# Secondhand Specialized Sirrus 2009



## Greenbread (13 Apr 2009)

Found the following ad on Gumtree, may be buying today.

http://www.gumtree.com/london/61/37426561.html

Any tips for buying/viewing a 2nd hand bike? I'm doing The Essex Castle - 75 miles - in July, and don't trust my MTB for the job. Also don't want to buy brand new as bikes are EXPENSIVE! Blimey.

Thanks...


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## philr (13 Apr 2009)

dont know much about second hand bike buying, but i have a 2008 spec sirrus,

and i must say i love it, very comfortable seat, good smooth ride.

some of my friends who are really keen bikers doing various events etc, have had a go on my spec and say its a great bike, and surprisingly light for the money i spent.

i have snapped a spoke recently and have done a forum search and found the sirrus seems to be quite common for spokes breakage etc.

i am sure there are lots of peeps here that can tell you what to look out for with second hand bikes.

regards

phil


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## Greenbread (13 Apr 2009)

Cheers Phil,

Got my eye out for a few models, the Sirrus is on the list. Could get it brand new for about £290 in Evans, so may do that if a good 2ndhand offer doesn't pop up.


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## Flyingfox (13 Apr 2009)

Check that the guy has a receipt, if it's this years model he should have proof of purchase. An awful lot of bikes on Gumtree are nicked, and the sellers have a habit of meeting you near a tube station, not at their residence.


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## Steve B (14 Apr 2009)

Flyingfox said:


> Check that the guy has a receipt, if it's this years model he should have proof of purchase. An awful lot of bikes on Gumtree are nicked, and the sellers have a habit of meeting you near a tube station, not at their residence.



Indeed - also ask why he is selling it so soon after he bought it, if its a 2009 model he hasn't exactly had it long has he. If he says its not right for him then a bike shop should take it back or exchange it and he wouldn't lose money. If he sells it second hand then he will. As you say, its a cracking bike (I have the 2009 model also) so there should be a good reason for selling it!


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## N1ck (14 Apr 2009)

I would ask for the receipt to show that it is his. Why would you sell a 2009 model bike for a lot less that it is in the shops?


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## ed_o_brain (14 Apr 2009)

Ask for the bike serial number in advance. You can pay a few quick and check that it's not been reported as stolen with a serial number checking service.

This of course, does not prove that it's not stolen.


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## snapper_37 (14 Apr 2009)

I wouldn't bother - aparrantly it only has 'thin wheel'. :?:  

Looks a dodgy ad to me.


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## Steve B (14 Apr 2009)

The 2009 Sirrus Sport is not blue either, its 'soft black' according to the specialized website. Definately need to ask for a piccy of the bike before you even make the effort to go and see it.


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## swee'pea99 (14 Apr 2009)

I'm boring on the subject of buying 2nd hand and I definitely think it's the way to go, but I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. Just doesn't smell right. Try ebay - at least you can see peoples' feedback there, and swap a few emails to gauge who you'll be dealing with.


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## MacB (14 Apr 2009)

What would happen if you turned up to buy a dodgy bike and, once suspicions verified, just took it? Even if police were summoned I'm sure your superior knowledge of bike would weigh in your favour.......just an idle thought.....even if I did that I couldn't keep it......it would just be to pee off the git that had nicked it. I suppose you could then try and trace owner etc. Hmmm am I getting all 'Robin Hood' here?


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## Sittingduck (14 Apr 2009)

I wouldn't buy a bike from an ad that uses a stock photo off the internet, as opposed to a pic of the actual bike. Tis a dodgy ad for sure!


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## Greenbread (14 Apr 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> I wouldn't buy a bike from an ad that uses a stock photo off the internet, as opposed to a pic of the actual bike. Tis a dodgy ad for sure!



I also had this thought... seems like quite the habit on Gumtree.


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## snapper_37 (15 Apr 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']I'm boring on the subject of buying 2nd hand and I definitely think it's the way to go, but I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. Just doesn't smell right. Try ebay - at least you can see peoples' feedback there, and swap a few emails to gauge who you'll be dealing with.[/quote]

I've noticed a few dodgy sellers on ebay too though. There's one bloke who was selling about 5 - 8 bikes at the same time, all *with great sadness I am selling this bike* bullsh*t. Along with the terrible spelling, they all stood out nicked like a sore thumb.

Like you say swee'pea - at least you can gauge with the tone of emails/questioning etc.


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## swee'pea99 (15 Apr 2009)

I've reported clearly dodgy ebay sellers, selling clearly stolen bikes. Ebay's response? Unless you're acting from an official position - ie, you're a policeman - we can't (ie won't) do anything.


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## Crankarm (15 Apr 2009)

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article6074448.ece

Even if you get the police involved who contact Ebay, Ebay still don't take down the auction and refuse to give details and location of the dodgy seller so you can claim your stolen item(s). The Times had a piece last saturday on stolen bikes on eBay (see above). It was only when the Times Press office called Ebay that they finally removed the auction for the stolen bike. From the Times press office calling 20 mins later the auction had been suspended. Ebay don't care a jot. All they want is their fee for the auction. The alarming thing is that people are quite happy to bid on stuff including bikes that are obviously stolen. I ask the seller when and where the purchase was made, any or original receipt, frame number and reason for the sale. I also ask a technical question that any half decent cyclist would know. As you would expect I don't often receive a response but when I do it is really dodgy such as no technical knowledge of their bike, an injury or bought from a friend at work - no receipt available on a 2009 bike, clearly nicked. 

Caveat Emptor


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## MacB (15 Apr 2009)

Crankarm, it's an excellent point and one that I brought up years ago with a group in the golf club. There'd been a recent spate of thefts and I pointed out that was the reason I wouldn't buy clubs in small ads, the then yahoo auctions etc. Most of them had either not made the connection or, the financial savings were overcoming their better instincts. 

I really don't see how you can bemoan property theft if you're prepared to turn a blind eye to the trade in stolen goods.


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## Bodhbh (15 Apr 2009)

Crankarm said:


> The alarming thing is that people are quite happy to bid on stuff including bikes that are obviously stolen.


Yes, and the annoying thing with some of these obviously nicked bikes on eBay, a fair amout of people smell a rat and stay clear, meaning some scuzzball who doesn't care this might have been someones pride and joy goes and picks up a bargin.


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## snapper_37 (15 Apr 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']I've reported clearly dodgy ebay sellers, selling clearly stolen bikes. Ebay's response? Unless you're acting from an official position - ie, you're a policeman - we can't (ie won't) do anything.[/quote]

They like their fees too much


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## Banjo (15 Apr 2009)

MacBludgeon said:


> Crankarm, it's an excellent point and one that I brought up years ago with a group in the golf club. There'd been a recent spate of thefts and I pointed out that was the reason I wouldn't buy clubs in small ads, the then yahoo auctions etc. Most of them had either not made the connection or, the financial savings were overcoming their better instincts.
> 
> I really don't see how you can bemoan property theft if you're prepared to turn a blind eye to the trade in stolen goods.



Absolutely agree. I cant stand hypocrites who present themselves as decent and honest but dont mind a dodgy bargain. In my opinion they are worse than the original thief.


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## Crankarm (15 Apr 2009)

Bodhbh said:


> Yes, and the annoying thing with some of these obviously nicked bikes on eBay, a fair amout of people smell a rat and stay clear, meaning some scuzzball who doesn't care this might have been someones pride and joy goes and picks up a bargin.



They don't pick up a bargain as you put it. What they pick up and pay money for is a stolen bike and should the rightful owner get eBay to get their act together, they can then go and collect their bike which is legally theirs from the new 'owner'. Meaning that the scuzzball as you put it then has to hand back the bike which is not his/hers to the legal owner and loses out whatever they paid the thief via eBay for it. The bike is legally the property of the person from whom it was stolen. This does not cease because it has been stolen and sold on. That is why it is so important to record the frame number and use any other anti theft detection systems. For if you saw your bike on eBay and could identify it eBay could also be guilty of aiding and abetting the sale and handling of stolen goods. If you buy a car that has been stolen and the legal owner subsequently traces it to you, you lose out not to the original owner but to the thief who you paid your money to as it is he or she who has your money . So there are two victims in a sale of stolen goods . The only winners are the thief if they don’t get caught and eBay.


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## Crankarm (15 Apr 2009)

Also if you purchased items that were obviously stolen ignoring all opportunities to try to establish their true provenance and knowingly obtaining them for a ridiculously low price whilst being aware of their true market value then you could also be accused of handling stolen goods if they were later found to be stolen .


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## MacB (16 Apr 2009)

I've actually heard people talking about bargains they've had in terms of, 'I know it's knock of so no warranties etc, but at that price it's worth the risk'. So their concerns are around warranties and comebacks, nada re the support they're giving to the thieves.


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## swee'pea99 (16 Apr 2009)

We all know there are lowlifes around and always have been, who like a bargain and 'ask no questions'. What really surprised me was that when I pointed out to ebay a guy who had listed something like 30 bikes - all late model easily 'sellable' hybrids - over the last three or four weeks, several with 'personal details' ('it's got a slight mark on the paintwork where my lock used to be'), and three or four on sale at the time - all with the trademark 'CASH ON COLLECTION ONLY' in red, they just didn't want to know. As an earlier poster says, it was clear that as long as they got their fees, they really didn't give a shoot. 

You expect blatantly scuzzy behaviour from individual scrotes, but from a major listed corporation? I was genuinely surprised - and remain so.


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## Greenbread (16 Apr 2009)

It's quite tricky now because you can list an item for free on ebay if you start the bidding at 99p.

Then it can be quite trickier to spot a quick sell from someone who knows the bid will pick up after a few competitive bids.

Also, some people want cash on collection to avoid the paypal charges. After shelling out to ebay and paypal you lose out quite a bit.


I find it easy to spot a genuine seller from the detailed description. It's not just a copy and paste job from Evans. One guy wants to sell me a bike but doesn't know the frame size!


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## Bodhbh (16 Apr 2009)

Crankarm said:


> They don't pick up a bargain as you put it. What they pick up and pay money for is a stolen bike and should the rightful owner get eBay to get their act together, they can then go and collect their bike which is legally theirs from the new 'owner'. Meaning that the scuzzball as you put it then has to hand back the bike which is not his/hers to the legal owner and loses out whatever they paid the thief via eBay for it. The bike is legally the property of the person from whom it was stolen.


Well scuzzball is not the right term for someone who innocently bids on a nicked bike without knowing it's value and suspecting it's stolen. But I'm sure many do and know 100% it's nicked, or just 'prefer not to think about it too much'.

I wonder in reality what the chances are of the stolen bike been identified and handed back to the owner. I would think quite low, although maybe not as I suppose if you're bike gets nicked the 1st place you'll check is eBay.

I been trying and failing to Google a psychology study I dimly recall, which showed people were on average willing to pay a higher price for 2nd hand goods they believed to be stolen as they thought they were likely to be a better bargain. Human nature :/


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## Crankarm (16 Apr 2009)

Bodhbh said:


> Well scuzzball is not the right term for someone who innocently bids on a nicked bike without knowing it's value and suspecting it's stolen.



So what is the right term? Suspecting an item is stolen should be sufficient for you not to bid (unless you are the legal owner of course).
Certainly sufficient to be guilty of handling stolen goods.






Bodhbh said:


> But I'm sure many do and know 100% it's nicked, or just 'prefer not to think about it too much'.



Pretending ignorance or turning a blind eye is no defence, still handling stolen goods which is a criminal offence.



Bodhbh said:


> I wonder in reality what the chances are of the stolen bike been identified and handed back to the owner. I would think quite low, although maybe not as I suppose if you're bike gets nicked the 1st place you'll check is eBay.



You're probably right. But where a stolen bike or property is placed on eBay, eBay themselves could do so much more as could the police. But to be fair to the police the few cases I have heard where they have got involved eBay have been very unco-operative and the police have limited time and resources. Cycle theft is just not high on their list of priorities. One way is to bid on the item you believe to be your stolen item, win, then go and collect it and enlist the support of your local police. This has happened. A chap who had his garage broken into and all his Snap-on tools stolen saw them on eBay. He had marked them as well. He bid, he won, he went round to the seller to collect them backed up by his local police.



Bodhbh said:


> I been trying and failing to Google a psychology study I dimly recall, which showed people were on average willing to pay a higher price for 2nd hand goods they believed to be stolen as they thought they were likely to be a better bargain. Human nature :/



Uhh!?  Why if someone believed items to be stolen would they pay a higher price for them?


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