# Paris - Nice 2016 **spoilers**



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

http://www.letour.com/indexPNC_us.html


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

Lotto Soudal have their giant syringes at the ready


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## Tenacious Sloth (6 Mar 2016)

I don't suppose this is available free-to-view in the UK?

Edit: Just checked. That'll be a no then. 

Graham


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2016)

That poster is rather unfortunate.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> That poster is rather unfortunate.


It is, I have no idea why someone did not look at it and think "giant syringes are probably not a good idea"


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

Possibly the world's dullest ever cycling graphic?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> I don't suppose this is available free-to-view in the UK?
> 
> Edit: Just checked. That'll be a no then.
> 
> Graham


Try this link at about 12.30pm
http://www.cyclinghub.tv/livestream

Edit - or this link suggests 1.15pm is also an option
http://www.cricfree.tv/


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## mjr (6 Mar 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> I don't suppose this is available free-to-view in the UK?


Yes but you'll need to point a satellite dish at 5°west. I'm sat in Norfolk watching France3 that way right now.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

A prologue win for Bling


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## Crackle (6 Mar 2016)




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## mjr (6 Mar 2016)

What interval were they setting off at? It seemed like we missed a couple of high finishers finishing.


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## SWSteve (6 Mar 2016)

Vichot 28" down already. I think my chances in punditry just trotted off


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## mjr (6 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Vichot 28" down already. I think my chances in punditry just trotted off


Only 12" behind Beefy. Might be OK if he can throw a bungee around his seat post and fire past him into each finish 

These early stage races are rather hard to predict.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Vichot 28" down already. I think my chances in punditry just trotted off


I think they trotted off as soon as you hit the "V" key...


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## CaadX (6 Mar 2016)

Well if 'G' does not win this in the form he should be in ? Goodnight Vienna to GTs sorry M8.


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## smutchin (6 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Vichot 28" down already. I think my chances in punditry just trotted off



Much as I admire Matinée Idol Arthur Vichot's cheekbones, I laughed heartily when I saw that you'd backed him to actually win a bike race.

(Yes, I know he won the Tour du Haut-Var recently, but... well, it's the Tour du Haut-Var, isn't it.)


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## huwsparky (6 Mar 2016)

CaadX said:


> Well if 'G' does not win this in the form he should be in ? Goodnight Vienna to GTs sorry M8.


I've read this post 3 times and still have no idea what you're saying.... And yes, I do know who 'G' is.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Mar 2016)

The spoils of the day


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## CaadX (6 Mar 2016)

D


huwsparky said:


> I've read this post 3 times and still have no idea what you're saying.... And yes, I do know who 'G' is.


Do not worry unduly neither does anyone else you'ii get used to it


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## SWSteve (6 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> Much as I admire Matinée Idol Arthur Vichot's cheekbones, I laughed heartily when I saw that you'd backed him to actually win a bike race.
> 
> (Yes, I know he won the Tour du Haut-Var recently, but... well, it's the Tour du Haut-Var, isn't it.)




I thought I would take a punt. There's no fun of we all pick Porte...


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## mjr (7 Mar 2016)

Call that gravel track? Where are the craters grudgingly so-called "repaired" by the landowning farmer by wedging a few cut up house bricks into it?


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## Hont (7 Mar 2016)

Ben Swift just edged out. Not the best sprint I've ever witnessed. I've seen straighter pigs tails


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I thought I would take a punt. There's no fun of we all pick Porte...



Arguably, Vichot is less of a punt than Porte!


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## Flying_Monkey (7 Mar 2016)

Lots of damage done on the fast run-in, surprisingly with Greipel and Kittel well out of it. Kristoff had a mechanical too. In their absence, I would have expected Bouhani to take it, but well done to Démarre and Swift.


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## smutchin (7 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> Ben Swift just edged out. Not the best sprint I've ever witnessed. I've seen straighter pigs tails



Looked like Swift went too early and couldn't hold on. Bouhanni went too late, perhaps. Démare timed it spot on.

Felt slightly sorry for Theuns - looked like a good move, thought he might be able to hold off the pack.


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## mjr (7 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> Felt slightly sorry for Theuns - looked like a good move, thought he might be able to hold off the pack.


Was he wearing shinguards or are his legs just that shape?

Results:


Spoiler












Apologies for poor aim on the GC


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## Crackle (7 Mar 2016)

Contador and Thomas contested one of the intermediate sprints, so Contador is taking this seriously.






Sorry about the blue bit. It signifies nothing but my clumsiness, though it is pointing to Mathews.


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## Apollonius (7 Mar 2016)

For what was advertised as a sprint stage, I thought today's was really interesting. Nice to see Keldermanns featuring after seeing little of him last year.


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## Davos87 (7 Mar 2016)

Really enjoyed watching it today......apart from that bellend Rob Hatch from Eurosport insisting on referring to Tommy Voekkler as Thomaaaaar Voclaire.
He does my box in.


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## rich p (7 Mar 2016)

Davos87 said:


> Really enjoyed watching it today......apart from that bellend Rob Hatch from Eurosport insisting on referring to Tommy Voekkler as Thomaaaaar Voclaire.
> He does my box in.


You need to learn to ignore his correct pronunciations if they irritate you, cos he's the best commentator around these days. His analysis, deference to the expert and his rider recognition, is second to none imho.


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## Davos87 (8 Mar 2016)

What? Thomaaaaaa Vooooclaire is the correct pronunciation?
Rest of the commentating fraternity must all be dead wrong then.
He sounds a right pretentious nob IMHO.


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

Davos87 said:


> What? Thomaaaaaa Vooooclaire is the correct pronunciation?
> Rest of the commentating fraternity must all be dead wrong then.


It's closer to correct than P&P, based on how France3 say it. It's rather irritating when commentators persistently mangle names in common languages... but the English speaking ones aren't alone in it. German and French commentary often pronounce names as if they're in their languages which can be mystifying sometimes. I can't remember who it was on Sunday (might have been Richie Porte) but I didn't recognise the name until the summariser said it closer to correct.


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

And then just to baffle me, the Euronews presenter (probably based in Paris) says Arnaud Day-mah-rey, which is a novel pronounciation both more correct (the first e is a é) and more wrong (the second e isn't) than most English commentators!


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## fimm (8 Mar 2016)

I don't know about French speakers, but Spanish or Italian would certainly want to say "Por-tay" rather than "Port" for Porte.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

I got mercilessly ribbed at work recently for pronouncing Tom Boonen's name 'correctly' (Bone-en rather than Boon-en, in case you were wondering). It's just not worth trying.

I don't think P&P have ever knowingly pronounced Voeckler's name the same way twice.


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## Berk on a Bike (8 Mar 2016)

Juan Lobato's name is easy to pronounce, as in, "Juan Lobato has abandoned." Which he has.

Today's stage finish is in a town called Commentry. No doubt there will be tickled ribs aplenty with messrs Hatch and Kelly.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

Tsgabu Grmay in the break today. Yay!


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## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

Davos87 said:


> Rest of the commentating fraternity must all be dead wrong then..


Sounds about right.


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## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

mjray said:


> German and French commentary often pronounce names as if they're in their languages which can be mystifying sometimes.


Particularly enjoying France 3's Yan Stannar for Ian Stannard.


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## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> I got mercilessly ribbed at work recently for pronouncing Tom Boonen's name 'correctly' (Bone-en rather than Boon-en, in case you were wondering). It's just not worth trying.


Indeed. I've given up pronouncing names with ova at then end (as in Navratilova) 'correctly' for that reason. Although some commentators get Boonen right so your colleagues sound like they're watching P+P. In which case they have my sympathy. ;-)


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

Not a great stage so far and now a spectator and a rider have collided and neither look in good shape 

Edit: rider was Pierre-Luc Perichon of Fortuneo-Vital Concept


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

Well I'll be amazed if that result stands! Blatant lean by Bouhanni onto Matthews there.


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## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

Another very dodgy sprint. Can't for the life of me see what Bouhanni was waving his arms for. He's lucky he's not lying in the road. That's a DQ for me.


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## Scoosh (8 Mar 2016)

Bouhani pushing Matthews into the barrier ...


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## fimm (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> .. names with ova at then end (as in Navratilova) ...


What is the correct pronunciation?

(I think it was @The Couch who was amused by someone pronouncing Lars Boom "as if he was an explosion"...)


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)




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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

And the disqualification/relegation is confirmed. I feared they might not because it was a French sprinter but I guess they won yesterday and this was a bit much, sticking an elbow into another rider's arm.


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## raindog (8 Mar 2016)

Jalabert saying nothing wrong with it - twat. If it had been the other way round he'd be screaming blue murder.


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## roadrash (8 Mar 2016)

some great backtracking by sean kelly initially saying he didnt veer off his line and every sprinter sticks the elbows out, after hearing the decision kelly says the exact opposite


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## Hont (8 Mar 2016)

fimm said:


> What is the correct pronunciation?



NAV-rat-ill-ov-uh not Nav-rat-ill-OH-vuh. Sound clip here...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Cs-Martina_Navratilova.ogg

More info here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2007/07/how_to_say_wimbeldon_names.shtml

You just have to remember to add an uh to the male equivalent (e.g. Martina's stepfather's surname was Navratilov). It's an odd one because everyone seem to pronounce Petra Kvitova correctly (AFAICT) rather than Kvit-OH-vuh. And Sharapova doesn't help by accepting the incorrect pronunciation of her name.


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## Flying_Monkey (8 Mar 2016)

That's one of the more blatant examples of 'leaning' I have seen. Bouhanni is a bit of a bruiser...

Of the people you would normally have expected to be there today, Greipel is probably still not fully recovered, but I am surprised how poor Kristoff has been in getting up there and Kittel, once again, was nowhere. Not sure why.


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

Does doping damage eyesight? 

I was amazed the front three stayed on their bikes, as were the German-language Eurosport commentators (probably ex-CX racer Karsten Migels). It looked almost like Matthews was riding on the ad hoardings at one point. 10 out of 10 for bike handling to all three, but less several thousand from Bouhanni for starting that collision.


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## Apollonius (8 Mar 2016)

If Bouhanni wants to ride a Scott, why doesn't he just ask?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Mar 2016)

Bouhanni is a little prick


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## raindog (8 Mar 2016)

couple of comments on l'Equipe

brestois-du-35 - 8 mars à 18:16
"Au moins pour une fois il est resté sur son vélo..."
ririgolo42 - 8 mars à 18:21
"parce que Matthews le soutient !"

_"At least he stayed on his bike this time"
"Because Mathews was holding him up"_

__


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Mar 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That's one of the more blatant examples of 'leaning' I have seen. Bouhanni is a bit of a bruiser...
> 
> Of the people you would normally have expected to be there today, Greipel is probably still not fully recovered, but I am surprised how poor Kristoff has been in getting up there and Kittel, once again, was nowhere. Not sure why.


Not watched the stage yet but very strange that The Beautiful Marcel is missing.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> Indeed. I've given up pronouncing names with ova at then end (as in Navratilova) 'correctly' for that reason. Although some commentators get Boonen right so your colleagues sound like they're watching P+P. In which case they have my sympathy. ;-)



They weren't mocking me for being wrong, they were mocking me for being pretentious enough to get it right!


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

Marmion said:


> Not watched the stage yet but very strange that The Beautiful Marcel is missing.



I missed today's stage because I had to go out, but yesterday it looked like a combination of grim conditions and very hard racing making it impossible for the sprinters' teams to control the race, and I'm guessing it was much the same today from what I'm hearing.

That being the case, it was a surprise not to see Kristoff figuring (although he obviously did a bit better today, looking at the results).


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## Crackle (8 Mar 2016)

Stills make it look worse

sprint at about 3.00


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## mjr (8 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Stills make it look worse
> 
> sprint at about 3.00



The frontal shot video flatters. Helicopter shot made it look pretty bad too but isn't in that YouTube clip.


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## Strathlubnaig (8 Mar 2016)

Boonen moaning about the chilly weather and Matthews can't take a bit of argy-bargy in the sprint, cyclists used to be hard.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> I missed today's stage because I had to go out, but yesterday it looked like a combination of grim conditions and very hard racing making it impossible for the sprinters' teams to control the race, and I'm guessing it was much the same today from what I'm hearing.
> 
> That being the case, it was a surprise not to see Kristoff figuring (although he obviously did a bit better today, looking at the results).


The inevitable "Marcel? He's not well." "He's not well, is Marcel" "Marcel, not well?" "Marcel, who can tell?" rumour is apparently circulating in the peloton.


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## smutchin (8 Mar 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> Matthews can't take a bit of argy-bargy in the sprint



I think you're entitled to complain if you win the stage and it doesn't just look like sour grapes.


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## PpPete (8 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> Particularly enjoying France 3's Yan Stannar for Ian Stannard.


And in the other direction ... Sean Kelly's treatment of the team sponsored by a financial institution whose logo is a squirrel. Came out as Kay Step Anya. I used to look in vain for a rider with a family name similar to Anya or Stepanya until I twigged he was talking about the team then named Caisse d'Epargne.

But yes - cynical attempt by Bouhani to put Bling in the barriers. Riders have been thrown off races for less.


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## Crackle (8 Mar 2016)

Marmion said:


> The inevitable "Marcel? He's not well." "He's not well, is Marcel" "Marcel, not well?" "Marcel, who can tell?" rumour is apparently circulating in the peloton.


Looks like Etixx are having the same effect on Kittel as the did on Cav.


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## Berk on a Bike (9 Mar 2016)

Phil Gil is a DNS today. Dropping like ninepins.


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

Vichot abandoned. Looks like he's staked a claim for the couch, itstevelovell will be pleased to learn.


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

It's still too cold there to get from under the duvet, never mind race.


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## Apollonius (9 Mar 2016)

Not the nicest day for a ride in the Massif Central, it seems, but the race is continuing. 16 man breakaway.

(including Ben Swift - "Go out there and die for G, Swifty.")


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## mjr (9 Mar 2016)

Katusha, Lotto Soudal, IAM, DDD, Cofidis and Fortuneo missed that really quite large break. AFAICT, no teams seem to have multiple riders but it's only got about 1m30 now.


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

This is the finish!


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## Berk on a Bike (9 Mar 2016)

Vuillermoz has abandoned too


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## Berk on a Bike (9 Mar 2016)

...and now the race has been neutralised due to the adverse weather. Race to be restarted at km 125. Flipping heck!


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

And now stage cancelled.


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## mjr (9 Mar 2016)

Oh well. Gives us more time to watch Tirreno Adriatico. Except it is a TTT so I think I'll go watch some paint dry instead.


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## Dec66 (9 Mar 2016)

Can't they just put some arm warmers on and let a bit of air out of the tyres? Wimps.

That wouldn't stop me riding. Not even as if they'd have to contend with school kids chucking snowballs at them, like I'd have to


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## SWSteve (9 Mar 2016)

Ah, it would appear Vichot did as much cycling as I have today.

It would appear I will not be doing too well in the punditry


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## psmiffy (9 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> And now stage cancelled.



If you abandon and then the stage gets cancelled - is it like it didn't happen?


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## rich p (9 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> If you abandon and then the stage gets cancelled - is it like it didn't happen?


Very metaphysical Smiffy!


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## Crackle (9 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> If you abandon and then the stage gets cancelled - is it like it didn't happen?


Vichot could argue that in a Descartes way. He could ride his own mental paris-Nice.


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## Supersuperleeds (9 Mar 2016)

Should have switched to fat bikes, bloody fair weather cyclists, come July and the better weather they'll all be riding about as if they belong in the TDF


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## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Mar 2016)

psmiffy said:


> If you abandon and then the stage gets cancelled - is it like it didn't happen?





Crackle said:


> Vichot could argue that in a Descartes way. He could ride his own mental paris-Nice.



Available (still) at 125/1 to win GC on Paddypower


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## Strathlubnaig (9 Mar 2016)

If you abandoned on a stage which gets cancelled is there an argument to restart again ? Some of those DNF'rs must be kicking themselves now !


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## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Ah, it would appear Vichot did as much cycling as I have today.
> 
> It would appear I will not be doing too well in the punditry


You showed some flair. I'll maybe give you an extra point (unless it means you overtake me...)


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## oldroadman (9 Mar 2016)

The organisers and commissaires made the correct decision. Everyone on the race was at risk, not just riders. Interesting comment about abandoned riders. As the stage was nullified it technically did not happen but points scored were kept, not time bonuses. There is a case to allow DNF to restart, a tricky decision for the commissaires.
So far as the stage 2 sprint was concerned, NB closed Matthews down, stuck his elbow out to obstruct progress, everything about his actions in the last 100 metres was "irregular". Correct decision, but I wish people on TV would stop using the word "disqualified" (Eurosport!!). NB was relegated, in line with UCI rules, to last of the group he was in, which just happened to be the leading 3, as a gap of 1 second separated them from the bulk of the remaining peloton.
So NB is third, and fined 200 Swiss. At this point of the season had the commissaires not acted it may have been a signal for mayhem in sprints for a while, with a danger of someone getting badly hurt by the more "exotic" style sprinters. It's tricky enough as it is without antics as seen at the end of stage 2. NB knew exactly what he did, and all the protesting to media is just being a bit "French" in France.


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## beastie (10 Mar 2016)

oldroadman said:


> The organisers and commissaires made the correct decision. Everyone on the race was at risk, not just riders. Interesting comment about abandoned riders. As the stage was nullified it technically did not happen but points scored were kept, not time bonuses. There is a case to allow DNF to restart, a tricky decision for the commissaires.
> So far as the stage 2 sprint was concerned, NB closed Matthews down, stuck his elbow out to obstruct progress, everything about his actions in the last 100 metres was "irregular". Correct decision, but I wish people on TV would stop using the word "disqualified" (Eurosport!!). NB was relegated, in line with UCI rules, to last of the group he was in, which just happened to be the leading 3, as a gap of 1 second separated them from the bulk of the remaining peloton.
> So NB is third, and fined 200 Swiss. At this point of the season had the commissaires not acted it may have been a signal for mayhem in sprints for a while, with a danger of someone getting badly hurt by the more "exotic" style sprinters. It's tricky enough as it is without antics as seen at the end of stage 2. NB knew exactly what he did, and all the protesting to media is just being a bit "French" in France.



Spot on bit of punditry there @oldroadman.

I believe a spot on Eurosport should be yours!


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## oldroadman (10 Mar 2016)

beastie said:


> Spot on bit of punditry there @oldroadman.
> 
> I believe a spot on Eurosport should be yours!


Thank you. I fear that is unlikely to happen, all the established people look after their situation very well just as I would in their place when on a good "earner".


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## mjr (10 Mar 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Correct decision, but I wish people on TV would stop using the word "disqualified" (Eurosport!!).


Eurosport just quoted ASO's offficial twitter which said "disqualified" (they displayed the tweet on-screen). So not entirely Eurosport's fault - more Garbage In = Garbage Out.

I think I edited my post to put "/relegated" but they can't do that on twitter.


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## Hont (10 Mar 2016)

Finally a straight (ish) sprint.


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## Flying_Monkey (10 Mar 2016)

That was good. Bouhanni looks strong. Kittel again nowhere, and Kristoff doesn't seem to be quite with it right now.


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## Berk on a Bike (11 Mar 2016)

Hmm. Greipel's abandoned. Ventoux did for him.


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## SWSteve (11 Mar 2016)

The Katusha rider hitting the hedge with 2.5km to go was the highlight of today's stage


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## Crackle (11 Mar 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> The Katusha rider hitting the hedge with 2.5km to go was the highlight of today's stage


I agree. I'm not really sure what the point of tackling Ventoux is, so early in the season and with no TV coverage. I know they didn't go to the top but even so.


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## SWSteve (11 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> I agree. I'm not really sure what the point of tackling Ventoux is, so early in the season and with no TV coverage. I know they didn't go to the top but even so.



I don't know, probably to split the peloton. But it was a bit of a waste if not televised


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## rich p (11 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> I agree. I'm not really sure what the point of tackling Ventoux is, so early in the season and with no TV coverage. I know they didn't go to the top but even so.


Indeed so. Unless they follow it up with another climb later whereby someone can get a break to stick, there's no point at all. If Ventoux doesn't even eliminate the sprinters it's hardly going to trouble the gc boys.


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## Crackle (12 Mar 2016)

A Zacharrin win…… ..swee……… ok, I know.


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## huwsparky (12 Mar 2016)

Working out great for G. Hope he can hang onto it tomorrow.


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## Flying_Monkey (12 Mar 2016)

Nice ride by Simon Yates too.


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## Crackle (12 Mar 2016)

Contador reckoned he couldn't select the big ring up the final climb. I didn't watch the race but certainly in the highlights he doesn't seem to be riding a different gear to everyone else, in fact he seems to have selected a higher gear than Thomas, unless I read it wrong and he couldn't get out of the big ring?


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## Crackle (13 Mar 2016)

Thomas cracking here. The top can't come soon enough for him.


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## Crackle (13 Mar 2016)

Bloody hell, that was tense!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Mar 2016)




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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Mar 2016)




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## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Mar 2016)

Post-race interview:
GT - "I'm going to have a nice drink tonight."
French journo: "What do you mean by that?"
GT - "Gonna get hammered."


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## Strathlubnaig (13 Mar 2016)

That was a belter of a final stage, never knew how it would end until the end. Chapeau to Contador for the effort and chapeau to Thomas for clinging on. If all the races were like that....
oh and grand coup de chapeau to fellow Canuck Antoine Duchesne of Direct Energie for winning the Mountain maillot !


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## rich p (13 Mar 2016)

It's hard not admire the way Dirty Bertie rides, (and ValvPiti for that matter). Thomas did well to claw it back thanks largely to Henao. Sterling, stirring effort.


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## Berk on a Bike (13 Mar 2016)

Anyone _au fait_ with the rules of P-N? If Dirty Bertie had won today's stage he'd have taken 10 bonus seconds on the line and been tied on time with Thomas, in which case who would've won GC?


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## Crackle (13 Mar 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Anyone _au fait_ with the rules of P-N? If Dirty Bertie had won today's stage he'd have taken 10 bonus seconds on the line and been tied on time with Thomas, in which case who would've won GC?


Dunno but Thomas was faster in the prologue if they used that as a tie breaker.


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## Asa Post (13 Mar 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Anyone _au fait_ with the rules of P-N? If Dirty Bertie had won today's stage he'd have taken 10 bonus seconds on the line and been tied on time with Thomas, in which case who would've won GC?





Crackle said:


> Dunno but Thomas was faster in the prologue if they used that as a tie breaker.



@Crackle is right (as usual ). 

From the official website
*ARTICLE 6. General individual time Classification*
In accordance with article 2.6.015 of the UCI regulations, in the event where two or more riders achieve the same time in the general individual time classification, the fractions of a second registered during the prologue will be added to the total time to separate the riders that are tied.


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## Apollonius (13 Mar 2016)

Magnificent race. Contador gave it everything and almost got it. Thomas came back from the dead at least twice. Henao was astonishing and buried himself for Thomas. Just brilliant.


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## mjr (13 Mar 2016)

Just watched the highlights on s4c (so didn't follow much of the commentary but I did hear them mention Tinko- Saxoff) and wow, what a finish. Dirty Bertie is much more fun to watch than ValvPiti but it's still good he didn't win. 

What were the recriminations between Bertie and Porte as they finished?


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## mjr (13 Mar 2016)

Marmion said:


>


One rider much less smiley than the rest. What did the photographer say? Say "beefsteak"?


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## ColinJ (13 Mar 2016)

Well, that was an exciting finish to a stage race!



Berk on a Bike said:


> Anyone _au fait_ with the rules of P-N? If Dirty Bertie had won today's stage he'd have taken 10 bonus seconds on the line and been tied on time with Thomas, in which case who would've won GC?


There was a gap back to Contador at the finish which l thought looked >= 1 second, though the officials obviously thought otherwise.


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## Elybazza61 (14 Mar 2016)

Thought G was gone there but nice work by Henau with help from Gallopin too,plus a bit of pursuiting to claw Bertie back.

Nice stage win for Wellens as well,helped by Bertie and Ritchie towing him along but he had made the effort at the front for a long while.


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## smutchin (14 Mar 2016)

Berk on a Bike said:


> Anyone _au fait_ with the rules of P-N? If Dirty Bertie had won today's stage he'd have taken 10 bonus seconds on the line and been tied on time with Thomas, in which case who would've won GC?



If, if, if...

If stage 3 hadn't been cancelled, Bertie would quite likely have won outrigtht. C'est la vie. #schadenfreude


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## oldroadman (14 Mar 2016)

Marmion said:


> Post-race interview:
> GT - "I'm going to have a nice drink tonight."
> French journo: "What do you mean by that?"
> GT - "Gonna get hammered."


With his level of fitness, and lack of body fat, that will take about 3 glasses of red! Which he absolutely deserves.


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## Apollonius (14 Mar 2016)

I would imagine that a deal was done between Contador, Porte and Wellens to give Wellens the stage if he kept riding. Otherwise he could have just sat on the wheels of Contador and Porte as they had to ride. Bertie was banking on the three of them getting more than 9 seconds ahead of Thomas, and they almost did.


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## Hont (14 Mar 2016)

Asa Post said:


> @Crackle is right (as usual ).
> 
> From the official website
> *ARTICLE 6. General individual time Classification*
> In accordance with article 2.6.015 of the UCI regulations, in the event where two or more riders achieve the same time in the general individual time classification, the fractions of a second registered during the prologue will be added to the total time to separate the riders that are tied.



Crackle is half right. What the rule is saying is that if, for example, Thomas' prologue time was 7:46:01 and Contador's was 7:55:00 (and their overall time had been equal) Contador would have won, as Thomas's overall time would have been 0.01 longer.


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## Asa Post (14 Mar 2016)

Hont said:


> Crackle is half right. What the rule is saying is that if, for example, Thomas' prologue time was 7:46:01 and Contador's was 7:55:00 (and their overall time had been equal) Contador would have won, as Thomas's overall time would have been 0.01 longer.


I think it made more sense in the original French.

"Conformément à l’article 2.6.015, en cas d’égalité au classement général individuel au temps, les fractions de seconde enregistrées lors du prologue sont réincorporées dans le temps total pour départager les coureurs ex aequo."


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## mjr (14 Mar 2016)

Asa Post said:


> I think it made more sense in the original French.


Which seems to say what @Hont explains ("According to article 2.6.015, in case of equality of individual GC times, the fractions of a second recorded from the prologue will be reincorporated in the total time to separate the racers ..."), except I don't recognise "ex aequo" as French.


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## Crackle (14 Mar 2016)

Cracking article on Geraint Thomas in Wales Online. I particularly like the last bit.

_In the Tour summer, he was knocked off his bike on a high-speed descent, smashed his head into a telegraph pole and fell down a ravine. Instead of quitting, he climbed back on his bike and rode the rest of the stage as hard as he could in an attempt to limit his losses.

Think of that when you next see a footballer rolling around "injured" on the floor._

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...homas-deserves-11035807#ICID=sharebar_twitter


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## 400bhp (14 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> It's hard not admire the way Dirty Bertie rides,



Completely. I cannot imagine a scenario where Sky would attack off the front with 50k to go.

And if you watch him on the Col D'Eze it was like watching a conductor of an orchestra. He was running the show. I would imagine he would be very pleased with that performance.

In my view Froome is the best rider in the world but Contador is the best cyclist.


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## oldroadman (14 Mar 2016)

400bhp said:


> Completely. I cannot imagine a scenario where Sky would attack off the front with 50k to go.
> 
> And if you watch him on the Col D'Eze it was like watching a conductor of an orchestra. He was running the show. I would imagine he would be very pleased with that performance.
> 
> *In my view Froome is the best rider in the world but Contador is the best cyclist.*



Explain???
For example, best stage race rider - neither feature much in the classics.


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## User169 (14 Mar 2016)

From Inner Ring:

"But as he [Contador] thinks of July there might be the nagging feeling that he couldn’t beat Chris Froome’s domestique."

Ouch!


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## rich p (15 Mar 2016)

I'm not suggesting anything nefarious at all but I like the GC riders to show their faces and compete in the early season. Wiggins did and won everything in THAT year, as did Froome before his first win. Bertie, Nibali and Valverde are all racers and love to compete.
I don't approve (ha!) of Froome's strategy this year. Training in SA, Teide etc - it smacks of the way Armstrong used to target the TdF to the exclusion of all else and diminshes the sport in some small way. In my humble etceteras...


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## Crackle (15 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> I don't approve (ha!) of Froome's strategy this year. Training in SA, Teide etc - it smacks of the way Armstrong used to target the TdF to the exclusion of all else and diminshes the sport in some small way. In my humble etceteras...


It's hard not to draw parallels but Froome is more of a specialist GC rider and I don't know the reasons for him staying at home this year but I guess the birth of his daughter might well have influenced him plus Sky needing to satisfy the needs of a strong squad of talent?


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## rich p (15 Mar 2016)

But some of the specialist GC riders train by doing shorter stage races. Froome is different particularly this year although you may well be right about his child.


Crackle said:


> I don't know the reasons for him staying at home this year


Home? Is it Monaco, South Africa or Tenerife? 
I wonder where he stays when he pops over to the UK?
Premier Inn, Manchester?


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## smutchin (15 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> I like the GC riders to show their faces and compete in the early season. Wiggins did and won everything in THAT year



Wiggo's early season programme in 2012 was as follows:
Volta ao Algarve (finished 3rd)
Paris-Nice (won)
Volta a Catalunya (DNF)
Tour de Romandie (won)
Criterium du Dauphiné (won)

This is Froome's schedule for this year leading up to the Tour:
Herald Sun Tour (won easily)
Volta a Catalunya
Tour de Romandie
Criterium du Dauphiné

So really the only difference is that they chose a different race to start their season, and Froome skipped Paris-Nice, which he has publicly admitted is because he doesn't like the cold and wet. Neither Wiggins nor Froome have ever been ones for showing their faces at the Spring Classics. Froome will be facing quite a few of his main rivals at Catalunya - including Quintana, who hasn't exactly been putting his face about much this year.

I suppose that if you go back before Lance, most of the big names would ride all the GTs, and Lance is largely responsible for changing that, but these days, Froome and Wiggins are by no means alone in targetting the Tour and skipping the Giro. Chapeau to Bertie for attempting both last year but we all saw how that turned out.


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## rich p (15 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> Wiggo's early season programme in 2012 was as follows:
> Volta ao Algarve (finished 3rd)
> Paris-Nice (won)
> Volta a Catalunya (DNF)
> ...


Oh, píss off, Smutch, with yer facts and figures.
Whatever happened to gut feeling?
I don't really count the Sun Tour tho!
I almost included Quintana in my original post as being awol but I concede you have a point. I suppose it also depends on what the GCers' programmes are from now on too - I exclude the Giro from a race that any TdF hopeful would ride.


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## themosquitoking (15 Mar 2016)

Last year quite a few of them went to the Vuelta, that might start becoming a thing now.


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## Crackle (15 Mar 2016)

The Volta a Catalunya is looking quite tasty this year


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## 400bhp (15 Mar 2016)

oldroadman said:


> Explain???
> For example, best stage race rider - neither feature much in the classics.



Froome - best ability for the GT's. Contador, best tactical nouse.

Perhaps Nibali is better than both as he does have a go at one dayers and does reasonably well. Perhaps to his GT detriment though?


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## 400bhp (15 Mar 2016)

smutchin said:


> Wiggo's early season programme in 2012 was as follows:
> Volta ao Algarve (finished 3rd)
> Paris-Nice (won)
> Volta a Catalunya (DNF)
> ...



Perhaps Quintana is the best example of someone who stays away and concentrates on the GT. It's well known he likes to stay close to his home in Colombia.


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## Asa Post (16 Mar 2016)

mjray said:


> Which seems to say what @Hont explains ("According to article 2.6.015, in case of equality of individual GC times, the fractions of a second recorded from the prologue will be reincorporated in the total time to separate the racers ..."), except I don't recognise "ex aequo" as French.


"ex aequo" is Latin, meaning "equally".​
Not that I'm OCD or anything , but I had to check the UCI regulations to try to satisfy myself that I understood how the rule works. I've slightly re-ordered the relevant rules so the flow makes more sense:​
*STAGE RACES*
*2.6.001* Stage races shall be run over a minimum of two days with a general time classification. They shall be run in road race stages and time trial stages.

*ONE-DAY RACES*
*2.3.041* All times recorded by the timekeeper-commissaires shall be rounded down to the nearest second.

*INDIVIDUAL TIME TRIALS*
*2.4.015* Finishing times shall be taken to the nearest one-tenth of a second at least.

*STAGE RACES*
*2.6.015* Where two or more riders make the same time in the general individual time placings, the fractions of a second registered during individual time trials (including the prologue) shall be added back into the total time to decide the order. If the result is still tied or if there are no individual time trial stages the placings obtained in each stage, except team time trial stages, shall be added and, as a last resort, the place obtained in the last stage ridden shall be taken into consideration.

Which (I now think) means what @Hont said. 

As an example:
A rides the ITT in 56:25.78 while B takes 57:06.03. 
The times are rounded down to 56:25 and 57:06, and at the end of the race A and B are equal on overall time of (say) 27:12:45 for the GC.
But A has had .78 of a second shaved off his time, and B has had only .03 of a second taken off his. A has benefited to a greater degree from the rounding down of times.
Remove that rounding, and A finishes in 27:12:45.78 and B finishes in 27:12:45.03.
B wins the GC.

Sorry @Crackle .​


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## Slaav (16 Mar 2016)

Have you not got that round the wrong way? Or am I being dumb (a regular trait) ?

Fractions added back in not rounded down.... So a more accurate outcome surely?




Hang on, I think we agree on this? After reading it again?


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## Crackle (16 Mar 2016)

Asa Post said:


> Sorry @Crackle .


 I did say I didn't know but it's common to go back to earlier performances/stages in many sports in the event of a tie. I don't mind being half right, it's better than being half wrong.


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