# Trike on trains



## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

Just getting myself organised for the London Freewheel on the 21st and I decided to ring my local train company to check with them about any special conditions of carriage for my Trice. I was rather shocked to discover that I can't actually take it on the train at all as it's wider than 70cm. I explained that if I took the front wheels off it'd be narrower than 70cm but the chap on the phone said that in that case it wouldn't be a bike any longer, it'd be luggage which would have to be specially and safely packed!

I was rather appalled by this and asked to speak to a supervisor who talked to me a bit more and was going to ring my local station to see if they'd accept the trike. I use a trike because of an arm disability and so explained that if I took it apart (as they seemed to want me to do) I probably wouldn't be able to lift it anyway.

Has anyone else had any experience of taking trikes on National Express trains?


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## Riding in Circles (8 Sep 2008)

Generally its a no unless you put it in a box.


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## domtyler (8 Sep 2008)

Illegal.


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## Riding in Circles (8 Sep 2008)

domtyler said:


> Illegal.


 Yep, disabled discrimination.


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

Just had a message on my voicemail from National Express (I was out cycling!) to say that they can't have the trike on their trains because of... you've guessed it... health & safety reasons. They can't ask me to dismantle it because it's too heavy for me to carry dismantled (part of my disability) and yet they can't offer to dismantle it for me either.

I can't decide whether to cycle to the station on the 21st and see if I get away with it (with the faint possibility I will end up stuck in London at the end of the day) or just give up. But I was SO looking forward to Freewheel! Alternative is to drive the bike to London from Colchester but that seems so ridiculously self-defeating. Any suggestions?


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## Arch (8 Sep 2008)

I was told off, politely, on Saturday for wheeling my bike into the travel centre at York Station with me to buy a ticket to Hull. I half expected it, but pointed out that if they allowed you to lock a bike up just outside the travel centre without risk of it being removed, it would be easier, otherwise you have to wheel it all the way down platform 1 to a free bike rack, walk back to get your ticket, then go fetch it and get to your platform. The lady said it was due to health and safety, and people tripping over bikes. I restrained myself from pointing out that if they trip over my bike, when I'm wheeling it, close to my body and taking care over it, then it's their own stupid fault for not looking where they are going. I suppose they allow stupidly large baby buggies in ok. 

But I digress. I'm afraid I wouldn't even try to get a trike on a train. Sad, but, that's the way it is. Although TBH, I'd find it a struggle to get a trike on and off at some stations, where the step down is quite high.


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

Bit of an update. I telephoned the Cycle Champions Co-ordinator for Colchester and he phoned his contact at National Express trains who have authorised me to take the Trike and will provide me with a letterheaded document saying so (provided that I get a train with a Guard's Van). So once again it's not what you know it's who you know (fortunate as I don't know much about cycling!)

I am hoping to find another friendly cyclist travelling on that train to help me lift the trike on and off as with my disability it can be tricky manoeuvring it. However I don't want to give up - it's too easy when disabled to think "oh, I can't do that" and you never do anything. I'm not allowed to ski, rollerskate, horse ride, anything like that where I might fall off; I can't swim without causing damage to my prosthesis - what I CAN do is cycle (now I have a trike) and I'm going to make the most of the cycling opportunities I can!

So hopefully I'll see some of you at freewheel. If you see a trike with a hefty woman on it, say hello!


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## Riding in Circles (8 Sep 2008)

You still have trains with guards vans? You lucky person, there are none here anymore.


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

I recently exfiltrated Kent so for me Guards Vans were an exciting new thing in Essex. However the Kentish trains (at least the ones from Tonbridge to Charing Cross) are far more comfortable than Essex trains. You win some, you lose some...


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## Riding in Circles (8 Sep 2008)

I will be there on the Sunday, on a purple Catrike Expedition.


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

...and are you travelling there on the train???


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## Riding in Circles (8 Sep 2008)

No, it's only 40 miles to the city from here.


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## tdr1nka (8 Sep 2008)

Auntie Helen said:


> ...and are you travelling there on the train???



Auntie Helen,

Start a thread in Cafe to ask if anyone is coming down for the Freewheel from Essex, I'm sure someone will be but if not someone from North London could meet you at the London end.

I'd volunteer but I'm coming up from South of the river, sorry.
Catrike, are you coming up through the SE? Miss tdr1nka & I will be heading off from New Cross.


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

Hi tdr1nka, seems like the girl to whom I just lent my old mountain bike will be coming and will meet me to assist with Trice extraction from the train. If not I'm sure if I look helpless enough various people will assist (I am blonde so that generally helps with getting random chaps to help out).

I'm really looking forward to the event with the slight cloud on the horizon that even my magic letter from the railways chap might not work. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and still gets me out of an event at the in-laws'!


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## tdr1nka (8 Sep 2008)

The letter will work, even if you have to 'burst into tears' to get the message through..

I'll be there on Sunday, in my Cycle Chat jersey and towing Miss tdr1nka on the trailgator.

In fact we ought to arrange a time and meeting point for all the CC'ers going!


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## Auntie Helen (8 Sep 2008)

I have the 'bursting into tears option' (used very successfully to get Comet to take back a dodgy washing machine) as well as pulling the disabled card out of the hat as backups. It's a bit rubbish that I have to consider all this, though, when I just want to take my bicycle on a train. Still I'm sure I'll get there - I'll look out for people in Cycle Chat jerseys amongst the thousands of people there...


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## banjokat (9 Sep 2008)

If it's any consolation, there's a guy over on the CTC forums who regularly takes his trike on trains, just books it as a bike. AFAIK he's never had a problem


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## Riding in Circles (9 Sep 2008)

Looks like I may be driving to an entry point as the SO has declared her wish to go as well and she will not ride into town. So look out for a purple Catrike Expedition and a silver Catrike Villager.


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## Auntie Helen (1 Oct 2008)

A bit of an update to the Trikes on Trains information.

I was given authorisation to take my trike to Freewheel, as I explained above, and I wrote a letter to thank the chap who works for National Express trains who provided the letter. I said that I had a hankering to take the train to Norwich and then cycle to visit some relatives (12 miles from Norwich) but assumed that once again I wasn't allowed. This was the response:

_Hi Helen

Its great to hear you had a good day and that the staff were helpful with your journey.

The permission was not given as a one off, we would be happy to see you again. As previously stated please try to arrange trips around our intercity services as these can easily accommodate a trike.

Hope your trip to Norwich is as enjoyable.

Regards
Paul _

Good news!


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## tdr1nka (1 Oct 2008)

Great result!


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## Auntie Helen (1 Oct 2008)

It is, although I have no idea how senior this chap is (although I think he's fairly senior) and whether brandishing his name will do the trick. I can but try - and Ben Lovejoy who uses the same train company says he's not had problems.


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## A V Lowe (3 Oct 2008)

Is that the same Auntie Helen formerly of these parts in the North? If so lets keep plugging for the recognition of cycles as mobility aids - hope to have something soon from one operator on this and trikes/tandems, and we can move forward with a petition to get DfT Mobility Unit and others to properly recognise cycles as mobility aids, where they quite obviously provide independent personal mobility to those who are prohibited from driving etc.

As corollary to that of course anyone who 'needs' a trike to get around should then hit the rail operators with the requirements of RVAR (access to trains) for PRM (persons with reduced mobility) - ie more than just disabled people.

RVAR means that all trains should let things up to 80cm wide get on board and have somewhere to park. Worth diving in to this for a bit of serious reading and something to quote that stops Mr Jobsworth in his tracks (as they don't know if they are liable to challenge for discrimination or other legal detail and when in doubt they have 2 options - capitulate or slam down the shutters - in both cases you win something, as you either get on the train or you contact the local media - radio phone in? and advise that you are stranded and if anyone listening is heading in your direct and could manage to fit in a passenger and mobility aid....).


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## Auntie Helen (3 Oct 2008)

I'm an Auntie Helen from daan saaf so I don't think it's me (Kent formerly, now Essex). 

Interesting thoughts, though, about cycles as mobility aids. That's not my issue as my disability is in my arm but it's an extra string to the bow of arguments for trikes to be accepted on trains etc.


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