# Lightweight touring kit



## jay clock (21 Jun 2021)

Having done a load of heavily laden tours I am going to attempt my first ever outing using bike packing equipment, doing the King Alfreds Way. This required an "investment" aka splashing out on some lighter kit. Amazingly that rear bag contains a tent (MSR Freelite), airbed (Big Agnes AXL), sleeping bag (PHD minim) and a Sea to Summit pillow. Going to be adding a drybag on the bars with clothes, a small bag on the top tube, and a small rucksack.

The airbed has an inflation bag of 40g. I am replacing that with a tiny pump of 100g which on testing seems amazing and did over 8 refills of my mat based on the charge level when it arrived.

As I will be stealth camping, I am taking a tiny stove and gas bottle so I can have morning coffee. Can't be without that

Can't wait


----------



## Blue Hills (21 Jun 2021)

Can't help but ask why you are taking a suspension bike if you are after minimising weight.

(as you may have guessed am dubious about the entire backpacking thing for most applications - nowt to stop folks just strapping some planetX drybags to a minimalist rack).

tho must admit I am very impressed by what you say is in that rear pack.

and also by your insistence on not ditching the vital coffee - can we see your caffeine injection kit?

Good luck with the trip, look forward to reports, all the best.


----------



## jay clock (21 Jun 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Can't help but ask why you are taking a suspension bike if you are after minimising weight.


Because I have eight bikes already, none of which are anyway suitable other than this one and I seriously cannot justify a further one.

A decent gravel bike it's going to cost me a couple of thousand and won't get a huge amount of use, whereas the lightweight kit can be easily reused on other trips


----------



## cougie uk (21 Jun 2021)

Sounds fun. Do let us know how it goes.


----------



## Blue Hills (21 Jun 2021)

congrats on the eight bikes and not splashing out on a gravel thingie (from what I know of the king alfred i wonder whether one would be appropriate anyway) and also on aiming to re-use stuff across other bikes but no non sus mtb or hybrid?
look forward to seeing your coffee kit - will try to post mine if you do.


----------



## jay clock (21 Jun 2021)

coffee kit is a mug usable to heat water, mini stove, mini gas bottle and some sachets of all in one capucino from Aldi. i would love a real coffee but the weight and ingredients too much hassle

i do have this amazing espresso sized Bialetti that I have had for over 20 years but never used as I just don't like espresso. I'd like a decent sized mug real strong coffee with a fair amount of cold milk. The Aldi sachets are not really going to hack it but at least they are hot and coffee flavour


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Jun 2021)

Can we see contents of bag?


----------



## chriswoody (21 Jun 2021)

Looks a nice compact set up, it's always good to see someone else's bike set up for lightweight touring. 

I'm a big fan of my morning coffee as well and I use a GSI ultralight java drip filter which folds up and nestles in the bottom of a small gas cylinder. You're meant to put freshly ground coffee straight into the filter and gently pour the water over it, but I've found that a couple of coffee filter papers slows the water down enough to produce the strength of coffee I like. I freshly grind some coffee beans at home before I leave and carry just the right amount in a small Nalgene bottle and whilst not perfect, is still a good cup of morning coffee.


----------



## Cathryn (21 Jun 2021)

Laundry, free camping/warm bed, hot meal, strong coffee and cats to play with all available at Avebury


----------



## Cathryn (21 Jun 2021)

jay clock said:


> coffee kit is a mug usable to heat water, mini stove, mini gas bottle and some sachets of all in one capucino from Aldi. i would love a real coffee but the weight and ingredients too much hassle
> 
> i do have this amazing espresso sized Bialetti that I have had for over 20 years but never used as I just don't like espresso. I'd like a decent sized mug real strong coffee with a fair amount of cold milk. The Aldi sachets are not really going to hack it but at least they are hot and coffee flavour
> 
> ...



'All in one cappuccino from Aldi'. Surely you can do a tiny bit better?


----------



## raggydoll (21 Jun 2021)

chriswoody said:


> Looks a nice compact set up, it's always good to see someone else's bike set up for lightweight touring.
> 
> I'm a big fan of my morning coffee as well and I use a GSI ultralight java drip filter which folds up and nestles in the bottom of a small gas cylinder. You're meant to put freshly ground coffee straight into the filter and gently pour the water over it, but I've found that a couple of coffee filter papers slows the water down enough to produce the strength of coffee I like. I freshly grind some coffee beans at home before I leave and carry just the right amount in a small Nalgene bottle and whilst not perfect, is still a good cup of morning coffee.
> 
> ...



What a place to have morning coffee!


----------



## chriswoody (21 Jun 2021)

raggydoll said:


> What a place to have morning coffee!



It certainly was a lovely spot next to a lake. The photo was taken at the wild camp with my son:

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-sons-first-bikepacking-micro-adventure.266354/


----------



## Baldy (21 Jun 2021)

Just make cowboy coffee.


----------



## raggydoll (21 Jun 2021)

chriswoody said:


> It certainly was a lovely spot next to a lake. The photo was taken at the wild camp with my son:
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-sons-first-bikepacking-micro-adventure.266354/



Just read through your adventure.
Sounded amazing.
Looks like your son did well carrying the gear like a boss!


----------



## jay clock (21 Jun 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Can we see contents of bag?


Yes.

View attachment 595187
View attachment 595187

Tent,sleeping bag,airbed,footprint and pillow


----------



## Ming the Merciless (22 Jun 2021)

jay clock said:


> Yes.
> 
> View attachment 595187
> View attachment 595187
> ...



Seem to run into security errors if I try and view the attachments


----------



## jay clock (22 Jun 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Seem to run into security errors if I try and view the attachments


That will be the security from your bank trying to save you money from spending on unnecessary lightweight kit

I had




posted from my phone, try this instead


----------



## cwskas (30 Jun 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> caffeine injection kit


----------



## Oldhippy (30 Jun 2021)

I'd love to think I could do lightweight camping but I just insist on a two man tent minimum but usually take my three man tent. I've tried to talk myself out of it many a time.


----------



## rivers (12 Jul 2021)

Here's my new lightweight set-up.
Clothes and cooking kit in the saddle bag, sleeping bag and mat in the handlebar bag, along with a gas canister. Alpkit Elan hooped bivi strapped to the front of it. In the frame bag is a 2 litre hydration bladder, the bivi pegs and pole. Some easy to cook food and coffee will be going in there as well. In the bottle cage underneath the downtube will be a tool kit with the usual bits, as well as 2 x USB battery packs.
Total weight with a full hydration bladder is about 16.5kgs.


----------



## chriswoody (12 Jul 2021)

That looks nicely set up and light too. I presume you're off on an adventure soon, where to?

I was busy setting mine up today as well for my imminent trip to the Black Forest.






The bag on the front fork is the cooker, gas, mug and a few other sundries for cooking. 920 grams all told.

The other fork leg carries a one litre water bottle and there's two half litre bottles in the frame.

The front roll is my tent, (Alpkit Soloist), sleep mat, inflatable pillow and emergency bivy sac. 2.1 kilos including bag.

Rear bag is for clothes, sleeping bag, sleeping bag liner as well as sundry bits like wash kit, poo trowel, etc. The heaviest at 2.7 kilos including bag.

The frame bag is mostly food, as well as the water filter, power bank and a small ultralight rucksack for shopping trips. I've not weighed this one, but it won't be much.

The top bag is a small 1 litre bag with flapjacks, sunglasses and suncream.

Under the down tube is the tool caddy with hopefully everything I need.

Roughly 6 kilos of equipment, the bike is about 12 kilos (Lardy steel framed adventure bike!). I could get the weight down further, but I'm happy with that.


----------



## rivers (12 Jul 2021)

chriswoody said:


> That looks nicely set up and light too. I presume you're off on an adventure soon, where to?
> 
> I was busy setting mine up today as well for my imminent trip to the Black Forest.
> 
> ...



Nice set-up. I'm off for 5 days through the West country amd Dorset at the end of the month. Mix of road and off-road. First real adventure, and am a bit excited about it.


----------



## Blue Hills (12 Jul 2021)

jay clock said:


> coffee kit is a mug usable to heat water, mini stove, mini gas bottle and some sachets of all in one capucino from Aldi. i would love a real coffee but the weight and ingredients too much hassle
> 
> i do have this amazing espresso sized Bialetti that I have had for over 20 years but never used as I just don't like espresso. I'd like a decent sized mug real strong coffee with a fair amount of cold milk. The Aldi sachets are not really going to hack it but at least they are hot and coffee flavour
> 
> ...


Apologies, meant to reply earlier with my coffee exchange.
My coffee making kit.






cheapo cartridge - you can get those things for between £1 and £2 - enough to power god knows how many coffees.
Chinese adaptor (thing with legs) - cost about £3 - apart from providing a link to the stove ensures that the cartridge stays the right way up so you don't get a massive flare/emergency incident on a stove that doesn't have a preheat tube.
Vango tiddly stove - about £20 - similar things available for less.
Normal domestic espresso pot.
I quite often use this on day rides.
This entire thread puts me to shame though - I am far from minimalist.

edit - the Vango stove in the pic is this:

https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15989044/vango-atom-ultralight-backpacking-stove-15989044


----------



## simongt (12 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> and also by your insistence on not ditching the vital coffee


Understand, but my morning kick is tea, 'soldier's brew'. Can't get going without that - !


----------



## simongt (12 Jul 2021)

On the point of gas stoves, I recently bought a Trangia stove after years of using gas. Should have done it long, long ago. Trangias are so simple, easy to use and just go on and on. Absolutely delighted with it and no issues about having to shelter it from the wind - !


----------



## Blue Hills (12 Jul 2021)

simongt said:


> On the point of gas stoves, I recently bought a Trangia stove after years of using gas. Should have done it long, long ago. Trangias are so simple, easy to use and just go on and on. Absolutely delighted with it and no issues about having to shelter it from the wind - !


agree totally.
an italian acquaintance years ago told me that they were "old fashioned".
old fashioned in that just works/is supremely simple and reliable.
damn the outdoor shop salesguy who later tried to persuade me to buy a super-clever multifuel stove rather than a half price duossal trangia.
Tried to tell me that Trangias were dangerous/that I risked death in a fireball by carrying a trangia fuel bottle under the downtube.
Thankfully didn't buy the multifuel but by the time I figured out that he was\ talking bollocks/trying to sell me up, the Trangia offer had gone.
I now have two Trangias.


----------



## chriswoody (12 Jul 2021)

Trangia's are brilliant, there's no getting away from that, simplicity and reliability as well as the nestled pots and kettle. If ultra light is your goal though, then the standard Trangia is too heavy and bulky. However, Clickstand in America make a super light windscreen and stand for the alcohol burner in a Trangia. Combined with a titanium or aluminum pot, it makes for a super light and reliable stove.


----------



## raggydoll (12 Jul 2021)

simongt said:


> On the point of gas stoves, I recently bought a Trangia stove after years of using gas. Should have done it long, long ago. Trangias are so simple, easy to use and just go on and on. Absolutely delighted with it and no issues about having to shelter it from the wind - !



What model of trangia do you have?


----------



## raggydoll (12 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> agree totally.
> an italian acquaintance years ago told me that they were "old fashioned".
> old fashioned in that just works/is supremely simple and reliable.
> damn the outdoor shop salesguy who later tried to persuade me to buy a super-clever multifuel stove rather than a half price duossal trangia.
> ...



What models are both your trangias?


----------



## Blue Hills (12 Jul 2021)

raggydoll said:


> What models are both your trangias?


one is the 25 hard anodised - will only ever use solo but I had the idea that I needed the bigger size for pasta.
The other is the smaller 27 (damn that scandinavian logic) plain ally which I prefer.
I have bought 1 or 2 duossal bits since - damn again that upselling outdoor shop bloke.
In general I prefer stuff that isn't trying to be non-stick.
I also have this but have never used.
https://www.addnature.co.uk/318026.html


----------



## raggydoll (12 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> one is the 25 hard anodised - will only ever use solo but I had the idea that I needed the bigger size for pasta.
> The other is the smaller 27 (damn that scandinavian logic) plain ally which I prefer.
> I have bought 1 or 2 duossal bits since - damn again that upselling outdoor shop stuff.
> In general I prefer stuff that isn't trying to be non-stick.
> ...



Cool. I have a 25 aluminium.
Always wondered if it would be worth getting a 27 too but so used to the larger size of the 25.

Love the idea of the mini (28) too for a little lightweight day ride lunch!


----------



## Baldy (12 Jul 2021)

Trangia's are very heavy and quite a bit big for my use, when not using gas I have a Speedster Universal Windscreen and Pot Rest for pans Dia 100mm to 120mm - speedsterstoves all I need. Takes either my 700ml pot or my 550ml mug.


----------



## tribanjules (12 Jul 2021)

Just ordered the Swedish army trangia kit as it’s smaller than my normal kit


----------



## simongt (14 Jul 2021)

raggydoll said:


> What model of trangia do you have?


I have the 27, as I use it for solo camping. Didn't buy the kettle with it but bought one later and glad I did. Make the arrangement much more versatile with the two bowls and it holds just the right amount of water for my large tea mug - !


----------



## simongt (14 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> an italian acquaintance years ago told me that they were "old fashioned".


As the design has been going for about a hundred years, virtually unchanged, he may have a point - ! 
However, if it ain't broke, don't fix it - !


----------



## MichaelW2 (14 Jul 2021)

I did a 3 month tour cooking real food, not the packs of "just add hot water" with Trangia. I did one 3 course meal with a steak but mostly rice, pasta or couscus type dishes.
I found the slower cook time to be no disadvantage. I could prepare camp in the time it took a kettle to boil. I set the kettle up for morning coffee. The simmer ring takes a bit of practice and leatherman pliers.
They are tip proof and pretty safe. I had one incident with high purity German rocket fuel which boilled over flaming alcohol. That stuff needed to be watered down. I never cooked in the tent.
I really love my T27.


----------



## MichaelW2 (14 Jul 2021)

Firebox Nano is another Trangia burner holder that also doubles up as a twig fuelled stove and for triple the fun can be setup to burn Swedish Torch style vertical split logs for 40min burn time. They pack flat, fit in a back pocket and come in steel or ti.


----------



## RoMeR (16 Jul 2021)

I've used a Trangia setup on & off for years but about 3 years ago I went much lighter with a burner and windshield from Speedster Stoves combined with a Alpkit 650m titanium mug. Highly recommend Speedster for choice of lightweight cooking gear.


----------



## tribanjules (16 Jul 2021)

My Swedish army surplus meths cooking kit arrived in the post. Need a trial run now


----------



## mudsticks (16 Jul 2021)

RoMeR said:


> I've used a Trangia setup on & off for years but about 3 years ago I went much lighter with a burner and windshield from Speedster Stoves combined with a Alpkit 650m titanium mug. Highly recommend Speedster for choice of lightweight cooking gear.


----------



## RoMeR (17 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> View attachment 599432


Is that a Caldera cone or a Stormin Norman setup?


----------



## mmmmartin (17 Jul 2021)

tribanjules said:


> My Swedish army surplus meths cooking kit arrived in the post. Need a trial run now


I've had one for years and it's brilliant. Not the lightest but probably the cheapest, and certainly bombproof. 
Arrive at campsite: light this thing up, place to one side: put up tent and have everything sorted perhaps including shower if possible: return to stove which is now silently bubbling away.
In the morning: light stove then take down tent and pack everything away: return to stove which has been silently bubbling away in the corner, unattended.
What more could you possibly want?
Also: you can buy meths anywhere but be careful of the meths in Spain that can be bought in supermarkets and which is a cleaning fluid and doesn't burn as the alcohol content is too low. You need to buy it from a DIY place or perhaps a pharmacy. Be careful though.
DAHIKT.


----------



## tribanjules (17 Jul 2021)

Wickes had 500 ml of meths at £4 yesterday!!! Is that normal?
Last fluid I bought was eco ethanol equivalent


----------



## HobbesOnTour (17 Jul 2021)

tribanjules said:


> Wickes had 500 ml of meths at £4 yesterday!!! Is that normal?
> Last fluid I bought was eco ethanol equivalent


Possibly Covid related. A lot of alcohol has been diverted to gels/spray.


----------



## mudsticks (17 Jul 2021)

RoMeR said:


> Is that a Caldera cone or a Stormin Norman setup?



Caldera


----------



## RoMeR (17 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> Caldera


I was considering buying one but can't warrant another system, I say that now but I'm weak.


----------



## mudsticks (17 Jul 2021)

RoMeR said:


> I was considering buying one but can't warrant another system, I say that now but I'm weak.



I would recommend .

So light, so robust and functional .

Not cheap.

But like they say, you can't have all three ..


----------



## Baldy (17 Jul 2021)

I've been think about what to take on my holidays,





This is what I've come up with.
Front roll bag, (Restrap)

Tent, Trekkertent Phreeranger less pole and pegs.

Waterproof Jacket and Trouser, Mountain equipment Firefox Gore Tex.

Rab Xenon Vest.

Rab Borealis windshirt. (Midgie proof)

Rab vapoure-rise Gilet.

Light fleece sweeter.

Ron Hill Tracksters. 3.5kg



Frame bag, (Lomo)

Tent pole and pegs.

Pump.

Tools, puncture repair kit, Multi tool, Mini mole grips, two small spanners, Co2 tyre inflater and spare cartridge.

Spare inner tube.

Gas canister 250.

Midge headnet.

Smidge. 2.2kg



Saddle bag, (Apidura)

Sleeping bag, PHD Minimus.

Sleeping mat Thermarest NeoAir.

Pump for Thermarest.

Toaks 550ml pot/mug Titanium.

BRS 50000 gas stove.*

Two Cricket lighters.*

Plastic tea spoon.*

Small bag of Tiger coils.*

Small repair kit*, Thermarest puncture kit, Spinnaker tape (50mm x 500mm), needle and thread, stick on patches.

.* = lives inside pot.

Cossy for freeze dry food bags.

Toilet paper + hand gel 50ml.

Long handle spoon.

Toothpaste, tooth brush, very small piece of soap, 12inch square microfibre towel.

Petzl headlight.

Swiss Army knife.

2lt Platypus bladder.

First aid kit, handful of mixed plasters, a few Antiseptic wipes, a roll of 1inch tape, 1x #14 wound dressing, 1x 10 x 10cm absorbent dressing, 1x 10 x 10cm Jelonet dressing, 2 x tick hooks, Ibuprofen, Paracetamol.

Beeny hat, gloves.

Power pack 10000mAh + leads.

Food, 3x freeze dry meals, 3x porridge + red berries in Soup n’Sauce bags. Bag of Tea.

3.2kg

 

Tank bag, (Alpkit)

Assorted biscuit bars.



Front Clip-on bag, (Restrap).

Camera kit,

GoPro 8,

Canon EOS 50M + 22mm lens, 55 – 200mm Zoom lens,

Batteries,

Manfrotto table top tripod.

GoPro handlebar mount.

GoPro chest harness.

MonKey Mic MCm-1

Zoom H1n sound recorder.



Possible extra Sirui SR1217623 Carbon tripod.

Just realized I've mist off spare socks and pants. 

There's three packet meals and three breakfasts for the nights where I'll not be camping near any shops. I'm still deciding whether to use that bike or my Mountain bike, but the kit will still be the same.


----------



## simongt (17 Jul 2021)

Ref. Trangia fuel, I bought 6 x 1ltr. bottle of bioethanol fuel from Amazon for £20, much cheaper than GO Outdoors. Efficent & cleanish burning, just gives off CO2 and H2O. Only minor 'issue' is that the flame is almost invisible to begin with, so putting a hand over the burner is the best way to see if it's alight - !


----------



## uphillstruggler (18 Jul 2021)

tribanjules said:


> My Swedish army surplus meths cooking kit arrived in the post. Need a trial run now


@tribanjules , if you don’t mind, where did you get that from?


----------



## tribanjules (18 Jul 2021)

uphillstruggler said:


> @tribanjules , if you don’t mind, where did you get that from?


Surplus place on eBay. Came very quickly and in good condition.
I also bought eco friendly meths substitute from GO outdoors £5 a litre instead of meths £4 for 500ml at wickes


----------



## The Fitter (18 Jul 2021)

I use Ekofuel Bio ethanol fuel in my trangia and it works great, no soot or fumes. I get mine from ekofuel. org and it works out at £2.40 per litre because i buy 12 bottles at a time.


----------



## jay clock (20 Jul 2021)

mmmmartin said:


> I've had one for years and it's brilliant. Not the lightest but probably the cheapest, and certainly bombproof.
> Arrive at campsite: light this thing up, place to one side: put up tent and have everything sorted perhaps including shower if possible: return to stove which is now silently bubbling away.
> In the morning: light stove then take down tent and pack everything away: return to stove which has been silently bubbling away in the corner, unattended.
> *What more could you possibly want?*
> ...


How does that work if you stop for a cup of tea along the way? I'm not gonna wait half an hour for it to boil


----------



## HobbesOnTour (20 Jul 2021)

jay clock said:


> How does that work if you stop for a cup of tea along the way? I'm not gonna wait half an hour for it to boil



Why spend a few hours cycling from A to B when I can do it in 20 minutes in a car?

I've often spent far more than half an hour at a nice place on the side of the road.

I recently did a test on my Trangia and it took 8 minutes to boil the kettle (750 ml I think) at an altitude of 3500 meters.
It's perfectly safe to leave unattended as alluded to above and for longer tasks the adjustable lid can be deployed. If it takes me 30 minutes to make some coffee that'll be my choice, not the system.


----------



## simongt (25 Jul 2021)

jay clock said:


> I'm not gonna wait half an hour for it to boil


That's what I half expected when I bought my Trangia, but at the first brew, the kettle was boiling in less than nine minutes. Caught me out, but at least I had my cuppa sooner that I'd thought - !


----------



## mudsticks (25 Jul 2021)

You can get 500 ml of water boiling in just over six minutes with an alcohol stove.

How do I know this ??

Because i do quite a lot of my multiday hikes with someone who actually spends a small portion of his time nerding over this stuff.

Nerdery which is largely indulged -
nay encouraged - on account of it getting _me_ a decent brew, pdq.



As Mr Hobbes opines, if you're in such a big ol' rush, why go by bike at all ??


----------



## Baldy (25 Jul 2021)

It's not how long it takes, it's how much fuel you need. Over a weekend you won't need that much and you can keep your alcohol in a lightweight container. But alcohol has a lower calorific value than gas (butane, propane etc), so you use less gas than alcohol for the same result. Over a short trip the weight of the canister out weighs this advantage. For longer trips the extra alcohol you would need per day soon adds up and after about four days the weight becomes greater than the weight of gas + can. So for longer trips it's gas, for quick overnights it's alcohol. 

It also depends on which fuel is available where you're going of course.


----------



## mudsticks (25 Jul 2021)

Baldy said:


> It's not how long it takes, it's how much fuel you need. Over a weekend you won't need that much and you can keep your alcohol in a lightweight container. But alcohol has a lower calorific value than gas (butane, propane etc), so you use less gas than alcohol for the same result. Over a short trip the weight of the canister out weighs this advantage. For longer trips the extra alcohol you would need per day soon adds up and after about four days the weight becomes greater than the weight of gas + can. So for longer trips it's gas, for quick overnights it's alcohol.
> 
> It also depends on which fuel is available where you're going of course.



I think how often you can resupply, and what is available makes a huge difference too..

I used to be more keen on gas.

But it's definitely more expensive for a prolonged trip.
Plus there's that tendency to take a spate canister just in case you run out.

So then you've got the weight of two canisters. 

Unless you very carefully, count and log your brews there's a touch of uncertainty as to what you've got left in a gas canister.

Whereas with meths or alcohol, it's very visible.

Of course on a bike overall weight carried is _slightly_ less crucial than when backpacking.

But on balance I'd be slightly more likely to take gas rather than meths on just a one or two night trip .

But pretty much always meths if going for longer.

I think I also like the enclosed and safer feeling of meths, all round, especially if you have to brew up inside your porch on foul weather days..


----------



## Ming the Merciless (25 Jul 2021)

Baldy said:


> I've been think about what to take on my holidays,
> 
> 
> View attachment 599556
> ...



With vapourise gilet I would not bother with windshirt.


----------



## Baldy (25 Jul 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> With vapourise gilet I would not bother with windshirt.


Yes should be one or the other really, the windshirt is midge proof a big consideration up here (Scotland).


----------



## Vantage (25 Jul 2021)

I'm with @jay clock on waiting for water to boil. When I want a cup of tea/coffee, I don't expect to wait forever for it. 
My own rig is a stand alone stove with a preheat tube and if needed, an alloy windshield. 500ml will be boiling in about 1min 30sec. Roughly.
Setup camp and then sit and relax with a brew.
I've struggled finding meths and the bottle cages on the bike are used to hold water.
If I need a guess at how much gas is left in the cannister I give it a shake. I have an adapter to use those cheapo long upright cannisters if I'm desperate. The cannister fits inside the pots and the stove is stored in a bag with a lighter and spork set.


----------



## mudsticks (26 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> I'm with @jay clock on waiting for water to boil. When I want a cup of tea/coffee, I don't expect to wait forever for it.
> My own rig is a stand alone stove with a preheat tube and if needed, an alloy windshield. 500ml will be boiling in about 1min 30sec. Roughly.
> Setup camp and then sit and relax with a brew.
> I've struggled finding meths and the bottle cages on the bike are used to hold water.
> If I need a guess at how much gas is left in the cannister I give it a shake. I have an adapter to use those cheapo long upright cannisters if I'm desperate. The cannister fits inside the pots and the stove is stored in a bag with a lighter and spork set.



Its horses for courses I guess.

I quite like sitting and looking at the view, whilst waiting that whole five minutes for the water to boil.

Plus meths/alcohol is quiet* and you don't have spent canisters to dispose of.

Both systems have their place, and pros and cons really though, if they didn't, we wouldn't still have such a variety of options.

*Then I cancel out all this peace and quiet by taking one of those little fan pumps - depending on which sleep mat, I'm taking.


----------



## MichaelW2 (26 Jul 2021)

I have made a fair few roadside cuppas and noodles and never really had an issue with time. Some people empty out the burner but I have travelled with a shot of meths in it. As soon as you stop, whip it out and within a minute you are cooking. You can then admire the view, do some navigation or whatever and in about 8mins you are done. Boil time varies with fuel.
I carried mine in a 1L tough plastic bottle that German fuel come in. I also used a 250cc yogourt drink bottle for transition to a new 1l purchase. 2xTrangia 500cc bottles are probably better to pack and use. The fuel weight you need to carry depends on local supply. I never needed more than 1l which lasted much more than a week, maybe 2.


----------



## Vantage (26 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> *Then I cancel out all this peace and quiet by taking one of those little fan pumps - depending on which sleep mat, I'm taking.



Haha yep. They're noisy wee buggers.


----------



## mudsticks (26 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> Haha yep. They're noisy wee buggers.


It always feels a bit intrusive to start it up in some wild and peaceful upland place, even if there's only me to disturb..

OTOH I've seen how much grim gunk that can grow inside air mats blown up by breath, so needs must.

Pump sack / schnozzle bag is ok if you've got reliably dry weather to use it outside, but it's a bit tricky inside a smallish tent in the rain.

atm I'm mostly using a thermarest with one of those funky speedvalves. But even doing that inside can be a bit awkward..
You have to sort of lie underneath it, while you blow into the aperture.


----------



## Vantage (26 Jul 2021)

I bought one today that has a built in camp light that I swear is as bright as the sun if need be and weighs half what my previous one did.
Money well spent imo


----------



## Blue Hills (27 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> I bought one today that has a built in camp light that I swear is as bright as the sun if need be and weighs half what my previous one did.
> Money well spent imo


came across these a while ago but admit to being a bit dubious.
If the inside of my mat is less than sterile does it really matter?
also I like to minimise electronic gubbins and the noise seems hellish, particularly if I'm trying to lurk in a wood.
(and admit it vantage you bought the new one because it colour co-ordinates with your mat)
But I'd be interested in a link for the new one.


----------



## mudsticks (27 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> I bought one today that has a built in camp light that I swear is as bright as the sun if need be and weighs half what my previous one did.
> Money well spent imo


How much did your previous one weigh.?

I've had the thermarest (little grey fliptop) one for several years, and without the battery it weighs practically nothing.
Well maybe 20 grams or so.

Doesn't the light add unnecessary weigh back in, given you presumably have a head torch and or bike light with you.

Oh lor, get me nerding over grams I'll stop now.



Blue Hills said:


> came across these a while ago but admit to being a bit dubious.
> If the inside of my may is less than sterile does it really matter?
> also I like to minimise electronic gubbins and the noise seems hellish, particularly if I'm trying to lurk in a wood.
> (and admit it vantage you bought the new one because it colour co-ordinates with your mat)
> But I'd be interested in a link for the new one.



Depends on the type of mat.

The expensive lightweight insulated ones with lots of delicate internal baffles can get damaged by moisture plus bacterial growth .

i know someone who bought a same model replacement, for their mat, and found that the old mat weighed nearly 100 g more.

Can only have been the black mould, from moist breath, growing inside.

Apart from the serious yuck factor, and potential damage caused, that's extra weight.!!

Oh lor , there I go again..


----------



## Vantage (27 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> came across these a while ago but admit to being a bit dubious.
> If the inside of my may is less than sterile does it really matter?
> also I like to minimise electronic gubbins and the noise seems hellish, particularly if I'm trying to lurk in a wood.
> (and admit it vantage you bought the new one because it colour co-ordinates with your mat)
> But I'd be interested in a link for the new one.



@mudsticks gives a reasonable explanation on the performance issues due to bacteria although my own mat is a pretty simple affair. To date, my mats have been changed/upgraded more or less every year so I'm not sure how much bacteria has grown in there, but just the thought of it on/in otherwise pristine gear? Ugh. No thanks.
I turned to these wee pumps after feeling like I was about to pass out while inflating a 2" thick mat and pillow on the wotr tour.
I'm with you on the electronic gizmos issue. It's more sh** to drag around and go wrong. The noise from the pump could probably wake the undead in a nearby pyramid but as long as I don't pitch too close to others I doubt anyone will mind. 2 minutes total run time to inflate the mat and pillow. I'd rather that than 10 mins torturing my already wussy lungs.

@mudsticks going off Amazon's listings, the previous pump is 150g. The new one is 80g.
It's about half the size but apparently runs for 20 mins on a single charge. I don't believe that includes run time for the lamp. I'll be testing that myself later.
My old tent lamp weighs at a guess...50g....ish.

Linky


----------



## mudsticks (27 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> @mudsticks gives a reasonable explanation on the performance issues due to bacteria although my own mat is a pretty simple affair. To date, my mats have been changed/upgraded more or less every year so I'm not sure how much bacteria has grown in there, but just the thought of it on/in otherwise pristine gear? Ugh. No thanks.
> I turned to these wee pumps after feeling like I was about to pass out while inflating a 2" thick mat and pillow on the wotr tour.
> I'm with you on the electronic gizmos issue. It's more sh** to drag around and go wrong. The noise from the pump could probably wake the undead in a nearby pyramid but as long as I don't pitch too close to others I doubt anyone will mind. 2 minutes total run time to inflate the mat and pillow. I'd rather that than 10 mins torturing my already wussy lungs.
> 
> ...



Yours must have been seriously noisy then.

Mines probs sounds like the combined whine of say ten mosquitoes.

A few yards from the tent you can barely hear it .

I've never had it fail on me , except a failed battery , but that's user error.

A couple of triple A batteries isn't monster heavy back up to carry.


----------



## Baldy (27 Jul 2021)

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.c.../mat-accessories-c60/neoair-micro-pump-p12953
48g I think, runs on two AAA's can't hear it more than a couple of feet away. Made for the new style nozzles, I have the old style. A little bit of plastic hose fixed it.


----------



## mudsticks (27 Jul 2021)

Baldy said:


> https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.c.../mat-accessories-c60/neoair-micro-pump-p12953
> 48g I think, runs on two AAA's can't hear it more than a couple of feet away. Made for the new style nozzles, I have the old style. A little bit of plastic hose fixed it.



Mines 72g (with 2x AAA batteries)

You win..

Not that it's a competition mind


----------



## Blue Hills (27 Jul 2021)

ta mudsticks and vantage for replies - will keep an eye on but still dubious.
Find it hard to believe that internal bacteria will destroy anything of any substance but then I don't go for the new superlight mats - I don't trust them.
I have an "old fashioned" thermarest which is 20 years old.
Plus some other things including two air only things (no insulation) from Lidl and Alpkit.
Any bacteria inside a mat I see as no more threat to my health or stomach than whatever might be lurking in my domestic plumbing - breathing out all over me as I sleep. ooh yuk shock horror probe!
I stay away from anything using AAAs as much as possible.

@Vantage 
>>To date, my mats have been changed/upgraded more or less every year

What on earth are you doing to them, if I dare ask?

by the by vantage I appreciate your individual health concerns.


----------



## Vantage (28 Jul 2021)

@Blue Hills Upgrades dear sir! Upgrades 
First mat was a Lichfield 1 inch self inflating thing that could only be rolled up to the size of steel bollard. Gone to homeless folk.
Second was a 2 inch something or other self inflating thing that could only be rolled up to the size of a small traffic island. That's gone to homeless folk too.
Third was a Decathlon air only thing that is the size of a coke can. I bought 2 of those.
Fourth were 3 more Frenchie things that self inflated for the kids but Pam and I tried them last weekend. 1 inch of horribleness.
Fifth was a Klymit ultra light blah blah longest name ever for a mat that I used on wotr and still use from time to time.
And then there's the newbie Trekology UL80 which asides from a lack of thermal stuff, is bloody awesome.
There's a double self inflating thing in the camping cupboard too. Again, 'orrible.

I seriously need to get rid of some mats


----------



## Blue Hills (28 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> And then there's the newbie Trekology UL80 which asides from a lack of thermal stuff, is bloody awesome.



would be interested in how you get on with this - what temps you have used it at.
Also how durable it proves to be - have read varying reports.
Hope it lasts more than a year.
I plan to be using my alpkit airmat in a wood very soon - warmish temps of course.


----------



## jay clock (28 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> Its horses for courses I guess.
> 
> I quite like sitting and looking at the view, whilst waiting that whole five minutes for the water to boil.
> 
> ...


yes, 5 mins fine, but @mmmmartin described boiling up while tent pitching and showering as being do-able, which sounds like a good 20-30 mins


----------



## mudsticks (28 Jul 2021)

jay clock said:


> yes, 5 mins fine, but @mmmmartin described boiling up while tent pitching and showering as being do-able, which sounds like a good 20-30 mins



Well I guess it also depends on how long you take to pitch up..







This is my preferred bike touring tent atm.

Its called a 'Moment' because that's about how long it takes to put up..

(Well 3 mins maybe)

Please excuse the mess , it looks like I might have been having breakfast by this point..


----------



## Vantage (28 Jul 2021)

Couldn't squeeze a leprechaun in that thing.


----------



## mudsticks (28 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> Couldn't squeeze a leprechaun in that thing.



Well that's fine, cos I don't really want a Leprechaun in there with me..

It does, however, accommodate me (at 5'10" )

And my super luxe neotherm long, wide and thick very nicely.

For less than 1.4 kg.. (the tent)

A consideration worth considering, if, like me, you tend to tour in the hillier parts of the world


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> Couldn't squeeze a leprechaun in that thing.


how's about this?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fctkjDqqPA

Far more compact to pack and lighter than a tarp and bivi set-up, particularly my bigger tarp.
Don't use it for touring though - just one or two nights away on long rides/trips.
Will be using it this weekend somewhere furtive.


----------



## Vantage (29 Jul 2021)

I think I'll stick to my 4kg decathlon tent. 
Heavy, but very comfy


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> I think I'll stick to my 4kg decathlon tent.
> Heavy, but very comfy
> 
> View attachment 601481


4kg!
I may be able to beat that with a 3 person super reinforced (to cope with heavy scout use) Vango dome I got at a very good price. Haven't dared to put it on the bike yet - I think I will only use it for very local trips to hole up somewhere for a couple of days. Maybe in winter with a couple of good books.

Is that pic a genuine wildcamp or were you just practicing?


----------



## Vantage (29 Jul 2021)

No I'm not brave enough to try wild camping. I plan to someday but it might be a while.
That sir is Jerusalem Farm campsite just north of Mytholmroyd be Hebden Bridge.
It's a council run site/public park. Absolutely gorgeous place to camp with a river running alongside it. Facilities at the top of a hill so you could treat as wild if you avoid those.
This was last weekend when Pam, I and the mutt planned on staying 2 nights. We left early coz a bunch of nobs turned up with a crate load of beer and we didn't fancy that sort of company. Previous stays (6 or 7) have been brilliant.
£8 a night. You'd love it.


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> No I'm not brave enough to try wild camping. I plan to someday but it might be a while.
> That sir is Jerusalem Farm campsite just north of Mytholmroyd be Hebden Bridge.
> It's a council run site/public park. Absolutely gorgeous place to camp with a river running alongside it. Facilities at the top of a hill so you could treat as wild if you avoid those.
> This was last weekend when Pam, I and the mutt planned on staying 2 nights. We left early coz a bunch of nobs turned up with a crate load of beer and we didn't fancy that sort of company. Previous stays (6 or 7) have been brilliant.
> £8 a night. You'd love it.


thanks for the recommendation - sounds ideal for the Vango bunker as a base for some day rides.


----------



## mudsticks (29 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> I think I'll stick to my 4kg decathlon tent.
> Heavy, but very comfy
> 
> View attachment 601481


Yikes 4kg ..

But I guess you can share the weight carrying between the two of you??

Nothing to be scared of with wildcamping.

The name doesn't imply there will be lions and bears..

Well not unless you're in the Rockies maybe.
🐻🐯

The worst you're likely to encounter in the UK is an over attentive badger 🐼


----------



## HelenD123 (29 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> The worst you're likely to encounter in the UK is an over attentive badger 🐼


Some friends got invaded by a badger when camping near Ullswater. We got woken by the cry of 'the badger is eating my moisturiser'


----------



## Vantage (29 Jul 2021)

mudsticks said:


> But I guess you can share the weight carrying between the two of you??
> 
> Nothing to be scared of with wildcamping.



No no, this was car camping. Except cars aren't allowed on that site. 
I cycle tour on my lonesome. No friends. Nobody loves me. 
Pam isn't the cycling type unfortunately.

It's the chance of being woken/mugged by some chavy scrote/official. 
I'm a wuss


----------



## mudsticks (29 Jul 2021)

Vantage said:


> No no, this was car camping. Except cars aren't allowed on that site.
> I cycle tour on my lonesome. No friends. Nobody loves me.
> Pam isn't the cycling type unfortunately.
> 
> ...



Ah that makes sense..
I thought you must have strong legs elsewise.

I cycle tour on my lonesome too.

Not cos no one loves me, but because I love a bit of solo travel..

Getting away from the everyday routine etc etc.

You get to meet all sorts along the way .

Very rarely chavvy scrotes, or scarey officials .

They tend not to hang out in the wilder places..


----------



## Baldy (29 Jul 2021)

I wild camp precisely because there's far less chance of encounters of the dick head kind. I've camped out in Kenya, lions etc, Central America, jaguar, flur du lance etc, South America, Puma, Finland, wolves and bears, never been bothered. Insects, rodents, drunks are far more likely to be a pest.


----------



## mudsticks (29 Jul 2021)

Baldy said:


> I wild camp precisely because there's far less chance of encounters of the dick head kind. I've camped out in Kenya, lions etc, Central America, jaguar, flur du lance etc, South America, Puma, Finland, wolves and bears, never been bothered. Insects, rodents, drunks are far more likely to be a pest.



Ooo I'd love to camp in proximity to wolves *
But I draw the line at bears of the grizzly sort..

Brown or black are ok 

Had a few close encounters with wild boar, but they're fine generally , just in a bit of a rush sometimes >>>>>>

*I say that on a sunny midday in Devon, mind.

Put me in a pine forest at night , surrounded by the howls I might not be so brave


----------



## HelenD123 (29 Jul 2021)

Camping with bears is anxiety inducing but raccoons are the real nuisance.

I think we've taken this thread somewhat off topic...


----------



## mudsticks (29 Jul 2021)

HelenD123 said:


> Camping with bears is anxiety inducing but raccoons are the real nuisance.
> 
> I think we've taken this thread somewhat off topic...



Lightweight racoon repellant ideas..



HelenD123 said:


> Some friends got invaded by a badger when camping near Ullswater. We got woken by the cry of 'the badger is eating my moisturiser'



Had one camper here repeatedly bothered by a badger for about three nights in a row, despite all attempts to deter it with a wind up radio*, and a fire .

It just wouldn't go away.

Can only surmise she was pitched directly on a Brocken, ley line or somesuch..

* either that or it was determined to listen to the shipping forecast


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> 4kg!
> I may be able to beat that with a 3 person super reinforced (to cope with heavy scout use) Vango dome I got at a very good price. Haven't dared to put it on the bike yet - I think I will only use it for very local trips to hole up somewhere for a couple of days. Maybe in winter with a couple of good books.
> 
> Is that pic a genuine wildcamp or were you just practicing?


well @Vantage turns out I can top your mere 4kg - after some searching
Ladies and gents, the Vango Halo 300 XD.
https://www.dofe.org/shopping/recommendation/vango-halo-xd-300-tent/
5.12kg!!

I could maybe shave a slight bit off it by not using its extra heavy duty pegs.
Now discontinued, possibly because some poor scout expired dragging it up a hill.
It does sit on my bike rack OK but haven't yet ridden with it.
It's one hell of a beast - it's the normal Halo with reinforced flysheet, probably groundsheet, fixing points, pegs and even extra heavy duty zips.
Thanks to a bungle by the folks I bought it off (for about £130) I also have a virtually complete spare set of poles so pretty confident it will outlive me/become a family vault.


----------



## Baldy (29 Jul 2021)

I've got a Halo 200 but only use it for car camping so haven't actually had it out for about three years, a friend had the 300 but sold it as it was just to big.


----------



## Blue Hills (30 Jul 2021)

Baldy said:


> I've got a Halo 200 but only use it for car camping so haven't actually had it out for about three years, a friend had the 300 but sold it as it was just to big.


I bought it after someone on another forum raved and raved about it (tho that was the unreinforced one) and what a great idea it was to have the luxury of a 3 person tent for one. He later posted that on a tour he had had to cycle for miles and miles of evenings reccying wildcamp places it would actually fit in. You get this odd behaviour from folks sometimes. The Halo 200 looks good - saw one years ago and that's also why I was tempted to get the 300.


----------



## HelenD123 (30 Jul 2021)

I tried and failed at the lightweight packing. It was a shock getting on a loaded bike again.


----------



## mudsticks (31 Jul 2021)

HelenD123 said:


> I tried and failed at the lightweight packing. It was a shock getting on a loaded bike again.



Where are you off to .??


----------



## tyred (31 Jul 2021)

Lightweight isn't part of my vocabulary. 

I can manage to fill a saddle bag even for a day ride


----------



## HobbesOnTour (31 Jul 2021)

Amateurs!
5kg including groundsheet, all guylines, pegs for various surfaces ...... and cat patches


----------



## Blue Hills (1 Aug 2021)

tyred said:


> Lightweight isn't part of my vocabulary.
> 
> I can manage to fill a saddle bag even for a day ride


I've quite often near filled two largish rear panniers for a day ride, especially during lockdowns.


----------



## carpiste (1 Aug 2021)

Surely in these modern times the easiest and lightest way to go is bike, pannier with a few choice snacks, 2 water bottles, spare clothing and tubes and tools and most importantly a credit card!
Credit cards will get you into a nice motel, hotel, b&b. You can have a great sleep then go to the places you would have camped in and spend time, nicely refreshed, looking at everything around the site you would have missed during the night!


----------



## Blue Hills (1 Aug 2021)

carpiste said:


> Surely in these modern times the easiest and lightest way to go is bike, pannier with a few choice snacks, 2 water bottles, spare clothing and tubes and tools and most importantly a credit card!
> Credit cards will get you into a nice motel, hotel, b&b. You can have a great sleep then go to the places you would have camped in and spend time, nicely refreshed, looking at everything around the site you would have missed during the night!


a joke i realise but apart from the added expense I don't want the hassle of checking in to a place, sorting bike storage etc etc, and as I tour alone can think of few things worse than staring at four walls and a telly of an evening. Would much rather sit around enjoying the fresh air, nature, nattering to folk etc.


----------



## mudsticks (1 Aug 2021)

carpiste said:


> Surely in these modern times the easiest and lightest way to go is bike, pannier with a few choice snacks, 2 water bottles, spare clothing and tubes and tools and most importantly a credit card!
> Credit cards will get you into a nice motel, hotel, b&b. You can have a great sleep then go to the places you would have camped in and spend time, nicely refreshed, looking at everything around the site you would have missed during the night!



Mmmm.

Yeah, sure it's nice to have a room for the night now and then.

But it's also pretty special to get sunsets and sunrises in places like this.






With lightweight touring gear, you've got options, and there's not 'solid' accomodation available everywhere.


----------



## HelenD123 (1 Aug 2021)

mudsticks said:


> Where are you off to .??


I've been to the North York Moors, then cycled back to York today.


----------



## mudsticks (1 Aug 2021)

HelenD123 said:


> I've been to the North York Moors, then cycled back to York today.



Ace, which way did you come back?
Via the Wold's?

Last time I cycled across the NYM it was really wet, still fun though , in that dogged cycling in the rain type stylee.


----------



## HelenD123 (1 Aug 2021)

mudsticks said:


> Ace, which way did you come back?
> Via the Wold's?
> 
> Last time I cycled across the NYM it was really wet, still fun though , in that dogged cycling in the rain type stylee.


I was on the western edge so via Hawnby and Easingwold. It was tough cycling and pushing my loaded bike up the hill out of Hawnby.


----------



## cwskas (2 Aug 2021)

mudsticks said:


> But it's also pretty special to get sunsets and sunrises in places like this.


Indeed! I prefer to camp even if I am on a long car trip by myself.


----------

