# Cav and 2014



## Doc333 (20 Dec 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/25405240

Nice piece from the BBC interview with Cav where he spoke about 2013 and how he saw things develop and not go to plan etc. Must be Xmas if he's marketing his new book, but all the same some good insight into OPQ plans for the coming year.

I have to say I have loved watching Mark over the last few years and was sorry that Team Sky were not bothered about the green jersey/sprints points. But will never forget Wiggo leading Cav out on the Champs Eysee the year before last. Brought a tear to my eye. I watched his new team take shape this year, but in my view the team wasn't right and by the end of the season it looked more like Cav was 2nd best to Kittel and Sagen. I now get the feeling that Cav wants to put the record straight this coming year and now he's got Renshaw leading him out as well as Meersman et al, you would think that there's no excuse.

Will Mark be able to prove a point or do you think his best days are behind him and he will only manage a handful of stage wins on the major tours next year. Is he still capable of ripping it up again?


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## thom (20 Dec 2013)

Doc333 said:


> do you think his best days are behind him and he will only manage a handful of stage wins on the major tours next year


Just the one handful… 

There's only one British cyclist to have won more pro-races than Cav did last season… and he's called Mark Cavendish too.


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## Mr Haematocrit (20 Dec 2013)

Im really excited about OPQS this year, its starting to look a really interesting team
The HTC trains of old with Renshaw and Cav at the head of it were something of beauty imho, The guys rode with big hearts.... I'm happy to see Renshaw back with Cav and hope the relationship works really well once more.

Kittel is a great sprinter and I believe will continue to improve this year, but Saggy is not an out and out sprinter imho I don't think he has Cav's pace on a flat sprint.
This year I think Cav will do really well.


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## raindog (20 Dec 2013)

I reckon I wouldn't mind if he never won another race after seeing him take the red jersey in the last Giro after coming to within one point the year before, and in particularly horrible conditions too, plus the Giro really doesn't favour sprinters. Absolutely massive achievement imo.


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## Hont (20 Dec 2013)

I think the days of being capable of winning every bunch sprint in the Tour are probably over but that's no bad thing IMO. I would not want to see Merckx toppled from the top of all-time stage winners by a sprinter - even if he is British.

I still think he will win multiple stages, he is too driven, too smart and too fast not to (barring injuries). Having Renshaw and Petacchi in the leadout can only be an improvement on 2013.


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## Mattonsea (20 Dec 2013)

I reckon the 2nd year of Cav being in OPQS will be more fruitful , with the new teammates and the realisation of having decent sprint competition he will be
driven again.


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Dec 2013)

Cav has been working on optimizing his sprint position on the bike in the new Specialized wind tunnel... Is it getting serious yet?


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## Roadrider48 (21 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Im really excited about OPQS this year, its starting to look a really interesting team
> The HTC trains of old with Renshaw and Cav at the head of it were something of beauty imho, The guys rode with big hearts.... I'm happy to see Renshaw back with Cav and hope the relationship works really well once more.
> 
> Kittel is a great sprinter and I believe will continue to improve this year, but Saggy is not an out and out sprinter imho I don't think he has Cav's pace on a flat sprint.
> This year I think Cav will do really well.


What did you think about Gos leading out Cav, given that Gos is himself a sprinter?


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Dec 2013)

Roadrider48 said:


> What did you think about Gos leading out Cav, given that Gos is himself a sprinter?



Gossy is still with Orica Green Edge for 2014..... Perhaps your thinking of Mark Renshaw who has joined OPQ

If that's the case, Renshaw is a better lead out man than sprinter IMHO, its a really good pairing, they used to work well at Highroad.


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## musa (21 Dec 2013)

him and the team have on the velodrome in valencia recently preparing for the TTT


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## Roadrider48 (21 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Gossy is still with Orica Green Edge for 2014..... Perhaps your thinking of Mark Renshaw who has joined OPQ
> 
> If that's the case, Renshaw is a better lead out man than sprinter IMHO, its a really good pairing, they used to work well at Highroad.


Sorry, I thought Gos played lead out for Cav when Renshaw was banned for a while. But I stand corrected I'm sure.


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## Mr Haematocrit (21 Dec 2013)

Wind tunnel testing


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## Roadrider48 (21 Dec 2013)

I love Cav's passion! Agreed about Renshaw.


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## Rob3rt (22 Dec 2013)

Looks like a useless test tbh, working on your sprint position in a wind tunnel on a static bike when in reality you will be throwing the bike all over and the position being very dynamic. Probably just marketing!


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## tigger (22 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Looks like a useless test tbh, working on your sprint position in a wind tunnel on a static bike when in reality you will be throwing the bike all over and the position being very dynamic. Probably just marketing!



And he's at least 5kg over his race weight by the looks of things


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Dec 2013)

I just think they are trying to cover all bases this year and the wind tunnel work is just part of it (marginal gains anyone) Cav's 2014 bike for example is running the new zipp's SL Sprint stem designed to meet the demands of Grand Tour sprinters with the highest stiffness-to-weight ratio of any stem on the market. The SL Sprint even comes with its own top cap, designed to be aerodynamically efficient it blends neatly into the body of the stem. Zipp's Service Course SL handlebar Cav is using is available in three reach options (the horizontal distance from the bar’s stem clamp area to center of the brake perch). With the usual range of widths on offer too, the Service Course SL allows riders to get closer to their perfect cockpit than ever before.
Cav's bike also features wheels with the new Zipp 188 v9 hubs which Cav developed with Zipp. These feature larger, thicker flanges and larger Swiss stainless steel bearings in the hub shell (same 17mm axle) which add up to a 20% laterally stiffer and 140% torsionally stiffer wheel. That means there’s virtually no effort lost to wind up or flex during massive sprinting efforts.

Am I starting to sound like a stalker yet


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## Peteaud (22 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> The SL Sprint even comes with its own top cap, designed to be aerodynamically efficient it blends neatly into the body of the stem.
> 
> Am I starting to sound like a stalker yet




1) pics
2) yes


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Dec 2013)

The SL sprint stem is a development of the SL145 stem which Cav used last year and was able to flex with his riding style. It is designed to smooth the airflow onto the frame.
You can also see it on his venge in the wind tunnel pictures, along with the only working set of sram 22 red hydro in existence.


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## Rob3rt (23 Dec 2013)

That top cap is a worse fit than the standard top caps on any of my bikes.

Got to love the marketing though.


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## thom (23 Dec 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Got to love the marketing though.


Reading this thread, it feels like someones trying to sell me something…

I thought everyone knew the whole marketing spiel was bullshit - not really sure what an advertorial on expensive Zipp products has got to do with Cav...


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## SteCenturion (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I just think they are trying to cover all bases this year and the wind tunnel work is just part of it (marginal gains anyone) Cav's 2014 bike for example is running the new zipp's SL Sprint stem designed to meet the demands of Grand Tour sprinters with the highest stiffness-to-weight ratio of any stem on the market. The SL Sprint even comes with its own top cap, designed to be aerodynamically efficient it blends neatly into the body of the stem. Zipp's Service Course SL handlebar Cav is using is available in three reach options (the horizontal distance from the bar’s stem clamp area to center of the brake perch). With the usual range of widths on offer too, the Service Course SL allows riders to get closer to their perfect cockpit than ever before.
> Cav's bike also features wheels with the new Zipp 188 v9 hubs which Cav developed with Zipp. These feature larger, thicker flanges and larger Swiss stainless steel bearings in the hub shell (same 17mm axle) which add up to a 20% laterally stiffer and 140% torsionally stiffer wheel. That means there’s virtually no effort lost to wind up or flex during massive sprinting efforts.
> 
> Am I starting to sound like a stalker yet


Not a stalker.

Zipp products salesman ??


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Jan 2014)

SteCenturion said:


> Not a stalker.
> 
> Zipp products salesman ??



lol... I wish might get staff discount
Zipp however only make it to number 10 in my fanboy list these days (they have been demoted due to being owned by SRAM)


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## Dusty Bin (3 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Looks like a useless test tbh, working on your sprint position in a wind tunnel on a static bike when in reality you will be throwing the bike all over and the position being very dynamic. Probably just marketing!



Agreed. And if he was serious about aero marginal gains, he would lose the beard...


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## SteCenturion (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> lol... I wish might get staff discount
> Zipp however only make it to number 10 in my fanboy list these days (they have been demoted due to being owned by SRAM)


Heathen !!

Sram Force on my Sintesi.


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## Dusty Bin (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Am I starting to sound like a stalker yet



Worse - it sounds as though you actually believe all that bullshit...


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> Worse - it sounds as though you actually believe all that bulls***...



Well Zipp have released the data showing that the new wheels featuring that hub is stiffer, and the new 145 sprint stem is more aero and stiffer than the old SL145 stem.. So yes I believe the data as I can't see why they would want to fake something such as that, I do however take the data into context as it does not show how the products compare to the competition, only to the previous products which have been around for years.
I also have the old SL145 stem and think its exceptionally stiff for myself, and I have a set of the Zipp 808 firecrest with the old hubs and a set of 808's with the new hubs.. I can't say I can tell the difference, perhaps I need to take my MTFU pills more often 
Data is very much like statistics in as much as they can paint the picture you wish to tell. Ultimately none of it makes the slightest bit of difference unless Cav wins more, or Zipp sells more wheels... Only time will tell if either happen.

Whats wrong with believing, didn't Santa come to your house?


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## thom (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Whats wrong with believing, didn't Santa come to your house?


Do you ever use this equipment to go racing ?


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Jan 2014)

thom said:


> Do you ever use this equipment to go racing ?



I have been known to Crit race on occasion.


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## Dusty Bin (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I have been known to Crit race on occasion.



With all those marginal gains at your disposal, you must be storming up the rider rankings..??


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> With all those marginal gains at your disposal, you must be storming up the rider rankings..??



Im flying.....the only marginal gain im focusing on at the moment is being less crap.


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## thom (3 Jan 2014)

Dusty Bin said:


> With all those marginal gains at your disposal, you must be storming up the rider rankings..??


yeah exactly - how much do these equipment upgrades improve your performance ?
I mean, it is a lot of money to be spent and my impression was that few mortal cyclists ever notice the difference - far better to just work on your fitness and ability to get up hills.


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## Mr Haematocrit (3 Jan 2014)

thom said:


> yeah exactly - how much do these equipment upgrades improve your performance ?
> I mean, it is a lot of money to be spent and my impression was that few mortal cyclists ever notice the difference - far better to just work on your fitness and ability to get up hills.



totally agree and to be honest all the bikes I have far exceed my ability upon them, and I doubt I use them to their maximum but I brought them for no other reason than they make me smile.
I dare say I could improve my Crit ability if I trained harder and took it more seriously, but I don't.. It's all a bit of fun for me.


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## thom (3 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> totally agree and to be honest all the bikes I have far exceed my ability upon them, and I doubt I use them to their maximum but I brought them for no other reason than they make me smile.
> I dare say I could improve my Crit ability if I trained harder and took it more seriously, but I don't.. It's all a bit of fun for me.


That's fair enough but it comes across as a very consumerist form of fun - still someone has to stimulate the "economy"...


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## RecordAceFromNew (16 Jan 2014)

Next he will be riding a child size...


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## screenman (16 Jan 2014)

Mr H, I like your style.


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## SteCenturion (17 Jan 2014)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Next he will be riding a child size...


Just viewed that Cav 49' bike.

Now - I am a MASSIVE Cav fan...

But...

Is he MENTAL ??

I mean - I would have thought that a 49 frameset would only suit a tiny Chap or small Chapess !!

@ 5-8' he is maybe slightly below average height for modern man & I would expect that a 54' maybe would be the size best for him - although I am definitely not a geometry expert. 

Even if he switches to a v. small 49' frame - his body is still the same size & will be hit by just as much 'air resistance' possibly more this way.

At bang on 6-0' I ride a 58' & still would ride a 58' in a Cube (I have been advised to go 60') even though they come up a bit small, so yes I Would rather go 'a little' small than too big.

The other things I noticed were (Zipp 404 Firecrest - 'Strictly for training') !!
Are these tubs not good enough for race day ?

The most laughable though was this - "Superlight Zipp SL stem" - @ 195 grams I believe - this isn't even light never mind Super Light - a lot of alloy stems come in lighter than this inc my 3T Team at around 130-135 grams. 

Still - he is the Pro & I am a mere mortal.


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## jowwy (17 Jan 2014)

i'm always of the opinion that if you can afford something and you want it - go get it. cause at the end of the day its up to the person who's paying, riding, enjoying, to get what he/she wants.

Mr H has some cracking looking bikes, he rides them and enjoys them as much as anybody else would. doesn't matter whether he races or not.

I've seen plenty of golfers in my playing and club building days with the most expensive equipment available on the market and can't swing a club for toffee, but they enjoy it, so chapeau to them.

Long may you enjoy your rides @Mr Haematocrit


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## Hont (17 Jan 2014)

SteCenturion said:


> Just viewed that Cav 49' bike.
> Is he MENTAL ??



Well Cav is known to favour a long stem, so this will compensate a little for the frame being theoretically too small for him (and may add enough weight to make the stem heavier than other options). My guess is that he likes the low front end but, as the article says, he may change back in a couple of weeks.


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## SteCenturion (17 Jan 2014)

Hont said:


> Well Cav is known to favour a long stem, so this will compensate a little for the frame being theoretically too small for him (and may add enough weight to make the stem heavier than other options). My guess is that he likes the low front end but, as the article says, he may change back in a couple of weeks.


Just been on the Zipp website - claimed weight for the Zipp SL Sprint stem is 165g for a 100mm stem.

Granted this is fairly light - but 100-110 are 'probably' considered average/standard stem lengths as supplied on new bikes to the public & so if Cav 'rides a long stem' (insert smutty humour) it will weigh fractionally more.

Not a problem as the UCI has a total weight limit of 6.7 kg (could be 6.9) on complete bike weight anyway.

The point I am making is that the SL moniker for a Carbon/Titanium built stem that is not SuperLight is a bit of a joke (all though it does look strong for sprint purposes).
Again my aluminium/titanium 3T stem is approx 130-135g.

Add length to anything though and surely you have more flex (not good for sprinting).

Still can't get my head round that frame size though.

The 49'' top tube must be a lot smaller than a 52" & so you would need a very long stem to compensate.

The geometry in relation to his body size must be way out.

No expert as I say - just seems like Madness.


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Jan 2014)

SteCenturion said:


> Still can't get my head round that frame size though.
> The 49'' top tube must be a lot smaller than a 52" & so you would need a very long stem to compensate.
> 
> The geometry in relation to his body size must be way out.
> No expert as I say - just seems like Madness.



The 49 has a top tube of 518mm with a stand over height of 741mm and the 52 has 537mm top tube and stand over height of 766mm
Cav is experimenting with 120mm and 140mm stems on this bike apparently


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## Basil.B (18 Jan 2014)

In his book Boy Racer, Cav mentions he has short legs and long torso.
If my memory serves me well.


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## Chris Norton (18 Jan 2014)

Same body as me. I have 24" legs and therefore have to have quite small bikes but a longer stem to compensate. I'm 5'6 and am looking at a 48cm Raleigh as my roadie. Much bigger and its all wrong.


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## montage (18 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> The 49 has a top tube of 518mm with a stand over height of 741mm and the 52 has 537mm top tube and stand over height of 766mm
> Cav is experimenting with 120mm and 140mm stems on this bike apparently



Assuming they measure bike by the seat tube - why do this? Top tube length is far more important in a bike fit, seat tube just tell you how much seatpost you need sticking out!


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## SteCenturion (18 Jan 2014)

Basil.B said:


> In his book Boy Racer, Cav mentions he has short legs and long torso.
> If my memory serves me well.


Short legs/long torso you say.

We could be 'Twins' - 'cept I am 6 ft tall & faster (in a 30 foot sprint to the bar).

I ain't no oil painting either.

Err - long lost cousins ?


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## andrew_s (19 Jan 2014)

montage said:


> Assuming they measure bike by the seat tube - why do this? Top tube length is far more important in a bike fit, seat tube just tell you how much seatpost you need sticking out!


Sizing by seat tube dates from when all bikes had horizontal top tubes, and what was most important was not castrating yourself on an involuntary dismount. Fortunately sloping top tube frames are more accommodating of adjustment, so getting the wrong size doesn't matter so much. That's good as, like you say, quoted sizes don't mean very much?


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## Basil.B (20 Jan 2014)

Chris Norton said:


> Same body as me. I have 24" legs and therefore have to have quite small bikes but a longer stem to compensate. I'm 5'6 and am looking at a 48cm Raleigh as my roadie. Much bigger and its all wrong.



I'm 5'6 with 31" legs. Both my bikes have small frames, with 90 mm stems.


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