# Road bike versus Road touring bike



## Welsh wheels (20 Feb 2017)

I'm considering getting a touring bike to replace my oversized road bike. How much of a difference is there performance-wise between road and road tour bikes? Would my average speed come crashing down? Are they more sluggish uphill?


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## Welsh wheels (20 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> It depends a bit on how much luggage you are carrying, among other things.


I'd rarely be carrying luggage, I'd use it just like a road bike really.


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## Hedgemonkey (20 Feb 2017)

The touring bike will be a tad heavier, a little sluggish, will climb up the side of a house, just more slowly. It will be more comfy, take you further on bigger adventures. It would be ashame not to sling some panniers and a tent on it and just f#k off into the wilds for a week.


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## Hugh Manatee (20 Feb 2017)

I'm going to watch this thread with some interest. As I have to sell my sports car and still have a bit of mid life crisis going on, I am thinking of a new bike. My criteria are:

1. Titanium frame.
2. Full compliment of braze on bosses. Rack and mudguards, extra set of bottle bosses.
3. Clearance for up to 32 tyres at a push, 28 more commonly. No big gaps.
4. Discs? More than likely.
5. Slightly longer than standard top tube. There's an ape in my family tree.
6. Square taper BB. Is it me or was that the last type that lasted more than a month or two?

I am going to start researching who can build/supply such a bike.


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## graham bowers (20 Feb 2017)

I've just bought a touring bike (Hewitt Cheviot SE) and have been comparing it to my road bike (Trek Alpha 2.5).

My comparisons have been a simple freewheel test down a local shallow hill and a ride around a 32 mile loop with 1100 ft ascent. 
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/18854608

I initially found the tourer felt a bit sluggish. I was about 2 mph slower on the loop and on the freewheel test it went a shorter distance - hard to quantify in a meaningful way. It came with 32mm Conti Tour Plus tyres at 70 / 80 psi F/R. Max pressure specified is 80 psi.

I changed to 32mm Conti Gatorskin Hardshells and inflated to 80 / 90 psi F/R (Max is 102 psi) and on the freewheel test I went exactly the same distance as the roadbike on 25mm hardshells and 90 / 100 psi. I also regained my 2 mph on the loop. I think regaining the speed was partly due to me pushing the pedals harder, because I was enjoying the ride better. I'm quite a lump, 15 stone, so the additional weight of the bike was diluted by my own contribution to the cumulative weight. (I could have specced the Hardshells from the off by the way, I just didn't have the experience to know how much difference to expect).

Summarising, I'm pleasantly surprised that my average speed over the stated terrain is as close to the same that I can't tell the difference.

Hope this helps.

Graham


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## Hedgemonkey (20 Feb 2017)

Hugh Manatee said:


> I'm going to watch this thread with some interest. As I have to sell my sports car and still have a bit of mid life crisis going on, I am thinking of a new bike. My criteria are:
> 
> 1. Titanium frame.
> 2. Full compliment of braze on bosses. Rack and mudguards, extra set of bottle bosses.
> ...



There are some stunning Ti and Steel Audax/ tourers around for sensible money. Spa Cycles Ti would be my choice of Ti and the new Holdsworth Stelvio ( in red ) for steel or for trans world Surly disc Trucker.


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## graham bowers (20 Feb 2017)

Hugh Manatee said:


> 4. Discs? More than likely.


I think discs may be the smart choice. I have Tektro CR720 Cantis on my new tourer and out of the box they were dreadful compared to the Ultegra calipers on my road bike and the cantis I've had on old mtb's (when well set up). I replaced the pads on the tourer with koolstop salmons - a pretty standard mod -and the difference was amazing. But not as good as the xtr discs on my best mtb or the ultegra calipers.


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## mustang1 (20 Feb 2017)

I think you'll notice a slight difference in speed. it won't make as much of a difference to your average speed from point to point.

I'm comparing my cx bike to the road bike. The road bike was definitely faster. Acceleration, cruising speed, max speed, all faster on the road bike. The average speed wasn't much slower, but still slower, point to point. (this is with wider road tyres).


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## Drago (20 Feb 2017)

Enjoy the comfort of the tourer, or split the difference and consider one of the more relaxed Sportive bikes.


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## Welsh wheels (20 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> Why a touring bike then, rather than a road bike that is the right size for you?


I'm saving for a new road bike, but came across a cheap second-hand touring bike that matches my current budget for a new bike. Lack of patience really I guess.


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## Yellow Saddle (20 Feb 2017)

mustang1 said:


> I think you'll notice a slight difference in speed. it won't make as much of a difference to your average speed from point to point.
> 
> I'm comparing my cx bike to the road bike. The road bike was definitely faster. Acceleration, cruising speed, max speed, all faster on the road bike. The average speed wasn't much slower, but still slower, point to point. (this is with wider road tyres).



Pardon me, but surely you can spot the contradictions in your claims?


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## Ian H (20 Feb 2017)

There's an almost infinite gradation from road to touring bike. Particularly if you can spec a bespoke frame. Mine tend to be 'fast touring'—road angles, a bit higher at the front (sportif-style, I suppose) and eyes/clearance for mudguards and rack.


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## Moodyman (20 Feb 2017)

A tourer doesn't have the right to be as fast as a road bike, but they are, and often can be quicker.

It's the comfort factor. When you're comfortable you spend less effort saving your wrists and backside from the road and more effort into riding.


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## DanZac (20 Feb 2017)

As @Ian H says there are a fair few steps between full on road and full spec tourer. Ive got a Spa steel Audax which fills the gap nicely. Bit more relaxed and comfy than a full on road bike but fast enough when you put a bit of effort in, full mudguards, handbuilt wheels, full 105 or sram apex, 28c tyres at a push and under £1000. Whats not to like!


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## Cuchilo (20 Feb 2017)

Ive done a few 100 milers on my Giant TCR and never wished for anything more from it . Its a pure race machine and distance is what it was made for .


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## bigjim (20 Feb 2017)

My personal issues with touring bikes are the canti brakes. I find them an abomination on a heavily laden touring bike. Hard to keep adjusted, squeal and difficult to set up. I've removed them from two of my tourers and fitted standard sidepulls. I don't need wider than 28c tyres so suits me.


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## briantrumpet (20 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> Why a touring bike then, rather than a road bike that is the right size for you?


As I'm actually very comfortable on my 'road bike', with a fairly 'aggressive' set-up, I'll tour with that. I actually find sitting more upright tiring. This one took me from Paris to Rome:


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## mickle (20 Feb 2017)

I have a deep and profound fondness for cantilevers, probly because they were the technology at the time I found myself working as a mechanic in a bike shop - so I know how to get the most out of them. I miss them. Especially Suntour XC Pro Circa 1989. Or type one XTR. 

*sigh*


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## Globalti (21 Feb 2017)

There's definitely a difference even between an endurance bike like a Roubaix and a racer. The racer will be faster up hills and down, faster on the flat but conversely will usually be stiffer and less comfortable on long runs. As the owner of a Roubaix and a rather naughty Italian climbing bike I can testify to this. 

Maybe the bike industry ought to get together and establish a sporty - endurance - touring grading system where 1 is an uncompromising racer and 10 is the most comfortable tourer.


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## Nebulous (21 Feb 2017)

DanZac said:


> As @Ian H says there are a fair few steps between full on road and full spec tourer. Ive got a Spa steel Audax which fills the gap nicely. Bit more relaxed and comfy than a full on road bike but fast enough when you put a bit of effort in, full mudguards, handbuilt wheels, full 105 or sram apex, 28c tyres at a push and under £1000. Whats not to like!



Stop it! I'm coveting one of them already, without you adding to it. I haven't spoen to them, but going by the website you can't get handmade wheels and 105 below £1000.


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## Nebulous (21 Feb 2017)

I had an allez which was pretty much an aluminium racing bike and an Edinburgh bike tourer with flat pedals, guards, rear rack and an extra 6 kilos. Over a distance of more than 30 miles, particularly in wind, it was hard to separate them timewise / speedwise. Allez was 54 cm frame, tourer was 55, but felt more stretched with a longer top tube. There are so many variables though in weather, wind, air pressure, fitness and condition of the legs that it is difficult to be objective.


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## briantrumpet (21 Feb 2017)

User13710 said:


> The OP was concerned about speed on a touring bike though. Of course we can tour on any bike, but carrying enough luggage is usually a reason for choosing a purpose-built tourer, apart from the more relaxed geometry. How did you carry everything for your trip?


B&Bing it, I had a seatpost-mounted saddle bag: apart from essentials, all I took were T-shirt, shorts & flip flops for the evenings, when my cycling kit got washed. Here I am, fully-laden for Exeter to the Alps in 2012:


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## bigjim (21 Feb 2017)

One thing about a touring bike is the ability to take mudguards. I have never been on tour without hitting substantial rain even if it was only for one day.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> I'd rarely be carrying luggage, I'd use it just like a road bike really.


Perhaps get a road bike then...preferably one that can take proper mudguards and a rack (even with P clips, just in case) 

Don't buy the wrong bike just because it's cheap, and don't buy the wrong size bike because it's cheap. £300-400 will get you a decent second hand roadbike like a Giant Defy, if you sell it on in a year when you've more cash, if you've looked after it, it won't have lost a lot of value


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Perhaps get a road bike then...preferably one that can take proper mudguards and a rack (even with P clips, just in case)
> 
> Don't buy the wrong bike just because it's cheap, and don't buy the wrong size bike because it's cheap. £300-400 will get you a decent second hand roadbike like a Giant Defy, if you sell it on in a year when you've more cash, if you've looked after it, it won't have lost a lot of value


Thanks. Made the latter mistake when I brought my current road bike, never again lol.


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## snorri (21 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> I'm considering getting a touring bike to replace my oversized road bike. How much of a difference is there performance-wise between road and road tour bikes? Would my average speed come crashing down? Are they more sluggish uphill?


As your main priority appears to be performance, I suggest you get a new road bike if the present one is not suiting you.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Thanks. Made the latter mistake when I brought my current road bike, never again lol.


What's your budget? Are you prepared to get a new bike on finance for example?


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> What's your budget? Are you prepared to get a new bike on finance for example?


Pretty low unfortunately (due to being a poor student) , which is the only reason I was considering that particular touring bike as it was only just over £100. I am trying to raise some funds by selling my hybrid but the ideal would be an exchange of my current road bike with one with a smaller frame. But I haven't had any luck there so far. I've had one or two offers but they have been too far away to be practical. I don't think I would consider finance to be honest because I wouldn't be able to commit to paying the amount back at the moment.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Flog it on eBay?


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Flog it on eBay?


Yeah I might end up selling both bikes, but deciding currently if I want to be without a bike for a while if I sold both.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Yeah I might end up selling both bikes, but deciding currently if I want to be without a bike for a while if I sold both.


Why would you be if you have the money to buy?


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Why would you be if you have the money to buy?


Well I wouldn't want to ride them while they're were for sale in case they got scratched or I crashed, and then when I sold them I'd have to hunt around for a while as well.


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Fair enough, sell the roadbike first as that's too big. A scratch won't make much difference to a second hand bikes value. Crashing, just be careful and get insurance in case someone takes you out


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Fair enough, sell the roadbike first as that's too big. A scratch won't make much difference to a second hand bikes value. Crashing, just be careful and get insurance in case someone takes you out


Yeah, I'll probably do that. Thanks for all the advice, appreciate it!


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

[QUOTE 4692367, member: 43827"]You mention your speed coming crashing down and a couple of questions come to mind.

What sort of distances do you ride and are they racing or commuting/leisure/fitness miles. You will no doubt lose a bit of speed moving to a more relaxed geometry bike, so that when racing or chasing Strava segment records it might be important, but on a 10-20 mile commuting or leisure ride you will likely lose less than a few minutes so probably not that important.

There are so many more options than a full tourer that might suit your needs and your budget.[/QUOTE]
I do distances of anything from 20-100 miles, I like to have a good average speed and go reasonably fast uphill and downhill but I don't do serious racing. Mostly I want to travel decent distances at a good average speed and enjoy the process. The bike I have been considering is a secondhand Sacaren tour road bike, which looks to be more on the road bike side than the touring side


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

£100 sounds enough for a bike that could be 10 years old and only £250 to start with

https://www.evanscycles.com/saracen-tour-2007-road-bike-00126767

Not a really much more than a BSO


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## Ian H (21 Feb 2017)

Wheels/tyres and luggage are most of what slows a touring bike down.


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> £100 sounds enough for a bike that could be 10 years old and only £250 to start with
> 
> https://www.evanscycles.com/saracen-tour-2007-road-bike-00126767
> 
> Not a really much more than a BSO


No, it's not that one its this. I thought it looks good but looks can be deceptive I guess


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> No, it's not that one its this. I thought it looks good but looks can be deceptive I guess
> View attachment 339045


Beg pardon. That does look like the same one minus the tyres and the saddle


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

Needs new tape, I wouldn't put my hands anywhere near that!

Zaffiro tyres are average, and that looks like a £15 Madison saddle

I'm sure it's fine as a stopgap and future winter hack, you may not get your money back though

Go test ride it


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Needs new tape, I wouldn't put my hands anywhere near that!


Good point. Cheers


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## MarquisMatsugae (21 Feb 2017)

mickle said:


> Or type one XTR.
> 
> *sigh*


I would have no problem going back to XTR's


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

User46386 said:


> If you want this road bike then I'd offer £80.00.


Thanks, I might try that


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## vickster (21 Feb 2017)

[QUOTE 4692421, member: 43827"]
P.S. vickster, soap and water plus riding gloves will soon get round that problem. I've ridden far worse, but then I am a cheapskate.[/QUOTE]
Not going to happen for the sake of £10 tape  That looks shagged and filthy. Red tape to match the tyres...


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

[QUOTE 4692439, member: 43827"]He's a student. I'm sure he's put his hands on worse places. [/QUOTE]
Cheers


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## Welsh wheels (21 Feb 2017)

I've offered the guy £85 for it, he's advertised it for £130. If he accepts the offer, I might consider buying it. Depends how desperate it is, has been listed for a while. Cheers for the replies everyone.


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## mustang1 (21 Feb 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Pardon me, but surely you can spot the contradictions in your claims?


I do. But I have to tread carefully else this may become a wide tires versus skinny tires thread and then the "but wide tires have lower rolling resistance" brigade won't shut up.


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## boydj (21 Feb 2017)

bigjim said:


> My personal issues with touring bikes are the canti brakes. I find them an abomination on a heavily laden touring bike. Hard to keep adjusted, squeal and difficult to set up. I've removed them from two of my tourers and fitted standard sidepulls. I don't need wider than 28c tyres so suits me.



If you were buying new, though, your tourer would almost certainly come with disc brakes.


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## bonsaibilly (21 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Needs new tape, I wouldn't put my hands anywhere near that!
> 
> Zaffiro tyres are average, and that looks like a £15 Madison saddle
> 
> ...



Be a start and a great frame to restore / upgrade as you go! 

How do you know it will be the right size though, and how do you know your current bike is the wrong size? Sometimes just a change of stem length or a repositioning of parts can make all the difference. 

What bike have you got in what size and how tall are you?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

bonsaibilly said:


> Be a start and a great frame to restore / upgrade as you go!
> 
> How do you know it will be the right size though, and how do you know your current bike is the wrong size? Sometimes just a change of stem length or a repositioning of parts can make all the difference.
> 
> What bike have you got in what size and how tall are you?


Why have you quoted me and not @Welsh wheels ?


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## bonsaibilly (22 Feb 2017)

I'm not sure it matters if it adds to the thread, but I suppose subconsciously it was because your post said it could be a stopgap and not to expect a return on it, whereas I think the OP could fix it up and upgrade it so it would be more than a stopgap.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

bonsaibilly said:


> Be a start and a great frame to restore / upgrade as you go!
> 
> How do you know it will be the right size though, and how do you know your current bike is the wrong size? Sometimes just a change of stem length or a repositioning of parts can make all the difference.
> 
> What bike have you got in what size and how tall are you?


 I have got a 58 cm frame 2016 Dawes Giro 300 and I'm 5'9. It was much too big when I brought it. I hadn't ridden a road bike before, so when I test rode it I assumed that was the correct position, and being an idiot didn't really pay any attention to recommended frame sizes. I changed to a shorter stem, which was an improvement. I have ridden it about for six weeks like that, and it's still not perfect. I'm starting to get consistent back pain so I think it's time to find a smaller frame. I don't know the exact frame size of the Saracen, I only know it's a medium. Haven't decided whether to get it yet though, but if I do I will measure it before I buy it.


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## alecstilleyedye (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Not going to happen for the sake of £10 tape  That looks shagged and filthy. Red tape to match the tyres...


which is fine providing you never need to mend a puncture on the road, at which point they get, and stay, horribly grubby. lesson learned and back to black when the time for new tape came around…


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

alecstilleyedye said:


> which is fine providing you never need to mend a puncture on the road, at which point they get, and stay, horribly grubby. lesson learned and back to black when the time for new tape came around…


Latex gloves? 


Welsh wheels said:


> I have got a 58 cm frame 2016 Dawes Giro 300 and I'm 5'9. It was much too big when I brought it. I hadn't ridden a road bike before, so when I test rode it I assumed that was the correct position, and being an idiot didn't really pay any attention to recommended frame sizes. I changed to a shorter stem, which was an improvement. I have ridden it about for six weeks like that, and it's still not perfect. I'm starting to get consistent back pain so I think it's time to find a smaller frame. I don't know the exact frame size of the Saracen, I only know it's a medium. Haven't decided whether to get it yet though, but if I do I will measure it before I buy it.


Don't measure it - test ride it!


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## alecstilleyedye (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Latex gloves?



tried that, but they tend to get caught between tyre and rim, simultaneously getting in the way and, when ripped, making sod all difference from a cleanliness perspective…


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Latex gloves?
> 
> Don't measure it - test ride it!


I decided not to get that one anyway


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> I decided not to get that one anyway


Why not?


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Why not?


Decided I'd put up with my current bike for a while longer, until I'd enough for a nicer bike


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## si_c (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Decided I'd put up with my current bike for a while longer, until I'd enough for a nicer bike



Sometimes the best way, I've been hitting ebay looking at second hand stuff as my current bike has a few limitations (gearing being one, hills are doable but irritating with a 42-28 smallest gear). In the end I've decided to get a new one when I can afford it.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Decided I'd put up with my current bike for a while longer, until I'd enough for a nicer bike


Does your current bike have an in line or layback seatpost. If the latter, you might find the former could bring you closer to the bars


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Does your current bike have an in line or layback seatpost. If the latter, you might find the former could bring you closer to the bars


If a layback if what I think it is, the saddle is moved forward on the rails as much as it can.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> If a layback if what I think it is, the saddle is moved forward on the rails as much as it can.


No, does the seatpost go straight up or is there a bit of a dog leg with the saddle sort of behind the main part of the seatpost?
What bike is it? Photo?


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> No, does the seatpost go straight up or is there a bit of a dog leg with the saddle sort of behind the main part of the seatpost?
> What bike is it? Photo?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Hmm, not easy to see due to the saddle bag and distance away - what bike is it? Looks like it could be a layback. Is that saddle within the safety marking on the rails looks seriously far forwards?

Giro 300? Does look like you could gain a teeny bit with a straight inline seatpost

https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-giro-300-2016-road-bike-EV238284


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Hmm, not easy to see due to the saddle bag and distance away - what bike is it? Looks like it could be a layback. Is that saddle within the safety marking on the rails looks seriously far forwards?
> 
> Giro 300? Does look like you could gain a teeny bit with a straight inline seatpost
> 
> https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-giro-300-2016-road-bike-EV238284


I'll take a closer picture now and take the bag off


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> I'll take a closer picture now and take the bag off


You can see in the Evans link. need 0mm set back, but need to get right diameter and length

According to Evans link...
Seatpost
27.2mm x 300mm


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Hmm, not easy to see due to the saddle bag and distance away - what bike is it? Looks like it could be a layback. Is that saddle within the safety marking on the rails looks seriously far forwards?
> 
> Giro 300? Does look like you could gain a teeny bit with a straight inline seatpost
> 
> https://www.evanscycles.com/dawes-giro-300-2016-road-bike-EV238284



Yeah it's a Giro 300


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> You can see in the Evans link. need 0mm set back, but need to get right diameter and length
> 
> According to Evans link...
> Seatpost
> 27.2mm x 300mm


 What does 0mm setback mean and how would I go about gaining a little bit?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> What does 0mm setback mean and how would I go about gaining a little bit?


As above, it means the seat post goes straight up, centre of saddle

Like this one - although that's the wrong diameter & length so purely an example

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/pro-koryak-seatpost/rp-prod146725

Whereas this for example has 20mm set back http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-gossamer-sb20-alloy-seatpost/rp-prod152071

Can you see the difference?

Put a wanted ad in Classifieds, see if someone has the right size inline hanging around on the off chance (or try fleabay)


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> As above, it means the seat post goes straight up, centre of saddle
> 
> Like this one - although that's the wrong diameter & length so purely an example
> 
> ...


Thanks. I could be way off here but do you take the saddle off, twist the seatpost round and then put the saddle back on, making it slightly further forward.


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Thanks. I could be way off here but do you take the saddle off, twist the seatpost round and then put the saddle back on, making it slightly further forward.


No


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> No


Does it mean then that no further adjustment can be made with this seatpost, I would need to buy a new seatpost of the inline type?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Does it mean then that no further adjustment can be made with this seatpost, I would need to buy a new seatpost of the inline type?


Yes


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> As above, it means the seat post goes straight up, centre of saddle
> 
> Like this one - although that's the wrong diameter & length so purely an example
> 
> ...


Ok yeah that makes sense


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## mjr (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Thanks. I could be way off here but do you take the saddle off, twist the seatpost round and then put the saddle back on, making it slightly further forward.


No. That trick only works with offset clips on top of old style straight seat pins. If you try it with a setback post, the saddle nose points skywards.


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## bigjim (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> View attachment 339104


That saddle looks like it is tilted back a bit to me. I,d drop the nose a touch.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

bigjim said:


> That saddle looks like it is tilted back a bit to me. I,d drop the nose a touch.


How would I go about going that?


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## vickster (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> How would I go about going that?


Loosen the bolt, wiggle it around until it looks level, check with spirit level (there are apps on IOS and Android if no actual spirit level to hand). It won't do anything to the reach. Do you find the saddle comfortable like that? If so, perhaps leave


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## bigjim (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Loosen the bolt, wiggle it around until it looks level, check with spirit level (there are apps on IOS and Android if no actual spirit level to hand). It won't do anything to the reach. Do you find the saddle comfortable like that? If so, perhaps leave


It would lengthen the reach as you would be leaning back surely. When I have inadvertently had a saddle like that I have. Had a bad back and crotch pressure caused by the awkward position.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

bigjim said:


> It would lengthen the reach as you would be leaning back surely. When I have inadvertently had a saddle like that I have. Had a bad back and crotch pressure caused by the awkward position.


Well I've tilted the saddle so it's pointed down ever so slightly. Took it for a spin down the road and initial impressions are it seems more comfortable.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> Loosen the bolt, wiggle it around until it looks level, check with spirit level (there are apps on IOS and Android if no actual spirit level to hand). It won't do anything to the reach. Do you find the saddle comfortable like that? If so, perhaps leave


I've tilted it now so it's pointing slightly down. That seems more comfortable. Presumably it's fine to have it pointing slightly down, rather than being completely level, if it feels comfortable?


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## bonsaibilly (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> I've tilted it now so it's pointing slightly down. That seems more comfortable. Presumably it's fine to have it pointing slightly down, rather than being completely level, if it feels comfortable?



It's up to you but it's a risk you might give your lower back some gyp and or affect your hands and wrists as being tilted forward will tip you onto the handlebar and also push the saddles rear end into your, er rear end.

By the way it is possibly possible to do what you suggested and rotate the seat post through 180 degrees and then adjust the line and tilt of the saddle to level, if you have a saddle clamp that allows enough tilting. I tried it once. But I don't recommend it with that seat post as it will put you in a very racy position.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Feb 2017)

bonsaibilly said:


> It's up to you but it's a risk you might give your lower back some gyp and or affect your hands and wrists as being tilted forward will tip you onto the handlebar and also push the saddles rear end into your, er rear end.
> 
> By the way it is possibly possible to do what you suggested and rotate the seat post through 180 degrees and then adjust the line and tilt of the saddle to level, if you have a saddle clamp that allows enough tilting. I tried it once. But I don't recommend it with that seat post as it will put you in a very racy position.


Well having it as it was before was giving my lower back some gyp. I can always change it back if it's bad i guess


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## Spiderweb (22 Feb 2017)

The Saracen tour you are looking at is not a touring bike it's an entry level road bike. It has no mounts for racks, no mount for rear mudguards and it's certainly not geared for hills/touring. It does look in good condition and if you can get it for £85 then it's a decent price. The bar tape looks ok, I don't think it's filthy as it wouldn't have such an even colour, I think a greyish colour tape has been used.
There is one for sale on eBay, it will never achieve what the seller wants but the pictures are clear and you can see what components it has, it's all pretty basic, it'll be heavy but for £85 it's worth a punt, if you find it unsuitable then you should get your money back.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=222393804151&globalID=EBAY-GB
There is another Saracen here;
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=302230344110&globalID=EBAY-GB


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## bonsaibilly (22 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Well having it as it was before was giving my lower back some gyp. I can always change it back if it's bad i guess



Just level it.


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## vickster (23 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Well having it as it was before was giving my lower back some gyp. I can always change it back if it's bad i guess


That's probably also down to the bike being too big and being overstretched. But anything is worth a try. Have you also flipped the stem to bring the bars up a bit?


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## vickster (23 Feb 2017)

Spiderweb said:


> The Saracen tour you are looking at is not a touring bike it's an entry level road bike. It has no mounts for racks, no mount for rear mudguards and it's certainly not geared for hills/touring. It does look in good condition and if you can get it for £85 then it's a decent price. The bar tape looks ok, I don't think it's filthy as it wouldn't have such an even colour, I think a greyish colour tape has been used.
> There is one for sale on eBay, it will never achieve what the seller wants but the pictures are clear and you can see what components it has, it's all pretty basic, it'll be heavy but for £85 it's worth a punt, if you find it unsuitable then you should get your money back.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=222393804151&globalID=EBAY-GB
> There is another Saracen here;
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=302230344110&globalID=EBAY-GB


He's decided against it (post #71)


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## bigjim (23 Feb 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Well having it as it was before was giving my lower back some gyp. I can always change it back if it's bad i guess


The thing about lower back and weight on hands might have some merit, although I can't see the lower back thing. But we are all different and much of bike fit is based on the norm for that skeleton. Froome has his seat lower than the accepted position for his frame. So do I. It is what works for you.


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## Welsh wheels (23 Feb 2017)

vickster said:


> That's probably also down to the bike being too big and being overstretched. But anything is worth a try. Have you also flipped the stem to bring the bars up a bit?


I think the stem is already flipped


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