# Hit and Run Road Rage Incident Advice



## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Had an incident this afternoon. A guy was double parked and opened his car door blocking the whole of one lane, forcing me into the opposite side of a busy road. As I passed I politely said to be more careful with his door next time.

Unknown to me, he pursued me for about 2 miles, before forcing me off the road. He was shouting at me that I frightened his child, and the continued to scream abuse at me before getting out. He then threatened to deck me, but soon stopped when I told him to try it. He got back in the car, reversed and drove at me. Then did it again, wheels spinning and knocked me and bike to the ground and drove over the back wheel. Don’t think he got the frame, as it appears intact but won’t know until I get the wheel off.

I was calm throughout and didn’t swear back. I was shocked that he had 2 very young kids in the car with only basic booster seats that are too old for them. More shocked that his missus didn’t speak or even look at me throughout.

I phoned the Police, but declined an Ambulance as the shin was only cut and bruised from the chainring digging in. They called back to say the Police won’t come now as no Ambulance = no Police.

They called me back at 16:23 to say they were on their way from the main station about 8 miles away. I am still waiting and had no update. Called 101 for an update and they stated it was high priority.

I appreciate that it’s actuslly low priority in the real world, but this was ultimately a hit and run incident against a cyclist. I can accept that this is the way it is in 2917, but what do I do next?

I know where he lives, but can’t exactly knock the door to get insurance details. I doubt he would give them anyway, and doesn’t look good if I don’t wait for the Police to get involved.

I am a British Cycling member, so maybe I should call them for advice? I have the car number plate and 2 households of witnesses that saw it all.

Has anyone experienced similar and what can I do to resolve the broken bike?

At a glance the following needs replacing:

Rear Wheel
Tyre
Tube
Rear Hanger
Rear Derailleur
Chain
Scraped Pedal
Scuffed Frame (Bare Carbon Matte Finish)

Until I get it looked at, I don’t know if the frame is damaged too. Fingers crossed that it isn’t, as really like the bike.


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## Drago (8 Oct 2017)

Report it to the police.

Then report it to your insurer.

Let them do the sweating.

Then remember that many of us don't waste our breath on road idiots for exactly this very reason. 

Hope you're OK.


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## johnnyb47 (8 Oct 2017)

OMG. That sounds awful. Although your not badly hurt it must of been horrific to of experienced that kind of abuse. What the hell,s the matter the guy. Crossed words "yes" but to go as far as he did is deplorable. This is a clear hit and run and he should be brought to justice of it. Without sounding over dramatic about it , he could of killed you behaving the way he did. His actions where deliberate and not of an accident. Personally I wouldn't let this incident "go" and follow it up. If you have insurance put a claim in against that lunatic and pop down to the police station to put in a formal complaint.You've got witnesses to it. If this idiot gets away with this scott free ,who knows what he would do next time to some unsuspecting cyclist that he dislikes. You did the right thing though as to not rising up to this psychopath. God knows what he would of done if you were to antagonize him. 
I'm glad your ok though and hope it hasn't put you off cycling. When something like this happens ,its easy to feel all motorists are the same but in reality there not. 
All very best and I hope that nob gets the book thrown at him for his disgusting behaviour.


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## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

Jesus fark.

I'm glad that didn't end up worse. 

Talk to BC tomorrow, and consider (after consulting a lawyer) talking to a journalist.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

Call the police and ask for both the call log number and collision number. Two seperate numbers.

I'd not class it as a hit & run either. He had time to think about what he was doing, and decided to chase you.

Forget the bike for now, get yourself checked over. Any damage will be harder to fix.


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## smutchin (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I am a British Cycling member, so maybe I should call them for advice? I have the car number plate and 2 households of witnesses that saw it all.



Yes. Definitely. BC will put you in touch with Leigh Day who specialise in dealing with this kind of thing.


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## Globalti (8 Oct 2017)

It was an assault, plain and simple. I would start by pressing for attempted murder.


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## johnnyb47 (8 Oct 2017)

When you read of incidents like this ,no wonder newbies to the world of cycling are often put off by the aggressive attitudes of some drivers. At the very worst a car will get away with just a broken mirror etc ,but a cyclist could quite easily lose there life. 
Traffic accidents are bad enough, but when things are intentional to cause damage or fear for your life it's just totally dispicable.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

I would start by not telling the coppers what you think it is - telling coppers what to do always hacks them off.

Stick to the tale, it's nasty enough as it is, and it's up to them how they charge it.

Leaving coppering aside, if you know where he lives, you can presumably get the reg no of his vehicle safely from driving by.

That gives you access to his insurance company details via the Motor insurers' Database, and you can then claim directly from his insurance company.

Asking British Cycling is a thought, but as there's no personal injury the claim may not amount to much, which in turn means their solicitors may not be very interested in it.

https://www.askmid.com/


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

I have changed the job I do at work recently. For the past 3 months I have been s lot more relaxed. I was pleased at how I reacted today but gutted at the end result. Part of me wonders whether I would have been better off decking him when he was in my face. Head says that I did the right thing though.

Thanks for the support everyone. Much appreciated. It hasn’t put me off, don’t worry. Literally my first ride out without knee pain after slowly adjusting the bike to help with the IT Band issue. Does law that I know have a seollen shin.

Don’t have specific bike insurance other than the British Cycling liability element. House insurance covers me up to a certain value I think though. BC is the best answer all things considered.


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## vickster (8 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> I would start by not telling the coppers what you think it is - telling coppers what to do always hacks them off.
> 
> Stick to the tale, it's nasty enough as it is, and it's up to them how they charge it.
> 
> ...


If he's a member, they'll represent him whatever the size of the claim

Get in touch with them in the morning, give them the reg number and start the ball rolling. Also see your GP and get the leg wound reviewed, start the medical documentation. Given how the driver acted, I'd go after him for PI and damage to property. Keep all receipts, photos of all damage to you, the bike, and any kit.

You do not need to have any contact with the driver, let LD handle it all through his insurers


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## mjr (8 Oct 2017)

johnnyb47 said:


> When you read of incidents like this ,no wonder newbies to the world of cycling are often put off by the aggressive attitudes of some drivers. At the very worst a car will get away with just a broken mirror etc ,but a cyclist could quite easily lose there life.


Why should it put people off cycling? These nobbers are on the roads, so they also endanger other motorists and especially people walking. If you can do anything that gets them prevented from driving, please do.


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## Levo-Lon (8 Oct 2017)

So no-one called old bill despite 2 households witnessing it?
You must be a saint


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> I would start by not telling the coppers what you think it is - telling coppers what to do always hacks them off.
> 
> Stick to the tale, it's nasty enough as it is, and it's up to them how they charge it.
> 
> ...


Mobile version available, both now charge due to misuse.


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

I plan to give the Police a statement and ask their advice @Pale Rider. I agree, I wouldn’t be suggesting to them how to do their job. I also won’t be complaining about them not coming out to me or for not telling me they weren’t after phoning to say they were on their way. Yes, it’s unfair, but I just assume that something more important came up. Sadly, that’s down to funding, and not the PC’s personal fault.


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## vickster (8 Oct 2017)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/accident-advice.151618/


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

meta lon said:


> So no-one called old bill despite 2 households witnessing it?
> You must be a saint


Did you read the post?


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

@bpsmith, see Accident Advice


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Cheers for the links everyone.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I plan to give the Police a statement and ask their advice @Pale Rider. I agree, I wouldn’t be suggesting to them how to do their job. I also won’t be complaining about them not coming out to me or for not telling me they weren’t after phoning to say they were on their way. Yes, it’s unfair, but I just assume that something more important came up. Sadly, that’s down to funding, and not the PC’s personal fault.


I'll be shouted down for saying this, but I did tell the officer that attended when I was hit I would do his job, if he didn't feel like doing it. That was well after the date of the incident and where I found out that nothing had been done by him. By which time I had the proper name, address and more of the driver.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> I'll be shouted down for saying this, but I did tell the officer that attended when I was hit I would do his job, if he didn't feel like doing it. That was well after the date of the incident and where I found out that nothing had been done by him. By which time I had the proper name, address and more of the driver.



You won't be shouted down by me - 'well after the date and nothing done' is a reasonable time to start complaining.

The OP's plan to start off on the right foot by making a calm statement and letting things take their course is a good one.

I hope @vickster is right about BC's solicitors taking an interest, happily for me, unhappily for her, she has more experience of that side of it than I do.


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## vickster (8 Oct 2017)

https://www.leighday.co.uk/Personal-Injury-and-industrial-disease/Cycling


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## Welsh wheels (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Had an incident this afternoon. A guy was done blue parked and opened his car door blocking the whole of one lane, forcing me into the opposite side of a busy road. As I passed I politely said to be more careful with his door next time.
> 
> Unknown to me, he pursued me for about 2 miles, before forcing me off the road. He was shouting at me that I frightened his child, and the continued to scream abuse at me before getting out. He then threatened to deck me, but soon stopped when I told him to try it. He got back in the car, reversed and drove at me. Then did it again, wheels spinning and knocked me and bike to the ground and drove over the back wheel. Don’t think he got the frame, as it appears intact but won’t know until I get the wheel off.
> 
> ...


Can't offer any advice, but hope you're ok. I'm pretty furious for you after reading that.


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Welsh wheels said:


> Can't offer any advice, but hope you're ok. I'm pretty furious for you after reading that.


Cheers. Appreciate the thought.


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Bike damage:


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Leg damage: slightly more swollen since though.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Bike damage:


Don't try riding it! 
And on a serious note don't do anything to it. Leave that to a bikeshop.


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Don't try riding it!
> And on a serious note don't do anything to it. Leave that to a bikeshop.


My first thought was to remove the wheel and check out the frame visually. Then stick another wheel on.

Then decided to wait until the Police come, in case they want to see it.

Going to have a word with the guys at my local shop tomorrow. It’s a different brand shop to mine, but they have a good bunch of well trained lads and will be happy to check it out for me.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> My first thought was to remove the wheel and check out the frame visually. Then stick another wheel on.
> 
> Then decided to wait until the Police come, in case they want to see it.
> 
> Going to have a word with the guys at my local shop tomorrow. It’s a different brand shop to mine, but they have a good bunch of well trained lads and will be happy to check it out for me.


Get a written quote for repairs.

Covered in the thread linked already.


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## Tanis8472 (8 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Mobile version available, both now charge due to misuse.



Always thought that was a daft thing to do, putting all the insurance details online.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

Those pics are very nasty.

Hopefully a copper who sees the pics will think as I do - something needs to be done about the person responsible.

The fact that he followed you for two miles to do it makes it worse.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Always thought that was a daft thing to do, putting all the insurance details online.


Came about as a result of misuse of their main site for the purpose of checking the other vehicle at the scene. Just tells you the insurance status of the vehicle.

Links to both are in the thread linked already.


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## Andrew_P (8 Oct 2017)

farking self-gratification artists using a car as weapon should do time, just as bad as taking a swing at you with a knife, if not worse. Something has to be done about using vehicles as offensive weapons. Hope you get it sorted, and really hope he gets sorted but not holding my breath.


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## vickster (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Leg damage: slightly more swollen since though.


Stick a bag of peas (wrapped in teatowel) on the leg for the swelling. And take a couple of ibuprofen assuming you aren't allergic or have a stomach ulcer

You'll need a full written report on the bike. I wouldn't do anything until you've spoken to Leigh Day (which might not be for a day or two, as BC will arrange). You have 3 years for the PI claim and 6 for property so there's no rush.

Here's hoping the a'hole driver doesn't deny it. You don't want to have to go to court


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## bpsmith (8 Oct 2017)

Just got a txt to apologise for not coming out earlier. They said that they tried to ring, but straight to answerphone.

I have my phone in hand and it didn’t ring...but then it wouldn’t when I have Do Not Disturb auto set from 10pm until 7am. All my own fault!


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Just got a txt to apologise for not coming out earlier. They said that they tried to ring, but straight to answerphone.
> 
> I have my phone in hand and it didn’t ring...but then it wouldn’t when I have Do Not Disturb auto set from 10pm until 7am. All my own fault!


Start making notes of numbers, times and dates. Your mobile operator can supply you the times of any calls made, and to what number(s).


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## johnnyb47 (8 Oct 2017)

Those pictures are shocking. That could of easily of been you underneath that idiots car and heaven knows what would of happened to you buddy.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Just got a txt to apologise for not coming out earlier. They said that they tried to ring, but straight to answerphone.
> 
> I have my phone in hand and it didn’t ring...but then it wouldn’t when I have Do Not Disturb auto set from 10pm until 7am. All my own fault!



This is good, shows you have some constabulary interest.

However, that iron may cool quickly as other, hotter, ones come along.

So I think you need to keep on top of it over the next day or two.

There will be some leg work (pardon the pun) for you, even though you are the injured party.

No way around that, regrettably.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> This is good, shows you have some constabulary interest.
> 
> However, that iron may cool quickly as other, hotter, ones come along.
> 
> ...


First of is to get himself checked.


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## Slick (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Bike damage:


What a bastard. If he's capable of that he's capable of much worse. He needs dealing with in my opinion.


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## Tangoup51 (8 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> My first thought was to remove the wheel and check out the frame visually. Then stick another wheel on.
> 
> Then decided to wait until the Police come, in case they want to see it.
> 
> Going to have a word with the guys at my local shop tomorrow. It’s a different brand shop to mine, but they have a good bunch of well trained lads and will be happy to check it out for me.



you have my deepest sympathy and I hope for the best outcome for you in this scenario.

- However, I would like to respond to your worries about potential frame damage; my bet, (this is my opinion i'm not a professional)

I think your frame will be absolutely fine. - Carbon is not a material to get tangled with in a tug-of-war battle. - Especially against metal.
It was a battle between your seat/chainstays yielding; or the wheel rim/spokes yielding. Carbon V Metal ( I assume your frame is carbon.) 

In that scenario, carbon would come out the victor; as it just loves pressure but hates high intensity impacts. - That rim would of provided alot of cushioning to your frame; think of it as an expendable pillow.

The damage i'm sure is as already listed in your first post. - This will not be the end of that bike.

I hope this gets resolved for you, my man.


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## huwsparky (8 Oct 2017)

Sorry to hear about that.

The fact that he followed you for two miles makes it even worse. That must make the charge against him worse surely?


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> First of is to get himself checked.



Aye, something else to add to the 'to do' list, which is already longer than I would like.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Aye, something else to add to the 'to do' list, which is already longer than I would like.


That bit I've done myself.


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## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

huwsparky said:


> Sorry to hear about that.
> 
> The fact that he followed you for two miles makes it even worse. That must make the charge against him worse surely?


I'd say it rules out a simple hit & run.


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## Pale Rider (8 Oct 2017)

The OP knows to steer well clear of this when talking to the police, but the most likely charge is dangerous driving.

There is 'causing serious injury by dangerous driving', but the injury is unlikely to be deemed serious in the context of the legislation.

Following the OP for two miles is a significant aggravating feature of the dangerous driving, making it more serious than if the same thing had happened within a minute of the door being opened.

Dangerous driving carries a maximum of six months if dealt with in the magistrates' court, two years if dealt with at the crown court, plus a mandatory driving ban and extended re-test.

We've all seen cases where the court system ultimately lets down the victim, but I've seen several similar cases over the years - someone driven at causing minor injuries - which have resulted in a short stretch.


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## Buck (9 Oct 2017)

That makes shocking reading @bpsmith. Hope you are OK and the shin is not too bad. 

Sounds like extreme road rage to me and no way a hit and run - dangerous driving and it sounds like he has some other issues to behave in such an extreme way that could have ended so much worse.

I hope the police are able to move this forward.


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## RoubaixCube (9 Oct 2017)

Even worse is he has done this in front of his two kids. Not exactly the greatest example of good parenting.

Fingers crossed the police will take serious action against this guy rather then just a slap on the wrist.


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## flake99please (9 Oct 2017)

I can only echo many of the words previously expressed. GWS.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

Rather painful this morning. Not swollen any further though, which is usually good.


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## Tanis8472 (9 Oct 2017)

Id bet a claim of exceptional hardship would be made, especially if i read that correctly, he's a blue badge holder


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Rather painful this morning. Not swollen any further though, which is usually good.


Still get it looked at by GP and practice nurse to make sure it's clean


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## mjr (9 Oct 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Id bet a claim of exceptional hardship would be made, especially if i read that correctly, he's a blue badge holder


I suspect "done blue parked" was an autocorrect of a mistyped "double parked" indicating the car had simply stopped in the main lane flow to unload.


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## mjr (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Rather painful this morning. Not swollen any further though, which is usually good.


Get to a medic ASAP. Walk-in(!) Centre if your own GP can't see you promptly. Hopefully it's all OK but you shouldn't increase the chance of that nobber causing you long term health complications by not getting something subtle but more serious treated sooner.


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## CanucksTraveller (9 Oct 2017)

Tanis8472 said:


> Id bet a claim of exceptional hardship would be made, especially if i read that correctly, he's a blue badge holder



I don't think that was the case; Quoting from the OP: 
"guy was done blue parked"
Most likely _double_ parked, auto corrected by technology to "done blue". He mentions that this, coupled with the door being open forced him on to the wrong side of the road. 

@bpsmith 
Horrible situation, I hope that you're over it soon and that this maniac pays, hard.


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## Tanis8472 (9 Oct 2017)

Gotcha 

Bet it still does though


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## davidphilips (9 Oct 2017)

Best regards and hope you get the idiot jailed thats where he should be, If he does get away with it no one would be safe with some nutter like that on the road.


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## Johnno260 (9 Oct 2017)

oh my, I'm glad you're ok those pictures are quite shocking.

that he used his children as a reason, then did what he did is an indication of the guys mental frame of mind.

let BC do there thing, don't touch the bike.

That has to be dangerous driving charge? but thing is there was intent in the guys actions.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Still get it looked at by GP and practice nurse to make sure it's clean


Popped into A&E as can’t get GP appointment. Thorough check of knee, leg and ankle shows no sign of broken bones. Soft tissue damage only. Something clicked when walking in and eased the pain. Might be unrelated, but certainly eased the pain.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I suspect "done blue parked" was an autocorrect of a mistyped "double parked" indicating the car had simply stopped in the main lane flow to unload.


Yes. Typo, which I have now edited.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4990447, member: 9609"]what happens in a situation like this with the regard to the police investigating? lets assume the mans children aged 8 & 12 were in the car; would the police ask them what had happened? in many respects they could be very good honest witnesses, but on the other hand it would just seem wrong to involve them.[/QUOTE]
They were more like 4 and 6, so wouldn’t want them involved. Your point is valid if they more the age that you quoted, I agree.


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## jefmcg (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4990447, member: 9609"]what happens in a situation like this with the regard to the police investigating? lets assume the mans children aged 8 & 12 were in the car; would the police ask them what had happened? in many respects they could be very good honest witnesses, but on the other hand it would just seem wrong to involve them.[/QUOTE]
They saw a violent assault by their father. Whether or not they become witnesses, they are going to need support to process that, and an assessment of whether they are in safe environment.

As for being witnesses, the CPS has policies to safeguard them. This man is so dangerous that I would "expect" the police to talk to them if the assailant denies the accusations.

More harm would come to the kids by their dad cajoling or threatening them into silence than the mere act of asking them what happened.

Edit before posting: see the kids were much much younger. I doubt they would be reliable witnesses. I guess I'd still worry about their safety when their dad has such anger issues.


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

Presumably his 'missus' would be a witness? Assuming she's not mute, hence not saying anything (probably also scared witless)


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Popped into A&E as can’t get GP appointment. Thorough check of knee, leg and ankle shows no sign of broken bones. Soft tissue damage only. Something clicked when walking in and eased the pain. Might be unrelated, but certainly eased the pain.


Good that you have that documented. If you see an expert for the PI claim, those records will be requested and form part of the medical report 

Manage to speak to BC yet?


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## Arjimlad (9 Oct 2017)

Just read this, shocking conduct and I hope you & your bike are feeling better soon, and that the thug gets his comeuppance.


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## Banjo (9 Oct 2017)

GWS bpsmith What an utter animal.
You did the right thing in not reacting to his threats so you didnt lower yourself to his level .


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## Scoosh (9 Oct 2017)

! GWS @bpsmith and I hope the bike is not too badly damaged and you can get back in the saddle soon.


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## Phaeton (9 Oct 2017)

Have the Police turned up yet?


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## Drago (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4990447, member: 9609"]what happens in a situation like this with the regard to the police investigating? lets assume the mans children aged 8 & 12 were in the car; would the police ask them what had happened? in many respects they could be very good honest witnesses, but on the other hand it would just seem wrong to involve them.[/QUOTE]

The 8 year old, no. That would require a specialist vulwit interview, and because of the scarcity of qualified D's that would be reserved for murder case, terrorism jobs etc.

The 12 year old, perhaps, if he is of normal development and learning for his years. However, I doubt the Father will give premission for obvious reasons, and they're unlikely to try and get a Court Order compelling him to grant such permission for what the CPS will almost certainly label a S4 public order job, with a bit if criminal damage thrown in. You might get a CPS prosecutor who'll run with careless or dangerous, butnim my experience that'd be unlikely, though not impossible 

Sounds as if the OP has witnesses, so if they're credible (ie, recently convicted of fraud, theft or a dishonesty offence) then gaining an independent account should be straightforward.


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> The 8 year old, no. That would require a specialist vulwit interview, and because of the scarcity of qualified D's that would be reserved for murder case, terrorism jobs etc.
> 
> The 12 year old, perhaps, if he is of normal development and learning for his years. However, I doubt the Father will give premission for obvious reasons, and they're unlikely to try and get a Court Order compelling him to grant such permission for what the CPS will almost certainly label a S4 public order job, with a bit if criminal damage thrown in. You might get a CPS prosecutor who'll run with careless or dangerous, butnim my experience that'd be unlikely, though not impossible
> 
> Sounds as if the OP has witnesses, so if they're credible (ie, recently convicted of fraud, theft or a dishonesty offence) then gaining an independent account should be straightforward.


Don't you mean not recently convicted


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## Drago (9 Oct 2017)

Ha ha, yes,!


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> Ha ha, yes,!


How many villains got off because of your 'not' amnesia?


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> How many villains got off because of your 'not' amnesia?


He's suffering from manflu!


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## Drago (9 Oct 2017)

I am at deaths door you know!


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> I am at deaths door you know!


What a load of bolllox


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## RoubaixCube (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4990447, member: 9609"]what happens in a situation like this with the regard to the police investigating? lets assume the mans children aged 8 & 12 were in the car; would the police ask them what had happened? in many respects they could be very good honest witnesses, but on the other hand it would just seem wrong to involve them.[/QUOTE]

Probably take a witness statement but nothing that should be taken 100% seriously. but my point being is that he's a father with young children in the back and he's setting a bad example for them about how they should behave. There are people who dont care what their kids see mind you.

its like if you grow up in a home where domestic abuse is something that happens everyday, you grow up to think domestic abuse is somewhat acceptable when its really not.

On a side note. If this man really is a nobber in every meaning and sense of the word then i sincerely hope they take his kids away. Maybe he'll get his act together after that.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Presumably his 'missus' would be a witness? Assuming she's not mute, hence not saying anything (probably also scared witless)


Not the best word to use, I must admit, but don’t know if it was his Wife or not.


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## BurningLegs (9 Oct 2017)

This sounds like a shocking incident, @bpsmith - I hope you're feeling okay about it psychologically. I think I would be really worried and frankly scared of gooing back out on the roads after something like this.

All the best with getting everything sorted here, but I think this could be a long journey! I've got everything crossed for you on this end.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

Phaeton said:


> Have the Police turned up yet?


No. Had no further contact from them. I called 101 for an update and they say that they can’t tell me anything, as the PC needs to speak to me. I asked when that would be and they couldn’t tell me. They said that someone tried to ring me twice this morning, but no answer. I have perfect signal at work, and no voicemail or missed calls. I tried calling the PC who said they were on their way, but no answer. Not the best example of service. I am trying to remain positive, but rather disappointed so far.


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> Probably take a witness statement but nothing that should be taken 100% seriously. but my point being is that he's a father with young children in the back and he's setting a bad example for them about how they should behave. There are people who dont care what their kids see mind you.
> 
> its like if you grow up in a home where domestic abuse is something that happens everyday, you grow up to think domestic abuse is somewhat acceptable when its really not.
> 
> On a side note. If this man really is a nobber in every meaning and sense of the word then i sincerely hope they take his kids away. Maybe he'll get his act together after that.


Reading the OP, psycho-driver seemed to care when he thought the horrid cyclist  had scared his precious rugrat cargo but didn't seem to care less when he tried to run over @bpsmith

An out of control lunatic it seems!


----------



## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> No. Had no further contact from them. I called 101 for an update and they say that they can’t tell me anything, as the PC needs to speak to me. I asked when that would be and they couldn’t tell me. They said that someone tried to ring me twice this morning, but no answer. I have perfect signal at work, and no voicemail or missed calls. I tried calling the PC who said they were on their way, but no answer. Not the best example of service. I am trying to remain positive, but rather disappointed so far.


Have they got the correct telephone number for you. They're not calling a similar number leaving messages saying they've tried to contact you?

Ask what number they're using to try and contact you on, the next time you speak to them.


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## Thorn Sherpa (9 Oct 2017)

Glad your ok, dangerous and stupid behaviour on the drivers part luckily your not seriously injured. Like others have said the worst part is that he's followed you and carried this on its not been an accident or heat of the moment action. I'd definitely get in touch with the police, somebody who carries on like this will end up seriously hurting or killing someone.


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## NickNick (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I was calm throughout and didn’t swear back. I was shocked that he had 2 very young kids in the car with only basic booster seats that are too old for them. More shocked that his missus didn’t speak or even look at me throughout.



With regards to this and speaking from personal experience, the reason she won't have said or done anything or even looked at you, is because she has to live with and try and protect her kids from, that brutish ######## who is almost certainly abusive based on how he treated you.

Edit to add: Sorry to hear you've gone through that though, its absolutly horrific being caught up in an incident with someone like that, let alone when they can use their car as a weapon and you have zero protection. Best of luck and hope he gets his comeuppance!


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## jefmcg (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4990305, member: 9609"]If this had been someone with a baseball bat[/QUOTE]
Such a good analogy. Imagine a man pursuing someone on foot because of he didn't like the way he looked at him, knocking him down down with the bat, and then proceeding to destroy the bicycle with it, in front his terrified children. It would be on the cover of every tabloid, and a chief inspector would be liaising with the press.


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## BurningLegs (9 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Such a good analogy. Imagine a man pursuing someone on foot because of he didn't like the way he looked at him, knocking him down down with the bat, and then proceeding to destroy the bicycle with it, in front his terrified children. It would be on the cover of every tabloid, and a chief inspector would be liaising with the press.



Absolutely. Can you imagine the manpower that would go into finding the thug?

Depressing, really.


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## NickNick (9 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Such a good analogy. Imagine a man pursuing someone on foot because of he didn't like the way he looked at him, knocking him down down with the bat, and then proceeding to destroy the bicycle with it, in front his terrified children. It would be on the cover of every tabloid, and a chief inspector would be liaising with the press.



Yep and there'd would also be strong calls for getting social services involved, as someone so violent, who is happy to use a weapon & violence against another (especially in front of his own young kids), is not fit to be a parent and at the very least needs strong supervision to make sure that violence isn't also turned on his wife&or kids.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Have they got the correct telephone number for you. They're not calling a similar number leaving messages saying they've tried to contact you?
> 
> Ask what number they're using to try and contact you on, the next time you speak to them.


They have called me yesterday on the number I gave them, so must be correct. I also confirmed this with them at 13:30 today and gave work telephone number up until 4pm. Still no response.

EDIT: Called 101 again and they have no real update. The PC that ended up with the case works from 10pm, so it doesn't seem likely that they will be able to speak to the "gentleman" concerned at that time, just like last night. Not the PC's fault, I hasten to add.

I don't want to have to keep ringing to resolve this, so please comment if I am being unreasonable as to my expectations in getting this resolved.

The guys at my local Giant Shop are going to take a look at it at lunchtime tomorrow. A number of them cycle with people I know, so it's almost a favour really. I will put the business their way if I can though, or at the very least stock up their biscuit supplies.


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## vickster (9 Oct 2017)

I'm not familiar with such things but can you not speak to the officer's supervisor or another more senior officer during a time that would suit you, i.e. Not after 10pm?

Presumably at the moment, as your statement hasn't been taken, the police aren't aware of the seriousness of (and thus perhaps aren't minimising) what happened as the discussion above around baseball bat analogy seems to suggest?

Personally I'd want the statement taken face to face at home or the cop shop

Any news from BC/LD?


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## 400bhp (9 Oct 2017)

Not good any of this.

How come you know where he lives?

What's clear from this thread is that there clearly isn't an easy process to bring this to its correct conclusion, ie the individual severly punished. There are so many questions from the OP and others and differing answers from others, both in terms of what to do, what the police are/aren't doing/likely outcome.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> I'm not familiar with such things but can you not speak to the officer's supervisor or another more senior officer during a time that would suit you, i.e. Not after 10pm?
> 
> Presumably at the moment, as your statement hasn't been taken, the police aren't aware of the seriousness of (and thus perhaps aren't minimising) what happened as the discussion above around baseball bat analogy seems to suggest?
> 
> ...


I explained everything when I first rang them, so they do have a pretty good picture of the incident. Definitely want to give a full statement face to face though.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

400bhp said:


> Not good any of this.
> 
> How come you know where he lives?
> 
> What's clear from this thread is that there clearly isn't an easy process to bring this to its correct conclusion, ie the individual severly punished. There are so many questions from the OP and others and differing answers from others, both in terms of what to do, what the police are/aren't doing/likely outcome.


He left the car door blocking most of the road, whilst outside his house. Car has been there since late afternoon yesterday. It's not far from where I live and I have to drive past to get home.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

I don't think you're being unreasonable in wanting to get something done.

In the meantime, when you hand your bike over, say why and tell them no work on it at present. if you've put any notes on paper, have them ready when giving your statement.

One criticism. You shown the photo of the damage to one leg, with nothing for comparison. Could you not get both legs in the same picture.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991037, member: 9609"]go to the police station and sit in reception until you get some action.[/QUOTE]
At the least produce your insurance details, as required.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

400bhp said:


> Not good any of this.
> 
> How come you know where he lives?
> 
> What's clear from this thread is that there clearly isn't an easy process to bring this to its correct conclusion, ie the individual severly punished. There are so many questions from the OP and others and differing answers from others, both in terms of what to do, what the police are/aren't doing/likely outcome.


He's been involved in an incident with the vehicle, he can put a request into the DVLA(DVLS?) for the details of the owner.

That's what I ended up doing, having seen the car that hit me by chance parked outside a house. I also went through the local phonebook to get a name and number for the address. Leaving a number on which the owner could contact me(she never did return the call).


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## Levo-Lon (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Did you read the post?



Yes read all of it now. I still think your a Saint, id have been arrested after that


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> I don't think you're being unreasonable in wanting to get something done.
> 
> In the meantime, when you hand your bike over, say why and tell them no work on it at present. if you've put any notes on paper, have them ready when giving your statement.
> 
> One criticism. You shown the photo of the damage to one leg, with nothing for comparison. Could you not get both legs in the same picture.


They are going to look st the bike during my lunch hour, so no work will be done. Cheers for the heads up though.

My legs are so big that I can’t get both of them in one shot.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> They are going to look st the bike during my lunch hour, so no work will be done. Cheers for the heads up though.
> *
> My legs are so big that I can’t get both of them in one shot. *


Hold the camera a bit further away, or get someone else to take the picture!


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## CopperBrompton (9 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Asking British Cycling is a thought, but as there's no personal injury the claim may not amount to much, which in turn means their solicitors may not be very interested in it.



I can confirm: while they will handle a non-injury case, they are profoundly uninterested and you'll have to chase them every step of the way. I honestly think I'd have been better off going the small-claims route. I didn't renew with BC and joined LCC instead as a direct result of the piss-poor service offered by their solicitors.


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## Ste T. (9 Oct 2017)

Reading the thread makes me inclined to get a camera.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991037, member: 9609"]go to the police station and sit in reception until you get some action.[/QUOTE]
That will be my only choice tomorrow I think, depending on the night shift PC tonight.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> That will be my only choice tomorrow I think, depending on the night shift PC tonight.


Remember to get the collision number. If there isn't one, there's a strong chance that it'll not have been recorded as happening.

I learnt that last bit the hard way, over six months after being hit.


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## Drago (9 Oct 2017)

It depends which software suite the force is using. About half have now moved on to NICHE with gives all incidents of any kind an occurrence number, so you would no longer get a separate identifier for a collision.


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## bpsmith (9 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Remember to get the collision number. If there isn't one, there's a strong chance that it'll not have been recorded as happening.
> 
> I learnt that last bit the hard way, over six months after being hit.


I have the call log reference and was given a separate crime number earlier.

Managed to speak to the PC who was diverted to another call yesterday. She said it’s with the other PC now, who is a road traffic accident officer. She did give me a direct extn for their supervisor, but they are not answering.

I rang 101 again and spoke to someone for an update. They advised me that there have been updates but that they cannot tell me anything. They advised that it’s now been passed to the divisional unit and I may get a call in 24-48 hours! When asked, they couldn’t guarantee that though. I was also told that if I went to the main police station there would be no guarantee of being able to speak to anyone about this.

Is this really the way things are supposed to work? Totally disenchanted, despite trying very hard consider how busy they must be with limited resources.

I may not turn down an ambulance if anything happens again. What a waste of resource that would be though.

There is honestly no wonder that criminals don’t feel worried about doing exactly what they please!?!

EDIT: This isn’t a pop at any individuals involved, or at any police officers in general btw. More at the system as I am sure that I will get somewhere once I actually get to talk to someone. Fingers crossed.


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## classic33 (9 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> It depends which software suite the force is using. About half have now moved on to NICHE with gives all incidents of any kind an occurrence number, so you would no longer get a separate identifier for a collision.


Local one still records RTA's/RTI's with a seperate number.


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## Lozz360 (9 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Presumably his 'missus' would be a witness? Assuming she's not mute, hence not saying anything (probably also scared witless)


If they are married then she won't need to testify against her husband under UK law.

Truly shocking story. I do so hope appropriate justice is served on the perp.


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## Pale Rider (10 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991531, member: 9609"]@Drago would an incident like this be subject to NIP ?
if so then time is of the essence, if the police faff about for 14 days then no charges can be brought - It just demonstrates what a parallel universe motoring crime exists in, I can't thing of any other crime that you could commit where the police only have 14 days after which you have got away with it.[/QUOTE]

Given we are looking at dangerous drive or possibly one of the assault charges, Notices of Intended Prosecution (NIPs) don't come into it.

On a separate point, there is political pressure on coppers not to leave suspects on bail for months on end.

The thinking being a suspect should know sooner rather than later if he is to be charged. 

It appears the OP has been told 'there have been updates', but not what they are.

It may be the police have already been to see the driver, and, to use the modern phrase, 'bailed him under investigation'.

Whatever, there is no strict legal pressure of time on the police at this stage.


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## Drago (10 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991531, member: 9609"]@Drago would an incident like this be subject to NIP ?
if so then time is of the essence, if the police faff about for 14 days then no charges can be brought - It just demonstrates what a parallel universe motoring crime exists in, I can't thing of any other crime that you could commit where the police only have 14 days after which you have got away with it.[/QUOTE]One would hope he'd be arrested because there's a public order element in his behaviour.


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## Crankarm (10 Oct 2017)

I have to say the police are so pathetic I wouldn't have even bothered involving them I would have just decked the moron and claimed self defence if he had the audacity to make a claim of assault. I would now make a complaint to the IPCC owing to the dreadful service you have received from the police. I would contact BC to get a solicitor on board. Presumably you have the reg of the car and good description if not the name of the moron who ran you over damaged your bike and injured you? Give this all to the solicitor who can take over from you and get results as sure as hell the police won't give you the driver's insurance details citing Data Protection which is what the b******s did to me some years ago when I was knocked down by a chav in an Astra. I would drop any expectations you might still have of the police being of any assistance. they are frankly bloody useless unless it suits them i.e. one of their own is injured or threatened. The police are only concerned with criminal acts but if they CBA then proceed sharpish with a civil claim for damages against the driver and as other's have said make use of British Cycling and their solicitors to take this on for you. In the mean time pour some rotten milk in the heater vents of his car. What he did to you must have been terrifying and no copper or court is ever going to deal with him with sufficient severity if it were ever to get that far which judging by the pathetic response to you so far is highly unlikely to happen.
Do you have a head cam Go Pro or similar? Names and contact details of witnesses?


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## mjr (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I may not turn down an ambulance if anything happens again. What a waste of resource that would be though.


Not entirely. It would probably have saved the trip to A&E and lots of chasing the police up. People shouldn't worry about calling them for things like this, as they'll be diverted to more urgent cases if needed.

I'm less comfortable with the occasional suggestion that you remain in the road until the ambulance arrives even when reasonably able to move, but stories like this make that approach understandable IMO.


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## mjr (10 Oct 2017)

Ste T. said:


> Reading the thread makes me inclined to get a camera.


It's why I did, about a decade ago. Make sure you know the police requirements for camera footage: ideally, correct timestamp on the image and store the card with the incident on, not only the file.


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## Crankarm (10 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Not entirely. It would probably have saved the trip to A&E and lots of chasing the police up. People shouldn't worry about calling them for things like this, as they'll be diverted to more urgent cases if needed.
> 
> I'm less comfortable with the occasional suggestion that you remain in the road until the ambulance arrives even when reasonably able to move, but stories like this make that approach understandable IMO.



I would get out the road sharpish if you can as when I was knocked down in jan 2010 two cars driven by chav morons deliberately drove at me as I lay writhing in pain the occupants shouting at me to get out the road!


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2017)

That, Crankarm has to be the most unhelpful post on this thread.

And that's coming from a person who bought an industrial wheel clamp(albeit secondhand) with the intention of using it to do to the owner what they allowed done to me. Denial of their transport, having made certain the police knew of my intentions.

Comma added after "That"(first word) in edit.


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Not entirely. It would probably have saved the trip to A&E and lots of chasing the police up. People shouldn't worry about calling them for things like this, as they'll be diverted to more urgent cases if needed.
> *
> I'm less comfortable with the occasional suggestion that you remain in the road until the ambulance arrives even when reasonably able to move, but stories like this make that approach understandable IMO.*


Who's made and where, the suggestion that he should stay in the road until the ambulance arrives. Of the top of my head the advice given in the thread is "move, if you can do so without further injury to yourself".

I'm a frequent, if not voluntary user of the ambulance service/A&E over the years, and I'd like to think I'm not abusing either service if I can help matters. That includes when others have had to call them for me. The last time being me in the road, blocking traffic, completly unaware, until much later.


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## mjr (10 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Who's made and where, the suggestion that he should stay in the road until the ambulance arrives. Of the top of my head the advice given in the thread is "move, if you can do so without further injury to yourself".


Not him specifically but you know people advise staying in the road as you replied to one in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/b...yers-any-recommendations-or-avoidance.218578/ and it's not only this forum where it's suggested. I don't think merely calling an ambulance after being run over and unsure if injured is an abuse.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2017)

Staying in the road sounds pretty dangerous and daft unless you can't move. I couldn't get out of the road quickly enough when I was knocked off just after a very busy junction on a very busy road. And I potentially had a broken leg - not that I knew that at that point in time, self preservation was the only thing on my mind!

And I'd not been deliberately run over by a road rage motorist


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## Drago (10 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991783, member: 9609"]and if he was bigger and tougher than you ?
not every cyclist is the hardest bloke in town, may be that is your problem; the police take one look at you and think to themseves, well he's big enough and tough enough to look after himself?

I think the goal in society is to move on from beating the feck out of each other[/QUOTE]

Kenneth Noye is an outstanding reason not to waste breath, time or even your life exchanging words with road idiots. Google brings up dozens of road rage murderers names, but Noye is a text book example as to no matter how big, hard or scary you are, there is always some psychopath more dangerous than you.


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> I guess I'd still worry about their safety when their dad has such anger issues.


Definitely, yes - the police really should follow up that angle.


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I rang 101 again and spoke to someone for an update. They advised me that there have been updates but that they cannot tell me anything. They advised that it’s now been passed to the divisional unit and I may get a call in 24-48 hours! When asked, they couldn’t guarantee that though. I was also told that if I went to the main police station there would be no guarantee of being able to speak to anyone about this.
> 
> Is this really the way things are supposed to work? Totally disenchanted, despite trying very hard consider how busy they must be with limited resources.


If they say there have been updates, they may well have actually been working on it while you've been waiting for the call. And the police are often very limited in what they can tell the involved parties, especially in the early stages - they have to be very careful not to reveal anything that could jeopardize any possible court case.


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## bpsmith (10 Oct 2017)

Alan O said:


> If they say there have been updates, they may well have actually been working on it while you've been waiting for the call. And the police are often very limited in what they can tell the involved parties, especially in the early stages - they have to be very careful not to reveal anything that could jeopardize any possible court case.


I agree. My gut reaction was always that they have been doing something about it. I tried to convey that throughout the above posts. The frustration is having no feedback or update since they said they were coming to see me an hour after the incident.

I have finally managed to get an element of an update. A supervisor has advised me to call the Sergeant for my local area at 22:30. She advised that he will be able to discuss it fully with me.

She didn’t want to tell me anything as she “didn’t want to give me false hope if she didn’t have the full facts”. Call me optimistic, but that suggests that I may be happy with whatever is available to her on screen?

Will hopefully find out later.

Bike is at the shop now too. At face value, they thought the frame is intact, but will check it out and create a list of parts needed for me.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2017)

What have BC/LD said?


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## Nonethewiser (10 Oct 2017)

This is awful and obviously that character has serious anger management issues. Mercifully he didn't cause you serious harm. It's possible his wife/partner didn't react because a) she was stunned into silence as she'd never seen him act in such a way or b) she's been on the receiving end of his anger on a number of occasions and is scared to death of him. Had I behaved in such a manner, my wife would have stormed out of the car, kicked me in the crown jewels, given you every assistance and then shopped me to the cops before issuing divorce proceedings. GWS and I hope you can resolve this upsetting incident to your satisfaction asap.


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## boydj (10 Oct 2017)

In terms of dealing with the police, it can be difficult to get hold of individual officers due to shifts and work priorities. What I did last year after an incident was to get the e-mail address of the officer dealing with the case. I then wrote out a full statement and e-mailed it to the officer and he was able to deal with it at a convenient time. With e-mail you have a record of any discussions and it takes some pressure off everybody - you don't need a face-to-face with the officer if you can give a detailed statement in writing, and the officer will appreciate the time saved in not having to visit or have you attend so a statement can be taken. Having the facts and noting the seriousness of the incident will hopefully spur some further action.


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## bpsmith (10 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> What have BC/LD said?


I haven’t called them yet. Want to give the Police one last chance, so I know what to tell BC. Will see later.


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I haven’t called them yet. Want to give the Police one last chance, so I know what to tell BC. Will see later.


Tell them what you've said here, no real response from them. A call/letter from them, on your behalf, may just get the information required.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I haven’t called them yet. Want to give the Police one last chance, so I know what to tell BC. Will see later.


The police element is irrelevant to getting the damages claim underway but your choice 

I just provided the statement I completed for the police when it was available. It has no bearing on the legal case. The important thing is to get the driver to admit liability but that doesn't happen until all paperwork ready


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2017)

@bpsmith, I went three years with the police not wanting to get involved with a cyclist. Like you I gave them chances to get things done. @vickster is correct in what she's said, getting any claim underway doesn't require police involvement.


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## bpsmith (10 Oct 2017)

Have just spoken to the Sergeant. He was relatively unaware of the details but said he will be discussing this with the PC who I spoke to on Sunday. They are going to review the notes tonight and call me tomorrow evening to advise exactly where we stand.

At that point I will ask for an email address and put this all in writing, albeit electronically, as suggested above.

I am going to get my own statement on paper and then ring BC tomorrow to get that started too @vickster.

The list of parts to replace comes to around £800, at full RRP which is what they use for insurance purposes.

The good news is that I have a spare set of wheels and can source a rear derailleur on loan too. Aside from cosmetics, I can get the bike roadworthy for the price of a rear hanger.

The frame is completely solid with no marks on it, aside from a couple of grazes inside the chain and seat stays. The question is whether it’s fair for me to have to accept that.

EDIT: Pleased to add that I am watching the final climb on Milan-Torino on Eurosport and can’t wait to eat bavk out there once the swelling eases. No sign of anxiety whatsoever.


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## classic33 (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Have just spoken to the Sergeant. He was relatively unaware of the details but said he will be discussing this with the PC who I spoke to on Sunday. They are going to review the notes tonight and call me tomorrow evening to advise exactly where we stand.
> 
> At that point I will ask for an email address and put this all in writing, albeit electronically, as suggested above.
> 
> ...


Have a look at Vikeonabike statement guide and consider using that as your template. Fill in the blanks to match your case.

You'll be down a set of spare wheels though, and I'd not be tempted to ride the same bike again, until you contact BC and hear from them on the legal side. 

It is only a bike after all!


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## alicat (10 Oct 2017)

It's an awful thing to have happened to you @bpsmith. Keep on at the police so this nutter can't carry on doing that kind of thing.


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## Pale Rider (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Have just spoken to the Sergeant. He was relatively unaware of the details but said he will be discussing this with the PC who I spoke to on Sunday. They are going to review the notes tonight and call me tomorrow evening to advise exactly where we stand.
> 
> At that point I will ask for an email address and put this all in writing, albeit electronically, as suggested above.
> 
> ...



I tend to look at the worst case scenario, and hopefully work up from there.

The worst case here is that when all comes to all you can get nothing on insurance.

The fact you can get a roadworthy bike again at little cost is therefore good news, and there is a reasonable expectation the outcome will be better than that.

Although fair it is not.

At the risk of over-analysing, I'd have liked to have heard a bit more enthusiasm from the sergeant you spoke to tonight.

But it may be he is just being honest and straightforward with you, which is to be admired.

Given that it's not easy to guide coppers in the direction you want them to go, I think you are doing pretty well so far.


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## bpsmith (10 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> I tend to look at the worst case scenario, and hopefully work up from there.
> 
> The worst case here is that when all comes to all you can get nothing on insurance.
> 
> ...


Strangely enough, after taking a step back and thinking about it today, I had come to pretty much the same conclusion when talking to my Wife this evening.

It’s just a bike and one that I could ride again for reasonable outlay. 2 days of stressing and over analysing has got me nowhere, so totally agree with you.

I was open and honest on the phone to the Sergeant, without being judgemental about where I perceived the situation to be at present, so I think he followed suit and gave me the same courtesy. Can’t argue at that respect.


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## Pale Rider (10 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I was open and honest on the phone to the Sergeant, without being judgemental about where I perceived the situation to be at present, so I think he followed suit and gave me the same courtesy. Can’t argue it that respect.



That is all you can do.

There's an old saying about worrying about the things you can effect, but not the things you can't.

Give the police your side of it, don't minimise it, but don't over play it either.

What they do with it is up to them.


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## bpsmith (11 Oct 2017)

Local PCSO has called me to get exact location of incident, so they can knock doors for witnesses today.


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## alicat (11 Oct 2017)

Phew, glad they are starting to do something.


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## Tim Hall (11 Oct 2017)

Glad it sounds like progress is being made. How's the injury?


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## RoubaixCube (11 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4993861, member: 9609"]Is that even a proper policeman ?[/QUOTE]

When the force has endured so many cuts to its budget/funding. Even having PCSO to go door to door getting witness statements is better then them sitting on their arse and doing nothing about the incident at all.

Be a little thankful here.


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## jefmcg (11 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4993861, member: 9609"]Is that even a proper policeman ?[/QUOTE]
View: https://youtu.be/xAdE_kMjerU


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## Drago (11 Oct 2017)

PCSO's can identify witnesses and gather their details, but can't take statements. They're neither trained nor accredited to do so.

The only exception is when gathering evidence of ASB.


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## Alan O (11 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4993861, member: 9609"]Is that even a proper policeman ?[/QUOTE]
I think they're often unfairly maligned - they can do a great groundwork job where full police powers aren't needed.


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## jefmcg (11 Oct 2017)

Actually, from the information the OP has been given, all we know for sure is a PCSO made the call to him. They may easily pass the info on to an officer who will do the actual knocking.


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## 400bhp (11 Oct 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> When the force has endured so many cuts to its budget/funding. Even having PCSO to go door to door getting witness statements is better then them sitting on their arse and doing nothing about the incident at all.
> 
> Be a little thankful here.


And that particular job [door knocking] is the type of stuff they should be doing as it’s largely a form of admin.


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## bpsmith (11 Oct 2017)

Cheers for the posts everyone. Leg is a touch less painful today. Still swollen to a circumference 2.5cm more than the other leg. My workmate said it looks like I’ve got muscles now...one leg at least. 

Anyway, just got back from my local police station. In a nutshell, I have given a full statement and they have had contact from the guy, after the put a note through the door late on Sunday. They are going to phone him now and send someone around tomorrow if no answer tonight. The PCSO got no witnesses from the other houses. Plenty said they heard the shouting and the bang, but none prepared to get involved. I have given the details of the 2 households that saw it happen. They are going to ask for statements, but warned that some won’t do it once they hear that they may need to go to court.

As far as classification is concerned, the regional support have decided that it can’t be a Road Traffic Incident as I have described the incident as a deliberate unprovoked attack with intent. They have it down as a Public Order Offence. This can change depending on what he says and also the witnesses, but it means I can’t attempt to claim via his car insurance presently.

Have sent through photo’s and can get the bike repaired at my leisure. They have warned me that it isn’t likely to be quick getting resolved.

No hurry, as can’t even wear a sock at this point.

Have been busy in work, so not had a chance to contact BC yet. That’s next on my agenda.


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## bpsmith (11 Oct 2017)

Further to the above, I think we should all respect the PCSO’s, in fairness. With the cutbacks on Police Officers, there would be no time for them to actually police if the PCSO’s weren’t there for the nitty gritty admin stuff. Respect is due in my mind.


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## Drago (11 Oct 2017)

My guess is he gets charged with S4POA and criminal damage. Any takers?


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## classic33 (11 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Further to the above, I think we should all respect the PCSO’s, in fairness. With the cutbacks on Police Officers, there would be no time for them to actually police if the PCSO’s weren’t there for the nitty gritty admin stuff. Respect is due in my mind.


Local Town Centre is controlled by one. You know when he's not on.


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## Andrew_P (11 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> My guess is he gets charged with S4POA and criminal damage. Any takers?


If I knew I would comment on that, my wager would be zero zilch, no witnesses.


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## bpsmith (11 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> If I knew I would comment on that, my wager would be zero zilch, no witnesses.


Aside from the 2 households that witnessed opposite the event. They have only just been given the contact details tonight. They were not there when the PCSO visited.

Obviously, that’s assuming the commit to a statement as may not want to get involved.


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## classic33 (11 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> My guess is he gets charged with S4POA and criminal damage. Any takers?


No chance. Attacked(at work) and ended up in the local A&E, following repeated kicks to the head. £80 fine(planned) plus victim surcharge, doubled on the spot when the judge learnt I'd asked for any money awarded be donated to MacMillan Cancer & Marie Curie.


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## bpsmith (11 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> My guess is he gets charged with S4POA and criminal damage. Any takers?


What’s the penance for that, if there has been no previous offences? Just a fine and pay damages?


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## classic33 (11 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Aside from the 2 households that witnessed opposite the event. They have only just been given the contact details tonight. They were not there when the PCSO visited.
> 
> Obviously, that’s assuming the commit to a statement as may not want to get involved.


Simple question of "did they say or hear anything" can give a non committal answer confirming they heard/saw something happen, but not what.


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## Andrew_P (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Aside from the 2 households that witnessed opposite the event. They have only just been given the contact details tonight. They were not there when the PCSO visited.
> 
> Obviously, that’s assuming the commit to a statement as may not want to get involved.


I think they will not give one or if they do be vague, its local the bloke is proven unstable and aggressive. Maybe I have too little faith in human nature. Still wouldn't be sure if any action with a witness. Guessing that's what @Drago is alluding to. A minor charge and a small fine as long as he pleads guilty. Way to much aggro and you are still standing relatively uninjured "just a bit of property damage". It what I meant earlier things done in a car appear to be taken less seriously than other acts of violence or intimidation witness or no witness. I have said, and have seen it said if you wanted to do a one off hit for cash, as long as no connection to the victim, do it with a car. Might get a ban, and less than a year in clink or scott free.

I have seen on forums quite serious bike collisions with cars where there is clear fault go uncharged.


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## Drago (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> What’s the penance for that, if there has been no previous offences? Just a fine and pay damages?



IIRC correctly, up to 6 months in prison. Courts tend to take a dim view of that one so tend to punish pretty firmly for it, although it hinges on what precons he may or may not already have.


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## 400bhp (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> As far as classification is concerned, the regional support have decided that it can’t be a Road Traffic Incident as I have described the incident as a deliberate unprovoked attack with intent. They have it down as a Public Order Offence



That sounds good.

And to those speculating on whether or not witnesses will come forward, why speculate? It's pointless and negative.


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## 400bhp (12 Oct 2017)

Yes I get all that, it's just depressing that the glass half empty brigade jump in and pour cold water on it.

It's a result that they are not treating it as a road traffic offence. Baby steps and all that. I'd like @bpsmith to explain (when he's ready) the reasons why (with appropriate wording to use if that's available) the police have taken it down the non road offence route. No rush, just when he's ready. The more information and experience we have as cyclists to get incidents treated this way the more likely (in my view) the roads will become safer, within current road legislation.


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## macky (12 Oct 2017)

take some doughnuts round for the police , you might get a response then. 
You need to make the guy pay for his actions. 
Good luck


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## Andrew_P (12 Oct 2017)

400bhp said:


> Yes I get all that, it's just depressing that the glass half empty brigade jump in and pour cold water on it.
> 
> It's a result that they are not treating it as a road traffic offence. Baby steps and all that. I'd like @bpsmith to explain (when he's ready) the reasons why (with appropriate wording to use if that's available) the police have taken it down the non road offence route. No rush, just when he's ready. The more information and experience we have as cyclists to get incidents treated this way the more likely (in my view) the roads will become safer, within current road legislation.


As part of the glass half empty brigade, why do you see it a benefit that it is not being treated as a road traffic incident, after all the main deed was done in the car? I would have thought the chance of his license being endorsed, and or banned would benefit other road users more plus have consequences for him come insurance renewal. Genuinely not picking a fight but I thought it was the Police were taking the route of least resistance.


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## mjr (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> They have it down as a Public Order Offence. This can change depending on what he says and also the witnesses, but it means I can’t attempt to claim via his car insurance presently.


I think you could claim via his public liablity insurance (probably part of his household insurance) so it's still worth contacting BC or whoever you're going to use and setting things in motion. Who covers the cost of the damage he's caused is his problem more than yours.


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## Pale Rider (12 Oct 2017)

It doesn't matter what the police think for the purposes of a car insurance claim.

If it was a genuine accident, the police wouldn't think anything of it, but the insurance claim would still proceed. 

The driver either damaged the bike with his car, or he did not.

A related criminal conviction of the driver would be strong support for the insurance claim, but it is not critical to it.

If it were me, I would pay four quid to AskMid, get the driver's insurance details, and claim directly from them.


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## oldfatfool (12 Oct 2017)

Get the Gene genie on the case, full confession in minutes.


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## vickster (12 Oct 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> It doesn't matter what the police think for the purposes of a car insurance claim.
> 
> If it was a genuine accident, the police wouldn't think anything of it, but the insurance claim would still proceed.
> 
> ...


I think LD will get insurance details if you have the reg. I didn't know which company the driver who knocked me off is with. It wasn't even on my radar to ask at the scene!


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> IIRC correctly, up to 6 months in prison. Courts tend to take a dim view of that one so tend to punish pretty firmly for it, although it hinges on what precons he may or may not already have.


That’s the rub for me. On the one hand, he could be doing this all the time and/or might be more serious next time. On the other hand, it might be a one off. There’s no way of really knowing though.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

As for the bike. I need a barrel adjuster for the Iltegra rear derailleur and a new hanger. I will try straightening the current one, as I have the right tool, but it’s been done once before so likely brittle now.

Both ordered for £25.

Also need a new tyre, but have a spare one that I can use temporarily to test the derailleur out first.

Mentally, I need to put it right, even if cosmetically it isn’t perfect just yet.


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## classic33 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> As for the bike. I need a barrel adjuster for the Iltegra rear derailleur and a new hanger. I will try straightening the current one, as I have the right tool, but it’s been done once before so likely brittle now.
> 
> Both ordered for £25.
> 
> ...


Make no repairs just yet. Use a seperate bike if possible.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

Regardless of what the police do, it's been reported, and you don't need the police for an insurance claim.

The guy has caused damage to property regardless of the cost, he should pay.

I was in the wrong place and wrong time recently in my car, some tool came round a corner way too fast while I was entering my driveway, he swerved across the road and caused damage to his car, the crash investigator measured everything and said the guy was totally speeding, my insurance deemed me to the obstacle, even though I had done nothing wrong and paid out, I have zero tolerance to people who cause themselves or others damage because they're idiots, or inconsiderate road users.

My take on this is don't spend anything, make this guy fork out.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Make no repairs just yet. Use a seperate bike if possible.



Any reason why? I just assumed that taking photo’s would be enough?


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## jefmcg (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Any reason why? I just assumed that taking photo’s would be enough?


You've got free legal advice thru BC. Use it.


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## vickster (12 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> You've got free legal advice thru BC. Use it.


This in spades! Do not pay to have anything done without their agreement and probably a written report from several LBS. Get their advice and permission to proceed if they are able to give that (might need agreement from 3rd party insurer)

Of course, Go ahead if you can't wait, are happy to pay but not get money back. You might be fine with that if it's only £25. Damage to property and injury claims are kept separate


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## macky (12 Oct 2017)

^^^^^^^johnno260
I'd have told my insurance not to pay and had my day in court.
HE was speeding HE was out of control and HE hit you
If he wasn't speeding he would have been in control and wouldn't have hit you.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Any reason why? I just assumed that taking photo’s would be enough?



I wouldn't touch it in case someone wants to use the bike as evidence.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

Johnno260 said:


> I wouldn't touch it in case someone wants to use the bike as evidence.


Police said carry on as they have the photo evidence.

Will speak to BC first though.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

macky said:


> ^^^^^^^johnno260
> I'd have told my insurance not to pay and had my day in court.
> HE was speeding HE was out of control and HE hit you
> If he wasn't speeding he would have been in control and wouldn't have hit you.



He didn't even hit my car, he avoided me and trashed his own car!

I'm still arguing with my insurance on this but they paid out for "soft tissue damage" he mounted a grass verge, crossed a pavement, scrapped his car against a fence and telegraph pole and stopped 15 metres or more past my driveway, he almost rolled his car as well, I said if it's a whiplash claim there was no sudden stop from the point he saw me to point of stopping is a vast distance.

I told the insurance company they can't cry wolf in the media for false claims if the pay out for blatantly false claims.

It's why I think the OP needs to push for this guy paying out, he is the one that's been attacked, and had property damaged, it's psychos like this that cause the chaos on our roads.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Police said carry on as they have the photo evidence.
> 
> Will speak to BC first though.


 
100% talk to them before you touch anything, they may want it as evidence, or to make an independent evaluation of the damage.

I know you probably want to get it fixed and back on the road ASAP but talk to them first.


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## vickster (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Police said carry on as they have the photo evidence.
> 
> Will speak to BC first though.


You need BC to put you in touch with Leigh Day. BC are just the access to the lawyers, they don't provide the legal advice. Talk to them today and you'll probably hear from LD next week now


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## macky (12 Oct 2017)

Johnno260
That's mental. 
There's a roundabout near me. 4 lanes going into it. 
Lane 1 left turn
Lane 2 straight on
Lane 3 straight on
Lane 4 right turn
All clearly marked on sign post and on the road. 
My mate in lane 4 went right and guy in lane 3 went right. my mate and this guy hit each other side on and insurance went 50/50. How can this be when he's clearly in wrong lane. Ok there's an argument he should have seen him but why look when he shouldn't be there.


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## macky (12 Oct 2017)

I'd also try getting local papers involved. Some legal high flyer might pick up your case if they see it


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## Spinney (12 Oct 2017)

macky said:


> I'd also try getting local papers involved. Some legal high flyer might pick up your case if they see it


Ah, no, might prejudice any court case the police may bring. If the police won't do anything, that might be the time to try involving the press.


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## vickster (12 Oct 2017)

macky said:


> I'd also try getting local papers involved. Some legal high flyer might pick up your case if they see it


Is this for @Johnno260 or @bpsmith ??

@Johnno260 might want to start a new thread and get the mods to move posts across to avoid confusion


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## NickNick (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> That’s the rub for me. On the one hand, he could be doing this all the time and/or might be more serious next time. On the other hand, it might be a one off. There’s no way of really knowing though.



Speaking from the experience of knowing someone (estranged for this and many other reasons, dad) who has such espisodes of violent road rage, I can almost guarantee that he acts like that all the time. Someone who normally acts decently doesn't do something that extreme, they might have a bad day and be rude/unduly aggressive, but they wouldn't act like that.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

@vickster my posts were more as an example for the op to push for the idiot who caused this to pay, I didn't push enough and my situation is the end result, he is the victim here so the nutter who caused this incident should be the one who has to open their wallet, and not the op.

In my eyes the guy who did this should be prosecuted for dangerous driving, intent to harm, and assault with a weapon.


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## classic33 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Any reason why? I just assumed that taking photo’s would be enough?


There can be the argument put forward by his side, that you are exaggertating your claim of the damage caused & cost to repair(even though you went through a bike shop and got their quote for repair).


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## macky (12 Oct 2017)

my comments about local paper was for original thread starter. Sorry for confusion


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## vickster (12 Oct 2017)

macky said:


> my comments about local paper was for original thread starter. Sorry for confusion


Then I'd go with @Spinney advice!


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## Andrew_P (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Police said carry on as they have the photo evidence.
> 
> Will speak to BC first though.


 Definitely worth starting to look at actions you can take yourself, it cannot do any harm. The Police won't be think from a claim POV. Did the bike shop do an insurance write up of the damage? Personally that would be enough for me but I am not a legal wizard. Its fairly easy to start your own county court case for personal and property damage and costs about £30 to kick it off.


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## Andrew_P (12 Oct 2017)

Taking @classic33 point, maybe get the standard 3 quotes like you used to have to for Car repairs. That way the insurer will start somewhere in the middle. Assuming it goes through insurance.


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## mjr (12 Oct 2017)

macky said:


> My mate in lane 4 went right and guy in lane 3 went right. my mate and this guy hit each other side on and insurance went 50/50. How can this be when he's clearly in wrong lane. Ok there's an argument he should have seen him but why look when he shouldn't be there.


Insurance isn't traffic law. Often it's basically the person making the riskier manoeuver who is liable and in that case, they were both turning right and hit side-side, so 50/50 is understandable.

Also, lane markings at junctions aren't mandatory - if they were, they'd have to make sure a max legal HGV can make every permitted movement at every junction, which would make our roads look rather different - so legally you can turn right from the left lane if you think it's safe to do so... but if it goes wrong, you risk being charged with one of the driving-like-a-nobber offences (I forget which one in that example).


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## classic33 (12 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> Taking @classic33 point, maybe get the standard 3 quotes like you used to have to for Car repairs. That way the insurer will start somewhere in the middle. Assuming it goes through insurance.


Being accused of trying to exaggerate the amount being claimed(cost to repair damage caused) was used against me. I'd been seen riding a bike after, whilst it(the write-off) was still in the possession of the bike shop.


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## Spinney (12 Oct 2017)

*Mod note*: can we stick to bpsmith's incident in this thread, please? Rather than getting side-tracked into other incidents.
Thanks.


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## classic33 (12 Oct 2017)

Spinney said:


> *Mod note*: can we stick to bpsmith's incident in this thread, please? Rather than getting side-tracked into other incidents.
> Thanks.


I only used mine as an example as to why he should put off doing anything to the bike.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

Cheers everyone.

I have booked tomorrow off to speak to British Cycling and also chill out. Been proper up tight this week.


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## classic33 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Cheers everyone.
> 
> I have booked tomorrow off to speak to British Cycling and also chill out. Been proper up tight this week.


Bet you could cheerfully go and pull his head off. Won't do any good though.


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## J1888 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Cheers everyone.
> 
> I have booked tomorrow off to speak to British Cycling and also chill out. Been proper up tight this week.



Wise move - take it easy, do something that makes you happy once you've done the BC bit - mine would be catching a movie in an empty cinema then enjoying a pint while reading Private Eye. 

Whatever you do, hopefully you can relax for a bit.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Bet you could cheerfully go and pull his head off. Won't do any good though.


None at all.


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## bpsmith (12 Oct 2017)

J1888 said:


> Wise move - take it easy, do something that makes you happy once you've done the BC bit - mine would be catching a movie in an empty cinema then enjoying a pint while reading Private Eye.
> 
> Whatever you do, hopefully you can relax for a bit.


I have Odeon Limitless...so you never know.


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## Johnno260 (12 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I have Odeon Limitless...so you never know.



Try watching Bladerunner 2059 if you liked the original then, it’s a long film but it will definitely take your mind off things. 

Sorry I used an incident I was involved with as an example, it was meant to be taken as a point to push for this guy to pay, you’re the innocent party in this and it makes my blood boil when I read about things like this happening.


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## 400bhp (12 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> As part of the glass half empty brigade, why do you see it a benefit that it is not being treated as a road traffic incident, after all the main deed was done in the car? I would have thought the chance of his license being endorsed, and or banned would benefit other road users more plus have consequences for him come insurance renewal. Genuinely not picking a fight but I thought it was the Police were taking the route of least resistance.



Because, first and foremost, it was an assualt. The car just happened to be the weapon used.

And no worries, I'm not seeing you picking a fight


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## 400bhp (12 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I think you could claim via his public liablity insurance (probably part of his household insurance) so it's still worth contacting BC or whoever you're going to use and setting things in motion. Who covers the cost of the damage he's caused is his problem more than yours.



I think it wouldn't be covered (negligence and/or criminal) by third party liability.


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

Johnno260 said:


> Try watching Bladerunner 2059 if you liked the original then, it’s a long film but it will definitely take your mind off things.
> 
> Sorry I used an incident I was involved with as an example, it was meant to be taken as a point to push for this guy to pay, you’re the innocent party in this and it makes my blood boil when I read about things like this happening.


I can't remember a lot of the first one, so have just rented that to watch on my AppleTV this afternoon. Decided to go and see the new one with my Dad and Brother early next week.


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

*Update*: I have decided to take the advice received above, and not do anything to the bike at this point. I have just completed the online report form, after speaking to British Cycling first. It seemed easier to do it that way and will await their call back over the next 24 hours or so. Might be Monday now, potentially, but that's fair enough if it is. Just spoke to the shop that I ordered the bits from online and they shipped them late yesterday, but have noted their system to allow me to return the bits if not needed. They are happy for this to be up to 2 months later in the circumstances.

Looking at the weather, it would appear to be an ideal time to take the deep section carbon rims off the other bike and get that more suitable for wet and windy rides, when I am up to riding again. As might be evident from my other posts above, I have been trying to divert my energy to something other than getting anxious/depressed by the whole thing. Focussing on the other bike will be more positive than looking at the damaged bike and not mess up anything with my claim.

Just wanted to say a *BIG THANK YOU* for all of your support and advice too. It's kept me going this week.

If the frame does indeed need replacing, then at least that's one more Matte Black bike off the road, eh @vickster 

Edit: Already had a call back from British Cycling and it has been referred to Leigh Day, who they believe will call me back later. Certainly can't argue with that sort of response time!


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> *Update*: I have decided to take the advice received above, and not do anything to the bike at this point. I have just completed the online report form, after speaking to Births Cycling first. It seemed easier to do it that way and will await their call back over the next 24 hours or so. Might be Monday now, potentially, but that's fair enough if it is. Just spoke to the shop that I ordered the bits from online and they shipped them late yesterday, but have noted their system to allow me to return the bits if not needed. They are happy for this to be up to 2 months later in the circumstances.
> 
> Looking at the weather, it would appear to be an ideal time to take the deep section carbon rims off the other bike and get that more suitable for wet and windy rides, when I am up to riding again. As might be evident from my other posts above, I have been trying to divert my energy to something other than getting anxious/depressed by the whole thing. Focussing on the other bike will be more positive than looking at the damaged bike and not mess up anything with my claim.
> 
> ...


Just one question,


Who's Births Cycling?


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Just one question,
> 
> 
> Who's Births Cycling?


Blinking spellcheck. It did that on my phone yesterday too. Duly corrected.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Blinking spellcheck. It did that on my phone yesterday too. Duly corrected.


Not the name of the bike shop then?


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## mjr (13 Oct 2017)

400bhp said:


> I think it wouldn't be covered (negligence and/or criminal) by third party liability.


I've just checked my policy and the relevant exclusions I found are you can't claim for legal expenses or your own injuries caused by your own criminal act, you can't claim for basically anything covered (or should be covered) by your motoring insurance and you can't claim for losses incurred by your own fraud. It looks like negligence is generally covered, as are injuries caused to others criminally. So you can thank me now for sort-of insuring you all 

Other policies may differ... but as I said earlier, who pays to put things back to how they were isn't really your problem as long as someone does.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> I've just checked my policy and the relevant exclusions I found are you can't claim for legal expenses or your own injuries caused by your own criminal act, you can't claim for basically anything covered (or should be covered) by your motoring insurance and you can't claim for losses incurred by your own fraud. It looks like negligence is generally covered, as are injuries caused to others criminally. So you can thank me now for sort-of insuring you all
> 
> Other policies may differ... but as I said earlier, who pays to put things back to how they were isn't really your problem as long as someone does.


Don't have motor insurance, so that rules out you "sort of insuring" me.


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

Filled out the BC form online and they called back earlier to confirm receipt and that they were forwarding on to Leigh Day. They wanted me to know so that I knew they would call, which is a good thing to do. Didn’t let on that I knew from info here.

Leigh Day then called when I was about to do the School Run and kindly offered to phone back in an hours time.

They were so impressed with the info given that they only needed a few more questions to be answered, which took about 10 mins tops.

Very impressed with the service from both parties. Fair play!

The only downside that they suggested could be an issue is that it’s borderline Civil/Criminal in nature so it’s all dependent on what the insurance say. They will attempt a Civil Claim on my behalf though nonetheless.

It’s in the hands of the Gods now.


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## vickster (13 Oct 2017)

Here's hoping it's resolved quickly

How's the leg?


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## smutchin (13 Oct 2017)

I've never had to use Leigh Day's services myself (and long may it stay that way) but I was talking to their head of cycling recently in a work-related matter and was impressed with what he said, so I hope they live up to that for your sake.

If you want an idea of how seriously they take cycling, one of their team did the Transcontinental Race this year and finished 5th!


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Here's hoping it's resolved quickly
> 
> How's the leg?


The foot is bruised today, but looking at the weird purple colour in a perfect line about a cm from the bottom of my foot, it would appear it’s just the blood dissipating from the bruised area. Sounds worse than it is that bit btw. There’s no pain there and the other areas are feeling a touch better today. Thanks for asking.

The weird bit is when you wake up feeling like it’s a lot better. Get out of bed, then find 4 steps from the bed it’s not, when gravity takes over and the blood flows back.


----------



## classic33 (13 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> The foot is bruised today, but looking at the weird purple colour in a perfect line about a cm from the bottom of my foot, it would appear it’s just the blood dissipating from the bruised area. Sounds worse than it is that bit btw. There’s no pain there and the other areas are feeling a touch better today. Thanks for asking.
> 
> The weird bit is when you wake up feeling like it’s a lot better. Get out of bed, then find 4 steps from the bed it’s not, when gravity takes over and the blood flows back.


Photograph.


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## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Photograph.


Already done.


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## classic33 (13 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Already done.


Meanwhilst on another thread, you seem to have tried losing the support of the good leg. 

I don't know!!


----------



## bpsmith (13 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Meanwhilst on another thread, you seem to have tried losing the support of the good leg.
> 
> I don't know!!


Moved on to the bottle of rather posh Tequila that we brought back from Mexico too.

Only drunk 4 pints in the last 5 weeks...only to obliterate that record in the last 3 hours.


----------



## Nigelnightmare (13 Oct 2017)

All the best with your claim.
If the worst happens and everything goes against you, at least you know his address and car reg No.
"POST IT ONLINE" and I'm sure that _*someone*_ would take it upon themselves to sort it out (tit for tat).

Seriously though DON'T take matters into your *own* hands.


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## bpsmith (14 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4997879, member: 9609"]of Tequila ? [/QUOTE]
4 pints of lager. Would have been interesting if it was Tequila.

Literally had a pint of lager a week. It’s the least I have drank in quite some time in fairness.


----------



## DCBassman (14 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4991037, member: 9609"]go to the police station and sit in reception until you get some action.[/QUOTE]
Do you/does anyone still have a cop shop they can actually go to? Not been one here for years...


----------



## Drago (14 Oct 2017)

Yes, I know all mine.


----------



## Drago (14 Oct 2017)

Even if its closed the intercom almost always goes through to control room, who can advise you of opening times, take your details for a future call back, or maybe even make an appointment for you.


----------



## Alan O (14 Oct 2017)

Our local one closed its public front desk years ago, and the intercom gets you someone telling you to go somewhere else - nearest is about 3 miles away, so not too bad really.


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## classic33 (14 Oct 2017)

DCBassman said:


> Do you/does anyone still have a cop shop they can actually go to? Not been one here for years...


I know the number for the central one, now just a phone that most there don't seem to know about. 

Nearest "local station", now closed and converted to apartments, was no nearer than going to the main station.

Odd thing is, I've every barracks number for the Republic of Ireland, (easily obtained), yet it's impossible to get a similar list for the UK.


----------



## Nigel-YZ1 (14 Oct 2017)

DCBassman said:


> Do you/does anyone still have a cop shop they can actually go to? Not been one here for years...



Rumour is ours is being reopened. Penistone used to be a good day out for scumbags in vans driving round finding what they could, which has started again.


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## bpsmith (17 Oct 2017)

Just over a week later. Still swollen with no sign of being able to ride yet. 

Couple of pics, although they don’t fully show the difference between each leg.

Edit: A lady at work described me as having a Cankle, left leg at least.


----------



## vickster (17 Oct 2017)

Ice and arnica


----------



## classic33 (17 Oct 2017)

Hope it goes down soon.


----------



## Julia9054 (17 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Ice and arnica


Topped up with tonic, a slice of lemon and a little umbrella!


----------



## Phaeton (17 Oct 2017)

Anything more from the Police have they got back to you, are they pursuing the guy, has it fallen through the cracks into oblivion?


----------



## bpsmith (17 Oct 2017)

Phaeton said:


> Anything more from the Police have they got back to you, are they pursuing the guy, has it fallen through the cracks into oblivion?


Nothing as of yet. The PC was not back on until today and said he would give me an update when he takes a look at it.

Leigh Day are taking it forward by lodging a Civil suit with insurance company.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

No contact from Police whatsoever. Still waiting on Leigh Day too, although the delay is with the guys insurance and not LD. LD have been superb so far tbh.

Got my first ride in after the incident. Loved it, albeit tough mentally and physically.


----------



## alicat (29 Oct 2017)

So glad you got out. I haven't summoned up the courage to go out properly since my last off seven weeks ago and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as yours.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

alicat said:


> So glad you got out. I haven't summoned up the courage to go out properly since my last off seven weeks ago and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as yours.


There are people on here with accidents worse than mine too, but it doesn’t make my situation easier to deal with, even though I know it’s so. That’s not meant to sound harsh, I am just trying to say that what you’re going through yourself isn’t any less significant than anyone else’s situation.

I am truly gutted that you haven’t felt able to get back out there and I have felt that way for three weeks. I decided a week ago that as soon as the swelling had eased enough then I would get back out there. I even deliberately tagged on the road where the guy lives, just to get that out of the way. It’s cheered me up no end!

Please consider getting your bike out and doing just a few miles. You owe it to yourself and I promise you that you will feel far better for it!


----------



## alicat (29 Oct 2017)

You're right about getting back out there. Part of me is scared and part of me doesn't want to risk reopening a wound if I come off again.

I was heading down a narrow country lane not far from me. A transit van came round the corner; in hindsight we were both going a bit too fast. I braked and realised I wasn't going to stop in time. I managed to squeeze through the narrowest of gaps off-road then lost control when I tried to get back on the tarmac too quickly. I ended up skidding down the middle of the road picking up gravel and all sorts of muck in my elbow. Six trips to the minor injuries unit and seven weeks to the day and I still have quite a large scab.

I am not sure I can face the lanes yet - they do attract boy and girl racers!


----------



## johnnyb47 (29 Oct 2017)

As you say it doesn't matter as to how serious the accident was ,or is between different cyclists. Where all different and our confidences can be affected to different levels. I'm glad to hear your back on your bike @bpsmith and hope you to @alicat will feel better soon and manage to start enjoying your bike rides again.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

alicat said:


> You're right about getting back out there. Part of me is scared and part of me doesn't want to risk reopening a wound if I come off again.
> 
> I was heading down a narrow country lane not far from me. A transit van came round the corner; in hindsight we were both going a bit too fast. I braked and realised I wasn't going to stop in time. I managed to squeeze through the narrowest of gaps off-road then lost control when I tried to get back on the tarmac too quickly. I ended up skidding down the middle of the road picking up gravel and all sorts of muck in my elbow. Six trips to the minor injuries unit and seven weeks to the day and I still have quite a large scab.
> 
> I am not sure I can face the lanes yet - they do attract boy and girl racers!


Now, to me, your accident sounds a lot worse than my incident. Amazing how we all see things differently. Stick with the recuperation, but promise yourself that you will get back out there. I won’t keep on at you any further, but will definitely keep an eye out for the post when you do.


----------



## Andrew_P (29 Oct 2017)

Seriously nothing? Not even a we can't be arsed message from the Police?


----------



## NorthernDave (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> No contact from Police whatsoever. Still waiting on Leigh Day too, although the delay is with the guys insurance and not LD. LD have been superb so far tbh.
> 
> Got my first ride in after the incident. Loved it, albeit tough mentally and physically.



Glad you're out riding again, but 3 weeks since the incident and nothing from the police? That's little short of scandalous.
Makes you wonder if they're simply hoping you'll lose interest and not pursue it, doesn't it?

Personally, I'd be ringing them again, and if nothing was still forthcoming I'd be requesting to speak to the duty officer (or sergeant if that's the best available) and letting them know politely but firmly that if I hadn't had a fulsome update and details of exactly what action was being taken within 48 hours that I'd be logging a formal complaint. What you've described is nothing short of assault and the guy needs bringing to book.


----------



## alicat (29 Oct 2017)

No contact from the police is terrible. The main way people realise that the sort of behaviour that you encountered is not acceptable is when there are consequences.

And yes, without hijacking your thread I will get out there. I am already out on my town bike and my folder and will head out for a run soon.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 5018686, member: 9609"]its pathetic isn't it.[/QUOTE]



Andrew_P said:


> Seriously nothing? Not even a we can't be arsed message from the Police?



Sadly, it’s exactly that. Absolutely no contact whatsoever.


----------



## Andrew_P (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Sadly, it’s exactly that. Absolutely no contact whatsoever.


Well that was worse than my expected, although I suppose three weeks is not a lot but you would think if they were doing something they would need to contact you or at least keep you up to date.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

NorthernDave said:


> Glad you're out riding again, but 3 weeks since the incident and nothing from the police? That's little short of scandalous.
> Makes you wonder if they're simply hoping you'll lose interest and not pursue it, doesn't it?
> 
> Personally, I'd be ringing them again, and if nothing was still forthcoming I'd be requesting to speak to the duty officer (or sergeant if that's the best available) and letting them know politely but firmly that if I hadn't had a fulsome update and details of exactly what action was being taken within 48 hours that I'd be logging a formal complaint. What you've described is nothing short of assault and the guy needs bringing to book.


Happy to sit back a little while, to see what Leigh Day can sort out with his insurance. Then pursue it with the Police. To be honest, I am inclined to just put the complaint in without giving the warning as it’s clear nothing is going to get done. It won’t be just yet mind you.


----------



## classic33 (29 Oct 2017)

alicat said:


> No contact from the police is terrible. The main way people realise that the sort of behaviour that you encountered is not acceptable is when there are consequences.
> 
> And yes, without hijacking your thread I will get out there. I am already out on my town bike and my folder* and will head out for a run soon.*


You got decent lights for the darker nights now the clocks have changed!!


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> Well that was worse than my expected, although I suppose three weeks is not a lot but you would think if they were doing something they would need to contact you or at least keep you up to date.


I gave up ringing them after 3 days of being told there were updates, but that they couldn’t tell me as the Officer dealing with it has to do that. Then eventually forced them to take a statement from me and no contact whatsoever since.

Apologies to any Police Officers on here, as don’t believe that everyone is the same, but my local stations appear to be very poor. This experience has certainly left its mark.


----------



## classic33 (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I gave up ringing them after 3 days of being told there were updates, but that they couldn’t tell me as the Officer dealing with it has to do that. Then eventually forced them to take a statement from me and no contact whatsoever since.
> 
> Apologies to any Police Officers on here, as don’t believe that everyone is the same, but my local stations appear to be very poor. This experience has certainly left its mark.


It seems to be a common theme though.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> It seems to be a common theme though.


Certainly does. Sadly, the longer it goes on, the less that I want to drag it all up again. Might think different if I don’t get any joy with Leigh Day possibly. Will cross that bridge as and when it happens.

An interesting thing that LD told me is that the car insurance company will want to know the age of all the kit, as they will only pay market value after depreciation. This includes parts that need replacing, irrespective of whether a whole bike is replaced. I could just imagine a car driver’s face if they said ‘your wheel was destroyed by our insured, so will need replacing, so here’s £12.50 as it’s a few years old now’...


----------



## classic33 (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Certainly does. Sadly, the longer it goes on, the less that I want to drag it all up again. Might think different if I don’t get any joy with Leigh Day possibly. Will cross that bridge as and when it happens.
> 
> An interesting thing that LD told me is that the car insurance company will want to know the age of all the kit, as they will only pay market value after depreciation. This includes parts that need replacing, irrespective of whether a whole bike is replaced. I could just imagine a car driver’s face if they said ‘your wheel was destroyed by our insured, so will need replacing, so here’s £12.50 as it’s a few years old now’...


That last part doesn't sound right. I'd always thought insurance was meant to put you back to where you were before.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> That last part doesn't sound right. I'd always thought insurance was meant to put you back to where you were before.


I assumed the same tbh, although a few years ago I had a motorbike accident and they did deduct for depreciation from the settlement for my specialist clothing.

That accident was very different as it was a genuine mistake which the van driver was mortified about. Bike was written off and I retired from riding after months of physio for a pretty slow speed collision.

In typing this reply, I just realised that the money they paid out for the bike (minus my outstanding loan) was what paid for the Bianchi that was damaged in this incident. That’s bad karma right there. Lol


----------



## classic33 (29 Oct 2017)

I'd wait until you hear from LD, don't write it all off yet.


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## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> I'd wait until you hear from LD, don't write it all off yet.


I agree. LD have been good so far. Definitely worth the BC membership cost, fair play.


----------



## Drago (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I assumed the same tbh, although a few years ago I had a motorbike accident and they did deduct for depreciation from the settlement for my specialist clothing.
> 
> That accident was very different as it was a genuine mistake which the van driver was mortified about. Bike was written off and I retired from riding after months of physio for a pretty slow speed collision.
> 
> In typing this reply, I just realised that the money they paid out for the bike (minus my outstanding loan) was what paid for the Bianchi that was damaged in this incident. That’s bad karma right there. Lol



They tried that with my daughter when she was wiped off her scooter. I informed them that safety gear needs to be maintained and stored fastidiously to ensure it performs as designed. I then went on to tell them that if my daughter was forced to buy used safety gear of unknown provenance, and in a future accident that failed to protect her as it should then I would further be suing them for those injuries.

Without further argument they paid for a new helmet, jacket and gloves.

You're ultimately entitled to be restored to your pre-accident position, period (as they say in the colonies). They will try all sorts of wheezes and excuses, and many (like existing wear and tear on your damaged kit) may even sound plausible, but its an irrelevance.


----------



## Phaeton (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> An interesting thing that LD told me is that the car insurance company will want to know the age of all the kit, as they will only pay market value after depreciation. This includes parts that need replacing, irrespective of whether a whole bike is replaced. I could just imagine a car driver’s face if they said ‘your wheel was destroyed by our insured, so will need replacing, so here’s £12.50 as it’s a few years old now’...


@srw Maybe able to clarify the situation, or at least provide an insight.


----------



## bpsmith (29 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> They tried that with my daughter when she was wiped off her scooter. I informed them that safety gear needs to be maintained and stored fastidiously to ensure it performs as designed. I then went on to tell them that if my daughter was forced to buy used safety gear of unknown provenance, and in a future accident that failed to protect her as it should then I would further be suing them for those injuries.
> 
> Without further argument they paid for a new helmet, jacket and gloves.
> 
> You're ultimately entitled to be restored to your pre-accident position, period (as they say in the colonies). They will try all sorts of wheezes and excuses, and many (like existing wear and tear on your damaged kit) may even sound plausible, but its an irrelevance.


Glad that you got a better deal than me. Clearly, I need to hold out longer this time, although the company representing me told me that this was their final offer and recommended me to accept. Hindsight suggests otherwise.


----------



## Drago (29 Oct 2017)

I'm sure they'll up their offer when the small claims court papers land on their drivers door mat.

Oh, and start charging them £50 every time you have to write to them. Your time is as valuable as theirs, and you're entitled to reasonable recompense for time you've had to waste on the matter because of their clients bad driving.


----------



## classic33 (29 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Glad that you got a better deal than me. Clearly, I need to hold out longer this time, although the company representing me told me that this was their final offer and recommended me to accept. Hindsight suggests otherwise.


Hindsight is wonderful, where can we get hold of when we need it?


----------



## flake99please (30 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Hindsight is wonderful, where can we get hold of when we need it?



https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/any-good-jokes.78142/post-4767127


----------



## classic33 (30 Oct 2017)

flake99please said:


> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/any-good-jokes.78142/post-4767127


You needed it before as well!


----------



## Johnno260 (30 Oct 2017)

well done for first ride out since the accident.

totally disgusting that the police haven't replied, I know they're stretched thin but still that's another argument.


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

What are you waiting for the police to do? It was about 3 months I think before I heard the Met’s decision. I think you said they’d visited the driver?

Have you completed a full written witness statement? If so, I presume it just takes time to process?

Regarding kit, my helmet was damaged and the hospital cut off my Cycling tights. I’m claiming g for full replacement value. The bike wasn’t damaged and I’ve since sold it anyhow


----------



## Drago (30 Oct 2017)

Victim Code of Practice (VCOP) you should be hearing from them every 28 days max, even if only to say, "don't worry, we haven't forgotton".


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> What are you waiting for the police to do? It was about 3 months I think before I heard the Met’s decision. I think you said they’d visited the driver?
> 
> Have you completed a full written witness statement? If so, I presume it just takes time to process?
> 
> Regarding kit, my helmet was damaged and the hospital cut off my Cycling tights. I’m claiming g for full replacement value. The bike wasn’t damaged and I’ve since sold it anyhow


The last thing I heard was that they still haven’t spoken to the driver. That was 2 weeks ago mind you. They said that they would contact me once that has happened though.


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> The last thing I heard was that they still haven’t spoken to the driver. That was 2 weeks ago mind you. They said that they would contact me once that has happened though.


Perhaps you could drop the officer dealing with it an email?


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Perhaps you could drop the officer dealing with it an email?


You're right. That's exactly what I did 2 weeks ago. He replied saying that he was no longer dealing with it. I responded within 2 mins of receiving that email, asking for the details of who was actually dealing with it now, and there has been zero response.

Bear in mind, that he took my statement but was the 4th different person that I have been told was dealing with it.

With so many people supposedly involved, or not, I have given up all hope of anything actually being done about it now.


----------



## jefmcg (30 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> With so many people supposedly involved, or not, I have given up all hope of anything actually being done about it now.


Talk to your lawyer before taking this sort of action, but I'd inclined to take this to the press.


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

I’d be talking to a more senior officer rather than the press


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Talk to your lawyer before taking this sort of action, but I'd inclined to take this to the press.


It has actually crossed my mind tbh.

I am awaiting a response from LD before I attempt to contact the Police or anyone else. I would prefer not to jeopardise any payment that they may secure for me. It's presently with the guys insurers, which is likely to take 21 days initially. That was put in only last week, so not expecting a response just yet.


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

Nothing to stop you contacting LD for advice before the 21 days are up. I certainly wouldn’t go to the press (about what anyhow?)


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Nothing to stop you contacting LD for advice before the 21 days are up.


Have already left a voicemail message this morning for the lady to call me back.


----------



## Andrew_P (30 Oct 2017)

I think overworked and under prosecuted springs to mind. It does show what you can get away with in a car by comparison of a night out on the town style punch up or common assault. It really is quite strange.


bpsmith said:


> It has actually crossed my mind tbh.
> 
> I am awaiting a response from LD before I attempt to contact the Police or anyone else. I would prefer not to jeopardise any payment that they may secure for me. It's presently with the guys insurers, which is likely to take 21 days initially. That was put in only last week, so not expecting a response just yet.


Have you ever had it confirmed the Police have actually contacted him at all?


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

Make sure you keep, scan and file every last bit of paper, receipt, letter etc that comes into your possession regarding the case, as these are all needed for any case. If you're organised now, it'll save you a bunch of time when it comes time for LD to serve the document disclose list!


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> I think overworked and under prosecuted springs to mind. It does show what you can get away with in a car by comparison of a night out on the town style punch up or common assault. It really is quite strange.
> Have you ever had it confirmed the Police have actually contacted him at all?


No. No confirmation whatsoever.


----------



## Andrew_P (30 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> No. No confirmation whatsoever.


I wonder if the contact from the insurer will be his first contact about the incident...


----------



## classic33 (30 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Talk to your lawyer before taking this sort of action, but I'd inclined to take this to the press.


I'd be inclined to leave the press out of it. They can turn round and say that there's no hope of dealing with the complaint, with the press being involved.


----------



## classic33 (30 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Make sure you keep, scan and file every last bit of paper, receipt, letter etc that comes into your possession regarding the case, as these are all needed for any case. If you're organised now, it'll save you a bunch of time when it comes time for LD to serve the document disclose list!


Your scanner hold out?


----------



## vickster (30 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Your scanner hold out?


Yes, I have a pro version for my business


----------



## bpsmith (30 Oct 2017)

LD phoned me back earlier. No update, as expected, in fairness. They did confirm that the claim was logged last Monday though, with a promise to email or phone once an update hits their portal.


----------



## jefmcg (30 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> LD phoned me back earlier.



I'm glad you've heard from them. My serious though ill-informed (except for "my mum was cautious solicitor") advice would be: don't do anything without legal advice at this point.

From suggestions upthread, a criminal charge could let his insurers off the hook. I have no idea if that's true, so find out before pursuing criminal charges.

Once you have settled, then please - on behalf of us all - go crazy.


----------



## boydj (31 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> I'm glad you've heard from them. My serious though ill-informed (except for "my mum was cautious solicitor") advice would be: don't do anything without legal advice at this point.
> 
> From suggestions upthread, a criminal charge could let his insurers off the hook. I have no idea if that's true, so find out before pursuing criminal charges.
> 
> Once you have settled, then please - on behalf of us all - go crazy.



A criminal charge would leave his insurers no option but to accept liability for third party damages.


----------



## bpsmith (31 Oct 2017)

boydj said:


> A criminal charge would leave his insurers no option but to accept liability for third party damages.





User said:


> No it wouldn’t*. A conviction (rather than just a charge) might strengthen a civil claim but doesn’t make it out automatically.
> 
> 
> 
> *_not in English & Welsh law and not, as far as I am aware, in Scottish law._



I was told by LD that the guy’s insurer could refuse liability if there is a criminal charge. They may well go down that route, which leaves me having to represent myself as LD can’t.


----------



## vickster (31 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I was told by LD that the guy’s insurer could refuse liability if there is a criminal charge. They may well go down that route, which leaves me having to represent myself as LD can’t.


Criminal injuries compensation authority in that case?

https://www.gov.uk/claim-compensation-criminal-injury


----------



## Alan O (31 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I was told by LD that the guy’s insurer could refuse liability if there is a criminal charge. They may well go down that route, which leaves me having to represent myself as LD can’t.


If it's a criminal charge, wouldn't it be "Crown vs whoever", with the prosecution representing the Crown rather than representing you (and calling you as a witness)?


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2017)

I would have though County Court would be the easiest if LD do not pursue him. If he denies it he and you have to go to court let the magistrates decide, if he accepts it he has to pay, if he ignores it he has to pay as the default judgement goes you way. Depending how much you claim will outline the initial costs. Of course he could do a deal with the bailiff of payment monthly, but I you can try and force bailiff to seizes goods to the value of.

Hopefully it won't come to that.


----------



## vickster (31 Oct 2017)

Alan O said:


> If it's a criminal charge, wouldn't it be "Crown vs whoever", with the prosecution representing the Crown rather than representing you (and calling you as a witness)?


Not for compensation which I think the OP is referring to


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2017)

Criminal Charges look like a fantasy at the moment though, don't they? Not even sure the Police have interviewed him let alone consider a charge. Not that I have any great expertise in these things but I would have thought if they had any intent they would have done that by now?


----------



## Drago (31 Oct 2017)

You're making the presumption they've even been able to locate him. Indeed, you're presuming they've even identified him.


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> You're making the presumption they've even been able to locate him. Indeed, you're presuming they've even identified him.


Good point, although Smithy gave them his address and registration number and they changed the charge to assault I think rather than motoring. But he could be ducking and diving not sure how easy that would be having never had to do it!


----------



## Alan O (31 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Not for compensation which I think the OP is referring to


Ah, so a Civil case and not a Criminal case then?


----------



## vickster (31 Oct 2017)

Alan O said:


> Ah, so a Civil case and not a Criminal case then?


Yes, that's why he's talking to Leigh Day but they say they can't represent him if the driver's insurers wash their hands if he is convincted


----------



## bpsmith (31 Oct 2017)

I am not 100% on everything legal wise, so apologies if I get it wrong or are vague.

LD told me that the insurance may just look at my statement and say it’s a criminal matter, despite where the Police are in their investigation.

As far as identifying the guy is concerned, I gave a description and the app registration number/colour/make and model of the car. It may or may not be registered to him and he may or may not admit to driving it, so it could well be more complicated than we all think.


----------



## Andrew_P (31 Oct 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I am not 100% on everything legal wise, so apologies if I get it wrong or are vague.
> 
> LD told me that the insurance may just look at my statement and say it’s a criminal matter, despite where the Police are in their investigation.
> 
> As far as identifying the guy is concerned, I gave a description and the app registration number/colour/make and model of the car. It may or may not be registered to him and he may or may not admit to driving it, so it could well be more complicated than we all think.


OK that does make it a bit more complicated but still doesn't explain the Police lack of contact, lets face it quite easy to get you to id him. Well it is on the TV programs :-)


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## classic33 (31 Oct 2017)

Andrew_P said:


> Good point, although Smithy gave them his address and registration number and they changed the charge to assault I think rather than motoring. But he could be ducking and diving not sure how easy that would be having never had to do it!





bpsmith said:


> I am not 100% on everything legal wise, so apologies if I get it wrong or are vague.
> 
> LD told me that the insurance may just look at my statement and say it’s a criminal matter, despite where the Police are in their investigation.
> 
> As far as identifying the guy is concerned, I gave a description and the app registration number/colour/make and model of the car. It may or may not be registered to him and he may or may not admit to driving it, so it could well be more complicated than we all think.


Getting the name of the vehicle owner is quite straightforward. I went after the owner when, she refused to name the driver, on the night in question.

By this time I'd already had his correct name & address*** and more details than the police had.



***Driver supplied false details on the night


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## RoubaixCube (1 Nov 2017)

classic33 said:


> Getting the name of the vehicle owner is quite straightforward. I went after the owner when, she refused to name the driver, on the night in question.
> 
> By this time I'd already had his correct name & address*** and more details than the police had.
> 
> ...



Isn't it a crime within itself to supply false details after a collision? I know that quite a lot of people have people do it to avoid prosecution and litigation


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## Drago (1 Nov 2017)

Yes, its an offence. You might also get an attempt to pervert the course of justice out of it.


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## boydj (1 Nov 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I was told by LD that the guy’s insurer could refuse liability if there is a criminal charge. They may well go down that route, which leaves me having to represent myself as LD can’t.



It is my understanding that an insurance company might repudiate a claim by a driver for his own losses if driving illegally, but they will still pay out on a 3rd party claim if the driver was held responsible for the damage.


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## bpsmith (1 Nov 2017)

boydj said:


> It is my understanding that an insurance company might repudiate a claim by a driver for his own losses if driving illegally, but they will still pay out on a 3rd party claim if the driver was held responsible for the damage.


That’s interesting. Cheers. Hopefully will get an inkling of their intentions in a couple of weeks, but that’s useful to know.


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## classic33 (2 Nov 2017)

bpsmith said:


> That’s interesting. Cheers. Hopefully will get an inkling of their intentions in a couple of weeks, but that’s useful to know.


Weeks!!


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## bpsmith (2 Nov 2017)

classic33 said:


> Weeks!!


It’s the power of positive thinking. Albeit unrealistic.


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## bpsmith (3 Nov 2017)

UPDATE (Of Sorts) - Apologies for Long Response...

Had a telephone call at work from the PC who is actually dealing with my incident. She had tried calling me on my mobile and no answer or ability to leave a message. I advised that it was strange as both phones next to each other and I have voicemail too. Long story short, they had another number on their system for me which may have been marked as my main number. I vaguely recognized it, but would have been a long time ago. Finally, it makes sense that they were not able to speak to me, when I wasn't actually getting the calls.

Basically, they sent forms out on 12th October to request the details of whoever was driving the vehicle. They have until 9th November to respond, before they can then attend the house and take a formal statement. This totally contradicts what I was told and the PC advised that the Sergeant has now had a good look over the incident and has strongly suggested that this be classed as a Road Traffic Incident, rather than a Public Order one.

I advised the PC that I was looking to get reimbursed for the damage to myself, kit and bike and that the RTI would probably allow me to do this via his insurance. The PC agreed that this would be beneficial to what I was looking to achieve and would factor everything in once spoken to the gentleman and partner for statements. The PC volunteered her badge number and mobile number and was more than happy to give her email address also, and told me that an email contact is very worthwhile as she is on Nightshift next week again. She said that rarely do people want to be in contact via email and couldn't understand that it's easier with shifts.

At the present time, I am no further forward than before, BUT I do feel a lot better about the whole process and in that one call the PC has significantly improved my opinion on the Police generally. I felt no disrespect towards any Police Officers themselves in fairness, but I did feel a touch disillusioned about the apparent lack of interest and my incident being passed from pillar to post with nobody appearing to be taking any interest.

Fingers crossed that it now progresses as hoped.


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## Tim Hall (3 Nov 2017)

Sounds like you're getting somewhere, if a bit slowly. I'm amazed and impressed by your attitude in the whole affair.


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## Buck (3 Nov 2017)

Feels like some progress. Hopefully it’ll move forward now for you.


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## bpsmith (24 Nov 2017)

Ok, (EDIT: Not so) brief version of my latest update:

The Police spoke to the owner of the car today and the driver was confirmed as her partner, but he’s away until Sunday. Spoke to driver on the phone and he’s making a statement on Monday night.

Statement from owner totally contradicted mine and states that I forced the car to stop, after they happened to be following me on their way to somewhere else in the opposite direction. After I swore at them continually, I proceeded to throw my bike in front of the car to stop them leaving, which they then insisted was their legal right to drive over with me behind it.

The Officer then asked why they had not responded to the insurance letter. The “lady” then said she vaguely remembers a letter but didn’t realise it was linked to the incident, despite being on the same day.

They are going to get the paperwork in order and filed on Monday/Tuesday and then it’s up to the Court to decide in 3-4 months time roughly.

Good news that they are charging him. Bad news that he’s not insured. Not spoken to Leigh Day yet, but I assume that the claim will need to be made via the MIB. I will let LD decide what happens next.


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## si_c (25 Nov 2017)

Not liking the insurance situation, but glad to hear the police are acting.


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## Drago (25 Nov 2017)

As he's not insured make sure they knock the cars owner off for "use, cause or permit". It'll make her think twice about letting the chump use the car. If she tries to cover her own arris by saying he took it without her knowledge/permission, then make sure the Feds knock him off for TWOC instead.

Now you've established he has no insurance get yourself onto this, pronto, and get your claim in.

https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/claiming-against-an-uninsured-driver/


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## jarlrmai (25 Nov 2017)

And this is about the time I would produce the video I would have of the incident, the Police are not too keen on being lied to.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

Drago said:


> As he's not insured make sure they knock the cars owner off for "use, cause or permit". It'll make her think twice about letting the chump use the car. If she tries to cover her own arris by saying he took it without her knowledge/permission, then make sure the Feds knock him off for TWOC instead.
> 
> Now you've established he has no insurance get yourself onto this, pronto, and get your claim in.
> 
> https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/claiming-against-an-uninsured-driver/


Cheers for the heads up. Either way, justice prevails, hopefully.

Going to let Leigh Day make that call for me, when I get 2 mins to call them.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

jarlrmai said:


> And this is about the time I would produce the video I would have of the incident, the Police are not too keen on being lied to.


No camera involved unfortunately.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

I don’t know the gentleman’s name and I have no idea when this will go to Court, unless I am called upon.

Is there any way that I can find out when this is going to Court @Drago?


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## classic33 (25 Nov 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Cheers for the heads up. Either way, justice prevails, hopefully.
> 
> Going to let Leigh Day make that call for me, when I get 2 mins to call them.


They'll not be open at this time!!


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## Phaeton (25 Nov 2017)

Well all of that is a result in my mind even if it did take a stupidly long time, but now the important side how are you recovering any permanent injuries.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

Bruising gone. Swelling is taking longer as the skin and soft tissue heals. Still painful when stretching or turning the leg at times. Swelling increases below the cuff of any sock, when spending a day stuck at a desk at work. Was going to go back to the GP last week, but they had a Dr off sick so no appointments other than urgent. The day after it was feeling a lot better so have left it for now.

I just think that there were 5 varying depth cuts from the chainrings and they simply need time to heal. Been respecting that, with minimal cycling, which really does hurt mentally.

Going to set the Turbo up on Zwift this week, to be able to get back up to speed here and there.

Appreciate you asking!


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## Drago (25 Nov 2017)

bpsmith said:


> I don’t know the gentleman’s name and I have no idea when this will go to Court, unless I am called upon.
> 
> Is there any way that I can find out when this is going to Court @Drago?



If he's been charged the OIC should be able to tell you the Court date.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

Drago said:


> If he's been charged the OIC should be able to tell you the Court date.


Ok, thanks for letting me know.

I will give the PC time to put the paperwork in order and then email them in a few weeks time to see if they have a date. Aside from logging the charge for a court date, I don’t see this progressing before Christmas, so there’s absolutely no point in bothering the PC unduly.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2017)

Drago said:


> If he's been charged the OIC should be able to tell you the Court date.



Trans: officer in charge.

As a general point, the further it gets into the court process, the less the officer will know as it's largely taken out of his hands so he can concentrate on front line police work. 

I get the impression there is a disparity in your accounts, so it looks like it will be a trial.

That being the case, you will be called to give evidence, so the CPS/witness care team should ensure you know which date to turn up, and which building you need to turn up to.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Trans: officer in charge.
> 
> As a general point, the further it gets into the court process, the less the officer will know as it's largely taken out of his hands so he can concentrate on front line police work.
> 
> ...


To be fair, the PC did advise that they wouldn’t be involved from here on, although they kindly said that I could email or call them if I was unsure if anything. I won’t be bothering them any further, aside from checking about the court date if I don’t hear anything.

The statements are radically different, so wouldn’t be surprised in having to attend court tbh.


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## Pale Rider (25 Nov 2017)

We won't know yet what the other driver is going to be charged with.

From your original account, dangerous drving is a possibility which gives the option of it being sent to the crown court.

You shouldn't see that as a problem, but it may delay things by another few months.

Or the driver may be charged/offered careless driving, so it could all sort in one appearance at magistrates' court.

Were I the driver, I would snatch their hand off for careless - what he did doesn't look at all clever so from his point of view the less said about it, the better.


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## NorthernDave (25 Nov 2017)

Drago said:


> As he's not insured make sure they knock the cars owner off for "use, cause or permit". It'll make her think twice about letting the chump use the car. If she tries to cover her own arris by saying he took it without her knowledge/permission, then make sure the Feds knock him off for TWOC instead.
> 
> Now you've established he has no insurance get yourself onto this, pronto, and get your claim in.
> 
> https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/claiming-against-an-uninsured-driver/



^^^ This x2

They can't have it both ways - one of them is guilty of an offence here.


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## classic33 (25 Nov 2017)

bpsmith said:


> Ok, thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I will give the PC time to put the paperwork in order and then email them in a few weeks time to see if they have a date. Aside from logging the charge for a court date, I don’t see this progressing before Christmas, so there’s absolutely no point in bothering the PC unduly.


At least there's hope there.


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## bpsmith (25 Nov 2017)

classic33 said:


> At least there's hope there.


Absolutely. Far more positive than I was during the early stages of this thread.

I am generally an optimistic person, but I really did have doubts over whether anything would get pursued.

Didn’t like to keep pushing for action, but the combination of the Police having an additional old number on file, along with not informing me that they had moved back to a Road Traffic incident (with the requisite 28 day delay to allow a response) meant that I had a very different opinion to what was actually happening behind the scenes.

I do wonder what might have been done had I not chased for updates, but my faith has been restored by the PC that eventually took ownership.

Even if the court decides otherwise, I can honestly say that the Police have done their bit.

Sadly, I don’t believe that the 101 service does them any justice tbh. I have had very little information or assistance during the past weeks. It’s obviously a measure which allows Police Officers to do “real Police work”, as people often say, but it is a very poor service due to the fact that they cannot tell you what’s on screen in front of them. A better way would surely to have an option Of a section where things that they are allowed to tell me are put. At least they would save additional calls for the basics.


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## bpsmith (15 Feb 2018)

Brief update on what’s happened since.

Lots of random delays that I won’t go into here. Not pointing blame at individuals, but at the lack of available resource.

The driver has yet to be spoken to. He was scheduled to give a statement Monday just gone, but it was put on hold as one of the witnesses came forward to give a statement.

PC said that this changes everything and they now believe that they can get a solid conviction based on my statement and that of the witness Dovetailing perfectly. They were surprised how detailed the witness statement was after 4 months. I declined to say it wouldn’t have been so surprising if this statement had been taken 4 months ago.

They are going to give the guy one chance to attend the station next week, otherwise he will be arrested.

Hopefully this will help with my insurance claim via Leigh Day, who have been amazing throughout, despite being hampered by the lack of urgency shown above.


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## Buck (15 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Brief update on what’s happened since.
> 
> Lots of random delays that I won’t go into here. Not pointing blame at individuals, but at the lack of available resource.
> 
> ...



Did they say why the witness had only just come forward?

Regardless, sounds positive. Hopefully this’ll work out well for you in the end.


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## bpsmith (15 Feb 2018)

Buck said:


> Did they say why the witness had only just come forward?
> 
> Regardless, sounds positive. Hopefully this’ll work out well for you in the end.


Just come forward, as a result of letters being sent to them for the first time late last week.

Does sound positive in fairness.


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## Slick (15 Feb 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Just come forward, as a result of letters being sent to them for the first time late last week.
> 
> Does sound positive in fairness.


Good luck with the rest of it, must have felt like a real long wait.


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## classic33 (15 Feb 2018)

Nice to hear its going somewhere. The person who came forward yesterday may have had notes ready, awaiting the police contact.

Hope you're doing okay yourself.


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## Alan O (15 Feb 2018)

classic33 said:


> The person who came forward yesterday may have had notes ready, awaiting the police contact.


Very possibly, yes. I've been witness to a couple of traffic events, and I made my own notes right away before I forgot anything. In one case it was a couple of months before anyone wanted a statement.


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## bpsmith (15 Feb 2018)

It has felt like ages tbh. More because we of the frustration in taking this forward.

I feel ok in myself though. Leg stills swells up daily. Especially when wearing socks, which is pretty unavoidable right now. I am also a different rider on the road. No matter what people do, or how close they get with their vehicles, I just smile and nothing more. It’s just not worth the hassle, rightly or wrongly.

When reading stories about other people’s accidents on here, I feel lucky in comparison. It could quite easily have been very different.


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## alicat (15 Feb 2018)

That's wonderful news about the witness. Keep the updates coming.


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## bpsmith (26 Jun 2018)

Ok, so here’s a brief summary of what happened as the whole process still winds me up!

Case went to court, with the first thing me knowing about it was a call from the officer linked to the court to clarify the value of the bike. She said they were about to hear my case and they needed a copy of the bike report and that I was still claiming via insurance. The PC who dealt with my case was supposed to have told me and had also promised me they would do so.

Anyway, I wasn’t required to be attend. The guy turned up and pleaded guilty to everything and got 8 points, court costs, 180 hours of unpaid community service and ordered to pay a token amount of compensation in weekly instalments.

That’s result number one. Pretty happy with that tbh, considering how shoddy they were in even getting to the point of interviewing the guy!

Learning point for anyone reading is to be absolutely steadfast in pursuing the Police to get what needs to be done. Don’t be afraid of moving higher up the ranks if you don’t get any joy, and ask about making a complaint if need be.

More importantly, always remain calm and polite when doing so, even if you feel anxious and aggrieved inside as I genuinely believe this is why I was eventually listened to and taken seriously.

With respect to the bike claim, after months of chasing Leigh Day to keep the pressure on the insurer, they finally made an offer that I feel is acceptable. This is also very frustrating, when the insurer doesn’t stick to what they promise from a timescale point of view. Not blaming Leigh Day, as overall I am very happy with their service, but politely asking them to chase the insurer certainly helped.

The insurer knocked some money off for my damaged Sidi shoe and the associated cleat, as I had given the RRP for them and they shopped around and found them cheaper. I can live with that as have now bought from the supplier they found that price for. They knocked some money off the personal injury element, which I assume is fairly standard.

What they didn’t do is knock any money off the bike claim. I posted in a different thread recently, although forget where, but I believe the key to this was having a good chat with the engineer doing the bike report with regards to your bike being your pride and joy (assuming it is, like mine was). The bike was spotless prior to the incident and I wanted him to include plenty of photos showing this alongside the areas that were damaged. I also made sure every upgrade was photographed and gave them a detailed spreadsheet on exact parts and their pricing. The engineer was diligent in covering the price of a replacement bike, plus the upgrades, but also removed the price of the parts that I took off. All prices were at RRP, but they did knock off 10% depreciation for each of the 2 years that I had owned the bike for. I honestly think that this genuine discussion, and subsequent effort of the engineer in completing his report with every possible area covered, was key to them paying out in full for the bike.

That’s result number 2. Cheque is still to arrive, but I have been assured that it’s all agreed and should take a maximum of 21 days to arrive.

I genuinely hope that the guy has learned a lesson here and he won’t do this to anyone else. Might be naive of me maybe? Who knows?

I know that I have learned a lesson and I no longer confront anyone for bad driving or for getting to close to me. They may be in the wrong, but it’s just not worth it. I now just smile instead and often people get the message anyway.

My final word, to reiterate what I have said above a few times, is to keep pushing hard to get the result you need! It’s frustrating and time consuming but well worth doing. Try not to let it consume you, but it will at times and don’t let that get you down as I think it’s only natural.

Cheers to everyone who helped me early on with advice too!!!

@classic33 especially.


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## NorthernDave (26 Jun 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Ok, so here’s a brief summary of what happened as the whole process still winds me up!
> 
> Case went to court, with the first thing me knowing about it was a call from the officer linked to the court to clarify the value of the bike. She said they were about to hear my case and they needed a copy of the bike report and that I was still claiming via insurance. The PC who dealt with my case was supposed to have told me and had also promised me they would do so.
> 
> ...



Good news, even if it did take more effort than it should have.

One point though, and I assume that Leigh Day have it covered, but don't forget interest on the amount to be paid dating back to the incident date.


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## alicat (26 Jun 2018)

Top marks for perseverance. Out of interest, what did they charge him with?


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## vickster (26 Jun 2018)

Good stuff

Must be the week for it, as my injury claim has also settled, just the final sums for deductions to be done (private health insurer and a few sessions of physio I had)...it's only been 4.5 years


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## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

vickster said:


> Good stuff
> 
> Must be the week for it, as my injury claim has also settled, just the final sums for deductions to be done (private health insurer and a few sessions of physio I had)...it's only been 4.5 years


Another well done in sticking it out. Hope that everything has been sorted, then you can sort your bike out.


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## vickster (26 Jun 2018)

classic33 said:


> Another well done in sticking it out. Hope that everything has been sorted, then you can sort your bike out.


Mu bike wasn’t hurt (and long since sold that one ), I was!


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## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Ok, so here’s a brief summary of what happened as the whole process still winds me up!
> 
> Case went to court, with the first thing me knowing about it was a call from the officer linked to the court to clarify the value of the bike. She said they were about to hear my case and they needed a copy of the bike report and that I was still claiming via insurance. The PC who dealt with my case was supposed to have told me and had also promised me they would do so.
> 
> ...




I'm assuming by that last piece you mean the thread you were pointed to. Only sorry you had to be pointed towards it.

Always good to hear that people have managed to get the matter sorted, and hopefully you're on the mend as well. Maybe one day we(cyclists) will be given the same treatment as any other road user after an incident by the police. We shouldn't have to push for action when it goes wrong. Good to hear that you're happy with the "slap on the wrist" awarded by the court. And hopefully he may have learned his lesson, like you say.

One final thing, until the cheque has cleared....


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## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

vickster said:


> Mu bike wasn’t hurt (and long since sold that one ), I was!


Nice to hear your case has been sorted anyway.


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## fossyant (26 Jun 2018)

Good news both of you with your claims getting settled. Mine next... in a few months


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## Buck (26 Jun 2018)

Glad that this is sorted @bpsmith 

Your perseverance has paid off.


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## bpsmith (26 Jun 2018)

alicat said:


> Top marks for perseverance. Out of interest, what did they charge him with?


Common Assault
Criminal Damage
Use of Motor Vehicle Without Insurance
Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Failure to Report
Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Fail to Stop


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## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Common Assault
> Criminal Damage
> Use of Motor Vehicle Without Insurance
> Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Failure to Report
> Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Fail to Stop


A "slap on the wrist" fine for that lot?

On the plus side, their insurance will go up. Assuming they let them know.


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## Drago (26 Jun 2018)

That's a damn good show. Shame they're all summary offences, but still a damn good show.


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## alicat (27 Jun 2018)

> Common Assault
> Criminal Damage
> Use of Motor Vehicle Without Insurance
> Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Failure to Report
> Driver of Vehicle in a Road Accident - Fail to Stop



Wow, they certainly threw the book at him. The penalty sounds like it is designed to cause him maximum aggro in the months and years ahead. He will have plenty of time to reflect on his actions during all that unpaid community service, 8 points will concentrate his mind as well and his insurance will be expensive if he bothers to get any.

I hope the incident starts to fade soon @bpsmith and you can get on with your life again.


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