# A lesson from a coach driver...



## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

My reasons for not using the cycle lane in this video are contained within the video itself. 

The driver of this coach disagrees with them and decided to teach me where I should be by trying to force me left with the end of his coach.

I initially though the overtake from this coach was going to be fine, but he slowed as he passed me and swung his rear end towards me. I could easily have placed my palm on the back of his coach.

I think a wee e-mail will be heading to the coach company. B)


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## summerdays (16 Mar 2010)

Something goes wrong for me 42 secs into the video... so I never get past that point.


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## darthpaul (16 Mar 2010)

I hope they take it seriously to, sure you should use a cycle lane if its fit to do so but there is no law that means you must if its full of crap and potholes. The driver is a tool!


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

darthpaul said:


> I hope they take it seriously to, sure you should use a cycle lane if its fit to do so but there is no law that means you must if its full of crap and potholes. The driver is a tool!




Aye the lane actually makes that road more dangerous to cycle on. If your in it, you are more likely to slip (at the speed I travel at, and on the thinner tyres), but if you stay out of it, you get more abuse.B)


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Actually I just re-read your post darthpaul, there is nothing to say I should use the lane, even if it is well designed!


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## Cab (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Actually I just re-read your post darthpaul, there is nothing to say I should use the lane, even if it is well designed!



Other than sense, of course. If the cycle lane is clear, well designed, well constructed and going where you want, the only thing telling you to use it is common sense.

Be sure to let us all know if you EVER encounter a lane like that in the UK...


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Cab said:


> Other than sense, of course. If the cycle lane is clear, well designed, well constructed and going where you want, the only thing telling you to use it is common sense.
> 
> Be sure to let us all know if you EVER encounter a lane like that in the UK...




Aye indeed. I wasn't saying I wouldn't use it, just that you don't actually have to (with the odd exception).


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## Origamist (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Aye the lane actually makes that road more dangerous to cycle on. If your in it, you are more likely to slip (at the speed I travel at, and on the thinner tyres), but if you stay out of it, you get more abuse.B)



It was a close pass and poor overtake - but if you're riding to the right of a lane that wide (a no man's land between primary and secondary) and a wide vehicle is going to overtake with oncoming traffic in the opposing lane, you've got to move left if you want to avoid a close overtake.


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## darthpaul (16 Mar 2010)

Yeah I wasnt implying you must just with common sense B)


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## Jezston (16 Mar 2010)

summerdays said:


> Something goes wrong for me 42 secs into the video... so I never get past that point.



I get that at 35 secs. Won't play further. Crashed my browser at one point. Weird.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> It was a close pass and poor overtake - but if you're riding to the right of a lane that wide (a no man's land between primary and secondary) and a wide vehicle is going to overtake with oncoming traffic in the opposing lane, you've got to move left if you want to avoid a close overtake.




Origamist, as I noticed him passing I do actually move left. You should be able to see that on the video.


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## fossyant (16 Mar 2010)

Flippin' eck......fair bit of a turn of speed there to catch him back up...... B)


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## Origamist (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Origamist, as I noticed him passing I do actually move left. You should be able to see that on the video.



I did see you move, but it's only by a few inches! If you're going to be passed by a wide, long and heavy vehicle, get yourself out of harms way by feet not inches. In that situation the real threat is the coach and not a deviation into the cycle lane.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> I did see you move, but it's only by a few inches! If you're going to be passed, get yourself out of harms way by feet not inches. In that situation the real threat is the coach, not the cycle lane.




Aye, but as I said, I thought the overtake was going to be fine until the last minute. He caught me out. It was one of those situation where, because you are staring at the object, you don't seem to move away from it, as you should.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

sorry and i'm not being provocative, but why is the cycle lane unusable? it seems from the camera to be in better condition than some of the main roads around my way. if this is a regular route would it not be easier to get chunkier marathon+ tires than to risk being knocked off? if you are going to cycle in that poor road position perhaps a mirror would be useful. i didn't listen to the exchange between you and the bus driver.


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## Origamist (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Aye, but as I said, I thought the overtake was going to be fine until the last minute. He caught me out. It was one of those situation where, because you are staring at the object, you don't seem to move away from it, as you should.



The road is bending to the right - hence why the rear of the coach nearly catches you as the driver prepares for the bend. You need to work on your hazard perception, Mags. 

Seriously though, in those sitautions you have to facilitate a poor overtake. I deviate left pretty hard when I know a large vehicle is coming - that's what the buffer to your left is there for...


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry and i'm not being provocative, but why is the cycle lane unusable? it seems from the camera to be in better condition than some of the main roads around my way. if this is a regular route would it not be easier to get chunkier marathon+ tires than to risk being knocked off? if you are going to cycle in that poor road position perhaps a mirror would be useful. i didn't listen to the exchange between you and the bus driver.



I've been meaning to do a video on this cycle lane. You don't see all of its 'features' in this video.

I mention my reasoning in the video. It is possibly suitable for mountain bike tyres but not for road tyres, and this is a road, so I don't think it is unreasonable to use road tyres here!

My road position is a bit of a compromise, i.e. not in the cycle lane, but not in a true secondary either. If I was further out I know I would get more hassle on this road, and generally my position up to a foot outside the lane appears to have the desired effect of drivers giving me enough room. This idiot just wanted to make a point.

As I have mentioned before, this road would actually be easier and safer to cycle on without the cycle lane, IMO.


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## dodgy (16 Mar 2010)

Possiby the video quality does make the road surface look better than it is, but it looked better than the roads I ride everyday with 120psi racing slicks.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> The road is bending to the right - hence why the rear of the coach nearly catches you as prepares and starts to turn. You need to work on your hazard perception, Mags.
> 
> Seriously though, in those sitautions you have to facilitate a poor overtake. I deviate left pretty hard when I know a large vehicle is coming - that's what the buffer to your left is there for...



Ah, but in general larger vehicles tend to give me more room, and so I find that I need to use my buffer less. Not on this occasion though. 

Do you really deviate to the left every time a large vehicle overtakes you?


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## Origamist (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ah, but in general larger vehicles tend to give me more room, and so I find that I need to use my buffer less. Not on this occasion though.
> 
> Do you really deviate to the left every time a large vehicle overtakes you?



About 90% of the time.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

dodgy said:


> Possiby the video quality does make the road surface look better than it is, but it looked better than the roads I ride everyday with 120psi racing slicks.




If you pause the video at 36-37 seconds (when I am looking down) you can see the two different colours of the cycle lane. To the outside of the lane (right) it looks redder than the inside, browny red. This is because of a layer of grime, and muck on the inside of the lane. I'd rather avoid that thanks! Watch the brown layer as I ride along it varies in it's width and in places takes up the whole lane. My speed along this section (where the lane is) varies between approximately 14-25mph, probably averaging about 18-19mph.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> About 90% of the time.


Admit it, your deviation is a wobble! B)


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## addictfreak (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry and i'm not being provocative, but why is the cycle lane unusable? it seems from the camera to be in better condition than some of the main roads around my way. if this is a regular route would it not be easier to get chunkier marathon+ tires than to risk being knocked off? if you are going to cycle in that poor road position perhaps a mirror would be useful. i didn't listen to the exchange between you and the bus driver.




I was kind of asking myself that too.

Close to the kerb you can clearly see mud and other debris. But from what I could see from the video, I would have been in the cycle lane but close to the white line. Maybe the video doesnt show the full picture.

Anyway whether you were in lane or not it certainly does not give him the right to bully you on the road. So im with you on that.
I would question if the second incident was actually a deliberate block. When he passed you he was in the RH lane and you in the LH lane. He passes and then stops in traffic further along (still in RH lane) albeit to the left of his lane. I dont think he was bright enough to anticipate that you would come down the middle.
But again thats just my reading of it.

One more question. Are you just the most un lucky man in Scotland or has someone put out a contract on you?B)


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> I was kind of asking myself that too.
> 
> Close to the kerb you can clearly see mud and other debris. But from what I could see from the video, I would have been in the cycle lane but close to the white line. Maybe the video doesnt show the full picture.
> 
> ...



I am certain it was a block. It's not obvious from the video, but he slowed and then pulled over to the left slightly. Look at where his front wheels are in relation to the back wheels.

As for unlucky... I've just had a couple of incidents in a row. It happens. No-one ever comments when I don't post incidents for a while!


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## thomas (16 Mar 2010)

I don't really get that reaction. If I saw someone doing something wrong (in my mind) I wouldn't then drive/cycle in a way which is just going to cause more conflict. It doesn't matter who is "right".

I don't blame you for not using the cycle lane. I dislike them because of this sort of thing.

I can see why the coach driver got annoyed, but it's just complete ignorance and lack of patience. Not at all your fault.

At the end he was just playing the prat. Trying to scare you by pulling along side. I'd of been nervous that he'd pull in and try to hit me then.

Definitely worth an email to his company. He needs to be made aware of why cyclists may choose not the use cycle lanes and that as a 'professional' driver he may have to adjust his driving even if people are doing something wrong (which you weren't...just he seems to have a very black/white attitude about right and wrong).


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> I was kind of asking myself that too.
> 
> Close to the kerb you can clearly see mud and other debris. But from what I could see from the video, I would have been in the cycle lane but close to the white line. Maybe the video doesnt show the full picture.



Forgot to add, look at the lane at about 1 minute just after the bus have overtaken me. The usable lane (without grime and muck is very thin at that point!)


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## Bruce (16 Mar 2010)

I love these type of posts, "I was riding like an idiot and got myself in trouble, its everyone else's fault Boo Hoo"

I think enough previous posters have said enough you brought this upon yourself, He wasnt that close either so the "danger" was marginal, and you had the escaape of moving from your poor riding position to the left if it was that dangerous. I note you dont mention your flouting of the highway by filtering through the middle of the traffic, maybe some of those motorists thought you were to close to them!


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## thomas (16 Mar 2010)

Bruce said:


> I note you dont mention your flouting of the highway by filtering through the middle of the traffic, maybe some of those motorists thought you were to close to them!



Filtering isn't illegal. I possibly wouldn't have overtaken the Corsa at 2.20....just waited behind till past the coach. Not a major thing though 

As for Mags being too close...there's a difference between a cyclist overtaking a (more or less) stationary car at 1 foot away, than a MASSIVE coach overtaking at a few feet at a reasonable speed.

@Mags: If the cycle path was clean, would you use it for the most part (other than maybe at the odd pinch point?). If so maybe try and get the council to clean it? Wouldn't take much to run a road sweep vehicle down it...


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Bruce said:


> I love these type of posts, "I was riding like an idiot and got myself in trouble, its everyone else's fault Boo Hoo"
> 
> I think enough previous posters have said enough you brought this upon yourself, He wasnt that close either so the "danger" was marginal, and you had the escaape of moving from your poor riding position to the left if it was that dangerous. I note you dont mention your flouting of the highway by filtering through the middle of the traffic, maybe some of those motorists thought you were to close to them!




LOL! 

I love these posts! Yes it was my fault, of course it was. I made him overtake me and pull into me, and yes, within easy touching distance is a safe distance for a bus to overtake a cyclist. Apologies.

And yes, you are right I was flouting the law, as it clearly states in the Highway Code that filtering through stationary or slow moving traffic is not allowed....oh wait a minute...it doesn't actually say that. never mind. Lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant!


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## 4F (16 Mar 2010)

Cab said:


> Other than sense, of course. If the cycle lane is clear, well designed, well constructed and going where you want, the only thing telling you to use it is common sense.
> 
> Be sure to let us all know if you EVER encounter a lane like that in the UK...



Couple of really good ones in Ipswich along with the majority of badly designed unusable ones.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

i have watched it again, i just don't get it. it just doesn't seem that close to me, perhaps traffic round my way passes closer than normal and i am just used to it. it seems from the video clip that to pass as you would have liked, he would have had to wait for approx 1 mile, even then the oncoming bus would have stopped it. as to blocking you a second time, i really can't see that either and the other cyclist has no problems with it. and i still don't see why you could not be on the inside of the white cycle lane dividing line. again i'm not being argumental but i really don't see any issues.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

thomas said:


> Filtering isn't illegal. I possibly wouldn't have overtaken the Corsa at 2.20....just waited behind till past the coach. Not a major thing though
> 
> As for Mags being too close...there's a difference between a cyclist overtaking a (more or less) stationary car at 1 foot away, than a MASSIVE coach overtaking at a few feet at a reasonable speed.
> 
> @Mags: If the cycle path was clean, would you use it for the most part (other than maybe at the odd pinch point?). If so maybe try and get the council to clean it? Wouldn't take much to run a road sweep vehicle down it...




Actually there are a few sections that I do use but not many. I'll explain more when I get around to doing a video on the lane. Certain sections of it are really badly designed.


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2010)

Bruce is not very good on the highway code, as it does actually mention filtering.


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## thomas (16 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Believe, the arse end of the coach is very close to the OP.



Yeah, it looked like he had to slow for the corner too and when turning it did come quite close.


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## Bruce (16 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Bruce is not very good on the highway code, as it does actually mention filtering.




Have another wild uneducated guess. I wont say what my pre requisites and qualification for knowing that undertaking is incorrect are, however you carrying on kidding yourself BentBoy


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

Bruce said:


> Have another wild uneducated guess. I wont say what my pre requisites and qualification for knowing that undertaking is incorrect are, however you carrying on kidding yourself BentBoy




Ah, but you seem to have a problem telling the difference between undertaking and filtering....


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2010)

Since you are so good at the highway code - show us where it says that it is illegal to filter on two-wheelers. While you're at it you can also quote the rules where filtering is mentioned.


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## 4F (16 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> quote the rules where filtering is mentioned.



I can 
*88*

Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. *Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low*.


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## potsy (16 Mar 2010)

4F said:


> I can
> *88*
> 
> Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. *Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low*.


That section of the HC was obviously missing from Bruce's copy


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## Landslide (16 Mar 2010)

For 4F:


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

*67*

You should


look all around before moving away from the kerb, turning or manoeuvring, to make sure it is safe to do so. Give a clear signal to show other road users what you intend to do (see 'Signals to other road users')
look well ahead for obstructions in the road, such as drains, pot-holes and parked vehicles so that you do not have to swerve suddenly to avoid them. Leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles and watch out for doors being opened or pedestrians stepping into your path
*be aware of traffic coming up behind you*
take extra care near road humps, narrowings and other traffic calming features
take care when overtaking (see Rules 162-169)


also relevant in the op situation


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

the highway code is on line at the direct.gov.uk website, just in case no one knew


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## Crackle (16 Mar 2010)

Can we just have a condensed video of all you swearing and cussing please, that's my favourite part. 

I think you got caught in no man's land there Maggers. When he opened the door you should have calmly asked him in response to his cycle lane observation, "Do you know why I'm not in the cycle lane?". Maybe your explanation might have filtered in later.


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## Cab (16 Mar 2010)

Seems to me that whether Mag should be outside of the cycle lane or not (and it is fair to be there), it isn't reasonable to overtake too closely. And that overtake was too close. 

If the large vehicle can't pass without passing closely, then it _can't pass_. Surely its that simple?


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## addictfreak (16 Mar 2010)

As we are quoting from the HC, this is one the coach driver should read:

*61*

Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Use cycle routes, advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings unless at the time it is unsafe to do so. Use of these facilities is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

sorry but the op made the choice not to use that particular part of the cycleway thru choice (didn't want to get his bike dirty), which was inconsiderate of other road users and therefore this comes into consideration.

*66*

You should


keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
keep both feet on the pedals
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
not ride close behind another vehicle
not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
*be considerate of other road users*, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted


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## 4F (16 Mar 2010)

Oh come on bromptonfb I am not going to let you get away with that one

*63*

Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway (see Rule 140). Keep within the lane when practicable. When leaving a cycle lane check before pulling out that it is safe to do so and signal your intention clearly to other road users. *Use of cycle lanes is not compulsory* and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer


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## addictfreak (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry but the op made the choice not to use that particular part of the cycleway thru choice *(didn't want to get his bike dirty),* which was inconsiderate of other road users and therefore this comes into consideration.
> 
> *66*
> 
> ...




I dont think its just a case of not wanting to get his bike dirty. I often avoid cycle lanes when they are in that state. Not because of the dirt, but because of all the other crap in there, and the increased chance of punctures.

There is still no excuse for the driver to bully him because he does not agree with mags road position.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

sorry, but as i and others have said, the cycle lane looks on the camera perfectly useable.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

how was he bullied?


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## Cab (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry but the op made the choice not to use that particular part of the cycleway thru choice (didn't want to get his bike dirty), which was inconsiderate of other road users and therefore this comes into consideration.



No it doesn't. If someone in front of you is doing something wrong (he wasn't, but lets go with that for the moment) and you then do something that endangers them, then you're still at fault. Being in the wrong place on the road doesn't, even a little bit, make it okay to endanger them. Their safety doesn't become somehow less important because you think they're inconveniencing you.


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## Cab (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry, but as i and others have said, the cycle lane looks on the camera perfectly useable.



Irrelevant.


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## addictfreak (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> how was he bullied?



By pulling in and cutting him up, which by the drivers reaction when mags spoke to him, sounded to me as if it was intentional.

Are you saying the driver was right to react as he did, just because mags was outside the cycle lane?


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## addictfreak (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry, but as i and others have said, the cycle lane looks on the camera perfectly useable.



I hold my hands up to that too, it looked very crappy near the kerb. And would probably have rode just to the left of broken white line. 
But I was not there.


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## 4F (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> sorry, but as i and others have said, the cycle lane looks on the camera perfectly useable.



I have to say that I actually agree but was not going to let you get away with that earlier comment.

Personally I would have positioned myself in the cycle lane slightly to the left of the white line and if the cycle lane was full of stones / rubbish etc then I would have moved across to the right hand side after first checking over my shoulder.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

as i see it, he did not pull in or cut him up, he was following the road. cutting him up a second time, i really don't see any movement from the coach. the other cyclist was ok. if anyone was bullying it was the confrontational argument that followed the op demanding from an old man that the coach door be opened. don't get me wrong, a few more feet would have been better.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> as i see it, he did not pull in or cut him up, he was following the road. cutting him up a second time, i really don't see any movement from the coach. the other cyclist was ok. if anyone was bullying it was the confrontational argument that followed the op demanding from an old man that the coach door be opened. don't get me wrong, a few more feet would have been better.




Let me ask you this bromtonfb, and please answer it honestly. If the driver was taking a driving test (or the equivalent PSV test) would he pass his test having conducted such a manouver?

Your scraping the barrel with your comment about getting my bike dirty. I can assure you it is already dirty. I have a number of reasons for not using that cycle lane, as mentioned on the video and there are a couple of others, that when I get a chance I will demonstrate with a video. 

Now if the driver did not cut me up, why did he reply when confronted with, you should be in the cycle lane'. Is this not a strong indicator of his frame of mind at this point? Had he not cut me up surely his reply would be '...cut you up? No I didn't....'


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2010)

I think your reasons for not using that cycle lane are a little weak at best. On the other hand, it's your choice, and you were perfectly legit on being in the road. That also doesn't excuse the coach driver's bad driving and poor attitude.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

i withdraw the dirty bike comment, i do tend to get drawn into arguments. sorry about that. now the blokes reaction was just typical of most people in fight or flight mode, that is to be confrontational / defensive back. i have not said he was right. it was tight, but, in my honest opinion based on the youtube video; i just think he was fitting thru a gap of you and on coming traffic. just as he nearly passed you the road veered right and there was further on coming traffic. i honestly think it was just a misjudged overtake. to be fair he did leave you room, i.e., you could have moved left to help him out. the second supposed cut up, i honestly cannot see it. please tell me what time shows when this happens. with regards to stopping and demanding with menace that the doors be opened, well tbh with that aggressive attitude, he is not likely to be nice is he?


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2010)

If you can excuse the driver's aggressive fight/flight reaction, then why can't you excuse the same reaction from Magnatom after the coach driver risked his life?


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## hillrep (16 Mar 2010)

Bromptonfp said


> sorry, but as i and others have said, the cycle lane looks on the camera perfectly useable.


I feel nervous about adding to the plethora of opinions on this particular cycle lane, but as someone who regularly travels the same road I feel I should add in some actual facts to the all the speculation .

The cycle lane is narrow, slippery with muck, and with many drain covers etc. The red paint has been carefully laid so that there is a ridge across the lane every few metres, it is like cycling along a rumble strip! The white line at the edge of the lane is, of course, much more slippery than the tarmac. 
The lane also narrows varies in width from too narrow to far too narrow and stops abruptly at the back of a (perfectly legally) parked car.

To cycle in the lane is both dangerous and unpleasant.

To cycle on the white line is both dangerous and unpleasant.

Hmm, where should I cycle then....


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> If you can excuse the driver's aggressive fight/flight reaction, then why can't you excuse the same reaction from Magnatom after *the coach driver risked his life?*



ott?

if we all got upset by every time a moton did something we didn't agree with we would be very stressed and there would be a lot of people in prison (and i am one of the stressed out cyclists who is trying to chill out ( i was a lot worse as a moton)). i just think it was a genuine misjudged overtake. that's all. i think that if magnatom slowed his average mph down a bit, realized that roads are not his own personal race tracks for personal best time trial attempts, looked around a lot more (or had a mirror) and took a little more considerate road position he may not have as many near misses. sorry mags, but you do have an awful lot don't you? please note tho this is my opinion based on youtube videos i have seen posted by you.


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2010)

My point is that it's not very fair of you to excuse the coach drives reaction, but not excuse magnatom's. Tut tut!

I must admit I'm tired of seeing how magnatom has so many "close calls". B0ll0cks he does. And why should he have to slow down? I don't think he's slow, but he's not exceptionally fast either. His speed is entirely irrelevant to most of the incidents I've seen in his videos.


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## Debian (16 Mar 2010)

I post in defence of not always using cycle lanes.

There's one in particular near me, it's on my route home. It's a standard red painted lane about a metre wide on an uphill stretch of fairly main road that has several pinch points by way of keep left islands.

I never use it, instead I cycle to the right of the white line. At first glance one might think it's OK, that's certainly the impression of some of the drivers who pass me making their displeasure clear. On a video it would probably look to be an OK lane to use. However, on close inspection it is always covered in a thin layer of loose gravelly chippings and other small-sized bits of rubbish that gets chucked over by car wheels. It's not a safe surface to cycle on but as I say that may not be obvious to a passing motorist or if on video.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> My point is that it's not very fair of you to excuse the coach drives reaction, but not excuse magnatom's. Tut tut!
> 
> I must admit I'm tired of seeing how magnatom has so many "close calls". B0ll0cks he does. And why should he have to slow down? I don't think he's slow, but he's not exceptionally fast either. His speed is entirely irrelevant to most of the incidents I've seen in his videos.



i don't think i made my point correctly. on his videos, he appears not to look around him very often and be concentrating on going tits out. again i have not ridden with him and i am only going off his close call video list. when i learnt to drive and i can drive quite a lot of things thanks to the army, i was always taught to be aware of what is behind me. remember this? mirror, signal, maneuver. i used to ride without looking about which didn't cause me any problems on quiet night roads but now i ride in the city i always look about, there is a lot vehicles fighting for the same road space. 

i'm not condoning anyones behavior. but would the driver have had a bad attitude if mags hadn't demanded the doors being opened?


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

hillrep said:


> Bromptonfp said I feel nervous about adding to the plethora of opinions on this particular cycle lane, but as someone who regularly travels the same road I feel I should add in some actual facts to the all the speculation .
> 
> The cycle lane is narrow, slippery with muck, and with many drain covers etc. The red paint has been carefully laid so that there is a ridge across the lane every few metres, it is like cycling along a rumble strip! The white line at the edge of the lane is, of course, much more slippery than the tarmac.
> The lane also narrows varies in width from too narrow to far too narrow and stops abruptly at the back of a (perfectly legally) parked car.
> ...



Thanks hillrep. It;s nice to have another person with local knowledge posting about the cycle lane. 

Did I mention the 'rumble strip effect' elsewhere. I may have omitted that. 

At the moment there is also a lot of loose stones in sections, probably from potholes. This is all fine on a mountain bike, but not particularly safe on a road bike with thin tyres.

I await someone tell me I should be doing my commute on a mountain bike then....


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Thanks hillrep. It;s nice to have another person with local knowledge posting about the cycle lane.
> 
> Did I mention the 'rumble strip effect' elsewhere. I may have omitted that.
> 
> ...



tried that once, it did feel slow in traffic.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> tried that once, it did feel slow in traffic.



Indeed. So will you conceed, that I may, just may have a legitimate reason not to use the cycle lane, considering that a completely unrelated cyclist (£5 on its way ) agrees with my assessment of the lane?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

if you think that that cycle lane is bad, you need to see the lane between bury and manchester (a56) it is much narrower than that one seems to be. it has pot holes that would swallow my brommie wheel if i let them. and we have bendy buses. perhaps you are a bit spoilt where you live? or perhaps the camera paints a prettier picture than what reality is?


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## jonny jeez (16 Mar 2010)

Mags,

I've always taken on board your comments on other’s riding styles (my own included) and have even adjusted my own style a little in light of your's (and others comments.

its all learning.

So without trying to troll or flame or whatever the techno expression is (perhaps "doing a Bruce" is more vogue), I think your position (justified or not) will cause a negative reaction from many road users.

short of buying a tee shirt with the words "I cant use the cycle lane cos its shite and dangerous" written on the back, there is no way to communicate your choice to other road sharers, and therefore they will most probably be left with the impression that you are simply cycling like an arse and look to them as if you are refusing to use the cycle lane because it is beneath you.

I appreciate that neither comment is accurate.

I see some riders refusing to use cycle lanes on my commute, but these lanes that are simply painted white lines set a long way out from the kerb, the road surface is the same as the road and they are effectively just a sectioned off part of the road....the part that a cyclist would normally ride in....but these guys refuse to ride in them for some reason.

and before you suggest it, no they are not a danger, they are well planned and well set out. When I see riders acting like that...even I get annoyed...its just cycle snobbery.

I think you have suffered because of the actions of riders like that


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> if you think that that cycle lane is bad, you need to see the lane between bury and manchester (a56) it is much narrower than that one seems to be. it has pot holes that would swallow my brommie wheel if i let them. and we have bendy buses. perhaps you are a bit spoilt where you live? or perhaps the camera paints a prettier picture than what reality is?



Ah, so you won't admit that I may, just may, have justification. Fair enough.


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## magnatom (16 Mar 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> Mags,
> 
> I've always taken on board your comments on other’s riding styles (my own included) and have even adjusted my own style a little in light of your's (and others comments.
> 
> ...




Oh, stop pussyfooting around and just tell me I'm a to$$er! 

Seriously though, yes I understand that it will irritate some road users, and I am certainly not out to do that. But that isn't my fault. That is the fault of the council who saw fit to put the poor quality lane there. If it wasn't there, there would be fewer problems on that road for all cyclists.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (16 Mar 2010)

i just don't see it, sorry mags. there is at least another 2 foot of useable road to the left. if you used it, you would of had a nicer day. are you one of the blokes who drives down the middle lane of motorways because its what the hc calls the fast lane?


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## beastie (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Thanks hillrep. It;s nice to have another person with local knowledge posting about the cycle lane.
> 
> Did I mention the 'rumble strip effect' elsewhere. I may have omitted that.
> 
> ...



I commute on a MTB with semi slick kevlar tyres with an ave speed 15.4 mph. last year I had zero p^%$£es and I ride on road, dirt path, chuckies and back on the road (in the cycle lane). Does a couple of mph matter? Well I am just waiting on the new Secteur so I can go faster.


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## 2Loose (16 Mar 2010)

I wouldn't want to venture far into that cycle lane - it looks very similar to one that I normally use, but haven't since the snow because of the amount of silt that has been pushed into it by cars in the main lane. 
I am sure a lot of rain will wash it away in good time, but after persevering with it for a week or so, arriving at work completely black up my front and back because of it (got guards now because of it ), I went to take a left turn and had my wheel lose traction. It is like riding on an inch of dirty sand. 

The driver seemed confrontational and ready for you though Mags, definitely knew he had cut you up. A simple sorry would have done a lot to smooth things over though.


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## Crankarm (16 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Oh, stop pussyfooting around and just tell me I'm a to$$er!
> 
> Seriously though, yes I understand that it will irritate some road users, and I am certainly not out to do that. But that isn't my fault. That is the fault of the council who saw fit to put the poor quality lane there. If it wasn't there, there would be fewer problems on that road for all cyclists.



Why don't you approach your local council to see if they can send a road sweeper up it? It's got to be safer than continuing to ride as you are?

I think the coach might have pulled in prematurely because of oncoming traffic. The traffic looked to be moving quite quickly in both directions. I would be inclined to duck into the cycle lane if I saw a large vehicle such as a truck or coach approaching from behind. You are not going to win in any confrontation with a large vehicle or any vehicle for that matter at speed. You are not David to a Goliath.

Anyway perhaps you will consider contacting your LA to get the cycle lane cleared up so you can cycle in it safely which has got to better than sticking yourself out into fast moving traffic.


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## hillrep (16 Mar 2010)

Crankarm said


> Why don't you approach your local council to see if they can send a road sweeper up it? It's got to be safer than continuing to ride as you are?


and


> Anyway perhaps you will consider contacting your LA to get the cycle lane cleared up so you can cycle in it safely which has got to better than sticking yourself out into fast moving traffic.



Even if the cycle lane was cleaned it would still be too narrow, potholed and like cycling on a rumble strip (yes, I have cycled on it). The phrase "polishing a t*rd" comes to mind for some reason :-).

I have approached this particular LA to ask questions like:

why is the cycle lane on the opposite side of this road directly in the "door zone" beside parking bays

or

why is it too narrow

or 

why have they put in dangerous pinch points

The answer is at best a polite variation on "_we_ think it is a good idea so its staying".

Interesting how this has drifted into the sport of mag-baiting and well away from the original incident in which a coach driver demonstrated how not to drive a coach!


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## stowie (17 Mar 2010)

I think the debate on whether Mags was correct in cycling slightly out from the cycle lane is immaterial (anyway - the lane looks narrow and crap, and he was only slightly out from the line). The first bad pass could be construed as poor driving, but the driver virtually admits he did it because mags was "in his way", and then proceeds to box him in and cut him off later on. All from a "professional" driver in charge of a large vehicle. Surely this is unacceptable, no matter whether a cyclist is doing something daft or not. A trained driver shouldn't use his vehicle as an intimidation tool, no matter what the more vulnerable user is up to.

Having said this, I suspect the driver was irritated because he couldn't barrel past Mags without moving position - something I think he would have done had Mags been in the cycle lane. Thus indicating the fact that even some "professional" drivers have scant regard for overtaking space, and that cycle lanes that are too narrow such as this one puts a cyclist in more danger, not less.

Mags- I would report him. If he hadn't carried on the intimidating driving after the poor pass, I would put it down to a poor overtake and probably forget it, but it appears the driver was more than willing to make his point with a large vehicle. Unacceptable in my book.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (17 Mar 2010)

As I stated on YT, at least with such an overtake, being outside the CL gves the CL as an option to escape into. Rather than being stuck between a vehicle and the kerb.


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## PK99 (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> My reasons for not using the cycle lane in this video are contained within the video itself.
> 
> The driver of this coach disagrees with them and decided to teach me where I should be by trying to force me left with the end of his coach.
> 
> ...




I take issue with you positioning - if you are not going to use the cycle lane then surely, you should be in primary or secondary position for the lane you occupy. the video show you "in the gutter" for the traffic lane you are in (38s in shows your exact position)


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## Cab (17 Mar 2010)

PK99 said:


> I take issue with you positioning - if you are not going to use the cycle lane then surely, you should be in primary or secondary position for the lane you occupy. the video show you "in the gutter" for the traffic lane you are in (38s in shows your exact position)



That might be a fair cricitism; its a tough call, where to be if you're not using a cycle lane. You can argue that primary position on the road doesn't change, or you an instead argue that the cycle lane creates a new 'gutter' and to be most visible you need to be in primary in the main lane. Tough judgement call, that one.

Either way, cyclist in primary, secondary or right on the gutter, its still the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to pass safely, _regardless_ of the cyclists position. And therefore to a great extent discussing the cyclists position in relation to a dangerous overtake is always a little bit of a red herring. Yes, you can be more noticeable, more in a position to make careless motorists more likely go around you properly, but all of that said it remains the fault of the overtaker if the pass is too close. 

Here, the bus passed too close. Its his fault.


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## Cab (17 Mar 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> So without trying to troll or flame or whatever the techno expression is (perhaps "doing a Bruce" is more vogue), I think your position (justified or not) will cause a negative reaction from many road users.



The problem here is that while we all know that there are many reasons why we may choose (validly) to not use the cycle lane, the moton (here I'm referring to the idiots behind the wheels of cars, not the average motorist) does not. This is why a bad cycle lane is worse than no cycle lane at all. 

When the choice becomes one of 'use a bad cycle facility or face increased aggression from a sizeable minority of motorists', there isn't a right answer. Either choice will make your journey less safe than it should be.


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## Origamist (17 Mar 2010)

Cab said:


> The problem here is that while we all know that there are many reasons why we may choose (validly) to not use the cycle lane, the moton (here I'm referring to the idiots behind the wheels of cars, not the average motorist) does not. This is why a bad cycle lane is worse than no cycle lane at all.
> 
> When the choice becomes one of 'use a bad cycle facility or face increased aggression from a sizeable minority of motorists', there isn't a right answer. Either choice will make your journey less safe than it should be.




All true. What I would add is that you need to understand the potential consequences of adopting different positions on the road relative to a cycle lane. For example, if you're riding to the right of the lane and a large vehicle is approaching from behind, you'd do well to defer to the left (assuming there was not a serious impediment) as it's often going to be a squeeze. If you're riding in the cycle lane you may well have to suck up closer overtakes as many drivers will use the cycle lane marking as a guide to how much passing space you'll be allocated etc.


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## jonny jeez (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Oh, stop pussyfooting around and just tell me I'm a to$$er!



I would never call you a tosser Mags.

However, if your guilty conscience requires a little personal flagellation, then try this on for size.

....you have, without doubt, the highest pitch, most girliest "Angry" voice of any scotsman I have ever come across.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> i just don't see it, sorry mags. there is at least another 2 foot of useable road to the left. if you used it, you would of had a nicer day. are you one of the blokes who drives down the middle lane of motorways because its what the hc calls the fast lane?




Yet another wild claim about me. I don't think it is my cycling you don't like, I think it is me.

Why don't you do a search on cyclechat to see what my view are on middle lane driving. I'm sure I've made a comment before.

I've intentionally not linked to another thread I posted a while back, until now. I thought I would let this run on its own merits first. However, let me now point you to this thread. It would seem that someone on the local community council agrees with me about the cycle lane as well!


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

I cycled along the same section today taking the same line. The road was actually busier. I had no problems whatsoever. 

I paid attention to my positioning and I considered why I chose that position. The road is actually quite wide here and if i take a position outside the lane cars etc can pass me with a good margin of safety whilst only just touching the white line with their right wheels. This is what the majority of cars do. It means that they aren't held up at all by me (or only by a few seconds), and they don't seriously interfere with oncoming traffic (nice wide lane on the other side as well). 

Everyone is happy. Sure an HGV or a bus has to take a bit more care and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic, but there are plenty of gaps and they are never held up for more than 10 seconds or so.

If I get a chance I'll post a video of today with some commentary. My camera yesterday had a smudge on it, so the picture wasn't as clear as normal. Hopefully todays footage will be clearer.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

I've just had a look at the footage. Here is a picture from the cycle path at the same place as yesterdays incident. Does this look like a path in good condition to you?


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## Cab (17 Mar 2010)

It looks like detritus from some rather nasty pot holes. Has the road recently been patched up?


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

Cab said:


> It looks like detritus from some rather nasty pot holes. Has the road recently been patched up?




That's the funny thing. This road isn't too bad with potholes.


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

Here's the cycle lane on my commute, would you use this one? It's about 2 feet wide.



http://http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie...=WxLy1dZ8cT5cu2gNJQsIAg&cbp=12,74.51,,0,19.06


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> Here's the cycle lane on my commute, would you use this one? It's about 2 feet wide.
> 
> 
> 
> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&l...=WxLy1dZ8cT5cu2gNJQsIAg&cbp=12,74.51,,0,19.06




You need to fix your link! I've fixed it in my quote above. I don't know, perhaps. It's a very, very different road to the one I was cycling on. It looks a quiet road, nowhere near as wide as the one I was on, and it is straight without undulations. I'm not sure how this takes the discussion forwards to be honest.

Yes I do dislike cycle lanes, although if you search my more recent posts on the subject you will see that I can understand why they are there. However, if I come the other way on this road I do use the lane in certain sections. I won't just avoid a cycle lane for the sake of it!


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> You need to fix your link! I've fixed it in my quote above. I don't know, perhaps. It's a very, very different road to the one I was cycling on. It looks a quiet road, nowhere near as wide as the one I was on, and it is straight without undulations. I'm not sure how this takes the discussion forwards to be honest.
> 
> Yes I do dislike cycle lanes, although if you search my more recent posts on the subject you will see that I can understand why they are there. However, if I come the other way on this road I do use the lane in certain sections. I won't just avoid a cycle lane for the sake of it!



Ta for the webmaster stuff. Yes it's a quiet commute, but I lived and cycled in Edinburgh for 7 years and you have had more incidents in the last 7 weeks than I did in Auld Reekie. The point I wish to make is that I use this narrow little lane when it's empty of parked cars, the road is pretty wide and almost all cars pass with plenty room. If I feel the need to move out of the lane then I take up a strong secondary position or a primary position if passing a bin lorry for instance. The traffic behind just has to wait. Normally I give a wave of thanks as they pass. If there was a large viehicle like a bus behind then I WOULD move over as much as possible to facilitate it's overtake. Surely that's just common sense - keeping yourself out of harms way. 

Yes the bus driver was too close, yes you have every right to cycle in the middle of the road if you wish, but You need to be more aware of your road position and surrounding traffic. Perhaps find an alternative route to work?


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

just rewatched your vid mags. it was a worse overtake than I thought. Perhaps you should have been either right out to the right or t'other side of white line?


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> Ta for the webmaster stuff. Yes it's a quiet commute, but I lived and cycled in Edinburgh for 7 years and you have had more incidents in the last 7 weeks than I did in Auld Reekie. The point I wish to make is that I use this narrow little lane when it's empty of parked cars, the road is pretty wide and almost all cars pass with plenty room. If I feel the need to move out of the lane then I take up a strong secondary position or a primary position if passing a bin lorry for instance. The traffic behind just has to wait. Normally I give a wave of thanks as they pass. If there was a large viehicle like a bus behind then I WOULD move over as much as possible to facilitate it's overtake. Surely that's just common sense - keeping yourself out of harms way.



Yes, however, this cycle lane and road is a completely different beast to the one I cycle on, so I'm not sure what the relevance to my situation and my incident is. Apples and pears.

Oh and it seems that the use of that particular cycle lane is itself controversial! 




> Yes the bus driver was too close, yes you have every right to cycle in the middle of the road if you wish, but You need to be more aware of your road position and surrounding traffic. Perhaps find an alternative route to work?



It has absolutely nothing to do with rights. I'm not trying to exert or stress any right. I am just trying to ride as safely as I can. 

I was perfectly aware of my road position. The reason that this overtake caught me out was that the vehicle slowed (there was no need as the bend is not that sharp and he was traveling below 30mph at the time) and pulled back in before passing me. 

This is my alternative route! it allows me to take back roads which avoid Balmore Road, which anyone who knows the area would testify is not a great road to cycle on in heavy traffic. By doing this I am trying to avoid conflict, which is contrary to what some people think I do....


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> just rewatched your vid mags. it was a worse overtake than I thought. Perhaps you should have been either right out to the right or t'other side of white line?




Or, perhaps....and I know this is stretching it a bit, the coach driver could have waited until it was safe to overtake and not have pulled in on me....crazy thought I know, but just a thought....


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> This is my alternative route! it allows me to take back roads which avoid Balmore Road, which anyone who knows the area would testify is not a great road to cycle on in heavy traffic. By doing this I am trying to avoid conflict, which is contrary to what some people think I do....



Maybe you should get out of the rat race like me. The road above is the busiest part of my journey


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> Here's the cycle lane on my commute, would you use this one? It's about 2 feet wide.
> 
> 
> 
> http://http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie...=WxLy1dZ8cT5cu2gNJQsIAg&cbp=12,74.51,,0,19.06




Hold on a minute! This street view is from just east of Eastbourne. You according to your profile live in Penrith. That is quite a commute you have there!


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## Sh4rkyBloke (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Or, perhaps....and I know this is stretching it a bit, the coach driver could have waited until it was safe to overtake and not have pulled in on me....crazy thought I know, but just a thought....


You fool, whatever would give you that idea???


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Or, perhaps....and I know this is stretching it a bit, the coach driver could have waited until it was safe to overtake and not have pulled in on me....crazy thought I know, but just a thought....



Absolutely at no point have I disagreed with this.


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## Cab (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> That's the funny thing. This road isn't too bad with potholes.



Odd. Looks like the rubbly hardcore that appears when a road falls apart. I wonder where its from then?

Have you reported the state of the cycle lane to the relevant local authority? Not that I'm suggesting that even after a clean you should definitely use it, but it'd be nice to have some rubble free escape space.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

beastie said:


> Absolutely at no point have I disagreed with this.




Ah, but this is an interesting point. I post the incident on here and the main focus of the thread soon turns to have/have not done wrong. Now I am used to this and to some extent it can be useful, but it does get a bit extreme sometimes. 

Who was the victim in this incident? And who is taking the flak? Is it justified?

Water off a ducks back, and all that, its just fascinating to be on this side of it...


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## BentMikey (17 Mar 2010)

At least part of that comes from our empathy, and our hopes to avoid a similar situation through better riding.


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

http://http://maps.google.com/?ie=U...oid=J6dM_mYcOaqPaCQT2dT7rQ&cbp=12,103.33,,0,5

I am having technical issues link to MY commute (in Penrith) is above


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

Cab said:


> Odd. Looks like the rubbly hardcore that appears when a road falls apart. I wonder where its from then?
> 
> Have you reported the state of the cycle lane to the relevant local authority? Not that I'm suggesting that even after a clean you should definitely use it, but it'd be nice to have some rubble free escape space.




There are a few lorries that go down that route carrying stone etc, I wonder if it is from them. It is worse on that curve which would fit...

I'll be writing a full letter to the council not just explaining the muck and rubble, but the other issue with the lane as well.


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...oid=J6dM_mYcOaqPaCQT2dT7rQ&cbp=12,103.33,,0,5


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## beastie (17 Mar 2010)

god I am shoot at the interweb


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

Here it is. 

That looks like a very poor cycle lane in my opinion, on what is a fairly narrow road. On a road that width I'd want cars to pull around me rather than just drive past me. To be honest, I don't think I would use that lane. It's not even obvious that it is a cycle lane!


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

Oh and it takes you on to a shared path to avoid a junction . Can cyclists not cope with junctions?


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## stowie (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ah, but this is an interesting point. I post the incident on here and the main focus of the thread soon turns to have/have not done wrong. Now I am used to this and to some extent it can be useful, but it does get a bit extreme sometimes.
> 
> Who was the victim in this incident? And who is taking the flak? Is it justified?
> 
> Water off a ducks back, and all that, its just fascinating to be on this side of it...



It is interesting isn't it? Nothing wrong with looking at how road-positioning could help avoid an incident such as this, but it was the coach driver that was the aggressive party in a vehicle that could easily kill, even at low speed.

The thought process that goes " That cyclist is not in his place in the cycle lane, therefore I will direct my several tonne of coach at him to teach him a lesson", well, it just sounds a bit psycho doesn't it?


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## Cab (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ah, but this is an interesting point. I post the incident on here and the main focus of the thread soon turns to have/have not done wrong. Now I am used to this and to some extent it can be useful, but it does get a bit extreme sometimes.



Happens over and over again with footage here. I think in part its that theres little to be gained from just agreeing with the point that the original poster has made. Its also to do with the fact that whoever has been filmed rarely has any way of replying. You can also add in a space factor; the lenses on these little cameras don't really show spacing as well as you'd hope, and often the judgement of passing distance is very hard when viewing camera footage.

Add to that a certain amount of self flagellation among cyclists (who oddly often seem more intent on blaming another cyclist for a close overtake rather than the driver overtaking!) and posting footage becomes pretty challenging.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

A complaint has been sent to Allander Travel.

I'll let you know the outcome.


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## Debian (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've just had a look at the footage. Here is a picture from the cycle path at the same place as yesterdays incident. Does this look like a path in good condition to you?



That's exactly what the cycle lane in my area that I posted about on this thread yesterday is like, in fact this one is worse.


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## steve52 (17 Mar 2010)

it may be differnt in real life but the footage i see is normal cycling for me i felt that u poss overeacted ? where u looking fo a conflict? yes he is wrong but you seem to be contributeing to it? only saying what i see,


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

steve52 said:


> it may be differnt in real life but the footage i see is normal cycling for me i felt that u poss overeacted ? where u looking fo a conflict? yes he is wrong but you seem to be contributeing to it? only saying what i see,



Yes, I aimed my bike at the rear end of his bus...


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

I've just had a reply from the company asking if I was the person who the incident actually happened to, as they have already received a complaint about it. Has someone complained about this on my behalf?

If so, I'd rather you didn't as surely it is up to me to make a complaint or not...


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## Origamist (17 Mar 2010)

Mags, you've posted the clip on YouTube - anyone can complain about the driving if they see fit!


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## jonny jeez (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've just had a reply from the company asking if I was the person who the incident actually happened to, as they have already received a complaint about it. Has someone complained about this on my behalf?
> 
> If so, I'd rather you didn't as surely it is up to me to make a complaint or not...



no, but what a great idea!

power in numbers!!!





(i'm joking)


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## 4F (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've just had a reply from the company asking if I was the person who the incident actually happened to, as they have already received a complaint about it. Has someone complained about this on my behalf?
> 
> If so, I'd rather you didn't as surely it is up to me to make a complaint or not...B)



Maybe the complaint was from the driver about a verbal assult from a mushroom clad lycra warrior with a squeeky voice


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Mags, you've posted the clip on YouTube - anyone can complain about the driving if they see fit!




Aye, but it doesn't really help and it has obviously confused the chap at the company.

I'd never dream about complaining about a clip I saw on youtube without at the very least asking the person who posted it.

Hey ho.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

4F said:


> Maybe the complaint was from the driver about a verbal assult from a mushroom clad lycra warrior with a squeeky voice



B)

I thought I was rather polite. I didn't swear once!


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## Origamist (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Aye, but it doesn't really help and it has obviously confused the chap at the company.
> 
> I'd never dream about complaining about a clip I saw on youtube without at the very least asking the person who posted it.
> 
> Hey ho.



Welcome to the world of unintended consequences...


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## jonny jeez (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I thought I was rather polite. I didn't swear once!



we couldnt tell..at one point only dogs could hear your voice


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> we couldnt tell..at one point only dogs could hear your voice


B)


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## BentMikey (17 Mar 2010)

LOL, that happened to me on one clip, a user had already complained to the company. I don't think we have much to say about that, it's entirely up to the other person whether they complain or not.


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## magnatom (17 Mar 2010)

I have just received this reply. 



> Hi Dave
> Someone did use this clip and said that they were involved in the incident.
> I reviewed the clip and found out which driver was at fault. As my reply to
> the previous correspondence, the driver will be interviewed, presented with
> ...


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## Bollo (17 Mar 2010)

I've just complained to youtube about the person complaining about the clip that you used to make a complaint.


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## swee'pea99 (17 Mar 2010)

Can I please register a complaint about Bollo complaining to youtube about the person complaining about the clip that Mags used to make a complaint?


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## Sh4rkyBloke (17 Mar 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99']Can I please register a complaint about Bollo complaining to youtube about the person complaining about the clip that Mags used to make a complaint?[/QUOTE]I'm complaining about not having my tea yet. I'm hungry!!! !


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## BentMikey (17 Mar 2010)

I'm complaining about you calling food "tea". Tea is a drink, dammnit!


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## J4CKO (17 Mar 2010)

Its difficult to say without having lived through the same experience, the video kind of lets us know what went on but not how we would have perceived it being there.

I think my take would be to use the cycle lane when there is loads of traffic and perhaps just going a bit slower in it when its busy, it looks fine from the video, better than a lot of roads but again difficult to say until you are howling long through the debis and potholes.

I think in this case the coach driver wasnt going 100 percent out of his way to be a twat and has no right to use a ten tonne vehicle to educate someone on a bike, sometimes there does seem to be some escalation of a minor incident into a big deal, almost like you are playing to an audience due to the camera, "look what he did to me" and then rather than just getting on with it following it up and kind of making it worse, the video with the truck cutting across you was genuinely scary but this, its sequel just doesnt make me think it was you being totally the victim, I see it 50/50 and have coach passes as close if not closer than this on Chelford road regularly, thing is, at least the side is smooth and there is less opportunity to interface with the rear wheels compared to a quarry wagon or tipper, funny how cycling makes you think.


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## BentMikey (17 Mar 2010)

Really that was horrendously close. A poor overtake at best, and most likely an intentional one. Playing to the camera indeed.


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## hackbike 666 (17 Mar 2010)

But you must know at the best of times bus and coach passes are not always as perfect as they should be.


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## BentMikey (17 Mar 2010)

I reckon I have very few problems with bus drivers. Best of all are London buses, they are totally awesome for the most part. I'm a fair amount more sceptical of stand-alone companies like this one, their drivers don't seem to take nearly as much care and concern as the TfL ones IME. Of course there are bad eggs, but much rarer than with car drivers IMO.


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## hackbike 666 (17 Mar 2010)

Yeah must admit I still rant when it gets a bit tight.Sorry.


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## Norm (17 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Oh, stop pussyfooting around and just tell me I'm a to$$er!


As no-one yet seems to have take you up on this offer... Magster, you are a to$$er. 



stowie said:


> ... but it appears the driver was more than willing to make his point with a large vehicle. Unacceptable in my book.


This is the critical bit for me, the driver's reaction and words when you later came alongside is evidence enough to convince me that he intended to use his larger vehicle to push you to the left. 

That has *got* to be a bad thing!



Cab said:


> That might be a fair cricitism; its a tough call, where to be if you're not using a cycle lane. You can argue that primary position on the road doesn't change, or you an instead argue that the cycle lane creates a new 'gutter' and to be most visible you need to be in primary in the main lane. Tough judgement call, that one.


Which is pretty much why I said that I ignore cycle lanes. The only effect that lane would have on my road positioning would be if the paint was at around the point I'd otherwise have chosen to cycle, then I'd move to the right of it.



Cab said:


> ...but all of that said it remains the fault of the overtaker if the pass is too close.


+1 again. Overtaking vehicle keeps clear.



jonny jeez said:


> ....you have, without doubt, the highest pitch, most girliest "Angry" voice of any scotsman I have ever come across.


And another +1. My dog now runs out of the room when he hears a YouTube cycling clip start up, after watching "The Tanker Sketch" about a hundred times.



BentMikey said:


> Really that was horrendously close. A poor overtake at best, and most likely an intentional one.


Rats... BM has already said what I wanted to say.


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## J4CKO (17 Mar 2010)

Just watched it again on a bigger screen, the coach seemed closer but the cycle lane doesnt seem that bad, can you not ride to the left of the line so they see your tyres are on the red bit so you are "using the cycle lane" and avoid road captains like that having any beef with you, you cant educate every single bad driver out there, its your arse in the firing line, he had no right to do that and I suspect it was closer than he thought from thirty odd feet away than you saw and you may avoid the agro.

I suppose if the road was all grey he wouldnt have done it, perhaps cycle lanes arent the greatest idea ?


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