# Suggestion - Lady Cyclists Section?



## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2021)

We're frequently told that women are under-represented on this site and they're deterred from posting by males. Would there be mileage in a women's only section where women can discuss issues affecting them freely?


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## classic33 (5 Apr 2021)

There has been one, but some female posters objected against it, so it was removed.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2021)

Really? Why?


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## Dag Hammar (5 Apr 2021)

What sort of response would there be if it were proposed to have a Men Only section ?

and before some smart a..e replies with a ‘witty’ response, I am not referring to the magazine that carries that same title.


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## PeteXXX (5 Apr 2021)

How do us men know that there isn't one already, set up as a 'private' group? 👀


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## Darius_Jedburgh (5 Apr 2021)

I think the woke brigade have already scuppered this.
If there was to be a women only section then no men would be allowed in there, either posting or viewing. Regular moderation would be needed to ensure that the Me2 brigade were not upset in any way.
But, to avoid problems with equal opportunities legislation there would have to be a corresponding Men Only section. This too would have to be regularly moderated to ensure that only males could post, or visit. Who is going to moderate all that?
Then we have the ever so fashionable trans brigade. Where would their section be, and who would be allowed into it. And how do you prove that you are male/female/male wanting to be female/female wanting to be male or a member of any other politically correct minority interest group.

The forum would collapse under the weight of hipsters and Karens and their self interested demands.


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## I like Skol (5 Apr 2021)

That went well.....


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## Mugshot (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> We're frequently told that women are under-represented on this site and they're deterred from posting by males.





Darius_Jedburgh said:


> I think the woke brigade have already scuppered this.
> If there was to be a women only section then no men would be allowed in there, either posting or viewing. Regular moderation would be needed to ensure that the Me2 brigade were not upset in any way.
> But, to avoid problems with equal opportunities legislation there would have to be a corresponding Men Only section. This too would have to be regularly moderated to ensure that only males could post, or visit. Who is going to moderate all that?
> Then we have the ever so fashionable trans brigade. Where would their section be, and who would be allowed into it. And how do you prove that you are male/female/male wanting to be female/female wanting to be male or a member of any other politically correct minority interest group.
> ...


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## flake99please (5 Apr 2021)

Cycling is for everyone, as is this forum. It would be great to have considerably more women both here, and on two wheels enjoying the fresh air.

As has been discussed on numerous occasions in the past. There needs to be a somewhat different approach to the current MO that would allow women feel safer when outdoors.

Until numbers of women on bikes increase, we will always continue to have a fairly limited number of female posters within the forums.


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

Issues affecting women 're cycling or general stuff.

If it's cycling then there are no real differences between men and women regarding problems when cycling. The only problems are the stupid comments that a very small number of men make. It's BORING.

If it's general stuff then there are plenty of forums where women can go.

Having a part of the forum just for women won't work. It's a general cycling forum.


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## T4tomo (5 Apr 2021)

To be fair, it's pretty easy to spot a women specific thread, like bib shorts or saddles etc, with women requesting advice from other women.


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## Mo1959 (5 Apr 2021)

Lots of women cyclists around here. Maybe we just don’t feel the need to talk about it as much?


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## alicat (5 Apr 2021)

^^^ wot @Mo1959 said.


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## Pat "5mph" (5 Apr 2021)

There are already plenty of women's only cycling pages on Facebook.
It's probably outside the scope of a public forum like Cycle Chat.
Anyway, as said above, who would moderate it?


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2021)

It just seems to me that a prominent thread on women's issues in NACA is stalling because it is becoming men v women, or at least perceived to be. This is 2021 and the issue of violence against women is an important and current one. My wife had a look at the thread and said, as a woman, she wouldn't touch it because of the toxic attitudes on display by some men and some women. 

Yes, this is a cycling forum but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Maybe a "Safe Space" would allow women cyclists to discuss these important issues freely and openly. 

Of course, I'm not the one to say if it's needed or not but I thought it was worth raising either as a forum where only women could see it or where all could see it but only women could post.


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## shep (5 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> The only problems are the stupid comments that a very small number of men make. It's BORING.



If you don't mind me asking, are the comments from Male cyclists or just your general kno*head walking or driving by?


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It just seems to me that a prominent thread on women's issues in NACA is stalling because it is becoming men v women, or at least perceived to be. This is 2021 and the issue of violence against women is an important and current one. My wife had a look at the thread and said, as a woman, she wouldn't touch it because of the toxic attitudes on display by some men and some women.
> 
> Yes, this is a cycling forum but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Maybe a "Safe Space" would allow women cyclists to discuss these important issues freely and openly.
> 
> Of course, I'm not the one to say if it's needed or not but I thought it was worth raising either as a forum where only women could see it or where all could see it but only women could post.



the women on CC would probably be able to have a very heated err discussion between themselves with or without men joining in, and discussions would stall even faster as there are so few women, so its a lose lose situation.


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

shep said:


> If you don't mind me asking, are the comments from Male cyclists or just your general kno*head walking or driving by?




I'm talking about on CC. That is what this thread is about after all. Those other things are a different story


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## shep (5 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> I'm talking about on CC. That is what this thread is about after all. Those other things are a different story


Oops, sorry.


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

shep said:


> Oops, sorry.


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## Edwardoka (5 Apr 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> I think the woke brigade have already scuppered this.
> If there was to be a women only section then no men would be allowed in there, either posting or viewing. Regular moderation would be needed to ensure that the Me2 brigade were not upset in any way.
> But, to avoid problems with equal opportunities legislation there would have to be a corresponding Men Only section. This too would have to be regularly moderated to ensure that only males could post, or visit. Who is going to moderate all that?
> Then we have the ever so fashionable trans brigade. Where would their section be, and who would be allowed into it. And how do you prove that you are male/female/male wanting to be female/female wanting to be male or a member of any other politically correct minority interest group.
> ...


Dr. Edgar prescribes forty reps of your nearest big climb, to give you some peace from the worms infesting your brain with culture war bollocks.


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## Tongsheng (5 Apr 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> I think the woke brigade have already scuppered this.
> If there was to be a women only section then no men would be allowed in there, either posting or viewing. Regular moderation would be needed to ensure that the Me2 brigade were not upset in any way.
> But, to avoid problems with equal opportunities legislation there would have to be a corresponding Men Only section. This too would have to be regularly moderated to ensure that only males could post, or visit. Who is going to moderate all that?
> Then we have the ever so fashionable trans brigade. Where would their section be, and who would be allowed into it. And how do you prove that you are male/female/male wanting to be female/female wanting to be male or a member of any other politically correct minority interest group.
> ...


I couldnt agree more. It seems to me like some of these so called minority groups with their calls for equality wont be happy unless their in the special category. As for their, for them only categories and safe spaces, I cant see some of them being happy until they get full segregation. How things are perceived is another one. How things are and could be perceived are being weaponised. Yes Women should be able to feel safe walking down the street. Everbody should feel safe walking down the street or in their homes but weaponising it for political point scoring by the liberal hard left and the main stream media is disgraceful. In the week all these people were protesting and wanting to put us men under curfew. Of course no mention of Emma-Jayne Magson who was just given a life sentence with a recommendation to serve 17 years who tortured and killed her boyfriend during lockdown. You would think the Media would be all over that but not a peep as it would hurt their narrative. Besides their too busy brainwashing the sheeple. The media are not your friend, and people are slowly but surely waking up to the fact. Anyway before all you trolls and haters get your knickers in a twist and call me a far right knuckle dragging racist, dont waste your time. I do love highlighting hypocrisy and I'm used to it. My opinions are my own and if some people dont agree with what im saying you will have to deal with it because I have a right to share my opinions and to be honest, I dont care


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## Edwardoka (5 Apr 2021)

Tongsheng said:


> I couldnt agree more. It seems to me like some of these so called minority groups with their calls for equality wont be happy unless their in the special category. As for their, for them only categories and safe spaces, I cant see some of them being happy until they get full segregation. How things are perceived is another one. How things are and could be perceived are being weaponised. Yes Women should be able to feel safe walking down the street. Everbody should feel safe walking down the street or in their homes but weaponising it for political point scoring by the liberal hard left and the main stream media is disgraceful. In the week all these people were protesting and wanting to put us men under curfew. Of course no mention of Emma-Jayne Magson who was just given a life sentence with a recommendation to serve 17 years who tortured and killed her boyfriend during lockdown. You would think the Media would be all over that but not a peep as it would hurt their narrative. Besides their too busy brainwashing the sheeple. The media are not your friend, and people are slowly but surely waking up to the fact. Anyway before all you trolls and haters get your knickers in a twist and call me a far right knuckle dragging racist, dont waste your time. I do love highlighting hypocrisy and I'm used to it. My opinions are my own and if some people dont agree with what im saying you will have to deal with it because I have a right to share my opinions and to be honest, I dont care


I was going to prescribe 40 reps of Kinnoull Hill (as in feckinnoull) but I think Necessity Brae would be more appropriate.


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## Mugshot (5 Apr 2021)

We should rename this place CycleChan.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2021)

I think my point is being made most eloquently


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## Rocky (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I think my point is being made most eloquently


I agree 100%


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Apr 2021)

Seriously though, men can't challenge some feminists. Only women can do that and they can't do that in spaces where men are reacting.


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## Rocky (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Seriously though, men can't challenge some feminists. Only women can do that and they can't do that in spaces where men are reacting.


I don't have any problems challenging any one - but it helps if you start with an open mind, a preparedness to see other's views, and some evidence to back up your arguments. From reading your posts over the years, I suspect you are the same. Some on here, aren't.


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## BoldonLad (5 Apr 2021)

Don't have any problem with a "women only section" (or a men only section), but...

If the objective is to increase harmony and integration, how will separation help?, isn't that the "apartheid approach" ?

Given CC is an online forum, how will gender be "policed" ?


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## Arrowfoot (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It just seems to me that a prominent thread on women's issues in NACA is stalling because it is becoming men v women, or at least perceived to be. This is 2021 and the issue of violence against women is an important and current one. My wife had a look at the thread and said, as a woman, she wouldn't touch it because of the toxic attitudes on display by some men and some women.
> 
> Yes, this is a cycling forum but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Maybe a "Safe Space" would allow women cyclists to discuss these important issues freely and openly.
> 
> Of course, I'm not the one to say if it's needed or not but I thought it was worth raising either as a forum where only women could see it or where all could see it but only women could post.


Frankly I would not hang my coat on a single thread titled Jenny Jones #curfewformen. Rather than a collaborative approach to seek a solution it started out with highly divisive title. If it had the title "Stop the violence against Women" or "Not another Sarah Everard Please" it would have set a better tone.

On a pro rata basis, my guess is that women members are contributing effectively and engaging in many topics. In fact the women contributions in NACA, supposedly "toxic " is much higher than elsewhere.

I am aware that in some forums women have deliberately disguised their gender to avoid bias. Personally I thought CC is a lot more welcoming.

What we need is a wider spectrum of political views - left, right, moderates etc.


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## Cathryn (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> We're frequently told that women are under-represented on this site and they're deterred from posting by males. Would there be mileage in a women's only section where women can discuss issues affecting them freely?



It's a lovely idea and I appreciate the thought and sentiment behind it. I was here when there was a women's section - if I remember correctly, it wasn't taken down because 'some women objected to it' but because the majority of women involved didn't think it was particularly necessary as Cyclechat was felt to be a friendly and welcoming environment. 

I rejoined the site recently and still think that's the case. I would feel comfortable raising most female-specific questions on the forum - the particularly delicate ones, I wouldn't raise. There are a couple of excellent female-only forums on FB which would be a better place to ask those questions. That's not a reflection on CC - more on the delicacy of the issues being raised. 

Those FB pages do a fabulous job of catering for women cyclists - I don't think we need to replicate it here on CC. The important thing is that women feel welcomed and comfortable here, and able to ask questions without being shot down. With the exception of the News/Current Affairs thread at times, I'd say that's the case. Clearly that's just my opinion.


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## contadino (5 Apr 2021)

If there's some aspect of cycling as a pastime that women find intimidating or uneasy about, I'd like to know about it so that I can adjust my behaviour if necessary.

So having a sub-forum where that sort of thing is discussed that I'd not be able to see wouldn't be worthwhile in my view.

ETA: I have several members and sub-forums on ignore, so that increases the chances of me missing discussion anyway.


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## Faratid (5 Apr 2021)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> I think the woke brigade have already scuppered this.
> If there was to be a women only section then no men would be allowed in there, either posting or viewing. Regular moderation would be needed to ensure that the Me2 brigade were not upset in any way.
> But, to avoid problems with equal opportunities legislation there would have to be a corresponding Men Only section. This too would have to be regularly moderated to ensure that only males could post, or visit. Who is going to moderate all that?
> Then we have the ever so fashionable trans brigade. Where would their section be, and who would be allowed into it. And how do you prove that you are male/female/male wanting to be female/female wanting to be male or a member of any other politically correct minority interest group.
> ...


Well don't worry, you're well represented here and can continue to enjoy your hateful, bigoted, mysogynistic tripe. Woke means 'aware of, and sensitive to the existence and rights of a diverse range of peoples race, gender identity, and personal beliefs.' But of course, it's only your values that are valid and widely accepted. It's a privilege that many don't enjoy. Perhaps you'd be happier joining National Action.


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## theclaud (5 Apr 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It just seems to me that a prominent thread on women's issues in NACA is stalling because it is becoming men v women, or at least perceived to be. This is 2021 and the issue of violence against women is an important and current one. My wife had a look at the thread and said, as a woman, she wouldn't touch it because of the toxic attitudes on display by some men and some women.
> 
> Yes, this is a cycling forum but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Maybe a "Safe Space" would allow women cyclists to discuss these important issues freely and openly.
> 
> Of course, I'm not the one to say if it's needed or not but I thought it was worth raising either as a forum where only women could see it or where all could see it but only women could post.


1. Male violence against women is not a 'women's issue'. It's everyone's problem.
2. The thread in question is not 'men v women'. It's a thread with thoughtful contributors of both sexes, plus a handful of (mostly) men who are disingenuous, resentful or openly trolling.
3. If men could post on it, a small disruptive contingent would behave as they do whenever women are leading or shaping the conversation elsewhere on the forum. If they couldn't post on it but women were permitted to discuss whatever they liked, the same perpetually butthurt contingent would be whinging and reporting to the mods.
4. Your wife is fast becoming the Mrs Mainwaring of P&L. 
5. I ain't no Lady, but thanks all the same.


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## mudsticks (5 Apr 2021)

Mmmn, I don't think a 'woman's only' space, would be helpful really.

If I want to speak to women only, I've got other places on the web to do that, or I can set up a private group chat here.

It would be nice if a few of the guys on here could think more about the way they phrase things, when they talk about women, and the issues that women specifically encounter. 

And how they address the women discussing them.

Remembering that men can have a tendency to take over spaces, perhaps without even realising, they're doing it

(if more women being here really is the goal )

It comes across as dismissive, or worse sometimes.

Violence against women, isn't really. a 'women's issue' is it? 

It's very rarely women doing violence to women. 

A more general example from the forum.. 

- I can't remember the detail of the thread, but someone was asking for information about a female specific saddle for his daughter, a little while back.

Another poster said something along the lines of.

"Oh, I was going to make a joke, about this, but it didn't seem appropriate as its about your daughter"

Which made me cringe, more than a bit.

If it wasn't appropriate because of someones daughter, why would it be appropriate with other women reading it.?

We're all someone's daughter- why would we want to read that stuff ?? 

As a woman, I wouldn't make a joke about a potentially sensitive area of male anatomy, that was causing bother.

That would just seem rude.

Of course I know, some guys wouldn't mind.

Others would mind 'a lot' .

If in doubt, leave it out..?

TBH there's stuff said to women on here, and with regard to women, that has had made me think about quitting on several occasions.

Is that intended? I don't know.

I'm used to working, and playing in 'trad male' environments, and spend a lot of time with men, so I'm not unused to their company, or ways of speaking.

Maybe it's the anonymity of t'internet that emboldens people to say stuff here they might not elsewhere, to real life people.?
IDK.

If anything, I'm the reverse, there are things I definitely wouldn't say here (jokes, or other stuff ) because without people knowing the whole person who's saying those things.
Or the context, in which they're offered, they could easily be misconstrued.

- I'm sure i've managed to give offence in my turn, anyhow.

In which case... Sorreee... I didn't mean it. 

- Unless you had it coming 

I'm not sure I would recommend CC to all my cycling friends, particularly not the younger ones.

Of any gender.

I suspect they'd find some of the slightly outdated attitudes on here a bit hard to swallow. Find it tricky to resist challenging them - and then probs get leapt on for being 'PC gawn mad' or whatever.



I'm not even going to ask my boyfriend what _he_ thinks about the way some guys address women on here, he'd probs have to get the duelling pistols out 


Personally I find that 'unreconstructed' side of things quite interesting, from an anthropological pov.

Can take _most_ of it, with a pinch of salt, or at the very least a resigned sigh..

Having said all that, the _vast_ majority of people seem absolutely fine, and freindly, most of the time.
(Or at least no more bizarre than the rest of the world)

Even _if_ we disagree.

I've learnt lots.. (Most of it, _not_ about bikes, I'm fairly well genned up on that stuff)

CC no doubt provides a _mainly_ freindly,, highly diverse. sometimes even _funny_, forum for all things cycling and besides.

The 'besides' part - in addition to helmets- must create a nightmare for the mods - well done to them.

Hope they get _something_ out of it. 

All hail, the unsung admin staff, as ever.


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

Wow. I see this thread started off badly, then went downhill rapidly, and we are now onto the usual arguments with the same old people.

Anything decent on the TV tonight?


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## Mugshot (5 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Wow. I see this thread started off badly, then went downhill rapidly, and we are now onto the usual arguments with the same old people.
> 
> Anything decent on the TV tonight?


There's always the "Tea" and "Retirement" threads if you'd rather.


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## mudsticks (5 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Wow. I see this thread started off badly, then went downhill rapidly, and we are now onto the usual arguments with the same old people.
> 
> Anything decent on the TV tonight?



Dunno.. 

IHGAT 

But aren't there a bazillion channels on nowadays ?? 

There _must_ be something...


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## welsh dragon (5 Apr 2021)

mudsticks said:


> Dunno..
> 
> IHGAT
> 
> ...




Anything would be better than this load of crap yet again. There will be another 9 gazillion pages of utter tripe I daresay. There always is.

Time to knock it on the head for me. Enjoy the nonsense folks.


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## Mugshot (5 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Anything would be better than this load of crap yet again. There will be another 9 gazillion pages of utter tripe I daresay. There always is.
> 
> Time to knock it on the head for me. Enjoy the nonsense folks.


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## Rickshaw Phil (5 Apr 2021)

Well, it looks like the suggestion doesn't really have a great deal of support so I'll bring the thread to a close here while it's still relatively amiable.

Creating new sections is @Shaun's province so he'll be able to look in on this thread and judge if it should be reviewed when he has a spare moment.


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