# Dog attack.



## sittingbull (2 Aug 2012)

I met a friend earlier and he was on crutches. It turns out that last week a "pit bull type dog" dragged him from his bike and then set about savaging his lower leg. He's a big strong bloke and repeatedly punched the dog's head but it was locked onto his leg. Somehow this ended and he spent 5 days in hospital and had 2 operations, including a skin graft. He is in some discomfort but should be OK once his wounds have healed.

This got me thinking, cyclists get chased by dogs from time to time and I've had the odd nip. If I can, I try to put a bit of distance between myself and the dog. Sometimes stopping will make them lose interest because the chase is over. How could you defend yourself against an aggressive dog? Hitting it with a pump would be futile. Trying to kick it would be like feeding it another leg. Are there any legal sprays that work? Startle it with an AirZound?

The dog in this incident has been impounded by the Police and I should think it's fate is certain.


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## TheJDog (2 Aug 2012)

Richard's Bicycle Book recommended putting your bike in between you and the dog. I would say hit the dog with the bike would be more effective than hitting it with a pump.


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## Accy cyclist (3 Aug 2012)

Having to unclip the old spd'd foot and leg to use as a lance is becoming quite a habit around my town's park where i do some laps. Not so much devil dogs(though i have posted about being attacked in the past) but stupid owners who throw balls in the road for their dogs to chase because "there are no cars about", but knowing that i'm about yet disregarding me as insignificant.


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## CopperCyclist (3 Aug 2012)

sittingbull said:


> Are there any legal sprays that work? Startle it with an AirZound?
> 
> The dog in this incident has been impounded by the Police and I should think it's fate is certain.



There are legal sprays - I think the website is www.bite-back.net but too lazy to check! The spray is definitely called Bite Back.

It's a difficult one as its a horrible situation to be in. Personally I wouldn't worry enough to carry a spray, but then Ive never been attacked, or chased - my views may change if I was.


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## Stonepark (3 Aug 2012)

U
nfortuneatey for the answer for a dog where the red midt has come down is to kill it, your life is at risk and you are allowed to defend yourself any way you see fit.


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## Maylian (3 Aug 2012)

I assume going at the eye's in a vicious attack from a dog would be fairly effective.


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## IanT (3 Aug 2012)

At about the 90 mile point on my first imperial century last Sunday, I came across a large and quite agitated German Shepherd. This was in the middle of a thunderstorm - which I guess had freaked it out a little more.

There was no way that I was doubling back this close to the ton so I just kept my cool and rode past - very very slowly. It took some nerve - especially as it ran towards me. Fortunately, a car coming in the other direction drew it's attention - allowing me to Foxtrot Oscar pretty sharpish.

May have been a different story if it had been a psychotic pit bull - but I do think that holding your nerve, staying calm and not giving it anything to chase is the best policy.


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## Boris Bajic (3 Aug 2012)

Raise the hand, palm forwards, as if making a STOP gesture.

Stand straight and still apart from the hand, which can be raised slightly as you speak.

In an authoritative voice say "Sit!"

I saw this on the television in my youth. It works every time. The dog will be as putty in your hands. 

The woman who demonstrated it was the mother of the writer W Somerset Maugham. 

If not, then probably.

I hope this has helped.

But I fear it may not have....


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## ColinJ (3 Aug 2012)

Maylian said:


> I assume going at the eye's in a vicious attack from a dog would be fairly effective.


Somebody told me that certain powerful dogs (including Pit Bull types) have a kind of ratchet mechanism in their jaws which locks the jaws shut unless they decide to unlock them! You would think that having your eyes gouged would put you off, but it would not surprise me if a Pit Bull would 'bite to the death'!

Many years ago, before the Pit Bull ban came in, I saw a pair of them chained up outside Spar in Hebden Bridge. At the time, I did not know what breed they were, but they looked so intimidating that I chose to step off the pavement and walk past them on the road. As I drew alongside them, one of the dogs snarled. I looked at him and saw that he had something in his mouth. He bit down hard and blood started to drip out of his gums. There was a sudden loud cracking noise as he finally bit through what turned out to be half a house brick! I thought then that I wouldn't like one of those dogs to take a dislike to me!


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## BSRU (3 Aug 2012)

According to a QI I watched recently, to release the lock jaws you need to shove something up their anal passage, a pen being the preferred suggestion although may not be practical.


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## Crankarm (3 Aug 2012)

Vicious dangerous dog breeds such as pitt bulls should be exterminated. There is no need to have them. Period.

If the box jelly fish had legs and could survive on land then I would get one of these to defend myself against vicious dogs. A bjf can sting 30 times quicker than a death adder which is the snake with the fastest bite reflex.


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## compo (3 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Raise the hand, palm forwards, as if making a STOP gesture.
> 
> Stand straight and still apart from the hand, which can be raised slightly as you speak.
> 
> ...


 
I wonder if this lot tried that:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19097338


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## Maylian (3 Aug 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Somebody told me that certain powerful dogs (including Pit Bull types) have a kind of ratchet mechanism in their jaws which locks the jaws shut unless they decide to unlock them! You would think that having your eyes gouged would put you off, but it would not surprise me if a Pit Bull would 'bite to the death'!
> 
> Many years ago, before the Pit Bull ban came in, I saw a pair of them chained up outside Spar in Hebden Bridge. At the time, I did not know what breed they were, but they looked so intimidating that I chose to step off the pavement and walk past them on the road. As I drew alongside them, one of the dogs snarled. I looked at him and saw that he had something in his mouth. He bit down hard and blood started to drip out of his gums. There was a sudden loud cracking noise as he finally bit through what turned out to be half a house brick! I thought then that I wouldn't like one of those dogs to take a dislike to me!


 


I had heard about the locking jaw, but biting through a brick is just insane! I am still a big believer of the Croc Dundee method, with most dogs that look intimidating I stare down but never had to contend with being on a bike as well.

I was once cycling through a park and a Great Dane was just bounding along keeping pace with me for fun, I realised that I would probably not be able to out drag it should the need arise. Pretty sure I could out pace a pitbull but again never had to try.


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## Cyclopathic (3 Aug 2012)

[QUOTE 1964768, member: 45"]His original book talked about more than just defending yourself...[/quote]
I've got that. I think we spoke about it before and it really does have some very forthright advice about dealing with dogs. It was a laugh out loud moment for me when I read it and I'm very glad to have the original version.
I think trying to keep the bike between you and the dog is a good plan if at all possible but if the little bugger has already clamped it'self on then I might try his other advice which was to go for the testicles if it has them.


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## Cyclopathic (3 Aug 2012)

BSRU said:


> According to a QI I watched recently, to release the lock jaws you need to shove something up their anal passage, a pen being the preferred suggestion although may not be practical.


Thus turning the dog into the worlds most dangerous gonk..."Nah mate it's alright, you can keep the pen."


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## pubrunner (3 Aug 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Vicious dangerous dog breeds such as pitt bulls should be exterminated.


 
That's a typical knee-jerk reaction; wouldn't it be better to exterminate the irresponsible owners ? 



Crankarm said:


> There is no *need* to have them. Period.
> 
> .


 
There's no 'need' to have a car that'll do more than 70mph; but people demand them

There's no 'need' in my mind, for my missus to have 20+ pairs of shoes; she assures me that the need is there.  

By the same token, do I really 'need' to have 6 bikes ?


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## Rob3rt (3 Aug 2012)

There are ways I imagine might be useful to get a pitbull off, but non I can think of are particularly useful in this situation and carry other risks.

If you are at home, you could rub something sour in their mouth (risking fingers here I guess) like lime, or stick their head under a COLD tap and scuffing them. Works for ferrets (they also lock their jaw), but might not work for a dog. Scruffing is a funny one, with a ferret, if you scruff them they automatically yawn, never heard or seen the same with a cat or dog.

I'd be inclined to kick and punch the soft bits (torso) rather than the head though if you have too defend with force!


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## Hacienda71 (3 Aug 2012)

Might be an urban myth, but I do recall being told, that pulling a dogs front legs apart can do them serious physical harm. Fortunately I have never been in the situation where I would need to test it.


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## Rob3rt (3 Aug 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> Might be an urban myth, but I do recall being told, that pulling a dogs front legs apart can do them serious physical harm. Fortunately I have never been in the situation where I would need to test it.


 
Also heard that one too.


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Aug 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> Might be an urban myth, but I do recall being told, that pulling a dogs front legs apart can do them serious physical harm. Fortunately I have never been in the situation where I would need to test it.


 
Bleurg! I think it tears their heart or something similarly awful, although there's a lot of muscle in some dogs legs!


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## sabian92 (3 Aug 2012)

Indeed. If you are in the position to, kick it in the stomach. A friend of mine got attacked (on his paper round but not on a bike), and a dog set on him. Kicked it in the stomach a few times and reported it to the police. The dog died before the police could impound it and put it down anyway so while i'm not suggesting you go around killing dogs, might be an idea if it really did come to you or them sort of thing.

I'm a dog lover and while i'd never, ever deliberately hurt a dog, if it was attacking me with the view of trying to kill me then i'd kick shite out of it until it died if i had to.


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## mattobrien (3 Aug 2012)

I always thought that a trigger released CO2 pump / canister might be quite effective. The only issue with that is that I keep that pump on my MTB, in the saddle bag and not primed with the canister screwed into the pump. Other than that, I can't see any problems with that idea. 

Or keep a cat to hand for the dog to chase should the worse happen.


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## TonyEnjoyD (3 Aug 2012)

Ram something up their jacksy apparently works - never tried it ( honestly officer!)

Had a bloke ask me once, "what's you're pet hate?"
"having things rammed up its ar$e" I replied so it must be true

Also dig in and squeeze hard just in front of their pelvis but remember to pull you hand away before they chomp on it.


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## stewie griffin (3 Aug 2012)

The first thing I do when approaching a dog loose in the road (I'm in Spain, more of em!!) or when I hear one coming down a drive in pursuit is to grab my bidon open it with my teeth as usual & keep it in my hand, as soon as they are close enough a big squeeze aiming at their face does the trick, as yet it hasn't failed to stop em, it seems to shock them & they don't continue.
The worst part is loosing precious water, better than being bitten though.
Apparently if you want something specially for dog deterrent a small amount of washing up liquid in the water really stops them, dogs being much more sensitive to smells & taste than we are find that very unpleasant.
Don't drink the washing up liquid bidon though


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## on the road (3 Aug 2012)

Boris Bajic said:


> Raise the hand, palm forwards, as if making a STOP gesture.
> 
> Stand straight and still apart from the hand, which can be raised slightly as you speak.
> 
> ...


That's assuming the dog has been trained.


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## DRHysted (3 Aug 2012)

stewie griffin said:


> The first thing I do when approaching a dog loose in the road (I'm in Spain, more of em!!) or when I hear one coming down a drive in pursuit is to grab my bidon open it with my teeth as usual & keep it in my hand, as soon as they are close enough a big squeeze aiming at their face does the trick, as yet it hasn't failed to stop em, it seems to shock them & they don't continue.
> The worst part is loosing precious water, better than being bitten though.
> Apparently if you want something specially for dog deterrent a small amount of washing up liquid in the water really stops them, dogs being much more sensitive to smells & taste than we are find that very unpleasant.
> Don't drink the washing up liquid bidon though


 
That is probably the best suggestion, one of the training aids we have here (we take in the occasional dog with major problems and re-train them) is a 2 litre coke bottle with a trigger which squirts the contents (water) under pressure. Stops most unwanted behaviour.

Oh QI said to use your finger, a technique I'm yet to use, but with all the dogs we've had in only one has actually summoned the guts to bite me (I've been told I give off an aggressive aura which probably helps my alpha male status).


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## DRHysted (3 Aug 2012)

on the road said:


> That's assuming the dog has been trained.


 
Actually if you give the right attitude behind the command the dog doesn't need to be trained.

Swear words tend to have a very good responce, as you can get strong emotions into them. 
It's not what you say but how you say it, I've even had good results from "cabbages" (try it and see how nastily you can say it)!


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> There are legal sprays - I think the website is www.bite-back.net but too lazy to check! The spray is definitely called Bite Back.


Bite Back looks effective on their video. I wonder how well it compares to pepper spray which (according to Wikipedia) is used for defence against dogs and bears. However pepper spray appears to be classed as an offensive weapon in the UK and is illegal.


BSRU said:


> According to a QI I watched recently, to release the lock jaws you need to shove something up their anal passage, a pen being the preferred suggestion although may not be practical.


This appears to be a recurring theme, somebody somewhere must have tried it


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## Crankarm (4 Aug 2012)

pubrunner said:


> That's a typical knee-jerk reaction; wouldn't it be better to exterminate the irresponsible owners ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
You must be a pitt bull owner or have a similarly vicious and agressive dog?


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## boybiker (4 Aug 2012)

Every good cyclist scared of dogs biting them (like myself!) carry's a few dog treats in their back pockets. Throw a dog treat one way and cycle as fast as you can the other way and you will be fine.


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

mattobrien said:


> Or keep a cat to hand for the dog to chase should the worse happen


........a bit like deploying chaff then? 


stewie griffin said:


> .........grab my bidon open it with my teeth as usual & keep it in my hand, as soon as they are close enough a big squeeze aiming at their face does the trick.........


As DRHysted suggests, this, if effective, is probably the most practical option. Not sure it would be effective if the dog was already locked on though.

The bloke who was the hurt by the "pit bull" is a dog lover and doesn't blame the dog. He told me that with a different owner the incident would probably not have happened. The owner is apparently irresponsible (not just as a dog owner).

Someone I was out cycling with yesterday suggested the owner should be taken to Chester Zoo and thrown into the cages with the animals, I'm inclined to agree.


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

mattobrien said:


> I always thought that a trigger released CO2 pump / canister might be quite effective. The only issue with that is that I keep that pump on my MTB, in the saddle bag and not primed with the canister screwed into the pump. Other than that, I can't see any problems with that idea.
> 
> Or keep a cat to hand for the dog to chase should the worse happen.


I saw a 'Cops with Cameras' episode (UK version) where they used a CO2 fire extinguisher to push back a dangerous dog whilst they attempting to conduct a drugs bust.
It worked really effectively against the dog, so providing you can discharge it then you shouldn't have any problems. Only down fall I can see, is how much you would need to use and if the wind is blowing etc.


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

Strange you should mention a fire extinguisher. I had been thinking about a small one I used to keep in the car.

It would fit in a bottle cage but there is no way I would consider carrying it around, it's simply too heavy.

Fortunately dog attacks of this severity are (I presume) pretty rare, but it's useful to know what you could do.


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

sittingbull said:


> Strange you should mention a fire extinguisher. I had been thinking about a small one I used to keep in the car.
> 
> It would fit in a bottle cage but there is no way I would consider carrying it around, it's simply too heavy.
> 
> Fortunately dog attacks of this severity are (I presume) pretty rare, but it's useful to know what you could do.


 
Hmm, what about those air dusters you can get? It would certainly be lighter then a fire extinguisher.


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

Octet said:


> Hmm, what about those air dusters you can get? It would certainly be lighter then a fire extinguisher.


You mean those aerosols for getting the dust out of a keyboard? - I've never tried one so don't know how "powerful" they are. I suspect they would have a very short useful range.


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

Not sure how powerful they are, I think you can get bigger ones for more heavy duty stuff... but as you say, distance may be an issue.


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## Cubist (4 Aug 2012)

Bite-back is extremely effective, and is harmless to humans. In fact it smells wonderful, a sort of clove and mint smell. We have bite-back issued in our division. Dogs absolutely hate it. 

We used to take the halon fire-extinguishers with us when we busted anywhere where we expected a dog. One quick squirt absolutely terrifies them. I remember one particular 'orrible dog that rushed us as we put the door in. It got a quick squirt and ran behind the tv where its dickhead owner spent the rest of the time we were there swearing at it for being "f*cking useless"


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## DRHysted (4 Aug 2012)

sittingbull said:


> Strange you should mention a fire extinguisher. I had been thinking about a small one I used to keep in the car.
> 
> It would fit in a bottle cage but there is no way I would consider carrying it around, it's simply too heavy.
> 
> Fortunately dog attacks of this severity are (I presume) pretty rare, but it's useful to know what you could do.


 
I think you'll find that the small extinguishers fitted in cars are powder types, which if I remember correctly are a one use item, also I think the powder may cause harm to the dog (ideally it's best if the animal just assosiates a bike with a bad experiance).
Of all the ideas I think I'd go with water from a bottle, cheap, (normally) effective, something most carry, and reuseable.


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

DRHysted said:


> I think you'll find that the small extinguishers fitted in cars are powder types, which if I remember correctly are a one use item, also I think the powder may cause harm to the dog (ideally it's best if the animal just assosiates a bike with a bad experiance).
> Of all the ideas I think I'd go with water from a bottle, cheap, (normally) effective, something most carry, and reuseable.


 
I think you might be right about the car extinguishers, CO2 usually come in 2 KG +, and cost about £70 so not exactly a cheap solution...
The water bottle idea is good though, not sure whether it would cause them to retreat or aggravate them further?


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

DRHysted said:


> .........ideally it's best if the animal just assosiates a bike with a bad experiance).


The bloke I cycled with yesteday says he slows down if the dog can't keep up the chase, then speeds up and repeats this. The owner gets frantic when the dog has run up to a mile away and the dog gets a rollicking on it's return.


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## Cubist (4 Aug 2012)

DRHysted said:


> I think you'll find that the small extinguishers fitted in cars are powder types, which if I remember correctly are a one use item, also I think the powder may cause harm to the dog (ideally it's best if the animal just assosiates a bike with a bad experiance).
> Of all the ideas I think I'd go with water from a bottle, cheap, (normally) effective, something most carry, and reuseable.


The ones we had in the cars were the buff coloured Halon ones. Not powder, and not single use. Don't know if they're available to the public though.

Edit: No they were banned in the UK in 2003.


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## DRHysted (4 Aug 2012)

Octet said:


> The water bottle idea is good though, not sure whether it would cause them to retreat or aggravate them further?


 
To date the water sprayer has not aggravated any dogs here. Over the years we have only had to put three dogs down due to their behaviour.


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

Cubist said:


> The ones we had in the cars were the buff coloured Halon ones. Not powder, and not single use. Don't know if they're available to the public though.
> 
> Edit: No they were banned in the UK in 2003.


 
I think Halon are banned almost everywhere now, except for the military but everywhere else they have either switched to CO2 or in Airports, they use High Expansion Foam (giant bubble bath).


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

Cubist said:


> Bite-back is extremely effective, and is harmless to humans. In fact it smells wonderful, a sort of clove and mint smell. We have bite-back issued in our division. Dogs absolutely hate it.


Ok you've convinced me, I would happily carry a 50 ml can - trouble is it appears from the web-site that they have to be ordered in cases of 24 units at a cost of £289.20 (plus Vat).


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## Cubist (4 Aug 2012)

Octet said:


> I think Halon are banned almost everywhere now, you might be able to get them in some specialised places like a foundry where you need something which can starve a large area of oxygen in such a quick time but everywhere else they have either switched to CO2 or in Airports, they use High Expansion Foam (giant bubble bath).


Yep. The UK finally implemented a ban that was first proposed in Montreal in 1987, in 2003. Gotta just love those Ozones.


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## Cubist (4 Aug 2012)

sittingbull said:


> Ok you've convinced me, I would happily carry a 50 ml can - trouble is it appears from the web-site that they have to be ordered in cases of 24 units at a cost of £289.20 (plus Vat).


What you need to do is start a thread asking for other dog-fearing folk to club together and get a case between you......


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## sittingbull (4 Aug 2012)

It also appears to have a 12 month shelf life.


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## Accy cyclist (4 Aug 2012)

We need a dog repellent spray, in case we end up like....
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ-4jCS9ky8


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## Andrew_Culture (4 Aug 2012)

Octet said:


> Hmm, what about those air dusters you can get? It would certainly be lighter then a fire extinguisher.



But would spray the dog with liquid butane!


__________________________________________________________________________________
Sent from my bowels


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> But would spray the dog with liquid butane!
> Sent from my bowels


 
Only if you hold it upside down, I think?


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## Andrew_Culture (4 Aug 2012)

You have to hold those cans perfectly upright or butane comes out. I caused a helluva fireball once and the can was only at about 20o off upright!


__________________________________________________________________________________
Sent from my bowels


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## Octet (4 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> You have to hold those cans perfectly upright or butane comes out. I caused a helluva fireball once and the can was only at about 20o off upright!


 
Hehe, Youtube is full of videos doing the same sort of thing... I can't say I would condone it though :P


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## Andrew_Culture (4 Aug 2012)

It was an accident! Honest!


__________________________________________________________________________________
Sent from my bowels


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## Gary E (4 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> It was an accident! Honest!
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________________
> Sent from my bowels


Yeah but on the plus side- a flame thrower would definitely give the dog something to think about


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## soulful dog (4 Aug 2012)

Commiserations to your friend sittingbull, that must have been nasty and really scary.

Bite back spray isn't any good because as you've already discovered, it's not readily available. You can buy them individually from police-supplies.co.uk, but it states "Conditions of sale restricted to Police, Emergency Services, County Councils, Animal Welfare Officers, the Royal Mail, Utility Workers, Veterinary Practitioners and Bailiffs"

Best thing to do is stop and put the bike between you and the dog, stand tall and bellow at it to stop. If it's a real concern for you, try as stewie suggests, keep an extra water bottle handy and add some washing up liquid to it, then squirt that at them.

I like dogs, but am wary of ones like staffies because of the damage they can do if they do bite you. I know a couple of people who have had to get their dogs PTS after being attacked, one by a staffie, the other by a bull terrier. Incidentally, although I've worked as a both a postie and a meter reader, I've never once been bitten or attacked by a dog. A cat once caught me a cracker as I was putting mail through a door, cats - the silent assassin!


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## CopperCyclist (4 Aug 2012)

soulful dog said:


> Bite back spray isn't any good because as you've already discovered, it's not readily available. You can buy them individually from police-supplies.co.uk, but it states "Conditions of sale restricted to Police, Emergency Services, County Councils, Animal Welfare Officers, the Royal Mail, Utility Workers, Veterinary Practitioners and Bailiffs"



http://www.vonwolf.co.uk/shop/product.php/10

They seem to sell it individually with no restrictions? I haven't tried the full purchase, as don't want any but went up o the point of payment on their website without too many problems.

I would find it strange if the sale is restricted to official capacities only, as it's nothing illegal - and Cubist said earlier, spray it at a human and it's vaguely pleasant!

I've seen it used once effectively, aiding a quick escape from the compound that a 'dangerous dog' was in, allowing the officers to kit up with snaffles etc to go back and get it.


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## stewie griffin (4 Aug 2012)

On my regular local route I go along a bit of dirt track with house/gardens each side, some time ago a dog that looked like a pointer type hunting dog was in the track, sure enough as I passed it started running after me, I don't think it was really intent on biting, it probably thought it was fun but I wasn't going to wait & find out, a squirt from my bidon (that I had ready) stopped it.
A little while later the same dog moved back a little as I went past, again I had my bidon ready but didn't need it, some dogs are smart & I don't feel bad making one wary of cyclists.
I also have dogs & would never want to harm one. If you don't think you have a good enough aim while cycling you could combine getting off the bike, using the bike as a shield while spraying the dog with your bidon, you can probably distance yourself by walking if the dog hasn't already retreated.


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## Raging Squirrel (4 Aug 2012)

just remember that it's usually the dog's owner that is at fault and not the dog itself. If the owner has raised the dog to be aggressive, then that's how it'll be. Dogs are taught to be aggressive, they don't suddenly decide to be like that. Pit bull type dogs have a bad stigma around them. The same as Staffordshire Bull Terriers, which by the way are 1 of only 2 "safe" dogs around children. All these instances of vicious Staffies are because some dickhead thinks it's funny to have a dog for defensive reasons and will teach it to get agitated.

I'm sure only English Putbull's "lock on" as they have a mechanism in their jaw, other dogs are just too strong to make let go. The best way to deal with it if it's clamped onto your leg is to grab it's collar (if it is wearing one) and twist it as hard as you can, basically choking the dog and it will automatically release, and then you just try your hardest to keep hold of it til the owner or someone passing by can stop and help.


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## Raging Squirrel (4 Aug 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> Might be an urban myth, but I do recall being told, that pulling a dogs front legs apart can do them serious physical harm. Fortunately I have never been in the situation where I would need to test it.


 
the force needed to try this would be in excess of what you'd be able to achieve with a pitbull chomping your limb down, not to mention it'd agitate the dog further and make it bite down harder


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## sidevalve (4 Aug 2012)

FWIW the idea of pulling the dogs legs apart is dangerous cack. Just try holding the legs of some friendly pooch sometime and see where your throat is relative to it's teeth if you need proof. If it's on your leg you MAY be able to get a grip but these types are VERY strong and you will be losing blood fast. Secondly if the dog IS a pitbull then as a breed they are used to withstanding pain and have massive protective musclemass around the throat and neck area. The teeth are designed to HOLD the prey so DO NOT try to pull away if they clamp on. Beating at the beast will only make it wilder and that includes the owner [if for any reason they try to help].
If you are in terminal danger the main vulnerable spot is probably the femural artery [inside the thigh].
As said the best tactic,assuming you can't just ride off into traffic, is probably to dismount [and remove the chase element, which will solve the problem 99% of the time] stand behind the bike and try the NO [or similar command. Spraying with whatever is fine IF you have it to hand but sods law says on the day you need it you wont. If non of this works you have a very dangerous dog which is either mad or has been trained to be agresive towards people [not a dogs normal prey].


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## Cush (4 Aug 2012)

A postman was always been bothered by a dog, so his mate told him to carry a pepper pot and when the dog came at him to shake the pepper over the dog, so the postie borrowed a pepper pot from the canteen and when he got got he was asked how it had worked and could the canteen have the pot back? Well it had worked all right but what had happened was that when the dog came at him the postie forgott about sprinkling the pepper and instead threw the pot at the dog hitting it right on the nose , the dog turned around and fled but the pepper pot broke.


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## sittingbull (5 Aug 2012)

Cubist said:


> I remember one particular 'orrible dog that rushed us as we put the door in.


I found out today that the dog's owner has (allegedly) had to replace his front door several times........


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## Cubist (5 Aug 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> http://www.vonwolf.co.uk/shop/product.php/10
> 
> They seem to sell it individually with no restrictions? I haven't tried the full purchase, as don't want any but went up o the point of payment on their website without too many problems.
> 
> ...


Good find. I read a lot of threads from folk genuinely worried about dog attack, so that would be £17.50 well spent I'd imagine. 

I can never resist a funny cop anecdote. Personnel carriers are often an environment for silliness, and a mate of mine was telling the boys and girls in the van how nice Biteback is, and how it's harmless to humans. Someone expressed doubt and so my mate volunteered to show them how being sprayed in the face was quite a benign experience. The lad holding the Biteback took him at his word and sprayed directly into his eyes from about a foot away. Paul tells me it was absolute agony for about an hour afterwards.


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## sittingbull (8 Oct 2012)

Well, after 2 1/2 months since my friend's lower leg was re-arranged by the dog, he's still having his dressings changed but is only using one crutch to walk 

Today I saw him out on his bike He was going very gingerley (less than 5 mph), it was only his 3rd ride but it's a "step" in the right direction.


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## RWright (9 Oct 2012)

Good to hear he is out riding again but terrible what happened to him.

I had a pit bull come running across its yard after me one day. I got off my bike and kept the bike between myself and the dog on the opposite side of the road. The dog was barking and causing a fuss but the look in its eyes did not really make me fear for my life. It looked more like a dog that had been penned up for a while and was out and didn't really know what else to do. I did not feel a real sense of panic.

A girl (a cashier I recognized from my local grocery store) that had just passed by me in her SUV, saw what was happening, backed up and asked if I wanted her to stay between the dog and myself until I could get away. We did that until I got to a corner and could take off down a hill. The dog didn't come after me when she was moving her truck between us. Now every time I see her in the grocery store I thank her for saving my life. 

I have not picked up any pepper spray yet but it is next item on the list. Pepper spray is legal here, works on humans too.


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## Chris S (9 Oct 2012)

Hacienda71 said:


> Might be an urban myth, but I do recall being told, that pulling a dogs front legs apart can do them serious physical harm. Fortunately I have never been in the situation where I would need to test it.


 
I'm sure I saw something like that in a 1970's action movie - possibly James Bond.


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## Dajoker188 (9 Oct 2012)

I have had problems with dog owners in the past. Some seem to have no consideration for the general public when out with their dogs. My last encounter occurred in a local park where a group of elderly dog owners had come together and let 15+ dogs off their leads. The dogs were spread across the park effectively blocking the way to a cycle trail i was heading to, but i had no choice but to press forward whilst keeping my distance. All the dogs immediate ran towards me barking and snarling, i stayed on my bike and moved at a steady pace in order to avoid running one over. The dogs were fairly small but were able land bites to my ankle, but with the exception of a few scratches i was fine because i kept moving and never got off my bike.The irony is if i had sped up and ended up harming one of these dogs then i would be the one in trouble with the police.

I think something has to be done about this if a group of teens were in the same park intimating people then these same elderly dog walkers would probably call the police however since dogs are concerned does this make it OK? The public should be free to use parks and walk ways without fear of dog attacks.


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## RWright (9 Oct 2012)

Chris S said:


> I'm sure I saw something like that in a 1970's action movie - possibly James Bond.


 
I don't think I want to try that. Puts your neck too close to the mouth of a big dog. I think a larger person can try to get their hands around a dogs neck or collar and get on top of them and keep them off their feet, at least I saw that done on tv, for whatever that is worth. I am not sure what is the best way to fight off a dog.

I once in a while read of people in the country getting attacked and killed by a pack of dogs. Would be a tough way to go.


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## suffolkcindy (10 Oct 2012)

Hmm all this macho talk of wrestling dogs is theory. In practise you dont stand a chance once kill mode is activated and if youve ever tried shoving anything up a dogs arse i think youll know it tends to make them more aggressive  
I find (so far) the only escape is to avoid hostilities escalating. Of many different techniques ive used in se asia and europe the only one that worked was shouting and waving my arms about like a big crazy animal  not so useful in cities but paid off in rural cambodia surrounded by feral dogs.
Other cyclists tell me the dog scaring alarms dont work but that stone throwing does. 
Big problem and the one reason i wont ride in turkey...


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## Drago (10 Oct 2012)

The only sure fire way is to disengage and run like ferk, or to kill the dog. Attacking the dog back or expecting itvto wait patiently while you prise it's foreleg apart us unrealistic. Dogs nervous systems don't work like ours - it's not unknown for dogs to be disembowelled and still carry on attacking.

If you don't have a reliable means of killing an attacking dog then clearing off at a rare of knots is the safest bet.


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## Crosstrailer (10 Oct 2012)

Sorry, some incorrect advice on here about taking dogs on. I have personally killed many dogs.

The technique to kill a dog which is attacking you is fairly simple, you just have to click the right stick in when the button indicator flashes up on the screen.

Oh, this is on Call of Duty MW3 BTW


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2012)

Advice given by more than one professional dog handler is to aim for the throat, hitting it as hard as possible. Muscle reflex will mean they have to let go.
Not had cause to try it yet.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Oct 2012)

suffolkcindy said:


> Hmm all this macho talk of wrestling dogs is theory. In practise you dont stand a chance once kill mode is activated ...
> Big problem and the one reason i wont ride in turkey...


You can fight them off, it is possible, but not easy. I know. Back in february this year I was attacked by a pack of 5 dogs in Turkey... I won - I'm still here and starting to get back out on my bike again. It is possible, and I remember almost every minute detail and I agree, the idea of pulling the dogs legs apart is ludicrous. Why in ***l would I want to get my face and arms any closer to something taht is holding onto my leg and calling me 'prey'?


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Oct 2012)

sittingbull said:


> Well, after 2 1/2 months since my friend's lower leg was re-arranged by the dog, he's still having his dressings changed but is only using one crutch to walk
> 
> Today I saw him out on his bike He was going very gingerley (less than 5 mph), it was only his 3rd ride but it's a "step" in the right direction.


 
Hi - I've only just come across this thread. It is interesting if a little alarming as to what people think is and is not going to work. 

I have had 1st hand experience of a pack of 5 dogs attacking myself and my husband back in February of this year. I was left with +100 stitches, a severed major artery, a severed major vein, a severed major nerve and obvious muscle and skin damage. I was left in no doubt that I was fighting for my life and very little of what people have suggested would have worked. For us, stopping is what got us both bitten on this occasion, but in the vast majority of cases, stopping is the best option. 

He is doing better than I did, time wise. I don't know how his wound compares to mine, but it was 14 weeks before I no longer needed dressings on my leg (3 1/2 months) and considered my leg waterproof. Cycling is easier than walking still. I can only really easily walk around 2 miles at the moment (and I used to frequently walk long distance footpaths etc) but yesterday managed at 32 miles bike ride in 2hr 22 mins - an average of around 13.5mph I think. That is almost 8 months on from original incident, details of which can be read here - but warning some of the pictures some people find gory - there's no insides of legs or anything like that, just the stitched outsides... I never spent time in hospital, probably should have had skin grafts, but didn't in the end...

now, it just looks like this, that is my entire left calf from kee to top of boots.... you will need to click on the image to see it larger - I have left it that way on purpose for the squeamish people or those eating at the moment!








This is the type of dog, complete with spiked colar that attacked us, a Kangal, a full grown adult male weighing around 9-12 stone.




Rehab for me started on 7th July when I was able to start cycling again. It has taken since the 7th July to 9th October even to get to the point where I can manage 32 miles again (and I was trying to cycle around the world when it happened.)

Please send him my best wishes. Emma


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## Andy_R (10 Oct 2012)

Dajoker188 said:


> I have had problems with dog owners in the past. Some seem to have no consideration for the general public when out with their dogs. My last encounter occurred in a local park where a group of elderly dog owners had come together and let 15+ dogs off their leads. The dogs were spread across the park effectively blocking the way to a cycle trail i was heading to, but i had no choice but to press forward whilst keeping my distance. All the dogs immediate ran towards me barking and snarling, i stayed on my bike and moved at a steady pace in order to avoid running one over. The dogs were fairly small _*but were able land bites to my ankle, but with the exception of a few scratches i was fine because i kept moving and never got off my bike.The irony is if i had sped up and ended up harming one of these dogs then i would be the one in trouble with the police.*_
> 
> I think something has to be done about this if a group of teens were in the same park intimating people then these same elderly dog walkers would probably call the police however since dogs are concerned does this make it OK? The public should be free to use parks and walk ways without fear of dog attacks.


If you look at the relevant legislation, these dogs were *dangerously out of control. *It doesn't matter about the size of dogs, or breed. Have a look here


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## ayceejay (10 Oct 2012)

I have been bitten by a dog on two occasions, When I was about six I put my head towards a dogs head while saying "Nice doggie, nice doggie" his lower set got me under the chin and the top set got my nose, not a nice doggie at all. The second time I was picking potatoes and my uncles dog was sitting on the empty sacks, I filled one sack and went for another, the dog grasped my wrist so I kicked it, he let go of my wrist and latched on to my ankle, so I punched him. he let go of my ankle and grabbed my wrist again and so on until my uncle saw this dance and yelled/screamed at the top of his voice "HEY" and the dog froze. This is the method I now use when one or two chase me and it works (so far).


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (10 Oct 2012)

User13710 said:


> @SatNavSaysStraightOn I remember your story when this attack first happened. Well done for getting back out there on the bike, I'm glad to hear you're recovering. You're right that when dogs (especially such large ones) are in attack mode there's little you can do except try and escape. That must have been a really horrific experience for you and your husband.


 
Hi
rehab is taking longer than hoped for me, but Stuart is back on his bike, without too many issues, just gets the odd pain now and again from the bite area. I am getting there slowly, averages are coming up very slowly - both speed and distance but I suspect it will be a while before I get to even the metric century and any thoughts of joining the local cycling club are pretty much out - they do between 60-80 miles on a run, so it is mostly a self motivated thing which can be hard, also not knowing anyone in this immediate area does not help.
Mostly it is a case of learning to trust the leg again, and remembering to do the hours physio each day, else 2 days down the line my muscle seizes up and hurts like....

I'm not worried about dogs which is good. I dog sit for a large male irish wolf hound who likes to put my entire forearm into his mouth as a form of begging - he is only 4 years old and has not yet given up on that one. its the little yappy things I don't really like much, but I never did.
thanks for remembering


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## tug benson (10 Oct 2012)

dogs jaws do not lock...they are just strong as ........


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## Accy cyclist (11 Oct 2012)

"
*Out of control dogs*

Report a dangerous dog to your council's dog warden service​*Contact your local dog warden serviceContact your local dog warden service Opens new window*​It is an offence to allow a dog of any type or breed to be dangerously out of control:

in a public place - like a street, park, bus shelter or the common parts of a block of flats (like the entrance or stairs)
in a private place where the dog isn't allowed to be
Public areas also include fields, footpaths and beaches.
*What is 'out of control'?*

Your dog is dangerously out of control if it:

injures a person, or
behaves in a way that makes a person worried it might injure them.....................

So what should i have done last Sunday when i had to stop as one of these horrible monsters was out of control, running all over a street while its equally monsterous owner was too busy checking his mobile phone to care about Tyson's actions? Should i have phoned 999 maybe? The infuriating thing is that the government and the law know that these creatures pose a major threat to people and other animals yet they do bugger all about it!!
Am i supposed to be grateful that Tyson only sniffed my leg and didn't chew it?! Come on "Call me Dave" Cameron! You're supposed to be the party of law and order. Well let's bloody well have some then!!!


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## Licramite (11 Oct 2012)

dogs are tough. lots of muscle - you have to go for balls or eyes
which ever you can stick you thumb into first
if you can get your fist in its mouth, push it down its throat till it chokes to death
but if you think you will encounter dogs, carry a knife.-and use it.

I,m for exterminating the breed and the owners.


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## on the road (11 Oct 2012)

Licramite said:


> dogs are tough. lots of muscle - you have to go for balls or eyes
> which ever you can stick you thumb into first
> *if you can get your fist in its mouth, push it down its throat till it chokes to death*
> but if you think you will encounter dogs, carry a knife.-and use it.
> ...


Which would be impossible, a dog will bite whatever it feels threatened by, so say goodbye to your fist.


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## ayceejay (11 Oct 2012)

Maybe it was karma or something else related to this topic but:
I was out this morning and boy was it fwindy, up ahead I see a woman walking her dog, it on a lead. As I approached the dog went for me from behind the woman's legs, I did my 'Hey!' thing more at the woman than the dog. Anyway I looked back and she had the lead wrapped around her legs cursing as she lay in the road. Then somehow, magically the wind didn't seem so bad.


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## CopperCyclist (12 Oct 2012)

SatNavSaysStraightOn said:


> Hi - I've only just come across this thread. It is interesting if a little alarming as to what people think is and is not going to work.
> 
> I have had 1st hand experience of a pack of 5 dogs attacking myself and my husband back in February of this year.
> 
> ...



That's a horrific story, wishing both you and your husband a full recovery. 

You couldn't have been picked on by a worse breed of dog - the Kangal has the highest measured bite force of any breed of dog - over twice that of a German Shepherd.


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## Licramite (12 Oct 2012)

the other week I was coming back from a ride and a woman was walking her dog by cycling with the dog on the lead - one of those extendable ones.
dog saw me and shot right across her front to get me

by the time I stopped she was in a tangled heap in the hedge.
she was ok so I carried on.

as for the fist down the throat, it was one of ways we were taught in the army - didn,t say you wouldnt come out scragged doing it.
if theres more than one of you , one offers a body part and when the dog grabs it the rest grab the dog.
apparantly the best bit you can offer is your elbow, if the dog grabs that you have most control, you can grapple the dog and still have one hand free.
but your best bet is carry a knife
once in germany a dog bite one of the 15para lads , he pinned it and bite it back (being drunk at the time) poor sod had to come in for the rest of the week for anti-rabies shots - hurt more than the dog bite.


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## Accy cyclist (14 Oct 2012)

Tyson's been stabbed to death! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pet-owner-fight-dog.html?ICO=most_read_module. It sounds like Tyson was a bit of a bully, who pushed his luck too far!


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## lulubel (14 Oct 2012)

Some nasty stories here. I'm glad all those who have experienced dog attacks are on the road to recovery.

I'm lucky because I grew up with dogs, and I can read their moods pretty well. I can also produce a very deep-voiced "no" when a dog is coming towards me that generally stops them. (When I was in my teens/20s, my mother had 2 dogs who tended to fight a lot, and she got bitten once trying to separate them. My grandfather could break up a fight with just his voice, and I'm still totally in awe of that, and try to emulate it.) The very deep, low voice emulates the low growl that a dominant dog uses to warn another off, and it will work with most dogs.

If you come across a dog that's the dominant male in its own right, and isn't going to respond to that, it's better to avoid eye contact (eye contact is seen as a challenge), get off the bike, and walk slowly away, keeping the bike between you and the dog. This is like being the submissive dog. The vast majority of these dominant dogs will be protecting what they see as their territory, and once you leave their territory, they lose interest in you because you're no longer seen as a threat.

As for dogs that are actually attacking .... I hope to never be in that situation, but if it's just one dog, I'd like to think I'd have judged the situation well enough to be on the ground with the bike between me and the dog, so I could use the bike to hold it off as I moved away. If a dog actually got hold of my leg, I like to think I'd have enough self control to play dead and wait for it to lose interest.

Apparently, there is a dog scarer that works. Eileen Sutherland talks about it in her book about cycling from Britain to Bulgaria, and she and her husband call it the "dog dazer". They used it more than once on their trip, and every time they said it confused the dogs long enough for them to ride away safely.


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## Dajoker188 (20 Oct 2012)

I came across this the other day and thought i would share the video. 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUV4JOhtXmc
.A guy goes for a bike ride and this happens. By the way check out what the dog owner says..


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## Accy cyclist (20 Oct 2012)

Dajoker188 said:


> I came across this the other day and thought i would share the video.
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUV4JOhtXmc
> .A guy goes for a bike ride and this happens. By the way check out what the dog owner says..



At least they were slightly apologetic about their looney dogs. If it'd been here the owners would probably have turned nasty even violent!
The bloke said that if he'd have remained silent they'd have eaten him, so that's why he was shouting like billyo! It looked terrifying!


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## steveindenmark (21 Oct 2012)

I have just read the stoy about the police officers and it was obvious someone did not do their homework. I am an ex police officer and so I am not police bashing, just stating a fact. The very least they should have had is full length shields to go in with. I worked in a support group and this is something that was practiced in training.

If something like this big dog comes at you and you can`t get away, the only thing to do is to get the bike between the two of you and try to get over a fence or wall or through somebody elses front door. It would happen so fast I doubt if you would have time to come up with an alternative plan.

Steve


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## steveindenmark (21 Oct 2012)

ACCY.....I would take that route off my GPS if I were him. That was insane.

Steve


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## Crankarm (21 Oct 2012)

A big white ugly mutt decided to take an interest in me as I walked to work across Jesus Green yesterday (I drove to work). No owners in sight a this point. It was running around the park up to total strangers sizing them up. Then further along into park it spotted me, came bounding over and jumped up at me trying to chew my arm. Oi! I shouted. I tried to put my pannier between me and it but it came around the front of me, jumping up, so I took a long swing, striking it on it's flank. Two people who had been walking about 50 yds in front suddenly turned on me. Next thing the guy about 35-40 is trying to hit me, I try to defend myself but he grabs my pannier out my hand and starts to run with it and the woman is screaming "Run, run!" These people looked middle class types, mid thirties, Cambridge set. Anyway I manage to grab my pannier back. Next thing the bloke is shouting "F*****g scum!" at me and woman is shouting "Get his picture, get his picture!" Bloke then shoves a mobile phone in my face. I tell them to stop taking pics of me but they continue so I try to get my mobile out my pannier to call the police but they try to grab my pannier again. Eventually manage to find my camera so start filming them. Both continue shouting totally false things at me. She is chillingly intimidating, like she could kill some one, they are both still advancing toward me as I am walking backwards trying to get away from them. Bloke has dog lead round his neck not his dog's neck. I tell them to put the dog on a lead which cues more swearing at me that I am going to get a vet's bill. Yeah right, well I will be contacting the police! Nasty nasty people. I hate dogs and their fricking owners. I was just walking to work minding my own business and their out of control mutt decides to chew me. Most cretinous dog owners only have dogs because they sad insecure people. They walk them as far as the first sh1t then head for home.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (21 Oct 2012)

I had to walk to primary school up a street full of dog owners. They all went to work and let them roam, so at 5/6 years old I'm being followed up the road by packs of 10 of them.
It took having friends with a dog to visit in my thirties before I could be in the same room as the things.
I've never been comfortable around dogs and cannot understand why anyone would want one.
Yes they can be cute and loyal, but apart from eating and crapping there's not much use for them. I'm sorry dog owners, but I'll never feel any different.

Apart from the standard belligerent idiots that can't control them and believe it's your fault for being there I've not had too many incidents that I couldn't outrun.
My favourite was the new mum with a pram, and a doberman running loose that decided I was a threat. Just stupid.
I'm sorry to say if I was attacked by a dog I would kill it without regret.


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## Mad Doug Biker (21 Oct 2012)

Dajoker188 said:


> .A guy goes for a bike ride and this happens. By the way check out what the dog owner says..



They were right, if he hadn't shouted and yelled like that then they would have lost interest much quicker. What I saw was a bunch of dogs going to investigate what was on their territory (just as you would investigate if someone rang your doorbell), and seeing some big thing yelling at them, NOT a pack of viscous beasts about to eat him. Note also how they *rarely* actually get right up close to him, they stay back and monitor the situation, if they we in attack mode they wouldn't have just stood like that. Even then they approached the guy originally, I saw a few gaps he could easily have cycled through, but no, he stops and starts yelling, therefore Pekeing their interest further. Clever, NOT!

The guy was obviously a complete idiot with no idea of canine behaviour at all. 



Accy cyclist said:


> It looked terrifying!



NO... IT..... WASN'T.... The guy made it about 10 times worse as I have already mentioned above, my God he even started before he'd even stopped! 

Also, you do realise that they can sense when you are scared and take it as a cue that there is something bad happening or about to happen so they react accordingly? Dogs live very much in the moment, what happened 2 minutes ago won't mean anything much to them (unless they have learned by association or it is instinctive of course). 

Oh and the owners didn't really apologise either because 'the looney cyclist' brought it on himself, watch the film again and look where the dogs stand for example, if they were going to attack him then they would have, not stood several feet away watching in curiosity as a bike is pointlessly waved at them.


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## Mad Doug Biker (21 Oct 2012)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> but apart from eating and *crapping* there's not much use for them.



That's a use? 

Actually, you get the exercise, the companionship, the unconditional love, a home security system etc etc. WAY better than a lot of humans out there! (And some of the people on this thread if serious).


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## on the road (22 Oct 2012)

Crankarm said:


> A big white ugly mutt decided to take an interest in me as I walked to work across Jesus Green yesterday (I drove to work). No owners in sight a this point. It was running around the park up to total strangers sizing them up. Then further along into park it spotted me, came bounding over and jumped up at me trying to chew my arm. Oi! I shouted. I tried to put my pannier between me and it but it came around the front of me, jumping up, so I took a long swing, striking it on it's flank. Two people who had been walking about 50 yds in front suddenly turned on me. Next thing the guy about 35-40 is trying to hit me, I try to defend myself but he grabs my pannier out my hand and starts to run with it and the woman is screaming "Run, run!" These people looked middle class types, mid thirties, Cambridge set. Anyway I manage to grab my pannier back. Next thing the bloke is shouting "F*****g scum!" at me and woman is shouting "Get his picture, get his picture!" Bloke then shoves a mobile phone in my face. I tell them to stop taking pics of me but they continue so I try to get my mobile out my pannier to call the police but they try to grab my pannier again. Eventually manage to find my camera so start filming them. Both continue shouting totally false things at me. She is chillingly intimidating, like she could kill some one, they are both still advancing toward me as I am walking backwards trying to get away from them. Bloke has dog lead round his neck not his dog's neck. I tell them to put the dog on a lead which cues more swearing at me that I am going to get a vet's bill. Yeah right, well I will be contacting the police! Nasty nasty people. I hate dogs and their fricking owners. I was just walking to work minding my own business and their out of control mutt decides to chew me. Most cretinous dog owners only have dogs because they sad insecure people. They walk them as far as the first sh1t then head for home.


You couldn't have overeacted by any chance, like the guy in the video?


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## Mad Doug Biker (22 Oct 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Somebody told me that certain powerful dogs (including Pit Bull types) have a kind of ratchet mechanism in their jaws which locks the jaws shut unless they decide to unlock them! You would think that having your eyes gouged would put you off, but it would not surprise me if a Pit Bull would 'bite to the death'!
> 
> Many years ago, before the Pit Bull ban came in, I saw a pair of them chained up outside Spar in Hebden Bridge. At the time, I did not know what breed they were, but they looked so intimidating that I chose to step off the pavement and walk past them on the road. As I drew alongside them, one of the dogs snarled. I looked at him and saw that he had something in his mouth. He bit down hard and blood started to drip out of his gums. There was a sudden loud cracking noise as he finally bit through what turned out to be half a house brick! I thought then that I wouldn't like one of those dogs to take a dislike to me!



My parents.... well its the family dog actually have a 3 legged Staffie, the most sweetest thing possible (she's a Pedigree... or was until she had the car accident before we got her, so has most of the best traits), but they see it as some sort of duty to rescue Staffies as they have such a bad name.

Most of them are nice and friendly, but because some aren't, either down to bad ownership or the occasional mad dog, and also the fact that they happen to look like pit bills, they have such a bad press.

I personally would like something like a Greyhound or some other kind of hound next, because people actually judge you when you have a Staffie, you can see it in their faces, their little beady eyes that are too close together watching you, wondering how many convictions you quite *obviously* must have etc etc.

Luckily the 3 legs is a perfect foil, nobody expects THAT!


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## monkeylc (22 Oct 2012)

Dogs are brought up the same as kids,if you do it wrong so are they!

And you....for doing so.


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## shouldbeinbed (22 Oct 2012)

Raging Squirrel said:


> I'm sure only English Putbull's "lock on" as they have a mechanism in their jaw, other dogs are just too strong to make let go. The best way to deal with it if it's clamped onto your leg is to grab it's collar (if it is wearing one) and twist it as hard as you can, basically choking the dog and it will automatically release, and then you just try your hardest to keep hold of it til the owner or someone passing by can stop and help.


 
if you are able to get it, get your pump under the collar as a lever to help twist it. thick collars and chain ones can be too solid or very uncomfortable on the hands. If its a choke chain (nasty things) its easier to choke them with it.


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## Accy cyclist (22 Oct 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> They were right, if he hadn't shouted and yelled like that then they would have lost interest much quicker. What I saw was a bunch of dogs going to investigate what was on their territory (just as you would investigate if someone rang your doorbell), and seeing some big thing yelling at them, NOT a pack of viscous beasts about to eat him. Note also how they *rarely* actually get right up close to him, they stay back and monitor the situation, if they we in attack mode they wouldn't have just stood like that. Even then they approached the guy originally, I saw a few gaps he could easily have cycled through, but no, he stops and starts yelling, therefore Pekeing their interest further. Clever, NOT!
> 
> The guy was obviously a complete idiot with no idea of canine behaviour at all.
> 
> ...


 
You obviously know about canine behaviour but perhaps the bloke in the video doesn't know about canine behaviour. It's ok saying you should stand still,not make a noise, don't look them in the eye etc but in the heat of the moment that can sometimes be forgotten! I had to take a detour tonight on my way home as some lowlifes had one of these "status dogs" in the middle of a quiet but main road running all over the place. For a second i did think about riding past them and if it came at me what i'd do to pacify the horrible thing, but it was only a seconds thought, i swiftly decided to turn right and avoid the thing. I've had dogs for years and i'm a dog/all animals lover but as a cyclist i see dogs as a threat!


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## shouldbeinbed (22 Oct 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> My parents.... well its the family dog actually have a 3 legged Staffie, the most sweetest thing possible (she's a Pedigree... or was until she had the car accident before we got her, so has most of the best traits), but they see it as some sort of duty to rescue Staffies as they have such a bad name.
> 
> Most of them are nice and friendly, but because some aren't, either down to bad ownership or the occasional mad dog, and also the fact that they happen to look like pit bills, they have such a bad press.
> 
> ...


 
I've got 3 greyhounds and do get nicer treatment from other owners and passers by than when I'm walking my sons Staffie (soft as owt and daft as a brush) I've also got visible tattoos when wearing shorts or shorter than normal sleeved t-shirts - I'm obviously a wrong un.


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## Mad Doug Biker (22 Oct 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> You obviously know about canine behaviour but perhaps the bloke in the video doesn't know about canine behaviour. It's ok saying you should stand still,not make a noise, don't look them in the eye etc but in the heat of the moment that can sometimes be forgotten!



He said he had worked with dogs in the past though, so if true, surely must have had some sort of idea, or at least clicked when the owners were talking to him? Maybe I'm just more instinctive about these things (or possibly more naive), but I'd find it VERY difficult to forget info like that. Admittedly, we have had had dogs for 11 years now, so I've had a while to practice right from scratch and have got to know the canine condition just a bit. I'm still learning though.



> I had to take a detour tonight on my way home as some lowlifes had one of these "status dogs" in the middle of a quiet but main road running all over the place. For a second i did think about riding past them and if it came at me what i'd do to pacify the horrible thing, but it was only a seconds thought, i swiftly decided to turn right and avoid the thing. I've had dogs for years and i'm a dog/all animals lover but as a cyclist i see dogs as a threat!



Well you are taking a certain risk every time you cycle past any dog, I agree, but as for the 'lowlife' bit, as I've said, I do feel people judge me because I happen to have a Staffie in tow. I rarely let her off the lead these days, but still, you see them watchin' you, and it isn't paranoia either! Most people are great, but you also get the few who just think you can't be up to any good.
We even have a neighbour who doesn't like coming to our door because of the dog. The reality is that Cindy would probably just lick her and ask for strokes/cuddles.


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## shouldbeinbed (22 Oct 2012)

Accy cyclist said:


> You obviously know about canine behaviour but perhaps the bloke in the video doesn't know about canine behaviour. It's ok saying you should stand still,not make a noise, don't look them in the eye etc but in the heat of the moment that can sometimes be forgotten! I had to take a detour tonight on my way home as some lowlifes had one of these "status dogs" in the middle of a quiet but main road running all over the place. For a second i did think about riding past them and if it came at me what i'd do to pacify the horrible thing, but it was only a seconds thought, i swiftly decided to turn right and avoid the thing.
> **I've had dogs for years and i'm a dog/all animals lover**
> *but as a cyclist i see dogs as a threat*!


 
you'd be great on jury service with an openminded attitude like that.

_**do you find yourself saying 'I'm not racist but' and claiming to have lots of black friends as well?**_

*more so than cars? *


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## Deleted member 20519 (22 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> According to a QI I watched recently, to release the lock jaws you need to shove something up their anal passage, a pen being the preferred suggestion although may not be practical.


 
How about a d-lock?


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## CopperCyclist (22 Oct 2012)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I've got 3 greyhounds and do get nicer treatment from other owners and passers by than when I'm walking my sons Staffie (soft as owt and daft as a brush) I've also got visible tattoos when wearing shorts or shorter than normal sleeved t-shirts - I'm obviously a wrong un.



I've got a Staffy and a Springer. Recently, the Staffy got an infected paw and wasn't allowed to be walked for a few days. I noticed a distinct rise in the number of people who left their dogs off lead when I approached with just the Springer!


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## Crankarm (22 Oct 2012)

pubrunner said:


> That's a typical knee-jerk reaction; wouldn't it be better to exterminate the irresponsible owners ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Idiot.


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## Crankarm (22 Oct 2012)

on the road said:


> You couldn't have overeacted by any chance, like the guy in the video?


 
Nope. Are you are dog lover by any chance?


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## pubrunner (22 Oct 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Idiot.


 
Your reply ;

Constructive ?. . . . . . . 'nope'

Witty ?. . . . . . . 'nope'

Result . . . . . . .* 'Fail'*


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## Dajoker188 (22 Oct 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> He said he had worked with dogs in the past though, so if true, surely must have had some sort of idea, or at least clicked when the owners were talking to him? Maybe I'm just more instinctive about these things (or possibly more naive), but I'd find it VERY difficult to forget info like that. Admittedly, we have had had dogs for 11 years now, so I've had a while to practice right from scratch and have got to know the canine condition just a bit. I'm still learning though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be honest I am a dog lover myself but surely people have a right to use public walks ways/areas without fear of initimidation. And to be fair the guys actions though a little comical, were actually justified. People shouldn't be *expected* to have knowledge of dog behaviour just to avoid dog attacks in areas designated for public use..


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## Mad Doug Biker (22 Oct 2012)

Dajoker188 said:


> People shouldn't be *expected* to have knowledge of dog behaviour just to avoid dog attacks in areas designated for public use..



I agree, but he actually said that he had worked with dogs, so must have known something at least.

I wonder if better education in society as a whole would actually help or not. Annyway.


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## 4F (22 Oct 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I agree, but he actually said that he had worked with dogs, so must have known something at least.
> I wonder if better education in society as a whole would actually help or not. Annyway.


 
I think the best help would be keep the dog on a lead otherwise you start to get in the realms of victim blaming.

As a dog owner myself, mine always goes on a lead as soon as we see anyone else either on foot or bike and if I was on a shared use path they would always be on a short lead.


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## on the road (22 Oct 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> I've got a Staffy and a Springer. Recently, the Staffy got an infected paw and wasn't allowed to be walked for a few days. I noticed a distinct rise in the number of people who left their dogs off lead when I approached with just the Springer!


Staffies have got a poor reputation thanks to the chavs and the low lifes using them as status dogs, some of them teach them to fight, that's the reason I don't get staffies. I've had dobermans and alsations in the past and they don't seem to have quite as bad a reputation as staffies even though they should.

Once when walking through the park with my dog (my dog is the same hight as a staff but slimline and wouldn't harm a fly) I was walking past a group of guys who were waiting for their fix with a staff that that was fiercly growling at my dog and chomping a the bit try to get at my dog, it looked like they had tought it to fight with other dogs, when I came back they were still there (obviously the drug man didn't arrive) so I had to take a detour and it's people like them that have given staffies a bad name.


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## Mad Doug Biker (22 Oct 2012)

Regardless of breed, some dogs naturally just don't like others, so growling etc doesn't necessarily mean that it has been trained to fight as well you will know, being a dog owner and all. Also, the stereotyping of owners doesn't help! Waiting for their fix? Did you ask? 

They do have a bad name from the idiot owners though, I agree, although they do seem to be flavour of the month in the press recently regarding them being dangerous. I remember the whole Rottweiller thing several years ago. Now nobody bothers with them, so how much is it the owners and how much is it scare stories in the media portraying every Staffie as a 'Devil Dog'?


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## on the road (22 Oct 2012)

Crankarm said:


> Nope. Are you are dog lover by any chance?


Well I have a dog, and I love my dog, so I suppose that must make me a dog lover then


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## on the road (22 Oct 2012)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Regardless of breed, some dogs naturally just don't like others, so growling etc doesn't necessarily mean that it has been trained to fight as well you will know, being a dog owner and all. Also, the stereotyping of owners doesn't help! Waiting for their fix? Did you ask?


I know them.


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## Mad Doug Biker (22 Oct 2012)

on the road said:


> I know them.



Fairynuff


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## Cyclopathic (22 Oct 2012)

I'm fairly fed up with status dogs. Every other one around my way seems to be one and I'm afraid that I do make the assumption that they are going to be aggressive and they usually are because their owners are usually aggressive. It's a vicious cycle where by idiot, insecure aggressive morons get status dogs because they enjoy being able to intimidate people with them and because they don't know to express themselves in anything other than aggressive terms that is the behaviour they pas on to the dog. Then because these dogs are aggressive other morons see them and want one.
People with them will always deny getting them because they are aggressive and say how loving they are and excellent companions. I find that this is true of most dogs and find it hard to believe that status dogs are any more loving than any other.
I walk the family dog every day but have opted to take the 10pm walk because there are very few other dog walkers out at that time. I don't cope well with dog confrontation and am aware that my reaction could make things worse so I just try to avoid contact. Peple with aggressive dogs have really sucked a lot of the joy out of walking our dog for me and I bloody well resent that.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (22 Oct 2012)

I love dogs even though i've never owned one.
I once had a couple of medium sized dogs set about me whilst out walking, but instead of fighting against
them i carried on walking, avoiding eye contact, hands in coat pockets, etc.
They lost interest, i was just a moving object to them.

As for dogs when on the bike ... i have a regular 30 mile route that i hit 2 or 3 times a week, at either 5am or 6pm
depending on work commitments.

I know where all the dogs are, plus the ones that are liable to shoot out from under the owners ill fitting front gates.
One time i had a staffy attack my rear wheel and i felt a brief jump from the bike as it clamped down (crazy mutt)!
There's five border collies that always have something to say when i pass ... until one day their gate popped open,
i just stopped and got off, ended up patting them all while the frantic owner came running out.

Anyway, i have tried several deterents on a couple of the "trap door spiders" that fly out from nowhere.

Ultrasonic devices don't work, a barking dog is too noisy to hear them anyway. (Poor).
A squirt from the water bottle ... hard to aim at 15mph+ (Poor).
Very bright light mounted on helmet ... dazzles the dog at night so it can't see you. (Good).

And my favorite that i use all the time ... a kids cap gun that uses the plastic caps. (Brilliant).

The gun fits nicely in my crossbar bag, plus makes enough racket to make the dogs owners think someone
has shot their dog!
http://www.capguncaps.co.uk/shop/ar...d1JAKq2Ohkd5RpvAKsoy6&shop_param=cid=2&aid=6&

And if you are really worried about being clamped by a pitbull and not in the uk:
http://www.waspknife.com/


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## Big boy (22 Oct 2012)

Dogs scare the crap outa me, even though i have 2 myself.
Most will just chase and bark, if you have to stop as others have said keep your bike in its way.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Oct 2012)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I've got 3 greyhounds and do get nicer treatment from other owners and passers by than when I'm walking my sons Staffie (soft as owt and daft as a brush) I've also got visible tattoos when wearing shorts or shorter than normal sleeved t-shirts - I'm obviously a wrong un.


 

Or you want everybody to think that you are! "Tatts" and "Staffies" wow so macho(!)


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