# Can a folding bike climb?



## Kell (21 Nov 2021)

GCN sticks hill climb specialist on a Brompton up Cheddar Gorge.

they don’t say, but it looks like a single speed. So he’s at an immediate disadvantage.

Still impressive though.


View: https://youtu.be/CCAwg9OMa84


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## Sharky (21 Nov 2021)

Too lazy to watch the video right now, but my comments ...

When out of the saddle, I put my weight well over the front wheel - don't think you can achieve the same position on the folder.
If sitting down and in an appropriate gear, the folder shouldn't be that different.


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## berlinonaut (21 Nov 2021)

Kell said:


> they don’t say, but it looks like a single speed.


It is a 2-speed. So it is a bit of a trashy comparison: He lacks shorter gears, he lacks in-between gears and he spins out at the end of the race in the highest gear. This has absolutely nothing to do with riding a folding bike but with choosing a folder with an unnecessarily limited gear range for the challenge. Basically they cement the false prejucides towards folding bikes in this video.
What they also don't say (but you can derivate it): 
• In comparison to his own hill racer the Brompton has about 5+kg of weight penalty
• it has a way more limited gearing top as well as bottom (but we don't know how much)
• on the 2-speed Brompton which is completely new to him he does ride the hill just 2mins slower than on his own hill racer

So not too bad I'd say - though the race and the comparison is misleading and of no use at all. It is just a spectacle for creating clicks, not for any serious knowledge gain.


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## a.twiddler (21 Nov 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> It is a 2-speed. So it is a bit of a trashy comparison: He lacks shorter gears, he lacks in-between gears and he spins out at the end of the race in the highest gear. This has absolutely nothing to do with riding a folding bike but with choosing a folder with an unnecessarily limited gear range for the challenge. Basically they cement the false prejucides towards folding bikes in this video.
> What they also don't say (but you can derivate it):
> • In comparison to his own hill racer the Brompton has about 5+kg of weight penalty
> • it has a way more limited gearing top as well as bottom (but we don't know how much)
> ...


Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars, and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either. I don't have a Brompton but I bought a budget folder a few years ago and adapted it with lower gearing to cope with route to work. I changed it from a 6 speed to a 7 speed with Megarange bottom sprocket. It's mostly fairly level, but has some short sharp climbs either side of the river which I had to cross in both directions.

You just need to adapt your technique. The rear triangle is the strongest part of the bike and so as long as you can discipline yourself to remaining in the saddle and using your lower body to propel yourself up the hilly bits it will transmit the power fine. You need to pedal smoothly even if you're not necessarily a spinner.
By all means lean forward over the bars to keep some weight over the front wheel on the steepest bits but until you reach a gradient that makes steering difficult, I find my folder climbs OK. If you've got the gears, you can climb almost anything on almost anything. Going downhill fast on those small wheels -now that's another matter!

This unexpectedly benefited me a few years later when I got into riding recumbents. The same old predjudice -folders can't climb, recumbents can't climb, (insert name here) can't climb! My original recumbent couldn't be more different from my folder. The folder perched you waay above the wheels, you might get a nose bleed just thinking about it, and the wheelbase looked ridiculously short, though that was just an illusion.
My LWB recumbent looks like it ate my folder for breakfast without noticing. Loong wheelbase, low seat, yet to get up hills here we are again. Can't use your body weight on the pedals, can't pull up on the bars. Just use your legs and the appropriate gearing. Somehow, it just does it.

When I do get out on the folder, it's always a pleasant surprise how nice, if slightly strange, it is to ride. It's not fast, being a bit low geared, but just climbs everything you put in front of it with no fuss.


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## byegad (21 Nov 2021)

My Dahon Speed-Pro, gearing 20-114" IIRC, quite happily tackled hills in the Weardale and Teesdale area without any real issues. You needed to be careful to keep some weight on the handlebars on the steeper, 1in6 a steeper, bits but it was very nearly as good as my similarly geared Thorn Club Tour.


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## berlinonaut (21 Nov 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars,


Why? I would not agree with that statement. 


a.twiddler said:


> and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either.


Why? I would not agree with that statement.



a.twiddler said:


> I don't have a Brompton but I bought a budget folder


Maybe this is the bit that's misleading you? Cheap folders often have a flimsy stem and some a weird geometry. With the Brompton I do have absolutely no issue with pulling on the bars, with standing on the pedals and other tings. If you out *massive* power onto the cranks you'll recognize that on the Brompton the main frame starts to work at the main frame hinge (as with many forders that do have a hinged main frame). This is however not a generic folder problem but one caused by the construction of some folders (same as with the flimsy stem on other folders). You should have in mind that i.e. these are folding bikes, too:





































The Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (and it's siblings), the Airnimal Chameleon and Joey and the Berds Folder are just four examples of folders that ride like a "normal" bike. and they are fast, too. There are many many more like that. A folder does neither have to have small wheels nor has it to have a strange geometry nor has it to be slow or unstable.


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## rogerzilla (21 Nov 2021)

I've always found Bromptons to climb pretty well. Bar ends help a lot (on an S type). I've never had one with true low gears; I've been up Chinnor Hill a few times with a bottom gear of 52", and it was no worse than spinning up it on a touring bike.


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## a.twiddler (21 Nov 2021)

A folder is, by definition, a bike with a hinge in it. I only refer to my own experience with my particular folder and a Dahon which I owned side by side with it for a while. Perhaps a Dahon also counts as a "budget folder" if you have a Brompton? In fact the stem arrangement on my particular bike felt much more confidence inspiring than the one on the Dahon which on paper was the "better" bike. I was quite conflicted at one time -which one should I keep? 

They were both nice bikes. Both aluminium framed, 20" wheels, the Dahon with a slightly more compact fold, this Viking with a nicer ride. The point I was trying to make is that a folder should be treated with a little more mechanical sympathy, perhaps, than a non folder. Compared with my other bikes, this one weighs virtually nothing, and I treat it with respect. I still get up the hills, and my "non Brompton" hasn't given any trouble to date.

I should also point out that the guy in the video was riding a Brompton, not a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (or it's siblings), an Airnimal Chameleon or Joey or the Berds Folder. The majority of folding bikes are not represented by any of these bikes, though you only have to mention "folder" and the owners of Bromptons, particularly, fill these pages with their replies. It is good to have replies, but let me just put in a word for the apparently disparaged owners of "budget folders" whose experiences are just as valid as anyone else's. Yes! They can climb!


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## berlinonaut (21 Nov 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> A folder is, by definition, a bike with a hinge in it.


Jup. But not necessarily with a hinge in the main/top tube. Plus "folder" is a class of bikes which varies massively regarding their properties. Just because something is true for a Brompton it is not necessarily a property of all folding bikes and the same goes for a Dahon, a Birdy, a Bike Friday and any other folding bike.


a.twiddler said:


> I should also point out that the guy in the video was riding a Brompton, not a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (or it's siblings), an Airnimal Chameleon or Joey or the Berds Folder.


That is totally true and exactly that is the reason why the video is misleading at best. It does not even represent all Bromptons (just the 2-speed), let alone all folders. So what they found out was not a generic "folding bikes behave like this and that".


a.twiddler said:


> you only have to mention "folder" and the owners of Bromptons, particularly, fill these pages with their replies. It is good to have replies, but let me just put in a word for the apparently disparaged owners of "budget folders" whose experiences are just as valid as anyone else's.


I do own Bromptons but also a couple of other folding bikes, including a Bike Friday, an Airnimal Joey and a Bernds beyond them and even three folding recumbents (one of which is a Brompton). All of them are different beasts with different up- and downsides, including the Brompton. So I'd guess you hear whatever you want to hear... No wonder that some people are talking about Bromptons in a thread that starts with a video, comparing a Brompton to a race bike...


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## Blue Hills (21 Nov 2021)

byegad said:


> My Dahon Speed-Pro, gearing 20-114" IIRC, quite happily tackled hills in the Weardale and Teesdale area without any real issues. You needed to be careful to keep some weight on the handlebars on the steeper, 1in6 a steeper, bits but it was very nearly as good as my similarly geared Thorn Club Tour.


which version is that? How many speeds?
Mine is the 3x7 - pic below.
I've also cycled the 5 speed brommie to that place.
Both no problems at all.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Nov 2021)

On rides with my local ctc I will often out climb others. On my 3 speed Brompton against geared road bikes. I think a lot of them change into an easy gear whilst on my Brompton I stand up and get on with it. Standing up and heaving on the bars from side to side us very much a part of Brompton climbing technique


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## roley poley (21 Nov 2021)

any bike will"climb" you just need to lower the gearing .. as I have done with an extra smaller chain wheel bolted in the mix


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## a.twiddler (21 Nov 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> Jup. But not necessarily with a hinge in the main/top tube. Plus "folder" is a class of bikes which varies massively regarding their properties. Just because something is true for a Brompton it is not necessarily a property of all folding bikes and the same goes for a Dahon, a Birdy, a Bike Friday and any other folding bike.
> 
> That is totally true and exactly that is the reason why the video is misleading at best. It does not even represent all Bromptons (just the 2-speed), let alone all folders. So what they found out was not a generic "folding bikes behave like this and that".
> 
> I do own Bromptons but also a couple of other folding bikes, including a Bike Friday, an Airnimal Joey and a Bernds beyond them and even three folding recumbents (one of which is a Brompton). All of them are different beasts with different up- and downsides, including the Brompton. So I'd guess you hear whatever you want to hear... No wonder that some people are talking about Bromptons in a thread that starts with a video, comparing a Brompton to a race bike...


Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders.


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## berlinonaut (21 Nov 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders.


From what I read in your first post you seemed to be the opposite opinion: That all folders would be equal.


a.twiddler said:


> Can a folder climb? of course it can. You have to bear in mind that you can't pull up on the bars, and it doesn't respond well to standing on the pedals and heaving on the bars either.


I told you that my experience is different, that not all folders are equal and asked you how you come to your statement. I got no answer but you immediately kind of freaked out, feeling disrespected for owning a cheap folder. No idea how you got onto that route. I would still be interested what made you make your first statement as my experience is still different and now, that you agree that not all folders are equal I am wondering even more about your generalization about how folders would behave.


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## a.twiddler (21 Nov 2021)

As i said earlier," Well, I'm glad we can both agree that there are folders, and there are folders." . You have expressed your opinion, which I don't necessarily disagree with, as I haven't had the opportunity to ride any of the bikes you mention, and take your word for it. I have expressed my opinion based on my experience, and you have disagreed with that. That's your prerogative. End of. 

Looking at your previous I post see that you appear to be being deliberately provocative -"freaked out", "disrespected for owning a cheap folder" but I will disregard that. No more, please.


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## 12boy (21 Nov 2021)

I can stand on the pedals with my Brompty and I pull on the bars as well. When grinding up a grade l also like to pull up as push down which works pretty well with SPDs.


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## a.twiddler (22 Nov 2021)

12boy said:


> I can stand on the pedals with my Brompty and I pull on the bars as well. When grinding up a grade l also like to pull up as push down which works pretty well with SPDs.


That'll teach me to generalise!


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## IanSmithCSE (22 Nov 2021)

Good morning,

For me GCN has changed quite a lot, if you go back a few years it came across as light hearted but by and large on the riders side. There were comparisons of cheap and expensive bikes and the conclusions were close to "the expensive bike is better, but by a lot less than you might expect"

Nowadays things seem to be set up to favour the opposite conclusion, that the rider needs to spend some money, possibly a lot.

It also suffers that in many ways it has become like the BBC Top Gear program in the Clarkson/May/Hammond era, it started out with the intent to be fun, but run out of fun ideas and became all about the presenters doing things that were fun for them but were of no interest to many viewers.

GCN has also become overloaded with advertising, not just the features that are clearly marked as AD, but the actual ads at the start and during the non advert articles. Sadly but the content, which seems to be padding if it is not an advert, is not for anymore me and hasn't been for a quite while. 

I do look occasionally and Dear Mr Zwift, you are doing so much advertising that you are becoming annoying, we have all heard of you by now.

Bye

Ian


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## Richard Fairhurst (22 Nov 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> I should also point out that the guy in the video was riding a Brompton, not a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket (or it's siblings), an Airnimal Chameleon or Joey or the Berds Folder. The majority of folding bikes are not represented by any of these bikes, though you only have to mention "folder" and the owners of Bromptons, particularly, fill these pages with their replies. It is good to have replies, but let me just put in a word for the apparently disparaged owners of "budget folders" whose experiences are just as valid as anyone else's. Yes! They can climb!



They can! But the difference between a premium folder and a budget one is night and day. I moved from a cheap unbranded folder to a Bike Friday. The unbranded one did its job, but I wouldn't choose to ride it unless portability was essential. The Bike Friday is a fantastic go-anywhere bike which I'll often choose even if I don't need to fold it. 

Generally I subscribe to the view that "the best bike is the one you own", but I honestly believe most people don't realise how good the best folders are. (I'd say the same about Airnimals: Mrs F has a Chameleon and it's a beauty of a bike. Apart from the weird wheel size...)


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## rogerzilla (22 Nov 2021)

I watched as much of the video as I could bear. It looks as if the Brompton was mostly disadvantaged by the flat/downhill bits due to its single speed. Uphill, it wouldn't matter so much as long as the hillclimb specialist could supply enough torque, which he obviously can. Remember that many hillclimbs are won on fixies.

He'd have had an easier time with bar ends and a very firm rear suspension block like the JK one. An out-of-the-box M-type with flat pedals and bouncy rear block would struggle.


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## byegad (22 Nov 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> which version is that? How many speeds?
> Mine is the 3x7 - pic below.
> I've also cycled the 5 speed brommie to that place.
> Both no problems at all.
> ...


Mine was/is 3 x 8 and perfectly capable of climbing out of the saddle, although I'm not, these days. As I had to give up 2 wheels in 2008 my wife rode it for a while and loved how easy it was to ride, compared to her Dawes Discovery.
These days it sits at the back of the garage. I should get round to selling it really.


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## Dogtrousers (22 Nov 2021)

I've never ridden my B up anything really steep. Probably only 8% or 10% is the max I've gone up. I'm not sure, maybe steeper short stretches. I find it does get rather flexy when I stand on the pedals. I have M handlebars if that's at all relevant. Also it doesn't quite have the low gears that my grown-up bike has. I'm happy to get off and push.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2021)

Cheddar averages around 4-5% with just one short steep bit at bottom around 16%. So it's well within what you've done so far and not in the super steep category.


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## berlinonaut (22 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> It looks as if the Brompton was mostly disadvantaged by the flat/downhill bits due to its single speed.


It wasn't a single speed but a two speed.



rogerzilla said:


> He'd have had an easier time with bar ends and a very firm rear suspension block like the JK one. An out-of-the-box M-type with flat pedals and bouncy rear block would struggle.


I am not sure to which suspension block you relate. The early ones up do 2007 were bouncy (but could easily be tweaked). From 2008 until 2016 there were the coned ones where you could choose between normal and hard. For most grown up male European riders "hard" was the better choice. Since 2017 there is just one suspension block avail. from factory (apart from special ones on the CHPT3, the B75 and now the P-Line) which is in between the former normal and hard ones. With these I've nothing to complain about. The JK one is still harder.


Dogtrousers said:


> I've never ridden my B up anything really steep. Probably only 8% or 10% is the max I've gone up. I'm not sure, maybe steeper short stretches. I find it does get rather flexy when I stand on the pedals. I have M handlebars if that's at all relevant. Also it doesn't quite have the low gears that my grown-up bike has. I'm happy to get off and push.


The classic M handle bars are clearly less stiff than S (and the traditional P ones are even worse). The M/H bars since 2017 are way better. Still a tad less stiff than S bars but totally acceptable in my eyes. Also, it probably makes a difference if you do a race up a hill and then you are done or if you climb a hill during a tour. With the first option you can use all your power for a short distance, thus you may live with getting out of the saddle and spending all you can give. With the latter you have to sorrowfully deal with your power, so low gears and also low speed are the better way to go and getting off and push is totally valid.

What would be interesting was to see, how things would develop between the two if the race was not a short distance one (the time needed was according to the video 10 mins, so the distance was not very far) but rather something like the Stelvio Climb or the Sella Ronda. Much longer distance with a variety of different gradients - and not possible to do this in continuous full power-mode out of the saddle.


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## rogerzilla (22 Nov 2021)

It's not so much the stiffness of the bars I'm thinking of: it's the ease of riding out of the saddle with bar ends (bar ends don't really work with M bars). The sideways hand grip is much better when standing.

I didn't find the Brompton "firm" block to be hard enough, even with a jubilee clip around it. The JK one works well for me, although it is so rigid that the rear triangle occasionally, momentarily, separates from the frame when riding over the wrong type of bump, typically tree roots under cyclepaths. I don't use a rear frame clip though, and I suspect most people now do.


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## T4tomo (22 Nov 2021)

On another cycle forum back in the day, there was a Swains lane hill climb thread (following a HC event up there) . basically post your time and take the same / wave your willy. I and others had a crack on Bromptons and the times weren't too bad. you do get a bit of unwanted bounce from the rear sussy block


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## nickyboy (22 Nov 2021)

Uphill I guess no big problem. 50mph downhills on a Brompton would be a different matter all together


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## berlinonaut (22 Nov 2021)

nickyboy said:


> Uphill I guess no big problem. 50mph downhills on a Brompton would be a different matter all together


Done this more than once. Survived and one time even got a T-shirt.  No issues at all.


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## DRM (22 Nov 2021)

Anything with Andy Feather pedalling it will fly uphill, that’s all there is to it


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## Ridgeway (22 Nov 2021)

We've just bought a factory that's 50km from Monti Zoncolan, i'll need to be there every few months or so... my Brompton often travels with me in the back of the car, guess what's on my 2022 challenge list my legs and back are already complaining

Can't see me making it up but i'll give it my best shot the descent should be fun on 16" Kojaks


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## rogerzilla (22 Nov 2021)

50mph? Me too! Coombe Hill near High Wycombe.


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## u_i (22 Nov 2021)

Ridgeway said:


> We've just bought a factory that's 50km from Monti Zoncolan, i'll need to be there every few months or so... my Brompton often travels with me in the back of the car, guess what's on my 2022 challenge list my legs and back are already complaining
> 
> Can't see me making it up but i'll give it my best shot the descent should be fun on 16" Kojaks



At my 1 month/year work location, I start at 1.37m of gear development to exit to the street on my Brompton and then halfway I need to switch to 1.17m. To be honest, on side streets there (continental rift) such gear requirements are relatively common. Obviously, I needed to change the gearing, compared to stock, to cope with the conditions.


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## TheDoctor (22 Nov 2021)

I'm not posting the photo of my Brommie up Mont Ventoux again


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## tds101 (22 Nov 2021)

I'll wager that if that was a 6 speed Brommie the outcome would have been a bit better.


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## Jon George (23 Nov 2021)

I know that Suffolk is generally considered flat, but shortly after getting my T 2-speed, I had a go at the two steepest roads I know nearby (Devonshire Road in Ipswich - handrails for pedestrians - and Bent Hill in Felixstowe - steps for pedestrians) as an experiment and managed both at, what I thought, was quite a good speed.  
On the flat, I have also overtaken other riders on their road bikes. Which has surprised them.
And, as I have recently mentioned elsewhere on this forum recently, I am 63. 
It's a fun bike to ride!


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## steveindenmark (23 Nov 2021)

Yes my Brompton can climb. But not in the same class as any of my other bikes. But that is possibly because my mindset is different when I get on the Brompton. I always ride it at a leisurely pace because it is my leisure bike. I think I will take it to a couple of hills and give it a thrash.


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## Kell (23 Nov 2021)

My Brompton can climb.

I, on the other hand can not.

Of course it wasn’t a fair comparison to stick him on a (what I thought was a one speed) bike with far fewer gears.

We all have a cadence that’s comfortable, and even on a six speed where the difference between gears is something like 15-18rpm, it’s always going to be hard.

Plus, without any form of higher gear then he was clearly going to struggle when it got flatter.

I don’t think it’s true to say it’s pointless. They did, after all, point out that he was significantly quicker on the Brompton than on a very cheap road bike.

But it certainly wasn’t a fair test.

Unfortunately, I tend to agree that a few years ago GCN was a great channel, since it’s moved to a PPV channel any ‘free’ content is nowhere near as good as it was. And I’m not THAT much into them that I’d pay to watch them so can’t compare what it’s like.


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## Pale Rider (24 Nov 2021)

Kell said:


> My Brompton can climb.
> 
> I, on the other hand can not.
> 
> ...



There's a new hour long vid on Brompton on GCN+.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Nov 2021)

Kell said:


> Unfortunately, I tend to agree that a few years ago GCN was a great channel, since it’s moved to a PPV channel any ‘free’ content is nowhere near as good as it was. And I’m not THAT much into them that I’d pay to watch them so can’t compare what it’s like.





Pale Rider said:


> There's a new hour long vid on Brompton on GCN+.


I pay for GCN+ for the racing coverage. The magazine type films (like the Brompton documentary) are generally OK, mildly diverting, but not in themselves worth paying for.

I do think the quality of the free GCN stuff on youtube (racing news apart) is rather patchy. Scripted jokes, a clunky formula, struggling to come up with new ideas for "something vs something else". There is the occasional genuinely interesting or funny one. I'm tempted to say it was better a few years ago but if I went back and watched some old ones I'd probably find it wasn't.

The hour long Brompton documentary was interesting, but if you asked me for an interesting fact that I learned from it (I watched it a couple of weeks ago) I'd be hard pressed to answer. The "can a Brompton climb" one was kind of typical. They used a 2 speed because that's what they had to hand, which is fair enough. But they could at least have talked a bit about the fact that other gearing options exist, especially as the gearing was the critical factor (not bike weight or geometry or wheel size or anything like that). Instead they concentrated on the "ha ha Ollie got dropped" aspect, which is wearing a bit thin.


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## Kell (24 Nov 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I pay for GCN+ for the racing coverage. The magazine type films (like the Brompton documentary) are generally OK, mildly diverting, but not in themselves worth paying for.
> 
> I do think the quality of the free GCN stuff on youtube (racing news apart) is rather patchy. Scripted jokes, a clunky formula, struggling to come up with new ideas for "something vs something else". There is the occasional genuinely interesting or funny one. I'm tempted to say it was better a few years ago but if I went back and watched some old ones I'd probably find it wasn't.
> 
> The hour long Brompton documentary was interesting, but if you asked me for an interesting fact that I learned from it (I watched it a couple of weeks ago) I'd be hard pressed to answer. The "can a Brompton climb" one was kind of typical. They used a 2 speed because that's what they had to hand, which is fair enough. But they could at least have talked a bit about the fact that other gearing options exist, especially as the gearing was the critical factor (not bike weight or geometry or wheel size or anything like that). Instead they concentrated on the "ha ha Ollie got dropped" aspect, which is wearing a bit thin.



It would be interesting to see why they felt like the very cheap road bike was slower than the 2-speed Brompton though. Presumably that had a better spread of gears, so then things like weight and rider position must have come into it then...


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## Dogtrousers (24 Nov 2021)

Kell said:


> It would be interesting to see why they felt like the very cheap road bike was slower than the 2-speed Brompton though. Presumably that had a better spread of gears, so then things like weight and rider position must have come into it then...


I think they had a top of the range road bike up against the Brompton didn't they?

Just that they had a Andrew Feather powering the B and Oliver Wossname powering the fancy road bike.


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## Kell (24 Nov 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think they had a top of the range road bike up against the Brompton didn't they?
> 
> Just that they had a Andrew Feather powering the B and Oliver Wossname powering the fancy road bike.


Sorry - crossed wires.

In the Brompton test, they mentioned that last time they put Andrew Feather on something to go up Cheddar Gorge, it was the cheapest road bike they could find on Amazon. In the summation of the Brompton one, they say he (Andrew) was slower on the cheapo road bike than on the two-speed Brompton.

ETA: Ollie mentions it here (it should start playing at the right timecode, but if not it's about 6:00 minutes): 

 
View: https://youtu.be/CCAwg9OMa84?t=358


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Nov 2021)

The hour long Brompton documentary is of me riding on up Cheddar Gorge with no cuts in footage.


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## Kell (24 Nov 2021)

And this was him on the Eurobike:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoFWEvvi9VM


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## DRM (24 Nov 2021)

Kell said:


> It would be interesting to see why they felt like the very cheap road bike was slower than the 2-speed Brompton though. Presumably that had a better spread of gears, so then things like weight and rider position must have come into it then...


Because it was a hideous BSO from Amazon, that was far, far worse than a Halfords Apollo


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## Kell (24 Nov 2021)

DRM said:


> Because it was a hideous BSO from Amazon, that was far, far worse than a Halfords Apollo



Oh I know it was sh*t.

but I’d like to know what, specifically, caused it to be that much slower.

I think they said it weighed almost three times as much as his hill climb bike at 15+ kg.

The Brompton was lighter than the cheap bike, but only had two gears.

But was it just the weight? Or did it have really bad hubs and a sticky bottom bracket? Was all the weight in the wheels? Was there tonnes of friction through the gears? 

Probably all of the above.


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## mitchibob (10 Jan 2022)

Hard Knott Pass is doable on Brompton, in February. I can confirm though... feet went down. Nearly binned it on the slippery cattle-grid before I even hit the proper steep bits. First feet down was to take off waterproof to avoid boil in bag. 2nd, just pain from one shoe slightly over-tightened. Pretty sure there was third stop, and that was just mixture of pain, rear wheel slipping on stream that was road for a while, oh, a car is coming down, that's an excuse for a breather so I can zig-zag the rest of it.

I reckon one advantage to Brompton in this situation is that it's easier to get going again if you have to stop on that kind of gradient ;-)

While I'm sure I'll try it again one day, really don't think it'll be any easier on a road bike. But I reckon me on a lightweight road bike, and Andrew Feather on a Brompton, he'd still get up in about a 3rd of the time I would, and not be quite as ruined.

Plus, forearms really get a workout on the brakes coming down the other side!

Still worth it!


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## ExBrit (10 Jan 2022)

mitchibob said:


> Hard Knott Pass is doable on Brompton, in February. I can confirm though... feet went down. Nearly binned it on the slippery cattle-grid before I even hit the proper steep bits. First feet down was to take off waterproof to avoid boil in bag. 2nd, just pain from one shoe slightly over-tightened. Pretty sure there was third stop, and that was just mixture of pain, rear wheel slipping on stream that was road for a while, oh, a car is coming down, that's an excuse for a breather so I can zig-zag the rest of it.
> 
> I reckon one advantage to Brompton in this situation is that it's easier to get going again if you have to stop on that kind of gradient ;-)
> 
> ...



I fixed the problem for you  Have a great ride.


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## TheDoctor (10 Jan 2022)

nickyboy said:


> Uphill I guess no big problem. 50mph downhills on a Brompton would be a different matter all together


It's doable. Coming off the Col de Mort d'Imbert into Manosque I was doing about 55 mph. If I ever get the Brommie to the top of Ventoux or something similar, I reckon 60 + mph could be on the cards  😲

Hmmm. Ditchling...


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## mitchibob (11 Jan 2022)

TheDoctor said:


> Hmmm. Ditchling...


I think I got close to 70kph on Coldean descent (coming off Ditchling), but way too scared to wave at the speed camera!


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## mitchibob (11 Jan 2022)

ExBrit said:


> I fixed the problem for you  Have a great ride.
> View attachment 625902


Except it was Winter!


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## 2bikes4adventure (29 Jan 2022)

Revisiting GCN’s Folding Bike Challenge


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## a.twiddler (30 Jan 2022)

An interesting video, paricularly the segment on Brompton frame flex. The statement at the end, "For most of us it's not how fast we climb, or who arrives first but if we get to the top without having to dismount and push the bike" rang true for me. In the real world, for this old git at least, whatever I happen to be riding, that is the important thing. When I said further up thread in response to the OP that of course folders can climb, this is what I had in mind, though other posters were focused on being able to beat/keep up with a dedicated lightweight DF bike set up for climbing. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2022)

Bikes don’t climb, the rider does. Bikes descend…


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