# Clipless pedals that don't require raising the saddle?



## lulubel (13 Dec 2012)

I've ordered some clipless pedals for my road bike - M324s, that are flat on one side, so I can ride with one foot on the flat side in town while I'm learning.

If I get on with them, I know I'll soon want SPDs on the MTB as well, but I've got a bit of a problem. I've been suffering from knee problems since I had it, and I realised the other day they're caused by having the saddle too low. I didn't _think_ it was too low, but I measured from pedal to saddle rails (identical saddles) on the road bike and the MTB the other day, and had to put the MTB saddle up 1cm. This has now put me right on the minimum insertion point for the 400mm seat post (250mm sticking out).

When my OH went clipless - using M324s - she had to raise the saddle. (She said about 2", but I suspect more like 2cm.) I can do that on the road bike with no problem, but not on the MTB.

Has anyone changed from flats to clipless and not had to raise the saddle? And what kind of pedals did you use?


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## Motozulu (13 Dec 2012)

I've always had clipless lulu as you know - when my LBS 'fitted' me to the bike (with clipless) he told me the rule of thumb is to get someone to hold you upright and with your mtb spd's clipped in adjust the saddle so with peddle at the bottom of the crank you just have a slight bend at the knee - not quite fully extended in otherwords, just slightly flexed.

HTH and I've had no knee issues as of yet.

PS sorry if that is like teaching yer Granny to suck eggs and may be stating the bleedin obvious but that's as far as my knowledge on the subject goes.


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## RecordAceFromNew (13 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> This has now put me right on the minimum insertion point for the 400mm seat post (250mm sticking out).


 
You sure about 150mm minimum insertion?


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## lulubel (13 Dec 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> You sure about 150mm minimum insertion?


 
Yes. I thought it looked like quite a lot on a 31.6mm seat post, which is why I specifically mentioned it


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## Ian H (13 Dec 2012)

That'll be a very safe minimum based on a heavy person.


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## lulubel (13 Dec 2012)

Ian H said:


> That'll be a very safe minimum based on a heavy person.


 
I did think they'd err on the side of caution, but I didn't think about how the weight of the rider would affect it. Since I'm a real lightweight, I guess I shouldn't worry about going 1-2cm past the minimum mark, then.


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## 02GF74 (13 Dec 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it - I am twice your weight and am about 1 cm above min insertion on my Gary Fisher that I have been riding since 1999; I was even higher, about 2 cm on another post - this was 350 mm long though I have replaced it with longer nice carbon fibre one.

Not sure I believe this having to raise saddle by 2 cm when changing to clipless pedals from flats - they should be more or less the same.

Anyway, if you have knee troubles, then you need to set up the pedals and cleats in the shoes correctly.
Firstly saddle height - put crank in line with seat tube, place *heel* when wearing boots onto the pedal and adjust saddle height until your leg is straight and rests gently on the pedal. You will find that when you are clipped in, your leg will have a slight bend in it.

Ensure you pedals have some float - that is they allow some side to side movement of your foot when clipped in, some models offer more than others, I cannot tell you whcih ones those are.

Then you need to see what position your foot is when pedalling and fit the cleat so when clippeed in, you foot is in the same position.

The cleat is fitted so that the axle is below the ball of the foot.


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## Cubist (13 Dec 2012)

I reckon you'd have another 30 or 40mm to play with, especially given you petite build. 

It ain't so much the pedal as the shoes. I need to raise the saddle if I wear my chunky soled Tahos, but not the disco slipper Carbon Experts. With pop up caged pedals like the M545 I reckon they'd sit even higher.

However, those flat one side pedals may stick out higher above the axle than a double sided mech. The ones you have ordered may be thicker in profile than say an XT trail pedal. 

Low profile pedals which would also be kinder to your dodgy knee would be a Crank Bros Eggbeater. They are slim-axled, and the sole of your shoe will be in direct contact. They have huge amounts of float, and weigh half of a Shimano SPD.


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## HovR (13 Dec 2012)

02GF74 said:


> Not sure I believe this having to raise saddle by 2 cm when changing to clipless pedals from flats - they should be more or less the same.


 
Maybe it is dependant on your peda/shoe combination, however I had to raise the saddle on my road bike by about that much after going clipless. Yet to go clipless on the mountain bike, although I want to when funds allow.


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## GrasB (14 Dec 2012)

I think it's more about where you cleat positions your foot on the pedal to where you normally have your foot of flat pedals.


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## lulubel (14 Dec 2012)

02GF74 said:


> I wouldn't worry about it - I am twice your weight and am about 1 cm above min insertion on my Gary Fisher that I have been riding since 1999; I was even higher, about 2 cm on another post - this was 350 mm long though I have replaced it with longer nice carbon fibre one.


 


Cubist said:


> I reckon you'd have another 30 or 40mm to play with, especially given you petite build.


 
Thanks, guys. That was what I was hoping to hear. Compared to the (27.2) seat post I had on the old MTB, this one seems to have the minimum point set quite high.

Although I have to say I'm a little nervous about going clipless on the MTB after today's ride. I had an unplanned dismount that I really wasn't prepared for, and the bike and I would have hit the deck if I'd been clipped in. As it was, I managed to land on my feet beside the bike - and there's a scuff of mud from my shoe on the top tube to show how I got there - and the bike stayed on its wheels!



User said:


> Are you sure that your saddle wasn't simply set to low to start with?


 
Yes, it was too low. That was my point. I haven't gone clipless on the MTB yet, but I have raised the saddle a total of about 3cm from where I had it to start with.

And no new knee pain on today's ride, which was a great relief, just some residual stuff that my body has to work out. I felt _very_ high up, though


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## defy-one (14 Dec 2012)

i have the same pedals - but it's too wet to fit them today - will let you know how much i have to adjust the saddle by. i don't think it's the pedals, but the chunky spd shoes i will be wearing


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## lulubel (14 Dec 2012)

defy-one said:


> i have the same pedals - but it's too wet to fit them today - will let you know how much i have to adjust the saddle by. i don't think it's the pedals, but the chunky spd shoes i will be wearing


 
Thanks. I'm currently riding in support running shoes, which are certainly not minimalist in the sole department, so I might not have to change much.


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