# Blown my thighs, twice!!!!



## Nick Stone (9 Jun 2013)

Hi all

I've completed a sportive and a couple of longer rides the year, the last yesterday. The problem is that twice now I've come to big hills and got half way up and my thighs have blown, locked out and I feel unable to move them till I've had a few minutes. This is not what I want or happened in the past. After a rest of a couple of minutes still buggered. 

Yesterday it was Roby Mil, half way and had to push the last bit. My last 10-12 miles of the ride was a drag and slowed the ride down no end, with the guys I was riding with having to slow and wait for me on a number of occasions, not what they wanted either.

Bit about me - not very svelte , but working on it and is great, I'm using few bits of High 5, and can tap out around 15-16 mph for 30ish miles with no massive hills. So my weight is coming down, I eat quite well and varied and now my wight=faster up hill is getting better.

Any advice or ideas would be great 24 hours later and I've still got some pain, other nutrition or supplements, stretches anything considered or I'm off to Holland.....

Thanks


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## HLaB (9 Jun 2013)

There's no magic pill, you just have to get out there and do longer/ hillier rides.


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## rualexander (9 Jun 2013)

lower gears?


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## cyberknight (9 Jun 2013)

rualexander said:


> lower gears?


What i was thinking too.


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## Broadside (9 Jun 2013)

Lots of stretches on your quads after every ride, Google to improve your understanding of the muscles in this area. Also may be worth getting getting a foam roller, I have occasional issues with my quads and the foam roller is the fix for me. There are some good foam roller massage videos on Youtube that show you how to do it.

I find that I can get away without stretches for a few rides but the problems subtly build up and then all of a sudden I have issues out on the road. Prevention is better than cure etc...

Also watch your nutrition, if you are riding in deficit this can but additonal strain on your muscles and that is when you will hurt them.


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## Monsieur Remings (9 Jun 2013)

Lower gears and maybe ride on your own for a bit? This might ease some sub-conscious pressure on your part - however great your friends are - regarding having to do as well as them? Just a thought.

Make sure you use something for recovery too; protein to repair the small tears in the fibres of the muscles, caused by exercise.

And don't overdo it...


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## Crankarm (9 Jun 2013)

When you state "blown thighs" ...... what do you mean?

What weight are you, height and age? How much cycling do you actually do, just sportives once in a while? If so you need to be riding a lot more regularly to build up the miles.

Don't push heavy gears especially up hill.


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## Nick Stone (9 Jun 2013)

Cheers guys, I do most of the riding on my own, but not to hilly here so m going try some repeats on what I've got and add to some of my longer routes, touching nearly 30-40miles for a good spin out plus commute a couple of times a week. 

Ill look at my blocks for the lower gears, was riding a ultegra compact with a 12-30 on the back, any ideas what I could try instead. I know on my Allez there would have been no chance I could have got so far. 

I do try and fuel to ride, pasta before (most of the time) but as usual work, study, and family all have a part to play. Yes getting out more is a definite as the nights are still good and I don't mind getting wet n the rain either.

My pill is riding, to relax and unwind I push myself on my bike and don't have to think about anything else whilst I'm out.


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## Nick Stone (9 Jun 2013)

Crankarm said:


> When you state "blown thighs" ...... what do you mean?
> 
> What weight are you, height and age? How much cycling do you actually do, just sportives once in a while? If so you need to be riding a lot more regularly to build up the miles.
> 
> Don't push heavy gears especially up hill.




I'm 36, 6ft and just under 18 3/4 stone now, I've rode mountain bikes most of the time, even in the alps so can get up hills. I also used to do 1-2 spinning classes a week and last few weeks have been 60 miles plus a week which is good for the time I've had available to me. 

My thighs just lock up, I've been googling and something about oxygen starvation to muscles sounds like it, is this true? I've also got a massive vein on my leg that needs stripping so this could compound it. 

I not that unhealthy, although you could question it, diet is good, nutrition is good, fuel well no idea at present


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## mcshroom (9 Jun 2013)

A compact with 30t on the back should be good enough for most stuff. I'm going to guess you are attacking hills too hard and your body can't sustain the effort. What sort of heart rate did you have when you 'blew'? If it was really racing then that might be a good sign.

I think the answer is just to keep riding up hills, especially sustained inclines if that is what you are struggling with. If there aren't any hills around then ride straight into a headwind for similarly demoralising effects.


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## Crankarm (9 Jun 2013)

Nick Stone said:


> I'm 36, 6ft and just under 18 3/4 stone now, I've rode mountain bikes most of the time, even in the alps so can get up hills. I also used to do 1-2 spinning classes a week and last few weeks have been 60 miles plus a week which is good for the time I've had available to me.
> 
> My thighs just lock up, I've been googling and something about oxygen starvation to muscles sounds like it, is this true? I've also got a massive vein on my leg that needs stripping so this could compound it.
> 
> I not that unhealthy, although you could question it, diet is good, nutrition is good, fuel well no idea at present


 
Sounds like you have low tolerance to lactic acid build up ie you are not as fit as you think. I would take it much easier and ignore the peer pressure your saddle companions are putting on you. Even for 6ft - 18 3/4 stone is still really rather heavy. You need to build up the miles in your legs. Try riding every day and cutting down on your calorie in take, but sensibly don't deprive yourself of essential food groups. Just eat a little less and cut out the crap in your diet. Drink lots, water not alcohol, to remain hydrated.


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## Ningishzidda (10 Jun 2013)

Don't worry.
My first Castleton Classic 200 BRM Audax was done walking up most of the hills. Completed sucessfully though.
The bike had a 42 x 28 lowest.
After some purpose hills on my ride home from work during the next winter season, I rode the same Audax and only walked up one hill.
On the third ride, I rode up every hill. Then the INFO points were changed and some steeper hills appeared in the route. So I fitted a new chainset with a 30 tooth inner ring.


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## Rob3rt (10 Jun 2013)

Drop 4-6 stone (which you are doing) and ride your bike more. 60 miles a week is not a lot in the grand scheme of things. I am guessing this is 405 hours worth of riding, you can achieve great things on that, but if sounds like you mostly need to ride more.


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## Nick Stone (10 Jun 2013)

Sweet I think it's a combination of everything everyone's said so ill be cracking on


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## screenman (11 Jun 2013)

To be fair if you loaded my bike with a 5 gallon container of water ( and this is only 3 stone ish) it would make my thighs sore up some hills. Sounds like there lies most of your problems, but I imagine you knew that already.

Keep it up, I did and still feel great many years later.


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## neilb1906 (11 Jun 2013)

Crankarm said:


> Sounds like you have low tolerance to lactic acid build up ie you are not as fit as you think. I would take it much easier and ignore the peer pressure your saddle companions are putting on you. Even for 6ft - 18 3/4 stone is still really rather heavy. You need to build up the miles in your legs. Try riding every day and cutting down on your calorie in take, but sensibly don't deprive yourself of essential food groups. Just eat a little less and cut out the crap in your diet. Drink lots, water not alcohol, to remain hydrated.


 

Perfect advice ^^


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## Ningishzidda (11 Jun 2013)

Crankarm said:


> Sounds like you have low tolerance to lactic acid build up ie you are not as fit as you think. I would take it much easier and ignore the peer pressure your saddle companions are putting on you. Even for 6ft - 18 3/4 stone is still really rather heavy. You need to build up the miles in your legs. Try riding every day and cutting down on your calorie in take, but sensibly don't deprive yourself of essential food groups. Just eat a little less and cut out the crap in your diet. Drink lots, water not alcohol, to remain hydrated.


 
Define 'crap'.

Half way through a 200 rando, a McDonalds Big Mac & fries with full sugar coke is just perfect.

Micky D et al have a bad press because people eat it IN ADDITION to their usual stuff.

A 12" pizza is about 1000 cals. Just right before a 100 km Audax. No need to take gels and energy bars.
Some would call a 12" pizza "crap".


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## Rob3rt (11 Jun 2013)

Ningishzidda said:


> Define 'crap'.
> 
> Half way through a 200 rando, a McDonalds Big Mac & fries with full sugar coke is just perfect.
> 
> ...


 
Only if it came from Dominos.


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## Hip Priest (11 Jun 2013)

Try going as slowly as you can on long hills. I had a tendency to try and get hills 'over with' as quickly as possible, and would blow up long before the summit. Now I take it very steadily, and I usually have enough gas left to sprint over the top.

Like you, I'm no racing snake. 6ft 2, 16.5 stone and my smallest gear is 36-26.


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## TheJDog (11 Jun 2013)

I'm 6ft 4, 14 1/2 stone, and I have a 34-28! And I need it! Trying to crank out a big gear standing up in the pedals is much much harder than spinning a smaller gear for the same speed over a long-ish climb.


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## jowwy (11 Jun 2013)

i'm 5ft 10 - 16st 12lbs - my lowest gear is 30/26 and i defo need it here in wales


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## Hip Priest (11 Jun 2013)

TheJDog said:


> I'm 6ft 4, 14 1/2 stone, and I have a 34-28! And I need it! Trying to crank out a big gear standing up in the pedals is much much harder than spinning a smaller gear for the same speed over a long-ish climb.



Tell me about it. But that's what I've got and I can't afford the necessary parts to change it! So if you see me on a steep climb (10% plus) then I'll more than likely be out of the saddle!


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## Ningishzidda (11 Jun 2013)

5ft 9, 13 st 10lb -

Bike for Audax lowest gear 22 x 27, but never use it.
Bike for clubruns lowest gear 39 x 23. Not used often.


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## Road ride (13 Jun 2013)

dmoran said:


> Lots of stretches on your quads after every ride, Google to improve your understanding of the muscles in this area. Also may be worth getting getting a foam roller, I have occasional issues with my quads and the foam roller is the fix for me. There are some good foam roller massage videos on Youtube that show you how to do it.
> 
> I find that I can get away without stretches for a few rides but the problems subtly build up and then all of a sudden I have issues out on the road. Prevention is better than cure etc...
> 
> Also watch your nutrition, if you are riding in deficit this can but additonal strain on your muscles and that is when you will hurt them.




Stretching before and after a ride is often a area that is neglected by lots of us, after an injury that hurt my back muscles someone pointed me to this book. The Anatomy of stretching by brad walker. Not only is it a step by step guide to each stretch but also tell you how to fix a muscle that is injured and also tells you what stretch will work for which sport and if to use it . It was about £15 quid and has been worth every penny .

Hope this helps and that you get sorted.


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## totallyfixed (13 Jun 2013)

TheJDog said:


> I'm 6ft 4, 14 1/2 stone, and I have a 34-28! And I need it! Trying to crank out a big gear standing up in the pedals is much much harder than spinning a smaller gear for the same speed over a long-ish climb.


 
Not necessarily, I'm your height but quite a bit lighter and can happily stand on the pedals going uphill for miles at a time, weight [and specifically power to weight ratio which includes the bike] fitness, how steep the hill is, and crucially also technique are the ingredients you need to make a good hill climber.


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## TheJDog (14 Jun 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Not necessarily, I'm your height but quite a bit lighter and can happily stand on the pedals going uphill for miles at a time, weight [and specifically power to weight ratio which includes the bike] fitness, how steep the hill is, and crucially also technique are the ingredients you need to make a good hill climber.



I dunno, I bet the efficiency of sitting down and spinning would mean you were faster over anything longer than a minute. In my younger days, I was like you, all eagerness and high gears!


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## Rob3rt (14 Jun 2013)

Road ride said:


> *Stretching before* and after a ride is often a area that is neglected by lots of us, after an injury that hurt my back muscles someone pointed me to this book. The Anatomy of stretching by brad walker. Not only is it a step by step guide to each stretch but also tell you how to fix a muscle that is injured and also tells you what stretch will work for which sport and if to use it . It was about £15 quid and has been worth every penny .
> 
> Hope this helps and that you get sorted.


 

Unless you are talking about dynamic stretches (which may as well be replaced by doing the activity in question, but at a lower intensity) then it is poor form to stretch before exercise.


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## Rob3rt (14 Jun 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Not necessarily, I'm your height but quite a bit lighter and can happily stand on the pedals going uphill for miles at a time, weight [*and specifically power to weight ratio which includes the bike*] fitness, how steep the hill is, and crucially also technique are the ingredients you need to make a good hill climber.


 
Power to weight ratio, as usually stated does not include the bikes weight. It is a measure of the athelete, i.e. how many watts the athlete can output, per kg of body weight. It is also not a static figure but a dynamic figure that is a function of time/duration, eg. an althete will have a different power to weight ratio over 5 minutes than they will over 20 minutes. People tend to state power to weight ratio in a general sense as their FTP value/body weight though.

Of course the weight of the bike should be included in any calculation on how much power is needed to ascend a hill at a given rate though.


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## Road ride (14 Jun 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Unless you are talking about dynamic stretches (which was as well be replaced by doing the activity in question, but at a lower intensity) then it is poor form to stretch before exercise.



I can only comment on my personal experience on the subject and I am in no way an expert but in every sport I have been involved with which have been a few trainers have alway started with a warm up then stretches then exercise and why Brad walker sports and exercise health science coach has written a section about pre and post exercise stretching in the book I mentioned. 

But I would not like to encourage anyone to do anything that they may think was bad form of bad for there health, But to read and review the information available to them and make an informed decision on what is best for them in each given situation.


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## totallyfixed (14 Jun 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Power to weight ratio, as usually stated does not include the bikes weight. It is a measure of the athelete, i.e. how many watts the athlete can output, per kg of body weight. It is also not a static figure but a dynamic figure that is a function of time/duration, eg. an althete will have a different power to weight ratio over 5 minutes than they will over 20 minutes. People tend to state power to weight ratio in a general sense as their FTP value/body weight though.
> 
> Of course the weight of the bike should be included in any calculation on how much power is needed to ascend a hill at a given rate though.


 
Not disagreeing, I've been at this a long time and the one thing that is often dismissed is technique, a good technique will allow a rider to maintain efficiency for very long periods and therefore take advantage of power to weight ratio. In the recent National 25 this was massively skewed because of a pan flat course, not the smoothest of roads and a nasty wind. See you at the National Hill Climb?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Jun 2013)

What is "good technique"? how does one know if technique is good/bad/terrible/blah?


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## Rob3rt (14 Jun 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> Not disagreeing, I've been at this a long time and the one thing that is often dismissed is technique, a good technique will allow a rider to maintain efficiency for very long periods and therefore take advantage of power to weight ratio. In the recent National 25 this was massively skewed because of a pan flat course, not the smoothest of roads and a nasty wind. See you at the National Hill Climb?


 

@totallyfixed that reminds me, I meant to pm you back long ago after you sent me some advice re the National HC, I forgot (probably delayed replying so I could get any questions in one reply rather than a few, then just ended up forgetting altogether), my apologies. Anyway, I will most likely be entering the National Hill Climb this year, mostly because it looks like a lot of fun with the atmosphere etc, although maybe not going to be as good this year up the Stang, the Rake really lends itself to the atmosphere IMO! Whether I get a ride, that is another matter, I haven't done anything hilly for some time so do not know how my climbing is shaping up (will find out next Month I guess, club HC up the Cat & Fiddle), but come the local HC season going live, I will be entering all open events I can get to so provided I don't totally bomb, maybe I will get a ride in the National.

Re. the National 25, next year I will likely put an entry in, should get in. It closed on 1:02:07 this year AFAIK, so would have got in. I should be able to do a 55 or so on a fast course.


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## totallyfixed (14 Jun 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> @totallyfixed that reminds me, I meant to pm you back long ago after you sent me some advice re the National HC, I forgot (probably delayed replying so I could get any questions in one reply rather than a few, then just ended up forgetting altogether), my apologies. Anyway, I will most likely be entering the National Hill Climb this year, mostly because it looks like a lot of fun with the atmosphere etc, although maybe not going to be as good this year up the Stang, the Rake really lends itself to the atmosphere IMO! Whether I get a ride, that is another matter, I haven't done anything hilly for some time so do not know how my climbing is shaping up (will find out next Month I guess, club HC up the Cat & Fiddle), but come the local HC season going live, I will be entering all open events I can get to so provided I don't totally bomb, maybe I will get a ride in the National.
> 
> Re. the National 25, next year I will likely put an entry in, should get in. It closed on 1:02:07 this year AFAIK, so would have got in. I should be able to do a 55 or so on a fast course.


Good stuff, see you there if not before.


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## totallyfixed (14 Jun 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> What is "good technique"? how does one know if technique is good/bad/terrible/blah?


 
This is somewhat of a generalisation but, watch the cycle leg of a triathlon if you want an example of poor technique. In a nutshell, if you are riding efficiently then you have good technique. I'm not going to get into a discussion about it with you as I am aware of your views from previous threads. Sorry, didn't understand the "blah" bit.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jun 2013)

If you can't tell me what "good technique" is, then watching a triathlete video probably isn't going to explain anything either, when you can't tell me what I'd be looking for!

What should I be looking for when "technique" is good?(or re:video - what makes triathlete "technique" poor?) How do I know I'm riding efficiently thus having "good technique"?

Now is your chance to shine and enlighten TF. The floor is yours and I will say no more.


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## jowwy (15 Jun 2013)

totallyfixed said:


> This is somewhat of a generalisation but, watch the cycle leg of a triathlon if you want an example of poor technique. In a nutshell, if you are riding efficiently then you have good technique. I'm not going to get into a discussion about it with you as I am aware of your views from previous threads. Sorry, didn't understand the "blah" bit.





T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> If you can't tell me what "good technique" is, then watching a triathlete video probably isn't going to explain anything either, when you can't tell me what I'd be looking for!
> 
> What should I be looking for when "technique" is good?(or re:video - what makes triathlete "technique" poor?) How do I know I'm riding efficiently thus having "good technique"?
> 
> Now is your chance to shine and enlighten TF. The floor is yours and I will say no more.


you won't win cause TMHNET knows everything


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jun 2013)

jowwy said:


> you won't win cause TMHNET knows everything


That must be why I asked someone else what "good technique" was 

ps: you were very slow at getting to the thread this time jowwy. Did you have a lie-in this morning? Maybe you know what "a good technique" is?


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## jowwy (15 Jun 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> That must be why I asked someone else what "good technique" was
> 
> ps: you were very slow at getting to the thread this time jowwy. Did you have a lie-in this morning? Maybe you know what "a good technique" is?


don't particullaly care to be honest, but triathlon cyclists do have a lot of hip rock, but thats just my opinion


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## totallyfixed (15 Jun 2013)

Sorry, not even slightly tempted. A forum is a poor teaching / descriptive platform as I have come to realise, far better to practically demonstrate.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (15 Jun 2013)

That's a shame, you seemed like a good person to ask what technique was after saying it was often dismissed, yet crucial to climbing.


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