# Are they all like this?



## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

Yesterday I went on a bit of a jaunt on my bicycle. Yes I was riding a bike. I've only lived here about 3 weeks, so decided to explore. Turns out Oxfordshire does have some hills, they're just 20 miles away from where I live.

Anyway, whilst poodling along, on my way to Didcot from Wallingford, I see, what can only be described as a group of 20+ cyclists riding in a very close knit peloton. 4-5 wide at points, all cruising along at not much more than 10-12mph mimicking the groups you see on the tour's.

I gazed over in amazement actually. Wondering how anyone could be that ignorant and not even pass a thought for the 6-7 cars who were unable to pass because of the bulk and the nature of the road. Baring in mind this was around 0745, I can understand that the roads were quiet and the chaps had more of an opportunity to block the road and practice their group riding skills. However, the motorists were probably trying to get to work. Retail I'd imagine, on a Saturday. You must spare a thought?!

I had to wonder to myself, is this normal practice? I was considering joining a cycling club whilst I'm here, but to be quite frank, it's embarrassing to watch as a cyclist passing by and I'd never want to be caught up riding like that.

I'm sure it's perfectly legal, I'm sure that many will say that the motorist is the devil and an 4 wide peloton is the only way to ride to stay safe, but Christ. Can't we all use the road with some empathy for people who may not want to sit behind cyclists at 12mph on a national speed limited road for 25 minutes. Not to mention the dangers if a cyclist at the front went down, the carnage that would ensue would be horrendous.


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## bonsaibilly (20 Sep 2015)

My guess is they thought they owned the road, as so many cycling groups do. Always surprises me that cyclists seem unable to realise that we are mainly much, much slower than cars. Why we don't single file it so they can pass is beyond me. Last thing I want is to feel and hear cars building up behind me.
BB


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## Globalti (20 Sep 2015)

....and if any motorist dares to make an issue of it, they will receive a torrent of abuse and even threats. 

It's the reason why I don't ride with a club.


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## summerdays (20 Sep 2015)

Or they wanted to make it easier and safer for cars to pass, when safe?


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## CopperCyclist (20 Sep 2015)

Were they blocking the whole road, or just their lane? 

I don't ride in groups, am not a member of any club... But as a driver I much prefer overtaking a group of cyclists "clumped up" as then it's more similar to overtaking a single slow moving vehicle like a tractor. A load of cyclists on single file is like overtaking a long vehicle such as an artic, which is much harder. 

I don't come across groups of cyclists that often around here, but when I do, probably 9 in 10 of them split into single file, and I'd rather they didn't! 

If they were blocking the whole road though, then yes, it would have been more courteous to split into single file, or even stop to let people through. Not necessary or required of course, but nice.


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## Stu Smith (20 Sep 2015)

Globalti said:


> ....and if any motorist dares to make an issue of it, they will receive a torrent of abuse and even threats.
> 
> It's the reason why I don't ride with a club.


 
Surely not all clubs advocate such group riding etiqutte?


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> what can only be described as a group of 20+ cyclists
> 
> [...] 4-5 wide at points
> 
> [...] an 8 wide peloton



It would help if you didn't appear to be talking cobblers.


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## dave r (20 Sep 2015)

Sounds like they were taking the p***, I used to do club rides, it was normally two abreast and the the tail end charlie had the job of telling the others when cars were behind us and we made the effort to get cars passed us when safe.


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## sidevalve (20 Sep 2015)

summerdays said:


> Or they wanted to make it easier and safer for cars to pass, when safe?


Really ?
Ignorance and arrogance is just the same on two wheels and on four. It gives fuel to the anti cyclist brigade, p----s of perfectly reasonable drivers who would usually be quite thoughtful [nobody wants to be late for work] and as above any motorist trying to get past would face a whole load of verbal. Crap riding is crap riding - it's time we stopped finding excuses for it.


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

sidevalve said:


> It gives fuel to the anti cyclist brigade




Of which you appear to be spokesperson.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

theclaud said:


> It would help if you didn't appear to be talking cobblers.


Seriously? It was an elaboration of words to get the point across. Don't be a pedantic twat.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

[QUOTE 3913829, member: 9609"]i seen some the other week, taking up the whole road they were, could of been fifty cars behind this lot.




[/QUOTE]
If you were to discount the LHS huddle on this photo, you wouldn't be far off from what I saw. Bar the FKW's... Actually, they probably were FKW's.


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## youngoldbloke (20 Sep 2015)

Are you sure they were 4-5 abreast? In the past our club has received quite unfounded complaints that we were doing this on leisure rides, when we were riding quite legally 2 abreast. Unless the group is riding very closely and tidily behind one another it is easy to see the bunch as being all across the road, although only 2 abreast, especially viewing from an angle as you would be if approaching the group on the opposite side of the road for example


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## summerdays (20 Sep 2015)

sidevalve said:


> Really ?
> Ignorance and arrogance is just the same on two wheels and on four. It gives fuel to the anti cyclist brigade, p----s of perfectly reasonable drivers who would usually be quite thoughtful [nobody wants to be late for work] and as above any motorist trying to get past would face a whole load of verbal. Crap riding is crap riding - it's time we stopped finding excuses for it.


Have you ever cycled with a group in a line watched a car come towards you as one is trying to pass? It isn't a nice feeling! If they are bunched so that they become car shaped they become much easier to pass, when safe.

Out of interest in that situation where would you pull in?


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Seriously? It was an elaboration of words to get the point across. Don't be a pedantic twat.



Your account of what you saw simply isn't credible. It's standard knee-jerk stuff from someone who has clearly internalized the widespread resentment of groups of cyclists daring to use roads that motorists erroneously regard as theirs.


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## Bollo (20 Sep 2015)

If a club ride was going at 12mph, they don't need to practice their group skills, they need to practice their going-a bit-quicker skills.

Anyway, the whole story sounds like guff to me.


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## Origamist (20 Sep 2015)

sidevalve said:


> Really ?
> *Ignorance and arrogance is just the same on two wheels and on four*. It gives fuel to the anti cyclist brigade, p----s of perfectly reasonable drivers who would usually be quite thoughtful [nobody wants to be late for work] and as above any motorist trying to get past would face a whole load of verbal. Crap riding is crap riding - it's time we stopped finding excuses for it.



With the crucial exception that the consequences of ignorance and arrogance are vastly different depending on whether you're riding a bicycle or a driving a motor vehicle.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

theclaud said:


> Your account of what you saw simply isn't credible. It's standard knee-jerk stuff from someone who has clearly internalized the widespread resentment of groups of cyclists daring to use roads that motorists erroneously regard as theirs.


If you have nothing else credible to say, please politely fark off.

You weren't there, you did not see it, you are clearly tied up within the anti motorist brigade and bare no empathy for people who want to go about their day to day business.

I don't need to justify myself to you, for use of poor calculations. It was simply use of elaborate numbers to highlight the problem I saw. Numerous cyclists I passed managed to cycle respectfully, but not these guys. 

So, good bye.


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

Flounce-tastic! Often happens when people are caught out bullsh*tting.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

youngoldbloke said:


> Are you sure they were 4-5 abreast? In the past our club has received quite unfounded complaints that we were doing this on leisure rides, when we were riding quite legally 2 abreast. Unless the group is riding very closely and tidily behind one another it is easy to see the bunch as being all across the road, although only 2 abreast, especially viewing from an angle as you would be if approaching the group on the opposite side of the road for example


This was the reason for the post. Most groups I see, are riding 2 abreast, they move over to create a train. 

Genuinely can't believe how much flak I've taken for noting something that seemed abnormal!


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

theclaud said:


> Flounce-tastic! Often happens when people are caught out bullsh*tting.


Most definitely not. I'll pop out next Saturday and grab you a snap shall I?


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## Andrew_P (20 Sep 2015)

Well that escalated quickly..


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

Andrew_P said:


> Well that escalated quickly..


I'll make sure I don't make remarks for other cyclists bad habits in the future.


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Most definitely not. I'll pop out next Saturday and grab you a snap shall I?


If you feel that will help, please do.


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## buggi (20 Sep 2015)

20+ all in single file. How long do you think that would stretch for? Don't you think that would be much harder to overtake? And more dangerous? If they were only blocking their own lane then they were doing exactly the right thing. It's a speed limit not a target and had they been a tractor would you even question it?


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

buggi said:


> 20+ all in single file. How long do you think that would stretch for? Don't you think that would be much harder to overtake? And more dangerous? If they were only blocking their own lane then they were doing exactly the right thing. It's a speed limit not a target and had they been a tractor would you even question it?


Nope. You're right. Can imagine a tractor would keep a higher speed though. Justsayin'


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## theclaud (20 Sep 2015)

[QUOTE 3913872, member: 9609"]Looking at my picture above it does look very feasible to have 8 wide in one lane, and although I am 95% on the side of the cyclist - some do take the piss[/QUOTE]
Sorry - I thought your pic was a gag. Or did the OP witness some strange new hybrid pro-bimbling?


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## buggi (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Nope. You're right. Can imagine a tractor would keep a higher speed though. Justsayin'


Not necessarily. It depends on the type and what its pulling. The bottom line is, if there was a lane to overtake then that's ok. If they were taking up the other lane then it's not. Being in a group is far safer for them than being in single file, unless you want them to compromise their safety for the convenience of a motorist? 

Perhaps even the reason the cars weren't overtaking was because you were coming? By being there, surely you are part of the problem. And surely, had they been in single file, you would not have been too happy if a driver had squeezed between you and them if he overtook them (most likely at speed to get past 20+ cyclists) so maybe, in the end, they did you a favour?


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## Origamist (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> I'll make sure I don't make remarks for other cyclists bad habits in the future.



Thousands of posts on CycleChat criticise cyclists. It was the hyperbole that meant many people would call BS on your OP.


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## EltonFrog (20 Sep 2015)

I didn't see this particular group, however I do live near Didcot & Wallingford, and there is a group of "mature" cyclists I've seen riding the roads here that do seem to have a " riding style" of their own. They often meet up at the Root One cafe on the Wallingford road. I wonder if it's them?

I also wonder if we could keep the unpleasantness off the posts?


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

buggi said:


> Not necessarily. It depends on the type and what its pulling. The bottom line is, if there was a lane to overtake then that's ok. If they were taking up the other lane then it's not. Being in a group is far safer for them than being in single file, unless you want them to compromise their safety for the convenience of a motorist?
> 
> Perhaps even the reason the cars weren't overtaking was because you were coming? By being there, surely you are part of the problem. And surely, had they been in single file, you would not have been too happy if a driver had squeezed between you and them if he overtook them (most likely at speed to get past 20+ cyclists) so maybe, in the end, they did you a favour?


Nice. You're probably right, but as the comment above mine has said, they really were riding like idiots. I don't post up every time someone nearly hits me with a car and quite honestly, it takes quite a lot to surprise me. But these guys were taking the piss.


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

@Crandoggler @theclaud @Bollo @summerdays et al.... please could we steady the Buffs a little here?
As a cyclist in the same locale as the OP, I have a sneaking suspicion that his observations might be correct, day, time and location are strong circumstantial evidence.

Might I ask what colour/club kit was being worn?

Crandoggler, please don't tar all clubs with the same brush, there are a growing number of non race style clubs growing. That doesn't mean that rides cannot be fast, but it means the whole club and riding ethos is different. If I might make a pitch for 'Abingdon Freewheeling' as the alternative to cycling clubs. We offer social riding for a wide range of abilities from about 15 to 20 mile 'Mellow' rides to fast as you like. Yes we wear lycra most of the time, yes we have people that go fast and do 'training rides' and pacelines, but the majority just want a fun ride out with people of their own abilities laden with coffee and cake.

http://groupspaces.com/AbingdonFreewheeling/

https://www.facebook.com/abingdonfreewheeling


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

CarlP said:


> I didn't see this particular group, however I do live near Didcot & Wallingford, and there is a group of "mature" cyclists I've seen riding the roads here that do seem to have a " riding style" of their own. They often meet up at the Root One cafe on the Wallingford road. I wonder if it's them?
> 
> I also wonder if we could keep the unpleasantness off the post?


Hear hear.

You have pm.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> @Crandoggler @theclaud @Bollo @summerdays et al.... please could we steady the Buffs a little here?
> As a cyclist in the same locale as the OP, I have a sneaking suspicion that his observations might be correct, day, time and location are strong circumstantial evidence.
> 
> Might I ask what colour/club kit was being worn?
> ...


This sounds more like it for me!

As for club kit, it was ridiculously foggy yesterday, to be honest, I was doing ~20mph and my eyes were streaming. So not a clue. Dark, I know that.


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## Ian H (20 Sep 2015)

I saw a car being driven quite badly the other day. I wonder if they're all like that?


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## Bollo (20 Sep 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> @Crandoggler @theclaud @Bollo @summerdays et al.... please could we steady the Buffs a little here?
> As a cyclist in the same locale as the OP, I have a sneaking suspicion that his observations might be correct, day, time and location are strong circumstantial evidence.
> 
> Might I ask what colour/club kit was being worn?
> ...


I was you, wasn't it?


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

Bollo said:


> I was you, wasn't it?


nah, 12mph is a bit quick for me .....


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> This sounds more like it for me!
> 
> As for club kit, it was ridiculously foggy yesterday, to be honest, I was doing ~20mph and my eyes were streaming. So not a clue. Dark, I know that.


You're miost welcome ... we even do MTB as well.
Let me know if you want more info about Sunday rides and weekday evening rides .... Thursday evenings at 0630pm is the main event with free chip butties afterwards .... the beer you need to pay for :-)


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## earlestownflya (20 Sep 2015)

a tractor is a different entity,it's a working


Crandoggler said:


> Nope. You're right. Can imagine a tractor would keep a higher speed though. Justsayin'


a tractor is a different entity,it's a working vehicle ,a solid unit,if you block a entire lane with bicycles knowing you're holding up vehicles when you could easily narrow the group to assist vehicles to pass is just ignorant.On the other hand,cycling this way will ensure vehicles can only pass you when it is truly safe.at the end of the day we're all at the mercy of motorists.it's not a good idea not anger them unnecessarily ,it's just basic road etiquette.


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## dave r (20 Sep 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> @Crandoggler @theclaud @Bollo @summerdays et al.... please could we steady the Buffs a little here?
> As a cyclist in the same locale as the OP, I have a sneaking suspicion that his observations might be correct, day, time and location are strong circumstantial evidence.
> 
> Might I ask what colour/club kit was being worn?
> ...



Your club sounds lovely, its a shame its too far away


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## Bollo (20 Sep 2015)

My particular issue with this thread is twofold and both point have already been made. First, the whole description of the incident is inconsistent and hysterical, like a Daily Mail article on migrants smuggled in by hiding in halal pizza.

Second, I'm really really tired of being my brother's keeper. If a group of people choose to ride like that, I can do feck all about it. They to not represent me, and I do not represent them. If others choose to make that link, then its more to do with out-group thinking (linked many times on CC here) than the actual behaviour one group of cyclists in one particular incident. We're all guilty of this to some extent (it's literally human nature), but I'm often surprised how common it is for cyclists to view other cyclists as an out-group.

Putting all the name calling aside for a moment @Crandoggler, I think you'd find it an interesting read.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> This sounds more like it for me!
> 
> As for club kit, it was ridiculously foggy yesterday, to be honest, I was doing ~20mph and my eyes were streaming. So not a clue. Dark, I know that.



You were held up behind cyclists for nearly half an hour and you didn't notice their colours?


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## Accy cyclist (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Seriously? It was an elaboration of words to get the point across. Don't be a pedantic twat.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

They were doing 12 mph, you were going at 20, you said. Either you were going in the same direction and you think any cyclist in your way is "blocking" the road, or you were driving in the opposite direction in which case you have no idea how long they delayed the following vehicle and you pulled your twenty five minute claim out of thin air.


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## Drago (20 Sep 2015)

Unfortunately we get a lot round here like that. Even solo they wobble blithely all over the place cos they've spent all winter on the rollers so any bike control skills or road craft they did have has long since evaporated through lack of practice. Part of the reason I shy away from the club scene, and either ride with my chums (some of whom are also instructors or trainers) or occasionally the old duffers section of the local CTC.


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

dave r said:


> Your club sounds lovely, its a shame its too far away


It exists because we started a club in our own image .... amiables that like riding bikes. These days it's pretty easy to start such a group what with fb and all that. If you build it they will come. There will be many in your locale looking for the same thing.
Do it!


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## Markymark (20 Sep 2015)

I do sympathise. I was going shopping then meeting my mum for lunch. I got held up by cyclists in a group for aroubd 2 miles. If made me 38seconds late. My mum was furious. It threw the whole day out. First I was late for the shops which made no difference. Then my mum had to wait 38 seconds as I must shop for exactly 19.58 minutes and could not cut it short. Then after lunch I was 10 minutes late because I then spent 9 minutes and 22 seconds bitching about cyvlist's and posting on forums. 

Honestly, 10 minutes late and 38 seconds of that was due to inconsiderate cyclists. 

I will petition to have cyclists banned from the roads as its simply ridiculous to expect me to leave 38seconds earlier. Until they do I will have to , HAVE TO MIND, break the speed limit to catch up. If I end up killing someone my conscience is clear but I bet these Lycra louts will just laugh.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

Apologies. I was riding the other way. 

For the benefit of 100% factual evidence, the gross number of 8 has been retracted and replaced with 4.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

So if you were going the other way, where did the twenty five minute delay come from? You're having a go at cyclists for Future Crime?


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

Done with this forum. Really am.

I've over excited what has/could have happened for the benefit of the reader. It wasn't supposed to be factual, just a summary to indicate that they should at least have made an effort to let the cars through that had no chance to over take due to the road and the peloton holding them up, and the potential dangers of falling whilst in a large group spread across the road. That was all.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

User said:


> Why not? If it was bad enough to moan about it was bad enough without the embellishment


Would it make you feel better if I deleted the last paragraph?


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

You might as well have a go at cyclists for carrying out armed robberies and shouting sexual swear words at ginger orphans, you've got as much evidence of those crimes as you have for your "25 minute delay" load of old trousers.


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## Markymark (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Done with this forum. Really am.
> 
> I've over excited what has/could have happened for the benefit of the reader. It wasn't supposed to be factual, just a summary to indicate that they should at least have made an effort to let the cars through that had no chance to over take due to the road and the peloton holding them up, and the potential dangers of falling whilst in a large group spread across the road. That was all.


Double flounce in one thread. Impressive.


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## Mugshot (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Done with this forum. Really am..


No need to disappear @Crandoggler but there's no need to embellish things like this either.
There are people that ride like idiots when in groups, I've seen it myself and despite what others may try to suggest the fact is that as a group cyclists do tend to be lumped together as a single entity, so when one acts like a tosser it means that we all act like tossers. Your OP does exhibit much of this lumping together mentality though, right down to the made up waiting times and number of cyclists there were, I'm assuming that you were making the average speed up too?
In fact if cyclists are riding in a manner which takes the whole lane it actually makes things easier and safer for the overtake for both the motorists and the cyclists, it just needs people to actually stop and think about it for a second, unfortunately it's often easier just to knee jerk and rant.


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## Tim Hall (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Apologies. I was riding the other way.
> 
> For the benefit of 100% factual evidence, the gross number of 8 has been retracted and replaced with 4.


I think you'll find 144 is a gross number, not 8.


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## Hip Priest (20 Sep 2015)

I cycle extensively. The absolute maximum I've ever seen is 3 abreast. And even that is abnormal.


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## Stu Smith (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Done with this forum. Really am.
> 
> I've over excited what has/could have happened for the benefit of the reader. It wasn't supposed to be factual, just a summary to indicate that they should at least have made an effort to let the cars through that had no chance to over take due to the road and the peloton holding them up, and the potential dangers of falling whilst in a large group spread across the road. That was all.


 
Don't rise to the bullying thats all it is..Who in all honesty as never exaggerated on anything..


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

Cyclists have a right to claim the lane
It may come as a surprise to most drivers but cyclists have as much right as drivers to take up the entire lane. You will often see cyclists riding side-by-side, and you, as a driver, may think they’re being selfish by doing so. But the fact is the cyclist is actually reducing the risk of having an accident; it’s the safest way for them to cycle, particularly if there’s a blind bend, a narrowing of the road, a high risk junction, pinch point or traffic lights ahead.

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Safety-advice/Road-Safety/Cyclists.aspx

Scary that there are drivers who don't know the law or anything about safe cycling.


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## Drago (20 Sep 2015)

They may have a right, but that doesn't make it sensible or safe. That's the sort of approach that sees riders stretchered away, bones sticking out their skin, shouting "but it was MY right of way!"

Having a "right" means jack when it comes to life expectancy on the road.


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## Tin Pot (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> Done with this forum. Really am.
> 
> I've over excited what has/could have happened for the benefit of the reader. It wasn't supposed to be factual, just a summary to indicate that they should at least have made an effort to let the cars through that had no chance to over take due to the road and the peloton holding them up, and the potential dangers of falling whilst in a large group spread across the road. That was all.



It's pretty much impossible to discuss cyclist behaviour on the road here unless you have carefully constructed a robust argument, with evidence and braced yourself for the onslaught. There is a lot of emotion here.

It is entirely possible that the cyclists were legitimately using the road and that your perception of good behaviour is incorrect. Or, they were being inconsiderate as you say. Who knows eh?

Try starting a thread on wearing/not wearing helmets instead, it's much more civilised.


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## Markymark (20 Sep 2015)

Drago said:


> They may have a right, but that doesn't make it sensible or safe. That's the sort of approach that sees riders stretchered away, bones sticking out their skin, shouting "but it was MY right of way!"
> 
> Having a "right" means jack when it comes to life expectancy on the road.


Yes but exercising your right if it makes it safer, by preventing bad overtakes, is worth it, even if some drivers are slowed by a few seconds. 

My safety trumps your convenience.


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## Tin Pot (20 Sep 2015)

In my area on-street parking causes more near passes and inconvenience than anything, whether I'm cycling or driving.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

The cyclists were riding entirely correctly, according to police advice. If someone falls of a bike at 12 mph carnage will not ensue, that's hysterical nonsense, like the 25 minute claim which appears to be made up.


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## sidevalve (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> This was the reason for the post. Most groups I see, are riding 2 abreast, they move over to create a train.
> 
> Genuinely can't believe how much flak I've taken for noting something that seemed abnormal!


Don't be surprised - apparently I am the spokesperson for the anti cycling brigade for daring to agree and simply saying bad riding is bad riding. If you saw what you saw [and I have no reason to call you a liar [like some seem to want to do] then it is good propaganda for the anti cyclist mob end of story which is all I said. I now back away from this apparently poison thread and leave it to the 'cyclists and whatever they do is perfect and everybody else is either the Antichrist [or whatever god you do or do not worship] and or stupid brigade.
Bye bye


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## Mugshot (20 Sep 2015)

glenn forger said:


> The cyclists were riding entirely correctly, according to police advice. If someone falls of a bike at 12 mph carnage will not ensue, that's hysterical nonsense, like the 25 minute claim which appears to be made up.


Wind your neck in Glenn, you're a forum god when it comes to slinging a load of old cobblers into a post.


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## Tin Pot (20 Sep 2015)

I often wonder what a CC pub meet would be like.

"Bring weapons." Probably.


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## Andrew_P (20 Sep 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I often wonder what a CC pub meet would be like.
> 
> "Bring weapons." Probably.


The pen is mightier than the sword, especially when wielded by hunting packs. It like watching a death by a thousand cuts on here at times.


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## xxDarkRiderxx (20 Sep 2015)

I ride with a club and max is two abreast, and then single file to allow cars to pass. I would have thought this would be standard practice. I suppose life is like a box of chocolate and you never know what your going to get. I hate chocolate by the way.


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## Sim2003 (20 Sep 2015)

dave r said:


> Your club sounds lovely, its a shame its too far away


@dave r 
Im pretty local to you Dave, I head out regularly on a Tuesday with a few others that join me. Feel free to tag along. Usually do a 20-40+ mile ride , Going to Kingsbury this Tuesday. I am not fast though  12mph avg if im lucky on those rides.


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

Sim2003 said:


> @dave r
> Im pretty local to you Dave, I head out regularly on a Tuesday with a few others that join me. Feel free to tag along. Usually do a 20-40+ mile ride , Going to Kingsbury this Tuesday. I am not fast though  12mph avg if im lucky on those rides.


... the birth of a new Freewheeling club?


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2015)

xxDarkRiderxx said:


> I ride with a club and max is two abreast, and then single file to allow cars to pass. I would have thought this would be standard practice. I suppose life is like a box of chocolate and you never know what your going to get. I hate chocolate by the way.


Single file is not always the best way to let cars pass and is not standard practice either ... but I think this has been covered - with diagrams!


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## Sim2003 (20 Sep 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> ... the birth of a new Freewheeling club?


I dont have a free wheeler  Fat lad on a touring bike here. Have a few others join me, just a odd ball group but it seems to be good fun.


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## Sim2003 (20 Sep 2015)

Fab Foodie said:


> Single file is not always the best way to let cars pass and is not standard practice either ... but I think this has been covered - with diagrams!



Sometime just a bit of common sense is needed , Different roads means different judgement.


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## SpokeyDokey (20 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> *Done with this forum.* Really am.
> 
> I've over excited what has/could have happened for the benefit of the reader. It wasn't supposed to be factual, just a summary to indicate that they should at least have made an effort to let the cars through that had no chance to over take due to the road and the peloton holding them up, and the potential dangers of falling whilst in a large group spread across the road. That was all.



@Crandoggler 

Don't be daft - it's only a forum.

I experienced something similar to your OP on the Windermere approach to the Kirkstone Pass a couple of weeks back. Ignorant road users is the best way I can describe the cyclists involved. You have my sympathies.

Don't worry about some of the vociferous anti-motorist types on here. They are quite intelligent, jolly smart at arguing in a blinkered sort of way and enjoy the sport of baiting people who disagree with their world view, Best to ignore them really. NB: it really could've been worse eg if the cyclists had been female and you'd dared to mention their gender. Jeez - that would've sparked a real melt down.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

Dirk Diggler claimed that cyclists riding away from him at a total speed of 30mph held up the following drivers for 25 minutes. He has no possible way of knowing this, so the rest of his claims are suspect and unreliable.


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## Drago (20 Sep 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Yes but exercising your right if it makes it safer, by preventing bad overtakes, is worth it, even if some drivers are slowed by a few seconds.
> 
> My safety trumps your convenience.



It MIGHT make you safer - however, if there should be a complete dilbert who's going to overtake come what may then it may actually make you more vulnerable, and when a tonne and a half of steel is being forced through then his convenience will seriously trump your safety.

Some consideration as regards making a move appropriate to the circumstances is what makes you safer, not blindly insisting on doing one thing or another because it's your right. Taking the actions calculated to have the best chance of keeping you alive at that exact moment in time is the thing to do, and if that means surrendering for a moment one of your "rights" then the only thing that gets injured is your ego, which heals a lot quicker than your spine or skull.


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## glenn forger (20 Sep 2015)

Drago said:


> Some consideration as regards making a move appropriate to the circumstances is what makes you safer, not blindly insisting on doing one thing or another because it's your right.



Once again, nobody has said anything like that, you're arguing with voices in your head.


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## Markymark (20 Sep 2015)

Drago said:


> It MIGHT make you safer - however, if there should be a complete dilbert who's going to overtake come what may then it may actually make you more vulnerable, and when a tonne and a half of steel is being forced through then his convenience will seriously trump your safety.
> 
> Some consideration as regards making a move appropriate to the circumstances is what makes you safer, not blindly insisting on doing one thing or another because it's your right. Taking the actions calculated to have the best chance of keeping you alive at that exact moment in time is the thing to do, and if that means surrendering for a moment one of your "rights" then the only thing that gets injured is your ego, which heals a lot quicker than your spine or skull.


Yep. Don't do it always but I choose when and if I do it, nobody else.


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## Brandane (20 Sep 2015)

Tin Pot said:


> I often wonder what a CC pub meet would be like.
> 
> "Bring weapons." Probably.


Many regional variations, methinks . Us civilised folks at CC Ecosse manage to meet up on occasions without any blood being spilled. Perhaps a more laid back approach to cycling and life in general is a help. As for some of those pub meets advertised in that big city in SE England that look like a SCP night out; I'd rather stick pins in my eyes whilst undergoing a colonoscopy.


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## Simpleton (20 Sep 2015)

Gawd blimey Guv'nor, relax and mellow my lovelies, relax and mellow.

The issue here is if the cyclists were taking up the whole road or the whole lane.

whole lane is fine as other motor vehicles by rights should be in the opposite lane when overtaking.

whole road is fine as the cyclists safety supersedes car people wantong to get to work.

in short, bike persons are right, carry on.


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## dave r (20 Sep 2015)

Sim2003 said:


> @dave r
> Im pretty local to you Dave, I head out regularly on a Tuesday with a few others that join me. Feel free to tag along. Usually do a 20-40+ mile ride , Going to Kingsbury this Tuesday. I am not fast though  12mph avg if im lucky on those rides.



Sounds great, unfortunately I'm working, but I'm due to retire in just over a year so I'll try and remember for then.


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## EltonFrog (20 Sep 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Dirk Diggler claimed that cyclists riding away from him at a total speed of 30mph held up the following drivers for 25 minutes. He has no possible way of knowing this, so the rest of his claims are suspect and unreliable.



So what, no one cares except you.


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## EltonFrog (20 Sep 2015)

User said:


> Not so, i care. He made some wild essentially claims based on the premise that we shouldn't inconvenience motorists. I for one am perfectly prepared to concede road when it doesn't inconvenience me but, that aside, I happy to assert my and your right to be on the road.
> If you don't want to assert your right, I guess you will just have to rely on someone else.



Well that is a load off my mind.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

People who want other road users to yield to their every desire when riding, yet don't want to reciprocate the same courtesy to other road users, because it may inconvenience them. 

Wow. 

Is it any wonder there's a profound hatred from the motorist to the leisure cyclist.


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## Pat "5mph" (20 Sep 2015)

User said:


> Not so, i care. He made some wild essentially claims based on the premise that we shouldn't inconvenience motorists. I for one am perfectly prepared to concede road when it doesn't inconvenience me but, that aside, I happy to assert my and your right to be on the road.
> If you don't want to assert your right, I guess you will just have to rely on someone else.


Oh for goodness sake, what is your "right" worth if the impatient motorist runs you over?
The other day I got a close pass on a 20mph narrow road, with speed bumps and cars parked along both sides - which are cycle lanes btw.
What chances have we got? I was in the centre of my lane, of course had to swerve to the left, he wasn't going to stop!
Once I almost swore at a dog that was crossing the road off the leach, right in front of my wheel.
The owner, indignant, said " she (a she dog) has the same right as you to use the road.
Aye, right! 

@Crandoggler as shown in the diagram posted above, sometimes it is indeed safer for a group to cycle bunched up.
There could be another reason too for the 2 abreast: we do this when there are inexperienced cyclist in the group and we have to take a busy road.
The experienced ones ride on the outside to protect the newbies from aggressive traffic. Obviously, we try to stay on traffic free paths as much as we can, but the new cyclist has to learn the road somehow.


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## Crandoggler (20 Sep 2015)

I agree, looking back, maybe a bulk would have been easier to overtake, especially with the amount of cyclists there were. It just seemed a bit over the top for a Saturday morning bimble, where cars had a good ~couple of miles with no chance to pass. 

Horses for courses I suppose. But not my kettle of fish.


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## glenn forger (21 Sep 2015)

Crandoggler said:


> People who want other road users to yield to their every desire when riding, yet don't want to reciprocate the same courtesy to other road users, because it may inconvenience them.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Is it any wonder there's a profound hatred from the motorist to the leisure cyclist.



Where did you get that 25 minute delay from? You made it up, didn't you?


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## Markymark (21 Sep 2015)

They weren't 8 wide. They weren't going 12mph. Nobody was delayed 25 minutes. 

It's all nonsense.


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## Markymark (21 Sep 2015)

User said:


> Yeah but the embellishment helped to make the point.


Here's what I think happened. Driver happily driving along. Sees some cyclists in a group and had to slow a little to safely pass. Forgets entirely that said driver slows for other cars constantly. Gets very annoyed that these cyclists made the driver go slowly for a few seconds.

Takes to a forum to write a whinge. Realise what the cyclists did, when writing is actually not that bad. Exaggerates the story to justify their annoyance. Gets upset when it unravels and people can see it's all just a load of bias tosh.


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## outlash (21 Sep 2015)




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## Moderators (21 Sep 2015)

This thread is now just going around in circles - time for it to close.


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