# Wet Lube clean up



## fraz101 (30 Jan 2022)

So I have a fairly new bike which is in pristine condition. 

I have been using wet lube for the chain and it is making a mess of the frame and it seems impossible to shift the dirty lube stains off the frame. 

What should I use to shift these stubborn marks along the back of the frame?

Thanks


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## ianrauk (30 Jan 2022)

First off. It sounds like you are leaving too much lube on your chain. 
Best practice is after you have lubed the chain, get a rag and run the chain through it to get all the access off.

In regards to oil on the frame, try WD40, white spirit or even a bit of neat washing up liquid.


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## roubaixtuesday (30 Jan 2022)

Small spray of wd40 and rub with a rag is an excellent way of removing oil stains.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2022)

ianrauk said:


> In regards to oil on the frame, try WD40, white spirit or even a bit of neat washing up liquid.



Wouldn’t white spirit start dissolving the paint?


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## ianrauk (30 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Wouldn’t white spirit start dissolving the paint?


I wouldn't have thought so as the paint would be sealed with a clear laquer


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## si_c (30 Jan 2022)

Definitely using too much chain lubricant, it should be more or less dry to the touch when you've finished wiping it down properly, even when using "wet" lube.

To get marks off the frame I use a microfibre cloth and spray WD40 on it and then apply a bit of elbow grease.


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## presta (30 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Wouldn’t white spirit start dissolving the paint?


It's never harmed the Dawes '_Ardaznailz_' paint on my Horizon, but it did soften once when I was using Evo-Stik thinners to remove a smear of Elastoplast adhesive.


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## Peter Salt (30 Jan 2022)

The purpose of using chain lube is to minimise friction between the pins and inside of rollers and inside of inner plates. You don't really need lube on the 'outside'. When applying lube, make sure to hit every roller, give it 2 minutes, and then grab a cloth and wipe the entirety of the chain. Manufacturers usually have an appropriate lube remover/degreaser in their product range if you made a mess.


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## midlife (30 Jan 2022)

Not very environmentally friendly but baby wipes sometimes quite good.


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## Eribiste (30 Jan 2022)

I get on really well with Morgan blue chain cleaner. Not only good for cleaning drive chain components but will deal with your oil infested frame members without doing any damage to paint. Spray on, wait one then wipe or wash off with water.
You'll know now to wipe your chain with a rag after oiling as well, like the other contributors have it.


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## LarryDuff (30 Jan 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Small spray of wd40 and rub with a rag is an excellent way of removing oil stains.


Wd40 also very good for removing bits of tar from your frame too.


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## PaulSB (31 Jan 2022)

A good wash with hot soapy water will remove much of it. Mr Sheen furniture polish to remove any residue (other polish brands are available).

Search for "Mickle Method" on here for an excellent approach to chain cleaning and lubing.


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## fraz101 (28 Feb 2022)

Just to follow on from this

I purchased some muc off dry lube as I tend to really only go out when it’s dry and also wanted to see if it kept my chain cleaner.

I’ve been cleaning and re lubing the chain after every ride, it’s been a couple weeks since I’ve been out as weather up here has been horrendous, I went out yesterday however after around 15 miles I could hear the chain was very dry?

I’m guessing the dry lube had dried up in the time since I lubed and going out yesterday?

Have read a few reviews saying it doesn’t last well at all?


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## fossyant (28 Feb 2022)

PaulSB said:


> A good wash with hot soapy water will remove much of it. Mr Sheen furniture polish to remove any residue (other polish brands are available).
> 
> Search for "Mickle Method" on here for an excellent approach to chain cleaning and lubing.



Mr Sheen is very good !


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## Twilkes (28 Feb 2022)

midlife said:


> Not very environmentally friendly but baby wipes sometimes quite good.


This is a multipack so probably only feasible if you have a baby, but biodegradable wipes are available. (might not want to put them in your garden compost if they're covered in oil though)

https://www.boots.com/boots-baby-biodegradable-768-baby-wipes-10271752


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## nlmkiii (1 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Just to follow on from this
> 
> I purchased some muc off dry lube as I tend to really only go out when it’s dry and also wanted to see if it kept my chain cleaner.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit obsessive about drive train cleanliness and efficiency, but I'm going to try and recommend something much more reasonable for the every day rider! I wouldn't suggest going out waxing until you get a similar level of obsession... but... there are some really good drip lubes out there that could offer a better solution than what you are currently doing.

Highly recommend switching to Squirt lube, or Silca Secret Chain Lube! If you use a good lube and ensure it penetrates well with an effective application then you won't have as much dirt ingress, as it physically won't be able to get in to cause problems. As others have said, once lubed make sure you clean the excess lube off the outside of the chain too. It doesn't add any lubricating benefits, and just attracts dirt which can then ingress in to where it really matters. 

Also just to be anal, make sure you're cleaning your chain effectively. You don't have to give it a deep clean after every ride though, just a quick wipe down. But taking it off and cleaning it using the shaker bottle method every now and then is a very good idea.

Why Squirt / Silca Secret Chain Lube?
Squirt lube is the most commonly recommended (Olly Bridgewood even recommended it on GCN after he was no longer allowed to recommend it on GCN because of sponsorship issues!). It's also relatively cheap compared to other good lubes. Spend longer applying it than other lubes though, 
Silca Secret Chain lube is better because of the titanium disulphide additive, but you'll be fine with both. 

You can go super expensive with lubes, and they are better (and some like Synergetic by Silca are more about ease of application than being better), but perhaps not necessary right now


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## CanucksTraveller (1 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Just to follow on from this
> 
> I purchased some muc off dry lube as I tend to really *only go out when it’s dry *and also wanted to see if it kept my chain cleaner.
> 
> ...



Hi. Just to clear up a potential misunderstanding, dry lube isn't specifically for dry weather, it's just got a drier consistency than "wet" lube which is where the name comes in. Both are fine for wet weather. Dry lube is just more like a wax coating when it sets. 

Personally I find dry lube a bit icky / messy but plenty of riders like it. Maybe you just used a not so good one, but not being a fan I'm not sure which makes are the better ones. It's possible it dried out a bit in the last few weeks I guess, I don't find that's an issue with wet lube / oil.


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## Alex321 (1 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Just to follow on from this
> 
> I purchased some muc off dry lube as I tend to really only go out when it’s dry and also wanted to see if it kept my chain cleaner.
> 
> ...


No, it won't have dried out during that period.

But it will wash off very quickly when riding in the wet - even if it isn't raining, it won't last all that long on wet roads.

The dry lube should keep the chain cleaner in dry weather, because it isn't as sticky, but it is that lack of stickyness that also means it washes off more easily. "Wet" or "dry" lube isn't a reference to whether the lube itself is wet or dry, but rather a reference to the intended conditions for use.


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## MichaelW2 (1 Mar 2022)

Keep WD40 spray away from bearings at the bottom bracket and hubs and also awsy from braking surfaces and pads.
Any solvent on a rag will clean the mess. Best to apply lube to the inside of the chain run, one drop on each articulating join.


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## nlmkiii (2 Mar 2022)

View: https://youtu.be/qrO7TtJpcn0


Watch this guys video if you want a simple idea of why a wax based lube is so good. I'm not sure I agree with him about never giving the chain a full deep clean! But as long as you're keeping on top of wear and replacing when you need to it probably isn't a big issue.

Just, when using a wax based lube, make sure you put a lot of time into making sure the lubricant penetrates deep, particularly the first time. I think a lot of people see lubing the chain as a 30 second job. which it can be. But to do it properly with a wax based lube I would suggest takes more like 10 minutes. Dripping both left and right side of the chain individually, turning the wheels a good amount to make sure it works it's way in, and then spending a solid amount of time cleaning off the excess.


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## DaveM77 (2 Mar 2022)

Baby wipes or Banana milkshake. Used to work a great cleaning my Mini


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## DRM (2 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Just to follow on from this
> 
> I purchased some muc off dry lube as I tend to really only go out when it’s dry and also wanted to see if it kept my chain cleaner.
> 
> ...


Dry lube is hopeless in wet weather, it just washes off, wet lube is what’s needed, dry lube is perfect for use in dry, dusty conditions as the dirt can’t stick to it to make grinding paste


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## nlmkiii (2 Mar 2022)

DRM said:


> Dry lube is hopeless in wet weather, it just washes off, wet lube is what’s needed, dry lube is perfect for use in dry, dusty conditions as the dirt can’t stick to it to make grinding paste


Zero Friction cycling suggest that Dry Lubes are basically all complete garbage. 

This is not the same as a wax lube which leaves a solid residue, which are rated very highly. 

Take a look at this video, it's a very good entry in to it (and an entry in to why I would suggest Silca Secret Chain Lube! Or Squirt if you want to go for a cheaper option)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA9xTnCizuA


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## freiston (3 Mar 2022)

FWIW, I don't worry about my chain much at all. I don't consider myself to be knowledgeable on the "science" but I do believe you can get very carried away with cleaning regimes and that a lot of people, using their bikes in all weather/conditions reach a good balance between doing nothing and being obsessive. What I say is my opinion and might have been said before, including in this thread (and probably refuted before too).

Wet mucky roads will get your chain mucky. Dry dusty roads will get your chain mucky. A clean chain that's got very wet stands a good chance of rusting when you put the bike away and leave it overnight. A mucky chain will wear out and wear cogs out more quickly than a clean chain. Mucky sprockets will contaminate a chain and vice versa.

The lube needs to be in the rollers to do its job. It doesn't need to be on the plates. Lube on the plates helps attract muck. When you oil a chain, you just need a drop on each roller. Let it work in then give the chain a good wipe with a rag to get excess lube off the plates. This has been covered earlier in the thread and with reference to the "Mickle method". Personally, I don't reckon this needs doing that often (certainly not after every ride) but I'm sure that many will disagree.

A regular wipe will help keep the chain clean. A spray of WD40/GT85 on a rag/the chain will help keep it clean but might clean the oil off too - so a re-oil afterwards can help.

If you get a "wet" chain, either from the rain or from the hose/bucket, do whatever you think will shake as much water off as possible, give it a spray (on the rag or directly) with WD40/GT85 and give it a good wipe. Oil it if you think it needs it.

If you think your chain is getting too grubby to be "cleaned" as per above, take it off and give it a going over with degreaser and an old toothbrush, rinse well (presuming you've used a water based degreaser), treat it with WD40/GT85, rag well and put it back on the bike and oil it (or miss out the WD40/GT85, get it as dry as possible and put it on the bike & oil asap).

The oil I use isn't sold any more but if I were to buy some today, it would be Weldtite TF2 Performance All-Weather Lubricant - it gets good reviews including on forums.

Remember to clean your sprockets (including those in the derailleur arm) too.

That should keep your chain reasonably clean and in good condition without it becoming a massive chore, worry or an activity in its own right. It shouldn't make a mess of your frame either.


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## GuyBoden (3 Mar 2022)

Get a pan, a few medium size wax candles.
Melt the candles in the pan.
Make sure the candles are completely melted.
Add a bit of oil. (Light general purpose oil will do, car gear oil is better.)
Gently stir the mixture.
Drop the chain into the pan. (A new chain is best.)
Leave until the chain is soaked through with the wax/oil liquid.
The wax/oil liquid easily ignites in the pan.
This fire will eventually spread to the whole kitchen.
Phone the Fire Brigade.
Explain to the Police how the fire started.
Inform your house insurance agent about the incident.
House insurance blame you for stupidity and avoid paying any insurance, if they can.


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## Tenkaykev (3 Mar 2022)

I tend to use Wilko wet lube and the “ Mickle Method” I’ve got a cheap and cheerful ultrasonic cleaner that I’ve used to deep clean the occasional chain. Before I retired the job I did sometimes involved using a vacuum impregnation chamber for applying varnish to the windings of electric motors. The motor is put in the chamber, switch on vac pump to evacuate all the air and create a vacuum, then open a valve to a container with varnish that becomes an aerosol and impregnates all the voids in the windings.
Out of curiosity I looked on Amazon and sure enough, you can buy a small vacuum system that would be suitable for bike chains if you substitute oil for varnish. Completely over the top but doable if you want to ensure the lubricant gets to where it’s needed.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Mar 2022)

For chain obsessives, a useful strategy is to run 2 chains. Switch your dirty chain for a clean one. Put the dirty chain into a jar of some cleaning fluid. Clean at your leisure 
You need a reusable quick link.


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## Gillstay (3 Mar 2022)

I just use chainsaw oil. Am I very wrong ? Biodegradable of course and buy it by the gallon.


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## Blue Hills (3 Mar 2022)

Tenkaykev said:


> I tend to use Wilko wet lube


I often use it - and my normal lube is the TF2 stuff recommended upthread by @freiston - I bought a litre of it a while ago for around a tenner.
In truth I wonder if they are basically the same thing.
I've used more apparently wondrous magical lubes in the past but now with much of my cycling kit try to keep things simple.


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## Blue Hills (3 Mar 2022)

Gillstay said:


> I just use chainsaw oil. Am I very wrong ? Biodegradable of course and buy it by the gallon.


Does anyone actually use Chainsaw oil for chainsaws?
Can't help wondering if all those lumberjacks spend their evenings discussing the merits of the latest waxy synthetic magical bike oil.


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## nlmkiii (3 Mar 2022)

If you have a bike you care about I can't see a good reason to just buy any old lube. There are people out there spending £3k+ on a bike and then shoving any old lube on, it's bizarre! 99% of wet lubes are such high maintenance and high friction (which means high knock-on costs). I can't see a good reason for a wet lube, even on an old commuter... I wouldn't even put it on my kid's Frog bike!!! 

Wet lubes seem to offer the worst of all worlds. Perhaps only beaten by dry lubes!

Chuck them all in the bin.


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## Alex321 (3 Mar 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Does anyone actually use Chainsaw oil for chainsaws?


Yes.

But it is designed to be fed into the chain as it runs - you fill a reservoir in the chainsaw which drip feeds it onto the chain. It isn't designed to be just put on the chain and then left - though a bicycle chain is, of course, moving much more slowly.


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## Cerdic (6 Mar 2022)

nlmkiii said:


> If you have a bike you care about I can't see a good reason to just buy any old lube. There are people out there spending £3k+ on a bike and then shoving any old lube on, it's bizarre! 99% of wet lubes are such high maintenance and high friction (which means high knock-on costs). I can't see a good reason for a wet lube, even on an old commuter... I wouldn't even put it on my kid's Frog bike!!!
> 
> Wet lubes seem to offer the worst of all worlds. Perhaps only beaten by dry lubes!
> 
> Chuck them all in the bin.



What would you recommend instead?


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## PaulSB (6 Mar 2022)

Squirt lube. Great stuff.


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## nlmkiii (6 Mar 2022)

Cerdic said:


> What would you recommend instead?


the most commonly recommended will be older style wax emulsion lubes, like Squirt / Smoove. And they are very good but they have initial penetration issues due to high viscosity. Great option if you put the effort in on the first application though (Take chain off, overload with wax, massage in for 20 minutes!), and you more than make up for that initial up front work by very low maintenance after. 

I think they have been left in the dust by more modern wax emulsions though, like Silca Super Secret, or Ceramic Speed UFO drip. These look expensive but considering how much longer your drive train lasts with them, they actually work out cheaper.

But personally, I honestly can't see a reason not to immersive wax, it's the best value AND the easiest.
£15 for a slow cooker plus £20-£40 a wax which will last 20000km is a touch above a £5 MucOff lube, but when you run 2 chains and they last the 20000km rather than 3000km too you're saving money.
Because you don't have to spend ages cleaning (and don't have to use solvent to clean) you end up with such an easy process too, even more so if you run two chains. Take off chain, put on fresh chain. Put old chain in pot, turn on pot. Come back anywhere from an hour to a few days later, shake chain a bit, hang it up, turn off pot, and repeat. It's like, so so so so easy.
Make it even easier by topping up a waxed chain instead of changing after dry rides with something like Silca Super Secret, and only changing after wet rides, or after 1000-2000km. It's just indescribably easy.

So much easier than using a traditional lube, which leaves you with a horrible set of solvent cleaning stages that inevitably means you are taking far more time for the privilege of having a chain with dirty insides that has to be changed about 5x as fast. 

BUT, most people won't do it still  So just use Squirt / Smoove / Silca Super Secret / CeramicSpeed UFO.... or one of a few other options.


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## nlmkiii (6 Mar 2022)

Look at the differences below from Zero Friction Cycling. The test schedule is as follows:
All chains ran at 250W, and reapplied twice during each 1000km cycle.
1000km - no contamination
1000km - dry contaminants added at regular intervals
1000km - no contaminants
1000km - wet contamination added at regular intervals
1000km - no contaminants
1000km - extreme wet contaminants, significantly more and at more regular intervals

Silca Hot Melt Wax was still only 27.4% worn after all 6 stages (i.e., 27.4% of the way to 0.5% extension!), no wet lube has ever made it past stage 4.

MucOff was 145.4% worn (i.e. way way past worn) after only 2000km.... at the same point Silca Hot Melt was 1.7% worn. 











Squirt was at 109% after 4000km, BUT it was applied using manufacturers recommended application. Squirt, with it's penetration issues, make that application awful. If you want to use it, spend 20 minutes at the start and you'll get thousands of km's out of the chain (plus it's low maintenance then as you can just wipe down and keep going, you don't need to solvent clean!).

I suspect i'm going waaayyyyy too far in to all this  I just very much enjoy drive train stuff. We can't all have Dura Ace bikes, but we can have super smooth drive trains with chains that last for 15000-20000kms


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## fraz101 (6 Mar 2022)

Where can I learn more about immersive wax techniques


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## nlmkiii (6 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Where can I learn more about immersive wax techniques


Zero Friction Cycling ran by Adam Kerin is the best IMO, gives the most well researched advice, but he's pragmatic too and explains just how easy immersive waxing is. 

Check out his YouTube too. Anything he doesn't know isn't worth knowing!

This is vid is the "how to". It's worth watching this over some of the shorter ones which can offer bad or incomplete advice. If it looks worth doing, watch his other stuff too  


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmriYX76NE


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## PaulSB (7 Mar 2022)

I have a buddy who swears by immersive waxing and takes the time to do this. I know my nature and would start full of enthusiasm and after 2-3 goes would lose that enthusiasm. It's a no for me.

I agree with much of what @nlmposts and have always believed good chain maintenance is very important. I also feel keeping the whole bike clean is important for easier riding and improving the lifespan of the entire bike.

it does surprise me to read Squirt is tricky to set up. I always wipe down the chain and lube straight after a ride. My cleaning routine when the bike needs it, not after every ride, is:

clean bike
clean chain as needed
apply Squirt
leave for 20-30 minutes while I tidy up etc.
second application if needed
wipe off excess
Not exactly labour intensive.


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## jdh72 (7 Mar 2022)

Wonder wipes for cleaning. 

I stopped using wet lube years ago, makes a terrible mess. 

Favourite is Squirt, dry lube. Difference compared to oil based wet lubes is amazing. 
Lube after every ride. Use 365 days including in rain n snow. Take a small dropper bottle of squirt on all overnighters.


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## fraz101 (7 Mar 2022)

nlmkiii said:


> Zero Friction Cycling ran by Adam Kerin is the best IMO, gives the most well researched advice, but he's pragmatic too and explains just how easy immersive waxing is.
> 
> Check out his YouTube too. Anything he doesn't know isn't worth knowing!
> 
> ...



Watched the video so to clarify. 

Buy a slow cooker, buy some immersive wax, heat the wax,dip chain for a while,leave to set,refit chain. 

Do you clean chain before immersing? 
Do you wipe chain after each ride? 
Interesting and tempting to give it a try.


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## nlmkiii (8 Mar 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I have a buddy who swears by immersive waxing and takes the time to do this. I know my nature and would start full of enthusiasm and after 2-3 goes would lose that enthusiasm. It's a no for me.
> 
> I agree with much of what @nlmposts and have always believed good chain maintenance is very important. I also feel keeping the whole bike clean is important for easier riding and improving the lifespan of the entire bike.
> 
> ...



This is why I still recommend Squirt a lot. It’s very low maintenance. I do think it’s worth the 20 minutes of prep at the start as it will double the longevity (and reduce friction) of the chain. My day 1 prep of a squirt chain is:

Cleaning part (same for all new chains to remove factory grease / glue)
- White spirit, shake, refill shake and keep going til clear. Leave to soak at the end just to make sure. Needs 2-3 shakes on most. But 7-8 on SRAM as it’s glue.
- Put used white spirit in jar back of garage ready for a yearly solvent disposal run 
- shake in IPA, leave for a bit. Shake again then hang to dry.

Then the lubing part:
- Put chain on a dinner plate
- Pour 15ml of Squirt on
- Massage chain and keep turning it to pick up all the Squirt on the plate. I go for 20 minutes whilst watching TV, but less is certainly fine
- leave to dry on a new plate overnight
- wipe down

Alternative would be to just immerse in Squirt, but once it’s been out in the air it isn’t so good so the above is far cheaper and has a similar effect.


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## nlmkiii (8 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Watched the video so to clarify.
> 
> Buy a slow cooker, buy some immersive wax, heat the wax,dip chain for a while,leave to set,refit chain.
> 
> ...


Swish chain once immersed too. You want to leave it there for 5 minutes minimum too to ensure chain warms up and so gets full penetration.

Correct - You don’t need to do any particular clean before immersing, just the normal wipe down. If it’s particularly dirty then you can swish it in boiling water a few times, but no solvents needed, and the wax will last 30-50 immersions anyway even without cleaning. 

Yes wipe down after each ride. 

Personally I’d advise getting one of the good drip lubes to top up after dry rides as well, as it is nearly as effective and does reduce your workload. Just means you only have to full immerse after wet rides or 1-2000 km. 

Also running 2 chains will make things far easier.


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## nlmkiii (9 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-chain-lube.217068/#post-4765292
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/l...in-what-do-you-use.228046/page-4#post-5083429


What Yellow Saddle said just isn't true in any way, shape or form. 

Literally everything about it is completely wrong.


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## nlmkiii (9 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> Yellow Saddle is saying that Wax gets forced out of the bushes and doesn't flow back, thus not providing adequate lubrication.
> 
> As an Engineer, I could be persuaded to agree with your point of view, if you had some facts to discredit the following statement by Yellow Saddle: "The reason why greases and waxes are not good chain lubrication is because they cannot flow back after being forced out of a pressure face. Oil does that very well"



I think the question needs to be rephrased. The argument of "oil flows back, and that is good" is just an assumption. He would need to show that oil flows back quickly enough (under such pressure it seems unlikely that such a thin layer would flow back quickly enough when ran at an ordinary cadence), and that IF it does so it is in fact a useful property anyway. Sure it sounds intuitive but as you are an engineer I'm sure you'll have hundreds of examples of where what seems intuitive is actually completely wrong.
Note that the downside of such a mechanism where oil flows back is that any dirt caught on the outside ALSO flows into the important parts. This is intuitively bad if there are other methods where we are not creating a flow of dirt from outside the chain to inside the chain. 

With modern waxes it is often NOT the wax itself that is creating the key lubrication anyway, rather it is the additives that are creating a nanolayer and hence creating highly slippery hard wearing surfaces. These are solids that aren't just worn away so quickly. They do need replenishing, but the surrounding waxes do indeed replenish these chemicals. Perhaps the lack of an actual flow here, and the dirt staying on the outside of the chain is a key factor in why waxes are so much better?

BUT what really matters is not what how we intuitively view the differences between oils and waxes or anything else. The only question that really matters is "What actually works?".
And the answer to this question by many magnitudes of order is a high quality correctly applied wax. 

With wax, whether it flows back or not, we can see from tests that the chains wear at a much lower rate. With modern waxes you also have additives that create a microscopic nanolayer which is replenished from surrounding wax (titanium disulphide, molybdenum, graphene etc.). This stuff DOES flow back to the important parts. The mechanism by which the nano-particles flow back, I am unsure of. I believe it is just because with so much wax inside the chain it just kinda keeps getting everywhere. Small movements (particularly in the slack part at the bottom of the chain cycle) just recoat everything. And because the waxes are so effective it doesn't take much, but I could be wrong on that fact. 



The other things he said about "the blackness is just bits of chain" is just utter nonsense, and I'm sure anyone can see that. It's very clear that in a 100km ride you aren't getting such huge amounts of chain wear that it has diffused onto the outer parts of the chain to the extent that it is completely visible. Can you imagine how much chain wear that would take! We'd all be going through chains like bottles of water. Our saddle bags would have an inner tube, CO2 canister, and 4 chains! 
The black stuff is just dirt from the road, all of it, literally none of the visible dirt is metal particles.


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## iluvmybike (9 Mar 2022)

Gosh, poor old OP only asked how to get some mucky lubes stains off their frame and it ends up in an argument about wax dlows!!!


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## fraz101 (9 Mar 2022)

iluvmybike said:


> Gosh, poor old OP only asked how to get some mucky lubes stains off their frame and it ends up in an argument about wax dlows!!!


I’m enjoying the debate…..keep going lads.


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## iluvmybike (9 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> I’m enjoying the debate…..keep going lads.


and lasses...


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## nlmkiii (9 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I'll give the Wax method another try, using :
> 
> PTFE Powder 50g + Refined Paraffin Wax 500g


Seems okay if you get the wax right, but with Molten Speed Wax sitting at £20 a pack it’s just as cost effective to buy that and it’s probably the second best wax on the market. 

I’d guess that if giving it a go it’s safest to try a well known product as that way you know you haven’t made any mistakes so if it doesn’t work out it’s definitely not that. It sounds like you know what you’re doing though in picking the right base wax, so maybe you’re all good!


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## fraz101 (9 Mar 2022)

nlmkiii said:


> Seems okay if you get the wax right, but with Molten Speed Wax sitting at £20 a pack it’s just as cost effective to buy that and it’s probably the second best wax on the market.
> 
> I’d guess that if giving it a go it’s safest to try a well known product as that way you know you haven’t made any mistakes so if it doesn’t work out it’s definitely not that. It sounds like you know what you’re doing though in picking the right base wax, so maybe you’re all good!


Link to a decent priced wax melt cooker?


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## nlmkiii (9 Mar 2022)

fraz101 said:


> Link to a decent priced wax melt cooker?


Search crockpot slow cooker on Amazon. 1.8L is fine. Should cost about £15

You could get the 3L too for easier swishing. Takes up more space in the workshop though!


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## nlmkiii (10 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I was thinking about getting this slow cooker from Argos 1.8 Litres for £15. (Looks similar to the Amazon item.)
> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9306561?clickSR=slp:term:crock pot slow cooker:1:24:1
> 
> I've ordered the PTFE Powder 50g + Refined Paraffin Wax 500g from £16.75
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325089309670


Yeah that’s the same one. It’s the one I have  

Waxing my 7 year old daughters frog bike chain tonight. Some say it’s overkill but it seems so much easier to me  

Hope it goes well!


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## nlmkiii (10 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I was thinking about getting this slow cooker from Argos 1.8 Litres for £15. (Looks similar to the Amazon item.)
> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9306561?clickSR=slp:term:crock pot slow cooker:1:24:1
> 
> I've ordered the PTFE Powder 50g + Refined Paraffin Wax 500g from £16.75
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325089309670


One other thing is to make sure you do it on a new chain. Then prep the hell out of that chain with white spirit in shaker bottles, and then rinse through with a couple of shakes in isopropyl alcohol. 

It’s almost impossible to get an old chain clean enough for the wax to work properly. (Maybe with a lot of work and an ultrasonic, but new is better).


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## nlmkiii (16 Mar 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I soaked the new chain in white spirit multiple times and left it soaking for a few days, then rinsed it in meths and wiped it clean.
> Melted the 500g wax in the new slow cooker and added the 50g PTFE powder. (Took over an hour to melt.)
> Stirred the mixture, put the new chain in the pot on a wire and swished it about.
> Left it for 1/4 hour and swished the chain about again.
> ...



yeah this looks great. The only difference for me is not shaking off the excess wax (same reason as you said with wanting to keep as much in as possible), but I think it's a minor detail. Looks great.

You should see very different results as to with candle wax and oil.


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## T4tomo (16 Mar 2022)

nlmkiii said:


> yeah this looks great. The only difference for me is not shaking off the excess wax (same reason as you said with wanting to keep as much in as possible), but I think it's a minor detail. Looks great.
> 
> You should see very different results as to with candle wax and oil.


Have you actually started using the melted wax method yet, as about a month ago you were just considering it and regurgitating the stuff you'd read on the internet.


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## Tenkaykev (16 Mar 2022)

T4tomo said:


> Have you actually started using the melted wax method yet, as about a month ago you were just considering it and regurgitating the stuff you'd read on the internet.


You might say that he’d been waxing lyrical about it…


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## Paulus (16 Mar 2022)

I clean my chain with white spirit to get all the crud off, a good through wipe down and then a lube on each pin with this. Has worked well for 60 odd years.


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## nlmkiii (18 Mar 2022)

T4tomo said:


> Have you actually started using the melted wax method yet, as about a month ago you were just considering it and regurgitating the stuff you'd read on the internet.


Regurgitating stuff read off the internet is a bit nonsense. "quoting science" is probably more apt.

but yes I've been doing it. It's been great.


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## harlechjoe (19 Mar 2022)

Yep, you're putting too much lube on the chain. Top tips:


I remove mess from the chain stays with a baby wipe.
 Once a month I run my chain through a chain bath which helps remove detritus. There is little point in putting lube on top of dirt.
Enjoy your Cycling !


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## I like Skol (12 Apr 2022)

Somehow have avoided whole pages of this thread, but just got up to date now.

As a lifelong wetlube'r I do have one problem with the hot wax system on a practicality front.


nlmkiii said:


> Just means you only have to full immerse after wet rides


So that would be every other commute then? This is Manchester commuting, bike and rider can arrive home dripping wet and covered in road grime (despite mudguards which strangely offer no protection from the water that falls out of the sky). I think on top of a 12hr shift that equates to a 14+hr day including the commute it would be somewhat a faff to be swapping chains every few days, not to mention the cost of continually powering the crock pot.

I think my non-obsessive wet lube regime with a chain life of 1.5-2k is a fair compromise in the real world.

Maybe the hot wax treatment is fine for a leisure rider that only really rides on sunny Sundays in summer? Can't see it working for winter commuters.


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## Pokitren (17 May 2022)

Paulus said:


> I clean my chain with white spirit to get all the crud off, a good through wipe down and then a lube on each pin with this. Has worked well for 60 odd years.
> View attachment 635641


I've never done so meticulously because I didn't see the need for it. I just lubricated the sprocket and a little on the chain - then cranked it, and the oil distributed itself. Need to try it again on your recommendation since you say it's been working for 60+ years


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## fraz101 (18 May 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> One of the biggest benefits of using a waxed chain is it is very clean, so no oily marks on your hands/clothes/bike/car/carpet/house/tea cup/dog/cat/goldfish/children/handlebar tape etc.



When you say a waxed chain do you mean heated wax,chain dipped method? Or liquid wax applied to each link?

I’m still pondering the dipped method when I need a new chain.


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## fraz101 (18 May 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> Waxed, see: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/wet-lube-clean-up.283023/page-4#post-6688061



What’s your cleaning routine? No re lube for how long?


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## fraz101 (18 May 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> I'm rewaxing my chain every 250(ish) miles.



Ok. How about in between


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