# Tell me how to love hills...



## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

I used to cycle a lot as a young girl and as a teenage tomboy, took great pleasure in beating the boys on the straight, in my single-speed, huge-wheeled Raleigh that my father bought for a tenner.
I had a few road bikes after that and loved them too. The sensation of speed was exhilarating. Then, in the 90s, and noughties, I somehow ditched the racer and went around on a MTB. Now, in my late 40s, I bought a women’s Specialized Tarmac Disc Expert (I secretly wanted the S-Works really!) and took to road biking again. I discovered Strava (the dreaded ‘S’ word) and found, to my amazement and delight that some of my very first rides on my new road bike had segments that put me in the top 10 or 20 of all-time women. HOWEVER, even with a new and beautiful road bike, I am still crap at hills. I can get up them - even though I dread and hate them - but I can’t go fast up them and I certainly don’t enjoy them. On the hills, I don’t know where to look - do I look at the horizon or down at the floor and pretend the ground is flat? I feel a bit of a cheat and a rubbish cyclist if all my achievements and strengths are sprinting or on sharp/severe or even very gentle descents. I can go on moderately long rides (60 miles) on my own, averaging 16mph or more and I am not afraid to plummet down hills at 40mph but my average mph falls to 14.5 overall when hills (inclines) are factored in. Sometimes I climb at a ridiculous 5mph. Is this largely a physical or a mental thing? I am 5ft4’ and have a typically athletic and muscular frame. I have never been skinny. In an ideal world, I would lose 8lb (and be 9 stone) but despite playing a lot of sport (netball, badminton, tennis, yoga) I can’t shift the 8lb.
Sooo, how can I get better at hills? Is it
A) learn to love them (mind over matter)
B) lose the 8lb, you lard-a*se !
C) practice, practice, practice, train, train, train
My pescetarian diet is based on non-processed, natural foods. I am not a cake-eater!
Thanks for reading through this and I hope you can help me to improve. As you can tell, I am very impatient


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## 13 rider (8 Nov 2018)

You may never learn to love climbs but keep at and you will get better. The more you do the quicker you will get no short cuts . Climbing is certainly a mental as well as physical challenge . Everyone has there own technique to get up you just need to find yours . Gear slection is very important but again very personal too low a gear and your legs spin to quick too big and your turnover is too slow . Ideally at the bottom of the climb select the gear you know will get you to the top and spin away . Keep at it


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

I love hills and ride up and down them all the time. The thing is though ... you are already _way _quicker than me, so I can't give you any meaningful advice on what you should do. (Unless "_Don't worry about speeding up - just enjoy riding at whatever speed you feel comfortable with_" counts as meaningful advice! )

PS If you _DO _manage to speed up, let us know how you did it - I'd like to speed up too!


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> I love hills and ride up and down them...
> 
> PS If you _DO _manage to speed up, let us know how you did it - I'd like to speed up too!



Thanks Colin, I do love the straights and I don’t mind tincy, gentle inclines but more than 1% and I get a bit panicky at having to change to the small sprocket and change cadence/tack, as it were. I do think that the more ‘slender’ people manage hill climbs far more easily. I wonder if it helps to be tall as well (which I obviously am not). If I should get better at hills, I will be sure to share my ‘knowledge’.


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

Okay, one piece of advice - experiment with your gears. You might be a grinder but spinning, or a spinner but grinding! (I am a spinner.)

PS Ah - I didn't know that you meant 1% - I was thinking more like 10-20%!

Play with the numbers at Bike Calculator and you will be surprised at how much even a gentle slope knocks your speed back. For example, the power that gets me to 16 mph would only get me to 10 mph up a 2% slope.


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

13 rider said:


> You may never learn to love climbs but keep at and you will get better. The more you do the quicker you will get no short cuts . Climbing is certainly a mental as well as physical challenge . Everyone has there own technique to get up you just need to find yours . Gear slection is very important but again very personal too low a gear and your legs spin to quick too big and your turnover is too slow . Ideally at the bottom of the climb select the gear you know will get you to the top and spin away . Keep at it


Thank you. My legs never spin, even in the easiest gear on a moderate hill. I think I need a lot of practice. Sometimes I have no gears left, even on a 12% hill - which means maybe I’m not trying hard enough?


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Okay, one piece of advice - experiment with your gears. You might be a grinder but spinning, or a spinner but grinding! (I am a spinner.)




Sorry, what’s a grinder? Sorry to be thick! I’m never happier than when I’m on the largest sprocket, building up speed.


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## Pumpkin the robot (8 Nov 2018)

The only way to get better at hills is to do more hills.
I think once your speed picks up on the hills, your competative side will come out, and you will enjoy doing hills as much as riding on the flat or downhill.


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Sorry, what’s a grinder? Sorry to be thick! I’m never happier than when I’m on the largest sprocket, building up speed.


'Sprocket' is usually used for the cogs at the back. You are probably talking about the big chainring (front)?

Grinders tend to use big chainrings and small sprockets. That gives them a high gear ratio and a low pedalling cadence. You see some riders overdoing it and struggling to 'grind' the cranks round. Spinners are the opposite - using smaller chainrings and/or larger sprockets for a lower gear ratio and a higher cadence to achieve the same speed. Some riders do not like the feeling of their legs whizzing round. I don't like the feeling of having to force the cranks round. Even with low gears, once you get to really steep hills (say) 15+% then it always going to be hard work no matter what gear ratio you use!


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## Dayvo (8 Nov 2018)

Don't bother riding UP them. Just go down. 



Nope, there are no shortcuts, I'm afraid. As Pumpkin says, you just have to stick at it.


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## gavroche (8 Nov 2018)

When it comes to where to look, personally, I look right in front my front wheel and every now and again, just look up to see where I am. If you keep looking way ahead, the top of the hill never seem to get any closer.


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## 13 rider (8 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Thank you. My legs never spin, even in the easiest gear on a moderate hill. I think I need a lot of practice. Sometimes I have no gears left, even on a 12% hill - which means maybe I’m not trying hard enough?


High cadence does feel odd but you can practice it . On the levels drop a couple of gears but try to maintain the same speed to teach your legs to spin . 
Do you know how many teeth your largest sprocket on the rear wheel has ? .


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## screenman (8 Nov 2018)

Not a cake eater, how could you? Best bit of advice I was once given was to never look too far ahead, it works fr me.


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## MikeG (8 Nov 2018)

Watch the best professional climbers. They're universally skinny, and more and more of them are spinning low gears whilst sitting, rather than trying to force their way up a mountain using strength. Think of it as an endurance activity, not a power activity............and lose those 8lbs!


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## colly (8 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> On the hills, I don’t know where to look - do I look at the horizon or down at the floor and pretend the ground is flat?



Funny that, I have never thought about 'where' I look, I just ....do it. 
I got back on a bike years ago at 40 odd and spent a couple of years actually seeking out climbs. The longer and harder the better. I got over that but I know I used to be a grinder. Out of the saddle heaving the bike left and right in as big a gear as I could manage. I got over that too and settled on a bit of spinning and a bit of grinding depending on how I felt and what the hill was like. 
I like hills, I have no idea why though. Sense of accomplishment of getting up and over? Beating the b*****ds maybe? I can't tell you why.
I use all my gears on a hilly ride so will often be twiddling away on a long climb. The odd thing is that I like riding a fixed wheel too and I manage quite well on hills even though on the same hill with gears I will be changing down and down.

I have a feeling it's as much mental as it is physical.


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## JtB (8 Nov 2018)

I love hills, but not for the reason you might think. When your heart’s pounding and your lungs are pumping, none of life’s petty distractions such as office politics matter. All that matters in that moment is getting to the top of the hill and that makes hills great stress relievers.


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## LeetleGreyCells (8 Nov 2018)

It also depends upon the surface you’re riding and the type of tyres you have. If you have little grip, it’s better to sit and spin as your body weight will help hold the back wheel to the ground. If you’ve got good grip then out of the saddle in a higher gear may be easier. Personal preference plays a big part too. My son hates riding out of the saddle.


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## Edwardoka (8 Nov 2018)

Just keep riding up them. I went from truly hating hills to actively seeking them out and as a result my technique and endurance improved vastly (and back to hating them again after I lost my fitness)
After a while you develop a feel for it, there's a rhythm that is very satisfying once you dial it in.

The problem with being the kind of person to push a big gear when going uphill is that it's not the kind of effort that you can keep repeating on a ride (the muscle fibres used in a big effort are different from those used when spinning, and they tire out *much* more quickly), and if you run out of gas before the top you're left struggling on a smaller gear anyway.

Unless it's a small climb that you know you can power over without losing speed, it's better to shift down early and spin a small gear at a pace you can maintain all the way through.

If you find yourself having run out of gears on a steep climb, alternate between pushing your bottom gear while sitting and shifting up a couple of gears and getting out of the saddle for a short burst. This will break up the monotony, and give some muscle fibres a chance to recover while you use others.

Finally, don't focus on how fast you are on climbs when compared to other people, there will always be people who are faster. It's rare that I find any who are slower than me but I will (usually) get up the hill.


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## Ian H (8 Nov 2018)

Vary your pace on hills. Attack some to the point where you're struggling to breathe by the top; pootle up others. It's a kind of informal interval training. After a few weeks you should notice a difference.
Riding with others also helps.


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## Cuchilo (8 Nov 2018)

Pick a big hill and do it three times . I find the third time is easier than the first and second . Do it a few times and then move on to a bigger hill .
Cake will help .


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## Boon 51 (8 Nov 2018)

If you can ride out of the saddle try pushing your heel at the back and that will make your calf muscles work as well. Most people's calf muscles are a bit lazy so they need a bit of a push also just check your tyre pressures and make sure they are inflated properly too.
As been said practice and more practice.. Good luck it will get easier I'm sure.


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## biggs682 (8 Nov 2018)

Like others say just keep going up hill's and try and keep in the best gear that suits you and the hill you are riding up is it worthwhile varying the hills from hard to easy and back to hard ones etc etc


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Nov 2018)

As Ian says vary your speed on them. Push hard on some, take it easy on others, mix it up a little.


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## Edwardoka (8 Nov 2018)

[QUOTE 5435904, member: 9609"]It's advice that is often given but I like to see how far to go so as I can pace myself. Have just started night time riding again and I really don't like not knowing where the top is.[/QUOTE]
I'm the complete opposite. I adore climbing at night. I imagine it's even better in your part of the world.

Any thoughts of performance or training gone. The world disappears, reduced to a cone of light and no noise but the sound of your heart and your breathing and the swish of the tyres. Braw.


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

Of course, most of you are probably not tackling this kind of thing regularly ... 










I confess that I had just had to dismount when I took the first picture. I've got fitter since then and have managed to get all the way to the top on several occasions.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Nov 2018)

Practice really does make perfect: it took a while but I now ride happily up hills I previously avoided and don't notice hills that would once have bothered me. 

That said I mainly cycle for transport, so to continue your list I take the attitude of (d) You aren't going too slowly if you haven't fallen over yet. 

I have to admit that I also frequently decide that (e) Hills are what trams and buses are for.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Nov 2018)

Did a 34km uphill in the Dolomites in the summer. Loved it. My wife beat me by train and bus but I was was quicker on way back.


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## Cuchilo (8 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Of course, most of you are probably not tackling this kind of thing regularly ...
> 
> View attachment 437648
> 
> ...


Nice tarmac !


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## Grant Fondo (8 Nov 2018)

I got to enjoy hills by doing the same ones regularly and improving each time..two in particular Whiteways in the Purbecks and Lantau HK which i had to walk parts of for the first 2 or 3 attempts then nailed it even when 35 degrees and stoopid humidity. Being 16 stone doesnt help much i must admit.


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

MikeG said:


> Watch the best professional climbers. They're universally skinny, and more and more of them are spinning low gears whilst sitting, rather than trying to force their way up a mountain using strength. Think of it as an endurance activity, not a power activity............and lose those 8lbs!



I’m sure going to try to lose those 8lb. It may seem like harsh advice but I think it’s good advice and I think it’s worth trying hard for. Thank you.


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Nice tarmac !


Looks like the hills in the GCN videos! Great going


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

RealLeeHimself said:


> It also depends upon the surface you’re riding and the type of tyres you have. If you have little grip, it’s better to sit and spin as your body weight will help hold the back wheel to the ground. If you’ve got good grip then out of the saddle in a higher gear may be easier. Personal preference plays a big part too. My son hates riding out of the saddle.


Me too. I am with your son. I have slick kind of tyres and much prefer to stay seated for the climb.


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## Grant Fondo (8 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Of course, most of you are probably not tackling this kind of thing regularly ...
> 
> View attachment 437648
> 
> ...


Thats a beast of a hairpin...wpuld be good in a Caterham!


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Just keep riding up them. I went from truly hating hills to actively seeking them out and as a result my technique and endurance improved vastly (and back to hating them again after I lost my fitness)
> After a while you develop a feel for it, there's a rhythm that is very satisfying once you dial it in.
> 
> The problem with being the kind of person to push a big gear when going uphill is that it's not the kind of effort that you can keep repeating on a ride (the muscle fibres used in a big effort are different from those used when spinning, and they tire out *much* more quickly), and if you run out of gas before the top you're left struggling on a smaller gear anyway.
> ...


This is BRILLIANT advice, very many thanks.


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## steven1988 (8 Nov 2018)

RealLeeHimself said:


> It also depends upon the surface you’re riding and the type of tyres you have. If you have little grip, it’s better to sit and spin as your body weight will help hold the back wheel to the ground. If you’ve got good grip then out of the saddle in a higher gear may be easier. Personal preference plays a big part too. My son hates riding out of the saddle.



That sounds like good advice where did you get that from?


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> Nice tarmac !


I think it had been relaid the year before. That road no longer has many heavy vehicles on it. There was a near tragedy 20+ years ago when the brakes failed on a Calor Gas wagon coming down that 25% slope and heavy vehicles were prohibited after that. (Fortunately, the driver managed to drive off the road without hitting other vehicles or the houses down below.)



capricapers said:


> I’m sure going to try to lose those 8lb. It may seem like harsh advice but I think it’s good advice and I think it’s worth trying hard for. Thank you.


I could still do with losing 8-12 pounds. I used to try and ride up that hill when I was 5 stone overweight and it almost killed me!

It is Mytholm Steeps (up Church Lane, from Hebden Bridge).

The trouble with these really steep hills is that the back wheel will often slip if you get out of the saddle, but if you remain seated then the front wheel can lift ... It is a real balancing act, and especially tricky if the road is wet!


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## LeetleGreyCells (8 Nov 2018)

steven1988 said:


> That sounds like good advice where did you get that from?


Well, there’s this chap I know... and I pay attention. Sometimes he even says something useful...


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## Katherine (8 Nov 2018)

Hi @capricapers. Great post !
I have a similar riding style. I love going fast on the straights and downhill but lose all momentum on the ups. 
When I have done the occasional longer distance rides like the Manchester 100, I found that I was overtaking people on the straights that then over took me on the ups. 

For me, riding uphill is how I earn the fun going downhill. So it's a big incentive for me.
I spin up in as low a gear as necessary to keep a good cadence and yes, it can be as low as 4-6mph but I never stop and as soon as it levels out or descends, I'm moving up through the gears. Going up and down hills I'm changing up and down through the gears all the time. When it's getting steeper, I change down before I lose too much momentum .
Some of my regular hills, I set myself personal challenges, like not dropping below a certain speed.


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## steven1988 (8 Nov 2018)

RealLeeHimself said:


> Well, there’s this chap I know... and I pay attention. Sometimes he even says something useful...



Sounds like a very knowledgeable chap. You must put me in contact with him i could do with some knowledge like that


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

I just found this video taken from a wobbly rear-facing camera on an ascent of Mytholm Steeps. Either the rider was very fit, or riding an e-bike!

The first part of the climb is so brutal that the second half feels easy in comparison but you can see that it keeps going up for a considerable distance.


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## Grant Fondo (8 Nov 2018)

Whiteway in Dorset...what a lovely spot...anyone done it?


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

I've never been to Dorset, but it looks well worth a visit!


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## Specialeyes (8 Nov 2018)

Hills are only in your head until you run out of gears to change down into. I see an incredible amount of people bailing out and walking up hills (even Essex 'hills'!) with the chain only half-way across the cassette and plenty of gears left. They've looked up the road, got demoralised, thought 'I'm never going to make it up there' and listened to the nagging doubts. 

I'll usually try and attack short climbs just to get them done. 
On longer climbs try to find a rhythm early, based on a perceived effort level, and adjust gearing and riding position to maintain that effort level. If your body is suggesting a period out of the saddle, change up a couple of gears and stand for a little burst, just to recruit different muscles and mix it up a bit. change back down as you return to the saddle. Now I come to analyse it, it occurs to me that I look about a car's length ahead and sing Mr Brightside in my head on climbs just to maintain tempo! Whatever works


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

Ian H said:


> Vary your pace on hills. Attack some to the point where you're struggling to breathe by the top; pootle up others. It's a kind of informal interval training. After a few weeks you should notice a difference.
> Riding with others also helps.



Good advice, I think! Have never ridden with anyone else, except my husband. I always leave him behind - except on hills, where/when he catches me up, with a smug smile!


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

Specialeyes said:


> Hills are only in your head until you run out of gears to change down into. I see an incredible amount of people bailing out and walking up hills (even Essex 'hills'!) with the chain only half-way across the cassette and plenty of gears left. They've looked up the road, got demoralised, thought 'I'm never going to make it up there' and listened to the nagging doubts.
> 
> I'll usually try and attack short climbs just to get them done.
> On longer climbs try to find a rhythm early, based on a perceived effort level, and adjust gearing and riding position to maintain that effort level. If your body is suggesting a period out of the saddle, change up a couple of gears and stand for a little burst, just to recruit different muscles and mix it up a bit. change back down as you return to the saddle. Now I come to analyse it, it occurs to me that I look about a car's length ahead and sing Mr Brightside in my head on climbs just to maintain tempo! Whatever works


Haha! Brilliant! Thank you.


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

13 rider said:


> High cadence does feel odd but you can practice it . On the levels drop a couple of gears but try to maintain the same speed to teach your legs to spin .
> Do you know how many teeth your largest sprocket on the rear wheel has ? .


Does 32 sound about right? I marked one of the teeth when it was at 12 o’clock and when it was directly vertically underneath at 6 o’clock, I had counted 32. Hope that tells you something. ?


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> I think it had been relaid the year before. That road no longer has many heavy vehicles on it. There was a near tragedy 20+ years ago when the brakes failed on a Calor Gas wagon coming down that 25% slope and heavy vehicles were prohibited after that. (Fortunately, the driver managed to drive off the road without hitting other vehicles or the houses down below.)
> 
> 
> I could still do with losing 8-12 pounds. I used to try and ride up that hill when I was 5 stone overweight and it almost killed me!
> ...


Hebden Bridge is a beautiful area. Wonderful.


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## slowmotion (8 Nov 2018)

I'm terrible on hills but I practiced by going up the same one again and again, and seeing if I could do it by using a slightly higher gear each time. Torture for me, but it did make a marginal difference to my ability to get up them.
Simon Legg, late of this parish, told all the bad climbers at the bottom of Ditchling Beacon to start in the lowest gear and keep turning the pedals. Sound advice. You really don't have to worry about gear changes!


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## Edwardoka (8 Nov 2018)

Specialeyes said:


> Hills are only in your head until you run out of gears to change down into. *I see an incredible amount of people bailing out and walking up hills *(even Essex 'hills'!) with the chain only half-way across the cassette and plenty of gears left. *They've looked up the road, got demoralised*, thought 'I'm never going to make it up there' and listened to the nagging doubts.


Precisely this happened to me on the Lecht. The dread of knowing it was coming, then actually turning a corner and seeing the road-shaped wall front and centre made me quail. I'd have given the lower slopes a proper go if it wasn't for some in front of me getting off and pushing and giving me an easy out  I did climb about 2/3rds of it by bike, but I have unfinished business with that hill.


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## capricapers (8 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Precisely this happened to me on the Lecht. The dread of knowing it was coming, then actually turning a corner and seeing the road-shaped wall front and centre made me quail. I'd have given the lower slopes a proper go if it wasn't for some in front of me getting off and pushing and giving me an easy out  I did climb about 2/3rds of it by bike, but I have unfinished business with that hill.


That’s why I am such a softy and never look at the crest of the hill but kind of straight in front or even down at the floor, trying to kid myself that the ground is flat or that the hill is tiny.


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## Edwardoka (8 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> That’s why I am such a softy and never look at the crest of the hill but kind of straight in front or even down at the floor, trying to kid myself that the ground is flat or that the hill is tiny.


There is no crest on the hard part of the Lecht. You get to a turn and it opens up to reveal a steeper bit 
I've done most of the famous Pyrenean cols and none of them demoralised me half as much as the Lecht. Presumably because French road engineers aren't sadists


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## slowmotion (8 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Precisely this happened to me on the Lecht. The dread of knowing it was coming, then actually turning a corner and seeing the road-shaped wall front and centre made me quail. I'd have given the lower slopes a proper go if it wasn't for some in front of me getting off and pushing and giving me an easy out  I did climb about 2/3rds of it by bike, but I have unfinished business with that hill.


I think we all have unfinished business when it comes to hills.


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Hebden Bridge is a beautiful area. Wonderful.


Yes, it is. I lived there for 29 years, and am still only 4 miles down the road now.


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## MikeG (9 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> I’m sure going to try to lose those 8lb. It may seem like harsh advice but I think it’s good advice and I think it’s worth trying hard for. Thank you.



Good. I didn't mean to sound harsh, but with intermittent fasting (such as 5:2), losing weight is pretty easy these days. There are threads here on the subject which might be worth having a look at, and climbing hills will be so much easier without half a stone of ballast.


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## MikeG (9 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> .......It is Mytholm Steeps (up Church Lane, from Hebden Bridge)........



I just put this in RidewithGPS, and the steepest part of the climb is a little over 15%. The next road along to the west, Savile Rd, tops out at 21%.

It's pretty hard to beat Porlock Hill (22%) for brutality and beauty. The first time I drove up it I met a caravan coming back down, backwards.......the car having failed to make it up.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2018)

MikeG said:


> climbing hills will be so much easier without half a stone of ballast.



Simple physics, innit. A few years ago I was 2st lighter than I am now and found hills sooooo much more fun.

OTOH, the OP isn’t exactly overweight and shouldn’t get too obsessive about it. It will be possible to get better at hills without losing any more weight simply through practice, as others have said.

In fact, do lots of hill climbing practice and you may find the weight starts to fall off anyway...

Losing weight also risks reducing muscle mass, so you may find that getting quicker uphill may come with being a tad slower on the flat (or at least a bit less power in sprints).


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## Racing roadkill (9 Nov 2018)

Keeping a steady and higher Cadence and seated, is a more efficient way of climbing. The more contact points you maintain with the bike, the better. If you’re on a twisty climb, stay seated on the straight bits, and stand in the uphill corners. Whilst standing, keep your hips forward and your back as straight as you can, and your head up. Try to relax your grip on the bars, as this just creates oxygen demand from the muscles in the shoulders and arms, that is more useful for the legs. Ride more hills, and you’ll soon get used to them, although you may never actually ‘love’ them, they will get less taxing.


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## Aravis (9 Nov 2018)

You want to *love *hills. Is there a type of climb you prefer?

Long, steep and straight I'll wager it isn't. But you might be more comfortable on climbs which have frequent changes in gradient, or you might prefer the long and steady type.

When I had some pretentions as a climber, I knew I definitely preferred the steady type, and the Valleys of South Wales had plenty of those. So I'd spend a lot of time riding up and down the valleys, thoroughly enjoying myself and gradually getting better at it, without ever subjecting myself to serious pain or discouragement. After a while I'd look at the more challenging gradients on the roads I'd been avoiding and I'd start to try some of them, and surprise surprise, they were fun too. Sparingly though, and even in my youth I'd tend to avoid Ordnance Survey double arrows. A succession of single arrows was always preferable, back to the theme of preferring the long and steady.

All blasts from the past I'm afraid. I don't have the power nowadays.

So in summary, do what you enjoy, and lots of it. The inspiration will come.


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## capricapers (9 Nov 2018)

smutchin said:


> Simple physics, innit. A few years ago I was 2st lighter than I am now and found hills sooooo much more fun.
> 
> OTOH, the OP isn’t exactly overweight and shouldn’t get too obsessive about it. It will be possible to get better at hills without losing any more weight simply through practice, as others have said.
> 
> ...




That’s very useful, thanks. I know that most quality cyclists are very slim but I have never been built that way. Now, as I approach 50, my metabolism has changed and things can’t burn off in the way they used to. Even when I go running or do HIIT workouts, I don’t lose actual weight, just tone up. I’m going to aim for the middle course - lose as many pounds as possible (in reality 4lb may be do-able) and practice going up more hills. When I play netball, my strength is pushing off fast (acceleration) - but after a long match, it’s very tiring. It’s hard to have quickness with stamina IMHO.


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## Rooster1 (9 Nov 2018)

Hills fill me with fear and trepidation, but I love them because of that. I don't shy away from the harder ones my area has to offer even if I've ridden them a thousand times before. My weight is my biggest enemy, and i've just been off the bike for 5 weeks and have been to the USA so I am feeling lardy right now.


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> It’s hard to have quickness with stamina IMHO.



You only have to look at the physical difference between Usain Bolt and Mo Farah to see the evidence of that.

If you want to really push yourself, enter some LVRC events - just keeping up will be tough, but riding with stronger, fitter cyclists is a great way to improve yourself. http://www.lvrc.org.uk/


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## MichaelW2 (9 Nov 2018)

Speed on the flats is about power vs aerodynamic drag. In the hills it is about power/weight. Powerful sprinters always have difficulties in the mountains, even (especially!) professionals.

At 5'4" you are smallish, so check your crank length and make sure it is appropriate to your leg length and riding style.

Use your gears. If you are finding yourself in lowest gear and still grinding hard, consider lowering your transmission ratios so you can spin the pedals at higher cadence. The power you put in (watts) determines how fast you go but lower gears will distribute the workload from your legs to your heart and lungs. If your legs hurt, gear down and spin up, if your lungs hurt, gear up and spin down. If both hurt, you are going as fast as you can and if nothing is hurting, you are just enjoying the ride at a slower pace.

There are two style of climbing. In the saddle on lower gears and out of the saddle on higher gears or when you slow down and need to pick up the pace. Mix and match as required.

You can look anywhere you want. Enjoy the scenery, pick a line along the road, head down (be careful), spot wildlife along the verge, keep an eye on the competition.

In my experience, riding on the flats is for useful base fitness but climbing fitness only comes from climbing. Even a small local hill can be useful if you need to train for big mountains.


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## slow scot (9 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> There is no crest on the hard part of the Lecht. You get to a turn and it opens up to reveal a steeper bit
> I've done most of the famous Pyrenean cols and none of them demoralised me half as much as the Lecht. Presumably because French road engineers aren't sadists


You are so right. When the Tourmalet is mentioned at "col" parties, the Lecht just sneers into his dram.


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## capricapers (9 Nov 2018)

MichaelW2 said:


> Speed on the flats is about power vs aerodynamic drag. In the hills it is about power/weight. Powerful sprinters always have difficulties in the mountains, even (especially!) professionals.
> 
> At 5'4" you are smallish, so check your crank length and make sure it is appropriate to your leg length and riding style.
> 
> ...




What a fantastic, knowledgeable and detailed answer! Thank you. It’s so useful and ‘scientific’, that I’m going to cut and paste it into my notes. Many thanks indeed.


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## Bazzer (9 Nov 2018)

What works for me is finding a rhythm. Find your cadence and try to stick with it. 
Also for hills which are going to challenge you, rather than looking at it as big lump, break it down; aim for a grit bin on the side of the road, a particular lamp post, tree, etc. Once you reach that, take a sense of accomplishment in reaching it and then set the next target along the road and so on until you reach the crest.
Finally if it really is hard work, try to take your head elsewhere, so your brain is not concentrating on the hurt you are going through.


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## DEFENDER01 (9 Nov 2018)

I use to hate hills and head winds.
Got an electric bike all is good now.
{ I had a knee replacement it was that or give up cycling.}


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## smutchin (9 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> The top arrives eventually. All you need is patience.



Yep, this pretty much sums it up for me. No hill goes on forever, even if they sometimes feel like it.


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## nickAKA (9 Nov 2018)

As long as you've got a good level of cycling/cardio fitness it's 90% in your head. I can only speak from my own perspective as a fellow hater of hills when I started out... in the first couple of months of "serious" riding I'd have to stop part way on any climb over 10 minutes long with my heart rate at 170+, but once I'd built up some fitness & stamina by putting in the hard miles, I was away.
It could be just your mindset that isn't right - it takes a special kind of masochism to _*really*_ enjoy the physical effort of riding up a 10% gradient for 20 minutes, all the pleasure is in the satisfaction of making it to the top (personally speaking). Even better if you did it quicker than the last time you did it... but don't expect it not to hurt, ever, it always hurts if you're putting in the effort!

So, as stated many times already in the thread, get in the right gear for the hill you're facing. If it's a short steep effort that you can tackle in under a minute, carry as much speed in as you can safely & try to power up it as far as you can out of the saddle. If you have to sit down & spin the pedals for the last 100 yards so be it, you'll improve the more you do it. Have a rest at the top & get your breath back, carry on satisfied that you made it.

If it's a longer effort, get in the correct (low) gear and spin up. Start off in the absolute lowest gear if you must, if it's too easy flick up a gear or two. I distract myself by checking my heart rate as I go; if it's around 155 I know I can carry on at the pace I'm travelling at for a while, even if my legs are complaining... and that's where the mental side really comes in - ignore the pain, once you've proven to yourself you can do it it's all about fitness & stamina. Concentrate on breathing properly, don't strangle the handlebars, keep a nice, steady, even rhythm on the pedals. Stop at the top and have a drink, you've set a benchmark to aim at next time you do it.

And lastly don't fret about weight loss, if you're born to be a mountain goat you'll lose weight by climbing more hills...


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## Edwardoka (9 Nov 2018)

slow scot said:


> You are so right. When the Tourmalet is mentioned at "col" parties, the Lecht just sneers into his dram.


Tourmalet is a daunting, magnificent climb and quite tough but if you can ride a bike all day long you can get up it eventually without having to get off and push.

Sure it took me significantly more than 2 hours but there was a wee old man walking his wee ancient pug in Barèges and I wasn't going to miss the opportunity to pet it.  And those cows won't get out of the road etc etc (those are my excuses and I'm sticking to them )

Col de Marie-Blanque defeated me on a separate trip. Starts off very innocuously but almost imperceptibly begins to ramp up. Last 4kms are quite cheeky, 11-14% IIRC. Could have done it on the road bike but not a loaded tourer.


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## ColinJ (9 Nov 2018)

MikeG said:


> I just put this in RidewithGPS, and the steepest part of the climb is a little over 15%. The next road along to the west, Savile Rd, tops out at 21%.


Church Lane is the only the bottom part of the climb, up to where Savile Rd joins it. The worst part of the climb is Rawtenstall Bank, above Glen View.

Church Lane, Glen View, Rawtenstall Bank together _average _15% for 1 km, but there are significant changes in gradient in places so some parts are more like 20%. Rawtenstall Bank _averages _18% for 300 metres but ramps up to that hairpin bend. It has a stretch of about 100 metres at 25% and if you tried to ride round the inside of the bend you'd discover that it was probably >= 35%! (I got cut up on that bend by a stupid driver the first time that I tried the climb and toppled off my bike, still clipped in.)


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## MichaelW2 (9 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> This may be a stupid foible of mine, but I try not to rest _at the top _of big hills. I.



On mountains I prefer to put on some windproofing or even replace a sweaty jersey on any slightly cool long descent.


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## capricapers (9 Nov 2018)

nickAKA said:


> As long as you've got a good level of cycling/cardio fitness it's 90% in your head. I can only speak from my own perspective as a fellow hater of hills when I started out... in the first couple of months of "serious" riding I'd have to stop part way on any climb over 10 minutes long with my heart rate at 170+, but once I'd built up some fitness & stamina by putting in the hard miles, I was away.
> It could be just your mindset that isn't right - it takes a special kind of masochism to _*really*_ enjoy the physical effort of riding up a 10% gradient for 20 minutes, all the pleasure is in the satisfaction of making it to the top (personally speaking). Even better if you did it quicker than the last time you did it... but don't expect it not to hurt, ever, it always hurts if you're putting in the effort!
> 
> So, as stated many times already in the thread, get in the right gear for the hill you're facing. If it's a short steep effort that you can tackle in under a minute, carry as much speed in as you can safely & try to power up it as far as you can out of the saddle. If you have to sit down & spin the pedals for the last 100 yards so be it, you'll improve the more you do it. Have a rest at the top & get your breath back, carry on satisfied that you made it.
> ...



That’s one helluver good and thorough answer, Nick. Thank you. I am in the school of ‘that-looks-a-short-uphill-let’s-go-like-stink-from-this-downhill-and-use-my-existing-speed-to-conquer-all-of-or-part-of-the-hill-in-front-‘ but that only works SOMETIMES! Thank you.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> This may be a stupid foible of mine, but I try not to rest _at the top _of big hills. I try to ride on for a few km before stopping for a rest (unless there's a super duper view that must be enjoyed). My theory is that the relatively easier post-top riding is a better recovery than stopping dead after a big effort. I will be stopped for less time and thus be on my way again more efficiently.
> 
> I'm not claiming any scientific basis for that, I doubt it does any harm, and I think when doing audaxes and the like where the overall time can be important, it maybe saves on wasted stopped time.



I have the same foible and will only stop at top if I need to wait for a riding companion to catch up. I try and accelerate as I creat a hill and keep the momentum going.


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## the stupid one (9 Nov 2018)

I am no fan of hills - the local ones are easy to avoid, and I usually do. But there's a hill on my occasional commute that I cannot avoid, which defeated me the first time and really hurt me the second. Before my third attempt I was reminded of the advice to relax ones upper body - no death grip on the bars, no rigid arms or solid shoulders - and I found it really helped. Expend the energy where it's needed.


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## Soltydog (9 Nov 2018)

Lots of advice already given. Best thing is to try the tips & see what works for you  but one thing for sure, the more you do them the easier they become/the quicker you become/you enjoy them more 
I've been seeking out some serious hills this year, which has been a bit of a challenge, as living on the East yorkshire coast, there's no real hills for about 30 miles or more, so 90+% of my riding is on the flat. Yesterday I headed out onto the Wolds for some hills, did quite a hilly ride for this area & still only managed 2800ft of climbing in 79 miles.
I've got a decent amount of riding in this year which has contributed to a 2stone weight loss, & that combined with doing more hills than usual, I no longer fear & avoid them. Only found a couple this year which have beat me, both cobbled & my front wheel was lifting of the ground & rear was bouncing around the cobbles, was only a matter of time before I fell, so opted to walk  but I'll give those climbs another go next year .

There was a link to a video in this weeks British cycling email to help build strength for climbing, not watched it yet myself, but heres the link, may be of use  https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...tish Cycling V2&dm_i=480K,ETLQ,3CJRFV,1OKY6,1


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## MikeG (9 Nov 2018)

I like hills. But in response to tso I'll say that there is one hill near here which I have never liked, despite it being less steep and less long than plenty of others. In the end I rode around and around a little circuit which included the hill, until I had done it a few dozen times in a week or so. It's now just like any other hill.........and the lesson to take away from that is that so much of this in the mind, not the legs or the white knuckles..


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## Broadside (9 Nov 2018)

This thread has tons of good advice already. The couple of bits I would add is if you are numbers based then ride to a heart rate that you know you can sustain for a while, no closer than 20bpm of max HR is what I can usually hold for a while on hills. 

Also recognise when the hill gets a little easier, keep an eye on gradient and push a bit harder when it eases off so it keeps your average for the whole hill a bit higher. 

The last bit is to always finish strong, when you see the top don’t slack off, give it a final push, maybe stand up and fly over the top, it feels much more satisfying than going over the top at a snails pace feeling half dead!!


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## ColinJ (9 Nov 2018)

Climbing definitely does get easier with practice. I used to set off too enthusiastically and run out of steam halfway up the local climbs but now I know how to pace myself. Losing weight can make a lot of difference.

I was out on a ride with @Littgull a couple of weeks ago and we rode up an offroad climb which had a reasonable surface. We'd been chatting all the way up and then encountered a woman walking her dog near the summit. She made a comment about us being brave to "_tackle a hill like that_". We had hardly even noticed the gradient! A few years ago I would have been struggling all the way up and not able to spare the breath to talk to anyone.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Nov 2018)

Most satisfying recent hill was a long 25% one done with the bike in touring mode loaded up with panniers. Not my fastest ascent of such a hill be a long way but I earnt the ascent, my lungs and heart knew it, and it felt good especially given it was wet and had leaves to catch you out.


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## nickyboy (9 Nov 2018)

nickAKA said:


> As long as you've got a good level of cycling/cardio fitness it's 90% in your head. I can only speak from my own perspective as a fellow hater of hills when I started out... in the first couple of months of "serious" riding I'd have to stop part way on any climb over 10 minutes long with my heart rate at 170+, but once I'd built up some fitness & stamina by putting in the hard miles, I was away.
> It could be just your mindset that isn't right - it takes a special kind of masochism to _*really*_ enjoy the physical effort of riding up a 10% gradient for 20 minutes, all the pleasure is in the satisfaction of making it to the top (personally speaking). Even better if you did it quicker than the last time you did it... but don't expect it not to hurt, ever, it always hurts if you're putting in the effort!
> 
> So, as stated many times already in the thread, get in the right gear for the hill you're facing. If it's a short steep effort that you can tackle in under a minute, carry as much speed in as you can safely & try to power up it as far as you can out of the saddle. If you have to sit down & spin the pedals for the last 100 yards so be it, you'll improve the more you do it. Have a rest at the top & get your breath back, carry on satisfied that you made it.
> ...



You're right about hill climbing being largely a mental issue. It hurts, it always does and it always will do (as you get fitter you just go faster). Some people give up when it hurts quicker than others. I'm not sure if you can "improve" your mental approach other than by keeping on riding up hills

Forget about weight loss. Concentrate on practicing hills which will get you fitter and work on developing a tough mental attitude to the pain of the climb. You might lose weight in doing this, you might not. Doesn't really matter much


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## 13 rider (9 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Does 32 sound about right? I marked one of the teeth when it was at 12 o’clock and when it was directly vertically underneath at 6 o’clock, I had counted 32. Hope that tells you something. ?


That's a pretty low gear which will help if you had a small cog ie a 28 tooth I may have suggested you put lower gears but a 32 sounds a nice gear to spin you up most hills . Keep at it


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## MikeG (9 Nov 2018)

nickyboy said:


> ..........Forget about weight loss. Concentrate on practicing hills which will get you fitter and work on developing a tough mental attitude to the pain of the climb. You might lose weight in doing this, you might not. Doesn't really matter much



Poor advice. It's just basic physics: the lighter you are, the easier you'll get up hills.


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## capricapers (9 Nov 2018)

the stupid one said:


> I am no fan of hills - the local ones are easy to avoid, and I usually do. But there's a hill on my occasional commute that I cannot avoid, which defeated me the first time and really hurt me the second. Before my third attempt I was reminded of the advice to relax ones upper body - no death grip on the bars, no rigid arms or solid shoulders - and I found it really helped. Expend the energy where it's needed.




Very sound advice! I hate hills so much, I probably clench the bars like grim death. Trying to convey my hatred of the hill in front


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## capricapers (9 Nov 2018)

13 rider said:


> That's a pretty low gear which will help if you had a small cog ie a 28 tooth I may have suggested you put lower gears but a 32 sounds a nice gear to spin you up most hills . Keep at it



Thank you! I think I’m just an impatient person really. It’s much easier for me to pick up speed on the straight and keep pumping those legs and to watch the Wahoo’s numbers go up - it’s a different experience (and a bit of a mental barrier) to keep whittling away at the seemingly insurmountable hill in front!


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## MikeG (9 Nov 2018)

[QUOTE 5436954, member: 9609"]stronger bigger fitter heavier legs will get you up hills quicker than a couple of match sticks........[/QUOTE]

Which is why Mark Cavendish is so much better up hills than Yates, Froome, and Thomas.


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## Ice2911 (9 Nov 2018)

Lots of good advice already. Finding the right cadence tempo helps. I use a tactic from ‘Mud,sweat and gears’ counting pedal strokes 1-10 and repeat. If it gets really steep and hard this changes to repeating the F word. Riding a fully loaded touring bike up some steep hills I sometimes use the 24 inch gear when it’s quicker to walk than spin. 
I enjoy the challenge and head out for hill repeats, especially inWinter when dark nights mean once a week we hill loops close to home, especially handy if the weather changes. 
Only other bit of advice I’ve not seen mentioned is riding with hands relaxed on top of the bars rather than hoods or drops also seems to help. I’m sure someone will have said hills always hurt, you just get faster at going up them.


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## ColinJ (9 Nov 2018)

Ice2911 said:


> I’m sure someone will have said hills always hurt, you just get faster at going up them.


It is paraphrasing the great Greg Lemond who is quoted as saying "_It never gets easier, you just get faster_". 

What he meant was that as you get fitter you can ride faster for the same amount of perceived effort and/or suffering. 

That is obviously _true _but if you decided to have a relaxing ride at the slower speed that you used to do, it _would_ feel easier! I think that is probably why I am not making the speed gains that I should with my improved fitness - I am just treating myself to less suffering. I'm sure if I flogged myself the way I used to when I weighed 17+ stone and riding up 20% climbs then I would be climbing a lot faster than I usually do!


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## Spoons47 (9 Nov 2018)

+1 for hands on the tops. I find it allows you to push arse back rotate pelvis a little and keep up the high cadence.


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## Lee_M (9 Nov 2018)

all great advice, but what do you do when you have a 32 on the back and you're grinding, and your HR is 25 above your max for your age?

yep that's me! generally fit, can do a 100miler at 16mph, but rubbish at hills, being 6'3" and 15 stone probably doesnt help, but it never seems to get any easier!


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## Spoons47 (9 Nov 2018)

Well I’m 5ft 9 and 10 st 9 but can’t do anywhere near 100 miles and don’t think I’ll ever love hills, but I love cycling and don’t feel I have to do them, so win win really


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## MikeG (10 Nov 2018)

Lee_M said:


> all great advice, but what do you do when you have a 32 on the back and you're grinding, and your HR is 25 above your max for your age?..........



You either adjust the sprocket on the back or the chainring on the front so that you aren't grinding.


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## Ice2911 (10 Nov 2018)

Lee_M said:


> all great advice, but what do you do when you have a 32 on the back and you're grinding, and your HR is 25 above your max for your age?
> 
> yep that's me! generally fit, can do a 100miler at 16mph, but rubbish at hills, being 6'3" and 15 stone probably doesnt help, but it never seems to get any easier!


That’s when I use my 24 inch gear ie my 2 feet


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## nickyboy (10 Nov 2018)

MikeG said:


> Poor advice. It's just basic physics: the lighter you are, the easier you'll get up hills.


My meaning is this...
OP Has a few pounds to lose. There will be far greater gains to be had by improving fitness and, I suspect, a tougher mental attitude than losing a few pounds
Concentrate on the areas where the greatest gains are to be had...which for all but the truly obese is fitness


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## Racing roadkill (10 Nov 2018)

nickyboy said:


> My meaning is this...
> OP Has a few pounds to lose. There will be far greater gains to be had by improving fitness and, I suspect, a tougher mental attitude than losing a few pounds
> Concentrate on the areas where the greatest gains are to be had...which for all but the truly obese is fitness


Judging by the OPs avatar, I’d say this wasn’t so.


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## ColinJ (10 Nov 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> Judging by the OPs avatar, I’d say this wasn’t so.


If you mean that she doesn't look overweight (I agree - she _doesn't!_)... I think nickboy meant that she _ONLY_ has a few pounds to lose so concentrating on fitness makes more sense.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Nov 2018)

Indeed the limits of hill climbing tend to be cardio vascular and rarely pure leg strength.


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## Lee_M (10 Nov 2018)

MikeG said:


> You either adjust the sprocket on the back or the chainring on the front so that you aren't grinding.



My bike won't take more than a 32 on the back and I cant bring myself to drop from a 34 on the front


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## ColinJ (10 Nov 2018)

Lee_M said:


> My bike won't take more than a 32 on the back and I cant bring myself to drop from a 34 on the front


There are ways ... I managed to get my CX bike to take a 36 at the back, which goes nicely with the 34 that I put on the front.


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## Ian H (10 Nov 2018)

Lee_M said:


> My bike won't take more than a 32 on the back and I cant bring myself to drop from a 34 on the front



Compacts are crap. Get a proper chainset, but with a sneaky third ring inside.


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## ColinJ (10 Nov 2018)

Ian H said:


> Compacts are crap. Get a proper chainset, but with a sneaky third ring inside.


I managed to bodge one onto my CAAD5. 







As shown, it was a 48/38/28 but when I wore the 38 out I replaced it with a 36, which is a really good ring to use with the bike's 12-30 cassette. (I can get up many climbs on the middle ring if I want to, but also go quite fast without needing to change to the big ring if I _don't_ want to.)


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## si_c (11 Nov 2018)

I'm not the lightest of people, and I live in a flat area, so for the first couple of years I was riding a bike as an adult, I found hills demoralising and hard. I lost some weight which definitely helped, but the biggest thing was just going and finding hills and riding them. I tend to look for the steepest hills in the area, even if they are relatively short, and just do repeats.

It's actually a surprisingly good tactic as if they are shorter I tend to hit them as hard as I possibly can, which means I'm toast for the second run. It taught me how to pace myself on climbs, and improved my recovery speed as well. I'm still not quick on any climbs really, but I do enjoy them a lot more and don't find them as hard or as daunting as I used to.

As others have said improving fitness, and better understanding how to pace yourself will likely result in a much better experience when going uphill. I'm not sure where you are based, but there are plenty of places in the UK you could go to which would give you a crash course in how to love hills as well as being great places to go to! 

Lastly, you could consider changing your setup to have much lower gears, I've tweaked my setup a bit lately, but last year I was running a 48/32 at the front paired with a 11-34 at the rear - even stupidly steep hills weren't too much of a problem.


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## capricapers (11 Nov 2018)

si_c said:


> I'm not the lightest of people, and I live in a flat area, so for the first couple of years I was riding a bike as an adult, I found hills demoralising and hard. I lost some weight which definitely helped, but the biggest thing was just going and finding hills and riding them. I tend to look for the steepest hills in the area, even if they are relatively short, and just do repeats.
> 
> It's actually a surprisingly good tactic as if they are shorter I tend to hit them as hard as I possibly can, which means I'm toast for the second run. It taught me how to pace myself on climbs, and improved my recovery speed as well. I'm still not quick on any climbs really, but I do enjoy them a lot more and don't find them as hard or as daunting as I used to.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for your wonderful advice. Very true and sensible - every word of it! I am glad to say I went on my first ever group ride today and I really had no problems with the hills at all. In fact, I was first in my group! I think Strava and my ambitions have a lot to answer for! Riding with real people today made me realise I am not so feeble and rubbish as I think. Yay!


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## 13 rider (11 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Thank you so much for your wonderful advice. Very true and sensible - every word of it! I am glad to say I went on my first ever group ride today and I really had no problems with the hills at all. In fact, I was first in my group! I think Strava and my ambitions have a lot to answer for! Riding with real people today made me realise I am not so feeble and rubbish as I think. Yay!


All our expert advice has turned you in to a climber already . Well done anyway  keep at it


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## nickAKA (12 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> I am in the school of ‘that-looks-a-short-uphill-let’s-go-like-stink-from-this-downhill-and-use-my-existing-speed-to-conquer-all-of-or-part-of-the-hill-in-front-‘ but that only works SOMETIMES! Thank you.



The "false crest" is the nadir of this approach  I hit one recently on an unfamiliar road; must have been 50 yards away from the perceived summit when the second crest came into view. I quickly changed into the little ring and sat in for the duration, thus minimising the chances of hurling in front of local onlookers, but it was soul destroying as I layed down the heavy watts like a pathetically weak Peter Sagan...


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## ColinJ (12 Nov 2018)

nickAKA said:


> The "false crest" is the nadir of this approach  I hit one recently on an unfamiliar road; must have been 50 yards away from the perceived summit when the second crest came into view. I quickly changed into the little ring and sat in for the duration, thus minimising the chances of hurling in front of local onlookers, but it was soul destroying as I layed down the heavy watts like a pathetically weak Peter Sagan...


The climb from Keasden south to Bowland Knotts is the worst example I know around here if you are feeling tired (and usually I would have done a very hard ride just to get there). You think you are looking up at the summit as you climb for 3 km but just as you crest that summit you realise to your horror that you are only halfway up. I couldn't believe it the first time I did it.

One look at the elevation profile should explain why that happens ...





The first half completely shields the second half from view! 

PS If your GPS can display a profile like that then you will not get caught out. Ideally, check the profiles of your route before setting out if it includes climbs that you haven't done before so you know what to expect.

Even if your GPS does NOT display profiles you could always add some waypoints on the big climbs, labelled e.g. 10%, 20%, 30% and so on to indicate your progress up them.


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## si_c (12 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> The first half completely shields the second half from view!



That doesn't look super steep, around what 6% without the flat section?


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## nickAKA (12 Nov 2018)

nickyboy said:


> You're right about hill climbing being largely a mental issue. It hurts, it always does and it always will do (as you get fitter you just go faster). Some people give up when it hurts quicker than others. I'm not sure if you can "improve" your mental approach other than by keeping on riding up hills
> 
> Forget about weight loss. Concentrate on practicing hills which will get you fitter and work on developing a tough mental attitude to the pain of the climb. You might lose weight in doing this, you might not. Doesn't really matter much



It's hard to put your finger on what it is that gets you over the top when you feel like quitting, but riding in a group can certainly help. I occasionally ride with 2 mates - one's a good few years younger than me & he's taking it all pretty seriously (training for triathlons on the quiet) and is faster & stronger than I am... Climbs for long spells out of the saddle, a bit of a machine, hates finishing behind anyone. The other lad I went to school with, he's relatively slow but fearless... never seen him quit on any climb, takes on everything, he grinds & grinds but always makes it.

Combination of riding with those two spurs me on.


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## ColinJ (12 Nov 2018)

si_c said:


> That doesn't look super steep, around what 6% without the flat section?


Around that... It isn't super-steep overall but it has some much steeper ramps and especially where you don't want them, right at the top! The main problem for me was that I had already done a lot of climbing before I even got there, I weighed about 16 stone at the time, my back was hurting, and I had paced myself to what I thought was the summit, knowing that there was a huge downhill ahead of me. And there was - only... _not yet_!


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## stalagmike (12 Nov 2018)

Watch Fabio Aru and how he gets up hills. It might not work for you but it would be fun trying to copy his style.


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## capricapers (12 Nov 2018)

13 rider said:


> All our expert advice has turned you in to a climber already . Well done anyway  keep at it



Cheers 13Rider ! You are all so helpful and motivating


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## Bonus (13 Nov 2018)

We live in the foothills of the Pyrenees. You soon have to learn to love the climbs!

Come and practice here :-)


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## Edwardoka (13 Nov 2018)

Bonus said:


> We live in the foothills of the Pyrenees. You soon have to learn to love the climbs!
> 
> Come and practice here :-)


Can confirm, some amazing roads in your part of the world. Went through there on tour a couple of years back. I clearly remember the road to Campo, absolutely no shelter from the sun until the top. Clearly not a place for Scottish people


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## davidphilips (13 Nov 2018)

Only advice i can offer is this hills dont get any easier (for me) no matter how hard i train, but i do get faster the more i do them, so just start to enjoy them and the more you enjoy them the faster you will go up them.


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## Chappy (14 Nov 2018)

Grant Fondo said:


> Whiteway in Dorset...what a lovely spot...anyone done it?
> View attachment 437672



I have done this a number of times and I really like it, you feel great when you get to the top.


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## Bonus (14 Nov 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Can confirm, some amazing roads in your part of the world. Went through there on tour a couple of years back. I clearly remember the road to Campo, absolutely no shelter from the sun until the top. Clearly not a place for Scottish people




The road between Ainsa and Campo is a great road for road-riding, clean, wide and not too busy - but yes, it faces south and catches the sun all day. The road heading north from Ainsa to France is better in summer - either early or late. Lots of shade from each side.


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## adamangler (20 Nov 2018)

I love hills. Long rides on the flat are boring and throw in a headwind and they can be much more mentally draining than hills.

The great thing about hills is very rarely do they last more than 20 mins in this country so the suffering is over fairly quickly and then you get a break as you freewheel down the other side.

Sometimes I'll climb one grinding, next one spinning, next one out of saddle or all 3 on one climb.

What I like about a good hard climb is the way you don't think about anything else but the pain and your breathing, it's like meditation on the bike just trying to hold the effort all the way up.


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## xzenonuk (21 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> I used to cycle a lot as a young girl and as a teenage tomboy, took great pleasure in beating the boys on the straight, in my single-speed, huge-wheeled Raleigh that my father bought for a tenner.
> I had a few road bikes after that and loved them too. The sensation of speed was exhilarating. Then, in the 90s, and noughties, I somehow ditched the racer and went around on a MTB. Now, in my late 40s, I bought a women’s Specialized Tarmac Disc Expert (I secretly wanted the S-Works really!) and took to road biking again. I discovered Strava (the dreaded ‘S’ word) and found, to my amazement and delight that some of my very first rides on my new road bike had segments that put me in the top 10 or 20 of all-time women. HOWEVER, even with a new and beautiful road bike, I am still crap at hills. I can get up them - even though I dread and hate them - but I can’t go fast up them and I certainly don’t enjoy them. On the hills, I don’t know where to look - do I look at the horizon or down at the floor and pretend the ground is flat? I feel a bit of a cheat and a rubbish cyclist if all my achievements and strengths are sprinting or on sharp/severe or even very gentle descents. I can go on moderately long rides (60 miles) on my own, averaging 16mph or more and I am not afraid to plummet down hills at 40mph but my average mph falls to 14.5 overall when hills (inclines) are factored in. Sometimes I climb at a ridiculous 5mph. Is this largely a physical or a mental thing? I am 5ft4’ and have a typically athletic and muscular frame. I have never been skinny. In an ideal world, I would lose 8lb (and be 9 stone) but despite playing a lot of sport (netball, badminton, tennis, yoga) I can’t shift the 8lb.
> Sooo, how can I get better at hills? Is it
> A) learn to love them (mind over matter)
> ...




i hate hills but unfortunatley for me there are loads and some are pretty steep around here and im a fat ass and i encounter them on the way back after cycling 30-40 miles and knackered.

all i can say is keep at them and get used to them, your stamina will soon increase and the hills will get a lot easier, don't be afraid to lower your gearing to the lowest you can and try and keep a steady cadence even if you only do a few mph as long as you stay on the bike tilll the very top you win 

when im knackered and climbing a steep long hill i find that thinking about other things and ignoring my burning legs makes the climb feel faster by a fair bit but if i just think this sucks my legs are burning etc wheres the top of this hill it feels like it takes ages.

oh im always taking hills in the saddle it is very rare for me to stand up on my bikes


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## delb0y (21 Nov 2018)

Wish I could get up hills at 5 mph ! The last one I went up there was a horse and rider in front of me, and a lady rambler behind me, and we all maintained the same speed... which was a lot lower than 5 mph.

Can't say I like hills, but I dislike not getting up them, so this year I have been actively seeking out the steep ones round these parts. I'm an in-saddle spinner, and with mountain-bike gearing have found I can get up most things, but I still find when things get really steep (20%+) I have to take each pedal stroke at a time and ask myself "Is it hurting too much yet?" and "Can I turn the pedals again?". So long as the answers are no and yes I make another turn of the pedals.

Derek


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## nickAKA (21 Nov 2018)

delb0y said:


> I have to take each pedal stroke at a time and ask myself "Is it hurting too much yet?" and "Can I turn the pedals again?". So long as the answers are no and yes I make another turn of the pedals.
> 
> Derek


My threshold on the really steep stuff is "am I about to fall off?"


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## ColinJ (21 Nov 2018)

nickAKA said:


> My threshold on the really steep stuff is "am I about to fall off?"


I think 'steep' is when there is a difficult choice to make between leaning forward to stop the front end lifting off the road, and leaning back to stop the rear wheel slipping! It is usually possible to manage it on a clean and dry steep road, but it can be very tricky on a dusty and/or wet one.


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## si_c (21 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> I think 'steep' is when there is a difficult choice to make between leaning forward to stop the front end lifting off the road, and leaning back to stop the rear wheel slipping! It is usually possible to manage it on a clean and dry steep road, but it can be very tricky on a dusty and/or wet one.



The steepest climb i've done it was slightly wet, and I was having to constantly shift my weight forwards and backwards alternately to stop the wheel slipping or lifting off. A tad sketchy.


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## si_c (21 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> There's a hideous short steep climb on one of my regular rides. It's only about 15m long, but it's a sharp left shortly after a downhill section. The surface is hideous and broken up, and this time of year it's covered with leaves. If you come down the downhill, forget to change right down, hoping to use your momentum then you're going to be walking. I was quite proud of myself getting everything right this weekend. I often don't. It's Here


Just taken a look at that on streetview, if it's the left turn up the main road, then it looks pretty miserable.


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## si_c (21 Nov 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> THat's the one. Get it wrong and you tend to fall off the back of the bike or grind to an undignified halt. It's only short but it's really tricky


Yeah looks like if you judge it badly then you're going to either fall off on that last little steep bit or slide off unceremoniously on the muddy wet bit at the bottom. Streetview has it covered in wet mud and leaves so I can well imagine it's quite treacherous, definitely not one to come across for the first time in the dark.


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## capricapers (22 Nov 2018)

nickAKA said:


> My threshold on the really steep stuff is "am I about to fall off?"



Haha! Mine too!


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## ColinJ (22 Nov 2018)

capricapers said:


> Haha! Mine too!


So ... have you started loving those pesky hills yet?


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## capricapers (22 Nov 2018)

ColinJ said:


> So ... have you started loving those pesky hills yet?


 
Amazingly - yes! Did a ride that I thought was nothing special on Monday and Strava told me I had climbed 2500ft and the thing is, I didn’t notice it at all! The only problems and wobbly bits occur when I see a long and high hill up in front of me and I think, ‘Sheesh! Not sure I can do that!’ But if I don’t look up at the crest of the hill, I am normally OK. And my speed (climbing up hills) is improving! Yay!


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## Supersuperleeds (22 Nov 2018)

I love avoiding hills


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## BrumJim (25 Jan 2019)

capricapers said:


> Thank you so much for your wonderful advice. Very true and sensible - every word of it! I am glad to say I went on my first ever group ride today and I really had no problems with the hills at all. In fact, I was first in my group! I think Strava and my ambitions have a lot to answer for! Riding with real people today made me realise I am not so feeble and rubbish as I think. Yay!



I was going to tell you to ride with fatter, less fit people, and then you will realize how fast you are up hills.

I am my own worst enemy going up gradients. I think I should be travelling a lot faster than I am, but when I ride with others, I realize that I am super-quick up those slopes. Remember most Stava KOM segments (well, the ones I bag) are done by people taking advantage of a storming tail wind, warmed-up legs, and a bit of recovery beforehand. I can't get even close to my PBs for my regular routes on a still day.

If you do Netball, then your legs will be nice and explosive with fast-twitch fibres, not really suitable for long-distance cycling requiring the slow-twitch stuff. I noted a bit difference in my ski-boots after I had been doing regular football games, compared with just cycling - leg muscles noticeably bigger. However it doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't cycle with explosive legs; the fitness gained from sports will help you whatever you decide to concentrate on.

Well, that's the end of my useless advice that you know already. Enjoy cycling!


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## RegG (20 Feb 2019)

I have an aversion to hills but do try to include at least one on a ride..... I surprised myself the other day, went up a fairly steep albeit shortish hill (about 10% max) and, as in the past, ended up walking the steepest bit. When I looked at Strava later I had achieved a PR on that hill!


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## CXRAndy (20 Feb 2019)

Goto to Tenerife for a weeks tour. Then any hill in the UK is just a pimple  . Riding up an incline for 2-3 hours, gives you a different perspective


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Feb 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Goto to Tenerife for a weeks tour. Then any hill in the UK is just a pimple  . Riding up an incline for 2-3 hours, gives you a different perspective



How does the 2-3 hours compare to what you get in 
Tenerife?


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## Cuchilo (20 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> How does the 2-3 hours compare to what you get in
> Tenerife?


You get to tell people you've been to a training camp rather than telling them you drag your arse out of bed at 6 am and hit the same hill 15 times in the pissing rain before you start work .


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## CXRAndy (21 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> How does the 2-3 hours compare to what you get in
> Tenerife?



I'll tell next month when I return


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## CXRAndy (21 Feb 2019)

Cuchilo said:


> You get to tell people you've been to a training camp rather than telling them you drag your arse out of bed at 6 am and hit the same hill 15 times in the pissing rain before you start work .



I know what I'd rather be doing


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## Lavender Rose (21 Feb 2019)

I have found a technique that works for my running and cycling. I usually try and break the hill into thirds.

Obviously, all hills vary in terms of gradient and length, but I seem to have found a good method below:

First third you go slow and steady, I often count 1,2,1,2 and match it with breathing.
2nd third - try to build up the pace, if you have regulated well in the first third, this should come easier.
Final third - build pace further, *remembering to keep counting all the way through.*
Having built up the pace, I have found it easier to then go over the crest of the hill and keep going.

In essence, its all about the approach, mentally and physically to hills. There are so many factors including personal fitness levels, gradient and length of the hill. *However, I can guarantee* *the way you battle the first sector of the hill generally depicts how the rest of it will go!* 

Some hills I have such a negative attitude towards, but recently I have tried to ditch it and just think of my above method....the result? I have got up the hills, no stopping half way or at the top...! 

YOU CAN DO IT!


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## Javabob (4 Mar 2019)

At the weekend I decided to tackle some big hills around Lyme Regis (14/15%)1500ft of climbing in 28miles. ABSOLUTELY hated it at the time, but I learned what works for me, spinning & sat down for those that want to know. The swearing as I creasted each one helped, as did not puking! looking back now it’s with a sense of pride as I only got back into serious riding before Christmas. Now planning next training ride around home, looking to do several hills repeatedly & not go for just distance.
I’m using the advice in this thread to approach hills without a feeling of dread


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## colly (4 Mar 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I just found this video taken from a wobbly rear-facing camera on an ascent of Mytholm Steeps. Either the rider was very fit, or riding an e-bike!
> 
> The first part of the climb is so brutal that the second half feels easy in comparison but you can see that it keeps going up for a considerable distance.



That cant be far from you Colin
Have you ever been up there on any of your forum rides?


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## rogerzilla (4 Mar 2019)

I know this is an ancient thread but...

Start climbing slower than you think you should be going. If you feel a bit guilty, as if you're soft-pedalling, this is right. Halfway up the hill, you'll start to pass all those who started climbing at the fastest speed they thought they could sustain, blew up, and had to throttle right back.

Gearing is not that important on an unloaded bike. It takes the same amount of time and hurts about as much whatever gear you choose. On a loaded touring bike you do need lower gears to winch yourself along.

Try a fixed gear if you can. They climb like a rat up a drainpipe. It's not just the low weight, it's the fact that they turn the cranks for you. All you need to do is push and pull.


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## ColinJ (4 Mar 2019)

colly said:


> That cant be far from you Colin
> Have you ever been up there on any of your forum rides?


It starts at Church Lane, about 0.5 km out of Hebden Bridge town centre towards Todmorden, on the right. It comes into Blackshaw Head along Badger Lane.

I toyed with doing it on a forum ride but we used to start from Hebden Bridge and it is a bit brutal without a warm-up! I suggested it a couple of times at the end of a ride, but nobody seemed keen for some reason ... 

I might see if anybody fancies a ride with a selection of such tough local climbs included. There used to be an Audax ride called the Hebden Bridge Star which did that, but I don't think it is run any more. (I reckon it killed off all those mad enough to tackle it! ) I thought it was an interesting event but I was not keen on how it joined the climbs up. (There was a lot of u-turning at summits and going back the way you came.) If I organised something similar then I would try not to ride roads in both directions, and keep off main roads as much as possible. It would be interesting to see what I could come up with. It would be 100-110 km in length with 2,000 - 2,500 metres of ascent, including a lot at 15+%.


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