# M3 Junction 9 - Right of Way Dispute



## Bollo (22 Jan 2011)

I received this email third or fourth hand from the local CTC R2R rep, Sue Coles. I'll leave this OP clean, and chip in my views in a separate post. PM me if you use the route and I'll pass on the forms/maps and contacts.

All,


Subway system through Junction 9 M3/A34 

One of the best routes in and out of Winchester for cyclists is Easton Lane and the subway system at Junction 9 of the M3/A34. Cyclists have been using this route continuously since the 1980s when the M3 Popham to Hockley section was built.

Use of this junction by cyclists is now under threat and I need your help to prevent that threat becoming a reality.

The background to this is that Highways Agency (it manages the motorway network including junctions) was approached about signing the proposed National Cycle Network from Easton to Winchester through the subway system. Highways Agency has rejected this request and also indicated that it considers use by cyclists of the subway system to be illegal. In addition, it is reported that Highways Agency is again considering an improvement to the junction that could threaten our use of the subway system.

We need to demonstrate that cyclists have been using the subway system for many years so that we can claim a right of way for cyclists through it. This is a legal process done through Hampshire County Council (as the Highway Authority). In other words, we must show that cyclists have had uninterrupted and unobstructed use of the subway system and that the landowner (Highways Agency) has never attempted to stop that use.

I am attaching a form and map. If you have used the subways, please can you complete the form, mark the route on the map and return the completed form and map to *me *(not to the Rights of Way Department). I will then collate the evidence and submit on block to Hampshire County Council. It does not matter how long you have been using the subways. It is weight of evidence that will count rather than the length of your use. 

If we can establish a right of way in law, it would be much more difficult for Highways Agency to obstruct this route and if the junction were to be reconfigured, the existence of a legal right of way would put us in a much stronger position in any campaign to obtain an alternative and acceptable route for cyclists.

This is really important. Please help to maintain this route for current and future cyclists.

Thanks and regards

Sue


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## Bollo (22 Jan 2011)

I'm not going to get misty-eyed over this subway. It's easily the least salubrious place in all of Winchester and I fully expect to find a dead body there one day. Winnall Lane, the road leading up to the underpass and hypothetically part of the NCN23, is a horrorshow of twisty, narrow, congested and double-figure inclined tarmac. BUT, brave the fumes and the discarded needles and this underpass mainlines you straight into cycling bliss - the NCN23 from M3 J9 to Alresford and then on to Basingstoke is a delight and I'm proud to call it my (occasional) commute.

The underpass is used by cyclists and drug addicts. In my 6 years of reasonably regular use I've never seen a single pedestrian but plenty of club rides, lone roadies, tourers and a few cycle commuters pass through. Very few people walk to Winnall from the city centre and it's a fair old schlep from there to Easton - the next village along. Thanks to the Berlin Wall-like nature of the M3, the alternatives add miles to the journey along racetrack B-roads.

It seems to me that the Highways Agency are behaving like sh1ts.


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## downfader (22 Jan 2011)

Have never used it myself, though have walked through parts of Winchester many times in the past. If this subway takes away the risks of using a very fast road or a very long detour then I think its right to keep it and have it legally rideable.

Limiting freedom of movement by bicycle will just lead to more problems with congestion as people resort to their car. 

The Highways Agency could potentially just do what they have done on Southampton Common. Paint "SLOW" on the approach on the ground, and even put up signs warning of cycles (red triangle, black cycle in a white background).


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## Bollo (22 Jan 2011)

TBH DF, this underpass is as about as easy to find as the cupboard to Narnia. Without the cycle traffic, it probably would've gummed up with burnt foil and cadavers long ago.

Sticking up a few tandem traps and a big sign will make bugger all difference, because it's pretty much unenforceable. On the Winchester side, entering the underpass is like a rapid and untraceable descent into hell. Easton-side, the connecting 'road' isn't wide enough for 4-wheeled access for at least 1/4 mile. I suspect Hants plod has many bigger and more accessible fish to fry. 

It's more about the principle of the thing. However, a redevelopment of the junction without _any_ access across the M3 would be a real bestard.


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## sheddy (23 Jan 2011)

Send a sarcastic letter asking their advice on the best way to cross a Motorway ?


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## dellzeqq (23 Jan 2011)

it's a CTC route - without doing the OS map thing I'm sure I've been led through it. There's a kind of footpathy ring within a big roundabout.

Is there an alternative?


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## Bollo (23 Jan 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it's a CTC route - without doing the OS map thing I'm sure I've been led through it. There's a kind of footpathy ring within a big roundabout.
> 
> Is there an alternative?


That's the chap. Unpleasant, isn't it? But useful. Also, it's obviously not any kind of dedicated cycle facility - it's just that given its start and end points, it's next to useless for anything other than cycling. Conflict with pedestrians just doesn't enter the equation, unless the ped in question thinks you've just sold him some mint tic tacs instead of Chalkies. Either the HA don't want to maintain and/or upgrade the crossing to a point where it could pass muster as a farcility, or they'd quietly like to do away with the crossing altogether during any sort of junction reimagining.


Going into a little detail, I'd point to the B3404 as the credible alternative. It's certainly more scenic, but the climb around the side of St Giles Hill isn't trivial and the long straight section past St Swithun's School is fast and narrow, despite the recently extended 40mph limit. If Easton and the NCN23 following the south side of the Alre is your destination, this alternative adds an unnecessary mile or two and in my opinion ratchets up the risk a few notches.


Winchester-side entrance here on the right. See what I mean about Narnia.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2011)

I stumbled across that in 2009 whilst lost, trying to find ncn23 out of Winchester. I shall "do my bit"


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## Bollo (24 Jan 2011)

GregCollins said:


> I stumbled across that in 2009 whilst lost, trying to find ncn23 out of Winchester. I shall "do my bit"



Thanks Greg. Much appreciated.

I had a quick email exchange with Sue Coles today to check she was ok with me giving out addresses etc and she pointed me towards this link....

http://www.southhampshirectc.org.uk...unction-9-m3a34-linking-winchester-and-easton


This has all the forms attached and an address for the receipt the responses.


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## cygnet (25 Jan 2011)

Hi,
I went through this on an audax last year - the Hailsham 300. Not sure how long this route has been in place, but you (/Sue) could try getting in touch with the organiser though Audax UK. Alternatively maybe try posting on some audax forums someone might know someone etc. Although the route is not 'fixed' records are kept so it's another avenue to explore.


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## Bollo (25 Jan 2011)

Thanks cygnet. I'm not on the Audax site but I'll pass your suggestion on to Sue, who may know someone.

Just to emphasise, if you've *ever *used this underpass, even once, then you're entitled to fill in the forms. This isn't just for regulars or locals. The forms take about 5 minutes to fill in.

The area has not been treated well by our transport planners over the last 20-30 years (for those with a sketchy knowledge of the area, M3 J9-J10 is the infamous Twyford Down cutting). To lose another access point at the whim of the HA would be a great shame.


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## PBancroft (26 Jan 2011)

Had a discussion today at work about posting this here - only to see Bollo had already posted it. Bah.

ANYWAY. This gets my full support. Have completed the forms and map, and will be posting it off. Of course its not the nicest stretch of tarmac in the world but considering its location its not going to be. I used to use it regularly when I lived in Kings Worthy and was visiting friends in Winnall. As Bollo has indicated, there really isn't any conflict with pedestrians - I can't recall ever seeing a single pedestrian there.

My understanding is that the Highways Authority is quite supportive of this, but we DO need to prove to the Highways Agency that it is used and necessary. Even if you've only ever used it once, if you found it useful please fill in the form.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Jan 2011)

seriously fill in the form, if only for the experience. It's amazing. It is a throw back to a bygone age. Best completed in fountain pen, in one's study, wearing slippers and a smoking jacket whilst drawing on a pipe of Balkan Sobranie by the light of a whale oil lamp.

"I enter exhibit A for the Prosecution m'lud Question 8 on the form"

_8. Have you seen other people using the path? Yes/No

If yes were they Locals Strangers Landowners Don't Know._

So in Hampshire there are three classes of people

Locals "Oi noze im"
Strangers "Oi dontz noze im"
and
Landowners "Oid noze the marster anyware"

Are there hybrids? Local landowners? Landowners who are strangers? Landowners who lacking a shotgun and the ability to shout "geroffmoilaaaand" cannot be identified as such.


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## Riverman (27 Jan 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> it's a CTC route - without doing the OS map thing I'm sure I've been led through it. There's a kind of footpathy ring within a big roundabout.
> 
> Is there an alternative?



drive.


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## dand_uk (27 Feb 2011)

I've used this stretch before, and I thought there were signs indicating the route on approach from the Easton side. I could be mistaken tho...

I know this junction is on the list to be redesigned since it causes a lot of congestion on Easton Lane, especially with the Tesco store sucking in motorists from the motorway


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## JonnyBlade (27 Feb 2011)

I have travelled from Gosport to Winchester by car on many occasions since 1998 leaving the M3 at Junction 9. That's the first I knew of the underpass!


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## Christopher (27 Feb 2011)

Good luck with this bollo! Can't help you directly, just posted to say that I found your witty black humor about the underpass hilarious. Especially the tic-tac ref in post #7...


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## Gibbo (12 Apr 2011)

I have used this route a lot over the last 20 years and it is popular with people who walk to/from Easton as well as with cyclists. When the Highways Agency designed the original A34/M3 junction they tried to save money by not having a proper junction. Having a roundabout between the A34, a major north south trunk road, and the M3 is just plain stupid. Now they want to try and "fix" the junction and remove the pedestrian/cyclist access over the M3, which is also pretty cretinous. Sadly they have done this sort of thing before. There used to be a canal going south from Winchester (the Itchen Navigation) until the Highways Agency decided to save money by putting it into a culvert when they built the M3 around Winchester. 

Getting rid of this cycle/pedestrian route would be yet another short-sighted decision by the Highways Agency that must be opposed.

If you want to check out the route watch this Youtube clip: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIPsGu9_eYU
No bodies were found during the making of this video...


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