# Vicky P And A Troubled Life.



## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2012)

This makes rather sad reading, and a tribute to her achievements with what she had to overcome -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...a-Pendleton-reveals-history-of-self-harm.html


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## Lee_M (2 Sep 2012)

Very sad, hope she's ok in the future.

The documentary about her prior to the games showed how troubled she was, and also how unfair teamGB were with her over her relationship, especially since the Jason Kenny Laura trott relationship seems to be accepted

Good luck to her


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2012)

The objection to Vicky's relationship was that it was with one of the staff.


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## Slaav (2 Sep 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> The objection to Vicky's relationship was that it was with one of the staff.


 
And much more importantly, it was totally against teh rules for the management and staff to fraternise with the cyclist due to work complications and possible conflicts within the strategy and make up of the various relationships. In addition, the rules were cleara nd plain and every member of the whole team agreed and bought in to them! That was part of the problem, when that line was crossed, not only did it break the rules which were set in stone, it was (in effect) a betrayal of the team due to the close nature of everybody.

As far as I am aware, there is no such rule between the cyclists themselves or even within management!

WIll read the article now and may have more useless opnion to share afterwards


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## Lee_M (2 Sep 2012)

I'm glad you are all so perfect and can guarantee you won't fall in love with someone inappropriate!

It wasn't a school
It wasn't illegal

It may have been frowned upon but I still think the behaviour of the management was appalling to someone they would know was so fragile.

No wonder she wants out 

I hope none of you ever need support in a fragile time


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## festival (2 Sep 2012)

You can't blame people for falling in love, but the management had to stand firm to be fair to everyone.
I have every sympathy with her and hope the rest of her life is happy.
Having said that when I saw the docu on tv I thought her dad was a big part of the problem, I believe he showed signs of envy of his own daughter instead of unconditional love.


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## Lee_M (2 Sep 2012)

Oh I'm not saying it was right, just that it could have been handled better


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## Doseone (2 Sep 2012)

I seem to remember thinking she was a troubled soul after watching the documentary on TV.

I hope she's ok and goes on to lead a happy life in her retirement.


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## phil_hg_uk (2 Sep 2012)

festival said:


> Having said that when I saw the docu on tv I thought her dad was a big part of the problem, I believe he showed signs of envy of his own daughter instead of unconditional love.


 
Thats exactly what I thought, when he was stood there looking at that shirt she gave him that he had framed on the wall I fully expected him to turn around and say it should have be me !!!!!


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## StuAff (2 Sep 2012)

The lack of understanding from BC when they heard about the relationship was ridiculous. It wasn't a betrayal of trust. No-one was being exploited or abused. Two people fell in love and they got treated like pariahs.


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## thom (2 Sep 2012)

The BC management team do appear very capable of hard nosed and brutal decision making. It's a bit off topic but nobody has really made much mention of Wendy Houvenhagel's treatment which seems particularly harsh and unpleasant.


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## 172traindriver (2 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> I'm glad you are all so perfect and can guarantee you won't fall in love with someone inappropriate!
> 
> It wasn't a school
> It wasn't illegal
> ...


 
I watched the documentary, and felt sorry for her, I totally agree with your comments buddy.

I have read various articles about her recently and there have been pictures of her with her chap walking their dogs as a normal couple and enjoying themselves now her career is over.

I say good luck to the girl and her chap, I hope they have a very happy life together and get to do the things normal couples get to do. After the sacrifices she made she should now be happy with the legacy she created.

Her father did seem somewhat of a bully, but on the other hand he probably thought he was doing the right thing especially as he didn't make it, and didn't he make some mention of his own regrets?

She did seem a rather fragile girl and it was as if she needed an arm around her a bit more rather than pushing her to the brink.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2012)

StuAff said:


> The lack of understanding from BC when they heard about the relationship was ridiculous. It wasn't a betrayal of trust. No-one was being exploited or abused. Two people fell in love and they got treated like pariahs.


They weren't.

It was made plain to riders and coaches right from the off that relationships between individuals from each side was a no-no. They couldn't help falling in love, but when they did one of them had to go. Anyone who has worked in an environment where one of the management and a member of staff are at it - whether it's love or lust - will know that it causes resentment and bad feeling.

BC's concern was with team moral and that came before all else.


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## Lee_M (2 Sep 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> They weren't.
> 
> It was made plain to riders and coaches right from the off that relationships between individuals from each side was a no-no. They couldn't help falling in love, but when they did one of them had to go. Anyone who has worked in an environment where one of the management and a member of staff are at it - whether it's love or lust - will know that it causes resentment and bad feeling.
> 
> BC's concern was with team moral and that came before all else.




Must be great being so perfect in your whole life as you undoubtedly are


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## Doseone (2 Sep 2012)

thom said:


> The BC management team do appear very capable of hard nosed and brutal decision making. It's a bit off topic but nobody has really made much mention of Wendy Houvenhagel's treatment which seems particularly harsh and unpleasant.


Didn't she think though that she should have been selected ahead of Laura Trott? If that was the case hindsight would suggest that BC got the decision right. I guess we'll never really know whether she was "snubbed" as the article suggests or whether BC told her she wasn't in the team with tact and sensitivity. After all, if there's 4 people chasing places in a 3 person team one of them is going to feel "snubbed". Also, the link is to a Belfast paper and Wendy is Northern Irish, so maybe the paper were just fighting her corner.


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## StuAff (2 Sep 2012)

Joe, you're absolutely right, and absolutely wrong. It's all very well making rules like that and expecting people to abide by them...but no use whatsoever when they don't. Team morale? Well, teams are made of individuals. Hurting Vicky like that, and taking the benefit of Scott's skills from her and the rest of the team, did no-one any good.


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## dellzeqq (2 Sep 2012)

Pendleton was a challenge too far for BC. The doco gave Dave Brailsford, Shane Sutton and Jan van Eijden the chance to speak their minds and, while they have undoubtedly produced the most successful Olympic team of all time, they clearly didn't get to grips with Pendleton. With hindsight the relationship with Scott Gardner was probably the best thing that could have happened for her cycling (setting aside the rest of her life) and it's a pity that BC didn't work that out.


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## dellzeqq (2 Sep 2012)

Doseone said:


> Didn't she think though that she should have been selected ahead of Laura Trott? If that was the case hindsight would suggest that BC got the decision right. I guess we'll never really know whether she was "snubbed" as the article suggests or whether BC told her she wasn't in the team with tact and sensitivity. After all, if there's 4 people chasing places in a 3 person team one of them is going to feel "snubbed". Also, the link is to a Belfast paper and Wendy is Northern Irish, so maybe the paper were just fighting her corner.


that's not quite right. She'd have got a medal if she had ridden one race. Given that they train as a team, given the assurances she received, that wouldn't have been too much to expect. As it turns out she would have been better off walking after the Worlds.


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## thom (2 Sep 2012)

Doseone said:


> Didn't she think though that she should have been selected ahead of Laura Trott? If that was the case hindsight would suggest that BC got the decision right. I guess we'll never really know whether she was "snubbed" as the article suggests or whether BC told her she wasn't in the team with tact and sensitivity. After all, if there's 4 people chasing places in a 3 person team one of them is going to feel "snubbed". Also, the link is to a Belfast paper and Wendy is Northern Irish, so maybe the paper were just fighting her corner.


I'm from Belfast too ! I'll fight her corner ! ;-) 
Anyway, there was a guardian article too but also it was a story that did get hidden given the team's ultimate success to the point that only in Belfast were they keeping an eye on the story. I think she might have been led on a bit, she might well have been used in a qualification round, that it was maybe Rowsell who had been ill the day before the final or something and that in any case, it doesn't sound like Laura, Dani or Joanna really behaved well to her.
We don't know really but I suspect Wendy's actually pretty mature and dignified in her comportment and is being quite truthful. She did win the British National Time trial today though, so happy days !


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## StuAff (2 Sep 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> Pendleton was a challenge too far for BC. The doco gave Dave Brailsford, Shane Sutton and Jan van Eijden the chance to speak their minds and, while they have undoubtedly produced the most successful Olympic team of all time, they clearly didn't get to grips with Pendleton. With hindsight the relationship with Scott Gardner was probably the best thing that could have happened for her cycling (setting aside the rest of her life) and it's a pity that BC didn't work that out.


I can only agree. Here's a talented but troubled young lady. She's fallen in love with someone and might well spend the rest of her life with him, with resulting benefit to dealing with those troubles. He is also a valuable member of your coaching team. So, rather than considering the situation on its individual merits, you force them apart and damn the consequences. Only to rehire the guy when you realise what a crock that decision was.


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## Doseone (2 Sep 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> .... She'd have got a medal if she had ridden one race.


I didn't realise that. That does seem harsh. It seems as though BC don't do sentiment.



thom said:


> We don't know really but I suspect Wendy's actually pretty mature and dignified in her comportment and is being quite truthful. She did win the British National Time trial today though, so happy days !


Yes, she comes across that way, and that's great news about the Time Trial.

I really know very little about Laura, Dani and Joanna, other than what I saw from the Olympics coverage. Whilst they all seemed very likeable they did come across as a little immature - but then they are all young compared to me!


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## Smokin Joe (2 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> Must be great being so perfect in your whole life as you undoubtedly are


Try reading my post again and if you don't understand what I said ask someone to explain it to you. You may not agree with me, but you're reply was a rather stupid one.


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## Slaav (3 Sep 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Try reading my post again and if you don't understand what I said ask someone to explain it to you. You may not agree with me, but you're reply was a rather stupid one.


 
I agree - why do some people seem to think being aggressive is always the correct route????

We have aopinions, they are simply that! as the old mantra about forums/fora suggest, treat it as you would face to face ina pub or similar. If it is OK to say 'Duck off loser' when you hear someone say something on a forum, I want to be there when you say it in a normal pub!

We all need to remember that we are grown ups and should behave like it!

Anyway, I agree about the immaturity and the giggly nature about the three losers - sorry, World record holders and gold medallists! BC made the wrong decision there.....

As an aside, I do wonder whether it would have been better for the team and the 'team' if they have given Wendy a ride at the Qually satge and therefore 'given' her a medal. Issue is, at that stage, no guarantee of a medal, let alone a GOLD!!!!!!!!  (Did I mention that a couple of WR were broken along the way? )

Whatever, elite sport is tough, very; if tomorrow's champion backs off in case she doesnt make the relay team, then......

Just my thoughts and they don't even sit well with me!


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## albion (3 Sep 2012)

You can see this both ways.

If you 100% do as you are told then you are fine and all is balance.
Conversely having your own life and mind spells trouble


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## Lee_M (3 Sep 2012)

Smokin Joe said:


> Try reading my post again and if you don't understand what I said ask someone to explain it to you. You may not agree with me, but you're reply was a rather stupid one.


 
that is of course your opinion and you are entitled to hold it.

but lifes too short...


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## thom (11 Sep 2012)

Yesterday's most read Guardian article : I'm not the perfect model of what an athlete should be.


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## Blue Hills (13 Sep 2012)

Apologies if this is veering slightly off topic. With regard to the comments above about Brit Cycling's apparently appalling treatment of her, I can't help but think that, incredibly impressive as its achievements are for sports cycling, that they are just too focussed/macho - I was personally sickened/profoundly disappointed by the time-trial so-called gamesmanship of Hoy and Co. I can well understand how a soul like Pendleton might have problems with that culture (yes I know she's a great fan of Hoy). The pre-Olympic documentary on her was brilliant. Good look to her and I hope she has many happy years riding her bike, but probably not round and round on a wooden track. Maybe she'll become the glamourous face of the CTC and take up cycle camping


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## Blue Hills (13 Sep 2012)

Thanks for the Guardian link thom.

I get the impression that despite her issues she's significantly saner than some of the British Cycling folks.

It was very clear after her last race that winning the medal wasn't the main thing going through her head - she was so damn ***ing relieved that the whole thing was over.


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## Crankarm (13 Sep 2012)

Vicky P was on Womans Hour this morning. I don't listen to WH but heard it purely by chance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mk8zl


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## Dan_h (15 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> I'm glad you are all so perfect and can guarantee you won't fall in love with someone inappropriate!
> 
> It wasn't a school
> It wasn't illegal
> ...


 
While I agree with you most places I have worked have something in the contract about relationships with other members of staff and I have known a few people that have had to move departments or even leave the company due to entering a relationships that have been deemed to cause a conflict of interest in the business. I don't know about pro cycling but I guess it is possible that there is something similar in their contracts.


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## thom (19 Sep 2012)

A review of Between the Lines


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2012)

thom said:


> A review of Between the Lines


er, some mistake with that link?


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## Silver Fox (19 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> I'm glad you are all so perfect and can guarantee you won't fall in love with someone inappropriate!
> 
> It wasn't a school
> It wasn't illegal
> ...


 
I understand your point but there's a flip side. No individual is bigger than the team and a team is only as good as its weakest link. VP, intentionally or not, brought a dimension into the team that was potentially divisive and destructive to morale at a time when unwavering focus was needed. This wasn't some office romance, it was conducted in a world class team striving for gold on the world stage.

Providing managerial support to 'fragile' members of staff is one thing but it has to be balanced against the greater needs of the team as a manager has a duty to look after their welfare as well.


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## Lee_M (19 Sep 2012)

and two major athletes having a relationship (Kenny and Trott) isnt considered divisive?

As I said earlier, she needed support like lots of elite athletes (and in this case I do know what I'm talking about as both my sisters were olympians in the 80s), but what she got was the exact opposite


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## Silver Fox (19 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> and two major athletes having a relationship (Kenny and Trott) isnt considered divisive?


 
All depends on the effect a relationship is having on the team, each has to be judged on its merits.


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## dellzeqq (19 Sep 2012)

Silver Fox said:


> All depends on the effect a relationship is having on the team, each has to be judged on its merits.


too true, but that doesn't seem to have happened in Pendleton's case. The management just flew off the handle.


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## thom (19 Sep 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> er, some mistake with that link?


Indeed.....:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2012/9/18/3352494/between-the-lines-by-victoria-pendleton
should do it - apologies!


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## Silver Fox (19 Sep 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> too true, but that doesn't seem to have happened in Pendleton's case. The management just flew off the handle.


 
Unless you were actually there no one will actually know what she was like to manage on a daily basis. 

Don't get me wrong I like VP, acknowledge her achievements and wish her well. However, with her self-harming, insecure, overly emotional personality I wonder if behind closed doors she was a problem child for the management. If, as you say the management flew off the handle, what was the reason for this. Reached the end of their tether maybe.

On the other hand they may have just been crap managers but from what I've seen and read about young Victoria I do wonder.


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## 172traindriver (19 Sep 2012)

Silver Fox said:


> Unless you were actually there no one will actually know what she was like to manage on a daily basis.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I like VP, acknowledge her achievements and wish her well. However, with her self-harming, insecure, overly emotional personality I wonder if behind closed doors she was a problem child for the management. If, as you say the management flew off the handle, what was the reason for this. Reached the end of their tether maybe.
> 
> On the other hand they may have just been crap managers but from what I've seen and read about young Victoria I do wonder.


 
Lets remember for her what she achieved. Yes she may have caused a few problems etc and messed the system up, but hey she won numerous Gold medals and other titles.

She has retired now, all the best to her and I hope she can be happy for many years to come, with her chap.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2012)

thom said:


> Indeed.....:
> - apologies!


 
No apologies necessary - many thanks - Interesting para starting:

"There are many things to admire in British Cycling's Lottery-funded renaissance."

continuing:

"But at what cost?"

ta


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## Smokin Joe (19 Sep 2012)

Lee_M said:


> and two major athletes having a relationship (Kenny and Trott) isnt considered divisive?
> 
> As I said earlier, she needed support like lots of elite athletes (and in this case I do know what I'm talking about as both my sisters were olympians in the 80s), but what she got was the exact opposite


Relationships between peers are a different matter, there is no need for it to be divisive in any organisation. Between management and staff is a different matter, it leads to suspicions of favouritism and resentment among the other staff members and you cannot have anything like that in a sports team where the only thing that matters is success. It's the same in the armed forces where relationships between officers and the lower ranks are illegal, those are the rules they sign up to and if they can't take a joke they shouldn't have joined. And remember, Pendleton was NOT penalised over the affair, it was the senior member who quite rightly had to go.

I like the comments about somebody made about "Crap Management". As they managed the most successful sports team ever to come out of this country I think that accusation would make them smile.


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## oldroadman (21 Sep 2012)

All respects to some posters on this thread, but neither you nor I have the slightest clue what really went on, what secrets were kept, how the coaches felt when they discovered that one of their number had been having an affair with someone they must have openly discussed and criticised at times. All the while not knowing that confidences may have been leaked. VP is perfectly entitled to be with who she wishes, BUT these things need to be in the open. Management set rules, they were applied, and you don't sack a potential medallist. So in the long term, the support was there, in a tough way. Which is how it is at that level - get on with it or fail - simple.
VP got on with it and succeeded. Because she is a pro, and behaved like one.
Just think that what you see on TV is some editors version of all the footage shot, and changing order, careful and clever edits, can paint entirely different pictures from the same source material.

Anyway, all said, I hope VP has a happy life, enjoys her TV dancing stint (she'll probably win!!), and carries on succeeding at whatever she chooses to do or be.


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## albion (21 Sep 2012)

We are all human and management is impossible to get totally right.

And I have got to agree.
VP also got on with it so good luck with whatever she wants to do next.


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## Hont (24 Sep 2012)

I think BC (and in particular Shane Sutton) admitted they had made mistakes, but I don't feel that VP has too much right to feel aggrieved in the way it was handled, even if it was badly done. She and Scott were the ones who kept it secret in the first instance after all. You can't help who you fall in love with but you can help how honest you are about it.


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## Crankarm (19 Oct 2012)

She was on again. This time Chris Evan's show this morning fri. She's certainly giving herself full exposure .......


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## Lee_M (19 Oct 2012)

Crankarm said:


> She was on again. This time Chris Evan's show this morning fri. She's certainly giving herself full exposure .......


 
well she needs to do something now and celebrity seems the easiest these days

good luck to her


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## dellzeqq (29 Oct 2012)

interesting piece on Jess Varnish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/29/jess-varnish-team-sprint-pendleton 
Pendleton clearly means a lot to her


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## bellevueace (4 Nov 2012)

No doubt that disappointment will spur her on to better things, similar to Vics terrible opening olympic showing, she came back to be the very best. Sometimes you need to experiance the downside to be able to come back stronger.


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## ColinJ (4 Nov 2012)

bellevueace said:


> No doubt that disappointment will spur her on to better things, similar to Vics terrible opening olympic showing, she came back to be the very best. Sometimes you need to experiance the downside to be able to come back stronger.


But sometimes, when you have already achieved more of the 'better' things than ordinary people could even dream of and the stress of doing so severely screwed you up, you might try giving up on celebrity and competition and give the ordinary life a go!


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## oldroadman (22 Nov 2012)

ColinJ said:


> But sometimes, when you have already achieved more of the 'better' things than ordinary people could even dream of and the stress of doing so severely screwed you up, you might try giving up on celebrity and competition and give the ordinary life a go!


 
Maybe, but if the competitive urge is still there, and the pressure is less, then why not?


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## ColinJ (22 Nov 2012)

oldroadman said:


> Maybe, but if the competitive urge is still there, and the pressure is less, then why not?


Because every time she competes, she seems to get ultra-stressed and bursts into tears? (If she is enjoying it then fair enough!)


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## GilesM (5 Feb 2013)

I've just finsihed reading Between the Lines, really good read and very interesting, VP is definately a very complex individual, perhaps she and the situation with Scott Gardner should have been handled differently, but BC under Brailsford had a ceratin way and certain rules, and no one can say that way hasn't been successful, but you can't help but feel sorry for her and the way she was treated.
Some of the stuff about the actual cycling shows just how amazing she really was, somebody her size with the strength and power to start from a standing start and get up to speed quickly in the team sprint, on a 96" gear, that's impressive.


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## mark st1 (5 Feb 2013)

Anyone know where you can view the documentary about her ?


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## oldroadman (6 Feb 2013)

GilesM said:


> I've just finsihed reading Between the Lines, really good read and very interesting, VP is definately a very complex individual, perhaps she and the situation with Scott Gardner should have been handled differently, but BC under Brailsford had a ceratin way and certain rules, and no one can say that way hasn't been successful, but you can't help but feel sorry for her and the way she was treated.
> Some of the stuff about the actual cycling shows just how amazing she really was, somebody her size with the strength and power to start from a standing start and get up to speed quickly in the team sprint, on a 96" gear, that's impressive.


 
Perhaps looking much further back to very early years may be helpful, there was a lot of pressure exerted to succeed to please a certain person, and this could have greatly contributed to what happened later. There is a difficult line between support and undue pressure, and treading it calls for great skill.


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## Leedsbusdriver (9 Feb 2013)

mark st1 said:


> Anyone know where you can view the documentary about her ?


 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgt9KUmGfI&playnext=1&list=PL10427264149EC12E&feature=results_video


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## mark st1 (9 Feb 2013)

Leedsbusdriver said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgt9KUmGfI&playnext=1&list=PL10427264149EC12E&feature=results_video




Thanks mate appreciate that


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## fatalbert (1 Mar 2013)

Way to go Vick, good luck for the future


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