# Tour de France 2017 ***SPOILERS***



## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

With less than three weeks to go teams will be looking to finalise their riders and many will be concerned or undecided about their line-ups. Orica, for example have Chavez, who didn't show much on his return and Simon Yates who got dropped on several climbs - should they revert to Adam Yates? Froome, Contador and Valverde didn't inspire, whilst Fuglsang and Porte were superb and Buchmann made a big breakthrough.


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## Milkfloat (12 Jun 2017)

I am struggling to pick anyone in the top 3, too many of my favourites seem to be struggling. Hopefully this will make the race more interesting and less of a procession.


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## jarlrmai (12 Jun 2017)

Man a wide open race would be awesome


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## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

There's a few riders who won't fancy this!


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## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

Looks like a night stage


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## smutchin (12 Jun 2017)

Fuglsang can't be ruled out as a genuine contender after his performance in the Dauphiné. 

Dan Martin could be in the mix as well. He's climbing very strongly and shouldn't lose too much time in the two short time trials. 

Bardet will be an interesting one to watch - his time-trialling is still shocking but there are plenty of lumpy bits where he should shine.

Shame we won't be seeing Alaphilippe - this Tour could have been made for him. 

Stage 13 looks like it could be a humdinger - 101km with three 1st cat climbs and then downhill all the way to the finish.


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## rich p (12 Jun 2017)

@brommers - might be worth changing the title to *Tour de France 2017 ***SPOILERS*** 
*
It will save someone else starting the thread!


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## rich p (12 Jun 2017)

S Yates was slightly disappointing but he has time on his side.
It seems as if it will be an open race, and it could well be if Dan Martin gets his wish, and people ignore reputations, and race aggressively. 
I'd rule out Contador and Valverde (the latter is there to help Quintana, in theory).
Hard to spot the differences in current condition and form between Quintana, Froome, Bardet, Martin, Fuglsang et al.


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## ColinJ (12 Jun 2017)

A friend has just suggested that maybe Froome is timing his form to come on during the Tour this year and then last through for a serious go at the Vuelta too, rather than his more usual Dauphine & Tour, and starting to get tired in the Vuelta. That actually sounds plausible.


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## Adam4868 (12 Jun 2017)

Been a great giro and dauphine so far.I see Froome has said Porte will be favourite for the Tour.I agree he was great in dauphine.It's a tough choice as I wouldn't like to dismiss any of the GC favourites.I still wouldn't back against Froome,guarantee he will be in top form by July and a amazing team with him,stronger than BMC ? I think so.Tactically.Porte had no team yesterday which made it a great comeback ride,I think he just took his eye of the race and got left.Fuslgand,a deserved winner showed how strong he was yesterday.Looking forward to it.


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## jarlrmai (12 Jun 2017)

Maybe Sky know Porte's mind and this is just to put the pressure on, coming into the Tour as favourite.


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## dragon72 (12 Jun 2017)

Could be mindgames from Froome, lulling the others into a false sense of security so they don't man-mark him all the way round France. 
Or maybe not. I think he looked like he was genuinely struggling to keep up in the CdD.
If that's the case, he's not go much time to recover his mojo.
As mentioned by Adam4868 above, Froome does have the best team for support. And it will be a proper A team for the Grande Boucle.


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## smutchin (12 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I go wildly out on a limb and back Sagan for the green jersey. You never know ...



It would be nice if he at least had a challenger this year - maybe Matthews?


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## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> @brommers - might be worth changing the title to *Tour de France 2017 ***SPOILERS***
> *
> It will save someone else starting the thread!


Done


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## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

GVA would be another possibility for the green jersey if he is entered. Fabio Felline?


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## brommers (12 Jun 2017)

According to an article in Cycling News Mikel Landa thinks he will be riding the TdF. Obviously, Thomas does as well. I can't see them both going as support rider/plan B to Froome unless Wout Poels doesn't make it.
For what it's worth - my 9 for Sky: Froome, Thomas, Poels/Nieve, SL Henao, Stannard, Rowe, Kennaugh, Kwiatkowski and Kiryienka


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## mirrorman (12 Jun 2017)

Aru must be in with a chance?


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## Adam4868 (12 Jun 2017)

mirrorman said:


> Aru must be in with a chance?


As leader or Fuglsang ?


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## mirrorman (12 Jun 2017)

Must be leader ,already a grand tour winner gives him that advantage


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## Adam4868 (12 Jun 2017)

Bitter ?
http://amp.timeinc.net/cyclingweekl...et-that-for-july-335219?xid=amp-cyclingweekly


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## dragon72 (12 Jun 2017)

Maybe, even after 15 or so years of following the sport, I just don't get the subtleties of pushbike racing.
I can understand complaining about rivals if there has been some sort of blocking, or taking advantage of clear misfortune. I can also understand moaning about fellow members of a small group not doing their fair share on the front to keep the pace high.
But I just can't see what Porte's beef is in this case. 
Sounds like Porte is saying he's angry because Froome and others accelerated leaving him isolated on the climb? 
Well, boo hoo, Richie. You should have ridden as fast or faster than your rivals. 
Only teammates can leave you isolated, not your rivals - that's their job, no?
Or am I missing something?


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## Adam4868 (12 Jun 2017)

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.(yellow jersey).


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## jarlrmai (13 Jun 2017)

10 seconds bonus is what won it for Fuglsang.

So reverse the bonuses on that stage. and he would have won I think.

Actually maybe not...

It's too early for win bonus GC calculations.


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## jarlrmai (13 Jun 2017)

CdD Time bonuses 10-6-4 seconds

10 seconds in it for GC

if Porte wins on Mont du Chat he gets 10 seconds and not 6 so 4 seconds extra
But Fuglsang gets 6 instead of 10 so 4 seconds less

8 seconds the difference Fugls wins by 2 seconds.

Check my working.


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## smutchin (13 Jun 2017)

Porte needs to remember that they're not team-mates any more. He also seemed to forget this last year on stage 19 when he was towing Froome up the final climb after his fall.


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## Beebo (13 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Ok, here's a stupid and OT question about bike racing. The race doesn't start for a few weeks so what's the harm?
> 
> At hill climbing speeds, is the drafting effect all that significant? Or is the effect of one rider towing another up a climb primarily a pacing/psychological one? If it is, then surely the availability of stats on the stem, and the discipline of pro riders should mean that effect is pretty small?


depends how slow they are going, but i know that i can draft at 12 mph and obtain some benefit on the flat, so the same would happen for a pro going up hill.
The team Sky tactic of riding a high tempo offers drafting opportunities but cancels out the chances of numerous attacks.


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## ColinJ (13 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Bitter ?
> http://amp.timeinc.net/cyclingweekl...et-that-for-july-335219?xid=amp-cyclingweekly


Porte was having a whinge in the post-race interview that they showed on ITV4. Ok, he was disappointed, but he came across badly. He seemed to think that Froome should have given up on his own ambitions and let him win because they used to be teammates!


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## rich p (13 Jun 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Porte was having a whinge in the post-race interview that they showed on ITV4. Ok, he was disappointed, but he came across badly. He seemed to think that Froome should have given up on his own ambitions and let him win because they used to be teammates!


I didn't see that but saw a report saying he thought the other teams were out to get him.
Of course they bloody well were...he was in yellow FFS. Froome, Fuglsang, ValvPiti, Aru all attacked him in aggressive, proper racing. Tit.


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## smutchin (13 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> At hill climbing speeds, is the drafting effect all that significant?



At the pros' hill climbing speeds, yes. 

At my hill climbing speeds, not so much.


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## Adam4868 (13 Jun 2017)

Pretty ironic from Porte I think,seeing as he's rode with sky and knows what pressure Froome has come under.Not just from other riders either ! I guess biased as I like Froome but really as the leader of the race(Porte) what do you expect,everyone's going to wait for you ?


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## ColinJ (13 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> I didn't see that but saw a report saying he thought the other teams were out to get him.


I didn't see the whole stage but I know that the opposition went for it from the start, which was exactly what they had to do, and what Porte must have known they would do. The problem for him wasn't that the rotters didn't let him win, but that his own team were not strong enough to help him hold on to those crucial 10 seconds. 

Porte basically moaned (in quite a childish tone, I thought) that his rivals were more interested in stopping him winning than in securing their own positions. Why settle for second, third (whatever) when you could have a go and _improve_ your position? In Froome's case, he had a realistic chance of winning and went for it.


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## Crackle (13 Jun 2017)

Porte has always struck me as a bit of a tit.


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## brommers (13 Jun 2017)

Strong team from Sky at the Route du Sud - la Depeche du Midi. Be interesting to see if Wout Poels is racing fit
enough to start in the TdF
.. ELISSONDE Kenny
.. GOLAS Michal
.. HENAO Sergio Luis
.. MOSCON Gianni
.. POELS Wout
.. STANNARD Ian
.. THOMAS Geraint
.. VIVIANI Elia


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## brommers (13 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Pretty ironic from Porte I think,seeing as he's rode with sky and knows what pressure Froome has come under.Not just from other riders either ! I guess biased as I like Froome but really as the leader of the race(Porte) what do you expect,everyone's going to wait for you ?[/QUOTE]


Perhaps he was dreaming that it was the final stage of the TdF.


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## Milzy (13 Jun 2017)

I'm not sure Chris Froome can win it again. I have a feeling he'll have bad luck and maybe crash. I also don't think the little Columbian has what it takes either even if C.F withdrew.
Who else could be a contender? Contador?


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## rich p (13 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> Porte .... Tit.





Crackle said:


> Porte has always struck me as a bit of a tit.



Uncanny...


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## Crackle (13 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> Uncanny...


Too lazy to quote but I was agreeing with you.....Tit.


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## rich p (13 Jun 2017)

Crackle said:


> Too lazy to quote but I was agreeing with you.....Tit.


To be honest, I've always thought I was a tit too.


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## gavroche (13 Jun 2017)

I see Tom Dumoulin as a serious contender. He can climb, time trial and is on form. I don't think Quintana will do it, he seems to lack ambition. Richie Porte is strong and has lots of TdF experience. Should be a very interesting race as many riders are close .


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## Adam4868 (13 Jun 2017)

gavroche said:


> I see Tom Dumoulin as a serious contender. He can climb, time trial and is on form. I don't think Quintana will do it, he seems to lack ambition. Richie Porte is strong and has lots of TdF experience. Should be a very interesting race as many riders are close .


 I didn't think Domoulin was in it ?


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## gavroche (13 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I didn't think Domoulin was in it ?


I thought he was but I could be wrong.


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## Adam4868 (13 Jun 2017)

gavroche said:


> I thought he was but I could be wrong.


He ruled the Tour out before the giro,i doubt he's changed his mind.


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## chappers1983 (14 Jun 2017)

Dumoulin isn't racing the tour, and good job too given how he cracked on the Tour de Suisse yesterday (can't criticise him for that though after his exertions on the Giro).

Could actually be quite an open TdF for once. Froome doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders, Quintana has the Giro still in his legs so won't be as fresh as others, Contador hasn't looked great in the build up, Porte is on form but still has the threat of having that one really bad day hanging over him. Astana have an interesting leadership problem with Aru's change of plans.

Could make for an entertaining race!


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## brommers (14 Jun 2017)

Saturday's stage of the Route du Sud. A real test for Wout Poels et al.







I like the place where they've put the second sprint


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2017)

On the spoiler question ... shouldn't the spoilers only be for the TdF or races completed some time ago? I am playing catch-up on the TdS and wasn't expecting spoilers for that race in here while it is still underway!


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## brommers (14 Jun 2017)

I agree that the bit about that rider shouldn't have been on here, as some people won't have seen the TdS results or highlights at the time of posting.


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## 400bhp (14 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> He ruled the Tour out before the giro,i doubt he's changed his mind.



And he got dropped yesterday in the Tour De Suisse.


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## HF2300 (14 Jun 2017)

ColinJ said:


> On the spoiler question ... shouldn't the spoilers only be for the TdF or races completed some time ago? I am playing catch-up on the TdS and wasn't expecting spoilers for that race in here while it is still underway!



Can't be TdF time. I haven't caught up with the Dauphine yet.


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## dragon72 (14 Jun 2017)

This could be an interesting year with lots of strong contenders. It may come down to very small gaps at the end between podium finishers.
What's intriguing is that there are at least 3 teams where there appear to be more than one rider who could finish high up in GC. Astana with Aru/Fuglsang; Movi with Quintana/Valverde; Sky with Froome/Thomas. All of them are potential podium riders.


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## Dayvo (14 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I didn't think Domoulin was in it ?



You've got to be in it to win it!


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## HF2300 (14 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Froome's key advantage has been his team. He's looked highly fallible when the team have gone awol over recent years, and Sky have looked the strongest TdF team over the past few years, especially when motoring up long climbs. Has that changed? If not, I'd say Froome is still favourite.
> 
> Richie Porte will either have a bad day, or a ludicrous stroke of bad luck, or both. Probably several times.
> 
> OK, laugh at my attempt to say something sensible. I'll go back to making stupid puns and wittering on about pork pies.


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## Milzy (14 Jun 2017)

Fabio Aru is at 17/1 I might put £10 on him. Valverde is good but a tad off the cutting edge of form for a tour win. I just can't see the first 3 favourites doing it and after them they're all big odds.


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## Adam4868 (14 Jun 2017)

Milzy said:


> Fabio Aru is at 17/1 I might put £10 on him. Valverde is good but a tad off the cutting edge of form for a tour win. I just can't see the first 3 favourites doing it and after them they're all big odds.


Sure you'd get better odds on him winning


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## rich p (20 Jun 2017)

I think I just saw a Robbie Hatch tweet that there's live Eurosport coverage all day. That'll be great but a monumental time waster.
It might also mean that RH has got the gig and we won't have to tolerate that prat Kirby. Fingers crossed!


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## smutchin (20 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> I think I just saw a Robbie Hatch tweet that there's live Eurosport coverage all day. That'll be great but a monumental time waster.
> It might also mean that RH has got the gig and we won't have to tolerate that prat Kirby. Fingers crossed!



Coverage of the whole stage might also mean that they have both commentators working in shifts.


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## rich p (20 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> One talks utter bollocks until he begins to flag, then flicks his elbow (or a similar commentator signal) and the other takes over while the first grabs a breather in the slipstream. When we get to particularly interesting chateaux and so forth one commentator will act as the lead-out providing general geographic and historical background while the other will take over with the knockout facts just as the chateau comes into shot.


I think that Johnny Double-Barrell does the chateau stuff with a daily recipe!


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## brommers (20 Jun 2017)

I think it's quite informative and actually enjoy it.


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## rich p (20 Jun 2017)

brommers said:


> I think it's quite informative and actually enjoy it.


...except when it's CK doing it!


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## 400bhp (20 Jun 2017)

Yep, they are covering each stage from KM 0.

Hopefully it's gonna be a good tour, last year felt a bit processional.


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## MasterDabber (20 Jun 2017)

Don't know if this has already been posted (haven't read the whole thread) but.... 2017 Roadbook available in English here..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ePVIhF7aPxRjdtVUZYTlBIaU0/view


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## rich p (22 Jun 2017)

Landa won't be happy! Kennaugh hasn't quite done enough I suppose and Stannard has been ill, apparently. It looks a pretty strong team.


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## Adam4868 (22 Jun 2017)

Good team,as you say I guess Landa wanted a crack at something himself,Vuelta ? No Pouls. Should be a good Tour though,maybe a last chance for quite a few.


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## Crackle (22 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Have we had this yet?
> Sky Team:Chris Froome (Gbr), Geraint Thomas (Gbr), Mikel Landa (Spa), Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol), Christian Knees (Ger), Vasil Kiryienka (Blr), Mikel Nieve (Spa), Sergio Henao (Col), Luke Rowe (Gbr) and Christian Knees (Ger).
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tea...wiatkowski-and-landa-in-tour-de-france-squad/


Knees is so good he's in twice!


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## Adam4868 (22 Jun 2017)

Crackle said:


> Knees is so good he's in twice!


Most have two knees....I'll get me coat


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## roadrash (22 Jun 2017)

I bought the official tour de france programme as I do every year, once again it has three small printed photo postcards inside , no surprise that one of them is of froome..........running, 
the programme seems to made with inferior paper to recent years, less of a glossy feel to it , rather than keep the price at a tenner I wish they would have used quality paper and put the price up a bit.


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## Adam4868 (22 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> I bought the official tour de france programme as I do every year, once again it has three small printed photo postcards inside , no surprise that one of them is of froome..........running,
> the programme seems to made with inferior paper to recent years, less of a glossy feel to it , rather than keep the price at a tenner I wish they would have used quality paper and put the price up a bit.


Was my father's day pressie of kids,bottle of red from Mrs which she has more than helped me drink.Of all the cycling pics to choose they picked Froome running !


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> I bought the official tour de france programme as I do every year, once again it has three small printed photo postcards inside , no surprise that one of them is of froome..........running,
> the programme seems to made with inferior paper to recent years, less of a glossy feel to it , rather than keep the price at a tenner I wish they would have used quality paper and put the price up a bit.


Is there a wall poster size route map with it?


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## Adam4868 (22 Jun 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Is there a wall poster size route map with it?


Sure there is yes,I'll have a look later if you want


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## roadrash (22 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Sure there is yes,I'll have a look later if you want



yes there is .


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## Adam4868 (22 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> yes there is .


Didn't bother with route map,just put my poster of Chris above the fireplace.


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> yes there is .


I'll get one then, the poster usually goes on the back of the toilet door for the duration so it can be perused at leisure.


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## Boon 51 (22 Jun 2017)

Be nice if a Chris Horner type turns up..


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## Milzy (22 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> I think I just saw a Robbie Hatch tweet that there's live Eurosport coverage all day. That'll be great but a monumental time waster.
> It might also mean that RH has got the gig and we won't have to tolerate that prat Kirby. Fingers crossed!


Do you think Kirby is smarmy??


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## rich p (22 Jun 2017)

Milzy said:


> Do you think Kirby is smarmy??


I think he's probably a genuinely nice bloke and will make a great grandad one day.
It's just that he's an incompetent, ignorant, uninformed, shouty commentator.


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## roadrash (22 Jun 2017)

could be worse ....imagine ligget and Kirby together


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## rich p (22 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> could be worse ....imagine ligget and Kirby together


A marriage made in heaven...

...when the divorce from Paul comes through!


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## rich p (23 Jun 2017)

BMC have announced their team and are completely behind Richie Porte's attempt on the GC...

...apart from GVA being free to hunt for stage wins. 

A sign of an enterprising strategy or a mixed message?


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## brommers (23 Jun 2017)

Thursday 29th Tour de France presentation Eurosport 5.15pm


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Has anyone mentioned how "crap" the stages are/route is?


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Has anyone mentioned how "crap" the stages are/route is?



Dunno. Is it?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Dunno. Is it?


I had a look last night and it's not setting my heather on fire. A bit 'meh' - I cannot recall my specific issues (I'll have another look tonight and summarise them, unless I change my view in which case I'll summarise that...) but overall I was left thinking it's a poor effort. The format and timing of mountains was one of my gripes, not entirely sure why but I'm sure it will come flooding back later.


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2017)

The stage 20 TT is the one that bothers me. Only 22.5km but that might be long enough to make a difference to the GC and negate whatever racing has happened in the previous days.

Three summit finishes: 5, 12 & 18. Last mountain stage is 18, which finishes on the Col d'Izoard.

Probably the toughest stage is 9, 181.5km with 3 HC climbs, but then there's a descent off the Mont du Chat and a flat run to the finish.

I'll reserve judgment until we see how the racing pans out. A lot will depend on the form of Quintana and Froome, whether Richie Porte avoids having his customary off day, and whether the likes of Dan Martin, Chaves and Bardet can avoid losing too much time in the TTs.

Hoping for a good showing from Dan Martin. It's a real shame Alaphilippe won't be there because this looks like a good course for him.


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## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Shorter punchier climbs,there's quite a few of the iconic climbs left out alpe d huez,vonteux if i remember right.I recall them saying they wanted a more open race,not controlled ? Hard to do if you've a nine man team.Sky have a lot of good climbers so there well prepared.


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## rich p (23 Jun 2017)

It has the potential to be more open, less processional (see posts above) and hopefully more interesting. 
It might also need the riders in with an outside chance of a win to animate the race and challenge the status quo. 
Dan Martin, Bardet, Contador, Fuglsang etc.
Given their patchy form compared to previous years, it could be the best course and opportunity for them to challenge Froome and Quintana.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2017)

Sounds a bit more like a Vuelta type of route and that's produced some great racing over the last few years.


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## rich p (23 Jun 2017)

It shows how much our media coverage is parochial because I was completely unaware that the self-appointed nobber, Antoine Vayer had implied that Bardet was doped in last years tour. Twat.
I wonder if the French fans will spit at him this year!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bardet-champions-performance-over-result-at-tour-de-france/


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> It shows how much our media coverage is parochial because I was completely unaware that the self-appointed nobber, Antoine Vayer had implied that Bardet was doped in last years tour. Twat.
> I wonder if the French fans will spit at him this year!
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/(bardet-champions-performance-over-result-at-tour-de-france/


I'm going to chuck a tenner on him (25/1), you never know.


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## rich p (23 Jun 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'm going to chuck a tenner on him (25/1), you never know.


Good odds and who knows who'll fall off!


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> Good odds and who knows who'll fall off!


Bardet probably, now I've jinxed him.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2017)

Apart from the cash value of him winning, can you imagine how cycling loved up and happy the French would be when we're touring there a few days after the finish.


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## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Allways liked Bardet as a rider,good climber,even better descending.Just hope he's worked on his TT.


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2017)

Antoine Vayer really is a cock.


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## smutchin (23 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Just hope he's worked on his TT.



Supposedly he has been working on it but... did you see the Dauphiné?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> I had a look last night and it's not setting my heather on fire. A bit 'meh' - I cannot recall my specific issues (I'll have another look tonight and summarise them, unless I change my view in which case I'll summarise that...) but overall I was left thinking it's a poor effort. The format and timing of mountains was one of my gripes, not entirely sure why but I'm sure it will come flooding back later.


Right, it all came flooding back when I had another look...

The first week is going to be a dullfest. 5 x flat stages of over 200km on top of the opening 14km TT; only the stage which finishes at La Planche des Belles Filles looks in any way interesting. As previously stated the first mountain stage involves a few climbs and then finishes on downhill and flat, which dulls my mind. I have no idea why they'd need a rest day after that dullfest, maybe to sleep off the boredom?

Then another couple of flat stages, then a decent enough looking "mountain" stage (on a weekday - FFS!) followed by a "mountain" stage that finishes on the flat, then 2 half-assed "medium" (barely) mountain stages before another day off for a snooze (I hope someone wakes me up as I'll have dozed off a while ago)

And then 3 out of the last 6 stages are fecking sprint stages, and one of them is a short ITT. And the 2 stages that look like they might be ok are on a weekday again.

FFS!


@rich p and @Dayvo could have come up with a better route if they'd painter a spider's legs with black ink and let it run about a map of France.


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2017)

Aru is weaker at TT but I think he'll do better than bardet.


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## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Supposedly he has been working on it but... did you see the Dauphiné?


Yes watched it,I guess the only plus is there short TTs.


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## rich p (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Right, it all came flooding back when I had another look...
> 
> The first week is going to be a dullfest. 5 x flat stages of over 200km on top of the opening 14km TT; only the stage which finishes at La Planche des Belles Filles looks in any way interesting. As previously stated the first mountain stage involves a few climbs and then finishes on downhill and flat, which dulls my mind. I have no idea why they'd need a rest day after that dullfest, maybe to sleep off the boredom?
> 
> ...


 Who knows, we may be pleasantly surprised. It may just possibly be that it won't be a slugfest of either Movistar or Sky sucking the life out of the opposition.


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## Boon 51 (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Right, it all came flooding back when I had another look...
> 
> The first week is going to be a dullfest. 5 x flat stages of over 200km on top of the opening 14km TT; only the stage which finishes at La Planche des Belles Filles looks in any way interesting. As previously stated the first mountain stage involves a few climbs and then finishes on downhill and flat, which dulls my mind. I have no idea why they'd need a rest day after that dullfest, maybe to sleep off the boredom?
> 
> ...




Too many sprint stages by far...


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Yes think there's 8/9 sprint stages.I think they have tried to make the course so it will encourage attacks.Not as many long mountain finishes where a team can control it.Stage 9 looks brutal though !


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> @rich p and @Dayvo could have come up with a better route if they'd painter a spider's legs with black ink and let it run about a map of France.




Wassup? Picked your fantasy team and realised that it'll be crap regardless of the 21 stages! They might be good on the last day, though, just going round and round in circles at the Champs-Élysées, if you've got any riders left, that is.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Wassup? Picked your fantasy team and realised that it'll be crap regardless of the 21 stages! They might be good on the last day, though, just going round and round in circles at the Champs-Élysées, if you've got any riders left, that is.


As long as you don't get lucky again


----------



## Shadow (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Right, it all came flooding back when I had another look...


Right, so you won't be watching,reading or listening about any of it. What will you with the time? Maybe you could spend the 3 weeks coming up with a better route and then we can all play PTP!!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Too many sprint stages by far...





Adam4868 said:


> Yes think there's 8/9 sprint stages.I think they have tried to make the course so it will encourage attacks.Not as many long mountain finishes where a team can control it.Stage 9 looks brutal though !



I suppose for me it's a mix of too many long dull stages that will end in sprints, not enough "medium mountain" stages that will see a bit of action, and, most of all, it just ain't a tough parcours at all. That "no team will take control" means that no team will see any reason to; our winner might come from an effort on 1 or 2 stages. And I think it might have been designed so Sagan does not have it as easy for Green other than anything else.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Shadow said:


> Right, so you won't be watching,reading or listening about any of it. What will you with the time? Maybe you could spend the 3 weeks coming up with a better route and then we can all play PTP!!!


You can all play PTP anytime, no need to wait for a decent event.

I shall, of course, be watching and blabbering about it. But I think it's a dull parcours.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> I suppose for me it's a mix of too many long dull stages that will end in sprints, not enough "medium mountain" stages that will see a bit of action, and, most of all, it just ain't a tough parcours at all. That "no team will take control" means that no team will see any reason to; our winner might come from an effort on 1 or 2 stages. And I think it might have been designed so Sagan does not have it as easy for Green other than anything else.


Oh, and I should have added - as far as I am aware every stage will be covered from start to finish. What a waste of an opportunity to have a parcours that will capture people's imaginations, throw up the unexpected, have us gripped, etc. 

Start > 200km of waffling pish> the end.


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## Milzy (23 Jun 2017)

Where's the link to the cc fantasy league??


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Milzy said:


> Where's the link to the cc fantasy league??


https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/velogames-tdf-fantasy-league.220217/


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Michael Matthews green jersey 15/1 or Nibali 150/1 ? Dare I risk a quid.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Michael Matthews green jersey 15/1 or Nibali 150/1 ? Dare I risk a quid.


Matthews will not win Green, he'll be nowhere near it. 
Nibali will not win anything.


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Matthews will not win Green, he'll be nowhere near it.
> Nibali will not win anything.


I'd agree unless.......wishful thinking.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I'd agree unless.......wishful thinking.


Kittel might get Green.
Cav is unlikely to.
Nor is Greipel.
Sagan might have to show more at the end than he has had to in the past.

I've not seen any odds as yet, although I've not been looking.

Edit - just looked:
Sagan 4/7
Kittel 9/4
G'wegen 14/1
Greipel 14/1
Demare 14/1
Matthews 18/1
Cav 20/1

Out of that, I'd go for Demare if I was going to stick a quid on...each way


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Kittel might get Green.
> Cav is unlikely to.
> Nor is Greipel.
> Sagan might have to show more at the end than he has had to in the past.
> ...


I'd only.have a couple of quid on outsiders for fun.Think I saw odds of 125/1 on Dan Martin and Landa.Is Cav even going ? I guess he could do the first week and piss off.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I'd only.have a couple of quid on outsiders for fun.Think I saw odds of 125/1 on Dan Martin and Landa.Is Cav even going ? I guess he could do the first week and piss off.


I reckon Cav will be there. 

Froome is 7/4 to not be in top 3, which might be good odds.
Porte at 7/4 to win might be worth a punt.
Valverde at 7/2 to finish in top 3 looks best option IMO.


----------



## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

Are all these odds shown at all bookies?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Are all these odds shown at all bookies?


Those were taken from bet365, as I just happened to be on the site; not all bookies off the same markets or the same odds, best to have a look around - it's likely to be the middle of the week before more markets start to appear once more teams confirm riders and the bookies work out where the money is likely to be going.


----------



## rich p (24 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Porte at 7/4 to win might be worth a punt.


A double with Cilic to win Wimbledon.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> A double with Cilic to win Wimbledon.


I've never heard of him/her, but funnily enough when I went to bet365 to see what the odds were (or indeed if he/she existed), the live in-play visuals were of him playing at ATP Queens (whatever that is).


Spoiler: Spoiler



He's currently winning 5-2


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Are all these odds shown at all bookies?


Other bookies are available 
https://m.oddschecker.com/m/cycling


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## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

I've just had a look on Bet365 but couldn't find cycling.. Tell I don't bet much


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## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Other bookies are available
> https://m.oddschecker.com/m/cycling



Just had a look at these prices and Fuglsang is 18/i is that right.. seems a very good bet.


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

I've shown you the bookies,just don't ask for tips.Im always skint !


----------



## screenman (24 Jun 2017)

I have just got 500-1 off of a mate for Obree to win.


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## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I've shown you the bookies,just don't ask for tips.Im always skint !



Last bet I had was on Red Rum.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Last bet I had was on Red Rum.


Fair chance that you'll have won it then


----------



## rich p (24 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> I've never heard of him/her


I've never heard of those women cyclists I have to pinstick...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> I've never heard of those women cyclists I have to pinstick...


Look upon me as an educator and a liberator.


----------



## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Fair chance that you'll have won it then



Not if my lottery tickets are anything to go by..


----------



## Milzy (24 Jun 2017)

I have put 4 bets on for top 3 finishes. I could win 3 and one be a sacrifice. If I just win only 1 I'll still be up enough. If I lose all the bets I'd be annoyed and surprised.


----------



## roadrash (24 Jun 2017)

I'm still trying to decide what bets to put on, I keep thinking ive made up my mind then say feck it scrap that and start again


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

My failure with betting is the same as fantasy league,I bet with who I like not who will actually have a chance !


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## roadrash (24 Jun 2017)

my daughter works in the local bet fred , I asked her "how many people have you served with tour de france bets, ..........................

" none....not everyone is as sad as you " she said ..... kids eh...


----------



## rich p (24 Jun 2017)

I used to have a few punts on every major sporting event but I worked out how much money I was losing despite the odd windfall, and gave it up.
I might start again - I'm too old to care now.


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## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

I only ever have a couple of quid,5 at most on some outside bet.Mind you I allways backed and liked Kwiatowski and he did me proud in Milan San remo.Its only for fun,I know what you mean though roadrash when in bookies.Might as well be asking to bet on hobbyhorse dressage ! Probably win more too.


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## HF2300 (24 Jun 2017)

I'm sure there used to be a pro cycling forum here somewhere...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Might as well be asking to bet on hobbyhorse dressage ! Probably win more too.


Don't ask how I know about this...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjB2L6G9fE


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Don't ask how I know about this...
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjB2L6G9fE



Saw it on BBC news today and made me laugh ! Although me offering to buy my Mrs the hobbyhorse didn't seem to have same humour ?


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jun 2017)

HF2300 said:


> I'm sure there used to be a pro cycling forum here somewhere...


Sorry my fault,what odds would you like ?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Saw it on BBC news today and made me laugh ! Although me offering to buy my Mrs the hobbyhorse didn't seem to have same humour ?


My wife keeps her horse at a dressage yard, so I am exposed to such nobbery on a daily basis; I tend to find myself speaking more to the horses than the people and have arsed about in the sand school a few times to much hilarity (mostly me) and tutting (mostly everyone else)


----------



## Boon 51 (24 Jun 2017)

I will do 5 bets at a quid each and then go and have a lie down to recover..


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> I will do 5 bets at a quid each and then go and have a lie down to recover..


Dinnae bet on Fuglsang!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jun 2017)

roadrash said:


> I'm still trying to decide what bets to put on, I keep thinking ive made up my mind then say feck it scrap that and start again


I had some great "bankers" on tonight's football - all of them lost.

Just as well I had some right dodgy bets on this afternoon which won - Portugal scoring a 4th in the 91st minute resulted in my dogs and cats looking at me very strangely as I jumped over the furniture


----------



## Boon 51 (25 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Dinnae bet on Fuglsang!!



Would that be the kiss of death for your bet then? lol


----------



## Dave Davenport (25 Jun 2017)

I put a tenner each on Bardet (22/1) & Aru (18/1) via my brother in law's bet365 account.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> A double with Cilic to win Wimbledon.


Having never heard of the nobber until yesterday, I now find I cannot escape him - currently flashing up every few minutes on Eurosport that I might want to go watch him playing tennis


----------



## Dayvo (25 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Having never heard of the nobber until yesterday, I now find I cannot escape him - currently flashing up every few minutes on Eurosport that I might want to go watch him playing tennis



You might as well pick him in your TdeF fantasy team, as well.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jun 2017)

Dayvo said:


> You might as well pick him in your TdeF fantasy team, as well.


He may very well be in it, for all the attention I gave to my picks


----------



## Dayvo (25 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> He may very well be in it, for all the attention I gave to my picks



Ah,_ p icks_!


----------



## Boon 51 (25 Jun 2017)

Marmion said:


> Having never heard of the nobber until yesterday, I now find I cannot escape him - currently flashing up every few minutes on Eurosport that I might want to go watch him playing tennis



nobber... not heard that for a few years..lol


----------



## Dayvo (25 Jun 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> nobber... not heard that for a few years..lol



You haven't been around here much, then.

It's the next most used word on CC after _bike_.


----------



## brommers (26 Jun 2017)

I don't like the idea of the first stage being a TT as this more-or-less stops a sprinter from having a chance of wearing the yellow jersey. Having it on stage 2 is a much better idea. The jersey would then go to a time trailer, before it's handed over to a breakaway rider or possibly a GC man.


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> prologue time trials do seem to be probably have been the commonest way to start the Tour over recent years



Looking back over the last 10 years, its been a pretty even split - there have been three prologue openers, and two slightly longer individual time trials (both under 15km). The rest have been road race stages, of which three finished in bunch sprints, and two were a bit more suited to the one day classics specialists.

I'd say they generally get the mix about right, and the sprinters do get a fair crack of the whip. I mean, I'm sure it's nice for them to wear the yellow jersey, but it also seems fair that the likes of Gilbert get a turn as well. 

Prologue - 2007 (Cancellara), 2010 (Cancellara), 2012 (Cancellara)
ITT - 2009 (Cancellara), 2015 (Dennis)
Road race - 2008 (Valverde), 2011 (Gilbert), 2013 (Kittel), 2014 (Kittel), 2016 (Cav)


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (26 Jun 2017)

I prefer that a rider who puts in a full shift in a time trial gets to wear the jersey, rather than a sprinter who wheelsucks for 99.9% of the stage.

Graham


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I should have known some clever clogs would come along with pesky facts and figures to demolish my post.



Yeah, I'm a smartarse, I know. Thing is, I probably wouldn't have bothered to check but ISTR a few years ago they made a point of changing it from having prologues every year in favour of road race stages.

In fact, going back through the records, unless I've missed something, 2005 was the first year the Tour didn't open with a prologue since 1966 (apart from 2000 which was a 16.5km ITT).



> If you do it the other way round, the time gaps are such that by the time the first sprint stage comes up, the winning sprinter is too far off the GC lead to wear yellow.



Like I said, I think they get a fair crack of the whip - three of the last four opening stages have ended in bunch sprints. It doesn't hurt to mix it up a bit. Plus the sprinters get their crack at glory on the final stage too, so they can hardly claim to be hard done by.

Besides, if it weren't for prologues, Chris Boardman would never have got to wear yellow. Why shouldn't people like Boardman get a chance as well?


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2017)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> I prefer that a rider who puts in a full shift in a time trial gets to wear the jersey, rather than a sprinter who wheelsucks for 99.9% of the stage.



It's a team sport, you know.


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## Adam4868 (26 Jun 2017)

The thing about prologues is it gives the opening city something of a show.Plus it gives someone different the chance to wear 'the jersey'.Its not a stage I like on TV,but being there is different.Even my kids like em ! You get to see each rider as opposed to "dad is that it ?" Each to their own I guess.


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> They did indeed. That's the subject of the inrng I linked above.



Eh? Oh yeah... sorry, missed your edit. Good piece that.

One of the commenters makes the good point that time bonuses are another way to shake up the GC in the early stages.

2015 was good - four different yellow jersey wearers after the first four stages.


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## Adam4868 (26 Jun 2017)

Cavendish and Cummings confirmed for the Tour.


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (26 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> It's a team sport, you know.



Yeah, and I do appreciate that. They do get the satisfaction of a stage win for their effort after all. The way teams work to bring back the breakaway, or not, just in time for the sprint is fascinating to watch and often turns a relatively mundane stage into an exciting one.

I just like to see someone who has put in a huge effort throughout the day in yellow. Perhaps best of all those days when they have been working in a breakaway that manages not to get caught.

Can't wait for it to get started.

Graham


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## User269 (26 Jun 2017)

How can there be ***SPOILERS*** ?? 
It hasn't even started yet.
Mods.............dump this thread or change it to "TdF build up" or something, then we can all enjoy another thread about the actual event once it's started. Along with all it's fascinating insights and news which none of us would have heard about without coming here.

PS I'm in France at the moment, and have seen piles of barriers stored at the roadside somewhere, but wouldn't want to ***SPOIL*** your life by telling you about it.


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## Milzy (26 Jun 2017)

Will Tony Martin win stage 1 though, that's the big question???


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2017)

Milzy said:


> Will Tony Martin win stage 1 though, that's the big question???



It's not the certainty it might have been once upon a time. 

Küng, Dennis and Roglic all look like contenders. Some others too. Maybe even Sütterlin. 

Being a short course doesn't work in Martin's favour, does it?


----------



## Milzy (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> It's not the certainty it might have been once upon a time.
> 
> Küng, Dennis and Roglic all look like contenders. Some others too. Maybe even Sütterlin.
> 
> Being a short course doesn't work in Martin's favour, does it?


I'd say not. Though bookies think otherwise.


----------



## Shadow (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Küng, Dennis and Roglic all look like contenders


Dennis who?


(I cannae find Dennis on a startlist!!!)


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## smutchin (27 Jun 2017)

Shadow said:


> Dennis who?



Ah! I was sure I saw Rohan Dennis on the startlist but just checked again and apparently not.

Anyway, Küng and Porte could still potentially make it a BMC 1-2.


----------



## Shadow (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> could still potentially make it a BMC 1-2.


Indeed. 'Potentially' being the key word.

And talking of team 1-2's, how about Roglic and van Emden.


----------



## Milzy (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> It's not the certainty it might have been once upon a time.
> 
> Küng, Dennis and Roglic all look like contenders. Some others too. Maybe even Sütterlin.
> 
> Being a short course doesn't work in Martin's favour, does it?


Ive got Jasha s at 20/1 £5 each way. Hopefully I'll at least get a place & get something back.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2017)

Shadow said:


> And talking of team 1-2's, how about Roglic and van Emden.



Don't forget Gesink!


----------



## brommers (27 Jun 2017)

Sutterlin and Castroviejo?


----------



## Shadow (27 Jun 2017)

brommers said:


> Sutterlin and Castroviejo?


2-4 (not 1-2)!!!


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Cavendish and Cummings confirmed for the Tour.



Teklehaimanot dropped.


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## brommers (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Teklehaimanot dropped.


What, you mean 'the tickler'? what will CK say now when talking about the KOMs?


----------



## Adam4868 (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Teklehaimanot dropped.


Shame like him as a rider/climber.Looked good in giro


----------



## brommers (27 Jun 2017)

See that Bryan Coquard hasn't been chosen - bit of a surprise.


----------



## brommers (27 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Shame like him as a rider/climber.Looked good in giro


Also, you need the role models to promote the sport and I would have thought, Quebeka's cause/purpose.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2017)

brommers said:


> Also, you need the role models to promote the sport and I would have thought, Quebeka's cause/purpose.



They've picked a whole team of white Europeans and South Africans. As well as Teklehaimanot, they've left out Berhane, Debesay and Niyonshuti.

Cav will be under a lot of pressure to justify his inclusion with stage wins.


----------



## Dave Davenport (27 Jun 2017)

brommers said:


> What, you mean 'the tickler'? what will CK say now when talking about the KOMs?


I'm hoping CK will have nothing to say about anything by not being there.


----------



## rich p (27 Jun 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'm hoping CK will have nothing to say about anything by not being there.


To be fair, Dave, he always has nothing to say, but says it anyway...


----------



## lyn1 (27 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> They've picked a whole team of white Europeans and South Africans. As well as Teklehaimanot, they've left out Berhane, Debesay and Niyonshuti.
> 
> Cav will be under a lot of pressure to justify his inclusion with stage wins.



They have picked a team to do a job, rather than to satisfy a nationalistic/colour quota, which would have involved selecting less successful riders. Realistically they are a weak team,(arguably very weak) so no way can they support both a sprinter and a GC rider. The 4 riders you mention above have scored 0, 32, 20 and 0 World Tour ranking points to date, and we are half way through the season. By comparison guys like Haas, Fraile, Thwaites, despite doing dom work all year, EBH, Morton, and Cav, despite his illness, have significantly more points individually than the 4 Africans combined. To have gone the GC route with the African guys would have made no sense, particularly as 2 of those you mention will not have fully recovered from the Giro. Sending one or two of them to the Tour, unsupported, to compete against a load of teams packed with strong GC squads would have left them seriously exposed..
The team ethos of developing African cycling is great and to be commended, so it is understandable that these guys are revered in their own countries for putting cycling or even their country on the map, and rightly so. It is perhaps also understandable that their abilities are somewhat inflated by the local population which perhaps explains their disappointment ( see comments on team facebook) at their heroes not being in the Tour squad.
Going forward DDD have a significant problem in that 46% of their squad is African, yet very few contribute meaningful WT points. With relegation in 2019, points become critical. It is questionable whether this is a realistic number at World Tour level given the current level of African riders. If the intention is to continue at this percentage then they will need to dig deep and recruit a number of top level non African riders to secure the points until hopefully, the African riders develop further..


----------



## brommers (28 Jun 2017)

Stage 3 should be a good finish - one for the puncheurs? 1.6km @ 5.8%


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

brommers said:


> Stage 3 should be a good finish - one for the puncheurs? 1.6km @ 5.8%



Very similar to the finish of last year's stage 2 (Côte de la Glacerie at Cherbourg), which was a cracker.


View: https://youtu.be/DDfwDrmFIIM?t=50s

I like it when they have these Classics-style stages early in the race, definitely livens things up a bit. Shame that stage 2 this year is avoiding all the most notorious climbs around Liège.


----------



## brommers (28 Jun 2017)

I agree - an exciting finish


----------



## Adam4868 (28 Jun 2017)

Is that the stage that sagan thought there was a couple of riders gone allready ? Yea right Pete.


----------



## Crackle (28 Jun 2017)

lyn1 said:


> They have picked a team to do a job, rather than to satisfy a nationalistic/colour quota, which would have involved selecting less successful riders. Realistically they are a weak team,(arguably very weak) so no way can they support both a sprinter and a GC rider. The 4 riders you mention above have scored 0, 32, 20 and 0 World Tour ranking points to date, and we are half way through the season. By comparison guys like Haas, Fraile, Thwaites, despite doing dom work all year, EBH, Morton, and Cav, despite his illness, have significantly more points individually than the 4 Africans combined. To have gone the GC route with the African guys would have made no sense, particularly as 2 of those you mention will not have fully recovered from the Giro. Sending one or two of them to the Tour, unsupported, to compete against a load of teams packed with strong GC squads would have left them seriously exposed..
> The team ethos of developing African cycling is great and to be commended, so it is understandable that these guys are revered in their own countries for putting cycling or even their country on the map, and rightly so. It is perhaps also understandable that their abilities are somewhat inflated by the local population which perhaps explains their disappointment ( see comments on team facebook) at their heroes not being in the Tour squad.
> Going forward DDD have a significant problem in that 46% of their squad is African, yet very few contribute meaningful WT points. With relegation in 2019, points become critical. It is questionable whether this is a realistic number at World Tour level given the current level of African riders. If the intention is to continue at this percentage then they will need to dig deep and recruit a number of top level non African riders to secure the points until hopefully, the African riders develop further..


DD will have it fresh in their memory that but for backtracking by the UCI, they would not be a world tour team this year.

As for Cav, he's surely got to be an outsider for any sprint, though he might come good towards the end of the second week and with the shape of the Tour this year they've probably looked at him coming into form later in the race.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

lyn1 said:


> Going forward DDD have a significant problem in that 46% of their squad is African, yet very few contribute meaningful WT points.



Yes, ok, I get all that, nothing in your post is news to me. I'm still disappointed that the one token African team in the World Tour isn't being represented at the world's biggest cycling event by any non-white Africans.

The simple fact is that one non-white African (Grmay) and one Asian (Arashiro) out of a startlist of 198 riders is not an acceptable level of representation in the 21st century. I'm not blaming Dimension Data for this - the responsibility really lies with the UCI to do more to promote a more diverse peloton.

This used to be a problem in football too. When FIFA changed the rules to ensure more equitable representation at the World Cup with an increased quota of African and Asian teams, there was much outcry about more talented (and by implication more deserving) European teams being omitted. People got over it, though, and it has demonstrably led to an improvement in the quality of African and Asian football. The UCI could do worse than follow that example.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

Crackle said:


> DD will have it fresh in their memory that but for backtracking by the UCI, they would not be a world tour team this year.



Backtracking or face-saving? It would not have reflected well on the UCI to relegate the only African team from the World Tour.


----------



## rich p (28 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Yes, ok, I get all that, nothing in your post is news to me. I'm still disappointed that the one token African team in the World Tour isn't being represented at the world's biggest cycling event by any non-white Africans.
> 
> The simple fact is that one non-white African (Grmay) and one Asian (Arashiro) out of a startlist of 198 riders is not an acceptable level of representation in the 21st century. I'm not blaming Dimension Data for this - the responsibility really lies with the UCI to do more to promote a more diverse peloton.
> 
> This used to be a problem in football too. When FIFA changed the rules to ensure more equitable representation at the World Cup with an increased quota of African and Asian teams, there was much outcry about more talented (and by implication more deserving) European teams being omitted. People got over it, though, and it has demonstrably led to an improvement in the quality of African and Asian football. The UCI could do worse than follow that example.


In football, FIFA, were chucking money at those teams and federations for not entirely worthy motives.
Cycling funding would have to be revolutionised for that to happen. Even the successful teams struggle with funding.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

rich p said:


> In football, FIFA, were chucking money at those teams and federations for not entirely worthy motives.
> Cycling funding would have to be revolutionised for that to happen. Even the successful teams struggle with funding.



Fair point.


----------



## rich p (28 Jun 2017)

smutchin said:


> Fair point.


Didn't the late lamented Igor Tinkov have some view on financial restructuring to share money around?


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

Inrng has published his stage-by-stage guide to the Tour: http://inrng.com/2017/06/tour-guide


----------



## Adam4868 (28 Jun 2017)

Can't see Cav not being up to it.Hes had time to recuperate.Cummings has made a great recovery as has Aru.He will ride himself fit in tour I think.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2017)

Cav DNFed at the nationals last weekend. Hard to read anything meaningful into that but it's certainly not indicative of a rider with much in the way of form. I fear he will struggle and may not last all the way to Paris. I hope to be proved wrong.

He's going up against the likes of Groenewegen and Kittel who both showed themselves to be in good sprinting form at the Ster ZLM Toer last week.


----------



## Adam4868 (28 Jun 2017)

I'm being optimistic for once ! Potentially 9 sprint stages ? He's 4 off the record and has a great team around him.Steve Cummings, Boasson Hagen, Bernhard Eisel, Mark Renshaw etc.. I really hope he can get another couple.
I thought he wouldn't do much last year and got four !


----------



## AndyRM (30 Jun 2017)

If you're on Twitter and don't follow @UKCyclingExpert you are sorely missing out. If you save yourself for highlights each evening, beware, for he does post spoilers. Sort of.


----------



## smutchin (30 Jun 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I'm being optimistic for once ! Potentially 9 sprint stages ? He's 4 off the record and has a great team around him.Steve Cummings, Boasson Hagen, Bernhard Eisel, Mark Renshaw etc.. I really hope he can get another couple.
> I thought he wouldn't do much last year and got four !



They discuss his chances on the latest episode of the Cycling Podcast (which came out last week, before the team was announced)...
https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/countdown-to-the-tour-de-france-episode-19


----------



## Boon 51 (1 Jul 2017)

Well the day has arrived for the Tour to start.. But with whats on offer stage wise I just can't seem to get excited about it. Is it just me or are there others that feel the same?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Well the day has arrived for the Tour to start.. But with whats on offer stage wise I just can't seem to get excited about it. Is it just me or are there others that feel the same?


Join in punditry, that's the most exciting thing ever


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-phones-off-and-friendships-put-aside-for-tour-de-france/

Little Richie Porte is still whingeing about everyone being against him in the Dauphiné.
It really does make you wonder if he's up to the challenge mentally.


----------



## User169 (1 Jul 2017)

Bonjour from Duesseldorf...


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-phones-off-and-friendships-put-aside-for-tour-de-france/
> 
> Little Richie Porte is still whingeing about everyone being against him in the Dauphiné.
> It really does make you wonder if he's up to the challenge mentally.



Hopefully he's just bluffing, and not whingeing: I chose him over Froomie in my fantasy team...


----------



## AndyRM (1 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Hopefully he's just bluffing, and not whingeing: I chose him over Froomie in my fantasy team...



Me too. Starting to get the fear about that decision...


----------



## Adam4868 (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-phones-off-and-friendships-put-aside-for-tour-de-france/
> 
> Little Richie Porte is still whingeing about everyone being against him in the Dauphiné.
> It really does make you wonder if he's up to the challenge mentally.


For me that's why Froome has the edge on a lot mentally,he can literally take all that's thrown at him(piss included).


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

AndyRM said:


> Me too. Starting to get the fear about that decision...



Yep!


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

First rider off almost falls off on the start ramp. Great start!


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

nice to see kraftwek and the tour at the same time


----------



## User169 (1 Jul 2017)

Nice vantage point along the Rhein.


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

'Kin' 'ell! I can go faster than Bouhanni! 

Bit of bloody rain on the road...


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Boardman must be enjoying watching this.


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

I would prefer it if boohoohanni had a tour de france like last year........ie, not there,


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Soo Watchfinder is 1st up in the which company will we grow to hate this year contest.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Disappointingly, Kirby is doing the words on Eurosport.


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Timing graphics are shite


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Encouragingly, Rob Hatch due to take over shortly.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Sagan warming up to Eye of the Tiger. Priceless.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Disappointingly, Carlton is refusing to feck off


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Disappointingly, Carlton is refusing to feck off



It's Ned and Super D Millar on the other side.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> It's Ned and Super D Millar on the other side.


I'm having to watch Eurosport Player due to the rest of my family not sharing my enthusiasm for watching cycling.

However, Carlton has just bid us a fond farewell before the break. Thankfully.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm having to watch Eurosport Player



https://www.itv.com/hub/itv4


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Sagan paying tribute to Lemmy with his facial hair.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Soo Watchfinder is 1st up in the which company will we grow to hate this year contest.



I already hate the KP nuts ad.


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Disappointingly, Carlton is refusing to feck off



Looks like you're going to spend yetanothertour whingeing about the commentators.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Kiryienka smashing it.


----------



## Boon 51 (1 Jul 2017)

Short first stage but there will be some good time gaps I reckon.


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Filthy weather. Let's hope nobody loses their chance today.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Looks like you're going to spend yetanothertour whingeing about the commentators.


Just the one.


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Switching between channels you can largely miss the ads.
Millar is quite a posh git, isn't he!


----------



## booze and cake (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Soo Watchfinder is 1st up in the which company will we grow to hate this year contest.



Agreed, you'd have thought if they wanted to appeal to cyclists they'd at least have a rider in their adverts who looked like he had ridden a bike before, he's the most wooden cyclist I've ever seen. Is he recovering from spinal injury or is that watch so heavy its completely unbalancing his riding?


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Castroviejo off the pace I expected when I picked the twat in the PTP


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm having to watch Eurosport Player due to the rest of my family not sharing my enthusiasm for watching cycling.
> 
> However, Carlton has just bid us a fond farewell before the break. Thankfully.



hmmm the feckers back


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Blimey, I'd forgotten all about GT


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

nice time from the G


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

Go Geraint Thomas....


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Blimey - good effort from Bardet, but who's that hot on his heels? Geraint Thomas, blitzing Kiry's time.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Looks like you're going to spend yetanothertour whingeing about the commentators.





rich p said:


> Switching between channels you can largely miss the ads.
> Millar is quite a posh git, isn't he!



I might well add him as he's starting to get on my tits, the scotch git that he is.


roadrash said:


> hmmm the feckers back



Thankfully my family have all disappeared (not in a sinister "disappearing" sense, just left the room) so I can watch ITV although, as you can see from above Millar is starting to get on my tits


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

i suggest the mute button


----------



## Toshiba Boy (1 Jul 2017)

Chapeau GT!


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I might well add him as he's starting to get on my tits, the scotch git that he is.
> 
> 
> Thankfully my family have all disappeared (not in a sinister "disappearing" sense, just left the room) so I can watch ITV although, as you can see from above Millar is starting to get on my tits


He is a bit of a droney know-all!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Soo Watchfinder is 1st up in the which company will we grow to hate this year contest.


I didn't realise there was such a thing as a market for discarded watches.


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

I may deploy this soon if Kirby doesn't disappear...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

They have 3279 men's watches for sale on watchfinder.co.uk today


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Yeah that KP ad, First turn up at a party with a bloody elephant, then moan the about snacks after having bought none of your own, then rifle around in someoneelses drawers and steal whatever you can find, prat.


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Oh no Valve's


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Valverde out??!!


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

not looking good for valverde


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Down and very out!


----------



## Dave Davenport (1 Jul 2017)

Blimey!


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Valv-Pity?


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Are there no splits being put up on TV?


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

TM away can he beat the G machine


----------



## youngoldbloke (1 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I already hate the KP nuts ad.


It's driving me MAD  I will NEVER EVER buy anything from KP - see, advertisers - it's counterproductive


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

This route is shoot init? why so twisty and narrow and outright dangerous in the wet

And I'n a rider short, i did check but only just realised that that the main window did not shw non starters, oh well


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Feck me. £135,000 for a watch.

Anything happening in the bike race?


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Kittel just set off which made me sad cos no Cav this year.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Kittel just set off which made me sad cos no Cav this year.


Cheer up, he's there


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Really I thought he got ill?


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

what do you mean, no cav


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Kittel just set off which made me sad cos no Cav this year.


Eh?


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

it appears my pre tour research has been lacking


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Really I thought he got ill?


He was but back riding now.


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

sweet!


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Now has anyone seen my watch?


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Stephen King on his way!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Valverde's abandon confirmed


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

What an utter pisser, i had a long look at him for my velo team


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

That's quick, what a shame.


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

One of Quintana's lieutenants gone already then


----------



## Boon 51 (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Valverde's abandon confirmed



Bloody shame.


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

One of the shortest TdeF appearances ever, I'd imagine.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

Spotted on twitter that Roglic has had an "off" as well


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> One of the shortest TdeF appearances ever, I'd imagine.



Boardman in 97 might have been even shorter.


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

oh shiiiiiiit


----------



## Archie (1 Jul 2017)

Oh wow, GT in yellow. I'm starting to believe.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (1 Jul 2017)

Geraint still there!


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

the timing people certainly aren't enhancing their reputation


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Maybe they need help finding a watch...


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

Nice to see that 'Castelli'/whoever actually makes those Sky skinsuits has put pockets for the numbers


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> the timing people certainly aren't enhancing their reputation



That's what happens when you use second-hand... sorry, "pre-owned" watches.


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

Come on, or rather well done Kittel!


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

I think I might need help with wastchfinder, I for some reason we were CET+1, so was expecting the stage to finish at 7.45pm...


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> the timing people certainly aren't enhancing their reputation



The weather's overcast so they can't use the sun dial, so this is their back-up:


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

Forget that, he got unselected from my team at some point, ah well


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

Why does Kirby think that the sprinters give a toss about losing 20 seconds to Thomas et al. Prat.


----------



## Archie (1 Jul 2017)

Kung second. I think G has this now!


----------



## Toshiba Boy (1 Jul 2017)

Red Welsh Dragon on Yellow background?


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Archie said:


> Kung second. I think G has this now!



Not sure, Froome's steaming along -or so it seems.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

C


rich p said:


> Why does Kirby think that the sprinters give a toss about losing 20 seconds to Thomas et al. Prat.


Cos he's a tool


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

He clearly still doesn't understand what the GC riders need today too. FFS why doesn't Kelly tell the daffodil the tactics


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG


----------



## Toshiba Boy (1 Jul 2017)

Great result for Sky.


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Great day for Sky


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> He clearly still doesn't understand what the GC riders need today too. FFS why doesn't Kelly tell the daffodil the tactics


Hmmm! Froome actually has taken a significant chunk after all


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Good start for SKY. Thomas in gold and Froome has a nice little lead over his 'closest' rivals.


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> He clearly still doesn't understand what the GC riders need today too. FFS why doesn't Kelly tell the daffodil the tactics



just once I would love to hear Kelly say ....carlton, shut up you fekin tool


----------



## rich p (1 Jul 2017)

What's the rough time G keeps referring to?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> What's the rough time G keeps referring to?


Being Welsh probably...*

*apologies if there is something serious behind his reference.


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Being Welsh probably...*
> 
> *apologies if there is something serious behind his reference.



Yeah, the Wales team losing to Scotland in the winter's 6 Nations is a once-in-a-lifetime traumatic experience.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Great ride by Simon Yates too...


View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/881199962687766528


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

Just seen the Valverde crash - why weren't there haybales/something soft there!


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Doesn't he look happy?


----------



## rugby bloke (1 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Doesn't he look happy?
> 
> View attachment 359832


Great to see that nice guys do sometimes come first. Fantastic result.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Ion Izagirre is out as well - crashed on the same corner as Valverde, apparently.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Broken kneecap for Valverde. Ouch!


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/MiraNemcikova/status/881159230341959682


----------



## jarlrmai (1 Jul 2017)

Those shades are ludicrous, but somehow Sagan makes it work


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> View: https://twitter.com/MiraNemcikova/status/881159230341959682




Cycling without Sagan wouldn't have quite as much of a draw


----------



## PpPete (1 Jul 2017)

Amused by all the haterz on CyclingNews - apparently the Tour is all over for another year.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (1 Jul 2017)

It seems that 3 Brits* are currently leading the TdF. I wonder whether that's ever happened before.

Always a pleasure to see GT win something in his own right.


* or 2 Brits and a third UK passport holder.

Oh heck, I forgot about that Swiss interloper Küng.


----------



## Dayvo (1 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> It seems that 3 Brits* are currently leading the TdF. I wonder whether that's ever happened before.
> 
> Always a pleasure to see GT win something in his own right.
> 
> ...



Do you reckon they were remainers of brexiteers?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (1 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Do you reckon they were remainers of brexiteers?


Remainers is spelled Remoaners! 

Do they award the white jersey to Yates? Froome can wear the polka dots because Geraint will be in yellow. Or possibly not....


----------



## dragon72 (1 Jul 2017)

The loss of Valverde is a significant blow for Quintana and Movistar.


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

dragon72 said:


> The loss of Valverde is a significant blow for Quintana and Movistar.



Izagerre's retiring has slid under the radar


----------



## 400bhp (1 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Why does Kirby think that the sprinters give a toss about losing 20 seconds to Thomas et al. Prat.



Beause the closer they are then the greater chance they have of taking yellow over the next few days?


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

smutchin posted about Izagerre abandoning on the previous page


----------



## Tynan (1 Jul 2017)

jeez, I thought velo site was slow to update, just realised that my score didn't need updating, nil


----------



## Viking (1 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Beause the closer they are then the greater chance they have of taking yellow over the next few days?


That seems to be the view of Brian Smith and others. I guess with a couple of stage wins and time bonuses, it could have been possible but maybe a long shot now.


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

With 10 seconds for a win, being over 20 behind Gee may not be conducive to the yellow jersey...


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

Excuse my lateness to the party, justbstuck itv4 coverage on for the build up, what's the betting the guys in the Watchfonder adds say things like the tweet below:


View: https://twitter.com/ffflow/status/876399884672303104


----------



## PpPete (1 Jul 2017)

Thought Yates did pretty well - but he's only 5th in the white jersey classifications.
Lots of good young 'uns coming through, apart from Latour & Yates I don't how good any of them are when 't road goes oop?


----------



## Boon 51 (1 Jul 2017)

Will GT ever get to be the leader of the pack I wonder..


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Izagerre's retiring has slid under the radar



Do keep up at the back! 



smutchin said:


> Ion Izagirre is out as well - crashed on the same corner as Valverde, apparently.


----------



## smutchin (1 Jul 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Will GT ever get to be the leader of the pack I wonder..



Does wearing the yellow jersey in the Tour not count?


----------



## roadrash (1 Jul 2017)

wasn't Thomas GC for sky at the Giro


----------



## SWSteve (1 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> wasn't Thomas GC for sky at the Giro



Yeah, then the biker mice from mars got in the way


----------



## mjr (1 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Just seen the Valverde crash - why weren't there haybales/something soft there!


It's a judgment call: the road was already not wide enough for several riders and bales would have narrowed it further. Probably it was the wrong decision but hindsight tends to be clearer.


----------



## Boon 51 (2 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Does wearing the yellow jersey in the Tour not count?



Not really as Frome is still the leader and gives the orders..


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

Hold on, if Gooden Greg is there, has he the chance to hunt stages, or does he have to support Porte? Some of the transitional stages would surely be a draw for him..provided he has licence to attack


----------



## Adam4868 (2 Jul 2017)

Total dominence by Sky yesterday,four riders in the top ten.I think Froome is right where he wants.I think Thomas will stay in yellow today.Hope ! He deserves some limelight,who knows maybe even a podium place.


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> It's a judgment call: the road was already not wide enough for several riders and bales would have narrowed it further. Probably it was the wrong decision but hindsight tends to be clearer.



I disagree that it was the wrong decision. 190-odd riders made it round that bend safely, Valverde's crash (and others) was because he was going too fast for the conditions. You can't blame the organisers for everything that goes wrong. These are highly experienced riders who should know how to corner safely in the rain.


----------



## Adam4868 (2 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I disagree that it was the wrong decision. 190-odd riders made it round that bend safely, Valverde's crash (and others) was because he was going too fast for the conditions. You can't blame the organisers for everything that goes wrong. These are highly experienced riders who should know how to corner safely in the rain.


I get where your coming from,but....on a wet TT it wouldn't be much for crash mats on corners or similar ?


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

have to agree with smutchin, the fact that so many took the corner without incident , and so few crashed, tells me something


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I get where your coming from,but....on a wet TT it wouldn't be much for crash mats on corners or similar ?
> View attachment 359959


He's a dick tho.


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

How many would you want crash and how many hurt before you considered the corner(s) problematic?

Although what on earth he thought he was doing bunging the front brake on going into that corner


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> How many would you want crash and how many hurt before you considered the corner(s) problematic?
> 
> Although what on earth he thought he was doing bunging the front brake on going into that corner


Riders need to ride to conditions; I heard that the Romans complained that the TT stages were very boring on their straight roads so invented corners.


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Is there such a thing as a dangerous stage/bend whatever then?

My first viewing of the German shampoo ad made me smile, nice smug delivery of the punchline

Even The Lady Wife sneered at Apple congratulating themselves on having Word on the new Ipad


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

Any stage or bend can be ridden dangerously.....or not


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> How many would you want crash and how many hurt before you considered the corner(s) problematic?



When I asked Chris Boardman about his 1997 crash, he was pretty clear that he considered it entirely his own fault. I'm sure Valverde would say the same about yesterday.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Is there such a thing as a dangerous stage/bend whatever then?
> 
> My first viewing of the German shampoo ad made me smile, nice smug delivery of the punchline
> 
> Even The Lady Wife sneered at Apple congratulating themselves on having Word on the new Ipad


There was a stage a few years ago where the newly laid tarmac and "something else" contributed to the then leader, Fabian Cancellara, deciding he was the "patron" of the peloton and getting everyone else to ease off - which was met with "how fecking dare he?!" comments from some fans and riders alike. Basically, you can't win one way or t'other, so I usually now just accept whatever happens is what happens. Doesn't stop me whining every now and then tho


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Happy Birthday to Jürgen Roelandts, 32 today.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> When I asked Chris Boardman about his 1997 crash, he was pretty clear that he considered it entirely his own fault. I'm sure Valverde would say the same about yesterday.


Gilbert said of yesterday's stage just after he had finished "You can win seconds on corners and you can lose everything; I choose to be safe..." or something like that.


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

anyway, the original point was about the barrier, ie a crash was forseeable but was it ok for a rider to slide a few feet and then hit a metal barrier

and three riders lost on the first short stage?

and the riders spread out that much on the first day because people are being careful


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> anyway, the original point was about the barrier, ie a crash was forseeable but was it ok for a rider to slide a few feet and then hit a metal barrier
> 
> and three riders lost on the first short stage?
> 
> and the riders spread out that much on the first day because people are being careful


That's racing for you.

edit - who's the 3rd rider? Valverde, Izagirre and ?? Did someone pull out today?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

18 years apart:


----------



## Viking (2 Jul 2017)

These tight city courses are always tricky in the wet especially if they've been resurfaced recently and/or had normal traffic on them before the race. I don't see riders crashing as a problem; handling the bike in different conditions is part of the game but the penalty should be time/skin lost, not broken bones. IMHO, there should have been cushioning on that corner given that the conditions made it inevitable that someone would overcook it.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> 18 years apart:
> View attachment 359998


I reckon Millar's eyes have grown closer together.


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Jul 2017)

Not a great weather day for the tour today.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Not a great weather day for the tour today.


Was just going to post the same. 

Anyone want to see a pic of one of the breakaway rider's houses? It's impressive.


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

go on then


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2017)

ITV4 watchers will have seen that Audi ad. The slogan ''It doesn't just drive, it thinks'' appears to be a recognition of what was previously lacking in their cars...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> go on then


Glad you said that, I'd have looked a bit stupid(er) otherwise:






The family gaff of Mr Boudat


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

marmion.................cyclechats answer to carlton Kirby


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Gallopin's Left Foot, not played by Daniel Day Lewis


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> marmion.................cyclechats answer to carlton Kirby



I beg your pudding! 
At least I am on topic and can identify riders


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

even their feet.......


----------



## Adam4868 (2 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> ITV4 watchers will have seen that Audi ad. The slogan ''It doesn't just drive, it thinks'' appears to be a recognition of what was previously lacking in their cars...


Got a Mrs to tell me how I'm driving and to think for me.Im sick of that hipster fella with the big watch advert allready though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> even their feet.......


He has a quite easily-identifiable little toe; and it was tagged as his on Lotto Soudal twitter account


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Got a Mrs to tell me how I'm driving and to think for me.Im sick of that hipster fella with the big watch advert allready though.


It's the mogadon voiceover that's doing my head in.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Are we going to see riders adopting this approach before too long?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Glad you said that, I'd have looked a bit stupid(er) otherwise:
> View attachment 360000
> 
> 
> The family gaff of Mr Boudat


On closer inspection, I'm glad to report that I have a similar clothes drying solution as his family


----------



## Adam4868 (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Gallopin's Left Foot, not played by Daniel Day Lewis
> View attachment 360014


*Burgled house, stolen car, battered ankle: a day to forget for Tony Gallopin*
*Good things come in threes ?*


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> *Burgled house, stolen car, battered ankle: a day to forget for Tony Gallopin*
> *Good things come in threes ?*


oh dear, not a good day at all


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> He has a quite easily-identifiable little toe; and it was tagged as his on Lotto Soudal twitter account



how the bloody hell did he manage to get a cycling shoe on that foot


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> He has a quite easily-identifiable little toe; and it was tagged as his on Lotto Soudal twitter account



Kirby would still have got it wrong.


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Someone packed today following ligament damage from a fall yesterday not riding itself off

much talk today about custom made hay bales, 'thousands of them', made to 'make the course safe'

that's a very nice house indeed but there's been quite a few detailed today


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Are we going to see riders adopting this approach before too long?


Taking the anti-aero talk a little to far imho.


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

ouch that looks bad


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

oooh, big accident coming off a rab, 50 odd riders down including Froome and Bardet, Froome back off on a new bike


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

WHY WAS THERE NO PADDING ON THAT ROUNDABOUT? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN????


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)




----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

after all that talk about staying at the front out of trouble ...


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

what would you have want to be padded on the rab?


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

Hen-ow after that one


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> what would you have want to be padded on the rab?


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

Go Phinney! A few years ago, you might have backed him to pull this off, but now... not so sure, but would love to see him win.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2017)

I missed what happened to G in that crash.Is he back in the peloton?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I missed what happened to G in that crash.Is he back in the peloton?


Sky twitter feed shows a pic of him riding on Froome's right after the crash has sorted itself out


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I missed what happened to G in that crash.Is he back in the peloton?



Hes in the bunch right next to the banana lottery riders. 

Not that France 2 want us to know that, they're too busy showing us the podium reject


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

"man up sprinter's teams" says waffly scotch git Dave, and Ned joins in...


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

Shouldn't the sprinters have woken up? There are 8.5k to go, and there's nothing to suggest they want to win the stage


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

This is going to be close.


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Shame, I'm always rooting for the breakaway, i thought my man Greipel might nick that but surely I must have points now ...


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Jul 2017)

Big finish, nice.


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Shame, I'm always *rooting for the breakaway*, i thought my man Greipel might nick that but surely I must have points now ...



Is it ever worth it?


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

Big finish, didn't expect Aru to come 9th though


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

Hold on, how do KP nuts get the sun for 130 days before being picked, they grow underground


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Is it ever worth it?



Yes I know, it's in my nature I'm afraid


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Hold on, how do KP nuts get the sun for 130 days before being picked, they grow underground



Legalised lying, the art of taking two half truths and making a whole lie. I suppose they mean the whole plant but i agree with you


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

The Beautiful Marcel looking pretty unbeatable there. 

Good effort by Cav though, pleasantly surprised to see him in the top 5.


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Hold on, how do KP nuts get the sun for 130 days before being picked, they grow underground


how would the sun penetrate the foil packet


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Kittel is one scary looking farker isn't he, never seen his official picture before, yikes


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Big finish, didn't expect Aru to come 9th though



oooo! Yes!


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Big finish, didn't expect Aru to come 9th though



He didn't. It was Matthews.


----------



## Viking (2 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Why does Kirby think that the sprinters give a toss about losing 20 seconds to Thomas et al. Prat.


Kittel only 6 seconds behind Thomas now


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2017)

I wonder if we'll see attacks at the end of the day like in 2014


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> oooo! Yes!


60th in fact


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

Eurosport have just shown Aru as 9th so that's where that's from, none else seems to agree


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> That's racing for you.
> 
> edit - who's the 3rd rider? Valverde, Izagirre and ?? Did someone pull out today?





Tynan said:


> Someone packed today following ligament damage from a fall yesterday not riding itself off
> 
> much talk today about custom made hay bales, 'thousands of them', made to 'make the course safe'
> 
> that's a very nice house indeed but there's been quite a few detailed today



It was Durbridge, reports were that he'd started but evidently things did not go to plan.


----------



## J1888 (2 Jul 2017)

Great finish, really felt for Phinney and the other lad, thought they may just hold on when they held the 31 sec lead for a while.

Watching on my phone, it was hard to see who was coming through but Kittel is just so good. Sounded like Bouhani was in with a shout for a while too


----------



## Tynan (2 Jul 2017)

He got a nice run in at the very end and admittedly took it very well, my man Greipel had to work his way through a bit and never looked like he thought he'd get there


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2017)

J1888 said:


> Sounded like Bouhani was in with a shout for a while too



Bouhanni blew his load too early and sat up, shaking his head, about 50m from the line. The nobber.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Bouhanni blew his load too early and sat up, shaking his head, about 50m from the line. The nobber.


I wonder who he's blaming today?


----------



## roadrash (2 Jul 2017)

anybody and everybody probably, one thing for sure it wont be his fault.....boohoo...


----------



## tug benson (2 Jul 2017)

Boon 51 said:


> Not really as Frome is still the leader and gives the orders..


should the 3 time winner of the tour step aside because Thomas has a few seconds lead?

Froome is the top dog at Sky for a reason


----------



## mjr (2 Jul 2017)

tug benson said:


> should the 3 time winner of the tour step aside because Thomas has a few seconds lead?
> 
> Froome is the top dog at Sky for a reason


Fear.

Fear and ruthless efficiency.

Froome is the top dog at Sky for two reasons...


----------



## mjr (2 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Got a Mrs to tell me how I'm driving and to think for me.Im sick of that hipster fella with the big watch advert allready though.


Doesn't a watch that big affect the steering badly? And wouldn't you worry about bashing an expensive watch up if you went tarmac surfing?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Doesn't a watch that big affect the steering badly? And wouldn't you worry about bashing an expensive watch up if you went tarmac surfing?


Cav was apparently wearing a £10,000 watch yesterday during the TT, which was a gift from someone rather than a sponsorship deal. He was obviously taking the "safe" approach to getting round.

I really am becoming the Carlton Kirby of CC


----------



## Andy_R (2 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Doesn't a watch that big affect the steering badly? And wouldn't you worry about bashing an expensive watch up if you went tarmac surfing?


And his hairy fecking arms and legs...he's like a badger riding a bicycle...."Nurse, nurse, I need gravel removing from my buttocks...Sorry, we'll have to shave you first to find out where the road ends and your @rse begins" "


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Fear.
> 
> Fear and ruthless efficiency.



And an almost fanatical devotion to Dave Brailsford.


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> And an almost fanatical devotion to Dave Brailsford.


Hasn't Froome been evasive when asked questions about the late and basic tweet in support of DaveB during the jiffy bag dissection compared to his teammates, or have I dreamed that?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Hasn't Froome been evasive when asked questions about the late and basic tweet in support of DaveB during the jiffy bag dissection compared to his teammates, or have I dreamed that?



No, you're right. His once fanatical devotion to DB has definitely appeared to waver lately.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Hasn't Froome been evasive when asked questions about the late and basic tweet in support of DaveB during the jiffy bag dissection compared to his teammates, or have I dreamed that?


I think you are right, did he not go as far as making grumbling noises?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Anyway, back to today's stage... a few years ago, you'd have said this was a great one for Carlos Betancur. Then he discovered pies and beer. Now looks like he's back in proper racing shape. Will be interesting to see how he gets on today...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> No, you're right. His once fanatical devotion to DB has definitely appeared to waver lately.


Let's start a rumour that he's leaving and going to, errr, who could he go to? A new team. Started by Oleg, who wants back in, but with Watchfinder as the banner sponsor.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Let's start a rumour...



I've already heard a few whispers - BMC have been mentioned, but I think that sounds unlikely.


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Let's start a rumour that he's leaving and going to, errr, who could he go to? A new team. Started by Oleg, who wants back in, but with Watchfinder as the banner sponsor.


Aren't there already rumours that he's unhappy with his early season programme this year and off to BMC when his contract's over?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

TMN to me.


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> TMN to me.


Nah, not for crossed posts.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Nah, not for crossed posts.



Ok, I'll let you off that one.


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

I think Froome knows that he'd struggle to get a team as strong as Sky anywhere else bar Movistar...
...and he ain't going there.
He'll sign a new contract for Sky IMHO but whether or not SirDB will still be there is a moot point.


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I've already heard a few whispers - BMC have been mentioned, but I think that sounds unlikely.


Is it that unlikely? BMC are still wanting a GC winner and may have the budget to hire him, while Froome may want to prove that he can win with a more classic style team developed with input from him and Porte rather than Sky's mix of hired galacticos and riders trained by Boardman-style secret squirrels.


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Jul 2017)

Mikka Landa is looking to leave Sky and go for a GC ride somewhere?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)

<whispers> Team Watchfinder


----------



## brommers (3 Jul 2017)

I thought that Froome has just signed a new 3 year contract worth £12 million


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Aren't there already rumours that he's unhappy with his early season programme this year and off to BMC when his contract's over?


That rumour was put out by the French press I seem to remember,he's not going anywhere at the moment,and why would he ? He's top dog for a reason,namely being a three time tour winner.I doubt Froome will bother going anywhere else,maybe in time I think he'll do a Wiggins and set something up.African team ?


----------



## Shadow (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Anyway, back to today's stage


Quite (I thought this was the TdF thread, not the who's going where/the Dawg's contract deliberations thread!!).

Am looking forward to being somewhat idle and take in the new-fangled full tv coverage by watching from the start to see what, how & when the break goes. Potentially a watchable non-dull stage, in spite of Marmy's assertions otherwise.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> ... watching...watchable...



The advertising works!


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> I thought this was the TdF thread, not the who's going where/the Dawg's contract deliberations thread!!



If anyone does want to discuss it in more detail, I've started a 2018 rumours thread... 
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/transfers-rumours-2018.220618/


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

Froome will be leader for Watchfinder.co-KP Nuts in 2018 mark my words


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

Nice to see Steve "Arriere du Peloton" Cummings looking well..


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

Bloody hell, @Marmion is being proved right.
Peloton going at 20 kph


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Nice to see Steve "Arriere du Peloton" Cummings looking well..



#teamplayer


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Jul 2017)

This is boring so I'm off to mow the lawn..


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

I'm seriously considering doing some work.


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

Do you think it gets annoying riding with a helicopter overhead for 5 odd hours every day?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Cav mops up the dregs at the intermediate sprint. Interesting.

Sagan and Kittel didn't look too interested though.


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

Probably just trying to get some form into his legs.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Probably just trying to get some form into his legs.



Yep. I doubt he has any intention of making a serious bid for the green jersey but it's a positive sign about his mental state.

His post-race interview yesterday was interesting too - he was very candid about his physical condition, admitted he didn't have the power to contest the sprint, instead relying on his wheel-surfing skills. Worth watching on catch-up if you missed it.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Yep. I doubt he has any intention of making a serious bid for the green jersey but it's a positive sign about his mental state.
> 
> His post-race interview yesterday was interesting too - he was very candid about his physical condition, admitted he didn't have the power to contest the sprint, instead relying on his wheel-surfing skills. Worth watching on catch-up if you missed it.


Bit of self depreciation i think.I doubt cav would have gone if he didn't think he was in with any sort of chance.Same with Thomas who said he didn't know where his form was at before the tour.....yea right G......


----------



## Shadow (3 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The advertising works!


To a degree... I shall not be purchasing any second-hand timepieces!!


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/881579216680235009


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> To a degree... I shall not be purchasing any second-hand timepieces!!


But the hour hand as well as the secondhand...


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

If they put on a race from today's finish town to a city in southern Ireland... you know what they'd call it, right?



Spoiler



A Longwy to Tipperary


----------



## roadrash (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> If they put on a race from today's finish town to a city in southern Ireland... you know what they'd call it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



another reason cyclechat should have a groan button beside the like button


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> View: https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/881579216680235009



Bardet looks like Blakey in on the buses


----------



## Dayvo (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> View: https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/881579216680235009




'Bloody kerb crawlers!'


----------



## Speicher (3 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> 'Bloody kerb crawlers!'


It looks like they would all be very good at playing "Twister" but with or without the bikes.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

What's that dint in Froomes knee ? Is it something sky have developed to save weight ?


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

The proform bike trainers ads are getting worse, guy in suit rides a TDF stage right by sun trap window.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

What happened to Bardet?


----------



## roadrash (3 Jul 2017)

had a fall apparently, didn't see it


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

de Gendt is gone.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

How easy did sagan make that look !


----------



## roadrash (3 Jul 2017)

even after his right foot unclipped as he started to sprint


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Cracking finish.

Kicking myself for changing my punditry prediction though.


----------



## Tynan (3 Jul 2017)

Sagan is looking rather superior

Nice to see Richie take any sort of interest and hurray to see Fulsang in the top ten to give me any points this stage

Eurosport finally corrected the phantom Aru ten ten placing today

A rather interesting finish that one


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

'Vat iz pressure?'



Also: what's with the ski goggles? How very wacky.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Kittel only 6 seconds behind Thomas now



Somewhat more than that now - nearly three minutes, in fact. I'm slightly baffled that some of the commentators thought he might stay in touch on the final climb today and maybe get the yellow jersey tomorrow. It was never going to happen. He's hanging on to the green jersey though - keeping it warm for Sagan.

Latour now in the white jersey.


----------



## Tynan (3 Jul 2017)

'Richie Porte looked to have it locked up'

According to CyclingNews, really? Even i thought nothing of the sort, didn;t even finish in the top ten


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> 'Richie Porte looked to have it locked up'
> 
> According to CyclingNews, really? Even i thought nothing of the sort, didn;t even finish in the top ten



He's moved up 24 places to 20th in GC though, so job done. I thought he was just showing off his climbing form to get his main rivals thinking a bit. Could be a contender for Wednesday's stage.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> If they put on a race from today's finish town to a city in southern Ireland... you know what they'd call it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many thanks for taking my "CCs Carlton Kirby" claims well off the table...


----------



## PpPete (3 Jul 2017)

And there was me thinking the peloton would let the break go in the start town so they could have a long......
IGMC


----------



## Tynan (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> He's moved up 24 places to 20th in GC though, so job done. I thought he was just showing off his climbing form to get his main rivals thinking a bit. Could be a contender for Wednesday's stage.


Splendid as i plumped for him in a hope that the Sky era might come to an end, but no way in the world was he winning that one, the shot from the frot showed a boiling mass getting ready to go


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

There's a few who have lost enough time today to position themselves as non-GC threatening, future stage winners or KOM candidates.
Pinot, for instance, lost 3 plus minutes today.
Rolland, Mollema and Gesink all lost serious chunks too.


----------



## Boon 51 (3 Jul 2017)

My two bets for the tour have stayed out of trouble so far.. Fulsang and Aru..


----------



## MikeG (3 Jul 2017)

Is it too far fetched to think that Sagan could be a GC contender, given this year's course?


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Is it too far fetched to think that Sagan could be a GC contender, given this year's course?



You should know the answer to that question by this time on Wednesday - last time a stage finished at La Planche des Belles Filles, in 2014, Sagan crossed the line over 22 minutes behind Froome.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Is it too far fetched to think that Sagan could be a GC contender, given this year's course?


Could he lose 20 kg overnight ?


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Is it too far fetched to think that Sagan could be a GC contender, given this year's course?


Yes!


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2017)

Anyone thinking Porte had a check is not are of the true difference in the power guys like Sagan are able to put out in the last few meters.


Adam4868 said:


> Could he lose 20 kg overnight ?



Maybe if he got rid of those sunglasses


----------



## MikeG (3 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> You should know the answer to that question by this time on Wednesday - last time a stage finished at La Planche des Belles Filles, in 2014, Sagan crossed the line over 22 minutes behind Froome.



Because he was focused on something else. Why bust a gut on a day you can't win, if your focus is on the points prize? But with only two hill top finishes this year........


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Because he was focused on something else. Why bust a gut on a day you can't win, if your focus is on the points prize? But with only two hill top finishes this year........


If you're in the ProTour Punditry, I'm sure that @Marmion will let you change your GC pick to Sagan!


----------



## MikeG (3 Jul 2017)

I'm not, and I wouldn't be picking him anyway. But I wouldn't be surprised if one of these years he has a stab at the GC title, and this year looks like the course might suit him.


----------



## Dave Davenport (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I'm not, and I wouldn't be picking him anyway. But I wouldn't be surprised if one of these years he has a stab at the GC title, and this year looks like the course might suit him.


Yep, first tour without any mountains I'll be putting a wedge on him.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2017)




----------



## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Yep, first tour without any mountains I'll be putting a wedge on him.


Theres mountains to come Dave.Theres no reason to think he can't win a grand tour in the future.Wiggins did ! 
As for a bet on him it's your money.Youd probally get 5 or 600 to 1 ! Worth a quid.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Because he was focused on something else. Why bust a gut on a day you can't win, if your focus is on the points prize? But with only two hill top finishes this year........



Like I said, you'll get the answer to your question on Wednesday.


----------



## Shadow (3 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> Am looking forward to being somewhat idle and take in the new-fangled full tv coverage by watching from the start to see what, how & when the break goes. Potentially a watchable non-dull stage, in spite of Marmy's assertions otherwise.


The start and finish were great. The less said about the middle the better. Dare I say, Marmy was right!
Won't be doing that again.

Until wednesday!


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2017)

Sagan hasn't a bit of a thing about in-clipping for a sprint. First the world championships now this!


----------



## mjr (3 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Theres no reason to think he can't win a grand tour in the future.Wiggins did !


Bit mean to suggest Sagan should take Kenacort. He's doing fine at what he's doing.


----------



## Boon 51 (4 Jul 2017)

The really big climbs would stop him I think?


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

Today might be the most processional TdF stage of all time.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2017)

According to the headline on the official letour.fr site:
*Sprinters to be warn: Bouhanni plays at home...*

You'd think they'd use a competent English speaker by now.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

What's the warning about Bouhanni? That he's a dick?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What's the warning about Bouhanni? That he's a dick?


That he's on home territory, born in Epinal (épine meaning spike), and he's certainly spiky.


----------



## roadrash (4 Jul 2017)

Hes certainly a bell end


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> That he's on home territory, born in Epinal (épine meaning spike), and he's certainly spiky.


He'll still be as 2nd rate tho


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2017)

Talking of French riders, how on earth did Pinot end up 3 minutes down? I don't remember him being involved in crashes. Did he go down in that wet roundabout crash?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Talking of French riders, how on earth did Pinot end up 3 minutes down? I don't remember him being involved in crashes. Did he go down in that wet roundabout crash?


There are a few riders who seem to be positioning themselves for KOM by losing a good few minutes, which I imagine will build over the next few stages, so that they'll be allowed to bugger off and contest climbs without being a threat to the GC riders.

I'm guessing that's all it is.


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

If Kitten doesn't win this I'll buy some Sagan goggles.


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

Also all day TDF coverage is the new ball by ball Test match radio coverage, they just need cakes in the commentary box.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Also all day TDF coverage is the new ball by ball Test match radio coverage, they just need cakes in the commentary box.



And Kirbers and Hatchers corpsing after one of them makes an innuendo about the 'inner part' of a rider's thigh.


----------



## BrumJim (4 Jul 2017)

Can I guess as to who will be crowned the Most Aggressive Rider today, please?


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

I did see a french rider with a particularly large sandwich in the feed zone, so maybe him?


----------



## Buddfox (4 Jul 2017)

Spending 170+km out front on your own must be a special kind of hell. But you can't fault WGG for getting in the breaks so far this year...


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> Spending 170+km out front on your own must be a special kind of hell.



Chapeau GVK. Reminds me of Wiggo in 2007...


View: https://youtu.be/Tin2tf0YIaA


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

Cav?


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

oh no cav crash


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Carnage! 

Cav's not getting up. Not a good sign.


----------



## roadrash (4 Jul 2017)

not looking good for cav


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

shoulder again


----------



## Buddfox (4 Jul 2017)

Eesh not sure about that Sagan elbow...


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

Yeah that's racing, I don't think that was intentional at 40mph


----------



## Viking (4 Jul 2017)

Sagan elbowed Cavendish into the barrier


----------



## Archie (4 Jul 2017)

That helicopter shot shows Sagan putting him in the barrier. Should be DQd from the stage IMO.

Edit: IM hasty, first look O.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Looks clear to me that Sagan elbowed Cav into the barrier !

Should get penalised for that.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Twitter is saying broken shoulder for Cav. Ouch.


----------



## MasterDabber (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Looks clear to me that Sagan elbowed Cav into the barrier !
> 
> Should get penalised for that.


Looked deliberate to me.


----------



## Lee_M (4 Jul 2017)

definitely deliberate from where I was watching


----------



## Beebo (4 Jul 2017)

I have watched it a few times now. I think Cav went for a gap that wasnt there.
Sagan was already drifting towards the barrier. Cav was never going to get through with or without the elbow.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> I have watched it a few times now. I think Cav went for a gap that wasnt there.
> Sagan was already drifting towards the barrier. Cav was never going to get through with or without the elbow.



Cav was on Sagans right hand side ?


----------



## Buddfox (4 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> I have watched it a few times now. I think Cav went for a gap that wasnt there.
> Sagan was already drifting towards the barrier. Cav was never going to get through with or without the elbow.



Not sure... looked like Cav was on Demare's wheel and Sagan tried to jump
on it, perhaps without realising Cav was there


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Do people _seriously_ think Sagan would do that deliberately?


----------



## Viking (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Cav was on Sagans right hand side ?


Yes that's correct - the same side that Sagan's elbow came into play


----------



## MichaelO (4 Jul 2017)

They were having a bit of a shouting match in the run up to the incident.
Be interesting to see how it's dealt with. Can't see it being worthy of a DQ


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> If Kitten doesn't win this I'll buy some Sagan goggles.



http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/100-speedcraft-tall-sagan-limited-edition-/rp-prod160033


----------



## Tynan (4 Jul 2017)

For me, at worse, Sagan is closing a gap that isn't there and he is finishing moving across into, there ws never going to be room for a rider to pass on the outside

And yes, is anyone suggesting that anyone would do that deliberately?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Do people _seriously_ think Sagan would do that deliberately?



Deliberate or not, sprinters and indeed Cav himself have been penalised for far less in the past.


----------



## Lee_M (4 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> For me, at worse, Sagan is closing a gap that isn't there and he is finishing moving across into, there ws never going to be room for a rider to pass on the outside
> 
> And yes, is anyone suggesting that anyone would do that deliberately?



Yep, me, Look at the helicopter shot, nothing accidental there


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Cav just said Sagan 'came across' him and 'not a fan of his elbow'


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Is Cav definitely out of Tour?
> 
> (sorry no other news source at the mo)


 
He doesn't know himself at the mo. Needs stitches in a finger but worried that he has done his shoulder. Won't know until hospital has checked him out.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Deliberate or not, sprinters and indeed Cav himself have been penalised for far less in the past.



Sure, and there are definitely grounds for Sagan being held responsible for that crash.

Will be interesting to see what the commissaires say.


----------



## Tynan (4 Jul 2017)

Euresport seem more upset about Sagan cutting across initially and supposedly Greipel has made some rude noises about Sagan

I don't know much about this but it seems to me like the sprinters all go mental together and anything goes


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

"Sagan removed from 2nd to 115th in stage results. 30 sec penalty. #TDF2017"


----------



## uncle_adolph (4 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Euresport seem more upset about Sagan cutting across initially and supposedly Greipel has made some rude noises about Sagan
> 
> I don't know much about this but it seems to me like the sprinters all go mental together and anything goes



Greipel was on the receiving end of Sagan's elbow at an intermediate sprint yesterday and had words with him at the time.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

It doesn't look right to me. Sprinting is a tough business, but I don't buy the idea that you've got to stick your elbow out like that to keep your balance. There's only one reason for that amount of elbow, and that close the barrier, only one possible outcome, as we saw. And it wasn't that Cav was going for a gap that wasn't there, he was on the right, and everybody moved way across so he ended up in the barrier, with the help of Peter's elbow delivering the coup de grace.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2017)

The whole sprint was wild and moving all over the road. Sagan tried to move onto Demare's wheel cutting up Cav in the process, realized then tried to correct but made it worse and had to throw an arm to stay balanced. Sagan's fault.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

In cycle coaching you learn about the cone of balance, I think that's what it's called. Basically about moving your weight around on the bike. Fractional movement in bodyweight makes an immense difference. Moving elbows or arms, totally and utterly sod all difference (relatively). No way in a million years that elbow was for balance.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not taking sides cos I haven't seen it but isn't a 30sec penalty meaningless to a rider whose main objective is the points comp? If they are going to penalise, surely they should deduct points.



He has been given last place so scores zero points.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

Sagan supporters, watch this, keep looping the first second or two, and tell me that you can honestly say there is any doubt whatsoever that it was not deliberate!

https://streamable.com/hjzqf


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

"According Tissot results, Sagan also penaltized for 80 points in Green Jersey competition. Sagan 95 -> 15 points. #TDF2017"


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> He has been given last place so scores zero points.



The penalty is not specific to Sagan but any rider causing such an accident. However looks like he has also been awarded a green jersey penalty which is Sagan specific.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2017)

bozmandb9 said:


> Sagan supporters, watch this, keep looping the first second or two, and tell me that you can honestly say there is any doubt whatsoever that it was not deliberate!
> 
> https://streamable.com/hjzqf


A selective view doesn't show everything else that happened leading up to that.


----------



## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2017)

Ok. I'll save my other questions for when I watch the highlights tonight. They'll probably be answered.

Thanks for the commentary.


----------



## Tynan (4 Jul 2017)

dear oh dear, and he was burning so brightly this morning, he was like the second coming of jesus


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> A selective view doesn't show everything else that happened leading up to that.


Are you serious? Watch the goddam video. What, leading up to that, can excuse the obvious fact that Sagan used his elbow with some force, to push Cav into the barrier, causing him to crash and break his collarbone?


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2017)

bozmandb9 said:


> Are you serious? Watch the goddam video. What, leading up to that, can excuse the obvious fact that Sagan used his elbow with some force, to push Cav into the barrier, causing him to crash and break his collarbone?


Perfectly. Sagan was at fault for certain but deliberate........I'm not seeing it.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Perfectly. Sagan was at fault for certain but deliberate........I'm not seeing it.



Try this one then:https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...SSOnnscQoswTV5Je9hCX9sLQGEiPFR3nocwIPdumO2Re4

See Sagan's elbow cause Cav to begin to lose balance, then come up higher, it's elbow, elbow harder and higher, crash.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> dear oh dear, and he was burning so brightly this morning, he was like the second coming of jesus



He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.


----------



## uncle_adolph (4 Jul 2017)

Looking at the tweets I think it's fair to say Dimension Data think he should be DQ'd from Le Tour.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Perfectly. Sagan was at fault for certain but deliberate........I'm not seeing it.



Quite. The punishment sounds about right to me.

It's all official now...

Placing in stage results:






Overall position in points classification:


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

uncle_adolph said:


> Looking at the tweets I think it's fair to say Dimension Data think he should be DQ'd from Le Tour.



I'm not surprised they're upset. If Cav is out for another lengthy spell, that could have fairly serious long-term effects for them as a team.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Quite. The punishment sounds about right to me.
> 
> It's all official now...
> 
> ...



And of course the penalty has nothing to do with the fact it puts Demare in Green


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

The view from the helicopter shows Sagan being pushed to the right by Demare (no danger there) whose wheel he was following, but Sagan drifts and appears to lose balance: he seems to put out both his arms to counter the movement at high speed UNAWARE that Cav is behind him to his right. The only place Cav had to go was the barriers.

Sagan caused the accident by way of moving over after Demare, but it was by no means deliberate.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2017)

bozmandb9 said:


> Try this one then:https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://twitter.com/diarioenlanube/status/882268277866729472/video/1&h=ATPfaCdMJS9fbWFvntJ5TPn3PYoHOGoA6RsIQxn9mYw7RQzQ4JgmruSOSxxgp4eB0JJ9AET_DGxK9xKtZ9eEpyDXd-gsavEhP8SSOnnscQoswTV5Je9hCX9sLQGEiPFR3nocwIPdumO2Re4
> 
> See Sagan's elbow cause Cav to begin to lose balance, then come up higher, it's elbow, elbow harder and higher, crash.


I see Sagan move right, realize his mistake and try to throw the bike right but he can't because his whole momentum is trying to take him left. The only way he can keep his balance doing that is to lurch his body left and his elbow comes out as a result of that.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I see Sagan move right, realize his mistake and try to throw the bike right but he can't because his whole momentum is trying to take him left. The only way he can keep his balance doing that is to lurch his body left and his elbow comes out as a result of that.



Aha. Ok. Go to your mirror and lift your right arm out high and wide, with the elbow out. You'll find it shifts your balance to the right. Your upper body, and your balance, follows your elbow, so it's not really possible what you're describing. Also the elbow is in contact with Cav, pushing him down, and the elbow doesn't come down, until the job is done, and Cav is out.


----------



## Tynan (4 Jul 2017)

all the more points for Griepel, I need them, a lot


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE 4867205, member: 45"]It does look like Cav had already started to push him with his head.[/QUOTE]
That's a bit like saying somebody hit your fist with their face. So Cav is being pushed into the barrier, with Sagan's arm pushing against his head. Cav desperately tries to stay on, pushing back with his head, and trying to keep his balance. Sagan then raises his elbow in two stages, higher and higher until Cav is down. Remember even if there's an illusion of space to Cav's right, there would be the feet from the barrier protruding out. He had nowhere to go, and was simply trying to stay upright, whilst Sagan kept squeezing and pushing till he was down. Anyway, looks like the commissaires see it as Sagan's fault, though they've gone very easy on him.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Peter Sagan has been kicked out of the Tour de France. (Radio Monte Carlo)


----------



## Viking (4 Jul 2017)

Sagan DQed and sent home according to Cycling News


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Sagan DQed and sent home according to Cycling News



Confirmed:

View: https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/882283734728417280


----------



## Beebo (4 Jul 2017)

Shares in Speedcraft sunglasses have just collapsed in value.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2017)

Statement from the jury:

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSNCycling/status/882286213159374848


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

Don't think much would have happened if he was French! 

Not a good day for cycling.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE 4867219, member: 45"]His head is in contact with the side of Sagan's chest before the arm comes out. I'm not confident about what's happening here, but Cav does have a history of going for gaps that aren't wide enough and then trying to widen the gap by barging others with his head.[/QUOTE]
Did you watch it live? The gap was around 30 feet before Sagan started moving further and further across, until it was non existant. Anyway, I guess the Commissaires know best, and they've decided, so far as I'm concerned, they've got it right. Just sad the the Tour will now be missing two great riders.


----------



## bozmandb9 (4 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Don't think much would have happened if he was French!
> 
> Not a good day for cycling.



I assume you mean Sagan. If it had been DeMare instead of Cav, then Sagan would have struggled to get out of there in one piece, oh, and the DQ would have come an hour earlier.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

bozmandb9 said:


> I assume you mean Sagan. If it had been DeMare instead of Cav, then Sagan would have struggled to get out of there in one piece, oh, and the DQ would have come an hour earlier.



And if it had been Demare instead of Sagan... _Quelle domage. _


----------



## roadrash (4 Jul 2017)

in the punditry competition only one person @ItsSteveLovell ,didn't include sagan in his picks for the green jersey, did he know something we didn't...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> And if it had been Demare instead of Sagan... _Quelle domage. _



Bien sur ! C'est La Guerre !


----------



## Tynan (4 Jul 2017)

eh, who gave the initial penalty of the placing and points etc and who later disqualified him?

ah well and there was me ruing not picking him for my velo team

lord knows my team is a lost cause but Valverde, Sagan and Cav? out has to be helpful


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

He has "form" does Sagan, Vantomme got a shoulder charge in Gent-Wevelgem earlier in the year


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

I'm a Cav fan, but he has history, too.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

I'm going to have to go revise the PTP scoring, bollocks


----------



## roadrash (4 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> eh, who gave the initial penalty of the placing and points etc and who later disqualified him?
> 
> ah well and there was me ruing not picking him for my velo team
> 
> lord knows my team is a lost cause but Valverde, Sagan and Cav? out has to be helpful



I just said the same to mrs roadrash, penalty given then later changed to disqualified and in such a short time, does seem unusual,


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I just said the same to mrs roadrash, penalty given then later changed to disqualified and in such a short time, does seem unusual,



Looks like further analysis puts him at the centre of the first crash too.


----------



## Buddfox (4 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I just said the same to mrs roadrash, penalty given then later changed to disqualified and in such a short time, does seem unusual,



According to the BBC this was because Dimension Data challenged the initial penalty. I wasn't aware that there was a right of appeal.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> According to the BBC this was because Dimension Data challenged the initial penalty. I wasn't aware that there was a right of appeal.



That's going to set a precedent.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> According to the BBC this was because Dimension Data challenged the initial penalty. I wasn't aware that there was a right of appeal.



There isn't. That's BBC bullshit news for you.


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2017)

I'm not sure French bashing for hypothetical situations is any help. Just a shame that for us spectators, the sideshow sprints will be castrated by absences and the green jersey fight is lessened by Sagan' s gardening leave. Hey ho, the GC might kick off tomorrow!


----------



## dragon72 (4 Jul 2017)

And just when some were making the pie-in-the-sky suggestion that Sagan in Yellow on the Champs could happen. I guess we'll never know now.


----------



## MikeG (4 Jul 2017)

I'm not sure that Sagan was as guilty as we all first thought. Have a look at this.


----------



## rowdin (4 Jul 2017)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXwZczGqWls


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I'm not sure that Sagan was as guilty as we all first thought. Have a look at this.



I agree with that fully, although I didn't suspect anything iffy at all - just an unfortunate part of mass sprint and high speed finishes. 

Cav came up on the blind-side of Sagan. If you don't know someone's there, how can you deliberately 'attack' them?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I'm not sure that Sagan was as guilty as we all first thought. Have a look at this.



Haha


----------



## MikeG (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Haha



Not sure that helps anyone understand what your view of the video is.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Not sure that helps anyone understand what your view of the video is.



Have made it clear already. Page 35 I think - when it happened live. . .

The video you post only starts once Sagan had already caused the incident so thought it was funny in that it was so obviously misleading.


----------



## brommers (4 Jul 2017)

Will they appeal?


----------



## roadrash (4 Jul 2017)

thread is only at page 40


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> thread is only at page 40



Yes sorry have amended to 35 haha


----------



## MikeG (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Have made it clear already. Page 35 I think - when it happened live. . .
> 
> The video you post only starts once Sagan had already caused the incident so thought it was funny in that it was so obviously misleading.



No, the video quite clearly shows that Sagan did not elbow Cavendish. It should have started some 5 or 10 metres earlier, in which case it would have shown Sagan's change of direction, leaving Cavendish nowhere to go. Sagan was guilty of being reckless. He is pretty clearly not guilty of being malicious by elbowing a fellow rider. He should be punished by having time docked, or whatever, but he did not elbow Cavendish, and he should not have been DQ'd.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> No, the video quite clearly shows that Sagan did not elbow Cavendish. It should have started some 5 or 10 metres earlier, in which case it would have shown Sagan's change of direction, leaving Cavendish nowhere to go. Sagan was guilty of being reckless. He is pretty clearly not guilty of being malicious by elbowing a fellow rider. He should be punished by having time docked, or whatever, but he did not elbow Cavendish, and he should not have been DQ'd.
> 
> Oh, and whilst you claim that you made your view of the video clear pages back, you have only just seen the video, so I suggest that you




If that's what you think then fine. You're entitled to think whatever pleases you


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Have made it clear already. Page 35 I think - when it happened live. . .
> 
> The video you post only starts once Sagan had already caused the incident so thought it was funny in that it was so obviously misleading.


I thought Sagan had already made contact with Cavendish before Cav put his head into Sagan and the elbow simply finished off something Sagan had already started, or more diplomatically, caused to start.


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Jul 2017)

Late to the show as had to avoid social media today and watch the highlights,pesky feckin work ! Gutted for Sagan and Cav,was it deliberate ? Hard to say,sprints are agressive.Weve seen them all at some point ,heat of the moment stuff.Would we be complaining if it had been Bouhanni using his elbows or head as he likes ?.Myself i dont see it as 100% intentional,but its done and after yesterdays high,today its a low for Sagan


----------



## MikeG (4 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I thought Sagan had already made contact with Cavendish before Cav put his head into Sagan and the elbow simply finished off something Sagan had already started, or more diplomatically, caused to start.



I don't disagree with this, except the bit about the elbow finishing it off. Sagan's elbow made no contact with anything or anyone.


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2017)

bozmandb9 said:


> Aha. Ok. Go to your mirror and lift your right arm out high and wide, with the elbow out. You'll find it shifts your balance to the right. Your upper body, and your balance, follows your elbow, so it's not really possible what you're describing. Also the elbow is in contact with Cav, pushing him down, and the elbow doesn't come down, until the job is done, and Cav is out.


Well it's academic now as he's gone but watching it live and watching the various clips all give different impressions. Watching the whole sprint my intial impression was that Cav was going for a gap that wasn't there, he was just a little too late behind Demare as the sprint moved across the road.


----------



## rliu (4 Jul 2017)

To me everybody was swaying about the changing lines. The elbow from Sagan looks bad but it's just instinct and when you have adrenaline coursing through every inch of your body and trying to stay upright at 70kmph it's ridiculous to apply normal standards of logical thinking to the situation. Even the original punishment of docking Sagan 80 points and relegating him to last on the stage was slightly harsh to me, kicking him off the Tour altogether ridiculous, but I suppose not much more so than the instances when commissaires have kicked the likes of Bardet and Nibali off races for sticky bottle holding.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

Greipel thinks it a harsh decision having watched it, he earlier had a dig at Sagan and has now apologised. All on twitter.


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Greipel thinks it a harsh decision having watched it, he earlier had a dig at Sagan and has now apologised. All on twitter.


A while ago he was saying he was pissed at Sagan yesterday and today and wouldn't speak to him again.
Credit to him for apologising,there's a lesson in knee jerk reactions.


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2017)

Oh Nibali's long car tow DQ was much less ridiculous - it was a sticky bottle x100 and they get grumpy enough about the sticky bottles. Can't let that go unpunished.


----------



## rliu (4 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Oh Nibali's long car tow DQ was much less ridiculous - it was a sticky bottle x100 and they get grumpy enough about the sticky bottles. Can't let that go unpunished.


I agree it was egregious and not really fair sportsmanship, but it was with about 80km left in the stage if I remember correctly after he had a mechanical. It just came to mind as another example of something so many riders do and then a select few get crucified for it every now and then.


----------



## fossyant (4 Jul 2017)

Looking at the replay, Sagan went way off line - looking at the slow-mo coverage from the front. Slap for the stage, but not a race ban ?


----------



## Dave Davenport (4 Jul 2017)

fossyant said:


> Looking at the replay, Sagan went way off line - looking at the slow-mo coverage from the front. Slap for the stage, but not a race ban ?


I think that would have been fair.


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Jul 2017)

Stage disqualification at most.


----------



## lyn1 (4 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Well it's academic now as he's gone but watching it live and watching the various clips all give different impressions. Watching the whole sprint my intial impression was that *Cav was going for a gap that wasn't there,* he was just a little too late behind Demare as the sprint moved across the road.



The gap was there and adequate when Cav followed Demare into the space along the barrier. It would have remained providing Sagan had not tried to grab Demare's wheel, which necessitated a change of line thereby taking the space from another rider and putting him in the barrier. Guys often get away with line changes, but less so when it creates a big spill.


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 Jul 2017)

Anti Cav and anti Brit sentiment rife on other forums. Step up cycling News.


----------



## SWSteve (4 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> in the punditry competition only one person @ItsSteveLovell ,didn't include sagan in his picks for the green jersey, did he know something we didn't...



J'etait regardez mon boulé crystal, et voila


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I won't subject you to my worthless opinion, but I will say that I'm very sad that two such riders are out of the tour (or probably out in Cav's case).
> 
> It has rather spoilt the tour.


Couldn't agree more. Race will poorer for their absences


----------



## Winnershsaint (4 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Stage disqualification at most.


Agreed


----------



## fossyant (4 Jul 2017)

Sagan and Cavendish are on 'good terms' with each other usually - seems apology was made, but I guess there might be words knowing Cav.


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Jul 2017)

Take a look at @nedboulting's Tweet: 
View: https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/882347904618442752?s=09

Says it all.


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/100-speedcraft-tall-sagan-limited-edition-/rp-prod160033



Maybe there'll be a sale now!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I won't subject you to my worthless opinion, but I will say that I'm very sad that two such riders are out of the tour (or probably out in Cav's case).
> 
> It has rather spoilt the tour.


GCN reporting he is deffo out with a broken shoulder


----------



## fossyant (4 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> GCN reporting he is deffo out with a broken shoulder



Crap.


----------



## jarlrmai (4 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/882300130686377985


Not sure if this has been posted, Cav's hoods come into Sagan's wrist and his shoulders into the elbow of Sagan, Sagan moves his arm away from him as Cav comes into contact which contributes to Cav moving sideways and coming off, but by the time his elbow is extended Cav is already off There's just no room for bike and rider on the inside of Sagan, Cav went for a gap that wasnt there, look how compact he's trying to make himself, but still there's just no room there. A racing incident for sure but not DQ worthy IMO.


----------



## Jimidh (4 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> GCN reporting he is deffo out with a broken shoulder


That's a bummer for him and all of us who were looking forward to seeing what he could do in the tour.

No Cav or Sagan makes the tour a duller spectacle.


----------



## Beebo (4 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I won't subject you to my worthless opinion, but I will say that I'm very sad that two such riders are out of the tour (or probably out in Cav's case).
> 
> It has rather spoilt the tour.


We have all offered a worthless opinion. What makes you imagine your opinion is any more worthless than our amateur guff?


----------



## gavroche (4 Jul 2017)

The mountains are coming and neither Cav or Sagan would have played a role in it so still more excitement to come. Cycling is a dangerous sport and casualties sometimes happen, no matter who the riders are. Yes, it is bad to see both riders out of it but the Tour will go on.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

Good discussion today and interesting bifurcated views.

From my POV and regardless of intention from Sagan or whether or not the punishment was appropriate or not, I would have preferred Sagan to have remained on the tour with a hefty Points deduction as was the initial judgement.

This would have escalated the excitement and competition for the green jersey and not diluted it. Even if Demare does win green (which is far from certain) everyone will always think Sagan 'would have' won it and take the shine off any victory now.

Earlier in the thread there was a post of 'having a go at the French'. I LOVE France, the French and their Tour. However, they are notorious for bending the rules just sufficiently to see their guy win. I think we would be a touch naive to think this was not at play today in at least a small part.

For Cav fans such as myself who was on the line at Bastia and in Harrogate and on the Champs Elysees. At least we were not expecting him to win today anyway. Get well Mark.


----------



## thecube (4 Jul 2017)

why was Demare allowed to cut across Bouhanni? did the commissaires think that was OK? Some very dodgy decisions today.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (4 Jul 2017)

thecube said:


> why was Demare allowed to cut across Bouhanni? did the commissaires think that was OK? Some very dodgy decisions today.



Bouhanni despite being of the Tricolour is not the French Poster-Boy that Demare is.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> GCN reporting he is deffo out with a broken shoulder


Just read the same in the Grauniad, so it must be true. 

My 1.8 pence - Sagan moves across in a bad way, Cav leans in to rescue his space, Sagan instinctively elbows out to counter the lean and it all goes t1ts. Points loss, relegation and slapped back of legs. Shouldn't have been DQed.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2017)

thecube said:


> why was Demare allowed to cut across Bouhanni? did the commissaires think that was OK? Some very dodgy decisions today.


Boardman and others made the same point in the punditsphere. I guess because it didn't end up in carnage and, if you're cynical, because it resulted in a French stage win. Nacer isn't someone I'd want to pish off though.


----------



## david k (4 Jul 2017)

I thought Cav was looking really good there, I was sure he was going to win the stage, I'm gutted he missed that opportunity and has now left the tour

Sagan being disqualified is harsh, but maybe they want to make a statement


----------



## thecube (4 Jul 2017)

on the plus side, at least we don't have to see Sagan promoting his ski goggles again.


----------



## EasyPeez (4 Jul 2017)

Apologies if this has been asked already, but is there any rhyme or reason to when the itv player makes the day's highlights available? I got in late tonight and was looking forward to watching the action, but still no sign of today's highlights programme being available. I thought it normally appeared on the on-demand player within an hour or so of the highlights programme going out - i.e around 9pm?


----------



## lyn1 (4 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> View: https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/882300130686377985
> 
> 
> Not sure if this has been posted, Cav's hoods come into Sagan's wrist and his shoulders into the elbow of Sagan, Sagan moves his arm away from him as Cav comes into contact which contributes to Cav moving sideways and coming off, but by the time his elbow is extended Cav is already off There's just no room for bike and rider on the inside of Sagan, Cav went for a gap that wasnt there, look how compact he's trying to make himself, but still there's just no room there. A racing incident for sure but not DQ worthy IMO.




As it says on the tweet, that is the crash. It starts too late. Sagan started to close the gap earlier than that when he tried to get onto Demare's wheel. He is still coming across at the start of the video, judging by the angle of his wheel..


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

EasyPeez said:


> Apologies if this has been asked already, but is there any rhyme or reason to when the itv player makes the day's highlights available? I got in late tonight and was looking forward to watching the action, but still no sign of today's highlights programme being available. I thought it normally appeared on the on-demand player within an hour or so of the highlights programme going out - i.e around 9pm?



It's completely random, and often later than 11pm. Very frustrating. (It's not unique to Tour highlights either)


----------



## Jon George (5 Jul 2017)

There's an interesting question here, I feel, about punishment being appropriate to the results of the crime. To my eyes, it appears like every full-on sprint I have ever seen - bullish egos charging for the win - and that should be par for that type of finish. 
And after a few hours reflection, I find I cannot concur with the Chris Boardman's assessment that it is unfair that Segan is being punished for the _results_ of his actions, rather that his actions, in and of themselves (as others were doing something similar), and my argument is this: if you were to punch a person, you might be charged with assault, but if I were to punch a person, and they fell, hit their head and died, I might be charged with manslaughter. 
The results of a person's actions _do_ matter. 
Personally, I think if you design a stage for a sprint finish for entertainment, you should impose only the bare minimum of conditions on the egos fighting it out - they know the risks. 
The 2017 race will be slightly poorer for both their absences.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (5 Jul 2017)

Jon George said:


> There's an interesting question here, I feel, about punishment being appropriate to the results of the crime. To my eyes, it appears like every full-on sprint I have ever seen - bullish egos charging for the win - and that should be par for that type of finish.
> And after a few hours reflection, I find I cannot concur with the Chris Boardman's assessment that it is unfair that Segan is being punished for the _results_ of his actions, rather that his actions, in and of themselves (as others were doing something similar), and my argument is this: if you were to punch a person, you might be charged with assault, but if I were to punch a person, and they fell, hit their head and died, I might be charged with manslaughter.
> The results of a person's actions _do_ matter.
> Personally, I think if you design a stage for a sprint finish for entertainment, you should impose only the bare minimum of conditions on the egos fighting it out - they know the risks.
> The 2017 race will be slightly poorer for both their absences.



I think much of the punditry on ITV has been lacking today IMO. I usually subscribe to Eurosport as I think Carlton Kirby and Sean Kelly are unbeatable.

I have cheered at the top of my lungs seeing Miller going past on the Champs ahead of the peloton but he ain't a sprinter and he ain't a Classics man. And neither is Boardman.


----------



## mrbadexample (5 Jul 2017)

For me Sagan's wrong, but no real malice. Stage DQ yes, Tour DQ no.


----------



## BalkanExpress (5 Jul 2017)

Robbie McEwen's analysis. Something for everyone to agree, and disagree, with.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...hboard=tour-de-france&id=983158339921&yr=2017


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (5 Jul 2017)

Disappointed for both of them. Nothing can be done for Cav now but the race officials have it in their gift to reconsider the fate of Sagan. I don't suppose they will though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> ...as I think Carlton Kirby and Sean Kelly are unbearable.



TTFY...


----------



## PaulB (5 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> View: https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/882300130686377985
> 
> 
> Not sure if this has been posted, Cav's hoods come into Sagan's wrist and his shoulders into the elbow of Sagan, Sagan moves his arm away from him as Cav comes into contact which contributes to Cav moving sideways and coming off, but by the time his elbow is extended Cav is already off There's just no room for bike and rider on the inside of Sagan, Cav went for a gap that wasnt there, look how compact he's trying to make himself, but still there's just no room there. A racing incident for sure but not DQ worthy IMO.



I think you're wrong. Look at the direction Sagan is headed there. In the heat of the moment, he's trying to block Cavendish off. Whether that's malicious or a rush of blood to the head we can't know. Either way, it's a DQ for me.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2017)

Just spotted that Degenkolb had no broken bones; injured right shoulder and he'll see today how it is.


----------



## Rooster1 (5 Jul 2017)

Nasty nasty man. Just why.


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2017)

Froome's rivals need to get stuck in and try to mix things up from today and keep at it.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

PaulB said:


> I think you're wrong. Look at the direction Sagan is headed there. In the heat of the moment, he's trying to block Cavendish off. Whether that's malicious or a rush of blood to the head we can't know. Either way, it's a DQ for me.



Possibly its all interpretation really, is he trying to block a rider who is behind him or is he moving to get through the gap between the barrier and the rider in blue and red who then, almost immediately, moves in the other direction but Sagan is already moving that way.


----------



## Venod (5 Jul 2017)

The video in PaulsB's post above does look as if Sagan is guilty, if he had followed the wheel of Demare he would have being going left, but he chose to continue right to take out Cav.

Edited to take into consideration @jarlrmai post which is a good point.


----------



## mjr (5 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Nacer isn't someone I'd want to pish off though.


Oh Nacer's got plenty of people he's going to be more annoyed at! It seems like the whole bumping match starts with Griepel trying to shove Bouhanni off Kristoff's wheel - the predictable push-back makes Griepel wobble, but also results in Bouhanni swaying towards Demare, who moves right to avoid him and then Sagan leaves Bouhanni's wobbling wheels to go for Demare's, putting Cav into the fence and then blocking Bouhanni... I suspect Griepel's going to get a bit more pushing in the next few days


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Having watched countless slow-motion replays and different camera angles, my opinion of the incident... remains exactly the same as when I watched it live.

This is how I saw it unfolding as it happened and nothing I've seen subsequently has changed my mind:
• Cav was on Demare's wheel, but Demare was starting to pull away from him. Cav was already out of the race.
• Sagan saw Demare coming past and thought there was enough of a gap to jump onto his wheel but hadn't seen Cav coming up behind.
• The two came together, usual sprinters' argy-bargy, unfortunately Cav was hard up against the barrier with nowhere else to go...

Sagan may have been at fault - that's for the jury to decide and I'm glad it's not my call - but the DQ seems harsh.

Anyway, the race moves on, and today's finale should hopefully see some fireworks of a less controversial kind.


----------



## lyn1 (5 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Possibly its all interpretation really, is he trying to block a rider who is behind him or is he moving to get through the gap between the barrier and the rider in blue and red who then, almost immediately, moves in the other direction but Sagan is already moving that way.


Fair enough, but either way he is in the wrong, because you should not impede others through a change of direction.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2017)

I'm surprised that nobody has commented about the (head-on view) move to the left was partly as a result of Greipel's rear wheel sliding as he put down the hammer.


----------



## mjr (5 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has commented about the (head-on view) move to the left was partly as a result of Greipel's rear wheel sliding as he put down the hammer.


Was it? I thought his slide came after he tried to shunt Bouhanni.


----------



## lyn1 (5 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Having watched countless slow-motion replays and different camera angles, my opinion of the incident... remains exactly the same as when I watched it live.
> 
> This is how I saw it unfolding as it happened and nothing I've seen subsequently has changed my mind:
> *• Cav was on Demare's wheel, but Demare was starting to pull away from him. Cav was already out of the race.*
> ...




Don't buy that. From the overhead at the point where Sagan cuts across (immediately before the crash) Cav is only half a bike length behind Demare which is where he has been for a while.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

lyn1 said:


> Don't buy that. From the overhead at the point where Sagan cuts across (immediately before the crash) Cav is only half a bike length behind Demare which is where he has been for a while.



Does the overhead shot show how close Cav was to Demare just after they've come round that final right-hand bend, before Demare starts moving across to the barriers on the right? It looked to me like a matter of a few inches, and when Demare goes, Cav instantly loses a bit of ground as he tries to follow him.

Half a bike's length is admittedly not much of a gap at those kind of speeds though.


----------



## Bollo (5 Jul 2017)

David Millar on the live coverage is in a high dudgeon. He's just called out the commis as amateurs (fair) and suggested Bora Hangrohe sue the UCI (fantasy). Hope he has a good lunch.


----------



## Crackle (5 Jul 2017)

Well DD gambled on Cav for the tour, they're in a predicament now for World Tour points.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Tommy V in the break.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

This break looks serious business.


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Jul 2017)

Just start a new thread,with a poll such as Sagan hang him or not ?
Quite a few in that sprint 'moved about' as happens all the time.Do I think he was quilty or should have been kicked out ? No.
Race goes on,should be a good stage.


----------



## roadrash (5 Jul 2017)

some good riders in the breakaway


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Well DD gambled on Cav for the tour, they're in a predicament now for World Tour points.



Time for Stevo to step up and save their season!


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Thomas literally taking the piss.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Tommy V in the break.



_Quelle surprise_, as they say.


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Jul 2017)

It's all down to BMC today,too much class in that breakaway.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> _Quelle surprise_, as they say.



I've been waiting to say Tommy V in the break, it's how you know the TDF is up and running.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Richie Porte is obviously up for the fight today. It'll be interesting how far his team manage up the steep bits before he's isolated.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Richie Porte is obviously up for the fight today. It'll be interesting how far his team manage up the steep bits before he's isolated.





To be fair, he's got a much stronger team with him here than he had at the Dauphiné. Damiano Caruso in particular looked in superb form at the Tour de Suisse. Schär and Küng will be useful support too.


----------



## lyn1 (5 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Well DD gambled on Cav for the tour, they're in a predicament now for World Tour points.



They will be very disappointed about the loss of Cav because of the profile he gives sponsors and the Qhubeka cause and the riders will potentially lose some prize money, but they do not really care about the points. It's a free year with no relegation, so they are pretty much resigned to being bottom. How they restructure for next year and whether they continue with such a high African contingent will however, be very interesting.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

lyn1 said:


> It's a free year with no relegation



It is? I thought they were reducing the number of teams at the end of _this_ season, but I admit I'm struggling to keep up with the UCI's constant goalpost-moving antics...


----------



## lyn1 (5 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> It is? I thought they were reducing the number of teams at the end of _this_ season, but I admit I'm struggling to keep up with the UCI's constant goalpost-moving antics...


Yes, difficult to keep up with what is going on.My understanding is that it will be the team standings (all riders total scores) based on the established WT races only (not inc. the new ones), as of the end of 2018,


----------



## Crackle (5 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> It is? I thought they were reducing the number of teams at the end of _this_ season, but I admit I'm struggling to keep up with the UCI's constant goalpost-moving antics...


Yep, so did I, which is why I thought they'd gambled with Cav.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Yep, so did I, which is why I thought they'd gambled with Cav.


They gambled with Cav cos they didn't hold any other cards?


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

Sky train... eesh


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

will Froome attack G


----------



## Slaav (5 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> Sky train... eesh



If it works.... and to be fair, GT is in yellow and they are performing very well. I genuinely don't feel at all uncomfortable with the tactics nor with any slurs or insinuations. It is (IMHO) quite a sight when it works.

Bizarrely it reminds me of the HTC trains a few years back when they had one hell of a slick finish to sprint stages pre Cav joining Sky.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Aru jumps the train.


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

Slaav said:


> If it works.... and to be fair, GT is in yellow and they are performing very well. I genuinely don't feel at all uncomfortable with the tactics nor with any slurs or insinuations. It is (IMHO) quite a sight when it works.
> 
> Bizarrely it reminds me of the HTC trains a few years back when they had one hell of a slick finish to sprint stages pre Cav joining Sky.



Nothing but impressive IMHO


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> Sky train... eesh



BMC were doing all the work in the early parts of the stage, setting a hard pace. A lot of riders will be pretty cooked even before the climb started. Sky have just been sitting in the peloton, so they ought to be fresh enough.


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin could get this


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

The barriers all the way down this far are working well


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Dan Martin could get this



I do hope so!


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

G's gone. So has Fuglsang.


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

Aru looking strong here


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Aru looks soo strong


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> G's gone. So has Fuglsang.



And Quintana...


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Quintana's popped as well!


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Aru looks like a video of me climbing but sped up 4 times.


----------



## Buddfox (5 Jul 2017)

If the rest of the Tour is this competitive, we're in for a great couple of weeks. Great to see Dan Martin push on for second


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Great stage, last year we didn't see that kind of racing until much later.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

What was that stupid rat tail thing Pinot had swinging around his neck?


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Slightly disappointed in Porte getting pipped on the line by Froome. I thought he'd measured his effort well on the climb, not doing his usual over-eager puppy thing, but he clearly didn't have anything left at the finish.


----------



## Tynan (5 Jul 2017)

Aru! gawd he looked gutsy

and Richie 4th and Yates 6th, some much needed points for my propping up the bottom of the league team


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Yates nabs the white jersey. Yay!


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

Aru rose above


----------



## uncle_adolph (5 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What was that stupid rat tail thing Pinot had swinging around his neck?



Apparently he had some ice stuffed in ladies nylons.

Very French.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

uncle_adolph said:


> Apparently he had some ice stuffed in ladies nylons.
> 
> Very French.



Oo la la


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

Is there any way to tell the Yates twins apart? Would anyone know if they swapped post stage duties if both the same stage race...


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

Those in the Punditry will see I called out Aru, that combined with leaving Sagan out of my squad could make me the next Nostradamus


----------



## Tynan (5 Jul 2017)

Yes indeed and I cunningly left out Bardet, Sagan and Valverde and Cavendish

There is only one Yates in the race i assume?


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2017)

Yeah no Adam this year.


----------



## brommers (5 Jul 2017)

Looking at where they are in the GC, I would think that Orica will now focus their race on Yates rather than Chavez


----------



## brommers (5 Jul 2017)

The GC looks as though it's thinning out already. The likes of Mollema and Pinot are out of contention now.


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> The GC looks as though it's thinning out already. The likes of Mollema and Pinot are out of contention now.



Several of the 'second group' GC riders had dropped themselves out even in stage 3 - one of them was also quoted as saying something along the lines of 'we can't all drop time to win a stage, it won't work'


----------



## Tynan (5 Jul 2017)

woohoo, rising up the league like a rocket from 53,000ish to 'Overall Rank: 35846 of 54711'


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> woohoo, rising up the league like a rocket from 53,000ish to 'Overall Rank: 35846 of 54711'


Probably more appropriate to post punditry comments in the Velogames thread?


----------



## Tynan (5 Jul 2017)

oh, sorry,I thought it was all in here, i thought there was a lack of enthusiasm


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> oh, sorry,I thought it was all in here, i thought there was a lack of enthusiasm


Not a big deal, but not all who post on the Tour thread are in the Velogames fantasy game.


----------



## Shadow (5 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> The likes of Mollema and Pinot are out of contention now.


Getting ready to go for the polka dots?
And possibly, as they rode the Giro, were never really in contention.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2017)

Pinot today looked like a man who was very much making up the numbers rather than showing a genuine interest in the race. He wasn't just taking it easy and deliberately losing time so he could go for a stage win another day, he was totally cooked.


----------



## 400bhp (5 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> bifurcated



This is spooky

I hadn't heard that word before today and had to google it. That was when two people used it this morning completely independently.

You're not a fund manager are you? 

Three times in a day. Perhaps the stars are aligning or there's a crack in the Force?


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Jul 2017)

Only just watched today's stage,I'm surprised that Porte didn't have the legs for the stage today,some good rides though.Great win for Aru (borat ?) Looked strong as did Dan Martin and Yates.There was talk at the end of Froomes form ? Really he's in yellow and looked good enough to me.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> This is spooky
> 
> I hadn't heard that word before today and had to google it. That was when two people used it this morning completely independently.
> 
> ...


Pinot was totally bifarkated...


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Only just watched today's stage,I'm surprised that Porte didn't have the legs for the stage today,some good rides though.Great win for Aru (borat ?) Looked strong as did Dan Martin and Yates.There was talk at the end of Froomes form ? Really he's in yellow and looked good enough to me.


Hard to say yet. Aru has peaked for stage wins before but been unable to sustain it in the big mountains over 3 weeks. But the mountains aren't as crucial but we live in interesting times!


----------



## Disabledcyclist40 (5 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What was that stupid rat tail thing Pinot had swinging around his neck?


Looked like a pony tail /rat


----------



## themosquitoking (5 Jul 2017)

This looks like being a procession from now on, barring a disaster for Froome, where will anyone take any time from him? He's peaked on time, as usual, and no one else is good enough.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-porte-hoped-for-more-on-la-planche-des-belles-filles/
So Porte and BMC| pull the peloton along all day, even though Sky were in 1 and 2 in the GC. 
Li'l Rich even manages to lose time bonuses to to Froome and is now even further behind, yet he still thinks the pressure is on Froome and Aru!!!
Is that what they call rationalisation?


----------



## Starchivore (5 Jul 2017)

I actually think Porte has done pretty well. Obviously Froome is in the driving seat but Porte can grow into it, and who knows what opportunities might come up later on, with some of the unpredictable stages. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking from me- I'd like to see a real contest.


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2017)

Starchivore said:


> I actually think Porte has done pretty well. Obviously Froome is in the driving seat but Porte can grow into it, and who knows what opportunities might come up later on, with some of the unpredictable stages. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking from me- I'd like to see a real contest.


Well, as pre-tour favourite, losing time in the ITT and the first lumpy stage isn't ideal! 
He hasn't lost it yet, by any means, and maybe making a positive out of a negative is a good attitude .


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Jul 2017)

I found the negativity about froomes form odd,is he up to it,didn't win the stage.etc.As I said before he's in yellow ! He ain't doing too bad ! Some great riders with him as well,kwiatowski was something else yet again.Should be good anyway,I don't think there's much between a lot of the gc riders.I know theres lots who would like to see Froomey lose his crown,but I'm a massive fan of him so im hoping it's a fourth tour win.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2017)

Just had a look at the finale of tomorrow's stage. The final km is dead flat and mostly straight, except for a little dogleg at a roundabout inside the final 300m. Don't know if it will be enough to make things 'interesting', but we'll see...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Just had a look at the finale of tomorrow's stage. The final km is dead flat and mostly straight, except for a little dogleg at a roundabout inside the final 300m. Don't know if it will be enough to make things 'interesting', but we'll see...


Doesn't look to be too much of a embuggerance, although there is a narrowing of the road so positioning and everyone not being spread over the road would help.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)




----------



## Adam4868 (6 Jul 2017)

Sagancav# is done I know but liked this.

View: https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/882651661793144832


----------



## Lee_M (6 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What was that stupid rat tail thing Pinot had swinging around his neck?



Apparently it was a sock full of ice


----------



## suzeworld (6 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> Apparently it was a sock full of ice



I heard that, and was wondering how he'd been able to get that, at that point in the race ..


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2017)

#SAGIXT

anyone?


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2017)

suzeworld said:


> I heard that, and was wondering how he'd been able to get that, at that point in the race ..



Icebox in the in the teamcar? Friendly spectators/soigneurs with a feezer in the campervan.


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2017)

Simon Yates is not going to be easy to pick out in the peloton today - white jersey, dark shorts and yellow helmet - the same as Sky.


----------



## Shadow (6 Jul 2017)

For those of you with nothing better to do and are not economical with your viewing today and just to show Marmy does not have a monopoly on the Kirby/Sherwen/Duffield-isms, a while before the intermediate sprint, look out for something the french do spectacularly well, the magnificent triple span viaduct at Chaumont.


----------



## Lee_M (6 Jul 2017)

suzeworld said:


> I heard that, and was wondering how he'd been able to get that, at that point in the race ..


Team car and ice box i guess


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Simon Yates is not going to be easy to pick out in the peloton today - white jersey, dark shorts and yellow helmet - the same as Sky.



Just join the Sky Train and get some help up the hills.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Simon Yates is not going to be easy to pick out in the peloton today - white jersey, dark shorts and yellow helmet - the same as Sky.


Well, for today at least it's not really likely to matter is it cos he'll be hidden away just keeping safe and conserving energy. But point taken.


----------



## mjr (6 Jul 2017)

lyn1 said:


> They will be very disappointed about the loss of Cav because of the profile he gives sponsors and the Qhubeka cause and the riders will potentially lose some prize money, but they do not really care about the points.


If they did care about the points, gambling Cav's recovery would have been a bit daft. On a purely points bases, it would make sense to keep him for attempts on Cyclassics and RideLondon because the top 60 get points (compared to 5 on tour stages), with 50th at those worth more than 5th on a Tour stage and the top three positions worth more than treble those in a Tour stage, unless they've changed the points recently.

So I think Cav is at the Tour mainly because it's good for publicity and they're not paying attention to the points - unless they've already got a plan to buy a pointful rider in.


----------



## mjr (6 Jul 2017)

uncle_adolph said:


> Apparently he had some ice stuffed in ladies nylons.
> 
> Very French.


Discussed on a recent Velonews FastTalk podcast about racing in hot weather. An attempt at evaporative cooling, but he'd be better off drinking ice water before the climb IIRC.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Discussed on a recent Velonews FastTalk podcast about racing in hot weather. An attempt at evaporative cooling, but he'd be better off drinking ice water before the climb IIRC.


They usually have ice packs down their necks/upper back, an old sock seems a bit "French" to me...


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2017)

Sky probably have carbon nanotube aerogel graphene composite cooling tape designed by SpaceX.


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Sky probably have carbon nanotube aerogel graphene composite cooling tape designed by SpaceX.


What do you mean, probably?


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> What do you mean, probably?



it's under NDA so I can't confirm or deny.


----------



## Viking (6 Jul 2017)

Meanwhile....

Sagan's team are taking it to CAS

https://www.bora-hansgrohe.com/en/n...de-france-ausschluss-von-peter-sagan/10983587


----------



## suzeworld (6 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Meanwhile....
> 
> Sagan's team are taking it to CAS
> 
> https://www.bora-hansgrohe.com/en/n...de-france-ausschluss-von-peter-sagan/10983587



Wow, has anything like that ever succeeded before?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Meanwhile....
> 
> Sagan's team are taking it to CAS
> 
> https://www.bora-hansgrohe.com/en/n...de-france-ausschluss-von-peter-sagan/10983587





suzeworld said:


> Wow, has anything like that ever succeeded before?



I read the link address as Anschluss, so was going to reply "yes", then realised it was a bit of an extreme reaction even for a German cycling team.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

OMG, still 40 km of Ned and Dave's tourist guide to regional French mundaneness; have you guys been watching this all day every day? It's my first venture into the start to finish coverage. Jeezo.


----------



## roadrash (6 Jul 2017)

could be worse , you could be listening to kirbys shite


----------



## suzeworld (6 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> OMG, still 40 km of Ned and Dave's tourist guide to regional French mundaneness; have you guys been watching this all day every day? It's my first venture into the start to finish coverage. Jeezo.





roadrash said:


> could be worse , you could be listening to kirbys shite



I dunno what you think ANY of them can talk about for 4/5 hours every day .. really.
It reminds me of the cricket on the radio -- mosty lots of chuntering and cake with a few bits of sporting interest. I used to like that, back in the day, and I rather like having the tour on in the background now for the same reason .. it sounds like SUMMER! 

And I love Millar's posh voice anyway.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> could be worse , you could be listening to kirbys shite





suzeworld said:


> I dunno what you think ANY of them can talk about for 4/5 hours every day .. really.
> It reminds me of the cricket on the radio -- mosty lots of chuntering and cake with a few bits of sporting interest. I used to like that, back in the day, and I rather like having the tour on in the background now for the same reason .. it sounds like SUMMER!
> 
> And I love Millar's posh voice anyway.



Fair points, I have just had it on in the background and they are quite good at just chuntering away.

I just hope they are not hoping to entice new cycling fans, unless from those missing the cricket.


----------



## Viking (6 Jul 2017)

suzeworld said:


> Wow, has anything like that ever succeeded before?


I can't recall one like this and there are a few problems e.g will it be heard before the end of the TdF, how could they reinstate him if they won, is the judgment binding or just a view.

I guess they are after financial compensation. Can't see what else is in it for them apart from reputational damage - maybe


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Meanwhile Cav and Sagan are having a bromance on Twitter with Get Well Soon, Mark/ Proud to know you Peter
> Get a room.


It'll not be long before they are "knocking off" one another


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> how could they reinstate him if they won



I suppose the best they could do is reinstate his position on the stage, and rescind any fine/ban resulting from the disqualification.

Even if they did hear his case before the end of the race, there's no realistic way they could reinstate him, surely?



> is the judgment binding or just a view.



CAS's judgments are binding, afaik.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

That was great riding by Demare today, he really has stepped up his game this year and looks a proper sprinter.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> That was great riding by Demare today, he really has stepped up his game this year and looks a proper sprinter.


Mind, he did manage to dispense with a couple of his rivals the other day...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Mind, he did manage to dispense with a couple of his rivals the other day...


I reckon he'd be beating Cav easily and running Sagan close, pity we'll never know. But he looks a different rider this season, more confident and physically as well


----------



## Viking (6 Jul 2017)

Well that didn't take long. CAS have rejected the appeal

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cas-reject-bora-hansgrohe-appeal-to-return-sagan-to-tour-de-france/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Well that didn't take long. CAS have rejected the appeal
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cas-reject-bora-hansgrohe-appeal-to-return-sagan-to-tour-de-france/


Good, let's all move on


----------



## Viking (6 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Good, let's all move on


Agreed. I liked the Yates conversation with the podium staff when he got the white where they said "Hello again" and he replied "No. I'm a different one". No doubt confusion all round


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2017)

I've been listening to the cricket on the radio - Boyks, Aggers, Blowers - Bliss!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I reckon he'd be beating Cav easily and running Sagan close, pity we'll never know. But he looks a different rider this season, more confident and physically as well


His form does indeed look good. And he took 1st in today's intermediate sprint as well.


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> I can't recall one like this and there are a few problems e.g will it be heard before the end of the TdF, how could they reinstate him if they won, is the judgment binding or just a view.


They'll reinstate him just before the end of the Tour and he'll be waiting for the peloton on the outskirts of Paris.


----------



## roadrash (6 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I reckon he'd be beating Cav easily and running Sagan close, pity we'll never know. But he looks a different rider this season, more confident and physically as well



and as a bonus he leaves boohoohani standing


----------



## Tynan (6 Jul 2017)

I let out a shout of 'Come on Greipel' as if he were a West Ham striker clean through, rather like the West Ham striker it didn't happen

Gawd Kittel was a rocket, very impressive when seen from the overhead view, he came from a long way very fast indeed and made with plenty to spare

No cav or Sagan to get in his way


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> No cav or Sagan to get in his way



Can this please be the last time anyone makes this kind of comment please? 

Move the f*ck on!


----------



## SWSteve (6 Jul 2017)

What are BMC doing! Why were they chasing down the break when the sprinters teams weren't...surely they knew this stage didn't suit Richie


----------



## themosquitoking (6 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What are BMC doing! Why were they chasing down the break when the sprinters teams weren't...surely they knew this stage didn't suit Richie


Porte doesn't seem to be the most clued up tactically. I always imagine him like a puppy chasing a ball, until i hear him speak and then i'm transported straight into an undertakers office and wishing i was the corpse.


----------



## SWSteve (6 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> Porte doesn't seem to be the most clued up tactically. I always imagine him like a puppy chasing a ball, until i hear him speak and then i'm transported straight into an undertakers office and wishing i was the corpse.



It's like he's trying to replicate what he did at Sky, but isn't clued up tactically enough to execute it..or maybe the team aren't as strong as he was when a Domestique


----------



## MikeG (6 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What are BMC doing! Why were they chasing down the break when the sprinters teams weren't...surely they knew this stage didn't suit Richie



Well, if they had chased it down, and Sky hadn't..... It wasn't likely to work out that way, though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jul 2017)




----------



## themosquitoking (6 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It's like he's trying to replicate what he did at Sky, but isn't clued up tactically enough to execute it..or maybe the team aren't as strong as he was when a Domestique


Or maybe he still thinks he is Froomes super (super) domestique. Using up his team now so Froome doesn't have to use his too quickly.


----------



## 400bhp (7 Jul 2017)

I forgot to mention after the Planche stage on Wednesday, did anyone see Yates' interview.

He said "burnt my biscuits" 

That's a different take on burnt matches


----------



## 400bhp (7 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What are BMC doing! Why were they chasing down the break when the sprinters teams weren't...surely they knew this stage didn't suit Richie



You kinda want to shout at the telly "NOOO, LET SKY RIDE ON THE FRONT". They are just playing into Sky's (weakened) hands.

The only reason I can see is that they didn't want any echelons forming so kept the pace high, but it wasn't an echelon day was it


----------



## Fight.The.Power (7 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> You kinda want to shout at the telly "NOOO, LET SKY RIDE ON THE FRONT". They are just playing into Sky's (weakened) hands.
> 
> The only reason I can see is that they didn't want any echelons forming so kept the pace high, but it wasn't an echelon day was it



No day is an echelon day just from a map.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (7 Jul 2017)

But I will take to my grave the best words from Cav:-

"When echelons form it's like walking on breaking ice. You've got about three seconds to make it."


----------



## Fight.The.Power (7 Jul 2017)

BTW for the record and to try and gain some credibility to everyone here. Watch stage 13 Muffa Fukkas!!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (7 Jul 2017)

Watching the sprint today, and seeing the levels, Demare is like a bullish amateur. He did not know what wheel he was on and boxed himself in and gave max power 300m before the line! He nearly came a cropper like Cav against the barriers - and is equally exposed to criticism as he was the Sagan expulsion day too. Careful Demare! Things can bite you in the ass quicker than you smile !


----------



## Fight.The.Power (7 Jul 2017)

Just to put any criticism of my comments to rest before pointed to me as anti-French. I would have preferred Demare to win rather than the other guy? What's his name ?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Just to put any criticism of my comments to rest before pointed to me as anti-French. I would have preferred Demare to win rather than the other guy? What's his name ?


Richie Porte


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Just to put any criticism of my comments to rest before pointed to me as anti-French. I would have preferred Demare to win rather than the other guy? What's his name ?


Vladimir Putin?


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Vladimir Putin?


Fake news ! Or maybe not...


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> BTW for the record and to try and gain some credibility to everyone here. Watch stage 13 Muffa Fukkas!!



Are you planning to run alongside the riders in a mankini and Borat wig or something?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2017)

Has Philippa York been heard on ITV4 commentary yet? Any good? I mostly listen to ES.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Has Philippa York been heard on ITV4 commentary yet? Any good? I mostly listen to ES.


I read that yesterday,brave move.I think as long as she is good at commentary it's a good thing.Wonder who it will be with ? Listened/watched itv 4 all week,I like millar and boulting.
https://chpt3.com/blogs/journal/dear-millar


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2017)

Philippa is one of my favourite words to mangle; Flippala, is what she will be known as.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Has Philippa York been heard on ITV4 commentary yet? Any good? I mostly listen to ES.



I had to look up who Philippa York was... but I see no reason to expect her to be anything other than the astute commentator she always was under her previous identity.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

Ive always liked her stuff in rouleur


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Any interesting castles or landmarks yet today? I'm missing the background mutterings today.


----------



## Shadow (7 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think it's vineyards today


Indeed it is. Nuits Saint Georges - todays finish - is mostly a delicious red wine made from pinot noir grapes. No relation to Thibault.


Dogtrousers said:


> This is where they make grape-flavoured wine


Strangely, no wine tastes like grapes!!


Dogtrousers said:


> this is where they make a different kind of grape flavoured wine.


?????


Marmion said:


> Any interesting castles or landmarks yet today?


Not my area of expertise! ASO will no doubt have handed over the crib sheets to Kirby, Millar et al.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Any interesting castles or landmarks yet today? I'm missing the background mutterings today.



Did you know that today's finish town got its name from the fact that third-century dragon-botherer George of Lydda used to hang out here in his teenage years? Had a bit of a reputation locally as a party animal. The famous myth actually came about due to his love of heroin.


----------



## Shadow (7 Jul 2017)

Just checked the cellar and I can recommend Domaine Robert Chevillon's 2009 NSG - it is wonderful!!

About 20k south of NSG is Beaune, the capital of the Bourgogne region. If you want interesting castles, take a look at the Hospices de Beaune - a worthy institution.


----------



## Shadow (7 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did you know that today's finish town got its name from the fact that third-century dragon-botherer George of Lydda used to hang out here in his teenage years? Had a bit of a reputation locally as a party animal. The famous myth actually came about due to his love of heroin.


And you just happen to know this stuff?! Where do you recommend one may learn more?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> Just checked the cellar and I can recommend Domaine Robert Chevillon's 2009 NSG - it is wonderful!!



Googles... I should bloody well hope so at that price!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> And you just happen to know this stuff?! Where do you recommend one may learn more?



I've been watching the Tour on telly since the 80s. It rubs off on you after a while.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

I Cannae stretch to a decent Burgundy but spotted a decent enough Chilean pinot noir in the local co-op, it would be rude not to..


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Earlier on today, the letour site had a rambling and hastily translated piece about the fact that there's a crater on the moon called St George which is named as an anglicised version of "Nuits St Georges" because a character in the Jules Verne book "Around the Moon" had a bottle of "Nuits St Georges" wine with him. It was the landing place of Apollo XV.
> 
> It has now been replaced by the live commentary.
> 
> Edit: Some websites seem to claim that Apollo XV actually took a bottle of this wine to the moon. I suspect this to be cobblers.


Cobblers meaning nobody's been to the moon ?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Cobblers meaning nobody's been to the moon ?


http://www.classicmixology.com/cobblers/california_wine_cobbler/1900


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Does anyone remember Mookin Man? Did a song called 'Somebody's going to the Moon' that was on a free CD given away with the NME around 10 years ago.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> http://www.classicmixology.com/cobblers/california_wine_cobbler/1900


Regarding red wine I'm more of a "anything that's got above 13% on the label"
Back to the tour,another exiting stage has me on the lookout for rogue parasols.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Is it too far fetched to think that Sagan could be a GC contender, given this year's course?



Lemond says no:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-cycling-france-lemond-idUKKBN19O2FB

(OK, Lemond says he _shouldn't_ do it, rather than he _couldn't_ do it. The Wiggins comparison is interesting.)


----------



## Dave Davenport (7 Jul 2017)

Shadow said:


> About 20k south of NSG is Beaune, the capital of the Bourgogne region. If you want interesting castles, take a look at the Hospices de Beaune - a worthy institution.


We had a dinner in the Hospices at the end of a charity ride. Unsurprisingly, the setting, food and wine were fantastic.


----------



## Shadow (7 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I should bloody well hope so at that price!


Whatever you found is not what I would have paid!! But probably still worth it


smutchin said:


> I've been watching the Tour on telly since the 80s


Thats a huge amount of trivia to remember!


Marmion said:


> Cannae stretch to a decent Burgundy


nor me these days; still nice to dream...and if you like pinot noir, chile is the best value on the planet; sadly it only provides a glimmer of the good stuff!!


Dave Davenport said:


> We had a dinner in the Hospices at the end of a charity ride


how wonderfully amazing, how memorable; combines two of my passions - bikes and wine!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2017)

I'm on the beach getting my body the colour of pinot noir. I wonder if it's worth setting the remote Tivo recorded for another bloody sprint?


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

Take a look at @TV2SPORTdk's Tweet: 
View: https://twitter.com/TV2SPORTdk/status/883031115535183872?s=01


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

I don't think Demare was impressed at Bouhanni's attempt to bust in on his leadout train!


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Dead heat, surely!


----------



## Tin Pot (7 Jul 2017)

Wow thats close!


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2017)

there's no way they can separate them.


----------



## Tin Pot (7 Jul 2017)

Closer than close!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (7 Jul 2017)

EBH got that for me, but they have given to Kittel


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2017)

I don't see how you can give that to one or the other.


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

EBH can consider himself very unlucky.


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

Dead heat, IMHO.


----------



## Dave Davenport (7 Jul 2017)

Is there anything in the rules about a draw?


----------



## philk56 (7 Jul 2017)

Kittel was coming up very fast but surely a dead heat...


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Is there anything in the rules about a draw?



I believe it's ultimately down to the discretion of the finish judge, but I don't know if they're allowed to award a draw.


----------



## Tin Pot (7 Jul 2017)

Can't wait to hear their justification.


----------



## Milzy (7 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> EBH got that for me, but they have given to Kittel


They've got it wrong. I'm fed up of sprinters stages and wrong decisions this year.


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

Outrageous decision. The 'on line' still shows a dead heat.

Where's the evidence to the contrary?

The victory shared. 'Kin' obvious.


----------



## J1888 (7 Jul 2017)

Maybe they've blown up the pic x10000


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

Inrng on photo finishes:
http://inrng.com/2012/04/photo-finish-camera/


----------



## rualexander (7 Jul 2017)

philk56 said:


> Kittel was coming up very fast but surely a dead heat...
> 
> View attachment 360863


From the photo, Kittel is ahead by a fraction of a tyre, you can see slightly more of his tyre is into the red line.
But then again, do these photos take account of perspective?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2017)

I'd have given it to EBH but I do lament the way ties have become so devalued in an only-one-can-win culture. I actually find cricket ties particularly satisfying.


----------



## hoopdriver (7 Jul 2017)

I don't see how they could confidently award it to either. My sense in looking at the photo, and accounting for perspective, was that EBH has it, but that is only a sense - nothing objective. Surely there should be a case for declaring it a dead heat. If they are worried about setting a precedent - gosh, how often do you see _anything _this close?


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2017)

wait a minute, so basically the photo shows a line for 1st 2nd and 3rd but the lines for 1st and 2nd are so close it looks like one line but it's thicker than the 3rd line so presumably there's a definite difference so if you remove the 2nd line you'll see more of EBH's wheel meaning Kitten got it.


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

J1888 said:


> Maybe they've blown up the pic x10000



Maybe Quick-Step had more of a bonus to 'offer' the judges than DD.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2017)

Castroviejo's bidon bidet

https://u.nya.is/lhiooz.mp4


----------



## Bollo (7 Jul 2017)

Kittel won by 6mm or 3/1000th of a second according to the evening ITV highlights show, although ASO (or whoever) haven't released any high definition images of the photo finish.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Kittel won by 6mm or 3/1000th of a second according to the evening ITV highlights show, although ASO (or whoever) haven't released any high definition images of the photo finish.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

I think that is commonly known as a ball hair


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

Sorry to bring back the past, and apologies if it'e already been posted, but I've just seen this on Facebook clearly showing Sagan's *complete* innocence.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci6P69_T4p8


Hope that fackin' judge is forced to watch this and has to recompense Sagan.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

There's a reason to run bigger tyres ! Fast run in aswell up to 70 k


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I think that is commonly known as a ball hair


6mm ? Really


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I think that is commonly known as a ball hair



'Knat's cock' down my way.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> 'Knat's cock' down my way.


So I've been told...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> 6mm ? Really



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3tqIukBKg


----------



## MikeG (7 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> 'Knat's cock' down my way.



Gnat's cock around my way


----------



## Bollo (7 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> 6mm ? Really


And probably ginger as well!


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Gnat's cock around my way



Yeah, spelling mistakes from an Essexer.


----------



## themosquitoking (7 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> View attachment 360898


THe mpst interesting thing about this photo, out of a whole bunch of interesting things is the shape of their spokes.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> THe mpst interesting thing about this photo, out of a whole bunch of interesting things is the shape of their spokes.



Mad spiders are a go-go


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2017)

thats a sort of rolling shutter effect due to the slit used in the finish line camera


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2017)

Just spotted that Kittel is the first rider for 3 years to win back-to-back stages in the Tour. And he was the last rider to do so as well...


----------



## 400bhp (7 Jul 2017)

Would imagine the win was taken from chip timings rather than a photo in this case?


----------



## smutchin (7 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Would imagine the win was taken from chip timings rather than a photo in this case?



No, it was taken from 'enhanced' pictures - just been listening to them discussing it on the Cycling Podcast. Apparently Dimension Data have seen the pictures and are happy with the result.


----------



## Starchivore (7 Jul 2017)

I like Kittel but I was a bit disappointed for Bosan Hagen, thought it would have been well deserved.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Jul 2017)

Take a look at @Chris_Boardman's Tweet: 
View: https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/883427613699690496?s=01


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

At last, a stage that might be worth watching from the start to finish.

I see a few punditeers have it marked as a "Cummings" stage, I was thinking more a "climbers" stage with the potential for the GC lads still being there at the end with a few of the GC-distanced Frenchies. It'll be Steevo...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

I've just watched the last few kms of yesterday's stage, FDJ got a wee bit ahead of themselves. If they'd waited another km before burning themselves out then they'd had done a splendid job for Demare; as it was they looked like a bunch of tits.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I see a few punditeers have it marked as a "Cummings" stage, I was thinking more a "climbers" stage with the potential for the GC lads still being there at the end with a few of the GC-distanced Frenchies. It'll be Steevo...



It's a tough one to call. It'll probably end up being a GC day.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> It's a tough one to call. It'll probably end up being a GC day.



I've just edited my punditry pick to stick in a GC rider as well as a couple of Frenchies.

Also, I have mostly been watching ITV coverage but just watched the Eurosport highlights from yesterday; I much prefer ITV, Edwards is a bit of a tit.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I've just edited my punditry pick to stick in a GC rider as well as a couple of Frenchies.


Akshully...

Froome at 50/1, and Aru and Porte at 80/1 are decent enough prices to stick a quid on - and Pinot and Gilbert at 25/1


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did you know that today's finish town got its name from the fact that third-century dragon-botherer George of Lydda used to hang out here in his teenage years? Had a bit of a reputation locally as a party animal. The famous myth actually came about due to his love of heroin.



Is this the same st George of Portugal?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Is this the same st George of Portugal?


3rd cousin


----------



## psmiffy (8 Jul 2017)

I was way too early


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Jul 2017)

View: https://twitter.com/DoCiclismo/status/883336547168288768


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Now that's what I call Direct Energie!

(ETA: just noticed it's actually a Movistar rider. Duh!)


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Looking like a hard day . .


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

Oh for gods sake, Barguil a mile off the back


----------



## roadrash (8 Jul 2017)

gonna be a hard day for Demare and Rowe to make the time cut


----------



## 400bhp (8 Jul 2017)

Hmmm. Could be a rider currently out of top 10 who is in yellow by the end of the day.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Oh for gods sake, Barguil a mile off the back


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


>



He's back in now, it's okay


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

I haven't seen ads in a long time-but that Bora one is


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

The commissaires will be changing thumbing the rule book to make sure Demare does not get excluded due to time limit.


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The commissaires will be changing thumbing the rule book to make sure Demare does not get excluded due to time limit.



When turning on and saw 'gr Demare' I was confused as to how the grupetto formed before the first 'proper' climb, and then saw it was just him and a couple of others, what happened?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> When turning on and saw 'gr Demare' I was confused as to how the grupetto formed before the first 'proper' climb, and then saw it was just him and a couple of others, what happened?


No idea, just started watching it


----------



## jarlrmai (8 Jul 2017)

A hotly contested intermediate sprint was followed by a load of attacks.


----------



## philk56 (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> No idea, just started watching it


According to inrng he's suffering from an illness of some sort http://inrng.com/2017/07/tour-de-france-stage-8-preview-les-rousses/


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Akshully...
> 
> Froome at 50/1, and Aru and Porte at 80/1 are decent enough prices to stick a quid on - and Pinot and Gilbert at 25/1



Looking increasingly like the beers are going to be on you tonight.


----------



## jarlrmai (8 Jul 2017)

Is it just me or is ITV's advert schedule much better this year you can actually follow the race. This plus the commentary is really good.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Looking increasingly like the beers are going to be on you tonight.


I hope so, I'm away onto my turbo to cycle along with them for the last 40km so cheer for beer from one of the GC lads would be a good way to end


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Bit of an anti-climax really. Hopefully see the fireworks tomorrow.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Cracking ride by Calmejane. Really thought the peloton were going to catch the break.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Chapeau Calmejane, thought he was toast 5 mins ago.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Great ride by Guillaume Martin to hold on for third place too. Good day for the French... except the ones called Arnold.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I hope so, I'm away onto my turbo to cycle along with them for the last 40km so cheer for beer from one of the GC lads would be a good way to end


Oh well, it was a decent hour on the turbo, and thankfully I have beer in the fridge anyway


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Imlach is a little prick: "Breaking news, Chris Froome is OUT ---------- of the doping wagon..."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Whaur's Arnaud?


----------



## Tynan (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The commissaires will be changing thumbing the rule book to make sure Demare does not get excluded due to time limit.


indeed, just what I was going to post


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Whaur's Arnaud?
> 
> View attachment 360998



LMAO very funny


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just out of interest,are there any real recent examples of the commisaires favouring French riders? Or is it just an anti French meme?
> Genuine question, as I have a memory like a sieve.



It's not Anti-French it's just a fact.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (8 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Great ride by Guillaume Martin to hold on for third place too. Good day for the French... except the ones called Arnold.


Have you listened to The Cycling Podcast interview with Martin ? Did his Master's thesis on Neitzsche and last year wrote a play about Plato.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Have you listened to The Cycling Podcast interview with Martin ? Did his Master's thesis on Neitzsche and last year wrote a play about Plato.



I was listening to it in bed when I was very tired and dozed off, so only half heard it. Must go back and listen to it properly. He's an interesting character.

He finished second on the second stage of the Tour du Jura Cycliste a month or so back, which had an almost identical route to today's stage.


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just out of interest,are there any real recent examples of the commisaires favouring French riders? Or is it just an anti French meme?



I thought it was a bit of a joke - or at least, not to be taken too seriously.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Weather looks interesting tomorrow. Might play into Bardets' hands or prove his undoing.


----------



## gavroche (8 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> It's not Anti-French it's just a fact.


Roman Bardet is French and he got disqualified in Paris-Nice this year if my memory is right.
There, corrected, that bloody predictive text doesn't like French words.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just out of interest,are there any real recent examples of the commisaires favouring French riders? Or is it just an anti French meme?
> Genuine question, as I have a memory like a sieve.



I cannot think of any, there is plenty "pro Brit" and "anti everyone else*" twittering.

* some, like my comment, directed in jest at the French commissaires. 

The Italians and Spanish on the other hand...


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (8 Jul 2017)

Random question, would anyone miss the stills photos from the Tour ? Struck me as I watched one of the many stills photographer-carrying motorbikes squeeze its way past the peloton today. These guys spend the entire stage stopping to take a picture, squeezing their way past, stopping to take another picture, squeezing their way past etc etc. The race would be a lot safer without them.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I cannot think of any, there is plenty "pro Brit" and "anti everyone else*" twittering.
> 
> * some, like my comment, directed in jest at the French commissaires.
> 
> The Italians and Spanish on the other hand...



From my experience and Twitter aside - as it all depends on who you follow . . . 

The cycling fraternity generally does not have much patience for British riders and especially Team Sky.

Myself on the other hand (so as others do not misinterpret anything) am completely without National allegiance. I am all for the guy that bled the most to win the race.

Don't like Kittel, but that's just cuz I think he's an arse.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Don't like Kittel, but that's just cuz I think he's an arse.


How very dare you! The Beautiful Marcel reigns supreme.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Random question, would anyone miss the stills photos from the Tour ? Struck me as I watched one of the many stills photographer-carrying motorbikes squeeze its way past the peloton today. These guys spend the entire stage stopping to take a picture, squeezing their way past, stopping to take another picture, squeezing their way past etc etc. The race would be a lot safer without them.



ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!! But the ASO is VERY money oriented. Why you think Tinkoff left. They give the teams and riders fark all. If an extra photo gets an extra Euro then fark safety.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> How very dare you! The Beautiful Marcel reigns supreme.



If only there was a 'dislike' button


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

Brice Feillu was a bit of a blast from the past today; it wasn't so long ago that he and Romain were supposed to be the next "best things" from France.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

I see Arnaud Demare has taken to social media to thank Konovalovas and Delage for getting him home on time today, calling them his "guardian angels". 

I like Arnaud. He's a good guy. I also like FDJ. Sometimes despite Marc Madiot, sometimes because of him.


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I see Arnaud Demare has taken to social media to thank Konovalovas and Delage for getting him home on time today, calling them his "guardian angels".
> 
> I like Arnaud. He's a good guy. I also like FDJ. Sometimes despite Marc Madiot, sometimes because of him.




I don't know why Madiot is disliked, loads of great points 


He doesn't value the GC
Loves 'cross
Gives his riders a proper national champions jersey


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I don't know why Madiot is disliked, loads of great points
> 
> 
> He doesn't value the GC
> ...


He also sometimes speaks a right lot of cock


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2017)

I would think tomorrow's stage (9) would be perfect for Bardet, if it wasn't for the club10 at the end of the stage


----------



## Starchivore (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> How very dare you! The Beautiful Marcel reigns supreme.


----------



## ColinJ (9 Jul 2017)

Starchivore said:


> View attachment 361127


The trouble with beautiful people is how much time they spend looking in mirrors trying to make themselves beautiful, and then more time admiring their handiwork!


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (9 Jul 2017)

Somebody on Twitter asking why this lass Lillian 'Call me Jane" isn't riding the women's races.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (9 Jul 2017)

They are saying on TCP that Calmejane studied at uni in Nottingham. I wonder if anyone here can verify ?

Edit - and here's the evidence


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> They are saying on TCP that Calmejane studied at uni in Nottingham. I wonder if anyone here can verify ?
> 
> Edit - and here's the evidence
> 
> View attachment 361141


They mentioned something on ITV coverage yesterday, I wasn't paying full attention, but I think it was mentioned he studied in the UK for a few (4?) months.

And here's an article:
https://eurissimo.wordpress.com/201...on-e-midlands-club-10s-grand-tour-stage-wins/


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

OK Ladies, put your lipstick where it won't melt. And buckle down for the deciding stage. If bad weather hits us (And God I hope it does) it could be a historic stage.

A good day to be out of the Aquarium looking in n'est pas.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> He also sometimes speaks a right lot of cock



Yes

But we still love him.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> They mentioned something on ITV coverage yesterday, I wasn't paying full attention, but I think it was mentioned he studied in the UK for a few (4?) months.
> 
> And here's an article:
> https://eurissimo.wordpress.com/201...on-e-midlands-club-10s-grand-tour-stage-wins/



From that article -


> _*C!* How did you enjoy the Club 10’s? Not that I’m really sure it’s possible to ‘enjoy’ those violent little efforts though!_
> 
> *LC:* At this time I was very surprised and excited by this kind of event because in France you don’t have the culture of time trial and often you can’t do this on the road because people are more and more annoyed by riders.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Right bacon sandwich, dog walk, shoot, sobering coffee, wash hands and get dressed. But not necessarily in that order.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

I was loving the f word replacement yesterday as nothing was lost in translation. Today's profanity exchange makes me sound American which I object to. Must I really say poo in future ?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Not long until the start of Part 2 of "waiting for Arnaud"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> From that article -


There does seem to be a bit of a driver v rider battle on the roads of France; a few "high profile" events e.g. Offredo being assaulted with a baseball bat and a blade earlier this year. Demare also tweeted that his cousin was knocked off his bike earlier this week by someone aiming a car at him, I think on the same day as Demare won a stage (or the day before/after)


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Not long until the start of Part 2 of "waiting for Arnaud"



We wait. We are bored. No, don't protest, we are bored to death, there's no denying it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

This is a good "what might happen on today's stage" article by Greg Henderson:
https://www.coachhendy.com/single-post/2017/07/08/Why-This-Stage-Is-Gonna-Hurt

I have a 50p bet on de Gendt.

And 50p on Roglic, Kiserlovski and Cummings.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Feck me, it's Boris on the zipwire


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> This is a good "what might happen on today's stage" article by Greg Henderson:
> https://www.coachhendy.com/single-post/2017/07/08/Why-This-Stage-Is-Gonna-Hurt
> 
> I have a 50p bet on de Gendt.
> ...



De Gendt - 50p wasted 

Cummings spent a lot yesterday he told us that.

Kiserlovski has done poo like this just once and that was years ago and certainly not with Sky

Roglic - ok

I actually fell into professional cycling through gambling. Lost a fortune on Voeckler.


----------



## Tynan (9 Jul 2017)

ouch to the eyetie yelping and holding his shoulder i recognise that noise after my recent dislocated kneecap


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

I don't think that Demare is going to last much longer


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> ouch to the eyetie yelping and holding his shoulder i recognise that noise after my recent dislocated kneecap



Jeez what did I miss ????


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Think I want Bardet to win today !!

On a Ragga Tip


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Did I just hear that on ITV "This the overture" ??


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Jeez when does the commentary start


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

been commentary since 10.30 when they started, how/where are you watching


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

There is racing taking place but we're listening to cafe chit chat


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> been commentary since 10.30 when they started, how/where are you watching



Watching ITV4 - UK


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

I mean I thought Jonathan Edwards was bad but crikey it's like talking to La Doyenne this


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Modern Phenomena is high cadence ???


----------



## Tynan (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Jeez what did I miss ????


 three fellas went down 30 mins ago, one ok, one scraped and one down and staying down and very unhappy, looked like dislocated or at least battered right shoulder, Mori i think his name was, announced as abandoned shortly afterward


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> three fellas went down 30 mins ago, one ok, one scraped and one down and staying down and very unhappy, looked like dislocated or at least battered right shoulder, Mori i think his name was, announced as abandoned shortly afterward



Cheers matey.

The only Mori I know is out of Goodfellas and he sold wigs lol


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> De Gendt - 50p wasted
> 
> Cummings spent a lot yesterday he told us that.
> 
> ...



de Gendt, Kiserlovski and Roglic all in the lead group...



Tynan said:


> three fellas went down 30 mins ago, one ok, one scraped and one down and staying down and very unhappy, looked like dislocated or at least battered right shoulder, Mori i think his name was, announced as abandoned shortly afterward



Mori and Gesink both out due to the crash.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> de Gendt, Kiserlovski and Roglic all in the lead group...
> 
> 
> 
> Mori and Gesink both out due to the crash.



Haha fair enough. Gonna throw it down soon which should be to your advantage too.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> de Gendt ... in the lead group...



Think you've jinxed him...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

HF2300 said:


> Think you've jinxed him...



Nah. Just a bad idea from the start.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Rain, Rain Rain, Rain. Beautiful Rain.

Rain, Rain Rain, Rain. Beautiful Rain.

All come to me, beautiful rain ☔️


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Gonna be interesting how BirdSong does today. Was it a one-off or graduation?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

No Spartacus today to halt proceedings when everyone starts flying into bushes getting off The Cat.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Go Roglic !!!


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Primped was primed for that Biche


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Bet Nibali is drooling with what he could have accomplished today.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Fat Betancur lol


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

My spider sense is worried for Bardet


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Herrada out


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Jeez not G again


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Ooops!


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Thomas down: Shocked, so shocked


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Mrs M has just commented "He's always on the deck that Thomas guy"


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

G.Thomas on the deck


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Thomas down: Shocked, so shocked



Yeh happens a bit too often.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Edgy descending this; I love it


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Excitement needle moving higher . . .


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2017)

It will all come back together at the next climb


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Fantastic riding by Bardet


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> It will all come back together at the next climb



Probably but it's only a small descent ?

Quite a few have been dropped though.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Jeez AG2R winning the Tour would be enough of a reason to make the jump over La Manche.

Ok I've finally found the guy I want to win. C'mon Bardet !!!!!


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Cor AG2R just blew this apart! COME ON ROMAN!!!!


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

Thomas abandons


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Gravity Thomas out


----------



## rich p (9 Jul 2017)

Fancy GT hitting the deck...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Betanfat struggling lol


----------



## Tynan (9 Jul 2017)

ha, more points for my GC riders and perhaps a little less use of 'Team Sky controlling the peleton'


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> ha, more points for my GC riders and perhaps a little less use of 'Team Sky controlling the peleton'



Sky will belt it up the final climb.


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

not looking good for majka according to bora hes struggling after crash


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

Contador on the deck


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Sky will belt it up the final climb.



If they have a 'train' left that is lol


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

interesting:



> 14:39Jonathan Vaughters: "Uran can't be mentioned"
> 
> About twenty riders form the yellow jersey group. One of them is Rigoberto Uran who remains well hidden. Jonathan Vaughters (Cannondale-Drapac team manager) told letour.com this morning: “The team has actually been set up more for stage wins than for the GC. Therefore the tactics are simple. Well' try to get as many guys as possible in the break and see what happens. Rigo(berto Uran) is doing pretty well. He's the rider nobody talks about. He's the name you can't mention.”


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> interesting:



Would eat my hat . . .


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Only 20k of flat David Millar. Don't think winds gonna be a 'massive advantage'.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2017)

This ITV bloke (Matt Smith?) has such a dull voice.


----------



## Tynan (9 Jul 2017)

Demare apparently left by his other team riders


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Herrada out


Looks like the letour.fr ticker got that one wrong as he's back on his bike and still in


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Demare apparently left by his other team riders



Suggests they don't think he'll make the cut or is going to abandon.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

That intermediate sprint for Matthews was practically like a stage win for him. Well done.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> This ITV bloke (Matt Smith?) has such a dull voice.



Yup went out when he came back on to exercise the dog. Would rather have an episode of Wacky Races played over than his drones.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Just caught a glimpse of the profile of the final climb and it indeed looks like a cat !


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)




----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Hold on, can you attack the yellow jersey


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Oooh, Aru being Dr. Evil...........


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Quintana suddenly became the arbiter of the unwritten rules and pulled Aru back - I didn't think that his style


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

don't think quintana pulled him back, more a case of went with him


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> don't think quintana pulled him back, more a case of went with him



My sarcasm probably don't come across


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Great to see Uran up there today


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

It may be my imagination but Froome seems to be directing his focus back at Aru as he attacks


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

What a wierd crash?


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

horrible crash


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Can they please stop showing tenPorte crash


----------



## suzeworld (9 Jul 2017)

God do they have to keep showing that .. awful .. I thought Porte's neck was snapped at one point. Jeez ...


----------



## Bollo (9 Jul 2017)

Porte looks in a bad way. Agree about the slow mo repeats. Not needed.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin once again has the worst or luck.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Porte's ok. It looked worse than it was. Might have bust his collar bone.


----------



## suzeworld (9 Jul 2017)

I thought someone earlier said this was an easy descent! It's weaving like a spiraliser


----------



## Tynan (9 Jul 2017)

ouch and farking hell


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Why work with Froome ??


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Why work with Froome ??


Bardet can leapfrog Aru in GC


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bardet can leapfrog Aru in GC



Playing for second pffff


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Bardet still just holding this gap


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

By the cringe!


----------



## Dayvo (9 Jul 2017)

Another dead heat?


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Barguill takes the stage and the spotty shirt, wonderful


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Barguill takes the stage and the spotty shirt, wonderful



Uran beat him. Bugger


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Looks like I have a hat to eat ! Well done Uran.


----------



## Winnershsaint (9 Jul 2017)

Uran!


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Looks like I have a hat to eat ! Well done Uran.




do you want salt and pepper with the hat


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Hah! What a stage. Proves you only need two gears on a bike.


----------



## Bollo (9 Jul 2017)

Flip!


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

how the hell did they get that decision wrong


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2017)

That was some stage!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

What a stage.


----------



## Dayvo (9 Jul 2017)

Is Porte out?

Haven't heard anything from Eurosport here yet.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

I guess Froome will be ejected due to the shoulder clash with Aru


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

As Boardman just said, can't understand why they worked with Froome in the end. Should have let him do all the work bringing Bardet back himself IMO.


----------



## booze and cake (9 Jul 2017)

One of the most exciting, full attack days of the TDF I've ever seen, I'm knackered just from watching!

They are going to struggle to get it all into the highlights prog later, pure Hollywood.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

Any news on Richie Porte?


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Any news on Richie Porte?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Is Porte out?



Yes.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

And now the wait to see if Arnaud et al make it...


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

'more fear than harm' according to google translator


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

INRNG reporting the time cut is likely to be 36 min 50 secs so about another 10 minutes to get home


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> And now the wait to see if Arnaud et al make it...


Well, they don't start again 'til Tuesday


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Gesink has tweeted that he has a fractured vertebrae (L1), he managed to pass the time in A&E watching the telly


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> INRNG reporting the time cut is likely to be 36 min 50 secs so about another 10 minutes to get home


FDJ reporting they reckon Demare is at 40 minutes. He'll need a burst of speed!


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Gesink has tweeted that he has a fractured vertebrae (L1), he managed to pass the time in A&E watching the telly


True Pro


----------



## Dayvo (9 Jul 2017)

A very sorry-looking GT now out with a broken collarbone. 

A lot of big names are, literally, falling. 

Hope all make quick recoveries.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

The gruppetto make the time cut by 2 minutes. No mention of Arnaud yet.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The gruppetto make the time cut by 2 minutes. No mention of Arnaud yet.


Bad day for FDJ - Arnaud Demare, Mickaël Delage, Ignatas Konovalovas and Jacopo Guarnieri didn't make the time cut


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Time for the old French commissaires magic rulebook


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

Did he beat the other 3 at the intermediate sprint?


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> As Boardman just said, can't understand why they worked with Froome in the end. Should have let him do all the work bringing Bardet back himself IMO.



It's getting boringly predictable unfortunately this type of racing vs froome. Why didn't Astana mix it up. They do the work only for aru to actually lose time on froome. Muppets


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2017)

Class win by Uran Uran

One gear


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> One gear


A good one though!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Demare and the other 3 FDJ finished 20 minutes outside time limit.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Demare and the other 3 FDJ finished 20 minutes outside time limit.


Close then
Kittel will have to do without Trentin, his main lead-out man, who was also OTL


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

12 riders out today

*Out of time:*
Juraj Sagan
Arnaud Demare
Mickael Delage
Jacopo Guarnieri
Ignatas Konovalovas
Matteo Trentin
Mark Renshaw

*DNF:*
Richie Porte
Robert Gesink
Geraint Thomas
Jos van Emden
Manuele Mori


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin tweeting to say that after his crash with Porte he arrived at the next hairpin to find he had no front brake...


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Dan Martin tweeting to say that after his crash with Porte he arrived at the next hairpin to find he had no front brake...


Blimey, I didn't think he'd got back on the same bike.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Dan Martin tweeting to say that after his crash with Porte he arrived at the next hairpin to find he had no front brake...



That might explain the reports of a second crash!

Feel sorry for Porte, that looked very nasty, but it was a bike handling error on his part. What I'm really gutted about is that he took out Dan Martin at the same time - seriously impressed that Dan didn't lose too much time, but it's still probably enough to put him out of GC contention.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> 12 riders out today
> 
> *Out of time:*
> Juraj Sagan
> ...



Is this post what you might call a Memento Mori?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Geraint's x-ray


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

That looks all right to me.


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

nowt gaffer tape and zip ties couldn't fix....


----------



## roadrash (9 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> That might explain the reports of a second crash!
> 
> Feel sorry for Porte, that looked very nasty, but it was a bike handling error on his part. What I'm really gutted about is that he took out Dan Martin at the same time - seriously impressed that Dan didn't lose too much time, but it's still probably enough to put him out of GC contention.



couldn't agree more I would love to have seen dan martin on the GC podium


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

Broken collarbone and hip for Richie Porte


----------



## BalkanExpress (9 Jul 2017)

how wonderfully amazing said:


> Bike and wine...you are Cadel Evans and I claim my £5.
> 
> 
> Okay, a bid harsh on Cuddles in his later years but during the using Armstrong's body guard years there was a lot of , err, whining.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Dan Martin tweeting to say that after his crash with Porte he arrived at the next hairpin to find he had no front brake...



Wasn't he on a neutral bike?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Wasn't he on a neutral bike?


No idea, his front brake was neutral


----------



## themosquitoking (9 Jul 2017)

Think he had neutral wheels.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (9 Jul 2017)

UPDATE: no fractures for @majkaformal but heavy contusions. we will see how he feels tomorrow and then decide if he can continue #TDF2017


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Wasn't he on a neutral bike?





Marmion said:


> No idea, his front brake was neutral





themosquitoking said:


> Think he had neutral wheels.



Just watched ITV highlights and they mentioned Mavic service assistance and that he was on his own bike as his own car was not there. So it looks like he set off with new wheels from Mavic car and his own bike with broken front brake.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2017)

The highlights clearly showed Dan Martin got back on his own bike with two neutral service wheels put on it.

They also said in the highlights that Dan Martin hit Urans dérailleur in the crash and that is what knackered his gears up. Pretty impressive riding that distance at that pace with effectively two gears.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Just watched ITV highlights...





Supersuperleeds said:


> The highlights clearly showed...



Perhaps "watched" was not actually what I was doing, more "almost paying attention to what was being said without watching the pictures too closely"


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2017)

Just caught the end of the +1 show - looks like the tour claimed a number of great riders today.


----------



## themosquitoking (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Just watched ITV highlights and they mentioned Mavic service assistance and that he was on his own bike as his own car was not there. So it looks like he set off with new wheels from Mavic car and his own bike with broken front brake.


Brake blocks in not quite the right place possibly or no one tightened up the cam maybe.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Jul 2017)

Just watched,great stage.Full gas all day, Some horrendous crashes,get well soon ! Saw a pic of Dan Martin's helmet on social media,took some whack by the look of it.
Great racing though,knackered just watching.it. Chapeau to Froomey,rode a blinder.


----------



## MikeG (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Broken collarbone and hip for Richie Porte



Damn. Collarbone by itself would only mean 2 or 3 weeks out. Hip.........that's a different story. He'll be a sore chap this evening.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Broken collarbone and hip for Richie Porte





MikeG said:


> Damn. Collarbone by itself would only mean 2 or 3 weeks out. Hip.........that's a different story. He'll be a sore chap this evening.



BMC state it's clavicle and pelvis, looking at (potentially) 4 weeks off
http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/au-e...de_france_with_fractured_clavicle_and_pelvis/


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2017)

Giving these kind of accidents a slightly positive spin, which is probably a poor way of expressing it but you catch my drift I hope, the Vuelta often benefits from big name abandons in the Tour.


----------



## Adam4868 (9 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> BMC state it's clavicle and pelvis, looking at (potentially) 4 weeks off
> http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/au-e...de_france_with_fractured_clavicle_and_pelvis/


Hope so,but.four weeks seems optimistic.


----------



## Va Va Froome (9 Jul 2017)

That was some stage. Looked like one to watch when the pre-race preview were being done, and it did live up to the hype.

So many stories and reasons to want different ones to win the stage. High drama right to the end.

I hate reading about collar bone breaks, always make me shiver.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> Brake blocks in not quite the right place possibly or no one tightened up the cam maybe.


Just seen headcam footage from Mavic motorcycle which provided the wheels and it looks as if the person who put the wheel in did pull the brake levers on to check they were operating, but given the speed it was done at possibly didn't check the functioning of the blocks


----------



## Strathlubnaig (10 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Class win by Uran Uran
> 
> One gear


two


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Just seen headcam footage from Mavic motorcycle which provided the wheels and it looks as if the person who put the wheel in did pull the brake levers on to check they were operating, but given the speed it was done at possibly didn't check the functioning of the blocks



I've heard possibly a narrower rim on the neutral wheel so the brakes didn't close with any stopping power.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2017)

Quote from Simon Yates...

" I almost got dropped from my group, but I’m happy with my ride. I gave everything that I had. I’m looking forward to the rest day because I’m absolutely farked. Sorry. I don’t know another word to describe it.”


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> I've heard possibly a narrower rim on the neutral wheel so the brakes didn't close with any stopping power.



That sounds plausible. 

I was wondering if he might have had carbon wheels swapped for alloys, and therefore had the wrong type of brake pads, but that's just a complete guess and I don't know how much difference it would make anyway.


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2017)

I wonder if Dan had been riding discs would he have been able to complete the stage without taking a massive time loss.


----------



## hoopdriver (10 Jul 2017)

That's an interesting point...


----------



## SWSteve (10 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> That sounds plausible.
> 
> I was wondering if he might have had carbon wheels swapped for alloys, and therefore had the wrong type of brake pads, but that's just a complete guess and I don't know how much difference it would make anyway.



Aren't carbon specific pads very hard, so they probably wouldn't do much. Have heard 'normal' pads get torn to shreds on carbon wheels


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2017)

Looking at photos the neutral wheels are carbon braking surface.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (10 Jul 2017)

"After his bad crash yesterday in one of the downhill sections, the BORA – hansgrohe leader suffers from heavy contusions and lost a lot of skin. Together with his BORA – hansgrohe Team, Majka decided to leave the Tour de France. After some rest to recover, he will refocus and prepare for the rest of the season."


----------



## mjr (10 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> That sounds plausible.
> 
> I was wondering if he might have had carbon wheels swapped for alloys, and therefore had the wrong type of brake pads, but that's just a complete guess and I don't know how much difference it would make anyway.


Any road up, Dan Martin fails Bikeability Level 1 for not testing his brakes before riding off!


----------



## Tynan (10 Jul 2017)

I think he was in a hurry

Is it just me or does he give Porte a real offs look as he gets up and starts to pick up his bike?

Any news on Porte's bike last seen heading down a tree littered ravine? There might a bit more than the front brakes wrong with that one.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (10 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> I think he was in a hurry
> 
> Is it just me or does he give Porte a real offs look as he gets up and starts to pick up his bike?
> 
> Any news on Porte's bike last seen heading down a tree littered ravine? There might a bit more than the front brakes wrong with that one.



It looked like he was about to have a right moan at him but then he realised that Porte wasn't getting up and rightly got on with his race. Would be great if he could get on the podium, but I think he will have to settle for a top 10.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Jul 2017)

Majka deffo oot


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (10 Jul 2017)

So Majka took out Trentin and Thomas, all 3 now out of the Tour.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (10 Jul 2017)

It's hard to avoid concluding that the commercial interests of groupset manufacturers, looking to showcase ever more ludicrous bottom gears, is causing the situation where Grand Tours are won or lost by crashes rather than climbing ability. As the race organisers look for ever steeper climbs for the groupset interests, by their nature, the steeper roads are likely to have descents that are steeper, narrower, and more sinuous. All of which make crashes more likely.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (10 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> There does seem to be a bit of a driver v rider battle on the roads of France; a few "high profile" events e.g. Offredo being assaulted with a baseball bat and a blade earlier this year. Demare also tweeted that his cousin was knocked off his bike earlier this week by someone aiming a car at him, I think on the same day as Demare won a stage (or the day before/after)


The French need to follow the example of the RTTC. TT venues identified only by code (the K37 was my local), start times at 6 in the morning, (or even earlier for some of the longer events I rode !), and riders dressed in regulation black alpaca. Then they could ride time trials to their hearts content while not attracting the attention of the local drivers or constabulary. Worked for us.


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> It's hard to avoid concluding that the commercial interests of groupset manufacturers, looking to showcase ever more ludicrous bottom gears, is causing the situation where Grand Tours are won or lost by crashes rather than climbing ability. As the race organisers look for ever steeper climbs for the groupset interests, by their nature, the steeper roads are likely to have descents that are steeper, narrower, and more sinuous. All of which make crashes more likely.



I was discussing this with a friend earlier. I came to the conclusion that Porte is a big doofus. 

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for him - I don't like to see _anyone_ crash like that, not even Vinokourov. It looked _really_ nasty. But it was a bike handling error on his part. Entirely his own fault. Nothing to do with his gearing or what brand of shifters he was using.

Porte lost time on the opening stage time trial, if you recall, and the reason he gave in the post-race interview was that he didn't think it was worth risking the whole race for the sake of gaining a handful of seconds. You have to ask why he didn't apply the same philosophy on the descent of the Mont du Chat. If you're not as confident or capable a bike handler as your rivals, don't try to take the same risks. Simples.

It's worth looking at Fuglsang for a comparison - he had a bit of a wobble and it clearly knocked his confidence, and after that he took it much more cautiously. It cost him a bit of time, but hey, he's still in the race.

Also, could you please tell me what groupset Bardet was using that allowed him to descend like that? Because if that's what the right groupset can do for you, I'm going to buy one tomorrow.


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Jul 2017)

Star of the show for me so.far has been Kwiatowski,always liked him as a rider.After yesterday's awesome ride for Froome he decided to help a injured Rafal Majka to continue as best he could.Polish mafia ! He has to be a future contender ?


----------



## brommers (10 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> I wonder if Dan had been riding discs would he have been able to complete the stage without taking a massive time loss.


He only lost just over a minute


----------



## smutchin (10 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> He only lost just over a minute



He would have won the stage if that nobber hadn't knocked him off.


----------



## Adam4868 (10 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> He would have won the stage if that nobber hadn't knocked him off.


Your all heart x


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (11 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> could you please tell me what groupset Bardet was using that allowed him to descend like that? Because if that's what the right groupset can do for you, I'm going to buy one tomorrow.


Missing my point entirely. Read my post again. It's about the pressure to include ever steeper climbs to showcase ever more ludicrous bottom gears.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

Giving out the prizes today:


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Missing my point entirely. Read my post again. It's about the pressure to include ever steeper climbs to showcase ever more ludicrous bottom gears.



Why the need to showcase more ludicrous gears? A groupset is a groupset, you only ever buy one for the bike anyway,?.


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (11 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Out of interest, what bottom gears have been on show? I haven't been paying sufficient attention.
> 
> From the little I know about pro racing a 30T sprocket would probably be seen as ludicrous. Whereas in the real world 34/32 is standard, and ludicrous applies to teeny tiny touring chainrings for hauling camping gear up mountains.



I think the ITV4 commentary suggested Froome was riding 38/30 whereas 34/28 is more common amount the riders on stages with steep climbs.

Graham


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (11 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Out of interest, what bottom gears have been on show? I haven't been paying sufficient attention.
> 
> From the little I know about pro racing a 30T sprocket would probably be seen as ludicrous. Whereas in the real world 34/32 is standard, and ludicrous applies to teeny tiny touring chainrings for hauling camping gear up mountains.


Some of the riders are using 36x32. Ludricrous on a professional racing bike.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Some of the riders are using 36x32. Ludricrous on a professional racing bike.



Why is it ludicrous?


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Some of the riders are using 36x32. Ludricrous on a professional racing bike.


It's just not manly. Hinault would have chewed away the hill to make the gradient easier.


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)

if that's what they need then why is it ludicrous do you think there should be a rule lowest gears they can use


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (11 Jul 2017)

This is all about allowing the unfit and often overweight sportive riding masses to 'look the part', to allow them to ride bikes that look pretty much identical to the ones used by the pro's. Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders. But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)

what makes any descent treacherous is the way it is ridden , by a pro or joe blogs,


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> This is all about allowing the unfit and often overweight sportive riding masses to 'look the part', to allow them to ride bikes that look pretty much identical to the ones used by the pro's. Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders. But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.


The whole history of bike racing is about selling things. It's a shop window for selling things, besides, that's not the worst descent they've had.


----------



## SWSteve (11 Jul 2017)

Big gears don't make you ride fast down hill, we've all gone so fast there's no point pedalling...

Porte crashed doing 76kph, he'd need to be riding a 55x11 (and he wouldn't have had a 55) with legs going at 120rpm to go that fast. 

Steep, long descents make you go fast.


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> He only lost just over a minute



What I meant is how much more than a minute would he have lost if he had been using disc brakes and had to get a disc wheel, are they as easy to swap as rim brake wheels?


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> This is all about allowing the unfit and often overweight sportive riding masses to 'look the part', to allow them to ride bikes that look pretty much identical to the ones used by the pro's. Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders. But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.



You are seriously deluded.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

Could you imagine the Giro without the steep stuff.


----------



## hoopdriver (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Some of the riders are using 36x32. Ludricrous on a professional racing bike.


Ludicrous? Really? Some of the gradients have been up to 20%

These guys are _racing_, not smirking into any imaginary mirror trying to look a part.


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

I smell trolling.


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> This is all about allowing the unfit and often overweight sportive riding masses to 'look the part', to allow them to ride bikes that look pretty much identical to the ones used by the pro's. Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders. But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.



I don't know where to start


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I don't know where to start


Don't descend into a defensive debate of the decent descents...


----------



## MikeG (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> This is all about allowing the unfit and often overweight sportive riding masses to 'look the part', to allow them to ride bikes that look pretty much identical to the ones used by the pro's. Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders. But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.



Not macho enough for you if they have to turn a low gear, eh? Quite clearly anything other than a bunch sprint on a flat course is pandering to the great unwashed, and you won't be truly satisfied until they're all forced to ride single speed bikes.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Routing a Grand Tour over such steep climbs forces the pro teams to fit the same granny gears as the sportive riders.



Inrng did a good piece about the Mont du Chat a while back: http://inrng.com/2017/06/roads-to-ride-mont-du-chat/

He reminds us that this year isn't the first time it has featured in the Tour - back in 1974, it was only regarded as a 2nd category climb. Poulidor climbed it in a 44x23 gear, apparently.



> But it comes at the cost of ever more treacherous descents.



Fabio Baldato was quizzed about the final descent after the stage yesterday. He refused to say it was dangerous and mentioned that the team had reconnoitred it four times before the race. What made it dangerous was Richie Porte taking too many risks to keep up with more accomplished descenders, and Baldato more or less admitted as much.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Could you imagine the Giro without the steep stuff.



Looking at the profile, Mont du Chat would appear to be a piece of piss compared to the Mortirolo or Zoncolan.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Looking at the profile, Mont du Chat would appear to be a piece of piss compared to the Mortirolo or Zoncolan.



I've done both of those Italian monsters. Both ridiculously hard. I have no idea how you "race" up the Zoncolan.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> "Le freewheel, sur un velo de racing? Zut alors, c'est ludicreux" They were saying. Probably.



Henri Desgrange famously said that variable gears were only for people over 45.


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2017)

Shall we move the conversation on to the race again


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (11 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> What made it dangerous was Richie Porte taking too many risks to keep up with more accomplished descenders, and Baldato more or less admitted as much.


So you consider it justified for your sporting entertainment that Grand Tour contenders be put in the position of life threatening danger in order to compete ? There has always been an element of this but not to the same extent as exists now. As TCP noted recently, in the 80's and 90's not much ever happened on the descents, the descents used to be the periods in the race to cut to the adverts.


----------



## MikeG (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> So


Look out! Straw man alert........



> you consider it justified for your sporting entertainment that Grand Tour contenders be put in the position of life threatening danger in order to compete ?


And there it is, right on cue.



> There has always been an element of this but not to the same extent as exists now. As TCP noted recently, in the 80's and 90's not much ever happened on the descents, the descents used to be the periods in the race to cut to the adverts.



To make any of your premise stick, you'll have to come up with some evidence. Can you demonstrate in a verifiable / falsifiable manner that the Tour goes over steeper hills than it used to?

No, I thought not.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> So you consider it justified for your sporting entertainment that Grand Tour contenders be put in the position of life threatening danger in order to compete ?



These are highly experienced and skilled professional riders who are capable of making their own judgment as to how much risk to take. As mentioned earlier, Porte made a point of taking it easier on the opening stage time trial because he didn't want to risk crashing out of the race. He made an error of judgment by not applying the same principle yesterday.

Froome, Aru and Uran, by contrast, had the sense not to try to chase Bardet on the descent. 

I'm far from being convinced the Tour is more dangerous now than it was in the past. And riders pushing themselves beyond their limits on descents is certainly nothing new.


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

bad luck lad, no-one else can be bothered with break today.

Oh spoke too soon.


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

Looks like Offredo has nominated himself as today's sacrificial lamb. The sponsors will be pleased!


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

interesting racing line at that roundabout..


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Looks like Offredo has nominated himself as today's sacrificial lamb. The sponsors will be pleased!


I stuck £1 on him last night at 600/1 so I hope he isn't caught!


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Can you demonstrate in a verifiable / falsifiable manner that the Tour goes over steeper hills than it used to?



The Mont du Chat is bloody steep - and relentlessly so. If you're talking in terms of average gradient, it would be hard to find another climb in Tour de France history that's steeper. However, the problem in attempting to make such comparisons is that it's not nearly as long a climb as the likes of the Tourmalet or Madeleine or Galibier. And while those climbs may have 'easier' average gradients overall, they do feature much steeper sections. So, I'd say the evidence is inconclusive either way.

The Mont du Chat's relatively short length is why it was only rated as a Cat 2 the last time it featured in the Tour in 1974, according to Inrng.

The Grand Colombier is another fairly recent addition to the Tour that is notable for being extremely difficult.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

Wind speed only 5km - was hoping for 50km!


----------



## Adam4868 (11 Jul 2017)

Pro cycling is a dangerous sport,I'd say there are more crashes in the sprints than anything else.Maybe wrong but a descent is only as dangerous as you.choose to ride it.Take risks and it can end badly.
Meanwhile on with the race.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2017)

Would now be a good time to point out that Porte didnae crash due to dangerous roads but due to his inability to stay on the road provided?

The history of cycle racing is full of serious incidents and deaths. Cycle racing has always been about selling stuff. 

Nothing to see here...


----------



## hoopdriver (11 Jul 2017)

Yes, he took too many risks for his skill level as a descender.

I must say, the commentators and guest commentators on ITV4 don't really seem to know how to fill in the hours with engaging and relevant commentary. I find myself keeping it on mute most of the time.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I stuck £1 on him last night at 600/1 so I hope he isn't caught!


Should I cash out now for £1.20?


----------



## hoopdriver (11 Jul 2017)

You'd still be up 20%


----------



## MikeG (11 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> The Mont du Chat is bloody steep - and relentlessly so. If you're talking in terms of average gradient, it would be hard to find another climb in Tour de France history that's steeper. However, the problem in attempting to make such comparisons is that it's not nearly as long a climb as the likes of the Tourmalet or Madeleine or Galibier. And while those climbs may have 'easier' average gradients overall, they do feature much steeper sections. So, I'd say the evidence is inconclusive either way.
> 
> The Mont du Chat's relatively short length is why it was only rated as a Cat 2 the last time it featured in the Tour in 1974, according to Inrng.
> 
> The Grand Colombier is another fairly recent addition to the Tour that is notable for being extremely difficult.



F-O-T-E's premise is that these peaks have only been brought in recently at the behest of the groupset manufacturers. The fact that this hill has been climbed before on the Tour, whilst only being one data-point, doesn't help his case.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> F-O-T-E's premise is that these peaks have only been brought in recently at the behest of the groupset manufacturers. The fact that this hill has been climbed before on the Tour, whilst only being one data-point, doesn't help his case.


Who cares. Let it go.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

My grandson is hogging the TV watching 'Planes' the movie.
I'm not sure if watching Dusty the cropsprayer vs Ripslinger isn't more entertaining?


----------



## MikeG (11 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Who cares. Let it go.



OK, done.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Should I cash out now for £1.20?


Another quid down the drain...

...are you made of money!!!!!


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

The figures from the early Tour are always staggering.


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I stuck £1 on him last night at 600/1 so I hope he isn't caught!



is there no end to your extravagance


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> is there no end to your extravagance


Now at £2.40 cash out


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)




----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

I reckon you'll bottle out at £4.80


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2017)

I don't think it will get to £4.80


----------



## Fight.The.Power (11 Jul 2017)

Waaaaay too early from McClay


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

Well no need for a photo there.


----------



## Tynan (11 Jul 2017)

As regards Porte, one of the other riders in that group said that there was a dodgy spot that he managed to just avoid but Porte went over and lost his back wheel on, so presumably not all his cack handling

And if Greipel's lead out was so splendid as I was told ten times over by BTSport, what happened after that? Not even in the top ten ffs, i suspect I'd slightly have the grumps if i was in that Lotto tream


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> if Greipel's lead out was so splendid as I was told ten times over by BTSport, what happened after that?



Would have been perfect if the finish line had come 500m earlier.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

*Km 145.5* - Côte d'Aire-sur-l'Adour1.2 kilometre-long climb at 4.2% - *category 4*
*This is tomorrow's offering in the KOM - what's the point? (apart from 1 for the head of the breakaway)*


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

God help us from any more bloody sprints


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2017)

I did mention that the parcours was shite...


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I did mention that the parcours was shite...


So you did 
I have no idea wtf Prudhomme et al expected to happen


----------



## Crackle (11 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> So you did
> I have no idea wtf Prudhomme et al expected to happen


Demare not to finish outside the time limit


----------



## Dayvo (11 Jul 2017)

Ooh! Marmande. I spent two months in Marmande in 1980. Lovely place. 

It is very flat there, though.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

They need to add more punchy stages like stage 3 - spring classics style stages, or the sort we saw in last years ToB and Eneco Tour.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (11 Jul 2017)

Riders have lost their ability to race and their sponsors should be asking for their money back, says Greg LeMond


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2017)

There won't be a race with totally flat parcours.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Ooh! Marmion. I spent two months in Marmion in 1980. Lovely bloke.
> 
> It is very fat there



Good Lord, Dave


----------



## Dayvo (11 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Good Lord, Dave



And we spent a night or two in your house during the Olympics. 

Fortunately, I was with my missus.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> And we spent a night or two in your house during the Olympics.
> 
> Fortunately, I was with my missus.


I burnt the sheets - I think that's my last word on this smut!


----------



## themosquitoking (11 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> *Km 145.5* - Côte d'Aire-sur-l'Adour1.2 kilometre-long climb at 4.2% - *category 4*
> *This is tomorrow's offering in the KOM - what's the point? (apart from 1 for the head of the breakaway)*


I bet i could easily lose five minutes to the peloton on that.


----------



## Shadow (11 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> And we spent a night or two in your house during the Olympics.


In 1980? Was Rich in Russia back then?!!!


----------



## SWSteve (11 Jul 2017)

What the hell happened to Greipel!


----------



## Adam4868 (11 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> What the hell happened to Greipel!


He went for the intermediate instead !


----------



## SWSteve (11 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> He went for the intermediate instead !



He had better win that stage


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (11 Jul 2017)

Great interview, well, panel discussion really, with Bernie Eisel by Messrs Edwards and Smith. Articulate, nice guy.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2017)

This is what Simon Yates said about today's and tomorrow's stages:
 "I had a very relaxed rest day with a coffee shop ride. The race today was pretty crazy towards the finale. Everyone wanted to stay out of trouble. I heard there might be some crosswinds tomorrow to make it a more difficult stage."
Crosswinds would certainly make the stage more interesting.


----------



## rich p (11 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> This is what Simon Yates said about today's and tomorrow's stages:
> "I had a very relaxed rest day with a coffee shop ride. The race today was pretty crazy towards the finale. Everyone wanted to stay out of trouble. I heard there might be some crosswinds tomorrow to make it a more difficult stage."
> Crosswinds would certainly make the stage more interesting.


Shhh, Brommers, don't tell the punditeers...


----------



## brommers (12 Jul 2017)

Could you imagine the panic in the peloton if there were crosswinds and gaps formed similar to last year's world championships.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Could you imagine the panic in the peloton if there were crosswinds and gaps formed similar to last year's world championships.


Works it be uncharitable of me to hope that Prudhomme is struck by lightning when his head is poking of the sunroof?


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2017)

I expressed silent scepticism when Marmion said it was a boring parcours but it turns out he was right. Possibly the worst tour route in memory


----------



## SWSteve (12 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> The most interesting bit of last nights highlights, by far, was Chris Boardman wittering on about tubeless sealant.



I enjoyed Ned waving a inner tube around next to a penny farthing


----------



## SWSteve (12 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> We've never had it so good.



You've got to feel for him, sitting in a room for 5 hours pretending the break won't get caught...


----------



## SWSteve (12 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Wanty Groupe Gobert in the break again. This time it'll be different.



Did they all meet at the team bus before the start?


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> You've got to feel for him, sitting in a room for 5 hours pretending the break won't get caught...



Trying to come with new ways of describing Voeckler's riding style.


----------



## mjr (12 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> The most interesting bit of last nights highlights, by far, was Chris Boardman wittering on about tubeless sealant.


Did you notice him trolling this thread by suggesting Porte crashed due to carbon rims not offering braking as good as alloy ones?


----------



## Tynan (12 Jul 2017)

yes, the hills have been so exciting and the sprint stages so dull

why can't bigger groups make more aggressive breakways? I'm new to watching more than highlights, has it always been this cut and dried on so many stages?


----------



## roadrash (12 Jul 2017)

has anyone got a link to video of boohoohani hitting out at riders in yesterdays bunch sprint,


----------



## Archie (12 Jul 2017)




----------



## BrumJim (12 Jul 2017)

Delighted to see the Ginger Frederiaertk Backaert in the break again.


----------



## Beebo (12 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> yes, the hills have been so exciting and the sprint stages so dull
> 
> why can't bigger groups make more aggressive breakways? I'm new to watching more than highlights, has it always been this cut and dried on so many stages?


The peleton will only let certain riders escape. If the group is too dangerous they won't let them go. So the breakaway is basically self selecting.a big group of heavy hitters is unlikely to escape.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> The peleton will only let certain riders escape. If the group is too dangerous they won't let them go. So the breakaway is basically self selecting.a big group of heavy hitters is unlikely to escape.



There's more to it than that though. In the past, a breakaway like today's would have been allowed to build up a much bigger time gap - maybe 20 minutes or more - but the current trend seems to be for the peloton to keep them on a much shorter leash.

I guess it makes it that bit easier to reel them in when it comes to the business end of the stage, and therefore less likely for a miscalculation in the chase that allows the break to succeed.

And I guess this in turn makes some riders less inclined to take part in the break, unless they're part of a team like WGG that values the TV exposure for the sponsors.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2017)

More questions for the Tour directors to answer - recklessly endangering Dario Cataldo's life* by including these treacherous flat, straight roads and forcing riders to tackle them in fine, dry conditions.


*wrist


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I expressed silent scepticism when Marmion said it was a boring parcours but it turns out he was right. Possibly the worst tour route in memory


I am always right.

Accept this.


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2017)

I doubt it is genuinely the most boring Tour route ever, we're just more exposed to the filler bits because of the start-to-finish TV coverage.


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2017)

I love it, test match esque burble and some nice scenery the commentators seem to be more relaxed and convivial as well, the interviews are a good idea as well.


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2017)

I wonder if there's actors who specialise in voicing dogs in commercials?


----------



## Disabledcyclist40 (12 Jul 2017)

Dirty Bertie on the deck again, wasn't impressed the way he totally blanked his downed team mate, didn't even throw a glance at him before getting off.


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2017)

Contador crash


----------



## Tin Pot (12 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I doubt it is genuinely the most boring Tour route ever, we're just more exposed to the filler bits because of the start-to-finish TV coverage.



Tennis was good today.


----------



## jarlrmai (12 Jul 2017)

LS leading out Kittel again


----------



## Supersuperleeds (12 Jul 2017)

Not been able to watch it today but the BBC have this on their text feed


Problems for GC riders Jakob Fuglsang, Romain Bardet and Alberto Contador today.

I know what happened to Fugslang and dirty bertie, but what happened to Bardet?

Ignore me I've found it in the feed


----------



## Disabledcyclist40 (12 Jul 2017)

How close was he from not being caught, one hell of a ride that


----------



## hoopdriver (12 Jul 2017)

Disabledcyclist40 said:


> Dirty Bertie on the deck again, wasn't impressed the way he totally blanked his downed team mate, didn't even throw a glance at him before getting off.


Yes, that was rather startling, wasn't it?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (12 Jul 2017)

Well this is the longest first week of the Tour. Ever.


----------



## hoopdriver (12 Jul 2017)

Possibly because we are halfway through the second week...


----------



## Disabledcyclist40 (12 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> Yes, that was rather startling, wasn't it?


To me it's the reason I've always disliked him, yes people at the top have an edge, but to not even glance at your own team mate, who was CLEARLY in some pain, nah, that was bang outta order


----------



## Adam4868 (12 Jul 2017)

Disabledcyclist40 said:


> To me it's the reason I've always disliked him, yes people at the top have an edge, but to not even glance at your own team mate, who was CLEARLY in some pain, nah, that was bang outta order


I thought he looked at him once with disdain.


----------



## hoopdriver (12 Jul 2017)

I'm not sure that would make me like him any better


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I know we're supposed to get over it and not mention it, but the absence of at least three, possibly four of the sprinters Cav, Sagan, Demare ... Renshaw) hasn't exactly enlivened the pancake stages.
> 
> (Although even if Cav had stayed upright, it's possible that he may have been eliminated along with Demare after Mont du Chat, especially given that he wasn't 100% fit)



And, still, Bouhanni is fecking nowhere


----------



## smutchin (12 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I guess it makes it that bit easier to reel them in when it comes to the business end of the stage, and therefore less likely for a miscalculation in the chase that allows the break to succeed.



...and still they sometimes nearly manage to cock it up!


----------



## roadrash (12 Jul 2017)

,


Marmion said:


> And, still, Bouhanni is fecking nowhere



Boohoohani should be on his way home after hitting yesterday, fekin nob


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> ,
> 
> 
> Boohoohani should be on his way home after hitting yesterday, fekin nob


it was the weakest slap ever, he must be a crap boxer as well


----------



## themosquitoking (12 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> I thought he looked at him once with disdain.


I assumed the reason was that he caused the crash, my assumptions were backed up by one of the car men giving the fallen bloke a new bike and just pointing at the road.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Jul 2017)

I hope we see teams attacking Sky in the next couple of stages and applying pressure; they need to batter away, and keep battering.


----------



## Adam4868 (12 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I hope we see teams attacking Sky in the next couple of stages and applying pressure; they need to batter away, and keep battering.


That's all they can do.I think Bardet ag2r will push it.Plenty more twitchy descending to.come


----------



## Tynan (12 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> The peleton will only let certain riders escape. If the group is too dangerous they won't let them go. So the breakaway is basically self selecting.a big group of heavy hitters is unlikely to escape.



Suppose but rather like Eurosport today kept saying, surely someone has to try something to shake it up, even if you can only increase the pace to see what happens, has to be better than trundling along so the sprinters can have a giggle in the last km and the regular fellas all roll over the line together.

if the yanks ever get interested, they'll come up with something, joker cards for shortcuts or 5 minute tows from your team card, shake it up


----------



## ColinJ (13 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I doubt it is genuinely the most boring Tour route ever, we're just more exposed to the filler bits because of the start-to-finish TV coverage.


I am watching the 1 hour highlights shows which feature about 20 minutes of adverts and only about 40 minutes of content but I use fast-forward so often that I am watching those sprint stages in about 10-15 minutes. It really _IS_ one of the most boring routes that I can remember since I started watching in 1989!


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

Another nice little run-in for the sprinters tomorrow(!)


----------



## Bonus (13 Jul 2017)

We're leaving home to go and watch today and staying over in Saint-Girons for tomorrows stage. It's 80km from home to where we want to watch today - but it will take 2hrs 40 min to get there thanks to those pesky mountains!


----------



## MikeG (13 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Suppose but rather like Eurosport today kept saying, surely someone has to try something to shake it up, even if you can only increase the pace to see what happens, has to be better than trundling along so the sprinters can have a giggle in the last km and the regular fellas all roll over the line together.
> 
> if the yanks ever get interested, they'll come up with something, joker cards for shortcuts or 5 minute tows from your team card, shake it up



I suggested in another thread that once or twice during the tour there are pursuit days, where the riders get set off at their over-all time. So the leader would go first, followed, at the moment, by Aru 18 seconds later, Bardet 33 seconds after him, and so on. The leader on the road is the leader of the GC, and sprinters wouldn't get the chance to be anywhere near the front of the race if they hadn't kept their over-all time within reach of the front of the race. If nothing else, it would force a change of tactics by the teams in the days leading up to the pursuit day, because they couldn't afford to have big gaps between their riders if they wanted to work together.

The thing is, so many people see the Tours as perfect as they are, and even mentioning the prospect of doing something to break up the Sunday-club-ride-with-sprint routine is seen as an anathema. Watch the snide comments follow........


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

That's a nice idea - reintroducing the idea of actually _racing..._


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

There's nothing stopping them 'racing'.As I'm sure you'll see today.It's sky's race to try and control/defend and everyone else's to attack !


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

Sure. It's a mountain stage. Where was the racing during much of the past week though? Other than in the final couple of kilometres? Long club run, concluding with a frantic sprint involving a handful of the 190 or so riders in the peloton and everyone else just looking to get through the day and remain upright. Every day the coverage concludes the same way: a list of the top ten sprint finishers and the words "...and once again, no change in the GC..."


----------



## MikeG (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> There's nothing stopping them 'racing'.As I'm sure you'll see today.It's sky's race to try and control/defend and everyone else's to attack !



Where does all this racing happen? In the last 400 metres of flat stages, and on 3 or 4 climbs. How many of the 190 riders are involved in each?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

I'm not sure some posters are grasping the concept of a grand tour, either overall or it's component parts. The route this year has been awful, which was glaringly obvious before they set off. Maybe the organisers wanted to limit the number of 'dangerous' roads that I see people posting about? It also might have something to do with the unwritten rules that people seem to support which limits options for racing. You gets what you wants...

Maybe it is time to do something different?


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I suggested in another thread that once or twice during the tour there are pursuit days, where the riders get set off at their over-all time. So the leader would go first, followed, at the moment, by Aru 18 seconds later, Bardet 33 seconds after him, and so on. The leader on the road is the leader of the GC, and sprinters wouldn't get the chance to be anywhere near the front of the race if they hadn't kept their over-all time within reach of the front of the race. If nothing else, it would force a change of tactics by the teams in the days leading up to the pursuit day, because they couldn't afford to have big gaps between their riders if they wanted to work together.
> 
> The thing is, so many people see the Tours as perfect as they are, and even mentioning the prospect of doing something to break up the Sunday-club-ride-with-sprint routine is seen as an anathema. Watch the snide comments follow........


Not so much snide as: I think it would be an interesting finish to a race, as we're probably going to see with the scandalous fourth women's La Course (it's a scandal because there was only one men's La Course before they resurrected the Tour), and there should be a place for a couple of them on the calendar, but it ain't a grand tour.


----------



## BrumJim (13 Jul 2017)

From memory, transition stages have a reputation as being long and dull. However, for me the problem this year has been that the flat stages have all ended on flatish finishes. A gentle mixture of flat and sloping run-ins have given different sprinters different advantages. Looks as though they have limited Sagan-friendly stages in order to provide a bit more competition for the Green Jersey. Although that is all out of the window now.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

I have also read comments from Froome that he/Sky will be trying to ensure riders who have lost time on GC do not make any time back in the next few stages; I am assuming that includes Dan Martin who lost time due to crashing. Seems that it's the done thing to not take advantage of opportunities to race the leader when the opportunity presents itself but ok to gain advantage and then close down any attempt to try to overcome any previously experienced adversity.

I hope a number of teams attack. And keep attacking.

The ideal situation would be Froome going into week 3 in 3rd or 4th...


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> But what you're describing there is just a regular sprint stage. They have always been part of the tour, and they are why some of the teams are there.
> 
> Unforunately at the moment the sprinting competition is a bit one sided. You know something is wrong when Eddie Bosen Hagen is featuring heavily as a pure sprinter.


Yes, that's true. And the intermediate sprints were set up so that there would be some racing throughout the stages, and I can appreciate that is why some of the teams are there and that is a good thing.

But it seems to me there should be something similar set up so that GC contenders are obliged to race as well on these long flat stages instead of just essentially going on long fast club rides - perhaps some kind of intermediate contest with bonus seconds etc awarded to induce a bit of competition amongst the time-hungry GC contenders, especially those in fourth or fifth or sixth place who might want a podium.

This years' course does seem to be rather dull in terms of racing. As a travel writer I enjoyed the aerial tour of Dordogne valley the other day - and will probably try to do some stories there - but looking for travel story ideas is not why I watch the Tour de France...


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2017)

Early start today 10.10am (UK)


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I have also read comments from Froome that he/Sky will be trying to ensure riders who have lost time on GC do not make any time back in the next few stages; I am assuming that includes Dan Martin who lost time due to crashing.



Yes, he said that in the post-race interview yesterday. I presumed he was referring specifically to Dan Martin. I really hope Dan takes that as a challenge.


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Maybe it is time to do something different?


Boardman has called this year's race "utterly, utterly boring".

I suspect if Froome wins five, then we'll see some radical changes to try to stop him surpassing Hinault - although with Froome being quite good at French-style climbs and Sky being quite good at driving on the flat, I'm not sure what. No TTs and trips into Spain, Italy and Switzerland for stuff Sky doesn't seem so good at?


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Boardman has called this year's race "utterly, utterly boring".
> 
> I suspect if Froome wins five, then we'll see some radical changes to try to stop him surpassing Hinault - although with Froome being quite good at French-style climbs and Sky being quite good at driving on the flat, I'm not sure what. No TTs and trips into Spain, Italy and Switzerland for stuff Sky doesn't seem so good at?



Maybe they will just run it in Italy and call it the Giro


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2017)

The race isn't necessarily the issue, it's driven in part by the UCI points system which rewards (mediocrity) for positions up to (IIRC) 15th place.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

No radios. No support vehicles. Riders to carry pump and patch kits. Steel frames. The one concession to modernity being that domestiques are allowed to work the bellows at the local blacksmith's if a new fork has to be forged. That would sort them out.


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> The race isn't necessarily the issue, it's driven in part by the UCI points system which rewards (mediocrity) for positions up to (IIRC) 15th place.


Up to 60th on GC innit? First 5 on stages.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

C'mon all teams other than Sky!!!!!

As Delia would say "let's being having you..."


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The route this year has been awful, which was glaringly obvious before they set off. Maybe the organisers wanted to limit the number of 'dangerous' roads that I see people posting about?



When the route was announced last year, Prudhomme said it was designed to make a more open, less controlled race. He seems to have ended up with the exact opposite.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

This route doesn't seem that bad to me, I know these guys are machines but can you really have 3 weeks of lumpy classics stages and mountains without it just being luck that decides the winner? Without sprint stages you wouldn't see the likes fo Kittel/Cav/Grieps.


hoopdriver said:


> No radios. No support vehicles. Riders to carry pump and patch kits. Steel frames. The one concession to modernity being that domestiques are allowed to work the bellows at the local blacksmith's if a new fork has to be forged. That would sort them out.



Every GC team has to have as a 10th member the guy from your club that has a "fat lad at the back" jersey, your race leader and his times are added together.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

That's a swell idea. As a tourer (not a racer) may I suggest that the 10th man be a tourer? After all this is the Tour de France - and a tenth member carrying all his own gear, panniers, tent and tools would inject a nice bit of honesty...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> When the route was announced last year, Prudhomme said it was designed to make a more open, less controlled race. He seems to have ended up with the exact opposite.


Can I draw attention to pages 6 - 8 of this thread? Posts 87 - 113 should cover it 

Mystic Marmion...


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

Boring......nah.If you dont like it.don't watch.As for sky controlling/boring/robotic or any other such things.Could it be that there good at what they do ? Go Froomey !


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Michael Mathews has a mud guard, purists discuss.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> That's a swell idea. As a tourer (not a racer) may I suggest that the 10th man be a tourer? After all this is the Tour de France - and a tenth member carrying all his own gear, panniers, tent and tools would inject a nice bit of honesty...



This would of course lead to UCI beard standards.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

Flat pedals and sandals required...


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2017)

When's Stevo going to make his move?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I suggested in another thread that once or twice during the tour there are pursuit days, where the riders get set off at their over-all time. So the leader would go first, followed, at the moment, by Aru 18 seconds later, Bardet 33 seconds after him, and so on. The leader on the road is the leader of the GC, and sprinters wouldn't get the chance to be anywhere near the front of the race if they hadn't kept their over-all time within reach of the front of the race. If nothing else, it would force a change of tactics by the teams in the days leading up to the pursuit day, because they couldn't afford to have big gaps between their riders if they wanted to work together.
> 
> The thing is, so many people see the Tours as perfect as they are, and even mentioning the prospect of doing something to break up the Sunday-club-ride-with-sprint routine is seen as an anathema. Watch the snide comments follow........


Wouldn't the GC contenders then have no interest in racing until _after _the final pursuit day, given that any time gained would equal time lost in the pursuit?


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Being at the front of a 200km race alone is not a reward.


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> When's Stevo going to make his move?


Soon !


----------



## MikeG (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Being at the front of a 200km race alone is not a reward.



It's not aimed at the leader. It's aimed at providing an incentive for everyone to keep their overall time competitive. The support riders would have to keep their times sharp, otherwise they wouldn't be able to ride together as a team to support their leader, leaving him alone and vulnerable on the road. It would also force the sprinters to get up the mountains as quick as they could, because they wouldn't be able to win the sprint on the Pursuit day/s if they started 2 hours behind the leaders. Further, all rounders, or even sprinters, could win the GC title if they got their tactics and team support right.


----------



## MikeG (13 Jul 2017)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Wouldn't the GC contenders then have no interest in racing until _after _the final pursuit day, given that any time gained would equal time lost in the pursuit?



It wouldn't be time lost in the pursuit. Also, you could easily have a couple or more of these, including a very late one. What about having such a day the day before the parade into Paris? It would effectively decide who wins the TdF.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> When's Stevo going to make his move?



Descent and last little climb


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

There you go stevo


----------



## roadrash (13 Jul 2017)

here goes stevo


----------



## roadrash (13 Jul 2017)

and bertie


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Froome v Cummings ...


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

I bought a watch this week.

A new one. Screw you, adverts!


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Froome v Cummings ...


Peloton slowed. GB champion to win on fiftieth anniversary of Tom Simpson's death, or Tram Sky pacing themselves before spoiling the Hollywood ending?


----------



## roadrash (13 Jul 2017)

froom , aru go off road


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Jeez that could have been a nightmare


----------



## Beebo (13 Jul 2017)

Lucky bit of caravan dodging.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Mickey Snow wanted a brew, put the kettle on in that motorhome as he went by.


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

Nearly a toilet break for nieve


----------



## roadrash (13 Jul 2017)

Quintana, promised so much and delivered so little


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

Cummings win would have been awesome, but no chance from here... Froome got to be favourite for the stage at this point, Sky just dominating these climbs.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

I really want to see Cummings and Froome belting it up the last ramp.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

I feel Aru will get this.


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> I feel Aru will get this.



Time bonuses at the finish as well?


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Yeah It's his best chance to get in yellow.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Cmon Dan Martin !!!!


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

DM!


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

Rigoberto Uran to whack it in 53-11 again and boss it...


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

Froome blows...!


----------



## Bollo (13 Jul 2017)

Froome out the back!


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

Ludicrous gradient


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

Oh nice Bardet... wonderful ride


----------



## Bollo (13 Jul 2017)

Out of yellow


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Fantastic Bardet !!!

Froome goes Boom


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Jeez that was fookin hard.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

GC is changed.


----------



## Tin Pot (13 Jul 2017)

Boom.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2017)

He'll get it back on the TT


----------



## J1888 (13 Jul 2017)

Wonderful stuff. Glad to see Sky lose the yella, even though it may just be temporary.


----------



## Beebo (13 Jul 2017)

Landa was 4th, and did alll the work, very worrying for Froome, just didnt have it.


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

That ramp was not typical no way you can Sky train that, it looks like Froome didn't have a small enough gear or the legs.


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> That ramp was not typical no way you can Sky train that, it looks like Froome didn't have a small enough gear or the legs.



True, but they had Landa and Nieve with 1.8km to go. No excuses for losing from there...


----------



## Dave Davenport (13 Jul 2017)

The rest of the race just got a lot more interesting!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

No Prizes for guessing who gets front page on L'Equipe tomorrow


----------



## FishFright (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> That ramp was not typical no way you can Sky train that, it looks like Froome didn't have a small enough gear or the legs.




It wasn't a failure of Sky's tactics, it was Froome blowing up.


----------



## Bobby Mhor (13 Jul 2017)

Froome borrowed my legs...
it didn't work well, did it?


----------



## User6179 (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> That ramp was not typical no way you can Sky train that, it looks like Froome didn't have a small enough gear or the legs.



Its not that steep


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

First day a Brit not in yellow


----------



## Dave Davenport (13 Jul 2017)

Uran right up there too (and he can TT).


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Steep 3.5km ramp on last climb tomorrow. Bardet should deffo attack Froome again there with it being such a short stage


----------



## Fight.The.Power (13 Jul 2017)

Cue On A Ragga Tip !! Of course lol


----------



## J1888 (13 Jul 2017)

I thought Dan Martin might kick on with an almighty surge, but even though he passed a couple of riders, he was then completely spent - though he did pick up a bit of speed at the end. Much more enjoyable than the sprints I think!


----------



## Tynan (13 Jul 2017)

respek to Fulsang, jesus wept, epic stuff


----------



## Dave Davenport (13 Jul 2017)

This tour is swinging between being dull and really exciting.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

It was like a slow-mo sprint finish...


----------



## Buddfox (13 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> This tour is swinging between being dull and really exciting.



So like any other Tour then... :-)


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2017)

Only a metric century tomorrow - bit steeper than any of mine, though:






Last 26km pretty much downhill. Sprint finish?


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

So, for the first time Sky are going to have to chase a genuine contender. Looking forward to seeing if they can do it.


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2017)

Why has Uran been docked time?


----------



## Viking (13 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Why has Uran been docked time?


Took a bottle from a spectator inside the limit, hopefully for cooling rather than drinking


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Why has Uran been docked time?


illegal bottle


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Jul 2017)

That was silly of him..


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> illegal bottle


FFS


----------



## MacB (13 Jul 2017)

Well I enjoyed that, looked like a proper race at the end and opens things up a bit, can't be bad. That downhill at the end tomorrow could be good for Bardet.


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

Class win for Bardet,well deserved


----------



## MacB (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Class win for Bardet,well deserved



Yep, so enjoyable, I caught the last hour, that I'm going to watch again on the highlights.


----------



## Bonus (13 Jul 2017)

Fantastic day at the Tour de France! 

We saw the race twice - once on a climb where we were under some trees and once again just after a sharp left turn in a village - that's where we had the helicopter circling over us. The two places were 3km apart thanks to todays route doubling back on itself, which is why I chose them





We've enjoyed the day. Before the riders came through the first time, one of the South African Dimension Data team vehicals saw our SA flags and stopped for a chat. They told us that Stephen Cummings was going to try something today. Was good to talk to them and they gave us a couple of goodies



We also got lots of goodies from the publicity caravan and of course we got to cheer for the various SA riders. It's actually very difficult to pick individuals out in a bunch at even a moderate speed.

Sky were leading the pack both times they passed us and they looked rock steady. The first time I shouted for CF but the second time they were caning it and I just shouted for the team

Mrs Bonus spotted Louis "Main Cheese" and RJV Rensburg and gave them a shout. I couldn't make out Daryl Impey but he was in there somewhere. 

Interesting results. Not thrilled to see Aru in yellow but let's see what happens next . . . .


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> Yep, so enjoyable, I caught the last hour, that I'm going to watch again on the highlights.


Looks better second time round


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2017)

Bardet should be docked 20 seconds as well, bloody fix if they don't punish him


----------



## MacB (13 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bardet should be docked 20 seconds as well, bloody fix if they don't punish him



He should and I think will be but does the rule itself make sense? Genuine question my racing knowledge is so small it makes @rich p look like a giant


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

No feeding in last 20k


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> He should and I think will be but does the rule itself make sense? Genuine question my racing knowledge is so small it makes @rich p look like a giant



I'm not sure but I suspect it was brought in after the year Froome sent Porte back to the team car for gels and all they could do was fine him 250 Swiss Francs.


----------



## MacB (13 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm not sure but I suspect it was brought in after the year Froome sent Porte back to the team car for gels and all they could do was fine him 250 Swiss Francs.



But why? what's the rationale?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> But why? what's the rationale?


That I don't know, but my racing knowledge is less than yours


----------



## Dave Davenport (13 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm not sure but I suspect it was brought in after the year Froome sent Porte back to the team car for gels and all they could do was fine him 250 Swiss Francs.


I'm pretty sure he was docked 20 seconds as well.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'm pretty sure he was docked 20 seconds as well.



I refer you to my post above.

Just googled it, I didn't even get the 250 swiss francs bit right either - it was 200


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> I'm pretty sure he was docked 20 seconds as well.


He was


----------



## MacB (13 Jul 2017)

Come on folks, do you expect me to google for myself...outrageous


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> But why? what's the rationale?



I think it's to prevent team cars / toad side soigneurs handing out stuff up the steep final climbs which could lead to congestion and crashes.


----------



## roadrash (13 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> I think it's to prevent team cars / toad side soigneurs handing out stuff up the steep final climbs which could lead to congestion and crashes.



do the soigneurs have to stand beside the toads


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)




----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Hold on, did they just pick and choose riders to whom they applied the penalty?


----------



## jarlrmai (13 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> do the soigneurs have to stand beside the toads



The UCI banned frogs ironically.


----------



## FishFright (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> No feeding in last 20k



IIRC Sky took mussettes at 12.5 km to go. Not 100% certain though


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

Might be one of those etiquette things that Bardet gets away with cause he won the stage ! It'll be buried in the manual small print.
UCI rule 2442134
Any french national who wins a stage of the Tour can be looked on favourably on bending the rules.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Might be one of those etiquette things that Bardet gets away with cause he won the stage ! It'll be buried in the manual small print.
> UCI rule 2442134
> Any french national who wins a stage of the Tour can be looked on favourably on bending the rules.


I think you'll find that it's covered by Regulation Z3.1 - any rider wearing any article of clothing whilst riding uphill cannot be penalised for any act committed on the day prior to Bastille Day


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

On a punditry related theme, keeping it away from the **no spoilers** punditry thread, I wonder what the scoring would have been of someone had picked:

Demare and Kittel for all the early sprint stages and Froome, Bardet and Aru for the lumpy ones to date...

It seems we are settling into a "Kittel, <one of Greipel, EBH, G'wegen> theme for sprints and "Aru, Froome, Bardet" for everything else.

Useless fecking parcours that it is.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Can I draw attention to pages 6 - 8 of this thread? Posts 87 - 113 should cover it
> 
> Mystic Marmion...



And now that I can actually quote them...


Marmion said:


> Has anyone mentioned how "crap" the stages are/route is?





smutchin said:


> Dunno. Is it?





rich p said:


> It has the potential to be more open, less processional (see posts above) and hopefully more interesting.
> It might also need the riders in with an outside chance of a win to animate the race and challenge the status quo.
> Dan Martin, Bardet, Contador, Fuglsang etc.
> Given their patchy form compared to previous years, it could be the best course and opportunity for them to challenge Froome and Quintana.





Marmion said:


> Right, it all came flooding back when I had another look...
> 
> The first week is going to be a dullfest. 5 x flat stages of over 200km on top of the opening 14km TT; only the stage which finishes at La Planche des Belles Filles looks in any way interesting. As previously stated the first mountain stage involves a few climbs and then finishes on downhill and flat, which dulls my mind. I have no idea why they'd need a rest day after that dullfest, maybe to sleep off the boredom?
> 
> ...





rich p said:


> Who knows, we may be pleasantly surprised. It may just possibly be that it won't be a slugfest of either Movistar or Sky sucking the life out of the opposition.





Adam4868 said:


> Yes think there's 8/9 sprint stages.I think they have tried to make the course so it will encourage attacks.Not as many long mountain finishes where a team can control it.Stage 9 looks brutal though !





Shadow said:


> Right, so you won't be watching,reading or listening about any of it. What will you with the time? Maybe you could spend the 3 weeks coming up with a better route and then we can all play PTP!!!





Marmion said:


> I suppose for me it's a mix of too many long dull stages that will end in sprints, not enough "medium mountain" stages that will see a bit of action, and, most of all, it just ain't a tough parcours at all. That "no team will take control" means that no team will see any reason to; our winner might come from an effort on 1 or 2 stages. And I think it might have been designed so Sagan does not have it as easy for Green other than anything else.





smutchin said:


> When the route was announced last year, Prudhomme said it was designed to make a more open, less controlled race. He seems to have ended up with the exact opposite.


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> On a punditry related theme, keeping it away from the **no spoilers** punditry thread, I wonder what the scoring would have been of someone had picked:
> 
> Demare and Kittel for all the early sprint stages and Froome, Bardet and Aru for the lumpy ones to date...
> 
> ...




Check out my latest post. More flare than a 70s nightclub


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Check out my latest post. More flare than a 70s nightclub


This is your picks, represented in a jeans style


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

Well you got the part about it not being a sky/movistar slugfest right ! What the feck has happened to Quintana ? Not too long ago he was being billed as 'best climber in the world' I guess he's missed Valverde but really blowing in tour so far.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Well you got the part about it not being a sky/movistar slugfest right ! What the feck has happened to Quintana ? Not too long ago he was being billed as 'best climber in the world' I guess he's missed Valverde but really blowing in tour so far.


That was that nobber @rich p not me. I got everything right


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> This is your picks, represented in a jeans style
> View attachment 362030



Oh come on, I'm doing my best to win the competition, as opposed to not lose my top 5 placing...


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> That was that nobber @rich p not me. I got everything right



Did you say Quintana would be average at two GTs this year? Even Bert is dropping him


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Did you say Quintana would be average at two GTs this year? Even Bert is dropping him


I was only really commenting on the parcours and the impact on potential green jersey/dullfest.

I was right on green "potential" and dullfest. 

If you want individual rider predictions I'll give you this one - Froome will crash out.


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I was only really commenting on the parcours and the impact on potential green jersey/dullfest.
> 
> I was right on green "potential" and dullfest.
> 
> If you want individual rider predictions I'll give you this one - Froome will crash out.




I thought you were being marm-stradamus earlier this year, not during the bloody race


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Well you got the part about it not being a sky/movistar slugfest right ! What the feck has happened to Quintana ? Not too long ago he was being billed as 'best climber in the world' I guess he's missed Valverde but really blowing in tour so far.


Lack of other team mates support as well


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I thought you were being marm-stradamus earlier this year, not during the bloody race


I'm upping my game


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Seen as no winner since 1932* has won after having fallen off, can anyone actually win this year

*may not be a real fact, but the sentiment applies


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2017)

Marmy you're getting a bit carried away with all this mystic nonsense


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Marmy you're getting a bit carried away with all this mystic nonsense


It's true.

Ask me anything...


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Interesting to see Portal's reported to having given Landa a dressing-down in public. I would've thought trying to get the stage/the bonus seconds would have been useful as his spiderness had been dropped. It wasn't as if Froome would need to be paced those final 100m, he could see everyone getting away so could go into the red...

Brian Smith certainly thought he was hunting the seconds on Eurosport's coverage. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sha...s-landa-rides-away-from-froome-at-peyragudes/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2017)

Appeals against today's time penalties have failed - kel sipreez


----------



## SWSteve (13 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Appeals against today's time penalties have failed - kel sipreez



It certainly wasn't sip-ease


----------



## Adam4868 (13 Jul 2017)

I'm surprised sky didn't let Landa go for.the stage today,he could have possibly picked up.some bonus points to take of their rivals.He looked solid on the front.Still wouldn't write Froome out of this yet.


----------



## MikeG (13 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> ........Still wouldn't write Froome out of this yet.



Like many recent Tours, I reckon this will be decided by the TTs. It's certainly too early to give up on Froome.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

<Carlton Kirby mode on> Today's stage is the shortest since they had "half stages" <and off...>

Half stages - now there's something they should bring back.


----------



## Bonus (14 Jul 2017)

It's been raining overnight here in Saint-Giron. This morning it's heavily overcast and misty. 

Last evening we drove the first 10km of the route out of town. A flat road alongside the river. LOTS of speed humps in town initially though! 

Shortly we will go down to the plaza for a coffee and a croissant and see what's going on. There were literally hundreds of camper vans parked everywhere last night so despite the weather I'm sure it will be busy.

Hoping to see some of the boys - Louis, Jacubus, RJVR, DI etc.


----------



## Bonus (14 Jul 2017)

For anyone who hasn't noticed, today's stage doesn't leave here until 2:30 this afternoon. 
Short and sharp today.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> For anyone who hasn't noticed, today's stage doesn't leave here until 2:30 this afternoon.
> Short and sharp today.


Aye a late start, official start time is 14.45 CET - they could get a couple of rounds of golf in before that


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> <Carlton Kirby mode on> Today's stage is the shortest since they had "half stages" <and off...>
> 
> Half stages - now there's something they should bring back.


Yeah, they're shoot too: What they should have is a LeMans start without bikes and invite the locals to leave out a bike of their choice around the town. The camera then follow the riders around as they hunt for a bike and set off on tricyles and balance bikes for a short criterium around the the town square whilst tourists shop for cheese and eggs in the market or sit eating steak and frites. It should appeal to the Japanese audience and next year they can start in Tokyo.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Yeah, they're shoot too: What they should have is a LeMans start without bikes and invite the locals to leave out a bike of their choice around the town. The camera then follow the riders around as they hunt for a bike and set off on tricyles and balance bikes for a short criterium around the the town square whilst tourists shop for cheese and eggs in the market or sit eating steak and frites. It should appeal to the Japanese audience and next year they can start in Tokyo.


No less bonkers than some of the ideas put forward on this thread


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> We need a new thread for ways to improve bike racing in general, and the TdF in particular. My vote is for more TV coverage of the caravan. We need more shots of bored young men and women dressed as bags of chips and bottles of water.


I think you're onto a winner there


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> We need a new thread for ways to improve bike racing in general, and the TdF in particular. My vote is for more TV coverage of the caravan. We need more shots of bored young men and women dressed as bags of chips and bottles of water.



We get adverts for a young woman dragging a disembodied arm around, isn't that enough?


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2017)

Shouldn't have Aru been moved up to 2nd with Uran's penalty and therefore be given another 2 seconds and hence be 8 seconds in front of Froome?


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not according to the ITV team: Time penalties apply only to GC totals, not stage results.



Was bouhanni docked a minute on the stage, or overall earlier this week?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

Some of the stages have been competing with the adverts in terms of which I'm looking forward to more.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

That awful Thatchers advert is even more irritating than the KP one. 

"You wouldn't want a cider that's almost perfect. Luckily, Thatchers make sure theirs is." Eh? Thatchers make sure their cider is _almost_ perfect?

It's all over the place grammatically. And as for comparing crap cider to non-flying hot air balloons... I don't think it was cider they'd been on when they came up with that one.


----------



## hoopdriver (14 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Was bouhanni docked a minute on the stage, or overall earlier this week?


That was for punching a fellow rider...


----------



## MacB (14 Jul 2017)

We should be saving the advert debates for the next flat/sprint stage


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> That awful Thatchers advert is even more irritating than the KP one.
> 
> "You wouldn't want a cider that's almost perfect. Luckily, Thatchers make sure theirs is." Eh? Thatchers make sure their cider is _almost_ perfect?
> 
> It's all over the place grammatically. And as for comparing crap cider to non-flying hot air balloons... I don't think it was cider they'd been on when they came up with that one.


As soon as I hear her name 'thatcher' I'm off on a rant !


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> We should be saving the advert debates for the next flat/sprint stage


I think, given the late start time of today's stage, that some advert critique is only to be expected.


----------



## MacB (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I think, given the late start time of today's stage, that some advert critique is only to be expected.



Nah you're just greedy, now be patient or it'll be bed with no tea again


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

I needed to get the Thatchers rant off my chest. Not waiting another day.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2017)

The second hand watch advert is the worst.

The bloke's setup on the bike is farking annoying.


----------



## hoopdriver (14 Jul 2017)

What I find particularly loathsome are those tediously long, wretched, manipulative and relentlessly downbeat advertisements for various animal welfare agencies and the thrusting of images of emaciated, abused, disease-ridden animals in my face. That kind of stuff just annoys me. It does not make me want to donate to them at all. Indeed, my wife who does tend to donate to these animal protection societies, was so put off (n the past) by these in-your-face ads that she stopped. I suspect others do as well.


----------



## Dave Davenport (14 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> We get adverts for a young woman dragging a disembodied arm around, isn't that enough?


Oh, it's his arm she's got hold off!


----------



## Dave Davenport (14 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> The second hand watch advert is the worst.
> 
> The bloke's setup on the bike is farking annoying.


It's like they got a random hairy bloke to ride and fiddle with a bike as if in slow motion 'cos they couldn't afford a slow motion camera.


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

Getting back to the race (yawn)what can possibly be the excuse why Bardet didn't get penalised for the bottle.Not that I really want him to as love him as a rider,more importantly have money on him finishing on the podium !


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> The second hand watch advert is the worst.
> 
> The bloke's setup on the bike is farking annoying.





Dave Davenport said:


> It's like they got a random hairy bloke to ride and fiddle with a bike as if in slow motion 'cos they couldn't afford a slow motion camera.


Don't know if it was richp who summed it up early in thread.Its like the voice in advert is on mogadon !


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> what can possibly be the excuse why Bardet didn't get penalised for the bottle.



Well, it would be unfair to penalise Bardet now they've rescinded Uran and Bennett's penalties.


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Well, it would be unfair to penalise Bardet now they've rescinded Uran and Bennett's penalties.


Thanks didn't know that,must lay off the cider in hot weather....


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Thanks didn't know that,must lay off the cider in hot weather....



They only just announced it about an hour ago.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Talking of Bennett, he's having a cracking Tour, isn't he? I didn't read too much into him winning in California given the calibre of the opposition, but it seems he's turning into a real contender and getting stronger as the race goes on. Likely to finish above Quintana on GC the way things are going.


----------



## Dave Davenport (14 Jul 2017)

Talking of Quintana; Why did the TV spend so long focused on him after he was dropped from the leading group? It's not like he was top three and loosing his placing, he was already miles behind. 
Can't believe he's the same rider from a couple of years ago (even accounting for him doing the Giro). Maybe he's been lying about his age and he's actually as old as he looks.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

He's a big name in trouble. 2nd in the Giro.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...ur-de-france-route-as-joke-of-a-course-341835


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> <Carlton Kirby mode on> Today's stage is the shortest since they had "half stages" <and off...>
> 
> Half stages - now there's something they should bring back.


Oh crikey, Kirby's been reading the Tour website again.



smutchin said:


> That awful Thatchers advert [...] It's all over the place grammatically. And as for comparing crap cider to non-flying hot air balloons... I don't think it was cider they'd been on when they came up with that one.


Well, North Somerset is the place to go if you want to hear the English language tortured in multiple ways - even though I've moved away! 

Thatchers are cool though. They allowed the Strawberry Line cycleway (NCR26) to reconnect across their land after a neighbouring farm wouldn't. (It already had to leave the line because of a sewage farm or something like that.)



Dave Davenport said:


> It's like they got a random hairy bloke to ride and fiddle with a bike as if in slow motion 'cos they couldn't afford a slow motion camera.


"But hairy's macho, innit?" said the ad director who knows nothing about cycling...


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...ur-de-france-route-as-joke-of-a-course-341835


So is that the same Porte who called the same descent of the Mont du Chat "fast but safe" in the Dauphiné? http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-purrs-on-dauphines-mont-du-chat/


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> So is that the same Porte who called the same descent of the Mont du Chat "fast but safe" in the Dauphiné? http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-purrs-on-dauphines-mont-du-chat/



"Froome cops a lot of flak from people who say that he can't descend but he showed today that he went full gas on the descent. I knew just to keep my cool and it wasn't at the point where I had to panic. We did a fast but safe descent." 

I guess it's easier to "keep your cool" if you're the race leader. But Porte has shown in the past that he can't handle pressure so well.


----------



## MacB (14 Jul 2017)

Ah Froome isn't that great he bottled the cross country bit yesterday. The real legend, Armstrong, would have ridden over the grass, bunny hopped the motorhome and re-joined the race.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> Ah Froome isn't that great he bottled the cross country bit yesterday. The real legend, Armstrong, would have ridden over the grass, bunny hopped the motorhome and re-joined the race.



Then been punished for not doing the defined route


----------



## hoopdriver (14 Jul 2017)

And then unpunished when footage emerged showing that they'd ridden in the tracks of a French rider who'd done exactly the same thing thirty seconds earlier...


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Then been punished for not doing the defined route


It would have been nice if they'd DQ'd Armstrong from the 2003 tour in 2012 for the off-roading in addition to the doping.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> And then unpunished when footage emerged showing that they'd ridden in the tracks of a French rider who'd done exactly the same thing thirty seconds earlier...


So you're not buying the claim that the team cars weren't able to come up on the penultimate climb?


----------



## hoopdriver (14 Jul 2017)

Just having a bit of fun really.

I think the bottle business was silly - nobody should have been penalised.


----------



## Hont (14 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> What's happened to Thibault Pinot?
> Former white jersey, top 10 and podium finisher, now completely invisible and down in 66th position next to Kwiatkowski, who has spent half the race flogging himself to death on the front, before relaxing and drifting down the field.
> 
> Giro effect?


I think he targeted the Giro (4th despite illness) and had no Tour ambitions (especially given the descent heavy route).


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Talking of Quintana; Why did the TV spend so long focused on him after he was dropped from the leading group? It's not like he was top three and loosing his placing, he was already miles behind.
> Can't believe he's the same rider from a couple of years ago (even accounting for him doing the Giro). Maybe he's been lying about his age and he's actually as old as he looks.




You aren't saying Quintana is the next Kanu, surely?


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2017)

The sprint is at 13.5km, so it looks as though it will be hectic straight from the start


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Oh crikey, Kirby's been reading the Tour website again.
> 
> 
> Well, North Somerset is the place to go if you want to hear the English language tortured in multiple ways - even though I've moved away!
> ...



Yes, let's advertise 'macho' to men who all want to be incredibly skinny, ride around in Lycra and shave their legs.


----------



## Hont (14 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Can't believe he's the same rider from a couple of years ago (even accounting for him doing the Giro). Maybe he's been lying about his age and he's actually as old as he looks.


In the blood passport era no-one has backed up a decent Giro performance at the Tour. IIRC no-one has made the podium of both in the same year since Pantani in '98.


----------



## Tynan (14 Jul 2017)

Hilarious watching the Sky team bickering at the finish after the horror of losing the yellow jersey by a few seconds, that's entitlement


----------



## Hont (14 Jul 2017)

Whilst you're waiting for the action to start, have a go at a quiz I made...

https://www.sporcle.com/games/Hont/tour-de-france-winners-by-picture


----------



## John the Monkey (14 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> The second hand watch advert is the worst.
> 
> The bloke's setup on the bike is farking annoying.


We've gone from Skoda, and their metal soundtracked emergency massages to this.

I've suggested that they improve the watch advert by flinging the chap onto a car bonnet and forcibly massaging his quads, then slamming the watch along a drystone wall as they stop to fix a mechanical, but no response as yet.


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

go on tommy v


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Hont said:


> Whilst you're waiting for the action to start, have a go at a quiz I made...
> 
> https://www.sporcle.com/games/Hont/tour-de-france-winners-by-picture



16/20



Spoiler



Should have recognised Delgado and Thevenet but didn't. Pereiro and Van Impe were the other two I didn't get.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

I very nearly went for Gilbert for the punditry today. Will be interesting to see if he can make his break stick. Great to see Chava in the mix as well.


----------



## Dayvo (14 Jul 2017)

Hont said:


> In the blood passport era no-one has backed up a decent Giro performance at the Tour. *IIRC no-one has made the podium of both in the same year since Pantani in '98*.



Yeah, and there's a good reason how he managed that, too.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2017)

Time penalties removed for Uran & Bennett


----------



## Hont (14 Jul 2017)

Reply to smutchin's spoiler post



Spoiler






smutchin said:


> 16/20
> Should have recognised Delgado and Thevenet but didn't. Pereiro and Van Impe were the other two I didn't get.



Good score. Just to spell Zoetemelk correctly is worth props. Everyone forgets Pereiro and what he looked like because he barely featured either before or after.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Rolland another rider showing the effects of the Giro.

Fuglsang looks like he's about to get off the bike.


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

Fuglsgang apparently having to ride the whole stage with his hands off the bars as he's in so much pain... ow. Not sure he's going to make it...


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Anyone still wondering about the best way to make the racing more lively?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Anyone still wondering about the best way to make the racing more lively?



A few night stages wouldn't go amiss. Gets the light manufacturers involved and lets those that work during the day see some live action.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

This is insane. 

I can see a few riders struggling to make the time cut today.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Perfectly poised race . . .


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Hey, who knew that Andrew Talansky was in the race?


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Bert's going well but can't see him rolling back the years


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

even if he doesn't abandon, I cant see Fuglsang making the time cut today, along with a few others , interesting racing though


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Bert's going well but can't see him rolling back the years



Depends what hes had for breakfast


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> even if he doesn't abandon, I cant see Fuglsang making the time cut today, along with a few others , interesting racing though


Not sure why he's carrying on though


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

me neither


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Chaves is having a 'mare too


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

A song for Quintana.....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8QlAMcaOBI


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

This scenery makes you want to ride there


----------



## Dayvo (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> This scenery makes you want to ride there



Yeah, downhill, stopping at ALL the bars on the way down.


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

yeah.... but going the opposite way than they are now


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

You've got to earn the downhills and the bars first


----------



## Beebo (14 Jul 2017)

Eurosport are calling Landa for yellow tonight, that would be a turn up for Sky.


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

This has to be the best days racing so far in this tour


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Contador FTW


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> You've got to earn the downhills and the bars first


The last mountain I cycled up, the headwind on the approach had slowed us so much that I couldn't stop at the bar on the way down else I'd've missed going out to the restaurant with my family for dinner


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> Eurosport are calling Landa for yellow tonight, that would be a turn up for Sky.


Eurosport? Really? Or just Kirby and Smith or whoever's messing up their audio this time?


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Yeah, downhill, stopping at ALL the bars on the way down.


Not seeing many bars on that one! Is that why Micky Snow went off to raid the camper vans yesterday?


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> Eurosport are calling Landa for yellow tonight, that would be a turn up for Sky.



He's got to have a shot at this point, no? Gap at 2'50"?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> He's got to have a shot at this point, no? Gap at 2'50"?



Team orders in play?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

Bardet is going to attack I feel it.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Landa's ride is all the more remarkable* considering how everyone else who rode the Giro is suffering.

*suspicious?


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

Froome only needs to track Aru and the others as he will take time off them in the TT, so he can still afford to measure his pace through to the next rest day. Having Landa in the top three really gives Sky tactical advantage.


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Landa's ride is all the more remarkable* considering how everyone else who rode the Giro is suffering.
> 
> *suspicious?



That's a fair point...


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

I keep wondering where dan martin would be if porte hadn't taken him down


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I keep wondering where dan martin would be if porte hadn't taken him down



He's riding this like a classic.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Landa's ride is all the more remarkable* considering how everyone else who rode the Giro is suffering.
> 
> *suspicious?



He rides for Sky so must be clean.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Is Froome struggling? Presumably the attacks will come close to the summit, wonder if Froome might not be able to go with them.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Is Froome struggling? Presumably the attacks will come close to the summit, wonder if Froome might not be able to go with them.



I was thinking that, he's out the saddle which is unlike him.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I keep wondering where dan martin would be if porte hadn't taken him down



I'm sure he would have won that stage, and who knows what else he might have done? He was complaining about his back being painful yesterday so the way he is riding right now is incredible.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Is Froome struggling? Presumably the attacks will come close to the summit, wonder if Froome might not be able to go with them.



With the exception of yesterday, everytime he lookalike he's struggling he isn't


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

froome attacks


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

jeez


----------



## Dayvo (14 Jul 2017)

Froome makes a break.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

reacted to


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> I was thinking that, he's out the saddle which is unlike him.



Guess he was bluffing!

He's done for Dan Martin though. Boo!


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

Kwiatkowski to slow it down to help Landa?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

tactics!!! block the road


----------



## Dayvo (14 Jul 2017)

Got a feeling that one of the 'climbers' is going to overcook it on the descent.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

"Tactics" all over the place.


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

Another stage (and there have been several) which challenges the assertion that the route this year is dull...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Be surprised if any GC shakeup today.


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

maybe not but at least theres been some attacks and some effort has been made


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

fuglsang has abandoned, it was only a matter of time


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Going by day One TT times, Landa will lose over 20 secs to Bardet and Aru in Marseille.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

If it rains for that TT its going to be a nail biter.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Jeez Uran :0


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

Uran throws some dice.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2017)

Great move by Uran.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Kwiat should be pulling like crazy to bring Uran back


----------



## Tynan (14 Jul 2017)

are Sky ever going to get called for blocking riders?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2017)

called for what?


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> "Tactics" all over the place.


Is that Froome's new nickname?


----------



## Buddfox (14 Jul 2017)

France are having a good Tour...!


----------



## Dayvo (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> This scenery makes you want to ride there



It makes me want to move/live there.


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

was landa asleep , he only reacted when all three passed him.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> was landa asleep , he only reacted when all three passed him.



He would only have gone wide on the last corner anyway


----------



## roadrash (14 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Fuglsang has finally seen sense and jacked it in.



Ahem.... see previous page, surprised he lasted so long


----------



## MacB (14 Jul 2017)

That was fun


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Matthews FTW tomorrow.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

That was a jolly wheeze


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2017)

A really enjoyable afternoon's viewing


----------



## MacB (14 Jul 2017)

Wow just heard Warren Barguil interviewed, maybe he needs to start mainlining the testosterone


----------



## Tynan (14 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> called for what?



Today is the third day that I've seen a Sky rider move across to stop or at least impeded someone chasing a Sky rider attacking or to stop someone trying to accelerate away, not just me, the commentators mentioned it each time as 'a little bit naughty'

a couple of days ago one of them moved left and then right to stop someone to accelerate past them and away

if that's not only cheating but against the spirit of the thing then what's the point


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Tynan said:


> Today is the third day that I've seen a Sky rider move across to stop or at least impeded someone chasing a Sky rider attacking or to stop someone trying to accelerate away, not just me, the commentators mentioned it each time as 'a little bit naughty'
> 
> a couple of days ago one of them moved left and then right to stop someone to accelerate past them and away
> 
> if that's not only cheating but against the spirit of the thing then what's the point



To my knowledge 'blocking' is only deemed possible during sprint finishes. Other than that I believe the road is presumed to be wide enough to 'go around'


----------



## Tynan (14 Jul 2017)

not arguing about the rules, more the spirit of the thing, it's like diving in football or arguing with the ref, gamesmanship at best


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

What a great stage. There have been some decent moments in this race but too much ennui in between.
Let's hope it kicks on from here.


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2017)

Tomorrow looks like a good stage


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> What a great stage. There have been some decent moments in this race but too much ennui in between.
> Let's hope it kicks on from here.



I'm not sure my "mystic marmion" preview was as optimistic as it "kicking on"...



Marmion said:


> And then 3 out of the last 6 stages are fecking sprint stages, and one of them is a short ITT. And the 2 stages that look like they might be ok are on a weekday again.






brommers said:


> Tomorrow looks like a good stage


My "mystic marmion" preview didn't think it was, as it was one of the:


Marmion said:


> ...2 half-assed "medium" (barely) mountain stages



But I think it will be a decent stage; I am currently trying to guess which Belgians will bugger off and take the top spots...


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

Great stage today,having to record and watch at night cause of work ! On a plus side,I get to wind on through adverts.Landa was something else again,especially after yesterdays effort.Does he have any facial expresions ?


Marmion said:


> But I think it will be a decent stage; I am currently trying to guess which Belgians will bugger off and take the top spots...


Cummings Belgian enough ?
.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Cummings Belgian enough ?



I'll award double points on Cummings in PTP if anyone is stupid enough to pick him...


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'll award double points on Cummings in PTP if anyone is stupid enough to pick him...



I hope you didn't award me bonus points for trying to win the bloody thing, as opposed to sticking for a top-5


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I hope you didn't award me bonus points for trying to win the bloody thing, as opposed to sticking for a top-5


You're ok, I am trying to find ways of penalising you...


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> And then 3 out of the last 6 stages are fecking sprint stages, and one of them is a short ITT. And the 2 stages that look like they might be ok are on a weekday again.


I'm going to boycott the sprint stages...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I'm going to boycott the sprint stages...


Final day?


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Final day?


The poncing about, glugging champagne day?
I'm not sure I want to watch the beautiful Marcel sprint to another easy win, to be honest.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> The poncing about, glugging champagne day?
> I'm not sure I want to watch the beautiful Marcel sprint to another easy win, to be honest.


I'm thinking of maybe going over - arrive morning, depart late evening - but then again I think about it most years...
£219 return at present. Which would be worth it just to see The Beautiful Marcel.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm thinking of maybe going over - arrive morning, depart late evening - but then again I think about it most years...
> £219 return at present. Which would be worth it just to see The Beautiful Marcel.


My mate just had a last minute booking holiday at 200 smackers for 2 weeks in Majorca, so my vote is that it ain't worth it.


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

Just booked for last day of Vuelta in Madrid,flight 45 return and hotel 50 for night.France on Sunday living the dream......


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> My mate just had a last minute booking holiday at 200 smackers for 2 weeks in Majorca, so my vote is that it ain't worth it.


I'm thinking I might get away with p*ssing off for less than a full day to Paris, I might be seen as taking the p*ss if I told Mrs M that I'd found a last minute deal on ceefax holidays...


----------



## Adam4868 (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm thinking I might get away with p*ssing off for less than a full day to Paris, I might be seen as taking the p*ss if I told Mrs M that I'd found a last minute deal on ceefax holidays...


Skyscanner is the future of domestic arguments !


----------



## Fight.The.Power (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm thinking of maybe going over - arrive morning, depart late evening - but then again I think about it most years...
> £219 return at present. Which would be worth it just to see The Beautiful Marcel.



Thinking of going over if Bardet gets yellow. £219 for CDG flight ? As far as Marcel is concerned. Meh. Cmon Matthews tomorrow FTW.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Thinking of going over if Bardet gets yellow. £219 for CDG flight ? As far as Marcel is concerned. Meh. Cmon Matthews tomorrow FTW.


Yeh, CDG from Edinburgh with Air France - 8.40am out and 8.35pm back

If it's anyone else but Froome I might just go.

And no way "meh" to The Beautiful Marcel


----------



## Starchivore (14 Jul 2017)

A great couple of stages, very nice to see the GC race back on


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2017)

Starchivore said:


> A great couple of stages, very nice to see the GC race back on


Maybe the race organisers have got it right?

Maybe what a Grand Tour needs is more "dull" stages to allow the GC riders fewer opportunities?

Perhaps it is the parcours we have all been waiting for and just don't realise it. 
(I am being serious)


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm thinking of maybe going over - arrive morning, depart late evening - but then again I think about it most years...
> £219 return at present. Which would be worth it just to see The Beautiful Marcel.


No your not


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> No your not


I am thinking about it, it's unlikely I will. I think about lots of stuff that I never do. Like awarding you lots of extra points in PTP for being punctual and usually first to post your choices. I was thinking 1000 points.


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am thinking about it, it's unlikely I will. I think about lots of stuff that I never do. Like awarding you lots of extra points in PTP for being punctual and usually first to post your choices. I was thinking 1000 points.


Have a safe journey and have a lovely time in France


----------



## mjr (15 Jul 2017)

Enough discussing Pass The Pigs, already!



Tynan said:


> not arguing about the rules, more the spirit of the thing, it's like diving in football or arguing with the ref, gamesmanship at best


If they're chasing so slowly that someone can overtake, pull in line and decelerate without them simply swinging past them, were they really chasing full gas? If they were trying to play some calculating game where they ride just hard enough to catch the leader near the finish and scalp them for the win, or just catch back enough time to keep the GC comfortably, then that's really gamesmanship so don't they deserve to get disrupted?


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am thinking about it, it's unlikely I will. I think about lots of stuff that I never do. Like awarding you lots of extra points in PTP for being punctual and usually first to post your choices. I was thinking 1000 points.



u wot


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

Wow! Yesterday was a fantastic day to be at the Tour!

So many things to tell . . . . We were at the Team Paddock when the busses rolled in. 

Had a chat with Louis Meintjes :-) Was great to see him again and he is very cool, calm and collected for a guy who came in 5th yesterday and is 10th overall in the Tour de France! Will post some pics later - it made Mrs Bonus' day, she considers herself to be South African because she lived there so long - I think she wants to adopt him! 

Saw Bertie and Nairo when they rode to sign in. NQ shows no emotion, ever. He was very concentrated his morning (I know why now) and was escorted to the sign in stage by a Movistar mechanic on an MTB. I cheered for Bertie as he rode past and he gave me a smile. 

Saw RJVJ and Jaco at the DDD bus but they weren't chatting much which was a shame after the nice chat we had with the guys in the support van the day before. I did get to talk to SC though. We couldn't see Daryl Impey but we did have a good look at the Orica bikes. 

Froome had a car escort him to sign on and he looked pretty chilled. Nice to see Sky actually engaging the supporters a bit more nowadays. 

Then we drove out to 4km from the end and waited. 

We had no phone service so what came next was completely out of the blue!

NQ was leading the break when they past us and they were flying! There was quite a gap and then in quick succession came a solo Dan Martin, who looked like he was burying himself - very impressed with him again this year - then a single rider I didn't identify followed by the yellow jersey group with Froome, Aru etc. after that there were some long gaps between various groups before the final rider past us.

We were on a slight down hill so they were all moving it. I took some vids. I'll see if they are good enough to post later. 

A great day out.

It seems like Bertie and NQ always get together and go full guns when I turn up to watch! The same thing happens at Stage 15 of the Vuelta last year!


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> then a single rider I didn't identify


Simon Yates in the Young Riders Jersey - probably the reason you didn't recognise him. Love your updates @Bonus - sounds like you're having a great time.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> ...who looked like he was burying himself



One of the things that has always struck me when I have seen pro races is just how much they do bury themselves, something you don't really pick up on the TV. The power and effort really is "something".


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

I'm thinking I should of picked Tommy V for today, one of his last real chances for a stage victory.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> I'm thinking I should of picked Tommy V for today, one of his last real chances for a stage victory.


Still time to change your pick...


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Simon Yates in the Young Riders Jersey - probably the reason you didn't recognise him. Love your updates @Bonus - sounds like you're having a great time.



Aaah nice one. He went past fast. I was trying to watch him and see who was coming next, and cheer, and wave a flag :-)

#multitaskingfail


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Still time to change your pick...


I'll do it


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> I'll do it


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

'The Cat' might score 10 points for me today


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> 'The Cat' might score 10 points for me today


I'll stick a "0" next to your name, and add the "1" if I need to...


----------



## CanucksTraveller (15 Jul 2017)

Does anyone know why Sky were wearing yellow race numbers and helmets yesterday despite not having Froome in the jersey? Simply a case of not expecting or being prepared for the eventually that he could lose it?


----------



## Rapples (15 Jul 2017)

Leading team I believe.


----------



## sleaver (15 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Just booked for last day of Vuelta in Madrid,flight 45 return and hotel 50 for night.France on Sunday living the dream......


When I was booking a holiday to Madrid in September I thought I'd have a look when the Vuelta ended.

Would have been rude not to adjust the flights by one day to see it


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Does anyone know why Sky were wearing yellow race numbers and helmets yesterday despite not having Froome in the jersey? Simply a case of not expecting or being prepared for the eventually that he could lose it?



They're leading the team classification, time taken for top 5 riders in GC - something Movistar have swept up in previous years


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Unusual tactics from Movistar this year, having a rider in every group on the course - obviously so they can cover every move.


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Too early for a Vuelta thread, but I've just noticed that Aqua Blue Sport have been rewarded for their excellent results, by being given a place on the startlist - pretty impressive for a new team.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Too early for a Vuelta thread, but I've just noticed that Aqua Blue Sport have been rewarded for their excellent results, by being given a place on the startlist - pretty impressive for a new team.



It's never too early, some numpty started a Giro thrwad


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

Caught up with Louis Meintjes at the start of yesterdays stage. By the end of the stage he was up to 9th position overall in the Tour de France! Awesome!

As you can see, the guy carries no extra eight at all.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Who is that being interviewed on ITV?

Edit - ignore that, just heard their name mentioned


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Really enjoying the Pippa York bit, great insight and interesting. Mind you she could probably be reading out the menu for her local takeaway and I'd claim it was the best thing I had ever heard. I might have a wee watch of The High Life yet again tonight, and buy a few retro jerseys.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Oh look, a field of photographers with some sunflowers in it


----------



## Adam4868 (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Oh look, a field of photographers with some sunflowers in it


Switch over and theirs a bike race on !


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

The 'Cat' has quit the race


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

Some pics from Thursdays Stage 12 . . . .

1) Find a spot with a view. We were on a climb on the route but we could also see down across a field to where they would come from.
2) Set up Camp
3)Wait for the Publicity Caravan to come through so you can get "free stuff" - we got loads :-)

We're supporting SA cyclists (having lived in SA for a while) and British Cyclists - 'cos were Brits.

Which camp does Froomey fall into???


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

After we'd watched Stage 12 (twice!) we jumped in the car to drive to our hotel in Saint-Girons ready for tomorrows start.

Part of our drive was on the course they'd just used and then we swung off north-east where they had ridden south-east. Shortly after we left the days course we passed the Fabio Casartelli memorial on the Col de Portet d'Aspet. Fabio died of head injuries at this point after crashing during Stage 15 of the Tour de France back in 1995 while riding for Team Motorola.

The following day, the Peloton let his team mates ride ahead of the pack and finish together as a mark of respect to their fallen team mate.

"His Motorola team continued the Tour de France, crossing the finish line of the next stage first, side by side in Pau. The Peloton followed behind, riding slowly. The Société du Tour de France awarded the stage prizes as normal, and the riders donated all the money won that day to a fund established for his family. The Tour later matched that amount, and thousands of individuals contributed to the fund"


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

@Bonus - either you've been messing about in Rick Moranis's lab again or the Casartelli monument is much bigger than I thought.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

How do I go about getting a Lotto-Soudal skinsuit? The only protean one I've seen in last 12 months have been one of Steve Cummings that showed up on facebook


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

I had Lammertink on my list of possible Wildcard picks - not necessarily for this stage though. Doesn't look like he's going to do it either.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

Where the hell is Aru. About to lose the tour, that's where


----------



## Fight.The.Power (15 Jul 2017)

Silly Aru


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

Ned is saying Aru has lost the jersey but is that certain? Didn't they change the rule this year so it needs to be a 3 second time gap for a split in the bunch to count?


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

OK, just seen the final classification: 4 second gap behind the Froome group, so I guess that counts.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Ned is saying Aru has lost the jersey but is that certain? Didn't they change the rule this year so it needs to be a 3 second time gap for a split in the bunch to count?



Yes, three seconds, there's a 4 second gap between the Froome group and the third tranche of riders (if Aru even in third pack)


----------



## themosquitoking (15 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Ned is saying Aru has lost the jersey but is that certain? Didn't they change the rule this year so it needs to be a 3 second time gap for a split in the bunch to count?


Not sure if that counts for today, pure sprint stages definitely.


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> Not sure if that counts for today, pure sprint stages definitely.



Good point. They've got the EBH/Froome group as 1 second behind the top two, so that would suggest not.

Aru is well down anyway - there was a 7 second gap between the Benoot group and the next bunch led in by Cimolai, and Aru wasn't even in that group.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2017)

Get in Froome.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Good point. They've got the EBH/Froome group as 1 second behind the top two, so that would suggest not.
> 
> Aru is well down anyway - there was a 7 second gap between the Benoot group and the next bunch led in by Cimolai.



25 seconds lost? Doughnut


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Two consecutive good stages and I think tomorrow should be too.


----------



## MasterDabber (15 Jul 2017)

Today's stage it was a 1 second gap. Great awareness by Froome.


----------



## Bollo (15 Jul 2017)

MasterDabber said:


> Great awareness by Froome.


There was a brief interview with Luke Rowe on the ITV coverage. He said they'd expected and planned for gaps at the finish and that Aru might get isolated given the weakness of his team, so probably more chapeaux to Team Sky's strategy and planning than Froome alone. But in the end Froome and the team had to deliver on the plan, so respect for that.


----------



## Bonus (15 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> @Bonus - either you've been messing about in Rick Moranis's lab again or the Casartelli monument is much bigger than I thought.



I am "actual size" in that pic . . . Does that help?

:-)


----------



## Fight.The.Power (15 Jul 2017)

It is absolute BS from Aru that 'it could happen to anyone'.

Today was the greatest degree of tactical ineptitude that I have ever seen from the Maillot Jaune.


----------



## SWSteve (15 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> It is absolute BS from Aru that 'it could happen to anyone'.
> 
> Today was the greatest degree of tactical ineptitude that I have ever seen from the Maillot Jaune.



I thought that 'this is what happens in racing' was a poor answer, why not just say 'I was in the wrong position at the boottom of the climb'


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> It is absolute BS from Aru that 'it could happen to anyone'.
> 
> Today was the greatest degree of tactical ineptitude that I have ever seen from the Maillot Jaune.



It was piss poor, wasn't it.

Some people are proclaiming Sky as tactical geniuses but I don't think you need to read Sun Tzu to work out that treating the Tour de France like it's a bike race is a good idea.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2017)

Aru was isolated from 5k out, I'm not sure he could have done anything from that point. Arguably he should have been stuck to Froome but it only takes a moment to lose a wheel and then if you've got no one to pull it back for you.....tough.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (15 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Aru was isolated from 5k out, I'm not sure he could have done anything from that point. Arguably he should have been stuck to Froome but it only takes a moment to lose a wheel and then if you've got no one to pull it back for you.....tough.



He should not have been in that position even at 5k out where at which point I agree he was already fooked. Everyone knows the peloton accelerates 'into' a finish like that. He should have been up at the front, stuck to Froome's wheel, way before 5k to go.


----------



## Ian H (15 Jul 2017)

There are still a few inclines, if he has the inclination. Aru seems happier when his front wheel is pointing up a bit.


----------



## 400bhp (15 Jul 2017)

So essentially the tour could be lost from the prologue and a 300m uphill sprint.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> So essentially the tour could be lost from the prologue and a 300m uphill sprint.



Marginal gains?


----------



## 400bhp (15 Jul 2017)

Just musing.. there seems more deadlock on long climbs but more difference on short steep sections. 

I'm thinking the power to weight thesis has been changed and could change stage racing forever.

Perhaps we are at an asymptotic limit for FTP per kilo but not for watts/kilo for times under a minute for the same cohort of riders.

Hence we may see more pointy stuff in the future?


----------



## 400bhp (15 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Marginal gains?



Top tactics...


----------



## mjr (15 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Hence we may see more pointy stuff in the future?


I hope not. We don't need two Vueltas a year.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Just musing.. there seems more deadlock on long climbs but more difference on short steep sections.
> 
> I'm thinking the power to weight thesis has been changed and could change stage racing forever.
> 
> ...


An interesting thought.


----------



## Adam4868 (15 Jul 2017)

Top tactics by Sky,and if one rider has stood out especially in today's stage it's Kwiatowski ! Held is own and brought Froomey where he wanted.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Perhaps we are at an asymptotic limit...



Yoo Wot?


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

letourdata said:
Chris Froome (SKY) was 6.6km/h faster than Fabio Aru (AST) in the final 500m, where he gained 25"


----------



## Bollo (15 Jul 2017)

I'm not an Aru fan but I don't think losing the yellow is totally down to tactical ineptitude on his part. Sky had a cunning plan and he was just bullied out of contention.


Marmion said:


> Yoo Wot?


I've reached the asymptotic limit of alcohol consumption .


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> I've reached the asymptotic limit of alcohol consumption .


I'm hoping if I keep drinking that I'll eventually realise the meaning


----------



## Bollo (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm hoping if I keep drinking that I'll eventually realise the meaning


Walk towards the light....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

Some numbers. The number of times and kms in a break so far.


----------



## rich p (15 Jul 2017)

If anyone asks you why it's a team sport, today provided a cogent explanation.

@Marmion might need to Google 'cogent'.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> If anyone asks you why it's a team sport, today provided a cogent explanation.
> 
> @Marmion might need to Google 'cogent'.


Why would anyone ask you why cycling is a team sport?

And you're clearly p*ssed to be using words like cogent.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

I have just been reading a Spanish website, translated by google, and found that Jarlinson Pantano translates as Jarlinson Swamp


----------



## rich p (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Why would anyone ask you why cycling is a team sport?
> 
> And you're clearly p*ssed to be using words like cogent.


I was asked that very question last night by a newbie TDF viewer


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I was asked that very question last night by a newbie TDF viewer


What was your reply?


----------



## ColinJ (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Really enjoying the Pippa York bit, great insight and interesting. Mind you she could probably be reading out the menu for her local takeaway and I'd claim it was the best thing I had ever heard. I might have a wee watch of The High Life yet again tonight, and buy a few retro jerseys.


Ah - I had been meaning to ask what had happened to PY because there has been no sign of her on the highlights shows. I'll record some of the live broadcasts.


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I have just been reading a Spanish website, translated by google, and found that Jarlinson Pantano translates as Jarlinson Swamp


Similar to the British surname Marsh


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Similar to the British surname Marsh


I wonder whatever happened to 1990s eco warrior and general unwashed scruffy bastid Swampy? 

(According to wiki he was/is living in a commune in Wales with his wife and 3 kids, working for the Forestry Commission and running marathons.)


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What was your reply?



"Don't ask me, I'm drunk."


----------



## brommers (15 Jul 2017)




----------



## rich p (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What was your reply?


I said to watch tomorrow's stage and learn but don't bother asking Marmion....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I said to watch tomorrow's stage and learn but don't bother asking Marmion....


As I thought, you didnae know...


----------



## rich p (15 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Really enjoying the Pippa York bit, great insight and interesting. Mind you she could probably be reading out the menu for her local takeaway and I'd claim it was the best thing I had ever heard. I might have a wee watch of The High Life yet again tonight, and buy a few retro jerseys.


Definitely equally as insightful as her/his musings on CyclingNews over the last year or two.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> View attachment 362414



I'm always p*ssed calm


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

View: https://youtu.be/QQj-W0nmOus


----------



## dragon72 (16 Jul 2017)

Some have said that this is a boring Tour de France. Are you on drugs? 
I've been watching Tours since well before they had to wear helmets and this has been one of my favourites yet. SMH.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (16 Jul 2017)

This Tour puts me in mind of Dickens, the best of times and the worst of times. Yes it is astonishingly close on GC, I don't recall a Tour where the time gaps have been so small at this point in the race. But there have been days and days of monumentally boring sprint stages, the same formulaic break within a few km of the start with absolutely no question at all about whether they will make it to the line. Only worth watching the last km or two. Yesterday was another example. Thank heavens we have Carlton and Sean to keep us entertained.
Definitely worth considering shorter stages.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Remember the "good old days" where breaks would sometimes get 25 mins or more on the group? ##

That's how Tommy V got into Yellow once and stayed there for over a week if I recall correctly. . .


----------



## hoopdriver (16 Jul 2017)

It's how Oscar Pereira ended up winning the tour in '06 - jumping up from 44th to second thanks largely to a long successful breakaway, and then of course having Floyd Landis later exposed as a cheat to give him the belated Yellow Jersey


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2017)

Nobody has said that all of it has been dull


----------



## brommers (16 Jul 2017)

On today's stage there is a kick-up 6km from the finish over about 1km at what looks about 6% - this could be very interesting


----------



## brommers (16 Jul 2017)

Matthews should clean up on the intermediate sprint, as Kittel will probably get dropped on the first climb, so expect Sunweb to set a fast pace at the front of the peloton


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

ColinJ said:


> Ah - I had been meaning to ask what had happened to PY because there has been no sign of her on the highlights shows. I'll record some of the live broadcasts.


Next appearance of PY on Thursday for La Course IIRC.

Anyone else slightly worried by a rider having strong days then weak days on a team managed by Vino?


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Aru might not be mr popular. Incredible post-stage interview with Valgren 


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWktmicAB2G/


----------



## Starchivore (16 Jul 2017)

Yikes Valgren doesn't sound happy there.

A lot of the pundits were blaming Aru's team, so it's interesting to hear that from Valgren, that Aru just needed to follow him. Chris Boardman was also saying on ITV that Aru should have just been able to follow wheels and stay up there regardless of teammates. 

It's a shame really, I wanted Aru to keep it to make it more of a contest. But certainly still time for some twists and turns.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Remember the "good old days" where breaks would sometimes get 25 mins or more on the group? ##
> 
> That's how Tommy V got into Yellow once and stayed there for over a week if I recall correctly. . .


Yes the halcyon days when there would be 50km of attacking before the break got away and then the suspense about whether it would stay away to the finish. And those brilliant days when they either made it to the finish with the bunch a second away from their rear wheels or when they got caught with less than 100m to the line. Doesn't seem to be happening this Tour.


----------



## brommers (16 Jul 2017)

So far Lilian Calmejane is the only winner from a breakaway. Last year there were several.


----------



## Aravis (16 Jul 2017)

I thought Pippa York was really good yesterday - much more relaxed. Her response to the "What was your favourite col" question showed excellent taste.


----------



## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2017)

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the poppy lottery.


----------



## Dave Davenport (16 Jul 2017)

Bardet 2nd, Uran 3rd. by the end of today (other outcomes are available).


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2017)

That river is greener than Kittel....


----------



## MacB (16 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> That river is greener than Kittel....



But not as pretty


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> But not as pretty


I prefer brunettes...


----------



## MacB (16 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I prefer brunettes...



I'm more grey these days but glad to know you still think of me


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Just got home and put the telly on... hmmm, interesting. That's a _very_ strong breakaway group.

Interesting to note which teams aren't represented though. Surprised not to see any Movistar riders in there.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Just got home and put the telly on... hmmm, interesting. That's a _very_ strong breakaway group.


It is, and a good few punditry picks in there


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2017)

I am currently watching Eurosport coverage as Mrs M has the tennis on, and just seen the Alpecin advert. FFS...


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> It is, and a good few punditry picks in there



Yeah, all the riders I had on my shortlist - except the ones I actually picked.

Several potential 1-2-3s though.


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I am currently watching Eurosport coverage as Mrs M has the tennis on, and just seen the Alpecin advert. FFS...



More power


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2017)

Have you seen how much those watches are on watchfinder: You must be kiddin'!


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

These roadside scenes piss me off

Pierre: "much planned for tomorrow Jean-Luc?
Jean-Luc: "Yeah, got lots of driving to do in my tractor"
P: "but the tour passes through our village, you should come watch"
J-L"why do you think I'm in the tractor, I'm in one of those beautiful roadside scenes, Bernard and Francois organised a group of us to drive round in circles, things like that are more important than the race itself"


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Have you seen how much those watches are on watchfinder: You must be kiddin'!



Cheaper than brand new though. Some city trader who'a going through the ringer in a divorce needs to fund his soon to be divorcees lawyer


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Cheaper than brand new though. Some city trader who'a going through the ringer in a divorce needs to fund his soon to be divorcees lawyer


My heart generally bleeds for city brokers going through a hard time.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Tony Martin going solo off the front! 

Let the dribbling commence . . . . 

61km to go


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Tony Martin going solo off the front!
> 
> Let the dribbling commence . . . .
> 
> 61km to go



Hoping he can make it. Love seeing his moves go off, it'd be interesting to see a 2-up ŵith Kiriyenka if they ever were given chance to get off the front


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

I'm probably not the first person ever to notice this but...

Tony Martin has the hindquarters of a racehorse.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Gap at 8.47 with 52.6km to go


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

He always look pretty big on a bike but we saw him up close the other day and he's actually quite a small chap - but with legs like a T-Rex!


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I'm probably not the first person ever to notice this but...
> 
> Tony Martin has the hindquarters of a racehorse.




View: https://twitter.com/RealBobMortimer/status/886531195214995456


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Gap at 9.21 and the Peloton just shat itself!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> View: https://twitter.com/RealBobMortimer/status/886531195214995456




Jeez it looks like someone has airbrushed a vagina onto his thigh.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Gap at 9.26 with 40km to go. If anyone can TT himself to the line, TM can.


----------



## youngoldbloke (16 Jul 2017)

Are the ads supposed to induce us to actually use a company's services? As an O2 victim - no mobile coverage whatsoever, the litle geese are seriously pissing me off.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Gap at 9.26 with 40km to go. If anyone can TT himself to the line, TM can.



No chance


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Froome floundering!


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

FROOME puncture?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bardet should punch it here. No 'respecting the yellow' here. Race was already full on.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> No chance



You could be right - the group are working hard right now.

Would have liked to see it.


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Gal between main break and Martin decreasing, as expected


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> You could be right - the group are working hard right now.
> 
> Would have liked to see it.



Me too but PanzerWagen has lost a wheel or two in recent years.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

J1888 said:


> FROOME puncture?



Bad time to be off the back! Has team mates though.


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Bardet should punch it here. No 'respecting the yellow' here. Race was already full on.



Exactly, the fight was on, he dropped out then punctured


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Allez AG2R !!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Great move by AG2R. Naesen is putting in a cracking effort.


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Bad time to be off the back! Has team mates though.


 
If only Aru had a team


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Landa in the 'GC' group, as is Rigo!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Gap at 9.26 with 40km to go. If anyone can TT himself to the line, TM can.



4.5km to the summit, just over a minute lead. If he can stay in front over the top, it's in the bag. Will be hard though, even for Martin.


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Could Landa overtake Froome in the GC?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2017)

Tony Martin looks knackered


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Barguil has Martin


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2017)

0.2km in it between Froome and and the Aru group


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

I think TM has had it.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Froome on his own now.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Bardet planning to launch off the front on the steep bit?


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Landa now helping Froome, shame the crowd booing Froome


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

AG2R digging deep.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

J1888 said:


> Landa now helping Froome, shame the crowd booing Froome



Disgraceful


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Ok Froome is back. Phew!


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Disgraceful



I don't like Sky, but I can't imagine going to a race, watching them suffer and booing


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Not cool. They might be a bit clinical in their riding, but they don't rely on dodgy race commissioners to get them through.


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

OK, he had Nieve and Landa drag him back but how much will that have hurt?


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Oh well, some guy just mooned Barguil.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Got to hand it to Froome, has stayed calm through an absolute clusterfuk


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

J1888 said:


> Oh well, some guy just mooned Barguil.



Probably the 'mooner' was not looking for a specific target just the first opportunity


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Got to hand it to Froome, has stayed calm through an absolute clusterfuk




That could have been so much worse!


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2017)

Aru has no teamates left


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Should be just a GC gruppetto into Le Puy now you would think?


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Aru has no teamates left



You could probably repeat this for every stage!


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

NQ has a team mate but he's a little way back


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2017)

Watching Quintana going backwards and Landa going forwards after them both doing the Giro is quite a contrast.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Ulissi has been conspicuously keeping his powder dry in the lead group...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Ulissi has been conspicuously keeping his powder dry in the lead group...



Ulissi has this.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Could well be a good day for UAE


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Froome egg-whisking his way up the hill!


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Hold on Louis!


----------



## User169 (16 Jul 2017)

'Mon Bauke!


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Dan burying himself again!


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

DAN! DAN! DAN!


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

5km to go and Ulissi tries


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Hold on Louis!



Haha wondered what the hell you were talking about. You can't be watching on itv lol

I saw the swinging 'Louis' about a minute after your post.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Haha wondered what the hell you were talking about. You can't be watching on itv lol



Watching on Spanish tv with no commentary !


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Just saying what I can see! Lol


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

These four look like they're riding for second place. Twats.

Chapeau to Mollema though. He deserves this.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Just saying what I can see! Lol



You've been watching Catchphrase reruns haven't you lol !


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> You've been watching Catchphrase reruns haven't you lol !



What do points make? Lol


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> These four look like they're riding for second place. Twats.
> 
> Chapeau to Mollema though. He deserves this.



Yeh they've been pissing about. 18' into a head wind 4v1 - with 8km to go.


----------



## Tynan (16 Jul 2017)

fantastic, well done that man

(group 2 didn't seem too interested mind did they?)


----------



## roadrash (16 Jul 2017)

go on dan the man


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

ALLEZ, DAN!!!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Would have been worth Ulissi punching it to pull Mollema back from the start. He would have still won the sprint.


----------



## roadrash (16 Jul 2017)

Quintana 3 mins back from froome


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin gets married and turns into Wolverine.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

'So I know where to build a church '

'Go home Pierre - you're drunk'


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Would like to have been a labourer on that job!


----------



## J1888 (16 Jul 2017)

Love love love Dan Martin


----------



## roadrash (16 Jul 2017)

come on DAN


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Great candid interview of Dan.


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Last Thursday night we stayed in a rather bleak hotel in order to be at the start of Fridays Stage 13 from Saint-Girons. The sacrifices we have to make!

I took one picture of the Sign-On ramp the evening before the start and the rest the following morning. We were at the Team Paddock when all the various Official Vehicles, Caravan Vehicles & Team Cars & Buses arrived and we got to see a few of the riders as they made their way down to the sigh-in area on their bikes. . . .






























Some lovely kit out there!


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

A few more . . . And a collection of Points Competition Teddies


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2017)

Great recovery from Froome. Good to see Yates have an attack and even better Martin nicking a few seconds


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

National Champions get the insides of their forks custom painted


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

Chris, Bertie, NQ, Reinardt Janse Van Rensburg - Current SA National Champion and Mr Cummings . . .


----------



## Bonus (16 Jul 2017)

And finally - some Team Sky vehicles . . .


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

In that photo Bertie has the look of a man who is too old for a nightclub, but is there regardless


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Last Thursday night we stayed in a rather bleak hotel in order to be at the start of Fridays Stage 13 from Saint-Girons. The sacrifices we have to make!
> 
> I took one picture of the Sign-On ramp the evening before the start and the rest the following morning. We were at the Team Paddock when all the various Official Vehicles, Caravan Vehicles & Team Cars & Buses arrived and we got to see a few of the riders as they made their way down to the sigh-in area on their bikes. . . .
> View attachment 362512
> ...



Fantastic!


----------



## Starchivore (16 Jul 2017)

Pleased for Dan Martin- he seems a nice guy, always, as others have said here, gives a thoughtful and honest interview- seems to genuinely consider the questions and try to answer them, instead of rolling out the cliches as some do (although who can blame them, after all those miles).


----------



## brommers (16 Jul 2017)

Bauke Mollema's win today was reminiscent of his victory at the Clasica San Sebastian last year. Gallopin 2nd that day.


----------



## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2017)

It's looking like the Col de Izoard might be an epic


----------



## Buck (16 Jul 2017)

That was a great recovery by Froome - could have been very different and good riding by Landa - he looks so strong and relaxed.


----------



## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2017)

Landa has looked supreme its insane the way he pulled back Froome, then when Yates had a go, who was there again.


----------



## roadrash (16 Jul 2017)

In Kendal at last years tour of Britain ,I chatted to dan martin for a few mins as he warmed down on the rollers at the side of the team bus , he really did seem to be a down to earth genuine nice chap.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2017)

ITV highlights were amusing. Not sure who the Astana rider was (Micheal Valgren I think), but they showed an interview with him at the end of yesterdays stage and he was not impressed with Aru and seemed pleased that he had lost yellow. Roll onto today and he was interviewed before the stage and had obviously had a right bollocking and was 100% behind Aru


----------



## Buck (16 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> ITV highlights were amusing. Not sure who the Astana rider was (Micheal Valgren I think), but they showed an interview with him at the end of yesterdays stage and he was not impressed with Aru and seemed pleased that he had lost yellow. Roll onto today and he was interviewed before the stage and had obviously had a right bollocking and was 100% behind Aru



Yes, I thought that too ! They said he must have had the team hairdryer treatment ! Suddenly back on message


----------



## perplexed (16 Jul 2017)

Love the Tour de France.



Intensely dislike the unsporting tossers at the side of the road.

Edit to add - not only are they total tossers, they are an embarrassment to the sport. Doesn't belong in cycling. Imagine what first time viewers must think.


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Would have been worth Ulissi punching it to pull Mollema back from the start. He would have still won the sprint.


Mollema isn't a bad time triallist, I think, so I suspect it would probably have wiped out the chance of whoever chased most... so how do you win from the second group then? Come to a so-called understanding with another rider?


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> Edit to add - not only are they total tossers, they are an embarrassment to the sport. Doesn't belong in cycling. Imagine what first time viewers must think.


What an arse, in both senses.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> Love the Tour de France.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't know much about the history of cycling if you think unsporting fans are not part of cycling


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Mollema isn't a bad time triallist, I think, so I suspect it would probably have wiped out the chance of whoever chased most... so how do you win from the second group then? Come to a so-called understanding with another rider?



Mollema isn't _that_ good a time triallist - especially not compared to Roglic.

The other four should have been able to reel him in if they were working together properly but their failure was partly down to dicking about, partly down to being too cooked by that stage of the race. Ulissi should have been relatively fresh though, considering how little work he'd done in the break all day.


----------



## perplexed (16 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> You can't know much about the history of cycling if you think unsporting fans are not part of cycling



I'm aware of the history ta - doesn't stop me voicing my opinion that they are nobbers, regardless of which generation they belong to.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> You can't know much about the history of cycling if you think unsporting fans are not part of cycling



Indeed. Merkcx, Puy de Dome, 1975, lest we forget.

Being booed is the stuff of pantomimes, not worth taking too seriously.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> Imagine what first time viewers must think.



If they watch football, they'll have seen much worse.


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Mollema isn't _that_ good a time triallist - especially not compared to Roglic.
> 
> The other four should have been able to reel him in if they were working together properly but their failure was partly down to dicking about, partly down to being too cooked by that stage of the race. Ulissi should have been relatively fresh though, considering how little work he'd done in the break all day.


Yeah a four rider chase might have caught him, but back in reality, in any group of four, you're likely to get one daffodil who soft pedals or misses turns due to hoping to be fresher for the finish, or one rider who is actually too cooked to contribute but it makes the others think they're trying to save themselves, so there's almost never a four rider chase from a four rider group, is there?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Yeah a four rider chase might have caught him, but back in reality, in any group of four, you're likely to get one daffodil who soft pedals or misses turns due to hoping to be fresher for the finish, or one rider who is actually too cooked to contribute but it makes the others think they're trying to save themselves, so there's almost never a four rider chase from a four rider group, is there?



Totally disagree.


----------



## perplexed (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> If they watch football, they'll have seen much worse.



Absolutely true. Cycling has an uphill battle to start with, as the standard assumption amongst the 'uninitiated' is 'that they're all on drugs anyway'... Crap behaviour doesn't help the image and perception, that's my opinion anyhow. I know it's always been there, but the TdF is a 'gateway' event to the world of cycling and is more prevalent on the telly than before. Cycling could just do without the pillocks.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> there's almost never a four rider chase from a four rider group, is there?



Sometimes the chasing group can't even work together properly when they're team-mates - remember Stannard winning the Omloop Het Nieuwsblad a couple of years ago? Priceless.


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Totally disagree.


I await your counterexamples.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> I await your counter examples.



Not gonna get them 

It's just so wrong it's not worth typing but you are entitled to your opinion.


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Not gonna get them


Then you're about as reliable as Valgren...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Then you're about as reliable as Valgren...



Keep dangling that rod in the water, changes nothing


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Great candid interview of Dan.



He keeps coming across well. I assume he's from a part of Ireland close to where Mick McCarthy is from?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> He keeps coming across well. I assume he's from a part of Ireland close to where Mick McCarthy is from?



What Birmingham ?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> What Birmingham ?


Whooshh!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Whooshh!



Did I just miss something lol ?


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Did I just miss something lol ?


I think that was Steve's joke!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (16 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I think that was Steve's joke!



Ah ok. Gotcha


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Ah ok. Gotcha


Don't worry. Jokes are meant to be funny rather than xenophobic.

On that note: do you think Froome is getting extra abuse because Bardet is so close?

And according to autocorrect, Fromm is leading Ari, Beret and Iran, while Bashful has the polka dots, Kiel the green (I've seen Kitten a few times above) and Yates escapes with the white! Seen any other good ones?


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> On that note: do you think Froome is getting extra abuse because Bardet is so close?



Or because they were on Bardet's manor today...


----------



## mjr (16 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Or because they were on Bardet's manor today...


Ah, I missed that!


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (17 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've just been reading about Roche in the '87 Giro ...


At least the tifosi had a clear reason for booing Roche in 87, he'd attacked his team leader and their idol. The morons yesterday had no such justification.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2017)

Tim Wellens has pulled out after declining to apply for a TUE for corticoids to treat an allergy. 

Good for him.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> The second hand watch advert is the worst.
> 
> The bloke's setup on the bike is farking annoying.



Tell me more.


----------



## Aravis (17 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> *At least the tifosi had a clear reason for booing Roche in 87*, he'd attacked his team leader and their idol. The morons yesterday had no such justification.


Not really, Roche was quite within his rights to make the break on the Sappada stage, thereby putting pressure on the other teams. The fact that Visentini and his gang reacted in such paranoid fashion put them on the wrong side of the moral argument. But Roche knew they'd do that, making the whole thing a lot more murky. Hardly surprising that people took sides, but clear reason it was not.

Incidentally, Roche had a couple of weeks off after winning a fiercely competitive and emotionally draining Giro and then won the Tour. Now that there's a decent gap between the two, I keep hearing it's too hard for modern riders to be competitive in both. Why is this?


----------



## 400bhp (17 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> At least the tifosi had a clear reason for booing Roche in 87, he'd attacked his team leader and their idol. The morons yesterday had no such justification.



Apart from the race was passing through Bardet's birthplace.

And they are French, not British and so they have a different mentality.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2017)

Just as well they've stopped dragging riders off their bikes to give them a kicking


----------



## MacB (17 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Just as well they've stopped dragging riders off their bikes to give them a kicking



If that was resurrected who'd be your star of the piece?


----------



## Aravis (17 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Jeez, the roadside of the tour is not Lords Cricket ground, where anything beyond a ripple of polite applause will draw disapproving looks.


Once upon a time, maybe.

Thinking about it, it was the 1959 Tour when prominent riders were booed quite justifyably. A story well worth reading - I certainly don't remember it. Being too young to have witnessed the Anquetil era is quite a regret - he seems to have been a fascinating character. I'd also have more than the most fleeting memories of real life steam trains, but there's also a good chance I'd be dead. What a choice.


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Jul 2017)

I've only taken a bit of interest in the tour in the last few years, but do the French boo every non-French winner, or is Froome being singled out?

Apart from being non-French and faster than their chaps, I can't think why Froome should get more abuse than the many other non-French winners.

Froome's personality cannot match Roger Federer levels of niceness, but he's inoffensive, bordering on dull.

Perhaps the French crowd is more frustrstated by Froome's dominance because there are now some genuine French contenders who Froome is preventing from winning.

In previous years, none of the French riders had a hope, so maybe the crowd couldn't care who won because they knew it couldn't be a Frenchman.


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2017)

Yep, it's Sky thing. 'F**k Sky' was painted on the road where we were in Cherbourg last year and anything Sky branded was getting booed, what with the murky TUE debacle and Dave B's less than convincing performance, I expected it to be worse this year (I'm not saying it's ok by the way).


----------



## Bonus (17 Jul 2017)

I read elsewhere today that it was Spanish fans booing SKY/Chris and the reason was that they were angry with Landa not be allowed to go for it the other day.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> If that was resurrected who'd be your star of the piece?


I reckon each team should have a proper Wildman, a complete nutjob who could be used to protect the rest of his team from spectators; they could ride along with wooden clubs strapped to their bikes and wallop spectators if they got in the way or looked a bit dodgy. A sure-fire winner.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> ...but do the French boo every non-French winner, or is Froome being singled out?





Bonus said:


> I read elsewhere today that it was Spanish fans booing SKY/Chris and the reason was that they were angry with Landa not be allowed to go for it the other day.


Bloody foreigners!

Still, they've not as bad as those Italians...


----------



## Bonus (17 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I reckon each team should have a proper Wildman, a complete nutjob who could be used to protect the rest of his team from spectators; they could ride along with wooden clubs strapped to their bikes and wallop spectators if they got in the way or looked a bit dodgy. A sure-fire winner.



Froome can take care of himself when he needs to . . .


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2017)

The rest day is speculation day. My speculation is that Froome is a cut above everyone else, with a caveat. There aren't many riders who could have got back on yesterday with AG2R riding so hard and not many teams with the riders to bridge that gap. So he effectively rode away from everyone else going full gas, if they'd been level, so I'm expecting him to blow the race apart on stage 18. The caveat is, he's always weaker in the third week.

Bardet for all his good work, could come undone and off the podium in the final TT, so he really needs minutes going into it and I can't see him doing that. Uran is looking good for a podium if he can hold his form. Landa too, if he continues his unreal form. I don't think Martin can hold on in the alps and Yates will probably go past him. Quintana always goes well in week 3 but who knows now. Aru is looking good so far but again the TT could do for him.


----------



## Pale Rider (17 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Yep, it's Sky thing. 'F**k Sky' was painted on the road where we were in Cherbourg last year and anything Sky branded was getting booed, what with the murky TUE debacle and Dave B's less than convincing performance, I expected it to be worse this year (I'm not saying it's ok by the way).



I can't imagine bellowing abuse at a cyclist because of what's written on his jersey, but we've seen tantrums thrown on here at the mention of Sky, so I'm sure you are on the right lines.

Seems to me Sky - rather like Manchester City - can buy whoever they want.

One might think a team in search of young talent would look closely at the emerging French riders.

It will be interesting if Sky buy Bardet to see if he gets abuse next year when he rides past the knuckle draggers in his Sky branded yellow jersey.


----------



## Hont (17 Jul 2017)

Re-post for rest day time filling, for those that have not yet had a go...



Hont said:


> ... have a go at a quiz I made...
> 
> https://www.sporcle.com/games/Hont/tour-de-france-winners-by-picture


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> I can't imagine bellowing abuse at a cyclist because of what's written on his jersey, but we've seen tantrums thrown on here at the mention of Sky, so I'm sure you are on the right lines.
> 
> Seems to me Sky - rather like Manchester City - can buy whoever they want.
> 
> ...



I think quite a few of the French see Sky as the new US Postal/Discovery (including the pharmaceutical element). I'd have loved to see Froome jump ship and join a French team or, as has been mentioned, Sky to sign a French (future?) GC contender (Lilian Calmejane?).


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Bardet for all his good work, could come undone and off the podium in the final TT, so he really needs minutes going into it and I can't see him doing that. Uran is looking good for a podium if he can hold his form. Landa too, if he continues his unreal form. I don't think Martin can hold on in the alps and Yates will probably go past him. Quintana always goes well in week 3 but who knows now. Aru is looking good so far but again the TT could do for him.


Looking ahead to the TT, apart from Froome, most of the GC men aren't very good time trailers. In fact I was surprised to see that Simon Yates was the best of the rest.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Looking ahead to the TT, apart from Froome, most of the GC men aren't very good time trailers. In fact I was surprised to see that Simon Yates was the best of the rest.


Indeed. It could make for an interesting fight for podium places, depending on how the alps shake things out. Even Contador could still be in with a shout.


----------



## mjr (17 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Looking ahead to the TT, apart from Froome, most of the GC men aren't very good time trailers. In fact I was surprised to see that Simon Yates was the best of the rest.


How are you looking ahead? It sounds like you're looking back to stage 1


----------



## Aravis (17 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that an ideal ingredient for a grand tour is intra-team rivalry, with riders attacking their team leader, or each other or whatever. The 1959 French riders (intra-national in that case), Roche/Visentini, Hinault/Lemond, even Froome/Wiggins.
> 
> Prudhomme should employ rumour-mongers to spread discontent and distrust in the major teams before each tour.


They've certainly made for compulsive viewing. Riis/Ullrich in 1996/97 could be added to that list.

Maybe intra-team rivalry is the best strategy. Apart from 1959 when Anquetil's objective was sabotage, in all these cases the team has ended up winning. That's a bit counter-intuitive - you'd think that a divided team would be making itself vulnerable, but I'm strugging to think of a case where this had happened.

In 1990, I remember that Indurain continued to be Delgado's faithful team-mate long after it was obvious he was the stronger. I don't know if he could have won that year but the strategy certainly didn't give the team its best chance.

The 1981 Giro was an interesting one - the Bianchi team with Prim, Contini and Baronchelli should have had the strength to win, but they tried to do things democratically and missed out.


----------



## hoopdriver (17 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Didn't Bertie and Armstrong have a falling out in Astana in Armstrong's comeback too. (And he won, too)


Big time, yes.


----------



## User169 (17 Jul 2017)

Brailsford trying to get a journo banned from a press conference..

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-launches-rant-against-cyclingnews-journalist/


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2017)

DP said:


> Brailsford trying to get a journo banned from a press conference..
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-launches-rant-against-cyclingnews-journalist/


Oh dear.


----------



## hoopdriver (17 Jul 2017)

What a lovely man...


----------



## mjr (17 Jul 2017)

DP said:


> Brailsford trying to get a journo banned from a press conference..
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-launches-rant-against-cyclingnews-journalist/


So, Dave Bruyneel or an attempt to avoid more questions about whether Landa/Froome is this year's Froome/Wiggins?


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2017)

If anyone wants more detail about the Tim Wellens story:
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...-treat-illness-abandons-tour-de-france-342198

“That was his choice, yes,” Bingé said when asked if it was true Wellens refused a TUE. “I think he just wanted to be fair. He’s a fair athlete and I thank him for that. I think this is a major mental flip with young athletes and it is a good thing.”


----------



## roadrash (17 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I reckon each team should have a proper Wildman, a complete nutjob who could be used to protect the rest of his team from spectators; they could ride along with wooden clubs strapped to their bikes and wallop spectators if they got in the way or looked a bit dodgy. A sure-fire winner.



you could add another dimension to pro tour punditry, bonus points for whos Wildman pick decks the most spectators


----------



## Viking (17 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> So, Dave Bruyneel or an attempt to avoid more questions about whether Landa/Froome is this year's Froome/Wiggins?


Or neither (and I'm not a SDB fan). Cyclingnews's standard of journalism is crap and they are forever going for click bait headlines that can't / aren't backed up by the story 

That twat who does the ITV4 side stories and some of the post race interviews is no better. He has tried to trap Dan Martin a couple of times through mis-quotes and assertions. Dan deserves better than to have to endure that prat's attempts at generating headlines.


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> you could add another dimension to pro tour punditry, bonus points for whos Wildman pick decks the most spectators


Bouhanni would only need a little bit of re-training for this and I'm sure the rest of the peloton would be happy


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2017)

Aravis said:


> I thought Pippa York was really good yesterday - much more relaxed. Her response to the "What was your favourite col" question showed excellent taste.


What did she say?


----------



## roadrash (17 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Bouhanni would only need a little bit of re-training for this and I'm sure the rest of the peloton would be happy



I would be happy if the rest of the peleton turned on boohoohani  I really don't like the nobber


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2017)

Lovely Dr Hutch interview with Steve Cummings posted on twitter a few days ago, though presumably recorded ahead of this year's Tour starting:

View: https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/885932732114763777


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2017)

suzeworld said:


> What did she say?


Aravis. To save you waiting on Aravis...


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Aravis. To save you waiting on Aravis...



Thanks.


----------



## Beebo (17 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Or neither (and I'm not a SDB fan). Cyclingnews's standard of journalism is crap and they are forever going for click bait headlines that can't / aren't backed up by the story
> .


The comments below the article mainly back that up. I am surprised they havent turned comments off.


----------



## mjr (17 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> That twat who does the ITV4 side stories and some of the post race interviews is no better.


Just to be clear, do you mean the reporter with the hoarse voice or the one with the curly hair?


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (17 Jul 2017)

Aravis said:


> Not really, Roche was quite within his rights to make the break on the Sappada stage, thereby putting pressure on the other teams. The fact that Visentini and his gang reacted in such paranoid fashion put them on the wrong side of the moral argument. But Roche knew they'd do that, making the whole thing a lot more murky. Hardly surprising that people took sides, but clear reason it was not.
> 
> Incidentally, Roche had a couple of weeks off after winning a fiercely competitive and emotionally draining Giro and then won the Tour.


And he won that by playing dirty too. Getting his team to load the feed musettes with rocks and to put the food in his bottles so he could attack Jean Francois Bernard through the feed zone. Bernard still refers to him as a snake to this day.


----------



## Aravis (17 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Aravis. To save you waiting on Aravis...


Er, yes, thanks. Sorry, I was cooking the dinner.

Glad I didn't mishear.


----------



## Viking (17 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Just to be clear, do you mean the reporter with the hoarse voice or the one with the curly hair?


Dunno and on reflection it might have been the ITV4 mic that led me to think it was an ITV4 interviewer. If that is the case, I retract the ITV4 bit but whoever he is, it is still out of order.


----------



## Aravis (17 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> And he won that by playing dirty too. Getting his team to load the feed musettes with rocks and to put the food in his bottles so he could attack Jean Francois Bernard through the feed zone. Bernard still refers to him as a snake to this day.


The part of that story I'd heard is that Mottet and Fignon planned the attack through the feed zone and tipped off Roche and Delgado. So if that's anything like true Roche isn't totally to blame.

The more damning incident from that Tour, if I remember correctly, was when Roche took an illegal feed on the climb to La Plagne, and was docked 10 seconds - a pretty good deal when you need to pull back a minute and a half to secure your place in Tour folklore. Never gets mentioned...


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2017)

@smutchin made a good point in the PPP , Colbrelli has had a good Tour even if he's flown under the radar


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2017)

https://t.co/DUqmMlma0I
Inside Stevo's suitcase


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Millar picked his TdF all time team last night. Personally I'd have gone for some more interesting and obscure choices. For instance there was a Belgian guy not many people remember called Merckx who might be worth a wildcard pick...


Perhaps a "your all time TDF team" feature on this thread is required? I'll do mine at the end of the week when home.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> @smutchin made a good point in the PPP , Colbrelli has had a good Tour even if he's flown under the radar



I thought it was a bit of a punt, to be honest. I'm banking on Kittel and Greipel getting dropped but I'm not confident the early hills are tough enough. Expecting Sunweb to attack from KM 0 though - Barguil will want the points for the climbs, and Matthews will want to get to the intermediate sprint ahead of Kittel. 

Sounds like it could be a very wind-affected day today. That might even work in Kittel's favour.


----------



## BrumJim (18 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Expecting Sunweb to attack from KM 0 though - Barguil will want the points for the climbs, ....


How many more points does he need? He's leading KoM by some distance now.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (18 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not something I'd attempt myself. I found Millar 's a bit odd, but it was just a bit of rest day blather. Anquetil as a designated domestique was another oddity.


The whole thing is a bit odd though isn't it ? Nobody can have any idea how the riders of yesteryear could perform in today's conditions, and vice versa. Stage distances, drugs, nutrition, bike technology, especially weight and gear ratios, power meters, team tactics, and road surfaces all make it an impossible question.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Not something I'd attempt myself. I found Millar 's a bit odd, but it was just a bit of rest day blather. Anquetil as a designated domestique was another oddity.





Flick of the Elbow said:


> The whole thing is a bit odd though isn't it ? Nobody can have any idea how the riders of yesteryear could perform in today's conditions, and vice versa. Stage distances, drugs, nutrition, bike technology, especially weight and gear ratios, power meters, team tactics, and road surfaces all make it an impossible question.



I was looking at it as "a bit of fun" rather than a complicated angst-filled event


----------



## BrumJim (18 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> He's mathematically almost there. It would require A.N.Other hoovering up all (or nearly all) of the remaining points to overhaul him. Sorry I've forgotten the exact details but someone on the telly box last night was making the point that for all practical purposes the jersey is his.


A.N.Other is Thomas de Gent, IIRC, and is therefore unlikely to hoover up the HC points on Thursday.

Checked, and it's Roglic instead


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> He's mathematically almost there. It would require A.N.Other hoovering up all (or nearly all) of the remaining points to overhaul him. Sorry I've forgotten the exact details but someone on the telly box last night was making the point that for all practical purposes the jersey is his.


Don't forget it's 40 points for Izoard


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

Mandela Day Today. Remember Mandela Day in 2015?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

BrumJim said:


> How many more points does he need? He's leading KoM by some distance now.



As @Dogtrousers says, he's _almost_ got it in the bag, but I think he'll want to grab the points anyway. Barguil doesn't strike me as the kind of rider to sit back and think 'Job done' - he said in an interview recently that he doesn't think he'll ever win the Tour, which is not because he doesn't have the talent, but because he doesn't have the patience to play the long tactical game, he'd far rather go stage-hunting. I guess he's a lot like Voeckler in that respect.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

Should prove a great stage today with the wind livening things up in the 2nd half


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Kittel already slipping off the back of the bunch. Matthews is really trying to put him in trouble.

Looks like a strong and sizeable break is forming.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Cmon Matthews !!!


----------



## Speicher (18 Jul 2017)

Does anyone know when the peleton will arrive at St. Bonnet le Froid on today's stage? Thank you


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Speicher said:


> Does anyone know when the peleton will arrive at St. Bonnet le Froid on today's stage? Thank you



Between 14:53 and 15:00 French time


----------



## Speicher (18 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Between 14:53 and 15:00 French time



Thank you, that was quick! So that is 13.42 in English time. I stayed in Saint Bonnet many years ago and have also been to other places (railway related) beween Saint Bonnet and the end of the stage. I recognised the Tower at Le Puy-en-Velay.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Between 13:53 and 14:00 UK time. Beautiful country indeed.


----------



## Speicher (18 Jul 2017)

Saint Bonnet was the large village where they showed Head Chef and lots of trainee chefs outdoors around a very large dish. 

When I stayed at that hotel, the owner was just starting up his Cookery School. 

It was a very relaxed holiday, with guided walks each day, and a very large buffet lunch was brought out to the lunch stop. The countryside was lovely for fairly gentle walks as Saint Bonnet is on a plateau. Looking at the website, I think the Hotel has changed significantly, and it now has an outdoor pool. The preserved railways (Vivarais for one), were also picturesque.


----------



## Nomadski (18 Jul 2017)

Nice for ITV to be carrying out scheduled maintenance on their internet servers during todays event.... :/


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2017)

Nomadski said:


> Nice for ITV to be carrying out scheduled maintenance on their internet servers during todays event.... :/


It could be worse, it could be stage 18.

Anyhow, Mathews and his men have played a blinder so far, let's see if they can finish it. Points race wide open, well more open, if they can.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> It could be worse, it could be stage 18.
> 
> Anyhow, Mathews and his men have played a blinder so far, let's see if they can finish it. Points race wide open, well more open, if they can.



And if same plays out on Friday


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Points race wide open, well more open, if they can.



There's a maximum of 50 points up for grabs today, which would put Matthews 29 points behind Kittel. Matthews could conceivably bag the intermediate sprint points tomorrow and Thursday as well. Friday's stage has a Cat 3 climb 30km from the finish, which he could also exploit to his advantage.

Have to assume that Kittel will win on Sunday but it could all end up being much closer than anticipated.


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> The whole thing is a bit odd though isn't it ? Nobody can have any idea how the riders of yesteryear could perform in today's conditions, and vice versa. Stage distances, drugs, nutrition, bike technology, especially weight and gear ratios, power meters, team tactics, and road surfaces all make it an impossible question.


Millar did at least nod towards that when selecting Maurice Garin, though. Actually, Garin, Anquetil... didn't Millar's team have rather a lot of cheats and big egos? It would be entertaining for sure but I suspect it could easily become a nightmare rather than a dream team!

Best of last night's features was probably this IMO - I'm surprised no-one's taken it too seriously apart from on one forum:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_savYlnBc


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

What was Millar's team selection? I missed it last night.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Sprint at 43.5km


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin gapped! Oh no!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Martin doesn't look that far behind ?

Edit: jeez 34' now


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Martin doesn't look that far behind ?



34 seconds back now and sinking fast. Meintjes is with him and they're both losing ground quickly. With the speed of the lead bunch, that's race over for both of them, I'm afraid. Contador is even further back.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Cmon Bling !!!


----------



## roadrash (18 Jul 2017)

cant understand why half the team wasn't sent back to help kittel and half stay with Dan Martin, the cross winds was expected, massive cock up by them in my oppinion


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

EBH got that?


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Big win for Bling!


----------



## roadrash (18 Jul 2017)

A good day at the office for Mathews


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Kittel is still massive favourite for Green on Betfair. Not so sure myself. Not only could Bling score some serious points over the next three days as @smutchin pointed out earlier. But Kittel could be cooked after the alps so a Champs win isn't a done deal by any stretch.


----------



## MiK1138 (18 Jul 2017)

I thought there where 70 sprint points today, but only seems to be 50


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2017)

I think it's far from a certainty Kittel will make it to Paris.


----------



## Beebo (18 Jul 2017)

MiK1138 said:


> I thought there where 70 sprint points today, but only seems to be 50


It was only 30 at the finish because it wasnt a pure sprint stage.


----------



## roadrash (18 Jul 2017)

Lets see if kittel can get over the next two days, Mathews is a better climber


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Dan Martin gapped! Oh no!


Dan! Dan! Dan! Dan! DAN!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZO6RrbqIKo


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

I'm fairly confident Kittel will get over the next two stages - he'll just stick with the grupetto and take it as easy as possible. Matthews _might_ be able to stay in contention over the early climbs and pick up enough intermediate sprint points to give him the green jersey, but then again he might prefer to keep his powder dry.

I reckon Friday's stage could actually be more problematic for Kittel - it's rated as _sans difficulté particulière_ so there are maximum sprint points on offer at the finish (50 for the winner), but there's the small matter of that Cat 3 climb just 30km from the line where you can guarantee Matthews will aim to put the hurt on him.

I wouldn't bet on anyone other than Kittel to win on Sunday though.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> cant understand why half the team wasn't sent back to help kittel and half stay with Dan Martin, the cross winds was expected, massive cock up by them in my oppinion


Did you see the Dan Martin interview at the end? Looks like some illness in the team which may have dictated tactics.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Did you see the Dan Martin interview at the end? Looks like some illness in the team which may have dictated tactics.



Ah. If that's so, I might have to revise my opinion about Kittel making it to Paris.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Ah. If that's so, I might have to revise my opinion about Kittel making it to Paris.


Phil Gil pulled out sick today


----------



## Fight.The.Power (18 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Did you see the Dan Martin interview at the end? Looks like some illness in the team which may have dictated tactics.



I thought Dan was covering for his team today and making excuses for them. IMO @roadrash hit the nail on the head earlier and it was nothing short of a cockup today.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> I thought Dan was covering for his team today actually and making excuses for them. IMO @roadrash hit the nail on the head earlier and it was nothing short of a cockup today.


I'm not sure but it wouldn't be the first time Lefevre has cocked up the tactics. Maybe a bit of both. If it's illness then it doesn't bode well for Martin coming into the alps.


----------



## Beebo (18 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Dan! Dan! Dan! Dan! DAN!
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZO6RrbqIKo



If they are going full partridge they need some travel tavern banter. Maybe come to breakfast with his 12inch plate.


----------



## roadrash (18 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> I thought Dan was covering for his team today and making excuses for them. IMO @roadrash hit the nail on the head earlier and it was nothing short of a cockup today.



Bloody hell, can you do me a favour and tell mrs roadrash that I may have been right , according to her I am never right .....ever....


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> Bloody hell, can you do me a favour and tell mrs roadrash that I may have been right , according to her I am never right .....ever....


Didn't she think they cocked it up then?


----------



## BrumJim (18 Jul 2017)

Note that Froome hasn't won a stage yet. I'm not convinced that he will, although tomorrow and Friday look very hopeful.
Stats alert: When was the last TdeF won by a rider with no stage victories?


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

Quick-Step can't afford to focus on Kittel again tomorrow - they need to look after Dan or he could fall right out of contention. Similar start to today with a long uphill drag where Kittel is likely to get dropped again. Matthews will be hoping to get in the break again and the sprint comes before they hit all the really big stuff.


----------



## suzeworld (18 Jul 2017)

Isn't Dan right out of contention already?


----------



## roadrash (18 Jul 2017)

@BrumJim Gregg lemond in 1990 , won overall with no stage wins


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2017)

My cynical head was calculating how much Lefevre would have to pay a podium finisher as opposed to a multi-stage winner. maybe he decided he couldn't afford both next season.


----------



## suzeworld (18 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> Best of last night's features was probably this IMO - I'm surprised no-one's taken it too seriously apart from on one forum:
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_savYlnBc




I thought that was really odd. Funny idea but some of script was "off" so it seemed like Millar did it but could not quite commit to the notion of the role reversal. 

Can you link me to the "other forum".


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2017)

suzeworld said:


> Isn't Dan right out of contention already?


He's still only at 2'3"


----------



## Buddfox (18 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> He's still only at 2'3"



He's got no chance. Kittel in green is their best bet now.


----------



## Bollo (18 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> He's still only at 2'3"


I'm sure he's taller than that.


----------



## Bollo (18 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> He's got no chance. Kittel in green is their best bet now.


That was Boardman's logic in the ITV post-match. Dan Martin's bolt is shot unfortunately. It'll be all hands on getting Kittel over the Alps.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (18 Jul 2017)

Wasn't there an interview, that Fuglsang gave to a radio (or TV) station, that was controversial, in some way regarding Aru??


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

I haven't seen the fuglsang interview , did you see this one with Michael Valgren....


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWktmicAB2G/


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (19 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I haven't seen the fuglsang interview , did you see this one with Michael Valgren....
> 
> 
> View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWktmicAB2G/



Thanks, I could have misheard the name, as it could have been on the Simon Mayo show, & the phone rang at one point - so essentially two conversations


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Wasn't there an interview, that Fuglsang gave to a radio (or TV) station, that was controversial, in some way regarding Aru??


I heard Ned B mention it but can't find any other reference to it.
It seems he's not a well-liked rider even by his teammates


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I heard Ned B mention it but can't find any other reference to it.
> It seems he's not a well-liked rider even by his teammates




#shocking!


----------



## Andrew_Culture (19 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I haven't seen the fuglsang interview , did you see this one with Michael Valgren....
> 
> 
> View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWktmicAB2G/




One of my favourite moments of this tour!


----------



## Winnershsaint (19 Jul 2017)

Ooops! Kittel screwed!!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Winnershsaint said:


> Ooops! Kittel screwed!!



Jeez, he should give us a chance to at least start watching before crashing... Anyway, I didn't see it. What happened? I understand Barguil and Cummings were involved as well. All back on OK? (eta: just seen a shot of Cummings at the back of the peloton with safety pins holding his shorts together!)

And Roglic, in the break, has just crashed as well.

Thomas de Gendt is in the break too. There's a surprise.

And Matthews - with 20km to the intermediate sprint, so he's in prime position for those points.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Wow! Matthews outsprinting de Gendt to steal the KOM points on Barguil's behalf. Good work!

De Gendt looks a bit miffed.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Seems like today's mission accomplished already for Bling.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Seems like today's mission accomplished already for Bling.



Still a few more kms to the intermediate sprint... 

Wonder if De Gendt will try to get revenge? No chance if it's a straight head-to-head, but he might try to get a gap...


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Jeez, he should give us a chance to at least start watching before crashing... Anyway, I didn't see it. What happened? I understand Barguil and Cummings were involved as well. All back on OK? (eta: just seen a shot of Cummings at the back of the peloton with safety pins holding his shorts together!)
> 
> touch of wheels, cummings wasn't directly involved but rolled down a grass bank trying to avoid it and went over the bars all at low speed, comical to watch really


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Matthews takes the sprint points uncontested. 

The green jersey competition is that bit more interesting without Sagan involved, even if it is for the wrong reasons.


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

kittel does look to be suffering, wonder what the cut off time will be today


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

anybody know if any penalty imposed after degenkolb grabbed Mathews just after the finish line yesterday


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

Contador and Quintana go off the front , bit late for both of them I think


----------



## Winnershsaint (19 Jul 2017)

Minute and a half for Bertie


----------



## Winnershsaint (19 Jul 2017)

Pig of a climb! Especially after the descent in the middle


----------



## hoopdriver (19 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> anybody know if any penalty imposed after degenkolb grabbed Mathews just after the finish line yesterday


No penalty..


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

I do like watching Contador ride, even though he's a bit dodgy. Not sure what he's got in his bottle cage though.


----------



## Winnershsaint (19 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I do like watching Contador ride, even though he's a bit dodgy. Not sure what he's got in his bottle cage though.


He's really at it today


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Yes, Bert animates every race he's in whether you like him or loath him


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Henao and Rowe blew up a bit quickly


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Pinot has abandoned


I'd forgotten he was there.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Have certainly had a love-hate-love view of Contador over the years but would be thrilled if he wins today.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Pinot has abandoned



Looks like his fear of descents has returned


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I do like watching Contador ride, even though he's a bit dodgy. Not sure what he's got in his bottle cage though.[/
> 
> food I think


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I do like watching Contador ride, even though he's a bit dodgy. Not sure what he's got in his bottle cage though.


Spare tube, spoke key and a ribeye


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Spare tube, spoke key and a ribeye


Well the steaks are high: about 1800m just now.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Well the steaks are high: about 1800m just now.


Boom tish!!!!


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

kittel has abandoned


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

That sucks. So many good riders out of this tour.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> kittel has abandoned



The great poof


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Abandon de Kittel! Zut alors!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Matthews will not win Green, he'll be nowhere near it.



Mystic Marmion strikes again!


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

Can I get some lottery numbers so I know which ones not to pick?


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Mystic Marmion strikes again!


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> View attachment 362997


An uncanny likeness, even down to the tam o'shanter...


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

To be honest, the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if Bouhanni ends up winning the green jersey by virtue of being the only rider left in the competition.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Just been looking at the composition of the breakaway group, the lead doesn't look like enough for them to stay away for the stage win, but Gautier and Frank are in there for AG2R - setting it up nicely for Bardet to attack on the Galibier?


----------



## Beebo (19 Jul 2017)

Contador swaps his standard bike for the one with the secret hidden motor!


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Whatever Millar says, Molard pacing Bert back is weird


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

I'm going to adopt a dolphin. I never use the bath anyway


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

56.5 to go
Gap at 3.49
5.8 Km to Summit . . . . .


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Damn those hills are high!


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

There's always a knob with a flare!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> 5.8 Km to Summit . . . . .



...of the Télégraphe. Still the Galibier to come after that - another 17km of brutal climbing!


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> ...of the Télégraphe. Still the Galibier to come after that - another 17km of brutal climbing!



That's where it's all gonna happen!


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

Getting exciting now


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

The next descent is short but it could be important!


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

AG2R starting to fall apart on the high stuff.


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Bertie taking on a gel . . . .


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Lead group hit the base of the climb. 17.7 km to summit.


----------



## BrumJim (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Mystic Marmion strikes again!


Matthews is 160 points ahead of Greipel. Looks like Green Jersey is sorted, as well as polka dot and white. Any jerseys still left to fight for?


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Bertie taking on a gel . . . .



He should try Alpecin - German engineering, no less.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Sean Kelly just said "It's a long way to the top..."

We know a song about that, don't we, children? Cue rock bagpipes...


View: https://youtu.be/-sUXMzkh-jI


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Classic.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Contador isn't doing his bit, the lazy fecker


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

I take it all back!


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Were you not watching earlier?


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Were you not watching earlier?



Rich is just a tad biased.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Cmon Dan


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Rich is just a tad biased.


against dopers?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Contador is going to pop before the summit, isn't he?


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Dan has put some space between himself and the Froome group :-)


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

come on Dan the man


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Landa on the front now - watch the gap tumble...


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

Dan being reeled in :-(


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

booo..... landa pulled him back


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

kick off time


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

Aru struggling


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

View: https://youtu.be/gXCN1DhHTZA


----------



## roadrash (19 Jul 2017)

go on dan lad


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

Yates just about back on.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Who is this 'Roderick' that Sean Kelly keeps mentioning?


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2017)

Great view of the climb on Eurosport just now.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

and he's dropping back again


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> View: https://youtu.be/gXCN1DhHTZA




One of the best music choices ever there by ITV4


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

barriers that far down.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Fantastic Racing


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

THIS IS CYCLING!!!!!


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

Aru off the back wrestling a bear


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

I would not like to ride down this.


----------



## Bonus (19 Jul 2017)

This descent is well dodgy. I've driven it and it's horrible


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

don't blink on the switchbacks


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2017)

It wouldn't just be the sound of my brakes squealing down THAT descent...


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

GC guys trying to put Aru out of it.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

It's so open but you can see how much those bends tighten as they go into them.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

Aru needs to be careful, if he pushes too hard he could come a cropper.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

some epic helicopter shots


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

Anyone know were Dan Martin is?


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

hes in a group ahead of aru


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I would not like to ride down this.



I would, just not at anything like this speed.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> hes in a group ahead of aru



Cheers, I thought that group was the Froome group as the graphics only had Aru 200m behind Froome


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

I could do this descent lovely flat wide road.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

so time bonuses for the YJ group?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> so time bonuses for the YJ group?



Standard 10,6 & 4 second bonuses for the top three on the stage. Bardet and Uran will be especially keen to catch Roglic and keep Aru distanced...

ETA: looks like they've given up chasing Roglic


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

They will try to out sprint Froome for 10 and 6 or 6 and 4 seconds I wonder if Froome will stop working for that group?


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Uran will be especially keen to win the sprint - even if Bardet crosses the line in the same group, the 6 seconds bonus would put Uran level with him on GC.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (19 Jul 2017)

Chapeau Roglic, rode it like a champ.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

Some ride by Roglic.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (19 Jul 2017)

uran 2nd, I think Froome 3rd


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2017)

Nice sprinting by Froome to increase the gap over Bardet.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2017)

Exciting bonifications sprint


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

Aru loses 31 seconds. Ouch!


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Uran will be especially keen to win the sprint - even if Bardet crosses the line in the same group, the 6 seconds bonus would put Uran level with him on GC.



...or even ahead of Bardet due to "count back".


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

Dan paid for his attack near the top of the Galibier. In hindsight he would have done better to follow Bardet's attack but he likes racing!


----------



## suzeworld (19 Jul 2017)

Poor Kittel. 
Felt proper sorry for him not able to do Paris.


----------



## SWSteve (19 Jul 2017)

Greipel has a decent chance to make his refined continue. 

Bardet isn't happy that Uran won the sprint after 'not attacking'...it's a bloody race


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2017)

The more I think about it, the more it irritates me that the Movistar management thought that Quintana could bury himself to win the Giro and still be competitive at the TDF.
Have they not watched those who have tried in recent times?
Tits.
Landa, as @smutchin pointed out, is the only one who is showing any form from the double. 
Mismanagement, hubris or over-milking the golden goose.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

BTW, has anyone got a plausible theory why Uran is quite good again? 

Is it unfairly discriminatory of me to wish ill on Aru (Werewolves of London - @Tim Hall ) because he rides a bike with less grace than me?


----------



## mjr (20 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> That was Boardman's logic in the ITV post-match. Dan Martin's bolt is shot unfortunately. It'll be all hands on getting Kittel over the Alps.


Well, that went well for them(!) 



Bonus said:


> There's always a knob with a flare!











jarlrmai said:


> Nice sprinting by Froome to increase the gap over Bardet.


More like to reduce the gain of Uran. I agree with various pundits who are predicting Uran will be much more of a TT threat.



rich p said:


> BTW, has anyone got a plausible theory why Uran is quite good again?


His contract's up for renewal. And he didn't race much in May or June - just the four day Route du Sud.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jul 2017)

Bouhanni is still riding, just in case anyone is interested. He is 15th in the points competition. Which is utterly shite. But he'll still carry on thinking he's not 3rd rate.


----------



## roadrash (20 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Bouhanni is still riding, just in case anyone is interested. He is 15th in the points competition. Which is utterly shite. But he'll still carry on thinking he's not 3rd rate.




and he will still believe its anyones fault but his own that hes shyte ,..... fekin tool


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

They (on TV) keep talking about Uran and the ITT.
This is his form in TTs and Prologues in 2017, most recent first:
95th, 34th, 89th, 33rd, 56th and 25th. If Froome is still in yellow come Saturday I don't think he'll be quaking in his boots.


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Bouhanni is still riding, just in case anyone is interested. He is 15th in the points competition. Which is utterly shite. But he'll still carry on thinking he's not 3rd rate.


They might all be OTL today and Bouhanni roars up the Izoard and takes green.


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> They (on TV) keep talking about Uran and the ITT.
> This is his form in TTs and Prologues in 2017, most recent first:
> 95th, 34th, 89th, 33rd, 56th and 25th. If Froome is still in yellow come Saturday I don't think he'll be quaking in his boots.


I was starting to get a bit confused about this as well. The way David Millar was talking about it reminded me of Bill Hicks' old routine about Saddam Hussain's Elite Republican Guard. "Froome has yet to face ........ Uran's Elite Timetrialling Abilities"


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

What was the 'Souvenir Henri Desgrange' prize that Primoz Roglic so deservedly won this year?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> They (on TV) keep talking about Uran and the ITT.
> This is his form in TTs and Prologues in 2017, most recent first:
> 95th, 34th, 89th, 33rd, 56th and 25th. If Froome is still in yellow come Saturday I don't think he'll be quaking in his boots.


The common theme is, that they all think his TT form isn't good enough but they all respect the fact that he's got the class to pull out a good TT if the stakes are high enough and he's going well, which he is.


----------



## 400bhp (20 Jul 2017)

He's got some historic excellent results, but even with the currentl form he is in, if he hasn't been practising on the TT then he will find it hard to produce a good ride.

Do we know whether he has been using his TT bike?

Anyway, it could all be academic after today's stage.


----------



## Beebo (20 Jul 2017)

Will Froome try for a late breakaway stage win today, or leave enough in the tank for the ITT, as he still hasnt won a stage this year and has not really been tested in the mountains, other than the crazy runway finish which was 20percent and well out of his comfort zone.


----------



## Dave Davenport (20 Jul 2017)

It looks like he's riding into form (later than usual to keep it going for the Vuelta?) and I wouldn't be surprised to see him going for the stage today as it will probably all come down to the final climb so the risk would be low.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> Do we know whether he has been using his TT bike?



He wasn't allowed to use his TT bike in the opening stage - it fell foul of the technical regulations, for some unexplained reason, so he had to use a spare bike, which perhaps partly explains his lacklustre performance.

Silly error to make though - no excuse for that kind of cock up. Surely a big company like Cannondale is savvy enough about the rules to provide him with a race-legal bike?

(AIUI, the current Slice is not UCI approved but the old Slice RS, which is, is still in service for pro teams. Maybe he'd made some modification that rendered it non-legal, I just don't know.)


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2017)

Uran may have previous with TTs, but it appears he isn't a fan of the slice...comments along the line of it's easy to ride but not outright fast.


----------



## hoopdriver (20 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> Will Froome try for a late breakaway stage win today, or leave enough in the tank for the ITT, as he still hasnt won a stage this year and has not really been tested in the mountains, other than the crazy runway finish which was 20percent and well out of his comfort zone.


My guess? He'll be conservative. He has the ITT as his hole card. He doesn't need to take risks or do any swashbuckling - Sky will control the stage (as best they can) knowing that if Froome has any kind of lead at all - or even a small deficit - he can almost surely ace them at the ITT on Saturday and ride into Paris in yellow. It'll be totally down to the others to unseat him, or try to.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

hoopdriver said:


> My guess? He'll be conservative. He has the ITT as his hole card. He doesn't need to take risks or do any swashbuckling



He'll want a stage win though, and today looks his best bet - he might take time out of his rivals on the TT but I don't think he'll win the stage outright. So if Landa can deliver him to the final 500m today, he'll go for it.

Bardet is also bound to try something as this is his last throw of the dice and it's worth taking chances because he could fall off the podium in the TT anyway.

Aru will also have to try something, but I think he's done and will probably lose more time today.

Uran probably knows he can't take enough time out of Froome, so will save all his efforts for the final sprint in a bid to gain a few bonus seconds.

Martin will go for it but won't succed. He said at the start of the race that he'd learnt his lessons from attacking too much last year, but since the crash he's had too much time to make up to be able to afford to ride conservatively. It's a real shame because he could have been up there with Uran otherwise. Anyway, my hunch is that he'll probably attack with 2-3km left and end up losing over a minute.

Contador played his final card yesterday. Yates is cooked. So is Meintjes. 

Barguil will want to seal the KOM competition but the question is whether he does that on the Col de Vars before the serious racing kicks off, or saves his effort to do it in style on the Izoard with the stage win. I'm guessing he won't be in contention at the finish.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> I was starting to get a bit confused about this as well. The way David Millar was talking about it reminded me of Bill Hicks' old routine about Saddam Hussain's Elite Republican Guard. "Froome has yet to face ........ Uran's Elite Timetrialling Abilities"



This makes me feel old... I had an audio cassette of a Bill Hicks stand-up show (the Flying Saucer Tour?) with that routine in it. He was great. Much missed.


View: https://youtu.be/KWdxV8JRnUQ


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Anyone watching La Course?

Annemiek Van Vleuten is looking imperious.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Anyone watching La Course?
> 
> Annamiek Van Vleuten is looking imperious.


Me and yes. Superb attack. She's a classy rider.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Lizzie resurgent!


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Van Vleuten looking laboured suddenly


----------



## roadrash (20 Jul 2017)

cracking win for van vleuten and a good ride from deignan


----------



## mjr (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Silly error to make though - no excuse for that kind of cock up. Surely a big company like Cannondale is savvy enough about the rules to provide him with a race-legal bike?
> 
> (AIUI, the current Slice is not UCI approved but the old Slice RS, which is, is still in service for pro teams. Maybe he'd made some modification that rendered it non-legal, I just don't know.)


Dave Millar had made some comment early on that Cannondale haven't retained the TT knowledge that the Garmin squad used to have. Also, if Uran doesn't like the Slice, maybe he sabotaged it to get to try the road bike in a fairly short TT?

Uran has done good ITTs but not yet for Cannondale... it's an unknown that will probably make everyone nervous, including Uran.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Interestingly, la Course is employing the very idea that @MikeG came out with about a pursuit with riders setting off with the gaps they gained today. Not everyone though, only the first 21 to cross the line.

In her interview at the end, Deignan mentioned that she might set off and wait for Megan Guarnier and then pursue Van Vleuten together. So exactly the criticisms of the idea we came out with were mentioned straight away. Personally I think it's a dog's dinner of an idea and everyone will bunch and ride together, however, let's see what happens.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/07/19/lizzie-deignan-feels-unsure-la-course-format/


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I suggested in another thread that once or twice during the tour there are pursuit days, where the riders get set off at their over-all time. So the leader would go first, followed, at the moment, by Aru 18 seconds later, Bardet 33 seconds after him, and so on.



This is the format they're using for the second stage of La Course - a 22km TT/pursuit.

One obvious flaw is that the race has to be kept very short in order for the time gaps to be meaningful, which means that by the time the later riders start, the race will already be pretty much all over.

A longer format would end up effectively becoming a one-day bunch race.

ETA: @Crackle posted while I was typing this.


----------



## Shadow (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> What was the 'Souvenir Henri Desgrange' prize that Primoz Roglic so deservedly won this year?


Am surprised the more knowledgeable have not answered this!

Agreed he deservedly won it - a pile of €€€€s and a pile of (Izoard) rocks on a plinth?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> In her interview at the end, Deignan mentioned that she might set off and wait for Megan Guarnier and then pursue Van Vleuten together.



She also seemed very blasé - dismissive, even - about the second stage. She certainly didn't seem impressed or excited at the prospect. Nor was it a consideration in her tactical thinking today - she was going for the stage win regardless.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> What was the 'Souvenir Henri Desgrange' prize that Primoz Roglic so deservedly won this year?





Shadow said:


> Am surprised the more knowledgeable have not answered this!



I missed @brommers post. It's the prize for being first rider to cross the highest point in the Tour - equivalent to the Giro's Cima Coppi. This year, as in so many other years, it was the Galibier, at 2642m.

I'm not sure if any of the other climbs they regularly use in the Tour are higher. The Col de l'Iseran is 2770m but they don't go there so often.

For comparison, the summit of the Izoard is 400m lower in altitude at 2360m.


----------



## MacB (20 Jul 2017)

Ok, something I've been puzzling over since yesterday, who is prettier, Happy Marcel or Sad Marcel. It seems such a short time since the radiant beauty of his winners face was lighting up my screen. But those eyes when it all went wrong, if they didn't move you then you're also capable of clubbing baby seals.

What think you all?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Seal clubber here


----------



## mjr (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Seal clubber here


+1


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I missed @brommers post. It's the prize for being first rider to cross the highest point in the Tour - equivalent to the Giro's Cima Coppi. This year, as in so many other years, it was the Galibier, at 2642m.
> 
> I'm not sure if any of the other climbs they regularly use in the Tour are higher. The Col de l'Iseran is 2770m but they don't go there so often.
> 
> For comparison, the summit of the Izoard is 400m lower in altitude at 2360m.


I know he won $5000, but what was the 'souvenir' prize?


----------



## Shadow (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> I know he won $5000, but what was the 'souvenir' prize?


It is called the '_Souvenir_ Henri Desgrange' after the Tour's founder. But I'm sure you knew that. '_Souvenir_' means to remember _en français_.


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

But wasn't there a physical memento? - something you can put on your mantelpiece, like a years supply of Salmon?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

'Souvenir' in this case is more accurately translated into English as 'memorial', as in the 'Henri Desgrange memorial'.

There's a physical monument to Henri Desgrange at the top of the Tourmalet, which was the first high mountain pass to feature in the Tour, back in 1910.

I don't think you get many salmon at that altitude.

(As an aside, _souvenir_ is what my French professor Philip Thody would have called a _faux ami_ - indeed, he wrote a whole book on this subject, co-authored with another of my tutors at Leeds, Dr Howard Evans.)


----------



## roadrash (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> She also seemed very blasé - dismissive, even - about the second stage. She certainly didn't seem impressed or excited at the prospect. Nor was it a consideration in her tactical thinking today - she was going for the stage win regardless.



so blaze in fact, the she referred to it as ... oh yeah, that "thing" on Saturday


----------



## andrew_s (20 Jul 2017)

Souvenir Henri Desgrange in English is Henry Desgrange Memorial prize

It's awarded at the Galibier so often that they put his monument there, on the Lauteret side on the first bend after coming out of the tunnel.

[edit]
The race prize was first awarded in 1947; the monument was put up in 1949


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I don't think you get many salmon at that altitude


That was supposed to be a feeble reference to one of the Norwegian races


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

andrew_s said:


> It's awarded at the Galibier so often that they put his monument there, on the Lauteret side on the first bend after coming out of the tunnel.



Of course, you're right. I was getting confused with the Jacques Goddet monument, which _is_ on the Tourmalet. The Jacques Goddet prize is usually specifically for the Tourmalet and wasn't awarded this year.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> That was supposed to be a feeble reference to one of the Norwegian races



Yeah, I was trying to counter your feeble joke with an equally feeble one of my own.


----------



## andrew_s (20 Jul 2017)

Interestingly, the tour used the tunnel until 1976 (when it was closed due to disrepair), which will be why the Desgranges memorial isn't at the top.
http://www.cycling-challenge.com/col-du-galibier-a-brief-history/


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Apparently, Pierre Rolland is in the Tour this year. Who knew?


----------



## MacB (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Apparently, Pierre Rolland is in the Tour this year. Who knew?



I'd missed that I thought his brother 'Pierre Rolland Out The Back' was the one riding this year.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Of course, you're right. I was getting confused with the Jacques Goddet monument, which _is_ on the Tourmalet. The Jacques Goddet prize is usually specifically for the Tourmalet and wasn't awarded this year.



Isn't the Jacques Goddet the prize for the best written piece of the tour, written in French?


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

De Gendt is some kind of automaton. If he had a race brain he'd be a contender.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Isn't the Jacques Goddet the prize for the best written piece of the tour, written in French?



I don't know about that one. Sounds plausible though.

This is the one I was thinking of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souvenir_Jacques_Goddet


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> Ok, something I've been puzzling over since yesterday, who is prettier, Happy Marcel or Sad Marcel. It seems such a short time since the radiant beauty of his winners face was lighting up my screen. But those eyes when it all went wrong, if they didn't move you then you're also capable of clubbing baby seals.
> 
> What think you all?


I'm more a Puzzled Greipel man myself.


----------



## Dayvo (20 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> But wasn't there a physical memento? - something you can put on your mantelpiece, like a years supply of Salmon?



A year's worth? Surely it'd go off. And he'd need a bloody big mantelpiece.


----------



## Andy_R (20 Jul 2017)

Froome acting as dinner lady....class!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

AG2R are building up the tension


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2017)

Froome so phased by AG2R riding off the front that handed out the sarnies for a nice mountain top picnic.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

I wonder if Lutsenko and Aru are mates


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2017)

This tailwind is limiting team advantage


----------



## Fight.The.Power (20 Jul 2017)

Allez AG2R


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2017)

Bardet isolated


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

It's all kicking off


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

Aru struggling


----------



## Fight.The.Power (20 Jul 2017)

Punch it Dan !


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

French Gendarmes don't mess about!


----------



## Fight.The.Power (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> French Gendarmes don't mess about!



Missed it ! Damn !


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> French Gendarmes don't mess about!


Just beat me to it, a bit like the beating that Colombian fan just recieved.


----------



## Bonus (20 Jul 2017)

Pushed a guy into the ditch :-)


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

1.27 and 4.2 km for atapuma


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

Landa goes


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

Kwiatkowski just had to stop after that pull!


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

Bardet needs to go


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

I'm not sure Bardet can go


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

He's going


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2017)

I wish now I'd posted my prediction of Sky letting Landa go for it. When will Uran go.


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

Froome bridging to Landa?


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

Vroooome


----------



## Fight.The.Power (20 Jul 2017)

Game Over Man. Game over.


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2017)

Froome opens up on that descent


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Boome Froome!


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Uran is looking ominously good


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Uran is looking ominously good


What are his time trials like?


----------



## andrew_s (20 Jul 2017)

Barguil and Atapuma at the red flag,
the 4 usual suspects 24 sec back


----------



## Viking (20 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> What are his time trials like?


Variable


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Martin took 45 seconds or so out of Aru


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> What are his time trials like?


30th, 50th but he's a classy rider who on his day could do more.


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2017)

No real pressure on Froome after all that.


----------



## Viking (20 Jul 2017)

Bit of a block by Bardet. I doubt the jury will do anything but you never know with this set.


----------



## Dayvo (20 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Bit of a block by Bardet. I doubt the jury will do anything but you never know with this set.



He's French in his own backyard, and I assume the jury isn't too 'international' either.


----------



## Viking (20 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> He's French in his own backyard, and I assume the jury isn't too 'international' either.


It wasn't a serious suggestion but in any case I think the head of the jury is Belgian


----------



## Bollo (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> 30th, 50th but he's a classy rider who on his day could do more.


For the avoidance of doubt, I was taking the pish. See @brommers et al, page 130.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> What are his time trials like?



I've heard some rumours...


----------



## gavroche (20 Jul 2017)

We have two contenders for the GC next year now: Barguil and Bardet. They are both much younger than Froome and still getting stronger. Froome is reaching his peak for his age. The TdF 2018 could be ours at last. I will keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## Dayvo (20 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> It wasn't a serious suggestion but in any case I think the head of the jury is Belgian



French -Belgian, I s'pose. 

No, my answer wasn't too serious, either, just wanted to underline a lack of impartiality with regard to French 'rules and fairness.'


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> We have two contenders for the GC next year now: Barguil and Bardet. They are both much younger than Froome and still getting stronger. Froome is reaching is peak for his age. The TdF 2018 could be ours at last. I will keep my fingers crossed.



Barguil has already said he doesn't think he can win it - he doesn't have the patience to play the long game, he'd rather be the new Tommy Voeckler. But that might just be a confidence thing - the crash last year seemed to put a massive dent in his self-belief, but he appears to be over that now.

Bardet will need to seriously up his time-trialling game if he doesn't want to end up being the new Poulidor (to Froome's Anquetil?).

It's a real shame Alaphilippe wasn't at this year's Tour, but he could be a real contender one day too.

Pinot could have been in with a real shout at the Tour as well if he hadn't done the Giro. His perennial problem is the same as Richie Porte - always has one bad day that scuppers his chances.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> The bellyaching about imagined pro-French decisions on here continues ...



There was never a two-second gap between Uran and Froome on the line. It's all a dastardly plot, I tells ya!


----------



## PpPete (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Barguil has already said he doesn't think he can win it - he doesn't have the patience to play the long game, he'd rather be the new Tommy Voeckler. But that might just be a confidence thing - the crash last year seemed to put a massive dent in his self-belief, but he appears to be over that now.
> 
> Bardet will need to seriously up his time-trialling game if he doesn't want to end up being the new Poulidor (to Froome's Anquetil?).
> 
> ...


With so many 'possibles' it would be nice to have another French winner, but they need to get in sharpish.before the Yates' mature enough to re-assert the dominance of the superior nation.


----------



## Crackle (20 Jul 2017)

So how do the women stack up against the men...


----------



## themosquitoking (20 Jul 2017)

I hate these people, i couldn't even do two box hills in those times.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2017)

Seen as 2 teams have taken 9 stages at this year's Tour, you would assume there will be a breakaway-royale tomorrow which will go to the line. Potentially one for those who were successful in spring to also get a stage here for their team


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2017)

Chavez's drop in form has been claimed to be due in part to the passing of his physiotherapist with whom he was close.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> you would assume there will be a breakaway-royale tomorrow



I'm banking on it for the punditry. I'd put my mortgage on Thomas de Gendt being involved but that aside, it's a total stab in the dark as to who will be in contention for the stage win. I wrote a shortlist of around a dozen names and then picked three of them more or less at random.


----------



## Beebo (20 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> There was never a two-second gap between Uran and Froome on the line. It's all a dastardly plot, I tells ya!


Having watched it again it does seem a bit harsh.


----------



## Poacher (20 Jul 2017)

Slightly off-topic, while idly following yesterday's route in my Philip's road atlas, I noticed a *Cascade de la Pisse *about 8km E of the Col d'Ornon.
Then another, about 10km NE of the first, just by the side of the N91. 
Today, another, about 8km W of St. Clement sur Durance, and yet another, 10km E of Guillestre, and damn me, another 20km E of Valbonnais.
From personal observation, as well as Zappa's "In France", I'm well aware that the perfidious froggies pee in the street, but why oh why do they feel the need to name waterfalls in this disgusting way? 

PS there's also a Cascade du Pissou 8km WNW of the Col du Glandon, a Cascade de la Pissoire 16km N of Saillans, and praise be, a Cascade de la Lavey just S of St. Christophe-en-Oisans.


----------



## Beebo (20 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> So how do the women stack up against the men...



Very impressive but not comparing apples with apples as the women's race was considerably shorter than the men's. And the men are 2 and half weeks into the tour


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jul 2017)

And women are thinking about fluffy animals all the time. Not fair.


----------



## Southside Mike (21 Jul 2017)

The thing that keeps occurring to me is -

If Froome had a problem on Saturday, a punture for instance and ended up just a few seconds behind say, Uran

Would Sky attack on Sunday?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (21 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I'm banking on it for the punditry. I'd put my mortgage on Thomas de Gendt being involved but that aside, it's a total stab in the dark as to who will be in contention for the stage win. I wrote a shortlist of around a dozen names and then picked three of them more or less at random.


last chance for ticket puncher Cummings today


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

Southside Mike said:


> The thing that keeps occurring to me is -
> 
> If Froome had a problem on Saturday, a punture for instance and ended up just a few seconds behind say, Uran
> 
> Would Sky attack on Sunday?


From what I understand, if there is only a few seconds between the GC men there will be a 'race' on Sunday


----------



## Southside Mike (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> From what I understand, if there is only a few seconds between the GC men there will be a 'race' on Sunday



Good to hear. Almost want it to happen tbh. I doubt the other teams could dent Sky if Froome is in the lead but if he was behind, those last laps could be very exciting.


----------



## perplexed (21 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Barguil has already said he doesn't think he can win it - he doesn't have the patience to play the long game, he'd rather be the new Tommy Voeckler. But that might just be a confidence thing - the crash last year seemed to put a massive dent in his self-belief, but he appears to be over that now.
> 
> *Bardet will need to seriously up his time-trialling game if he doesn't want to end up being the new Poulidor (to Froome's Anquetil?).*
> 
> ...



Time trialling to mysteriously disappear from the next couple of Tours?


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> Time trialling to mysteriously disappear from the next couple of Tours?


They'll probably have a prologue and a TTT


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2017)

I missed this article comparing DaveB to Nigel Farage earlier in the tour https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jul/05/dave-brailsford-team-sky-bumptious-cycling

I'm surprised the graunuad hasn't been banned from Team Skit interviews too.


----------



## BrumJim (21 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Seen as 2 teams have taken 9 stages at this year's Tour, you would assume there will be a breakaway-royale tomorrow which will go to the line. Potentially one for those who were successful in spring to also get a stage here for their team



With no contest for the green jersey, it's got to be a day for the breakaway.


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> There was never a two-second gap between Uran and Froome on the line. It's all a dastardly plot, I tells ya!


I really hope you just forgot the sarcasm mark or winkie.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Just watching the last few kms from yesterday and heard Kirby say, "Uran is going past Bardet, saying stitch that, sew yourself something and blow your nose on it"
WTAF!


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

Yep, channel 4 for the win. And they've had Barry Hoban on and Pippa Middleton.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> I really hope you just forgot the sarcasm mark or winkie.



I'm going to leave you guessing on that.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Yep, channel 4 for the win. And they've had Barry Hoban on and Pippa Middleton.


WTF does the Duchess of Cambridge's sister know?


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> WTF does the Duchess of Cambridge's sister know?


More than you?


----------



## MacB (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> WTF does the Duchess of Cambridge's sister know?



I hope you bowed/curtsied before typing that


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Imagine how strong Team Sky would have been with Geraint (and Poels instead of the very disappointing Henao).
Idly musing about the Vuelta, who's going to win that one?

No Valverde, no Quintana, no Thomas, Contador a busted flush, no Landa...
Probably Froome's best shot this year, or an outsider like Gesink, Kruijswijk?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> I hope you bowed/curtsied before typing that


I'm on my knees just replying to you Mac...


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Is Nibali doing it?


----------



## Dave Davenport (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Imagine how strong Team Sky would have been with Geraint (and Poels instead of the very disappointing Henao).
> Idly musing about the Vuelta, who's going to win that one?
> 
> No Valverde, no Quintana, no Thomas, Contador a busted flush, no Landa...
> Probably Froome's best shot this year, or an outsider like Gesink, Kruijswijk?



42km flat TT, you'd have to make Froome the favourite (assuming he's riding).


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Imagine how strong Team Sky would have been with Geraint (and Poels instead of the very disappointing Henao).
> Idly musing about the Vuelta, who's going to win that one?
> 
> No Valverde, no Quintana, no Thomas, Contador a busted flush, no Landa...
> Probably Froome's best shot this year, or an outsider like Gesink, Kruijswijk?


I'm sure Porte's going to be interested, enthusiastic puppy that he is. Maijka, Valverde, That skinny Russian bloke who crashes a lot, The Dutch coathanger shoulders bloke and a few others. I think it'll be a strong Vuelta but probably won by someone we've only just heard of.


----------



## BrumJim (21 Jul 2017)

So 222km mostly flat, particularly in the second half just before the deciding TT. I predict a huge breakaway, and the yellow jersey group only just making the time cut.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> That skinny Russian bloke who crashes a lot



Got to be one of the favourites, definitely, if only by virtue of not having done the Tour.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'm sure Porte's going to be interested, enthusiastic puppy that he is. Maijka, Valverde, That skinny Russian bloke who crashes a lot, The Dutch coathanger shoulders bloke and a few others. I think it'll be a strong Vuelta but probably won by someone we've only just heard of.


Will Porte be recovered; Valverde won't.
You mean Ilnur Aspartame?


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Anyway, I'll start a Vuelta thread as we've already got a Giro 2018 Spoiler thread!


----------



## Adam4868 (21 Jul 2017)

Been watching on TV here in Brittany,good watching in ignorance,just about understand Cristofer Froome ! General consensus in the bar(where else ?) Is team sky are far too strong a team...but last two stages have been fantastic too watch.Favourite moment of yesterday was Kwiatowskis track stand ! Him and Landa have rode a blinder this tour.Right of to the pool x


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Will Porte be recovered; Valverde won't.
> You mean Ilnur Aspartame?


Yes him. My Name memory has deserted me today. I didn''t realize Valverde had bust his knee, so no, he won't be in but Porte still might, depends how well his recovery goes.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Yes him. My Name memory has deserted me today.



It's Crackle...
...HTH


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Imagine how strong Team Sky would have been with Geraint (and Poels instead of the very disappointing Henao).


You could throw Stannard into the equation as well


----------



## MacB (21 Jul 2017)

Interesting interview, would seem that government and lottery funding have become interchangeable terms. Also the guy is trying very hard not to be too elitist...this money is for the benefit of millions of people/the whole country etc, etc.


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Idly musing about the Vuelta, who's going to win that one?
> 
> No Valverde, no Quintana, no Thomas, Contador a busted flush, no Landa...
> Probably Froome's best shot this year, or an outsider like Gesink, Kruijswijk?


You can probably take this Vuelta provisional with a pinch of salt
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=171127&c=3


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> You could throw Stannard into the equation as well



Not to mention Rosa - another rider who could be a GC contender in his own right.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> Interesting interview, would seem that government and lottery funding have become interchangeable terms. Also the guy is trying very hard not to be too elitist...this money is for the benefit of millions of people/the whole country etc, etc.


I beg your pardon?


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

BrumJim said:


> So 222km mostly flat, particularly in the second half just before the deciding TT. I predict a huge breakaway, and the yellow jersey group only just making the time cut.


Where's the mostly flat bits?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Where's the mostly flat bits?



I love the fact that the final climb of the race this year is called "Pointy Pass".


----------



## MacB (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I beg your pardon?



ITV4 interview from London with BC bigwig and subject of funding and current shenanigans was broached.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

Specially for @Marmion, the Cycling Podcast did an interview with Thierry Gouvenou, who designed this year's Tour, in which he justifies his route choices:
https://audioboom.com/posts/6124097-kilometre-0-the-route-master

Also has some interesting thoughts about dangerous descents.


----------



## MacB (21 Jul 2017)

Things I've learned today:-

Eddy Merckx is still alive


----------



## BrumJim (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Where's the mostly flat bits?
> View attachment 363272


OK, only flat compared with yesterday.


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

I can't even bother watching today - nothing's happened since 1st 10km


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

I fear Keukeleire has shot his bolt rather early. The one rider in my punditry selection who deigned to make the effort to get in the break, and he's throwing his chances away 60km from the finish, damn him.

Ned & Dave reckon he's doing it to set up Albasini for the finish. I had Albasini on my shortlist of possible picks but decided against - he's one of those riders who seems fated never to win a grand tour stage despite often being fancied. If he proves me wrong today, I'll be somewhat miffed. (ETA: except, as Ned and Dave just pointed out, he did once win a stage of the Vuelta.)


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

Ned & Dave are now discussing Ben Swift. Another rider I had on my shortlist of punditry picks today, as if anyone is even remotely interested. Would love to see him win - he's one of the good guys in my book, and a big result is long overdue for him.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2017)

Swift or EBH the fans can't lose here.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Millar is over-reading this 
Albasini and Keukelaire will both be bolloxed at this rate


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> Swift or EBH the fans can't lose here.



Swifty missed the split, unfortunately.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Far canal...

and a near canal...


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

FFS Millar!
He says that the Fortuneo rider should soft pedal at the back and in the next breath says that he is right to attack from 8km out!!!


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> FFS Millar!
> He says that the Fortuneo rider should soft pedal at the back and in the next breath says that he is right to attack from 8km out!!!



Never expect coherent thinking from Millar post-lunch.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2017)

It's Millar time.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

What is EBH doing ??


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Wow roundabout luck


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

Arndt and EBH win the lottery!


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2017)

2 roundabouts were mentioned in the parcour description, so it's good research.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> What is EBH doing ??



Winning?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Well very pleased that he got his win. But why on earth you would attack a group when you're the fastest sprinter is beyond me.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Well done EBH!!!!


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

Chapeau, Eddy, well deserved.


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Heia Edvald! Fy faen!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2017)

Time for a cup of tea before the GC boys get to the finish.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Wonder if the World Champs parcours suits EBH in Norway in September?


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Wonder if the World Champs parcours suits EBH in Norway in September?



It'll be raining, that's for sure.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> It'll be raining, that's for sure.



Haha


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> It'll be raining, that's for sure.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> View attachment 363310



Jeez 

So what's that an average of 1cm of rain a day !!


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Jeez



Makes Manchester look like the Sahara Desert.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Dayvo said:


> Makes Manchester look like the Sahara Desert.



Just hope there are no descents or corners. Lol


----------



## Beebo (21 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Well very pleased that he got his win. But why on earth you would attack a group when you're the fastest sprinter is beyond me.


He didnt attack, he got lucky with that roundabout, and found himself with a 30m lead and just put him head down.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> He didnt attack, he got lucky with that roundabout, and found himself with a 30m lead and just put him head down.



I was referring to when he attacked before the roundabout . . .

He was absolutely right to punch it after the roundabout.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> He didnt attack, he got lucky with that roundabout, and found himself with a 30m lead and just put him head down.


He made a futile attack 1km earlier.

Arndt and EBH took the right hand carriageway before the roundabout which may or may not have been planned


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

I'm pleased for Eddy, he fully deserved that and if it was lucky on the rdbt, well, sometimes you gets the luck.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (21 Jul 2017)

Ah feel for Swift. He's well dissapointed. Nice to hear a Yorkshire accent all the same


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Ah feel for Swift. He's well dissapointed. Nice to hear a Yorkshire accent all the same



Yeah, winning or whingeing, it's all the same!


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2017)

Uncovered parcours...


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2017)

Not knowing all the nuances, can anyone tell me why the Peloton came home in a procession? after all it's not Paris yet.


----------



## DCLane (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Not knowing all the nuances, can anyone tell me why the Peloton came home in a procession? after all it's not Paris yet.



If Bardet was _really_ interested in gaining time couldn't AG2R have gone on the front for the last 10/20k then done a team TT leaving a slower rider there to create a gap just to try and bridge the time difference. Sky could've chased along with Cannondale but otherwise for most it's a processional 3 days.

It'd have at least been interesting.


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2017)

There's no way AG2R could have ridden away from Sky, Quickstep and Cannondale.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Not knowing all the nuances, can anyone tell me why the Peloton came home in a procession? after all it's not Paris yet.



A few guesses based on what I observed from watching today's stage:
1. Green jersey and KOM are already decided so there was nothing to fight for there.
2. GC battle was effectively neutralised ahead of the TT tomorrow.
3. Also the TT specialists will have been treating it as an unofficial rest day ahead of their chance at a stage win.
4. Plus the racing in the first hour was so insanely frenetic that once the break had formed, everyone else just wanted to take their foot off the gas for the rest of the stage.
5. Besides which they must all be pretty knackered by now, at the end of three weeks racing, especially after the last two very tough days.
6. Also it was very hot and humid out there today.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> There's no way AG2R could have ridden away from Sky, Quickstep and Cannondale.



Agreed. Sounds like the kind of move that could easily backfire spectacularly too.


----------



## MacB (21 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> There's no way AG2R could have ridden away from Sky, Quickstep and Cannondale.



They can never be allowed to win because of the hideous team kit


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> A few guesses based on what I observed from watching today's stage:
> 1. Green jersey and KOM are already decided so there was nothing to fight for there.
> 2. GC battle was effectively neutralised ahead of the TT tomorrow.
> 3. Also the TT specialists will have been treating it as an unofficial rest day ahead of their chance at a stage win.
> ...



Good analysis.


----------



## LarryDuff (21 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> They can never be allowed to win because of the hideous team kit


I quite like it.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> They can never be allowed to win because of the hideous team kit



Is that why Footon-Servetto never won anything?


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

Eddy knew the way around the rdbt it seems and had no intention of waiting for the sprint.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...sson-hagen-take-victory-in-salon-de-provence/


----------



## Dayvo (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Eddy knew the way around the rdbt it seems and had no intention of waiting for the sprint.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...sson-hagen-take-victory-in-salon-de-provence/



A 'magic' bit of riding.


----------



## Bollo (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Eddy knew the way around the rdbt it seems and had no intention of waiting for the sprint.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...sson-hagen-take-victory-in-salon-de-provence/


What I enjoyed about that was David Millar was deep into his tactics voodoo when they hit the roundabout.


----------



## themosquitoking (21 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Eddy knew the way around the rdbt it seems and had no intention of waiting for the sprint.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...sson-hagen-take-victory-in-salon-de-provence/


It looked to me though that he was happy to stay in the line until he saw Arndt go the other way and he followed.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

My guess is that they did all check out the finish in advance but in the heat of the moment most of them just followed the moto without thinking.


----------



## lyn1 (21 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> He didnt attack, he got lucky with that roundabout, and found himself with a 30m lead and just put him head down.



No, luck had nothing to do with the choice of direction.....DDD employ a guy to video key sections of the run in. This is then played on a tv screen in the bus, by the DS before the stage and a strategy developed.. The team knew the right side was significantly quicker which is why Eddy went that way.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2017)

lyn1 said:


> DDD employ a guy to video key sections of the run in.



I was reading an old interview with Cav the other day in which he talked about him and Renshaw, back in their HTC days, spending the evening before a sprint stage checking out the final kms on Street View, before any of their rivals even knew about Street View.


----------



## lyn1 (21 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I was reading an old interview with Cav the other day in which he talked about him and Renshaw, back in their HTC days, spending the evening before a sprint stage checking out the final kms on Street View, before any of their rivals even knew about Street View.



Yes, if it is available, find it and use it, if not go get it.

Loads of these DDD clips on you tube


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcPS_CWP2cc


----------



## Bollo (21 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Pah! I do that for audaxes.


If anyone's got any tips for getting red wine, cherios and shame out of a keyboard...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I was reading an old interview with Cav the other day in which he talked about him and Renshaw, back in their HTC days, spending the evening before a sprint stage checking out the final kms on Street View, before any of their rivals even knew about Street View.



Absolutely. I used to do the exact same thing when I used to stack pretty hefty wagers on the Tour. But this was not a sprint finish. If EBH did revise the finish then credit to him, my gut tells me he was lucky. If he knew the roundabout trick then why the hell would he have attacked like a noob 1km before the roundabout ?

EDIT: When I say not a sprint Finish I mean not a flat stage.


----------



## perplexed (22 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> They can never be allowed to win because of the hideous team kit



AG2R have the best kit - love it!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Anybody really believe that Uran Uran can topple Froome Froome today?


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Absolutely. I used to do the exact same thing when I used to stack pretty hefty wagers on the Tour. But this was not a sprint finish. If EBH did revise the finish then credit to him, my gut tells me he was lucky. If he knew the roundabout trick then why the hell would he have attacked like a noob 1km before the roundabout ?


It wasn't a sprint finish with the man fast men involved, but t could have been and EBH would have been one of the main contenders in that scenario


----------



## MikeG (22 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> ..........If he knew the roundabout trick then why the hell would he have attacked like a noob 1km before the roundabout ?.........



He's not to know that everyone else doesn't know the "roundabout trick". If everyone knows it, it isn't a trick.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (22 Jul 2017)

Would love it if Steve Cummings won today.


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Would love it if Steve Cummings won today.


He saved energy by not getting in the break yesterday


----------



## MikeG (22 Jul 2017)

Does anyone know when the TdF was last continuous/ contiguous? In other words, when was the last Tour which didn't involve bus trips and plane flights, but simply guys on their bikes setting off from where they stopped the night before?


----------



## MikeG (22 Jul 2017)

Thanks.


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Anybody really believe that Uran Uran can topple Froome Froome today?


I reckon Froome will end up with a one to two minute winning margin on GC, it would only take a spill or mechanical in the TT to make things pretty tight though.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Pah! I do that for audaxes.



So do I!


----------



## Dayvo (22 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> I reckon Froome will end up with a one to two minute winning margin on GC, it would only take a spill or mechanical in the TT to make things pretty tight though.



Maybe the 'French Resistance' have got something lined up for Froome.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

In his post race interview yesterday, Froome said that he wouldn't be taking any chances today, and will only aim to do enough to secure the yellow rather than try to win the stage. 

Could be bluffing, of course.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> In his post race interview yesterday, Froome said that he wouldn't be taking any chances today, and will only aim to do enough to secure the yellow rather than try to win the stage.
> 
> Could be bluffing, of course.


I think he'd secretly like a stage win.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

The finish stadium could be a great end, if it is full, or like watching Queen's Park playing at an empty Hampden....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I think he'd secretly like a stage win.


How can he be winning if he hasn't won a stage!!!???


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

47 thousand seats booked apparently (no charge and there's still 20 thousand available if you hurry).


----------



## Fight.The.Power (22 Jul 2017)

https://t.co/y8YaV5TY0V


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> How can he be winning if he hasn't won a stage!!!???


It's one of life's eternal mysteries


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I think he'd secretly like a stage win.



Yes, I'm sure he'd love a stage win but he also said that he'd like not to crash...

Maybe if Uran does The Time Trial Of His Life, it could force Froome to really go for it.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> How can he be winning if he hasn't won a stage!!!???



I've explained to my colleague several times why Cav will never win overall despite winning lots of stages but it seems to be beyond his powers of reasoning.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I've explained to my colleague several times why Cav will never win overall despite winning lots of stages but it seems to be beyond his powers of reasoning.


What about Sagan tho, he could have won this year could he not? If he'd not been DQed.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What about Sagan tho, he could have won this year could he not?



It's a slightly more plausible idea than Cav winning, I'll give you that.


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What about Sagan tho, he could have won this year could he not? If he'd not been DQed.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Here's an old interview with Uran from 2012.

http://www.alpsandes.com/posts/clin...6/choosing-to-forego-revenge-and-looking.html

I'm rooting for him now.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Here's an old interview with Uran from 2012.
> 
> http://www.alpsandes.com/posts/clin...6/choosing-to-forego-revenge-and-looking.html
> 
> I'm rooting for him now.


Me too. What an impressive guy.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Me too. What an impressive guy.


I'm sure Monkey told us he was one of the Colombian middle classes and not a true Colombian like Quintana.


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> What about Sagan tho, he could have won this year could he not? If he'd not been DQed.


Won what?


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'm sure Monkey told us he was one of the Colombian middle classes and not a true Colombian like Quintana.


He did and I actually told that to someone on a ride today. I shall now have to apologise and set them straight.
Deep knowledge of the peloton, my arse....


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

So exactly what we thought in the womens event is happening. They are all waiting for each other to form a chase group


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> So exactly what we thought in the womens event is happening. They are all waiting for each other to form a chase group


Flawed format?


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Flawed format?


The rear groups aren't even chasing, fekkin pathetic and pointless.


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2017)

It's nice to see France Television letting the work experience Saturday kids have a go at doing the captions, but it's a bit disrespectful to the women racers.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Flawed format?


Surely not.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Surely not.


You're aware of my depth of knowledge of women's cycling?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> You're aware of my depth of knowledge of women's cycling?


Deeper than the twonk who came up with this format


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Van Vleuten is going to take this.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Still, the scenery is lovely


----------



## Fight.The.Power (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Still, the scenery is lovely



Yes, as someone who has never been to Marseille I was always given the impression it was something of a dump. But so far looks absolutely tranquil.


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> So is this a bold step forward for women's cycling, or an insulting sop thrown in to take up some spare time?


Yep. 

ASO should stop faffing around with sideshows of the men's races, get their backsides in gear and help resurrect at least one of the French stage races. They could probably bundle it with the TV package for the tour, like they do with LBL and the Dauphine. (Itv4 do actually show LBL highlights but they don't really want them because they've no other races until May, so it's been shown a week late at a silly time the last few years.)


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

22k not long enough for group advantage to show.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

that little climb is a steep one on a TT bike


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> 22k not long enough for group advantage to show.


Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Van Vleuten is going to take this.


So much easier to predict results half way through a 22km stage...


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2017)

1 Luke Rowe (GBr) Team Sky 13:50:00
2 Thomas Leezer (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 13:51:00
3 Rüdiger Selig (Ger) Bora-Hansgrohe 13:52:00
4 Robert Wagner (Ger) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 13:53:00
5 Taylor Phinney (USA) Cannondale-Drapac 13:54:00
6 Borut Bozic (Slo) Bahrain-Merida 13:55:00
7 Dimitri Claeys (Bel) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 13:56:00
8 Florian Senechal (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 13:57:00
9 Olivier Le Gac (Fra) FDJ 13:58:00
10 Albert Timmer (Ned) Team Sunweb 13:59:00
11 Dylan Groenewegen (Ned) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 14:00:00
12 Jaco Venter (RSA) Dimension Data 14:01:00
13 Marco Haller (Aut) Katusha-Alpecin 14:02:00
14 Fabio Sabatini (Ita) Quick-Step Floors 14:03:00
15 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Dimension Data 14:04:00
16 Davide Cimolai (Ita) FDJ 14:05:00
17 Reto Hollenstein (Sui) Katusha-Alpecin 14:06:00
18 Mathew Hayman (Aus) Orica-Scott 14:07:00
19 André Greipel (Ger) Lotto Soudal 14:08:00
20 Ramon Sinkeldam (Ned) Team Sunweb 14:09:00
21 Guillaume Van Keirsbulck (Bel) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:10:00
22 Michael Gogl (Aut) Trek-Segafredo 14:11:00
23 Grega Bole (Slo) Bahrain-Merida 14:12:00
24 Christian Knees (Ger) Team Sky 14:13:00
25 Rick Zabel (Ger) Katusha-Alpecin 14:14:00
26 Julien Vermote (Bel) Quick-Step Floors 14:15:00
27 Thomas Boudat (Fra) Direct Energie 14:16:00
28 Roy Curvers (Ned) Team Sunweb 14:17:00
29 Andrea Pasqualon (Ita) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:18:00
30 Nacer Bouhanni (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 14:19:00
31 Stephen Cummings (GBr) Dimension Data 14:20:00
32 Markel Irizar (Esp) Trek-Segafredo 14:21:00
33 Jurgen Roelandts (Bel) Lotto Soudal 14:22:00
34 Frederik Backaert (Bel) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:23:00
35 Christophe Laporte (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 14:24:00
36 Yohann Gene (Fra) Direct Energie 14:25:00
37 Mike Teunissen (Ned) Team Sunweb 14:26:00
38 Alexander Kristoff (Nor) Katusha-Alpecin 14:27:00
39 Marcus Burghardt (Ger) Bora-Hansgrohe 14:28:00
40 Cyril Lemoine (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 14:29:00
41 Vegard Stake Laengen (Nor) UAE Team Emirates 14:30:00
42 Adrien Petit (Fra) Direct Energie 14:31:00
43 Laurent Pichon (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 14:32:00
44 Dion Smith (NZl) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:33:00
45 Lars Ytting Bak (Den) Lotto Soudal 14:34:00
46 Sonny Colbrelli (Ita) Bahrain-Merida 14:35:00
47 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Astana Pro Team 14:36:00
48 John Degenkolb (Ger) Trek-Segafredo 14:37:00
49 Javier Moreno (Esp) Bahrain-Merida 14:38:00
50 Reinardt Janse Van Rensburg (RSA) Dimension Data 14:39:00
51 Julien Simon (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 14:40:00
52 Maciej Bodnar (Pol) Bora-Hansgrohe 14:41:00
53 Dmitriy Gruzdev (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 14:42:00
54 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr) Team Sky 14:43:00
55 Patrick Bevin (NZl) Cannondale-Drapac 14:44:00
56 Adam James Hansen (Aus) Lotto Soudal 14:45:00
57 Yoann Offredo (Fra) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:46:00
58 Jasha Sütterlin (Ger) Movistar Team 14:47:00
59 Yukiya Arashiro (Jpn) Bahrain-Merida 14:48:00
60 Matteo Bono (Ita) UAE Team Emirates 14:49:00
61 Jack Bauer (NZl) Quick-Step Floors 14:50:00
62 Scott Thwaites (GBr) Dimension Data 14:51:00
63 Florian Vachon (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 14:52:00
64 Perrig Quemeneur (Fra) Direct Energie 14:53:00
65 Daniele Bennati (Ita) Movistar Team 14:54:00
66 Zdenek Stybar (Cze) Quick-Step Floors 14:55:00
67 Tony Martin (Ger) Katusha-Alpecin 14:56:00
68 Pieter Vanspeybrouck (Bel) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 14:57:00
69 Michael Albasini (Sui) Orica-Scott 14:58:00
70 Jay McCarthy (Aus) Bora-Hansgrohe 14:59:00
71 Marco Marcato (Ita) UAE Team Emirates 15:00:00
72 Nils Politt (Ger) Katusha-Alpecin 15:01:00
73 Alessandro De Marchi (Ita) BMC Racing Team 15:02:00
74 Jesus Herrada (Esp) Movistar Team 15:03:00
75 Bakhtiyar Kozhatayev (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 15:04:00
76 Imanol Erviti (Esp) Movistar Team 15:05:00
77 Alberto Bettiol (Ita) Cannondale-Drapac 15:06:00
78 Damien Howson (Aus) Orica-Scott 15:07:00
79 Nikias Arndt (Ger) Team Sunweb 15:08:00
80 Angelo Tulik (Fra) Direct Energie 15:09:00
81 Elie Gesbert (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 15:10:00
82 Andrey Amador (CRc) Movistar Team 15:11:00
83 Simon Clarke (Aus) Cannondale-Drapac 15:12:00
84 Danilo Wyss (Sui) BMC Racing Team 15:13:00
85 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Direct Energie 15:14:00
86 Pawel Poljanski (Pol) Bora-Hansgrohe 15:15:00
87 Ben Swift (GBr) UAE Team Emirates 15:16:00
88 Stefan Küng (Sui) BMC Racing Team 15:17:00
89 Paul Martens (Ger) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 15:18:00
90 Dylan Van Baarle (Ned) Cannondale-Drapac 15:19:00
91 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Dimension Data 15:20:00
92 Nicolas Edet (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 15:21:00
93 Tiago Machado (Por) Katusha-Alpecin 15:22:00
94 Maurits Lammertink (Ned) Katusha-Alpecin 15:23:00
95 Michael Schär (Sui) BMC Racing Team 15:24:00
96 Tsgabu Grmay (Eth) Bahrain-Merida 15:25:00
97 Alexey Lutsenko (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 15:26:00
98 Koen De Kort (Ned) Trek-Segafredo 15:27:00
99 Michael Matthews (Aus) Team Sunweb 15:28:00
100 Axel Domont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 15:29:00
101 Eduardo Sepulveda (Arg) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 15:30:00
102 Romain Sicard (Fra) Direct Energie 15:31:00
103 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Team Sunweb 15:32:00
104 Oliver Naesen (Bel) AG2R La Mondiale 15:33:00
105 Michael Valgren Andersen (Den) Astana Pro Team 15:34:00
106 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-Scott 15:35:00
107 Simon Geschke (Ger) Team Sunweb 15:36:00
108 Jonathan Castroviejo (Esp) Movistar Team 15:37:00
109 Jens Keukeleire (Bel) Orica-Scott 15:38:00
110 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Team Sky 15:39:00
111 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) BMC Racing Team 15:40:00
112 Luis Angel Mate (Esp) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 15:41:00
113 Maxime Bouet (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 15:42:00
114 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Cannondale-Drapac 15:43:00
115 Haimar Zubeldia (Esp) Trek-Segafredo 15:44:00
116 Gianluca Brambilla (Ita) Quick-Step Floors 15:45:00
117 Thomas De Gendt (Bel) Lotto Soudal 15:46:00
118 Daryl Impey (RSA) Orica-Scott 15:47:00
119 Kristijan Durasek (Cro) UAE Team Emirates 15:48:00
120 Andrew Talansky (USA) Cannondale-Drapac 15:49:00
121 Cyril Gautier (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 15:50:00
122 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Bahrain-Merida 15:51:00
123 Andrey Zeits (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 15:52:00
124 Jarlinson Pantano (Col) Trek-Segafredo 15:53:00
125 Pierre Luc Perichon (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 15:54:00
126 Nathan Brown (USA) Cannondale-Drapac 15:55:00
127 Darwin Atapuma (Col) UAE Team Emirates 15:56:00
128 Marco Minnaard (Ned) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 15:57:00
129 Diego Ulissi (Ita) UAE Team Emirates 15:58:00
130 Primoz Roglic (Slo) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 15:59:00
131 Ben Gastauer (Lux) AG2R La Mondiale 16:00:00
132 Lilian Calmejane (Fra) Direct Energie 16:01:00
133 Rudy Molard (Fra) FDJ 16:02:00
134 Thomas Degand (Bel) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 16:03:00
135 Nicolas Roche (Irl) BMC Racing Team 16:04:00
136 Amael Moinard (Fra) BMC Racing Team 16:05:00
137 Robert Kiserlovski (Cro) Katusha-Alpecin 16:06:00
138 Mathias Frank (Sui) AG2R La Mondiale 16:07:00
139 Sergio Henao (Col) Team Sky 16:08:00
140 Daniel Navarro (Esp) Cofidis, Solutions Credits 16:10:00
141 Romain Hardy (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 16:12:00
142 Pierre Latour (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 16:14:00
143 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Direct Energie 16:16:00
144 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Orica-Scott 16:18:00
145 Guillaume Martin (Fra) Wanty – Groupe Gobert 16:20:00
146 Jan Bakelants (Bel) AG2R La Mondiale 16:22:00
147 Tony Gallopin (Fra) Lotto Soudal 16:24:00
148 Tiesj Benoot (Bel) Lotto Soudal 16:26:00
149 Serge Pauwels (Bel) Dimension Data 16:28:00
150 Carlos Betancur (Col) Movistar Team 16:30:00
151 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek-Segafredo 16:32:00
152 Brice Feillu (Fra) Fortuneo – Vital Concept 16:34:00
153 Emanuel Buchmann (Ger) Bora-Hansgrohe 16:36:00
154 Alexis Vuillermoz (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 16:38:00
155 Mikel Nieve (Esp) Team Sky 16:40:00
156 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 16:42:00
157 Damiano Caruso (Ita) BMC Racing Team 16:44:00
158 Alberto Contador (Esp) Trek-Segafredo 16:46:00
159 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Sunweb 16:48:00
160 Louis Meintjes (RSA) UAE Team Emirates 16:50:00
161 Simon Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott 16:52:00
162 Daniel Martin (Irl) Quick-Step Floors 16:54:00
163 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 16:56:00
164 Mikel Landa (Esp) Team Sky 16:58:00
165 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale-Drapac 17:00:00
166 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 17:02:00
167 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 17:04:00
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...-trial-start-times-343404#SUxRgeamGGRzOyW5.99


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Won what?


Polka dots and yellow


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'm sure Monkey told us he was one of the Colombian middle classes and not a true Colombian like Quintana.





rich p said:


> He did and I actually told that to someone on a ride today. I shall now have to apologise and set them straight.
> Deep knowledge of the peloton, my arse....



Monkey was the one true Colombian (who still kept writing Columbia on a frequent basis and then blaming auto-spell, despite picking up others for it)


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

Tactical Lanterne Rouge by Sky allowing maximum time for Sky to analyse Rowe's data for Froome.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> So much easier to predict results half way through a 22km stage...


Especially when they start 42 seconds in the lead.

Women's yawnfest over then: Needs a lot more work if it's to give the women the respect they deserve.


----------



## Bonus (22 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Yes, as someone who has never been to Marseille I was always given the impression it was something of a dump. But so far looks absolutely tranquil.



I was under the impression it was a "foreign organized crime gang infested" dock city.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> I was under the impression it was a "foreign organized crime gang infested" dock city.


It is.


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> It is.



Liverpool with sunshine?


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

[QUOTE="Crackle,

Women's yawnfest over then: Needs a lot more work if it's to give the women the respect they deserve.[/QUOTE]

its time the female riders had a tour de france of their own , and I mean a proper tour de france......build it and they will come


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Liverpool with sunshine?


Also with Bouillabaisse and the lovely Mediterranean accent.


----------



## MacB (22 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> AG2R have the best kit - love it!



Awesome, and thank you, if it wasn't for those with bad taste then my good taste wouldn't be able to shine as brightly as it does.


----------



## Viking (22 Jul 2017)

IIRC, when Taggart was dubbed into French, the characters were given Marseille accents.


----------



## Beebo (22 Jul 2017)

Cummings looks terrible.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

He looked bonked


----------



## MacB (22 Jul 2017)

Cummings....if he had produced just 10% of what the commentators talked up for him then this would have been an awesome tour for him.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

cummings looked ill.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

TM using 1x..


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'm sure Monkey told us he was one of the Colombian middle classes and not a true Colombian like Quintana.



You might be thinking of Henao.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

To paraphrase Luke Rowe, it's not over till the thin man spins.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Well, I was out this morning so recorded La Course to watch when I got home and... what a load of shite.

Not just the format, the coverage as well - keeping the camera on Lizzie soft-pedalling and missing Longo-Borgini and Guarnier going off at the start is pretty amateurish.

About the most interesting thing to come out of that is seeing just how hard that short climb is. It's going to make more of a difference to the men's TT times than we expected.



Crackle said:


> The rear groups aren't even chasing, fekkin pathetic and pointless.



Why would they? They never had a chance of winning.



Crackle said:


> Van Vleuten is going to take this.



I believe I said as much before the race even started. The course was too short for the format to work with the time gaps as they were.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> You might be thinking of Henao.


In fact I found it: I may be conflating several things together, a comment by FM about Quintana's indigenous descent and one by you about Uran being appreciated much more by Colombia's middle classes. Still, Monkey did spell Colombia, Columbia, so that was right. I prefer my original version though.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Why would they? They never had a chance of winning.


That was my point.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> In fact I found it: I may be conflating several things together, a comment by FM about Quintana's indigenous descent and one by you about Uran being appreciated much more by Colombia's middle classes. Still, Monkey did spell Colombia, Columbia, so that was right. I prefer my original version though.



Maybe I was thinking of Henao!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

I fell asleep, what did I miss....


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Nice rock!!!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

I like Luke Rowe


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Am I talking to myself? It's just like being at home...


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Am I talking to myself? It's just like being at home...


You're still asleep, it's all a dream.


----------



## Beebo (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Am I talking to myself? It's just like being at home...


Don't you have some DIY to do?


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> Don't you have some DIY to do?


I fitted a new ballcock yesterday so I'm due a month or two off domestic work.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

I'm still playing catch-up, so I've only just seen Tony Martin set off, and Bodnar has just knocked 51 seconds off Phinney's time at the second checkpoint...


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

it's a narrow twisty course this


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

It's a better course than I realised


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Bloody hell, Tony Martin grinding up that ascent in full TT position... and he only has a big chainring on that bike as well. That's insane.

Lost some time on Bodnar though.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

a brilliant ride from Kwiatkowski for second place


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

So close for Kwiat!


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

lots of falls, making me nervous.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

That's two of my punditry picks that have had incidents.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Roglic is having a stinker.


----------



## Archie (22 Jul 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> lots of falls, making me nervous.


When are you off?


----------



## Shadow (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> That's two of my punditry picks that have had incidents.


And if the Dawg has an offish afternoon, there will be very, very few PTP points handed out. Which might make Marmy happy as he'll have no arithmetic to do later!


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

Archie said:


> When are you off?



I did my ride this morning, proper 30 miles none of this lightweight 14 miles sightseeing stuff.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

The Elite Republican Rigoberto Uran is on his way!


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2017)

Here we go then!


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Blimey, Bertie's going well.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

So, is Froome going to catch Bardet before the climb or what?


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Blimey, Bertie's going well.


Steak and frites before he set off?


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> Steak and frites before he set off?



Bouillabaisse Belge


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

bertie had a good ride, well there was a lot at steak


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

bloody hell that was close to the boolards for bardet


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

what's going on with the cover over Landa's number? Hope that isn't a penalty issue?


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Bardet looks to have misjudged this climb


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Bardet looks to have misjudged this climb


 He's blown. Maybe went out too hard, but I guess he had to go for it. A proper shame, as I'd love to have seen him on the podium.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

uran in the barriers


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

Uran WTF!


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Jeezo!


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

Bardet!!!!!!!!!!! By a second


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

Well done Bardet to hang on to the podium spot - and stay in front of Froome.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

damn frenchies booing froome


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

1 second, 1 second, bloody hell!


----------



## Viking (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> damn frenchies booing froome



And Uran. Probably just home crowd behaviour


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Landa should attack Bardet tomorrow to take the podium spot. He'll maybe even manage to knock Froome off the top spot if he tried hard enough.


----------



## Beebo (22 Jul 2017)

They were more interested in booing Froome than cheering their own guy.


----------



## Bonus (22 Jul 2017)

It might be hard tomorrow NOT to race for third spot. ;-)


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Landa should attack Bardet tomorrow to take the podium spot. He'll maybe even manage to knock Froome off the top spot if he tried hard enough.


Wow! And Sky are unpopular now. That would be nuclear.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Have seen none of it today, could someone put the GC on please?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Have seen none of it today, could someone put the GC on please?


you have access to the internet...


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> you have access to the internet...


Indeed, but unlike some, I know there are good members out there who would be happy to oblige as I am already on the forum. After all, this is a cycling thread.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

http://www.marmionismygooglebitch.com


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)




----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> View attachment 363486


Thank you Roadrash, you are a true gentleman. Much appreciated.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

That's not what mrs roadrash calls me.....


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Thank you Roadrash, you are a true gentleman. Much appreciated.


Give Mrs gavroche a shout and tell her to put the kettle on, would you?


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

If Froome had not given the 2012 TdF to Wiggins, he could be a 5 times winner by tomorrow night.


----------



## MikeG (22 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> It might be hard tomorrow NOT to race for third spot. ;-)



Exactly. Whilst the rest process gently to Paris, and then around Paris, Landa and Bardet might be watching each other rather closely.

Well done to young Yates as well. 7th over all, and winner of the White jersey.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2017)

Sums up everything about Bardet this



I'd love to see him win it but there's a wealth of French talent who could


----------



## Bollo (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Give Mrs gavroche a shout and tell her to put the kettle on, would you?


But it'll be that horrible Liptons tea. And the milk will be wrong.


Crackle said:


> Sums up everything about Bardet this
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see him win it but there's a wealth of French talent who could



Me too. I took grief from Mrs Dr B about being happy that Bardet had kept his podium from Landa. Without him and AG2R the GC would have been every bit as boring and processional as @Marmion says. And says......


----------



## oldgreyandslow (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> damn frenchies booing froome


Just about sums them up
Class?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> But it'll be that horrible Liptons tea. And the milk will be wrong.
> 
> Me too. I took grief from Mrs Dr B about being happy that Bardet had kept his podium from Landa. Without him and AG2R the GC would have been every bit as boring and processional as @Marmion says. And says......


I just seems like I keep repeating it, in reality it is just the enormity of how right I was going round and round and round in your head...


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I just seems like I keep repeating it, in reality it is just the enormity of how right I was going round and round and round in your head...


The irritating thing is that they almost got it right in hindsight.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> damn frenchies booing froome



As soon as Froome stops being a GC contender he'll get the cheers like Contador today.


----------



## Beebo (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> If Froome had not given the 2012 TdF to Wiggins, he could be a 5 times winner by tomorrow night.


And Landa could have won if he hadn't done all the grunt work. 
It is all ifs and buts.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (22 Jul 2017)

Jeez how lucky was Uran


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> And Landa could have won if he hadn't done all the grunt work.
> It is all ifs and buts.


Sorry but it is not an "if" but a fact that Froome handed it on a plate to Wiggins. In that famous mountain stage, Wiggins was well and truly beaten. Only team orders stopped Froome from putting minutes into Wiggins.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> The irritating thing is that they almost got it right in hindsight.


They nearly did. 

Maybe they'll learn.

Than again, when I look at the clusterf*ck that was the women's event...


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

the first half of the womens race was ok but who ever came up with todays shite wants sacking


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> the first half of the womens race was ok but who ever came up with todays shite wants sacking


That would be because the first part was a race, today was marketing bollocks that was not even proper marketing bollocks.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

it was even shite as marketing bolox,i admit, I know nothing about the logistics and organisation but its time they had a proper womens tour


----------



## Bonus (22 Jul 2017)

Spanish TV is full of the "1 second behind" news. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> it was even shite as marketing bolox,i admit, I know nothing about the logistics and organisation but its time they had a proper womens tour


They should stick @rich p in charge


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

I thought he was in charge, hence todays farce


----------



## themosquitoking (22 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Spanish TV is full of the "1 second behind" news. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.


I just saw an interview with Froome where he more or less dismissed it as unlucky. I hope he shows some class and helps Landa get that second back tomorrow.


----------



## roadrash (22 Jul 2017)

^^^^it would be interesting^^^


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but it is not an "if" but a fact that Froome handed it on a plate to Wiggins. In that famous mountain stage, Wiggins was well and truly beaten. Only team orders stopped Froome from putting minutes into Wiggins.



The whole of the race is team orders. Otherwise you wouldn't have team leaders, protected riders, domestiques etc. Strong though Froome has been, it's difficult to believe he hasn't benefited from team orders in any of his wins; and at times it's certainly looked as though Landa could have taken the race from Froome in the same way it's alleged Froome could have taken it from Wiggins.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2017)

HF2300 said:


> it's certainly looked as though Landa could have taken the race from Froome in the same way it's alleged Froome could have taken it from Wiggins



Kwiatkowski could have won it too if he hadn't totally sacrificed himself for Froome. And he beat him in the final TT.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Sorry but it is not an "if" but a fact that Froome handed it on a plate to Wiggins. In that famous mountain stage, Wiggins was well and truly beaten. Only team orders stopped Froome from putting minutes into Wiggins.



Froome had his job to do. That's how it is. 
Likewise, Froome now has people riding for him; his riders seem to have got the message without feeling the need to be the monkey with the clapping cymbals...


----------



## themosquitoking (22 Jul 2017)

When it comes down to it Froome expects loyalty he wouldn't be prepared to supply. I don't like the fact that this time next year he could rate as highly as Mercx in TDF wins considering Mrecx was winning 50 plus races a year and Froome hasn't won a single stage this year yet.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> When it comes down to it Froome expects loyalty he wouldn't be prepared to supply. I don't like the fact that this time next year he could rate as highly as Mercx in TDF wins considering Mrecx was winning 50 plus races a year and Froome hasn't won a single stage this year yet.


There is also little point comparing, just accept things as they are/were.


----------



## MrGrumpy (22 Jul 2017)

It's all changed days from back then. You really can't compare ?! However is it really strange that you can win the whole race without winning a stage ? It's not if you think about it , if you look at the winners of previous races over the years , they were errrm a bit suss ?!


----------



## Adam4868 (22 Jul 2017)

You don't get to win four tours without being a 'decent' rider....Froome is the leader of sky and a great all round rider.I doubt he pushed himself to the limit today in the TT,there was no point in risking it.I know he's got his haters that's what happens when your so dominant.Sky controlled the race from start to end,even without Thomas.They had riders such as Landa and Kwiatowski who could easily have stepped up as a plan B or C.They were there for one thing yellow,and that's what they got job done.
Chapeau Froomey and sky !


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

MrGrumpy said:


> It's all changed days from back then. You really can't compare ?! However is it really strange that you can win the whole race without winning a stage ? It's not if you think about it , if you look at the winners of previous races over the years , they were errrm a bit suss ?!


"Suss" or not, it has nothing to do with current or previous races, nor should we look at making a "value" judgement.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> You don't get to win four tours without being a 'decent' rider....Froome is the leader of sky and a great all round rider.I doubt he pushed himself to the limit today in the TT,there was no point in risking it.I know he's got his haters that's what happens when your so dominant.Sky controlled the race from start to end,even without Thomas.They had riders such as Landa and Kwiatowski who could easily have stepped up as a plan B or C.They were there for one thing yellow,and that's what they got job done.
> Chapeau Froomey and sky !


I don't believe Froome held himself back today, a true champion would want to win a stage and he was not too far off taking it.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2017)

themosquitoking said:


> I just saw an interview with Froome where he more or less dismissed it as unlucky. I hope he shows some class and helps Landa get that second back tomorrow.


so last day to Paris etiquette only extends to the maillot jaune then ? Hope Bardet attacks while they Sky squad are rolling along sipping champagne.


----------



## Adam4868 (22 Jul 2017)

He wants to win,but take too many risks ? Nah he did what he had too


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> They were more interested in booing Froome than cheering their own guy.


they had about three seconds to cheer then switch over to boos


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2017)

I was really hoping Froome would catch Bardet on the line to see how the crowd would respond.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Strathlubnaig said:


> I don't believe Froome held himself back today, a true champion would want to win a stage and he was not too far off taking it.


Ahh, but is he a "true champion"..?

<make up your own smiley here>


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'd love to see him win it but there's a wealth of French talent who could



David Gaudu?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'm thinking of maybe going over - arrive morning, depart late evening - but then again I think about it most years...
> £219 return at present. Which would be worth it just to see The Beautiful Marcel.


And, as usual, it was just a thought.

I shall be cleaning my kitchen cupboards tomorrow.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2017)

Let's remind ourselves that winning the Tour or any Grand Tour, is about completing it the fastest time over the 3 weeks, and not winning stages, and as calling winners from years past " suss" is idiotic and an insult to their achievement. Winners from many years ago didn't have the care , nutritionists and technology that they have today. Somebody like Jacques Anquetil could do 120 miles without a drink and eat a feast in a restaurant the night before a race. He was still the first to win 5 Tours and winning one Tour, wearing the yellow jersey from day 1 to the finish in Paris.


----------



## themosquitoking (22 Jul 2017)

Strathlubnaig said:


> so last day to Paris etiquette only extends to the maillot jaune then ? Hope Bardet attacks while they Sky squad are rolling along sipping champagne.


I'd love it if Uran attacked and took the jersey off Froome/


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> And, as usual, it was just a thought.
> 
> I shall be cleaning my kitchen cupboards tomorrow.


Ask gavroche if he'll do it for you....


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Let's remind ourselves that winning the Tour or any Grand Tour, is about completing it the fastest time over the 3 weeks, and not winning stages, and as calling winners from years past " suss" is idiotic and an insult to their achievement. Winners from many years ago didn't have the care , nutritionists and technology that they have today. Somebody like Jacques Anquetil could do 120 miles without a drink and eat a feast in a restaurant the night before a race. He was still the first to win 5 Tours and winning one Tour, wearing the yellow jersey from day 1 to the finish in Paris.


He didn't need nutritionists!!!!!
_Also at this time, one of the men to have won the Tour five times, Jacques Anquetil, was in his prime. Anquetil reportedly perfected the use of “the Anquetil cocktail” comprising a painkiller, morphine or palfium, injected directly into painful muscles even whilst cycling; an amphetamine to offset the somnolent effect of morphine; and a sleeping tablet, Gardenal, to allow sleep when the stimulatory effects of the amphetamines were still active. Anquetil’s recorded comment is that:

“You would have to be an imbecile or a crook to imagine that a professional cyclist who races for 235 days a year can hold the pace without stimulants”_


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Ask gavroche if he'll do it for you....


He's unlikely to know what a kitchen is. "The door where food arrives from. pah, women's work"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> He didn't need nutritionists!!!!!
> _Also at this time, one of the men to have won the Tour five times, Jacques Anquetil, was in his prime. Anquetil reportedly perfected the use of “the Anquetil cocktail” comprising a painkiller, morphine or palfium, injected directly into painful muscles even whilst cycling; an amphetamine to offset the somnolent effect of morphine; and a sleeping tablet, Gardenal, to allow sleep when the stimulatory effects of the amphetamines were still active. Anquetil’s recorded comment is that:
> 
> “You would have to be an imbecile or a crook to imagine that a professional cyclist who races for 235 days a year can hold the pace without stimulants”_


The interview on ITV4 with Vin Denson missed a chance in my opinion - he seemed well open to divulge but Ned went down the "they were different days" route, which I found disappointing in a "we'll keep the omerta" position


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The interview on ITV4 with Vin Denson missed a chance in my opinion - he seemed well open to divulge but Ned went down the "they were different days" route, which I found disappointing in a "we'll keep the omerta" position


In a documentary about Tommy S, I remember him showing a teammate, (possibly Vin Denson), being his pills and potions, which cost as much as the domestique was earning IIRC.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2017)

Generally, both Robbie Hatch on ES and Ned on ITV, always mention doping, albeit with a sense of reluctance. 
Probably because the pundits are Kelly and Millar respectively.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Generally, both Robbie Hatch on ES and Ned on ITV, always mention doping, albeit with a sense of reluctance.
> Probably because the pundits are Kelly and Millar respectively.


One would almost think "some French word that means deju vu all over again"


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Generally, both Robbie Hatch on ES and Ned on ITV, always mention doping, albeit with a sense of reluctance.
> Probably because the pundits are Kelly and Millar respectively.


Kelly is a class act, and has no record of doping as far as I know, nor suspicion of it. Millar of course, guilty as sin.


----------



## alicat (23 Jul 2017)

So, I'm heading to Paris later today, getting there about 11. Catching a train back to my temporary home in Lille just before 9pm. 

Suggestions please to make the most of the day. Do I need to be glued to a spot all day if I want to watch the race on the Champs Elysees? How hard is it to get away afterwards? Are there any loos handy?


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (23 Jul 2017)

Disgusted with the French booing of Froome. He goes out of his way to appease them, he loves and respects their country and their race. And still they boo. And it's not like he's bullying anyone like Armstrong used to do. He seems a thoroughly decent and nice chap. His only crime is that he is better than any of the French. When foreigners compete in a Britain we cheer them on (mostly). If the French are unable to extend a warm welcome to all nationalities then they don't deserve the world's largest annual sporting event.


----------



## SWSteve (23 Jul 2017)

I'm away to run a marathon, did Bardet bin it, it were his legs just empty?

Seen comments from him along the lines of 'the rider from the 90s generation we will see win it all is Tom Dumoulin' - not overly positive from the Frenchman


----------



## rich p (23 Jul 2017)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Kelly is a class act, and has no record of doping as far as I know, nor suspicion of it. Millar of course, guilty as sin.


Well he didn't take EPO or HGH but do some easy research, read Willy Voets book.
He's always uncomfortable when doping is being discussed.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Kwiatkowski could have won it too if he hadn't totally sacrificed himself for Froome. And he beat him in the final TT.



Indeed.


----------



## MikeG (23 Jul 2017)

Sky are the best team, by some way. Would anyone care to speculate on the result if they had a different leader? I mean, if Landa or Kwiatowsky or Bardet had been their leader, I guess most people would suggest that they would have won the Tour, but how far down the list does that go? What about Yates........could Sky have got him around France the fastest?


----------



## screenman (23 Jul 2017)

There are many brits it seems would like to see Froome lose, I am not one of them.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> I'd love to see him win it but there's a wealth of French talent who could


Wasn't there a thread along these lines last year?


----------



## gavroche (23 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Disgusted with the French booing of Froome. He goes out of his way to appease them, he loves and respects their country and their race. And still they boo. And it's not like he's bullying anyone like Armstrong used to do. He seems a thoroughly decent and nice chap..


I agree with you. He doesn't deserve booing as he is a decent, honest and very good cyclist. I heard him speak French too and his level of the language is quite good. I hope he will be applauded in Paris today . The best man won.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Sky are the best team, by some way. Would anyone care to speculate on the result if they had a different leader? I mean, if Landa or Kwiatowsky or Bardet had been their leader, I guess most people would suggest that they would have won the Tour, but how far down the list does that go? What about Yates........could Sky have got him around France the fastest?


When the Yates boys are racing, they are generally doing it all on their own, the Orica team are very weak in the mountains, so their results are remarkable really, especially given their age.


----------



## Bonus (23 Jul 2017)

passing Right! Lol


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2017)

Could Froome have caught Bardet in the TT?


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Could Froome have caught Bardet in the TT?


I doubt it but the I was wondering if Froome being close to Bardet pushed him hard enough to keep that third place.


----------



## hoopdriver (23 Jul 2017)

I feel for Froome. He seems a decent guy and a great rider, yet he is carrying the can for Brailsford and Team Sky. True, he very much benefits from Team Sky's ruthless professionalism and "marginal gains" but on his own, he is not, or shouldn't be unpopular. He just ends up being Brailsford's (and Sky's) lightning rod.


----------



## MikeG (23 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> When the Yates boys are racing, they are generally doing it all on their own, the Orica team are very weak in the mountains, so their results are remarkable really, especially given their age.




Yeah, but my point is.......if one or other were on the Sky team, and was the team leader, could Sky take them to victory?

I'm not particularly interested in the Yates'. It's a general question about which riders would be good enough to win the Tour if they led the Sky team. Could Barguil have won it, for instance, if he rode (and led) Sky?


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> Sky are the best team, by some way. Would anyone care to speculate on the result if they had a different leader?



Froome's final margin of victory is less than his aggregate gain over Uran and Bardet in the time trial stages. For any other rider to have won this year's Tour as leader of Team Sky, they would need to have made bigger gains in the mountains than Froome did, or be at least as good as Froome was in the time trials.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)

I blame Antoine Vayer.


----------



## MacB (23 Jul 2017)

It's all about dedication, if you aren't prepared to sit on sandpaper FTW then you're not a real cyclist


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> It's all about dedication, if you aren't prepared to sit on sandpaper FTW then you're not a real cyclist


And he didn't even win. That's real dedication.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

Did he get done for illegal modifications or did they turn a blind eye to that? Maybe they thought anyone mad enough to ride on a sandpaper saddle is already punishing themselves enough.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2017)

Obviously the French are looking for a home winner. What sort of course wouldn't suit Froome? _and_ benefit a French rider? who would it be?


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did he get done for illegal modifications or did they turn a blind eye to that? Maybe they thought anyone mad enough to ride on a sandpaper saddle is already punishing themselves enough.


Didn't Thomas Becket do something similar?


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jul 2017)

Were missing the little thing that is Froome is a unbelievable rider in his own right.I rarely hear a negative thing from any of his team mates.We loved Wiggins because of the whole 'wiggo' thing.... But Froomey is just a cyclist,what you see is what you get.The best at what he does.


----------



## rich p (23 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I'm away to run a marathon, did Bardet bin it, it were his legs just empty?
> 
> Seen comments from him along the lines of 'the rider from the 90s generation we will see win it all is Tom Dumoulin' - not overly positive from the Frenchman





MikeG said:


> Yeah, but my point is.......if one or other were on the Sky team, and was the team leader, could Sky take them to victory?
> 
> I'm not particularly interested in the Yates'. It's a general question about which riders would be good enough to win the Tour if they led the Sky team. Could Barguil have won it, for instance, if he rode (and led) Sky?


It's conjecture and hypothetical so your guess is as valid (or more accurately, invalid) as anyone elses.


----------



## Bollo (23 Jul 2017)

A post mortem from William Fotheringham reflects on Froome, Sky and the French. I wouldn't have bothered linking to this in the spoilers thread, but it seems to be heading that way anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/23/sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france


----------



## Slaav (23 Jul 2017)

Couple of things ..... didn't Stock, Aitken and Waterman prove a little while ago that with a winning formula and good team behind the scenes, it is possible to get anything remotely plausible to No 1?? 

Returning to today, it would be truly amazing (but never gonna happen today) if it was agreed that it's ok to race today? Imagine if Sky went for podium/2nd even?? The only way this could ever happen is if Brailsford agreed to risk yellow to promote Landa with no guarantee of any upside? Obviously the other top teams, especially Bardet and Uran would have to agree but surely the upsides for them are minimal - unlike to unseat Sky and GC - so only really a downside?

Would be great but won't happen. It will still be interesting to see the stress and positioning in the lead up to the last few laps.... just imagine if the Sky Train starts mixing it with the sprinters teams only for one of the Sky chaps to miss a gear etc and an accidental gap forms?? 

Just imagine


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

Slaav said:


> Couple of things ..... didn't Stock, Aitken and Waterman prove a little while ago that with a winning formula and good team behind the scenes, it is possible to get anything remotely plausible to No 1??







> Just imagine



Hmmm, Bardet winning a pan-flat sprinters' stage by over two minutes... 

I'm trying to imagine exactly what it is that you've been smoking.


----------



## 400bhp (23 Jul 2017)

I wonder how bardet will react to what has happened. He got mullered yesterday and that will send him one of two ways.

What I know is he will never win a GT currently with his appalling TT ability.


----------



## Beebo (23 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> Obviously the French are looking for a home winner. What sort of course wouldn't suit Froome? _and_ benefit a French rider? who would it be?


As little TT Kms as possible and more bonus seconds at the top of very steep finishes. 
Froome is too good at steady pace climbing.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

Brailsford's plan for today: Sky ride at the front with champagne flutes raised, they allow Landa to sneak off the front, they then smash the flutes on the roadway in order that everyone else punctures and then form a human barrier across the entire roadway with arms interlinked to prevent any attempt of regaining contact with Landa


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)




----------



## themosquitoking (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Hmmm, Bardet winning a pan-flat sprinters' stage by over two minutes...
> 
> I'm trying to imagine exactly what it is that you've been smoking.


And where we can get some.


----------



## Adam4868 (23 Jul 2017)

Couple of things ..... didn't Stock, Aitken and Waterman prove a little while ago that with a winning formula and good team behind the scenes, it is possible to get anything remotely plausible to No 1??
Yea right.....you don't get to be No 1 without proving your worth.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Couple of things ..... didn't Stock, Aitken and Waterman prove a little while ago that with a winning formula and good team behind the scenes, it is possible to get anything remotely plausible to No 1??
> Yea right.....you don't get to be No 1 without proving your worth.


Pat and Mick.


----------



## Beebo (23 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> Pat and Mick.
> 
> View attachment 363688


Mystic Marmion is failing in his knowledge.
Just googled them, they never got to no 1, which is a shame. But they were a Stock Aitken Waterman group.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> Mystic Marmion is failing in his knowledge.
> Just googled them, they never got to no 1, which is a shame. But they were a Stock Aitken Waterman group.


Are you disputing that they were the No.1 disc jockey band of the late 1980s/eary 1990s?

Top of their game so they were.


----------



## MikeG (23 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> It's conjecture and hypothetical so your guess is as valid (or more accurately, invalid) as anyone elses.



 Yeah, but I can listen to my own opinions all day. I'm after the opinions, valid or invalid, of others. How much difference would a team as good as Sky make to the fortunes of lesser riders than Froome?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

400bhp said:


> I wonder how bardet will react to what has happened. He got mullered yesterday and that will send him one of two ways.
> 
> What I know is he will never win a GT currently with his appalling TT ability.



I think he will win a GT in due course but unlikely to win TDF on current form as you say. Indeed next year he may skip the TDF just to get a GT under his belt. Preferring of course the one with the least TT km.

On top of that is the emergence of my personal favourite GC rider which is Tom Dumoulin. I think baring injury he will be 100% all out for the TDF next year and he certainly has the pedigree to put 30 seconds into Froome in a TT.

Edit: Also an interesting afterthought is Quintana. What a disastrous year ! No chance of racing the Giro and will also be 100% focused on the Tour. With Porte utterly pissed off at his misfortune this year it could set the stage for the best TDF ever


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> I'm after the opinions, valid or invalid, of others.



Discussions like this generally work on a quid pro quo basis.


----------



## Slaav (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Hmmm, Bardet winning a pan-flat sprinters' stage by over two minutes...
> 
> I'm trying to imagine exactly what it is that you've been smoking.



Err..... apologies as I meant that the Sky team could possibly win the GC with(e.g.) Landa, Kwiat, Richie P, Uran, Barnet etc. Not with me though unfortunately!!

And I was more thinking of Landa sneaking a podium or even 2nd rather than Bardet grabbing yellow 

I clearly have been smoking cr4p gear


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

POLL:* Rate the 2017 TDF*

Might be deemed a little premature but what the hell, here it is anyway 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13511424


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2017)

Slaav said:


> Err..... apologies as I meant that the Sky team could possibly win the GC with(e.g.) Landa, Kwiat, Richie P, Uran, Barnet etc. Not with me though unfortunately!!



Don't get me wrong, I liked the SAW analogy - although I suspect in the late 80s, Kylie Minogue could have got to number one with a recording of her reading the telephone directory.



> And I was more thinking of Landa sneaking a podium or even 2nd rather than Bardet grabbing yellow



No reason why they shouldn't go for it, except that it wouldn't make Team Sky any more popular with the French public.


----------



## MikeG (23 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Discussions like this generally work on a quid pro quo basis.


Well, my opinion, for what it's worth, is implied by the question. I think Sky could have towed almost anyone of the top 10 to victory.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)

I think they couldn't and I think no other rider would have got back on after that wheel change.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2017)

Landa attacks!

Sky chase him down


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (23 Jul 2017)

Who would win, the Red Arrows or the Patrouille de France ? Only one way to find out....


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (23 Jul 2017)

Nyetimber beats champagne. Just saying.


----------



## Shadow (23 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Nyetimber beats champagne


This makes no sense. It's like saying Pol Roger beats english sparkling wine. 
I think we get your gist tho'.


----------



## Bonus (23 Jul 2017)

Froome has a mechanical!


----------



## Bonus (23 Jul 2017)

The Peloton takes a pee break to wait :-)


----------



## screenman (23 Jul 2017)

Bonus said:


> Froome has a mechanical!



That makes another bike worth a few more pounds, very clever.


----------



## StuAff (23 Jul 2017)

Truly bizarre augmented reality graphic from France Televisions there....


----------



## MikeG (23 Jul 2017)

BBC commentary saying that they are actually racing. What's that about?


----------



## Bonus (23 Jul 2017)

Starting to rain?


----------



## Starchivore (23 Jul 2017)

StuAff said:


> Truly bizarre augmented reality graphic from France Televisions there....



That was.... extremely odd. And they made those spectators stand about 50 metres away just for that??!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

MikeG said:


> BBC commentary saying that they are actually racing. What's that about?


The BBC are covering it? That's the biggest shock of the Tour. That they may have misinterpreted them racing less so.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

C'mon Swifty


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Crikey !!! Just belt it from the corner why don't you lol


----------



## MacB (23 Jul 2017)

Dylan who?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

MacB said:


> Dylan who?



Dylan Groanawagen - think I'll just call him Dylan lol


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

I do hope the Yates Bros prove to be more effective together than the Schleks ever were.


----------



## Archie (23 Jul 2017)

Never mind the Sagan DQ, Barguil being awarded the Super Combativity prize over De Gent is an absolute travesty.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Yup de Gendt deffo should have got combativity prize.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2017)

Back to twiddling me thumbs until the Vuelta


----------



## gavroche (23 Jul 2017)

Archie said:


> Never mind the Sagan DQ, Barguil being awarded the Super Combativity prize over De Gent is an absolute travesty.


I disagree. You try and go up those mountains like he did. Well deserved I say.


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> Back to twiddling me thumbs until the Vuelta



Yup. Shame that ITV are not showing it, gonna have to go back to ES. Although if that joker Edwards is coming back they are doing me a favour.


----------



## perplexed (23 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> I fitted a new ballcock yesterday so I'm due a month or two off domestic work.



I'll see your ballcock and raise you getting out of bed at 0300 am this morning to go outside and fix the fuggin' downpipe outside our window...

I'm not even bloody joking. It was peeing it down, and something stuck in the top, making every drop - rather than a steady flow - sound like it was bouncing on a kettle drum. Had to fix it as we had no chance of kip otherwise.

Christ knows what the rozzers would have made of it - me in shorts and tee shirt balanced on the porch roof at 0300...


----------



## StuAff (23 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Yup. Shame that ITV are not showing it, gonna have to go back to ES. Although if that joker Edwards is coming back they are doing me a favour.


ITV are doing highlights, as every year since 2012.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

perplexed said:


> I'll see your ballcock...


I'd rather you didn't encourage him...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

StuAff said:


> ITV are doing highlights, as every year since 2012.



Showing it Live . . .


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Well my evening is watching 'Les Triplettes de Belleville' for my TDF warm down.


View: https://youtu.be/CCN-6QmCmMo


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Well my evening is watching 'Les Triplettes de Belleville' for my TDF warm down.
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/CCN-6QmCmMo



Might have a watch of that during the holidays, cheers.

Here's Richie Porte's team showing the usual degree of sympathy for his injury that blokes show, either that or showing off their TAG watches...


----------



## Fight.The.Power (23 Jul 2017)

Hope you enjoy it Marmion


----------



## rich p (23 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I'd rather you didn't encourage him...


Hang on a mo. I'm not sure but I may have a photo of my salt and vinegar ballcock somewhere.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Hang on a mo. I'm not sure but I may have a photo of my salt and vinegar ballcock somewhere.


I'm sure we'll cope without it...


----------



## MasterDabber (23 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Well my evening is watching 'Les Triplettes de Belleville' for my TDF warm down.


That looks great... I've never seen/heard of it before... one to watch definitely.


----------



## SWSteve (23 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Well my evening is watching 'Les Triplettes de Belleville' for my TDF warm down.
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/CCN-6QmCmMo




Don't you mean Belleville Rendevois?


----------



## StuAff (23 Jul 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Don't you mean Belleville Rendevois?


Belleville Rendezvous was the UK title..


----------



## SWSteve (23 Jul 2017)

Wait, where do you hail from?

Fantastic film though (y)


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2017)

Here's Richie Porte's team showing the usual degree of sympathy for his injury that blokes show, either that or showing off their TAG watches...
View attachment 363815
[/QUOTE]
They were useless. GVA probably one of the races' biggest disappointments, although there wasn't much for him to go for.


----------



## threebikesmcginty (24 Jul 2017)

When does it start?


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2017)

threebikesmcginty said:


> When does it start?


Next July...


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did he get done for illegal modifications or did they turn a blind eye to that? Maybe they thought anyone mad enough to ride on a sandpaper saddle is already punishing themselves enough.


Gary Imlach suggested it may be technically legal with the saddle sponsors offering a half-dozen similar "TM2017TDFTT" saddles for sale for a few grand each.



Marmion said:


> The BBC are covering it? That's the biggest shock of the Tour. That they may have misinterpreted them racing less so.


I tried to listen to the BBC 5LSX digital radio commentary on one of the early stages like in previous years, rather than plug the office Freeview receiver in again, but it wasn't there. Identical cricket on two channels and no cycling.



gavroche said:


> I disagree. You try and go up those mountains like he did. Well deserved I say.


I think Barguil got another prize for that. Should have let de Gendt have the combativity, just for sheer distance and number of breakaways.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> Next July...


@Marmion says it'll be rubbish.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> I disagree. You try and go up those mountains like he did. Well deserved I say.





mjr said:


> I think Barguil got another prize for that. Should have let de Gendt have the combativity, just for sheer distance and number of breakaways.



Indeed. Two stage victories and a spotty jumper seem like reward enough for one person. I always thought the Combativity prize was essentially awarded for "heroic failure", although they gave it to Sagan last year.

I'm pretty certain this is not the first time the decision of whom to award the prize has been regarded as controversial.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> @Marmion says it'll be rubbish.


They might get it right next time, perhaps. I'll be sure to let you know


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Indeed. Two stage victories and a spotty jumper seem like reward enough for one person. I always thought the Combativity prize was essentially awarded for "heroic failure", although they gave it to Sagan last year.
> 
> I'm pretty certain this is not the first time the decision of whom to award the prize has been regarded as controversial.


They should ask us (or, more seriously) the general public


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> I tried to listen to the BBC 5LSX digital radio commentary on one of the early stages like in previous years, rather than plug the office Freeview receiver in again, but it wasn't there. Identical cricket on two channels and no cycling.



It was only available via a link on the BBC Sport website, not via the usual Radio 5 website


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2017)

Buddfox said:


> It was only available via a link on the BBC Sport website, not via the usual Radio 5 website


...and I assume not even a streaming address that can be put into an internet radio. I'll stick to broadcast media for broadcasts, rather than using up any of the office broadband. Would it kill the BBC to broadcast it instead of one of the two identical cricket streams?


----------



## Beebo (24 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> They should ask us (or, more seriously) the general public


But who are the general public?
It is a french race, so they would only have to ask the french public, and guess who they would vote for.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> View: https://twitter.com/DeGendtThomas/status/888775253400399873
> 
> 
> He's replying to this. I have no idea who privided "voix du public"
> View attachment 363893



They certainly weren't thinking of the "yeux du public". That graph is a crime against taste and decency.

(Feck me I made a foreign language pun!)


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2017)

I was listening to Alan Brazil on Talksport this morning and there was a lot of discussion about Chris Froome and why he doesn't receive the plaudits he deserves in Britain.
He doesn't seek publicity
He was born in Kenya and lives in Monaco
Jiffygate and TUEs
He's not a rebel or have a quirky personality (Wiggins and Cav)
People are becoming blasé about him winning the TdF
He wasn't the first 'Brit' to win the Tour
He spends very little time in the UK
He's not a track cyclist

Should he promote himself more for the British public or just continue as he is? Does it secretly upset him that he is not an icon with the British public?


----------



## roadrash (24 Jul 2017)

I would think most of the british public think ... oh.... ok , hes won a bike race four times... I doubt the majority of the public actually know very much about bike racing, about as much as I know about football ....feck all


----------



## CanucksTraveller (24 Jul 2017)

roadrash said:


> I would think most of the british public think ... oh.... ok , hes won a bike race four times... I doubt the majority of the public actually know very much about bike racing



I'd agree with this. Wiggins had the benefit of being the first Brit to win, he has the advantage of being instantly recognisable, and he won Olympic gold for GB in the same year... and even with all that, he's still not that much of an icon to the general public in Britain. I just don't think road racing is a sport that the British public really get in big numbers... it's all a bit alien.


----------



## Milkfloat (24 Jul 2017)

"Does Froome care what the general public think and should he" is probably more relevant. He just won his 4th TdF who cares what his nationality is?


----------



## Fight.The.Power (24 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> I was listening to Alan Brazil on Talksport this morning and there was a lot of discussion about Chris Froome and why he doesn't receive the plaudits he deserves in Britain.
> He doesn't seek publicity
> He was born in Kenya and lives in Monaco
> Jiffygate and TUEs
> ...



I think another factor was the initial spat he had with Wiggins. People (including myself) were at bit miffed at him trying to usurp Wiggins ( who accomplished things I never thought possible for a Brit pre-Wiggins) and I think that perhaps has stayed in the British psyche. 

As far as I am concerned all is forgiven and I respect him as a class act but he has never been my Number 1 GC rider.


----------



## Aravis (24 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> I think another factor was the initial spat he had with Wiggins. People (including myself) were at bit miffed at him trying to usurp Wiggins ( who accomplished things I never thought possible for a Brit pre-Wiggins) and I think that perhaps has stayed in the British psyche.
> 
> As far as I am concerned all is forgiven and I respect him as a class act but he has never been my Number 1 GC rider.


A significant bit of background at the 2012 Tour was the very fresh in the mind 2011 Vuelta, which Sky probably lost because they backed the wrong horse for too long. So arguably Froome was right to question the continued favouring of Wiggins at the Tour.


----------



## Hont (24 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> I was listening to Alan Brazil...


I've had my radio get stuck on the wrong channel too. Try turning off and then on again. Else a hammer maybe?


----------



## Adam4868 (24 Jul 2017)

Because he's a 'winner' and were more used to losing ? Plus Wiggins was cool and was a mod,if you didn't know.Anyone else winning the tdf four times would be massive,maybe he is.Im still in France and he's all over papers.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Because he's a 'winner' and were more used to losing ?


This is a load of big hairy cartoon cock and balls; I'm not sure who "we" is, but I am assuming it means "Brits". Therefore "we" are not used to losing. It's something the right-wing press like to trot out with a degree of frequency tho, like they also trot out that to be good at things people need to be "mean", "nasty" and "work 300 hours a week (or something like that)".

Anyway, most people will know who Froome is, few will appreciate the significance of him winning the Tour, more will tut and say "dopers, the lot of them" (again, mostly due to ignorant right-wing press coverage) and then turn to their Murdoch-press newspaper and read about the Murdoch-sponsored borefest that is the English Premiership.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (24 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Froome has got pretty much blanket coverage on the sports pages this weekend. Including quite a lot of articles about "Why is no one writing articles about Chris Froome (see pages 3,4 and 5)". I'd guess he's as well known as Chris Hoy, and probably better known than Cav by the general public. (Wild guess, probably wrong).
> 
> And no, he won't win sports personality of the year. It'll be that boxing chap who beat the Russian.


Never mind SPOTY, what about the honours system ? Wiggins only wins one Tour and gets a knighthood. Froomey wins 4 and is still just an OBE.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Never mind SPOTY, what about the honours system ? Wiggins only wins one Tour and gets a knighthood. Froomey wins 4 and is still just an OBE.


This is either a wind-up or you've forgotten that he's a multiple Olympic and world champion, not to mention the record holder for 1 hour.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Never mind SPOTY, what about the honours system ? Wiggins only wins one Tour and gets a knighthood. Froomey wins 4 and is still just an OBE.





brommers said:


> This is either a wind-up or you've forgotten that he's a multiple Olympic and world champion, not to mention the record holder for 1 hour.



Oh FFS.


----------



## Crackle (24 Jul 2017)

William Fotheringham doesn't think Froome can win it again. He thinks he's in decline now at 32 and the lack of dominance this year and last is pointing towards the end of the Froome era.

He could be right but in mitigation this year was a funny parcours and Froome chose to alter his training to have a stronger third week but if I was one of his rivals I'd be thinking along the same lines. Next year could well see a stronger line up if that's the case as they all think they might be able to unseat him.

One thing is for sure, he won't, as Brailsford said, be around for another 5 years.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> William Fotheringham doesn't think Froome can win it again. He thinks he's in decline now at 32 and the lack of dominance this year and last is pointing towards the end of the Froome era.
> 
> He could be right but in mitigation this year was a funny parcours and Froome chose to alter his training to have a stronger third week but if I was one of his rivals I'd be thinking along the same lines. Next year could well see a stronger line up if that's the case as they all think they might be able to unseat him.
> 
> One thing is for sure, he won't, as Brailsford said, be around for another 5 years.


He deffo will not win 7. 

He might win 1 more, maybe.

Brailsford is a complete bell-end (which has nothing to do with anything mentioned beforehand, but it is worth stating)


----------



## Tin Pot (24 Jul 2017)

I like him. Well done Froome.

Is he doing any appearances around London?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Is he doing any appearances around London?



Not if he can help it.


----------



## User169 (24 Jul 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> I like him. Well done Froome.
> 
> Is he doing any appearances around London?



"Racing" in Holland on Wednesday. Might go and have a squizz.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2017)

Froome did the RideLondon - Surrey Classic last year. Not heard anything about this year.


----------



## Flick of the Elbow (25 Jul 2017)

brommers said:


> This is either a wind-up or you've forgotten that he's a multiple Olympic and world champion, not to mention the record holder for 1 hour.


Endurance track events at the Olympics and Worlds are a side show, an opportunity to be a big fish in a little pond. Likewise the Hour record. All very worthy but they don't compare with the Classics and Grand Tours.


----------



## MikeG (25 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Endurance track events at the Olympics and Worlds are a side show, an opportunity to be a big fish in a little pond. Likewise the Hour record. All very worthy but they don't compare with the Classics and Grand Tours.



No. You are comparing apples and pears, and determining that one is better than the other. It is a pretty special cyclist who is successful at both, and you don't get to discount a whole lot of performances and records simply because they aren't your chosen favourite.


----------



## Adam4868 (25 Jul 2017)

Crackle said:


> William Fotheringham doesn't think Froome can win it again. He thinks he's in decline now at 32 and the lack of dominance this year and last is pointing towards the end of the Froome era.
> Just seen
> He could be right but in mitigation this year was a funny parcours and Froome chose to alter his training to have a stronger third week but if I was one of his rivals I'd be thinking along the same lines. Next year could well see a stronger line up if that's the case as they all think they might be able to unseat him.
> 
> One thing is for sure, he won't, as Brailsford said, be around for another 5 years.


Just seen Fotheringham has stepped down from covering the tour.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jul/25/tour-de-france-william-fotheringham-2017#comments


----------



## Crackle (25 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Just seen Fotheringham has stepped down from covering the tour.
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jul/25/tour-de-france-william-fotheringham-2017#comments


I've just read that. When Channel 4 stopped covering the race and before the internet really kicked in, the only way I could follow the race was to read his reports in the Guardian. I used to cut them out and send them to a mate after I'd read them. The end of a little era.


----------



## Adam4868 (25 Jul 2017)

Enjoyed him myself,shame it was only for three weeks of the year.I hear the torygraph has good cycling coverage/reporting but I'll never know.....


----------



## mjr (25 Jul 2017)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Endurance track events at the Olympics and Worlds are a side show, an opportunity to be a big fish in a little pond. Likewise the Hour record. All very worthy but they don't compare with the Classics and Grand Tours.


But Murdoch likes the Olympics. I wonder why... maybe it's the salute...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnISASAjbEE


----------



## Viking (26 Jul 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Just seen Fotheringham has stepped down from covering the tour.
> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jul/25/tour-de-france-william-fotheringham-2017#comments


Just seen this. It is great news. Hope he stops writing books as well. His "Half man. Half bike" book about Merckx was shyte


----------



## Adam4868 (26 Jul 2017)

Viking said:


> Just seen this. It is great news. Hope he stops writing books as well. His "Half man. Half bike" book about Merckx was shyte


In what way ?


----------



## lyn1 (26 Jul 2017)

Fight.The.Power said:


> Absolutely. I used to do the exact same thing when I used to stack pretty hefty wagers on the Tour. But this was not a sprint finish. If EBH did revise the finish then credit to him,* my gut tells me he was lucky.* If he knew the roundabout trick then why the hell would he have attacked like a noob 1km before the roundabout ?
> 
> EDIT: When I say not a sprint Finish I mean not a flat stage.



Just seen this on DDD site. "From the pre stage meeting to the podium " clip. Discussion of the roundabout in team meeting before stage @ 0.40

https://www.facebook.com/TeamDiData/


----------



## gavroche (26 Jul 2017)

Food for thought: 
Win the TdF, 3 weeks of hard work: £500 000.
Play / Don't play 1.5 hours of football a week: anything from £200 000 to £500 000.
What a mad world we live in!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Food for thought:
> Win the TdF, 3 weeks of hard work: £500 000.
> Play / Don't play 1.5 hours of football a week: anything from £200 000 to £500 000.
> What a mad world we live in!


I doubt Froome would get £500,000 for playing football


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## roadrash (26 Jul 2017)

I doubt roooony would get £500.000 for riding the tour de france


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2017)

I doubt the Tour de France will ever be subject to a TV rights bidding war worth £5bn.


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## Adam4868 (26 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Food for thought:
> Win the TdF, 3 weeks of hard work: £500 000.
> Play / Don't play 1.5 hours of football a week: anything from £200 000 to £500 000.
> What a mad world we live in!


I'd guess Froomes annual salary would be 3/4 million ?


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## roadrash (26 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I doubt the Tour de France will ever be subject to a TV rights bidding war worth £5bn.



I recon this would help.......

Marmion said: ↑
I reckon each team should have a proper Wildman, a complete nutjob who could be used to protect the rest of his team from spectators; they could ride along with wooden clubs strapped to their bikes and wallop spectators if they got in the way or looked a bit dodgy. A sure-fire winner.

roadrash said
you could add another dimension to pro tour punditry, bonus points for whos Wildman pick decks the most spectators


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## gavroche (26 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> He deffo will not win 7.
> 
> He might win 1 more, maybe.
> 
> Brailsford is a complete bell-end (which has nothing to do with anything mentioned beforehand, but it is worth stating)


Where does your 7 comes from? Nobody has ever won 7 Tours. 5 is the target to beat.


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## gavroche (26 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> I doubt Froome would get £500,000 for playing football


I doubt any footballers could ride a bike in a competitive way for 3 weeks and be a winner.


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## brommers (26 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I doubt the Tour de France will ever be subject to a TV rights bidding war worth £5bn.


Alistair Browning Vs. Chris Froome up Mont Ventoux


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## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Where does your 7 comes from? Nobody has ever won 7 Tours. 5 is the target to beat.


7 was mentioned a few years ago by Froome/Brailsford as the target/potential number of wins


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## smutchin (26 Jul 2017)

I wonder what you'd need to do to be able to win the TdF seven times...


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## gavroche (26 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> 7 was mentioned a few years ago by Froome/Brailsford as the target/potential number of wins


I like Froome but I can't see him being the first to win 7 as he will be 35 by then. Too old. Look at Contador, he can't keep up with younger riders anymore.


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## Beebo (26 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> Food for thought:
> Win the TdF, 3 weeks of hard work: £500 000.
> Play / Don't play 1.5 hours of football a week: anything from £200 000 to £500 000.
> What a mad world we live in!


So how do you monetise a product which charges the fans nothing to watch.
If you can answer that then you will be a popular man.


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## gavroche (26 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> So how do you monetise a product which charges the fans nothing to watch.
> If you can answer that then you will be a popular man.


I don't understand your question.


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## Beebo (26 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> I don't understand your question.


The point is that the tour can only pay out what they bring in. Cycling is free to spectators so doesn't raise much money so can't pay big prizes. 
Football tickets cost loads. The sport brings in a huge revenue so can pay huge salaries. 
If you can work out how to charge the spectators then you can pay the riders more.


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## SWSteve (26 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> The point is that the tour can only pay out what they bring in. Cycling is free to spectators so doesn't raise much money so can't pay big prizes.
> Football tickets cost loads. The sport brings in a huge revenue so can pay huge salaries.
> If you can work out how to charge the spectators then you can pay the riders more.



Also, with the Tour being largely on FTA TV, the bidding can only go so far... 

surely no one would out a massive tourism advert behind a paywall


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## themosquitoking (26 Jul 2017)

Beebo said:


> So how do you monetise a product which charges the fans nothing to watch.
> If you can answer that then you will be a popular man.


I know the answer. Pm me for details, it'll cost you though.


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## hoopdriver (27 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> I wonder what you'd need to do to be able to win the TdF seven times...


I think we know the answer to that one...


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## hoopdriver (27 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> I like Froome but I can't see him being the first to win 7 as he will be 35 by then. Too old. Look at Contador, he can't keep up with younger riders anymore.


I don't think he'll win seven either, but...
1- There is no reason for believing he will decline with age at the same rate as Contador
2- He has Team Sky/Brailsford behind him. This last win had much to do with the strength of his team. They could effectively buy him a couple of wins by surrounding him with high priced GC talent to shepherd him along - bearing in mind that by any reckoning Froome is a very strong and tactically clever rider to begin with.


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## rich p (27 Jul 2017)

FWIW, which is nearly nothing, Froome said he'd like to win 6, just after he'd won his first IIRC.


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## MacB (27 Jul 2017)

rich p said:


> FWIW, which is nearly nothing, Froome said he'd like to win 6, just after he'd won his first IIRC.



Maybe he just needs a dose of curable cancer


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## mjr (27 Jul 2017)

gavroche said:


> I like Froome but I can't see him being the first to win 7 as he will be 35 by then. Too old. Look at Contador, he can't keep up with younger riders anymore.


Horner.


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## lazy farmer (27 Jul 2017)

forgive the thoughts of a new member who has lurked for a long time but I am curious on a couple of things. Why do so many on here not like Dave Brailsford ? He is hugely successful and much admired by many in other sports? and Why when Froome has stated he wants to win the Veulta and has trained accordingly do people think he is decline ?


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## mjr (28 Jul 2017)

lazy farmer said:


> forgive the thoughts of a new member who has lurked for a long time but I am curious on a couple of things. Why do so many on here not like Dave Brailsford ? He is hugely successful and much admired by many in other sports?


I think cycling has had more examples than most sports of strong charismatic managers later being denounced as frauds and DaveB's latest outburst at the Tour and attempt to ban journalists that actually only summarised recent coverage is all too reminiscent of US Postal and Discovery.

As for the Froome thing, I don't get it either. Let's see how he does at the Vuelta.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Jul 2017)

lazy farmer said:


> forgive the thoughts of a new member who has lurked for a long time but I am curious on a couple of things. Why do so many on here not like Dave Brailsford ? He is hugely successful and much admired by many in other sports? and Why when Froome has stated he wants to win the Veulta and has trained accordingly do people think he is decline ?



People can be successful and admired by some and still be a complete dick to others.
And Froome could still win the Vuelta and be in decline; he managed to win the Tour and was not as dominant as previously. He played the numbers well and was exposed a few times; if only more riders and teams had been willing to take Sky on. But they didn't. Too scared of losing a top 20 GC place or word tour points (or something) - there's still little flair in Grand Tour riding.


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## Crackle (28 Jul 2017)

lazy farmer said:


> forgive the thoughts of a new member who has lurked for a long time but I am curious on a couple of things. Why do so many on here not like Dave Brailsford ? He is hugely successful and much admired by many in other sports? and Why when Froome has stated he wants to win the Veulta and has trained accordingly do people think he is decline ?


I don't dislike Brailsford. I don't think there's anyone else who could have done what he's done at the time he did it, I also think he's key to Sky sponsorship but he has flaws which have been exposed recently. Big enough such that his position is almost untenable but his power base is broad enough to almost make him un-sackable. The downside of that is that he and by association, Sky/BC, carry the baggage of the TUE debacle and the bullying misogynistic culture in BC and whilst he's there those question will always be on every journalists lips. He should really have gone and let everything move on but he hasn't.


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## SWSteve (28 Jul 2017)

lazy farmer said:


> forgive the thoughts of a new member who has lurked for a long time but I am curious on a couple of things. Why do so many on here not like Dave Brailsford ? He is hugely successful and much admired by many in other sports? and Why when Froome has stated he wants to win the Veulta and has trained accordingly do people think he is decline ?



Brailsford's also spectacularly failed to respond to anything levelled with him since almost this time last year. There's been numerous times he's engaged with journalists, only to tie himself in knots and make things sound a lot worse. 

That coupled with him jot being happy that someone summarised the 'winter of discontent' so banned them from a presser is ridiculous. 

As is saying they will only do a press day with visual media, due to increased pressures - surely this would be more burdensome than written press.


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## Viking (28 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> People can be successful and admired by some and still be a complete dick to others.


I think that is almost inevitable (although I mean being seen a a complete dick rather than actually being one). My main concern about SDB is that he pushed himself as the gifted manager / leader type and that, IMV, has been his greatest failure: no procedures in place, no clear accountability, no audit trails, no backups of crucial data etc


> And Froome could still win the Vuelta and be in decline; he managed to win the Tour and was not as dominant as previously. He played the numbers well and was exposed a few times; if only more riders and teams had been willing to take Sky on. But they didn't. Too scared of losing a top 20 GC place or word tour points (or something) - there's still little flair in Grand Tour riding.


Completely agree


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## DCLane (28 Jul 2017)

Dan Martin goes up another level in my 'hard rider' list 

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...inished-tour-de-france-fractured-spine-344280


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## smutchin (28 Jul 2017)

Brailsford is given a lot of credit for the hard work and knowledge of other people - Peter Keen, primarily.

I don't know where the phrase 'marginal gains' came from but I wouldn't be surprised if he picked it up on his MBA course from a book with a title along the lines of 'How to be a business success with minimal talent'

He's a hack. And he has demonstrated many times that he has poor man-management skills and doesn't know how to deal with the media.


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## themosquitoking (28 Jul 2017)

DCLane said:


> Dan Martin goes up another level in my 'hard rider' list
> 
> http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...inished-tour-de-france-fractured-spine-344280


Only one level seems tight, two at least i reckon.


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## mjr (29 Jul 2017)

So Dan Martin completes the race with broken vertebrae, Luke Rowe with broken rib from stage 2 (says http://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/40631180 ). Any other nutters this year?


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## AndyRM (29 Jul 2017)

mjr said:


> So Dan Martin completes the race with broken vertebrae, Luke Rowe with broken rib from stage 2 (says http://www.bbc.com/sport/wales/40631180 ). Any other nutters this year?



Think that's it this year. G finished in 2013 with a broken pelvis which must have been a wee bit uncomfortable.


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## brommers (29 Jul 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I did 50k with a slight headache last weekend


Is that worse than a head wind?


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## Doseone (29 Jul 2017)

smutchin said:


> Brailsford is given a lot of credit for the hard work and knowledge of other people - Peter Keen, primarily.
> 
> I don't know where the phrase 'marginal gains' came from but I wouldn't be surprised if he picked it up on his MBA course from a book with a title along the lines of 'How to be a business success with minimal talent'
> 
> He's a hack. And he has demonstrated many times that he has poor man-management skills and doesn't know how to deal with the media.



Brailsford screwed up when he said that Simon Cope was in France to meet up with Emma Pooley which was impossible unless she had a Rasmussen like ability to be in two places at once because she was racing in Spain at the time.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Jul 2017)

The world according to Sir Dave:

Very good things happen - that was all down to me

Anything else happens - nothing to do with me


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## Bollo (29 Jul 2017)

Marmion said:


> The world according to Sir Dave:
> 
> Very good things happen - that was all down to me
> 
> Anything else happens - nothing to do with me


As the thread has gone rogue, I might as well shout out for an article written by David Walsh in the Sunday Times on the 16th July (it's behind the paywall - I was at Ma and Pa Bollo's for the weekend who have a subscription.) It was a proper hatchet job on Sir Dave. The substance was a recapitulation of crimes and misdemeanours but he ended by comparing Brailsford with Trump as both have "power without respect". Ouch!


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## Crackle (29 Jul 2017)

Bollo said:


> As the thread has gone rogue, I might as well shout out for an article written by David Walsh in the Sunday Times on the 16th July (it's behind the paywall - I was at Ma and Pa Bollo's for the weekend who have a subscription.) It was a proper hatchet job on Sir Dave. The substance was a recapitulation of crimes and misdemeanours but he ended by comparing Brailsford with Trump as both have "power without respect". Ouch!


If you sign up you get two free articles a week to read

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...pendage-to-dave-brailsfords-success-2vlqbg55w


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Aug 2017)

DCLane said:


> Dan Martin goes up another level in my 'hard rider' list
> 
> http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...inished-tour-de-france-fractured-spine-344280


I spotted on a Soanish language website that Steve Cummings completed the Tour with 2 fractured vertebrae; that's if the translation was correct, he could have quite easily have completed it having eaten 2 lobsters


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Sep 2017)

Just been announced (not sure if officially or not) that the Tour will be visiting Roubaix next year, Sunday 15th July.

Even by my standards it's a bit early to start a 2018 TdF thread, so thought I'd post here


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## MacB (16 Sep 2017)

Fair enough, you could maybe remove the spoilers bit from the thread title now though


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Sep 2017)

MacB said:


> Fair enough, you could maybe remove the spoilers bit from the thread title now though


I still havenae seen who won


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## Adam4868 (16 Sep 2017)

Marmion said:


> Just been announced (not sure if officially or not) that the Tour will be visiting Roubaix next year, Sunday 15th July.
> 
> Even by my standards it's a bit early to start a 2018 TdF thread, so thought I'd post here


Saw that myself i think they officially announce the stages mid October.


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## Crackle (16 Sep 2017)

I am hopefully going next year, which will be the first time since 2005, which was the last time Lance didn't win it.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> I am hopefully going next year, which will be the first time since 2005, which was the last time Lance didn't win it.


I keep thinking I'll go back to see the Tour just about every year, but end up going to Flanders and then thinking "bollocks the Tour" - planning for Flanders 2018 is already in progress


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## Adam4868 (16 Sep 2017)

Been to most except Roubaix,I'm fancying the Giro next year if has rumour has it finishing in Rome.I think the stages are announced this week.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Sep 2017)

Adam4868 said:


> Been to most except Roubaix,I'm fancying the Giro next year if has rumour has it finishing in Rome.I think the stages are announced this week.


I went to the Giro in Belfast; it was great, not quite proper Italian, but there was deffo a Giro vibe and it was brilliant.


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## Crackle (16 Sep 2017)

Marmion said:


> I keep thinking I'll go back to see the Tour just about every year, but end up going to Flanders and then thinking "bollocks the Tour" - planning for Flanders 2018 is already in progress


I was thinking about Flanders next year but it will have to be one or the other. April in Belgium or July in France, tricky.....


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## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> I was thinking about Flanders next year but it will have to be one or the other. April in Belgium or July in France, tricky.....


Flanders wins. No question. It's just an outstanding weekend. I think it sometimes interferes with you Englanders' "Easter" - one of the few Mondays' that you find it convenient to rejoice some shite


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## Adam4868 (16 Sep 2017)

Have to agree Flanders is a great weekend race,my other half came last year and loved it.Ghent is a great city.


Marmion said:


> I went to the Giro in Belfast; it was great, not quite proper Italian, but there was deffo a Giro vibe and it was brilliant.


Yes went to a few stages,one went nearly past family's front door.


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