# Are co2 inflators the way to go?



## johnnyb47 (1 Sep 2018)

Hi. I was having a walk around my local lidl shop yesterday when I spotted some co2 inflators selling for £3.99. It got me thinking as to whether I should ditch the mini pump ( which isn't that fantastic) and carry a co2 inflator instead. I've never used one before and was just wondering are they a worthy reliable replacement to the bike mini pump. 
All the very best,
Johnny.


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## Drago (1 Sep 2018)

No. Their production and distribution is bad for the environment, and the caplets can't be recycled easily. It's the bicycle tyre inflating equivalent of a baby wipe - oh so convenient, but oh so wrong.


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## Brandane (1 Sep 2018)

They're useful if you're in a hurry to inflate a tyre after a puncture, but they are not a replacement for a pump, IMHO..
Problem with CO2 cylinders is - you don't know when you set off, how many punctures you are going to have. None? 1? 5?
Once used, a CO2 cylinder is useless, whereas a pump will go on and on. 
I used to carry both, but then figured it was a bit pointless as I'm not in a hurry when I cycle, so ditched the CO2 and just carry a pump now. It helps if it's a good, reliable pump of course. I like Lezyne pumps.


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## ianrauk (1 Sep 2018)

I carry both.
The C02 is easy, mega quick and handy.


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## welsh dragon (1 Sep 2018)

I do like Co2 cannisters. Much easier to use.


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## BorderReiver (1 Sep 2018)

Easier to use until one day you have "n+1" punctures but "n" cartridges. I suppose if you know how many punctures you are going to get before you set off they are great, enviromental issues asside.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (1 Sep 2018)




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## nickyboy (1 Sep 2018)

How do you determine the pressure obtained with a C02 canister?

Meaning ...if I want 90-100psi how do I do this? Is this "one canisters worth"?


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## ianrauk (1 Sep 2018)

nickyboy said:


> How do you determine the pressure obtained with a C02 canister?
> 
> Meaning ...if I want 90-100psi how do I do this? Is this "one canisters worth"?


For a 23 or 25 tyre yes, one canister worth gets the tyre up to about 90-100.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Sep 2018)

They don't always work, leaving you with a walk home.


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## Old jon (1 Sep 2018)

ianrauk said:


> I carry both.
> The C02 is easy, mega quick and handy.




Me too.


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## Heigue'r (1 Sep 2018)

Depends on your ride really,I bring 3 co2 canisters on the commute,19 miles each way,If I got 4 punctures over this distance,the bike would be thrown over the nearest ditch id say.
If on a wkend ride,I or someone on the ride would have a pump along with Co2 cartridges,The Co2 would be used first.
Co2 has made the commute a lot easier because now I dont mind changing the tyre and then inflating it in seconds as opposed to using a mini pump and struggling to get the tyre up to a decent enough pressure*

*pump may have been crap but was a decent enough leznye one


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## HLaB (1 Sep 2018)

I wouldn't rely on one alone. The last time I needed one the chuck was jammed, fortunately I had a pump. Another time the pump burst though and it was a good back up. I'll need to get a new chuck as for me its a good back up, I prefer to use a pump 90% of the time but every so often you need to be that wee bit faster.


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## johnnyb47 (1 Sep 2018)

All good stuff to read here. Thanks all :-)


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## HarryTheDog (1 Sep 2018)

This year on my commutes I have stopped for 3 people who found their pumps were knackered, ( not used for long time and not checked) 2 borrowed my pump, the 3rd I was in a hurry and sold him a cylinder. I haven't stopped for anyone who had a knackered cylinder. I carry both on my commute just in case. Both my CX and MTB are tubeless so have to carry cylinders anyway. Find them brilliant, use the pump when I have time and want to save some money.


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## screenman (1 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> They don't always work, leaving you with a walk home.



I have found that more likely to be down to operator error, rather than the tool misworking, I have 5 of the things and never had a problem.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Sep 2018)

Heigue'r said:


> Depends on your ride really,I bring 3 co2 canisters on the commute,19 miles each way,If I got 4 punctures over this distance,the bike would be thrown over the nearest ditch id say.
> If on a wkend ride,I or someone on the ride would have a pump along with Co2 cartridges,The Co2 would be used first.
> Co2 has made the commute a lot easier because now I dont mind changing the tyre and then inflating it in seconds as opposed to using a mini pump and struggling to get the tyre up to a decent enough pressure*



Great that you share the CO2 amongst the group.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Sep 2018)

Why is it that no-one seems to carry a proper full-sized frame pump any more? At one time every bike apart from an out and out racer, would have a pump permanently attached.


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## Heigue'r (1 Sep 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Great that you share the CO2 amongst the group.



Yes,yes it is.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Why is it that no-one seems to carry a proper full-sized frame pump any more? At one time every bike apart from an out and out racer, would have a pump permanently attached.


It's more difficult with a compact frame, especially now that monocoque frames have curved profiles where the tubes "Join", as it were.

Also back in the day few people bothered with a bottle cage on the seat tube which was the ideal place to secure a pump. Decent mini pumps do a good job these days (I said decent, not something you picked up in the pound shop), getting a good riding pressure without too much effort.


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## NorthernDave (1 Sep 2018)

I carry cartridges and a decent mini pump (and two spare tubes and a pack of Park Tools instant patches).

Covers all bases and is the weight of a cartridge (or a mini pump) either here or there unless you're Chris Froome?


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Why is it that no-one seems to carry a proper full-sized frame pump any more? At one time every bike apart from an out and out racer, would have a pump permanently attached.


They don't fit my xs frames.
Also they get stolen.
I keep my mini pumps in my panniers.


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## JhnBssll (1 Sep 2018)

I have just bought 2 mini pumps, one for each of my 'Nice' road bikes that have previously had CO2 cartridges. The main reason for the change was my recent century failure at 94 miles; I decided carrying a proper pump and having the ability to fix multiple flats was the way to forward


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## johnnyb47 (1 Sep 2018)

JhnBssll said:


> I have just bought 2 mini pumps, one for each of my 'Nice' road bikes that have previously had CO2 cartridges. The main reason for the change was my recent century failure at 94 miles; I decided carrying a proper pump and having the ability to fix multiple flats was the way to forward


Oh good grief. I bet that was frustrating. In my eyes though you still did the magic century and a big well done to you !!


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## Ajax Bay (1 Sep 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Why is it that no-one seems to carry a proper full-sized frame pump any more?


Because there is a range of excellent short pumps made nowadays which will satisfy the emergency need to inflate a replaced tube to a satisfactory pressure. The very smallest can fit in a back pocket; otherwise clipped to a fitting onto the bottle cage braze-ons is convenient and out of the way. All in all: better.
If a pump doesn't deliver the required pressure, get one that does. Is the time difference between using a CO2 cylinder (waste and expense) and an effective pump really important to recreational riders? I can see that on a commute, the saving of time would be 'worth it'.


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## tyred (1 Sep 2018)

I can't understand why you wouldn't want to use a proper pump - a one off expense which can be re-use zillions of times and also used on other things like a wheelbarrow or my nephew's football.

Mind you, I once seen a woman riding with a track pump sticking out of her rucksack which seems a triple OTT for an occasional puncture.


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## Jenkins (2 Sep 2018)

I'm another that carries both a mini pump and CO2 - with them being combined in one unit on some of my bikes thanks to pumps like the PDW Magic Flute and the Bontrager Air Rush.


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## froze (2 Sep 2018)

I'm going to echo some of the others here. CO2 is a waste of money for anyone who isn't racing and responsible for fixing their own flats during a race, plain and simple. CO2 cost money to buy, you the have to dispose of spent carts (of course dopes in the States simply toss the carts on the side of the road but I digress), you have to remember to replace the used carts with the new ones before a ride or buy more after experiencing a flat, CO2 air leaks (or bleeds through the tube) out faster then normal air which means once you get home after using CO2 you have to completely drain the tube and refill with pump air which seems like a waste of time to me, with CO2 you have a limited air supply which means it's possible you could run out of air if you have more than two flats (assuming you're carrying 2 CO2 carts), the bigger the tire the less air you'll be able to get in (so much less it may not even be rideable), some people have blown tubes with CO2 going in too fast in road tires; CO2 works great though with tubeless tires though you should use a pump once the bead is seated. Pump air is free, yes it takes longer so what? remember what I said though about CO2 air and having to drain and refill plus the time it takes to go to a store to buy more, so really you're wasting more time with CO2's.

Most mini pumps are a joke however, their advertisements will lead you to believe they can pump up to 160 psi which no mini pump I've ever used ever got close to that level, however most won't even get to 75 which for some people may be to low, for others it will get you home so you have cut your ride short and go home...I HATE stuff that works like that, I want to continue to my ride damn it. So I've only found a few pumps in the States that will get to 110 psi that use in my tires, and the best one I've found is the Lezyne Road Drive long, not the short or the medium version. There are other ones that I have will reach my desired limit but the Lezyne works the best with the least amount of effort from any mini. I think Europe has some pumps like the Birzman. The long version Lezyne takes about 250 strokes to get to 110 psi, which seems like a lot strokes but the Topeak Race Rocket HP (which it the best one that Topeak has for road bikes) takes about 320 strokes to get to 110 and a lot more muscle effort is needed when you get above 90 psi. I've read that the Birzman Velocity Road mini pump will get to 100 plus but I haven't used one to confirm that. Topeak does make a pump called the Road Morph G but while it works really good it's large and ungainly looking plus the mounting system sucks. If you were going to go with something as large as the Topeak Road Morph you might as well go with a full frame pump and get the Zefal HPX it will work better than the Topeak plus the mounting system is superior and you can use it beat dogs with if needed.

IF for some reason you get sold on CO2 at least get a hybrid CO2 system, this pump is both a CO2 inflator and a mini pump so in case you run out of CO2 air you can pump, or you start a tire with the pump and finish with CO2.


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## Alan O (2 Sep 2018)

When I went out yesterday I had a CO2 inflator with 3 cartridges, a mini-pump in my bag, and a frame pump on the bike - and I didn't have a puncture, so it works.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Sep 2018)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> View attachment 427987


The inflation choice of Champions.....


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

CO2 and mini pump attached as we speak to any one of the 5 bikes I might want to ride today, another bike is on the turbo and one is my old mtb kept for sentimental reasons.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2018)

I have a selection of pumps but never carry one because being crouched over a bike performing rapid hand movements while going red in the face looks like an act of onanism. A cylinder is quick and painless and a secondary consideration is that living on the edge of the nastiness of Manchester and the mill towns I do have a small worry about being mugged for my bike by scrotes in a van. A blast of freezing CO2 in the face might just shock them for long enough for me to make my escape.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Sep 2018)

On the Thanet Platinum 200 Audax yesterday, me and @Salty seadog chanced across a lightweight roadie with bike upturned. We were on a road in a forst mikes from anywhere. Being of a kind disposition, Salty stopped and offered help.
Rider has no pump at all and only had 2. CO2 cartridges and both had failed. Salty offered pumpage, called him an idiot and sent him on his way!

I’m certain that one decent full size Zefal pump (which inflates a tyre in very short time) is about the same weight as a mini-pump plus CO2 cylinders. You don’t have to keep buying cylinders, it’s better for the planet. 
Also some tossers just discard their empties by the roadside.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2018)

I always used to carry a £2.99 plastic Bluemells pump in my backpack while mountain biking and time and again it came to the rescue when other riders had run out of puff trying to inflate 26 x 2.4" tyres with mini pumps.


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> (and anyway I very, very rarely get punctures due to my tyre choice).



Best check your pumps working now.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2018)

Anybody who lives in a city will have noticed the proliferation of used nitrous oxide cylinders lying around after being used by kids to get a high. They are cheap and readily available off Eblag, I wonder if they could substitute a CO2 cylinder? They are smaller but the nozzle looks the same size.


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

Globalti said:


> Anybody who lives in a city will have noticed the proliferation of used nitrous oxide cylinders lying around after being used by kids to get a high. They are cheap and readily available off Eblag, I wonder if they could substitute a CO2 cylinder? They are smaller but the nozzle looks the same size.



I'm sure I read on here r recently that it was not a suitable gas. Cannot remember why.
Co2 is not expensive though, I got 48 for about £8 online how long will they last as I will primarily pump.


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## faster (2 Sep 2018)

It depends on each persons individual circumstances and attitude to risk.

For me, it's CO2 every time, as it's more convenient and cheaper than buying a mini pump. I've only had three punctures out on the road in the last 12,000 miles, so I only carry an inflator, one cartridge, one inner tube, one of those tiny packs of Park patches (about the size of a postage stamp!), and a tiny schrader/presta converter thingy so I could use a pump at a garage in an emergency. The whole lot fits into a zip lock bag about the size of a fag packet, so it easily fits into a jersey pocket.

Obviously, there is a risk I might not be able fix a puncture if I have more than one, but I think the risk is acceptably small. Realistically, there is more risk of something else going wrong like a broken spoke/rim or a slashed tyre. I take a phone and some cash with me, so I'll probably be able to get home somehow!

I've seen more problems caused by over furious pumping tearing the valve out of the tube than I've seen with CO2. It's not easy to get to a high enough pressure for narrow tyres with a mini pump, and you need the right pump. Some are useless.

If I had a pump attached to the bike, it would probably get destroyed by the salt over winter anyway. I don't understand the cost argument - the inflator heads are a couple of quid from Wiggle and cartridges are about a pound each.


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## betty swollocks (2 Sep 2018)

They are handy to seat a tubeless tyre.
But I always carry a mini pump, some of which are very good.


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> I'm sure I read on here r recently that it was not a suitable gas. Cannot remember why.
> Co2 is not expensive though, I got 48 for about £8 online how long will they last as I will primarily pump.



This is a cycling forum, it will always come down to how much


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

screenman said:


> This is a cycling forum, it will always come down to how much




Oh year, D'oh. 

The more expensive it is the better it must be. My Co2 must be rubbish....


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## Vantage (2 Sep 2018)

The very definition of stupidity...paying for air in a canister when it's abundantly free all around


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

Vantage said:


> The very definition of stupidity...paying for air in a canister when it's abundantly free all around



I charge upwards of £50 and hour for my labour, the canisters save me time and time is money. That is not the reason I use them though


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## NorthernDave (2 Sep 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Oh year, D'oh.
> 
> The more expensive it is the better it must be. My Co2 must be rubbish....



How long before someone starts selling Carbon Trioxide (CO3) cartridges? 

Or on a slightly more serious point, selling nitrogen cartridges - after all, if it's "better" for car tyres, it _has_ to be better for bicycles doesn't it?


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> How long before someone starts selling Carbon Trioxide (CO3) cartridges?
> 
> Or on a slightly more serious point, selling nitrogen cartridges - after all, if it's "better" for car tyres, it _has_ to be better for bicycles doesn't it?




Is it better for cars? I'll have a Google.


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## NorthernDave (2 Sep 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Is it better for cars? I'll have a Google.



A couple of the tyre fitting companies made a big deal about using nitrogen to inflate the new tyres they fit - I think one of them might even have been charging a small premium for it too. Something to do with the molecules...


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## classic33 (2 Sep 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> *How long before someone starts selling Carbon Trioxide (CO3) cartridges? *
> 
> Or on a slightly more serious point, selling nitrogen cartridges - after all, if it's "better" for car tyres, it _has_ to be better for bicycles doesn't it?


They're out there, already. However..
_Carbon Trioxide exists as a gas, but it is highly unstable. Formed by electrical arcs in a mizture of carbon dioxide and oxygen, or by passing ozone (O3) across dry ice; CO3 breaks down into carbon dioxide and oxygen in less than sixty seconds at standard temperature and pressure, meaning that it has little to no industrial or comercial use._


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> A couple of the tyre fitting companies made a big deal about using nitrogen to inflate the new tyres they fit - I think one of them might even have been charging a small premium for it too. Something to do with the molecules...



Yes charging more. All it bills down to is nitrogen takes longer to lose pressure on the tyres and is less susceptible to temperature changes. 

Cost v benefit not worth it in the real world.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Yes charging more. All it bills down to is nitrogen takes longer to lose pressure on the tyres and is less susceptible to temperature changes.
> 
> Cost v benefit not worth it in the real world.


F1 teams use nitrogen for that reason.


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## classic33 (2 Sep 2018)

_The substance could form and be present on Ganymede!!_


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## Salty seadog (2 Sep 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> F1 teams use nitrogen for that reason.



Indeed, hence.... 



Salty seadog said:


> Cost v benefit not worth it in the real world.


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## mjr (2 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Hah, thats nothing, I use carbon *pent*oxide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pentoxide


Why? Aren't you cool enough for Carbon *hex*oxide?

To the OP, no, co2 inflators are environmentally stupid damage. Just use a pump. Less likely to get freezer burn off a pump, too.


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

It gets me all this environmental stuff written by people sitting there using electricity to power their computers.


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## Drago (2 Sep 2018)

Or magic electricity from our 5kW solar installations.

Just by existing, breathing and eating we have an environmental impact. The fact that we all consume, is not a valid justification to be used by those who want to consume rampantly and needlessly. Consumption has consequences, and the thoughtful think about that and minimise their consumption - those that make the effort should be applauded, not derided.


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## Alan O (2 Sep 2018)

screenman said:


> It gets me all this environmental stuff written by people sitting there using electricity to power their computers.


What do you power yours with?


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

Alan O said:


> What do you power yours with?



Electricity from the grid, maybe I used the wrong words, found it funny may have been better. My used canisters are recycled.


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## screenman (2 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> What gets you?



See my other post.


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## classic33 (2 Sep 2018)

Alan O said:


> What do you power yours with?


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## Lonestar (3 Sep 2018)

Mini pump for me yesterday as someone has buggered up the track pump at work.

I also carry Tyreweld and it's got me out of trouble twice.

Just checked and yes I carry two different mini pumps.I had a pump disintegrate on me once and ended up walking two and a half miles home.


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## GravityFighter (3 Sep 2018)

I had this very issue yesterday. First roadside puncture in two years. reach for my trusty (or so I thought) Bontrager AirRush dispense and CO2 cartridge. Trouble was the nut on the valve of the dispenser had seized / broken, meaning the cartridges were of precisely sod all use!

Luckily it also doubles-up as a mini pump, so I managed to get enough air into the new tube to nurse the bike 4 miles home. Glad I wasn't a long way out, as I'd have had to keep refilling the tyre or find another answer. 

Lesson: always check your equipment! I'm now in the market for a better standalone mini-pump and doubt I'll rely on CO2 again.


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## rrarider (3 Sep 2018)

I can second the suggestion to 'check your equipment'. As the rider of a 1980s conventionally framed bike, I've always carried, and used, a frame fitting pump. When I bought the bike new, it came with such a pump, which broke after many years, so I replaced it with another cheap frame fitting pump. For months, I didn't ever use it, as I'd always inflated my tyres with a track pump. For some reason, I had occasion to top up my tyres with the frame pump, only to discover that the thing was actually useless. Fortunately I was at home when I realised this, so after asking on this forum for recommendations for a good frame pump able to reach high pressure, I was advised to get either a Zefal HPX or a Topeak Road Master Blaster. I opted for the latter and it's fine. I did buy a mini-pump from a supermarket as it was on offer; it's fine for putting a tiny bit of air into a tube when refitting tyre and tube but I wouldn't fancy using it for a roadside puncture.


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## Sbudge (3 Sep 2018)

One other thing I've not seen mentioned here. They can get very cold indeed (freezing) when used. I've had issues in winter with tubes getting brittle and splitting immediately after use. You can get round it with an adjustable inflator (slowly letting CO2 into the tube to begin with) but if you give it 'full gas' on a cold winter's day the results can be horrid!


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## si_c (3 Sep 2018)

Sbudge said:


> One other thing I've not seen mentioned here. They can get very cold indeed (freezing) when used. I've had issues in winter with tubes getting brittle and splitting immediately after use. You can get round it with an adjustable inflator (slowly letting CO2 into the tube to begin with) but if you give it 'full gas' on a cold winter's day the results can be horrid!



Should do that anyway irrespective of the weather, if you've seated the tyre/tube even slightly badly you can get a pinch puncture if you just full-gas it. Although you can avoid that by putting a bit of air into the tube with a mini-pump first.


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## byegad (3 Sep 2018)

I carry a pump, for initial inflation prior to finishing off fitting the tyre. And a CO2 inflator to quickly inflate to get me on my way. I then reinflate at home with a track pump. CO2 doesn't stay in very long.


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## Lonestar (3 Sep 2018)

Found tyre deflated today on checking...Luckily no commute otherwise it would have been the Brompton or a rush repair.I'm generally up one and a half hours before I leave but whether I would have checked the tyre is another matter.

I thought it was a bit strange yesterday but as I don't use the Audax every day I just thought it was natural wastage.


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## Johnno260 (3 Sep 2018)

I carry CO2 it's ok but I have frozen my fingers a few times, but that's operator error.

I always use my main pump once home as the CO2 leaks out way faster, if I could find a decent minipump I would use that instead.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Sep 2018)

NorthernDave said:


> A couple of the tyre fitting companies made a big deal about using nitrogen to inflate the new tyres they fit - I think one of them might even have been charging a small premium for it too. Something to do with the molecules...



Which is a bit silly as the air that surrounds you is 78% Nitrogen anyway.


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## mjr (3 Sep 2018)

Sbudge said:


> One other thing I've not seen mentioned here. They can get very cold indeed (freezing) when used.


TMN to me! https://www.cyclechat.net/posts/5369610


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## BalkanExpress (4 Sep 2018)

I was on a ride a couple of weeks ago where someone forgot to open the valve on the tube before unleashing the CO2.

Luckily it was a posh lezyne inflator which separated, rather than exploded, into two . I assume it was a safety feature.

It was a vintage ride, if he had used a Silca he would have been okay


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## Ajax Bay (5 Sep 2018)

Thought I'd check timings the next time I had to inflate a tyre (after deflating to remove a wheel with one 28mm wide through the calipers).
Using a Cannondale Airspeed LX (348mm long, which I clip/strap to my seat tube/bottle cage braze ons, remaindered at £5) it took me 150 pumps to achieve 100psi (622-28 clincher tyre) in 99 seconds. During a group ride, I've observed a fellow rider using a CO2 cartridge, taking less than 10 seconds, including removal. But achieving what pressure 'nobody knows'. Is 90 seconds during a ride where a puncture occurs (rather few with sensible choice of tyre and attention to detritus on road) really worth the capital and running expense of CO2? If unused, after what length of time is it prudent to replace the cartridges?
100psi is more than I normally run in my front tyre (80psi). When I'm forced to inflate a tyre on the roadside, unlike those having to rely on CO2 canisters, I know what pressure I will achieve with 100 pumps (80psi) in 68 seconds and if, during a long ride, say, I think a tyre needs checking/inflating a bit more I have the flexibility to do that too.


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## mjr (5 Sep 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> But achieving what pressure 'nobody knows'.


There are a few C02 inflators with gauges but no-one buys them, probably because they're a few ml bigger than ones without. Heck, loads of people carry mini pumps without gauges for similar reasons.

Apparently there are tables of what pressure you should get from a given size of CO2 cartridge in a given size of tyre, like http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/...-2016-08-01-at-12.48.36-PM-e1470082539825.jpg but that's going to suck for someone like me with everything from 25mm to 50mm tyres in the shed. I'd probably have to carry several sizes and label the tubes... a pump is far simpler and, as others note, it's a good idea to carry a pump as backup anyway, so we come back to:



Ajax Bay said:


> Is 90 seconds during a ride where a puncture occurs (rather few with sensible choice of tyre and attention to detritus on road) really worth the capital and running expense of CO2?


No.


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## andrew_s (5 Sep 2018)

Although I can see why people like CO2 inflators, I've never been in favour of them myself.

When you puncture, before putting the new tube in, you should always find and remove the cause of the puncture.
If you don't, you'll just be stopping again a way down the road. Even if you've got a 2nd CO2 cartridge and some instant patches, you've got 2 punctured tubes, and no reliable way of finding where the punctures are without using at least part of the CO2.

If it's a thorn or a sizeable lump of glass, the cause is easy enough to find, but if you stopped because your tyre was down to 25 psi or so, the cause might well be something like a fragment of glass or flint smaller than the thickness of the tyre, and not readily visible from either the inside or the outside.
Trying to find such a small flint visually can take a considerable time, flexing each little nick open, individually. You may have to check the whole tyre more than once.
The hardest to find are generally fragments of wire strand (usually from the steel reinforcing in car/lorry tyres, I believe)

It's much quicker if you put some air in the tube, find the hole in the tube, and then line it up against the tyre, so you've only got a couple of inches of tyre to check (you did remember to keep track of which way round the tube was, didn't you?). The trouble is that a small, slowish puncture isn't that easy to find in a tube either. The best way is to just keep inflating the tube until it's several times the size of the tyre. The hole stretches proportionally with the tube, and the air leaks out faster.

That could easily use the whole of a CO2 cartridge, if not more.
A tube from a 25 mm tyre inflated to 2" across will use the same amount of gas as it would take to inflate the tyre to 8 bar/117 psi. I've had to take tubes to bigger than that to find punctures in the past.

I prefer not to be limited to the amount of gas I decided to bring, and rely on a proper Zefal HPx or Road Master Blaster pump.

On the subject of pumps, the basic rule is that the bigger the pump is, the better it works. That's why everyone with any sense uses a track pump at home.
Those "mini" pumps that work reasonably well (Topeak Road Morph, or Ajax Bay's Cannondale Airspeed) generally aren't very mini at all (a bit like BMW minis)


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## andrew_s (5 Sep 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> If unused, after what length of time is it prudent to replace the cartridges?


Provided they look in good condition (not rusty, mostly), they will last indefinitely.


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## si_c (5 Sep 2018)

andrew_s said:


> Provided they look in good condition (not rusty, mostly), they will last indefinitely.


It's time to replace them when they are about to go bang.


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## roubaixtuesday (5 Sep 2018)

Always been a bit of a mystery to me why they're so popular. 

The actual pumping up of the new tube is a rather small part of the overall activity viz:

remove wheel / unseat tyre / find hole/ remove object causing hole/ [repair tube if no spare] / [remove tube if have spare and replace] / reseat tyre / refit wheel / inflate tube 

Jeopardizing this with a one off only method of inflating seems a bit pointless really.


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## Ajax Bay (6 Sep 2018)

roubaixtuesday said:


> remove wheel / unseat tyre / find hole/ remove object causing hole/ [repair tube if no spare] / [remove tube if have spare and replace] / reseat tyre / refit wheel / inflate tube


remove wheel /
unseat tyre / and remove tube
find hole in tube
* *pump* up tube to find hole
* match site of puncture on tube with tyre
* find object causing hole
/ remove object causing hole
/ replace tube if have spare
* couple of *pump*s of air into tube (to ease fitting)
/ reseat tyre
/ refit wheel
* inflate 10 *pump*s and check bead is seated all round
/ *inflate* tube
How many instances of needing a pump can you see above? Perhaps a CO2 inflator could do all this.


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## screenman (6 Sep 2018)

Pull tube out, go around inside of tyre with mutton cloth, remove sharp object if there is one, replace tube properly and inflate with CO2, repair tube at home in comfort. That has worked for me since CO2 first come about for inflating tubes. It is as you may guess not about how much I could save, certainly not about weight or style, just about what I like doing, simple as that.


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## Ajax Bay (6 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> And the actual pumping takes what? a minute? (I've no idea, I've never timed it).


See my post on previous page for the Bobby Moore.


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## mjr (7 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> 68 seconds. I was close.


Some people would enjoy 68 seconds more pumping


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## DiddlyDodds (8 Sep 2018)

I have only ever used then as an emergency inflate and never had an issue, pressure wise they are good enough to get you home or to where ever your going, so yes they are the way to go.


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## Ajax Bay (9 Sep 2018)

I received my comeuppence yesterday for too much puncture and pumping discussion. First puncture in 5000km (at about 100k into a 300). V sharp thorn straight through front tyre, but trusty pump (described up thread) on hand and replacement tube pumped 120 times (which I know gets it to at least the required 80psi). And jumped into a passing group for the headwind ride south (to Amesbury).


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