# Just got a 'new' second hand Dawes Horizon. Want some opinions



## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

Hey guys

I wanted a bike for a while that I could go long distances on, basically one to three day trips cycling say from Bristol to London, or back, or travelling around Ireland this year. I bought a second hand Dawes Clubman for £400 (slightly over priced maybe but it was like new condition, the 2013 model) - I didn't know much about bikes and realize this is an 'audax' bike. It has a carbon fork and allegedly not much room to work with for mud guards or thicker tires. I'm not sure if either are absolutely necessary for my purposes (Though mud guards are becoming ever and ever more needed with the rain in Ireland.. ha.)

So here's where I bought this Horizon. I kinda rushed because I was spending £3+ a day on buses anyway and another month of that would have cost me a fortune not to mention the buses here in Belfast are shite, often deciding to disappear off the radar entirely or just not stop at the bus stop (maybe it's just my bad luck?)

So now I have a bike...(my clubman is back in England and I didn't want the hassle of shipping it over or it getting stolen) but I'm not sure what to do about the gearing. It has this old system which I don't even know the name of and feels a little dangerous in commuting environments, or at high speeds, faffing about without looking where I'm going properly etc.

_So the main situation is:

I can leave Ireland and flog the bike back to them, it seems popular, one of the bike mechanics wanted it himself. A friend of mine is also interested. I paid £120 and he fitted new chainsets, chain, saddle etc which he said would have cost in a standard bike shop £100 + alone. 

Or ... I can keep the bike, spruce up the surface rust on the frame, and try to upgrade the shifters...this could all cost in excess of £70-80++ and what I wonder is...

*Did I get a good deal on this ? Should I start using it as my 'main tourer' given the added clearance for mudguards and thicker tires? Or is my Clubman a better and equally suitable bike? I certainly prefer the way it rides and the STI shifters. Also great at trainstations, the carbon fork makes it very light. My thoughts are to stick with my clubman. I heard it also has a better frame though I've no idea.

Any thoughts? I'll add pics later , it's to dark at the moment.

The mechanic said I'd need STI 3x7 shifters which allegedly are hard to find. Starting to notice possible snags :P*_


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

As you can tell I'm very much a novice / noob. =)


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## Davidc (3 Apr 2014)

What age is it? It's a long time since Horizons had 3x7 gears.


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

Yeh, I don't know, I just wanted a bike, and I estimated it was at least 6+ years old, but I don't know exactly. I will try find out tomorrow I might see the guy again. I bought it because I was reassured my friend would take it off me for at least £90, so even if I use the bike for a month it only cost me £40, which is cheaper than all that public transport!

There was also a small part of me that wanted to show it TLC, given it had rust on the frame I thought it may get over looked. I'm glad I've at least played a role in getting it back on the road, if nothing else :P


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

The clubman should take 28mm tyres mudguards and a rear rack no problem and make a light fast tourer The horizon could be worth saving
New
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-S...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item43c7c36381 
Used
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-S...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item1c382ac81f

Some pics of the Dawes would be useful?


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## young Ed (3 Apr 2014)

the answer is obvious! you simply keep both 
i respect that you probably aren't made of money, not many of us are
but just putting together a simple saving plan like say a tenner a week or 20 quid a week, whatever you can afford really and you could fit out the clubman with sti shifters such as shimano tiagra or 105 of course checking they are compatible first or if the only compatible ones are lower ones such as shimano 2300 or tiagra etc then go for that

just feel free to ask on here about any technical questions or non-technical 
Cheers Ed
P.S: i am serious about keep them both as the clubman is great for riding at home and sort of 70 odd miles max or whatever you can do in one day but the horizon may also be comfier for that sort of distance


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## young Ed (3 Apr 2014)

oh and i believe the clubman came originally with mudgurds?

or fit a pair of these they are voted excellent by many
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/crud-roadracer-mk2-mudguard-set/
Cheers Ed


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

That was my thought - keeping it. The thing is my friend is very attached to getting it off me when I leave, he's already in love with it and hasn't ridden it. lol.

Thing is he strikes me as the type that will lose it, not lock it up and get it nicked... I'd sleep sounder at night knowing he bought a £50 mountain bike...I know within 6 months it'd be gone... and also left outside. He's not the caring type!

Pics... ok. let me try figure out how to use his SLR...


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## young Ed (3 Apr 2014)

Savio said:


> That was my thought - keeping it. The thing is my friend is very attached to getting it off me when I leave, he's already in love with it and hasn't ridden it. lol.
> 
> Thing is he strikes me as the type that will lose it, not lock it up and get it nicked... I'd sleep sounder at night knowing he bought a £50 mountain bike...I know within 6 months it'd be gone... and also left outside. He's not the caring type!
> 
> Pics... ok. let me try figure out how to use his SLR...


keep it 
don't let him have it if you even like it the slightest bit! 
Cheers Ed


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## smokeysmoo (3 Apr 2014)

Savio said:


> Pics... ok. let me try figure out how to use his SLR...


 to CC.

FYI, you might struggle to post them using the upload function until you've made more postings.

If that's the case just host them online with a site like Imageshack or Photobucket and then post the link on here


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

No mudguards on the clubman for me at least


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## Davidc (3 Apr 2014)

Mine's a 2008 model, and the 2007 model was similar but with an aluminium frame, and both had 3x8 gearing with STI shifters.

From your description the gears you have are non indexed, which for anyone not used to that can be a bit difficult.

The (steel) frames on the Horizons have always been good mid-range ones and the bikes hold a good value. I bought mine when it was a year old, and have recently been asked if I was thinking of selling it - complete with an offer 50% higher than I paid for it. On that basis you should be able to recoup much or all of your money.

My 2008 Horizon is one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned and very stable, but it's a bit heavy and certainly isn't a fast bike. (Neither is its rider any more).

The Clubman is a faster and lighter bike and I have seen them fitted with mudguards. I would have thought you could fit a rack and carry enough kit for short tours on the Clubman. Doesn't sound as if you're going to do 2 weeks camping using front and rear racks and full panniers but if you are the Horizon would be a better choice!


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

pics up... actually the gears are indexed and it's not too hard, just far from ideal, for me at least, being an inexperienced cyclist at best.

What appeals to me about keeping it, is it could be the bike I take on riskier tours where theft is more likely and I don't want to take a 4KG lock with me on my travels.

That makes sense right? I do have a hybrid 'real' bike, some aluminium halfords jobbie, second hand that I got for £85 - It rides ok but I bet the horizon is a cut above it in terms of material and build quality? then again, I have no idea.


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

Can anyone point me to a good guide on how to repaint the thing?


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

The horizon will be Reynolds steel look for a little sticker on the frame of that age I would have thought 531 but it might be 501?


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## Savio (3 Apr 2014)

531, see Pic :-)


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

Just seen pics its 531 ST its so worth keeping!


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

I would keep the period down tube shifters and put the cash to new wheels


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

Its late 80's early 90's looking at pics


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## Davidc (3 Apr 2014)

Very nice. One of Dawes' frames from before they went compact. I used to like downtube shifters, preferably not indexed, but that's probably because I grew up with them. I know lots of people didn't (and don't) like them. If you do replace them keep them in a box as they could help in selling later.

The frame should be repainted by a specialist. Search on this forum and you'll find several mentioned in old threads.



SS Retro said:


> Its late 80's early 90's looking at pics



Agree with you.


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## SS Retro (3 Apr 2014)

Looks like RX 100 front mech and down tube shifters can't see rear mech.


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## Nigeyy (4 Apr 2014)

I know some people like down tube or bar end shifters, but personally I like my shifters close to my natural hand position. You could consider Pauls Thumbies -thye are expensive, but then again you wouldn't need new shifters and could use the ones you already have (you'd just need new cables and possibly downtube barrel adjusters). By far my personal favourites are Kelly TakeOffs, but I don't think they are available now. 

Alternatively, you could go with a flat bar, but that would mean you'd probably end up with the need for a stem, levers and shifters -though assuming you can buy some bargains (Gripshift for shifters), it could still end up being cheaper anyway.

Nice bike btw!


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## mcshroom (4 Apr 2014)

For gearing I'd be tempted to leave them as they are. You'll get used to down-tube shifters and they won't feel as awkward. Otherwise, if you want to keep it 7sp then you could either get bar-end shifters, or a set of 'Tourney' level STI shifters - http://sports.jwethans.co.uk/Product_i156382

I have a 2012 Horizon (with lower spec Reynolds 520 steel tubing) as a tourer and I really like it.


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## Savio (6 Apr 2014)

I think I might let the bike go actually after riding around on it. The breaks are a little stiff, the shifters are taking time to get used to, they'll do, for now, but I can't imagine enjoying using them especially not for commuting which involves more stops and starts. I often find a lot of ups and downs here in Belfast too. If I want to upgrade the shifters, and get it powder coated, it's going to cost £100-130+... that brings it to potentially £250+ 

For what I bought it for, it's great, and decent value. But to really bring it back to life I don't think is currently worth it for me, there's other things I need more.

The romantic in me wants to properly restore it, especially as its a frame made in England not China (just feels more genuine!) and it's something I've wanted to do for a while but I'm trying to buy my first home and I need to scrape _every _possible penny together, and I can't justify having 3 bikes at this time, though, perhaps I should anticipate one getting stolen...then I might regret letting it go. _What's your opinion - only a matter of time? or can I keep hold of it with my chunky Abus lock? :P_

Considering that I can get a much newer bike though, with modern shifters etc for £250-300 on ebay, (specialized Tri-cross looks quite good, as I wouldn't mind something for exploring trails / going camping or across Europe, and I'm not sure an Audax would be good for that? But I suppose you guys could enlighten me?

I mean are modern or aluminium frames really bad for long distances? Given that I already have the Clubman audax, which is fine as a commuter and long distance slogger, wouldn't a nice hybrid be the next logical buy? Or is this 531 steel frame really that valuable? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291114279809?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

This auction is about to end... not sure if that's all I'd need to convert it to STI? They mentioned something else may be required... anyway...am I limited to 7 speed because of the drive chain (is that correct term?) they put on the bike? or is the bike itself somehow limited to 7x3?

Yeh, I'm a bike tard. School me :P


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## chriswoody (7 Apr 2014)

Well I for one think you have a sweet bike there with a lot of potential. The Horizon was one model down from Dawes famous and sought after Galaxy and a really nice bike in it's own right. Your Horizon probably dates from mid to late nineties going by the head badge. My very personal opinion is that Steel is definitely the way forward I have nothing but distrust in Aluminium after seeing numerous frame failures from fatigue. One of which was whilst on tour with a friend of mine, we were in Southern France and had just stopped at the bottom of a magnificent descent where we had been touching on 40mph, as he pulled away again the rear of the frame snapped. Looking at the break, half of it was old and had obliviously be growing over the proceeding weeks to the point where there wasn't enough frame left to hold the weight of the bike. That said though I would have a close look at the rust on your bike and check that it is not too serious and eating into the frame itself.

With the old technology there is good news and bad news. The spacing between the rear dropouts is large enough that you can pop a modern nine speed wheel in there if you so wish, and modern compact chainsets and external bottom brackets will also fit straight on. So drivetrain wise you can update and customise it to your exact needs with little trouble. Again with gear shifters the world is your clamshell, you can have the really old school downtube shifters, Bar end shifters or modern STI's. The only downside to all this modernising is the brakes, now this is only and opinion and you will need to check my facts, in the early to mid nineties Dawes bikes had narrow forks so you may well be stuck with the old cantilevers that it came with, I am on mine and it took a couple of expensive purchases before the penny dropped as to why nothing would fit! Tuned up by a good bike mechanic they are fine and will happily stop you fully laden, but they are no match for the responsiveness of modern brakes.

A lot of the above is based on my own experiences with my 1994 Dawes Super Galaxy. After years of long distance touring and day to day commuting she has covered thousands upon thousands of miles and has spent time rusting outdoors as well as other times being pampered. Original spec was very close to yours with a seven speed rear hub, but now it runs a nine speed rear hub with a full Deore LX drivetrain and external bottom bracket. The drivetrain is sweet and modern and as smooth as any brand new bike. The saddle has changed from this pic, otherwise this is pretty much how she looks today, not every ones cup of Horlicks I'll admit but I love it and it's good for many thousands more miles. So do yourself a favour and have a good ponder before you give up on the Horizon. It's is a good base bike with the same frame as mine (Basically the Reynolds 531ST is the dogs proverbial dangly bits in steel technology, however the top tube is a little on the small side and can vibrate fully loaded at speed, which is why Dawes made them fatter on later bikes.) and will stand you for many thousands of miles if you want.


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## frank9755 (9 Apr 2014)

Sell it!
It won't do much that your Clubman won't do, but the Clubman is always going to be nicer to ride. 
You could spend loads of money doing it up and you'd have something that was fine for running around but nothing special. Let someone who can do most of the work themselves do it up.

FWIW, I ride to work on a c.1986 Super Galaxy that I did up myself. I did most of the work and it took far longer than I thought it would. I'm happy with it; I leave it locked up on the street and it is still there when I come back, but it's not great to ride.


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## vernon (9 Apr 2014)

It really isn't worth investing a lot of cash in upgrading and respraying because at the end of it you will have an expensive twenty plus year old bike that has cost you a lot more than a second hand more modern bike. 

As for the steel vs aluminium frame argument, I have had two different Dawes Galaxy frames fracture at the rear drop out on the drive side. The first one I managed to get brazed up and was back on the road within two hours - not bad for a breakage that happened at 19:00 on a Friday night, The second one happened just outside of Orleans and, having mentally costed up the repair, respray and drive train replacement - it was at the end of its life, a £350 brand new Decathlon aluminium framed hybrid tourer was a more cost effective solution to the problem.

I know of at least five, including my two, drop out fractures on Dawes Galaxies. I don't know of anyone who has had an aluminium frame break on them. Though clearly it does happen.

As for ride quality, steel vs aluminium, I didn't detect any difference between the steel and aluminium framed bikes. I suspect that the difference is more advertising hype and review driven than tangible.


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