# Don't think I was built for cycling



## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

Well it looks like I'm off the bike again! Went out on Sunday and did a 50miles ride. This morning my right knee was killing, pain both at the front and the back. It hurts to walk. 

I'm starting to think I'm not built for cycling as I haven't managed a full year without injury yet since starting 5 years ago.

I started back this year in July have taken it easy and now my knee is playing up again. 

Going to book in for another bike fit and Physio appointments to see what they say. I think after this injury I might have to admit defeat and give in cycling as my body definitely doesn't like it!

Is there a swimming chat?


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## steve50 (12 Dec 2016)

Just a thought, are you protecting yourself (your knees) from the cold?
I too had problems with sore knees last winter but I cured them by finding a a pair of thick thermal lined socks that I cut the toes out of and used them as knee warmers which I wore under leg warmers....................cosy warm knees.............no more sore knees.


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## mjr (12 Dec 2016)

What the heck are you doing?  What were your previous few rides before the 50 miles? Were there any warning signs during the ride?

Was it on the bike on your avatar? The seatpost looks very long for the bike but I might be drunk on mulled wine. Could you be overextending your leg? Which type of bike fit did you have done?

Your veloviewer sig thingy suggests a 15.3mph average this year, which seems pretty fast for someone with a playful knee - how fast was yesterday's ride? On your own or with others?


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## Dayvo (12 Dec 2016)

Get a proper bike fit. Something simple must be wrong.

Whether your shoes/cleats are wrong, or your saddle too far back/forward or too high/low, your handlebars to far/near. 

Get it sorted by someone who knows what they're doing and hopefully your troubles, and aches and pains, will be behind you.


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## screenman (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Well it looks like I'm off the bike again! Went out on Sunday and did a 50miles ride. This morning my right knee was killing, pain both at the front and the back. It hurts to walk.
> 
> I'm starting to think I'm not built for cycling as I haven't managed a full year without injury yet since starting 5 years ago.
> 
> ...



I mention swimming on here quite often.


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Get your knee checked by a physio specialising in cycling if you can. Ask / pay for an MRI if the issue has been going on a while

How old are you?
Have you injured your knee?
Does it hurt other than cycling and walking? Does it bend and straighten? Can you sit on your heels? Or pull heel to bum when standing?
How's your flexibility in knee, hips, back, ankles?
Do you stretch after cycling?


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## Cycleops (12 Dec 2016)

As @mjr suggests there is something wrong if your bike is configured as per your avatar. I don't think i could manage 50m like that never mind 50miles.


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

mjr said:


> What the heck are you doing?  What were your previous few rides before the 50 miles? Were there any warning signs during the ride?
> 
> Was it on the bike on your avatar? The seatpost looks very long for the bike but I might be drunk on mulled wine. Could you be overextending your leg? Which type of bike fit did you have done?
> 
> Your veloviewer sig thingy suggests a 15.3mph average this year, which seems pretty fast for someone with a playful knee - how fast was yesterday's ride? On your own or with others?



I generally do rides of about 50miles or abit more. Haven't done any crazy distances.

It wasn't on that bike, I've hardly used the Cannondale yet. It's not set up properly yet, only got it in September as my summer bike.

It was on my silver CDF, had a bike fit a couple of years ago at Pearsons. Knee had been fine beforehand, it's been a couple of years since it played up due to over-use. 

Think I averaged 15mph so not that quick!


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Pearsons in Sheen have physio services, might be worth booking an appointment

http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/summit-wellbeing/


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## ColinJ (12 Dec 2016)

I got a cleat position wrong once but didn't notice until halfway through a 20 mile ride, by which time I had done sufficient damage to my knee for it to hurt for a couple of months after that! It isn't hard for incorrect bike/cleat setup to cause pain.

The other time I developed knee pain was when I was very overweight. The strain of carting the blubber about was making my knees pack up. I lost several stone and the pain just went away. Is your weight ok?


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## dim (12 Dec 2016)

too much too soon .... 50 miles is a long way for someone who is not bike fit .... plus the bike is not set up correctly (thats what gives the knee pain) or the cycling technique is wrong (grinding instead of spinning) and you are pedalling stronger with one leg

get a proper bike fit .... not cheap but from what I have read on other forums, the Guru fit is well worth the money if you are very serious about cycling but suffer discomfort as the bike is not set up properly :

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/bike-fi...vd3gDqepgaAhu_8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds#the-process

http://cadenceperformance.com/services/bike-fit/retul/







you could always try the Eddy bike fit calculator (thats what I used when I started off and it's pretty accurate (use the Eddy bike fit calcs ( it gives 3 different sets of dimensions, but the Eddy fit is the most comfortable (for me) ...
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.jsp#type


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## screenman (12 Dec 2016)

I have had pain in either my left foot or more recently my right ankle whilst cycling for over 30 years now. I have right knee arthritis, but I am not giving in.


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Pearsons in Sheen have physio services, might be worth booking an appointment
> 
> http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/summit-wellbeing/




Thanks - Think I'm going to try somewhere closed to where I work in London, so can go at lunchtime


ColinJ said:


> I got a cleat position wrong once but didn't notice until halfway through a 20 mile ride, by which time I had done sufficient damage to my knee for it to hurt for a couple of months after that! It isn't hard for incorrect bike/cleat setup to cause pain.
> 
> The other time I developed knee pain was when I was very overweight. The strain of carting the blubber about was making my knees pack up. I lost several stone and the pain just went away. Is your weight ok?



Yeah weight is fine, 136lbs and I'm just over 6 foot! 

I'm going to check out the bike store in Windsor for a bike fit next week.


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> too much too soon .... 50 miles is a long way for someone who is not bike fit .... plus the bike is not set up correctly (thats what gives the knee pain) or the cycling technique is wrong (grinding instead of spinning) and you are pedalling stronger with one leg
> 
> get a proper bike fit .... not cheap but from what I have read on other forums, the Guru fit is well worth the money if you are very serious about cycling but suffer discomfort as the bike is not set up properly :
> 
> ...



He says he's had a bike fit previously


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Thanks - Think I'm going to try somewhere closed to where I work in London, so can go at lunchtime
> 
> 
> Yeah weight is fine, 136lbs and I'm just over 6 foot!
> ...


Go see Nicole at pelotonphysio, she practices in Putney (Near station on Staines line iirc) and near Blackfriars  v good cycling specialist physio, does on bike assessments too


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## NorthernDave (12 Dec 2016)

I caused myself knee problems by grinding away in too high a gear, when I should have dropped it down a couple to spin. I thought that working harder would give me a better work out, and it cost me a month off the bike and it's still not 100% now over a year on.
And I was told by a physio that around 80% of the cyclists she treats with knee problems are due to poorly set up cleats...


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## dim (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> He says he's had a bike fit previously



well obviously things never worked out according to the bike fit .... would be good if he tells us where he had the bike fit and how it was performed (you can have a bike fit done at Halfords by a teenager)

my suggestion is that he double checks the fit with the Eddy bike fit calculator results first .... and if he can afford it, a Guru computer fit may be worthwhile (after reading reviews on other forums, I'd love to have one but it's expensive .... it's on my 'wishlist' though)

I'm guessing, but I think that the saddle height and/or the saddle position is not set up correctly (either too far forward, or too far back) .... add that to grinding (especially on hills), and you will get bad knee pain on your strong leg (my left leg is stronger than my right when I peddle)


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Go see Nicole at pelotonphysio, she practices in Putney (Near station on Staines line iirc) and near Blackfriars  v good cycling specialist physio, does on bike assessments too



Thanks - will look to see if It is feasible to get an appointment before or after work


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> well obviously things never worked out according to the bike fit .... would be good if he tells us where he had the bike fit and how it was performed (you can have a bike fit done at Halfords by a teenager)
> 
> my suggestion is that he double checks the fit with the Eddy bike fit calculator results first .... and if he can afford it, a Guru computer fit may be worthwhile (after reading reviews on other forums, I'd love to have one but it's expensive .... it's on my 'wishlist' though)
> 
> I'm guessing, but I think that the saddle height and/or the saddle position is not set up correctly (either too far forward, or too far back) .... add that to grinding (especially on hills), and you will get bad knee pain on your strong leg (my left leg is stronger than my right when I peddle)


It was done at Pearsons, says so in the post 

http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/bike-fitting/

They're pretty knowledgeable 

It's entirely possible he has a latent knee injury aggravated by cycling, not necessarily caused by it


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

https://thebikecompany.co.uk/bike-fitting/

Thinking of trying this place out - £125 doesn't seem that bad...

Easier for me to get to than Pearsons now!


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## dim (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> It was done at Pearsons, says so in the post
> 
> http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/bike-fitting/
> 
> They're pretty knowledgeable



DOH! ... helps if I read *all* the posts before posting!


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## mjr (12 Dec 2016)

So, to repeat, did you try to go from nothing to fifty miles at 15mph?

And I suspect your saddle position isn't quite right but I hesitate to suggest how without seeing you. I'm much more keen on adjusting things by feel than by doing big bike fits but I'm a retro grouch.


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Thanks - will look to see if It is feasible to get an appointment before or after work


She certainly does evenings


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> DOH! ... helps if I read *all* the posts before posting!


Indeed

I've not had a fit at Pearsons although they have fitted me to a bike which they built. I didn't personally rate the Retul fit I had at Cadence.

The physio fit was much better as she was familiar with my injuries etc


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> https://thebikecompany.co.uk/bike-fitting/
> 
> Thinking of trying this place out - £125 doesn't seem that bad...
> 
> Easier for me to get to than Pearsons now!


Is the fitter a trained musculoskeletal physio though?


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

mjr said:


> So, to repeat, did you try to go from nothing to fifty miles at 15mph?
> 
> And I suspect your saddle position isn't quite right but I hesitate to suggest how without seeing you. I'm much more keen on adjusting things by feel than by doing big bike fits but I'm a retro grouch.



No I've been building up from 20miles gradually again upto 50miles over 6 months. I've got the bike set up to how was recommended at the bike fit, but that was a couple of years ago now.


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## Rustybucket (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Is the fitter a trained musculoskeletal physio though?



Haven't a clue!


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Haven't a clue!


It's an important question to ask before parting with cash

Peloton has a blog about cycling and knee pain which might be of interest 

http://www.pelotonphysiotherapy.co.uk/the-meat-in-the-sandwich-cycling-related-knee-pain/

http://www.pelotonphysiotherapy.co.uk/the-meat-in-the-sandwich-part-2/


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## dim (12 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Indeed
> 
> I've not had a fit at Pearsons although they have fitted me to a bike which they built. I didn't personally rate the Retul fit I had at Cadence.
> 
> The physio fit was much better as she was familiar with my injuries etc



so, you have already had a few bike fits? (Pearsons, Cadence and a physio fit?


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## vickster (12 Dec 2016)

dim said:


> so, you have already had a few bike fits? (Pearsons, Cadence and a physio fit?


I guess. Not a formal fit by Pearsons, but when I bought the carbon from them, it was set up on the turbo. That's over 5 years ago, not ridden the bike this year 

I had the Retul fit
Then the physio did a bike assessment when I saw her for treatment after knee surgery
My ails on the bike aren't down to fit, but latent injuries and muscle tightness, currently both knees, shoulder


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## mjr (12 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> No I've been building up from 20miles gradually again upto 50miles over 6 months. I've got the bike set up to how was recommended at the bike fit, but that was a couple of years ago now.


Fit changes, with fitness and core strength amongst others, but knees can also be aggravated by simple position. There's plenty of tips like the old trick about being roughly able to put your heel on the pedal with leg straight, or these days you might be able to video yourself and see if it looks wrong.

How did you build up to the recent fifty that injured you? What were the rides over the previous ten days?


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## Johnno260 (12 Dec 2016)

May be a latent injury?

I haven't had a proper bike fitting yet, mine was setup at the shop they spent ages with me before I left and made lots of little adjustments.

I suffer for very bad knees and my right hip is junk (old martial arts injuries) but I have found that cycling doesn't aggravate any of those injuries yet.

I do make sure my knees are warm in colder/damp weather though, and I haven't tried anything approaching 50miles yet.


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Go see Nicole at pelotonphysio, she practices in Putney (Near station on Staines line iirc) and near Blackfriars  v good cycling specialist physio, does on bike assessments too



Thanks for this - I have booked in to see her on Friday morning!


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

mjr said:


> Fit changes, with fitness and core strength amongst others, but knees can also be aggravated by simple position. There's plenty of tips like the old trick about being roughly able to put your heel on the pedal with leg straight, or these days you might be able to video yourself and see if it looks wrong.
> 
> How did you build up to the recent fifty that injured you? What were the rides over the previous ten days?



This is my Strava training log - https://www.strava.com/athletes/1793924/training/log

My knee was fine after doing 80 miles the week before. Just strange its gone now, I haven't been on my winter bike that much this year - so it must have something to do with the positioning on that bike, this is the one I had a bike fit on thou (but was a couple of years ago)

You can see on my veloviewer that I have never made it through a year without having to stop due to injury - so frustrating - hence why I think my body is not cut out for cycling!
https://veloviewer.com/athlete/1793924/


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

NorthernDave said:


> I caused myself knee problems by grinding away in too high a gear, when I should have dropped it down a couple to spin. I thought that working harder would give me a better work out, and it cost me a month off the bike and it's still not 100% now over a year on.
> And I was told by a physio that around 80% of the cyclists she treats with knee problems are due to poorly set up cleats...



Im definitely not grinding (that sounds wrong!) - my average cadence is around 90, have learnt to spin a high cadence, due to past knee problems.


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

http://www.activ8rehab.co.uk/sports-science.php

Just seen this place near me, might give them a go for a bike fit. Doesn't list the price on the website, so I'm sceptical it will be expensive! Will contact them today!

Bloody knee!!!


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## vickster (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Thanks for this - I have booked in to see her on Friday morning!


Cool. Hope she figures out issue


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## vickster (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> http://www.activ8rehab.co.uk/sports-science.php
> 
> Just seen this place near me, might give them a go for a bike fit. Doesn't list the price on the website, so I'm sceptical it will be expensive! Will contact them today!
> 
> Bloody knee!!!


I'd figure out what's wrong with the knee before chucking £££ at a bike fit. 
Do you have private HC? That'll help facilitate scans etc


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> http://www.activ8rehab.co.uk/sports-science.php
> 
> Just seen this place near me, might give them a go for a bike fit. Doesn't list the price on the website, so I'm sceptical it will be expensive! Will contact them today!
> 
> Bloody knee!!!



It's only £125 so not too bad, will see what the Physio says on Friday before I book the bike fit


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## mjr (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> This is my Strava training log - https://www.strava.com/athletes/1793924/training/log


Log In screen.



Rustybucket said:


> My knee was fine after doing 80 miles the week before. Just strange its gone now, I haven't been on my winter bike that much this year - so it must have something to do with the positioning on that bike, this is the one I had a bike fit on thou (but was a couple of years ago)


So 80 on a different bike a week before, then 50 on Sunday - anything in between?

See what the physio says, but you could check the measurements still match the bike fit, but fit varies a bit over time anyway IMO.



Rustybucket said:


> You can see on my veloviewer that I have never made it through a year without having to stop due to injury - so frustrating - hence why I think my body is not cut out for cycling!
> https://veloviewer.com/athlete/1793924/


"not available" - but I'm trying to understand why you might be having this problem when so many people of so many types cycle. I suspect almost everyone can find some sort of cycling which works for them. Oh well - maybe best wait and see what the physio says if you've some other form of transport to use in the meantime.


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> I'd figure out what's wrong with the knee before chucking £££ at a bike fit.
> Do you have private HC? That'll help facilitate scans etc



Yep - good point
I've got 3 options of bike fit to look at depending on the outcome of Fridays physio visit! 

No unfortunately don't have private health care, regret not taking it now. May look to add it next year!


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## PhilDawson8270 (13 Dec 2016)

Are your feet attached to the pedals? Either with straps or cleats?


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## vickster (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Yep - good point
> I've got 3 options of bike fit to look at depending on the outcome of Fridays physio visit!
> 
> No unfortunately don't have private health care, regret not taking it now. May look to add it next year!


Won't be able to get knee cover unless pay £££ to cover pre existing 

The Physio you are seeing will do an on bike assessment too. £95 I think


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Won't be able to get knee cover unless pay £££ to cover pre existing
> 
> The Physio you are seeing will do an on bike assessment too. £95 I think



Did you get the bike assessment? I've just read up about it on the website, doesn't seem to be a full bike fit thou??


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## vickster (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> Did you get the bike assessment? I've just read up about it on the website, doesn't seem to be a full bike fit thou??


Yes I did. What do you mean by a full bike fit? She assesses position etc on your bike on the turbo, playing particular attention to how the injured part is being used and affected by cycling

She uses no fancy computer jiggery pokery if that's what you mean?


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## Rustybucket (13 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Yes I did. What do you mean by a full bike fit? She assesses position etc on your bike on the turbo, playing particular attention to how the injured part is being used and affected by cycling
> 
> She uses no fancy computer jiggery pokery if that's what you mean?



what if you needed stem changes? did she look into your cleat positioning etc?
im not bothered by fancy computers!


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## vickster (13 Dec 2016)

Rustybucket said:


> what if you needed stem changes? did she look into your cleat positioning etc?
> im not bothered by fancy computers!


She would have told me. I'd had a retul fit previously so I knew the sizing was ok. Got much more confidence from the Physio.

Yes to cleats

She used a gonioneter, tape measure, Allen keys and a knowledge of me, cycling and anatomy

Dk what you expect from a fit? Wait and see what she says about your knee. Could simply need an exercise programme, a few good sports massages and stretching

Alternatively you could have actual damage in the knee?


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## Rustybucket (14 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Alternatively you could have actual damage in the knee?



Bloody hope not! 

I'm looking forward to Friday and finding out what's wrong with it. Can hopefully then get a bike fit sorted.

Thanks for your help and suggestions everyone! 

I've got a 300km and 400km audax planned in for March and April, need to get training!


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## vickster (14 Dec 2016)

Has the knee been examined before as you say you've had ongoing issues with it?


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## Rustybucket (14 Dec 2016)

vickster said:


> Has the knee been examined before as you say you've had ongoing issues with it?



About 3 years ago, just suffering from overuse and weak VMO and tight ITB. I do strength and stretching exercises daily and seems to be ok. 

My knee now mainly hurts from the back so I don't think it's a recurrence or my past problems! We shall see on Friday!


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## dbeattie (18 Dec 2016)

Are your feet and ankles mobile and strong? If not then that might be the cause of pain further along the chain.


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## vickster (18 Dec 2016)

@Rustybucket what did Nicole say?


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## steveindenmark (18 Dec 2016)

Have you tried riding with flat pedals for a while. The clipped in position could be the problem.


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## Doug. (23 Dec 2016)

Is it possible you are doing to long a distance ?
Possibly ride about 25 miles and see how you feel, you can then cycle further or a lesser distance.
If no problems ride a bit further or even slower
The old saying "make haste slowly "often applies.
However, the best of luck.


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## Rustybucket (24 Dec 2016)

Thanks for everyone's help & comments.

I have now had 2 Physio sessions and a bike fit from a sports & medical rehab center. 
The problem has probably arisen from my saddle being approx 0.5cm too high and also my cleat position being a little out - which in turn has pulled my Hamstring.

I've got various strength & stretching exercises to do, to increase the strength in my hamstrings & glutes. I can go for small rides but not too long - approx 2 hours before the Hamstring starts to hurt again.


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## Rustybucket (22 Apr 2017)

Arghhhhhh, my bloody back has now decided not to work!

Probably off the bike for a couple of months minimum. So annoying!


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## vickster (22 Apr 2017)

Back to the Physio 

What have you done to your back that means months off the bike?


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## jefmcg (22 Apr 2017)

Rustybucket said:


> Arghhhhhh, my bloody back has now decided not to work!
> 
> Probably off the bike for a couple of months minimum. So annoying!


Doesn't necessarily rule cycling out. Talk to someone. I've got a friend with a degenerative spine condition, who had surgery a few months ago. She'll never fully recover, but she worked out how to modify her ride to be more upright, and she is able to get to the shops and pool and physio.


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## jefmcg (22 Apr 2017)

dim said:


> (you can have a bike fit done at Halfords by a teenager)


Um, can you? They don't advertise they do it, and they don't usually have a turbo set up. I'd be very surprised if anyone has left a Halfords under the impression they have had a "bike fit".


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## Rustybucket (23 Apr 2017)

Just from sitting at a desk all day! Was about 2 years ago that it flared up again. Now seeing a chiropractor, just as my hamstring was getting better, Sod's law!


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