# A bicycle trailer for camping and sleeping on.



## delport (10 Jan 2011)

A bicycle trailer for camping and sleeping on

Anyone interested in this subject of building a bicycle trailer that can be used as a bed?

I'm currently building one, after looking at what could be bought for around £100, and seeing trailers for carrying very little weight and fairly small too.The argos trailer at £100 is an example of small and unable to carry much weight.
Mine will be 6 1/2 feet in length, and be able to carry above 13 stone in weight.Visibly the trailer will only appear to be 4 feet long, the extra 2 1/2 foot platform will fold into the first section of the trailer,i may just use hinges for that section.This part is my own concept, partly influenced by something i saw on the web.

I have recently wild camped 23 nights in a row, so i thought it time now to create something solid to sleep on rather than just sleeping on any old patch of grass with tree roots and rocks under me.

Cost of the trailer so far has mostly been made up of buying power tools, as i had next to nothing before i began.
Cost of wood and materials has been above £50 but under £100 so far.

I found 2 bike frames over the last few months, and 2 wheels.So that part is free.

The difficult parts i find of building a trailer are setting the wheels up correctly, so that they can be safe and not beyond control, sometimes i go down hills at 30 to 40 mph, i don't think i'm going to get away with those speeds with a trailer though.I am probably going to fit brakes.The trailer arm is the other tricky part.

After lots of thought, and some advice, i've worked out a way to secure the wheels using the headset of the 2 old bikes, this involves using part of the frame of a bike, and the headset and fork.This in theory should provide an ultra strong set up, only the headset and the fork will be visible at the side of the trailer, the main frame of the bike goes under the trailer and provides strength to the headset and fork.
A person suggested to put the wheels as far back as possible on the trailer rather than up at the front, to help with steering so i am doing that.

So far i've been doing a lot of cutting and sanding.My base is made of 4 foot by 2 foot plywood cost £17, and i cut up an aluminium step ladder to use somewhere on the trailer, i have 3 aluminium ladders so didn't need the one i cut.Step ladders can carry 15 stone in weight,and is lightweight, so that was my logic behind using it.So far i've used the aluminium as a trailer handle, it also gives me something to design the trailer arm around.


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## mark barker (10 Jan 2011)

I've built a couple of trailers in the past, and once you get the basic frame sorted they really do come together quickly. Not sure about using plywood as a base, sounds pretty heavy for little gain. A while back I saw a trailer/tent combo that had a fabric (nylon?) base. This seemed to work well. I am curious about how you're planning on running the brakes on the trailer...


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## delport (10 Jan 2011)

mark barker said:


> I've built a couple of trailers in the past, and once you get the basic frame sorted they really do come together quickly. Not sure about using plywood as a base, sounds pretty heavy for little gain. A while back I saw a trailer/tent combo that had a fabric (nylon?) base. This seemed to work well. I am curious about how you're planning on running the brakes on the trailer...



Haven't thought a lot about the brakes yet, but i have seen a similar sized trailer with brakes working fine.Here is a picture of that bike trailer i saw
http://s270.photobuc...nt=DSCN4148.jpg
the owner and i cycled together for a few hours.
p.s: he doesn't sell ice cream or hot dogs out of the trailer.
The trailer carries a guitar and amplifier round europe for months on end.The owner spends nearly all year cycling round europe.


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## mcshroom (10 Jan 2011)

I'm trying to figure out how the brake works on that thing. Do you have a third lever or is it attached to the rear brake in some way?


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## delport (10 Jan 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I'm trying to figure out how the brake works on that thing. Do you have a third lever or is it attached to the rear brake in some way?



not sure how it works really.
Here are 2 more photos of that trailer
http://s270.photobuc...nt=DSCN4147.jpg
http://s270.photobuc...nt=DSCN4146.jpg

I've just noticed he has a gold handled 3rd brake lever in the middle from what i can see in the 2nd picture.

I took some video footage of him and the trailer to check how it ran, but the video is all from the back.

His trailer cost £250 to put together and he set the wheels at an angle rather than setting them in a traditional way.
The trailer handled quite well, though it was very heavy and he struggled on hills.


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## mark barker (10 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> His trailer cost £250 to put together and he set the wheels at an angle rather than setting them in a traditional way.
> The trailer handled quite well, though it was very heavy and he struggled on hills.


Having a small amount of camber on the wheels (top of the wheel leaning in slightly) does make quite a difference to the stability of trailers, but it can add a lot of wear to tyres and bearings if overdone. 

Assuming the brakes are cable operated, I guess the easiest way to make them work would be to use a spring mechanism in the towing arm so that the brakes are applied automatically if the trailer starts to accelerate towards the bike (ie the bike has slowed down or is going down hill). The same concept is used on braked trailers for cars.


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## mcshroom (10 Jan 2011)

mark barker said:


> Assuming the brakes are cable operated, I guess the easiest way to make them work would be to use a spring mechanism in the towing arm so that the brakes are applied automatically if the trailer starts to accelerate towards the bike (ie the bike has slowed down or is going down hill). The same concept is used on braked trailers for cars.



That would make sense, and would solve the problem I could see that any connection to the bikes braking system would mean messy cable fiddling every time you wanted to disconnect the trailer


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## mark barker (10 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> The trailer arm is the other tricky part.


The trailers I've built had the arm attached as per your picture (ie to one side of the bike frame, attached using the rear wheel nut). I've found that with an empty trailer this is fine, but if the weight starts to increase it can cause curious handling, especially under braking. I also have a trailgator for towing my daughters bike, and this attaches to the seat post and feels far more stable. Not sure if this type of attachment could be used for a trailer, but might be worth considering. I've also seen a trailer being attached to the centre of the rear of the bike by using a bracket fitted to the rear of the bike (it looked a little like a tow bar on a car), again fitted to the rear wheel nuts, but this time on both sides. I figured this would reduce the handling issues with the traditional fitting.


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## chillyuk (10 Jan 2011)

I wouldn't waste my time. just go the whole hog:

My link


maybe some interesting (and serious) ideas here if you haven't already seen it:

Camping trailers


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## Amanda P (10 Jan 2011)

Here's one I built a couple of years ago; there have been others, but this one's my favourite and I still have it (now it's powder coated bright yellow).

A couple of points come to mind.

Brakes on the trailer seem like a good idea, but they're going to add quite a bit of complication, especially if you try to come up with some sort of automatically-applied mechanism, like the overrun brakes on car trailers. I think to make such a thing would need quite a bit of engineering know-how, and loads of maintenance and adjustment. 

If you add an extra brake lever to the bike, the problem will be that when you really need the trailer brakes, your hands will be full with working the bike's own brakes. What might work would be a drag brake on the trailer, similar to the setups some people have with a third brake on a tandem. Sometimes these are worked with an old-fashioned friction down-tube gear lever. The drag brake is engaged at the top of the hill and disengaged at the bottom - no further attention needed.

On a trailer, though, you'll also need a brake for each wheel. And if they aren't precisely balanced, the trailer will tend to slew to one side. Keeping them balanced could be tricky - unless you apply more engineering and further complication. (Look at caravan or car trailer brakes to see how they're balanced - but there's no weight concern there! - and they still tend to malfunction unless scrupulously maintained).

If your trailer is going to use 700C wheels, and sit above the axles, it's going to ride fairly high off the ground. If you're planning to carry any serious weight on it, consider using smaller wheels which will give the whole thing a lower centre of gravity. That will make it very much more stable. Smaller wheels are also generally stiffer and stronger.

A lower-riding trailer will tend to affect the towing bike's handling less than a tall one.

Having the trailer wheels behind the balance point is a good idea, as you don't want the trailer to be tail-heavy. If it's tail-heavy enough, when you get off the bike, the trailer will see-saw and lift the back of the bike off the ground. Trailers in general handle better if they're slightly nose-heavy. BUT if it's too nose-heavy, you're putting a lot of load on the point of the bike to which it's hitched. Make sure it can handle the extra load. Load the trailer thoutfully. My advice would be to have around 2/3 of the load in front of the axle. You'll see my trailer has the axle 2/3 of the way along its load bed.

If the bike frame can handle the downward weight of the trailer on the hitch, consider too, that, without brakes on the trailer, on a downhill there'll be quite a bit of force pushing forward from the trailer onto the bike frame. On an uphill, the same force will be dragging back on that point. 

And while I'm talking about forces, consider too that dynamic forces from a trailer moving along the road can be several times higher than the static forces you see when it's standing still. They get a hard time and need to be tough.

Trailers also tend to waggle and vibrate a bit on their small wheels, so anything fastened to the trailer will need to be fastened in a secure and vibration-resistant way. The same applies to fastenings that are part of the construction of the trailer.

Keep the weight on the bike (you and any load) more than the weight on the trailer. Towing a trailer that weighs more than you do can lead to the tail wagging the dog in a seriously scary way!

For all these reasons, I'd urge you to consider the following:

Make a steel frame for your trailer. Steel is cheap, tough and elastic (handles and absorbs vibration well). That's why it's always been used for bike frames! Weld it or braze it together or find someone who can do that for you. It needn't cost much. 

Use small wheels.

Don't load the trailer too much - split the load between the bike and the trailer so that the trailer will be lighter. (That'd save you having to unload it before you slept on it anyway).


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## snorri (10 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> Here is a picture of that bike trailer i saw



Hi delport, do you realise you have given access to 272 of your pics with that link?
I haven't looked at them, well I did look at 3 of them.


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## psmiffy (10 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> Haven't thought a lot about the brakes yet, but i have seen a similar sized trailer with brakes working fine.Here is a picture of that bike trailer i saw
> http://s270.photobuc...nt=DSCN4148.jpg
> the owner and i cycled together for a few hours.
> p.s: he doesn't sell ice cream or hot dogs out of the trailer.
> The trailer carries a guitar and amplifier round europe for months on end.The owner spends nearly all year cycling round europe.



The guy towing it wasn't a scot was he? Looks like a posh version of a trailer that was behind a bloke I met on the Col Mont Cenis about 15years ago - contained about 10 litres of cheap red wine - he had also infilled the frame of the bike with aluminium cabinets which contained his tool kit


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## delport (10 Jan 2011)

psmiffy said:


> The guy towing it wasn't a scot was he? Looks like a posh version of a trailer that was behind a bloke I met on the Col Mont Cenis about 15years ago - contained about 10 litres of cheap red wine - he had also infilled the frame of the bike with aluminium cabinets which contained his tool kit



No, he was a Londoner,,born in the east end

He spends every year cycling, doesn’t have a home,

The picture shows trailer mark 3, mark 1 was a basic halfords type trailer that wore out.

I think his trailer looks great.There are solar panels on it too.



Thanks for all the comments,I’m still reading them.

To poster Uncle phil 
thanks for all the advice, unfortunately i began building the trailer a few days ago, and the base is plywood.Which i've started building around, at the moment i'm cutting space for the bike frame to go under the trailer.
The only wheels i have are mountain bike wheels, the idea was to try and make it all for something near £100.I realise mountain bike wheels aren't ideal,i would have preferred something smaller.

I do need help with the trailer arm, how to make a trailer arm without welding?I was planning to have the trailer connected up centrally, i've bolted the top section of an aluminium ladder to the very top centre of the plywood.

Although the plywood is 2 foot across, i don't feel limited to only having that amount of space.2 foot is barely enough room to breathe, there are ways to make the trailer temporarily wider,something that can fold back onto the base of the trailer,ideally i'm looking for it to be as wide as a 2 man tent for night time use.
I'm trying to keep the trailer narrow as cycle paths often have bollards that i feel the trailer would catch on.

And i'm beginning to go off the idea off having brakes on the trailer, after what you said.


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## delport (10 Jan 2011)

snorri said:


> Hi delport, do you realise you have given access to 272 of your pics with that link?
> I haven't looked at them, well I did look at 3 of them.



yes no problem, i knew, i don' t have anything to hide.


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## ufkacbln (10 Jan 2011)

For a true nomadic bike lifestyle... BEHEMOTH!
The trailer carried:



> *Trailer*
> 
> 72-watt Solarex photovoltaic array (4.8 Amps at 12V)
> Qualcomm OmniTRACS satellite terminal
> ...



THe bike carried:



> *Console*
> 
> Macintosh 68K (control GUI and primary workspace)
> Bicycle Control Processor (FORTH 68HC11)
> ...


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## delport (11 Jan 2011)

As for weight, i won't be putting more than 4 panniers on it, difficult to carry all those panniers on a bike, i did that on my john o'groats trip, but not that heavy in mass weight for the trailer.The whole thing is geared around essentially being a bed.

I reckon this trailer will end up weighing 50 lbs with nothing on it.

And i do have the possibility of making the wheels quick release so that the entire trailer can lay at near ground level.If i don't do it that way i will make foldable legs to steady the trailer for sleeping,the wheel is just beyond the middle of the trailer if looked upon as a 6 1/2 ft base unit.[see photos].
http://s270.photobuc...ailer%20photos/

I can see advantages in day to day use of making it strong to carry around the odd heavy item locally.Shopping for instance.

I have plans to cycle to Gibraltar, it is then i would need this type of trailer.As i'd be doing many days wild camping.With the trailer all i'd need is tree cover and push the trailer into that area to camp.No more messing around with finding the ideal type of ground to put a tent on.Sometimes i walk around for ages trying to find a good spot for camping, and it is often in total darkness at the end of a days cycling.

There is a link above to photos i took today of the work in progress, i've got some bolt trimming to do on the ladder section, and you can see the notches i'm sawing out to fit the cycle frame into, they are not quite finished yet, you can also see just how far back the wheel wil be in the 4 ft plywood, with another section to be added to that end later.

Both forks are almost finished, one fork is a bit bigger than the other, which i'll need to get round.And i'll remove the disk brake mechanism from the chunkier of the forks.


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## trickletreat (11 Jan 2011)

Have you seen these before? http://www.midgetcampers.com.au/bushtrekka.htm


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## delport (11 Jan 2011)

trickletreat said:


> Have you seen these before? http://www.midgetcam.../bushtrekka.htm



Yes, i think i spotted that website recently.

If i had a lot of spare cash may'be i would go for a ready built trailer.

The way i am doing it is to just spend small amounts now and then.

Here is a video i made of the other trailer in france, it's a 4 minute video.

View: http://vimeo.com/18662029


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## trickletreat (11 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> Yes, i think i spotted that website recently.
> 
> If i had a lot of spare cash may'be i would go for a ready built trailer.
> 
> ...




homemade is more rewarding, just posted the link for design ideas


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## Amanda P (11 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> I do need help with the trailer arm, how to make a trailer arm without welding?I was planning to have the trailer connected up centrally, i've bolted the top section of an aluminium ladder to the very top centre of the plywood.



A central trailer arm will need to form a bridge over the back wheel of the bike. You might be able to find part of a bike frame that would do this, but you still have the problem of fixing it really securely to your plywood base. Tricky, unless you can weld or braze a flange on the end which you can bolt to the base.

You just need something stiff, which you can fix securely to the base, and some bent and/or welded steel will be hard to beat. Got any mates who work in garages or metal workshops? Something ideal could be made out of scrap in five minutes flat with the right tools. 

Here's another idea. The U-shaped bit cut from the top of a stepladder in your pictures. You could remove it, and saw it in half to give you two bits with a right-angle curve in them. Turn one through 90 degrees and bolt them together again so you have a sort-of S shaped assembly. Put your hitch on one end, and bolt the other end to the trailer board (maybe flatten that end first).

Depending on the dimensions of the ladder piece, that might work.


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## delport (11 Jan 2011)

Uncle Phil said:


> A central trailer arm will need to form a bridge over the back wheel of the bike. You might be able to find part of a bike frame that would do this, but you still have the problem of fixing it really securely to your plywood base. Tricky, unless you can weld or braze a flange on the end which you can bolt to the base.
> 
> You just need something stiff, which you can fix securely to the base, and some bent and/or welded steel will be hard to beat. Got any mates who work in garages or metal workshops? Something ideal could be made out of scrap in five minutes flat with the right tools.
> 
> ...



thanks phil,i will look into these suggestions and see what i can do.
I also have more spare aluminium ladders i can cut.And there are parts of the bike frames left.
I don't know anyone who works with metal, there are garages nearby here though.

What do you think of my 2 bike frames under the base?This wasn't my idea but advice that i got.

If i bind both these together in some way, [i may need to do more cutting of metal], and then bolt the bike frames into the plywood i reckon it will be extremely strong.
The plywood is fine when i stand on top of it, so i thought with the frames it should be that much stronger.


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## Cush (11 Jan 2011)

I am not a DIY person but I am interested in the concept of a camper trailer, can you get them ready made in the UK?


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## delport (11 Jan 2011)

Cush said:


> I am not a DIY person but I am interested in the concept of a camper trailer, can you get them ready made in the UK?



I'm not a diy person either, failed miserably at woodwork at school.Got a job after leaving school in a joinery place, making b and q type furniture, i got the sack there for being too slow.

Also worked in an engineering place, but was taught nothing at all, it was a YTS scheme, people around in the 1980s will know what they were.

I am just teaching myself, and trying not to make mistakes.

I couldn't really see anything available in the UK similar to what i am building.


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## Amanda P (12 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> What do you think of my 2 bike frames under the base?This wasn't my idea but advice that i got.



Not a bad approach if there's no possibility of hot metal work. How are you going to stop the two forks rotating in their headsets?

I would have thought that the ply base, with its aluminium side rails _and _timber side rails would be plenty stiff enough without so much of the bike frames present too. However, the bike frames need to transfer their load to the ply base, and the extra leverage from the length of the bike frames will help with that.

I think this trailer's going to be quite heavy. For me, it would have to be palatially comfortable to be worth the extra weight, maintenance and hassle. But I agree that finding somewhere flat and dry enough to sleep on can be a bit of a headache when wild camping, so I see exactly where you're coming from. I just can't help thinking that it's be much lighter and more elegant to use scrap steel tube - and you could probably still do it within your budget if you just had the local knowledge to source the materials and skills. I'd do it for you, but we're not exactly neighbours!

Have a look at CarryFreedom's website; you may find some ideas there. They also do a neat hitch you can buy separately. 

Some years ago, Nick Lobnitz put out a very clever design for a trailer that could be made from discarded bike wheels and frames and pretty much any other linear material - bamboo, dexion, broom handles, random tree branches. This design, like yours, used the forks of the bike to support the wheels. It was available to download from the CarryFreedom website for a while. If it's not there now, I bet they'd send it to you if you asked nicely.


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## delport (12 Jan 2011)

The aluminium side rails were an idea at first, i done those 2 photos about a week ago, and that idea never took off.I can still use the aluminium to shore up the wood skirting that i already have in place if need be.It may be strong enough without using it though.
My first intention was to build the whole thing out of aluminium by just cutting up aluminium ladders, this idea was inspired by the space trailer, which you can see on this website
http://space-trailer.com/activepro.php
but then after cutting up one 7ft ladder, i thought, i'm going to need a lot more metal to actually build this thing, then i began pricing metal, and per long strip it was more than i wanted to pay, so i then resorted to buying the plywood.

Yes, the more i do to the trailer the more i realise how heavy it is going to be, my priority is always that it will be rock solid, i don't want any accidents with it.
Drivers at times can travel very close to even just a bike frame, let alone a trailer.I've had a couple of drivers just in the last fortnight almost clipping my handlebar as they were travelling past me.

"How are you going to stop the two forks rotating in their headsets?"

I'd thought of that,bolting them into place to stop any rotation might work.I also had an idea that a very small amount of rotation might actualy be a good thing, but i never thought of how to limit rotation to just a centimetre or two.

May'be in the future i'll sell this trailer and then start on another one more lightweight, this trailer is just a learning process for me.


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## mark barker (12 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> Yes, the more i do to the trailer the more i realise how heavy it is going to be, my priority is always that it will be rock solid, i don't want any accidents with it.
> Drivers at times can travel very close to even just a bike frame, let alone a trailer.I've had a couple of drivers just in the last fortnight almost clipping my handlebar as they were travelling past me.


From my experience of riding with a trailer motorists give far more space than without...



delport said:


> "How are you going to stop the two forks rotating in their headsets?"
> 
> I'd thought of that,bolting them into place to stop any rotation might work.I also had an idea that a very small amount of rotation might actualy be a good thing, but i never thought of how to limit rotation to just a couple of centimetres.


Oooo.... I don't think you'll want the wheels moving at all. The weight of the trailer shifting because the wheels are free to move will make the handling awful and potentially dangerous.

Have you got any drawings of what you want the trailer to look like when you've finished? At the moment it sounds like you're chopping stuff up and hoping it'll work, but not actually planning ahead (sorry if this sounds out of order, its just something I've seen time and time again as a D&T teacher). Time spent working out how it'll all go together will clear up many of the uncertainties and speed up the build time.


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## delport (12 Jan 2011)

mark barker said:


> From my experience of riding with a trailer motorists give far more space than without...
> 
> 
> Oooo.... I don't think you'll want the wheels moving at all. The weight of the trailer shifting because the wheels are free to move will make the handling awful and potentially dangerous.
> ...



Yes i think you are right, i am just coming up with ideas and adding as i go along.
I don't have any drawings, i'm just doing it step by step.

It looks like the first part [ the base and wheels] will be successfull, if a bit heavy.

The second part will be the trailer arm, and then extending the trailer from it's original 4 ft to 6 1/2 ft, extending it shouldn't be too difficult.
I'll then add bits to make the trailer wider for camping use, that tuck back into the trailer for day time use.

I've also got ideas for lighting, a window,probably a tent style window, not a glass one.
Also making the base comfortable to sleep on, rather than just plywood.

I'll be varnishing the plywood , a thick camping mat will make things softer.


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## Amanda P (12 Jan 2011)

delport said:


> then i began pricing metal, and per long strip it was more than i wanted to pay, so i then resorted to buying the plywood.



Yes, aluminium is expensive. Steel is much less so, and if you know where to ask or look, can often be got for nothing. It can seem heavy, but thin-walled steel tubing can be quite light and strong.



> I also had an idea that a very small amount of rotation might actualy be a good thing, but i never thought of how to limit rotation to just a centimetre or two.



I'm with Mark on this - you don't want any rotation, particularly as the headsets (if I've understood your idea right) will be horizontal, so any movement will cause the wheels to wobble in and out at their tops and bottoms. A certain amount of inward camber might improve stability (look at sports wheelchairs) - but wheels free to alter their camber is probably not going to help at all. Much better to fix them. Once you have each wheel set up vertically (or at whatever angle you choose), I should think you could simpy drill right through the head tube and steerer tube together and put in a "Frankenstein" bolt to hold it all rigid. (I think that's clear? The bolt will have to be a good fit in the hole you drill or you _will_ end up with some movement - and it'll likely get to be more and more movement as the hole frets wider under movement).

Alternatively, what about removing the forks from their head tubes and headsets and fixing the steerer tube directly to your trailer frame, perhaps with U-bolts around the steerer tube and bolted through the aluminium/timber rail? That would eliminate quite a bit of weight.



> May'be in the future i'll sell this trailer and then start on another one more lightweight, this trailer is just a learning process for me.



There's no teacher like experience. Go for it. I would add, though, that thinking and doodling about how it's going to work may save you lots of time. Drawings can be helpful to get it worked out in your mind: you don't have to go in for full-blown CAd or even scaled technical drawings (I never do). But sketches on the back of envelopes (or, better, so you can find them again) an old exercise book or something may cut out a lot of wasted time and materials.


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## delport (12 Jan 2011)

Uncle Phil said:


> Yes, aluminium is expensive. Steel is much less so, and if you know where to ask or look, can often be got for nothing. It can seem heavy, but thin-walled steel tubing can be quite light and strong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks again for all the advice, i 'm trying to understand this bit i've selected above

Are you saying that i should forget about strengthening the trailer underneath using bike frames, and simply go back to just having 2 forks, bolted into the wood frame with a rod of aluminium as a strengthener behind the wood,something like the 2 photos i took last week?Except with the aluminium on the other side of the wood, not the way i photographed it?

Or, keep the headsets and the forks, and forget the bike frames on the underneath?


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## Amanda P (13 Jan 2011)

I'm suggesting (and only suggesting, mind) that the ply base with its timber or aluminium rails is probably quite stiff enough. (You did say that you could stand on it without it flexing much - so that's a 70kg+ point load. That's far more than you'd probably ever carry on the trailer, and if you did carry a heavy load, it would be distributed evenly over the trailer, not standing all in one spot).

Adding the bike frames seems unnecessary. So, yes, maybe try bolting the forks (without other bits of frame) into the wood frame.

You could try assembling the trailer both ways, with and without the bike frames. Then road-test it. Then you'll know whether retaining them is worthwhile.


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## delport (13 Jan 2011)

Uncle Phil said:


> I'm suggesting (and only suggesting, mind) that the ply base with its timber or aluminium rails is probably quite stiff enough. (You did say that you could stand on it without it flexing much - so that's a 70kg+ point load. That's far more than you'd probably ever carry on the trailer, and if you did carry a heavy load, it would be distributed evenly over the trailer, not standing all in one spot).
> 
> Adding the bike frames seems unnecessary. So, yes, maybe try bolting the forks (without other bits of frame) into the wood frame.
> 
> You could try assembling the trailer both ways, with and without the bike frames. Then road-test it. Then you'll know whether retaining them is worthwhile.



Yes i felt that was what you were suggesting.
By the way i am 13 stone in weight, and 6ft 4" in height.That seems to be even more than 70kg, i'm still using lbs these days rather than kilos.

Your point is a valid one that i wouldn't expect to be carrying above 13 stones in weight.

I have spent so much time sanding these frames and headsets, trying to give them a clear silver natural finish that i am reluctant to give up on them, i weighed one of those bike frames last night and it was only 3lbs.The other one was 4lbs i think.

The plywood base by itself weighs 12 lbs.
and the extra chunky wood sidings weigh 2 lbs each.

The reason at first for using the cycle frames was to make sure the wheels were robust and wouldn't struggle with any terrain or object, at a variety of speeds, the fact that they also added strength to the underside of the trailer was a bonus, rather than the initial intention.
I was at first, last week, going to go the same route you are suggesting, until the idea of the frames came along.I was concerned that just a fork connected to a bit of wood was risky, even if strengthened with a section of aluminium and bolted on using u bolts.The frame idea then gave me much more confidence in the overall stability of the trailer.I thought to myself, there is no chance of this design falling apart.

But i admit, it is really over doing it.

"You could try assembling the trailer both ways, with and without the bike frames. Then road-test it. Then you'll know whether retaining them is worthwhile"

And yes i can try this suggestion of yours.

update:
I've uploaded a few more photos of slight changes made.
http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj86/port_soft/my trailer photos/
Both sections are cut now for the cycle frames to go through.And both forks are in line with each other, and the same height.I've shortened the bigger of the 2 forks by simply taking the spring out of the suspension.

I still have more sanding to do of the bike frames, this cheap tesco sander i had been using is fairly useless , and barely removed any paint, so i'm sanding by hand, removing all paintwork from the frames.After that i'll weather protect them.I also used a good name brand paint remover solvent, but it was struggling with the chunkier of the cycle frames, and was barely making a dent in the paintwork.

I think i will leave this thread for a week and see how far on i get, i don't need this trailer for immediate use, so am just taking my time, but the concept remains the same it will be as planned, a bed trailer.
To an outsider i think the cycle frames probably just look shabby and untidy, but i will cut these back more if need be, and may'be get them looking a bit less ugly.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, you may inspire others with your ideas.Simply talking about it has shown the pitfalls, what to do, what not to do, where to start, what materials to buy.. etc.


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## RedBike (14 Jan 2011)

While on tour some time ago I thought about doing exactly the same. "Wouldn't it be great if I had a sort of tent / caravan behind". 

However, after lugging the trailer for 2/300 miles I soon realised there were a few serious flaws with the idea. 

The trailer was a pain in the backside to get through styles / anti motor bike barriers as it was. If the trailer was any wider or longer I would soon start having serious problems getting along most cyclepaths. 

The main advantage of the trailer (over panniers) was I could take loads of junk and a big tent. If the trailer was the tent then the tent wouldn't be that big and I'd either have to limit the amount of 'junk' I was carrying or i'd have to load / unload the trailer every night, in which case I might as well put the tent up. 


Most trailers are limited to 15/30kg carry capacity. This doesn't sound a lot of weight but belive me, lugging this weight up a mountain pass is no joke. By the time you've got a foldable tent/caravan and your luggage you're going to be hauling some load. 

I still think this is one seriously brilliant idea and i'm looking forward to reading about how you get on; but if I ever get back touring again then I think I will be leaving the tent on the ground and just raising the bed off it. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item2c56034828


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## Amheirchion (22 Jan 2011)

I don't think this has been linked already.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=37553&v=2d
Page 5 or so of the 10 and you get to the systems he's tried out for sleeping in his trailer. May be of some use to you?


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## delport (22 Jan 2011)

Amheirchion said:


> I don't think this has been linked already.
> http://www.crazyguyo...e_id=37553&v=2d
> Page 5 or so of the 10 and you get to the systems he's tried out for sleeping in his trailer. May be of some use to you?



Thanks, there are some impressive designs on there.

Progress is slow on the trailer now, my neighbours are fed up with the drilling and sanding and asked me to do the work outside, so i do everything outside now, and it's cold at the moment, i do occasional days, rather than messing around with the trailer every day.

Also i've just began voluntary work teaching computer skills.

Yesterday i was drilling holes through the headsets to put a bolt through, this will stop the fork rotating.After i do that i'll bind both cycle frames together with long bolts and attach these frames to the plywood with more bolts.

Each new step i'm updating with photos on photobucket.

Also thanks to Redbike for the comments, i can completely relate to everything you said.

If i've messed up on the weight issue i will know fairly soon after i start using the trailer.
The final part of the trailer [the 2 1/2 ft section will be lightweight].


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## carlgorse (30 Jan 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> For a true nomadic bike lifestyle... BEHEMOTH!
> The trailer carried:
> 
> 
> ...




I like that idea with the Radios HF all the way


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## peelywally (30 Jan 2011)

few years back me and a mate discussed this very idea (a trailer to haul and sleep in ) ,

we decided that the basic chasis would be a lightweight camp bed with hinged sections attatched to a single bmx wheel ,

for stability when used as a bed it would be un hitched and the legs extended as normal , tent poles at either end would allow a flysheet to be draped over it , at this point your probably thinking sounds like too much bother and thats what we thought so endeth the tale .







im sure to this day it wouldve worked .


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## bottlemsher (30 Jan 2011)

Aussie made cycle camping trailer
tent and bed on top
storage underneath


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## delport (31 Jan 2011)

peelywally said:


> few years back me and a mate discussed this very idea (a trailer to haul and sleep in ) ,
> 
> we decided that the basic chasis would be a lightweight camp bed with hinged sections attatched to a single bmx wheel ,
> 
> ...



My idea has now completely changed course and is something like what you are describing there, i listened to everyone, and have given up on the idea of the heavy weight trailer and gone for something with very little weight.

Back to the idea of the ladder material, and making the trailer nearly all from metal, i found a lightweight bed frame in a skip.I also have a camp bed which i used on my last camping expedition, so my trailer is basically a camp bed with support and metal sidings for the wheels,it will measure just 3 feet across in total, and i've ideas on how to shrink it to a 2 foot wide trailer for day time use, and getting past those cycle lane bollards.

The camp bed has legs which i can either use or not use.

I will use the metal sidings to place the wheel in, and also i want a shelving area to place my panniers at night to the side of the bed.Also i can cook in that area too.So a flat metal surface would be great for placing the gas stove on.[Something i've always found a problem when using a tent on the ground].I've dropped burning liquid a couple of times due to uneven ground in the tent.

The bed is 2 foot wide, and the sideings measure 6" each wide, giving me the total of 3 feet.

I've already lay down on all 4 lengths of metal, i spread them across my dvd cases, and all of them supported my weight without breaking, i tried 2 at a time with a gap between each bit of metal, they flexed slightly, but nothing more.

Here is a rough idea picture of what it may look like.
http://s270.photobuc...nt=DSCN4338.jpg
http://s270.photobuc...t=DSCN4339.jpg

The thin bits of metal across the bed were just a small idea, but nothing definete, [it's that section i want to make the shelving in],they were to go between the sidings, for added strength, not travel onto the bed at all.

I found that i originally was getting too carried away with what the trailer could carry, and really overdoing it way beyond it's purpose of simply being a bed.I don't expect to be carrying items around the weight of a cooker etc.. so building a trailer to carry 30 stone or whatever was overdoing it.
What originally stopped me in my tracks was drilling 4 holes through the top of the forks to stop the fork from moving, i just couldn't do this part perfectly, so had a rethink about the entire trailer, and all the time that i had been spending on it.And came to the conclusion that i had to change what i was doing.
I expect to be going down French cyclepaths, with bollards [blocking moped riders and cars] frequently popping up, and i'll have some hills in Spain to go over on the way to Gibraltar with the trailer.


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## irw (2 Feb 2011)

delport said:


> What originally stopped me in my tracks was drilling 4 holes through the top of the forks to stop the fork from moving, i just couldn't do this part perfectly, so had a rethink about the entire trailer, and all the time that i had been spending on it.And came to the conclusion that i had to change what i was doing.



When I was building my quadricycle, the most useful tool I bought was one of these bench-mounted pillar drills, it made life so much easier and precise in the drilling department than if I'd tried to do it all with a electric hand-drill!

Ian


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## delport (21 Feb 2011)

I have added a few more photos of the new design, 
http://s270.photobuc...ailer%20photos/
i am quite surprised that even this "ultra lightweight" idea is still weighing 10 lbs per side with the wheels attached.

Apart from the iron brackets, which are fairly small, the other metal sections weigh nothing really.

The camp bed has still to be added.And i will fit more metal support brackets between each 5 ft long metal.

I am mainly copying the idea of the person who built the yellow bike trailer which can be seen in my other photos in that folder.

And i now have 2 quick release mountain bike wheels, found one lying around in the grass nearby that someone had discarded.


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## Amanda P (21 Feb 2011)

Those iron brackets are going to be pretty heavy, and probably unnecessarily chunky. Something thinner, like steel Dexion, would probably be fine, and a fair bit lighter. I think those iron bits could be shorter, too, since the side rails are presumably stiff enough on their own - the angle iron bits are just there to act as dropouts, right? 

Your wheels and tyres may be the other area where weight could be saved: you don't really need those big chunky tyres. Narrower ones would be lighter, and since you don't need grip or traction in a trailer tyre, slick tyres (or at least slick-er) would roll more easily and quietly.

Cheap mountain bike tyres are to be avoided like the plague: they can feel like you're riding through treacle.


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## delport (21 Feb 2011)

Uncle Phil said:


> Those iron brackets are going to be pretty heavy, and probably unnecessarily chunky. Something thinner, like steel Dexion, would probably be fine, and a fair bit lighter. I think those iron bits could be shorter, too, since the side rails are presumably stiff enough on their own - the angle iron bits are just there to act as dropouts, right?
> 
> Your wheels and tyres may be the other area where weight could be saved: you don't really need those big chunky tyres. Narrower ones would be lighter, and since you don't need grip or traction in a trailer tyre, slick tyres (or at least slick-er) would roll more easily and quietly.
> 
> Cheap mountain bike tyres are to be avoided like the plague: they can feel like you're riding through treacle.


The iron brackets weigh, 3/4 of a lb each.
I made them long as a felt it would distribute the pressure.It also meant i could use 4 bolts to secure them.
And yes the iron is just for the dropouts,it provides a solid connection for the wheel.
The yellow trailer in my photos weighs 22 lbs, but he has used slightly stronger metal than i used.
You can see i am just copying what he did, he uses the exact same style brackets as i have, see here
http://s270.photobuc...04h17m21s75.png
and the length is similar.

Thanks for the advice but i will continue with what i have, it would be nice to finish this one day, if i backtrack again with my design it will just slow me down.
I can't afford new wheels or tyres for the trailer, that would set me back another £60 to £80

update've had second thoughts about what i said earlier about changing the wheels, i have 2 bikes both with 700x35c wheels, so i could infact experiment with other wheels at no cost.
Last night i weighed 2 fully inflated mountain bike wheels, each one weighed 5 lbs.
I then weighed a 700x35c wheel, with no tube and no tyre on it, it weighed 2 1/2 lbs, with a tyre and tube inflated that 2 1/2 lbs will move upwards.

But what you said about cheap mountain bike wheels compared to smooth town bike tyres does make sense.
I've got to buy 2 new tyres for my other bike soon, it is at the point i can experiment further.
The saving in weight may only be 3lbs overall, but the type of tyre can make a difference i suppose.


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## glb37 (5 Mar 2011)

I found this video interesting and inspiring: http://www.vimeo.com...videos/20428707
if only I could afford a solar panel that size, and a trailer. Although, your home adapted trailer has saved you some money, and looks great.
But looking at the profile of the solar panel in the video, it looks like they have one of the thicker types. On the market there are the very thin, broad ones too, which are flexible (and waterproof - can be strapped on a sailing boat too). It's just the cost factor, and, the power to size electricity obtained - if used to charge a bicycle's electric motor frame big battery. But for music and wifi internet and emergency mobile use, and lights I have bought a few months ago a small solar panel (freeloader globetrotter) that gives a trickle 5v, even in cloud. After about 6 hours a full mobile phone charge can be had + 4 aaa batteries almost charged. So very useful indeed. I have it lightly stapped onto my map reader (which isn't a map reader - just holds solar panel and mobile, and maybe a bit of paper (or small map temporarily).


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## glb37 (5 Mar 2011)

This is good too 
View: http://www.vimeo.com/16203066

It's from the couple's Vimeo web location.


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## delport (14 Mar 2011)

I am now on to mark 3 design of the trailer, the trailer is now 6ft 6" in total size.

I used the metal hinge idea i came up with ages ago, and slimmed the already varnished plywood section that i was using back in January, right down to the very minimum, i cut bits off the side and length of the plywood, i got an old solid bed headboard and also cut it down to 3ft 3" which gives me 6ft 6" when not folded.

It is heavy this design, but does what i was looking for [folds out to a proper bed size] and is now a very small looking trailer at only 3ft long.And less than 2 ft wide before attaching the wheels.

My constant fear is that i make a trailer so wide that i endanger my life, it would only need one clip from a car to put me in serious danger, so i've always been focussed on the width for getting past obstacles and wary of motorists behind.
The trailer now won't even be 3 ft wide with wheels attached, so i'm heading in the right direction.

I really want to finish this trailer one day, not a lot needs to be done after all the experimenting i've been doing, i know now that i can use iron for my wheels supports, and i'll cut them smaller this time round.


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## delport (14 Apr 2011)

Trailer is almost finished now, for up to date photos see trailer photo 1 onwards.
http://s270.photobuc...ailer%20photos/






It won't be all that long before i go to Spain now, a month or so.

The tent idea has gone [originally i wanted to build this as a complete shelter, with the tent stretching out just beyond the plywood] i've just bought a tent, and i'll move the trailer bed into the tent and sleep on it.

Bmx wheels were bought for £20 2nd hand.

The trailer connector was bought for £15- this is a standard connector supplied with trailers.Attached to the trailer connector is a childs scooter i got for free, this will be my trailer arm, it is heavy and solid and has the [2 o'clock] angle i see on other proper trailers.

The trailer only measures 2 ft across.And at the moment i'm thinking of not bothering with side railings as i have 10mm metal rods i can may'be thread through both bmx wheels, i'm going to experiment with that idea soon.
I'm comfortable with adjusting bike axles, ball bearings and so on.

Also the wheel supports made of iron were cut to a very small size, as mentioned in my previous post.


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## delport (19 Apr 2011)

Trailer is now up and running, still a couple of things to do to it.Took it out for a 10 mile trial run last night.It handles corners perfectly, and as it is only 2 ft wide is perfect for cycle paths and narrow gaps.

I rode fast at times, and over rough ground, just to see how it handled, and it was fine, the first part of the trailer without wheels weighs 9lbs, and near 19 lb with wheels.
The second section of the trailer is less than 10lbs.

When i go shopping i will only use the 1st part of the trailer.

The metal rod idea didn't work purely because of the thread, the rod fitted fine through both bmx wheels, cups went on fine, cones had a different thread on them so the idea ended there.


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## Night Train (19 Apr 2011)

I saw this and thought of your thread.




http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/...smallest-carbon-neutral-caravan-$21379819.htm


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## delport (19 Apr 2011)

Night Train said:


> I saw this and thought of your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would be ideal, i like the little caravan.


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## delport (28 Apr 2011)

More photos of the trailer as it looks now.
I've used the trailer for about 6 days now, and barely anything needs done to it.






If you look at the other photos you'll notice part 2 of the trailer, i'm not sure what to do with that part now as the container idea works well and gives me loads of carrying space.
more photos:
http://s270.photobuc...ailer%20photos/

The length of the trailer is just over 3 foot, and it's a tiny bit over 2 foot wide.
I'm now noticing with practise test runs why it needs to be this narrow, as even at that small width i can clip things.And not completely clear things like gates and narrow passages.


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## Riverman (5 Feb 2013)

Interesting thread.

I know this is insane but has anyone considered trying to adapt a garden storage tent to something like this? The dimensions would suit a trailer much better than a regular tent and they're designed to be weighted down. May need to add some ventilation. 

I suppose the wind may be a factor too... lol

http://www.caveinnovations.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=1


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## Riverman (5 Feb 2013)

Ok maybe that is quite crazy. Perhaps you could make a trailer out of this?




http://www.amazon.co.uk/Swinging-Garden-Hammock-Hanging-Mosquito/dp/B0095RYMQC


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## jayjay (13 Mar 2013)

Maybe that swing would fit into one of these:
http://www.gizmag.com/tricycle-house-pedal-powered-rv/26553/
Hehe - not too portable for touring perhaps.
I'd be thinking along the lines of a mini Combi Camp, with an up-and-over pitching action. It's somewhat like the old folding pram hoods.


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