# Cycling across Europe on the cheap.....advice needed!!!



## Eddie Jones (10 Mar 2009)

Anyone know anything about/have experience of cycling across the Netherlands, Germany, France and Swizerland (more specifically the river Rhine) as cheaply as poss?

we (a small group) will have tents and a stove...... is wild camping a possibility nowadays? What is "camping on the farm"? How widespread is camping on the farm? How much does it tend to cost? Do you have to book places in advance or do you tend to come across them so frequently you can just pedal down the river and your bound to find somwhere before nightfall? Know anything else which could be useful when cycling the river Rhine on a small budget?

Google searching to find answers to these kinds of questions has not got me very far so any relvant advice/weblinks much appreciated! 

- Eddie Jones


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## Redmountduo (10 Mar 2009)

We did a 4month tour of France on a budget of £50 per week. (2007)
Wild camping is easy and we had no problems at all.
Had a night or two on a "Camping al a Ferme" which cost 5 euros a night.
I must say that it took a little planning shopping wise but is possible.
I think a more realistic budget would be £70 a week these days.


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## Brains (10 Mar 2009)

Wild camping down most of the Rhein is possible:

The rules:

Ideally scope out your campsite between 4 and 5 pm, certainly an hour or two before dark

Multiple tent camping is harder. 
If one tent has a difficulty level of 10 then 2 tents is 20, 3 tents is 40, 4 tents 80, 5 tents is borderline impossible in Western Europe.
Add 5 points per person. If you score over 100 forget wild camping as a group 

Pitch 7 to 7 
(Up after 7pm, down before 7am. There are actually rules stating this in France and Spain, where you can get done for trespass outside these hours)

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.
Ideally it should be impossible for anyone to tell you have slept there within a few hours of your departure

Ask if you can before pitching.

Don't rule out houses with large gardens and the gardens of Pubs. 
Both of which have been fertile wild caping places in the past (sometimes with breakfast, shower, clothes washing and welding up a broken frame all thrown in for free)

Keep quiet at night - noise travels in the dark, especially over water





Make sure your tent is Green or some other dark colour


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## jay clock (10 Mar 2009)

www.crazyguyonabike.com has the answers to lots of these questions


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## Franstheman (10 Mar 2009)

Hi Eddie, Welcome to the club.
I did a tour to Turkey and used the Rhine as a handrail south. I was travelling light and used youth hostels and Pensions. 
I got a lot of help from an English couple who live near Heidleberg. They are touring advisors to the CTC and are well versed with the Germany, Bavaria, Switzerland area. They also right touring books aimed at the English market. I can put you in touch with them if you so wish but I would seek their permission first before I put their details on a public site like this.
They put me on to a good publication - be it in German. The Rhein Radweg, Mainz to Rotterdam by Bikeline. I guess it is one of 3 publications that cover the entire Rhine cycleway. They do loads of other publications as well. I can't read German but the maps where pretty clear and straight forward.


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## snorri (10 Mar 2009)

This company publish good cycling guides
http://www.esterbauer.com/
The ones for the Rhine are only printed in German, but the maps are excellent and you will soon learn enough German to understand the text. You will require 3 books entitled Rhein Radweg Teil 1-3 to take you from the North Sea near Rotterdam to Basel. There is an easy to follow route from the ferry terminal at Hook of Holland to Rotterdam. 
There is more info. here
http://www.rheinradweg.eu/en/index.php?page=rhine_cycle_route/description


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## Andy in Sig (11 Mar 2009)

As Snorri and Franstheman point out, you only need bother with the Bikeline guides in Germany. The Esterbauer website has a map showing an overview of the routes they publish guides for.

You're not allowed to wild camp in Germany and in any event the camp sites are excellent and affordable. If you do try it, then go deep into a wood and off the tracks (also illegal for much of the year). Then you need to be aware of tick bites and tick borne diseases. So believe me it is not worth the effort.

You can follow the Rhine all the way down to Lake Constance and then do a lap of that and so into Switzerland.


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## rich p (11 Mar 2009)

Unless your budget is extrememly limited I would recommend using the cheap, well provided campsites. You can stop at a convenient time to you, leave your kit in the tent while sighseeing, sourcing food etc, have a hot shower. For me, at least, a much more relaxing and enjoyable experience. Lots of the sites have a picnic table making eating and drinking more pleasurable. Some have free barbeques too .


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## Dougster (11 Mar 2009)

Totally agree with rich p. One of the highlights of touring must be the long shower after a long, hot day in the saddle. You can't really get this if you wild camp.


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## andym (11 Mar 2009)

Eddie

Here are a couple of useful links to sites with listings of farms in France with camping facilities:

http://www.bienvenue-a-la-ferme.com/en/

http://www.accueil-paysan.com/indexen.htm


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## stephenjubb (13 Mar 2009)

Have any of the posters above wild camped?

When I toured Spain for four weeks in December/January this year 50% of the campsites were £12-£15 per night, dearer as the euro collapsed. I wild camped 4 times out of necessity.

Don't know how much campsites are in Germany but wild camping can be a good option to save money and is flexible (subject to location) but not every night for reasons mentioned previously.

As for ticks if your legs are covered you should be fine. It doesn't stop Ray Mears camping in the woods and remote places.


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## andym (13 Mar 2009)

Actually the arguments put forward by rich p seem to be entirely reasonable and sensible. I can understand why people might opt for wild camping in remote areas or because they can't afford it but personally I believe in supporting small local campsites (many of which cost less than 10 euros) as a way of supporting the local economy and because using established campsites is more environmentally friendly.

And how many cyclists tour in long trousers? Lymes disease is something to take seriously.


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## tapan (14 Mar 2009)

I have cycle camped all over Europe. I rarely wild camp but have done on rare occasions. Since I cycle alone there is no problem finding suitable sites.

But I use camp sites. The municipal sites in France and Germany are generally excellant and inexpensive and with free hot water means a relaxing hot shower after a day on the velo. it also means usually I am near to a supermarket for shopping and lots of local info is available for free!
The way to keep costs low is to buy food and cook it yourself. A meal in cafe/bar is in comparison hugely expensive. I use a spirit fired trangia for cooking and it is the first thing set up after the tent. By the time I have showered and organised my gear my freshly cooked meal is ready.

Similarly don't buy your beer/wine in a bar/cafe. A "Quart de vin" ( 1/4 litre) will cost you 3 Euro+ but you can get a good whole bottle in a supermarché for the same money.
I buy espresso ( about 1 Euro) after being on the road for about an hour and a bread roll from a bakery ( they will put you a slice of würst in it just for the cost of the würst!)

My treat on a hot day -- especially in Germany/Austria is to buy a huge 3 flavour icecream!

Most bars will fill up your water bottle with ice cold water for free so buy your coffee and ask for water at thr same time.

Traditionally on my trips in france I buy a bottle of Calvados on day 1 and have one nip as a nightcap to help me settle for the night.

Using campsites also gives you a large degree of security which means you can go away from your tent leaving all your gear. I have never had anything stolen. Oh yes and you can recharge all your electrical stuff too!
The camp sites in the Nederlands are to most expensive but most Municipal site elsewhere are way less the 10 Euro!

This year i am cycling back from Berlin ( with a trip into Poland to settle me in.) I have lots of "offshoot trips planned off my main rout and expext to do about 2000 kms


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## snorri (14 Mar 2009)

stephenjubb said:


> Have any of the posters above wild camped?


With very few exceptions, I have only wild camped in an emergency.
Apart from the small cash saving, I just don't get this wild camping thing, I relish the hot shower at night and another before starting off in the morning and the camp catering facility. The ground is level, you can be assured no one will take exception to your presence, and I have only been disturbed by noisy campers on a couple of occasions. I have never been refused a space at a full camp, whereas car borne customers were being turned away.


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## Andy in Sig (15 Mar 2009)

Tapan is right about eating costs. If you want to keep your costs down in Germany, have your breakfast in a Stehcafe (basically the local bakery which has a couple of tables in the corner so you can have your rolls and coffee there). Otherwise if money is tight then get your food in supermarkets.


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## BigonaBianchi (15 Mar 2009)

wild camping is easier in France than in Germany imho


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## jags (15 Mar 2009)

silly question but how can you tell which is a municipal site ,and which isen't.


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## andym (15 Mar 2009)

jags said:


> silly question but how can you tell which is a municipal site ,and which isen't.



Normally this will be indicated in guidebooks (ie the site will be referred to as Camping Municipal de wherever) but it may not be obvious if you simply pole up to the site.

I would say that municipal sites are not always the cheapest and best value (though they often are). Private sites may also offer a good deal.


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## ASC1951 (16 Mar 2009)

andym said:


> And how many cyclists tour in long trousers? Lymes disease is something to take seriously.


Lymes disease is a serious disease if untreated, but very rare - 600 in a UK population of 60 million in 2005, according to a Parliamentary answer in 2005. You are mainly at risk in woodland/grassland margins i.e. not worth bothering about for touring cyclists, even with occasional wild camping. It is something to be aware of but not to take (generally ineffective) precautions against.

http://www.snowbikers.com/articles/ticks.html

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo061023/text/61023w0040.htm


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## Andy in Sig (16 Mar 2009)

It's much more common on the continent and the German authorities recommend inoculation against some of the tick borne diseases. One of my colleagues regularly walks his dog along a stretch of the Danube bike path and one day he had to remove 27 ticks from the dog after it had spent an hour or so running through the meadows at the time when a lot of 1 foot or so high flowers were in bloom. You may think the risk of ticks is not worth bothering about in the UK but I would be very reluctant to extend that advice to the continent.


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## andym (16 Mar 2009)

Andy in Sig said:


> You may think the risk of ticks is not worth bothering about in the UK but I would be very reluctant to extend that advice to the continent.



No it's definitely worth worrying about in the UK as well. I'm not sure what ASC1951 has in mind when he talks about precautions being generally ineffective. Unless you never ever go off road you should be aware of the hazard from ticks and carry a tick remover in your first aid kit.

http://www.bada-uk.org/


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## stephenjubb (16 Mar 2009)

googled inoculation. apparently there is no inoculation at present. the last one was withdrawn in 2003 due to health concerns.

hopefully someone will correct me.


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## andym (16 Mar 2009)

All the more reason to be aware and carry a tick remover.


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## Riding in Circles (31 May 2010)

I used to wild camp in Germany a lot during leave, it was great and often as not there was plenty of space for others, quite often visited by European wolves at night, not dangerous, about the size of british foxes, it was great seeing real wildlife up close.


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