# Taking the plunge. Possibly. Definitely. Maybe.



## Incontinentia Buttocks (28 Oct 2018)

Been thinking about an ebike for a while now but really torn.
I used to commute 11 miles each way on my road bike, took about 40-45mins but took in some hideous inner city routes. I was ran over and had several genuine near death misses and that put me off massively, so much so that I stopped riding.
Then a few months ago in a moment of clarity I plotted a new route to work, 13 miles each way but most of it along a canal towpaths with a pretty good surface. Out comes my 10 year old Carrera Fury MTB shod in schwalbe city jets, lights that could pick out an incoming enemy raider at 10000 feet and I'm all set.

A revelation, the new route is brilliant, traffic and people free (mostly) and at 0500hrs in the morning with freezing mist rising slowly off the canal it's stunningly beautiful. But. It's now nearly 26 miles a day for 6 days (earlies, lates, nights) and by the last 2 days I'm shattered. I'm reasonably fit, but a big heavy old bike, a long route that takes much longer and shift work is taking it's toll, and I don't want want to stop riding again as it's good for my mind and body in equal measure, so an ebike rear hub conversion from Woosh for the Fury seems to be the cost effective answer.

To you ebike riders I have a few questions, do you still get a good work out? I'm burning a 1000+ calories extra a day and liking the effect!
Are they waterproof? I ride in all weather.
Are they a royal pain in the ass to change an inner tube? (I've been looking at GAADI inner tubes)
Is a conversion a good idea?
Anything else I should consider?
Many thanks for reading my ramble!


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## gbb (28 Oct 2018)

Just musing.
26 miles a day, 6 days a week. My battery at just over 11 Ahr is rated for around 60 miles but I'd find that'd need recharging every 2 days at best, not sure how it would manage even at that, the mileage remaining falls off a cliff when you get to around 5 to 10 % remaining. You'd probably be ok with charging every 2 days...but not certain .
Many batteries are capable of 500 charges so yours would potentially use those 500 in around 3 years at 3 charges a week, 2 years with 4 charges a week....so way beyond any warranted period. That's based on the Suntour system, it'd be interesting to see what the specs say on your proposed system.
What I do know is what a revelation the ebike is for commuting, it's night and day. To arrive at work fresh after a 14 miles ride in my case is so much nicer that arriving sweat ridden if it's been windy....but no, it's not a free ride, you are still putting in some reasonable effort....but nowhere near full effort of course.
Does it spoil you ?...yes it probably would if you let it.


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## Pale Rider (28 Oct 2018)

Altering the assistance level will enable you to put in more effort - assuming you have the self-discipline.

In other words, if the journey takes 45 minutes on full power, if you turn the level down a couple of notches, but still complete the journey in the same time you will have had more of a workout.

More expensive crank drive ebikes tend to be better for this because they have speed, cadence and torque sensors.

The control of a budget hub kit will not be as elaborate, but will still do the job.

Riding in the rain should be OK, but ebikes don't like being left wet, especially in conditions that promote condensation.

Changing an inner tube on a hub motor is more of a faff.

The kit ought to come with an inline cable connector a few inches from the motor, so you can pull that to free the wheel.

Just don't cable tie the motor cable to the chain stay, of if you do carry a blade to cut the cable ties and some sticky tape/spare ties to tidy the cable afterwards.

A Gaadi 'snake' tube would save you disconnecting the motor, but you still have to do something with the existing tube - tie or tape it to the carrier/frame or slit it to remove it.


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## Laser Man (28 Oct 2018)

Do it! You won't regret it.

My Woosh XF08c with a 17AH battery does about 60 miles in hilly terrain.
On canal towpaths I'd expect quite a few more miles, so long as the assist level is kept lowish.
My legs aren't good - recently had a knee replacement op - but on the flat I can do 7 to 8 mph in assistance level 1 and 12 to 14 mph in level 2.

The batteries (any make) don't work as well when they are cold, so through the winter you might need to charge more often.


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## Incontinentia Buttocks (29 Oct 2018)

Thank you all for the replies, very helpful. Just to confuse myself I'm having a test ride Friday on a 2017 Raleigh Strada E di2 that is on sale at the moment with leisure lakes. Prefer the look of the 2018 version but not £800 more like!


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## Pale Rider (30 Oct 2018)

Incontinentia Buttocks said:


> Thank you all for the replies, very helpful. Just to confuse myself I'm having a test ride Friday on a 2017 Raleigh Strada E di2 that is on sale at the moment with leisure lakes. Prefer the look of the 2018 version but not £800 more like!



The bike has the Shimano Steps motor - Shimano's equivalent of the Bosch crank drive.

Crank drives have more sophisticated motor control so tend to give a more natural cycling feel.

They are just like an ordinary bike either side of the bottom bracket, so changing a tube is simpler than on a motor hub wheel, although you will always have the extra weight of the bike to manhandle.

Looks like the Raleigh has the 400wh capacity battery which means you will almost certainly have to recharge after every round trip.

A lot of Bosch motored bikes have a 500wh battery which should do two trips.

More battery capacity = more money, but you could probably find a 500wh Bosch bike for under £2,000.


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## Incontinentia Buttocks (30 Oct 2018)

@Pale Rider, Thanks for the info, can I plunder your brain a little bit more though.
The Strada has an Alfine hub which I've never used before but have seen before, and I've never seen them with a deralieur like the Strada has, is this normal?


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## Pale Rider (30 Oct 2018)

The bike has an Alfine 8 gear hub which has a single sprocket.

The 'derailer' is a chain tensioner.

What is unusual in the linked pic is the tensioner has two jockey wheels, with the chain threaded like a derailer.

It would be more usual to have a tensioner with a single jockey wheel, or no tensioner at all - plenty of internal gear hub bikes run happily without.

My guess is the tensioner with two jockey wheels is spring loaded which means it keeps the correct tension on the chain without you having to set it manually.

My Rose/Alfine 11 Bosch ebike came with no tensioner.

Fine until I changed the sprockets to lower the gear range.

I fitted a Shimano after market tensioner, fairly straightforward, it just hooked over the axle.

No spring, it was clamped in place by the axle nut and had to be adjusted occasionally to take up chain slack.

You may not want to change the gear range on the Raleigh if you get it, but with a tensioner already fitted you would have the option.

https://www.evanscycles.com/raleigh-strada-e-2018-electric-hybrid-bike-EV277547


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## Incontinentia Buttocks (30 Oct 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> The bike has an Alfine 8 gear hub which has a single sprocket.
> 
> The 'derailer' is a chain tensioner.
> 
> ...


That makes sense now, thank you. The bike I'm test riding is the ex demo and is up for £1250 which seems a bit of a bargain. If I like it I'll definitely be having it.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Nov 2018)

gbb said:


> Many batteries are capable of 500 charges so yours would potentially use those 500 in around 3 years at 3 charges a week, 2 years with 4 charges a week....so way beyond any warranted period. That's based on the Suntour system, it'd be interesting to see what the specs say on your proposed system



I’m late to this thread, interested in an Ebike for myself so I’m devouring all the discussions to get a feel for what solutions/ choices others have made.
With regard to the Battery’s 500 charge cycle I was under the impression that the number refers to the number of charges until the capacity drops to 80% of original capacity, so the battery will still work , just not have the initial “ as new “ range.

Have I misunderstood?


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## gbb (14 Nov 2018)

Tenkaykev said:


> I’m late to this thread, interested in an Ebike for myself so I’m devouring all the discussions to get a feel for what solutions/ choices others have made.
> With regard to the Battery’s 500 charge cycle I was under the impression that the number refers to the number of charges until the capacity drops to 80% of original capacity, so the battery will still work , just not have the initial “ as new “ range.
> 
> Have I misunderstood?



I suspect you're some way right, the battery isnt going to fail once it reaches 500 charges but it will have fallen away in performance. I think its just a figure they use where performance will still be acceptable from a warranty perspective....although its not really quantifiable unless you log every single charge made....which realistically, no-one is going to do.
There's so many variables re battery life, use, discharges, how far was it discharged, temperature etc etc. Its probably safe to say the 2 year warranty is a safe zone for both parties, consumer and manufacturer.


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## Pale Rider (14 Nov 2018)

A discharge for counting purposes is a full discharge which a lot of users rarely do.

If you routinely recharge at about half full you could do that 1,000 times before reaching your 500,

I can't be bothered to keep a score, but I have a couple of Bosch batteries which are about six years old and are still holding plenty of charge.


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## capricapers (14 Nov 2018)

We have a pair of S Works Turbo Levos (MTBs) which we bought last year. They have now been superseded by a model with a far greater battery life. The end result is that we have lost money on them, when we come to sell them. 
So I think that buying a more modest EBike is a good thing, as this sector is evolving so quickly.
Yes, I do get a workout but much less of one when I use my E-Bike. Even to the point at which when I tackle a hill on my pure road bike, the words ‘You have GOT to be kidding!’ go through my head. 
Also, we have ‘adapted’ these EMTBs so there is no speed limit on them. Via a Bluetooth ‘patch’ we changed the wheel size which means there is no drag when you reach 15.5mph or more. We can fly along at 30mph if you have the momentum. This could be an interesting feature if you need to get work quickly but without a car. 
In an ideal world, I would use the EBike for the commuting and get on a non EBike for more cardiovascular exercise at the weekend.


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