# Not enough sleep?



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

I`m wondering............

I have a busy job, and as a result, I try to make the evenings as long as possible, so more often than not I am retiring to bed at about 1am, only to be awoken by the alarm (bastard thing LOL!) at 6.10am. I cycle to work too which is 23 miles round trip, but I always look tired and drawn, with "bags" under my eyes.

Am I staying up too late? If so what is a good time to call it a day? So many people have told me I look "run down" lately, and it`s starting to make me think..............


----------



## fossyant (6 Feb 2016)

Too late in my opinion.


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

fossyant said:


> Too late in my opinion.


Thanks, I`m beginning to wonder..................


----------



## summerdays (6 Feb 2016)

The alarm goes off here at 6:20 though I'm normally awake before that, and I go to bed about now. Yesterday it was before 10, and staying up till 1 would have to to be out seeing friends to be back in that late. So unless you are one of those who needs very little sleep I'd say that's not enough.


----------



## LocalLad (6 Feb 2016)

Youre getting about 5 hours sleep.

Are you continually tired? If yes, then you need more sleep. If no, that's fine.


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

LocalLad said:


> Youre getting about 5 hours sleep.
> 
> Are you continually tired? If yes, then you need more sleep. If no, that's fine.


I don`t feel to bad in myself, but in the mirror I look shot, not really sure what to do for the best. If I go to bed at 10pm it feels too early.............


----------



## pclay (6 Feb 2016)

Should be in bed by 22:00 if the alarm goes off at 06:10. You should get enough sleep, you will feel better for it. I bet you are yawning all day?


----------



## screenman (6 Feb 2016)

An hour before 12 is worth 2 after. I bed at 11pm and alarm goes off at 5am I swim 2k 4 mornings a week before work, like you I also work long and hard. I am 60 in 6 weeks, maybe you need less sleep as you get older.


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

pclay said:


> Should be in bed by 22:00 if the alarm goes off at 06:10. You should get enough sleep, you will feel better for it. I bet you are yawning all day?


It never stops, LOL!


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

screenman said:


> *An hour before 12 is worth 2 after.* I bed at 11pm and alarm goes off at 5am I swim 2k 4 mornings a week before work, like you I also work long and hard. I am 60 in 6 weeks, maybe you need less sleep as you get older.


Interesting.................


----------



## summerdays (6 Feb 2016)

You don't have to make it 10pm, but how about trying an hour earlier each night and see if that makes a difference?


----------



## smokeysmoo (6 Feb 2016)

My normal start time sees my alarm go off at 6.45am, but I often have to start earlier which puts my alarm to 5.45am and even on occasion 4.45am. 

Regardless of time though I usually go to bed around 11pm during the week but mess on my tablet until about midnight, and I can confirm that for me I don't get enough sleep this way, but it's become a balance of family/Wifey time v's sleep time, so I suck it up and get on with it.

I'd say you need a few more zzzz's speccy, and if you find a way to achieve it please let me know


----------



## NorthernDave (6 Feb 2016)

My alarm is set for 5am during the week. If I'm not asleep by 11pm or thereabouts I do start to feel it after a couple of days.


----------



## alicat (6 Feb 2016)

A separate question is whether you are getting enough 'doing nothing' time. Couple of clues that ring alarm bells for your general health - 'I have a busy job'. 'I try to make the evenings as long as possible'.


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

alicat said:


> A separate question is whether you are getting enough 'doing nothing' time. Couple of clues that ring alarm bells for your general health - 'I have a busy job'. 'I try to make the evenings as long as possible'.


That`s debatable, time to sit down with a cuppa or a glass of red is very limited, I`m always running around busy, and having a house that I can`t keep up with doesn`t help LOL!


----------



## screenman (6 Feb 2016)

Time management, do you do it well?


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

screenman said:


> Time management, do you do it well?


Not sure I do. My biggest gripe is cooking tea. I cycle home, get in about 6, then spend ages cooking a meal, 5 mins eating it, and then the rest of the evening cleaning up the mess, and the following day the whole ritual starts again, along with anything else that has crept up along the way.........


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

screenman said:


> Time management, do you do it well?


I usually call it a day at about 10pm, that`s relaxing time if I get it.......


----------



## speccy1 (6 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I usually call it a day at about 10pm, that`s relaxing time if I get it.......


I`ve taken to eating sarnies for tea, just because I`m sick of being tied to the bloody kitchen!


----------



## fossyant (7 Feb 2016)

Are you cooking for a family ? TBH you can be cooked and cleaned up within an hour. 

My sleep is shocking but is pain related. I found the ride would wake me up but not sure how that's going to be when I do return to work as I will be driving instead.


----------



## speccy1 (7 Feb 2016)

fossyant said:


> Are you cooking for a family ? TBH you can be cooked and cleaned up within an hour.
> 
> My sleep is shocking but is pain related. I found the ride would wake me up but not sure how that's going to be when I do return to work as I will be driving instead.


Just cooking for myself

That`s why I`m now going down the lazy road and buying sarnies in Lidl on the way home.................


----------



## sanddancer (7 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I`m wondering............
> 
> I have a busy job, and as a result, I try to make the evenings as long as possible, so more often than not I am retiring to bed at about 1am, only to be awoken by the alarm (bastard thing LOL!) at 6.10am. I cycle to work too which is 23 miles round trip, but I always look tired and drawn, with "bags" under my eyes.
> 
> Am I staying up too late? If so what is a good time to call it a day? So many people have told me I look "run down" lately, and it`s starting to make me think..............




I am a terrible sleeper. Or more a terrible getting upperer 

my shift pattern doesn't help, I work 12hr shifts, 4 on 6 off , 2 days 2 nights.

my alarm goes off at 06:07 for days or 05:45 if I'm cycling. Last block I did two extra nights, and my sleep pattern went all to pot for the next 4 days to the point I got up late on my last day off then could not sleep at all that night before work the next day 
I am regularly still awake until 2 or 3am before work days. And suffer from bags and black circles under the eyes. 

I do the same as you and watch tv or surf the net in bed which is supposed to be a no no.
Try to go to bed relaxed and just to sleep.
eating late can be bad.
If the mrs is working afternoons etc I try and get them chinese ready meals from tesco, in the plastic containers 3 for £6 , chow mein, sweet n sour etc. Or the bag ones from asda, 2 for £5 thai sweet chilli beef noodles is nice  you could try them for a change from sarnies  bung em in the fridge .

I need to be tired to sleep and even then my mind can be racing and I can struggle.
the mrs can just close her eyes and thats it,

which is annoying


----------



## summerdays (7 Feb 2016)

Why don't you cook larger quantities and then have the second half the following day reheated, or freeze it to have on a different day?


----------



## alicat (7 Feb 2016)

^^^ What @summerdays and @sanddancer say. If you can shorten the time in the kitchen by batch cooking or getting more efficient/less ambitious, you can relax a bit then go to bed at midnight. Then after a week bring it forward half an hour. Repeat until you know in yourself that you are getting enough sleep.

For my part I try to spend most of my time at home relaxing with bursts of 'doing jobs'. I need notice when visitors are coming round but It reminds me I am a human being not a human doing. I get to bed at 11 for a 6.30 start. I wake up early at the weekend and think whoopee - it's my weekend, make the most of it.

@sanddancer - glad I don't have to do shifts.


----------



## screenman (7 Feb 2016)

Eating rubbish and wonder why sleep is a problem, it would certainly effect me.

Lidl sandwiches, come on it was only recently I worked out the microwave was not a tv that only showed cookery programs but even I can knock a healthy sarnie together.

Pick up a pencil and paper and draw for 10 minutes instead of tv or internet.


----------



## cyberknight (7 Feb 2016)

On day shift my alarm is for 5.20 am and im in bed by 10 .


----------



## mjr (7 Feb 2016)

LocalLad said:


> Are you continually tired? If yes, then you need more sleep. If no, that's fine.


It's not as simple as that. Mentally, I can survive on much less sleep without feeling tired, but before long, the body starts falling to bits.

I agree that Styrofoam sandwiches doesn't sound like a step forwards. As well as the make double and freeze/chill idea, look for quick but healthy meals for weekdays. That Jamie Oliver did a book full, if you like his style.


----------



## raleighnut (7 Feb 2016)

Try having 1 or 2 'early nights' each week.


----------



## mjr (7 Feb 2016)

raleighnut said:


> Try having 1 or 2 'early nights' each week.


@fnarr? But the OP wants to be LESS tired!


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (7 Feb 2016)

There seems to be organic indicators of low mood.....change in sleep, change of eating habits, change in motivation, others noticing a blunt affect and physical changes. Tbh it sounds like possible overtraining type symptoms/fatigue. I reckon if you carry on you'll end up breaking.

Sleep is crucial for the amount of riding you do and how busy your life is. Google sleep hygiene and blue wave light and how it interrupts the circadian rhythm.


----------



## cuberider (7 Feb 2016)

The last 3 shifts have been 4.00 a.m or 5.00 a.m alarms and its impossible to get enough sleep as I cant get to bed before 10.00 p.m.

I find it difficult to concentrate without 7-8 hrs sleep.


----------



## vickster (7 Feb 2016)

You should be able to easily cook, eat and clear up a healthy meal for one in under an hour

Count yourself lucky you don't have young kids and a full time job like some of my friends/colleagues (I am myself glad)

Why do you struggle to keep up with your house? You say you have plenty of money, why not us some of it to pay for handyman/decorator/cleaner/gardener or whatever is required?

As mentioned, it could also be other concerns or stresses in life contributing to lack of quality sleep


----------



## jonny jeez (7 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I`m wondering............
> 
> I have a busy job, and as a result, I try to make the evenings as long as possible, so more often than not I am retiring to bed at about 1am, only to be awoken by the alarm (bastard thing LOL!) at 6.10am. I cycle to work too which is 23 miles round trip, but I always look tired and drawn, with "bags" under my eyes.
> 
> Am I staying up too late? If so what is a good time to call it a day? So many people have told me I look "run down" lately, and it`s starting to make me think..............


Pretty much the same as me.

I resent going to bed at 10.00, when most often I only get in from work at about 8.00. It's not a fear of missing out but a resentment of feeling like I work more then I don't.

I tend to hit the sack around 12-1.00 too and have done for decades.

Also,if I try to sleep earlier, I find that I am still too awake (only getting home two hours earlier) and toss and turn , sometime getting an hour or two sleep.

Best to go to bed tired and ready than early and fail.

Having said all that...it's not right, I need to train myself to get more than 5 hours sleep, it's not good for me and I know it.


----------



## fossyant (7 Feb 2016)

I'd stay up later given a choice, but my wife likes to be asleep by 11, and with two teenagers it isn't easy. You can cook up a pasta dish or stir fry in less than 30 minutes.


----------



## steve50 (7 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I`m wondering............
> 
> I have a busy job, and as a result, I try to make the evenings as long as possible, so more often than not I am retiring to bed at about 1am, only to be awoken by the alarm (bastard thing LOL!) at 6.10am. I cycle to work too which is 23 miles round trip, but I always look tired and drawn, with "bags" under my eyes.
> 
> Am I staying up too late? If so what is a good time to call it a day? So many people have told me I look "run down" lately, and it`s starting to make me think..............





jonny jeez said:


> Pretty much the same as me.
> 
> I resent going to bed at 10.00, when most often I only get in from work at about 8.00. It's not a fear of missing out but a resentment of feeling like I work more then I don't.
> 
> ...



It's up to you guys but I would be looking at my work / job versus homelife, I have been in the same situation many years ago where I was working 60 hours a week and if the workload demanded it I would do the extra 12 hour shift taking me to 72 hours. It destroyed my home life and my first marriage, we had more money than we could spend , a new car, holidays twice a year BUT no home life during the working week which had a very negative effect on my marriage.
You are ok in the respect you are single but you still need to look at your diet and sleep pattern, a good diet is essential to a healthy active lifestyle as is quality of sleep, maybe make some changes to a healthier diet and a little more sleep?


----------



## Julia9054 (7 Feb 2016)

Make a big pot of mince ragu on Sunday night. Day 1, have some on spaghetti - takes 10 mins to prepare. Day 2, buy pre prepared mashed potato (£1 from Lidl) spoon it on top, 30 mins in oven - Shepherds pie. Day 3, add kidney beans and chilli powder, bung in oven for 45 mins, cook some rice - chilli con carne.


----------



## Crackle (7 Feb 2016)

When I sleep badly, last night being a good example, I may be OK mentally the next day but physically I feel far less able. Even this mornings wee dog walk felt a bit of a strain. On the other hand I feel absolutely splendiferous after a good nights sleep.


----------



## craigwend (7 Feb 2016)

there is no right or wrong though something's are un/helpful 
http://www.ntw.nhs.uk/pic/leaflets/Sleeping Problems A4 2015.pdf


----------



## Julia9054 (7 Feb 2016)

I too struggle to go to bed at a sensible time. In the holidays when my body clock gets to do its own thing, I go to bed about 1am and wake up at around 8.30 - 9. (One reason why I've never joined a cycling club - they all set off too early!) During the week, I have to force myself to go to bed before midnight even though I know I'm going to feel rubbish the next day. I guess I'm just not very grown up!


----------



## pclay (7 Feb 2016)

Eat plenty of fruit, no cooking required. Or try overnight oats, no cooking required. Or cook something simple, like beans on toast, or pasta with sauce.


----------



## mjr (7 Feb 2016)

Julia9054 said:


> ...and wake up at around 8.30 - 9. (One reason why I've never joined a cycling club - they all set off too early!)


Not all. KLWNBUG sets off at 10am (weekend lunch trips) or 7pm (evening rides). I'd not make anywhere near as many if they set off earlier!


----------



## mjr (7 Feb 2016)

pclay said:


> Or cook something simple, like beans on toast, or pasta with sauce.


Processed sauces  Fry a diced onion and green pepper in generous olive oil for five minutes. Add paprika (smoked if possible). Stir through. Add a pound (well, I'm hungry) of coarsely chipped tomatoes and cook on fairly high heat, stirring so it doesn't stick. Cook dried pasta according to pack instructions, drain and mix into the tomato sofrito. If you like, add anchovies or rocket at the last minute, or scramble an egg in it a few minutes before the pasta's ready, or mess this about as much as you like.


----------



## Col5632 (7 Feb 2016)

Buy the lean in 15 book, it's one of the best things we have bought, quick and easy meals which can all be prepared in 1 day and frozen to have all the other days. As for sleep it's not the amount you get its the quality, 10-6 is much better than 12-8 even though they are both 8 hours, your body basically shuts down around 10pm and that's when you should go to bed. I'm saying all this but I pretty much stay up till 1 most nights, up at half 7 and on the bike to work for 9.


----------



## sanddancer (7 Feb 2016)

alicat said:


> @sanddancer - glad I don't have to do shifts.




the time off and the extra money is good though 

I only work 12 days or less a month and the rest are my own. 

This time of the year is worst for me, I suffer a bit of SADS with the short days. Not as bad this winter with the mild weather though. 

If i get decent kip for my two day shifts It helps


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Feb 2016)

Promethazine Hydrachloride (Brand name Phenargen or weaker is night nurse) is indicated for a sedative effect and I know a lot of colleagues use it when rotating on/off nights. It's an anti-histamine. Just follow the instructions on the Patient Information Leaflet inside.


----------



## sanddancer (8 Feb 2016)

just_fixed said:


> Promethazine Hydrachloride (Brand name Phenargen or weaker is night nurse) is indicated for a sedative effect and I know a lot of colleagues use it when rotating on/off nights. It's an anti-histamine. Just follow the instructions on the Patient Information Leaflet inside.




Personally I would rather have a few tired days than resort to drugs  
Unless its alcohol


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Feb 2016)

sanddancer said:


> Personally I would rather have a few tired days than resort to drugs
> Unless its alcohol


Not a 'drug'....well they are but antihistamines are far far far less harmless than booze. Booze has the complete opposite effect, it disrupts the circadian rhythms and stops the rem cycle.


----------



## sanddancer (8 Feb 2016)

just_fixed said:


> Not a 'drug'....well they are but antihistamines are far far far less harmless than booze. Booze has the complete opposite effect, it disrupts the circadian rhythms and stops the rem cycle.




Have you seen the potential list of side effects ? 

Mind you i could do with some this morning, I've only had an hour after my last 12hr night this morning


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (8 Feb 2016)

sanddancer said:


> Have you seen the potential list of side effects ?
> 
> Mind you i could do with some this morning, I've only had an hour after my last 12hr night this morning


Still less than booze and sugar. I agree they're not for me but they are widely used to aid sleep for short periods of time.


----------



## sanddancer (8 Feb 2016)

just_fixed said:


> Still less than booze and sugar. I agree they're not for me but they are widely used to aid sleep for short periods of time.




My body is attuned to alcohol, especially red wine 
I am just looking at some case studies on alcohol and circadian rhythms but I am afraid I will need more sleep to take it in 

do your colleagues just take night nurse as and when required ? 
As I have heard people say it takes a week or so to adjust to it ?


----------



## ianrauk (8 Feb 2016)

You get in at 6pm and go to bed at 1am.
Thats 7 hours... what are you doing with all that time?

Cooking a meal and cleaning up after shouldn't take more then an hour. What are you doing for the other 6 hours?


----------



## david k (9 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I`m wondering............
> 
> I have a busy job, and as a result, I try to make the evenings as long as possible, so more often than not I am retiring to bed at about 1am, only to be awoken by the alarm (bastard thing LOL!) at 6.10am. I cycle to work too which is 23 miles round trip, but I always look tired and drawn, with "bags" under my eyes.
> 
> Am I staying up too late? If so what is a good time to call it a day? So many people have told me I look "run down" lately, and it`s starting to make me think..............



You need more sleep, m surprised you're not tired and sleepy in the evenings?


----------



## Ian A (19 Feb 2016)

I've never slept well but the last few years I've had consistent poor sleep with no real respite. Family health problems being the cause rather than a rock star lifestyle. I've gone from being told I look younger than my age to looking like my dad. Address it now before it's too late .


----------



## gavroche (19 Feb 2016)

speccy1 said:


> I`ve taken to eating sarnies for tea, just because I`m sick of being tied to the bloody kitchen!


Buy a slow cooker. Put it on before you go to work and your meal will be ready when you get home. If you do enough, you can have enough for two or three meals .


----------



## Sheffield_Tiger (19 Feb 2016)

Another one in the "no sleep" club here, I see so much in this thread that I relate to and it's not doing me any good. Since I'm technically an ecommerce manager but increasingly a graphic designer plus the sorry state of the cycle department frustrated me so that is now my domain and we now have a decent entry level range, a good women's range and increasing e-bikes and accessories - but with no-one except me to run it and do the assembly, servicing, buying, stock replen, add to the website etc..

Which means I get to work at 9, finish work between 7 and 10, eat a takeaway or a pot noodle, feel cheated if I were to go to bed at 10/11 with no "me time" - couldn't sleep anyway with things going round my head, so then end up getting a "second wind" and going to bed at 1. Oh and working 7 days, with only 2 days off so far this year.

And I'm breaking, with only a 12 mile round trip....

I'm good at telling other people not to do things though, and not so good at getting out of the habit myself.

I definitely think that there is an "over-tired" which becomes a self perpetuating cycle because at 22:10 tonight as I type this, there is no way my brain will shut off and allow me to sleep for at least another couple of hours


----------



## Ian A (19 Feb 2016)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Another one in the "no sleep" club here, I see so much in this thread that I relate to and it's not doing me any good. Since I'm technically an ecommerce manager but increasingly a graphic designer plus the sorry state of the cycle department frustrated me so that is now my domain and we now have a decent entry level range, a good women's range and increasing e-bikes and accessories - but with no-one except me to run it and do the assembly, servicing, buying, stock replen, add to the website etc..
> 
> Which means I get to work at 9, finish work between 7 and 10, eat a takeaway or a pot noodle, feel cheated if I were to go to bed at 10/11 with no "me time" - couldn't sleep anyway with things going round my head, so then end up getting a "second wind" and going to bed at 1. Oh and working 7 days, with only 2 days off so far this year.
> 
> ...


I appreciate nothing is easy and these kind if situations can happen to anyone but I would suggest your main priority should be changing job.


----------

