# Bristol is named as the new Cycling City



## summerdays (19 Jun 2008)

Its in the news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7462791.stm

its a pity that the clip they showed of someone cycling in Bristol, talking about cyclists going through red lights ... and in the background it looks like it shows cyclists going through red lights but they aren't ... its a toucan crossing point. (The best set of lights in town with a 15 second delay from pressing the button to the lights changing). Unfortunate timing in the film.


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## zimzum42 (19 Jun 2008)

They've all sold their cars to buy smack


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## John the Monkey (19 Jun 2008)

"In other news, manufacturers of green paint celebrated an unexpected upturn in business..."


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## summerdays (19 Jun 2008)

Well if it takes green paint (I think its usually red in Bristol), to get folk on bikes then I'm all for it... hopefully those that initially start on the paths will gradually move to being on the road. And I'm assuming that there will be adult training on offer.

I'm hoping that there will also be more racks around the town... some parts such as up by the University/Park Street/Cathedral just don't have any where near the number of racks needed.

Now I wonder if they can double the number of cyclists and how they go about measuring that.


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## Cab (19 Jun 2008)

Encouraging cyclists onto the road by using cycle lanes is like encouraging people to eat well by giving them angel delight.

Cyclists are not 'the problem' on our roads, the problem is volume and behaviour of motorists; you don't solve that attitude problem by ghettoising the more valid (in environmenta, economic and health terms) and reinforcing the perception that they should be kept out of the way for convenience of others.

From what I can see, this is all about spending a little money (like, the equivalent of a few yards on new motorways) to be seen to be doing something; it isn't for cyclists, it isn't to encourage cycling, it is to be seen to be encouraging _other people_ onto bikes because that'll make motoring more convenient.


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## John the Monkey (19 Jun 2008)

Cab said:


> Encouraging cyclists onto the road by using cycle lanes is like encouraging people to eat well by giving them angel delight.


An Australian blog I read recently said (paraphrased slightly) "There has to be more to cycle commuting than a series of frightened dashes between pieces of traffic free infrastructure". 

Good post Cab.


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## MartinC (19 Jun 2008)

I've been working in Zurich for 4 months, they've got transport sorted. Cab is right the biggest problem with all UK transport issues is the volume and attitude of car drivers. Nothing will improve cycling much until that is changed. The UK is a car centric society and until space and oil run out completely it won't change. I very much doubt that people will see this coming (they've had 40 years already and he penny hasn't dropped) or be able to cope with a change. Politicians fiddling around the edges can't make a difference. Pessimistic, yes, unfortunately I think it's true.


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## Fasman (19 Jun 2008)

I don't know Martin. Bristol feels like it its on the cusp of a big shift. Filling in the missing cycle links, better training, the hire scheme and all the other things proposed might just do it. 

The sum involved would buy, what, 10 metres of motorway? But if Bristol can prove you can *double* cycling with such a 'small' (in the grand scheme of things) sum, then maybe national policy may shift a little more in cyclists favour.


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## marinyork (19 Jun 2008)

£11 mil is what I heard. That's an awful lot of dosh when you compare to cycling budgets in most places or even the £50m sustrans have been given to piss spend away. On the other hand I do worry about what John the Monkey says about green and red tarmac, in my city they measure the amount put in in metres!!!!! However joking aside looking at the costings per scheme around here anyway £11m presumably does go a long way to wish lists and some of it will filter down into physical facilities rather than cosmetic ones. The doubling sounds ambitious but if they get anywhere near that then well done to them.


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## summerdays (19 Jun 2008)

I'm hoping that it won't just be bits of extra coloured tarmac along the edge of roads, but more joined up thinking, making it easier for cyclists (whether it be cycling against the flow in some one way routes, allowing short cuts through some parks that are currently no cycling). And I would love some lockers in Broadmead so I could dump my pannier and helmet when I go shopping.


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## marinyork (19 Jun 2008)

Well I'd have thought some of those schemes will be implemented. If you compare 11 mil to the sort of budget round here (reputedly 250-400k) it'd probably get spent on exactly the sort of schemes that are tens of thousands of pounds but on the wish list and likely to get shelved (like they are here in the 5 year plan and get delegated to later years or say they've run out of money like one scheme I enquired about).


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## sheddy (20 Jun 2008)

"The further 11 Cycling Demonstration Towns will build on the work of the existing six Cycling Demonstration Towns appointed in 2005, which have seen significant increases in cycling levels. They are Blackpool, Cambridge, Chester, Colchester, Leighton/Linslade, Shrewsbury, Southend on Sea, Southport with Ainsdale, Stoke, Woking and York" from http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/f...77&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False


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## simon l& and a half (21 Jun 2008)

I know that you've read this before, but I've taken to counting the cars and the cycles on three major roads on our commute - Stockwell Road, Kennington Road and Blackfriars Bridge Road. On each cars are outnumbered by bikes - at the time of day (about 6.30) that we travel homewards.

The result, or one of many results, is that cyclists are treated with a greater degree of respect than one would have thought likely five or ten years ago.

Now, if any of the cycling towns can replicate this kind of success, then the diversion of monies from the motorway budget to the cycling budget can be accounted a success. And, however much we (I include myself in this) might quibble with the chosen means of increasing bicycle use, the intent is there, and it's undoubtedly the case that the DfT will want to learn the lessons from each city's experience. 

And, yes, this is not about us - it's about cyclists as yet unformed.


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## marinyork (21 Jun 2008)

Well said. I was merely trying to point out that the magnitude of the budgets should allow for instant action on these routes/projects rather than spread over a number of years (or even delayed). I'm more of a fan of physical infrastructure - bridges, short cuts, some junction tinkering, parking. However such a budget should allow for the lot - routes, physical infrastructure, back up, advertising, better maintenance, signage etc. At the moment it's rather stretched (well round here it is).


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## Fasman (22 Jun 2008)

marinyork said:


> Well I'd have thought some of those schemes will be implemented. If you compare 11 mil to the sort of budget round here (reputedly 250-400k) it'd probably get spent on exactly the sort of schemes that are tens of thousands of pounds but on the wish list and likely to get shelved.



I think you'll be lucky if its even that high! Seems like a good plan, bring forward those things which have been programmed for years, but keep getting bumped down the list. Physical infrastructure would be my natural instinct, it's there forever and the chance to do many of larger schemes is rare, especially given the cost of anything which needs a CPO or difficult engineering (a new bridge, pontoon etc). 

But the objective of the project is to double numbers cycling and simon is right , its not about us converted i suppose, its about the yet to be converted. Bike re-cyc, training and so on will help do that. The single measure i'm most excited about having the most impact is grants for employers and landlords to install cycling facilities in work places. In my last job i had to use the loos... same for a lot of people.


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## User482 (23 Jun 2008)

I believe that the proposals include training to encourage more confidence on the road, but also a new dedicated off-road north/ south path through the city. I do think that a variety of solutions are what's needed - looks to be a big step in the right direction.


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## simon l& and a half (23 Jun 2008)

The Brighton scheme is particularly good on personalised travel plans - visiting people at home, talking through the options, and accompanying them on trips.


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## simoncc (3 Jul 2008)

We shall see. The money will certainly be spent. £11 million can easily be absorbed by the bureaucracy of a city council. If, as a result of Cycling City status there is anything more to show in Bristol than a lot of new signage, unusable bike lanes, lots of pro-cycling council leaflets in libraries, feeble school visits to promote cycling, conferences at very nice conference centres where all staff arrive by car, and other ineffective and expensive measures I'd be pleasantly surprised.


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## peanut (4 Jul 2008)

personally I think the arrogantand irresponsible attitude of the majority of cyclists in Bristol is just as much to blame as the inconsiderate attitude of most drivers.
I recently worked in St Pauls district of Bristol and commuted in daily from South Somerset by car.(Temp post)

I couldn't believe the complete and utter lack of respect and commonsense of most bikers. Complete disregard for traffic lights and highway code. They cycle along the pavements career in and out of up to 3 lanes of moving cars ,undertake, overtake and frequently cycle on the wrong side of islands and lanes.
I saw less than 10 % stop at traffic lights. Most either just cycle straight through or inch their way out into the junction forcing cars to stop. Some even career up onto the pavement to go round the corners sending shoppers and mothers with prams flying in all directions.

Spend a couple of months in Bristol centre as I did and you'll change you're mind as to who are the bigger menace


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## summerdays (4 Jul 2008)

I've worked in St Pauls recently and I think you have to have a different attitude and "relax" ... they are definately more laid back, which can be frustrating when you are trying to get things done.

I wouldn't base your opinion of Bristol cyclists on that ... one guy in St Pauls couldn't see why I objected to how he parked his van - in the photo below the guy parked his van (the one which is on the far side of the road in the photo), this side of the white car - blocking the junction that I was trying to turn into. He argued and went into his house ... then a brother came and moved it!!!







And I would disagree with the 10 % stop at traffic lights... I sometimes think it seems as high as 40-50% though.


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## User482 (4 Jul 2008)

peanuts said:


> personally I think the arrogantand irresponsible attitude of the majority of cyclists in Bristol is just as much to blame as the inconsiderate attitude of most drivers.
> I recently worked in St Pauls district of Bristol and commuted in daily from South Somerset by car.(Temp post)
> 
> I couldn't believe the complete and utter lack of respect and commonsense of most bikers. Complete disregard for traffic lights and highway code. They cycle along the pavements career in and out of up to 3 lanes of moving cars ,undertake, overtake and frequently cycle on the wrong side of islands and lanes.
> ...



I don't dispute your experience, but I think a reality check is required! Any casual browse of the accident stats will show that motorists are a far bigger menace than cyclists.

In any case, I've never been very impressed with either the standards of driving or cycling in Bristol - complete lack of respect for other road users and the law from both.


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## mickle (10 Jul 2008)

You should of sed! I wood of met up withee my babber. 

As they say.


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## Fasman (22 Jul 2008)

For those familiar with Bristol there is a new interactive layer on www.bristolstreets.co.uk. You can leave comments and suggestions using google maps. Clever stuff.


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## summerdays (22 Jul 2008)

Thanks for that ... first time that I've seen that. I've just added one comment to the map so far, on the cycle survey asking Tesco's to provide better cycle parking than the rubbish they have at Eastville. (And yes I have already complained directly to the store - luckily its not my local store it would drive me mad.)


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## Fasman (28 Jul 2008)

Hmm... it might be worth asking the council if Tesco's were ever bound by a planning application to provide decent cycle parking. _If_ they were, then the council can enforce the planning agreement and Tesco's will be obliged to provide better cycle parking. Email transport.planning@bristol.gov.uk, the council have to reply to formal requests.


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## sheddy (28 Sep 2009)

I didn't hear it, but R4 had 1/2 hr on the Bristol scheme this morning - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mx6bc/Bristol_Cycling_City/


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## Davidc (28 Sep 2009)

In my experience Bristol has been a nut-house on its roads for at least the past 40 years! That applies to everyone, drivers, riders and walkers. Regard for the safety of self and others is low, as is respect for road rules and law.

I don't go there often now, but my experience would suggest summerdays figures are about right. They're also about right for drivers.

Every time I visit I see some of the worst driving and worst cycling I've seen anywhere. The riding isn't helped by Bristol having wide and often straight roads with steep hills on them, which encourages inapropriately fast riding. (Who am I to criticise if I look back a few decades!)

The cycling facilities are definitely better than they used to be, and with good management the £11m will do a lot of good. Good, dedicated, cycle routes from the park and Ride sites, with free parking when ride is on a bike, would be a good start. User482' north south route would be a good move. Again it needs a dedicated cycle road. Unfortunately we don't do dedicated cycle roads in Britain, and if we did they probably wouldn't have the smooth tarmac found elsewhere.


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## summerdays (28 Sep 2009)

Well I have benefited from some of the money spent so far... new cycle stands have been cropping up (not yet in all the locations that I want but its a start), and I use the new path running between St Werburgh's city farm and the Muller Road occasionally - cuts out a bump and is far more pleasant. 

There are definitely more cyclists on the roads - whether it has anything to do with cycling city or just financial I don't know. In the last month I have noticed loads of cyclists, parents dropping off kids on the way to school, more folk in the ASL's waiting at the red lights.

Whilst you do get motorists that annoy you as they cut you up or ignore you, I also find lots of motorists expecting cyclists on the road. 

My youngest child's school is now a Bike It school so we will see what affect that will have on the numbers cycling. Certainly cycling at school whilst not in huge numbers is not seen as the weirdo thing to do.


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## Danny (28 Sep 2009)

Davidc said:


> Unfortunately we don't do dedicated cycle roads in Britain, and if we did they probably wouldn't have the smooth tarmac found elsewhere.


It is actually difficult to build 100% dedicated routes in most older cities because of the limited amount of free space. 

However York has made a good attempts at creating dedicated routes - the millennium route goes all the way from the west of the city to the University via a specially built bridge, and most of it is traffic free or on quiet roads. Another route was created by closing a road along the river, which had been used as a rat-run, and turning this into a dedicated walking and cycling route. And both have excellent surfaces all the way.

I know some on this forum are sceptical of dedicated cycling routes, but it is actually quicker and far more pleasant to use both the routes I've mentioned than to try to try and cycle on York's gridlocked road network.


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