# Who is not clipped in and why?



## Ladytrucker (9 Jun 2013)

I bought SPDs earlier this year and found them difficult, mainly because I had 2 hills I couldn't get up and had to walk them both. After a fall I took the SPDs back off the bike and the shoes went back into the box.

Now months later I'm sailing up those hills and for a while now I've been able to do my route without any problems. Only stopping for some water and blow my nose once or twice. I've been thinking of going back to the SPDs but not convinced. I'm not having a problem with my trainers and the steel cage pedals. 

I'm just thinking about the autumn weather as my trainers will not keep out the rain due to the air hole mesh and I'll need to invest in some good waterproof shoes at some point before the winter. The cheap shoes I have with cleats on are waterproof but like I say cheap and will need to be replaced at sometime. Before anyone suggests it, the shoes are rubbish with no grip on my steel pedals.

Is it an image thing? Does having "the shoes" make you a like a proper cyclist? I'm always reading posts about how wonderful they are. I'm sure there are a few on here who, for one reason or another, are not clipped in anymore. Why?

Lady Trucker


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## SWSteve (9 Jun 2013)

I use SPD -SLs and I wouldn't go back to flats anytime sharpish. I have fallen off a couple of times, most recently 3ft from my front door in a white shirt ready for work...but I haven't been discouraged. I should probably loosen the tension, but just havent.

When I fell off, I had one in and one out, but of course I fell to the side that was clipped in - sod's law


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## ShooglyDougie (9 Jun 2013)

If your trainers and flats are working for you a pair of overshoes might be a better option than buying new SPD shoes.


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## Nigelnaturist (9 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker, you ride a bike your a proper cyclist.
I have found they help, more so on getting going, I cant say they have improved my performance, though my speeds have improved, but that may just be an overall improvement, but i would have to say a combination of all the factors that have changed in the last couple of months from gears to handle bars, pedals to saddle.


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Jun 2013)

No clips or even road bike for me:


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## AnythingButVanilla (9 Jun 2013)

I ride in trainers but keep meaning to buy a pair of stiff MTB shoes as my DCs made my feet molten hot and I'm too scared/can't be bothered with trying clicky shoes.


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## MontyVeda (9 Jun 2013)

I used to use toe clips on all my bikes from the racer i had as teenager to my MTBs of my 20's... they just seemed so normal and an integral part of the bike and i never gave slipping in or out of them a 2nd thought.

the reason i took the toe clips off was when i bought a bright orange pair of platforms which matched the bright orange stickers on my frame... not very scientific i know... but ohhh they did look nice. Once I'd got used to not having clips, I wondered why i figured they were so essential in the first place. It's just what you're used to i guess.


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## MacB (9 Jun 2013)

http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=45


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## vickster (9 Jun 2013)

I now clip in on both road bikes, taken me a while to get brave enough to do so on the commuter roadie. Trainers on the hybrid if I cba


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2013)

MacB said:


> http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=45


I wondered when you'd pop up.


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## robjh (9 Jun 2013)

When I'm touring I still use trainers + toe clips, as I spend a lot of time exploring off the bike too and don't want to carry the weight of extra shoes. That said I do find SPDs nicer for riding as I don't force my feet to the front of the shoe as I do with toe clips, but the difference isn't as great as all that.


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## deadpool7 (9 Jun 2013)

I find the clipless help with hills. I've been riding in SPD-SL for nearly a year and recently installed eggbeaters on my MTB. I found that those drastically helped with the hills I encountered on my singletrack ride yesterday. Just make sure to drop to an easy gear when climbing a steep hill and that should help as well. Good luck!


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## derrick (9 Jun 2013)

My other half had the same problem with clipless, she ended up going back to trainers, and i am thankful for that, i worried all the time i was out with her, but she is happy with trainers, although she has gone through about 4 pairs till she found a pair that felt right. she gets up all the hills so no probs, and i would say she is a proper cyclist.


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## I like Skol (9 Jun 2013)

As a teenager finding my way in to mountain biking it didn't take long before I experienced a few peanut/crossbar interface issues after feet slipped off the pedals on the bumpy downhill bits. I quickly installed clips and straps then eventually upgraded to SPD pedals and dedicated shoes once funds allowed. I would never go back, the feeling of oneness with the bike is perfect and when pedalling my foot is always in exactly the right place.
I do have a set of combined flats/SPD pedals on my hybrid and hate using them as flats, they're just so vague for foot positioning.


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## flissh (9 Jun 2013)

derrick said:


> My other half had the same problem with clipless, she ended up going back to trainers, and i am thankful for that, i worried all the time i was out with her, but she is happy with trainers, although she has gone through about 4 pairs till she found a pair that felt right. she gets up all the hills so no probs, and i would say she is a proper cyclist.


Same with my other half. He tried, didn't really like them, fell off in traffic, luckily, fell toward the curb, but I spent the rest of the journey really worrying about him. Thankfully he has changed back to platform pedals and wears his trainers.


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## ianrauk (9 Jun 2013)

If you don't want to wear them then don't. They are not for everyone. Don't worry what others think.
I see loads of cyclists on my commute who don't use cleats. They can cycle just as fast and as well as those who do use cleats.


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## dasy2k1 (9 Jun 2013)

I have half and half SPD pedals,
as often as not (especially if im just riding to the local shop i will just ride in normal trainers,)
its only if I anticipate cycling some distance that I will use my cleated shoes


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## Ladytrucker (9 Jun 2013)

Thanks all. I'm thinking I'll give them another go. 1 week and see how I feel after that. If I'm not happy they are going on ebye and then I won't think about them again just sitting in the garage collecting dust.


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## dave r (9 Jun 2013)

My bikes are split, my fixed, which is my commuter and the bike I use the most is fitted with clips and straps, the clips have been straightened and rebent to take my steel toe capped boots, I like the fact that the clips and straps give me good foot retention and let me use any footwear I like. My verenti, which is my best bike is fitted with clipless, and I'm limited to cycle shoes when I use it, it gets used for Sunday rides and events. Of the two systems I prefer the clips and straps and I find very little difference between the two systems, I haven't used flats without foot retention on a regular basis for over twenty years and suspect it would take several rides to get comfortable with them.


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## biggs682 (9 Jun 2013)

no old cages with straps for me


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## ThinAir (9 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker said:


> Thanks all. I'm thinking I'll give them another go. 1 week and see how I feel after that. If I'm not happy they are going on ebye and then I won't think about them again just sitting in the garage collecting dust.



I was the same when I bought clip ins for my hybrid, and really wasn't comfortable with them, but I stuck with them and found them to be really beneficial. I knew the pros and cons, but was always worried about having that "off" at the lights. I had it. Felt silly for about five minutes but now im cool with them and wouldn't use anything else for the new machine when it arrives.


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## MarkF (10 Jun 2013)

Cages on my hybrid, toe clips on my road bike, nothing on my old MTB.

I am swapping bikes all the time, I'll often, on a weekend, use all 3 in the same day and I like to be comfortable on and off the bikes. I use some old Shimano lace up SPD's on my road bike, I like the firm base and they are comfortable enough to use as trainers/shoes all day too, they were my only footwear in 1000 miles crossing Spain. I might use them on the hybrid, or use normal trainers or sports sandals (with toe cap & side support) if it's hot/sunny.

Can't see clips suiting me, plus................they are new fangled and I might fall off.


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## inkd (10 Jun 2013)

skate trainers and flats for me as I have other stuff to buy first and shoes/pedals is a tad pricey for me at the moment. I will be going clipless with my next cyclescheme though. The big question for me is SPD or SL???


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## ThinAir (10 Jun 2013)

inkd said:


> skate trainers and flats for me as I have other stuff to buy first and shoes/pedals is a tad pricey for me at the moment. I will be going clipless with my next cyclescheme though. The big question for me is SPD or SL???



I prefer SPDs for a couple of reasons; you can generally walk around quite well in the shoes, and they are easy to get into and out of. Especially at when you first getting to used to getting into them, as you can clip into either side of the pedal. Much less embarrassing than faffing about at the lights!


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## MacB (10 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> I wondered when you'd pop up.


 
 just providing some balance to the prevailing 'opinion presented as fact with no supporting data' - at least my link doesn't pretend to be more than opinion


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## Ciar (10 Jun 2013)

I have flats on both my bikes, dmr vaults on my MTB and Wellgo's on my hybrid, i actually used to ride in trainers, but they were taking a beating from the trails and constant washing,so i ended up buying some specialized tahoe's they seem to work really well, with both sets of pedals they are very comfy and the pedals seem to stick to the sole..even though they can be used for spd's, either way ride what you feel most comfortable in, I don't like being attached to the bike so this way suits me most


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## summerdays (10 Jun 2013)

I like to wear a complete variety of shoes, from boots, trainers, sandals, right through to birkenstocks, so flat's for me .


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## roadrash (10 Jun 2013)

Who is not clipped in and why?

me because im not on my bike , im sat at my computer


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## Rob3rt (10 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker said:


> Is it an image thing? *Not for me, I exercise my vanity through shaven legs and matching kit!*
> Does having "the shoes" make you a like a proper cyclist? *No*
> I'm always reading posts about how wonderful they are. *That is because they are wonderful, if you get on with them, or if you use them in a capacity where there is a real performance benefit and when I say a performance benefit, I don't necessarily mean going faster.*


 
My opinion!

I can and do occasionally jump on a bike for a short distance in everyday shoes, but quite frankly, I find it marginally dangerous. I often ride from the station to race HQ in flats, it is only a mile or so, it not only feels unsafe, which I don't like, this actually manifests in my lifting my foot off the rising pedal, causing a loss of grip over the top of the pedal stroke.


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## MacB (10 Jun 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> My opinion!
> 
> I can and do occasionally jump on a bike for a short distance in everyday shoes, but quite frankly, I find it marginally dangerous. I often ride from the station to race HQ in flats, it is only a mile or so, it not only feels unsafe, which I don't like, this actually manifests in my lifting my foot off the rising pedal, causing a loss of grip over the top of the pedal stroke.


 
any of the kids in our road, ages from about 3 up to teens, could explain to you how to pedal properly


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## Rob3rt (10 Jun 2013)

MacB said:


> any of the kids in our road, ages from about 3 up to teens, could explain to you how to pedal properly


 

*clever retort*


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## Supersuperleeds (10 Jun 2013)

I am still on flat pedals and I have no intention of going to clipping in, saying that I have had other stances that have subsequently been broken, padded shorts and going commando being one.


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## Steve at Tern (10 Jun 2013)

Each to his or her own as to whether to use cleats or not I guess, but personally I would never go back to toeclips with straps. Not after getting a velcro tab on trainers caught in the strap - clipless can easily be released with an easily-learned twist, but in my case trying to remove my foot in the second or two before I fell over proved impossible, and I ended up in the road. If there had been traffic, you wouldn't be reading this post...
I now use MTB SPDs on my road bike - the recessed cleats mean that you can walk into the cake shop without looking like a complete d*ck as well...


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## theloafer (10 Jun 2013)

hi ladytrucker
just use what you feel best with all 3 of my bikes have toeclips +straps tourer /boardman cx/even my carbon road bike the lads in the club keep telling me to switch them but as I have used them for over 35 years now and still had no spills .... tried clipless a few years ago and just was not comfy with them so I thought if it,s not broke why fix it ...I ride with what suits me not what others tell me


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## subaqua (10 Jun 2013)

ianrauk said:


> If you don't want to wear them then don't. They are not for everyone. Don't worry what others think.
> I see loads of cyclists on my commute who don't use cleats. They can cycle just as fast and as well as those who do use cleats.


 yup , the only thing you need to be a proper cyclist is a bike !!


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## Ladytrucker (10 Jun 2013)

Changed my pedals tonight and went out and I just couldn't get into them. I don't like the feeling of being joined to the bike. Came home and took them off never to try again. It is not for me.

I like to stick my legs out when going down hill, weeeeee


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## SpokeyDokey (10 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker said:


> Changed my pedals tonight and went out and I just couldn't get into them. I don't like the feeling of being joined to the bike. Came home and took them off never to try again. It is not for me.
> 
> I like to stick my legs out when going down hill, weeeeee


 

Why don't you try different cleats ie multi-release?


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## shouldbeinbed (10 Jun 2013)

My knees are rather shot and I've gone back to flats. TBH not nearly the radical change I expected (feared?) it would be. Get a good set of flat pedals - I've gone old school metal touring type ones from bike jumbles, 2 pairs cost me a grand total of £5 and I'm getting on fine with them, albeit better with regular shoes where the soles have a bit of give to grab the pedals than my bike specific footwear - and a good smooth technique and theres not nearly the difference you might imagine.

It only takes a few weeks to stop kicking your heel out to unclip from the flats too


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## Finnjävel (11 Jun 2013)

I'm not clipped in.

I tend to unclip when posting on CC.


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## Cyclist33 (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2495168, member: 30090"]Me thinks you're not pedalling right. I might be wrong of course.

Shoes allow a better power transfer and utilises the more powerful hamstring and glute muscles on the up stroke which generates way more power then a pair of non cycling shoes.[/quote]

Myth.


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## Ladytrucker (11 Jun 2013)

shouldbeinbed said:


> My knees are rather shot and I've gone back to flats. TBH not nearly the radical change I expected (feared?) it would be. Get a good set of flat pedals - I've gone old school metal touring type ones from bike jumbles, 2 pairs cost me a grand total of £5 and I'm getting on fine with them, albeit better with regular shoes where the soles have a bit of give to grab the pedals than my bike specific footwear - and a good smooth technique and theres not nearly the difference you might imagine.
> 
> It only takes a few weeks to stop kicking your heel out to unclip from the flats too


 


I have a pair or trail running shoes with grip and my steel cage pedals have good grip. I'm able to get a good smooth technique going for short periods. I have lots of hills to climb and I'm up and down the gears a fair bit. Being clipped in was just one more thing to worry about especially when my chain came off - pedling like mad and not going anywhere !!! Luckily I managed to get off in time. 

Anyway the bike is due back to the LBS for it's check up as it's only 7 weeks old and I'm going to treat myself to some new waterproof walking trail shoes for out on the bike in the winter. The shoes can be used for the exercise bike and spin classes in the winter. The pedals are back on the garage shelf until I decide what to do with them. OH has SPDs so he might use them.


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## youngoldbloke (11 Jun 2013)

Steve@Tern said:


> Each to his or her own as to whether to use cleats or not I guess, but personally I would never go back to toeclips with straps. Not after getting a velcro tab on trainers caught in the strap - clipless can easily be released with an easily-learned twist, but in my case trying to remove my foot in the second or two before I fell over proved impossible, and I ended up in the road. If there had been traffic, you wouldn't be reading this post...
> I now use MTB SPDs on my road bike - the recessed cleats mean that you can walk into the cake shop without looking like a complete d*ck as well...


I used clips and straps until only 6 or 7 years ago, BUT I also used proper cycling shoes with them - stiff SMOOTH soles. Trainers are a very bad idea, and tend to be difficult to pull out from the clips. I also used to use cleats with clips and straps - a metal plate with a slot that engaged with the back edge of the pedal, nailed to the sole of the shoe. When your straps were tightened it really was difficult to 'clip out'! I really like being at one with the bike, and now use Look Keos.


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## skudupnorth (11 Jun 2013)

Not for me,i prefer the options that toe clips give me to wear what ever i need for that day,it could be hiking trainers or steel toe capped boots 
If i'm out somewhere i prefer to be able to walk instead of hobbling like a lame duck


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## Cyclist33 (11 Jun 2013)

I bought a pair of SPDs and some road shoes from Wiggle, which aren't the MTB style shoes so have a flat plastic sole. They're not especially comfy and although I've come off twice, and potentially hazardously so as I'm left-footed and tend to fall to the right (into traffic!), the most unappealing aspect is not being able to get back in. Even with practice and after getting better at it, there have been so many botched re-clippings that any pedalling performance gained is outweighed by the slowness and stress of that!

I haven't bothered to take them off my flatbar bike, mainly because I haven't got another set of pedals, but I just use a good pair of trail shoes by Merrell with a fairly tough sole and happily do 50-75 milers. Flat pedals by DMR are on the shopping list though!

The stock pedals from the hybrid are sitting on my new road bike until I either brave SPDs again or just get another set of DMRs. To be perfectly honest I will probably not return to SPDs as I too prefer flexibility and freedom of foot movement.

So if anyone wants a pair of SPD/SPDSL road shoes by DHB that are size 10/44, and are in pretty good nick, and two sets of SPD cleats and the SPD pedals, slip me £30 and they're yours!!

Stu


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## Shortmember (11 Jun 2013)

You only have to forget to unclip yourself once and you may fall into the path of a heavy, fast moving commutermobile, and that would ruin your whole day.I'd rather accept the slight loss of pedalling efficiency with flats rather than risk my neck with SPD's.


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## jonny jeez (11 Jun 2013)

Ride how you feel comfy.


For me, 
I've always ridden with clipless pedals (IE with the clip-in spd system...confused?) and have never had a fall (other than a proper stack on an MTB that had nothing to do with pedal choice, just lack of talent)

Thing is though, I've been riding for a good 20 years (5 as a commuter and regular rider) and I've only just...like this summer...started to truly get the benefit of clipless pedals. I always rode by pushing down on each pedal...normal right? 

Pulling up on the pedals was a massive hardship and knackered me out really quickly. But as my cycle fitness has improved recently I now pull up an awful lot on hills and flats and the impact is like pressing a turbo boost, I get a huge injection of speed that allows me to coast a little or perhaps ease off towards the top.

Clipless allow me to concentrate on another thing too...Cadence.

By rotating the pedal rather than pushing it, I can even out my cadence and use my all gears to keep the RPM even, this really helps recovery and stops me getting pooped out on longer rides. It also *feels* wonderful, like I have an additional level of control over my bike that I never had before.

If you feel ready, I'd give it another go and resign yourself to practising for 20 rides. (no matter how far).

after 20 uses it'll be habit.

Good luck


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## Summerking (11 Jun 2013)

Personally I ride clipped in on my flat bar road bike as it is the best thing for clocking up miles, I use shimano spds with mountainbike shoes but when I had a decent road bike I used Look clips and pedals. Offroad on my mountainbike I always use flat pedals as I often need to 'dab' a foot down to stay sunny side up.


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## Rob3rt (11 Jun 2013)

Cyclist33 said:


> Myth.


 
Lies!

*Note I don't know the numbers, nor do I care, I was just making a vague 1 word comment with no regard for accuracy because I had a moment to spare!


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## MacB (11 Jun 2013)

Thread title - Who Is Not Clipped in and Why

answers on a postcard


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## Cyclist33 (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497412, member: 30090"]Ah I see. So this is why you've labelled my post as a myth.

You can't ride clipless. <points to the screen and laughs>

And this is me passing you up a hill because I can generate more power and efficiency. [/quote]


It doesn't say anything about not being able to ride clipless. I can and have done.

Come on, it's hardly rocket science! Don't give yourself airs because you can plug your foot into a socket.


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## jonny jeez (11 Jun 2013)

MacB said:


> Thread title - Who Is Not Clipped in and Why
> 
> answers on a postcard


 
well said....


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## Crackle (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497408, member: 30090"]Whopee, some common sense speaks at last.

[/quote]

Which is a euphemism for someone who agrees with you and the link talked about steep hills.


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## Rob3rt (11 Jun 2013)

Cyclist33 said:


> It doesn't say anything about not being able to ride clipless. I can and have done.
> 
> Come on, it's hardly rocket science! Don't give yourself airs because you can plug your foot into a socket.


 

Do not dispute his words, he generates efficiency!


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## Herzog (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497412, member: 30090"]

And this is me passing you up a hill because I can generate more power and efficiency. [/quote]


You'd need a bike first...


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## youngoldbloke (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497634, member: 30090"]Which in turn is what the op was having trouble with. This is why the pros all use toe clips and straps during the mountain stages[/quote]
Do they?


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## Crackle (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497634, member: 30090"]Which in turn is what the op was having trouble with. This is why the pros all use toe clips and straps during the mountain stages[/quote]
She didn't, read it again and see. She was basically musing whether she should persevere with them. There's an awful lot you can do to improve on a bike before you get around to improving pedalling technique, which in 30 years I've never felt the need to consciously do. Someone like Rob on the other hand, might well try to improve it a he is very much into tt'ing. Horses for courses.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497634, member: 30090"]This is why the pros all use toe clips and straps during the mountain stages[/quote]
Do they?


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## Rob3rt (11 Jun 2013)

Crackle said:


> She didn't, read it again and see. She was basically musing whether she should persevere with them. There's an awful lot you can do to improve on a bike before you get around to improving pedalling technique, which in 30 years I've never felt the need to consciously do. *Someone like Rob on the other hand, might well try to improve it a he is very much into tt'ing.* Horses for courses.


 
Might come as a surprise, or maybe not but I have never made a concious decision to "improve" my pedalling technique other than being able to stomp harder and for longer  But as I said before, if I try to ride in normal shoes now, I lose contact with the pedals at the top of the pedal stroke fairly often and it feels rather odd and marginally unsafe not being clipped in, so something has naturally changed in the way I pedal having cycled with clipless pedals for years. It would probably only take a short while to transition back. But it does make you wonder, what gains those adaptations provide, if any. It could simply be a different way of achieving the same thing, it could indeed increase the ability to transmit as much power as possible.

I wouldn't say that I notice pulling up or unweighting the pedals when clipped in either though, I do of course pull up consciously when trying to wrestle over small lumps as fast as possible or up steep hills or when "sprinting" (i.e. accelerating away from the starter or out of a corner) or when churning out big number efforts on the turbo. But when riding under normal conditions or even racing, on the road, it feels like I just press down as per normal for 95+% of the time.


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## Boris Bajic (11 Jun 2013)

[QUOTE 2497634, member: 30090"]Which in turn is what the op was having trouble with. This is why *the pros all use toe clips and straps during the mountain stages*[/quote]

You joker!!!!! 

To reply to the OP, I think it's whatever you want it to be. Use clipless if you want. 

I was a late convert to clipless, having ridden for decades with flats or rat cages. I went over in the late 90s (MTB and road types) and I have to say it improved the riding experience.

For some it may not. I'm not a 'serious' cyclist, but I am keen and I've been known to put some miles in.

Even when riding on flats, I prefer to do so in SPD shoes - as the stiffer sole seems to help with my riding. This may all be in my mind, but then so are the echoing voice of doom and the psychotic bunny behind the sofa. 

On fixed, I don't venture further than the shops unless I'm clipped in, as it is a scary old business to have a foot slip off a pedal at speed.

Ultimately, ride what you want and how you want. It is a free (ish) world. There are people who think you 'unserious' if you ride flat pedals, but they are the same people who always tell you the model year when saying what they ride. They take themselves seriously so others don't have to....

Enjoy your cycling.


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## fossyant (11 Jun 2013)

Clipped in on all bikes here. Prefer road Looks but use SPD most of the time fot commuting. You dont want loose feet on a fixed.


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## MontyVeda (27 Jun 2013)

regarding being clipped in... just how much 'actual' benefit does pulling up on the back foot give?


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## mickle (27 Jun 2013)

Time to roll out this article again methinks......

*The Shoes Ruse*

In this extract from his book JUST RIDE, Grant Petersen of Rivendell Bicycle Works explodes some of the myths surrounding clip-in pedals

*




*​ 
A firm attachment to the pedals was helpful and almost necessary in the early days of bike racing, when all bikes had fixed gears (no freewheel, no coasting), and the gears were low by today’s standards. Then, once the racers got up to 18 miles per hour or so, they were spinning the pedals like human roadrunners, and if a foot came off the pedal, it was harder to slow the bike down and find the pedals again. Toe clips, straps, and cleats evolved to secure the foot and reduce the danger of runaway pedals, and eventually the freewheel eliminated that danger altogether. But by then, the clips and straps were entrenched, and there was no going back. By 1980, if you rode a bike and didn’t use toe clips, straps, and cleats, you weren’t _serious_.
Then, in the mid ’80s, LOOK—a ski boot and binding maker—introduced ski-binding technology to bikes, with the first popular clipless pedal-and-shoe system. Pro racers took to it, other manufacturers followed, and within three years virtually every road racer in the First World had converted. It spilled over to mountain-bike racing, and today even a few gullible commuters have adopted them. When I see ten-year-olds riding with clipless shoes and pedals, I fear for the future.
Proponents say:
With clipless, there’s more power to the pedal because it’s not being absorbed by a soft and flexible shoe sole.
With clipless, it’s easier to apply power all around the circular pedal stroke.
Neither is true, though.
As long as your pedals aren’t dinky - say, as long as they’re 2.5 x 3.5 inches, or about the size of a compact digital camera - any shoe does the job without flexing, because the shoe is supported by the pedal. If the pedal can’t flex, the shoe can’t - no matter how flexy it may be just out of the box. Besides, the part of your foot that’s behind the pedal can’t flex while you’re pedaling, because your foot mechanics won’t allow it.
The only riders who benefit from clipless pedals are racers, and only because their pedals are so small and slippery. If you don’t ride tiny, slippery pedals, you don’t need stiff, cleated shoes.
And the 360-degrees-of-power argument is just as weak. In studies where efficient, pro pedal-ers and lousy rookie pedalers have been hooked up to machines that measure muscle activity during pedaling, the machines tell us that nobody pulls up on the backstroke. The most efficient pedalers just push down less on the upward moving pedal than the rookies do. (They still push down on the upward-moving pedal - not a good thing, because effectively one leg is fighting the other - but the best pedalers push down less.) Now, if they don’t pull up, you don’t pull up, and if you don’t pull up, there’s no 360 degrees of power, and no biomechanical/physiological reason to lock your foot to the pedal.
The benefits of pedaling free far outweigh any real or imagined benefits of being locked in. They are as follows:
You can wear any casual shoe in your closet - whatever your mood, your outfit, and the weather calls for. You don’t have to go find your “cycling shoes” because you won’t have invested in techie two-hundred-dollar pedals that require them.
Your muscles last longer. Moving your foot about the pedal shifts the load, even if slightly, to different muscles, and spreads the load around. Sprint up hills on the balls of your feet and, on long-seated climbs, push with the pedal centered almost under your arch. It’s not a turbocharged, magic sweet spot, but it feels better and more natural, and you can’t do it if you’re locked in.
You reduce the chance of a repetitive stress injury, because your feet naturally move around more, changing your biomechanics.
You get off and on easier at stoplights; there’s no twisting to get out of your pedals, no fussing to get back in.
You can walk in stores without walking on your heels. You can run! You aren’t handicapped by expensive and weird-looking shoes.
Riding “free” isn’t new or revolutionary, and it’s not just a grumpy stab at the established order. It’s normal, it’s natural - it’s the way you rode as a kid, the way most of the planet rides, and the way you’d ride if you weren’t under the racing influence. Can you imagine yourself - after years or decades of perfectly uneventful happy riding in regular shoes and pedals - concluding that you’d be better off riding in shoes that didn’t work as well off the bike, or on pedals that required special shoes?
I know - of course - that it helps to be firmly attached to the pedal when you’re sprinting in the rain (your foot may slip off the pedals without a fixed connection), or hopping over a dead raccoon, or hiking the bike up over a curb without getting off. But giving up normal shoes for a few rare circumstances like these doesn’t make sense.

*From JUST RIDE by Grant Petersen ISBN-13: 978-0761155584*
*Grant Petersen is founder and chief honcho at Rivendell Bike Works - www.rivbike.com*


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## MontyVeda (27 Jun 2013)

thanks for that Mickle... I'm not knocking the info, but it does come across as bias.

I'm asking because last w/e, i had a conversation with two clip fanatics and tried to explain (badly) that the 'up-stoke' concept doesn't hold much weight, nor does being clipped in give 'smoother rotation'... but they weren't buying it and being owners of clipless pedals, are by default, an authority on cycling over me with my flats, who is by default, an ignorant amatuer. (it became quite a heated debate)

Thanks for posting... now where's the pro clip argument to counter the above?


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## CycloneCharlie (27 Jun 2013)

I know the clips are meant to add 10% to power/efficiency, but to me the number one priority is safety. I want to be able to take my feet out of the pedals without a second's thought in an emergency situation. I had several falls, but the final straw was falling off into the path of oncoming traffic, I wont even consider them again.


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## MontyVeda (27 Jun 2013)

CycloneCharlie said:


> I know the clips are meant to *add 10%* to power/efficiency
> ...


 
it's figures like this i find hard to believe... where's the science?



jonny jeez said:


> ...
> 
> By rotating the pedal rather than pushing it, I can even out my cadence and use my all gears to keep the RPM even, ....


 
this, i believe, is entirely possible with decent platform pedals too... it's a technique/mindset thing, rather than a 'gear' thing.


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## youngoldbloke (27 Jun 2013)

....... round and round and round we go ........


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## CycloneCharlie (27 Jun 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> it's figures like this i find hard to believe... where's the science?


Only hearsay... I have yet to see raw data from studies done on this. I'd bet that there is little is any energy coming from pedal upstroke.


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## mrandmrspoves (27 Jun 2013)

Best solution flat pedals (because they're on the bike when you buy it and don't cost extra and no special shoes)

Second best solution for those who want to ride using clipless .....get a recumbent trike! (No clipless moments!!)

My personal experience is I started using SPD's when cycling around Thetford Forest on my MTB and found that they helped stop my wet and muddy feet slipping off the pedals - so I liked them. I had my clipless moments falling into gorse bushes or stinging nettles - not comfy, but better than falling under a bus.
I grew to like using SPD's and I find it very difficult now to ride without them as I tend to lift my feet off the pedals. 
Now I ride my Trice I love coming to a halt and being able to remain clipped in.


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## Chris Norton (27 Jun 2013)

I also have an issue with feet slipping off pedals, probably my technique more than anything else. So I used to use old style track pedals with clips. Used to have knee problems specifically tendinitis. Fast forward 20 years and I now use duel sided pedals, one side for off to work or the shops, spd clips with racing shoes for when I'm on a ride. Now here's where it gets interesting, due to the amount of adjustment and float with the clipped in, I never lose my feet on the pedal and more importantly for me, have not had knee problems. 

For me, I probably would never go back to non clips for serious rides. Do I think I get some performance increase due to the clipped in? Only the fact my feet are always on the pedals.


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## MontyVeda (27 Jun 2013)

Chris Norton said:


> ... Do I think I get some performance increase due to the clipped in? Only the fact *my feet are always on the pedals*.


 
so are mine, on platform pedals and _any_* pair of shoes... my foot has never** slipped off

* ok, not 'any' pair of shoes, but any of _my_ shoes.

** this is not a fact... I have had slippy pedals in the past, but the latest pair, bought a decade ago... I've never slipped off 'em.


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## Chris Norton (27 Jun 2013)

And therefore, I consider it either to be my technique or my own body's mechanics for my slipping off pedals.


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## MontyVeda (27 Jun 2013)

or the type of pedals you had.


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## Chris Norton (27 Jun 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> or the type of pedals you had.


Or a combination of all of them. 

It works for my knees not my performance (which is generally what everyone barks on about)


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## rovers1875 (27 Jun 2013)

Who is not clipped in? ME
Why? Because I like flat platform pedals, I'm to lazy / tight fisted to buy new pedals and shoes. if I wanted to improve my speed / efficiency, then my first change would be eat less pies drink less alcohol and lose a stone or so. 
By the way what is a proper cyclist anyway.


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## the_mikey (27 Jun 2013)

I rode wearing wellies on the folding bike today...


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## Herbie (27 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker said:


> I bought SPDs earlier this year and found them difficult, mainly because I had 2 hills I couldn't get up and had to walk them both. After a fall I took the SPDs back off the bike and the shoes went back into the box.
> 
> Now months later I'm sailing up those hills and for a while now I've been able to do my route without any problems. Only stopping for some water and blow my nose once or twice. I've been thinking of going back to the SPDs but not convinced. I'm not having a problem with my trainers and the steel cage pedals.
> 
> ...


 
I have SPD shoes but rarely wear them...my pedals have a flat side and a side for SPDs....I had a few embarrassing incidents where I fell off when I was stationary at traffic lights...happens to everyone at some point I guess...I found they very make very little difference to me and the way I cycle...I kinda like the peace of mind of being able to take my foot off the pedals instantly and without having to think about it...each to their own though eh


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## rovers1875 (27 Jun 2013)

the_mikey said:


> I rode wearing wellies on the folding bike today...


 
Some people are just blessed with style.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Jun 2013)

Herbie said:


> I have SPD shoes but rarely wear them...my pedals have a flat side and a side for SPDs....I had a few embarrassing incidents where I fell off when I was stationary at traffic lights...happens to everyone at some point I guess...I found they very make very little difference to me and the way I cycle...I kinda like the peace of mind of being able to take my foot off the pedals instantly and without having to think about it...each to their own though eh


 

I honestly wish the Mod's would put a fixed post on here about SPD's and cleats.

SH51 cleats - standard issue and potentially *loody dangerous esp' for those new to them. They should come with a health warning. I am aware that people do get used to them. However, the 'clipless moment' tales are legion on bike forums - all highly amusing until the day someone has a 'clipless' and topples under the wheels of a bus; cue "so sorry to hear this" thread in CC.

SH56 cleats or 'Multi-release' cleats - buy these for £10-15 depending on your ability/willingness to trawl the web for bargains. Fit them. Forget them. Even as a total Noob you can use these from day one of bike ownership. You simply get on your bike and clip in (this is the hardest bit tbh but no biggy) and then, when you want to unclip, just take your foot off the pedal as though it was a flattie and voila your foot magically releases with zero drama.

No "moments", no drama, no gashed limbs, no nice new shiny bike damage.

Apart from one or two other posters who mention them on here this does not seem to get picked up on. Why, is a mystery to me.


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## the_mikey (28 Jun 2013)

rovers1875 said:


> Some people are just blessed with style.


 

I know, they were Pewter coloured hunters!


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## Boon 51 (28 Jun 2013)

I wear clipless on the road and hybrid but not on the mtb..


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## ianrauk (28 Jun 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I honestly wish the Mod's would put a fixed post on here about SPD's and cleats.


 


There is a stickey....*HERE* in this very part of the forum.


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## SpokeyDokey (28 Jun 2013)

ianrauk said:


> There is a stickey....*HERE* in this very part of the forum.


 

I've seen that but it doesn't mention different cleats esp' from a newbies perspective.


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## threebikesmcginty (28 Jun 2013)

Aaahhh the freedom of flat pedals and Birkenstocks on a race bike


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## ianrauk (28 Jun 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I've seen that but it doesn't mention different cleats esp' from a newbies perspective.


 


Then feel free to add to the thread.


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## hopless500 (28 Jun 2013)

I'm waiting for delivery of a pair of clip-in shoes - the new bike has spds (although currently got my flats on there) and I am quite sure I will go splat at some point


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jun 2013)

I'm not clipped in, because I'm wearing crocs and I doubt the heel strap would assist in any way with my walk to the kettle.


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## mickle (28 Jun 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I honestly wish the Mod's would put a fixed post on here about SPD's and cleats.
> 
> SH51 cleats - standard issue and potentially *loody dangerous esp' for those new to them. They should come with a health warning. I am aware that people do get used to them. However, the 'clipless moment' tales are legion on bike forums - all highly amusing until the day someone has a 'clipless' and topples under the wheels of a bus; cue "so sorry to hear this" thread in CC.
> 
> ...


 
Well now we know.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jun 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I honestly wish the Mod's would put a fixed post on here about SPD's and cleats.
> 
> SH51 cleats - standard issue and* potentially* **loody dangerous* esp' for those new to them. They should come with a *health warning*. I am aware that people do get used to them. However, the *'clipless moment'* tales are legion on bike forums - all highly *amusing* until the day someone has a *'clipless' and topples under the wheels of a bus;* cue "so sorry to hear this" thread in CC.
> 
> ...


Could you do the sticky a favor and not contribute towards it? People generally have enough reservations about fixing their feet to pedals without the additional doom and gloom I've bolded.

"clipless moment tales" requires reference and context. 



> I fell off my bike yesterday, I was wearing spd shoes.


That makes spd shoes out to be the issue or indeed cause of the fall. 



> I fell off my bike yesterday whilst wearing spd shoes because I lost my wheel on a root.


The pedals were irrelevant in this case.


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2013)

I'd describe SH56's as lethal. Not safe if you like sprinting away from the lights or riding hard out of the saddle. SH51's are ridiculously easy to get out of, much perfer road systems due to the stronger foot retention.


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## SpokeyDokey (28 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> I'd describe SH56's as lethal. Not safe if you like sprinting away from the lights or riding hard out of the saddle. SH51's are ridiculously easy to get out of, much perfer road systems due to the stronger foot retention.


 

Was talking about beginners who tend not to sprint out of the saddle and ride hard away from the lights. If they are so easy to get out of why do a fair few riders have clipless moments?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Jun 2013)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Was talking about beginners who tend not to sprint out of the saddle and ride hard away from the lights. If they are so easy to get out of why do a* fair few riders have clipless moments?*


Based on what? A thread or two on here?


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## Salad Dodger (28 Jun 2013)

I prefer not clipped in. I like the option of being able to have a quick "dab" if I think I am going to fall - especially off road. Also I like to be able to walk freely when I am off the bike.

So I go for DMR V8 pedals (which have little studs screwed into them that grip to the bottom of your shoes, but which will knock holes in your shins pretty easily....)


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## Ladytrucker (29 Jun 2013)

Guys, got myself sorted with a lovely pair of white/pink/navy astroturff trainers for on the bike. Look the part waterproof(ish) and warm. Good grip on the bottom and they also do them in a very high viz yellow/green if I want to look like a highlighter in the winter. For the rest of the summer these will do.


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## Mr Haematocrit (29 Jun 2013)

I'm clipped in, look Keo2 carbon and titanium pedals.. I find being clipped in gives me better control over my Q.factor which has in turn improved my performances and consistency.


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## fossyant (29 Jun 2013)

Ladytrucker said:


> Guys, got myself sorted with a lovely pair of white/pink/navy astroturff trainers for on the bike. Look the part waterproof(ish) and warm. Good grip on the bottom and they also do them in a very high viz yellow/green if I want to look like a highlighter in the winter. For the rest of the summer these will do.



How stiff is the sole ?


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## Ladytrucker (29 Jun 2013)

About the same as my trainers, I don't need stiff soles I just need the grip for my cage pedals. I was looking for slim shoes which were not mesh and I like these. I don't do the serious miles some of you guys do and don't need to have hard soles.


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## tomahawk (30 Jun 2013)

Started with clipless last Thursday. Rode for 9 miles and they were super - definitely an improved riding experience - I like the fact that I can unclip one pedal and then just pull up my clipped in foot to bring the pedal up ready for riding. Then I decided to stop in a grassy area at the side and forgot to unclip and over I went. It's easy to unclip but the trick is to remember to unclip. I completed the last couple of miles without incident so we'll see how I do on the commute this week.


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## Cupra (1 Jul 2013)

tomahawk said:


> Started with clipless last Thursday. Rode for 9 miles and they were super - definitely an improved riding experience - I like the fact that I can unclip one pedal and then just pull up my clipped in foot to bring the pedal up ready for riding. Then I decided to stop in a grassy area at the side and forgot to unclip and over I went. It's easy to unclip but the trick is to remember to unclip. I completed the last couple of miles without incident so we'll see how I do on the commute this week.


at least it was on grass.


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