# Anyone tried to get a Sick Note from GP lately?



## MontyVeda (29 Dec 2021)

After spending xmas in hospital with Pneumonia... and spending all day today trying to get in touch with my GP because a; I need advice on my road to recovery and b; i need the sick note my employers are asking for... I got nothing!

the receptionist said i should call back next week regarding my recovery, and also said that they (the practice) don't provide sick notes unless i'm off for 29 days or more... up to 28 days i can self-certify, but my employer won't provide sick pay without a sick note. 

I can really do without this stress right now


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## cyberknight (29 Dec 2021)

talk to the hospital the fracture clinic gave me one for my collar bone


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## annedonnelly (29 Dec 2021)

My brother is in your part of the world @MontyVeda and he had real hassle getting his sick note in October/November. I think he had to complete forms online but there were still massive delays.

Hope you get sorted soon.


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## midlife (29 Dec 2021)

Didn’t the rules change a few weeks ago ? You can self certificate for 28 days


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## Drago (29 Dec 2021)

Yes, if youve fallen ill on or after the 10th December this year its now 28 days.

It seems doctors have better things to do at the moment than waste rime filling out forms to prove to employers that patients are not telling porkies, and the government have ammended the roolz accordingly. Your employer needs to get with the programme.

PS, hope you make a speedy recovery.


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## cougie uk (29 Dec 2021)

Wha kind of crappy employer is that ? Look for a better one when you're better. 

https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

If I were you I'd check with citizens advice if they can insist on the sick note. You can definitely have a week without one so that buys you some time.


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## vickster (29 Dec 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Wha kind of crappy employer is that ? Look for a better one when you're better.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
> 
> If I were you I'd check with citizens advice if they can insist on the sick note. You can definitely have a week without one so that buys you some time.


A large generally well regarded supermarket assuming not moved on.
As above, get in touch with the hospital ward you were on..
and head office HR of your employer


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## MontyVeda (29 Dec 2021)

cyberknight said:


> *talk to the hospital* the fracture clinic gave me one for my collar bone


I did when i was discharged, they told me they don't issue sick note and to go to my GP


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## cyberknight (29 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I did when i was discharged, they told me they don't issue sick note and to go to my GP


fair enough


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## slowmotion (29 Dec 2021)

@MontyVeda, I'm sorry you have been ill and I hope you make a swift recovery. The new regulations are in this document.......

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fit-note

Forward the link to your employers and gently suggest that they wake up. Good luck!

Edit: it links to the document posted by @vickster that I missed. Apologies.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I did when i was discharged, they told me they don't issue sick note and to go to my GP



Print your own, and scribble something unintelligible to prove a GP signed it.


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## midlife (29 Dec 2021)

Hospitals don't issue sick notes as such but sometimes the discharge letter will say how many days rest are required before considering returning to work. The discharge letter is confidential and the employer is not really meant to see it.


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## MontyVeda (29 Dec 2021)

thank for the other replies  ... looks like my employer needs to catch up with recent changes.

although... what's so hard for a GP or hospital doctor to write a short note stating that i was in fact in hospital over Xmas with pneumonia?

I get that they're busy people but... two minutes?


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## fossyant (29 Dec 2021)

They won't issue sick notes at the minute as they are busy with covid and jabs, so send the new regs to HR.


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## newfhouse (29 Dec 2021)

@MontyVeda Are you a union member?


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## MontyVeda (29 Dec 2021)

It's not just the sick note that pi$$ed me off when I rang my GP's practice... it's the sheer lack of advice regarding my road to recovery.

I can look online and the general advice is this...

It’s impossible to say exactly how quickly you’ll recover, but here’s an idea of what to expect:​​
1 week​your fever should be gone​4 weeks​your chest will feel better and you’ll produce less mucus​6 weeks​you’ll cough less and find it easier to breathe​3 months​most of your symptoms should be gone, though you may still feel tired​6 months​you should feel back to normal​
You’ll recover gradually. You can help by eating well and doing some exercise including deep breathing exercises.​​At first, you’ll need plenty of rest. As you begin to feel better, you can start to be a bit more active, but don’t push yourself too hard. Start off by getting out of bed and moving around for a few minutes each day. As your symptoms improve and you have more energy, you can increase your activity. Speak to your doctor about how much exercise you should do as you recover.​
...but that doesn't say when i can go back to work, or expect to. I want to talk to a doctor to ask things like, can i go out for a walk in the cold winter air? What about my swollen knee? Should i be walking on it? Does it want ice or heat? Compression bandages yes or no???

I'm feeling pi$$ed off that the receptionist on the phone just fobbed me right off when i started asking the above. Dread to think where I'd be if i spoke to the same one last week when i needed my initial appointment.


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## vickster (29 Dec 2021)

Ask for a telephone consult with the Dr, my practice actually allows one to book these online via Patient Access. If you can’t and the receptionist questions, just say it’s personal and you wish to discuss with a dr


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## roadrash (29 Dec 2021)

politely remind the receptionist that it is not there job to keep you from seeing the doctor , nor do you need to discuss your medical condition with them , register a complaint with the practice manager and expect a resolution in 24 hrs if not then look here.. 
How_to_raise_concerns_about_a_general_practice_0.pdf (ombudsman.org.uk)


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## cougie uk (29 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> thank for the other replies  ... looks like my employer needs to catch up with recent changes.
> 
> although... what's so hard for a GP or hospital doctor to write a short note stating that i was in fact in hospital over Xmas with pneumonia?
> 
> I get that they're busy people but... two minutes?


I guess they'd need to look up your records, get the right form, make a record that they've issued you a note etc... It all takes time and in the middle of s pandemic it's hardly value adding stuff is it. 

I'm sure you can think of tasks in your day job that others may think is just a two minute task but you know different.


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## roadrash (29 Dec 2021)

cougie uk said:


> I guess they'd need to look up your records, get the right form, make a record that they've issued you a note etc... It all takes time and in the middle of s pandemic it's hardly value adding stuff is it.
> 
> I'm sure you can think of tasks in your day job that others may think is just a two minute task but you know different.




what has value adding stuff got to do with it , he didnt even get as far as speaking to a doctor, he didnt get past the jumped up jobsworth receptionist who would do well to remember what her actual job is, and before anyone jumps on me for saying that I AM NOT SAYING ALL DRs RECEPTIONIST ARE THE SAME. some actually know and do their job well


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## classic33 (29 Dec 2021)

cougie uk said:


> I guess they'd need to look up your records, get the right form, make a record that they've issued you a note etc... It all takes time and in the middle of s pandemic it's hardly value adding stuff is it.
> 
> I'm sure you can think of tasks in your day job that others may think is just a two minute task but you know different.


The sick note, if I've read right, is only half of what he needs. 
The other half being where does he go from here, now he's out of hospital(Where everything would have been decided for him, treatment wise). There will be items that he can't get without seeing a doctor first, including medication. No doctor would be willing to prescribe something without first seeing the person. At the least, talking to them. It may just send them back into hospital, and they'd be looking for someone to blame. Been there, done that, and it's when it went wrong, things got done that should have been done before.


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## midlife (29 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> what has value adding stuff got to do with it , he didnt even get as far as speaking to a doctor, he didnt get past the jumped up jobsworth receptionist who would do well to remember what her actual job is, and before anyone jumps on me for saying that I AM NOT SAYING ALL DRs RECEPTIONIST ARE THE SAME. some actually know and do their job well



Rules say you can't get a sick (fit) note until 28 days...


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## Arrowfoot (30 Dec 2021)

Even with the change of regulations for the sick note, I will be concerned carrying on with this practice. Out of hospital and this sort of treatment!


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## mustang1 (30 Dec 2021)

I had a weird experience the other day with my GP. She wanted to record the call "for training purposes" so I said "yeah sure no problem" so she called me back. She had to call me back a couple of times but her recording equipment still wasn't working so I told her to forget the recording and just get on with my health diagnosis. But she was really adamant that she wanted to record it but I told her "No."

She then asked for my height so I told her 1.85 metres. She kept going on about how she should record the call and I kept declining. Then she told me she is really needed to record the call because she wants to review the call after we hang up and that she cannot work with me giving her the height in metres. I continued to decline the recording and asked what unit of measurement she needed my height in. I kid you not, honest as honest gets, she told me "i need it in cm". "Yeah, that's 185cm".

Now I like riding downhills as much as the next cyclist, but when it comes to doctors, this phonecall was going distinctly downhill. I'd really like to put it down to her being flustered about wanting to record the call hence unable to calculate metres to centimetres, but I'm not entirely sure and left me rather doubtful when she gave further referals which I didn't want but after losing confidence in her, I just went ahead with it.

YEah so just move the decimal point. That feeling you get that calls are recorded for "training" purposes... puh!


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## fossyant (30 Dec 2021)

My recent annual health check was two texts, one for height one for weight. The NHS is a bit screwed up with this covid mess


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## Drago (30 Dec 2021)

mustang1 said:


> I had a weird experience the other day with my GP. She wanted to record the call "for training purposes" so I said "yeah sure no problem" so she called me back. She had to call me back a couple of times but her recording equipment still wasn't working so I told her to forget the recording and just get on with my health diagnosis. But she was really adamant that she wanted to record it but I told her "No."
> 
> She then asked for my height so I told her 1.85 metres. She kept going on about how she should record the call and I kept declining. Then she told me she is really needed to record the call because she wants to review the call after we hang up and that she cannot work with me giving her the height in metres. I continued to decline the recording and asked what unit of measurement she needed my height in. I kid you not, honest as honest gets, she told me "i need it in cm". "Yeah, that's 185cm".
> 
> ...


Blimey. I'd be wary of anyone who takes your life in their hands, yet who is so daft they can't move a decimal point 2 places to the right in their head.

I'm quite fortunate in a sense. Im registered as a carer, and the NHS appesr sheet scared that something might happen to me as a result. Stub my toe and Ill get a face to face appointment the morning/afternoon I ring in. I think the quickest was earlier this year when I was offered one in 25 minutes time - that was one of the rare occasionsnI hopped in the car instead of riding.


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## Illaveago (30 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> It's not just the sick note that pi$$ed me off when I rang my GP's practice... it's the sheer lack of advice regarding my road to recovery.
> 
> I can look online and the general advice is this...
> 
> ...


I had viral pneumonia back in 1990 around a similar time . I feel sorry for you .
I think I was in hospital for a week . I didn't eat much but drank a lot of squash so I lost over a stone .
It was ages before I felt up to doing much . I didn't know at the time that I was also suffering from panic attacks . It was almost 3 months before I went back to work .


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## roadrash (30 Dec 2021)

midlife said:


> Rules say you can't get a sick (fit) note until 28 days...




rules dont say you cant speak to your doctor about your recovery and other issues which he also wanted to do !!


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## MontyVeda (30 Dec 2021)

I'd also like to give my employer some proof.

For all i know, they might be thinking I've made up a cock&bull story to get an extended break over Xmas and new year.... but maybe that's just paranoia creeping in on top of everything else. I certainly don't have form for pulling sickies. This is the 2nd time I've had sick leave in 6 years, the last being 2017 (and i didn't get any SSP for that).


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## Alex321 (30 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I'd also like to give my employer some proof.
> 
> For all i know, they might be thinking I've made up a cock&bull story to get an extended break over Xmas and new year.... but maybe that's just paranoia creeping in on top of everything else. I certainly don't have form for pulling sickies. This is the 2nd time I've had sick leave in 6 years, the last being 2017 (and i didn't get any SSP for that).


You just won't get that proof, I'm afraid. 

No doctor is going to issue a sick note now until they know you are going to be unfit to work for more than the 28 days the rules now prescribe. 

And AIUI, your employer is not allowed to ask for one until then either.


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## Illaveago (30 Dec 2021)

This company sounds as though it is still working in the Dickensian period !


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## MontyVeda (30 Dec 2021)

Illaveago said:


> This company sounds as though it is still working in the Dickensian period !


the rules changed less than a month ago... December 10th 2021. Yes they should know about recent changes to the Law, but it's hardly Dickensian.


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## Noodle Legs (30 Dec 2021)

I signed off work 9th of November with stress and anxiety, knowing that I was going to be off well beyond my self certifying first week, I rang up the doctors, told them I was having stress/anxiety/ mental health issues and that they couldn’t even give me a call back until the 29th! Despite my pleas it was the best they could do. So I went private in the end- £30 later I had a sick note there and then.


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## Illaveago (30 Dec 2021)

You should be able to tell them which hospital you were in and what ward. If they don't believe you then I would start looking for something else .


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## vickster (30 Dec 2021)

Surely you / your GP have received a discharge note from the hospital?
do you have online access to your records via Patient Access, there should be a record on there entered by your GP surgery (although it may take a few days after they get the paperwork)


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## midlife (30 Dec 2021)

roadrash said:


> rules dont say you cant speak to your doctor about your recovery and other issues which he also wanted to do !!



I'm not sure I mentioned anything but a fit note?


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## MontyVeda (30 Dec 2021)

vickster said:


> Surely you / your GP have received a discharge note from the hospital?
> do you have online access to your records via Patient Access, there should be a record on there entered by your GP surgery (although it may take a few days after they get the paperwork)


All i got on being discharged was a prescription for antibiotics and a call-back letter for a chest X-ray on the 21st Jan.

setting up patient access account now  ...which is proving useless... There's glitch in the 'link to my practice' page (yes I've tried different browsers) so can't see any personal info. Even searching for 'pneumonia' delivers no results. Chocolate fireguard springs to mind.


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## vickster (30 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> All i got on being discharged was a prescription for antibiotics and a call-back letter for a chest X-ray on the 21st Jan.
> 
> setting up patient access account now  ...which is proving useless... There's glitch in the 'link to my practice' page (yes I've tried different browsers) so can't see any personal info. Even searching for 'pneumonia' delivers no results. Chocolate fireguard springs to mind.


Medical record is on a separate screen. It needs to be activated possibly. I can also get at mine through the NHS app but not sure if you need PA first.


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## Buck (30 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> It's not just the sick note that pi$$ed me off when I rang my GP's practice... it's the sheer lack of advice regarding my road to recovery.
> 
> I can look online and the general advice is this...
> 
> ...



You should have got this advice from the hospital not your GP.
Also your “just 2 minutes” is over simplifying things. To issue the Fit note they need to assess your record and review your noted to make sure they are accurately issuing the fit note hence the move to 28 days self certification.


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## Drago (30 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I'd also like to give my employer some proof.


I recall one bobby who was off with a nasty stomach bug was being hassled on the blower for proof. He offered to come in and do an explosive runny sheet all over the HR reps desk as proof.


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## MontyVeda (31 Dec 2021)

Buck said:


> You should have got this advice from the hospital not your GP.
> Also your “just 2 minutes” is over simplifying things. To issue the Fit note they need to assess your record and review your noted to make sure they are accurately issuing the fit note hence the move to 28 days self certification.


the advice the hospital Dr gave me is pretty much what i copied and pasted from the NHS website, in the post you quoted. When i asked about my return to work, they said to speak to my GP.


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## Buck (31 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> the advice the hospital Dr gave me is pretty much what i copied and pasted from the NHS website, in the post you quoted. When i asked about my return to work, they said to speak to my GP.



i wasn’t suggesting you were wrong, more the advice given from them was incorrect. Also they do and should issue fit notes. This should be for the duration of your expected recovery.
When I was I’ll a couple of years ago and also had a follow up operation I was given a fit note for 8 weeks and only after that did I need to contact my GP for a continuation, if needed. 

it’s so frustrating as you as the patient should be able to concentrate on your recovery and not chasing paperwork!

GWS


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## Arrowfoot (31 Dec 2021)

Getting curious here with the 28 day rule. What happens if an employee abuses the rule? What recourse does the employer have?


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## PaulSB (31 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> All i got on being discharged was a prescription for antibiotics and a call-back letter for a chest X-ray on the 21st Jan.
> 
> setting up patient access account now  ...which is proving useless... There's glitch in the 'link to my practice' page (yes I've tried different browsers) so can't see any personal info. Even searching for 'pneumonia' delivers no results. Chocolate fireguard springs to mind.


When you have the app installed initially you will only be able to see basic information, prescriptions etc. I think, but can't be sure as it's a couple of years since I set up mine, you need an access code from your GP practice.

To get your full medical history, as far back as is digitised, you have to request the practice to enable this. I'm 100% on this aspect as I did it earlier this month in a two minute phone call.


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## MontyVeda (31 Dec 2021)

Buck said:


> i wasn’t suggesting you were wrong, more the advice given from them was incorrect.* Also they do and should issue fit notes*. This should be for the duration of your expected recovery.
> When I was I’ll a couple of years ago and also had a follow up operation I was given a fit note for 8 weeks and only after that did I need to contact my GP for a continuation, if needed.
> 
> it’s so frustrating as you as the patient should be able to concentrate on your recovery and not chasing paperwork!
> ...


Currently they don't unless the illness/absence is for 29 days or more... links to current guidance/regulations are on page one of this thread.

Good news is I spoke to my area manager this morning and I will be getting SSP, which is bugger all compared to working but better than nothing.


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## MontyVeda (31 Dec 2021)

Anyone remember the days when we got 20 days paid holiday and 20 days paid sickness, and we made damn sure we took all 40 of them


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## newfhouse (31 Dec 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Anyone remember the days when we got 20 days paid holiday and 20 days paid sickness, and we made damn sure we took all 40 of them


Forty years ago when I worked for a well known national broadcaster we were encouraged to book our sick leave in advance so as to avoid clashes with the rest of the department.


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## Drago (31 Dec 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Getting curious here with the 28 day rule. What happens if an employee abuses the rule? What recourse does the employer have?


I would have though that anyone fraudulently pulling a fast one would be out the door with a gross misconduct letter in their pocket, although proving it might be tricky in most cases.


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## MontyVeda (31 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> I would have though that anyone fraudulently pulling a fast one would be out the door with a gross misconduct letter in their pocket, although proving it might be tricky in most cases.


There was a colleague, at the start of the pandemic, who had to self isolate along with his whole family, was spotted out in town with his mates by the manager, who promptly telephoned said colleague... the conversation apparently went _"Hi, it's your manager, how you getting on?"_ ... "Not bad, still isolating." ... _"At home?"_ ... "Yeah." ... _"Well I've just walked past you in town with your mates so i know you're lying."_ We didn't see that colleague again.


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## Arrowfoot (1 Jan 2022)

newfhouse said:


> Forty years ago when I worked for a well known national broadcaster we were encouraged to book our sick leave in advance so as to avoid clashes with the rest of the department.


I do recall at that time it was common for people to consider the sick leave entitlement as part of annual leave and those not in management would use up all the sick leave entitlement for the year. And it was common to get a sick leave from the doctor.


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## MontyVeda (1 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> I do recall at that time it was common for people to consider the sick leave entitlement as part of annual leave and those not in management would use up all the sick leave entitlement for the year. And it was common to get a sick leave from the doctor.


even early this century... holidays were for planned breaks, sick days were for impromptu days off when you just CBA


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2022)

SydZ said:


> *I understand that this is only a temporary change where employees go off sick on of after 10th December, up to and including 26th January. After that the rules will return to what they were before.*
> 
> I am assuming this includes the OP as they spent Christmas in hospital.
> 
> As for getting guidance on where to go from hear from your GP; persist with them. Don’t make the Fit Note the topic of your call, as they will try to deflect it, but make your health problems the focus instead.


Correct. It's back to the usual 7 days now.

Another question though, for any CC members who are employers or manage staff... when the rules change as they did over Xmas, do you get any official notification before any changes come into effect?


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## Roseland triker (27 Feb 2022)

Simple policy here at work. 75hrs per week. No working no pay. 
Overtime available...


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2022)

SydZ said:


> As a manager for 25 to 30 staff, in the NHS, I get notification of such changes within a couple of days of the heal board being officially notified.


do you know who 'officially' notifies the board?

does the Govt send out an email or letter?


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Simple policy here at work. 75hrs per week. No working no pay.
> Overtime available...


if you've nothing to add to the topic in question, then don't say anything.


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## midlife (27 Feb 2022)

SydZ said:


> As a manager for 25 to 30 staff, in the NHS, I get notification of such changes within a couple of days of the heal board being officially notified.




If you are under a health board are you in Scotland?


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## lazybloke (27 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> even early this century... holidays were for planned breaks, sick days were for impromptu days off when you just CBA


I'm starting to understand why UK productivity is such a joke


Apart from a Covid absence in November I've not had any sick leave since a spinal issue in 2012.


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## ColinJ (27 Feb 2022)

lazybloke said:


> I'm starting to understand why UK productivity is such a joke
> 
> 
> Apart from a Covid absence in November I've not had any sick leave since a spinal issue in 2012.


I was thinking about this a few days ago...



ColinJ said:


> I had a chat with my MD once and he told me that he'd been going over the company records and had spotted an employee who was "taking the piss".
> 
> This man had one or two days off sick virtually every month, always on a Monday or a Friday, sometimes a Friday _and_ the following Monday. It was quite obvious that he was taking long weekends, either to party, or to get over partying.
> 
> I asked what the MD was going to do about it. He said that the employee did a reasonable job when he was at work and the company could do without the hassle of trying to sack him, but this behaviour would not be forgotten. He would never be promoted and he would get smaller pay rises than he otherwise would have had. In the end he was at the head of the queue when the company had to make redundancies.


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## Alex321 (27 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Simple policy here at work. 75hrs per week. No working no pay.
> Overtime available...


Unless you are self employed or a director, that is illegal.


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## Roseland triker (27 Feb 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Unless you are self employed or a director, that is illegal.


Lol there's plenty of things that are illegal but work is work so at the hourly rate it's easy to earn £1500 per week. 
If you don't want to somebody else will..... Like cheap food you lot don't you?


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## MontyVeda (27 Feb 2022)

lazybloke said:


> I'm starting to understand why UK productivity is such a joke
> ...


you do realise you're replying to a comment referring to 20 years ago


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## OldShep (27 Feb 2022)

I spent 47 years in full time employment and not once had a sick note. 
I’ve got no medals for it and not even an enhanced pension. Only reward is good health for age and the satisfaction of not knowing my doctor.


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## FishFright (27 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Lol there's plenty of things that are illegal but work is work so at the hourly rate it's easy to earn £1500 per week.
> If you don't want to somebody else will..... Like cheap food you lot don't you?



A mate used to do work like that filling holes in the roads . Really hard work but could make a lot of money in a short time when they were busy.

Until the Highways Agency et al had their repairs budgets cut and cut making the margins too slim to make it worth the effort.


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## Roseland triker (27 Feb 2022)

FishFright said:


> A mate used to do work like that filling holes in the roads . Really hard work but could make a lot of money in a short time when they were busy.
> 
> Until the Highways Agency et al had their repairs budgets cut and cut making the margins too slim to make it worth the effort.


There is always food to harvest


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## lazybloke (27 Feb 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> you do realise you're replying to a comment referring to 20 years ago


Long-term issue?


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