# Are cats sickly little beasts?



## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

I don't own one. and I'm not a big fan of the species. I seem to have a large number of friends who spend vast amounts of money at the veterinary surgeon so that their unhealthy feline monsters they can continue to crap in secret corners. Seems rum to me.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Aug 2021)

When i look at my small town's facebook page there are three questions frequently asked. Which take-away do you recommend, where can i get my nails done and has anyone seen my lost cat.


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## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> When i look at my small town's facebook page there are three questions frequently asked. Which take-away do you recommend, where can i get my nails done and has anyone seen my lost cat.


I've no idea about their map reading skills but they seem to home in on the premises of rather expensive vets. Could it be that their owners are faintly deluded?


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## Accy cyclist (13 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> on the premises of rather expensive vets


I've yet to find a cheap one.🙁


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## Edwardoka (13 Aug 2021)

Cats are *extremely* good at hiding illness and pain, which is why by the time intervention is required, it tends to be quite expensive.
I quite like most cats. Humans, not so much. And no, it's not the toxoplasma gondii telling me to say that.


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## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

The cat over the road was savaged by the cat next door. It cost £2000 to get fixed. They didn't have the luxury of concealing their " hurt ". The owner of the victim never made a fuss.

Their owners are entirely bonkers.


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## KnittyNorah (13 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> I don't own one. and I'm not a big fan of the species. I seem to have a large number of friends who spend vast amounts of money at the veterinary surgeon so that their unhealthy feline monsters they can continue to crap in secret corners. Seems rum to me.



I don't have a cat at present, but I've had them on and off throughout my adult life, They're fairly trouble-free in my experience; there's a bit of expense initially - spaying or castration and vaccination - then regular worm and flea treatments throughout their life, and maybe a flurry of expense towards the end of it, often because they need a special diet and/or regular medication for their last few years. Much cheaper to 'run' than most dogs.


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## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> I don't have a cat at present, but I've had them on and off throughout my adult life, They're fairly trouble-free in my experience; there's a bit of expense initially - spaying or castration and vaccination - then regular worm and flea treatments throughout their life, and maybe a flurry of expense towards the end of it, often because they need a special diet and/or regular medication for their last few years. Much cheaper to 'run' than most dogs.


Don't you think that dogs are less complicated? Doesn't a cat pissing in your headphones lose it's charm after a while?


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## Edwardoka (13 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Don't you think that dogs are less complicated? Doesn't a cat pissing in your headphones lose it's charm after a while?


Hmm, I think we're getting somewhere here... why are your headphones in the litter tray?


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## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> Hmm, I think we're getting somewhere here... why are your headphones in the litter tray?


I stumbled on an obscure website.


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## HMS_Dave (13 Aug 2021)

My mom always had a cat until very recently. I grew up with them. Im not fussed either way with them really. Which is likely what they think of their owners. When i left home i had dogs. But, I have had cats now for just over a year, not my doing... The household started with one. Then one day it started meowing at me and i had no idea what was up with it, everyone else was in bed, so i went to bed and told myself i would deal with it tomorrow... Quite a shock then to wake up and find it had multiplied and had a litter of 5 kittens! Fast forward to now, we kept 3 of them. 

On the issue of their health, other than neutering and microchipping (all of our cats are now) oh and flea and worming cat ownership has been relatively painless on the wallet. Even going back to when i was a kid. My parents never had issues with their cats. Other than a litter they had one which was a grey male. Apparently, they are very susceptible to tumours which took him at a young age.


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## KnittyNorah (13 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Don't you think that dogs are less complicated? Doesn't a cat pissing in your headphones lose it's charm after a while?


I've often had both a cat and a dog at the same time, and cats are far simpler, less trouble and far less 'work' than a dog. Except when they climb up the Christmas tree and make it fall over _onto _the dog LOL! I've never had a cat pee in my headphones - but I have had a dog chew them up ...


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## FrankCrank (13 Aug 2021)

We have a small dog, but don't own a cat. Neighbours cats wander into our garden from time to time, leaving their scented calling cards as they go. Quite happy with this arrangement, as it might persuade the rats to go elsewhere. Would like to have our own cat, but the dog is spoiled and wouldn't allow it. We also have 2 squirrels that visit our garden regularly. Vet bills, as you might imagine, are nothing to be feared here


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## slowmotion (13 Aug 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> We have a small dog, but don't own a cat. Neighbours cats wander into our garden from time to time, leaving their scented calling cards as they go. Quite happy with this arrangement, as it might persuade the rats to go elsewhere. Would like to have our own cat, but the dog is spoiled and wouldn't allow it. We also have 2 squirrels that visit our garden regularly. Vet bills, as you might imagine, are nothing to be feared here


It sounds like your dog has absolutely the right idea. Could I send a biscuit or a small savoury snack?


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## Blue Hills (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> I quite like most cats. Humans, not so much.


Don't understand to be honest.
God help us all if we were surrounded by a world of cat-like humans.
Be bloody lonely for a start.
In my opinion.


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## PeteXXX (13 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Don't understand to be honest.
> God help us all if we were surrounded by a world of cat-like humans.
> Be bloody lonely for a start.
> In my opinion.


But think of the mess in all of the flower beds!!


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Their owners are entirely bonkers.



We've only got 4 now.


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## vickster (13 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> We've only got 4 now.


QED


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## gbb (13 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> When i look at my small town's facebook page there are three questions frequently asked. Which take-away do you recommend, where can i get my nails done and has anyone seen my lost cat.


I see that too (anyone seen this cat ?)
For chrissakes, they're quite capable of looking after themselves and bear allegiance to no-one . 
Day after day In our local FB page, you'll see pictures of ungrateful cats and pleading messages from hapless 'owners'.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Dogs are much more expensive at the vets than cats. Our 4 are house cats, 3 'posh ones' - yes who pays bloody money for a cat - MrsF , not once but 3 times. The other a rescue with no teeth.

They have a large cat run, so deposit their present's in our garden, not others - the run has lots of ledges, and one part has chippings in where they go to do their business, or indeed, they come back in to do a poop. The 'not so funny' part is once one 'goes' the rest follow, so you spend about half an hour disposing of poop from the litter tray.

Oh and they are bloody fussy with food, or at least the rescue is. He loves bacon, cheese, chicken etc, and Felix As Good as it Looks. The posh cats will actually eat most cat food, so long as it's not from a tin, but aren't that bothered about 'human' food.


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## ClichéGuevara (13 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Don't understand to be honest.
> God help us all if we were surrounded by a world of cat-like humans.
> Be bloody lonely for a start.
> In my opinion.



I'm very much a cat lover, as I favour their independence over the dumb obedience and neediness of dogs, however, I did hear a comment from a psychopath talking about people trying to rehabilitate others of his ilk, and he described his condition as being 'like a cat in a world full of mice'.

So I say as a cat lover, a world full of cat like humans doesn't sound like a nice place.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Look at this lot...


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

As for sickly, they do vomit hairballs relatively often, or when they get too greedy. As animals though, they rarely get ill.


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## welsh dragon (13 Aug 2021)

My cat died a long time ago from kidney failure. I have not had any pets since then as A. I don't want to have to spend money feeding one. B I don't want to have to get home because it's been on its own all day. C. I don't want to have to clean up after one. And D I don't want to have to spend stupid Amounts of money on one. 

But each to his or her own. If you want one, can aford one that's it. It's your business .


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## vickster (13 Aug 2021)

My cat (even with a chronic health condition) is a lot cheaper to maintain than a child (or heaven forbid multiple children), far less needy and demanding, and won't live nearly as long as most children so a much shorter term expense


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## Bazzer (13 Aug 2021)

I don't mind people spending money on their pets. I do however object to them in my garden because they CBA keep them under control.


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## figbat (13 Aug 2021)

We had two sibling cats until a few years ago. One was diagnosed with a heart and lung disorder as a kitten, most likely as a consequence of having contracted cat flu. The other was healthy for most of her life. However, neither needed any serious vetinary intervention for most of their lives until they got old and developed the usual kidney issues, which was mostly controlled through diet. One made it to 18, the other almost 20. We didn’t insure them and never had any eye-watering vets’ bills.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Leo, our ginger ninja had cat flu - the charity hadn't checked him out correctly, and we had to have a lot of blood tests. Fortunately it wasn't more serious, but he had bad gingivitus, and the vet recommended having his teeth out. You can't cure cat flu, only treat the symptoms. Anyway, all teeth out, grand total £1k with blood tests etc. He's been fit as a fiddle since and is now 4. Not had any issues with cat flu, not did it pass to the kittens when they arrived (all vaxxed). We insure the others, but can't insure Leo, but he has a 'health' plan.


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## Tenkaykev (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> Hmm, I think we're getting somewhere here... why are your headphones in the litter tray?


He must be “ Fat Freddy” of the fantastic furry freak brothers 😁


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## KnittyNorah (13 Aug 2021)

gbb said:


> For chrissakes, they're quite capable of looking after themselves and bear allegiance to no-one .



Then how do you explain all those knifed cats which fell victim to the Brighton cat killer? They clearly couldn't 'look after themselves'. If the cats in Brighton owed no allegiance to anyone, why did so many of them manage to crawl back towards their home while seriously or even fatally injured?

There are weirdos like that all over the place; cats, to their misfortune, seem to be 'attractive' to that sort of subhuman. I lived in a little village which had had one before I moved there - he was hounded out of the place _many _years ago, went to live in a nearby town and started up his nasty tricks again ...


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## welsh dragon (13 Aug 2021)

Bazzer said:


> I don't mind people spending money on their pets. I do however object to them in my garden because they CBA keep them under control.


Cats and controlling them are at odds with each other I am afraid.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Cats and controlling them are at odds with each other I am afraid.



Same with dogs, they can't control their stupid humans !


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## Blue Hills (13 Aug 2021)

gbb said:


> Day after day In our local FB page, you'll see pictures of ungrateful cats and pleading messages from hapless 'owners'.


Not disputing your central point about a certain lack of cat empathy with cats and, yep, I would guess that a fair proportion of these "lost" cats have just decided to sod off to some provider they prefer* but would love to see some of your pics of ungrateful cats/supercilious cats etc.

* Has there ever been any research into what proportion of cats are really lost/missing/perished or has it been done and supressed?


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## Mo1959 (13 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Not disputing your central point about a certain lack of cat empathy with cats and, yep, I would guess that a fair proportion of these "lost" cats have just decided to sod off to some provider they prefer* but would love to see some of your pics of ungrateful cats/supercilious cats etc.
> 
> * Has there ever been any research into what proportion of cats are really lost/missing/perished or has it been done and supressed?


The couple that moved in next door 18 months ago originally had 1 dog and 2 cats. They got another puppy and allowed the dogs to take over and hound the cats until first one buggered off and I think found another home and now Hamish, the lovely ginger is in the process of doing the same I think. He was sitting in my garden a lot and meowing but obviously too scared to go across to his own house. When they put a new door in recently, they didn’t bother with a cat flap this time so I think it suits them to just let the cats disappear now that they seem besotted with their yapping dogs. Used to break my heart to see them sitting there looking abandoned and confused. Hope they both find someone who has taken them in and shown them some love.


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## vickster (13 Aug 2021)

My cat was a rescue, unneutered male, no chip. Neutering and especially chipping will lessen the chances of wandering (if the owner actually wants them to stay).

My cat had a bit of a bromance with another slightly bedraggled ginger a few years ago who used to come to my garden looking for company (and probably food, he was a greedy so and so). Thought might be stray, so took him to my vet, had him scanned, actually lived a few roads away, so got in contact. I think those owners had recently got a dog so poor Simba was hanging out elsewhere. I think one of their neighbours took him in in the end


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## Mo1959 (13 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> My cat was a rescue, unneutered male, no chip. Neutering and especially chipping will lessen the chances of wandering (if the owner actually wants them to stay).
> 
> My cat had a bit of a bromance with another slightly bedraggled ginger a few years ago who used to come to my garden looking for company (and probably food, he was a greedy so and so). Thought might be stray, so took him to my vet, had him scanned, actually lived a few roads away, so got in contact. I think those owners had recently got a dog so poor Simba was hanging out elsewhere. I think one of their neighbours took him in in the end


Sad. It’s one of my pet (excuse the pun) hates when animals get neglected or abandoned when something else comes along, be it kids or another pet.


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## Arrowfoot (13 Aug 2021)

We have a relative that loves her cats. Over the years, some have gone missing (someone in the neighbourhood had offered better treats). When they fall ill or get hit by a car they managed to get back to the house and off to the vet to be fixed. In the case of one of her cats, I had seen it in front of the same house on many occasions and nearly two years later came back with a broken leg. If I had not seen it with my eyes, I would not have believed it.


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## MartinQ (13 Aug 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Cats and controlling them are at odds with each other I am afraid.



Tbf, cats do a good job of controlling their owners.


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## purpan (13 Aug 2021)

My cat whacked me in the vet’s surgery once and I had to be treated by the vet. I came away with a nice bandage, decorated with little dog paw designs, over my hand.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Aug 2021)

gbb said:


> I see that too (anyone seen this cat ?)
> For chrissakes, they're quite capable of looking after themselves and bear allegiance to no-one .
> *Day after day In our local FB page, you'll see pictures of ungrateful cats and pleading messages from hapless 'owners'.*



This is why i wouldn't have a cat. Well,living in an upstairs flat and having a dog doesn't help, but i couldn't put up with the worry of where he/she is and will he/she not come home.


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## KnittyNorah (13 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> i couldn't put up with the worry of where he/she is and will he/she not come home.


It's a constant adrenaline surge!

But seriously, that's just one of the reasons why, in some countries, the 'indoors-only' cat phenomenon is so prevalent. Personally I don't think it'd be tolerated by many/most 'normal' (ie non-pedigree) cats here in the UK, but if they've been bred for several generations as indoor cats only, those that are desperate to escape at any cost will do so and the ones that remain and get bred from are probably OK with only being indoors as long as they never get a taste for 'real life'.

When I lived in the Middle East, the Westerners compound was divided almost into two halves - Europeans who generally let their cats out, and Americans who generally kept their cats in (until they escaped ...). 
My Tiger was just such an escapee; he moved in with me after leaving his original 'owner' who had lavished love, care and attention on him, had him vaccinated, neutered, etc etc. He simply would not go back to her; outdoors he would purr and wind himself round her legs but he would not let her pick him up or even attempt to pick him up - although I could pick him up, swing him about and generally fool around with him! He came back to the UK with me, immediately claimed a place on my mother's lap after his quarantine was over and rarely went out because he didn't like the cold and wet - but he'd check daily whether or not I was going to let him out. I think if I'd've refused, he'd have planned an escape ...

Elsewhere in the MIddle East, there was a dump nearby which was full of feral cats and kittens; a neighbour of mine (I didn't live on a compound there) caught one of the half-grown kittens and tied it up to a tree by a rope. One of their children picked it up by its tail and pulled half its tail-skin off ... A night-time rescue operation was carried out and I, together with a Phillipino midwife and a Canadian orthopedic surgeon - cat lovers all! - laid plastic sheets down on the white shag-pile carpet in my dining room (who ever heard of such a STUPID flooring in a hot desert?) and carried out surgery on my dining room table, with a comparative anatomy book at hand for reference! Well, there were no accessible vets at that time. The three of us ended up castrating most of the males on the dump but spaying was beyond us. That first one - the one with the flayed tail - ended up bringing me regular 'gifts' of big dead rats ... LOL! He was a good boy, though - they were always well and truly dead!


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## oldwheels (13 Aug 2021)

We once had a shared cat. Belonged to neighbour who asked us to feed him while she was away. He annoyed the neighbour as when we were away he sat at her front window and as soon as our van appeared back he was out sitting our doorstep. Spent most time with us tho’ she fed him.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> This is why i wouldn't have a cat. Well,living in an upstairs flat and having a dog doesn't help, but i couldn't put up with the worry of where he/she is and will he/she not come home.



Cat's won't do push chairs either !


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## Edwardoka (13 Aug 2021)

Bazzer said:


> I don't mind people spending money on their pets. I do however object to them in my garden because they CBA keep them under control.


It is entirely impossible for an owner to set boundaries for a cat short of keeping them indoors, and if a cat has grown up accustomed to being able to go outdoors, locking it up is actively cruel.

Outdoors cats are very territorial, they take their patrols very seriously, and it sounds like your garden is part of their turf, or at least a way for them to get to their turf.
Scoosh them with some water when they're in your garden. They are generally not stupid and they quickly get the message, if it becomes sufficiently unpleasant for them to maintain that territory they will abandon it.


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> It is entirely impossible for an owner to set boundaries for a cat short of keeping them indoors, and if a cat has grown up accustomed to being able to go outdoors, locking it up is actively cruel.
> 
> Outdoors cats are very territorial, they take their patrols very seriously, and it sounds like your garden is part of their turf, or at least a way for them to get to their turf.
> Scoosh them with some water when they're in your garden. They are generally not stupid and they quickly get the message, if it becomes sufficiently unpleasant for them to maintain that territory they will abandon it.



Super soaker. The pesky Tom soon learnt to not come back.

Our rescue lived wild for 8 months of his life, came to us with building site concrete stuck to him. We've got a large outdoor run he shares with the posh cats - we don't let him out due to his cat flu. That said, they would all get out if they could (and do on occasion). Leo just wanders round howling when he escapes he's so chuffed to have got out. He's easy to catch as he doesn't go far. 

The previous four cat's used to go out, and one got run over.


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## Edwardoka (13 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Don't understand to be honest.
> God help us all if we were surrounded by a world of cat-like humans.
> Be bloody lonely for a start.
> In my opinion.


Being surrounded by a world of human-like humans can be bloody lonely too.

While your average cat is an instinctual psychopath that will hunt for sport and play with their prey, they do have some redeeming qualities.

It's not a trait usually associated with them, but I've known some cats who were better at being empathetic than any humans I've ever known.
One in particular used to be able to tell when I was feeling down and would later climb on the roof to come and see me.

A socialised cat is as good a judge of character as any dog, too.


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## Mo1959 (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> Being surrounded by a world of human-like humans can be bloody lonely too.
> 
> While your average cat is an instinctual psychopath that will hunt for sport and play with their prey, they do have some redeeming qualities.
> 
> ...


I’ve got a really good bond with my Siamese. She sticks to me like glue. Love her to bits. I get more pleasure from animals than people I think!


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## Blue Hills (13 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> While your average cat is an instinctual psychopath that will hunt for sport and play with their prey, they do have some redeeming qualities.


Thanks for this Ed 
Good job this isn't in the NACAs yard


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## gbb (13 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Then how do you explain all those knifed cats which fell victim to the Brighton cat killer? They clearly couldn't 'look after themselves'. If the cats in Brighton owed no allegiance to anyone, why did so many of them manage to crawl back towards their home while seriously or even fatally injured?
> 
> There are weirdos like that all over the place; cats, to their misfortune, seem to be 'attractive' to that sort of subhuman. I lived in a little village which had had one before I moved there - he was hounded out of the place _many _years ago, went to live in a nearby town and started up his nasty tricks again ...


Errr exceptions (i hope, i never heard if such cruelty round here) excluded, generally, cats are very self sufficient and dont 'need' us.
We had a few cats that took up residence near our factory some years ago. Im no cat lover (nor a hater i add) but i took pity on them when the temps were minus 10 one weekend. I took the previous nights bones from spare ribs in, thinking theyd be starving. I gingerly opened the workshop door sos not to scare them....and one was sat there ...with feathers spread all over its face from a recent kill.
It didnt need me (although they did eat the bones )


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## Supersuperleeds (13 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> When i look at my small town's facebook page there are three questions frequently asked. Which take-away do you recommend, where can i get my nails done and has anyone seen my lost cat.



the first and last questions may be linked


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## Edwardoka (13 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Then how do you explain all those knifed cats which fell victim to the Brighton cat killer? They clearly couldn't 'look after themselves'. If the cats in Brighton owed no allegiance to anyone, why did so many of them manage to crawl back towards their home while seriously or even fatally injured?
> 
> There are weirdos like that all over the place; cats, to their misfortune, seem to be 'attractive' to that sort of subhuman. I lived in a little village which had had one before I moved there - he was hounded out of the place _many _years ago, went to live in a nearby town and started up his nasty tricks again ...


Cats can absolutely take care of themselves - they have adapted better to the constructed environment than pretty much any species except maybe seagulls or rats.

However, cats have also become accustomed to being around humans, which makes them vulnerable to the kind of person who is arbitrarily cruel to animals, in much the same way that animals without natural predators showed only curiosity when the first explorers found them - to their great detriment if not outright extinction - whereas most sensible creatures flee when they see us.


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## Accy cyclist (13 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Cat's won't do push chairs either !


Maybe not, but believe it or not i know of a woman who's cat follows her when she goes out. One night she was down my local pub and there it was in the pub with her.🐯


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## fossyant (13 Aug 2021)

Never ever give cat's 'medicines' when you are just in boxer shorts. One of ours decided she didn't like it and jumped straight onto my back as I was crouched down, all 4 feet and claws into my bare back. Oh that hurt.


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## Reynard (14 Aug 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> I’ve got a really good bond with my Siamese. She sticks to me like glue. Love her to bits. I get more pleasure from animals than people I think!



Likewise me, with my terrible twosome. 

They're wonderful company, and at least I don't have to do the "poo bag dangle" that dog owners do. Although I'm more inclined to say that the girls own me, rather than the other way round. They have me well trained. (Poppy - top & Lexi - bottom)


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## Reynard (14 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> While your average cat is an instinctual psychopath that will hunt for sport and play with their prey, they do have some redeeming qualities.



Actually, not strictly true. The reason why cats "play" with their prey, is to stun them to allow them to deliver the killing bite safely, while at the same time, avoiding being bitten. Ergo the splat-smack and the flip-into-the-air scoop.

As a solitary hunter, a cat can't afford to be injured through carelessness, and it's a case of discretion being the better part of valour. Small rodents will try and bite back if given the opportunity - I've seen and photographed that many times (they go for the toes) when observing my own cats.


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## Mrs M (14 Aug 2021)

Had cats for many years, all lived to a decent age, 15, 16, 19 and 20.
None of them insured apart from our current two.
Hardly cost anything apart from vaccinations, flea and tick control and Cattery bills for the hols.
Our first dog has cost us a lot and still just 9 months old.
Wouldn’t be without any of them now though ❤️
Cats rule the household 😼


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## Accy cyclist (14 Aug 2021)

Jason, the Blue Peter cat was the first cat i knew.


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## Arrowfoot (14 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> When I lived in the Middle East, the Westerners compound was divided almost into two halves - Europeans who generally let their cats out, and Americans who generally kept their cats in (until they escaped ...).


There was programme on BBC where they tracked pet cats movement around the neighbourhood and they covered fair distance in the night. It in their nature to cover their territory at night. I have come across cat owners that don't get it and keep them locked up. It really is not fair and you often see them at the window while dogs seldom do that.


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## kayakerles (14 Aug 2021)

I never had furry friends growing up, except for a parakeet. Okay, technically that was a feathered friend. 25 years ago I got a taste of living with cat. Now we're married and we have shared our various abodes with between 1 - 3 kitties ever since. Such a silly thread, “Are cats sickly little beasts?” Except that I knew I'd get to hear stories from other fellow cat-people, and meet some new vibrissae-ed faces.

Don’t care for cats? Don’t bring them into your life. Same for dogs or other people for that matter. We’re all free to choose. All of our kitties have been rescues. They've all brought more to our lives than anything money could buy. 👍🏻

For those of you other owned-by-kitties folk (you know who you are) here's our two older buddies… Benny, 14 yrs old…






Charlie, 17 years old…





💜🐱🐱💜


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## vickster (14 Aug 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> There was programme on BBC where they tracked pet cats movement around the neighbourhood and they covered fair distance in the night. It in their nature to cover their territory at night. I have come across cat owners that don't get it and keep them locked up. It really is not fair and you often see them at the window while dogs seldom do that.


Mine is free to go in and out as he pleases, but will still often sit at the window (the local kids like him). Think he’s really just a nosey bugger surveilling his kingdom 😄
Other favoured position (taken just now)


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## Bazzer (14 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> It is entirely impossible for an owner to set boundaries for a cat short of keeping them indoors, and if a cat has grown up accustomed to being able to go outdoors, locking it up is actively cruel.
> 
> Outdoors cats are very territorial, they take their patrols very seriously, and it sounds like your garden is part of their turf, or at least a way for them to get to their turf.
> Scoosh them with some water when they're in your garden. They are generally not stupid and they quickly get the message, if it becomes sufficiently unpleasant for them to maintain that territory they will abandon it.


They know not to come into my garden when I am around. It's when I am not around, using seed and vegetable beds and my herb garden as their toilet, I object to. I also dislike their seemingly non selective murderous tendencies towards wildlife.


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## KnittyNorah (14 Aug 2021)

Bazzer said:


> They know not to come into my garden when I am around. It's when I am not around, using seed and vegetable beds and my herb garden as their toilet, I object to. I also dislike their seemingly non selective murderous tendencies towards wildlife.


The RSPB aren't overly concerned about their toll on birds in general and in most places, although they acknowledge that it can be individually distressing. 
They have quite a lot of useful advice on how to deter cats from your garden here. 

They, and the British Mammal Society, recommend that the two best ways of protecting wildlife if you are a cat owner is to (a) keep your cat in overnight as much as you can and (b)use a quick-release collar with a bell or other warning device. More sensible advice on the RSPB site here, if you are a cat owner who feeds birds.


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## Mike_P (14 Aug 2021)

Suspect a lot of lost cats actually kipping in another house, a lot seem to have more than one home. Had a neighbour who had moved their after one of her cats had been hit by a car. It had dragged itself back to her previous house and the vet had put it back together but was astonished how well it could walk. A bit ropy at first, I heard it almost crying in her back garden; it was being stalked by another cat so a stone aimed at the aggressor. To say cats have no feelings was subsequently proved wrong for as soon as it could jump enough to get over the fence it spent most of its time almost stuck to me. Also seemed to develop a good understanding of words, one day having been asked to look after her cats I arrived home and like glue it followed into my house. Said to it "I was hoping you were next door, have to feed you" and it did no more than walk out and sit on a shed looking at her back door.


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## Mike_P (14 Aug 2021)

On the issue of hunting their is a view that all cats should be allowed a litter; by neutering straight away they are not evolving away from the need to hunt.


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## cyberknight (14 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> The RSPB aren't overly concerned about their toll on birds in general and in most places, although they acknowledge that it can be individually distressing.
> They have quite a lot of useful advice on how to deter cats from your garden here.
> 
> They, and the British Mammal Society, recommend that the two best ways of protecting wildlife if you are a cat owner is to (a) keep your cat in overnight as much as you can and (b)use a quick-release collar with a bell or other warning device. More sensible advice on the RSPB site here, if you are a cat owner who feeds birds.


Our cat is a hunter / eater no birds/mice etc are safe im afraid even with a bell collar the blighter can easily catch small stuff like mice and sparrows and one even bough tin a bat .
We dont like it but at a loss on how to stop her bringng us prezzies on a regular basis .Mrs ck often says we ought to get rid eof the cat although the kids love it .
I grew up with cats in the countryside so im used to it .


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## KnittyNorah (14 Aug 2021)

Mike_P said:


> Suspect a lot of lost cats actually kipping in another house, a lot seem to have more than one home.



When I was a small child we had a big black cat called Sooty. He adored me and, especially, my dad. He merely tolerated my mother. Dad was at work Mon- Fri and when I got to about 3 or 4 I went to nursery. And at that point Sooty started disappearing on Tuesday mornings and reappearing at Friday lunchtime - but if dad _didn't_ go to work on Tuesday morning, or if I didn't go to nursery, Sooty stayed at home all week. After a couple of months of this, mum tied a luggage label round his neck (cats in those days didn't wear collars) with a note on saying 'my name is Sooty, I live on XYZ street. where do I go from Tuesday to Friday?'
On Friday he came back with the label re-tied round his neck, 'At ABC Street I am called Cocoa and we wondered where he went every weekend'. 
So dad went round and they were two old ladies who had never had a cat - or any pet for that matter! - until Sooty sussed them out as being a soft touch for tinned salmon, fresh beef and the like and, very important, constant company when neither my dad nor I were at home. When we moved house quite a long way away, my mum was a bit concerned about them missing Sooty so she found a rather nice, lazy, affectionate cat which someone wanted to 'get rid of' as it was 'no good' at mousing, and took it round to the old ladies with advice about 'buttering its paws' so it would stay at home. They stayed in touch with mum for several years after that, as they said that without meeting Sooty they would never have learnt of the delights of pet ownership.


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## KnittyNorah (14 Aug 2021)

cyberknight said:


> Our cat is a hunter / eater no birds/mice etc are safe im afraid even with a bell collar the blighter can easily catch small stuff like mice and sparrows and one even bough tin a bat .
> We dont like it but at a loss on how to stop her bringng us prezzies on a regular basis .Mrs ck often says we ought to get rid eof the cat although the kids love it .
> I grew up with cats in the countryside so im used to it .



Well unless you live near a nature reserve with rare birds, the RSPB isn't concerned so I wouldn't be either. I used to have a really tiny cat with only one eye who was a demon hunter; she'd catch big fat woodpigeons and full-grown rabbits - no baby birds or little mice for her, she liked something with plenty of meat on its bones! This cat used to tuck her chin in to dull the sound of the bells on her collar.


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## PeteXXX (14 Aug 2021)




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## Cletus Van Damme (14 Aug 2021)

I used to dislike cats, no real reason to be honest, must've been a macho thing or some crap.. When I got married years ago we wanted a pet and realised a dog was out of the question. I had 2 cats, I thought they were awesome. One was really soft and not that bright, the other was really sharp and a total killer. The killer cat was by far the best although I didn't like that part at all. They passed away a good while ago now and I've inherited another, hes slightly overweight but a really cool cat and he doesn't kill anything.

I'm really a dog kind of guy, but everybody is different. I'd rather have a cat than a little yappy lapdog, I just don't get them at all, just like a lot of people can't be @rsed with cats (like the OP) I'm the same with some small dogs. I do like Jack Russell's, Paterdale's and Cocker Spaniels and a lot of the mixed ones, Cockerpoo etc, etc. I'd never harm one or any animal. Everybody to their own though.


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## rogerzilla (14 Aug 2021)

Cats vary a lot. Some are aloof, some are very affectionate. Some hunt, some don't have the instinct at all. I much prefer them to dogs, which are less independent, often hugely inbred leading to appalling health issues (e.g. pugs, french bulldogs) and don't even self-clean. Plus, if you have a cat, all the mice and rats in the area move out, which is why we domesticated cats un the first place.


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## Reynard (14 Aug 2021)

cyberknight said:


> Our cat is a hunter / eater no birds/mice etc are safe im afraid even with a bell collar the blighter can easily catch small stuff like mice and sparrows and one even bough tin a bat .
> We dont like it but at a loss on how to stop her bringng us prezzies on a regular basis .Mrs ck often says we ought to get rid eof the cat although the kids love it .
> I grew up with cats in the countryside so im used to it .



Prezzies are part and parcel of being owned by a cat. Usually, gifts are them bringing us stuff because we're such godawful cats and can't hunt for toffee... 

I get everything from sucked butterflies to snakes.

N.B. A bell on a collar is bloody useless. A stalking cat moves slowly enough for the bell not to jingle.


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## fossyant (14 Aug 2021)

Ours just catch flies (house cats) and play with Nerf bullets !


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## Reynard (14 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Ours just catch flies (house cats) and play with Nerf bullets !



Sky raisins!!!

Poppy is the expert in sky raisin catching. She eats the damn things as well.

Lexi likes spiders, but won't eat the legs...


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## Mike_P (14 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Plus, if you have a cat, all the mice and rats in the area move out, which is why we domesticated cats un the first place.


Not necessarily, arrived home one evening and a neighbour, not the one I referenced earlier, called me to get a mouse out of her house - her cat was not interested. Have to admit the mouse was so small it probably thought it wasn't worth the cats effort


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## fossyant (14 Aug 2021)

Leo (gingy) and Simba asleep together.

This never happens as Leo is a bossy knickers.


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## Edwardoka (14 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Leo (gingy) and Simba asleep together.
> 
> This never happens as Leo is a bossy knickers.
> View attachment 604193


I demand you smush your face into Simba's belly and blow raspberries. It will be worth the clawing, I assure you.


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## fossyant (14 Aug 2021)

Edwardoka said:


> I demand you smush your face into Simba's belly and blow raspberries. It will be worth the clawing, I assure you.



He's a Ragdoll, it won't happen. Big softie he is. If playing with them, Simba and Luna (the grey one) don't get the claws out as they came as 'twins'. Kyoto, the younger dark faced/socks white one (younger sister, same parents), gets the claws out, as does Leo the ninja...

Raggies are well 'chilled' by cat standards.


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## kayakerles (15 Aug 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> …I have come across cat owners that don't get it and keep them locked up. It really is not fair and you often see them at the window while dogs seldom do that.


All of the kitties that have lived with us were rescued from certain euthanization. Once you take them home to live with you in a major city, letting them run around outside is a death sentence. Call it unfair if you like, but you're not in our shoes, so perhaps don’t criticize so quickly. Our kitties have all lived long, happy lives with plenty of interaction with our other kitties and us. They enjoy their “locked up” lives as you call them. So do we. We all enjoyed living in the country more, but life sometimes brings changes you just have to roll with. Our cats have an outside-window patio. We wish WE did. But we all manage. 🙂🐱🙂🐱


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## Blue Hills (15 Aug 2021)

Cletus Van Damme said:


> I'd rather have a cat than a little yappy lapdog,


I don't count those things, the sort of things that some princesses carry around in handbags as dogs to be honest.

as you say there are plenty of smallish dogs with character - jack russells are great.

oops - diversion.


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## Mike_P (15 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> As you say there are plenty of smallish dogs with character - jack russells are great.


Aside from having that annoying habit of small dogs, chasing cyclists. The last such rat I encountered forced me to stop at the foot of steep hill and it very nearly got booted across the road


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

Hah, this old boy of mine had a reputation for terrorizing the neighbourhood dogs. The smaller the dog, the less he liked it. He even beat up the Mayor's little terrier thing at the pet service in Ely Cathedral. Toby was like "oooooooh, small dog, I absolutely MUST shred it."


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> All of the kitties that have lived with us were rescued from certain euthanization. Once you take them home to live with you in a major city, letting them run around outside is a death sentence. Call it unfair if you like, but you're not in our shoes, so perhaps don’t criticize so quickly. Our kitties have all lived long, happy lives with plenty of interaction with our other kitties and us. They enjoy their “locked up” lives as you call them. So do we. We all enjoyed living in the country more, but life sometimes brings changes you just have to roll with. Our cats have an outside-window patio. We wish WE did. But we all manage. 🙂🐱🙂🐱



The girls have several acres of garden and woodland to run around in, but they actually prefer to spend most of their time indoors. In fact, Poppy generally doesn't tend to go outside at all between mid-September and May. 

Toby, the black boy in my previous post, was an indoor cat when I first had him, as I was living in a very urban area that backed out onto a very busy road. I couldn't cat proof the garden, but he was happy indoors as long as we had a daily constitutional to the local park. I trained Toby to walk on a lead like a dog - he was brilliant at it, and would sit on the kerb whenever we had to wait to cross the road.


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## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2021)

There i was in my neighbour's flat the other week, when her 'house cat' walked by. My mutt didn't seem to be fazed being in the presence of a cat and just watched it walk by.


























He also had a nibble of those cat biscuits in the picture and had a drink out of the cat's water fountain. The fountain is a little device that constantly filters the water..or something like that. She does pamper her cat, but is it right that it can't do cat things,like 'play out'? She says it sits in the window watching birds and other cats. I suppose what it's never had it won't miss.🤔


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## kayakerles (15 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> The girls have several acres of garden and woodland to run around in, but they actually prefer to spend most of their time indoors. In fact, Poppy generally doesn't tend to go outside at all between mid-September and May.
> 
> Toby, the black boy in my previous post, was an indoor cat when I first had him, as I was living in a very urban area that backed out onto a very busy road. I couldn't cat proof the garden, but he was happy indoors as long as we had a daily constitutional to the local park. I trained Toby to walk on a lead like a dog - he was brilliant at it, and would sit on the kerb whenever we had to wait to cross the road.


Beautiful pic of Toby! When we lived out in the open country of OKlahoma, Charlie was our # 1 wide-roaming kitty. Our home was on 1.25 acres of land, but Charlie went both over and under our fence to roam cow pastures nearby. Thankfully he never took on Copperheads that we know of, or was in battle with the coyotes, but I’m sure he made quick business of field mice. Here’s a pic of Charlie in our large fenced yard in his younger days.











Charlie's history: Charlie must have started kittenhood with people, but at around 3 months old somehow roamed too far and wound up being found shivering in the corner of someone’s open garage, very cold and very hungry. From a shelter he wound up with us soon. Made the move with us to Maryland around 7 years ago. Now he’s our elder kitty at 17 years old, happy to share his old age with 14 yr old Benny. They’re quite the pair of buddies. 😺 🐱


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## Chromatic (15 Aug 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Don't you think that dogs are less complicated? Doesn't a cat pissing in your headphones lose it's charm after a while?



When we had a cat she pissed in my headphones too, I didn't find it very charming either. She also pissed on a cassette deck of mine too. She was getting old and coming towards the end when she started pissing in all sorts of places and when she did it I suppose it was my own fault for leaving them lying around and accessible for pissing on.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> There i was in my neighbour's flat the other week, when her 'house cat' walked by. My mutt didn't seem to be fazed being in the presence of a cat and just watched it walk by.
> 
> View attachment 604360
> 
> ...



Looks like a Ragdoll. We've got a water fountain, mainly as one of the cats likes drinking from taps, so she has her own now (also she eats mainly dry food given the choice)


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## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> *Looks like a Ragdoll*. We've got a water fountain, mainly as one of the cats likes drinking from taps, so she has her own now (also she eats mainly dry food given the choice)


I've just looked that one up to see what a Ragdoll is.  She (neighbour) had three of them at one stage. Two were old and had to be taken to the vet to be you know what. She looked after them well and was very upset when two passed away.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> I've just looked that one up to see what a Ragdoll is.  She (neighbour) had three of them at one stage. Two were old and had to be taken to the vet to be you know what. She looked after them well and was very upset when two passed away.



Three of my four are Ragdolls - look a couple of pages earlier. Think they are over £1k at the moment for a ruddy cat. We didn't pay that. We've two white and grey ones, and a grey and white one (think a negative).


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## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Three of my four are Ragdolls - look a couple of pages earlier. Think they are over £1k at the moment for a ruddy cat. We didn't pay that. We've two white and grey ones, and a grey and white one (think a negative).


I knew a bloke who looked after his daughter's *seven * cats while she went on holiday. They were those without hair on their bodies. He told me they were around £1000 each and his daughter gave instructions to feed each of them different diets as they were very fussy. He also said they drove him crazy, climbing the curtains, trying to get out the house, knocking ornaments off etc.


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

Ah, it depends whether you are buying show quality or pet quality, and also whether any show quality kittens are on the active breeding register or not.

Price also depends on the breed, and whether that breed has variants or not, due to outcrossing programmes etc.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> I knew a bloke who looked after his daughter's *seven * cats while she went on holiday. They were those without hair on their bodies. He told me they were around £1000 each and his daughter gave instructions to feed each of them different diets as they were very fussy. He also said they drove him crazy, climbing the curtains, trying to get out the house, knocking ornaments off etc.



Yeh, fairly standard here too. One of ours knocked a 1kg Elephant 'ornament' onto my wife when she was asleep. Right onto where her covid vac was, not once but twice. We've a big outdoor run for them all though, but 'zoomies' can be quite destructive, as Ragdolls are big cats - not just fluff, but tall. Add in they are nutters too.


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> I knew a bloke who looked after his daughter's *seven * cats while she went on holiday. They were those without hair on their bodies. He told me they were around £1000 each and his daughter gave instructions to feed each of them different diets as they were very fussy. He also said they drove him crazy, climbing the curtains, trying to get out the house, knocking ornaments off etc.



Ah, Sphynx cats.

One of the breeds that often end up in rescue. People think that a hairless cat is easier to care for because it's got no coat to groom, but they do have to be bathed at least once a week, because the skin oils don't get wicked away - as they would do on a cat with fur. You quickly end up with a rancid cat if you don't bath them.

They're prone to stomach issues (Sphynx litter tray deposits would make a good riot control medium) and so you do have to watch their diets. They also eat more because they can't regulate their body temperature as well.

On the other hand, they are very sweet and affectionate, but you do have to put the work in.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> Ah, it depends whether you are buying show quality or pet quality, and also whether any show quality kittens are on the active breeding register or not.
> 
> Price also depends on the breed, and whether that breed has variants or not, due to outcrossing programmes etc.



Ours are Pet quality as there is a 'iccle' bit more Persian in them.


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Yeh, fairly standard here too. One of ours knocked a 1kg Elephant 'ornament' onto my wife when she was asleep. Right onto where her covid vac was, not once but twice. We've a big outdoor run for them all though, but 'zoomies' can be quite destructive, as Ragdolls are big cats - not just fluff, but tall. Add in they are nutters too.



A full-grown Raggy male can get to around 7 kilos or so. The average domestic (moggie) tends to be around the 4 1/2 to 5 kilo mark.


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## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> Ah, it depends whether you are buying show quality or pet quality, and also whether any show quality kittens are on the active breeding register or not.
> 
> Price also depends on the breed, and whether that breed has variants or not, due to outcrossing programmes etc.


If i were to ever own a cat i'd buy/get a common-or-garden kitten or abandoned moggy. Like with dogs, i'm not into expensive finicky pedigrees.

Not having a go at those who are, but it's the love they give back not how they look that i like.


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Ours are Pet quality as there is a 'iccle' bit more Persian in them.



Persians were used to develop the breed back in the day.  Although some breeders, particularly in the US are starting a trend for shorter muzzles and flatter faces. It looks odd - Raggies should be a well-balanced cat, with nothing exaggerated.


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## Reynard (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Yeh, fairly standard here too. One of ours knocked a 1kg Elephant 'ornament' onto my wife when she was asleep. Right onto where her covid vac was, not once but twice. We've a big outdoor run for them all though, but 'zoomies' can be quite destructive, as Ragdolls are big cats - not just fluff, but tall. Add in they are nutters too.



I don't need the zoomies here...

Poppy will knock stuff off the work surfaces etc when she wants a whim catered to.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

I've seriously thought about a Bengal before, when we dropped our moggies off at a cattery (they bred bengals) but the cost was daft. Then we've now got three pedigrees and a gingie.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> Persians were used to develop the breed back in the day.  Although some breeders, particularly in the US are starting a trend for shorter muzzles and flatter faces. It looks odd - Raggies should be a well-balanced cat, with nothing exaggerated.



They are, just fluffy. New'ish breed isn't it, from the 50's. Our three are spot on weight wise despite looking huge. I'd like Simba to have a little more meat on him as he's very tall but skinny - good inch or two at shoulder height than the girls. Kyoto (white with socks), is nearer in size than his twin Luna (grey).

Ours have longer noses like normal moggies.


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2021)

I grew up with dogs, but our lifestyle meant we really didn't have the time. So we've had cat's since. I do love my sister's labrador and go mad playing with him when we get together - he loves it, I get covered in slobber, and our cats aren't impressed.


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## Accy cyclist (15 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> I've seriously thought about a Bengal before, when we dropped our moggies off at a cattery (they bred bengals) but the cost was daft. Then we've now got three pedigrees and a gingie.


What about Siamese cats. Are they still popular? Our neighbours in the 1960's had a Siamese called Jason after the famous Blue Peter cat.


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## fossyant (16 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> What about Siamese cats. Are they still popular? Our neighbours in the 1960's had a Siamese called Jason after the famous Blue Peter cat.



Can be still popular, they are hard work - Reynard will tell you. 

We went with the Ragdolls as they are laid back and go floppy when you pick them up. Our first was a loon though, and wanted out all the time, so we did as he wanted to play all the time with our elderly tortie (grumpy buggers). Unfortunately he got run over. Wife devastated, then ended up with grumpy tortie and a rescue ginga, at the same point the breeder had more 'raggies' on the way. Mrs had two, then a year later she and daughter got another from the breeder, so ended up with five. Old tigs passed away earlier this year, so we've now got 4 cats under 4, crazy...

The rescue wants to be boss all the time, and whilst he can be lovely with us, he bat's the others about. He likes Luna the grey raggie, but not too keen on the two white ones. Thing is, Simba our big ragdoll is at least two inches higher at the shoulder, so is massive, and he has teeth and claws. Leo only has claws. Simba just is too laid back to fight.


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## Reynard (16 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> What about Siamese cats. Are they still popular? Our neighbours in the 1960's had a Siamese called Jason after the famous Blue Peter cat.



Definitely - they are still very popular.

Siamese (and orientals and balinese) are great conversationalists and very affectionate, but gods, they have this bloody-minded persistence and a need to get involved in absolutely everything their Human does... They can have a very twisted sense of humour (or what passes for humour in cats), but it also means you need eyes in the back of your head. 

They're actually one of my favourite breeds to handle when stewarding as they're fabulously interactive. Although they seem to develop six pairs of legs when you're holding them.


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## Reynard (16 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> I've seriously thought about a Bengal before, when we dropped our moggies off at a cattery (they bred bengals) but the cost was daft. Then we've now got three pedigrees and a gingie.



Bengals can be arsey sods temperament-wise - not great for the casual owner. They're the one breed I really don't like handling at shows, as you just don't know whether they'll purr at you or bite you.

For those of you who don't know, Bengals are a hybrid between a domestic cat and an Asiatic Leopard Cat. The breed resulted from an experiment to get ALC genes into the domestic cat population, as ALC are immune to FeLV. Of course, that's now a moot point, because there is now a vaccine for feline leukemia.


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## Reynard (16 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> They are, just fluffy. New'ish breed isn't it, from the 50's. Our three are spot on weight wise despite looking huge. I'd like Simba to have a little more meat on him as he's very tall but skinny - good inch or two at shoulder height than the girls. Kyoto (white with socks), is nearer in size than his twin Luna (grey).
> 
> Ours have longer noses like normal moggies.



1970s, founded by a lady called Josephine Baker. Ragdolls are colourpoint cats, with or without white. Ragamuffins are newer (the breed has only recently achieved championship status) - they are basically the same type of cat, but not colourpointed.

I have a friend in Manchester who breeds Raggies.


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## Accy cyclist (16 Aug 2021)

My Zeus has gone missing again







Lyndon Avenue area.
The same happened a couple of years ago and he came back after 2 weeks.
I last saw him early yesterday morning, but he hasn't come back




He's chipped and neutered.
I'm going to have a walk around the area, see if there's any sign of him











This is on the local facebook page. I hope they find him, but how can you spot/find a black cat without a shiny/ fluorescent/reflective collar when it's dark, or going dark?


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## Arrowfoot (16 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> All of the kitties that have lived with us were rescued from certain euthanization. Once you take them home to live with you in a major city, letting them run around outside is a death sentence. Call it unfair if you like, but you're not in our shoes, so perhaps don’t criticize so quickly. Our kitties have all lived long, happy lives with plenty of interaction with our other kitties and us. They enjoy their “locked up” lives as you call them. So do we. We all enjoyed living in the country more, but life sometimes brings changes you just have to roll with. Our cats have an outside-window patio. We wish WE did. But we all manage. 🙂🐱🙂🐱


Sorry, have to disagree. After watching the BBC series on the movement of cats, all the 50 cats tagged showed the same pattern of movement around the respective homes and their wider territory. It became apparent that it was their natural instinct. I learnt a lot from that. They are very unlike dogs that prefer to be with their owners and their home.

Maybe a better approach is to find homes that allow cats to do it. We should not accommodate our lifestyles and limitation and blame it by suggesting a "death sentence". Cats survival instincts compared too many domestic animals are excellent.

It no different to having pets with heavy coats in a hot climate and owners giving all sorts of reasons for having them.


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## Archie_tect (16 Aug 2021)

We've had 2 cats since 1990 ... always made it clear to them that if the vet's bills cost more than a new one from the cat shelter...


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## MartinQ (16 Aug 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> We've had 2 cats since 1990 ... always made it clear to them that if the vet's bills cost more than a new one from the cat shelter...



and did they point out that vet bills were your problem not theirs


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## Archie_tect (16 Aug 2021)

MartinQ said:


> and did they point out that vet bills were your problem not theirs


There was a bit of negotiation as they were scared of the cat basket... we agreed if I didn't take them to the vets, they wouldn't get ill.


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## KnittyNorah (16 Aug 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Sorry, have to disagree. After watching the BBC series on the movement of cats,



I honestly think that the cats in countries like the UK - where not only is it the culture to let them roam but also (relatively) safe to do so, are _different_ mentally (and some of them definitely different physically) to those in - especially - the US, and also other countries where for a range of reasons it has not been the culture to permit free-ranging, but rather to keep them largely or even entirely indoors. 

Cats are fast breeders and in the US, most kittens will probably be descend from many generations of indoor, or at least partially, indoor cats, which have thrived in that environment. It seems to be largely the cats that are mentally 'ready' to live and thrive with an indoor lifestyle - be they 'breed' or 'moggie' - that get successfully bred and passed on, or sold, to other indoor-only owners; in the UK our cats - definitely the moggie and to some lesser extent the breeds - are more 'multi-purpose' as it were. 

Also not to forget that coyotes are often city dwellers in the US now, rather like foxes in the UK, and find cats and small dogs to be an easy dinner; even in suburban areas one hears of bears and cougars; there are poisonous snakes and of course with every interaction that a cat has with another mammal there is a rabies risk. Caiman in Florida too - and probably trigger-happy folks in every alternate back-yard; your pet wouldn't get a bucket of water thrown at it as happens here but a hail of bullets.

So no wonder that indoor cats are a 'thing' in the US. It's probably not strictly _necessary_ , in that unneutered cats in a semi-protected environment (eg a farm) would likely breed fast enough to maintain their population despite a combination of predators and disease, but it's human nature to treasure the thing one has nurtured and want to protect it, so cats will have been - even if not deliberately - bred to 'accept' a more indoor life than here; many US cats would just be confused and stressed by being expected to go outside to occupy and entertain themselves, and to do their business - and how _do_ they do it when there's 6ft of snow outside for several months of the year as in some parts of the US? Also not to forget that an indoor cat in the US will generally have much greater range than an indoor one in the UK - apparently 6 average UK houses could fit inside one average US house!

There's an additional issue, exclusive to the US, in rehoming cats from a rescue, that in the US (alone among almost all of the developed world, I believe) it is still legal to perform onychectomy/phalangectomy (partial digital amputation - approximately equivalent to cutting off the fingers at the fingers at their first joint - and euphemistically known as declawing) for reasons of owner's 'convenience'. A cat without its claws has no defence and is basically helpless in the face of even the mildest aggression from eg another cat or a small domestic dog, and must not be allowed out for its own safety. 

So I think that when we compare UK domestic cats with US domestic cats, although on the surface we think we are comparing like with like, in actual practice I think we are comparing two creatures and two lives which are more different than we know. One is not 'better' than the other, but one creature is adapted to one lifestyle and the other, to the other.

Neither is likely to thrive if suddenly expected to cope with 'the other' without an adequate period of transition, and even then it may well not be possible for it to adapt.


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## MartinQ (16 Aug 2021)

Archie_tect said:


> There was a bit of negotiation as they were scared of the cat basket... we agreed if I didn't take them to the vets, they wouldn't get ill.



I find negotiation only works around meal times with ours. They negotiate that I give them food ...
A bit one way really ...


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## Pumpkin the robot (18 Aug 2021)

We have 6 cats, mainly because my wife volunteers as a kitty cuddler at the local RSPCA. They are all rescue cats and only a couple of them are lap cats, but they are happy and permit us to look after them.
We also have 2 or 3 that come and visit at feeding time. We did have one that moved in permanently for a few years from a neighbour, but as our brood grew, he found a home elswhere. 
One of the visitors (a Bengal) dicovered where the food was kept and on a couple of occasions, he would jump through the living room window, run into the kitchen, steal a pouch of food from the box and disappear through the cat flap, into the garden. Later we would find a clawed open sachet with no food in it. He was far more intelligent than our moggies (or not depending how you look at it, ours are happy to just sit and wait to be fed!)


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## Reynard (18 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> One of the visitors (a Bengal) dicovered where the food was kept and on a couple of occasions, he would jump through the living room window, run into the kitchen, steal a pouch of food from the box and disappear through the cat flap, into the garden. Later we would find a clawed open sachet with no food in it.





Hrmph...

I have to decant cat treats from the packets into clip top tubs. Because a certain tortie madam will either a) chew the packet open, or b) knock the box off the work surface and keep bashing it till the lid falls off.

N.B. Have to say, Tesco's own brand dreamies in the new catnip flavour are a *MASSIVE* hit here...


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## kayakerles (18 Aug 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> I honestly think that the cats in countries like the UK - where not only is it the culture to let them roam but also (relatively) safe to do so, are _different_ mentally (and some of them definitely different physically) to those in - especially - the US, and also other countries where for a range of reasons it has not been the culture to permit free-ranging, but rather to keep them largely or even entirely indoors.
> 
> Cats are fast breeders and in the US, most kittens will probably be descend from many generations of indoor, or at least partially, indoor cats, which have thrived in that environment. It seems to be largely the cats that are mentally 'ready' to live and thrive with an indoor lifestyle - be they 'breed' or 'moggie' - that get successfully bred and passed on, or sold, to other indoor-only owners; in the UK our cats - definitely the moggie and to some lesser extent the breeds - are more 'multi-purpose' as it were.
> 
> ...


Thank you, @KnittyNorah, for sharing your insights with @Arrowfoot and the rest of us. I agree with most everything you said about those of us that live with our feline friends here in the States, (except the likelihood of kitties being chased by a hail of bullets from a back yard, 😆) as I have no idea what it is like to live with cats in the UK or other countries. My wife and I have had two or three cats living with us at all times over the past 25 years in different states. They have been happy cats, as are our two boys that currently live with us now in a city of 82,000 people. Cats that roam free here get flattened pretty quickly. I have seen maybe 3 cats outside since we moved here 8 years ago, to give an idea of how much a major city is NOT a place to let our furry friends roam outside. If my wife and I still lived out in the country they could go outside, but this is a different place, for all four of us. For me even riding my bike here is a world different from being the country. Our two kitties are now quite old and content. Life is good for all 4 of us. 

Hopefully Arrowfoot and I can simply agree to disagree. ✌ We are not on this forum for arguing over bikes, politics, cats or anything else. I think you hit it on the head when you said, “… in actual practice I think we are comparing two creatures and two lives which are more different than we know” from what you and others have described. We live in different worlds.


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## kayakerles (18 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> My Zeus has gone missing again
> View attachment 604472
> View attachment 604473
> Lyndon Avenue area.
> ...


@Accy cyclist, I hope Zeus comes home soon, and has a good excuse for not telling you he'd be gone for a while! Looking forward to your report (hopefully soon) that he is home again and has offered you his apologies for worrying you. He's a gorgeous boy. Keep us posted.


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## Mo1959 (18 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> Thank you, @KnittyNorah, for sharing your insights with @Arrowfoot and the rest of us. I agree with most everything you said about those of us that live with our feline friends here in the States, (except the likelihood of kitties being chased by a hail of bullets from a back yard, 😆) as I have no idea what it is like to live with cats in the UK or other countries. My wife and I have had two or three cats living with us at all times over the past 25 years in different states. They have been happy cats, as are our two boys that currently live with us now in a city of 82,000 people. Cats that roam free here get flattened pretty quickly. I have seen maybe 3 cats outside since we moved here 8 years ago, to give an idea of how much a major city is NOT a place to let our furry friends roam outside. If my wife and I still lived out in the country they could go outside, but this is a different place, for all four of us. For me even riding my bike here is a world different from being the country. Our two kitties are now quite old and content. Life is good for all 4 of us.
> 
> Hopefully Arrowfoot and I can simply agree to disagree. ✌ We are not on this forum for arguing over bikes, politics, cats or anything else. I think you hit it on the head when you said, “… in actual practice I think we are comparing two creatures and two lives which are more different than we know” from what you and others have described. We live in different worlds.


I agree with you on this one. In fact many pedigree cat breeders here actually ask that you keep their cats indoors. I am constantly reading of lost, injured and killed cats on my local Facebook page and lost my last Siamese who got out accidentally. Seeing your beloved cat squashed on the road is heart breaking so I will continue with indoor cats.


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## fossyant (18 Aug 2021)

Dreamies sell a 'large' box of treats as well as the pouches. It says 'claw proof' on the case. Nope it's not. I'll find a picture of the lid. The packets are no problem for Kyoto, the boxes slightly more tricky.


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## fossyant (18 Aug 2021)

Hmm. The white scratches and the holes are the cats.


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## Reynard (18 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> Dreamies sell a 'large' box of treats as well as the pouches. It says 'claw proof' on the case. Nope it's not. I'll find a picture of the lid. The packets are no problem for Kyoto, the boxes slightly more tricky.



Well, girl cats have more brains than the boys.

You should be thankful that Madam Kyoto isn't a tortie


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## Mo1959 (18 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> Well, girl cats have more brains than the boys.
> 
> You should be thankful that Madam Kyoto isn't a tortie


I’ve no chance! 🐱


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## kayakerles (18 Aug 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> I agree with you on this one. In fact many pedigree cat breeders here actually ask that you keep their cats indoors. I am constantly reading of lost, injured and killed cats on my local Facebook page and lost my last Siamese who got out accidentally. Seeing your beloved cat squashed on the road is heart breaking so I will continue with indoor cats.


We have never had any pedigree kitties, @Mo1959, only rescues. However, all of them are/were priceless. My apple-head Siamese mix (beige tip) was my kitty boy of all kitties (below). Sorry you lost a Siamese to the threats of the road. 😿 There are so so many kitties that wind up in rescue shelters here in the States, that even though we have thoroughly enjoyed seeing beautiful bread balanize, Siamese and others, we always go for the rescue route. Here's Riley. Sadly, we lost him to thyroid disease. (2002 - 2018)


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## Reynard (18 Aug 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> I’ve no chance! 🐱



Tell me about it... 

There's just this "something" about tortoiseshell cats, isn't there?  Madam Poppy can throw strops worthy of the very best operatic divas...


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## Pumpkin the robot (18 Aug 2021)

Reynard said:


> Well, girl cats have more brains than the boys.



We have 3 girls and 3 boys. The boys are not the sharpest tools in the box!


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## Reynard (18 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> We have 3 girls and 3 boys. The boys are not the sharpest tools in the box!



But I bet the girls keep you on your toes!


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## Pumpkin the robot (18 Aug 2021)

Flopsy (or Princess Flopsy to give her her full title) is in charge. She is the most immobile (arthritis) but none of the others mess with her and ley her do as she pleases. Thunder is one of those cats that loves being stroked, but only on her terms. I have discovered she has sharp claws if you carry on stroking her after she has given you a warning with her claws tucked in! Storm, the youngest is a carefree, happy cat that does as she pleases and enjoys playing with all the toys and chasing squirrels in the garden, although if she gets too close, she slows down to let them get away!
As I stated, the boys are not that bright. They can be boisterous and frequently fight amongst themselves, but they know their place in the hierarchy.
The one that causes us the most problems, is one of the neighbours cats. She is a very small cat, but suffers from small cat syndrome! All of ours give her a wide berth when she comes in to mine sweep their food.


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## Reynard (18 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> The one that causes us the most problems, is one of the neighbours cats. She is a very small cat, but suffers from small cat syndrome! All of ours give her a wide berth when she comes in to mine sweep their food.



Sounds just like Cosette - a friend's cat. She's only about 2.5kg wet through, but she rules the household (and visitors) with an iron paw.

And yes, she's a tortie. 

My friend has a large enclosed run in her garden, so Cosette can't terrorize the neighbours. But if she could, she probably would.


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## kayakerles (18 Aug 2021)

Hey, now, @Reynard & @Pumpkin the robot, the boyz are listening to this bad-mouthing, ya know!


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## vickster (20 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> We have 3 girls and 3 boys. The boys are not the sharpest tools in the box!


Goes for humans too


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## Pumpkin the robot (20 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> Goes for humans too



I would not disagree with that statment. I know my place!


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## Profpointy (20 Aug 2021)

Re: mousing / rating; our cat as very good at it and mostly eats the mice at least, but that said, we wouldn't have rodents in the house if the cat didn't being live ones in and let them free. To be honest I don't thing cats predating rodents and birds makes much difference to the population as there are plenty of both round where we are, and plenty of cats too.


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## Reynard (20 Aug 2021)

Profpointy said:


> Re: mousing / rating; our cat as very good at it and mostly eats the mice at least, but that said, we wouldn't have rodents in the house if the cat didn't being live ones in and let them free. To be honest I don't thing cats predating rodents and birds makes much difference to the population as there are plenty of both round where we are, and plenty of cats too.


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## kayakerles (21 Aug 2021)

Accy cyclist said:


> My Zeus has gone missing again
> View attachment 604472
> View attachment 604473
> Lyndon Avenue area.
> The same happened a couple of years ago and he came back after 2 weeks…


I was hoping we'd have heard, @Accy, that Zeus would have come home by now, or at least written you a letter to let you know that he would be staying out just a little bit longer. Keep us posted, we will all be glad to know when he has returned. 🐱👍


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## Accy cyclist (21 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> I was hoping we'd have heard, @Accy, that Zeus would have come home by now, or at least written you a letter to let you know that he would be staying out just a little bit longer. Keep us posted, we will all be glad to know when he has returned. 🐱👍




*Barbara Rishton*
*19 August at 15:08* · 

My boy Zeus is still missing






Harwood Bar/Lyndon Avenue area. I last saw him early Friday morning August 13th.
He is 13 years old, chipped and neutered. I just need to know what has happened to him




I'm hoping that he's curled up on someone's couch, warm and safe, but I have my doubts

















Sadly, he's still missing.


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## kayakerles (21 Aug 2021)

We’re still rooting for him, @Accy, remember, by nature our boys are extremely resourceful. Not to mention lovable. But hopefully he’s just exploring, and chilling. He knows where home is, he has ventured far and wide and safely returned before. 
😃👍🏻
Come on now, Zeus, daddy is getting nervous and wants you home.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2021)

Im a cat lover, had 6 since I left the Army.

Three died at a ripe old age, one got run over, the remaining 2 (Lois Griffin and Tibbles) are now 12 and 14. 

None have needed treatment for any illness or injury.

All my cats have either been unwanted pets about to become homeless, or rescue cats. All but one have been girls, as girl cats are generally more affectionate.


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## Poacher (24 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> @Accy cyclist, I hope Zeus comes home soon, and has a good excuse for not telling you he'd be gone for a while! Looking forward to your report (hopefully soon) that he is home again and has offered you his apologies for worrying you. He's a gorgeous boy. Keep us posted.





kayakerles said:


> I was hoping we'd have heard, @Accy, that Zeus would have come home by now, or at least written you a letter to let you know that he would be staying out just a little bit longer. Keep us posted, we will all be glad to know when he has returned. 🐱👍





kayakerles said:


> We’re still rooting for him, @Accy, remember, by nature our boys are extremely resourceful. Not to mention lovable. But hopefully he’s just exploring, and chilling. He knows where home is, he has ventured far and wide and safely returned before.
> 😃👍🏻
> Come on now, Zeus, daddy is getting nervous and wants you home.


Don't quite know how to break this to you @kayakerles , but Accy doesn't have a cat.
He's a grade 1 WUM who is copying Barbara Rishton's posts from his local facebook group, and deriving much amusement from your responses.
Don't give him the pleasure.


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## kayakerles (24 Aug 2021)

Thanks, Poacher, a weird way to be entertained.


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## Saluki (25 Aug 2021)

One of my colleagues adopted 2 street cats from Egypt. Flown in by some cat charity or other. This was 18 months ago. The first 6 months they were in the vets pretty much every week. The male cat was PTS then, she still has the female who has ultra specialised food, forever at the vets with everything from gingivitis to some enzyme disorder of the stomach. She is up to around £10k if spending now.

I have had mogs in the past, free to good home ones from various farms. Never had all this paying out.


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## Accy cyclist (27 Aug 2021)

kayakerles said:


> I never had furry friends growing up, except for a parakeet. Okay, technically that was a feathered friend. 25 years ago I got a taste of living with cat. Now we're married and we have shared our various abodes with between 1 - 3 kitties ever since. Such a silly thread, “Are cats sickly little beasts?” Except that I knew I'd get to hear stories from other fellow cat-people, and meet some new vibrissae-ed faces.
> 
> Don’t care for cats? Don’t bring them into your life. Same for dogs or other people for that matter. We’re all free to choose. All of our kitties have been rescues. They've all brought more to our lives than anything money could buy. 👍🏻
> 
> ...



Sadly he's still missing.

**STILL MISSING**
Last seen Lynfield Road, Great Harwood, 13th August 2021.
It's been 2 weeks since I last saw my boy Zeus





I want to thank everyone who has messaged me with possible sightings of him.
My other fur-baby Athena crossed over the Rainbow bridge earlier this year, heart failure






Her ashes are on my fire place where she loved to lie.
I've lost family and friends over the last couple of years and
I cannot take anymore loss




I just need to know what has happened to my boy.
I am putting up a few posters in the area today, hopefully someone will be feeding him and realise he already has a home


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## cyberknight (4 Sep 2021)

our cat bought a mouse in nearly a week ago , we now have 5 traps and rodent poison around the house and the bloody thing is still about.Found out its eating the bait off the trap ( non poisonous ) and its not setting off the trap  .
Getting pissed off now as some areas smell like wee , boxed the mouse in an area last night and sealed the gaps so it couldnt get out and apparently the cat got in and got it out but didnt kill it so its now behind the display cabinet .
TBH about had enough of the cat as much as we love it we have had enough of this all the time


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## KnittyNorah (4 Sep 2021)

cyberknight said:


> our cat bought a mouse in nearly a week ago ...we have had enough of this all the time


I presume the cat can come and go freely eg cat door or similar? I used to have this problem until I limited where the cat could enter and what it could access, once it entered the house - I changed her access point to a small window in what had been a built-on afterthought downstairs lavatory, and set it up as 'her' space to enter if she wanted to come in 'independently'. I made sure there was no egress point for even the smallest rodent - if you can stick a pencil in, a mouse can get in - put in a preferred piece of fleece on a cushion in a big box for the cat, and some of her favourite food, and a couple of cardboard boxes of different sizes but far too small for the cat to get in (to persuade any rodent to go into a box as the safest retreat spot. 
Apart from anything else, having to jump - albeit only a few feet, and onto a very wide windowledge - with a mouse, or bird, in the mouth, was more difficult than coming straight in through a cat door, and I often found bits of mouse on the path outside where the cat had clearly decided to eat what bits she fancied rather than struggle with carrying the takeaway and risking dropping it. So fewer mice were being brought in in the first place.
When she did succeed in bringing a mouse in, it was enclosed within the four walls of the lavatory and when I went to check on the cat and let her into the house 'proper', I could check for rodents with little to no risk of any entering the house as any the cat had brought in live would be hiding in or behind one of the cardboard boxes I had placed for that purpose. 
It took a few weeks of vigilance and plenty of her favourite food served ONLY in her 'private entrance parlour' to get her to 'convert' reliably to using the 'lavatory entrance' rather than her standing outside the back door miaowing at her now-closed cat door, but it worked fine, except occasionally in high summer when the back door was left open in good weather - but that was never the 'busy season' for mice anyway; autumn was the busy season.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Sep 2021)

slowmotion said:


> I don't own one. and I'm not a big fan of the species. I seem to have a large number of friends who spend vast amounts of money at the veterinary surgeon so that their unhealthy feline monsters they can continue to crap in secret corners. Seems rum to me.



It's a conspiracy: cats run the world and are siphoning currency to their massive bank accounts. Vets are complicit.

This is why cats disappear: they're spending the money.

It's also why they always look so smug.


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## cyberknight (4 Sep 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> I presume the cat can come and go freely eg cat door or similar? I used to have this problem until I limited where the cat could enter and what it could access, once it entered the house - I changed her access point to a small window in what had been a built-on afterthought downstairs lavatory, and set it up as 'her' space to enter if she wanted to come in 'independently'. I made sure there was no egress point for even the smallest rodent - if you can stick a pencil in, a mouse can get in - put in a preferred piece of fleece on a cushion in a big box for the cat, and some of her favourite food, and a couple of cardboard boxes of different sizes but far too small for the cat to get in (to persuade any rodent to go into a box as the safest retreat spot.
> Apart from anything else, having to jump - albeit only a few feet, and onto a very wide windowledge - with a mouse, or bird, in the mouth, was more difficult than coming straight in through a cat door, and I often found bits of mouse on the path outside where the cat had clearly decided to eat what bits she fancied rather than struggle with carrying the takeaway and risking dropping it. So fewer mice were being brought in in the first place.
> When she did succeed in bringing a mouse in, it was enclosed within the four walls of the lavatory and when I went to check on the cat and let her into the house 'proper', I could check for rodents with little to no risk of any entering the house as any the cat had brought in live would be hiding in or behind one of the cardboard boxes I had placed for that purpose.
> It took a few weeks of vigilance and plenty of her favourite food served ONLY in her 'private entrance parlour' to get her to 'convert' reliably to using the 'lavatory entrance' rather than her standing outside the back door miaowing at her now-closed cat door, but it worked fine, except occasionally in high summer when the back door was left open in good weather - but that was never the 'busy season' for mice anyway; autumn was the busy season.


unfortunately the chip controlled cat flap is in the kitchen and due to lay out of the property and cost it cannot be changed


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## KnittyNorah (4 Sep 2021)

cyberknight said:


> unfortunately the chip controlled cat flap is in the kitchen and due to lay out of the property and cost it cannot be changed


Oh well that puts paid to that idea ... I suppose you could always restrict the times it's allowed out and back in, but knowing cats it will either try to blackmail you or try to leave home for what it thinks are greener pastures ...


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## fossyant (4 Sep 2021)

cyberknight said:


> our cat bought a mouse in nearly a week ago , we now have 5 traps and rodent poison around the house and the bloody thing is still about.Found out its eating the bait off the trap ( non poisonous ) and its not setting off the trap  .
> Getting pissed off now as some areas smell like wee , boxed the mouse in an area last night and sealed the gaps so it couldnt get out and apparently the cat got in and got it out but didnt kill it so its now behind the display cabinet .
> TBH about had enough of the cat as much as we love it we have had enough of this all the time



I cought ours bringing one in last night. Fortunately caught it and popped it outside with a saucer of water as it was in a bit of shock. These are house cats, but have a 'run' in the garden - poor mouse must have got in through the wire.


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## cyberknight (5 Sep 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Oh well that puts paid to that idea ... I suppose you could always restrict the times it's allowed out and back in, but knowing cats it will either try to blackmail you or try to leave home for what it thinks are greener pastures ...


its already known to partake at another house , we found out when we walked to the corner shop with the cat following us and a lady said it came into her house .


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## Blue Hills (17 Sep 2021)

gbb said:


> I see that too (anyone seen this cat ?)
> For chrissakes, they're quite capable of looking after themselves and bear allegiance to no-one .
> Day after day In our local FB page, you'll see pictures of ungrateful cats and pleading messages from hapless 'owners'.


Was reminded of your "ungrateful cats" post today by this - here for your dossier:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-58597174

The cat was apparently only two miles away.
Well cats wander a fair bit and are also, we are told by their fans, pretty damn clever.
Wouldn't one expect it to maybe have wandered a mile towards where it was found in its previous life, and a mile back towards its former home in its later life? And therefore have recognised something and been able to find its way back? If it had wanted to?


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## Mike_P (17 Sep 2021)

Could depend what was in the two miles, say it had managed to cling onto a cars chassis originally and when it left it was on the other side of a watercourse.


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## Accy cyclist (30 Sep 2021)

kayakerles said:


> Thanks, Poacher, a weird way to be entertained.


That's quite untrue! I do not gain some kind of pleasure from such things at all! I'm an animal (no matter what type) lover and feel saddened that someone would think/say that about me. I posted the info' about Zeus in good faith, seeing as you asked me earlier to 'keep us updated'. Yes, i don't have a cat, but i've never said i did own one. I've waited quite a while to post this due to certain circumstances! i hope you accept my explanation of why i posted about Zeus!
By the way, Zeus was found safe and well about 3 weeks ago!!


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## kayakerles (30 Sep 2021)

Whatever, Acy. Poacher had posted (as I am sure you have read) “Don't quite know how to break this to you @kayakerles , but Accy doesn't have a cat. He's a grade 1 WUM who is copying Barbara Rishton's posts from his local facebook group, and deriving much amusement from your responses. Don't give him the pleasure.” You never responded to his statement (it seems he knows you) so I was left without really knowing what to believe. I'm not judging, I'm just done. Either way, enough for me.

FWIW, Poacher has said positive things about you too. This is just a forum. Anyone can (mostly) say whatever they want.


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## Accy cyclist (30 Sep 2021)

kayakerles said:


> Whatever, Acy. Poacher had posted (as I am sure you have read) “Don't quite know how to break this to you @kayakerles , but Accy doesn't have a cat. He's a grade 1 WUM who is copying Barbara Rishton's posts from his local facebook group, and deriving much amusement from your responses. Don't give him the pleasure.” You never responded to his statement (it seems he knows you) so I was left without really knowing what to believe. I'm not judging, I'm just done. Either way, enough for me.
> 
> FWIW, Poacher has said positive things about you too. This is just a forum. Anyone can (mostly) say whatever they want.


Fair enough. Anyway, i just thought i'd let you know that Zeus the cat was found safe and well.🐱 I've scrolled down that Facebook page, but i can't find it (yet). If i find it i'll copy and post it.


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