# Leg conditioning , paying off !!



## ozboz (13 Feb 2016)

Hiya , I was struggling to do climbs , other than very short ones , I would plan a route around them to make the ride more pleasurable , so I took to doing some legwork in the gym , along with pushing the bike in higher gears for a sustainable period , in a very short time it has made climbing so much easier ! Yesterday I climbed up a two mile long gradient fairly steep at times , about 3/4 of the way to the top I dropped onto the lower chainring , , heart pumping and pretty much in the saddle all the way ! Felt like doing a ' Rocky ' when I got there ! 
Gym work is a bit boring , but an evil to be confronted ! , fortunately for me Ms 'boz is a full on fitness trainer , so no cost for me to use facilities , I did a 40 miler on Thursday , after the ride I went into The Centre and had a nice steam , excellent way to end a good ride around , so I'm off to gym now , then back for the Rugby , will miss England tom'w , I'll be on route to Newcastle -u Lyne , bugger !


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## Citius (13 Feb 2016)

So riding harder has improved your fitness..?


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2016)

It all helps. 

I will be hitting the gym more as my riding will now be significantly less as I won't be cycle commuting any more, so I'll mix gym, cycling and swimming rather than just cycling.


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## RoubaixCube (13 Feb 2016)

I might get me a turbo


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> I might get me a turbo



Halfords have had some good deals. I picked up an Elite Mag Turbo for £40 with BC discount in January


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## RoubaixCube (13 Feb 2016)

fossyant said:


> Halfords have had some good deals. I picked up an Elite Mag Turbo for £40 with BC discount in January



I saw that on Wednesday when i popped to my local halfords. I think it was between £50-60. Dont know if their any good though. 

Um currently not registered with BC


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## ozboz (13 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> So riding harder has improved your fitness..?


Yep ! Combined with gym work , 
Just finished in gym , concentrated on legs and core muscles , I'll have to join a gym on temp basis after Newcastle job I'm off to Paisley then Aberdeen , so no riding for a couple of months , I want to be ready for the warmer months


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## fossyant (13 Feb 2016)

Gym won't replace cycling, but it's a good complement. 

The Elite Turbo is worth the money as you are looking at £100 minimum for a basic one usually.


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## vickster (13 Feb 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> I saw that on Wednesday when i popped to my local halfords. I think it was between £50-60. Dont know if their any good though.
> 
> Um currently not registered with BC


If you commute in London some sort of legal and third party indemnity cover is definitely worth looking at

BC, LCC, CRC, Wiggle etc


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## RoubaixCube (13 Feb 2016)

vickster said:


> If you commute in London some sort of legal and third party indemnity cover is definitely worth looking at
> 
> BC, LCC, CRC, Wiggle etc




I'll look into it later on tonight


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## vickster (13 Feb 2016)

They all have quite different political stances around cycling activism (other than Wiggle) so if that sort of thing bothers you, read into it

I expect the levels of cover are similar, they will use different solicitors etc however


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## cyberknight (13 Feb 2016)

fossyant said:


> Halfords have had some good deals. I picked up an Elite Mag Turbo for £40 with BC discount in January


I bought the same one with the wheel block and bottle, with BC discount its a bargain i plan to have a ride later as tomorrow is a no go , or its a go to ...............


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## ayceejay (13 Feb 2016)

As Fossy says gym work as supplement to riding although some insist that you only need to ride your bike. One advantage of the gym is the ability to concentrate on specific muscle groups which is effective especially if you recognize a weakness. In this case weight loss would also prove advantageous.


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## Citius (13 Feb 2016)

ozboz said:


> Yep ! Combined with gym work ,
> Just finished in gym , concentrated on legs and core muscles , I'll have to join a gym on temp basis after Newcastle job I'm off to Paisley then Aberdeen , so no riding for a couple of months , I want to be ready for the warmer months



Depending on your previous level of fitness, gym work for cycling purposes ranges from 'useful' to 'useless'. If you have come from a very low level of fitness, then almost any type of exercise will result in a fitness improvement. Focusing on leg work in the gym, such as weights, presses, etc is unlikely to give you any benefit from a cycling perspective, to be honest..


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## ozboz (13 Feb 2016)

As a T2 diabetic I do have some problems , muscle loss has been the major one , calves and hamstrings in the main , what I have found is that a well structured gym plan the areas that I have targeted improved way quicker than cycling alone , I also do some upper body work , my Surley has drop handle bars so initially I found that the position riding this was taking its toll on my arms and back after a couple of hour riding , when I get back from my travels , I am getting a road bike , it's. 70's Carlton , so I'll be keen to get on some serious 100 miler jobs , also vintage I am hoping to have up and running , to keep it looking right will be a single speed , so will def need good PtWR for that ,


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## ozboz (13 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> Depending on your previous level of fitness, gym work for cycling purposes ranges from 'useful' to 'useless'. If you have come from a very low level of fitness, then almost any type of exercise will result in a fitness improvement. Focusing on leg work in the gym, such as weights, presses, etc is unlikely to give you any benefit from a cycling perspective, to be honest..


 Id say gym work is helping me out of sight , as said Ms 'boz is a full on and employed in the fitness field , also my Son who holds AIF certification in fitness instruction , may well differ with you , there is no quick fix , but riding this week after about 8 hours leg workouts has been a dream , my fitness was not at ground zero as I am an operative the construction ind , but sport specific ,ie cycling demands muscle groups that I have not used for years need to be challenged and honed , as said earlier, to improved PtWR , at 6"00 largish frame and 85 ks riding my 12 ish kg bike and hauling my 10 ish kg back pack I do feel on the right track , , bring on the summer and the Audax rides !!!! Can't wait !!!!


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## vickster (13 Feb 2016)

Are you really carrying 10kg in a back pack? Have a think about what that might mean for your neck, shoulders and back, not only riding but if you come off. That weight especially if contributed to by hard things with sharp corners like a laptop, I'd seriously consider a rack and panniers as well as streamlining what you are carrying

Best give it some thought but naturally it's down to your perception of risk


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## ozboz (13 Feb 2016)

10 ish kgs , I have an ex military bag , ergonomically designed , when packed and strapped properly it's doesn't feel to bad , I load it up purposely , when the longer rides begin and have a lightweight ish road bike I'll get a lighter bag and take essentials only , cans of Guinness , pork pies , egg n bacon butties etc !!


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## ayceejay (13 Feb 2016)

ozboz - are you a recently diagnosed diabetic? Muscle atrophy due to your diabetes is not a good sign and before embarking on a muscle building routine you should get this checked out. If you have the equipment check for ketones in your urine.


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## Joshua Plumtree (13 Feb 2016)

Speaking as someone who uses the gym 4 or 5 times a week, there's absolutely nothing I could do in a gym that would make me better at climbing hills! 

Gym stuff is very beneficial in lots of ways, but getting on the Strava leader board for the local hill climb is not one of them. 

The only way to get better/faster at climbing hills is to do more of this -


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## ozboz (14 Feb 2016)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Speaking as someone who uses the gym 4 or 5 times a week, there's absolutely nothing I could do in a gym that would make me better at climbing hills!
> 
> Gym stuff is very beneficial in lots of ways, but getting on the Strava leader board for the local hill climb is not one of them.
> 
> The only way to get better/faster at climbing hills is to do more of this -



Mm mm , not according to British Cycling , they actually advocate using weight training , heavy weights in the gym but hey , what do they know ? 
Just because you say there is no benefit from working out does not say or mean anything to me or maybe others who do put claim to it being beneficial , 
@acyeejay thanks for the concern , I was diagnosed some 15 years ago , so for normal everyday stuff and the small amount of MTB riding that was going on I've been able to keep it under control , but on the road means longer periods of demand on my leg muscle groups , so have since mid December struggled a fair bit climbing , but contrary to other peoples opinions , the recent combination of cycling and gym work have greatly improved my performance


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## Joshua Plumtree (14 Feb 2016)

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, if you 'study' the physique of every cyclist in a pro peloton, not one of them has engaged in any form of 'heavy' weight activity IMO!


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## huwsparky (14 Feb 2016)

I struggle to imagine that gym work can be as good for cycling performance as actually riding a bike.

How can the specific muscle groups be worked more efficiently than actually riding a bike if the objective is actually improving at riding a bike? 

However, if the op's happy his training is right then that's all that matters. Half of it's in the head anyway.


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## steve292 (14 Feb 2016)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> At the risk of opening up a can of worms, if you 'study' the physique of every cyclist in a pro peloton, not one of them has engaged in any form of 'heavy' weight activity IMO!



what, like this one..................


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## Joshua Plumtree (14 Feb 2016)

The exception that........etc etc!


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## Citius (14 Feb 2016)

ozboz said:


> Mm mm , not according to British Cycling , they actually advocate using weight training , heavy weights in the gym but hey , what do they know ?



Got a link?


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## ozboz (14 Feb 2016)

I looked at this after Xmas , from this Ms 'boz and Son gave me some starter exercise plans , and by George it has worked, 
Have a gander , then you may see where in coming from ;

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...icle/izn20130115-All-Cycling-Cross-Training-0


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## Citius (14 Feb 2016)

ozboz said:


> I looked at this after Xmas , from this Ms 'boz and Son gave me some starter exercise plans , and by George it has worked,
> Have a gander , then you may see where in coming from ;
> 
> https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/k...icle/izn20130115-All-Cycling-Cross-Training-0



I've seen that link before and I still don't see anything in there which specifically advocates strength training for the legs. Plenty of core work though. I have three friends currently on BC's academy programme and yes they do gym work regularly, but it is conditioning/core work, not strength work. They also have all day, every day of every week to train, so it makes sense to develop their overall condition for all kinds of reasons.

As has been said many times on this forum before, there is little or no evidence to suggest that strengthening your legs provides any benefit for a sport like endurance cycling, which is significantly sub-maximal in the main. Maybe have a look through some of the other threads on related topics on here for more info.


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## ayceejay (14 Feb 2016)

I just read the linked article and there is a section on strength training that Citius must have missed.


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## Citius (14 Feb 2016)

ayceejay said:


> I just read the linked article and there is a section on strength training that Citius must have missed.



I saw that section and I read it. It doesn't actually contain anything which could be regarded as strength work from a leg perspective.


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## Joshua Plumtree (14 Feb 2016)

I'm a little confused by some parts of that article, it has to be said.

Ok, fine for core work and conditioning the body in ways that can't be achieved on a bike. Ok, agree with that, but using weights (and heavy weights with low reps at that) to improve both power and endurance just seems a little weird to me. And without any increase in muscle mass! Any self respecting body builder would be crying into his/her whey protein supplement at the thought that squating large weights wasn't going to lead to a gain in muscle bulk!

As a cyclist, why not just do large geared intervals to increase power and variations thereof; specificallity being the key.

Might be fine and dandy for so called experts and pro cyclists who have almost unlimited amounts of time to play around with the latest fads, for the rest of us, who almost certainly fall into the 'time crunched cyclist' bracket, more time spent on the bike is nearly always going to be the best way to improve your cycling.

Take away my 5-6 hours a week in the gym and send me out climbing hills on a bike instead and, guess what, I'd become better at climbing hills.


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## huwsparky (14 Feb 2016)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Might be fine and dandy for so called experts and pro cyclists who have almost unlimited amounts of time to play around with the latest fads, for the rest of us, who almost certainly fall into the 'time crunched cyclist' bracket, more time spent on the bike is nearly always going to be the best way to improve your cycling.
> 
> Take away my 5-6 hours a week in the gym and send me out climbing hills on a bike instead and, guess what, I'd become better at climbing hills.



This is exactly how I look at it from my perspective. I have 6 hours a week to go cycling (or to myself in general) give or take. Can't see how spending, say two of those in the gym is going to improve my cycling more than cycling itself. Just doesn't make sense and isn't true, it can't be.


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## ayceejay (14 Feb 2016)

huwsparky said:


> This is exactly how I look at it from my perspective. I have 6 hours a week to go cycling (or to myself in general) give or take. Can't see how spending, say two of those in the gym is going to improve my cycling more than cycling itself. Just doesn't make sense and isn't true, it can't be.



What you say is totally correct huw. What should be made clear by anyone asking a question regarding improving cycling _performance _is what the goals are and why. Your situation is probably not the same as the OP's so your motivations are different too. "I have lost a certain amount of muscle in my legs and I think this interferes with my climbing ability" is a totally different scenario than the one you describe. Both situations are equally valid as long as we know what is being discussed.


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## ozboz (24 Feb 2016)

I have just read an article in this weeks CW pg 46 , written by a person named Rafik Tahraoul , (I am not sure who he is , ) according to him strength training in a gymnasium is beneficial to cyclists , or have I read it incorrectly ?


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## Citius (24 Feb 2016)

ozboz said:


> I have just read an article in this weeks CW pg 46 , written by a person named Rafik Tahraoul , (I am not sure who he is , ) according to him strength training is beneficial to cyclists , or have I read it incorrectly ?



No, you read it correctly. Unfortunately, the article is a shocking load of unsubstantiated, belief-based nonsense


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## ozboz (24 Feb 2016)

I wouldn't have thought that CW would print such if that is the case , I will put it to the Editor ,


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## Citius (24 Feb 2016)

CW articles are mainly just click bait these days, but that particular article was shameful, even for them. By all means write to him and ask him where the evidence was...


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## Dogtrousers (24 Feb 2016)

OT a bit but I've long wondered what endurance training does to my muscles. I've wondered this about both distance running and cycling.

If I were to ride a hilly 100 miler now my legs would be well sore tomorrow what with reduced winter riding and all. But come August, with more miles ridden I'll be fine.

So does something physical happen to toughen my muscles up? Or is it all down to efficient energy use and biochemical wotnot?

( Yes I am carrying some extra winter weight, but not much)


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## Citius (24 Feb 2016)

Didn't you just answer your own question there?


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## Dogtrousers (24 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> Didn't you just answer your own question there?


No


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## Citius (24 Feb 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> No



Well, I thought you did....



Dogtrousers said:


> If I were to ride a hilly 100 miler now my legs would be well sore tomorrow what with reduced winter riding and all. But come August, with more miles ridden I'll be fine.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Feb 2016)

No, that was the question, not the answer. What physical effect are those extra miles having?

Its not leg strength, I don't get bigger muscles and I doubt I could squat more or whatever it is. Its not cardio, only. I don't ride fast, and I only end up blowing hard on big hills. So what is it physically that endurance training gives that enables muscles to keep going for longer and recover more quickly? Is it purely training the metabolism to be more efficient, our is there some physical toughening, akin to strength, in the muscles?

Just curious that's all.


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## ayceejay (24 Feb 2016)

Brian Mac lists four types of endurance - aerobic - anaerobic - speed, and strength, aerobic endurance being the base for all athletic endeavour and there are specific training techniques for each. I think an improvement in all areas would assist in cycling performance at the highest level Probably all of these areas improves from just doing the activity (running cycling swimming etc) but something other would help with overall fitness.


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## ozboz (7 Mar 2016)

I contacted the Cycling Weekly team re the article I read , re fitness training etc ,I'd say that the author knows his stuff ,
here is the reply .......

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your email to Cycling Weekly. 

I can assure you that the author, Rafik Tahraoui, included only information supported by credible evidence. He is a Team GB athelete and sports scientist with MSc, Bsc (Hons) and ASCC qualifications.

If you have any specific questions, I'm sure Rafik be happy to answer them: 
www.teamnolimits.co.uk/


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2016)

So last night we went out and rode as fast as we possibly could for an hour. I know I reached my ceiling as I simply could not go any faster unless I was gasping on my faster buddy's wheel. 

So I can only conclude that the only way to become faster is to build more muscle, which will enable me to pull a higher gear. However I'm not sure my cardio-vascular system will support the extra oxygen requirement as this morning my lungs are still "disturbed" by the effort.


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## jefmcg (24 Mar 2016)

Globalti said:


> as this morning my lungs are still "disturbed" by the effort.


That doesn't sound right. Do you have asthma or some other pulmonary condition?


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## ayceejay (24 Mar 2016)

Globalti said:


> So last night we went out and rode as fast as we possibly could for an hour. I know I reached my ceiling as I simply could not go any faster unless I was gasping on my faster buddy's wheel.
> 
> So I can only conclude that the only way to become faster is to build more muscle, which will enable me to pull a higher gear. However I'm not sure my cardio-vascular system will support the extra oxygen requirement as this morning my lungs are still "disturbed" by the effort.


I think you have that back to front, if you can't supply the muscle you have with the necessary oxygen how will having more muscle improve that?


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2016)

_That doesn't sound right. Do you have asthma or some other pulmonary condition?_

No. Thanks. After a big effort I get irritated bronchia and I produce a little green phlegm, which I take as a natural reaction to the cold air and natural cleansing. Taking ibuprofen helps as it's an anti-inflammatory. I don't want to get labelled with something and put on an inhaler, my brother in the USA had the same and realised after a few weeks that there was actually nothing wrong with him and the medical profession was shafting his insurers. Same thing as when they diagnosed his tingling palms as MS and put him on monthly shots of beta-interferon at $5000 a go, which he also later realised was making no difference. In the UK they have given up on the asthma disagnoses and recently it's been revealed that over a million adults may have been wrongly diagnosed. I can't help wondering if the same isn't happening with some of the 500 new cases of diabetes a day.


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2016)

ayceejay said:


> I think you have that back to front, if you can't supply the muscle you have with the necessary oxygen how will having more muscle improve that?



Er.... I thought that was what I wrote!


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## ozboz (24 Mar 2016)

There has been quite a lot of debate as to how the best way to build and sustain muscle for cycling, I personally use the gym and on the road/track and ever since I began conditioning in the gym my overall performance on the road/track has well improved , hence the original post .
Ive been dogged for two weeks with a viral chest and airway virus I caught in Newcastle,( some form of broncia ) so got to get on with something now , the gym is first for a week and then on the road ,
I have included this link , it is interesting , although no doubt some may well pull it to pieces

http://balancedtrainingsolutions.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/muscles-used-when-pedaling.html?m=1


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## ayceejay (24 Mar 2016)

Globalti said:


> Er.... I thought that was what I wrote!


Then I apologize


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## OskarTennisChampion (26 Mar 2016)

If you are a regular cyclist,then muscle mass will develop(in the right muscles)
I find fuelling your body the right way before and during(on a break), benefits you on the climbs.
I have porridge oats about an hour before I go out,and it gives me a slow release energy.
On a break,I have a cereal bar and just some orange barley.
I went out today without having the oats,and my legs ran out of puff 
Maybe coincedence,but it's never happened before .
Just another angle.


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## ozboz (26 Mar 2016)

I do not think it's coincidence, porridge is also one of my ' tigers in the tank' ! I like to do eggs , boiled or scrambled, or just whisked in with eggs , Bananas I have on route , and or choco milk 
And like you say , a good hour before the ride ,


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## Joshua Plumtree (27 Mar 2016)

Globalti said:


> So last night we went out and rode as fast as we possibly could for an hour. I know I reached my ceiling as I simply could not go any faster unless I was gasping on my faster buddy's wheel.
> 
> So I can only conclude that the only way to become faster is to build more muscle, which will enable me to pull a higher gear. However I'm not sure my cardio-vascular system will support the extra oxygen requirement as this morning my lungs are still "disturbed" by the effort.



If this were me I would conclude that my functional threshold power was less than my mate. Don't think adding more muscle would make any difference unless it were as a by product of training to increase your threshold power.
You're always gonna get that searing lung sensation when you've been pushing as hard as you can for a sustained length of time, whatever your power output.


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