# HGV Cyclist Safety Campaign



## ttcycle (27 Jan 2010)

Ok folks this is linked with the time for action thread started by magnatom but it's so long it's pretty impractical - going to sum up the campaign to date on this new thread.

Met with Charlie Lloyd from LCC today and have a few things to report.

Will write more later

EDIT: Will post soon-ish-ish - this is taking longer than I thought it would to sum it up and have a few quite urgent non CC things to attend to at the mo.


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## Origamist (27 Jan 2010)

A timely bifurcation TT - the TfA thread is a bit unwieldy due to its size and is losing impetus. I look forward to your write-up.


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## Origamist (17 Feb 2010)

The Freight Operator Recognition Scheme is running various workshops looking at driver fitness/impairment and other work related road safety issues. 

This particular seminar caught my eye as it seems very worthwhile. The problem is, as I understand it, less than 5% of HGV operators have joined the FORS. Surely, this should be a compulsory scheme, or at the very least, favour companies who sign up to FORS? 


> *Crash investigation and analysis*
> 
> *Thursday 25 March 2010*
> Welcome and introductions: 08:30 - 09:00
> ...



http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/fors/default.aspx


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## classic33 (17 Feb 2010)

Do you think that a group of cyclists would be welcome at the event? 
Presumably they list us amongst "vulnerable road users", and letting them see our viewpoint, literally, can only help. Maybe we can all leave with a better understanding of the others views.


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## Origamist (18 Feb 2010)

classic33 said:


> Do you think that a group of cyclists would be welcome at the event?
> Presumably they list us amongst "vulnerable road users", and letting them see our viewpoint, literally, can only help. Maybe we can all leave with a better understanding of the others views.



I don't know. I suspect there will be input from cyclists or the LCC in preparing the workshop (and possibly a screening of the TFL video), but I doubt there will be a cycle campaigner present. 

I'll email them to find out more about the content of the course.


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## Origamist (21 Feb 2010)

"Victory for safety campaigners as police HGV safety unit reinstated"

http://road.cc/node/14810


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## ttcycle (23 Feb 2010)

excellent news.

Sorry I still haven't written the report back.

Just a lot of stuff on at the moment and stuff that urgently needs sorting. Haven't forgot but need life to settle down a little first before taking up the reigns again- apologies.


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## Origamist (25 Feb 2010)

*London Crossrail lorry drivers to be given cyclist awareness training*

*London Crossrail lorry drivers to be given cyclist awareness training*

http://road.cc/content/news/15028-crossrail-lorry-drivers-be-given-cyclist-awareness-training


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## Origamist (24 Mar 2010)

HGV strategy in Copenhagen - some interesting ideas:

http://www.kk.dk/~/media/B44FDEB26B8341518FB83CE9742001A7.ashx


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## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

Danish vid on blind spots (cross posted in commuting):


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7N9X0s_aXo&feature=player_embedded


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## magnatom (31 Mar 2010)

Ah, you've posted it here as well. Good video.

Remember guys, I am still holding the money for our own video. ttcycle has some possible good contacts and leads, but she is otherwise busy at the moment. This isn't forgotten. just on hold at the moment.


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## Origamist (7 Apr 2010)

Lots of lorries in London:

*UK’s biggest continuous concrete pour*

A 36-hour continuous concrete pour will take place on-site at The Shard, scheduled to begin 6pm on Friday 16 April and end on the morning of Sunday 18 April. This will involve 700 lorries over the 36 hour period (15 per hour), delivering circa 5,500 m3 into Basement 3 – this will be the largest ever continuous pour in the UK. 

http://www.betterbankside.co.uk/news/development-news/1837-the-shard


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## magnatom (7 Apr 2010)

Origamist said:


> Lots of lorries in London:
> 
> *UK’s biggest continuous concrete pour*
> 
> ...




Glad I'm not in London then. These guys will have tight schedules to keep to. Hopefully that won't mean more risk taking......


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## psmiffy (7 Apr 2010)

it is a bit misleading though the capacity of most truck mixers is 4.5 cu m. sometimes 6 - and they would be on turn and turn about - still a lot of lorry trips though


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## classic33 (19 Apr 2010)

*Magnatom*
Reason for not putting on here what I sent to you. I don't want the company involved to feel that they are under unfair pressure.
Also the fact that Iv'e asked if personal details can be passed on. 

Whatever the outcome, I'll let everyone that has been involved on here, know.
But at present we have a national company that may be willing to help in the making of this video. With that bit in mind, can I ask how those who have taken part how they feel about the companies drivers explaining their point of view on the video.

From the outset it has been the intention to try & educate all sides to try & reduce the numbers.

*Also posted on "Time For Action"*


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## User169 (21 Apr 2010)

Some of the children at my daughter's school had some training recently in relation to HGVs (7/8 years olds I think). It was called the "dode hoek" project which translates as "dead corner" or blind spot and the kids had a chance to sit in the cab to get a sense of what drivers can and can't see. It was nice to see the issue addressed from an early age; might of course help too if they grow up to be HGV drivers.


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## ttcycle (28 Apr 2010)

classic33- excellent- can you pm me details - life is pretty crazy and in limbo at the moment but that sounds like fantastic news - if there is company hgv input then that is fantastic - I was always under the impression that if we got someone on board we would have to tweak things a little as well. I think I might have a solution to camera crew since Jake's no longer on the board.

If I don't reply- it's cause my net access is a bit unpredictable at present but will reply asap


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## classic33 (28 Apr 2010)

ttcycle said:


> classic33- excellent- can you pm me details - life is pretty crazy and in limbo at the moment but that sounds like fantastic news - if there is company hgv input then that is fantastic - I was always under the impression that if we got someone on board we would have to tweak things a little as well. I think I might have a solution to camera crew since Jake's no longer on the board.
> 
> If I don't reply- it's cause my net access is a bit unpredictable at present but will reply asap



Done


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## ttcycle (6 Jun 2010)

Hello folks, 

not on here for very long but just some questions.

What would we like to achieve? What organisations do we want to work with?
It seems like there are a 100 and 1 different things that people want to campaign for in relation to HGV issues, it might be an idea to try and link in with others to get a more concerted approach as all the different groups have a rather scatter gun approach at the moment.

That's my pennies worth for today.
Hope to be back onto this soon.


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## classic33 (6 Jun 2010)

I think Magnatom got the closest on his opening post in "Time For Action" with regards what wanted doing.
That being to raise the awareness of the dangers of getting too close to a lorry which may end up turning across your path. 

*Lorry having moved to the right will be turning right, not left. Why would it go to the right if they want to go left?*


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## ttcycle (6 Jun 2010)

i agree with your sentiments classic on the educational side but also have to highlight that to focus on education of cyclists may be limiting plus, psychologically and what often is a problem with perceptions of police after accidents is blame of the cyclist for doing something wrong which may not have always been the case. 

Do you know what I mean? However nuts and bolts this campaign is to basically say on one element - those that don't know, don't filter up the left. However, there are more things.


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## classic33 (8 Jun 2010)

I thought it was to raise awarness, on allsides, with regards what each can do to try & prevent this type of incident. Whilst at the same time showing what can be done to try to reduce the number of incidents.

Some cyclists are not aware that drivers of LGV's need to move out more to the centre of a road when turning left. Thinking there is now space they go up the inside.
The view from the cab can be restrictive for the driver making the turn. Not many people like being caught behind one, especially when it takes up road centre as though it is going to be turning right & not left. The concentration of the driver will be on the things that he can see, or saw & have now been lost from sight. Cyclists are small when compared to a small car.

As for the police blaming the cyclist in an accident. Been there, had that done & set out to prove them wrong & did so. Hit by a drink driver, driving a car with no lights, which wasn't his. I was on the main road, he joined from a side road. Taking me on the bonnet & the bike in front of the vehicle halfway across the road, sideways.

Police & driver initially agreed that I was at fault for being on the road. At night, whilst fully lit up.

Been purposely sideswiped by a lorry on a busy local A-road in the morning rush hour. Spoke to some other drivers from the same company & for me that was better than complaining to the company. They "had words with him" even coming out to let me know they had.


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## ttcycle (9 Jun 2010)

bloody hell classic...what a awful off!
Still, fantastic progress made about awareness.

I knew what you meant re the above but as this thread/threads have been going for some time; it's good to get a recap.


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## Origamist (28 Jun 2010)

*Letter to Keltbray & reply*

http://thebikeshow.net/letter-to-keltbray-reply/


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## Origamist (2 Jul 2010)

"Cyclists and lorries: how technology can help":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/jul/02/cycling-lorries-women-roads


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## classic33 (2 Jul 2010)

That starts shifting the blame onto the driver. Not what was wanted at the start of this.

Educate all on what the others can & cannot see. 
Not place the blame on one party.


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## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

*Mayor and TfL announce major initiatives to improve cycle safety around lorries: *

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/16139.aspx


*The FTA/ TfL Memorandum of Understanding on Cycling *

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/memorandum-of-understanding-on-cycling.pdf

New Think! poster:


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## classic33 (7 Jul 2010)

Poster is mis leading and not strictly true. Aside from the fact that there is "blindspot" mirror fitted. 

As said before this statred as an attempt to try & educate both sides to the danger. Not to lay the blame soley on one party.

*Lets remenber that.*


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## Origamist (7 Jul 2010)

classic33 said:


> Poster is mis leading and not strictly true. Aside from the fact that there is "blindspot" mirror fitted.
> 
> *As said before this statred as an attempt to try & educate both sides to the danger. Not to lay the blame soley on one party.*
> 
> *Lets remenber that.*



What are you going on about. The poster is trying to *educate* cyclists going up the nearside of a HGV - it's not about *blame*.


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## ttcycle (30 Jul 2010)

Ok folks

still a bit short of time but lets get this show back on the road!!!

We have some cash- is the vid still a viable option?


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## magnatom (1 Aug 2010)

Money? What money? 

Yes I think the video is still a go-er. I'm also wondering if there could be some connection with jonny jeez commute guide. Maybe launch publicity for both at the same time. 

So who is still on board, or do we need to make a new call?


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## classic33 (1 Aug 2010)

magnatom said:


> Money? What money?
> 
> Yes I think the video is still a go-er. I'm also wondering if there could be some connection with jonny jeez commute guide. Maybe launch publicity for both at the same time.
> 
> So who is still on board, or do we need to make a new call?





Still here & still trying to get support from within the industry itself. 

If I were to seek camera footage, giving the drivers view point, from the companies would it be usable.


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## Origamist (14 Oct 2010)

*Sideguards on heavy goods vehicles: assessing the effects on pedal cyclists injured by trucks overtaking or turning left* 

(register to dowload the full report)

http://www.trl.co.uk...urning_left.htm


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## dellzeqq (21 Nov 2010)

Does anybody think that this is worthwhile?

Dear Mr.Ms. (H+S Director)

You may have read about the tragic death of Catriona Patel. Catriona was killed by a truck owned by Thames Materials which turned left across her. The driver, Dennis Putz, had been drinking, and he was on his mobile phone when he ran over Catriona. Putz is now starting a seven year jail sentence.

None of this needed to happen. Thames Materials employed Putz despite his appalling record. He had twice been jailed for driving offences. He’d been caught driving while disqualified sixteen times. Either Thames Materials didn’t check, or they didn’t care. 

We’re pretty sure that you care. Main Contractors have invested endless hours and millions of pounds in Health and Safety on site, and with commendable results. For this we’re all grateful, but we would like you to go one step further. Construction vehicles wreak a terrible cost in lives across London. You can make a difference. 

We’re asking Main Contractors to commit to the following 

- To gain a commitment from all subcontractors and suppliers that they will not send people with driving convictions to your sites.

- To gain a commitment from all subcontractors and suppliers that they will ensure that by December 31[sup]st[/sup] 2011 all HGV drivers in their employ, whether salaried or not, will be required to undertake training courses sanctioned by the London Cycling Campaign within a month of starting in their employ.

- To gain a commitment from all subcontractors and suppliers that they will ensure that passenger side mirrors on all their commercial vehicles will allow drivers to see cyclists and pedestrians on their left hand side.

We don’t suggest for a second that cyclists should not do their best to keep out of harm’s way, but Catriona didn’t have that option - she was run over from behind by a man who just didn’t care enough to stay sober and refrain from making a telephone call, a man whose record was so appalling that he should never have been let anywhere near the cab of an HGV

We’re looking for a Main Contractor to set a standard that others will follow. Will that be you?


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## gaz (21 Nov 2010)

I wouldn't say it's waisted breath. If they say yes, then great.


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## hatler (28 Nov 2010)

dellzeqq said:


> Does anybody think that this is worthwhile?
> 
> Dear Mr.Ms. (H+S Director)
> 
> ...



Cool.

Has anyone got a list of main contractors ready to hand ?


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## tonyhgv (5 Feb 2011)

classic33 said:


> Poster is mis leading and not strictly true. Aside from the fact that there is "blindspot" mirror fitted.
> 
> As said before this statred as an attempt to try & educate both sides to the danger. Not to lay the blame soley on one party.
> 
> *Lets remenber that. As a 44 ton hgv class 1 driver* who has a mountain bike and a yamaha 1300 xjr motorbike ,car and does regular truck runs to the city of london...this poster is correct and i will tell you why..there is no blindspot mirror on the nearside...there are two mirrors the long one is for normal use but no good once you start turning left and the one at top of door is called a kerbside mirror and that is used for watching the nearside front when reversing in tight spots...if you look at all new( from about 2006) hgv`s there are two more smaller mirrors on both sides placed under long mirror THESE are blindspot mirrors...and in reply to woman killed by truck..if as stated he had been disqualified 16 times there is no way he was an hgv driver ..he would not have got his hgv licence back espeicially for drink driving offences...car licence yes..if you past your car driving test before 1997 you can drive any truck or van upto 7.5 ton on that licence,they are NOT hgv`s.......remember there are good and bad road users in/on all vehicles/bikes etc


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## Bikepeter (24 Apr 2011)

I recently had the misfortune of losing a friend in a cycle accident. She was run over by an HGV after being caught in its blind spot.

It has reopened the debate on cycle safety at crossroads especially busy ones in London about whether more can be done to help reduce the blind spot for HGV's when turning left.

A cheap and effective way of doing this is using the trixiemirror which is attached to the street lights and is used to great effect in Switzerland & Germany already.

This mirrow is incredibly cheap and could be installed tomorrow.

To help with this debate and to try to stop any other lives from being ruined I am trying to make a difference to the safety of the streets.

For more information on this debate take a look at the below petition which has been created in the name of my deceased friend, and I would also be interested in hearing your comments about the suggestion of the trixiemirror and if you think it would save lives.

Peter 


http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/boris-install-mirrors-that-save-cyclists-lives-petiti.html


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