# Vintage Falcon road bikes



## southcoast (11 Feb 2018)

Lets see those vintage Falcon road bikes. Here is mine to start the thread


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## Cycleops (11 Feb 2018)

Very nice example and just my size too!


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## midlife (11 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> Lets see those vintage Falcon road bikes. Here is mine to start the thread



298 Super Pro if memory serves 

Here's my pink Falcon San Remo


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## Cycleops (11 Feb 2018)

midlife said:


> Here's my pink Falcon San Remo
> 
> View attachment 395435


Wasn’t there also some San Remo rims or tubs?


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## midlife (11 Feb 2018)

Ron Kit toyed with the name Milan-San Remo to make "Milremo" .IIRC and also used the San Remo name for stuff....way back when lol .


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## southcoast (12 Feb 2018)

Yes 1979 Super Pro. That’s a very nice San Remo Equipe frame, what year is that?
I wonder how many San Remo and Super pro bikes they sold back it the day?


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## Alan O (12 Feb 2018)

Here's my old Ernie Clements Falcon, back in 1980...


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## midlife (12 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> Yes 1979 Super Pro. That’s a very nice San Remo Equipe frame, what year is that?
> I wonder how many San Remo and Super pro bikes they sold back it the day?



The San Remo will be circa 1975, and yep it's the Equipe, you obviously know your Falcon's 

I acquired it via Billy Holmes who was our Falcon rep back then, real nice bloke. I didn't fancy the team blu so it was taken off the production line and sent somewhere for painting, never found out where. The pink should be the same as the pink decal Falcon used with Giro D'italia on it. The decals on my Falcon are completely wrong.

The Falcon was my road bike, in the pic you can see my TT bike, a Kevin Sayles Bob Jackson.

As a company Falcon seemed somewhat amateurish lol .We were a Raleigh 5 star dealer but sold other marques such as Falcon, Dawes, Puch, Holdsworth etc.

When you unboxed a Falcon you were never sure what would be revealed lol and their frame numbers were a total mystery!

How many did they sell, not many at all would be my guess. Their big seller at my era would have been lower down the price range, Black Diamond etc.

Here's me on my Falcon in anger at the Spout Hill climb .





Any more pics of yours

Cheers

Shaun


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## southcoast (13 Feb 2018)

midlife said:


> The San Remo will be circa 1975, and yep it's the Equipe, you obviously know your Falcon's
> 
> I acquired it via Billy Holmes who was our Falcon rep back then, real nice bloke. I didn't fancy the team blu so it was taken off the production line and sent somewhere for painting, never found out where. The pink should be the same as the pink decal Falcon used with Giro D'italia on it. The decals on my Falcon are completely wrong.
> 
> ...




I think your right about not many high end Falcon bikes being made. Bitd I understand that dealers would get a Super Pro in stock, but would often be unable to get another. 
High end Falcon bikes seem even harder to find now. I have only seen one San Remo Equipe for sale in recent years. That was
a black and white bike from the sixties, it was a small frame though. Never seen another Super Pro for sale, although Pro models
seem to turn up occasionally.
I’ll see what pictures I have, maybe take a couple more at the weekend. Do you have any other pictures of the San Remo built up?


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## midlife (16 Feb 2018)

True about the higher end Falcon models, they were always in short supply. When Andy Thompson (frame builder fame) went in to wind the operation down I believe it was in a bit of a state!

There are few photos of me or my bikes, it's just not something we did. Twas expensive and usually reserved for holidays. Hull Thursday had its own "photographer" who did it as a hobby and had his own darkroom which is where my photo came from.

I sort of gave up cycling when I had to think about job, career etc and my bikes were dismantled and stored in my garage in Hull circa 1982, they surfaced again about 2002 when I settled here in Cumbria. Not everything re-surfaced 

I have been tinkering ever since, if I want to go for a spin I have my alu-carbon Basso


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## PHL67 (16 Feb 2018)

I have an ec72 in bits waiting for paint shop. Came with Campagnolo shifter and rear derailleur.

Will post some pictures of frame once I can get to shed.

Hobbled to shed and managed to get picture.


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## southcoast (18 Feb 2018)

View attachment 396431


midlife said:


> The San Remo will be circa 1975, and yep it's the Equipe, you obviously know your Falcon's
> 
> I acquired it via Billy Holmes who was our Falcon rep back then, real nice bloke. I didn't fancy the team blu so it was taken off the production line and sent somewhere for painting, never found out where. The pink should be the same as the pink decal Falcon used with Giro D'italia on it. The decals on my Falcon are completely wrong.
> 
> ...



Picture of other side of bike.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2018)

Very nice . I guess there are no braze ons?


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## southcoast (18 Feb 2018)

Yes that’s correct no braze ons all ciip on cable guides. All Campagnolo except the top tube guides are Dura Ace! Cut out lugs with heart shape on top. RGF bottom bracket.
PS That blue Super Pro you posted on Retrobike I believe is 1978 different lugs and rear dropout. I’ve never seen one before.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2018)

Typical Falcon with no Braze ons, the ladies who built the frames were not taught to do them at the time........Falcon said it was to give every opportunity to use the full Campag range including all their clips. 

Some of the Super Pro models came with really odd rear dropouts where the hole for the mudguard bolt was on the inside. Again typical Falcon just using what they had around the workshop or could get cheap!

I must read the book by Ernie Clements brother sometime. There are also some rare Falcon badged Italian made frames kicking about, they were allegedly found when the factory closed and were flogged off. All chrome rear triangle iirc.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2018)

This book, going to have a hunt on t'internet later..


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## Illaveago (18 Feb 2018)

This is a picture of my 1978 Falcon. I thought it was a Black Diamond but I'm a bit unsure now. It originally had a steel crank and wheels, red Bluemels Veloce mudguards and Simplex rear derailleur.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2018)

Looking good  Dredging the memory but it could be an Olympic?

PS here's a later "Falcon" with all chrome rear triangle.


http://theflyingwheel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/falcon-proffesional.html


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## southcoast (18 Feb 2018)

Illaveago said:


> This is a picture of my 1978 Falcon. I thought it was a Black Diamond but I'm a bit unsure now. It originally had a steel crank and wheels, red Bluemels Veloce mudguards and Simplex rear derailleur.
> View attachment 396492



I like that, nice bike. Could possibly be a Olympic. I believe the Olympic was 531 plain gauge main tubes. So seatpost diameter is probably best was to tell.


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## southcoast (18 Feb 2018)

midlife said:


> Looking good  Dredging the memory but it could be an Olympic?
> 
> PS here's a later "Falcon" with all chrome rear triangle.
> 
> ...



That’s looks very nice with the Cinelli Bottom bracket, 82/83?


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## Alan O (18 Feb 2018)

Illaveago said:


> This is a picture of my 1978 Falcon. I thought it was a Black Diamond but I'm a bit unsure now. It originally had a steel crank and wheels, red Bluemels Veloce mudguards and Simplex rear derailleur.
> View attachment 396492


Ah, the decals on that look exactly the same as my old one a few posts earlier - it's a pity I don't have any better photos of it.


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## midlife (18 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> That’s looks very nice with the Cinelli Bottom bracket, 82/83?



Not sure, it has a brazed on front mech which might make it a bit later ?


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## Illaveago (18 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> I like that, nice bike. Could possibly be a Olympic. I believe the Olympic was 531 plain gauge main tubes. So seatpost diameter is probably best was to tell.


I thought I could remember seeing a Truwel transfer on the seat tube but I may be mistaken . I'll take a look tomorrow.


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## KneesUp (19 Feb 2018)

It's not quite 'Vintage' or particularly exotic, but my favourite road bike was a Falcon Strada from 1991 or 1992 (I think) which I got very cheap of a friend of my brothers (well off) friend becuase he'd bought it just as all his mates bought mountain bikes, so he decided to buy an MTB instead and wanted rid of what was then a seeply unfashionable road bike.

It was 531, said 'Handbuilt' on it, and was so amazingly futuristic it had quick release wheels, indexed downtube shifters - with a six speed freewheel, I'll have you know - and aero brake levers. Every now and again I'll scour eBay for one because it is the only bike (so far) I've ever had stolen, and I'd quite like another. Minus the impractical white saddle.

I don't have a picture of mine, but this is one I didn't see on Gumtree until it had sold. It's all original apart from the bar tape, which was also white if I remember correctly, and the seat post which was an unpainted fluted one. Unless my mate's brother changed that before I bought it I suppose! Mine also latterly had chrome forks becuase I bent the originals due to an unfortunate incident that involed the retaining nut from the front calliper coming off so that when I braked the calliper was pulled off and around the wheel for a very short distance until the cable ran out, and then I started to fly.


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## southcoast (19 Feb 2018)

Thanks for sharing. Good luck in your search to find another one.


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## mjr (21 Feb 2018)

It's described over in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/falcon-majorca-restoration.182937/ but this is still pretty much the 1983 Falcon Majorca's current configuration, except that the tail light has moved to the drive-side seat-stay and the back tyre is now an all-black Marathon after the HS wore thin. Oh and a snapped spoke was replaced and that rear mudguard bridge lifted up. Oh and the rear was replaced with a commonplace modern Shimano 6. Oh and the bottle cage was replaced with a butterfly-style one. Oh and the bell may be on the RHS of the stem now.


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## southcoast (22 Feb 2018)

PHL67 said:


> View attachment 396827
> I have an ec72 in bits waiting for paint shop. Came with Campagnolo shifter and rear derailleur.
> 
> Will post some pictures of frame once I can get to shed.
> ...



Who will be painting the frame and will it be in the original green?


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## southcoast (22 Feb 2018)

mjr said:


> It's described over in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/falcon-majorca-restoration.182937/ but this is still pretty much the 1983 Falcon Majorca's current configuration, except that the tail light has moved to the drive-side seat-stay and the back tyre is now an all-black Marathon after the HS wore thin. Oh and a snapped spoke was replaced and that rear mudguard bridge lifted up. Oh and the rear was replaced with a commonplace modern Shimano 6. Oh and the bottle cage was replaced with a butterfly-style one. Oh and the bell may be on the RHS of the stem now.
> View attachment 396791



Is that a long cage VX rear mech and is it working well with the modern Shimano freewheel? How are you finding the handling these days?
Here is a link to a 83 brochure http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Elswick Falcon catalogue 1983 (V-CC Library).pdf


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## mjr (22 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> Is that a long cage VX rear mech and is it working well with the modern Shimano freewheel? How are you finding the handling these days?


It's a Vx but I don't remember if it's GS or not. I think it's the right size but the cage is not marked like examples I've seen. It's working fine with the Shimano freewheel, although the front derailleur has to be trimmed to reach the most crossed gears.

Handling is better since fitting a shorter Origin8 stem.

Thanks for the brochure link.


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## Illaveago (22 Feb 2018)

I fitted a shorter stem as opposed to the original one that was fitted on the bike in the picture as I found the handling to be very twitchy.


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## PHL67 (22 Feb 2018)

southcoast said:


> Who will be painting the frame and will it be in the original green?


My colleague will paint the frame and yes doing it in green. As close to original as possible with original Decals.


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## Mogie (28 Feb 2018)

Hi guys. I've been give this bike. I think it's a Raleigh but not completely sure. It's been repainted with stickers. I was wondering if any one could give me clues to year and manufacturer and model. The frame numbers 25B76.thanks. Few photos


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## PHL67 (1 Mar 2018)

I don't think it's a Raleigh as they usually have nine digits. Two letters, 7 numbers.
This would be for location, month, and year with remainder being quantity built in that month for particular models.
Fantastic looking bike.
Are you going to ride it !


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## midlife (1 Mar 2018)

PHL67 said:


> I don't think it's a Raleigh as they usually have nine digits. Two letters, 7 numbers.
> This would be for location, month, and year with remainder being quantity built in that month for particular models.
> Fantastic looking bike.
> Are you going to ride it !



@Mogie was thinking it might be a Falcon.....


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## Mogie (1 Mar 2018)

midlife said:


> @Mogie was thinking it might be a Falcon.....


Oh yes. But was looking forward to painting it original colour plus stickers.


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## southcoast (2 Mar 2018)

Could the letter B in the frame number, be an 8?


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## Mogie (2 Mar 2018)

Yes it could. Tempted to scrap some paint off but its a lovely bike to look at, I don't want to spoil it.


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## The_Cycling_Scientist (19 May 2018)

Back in 2006 I had an old Ernie Clements 5 speed red roadie that road a dream, unfortunately due to a change of logistics and storage allowances I sold it and regretted it! 

It's taken me a few years to source a replacement but after going through bikes like there's no tomorrow I got offered one by a friend and who could refuse one in the colour I love the most! (purple no less!) The new edition that I collect next Sunday on the bank holiday weekend a 70's Black Diamond!


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## southcoast (19 May 2018)

Nice looking bike, really like the purple colour.


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## Illaveago (20 May 2018)

I have very long lasting memories of seeing a purple and black Black Diamond in the cycle sheds at school in the 60's . It is strange just how that colour scheme could have had such an effect. It made me think " I want one ! "
I was toying with the idea of respraying mine in that colour scheme .


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## southcoast (20 May 2018)

It’s amazing what a lasting impression things can have on one at that age. Probably why we like vintage bikes, always looking for things we wanted when we were younger. Your red Falcon looks nice. Why not look for a purple bike and keep your current one original. Can’t have too many bikes.


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## The_Cycling_Scientist (20 May 2018)

southcoast said:


> It’s amazing what a lasting impression things can have on one at that age. Probably why we like vintage bikes, always looking for things we wanted when we were younger. Your red Falcon looks nice. Why not look for a purple bike and keep your current one original. Can’t have too many bikes.



seconded! I've usually had things for yellow ones... had 3 yellow bikes in the past now.. my favorite was a yellow Dawes Chevron. was a perfect fit and I was stupid to sell it! 

Purple is one of the colours I've always wanted to own a bike in so it's a dream come true getting offered one by my good friend!


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## The_Cycling_Scientist (20 May 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I have very long lasting memories of seeing a purple and black Black Diamond in the cycle sheds at school in the 60's . It is strange just how that colour scheme could have had such an effect. It made me think " I want one ! "
> I was toying with the idea of respraying mine in that colour scheme .


Funny how now there seems to be so very little of them left! must have been what we call a "disposable bike" to the owners back then. (I personally think no bike is disposable and always deserves a new lease of life!).


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## Illaveago (20 May 2018)

The_Cycling_Scientist said:


> Funny how now there seems to be so very little of them left! must have been what we call a "disposable bike" to the owners back then. (I personally think no bike is disposable and always deserves a new lease of life!).


When you consider nearly every town had a factory employing a lot of people who cycled to work ,especially in the 1960's it makes you wonder where they all went . In my town when the workers went home the traffic came to a standstill as they would all pour out in a huge mass. A bit like the Tour Dr France .


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## midlife (20 May 2018)

It's strange but we sold the Black Diamond BITD and the black version was not the best seller lol. 

The purple did well as we polished them to gleaming and for once Falcon did a nice finish. They sent them off for silver powder coating and then had them sprayed in a semi transparent purple lacquer. Completely against the grain as Falcon usually spent their time shooting themselves in the foot!


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## The_Cycling_Scientist (21 May 2018)

Illaveago said:


> When you consider nearly every town had a factory employing a lot of people who cycled to work ,especially in the 1960's it makes you wonder where they all went . In my town when the workers went home the traffic came to a standstill as they would all pour out in a huge mass. A bit like the Tour Dr France .



Some scrap man probably had a field trip and is now sat laughing from the yacht he bought after weighing so many low end bikes nobody wanted......


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## southcoast (5 Jun 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I have very long lasting memories of seeing a purple and black Black Diamond in the cycle sheds at school in the 60's . It is strange just how that colour scheme could have had such an effect. It made me think " I want one ! "
> I was toying with the idea of respraying mine in that colour scheme .



There is a purple Falcon on ebay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-Fal...120911?hash=item441fe8b68f:g:K7IAAOSwVttbFrwK


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## The_Cycling_Scientist (5 Jun 2018)

southcoast said:


> There is a purple Falcon on ebay at the moment.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-Fal...120911?hash=item441fe8b68f:g:K7IAAOSwVttbFrwK


Funny thing is it's local to me! 
Two Purple Falcons in Cambridge... That's got to be a rare thing. Can't afford a second one!


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## southcoast (6 Jun 2018)

The_Cycling_Scientist said:


> Some scrap man probably had a field trip and is now sat laughing from the yacht he bought after weighing so many low end bikes nobody wanted......



I think a lot of the bikes that where used to cycle to school and work bitd had chromed steel components. The bikes were used in all weathers and when these parts rusted, often the bikes were thrown away!


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## Warny (8 Jun 2018)

That purple 5-speed in Cambridge looks good! Here's my Falcon Cotswold that I picked up a couple of months ago. It's a mix of components, both old and new. I've put a Gran Sport deraillheur on the front, not done too much else to it. Paintwork could be better, it looks like a pinkish colour where it hasn't faded! Comfy and smooth ride though


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## southcoast (9 Jun 2018)

A lot of Falcons seem to have migrated to Cambridge.


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## mjr (11 Jun 2018)

southcoast said:


> A lot of Falcons seem to have migrated to Cambridge.


Maybe they're after some Flying Pigeons which have taken up residence.


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2019)

I thought that I would revitalise this thread as I am expecting the arrival of an old frame . 
It is a Club Special ! .
No I'd never heard of one before !
What drew my attention to it was , apart from the name and the colour was the ornate lugs which turned out to be Nervex Serie Super Legere. The frame tubes are Reynolds 531
Trying to find information about Falcon bikes on the net is a bit of a nightmare as there doesn't seem to be much about . I can only find little snippets here and there .
What I have been able to piece together so far from looking at the pictures of it is that it seems to be quite old . Possibly early 60's. It has the metal Falcon head badge held in place with brass studs. The Falcon crest transfer is placed within black banding on the seat tube . It has Designed by Ernie Clements and Club Special on the cross bar. The Reynolds 531 transfer also seems to be an old style. 
The closest picture of a bike which resembles it I discovered last night was of a 1947 / 49 Ernie Clements.
So that is as far as I have got so far. I will leave you all in suspense until my frame arrives.


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## midlife (19 Oct 2019)

Just out of curiosity, have you read the book by one of the clements bros. "A bicycle ride through my life". Shows the omnishambles that was Falcon lol. Its a hard read though as the writing style doesn't flow....


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## southcoast (19 Oct 2019)

Falcon brochures seem few and far between and the ones that do exist often have a vague description of the bikes. I have a few of their brochures but nothing that old. There is however a brochure on this page showing a Club Special.

http://theflyingwheel.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_7269.html


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## Kempstonian (19 Oct 2019)

I have a Falcon frame:






It was a complete bike when I got it but at 23" its slightly too big for me, so I used the parts on another bike. I think this is a Black Diamond but it had lost all its decals except the head badge, which I removed in order to have the frame powder coated (its in the photo resting on the BB).

This is the bike when I bought it:






Now I've had second thoughts about the powder coating. I don't think I would recover the cost of it if I sold the frame afterwards, or even if I rebuilt the bike. I'd like to maybe swap it for a smaller frame of some sort and maybe build a bike I could actually ride!


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## midlife (19 Oct 2019)

Looks like it was a Black Diamond in its former life. The Carlton Flyer style lugs were typical of one. Should be some chrome on the forks though.


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## Kempstonian (19 Oct 2019)

midlife said:


> Looks like it was a Black Diamond in its former life. The Carlton Flyer style lugs were typical of one. Should be some chrome on the forks though.


Yes, I thought that too after seeing some brochures on the internet. Looks like it has been repainted, which is most likely the reason no decals exist now. The head badge is a foil one so they might have got it off and reglued it afterwards.


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2019)

southcoast said:


> Falcon brochures seem few and far between and the ones that do existed often have a vague description of the bikes. I have a few of their brochures but nothing that old. There is however a brochure on this page showing a Club Special.
> 
> http://theflyingwheel.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_7269.html


Thanks, that is it !
I will study them to see what differences there were between the models .


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2019)

So the frame is 15 shillings down from the Olympic frame .


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## midlife (19 Oct 2019)

75 pence lol. Probably a weeks wage back then. !


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2019)

midlife said:


> 75 pence lol. Probably a weeks wage back then. !


Pocket money was about 2 shillings and 6 pence which is 12.5 p.


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## MichaelW2 (19 Oct 2019)

My first serious bike was a Falcon Majorca in metallic purple from Madgetts of Diss. It had 27" wheels, steel rims, Shimano 600 5-speed gears. I rode it as my everyday hack bike for years then sold it to a friend. I was nothing special, unbutted chromoly I think but handled nicely.
The gearing was a bit high for touring and I think it held me back for too long.


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2019)

midlife said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you read the book by one of the clements bros. "A bicycle ride through my life". Shows the omnishambles that was Falcon lol. Its a hard read though as the writing style doesn't flow....


No I haven't, but I've read about Ernie Clements in the Boneshaker magazine.


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2019)

I have just been reading about Ernie Clements in" The Boneshaker " the Veteran -Cycle Club journal. Number ,176, volume 18, Spring 2008, by Jim Leach.
It would seem that the earliest Falcon cycle would date to 1956/ 57 when Ernie Clements became works manager for Roberts Cycle Industries which was later taken over by Coventry Eagle in late 1957.
I am assuming that the similarities between some of the early Falcons and Ernie Clements could be due to his involvement in their design and continuing with a tried and tested design . It is just a thought !


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2019)

1971 Falcon San Remo, with pedals and saddle from other bikes added for road testing. Pedals more in keeping with the period will follow, and a different saddle. I mostly use this for show, rather than an every day rider, although it could be.





Cable ties have since been replaced with original steel bands to hold rear brake cable to top tube. Derailleurs and shifters are Campagnolo. I used Mafac Racer brakes. This bike was thrown out in front of someone's house for the garbage men. Wheels are from my Bianchi Squadra, I have some period tubular and clincher wheel sets for this, but they need service and repair.


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2019)

Gravity Aided said:


> 1971 Falcon San Remo, with pedals and saddle from other bikes added for road testing. Pedals more in keeping with the period will follow, and a different saddle. I mostly use this for show, rather than an every day rider, although it could be.
> View attachment 489803
> 
> Cable ties have since been replaced with original steel bands to hold rear brake cable to top tube. Derailleurs and shifters are Campagnolo. I used Mafac Racer brakes. This bike was thrown out in front of someone's house for the garbage men. Wheels are from my Bianchi Squadra, I have some period tubular and clincher wheel sets for this, but they need service and repair.


It's a good job you rescued it !


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2019)

Illaveago said:


> It's a good job you rescued it !


It was on a Craigslist "Curb Alert", but a fellow I know who also repairs and flips bicycles got it first, but he didn't want to deal with the cottered cranks.


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## Illaveago (23 Oct 2019)

My Falcon Club Special arrived! 
I think it is early 60's . The frame number begins H 61, it has braze on fittings including front changer mount on the down tube . The seat post diameter is approx 27 mm. A grease nipple in the BB and waterslide transfers, I seem to remember seeing Falcons in mid 60's with vinyl stickers .
I am in the process of giving it a good clean at the moment.


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## midlife (23 Oct 2019)

Is the brazon for one of those old rod changers


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## Illaveago (23 Oct 2019)

midlife said:


> Is the brazon for one of those old rod changers
> 
> View attachment 490255


No it is for the front lever on the down tube . It is only on one side so it would be a bit difficult to fit another lever so the other option would be to fit a changer like you have illustrated.


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## midlife (23 Oct 2019)

Oops, sorry, I mis read your post, I mentally substituted seat tube for down tube.


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## Illaveago (23 Oct 2019)

midlife said:


> Oops, sorry, I mis read your post, I mentally substituted seat tube for down tube.


That's all right !
I just looked at the 1960 catalogue to see the spec. It shows a changer fitted like in your picture, so they offered them in ,5 or 10 speeds .


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## Illaveago (24 Oct 2019)

Here is my Falcon Club Special frame.
It will need some treatment as there is quite a bit of rust on the frame. I will also have to have a rummage around in my garage for spare parts to fit it.


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Oct 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Here is my Falcon Club Special frame.



Are you sure it's a Falcon-built Falcon? Those seatstays look suspiciously like something built by Carlton to me! I wonder if they indulged in badge-engineering mischief and bought in some of their frames from other makers?


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## midlife (25 Oct 2019)

Falcon built frames for Raleigh / Carlton but not the other way round. If Raleigh wanted more frames they had the clout to get them elsewhere and Falcon did the Carlton type seat stays on their line. 

The badge holes look Falcon


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## Illaveago (26 Oct 2019)

I'm sure it is an early Falcon built at a time before they forgot how to braze fittings on . 
The badge is an original metal one held on with brass studs. 
Whilst trying to do some research into the model I came across a lot of Falcons with wrap around seat stays. It shares the same thin pencil seat stays as my Black Diamond so hopefully it should ride as well if not better.


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## Illaveago (2 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> Yes, I thought that too after seeing some brochures on the internet. Looks like it has been repainted, which is most likely the reason no decals exist now. The head badge is a foil one so they might have got it off and reglued it afterwards.


I discovered a catalogue which shows the Black Diamond without chrome forks .


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## SkipdiverJohn (3 Nov 2019)

My old early 80's copy of the cycling Bible, Richard's Bicycle Book, has the Black Diamond in it's list of basic quality recommended bikes. I've found that book to be very sound in it's advice, and it mentions some well-proven machinery, some of which I have either ridden or owned myself.


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## Kempstonian (3 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> I discovered a catalogue which shows the Black Diamond without chrome forks .


So mine might be original paintwork then? I do wonder what happened to all the decals though. They haven't worn off, that's for sure.


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## Illaveago (3 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> So mine might be original paintwork then? I do wonder what happened to all the decals though. They haven't worn off, that's for sure.


I think around the mid 60's Falcon seem to have switched to vinyl type stickers. Mine are curling back around the edges.
Someone could have removed them at sometime in the past and it wouldn't have left any marks .


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## Illaveago (3 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> I have a Falcon frame:
> 
> View attachment 489651
> 
> ...


Why don't you give the frame a T cut or something similar, fit some alloy wheels and get it going again?
My Black Diamond has been utterly transformed after fitting some alloy wheels and double clanger and is the most ridden of all my bikes .


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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2019)

I was reading a VCC magazine last night and found an article in which an owner said that he had a Falcon which he bought in 1967 in which the frame number ended in a 7. Could it be that the last digit refers to the year of manufacture ? My Club Special ends in 0 which would fit with the year in which my investigation seems to point to .
It would be interesting if owners could check their bikes to see if my theory has any validity ?
I will check my Black Diamond later .


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## Paulus (4 Nov 2019)

The Falcon I own has the frame number M910323 It is stamped at the bottom of the seat tube near to the bottom bracket. I thought it was a 1978 /9 model.


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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2019)

Paulus said:


> The Falcon I own has the frame number M910323 It is stamped at the bottom of the seat tube near to the bottom bracket. I thought it was a 1978 /9 model.
> View attachment 491735


It could be that you are right. The style of transfers would suit a later period.
Have you checked the back of the brake calipers for a date stamp ?
It is just a theory I was trying out.


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## Paulus (4 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> It could be that you are right. The style of transfers would suit a later period.
> Have you checked the back of the brake calipers for a date stamp ?
> It is just a theory I was trying out.


I will take the calipers off and have a look.


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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2019)

I would have thought that the company must have a code of some sort so that they could keep track of things especially if they had any problems which needed resolving .


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## Paulus (4 Nov 2019)

Paulus said:


> I will take the calipers off and have a look.


Had a look, but no date stamp anywhere. They are Shimano Tourney centre pull calipers and the only stamp is "Japan"


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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2019)

Paulus said:


> Had a look, but no date stamp anywhere. They are Shimano Tourney centre pull calipers and the only stamp is "Japan"


I went and had a look at my Black Diamond. The number is stamped into the bottom bracket C 24547. I looked for a date stamp on the rear Weinmann 730 side pull , it to hasn't got a date stamp either . I'm not sure what I did with the front one .
The rear derailleur is a Simplex Prestige so it has a limited time period for when it was fitted but could have been in the period 67 to 72.
The seat post sticker is a made in Lincoln one , 1967 was when Falcon moved there .
So at the moment it could be 67 or 72. I will have another look to see if the style of transfers could narrow down the date .


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## Kempstonian (4 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Why don't you give the frame a T cut or something similar, fit some alloy wheels and get it going again?
> My Black Diamond has been utterly transformed after fitting some alloy wheels and double clanger and is the most ridden of all my bikes .


I'm sure now that the paintwork is original, because somebody scraped some off to see the frame number more clearly and the blue is the only paint on there. If it was resprayed it must have been a long time ago. The blue paint does have some black touch ups where I presume there were rust spots. Why the owner didn't use blue paint I don't know but the black seems to be a bitumen like paint, so it may have been to stop the rust coming back?

I bought it as a complete bike but its a 23" which is just too big for me, so I've used the parts elsewhere now.

The frame number by the way looks like G27200. The G is very small compared to the number.


----------



## Kempstonian (4 Nov 2019)




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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> I'm sure now that the paintwork is original, because somebody scraped some off to see the frame number more clearly and the blue is the only paint on there. If it was resprayed it must have been a long time ago. The blue paint does have some black touch ups where I presume there were rust spots. Why the owner didn't use blue paint I don't know but the black seems to be a bitumen like paint, so it may have been to stop the rust coming back?
> 
> I bought it as a complete bike but its a 23" which is just too big for me, so I've used the parts elsewhere now.
> 
> The frame number by the way looks like G27200. The G is very small compared to the number.


You should be able to wash the bitumen paint off with white spirit. It would have stopped from rusting further .
So your frame has the number in the same position as mine. It also starts with the same number and has the same number of digits.
The letters seem to appear at random.


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2019)

Had a re think!
Total change of thought! Using that frame number from August 1967 as a guide I wondered if Falcon used an alphabetical system to date the months but excluding O and I as they look too much like numbers. This way half of the alphabet would count for one year and the other half would be for the following year.
By counting back using that system I have come up with a start date of 1956. A would be January. This from working on the one letter and five digit system.
I wonder if they used the different sized letters to differentiate the years?


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## Kempstonian (5 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> You should be able to wash the bitumen paint off with white spirit. It would have stopped from rusting further .
> So your frame has the number in the same position as mine. It also starts with the same number and has the same number of digits.
> The letters seem to appear at random.


I'll try the white spirit - it would be nice to get rid of the black.

Looking at your red Falcon on page 2, and the green frame of PHL67's, I think we all have the same model judging by the top of the seat stays, the lugs and no braze ons (although his does have pump ones)... so I'm now doubting whether mine IS a Black Diamond.


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> I'll try the white spirit - it would be nice to get rid of the black.
> 
> Looking at your red Falcon on page 2, and the green frame of PHL67's, I think we all have the same model judging by the top of the seat stays, the lugs and no braze ons (although his does have pump ones)... so I'm now doubting whether mine IS a Black Diamond.


I think they could be Black Diamonds. Have a look down inside the seat tube to see if you can see a weld seam running the length of the tube. Mine has as I think it has Truwel tubing . If it hasn't it will indicate that it has Reynolds 531 tubing which would suggest a different model.
Do you still have the parts which came with your bike? If you have the brake calipers you may be able to find a date stamp on the backs of them .


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Nov 2019)

Aside from weight, the seatpost diameter should give the game away if a frame is 531 DB. AFAIK, both Tru-wel and Raleigh 18-23 hi-tensile steel require a 1" seatpost.


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## midlife (6 Nov 2019)

The Bike shop I worked in sold Falcon bikes. The numbering system seemed completely random lol. Later frames from the far east had a different system though. The Black Diamond name was recycled for years by Falcon. Rather like a modern Ford Fiesta is different from one's from ages ago.... But the name is the same.


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## Kempstonian (6 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> I think they could be Black Diamonds. Have a look down inside the seat tube to see if you can see a weld seam running the length of the tube. Mine has as I think it has Truwel tubing . If it hasn't it will indicate that it has Reynolds 531 tubing which would suggest a different model.
> Do you still have the parts which came with your bike? If you have the brake calipers you may be able to find a date stamp on the backs of them .


I did look at the calipers a while ago but I don't think they were the original ones, as they have no date stamped on them. I just now checked the seat tube and I think there is a weld, but its hard to see because the blue paint covers up the only part I can see. There is what appears to be a crack in the paint which runs down the tube, so I assume that's where the weld is.

Here's a couple of pics of the bike as I got it (I had already removed the black bar tape):


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## Illaveago (6 Nov 2019)

I see that yours has side pulls like mine which also doesn't have a date stamp.


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## southcoast (7 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> I did look at the calipers a while ago but I don't think they were the original ones, as they have no date stamped on them. I just now checked the seat tube and I think there is a weld, but its hard to see because the blue paint covers up the only part I can see. There is what appears to be a crack in the paint which runs down the tube, so I assume that's where the weld is.
> 
> Here's a couple of pics of the bike as I got it (I had already removed the black bar tape):
> 
> ...



My guess is it’s about 1978. Any date codes on the chainset which looks like it might be Sugino?


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## Kempstonian (8 Nov 2019)

southcoast said:


> My guess is it’s about 1978. Any date codes on the chainset which looks like it might be Sugino?


On the inside of the smaller ring it says SUGINO 40, but I can't see any marks on the larger ring.
The chainring crank has FORGED 171 JAPAN and G-3 on the inside and it is branded Maxy. The other crank has a similar marking except it has I-4 instead of the G-3.


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## midlife (8 Nov 2019)

Sugino Maxy were a popular 70's alloy chainset, usually had a red plastic screw cap over the crank bolt....which self destructed at every opportunity lol


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## southcoast (9 Nov 2019)

Kempstonian said:


> On the inside of the smaller ring it says SUGINO 40, but I can't see any marks on the larger ring.
> The chainring crank has FORGED 171 JAPAN and G-3 on the inside and it is branded Moxy. The other crank has a similar marking except it has I-4 instead of the G-3.



G-3 appears to be March 77 and I -4 appears to be April 79. Have a look at the vintage trek web site and see if you come to the same conclusion.


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## southcoast (9 Nov 2019)

midlife said:


> Sugino Maxy were a popular 70's alloy chainset, usually had a red plastic screw cap over the crank bolt....which self destructed at every opportunity lol



lol yes I think the dust caps were made out of cheese? Also leaving the dust caps off made you look like a real racing cyclist!


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## Kempstonian (9 Nov 2019)

Well gents, we have a minor miracle! One of my red caps survived! The slot in it is rather chewed up though. I had removed it and put it 'somewhere safe', so its no longer on the crank (which, if I had left it alone, would have made my search for 'Sugino' markings a bit easier).


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## Kempstonian (9 Nov 2019)

southcoast said:


> G-3 appears to be March 77 and I -4 appears to be April 79. Have a look at the vintage trek web site and see if you come to the same conclusion.


Yes it does look as if they are the dates... but it says they could be plus or minus a year, so I think the bike could well be a 1978 model? (one of the first I-4 markings and an 'old stock' G-3)

Edit: Or possibly one crank has been replaced.


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## Illaveago (9 Nov 2019)

It seems as though as Ernie Clements cycles were made alongside Falcon cycles for a number of years using the same script "Designed by Ernie Clements" on the crossbar also using some of the same names .


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## Illaveago (19 Nov 2019)

I noticed that the Falcon script on the down tube had altered and could be a way of identifying early bikes . I noticed that the horizontal bars on the letter F are more or less equal in length. This was changed to have the top bar much longer overlapping the letter A . This new style appears in the 1960 main header of the catalogue and on the teams T shirts, yet the cycles in the catalogue feature the old style transfers.
I thought I would pass on this observation .


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## biggs682 (7 Dec 2019)

Just to add some more information just picked up this Falcon no idea what model . But original rear hub is dated late 79 and with Shimano 600 mechanism's looks about right.






















Just a shame the down tube is wrinkled from I can only presume a previous front impact.


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## Illaveago (7 Dec 2019)

biggs682 said:


> Just to add some more information just picked up this Falcon no idea what model . But original rear hub is dated late 79 and with Shimano 600 mechanism's looks about right.
> View attachment 495702
> 
> 
> ...


I thought the forks looked a tad slopy backwards !
Quite simple to straighten ! You just need an old axle to put in the front forks, something to push against on the BB , a bottle jack and a length of wood .


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## midlife (7 Dec 2019)

Arabesque shimano kit fits in with the age of the rear hub, thought it might be a Harrier but don't think so. Shame about the front end, looks in really good nick


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## southcoast (7 Dec 2019)

Appears to be a post code and a serial number. Looks like it may be a November 79 bike, possibly a Majorca. Has the stand caused any damage to the chainstays?


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## Illaveago (7 Dec 2019)

I was wondering if it was built after Ernie Clements left to set up his own factory in Wales which would take it into the 80's ?


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## midlife (7 Dec 2019)

Good shout on the Majorca


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## biggs682 (7 Dec 2019)

midlife said:


> Arabesque shimano kit fits in with the age of the rear hub, thought it might be a Harrier but don't think so. Shame about the front end, looks in really good nick



Yes it would clean up well but will be stripped for spares as not worth repairing the frame. 



southcoast said:


> Has the stand caused any damage to the chainstays?



Not looked


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## southcoast (7 Dec 2019)

Illaveago said:


> I was wondering if it was built after Ernie Clements left to set up his own factory in Wales which would take it into the 80's ?


I think it was made when Ernie was still with Falcon. I don’t think it was made in Wales.
Is there a head badge?


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## biggs682 (7 Dec 2019)

southcoast said:


> I think it was made when Ernie was still with Falcon. I don’t think it was made in Wales.
> Is there a head badge?


More of a very faded transfer


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## Illaveago (7 Dec 2019)

It does seem to be a Majorca. 
I think there is a 1978 one out the bay at the moment which is 1794 earlier.
I think the frame material is Tange .


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## southcoast (7 Dec 2019)

Illaveago said:


> It does seem to be a Majorca.
> I think there is a 1978 one out the bay at the moment which is 1794 earlier.
> I think the frame material is Tange .



Yes Tange Champion no 5 for a Majorca I believe. Year 9 month K ?
Do you have a link to the other one?


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## Illaveago (7 Dec 2019)

Ahttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/56cm-Vintage-Road-Bike-FALCON-OLYMPIC-Ernie-Clement-Circa-1978-99p-start/264543431487?hash=item3d98046b3f:g:6BcAAOSwDtFd2U4~


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## biggs682 (8 Dec 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Ahttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/56cm-Vintage-Road-Bike-FALCON-OLYMPIC-Ernie-Clement-Circa-1978-99p-start/264543431487?hash=item3d98046b3f:g:6BcAAOSwDtFd2U4~


Why different colour forks ?


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## Illaveago (8 Dec 2019)

My two Falcons, or a Pair of Grins !


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## southcoast (8 Dec 2019)

A nice pair, just need a white one now?


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## John Mac (8 Jan 2020)

Some lovely Falcons on this post, here is my 1980 Falcon Professional. Originally purchased from a shop in Lancashire in 81'. I am told It was a show bike for the then new Shimano Aerodynamics Ax series which didn't really gain too much popularity. Some components are now 600.
Typically Falcon, very little is known about the bike, it's frame number is 00002, people have speculated it was a special build, but we will never really know. 
It was donated to me by a lovely old semi pro racer in 2009, I don't use it often but it rides beautifully.


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## midlife (8 Jan 2020)

That's fab , Falcon have a brochure with two of their pro riders standing next to a bike like that. Must have a search for it. The super pro was not reynolds with chrome forks I think. The number probably means it wasn't a routine production line frame.


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## Kempstonian (8 Jan 2020)

John Mac said:


> Some lovely Falcons on this post, here is my 1980 Falcon Professional. Originally purchased from a shop in Lancashire in 81'. I am told It was a show bike for the then new Shimano Aerodynamics Ax series which didn't really gain too much popularity. Some components are now 600.
> Typically Falcon, very little is known about the bike, it's frame number is 00002, people have speculated it was a special build, but we will never really know.
> It was donated to me by a lovely old semi pro racer in 2009, I don't use it often but it rides beautifully.


That's a bit special. Great condition, it looks like it was made last week! 👍👍


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## southcoast (8 Jan 2020)

Thats very interesting the serial number on my Falcon Super Pro is very similar to that, only one number that isn’t a zero.
Thats a very nice Falcon. What modifications were made when it was restored?


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## John Mac (9 Jan 2020)

southcoast said:


> Thats very interesting the serial number on my Falcon Super Pro is very similar to that, only one number that isn’t a zero.
> Thats a very nice Falcon. What modifications were made when it was restored?


Thanks for your kind comments,by the time I took ownership it had been relegated to the turbo trainer and was quite corroded. I fitted some 700c Mavic Module e and Brooks Swift. Along with a repaint in the team colour all of the anodised parts were stripped and machine polished. Do you have a picture of the Super Pro, what era is it.


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## southcoast (9 Jan 2020)

If the frame numbers are anything to go by, it would seem to have been made at about the same time as your pro, but with Falcon who really knows? My bike has no brazed on cable guides so appears to be a earlier spec.
One thing to note is both bikes have squared off stays where they meet the rear dropouts, earlier bikes would be rounded off at the end of the stays.


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## southcoast (10 Jan 2020)

@John Mac what was the size of the original seatpost?


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## 99ragtop (21 Feb 2020)

Here is my Falcon San Remo - Do not have a specific date of the Frame, but I believe it is CIRCA 1970. I bought it as a frame and fork and ir hung in my garage for about 10 years. It is original paint but new decals. My idea was to build it with all British components. I collected components over the years, and just last year I finally had enough to put it together into a ride worthy British Tourer. I did pretty well, but I had to go with Campy Wheels and a Campy Record Crank. I was able to go British the rest of the way! GB Brakes, Bars Stem and Toe clips. Benelux detailers with a Super 60 rear derailleur (took me a while to find that!) Bluemels Popular Fenders and of course a Brooks Professional saddle. This picture was taken befo




before I changed out the fenders and the Super 60 Derailleur (Campy N Record shown). Very comfortable ride and always gets attention when I take her out for a ride.


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## Illaveago (19 Oct 2020)

It looks like I may have come across another Falcon frame by accident . It is looking like a Falcon Professional underneath a lot of different coloured paint .


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## Kempstonian (20 Oct 2020)

I have a 23" Ernie Clements Falcon frame. No decals but I have the head badge. Not sure what to do with it because its just a bit big for me.


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## southcoast (20 Oct 2020)

Kempstonian said:


> I have a 23" Ernie Clements Falcon frame. No decals but I have the head badge. Not sure what to do with it because its just a bit big for me.



Any pictures?


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2020)

Here is the latest Falcon to be discovered !


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2020)

I ghot this a couple of months ago. It is a Falcon Olympic. I think it will be a fine single speed


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2020)

Gravity Aided said:


> View attachment 553552
> 
> I ghot this a couple of months ago. It is a Falcon Olympic. I think it will be a fine single speed


That was the colour of the Black Diamond I can remember seeing when I was at school back in the mid 60's. It had black shading and chrome effect stickers . It has left a lasting impression on me .


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## Gravity Aided (20 Oct 2020)

Illaveago said:


> That was the colour of the Black Diamond I can remember seeing when I was at school back in the mid 60's. It had black shading and chrome effect stickers . It has left a lasting impression on me .


It has been heavily ridden by Chronos, but this bike has some corroded derailleurs I may want to polish up, the claw hanger attachment just leads me toward the single-speed option. The Pryma saddle is already on the Schwinn Passage, my full sized touring bike. I also have a compact frame tourer, a Raleigh Sojourn, which has one of those Chinese leather saddles on it. It has a ding in the downtube, it has a few issues, but my current single speed frame is a bit too large for me, so this one, a bit too small, should work out fine. I have white deep V single speed 27" wheels set up, as well as a chainwheel made for this set-up.


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## rogerzilla (20 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> 298 Super Pro if memory serves
> 
> Here's my pink Falcon San Remo
> 
> View attachment 395435


I love the way you carefully arranged and composed that shot 😄


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## Kempstonian (20 Oct 2020)

southcoast said:


> Any pictures?


Yes...here it is:


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## midlife (20 Oct 2020)

That's a black diamond'y frame with those curly lugs, not sure if they were looking back at the Carlton Flyer style?


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## Kempstonian (20 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> That's a black diamond'y frame with those curly lugs, not sure if they were looking back at the Carlton Flyer style?


Yes, I forgot to mention that I had tentatively identified it as a Black Diamond. It was a complete bike but I stripped it for the parts. I was in two minds about sand blasting & powder coating it (which is why I took the head badge off), so I decided to do nothing and decide later.


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## midlife (20 Oct 2020)

Kempstonian said:


> Yes, I forgot to mention that I had tentatively identified it as a Black Diamond. It was a complete bike but I stripped it for the parts. I was in two minds about sand blasting & powder coating it (which is why I took the head badge off), so I decided to do nothing and decide later.



I've said this before probably, but we sold Falcon bikes, in the bike shop I worked in back in the 70's, 

Unwrapping one was like Forrest Gump, you never knew what you were going to get


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Unwrapping one was like Forrest Gump, you never knew what you were going to get



I'm sure all the subsequent Falcon owners 45 years later really appreciate all the headscratching and uncertainty.  I prefer the boring bike variety myself, where you can tell exactly what it is because it's the spec you expect and not a mish-mash. Raleigh and Dawes seem quite consistent other than the odd wrapover Tru-wel frame with Raleigh decals.


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## avecReynolds531 (21 Oct 2020)

southcoast said:


> It’s amazing what a lasting impression things can have on one at that age. Probably why we like vintage bikes, always looking for things we wanted when we were younger. Your red Falcon looks nice. Why not look for a purple bike and keep your current one original. Can’t have too many bikes.


+ 1
Always liked the red & black Falcon Black Diamonds when I was a teen - seeing the bikes now, it's amazing how it takes you back in a powerful nostalgia.

I also remember seeing a sparkling new Majorca like this:




and the cromo decal was a real mystery at the time.

Thanks for an interesting thread. I've been reading the history of Elswick Hopper in Barton-upon-Humber and it covers Falcon years too.


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## Illaveago (21 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Looking good  Dredging the memory but it could be an Olympic?
> 
> PS here's a later "Falcon" with all chrome rear triangle.
> 
> ...


Ah! The frame in the picture is identical to mine apart from mine doesn't have any chrome , braze ons, different lugs, bottom bracket! 
It does however explain the white section on the seat tube ! I was wondering why the panel is placed so high upon the frame and not central. So from the picture it would suggest that my frame was painted similarly but with another white panel on the down tube .


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## Illaveago (21 Oct 2020)

Here is what I have uncovered so far . It seems like it had several panels painted in contrasting white . The remnants of some clear vinyl can be see at the top of the seat tube where the white finishes and the metallic blue starts .


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## Illaveago (23 Oct 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm sure all the subsequent Falcon owners 45 years later really appreciate all the headscratching and uncertainty.  I prefer the boring bike variety myself, where you can tell exactly what it is because it's the spec you expect and not a mish-mash. Raleigh and Dawes seem quite consistent other than the odd wrapover Tru-wel frame with Raleigh decals.


I'm having a similar problem in trying to sort out what my new frame is . They seem to have changed their frame material over the years. 
The front and rear dropouts are different . The front is Campag and the rear is Shimano . I wonder if their stores was a Lucky Dip ?


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## Gravity Aided (23 Oct 2020)

Illaveago said:


> I'm having a similar problem in trying to sort out what my new frame is . They seem to have changed their frame material over the years.
> The front and rear dropouts are different . The front is Campag and the rear is Shimano . I wonder if their stores was a Lucky Dip ?


Or choice of fork?


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## Illaveago (23 Oct 2020)

Gravity Aided said:


> Or choice of fork?


The fork is in the same colour so it would suggest that it was the original one .


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## Gravity Aided (23 Oct 2020)

Illaveago said:


> The fork is in the same colour so it would suggest that it was the original one .


I meant at the factory. Old stock may have been different from a match, or something.


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## Illaveago (29 Oct 2020)

midlife said:


> Looking good  Dredging the memory but it could be an Olympic?
> 
> PS here's a later "Falcon" with all chrome rear triangle.
> 
> ...


This is the colour scheme that I have uncovered underneath all of the coats of paint . The main body of the frame was painted in a light sky blue metallic. The green tinge has come from the lacquer which has yellowed with age . White panels were added similar to the picture of the Team Professional in the flyingwheel blogspot. I found another Falcon Team Professional in the same colour with a white panel on the down tube in a later post .
So I'm wondering if Falcon did a Team Professional replica in this colour scheme ?


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## Illaveago (29 Oct 2020)

My frame would have looked a bit like this one bar the chrome bits https://images.app.goo.gl/4LWamc3p8dDxAqg96


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## Astore (29 Oct 2020)

Last time I owned a Falcon was 1983. My daily commuter, I had this Majorca from 1980 to 1983. Served me well cycling to Technical College and to my first couple of real jobs. As with most of my bikes, it was "updated" as time went on.


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## Illaveago (30 Oct 2020)

I have just weighed the frame including front forks and it weighs 9 1/4 lbs for a 22 1/2 inch frame .


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## Illaveago (31 Oct 2020)

I discovered this Falcon on the bay which seems to have the same layout of Falcon logos that my frame would have had https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Falcon-Racing-Bike/124393089209


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## Warny (20 Nov 2020)

Hi all, saw a Falcon Cotswold racer advertised quite locally and as I've got one anyway thought I'd get another! Seems to be from 1986, all original and the seller said it's been in storage most of the last ten years.

531 frame and forks, Sachs-Huret 5x rear gears with 3x front chainrings. Weinmann brakes, Rigida rims with Maillard hubs and QR. Can't make out the lettering on the rear dropouts, sadly the brake hoods have perished and I think the front deraileur plastic bracket was on the way out, as it broke when I was adjusting the height! Might try a cable tie to keep it in place.


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## Mandobob (2 Dec 2020)

Illaveago said:


> I discovered this Falcon on the bay which seems to have the same layout of Falcon logos that my frame would have had https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Falcon-Racing-Bike/124393089209


The bike that looks like that is in Falcon catalogues as follows:
1986 (453 tubing) Team Equipe
1988 (770 - Falcon's own tubing) L'Equipe
It is in red in both the ctalogues and the only real ones I have seen are also red. Not to be confused with the San Remo Equipe wich was their top of the range model until the early 1980s.


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## Mandobob (2 Dec 2020)

So to add to the bikes, here is my model 80 San Remo, 1975ish which I have just managed to rebuild after much searching for bits, waiting for respray and many many other distractions.


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## Mandobob (2 Dec 2020)

And two more...


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## Illaveago (2 Dec 2020)

Mandobob said:


> And two more...
> View attachment 561263
> 
> 
> View attachment 561264


The image above the word Falcon on the seat tube is the Coventry Eagle which is a stylised version of the head badge of my Coventry Eagle Triple Ace Convertible Tandem .


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## Illaveago (2 Dec 2020)

The brakes which came with my blue frame are a pair of gold anodised Weinmann 500's with a date stamp of 1977. I thought that they had come from a Raleigh Record Sprint but that model didn't come out until 1980. If they are original equipment it would date my frame to 77/78.


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## midlife (2 Dec 2020)

Very nice  are the forks original?


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## Mandobob (8 Dec 2020)

The Coventry Eagle image is there because from 1957 to 1971 Falcon was owned by Coventry Eagle. In 1971 Clements took over control of the company and he re-named it Falcon Cycles. The company retained rights to the name and continued to make Coventry Eagle badged bikes (the 1980 catalogue which I have includes some).

I can't be sure about the forks as when I bought the frame and forks the paint was not original. It does have the front lamp bracket on which was a feature of their models for many years.

Glad there are a few of us around who appreciate Falcon bikes!


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## Mandobob (8 Dec 2020)

Illaveago said:


> This is the colour scheme that I have uncovered underneath all of the coats of paint . The main body of the frame was painted in a light sky blue metallic. The green tinge has come from the lacquer which has yellowed with age . White panels were added similar to the picture of the Team Professional in the flyingwheel blogspot. I found another Falcon Team Professional in the same colour with a white panel on the down tube in a later post .
> So I'm wondering if Falcon did a Team Professional replica in this colour scheme ?
> View attachment 555202


I have been pondering this blue frame for some time. I have only ever seen Team Equipe bikes in red (the racing teams changed to red for the 1985 and 1986 seasons. In 1983/84 seasons they were a darker blue, as per your reference photo (that bike is, I understand, Sid Barras' training bike). The blue team bikes were built by Paul Washington of Brian Rourke Cycles.


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## Mandobob (8 Dec 2020)

Illaveago said:


> This is the colour scheme that I have uncovered underneath all of the coats of paint . The main body of the frame was painted in a light sky blue metallic. The green tinge has come from the lacquer which has yellowed with age . White panels were added similar to the picture of the Team Professional in the flyingwheel blogspot. I found another Falcon Team Professional in the same colour with a white panel on the down tube in a later post .
> So I'm wondering if Falcon did a Team Professional replica in this colour scheme ?
> View attachment 555202


Further thought: Can you see evidence of two holes on the head tube where a metal badge had been fitted? Even filled in holes? The metal badges stopped being fitted around 1978 when Clements sold out to Elswick Hopper and became a director of that firm. I am guessing here that the new management fitted the foil badges as a cost saving measure.


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## Illaveago (8 Dec 2020)

midlife said:


> Very nice  are the forks original?


They are an exact match colour wise so it seems as though they were on the frame when it was originally sprayed .


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## Illaveago (8 Dec 2020)

Mandobob said:


> Further thought: Can you see evidence of two holes on the head tube where a metal badge had been fitted? Even filled in holes? The metal badges stopped being fitted around 1978 when Clements sold out to Elswick Hopper and became a director of that firm. I am guessing here that the new management fitted the foil badges as a cost saving measure.


I haven't looked up inside the steerer tube but I will do .
From what I have seen from stripping the paint off the lug work has been done really well with no file marks or gaps where the braze was missing . Even the gold lining of the lugs was done really well. At one point I thought that the gold was braze showing through but it washed off with more cleaning .
It is an enigma !


----------



## Illaveago (9 Dec 2020)

I have removed the forks and looked down the steerer tube. there are no holes for a badge .
Here is my frame as it looks now stripped back to the original paint scheme .


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## Mandobob (9 Dec 2020)

Are those not Bocama lugs? They look exactly like the ones on my 1979 SuperPro. 
I have also noticed that the rear brake bridge has the reinforcing, again just like the SuperPro. This latter feature only seems to appear 1979 ish or later. To have that means it is not low in the hierarchy of Falcons. 
I am also puzzled by the seat tube treatment because again about 1978 the seat tubes were fitted with the square capital letters spelling out "FALCON" vertically, with a flying falcon at the top and bottom (apart from the Tourist / Super Tourist which had two rings and a duplicate foil type head tube badge on the seat tube, facing forwards). The white panel treatment was either a 1960s style or a mid/late 1980s style.
What is the internal diameter of the seat tube? (27.2 = 531 butted, 26.8 = 531 plain gauge, 27 = Accles & Pollock Cr-Mo). Was there any transfer on the seat tube?


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## Illaveago (9 Dec 2020)

I assumed that they were Prugnat but I'm only going by what I have gathered from the net . I measured the seat tube with my Vernier and it measured it as 27.2
The brake bridge reinforcement doesn't have the recess so it is an earlier type .
All I can find is a small piece of clear vinyl at the top of the white panel on the seat tube where it meets the metallic blue. As it is covering these colours it shows that the blue and white were there originally . The way in which the white bands have been masked out would suggest that bands would have gone on top to finish them off . The gold lining was done to a high standard . The bottom bracket lugs and brake bridge where it meets the seat stays were also lined .


----------



## Gravity Aided (10 Dec 2020)

Look like they could be either 
Bocama
Prugnat
Haden
From what I see on the "net"


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## southcoast (11 Dec 2020)

Illaveago said:


> I have removed the forks and looked down the steerer tube. there are no holes for a badge .
> Here is my frame as it looks now stripped back to the original paint scheme .
> View attachment 562586
> 
> ...



I think we can safely say it’s a 79 or 80 Falcon and resembles a pro more than any other model.
We could theorise about the discrepancies and never really know the answer.


----------



## Mandobob (11 Dec 2020)

The seat tube measurement is significant. By the end of the 1970s there were very few models made by Falcon in 531 butted tubing. In the 1976 catalogue (just a couple of years before your frame seems to date from) only three models have 531 butted: 

model 76 San Remo Equipe (which has the distinctive seat cluster), 
model 84 Cote d'Azur
model 88 Super Tourist de luxe (chrome ends to the forks). 

The model 84 Cote d'Azur had been made on and off since 1963 and the model number continued in 1983, renamed the Alpine. 

For my money, the lug type, the detail at the top of the seat stays, and the rear brake bridge detail put it in the 1978/79 ish era. Falcons are notorious for finishing their models slightly differently (I have photos of between 400 and 500 Falcons between the 1960s and the early 1990s and there are all sorts of frame decoration anomalies in there, so yours would not be unusual to have the white panels on seat and bottom tube.

That is about as far as I can get! Without doubt it is a nice good frame which deserves a top quality rebuild and repaint. Do go for stove enamelling if you can.


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## biggs682 (11 Dec 2020)

So who if anyone on cycle chat bought this last night , I know it wasn't me

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193778242215


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## Illaveago (11 Dec 2020)

It wasn't me ! I've got enough to get on with .


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## Gravity Aided (11 Dec 2020)

Illaveago said:


> It wasn't me ! I've got enough to get on with .


Nor me. Shipping would be too expensive.


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## Illaveago (11 Dec 2020)

Mandobob said:


> The seat tube measurement is significant. By the end of the 1970s there were very few models made by Falcon in 531 butted tubing. In the 1976 catalogue (just a couple of years before your frame seems to date from) only three models have 531 butted:
> 
> model 76 San Remo Equipe (which has the distinctive seat cluster),
> model 84 Cote d'Azur
> ...


Thanks .
I think I'm leaning towards San Remo Equipe as it is a 22 1/2 inch frame. It also sounds good .
I will spray it myself . I used to be a sprayer. I will also just spot prime and spray over the existing paintwork so in the future someone else may want to strip it back to the original finish .


----------



## Mandobob (11 Dec 2020)

biggs682 said:


> So who if anyone on cycle chat bought this last night , I know it wasn't me
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193778242215


It wasn't me but it's a lovely old fame. From the 1960s when they put braze-ons for the rear derailleur cable. Lovely Nervex lugs too.


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## biggs682 (11 Dec 2020)

Mandobob said:


> It wasn't me but it's a lovely old fame. From the 1960s when they put braze-ons for the rear derailleur cable. Lovely Nervex lugs too.


Must admit I did bid but not enough


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (11 Dec 2020)

biggs682 said:


> Must admit I did bid but not enough



Probably the most sensible thing to do. I don't actually think the finish price was super-cheap for a bare frame. I'm well aware it's only a fraction of the price of a new build custom frame, but by the time you've added all the mechanical bits and consumables needed to complete a build, the cost is going to be significantly higher than just buying a complete project bike. There's a reason for the quantity of bare frames on the secondhand market; they are the leftovers from the donors that have had all their mechanicals harvested off them. Despite being the single most expensive part of a quality bike, they attract minimal demand unless of exotic racing origin.


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## Mandobob (2 Jan 2021)

So, to start another aspect, I have recently acquired an old Falcon frame. It is important to me because the badge shows it to be made by Roberts Cycle Industries who only owned Falcon from 1956 to 1957, so this must be from the first year of Falcon production. 
The seat tube will take a 26.6mm seat post which implies plain gauge 531, so I am thinking towards it being a Special or Club Special. It has been brush painted in a rather thick black paint which has at least prevented the dreaded rust from gaining hold. Lovely Nervex lugs too.
I don't know what the fork crown is. Can anyone help?
I now have a 2021 project to start to tackle!


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## Paulus (2 Jan 2021)

Mandobob said:


> So, to start another aspect, I have recently acquired an old Falcon frame. It is important to me because the badge shows it to be made by Roberts Cycle Industries who only owned Falcon from 1956 to 1957, so this must be from the first year of Falcon production.
> The seat tube will take a 26.6mm seat post which implies plain gauge 531, so I am thinking towards it being a Special or Club Special. It has been brush painted in a rather thick black paint which has at least prevented the dreaded rust from gaining hold. Lovely Nervex lugs too.
> I don't know what the fork crown is. Can anyone help?
> I now have a 2021 project to start to tackle!


That's a nice project you have there. It'll take a while to strip all that paint off. though. Good luck.


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## Illaveago (2 Jan 2021)

Mandobob said:


> So, to start another aspect, I have recently acquired an old Falcon frame. It is important to me because the badge shows it to be made by Roberts Cycle Industries who only owned Falcon from 1956 to 1957, so this must be from the first year of Falcon production.
> The seat tube will take a 26.6mm seat post which implies plain gauge 531, so I am thinking towards it being a Special or Club Special. It has been brush painted in a rather thick black paint which has at least prevented the dreaded rust from gaining hold. Lovely Nervex lugs too.
> I don't know what the fork crown is. Can anyone help?
> I now have a 2021 project to start to tackle!


I had noticed that one for sale and thought the badge was old . It's good as we can see it progress.
Try some cellulose thinners and an old toothbrush to try to remove the lovely black paint finish . 
You might be lucky and find some remnants of some transfers .


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## Illaveago (2 Jan 2021)

Mandobob said:


> So, to start another aspect, I have recently acquired an old Falcon frame. It is important to me because the badge shows it to be made by Roberts Cycle Industries who only owned Falcon from 1956 to 1957, so this must be from the first year of Falcon production.
> The seat tube will take a 26.6mm seat post which implies plain gauge 531, so I am thinking towards it being a Special or Club Special. It has been brush painted in a rather thick black paint which has at least prevented the dreaded rust from gaining hold. Lovely Nervex lugs too.
> I don't know what the fork crown is. Can anyone help?
> I now have a 2021 project to start to tackle!


Take a look at the Flying Scot home page . I find that there is a lot of useful information on there. There are some fork crowns from the 50's which look similar .


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## midlife (2 Jan 2021)

It was usually Vagner fork crowns that had the raised triangle on top (others did too) but looks like someone has filed a notch into the point?


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## avecReynolds531 (2 Jan 2021)

Lovely project there. With the Falcon having Nervex bottom bracket & lugs - it's likely it may be a Nervex fork crown too.

Here are some Nervex & Vagner fork crown drawings from catalogues - and a photo of a Liddell frame with a chromed fork crown (said to be Nervex type) that looks a bit like the Falcon.


View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/2653554484/in/set-72157606071900008
/




I had a similar search re fork crown info for this frame below.




All the best with the project.


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## avecReynolds531 (2 Jan 2021)

...forgot to include the link to Classic Lightweights page on Nervex - with interesting information on the fork crown design & popularity: https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/classic_builders/nervex-professional-lugs/


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## Mandobob (4 Jan 2021)

Illaveago said:


> I had noticed that one for sale and thought the badge was old . It's good as we can see it progress.
> Try some cellulose thinners and an old toothbrush to try to remove the lovely black paint finish .
> You might be lucky and find some remnants of some transfers .


Thanks for that tip. I have been out this morning to pick up some thinners and will try it out. There is red paint underneath but whether that is original and whether there are signs of old decals is still to be determined!


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## Mandobob (4 Jan 2021)

avecReynolds531 said:


> View attachment 566910
> 
> Lovely project there. With the Falcon having Nervex bottom bracket & lugs - it's likely it may be a Nervex fork crown too.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all that info. It's great. The Liddell frame almost has it and the green frame is even closer. I have not found a Nervex to match yet so I need to research Vagner some more. Of course, in their early days Falcon used to specially file some of their lugs to be completely unique!


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## Mandobob (8 Jan 2021)

Have now made a start with the cellulose thinners on a rag, especially in the places where I would expect transfers to be. It seems to show no residual transfers at all. The red paint underneath is quite worn and incomplete and also seems to have covered the original head tube badge at some stage. That maybe suggests that the red was an early repaint?




































The 1956 catalogue shows seat tube decoration but no Falcon name other than on the head tube badge! By 1959 there is a Falcon name on the down tube, but in a slightly different format to the common one. It is a bit like the attached picture but has one or two roundels at each end rather than the three lines shown in the picture. 

I am awaiting some feedback from someone with knowledge of early machines before I can decide how to proceed, but any advice is very welcome.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Jan 2021)

I'd just keep scrubbing and rubbing away with the thinners and see what reveals itself. The paint is horrid as it is, so you have nothing to lose. Either you are going to find decals at some stage or you'll get to bare metal and find nothing. At least the thinners method is less destructive than blasting or paint stripping and you won't destroy anything interesting without seeing it first..


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## Mandobob (10 Jan 2021)

Thanks SkipdiverJohn for that advice. I have done just that today and have also carefully removed the head tube badge to reveal - the original factory colour which is copper! There are two pictures, one closely showing the area behind the badge and another showing the contrast between the red under the black and the copper. As I suspected, the red was not the original colour!


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## Mandobob (17 Jan 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Are you sure it's a Falcon-built Falcon? Those seatstays look suspiciously like something built by Carlton to me! I wonder if they indulged in badge-engineering mischief and bought in some of their frames from other makers?


I would be pretty sure it is a real Falcon. This frame became a core part of their upper-middle range, being made with 531 plain gauge and the seat tube cluster like this one. Into the seventies it featured as an Olympic, a San Remo model 80 and a Super Tourist. Different kit on each to suit different markets. Olympics appear to have been made in quite large numbers.


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## midlife (17 Jan 2021)

The wrap round seat cluster used to be used on higher end frames way back as it was light and strong. Carlton / Falcon seemed to crack the method of using them for mass production, particularly Carlton.


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## Charliesniff (30 Jan 2021)

Mid 80's Challenger.


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## Mandobob (30 Jan 2021)

Is that a 1986ish Falcon Challenger 12?


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## Craig Gardner (23 Feb 2021)

Hope this is ok to post, found the forum looking an old friend. Attached are a few pics of my old Falcon training bike form the early 80's which i still ride today over the years a few things have had to be changed but its basically the same.
At the timI i was doing a lot of training with a group in Gloucester including a guy called Doug Sollars who i believe was the Team administrator for the Falcon pro team. I bought the frame and purpose built the bike to my own spec mostly campag with the then brand new Mavic Grey Rims.
I loved riding this bike so much that I often raced it coming 3rd in the Bristol Road club 2 day, winning the Tyne Velo 25.. managed to do a short 22 min 10 and a 55 min 25 nothing by todays standards but reasonable in the day, as you can see its still in use any questions please ask


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## Illaveago (23 Feb 2021)

Craig Gardner said:


> Hope this is ok to post, found the forum looking an old friend. Attached are a few pics of my old Falcon training bike form the early 80's which i still ride today over the years a few things have had to be changed but its basically the same.
> At the timI i was doing a lot of training with a group in Gloucester including a guy called Doug Sollars who i believe was the Team administrator for the Falcon pro team. I bought the frame and purpose built the bike to my own spec mostly campag with the then brand new Mavic Grey Rims.
> I loved riding this bike so much that I often raced it coming 3rd in the Bristol Road club 2 day, winning the Tyne Velo 25.. managed to do a short 22 min 10 and a 55 min 25 nothing by todays standards but reasonable in the day, as you can see its still in use any questions please ask


.
It's nice to see more Falcons . I discovered one lurking underneath a lot of paint .


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Feb 2021)

Illaveago said:


> . It's nice to see more Falcons .



The more old steel bikes kept on the road, the merrier. The previous poster's Falcon is a nice example.


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## Mandobob (25 Feb 2021)

Craig Gardner said:


> Hope this is ok to post, found the forum looking an old friend. Attached are a few pics of my old Falcon training bike form the early 80's which i still ride today over the years a few things have had to be changed but its basically the same.
> At the timI i was doing a lot of training with a group in Gloucester including a guy called Doug Sollars who i believe was the Team administrator for the Falcon pro team. I bought the frame and purpose built the bike to my own spec mostly campag with the then brand new Mavic Grey Rims.
> I loved riding this bike so much that I often raced it coming 3rd in the Bristol Road club 2 day, winning the Tyne Velo 25.. managed to do a short 22 min 10 and a 55 min 25 nothing by todays standards but reasonable in the day, as you can see its still in use any questions please ask


Hi Craig Gardner. That looks a bit like a Professional as it seems to have the Cr-Mo sticker on the seat tube. It is still a great bike and your own records show that.
I am interested that you mention Doug Sollars. I have a 1984 Falcon in Reynolds 531 Professional tubing, purpose built by Terry Dolan who built the pro team bikes. The guy I bought the frame lives in Cheltenham and got it built by Terry to his measurements through Doug Sollars, who he knew and rode with as a teenager. He was called Paul something (Hudson???) . You may have known him.


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## Craig Gardner (25 Feb 2021)

Hi Mandobob,

That's not a name I recognise, I do remember Andy Llewelyn, Phil Griffiths, Gary Crewe and certain other maniacs joining in could be a very hard run at times. 
Interesting you mentioned the Cr-Mo tubing can you tell me a bit more about it never really understood ?


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Feb 2021)

I would imagine if Falcon were using one of the less well-known cro-moly tubesets it would be to keep down production costs. Anyone building a frame for maximum quality reputation would use high end Reynolds or Columbus tubing. Anything else tends to be regarded as "second division", even if the tubing is still perfectly good.


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## Craig Gardner (25 Feb 2021)

That's what I thought Skipdiver makes no sense why they would use it on their Professional !


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## midlife (25 Feb 2021)

Typical Falcon off the wall thinking with cro-mo tubing. Don’t think it was a well known brand like Ishiwata but can’t remember the name at the moment lol.


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## Mandobob (25 Feb 2021)

I am pretty sure it was Ackles and Pollock tubing, which is British (Reynolds also made Cr-Mo tubing). The name comes from Chromium and Molybdenum which are the two primary alloying agents in the steel. It has the same ultimate strength as 531 but loses a bit of strength on brazing. 

Falcon launched two models in CrMo in the late 1970s, the Professional and the SuperPro. Both were equipped with tubs, so were aimed at the club and racing fraternity - serious cyclists, and the SuperPro was fitted with Campag throughout. This was at a time when UK made bikes were about to be overwhelmed by cheaper product from south-east asia and cost competition was rife. Falcon therefore offered a range of bikes at a range of prices to suit the market.

The name Professional did not mean it was their premium bike at the time, which was still the San Remo Equipe, made from Reynolds 531 butted tubing. As a company, Falcon moved away from high-end bikes as the 1980s went on. Ernie Clements left the company im 1982 and after that BMX and mountain bikes became more the fashion. The Professional was nevertheless a well respected bike in its time


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## midlife (25 Feb 2021)

Phoenix tubing rings a bell for the pro and super-pro. As used by Viscount and a few others around the time. The Chrome forks would have been Tange I guess. I’ll have a google later .


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## Craig Gardner (25 Feb 2021)

Thank you Mandobob and Midlife good information, at the time I wasn't into the specs of what things were made of just if it was fast or not !


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (25 Feb 2021)

Mandobob said:


> I am pretty sure it was Ackles and Pollock tubing, which is British (Reynolds also made Cr-Mo tubing). ........
> 
> Falcon launched two models in CrMo in the late 1970s, the Professional and the SuperPro. Both were equipped with tubs, so were aimed at the club and racing fraternity - serious cyclists, and the SuperPro was fitted with Campag throughout.



My understanding though is that after Reynolds took over A & P, they withdrew their Kromo tubing from the cycling market so as not to compete with 531 mang-moly.
I have sometimes wondered if Reynolds 501 was largely based on the recipe for A & P Kromo, when they needed a cheaper tubeset than 531. If you read Reynolds literature, 501 was slightly stronger than generic 4130 cro-moly. It's plausible they dusted off the Kromo recipe and relaunched it either with or without some formulation tweaking.
Very little is really new, after all 753 is heat-treated 531, and Reynolds had been making a heat-treated 531 option in the 1940's!


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## southcoast (25 Feb 2021)

Some time ago I asked a chap that was the workshop manager for falcon in the early eighties and he mentioned Accles and Pollock Tubing.
Also as mentioned by @midlife there is reference to the bikes being made of Phoenix tubing on a viscount chat forum, with chrome Tange fork for the Super Pro.
The generic cro mo badge is often used when companies are mix and matching tubing. which might explain why the badge was used.
Falcon often seemed to use whatever they had to hand during this period. Which might explain why some anomalies like bikes with pro spec sometimes having 27.2 seat tube?


----------



## southcoast (25 Feb 2021)

Craig Gardner said:


> Hope this is ok to post, found the forum looking an old friend. Attached are a few pics of my old Falcon training bike form the early 80's which i still ride today over the years a few things have had to be changed but its basically the same.
> At the timI i was doing a lot of training with a group in Gloucester including a guy called Doug Sollars who i believe was the Team administrator for the Falcon pro team. I bought the frame and purpose built the bike to my own spec mostly campag with the then brand new Mavic Grey Rims.
> I loved riding this bike so much that I often raced it coming 3rd in the Bristol Road club 2 day, winning the Tyne Velo 25.. managed to do a short 22 min 10 and a 55 min 25 nothing by todays standards but reasonable in the day, as you can see its still in use any questions please ask



Nice bike. My Falcon pro is also one of my favourite bikes to ride, responsive and smooth, always seems to be egging me on to go faster.


----------



## Mandobob (25 Feb 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> My understanding though is that after Reynolds took over A & P, they withdrew their Kromo tubing from the cycling market so as not to compete with 531 mang-moly.
> I have sometimes wondered if Reynolds 501 was largely based on the recipe for A & P Kromo, when they needed a cheaper tubeset than 531. If you read Reynolds literature, 501 was slightly stronger than generic 4130 cro-moly. It's plausible they dusted off the Kromo recipe and relaunched it either with or without some formulation tweaking.
> Very little is really new, after all 753 is heat-treated 531, and Reynolds had been making a heat-treated 531 option in the 1940's!


I think, SkipdiverJohn, that is a very reasonable assumption.


----------



## Craig Gardner (26 Feb 2021)

Thanks everyone for some great information


----------



## Bici Colori (21 Jun 2021)

Well here is to keepng this thread going still.....lol

Attached is my restored Falcon Professional.
Original was green like you see on this webpage John's Falcon . Velow

But I decided to modernize mine with modern components and change the colour scheme to a gun metal blue and pearl white for the rear stays.

Took me 4 months to complete balancing work and family and all.

I stripped it down to bare metal and epoxy primered the frame and then used matrix automotive paint and clear.
Got the decals from Lloyds.

I think it turned out rather well and I get a lot of compliments on the bike...........yeah its cool I guess lol.


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## Cycleops (21 Jun 2021)

Very nice @Bici Colori and done in the best possible taste.

BTW welcome to the forum


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## Paulus (21 Jun 2021)

Bici Colori said:


> Well here is to keepng this thread going still.....lol
> 
> Attached is my restored Falcon Professional.
> Original was green like you see on this webpage John's Falcon . Velow
> ...


An excellent job there. I love it.


----------



## southcoast (21 Jun 2021)

Looks a nice finish on the paint job. 
Any makers name on the dropouts? Tell me more about the forks, they don‘t look standard?


----------



## Bici Colori (21 Jun 2021)

southcoast said:


> Looks a nice finish on the paint job.
> Any makers name on the dropouts? Tell me more about the forks, they don‘t look standard?



The frame is all orignial
The front fork is not. I lost the original so I picked this up second hand locally.
I don't know what brand it is but I can tell you its 4130 chromoly

The components on the bike.....

Salsa compact bar
tektro brakes levers
Specialized Bridge saddle with original campy seat post
Shimano 105 brakes and wheel hubs
Alex R390 rims
Campy Xspeed 10 speed Centaur crank 53-39
Shimano xt mtb pedal clips
Shimano Ultegra RD and Microshift indexed downtube shiters for 10 speed
Dura-ace 11-28 cassette
Liv bar tape and falcon printed bar end caps

:-)


----------



## Bici Colori (21 Jun 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Very nice @Bici Colori and done in the best possible taste.
> 
> BTW welcome to the forum



Thanks so much


----------



## Bici Colori (21 Jun 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Very nice @Bici Colori and done in the best possible taste.
> 
> BTW welcome to the forum



Thanks so much.
I really love it.

I am so hooked on restoring old bikes now...lol

Looking at acquiring an Olmo now for my next project


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## carpenter (22 Jun 2021)

really looking forward to seeing it


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## satkin (22 Jun 2021)

I’m doing up my old 1978 Falcon Black Diamond. I’ve had it since I was a teenager.
https://falconrestorebike.wordpress.com/


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## Mandobob (22 Jun 2021)

Bici Colori said:


> Well here is to keepng this thread going still.....lol
> 
> Attached is my restored Falcon Professional.
> Original was green like you see on this webpage John's Falcon . Velow
> ...


That's a really thoughtful combination of new components which somehow resonate with the spirit of the original bike. Really well done and a high standard of finish too. Brilliant! Great to see a quality frame given a new lease of life after some forty years. Steel is so real.


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## midlife (22 Jun 2021)

satkin said:


> I’m doing up my old 1978 Falcon Black Diamond. I’ve had it since I was a teenager.
> https://falconrestorebike.wordpress.com/



Love it, used to sell them BITD I the bike shop I worked in


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## southcoast (23 Jun 2021)

satkin said:


> I’m doing up my old 1978 Falcon Black Diamond. I’ve had it since I was a teenager.
> https://falconrestorebike.wordpress.com/



I like that, looks like an old friend. 
Good website too.


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## Mandobob (24 Jun 2021)

And here is an update with the refurbished head badge.


----------



## Bici Colori (25 Jun 2021)

Mandobob said:


> And here is an update with the refurbished head badge.
> View attachment 595578



Wow,
Great job!!
Looks awesome


----------



## carpenter (27 Jun 2021)

Superb - DIY ? (if so you could set up a business in badge restoration )


----------



## Cycleops (27 Jun 2021)

You’ve smudged a bit to the left of the F. Only kidding, great job.


----------



## Brummagem (21 Jul 2021)

New to this forum. I have picked up a 1963 San Remo, will hopefully be able to post some pictures soon. When did the old Falcon downtube decal end? My bike has the wrong decals.


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## Paulus (22 Jul 2021)

Brummagem said:


> New to this forum. I have picked up a 1963 San Remo, will hopefully be able to post some pictures soon. When did the old Falcon downtube decal end? My bike has the wrong decals.


Is yours like this one? Found this on the net.


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## Brummagem (23 Jul 2021)

Paulus said:


> Is yours like this one? Found this on the net.
> View attachment 600397


Mine has been over painted. The previous owners says it was dark blue with Chrome forks (like the 1960 catalogue). Frame number is unclear. Last number maybe a 3. He bought it in 1963. Dark blue was the old racing colour. Not sure when they changed their racing colour to sky blue. Anybody know?


----------



## Brummagem (23 Jul 2021)

Here is my bike. 5 speed. 1963.
1 former keeper. 
26.4 seat tube. 
I love to know the history of a bike....Derek the owner is a retired MOD scientist, who lives in Worcestershire. He bought the bike new when he was 16. It cost £30 (checking adverts at the time, he's correct!). The money was given to him by his grandmother. Turns out that he used to live in Kings Heath, Birmingham (where I live) and his family lived on Woodthorpe Rd, which is the road parallel to me, so it's come home!!! Interestingly, Falcons were made in various places, including Birmingham. He said the bike was bought from a shop in Balsall Common, and he thinks the shop owner was called Brown ( I need to find out the shop's details). Unfortunately I had to pay for the bike, which was advertised as frame only.
When I arrived, the Brooks saddle was still on it, and the seatpost was loose. Derek had found the original Weinmann quick release brake levers (costly in themselves) , and Weinmannn Vanquer 999 brakes. The stem was stiff, but now free
Derek had the bike resprayed in the seventies. He said it used to be dark blue, with chrome forks. Decals are not correct and there is no badge. 
I figured I could make money by breaking the bike, but with nearly everything there, and the history, I think it will be a keeper. 
Not seen a headset like it. Wheels and hubs are mismatched. My guess is the front has been changed - looks like it's a Weinmann alloy badged as a Milremo.
Dark blue was the old racing colour. When did it change?


----------



## Brummagem (23 Jul 2021)

1960 photo with the dark blue coloured racing bikes


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## Mandobob (23 Jul 2021)

1970 pro team photo. They were dark blue in 1963/4.

*ALBERT HITCHEN ON THE COVER OF THE SPORTING CYCLIST MAY 1964*

Magazine is dated May '64 but when the photo was taken is not recorded, it could have been earlier that year or more likely in '63.





The frame is probably in the darker blue finish and has chrome headlugs and fork crown, fitted with Campag Record headset (notice the small Campagnolo label sewn onto his jersey) and no braze-ons except for a 'stop' on the down tube to prevent the gear levers slipping down. Looking at the scratches on the headtube just behind the top lug it would appear that the chroming went some way along the top tube.

As Campag didn't have their brakes yet he is using Weinmann centre pulls with the quick-release style levers and the big cable adjusters.


----------



## Brummagem (24 Jul 2021)

Mandobob said:


> View attachment 600612
> 
> 1970 pro team photo. They were dark blue in 1963/4.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mandobob (24 Jul 2021)

Here is the 1964 team with Albert Hitchen on the left with what looks like that same jersey. Can't really see the frame colour but it seems darkish to me.


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## midlife (24 Jul 2021)

I see Billy Holmes on the right, born in Hull like me, 85 years old


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## Brummagem (27 Jul 2021)

A Falcon for a bag of sand. 
Searching for a headbadge for my 1963 Falcon, I saw this. You can't save them all... 531 frame of unknown vintage.


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## midlife (27 Jul 2021)

Long seat stay caps remind me of a Super Pro with replacement forks, the design and rake of the are not typical of a "racing bike"


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## Mandobob (28 Jul 2021)

Shame to spoil a 531 frame. You could get money for that. There are plenty of non-Reynolds frames from their lesser models about. The same metal badge you need was used from 1958 to about 1978.


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## southcoast (28 Jul 2021)

That’s an unusual bike with that mix of seat stay cap and long stays. Looks long wheelbase if the forks are original.
Would be surprised if it has a metal head badge.


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## Mandobob (28 Jul 2021)

The seat tube, which looks original, is just like the very late 70s very early 80s Super Tourist - hence the frame shape? It could easily have had drops fitted.


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## southcoast (28 Jul 2021)

Mandobob said:


> The seat tube, which looks original, is just like the very late 70s very early 80s Super Tourist - hence the frame shape? It could easily have had drops fitted.



Good call on Super Tourist. That would also tie up with the wheelbase and 531 sticker.


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## midlife (28 Jul 2021)

Not sure it's a 82,88,89 model tourist / super tourist? Mind you my memory isn't what it used to be lol


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## 93Rangie (30 Jul 2021)

southcoast said:


> Lets see those vintage Falcon road bikes. Here is mine to start the thread


@southcoast Just about to start a rebuild of a Mixte Frame Diamond Black Ernie Clements…….


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## southcoast (30 Jul 2021)

93Rangie said:


> @southcoast Just about to start a rebuild of a Mixte Frame Diamond Black Ernie Clements…….



Great to see another Falcon being saved.


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## Mandobob (31 Jul 2021)

Are you going period correct or with technical upgrades?


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## Mandobob (31 Jul 2021)

So, I have (yet another) a new project!


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## midlife (31 Jul 2021)

Oooohh! That's nice . Looks like a repainted and updated San Remo Equipe from my era?


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## southcoast (31 Jul 2021)

Mandobob said:


> So, I have (yet another) a new project!
> View attachment 601846



Nice, I saw that for sale and was tempted myself. You got a bargain there.


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## 93Rangie (31 Jul 2021)

Mandobob said:


> Are you going period correct or with technical upgrades?


That’s a really good question @Mandobob I originally bought to upgrade the bike for my partner as she has always ridden more modern machinery but now tempted to restore with period correct components. What’s the view…..retromod or period correct components from the forum ?


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## Mandobob (31 Jul 2021)

southcoast said:


> Nice, I saw that for sale and was tempted myself. You got a bargain there.


I certainly did. I took the chance on it and facilitated a city break in Lincoln with my partner to pick it up! 

The frame is a little ropey but I think I will just treat the rust patches and wax it, so its still original. It is cleaning up nicely and I have some Super Record brakes to go on it. The chrome isn't too bad and the crumpled cooking foil technique has brought it up beautifully. The wheels are not original but I will keep them as they are.

It has "brev Campagnolo" dropouts which date it to probably 1978/79. My dealer price lists show the last time it was included on a price list was November 1979, so it seems quite a late one.


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## southcoast (31 Jul 2021)

Mandobob said:


> I certainly did. I took the chance on it and facilitated a city break in Lincoln with my partner to pick it up!
> 
> The frame is a little ropey but I think I will just treat the rust patches and wax it, so its still original. It is cleaning up nicely and I have some Super Record brakes to go on it. The chrome isn't too bad and the crumpled cooking foil technique has brought it up beautifully. The wheels are not original but I will keep them as they are.
> 
> It has "brev Campagnolo" dropouts which date it to probably 1978/79. My dealer price lists show the last time it was included on a price list was November 1979, so it seems quite a late one.



I would say you are probably about right for the date of the bike, as the seller did send me some detailed pictures when it was up for sale. You can probably get a date code off the Gran Sport chainset?
Interestingly the chrome seems to extend a long way along the top tube under the paint?
Good idea to keep it as original as possible.
I have publications that show the 76 for for sale in 80, 82 and 83. Also an early eighties brochure picture of one. How difficult they would have been to get is another matter lol


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## midlife (31 Jul 2021)

Chrome platers just dunked the front end in the solution, they were more picky mid 70's when the price of chrome went up and many makers like Holdsworth stopped.


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## Mandobob (31 Jul 2021)

southcoast said:


> I would say you are probably about right for the date of the bike, as the seller did send me some detailed pictures when it was up for sale. You can probably get a date code off the Gran Sport chainset?
> Interestingly the chrome seems to extend a long way along the top tube under the paint?
> Good idea to keep it as original as possible.
> I have publications that show the 76 for for sale in 80, 82 and 83. Also an early eighties brochure picture of one. How difficult they would have been to get is another matter lol


The chainset is dated 1981 (although it is a GS not an SR). I have Falcon dealers price lists dated 1 April 1980, 25 June 1980, 15 September 1980 and 5 January 1981. The first three have a San Remo section and none of the four have model 76 on offer. I also have what I think is a 1982 catalogue (the one with the Vigorelli in it) and also the 1983 Elswick Falcon catalogue and neither of them show the 76 either. The last dealers price lists I have with it in are the 1979 Coventry Eagle one and a 9 November 1979 Falcon one. 

Can you offer any help? Maybe need to discuss offline?


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## southcoast (1 Aug 2021)

I’ll have a look for the information and get back to you.


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## midlife (1 Aug 2021)

There was someone on Retrobike that worked for Falcon during this period, think he was called Bikemeister but not seen him post for a long time.


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## Mandobob (1 Aug 2021)

midlife said:


> There was someone on Retrobike that worked for Falcon during this period, think he was called Bikemeister but not seen him post for a long time.


Thanks Midlife, I hope he has perfect recall of dates!


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## midlife (1 Aug 2021)

It might have been Bikemeister2000, looks like my memory needs a boost too.


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## Brummagem (6 Aug 2021)

*https://pezcyclingnews.com/tag/falcon/
Albert Hitchen photo that I've not seen before..*


----------



## Mandobob (7 Aug 2021)

And a great one of his Falcon bike!


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## Mandobob (17 Aug 2021)

Everything cleaned, polished and greased. Have treated it to new brake hoods, fitted appropriate brakes and rear derailleur. Almost ready for bar tape which I will do after more extensive road testing for comfort and fit.

Pretty pleased with the result - especially the state of the chrome.


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## midlife (17 Aug 2021)

Fab


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## southcoast (17 Aug 2021)

Looks great, polished up much better than I expected.
Bargain of the year lol.


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## Chris2021 (18 Sep 2021)

Mandobob said:


> And here is an update with the refurbished head badge.
> View attachment 595578



Awesome resto! Haven't seen that style of Falcon badge before. Is the mounting hole spacing the same 2 -1/4" as the later style badge?


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## Mandobob (20 Sep 2021)

This badge would only have been used between 1958 when Ernie Clements started the Falcon marque working for Roberts Cycle Industries (RCI) and early 1958 when the company, including the Falcon marque, was bought by Coventry Eagle.

It has the same 2 - 1/4" hole spacing as the later badges. 

The 1959 catalogue shows a black and white design for a similar badge to mine but with CEC (Coventry Eagle Cycles) instead of RCI. I have not seen a real one like that. 

By 1963 their catalogue shows a black and white design with the Ernie Clements signature at the bottom which was slightly altered to become the metal badge that adorned Falcon head tubes until about 1978. At that time Elswick Hopper bought Ernie Clements out and made him a Director of EH. After that date they used foil adhesive head badges - probably as a modernisation / economy measure.


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## Chris2021 (24 Sep 2021)

Mandobob said:


> This badge would only have been used between 1958 when Ernie Clements started the Falcon marque working for Roberts Cycle Industries (RCI) and early 1958 when the company, including the Falcon marque, was bought by Coventry Eagle.
> 
> It has the same 2 - 1/4" hole spacing as the later badges.
> 
> ...



Thank you Mandobob, very informative! 
I have been on the lookout for a head badge that would match the 1-1/2 hole spacing on my old falcon, now I know it isn't an RCI or CEC style badge.


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## Pedal pusher (25 Sep 2021)

Mandobob said:


> Everything cleaned, polished and greased. Have treated it to new brake hoods, fitted appropriate brakes and rear derailleur. Almost ready for bar tape which I will do after more extensive road testing for comfort and fit.
> 
> Pretty pleased with the result - especially the state of the chrome.
> 
> View attachment 604747


Love that colour 👌


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## Cycleops (27 Sep 2021)

Pedal pusher said:


> Love that colour 👌


Metallic blue is the only colour for a bike, especially vintage ones.


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## Hover Fly (27 Sep 2021)

Correction, metallic blue is the only colour for a bike that isn’t ruby flamboyant.


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## Cycleops (27 Sep 2021)

Hover Fly said:


> Correction, metallic blue is the only colour for a bike that isn’t ruby flamboyant.


Just as long as the owner is flamboyant too


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## biggs682 (18 Oct 2021)

Anyone watching this Falcon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174979184632?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## Illaveago (18 Oct 2021)

Honest Gov it's not me !


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## Illaveago (18 Oct 2021)

Page 16 ,the picture of Bert Hitchen's bike has the same fork crown as the one on the bay .


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## biggs682 (18 Oct 2021)

Illaveago said:


> Honest Gov it's not me !


And we believe you


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## Mandobob (19 Oct 2021)

biggs682 said:


> Anyone watching this Falcon
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174979184632?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDXT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Yes, it's an early model 80 by the look of it. 531 plain gauge so not ultra light. The exceptional feature is the seat tube transfer which is beautiful, albeit faded. Mainly original parts although the back wheel may not be.


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## biggs682 (19 Oct 2021)

Mandobob said:


> Yes, it's an early model 80 by the look of it. 531 plain gauge so not ultra light. The exceptional feature is the seat tube transfer which is beautiful, albeit faded. Mainly original parts although the back wheel may not be.


Interesting thanks


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## Mandobob (19 Oct 2021)

biggs682 said:


> Interesting thanks


Are you going for it?


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## biggs682 (19 Oct 2021)

Mandobob said:


> Are you going for it?


No I have enough older bikes at the moment thanks


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## midlife (19 Oct 2021)

Bit too old for me too, I'm from the drillium era lol


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## andyscherer (10 Nov 2021)

I've recently acquired this San Remo from a fellow that's retiring from the road. According to the seller it was purchased new by his father-in-law about 1974 in Vermont, and given to him a few years later. The transfers are recent, and it may have been resprayed in the 70's. I haven't located the serial number, perhaps that's why. In any event, it's quite handsome and rides beautifully. I suspect it's older than the purchase year but I have no way to verify that. Any questions or comments are welcome - cheers!


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## Mandobob (10 Nov 2021)

andyscherer said:


> I've recently acquired this San Remo from a fellow that's retiring from the road. According to the seller it was purchased new by his father-in-law about 1974 in Vermont, and given to him a few years later. The transfers are recent, and it may have been resprayed in the 70's. I haven't located the serial number, perhaps that's why. In any event, it's quite handsome and rides beautifully. I suspect it's older than the purchase year but I have no way to verify that. Any questions or comments are welcome - cheers!
> 
> That is a very nice bike indeed. I have a number of Falcons myself, including several different San Remos, and can comment on your bike.
> 
> ...


----------



## midlife (10 Nov 2021)

Nice , however it has track forks on a road bike and not the San Remo Equipe which has a different frame. Good to see the Falcon total lack of braze ons lol


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## andyscherer (10 Nov 2021)

Mandobob said:


> To check if it is a model 76 San Remo measure the seat pin. If it is 27.2 it will be a San Remo and if it is 26.6 then it will be a model 78 Olympic or a model 80 San Remo frame.


I appreciate your insights, @Mandobob, now I _really_ must locate my calipers! Another oddity of this bike is its round section forks.


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## midlife (10 Nov 2021)

As mentioned the forks are from a track bike and are not original to the frame unless Falcon played its usual trick of using whatever was lying around at the time lol


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## andyscherer (10 Nov 2021)

I suspect the latter. They came with the bike and match this description from a 1972 magazine review, down to the fender eyelets:
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13967
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13971


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## midlife (10 Nov 2021)

Is that an American publication. ? I don't ever recall a Falcon UK road frame with track forks. It was trendy at the time to have TT frames with round track forks. Not good with heavy front braking though. Thank goodness we never intended on braking and had the Weinmann 500's to prove it lol.


----------



## andyscherer (10 Nov 2021)

midlife said:


> Is that an American publication. ? I don't ever recall a Falcon UK road frame with track forks. It was trendy at the time to have TT frames with round track forks. Not good with heavy front braking though. Thank goodness we never intended on braking and had the Weinmann 500's to prove it lol.


Yes, this is American... "Bicycling" magazine. "Send it to the States, they'll buy anything!"


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## Mandobob (11 Nov 2021)

andyscherer said:


> Yes, this is American... "Bicycling" magazine. "Send it to the States, they'll buy anything!"


Falcon had a massive sales drive to the states in 1971 to 1973 and that article, which I have a copy of, was in the middle of that period. Looking at a later USA catalogue ( I don't have one for this period) the specs for USA bound bikes are a little different from the english spec. It was mainly their top and middle quality ranges that were offered in the US.


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## avecReynolds531 (11 Nov 2021)

andyscherer said:


> I suspect the latter. They came with the bike and match this description from a 1972 magazine review, down to the fender eyelets:
> https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13967
> https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13971


Thanks for posting this interesting review.


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## andyscherer (14 Nov 2021)

Mandobob said:


> To check if it is a model 76 San Remo measure the seat pin. If it is 27.2 it will be a San Remo and if it is 26.6 then it will be a model 78 Olympic or a model 80 San Remo frame.








I still can’t locate my calipers so I measured the post as 27mm by using an adjustable spanner, and then there’s this. So that points to model 76, or at least 531 butted tubing.


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## Mandobob (15 Nov 2021)

andyscherer said:


> View attachment 617681
> 
> I still can’t locate my calipers so I measured the post as 27mm by using an adjustable spanner, and then there’s this. So that points to model 76, or at least 531 butted tubing.


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## Mandobob (15 Nov 2021)

That's a great sign. It definitely, in my opinion, makes it a San Remo. The seat pin being Campagnolo, as is the seat pin tightening bolt, shows it has a real high quality spec. 

To further confirm its origin, the hubs look like Campagnolo and the lock nuts for the bearings should have a year date on them. Also, the brakes look like weinmann so on the back of the arms there will also be a date of manufacture. It's probably easier to dismantle the brake rather han the hub cones so I would do that first.

I seriously suggest you do check those dates because you mentioned it may have been resprayed. My theory is that it could be a an even rarer 1960s model 90 San Remo MkII, for which I have evidence that it was in production between 1963 and 1970 and which which did have the round tube wrapover seat cluster detail like yours. It was also sold with clincher wheels, which yours seems to have.

I would be interested to hear how you get on!


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## andyscherer (15 Nov 2021)

This is exciting news! I'm not familiar with the Mk II/III variants, what else can you share about them? Based on what I've read I also have a sense that the frame is older than 1970's. I have copies of older photos of this bike over the decades that I'll upload. It has different components in some of them so it's uncertain what's original to it right now. The owner also mentioned somewhere that it may have been silver originally. 

I'm keeping it along with other bikes at our house in upstate New York, there's little room for it here in Manhattan. That said, once the winter sets in, I expect to bring it here to strip it down for cleaning and tuning so I'll be able to get a close look at date codes then. I feel like the hubs are probably original so that may be helpful when I get to them.

Cheers,
Andy


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## andyscherer (15 Nov 2021)

If these older photos shed any light on which model my Falcon may be...here they are.

This photo is dated 1976 and I believe it shows the original livery and components. Too bad the pump and drilled chainwheels didn't make it through the years.





Too fuzzy for much detail, also dated 1976 atop Mt. Washington in New Hampshire, USA. Same transfers, bigger rear cluster!




Undated. Presumably after a respray with different transfers, sidepull brakes and different wheels. Looks like Nuovo Tipo hubs.




Closer look at the front end and fork.





The seat cluster lug points show careful tapering in this 2016 photo taken when the current transfers were applied. They appear to be closer to the originals.


----------



## Sticky Green (28 Dec 2021)

Here's my Falcon Black Diamond bought for £60. It was in a real state so I decided to restore it in team banana colours. Please don't hate me.


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## Mandobob (28 Dec 2021)

So you've taken it about a decade forwards! The rake of the front forks is a bit of a giveaway but its now a highly usable bike. Well done.


----------



## Astore (4 Jan 2022)

I'm keeping half an eye open for a Falcon Majorca. I had one brand-new when I was at College (1979 - 81) which replaced a new Peugeot Sport that was so badly built I rejected it under guarantee. The Majorca was a brilliant bike in comparison and after College it took me to my first 2 real jobs and was used for a lot of weekend touring. It did get a few upgrades along the way with gearing better suited to my hilly commute, Suntour BL GT derailleurs and a Sanyo Dynapower. I eventually traded it in for a Carlton Super Course.

How it looked when I got it...





How it ended up...





I currently have a "gas pipe" Falcon Eddy Merckx that was given to me recently. Not sure if it will see the road again as it's been subjected to some spectacular bodgery at some time which may make it an uneconomical proposition.


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## Mandobob (5 Jan 2022)

Astore said:


> I'm keeping half an eye open for a Falcon Majorca. I had one brand-new when I was at College (1979 - 81) which replaced a new Peugeot Sport that was so badly built I rejected it under guarantee. The Majorca was a brilliant bike in comparison and after College it took me to my first 2 real jobs and was used for a lot of weekend touring. It did get a few upgrades along the way with gearing better suited to my hilly commute, Suntour BL GT derailleurs and a Sanyo Dynapower. I eventually traded it in for a Carlton Super Course.
> 
> How it looked when I got it...
> View attachment 625001
> ...


I wouldn't be too dismissive of the Falcon Eddy Merckx bikes as some of them were well built and reasonably specc'd. The 
Model 102: SUPER COMPETITION Eddy Merckx and the Model 104: GIRO D'ITALIA Eddy Merckx were both built with Reynolds double butted 531 and the Model 106: KERMESSE Eddy Merckx Model 108/109: CLUB SPECIAL Eddy Merckx were both Reynolds 531 plain gauge.

I don't know what model you have but it could be worth doing up. Don't tar all of the Eddy Merckx models withthe same brush!


----------



## Astore (8 Jan 2022)

Mandobob said:


> I wouldn't be too dismissive of the Falcon Eddy Merckx bikes as some of them were well built and reasonably specc'd. The
> Model 102: SUPER COMPETITION Eddy Merckx and the Model 104: GIRO D'ITALIA Eddy Merckx were both built with Reynolds double butted 531 and the Model 106: KERMESSE Eddy Merckx Model 108/109: CLUB SPECIAL Eddy Merckx were both Reynolds 531 plain gauge.
> 
> I don't know what model you have but it could be worth doing up. Don't tar all of the Eddy Merckx models withthe same brush!


I'm aware that the Falcon Merckx bikes came in different flavours. However, this was difinitely the "Christmas Catalogue" model; basic Huret derailleurs and steel wheels. At some stage it has had replacement forks, which turned out to have the wrong size bearing race - a situation rectified by over-tightening. The steerer tube is bent and I'll leave you to take a look at the state of the crank. Oh, and the cranks were different lengths. If I can find a suitable front fork, I have the bits to build it up. At the moment it's in bits in the shed.


----------



## Bici Colori (7 Feb 2022)

The Falcon Professional I restored in the spring of 2021 and I am dying to ride her again!! I'm really itching for warmer weather to arrive!!

Jaguar Metallic Blue with Pearl White for the rear stays.
5 coats of clear coat.
The frame had a couple of minor dents and I filled them in with Bondo
Original Campy seat post (which was sold with this model back in the 70's).
10 speed setup and had to widen the rear stays to accommodate the rear hub/cassette.
Campy Centaur crank
Shimano 105 brakes
Shimano DuraAce rear cassette
Shimano Ultegra Rear Derailleur
Microshift Indexed downtube shifters and front derailleur
Specialized Bridge Seat
Replica stickers from Lloyds in England
liv bar tape
Shimano MTB style XT pedal clips
I used Alex R390 rims as I ride this in the city so wanted something tuff along with affordable..... really nice compromise.
I rode it last year and got all kinds of inquires and compliments!
I even got people asking me to restore their bikes!


----------



## FrothNinja (7 Feb 2022)

Does Mrs FN's early 90s Rhapsody count as vintage/classic?
I've never actually ridden it.


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## Mandobob (8 Feb 2022)

That's a great bit of work. The picture is too pixellated to see whether it has top tube brazings for the brake cable. If it has them it will be 1978 or 1979 probably. They started fitting them in the 1980s and this model ran, I think, until 1983.

Originally it would have been fitted with a 6-speed block and the drilled type of SR chainrings.


----------



## Illaveago (25 Aug 2022)

It's gone quiet on here !
Hasn't anyone bought a Falcon recently ?


----------



## biggs682 (25 Aug 2022)

This one's for sale on market place

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1289778708497183/?ref=facebook_story_share


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## Mandobob (29 Aug 2022)

Illaveago said:


> It's gone quiet on here !
> Hasn't anyone bought a Falcon recently ?



Yes, I have just bought a curious Falcon Super Tourist with a frame that looks remarkably like San Remo, complete with flat wrapover seat cluster. The paintwork, although with surface rust is clearly original. 5-speed with the gear lever on the top tube. It appears to be 1970/73. Currently being cleaned and polished for in-town use.


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## midlife (29 Aug 2022)

Pics would be nice . Sounds like unwrapping Falcon bikes delivered to the bike shop in the 70’s. Never knew what was actually going to be under the cardboard lol

Could well have been a shortage and someone simply lifted a frame from the San Remo line behind the girls back (all the frame builders were women iirc) and used that !


----------



## Illaveago (29 Aug 2022)

I


Mandobob said:


> Yes, I have just bought a curious Falcon Super Tourist with a frame that looks remarkably like San Remo, complete with flat wrapover seat cluster. The paintwork, although with surface rust is clearly original. 5-speed with the gear lever on the top tube. It appears to be 1970/73. Currently being cleaned and polished for in-town use.


I've gone over to the Viking side for a while !


----------



## Mandobob (30 Aug 2022)

So a few pics. Whole bike, nice period chainset, original Reynolds transfer, mucky derailleur, which turned out to be this period gem - a gran sport - not the later nuovo kind.


----------



## Illaveago (30 Aug 2022)

Mandobob said:


> So a few pics. Whole bike, nice period chainset, original Reynolds transfer, mucky derailleur, which turned out to be this period gem - a gran sport - not the later nuovo kind.
> 
> 
> View attachment 659333
> ...



All of that oil and grease has kept it from rusting .


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## Illaveago (30 Aug 2022)

I would have thought that the colour scheme and graphics would place it in the 60's.


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## iandg (30 Aug 2022)

Not the best pic - used to ride one in the 90s


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## midlife (30 Aug 2022)

Way before my time lol. The 531 decal in the greeny colour had gone by the 60's had ended.

Classy with the brazings for the cables, most unlike a Falcon!


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## Mandobob (30 Aug 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I would have thought that the colour scheme and graphics would place it in the 60's.



The rear derailleur was made from 1955-1973 and the Reynolds 531 transfer is 1952-1973. By 1974 most of the better Falcon models had cotterless cranks and these are cottered. So latest date is about 1973. The graphics for the Falcon name on the down tube and the omicron band on the seat tube are on 1970 literature (and later). I have a gap in my catalogues and adverts for this model between 1963 and 1970, during which time the graphics changed. So, overall it's probably about the turn of the decades 1960s/1970s.

If anyone can help with evidence of the date of change in font style, I would be really grateful to see it. 

As all you Falcon appreciators know, the frame number is no help whatsoever!!


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## midlife (30 Aug 2022)

I wonder if the cranks or chainrings have a date mark?


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## biggs682 (30 Aug 2022)

If that's a William's crank then it will be date coded using this https://www.classiclightweights.co....-williams-crank-and-chainring-identification/


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## Illaveago (30 Aug 2022)

Mandobob said:


> The rear derailleur was made from 1955-1973 and the Reynolds 531 transfer is 1952-1973. By 1974 most of the better Falcon models had cotterless cranks and these are cottered. So latest date is about 1973. The graphics for the Falcon name on the down tube and the omicron band on the seat tube are on 1970 literature (and later). I have a gap in my catalogues and adverts for this model between 1963 and 1970, during which time the graphics changed. So, overall it's probably about the turn of the decades 1960s/1970s.
> 
> If anyone can help with evidence of the date of change in font style, I would be really grateful to see it.
> 
> As all you Falcon appreciators know, the frame number is no help whatsoever!!



I can remember a Falcon Black Diamond in purple at school which had Omicron on the cross bar and seat tube , that would be about 1967. I can always remember that bike as it looked stunning in purple, black and chrome .


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## Illaveago (30 Aug 2022)

Hadn't Falcon moved to Lincolnshire by 1970 ?


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## midlife (30 Aug 2022)

Carlton had imichrome decals starting in the 60's too.


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## Illaveago (30 Aug 2022)

Falcon moved to Lincolnshire in 1968 so I would have thought that the decals post that date would say that on them .


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## Mandobob (31 Aug 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I would have thought that the colour scheme and graphics would place it in the 60's.



So, after much cleaning and searching on the Williams chainwheel I eventually found their EBW and trademark sword. Underneath are the year letters ZH which makes it a model C1200 made in 1967 (the last year that model was made). So you were right. Bike possibly built 1967/8.


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## Mandobob (31 Aug 2022)

biggs682 said:


> If that's a William's crank then it will be date coded using this https://www.classiclightweights.co....-williams-crank-and-chainring-identification/



And thanks for the link which eventually led me to an answer!


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## Illaveago (31 Aug 2022)

Mandobob said:


> So, after much cleaning and searching on the Williams chainwheel I eventually found their EBW and trademark sword. Underneath are the year letters ZH which makes it a model C1200 made in 1967 (the last year that model was made). So you were right. Bike possibly built 1967/8.



I just thought it looked like 60's colour scheme . What are the seat stays like ? Are they pencil thin ?

So it could have been made just before their move to Lincolnshire ?

It is a bit of a puzzle . Should it have the long spear point lugs ?


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## andyscherer (23 Sep 2022)

I've stripped my mystery early 1970's(?) 531 frame for a respray, thought I'd share these pics of the bare frame and round section fork before it's covered up again.


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## Hover Fly (25 Sep 2022)

Mandobob said:


> So, after much cleaning and searching on the Williams chainwheel I eventually found their EBW and trademark sword. Underneath are the year letters ZH which makes it a model C1200 made in 1967 (the last year that model was made). So you were right. Bike possibly built 1967/8.



Not a C1200, which has a large BCD. Trouble is C34 which I _think_ that is went out of production in the very early 60s. Perhaps a frame fitted with the buyer’s own parts? Nicklin cranks fitted with Williams chain wheel?


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## Mandobob (26 Sep 2022)

Hover Fly said:


> Not a C1200, which has a large BCD. Trouble is C34 which I _think_ that is went out of production in the very early 60s. Perhaps a frame fitted with the buyer’s own parts? Nicklin cranks fitted with Williams chain wheel?



Wow, thanks for that. I will now have to do some serious research


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## ren531 (1 Oct 2022)

Here's my Falcon, definitely not high end, but an 70s-80s cro-mo 10 speed "Streak" had the frame in my attic decades don't even remember were I got it only kept it because its a very useful to me 25inch frame and I decided to make a single speed /fixed wheel bike with it, couldn't believe how well it scrubbed up and it's also a very nice ride too.


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## Mandobob (3 Oct 2022)

ren531 said:


> Here's my Falcon, definitely not high end, but an 70s-80s cro-mo 10 speed "Streak" had the frame in my attic decades don't even remember were I got it only kept it because its a very useful to me 25inch frame and I decided to make a single speed /fixed wheel bike with it, couldn't believe how well it scrubbed up and it's also a very nice ride too.



That's made a nice ride! I would date it to the end of the 1980s. They were usually made of Falcon 770 steel but if yours has a Cr-Mo label then it's unusual.


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## andyscherer (4 Oct 2022)

Update: I’ve used spray.bike primer and it came out well. Hoping to put their Coldharbour Lane paint on it next weekend. Transfers are on the way from Cyclomondo, and then it will get a gloss clear coat. Trying to this done before it’s too cold to spray!


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## ren531 (4 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> That's made a nice ride! I would date it to the end of the 1980s. They were usually made of Falcon 770 steel but if yours has a Cr-Mo label then it's unusual.



There isnt an actual cro-mo sticker on it so I think you will be correct about the Falcon 770 steel, it certainly isnt heavy and is a well balanced ride.


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## midlife (4 Oct 2022)

andyscherer said:


> Update: I’ve used spray.bike primer and it came out well. Hoping to put their Coldharbour Lane paint on it next weekend. Transfers are on the way from Cyclomondo, and then it will get a gloss clear coat. Trying to this done before it’s too cold to spray!
> View attachment 663315
> 
> 
> ...



Thats really very close to the old Falcon "san-remo" blue


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## andyscherer (4 Oct 2022)

midlife said:


> Thats really very close to the old Falcon "san-remo" blue



I thought so as well.


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## Jameshow (4 Oct 2022)

What is Falcon 770 steel?! 

501 level 531? Higher??


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## Mandobob (5 Oct 2022)

770 is regular steel tube used for models lower in price than those with cr-mo, 501 or 531.


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## andyscherer (7 Oct 2022)

Here's the respray. I'm pleased with the color and quality. I tacked the headbadge in place as a reference. It's just a bit lighter than it appears in these photos. When the transfers arrive I'll place them and finish with a coat or two of clear gloss. I'll polish up all the components while that cures and then rebuild.




















I've sanded down the indents in the head tube and top lug and resprayed that bit.


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> 770 is regular steel tube used for models lower in price than those with cr-mo, 501 or 531.



So effectively, it's Falcon's way of branding a plain hi-tensile frame, just like Raleigh used to refer to theirs as 18-23?


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## Mandobob (8 Oct 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> So effectively, it's Falcon's way of branding a plain hi-tensile frame, just like Raleigh used to refer to theirs as 18-23?



Nicely put!


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## Mandobob (9 Oct 2022)

So, almost at the end of this lengthy project. A very early Falcon, identifiable by its rare badge showing it made by RCI who Ernie Clements worked for when he came up with the Falcon marque. So it is pre March 1958. Frame rescued after having been hand painted black! All the transfers were made scifically for this project and copied from period catalogue. I still have a few little tweaks to finish it but gave it a short test ride this afternoon.


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## Illaveago (9 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> So, almost at the end of this lengthy project. A very early Falcon, identifiable by its rare badge showing it made by RCI who Ernie Clements worked for when he came up with the Falcon marque. So it is pre March 1958. Frame rescued after having been hand painted black! All the transfers were made scifically for this project and copied from period catalogue. I still have a few little tweaks to finish it but gave it a short test ride this afternoon.



Oh! I liked that black finish !


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## Mandobob (9 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Oh! I liked that black finish !



The brush marks were exquisitely uneven


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## Illaveago (9 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> The brush marks were exquisitely uneven



Probably that well known artist Constable Turner .


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## andyscherer (15 Oct 2022)

I’ve completed the rebuild of my (possibly) Model 90 Mk. II. I’m sure I will fiddle with it but for now I’m very pleased with it.


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## midlife (15 Oct 2022)

That made me smile . So much a Falcon of the era, colour, decals, kit, but most of all the total lack of handy braze ons and the rear wheel hanging onto the very front of the rear dropout.


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## Mandobob (15 Oct 2022)

That all looks pretty much of the period. It just needs riding now!


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## andyscherer (17 Oct 2022)

Very well then. First ride, around part of the Ashokan Reservoir in upstate New York.


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## Illaveago (18 Oct 2022)

southcoast said:


> It’s amazing what a lasting impression things can have on one at that age. Probably why we like vintage bikes, always looking for things we wanted when we were younger. Your red Falcon looks nice. Why not look for a purple bike and keep your current one original. Can’t have too many bikes.



23 ?


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## Illaveago (18 Oct 2022)

I have just been thinking about my Rotrax frame which turned out to be a Falcon . It has been in my garage waiting for me to get round to it again . I have just dug it out and compared it with my 70's Viking Severn Valley . They both have the same wheelbase but the Falcon has a longer crossbar . Whilst I was comparing the frames I checked my Falcon and found that the original frame , paint wise isn't too bad . The paint has yellowed over the years and there are a few places that need a bit of paint . Local repairs could be done if I could find a similar colour . The white band could easily be redone. Parts wise I should have most on it in my spares boxes . I could always borrow some wheels off another bike .


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## Mandobob (18 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I have just been thinking about my Rotrax frame which turned out to be a Falcon . It has been in my garage waiting for me to get round to it again . I have just dug it out and compared it with my 70's Viking Severn Valley . They both have the same wheelbase but the Falcon has a longer crossbar . Whilst I was comparing the frames I checked my Falcon and found that the original frame , paint wise isn't too bad . The paint has yellowed over the years and there are a few places that need a bit of paint . Local repairs could be done if I could find a similar colour . The white band could easily be redone. Parts wise I should have most on it in my spares boxes . I could always borrow some wheels off another bike .



How about a photo or two?


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## Mandobob (18 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I have just been thinking about my Rotrax frame which turned out to be a Falcon . It has been in my garage waiting for me to get round to it again . I have just dug it out and compared it with my 70's Viking Severn Valley . They both have the same wheelbase but the Falcon has a longer crossbar . Whilst I was comparing the frames I checked my Falcon and found that the original frame , paint wise isn't too bad . The paint has yellowed over the years and there are a few places that need a bit of paint . Local repairs could be done if I could find a similar colour . The white band could easily be redone. Parts wise I should have most on it in my spares boxes . I could always borrow some wheels off another bike .





andyscherer said:


> Very well then. First ride, around part of the Ashokan Reservoir in upstate New York.
> View attachment 664927
> 
> 
> ...



Do you know the tune Asokan Farewell by Jay Ungar? One of my favourite tunes that I play on my mandolin.


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## andyscherer (18 Oct 2022)

> Do you know the tune Asokan Farewell by Jay Ungar? One of my favourite tunes that I play on my mandolin.


Now I do. Thanks for referencing it, quite a lovely melody. 

The top photo is very close to the location cited as the inspiration for Ungar's composition, small wonder. I'm quite fortunate to have this very close to our upstate house. The west side of the reservoir has a 10-mile rail trail, my wife and I ride out and back almost weekly. 

Thanks again for your input on the (presumed) model.


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## Illaveago (18 Oct 2022)

Here is my frame . The white bits could be masked out and sprayed with white aerosol. The primed areas on the blue bits would have to wait until I found a similar colour.


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## Mandobob (18 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Here is my frame . The white bits could be masked out and sprayed with white aerosol. The primed areas on the blue bits would have to wait until I found a similar colour.
> 
> View attachment 665073
> 
> ...



Hi there. That looks to me very much like a late 1970s Falcon Professional Cr-Mo frame. What do you think?


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## midlife (19 Oct 2022)

The long seat stay caps look like a Falcon Pro Super or Super Pro in cro mo to me as well.


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> Hi there. That looks to me very much like a late 1970s Falcon Professional Cr-Mo frame. What do you think?



I just measured it and it is 26.6 mm . I don't know how I missed it before . It seems that you are right .
The frame was finished to a very high standard with the lugs really sharp without blobs of braze. The lining was also very thin and accurate. I thought it was braze as I washed the paint off . The ends of the seat and chain stays are rounded . I have run my finger round inside the seat tube and there isn't a seam so it is tubing .


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2022)

It is a right puzzle ! 
I have found a catalogue from 1978 which shows the New Professional in Cro Mo. The brakes listed on the catalogue are Weinmann 500 side pulls just like what the frame came with . I have looked at the back of these for a date stamp and they would fit in the time frame being 77. Now this is where it becomes interesting , they are anodised gold. I originally thought that they came from a Raleigh black and gold model but these came later . The gold brakes would tie in with the gold lining which was done to a very high standard and is around every lug , including the rear brake mounting where it located on the stays . The other thing is that the gold lies on top of the white panel on the head tube . The white was also on originally as I have found the remains of a vinyl sticker with the blue metallic / white demarcation line underneath . Falcon used vinyl stickers normally on the seat tube and down tube so why have the sections been sprayed on ? The model in the catalogue shows the later style block lettering on either side of the seat tube without any white panels .
The long spear pointed lugs have heart shaped cut outs , I'm not sure what type of lugs were fitted or finished on the Cro Mo Professional .
The brake caliper mountings have the reinforcement but don't have the recesses like the later type . Oh! No braze ons fitted . The rear dropouts are Shimano with the screw adjusters . 
So ! It is a strange one ! So at sometime in the past someone has gone to a lot of effort to mask out, spray and line the frame when they could have simply applied stickers .


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2022)

I am sorry but I need to make a correction !
I couldn't understand how I had got confused over the internal diameter of the seat tube . I could have sworn that I had measured it before and found that it was 27.2 . The other day when I measured it I was surprised to get a reading of 26.2!  Going back through the earlier posts I found that I had previously measured it as 27.2. I have just gone out and measured it again and have come up with various figures! To obtain a more correct answer I removed the Campag seat post from another bike and fitted it . It is 27.2mm!


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## biggs682 (20 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I am sorry but I need to make a correction !
> I couldn't understand how I had got confused over the internal diameter of the seat tube . I could have sworn that I had measured it before and found that it was 27.2 . The other day when I measured it I was surprised to get a reading of 26.2!  Going back through the earlier posts I found that I had previously measured it as 27.2. I have just gone out and measured it again and have come up with various figures! To obtain a more correct answer I removed the Campag seat post from another bike and fitted it . It is 27.2mm!



So are you doing a U turn ?


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2022)

biggs682 said:


> So are you doing a U turn ?



Seems popular at the moment !


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## Mandobob (20 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I just measured it and it is 26.6 mm . I don't know how I missed it before . It seems that you are right .
> The frame was finished to a very high standard with the lugs really sharp without blobs of braze. The lining was also very thin and accurate. I thought it was braze as I washed the paint off . The ends of the seat and chain stays are rounded . I have run my finger round inside the seat tube and there isn't a seam so it is tubing .



I think you may find that the lugs are Bocama which were fitted to both Professional and SuperPro models. 

Does it have the rear brake bridge strengthening?


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## Illaveago (20 Oct 2022)

Mandobob said:


> I think you may find that the lugs are Bocama which were fitted to both Professional and SuperPro models.
> 
> Does it have the rear brake bridge strengthening?



Yes. But it is the early version without the recess for the mounting bolt .


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## Mandobob (20 Oct 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Yes. But it is the early version without the recess for the mounting bolt .



So its definitely a Falcon Professional!


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## avecReynolds531 (21 Oct 2022)

There's a Falcon Olympic for sale just now at £80: a 531 plain gauge frame, wrap over stays and half chromed fork in really good condition:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36402122...35&osub=-1~1&crd=20221020012614&segname=11021


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## Illaveago (22 Oct 2022)

I masked out and sprayed a couple of panels on my frame today. I have placed one of the gold brake calipers on just for show. The original blue would have been much brighter.
There is another strange thing about this frame and that is the gap between the front fork dropouts . It is 9cm. This must have been how they were made . It is not through accident damage. The forks are true . I have tried using a car jack to see if they would move but they are too springy. They just return to their original setting . I will have to get some slimmed down cones and washers.


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## Illaveago (29 Oct 2022)

I have just bought an old pair of Viking forks. The description states that the gap between the dropouts is 96 mm , which don't seem too far off what my frame has . So to me it sounds as though you could get narrower hubs at some time in the past .


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## pdkamik (3 Nov 2022)

Is there a way to determine hold old a Falcon is by the serial number. This is probably a 60’s bike


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## Illaveago (3 Nov 2022)

pdkamik said:


> Is there a way to determine hold old a Falcon is by the serial number. This is probably a 60’s bike



Their numbering system is difficult to unravel. Do you have any pictures of the whole frame as the style of transfers may be able to pin down the year and model .


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## Mandobob (4 Nov 2022)

pdkamik said:


> Is there a way to determine hold old a Falcon is by the serial number. This is probably a 60’s bike



And the style of lugs may help too.


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2022)

If there is a transfer on the seat tube with an Eagle with made in Lincolnshire on it it would date it to post 67 . That is when the company moved there .


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2022)

I just went back some pages to find my Black Diamond post to find that it's frame number begins with C which I think is post 67 as it has the Lincolnshire transfer. So it would seem that the A number pre dates that .


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## pdkamik (5 Nov 2022)

pdkamik said:


> Is there a way to determine hold old a Falcon is by the serial number. This is probably a 60’s bike



Before and after picture. Cleaned it up for a friend whose father used to race it . campagnolo deraileurs.


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## Mandobob (6 Nov 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I just went back some pages to find my Black Diamond post to find that it's frame number begins with C which I think is post 67 as it has the Lincolnshire transfer. So it would seem that the A number pre dates that .



My current theory is that where there is a prefix letter, the following dates apply. Any thought Illavago?


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## Illaveago (6 Nov 2022)

Mandobob said:


> My current theory is that where there is a prefix letter, the following dates apply. Any thought Illavago?
> 
> View attachment 667091



I'll have to check . I have 3 frames to check . The earliest is a Club Special is a H and my Black Diamond is C.


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## Illaveago (6 Nov 2022)

The H would fit in with the Club Special as it was an early model with the Cyclo Benelux rear hanger . The Black Diamond with the C prefix seems to be out as it was fitted with a Simplex Prestige rear derailleur which only went to 1972 . I will check Disraeli Gears . I will also look at some different makes of catalogues as I can remember seeing them fitted to other bikes .


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## pdkamik (8 Nov 2022)

Thanks, the components seem older than 75 but maybe he transfered them from an older frame Or he had a limited budget.


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## Illaveago (9 Nov 2022)

pdkamik said:


> Thanks, the components seem older than 75 but maybe he transfered them from an older frame Or he had a limited budget.



As you say the bike looks older . The Nervex lugs would seem to point to the 60's. Are there any date stamps on the back of the brake calipers ?


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## Illaveago (9 Nov 2022)

pdkamik said:


> Before and after picture. Cleaned it up for a friend whose father used to race it . campagnolo derailleur


Your bike also has a metal head badge which also seems to imply an earlier date . They switch to a tape style badge later on .


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## Mandobob (10 Nov 2022)

It could well be a San Remo model 94 if it has a 27.2 seat pin.


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## Mandobob (10 Nov 2022)

Mandobob said:


> It could well be a San Remo model 94 if it has a 27.2 seat pin.



Or San Remo model 92 if the seat pin is 26.6


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## midlife (10 Nov 2022)

Illaveago said:


> As you say the bike looks older . The Nervex lugs would seem to point to the 60's. Are there any date stamps on the back of the brake calipers ?



Nervex lugs used to pop up from time to time in all sorts of places. The 70's Carlton Clubman had Nervex lugs and also came in the then slightly out of fashion Eau de Nil colour


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