# Mechanical Disc Brakes vs. Hydraulic



## Zenroad (18 Oct 2012)

I'm now shopping for my first set of disc brakes. Just getting into it. I'd like to hear the pros and cons of mechanical disc brakes vs. hydraulic. And what are some of the best of each? Any thoughts on Shimano Deore mechanical brakes? I've read that Avid are probably the best. True?


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## Andy_R (18 Oct 2012)

Avid bb7s...easy to set up, easy to adjust (once they're set up, no tools required), easy to repair. Stop a fat lad on a bike(me) like nobody's business.


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## Cubist (18 Oct 2012)

If your budget will stretch to it get Deore M596. You can get them for silly money from some of the German websites.

They're £67 for both the front and rear brakes at Roseversand.com or bike-discount.de plus shipping. Avid BB7 are £48 an end, so quite a saving!The levers will need swapping over as they are European setup, but you'll need to shorten the hoses anyway, so do both at the same time. They come with the necessary shortening kit and instructions .

Buy rotors separately, or from Ebay/bikefridge/superstar components. Deore are fit and forget, whereas Avid BBs need adjusting and faffage.


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## ufkacbln (18 Oct 2012)

Both are fine

I prefer the simplicity of cables to faffing around with bleeding brake lines


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## Zenroad (18 Oct 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> Both are fine
> 
> I prefer the simplicity of cables to faffing around with bleeding brake lines


 
Thanks, Cunobelin. I was thinking the same thing. I already know that I'm NOT going to want to mess around with brake fluid, bleeding, etc. Something I didn't mention before is that this is for a trekking bike, not a hardcore offroad bike, so there won't be a lot of braking going on. And plenty of time at the end of each day to make any needed adjustments.

I've read quite a lot of good stuff about the Avid BB7s. They seem like the gold standard of mechanical disc brakes. True? But their levers are not so good, eh? I can run Avid BB7s with Shimano XT levers, right? I've had XT levers for many years, and they've always been right on.


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## Cubist (18 Oct 2012)

You bleed hydraulic disc brakes once a year. You have to adjust cable brakes every couple of rides. 

Hydraulic really are fit and forget. It doesn't matter what bike it's on, a hydraulic disc brake will out perform a cable/BB one any day of the week, and far simpler to maintain.


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## ufkacbln (18 Oct 2012)

A personal choice


All three of my trikes have BB7s, and with good cables they are fine with the Avid Levers, I use the ones that allow you to adjust reach / tension..

As for adjustment, all you really need to do is to wind in the adjusters every hundred miles or so.

I gave up on hydraulics as they require far more maintenance


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## simon.r (18 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> ...a hydraulic disc brake will out perform a cable/BB one any day of the week, and far simpler to maintain.


 
I disagree about the performance. I have a set of Shimano hydraulics on one bike (not sure which model, but I suspect the cheapest) and I've been very unimpressed with them. They work well enough, but there's very little 'feel 'to them. Avid mechanicals on another bike work just as well and feel much nicer to use.

I'm sure there are better hydraulic systems, but hydraulic dooesn't automatically equal better than mechanical.


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## Cubist (18 Oct 2012)

There you go, completely polarised opinion


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## HovR (18 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> You bleed hydraulic disc brakes once a year. *You have to adjust cable brakes every couple of rides.*
> 
> Hydraulic really are fit and forget. It doesn't matter what bike it's on, a hydraulic disc brake will out perform a cable/BB one any day of the week, and far simpler to maintain.


 
Whilst I have no experience with long-term usage of hydro brakes, so I can't comment on them, the bold is a bit of an exaggeration! Even the cheap Tektro cable discs on a friends Carrera (which I do all the maintenance on) only require a few minutes adjustment with an allen key every 3 to 6 months.


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## Cubist (18 Oct 2012)

HovR said:


> Whilst I have no experience with long-term usage of hydro brakes, so I can't comment on them, the bold is a bit of an exaggeration! Even the cheap Tektro cable discs on a friends Carrera (which I do all the maintenance on) only require a few minutes adjustment with an allen key every 3 to 6 months.


OK, hands up, mea culpa. I once serviced three bikes that had mechanical discs, and dind't enjoy all teh buggering about with pad wear adjusters etc etc. 

But seriously, people are so scared of hydraulic brakes, imagining all sort s of horror stories. If you avoid Avids which are a pain to set up properly, and go for a recent Deore (M596) you'll need to fit them, which takes five to ten minutes on a disc-equipped bike, centre them using the various methods available, and then ride. You need to clean them occasionally to stop the pistons seizing, but other than that it really is low to no maintenance.


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## HovR (18 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> OK, hands up, mea culpa. I once serviced three bikes that had mechanical discs, and dind't enjoy all teh buggering about with pad wear adjusters etc etc.
> 
> But seriously, people are so scared of hydraulic brakes, imagining all sort s of horror stories. If you avoid Avids which are a pain to set up properly, and go for a recent Deore (M596) you'll need to fit them, which takes five to ten minutes on a disc-equipped bike, centre them using the various methods available, and then ride. You need to clean them occasionally to stop the pistons seizing, but other than that it really is low to no maintenance.


 
I'd say that they probably require less maintenance than V-Brakes (always seem to be going through V-Brake pads so quickly..), but a bit more than hydros to account for pad wear. They're also a little bit more awkward to centre (adds a few minutes to setup time) as only one side is actuated, but once set up it's really not too bad. 

I'd love a good set of hydro brakes on the MTB, but at the moment the budget is going towards the road bike!


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## 02GF74 (20 Oct 2012)

I'm in the Cubist camp - the bleeding of the brakes can be a pain, especially those without a separate reservoir requiring the use of syringes, but once that is that, maybe 15 or 20 mins, it is done for a very long time.


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## Peteaud (20 Oct 2012)

Deore - fantastic
Avid Elixir - cr@p

My deore on the hybrid have been fantastic and are easy to bleed.

The avid on the MTB are a pita and will get binned. Ive had constant problems with them since day 1 and i dont really hammer the bike.


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## Moodyman (20 Oct 2012)

02GF74 said:


> I'm in the Cubist camp - the bleeding of the brakes can be a pain, especially those without a separate reservoir requiring the use of syringes, but once that is that, maybe 15 or 20 mins, it is done for a very long time.



Me too. I've Deore hydros on one bike and Deore mechanical on the other. The mechanical need adjusting every 200 miles to keep them sharp. The hydros have been bled three times in 3 years. The only downside for hydros is you can't put the bike upside down or on its side for fear of getting air in them. This might be problem if the bike is transported a lot.


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## Peteaud (20 Oct 2012)

Moodyman said:


> Me too. I've Deore hydros on one bike and Deore mechanical on the other. The mechanical need adjusting every 200 miles to keep them sharp. The hydros have been bled three times in 3 years. The only downside for hydros is you can't put the bike upside down or on its side for fear of getting air in them. This might be problem if the bike is transported a lot.


 
Thats the biggest problem with the Avids.


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## Red Light (20 Oct 2012)

I haven't bled the hydraulic discs on my bike for years and they work just fine. Brake cables OTOH are a constant source of problems IME from needing regular lubricating to stop them gunging up, regular adjustment to take out cable stretch and pad wear and regular replacement because despite all the lubrication they degrade fairly fast.

I've just replace the Avid BB7s on my commuter bike with Hope Minis because on the Avids you could pull the levers to the bars as the cable stretched even with the pads set very close so they bite as soon as the brake lever was pulled. The Hopes the lever goes in a little way and then just goes solid with more pressure giving more braking. My confidence in the braking is so much higher and the feel so much better. And I don't get the intermittent pads rubbing on disc noises of pads set very close to the rotor.


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## xxmimixx (20 Oct 2012)

what about the Shimano CX75 disc brakes?


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## shouldbeinbed (20 Oct 2012)

Moodyman said:


> Me too. I've Deore hydros on one bike and Deore mechanical on the other. The mechanical need adjusting every 200 miles to keep them sharp. The hydros have been bled three times in 3 years. The only downside for hydros is you can't put the bike upside down or on its side for fear of getting air in them. This might be problem if the bike is transported a lot.


 
I've got shimano M486 hydros on my Ute bike, it lives nose up hnging on the wall at home and the brakes are well enough sealed to remain crisp and sharp & only need bleeding as part of its big annual service


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Oct 2012)

My bikes always get maintained upside down and I've never had an air issue. It's the first time I've heard of it. As for bleeding hydro brakes, dead easy....take the lid off the reservoir, top up the fluid if needed, cable tie the lever back overnight....job done.


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## ufkacbln (20 Oct 2012)

Catch a hydraulic cable on a protruding branch or similar

Now do a roadside repair......

I once toured some 200 miles before finding a shop that stocked the appropriate parts and were willing to fit


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## Andy_R (20 Oct 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> Catch a hydraulic cable on a protruding branch or similar
> 
> Now do a roadside repair......
> 
> I once toured some 200 miles before finding a shop that stocked the appropriate parts and were willing to fit


+1

I did the last half of the C2C with just a front brake because of a "snagged" hydro hose. when I got home, I stuck the M775s on the 'bay and ordered a set of BB7s. Carry a spare brake cable, no worries about fixing brakes when away from home, and believe me, when they're properly installed with good quality cables in decent housings they're every bit as good at stopping me as any hydro. No tools required to adjust them either, just a "clicky" wheel on either side of the caliper to wind the pads in or out. As far as I'm concerend, that amounts to almost zero "faffage".


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Oct 2012)

Andy_R said:


> +1
> 
> I did the last half of the C2C with just a front brake because of a "snagged" hydro hose. when I got home, I stuck the M775s on the 'bay and ordered a set of BB7s. Carry a spare brake cable, no worries about fixing brakes when away from home, and believe me, when they're properly installed with good quality cables in decent housings they're every bit as good at stopping me as any hydro. No tools required to adjust them either, just a "clicky" wheel on either side of the caliper to wind the pads in or out. As far as I'm concerend, that amounts to almost zero "faffage".



No way are avid bb7's as powerful as my hope 4 pots


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## Andy_R (20 Oct 2012)

bromptonfb said:


> No way are avid bb7's as powerful as my hope 4 pots


 
Maybe so, but they provide enough stopping power to lock my wheels if I need them to, and give me enough feedback to tell me when that's about to happen, so what more do I need? (Don't forget, bicycle brakes are only as powerful as the person squeezing the lever and the mechanical advantage of said lever, so your hopes may require less effort, but are no more or less "powerful")


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Oct 2012)

Andy_R said:


> Maybe so, but they provide enough stopping power to lock my wheels if I need them to, and give me enough feedback to tell me when that's about to happen, so what more do I need? (Don't forget, bicycle brakes are only as powerful as the person squeezing the lever and the mechanical advantage of said lever, so your hopes may require less effort, but are no more or less "powerful")



I don't disagree but bb7's just don't have enough power or power modulation for me. at 18 stone on the Mary townley loop or no brake fade at the bottom of Manchester road (5 mile 13% to 10% descent with loads of junctions) I need both.


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## Andy_R (20 Oct 2012)

bromptonfb said:


> I don't disagree but bb7's just don't have enough power or power modulation for me. at 18 stone on the Mary townley loop or no brake fade at the bottom of Manchester road (5 mile 13% to 10% descent with loads of junctions) I need both.


ah....at 18 stone you may require a little more stopping power then I do at 15 stone......fair point


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## 02GF74 (20 Oct 2012)

Andy_R said:


> +1
> 
> I did the last half of the C2C with just a front brake because of a "snagged" hydro hose. when I got home, I ".


 
but there can be pleny of components that can fail that would leave you with a long walk home. the chances of that happening are pretty remote; it is still well worth the benefit of hydraulic brakes for the tiny chance the hose gets snagged.


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## Andy_R (20 Oct 2012)

02GF74 said:


> but there can be pleny of components that can fail that would leave you with a long walk home. the chances of that happening are pretty remote; it is still well worth the benefit of hydraulic brakes for the tiny chance the hose gets snagged.


I've had the opportunity to try both, good hydro and good cable. For simplicty of repair and ability to make full road side repairs, (not a "get you home" bodge) I much prefer the BB7. Please tell me what the "benefits" of hydraulic brakes are? What do they give me that my BB7's don't? (Real benefits as opposed to percieved ones)


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## Drago (23 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> You bleed hydraulic disc brakes once a year. You have to adjust cable brakes every couple of rides.
> 
> Hydraulic really are fit and forget. It doesn't matter what bike it's on, a hydraulic disc brake will out perform a cable/BB one any day of the week, and far simpler to maintain.


Shinano brakes use mineral oil instead of DOT brake fluid so are much more forgiving in this regard.

However, DOT hydraulics are far from fit and forget, especially as they age. Annual fluid change and then bleeding, periodic new piston seals etc, relatively vulnerable and fragile levers when compared to mechanical systems, make most hydraulic systems a long way from "fit and forget" if you want them to last and to perform consistently well. Some older Avids, older Hopes like the appalling multi-piston M4s are appallingly finniky to keep on song.

If you can afford them Shimano XT hydraulics won't get you laid but are probably the best combination of performance and reliability, or the Deore system if you're a bit pressed for cash.


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## Cubist (23 Oct 2012)

That's what I said.


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## Drago (23 Oct 2012)

And I, in my typical long winded to the point of doubtless boring you to sleep are you still awake and reading this fashion, disagreed with the ''fit and forget' phrase, especially with respect to systems using DOT brake fluid.


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## Cubist (24 Oct 2012)

I meant the bit about Shimanos. I recommended Deores, and would tell anyone to slam their genitalia in cupboard doors before fitting Avids, I have SLX on the Cotic and XT on the Canyon, and ask myself why anyone else would ever consider making or selling Disc brakes with competition like that. 

The current Hope Tech M4 on my lad's Ragley need a periodic faff and fettle, but Hope ownership comes with a price. I suppose I can live with that for the looks and function. 

I'm tickled to see that the cost of Avid BB7s are the same as Deores by the time you get them from Germany and fit rotors, but cannot see why anyone would fear hydraulics so much that they would choose BB7 over Deore


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## Andy_R (24 Oct 2012)

I don't "fear" hydraulics, it's just personal experience. If something goes wrong on a long ride/tour, I can fix it there and then with my BB7s. Nowadays I'm a great believer in "Keep it simple, stupid"


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## Cubist (24 Oct 2012)

Fair enough I suppose, although I reckon at a push a small bottle of fluid and a spare hose would be a good backstop on a wilderness tour.


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## byegad (24 Oct 2012)

BB7s are great, however avoid BB5s like the plague. How one firm can make disc brakes so different in performance and ease of adjustment is beyond me.

As to adjustment intervals... After 1000 on BB5s with the oads worn out and adjustment needed far too frequently I swapped to BB7 and 5000 miles later I've adjusted the BB7s once and they still have plenty of pad left. Same trike, same roder, same roads and conditions. BB7s rock!


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## RiflemanSmith (24 Oct 2012)

bromptonfb said:


> My bikes always get maintained upside down and I've never had an air issue. It's the first time I've heard of it. As for bleeding hydro brakes, dead easy....take the lid off the reservoir, top up the fluid if needed, cable tie the lever back overnight....job done.


This.
I ride round my site at work when locking up, I lay my bike down on it's side at least 15 times a day/night, I always put my bike upside down to work on and clean and I do that a couple of times a month.
I have had no issues with air in the system.


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## Drago (24 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> I meant the bit about Shimanos. I recommended Deores, and would tell anyone to slam their genitalia in cupboard doors before fitting Avids,


Roger that Bro! I got Hope M4 multi-piston jobs on the commuter, and while they look bling and stop like a good 'un they are a maintenance nightmare.


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## Dan151 (28 Oct 2012)

I have avid elixir brakes and they do the job for me even hammering down trails. Bit of a chew on to bleed but stop me well enough of the dirt


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## potsy (28 Oct 2012)

byegad said:


> BB7s are great, however avoid BB5s like the plague. How one firm can make disc brakes so different in performance and ease of adjustment is beyond me.
> 
> As to adjustment intervals... After 1000 on BB5s with the oads worn out and adjustment needed far too frequently I swapped to BB7 and 5000 miles later I've adjusted the BB7s once and they still have plenty of pad left. Same trike, same roder, same roads and conditions. BB7s rock!


Interesting stuff byegad, was there a performance increase too or just the decrease in faff levels?
It's a swap I'm thinking about on my CX bike.


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## byegad (29 Oct 2012)

A performance difference is there. I feel it more from the reduced hand pressure needed for a given deceleration. This, I feel, is because the pads are substantially larger.


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