hints of arrival. Going via (say) Bude is kind of like saying you haven't left.

The journey from Lands End to John O'Groats is about going through the country, appreciating the make up of the geography both physical and human. Launceston, Camborne, Redruth and Bodmin are, in their own way, important, besides being markers along the way. Moreton in Marsh, Gunthorpe, Selby, Tow Law, Corbridge, Jedburgh and the like mark out the route just as much as the big cities like Leicester, York and Edinburgh and the geographical features like the Cotswolds, the River Trent, Carter Bar and the Ord of Caithness.


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## fimm (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Tow Law to Jedburgh 66 miles but very, very tough



Where's Tow Law? You're not planning on going over Carter Bar, are you? If you are I WANT TO COME TOO!!!


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I had given this some thought. It's not the first eighty miles to Launceston that bothers me so much as the Launceston to Exter stretch (once through Exeter the road on to Bridgewater is a lot of fun). It seemed to me (and this isn't a plan, merely a thought) that an early hours start from Launceston, leading to an extended breakfast in Exeter, an extended lunch in Taunton and an extended high tea in Bridgewater might be good....



Launceston to Exeter isn't bad at all, I'd go so far as to say it is a delight, if you simply keep off the A30 and use the 'old' road instead. It is described here in another place by the splendid Mick F of the CTC. I've ridden it both ways in August. Proper Job.


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

CharlieB said:


> And all that sounds amazing to a newbie to this kind of adventure. What accommodation would be envisaged at those interval points?
> 
> Night rides, perhaps saved for the less spectacular and / or more dangerous sections?


that's the big question. A double room in a hotel costs (say) £60 in Tow Law and over £110 in Moreton in Marsh. Some people aren't going to want to pay that. They might prefer to pay £50 for a double in a B&B, or even £13 for a two person tent. They might want to mix it up a bit - camp at Moreton (there's a combined B+B and campsite near to the town), hotel in Tow Law - but, to make that work you really could do with a bit of support.


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

GregCollins said:


> Launceston to Exeter isn't bad at all, I'd go so far as to say it is a delight, if you simply keep off the A30 and use the 'old' road instead. It is described here in another place by the splendid Mick F of the CTC. I've ridden it both ways in August. Proper Job.


I wouldn't dream of doing any group ride through Devon without consulting the splenditious Mick F. Apart from anything else he's mates with my brother.


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

fimm said:


> Where's Tow Law? You're not planning on going over Carter Bar, are you? If you are I WANT TO COME TOO!!!


it's an option. TC has a different option, and one that I need to know about. I do think thought that riding a laden touring bike from Corbridge to the junction with the A696 would be very hard work indeed, and that it would be a bit previous to make a decision before having some idea of who was coming.....


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## fimm (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it's an option. TC has a different option, and one that I need to know about. I do think thought that riding a laden touring bike from Corbridge to the junction with the A696 would be very hard work indeed, and that it would be a bit previous to make a decision before having some idea of who was coming.....



Not to mention the bit from the junction with the A696 to the top of Carter Bar... which is the part of the road that I know, having grown up down the A696 a bit with grandparents in Scotland. 

I'm not a serious candiate for the tour BTW, just being nosey. I would love to cycle over Carter Bar sometime, though, that would be fantastic.


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## dellzeqq (13 Apr 2011)

fimm said:


> Not to mention the bit from the junction with the A696 to the top of Carter Bar...


that's the easy bit. Trust me. When you turn left at the junction you can give yourself a survivor's medal


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## david1701 (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> they could, but with something like due deference to your part of the world, the story of the ride is that Cornwall is the beginning. There's something definitive about Lands End, for all that the building is a bit of a non-event. Thought of as a story views of the sea are about the end of the ride, rather than the beginning, and the crossing of the Forth, Dornoch Firth and the run down to the sea at Golspie are hints of arrival. Going via (say) Bude is kind of like saying you haven't left.
> 
> The journey from Lands End to John O'Groats is about going through the country, appreciating the make up of the geography both physical and human. Launceston, Camborne, Redruth and Bodmin are, in their own way, important, besides being markers along the way. Moreton in Marsh, Gunthorpe, Selby, Tow Law, Corbridge, Jedburgh and the like mark out the route just as much as the big cities like Leicester, York and Edinburgh and the geographical features like the Cotswolds, the River Trent, Carter Bar and the Ord of Caithness.



I'm with you its more about building the journey than just travelling on nice roads, seems counter intuitive but makes sense after I re read it


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## Becs (13 Apr 2011)

I'm getting excited now! At least there's a whole year to get better at hills!


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Apr 2011)

fimm said:


> *Where's Tow Law?* You're not planning on going over Carter Bar, are you? If you are I WANT TO COME TOO!!!



As a child I spent every school holiday in Co. Durham,, with the Aged P's childless brother and his wife, and would regularly cycle from Craghead to Tow Law by way of Burnhope and Lanchester in my early teens. I bet I've not been to/through Tow Law in 30 years.....

Headley Hill, Headley Hope, Sunniside, Quaking Houses, New Kyo, Annfield Plain, High Stoop, Macari's Ice Cream, Dandelion & Burdock, Tudor Crisps, stotties, your question has sparked a tidal wave of memories and provoked a lump in my throat.



dellzeqq said:


> I wouldn't dream of doing any group ride through Devon without consulting the *splenditious* Mick F. Apart from anything else he's mates with my brother.



He is though isn't he..? A complete and utter star.


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## italiafirenze (13 Apr 2011)

Does sounds like lots of fun. London to Napoli would be super.


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## User482 (13 Apr 2011)

Dell, I won't be able to come touring next year, but I'd be happy to lead a group through north Somerset/ Bristol/ South Gloucs. I can keep you to quiet(ish) back roads that are nonetheless reasonably direct. And, more importantly advise on pubs in Bristol.

I kept a diary of sorts when I did LEJOG a couple of years back, so I have a list of roads best avoided.


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## theclaud (13 Apr 2011)

User482 said:


> Dell, I won't be able to come touring next year, but I'd be happy to lead a group through north Somerset/ Bristol/ South Gloucs. I can keep you to quiet(ish) back roads that are nonetheless reasonably direct. *And, more importantly advise on pubs in Bristol*.



This must be what he meant when he said progress through Bristol would be interesting but slow...


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## frank9755 (13 Apr 2011)

On the subject of the superlative MickF, I met him today! Descending into gunnislake someone said hello and some short introductions allowed me to guess his identity. He rode with me for a while, which gave him the chance to give me some ditrections and allowed me to thank him in person for all the help he's given me on the internet! Really nice chap, in real life as well as virtually. 

Sounds like most people want to do LEJoG but, if people are wavering, here are a few reasons why heading south is attractive. 
The weather is better and gets better each day
Food is better. Much better.
Hotels are cheaper
Roads are less busy
Drivers more considerate to cyclists
France is easier to get to than lands end. 
Anywhere is easier to get back from than jog
Going abroad is more of an adventure
UK hills are ok but theres nothing like getting your teeth into a proper 1000m climb up an alpine col
There's as much history, and interesting geography in France / Italy as the UK - just we don't know it so well.
There are loads of LEJoG tours already so its hardly original or uniqe - the IBM of cycle tours :-)


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## martint235 (13 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> On the subject of the superlative MickF, I met him today! Descending into gunnislake someone said hello and some short introductions allowed me to guess his identity. He rode with me for a while, which gave him the chance to give me some ditrections and allowed me to thank him in person for all the help he's given me on the internet! Really nice chap, in real life as well as virtually.
> 
> Sounds like most people want to do LEJoG but, if people are wavering, here are a few reasons why heading south is attractive.
> The weather is better and gets better each day
> ...



I'm definitely more in favour of south. It is as Frank says more of an adventure. However, my vote counts for nothing really until I can arrange some funding.


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## david1701 (13 Apr 2011)

also do we need to say anything more than French girls, except perhaps Italian girls.

Dam I need to get another passport


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## Aperitif (13 Apr 2011)

david1701 said:


> also do we need to say anything more than French girls, except perhaps Itailian girls.
> 
> Dam I need to get another passport



Italian girls only have an 'i' for you, and you'll need an 'n+1'	 I have never cycled in Italy, or with Italian people. French people are great to meet and pass the time of day with - until the franglais runs out. Often, an aperitif is the last thing anyone wants.


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## david1701 (13 Apr 2011)

I love Italy, its beautiful

oh and I'd rather be ignored by Italian girls than adored by Northern ones


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## User10119 (13 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Gunthorpe to York 75 miles. A lot on A-roads, but southerners will be surprised by the lack of traffic
> 
> York to Tow Law only 70 miles, but the last 15 miles is tough



Completely serious offer, by the way. 10 or so people can fit in our place, so long as they don't all want to sit down at the same time, so depending on how many nutters you recruit you could potentially have a free feed (breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner, any day from a Saturday to a Tuesday or whenever in school holidays, take your pick) in York. 

We (just) managed to fit about 10 people and their bikes in and around here when we did our night ride to Whitby, and I hadn't even tidied up that day.


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## frank9755 (15 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Sounds like most people want to do LEJoG but, if people are wavering, here are a few reasons why heading south is attractive.
> The weather is better and gets better each day
> Food is better. Much better.
> Hotels are cheaper
> ...



I missed out a couple of important ones which I can speak on for experience about France but I believe would also apply to Italy:
- Scenery: while parts of the UK can look fine on a nice day, the French countryside is consistently prettier and, in the hilly bits, dramatically so. 
- Small towns and villages. The French don't do cities very well (in my opinion) but the smaller places, that you tend to pass through when touring, are generally a joy. Britain is similar (most of our cities are not that great but there are many fine towns and villages) but the French ones are just that bit prettier and have the local shops/boulangeries plus the individual charm and character which we seem determined to stamp out of ours.


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## coffeejo (15 Apr 2011)

Depending on finances, fitness and so on (and the availability of a dog-sitter) I'm tentatively putting myself in the "I'm interested" camp. 

Right now, the southern end of LEJoG sounds most appealing, but that's mainly my n00bie "you want to cycle HOW FAR?" legs speaking.


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## User482 (15 Apr 2011)

Yes, I've only cycled in France a couple of times, but I was amazed by the courteousness routinely displayed by their drivers. Especially as it is at complete odds with their attitude to other motorists.


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## Aperitif (15 Apr 2011)

And the roads are like billiard tables for the most part. I'm not talking beardy - wandering lonely as a cloud stuff down cart tracks, I mean the D routes etc


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## StuAff (15 Apr 2011)

Aperitif said:


> And the roads are like billiard tables for the most part. I'm not talking beardy - wandering lonely as a cloud stuff down cart tracks, I mean the D routes etc



Plenty of those aren't (at least between Calais and Paris).


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## Ravenbait (15 Apr 2011)

I can categorically say that if it went to France or Italy I wouldn't be able to come.

Finances wouldn't permit it. At least on a LEJOG option those of us who don't have the disposable income for jaunts to the continent could join at least sections of it for relatively little expense.

Sam


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## dellzeqq (15 Apr 2011)

I'm thinking LEJoG 2012, Italy 2013, SFNY 2014


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## Aperitif (15 Apr 2011)

StuAff said:


> Plenty of those aren't (at least between Calais and Paris).



Ride a decent bike and don't carry a dustbin on your back Stu - all roads are good then!


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## StuAff (15 Apr 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Ride a decent bike and don't carry a dustbin on your back Stu - all roads are good then!



'A decent bike'? How very dare you!!


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## frank9755 (15 Apr 2011)

Aperitif said:


> And the roads are like billiard tables for the most part. I'm not talking beardy - wandering lonely as a cloud stuff down cart tracks, I mean the D routes etc



I can't believe I missed out that one!
Last year while riding through France I felt that we ought to put up a sign at Dover saying "Welcome to England - chaussee deformee"


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## StuartG (15 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> SFNY 2014


With new improved Tail End Charlie protection ...


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## Shadow (15 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm thinking LEJoG 2012, Italy 2013, SFNY 2014



Scuse my hignorance of geography of england, or even europe, surely you don't mean san francisco to new york?!!


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## theclaud (15 Apr 2011)

Shadow said:


> Scuse my hignorance of geography of england, or even europe, *surely you don't mean san francisco to new york?!!*



I believe he does!


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## Shadow (15 Apr 2011)

theclaud said:


> I believe he does!



Incroyable! That surely is a huge pile of talc!!


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## Aperitif (15 Apr 2011)

Shadow said:


> Scuse my hignorance of geography of england, or even europe, surely you don't mean san francisco to new york?!!



It's only because the tourmeisterman, man, has A haight Ashbury kaftan that he bought first time around and, before it becomes moth fodder, a thinly veiled 'tour' becomes the result. The ingredients are for all to add. A tour could get done for 'using recreational bikes'.


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## frank9755 (15 Apr 2011)

theclaud said:


> I believe he does!



I was trying to work out what it stood for. Now I wish I didn't know!


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## srw (15 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> I was trying to work out what it stood for. Now I wish I didn't know!



Suomi Finland to NorwaY. It's a short, but cold, ride.


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## Aperitif (15 Apr 2011)

srw said:


> Suomi Finland to NorwaY. It's a short, but cold, ride.



Wrong kind of snow man.


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## rb58 (15 Apr 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm thinking LEJoG 2012, Italy 2013, *SFNY 2014
> *



Will that be Friday night? Where do I sign up?


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## alans (20 Apr 2011)

Dandelion & Burdock, Tudor Crisps,

Proper cycling fodder  

My grand daughter wants to ride E2E.
Our plan is to do the C2C first to introduce her to the routine of riding day after day.I reckon this will either change her mind or provide encouragement.
I'll watch this thread develop with interest


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## PpPete (20 Apr 2011)

SFNY 2014?
Put me and OH on the list.



alans said:


> My grand daughter wants to ride E2E.
> Our plan is to do the C2C first to introduce her to the routine of riding day after day.I reckon this will either change her mind or provide encouragement.



Surprising how quickly they adapt to multi day riding. Although the youngsters on our youth club JoGLE last year (youngest 12, oldest 16) had done some 50-60 mile training rides, none of them had done successive long days in the saddle before setting off from John o'Groats, but coped perfectly well with 50 miles down to Helmsdale immediately followed by 70 miles to Inverness, and after that it just became "routine".


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## DaveJ (20 Apr 2011)

Roscoff to Nice is a great ride. Diagonal North West to South East across France. About the same distance as LEJoG. Mostly quiet roads and some spectacular scenery.

Ferry over to Roscoff from Plymouth at the beginning, and fly or train back from Nice. If the van was big enough to fit most of the bikes in, that would simplify the return considerably.

Dave


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## dellzeqq (21 Apr 2011)

DaveJ said:


> Roscoff to Nice is a great ride. Diagonal North West to South East across France. About the same distance as LEJoG. Mostly quiet roads and some spectacular scenery.
> 
> Ferry over to Roscoff from Plymouth at the beginning, and fly or train back from Nice. If the van was big enough to fit most of the bikes in, that would simplify the return considerably.
> 
> Dave


a stimulating post, Dave. Would you be willing to contact me on fnrttc@yahoo.co.uk?


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## rich p (21 Apr 2011)

I've got the PDF route with maps and written description for the Manche to the Med route if you're interested. (Caen to Narbonne if memory serves)


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## dellzeqq (21 Apr 2011)

rich p said:


> I've got the PDF route with maps and written description for the Manche to the Med route if you're interested. (Caen to Narbonne if memory serves)


that would be really interesting. 

I'm fixed on the idea that D roads are the way to go, but I'd welcome a different view. I'd also be interested in accommodation costs.


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## rich p (21 Apr 2011)

I'm a camper, if you'll forgive the expression, so the costs are between 5 and 15 euros p.n between 2 sharers. B&B costs will be 30-50 euros pn per double room, I'd guess.

I only ever travel on D roads in France but they can vary between little or no traffic to busy, busy roads. It's a case of intuition and luck and colour on the Michelin map. White roads are invariably smaller and nicer than yellow ones but the penalty paid is that they aren't always direct and they take in more hills. A compromise is the best way.

If a yellow D road runs between 2 fair sized towns, the chances of it being busier are greater.

I'll email you the PDF Simon.


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## theclaud (21 Apr 2011)

DaveJ said:


> If the van was big enough to fit most of the bikes in, that would simplify the return considerably.



Assuming I'm still in this job in 2012, it's possible that I could borrow a van. Subject to availability and all that. It would take a lot of bikes.


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## Moodyman (21 Apr 2011)

I'm in for the 2012 LEJOG.

I've wanted to tour for a while, but didn't like the idea of doing it solo.

Would definitely do the Central to Northern England section of the LEJOG.

Prefer camping to keep costs down, but will equally consider cheap hostels. Anywhere with shower facilities will be nice.


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## frank9755 (21 Apr 2011)

DaveJ said:


> Roscoff to Nice is a great ride. Diagonal North West to South East across France. About the same distance as LEJoG. Mostly quiet roads and some spectacular scenery.
> 
> Ferry over to Roscoff from Plymouth at the beginning, and fly or train back from Nice. If the van was big enough to fit most of the bikes in, that would simplify the return considerably.
> 
> Dave



Roscoff to Nice sounds good. Roscoff is a great starting place - a different league from English ferry ports - and Nice a good destination.

Last May I did Dieppe to Montpellier. It was fabulous. I chose the route mainly from ease of logistics and just planned day by day. I was camping (€3-8 per night and €15 in Montpellier. Whole trip including ferry and Easyjet home cost <£500 and I wasn't trying not to spend money). I mostly used D roads, which are often completely deserted. While I did the odd bit of main road too, and it was fine on my own (and sometimes great fun) I'd recommend the D roads for a group and with a modicum of advance planning that would be easy to achieve. 

The weather got better every day as I got closer to the Med, there was hardly any traffic, the towns and villages were great, wonderful food, friendly people, great scenery, and so on.

The highlight was the Massif Central. Some great climbs then drifting dreamily through meadows full of millions of little daffodils, with no traffic on the roads. If there was a heaven it would be modelled it on those Alpine meadows of the Massif Central. Unless they did it on the gorges du Tarn, the descent into St Enemie....

But there weren't really any lowlights. 

I did a write-up for my club mag, which I've copied in here.


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## LouiseL (24 Apr 2011)

I'm definitely interested apart from anything going over the Alps. My hill climbing ability leaves a lot be be desired and I'm nervous around sheer drops. The view ascending Glen Ogle on Lejog was wasted on me as I concentrated resolutely on the tarmac in front of my wheel! I got some nice piccies though by pointing the camera one way and looking in the other direction!


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## mmmmartin (26 Apr 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Friday night ride to the amalfi coast!
> Sounds wonderful; I'd be up for it.


Well if Frank is going I had better come along as well, just to keep an eye on his breakfasting habits.


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## Eurygnomes (28 Apr 2011)

After finally realising that this is planning for 2012 *phew*, I'd like to sign up - tentatively - for LeJOG with B&Bs (maybe one or two nights in a tent). I'm going to be doing some professional exams etc. around that time, so it would depend a bit on timing. And it's before the nightmare of the Olympics starts, for which I'm not allowed to leave the city in case there's some awful outbreak. Happy days!

Of course, first, I have to replace my front wheel...

(little steps, little steps).


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## redfalo (7 May 2011)

I'm definitely interested in doing the LeJoG next year.


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## StuAff (7 May 2011)

I'm not entirely sure about doing the whole thing, but a few days would be good. Particularly involving York, that offers a splendid opportunity to visit my dearest chum in that neck of the woods.


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## StuAff (7 May 2011)

Eurygnomes said:


> And it's before the nightmare of the Olympics starts, for which I'm not allowed to leave the city in case there's some awful outbreak.
> Of course, first, I have to replace my front wheel...
> 
> (little steps, little steps).



There will be awful outbreaks. Of hyperbole, hype, bull... 

What happened to your wheel?


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## wanda2010 (8 May 2011)

Not read the whole thread and hills are not my friend (I'm trying, really I am) but I'm in, subject to dates, finances and new bike


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## HelenD123 (8 May 2011)

Ooh, only just seen this thread. I've been well and truly bitten by the touring bug and this sounds fun. I'm even learning to travel light so might manage 80 miles a day. I've no idea what I'll be doing next year but might be interested in any of the options, except SFNY!


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## Becs (9 May 2011)

I've got 3 buddies that are interested in LeJOG too. Looking forward to it!


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## CharlieB (11 May 2011)

A definite for me. I just need to convince the powers that be at work that they can manage without me during what is a prohibited holiday week in any month for my department.


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## TimO (12 May 2011)

I've also only just got to this thread (as is the norm with me!), but all of the options sounds quite promising.

I must admit, if I was doing an end-to-end (or other longish ride), most of the luggage taking an alternative route, would be preferable to lugging it around on a touring bike for a week or three.

I can live with most options, accommodation-wise, but camping and sleeping in a tent for more than a handful of days can be a bit sub-optimal if you then want to get up and do 80 miles or more. It could also be problematic if a night ride was involved, since in the summer months, assuming warm weather, tents during the day can be unbearably hot, but you'd need somewhere to crash out at some point!


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## theclaud (12 May 2011)

TimO said:


> but camping and sleeping in a tent for more than a handful of days can be *a bit sub-optimal *



I can think of a less polite term...


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## Aperitif (12 May 2011)

"In tents heat, and its effect on the sub-optimal cycle" A discourse by Tim Oddy, published by Jonathan Cape Canaveral.


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## frank9755 (12 May 2011)

Aperitif said:


> "In tents heat, and its effect on the sub-optimal cycle" A discourse by Tim Oddy, published by Jonathan Cape Canaveral.



...with less-polite translation available on request...

I could say that Tim, Claudine and other softies should MTFU, that camping is and always has been the purest form of cycle touring, that the dawn choruses are infinitely richer for the ears than in-room TV and that there is a real spiritual magic from being outdoors for 24 hours a day. All that is true and if you haven't done it, do try it as it is a heavenly escape from the modern world. 

But actually I sort of agree with you for a group trip like this is likely to be. For cycle camping (and carrying my own gear and putting up my own tent) my limit is not much more than 80 miles per day. But that depends on me being able to ride when I want to ride and until I'm ready to stop. And in a larger group there are always compromises around when to set off and when to stop, which take a couple of hours out of the day. I think a larger group (10+) would not comfortably do much more than 50 miles per day if camping (slightly more with a support vehicle). 

Also, cycle camping is perfect for solo trips and good for a couple of people but with a larger group, if I'm honest, I'd rather spend the extra time not on the bike drinking beer than messing around pitching a tent. 

I don't think doing bits of camping and bits of hotels works, as you end up carrying too much gear that you don't need. I also don't think night riding on a tour works as hotels tend to work on the convention of people sleeping at night and moving on in the day.

Finally, it's been wonderful watching the Giro coverage the last couple of days. The pictures of the Italian countryside, the smooth roads and the little towns perched on their hills in the May sun has not done anything to make LEJoG feel any more appealing!


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## theclaud (12 May 2011)

frank9755 said:


> I could say that Tim, Claudine and other softies should MTFU, that camping is and always has been the purest form of cycle touring



Pah! I'm glad you didn't run with that one. And if you're going to bang on in that vein, I trust it's wild camping you mean, and not all that wussy hot-showers and all amenities stuff, and panniers loaded with gadgetry? Camping is great...for a day or two... if it's dry... and you don't mind not sleeping much. The purest form of cycle touring would be to take nothing but the clothes you are wearing, to be unencumbered, and to trust to the hospitality of those you meet. Sort of Satish Kumar on wheels. I'm not quite brave enough for that, so I'll go for the best roof over my head that I can afford, and the lightest load I can get away with...


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## Aperitif (12 May 2011)

Satish Kumar! 


"Jain's a bit slack."


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## theclaud (12 May 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Satish Kumar!
> 
> 
> "Jain's a bit slack."


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## dellzeqq (12 May 2011)

there's a bit of discussion chez DZ about the optimum luggage quotient (c TimO). One of us thinks spare shorts, spare socks, spare vest, tools and, if you really are going to stay at the best places, spare cycling top is it. Another of us has some kind of Queen of Sheba fantasy, with forty elephants bearing ball gowns, Prada shoes, lipsticks and the like. And, in the absence of elephants, there would be luggage ghastliness.


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## theclaud (12 May 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> there's a bit of discussion chez DZ about the optimum luggage quotient (c TimO). One of us thinks spare shorts, spare socks, spare vest, tools and, if you really are going to stay at the best places, spare cycling top is it. Another of us has some kind of Queen of Sheba fantasy, with forty elephants bearing ball gowns, Prada shoes, lipsticks and the like. And, *in the absence of elephants*, there would be luggage ghastliness.



Isn't there usually An Elephant In the Room around here? perhaps you could take it along...


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## Aperitif (12 May 2011)

Which rucksack have you got your eye on? Hire Stu or Marin as sherpas (relaxed, not tensing) maybe.


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## frank9755 (12 May 2011)

User13710 said:


> What wise words from Frank!


Thanks TMN - when can I buy you a drink!?



theclaud said:


> Pah! I'm glad you didn't run with that one. And if you're going to bang on in that vein, I trust it's wild camping you mean, and not all that wussy hot-showers and all amenities stuff, and panniers loaded with gadgetry? Camping is great...for a day or two... if it's dry... and you don't mind not sleeping much. The purest form of cycle touring would be to take nothing but the clothes you are wearing, to be unencumbered, and to trust to the hospitality of those you meet. Sort of Satish Kumar on wheels. I'm not quite brave enough for that, so I'll go for the best roof over my head that I can afford, and the lightest load I can get away with...



Pah indeed! 

If you are challenging me to a hardness of camping contest then my opening bid would be that last year I did 10 consecutive nights under canvas at 4,000m+ altitude in Tibet with no shower. Hope that is wild enough for you! In fact it wasn't quite that wild as we had a support crew who carried gear and pitched the tents - although the tents did leak...

I disagree with you about the day or two point. I find I get into the rhythm of being outdoors. If you are doing over a week then you can't have any electrical gadgets and you just get into a different, more meditative mental place. You don't sleep much to begin with but I find I sleep better after the first couple of nights because I'm so knackered getting into the spirit of it. 

Even rain when you are in the tent is fine. Makes it feel even more nice and cosy. It's a bit inconvenient if it rains when you're packing it up but it's rarely that bad, and you're going to get wet anyway on the bike! 

You've lost me on why it is more pure not to take a change of clothes or a tent, or for that matter, a spare inner tube and multitool. Leave the hair straighteners and the playstation behind by all means, but that sounds a bit daft to me!


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## frank9755 (12 May 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> there's a bit of discussion chez DZ about the optimum luggage quotient (c TimO). One of us thinks spare shorts, spare socks, spare vest, tools and, if you really are going to stay at the best places, spare cycling top is it. Another of us has some kind of Queen of Sheba fantasy, with forty elephants bearing ball gowns, Prada shoes, lipsticks and the like. And, in the absence of elephants, there would be luggage ghastliness.



Sounds like you need the Mick F solution


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## dellzeqq (13 May 2011)

Ah - much as I admire Mick F..........I don't think so!

In general the idea is that people choose. So I'll put together a list of alternatives. Some will camp, while others will swan off to some hotel or other, and have their sprockets lubricated by uniformed flunkeys. 

I'm open to a bit of persuasion on the time taken to do the 876 miles, but I think as it gets toward two weeks boredom will set in. At 80 miles a day it takes five days to get to York, where, arguably, the adventure begins. If only Cornwall wasn't so long........


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## GrumpyGregry (13 May 2011)

... I am not a fan of cycle camping because I am a very light sleeper and find it almost impossible to get a decent 8 hours under canvas even when really tired. and lack of sleep over a couple of nights makes me an even more of a sour grumpy foul moody depressed depressive bar steward than I am normally. 

...also canvas reminds me of being broke in the early days of our marriage when camping in May was all we could afford for a family 'summer' holiday on my rubbish civil servant salary.

So give me a saddlebag with a spare change of kit and a credit card for the B&B and a hot shower and a comfy bed and I'm a happy boy.


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## TimO (13 May 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> ... to get to York, where, arguably, the adventure begins. ...


Admit it, you're just dreaming of cake. 

Where's User10119 ?


----------



## Flying Dodo (13 May 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm open to a bit of persuasion on the time taken to do the 876 miles, but I think as it gets toward two weeks boredom will set in. At 80 miles a day it takes five days to get to York, where, arguably, the adventure begins. If only Cornwall wasn't so long........




Exactly. *Everyone* seems to do LEJOG. That's why I'm missing out Cornwall, and being different and going for the other diagonal for my epic ride. York to Dover = 2½ days.


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## dellzeqq (13 May 2011)

you'd be surprised, Adam, how few people are doing LEJoG. When I first went up there in the early 80s I'd have a cyclist in sight for perhaps half of the last 200 miles. On my last outing, in 2005, we were travelling like rockets and passed almost nobody on the entire route - a couple on a tandem somewhere near Tain come to mind, and two chaps walking JoGLE somewhere near Carlisle. It may have increased in the interim, but John O'Groats arse was hanging out of its trousers, and we were the only LEJoGers to arrive that day.

I know that it's perfectly possible to work out a better 'to' and 'from', and my own view is that the route from Bristol up to Carlisle and beyond is a bit dull, but, if you can make a good ride out of it (and I think I can), it's an almighty tick in a box.


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## User10119 (14 May 2011)

TimO said:


> Admit it, you're just dreaming of cake.
> 
> Where's User10119 ?



Back in posts 5, 15 and 80-something, offering cake and food and stuff


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## dellzeqq (15 May 2011)

[QUOTE 1362383"]
Back in posts 5, 15 and 80-something, offering cake and food and stuff 
[/quote]which I'm hoping to take up.


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## User10119 (17 May 2011)

Jolly good


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## Landslide (17 May 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> there's a bit of discussion chez DZ about the optimum luggage quotient (c TimO). One of us thinks spare shorts, spare socks, spare vest, tools and, if you really are going to stay at the best places, spare cycling top is it. Another of us has some kind of Queen of Sheba fantasy, with forty elephants bearing ball gowns, Prada shoes, lipsticks and the like. And, in the absence of elephants, there would be luggage ghastliness.



I thought Lady DZ seemed like a highly practical type when I met her.


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## StuAff (17 May 2011)

Landslide said:


> I thought Lady DZ seemed like a highly practical type when I met her.



+1. He's only complaining because he gets to carry it.


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## rich p (18 May 2011)

AdrianC said:


> Well quite. He used to be able to get away with all this nonsense when Susie was The Babe in an unseen Mrs Mainwairing way. Now we know her it doesn't work the same way.




...now she's a handsome woman of mature years apparently


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## dellzeqq (18 May 2011)

rich p said:


> ...now she's a handsome woman of mature years apparently


you're very brave....................


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## Aperitif (18 May 2011)

rich p said:


> ...now she's a handsome woman of mature years apparently



Who, Susie? My, my.  Marinyork's description of this charming belle is getting around the forum. Shocking. Do you think that is wise of him to have described her in such a way? 
He's toast I reckon.


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## dellzeqq (18 May 2011)

AdrianC said:


> And what was the value of the contract?


well somebody put a tenner through my letterbox this morning.............


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## wanda2010 (8 Jun 2011)

Guys, I'd like your advice.

I currently have a hybrid and a compact road bike: hybrid for commuting, etc and the roadie for FNR/long rides. Should I attempt to find a tourer for this trip, or could I cannibalise the hybrid (or its proposed replacement, Islabike-Luath)?

Considering my lack of inches and pennies, not sure tourers exist for little'uns, but will start the search.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Jun 2011)

wanda2010 said:


> Guys, I'd like your advice.
> 
> I currently have a hybrid and a compact road bike: hybrid for commuting, etc and the roadie for FNR/long rides. Should I attempt to find a tourer for this trip, or could I cannibalise the hybrid (or its proposed replacement, Islabike-Luath)?
> 
> Considering my lack of inches and pennies, not sure tourers exist for little'uns, but will start the search.



Bar ends on the hybrid maybe?


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## dellzeqq (8 Jun 2011)

wanda2010 said:


> Guys, I'd like your advice.
> 
> I currently have a hybrid and a compact road bike: hybrid for commuting, etc and the roadie for FNR/long rides. Should I attempt to find a tourer for this trip, or could I cannibalise the hybrid (or its proposed replacement, Islabike-Luath)?
> 
> Considering my lack of inches and pennies, not sure tourers exist for little'uns, but will start the search.


Wanda. Help is at hand. It may not be the kind of help you thought you needed, but that's your problem, not the help's problem. 

Do nothing until you have spent time with Her Nibs.


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## StuAff (8 Jun 2011)

wanda2010 said:


> Guys, I'd like your advice.
> 
> I currently have a hybrid and a compact road bike: hybrid for commuting, etc and the roadie for FNR/long rides. Should I attempt to find a tourer for this trip, or could I cannibalise the hybrid (or its proposed replacement, Islabike-Luath)?
> 
> Considering my lack of inches and pennies, not sure tourers exist for little'uns, but will start the search.



Wot Simon said...but with that in mind, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You'll want the Trek for this (definitely the best option at your disposal). Get the gear to fit the bike, not the other way around. 

After last week's sham, more keen on this than ever...it's unfinished business.


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## wanda2010 (9 Jun 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Wanda. Help is at hand. *It may not be the kind of help you thought you needed, but that's your problem, not the help's problem.
> 
> *Do nothing until you have spent time with Her Nibs.




Thanks for making me chuckle. Work was getting a little fraught


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## GarethG (9 Jun 2011)

I have just seen this thread. 

I have been thinking about doing LEJOG and London to Paris. If i could do it with a great bunch of people (some of who i met on FNRTTC that would be even better.) 

I will keep an eye on this and try and keep the dates free 

Gareth


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## Wobblers (9 Jun 2011)

wanda2010 said:


> Guys, I'd like your advice.
> 
> I currently have a hybrid and a compact road bike: hybrid for commuting, etc and the roadie for FNR/long rides. Should I attempt to find a tourer for this trip, or could I cannibalise the hybrid (or its proposed replacement, Islabike-Luath)?
> 
> Considering my lack of inches and pennies, not sure tourers exist for little'uns, but will start the search.



You don't necessarily need a tourer. I'd suggest you use whichever bike you find more comfortable over long distances - any little niggles can become Big Issues after a day or two in the saddle! 

Though... at the risk of ex-communication from the Church Of Legg, I would suggest that a long wet day is less unpleasant on a bike with mudguards than one without...


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## srw (9 Jun 2011)

AdrianC said:


> And a Brooks saddle of course.



And you'll need a saddle-bag and some panniers to keep your flask of hot coffee and your supply of cake in.


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## dellzeqq (9 Jun 2011)

If you're short on cash then I'd start by considering all the ways that the road bike and the hybrid don't measure up to what you'd want from a tourer and try to adapt one or the other.

My personal take on this is that tourers are supposed to be robust, comfortable and capable of carrying some luggage. There is a general view that this normally entails wheels that have more spokes, 25 or 28mm tyres, slightly more relaxed geometry, a wide-ish range of gears, a broader saddle, and fixing points for racks, mudguards and the like.

Most road bikes will happily transport you for thousands of miles on tarmac or gravel. I've never thought myself disadvantaged by 23mm tyres. Modern factory-made wheels and frames are astoundingly strong. Modern derailleurs and drive chains are robust. And, as for luggage....it's a question of working out what you want to take.












As you say - there's not a lot of you. I can't imagine you breaking your road bike on any kind of surface. One tip, though. Mudguards are the work of the devil.


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## Aperitif (9 Jun 2011)

It takes a real bike tart to show two views of the same bag... in different locations! 

Make sure you get panniers Wanda - to put your handbag in. And a pair of shoes. And a cuddly toy, although several tourists might fall into this category I suppose.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Jun 2011)

it does make me laugh that touring bikes for cyldedales like me have the same spec everything as the model for someone over a foot shorter and weighing half as much. Somethings are just too overengineered.


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## dellzeqq (9 Jun 2011)

GregCollins said:


> it does make me laugh that touring bikes for cyldedales like me have the same spec everything as the model for someone over a foot shorter and weighing half as much. Somethings are just too overengineered.


well, you said it. I'd have thought that the frame of a smaller bike, if made of the same tubing, would be tougher than a larger frame. 

The wheel thing is a bit of a myth as well. Those 16 spoke wheels in the photograph took all kinds of bashing, and shrugged it off. The hubs had 50,000 miles in them. The one thing I would change if I was going on an unsupported tour would be to make sure that the rim could be straightened if a spoke went, but that's about it......


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## wanda2010 (14 Jun 2011)

Hmm. Decisions, decisions.

I don't ride Titch (roadbike) often enough to have a view on comfort (not sure once a month for a few hours is sufficient) and the waters are muddied by my company's C2W scheme commencing October and my 'needing' to use this facility to get another, yet to be determined, bike.

If I did use Titch, I'd need to whittle down any bits to be carried considerably and I'm not sure I can do that (given my propensity for 'just in case' items whether on the bike or on foot  

On that basis, the hybrid would be the better bet, maybe changing the handlebars for trekking ones and checking the gearing to allow for my weak knees and hill-hating. It has 32h spokes and 700x28 tyres so that would work surely and I remember I took two loaded panniers on it to my first Brighton ride last year. Didn't use half the stuff I took but I had no idea what to expect so to 'everything I could think of'  

Cuddly toy - yes. Shoes - only if eating establishment requires it, otherwise trainers/mtb shoes will do me. Lipstick and nail varnish - oh yes  .


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## dellzeqq (14 Jun 2011)

Right

LEJoG gained some support, but some people thought it was boring
London to Naples/Rome gained some support, but some people thought it was too much

Barcelona to Pisa? Via Girona, Perpignan, Agde, Arles. Aix-en-Provence, Frejus, Nice, Cannes, Ventimiglia, Sanremo, Genova, La Spezia? Back up trains more or less all the way. Fantastic scenery. And, although some people reckon the coast roads could be hell, Percy (see Touring) reckons that it was ok in early July. 700 miles in 10 days.

Getting to Barcelona or Girona isn't easy - you have to take a TGV or TER trains to the south of France and regional trains thereafter........... or a plane. 
Getting back from Pisa is difficult by train - you have to take regional trains to France and then a TGV, but there are planes from Pisa (Ryannair) and from Florence (BA or CityJet)


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## Ravenbait (14 Jun 2011)

The advantage of the LEJOG, to my mind, was that you could make it either by being able to afford it or by being able to get to the bit nearest you.

Ruling out "boring" is all well and good if you can afford exciting. Still. There's no obligation for the Friday's tour to be affordable. It will be disappointing for those of us who can't spare the money, but that's just the way things go.

Sam


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## theclaud (14 Jun 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Right
> 
> LEJoG gained some support, but some people thought it was boring
> London to Naples/Rome gained some support, but some people thought it was too much
> ...



The European Bike Express goes down to somewhere near Girona. And I might be able to borrow a pad near Perpignan...


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## StuartG (14 Jun 2011)

Like it!

Re problem of getting there & back - flying is likely to fastest and cheapest but I guess some of us shudder at having our bikes shredded at Gatwick or Stansted. On the other hand Ryanair do fly to these destinations from some small regional airports like Bournemouth & Bristol for often less than London. Would a bike be likely to be treated better at these more personal airports?

Or is Frank going to cycle down from London on the day ...


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## theclaud (14 Jun 2011)

Ravenbait said:


> *The advantage of the LEJOG, to my mind, was that you could make it either by being able to afford it or by being able to get to the bit nearest you*.
> 
> Ruling out "boring" is all well and good if you can afford exciting. Still. There's no obligation for the Friday's tour to be affordable. It will be disappointing for those of us who can't spare the money, but that's just the way things go.
> 
> Sam



I agree. And I didn't think it was boring. I'm up for it even if I can't afford it, but would be relieved if it wasn't hideously expensive...


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## StuAff (14 Jun 2011)

theclaud said:


> I agree. And I didn't think it was boring. I'm up for it even if I can't afford it, but would be relieved if it wasn't hideously expensive...




+1. As good as the continental suggestions are, I think LeJOG would be a better option for the first one. Definitely not boring, and in my case I want another go as I only did 5/8 of it the other week!
Best option for accomodation IMHO would be hostels & bunkhouses- cheap, solid roofs, enough mod cons...
Definitely want one preferably two support vehicles- carrying the luggage/most spares and acting as sag wagons (not least because road bikes are by far the best option for this, you don't want to have all your kit on the bike!!).


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## Becs (14 Jun 2011)

Ravenbait said:


> The advantage of the LEJOG, to my mind, was that you could make it either by being able to afford it or by being able to get to the bit nearest you.




Agreed, and us first timers can complete it under the guidance of a pro without paying a fortune for one of those tour company-guided thingies!
Surely the company (and post ride beers) will aleviate any boredom


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## frank9755 (14 Jun 2011)

Barcelona to Pisa sounds better than LEJoG - although it wouldn't be my first choice. I'd have reservations about the coast roads (my experience is that the roads in most of France are empty because all the cars seem to be either in Paris or within 5 miles of the south coast! I much prefer the quiet, inland areas to the overdeveloped, busy coastal strip) and also it being very hot all the way. 

Personally I prefer rides that start from home. Not only does it eliminate 50% of the logistics costs and complexity, but it also connects you to your destination in a way that no other form of transport (bar walking) can. I appreciate not everyone lives in London, but riding to it provides the perfect opportunity for a cunning pre-ride extension (as Stuart points out - so could Barcelona, but probably a bit far!). Of course the other benefit is that it means the tour can start from HPC with a night ride to the coast!  

Is LEJOG really cheaper or easier logistically than similar length tours in Europe? It may be relative to Barcelona-Pisa but I'd be surprised it if was compared to a 'London to somewhere' ride. My experience is that the UK is more expensive than France and Italy for accommodation and food. I did London to Montpellier this time last year for less than £500 (including ferry over and flight back). That was camping, which most won't want to do (but then again, camping in southern France is a different proposition from Scotland or even wet and windy S-W England). 

For doing LEJoG with a group / support vehicle, there are loads of options already and not all are prohibitively expensive. For example, CTC and Bike Adventures both run 3 or 4 trips a year, and I've seen multiple recommendations for each (including on this forum). I'm not sure what the point is in trying to compete with them when they seem to be good options already. 

If Barcelona to Pisa is the final proposal, I would most likely fly as both routes are used by loads of cyclists and it would be far easier than anything else. However I'd be putting the bike in a plastic bag so wouldn't take my best bike. It would be steel rather than carbon fibre.


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## wanda2010 (14 Jun 2011)

My input:

Whatever yous decide I'll work with as long the lipstick and nail varnish can come along 

(plus my cuddly toy)


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## dellzeqq (14 Jun 2011)

I take the point about Barcelona to Pisa not offering the option of 'dropping in'. 

I'm not sure how expensive it would be. Fares from London City to Barcelona are £82, and fares from Florence to London City are about £90. Thurso to London starts at £145 unless you go to Inverness and fly.

The thing about Barcelona to Pisa is that every single day is a real event. Whether it be Girona (an option for the start) to Perpignan, or Agde to Arles you'll see great stuff and ride on great roads. I'd have trouble selling Lands End to Launceston or Launceston to Bridgwater, and the traffic from Bridgewater to Moreton in the Marsh would be as intense as the traffic through Nice.

Maybe I should have kept schtum until I'd made up my mind. Sorry, all.


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## StuAff (14 Jun 2011)

Flying with bikes is going to be expensive, one way or another. BA still take bikes as part of regular checked baggage allowance, Easyjet charge an extra £30..as for Ryanair...no. Just no. Frank has far more confidence in airport baggage handlers than I do, and in any case I'd rather have best bike for that kind of tour. Which means buying or renting something like a Bike Box Alan, no way I'd be taking any chances with my pride-and-joy. Either that, or taking a folder (haven't got a 20" wheeler at the moment, but hopefully sorting that soon), which still would need either a dedicated case or a big suitcase with lots of packing, and still would incur baggage charges. Oh, and wherever you are, you've got the bother of getting all this bulky stuff to and from the airport.

Easyjet from Inverness to Luton or Gatwick can be as little as £12. It's a couple of hours drive to the airport from JOG.


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## StuAff (14 Jun 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I'd have trouble selling Lands End to Launceston or Launceston to Bridgwater, and the traffic from Bridgewater to Moreton in the Marsh would be as intense as the traffic through Nice.




Not to me, and traffic is traffic....


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## srw (14 Jun 2011)

I (or we) would be more likely to join an informal group tour that one organised by a professional organisation, but apart from the route there are several important decisions to be made:

Supported or not? Support adds to the cost (and you need to find driver and vehicle) but means riders don't need to carry cuddly toys and make-up (and such fripperies as clean clothes, washing kits and shoes)
What sort of accommodation? A lot of views have been expressed already. I fall firmly into the luxury end of the market - others may prefer budget travelling. A route that enabled individuals to stay in the sort of accommodation they prefer (which, really, means a route which ends each day at a major population centre) would be more widely attractive.
How "group" will the tour be? A big peleton or a bunch of individuals vaguely travelling together - or something in between or more fluid?
For what it's worth, I'm with Dell on the idea of Barcelona to Pisa (or, as I prefer to think of it, Gaudi to the Leaning Tower, via the Romans) as being a journey rather than just a trip - although I might aim for Siena because I prefer the place. Something similar could be done in the UK, but it wouldn't be LeJog.

My only experience of cycling in Southern France is along the coast road from Perpignan to the Spanish border. There is only one road other than the highway, so it's busy. As Frank points out, if you can go a little way inland you're more likely to find quiet roads than if you stick religiously to the coast.


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Jun 2011)

not sure I'm as enthusiastic about distant continental start and finish points, especially those involving flying as I would be about distant UK start and finish points...

Frank's idea of starting out from blighty has its appeal...

But I can't figure out how one single minute of lejog or jogle in the company of the fridays could ever be accurately described as boring.


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## Aperitif (14 Jun 2011)

GregCollins said:


> not sure I'm as enthusiastic about distant continental start and finish points, especially those involving flying as I would be about distant UK start and finish points...
> 
> Frank's idea of starting out from blighty has its appeal...
> 
> But I can't figure out how one single minute of lejog or jogle in the company of the fridays could ever be accurately *described as boring.*



It 'augurs' well to be a bit of a 'holey' experience. (No names. No pack drill, Greg)


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## StuAff (14 Jun 2011)

GregCollins said:


> But I can't figure out how one single minute of lejog or jogle in the company of the fridays could ever be accurately described as boring.



Hear hear! The most important thing about FNRs is not the destination, nor even the route, it's the people you're with...


Ferry strikes me as a much more sensible option for any continental trips. But then I do live within two miles of a port!


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## dellzeqq (15 Jun 2011)

in no particular order

my plan for LEJoG was that each stopover would have a hotel, B+B and campsite within reach. That's not so difficult to do in England and Scotland, although Tow Law was causing me some grief.

my plan for Barcelona to Pisa would have been decent sized town to decent sized town, but I know nothing about camping in France.

Support would have to pay for itself in that people would think it worthwhile contributing their share, and some people might opt for camping some nights in order to help make it worthwhile. But, in a general way, a ride of less than twelve is not going to have support.

My intention was that it would be pretty groupy. TECs, that kind of thing.

There are LEJoGs and LEJOGs. My LEJoG would be the best ever. Honest. No hacking through Bristol. No wandering through bloody Shropshire. No messing with Lancashire. No meaningless going against the grain of the road network in south of Scotland. LE-Launceston-Bridgewater-Moreton-Gunthorpe-York-Tow Law-Jedburgh-Glenfarg-Kingussie-Dornoch-JoG. Lots of pretty bits, not much in the way of towns (Leicester and Edinburgh would be the biggest) and one horrifyingly hilly stretch of about 60 miles to prove you've done it. Some of it worries me, particularly the A429 (the A68 is a known quantity), so I'll have to go back and have a look. 

Coast route

- My route from Girona to Perpignan is stonkingy fabuloso. And has very few cars. Check out the D13. 
- Percy has advised that the bit around Antibes should be given a miss.
- There are bits of coast road near Agde that have a mega look about them. 

People. Exactly. Point taken. But somebody needs to organise it so that it's like a holiday. If it's a grim struggle down roads that are unresearched in pursuit of accommodation of dubious pedigree then it's not a holiday. If I gave up almost two weeks of my annual leave to join some muppet on a jaunt that turned out to be horrible, I'd be pretty sicked off about it.


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## StuartG (15 Jun 2011)

There is a proliferation near each major town of B&BHotels, Premiere Classe and even my beloved F1 motels.

B&B in particular is a great compromise on price and quality. En suite and bigger rooms than F1 and if shared between two (and you could squeeeze the bikes into the room) probably costing around 20 euros each. Worth considering if only for the washing and an escape from any inclement weather. It also means you can travel much lighter than camping.

A chance to keep the ride pannier free


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## StuartG (15 Jun 2011)

Oh and free wi-fi too so CycleChat compatible. http://www.hotel-bb.com/


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## frank9755 (15 Jun 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I know nothing about camping in France.


It's easy. Easier than the UK. Most towns have a municipal campsite. Even small towns and large villages. The price is from €4-8 and they are generally excellent. The cheaper ones are not necessarily any less good than the more expensive ones. They do fill up in August but should be ok in June. 



There are also private ones but they tend to be bigger, more expensive and have more 'facilities' like swimming pools and other areas for children to make lots of noise - basically aimed at the family market.


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## Sketchley (20 Jun 2011)

I'd love to do LeJog at a reasonable pace. Would prefer not to have to carry all the gear in Panniers, so some support would be preferable and I'm more than happy to chip in on cost. Hotels preferred to camping as well.


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## frank9755 (20 Jun 2011)

Simon, 

You have probably realised this already, but it just dawned on me that starting in Spain would mean that people would need to have helmets...


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## StuartG (20 Jun 2011)

But not necessarily have to wear them: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3814


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## StuAff (20 Jun 2011)

One point that's bewildered me...assuming that it's going to be abroad for a moment, what's the plan for getting the bikes safely to and from the start/end points? If there's no support vehicles of any kind, that would mean either somehow stuffing (a small quantity) packing materials into bags/on racks, or..I have no idea. A CTC bike bag and a few bits of cardboard to protect any bike (let alone a carbon one!) doesn't sound like a good idea to me, baggage handlers aren't renowned for TLC. As I've noted, I'd want a proper bike box or bag..but not exactly possible to carry that on the bike.
It would be a very grim cycling holiday if a bike gets broken...


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## dellzeqq (21 Jun 2011)

Stuart - yes. Gatwick and Heathrow scare the daylights out of me.

the options are 

outbound

- fly from London City to Barcelona. The bike would go in a bag with pipe insulation around all the tubes and more insulation around the derailleur. 
- fly from Bournemouth/East Midlands/Bristol to Girona. Starting from Girona is probably as good as starting from Barcelona
- train from London to Paris and then by regional trains to Barcelona/Girona
- European Bike Express to Rosas, which is not far from Girona

coming back

- fly from from Florence to London City
- regional trains from Genova, Pisa or Florence to Paris and then on to London

it might be possible to take bikes in bike bags on TGVs as far as Perpignan, and from Monte Carlo

the other option is to hire a van and driver for the entire trip. That would make camping easier.


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## StuartG (21 Jun 2011)

Pisa is a cute modern little airport only a mile from town. You can walk or take a bus too.

Hence there may be an option of dumping the cardboard/tube etc in Spain and, maybe, researching to find (via cycle club?) whether there is a LBS in Pisa that could provide cardboard padding etc for the return trip.

Alternatively half the ride could start in Pisa, the other half in Barcelona with a Friday pi**-up to end all pi**-ups halfway and collect each others packing at the other end


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## dellzeqq (21 Jun 2011)

Pisa airport is great, but it's all Ryanair, which makes getting bikes on a bit of a lottery. Pisa to Luton would be good if you could get tickets


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## StuartG (21 Jun 2011)

I guess another complication Dell is that the interested include a mix of 'full monty' campers and credit card tourers. Is it possible to accommodate both or are you going to have to structure it one way or the other?


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## rb58 (21 Jun 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Pisa airport is great, but it's all Ryanair, which makes getting bikes on a bit of a lottery. Pisa to Luton would be good if you could get tickets



I once spent a night sleeping on the floor at Pisa airport as a 'guest' of Ryanair. I swore then that I would never EVER fly with them again. And I won't.	One day I'll tell you about it, so long as you can stand the sight of a grown man crying.....


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## dellzeqq (21 Jun 2011)

I'm with you on that. I spent so long waiting in Treviso airport for a Ryanair flight that we missed the last bus from Stansted. The taxi cost something like eighty quid.


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## Becs (3 Jul 2011)

I've been thinking . . . . and I'd really like to do LeJog next year, even if it is not an official Fridays trip (although obviously that would be better!). I'm going to try to raise some money for the Arthur Rank Hospice by doing it and I'll definitely be up for getting a small group together nearer the time if the official one doesn't go ahead. Not up for camping though!


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## StuAff (3 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> I've been thinking . . . . and I'd really like to do LeJog next year, even if it is not an official Fridays trip (although obviously that would be better!). I'm going to try to raise some money for the Arthur Rank Hospice by doing it and I'll definitely be up for getting a small group together nearer the time if the official one doesn't go ahead. Not up for camping though!



Same here. I need to finish (properly) what I started....


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## dellzeqq (6 Jul 2011)

another idea..........

skip LEJoG. LJoG. As in HPCJoG. Midnight start. 664 miles, starting Friday night, getting to (say) somewhere around Market Harborough by Saturday lunchtime, camp, B+B, hotel overnight, continue to (say) Gainsborogh Sunday, camp overnight, then on to York on Monday. Arrive JoG Saturday.

The disadvantages are
- you don't get a sticker saying 'LEJoG'. 
- A508 Northampton to MH.

The advantages are 
- no Cornwall and Devon, which means either no fast ride down the A30 or no very slow ride on all the alternatives
- a big start on Friday night makes support vehicle for the first (and possibly the second) night worthwhile, so camping is do-able
- weekend to weekend which means only a week of annual leave, 
- better scenery
- those coming for the first weekend could train home from Gainsborough, Lincoln, Retford or Doncaster


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## theclaud (6 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> another idea..........
> 
> skip LEJoG. LJoG. As in HPCJoG. Midnight start. 664 miles, starting Friday night, getting to (say) somewhere around Market Harborough by Saturday lunchtime, camp, B+B, hotel overnight, continue to (say) Gainsborogh Sunday, camp overnight, then on to York on Monday. Arrive JoG Saturday.
> 
> ...




I like it. An appropriate twist for The Fridays.


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## rich p (6 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> One point that's bewildered me...assuming that it's going to be abroad for a moment, what's the plan for getting the bikes safely to and from the start/end points? If there's no support vehicles of any kind, that would mean either somehow stuffing (a small quantity) packing materials into bags/on racks, or..I have no idea. A CTC bike bag and a few bits of cardboard to protect any bike (let alone a carbon one!) doesn't sound like a good idea to me, baggage handlers aren't renowned for TLC. As I've noted, I'd want a proper bike box or bag..but not exactly possible to carry that on the bike.
> It would be a very grim cycling holiday if a bike gets broken...



Stu, I got a cardboard bike box from an lbs in Toulouse last year for the return journey


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## Becs (6 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> another idea..........
> 
> skip LEJoG. LJoG. As in HPCJoG. Midnight start. 664 miles, starting Friday night, getting to (say) somewhere around Market Harborough by Saturday lunchtime, camp, B+B, hotel overnight, continue to (say) Gainsborogh Sunday, camp overnight, then on to York on Monday. Arrive JoG Saturday.
> 
> ...



Definitely keen, less time off work but still enough of a challenge to ask people to donate some cash to Mum's hospice (will be sorting this independently of course).


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

Part of me says 'but I want to do the proper LeJOG'- after that travesty I did in May, I'm sure you can appreciate that, the rest of me says 'well, actually...'. I could always stick an extra ride or two with an extra 200 or so miles on to make up the distance..
Speaking of which...start in Pompey and you could still say you're doing coast to coast 
Support vehicle all the way a very, very good idea. Makes life much easier.
And no camping...please......!


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## dellzeqq (6 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> Part of me says 'but I want to do the proper LeJOG'- after that travesty I did in May, I'm sure you can appreciate that, the rest of me says 'well, actually...'. I could always stick an extra ride or two with an extra 200 or so miles on to make up the distance..
> Speaking of which...*start in Pompey* and you could still say you're doing coast to coast
> Support vehicle all the way a very, very good idea. Makes life much easier.
> And no camping...please......!


Stu - I'm not going to make you camp (although Catrike thinks it's only a matter of time). I'm aiming to give people the option. MH would allow some people to stay at The Angel http://www.theangel-hotel.co.uk/rooms and others to camp


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Stu - I'm not going to make you camp (although Catrike thinks it's only a matter of time). I'm aiming to give people the option. MH would allow some people to stay at The Angel http://www.theangel-hotel.co.uk/rooms and others to camp




Phew!  Just the last time I camped was (a) a long time ago and (b) not pleasant.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Jul 2011)

I like the sound of this, might engineer a start from Brighton or elsewhere on the south coast, a la, or avec, Stu

The Friday's Capital to Coast.....


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## frank9755 (6 Jul 2011)

Sounds good. Starting from HPC at midnight certainly gets my vote.

-1 for support vehicle (just to show you can't please everyone!). My experience is that it changes the nature of the tour and makes it feel less like an escape-from-it-all, which should be one of the main advantages of cycle touring. Far better to bring less gear or, if not that's not possible, there is always Carry Freedom (Mick F from the CTC forum has done thousands of miles round the UK with one)


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## ceepeebee (6 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> another idea..........
> 
> skip LEJoG. LJoG. As in HPCJoG. Midnight start. 664 miles, starting Friday night, getting to (say) somewhere around Market Harborough by Saturday lunchtime, camp, B+B, hotel overnight, continue to (say) Gainsborogh Sunday, camp overnight, then on to York on Monday. Arrive JoG Saturday.
> 
> ...


I heartily approve of this plan, sounds like a winner.


I also wan to do a wee overnighter to Westvleteren in Belgium, possibly from Hook of Holland (may take more than 1 night)


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

My feeling about the need for a support vehicle is as follows:
1. Some, if not all of us, are unwilling/unable to get a week's worth of kit into a teeny tiny bag that's not too much of a pain to lug about all day, every day. And even if we can and do, lugging it up and down Shap Fell, Glencoe, etc...isn't going to be fun (masochists excepted...) And we do want this to be fun, right...? Certain people might be put off a trip like this altogether, or would enjoy it much less, if they had a fully laden bike to contend with.
2. If someone bonks/has an off day/etc, you're covered. 
3. Plenty of room for spares etc. Better in a van than on your bike.
4. Need someone to get a spare tyre or other parts? Covered. 
5. Secure bike store for overnight stops...


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## User482 (6 Jul 2011)

I think one can worry too much about carrying luggage. All my kit for a 12 day credit-card LEJOG fitted into 2 smallish panniers, and I'm no hairshirt. Equally, one of those large carradice saddle bags would probably have done. As for cycling uphill, just do it a bit slower. By the time you get to Shap, you're superfit anyway.


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> I think one can worry too much about carrying luggage. All my kit for a 12 day credit-card LEJOG fitted into 2 smallish panniers, and I'm no hairshirt. Equally, one of those large carradice saddle bags would probably have done. As for cycling uphill, just do it a bit slower. By the time you get to Shap, you're superfit anyway.



Well, I don't know about being able to pack that light, particularly allowing for spares etc, I don't want a touring bike, apart from the expense, and the Viner handles like a fully laden shopping trolley when the Carradice is full (and I'd need a rucksack as well). Certainly easier to climb without that lot anyway...Part of my reasoning is that I'd prefer those people who've expressed an interest but aren't has fit or hardy as others, to feel willing and able to sign up. And those people need to be lugging as little weight around as possible, because they're going to need the help, regardless of route.


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## Flying Dodo (6 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> - A508 Northampton to MH.





Well, you don't even have to do that. Go via Earls Barton, Sywell, Old, Harrington, Braybroke. Really nice quiet roads, as seen on recent epic rides.


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> Well, you don't even have to do that. Go via Earls Barton, Sywell, Old, Harrington, Braybroke. Really nice quiet roads, as seen on recent epic rides.



+1.


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## User482 (6 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> Well, I don't know about being able to pack that light, particularly allowing for spares etc, I don't want a touring bike, apart from the expense, and the Viner handles like a fully laden shopping trolley when the Carradice is full (and I'd need a rucksack as well). Certainly easier to climb without that lot anyway...Part of my reasoning is that I'd prefer those people who've expressed an interest but aren't has fit or hardy as others, to feel willing and able to sign up. And those people need to be lugging as little weight around as possible, because they're going to need the help, regardless of route.



I don't think you need to be particularly fit - seriously. 80 miles in a day can be comfortably achieved at an average speed of 10mph, which is within reach of most cyclists, even with luggage.

My view is that people are put off long-distance tours because they perceive that it is going to be difficult. I think that the perception is wrong. All you need is the desire to do it, and a bicycle that's comfortable.


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> I don't think you need to be particularly fit - seriously. 80 miles in a day can be comfortably achieved at an average speed of 10mph, which is within reach of most cyclists, even with luggage.
> 
> My view is that people are put off long-distance tours because they perceive that it is going to be difficult. I think that the perception is wrong. All you need is the desire to do it, and a bicycle that's comfortable.




It's a darn sight easier if you are fit..and it's a darn sight easier if you're not carrying loads of stuff. Let alone if you're not fit, and you are fully laden. The decisions you make for yourself about touring are one thing, but a group is quite another. We have to be thinking of the group as a whole, and I think there are plenty who would much prefer to avoid anything even vaguely resembling the hair-shirt approach (self included). Some people don't want to do their own laundry every night, wear the same clothes all day every day, go without items they consider essential, even small lightweight ones, because they just won't fit...and I'll say it again: it's supposed to be *fun*. The hard bits- and there will be hard bits- will be hard enough without a fully laden bike. On the attempted LeJOG, I did 90+ miles over two days, pretty much on my own, into a headwind. At no point was I regretting not having luggage. If anyone suggested otherwise, the language would have been colourful to say the least. I had in many respects an absolutely awful time, and I certainly don't want anyone going through anything like that this time around.

Nothing to stop people doing it the self-reliant way on this trip...but please don't assume everyone else can or should.


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## frank9755 (6 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> I don't think you need to be particularly fit - seriously. 80 miles in a day can be comfortably achieved at an average speed of 10mph, which is within reach of most cyclists, even with luggage.
> 
> My view is that people are put off long-distance tours because they perceive that it is going to be difficult. I think that the perception is wrong. All you need is the desire to do it, and a bicycle that's comfortable.



Agreed. The whole 'support vehicle' thing has been propagated by companies who need to raise the barriers to entry in order to have a product to sell. There's a straightforward trade-off between how much luggage you are carrying and how many miles you can comfortably do in a day. Neither is necessarily more or less comfortable than the other.


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## swarm_catcher (6 Jul 2011)

I've had visions of a Friday Night Ride through the Country.

We would ride at night, sleep in the morning, sightsee/eat/drink in the late afternoon/evening.

We would set off at HPC on a Friday and reach a coast somewhere, from then on coast to coast till we reach HPC again on a Friday.

Accommodation would be available and economical because who else needs a room between 0900-1500.

You could get a FNRttC Star Sticker.


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## StuAff (6 Jul 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Agreed. *The whole 'support vehicle' thing has been propagated by companies who need to raise the barriers to entry in order to have a product to sell*. There's a straightforward trade-off between how much luggage you are carrying and how many miles you can comfortably do in a day. Neither is necessarily more or less comfortable than the other.



What? Touring bike makers? 

Seriously, if anyone actually wants to argue that they prefer riding with 20 or 30 kilos, if not more, of bike and gear to something under 8 or 9, feel free. I certainly don't. On the travesty, we met a guy coming the other way, at his own pace (very slowly). No-one could pick up his bike.....Rather him than me. 
Having a support vehicle means all kinds of problems that will come up can be dealt with much more simply and easily. The slower people will be slow enough if they're not weighed down....don't make things harder than they need to be.

Let people have the best bike for the job that they've got, and not have to worry about where they have to carry stuff on it....


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## Becs (6 Jul 2011)

I reckon a support van would be a bonus but I'm sure if someone was really struggling the kind hearted fitter folk would happily share the load until the next stop.  


Personally I'm up for small panniers, B and Bs and washing my lycra in the sink each night! I will therefore have to leave the hair straighteners at home


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## Flying Dodo (6 Jul 2011)

For doing Durness to Dover last month, Mike and I had 1 pannier each. His weighed 6.5 kg and mine was 8.5 kg (but that extra weight was mainly because I had a notebook plus chargers and spare batteries for the GPS, so it could have been lighter). 3 lots of jerseys, shorts and socks, 2 coats (thick and thin), leggings, waterproofs including overshoes, a pair of trousers and top for the evening + shoes + toiletries. Tools including spare folding tyre in the saddle wedge bag.

So for touring, it's perfectly possible to do it on a lightweight, completely independent basis, but as Becs says, it would be a bonus to have a van and that would have the advantage of being a sag wagon in case someone is ill or is suffering badly for whatever reason. 

One option could be to hire a van, picking up from one location, and dropping off say 3 days later, with the driving shared between 3 people in turn, who each have a non cycling day as they're on driving duty*, and then pick up another van for a few more days for others to then share the driving.

If you're looking at Europe and were sticking to Northern France, then I can provide a people carrier for a few days.





* [sub]or they could drive on ahead, park the van and cycle back to meet the group.
[/sub]


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## mmmmartin (7 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> a start from Brighton or elsewhere on the south coast


I am thinking along the same lines - more specifically, of starting at Dungeness because:

It is the start of the Dungeness-Cape Wrath route (ie, the "other" LeJog).




It is sort of (by which I mean "not at all") a southernmost point.



It has a cafe for a nice healthy fry-up before the start.



It is easy to get to (train to Hythe, then pan flat across Romney Marsh to the cafe)
There is a nice pretty nuclear power station there, which adds immeasurably to the rustic charm.



It is possible to ride from there to HPC during the day.



There is a kind of daft warped logic to it that fits in perfectly with the ethos of The Fridays.


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

Stuart, 

It’s not a question of one way is right and the others are wrong. It’s perfectly possible (for anyone who is fit enough for an FNRttC) to do a cycling tour with a support vehicle or without. All I am saying is that, having done both several times over the last couple of years, I have come to the conclusion that more is lost than is gained through having a vehicle driving alongside. 

What I’ve experienced is that having the vehicle can create the temptation to push the daily mileages up and to make it into more of a race. Breaks get scheduled around the vehicle and its stops rather than around what is in the towns and villages you pass through. There is more pressure on people to cycle at a similar pace to maintain contact with the vehicle – which can annoy both the faster and slower riders – and pressure is put on the slower ones to go in the vehicle when they would have been perfectly capable of riding on at their own pace, and have got more satisfaction from doing so, had it not been there. 

On the other hand, without a vehicle chugging along I have had much more a feeling of escape, self-sufficiency and connection with the terrain I've been passing though - and hence greater satisfaction and enjoyment. And there are always other options available to deal with the problems that can arise on the road. 

If you’re struggling with the thought of being able to pack light enough, have a look at this site. It shows how and what to pack to get touring luggage weight, excl camping equipment, food and water, to below 5kg.


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

martinbrice said:


> I am thinking along the same lines - more specifically, of starting at Dungeness because:
> 
> There is a nice pretty nuclear power station there, which adds immeasurably to the rustic charm.




Dungeness to Dounreay - The nuclear option!


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

martinbrice said:


> I am thinking along the same lines - more specifically, of starting at Dungeness because:
> 
> It is the start of the Dungeness-Cape Wrath route (ie, the "other" LeJog).
> 
> ...



Dungeness would be good....


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Stuart,
> 
> It’s not a question of one way is right and the others are wrong. It’s perfectly possible (for anyone who is fit enough for an FNRttC) to do a cycling tour with a support vehicle or without. All I am saying is that, having done both several times over the last couple of years, I have come to the conclusion that more is lost than is gained through having a vehicle driving alongside.



I've never toured with a support vehicle, and I've never felt the need to. My regular touring buddy would not describe himself as fit - indeed, on our lejog he was both unfit and suffering from a cold, yet because we were independent, we could schedule in plenty of breaks, and arrive at our destination when we wanted to. The only day on our lejog that felt difficult and unpleasant was 95 miles between Lockerbie and Loch Lomond, in rain and a headwind. One difficult day out of twelve doesn't sound too bad to me...

But even then, we were done by 6pm, allowing plenty of time for a shower and a hearty pub tea, followed by an early night.

All of this is somewhat academic, as I suspect the chances of negotiating a pass for this ride are negligable, but you never know...


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Stuart,
> 
> It’s not a question of one way is right and the others are wrong. It’s perfectly possible (for anyone who is fit enough for an FNRttC) to do a cycling tour with a support vehicle or without. All I am saying is that, having done both several times over the last couple of years, I have come to the conclusion that more is lost than is gained through having a vehicle driving alongside.
> 
> ...




I see your arguments, Frank...it's two sides of the same coin. Call it self-centred, but I'm pretty sure I get more of a feeling of 'escape' when I don't have to lug several kilos on my back and on the bike. The only bike of the three I have that can take panniers is also the least sensible for climbing (small matter of four or five kilos extra before you put the rack and bags on....). Neither the Viner or the Condor can take panniers (carbon) and why on earth would I want them on either bike anyway? So that will be most of the weight on my back...I'm sure you won't mind if curse your name loudly on every climb?  Likely n+1 will be able to take rack and panniers, and would be still pretty light...but I'd prefer to keep it light. 


As far as the bit I've put in bold- let me tell you from recent experience- I'm not going in a van if I can keep going perfectly well under my own steam. That I was forced to do so last month absolutely disgusted me. My 'team' had the idea that if if anyone was a little behind, in the van. If they were all late for lunch...in the van. One of them, the first day I was sick, went in the van for a bit because it was raining (?!!!). Some of them called me slow because I could _only_ manage 15 mph rolling average- and rather riding as a group, which would have helped everyone, the faster ones (including Mr Scared of the Rain!) just bombed on ahead. Hence people getting lost (I ended up in Inverness because I turned right instead of left at one junction, three others went to one of the other two Premier Inns in East Kilbride..) and me getting thoroughly hacked off (I wasn't the only one, I just got more hacked off more often). Not one person rode the whole way, we didn't even have one person on the road every mile of the route. The first full day I was back on the bike after the bonk and illness, it was like nothing had happened, they kept on giving me grief rather than support or accepting that what they did had to be learnt from. On the afternoon penultimate day, I rode about 36 miles, alone, into a headwind. Some of the others decided to stop off at a distillery (?!!). First I got held up because the support guys (who were brilliant) didn't know how long they were going to be there. I was eventually allowed to continue. The aforementioned 'comrades' passed me with a somewhat insulting 'keep up' and left me alone, again. Not a thought about me or my feelings. There were enough hours in the day for me and everyone else to do the daily mileage, but prevarication, laziness and poor scheduling (hotels that didn't serve breakfast early enough, inflexible lunch stops, etc) meant it never happened. And this ride was hard enough without having to deal with all that **** (pick expression of your choice).

That is part of the reason I want to do LeJOG (or at least something much like it) properly, ASAP. And I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressurised the way I was. I'd only want a van to (a) carry luggage and (b) be there in the event of problems. No reason for it to act as a 'pace car' or prevent us stopping as and where we feel the need. It's to support the riders, not rule over them.


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

Sounds like you had a particularly poor experience. Those are the sort of things I've seen bits of with a support vehicle in the equation, but never to that extent

But why do you want to lug panniers if you're not camping: why not travel light?


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Sounds like you had a particularly poor experience. Those are the sort of things I've seen bits of with a support vehicle in the equation, but never to that extent
> 
> But why do you want to lug panniers if you're not camping: why not travel light?





I want to travel light....by putting the weight in a van.... I don't want to lug panniers, _because I can't_. If I took either the Viner or the Condor, panniers are simply not an option. So that means everything I do carry has to go on my back or in the Carradice, and that can't hold much either, it's pretty rigid. And makes my sports car handle like a tank when full. So pretty much everything on my back, and me cursing whoever had the bright idea to not have any support on every single incline. 

I'll say it yet again, because it seems to go clean over people's heads...this is supposed to be fun. Fun in my book does not mean having to scrutinise every single thing you're taking for weight and bulk, or then having to lug it up 13,14, 15% drags........


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> I want to travel light....by putting the weight in a van.... I don't want to lug panniers, _because I can't_. If I took either the Viner or the Condor, panniers are simply not an option. So that means everything I do carry has to go on my back or in the Carradice, and that can't hold much either, it's pretty rigid. And makes my sports car handle like a tank when full. So pretty much everything on my back, and me cursing whoever had the bright idea to not have any support on every single incline.
> 
> I'll say it yet again, because it seems to go clean over people's heads...this is supposed to be fun. Fun in my book does not mean having to scrutinise every single thing you're taking for weight and bulk, or then having to lug it up 13,14, 15% drags........



But Stu, plenty of us enjoy touring regardless of the fact that we're carrying luggage. It's not a race, or even a club run, so the effect on bike speed and handling is perhaps of lesser importance than you are suggesting. In any case, going up a climb with 85kg of rider and bike, vs 95kg of rider bike and luggage - is it really such a big deal, given the lack of pressure to finish by a prescribed time?


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> But Stu, plenty of us enjoy touring regardless of the fact that we're carrying luggage. It's not a race, or even a club run, so the effect on bike speed and handling is perhaps of lesser importance than you are suggesting. In any case, going up a climb with 85kg of rider and bike, vs 95kg of rider bike and luggage - is it really such a big deal, given the lack of pressure to finish by a prescribed time?



But you'd still get up that climb a lot better without that weight.....and the weight will be a constant burden all day, every day. Some people have enough bother on FNRttCs without sticking a load of kit on their bike...and I just don't want to.

Tell you what, you and me do a LeJOG together. You get to carry all my stuff. See who enjoys it more......


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> But you'd still get up that climb a lot better without that weight.....and the weight will be a constant burden all day, every day. Some people have enough bother on FNRttCs without sticking a load of kit on their bike...and I just don't want to.
> 
> Tell you what, you and me do a LeJOG together. You get to carry all my stuff. See who enjoys it more......




Stu I think you might be over reacting a little, and extra 10kg or so in panniers really doesn't make that much of a difference, I wouldn't want to carry it on my back though - could you borrow a bike that would take a rack?


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## srw (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> - A508 Northampton to MH.



The map has a little green dotted line between Northampton and MH. It is flat and has tunnels, but I know no more about it than that.


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## srw (7 Jul 2011)

And having done three days in a group with a van with no pressure at all on anyone to do anything other than ride, it was very useful. The group divided itself up into three or four small subgroups (plus one or two occasional anti-social so-and-sos), the van provided lunch and elevenses and meant no-one had do anything other than think about enjoying the ride. The subgroup thing didn't make any difference to the overall cohesiveness of the ride - the whole lot regrouped most lunchtimes and in the evenings.


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## mmmmartin (7 Jul 2011)

srw said:


> The map has a little green dotted line between Northampton and MH. It is flat and has tunnels, but I know no more about it than that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Valley_Way

looks like a cycle route to me.


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> But you'd still get up that climb a lot better without that weight.....and the weight will be a constant burden all day, every day. Some people have enough bother on FNRttCs without sticking a load of kit on their bike...and I just don't want to.
> 
> Tell you what, you and me do a LeJOG together. You get to carry all my stuff. See who enjoys it more......




No, you'd get up the climbs a bit better. As I said, it's not a race...

Thing is stu, I've done a LEJOG carrying my own stuff, and enjoyed it immensely. You did a supported LEJOG and hated it. There might be a message in there...


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

srw said:


> the van provided lunch and elevenses and meant no-one had do anything other than think about enjoying the ride.



That's actually one of the things I don't like! 

If having the van means you don't stop at cafes and restaurants, it becomes 'just' a cycling trip rather than a fuller experience of the area. Admittedly this is less of an issue in the UK but, after a tour last year, several of us reflected that this contact with local people and places has been something we'd missed out on.


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## mmmmartin (7 Jul 2011)

on the subject of van/no van. 

The problem will be finding someone who wants to drive all the way to Scotland and back in a Transit. If that problem can be overcome, we are home and dry. But giving up a week's holiday to drive a van for days and days across Britain and back is not something peeps will queue up for, IMHO
The price is not an issue - cost of hiring it could easily be split between those on the ride, vans cost say £340 for eight days which is half of bugger all between even such a small number as 10 riders. Fuel would be say the same again - call it £300 London-JoG in a Transit and back.
The advantage would be that the bikes could be put in it for the return journey and riders could get the train or fly back, picking up the bikes in London.
I am happy either way, I would probably camp in any case ('cos I am as tight as a gnat's chuff) and put my camping kit in the van.
I am assuming I would meet up in the morning, chuck all the stuff in the van, and meet up again in the evening, take the stuff out of the van and pedal off to a campsite.
I very much agree with Frank about meeting locals and stopping - especially for breakfast (private joke there), but just because my tent and gear is in a van doesn't mean I won't be stopping whensoever I choose.


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## MacB (7 Jul 2011)

Doubt there's any chance of me joinng but I'd want to do the van bit and reasonable accomodation as well. I can get enough communing with nature when I'm on the bike, off it I want a bed, a bar, a shower, a hot meal and a decent selection of clothes.

Hire van, with driver, and just load in morning and meet wherever to unload in evening, no need for the van to follow us and, in case of serious mechanical there's always a mobile to summon van.


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> No, you'd get up the climbs a bit better. As I said, it's not a race...
> 
> Thing is stu, I've done a LEJOG carrying my own stuff, and enjoyed it immensely. You did a supported LEJOG and hated it. There might be a message in there...



My horrible experience was entirely down to the so-called team and their attitudes (the stomach bug they couldn't help, everything else they could and should). That doesn't justify your arguments. Taking it further, I'd have enjoyed it even more if I'd been lugging all my gear around, and if they'd left me in a field somewhere..
I think not. And the quicker you're trying to do it, the more support (in terms of logistics and from your team) becomes important. An eight-day LeJOG's rather harder than a twelve.....


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

MacB said:


> Doubt there's any chance of me joinng but I'd want to do the van bit and reasonable accomodation as well. I can get enough communing with nature when I'm on the bike, off it I want a bed, a bar, a shower, a hot meal and a decent selection of clothes.
> 
> Hire van, with driver, and just load in morning and meet wherever to unload in evening, no need for the van to follow us and, in case of serious mechanical there's always a mobile to summon van.



Hallelujah! Thank you Al.....


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## wanda2010 (7 Jul 2011)

In other news, last night my finger slipped whilst looking at a Carradice zipped roll bag. My first attempt at riding 'light' will be on the Newhaven/Brighton leg.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Jul 2011)

Rotate the van drivers in short shifts of no more than an hour. When driving your bike is in the van. Seen it done (albeit when the scheduled van driver broke his leg at the first night's stop.) One wag swapped shifts and rode back in the 'wrong direction' with a cry of "I'm going to cycle every f*cking mile no matter what) so one bit he rode twice!

Stu, have you thought of a trailer? Also you'd be a mate amongst mates. A certain pooling of resources and luggage space is surely do-able. I've even mailed small packages of "stuff" ahead of me to wait at my hotel/b&b (booked well in advance) and posted dirty and surplus stuff home before now.

Maybe I'm weird but I love, in a truly masochistic way, the sensation of climbing mountains and hills with two loaded panniers on the back. The sense of achievement when you reach the top is huge compared with doing it on a naked bike.


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> Stu I think you might be over reacting a little, and extra 10kg or so in panniers really doesn't make that much of a difference, I wouldn't want to carry it on my back though - could you borrow a bike that would take a rack?



Nice idea- but I don't want a touring bike, even to borrow, and I don't see why one should be required to do this.
As for an extra 10 kg or so not making a difference...you will think otherwise after some of the climbs....


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> My horrible experience was entirely down to the so-called team and their attitudes (the stomach bug they couldn't help, everything else they could and should). That doesn't justify your arguments. Taking it further, I'd have enjoyed it even more if I'd been lugging all my gear around, and if they'd left me in a field somewhere..
> I think not. And the quicker you're trying to do it, the more support (in terms of logistics and from your team) becomes important. An eight-day LeJOG's rather harder than a twelve.....



Yes - my point was that enjoyment of a LEJOG is not conditional on having someone else carry your luggage, as you yourself have proven.

And as I've already said many times - this isn't a race. Logistical support may be important for an 8 day LEJOG, it isn't for this.

In any case, given your stated distaste for making touring harder than it needs to be, why on earth did you try to do it in 8 days?


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

GregCollins said:


> Maybe I'm weird but I love, in a truly masochistic way, the sensation of climbing mountains and hills with two loaded panniers on the back. The sense of achievement when you reach the top is huge compared with doing it on a naked bike.



It's not just you. Reaching the top of Dartmoor and Shap were amongst the highlights of my whole trip.


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## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2011)

bear in mind the starting point here..........at least one person on this ride will be carrying nothing and staying in a decent hotel every night. B+B at a push, but it had better be four star B+B. So the support will be for spares (think how clever we'll all feel if somebody pulls a spare wheel out of a van) and luggage. And evening wear. If, at any time, there's not sufficient people to make support financially viable, then you can call me Sherpa Dell


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

User482 said:


> In any case, given your stated distaste for making touring harder than it needs to be, why on earth did you try to do it in 8 days?



Well, it wasn't touring...................and it would have been pretty straightforward but for factors beyond my control (the sickness & other people).


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> bear in mind the starting point here..........at least one person on this ride will be carrying nothing and staying in a decent hotel every night. B+B at a push, but it had better be four star B+B. So the support will be for spares (think how clever we'll all feel if somebody pulls a spare wheel out of a van) and luggage. And evening wear. If, at any time, there's not sufficient people to make support financially viable, then you can call me Sherpa Dell


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

I think the important thing when riding in a group is to be honest about one's capabilities. It's ok on modest rides (let's use the stop / start rinky tinky hurrah FNRttCs as an example) but those that need a 'bit of continuity' and mutual rythmn and so forth are made uncomfortable by any that can't keep up. For those 'in the lead' it introduces the 'umm-ing and ahh-ing' which detracts from the ride quality - in my opinion.

Stu - wouldn't it be nice to invite one of your team mates to respond on how the ride went (from 'their' point of view?) I have enjoyed sitting back and reading this thread - at long last - and I didn't realise bike riding was so complicated!
Another thing might be to do several group rides where you are always 'out there' and yet being 'held back' by riders of differing ability and endurance. Lastly, you on a bike, with 40kg of lock, cakes and copies of the CTC mag. probably weigh about as much as me - without a bike in my pocket. Just think of us poor souls, hearts-a-racing, hoping for the crest of a climb - it's hell!
And I would be the first to realise if I was screwing it up for others.

To User482: I think you write well and far too sensibly on this subject, which is why I have interjected!


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## threebikesmcginty (7 Jul 2011)

MacB said:


> I want a...decent selection of clothes.



When you gonna buy them?


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> When you gonna buy them?



 There's plenty hanging in his bike museum apparently. Rich told me...


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## MacB (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> bear in mind the starting point here..........at least one person on this ride will be carrying nothing and staying in a decent hotel every night. B+B at a push, but it had better be four star B+B. So the support will be for spares (think how clever we'll all feel if somebody pulls a spare wheel out of a van) and luggage. And evening wear. If, at any time, there's not sufficient people to make support financially viable, then you can call me Sherpa Dell



Yep, and if I was involved then it would be at least two people taking that route...how much can Dell carry?

Seriously though my interest in LeJog wouldn't be in hammering out the run in X number of days. I've even doodled with a sort of zigzag route to take in bits and pieces I want to see/visit, including relatives in Scotland. So your ideas around making it an interesting route rather than being about just getting from AtoB make sense to me. The journey, rather than start and end points, is what matters, though I accept that there's a checklist ticking aspect to LeJog. If it's just about doing X number of miles for Y number of days, then you can do that anytime via local loops.

I have nothing against hardcore tourers, camping, etc and understand the cost aspect as well, but it doesn't mean I want to be one. By the way I'd probably opt for the Carry Freedom trailer if I did.


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## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2011)

The trick is to have a really solid idea of what you want to achieve. My ideal HPCJoG would be four or five days, but Becs, User13710 and Susie will not do more than seventyfive miles a day, day in day out, and they will not do that if they are laden down. Even then, Northumberland will be a real challenge, particularly if the weather is not on our side. 

So that's the plan. Starting at HPC might take us 25 miles past York on day 3, which would leave 63 miles to Corbridge on day 4 and about 65 to Lauder on day 5 - a fearsome proposition. That leaves a round 300 for the last four days.

Now, for some people that would be too undemanding, and I aniticipate receiving e-mails saying 'sorry, if I'm going to take a week of work I'm going to be looking for something a bit more mega'.


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

Aperitif said:


> I think the important thing when riding in a group is to be honest about one's capabilities. It's ok on modest rides (let's use the stop / start rinky tinky hurrah FNRttCs as an example) but those that need a 'bit of continuity' and mutual rythmn and so forth are made uncomfortable by any that can't keep up. For those 'in the lead' it introduces the 'umm-ing and ahh-ing' which detracts from the ride quality - in my opinion.
> 
> Stu - wouldn't it be nice to invite one of your team mates to respond on how the ride went (from 'their' point of view?) I have enjoyed sitting back and reading this thread - at long last - and I didn't realise bike riding was so complicated!
> Another thing might be to do several group rides where you are always 'out there' and yet being 'held back' by riders of differing ability and endurance. Lastly, you on a bike, with 40kg of lock, cakes and copies of the CTC mag. probably weigh about as much as me - without a bike in my pocket. Just think of us poor souls, hearts-a-racing, hoping for the crest of a climb - it's hell!
> ...



Hmmm.....I got the distinct impression that they were all telling themselves that what happened was somehow nothing to do with them, or beyond their control. As if you are forced to overtake someone at a rate of knots and not ride with them for a bit, see how they are...Our ride leader (who, to his credit, did a lot of things right), replied when I said we should be riding every mile we could and not getting in a van because someone was 'slow' (i.e. not doing 20 mph rolling average!) or we were running 'late' , that 'it's not the point'. Well, as far as I'm concerned, it was exactly the point. It felt to me- and still does- that we were cheating all the people who donated and helped us along the way, cheating the cause, and doing a disservice to the many people who've ridden an E2E in the way it should. 

It's not a burden for me to ride with slower people, just as I hope I'm not a burden to ride with the racing snakes and audax loons...
And as for the weight difference....you wish.....


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> The trick is to have a really solid idea of what you want to achieve. My ideal HPCJoG would be four or five days, but Becs, User13710 and Susie will not do more than seventyfive miles a day, day in day out*,* and they will not do that if they are laden down. Even then, Northumberland will be a real challenge, particularly if the weather is not on our side.
> 
> So that's the plan. Starting at HPC might take us 25 miles past York on day 3, which would leave 63 miles to Corbridge on day 4 and about 65 to Lauder on day 5 - a fearsome proposition. That leaves a round 300 for the last four days.
> 
> Now, for some people that would be too undemanding, and I aniticipate receiving e-mails saying 'sorry, if I'm going to take a week of work I'm going to be looking for something a bit more mega'.




You've hit the nail on the head there....


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> The trick is to have a really solid idea of what you want to achieve. My ideal HPCJoG would be four or five days, but Becs, User13710 and Susie will not do more than seventyfive miles a day, day in day out, and they will not do that if they are laden down. Even then, Northumberland will be a real challenge, particularly if the weather is not on our side.




Oi! I'm planning to be super-svelt and super tough by then! 

(Watches flying pig passing window  )


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## threebikesmcginty (7 Jul 2011)

Aperitif said:


> There's plenty hanging in his bike museum apparently. Rich told me...



We got away with it *T*eef, he didn't notice your rude comment!


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> We got away with it teef, he didn't notice your rude comment!



Only because he didn't understand it - not many do apparently, which is warming news!  "Och aye the noo suitcase"


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> Nice idea- but I don't want a touring bike, even to borrow, and I don't see why one should be required to do this.
> As for an extra 10 kg or so not making a difference...you will think otherwise after some of the climbs....




If the climb is steep enough for 10kg to make a difference chances are I'll be reaching for the ventolin and walking up it anyway!  Luckily I have the world's smallest granny ring on my new tourer . . . . .


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## martint235 (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> Oi! I'm planning to be super-svelter and super tougher by then!



FTFY


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

martint235 said:


> FTFY


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## martint235 (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


>



Well if you're going to be like that.......


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> If the climb is steep enough for 10kg to make a difference chances are I'll be reaching for the ventolin and walking up it anyway!  Luckily I have the world's smallest granny ring on my new tourer . . . . .




10 kg will make a difference on any climb, let alone some of the Scottish ones (Devon & Cornwall are the worst bits of LeJOG but there's plenty of others whichever route we follow). Keep working at the mileage and the climbing and you'll get up most of them OK anyway. World's smallest granny ring? Presumably paired with a 36t on the cassette?


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> The trick is to have a really solid idea of what you want to achieve. My ideal HPCJoG would be four or five days, but Becs, User13710 and Susie will not do more than seventyfive miles a day, day in day out, and they will not do that if they are laden down. Even then, Northumberland will be a real challenge, particularly if the weather is not on our side.
> 
> So that's the plan. Starting at HPC might take us 25 miles past York on day 3, which would leave 63 miles to Corbridge on day 4 and about 65 to Lauder on day 5 - a fearsome proposition. That leaves a round 300 for the last four days.
> 
> ...



at which I'd sling em my panniers and say "carry this lot then, mega enough for you now?"


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)




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## GrumpyGregry (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> 10 kg will make a difference on any climb, let alone some of the Scottish ones (Devon & Cornwall are the worst bits of LeJOG but there's plenty of others whichever route we follow). Keep working at the mileage and the climbing and you'll get up most of them OK anyway. World's smallest granny ring? Presumably paired with a 36t on the cassette?




Stu, bro, I reckon, I weigh twice what you do. My legs don't put out twice the power. Will you give me a tow through the Highlands?


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## ceepeebee (7 Jul 2011)

I just stuck Glasgow to Oban into google directions and got a little bit excited, looks amazing (and not overly gruelling)


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

StuAff said:


> 10 kg will make a difference on any climb, let alone some of the Scottish ones (Devon & Cornwall are the worst bits of LeJOG but there's plenty of others whichever route we follow).




Like Teef and Greg said, many of us, myself included weigh a substantial amount more than you do (more than 10kg) and we manage. While I'm not rude enough to say MTFU I would perhaps suggest there maybe mountains where there could be mole hills. You will be fine, and enjoy yourself with or without a support vehicle


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

ceepeebee said:


> I just stuck Glasgow to Oban into google directions and got a little bit excited, looks amazing (and not overly gruelling)



Very beautiful countryside, especially on the run in to Oban. 
One for earlier in the year though - last weekend the midges alongside Loch Awe were so thick that it felt (and sounded) like it was raining!


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## david1701 (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> bear in mind the starting point here..........at least one person on this ride will be carrying nothing and staying in a decent hotel every night. B+B at a push, but it had better be four star B+B. So the support will be for spares (think how clever we'll all feel if somebody pulls a spare wheel out of a van) and luggage. And evening wear. If, at any time, there's not sufficient people to make support financially viable, then you can call me Sherpa Dell



good shout, I don't think I can fit a suit bag in my pannier and where will my sparkly shoes go


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## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2011)

ceepeebee said:


> I just stuck Glasgow to Oban into google directions and got a little bit excited, looks amazing (and not overly gruelling)


it is a killer road. As in loads of death. Then again, I woudn't take a group ride down the A24 from Leatherhead to Dorking in the daytime, but, at night, there's nothing about and it would be hard to imagine anything less risky. I have to find out how much traffic there is at night - I suspect very little. I also need to work out if the midges fly at night.

The arrival, if you don't know it, is heartstoppingly beautiful. I would expect, nay, demand tears of joy.


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## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2011)

david1701 said:


> good shout, I don't think I can fit a suit bag in my pannier and where will my sparkly shoes go


I've told you before. No karaoke. When we need an Perry Como tribute act, we'll let you know!


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it is a killer road. As in loads of death. Then again, I woudn't take a group ride down the A24 from Leatherhead to Dorking in the daytime, but, at night, there's nothing about and it would be hard to imagine anything less risky. I have to find out how much traffic there is at night - I suspect very little. *I also need to work out if the midges fly at night.
> 
> *The arrival, if you don't know it, is heartstoppingly beautiful. I would expect, nay, demand tears of joy.



Some do some don't. The ones that do bite at night too!


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## StuAff (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> Like Teef and Greg said, many of us, myself included weigh a substantial amount more than you do (more than 10kg) and we manage. While I'm not rude enough to say MTFU I would perhaps suggest there maybe mountains where there could be mole hills. You will be fine, and enjoy yourself with or without a support vehicle



MTFU? I always do!


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## Becs (7 Jul 2011)

We should equip ourselves with plenty of Avon So Soft then - amazing stuff for keeping midges at bay!


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

frank9755 said:


> Very beautiful countryside, especially on the run in to Oban.
> One for earlier in the year though - last weekend the midges alongside Loch Awe were so thick that it felt (and sounded) like it was raining!



Not you too? Oh, that's Midge Ure, not midge, Awe... or am I getting all tangled up again, Franco?


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## MacB (7 Jul 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> We got away with it teef, he didn't notice your rude comment!



Ah, divide and conquer eh? I see Teef no longer deserves a capital T from you, don't worry big fella I still think of you with a big T


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> I also need to work out if the midges fly at night.



Last weekend they mostly went to bed when it got dark but they got up early


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

...it, I know, is very nice of you Al. And I still think fondly of you as that slim, trim athlete who came to play on the A12 all that time ago... threestrikesmcg. was a mere whippet... with hair apparently.


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## threebikesmcginty (7 Jul 2011)

threebikesmcginty said:


> We got away with it *T*eef, he didn't notice your rude comment!






MacB said:


> Ah, divide and conquer eh? I see Teef no longer deserves a capital T from you, don't worry big fella I still think of you with a big T



You must have changed it you chisler!


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Not you too? Oh, that's Midge Ure, not midge, Awe... or am I getting all tangled up again, Franco?


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

Are they AudaxUK midges Frank?

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ElmeVPQFs&feature=player_embedded#at=12[/media]


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## redjedi (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> We should equip ourselves with plenty of Avon So Soft then - amazing stuff for keeping midges at bay!



But who's going to carry all that?


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## frank9755 (7 Jul 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Are they AudaxUK midges Frank?



There are enough to go round!


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## martint235 (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> Now, for some people that would be too undemanding, and I aniticipate receiving e-mails saying 'sorry, if I'm going to take a week of work I'm going to be looking for something a bit more mega'.



Considering the thought you've already put into this, I would hope that no one would be so rude and ungrateful. Happy to go and "chat" to any such people for you.


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## User482 (7 Jul 2011)

Becs said:


> We should equip ourselves with plenty of Avon So Soft then - amazing stuff for keeping midges at bay!



I bought some in hope rather than expectation, but it does actually seem to work! Only problem is lots of dead midges on your arms and legs, but it's better than being bitten...


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## dellzeqq (7 Jul 2011)

martint235 said:


> Considering the thought you've already put into this, I would hope that no one would be so rude and ungrateful. Happy to go and "chat" to any such people for you.


it wouldn't be rude. People often have limited holidays, and I can quite see why they might want something different.


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## martint235 (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it wouldn't be rude. People often have limited holidays, and I can quite see why they might want something different.



I can understand that but no one is forcing anyone into this ride. If people want something different for whatever reason: limited holidays; can't understand 'Teef etc



, there are other options.


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## Aperitif (7 Jul 2011)

martint235 said:


> I can understand that but no one is forcing anyone into this ride. If people want something different for whatever reason: limited holidays; can't understand 'Teef etc
> 
> 
> 
> , there are other options.



I'm treating this ride like life - I'm not committed to it... yet! But I'll pull out if it makes the group happy. (Fat chance of making you happy, you miserable Northern git) 




Edited to add a 't' break.


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## Wobblers (7 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it is a killer road. As in loads of death. Then again, I woudn't take a group ride down the A24 from Leatherhead to Dorking in the daytime, but, at night, there's nothing about and it would be hard to imagine anything less risky. I have to find out how much traffic there is at night - I suspect very little. I also need to work out if the midges fly at night.
> 
> The arrival, if you don't know it, is heartstoppingly beautiful. I would expect, nay, demand tears of joy.



The A82 is a seriously nasty road. It's okay out of Glasgow (Great Western Road) as far as Old Kilpatrick, where it becomes a single lane racetrack - at least, that's how too many locals seem to regard it. There is a cycle path, along the Forth and Clyde Canal. And it's paved. Unfortunately, this being Glasgow, it's paved in broken glass [1]. The A82 where it runs along side Loch Lomond is not somewhere I'd be keen to cycle on in the day, at least. Nor would I be enthusiastic about taking a large group down there at night: far too many blind corners and though traffic is less, too many seem to forget about the existence of brakes. There is a cycle path round Loch Lomond - the old road, and apparently it's quite good. That may be the better option.

Are you thinking of heading off down the A83 to Inverary, then north to Loch Awe? I think that should be very quite at night - I can Make Enquiries and find out...

Edit: there shouldn't be too many little bastards midges in May, and the weather tends to be better (drier!) than later in the summer.


[1] Well, broken Buckie bottles, or as I like to call it: "Glasgow Snow".


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## threebikesmcginty (8 Jul 2011)

McWobble said:


> [1] Well, broken Buckie bottles, or as I like to call it: "Glasgow Snow".


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## frank9755 (8 Jul 2011)

McWobble said:


> the A83 to Inverary, then north to Loch Awe? I think that should be very quiet at night



It was deserted last Friday night


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## ceepeebee (8 Jul 2011)

McWobble said:


> The A82 is a seriously nasty road. It's okay out of Glasgow (Great Western Road) as far as Old Kilpatrick, where it becomes a single lane racetrack - at least, that's how too many locals seem to regard it. There is a cycle path, along the Forth and Clyde Canal. And it's paved. Unfortunately, this being Glasgow, it's paved in broken glass [1]. The A82 where it runs along side Loch Lomond is not somewhere I'd be keen to cycle on in the day, at least. Nor would I be enthusiastic about taking a large group down there at night: far too many blind corners and though traffic is less, too many seem to forget about the existence of brakes. There is a cycle path round Loch Lomond - the old road, and apparently it's quite good. That may be the better option.
> 
> Are you thinking of heading off down the A83 to Inverary, then north to Loch Awe? I think that should be very quite at night - I can Make Enquiries and find out...
> 
> ...



yep, I mentioned it to my Glaswegian colleague yesterday and all she said was "you be f***ing careful"


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## srw (8 Jul 2011)

It's a long shot, and would require negotiation or an early start, but the Gourock-Dunoon ferry would enable one to avoid trunk roads until well clear of "civilisation". 


Whichever way you cut it, Glasgow-Oban is a long trip. Straight up the A road is 90 miles+.


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## dellzeqq (8 Jul 2011)

srw said:


> It's a long shot, and would require negotiation or an early start, but the *Gourock-Dunoon* ferry would enable one to avoid trunk roads until well clear of "civilisation".
> 
> 
> Whichever way you cut it, Glasgow-Oban is a long trip. Straight up the A road is 90 miles+.


the subject of some research. The trouble with all this stuff is that there is really only one way to sort it. You have to go and 'spread the love'. I have a daughter in Glasgow, and I thought I'd go up for a couple of days and give it a go.


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## User482 (8 Jul 2011)

I took the cycle path fro Glasgow to loch lomond, it was covered in glass as already pointed out. The path from there is nicer than the busy road but doesn't take you all that far as I recall.


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## ceepeebee (8 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> the subject of some research. The trouble with all this stuff is that there is really only one way to sort it. You have to go and 'spread the love'. I have a daughter in Glasgow, and I thought I'd go up for a couple of days and give it a go.



I have a friend up there currently who is well up for this, if you want some local input - he was very enthused when I mentioned it to him yesterday.


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## dellzeqq (8 Jul 2011)

ceepeebee said:


> I have a friend up there currently who is well up for this, if you want some local input - he was very enthused when I mentioned it to him yesterday.


sounds good - would you pm me his e-mail address, or send him mine?


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## ceepeebee (8 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> sounds good - would you pm me his e-mail address, or send him mine?



done


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Jul 2011)

I took the path from Glasgow to Balloch on the shores of Lomond a few weekends ago. There is more broken glass outside my house.


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## frank9755 (8 Jul 2011)

I suspect the A82 would be fine at night but, as you say, someone needs to ride it to find out. 
Last weekend I didn't ride from Glasgow however, around 2am, I spent 20 minutes waiting at Crianlarich in sight of the A82/A83 junction and in that time not one single car passed the junction in any direction.

From Crianlarich onwards the A83 is a great road to cycle. Some gentle climbs but nothing steep, and a glorious long downhill to Dalmally. A bit of a climb to Oban, then a sweeping descent into town. Perhaps one car every 20 minutes through night. The only problem is that the road surface is, in some places, in an appalling condition.

This won't be a surprise to McW, but the summer nights are very short up there - only three or four hours of dark, and even then, despite there being no moon it never got completely dark.


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## Ravenbait (8 Jul 2011)

Cycling a main road, in Scotland, at night?

It's not like I've got previous or anything.

Sam


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## Flying Dodo (8 Jul 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> the subject of some research. The trouble with all this stuff is that there is really only one way to sort it. You have to go and 'spread the love'. I have a daughter in Glasgow, and I thought I'd go up for a couple of days and give it a go.



Ah - I did wonder why you're going via Glasgow which explains the Glasgow to Oban FNRttC earmarked for next year. You weren't thinking of Glasgow in the context of HPCJoG though were you, as it seems a bit odd to go towards the western side of Scotland, if you're aiming for JoG? 

The Forth road bridge (or even the Kessock Bridge in Inverness) with a critical mass of cyclists streaming across would be a quite a picture


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## dellzeqq (8 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> Ah - I did wonder why you're going via Glasgow which explains the Glasgow to Oban FNRttC earmarked for next year. You weren't thinking of Glasgow in the context of HPCJoG though were you, as it seems a bit odd to go towards the western side of Scotland, if you're aiming for JoG?
> 
> The Forth road bridge (or even the Kessock Bridge in Inverness) with a critical mass of cyclists streaming across would be a quite a picture


you're right - G2O would be a different thing from HPCJoG

my memory of the Kessock Bridge is taking it leaning at ten degrees from the vertical, the crosswind wailing like a banshee through the suspension cables. We'd come down the hill at 48mph, knuckles white. With a tailwind, or no wind at all, we'd have done well over 50mph.


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## threebikesmcginty (9 Jul 2011)

Ravenbait said:


> Cycling a main road, in Scotland, at night?



what me...the 13th Duke of Wybourne...with my reputation...etc


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## Aperitif (9 Jul 2011)

^ ha ha!


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## mmmmartin (14 Jul 2011)

Are there any dates for this yet? i know it's a long way off, but August I can do but June and September I can't. Also a chum might want to come along and he might need to shift some stuff around...............


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