# Hill climbing



## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

As I am starting to get more and more into this road cycling malarky, I want to improve my hill climbing. The bit I would specifically want to improve is my out of saddle climbing. I've got quite strong quads, but obviously not tuned for cycling as I find I can only really stand of the seat and pump my legs hard for 30 seconds max. What is the best exercise to improve this? I assume squats would help, but what would be better, shallow or deep squats (I assume shallow as your legs don't bend too far.

Obviously I need to do more out of the seat climbing on the bike, but any other exercises would help!


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## I am Spartacus (8 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> other exercises would help!



Simple..just more hills.. learn to pull up so that you feel from calf, hams and backside if you want a little more to 'it'


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> Simple..just more hills.. learn to pull up so that you feel from calf, hams and backside if you want a little more to 'it'




Oh aye, I'll be doing more of those!  Just wondered if there was something that could supplement it.


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## I am Spartacus (8 Jul 2009)

to be honest.. no.. a hour in the gym doing squats isnt going to make you any quicker uphill.... strength mind and power on the hill is tho'

find a frightening incline.. over 25% and do it in minimum 39/26 to start with


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

Is that average incline or maximum!  Some of the nearby hills certainly have gradients up to 20% (I'm sure Tak Ma Doon must be 20% in places). Anyone know any 25% gradients near Glasgow?

I've actually changed my cycling style on my commute. Instead of sitting in the saddle on the short climbs I am standing up and trying to power up them. It is making for much faster commute times!


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## MacB (8 Jul 2009)

cycle everywhere single speed for a while, choose a gear you can just about do and up it as you get better. 300 miles of this saw me going from only managing about 30 seconds out of the saddle to being able to do 6-7 minutes when required. You'll be surprised the hills you can get up.


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## I am Spartacus (8 Jul 2009)

you'll be pushed to find a constant 25%er over say a few hundred metres or whatever.. but thats NOT the point here.. actually what you mention.. accelerating HARD up any hill (shortish) and THEN keep acceleration ON by flicking up 1 or 2 gears for another 100 metres..... excellent training.. suggest you recover for 4/5 minutes tho


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

Mac Bludgeon, I have thought about getting a fixie or a single speed for my commutes for winter commuting. The only thing holding me back is the fact I have had knee problems in the past (3 right knee ops for old judo injury). I'm just a little concerned this type of riding might not be good for the knee, although I have found cycling in general has been good for it.

IAS, yes I'll keep up the short hill sprints, obviously taking into account traffic conditions etc!


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## MacB (8 Jul 2009)

definitely watch the knees but the joy of doing it on your geared bike is that you have the option to use the gears when tired etc. If you get a set SS or Fixed then you either ride it out or push. As mentioned I did my commute, some local loops, the Mannigtree ride(totalled 115 miles for the day). Then the night ride to Brighton, I cycled from home to HPC and all the way to Turners hill before I finally had to give in and change gears, that hill could have broken either me or the bike. 

But we're not talking about taking on silly hills in one gear here, merely improving your out of the saddle stamina and style. Just doing your usual commutes in one gear will give you plenty of time out of the saddle and also plenty of spinning as well.


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

Problem is, I'd probably not want to run just one gear on my good bike. Replacing an ultegra cassette might cost a few quid! 

My LBS said they could probably do me a single speed/fixie for about £100. I am tempted to do this to get me through the winter. My knee feels good even when I grind a bit. Mmmm.


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## HLaB (8 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> Is that average incline or maximum!  Some of the nearby hills certainly have gradients up to 20% (I'm sure Tak Ma Doon must be 20% in places). Anyone know any 25% gradients near Glasgow?
> 
> I've actually changed my cycling style on my commute. Instead of sitting in the saddle on the short climbs I am standing up and trying to power up them. It is making for much faster commute times!


The Tak Ma Doon is only 17.5% at steepest. Back to your original Q, I think practice is the only way.


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

HLaB said:


> The Tak Ma Doon is only 17.5% at steepest. Back to your original Q, I think practice is the only way.




So you say, but I think your GPS is averaging out some of the hills too much!


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## jimboalee (8 Jul 2009)

Fill up a backpack with 20kg or so and find a downward escalator that no-one else uses.


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## levad (8 Jul 2009)

The man wants a fixie ... no amount of other suggestions is going to change his mind. I am in the same boat about going up hills better, everybody says lose weight and practise. I lost over 1/2 Kg off the bike by changing from 700x28 touring tyres and tubes to 700x25 Gatorskins. I only did this last Saturday, today was my first commute this week after a sportive on Sunday and I got up the steepest hill coming home 1.5 to 2mph quicker!


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## Sittingduck (8 Jul 2009)

Magnatom

If your LBS can sort one out for you for 100 quid, might aswell give it a go 
I'd be tempted to ask for a flip flop hub with options of 2 gear lengths that you can select as required. Something early 60's one side and upper 60's on the other, maybe 

SD


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## HLaB (8 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> Anyone know any 25% gradients near Glasgow?


Are you for a cycle up the Tak Ma Doon and then to north Stirling. This is the steepest climb I know near'ish you (Carlie Craig). According to the Edge its only 20% but by your reckoning that must be touching 25% 

Edit: are any of these near you?


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## magnatom (8 Jul 2009)

HLaB said:


> Are you for a cycle up the Tak Ma Doon and then to north Stirling. This is the steepest climb I know near'ish you (Carlie Craig). According to the Edge its only 20% but by your reckoning that must be touching 25%
> 
> Edit: are any of these near you?



That's a cool web site!  It's a shame it only has average and not maximum gradient. I'll have to have a close look at that. 

I'd certainly be up for a ride taking in Carlie Craig. You'd have to hang back for me though!


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## Scoosh (8 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> I'd certainly be up for a ride taking in Carlie Craig. You'd have to hang back for me though!


Sounds a good ride idea B)

I'm in ..... when ???

Regarding OP - all I have read says that the best way to get better at climbing hills ... is to climb hills.  Sounds too simple but I think it works - I did Cleish Hill today from the Cleish (N) side and thoroughly enjoyed it B). Not too steep, and I'm practising sitting down and spinning.

I'd certainly echo the concept of using only one gear on your commutes - doesn't have to be on the best bike either.


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## HLaB (8 Jul 2009)

scoosh said:


> Sounds a good ride idea
> 
> I'm in ..... when ???
> 
> ...



The next forum ride  I was glad when I did it I was on the compact Bianchi.

I remember my first 100 miler that finished with the Nivingston Craigs (Cleish Hill). A familiar story when I started off the sun was splitting the sky but by the time I'd got to the craigs it was pouring and the rain was running down the hill in what seemed liked rivers , flowing faster than i could go up.

I like to vary things on the climb sitting up is fine on a constant gradient but sometimes it doesn't feel right. I like to stand up a bit (up a gear or two) sit down for a bit (drop down a gear or two) and repeat this often. I find it gives relief to different muscles and lets me go on further. Depending what the hill is like I do more of one or the other, you get to know what feels like. Its usually stand up more for a short hill and spin more for a longer one.

PS with my commute being short I like to do it on the heavier bike.


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## MacB (8 Jul 2009)

Mags, just to follow up on the SS idea, by all means get a specific bike, but I wasn't suggesting hammering your good bike hard enough, or at a poor chainline, to do any damage. I just found that I'd gotten into the change gear automatically mode, often for slopes that really weren't worth the gear change. I didn't do any damage to my bike and I was a great deal heavier than you, and significantly less fit, when I started this.

The point is that you spend a lot more time out of the saddle, it doesn't have to be massively honking. You just get comfier doing it and your 'out of the saddle' stamina improves very quickly.


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## magnatom (9 Jul 2009)

Guys,

I definitely up for a 'hilly ride'. When are you guys available? I can normally do Fridays and Saturdays, when I can get a day pass! 


MacBludgeon,

I just don't want to use just one gear. I don't want to wear down one cog.

What I have been doing is generally standing up more on my commute and trying to use higher gears. I'm definitely improving. I'm managing to stay in the large front ring most of the time now. In fact, this morning I only had to drop once just at the top of the tunnel. I'll be doing a 50 miler tomorrow, and I will certainly try and stand more.


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## I am Spartacus (9 Jul 2009)

Only 1 more thing to say about hills..

USE GEARS GUYS 

with regrets to anyone with 1 gear or less fitted to their bike


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## magnatom (9 Jul 2009)

I had a look at the Cols d'Ecosse website. Apart from Crow Road and Tak Ma Doon, none of these are really in range (there is one in Greenock, but I have no urge to go there and it is tiddly compared to my other locals). 

One that caught my eye was Bealach na Ba from Applecross. It averages 7.3% and involves 625 metres of climbing. Now that is a hill!


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## Scoosh (9 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> I had a look at the Cols d'Ecosse website. Apart from Crow Road and Tak Ma Doon, none of these are really in range (there is one in Greenock, but I have no urge to go there and it is tiddly compared to my other locals).
> 
> One that caught my eye was Bealach na Ba from Applecross. It averages 7.3% and involves 625 metres of climbing. Now that is a hill!


How about this (the wee one)  


... or THIS (the BIG one) 

Maybe CC Team for 2010 ???


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## HLaB (9 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> Guys,
> 
> I definitely up for a 'hilly ride'. When are you guys available? I can normally do Fridays and Saturdays, when I can get a day pass!


I not took a summer hol yet so I've still got a few days left, so I could probably do a Fri and I'm off every Saturday; just let us know if you've got anything in mind.


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## HJ (9 Jul 2009)

I think you are looking at it the wrong way Mags, your approach is about sheer brute strength, when it is actually about stamina. What you really need to do is up your distance...


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## Seamab (9 Jul 2009)

The "Carlie Craig" climb referred to is the Sheriffmuir road and can be started either from the Bridge of Allan side (just adjacent to the main entrance to Stirling Uni) or from the Blairlogie side at Logie Kirk just before the Wallace monument.

Both roads meet up a short distance into the climb. The Bridge of Allan side is harder but a better road surface than the Logie Kirk side. It starts out fairly brutal and keeps that way for a fair bit before easing off at a viewpoint car park when it changes to a less steep but still challenging climb all the way up past the Sheriffmuir Inn (near 3 miles in total).

A hilly route would be to start in Stirling , go over Sheriffmuir to Blackford (crossing the A9) then past Gleneagles, Auchterarder and over to Dunning, up the Path of Condie, Stronachie down to Cleish, up Nivingstone Crags, Knock Hill, down to Saline and on back down to Stirling. Need to map it out for distance, but it would be a challenging run...


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## magnatom (9 Jul 2009)

HJ said:


> I think you are looking at it the wrong way Mags, your approach is about sheer brute strength, when it is actually about stamina. What you really need to do is up your distance...



Oh yes, I aim to do that as well. However, time is always limited due to the ever growing family!

50 miles is beoming my normal training distance, and this weekend I will be taking in Tak Ma Doon and Crow Road.

I should manage the odd 60 miler here and there. Anything more will be very occasional.


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## magnatom (9 Jul 2009)

HLaB said:


> I not took a summer hol yet so I've still got a few days left, so I could probably do a Fri and I'm off every Saturday; just let us know if you've got anything in mind.



I'll see what I can organise, time wise, although time is tight at the moment.

I could perhaps take a day off as well on another day of the week. I shall ponder....


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## oldgreyandslow (10 Jul 2009)

MacB
I see your in the same locale as me, where are the hills near here? I have the same issues as the original poster, when it gets just a little hilly I seem to just die, its the legs not the lungs!


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## MacB (10 Jul 2009)

oldgreyandslow said:


> MacB
> I see your in the same locale as me, where are the hills near here? I have the same issues as the original poster, when it gets just a little hilly I seem to just die, its the legs not the lungs!



nothing of any note round our way that I'm aware of, some short and sharp, the road out of Cove to Blackwater, with the rumble strips on it. Longish, but not steep, is Cricket Hill Lane from Yately to A30, about 1.1miles.


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## oldgreyandslow (10 Jul 2009)

I know the Cove to Blackwater road you mention, I used to be able to do that one I'll try it again, I remember it hurt!

One question: Why the need to put your weight on the end of the message?

I could do that one: March 09 187lbs, July 09 173lbs, target Sept 09 160lbs.


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## MacB (11 Jul 2009)

oldgreyandslow said:


> I know the Cove to Blackwater road you mention, I used to be able to do that one I'll try it again, I remember it hurt!
> 
> One question: Why the need to put your weight on the end of the message?
> 
> I could do that one: March 09 187lbs, July 09 173lbs, target Sept 09 160lbs.




Signature line so appears automatically, just another way of making sure I don't slack off on the cycling or the weight loss. Once target is achieved it will vanish. So, no actual need, but a little added incentive for me.:?:


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## MichaelM (29 Jul 2009)

Interesting thread with a couple of local hills being mentioned, excuse me jumping in but would anyone fancy a circular tour of Kinross?

Start at Kinross:

Cleish Hill (Nivingston)

Knockhill to Powmill, Muckart.

Common of Dunning

Boghall Hill

Glenfarg via Torhill

Abernethy Glen from Bankfoot.

Falkland Hill

Back to Kinross.


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## Jim_Noir (29 Jul 2009)

I'd be intrested in a hill climb run near Glasgow sometime, I'd be shite at it mind!


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## magnatom (29 Jul 2009)

I'm doing a sportive this weekend, but most weekends (Saturday mornings) I do a 40 or 50 miler (from Anniesland) that takes in the Campsies. If anyone is up for that it would be great to have some company.


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## magnatom (29 Jul 2009)

MichaelM said:


> Interesting thread with a couple of local hills being mentioned, excuse me jumping in but would anyone fancy a circular tour of Kinross?
> 
> Start at Kinross:
> 
> ...



Sounds interesting! But Kinross is a little far for me. Some of the east coasters might be up for it.


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## Jim_Noir (29 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> I'm doing a sportive this weekend, but most weekends (Saturday mornings) I do a 40 or 50 miler (from Anniesland) that takes in the Campsies. If anyone is up for that it would be great to have some company.



I'd be up for it one weekend. But I don't want you filming me struggeling up hill like


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## magnatom (29 Jul 2009)

Jim_Noir said:


> I'd be up for it one weekend. But I don't want you filming me struggeling up hill like




Your all right. I don't take the camera with me. The extra weight reduces my speed going up Tak Ma Doon from 5mp to 4mph!

I'll let you know when I am next heading out.


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