# Criterium du Dauphiné, 8-15 June 2014 ***spoilers***



## smutchin (3 Jun 2014)

All the main TdF contenders going head to head over a properly mountainous course. This could be interesting!

http://www.letour.com/criterium-du-dauphine/2014


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## smutchin (3 Jun 2014)

Highlight of the opening 10km ITT is a new tunnel through Lyon...
http://road.cc/content/news/112664-...pedestrian-tunnel-feature-dauphiné-time-trial


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## TissoT (3 Jun 2014)

Cant wait .... This is one of my Fav .This will be very interesting !


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## The Couch (3 Jun 2014)

smutchin said:


> Highlight of the opening 10km ITT is a new tunnel through Lyon...
> http://road.cc/content/news/112664-video-lyons-stunning-new-cyclist-pedestrian-tunnel-feature-dauphiné-time-trial


Not the best of comments on the bottom of the article (then again...are they ever? )
Does look awfully dark (at places) in the video's and for such a wide tunnel not that much space for bikers

But should be fine for the pro cyclists who ride on a closed circuit


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## thom (8 Jun 2014)

Simon Fuller has nothing to do with this - really looking forward to see how Nibbles and Bertie compare to Froome pre tour. 
SKY clearly being anything but complacent - there's a real opportunity to land psychological needling blows in this one.

Bring on the racing !


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## robertob (8 Jun 2014)

Should be really interesting Dauphine and give us some insight about what mike can happen a couple of weeks later when it really matters. I expect all the main contenders to be in good shape and I imagine Contador will want to show that he is in good form in particular. 

The TT today might well go to Kwiatkowski but I wouldn'd expect Froome to far away. Some interesting young contenders here too and will be interesting to see what they can do today, mainly the names of Damien Howsom, Alexis Gougeard and Anton Vorobyev spring to my mind.


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## raindog (8 Jun 2014)

Can't believe we've still got an unrepentant ex-doper commentating on FR3 and France2


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## rich p (8 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> Can't believe we've still got an unrepentant ex-doper commentating on FR3 and France2


Armstrong's French isn't up to the task, is it?


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## raindog (8 Jun 2014)

A super skinny, super strong Berto just been pushed off


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## tug benson (8 Jun 2014)

how smart is that tunnel


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## rich p (8 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> A super skinny, super strong Berto just been pushed off


He looks to be trying pretty hard too


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## raindog (8 Jun 2014)

Nibali!! Come on lad!


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## rich p (8 Jun 2014)

Bert gets it so far


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## rich p (8 Jun 2014)

Wow, Froome nails it by a metaphorical street!


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## tug benson (8 Jun 2014)

Offt..Froomedog


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## thom (8 Jun 2014)

Wowser - Froome !

That is a big big time difference


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## rich p (8 Jun 2014)

Did Kirby, the over-excitable pillock, really say trhat Froome wasn't really a TTer at some point ?


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## smutchin (8 Jun 2014)

OMFG. Is that a statement of intent or what?


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## smutchin (8 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> A super skinny, super strong Berto just been pushed off



Physically, both Froome and Contador look in incredible shape. Not an ounce of fat between them. Nibali is skinny by any normal human standards but he looks positively lardy compared to them.


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## tug benson (8 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> Did Kirby, the over-excitable pillock, really say trhat Froome wasn't really a TTer at some point ?


 Aye said he had too much roll in his shoulders


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## raindog (8 Jun 2014)

Berto when told of the 8 second difference
"Hey, eeeees ok"


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## raindog (8 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> Did Kirby, the over-excitable pillock, really say trhat Froome wasn't really a TTer at some point ?


To be fair, Froome looks like a bag of spanners, whatever he's riding


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## robertob (8 Jun 2014)

Super Froome. He's a machine and certainly wanted to prove his authority. Had him 16/1 to win it today. But rather had my eye on a podium finish than the win. So that was really impressive after all. But also great ride by Contador who not did better than many would have expected. That sets it up nicely for tomorrow.


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## robertob (9 Jun 2014)

Should be an entertaining stage today, loads to climb, even though nothing too difficult. I would expect the big names to show their face today, at least Nibali and Contandor should attack. Sky might want to control things though, as a test for the Tour. Might be hard for a breakaway to make it today, especially with the time bonus available on the line, which will be something the GC contenders want to get. I have three other names in mind to well today as well. NetApp's GC contender Leopold König is a superb climber and I expect him to go into the attack today. So should be the French hope Romain Bardet who might be ideally suited by this stage. And what about Tejay van Garderen? Really good TT yesterday, he seems to have a bit of form after all his injury problems this year and might want to test his legs in the mountains as well to see on what level he is at the moment.


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

Series of attacks by Froome. Bit of a high-risk strategy. He doesn't want to tow Bertie to the top.


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

Nibali looks in trouble. Pretty select group up front: Froome, Bertie, Nibali, Talansky, Kelderman. Van den Brouk. Good stuff this.


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

Wow! 
Big psychological score for Froome. Well done to Kelderman too. Great stuff.


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## Dayvo (9 Jun 2014)

HOT DOGG!

Great last km from Froome: attack after attack and holds them all off.



Has Contador got new teeth?


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

Massive pointers for the tour. Nibali has not got it. Contador is a couple of rib-eyes short and hadn't got enough when it came to it. Nice to see a real young contender on a Bianchi. (Kelderman). One of the Yates boys was up there too. Big day this. Huge guts from Froome.


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## Flying_Monkey (9 Jun 2014)

Apollonius said:


> One of the Yates boys was up there too.



Adam - he finished in 8th, 42 seconds down.


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## jdtate101 (9 Jun 2014)

I think that's the hardest Froome's had to work for a victory I can remember, right down to the line. Fantastic stuff from both Contador and Froome....the TdF should be a right ding dong given this performance.


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

https://flic.kr/p/nCs2XD
Not sure if that works. It was an attempt to link to a picture of Keldermann's bike for the queen stage of the Giro (Galvi, Stelvio et al)


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## RobNewcastle (9 Jun 2014)

Awesome stage and action! Contador looks a lot stronger but Froome just seems to be able to throw a relentless barrage of attacks! The tour is going to be interesting to be interesting. Nibali as someone has already pointed out is going to be dropped on the big climbs, hasn't got it.

Definite question marks over Porte but I think we'll know for sure about his form come the proper steep stuff on sat. Even if he isn't in top form he'll still go to the tour but sky may have to think about taking another climber for TDF.


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## deptfordmarmoset (9 Jun 2014)

Apollonius said:


> Wow!
> Big psychological score for Froome. Well done to Kelderman too. Great stuff.


I wonder how big a score. Immense effort from Froome but Contador stuck with him and AC could save a lot of energy sitting behind for a while. Great racing entertainment though. Oh, and did I hear that Adam Yates came in eighth?


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## Apollonius (9 Jun 2014)

I am pretty sure Contador wanted that. The TdF is going to be between those two (and possibly Nibali, but not after today, I feel), and Froome has landed the first blow. Not a knockout, sure, but that gives him the upper hand.
Sky will be very happy with their work. Pate and Kiryenka put in a lot of work and Thomas and Nieve worked hard on the climb. I guess they are all showing they are the A-team.


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## RobNewcastle (9 Jun 2014)

Contador was able to stay with him but just about and he was clearly on the limit. The question is can Contador then deliver something and go over the top of Froome in response? I think it's more likely Contador wilts under Froome's attacks than vice versa but Contador is a canny rider and he looks much better than last year. It's quite clearly looking these two to duke it out for the tour win and both riders will still have a few % to go before the tour to hit top form so it bodes for an exciting race.


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## rliu (9 Jun 2014)

The vultures will be circling round Nibali in the Italian press after that. While what a season Wilco Kelderman is having.


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2014)

Just watched the last few K and what a finish. Nibali still has 3 weeks and he wasn't far away, see where he is later in the race. Contador has not raced for a few months, so that was an ominous performance and then Kelderman, Van Den Broeck looked good, Igor Anton not far down and Yates again, that California performance was no fluke.


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## jdtate101 (9 Jun 2014)

RobNewcastle said:


> Contador was able to stay with him but just about and he was clearly on the limit. The question is can Contador then deliver something and go over the top of Froome in response? I think it's more likely Contador wilts under Froome's attacks than vice versa but Contador is a canny rider and he looks much better than last year. It's quite clearly looking these two to duke it out for the tour win and both riders will still have a few % to go before the tour to hit top form so it bodes for an exciting race.



He seemed to try and go over the top just before the line, got about level with Chris, who then kicked again and pulled about a bike length clear.


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## RobNewcastle (9 Jun 2014)

How much time do people think Froome could/might put into Contador in that final tour 54km TT? Assuming neither loses serious time due to a crash or the cobbles and it comes down to the mountains/TT how much of a buffer might Contador need going into the TT?


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## montage (9 Jun 2014)

RobNewcastle said:


> How much time do people think Froome could/might put into Contador in that final tour 54km TT? Assuming neither loses serious time due to a crash or the cobbles and it comes down to the mountains/TT how much of a buffer might Contador need going into the TT?


A minute


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Jun 2014)

Nothing between Froome and Contador there. Very exciting racing. Froome wanted to distance all of his opponents and not just ride them off the wheel a bit. Contador replied and replied super strong!! 

I expect Nibbles to be nearer peak form come July and still think it is a three horse race. Froome and Contador are most likely though imo. 

Perhaps slightly more worrying was the the disintegration of Froome's lead out up the climb. Though Nieve look strong, Porte looked to be really struggling and would usually be the last man. 

Thinking this will be a very exciting TDF.


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## thom (9 Jun 2014)




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## RobNewcastle (9 Jun 2014)

Yeah what happened to Lopez, he was sat just behind Froome? The pace Thomas and Nieve were cranking out cracked him too it looked like. He needs a stronger showing in the tour this year.


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## PpPete (9 Jun 2014)

I can't help thinking that when Contador declined Froome's invitation to ride with him he made the right tactical decision .... but what turned out to be the wrong 'un strategically.
If they'd worked together they might well have put more substantial time gaps into Nibali, Kelderman, Talansky, Van den Broeck - and still come over the line together as 1-2.
Sure Bertie might still have come second, but he wouldn't have the knowledge that he's followed all the way up and still couldn't get past at the line.


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## suzeworld (9 Jun 2014)

Where are you watching this, guys?


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## thom (9 Jun 2014)

Great riding from Froome. I wonder though. Something of a benchmarking exercise for SKY and a reality check; in racing terms you'd want a larger dividend from such violent efforts. In a 3 week tour which is much more attritional, where riders need to show their best form in week 3, front running with only seconds to play with is tough. 
Tempting to try to read a lot into these 2 days but Bertie will only be better for the tour.


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## Crackle (9 Jun 2014)

suzeworld said:


> Where are you watching this, guys?


Live
http://www.procyclinglive.com/livestream/

Youtube for catchups


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## robertob (9 Jun 2014)

Froome looks increasingly like super human to me. It was a monstrous pace they went up the final climb and when he finally took it up he threw in some unbelievable accelerations in succession. He clearly was the strongest rider. Contador did extremely well to keep the wheel even though for a moment towards the end it looked as if he would lose it when Froome accelerated. Contador was completely on his limit and did as good possible. If he would have been able, he would have attacked. But he wasn't able and isn't the old Contador anymore. And he knows it. So for that he rode smart. I doubt that will make any difference towards the end result though. 

To my eyes, Froome looks pretty much impossible to beat. He well may have one not so good day at some point, but in general he'll kill them all on the mountain if he wants. If that is all down to pure natural talent and double espressos... well I have to admit that I'm starting to doubt. Anyways, I hope that someone will emerge at the Tour ( Rui Costa, Warren Barguil?) to make it real race...

Kelderman was impressive today. He was impressive at the Giro too. Clearly a bright prospect for the future and possibly the Tour next year. I really like his attacking style. He's spectacular. Was not so impressed with the riders that I wanted to see a performance from today. Romain Bardet was up there until it really mattered, faded away then as did van Garderen. Also would have hoped Leopold König could hold on longer than he eventually did...


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## Dave Davenport (9 Jun 2014)

Just watched the highlights programme, fantastic bike racing. Froome has got the edge on Bertie physically but I still think he's in with a chance of beating him at the tour by being smarter.


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## rich p (9 Jun 2014)

Sky need to have a good think about the team after this. It reminded me of last year's TDF where Froome was isolated early. Lopez was pretty anonymous last year as I repeatedly said. Getting burnt out after riding behind the rest is pretty worrying.
Nieve is a good rider and is used to being super mtn dom. Porte's form is still looking a bit flaky and he's running out of time. For Froome to consider him to be a possible plan B is hope over expectation.
if Wiggins rides a good Td Suisse he may throw a spanner in the works and it will make his non-selection political rather than form - whatever Sir Dave says.
Why is Kennaugh not here after last years superb support for Froome? Is he still knackered?


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## tigger (9 Jun 2014)

Hmm interesting. As per Crackle and Thom for me. We all know Froome's the man to beat but historically (pre doping ban admittedly) Contador has always been a little short of his best at the Dauphine and peaks at the Tour. I definitely wouldn't write Nibbles off yet either, he seems to have a shorter peak form window than the other top GC riders, so that performance seemed about right for him too at this stage. The smart money is still on Froome but maybe there could a least be a contest come July...???


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## PpPete (10 Jun 2014)

Chances of Nibbles downhill attack today?






or is 37km too far to TT after?


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## smutchin (10 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> Why is Kennaugh not here after last years superb support for Froome? Is he still knackered?



No idea but agreed, he would be useful. I think they're missing Stannard too.


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## thom (10 Jun 2014)

smutchin said:


> No idea but agreed, he would be useful. I think they're missing Stannard too.


Kennaugh will be in the Tour de Suisse.

Shock horror! Perhaps despite Wiggos' Simon Fuller prompted assertions, this Dauphine squad isn't actually the final one for the tour.
Anyone might think he was looking to make the decision not to go to the tour out of Brailsford's hands...


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## smutchin (10 Jun 2014)

robertob said:


> If that is all down to pure natural talent and double espressos... well I have to admit that I'm starting to doubt.



This isn't a three-week race, and I'm sure Sky will have measured out exactly how much effort Froome can afford to put in. The fact that a decent but not explosive climber like Kelderman can keep up even though he'll be knackered from the Giro puts the performance in some context. 

There's more context in the performance of Adam Yates - looking like a potential GT winner in the making but he's very young... He's had an amazing season so far but it'll be interesting to see how he copes with the rigours of the TdF, assuming OGE take him. 



> Anyways, I hope that someone will emerge at the Tour ( Rui Costa, Warren Barguil?) to make it real race...



You're concerned about Froome's performance but you're bigging up an actual convicted doper? Interesting.


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## smutchin (10 Jun 2014)

montage said:


> A minute



But how much time will Ten Dam put into the pair of them?


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## tug benson (10 Jun 2014)

What was up with the Lopez and Porte no show yesterday? Froome is lucky he had nieve with him.


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## accountantpete (10 Jun 2014)

tug benson said:


> What was up with the Lopez and Porte no show yesterday? Froome is lucky he had nieve with him.


I think Porte has one of those "unidentified" illnesses - probably a virus.


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## tug benson (10 Jun 2014)

If Porte keeps this form up he should not go to the Tour, let's hope Porte as Lopez are saving themselves for this weekend stages


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## RobNewcastle (10 Jun 2014)

Lopez is in the team to be a solid climber but he had an average at best tour last year. They need more from him especially if Porte isn't firing. Saturday will answer a lot of questions because there's a couple of really tough climbs. Sky can't afford to be carrying too many.

I think of Kennaugh rides well in Swiss he should come back into the team and I guess it'll be between Pate/Knees for the last position.


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## Louch (10 Jun 2014)

froome looking very Armstrong like yesterday.


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## MikeG (10 Jun 2014)

RobNewcastle said:


> ..........I guess it'll be between Pate/Knees for the last position.



Forgive an ignorant question.......but when you say "the last position", why so? I thought that teams could be any size. Is that not the case?


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## Louch (10 Jun 2014)

9 per team


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## robertob (10 Jun 2014)

smutchin said:


> You're concerned about Froome's performance but you're bigging up an actual convicted doper? Interesting.


Nope, you probably see that in the wrong context. All I said is I hope there is a race on in July and I suspect that if there is a bit of action, that one of the two names mentioned could emerge as a contender to put a bit of pressure on Froome. Where you see the correlation with doping... I don't know. 

If you don't share my doubts about the nature of Froome's performance, that's fair enough. I would also love to believe he is clean - but I admit that I begin to doubt. That's all. For me he looks like super human and unbeatable, which reminds me of one certain former US rider. In general the way he races and wins, puts the expression of "unbelievable" on my face. And I start to find it hard to believe that performances like that are possible to achieve only on the basis of espresso with honey, as Froome stated recently as his secret for success. It was a monster performance from Froome yesterday anyway, doesn't matter if start of the Dauphine or in the middle of a three weeks tour. Those accelerations in succession, again and again, and still he pulled clear of the rest, with some decent climbers in the field, while only Contador able to follow... it was astonishing - for me at least. 

I would like to think Kelderman is very much race fit from the Giro and was rather expected to put in a good performance at this early stage of the Dauphine. I would expect him to get into trouble towards the end though. 

But don't get me wrong. After all, I want to see spectacular racing. However I'm well aware that doping will always be part of this sport in one or another way. It's not that I want to be the upholder of moral standards though. If they are on the juice - well so it be. Nothing I can do about it and doesn't affect my interest in the sport. I was just watching last weekend the highlights of the 1996 tour. Great racing! But we all know it was during the heights of EPO doping. All I say is "Mr. 60%". Still it was fantastic racing (including some unbelievable performances). And that is what matters for me in the end. It still is a brutal sport for these guys out there, with our without doping. And I have huge respect for all of them. But just because I'm well aware of that, it doesn't mean that I can't doubt certain performances and riders when I find it increasingly hard to believe that it is all down to "only" hard training...


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## Crackle (10 Jun 2014)

robertob said:


> .... It was a monster performance from Froome yesterday anyway, doesn't matter if start of the Dauphine or in the middle of a three weeks tour. Those accelerations in succession, again and again, and still he pulled clear of the rest, with some decent climbers in the field, while only Contador able to follow... it was astonishing - for me at least...



Just on this: in terms of monster performances, it's not a patch on the 90's performances where riders would attack and sustain it. Panatani, Risse, Armstrong and others put in those kind of attacks and from a long way out, 12K or more. Froomes attack was not in that league, he jumped and then slowed and others came back. Despite his jumps, they were all pretty much together until 500m and both him and Contador really looked like they were suffering in the last 100. People talk about times up climbs being similar, which makes it unbelievable but the style of riding has changed and teams ride tempo, which with a few exceptions they didn't up until recently, preferring a trusted lieutenant to accompany their favourite. Even a juiced up Motorola used to shed their team pretty quickly once on the last hill.

I reserve the right to be surprised but I'm not seeing anything truly unbelievable and when you do it sticks out, like Sayar at the Tour of Turkey, a complete unknown riding a huge gear up a mtn stage and winning. Then there's the usual suspects long associated with a dodgy past who you can never really trust again.


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## Dave Davenport (10 Jun 2014)

Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, I believe Froome is clean. It wasn't like he was a mile up the road on his own and the accelerations weren't sustained for 10+ minutes in the way doped (and those eating Spanish steak) riders used to.


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## RobNewcastle (10 Jun 2014)

You can call me massively naive but I firmly believe Froome races clean. Brailsford stakes too much of his reputation with the anti-drug stance and I just don't believe he'd allow anything like that to go on in his teams. I also believe Froome's anti-drug stance too. Comparing him to Armstrong is farcical.

Froome was racing dogged by bilharzia for years which affected his immune system with relapses. That's been sorted and he trains like a bastard at altitude which is good enough for me as his reason for super human form. 

If Froome was done for doping however I'd probably call it quits with cycling though and lose interest. It would be one scandal too far


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## rich p (10 Jun 2014)

It looked absolutely nothing like a dominant, dope-fuelled Armstrong performance. He was in agony, Contador was grimacing, a 21 year old Yates was only 40 odd seconds back in 9th place.
LA would have been minutes ahead and scarcely puffing.


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## robertob (10 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> Froomes attack was not in that league, he jumped and then slowed and others came back. Despite his jumps, they were all pretty much together until 500m and both him and Contador really looked like they were suffering in the last 100.



That is true, however we shouldn't forget that they went quite some pace before (visually it looked like that to me at least). Sky really put on the pressure and we saw many decent riders and climbers to struggle. Based on that, to be able to attack the way Froome did following this, it was astonishing for me. But that was my impression, which I see doesn't match the impression of most others, which is fair enough. I don't want to start a Froome doped/not doped discussion anyway. It was great and enjoyable racing yesterday and that is what matters most. It's just I personally feel that my formerly firm believe in Froome being absolutely clean, to be slightly but steadily shattered. Which doesn't mean I'm so mean to want him being tested positive or anything. There are obviously valid arguments brought up from others here to suggest everything is perfectly fine, which is good and I'm not claiming to be right anyway.


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## tug benson (10 Jun 2014)

Louch said:


> froome looking very Armstrong like yesterday.


I think it's the clinic you're looking for


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## Louch (10 Jun 2014)

tug benson said:


> I think it's the clinic you're looking for


I think I need Fromes "inhaler"


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## Hont (10 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> It looked absolutely nothing like a dominant, dope-fuelled Armstrong performance. He was in agony, Contador was grimacing, a 21 year old Yates was only 40 odd seconds back in 9th place.
> LA would have been minutes ahead and scarcely puffing.


+1 Armstrong attacked then maintained that speed and finished 2-3 minutes clear. Froome made an enormous effort to get rid of Contador but failed and had to recover - going more slowly than the speed he attacked from (hence Kelderman overtaking when he did not slow to match Froome's pace).

We don't truly know if they're all racing clean, but comparisons with the Armstrong era are simplistic and uninformed.


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## robertob (10 Jun 2014)

Of course Froome's performance is nothing compared to what Aromstrong did in his best years. That was a complete different sport those days. But Froome and his team appear to be extremely dominant which does remind me to a certain extend at least on these "good old days". As stated before: The fact to make it such a fast race going up the mountain that some decent riders, that I would consider to climb not too badly, to fade away so easily, and then to be able to take it up from there and accelerate in succession in a way Froome did, and to win it in the end against the main rival - who would have attacked if you have been able to - I thought this was utterly dominant... and impressive... and great racing! And that it was a hell of an effort - of course! If he wouldn't have felt this effort in his legs, then he would be indeed a "super human". 

If this kind of perception of things make me uninformed in the eyes of some - well so it be. I have to live with it. It's my opinion, and I stay with it, because this is the way I feel it.


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## themosquitoking (10 Jun 2014)

robertob said:


> Of course Froome's performance is nothing compared to what Aromstrong did in his best years. That was a complete different sport those days. But Froome and his team appear to be extremely dominant which does remind me to a certain extend at least on these "good old days". As stated before: The fact to make it such a fast race going up the mountain that some decent riders, that I would consider to climb not too badly, to fade away so easily, and then to be able to take it up from there and accelerate in succession in a way Froome did, and to win it in the end against the main rival - who would have attacked if you have been able to - I thought this was utterly dominant... and impressive... and great racing! And that it was a hell of an effort - of course! If he wouldn't have felt this effort in his legs, then he would be indeed a "super human".
> 
> If this kind of perception of things make me uninformed in the eyes of some - well so it be. I have to live with it. It's my opinion, and I stay with it, because this is the way I feel it.


This is assuming all those riders that faded away were in a good enough condition to compete on that day. Clearly Porte, for one, wasn't.


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## Shadowfax (10 Jun 2014)

Well I for one found that last stage very enjoyable and will be sitting down to watch my first TDF in a few weeks. Whether Foome or Contador or a n other wins I don't care but they had better make the most of it, cos there's a new Sheriff in town and he's Columbian !


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## LarryDuff (11 Jun 2014)

That green jersey on Contador looks terrible mixed with the Tinkoff/Saxo shorts.


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## RobNewcastle (11 Jun 2014)

Brailsford on Porte.....

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...d-richie-porte-havent-lost-confidence-125854?

So Saturday for the definitive assessment.....


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## montage (11 Jun 2014)

Read the David Walsh book if you have any doubts - that's what secured it for me.


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## RobNewcastle (11 Jun 2014)

Is the Inside Team sky book montage? Been meaning to read that


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## Dogtrousers (11 Jun 2014)

montage said:


> Read the David Walsh book if you have any doubts - that's what secured it for me.


I hated that book. It was such an obsequious love-letter to Sky. Every single member of the Sky team, from the lowest sock-washer to Brailsford was presented in glowing terms as dedicated and committed to innovative approaches to their vocation, inspired by their sainted ancestors and totally and utterly opposed to doping in everything they do. And anyone who is not in totally love with them is a ranting internet troll. Now _that _was Armstrong-esque. (Not that I'm suggesting Walsh is taking anything other than a few quid from his employers who also happen to sponsor the team).

But I digress. Sorry.


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## Flying_Monkey (12 Jun 2014)

Amazing last few km there - Contador had a good go, but it seems Sky were able to keep everything under control. Nice win for Spilak though, and great to see Kelderman and Yates stealing a few seconds together to both get on the podium.


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## tug benson (12 Jun 2014)

Was it on Eurosport? what time did it finish at?


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## Crackle (12 Jun 2014)

I didn't get anything today, no stream or live text.


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## raindog (12 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> and great to see Kelderman and Yates stealing a few seconds together to both get on the podium.


Yes, nice to see a bit of attacking just for a few seconds benefit. Don't get enough of that kind of thing - so many riders just seem to roll over and die when faced with the big stars.
I know we've said it a million times, but the Yates lads are such a great prospect for the seasons to come.


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## Flying_Monkey (12 Jun 2014)

raindog said:


> the Yates lads are such a great prospect for the seasons to come.



Yes, and what's particularly great is that they seem to be able to race as individuals - unlike the Schlecks - although when they do finally get to work together I can imagine that they will be something else!


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## smutchin (12 Jun 2014)

Haven't seen it yet but absolutely thrilled to bits to see Yates and Kelderman up there. Looking forward to watching the highlights later.


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## Strathlubnaig (12 Jun 2014)

We cycled










over the Col d'Ornon from Bourg to see the race, great stuff, went through twice. Couple snaps for forum interest.


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## montage (13 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Yes, and what's particularly great is that they seem to be able to race as individuals - unlike the Schlecks - although when they do finally get to work together I can imagine that they will be something else!



Until they form Wiggo's mountain train for 2015!


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## RobNewcastle (13 Jun 2014)

From the brief highlights I've seen and the reports it looks like Porte was a lot stronger yesterday.


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## Flying_Monkey (13 Jun 2014)

Froome not threatened today except by his own bike-handling - he hit a pothole, crashed and lost a bit of skin. He seems to be okay and the rest of the peloton waited for him so he remains in the lead. We'll see if it's worse than it looks tomorrow...


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## RobNewcastle (13 Jun 2014)

It would be a shame if it affects him on the climbs tomorrow as it's set up for a great showdown. That said it could easily have been a lot worse, collar bone etc. He didn't look too bad in the interview after but I guess we'll see tomorrow.


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## Flying_Monkey (13 Jun 2014)

To his credit, he is not in any way trying to get his excuses in, in advance!


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## RobNewcastle (13 Jun 2014)

Very true, and to be fair it's good practice for the tour when he may have to ride in a similar situation. You just have to get on with it.


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## raindog (14 Jun 2014)

a biggy this afternoon - not to be missed


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

Should be a cracker of a stage today


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

Kiriyenka riding a big gear. Looks like he's riding in slo mo.


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

Not sure dirty Bertie has the team mates to attack Sky


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## raindog (14 Jun 2014)

Berto doesn't need team mates to attack


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

Bertie goes....


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

Froome goes after him


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jun 2014)

And Froome's now in the chase.


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

Both look on the limit


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

Dont think froome will catch him


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

Wot a ride from Westra after yesterday


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## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jun 2014)

Berti does it! Wow. 

Froome not himself?


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## raindog (14 Jun 2014)

Westra!! Cheeky lad


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## RobNewcastle (14 Jun 2014)

Westra! haha

Wicked stage, bodes well for the tour. Great that Contador looks in good enough shape to really challenge Froome but I also think Froome looked slightly under 100% (he won't say that ofcourse). Porte answered a few questions today too.

Tomorrow could be interesting again but I think Contador will take it.


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## raindog (14 Jun 2014)

Berto looks as if he might peak perfectly for the Tour


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

Talansky looked good too. Yates faded today, looks like he's not ready for a gt yet. Looking forward to tomorrow now.


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## rliu (14 Jun 2014)

Never seen anything like today's stage before with Westra catching and beating 2 Katusha riders working together up the climb. Silin was 16 seconds down on Westra in the end as well so he cracked big-time towards the end. 
I get the feeling Froome may have benefited more if he went out on his own earlier, it seems Porte's pace-making actually slowed him down when a quick reaction to a trademark Bertie attack was needed.


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## RobNewcastle (14 Jun 2014)

Pretty much guess work and I may be wrong but I'd say on another day Froome would probably have been able to respond to that attack quicker with acceleration. Either way the mountains in the tour are going to be an awesome showdown between Froome and Contador.


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## rich p (14 Jun 2014)

Like him or loathe him, Bertie does ride in a brilliantly aggressive style.


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## rich p (14 Jun 2014)

My pet subject...
...Lopez did his usual ride of wheelsucking, with the added bonus of 300 metres in front, before GT had to take over again.


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## robertob (14 Jun 2014)

Bravo Alberto! Great to see Contador attacking - and being successful. Makes tomorrow even more interesting as you can expect Froome to attack and then let's see how has more to offer at this stage of preparation for the tour. I would agree with the suggestion that Froome would have been able to respond to the attack though, if he would have done so, instead of staying on the wheel of Porte. But that's racing. All about the right and wrong decisions which have to be made in a split second sometimes.


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## thom (14 Jun 2014)

SKY showed how to give a GC rider the perfect leadout there. 
The problem was the finisher wasn't on their team.

Likely Froome would have had more in the tank had he not fallen yesterday but what this shows is SKY & Froome may not have the firepower to blow off Contador this year and that Bertie has trained and adapted to counter SKY's strategy.

It makes the TT at the end of the tour mighty important.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> My pet subject...
> ...Lopez did his usual ride of wheelsucking, with the added bonus of 300 metres in front, before GT had to take over again.


Porte didn't do a very long stint on the front either. I thought he was coming into form and had had an easy ride of it up till the end. So I was a little disappointed.


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## rich p (14 Jun 2014)

I find it hard to see what difference it makes to Bertie whether it's 4 Sky riders who are pulling him or a Sinkoff Taxo rider.


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## Crackle (14 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> I find it hard to see what difference it makes to Bertie whether it's 4 Sky riders who are pulling him or a Sinkoff Taxo rider.


Yeah, couldn't help thinking Froome'd been better with no one and sitting back watching others force the pace, because that kind of tempo exposes everyone not feeling good, including him.


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## mr messy (14 Jun 2014)

Would that not have been Froome's call and pre-planned tactic though?


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## Pedrosanchezo (14 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> I find it hard to see what difference it makes to Bertie whether it's 4 Sky riders who are pulling him or a Sinkoff Taxo rider.


Exactly! If Froome is the strongest rider then it works perfectly but if Bertie is stronger then it simply allows Bertie to sit on THEIR train and attack from behind Froome. In fact it showed to be a perfect strategy today from Bertie. 

Wouldn't matter if Sky had 20 riders in that train as none of them are able to go at the pace of Froome or Bertie at the end of a stage.


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## tug benson (14 Jun 2014)

rich p said:


> I find it hard to see what difference it makes to Bertie whether it's 4 Sky riders who are pulling him or a Sinkoff Taxo rider.


 I'd hope thats the talk in the team sky bus tonight


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## Monsieur Remings (14 Jun 2014)

Really haven't seen a great deal of the Dauphine due to work commitments, plus, I get the general feeling that Eurosport coverage is not as good as it was. Highlights at a reasonable hour of the Giro were non-existent. I blame SKY.

The plan, as others have said, worked very well for Bertram today and you've got to hand it to him; perhaps as Rich and Pedro say, the pace set by Sky was counter-productive and maybe following such a single-minded stratagem at the TDF will be unwise.Yes, a lot of riders get found out but is the 4 v 1 scenario at the end of the day that conclusive, unless you're going for the individual stage win? I don't think so. 

Canny riding by the Westra too.

Anyway, Gerard's team should be in yellow tomorrow and I hope Froome can score a few tonight to keep African hope's alive.


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## roadrash (14 Jun 2014)

As already said the sky train worked equally as well for bertie, why use your own team when you can use another for free and maybe save your own for another day.


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## jdtate101 (14 Jun 2014)

You could tell Chris was knackered by the way he was riding. He hardly ever gets out of the saddle unless to attack, but today he was standing at points to follow his team up the last climb. I think that's one of his poker tell's, much like when he gazes off down the road instead of stem watching, when you know he's going to attack. Still all credit to him, with the injuries and probable poor nights sleep, he did really well to minimise what have could have been so much worse.

Just goes to show he's human and can suffer bad days like everyone else.


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## ayceejay (14 Jun 2014)

As the great man said
'Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.'
Fausto Coppi
As others have said when a team has but one tactic - to run like a train dropping carriages as they go - you sit in the behind sheltered and waiting for the last carriage to be close to dropping away and then you give it both guns.
(sorry about the mixed metaphor)
Contador looked good and Froome didn't


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## RobNewcastle (14 Jun 2014)

Whether Froome was 100% or not, a stage like today does wonders for the Froome v Contador challenge/rivalry. It should only serve to motivate Froome. The mountains in the tour will be a right ding dong affair. 

Someone mentioned the importance of the final TT. I'd agree, it'll probably come down to to that one to some degree for the tour. I still think Froome is too strong in the TT for Contador and can handle himself well enough in the mountains too limit losses if he has to.


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## Louch (15 Jun 2014)

Contador can let sky tire themselves out as he sits in their train, and lets his team on other days/ flat stages to gain time there. Unless sky find extra power to tire him out, going to stick to his tactics as they are working.


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## RobNewcastle (15 Jun 2014)

I guess the counter argument to Contador just being able to sit there is that while this might be true you'd rather have a team over a 3 week tour who has men who can stay right up with their leader in the mountains. It's quit easy to have a mechanical, get into trouble with an off day over a 3 week stage race especially in the final week regrading fatigue/off days. Contador is missing a couple of tour starters to be fair.

However I agree sky will have to play a few other cards on those big, tough mountain stages because they can't afford to just pull Contador all the way up then watch him shoot off on a final attack in the last 2k. I still think on a good day in top form Froome is a equal match and more for Contador on the really steep stuff and Contador will know that Froome almost certainly has the measure of him on the TT. Therefore Bertie will know he'll have to take something of an advantage into that TT.


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

Apparently there's a 23 rider break up the road including Talansky and Yates. How the hell were they allowed to get away?


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## NorvernRob (15 Jun 2014)

I wondered if Sky would send a couple of riders up the road today to try and get TS to force the pace and Froome + co have a ride for a change, but I don't think that would have worked as TS just don't have the team here to do any chasing (it appears that way anyway).


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## 400bhp (15 Jun 2014)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Exactly! If Froome is the strongest rider then it works perfectly but if Bertie is stronger then it simply allows Bertie to sit on THEIR train and attack from behind Froome. In fact it showed to be a perfect strategy today from Bertie.
> 
> Wouldn't matter if Sky had 20 riders in that train as none of them are able to go at the pace of Froome or Bertie at the end of a stage.



Just watched the stage. Great tactics from Contador.

I think in this case you're right. Sky's tactic is to ride at one pace. If they varied the pace it might be different.

If anyone follows athletics, think what the Ethopians used to do to Paula Radcliffe. They would gang up on her by constantly changing the pace, which she couldn't handle.


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## 400bhp (15 Jun 2014)

Interesting that Talansky actually caught and passed Froome at the end too.

TDF is going to be superb. Please, please Sky, throw Wiggo in. You never know and if he's within a minute and a half at the penultimate stage he has a chance.


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

Anyone know how that break developed. it seems that the Froome Contador group are isolated as well.


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know how that break developed.


_"The break had its genesis on the Côte de Domancy, where Tejay van Garderen led Bardet over the summit, and the group swelled to 23 riders over the other side"_
Talansky is virtual race leader - mental


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## Dave Davenport (15 Jun 2014)

Bloody Eurosport tossers have still got Le Mans on, even though the race has finished.


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

It's on now, Dave.
FranceTelevision still has hoss racing on FFS.


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## tug benson (15 Jun 2014)

Sky have a plan


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

Nibali attacking now - this is bonkers


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## Dave Davenport (15 Jun 2014)

It's looking like Chris & Bertie could blow this.


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## tug benson (15 Jun 2014)

Thats some lead group froome and contador have got to catch


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## tug benson (15 Jun 2014)

Contador now goes


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## Louch (15 Jun 2014)

This is a crazy last day. Guess I'll just have to cycle after it instead


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

This is one odd stage, can't work out what's happening yet. Maybe Froome was feeling unwell and knew he couldn't do much today


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## NorvernRob (15 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> This is one odd stage, can't work out what's happening yet. Maybe Froome was feeling unwell and knew he couldn't do much today



It looks like Froome is out of it, if he could have gone with Contador surely he would have. Whether the crash has affected him or whether he just doesn't have the legs I don't know.

I was right about Sky sending some riders up the road but not quite like it's turned out!


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## tug benson (15 Jun 2014)

Froome doesn't seem himself, Contador on the chase


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

If Contador saves this on his own it will be EPIC! 

Nibali might catch Talanski but won't put 40-50 seconds into him after that. Talanski looks odds on. 

BONKERS!


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## Louch (15 Jun 2014)

Froome had large bags under his eyes, injuries maybe worse than thought and not sleeping?


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Yeh Froome looks out of it and Berti still has the descent to make more time. 

Berti is taking this back a bit. Awesome last stage!


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Jaysus! Berti put over a minute into Froome already.


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

It did smilingly occur to me that if Froome didn't spend so much time checking his stem out, he might have seen the pothole


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

I suppose the big clue was seeing Nieve was in the breakaway, That was the first thing that surprised me. So Contador has mistakenly marked Froome and missed the break. Can he catch them. Talansky looked good yesterday.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Kirkby is writing Berti off here! Must be mad. Contador is climbing like a mountain goat!! 

He is more than capable i think and i still fancy Berti for this. 

Would be HUGE for Talansky though. Loving this.


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

haha - this is insane - Berto giving Sky the finger


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Talansky is distanced! Gap must be 45-50 seconds?


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Stunning again from Yates.


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## Supersuperleeds (15 Jun 2014)

Talansky takes it


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

Ooof. A race turned on its head. Fantastic.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Talansky has it. Well done!! 

Contador big kudos for trying solo. Big mental advantage going into the TDF. Froome will bounce back though.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

If the TDF is anything like 3 weeks of that then it will be bloody EPIC!


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## 400bhp (15 Jun 2014)

He he, Talansky

Froome nowhere.........


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## Speicher (15 Jun 2014)

Talansky


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

unbef ckinglievable 
it's a long time since I've seen anything like that!!

another good showing from Adam Yates who gets 6th on GC


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## rliu (15 Jun 2014)

One of the most memorable stages in recent years, hard to remember the last time a rider who has led a week long stage race for the majority ended up outside the final GC top 10. Equally hard to remember a rider solo chasing for 25km in the mountains, what Bertie attempted was reminiscent of a Cancellara solo attack on the cobbles, just without the victorious ending.


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## MikeG (15 Jun 2014)

Could someone explain what happened, so those of us not following live have a clue........ Thanks.


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## raindog (15 Jun 2014)

MikeG said:


> Could someone explain what happened, so those of us not following live have a clue........ Thanks.


LOL - you jest, surely?


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

MikeG said:


> Could someone explain what happened, so those of us not following live have a clue........ Thanks.


Anyone know where to start?


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Here is a quick update for you.


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## MikeG (15 Jun 2014)

Thanks Pedro.


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## yello (15 Jun 2014)

Quite enjoyed that I did.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Jun 2014)

Froome was clearly affected far more by that crash that has was admitting - it seems that Sky knew what was likely to happen today, hence their getting two of their strongest riders in the break and ultimately going for the stage. Contrary to some here (and practically all of Alberto's personal fan club on Cyclingnews), I think Contador and Saxo really messed that up. Sure, it was exciting seeing him try to catch up on his own, but he and his team shouldn't have let him get in that position in the first place. Yesterday he had the race in the bag. It speaks of a certain arrogance and/or tactical failure in underestimating Talansky in particular. Talansky rode a spectacular race today, as did the young rider trio of Yates, Bardet and Kelderman.


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## dellzeqq (15 Jun 2014)

http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...ium-du-dauphine-libere&id=quMeFvEMC0o&yr=2014


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Froome was clearly affected far more by that crash that has was admitting - it seems that Sky knew what was likely to happen today, hence their getting two of their strongest riders in the break and ultimately going for the stage. *Contrary to some here (and practically all of Alberto's personal fan club on Cyclingnews), I think Contador and Saxo really messed that up*. Sure, it was exciting seeing him try to catch up on his own, but he and his team shouldn't have let him get in that position in the first place. Yesterday he had the race in the bag. It speaks of a certain arrogance and/or tactical failure in underestimating Talansky in particular. Talansky rode a spectacular race today, as did the young rider trio of Yates, Bardet and Kelderman.



No one said they didn't though. Just it was an epic but ultimately foolhardy chase. In fact surprise that the situation had developed was expressed.


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## rliu (15 Jun 2014)

Crackle said:


> No one said they didn't though. Just it was an epic but ultimately foolhardy chase. In fact surprise that the situation had developed was expressed.


It was certainly a mistake to lose the GC today but Tinkoff will be pleased with Contador's extremely strong form, especially seeing as they sent a very weak team to the race to support him, one where there was no Kreuziger, Majka, Roche or Rogers. If Contador can show the form he did this weekend in Tdf and Rogers and Majka maintain their Giro form then the Tour has just been blown wide open.


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Froome was clearly affected far more by that crash that has was admitting - it seems that Sky knew what was likely to happen today, hence their getting two of their strongest riders in the break and ultimately going for the stage. Contrary to some here (and practically all of Alberto's personal fan club on Cyclingnews), I think Contador and Saxo really messed that up. Sure, it was exciting seeing him try to catch up on his own, but he and his team shouldn't have let him get in that position in the first place. Yesterday he had the race in the bag. It speaks of a certain arrogance and/or tactical failure in underestimating Talansky in particular. Talansky rode a spectacular race today, as did the young rider trio of Yates, Bardet and Kelderman.


Contador said before the stage that winning the Dauphine was NOT important to him. The TDF is! With that in mind you could at very best consider Berti's 2nd place disappointing. More interesting though is just how different a rider he is to last year. As Yoda might say - "A breeze for Chris Froome this will be not". He has a MAJOR challenger in Alberto who is not only as strong as him, at least, in the mountains but also has a superior tactical instinct.

Last but not least, Contador had a pretty weak team at this race. The TDF will see his A team in full support. That will make a substantial difference.


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## DooDah (15 Jun 2014)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Contador said before the stage that winning the Dauphine was NOT important to him. The TDF is! With that in mind you could at very best consider Berti's 2nd place disappointing. More interesting though is just how different a rider he is to last year. As Yoda might say - "A breeze for Chris Froome this will be not". He has a MAJOR challenger in Alberto who is not only as strong as him, at least, in the mountains but also has a superior tactical instinct.
> 
> Last but not least, Contador had a pretty weak team at this race. The TDF will see his A team in full support. That will make a substantial difference.


Agreed.........and how is the steak in Yorkshire??


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## Pedrosanchezo (15 Jun 2014)

DooDah said:


> Agreed.........and how is the steak in Yorkshire??


Dono, i'm vegetarian.


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## RobNewcastle (15 Jun 2014)

Whatever you think about him, Contador's willingness to attack is impressive, the way he just goes for it is proper ballsy. He's clearly in impressive form and that makes for an exciting tour ahead.

However the difference between Froome before that crash and after is like night and day. He looked a completely different rider. He's mentioned it affected him but not offered it as an excuse and rightly so. I'm pretty convinced the Froome pre crash would've closed the gap yesterday or atleast got very close. He was obviously struggling a lot.

I guess all the questions will be answered soon anyway but Sky know now they have a full on battle on their hands. I think Contador probably also knows he's more than likely to face the Ventoux/Axe 3 Domains Froome come the mountains in the tour. Fascinating stuff.


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## suzeworld (15 Jun 2014)

Great stage, great entertainment.
I don't quite believe Bertie didn't 'want to win' that's politician-speak if y'ask me.
Why was he chasing the stage leaders once he'd shown Froome a clean pair of heels if he wasn't bothered?
That said, he gave Talansky a very sporting pat on the back on the podium.


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## The Couch (15 Jun 2014)

Hey @rich p ... just wanted to bring something up :


The Couch said:


> ...but then still I would put a Porte in top-form and as a team-leader in the top 10, but I can't see him beating either Froome (in an imaginary other team) or Nibali across a 3-week race. He hasn't shown a great result yet in those 3-week races and has to do so before I put him even ahead of people like JVDB and Mollema. (Considering that they would also be in top-form and avoiding falls)...





rich p said:


> I don't disagree with much of what you say @The Couch apart from the JVDB reference


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## rich p (15 Jun 2014)

The Couch said:


> Hey @rich p ... just wanted to bring something up :


Forza Belgium!


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## ayceejay (16 Jun 2014)

I would like to hear/read an official report on the state of Froome's health as the difference in his whole demeanor after the crash changed.


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Jun 2014)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Contador said before the stage that winning the Dauphine was NOT important to him. The TDF is!



Sure, that's what he said - we all know that. However, who knows if he was being sincere or bluffing or some mixture? In any case, however unexpected it was for him to be in yellow on the final day, if you were trying to tell me he was happy to let that lead and the overall victory go, you would be deluded. He's an exciting rider but tactically he got it wrong today.


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## The Couch (16 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Sure, that's what he said - we all know that. However, who knows if he was being sincere or bluffing or some mixture? In any case, however unexpected it was for him to be in yellow on the final day, if you were trying to tell me he was happy to let that lead and the overall victory go, you would be deluded. He's an exciting rider but tactically he got it wrong today.


He did get it wrong indeed, but he basically needed to pick his poison. 
He was all alone, Froome was not. He gambled that Froome (and his team) would not allow the others (Talansky first of all and later on Kelderman) to ride too far away, since he could defend his 2nd place (and still go for first place). He was wrong since Froom obviously didn't have the best of days.
Contador probably shouldn't have let Nibali and Kelderman ride away, but I believe others could have made the same error, by not wanting to jump on every possible attack. He jumped clear from the moment the 2nd last climb started, so in the situation he was at that moment, still a good move.

(I only saw the stage at the point when Froome did the little attack in the "peloton" and Contador responded, not much later Kelderman and Nibali rode away with Contador looking at Froome to close the gap, but I didn't see the race before that, so might have missed something important though)

I am betting Bertie was still pretty gutted not to win , but the feeling that he was - probably - strongest (and definitely stronger than the pre-Tour co-favourites Froome or Nibali) must still feel a pretty good feeling with him. Tinkoff does need to fix the strength of his Tour team though.


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## suzeworld (16 Jun 2014)

His error of judgement made it very exciting.
Has anyone seen any interviews / pronouncements from the Sky Camp since this race finished?

BTW, thought the filming was brilliant on yesterday's stage too.


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## jdtate101 (16 Jun 2014)

Any team with a hurt rider in contention will never give the full extent of that riders injury, or how it's effecting him, as it would be like a red rag to a bull for the other teams. Chris was always going to come out to the press and minimise how it was effecting him, saying he was ok and had an ok nights sleep, where as the reality was clear for everyone to see. He was obviously deeply effected by the crash as the difference in performance was very obvious. I do think SKY need to rip up their current tactics book as it's just not working with Contador on top form, they need to work out a plan to isolate him and break him. Not sure how they can do this as he's a rider who can handle changes of pace well. The tactic in the 2012/2013 TdF were right as SKY could ride others off the wheel, but this yr it just won't work. I'm sure there will be a lot of head scratching in SKY senior management over the next few weeks.


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## thom (16 Jun 2014)

Come the Tour, sky just need to know when to pick their battles. Front running for a couple of weeks will play into Bertie's hands on this showing. If they can get Contador to defend a small lead for a week while having two well placed riders then that can give them dangerous options. 

A bit of fakery scundered Contador yesterday. Sometimes it pays not to be in control - perhaps they should aim to take yellow only in the ITT...


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## montage (16 Jun 2014)

That crash will not be good for Froomes prep over the next few critical weeks, this is the bigger concern


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## Dogtrousers (16 Jun 2014)

I got in from a long drive from ooop North yesterday and was making myself a cup of coffee and rounding up the biscuits when my wife shouted me from the living room to the excitement unfolding on the telly. I watched the last 20 minutes of that stage with great excitement.

Supporting teams and individuals in sport is essentially an irrational process (it is for me at least). I'm surprised to find that I'm becoming something of a Dirty Bertie fan. "Go on, Conters old chap!" I was shouting.


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## Apollonius (16 Jun 2014)

I am liking the way young riders like Kelderman, Aru, Yates et al are really showing some promise. It was great seeing how much that win meant to Talansky yesterday.


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## robertob (16 Jun 2014)

Interesting stuff there yesterday... and I eat (happily) my own words as Froome seemed all human the last two days. But I would expect that he didn't go to the limit yesterday knowing at a certain point that the race was gone anyway. Will be interesting to see how he can recover - or potentially improve for the Tour. Contador looked strong during the Dauphine, yesterday another impressive display of form. Also the interesting question here: Any more improvement left? Now, the Tour really shapes a really exciting renewal. Bring it on!


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## Flying_Monkey (16 Jun 2014)

Looking at the race as a whole, there were several things to learn for all the leading contenders (and the others), particularly from the mistakes by leading riders and teams which show that no-one is the dominant favourite for the Tour. 

1. Sky have the strongest squad. However, they didn't want to concentrate on keeping the jersey through all the stages, but they were forced to do so - rather like being forced into leading out in a track sprint. That shows that for all a team's power and ability to control any particular stage, it does not mean that they can control the whole race. Sky's power riding can also lend itself to being hijacked by a single rider without at team as Contador showed. 

2. Tinkoff-Saxo had the strongest rider in Contador, but they also ended up unexpectedly in the lead and then didn't seem to know what to do about it on the final day, possibly because the team they deployed wasn't the strongest one and wasn't geared to defending a lead. They also (as per the discussion above) made a tactical mistake in letting a determined break containing several highly-placed riders get too far ahead and for all that Contador was the strongest, he couldn't pull them back on his own when many other teams (including Sky) were not prepared to help. 

3. Of course, Contador, Froome and Nibali are far from done, but we're entering a new era in pro-cycling right now with some fantastic riders who are going to be competing for the top stage races over the next 10 years: Aru, Arredondo, Bardet, the Henao cousins, Kelderman, the Quintanas, Sagan, the Yates Brothers - and there and more than a few others who are yet to show their best like Alaphilippe and a whole bunch of other Colombians, not to mention the Eritreans who are set to be the next Colombians. It's an exciting time. 

4. Finally, to add to the excitement, this race showed that even in the age of race radios and careful planning, opportunism and determination can still win stage races and turn what appear to be foregone conclusions on their heads. Attacking riding can win not just stages but whole races and that's a very good thing.


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## Shadow (16 Jun 2014)

Flying_Monkey said:


> They also (as per the discussion above) made a tactical mistake in letting a determined break containing several highly-placed riders get too far ahead and for all that Contador was the strongest, he couldn't pull them back on his own when many other teams (including Sky) were not prepared to help.


Hindsight, as we all know, is a wonderful thing. Not only was the break determined containing high placed riders, it is significant that there were strong riders in the break. Hesjedal, for one, put in a mahoosive performance yesterday. Classic Garmin, maybe?

However it is analysed, it made for a great stage and a great race.


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## 400bhp (16 Jun 2014)

Well, it showed up on the penultimate day when Hesjesal dragged Talansky up finishing ahead of Froome,
Trouble is, I reckon Hesjesal will be farked for the Tour after riding an good Giro.


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## ayceejay (16 Jun 2014)

Personally I find that 'win the first stage and spend the rest of the week being towed around', tactic boring and I am glad to see some intelligent riding that bodes well for the TdF.


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## screenman (25 Jun 2014)

I hate to see a druggie allowed back into the sport, seems a lot of support for one on here in places.


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## smutchin (25 Jun 2014)

screenman said:


> I hate to see a druggie allowed back into the sport, seems a lot of support for one on here in places.



What, Contador? I admit to feeling a kind of grudging admiration for him. He has panache and racing instinct. I don't know to what extent his diet enables that but I think he has the talent anyway, unlike certain riders who would have been nothing without artificial assistance.


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## screenman (25 Jun 2014)

I can never admire a cheat. Even more so when he is beating one of ours.


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2014)

Talansky won the race. I'm happy enough with that outcome.


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## KneesUp (26 Jun 2014)

screenman said:


> I can never admire a cheat. Even more so when he is beating one of ours.


There must be very few people you admire. I think we've all cheated at something. I know I used to cheat at Monopoly when I was a kid. It doesn't mean I do now.

I find it interesting that you find it even harder to admire someone who once cheated if they beat 'one of ours' - why does it matter who they are beating if it's the cheating you object to?


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