# Giro d'Italia 2016 ***spoilers***



## mjr (28 Jan 2016)

Wildcards announced for this and RCS's smaller races: http://velonews.competitor.com/2016...cards-includes-russias-gazprom-rusvelo_393103

Main surprise is Gazprom-RusVelo takes a Giro wildcard instead of Androni Giacottoli (doping) or Roompot-Oranje (who were widely-predicted to replace them).


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> Wildcards announced for this and RCS's smaller races: http://velonews.competitor.com/2016...cards-includes-russias-gazprom-rusvelo_393103
> 
> Main surprise is Gazprom-RusVelo takes a Giro wildcard instead of Androni Giacottoli (doping) or Roompot-Oranje (who were widely-predicted to replace them).


From the 2016 build up thread:


Marmion said:


> The 4 wildcards for the Giro have been announced:
> Gazprom - Rusvelo, Bardiani - CSF, Nippo - Vini Fantini, and Southeast - Venezuela
> 
> Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/01/news/giro-ditalia-announces-2016-wildcards-includes-russias-gazprom-rusvelo_393103#GXUbbUWDKA5mfAHV.99
> ...


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## mjr (28 Jan 2016)

Oh so that's a general thread and not an event called "build up"!


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## rich p (29 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> Oh so that's a general thread and not an event called "build up"!



I suppose Marmion meant that it's not such a 'surprise' given that it was widely reported a couple of weeks ago?


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## mjr (29 Jan 2016)

rich p said:


> I suppose Marmion meant that it's not such a 'surprise' given that it was widely reported a couple of weeks ago?


Not so widely. Only appeared on one site I'm subscribed to (which I'm a bit late catching up with, I know) and no one had yet posted it to a giro thread on here


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## rich p (29 Jan 2016)

mjray said:


> Not so widely. Only appeared on one site I'm subscribed to (which I'm a bit late catching up with, I know) and no one had yet posted it to a giro thread on here


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## rich p (2 May 2016)

Ladbrokes current odds for the Giro.
Nibali and Landa are not that clear a favourite on recent form in my opinion. Landa is still a dodgy TTer and Nibali has shown little or known form.
Valverde has a better chance than previous years. 
Dumoulin could hang in and take time in the ITTs
Chavez at 40-1? Possibly though I'm not sure what he's been up to.


Nibali 13/8
Mikel Landa 5/2 
Alejandro Valverde 5/1
Rigoberto Uran 10/1
Ilnur Zakarin 10/1
Rafal Majka 14/1
Tom Dumoulin 25/1
Domenico Pozzovivo 25/1
Jakob Fuglsang 33/1
Johan Esteban Chaves 40/1


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## Crackle (2 May 2016)

Too soon for Zakarin maybe but he's certainly getting there. Uran has looked good this year. If he can avoid a bad day, he could do it.


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## rliu (2 May 2016)

Nibali has a knack of laying low and then peaking, remember how Vinokourov publicly criticised him for his Spring Classics form before he won TdF in 2014? I just don't see the serious threat from other contenders at the moment, Uran has a weak team around him and Valverde is really more a one day racer now than a GT contender.


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## 2IT (3 May 2016)

rliu said:


> Nibali has a knack of laying low and then peaking, remember how Vinokourov publicly criticised him for his Spring Classics form before he won TdF in 2014? I just don't see the serious threat from other contenders at the moment, Uran has a weak team around him and Valverde is really more a one day racer now than a GT contender.



Valverde not having to ride in support of Quintana may help or hurt him. Looks like all the big guns are going for le Tour.


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## ColinJ (3 May 2016)

I have absolutely no idea who is going to do well, but I always enjoy the race. I'll pay one last month on my Eurosport Player subscription to be able to watch it, and then cancel!


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## 2IT (4 May 2016)

Won't you then be tempted to keep it for the Tour?


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## Dogtrousers (4 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Too soon for Zakarin maybe but he's certainly getting there. *Uran has looked good this year.* If he can avoid a bad day, he could do it.


I normally stay out of pundit discussions, on the grounds that I am clueless. However, I would note that on the couple of occasions that Uran has met the random inclusion criteria for one of my fantasy teams he has started off mediocre, and then become pants.


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## Crackle (4 May 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I normally stay out of pundit discussions, on the grounds that I am clueless. However, I would note that on the couple of occasions that Uran has met the random inclusion criteria for one of my fantasy teams he has started off mediocre, and then become pants.


He might do a Leicester though.


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## ColinJ (4 May 2016)

2IT said:


> Won't you then be tempted to keep it for the Tour?


I had a cheap annual deal with Eurosport but that lapsed when my debit card details changed. They refused to give me the same deal with the new card - I was miffed! 

I then realised that I only need Eurosport for the Spring classics and the Giro. We can get the Tour de France and Vuelta free on our ITV4 channel. They also cover the Tour of Britain. I can get the Olympics, the World Road Championships and track cycling on the BBC. So, I am now only subscribing to Eurosport for 4 months of the year and saving money over what I paid before!


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## fimm (4 May 2016)

Does anybody know why ITV4 don't show the Giro?


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## brommers (4 May 2016)

fimm said:


> Does anybody know why ITV4 don't show the Giro?



It's probably because Eurosport is available in many countries


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## Milkfloat (4 May 2016)

fimm said:


> Does anybody know why ITV4 don't show the Giro?



I blame the lack of Brits in 2015 and now 2016.


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## mjr (4 May 2016)

fimm said:


> Does anybody know why ITV4 don't show the Giro?


The Giro wanted more money than the Tour, according to Ned or Matt on Twitter a few years ago.


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## smutchin (4 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Nibali and Landa are not that clear a favourite on recent form in my opinion. Landa is still a dodgy TTer and Nibali has shown little or known form.



It seems to me that Nibali is having a quiet spring even by his usual standards. I've looked back at his stats for 2013 and it seems that he is riding a fairly similar race program, although the big difference is that he won both Trentino and Tirreno-Adriatico that year.

The amount of TTing in this year's race does give him a massive advantage over Landa though. And Uran, for that matter.

It could be a very open race.


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## Spinney (5 May 2016)

At the request of Marmion I've added spoilers to the title, so you can also discuss results here.


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## Hont (5 May 2016)

rliu said:


> Nibali has a knack of laying low and then peaking


The Andy Schleck MO. 

I'm happier when GT winners show form all year.


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## ColinJ (5 May 2016)

Hont said:


> The Andy Schleck MO.


Except that Nibali will not be falling off his bike three times a day!


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## Berk on a Bike (5 May 2016)

Trek have been tweeting this morning that Cancellara is ill but hopes to start tomorrow.


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## smutchin (5 May 2016)

Hont said:


> I'm happier when GT winners show form all year.



Surely not ALL year? That would be most unusual!


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## Hont (5 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Trek have been tweeting this morning that Cancellara is ill but hopes to start tomorrow.


He has the squits stomach flu

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-hit-by-stomach-flu-ahead-of-giro-ditalia/


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## 400bhp (5 May 2016)

fimm said:


> Does anybody know why ITV4 don't show the Giro?



Probably something to do with contracts and it not beoig part of ASO, who own and run the TDF, Vuelta etc.


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## HF2300 (5 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Trek have been tweeting this morning that Cancellara is ill but hopes to start tomorrow.



Dumoulin and others tipped him for the opening TT, so that was him done for.


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## brommers (5 May 2016)

Startlist


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## HF2300 (6 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> One wonders how late Trek can leave it before announcing Cancellara as a DNS. He's second last off the ramp so he's got three hours yet.



He might just suffer round in the hope of staying in the fight if at all possible, unless he's completely incapable.


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## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2016)

Dumoulin, Roglic, Amador

Great performance by Roglic, who I had completely forgotten about, and Amador perhaps setting out his case to be Movistar's designated rider instead of Valverde... Cancellara clearly not entirely recovered.


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## mjr (6 May 2016)

Aren't time trials the racing equivalent of watching paint dry? I've put it on the radio and returned to my office. Seems like Dumoulin has won, taking pink. Excites the Dutch crowd, but yawn.

Interesting that they didn't seem to be using any Dutch cycle tracks, unlike the edition that started with a TTT on the cycle track near San Remo.


HF2300 said:


> He might just suffer round in the hope of staying in the fight if at all possible, unless he's completely incapable.


Cancellara 8th place when he finished, 14seconds down over 10 minutes or so, so it seems so. Maybe hoping to keep up for the first week, then take pink in the second ITT.


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## Hont (6 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Aren't time trials the racing equivalent of watching paint dry?


I'll take a TT over a flat, sprinters stage any day.

Plus this...


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## mjr (6 May 2016)

Good point @Hont: time trials near the end of races are more exciting than when they all start from zero like today, but I'd still take a good racing stage over a final ITT. I think even the flat sprinters stages are more fun to watch, guessing whether the sprint teams will reel the breakaway in, or whether they're letting EQS take the lead


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 May 2016)

A nice wee winning start to the Giro, take that Mr Ladbrokes and your crazy head-to-head bets!


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## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2016)

One key thing is how well Nibali did compared to other GC contenders. Here's my version of the top GC contenders only chart:

1 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Giant-Alpecin 0:01:04
16 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:19
22 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 0:00:22 
23 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:24 
38 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:00:32 
43 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:00:33 
60 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:00:38 
67 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa) Team Sky 0:00:40 
97 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:47


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## smutchin (6 May 2016)

Landa did well to only lose 40 seconds.


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## 400bhp (6 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Landa did well to only lose 40 seconds.



Apparently he thinks he did better than expected.


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## 400bhp (6 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> One key thing is how well Nibali did compared to other GC contenders. Here's my version of the top GC contenders only chart:
> 
> 1 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Giant-Alpecin 0:01:04
> 16 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:19
> ...



Oi - Chaves. Only 30s down.


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## Flying_Monkey (6 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> Oi - Chaves. Only 30s down.



Oh, sorry. Should have included him.


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## rich p (7 May 2016)

With 3 ITTs, I can't see Landa being able to take enough time to win this.


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## Crackle (7 May 2016)

rich p said:


> With 3 ITTs, I can't see Landa being able to take enough time to win this.


One is a mtn TT, he might do better at that


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 May 2016)

Having looked at the sprinters lead-out trains I am surprised that nobody (so far) has gone for Pelucchi in punditry; but I made my picks a couple of days ago and will stick by them. Might trouble Mr Ladbrokes tho... 

I was impressed with Geniez's time yesterday, only 2 seconds behind Nibali.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 May 2016)

Lotto-Jumbo going for a youthful line-up


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 May 2016)

Leaving it a bit late, 200 metres from the finish of today's stage. Tweeted by Ned Boulting


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## DCLane (7 May 2016)

Hope the cement dries in time ...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 May 2016)

Just caught up with watching the stage. Kittel was outstanding (and beautiful, obvs) and won that in style.


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## ColinJ (7 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just caught up with watching the stage. Kittel was outstanding (and beautiful, obvs) and won that in style.


Eurosport came up with the ultimate spoiler during this evening's highlights show ... 

The peloton had reeled in the break and the long build-up to the sprint had begun, just time for a few final ads. 

Before returning to the highlights, it was time for a trailer for tomorrow's stage. "_Another day for the sprinters ... _" illustrated with a photograph of Kittel winning today's stage ... Aaaaaaaaaaargh!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (7 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Eurosport came up with the ultimate spoiler


Nightmare!


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## HF2300 (8 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Eurosport came up with the ultimate spoiler during this evening's highlights show ... Before returning to the highlights, it was time for a trailer for tomorrow's stage. "_Another day for the sprinters ... _" illustrated with a photograph of Kittel winning today's stage ... Aaaaaaaaaaargh!



I can never believe some TV people are that dull, yet they consistently are. Producers and directors of TV programmes must tear their hair out at the activities of the people that do the trailers and promos - not to mention the bit at the end of a programme that always gives you the highlights of the next episode.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 May 2016)

Ouch! Sore one for Peraud


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## mjr (8 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Ouch! Sore one for Peraud


Sore what? I saw him getting into the ambulance but missed why.

Damned shame to be taken out by your teammate, though.

Situation normal: today's hopeless breakaway getting slowly reeled in by the sprint train teams.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Sore what? I saw him getting into the ambulance but missed why.
> 
> Damned shame to be taken out by your teammate, though.
> 
> Situation normal: today's hopeless breakaway getting slowly reeled in by the sprint train teams.


Sore face (not the side you could see when he was in the Ambulance), took full impact as he went over the top of his teammate.


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## Berk on a Bike (8 May 2016)

Rob Hatch commentating on Eurosport just mentioned seeing "a pink helmet popping out". Made me laugh.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 May 2016)

The Beautiful Marcel wins!!!!!!!!!!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 May 2016)

By a distance again.


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## Crackle (8 May 2016)

He's looking a bit sharp in every way is our Marcel.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> He's looking a bit sharp in every way is our Marcel.


He's *my* Marcel, get your hands off him!


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## SWSteve (8 May 2016)

Marcel has one lean face. He has lost weight in the last couple of years. 

Peraud's face was a state, I can't imagine how painful it must be


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## Dave Davenport (8 May 2016)

Now watching the four days of Dunkirk highlights; Thank god Carlton Kirby's not commentating on the Giro or I'd be watching the entire race with the sound off.


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## raindog (9 May 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Now watching the four days of Dunkirk highlights; Thank god Carlton Kirby's not commentating on the Giro or I'd be watching the entire race with the sound off.


After 2 days I couldn't stand any more, and watched the other stages in French. Is he on drugs or something? Poor Magnus B continually having to force laughter at his pathetic "joking" around.


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## brommers (9 May 2016)

The commentators were looking for a name for Kittel - the ice man, mr. cool, etc. Well, they're on the right lines!


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## Killiekevin (9 May 2016)

Am I being stupid in asking why there is a rest day on day 4 (especially when day 1 was a short tt) Don't rest days normally come after a week at least? Is this normal with the giro?


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## dragon72 (9 May 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> Am I being stupid in asking why there is a rest day on day 4 (especially when day 1 was a short tt) Don't rest days normally come after a week at least? Is this normal with the giro?


It's because of the long transition from Holland to Calabria.


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## Killiekevin (9 May 2016)

Thank you


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## Shadow (9 May 2016)

Many happy returns of the day to...

...Svein Tuft; who most unexpectdly and quite joyously because of it, was wearing the maglia rosa exactly two years ago. 
Nice to have a birthday on a GT rest day!


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## smutchin (9 May 2016)

Shadow said:


> Nice to have a birthday on a GT rest day!



It's not really a rest day though, is it? It's a transfer day, which I imagine is far from restful and not the ideal way to celebrate your birthday.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2016)

Shadow said:


> Many happy returns of the day to...
> 
> ...Svein Tuft; who most unexpectdly and quite joyously because of it, was wearing the maglia rosa exactly two years ago.
> Nice to have a birthday on a GT rest day!



The man with one of the most interesting and unusual back stories in pro-cycling: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/othersports/08cycling.html


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## smutchin (10 May 2016)

Replying here to avoid spoilers in the punditry thread...



rich p said:


> I've just tuned into the live coverage and realise my selections are more worthless than usual.
> There's an 18% hairpin climb at the end





Marmion said:


> It's a wee bit before the end, depends if the sprinters get over it with the peloton or if they unleash hell...



Kittel is already a minute and a half down with 45km still to go and the climb yet to come!


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## Hont (10 May 2016)

This is much more like it. The race on with 30+k to go.


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## smutchin (10 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Kittel is already a minute and a half down with 45km still to go and the climb yet to come!



Looks like it has all come back together with 20km to go. Still that little climb to come though...


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## rich p (10 May 2016)

He'll have to descend like a demon cos he's going to be dropped for sure


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## HF2300 (10 May 2016)

Really didn't think Ulissi was going to hold on there.


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## Hont (10 May 2016)

Dodgy Diego wins. Not sure he's in pink, though.

Edit Dumoulin back in pink.


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## mjr (10 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The man with one of the most interesting and unusual back stories in pro-cycling: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/othersports/08cycling.html


Login required


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## Flying_Monkey (10 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Login required



Really? I don't have an account and it works for me.


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## fimm (10 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Really? I don't have an account and it works for me.


And me.
I was just wondering if I'd signed up in some way at some point.


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## SWSteve (10 May 2016)

18% hairpin bend tore it up. I'm surprised how often they were willing to show Kittel sauntering along whilst Hesjedal was busy losing time ahead


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## Pro Tour Punditry (11 May 2016)

Happy 28th birthday to you
Happy 28th birthday to you
Happy 28th birthday my Beautiful Marcel
Happy 28th birthday to you


And a happy 35th birthday to Adam Hansen, the munter


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## Pro Tour Punditry (11 May 2016)

Just caught up the stage highlights, that was fun


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## SWSteve (11 May 2016)

It was a very good stage, unfortunately the hilights never seemed to comment on when the pair for AG2R were caught by the bunch, so I spent a while wondering where exactly they were...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (11 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It was a very good stage, unfortunately the hilights never seemed to comment on when the pair for AG2R were caught by the bunch, so I spent a while wondering where exactly they were...


The version I watched (Eurosport 11.40pm) showed the catch


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## 400bhp (11 May 2016)

Formolo and chaves up there. I'm looking forward to seeing these two light it up.


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## HF2300 (11 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It was a very good stage, unfortunately the hilights never seemed to comment on when the pair for AG2R were caught by the bunch, so I spent a while wondering where exactly they were...



The Eurosport live coverage was a bit confused as well.


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## rich p (11 May 2016)

Greipel won by a mile!


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## themosquitoking (11 May 2016)

He really read the end well getting on all the right wheels until he launched. Pure class.


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## 400bhp (11 May 2016)

How many more stages before Kittel bails?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (11 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> How many more stages before Kittel bails?


2, he'll be gone by stage 8 I reckon


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## rich p (11 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> How many more stages before Kittel bails?


Show pony! @Marmion


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## brommers (12 May 2016)

I think that today we'll see what the form is like of the GC contenders


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

I awoke this morning unable to haul myself out of my bed, no idea what is wrong but I feel like crap. I have just managed to get myself downstairs in time to see the start of live coverage of today's stage. Hopefully I can stay awake!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

The Giro wildcards can never be accused of not getting TV time


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## HF2300 (12 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I awoke this morning unable to haul myself out of my bed, no idea what is wrong but I feel like crap. I have just managed to get myself downstairs in time to see the start of live coverage of today's stage. Hopefully I can stay awake!



It's just shock at Kittel's collapse


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## rich p (12 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> The Giro wildcards can never be accused of not getting TV time


All I've got is a Fab C love-in. Boring as feck


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

rich p said:


> All I've got is a Fab C love-in. Boring as feck


It's the dullest programme EVER. 

Hope the heli can get back in the sky and give us live coverage. We'll know in about 6 minutes.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

Heli back, not sure why no moto pics. Strange.


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## Hont (12 May 2016)

The Giro must be the best advert for not going to Italy in May ever.


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## HF2300 (12 May 2016)

"A bit of false flat"

Someone's been taking Sherwen lessons.


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## rich p (12 May 2016)

This Giro hasn't taken off yet really, has it.
That Dutch start didn't help.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

I'm enjoying it


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## Dayvo (12 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I'm enjoying it



Of course you are: skiving off work...

Plenty of this, eh!


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## Crackle (12 May 2016)

This is dull stage so far.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Of course you are: skiving off work...
> 
> Plenty of this, eh!


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## rich p (12 May 2016)

I could keep up with the peloton today.


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## Dayvo (12 May 2016)

rich p said:


> I could keep up with the peloton today.



I'm picking you for my next Velogames fantasy team.


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## Crackle (12 May 2016)

Wellens is holding this gap.


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## rich p (12 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Wellens is holding this gap.


I n the bag innit


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## smutchin (12 May 2016)

Very pleased for Wellens - I like him but I've been starting to fear lately that he's the new Voeckler. 

Fantastic late attack by Dumoulin too. That's class.


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## smutchin (12 May 2016)

Nibali showing his lack of racing form there.


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## HF2300 (12 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Very pleased for Wellens - I like him but I've been starting to fear lately that he's the new Voeckler.
> 
> Fantastic late attack by Dumoulin too. That's class.



Yes, absolutely. Good to see Dumoulin taking it to them. I thought Wellens was really flagging at one point.

Not sure who this guy Grouse-Wig is though...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 May 2016)

Stage highlight for me


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## Flying_Monkey (12 May 2016)

I've been very impressed with Jungels and Fuglsang so far... I wonder if either or both can keep it up once it gets to the higher mountains?


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## Elybazza61 (12 May 2016)

Was rooting for Tim today;nice bike too,,


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## Stonechat (13 May 2016)

Tough luck on Moreno fractured collarbone


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 May 2016)

Bugger. Poor Beautiful Marcel.

Some effort from Greipel at the end, outstanding sprint.


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## mjr (13 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Bugger. Poor Beautiful Marcel.
> 
> Some effort from Greipel at the end, outstanding sprint.


Greipel responded with a grin, “For sure, Marcel is not ugly, but I think that I also don’t need to hide behind the wall.” (from http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/05/news/greipel-wins-races-not-popularity-contests_405398 )


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## SWSteve (13 May 2016)

Does Greipel have any teeth? Next time you see him, let me know if you see any teeth. I'm starting to think he doesn't...


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## mjr (14 May 2016)

Many of you probably already know this but I'm finding The Cycling Podcast is really adding to the analysis this giro, asking useful questions of Tom Dumoulin and interviewing some interesting people. Subscription URL is http://audioboo.fm/channels/1405050.rss and I can't find a working website.


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## SWSteve (14 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Many of you probably already know this but I'm finding The Cycling Podcast is really adding to the analysis this giro, asking useful questions of Tom Dumoulin and interviewing some interesting people. Subscription URL is http://audioboo.fm/channels/1405050.rss and I can't find a working website.




http://thecyclingpodcast.com


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## smutchin (14 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Does Greipel have any teeth? Next time you see him, let me know if you see any teeth. I'm starting to think he doesn't...



He does have teeth, but he takes them out for racing.


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## Dave Davenport (14 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> He does have teeth, but he takes them out for racing.


Marginal gains, they're all at it these days.


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## mjr (14 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> http://thecyclingpodcast.com


Which is a blank page to me, hence no working website.


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## HF2300 (14 May 2016)

Works for me, even with Adblock fully on. It's heavily Javascript though (everything inside the body tags); might that be an issue?


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## smutchin (14 May 2016)

Just seen Flecha's recce of the final climb - and descent... Crikey! Never mind the gravel on the ascent, those last few hairpins at the bottom of the descent look a bit 'technical'!


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## Crackle (14 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Just seen Flecha's recce of the final climb - and descent... Crikey! Never mind the gravel on the ascent, those last few hairpins at the bottom of the descent look a bit 'technical'!


You'd think it would be strung out by then, so hopefully, a bit easier to navigate.


----------



## rich p (14 May 2016)

That was a proper stage - Brambilla wins it now why didn't I pundit pick him?


----------



## mjr (14 May 2016)

Now Brambilla has as many GT stage wins as ejections?

Why are Flecha and House wearing such gaudy trousers every day? Did they lose a bet?


----------



## Berk on a Bike (14 May 2016)

Elia Viviani one of three riders DQ'd for being outside the time limit today. Whoops.


----------



## mjr (14 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Elia Viviani one of three riders DQ'd for being outside the time limit today. Whoops.


The other two being Iuri Filosi (Ita) Nippo - Vini Fantini and Boy Van Poppel (Ned) Trek-Segafredo according to cyclingnews. That trio came in at +55m26 when the limit was probably around +25m30 if the regulations are the same as the last copy I saw... so not even close! Did something bad happen?

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertoVigonesi/status/731513545117040640 says they were dropped in the fast-and-furious first 30km and never got back.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 May 2016)

Arghhh! I bottled it on my bet last night and changed from Brambilla to Moser. Nobbing nobber!


----------



## smutchin (14 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Why are Flecha and House wearing such gaudy trousers every day? Did they lose a bet?



House is a Posho, Flecha is a Continental. Flamboyant hosiery is to be expected.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (14 May 2016)

Etixx have announced this evening that Kittel has quit the race.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Etixx have announced this evening that Kittel has quit the race.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 May 2016)

Stage odds for tomorrow are crap, so time to bring out the ridiculous H2H accumulator...go all 10 of you! And boo to the other 10


----------



## 400bhp (14 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> 2, he'll be gone by stage 8 I reckon



You didn't bet on this as well. Nobber.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 May 2016)

That moment when you think "It was great to win but..."


----------



## SWSteve (15 May 2016)

Might be a daft question, but what happens to the sprint points that Kittel won? Does he take them with him when he leaves th race, or do the results get re-calculated points wise?


----------



## SWSteve (15 May 2016)

It is absolutely pissing down. People are going to have some filthy faces...


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

The points Kittel won vanish in a puff of pink smoke.


----------



## Crackle (15 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> That moment when you think "It was great to win but..."


It looks pretty wrong on the bike too.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Blimey, Nibali slower than Landa!


----------



## SWSteve (15 May 2016)

Zakarin down!


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Zakarin is having a stinker. Thought he had a strong chance of taking the race lead today but fate appears to be conspiring against him.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Disappointing from Uran.


----------



## Crackle (15 May 2016)

uran a stinker too, 40 odd at the last check. Oh, just in in 58th, that's poo.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2016)

This is an awful day, but didn't seem to matter to Roglic.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> This is an awful day, but didn't seem to matter to Roglic.



It wasn't raining when Roglic went out.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> It wasn't raining when Roglic went out.



Ah, I missed most of it...


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

It's mad weather out there. One minute it was dry, the next it was a biblical downpour. Seems to have stopped now but the roads look treacherous.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Bob Jungels has done exceptionally well considering he went out after the rain started.


----------



## smutchin (15 May 2016)

Zakarin down again! Looks like he wasn't concentrating, or was distracted, going into that corner.


----------



## SWSteve (15 May 2016)

Zakarin again!


----------



## Crackle (15 May 2016)

Zakarin has dissolved in the rain.


----------



## SWSteve (15 May 2016)

That last corner is treacherous! So many painted lines you have to cross, it must be horrible when it's like this


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 May 2016)

Looks like Brambilla keeps the jersey - great performance by him.


----------



## rich p (15 May 2016)

I note that the fellow in third place today has the same middle name as Contador...
Vegard Stake Laengen


----------



## 400bhp (15 May 2016)

Top 10 completely turned around.


----------



## smutchin (16 May 2016)

rich p said:


> the fellow in third place today...



You say that as if you've never heard of him before


----------



## SWSteve (16 May 2016)

Yet more proof Greipel has no teeth...

https://twitter.com/andregreipel/status/732154168543195136


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2016)




----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2016)

Cancellara has abandoned


----------



## HF2300 (16 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> House is a Posho, Flecha is a Continental. Flamboyant hosiery is to be expected.



Ah, one of those hot blooded Mediterranean types. Say no more, old bean.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (16 May 2016)

I was going to do a rest day, major contenders overall position list, but there's really no point because the Top 15 is essentially exactly that. There are really no major surprises in who is in the Top 15, with the possible exception of current leader Brambilla, who I don't think will last as leader very much longer. And even with the poor showing by riders like Uran and Zakarin in the TT yesterday, none of the top contenders, including both of them, are completely out of it.

1 Gianluca Brambilla (Ita) Etixx - Quick-Step 34:33:04 
2 Bob Jungels (Lux) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:00:01 
3 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 0:00:32 
4 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 0:00:51 
5 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:53 
6 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:55 
7 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Giant-Alpecin 0:00:58 
8 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa) Team Sky 0:01:18 
9 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:01:45 
10 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:01:51 
11 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:02:09 
12 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:28 
13 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-GreenEdge 0:02:31 
14 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Lampre - Merida 0:02:54 
15 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:02:56 

This is shaping up to be a very exciting and close Giro.


----------



## SWSteve (16 May 2016)

It was interesting to hear Dumoulin saying he's looking to lose time to the leaders, so he can get into a breakaway and get a stage win. How much of that is true, I don't know. But it's odd to hear someone say it publicly...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2016)

Katusha removes Tsatevich from the Giro following his drafting in the TT

http://www.teamkatusha.com/news/team-katusha-takes-alexey-tsatevich-out-giro-ditalia


----------



## Berk on a Bike (16 May 2016)

Seeing reports that Katusha have withdrawn Alexey Tsatevich following his blatant drafting during Sunday's TT. Race commissaires had already fined him and given him a hefty time penalty. Katusha felt it wasn't harsh enough and pulled him.

And @Marmion beat me to it


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 May 2016)

A 6min 48s time penalty to be exact. I wonder how they came up with such a precise figure.


----------



## rich p (16 May 2016)

Seems like an odd response from Team Evil Mark 2


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Seems like an odd response from Team Evil Mark 2


Not if they are trying to convince us that they are _NOT_ Team Evil Mark 2 ... I'm not falling for it! 

I saw that rider wheelsucking but didn't realise that he had been doing it for more than just a few seconds.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Seems like an odd response from Team Evil Mark 2


Trying to curry favour with UCI methinks, and he's a convenient sacrifice


----------



## 400bhp (16 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Not if they are trying to convince us that they are _NOT_ Team Evil Mark 2 ... I'm not falling for it!
> 
> I saw that rider wheelsucking but didn't realise that he had been doing it for more than just a few seconds.



It was utterly outrageous. Must have gone on for 15 minutes. Nobend


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> It was utterly outrageous. Must have gone on for 15 minutes. Nobend


Surely he had a radio? If the team management were really that concerned about it they could have ordered him to drop back!


----------



## 400bhp (16 May 2016)

Maybe his radio wasn't working or he wasn't listening. Maybe he didn't have a radio.

Maybe the team weren't watching the same footage.

That's all speculation. The rider knew what he was doing. It's up to him to stop it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 May 2016)

Is it not up to the commissaires?


----------



## ColinJ (16 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> Maybe his radio wasn't working or he wasn't listening. Maybe he didn't have a radio.
> 
> Maybe the team weren't watching the same footage.
> 
> That's all speculation. The rider knew what he was doing. It's up to him to stop it.


Yes, it was his responsibility and it is obvious that he was cheating.

I'm just making the point that it is ridiculous for the team management to act so appalled afterwards when they had the power to stop it at the time. Even if there was not a working radio, there definitely would have been a team car following with spare bikes/wheels etc. Somebody could have leaned out of the window of the car and screamed at him to drop back, or else!


----------



## 400bhp (16 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Yes, it was his responsibility and it is obvious that he was cheating.
> 
> I'm just making the point that it is ridiculous for the team management to act so appalled afterwards when they had the power to stop it at the time. Even if there was not a working radio, there definitely would have been a team car following with spare bikes/wheels etc. Somebody could have leaned out of the window of the car and screamed at him to drop back, or else!



No actually. The chap he was drafting had his car in front. At one point there was three of them.


----------



## Stonechat (16 May 2016)

Apologies if someone already mentioned it, but there's footage online of Landa totally overcooking a bend, being caught by a spectator, stayed upright, and carried straight on


----------



## Berk on a Bike (16 May 2016)

Stonechat said:


> Apologies if someone already mentioned it, but there's footage online of Landa totally overcooking a bend, being caught by a spectator, stayed upright, and carried straight on


----------



## ColinJ (17 May 2016)

Why DO people hold their phones/cameras that way! Do they have their computer screens and TVs turned through 90 degrees ...?


----------



## mjr (17 May 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Why DO people hold their phones/cameras that way! Do they have their computer screens and TVs turned through 90 degrees ...?


Most phones are slightly easier to operate that way up, it's the same way up that most pieces of paper are and most people are taller than they are wide. I don't understand people who take pictures/videos of people and leave loads of uninteresting frame on both sides. I'm OK with computer screens being landscape-y because I have two documents open side-by-side most of the time.


----------



## Archie (17 May 2016)

Just started my first Giro live update of the race - as today's stage should be an interesting one -to find out Landa is 6 minutes down.


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Crikey!

According to the feed on cyclingnews.com, he had said in a pre-race interview with Danish TV this morning that he was "looking to attack". Maybe something lost in translation...

Sounds like Astana are putting the hammer down at the front to ensure maximum hurt for him too.


----------



## SWSteve (17 May 2016)

Looks like he's 7 minutes down, majority of Sky back helping him chase back, would be surprised if they can make it back on this terrain


----------



## SWSteve (17 May 2016)

Looks like Landa is thumbing for a lift


----------



## Berk on a Bike (17 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Looks like Landa is thumbing for a lift


Tweets abound saying he's quit


----------



## Crackle (17 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Tweets abound saying he's quit


Sky confirming it. Illness.


----------



## Crackle (17 May 2016)

So Sky without a Giro leader yet again.


----------



## Dogtrousers (17 May 2016)

To lose one leader may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness


----------



## Hont (17 May 2016)

Might make the Tour team stronger though, eh?


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Well done, Ciccone, but what was going on between him and Pirazzi on the penultimate climb? Looked like a lively discussion about team orders - which Ciccone was studiously ignoring! And rightly so.

Interesting tactics by Pirazzi to take Cunego out of the race as well.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2016)

I had to miss the last 10k because of a meeting.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 May 2016)

The new Top 15 looks like this, and given Pirazzi's ride today and Landa dropping out, this perhaps brings the Bardiani rider into contention, although we are perhaps looking at a Top 13 group of favourites now...

1 Bob Jungels (Lux) Etixx - Quick-Step 40:19:52 
2 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 0:00:26 
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:50 
4 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 
5 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:52 
6 Gianluca Brambilla (Ita) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:01:11 
7 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:01:44 
8 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:01:46 
9 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:02:08 
10 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-GreenEdge 0:02:26 
11 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:27 
12 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Lampre - Merida 0:02:53 
13 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:02:55 
14 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Trek-Segafredo 0:03:39 
15 Stefano Pirazzi (Ita) Bardiani CSF 0:04:10 

Sky now has a big problem. Their two highest placed riders are:

26 Nicolas Roche (Irl) Team Sky 0:09:00 
30 Sebastian Henao (Col) Team Sky 0:11:57

Roche could in other circumstances have been considered a contender but he's already lost a lot riding in support of Landa. Both could go for stages, but they might be still considered close enough to the top that they might not be allowed to get away. Perhaps the younger Henao has more chance of a stage on this basis than Roche. He's well up in the young riders competition, but the leader of that is Jungels, who isn't looking like he's going to lose it any time soon. And they are nowhere in the Points or the Mountains competition (although a couple of days in the high mountains could change the latter). Unlikely though. Sky look screwed.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sky look screwed.


Classics team


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Classics team



Sky could learn a thing or two about riding GTs from Etixx.


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Just been looking at stage 11 to make my picks for the punditry. What damn fool came up with this madness? 197km of very flat then a couple of nasty climbs before a fast descent and a very flat, very straight final kilometre on a wide, well-surfaced road. 

One for the puncheurs, perhaps, but it'll be interesting to see if any of the sprinters can stay with the pack over the lumpy bits - and then what they have left in the legs...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Just been looking at stage 11 to make my picks for the punditry. What damn fool came up with this madness? 197km of very flat then a couple of nasty climbs before a fast descent and a very flat, very straight final kilometre on a wide, well-surfaced road.
> 
> One for the puncheurs, perhaps, but it'll be interesting to see if any of the sprinters can stay with the pack over the lumpy bits - and then what they have left in the legs...


I also note that all 8 remaining FDJ riders finished in the last group today, 37 minutes down on the stage winner. Saving themselves to get Demare to the line in first place tomorrow?


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Also just noticed another withdrawal from the race today, who didn't get quite so much coverage as Landa: Cancellara


----------



## smutchin (17 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Saving themselves to get Demare to the line in first place tomorrow?



Good spot. I forgot Demare was in the race, dammit. But I've settled on my picks now, so I won't change them again.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Good spot. I forgot Demare was in the race, dammit. But I've settled on my picks now, so I won't change them again.


I doubt there will be a flood of picks for Demare as a result of the above observation; if there is then I'm claiming half the points


----------



## Crackle (17 May 2016)

Here's the Inner Rings wee summary. Sounds like the sprint teams could get back on after the hill if they get a wiggle on. I'm inclined to agree that it looks a boring old day. Pick a stream about 3.30 I think.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (17 May 2016)

Inrng is a great writer - "you'll need your theodolite..."


----------



## Berk on a Bike (17 May 2016)

Just tried viewing ProCyclingStats and got this...






Who mounts a DDoS on a cycling stats website? Divs.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Just tried viewing ProCyclingStats and got this...
> 
> View attachment 128859
> 
> ...


I stopped using PCS a while ago in favour of http://firstcycling.com/ which I find much easier to use and more useful.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (17 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I stopped using PCS a while ago in favour of http://firstcycling.com/ which I find much easier to use and more useful.


Ahhh I was trying to remember that website! I remembered you'd posted something from it a while back.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Ahhh I was trying to remember that website! I remembered you'd posted something from it a while back.


Worth a follow on twitter


----------



## Berk on a Bike (17 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Worth a follow on twitter


Done


----------



## Crackle (17 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I stopped using PCS a while ago in favour of http://firstcycling.com/ which I find much easier to use and more useful.


It's a bit glary, that'll take some getting used to but easier to find the different race categories


----------



## Berk on a Bike (18 May 2016)

Dumoulin abandons due to saddle sores.


----------



## Stonechat (18 May 2016)

Wow, another one goes


----------



## Crackle (18 May 2016)

This is a good end to the stage. All kicking off now.


----------



## Milkfloat (18 May 2016)

Very enjoyable stage today - I thought it was going to be boring.


----------



## smutchin (18 May 2016)

Well, that was far more exciting than it deserved to be. Chapeau, Jungels!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 May 2016)

This is an excellent Giro.
Made better today by Ulissi winning and me clawing back all the money I had lost to Mr Bet365, and then a nice wee H2H double taking me into profit


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 May 2016)

Maybe Sky were listening to me*, because Roche lost 10 minutes today, which may be a cunning strategy which will allow himself to go for a breakaway stage win without being chased down... either that or he's in trouble

*Or more likely Dumoulin, who suggested that he might do the same thing.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Maybe Sky were listening to me*, because Roche lost 10 minutes today, which may be a cunning strategy which will allow himself to go for a breakaway stage win without being chased down... either that or he's in trouble
> 
> *Or more likely Dumoulin, who suggested that he might do the same thing.


I'm fairly sure it would have been you.


----------



## smutchin (18 May 2016)

Shadow said:


> Many happy returns of the day to...
> 
> ...Svein Tuft; who most unexpectdly and quite joyously because of it, was wearing the maglia rosa exactly two years ago.
> Nice to have a birthday on a GT rest day!





Flying_Monkey said:


> The man with one of the most interesting and unusual back stories in pro-cycling: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/sports/othersports/08cycling.html



I've been writing a feature today on "Unsung heroes of the Tour"* and you'll be pleased to know that I included Svein Tuft in it. Actually, I don't know if "unsung heroes" is really the best title for the piece but they're all riders who have interesting stories and made an impact on the Tour without actually winning the damn thing five times or whatever. So for example there's also Eugene Christophe (but not Lucien Petit-Breton), and Luis Herrera (but not Hinault).

(*yes, I know we're still watching the Giro but publishing deadlines and all that)


----------



## rich p (18 May 2016)

It's warming up innit. 
Sprint fest tomorrow and then it gets tougher. I'm pleased to see that Nibali hasn't suddenly found mega-form.
Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...


----------



## smutchin (18 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...



Kim Kirchen?


----------



## Dayvo (18 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...



Simone Weis and Jimmy Martin?


----------



## Crackle (18 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...


I'm glad you told me that. I thought he was a yank.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 May 2016)

I see all the FDJ team finished together at the (almost) rear again today, after working hard for Demare to pick up some sprint points earlier in the race. I have a good feeling about tomorrow's stage for him; it's also forecast for thunderstorms which would not suit Greipel on a fairly tight finish. Probably more suited to Demare, Modolo and, dare I say it, Ewan.

Get your money of Greipel, Nizzolo and Hofland


----------



## 400bhp (18 May 2016)

The power of Jungels today. Amador was struggling to stay with him on the flat.

Great racing


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 May 2016)

It's not all plain sailing today for the sprinters, just look at that incline at about 88km...


----------



## brommers (19 May 2016)

With Greipel pulling out after this stage, expect to see the points contenders contesting the intermediate sprints - all the main sprinters and that man Ulissi! Stage may be more exciting than it appears on paper.


----------



## 400bhp (19 May 2016)

brommers said:


> With Greipel pulling out after this stage



Huh??


----------



## HF2300 (19 May 2016)

brommers said:


> With Greipel pulling out after this stage...



I thought he was talking about going for the points jersey - or at least, wasn't discounting the possibility? Or am I last with the news as usual?


----------



## beastie (19 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...



But does he have a brother?


----------



## biking_fox (19 May 2016)

When they talk about riders "signing on" for a stage I didn't realise until today's cyclingnews coverage, that they literally mean signing on with a pen on a piece of paper. That must take ages for everyone to file through. How antiquated.


----------



## Paulus (19 May 2016)

It's a bit of a show for the fans who can get close enough to see the riders, and the team sponsors to get a bit of air time.


----------



## HF2300 (19 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> It's not all plain sailing today for the sprinters, just look at that incline at about 88km...



Hatch just said there wasn't a climb in sight - he obviously hasn't had his theodolite out...

(fnaar)


----------



## brommers (19 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> Huh??



Confirmed on cyclingweekly giro text update about 40 mins ago. I heard about this a day or two ago.
'With Greipel set to depart after today's stage the lead of the points competition is of course up for grabs'


----------



## Dayvo (19 May 2016)

brommers said:


> With Greipel pulling out after this stage...



'Kin 'ell! Four of my riders have jumped ship: never anticipated a mutiny on my team. Nobbers.


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I see all the FDJ team finished together at the (almost) rear again today, after working hard for Demare to pick up some sprint points earlier in the race.



Apparently, Demare was in a crash yesterday, and that's why he wasn't involved at the finish. They were saying on the telly just now that he was one of several riders who visited the X-ray wagon after the race. He started today but seemed to be struggling at the intermediate sprint a few minutes ago, so it looks a lot like he's another who won't be troubling the timekeepers for much longer.


----------



## BrumJim (19 May 2016)

Wow. So flat I would expect to find the Maglia Azzurra in the Autobus!


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2016)

BrumJim said:


> Wow. So flat I would expect to find the Maglia Azzurra in the Autobus!



The overhead view is more interesting - especially the last 8km, which look like a crit circuit (and indeed they will be doing two laps of it).

The weather is adding to the fun - there's talk of stopping the clock on the first passage over the finish line, just so the GC boys don't have to get involved in the sprint shenanigans.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> The weather is adding to the fun - there's talk of stopping the clock on the first passage over the finish line, just so the GC boys don't have to get involved in the sprint shenanigans.



That's been officially announced now, even though the weather has cleared up and it's dry at the finish.


----------



## Dayvo (19 May 2016)

The geezer ringing the last lap bell looked like RichP!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Apparently, Demare was in a crash yesterday, and that's why he wasn't involved at the finish.


Spotted that this morning, after I had chucked money on him to beat Hofland in H2H. Arsebisquits! Back to being skint


----------



## rich p (19 May 2016)

Dayvo said:


> The geezer ringing the last lap bell looked like RichP!


a handsome devil?


----------



## smutchin (19 May 2016)

Textbook stuff from Lotto-Soudal.

Ewan was slightly unlucky - did everything right, latched on to Greipel's wheel perfectly as they exited the final bend, but then it looked like he had to stop pedalling for a moment because he was boxed in against the barrier. I don't think he would have got past Greipel anyway, but he did better than Modolo and Nizzolo, who were both already a bike length behind by the time they exited the bend.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Textbook stuff from Lotto-Soudal.


I got home with about 25km to go, saw the situation with Lotto Soudal on the front and thought "Should have just stuck my money on Greipel at evens..."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (19 May 2016)

He's cranked it up to full nae teeth level


----------



## Crackle (19 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> He's cranked it up to full nae teeth level


He really has left them in a glass on his night table.


----------



## 400bhp (19 May 2016)

beastie said:


> But does he have a brother?



Yes. Forrest.

Geddit


----------



## SWSteve (19 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> He's cranked it up to full nae teeth level




The lack of teeth cannot be unseen. If we get sight of his pearly whites during the tour, Smutch will need to include his dentist in the unsung heroes feature


----------



## SWSteve (19 May 2016)

> Tried to do sth nice for my teeth+bought this healthy toothpaste in a bio shop.Turned out it is already a fight am +pm to use it.#nottasty


https://twitter.com/andregreipel/status/619409604473155584


----------



## Flying_Monkey (19 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Ewan was slightly unlucky - did everything right, latched on to Greipel's wheel perfectly as they exited the final bend, but then it looked like he had to stop pedalling for a moment because he was boxed in against the barrier. I don't think he would have got past Greipel anyway, but he did better than Modolo and Nizzolo, who were both already a bike length behind by the time they exited the bend.



I'd say it was a touch of inexperience from Ewan. He chose the wrong side to go past Greipel, I guess because he banked on Greipel not expecting him to be there. But Greipel had made sure that he didn't leave enough space by the barriers and stayed exactly on his line. That's experience. So by the time Ewan realised that he wasn't going to get by on that side, it was too late...


----------



## 400bhp (20 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'd say it was a touch of inexperience from Ewan. He chose the wrong side to go past Greipel, I guess because he banked on Greipel not expecting him to be there. But Greipel had made sure that he didn't leave enough space by the barriers and stayed exactly on his line. That's experience. So by the time Ewan realised that he wasn't going to get by on that side, it was too late...



I like Greipel more and more. Tactically very astute.

So, why have they pulled him from the Giro? Is the red jersey not coveted any more?


----------



## brommers (20 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Bob Jungels must be the best Luxembourger cyclist since, oooh, I dunno...



Schleck brothers


----------



## smutchin (20 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> So, why have they pulled him from the Giro? Is the red jersey not coveted any more?



He discussed this in his post-race interview, said he still has a long season ahead and his main target is the Worlds in October so he wants to avoid the risk of burning out. 

The next few stages would just be pure punishment for him and there's no guarantee he'd last to the final stage anyway. Three stage wins isn't a bad haul. I think he can be happy with how the Giro has gone for him. 

I imagine he'll pull out of the Tour early as well.


----------



## Crackle (20 May 2016)

There's a discussion to be had about pulling out like that. It's not new but it's becoming far more prevalent and I think it's a shame as it diminishes the points competition. There was also talk of Ewan pulling out but he's in with a shout at the points jersey now. The counter argument is that the parcours is less and less suited to sprinters making it to the end, always one of the criticisms of the Giro.


----------



## smutchin (20 May 2016)

Inrng is, as ever, worth reading on the subject of Greipel's withdrawal:
http://inrng.com/2016/05/quit-when-youre-winning/

Surprised he doesn't mention Cipollini or Petacchi though.


----------



## Crackle (20 May 2016)

Shame Thor retired, he'd be a banker for staying.


----------



## smutchin (20 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Shame Thor retired, he'd be a banker for staying.



I was just thinking much the same thing! 

Sagan is always good value for his points jerseys but I doubt we'll ever see him making a solo break in a mountain stage like Thor.


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> There's a discussion to be had about pulling out like that. It's not new but it's becoming far more prevalent and I think it's a shame as it diminishes the points competition. There was also talk of Ewan pulling out but he's in with a shout at the points jersey now. The counter argument is that the parcours is less and less suited to sprinters making it to the end, always one of the criticisms of the Giro.


My impression has been that the Giro (and the Vuelta) points comps are much less "sprinters competitions" than the TdF, witness Cav being edged out by ... er ... I've forgotten who in ... 2012 or something like that. 

The green jersey in the TdF is, of course traditionally always won by a rider with a name that rhymes with Neter Nagan.

(Note, any comment I make about racing is likely to be cobblers. This is no exception).


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 May 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> (Note, any comment I make about racing is likely to be cobblers. This is no exception).


You'll fit in well here


----------



## Crackle (20 May 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> My impression has been that the Giro (and the Vuelta) points comps are much less "sprinters competitions" than the TdF, witness Cav being edged out by ... er ... I've forgotten who in ... 2012 or something like that.
> 
> The green jersey in the TdF is, of course traditionally always won by a rider with a name that rhymes with Neter Nagan.
> 
> (Note, any comment I make about racing is likely to be cobblers. This is no exception).


Most of the GT's, the TdF especially, have changed the sprinters competition around according to the riders of the day, it's always been something of a moveable feast, there just seem to be a lot more specialist sprinters around today. Less Sagans, more Kittels.


----------



## mjr (20 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> He's cranked it up to full nae teeth level


Crikey, he's having a bad reaction to the pink giro-branded gels, isn't he?


----------



## brommers (20 May 2016)

Despite the stage being 170km the start and finish towns are only 20 odd km apart. I suppose they would be staying at the same gaffes as yesterday.
Beat that for a boring post


----------



## HF2300 (20 May 2016)

brommers said:


> ...Beat that for a boring post



Tour of California.

Done.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2016)

This is great today... much less conservative than I was expecting.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2016)

And I'd actually considered all of Visconti, Nieve and Dombrowski for my pundit picks yesterday and went for Scarponi, Roche and Nibali instead...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2016)

Excellent stage. Good win for Nieve. Not sure what Visconti was doing - whether Movistar really thought he could take Nieve or whether he was just ignoring team orders (as usual). Amador did really well to get back on the chasing group on the descent to take the pink, although it's a shame for Jungels.


----------



## smutchin (20 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> And I'd actually considered all of Visconti, Nieve and Dombrowski for my pundit picks yesterday and went for Scarponi, Roche and Nibali instead...



I thought about Scarponi but ultimately didn't think the break would succeed. Surprised so many people picked Roche though - Nieve and Henao always looked more likely for this stage, surely?

Anyway, great ride by Nieve - played it perfectly.


----------



## BSRU (20 May 2016)

Can someone inform the TV director that this is not the 1970's


----------



## Crackle (20 May 2016)

I saw a tweet that the Giro Mascot would not go to France and didn't really take it seriously but apparently, it's no joke

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/20/giro-d-italia-mascot-wolf-banned-farmers


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> I saw a tweet that the Giro Mascot would not go to France and didn't really take it seriously but apparently, it's no joke
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/20/giro-d-italia-mascot-wolf-banned-farmers


You don't have to be a mentalist to be a French farmer, but it helps...


----------



## 400bhp (20 May 2016)

How good is Amador at going downhill. There were points when Nibali went on the front on the drop to the last climb to slow things down.

But...he did get dropped twice on uphills, as did Zacharin.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> But...he did get dropped twice on uphills, as did Zacharin.


The sugar substitute.


----------



## brommers (20 May 2016)

BSRU said:


> Can someone inform the TV director that this is not the 1970's



You're lost me there


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2016)

Okay, here's the contenders after that first day in the mountains. I would say that we've now realistically got a fight between 10 riders, because neither #10 Fuglsang nor #11 Brambilla nor #13 Visconti are going to be allowed to actually go for the overall by their teams.

1 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 54:05:50
2 Bob Jungels (Lux) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:00:26
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:41
4 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:43
5 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 
6 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:01:37
7 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:02:01
8 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-GreenEdge 0:02:19
9 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:02:48
12 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:37 

I think Amador, Jungels, and Uran are the most vulnerable to losing more time tomorrow and in the following days because they are more of the steady power climber type and can be caught out by sudden attacks. Just like Steps, 5,6,7,8 is where it's all likely to kick off, because all of those riders seem to be waiting for the opportunity to attack. Pozzovivo too. Nibali is really in the best position but he's going to have to watch out.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> neither #10 Fuglsang nor #11 Fuglsang


#11 Brambilla


----------



## 400bhp (20 May 2016)

It feels like Nibali is going to do one big stage as something intuitively tells me he isn't on top form and I believe he's been riding defensively.

I'd really like to see Pozzivivo get up there as he was really unlucky losing time the other day.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (20 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> #11 Brambilla



Corrected.


----------



## 400bhp (20 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> #11 Brambilla



I'm now officially a fan. Real team player.


----------



## mjr (20 May 2016)

brommers said:


> You're lost me there


It might depend whether @BSRU was watching the Italian feed or the World feed. The Italian one has an odd habit of showing old cycling films during the stage, with the race continuing in a small picture alongside.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Okay, here's the contenders after that first day in the mountains. I would say that we've now realistically got a fight between 10 riders, because neither #10 Fuglsang nor #11 Brambilla nor #13 Visconti are going to be allowed to actually go for the overall by their teams.
> 
> 1 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 54:05:50
> 2 Bob Jungels (Lux) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:00:26
> ...



I think that Kruijswijk is the real "unknown" - would love to see him take on Nibali.


----------



## BSRU (21 May 2016)

brommers said:


> You're lost me there


He has a habit of breaking away from showing the cycling to show women, one example showing four women in four different coloured t-shirts walking slowly across the finish line, with close ups on each one. 

It's the same as Italian football coverage, the directors randomly showing images of a young ladies in the crowd they like the look of.


----------



## SWSteve (21 May 2016)

70 kilometres of continuous climbing to start the day. That's going to get the legs pumping. And then there are the sawtooth sections to follow!


----------



## SWSteve (21 May 2016)

DeMare pulls out. Bizarre as to why he started considering the climbing


----------



## rich p (21 May 2016)

I cycled the Sella round once on my hols. I'll tweet them a few tips.


----------



## brommers (21 May 2016)

Who is the best climber of the sprinters that are left?


----------



## rich p (21 May 2016)

brommers said:


> Who is the best climber of the sprinters that are left?


I was about to say that Demare won the MSR but he's just abandoned!


----------



## brommers (21 May 2016)

Clever race coverage - they've just missed the intermediate sprint!


----------



## brommers (21 May 2016)

rich p said:


> I was about to say that Demare won the MSR but he's just abandoned!


That was one of the reasons I prompted the question


----------



## rich p (21 May 2016)

ValvPiti dropped


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2016)

rich p said:


> ValvPiti dropped


Yep, it's exploding all over the place. Great stage.


----------



## fossyant (21 May 2016)

Nibbles off the pace


----------



## rich p (21 May 2016)

I'm glad the shark of Messina is struggling


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2016)

Kruijswijk and Chaves easing away.


----------



## fossyant (21 May 2016)

Northern Italy is stunning !!


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2016)

Poor Atapuma, caught with 2k left.


----------



## mjr (21 May 2016)

BSRU said:


> He has a habit of breaking away from showing the cycling to show women, one example showing four women in four different coloured t-shirts walking slowly across the finish line, with close ups on each one.


Isn't that more the fault of the four jersey sponsors and the race organisers including that walk of shame in the sponsorship package?


----------



## rich p (21 May 2016)

Great stage. It's a brilliantly unpredictable race


----------



## beastie (21 May 2016)

Well I enjoyed that stage. Amazing scenery. Chavez and kruijswijk looked good. Nibali fought hard and is still in touch and Valv Piti had a bad day. 
Poor Atapuma did a great ride. 

I thought Chavez looked the strongest uphill, is he favourite for the TT? Nibali could well pay for the long solo effort tomorrow.


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Poor Atapuma, caught with 2k left.



Poor me - I was watching on my phone and the battery died with 5km left. Nuts!


----------



## Crackle (21 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Poor me - I was watching on my phone and the battery died with 5km left. Nuts!


Not quite as unlucky as Atapuma


----------



## smutchin (21 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Not quite as unlucky as Atapuma



Are you joking? I was gutted!


----------



## HF2300 (21 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Poor me - I was watching on my phone and the battery died with 5km left. Nuts!



Missed the lot, so you didn't do too badly. Sounds like a good stage. As @rich p says, it's all brilliantly unpredictable so far.


----------



## rliu (21 May 2016)

Saw this on Cycling Weekly regarding Chaves' crash in 2013 -
_
In the Trofeo Laigueglia, he crashed in a corner and slid to a stop wrapped around a sign post. He had trauma to the head, blood in his lungs, a fractured jaw, broken ribs, collarbone, inner ear… but the worst was that his axillary nerve ripped apart completely and the suprascapular nerve partially._

Chapeau to him for coming back so strongly from what sounded a horrific crash


----------



## 400bhp (22 May 2016)

A new world order eh. Chaves and Kruijswik. 

I was looking at their stats. Kruijswik is reported to be 64 kgs. Chaves is 54 kgs

Can Chaves take the mountain TT today? I hope so.


----------



## HF2300 (22 May 2016)

Did Nibali look badly dropped on the last climb, or just minimising losses while saving energy?


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> A new world order eh. Chaves and Kruijswik.
> 
> I was looking at their stats. Kruijswik is reported to be 64 kgs. Chaves is 54 kgs
> 
> Can Chaves take the mountain TT today? I hope so.


Kruijswijck was a surprise. I thought he was heavier just from looking at him as he's quite broad shouldered.


----------



## brommers (22 May 2016)

Start times stage 15. See attachment


----------



## mjr (22 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Did Nibali look badly dropped on the last climb, or just minimising losses while saving energy?


Looked badly dropped to me but then I think he often looks to be riding badly except when he goes off on a flamboyant attack. These are strange times: have we ever had so many champions who look uncomfortable and un-fluid on their bikes?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 May 2016)

Just spotted that Demare has abandoned - citing 3 days of intestinal problems


----------



## beastie (22 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Looked badly dropped to me but then I think he often looks to be riding badly except when he goes off on a flamboyant attack. These are strange times: have we ever had so many champions who look uncomfortable and un-fluid on their bikes?


I thought it was an excellent ride by Nibali. 35 km solo and he held the gap at 30 ish seconds throughout. He is less than a minute behind pink and he definitely did not lose the Giro yesterday. Poor Valverde........


----------



## brommers (22 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just spotted that Demare has abandoned - citing 3 days of intestinal problems


He dropped out early in yesterday's stage


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 May 2016)

brommers said:


> He dropped out early in yesterday's stage


Ah right, cheers. I didn't see much of the cycling yesterday due to watching Hibs slaughter Rangers in the Scottish Cup Final and by the time I watched the highlights I'd had a few beers and didn't pay attention to DNS and DNF list. 

I suppose I'd better go and do that now!


----------



## HF2300 (22 May 2016)

beastie said:


> I thought it was an excellent ride by Nibali. 35 km solo and he held the gap at 30 ish seconds throughout. He is less than a minute behind pink and he definitely did not lose the Giro yesterday. Poor Valverde........



Well, my feeling was he might have been doing what it took to stay in touch without wiping himself out, but I didn't watch the coverage so I'm just going from having read a race summary.


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2016)

beastie said:


> I thought it was an excellent ride by Nibali. 35 km solo and he held the gap at 30 ish seconds throughout. He is less than a minute behind pink and he definitely did not lose the Giro yesterday. Poor Valverde........


I thought the same. He hauled it back some on the descent and then held it on the final climb, by himself, no help.


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 May 2016)

fossyant said:


> Northern Italy is stunning !!


It looked fantastic didn't it, and we'll be riding through that bit this August


----------



## smutchin (22 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Did Nibali look badly dropped on the last climb, or just minimising losses while saving energy?



I think he has looked reassuringly human so far in this Giro - his performance has reflected his lack of form coming into the race, unlike previous years...


----------



## PpPete (22 May 2016)

Those two Russians had motors?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2016)

PpPete said:


> Those two Russians had motors?



The cyclingnews live feed called them "simply incredible times", and I tend to agree.


----------



## mjr (22 May 2016)

Nibali should have ridden an Italian bike like Kruijswijk


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2016)

Foliforov did seem genuinely delighted at the end though, so I don't know...

Nibali just lost the Giro there - it's now Kruijswijk's unless Chaves can pull off another top performance in the final mountain stages.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 May 2016)

Well, that really sorted things out. 

The situation now is really that there's only 12 riders within 8 1/2 minutes of the lead, and after that there's a huge gap down to over 17 minutes.

But really, its more like four groups: 

The outright leader:

1 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 60:41:22 

Then 3 riders who could, given one superb rider on one of the final mountain stagees, get up to challenge for the lead, but otherwise are fighting for podium places:

2 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-GreenEdge 0:02:12 
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:02:51 
4 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:03:29 

Then, another 3 riders who could still get onto the podium with a particularly good day, but really are looking at topping the minor places:

5 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:04:38 
6 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:04:40 
7 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 0:05:27 

And finally, 5 riders fighting for the last three places in the Top 10:

8 Bob Jungels (Lux) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:07:14 
9 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Dimension Data 0:07:37 
10 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:07:55 
11 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:08:12 
12 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:08:19


----------



## smutchin (22 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The cyclingnews live feed called them "simply incredible times", and I tend to agree.



I expect they're loving today's result over at the Clinic. 

Foliforov won an uphill TT at the Sochi GP last year, with Firsanov in 5th place, 1.28 down, but that was hardly the same calibre of competition. But I could believe that he's been keeping his powder dry and targeting this stage. 

We'll see.


----------



## smutchin (22 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> The outright leader:
> 
> 1 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 60:41:22
> 
> Then 3 riders who could, given one superb rider on one of the final mountain stagees, get up to challenge for the lead, but otherwise are fighting for podium places:



I think Kruijswijk has this in the bag now. He has enough of a lead that he can afford to ride defensively so Chaves will have to do something special to overhaul him. 

Nibali doesn't look strong enough to beat either of those two in the mountains, and Valverde doesn't look as strong as Nibali. 

But then again, it only takes Kruijswijk to have one bad day to blow this race wide open again, and there are some tough stages still to come...

The podium will surely be three of those four though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, that really sorted things out.
> 
> The situation now is really that there's only 12 riders within 8 1/2 minutes of the lead, and after that there's a huge gap down to over 17 minutes.
> 
> ...



I'm looking forward to the final week, could be one of the best week's racing for a long while in a GT. 
The lone Kruijswijk trying to fend off everyone biting at his heels.


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2016)

The rest day can do funny things and there's at least three full on stages in the mtns to come, provided they've cleared one of the passes but it does look like Kruisjwijck, hajs gojt thijs mostljy in the bajg.

I'll reserve opinion on the two Gazprom riders but the Giro or the Vuelta wouldn't be complete without the odd 'surprise' winner.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> The rest day can do funny things and there's at least three full on stages in the mtns to come, provided they've cleared one of the passes but it does look like Kruisjwijck, hajs gojt thijs mostljy in the bajg.


I am now an expert at spelling his name without having to work it out after a rise in the number of pundit selections he has attracted.


----------



## Crackle (22 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I am now an expert at spelling his name without having to work it out after a rise in the number of pundit selections he has attracted.


I'm not but I'm getting closer now Nevehadadoofus on the other hand.....


----------



## Dayvo (22 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I am now an expert at spelling his name without having to work it out after a rise in the number of pundit selections he has attracted.



Can you pronounce his name, though, without coughing up a throatful of phlegm?


----------



## SWSteve (22 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Well, my feeling was he might have been doing what it took to stay in touch without wiping himself out, but I didn't watch the coverage so I'm just going from having read a race summary.



I was of similar opinion, the gap at the end wasn't the widest it had been, and he was putting time into the Valverede group, so he can't have been too slow


----------



## HF2300 (22 May 2016)

Although I did think he might have been saving it for today, but 24th and 2 mins down on Kruiswijk today probably says that was all he had yesterday.

It probably is Kruiswijk's to lose now, but with a bunch of tough stages this week and the chasing group only 2 - 3 minutes back, I can't help feeling 'in the bag' might still be overstating it.


----------



## rich p (22 May 2016)

Kruijswjiicjkjjs to lose now.
Although, many a slip twixt cjup and ljip...


----------



## 400bhp (22 May 2016)

Don't forget the strength of Astana, especially in the mountains. They could still take this for Nibali.

Some idiot spectators about today


----------



## rich p (23 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> Don't forget the strength of Astana, especially in the mountains. They could still take this for Nibali.
> 
> Some idiot spectators about today


They don't seem as insanely strong as last year though but Kruijswijk and Chavez do look fairly isolated.


----------



## SWSteve (23 May 2016)

Listening to The Cycli Podcast, it would appeR Kruijwiijjjjk and Chaves decided to attack together, knowing they would do better than if they went alone. 
They may be isolated in terms of team mates, but with ones f them taking the stage win, and the other the pink jersey, there must have been some link between them. It'll be interesting to see how the high mountains work out for Movistar who seemed a step behind on Saturday.


----------



## smutchin (23 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It'll be interesting to see how the high mountains work out for Movistar who seemed a step behind on Saturday.



Can't see them coming back to win the race. For a few years now, Valverde hasn't been as strong in the big mountains as he used to be - you may speculate on the reasons for this. And Amador looks spent - the TT course yesterday should have been perfect for him but he had a shocker.


----------



## SWSteve (23 May 2016)

I've just flicked through the results from yesterday, not much was said about it yesterday, but Nibali lost 2 minutes. 

Can we take bets on whether this result stands the tests of time?


----------



## smutchin (23 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Can we take bets on whether this result stands the tests of time?



I have no confidence in the results of the two Gazprom riders. 

Kruijswijk and Chaves look plausible. They've been riding very cannily, just following the leaders rather than going on the attack themselves - until Saturday... 

You'd expect Nibali to be up there with them if he were at his best, but he clearly isn't at his best. He also lost time yesterday due to a mechanical that necessitated a bike change.

Fark knows what has happened to Uran.


----------



## Crackle (23 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Fark knows what has happened to Uran


Well his TTing has gone to hell in a handcart this year. he always gets better in the third week, so I'd expect him to force his way into the top ten but on this form, who knows.


----------



## Dogtrousers (23 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Fark knows what has happened to Uran.



Maybe I'm clairvoyant. ...



Dogtrousers said:


> I normally stay out of pundit discussions, on the grounds that I am clueless. However, I would note that on the couple of occasions that Uran has met the random inclusion criteria for one of my fantasy teams he has started off mediocre, and then become pants.


----------



## 400bhp (23 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Fark knows what has happened to Uran.



I think he actually rode up the mountain twice by mistake yesterday.


----------



## brommers (23 May 2016)

5


smutchin said:


> You'd expect Nibali to be up there with them if he were at his best, but he clearly isn't at his best. He also lost time yesterday due to a mechanical that necessitated a bike change.
> .


He was already treading water when he had the problem. He probably lost about 15 seconds. You could argue that he lost momentum - but he didn't have much anyway!


----------



## smutchin (23 May 2016)

True that.


----------



## Hont (23 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Fark knows what has happened to Uran.


According to Jonathan Vaughters he has bronchitis.


----------



## Hont (23 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I've just flicked through the results from yesterday, not much was said about it yesterday, but Nibali lost 2 minutes.
> 
> Can we take bets on whether this result stands the tests of time?


I think Nibali mistimed his "recovery". He looked very strong on Stage 13 when the GC favourites all came in together and there were no time gaps to benefit from.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (23 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Kruijswjiicjkjjs to lose now.
> Although, many a slip twixt cjup and ljip...


yes he may 'pull a porte' and have a bad day


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Astana and Movistar are giving Kruijswijk a working over


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Might I just say that after years of criticising David Lopez's anonymity, in support of his GC team principal, he has been very active and visible in this race.
Albeit, to no great purpose and he hasn't got a team leader.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (24 May 2016)

Following on twitter stage 16 sounds completely mad so far. Big names in the break but Chaves struggling?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2016)

De La Cruz didn't start (fever)... that's one of my pundit picks for the day gone already!


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2016)

They are 15 or 20 minutes ahead of schedule so far. Just talking about how this could have a big impact on elimination times.


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

BSRU said:


> He has a habit of breaking away from showing the cycling to show women, one example showing four women in four different coloured t-shirts walking slowly across the finish line, with close ups on each one.


And actually, that's probably not the TV channel's fault. After all, Italian GT coverage is anchored by a great female regular presenter, which is something I've not noticed UK, USA, French or German coverage doing yet... in fact, apart from occasional guest women on UK coverage, I think they're all- male presentation teams.

Anyway, I'm lucky in that I sat down to lunch in front of the TV as the GC contenders started throwing mountains at each other. Kruijswijk looks isolated but is hanging in there, while Chaves is in a group 40s back. Still fifty km to go and a tasty looking double climb to go: I'm setting the 7pm highlights to record tonight!


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Following on twitter stage 16 sounds completely mad so far. Big names in the break but Chaves struggling?


That's about the size of it so far


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

Chaves also isolated, probably, as he seems to be going back to the car for his own water. Didn't even make a pretence of talking to the DS.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Chaves also isolated, probably, as he seems to be going back to the car for his own water. Didn't even make a pretence of talking to the DS.


I think he has Howson with him


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> I think he has Howson with him


Yes, they're on the front now, so he has at least one teammate. Gap down to 34" but fluctuating. Main chase group 1'37" behind the front.


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

Ulissi, Valve and nibbles take the sprint bonuses. Front group seem to have accelerated: Dombrowski dropped, gap up to 42" despite Cannondale and Tinkoff helping Green edge. Chase group out to 2'30". 30km to go. Still looks flat. This could be explosive. I'm working from the lunch room this PM


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Ulissi, Valve and nibbles take the sprint bonuses. Front group seem to have accelerated: Dombrowski dropped, gap up to 42" despite Cannondale and Tinkoff helping Green edge. Chase group out to 2'30". 30km to go. Still looks flat. This could be explosive. I'm working from the lunch room this PM



Dombrowksi wasn't dropped, he was called back by his team! Which further screws my pundit picks today.


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Dombrowksi wasn't dropped, he was called back by his team! Which further screws my pundit picks today.


Ah, I wondered why he seemed cross, apparently with the moto who hadn't done anything wrong that I could see! So Cannondale still think Uran has a chance? Hmm...


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Krjjjjwijk looking strong enough to cover the attacks


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Ah, I wondered why he seemed cross, apparently with the moto who hadn't done anything wrong that I could see! So Cannondale still think Uran has a chance? Hmm...


He must be livid now, Uran dropped by Chaves and can't even hold his own teammate's wheel.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Kruijswijk will attack nearer the end, IMO


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Hont said:


> He must be livid now, Uran dropped by Chaves and can't even hold his own teammate's wheel.


He's livid, imagine how cross @Flying_Monkey is...


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Krjjjjwijk looking strong enough to cover the attacks


He does but he's going to have to cover a lot. 

Ah maybe not, as I type Nibali dropped so they might work together.


----------



## Crackle (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Kruijswijk will attack nearer the end, IMO


I was going to say that. he looks immensely strong and Valverde must have had a good 'rest' day.


----------



## Dayvo (24 May 2016)

Definitely like the 'blue' jersey best.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> I was going to say that. he looks immensely strong and Valverde must have had a good 'rest' day.



The Chav is back with Nibs


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

Chaves bridging to Nibali


Crackle said:


> I was going to say that. he looks immensely strong and Valverde must have had a good 'rest' day.


Plus he is wisely letting Valverde and Zakarin do the work.


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

Valverde needs 39 seconds (ignoring bonifications*) to overtake Nibali for third on GC.

*Copyright Sean Kelly.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

They ought to be buonifications in Italy


----------



## Dayvo (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> They ought to be buonifications in Italy



And Juanifications in Spain.


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

Hont said:


> Valverde needs 39 seconds (ignoring bonifications*) to overtake Nibali for third on GC.


Which is looking like a done deal now.


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

Has Nibali cracked?


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Has Nibali cracked?


Yes-ish. 40 secs back on pink


----------



## Archie (24 May 2016)

Dayvo said:


> And Juanifications in Spain.


Nooooo. Buenofications, shurley?


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

mjray said:


> Has Nibali cracked?


and 25 secs back on Chaves and counting...


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2016)

Only just turned the telly on with 10km to go... Crikey! I've missed a humdinger.


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

rich p said:


> and 25 secs back on Chaves and counting...


Could well be behind both Zakarin and Valverde tonight.


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2016)

Pozzovivo is after getting himself crossed off Nibali's Christmas card list.


----------



## rich p (24 May 2016)

Great stage again.
Nibali is toast...
...good!


----------



## Hont (24 May 2016)

Hont said:


> Could well be behind both Zakarin and Valverde tonight.


Not quite by my calculations. Nibs holds on to 4th by 8 seconds.

Edit 7 seconds according to TV. close enough


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

GC
1 Kruijswijk
2 Chaves +3'00
3 Valverde +3'23
4 Nibali +4'43
5 Zakarin +4'50

Wow. And it's a downhill day tomorrow...


----------



## SWSteve (24 May 2016)

Hold on, is Valverde the Spanish champion? If so, the amount of flag on his kit is pitiful


----------



## brommers (24 May 2016)

With the nature of the stage could some of them conceivably jump on time-trial bikes half way through to try something different?


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2016)

brommers said:


> With the nature of the stage could some of them conceivably jump on time-trial bikes half way through to try something different?



TT bikes aren't allowed in mass start stages.


----------



## brommers (24 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> TT bikes aren't allowed in mass start stages.


Cheers mate. Still learning. Good idea if it was allowed though.


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Hold on, is Valverde the Spanish champion? If so, the amount of flag on his kit is pitiful


Yes and yes, but it's still better than Contador's Ronald McDonald of a few years ago...


----------



## mjr (24 May 2016)

brommers said:


> Cheers mate. Still learning. Good idea if it was allowed though.


Not unless you're a sadist who likes watching crashes. It wouldn't be safe to have part of the field on bikes with completely different handling characteristics and weaker brakes. The much-criticised UCI bike regulations arguably do serve some purpose.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 May 2016)

Okay, we're really down to just 6 now with any chance of being on the podium. Baring calamities, the winner will be:

1 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 63:40:10 

And it looks like 2 and 3 will be, the only question is in which order. Tactically, Valverde has way more nous than Chaves, but Chaves is the stronger climber, and I don't think he will make the same mistake again as he did today:

2 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-GreenEdge 0:03:00 
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:03:23 

These two still have a chance of getting on the podium, but whereas Zakarin is heading up, Nibali is heading down, and almost certainly their positions will be reversed by the end of the race:

4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:04:43 
5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:04:50 

Finally, we shouldn't discount Majka - at least he could certainly also end up in the top 5 (and with a really great ride and a bad day for some others, on the podium, though that is unlikely):

6 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff Team 0:05:34 

Below this, riders are really just hanging on now.


----------



## smutchin (24 May 2016)

brommers said:


> Cheers mate. Still learning. Good idea if it was allowed though.



Maybe, except for the good reasons why it isn't allowed, as @mjray says. As well as the handling of the bikes, there's also those pointy bits sticking out the front to consider - not only are crashes more likely, they're potentially nastier when they do happen!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Okay, we're really down to just 6 now with any chance of being on the podium. Baring calamities, the winner will be:
> 
> 1 Steven Kruijswijk (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 63:40:10
> 
> ...



The pro pundit competition is much more exciting and open.


----------



## HF2300 (24 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Hold on, is Valverde the Spanish champion? If so, the amount of flag on his kit is pitiful



Supposedly Movistar's boss won't let them have any more than the bare minimum - thinks it detracts from the sponsor's logos or sumfink.


----------



## HF2300 (24 May 2016)

Archie said:


> Nooooo. Buenofications, shurley?



Of course it is, and don't call me shurley


----------



## SWSteve (24 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Supposedly Movistar's boss won't let them have any more than the bare minimum - thinks it detracts from the sponsor's logos or sumfink.



He's telling porkies. He's let Dowset have a white skin suit...


----------



## roadrash (24 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> The pro pundit competition is much more exciting and open.



not for me , it isnt


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 May 2016)

roadrash said:


> not for me , it isnt


A max of 375 points still up for grabs (including the jerseys)


----------



## brommers (25 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Dombrowksi wasn't dropped, he was called back by his team! Which further screws my pundit picks today.


This is what Dombrowski said:
"It sounds stupid to make into the break on the climb and then get dropped on he flat but that's what happened," Dombrowski told Cyclingnews post-stage.


----------



## brommers (25 May 2016)

The intermediate sprints should be very competitive with the guys chasing red. I expect Eurosport will go for commercial breaks about 3Km out and then tell us who got the points.


----------



## mjr (25 May 2016)

brommers said:


> The intermediate sprints should be very competitive with the guys chasing red. I expect Eurosport will go for commercial breaks about 3Km out and then tell us who got the points.


Yesterday, I noticed that many of Eurosport's commercial breaks seemed to be synchronised with Rai (once coverage had started on Rai's main channels and not only Rai Sport), so I wonder if it's entirely Eurosport's choice.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (25 May 2016)

brommers said:


> This is what Dombrowski said:
> "It sounds stupid to make into the break on the climb and then get dropped on he flat but that's what happened," Dombrowski told Cyclingnews post-stage.



He did. But at the time the commentators were sure he was being called back. I guess they couldn't believe he lost the wheel so easily...


----------



## smutchin (25 May 2016)

Lars Bak is a mensch.


----------



## mjr (25 May 2016)

Well, the sprint teams screwed that one up, didn't they? Well done Roger Kluge!


----------



## Crackle (25 May 2016)

Cor blimey, g'uvnor!


----------



## smutchin (25 May 2016)

Nizzolo is the new Tyler Farrar/Matt Goss


----------



## Hont (26 May 2016)

Can't believe his DS didn't tell Moser that Trentin was coming, but I guess he was stuffed either way. If he'd gone long Brambilla would have had a tow to the line.

Edit. Moser just said on TV that he didn't know Trentin was that close, so he must have unplugged.


----------



## mjr (26 May 2016)

Hont said:


> Can't believe his DS didn't tell Moser that Trentin was coming, but I guess he was stuffed either way. If he'd gone long Brambilla would have had a tow to the line.


With the team car a long way back (behind Rovny who got it a bit sideways in the narrow streets which are probably not great for TV or race radio reception either) and then shunted down the deviation, I'm not sure the DS would have had chance, plus I'm not sure Moser would have heard the DS easily over a crowd going nutty over three Italians chasing a stage win. Another surprising stage finish, though!


----------



## Hont (26 May 2016)

mjray said:


> With the team car a long way back (behind Rovny who got it a bit sideways in the narrow streets which are probably not great for TV or race radio reception either) and then shunted down the deviation, I'm not sure the DS would have had chance, plus I'm not sure Moser would have heard the DS easily over a crowd going nutty over three Italians chasing a stage win. Another surprising stage finish, though!


True enough. Brambilla _seemed _to know he was coming though.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (26 May 2016)

Hont said:


> True enough. Brambilla _seemed _to know he was coming though.



Or he was just less worried about it, given that he was from the same team.

Great finish, anyway.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 May 2016)

Just watched the highlights, I thought I had mis-read the result. Great finish. It's been an enthralling race.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Hont said:


> Can't believe his DS didn't tell Moser that Trentin was coming, but I guess he was stuffed either way. If he'd gone long Brambilla would have had a tow to the line.
> 
> Edit. Moser just said on TV that he didn't know Trentin was that close, so he must have unplugged.



Or it took his DS by suprise. Might be the team didn't get the information, rather than they didn't get it to him. It also looked to me as though he wasn't really looking behind, apart from the odd glance at Brambilla.

Not sure he'd have been able to do anything about it anyway. Trentin was flying, and Moser didn't look as though he had all that much left in the tank - it seemed to me Brambilla had made him work enough earlier to tire him out.

If he'd sat behind Brambilla for the last km the outcome would likely have been the same, if he'd gone long I don't know that he'd have had enough speed to hold off Brambilla or particularly Trentin.

Great teamwork by Brambilla, again. Old head on young shoulders and all that.


----------



## rich p (27 May 2016)

Brambilla is having a great tour. He's been on my 'like' radar since he had a punch up with some doped Russian Tinkoff rider a year or two ago.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Brambilla is having a great tour. He's been on my 'like' radar since he had a punch up with some doped Russian Tinkoff rider a year or two ago.


It was Rovny, the bloke from the chasing group who cooked it on the corner before the final climb yesterday and had a close encounter with the barriers.


----------



## rich p (27 May 2016)

So it was! Brambilla must have had a schadenfreude giggle at that


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 May 2016)

My favourite thing about this Giro is that the "Classics Teams" of Lotto Soudal, Lotto Jumbo and Etixx-QS are completely shafting the "Grand Tour Teams" e.g. Sky, Astana, BMC. Movistar (I generalise, obvs.)


----------



## Dogtrousers (27 May 2016)

Well for two stages that could have both been pretty boring, with the GC boys sitting back, those have been two thrilling finishes.


----------



## SWSteve (27 May 2016)

What happened to Modolo's bike? Freewheeling across the line, but with both legs bent in what didn't look to be a too comfortable position.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> My favourite thing about this Giro is that the "Classics Teams" of Lotto Soudal, Lotto Jumbo and Etixx-QS are completely shafting the "Grand Tour Teams" e.g. Sky, Astana, BMC. Movistar (I generalise, obvs.)



I haven't by any means seen all of every stage, but is there a feeling that the GT mentality is hurting the big teams while the others are getting further by treating it almost as a series of classics?


----------



## mjr (27 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Or it took his DS by suprise. Might be the team didn't get the information, rather than they didn't get it to him. It also looked to me as though he wasn't really looking behind, apart from the odd glance at Brambilla.


The Cycling Podcast say that Moser had removed his earpiece.


----------



## Berk on a Bike (27 May 2016)

mjray said:


> The Cycling Podcast say that Moser had removed his earpiece.


No doubt his DS reinserted it for him later...


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Kruisjwijck's team blown off by the first major attack.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

That's really split the group up


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Still a long way out for an attack.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Softening up. Coming back together a bit now, still just a handful though. Think OGE got a bit overexcited there.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Valverde flagging


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Looks like Valverde's high mountain weakness is kicking in: Good.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

And Nibali's looking a bit stronger than he has done


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

I wish Hatch would get his pronunciation of Kriiijjjswiiiijjjjjk sorted out


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Kriiijjjswiiiijjjjjk down!


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Bloody hell, big old crash and his bike is looking dodgy


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Wide on a corner and hit a snow bank hard, lost a fair chunk of time.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Not sure who's where now


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Crumbs, Zakarin down; looks bad


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Zakarin down now, big crash into a gully


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Kruiswijk gets another bike. Totally on his own though.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Race ticker showing Scarponi leading, Ulissi, Dupont, Cardoso, Silin, Nieve, Boswell, Roche behind, then 4'50" to Nibali and Chaves, Kruijswijk another 30" or so back, then the Valverde group. Montfort just caught Scarponi


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Correction - now showing maglia rosa behind Valverde and over 2 mins back from Chaves.



HF2300 said:


> It probably is Kruijswijk's to lose now, but with a bunch of tough stages this week and the chasing group only 2 - 3 minutes back, I can't help feeling 'in the bag' might still be overstating it.



I could just see something like this happening in the mountains. Hate to be proved right though.


----------



## smutchin (27 May 2016)

This is a crazy stage. The Agnello is a real brute. 

Kruijswijk is looking very nervy. Might even be off the podium tonight. Movistar, Astana and Orica all did well to get riders up the road to help on the final climb.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

I wondered if that was part of the Scarponi plan - someone up the road in case he's needed.


----------



## brommers (27 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Crumbs, Zakarin down; looks bad


Zakarin conscious but broken collarbone


----------



## Dayvo (27 May 2016)

brommers said:


> Zakarin conscious but broken collarbone



His bike was a good 20 yards away from him. Must have been a terrible fall. He was lucky he didn't land in the stream.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

It's all coming back though


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Now showing Montfort leading, Scarponi etc. group 45" back, Nibali and Chaves about 2'30" behind them, Valverde catching, maglia rosa just over a minute behind Chaves, so either the timings are off or he's going faster than it looked.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Kruijswijk's going to owe Jungels et al, they've brought another 15 seconds back.

Correction - that might just be screwy timings.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

yep timings all back out now.

This where Kruisjwijck really misses a strong team. There's no one near to help him out and he's doing a lot now.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Yes, absolutely.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Kruijswijk's doing too much work on that chase group, as well. He'll be wiped out for tomorrow and I don't see him having the backing then either.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Kruijswijk's doing too much work on that chase group, as well. He'll be wiped out for tomorrow and I don't see him having the backing then either.


He's cracking now. panicked too much earlier.


----------



## SWSteve (27 May 2016)

I picked the wrong rider from SKY in the punditry


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

Nieve, Chaves, Nibali - who's going to get it?

I'd say Nieve, then Chaves to drop Nibali on the last steepest section... but let's see.

edit: but now Ulissi is back with them too...


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

Nibali goes and holds the gap. What a stage this is.


----------



## SWSteve (27 May 2016)

How in 1km has Nibali attacked, and put 1'15" into Valverde


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> How in 1km has Nibali attacked, and put 1'15" into Valverde



He hasn't. Valverde was already in a chasing group behind.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

Nibali has attacked before the steepest section... let's see what Chaves does on that bit.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

He's put 40secs in


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Nibali has attacked before the steepest section... let's see what Chaves does on that bit.



I think Nibali will still take it.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I think Nibali will still take it.



I think so - tactically it was the best time for him. If he had come to the steep bit with Nibali, then I would have said it was better for Chaves.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

34 seconds into Chavez. If Chvez fades Kruisjwicjk could still keep the pink jersey


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

Chaves is still extending over Kruijswijk. But Nibali is just pulling out over Chaves.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

Was Nibali 'faking' over the last couple of days, and always planning this? I wouldn't put it past him.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

51 seconds between Nibali and Chaves...


----------



## beastie (27 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Was Nibali 'faking' over the last couple of days, and always planning this? I wouldn't put it past him.


Surely nobody fakes 4 mins of losses. 
Great ride though today. He is showing now why you should NEVER give up...it ain't over till its over. The stage where he held the gap solo for 35 kms is looking like a great ride now.


----------



## beastie (27 May 2016)

Well that makes for a very interesting stage. Another one tomorrow as well hopefully. Amazing turnaround from Nibbles. 

Kruijswijck will be disappointed with that but he should be happy he's not in the back of the ambulance after that crash.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Was Nibali 'faking' over the last couple of days, and always planning this? I wouldn't put it past him.



I don't know. Over literally the last couple of days, on the flatter stages, maybe, but they probably weren't his opportunities anyway. Since the beginning of the week, no, I don't think so - if he had it in him and with such a big chunk of time to bring back, would he risk leaving things to the last two stages?

Oh, and speaking of unrepentant ex-dopers, here's Vino.


----------



## Crackle (27 May 2016)

This to come tomorrow and you wouldn't bet against Nibali taking it now. Astonishing stage.


----------



## smutchin (27 May 2016)

The summit of the Bonette isn't much lower than the summit of the Agnello. And the stage is only 134km long so the pace is going to be brutal from the start. Insane.


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> This to come tomorrow and you wouldn't bet against Nibali taking it now. Astonishing stage.



Still the four main suspects in it with Nibali only 44" down. After flogging himself to death today, injured, and with no real team backup over mountains like that, I can't see Kruijswijk pulling the time back. Valverde's not looking up to it, and I can't help feeling OGE are shaded by Astana for strength in depth.

Then again, on brutal (copyright @smutchin ) stages like these, it could all turn on its head again...

Going to be one to watch.


----------



## smutchin (27 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> But then again, it only takes Kruijswijk to have one bad day to blow this race wide open again, and there are some tough stages still to come...



Sometimes I hate being right!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (27 May 2016)

This a great looking stage. In theory, a short, sharp, high mountain stage suits Chaves more than any of the other contenders. He struggles on the longer stages, so he did really well to contain Nibali to the extent he did today. However, there are also a lot of descents, including a very important one right near the end, and Nibali is by far the best descender amongst the top riders. It's too high for Valverde to be comfortable, and it's too short and steep for Kruijswijk to come back. I'm still going to go with Chaves because I think Nibali may have given a lot to get the stage win today...

However, let's not forget that there are also quite a few climbers who will be wanting a stage win tomorrow and the racing is just going to be crazy. I can't see much in the way of defensive riding going on because the gaps are so small at the very top.


----------



## rich p (27 May 2016)

ABN...
...Anyone but Nibali. Humble etceteras.
Poor Kruijswijk though!


----------



## HF2300 (27 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Poor Kruijswijk though!



Yep. You'd have thought he above anyone would have been able to do a J turn.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (27 May 2016)

I've seen a few "tut-tut for attacking the jersey" mentions on social media. Twats. Go back to whooping at golf if you dinnae ken what yer on aboot!

I havenae even seen the end yet - just watching Eurosport highlights - but what a great stage so far


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## Pro Tour Punditry (27 May 2016)

What an amazing stage.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (27 May 2016)

I still want to punch Scarponi in the face, repeatedly.


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## 400bhp (27 May 2016)

Wow

This is Nibali's to win. Chaves was farked. He has no team.

Krosswig looked ill half way up the last climb. Lonenely place that. Reminded me when I first started watching bike racing in the 80's.


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## smutchin (27 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I've seen a few "tut-tut for attacking the jersey" mentions on social media.



Uh? Really? How very bonkers!


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## SWSteve (27 May 2016)

By the time I put on the stage earlier, I missed CrossWag's crash, but if you bin it, surely people can attack? They can't just sit around waiting for him


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## mjr (27 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> By the time I put on the stage earlier, I missed CrossWag's crash, but if you bin it, surely people can attack? They can't just sit around waiting for him


I feel they can attack when it's like today. It wasn't like he was taken out by a fan or poor road maintenance. Still a rotten way to lose the lead, though.


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## brommers (27 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Nibali is by far the best descender amongst the top riders QUOTE]


They keep saying that but I've not really seen any evidence of that


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## Crackle (27 May 2016)

"They keep saying that but I've not really seen any evidence of that"

Witness today and look at the line he took and the line Kruisjwicjk took and the fact he attacked the descent. He may well have noted Kruisjwicjk's discomfort on previous descents whereas he is entirely comfortable on descents and he's blown a few races apart on descents in bad weather. Coming off doesn't discourage him either as witnessed on one of the classics last year.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

Betancur is out - like we care


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> I've seen a few "tut-tut for attacking the jersey" mentions on social media. Twats





smutchin said:


> Uh? Really? How very bonkers!



Several comments on the Eurosport commentary as well - obviously had people emailing or tweeting in.



brommers said:


> They keep saying that but I've not really seen any evidence of that



It can be quite subtle, but as @Crackle says, you need to look at the lines people take, who presses on and pushes the speed up on fast descents, who looks confident and who's a bit jittery or hestitant, people cornering cleanly and confidently vs. dropping back at corners or wobbling through them, confidence braking, that sort of thing.

It still baffles me why riders don't (seem to) pay attention to practicing cornering lines and descents. OK, it might not have saved Kruijswijk - you can always make a mistake - but on tricky descents we've repeatedly seen (whole lines of) riders turn into corners too early and almost run out of road on the exit, which is what seemed to happen yesterday - though he commented he 'wanted to eat and drink something', so maybe he just wasn't concentrating at a critical moment.

He's talking about "I f...ed up, I've lost the Giro", which if he still feels the same doesn't sound as though he has the right head on to attack today. His team are reporting he's fractured a rib, so he might not even start this morning...


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## smutchin (28 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Witness today and look at the line he took and the line Kruisjwicjk took and the fact he attacked the descent. He may well have noted Kruisjwicjk's discomfort on previous descents whereas he is entirely comfortable on descents and he's blown a few races apart on descents in bad weather. Coming off doesn't discourage him either as witnessed on one of the classics last year.



Exactly this. It was already full on racing by the time Grousewog fell off, so the 'attacking the jersey' comments are imbecilic, and in fact it was the pressure being exerted by Nibali and Chaves (another very accomplished descender) that probably caused Krooseweek to overcook that bend. 

There's no way back for Krasswerk now - it's not just the time he lost, it's the psychological impact that will make him Pinotesque on today's descents and the pain from his injuries that will make the ascents even more uncomfortable - amazing he even finished the stage if he cracked a rib. 

And that's bike racing, Brian. Nibali was looking similarly vulnerable earlier in the week but yesterday was a masterclass in crushing your rivals, both mentally and physically. Merckx and Hinault used to do that all the time.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Merckx and Hinault used to do that all the time.


Yesterday's stage reminded me of the Tour de France with Merckx v Ocana from the early 70s (I am obviously far far too young to have watched it live of course...) when Merckx attacked and broke Ocana mentally and physically, and resulted in Ocana withdrawing (in some accounts it would appear his injuries were not too bad but he was broken)

Edit - see it here


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnLjiTzejo


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2016)

I'm pleased to see the indications from LottoNL-Jumbo that Kruijswijk will at least start today. Whether he finishes, however, is another matter.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Nibali was looking similarly vulnerable earlier in the week but yesterday was a masterclass in crushing your rivals, both mentally and physically.



And in teamwork and tactics. Two riders up the road to help if needed, Scarponi taking the Cima Coppi then dropping back for Nibali (so two pots for the price of one, etc.). I thought OGE's attack over the Agnello was optimistic, but what it did do was split Kruijswijk from his support leaving him isolated at a critical time.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

On a completely OT point, I would love to own a 1970s Tour de France vehicle complete with funky car horn. It would be, as I believe the kids say nowadays, da bomb.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

You can buy the horns, they're made by Fiamm


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-604-TDF-Tour-de-France-Norev-1-43-/181737941995


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

That man Brambilla in the breakaway again, and Movistar and Astana have both put someone up there. Only 10km in though.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You can buy the horns, they're made by Fiamm





HF2300 said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-604-TDF-Tour-de-France-Norev-1-43-/181737941995



Tour horn and car for less than 60 quid, I'll be having some of that...


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Breakaway Nieve, Kangert, Atapuma, Dombrowski, Brambilla, Rybalkin, Foliforov, Denifl, Visconti, Ulissi, Taaramae at about 6'00" lead, just topped the first climb.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiZP4zeO1A


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

And they're at the bottom of the Bonette. Nieve off on his own.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiZP4zeO1A



I am so getting one, I have informed my wife of this. She rolled her eyes. Which I think is wife-body-language for "go ahead, that would be an excellent acquisition"


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## smutchin (28 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> And in teamwork and tactics. Two riders up the road to help if needed,



Absolutely! They got it tactically perfect. I know Astana are Team Evil but you've got to admire the way they raced yesterday.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Nieve over the top of the Bonette, into the blue jersey and taking a newspaper. Nice to see that flash back to tradition in these days of technical clothing.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2016)

Really enjoying watching Nieve - a proper old-fashioned climber.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

I'll be glad when this Giro's over so I don't have to listen to Hatch mangling Kraftwerk's name...


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

That main group's really splintering now.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2016)

Lots of psychology going on in the front group. Visconti saying he can't ride because he's waiting for Valverde, then later putting in a dig... Dombrowski refusing to take a turn after Atapuma has just upped the pace again... and now, Taramaae and Kangert are back on.


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2016)

...and I'm going to miss the end as I have to go out now!


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2016)

I've got a horrible feeling Nibbles might do this.


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## Crackle (28 May 2016)

I haven't really looked before at how Chaves rides, so he might be looking normal now but to me he looks to be pedalling squares and his face is drawn.


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Nibbles, Chaves and Valverde go


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> I haven't really looked before at how Chaves rides, so he might be looking normal now but to me he looks to be pedalling squares and his face is drawn.



He doesn't look at all comfortable


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2016)

Go on Columbia!


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Or Colombia...


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

That's Chaves blown


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Or Colombia...


Them too!


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## HF2300 (28 May 2016)

Nibbles really looks as though he's hurting now. It'll be tight...


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2016)

Boo!!!!!


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## beastie (28 May 2016)

Great determination from Nibali. In the end though he was only a bit better than Valverde. If Kruisjwijck disnae crash he would have probly won and Chavez has run out of gas. 

Nibali showing that having two bad days is recoverable and showing good tactical awareness. Each time he has had an advantage the clever teamwork has really dragged as much out of it as possible. Conversely when he had a jour sans he held the damage and fought on. 

Or he was very well prepared for the last two stages...........


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## mjr (28 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> I haven't really looked before at how Chaves rides, so he might be looking normal now but to me he looks to be pedalling squares and his face is drawn.


German commentary suggested he had some shifting problems and had to mash when he wouldn't ordinarily. Flat/dud Di2 battery or similar, perhaps? It'll be interesting what is said in interviews.

There's nothing _wrong _ with Nibali except riding for Team Vino (as far as we know) but with all I've read about him, I can't really get enthusiastic about him winning rather than the last two leaders. Oh well, at least it's not Valverde.


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## Crackle (28 May 2016)

Valvpitti makes it onto the podium though: Boooo!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm pleased to see the indications from LottoNL-Jumbo that Kruijswijk will at least start today. Whether he finishes, however, is another matter.


And he put in some performance as well. For a time.


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## Strathlubnaig (28 May 2016)

An excellent tactical ride by Nibali, cannot take anything away from him at all, he pulled a rabbit out the chapeau when it was needed, of course it may have been different if Kruisjwijck had not had his crash but that's racing for ya. CHaves pretty isolated early on really,so he did well to do what he did. Kruisjwijck deserves a prize for just finishing, chapeau.


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## SWSteve (28 May 2016)

I wonder how bad Kraftwerk's injuries were, and how much of an effect they will have had. To be fair to Crosshairs, if I had gone through 3 weeks of hell, I would want to finish


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I wonder how bad Kraftwerk's injuries were, and how much of an effect they will have had. To be fair to Crosshairs, if I had gone through 3 weeks of hell, I would want to finish


He said as much after the stage finish today:
“I didn’t suffer for 3 weeks to give it all up now.”


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## Dave Davenport (28 May 2016)

mjray said:


> German commentary suggested he had some shifting problems and had to mash when he wouldn't ordinarily. Flat/dud Di2 battery or similar, perhaps? It'll be interesting what is said in interviews.
> 
> There's nothing _wrong _ with Nibali except riding for Team Vino (as far as we know)


Apart from being a cheat.


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## Strathlubnaig (28 May 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Apart from being a cheat.


Yeah, he did that get a tow back thing in 2015 Vuelta, for which he was thrown off the race.


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## cisamcgu (28 May 2016)

Is there a definitive list of who is a cheat and who isn't ? I don't mean rumour and hearsay, but who has actually failed a drug test ? I get very confused by people saying Nibali is a cheat, or isn't a cheat for example... having a list to refer to whilst watching the races on TV would be useful. 

I am not being ironic or sarcastic, by the way, I really would like a list ...


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

cisamcgu said:


> Is there a definitive list of who is a cheat and who isn't ? I don't mean rumour and hearsay, but who has actually failed a drug test ? I get very confused by people saying Nibali is a cheat, or isn't a cheat for example... having a list to refer to whilst watching the races on TV would be useful.
> 
> I am not being ironic or sarcastic, by the way, I really would like a list ...


Lance. But he never failed a test (he did, but he doesn't like to talk about it...)


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## cisamcgu (28 May 2016)

That doesn't really help


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## Crackle (28 May 2016)

cisamcgu said:


> Is there a definitive list of who is a cheat and who isn't ? I don't mean rumour and hearsay, but who has actually failed a drug test ? I get very confused by people saying Nibali is a cheat, or isn't a cheat for example... having a list to refer to whilst watching the races on TV would be useful.
> 
> I am not being ironic or sarcastic, by the way, I really would like a list ...


http://www.dopeology.org/


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## cisamcgu (28 May 2016)

Thanks.. I will have a look


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

cisamcgu said:


> Thanks.. I will have a look


And "current baddies" here
http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/anti-doping-rule-violations/


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## cisamcgu (28 May 2016)

Merci beaucoup


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 May 2016)

Thought Nibali taking the time to acknowledge Chaves' parents was a nice touch


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## Flying_Monkey (28 May 2016)

I really hope that was all legit, because Nibali really did look like he had completely new legs the last two days. Tactically perfect ride today, with enormous credit to Scarponi and Kangert who each rode as impressively as Nibali.


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## Crackle (28 May 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I really hope that was all legit, because Nibali really did look like he had completely new legs the last two days. Tactically perfect ride today, with enormous credit to Scarponi and Kangert who each rode as impressively as Nibali.


I've seen only a few interpretations of his power but they looked entirely believable. I also consider it entirely believable that you can see turnarounds of minutes in stages as riders have good and bad days. Ultimately who knows but Nibali didn't do a Landis.


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## SWSteve (28 May 2016)

Has Nibali stayed at the same level, and others have sank beneath him, whilst he keeps swimming? I can't help but feel this is a feature of his, where he may seem a little below the other riders, but stays strong for the whole race, not the first 18 stages.


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## Pale Rider (28 May 2016)

Eurosport highlights of today's stage were a bit short, didn't really tell the story at all.


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## Flying_Monkey (29 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> I've seen only a few interpretations of his power but they looked entirely believable. I also consider it entirely believable that you can see turnarounds of minutes in stages as riders have good and bad days. Ultimately who knows but Nibali didn't do a Landis.



True, and he did almost start to fall apart on the steepest part of the last climb...


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## smutchin (29 May 2016)

Crackle said:


> Ultimately who knows but Nibali didn't do a Landis.



Yeah, it's been a feature of this race that no one has looked invincible. 

Nibali might have had new legs for the last two stages but he also had a lot of help from team-mates. Definitely not Landis-esque.


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## rich p (29 May 2016)

Scarponi seemed to roll back the years and he's a rider we can all admire....
How well I recall him getting cross with Basso, many moons ago, as they sped away from the peloton, both doped to the gills.


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## HF2300 (29 May 2016)

rich p said:


> Scarponi seemed to roll back the years and he's a rider we can all admire...



I think this is a lot closer to the mark. I'd shied away from raising the spectre of doping earlier in this thread, and I think Astana got the tactics just right, but I hate that there's always that suspicion they're able to make the tactics stick because of an extra edge...


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## brommers (29 May 2016)

Brave ride from Kruijswick, managing to keep up there with them.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 May 2016)

The Paddy Power advert is most amusing


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## Crackle (29 May 2016)

Big old sourface from Nizzolo


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## rliu (29 May 2016)

Cannot believe Nizzolo still hasn't got a stage win, not seen replays of the sprint but it does seem instances of riders getting relegated for impediment are getting more regular, can count Zakarin in Romandie and Greipel in Tour of Britain as recent examples.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 May 2016)

Nibali saying he was ill prior to mountain TT
http://cyclingquotes.com/news/react...tage_of_the_giro_ditalia/#fAtxGG3yRe28wyOT.97


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## Crackle (29 May 2016)

Marmion said:


> Nibali saying he was ill prior to mountain TT
> http://cyclingquotes.com/news/react...tage_of_the_giro_ditalia/#fAtxGG3yRe28wyOT.97


Quite a good interview with some good insights into his tactics and thinking and why he attacked on the descent where criucjook crashed.


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## brommers (29 May 2016)

One little crash and they neutralize the race. Would that have happened if Nabili wasn't Italian?


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## beastie (29 May 2016)

rliu said:


> Cannot believe Nizzolo still hasn't got a stage win, not seen replays of the sprint but it does seem instances of riders getting relegated for impediment are getting more regular, can count Zakarin in Romandie and Greipel in Tour of Britain as recent examples.


It was a clear case of changing his line. Right decision imo


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## Dogtrousers (30 May 2016)

I really enjoyed that. If the TdF is half as entertaining as that it will be a good 'un. Plenty of action in the GC, plenty of excitement in the non-GC stages. Pity that the sprinters comp was a bit of a nonsense with the big boys dropping out.


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## 400bhp (30 May 2016)

I have to question Niblali's sanity taking on the TDF after this.


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## smutchin (30 May 2016)

400bhp said:


> I have to question Niblali's sanity taking on the TDF after this.



Some of the Tour's early stages look like wind could be a factor. Wonder what odds you'd get on the peloton splitting with Aru caught in the chasing group and Nibali up the road...


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## 400bhp (31 May 2016)

smutchin said:


> Some of the Tour's early stages look like wind could be a factor. Wonder what odds you'd get on the peloton splitting with Aru caught in the chasing group and Nibali up the road...


Coincidentally I am right at this minute in the area of the grande departe. I went out for a ride this morning. 15mph nw wind with very straight and open roads and the rolling terrain make it ideal for echelons to form


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## Hont (31 May 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I think this is a lot closer to the mark. I'd shied away from raising the spectre of doping earlier in this thread, and I think Astana got the tactics just right, but I hate that there's always that suspicion they're able to make the tactics stick because of an extra edge...


Astana bring a murky brown sheen to their every achievement. Some of that will inevitably stick to Nibali. And will likely do so for the rest of his career, whoever he rides for.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (31 May 2016)

Hont said:


> Astana bring a murky brown sheen to their every achievement. Some of that will inevitably stick to Nibali. And will likely do so for the rest of his career, whoever he rides for.



I cannot possibly imagine anything could go wrong at Team Bahrain...


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