# Kick that car.....



## bonk man (31 Jul 2009)

car booting and cyclist squashing shenanigans in Worcester..
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news...river_rammed_into_cyclist_who_kicked_his_car/ 

naughty cyclist.... even naughtier driver..


----------



## dellzeqq (31 Jul 2009)

'brushed'. Indeed


----------



## addictfreak (31 Jul 2009)

A few years ago I took part in the Great north cycle ride (when it started in gateshead). While out on the route a very impatient car driver was trying to barge through a group of around 50 cyclists, as he approached me all I could hear was the banging of fists and shoes hitting his car. Must have had a hefty repair bill, served the tosser right!


----------



## Lizban (31 Jul 2009)

addictfreak said:


> A few years ago I took part in the Great north cycle ride (when it started in gateshead). While out on the route a very impatient car driver was trying to barge through a group of around 50 cyclists, as he approached me all I could hear was the banging of fists and shoes hitting his car. Must have had a hefty repair bill, served the tosser right!



Do you actually beleive that this was the right thing to do??????


----------



## joolsybools (31 Jul 2009)

I must admit I would have been tempted.


----------



## Landslide (31 Jul 2009)

Lizban said:


> Do you actually beleive that this was the right thing to do??????



No. The driver should hve been more patient, and waited for a safe opportunity to overtake.


----------



## TheDoctor (31 Jul 2009)

So cars 'brush' us, and we 'cause criminal damage' to them?

It's all in the language.


----------



## wafflycat (31 Jul 2009)

TheDoctor said:


> So cars 'brush' us, and we 'cause criminal damage' to them?
> 
> It's all in the language.



+1


----------



## purplepolly (31 Jul 2009)

"Large’s licence will be endorsed with eight penalty points to add to his existing six which led to a six month driving ban. "

His existing six points...


----------



## joolsybools (31 Jul 2009)

Surprise surprise. Lets face it no one buys an Audi TT with the intention of driving around at 30mph in it


----------



## addictfreak (1 Aug 2009)

Lizban

I think you need to remember that if a car hits us the driver will walk away, the cyclist may not. There needs to be a complete culture change towards cyclists in this country. I dont know of another country in western europe where cyclists are virtually forced of the road.


----------



## bonk man (1 Aug 2009)

Worcester used to have a critical mass every week but it stopped after a few months as these things often do, might be time for another one. 
This driver should have been jailed for dangerous driving or intent to kill....


----------



## Will1985 (1 Aug 2009)

They were as bad as each other. My reading of it is that the cyclist admitted to kicking the car after the initial contact. Surely he should have been made to pay for that repair.


----------



## semislickstick (1 Aug 2009)

....and the driver pay for buckled wheel and injuries to the rider?


----------



## simon_brooke (1 Aug 2009)

Lizban said:


> Do you actually beleive that this was the right thing to do??????



Clearly it wasn't the right thing to do. However, if the driver had obeyed the highway code, it wouldn't have been a _possible _thing to do.


----------



## Will1985 (1 Aug 2009)

semislickstick said:


> ....and the driver pay for buckled wheel and injuries to the rider?


Yes.


----------



## ComedyPilot (1 Aug 2009)

Will1985 said:


> *They were as bad as each other*. My reading of it is that the cyclist admitted to kicking the car after the initial contact. Surely he should have been made to pay for that repair.





semislickstick said:


> ....*and the driver pay for buckled wheel and injuries to the rider?*



I think Will1985 answered that question before you posted it. 

They were as bad as one another, and as is more common nowadays, no-one wants to lose face by backing down. And we all know the consequences of that, don't we?


----------



## Shrimp_Stu (1 Aug 2009)

ComedyPilot said:


> They were as bad as one another, and as is more common nowadays, no-one wants to lose face by backing down. And we all know the consequences of that, don't we?



+1


----------



## semislickstick (1 Aug 2009)

...I think the judge answered it. 
Neither of them got compensated for the 'collision'


----------



## byegad (3 Aug 2009)

I'd say there were three 'wrongs' in this. The initial contact (brush is weaseling and contact is what happened). Then the damage to the car and finally attempted murder. 

I'd say the driver is lucky not to be looking at a manslaughter or murder charge and subsequent sentence. I'd say he got away with the 'brushing' incident. The rider is lucky not to be paying for the damage to the car.


----------



## theclaud (3 Aug 2009)

Lizban said:


> Do you actually beleive that this was the right thing to do??????



Yes. Why not? It didn't hurt him, and it might make him think twice. I often hit cars that pass too close - not hard enough to do any damage, but the drivers always look gratifyingly terrified. And I'm not very scary. The problem is the ones that go past you too fast for you to react in time to get a retaliatory wallop in.


----------



## Bad Company (3 Aug 2009)

byegad said:


> I'd say there were three 'wrongs' in this. The initial contact (brush is weaseling and contact is what happened). Then the damage to the car and finally attempted murder.
> 
> I'd say the driver is lucky not to be looking at a manslaughter or murder charge and subsequent sentence. I'd say he got away with the 'brushing' incident. The rider is lucky not to be paying for the damage to the car.



Yep agreed - spot on.


----------



## bonk man (3 Aug 2009)

I am all for attacking cars that are used carelessly but more particularly those driven dangerously. 

I was pillion on a motorbike many years ago and we were badly cut up and nearly wiped out by a terrible bit of driving. The rider and I were extremely cross and we decided to catch the culprit, which we did in the next town. I had a steam iron down my jacket [ my mates wife's, I think I had just been repairing it and it was going back..... whatever ] consequently the car got many dents in its roof...... I would do it again. 

I have remonstrated with drivers who have held their hands up and said sorry but there are so many who don't give a damn if they run you off the road and to be honest they need a wake up call. 

My mate dragged the [ chav ] driver out through the window of a car after he was deliberately knocked off his bike in Worcester town centre. The driver got a total pasting, serves him right. 

A club mate was run over deliberately and it ended in court action, the guy was done for it thanks to one of his mates grassing him up.... 

I would not boot in a grannies motor just because she is blind and shouldn't be behind the wheel but I might take the keys if the incident were bad enough and I have seen this done, rider rammed from behind by old duffer, got up and realising the driver was not fit to drive whips out the keys and calls the cops.


----------



## Rhys_Po (3 Aug 2009)

byegad said:


> I'd say the driver is lucky not to be looking at a manslaughter or murder charge and subsequent sentence.





I think he would have been pretty unlucky myself, given that the cyclist is still alive.


----------



## ufkacbln (3 Aug 2009)

"Kicked the car"?

SHurely....

I was passed extremely closely by the vehicle, and was using both my hands on the brakes.. It was so close that I had to fend myself off using my foot to avoid being hot by the vehicle!


----------



## Bad Company (4 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> I am all for attacking cars that are used carelessly but more particularly those driven dangerously.



You toucha my car I breaka your face.


----------



## magnatom (4 Aug 2009)

I can understand hitting a car as a reaction. For example I have on two occasions hit a car/van as they passed way to close. On both occasions it was a reaction to something invading my space, and an attempt to 'wake' the driver up.

However, there is no excuse for approaching the car, arguing with the driver and then kicking his car. Criminal damage IMO. 

Of course the greater evil in this instance is of course the car driver driving at the cyclist. Absolutely no excuse for using the car as a weapon, or even just to 'prevent escape' as the driver claimed.


----------



## Lizban (4 Aug 2009)

I'm shocked that (some) people seem to think attacking a car (or driver for that matter) is an acceptable reaction to bad driving.

You live and learn I suppose


----------



## bonk man (4 Aug 2009)

As a vulnerable road user getting hit by or almost squashed by a car will raise the adrenalin levels to fight or flight levels, therefore it is quite understandable people attack cars and sometimes drivers. 

Riding in traffic is stressful anyway and add a near miss it can boil over. Being reasonable is easy when you are sitting in front of the computer but in the real world when a cretin has bashed into you with a 2 ton car it is different. 

Whether or not the driver deliberately attacked you is neither here nor there if you have the red mist, however I have been in angry situations that have calmed down quickly when you actually speak to the driver, they often know they are in the wrong and I think lots of car bashing goes on when they flick the finger  at you or don't even want to acknowledge you when you catch up and say "oi mate........etc.. " 

Any driver touching a cyclist with a car should go on a driving course and have it drilled into them that cyclists are vulnerable ... getting tapped from behind and then going into a tree or under a lorry is not good. 

I recommend reading ' An Open Letter to the Motorist ' by W Fitzwater Wray [ the book title is The Kuklos Papers ] to remind ourselves what a monster the car is and how things have got worse since the 1920's, it has changed my view of driving, I am even more against private car ownership than I was before reading this book.


----------



## purplepolly (4 Aug 2009)

Lizban said:


> I'm shocked that (some) people seem to think attacking a car (or driver for that matter) is an acceptable reaction to bad driving.
> 
> You live and learn I suppose




I've had a car drive into the edge of my pannier at traffic lights when the driver started off before the green light. My bike moved forward by about 2 feet, having a fast moving car do that must have been very scary... just like the time I got run off the road while going past a junction by a driver desperate to turn left and get to mcdonalds. 

Some people aren't capable of sitting around making well thought out rational courses of action when these kinds of incidents happen and are more driven by fear and andrenalin.


----------



## srw (4 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> Riding in traffic is stressful anyway



No it's not. If it is, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## marzjennings (4 Aug 2009)

Seems fair enough to me a nudge for nudge. The couple times I've been nudged I've slapped the roof of the offending car. Lots of noise, but no damage.


----------



## very-near (4 Aug 2009)

joolsybools said:


> Surprise surprise. Lets face it no one buys an Audi TT with the intention of driving around at 30mph in it



I was thinking the same of srw's Fiat Coupe which he never exceeds more than 60mph in


----------



## Lizban (5 Aug 2009)

purplepolly said:


> I've had a car drive into the edge of my pannier at traffic lights when the driver started off before the green light. My bike moved forward by about 2 feet, having a fast moving car do that must have been very scary... just like the time I got run off the road while going past a junction by a driver desperate to turn left and get to mcdonalds.
> 
> Some people aren't capable of sitting around making well thought out rational courses of action when these kinds of incidents happen and are more driven by fear and andrenalin.




Makes sense but then chasing and catching someone up a mile down tehe road - yuo've had the chance to cool down and think.


----------



## Bad Company (6 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> I am even more against private car ownership than I was before reading this book.



I was actually taking you fairly seriously until I read that.


----------



## ed_o_brain (6 Aug 2009)

I've thrice hit cars. All three times it was in the belief the driver had not seen me. The last time, that git still didn't realise I was there and proceeded to reverse until it was my bike hitting his tailgate producing the noise.

I don't condone this kicking of cars or swiping of wing mirrors. The drivers don't understand. It just increases the tension between them and us. The motons don't think "ooh poor cyclist, I was stupid for not paying attention and 'brushing' them; I'll do better next time". Instead they just get a bit more angry and continue in their ignorant way. In fact they'll probably drive straight over the next cyclist to object to them.

I have to admit, I'm not whiter than white. I had a series of encounters with one driver forcing his way through gaps that weren't there, even though I was travelling at the speed of the traffic. So I waited until we reached a queue and he was boxed in. I lifted up the windscreen wiper blades all around his car and went on my merry way.

I'm not condoning this sort of behaviour, but at the time I was so annoyed I _had_ to do something.

The trick is to try _not_ getting annoyed in the first place. Does us no favours.
Hope this makes sense.


----------



## bonk man (7 Aug 2009)

After I said.. I was against private car ownership ... 



Bad Company said:


> I was actually taking you fairly seriously until I read that.




Do any of us need a car? Unless you are hauling loads of tools or goods about then most of us don't need a private car, there are a few exceptions [disability and race commisaires  ] and the rest is an excuse. 

It is only because we are used to private ownership and the convenience that we just take it for granted and rack up thousands of carbon miles. 
Everyone having a car has caused so much misery that it seems hardly worth it. 

I have a van for work and it gets used for going away occasionally which when I look at it is probably wrong and I should use the train or my bike.

Good example of misery was played out opposite my house this morning; narrow road with 2 cars facing each other, neither would budge, this went on for 20 minutes with other cars driving down the pavement, one guy gets out has a shout and fist wave, eventually one driver gives in, result 2 miserable drivers, probably both of whom could have been on foot or bike. 

Cars.... make us all lazy and miserable.


----------



## bonj2 (7 Aug 2009)

TheDoctor said:


> So cars 'brush' us, and we 'cause criminal damage' to them?
> 
> It's all in the language.



to be fair to the article both those terms are in quote marks, suggesting it's not their terms.


----------



## bonj2 (7 Aug 2009)

What I'd like to know is do you,
(a) unclip one foot and take a swing at it with that, hoping that it doesn't cause you to wobble enough to fall off,
( unclip both feet, stop, THEN give it a boot, clip back in and ride off again?
(c) completely stop, get off the bike, hold it, take a massive backswing and really give it a good pelt?

if (a), how do you do that on fixed?


----------



## bonj2 (7 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> Do any of us need a car? Unless you are hauling loads of tools or goods about then most of us don't need a private car, there are a few exceptions [disability and race commisaires  ] and the rest is an excuse.



mountain biking, what about that - is using a car for that unjustified in your opinion?


----------



## User482 (7 Aug 2009)

I hit the back of a van once. It was reversing into me at the time. Was that unacceptable, Lizban?


----------



## bonk man (8 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> mountain biking, what about that - is using a car for that unjustified in your opinion?



well actually..... in the old days when folk used to ride out to road events they would take their race wheels strapped to their race bikes and put them on before the race, I suppose there is no problem taking some folding tyres on the mtb to swap before the event. 

We are all pretty lazy when it comes to getting about and this includes driving out to evening time trials, I am really trying to get out to them on the bike and take lights with me for the ride home, trouble is I cannot wear my pointy helmet on our council estate a good excuse for driving I reckon

I might come across as a bit of an anticar fascist, but it is pretty pathetic the way so many people rely on them for the lamest of reasons.


----------



## al78 (9 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> After I said.. I was against private car ownership ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Speaking for myself I would love to be able to get rid of my car but I cannot do all my utility journeys on a bike because I suffer from accumulated fatigue. I end up needing at least one day off the bike per week to recover and hence I have to drive to work on that day. Perhaps when someone develops a legal drug that will leave me refreshed and recovered in the mornings with no lingering soreness will I be able to consider selling the car.

If you are a carer looking after elderly relatives then it would be difficult to do that properly without a car.

Finally, if you are single and doing the dating thing does not having a car hamper your chances with the opposite sex?


----------



## Lizban (9 Aug 2009)

User482 said:


> I hit the back of a van once. It was reversing into me at the time. Was that unacceptable, Lizban?



Don't be daft - of course not. Had he almost hit you seen you and stopped and then you chase him to the next village to kick the van then yes I have a probelm with that


----------



## bonk man (9 Aug 2009)

al78 said:


> Speaking for myself I would love to be able to get rid of my car but I cannot do all my utility journeys on a bike because I suffer from accumulated fatigue. I end up needing at least one day off the bike per week to recover and hence I have to drive to work on that day. Perhaps when someone develops a legal drug that will leave me refreshed and recovered in the mornings with no lingering soreness will I be able to consider selling the car.
> 
> If you are a carer looking after elderly relatives then it would be difficult to do that properly without a car.
> 
> Finally, if you are single and doing the dating thing does not having a car hamper your chances with the opposite sex?



As I say there are legitimate reasons for driving. Caring for the elderly and disabled is fair enough. 

Getting knackered cycling to work, I know what you mean, but there might be a bus or get the taxi, that at least is cheaper than actually owning a car..

Dating.... get a tandem, you will find a better and fitter mate that way and the fresh air raises the libido.... I am told....


----------



## User482 (10 Aug 2009)

Lizban said:


> Don't be daft - of course not. Had he almost hit you seen you and stopped and then you chase him to the next village to kick the van then yes I have a probelm with that



So...

If we're agreed that the acceptability of hitting a vehicle is a matter of judgement, could you tell us where you draw the line? Personally, I think it's perfectly reasonably to thump a car that's passing too close. If I can reach it easily from my bike, the driver is putting my life in danger.


----------



## Lizban (10 Aug 2009)

User482 said:


> So...
> 
> If we're agreed that the acceptability of hitting a vehicle is a matter of judgement, could you tell us where you draw the line? Personally, I think it's perfectly reasonably to thump a car that's passing too close. If I can reach it easily from my bike, the driver is putting my life in danger.



There is clear and obvious distrinction between 'reasonable force' and criminal damage and we can all see this - the stories of kicking a car 3-4 times or using an iron (I think I recall on this thread) are clearly unacceptable.

The car about to hit you and you hit the car to act as a warning is very different to you hitting the car when the _intent_ is damage rather than warn.

Is that clearer?


----------



## bonj2 (10 Aug 2009)

bonk man said:


> well actually..... in the old days when folk used to ride out to road events they would take their race wheels strapped to their race bikes and put them on before the race, I suppose there is no problem taking some folding tyres on the mtb to swap before the event.
> 
> We are all pretty lazy when it comes to getting about and this includes driving out to evening time trials, I am really trying to get out to them on the bike and take lights with me for the ride home, trouble is I cannot wear my pointy helmet on our council estate a good excuse for driving I reckon
> 
> I might come across as a bit of an anticar fascist, but it is pretty pathetic the way so many people rely on them for the lamest of reasons.


i'm not talking about an event, i'm talking about just going for a bike ride off road.
The peaks, say, which is the nearest good riding area to me, is a good 50 miles away. Are you saying I should ride 50 miles with my fat tyres over my shoulder and then swap them, not to mention keeping the thin tyres over my shoulder while i'm negotiating technical trails...


----------



## snorri (10 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> The peaks, say, which is the nearest good riding area to me, is a good 50 miles away. Are you saying I should ride 50 miles with my fat tyres over my shoulder and then swap them, not to mention keeping the thin tyres over my shoulder while i'm negotiating technical trails...


If it became necessary to travel 100 miles in a car for me to participate in my chosen sport or hobby, I would be looking for a new interest pdq.


----------



## bonj2 (10 Aug 2009)

snorri said:


> If it became necessary to travel 100 miles in a car for me to participate in my chosen sport or hobby, I would be looking for a new interest pdq.



like what, stamp collecting?


----------



## snorri (10 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> like what, stamp collecting?


That would be ok for winter, but I was thinking of outdoor activities on my doorstep like sailing, hillwalking, bird watching, beachcombing, orienteering, mud wrestling, fishing, rowing, tennis, bowling, diving, golf. Ok I was joking about the mud wrestling, but do try to use your imagination bonj.


----------



## bonj2 (25 Aug 2009)

snorri said:


> That would be ok for winter, but I was thinking of outdoor activities on my doorstep like sailing, hillwalking, bird watching, beachcombing, orienteering, mud wrestling, fishing, rowing, tennis, bowling, diving, golf. Ok I was joking about the mud wrestling, but do try to use your imagination bonj.



Sailing - now that would be actually be quite useful for crossing the river.
I think boats are quite expensive though, not sure i could afford one.
Hillwalking - I'd have to travel almost 50 miles to find a hill. Why do you think i travel 50 miles to go mtbing...
Bird watching - bit boring after a bit isn't it. Oooh great, another sparrow. oh - what's this one here?! A magpie! Oh, another sparrow there. Blackbird. Crow. Great.
Beachcombing - again, MORE than 50 miles to a beach!
Orienteering - again, largely shoot. Audaxes could be described as orienteering which I already do. As could mtbing. Although again, doens't really make sense, to list that ina list of activities i could do close to home, because by its very nature orienteering is finding your way around an area you don't know - and the closer to home, the more I know the area anyway.
Fishing - don't agree with it, cruel to the fish.
Rowing - again, useful for getting across the river in the morning, but requires a boat which I haven't got and probably couldn't afford.
Tennis: shoot. Normally far too windy in britain. I do however do other racket sports.
Bowling: nobody I know is ever up for doing it.
Diving: too expensive. Have to buy loads of scuba gear and get a padi license etc.
Golf: far too time consuming.

Anyway I don't really beieve you're seriously suggesting I actually give up mtbing and get a different hobby just because it involves a bit of driving.


----------



## Joe24 (25 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> Sailing - now that would be actually be quite useful for crossing the river.
> I think boats are quite expensive though, not sure i could afford one.
> Hillwalking - I'd have to travel almost 50 miles to find a hill. Why do you think i travel 50 miles to go mtbing...
> Bird watching - bit boring after a bit isn't it. Oooh great, another sparrow. oh - what's this one here?! A magpie! Oh, another sparrow there. Blackbird. Crow. Great.
> ...



You have forgotten skate boarding, running, chess, table tennis, swimming(could use that river of yours!) kayaking/canoeing.........................


----------



## snorri (25 Aug 2009)

bonj said:


> Anyway I don't really beieve you're seriously suggesting I actually give up mtbing and get a different hobby just because it involves a bit of driving.


Good to see you have given sufficient thought to each of my suggestions to enable you to comment on every one.
That's progress in my book.


----------

