# 20 cm away from death



## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

I'm still a bit shaken. This morning I was entering a roundabout at about 15 mph. Nothing else was on the roundabout at the time. I am going straight on. On the next entrance to the roundabout a HGV (oil tanker) is approaching. We make eye contact and he starts slowing. The next thing I know he is entering the roundabout and he is turning right (cutting straight across me). I can't go ahead of him, I can't go behind him. I brake hard, and my back wheel looses grip (sub zero this morning). I manage to stay upright (thank God!) and stop just short of him. He continues to tun and due to his size his rear wheels get closer and closer to me. The pass less than 20cm from me and my bike. He disappears off leaving me stood in the middle of the roundabout in complete shock.

When I get to the meeting I was going to they commented that I looked white.

So I'm just having something to eat, I'll be phoning the police (I have the reg but no markings on the tanker) and then I'll get the video up. 

I honestly thought my time was up.


Edit: Video deleted at request of police, due to ongoing investigation.

Edit (December 2010): The video has been reposted due to outcome. See below.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqACT1jNV0[/media]


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## gaz (1 Mar 2010)

glad to hear your ok, and i hope the video footage shows how bad his driving was and the police do something about it.


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## thomas (1 Mar 2010)

Glad you're okay!! I know how scary a close pass from a lorry can be, so I can only imagine how horrible it must of been.

You sound very lucky!


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> glad to hear your ok, and i hope the video footage shows how bad his driving was and the police do something about it.




Oh the video footage is very clear, it was a bright morning. Due to me attending a meeting elsewhere I set off later this morning, so plenty of light. Despite this I had my two front lights on and my hi-viz jacket on. There is no way he didn't see me. We made eye contact FFS!


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## ianrauk (1 Mar 2010)

Sounds nasty. Not a good start to the week.


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## swee'pea99 (1 Mar 2010)

Jesus! Terrifying. Glad you're ok, and I hope he loses his job - seriously. No-one like that should be in command of a vehicle like that.


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## Debian (1 Mar 2010)

Shite!!!

Terrifying experience and I'm glad you're OK.

I loathe roundabouts, when negotiating one I'm always convinced that something similar to your experience will happen to me. So far it hasn't.....

This will have given you a real shock, take it easy for a while and let your mental well being recover.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Thanks guys.

I'm just off the phone to the police, so officers will pop around to my house tonight to have a chat about it and look at the video.

I'll sort out the video now.


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## upsidedown (1 Mar 2010)

Glad it worked out ok Mags, must have been terrifying. I thought those tanker drivers were supposed to be very well trained ? Doesn't sound llike you could have done much differently to avoid it.


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## Bollo (1 Mar 2010)

Glad to hear you're ok maggers. It's incidents like this that make the difference between annoyed and terrified very stark indeed.

Personally, I'd hold off posting the footage until you've had a response from plod. Apart from attracting the usual pond scum, it might leave you open to accusations of publicity seeking. I don't mean this in the col/hippo sense, but for something this serious I feel its best to give the police a chance to do the right thing before raising the anti. Just my 1.7 pence.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Mar 2010)

Yikes - glad to hear you're still with us, Mags. Let's hope the Police take it seriously and prosecute the idiot for Driving without Due Care. Prats like that shouldn't be on the road, much less in the capacity of a "professional driver".


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> Glad to hear you're ok maggers. It's incidents like this that make the difference between annoyed and terrified very stark indeed.
> 
> Personally, I'd hold off posting the footage until you've had a response from plod. Apart from attracting the usual pond scum, it might leave you open to accusations of publicity seeking. I don't mean this in the col/hippo sense, but for something this serious I feel its best to give the police a chance to do the right thing before raising the anti. Just my 1.7 pence.



I know what your saying Bollo, but posting on the web is what I do, and when you see this, including my screams (very embarrassing but it emphases just how concerned I was) it will be obvious that publicity was the last thing on my mind.

I want you guys to see this. Making it public will make me feel better about it.


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## wafflycat (1 Mar 2010)

Glad you're ok.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Mar 2010)

... awaits with baited breath...


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## HobbesChoice (1 Mar 2010)

I'm so glad to hear you're ok, but what a dreadful experience.

Good luck with your police report. I'm sure, once they see your footage, they will take it seriously.

Things can only get better now - I hope. Good luck with your ride home tonight too. I doubt that'll be easy if you're still feeling shaken.


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## Bollo (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I know what your saying Bollo, but posting on the web is what I do, and when you see this, including my screams (very embarrassing but it emphases just how concerned I was) it will be obvious that publicity was the last thing on my mind.
> 
> I want you guys to see this. Making it public will make me feel better about it.


No worries. Get it up then. I managed a manly "GRWAAA!" on my nearest death experience, so it'll be good to compare it with your effete Glaswegian girl-scream.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> No worries. Get it up then. I managed a manly "GRWAAA!" on my nearest death experience, so it'll be good to compare it with your effete Glaswegian girl-scream.



Oh no. Towards the end as the wheels get closer to me I let out definite squeal. Very embarrassing.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

HobbesChoice said:


> I'm so glad to hear you're ok, but what a dreadful experience.
> 
> Good luck with your police report. I'm sure, once they see your footage, they will take it seriously.
> 
> Things can only get better now - I hope. Good luck with your ride home tonight too. I doubt that'll be easy if you're still feeling shaken.




Thanks, but despite my propensity to squeal , I'm actually ok about it now. Now that I have acted on it and I know he will be reprimanded (he will, I'll make sure of it) I've settled back down.

I love my cycling too much to let something like this upset me.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Right. the video is online now, here. The quality will take a while to improve. 

I challenge anyone to tell me I was making too much of this etc.


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## thomas (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Right. the video is online now, here. The quality will take a while to improve.
> 
> I challenge anyone to tell me I was making too much of this etc.



Bloody hell. Not something I would particularly have seen coming and bloody scarey just watching it.


If the Police don't take this seriously, they need a good slap around the face. Let us know how it goes!!


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## Bollo (1 Mar 2010)

Eff You See Kay!


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## thegrumpybiker (1 Mar 2010)

Holy f*ckin crap!
I'M shaking, and I watched it from the safety of my armchair.
Seriously hoping there's a loss of licence here, the twat shouldn't be left in charge of a Scalextric, let alone an HGV.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Mar 2010)

it looks scary. i have my camera in the middle. can you put yours on the left side of your helmet? just to give more perspective on how close motons get. it looked close with the camera on existing side, it may have looked even closer with the camera on the left. hope the police do something, even if it's only to warn him. just imagine if you were a beginner or elderly or just didn't see him?


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Aye it was close. Being sub zero, although the roads weren't icy as such, they were slippy. For the last few meters my back wheel was skidding, luckily I kept the bike upright. By the end I'd turned my wheel to the right. Had I kept it pointing forwards it would have made contact.


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## semislickstick (1 Mar 2010)

Holy Crap! 

Do you feel it was on purpose or that he was on auto pilot? Do/can Police check the tachograph after these sorts of run ins?


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

Glad you are OK Maggers,

I had a similar event where I was going right a roundabout. After 2 exits a 4x4 came on straight at me without giving way. Thank god I was in the Primary and it was dry, they had just enough time to stop but there was only inch's it. It all seems like it happened in slow motion and I could see no get out. Interestingly the driver disappeared as fast as they could but the following driver followed me into a housing estate to check if I was OK and offered to be a witness. I didn't have a camera on that day but I've a feeling that the cops wouldn't have done anything anyway as the driver never actually killed me. What I'm trying to say I think you're doing the right thing posting it on youtube and as you say sometimes it helps just to have a stress release valve.

Edit: By the time I typed you'd already posted the video.


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## ianrauk (1 Mar 2010)

Wow nasty... very nasty indeed.. WTF was the driver thinking?


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## fossyant (1 Mar 2010)

Yikes...


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## chillyuk (1 Mar 2010)

Crikey. I think we can forgive the swearing, the video frightened me sitting here.

Whatever the outcome re: the police, the important thing is you are OK thankfully.


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

What a ****. 

At least he won't be able to blame the low sun - the film makes that clear (although he will no doubt try). 

Does that entry (the one the HGV used) to the RaB have any deflection - it looks almost straight on?


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## Crackle (1 Mar 2010)

Whoo! That was close. I echo the sentiments you expressed in the video.

No made up drama in that one queen


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

HLaB said:


> What I'm trying to say I think you're doing the right thing posting it on youtube and as you say sometimes it helps just to have a stress release valve.



Aye. To be fair to Bollo, I know where he is coming from. Some might think I'm looking for some sort of recognition. However, I honestly couldn't care less. In fact there are things going on at work that if they work will get me significantly more recognition and a better type of recognition!

Anyway, it makes me feel better having you guys look at it. In some ways I feel better when others react to it as I did. At least I know I'm not just being a big girls blouse!


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> What a ****.
> 
> At least he won't be able to blame the low sun - the film makes that clear (although he will no doubt try).
> 
> Does that entry to the RaB have any deflection - it looks almost straight on?




This is the roundabout on google maps. I'm coming from the north and continuing south. he is coming from the Glasgow Road entrance.

Yes I was glad to see the video showed the direction of the sun, although we would have been able to work out where it was anyway.

Both my front lights were on as well (although they didn't need to be). The B&M was on full (about 200 lumens) and the hope 1 was on medium (100 lumens?).


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## ChrisKH (1 Mar 2010)

ianrauk said:


> Wow nasty... very nasty indeed.. WTF was the driver thinking?



Doesn't look like he was thinking at all.


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## hulver (1 Mar 2010)

F'kin ell. That was close.

I take it you had a change of clothes at work? I'd have needed one.


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## jeltz (1 Mar 2010)

Holy shoot that was close! Scary to watch, let alone be on the receiving end. 

That driver needs to be made aware of how close he got to widowing your wife and denying your kids their dad just because they wouldn't follow the rules of the road.

Glad you weren't a few feet further on or travelling a couple of MPH faster.


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> This is the roundabout on google maps. I'm coming from the north and continuing south. he is coming from the Glasgow Road entrance.



Did I miss the link to Google maps/Streetview?


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## joebingo (1 Mar 2010)

That driver needs to be taken of the roads. 'kin terrifying, glad you're ok Mag.


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

Holy Sh1t maggers; I don't think anybody can blame you for freaking out.

Look similar to my encounter but I was about 2 bike length further forward directly in front of the driver. In my case I kinda blamed the central island (one of those heavily planted types to reduce visibility and encourage folk to slow down) in addition to the SMIDSY but in your case there was no excuse.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Did I miss the link to Google maps/Streetview?




You didn't. I forgot to post it.

Here it is.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

No it's not. Hold on. I'll get it sorted in a second...


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Mar 2010)

BTW, seriously now.... do not show your Wife that footage!!!! If she's anything like mine she'll be worrying enough about you being on a bike anyway!


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

How do you get Google maps to give you a link to a point which you haven't started from?


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

I think you just click on link and copy and paste, yip thats it.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Aye I just worked that out! Here is the roundabout.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> BTW, seriously now.... do not show your Wife that footage!!!! If she's anything like mine she'll be worrying enough about you being on a bike anyway!




Bit difficult that, as the police will be arriving at my house later for a chat.

She should be fine. She'a a tough Lancashire lass!


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## Tinuts (1 Mar 2010)

Never been quite that close to meeting the grim one just yet.

Glad you're OK and hope you've recovered your composure by now!

I'm sure we'd all miss your vids, not to mention your insightful comments, if you got squished!


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## wafflycat (1 Mar 2010)

Good grief... that driver needs to have his licence removed. Glad you are ok. I can understand the language, Mags, indeed, if it were me, I'd have descended into a particularly colourful 'North Shields Fishwife' mode.


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## arallsopp (1 Mar 2010)

Bl00dy hell Mag. That's awful. Worst bit has to be the gasps in the closing seconds after the adrenalin starts to desert you. I'd have been sobbing at the edge of the road, no doubt.

So glad you're ok.


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## Tinuts (1 Mar 2010)

Geez....Just watched the vid. Word's fail me.


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## trickletreat (1 Mar 2010)

You are a very lucky chap, and almost became a statistic. That has made me go cold watching it. I do hope that this incident is pursued and a prosecution brought. The driver should be off the road for that.

Don't apologise for the swearing, but a bit of heavy smoking might make it's delivery sound better...

Hope posting this incident helps you to move on chap.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm honestly fine now, just determined to get something done about this. 

It was quite an important meeting this morning, and I am now waiting back to hear how a follow on meeting went, so I'm finding it hard to concentrate on work with everything that happened today!


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## gavintc (1 Mar 2010)

Wow, that was one of the scariest moments I have seen. I really felt for you there - good reaction as well. You did not have long to make a decision.


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## hackbike 666 (1 Mar 2010)

Im really sorry mags.We all have nasty ones from time to time.

That lorry driving was so irresponsible.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

gavintc said:


> Wow, that was one of the scariest moments I have seen. I really felt for you there - good reaction as well. You did not have long to make a decision.




Thanks for the compliment!  However, to be fair I had clocked the HGV before it comes into the view of the camera, so I probably had a little bit more time, although it was one of those instances where: you REALLY don't think it will pull out....it REEEEEEALLY won't....oh bu@@er! 

What I was impressed with was the fact I stayed upright. If you listen carefully to the video you can actually hear my rear wheel skid just before I stop. The road was certainly slippery!


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Im really sorry mags.We all have nasty ones from time to time.
> 
> That lorry driving was so irresponsible.




Aye hack. It happens, and the vast majority of the time we live to tell the tail just as I did today.

It really does happen in slow motion. It felt like I was braking for ages, but watching the video it wasn't nearly as long. 

I'm stil waiting for Mr Hippo to come along and tell me I'm worrying about nothing and he has to deal with drivers like that 59 times a day...blah, blah, blah!


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## MacB (1 Mar 2010)

Well done for keeping your head Mags, outrageous driving from the lorry. If you'd not got on the brakes so fast we'd have been reading about cyclist killed in collision with lorry. Then all the usual rubbish about how you'd probably been doing something stupid like undertaking.

Make sure the police follow this one up.

Oh yeah, I'm just in from a ride, I'm glad I didn't watch the vid first!


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## hackbike 666 (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Aye hack. It happens, and the vast majority of the time we live to tell the tail just as I did today.
> 
> It really does happen in slow motion. It felt like I was braking for ages, but watching the video it wasn't nearly as long.
> 
> I'm stil waiting for Mr Hippo to come along and tell me I'm worrying about nothing and he has to deal with drivers like that 59 times a day...blah, blah, blah!




It's funny how slow motion works...I've been in plenty of scrapes and at the time when it all looks desperate and hopeless a sort of miracle happens.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

MacB said:


> Well done for keeping your head Mags, outrageous driving from the lorry. If you'd not got on the brakes so fast we'd have been reading about cyclist killed in collision with lorry. Then all the usual rubbish about how you'd probably been doing something stupid like undertaking.
> 
> Make sure the police follow this one up.
> 
> Oh yeah, I'm just in from a ride, I'm glad I didn't watch the vid first!



Aye, and I'm glad I recently upgraded my pads from the ones that came with the bike to Koolstop dual compound pads!


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## Brahan (1 Mar 2010)

Nothing spectacular really......just another day in the life of a cyclist. Sad that we have to put up with this level of stupidity and neglect of responsibility on an ongoing basis.

I'm glad you're ok man and I really hope that you get some mileage from the police.


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Aye I just worked that out! Here is the roundabout.



Thanks. Just checked Street View - has the road sign obscuring traffic to the right (coming down from Glasgow Rd) been removed - I hope so. If not, I suspect he will say there was no eye contact and his view was impaired (i.e he could not see the circulating cyclist).

See pic of rear of sign here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=g64...ypKZ0qd18_XRfVrIFOowwQ&cbp=12,232.67,,0,31.52


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Brahan said:


> Nothing spectacular really......just another day in the life of a cyclist. Sad that we have to put up with this level of stupidity and neglect of responsibility on an ongoing basis.
> 
> I'm glad you're ok man and I really hope that you get some mileage from the police.




Umm, err.. you're not Mr Hippo are you? Nothing spectacular! Bl**dy hell I wouldn't want to cycle in your neck of the woods! That is by far the worst, BY FAR the worst incident I have had in 4.5 years of daily cycle commuting. 

To anyone new reading this thread, this is NOT a common incident. It is very rare, thank goodness!


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## 4F (1 Mar 2010)

What a nobber, glad you are OK


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## hackbike 666 (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> To anyone new reading this thread, this is NOT a common incident. It is very rare, thank goodness!



True.(touchwood)


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## 4F (1 Mar 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> BTW, seriously now.... do not show your Wife that footage!!!! If she's anything like mine she'll be worrying enough about you being on a bike anyway!



+1 there are somethings that are best not told to her indoors


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Thanks. Just checked Street View - has the road sign obscuring traffic to the right (coming down from Glasgow Rd) been removed - I hope so. *If not, I suspect he will say there was no eye contact and his view was impaired (i.e he could not see the circulating cyclist).*


Absolutely no excuse from his vantage point in the cab of an HGV though.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Thanks. Just checked Street View - has the road sign obscuring traffic to the right (coming down from Glasgow Rd) been removed - I hope so. If not, I suspect he will say there was no eye contact and his view was impaired (i.e he could not see the circulating cyclist).
> 
> See pic of rear of sign here:



It is still there, but that is absolutely no excuse. I eyeballed him before he reached that point, and I am certain he eyeballed me. You have plenty of vision of my entrance before you reach that sign.

If the sign was restricting his vision (which it wasn't) then he should have been more cautious on his approach in the first place...although I know I am preaching to the converted!


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> Absolutely no excuse from his vantage point in the cab of an HGV though.



Of course, just priming Magnatom for the usual excuses! That said, if the sign is still there (and it looks to me that the Rab has been redesigned over the years) it is poorly placed as it will interfere with approaching car/van sight lines.


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Thanks. Just checked Street View - has the road sign obscuring traffic to the right (coming down from Glasgow Rd) been removed - I hope so. If not, I suspect he will say there was no eye contact and his view was impaired (i.e he could not see the circulating cyclist).
> 
> See pic of rear of sign here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=g64...ypKZ0qd18_XRfVrIFOowwQ&cbp=12,232.67,,0,31.52





Sh4rkyBloke said:


> Absolutely no excuse from his vantage point in the cab of an HGV though.


+1, I paused the video on 27 secs and it looks like the signs still there but you can also see the HGV in relation to it and mags, IMO there is no way it caused a visibility problem.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

HLaB said:


> +1, I paused the video on 27 secs and it looks like the signs still there but you can also see the HGV in relation to it and mags, IMO there is no way it caused a visibility problem.




Indeed. Looking at the video, I was well on the roundabout when he entered and I would have been to the front right of his cab, so no excuse for not seeing me.

It was a good spot though Origamist.


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## Brahan (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Umm, err.. you're not Mr Hippo are you? Nothing spectacular! Bl**dy hell I wouldn't want to cycle in your neck of the woods! That is by far the worst, BY FAR the worst incident I have had in 4.5 years of daily cycle commuting.
> 
> To anyone new reading this thread, this is NOT a common incident. It is very rare, thank goodness!



It may be the worst (closest) incident that you've encountered but I bet you've saved yourself from countless potentially deadly scenarios before now - which have been caused by the idiocy of the driver...a second or two later on the brakes and who knows what could have happened in any of them. (obviously I'm not suggesting you should have braked earlier here, it's 100% driver error) 

It's your first time but I'm pretty sure this kind of incident is happening up and down the country daily and going unreported the majority of the time.

Spectacular in your case yes, but in the general scheme of things that cyclists have to endure the length and breadth of the country, you're very lucky that it wasn't a hell of a lot worse.


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> It is still there, but that is absolutely no excuse. I eyeballed him before he reached that point, and I am certain he eyeballed me. You have plenty of vision of my entrance before you reach that sign.
> 
> If the sign was restricting his vision (which it wasn't) then he should have been more cautious on his approach in the first place...although I know I am preaching to the converted!



Indeed - you do not need to convince me - but in these situations excuses abound and you need to be prepared to counter them - or better yet, when you talk to the police preemptively comment that the low sun and road sign were not factors as it shows you're not just another numpty cyclist who does not understand the HC or how to behave in traffic. It also demonstrates awareness of the surroundings/road conditions and that you are considering the incident from the HGV driver's perspective.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Indeed - you do not need to convince me - but in these situations excuses abound and you need to be prepared to counter them - or better yet, when you talk to the police preemptively comment that the low sun and road sign were not factors as it shows you're not just another numpty cyclist who does not understand the HC or how to behave in traffic. It also demonstrates awareness of the surroundings and that you are considering the incident from the HGV driver's perspective.




Aye, that's a good approach. I just have to hope that the police officer that comes to speak to me takes it all in.


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## addictfreak (1 Mar 2010)

Probably the worst video of this nature that I have ever seen!

Just sheer luck, and the fact you had your wits about you that it didnt end in tragedy.

I would have had to have gone home and change my underwear. Glad your ok and lets hope the driver gets what is coming to him. 
As a tanker driver (ADR) he should certainly have displayed a higher level of driving skill.

I had the misfortune to witness first the effects of cyclist v HGV a few years ago, the memory is still clearly etched on my mind.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (1 Mar 2010)

good luck with the police, but don't expect anything. my son and i were hit from behind by a maniac driver at 70 mph on a slip road, we were stationary in a queue last september. he had no insurance and was driving a friends car without permission. the police decided not to take any action against him.


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## BentMikey (1 Mar 2010)

'Kin hell Dave, that's a bad one. That driver is an absolute 'kin disgrace and should lose his licence over that. Have a manhug mate.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> 'Kin hell Dave, that's a bad one. That driver is an absolute 'kin disgrace and should lose his licence over that. Have a manhug mate.




Eugh! Man hugs!?! A pat on the back is as far as a Glaswegian would ever go!


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

By the way, I've just realised that I can work out what company owns the tanker. (Thanks to a youtuber for spotting the required info!) I'll be taking that to the police as well.


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## potsy (1 Mar 2010)

Wow that was terrifying Mags,glad you're OK.My heartrate went up just watching it from the safety of my armchair,gawd knows what your's was like afterwards.
My one and only real incident was similar to that-lorry shot straight across RAB in front of me,but I had a little more time to stop than you did and it shook me up for the rest of the ride.


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## addictfreak (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> By the way, I've just realised that I can work out what company owns the tanker. (Thanks to a youtuber for spotting the required info!) I'll be taking that to the police as well.



The tanker itself had no markings that I could see, so it could well be on hire.
There will be information on the Hazard information panel (UKHIS) relating to a company name and telephone number. This may or may not relate to the tankers owners, it will certainly relate to the company whos product he is carrying.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> The tanker itself had no markings that I could see, so it could well be on hire.
> There will be information on the Hazard information panel (UKHIS) relating to a company name and telephone number. This may or may not relate to the tankers owners, it will certainly relate to the company whos product he is carrying.




Aye there is a phone number on the hazard panel. I won't post the company name just now just to reduce the likelihood of the company seeing it and getting their excuses in. They might not employ the driver anyway as you point out.


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## addictfreak (1 Mar 2010)

Just as a matter of interest, if you can make out the UN Number (4 digits) you can find out what he was carrying here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_numbers


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## Origamist (1 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> Just as a matter of interest, if you can make out the UN Number (4 digits) you can find out what he was carrying here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_numbers




UN 1202 Gas oil or diesel fuel or heating oil, light


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> Just as a matter of interest, if you can make out the UN Number (4 digits) you can find out what he was carrying here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_numbers




Twas this: Gas oil, diesel oil or heating oil, light.


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## summerdays (1 Mar 2010)

Wow that looks scarey ... I'm amazed that you managed to get the number plate straight off... I guess all those other incidents were good preparation for this one. I know I would have been stuck at the side of the road in a quivering wreck.


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## beanzontoast (1 Mar 2010)

Well done for avoiding the collision, Mag. Thing that goes through your mind though is: "What if I hadn't managed to?"

If it's possible to follow this up, I think it's worth it. This was a really near miss.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

beanzontoast said:


> Well done for avoiding the collision, Mag. Thing that goes through your mind though is: "What if I hadn't managed to?"
> 
> If it's possible to follow this up, I think it's worth it. This was a really near miss.




It's funny, I'm actually thinking more along the lines of, could I have anticipated it more? He was approaching the junction a bit faster than normal, but not enough that I thought he was continuing. I was also certain he had seen me. 

Of course there is no point mulling it over too much.

Summerdays,

Despite my squeals I'm hard as nails!


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## Norm (1 Mar 2010)

Well, you are right about two things, Maggers. That was bloody close and you do squeal like a little girl. 

Nice one for avoiding it.


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Despite my squeals I'm hard as nails!


Half chewed finger nails


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Off home now and looking forward to the cycle just the same as always!


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## slowmotion (1 Mar 2010)

That clip was the stuff of nightmares. I'm glad you are OK, and have the confidence to get back in the saddle.


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## jig-sore (1 Mar 2010)

seriously bad driving.

glad your still here mags


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## classic33 (1 Mar 2010)

Brahan said:


> It may be the worst (closest) incident that you've encountered but I bet you've saved yourself from countless potentially deadly scenarios before now - which have been caused by the idiocy of the driver...a second or two later on the brakes and who knows what could have happened in any of them. (obviously I'm not suggesting you should have braked earlier here, it's 100% driver error)
> 
> It's your first time but I'm pretty sure this kind of incident is happening up and down the country daily and going unreported the majority of the time.
> 
> Spectacular in your case yes, but in the general scheme of things that cyclists have to endure the length and breadth of the country, you're very lucky that it wasn't a hell of a lot worse.




Don't know if your sticking up for the driver or whether your actually on this planet.

Iv'e had it happen. Police car behind stopped the driver.

mags, glad your ok


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## BentMikey (1 Mar 2010)

What are you smoking, Brahan? Really. *rolls eyes*.


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## Cab (1 Mar 2010)

Exceptionally bad motoring.

Do you keep clean pants at work?


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## Aperitif (1 Mar 2010)

Interesting! Nearly Magnatomato - 'passata' closeness not desired!
Good avoidance and good brake blocks - well done Mags.


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## 515mm (1 Mar 2010)

Just viewed the vid. 

My bowels are water.

Had an HGV overtake me on a miniroundabout and passed that close to me last month - his rear end forced me up onto the pavement.

Apparently, one can bunny-hop a road bike up a six inch kerb if your life depends on it. Shame I didn't get his/her reg no. though.......

Glad you're ok, best of luck with the Stasi.


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## just jim (1 Mar 2010)

That looked horrific. Only your own actions saved you from terrible injury or worse.


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## BentMikey (1 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> No you are not and it is lucky that you stayed upright because you could have been killed.
> 
> There is no excuse there at all because you are coming directly from the drivers right so there is no wing mirror/part where the windscreen and door meet blocking his/her view.
> 
> IME that tanker from the markings is a BP tanker although I may be wrong and up your neck of the words I can only presume that they run out of Grangemouth (BP have got a depot there) good luck with it and talking to the Police.



*falls over in shock*

I would have bet money on your criticising Dave!


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## summerdays (1 Mar 2010)

Is this one incident that should be reported on the CTC SMIDSY site? http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/ Given that you also have footage of an incredibly close miss by a lorry rather than just your word.


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## ComedyPilot (1 Mar 2010)

I thought I'd seen the driver before

Looks like she got a bigger set of wheels this time?

Joking aside, glad you're OK MT. Also good luck with the police.....defnite Due Care and Attention.


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## Browser (1 Mar 2010)

I'll tell you what he was thinking:
"Oh, it's only a bike, if I nip oot in front 'ee hym, he'll haftae slaw doon fer mae!"
Or words to that effect anyway.
Glad you're OK Mag, having 30-odd tonnes pass within touching distance is enough to force an underwear change at the very least.
He'll have some wonderful excuse prepared if they pollis do catch up with him


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## downfader (1 Mar 2010)

Well. I've just watched this and I feel sick. I'm so glad you're ok!


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## Crankarm (1 Mar 2010)

Shocking. He was taking the petrol .

Levity aside Mags, as everyone else has said, I am glad you survived unscathed. I hope your local plod come up trumps if not ask for detailed reasons why and be prepared to go to the top starting with Inspector.

The truck driver did seem to be travelling rather fast. Maybe there is other CCTV footage of him along his route coupled with his tacho which can definitely get him banned. The guy should be taken off the roads as he's a maniac. *IF*, as you say, he did see you, then what he did was attempted murder or more charitably dangerous driving which hopefully will definitely see him lose his license. Maybe he was even under the influence? Generally tanker drivers are very prudent (except Duel) IME.

Had you been in a car I think he would have slammed his anchors on and perhaps skidded to a halt, but as he saw you were a cyclist, I bet he thought "F*ck him he'll get out the way and they shouldn't be on the road anyway!" despite you having right of way over him already being on the roundabout.

Rest easy Maggers you are still with us, just.


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## Vincealot (1 Mar 2010)

This is why I hate going onto round abouts! Glad to see you survived unscathed Mag.


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## stowie (1 Mar 2010)

Glad you are OK from this. I am shocked by the driving, it is the worst I have seen. I was cringing watching this.

This driver really should lose their license. It looks like he entered the roundabout above any speed that could let him stop anyway, and you had taken a very prominent line - how could he not see you?

I hope the police follow this up. What a horrible experience.


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## Matty (1 Mar 2010)

Not sure if it is worth adding, don't think he is signalling either........


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Thanks for the comments guys. The police have just called to say they won't be able to make it tonight. Very busy. That's fair enough as they had the courtesy to call. I'm going to try and pop into the polie station on the way to work (need to find it!).

On a happier note I had a good commute home. In fact there was one nice moment when a car pulled up beside me with really loud music. I found myself jiging to the music. The driver saw this wound his window down and asked with a smile, 'what are you up to?', I replied, 'just enjoying the entertainment...' he laughed out loud and we both went on our ways smiling. 

It takes a lot to keep magnatom down!  (Although today was close....)


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> He should seriously thank his lucky stars. I don't think? he knows how lucky he was.




Lee, I certainly do know how lucky I was. If anything, any part of me or the bike had come into contact with a wheel, I would have been sucked underneath. As someone else said, a mile or two faster and.....

I just don't see the point in staying upset about it. It happened, it was bl**dy scary at the time, but the chances of it happening again are slim. The amount of food I eat, if I don't cycle, I am more likely to die from other causes!


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## potsy (1 Mar 2010)

Was just about to show the gf your vid,but have decided against it,she worries about things like this enough as it is


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## ianrauk (1 Mar 2010)

Definitely not going to show 'er indoors, she worries about me cycle commuting as it is.

Looking at the vid again, it really is sickening viewing.



potsy said:


> Was just about to show the gf your vid,but have decided against it,she worries about things like this enough as it is


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

I've added the incident to stop SMIDSY here.

I showed my wife it at home. She is fine about it. She has the same attitude to these things as I do. That's why I married her.....well, that's not the only reason..


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## Brahan (1 Mar 2010)

classic33 said:


> Don't know if your sticking up for the driver or whether your actually on this planet.



What?

Of course I'm not sticking up for the driver. What happened is terrible, all I'm saying that it's us cyclists, the vunerable party, who always have to take evasive action while idiots like that driver roll onward, seemingly with their eyes closed half the time. Sadly I don't think these near misses are too rare at all.

I'm on magnatom's side here


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## downfader (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've added the incident to stop SMIDSY here.
> 
> I showed my wife it at home. She is fine about it. She has the same attitude to these things as I do. That's why I married her.....well, that's not the only reason..



Only you and the StopSMIDSY team get to see the report  Just incase you didnt realise.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

downfader said:


> Only you and the StopSMIDSY team get to see the report  Just incase you didnt realise.




Ah! Haven't used the site before. Do they actually look at it?

I've just had a look for the police station in Milgavie. It was 100 meters back from where the incident took place. I didn't realise that was a police station. Shame I didn't know that this morning.....


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## downfader (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ah! Haven't used the site before. Do they actually look at it?
> 
> I've just had a look for the police station in Milgavie. It was 100 meters back from where the incident took place. I didn't realise that was a police station. Shame I didn't know that this morning.....



Depends if it is open. There are a few around here that are 9-5.. sometimes not even that. 

Yeah the CTC have been gathering evidence on several fronts through the site. Some of it is just info of occurance, other bits are the effectiveness of the Police and Court Services. It should build up a picture of how seriously the UK takes these matters, and if conversations I have had with many people are anything to go by then we're effectively the only ones (apart from our loved-ones) who do take this seriously. 

That aside, I'm with everyone here and would love to know what the Police response will be.


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## PatrickPending (1 Mar 2010)

seriously bad driving, almost unbelievable, glad you're ok


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've just had a look for the police station in Milgavie. It was 100 meters back from where the incident took place. I didn't realise that was a police station. Shame I didn't know that this morning.....


Maybe it was for the best, perhaps at the time you might not have been in a fit manor to report. You've now had time to gather your thoughts and a opportunity to present a rational statement of the situation.


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## jamesxyz (1 Mar 2010)

Jeez that gave me the eeby jeebies - glad your OK.
Defo won't show that to my wife!

Keep us posted on what the police say. HGV drivers do pull out on roundabouts all the time even if you're in a car - it's a 'I'm bigger than you' bully boy mentality.

Hope they catch Mr Magoo


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## Crankarm (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Lee, I certainly do know how lucky I was. If anything, any part of me or the bike had come into contact with a wheel, I would have been sucked underneath. As someone else said, a mile or two faster and.....
> 
> I just don't see the point in staying upset about it. It happened, it was bl**dy scary at the time, but the chances of it happening again are slim. The amount of food I eat, if I don't cycle, I am more likely to die from other causes!



Mags today you had a very close call. People joke that there's no point taking life too seriously as tomorrow one could be run over by a bus or run down by a lorry. Just in your case that day was today, almost. Take care and make sure you do everything humanly possible to nail the b4steward. How many lives does Mag have left? If you were a cat you'd have used up a fair number .

One small point. Your head cam. Is it mounted on the RHS of your helmet? Would it not be possible to mount it right on top of your helmet pointing directly in front so you get peripheral vision from both sides and also you see what is around the object you are looking at particularly on the nearside. As the current footage looks like you have it mounted on the RHS of your helmet. Don't want in any way to divert attention from the dreadful driving you experienced, just that with the camera on top it might capture more on the nearside should something similar happen again .......

Now go and clean/bin your cycling shorts .


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## StuartG (1 Mar 2010)

What really surprised me was it was a tanker driver. They are usually very prudent drivers (as you would be with a large incendiary bomb behind you). He must have seriously misjudged your speed - if you were directly in line (the approach looks quite acute and if you were drifting to the right) it could be quite hard to judge.

Well if the police don't do him I bet the fleet manager will - you really don't want a chancer out with such a load.

BTW Grangemouth is not BP any more. They sold it off to some investment outfit. Refineries generally supply a number of different brands ...


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## Theseus (1 Mar 2010)

F**K!! That was close!!

Glad you stopped in time. Let us know how the police get on.


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## Tinuts (1 Mar 2010)

Crankarm said:


> One small point. Your head cam. Is it mounted on the RHS of your helmet? Would it not be possible to mount it right on top of your helmet pointing directly in front so you get peripheral vision from both sides and also you see what is around the object you are looking at particularly on the nearside. As the current footage looks like you have it mounted on the RHS of your helmet. Don't want in any way to divert attention from the dreadful driving you experienced, just that with the camera on top it might capture more on the nearside should something similar happen again .......



Actually, such is the angle of vision of many helmet cams that switching it to the top will make little difference to the field of view.

By the way, if any argument were needed in support of helmet cams, magnatom's video certainly put's the point pretty forcefully. Let's hope the Police act on the evidence.


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## Downward (1 Mar 2010)

What bike was that on Maggers ?


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Downfader, 

I'll pop along and see. It looks like quite a big office, so hopefully it'll be open.

HLab,

Aye, your probably right, although I hope I don't have to say much. The footage speaks for itself.

With regards to the angle of the camera, I'm happy with where it is. It is the easiest most convinient place to put it, and that is important as I use it every day!

I will certainly keep you all posted with regards the police.


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## magnatom (1 Mar 2010)

Downward said:


> What bike was that on Maggers ?




That was the ribble. I might have been going faster on the Kinesis...


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## J4CKO (1 Mar 2010)

Flippin Eck, you dont need that on the way to work, glad you didnt get splattered, maimed or anything like that, terrible driving, I got the impression he didnt anticipate your speed and wanted to conserve his own momentum, forgetting the 40 foot of trailer behind him, he should go to court for that.


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## Manonabike (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I'm still a bit shaken. This morning I was entering a roundabout at about 15 mph. Nothing else was on the roundabout at the time. I am going straight on. On the next entrance to the roundabout a HGV (oil tanker) is approaching. We make eye contact and he starts slowing. The next thing I know he is entering the roundabout and he is turning right (cutting straight across me). I can't go ahead of him, I can't go behind him. I brake hard, and my back wheel looses grip (sub zero this morning). I manage to stay upright (thank God!) and stop just short of him. He continues to tun and due to his size his rear wheels get closer and closer to me. The pass less than 20cm from me and my bike. He disappears off leaving me stood in the middle of the roundabout in complete shock.
> 
> When I get to the meeting I was going to they commented that I looked white.
> 
> ...




I'm glad you are OK! Saw the video and that looked like a closed one indeed. You are in the roundabout and he has NO regard for you whatsoever.... maybe he didn't see you, whatever, he is to blame from whatever angle you look at it BUT maybe I'm not so experienced or perhaps not as brave as you are..... I never take for granted my right of way, specially with lorries, buses, taxis, vans, and old people driving any vehicle. I always tell myself these drivers will do the unexpected.... I know that sucks but you cannot be too careful with so many idiots behind the wheel.


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## bauldbairn (1 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Right. the video is online now, here. The quality will take a while to improve.
> 
> I challenge anyone to tell me I was making too much of this etc.




Glad your okay Mags, don't know how many of your nine lives you used up there? 

There was certainly no need to apologise for the swearing. Hopefully this driver will be prosecuted by the Police.


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## Plax (2 Mar 2010)

Sh*t, that could so easily have been so much worse if you had fallen. What a complete muppet.


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## mike e (2 Mar 2010)

Just watched your video, proper scary shoot that. Glad your ok and hope all goe's well in prosecuting the tosser in the truck. Great bike handling skills by the way....


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## 44 Tonne Ton (2 Mar 2010)

As a class 1 driver I have to agree it was very poor driving by the tanker driver. I can't believe he missed ye!


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## MajorMantra (2 Mar 2010)

Matthew


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## Stephenite (2 Mar 2010)

Seriously scary. Glad you're alright.


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## Rhythm Thief (2 Mar 2010)

Yikes. I'd guess that he didn't see you because you were hidden behind his mirror, which is not your fault. He should have looked around it.


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## hackbike 666 (2 Mar 2010)

Left hooked today from a car three lanes out,he even left hooked a bus involved in the equation.Stratford one way system and the turning leading into the Romford Road.Tynan probably knows it.


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## thegrumpybiker (2 Mar 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Left hooked today from a car three lanes out,he even left hooked a bus involved in the equation.Stratford one way system and the turning leading into the Romford Road.Tynan probably knows it.



I know that junction quite well, used to live near there. Sounds like he was in the right turn lane and actually wanted to turn left. Seen plenty of bell-end quality driving round that neck of the woods.


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## stowie (2 Mar 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> Left hooked today from a car three lanes out,he even left hooked a bus involved in the equation.Stratford one way system and the turning leading into the Romford Road.Tynan probably knows it.



I know the Stratford one way system. Even worse than Tottenham Hale gyratory. I have given up cycling on the Stratford one way system and tend to use the (rather pathetic) cycle paths to cross it. This particular one way system is just a free-for-all; even driving round it is tricky.

The amazing thing about these one way systems is that the road is so wide, we could easily have a superb cycle system around it. Instead there are a few half hearted pavement markings, which give up at every junction.

It does show, if your driver was prepared to / didn't see the bus he left hooked, it is very unlikely that any amount of high-viz / lights / defensive cycling is going to help.


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## Origamist (2 Mar 2010)

Rhythm Thief said:


> Yikes. I'd guess that he didn't see you because you were hidden behind his mirror, which is not your fault. He should have looked around it.



I thought Magnatom said he had eye contact with the driver on the approach?


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## Bad Company (2 Mar 2010)

> I had a moment like that on my Vespa once.



Did you have a Parka with 'Who' stickers and lots of front lights.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

Ok I popped into the police station this morning and showed them the footage. If I had had my brain in gear I would have had a take away file for them. I didn't. They want me to burn it to CD or put it on a USB stick (whole original video might to big for a CD) and hand it in tomorrow morning.

I'm not going to go into any more detail about what was said at the police station so that I don't prejudiced anything. If anyone is desperate to know and I know them well enough I'll pass on details by PM. Please don't take offence if I don't want to pass details on to you. 

RT, I could quite clearly see the driver and he could quite clearly see me on approach to the roundabout. Also when I am on the roundabout I am to his front right.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist, your PM box is full!


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

I forgot to ask, can anyone make out the registration of the red Ford that goes around me after the incident? I am wondering if they could be a witness. I can only make out part of it....


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## Origamist (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Origamist, your PM box is full!



Apologies, it's all the PMs telling me I'm a twat fantastic... Deleted some...

I see Hippo's had his two penneth:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12684189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Apologies, it's all the PMs telling me I'm a twat fantastic... Deleted some...
> 
> I see Hippo's had his two penneth:
> 
> http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12684189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20




Ha! I've obviously scared Mr Hippo off form here. 

I especially love the poster who says it probably wasn't as scary as it looks on the video. I can assure you, it was a lot worse being there. I'm just glad I am a very pragmatic person and can just get on with things.


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## Seamab (2 Mar 2010)

Just glad you are OK Magnatom. What a shocker!


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## ttcycle (2 Mar 2010)

Mags

I have just read this and seen your vid. I'm so glad you managed to stay up and that really sent a shiver down my spine. Just watching you set off again - can tell you're really shaken. Hope the police take it seriously as that was a very bad example of dangerous driving. Keep at them! Though got to ask- where's the vid of you doing your little jig??


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Mags
> 
> I have just read this and seen your vid. I'm so glad you managed to stay up and that really sent a shiver down my spine. Just watching you set off again - can tell you're really shaken. Hope the police take it seriously as that was a very bad example of dangerous driving. Keep at them! Though got to ask- where's the vid of you doing your little jig??





Unfortunately you would just see the camera jolt around a bit. What you would need is a remote camera to capture my dancing prowess!


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## ttcycle (2 Mar 2010)

no excuses Mag, we also want 'proof' of the conversation with the motorist..otherwise it's just hearsay!


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

ttcycle said:


> no excuses Mag, we also want 'proof' of the conversation with the motorist..otherwise it's just hearsay!




I've got it, I'll just have to try and find some time to edit it. I have work to do today!!


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## hackbike 666 (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Ha! I've obviously scared Mr Hippo off form here.
> 
> I especially love the poster who says it probably wasn't as scary as it looks on the video. I can assure you, it was a lot worse being there. I'm just glad I am a very pragmatic person and can just get on with things.



Yeah after what happened to me today I can appreciate how it was for you mags.


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## Bollo (2 Mar 2010)

Glad to hear that the police are taking it seriously mags.


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## JiMBR (2 Mar 2010)

Glad to hear that you're OK m8....a very scary one indeed!


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## jeltz (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I'm not going to go into any more detail about what was said at the police station so that I don't prejudiced anything.



I respect that, but hope you'll be able to update this thread when matters are "concluded" 

I've shown that clip to several colleagues and family members. They are all totally gobsmacked at the ineptitude of the driver! 

I do wonder if he actually ever realised how close that incident was.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

jeltz said:


> I respect that, but hope you'll be able to update this thread when matters are "concluded"
> 
> I've shown that clip to several colleagues and family members. They are all totally gobsmacked at the ineptitude of the driver!
> 
> I do wonder if he actually ever realised how close that incident was.




Of course I'll keep you all informed. I have a bad feeling that these things move slowly though...


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## Rhythm Thief (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> I thought Magnatom said he had eye contact with the driver on the approach?



You're right, he did say that. In that case, I have no idea what the driver was doing.


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## ufkacbln (2 Mar 2010)

Doesn't surprise me..


This is the driving standard of our local HGV Centre


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> Doesn't surprise me..
> 
> 
> This is the driving standard of our local HGV Centre




That is a very poor overtake. They declined to comment!?


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## thegrumpybiker (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> I see Hippo's had his two penneth:
> 
> http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12684189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20



He certainly has outdone himself this time.


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## Origamist (2 Mar 2010)

thegrumpybiker said:


> He certainly has outdone himself this time.



It's not often that a CycleChat commuting thread is less reactionary and judgmental in tone than a similarly themed bikeradar thread. What's wrong with CC these days...


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## Landslide (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> It's not often that a CycleChat commuting thread is less reactionary and judgmental in tone than a similarly themed bikeradar thread. What's wrong with CC these days...


Maggers always said he'd take on board helpful criticism of his riding, of which there was some (and some unhelpful) in earlier threads.
In this instance, everyone seems to be in agreement that there was nothing else he could have done to avoid the idiot in the tanker. Maybe being reactionary and judgmental was a factor in this. Cruel to be kind? [/slightly tongue in cheek]

Glad you're still here Mags, and I'll be interested to hear the outcome of your dealings with the police in this matter.


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## Bollo (2 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> It's not often that a CycleChat commuting thread is less reactionary and judgmental in tone than a similarly themed bikeradar thread. What's wrong with CC these days...



Maggers is a very controversial figure, the Michael Moore of cycling if you will. Which I guess makes Mr Hippo Charlton Heston. Not the macho Moses version, but the gun-waving crazy man.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

It's the tuck drivers thread that I am finding interesting, especially as our old friend Joe24 is there spouting a load of cr@p about me.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

(P.S. if you go to the CTC thread you'll find a link to the truck drivers in there. I don't want to post it here)


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> Maggers is a very controversial figure, the Michael Moore of cycling if you will. Which I guess makes Mr Hippo Charlton Heston. Not the macho Moses version, but the gun-waving crazy man.





I honestly think I am controversial because people can't actually be bothered to actually read what I have actually written....actually. I have a good idea how famous folk feel when they see their name in gossip mags. The amount of idle gossip that seems to develop into supposed realisms is quite an eye opener. 
Hey ho, it'll all die down soon enough...


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> CTC thread?




The easiest way to find the various threads is to put the youtube video url into google.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Oh yeah (off to peruse what people are saying)




Enjoy!


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## longers (2 Mar 2010)

Good riding to stop when you did Mags.

Don't show Mrs Magnatom but save it to show the kids when they grow up and think you're old and boring. With a soundtrack maybe, or on mute.


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## thegrumpybiker (2 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> _Looks to me like the tanker driver just didn't see the Lycra clad mushroom headed moron on the childs toy. I doubt very much that there was any malice involved, but the guy was very lucky not to get hurt._
> _So, lessons to be learned.....................instead of spending your money on fancy head cams and skin tight clothes best left in the S&M department, save it up and buy a car._
> 
> _Oh, and while we're on the subject...................as this country is in the finacial toilet at present, isn't it about time that these two wheeled freeloaders were Taxed and Insured, it's a rich revenue stream which has as yet been untapped._
> ...



A truly sobering thought that such knuckle dragging specimens are allowed the keys to a 60mph capable multi-tonne of metal.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

longers said:


> Good riding to stop when you did Mags.
> 
> Don't show Mrs Magnatom but save it to show the kids when they grow up and think you're old and boring. With a soundtrack maybe, or on mute.



She's already seen it. I'm lucky in that she is as pragmatic as I am, and she shrugged it off. Not in a that was nothing sort of way, but in a, it happens you avoided it move on, sort of way. What a gal!


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## longers (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> What a gal!



Indeed!


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## potsy (2 Mar 2010)

I think mags should be known from this day forward as -The Mushroom Headed Moron.
Sorry pal but that made me chuckle


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

potsy said:


> I think mags should be known from this day forward as -The Mushroom Headed Moron.
> Sorry pal but that made me chuckle





Maybe I'm a magic mushroom headed moron, and I can make everyone around me feel groooovy!


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

> Our Joe is on the trucker forum!!!!!! (as JoeG)
> 
> http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56091



Aye I spotted that. He is trying his best to defend cyclists whilst at the same time insult me as much as possible. Strange lad.


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## jann71 (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I forgot to ask, can anyone make out the registration of the red Ford that goes around me after the incident? I am wondering if they could be a witness. I can only make out part of it....



EEEEEEEKK! Glad you're still in one piece. 

Last letter on the plate may be an X or an A but its probably clearer on your original video before uploading. 
You can see your reflection / glowing yellow top in its rear passenger window.


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## classic33 (2 Mar 2010)

Driver 67%
Cyclist 10%
Both 24%

Sofar the majority is on the cyclists side.

Point to ponder.
Would it be possible to work this in anywhere on "Time for Action"


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## Tynan (2 Mar 2010)

how are cyclists a revenue steram?


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## 661-Pete (2 Mar 2010)

That has got to be the worst video you've ever posted, Mag! And I've watched a lot of 'em! I hope you understand exactly what I mean by the word "worst" here, it's a sort of compliment really - on your capturing exactly the amount of nastiness and scariness that it entails. In fact the only sort of 'compliment' you really need at the moment, is that for still being on the _outside_ of a wooden box not the inside...

Brahan: I live in West Sussex as you do - seemingly. And I've been cycling here for 30 years plus. I've _never_ had anything remotely close to this happen to me. OK I did once have a car hit me on a RAB. But it was a glancing blow from behind, just took my rear wheel. I had already passed the driver's lane, he just shot out too fast. Nothing remotely like this! And I've cycled plenty on pretty 'hairy' West Sussex roads: A23, A24, A272, A264 etc. etc. No: this is the exception to cap all exceptions.

Perhaps a bit of more analytical comment is misplaced here, especially since (hopefully) the police have this well in hand, but I was wondering. Is this perhaps the sort of error (yes I know the word "error" is an understatement) committed by a driver who's more used to *driving on the right*? Thereby, more used to negotiating a roundabout anticlockwise? It may well be, if this driver is run to earth, that their nationality may have a bearing here. Not wishing to be xenophobic of course, but wishing to protect people's lives from these death-merchants...

Do your best to get that witness, M. May mean the difference between Driving Without Due Care and Dangerous Driving.


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## bauldbairn (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Not in a that was nothing sort of way, but in a, it happens you avoided it move on, sort of way. What a gal!



+1, well done Mrs Mags. 

I've had a look at the trucknetuk comments - there are maybe some knuckle draggers on the site(have to watch what I say some of my friends/relatives are truckers) but you were 5 to 1 up on the poll they were running. Many agreed - the driver should be procecuted/banned. 
I couldn't understand the critisism of your speed/positioning on the road, nor the mushroom head/lycra jibes, nor JoeG's problem, nor the road tax/fuel tax/insurance rants - all seemed a tad juvenile to be honest. All rather embarassing for a professional drivers website I'd have thought?


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## 661-Pete (2 Mar 2010)

bauldbairn said:


> +1, well done Mrs Mags.
> 
> I've had a look at the trucknetuk comments - there are maybe some knuckle draggers on the site(have to watch what I say some of my friends/relatives are truckers) but you were 5 to 1 up on the poll they were running. Many agreed - the driver should be procecuted/banned.
> I couldn't understand the critisism of your speed/positioning on the road, nor the mushroom head/lycra jibes, nor JoeG's problem, nor the road tax/fuel tax/insurance rants - all seemed a tad juvenile to be honest. All rather embarassing for a professional drivers website I'd have thought?


I've not looked at the forum mentioned, not yet, but I can guess.

It's an anonymity thing, isn't it. Like this forum, I suppose, on some threads, though thankfully not on this one. People assume there'll be no comeback, no way of tracking them down, so they flap their mouth any old how. Same as goes on on the DM 'comments' pages. Insist on posting names and addresses - and employers - and it'd soon be a different tune!

Happily there are a lot of folks around above this sort of thing.


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## BentMikey (2 Mar 2010)

I do think a few of those truck driver.net comments were fairly ignorant, but most were good. I suspect they don't understand why cyclists need to take the lane and often shouldn't be riding in the gutter.


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## gaz (2 Mar 2010)

Anyone who questions magnatom's cycling needs to read the highway code..

Rule 185 of the highway code:


> When reaching the roundabout you should
> give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
> check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
> watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
> look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off


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## BentMikey (2 Mar 2010)

Plus comments on him not looking to his nearside - quite obviously he does given the camera movements. Plus some don't realise that your eyes move much more than the camera does.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

You know, one day I think I'll write a book about all of this. I've certainly got plenty of material! I'm stuck for a title though....I'll open it to the floor!


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## steve52 (2 Mar 2010)

*tax issues*

why do so many erm, knuckle headed morons sums them up best, use the charge them (cyclist) road tax argument? Hey morons i pay tax for a car that i have to use sometimes, as i suspect a lot of other cyclist do! grr grr and double grr.


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## magnatom (2 Mar 2010)

steve52 said:


> grr grr and double grr.



Sounds like your car needs a service! 

(I'm just finishing off a Chardonnay!)


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## Norm (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> You know, one day I think I'll write a book about all of this. I've certainly got plenty of material! I'm stuck for a title though....I'll open it to the floor!


Your life in their hands?

Life without Road Tax

Actually, I do have insurance

Dealing with f**kwits (this might need a bit of work before WH Smiths stock it)


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## Bollo (2 Mar 2010)

It's always going to get a little sectarian when cycling and truck forums cross, but on the whole most people are reasonable enough to realise that this was not a clever piece of driving.

Without putting words into magger's mouth (my voice isn't high enough and I don't know enough swear words) I'm sure that he'll get no pleasure from the fallout from this incident. Even if the police do nothing, there's a reasonable chance that this guy might lose his job. It may be deserved, but its not funny. In the same way, I doubt that most of the gentlemen (and ladies?) of trucknet would sleep well if they killed a cyclist, no matter what the circumstances and balance of blame.


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## gouldina (2 Mar 2010)

661-Pete said:


> I've not looked at the forum mentioned, not yet, but I can guess.
> 
> It's an anonymity thing, isn't it. Like this forum, I suppose, on some threads, though thankfully not on this one. People assume there'll be no comeback, no way of tracking them down, so they flap their mouth any old how. Same as goes on on the DM 'comments' pages. Insist on posting names and addresses - and employers - and it'd soon be a different tune!
> 
> Happily there are a lot of folks around above this sort of thing.



Hilariously, there's a comment on there by a trucker saying "he should cycle on the pavement like I do".
Right, I bet if we all cycled on the pavement, everyone would be happy.


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## mr_cellophane (2 Mar 2010)

I don't understand their comments about your position on the roundabout. It would have been the same result if you had in what they consider the correct lane for turning right.


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## longers (2 Mar 2010)

That was very well put Bollo.


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## stevo (2 Mar 2010)

glad you OK mate.
hes supposed to be a professional driver,he should loose his license for that.
that was defo dangerous driving.
he should not be driving anything.


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## BentMikey (2 Mar 2010)

And for the trucknet users reading here, I hope you'll see some balance from us cyclists, for example:

Richard Burbidge excellent driving - I wrote to the company.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwhOTK5AHA


Also Sainsburys, though no video. And Westway Coaches.

And Thomas's recent topic:
https://www.cyclechat.net/

The carrot is much more effective than the stick, and I and a lot of the cyclists on here are reasonably quick to email a company and thank them for some good driving.

OTOH I have no problem at all with reporting bad driving - better report it and change that driver's attitude, or at least bring consequences to him/her before they kill/injure another road user.


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## Bollo (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> You know, one day I think I'll write a book about all of this. I've certainly got plenty of material! I'm stuck for a title though....I'll open it to the floor!



"Jocks, Lies and Videotape"

Oh my god, I've gone all racist!


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## Sheffield_Tiger (2 Mar 2010)

Unfortunately a lot of drivers just DON'T look properly when entering a roundabout.

Here's the side of my car after an incident involving a cyclist's (helmet-protected) head going straight into my back wing (despite what it looks like, it wasn't me pulling out!)







I was waiting at a roundabout. I SHOULD have gone as the car to my right SHOULD have waited, as opposite me a cyclist was coming onto the roundabout, at a speed where clearly he was not going to turn right, but go straight ahead, the car to my right SHOULD wait, making it clear for me to proceed also.

Those alarm bells where something just isn't right were sounding in my head and I hung back...good job I did. Car pulls straight out, bike just manages to avoid going over the bonnet, instead strikes the front bumper which sends him careering over to my side of the road and into my back wing. If I'd gone, I reckon cyclist would have been the filling in a sandwich.

The angle pretty much deflected a lot of the impact, cyclist and bike were fine bar a few scrapes.

The REALLY annoying thing is that bike had some scratches and neede new bar tape etc. My car got a dent that pulled out but was always creased on the line above the stripe. Mr Magoo's car that caused the whole thing however, had nothing bar perhaps a tiny scratch on the corner of the bumper.


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## 661-Pete (2 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I forgot to ask, can anyone make out the registration of the red Ford that goes around me after the incident? I am wondering if they could be a witness. I can only make out part of it....


Just noticed this post. Magnatom, if you're still interested in getting the plate on the Ford, it might just about be do-able. I'm sure there's ANPR software around that could do the job, by 'stacking' information from the frames of the car which you've captured, but I don't have that sort of software nor the skill to use it, I'm afraid. Maybe someone has.


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## Archie (2 Mar 2010)

I'm not going to ask what the Polis said, but something in the truckers forum tipped off another "line of enquiry". Note the time of the incident and ask them to check the drivers mobile call history. 

Huge sympathy, nothing like that has ever happened to me.


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## bauldbairn (3 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> You know, one day I think I'll write a book about all of this. I've certainly got plenty of material! I'm stuck for a title though....I'll open it to the floor!



"The Mushroom Headed Moron's Memoirs" 

or

"The Memoirs of a Mushroom Headed Moron"  -


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## wafflycat (3 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> And for the trucknet users reading here, I hope you'll see some balance from us cyclists, for example:
> 
> Richard Burbidge excellent driving - I wrote to the company.
> 
> ...




Indeed. Where I cycle there's loads of HGVs on the roads due to the abundance of farms, industrial estates and a gert big quarry just up the road. Almost without fail the HGV drivers are very courteous drivers and drive well. So much so, I've written to the companies I've identified from the HGVs to say a thank you for courteous driving - using the carrot rather than the stick approach, as it is genuinely appreciated when someone in charge of many tonnes moving at speed is aware of me on my bike and gives me time & space. And as my cycling experience of HGV drivers is this, it's what makes Mag's experience all the more shocking. Sort of WVM in an HGV: a lethal combination.


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## ufkacbln (3 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> It's always going to get a little sectarian when cycling and truck forums cross, but on the whole most people are reasonable enough to realise that this was not a clever piece of driving.
> 
> Without putting words into magger's mouth (my voice isn't high enough and I don't know enough swear words) I'm sure that he'll get no pleasure from the fallout from this incident. Even if the police do nothing, there's a reasonable chance that this guy might lose his job. It may be deserved, but its not funny. In the same way, I doubt that most of the gentlemen (and ladies?) of trucknet would sleep well if they killed a cyclist, no matter what the circumstances and balance of blame.




My feelings on the job front are simple....

If a driver drives sufficiently badly that their employer sacks them then it is a decision on the evidence, and not my "fault"

What is more important is that next time (and there will be one) the person involved may nt be as lucky.

No-one has forced a driver to drive like a nutter and the "fault" lies on the individual's choice to do so!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (3 Mar 2010)

the comments on trucknet are quite shocking. i hope it is just bravado behind the keyboard type of thing. joeg obviously doesn't like the op but at least he his on the cyclists side of things(ish). it is shocking that other humans (motons) are willing to wish harm upon others (us) just because the wheels and power units are different.


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## ComedyPilot (3 Mar 2010)

> *Our Joe is on the trucker forum*!!!!!! (as JoeG)
> 
> http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56091



Check out his spelling and grammar....?


Has he been to finishing school?


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## Dayvo (3 Mar 2010)

ComedyPilot said:


> Check out his spelling and grammar....?
> 
> 
> Has he been to finishing school?



I say, I do believe you are right!  

Jane Smart'll know if JoeG is Joe24!


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## Coco (3 Mar 2010)

Just noticed this one. Close shave Magnatom and well handled. I'm not sure I'd have managed to stay upright or so calm 

With respect to the book title, I'm sure Mark Beaumont won't mind if you call it "Magnatom: The Man Who Cycled to Work"


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## gouldina (3 Mar 2010)

bromptonfb said:


> the comments on trucknet are quite shocking. i hope it is just bravado behind the keyboard type of thing. joeg obviously doesn't like the op but at least he his on the cyclists side of things(ish). it is shocking that other humans (motons) are willing to wish harm upon others (us) just because the wheels and power units are different.



Indeed. Some of them are giving him grief because he was in the right lane and going straight across the roundabout rather than the left. If you ask me, it wouldn't matter which lane he was in given that the lorry took up virtually the whole roundabout when it careered onto it.

Also, he should cross the roundabout on foot 

Also he should be cycling on the pavement 

Anyways, we don't pay road tax so we're all pretty much asking for it. 

They're not all idiots to be fair but Jeeeeeezus some of them...


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## Theseus (3 Mar 2010)

It looks as though Rosscott has seen the video.


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## ufkacbln (3 Mar 2010)

ComedyPilot said:


> Check out his spelling and grammar....?
> 
> 
> Has he been to finishing school?



Actcherly if u look u wil fined that the SILLY COMMents tend to be the ones wiv pur speling and Gramer?

Which says it all..... 

Those who have a logical point or are constructive tend to appear more literate.


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## Jezston (3 Mar 2010)

Pretty sad the attitude there - even those saying the driver was in the wrong STILL have to make some kind of comment slagging off cyclists completely irrelevant to the issue.

One guy starts a post saying the driver was wrong with "not that I'm defending cyclists but ..."

WTF?


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## Browser (3 Mar 2010)

One of the Trucknet posters seems hung up on the 'bikes don't pay road tax and insurance' theme. If he's reading this thread, can I point out the following:

V.E.D. and insurance don't in any way prevent, help to prevent or mitigate the immediate effects of RTAs.
He talks about cyclists slaiming that they do no damage to roads and dismisses this as an irrelevance as 'car tax isn't exclusively ring-fenced for spending on roads'. It's not relevant to Mags' post but cars _do_ damage roads due to weight/speed etc whereas a *LOT* of bikes would have to transit the same stretch of tarmac to cause the same wear.
As has been discussed here ad-nauseam, bicycles _are_ liable for V.E.D. but don't pay as they are zero emitters.
Try riding a bicycle on a normal road in a cycle lane and see if your view of cyclists not using them changes at all.
If Mags had been on a motorcycle, would he have attracted half of the 'he was going too fast' comments?
I don't agree with every post Mags puts up, but I do believe he was justifiably angry in this case.
If the tankers driver's view was obscured *then he should have slowed further or stopped until he could see!!*
As for the comments from others on there about Mags' road positioning and his 'love' for the book Cyclecraft, I can't see what the fuss is about. Please bear in mind this was a single-perspective video clip from a helmet cam, not a multi-camera edited together clip which probably would have show more clearly where the tanker/cyclist were.
If nothing else, the debate on Trucknet shows opinion of cyclists amongst truck drivers is quite mixed and not all bad (thakfully!).


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## BentMikey (3 Mar 2010)

A very good post, with the exception that bikes are not liable for VED, and despite some myths, are not Band A vehicles. You might like to replace 3 with the point that cyclists are over-represented by high-earners, so cyclists tend to pay more tax than the average, and thus help to subsidise motorists.


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> It's always going to get a little sectarian when cycling and truck forums cross, but on the whole most people are reasonable enough to realise that this was not a clever piece of driving.
> 
> Without putting words into magger's mouth (my voice isn't high enough and I don't know enough swear words) I'm sure that he'll get no pleasure from the fallout from this incident. Even if the police do nothing, there's a reasonable chance that this guy might lose his job. It may be deserved, but its not funny. In the same way, I doubt that most of the gentlemen (and ladies?) of trucknet would sleep well if they killed a cyclist, no matter what the circumstances and balance of blame.




Absolutely Bollo.

My stress levels are definitely raised at the moment and the whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't want anyone to loose their job. For all I know this bloke might be the nicest bloke on the planet with 6 kids to feed. However, the driving in that clip was so poor, that I wouldn't want to think that he would ever do that again. If he didn't see me (which I can't beleive) it is entirely possible that he wouldn't have even known an incident had occurred. When in charge of such a tanker you need to be aware of everything around you, especially in your intended path!! He wasn't and that suggests that maybe, a change of career would be good for him and everyone else. It's not nice, but I have to follow it through. 

Actually I am not too concerned about the chat on trucknet. There are a lot of reasonable posters which for the internet in general is pretty good. 

If there are any people from trucknet on here, another place to have a look is here and if you have time the 'Time for Action' thread.

As cyclists we we (certainly most on here) are acutely aware of the dangers of cyclist HGV interaction. HGV drivers have a duty of care, but cyclists do also. If my incident in some way helped drive the campaign for safer HGV/cyclist interactions and less deaths then it will have served a purpose.


With regards to the police, I have handed my video in today. we'll see what happens....


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## ComedyPilot (3 Mar 2010)

Been reading some of the garbage on that site, and a few posters make statements about you not looking Mags. Of course, you are a robot that can only look at something by turning your head in that direction.

It scares me a little that people who drive TONS of HGV through our towns villages and cities don't know the physical concept of eyeball movement being independent to head movement?

'The camera didn't move, so he (Mags) can't have looked'

Sigh.........


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## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> As cyclists we we (certainly most on here) are acutely aware of the dangers of cyclist HGV interaction. HGV drivers have a duty of care, but cyclists do also. If my incident in some way helped drive the campaign for safer HGV/cyclist interactions and less deaths then it will have served a purpose.



Mags, what, if anything, do you think you have learnt from this incident?


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Mags, what, if anything, do you think you have learnt from this incident?




You like these sorts of questions, don't you Origamist! 

With respect to the way I cycle, there is always room for improvement. With hindsight maybe I could have been traveling slower...maybe. However, if I ask myself would I take the junction at the same speed again in the same circumstances, I'd have to be honest and say I would. 99.99999% of the time the HGV would stop and no incident would occur. On this occasion I can't see anything that I did wrong, apart from misinterpreting what the HGV was about to do, i.e. my spidey sense got it wrong.

I suppose my threshold for caution will be lowered slightly, but not by a huge amount. I'll certainly be a little less likely to assume because someone appears to be slowing and that they appear to have seen me, that they will actually stop. I don't think I ever fully assume that anyway, I kept a close eye on him all the way through, but again the threshold will be a bit lower. 

At the end of the day I did manage to stop, despite some horrific driving. From that I've learned that I'm actually not too bad at stopping in an emergency.  However, there is no place for complacency and i should continue to do everything I can to avoid ever being in that position again.


Cycling in this morning taking my prefered quiet back road route (which takes me to that roundabout) I suddenly realised that I have a good argument against those that suggest I go looking for trouble. If I wanted trouble, I wouldn't take the quiet back roads. They take longer , have zillions of potholes and have more hills. However, they avoid a very busy A road where poor overtaking is a regular occurrence. Given the choice, and weather that is not too icy, I will choose the back roads every time. Why? because I love the peace and quiet and the lack of conflict. I do not seek trouble, I do my best to avoid it.


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## BentMikey (3 Mar 2010)

You liar! Everyone knoes that helmet camera cyclists go out looking for trouble, and making it whereever possible.

More seriously, you're totally right. Conflicts are horrible, but then when they do happen a camera is an invaluable tool in stopping a traffic bully.


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

If you want a laugh have a read of this forum. IMy video shows that they are linking to it. It's seems to be a bunch of mainly US flight sim enthusiasts who don't actually understand how roundabouts work, discussing the rights and wrongs of my cycling.  I haven't read it all but what I have is quite amusing!


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## Norm (3 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> If you want a laugh have a read of this forum.


That's brilliant! Most of that stuff you couldn't make up!



> To be honest i don't blame the trucker for not stopping, he has a heavy load there if he braked he may of lost control and the concequences could of been alot worse.


Yeah, of course the fuc... sorry, trucker should drive over the cyclist, he was going too fast to have stopped at the give way lines.



> Its not like the cyclist gave any indication he was entering the round about either


Golly gee... now we have to indicate to *enter* a roundabout? Anyone know what indication we should be using to enter a roundabout, as the trucker could also do with learning it.



> *What was the trucker meant to do?* By the time he'd have noticed the cyclist, slamming on and/or would have been the wrong thing to do,


How about slowing down before he got to the give way lines, so that he could, you know, give way to anything that had priority? Just an idea.



> What the guy on the bike was doing at the centre of the roundabout i have no idea


Yeah, fancy using the correct lane on a roundabout, no wonder the guy tried to kill you.

I know I shouldn't do that, as they have no form of redress on here, but from those comments alone, I wonder what sort of person inhabits a forum for flight sims.


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

Norm said:


> Golly gee... now we have to indicate to *enter* a roundabout? Anyone know what indication we should be using to enter a roundabout, as the trucker could also do with learning it.



Aye this ones a classic. The only 'appropriate' signal I can imagine would be to signal left onto the roundabout. How many vehicles would pull out on you if you did that!


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## Landslide (3 Mar 2010)

I did see a cyclist give a "straight on" hand signal once. Looked pretty much like a "Heil Hitler!".


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## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> You like these sorts of questions, don't you Origamist!
> 
> With respect to the way I cycle, there is always room for improvement. With hindsight maybe I could have been traveling slower...maybe. However, if I ask myself would I take the junction at the same speed again in the same circumstances, I'd have to be honest and say I would. 99.99999% of the time the HGV would stop and no incident would occur. On this occasion I can't see anything that I did wrong, apart from misinterpreting what the HGV was about to do, i.e. my spidey sense got it wrong.
> 
> I suppose my threshold for caution will be lowered slightly, but not by a huge amount. I'll certainly be a little less likely to assume because someone appears to be slowing and that they appear to have seen me, that they will actually stop. I don't think I ever fully assume that anyway, I kept a close eye on him all the way through, but again the threshold will be a bit lower.



You were in an invidious position. It's easy for wise owls to hoot about slowing more or stopping at the RaB (giving way to the left in order to avoid a potential collision) when a possible consequence of such behaviour might be another potential collision - the hit from behind (a tailing vehicle will not expect you to defer to the left, when it is clear on the right - hence the high number of shunts at RaBs). You can imagine in this scenario many people would criticise you for not following the HC and "causing" a collision (even though the driver who hit you from behind would be culpable).

After this incident, my take on HGVs changed: 

http://www.cyclechat.net/forums/showpost.php?p=421762&postcount=144

I realised there was not a lot, if anything, I could have done differently if a HGV driver wants to recklessly endanger me. Before the near miss, I was careful and cautious around large vehicles: I respected them - afterwards I feared them (immediately afterwards, I was panicky when I came into contact with them) - and considered every HGV a massive threat, no matter how benign the driving.


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## HaloJ (3 Mar 2010)

Slightly late to this thread and have only read the first three pages to the video and frankly I'm shaken. Totally and utterly aghast at how poor that driving was. I'm in my 6th month of commuting now and have only had to take drastic action once and I cripes I'm lost for words. Glad that you're ok. I'll read the rest of the thread later.

All the best,

Abs


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> You were in an invidious position. It's easy for wise owls to hoot about slowing more or stopping at the RaB (giving way to the left in order to avoid a potential collision) when a possible consequence of such behaviour might be another potential collision - the hit from behind (a tailing vehicle will not expect you to defer to the left, when it is clear on the right - hence the high number of shunts at RaBs). You can imagine in this scenario many people would criticise you for not following the HC and contributing to a collision (even though the driver who hit you from behind would be culpable).
> 
> After this incident, my take on HGVs changed:
> 
> ...



I see your incident was with a tipper truck. I don't like generalisations, however, if one group of HGV dirvers cause more problems it's the tipper or skip drivers. 

Yes, as I said, if I was to take the roundabout again, I am pretty sure I would take it the same. This morning the roundabout was busier, but I probably approached with the same speed and slotted on quite nicely as happens 99.99999% of the time. 

I think our cycling is always shaped by our experience and this certainly was an experience! Will it put me off, no way! Will I be a little more wary of HGVs, maybe. Will I enjoy my commute, you betcha! This morning was a beautiful morning, and apart from one horn pusher wanting me to be in the cycle lane (I gave them a wave and a smile) it was great fun.


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## StuartG (3 Mar 2010)

I think Mags may be wrong on one fact "they made eye contact". I don't doubt Mags thought that and it may have influenced his approach - but people can glaze over and not be registering what their eyes are seeing. My wife assures me I'm a master of this!

No sane HGV tanker driver is going to race you into a roundabout. The downsides to the driver are plainly not worth the risk. His career, liberty even life (if there was a spillage) are on the line here. So, assuming there is no insanity, it is down to Mags not being seen. Whether the road sign contributed or something else was distracting the driver only he will know. It maybe one of those 'blips' we all have. 99% of the time they do not matter but being behind a wheel or on a cycle and at the wrong time and $%^&

While the driver IMHO has sole responsibility for the near miss, all have responsibility for anticipating impending disaster and taking avoiding action. I wasn't there so I don't know what my judgement would be combining his eye contact with his lack of driver reaction. Would it have been earlier (no story) or later (obituary). But Mags, that's the place to carefully look to see if you can do better. Not a criticism since its near misses get you thinking more deeply about it. However, never ever use the excuse that he was completely in the wrong to not admit that one's own judgement failed. It did.

That is nothing to be ashamed of - unless you ignore it.


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## magnatom (3 Mar 2010)

StuartG said:


> I think Mags may be wrong on one fact "they made eye contact". I don't doubt Mags thought that and it may have influenced his approach - but people can glaze over and not be registering what their eyes are seeing. My wife assures me I'm a master of this!
> 
> No sane HGV tanker driver is going to race you into a roundabout. The downsides to the driver are plainly not worth the risk. His career, liberty even life (if there was a spillage) are on the line here. So, assuming there is no insanity, it is down to Mags not being seen. Whether the road sign contributed or something else was distracting the driver only he will know. It maybe one of those 'blips' we all have. 99% of the time they do not matter but being behind a wheel or on a cycle and at the wrong time and $%^&
> 
> ...



Stuart, without doubt my judgment failed. I wrongly anticipated his actions. However, that is the crux of the issue, it is anticipation. No matter how good we are at anticipating things, sometimes we can get it wrong. Obviously I did here. 

What the video doesn't show is the length of time I eyeballed the HGV on approach to the roundabout. There is a reasonable section on approach where we could clearly see each other. That is where I 'thought' he clocked me and I clocked him. I still think he saw me. I think this, as I am sure that he did start slowing at that point. That and the 'eyeball' made me confident enough to proceed. It turned out that any slowing was temporary and the rest is obvious from the video.


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## 661-Pete (3 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I see your incident was with a tipper truck. I don't like generalisations, however, if one group of HGV dirvers cause more problems it's the tipper or skip drivers.


If we're generalizing: then may I suggest: *ready-mixed cement trucks* can be a real nightmare. Trouble is, they're driving to a tight schedule: they've got to reach their destination before the cement solidifies in the truck. And haven't there been a number of fatal left-hooks involving just this type of lorry?


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## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

StuartG said:


> I think Mags may be wrong on one fact "they made eye contact". I don't doubt Mags thought that and it may have influenced his approach - but people can glaze over and not be registering what their eyes are seeing. My wife assures me I'm a master of this!.



You're isolating a single factor when you need to consider all of the circumstances that led Mags to ride in the way he did - such as the HGV apparently slowing on the approach, the fact that it was clear to the cyclist's right, Magnatom reached the RaB first and expected the HGV to give way to the right / circulating vehicles as it should have done - the issue of eye contact was just another indicator that would have led Magnatom to believe the vehicle would have given way. When combined, it is very easy to see why Magnatom rode in the manner he did - it was just that the clues and cues were misleading (or better, open to misinterpretation). The crux of the matter is that HGV did not follow the rules of the road.

Generally though, I agree with you about eye contact - it cannot be relied upon. That said, I always prefer to engage with a driver in this manner, if at all possible (assuming they're looking, not obscured by heavily tinted windows, etc) as it is a pretty good indicator of intent, but certainly not a foolproof one.


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## Theseus (3 Mar 2010)

Most cement trucks I have seen have a sign on the back warning cyclists not to filter up the left. I have always heeded this sensible advice.


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## 661-Pete (3 Mar 2010)

Touche said:


> Most cement trucks I have seen have a sign on the back warning cyclists not to filter up the left. I have always heeded this sensible advice.


Of course. But this does nothing about the trucker who overtakes you and then left-hooks you. Or does what Magnatom's tanker driver did. 

As it happens I was close to being left-hooked by a lorry the other day. Not a tanker or cement truck, but one of the less-common wagon-and-drag type: a rigid lorry pulling an equal-sized trailer. I was not filtering past him: he was overtaking me and then about to turn left. Scary, but I got suspicious of the driver's intentions even as he started to overtake me, so I was on my brakes as soon as he indicated left and before he cut across my path. Beyond a bit of tut-tutting and shaking my head, I thought no more of it. A very mild incident compared to this thread.


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## 661-Pete (3 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Sorry but the above is rubbish (I'll refrain from saying bollox as I am trying to change my posting style)
> 
> It would take an age for the cement to go off in the back of a cement mix truck.


So: how long then? I'm sure it has happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_mixer


> Concrete mixers generally do not travel far from their plant, as many contractors require that the concrete be in place within 90 minutes after loading. If the truck breaks down or for some other reason the concrete hardens in the truck, workers need to enter the barrel with jackhammers; dynamite is still occasionally used to break up hardened concrete in the barrel under certain circumstances.


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## Brahan (3 Mar 2010)

661-Pete said:


> Brahan: I live in West Sussex as you do - seemingly. And I've been cycling here for 30 years plus. I've _never_ had anything remotely close to this happen to me. OK I did once have a car hit me on a RAB. But it was a glancing blow from behind, just took my rear wheel. I had already passed the driver's lane, he just shot out too fast. Nothing remotely like this! And I've cycled plenty on pretty 'hairy' West Sussex roads: A23, A24, A272, A264 etc. etc. No: this is the exception to cap all exceptions.



Yes the A264 is a horrible road, particularly at the moment with all the potholes. On that subject - How come motorists can detect a pothole from a mile off (and take evasive action) but seemingly not see a cyclist?

Maybe I haven't explained what I meant clearly enough.  

My point is that we cyclists have to deal with this level of stupidity and incompetence far too often. I'm not blaming him but had Magnatom been on the brakes 5 seconds earlier then there wouldn't be an incident to report. It's just that drivers are going to do their thing, they're not going to see us, they're not going to slow down, they see where they're going to go and they go, and often without a thought of anyone else on the road. Thankfully however, most of the time the cyclist is in a position to deal with the situation without crashing. In Magnatom's case it seemed that it was the duo of luck and reactions that saved his bacon, not the two most reliable comrades when your life is on the line.


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## BentMikey (3 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Sorry but the above is rubbish (I'll refrain from saying bollox as I am trying to change my posting style)
> 
> It would take an age for the cement to go off in the back of a cement mix truck.



I'm not sure this is correct. It would depend on the particular cement mix and the length of the journey to the construction site. I've seen numerous construction programmes where cement trucks are being turned away because they've taken too long to get to the site.


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## Browser (3 Mar 2010)

661-Pete said:


> So: how long then? I'm sure it has happened.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_mixer




Uder these circumstances, it will happen. The quoted text you posted stated that:

"If the truck breaks down or for some other reason the concrete hardens in the truck, workers need to enter the barrel with jackhammers"

Well, under these circumstances, what else is supposed to happen?
Truck breaks down = drum stops turning, concrete willset. 
Concrete hardens = concrete is setting.

The implication I picked up from the presious poster was that mixer drivers are either paid by the mile or per load delivered, hence the need for speed.


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## Coco (3 Mar 2010)

BentMikey said:


> I've seen numerous construction programmes where cement trucks are being turned away because they've taken too long to get to the site.



I'm sure there is more interesting TV than that available


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## fossyant (3 Mar 2010)

Coco said:


> I'm sure there is more interesting TV than that available



Top Gear of course....


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## SBH (3 Mar 2010)

661-Pete said:


> Of course. But this does nothing about the trucker who overtakes you and then left-hooks you. Or does what Magnatom's tanker driver did.
> 
> As it happens I was close to being left-hooked by a lorry the other day. Not a tanker or cement truck, but one of the less-common wagon-and-drag type: a rigid lorry pulling an equal-sized trailer. I was not filtering past him: he was overtaking me and then about to turn left.



What always amazes me is how, for so many motorists once they have completed their overtake, the cyclist ceases to exist in their mind. There's this almost certain blind-spot in the non-cycling motorist's brain that tags the cyclist as 'slow moving obstacle' such that, once they're past you, you're no longer there. 

Back on topic, glad you're okay Magnatom. Watching your video this morning really makes you think! While there are some impatient, ignorant and downright dangerous nuggets out there on the roads, most of the incidents I've see are down to a lack of care, awareness and thinking. I wonder which category your would-be 'death by dangerous driving' cretin falls into?


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2010)

Norm said:


> Your life in their hands?
> 
> Life without Road Tax
> 
> ...



Well they(WHSmiths) can get you a copy of "How To shoot In The Woods" & its followup "Up shoot Creek". So maybe not that much work required.


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## jig-sore (3 Mar 2010)

SBH said:


> What always amazes me is how, for so many motorists once they have completed their overtake, the cyclist ceases to exist in their mind. There's this almost certain blind-spot in the non-cycling motorist's brain that tags the cyclist as 'slow moving obstacle' such that, once they're past you, you're no longer there.



+1


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## 661-Pete (3 Mar 2010)

As soon as cement is mixed with water, it will start to set. Simple. It's a chemical process, no power on Earth can stop it happening - eventually. I believe that the continual rotation of the truck's cylinder slows down the process, but it's still inevitable - given time.

I reckon however that it's the driver's _fear_ that he'll be stuck with a load of undeliverable - and unpourable - concrete - that eggs him on to drive at excessive speed and take unreasonable risks. Or - as Bentmikey points out - the fear that if he's late the site foreman may reject his delivery and he'll lose his bonus: concrete which is poured too late may appear to pour OK, but may be shorn of some of its strength. Whatever the reason, I've seen these lorries driven more aggressively than other types of lorry.


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## Ashaman42 (3 Mar 2010)

On one of the hills on my commute I will often pull into a side road or driveway if I have a bigger vehicle approaching behind me, basically anything bigger than a van.

Well I'm glad I did the time it was a cement mixer as when it went past me I saw it was sloshing a near constant stream of cementy water that was falling a foot or two to the left of the rear end.

Had it overtaken me riding along the road I'd have been rather soggy, as it was I was turning round in the side road in order to rejoin the main road and escaped.


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## classic33 (3 Mar 2010)

In trying to get the registration number have you tried windows movie maker. It may enable you to go through that piece "frame by frame". Work with/from which ever gives the better result.


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## Armegatron (3 Mar 2010)

SBH said:


> What always amazes me is how, for so many motorists once they have completed their overtake, the cyclist ceases to exist in their mind. There's this almost certain blind-spot in the non-cycling motorist's brain that tags the cyclist as 'slow moving obstacle' such that, once they're past you, you're no longer there.


Like this or this?


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## downfader (4 Mar 2010)

Just caught this last night on Trucknet and this Bobthedog character lives in cloud cuckoo land it seems:



> I will not watch his clips so he doesn't get the penny from my click.



Ehh.. how do you get pennies from clicks. Idiot. Does he not understand how youtube works? 



> I would never agree that you should be able to squish anyone, but every time someone does get caught by a left turning truck at a set of lights it becomes something else for the bike brigade to mash truck drivers about, and that sceanario is entirely the cyclists fault.



He obviously hasnt delved any deeper in the accident stats regarding large vehicles and cyclists, or spoken to any of us. All he has to do is google back dated threads and he will see the respect we have for them. 

The "left turning truck" seems to be a media brush anyway, as it doesnt seem to happen like that in a fair few of the cases. The case of Eilidh Cairns should serve as one sad example: LINK for his viewing (if he's reading this) 



> While some are battering all cyclists, cyclists invariably bash all truck drivers. There is an imbalance in the whole argument.



Again, he only has to search back posts here, Bikerader, the CTC forums even, and he will see the respect. 



> Personally, I think cyclists should be forced to sit a test for hazard perception and for road law, and they should have a sticker or plate attached to their cycles to show they have sat the test. In modern road travel, whatever mode is used, there is simply too much traffic to allow particularly vulnerable people to ride as if they either have superpowers or that God is on their side. A real, recognisable test would help, and it would educate cyclists in the art of road use. Many lack that particular ability or talent



Vast majority of UK born cyclists did cycle proficiency for one. Many people are doing Bikeability etc. The vast majority of those cycling on the roads have taken a driving test.. I see a lot of drivers that have no hazard perception or "talent" (not LGV or HGV drivers I'll add)

If we go down the compulsary training route it should be done in schools for all vehicles, not just bikes. Your first experiences of riding a bike will have been whilst at school more than likely. Given the impetuousness of youth these are the most vulnerable agegroup (under 25s).

I'll leave out the insult of the comment he left about Mags, though I'm sure he might see eventually see it. This one (supposed) trucker has no idea why we've all taken up cameras and perhaps should either talk to cyclists a little more instead of staying in his own little quadrant or try and do some research. Its nothing personal, we just want things to be made safer, and even he must surely realise that the odds are stacked against us.


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## wafflycat (4 Mar 2010)

Don't forget, Downfader, that as cyclists, 

1. None of us drive a motor
2. We're all penniless
3. We haven't grown up yet
4. We all jump red lights
5. We all cycle on the pavements when we should bugger off on to the roads
6. We all cycle on the roads when we should bugger off on to the pavements
7. We don't pay road tax
8. We're all Guardian-reading, yoghurt bathing, museli-knitting, tree-hugging lefties who think we're soooooo smug saving the planet by cycling

yadda, yadda, yadda.

You get my drift.


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## wafflycat (4 Mar 2010)

Damn... forgot

9. Eat nothing but lentils.


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## wafflycat (4 Mar 2010)

Damn. Forgot...

10, Can never get a sh*g, as obviously we're so unattractive we're all still virgins.


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## Armegatron (4 Mar 2010)

11. Shave our legs


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## Landslide (4 Mar 2010)

wafflycat said:


> 9. Eat nothing but lentils.



12. Fart lots.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (4 Mar 2010)

13. We're all gay too (not sure whether that applies to women on bikes though)


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## 4F (4 Mar 2010)

14. We don't have jobs


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## downfader (4 Mar 2010)

LMAO!! yeah comments like that make me WANT to ride over a granny on a pavement in me sandles whilst munching a muisli bar.


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## wafflycat (4 Mar 2010)

downfader said:


> LMAO!! yeah comments like that make me WANT to ride over a granny on a pavement in me sandles whilst munching a muisli bar.



I do hope that you'll be wearing argyle socks with your sandals... standards an'all.


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## hackbike 666 (4 Mar 2010)

....and spell muesli right.


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## addictfreak (4 Mar 2010)

wafflycat said:


> Damn. Forgot...
> 
> 10, Can never get a sh*g, as obviously we're so unattractive we're all still virgins.




Ok who told you about me


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## fossyant (4 Mar 2010)

3. I'll go along with that...grow up...never !


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## BentMikey (4 Mar 2010)

fossyant said:


> 3. I'll go along with that...grow up...never !



Absolutely - you don't stop playing when you grow old, you grow old when you stop playing.


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## downfader (4 Mar 2010)

hackbike 666 said:


> ....and spell muesli right.



Didn sey it woz brane fooooood!


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## Telemark (4 Mar 2010)

just spotted this thread - glad you are still alive and kicking cycling! 

T


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## HJ (5 Mar 2010)

See I told you _they_ are out to get you...


Glad to see they missed!


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## chap (5 Mar 2010)

Just watched the video, and am rather shocked by it. I am glad it ended well, in that you were not hit, and I am also glad you posted this online and to the police. In London there have been several deaths caused by HGV drivers, to think that one could kill pulling a manoeuvre like that then get off either scot-free (no pun) or serve less than a year is sickening, although this has happened over the last year.

I have one request: could you edit your initial post and link the video there. Whilst it does not take too long to dig through the comments, it will make it easier for others, thus more will be likely to watch it.


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## earth (5 Mar 2010)

I watched this as well. It's horrifying. Today I had a brush as well and I remember 2 years ago a similar thing happened to me where an HGV just ploughed onto a RaB while I was on it. That time the RaB was wide enough for me to move to the right. I was still filling my pants though.

Now, as I said in my own accident thread. If people are allowed to drive this badly then they are going to cause an accident. In this case it will be very serious or fatal. Why are people unable to understand that we must prevent accidents from happening rather than allow this kind of driving until it does cause an accident.


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## fossyant (5 Mar 2010)

Mags....have the police been round yet ?

Not commented on the vid too much, but as it passed I thought the trailer's front edge of the 'side guards' were gonna take you off....sheesh that was close........ there is not much to bounce off with a truck....


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## magnatom (5 Mar 2010)

Hi Guys,

Sorry, I've been away at a course in Edinburgh. I'm always amazed at how many more cyclists there are in Edinburgh than there are in Glasgow!

Thanks for the comments folks.

Fossy, at the time of the incident it was the side guards that I thought were going to catch me. It was close!

Chap, good idea. I'll add it now...


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## HLaB (6 Mar 2010)

I just met the wife of your Driver mags, it seems to be a family thing. Fortunately she was driving an estate so I had a bit more room and had already sussed out 'she's not going to stop'


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## magnatom (6 Mar 2010)

HLaB said:


> I just met the wife of your Driver mags, it seems to be a family thing. Fortunately she was driving an estate so I had a bit more room and had already sussed out 'she's not going to stop'



Blimey! She was driving a whole housing scheme! Now that would be scary coming towards you!


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## HLaB (6 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Blimey! She was driving a whole housing scheme! Now that would be scary coming towards you!


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## Pip (6 Mar 2010)

Just read the entire thread (Need to get out more) THEN watched the video...... I spent most of the time reading the thread thinking this is going to be over-reacted to and over hyped....but HOLY MOTHER OF GOD that was close! Whatever the driver was thinking of it clearly didn't involve braking......

Glad you're ok and still with us!


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## magnatom (7 Mar 2010)

Just a quick and not very detailed update.

I got a call (actually 5 in the end!) from the police today. For a while it looked like they weren't going to take my complaint very seriously. However, after chatting to them again, and them going away and actually looking at the evidence , they have agreed to take it further. 

I can't give any further details in public as I am sure you can understand.


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## chap (7 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Sorry, I've been away at a course in Edinburgh. I'm always amazed at how many more cyclists there are in Edinburgh than there are in Glasgow!




Less hills


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## magnatom (7 Mar 2010)

chap said:


> Less hills




Not in the centre, but yes, in the suburbs and surrounding areas it probably is hillier.


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## The Jogger (7 Mar 2010)

Glad the Police are taking this up, that was outrageous driving and he or she deserves to be locked up. What a shock you had..........


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## ttcycle (7 Mar 2010)

Good luck Mags


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## Ghost Donkey (8 Mar 2010)

That's about as close as I've seen. Good reactions on your part. Hopefully the police will see it your way.


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## downfader (8 Mar 2010)

The Jogger said:


> Glad the Police are taking this up, that was outrageous driving and he or she deserves to be locked up. What a shock you had..........



I dont know about locked up, but his employers, even H&S need to review him...


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## HJ (9 Mar 2010)

chap said:


> Less hills


 ?

Are you sure you have cycled in either Edinburgh or Glasgow?


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

Just an update to inform you that the driver has now been charged. Obviously I can't go into any more detail.

At the request of the police the video has been removed.


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## ttcycle (9 Mar 2010)

Good one mags - nice work getting it recognised. Hope it continues to proceed well!


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## addictfreak (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Just an update to inform you that the driver has now been charged. Obviously I can't go into any more detail.
> 
> At the request of the police the video has been removed.




Nice one

Will you be able to claim for those underpants you ruined!


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

It's funny. I don't feel particularly pleased. In some ways it's great that it is being taken seriously, in others I feel bad as he must be going through a bad time. 

Very mixed emotions.


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## ttcycle (9 Mar 2010)

It's only human to feel that and is a good thing but at the same time the driver needs to take responsibility for his/her actions and the impact on self and others.


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## Telemark (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> It's funny. I don't feel particularly pleased. In some ways it's great that it is being taken seriously, in others I feel bad as he must be going through a bad time.
> 
> Very mixed emotions.



I understand what you are saying but ...
How would you be feeling if somebody else was hit by them next week, or if you hadn't somehow managed to stay away from those wheels ... 

If there are mitigating circumstances, they will be taken into account. But the responsibility is with the driver, not you.

T


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

ttcycle said:


> It's only human to feel that and is a good thing but at the same time the driver needs to take responsibility for his/her actions and the impact on self and others.



Aye, I know that, and I understand all of the logic behind it. Doesn't make it feel any nicer of course. 

Anyway, there is a long way to go...


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## thomas (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> It's funny. I don't feel particularly pleased. In some ways it's great that it is being taken seriously, in others I feel bad as he must be going through a bad time.
> 
> Very mixed emotions.



It's probably a good thing you're not taking any pleasure in it, but it was definitely the right decision.


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

Telemark said:


> I understand what you are saying but ...
> How would you be feeling if somebody else was hit by them next week, or if you hadn't somehow managed to stay away from those wheels ...
> 
> If there are mitigating circumstances, they will be taken into account. But the responsibility is with the driver, not you.
> ...


Indeed. If I hadn't changed my brake blocks the week before I might have had a metre longer stopping distance....


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## mr_cellophane (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Just an update to inform you that the driver has now been charged. Obviously I can't go into any more detail.
> 
> At the request of the police the video has been removed.



Can you say what he was charged with ?


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## downfader (9 Mar 2010)

I'd echo the others, the driver made a stupid move that could have been avoided, dont feel bad.

Will the mods here need to lock this thread if he's been charged? Legal reasons and all that?


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## Coco (9 Mar 2010)

Don't feel bad for the driver. Anything that happens to him/her is entirely their own responsibility. We all make mistakes in life, but how we deal with them defines our character. I suspect if the driver had stopped (even on the other side of the roundabout) and apologised, you would have dealt with it differently. 
Don't go all Stockholm on us


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

downfader said:


> I'd echo the others, the driver made a stupid move that could have been avoided, dont feel bad.
> 
> Will the mods here need to lock this thread if he's been charged? Legal reasons and all that?




I don't know about that. The police are possibly poping in tonight to take a statement. I'll ask them then.


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## boydj (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> It's funny. I don't feel particularly pleased. In some ways it's great that it is being taken seriously, in others I feel bad as he must be going through a bad time.
> 
> Very mixed emotions.



He certainly should be feeling bad at this moment, but it's probably nowhere near as bad as he would have been feeling had you not changed those brake blocks and been so alert.


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## arallsopp (9 Mar 2010)

+1 with boydj. Had you not been so fortunate, he would have very likely had screaming nightmares for the rest of his life AND possibly be unable to drive again. Losing a job has a big impact, but he's got to know he's getting off lightly.


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## shippers (9 Mar 2010)

Was the roundabout part of your regular communte? If so, I'd be tempted to find a different route for a little while.

Don't feel bad- he'll probably get a due care and attention charge and some element of retraining from his employer. Hopefully he'll become a more responsible tanker driver!


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2010)

How would you feel if you hadn't done what you have done, ignored it & later someone was killed by either the same driver or another driver(presuming on this part), coming from the same depot, on the same stretch of road? 

You had a chance to prevent anyone else getting hurt, at best. 
If nowt else look at it that way


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I don't know about that. *The police are possibly poping in tonight to take a statement.* I'll ask them then.



Is this what is meant by taking it to a higher authority?


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## magnatom (9 Mar 2010)

The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!


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## thomas (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!



They said that when I was 15/16 and got punched by someone who a good few years older for no reason. I am sure it is more genuine in your case, but anyone with some sense would act in a certain way when dealing with the Police.

Ultimately, however the driver feels now and what ever the conscience, you definitely did the right thing.


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## trickletreat (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!



What he did is almost kill you. He is a professional driver. He should know better. The young pc should not in anyway sway you, and if she comments again then call professional standards.

Its good that he is sorry, what else can he say! He committed a serious offence.


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## fossyant (9 Mar 2010)

Look folks....Mags was very lucky....that's how it happens............sometimes........... let the legal systems sort themselves out........


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## boydj (9 Mar 2010)

trickletreat said:


> What he did is almost kill you. He is a professional driver. He should know better. The young pc should not in anyway sway you, and if she comments again then call professional standards.
> 
> Its good that he is sorry, what else can he say! He committed a serious offence.



Professional Standards is maybe a bit strong, but the point is correct that the driver brought this on himself either by some gross negligence in not seeing the cyclist, or he made a deliberate decision to put the cyclist's life in danger. He may be a lovely guy and genuinely remorseful, but he would not have given the incident a second thought if he had not been reported. And then what happens next time?


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## Cab (9 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!



I don't care that he's well meaning, he's a danger on the roads and if the result of your near death experience is that he's not left in control of such a vehicle any more thats definitely a good thing.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Mar 2010)

At best he was shockingly incompetent, in a life-threatening way, while in command of a tanker. But what would make it very hard for me to have *any* sympathy for this supposedly 'top bloke' is that from the video, I find it very hard to believe that it *was* incompetence - ie, a SMIDSY. Everything about that video leads me to believe that he saw you, but simply decided to keep going. And that, to me, makes him not merely an incompetent (and no incompetent has any place at the wheel of a tanker) but a scumbag, who made a conscious decision to take a chance with another person's life rather than inconvenience himself by slowing down for a few seconds. That's not my idea of a top bloke. And I for one would be/will be pleased - without reservation - if he never gets to drive a tanker again. 

And who knows, maybe word will get around...


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## swee'pea99 (9 Mar 2010)

Oh, and I forgot to say, well done Mags. It's *only* by people like this getting charged that this kind of behaviour gets changed. You've made the roads safer for all of us.


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## gaz (9 Mar 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99']At best he was shockingly incompetent, in a life-threatening way, while in command of a tanker. But what would make it very hard for me to have *any* sympathy for this supposedly 'top bloke' is that from the video, I find it very hard to believe that it *was* incompetence - ie, a SMIDSY. Everything about that video leads me to believe that he saw you, but simply decided to keep going. And that, to me, makes him not merely an incompetent (and no incompetent has any place at the wheel of a tanker) but a scumbag, who made a conscious decision to take a chance with another person's life rather than inconvenience himself by slowing down for a few seconds. That's not my idea of a top bloke. And I for one would be/will be pleased - without reservation - if he never gets to drive a tanker again. 

And who knows, maybe word will get around...[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth...


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## Norm (10 Mar 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99']Oh, and I forgot to say, well done Mags. It's *only* by people like this getting charged that this kind of behaviour gets changed. You've made the roads safer for all of us.[/QUOTE]
+1


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## slowmotion (10 Mar 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99']At best he was shockingly incompetent, in a life-threatening way, while in command of a tanker. But what would make it very hard for me to have *any* sympathy for this supposedly 'top bloke' is that from the video, I find it very hard to believe that it *was* incompetence - ie, a SMIDSY. Everything about that video leads me to believe that he saw you, but simply decided to keep going. And that, to me, makes him not merely an incompetent (and no incompetent has any place at the wheel of a tanker) but a scumbag, who made a conscious decision to take a chance with another person's life rather than inconvenience himself by slowing down for a few seconds. That's not my idea of a top bloke. And I for one would be/will be pleased - without reservation - if he never gets to drive a tanker again. 

And who knows, maybe word will get around...[/QUOTE]


Yes. He nearly killed you, If he had, would your family feel great about it? The guy needs some kind of re-education so that he doesn't do the Full Monty on somebody else. If he loses his job, that's a whole lot better than somebody else losing their life in future. Forget him.


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## BentMikey (10 Mar 2010)

+1 to swee'pea.


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## Jezston (10 Mar 2010)

+1 to that. And;



magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!



Sorry because he got charged. Sorry because his career is in the balance. Sorry _for himself_. If he really was a genuine, top bloke and was really sorry for what he did he wouldn't have done what he did, and if he had he would have at least stopped and checked you were ok and apologised. He didn't. F**k him.


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## magnatom (10 Mar 2010)

Thanks guys. I still feel cr@p but as you say, this was his doing, not mine.


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## MacB (10 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Thanks guys. I still feel cr@p but as you say, this was his doing, not mine.



Mags, I'd only be worried if you didn't feel crap, you should, it's empathy and it's normal. This is where the law takes over and should act on behalf of society. The driver should also feel crap, that's normal as well.


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## Twenty Inch (10 Mar 2010)

+ 1 to swee'pea. He's only sorry cos the coppers have come around, and they've got a video to prove the assertion. I'm sure he didn't give your near-death a second thought until that moment.


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## Norm (10 Mar 2010)

My guess is that he is not sorry for what he did, just sorry that he got caught.


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## Crankarm (10 Mar 2010)

Norm said:


> My guess is that he is not sorry for what he did, just sorry that he got caught.



+1. Norm - on the money as always.


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## HJ (10 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Thanks guys. I still feel cr@p but as you say, this was his doing, not mine.



Think how you would feel if you hadn't reported it and someone else got hit a week later...

You are doing the right thing.


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## dodgy (10 Mar 2010)

I think this might be one of the few videos I've seen where video evidence has been crucial in getting the police to act and escalating to a charge. I'm not saying it hasn't happened before, just that I haven't seen it (I don't spend as much time here as I once did).
Nice one Mags, I think I'd be feeling the same as you though - it will pass.


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## ComedyPilot (10 Mar 2010)

The reason Mags feels the way he does is because he feels responsibility.

This is not Mags issue to feel responsible for, it is the truck driver's.


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## Jezston (10 Mar 2010)

Crankarm said:


> +1. Norm - on the money as always.



Hey! I said it first!


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## jamesxyz (10 Mar 2010)

Some of you are being a bit harsh on this guy about which we know very little, there may have been mitigating circumstances and we all make mistakes - he might have a wife and young family to support.

Having said that, you're right to proceed with charges Mags, he deserves to be charged, even if he does get let off with a caution in the end - perhaps it'll make him and his work mates a little more cautious in future. If he genuinely wan't looking / on phone etc he deserves everything he gets and more -


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## 661-Pete (10 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.  Ah pooh!


IIRC, when I 'shopped' a wrongdoer (much more minor offence) and had a statement taken, the officer was meticulous in *not saying anything about the person's character*. All he volunteered, was that the offender was male, that he admitted the offence and to being 'a bit drunk' at the time (note: he wasn't driving) . I think 'my' constable acted correctly by the book, and 'yours' perhaps was a bit out of order?

Unless you were 'steering' the conversation, possibly. I only ask!


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## Arch (10 Mar 2010)

jamesxyz said:


> Some of you are being a bit harsh on this guy about which we know very little, there may have been mitigating circumstances and we all make mistakes - he might have a wife and young family to support.




What 'mitigating' circumstances do you think there might be? Blindness? Impatience? Stupidity? On the phone?

If he's got a family to support, he wants to be a bit more carfeul he doesn't do anything that might lose him his job. And, slightly more importantly, that he doesn't nearly kill anyone...


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## Coco (10 Mar 2010)

jamesxyz said:


> - he might have a wife and young family to support.



Must remember that one for my defence next time I kill someone (did I really say *next* time  )

That's not for Mags to worry about. If he was genuinely remorseful he would have stopped the lorry when he got off the RAB and apologised. There is no way he could have failed to see (or at least hear) Magnatom.


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## downfader (10 Mar 2010)

jamesxyz said:


> Some of you are being a bit harsh on this guy about which we know very little, there may have been mitigating circumstances and we all make mistakes - he might have a wife and young family to support.
> 
> Having said that, you're right to proceed with charges Mags, he deserves to be charged, even if he does get let off with a caution in the end - perhaps it'll make him and his work mates a little more cautious in future. If he genuinely wan't looking / on phone etc he deserves everything he gets and more -



I would go a stage further. The driver concerned may well be a top bloke, but I know top blokes who have gone behind the wheel, or on two wheels and acted like a complete tool. The driver could easily have avoided this.

The driver who hit me came across as a nice bloke at the scene. The police however wouldnt tell me anything about him other than they knew who he was and where he was, later they gave me a number to ring to contact him (where he became an evasive c*** who tried to weasel out of his obligations).

This is the way we all need to head. Not just cyclists, but residents and drivers, you name it. If you see something wrong it must be reported. The person who commits the act is in the wrong, not the victim.

Dave, you did the right thing!


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## Arch (10 Mar 2010)

Coco said:


> Must remember that one for my defence next time I kill someone (did I really say *next* time  )



The sad thing is that people do get off with lesser penalties (IE, not getting a ban) because they bleat about needing their car to take the children to school - a rather lesser consideration than supporting a whole family. If they need it that much, they shouldn't drive like idiots.


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## ianrauk (10 Mar 2010)

What about Mags' wife and young family? Due to the actions of a reckless, inconsiderate, moronic and imo, deliberate actions of the driver, a husband and father to a young family was needlessly placed in mortal danger. 




jamesxyz said:


> Some of you are being a bit harsh on this guy about which we know very little, there may have been mitigating circumstances and we all make mistakes - *he might have a wife and young family to support.*
> 
> Having said that, you're right to proceed with charges Mags, he deserves to be charged, even if he does get let off with a caution in the end - perhaps it'll make him and his work mates a little more cautious in future. If he genuinely wan't looking / on phone etc he deserves everything he gets and more -


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## addictfreak (10 Mar 2010)

ianrauk said:


> What about Mags' wife and young family? Due to the actions of a reckless, inconsiderate, moronic and imo, deliberate actions of the driver, a husband and father to a young family was needlessly placed in mortal danger.



I agree with Ian, it could so very easily have been the police family liason officer contacting Mrs Mags.

Very easy to be sorry after the fact. Anyone can make a mistake, but his could have cost a life.


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## ComedyPilot (10 Mar 2010)

addictfreak said:


> Anyone can make a mistake, *but his could have cost a life.*



Magnatom could have scratched the paint on the lorry????


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## shippers (10 Mar 2010)

I wonder if the lovely young PC would have an easier life if Mags were persuaded to accept the appologies of the tanker driver and go on his way? 
Good god, I'm a cynic!


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## ttcycle (10 Mar 2010)

shippers said:


> I wonder if the lovely young PC would have an easier life if Mags were persuaded to accept the appologies of the tanker driver and go on his way?
> Good god, I'm a cynic!



+1 I thought that too and it did seem a tad unprofessional of the police to mention anything about the driver...I don't think you're being cynical


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## Coco (10 Mar 2010)

ttcycle said:


> +1 I thought that too and it did seem a tad unprofessional of the police to mention anything about the driver...I don't think you're being cynical



Ahh, now if Mags had almost been killed by a flash Audi...


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## sheddy (10 Mar 2010)

I bet he will just get 3 points.
We have a ongoing case here with a driver who killed a cyclist on a DC. I'm hoping that her sentence will also reflect on the fact that she fled the scene. Will start a thread when I have more details (Sorry for the rant)


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## bauldbairn (10 Mar 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99']Oh, and I forgot to say, well done Mags. It's *only* by people like this getting charged that this kind of behaviour gets changed. You've made the roads safer for all of us.[/QUOTE]

+1, only just catching up on this thread.


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## scotbiker (11 Mar 2010)

Great news on the charges Magnatom! Do not feel bad in any way for him and don't let the police wifey officer affect you. There is someone out there cycling right now that would've been killed by this twat sooner or later.


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## jamesxyz (11 Mar 2010)

was I being a bit controversial? didn't mean to be ..

I wonder how many of you have had an accident where it was your fault, or reversed your car into a stationary object etc etc etc. all I'm saying is there's a lot of people on here seem to think this guy saw Mags and intentionally drove out (even Mags can't be 100% sure and we weren't there and there is no way you can tell from the camera) - that may be the case and if he did then he deserves to be fired. Even if it was an accident he deserves to be punished but he doesn't need hanging ... Jesus, what sort of justice system would we have if you were locked up everytime you nearly did something ...


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## magnatom (11 Mar 2010)

Thanks again guys for all the comments. I feel more positive about it now. I hadn't looked at the footage for a few days and I had another look at it. It reminded me of just how close I was to checking out. 

The strongest image wasn't captured by the camera though, it is in my head. I just remember just after I had managed to stop looking down at the guard at the side and thinking, that is bl**dy close. However, it was the the following image of the wheels behind it getting closer that led to the yelp! 

I'll be giving my statement to the police tomorrow night (same officer). I really hope she doesn't say how nice he is again. If she does, I might just ask her why she hasn't once sympathised with me about the incident, and also how would she feel about passing on the bad news to my wife and kids had I not stopped short (I won't actually say this, but I'll think it!)


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## wafflycat (11 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Thanks again guys for all the comments. I feel more positive about it now. I hadn't looked at the footage for a few days and I had another look at it. It reminded me of just how close I was to checking out.
> 
> The strongest image wasn't captured by the camera though, it is in my head. I just remember just after I had managed to stop looking down at the guard at the side and thinking, that is bl**dy close. However, it was the the following image of the wheels behind it getting closer that led to the yelp!
> 
> I'll be giving my statement to the police tomorrow night (same officer). I really hope she doesn't say how nice he is again. If she does, *I might just ask her why she hasn't once sympathised with me about the incident, and also how would she feel about passing on the bad news to my wife and kids had I not stopped short (I won't actually say this, but I'll think it!)*



I think you should ask her. Ask her why she thinks the person who, through acting in a dangerous manner, could have so easily have killed you - by driving in such a dangerous manner - who could have left you as nothing more than road pizza on the tarmac - is the subject of her having to tell you repeatedly as to what a nice person he is? Is she related to him?


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## swee'pea99 (11 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> I'll be giving my statement to the police tomorrow night (same officer). I really hope she doesn't say how nice he is again.



I hope so too. But I wouldn't raise it with her. I might well raise it with her bosses though, if she does. Once is out of order; twice would be bang out of order. 

She's absolutely no business to be passing on personal opinions about the niceness or otherwise of those involved on either side in an incident like this. It's highly unprofessional, unquestionably unethical, and I'd be very surprised if it's not contrary to clearly laid out rules & regulations. 

But like I say, I wouldn't raise it with her. It would only get personal and messy. Keep things clean and straightforward, even if she seems determined not to.


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## summerdays (11 Mar 2010)

Just been flicking through the BBC new website and came across the following article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8549619.stm
about how lorry drivers are more likely to be obese (due to type of job, diet, unsocial hours), and the link with sleep apnoea.


> In a period of just four months, at least four cases came before UK courts of drivers of large goods vehicles accused of causing death by dangerous driving.
> All four drivers were suffering from sleep apnoea - diagnosed only after these terrible accidents.
> In one incident it was revealed that a lorry driver involved in a fatal crash had seen his doctor just five months before, complaining of tiredness - but sleep apnoea was not diagnosed.
> At the inquest, the coroner called for a toughening of the licensing regimen for commercial drivers, including regular medical screening.
> He also called for fast-track medical assessment of those involved in road traffic collisions - but stressed that a diagnosis of sleep apnoea was unlikely to force them off the roads.


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## magnatom (11 Mar 2010)

As I said, I'll be thinking it, but not mentioning it. She has actually said it to me on two seperate occasions, once before he was charged (actually twice during the phone call) and once after he was charged (charge can't be dropped by me, so what purpose, apart from making me feel bad, did it serve?)

summerdays, that is interesting, but I din't think it has any bearing on this. He managed to negotiate the roudabout fine, he just didn't notice that I was on it....


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## Rhythm Thief (11 Mar 2010)

summerdays said:


> Just been flicking through the BBC new website and came across the following article:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8549619.stm
> about how lorry drivers are more likely to be obese (due to type of job, diet, unsocial hours), and the link with sleep apnoea.
> 
> ...



This annoys me a little. What's needed is not a "toughening of the licensing regimen for commercial drivers", but an acknowledgement that being in charge of a 44 tonne artic for a 70+ hour working week - perfectly legally and not at all uncommom - is too much. Until it's acknowledged that there's a culture of long hours for transport workers, and that while lorries have become more comfortable and much easier to drive, the organism behind the wheel hasn't changed a lot in two million years, we won't change anything.


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## Rhythm Thief (11 Mar 2010)

Oh, and I should say that it's good news that the police are doing something about the driver in this case. Top bloke or not (and that's not your problem Mags), he needs to at least be made aware that he should approach roundabouts a little more cautiously in future.


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## Valy (11 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> _Looks to me like the tanker driver just didn't see the Lycra clad mushroom headed moron on the childs toy. I doubt very much that there was any malice involved, but the guy was very lucky not to get hurt._
> _So, lessons to be learned.....................instead of spending your money on fancy head cams and skin tight clothes best left in the S&M department, save it up and buy a car._
> 
> _Oh, and while we're on the subject...................as this country is in the finacial toilet at present, isn't it about time that these two wheeled freeloaders were Taxed and Insured, it's a rich revenue stream which has as yet been untapped._
> ...


Oh my God... what a pathetic rant. God damn! 
______________________

OP - I have not seen the video as I've seen the thread a few minutes ago, but having read a fwe bits, I think I got an idea.

I crashed into a car recently, on a RB. It was not anything major, but still - the driver was just looking at a bit of paper as he drove onto the RB. Link to a thread I made on BR if interested/more details.

After my "incident" I really think that getting a camera and having it on for all your rides would be a neat thing, as you have shown for example. I dono if you had many crashes or near-misses before, but one of the things I got out of my collision was that it is real, not just a possibility. 

And of course, just briefly imagining from the descriptions what happened to you... well... not cool. Good thing you made the thread.


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## Crankarm (11 Mar 2010)

Rhythm Thief said:


> This annoys me a little. What's needed is not a "toughening of the licensing regimen for commercial drivers", but an acknowledgement that being in charge of a 44 tonne artic for a 70+ hour working week - perfectly legally and not at all uncommom - is too much. Until it's acknowledged that there's a culture of long hours for transport workers, and that while lorries have become more comfortable and much easier to drive, the organism behind the wheel hasn't changed a lot in *two million years*, we won't change anything.



......You sure about your time scales ?


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## HJ (11 Mar 2010)

jamesxyz said:


> Some of you are being a bit harsh on this guy about which we know very little, *there may have been mitigating circumstances* and we all make mistakes - *he might have a wife and young family to support*.
> 
> Having said that, you're right to proceed with charges Mags, he deserves to be charged, even if he does get let off with a caution in the end - perhaps it'll make him and his work mates a little more cautious in future. If he genuinely wan't looking / on phone etc he deserves everything he gets and more -



What sort of "mitigating circumstances", he drove on the roundabout without slowing down. He is a qualified driver, HGV1 licences don't just drop out of cornflake packets (those are PSV licences). He knows that when approaching a junction you have to slow down and give way to any traffic which has priority (even cyclists). If you make a mistake which nearly kills someone, you have to expect to take the consequences.

As for "he might have a wife and young family to support" so what? Mag has a wife and young family to support, what if he had been killed, would it be OK to say "it was just an accident, we all make mistakes"? Why should we tolerate poor driving? Why should we accept 2946 people being killed and 26,034 seriously injured on the roads every year? Nearly all of these KSIs are avoidable, so why are we expected to just accept it?


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## Matthames (12 Mar 2010)

The police officer is behaving unprofessionally if she is sympathising with the lorry driver like that. She needs to be impartial through out the investigation, it is not her job to side with anyone. It will be for the courts to decide on the drivers character and how remorseful he is. The only people who should be siding with him are his defence lawyers.

If you believe she is behaving in an unprofessional manner, then there is the option of making a complaint to the PCCS: http://www.pcc-scotland.org/


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Mar 2010)

Crankarm said:


> ......You sure about your time scales ?



Give or take a year or two, yes.


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## summerdays (12 Mar 2010)

I didn't think it had any bearing on this case ... just that it was interesting that the typical life style of a lorry driver tended to make them potentially more dangerous... due to an increased risk of sleep apneoa. 

Trying to think nice of the policewoman - perhaps she is just trying to reassure you that he didn't come across as someone out to kill cyclists - which is what we know anyway ... most motorist aren't ... but if they don't take notice of us and other road users then that is what they may do anyway. And that isn't good enough - they need to realise they are sitting in a potentially lethal weapon and drive responsibly.


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## Spinney (12 Mar 2010)

summerdays said:


> Trying to think nice of the policewoman - perhaps she is just trying to reassure you that he didn't come across as someone out to kill cyclists - which is what we know anyway ... most motorist aren't ...



...or that he at least has the intelligence to pretend to the nice police lady that he is not out to kill cyclists....

[/cynic mode]


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## nigelb (12 Mar 2010)

For some reason, in this country we seem to feel differently about the dangerous things people do, depending on what they do them with.

If they drink and drive, we know its wrong, but nothing like wandering round with a loaded shotgun in a public place - what is the difference?
Dangerous driving, or driving without due care, can and does kill people - that's why its an offence that can carry (relatively) high penalties.

You shouldn't feel bad about this guy being reported. If he ends up in court, and is found guilty, then mitigating circumstances should be considered when sentencing.

As others have said, if you'd kept quiet, and found next day that a lorry driver had killed a cyclist, you would never forgive yourself (one conviction will lead to many drivers reconsidering how they drive, the good implications of your actions will spread wide). If your encounter had come 2' closer, I suspect the state would have shown your loved ones considerably less compassion than you're showing the lorry driver!

I drive, and I cycle - we all need to show consideration for each other, and those who don't need to be brought to task.

Final thought, I wonder how many cyclists and car drivers he's intimidated and endangered in the past, learning that he can get away with it because he's in a big truck?

Nige


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## Happiness Stan (12 Mar 2010)

Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.


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## BentMikey (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.






Why on earth would you post something so utterly unrealistic?


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## Sh4rkyBloke (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.


What a strange thing to say. Are you a bit dim?


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## Landslide (12 Mar 2010)




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## wafflycat (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.



*sniff* *sniff*

ah yes, the unmistakable scent of liquid bovine bowel movements associated with a trolling comment


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## hackbike 666 (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.




So you are saying it's ok to drive like that then?


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> I thought the max hours were 60 per week (including POA) because of the WTD?



They are in theory. In practice, it hasn't made much difference. Not that I go anywhere near my hours any more.


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Mar 2010)

nigelb said:


> Final thought, I wonder how many cyclists and car drivers he's intimidated and endangered in the past, learning that he can get away with it because he's in a big truck?
> 
> Nige



Probably not that many. It looked to me like Mags was behind his mirror and the driver just didn't see him. It's not an excuse - I always look round and under my mirrors as well as in them when I'm approaching a roundabout - but it might be a reason.


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## Twenty Inch (12 Mar 2010)

Rhythm Thief said:


> Probably not that many. It looked to me like Mags was behind his mirror and the driver just didn't see him. It's not an excuse - *I always look round and under my mirrors as well *as in them when I'm approaching a roundabout - but it might be a reason.



Indeed, if I don't see a truck-driver's head going up and down and from side to side at a junction, I become very cautious.


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## thomas (12 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Great idea!! Let's go out and get cut up by a truck on a roundabout with my front wheel only a foot from the rear wheels on the trailer.
> 
> That'll make some great film that will!!



You forget Lee, that everyone with a Helmet Camera goes out trying to get squished just for some good film


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## magnatom (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.



Yes you're right. That's why on my current commute I much much prefer taking the back-road route where if I am lucky I see about 4 cars over about 4 miles compared to the quicker 'A' road where I see a couple of hundred cars. I am much more likely to have some 'exciting' footage staring sheep, horses and ikle wikle bunny wabbits on the back roads. Just you wait, it'll make me a star......

(Actually, the sort of footage involving animals that would make me a star, might not last too long on youtube......)


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## magnatom (12 Mar 2010)

User3143 said:


> Great idea!! Let's go out and get cut up by a truck on a roundabout with my front wheel only a foot from the rear wheels on the trailer.
> 
> That'll make some great film that will!!



Come on Lee, you know I have the bike skills to carry it off........


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## Norm (12 Mar 2010)

thomas said:


> You forget Lee, that everyone with a Helmet Camera goes out trying to get squished just for some good film


Lucky I have a rucksack camera rather than a helmet camera. 

Besides, most of the roads I use are tracks or have weight limits. I hope that me on the bike doesn't exceed 7.5 tonnes, but I'm a bit worried about checking.  

Most of my footage is fun little rides in the country, which end up looking like this.


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## Bollo (12 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Come on Lee, you know I have the bike skills to carry it off........



Somewhere, a defence lawyer punches the air and rings his lorry driver client....
"I've got proof! The mushroom-head is a pathological liar!"


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## Bollo (12 Mar 2010)

On to much more serious matters. Thinking ahead, if all this makes it to court (I'm not in the know, just speculating) then I imagine its the kind of story that even the nationals might tip their hat towards on a quiet day. That's likely to unleash the forces of vox-pop hell upon Maggers. I really really hope for the good doctor's sake that this doesn't induce some of the less well balanced members of society to start issuing some quite serious threats again.


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## classic33 (12 Mar 2010)

Happiness Stan said:


> Magnatom has been gagging to capture an incident like this for years. Now it's time for him to put his big girl pants on and do something about it. Otherwise put the camera away.



Who in their right minds goes looking for this sort of incident. "I know I've got a camera fitted , lets see how close I can actually get to the side of that truck approaching from my left without hitting it"

Its also not his job, now that this has happenned to do "something about it" other than what he has already done. Reporting the incident to the police, for them to deal with.

I don't know where you come from but if you cycle that way, with a camera here's a piece of advice. *"Get of the road & leave the bike at home"*


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## Dayvo (12 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> On to much more serious matters. Thinking ahead, if all this makes it to court (I'm not in the know, just speculating) then I imagine its the kind of story that even the nationals might tip their hat towards on a quiet day. That's likely to unleash the forces of vox-pop hell upon Maggers. I really really hope for the good doctor's sake that this doesn't induce some of the less well balanced members of society to start issuing some quite serious threats again.



That same thought occurred to me, too, Bollo! 

Let's hope we're wrong, or that cyclists unite against the prejudiced treatment of bad/dangerous driving inflicted on us!

Keep going, Mags, but keep safe, too!


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## magnatom (12 Mar 2010)

As a police officer once said to me in relation to my original death threats, 'yer no Martin Luther King...'. 

However, having been lucky enough to go on safari on a few occasions in the past (pre-children) I have some first hand knowledge on how dangerous Hippos can be......


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## magnatom (12 Mar 2010)

I've now made my statement. The PC didn't mention how nice the driver was this time! (Ironically she seems quite nice and genuine herself! ).

She did say how it could take a number of months before I hear from the Procurator Fiscal. So there won't be news for a while.

I will of course let you know if there is any news (detail will have to wait until the investigation is over, of course).


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## fossyant (12 Mar 2010)

Good on you....that was terrible driving....... enough said.............


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## D-Rider (13 Mar 2010)

Coming to this late, mags, so haven't seen the vid but sounds awful. Glad you are OK!


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## Bman (30 Jun 2010)

Bump!

Any news mags?


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jun 2010)

D-Rider said:


> Coming to this late, mags, so haven't seen the vid but sounds awful. Glad you are OK!



It was shocking...hope they did something about it.


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## swee'pea99 (30 Jun 2010)

C'mon lads, be reasonable - it's only been three and a half months. They've probably only just got the doughnuts in...


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## Landslide (30 Jun 2010)

Mmmmmmm, doughnuts...


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## gbb (30 Jun 2010)

Just glad you're ok magnatom.
We all complain about incidents, usually quite rightly, but just once in a blue moon (thankfully) a REALLY scary one happens, and you realise sometimes most incidents are actually not life threatening.
Twice in 20 years ive had one where you think...another second, another couple of inches  Doesnt bear thinking about sometimes.


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## magnatom (30 Jun 2010)

Hi Guys,

Away on a course in Cambridge at the moment, so not much chance to be on here!

No word yet. I wouldn't expect anything yet. The wheels of justice are slow....


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Jul 2010)

magnatom said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Away on a course in Cambridge at the moment, so not much chance to be on here!
> 
> No word yet. I wouldn't expect anything yet. *The wheels of justice are slow*....


unlike the wheels of idiot tanker drivers!


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## magnatom (18 Oct 2010)

Hi Folks,

I just thought I'd update on this.

The incident happened on the 1st March 2010. I have yet to hear anything about the case. So last month I contacted the Procurator Fiscal to find out what was happening. For some reason they passed the query onto the Dumbarton office (the incident happened in Milngavie!). Anyway the allowed 21 working days have passed and I heard nothing. So I have chased the PF office up again. 

I am beginning to get concerned about this. I know things can take a while, but surely this is getting on a bit? Does anyone on here work for the PF office, or have dealings with them?


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## marmalade400 (18 Oct 2010)

magnatom said:


> The police can't make it tonight, the young constable just phoned me. Obviously I can't say much, however, the one thing I will say is that she keeps on saying how the bloke seems a genuine, top bloke and is really sorry for what he did.



Come on, you didn't expect them to take action against such a top bloke did you?
The bitter cynic in me says that the driver is probably related to someone in the police and the files were probably 'lost'.


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## magnatom (18 Oct 2010)

I'm not making any judgments just yet, as I have not heard back from the PF office yet. It is possible that it is progressing. 

If no action is taken then I am more than capable of generating some publicity surrounding the incident to highlight the issue. 


I'll wait and see.....


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## Simon_m (18 Oct 2010)

sounds bad, very scarey. hope to see the video one day


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## Peter10 (18 Oct 2010)

marmalade400 said:


> Come on, you didn't expect them to take action against such a top bloke did you?
> The bitter cynic in me says that the driver is probably related to someone in the police and the files were probably 'lost'.



If you believe that then you are an utter idiot...


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## magnatom (18 Oct 2010)

Simon_m said:


> sounds bad, very scarey. hope to see the video one day



As soon as it has all reached a conclusion I'll repost the video. I just reminded myself by looking at it this morning. It still sends shivers down my spine!


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## marmalade400 (18 Oct 2010)

Peter10 said:


> If you believe that then you are an utter idiot...



I have no way of knowing what is actually going on. I have had injustice for breakfast and corruption for lunch; the result was a bit of cynical speculation. I tried to make that apparent but obviously failed. Sorry about that.

I assume you have no inside information either, and you are free to speculate in a more hopeful, trusting manner if you see fit. I don't think it makes you an utter idiot if that is the case, I admire your positivity.


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## Crankarm (18 Oct 2010)

magnatom said:


> I'm not making any judgments just yet, as I have not heard back from the PF office yet. It is possible that it is progressing.
> 
> If no action is taken then I am more than capable of generating some publicity surrounding the incident to highlight the issue.
> 
> ...



A recorded delivery letter to the main man (or woman) at the PF office asking whether this matter is progressing to prosecution and when this might be? If not, then why not, remind them of your video footage.


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## magnatom (18 Oct 2010)

Crankarm said:


> A recorded delivery letter to the main man (or woman) at the PF office asking whether this matter is progressing to prosecution and when this might be? If not, then why not, remind them of your video footage.



I've received a reply from the head office saying that they have chased up the local office, so no need to waste paper!


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## aoj (18 Oct 2010)

[_quote name='magnatom' timestamp='1267447369' post='1134793']
I'm still a bit shaken. This morning I was entering a roundabout at about 15 mph. Nothing else was on the roundabout at the time. I am going straight on. On the next entrance to the roundabout a HGV (oil tanker) is approaching.* We make eye contact and he starts slowing.* The next thing I know he is entering the roundabout and he is turning right (cutting straight across me). I can't go ahead of him, I can't go behind him. I brake hard, and my back wheel looses grip (sub zero this morning). I manage to stay upright (thank God!) and stop just short of him. He continues to tun and due to his size his rear wheels get closer and closer to me. The pass less than 20cm from me and my bike. He disappears off leaving me stood in the middle of the roundabout in complete shock.

When I get to the meeting I was going to they commented that I looked white.

So I'm just having something to eat, I'll be phoning the police (I have the reg but no markings on the tanker) and then I'll get the video up. 

I honestly thought my time was up._


The eye contact thing is very well known by motorcyclists, they look straight at you and pull out! Having ridden a motorbike for thirty odd years and once did the flying through the air thing when a motorist pulled out while looking me in the eye. ( I've now seen the light and bicycle more mile miles than motorcycle now.) When riding a motorcycle you assume they have not seen you, I do the same with the bicycle and stop if necessary though I do very little cycling in traffic.

I have two loud horns fitted to my motorcycle and almost always give an emerging driver a toot then a wave. If they didn't see me they now know I'm there, if they did the wave is to say " Sorry if you did see me but i did it just in case". It seem to work ok



Maybe it is time for an Airzound and always assume they did not see you. 

http://www.airzound.co.uk/


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## downfader (18 Oct 2010)

magnatom said:


> I've received a reply from the head office saying that they have chased up the local office, so no need to waste paper!




Could be any number of reasons as to why its taking so long. I do hope theres nothing more serious that they are also compiling a CPS case on... I also hope its not a case of them dropping it, if they do tell you that ask the CTC for help (if you're a member) in going to the press. You could get that on national TV with a bit of strategy.


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## magnatom (18 Oct 2010)

downfader said:


> Could be any number of reasons as to why its taking so long. I do hope theres nothing more serious that they are also compiling a CPS case on... I also hope its not a case of them dropping it, if they do tell you that ask the CTC for help (if you're a member) in going to the press. You could get that on national TV with a bit of strategy.



Aye, it is possible that there may be legitimate reasons for the delay, it just be nice if they could get back to me within their own guideline timeframes! 

The CTC would certainly be one of my ports of calls. Of course with my previous stardom, I have a few media contacts of my own....daaahhling!


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2010)

UPDATE:

I eventually managed to get a response from the Procurator Fiscals office, by phoning them. No e-mail reply to my 1st September request for details on the incident despite chasing it up multiple times.

'No note of the incident on our records!' 

I'm on the phone to the police now. Apparently have to talk to one of the officers and they aren't in at the moment. If they have mucked this up or mucked me about I am going to be fuming!


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## Riding in Circles (19 Nov 2010)

I had a tipper truck do exactly the same to me this morning.


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2010)

Both officers involved have moved offices now. PC L*** who was the one who took my statement and made various comments about how cyclists can be difficult to see (grrrr) is now in CID! However, I apparently need to contact them. Officer D******* isn't in until 4pm on Tuesday (when I should be getting close to London on a train). But I'll be phoning him.

If they have mucked this up I am going to be sure that a major complaint will be going in!


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## Riding in Circles (19 Nov 2010)

magnatom said:


> 4pm on Tuesday (when I should be getting close to London on a train).



Unlikely, I have had you added to the terror watch list.


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## ComedyPilot (19 Nov 2010)

magnatom said:


> Both officers involved have moved offices now. PC L*** who was the one who took my statement and made various comments about how cyclists can be difficult to see (grrrr) is now in CID! However, I apparently need to contact them. Officer D******* isn't in until 4pm on Tuesday (when I should be getting close to London on a train). But I'll be phoning him.
> 
> *If they have mucked this up I am going to be sure that a major complaint will be going in!*



I don't know if Scotland is the same as England but it could be statute barred after 6 months. I think that is if the accused has been notified of an intention of possible prosecution, then the case has to be heard at court within 6 months.

You have all the evidence for a valid complaint - do it.


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## Coco (19 Nov 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> Unlikely, I have had you added to the terror watch list.






Unrelated


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## Jezston (19 Nov 2010)

Threaten to go the IPCC. If that doesn't get them moving, actually go to the IPCC.


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## BentMikey (19 Nov 2010)

That is disappointing, Magnatom. Got my fingers crossed for you.


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## Bollo (19 Nov 2010)

Very sorry to hear this maggers, but unfortunately not surprised. Good luck chasing it up.


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2010)

Thanks guys. The police still have my USB! I bet someone is using it for their own files now! 

There has been incompetence from start to finish, the police and the Procurator Fiscal. I'll complaining to both. 

The good thing is I have this thread and some PM's as well as some written documentary evidence of what has happened throughout this. I'll just need to get the facts from the police and take it from there. 

The worst thing is the guy driving that tanker is getting away scot free and will likely still be driving poorly.


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## ttcycle (19 Nov 2010)

Jesus Mags, Im sorry to hear about this, it sounded so postive - i hope the complaints move things on a bit but it's ridiculous.

You're in London you say....?


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2010)

ttcycle said:


> Jesus Mags, Im sorry to hear about this, it sounded so postive - i hope the complaints move things on a bit but it's ridiculous.
> 
> You're in London you say....?



Aye I'm popping down next week. Is a research council business plan competition , so I'm heading down Tuesday and coming back Wednesday. 

The problem is that I am down with a couple of other folk, so I'm not sure I'll be able to meet up with anyone when down. I'll PM you later....


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## HLaB (19 Nov 2010)

Bollo said:


> Very sorry to hear this maggers, but unfortunately not surprised. Good luck chasing it up.



ditto :-(


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## BSRU (19 Nov 2010)

After all this time, it is a bit of a slap in the face from whoever has not been doing their job diligently.


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## As Easy As Riding A Bike (19 Nov 2010)

magnatom said:


> Both officers involved have moved offices now. PC L*** who was the one who took my statement and made various comments about how cyclists can be difficult to see (grrrr) is now in CID!



Maybe this is a sweeping generalization, but I suspect that only someone who can't really be arsed to investigate would make a comment like that. Certainly if he had seen the video, and then said that, I'm not massively surprised that the case has vanished into thin air. It reeks of an attitude of "oh well, these things happen, and you cyclists really need to be more careful."

My sympathies, Magnatom. Hope your persistence pays off.


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## ComedyPilot (19 Nov 2010)

The sad thing is that they had all the evidence on a plate (well, Mag's USB) ready to go. 

Simple interview. 

Are you so and so?, do you work for so and so, do you drive a lorry, were you..etc................is this you? 

Signed, sealed, delivered, bish, bash bosh. 

An absolute traffic offence, as easy as they come.

A complaint is deserved IF they have failed to act. We won't know till Tuesday when Mags rings them though. Fingers crossed, cos driving like that's going to kill someone.


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2010)

A complaint would definitely be deserved as they told me they were charging him with dangerous driving. 
I'll phone the police office tomorrow and try and speak to the desk sergeant.


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## downfader (19 Nov 2010)

FFS is this still going on? As ComedyPilot said they had it on a plate they should pull their finger out.  If they've definately made a cock up or even just wasted your time and missed an opportunity to deal with this moron then I wonder if the Scots Sun would be interested in the story? Take it to the press!


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## Tynan (20 Nov 2010)

gawd

I remeber tha vid as clear as first view, utterly shocking

good luck


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

OK. Here we go......

I managed to talk to one of the officers who was dealing with the case today. When I mentioned the oil tanker etc he remembered the case and could confirm that he had sent it to the procurator fiscal (PF). He was able to provide me with a crime reference number (the one I had before was wrong for some reason.

So I have now just got off the phone to the PF office. With these details they could find the case (but not by my name, address or the date of the incident?!?). 

The prosecution will not be taken forward due to.....now get this.....


INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE.     

So, my helmet camera footage clearly showing the oil tanker pulling out in front of me and coming within cms of taking my life provided insufficient evidence. (I'll repost the video shortly). Rest assured I will be taking this matter further. Do you think it is worth talking to the CTC about this?


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## DrSquirrel (1 Dec 2010)

magnatom said:


> Do you think it is worth talking to the CTC about this?



Yes, not just on the basis that this is a crazy decision.. but to try and fight this shitty argument we get even when faced with video evidence.


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Who is the right person to speak to in the CTC?


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## Origamist (1 Dec 2010)

Try Roger Geffen at the CTC: 

roger.geffen*at*ctc.org.uk

Keep pursuing this, Mags.

Why not ask the cycling lawyer his advice?

Good luck.


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## gaz (1 Dec 2010)

Good luck and keep us posted.
Appalling out come at present which doesn't fair well for any o us that use cameras!


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Origamist said:


> Try Roger Geffen at the CTC:
> 
> roger.geffen*at*ctc.org.uk
> 
> ...



Origamist. Yes indeed I think chatting to Martin would be helpful, although this will be under Scottish Law. However, I'm sure his advice would be helpful.

Rest assured, I will pursue this vigorously. I need to be sure I take the correct approach though.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Dec 2010)

Jesus. H. Christ.

Insufficient evidence? Insufficient brains on the part of whoever is supposed to be dealing with this, me thinks!


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## Bollo (1 Dec 2010)

I hate to quote myself (cycle lawyer thread) but it seems prescient.....



Bollo said:


> ....Utterly my own opinion but I sometimes wonder whether each organisation uses the other as the foil for 'plausible denial'...
> 
> Police - "We won't pursue a case because the CPS would throw it out"
> CPS - "We don't have the evidence from the police investigation to pursue a prosecution"


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## Bollo (1 Dec 2010)

Forgot to add - good luck with following this up.


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## Camgreen (1 Dec 2010)

Absolutely disgraceful decision Magnatom, definitely don't let the matter drop. My view would also be to not re-post the video clip though ... leastways not yet; don't let the powers that be have the excuse of saying you've prejudiced any fair hearing for the tanker driver by making the clip public again.


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## adscrim (1 Dec 2010)

Have a look here- This chap is a QC trying to get the CPS to prosecute for a threat to kill. It make maddening reading but the sad bit, for me at least, is that is video evidence and a full knowledge of the law gets you no response, what hope is there for the rest of us.

He may be able to offer you some advice on how to proceed.


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## Camgreen (1 Dec 2010)

I guess the CTC people will have the best idea how to take this forward and who to approach, but how about MSP Stewart Stevenson who has transport as part of his portfolio as a possible first port of call?


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Here is the video 

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqACT1jNV0[/media]


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

adscrim said:


> Have a look here- This chap is a QC trying to get the CPS to prosecute for a threat to kill. It make maddening reading but the sad bit, for me at least, is that is video evidence and a full knowledge of the law gets you no response, what hope is there for the rest of us.
> 
> He may be able to offer you some advice on how to proceed.



Aye this is the chap that Origamist was mentioning.


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Camgreen said:


> Absolutely disgraceful decision Magnatom, definitely don't let the matter drop. My view would also be to not re-post the video clip though ... leastways not yet; don't let the powers that be have the excuse of saying you've prejudiced any fair hearing for the tanker driver by making the clip public again.



The PF have made their decision. I don't think there is any appeal process. Anyway, in some ways I am more concerned about the attitude of the PF to this case.


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Actually, so long as the mods and Admin don't mind I'll start a new thread about the outcome. This thread is a bit big. However, this thread is a useful audit trail for me!


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Dec 2010)

Still makes my stomach turn each time I see it!

Someone needs to be taken out and fired if they think that there's not sufficient evidence, clearly they shouldn't be doing the job they are doing.


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## 400bhp (1 Dec 2010)

That's the first time I have seen the video.

The video diesn't lie in this one - that was scary 

I think this a good one to take to the papers.


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## subaqua (1 Dec 2010)

scottish sun would be interested

all the cycling magazines need to get this on their websites. 

as an aside what was the registration number. and surely there must be a company involved, bet they wouldn't like the bad publicity


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## magnatom (1 Dec 2010)

Guys, 

Can you post on the outcome thread. This one is too big.


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## Sh4rkyBloke (1 Dec 2010)

Maybe ask Shaun/Mods to lock this thread with a linky to the new one for people coming in here.


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