# Payment issue with tradesperson.



## Kingfisher101 (20 Nov 2021)

What would you have done in this situation? I'm just having a job done. the plumber has removed toilet and bath, then the joiner was doing me a new floor and joists. The tiler was supposed to be coming immediately after the floor was completed to board the floor and tile and the toilet and bath were going back in today. The tiler was asking all Friday morning when would the floor be finished, the joiner said he couldn't give an exact time because it was a big job and he didn't know exactly. The tiler arranged with the plumber to basically tile the floor on Sunday instead. The toilet will be on an isolation valve so it can be taken in and out buy the tiler. The plumber agreed to plum in the bath and toilet today and then do the final screw in of the toilet on Monday.
Right, so the plumber did his bit today and I said I'd pay after you finish on Monday. He said he wanted to be paid today as previously arranged, I said yes but the job has changed and I'd pay him on Monday. He said it wasn't his fault the tiler messed around, I said it wasn't mine etc either. He said he was doing me an extra visit at no extra cost. I explained I'd rather pay extra for the visit on Monday and pay on completion. That's how it was left and he wasn't very pleased.He was saying he had to pay the supplier etc. I said tell them you will pay on Monday.
I've been burned loads of times by tradespeople not coming back when they said they would. Would you have paid or did I do right to say payment on total completion? I will pay him definitely. Its been very difficult without a bathroom and toilet as well.


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## Sittingduck (20 Nov 2021)

Could you have come to a compromise and paid for some of the work now and paid the rest upon full completion? Not sure what I would do in that situation to be honest but I can see it from the plumber's side if they were depending on receiving payment at a certain date that has now slipped through no fault of their own. Hopefully it will all work out fine though and just another few days before everybody is happy.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Nov 2021)

Pay him for work done so far, it's not his fault the job changed so why should be without the cashflow.

You may have burned by tradespeople before but believe it, he's been burned by clients before


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## Kingfisher101 (20 Nov 2021)

I can see it from both sides. I'm paying him on Monday with the extra. Hes not getting burned and I'm not getting let down either.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Nov 2021)

Can you? Perhaps he was relying on the cashflow for diesel in his van, paying a supplier bill or an oil topup for his house to keep the kids warm.

You've made an agreement to pay him, it should be honoured.


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## Profpointy (20 Nov 2021)

Agree - it's fair and reasonable to pay for what's done so far. Years ago we had a big extension built and the agreement was each month a % complete was written down for each item in the job and we paid up to that amount. Neither us nor the builders were likely to quibble whether this or that window was 50 or 60% complete but overall we'd not overpaid thus nor was the builder out of pocket or with a cashflow problem for work and materials expended. 

Same principle for smaller jobs. Pay the guy half, 2/3, 80% or whatever's about fair and everyone should be happy


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## Kingfisher101 (20 Nov 2021)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Can you? Perhaps he was relying on the cashflow for diesel in his van, paying a supplier bill or an oil topup for his house to keep the kids warm.
> 
> You've made an agreement to pay him, it should be honoured.


No because he hasnt done the work that was initially agreed. That was neither of ours fault.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Nov 2021)

Yet you're blaming him by not providing payment


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## Kingfisher101 (20 Nov 2021)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yet you're blaming him by not providing payment


 No I'm not paying anyone for work thats not been done for whatever reason. Full stop.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Nov 2021)

Pay today by cheque ?


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## kynikos (20 Nov 2021)

Except it was (someone's fault) - you failed to properly schedule the other contractors to enable the plumber to complete the work on the day you agreed with him.

Goodwill counts for a lot; don't expect him to come rushing back if you have a problem a few weeks down the line.


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## CXRAndy (20 Nov 2021)

It always becomes an issue when different trades try to follow on immediately after each other. There are always hiccups, rarely does it all fall into place. 

Personally I prefer to do certain jobs myself, taking my time and getting the next trade in a few days later.

To sort this situation.

Pay him 70% of the job, so he can settle his commitments and the rest on completion. Ring him up tonight, telling him you feel bad amd would like to agree to pay most of the bill now-it will help if you ever need further work


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## oldwheels (20 Nov 2021)

Stage payments always seems sensible to me. 
Coordination of various tradesmen is a nightmare as we found when getting a complete bathroom renovation. We paid for materials as soon as they were on site as it assists cashflow but labour was only paid when the job was complete.


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## Cycleops (20 Nov 2021)

Things never go as scheduled where one trade follows another. He should well understand that and be happy with stage payment.


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## Slick (20 Nov 2021)

I assume he was acting as principal contractor, meaning he is responsible for all and any delays.

I think you were right not to pay although he really should have arranged staged payments before he started work. 

His main fight should be with the tiler though.


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## Cycleops (20 Nov 2021)

Slick said:


> His main fight should be with the tiler though.


So it's pipe wrench and tile cutter at dawn then.


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## Beebo (20 Nov 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> No I'm not paying anyone for work thats not been done for whatever reason. Full stop.


Work has been done. 
Not all of it, but maybe 50% would be a sensible compromise. 
There has to be trust from both sides in these business relationships. With the job half done and materials bought he has far more to lose than you.


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## Slick (20 Nov 2021)

50% of the work is of no use to anyone and therefore should not always be met with 50% payment.

Obviously it depends on the type of job but it is far too easy to take the cream off a job and leave a trusting client high and dry.


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## Kingfisher101 (20 Nov 2021)

kynikos said:


> Except it was (someone's fault) - you failed to properly schedule the other contractors to enable the plumber to complete the work on the day you agreed with him.
> 
> Goodwill counts for a lot; don't expect him to come rushing back if you have a problem a few weeks down the line.


You have clearly misunderstood the situation. I didn't know how long the joiner would take as I don't have a crystal ball and he didn't know either as it wouldn't become clear until he got fully into the job. The tiler said he would come as soon as the job was finished full stop.It wasnt a job he could rush, its not like whitewashing a wall.
Its very very rare that a tradesperson returns to any job after money has been paid in the event of problems. I know that much from experience.
Thanks for everyone's opinions and taking the time to reply.


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## Colin Grigson (21 Nov 2021)

I think a payment of 50% now, as a gesture of goodwill, with the balance on completion should satisfy both parties. He can pay suppliers/refuel his vehicle/feed his family whilst you retain the incentive for him to return as promised.


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## carpiste (21 Nov 2021)

These guys are all in the building trade, they know the score. Job gets done, they get paid. They are the ones who have to make allowances in any delays, it`s normal and they should be able to cover easily for just a few days! You did right.


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## MontyVeda (21 Nov 2021)

carpiste said:


> These guys are all in the building trade, they know the score. Job gets done, they get paid. They are the ones who have to make allowances in any delays, it`s normal and they should be able to cover easily for just a few days! You did right.


quite... all this hypothetical nonsense about being unable to refuel his van or feed his family unless the OP pays up is ridiculous!


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## Kingfisher101 (21 Nov 2021)

The Plumber has agreed Monday evening is fine now for completion and payment.


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## Slick (21 Nov 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> The Plumber has agreed Monday evening is fine now for completion and payment.


Is he on CC?


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## kynikos (21 Nov 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> You have clearly misunderstood the situation.



Clearly?



Kingfisher101 said:


> He said he wanted to be paid today *as previously arranged*...


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## Kingfisher101 (21 Nov 2021)

kynikos said:


> Clearly?



Never mind.


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## Kingfisher101 (22 Nov 2021)

The plumber has now been paid.


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