# How to improve my average speed?



## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

Hi all, I've been cycling since 2015 and cycle 3 or 4 times a week and my average speed hasn't improved much from when I started around 12mph on a 20 mile loop, now I average around 13.5 mph on the same loop. Yesterday I did a shorter route with less gradients I just manage 13.6mph. Looking at my strava data most of my rides give my watts output of around 145 watts. Yesterday I was looking at a rider stats who I was following his watts output shows 116watts and averaging 15.6 mph on a 34 mile loop. I just want to improve my average speed to 15mph anybody could give me some advice?. Hope it make sense my eng!ish is not the good. Thanks.


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## EltonFrog (8 May 2020)

Pedal faster.


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## Tenacious Sloth (8 May 2020)

I don’t know your build, but if you can lose any weight that will help. The same number of watts will be able to move less weight faster.

I’m assuming you’re riding a road bike or reasonably lightweight hybrid? A heavy mountain bike won’t help your cause.

The other way of getting faster is to target your training to improve wattage output. Going out 3 or 4 times a week for 20 miles at the same intensity while good, isn’t going to improve your output as much as a _targetted_ training regime including intervals and sessions in specific training zones.

There is probably a lot of information on the internet about training plans to study, or alternatively employ an online coach. I know a few people who’ve gone down the coach route and improved their speed massively.

Alternatively, enjoy the countryside, listen to the birds, drink beer and enjoy your riding. One thing is certain, if you go down the improvement route it won’t get any easier, you’ll just go faster.

Or, to simplify (as Carl has above), pedal faster (but not all the time).


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## DCBassman (8 May 2020)

EltonFrog said:


> Pedal faster.



Yes, it really is that simple. I went out on an ordinary ride over an ordinary distance yesterday, and simple decided to push a bit harder. Average went up a bit. Still less than yours, @kiwifruit , but faster than the day before.


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## Kajjal (8 May 2020)

Normally it comes from eating healthily, losing weight and sleeping well. Also having a well maintained and set up bike. After that it is down to how hard and far you ride.


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## Venod (8 May 2020)

Strava watts are not to be taken too seriously unless the data is from a power meter, have you got a GPS with a cadence readout, see if a higher cadence improves your speed.


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## lazybloke (8 May 2020)

Style of bike makes the biggest difference to me. That encompasses all sorts of factors such as weight, tyre type/size/pressures, riding position and so on.

Route also makes a difference, as junctions, traffic lights, etc, will slow you down.


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

Hi all am 5ft8in, weigh 65kg age 48 slight built, I got 2 road bike and a mountain bike. I tend to ride the road bike and I do put some effect in on my rides. I do have a cadence sensor average about 80rpm. Please see attached


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## Edwardoka (8 May 2020)

Training is the best way to improve your performance and fitness, but you can cheat your way to a higher average speed by looking at the "smoothness" of a ride.

Some tricks to increase your smoothness:
- it's tempting to ease off as you reach the crest of a hill, but you will lose a lot of momentum that way. Keep pushing past the summit.
- you will lose far more time and therefore average speed by riding gently uphill than you can regain by riding hard on the flat or descent
- ride at a pace you can sustain, instead of surging and falling back. If you ride very hard for 2 minutes and then take 10 minutes to recover, you're slower than you'd be if you rode moderately hard for 12 minutes. Great training, but usually doesn't make for good average speeds
- when riding up hills, unless you're sure you can get up it quickly in the gear you're in, change to a gear that feels too easy, focus on your pedalling and breathing and spin up it, this will help prevent you becoming fatigued which would force you into the easier gear anyway
- Constantly stopping and starting will kill your average speed. Avoid routes with traffic lights or lots of junctions or dog walkers/joggers.

Some tricks to increase your performance and fitness without formal training:
- seek out hills at every opportunity
- ride with people who are stronger and faster than you (once the pandemic is over, obviously)
- listen to your body when it tells you that you need time to recover


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## Drago (8 May 2020)

Aside from improving your physical performance you need to learn to...

Ignore pain.

And that's it. I took a KoM recently and I knew before attempting it that the only way I would do it would be to just ignore pain for the 37 seconds it took me to do the deed. The moment I hit the end of the segment and eased off I nearly fainted.

Now that's an extreme example, but the fact remains that if you've been sedentary and are still fairly new to cycling it can take quite a long time to get used to pushing your body where it doesn't obviously want to go, even just a little bit. It'll come, that switch will flick in your brain, and all you can do is to push just that little bit harder, just 2 or 3 percent, than you really feel that you want to and eventually the zen will come to you.


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## Edwardoka (8 May 2020)

Drago said:


> Aside from improving your physical performance you need to learn to...
> 
> Ignore pain.
> 
> ...


I can't advocate ignoring pain - too easy to injure yourself or make yourself sick that way.

I'd say that it's more important to learn to recognise and interpret the signals your body is sending you, which comes mainly through the experience of what it's like to misinterpret them.

You can then use that experience to build the mental toughness needed to let you tune out unhelpful signals for hours on end or, as you say, for very short very sharp bursts.

All of my best rides happened when I've ended up far outside of my comfort zone and had no option but to keep pushing on (ironically all of my worst rides happened under the same circumstances )


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## Drago (8 May 2020)

I was thinking more pain in the lungs and the burn in the legs and buttocks, not joint paint or an impending heart attack. One would hope that anyone would just the tiniest bit of gumption would recognise the difference. But you got the idea - the mental fortitude to tune out and away from what your body is telling you.


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

Have you ever joined a cycling club to train with quicker cyclists? Maybe consider that when it’s possible again. Riding in a group will get your average up. Most faster groups will go further than your 20 miles tho.
How hilly are those 20 miles?
How’s the road surface?
And how busy? And how many junctions?

Certainly the above about lights and traffic is true. My average speed increased at the start of lockdown. Now it’s back to where it was as the traffic has got heavier


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## kingrollo (8 May 2020)

I have the same issue. I suspect a structured training regime is the answer.

However for me the more numbers you put in - the less fun cycling becomes. I just plod around enjoying my cycling - knowing I am fitter than if I did nowt..


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## kingrollo (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> Have you ever joined a cycling club to train with quicker cyclists? Maybe consider that when it’s possible again. Riding in a group will get your average up. Most faster groups will go further than your 20 miles tho.
> How hilly are those 20 miles?
> How’s the road surface?
> And how busy? And how many junctions?
> ...



And it's good fun too (club group riding) 

That and comuting to work have had the biggest impact on my fitness over the years.


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

kingrollo said:


> And it's good fun too (club group riding)


It’s not something that has ever appealed to me in the slightest but I’m not that hung up on speed, just getting out there for an hour or two. However, the OP may find it useful and enjoyable


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## lazybloke (8 May 2020)

There's something about motivation too.
Cycling to work is always slower than the ride back home.
A sense of occasion? My fastest sustained speeds are always during events like charity sportives.

Competition? If you see a fast cyclist ahead, try keeping/catching up.


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## winjim (8 May 2020)

Best speed improvement I ever had on my very unscientific Strava calculated regular little loop was when I bought some new shoes that actually fit me, compared to the old ones which were a size too big.


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## sleuthey (8 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi all, I've been cycling since 2015 and cycle 3 or 4 times a week and my average speed hasn't improved much from when I started around 12mph on a 20 mile loop, now I average around 13.5 mph on the same loop. Yesterday I did a shorter route with less gradients I just manage 13.6mph. Looking at my strava data most of my rides give my watts output of around 145 watts. Yesterday I was looking at a rider stats who I was following his watts output shows 116watts and averaging 15.6 mph on a 34 mile loop. I just want to improve my average speed to 15mph anybody could give me some advice?. Hope it make sense my eng!ish is not the good. Thanks.


Tell your speedometer that you have larger tyres than you do


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## Sharky (8 May 2020)

Firstly, Kent is very hilly. There is hardly a stretch of road that doesn't go up, then down every 100 yds. What part of Kent are you in?

Once you've ridden a route a few times and have got to know the ups and downs and assuming you are riding at "tempo" (a bit breathless), then average speeds will hardly vary. Only the weather is a factor. Over a season, you can expect average speeds to vary by about 2mph, but there should be no significant variations. Average speeds will increase very gradually over the years if you ride through all 4 seasons and start mixing with others in group/club rides.

My training loops on the North Downs give me an average speed between 12 to 14mph. Very occasionally on a perfect day, I might just get into a 15mph. But from this platform, I can ride our club 10 mile time trials on a flattish course and return 20-21mph.

You would be very welcome to try our 10's down in Grain if/when the lockdown is over.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 May 2020)

Quite simply if you want to get faster you need to train harder. If we keep doing the same we’ve always been doing then our fitness will initially improve then plateau. So you need to do some rides that really challenge you. Ones that really work your heart and lungs. Ones that really work the leg muscles.


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## Slick (8 May 2020)

lazybloke said:


> There's something about motivation too.
> Cycling to work is always slower than the ride back home.
> A sense of occasion? My fastest sustained speeds are always during events like charity sportives.
> 
> Competition? If you see a fast cyclist ahead, try keeping/catching up.


Funny how someone always has the opposite experience when someone posts their experiences  I'm definitely the opposite as my speed and motivation is much higher when going to work, so much so I can actually feel my legs stiffen in the last couple of hours of the day as my mind starts to plan the ride home. All my imagination of course but I've always put it down to being more of a morning guy with even my leisure rides being planned for as early as possible in the day because I feel the motivation drain from me the longer the day goes on.


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## lazybloke (8 May 2020)

Slick said:


> Funny how someone always has the opposite experience when someone posts their experiences  I'm definitely the opposite as my speed and motivation is much higher when going to work, so much so I can actually feel my legs stiffen in the last couple of hours of the day as my mind starts to plan the ride home. All my imagination of course but I've always put it down to being more of a morning guy with even my leisure rides being planned for as early as possible in the day because I feel the motivation drain from me the longer the day goes on.


We're all motivated by different things!


How about ruling out things that don't make a difference? My 12kg nearly 40 year old steel bike rebuilt on a budget (eg a set of wheels for £26) and with leather toe straps on the pedals, isn't slower than my modern, lighter, campag-equipped bike. The only advantage i see in the newer bike is indexed gears and no rust.

Edited to add: both are road bikes!


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## Sharky (8 May 2020)

lazybloke said:


> We're all motivated by different things!
> 
> 
> How about ruling out things that don't make a difference? My 12kg nearly 40 year old steel bike rebuilt on a budget (eg a set of wheels for £26) and with leather toe straps on the pedals, isn't slower than my modern, lighter, campag-equipped bike. The only advantage i see in the newer bike is indexed gears and no rust.


I can verify that. I have a single speed bike and a geared bike. I regularly turn out faster average speeds on my training loops than on my geared bike. But the hills hurt a lot more on the SS.

Another rider (who used to be on here) had an old fixed bike for time trials. Regularly turned out 23/24's for a 10. Then I believe he came into a bit of money and equipped himself with a decent geared TT bike - but didn't go any faster.


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## rogerzilla (8 May 2020)

A turbo trainer can speed you up a lot if you do 20 min sessions at TT pace.


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## Edwardoka (8 May 2020)

Drago said:


> I was thinking more pain in the lungs and the burn in the legs and buttocks, not joint paint or an impending heart attack. One would hope that anyone would just the tiniest bit of gumption would recognise the difference.


Joint pain is obvious, yes. Cardio, not so much.

I won't go into it too much (he says, going into it too much) but I had a wakeup call on one of my first rides back after a year off with injury.
A two hour slightly hilly ride, nothing too extreme. Felt slightly winded and tight-chested but otherwise as good as you'd expect for one coming back from injury and significantly heavier than pre-injury.
None of the normal sensations telling me to back off. No lactic acid, burning muscles or gasping, except the usual sensations on steeper climbs. I put being winded and tight-chested down to being unfit and my clothes being too tight.

Looking at the numbers after the ride showed I was in Z5/Z6 for the entire 2 hours. My average HR was 181, max was 196. (For comparison, my pre-injury numbers were ~145 avg/160 max, if fresh, and lower if tired, and my theoretical max HR was 182).

Cardiac stress test in the hospital showed that my heart was ok, but that I was redlining very easily and pushing my heart far harder than I realised.
I now watch my HR like a hawk when out on the bike rather than relying on feel. (And I'm never taking health for granted again.)


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## Joffey (8 May 2020)

What's is your perceived effort? Are you coming back feeling like you have had a really hard ride or aren't your legs feeling it at all?

You might just need to get used to riding at a higher intensity. I'm 106kg and ride Z2 heart rate (130-140bmp) and average 16mph - if I want to go harder I can and pick the average speed up but I don't really want to flog myself when just enjoying the scenery!


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## Archie_tect (8 May 2020)

Depends on the bike for me. 12mph average on the tandem with Mrs A_T equates to 14mph on the hybrid and 16mph on the road bike.


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## C R (8 May 2020)

Bike change made a big difference for me. In my old steel hybrid my overall average speed is around 13.5 mph, in the new aluminium road bike it is about 15.5. Not particularly fast, but noticeably faster in the new bike. I think the main factor in my case is riding position.


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> Have you ever joined a cycling club to train with quicker cyclists? Maybe consider that when it’s possible again. Riding in a group will get your average up. Most faster groups will go further than your 20 miles tho.
> How hilly are those 20 miles?
> How’s the road surface?
> And how busy? And how many junctions?
> ...


Joining a club never appeals to me


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> It’s not something that has ever appealed to me in the slightest but I’m not that hung up on speed, just getting out there for an hour or two. However, the OP may find it useful and enjoyable


Am the same as @


Sharky said:


> Firstly, Kent is very hilly. There is hardly a stretch of road that doesn't go up, then down every 100 yds. What part of Kent are you in?
> 
> Once you've ridden a route a few times and have got to know the ups and downs and assuming you are riding at "tempo" (a bit breathless), then average speeds will hardly vary. Only the weather is a factor. Over a season, you can expect average speeds to vary by about 2mph, but there should be no significant variations. Average speeds will increase very gradually over the years if you ride through all 4 seasons and start mixing with others in group/club rides.
> 
> ...


Grain is very windy with the Medway peninsula and you are correct with Kent being hilly


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

Joffey said:


> What's is your perceived effort? Are you coming back feeling like you have had a really hard ride or aren't your legs feeling it at all?
> 
> You might just need to get used to riding at a higher intensity. I'm 106kg and ride Z2 heart rate (130-140bmp) and average 16mph - if I want to go harder I can and pick the average speed up but I don't really want to flog myself when just enjoying the scenery!


My effects tend to be when I approached a short sharp climb am out of the saddle and push hard and my thigh do fell a little sore.


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## faster (8 May 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Joint pain is obvious, yes. Cardio, not so much.
> 
> I won't go into it too much (he says, going into it too much) but I had a wakeup call on one of my first rides back after a year off with injury.
> A two hour slightly hilly ride, nothing too extreme. Felt slightly winded and tight-chested but otherwise as good as you'd expect for one coming back from injury and significantly heavier than pre-injury.
> ...



This is exactly my experience. 

Out of interest, as I wasn't completely sure from reading your post, did you end up attributing this simply to being unfit at the time, or for other reasons?


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Am the same as @
> 
> Grain is very windy with the Medway peninsula and you are correct with Kent being hilly


How much ascent and descent in your 20 miles according to Strava via whatever device you use? How long in total does your 20 miles take you?
Have you been cycling all winter or just getting started again? If you’re doing 60 miles a week all year and have been for 5 years not so much a beginner.


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## Drago (8 May 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Joint pain is obvious, yes. Cardio, not so much.
> 
> I won't go into it too much (he says, going into it too much) but I had a wakeup call on one of my first rides back after a year off with injury.
> A two hour slightly hilly ride, nothing too extreme. Felt slightly winded and tight-chested but otherwise as good as you'd expect for one coming back from injury and significantly heavier than pre-injury.
> ...


I've had a heart attack and the difference between that and my heart simply turned up to 11 while cycling was night and day. Again, the pain of pushing your lower body muscles where they dont want to go is more than slightly different to a heart attack.


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> How much ascent and descent in your 20 miles according to Strava via whatever device you use? How long in total does your 20 miles take you?
> Have you been cycling all winter or just getting started again? If you’re doing 60 miles a week all year and have been for 5 years not so much a beginner.


Yesterday ride was flatter, but my pervious day ride see attached





I do cycle during the winter months and that’s only during the weekends.


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

that’s quite a lot of gain in 20 miles. Wear was the equivalent descent?


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> that’s quite a lot of gain in 20 miles. Wear was the equivalent descent?


Descent is 1194 ft


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Descent is 1194 ft


Ah so equal up and down


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## rivers (8 May 2020)

Structured training is key. I started a structured training plan on zwift at the start of lockdown to give me something to focus on while on the turbo, in addition to 2 x club turbo nights/week on zoom. I went out today for a ride on a route I know well. For the same solo effort, I am now about 2mph faster (gentle ride, not going for any PRs, just out enjoying the weather). My FTP has increased, hills are easier, and I generally felt stronger while out.


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## CXRAndy (8 May 2020)

The simple description is to ride with people who are faster or train at faster pace than you normally do.

First option join a club, expect to be worked hard, sometimes dropped, but if its a decent club, you will be encouraged.

Second option is to do short and medium time intervals. 30seconds to 10min where you ride above your normal pace. The shorter the interval the faster you ride eg 30 seconds is just about flat out. 

You keep repeating the intervals on a ride until you cant do them anymore. Recover before doing the second/third interval and so on.

I went from 16/17mph rides to 20mph. 

Losing weight certainly does help with hill climbing speed which will increase your average dramatically


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## vickster (8 May 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> The simple description is to ride with people who are faster or train at faster pace than you normally do.
> 
> First option join a club, expect to be worked hard, sometimes dropped, but if its a decent club, you will be encouraged.
> 
> ...


65kg at 5’8 doesn’t sound very heavy


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## cyberknight (8 May 2020)

vickster said:


> 65kg at 5’8 doesn’t sound very heavy


its not im 5 ft 7 "and im more like 69 , but then again its down to build i have track sprinter legs .


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## Crankarm (8 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi all am 5ft8in, weigh 65kg age 48 slight built, I got 2 road bike and a mountain bike. I tend to ride the road bike and I do put some effect in on my rides. I do have a cadence sensor average about 80rpm. Please see attached



You need to up your cadence to ride between about 90-100. 80 is too low. Your legs don't have the power at the moment to push heavier gears at the lower cadences you are currently riding to get the figures you want to see. In any case riding lower cadences pushing heavy gears is bad for your joints especially knees.

I would also look at what gearing you have on your bike what is your most comfortable gear and the gear you can comfortably accelerate in up to a max cadence. If you ride routes regularly you must know what gear you can hold at what cadence depending on the gradient and duration? Power data I guess would be nice but power meters are expensive, you don't need it. Maybe you have a HRM?

Back to gears, look at your cassette and see if there are any gears you could do without or indeed add. If there are big jumps up or down in the cassette missing out sequential intermediate sprockets you might benefit from a cassette with sprockets closer in size. If you ride flat routes get a cassette which has pretty much all sprockets with 1T difference. You might be able to ditch 11 and 12T sprockets of a cassette altogether perhaps just start at 13T going all the way up to 23T in even steps if 10spd or 25T if 11spd. Also if you are using a double chainset work out which gears are most useful you and any redundant over laps, typically use gear inches. Maybe change to a compact front chainset 50/34 if you have a 53/39 and are struggling to keep the pedals turning trying to push too heavy gears. A 53 x 11T or 12T combination is a monumentally huge gear for a newbie, plodder commuter, weekend warrior club type of rider to turn even going down hill with a following wind and wearing full Pro team kit.

But as already said pedal faster. Up your cadence. You need to increase your stamina.


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## Edwardoka (8 May 2020)

faster said:


> This is exactly my experience.
> 
> Out of interest, as I wasn't completely sure from reading your post, did you end up attributing this simply to being unfit at the time, or for other reasons?


Yes, for me it was down to a lack of fitness and drinking stupidly large amounts of coffee.

I'm not a doctor and everyone's experience and body is different, signs like being winded and tight-chested when exercising are not to be ignored, particularly if backed up with data. If I'd kept riding at the intensity I was, I'd have damaged myself.

There's a history of heart disease in my family, with angina on one side and heart failure on the other, but the cardiac test didn't find anything wrong with me, no arrythmias or bp abnormalities, it was simply that on the bike my legs and lungs were able to write cheques that my heart couldn't cash.


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## marzjennings (8 May 2020)

Sprints and interval training always works for me if I wanted to bump up power and speed numbers. You can google and find an training model that works for you. For me I have a 45 minute exercise I got from my track coach years ago. 

5 min warm up
1st 5 min interval
2nd 5 min interval
3rd 5 min interval
5 min spin
4th 5 min interval
5th 5 min interval
6th 5 min interval
5 min cool down spin

Each interval is a combination of meduim/fast pedaling and all out sprint. When I start doing this exercise I start with 4 min fast and 1 min sprint. Heart rate is about maxed out for the sprint and by the 3rd and 6th sprint I can barely finish. After a few of weeks of doing this exercise maybe just once or twice a week I'm riding 2 mins fast and 3 min sprint. About puking on the last sprint. 

The trick is to find a nice quiet section of road, about a mile or so in length, minimal traffic, no lights or junctions.


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

Crankarm said:


> You need to up your cadence to ride between about 90-100. 80 is too low. Your legs don't have the power at the moment to push heavier gears at the lower cadences you are currently riding to get the figures you want to see. In any case riding lower cadences pushing heavy gears is bad for your joints especially knees.
> 
> I would also look at what gearing you have on your bike what is your most comfortable gear and the gear you can comfortably accelerate in up to a max cadence. If you ride routes regularly you must know what gear you can hold at what cadence depending on the gradient and duration? Power data I guess would be nice but power meters are expensive, you don't need it. Maybe you have a HRM?
> 
> ...


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

Thanks @Edwardoka both my road bike are compact 50/34 one bike is 32/11 and the other is 28/11. I tend to ride on the big ring on the front and roughly the middle sprocket on the back. But I do struggle a bit on the 28/11 especially on big hills. I will take your advice and try to improve my cadence.


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## Edwardoka (8 May 2020)

Drago said:


> I've had a heart attack and the difference between that and my heart simply turned up to 11 while cycling was night and day. Again, the pain of pushing your lower body muscles where they dont want to go is more than slightly different to a heart attack.


Ah man, I didn't know. Glad you've recovered enough to be able to bag KOMs 

However, not all heart attacks are the same, as i say, heart disease runs in my family, three of my uncles have had heart attacks, and they all manifested completely differently (one initially thought it was bad indigestion, tried to walk it off, and walked several miles to the hospital, another was fine one second and gone the next with no outward signs, the other had the classic chest-clutching crying-out-in-terrible pain)

I don't want to derail the thread about cycling faster any more than I already have so will leave it there.


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> , I've been cycling since 2015 and cycle 3 or 4 times a week and my average speed hasn't improved much from when I started around 12mph on a 20 mile loop, now I average around 13.5 mph on the same loop. Yesterday I did a shorter route with less gradients I just manage 13.6mph.



Forget about strava and obsessing about average speeds. Stat-chasing is a load of shite that isn't worth worrying about. I've been riding various bikes for over 45 years and my average speed for a tarmac-only ride of 20-ish miles usually comes in at about 11.5 MPH. If I was to kill myself I'd be able to increase that by a couple of MPH, but I really can't be arsed. Nobody is paying my wages to ride as fast as possible, so I just concentrate on enjoying the scenery and getting some fresh air.
What speeds other riders may achieve isn't important, for a whole load of reasons; type of bike, riding position, power output, rider weight, age, level of fitness, weather conditions, wind direction, ambient temperature etc. Huge number of variables at play.


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## johnnyb47 (8 May 2020)

I restarted my cycling adventures nearly 4 years ago. I was overweight and mentally drained with personal issues. The bike i was using was my beloved heavy old Steel Peugeot road bike.
My average speeds were around 13-14 mph.
After spending many a few 1000 miles cycling my need for speed has taken the bait.
I Lost around 3 stone and upgraded to a more modern light weight bike. The speeds slowly increased over time. I found doing really long rides followed by a good recovery time helped me increase my speed on a short 10 mile stint on the next outing. A good set of Wheels and tyres also seemed to make a difference to. If you're back and wrists can take it, ride on the drops for as long as you can. You don't notice instant speed improvements there and then, but over a long ride, the improved aero position soon mounts up to a better average. Sitting on the drops is now my default position. It can be hard to do for long periods but over time your body gets used to it. I think it's a combination of this that improves avg speed.
I now avg around 17-19 mph but still get thrashed by my mates lol, so there's still improvements to be made.
At the end of the day though speed is not the "be all" of the day. Enjoyment and good well-being is equally as important as health states. I just find it fascinating understanding and learning what makes a cyclist a fast cyclist.
Could i ask what tyres and pressure you are running them at. I have found that running 700c x 28 vitoria rubino pro on a set of fulcrum wheels really changed my avg for the better 👍


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## cyberknight (8 May 2020)

Crankarm said:


> You need to up your cadence to ride between about 90-100. 80 is too low. Your legs don't have the power at the moment to push heavier gears at the lower cadences you are currently riding to get the figures you want to see. In any case riding lower cadences pushing heavy gears is bad for your joints especially knees.
> 
> I would also look at what gearing you have on your bike what is your most comfortable gear and the gear you can comfortably accelerate in up to a max cadence. If you ride routes regularly you must know what gear you can hold at what cadence depending on the gradient and duration? Power data I guess would be nice but power meters are expensive, you don't need it. Maybe you have a HRM?
> 
> ...


Research has found for beginners high cadence is actually inefficient
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/...-cadence-cycling-has-no-benefit-for-amateurs/
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26305270/high-cadence-cycling-not-increase-speed/
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/why-amateurs-shouldnt-try-to-pedal-like-chris-froome-191779
https://blog.mapmyrun.com/cadence-high-4-symptoms-spinning/
http://www.220triathlon.com/training/bike/should-you-pedal-at-a-high-cadence/12798.html
I am not saying the OP might not need to increase cadence but it has been shown high cadence is not the magic pill


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## lazybloke (8 May 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Forget about strava and obsessing about average speeds. Stat-chasing is a load of shite that isn't worth worrying about. I've been riding various bikes for over 45 years and my average speed for a tarmac-only ride of 20-ish miles usually comes in at about 11.5 MPH. If I was to kill myself I'd be able to increase that by a couple of MPH, but I really can't be arsed. Nobody is paying my wages to ride as fast as possible, so I just concentrate on enjoying the scenery and getting some fresh air.
> What speeds other riders may achieve isn't important, for a whole load of reasons; type of bike, riding position, power output, rider weight, age, level of fitness, weather conditions, wind direction, ambient temperature etc. Huge number of variables at play.


There's a lot to be said for slowing down and just enjoying the ride, but some folk like to go fast too.


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## kiwifruit (8 May 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> I restarted my cycling adventures nearly 4 years ago. I was overweight and mentally drained with personal issues. The bike i was using was my beloved heavy old Steel Peugeot road bike.
> My average speeds were around 13-14 mph.
> After spending many a few 1000 miles cycling my need for speed has taken the bait.
> I Lost around 3 stone and upgraded to a more modern light weight bike. The speeds slowly increased over time. I found doing really long rides followed by a good recovery time helped me increase my speed on a short 10 mile stint on the next outing. A good set of Wheels and tyres also seemed to make a difference to. If you're back and wrists can take it, ride on the drops for as long as you can. You don't notice instant speed improvements there and then, but over a long ride, the improved aero position soon mounts up to a better average. Sitting on the drops is now my default position. It can be hard to do for long periods but over time your body gets used to it. I think it's a combination of this that improves avg speed.
> ...


I have 2 bikes both on mavic askium wheels the Orbea disc bike I use 700 x 25mm Vitoria Rubino pro at 90 psi and the other bike Rim brake I use Michelin Pro 4 endurance 700x 25mm also at 90psi.


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## HLaB (9 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi all am 5ft8in, weigh 65kg age 48 slight built, I got 2 road bike and a mountain bike. I tend to ride the road bike and I do put some effect in on my rides. I do have a cadence sensor average about 80rpm. Please see attached


You've got the tools to go faster (not heavy and right bikes) and 80rpm if its your natural cadence isn't bad especially in Kent. Whilst Kent isn't flat you can definitely get faster with training. Flat out interval sessions and rest days is probably the best way to develop. Perhaps if you have not already done so get some clipped in pedals as well (spds, et al) may help to a degree.


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## PaulSB (9 May 2020)

vickster said:


> that’s quite a lot of gain in 20 miles. Wear was the equivalent descent?



In my part of the world, Lancashire, this would be a flat, easy ride.

Out of interest is this amount of gain heading towards what you would consider hilly? Where would one find this sort of terrain in the UK?


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## nickyboy (9 May 2020)

Ok, taking that one ride you posted. It was 18 miles at about 50ft climbing per mile. Rolling but not really hilly. You did 13.8mph

Now I'm older than you and about 18kg heavier than you. I could do your ride at about 17.5mph. So why aren't you?

It isn't the bike. Well, it might be a little bit. But it isn't a big deal

It's you. You say you're doing similar miles per week to me (80-100). Now I'm no natural athlete, to do 17.5mph on your ride I would have to push quite hard all the ride and I'd be pretty tired at the end. 

All I can conclude is that you've got the wherewithal to ride quite a bit faster (unless some health condition prevents) but you're not pushing yourself hard enough and there is plenty left in the tank


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## nickyboy (9 May 2020)

For example I'm about to go out and do 30 miles with 3,000ft of climbing. Hilly, so you should be able to thrash me as I'm lugging 18kg up the hills that you're not

I will average about 13.8. But that's by working hard and coming home tired. Afraid there is no magic bullet of gearing, cadence etc etc. You just need to push yourself more


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## Venod (9 May 2020)

cyberknight said:


> I am not saying the OP might not need to increase cadence but it has been shown high cadence is not the magic pill



I agree with this cadence is a very individual thing, the ops 80 rpm is good, but increasing it may make him faster, that's why I suggested using the cadence readout, in the ops case when travelling at 15 mph @ 80 rpm I would change down a gear and up the cadence until the speed is more than 15 mph and see if its still comfortable.

https://www.roadbikerider.com/whats-the-optimal-cycling-cadence/


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## vickster (9 May 2020)

PaulSB said:


> In my part of the world, Lancashire, this would be a flat, easy ride.
> 
> Out of interest is this amount of gain heading towards what you would consider hilly? Where would one find this sort of terrain in the UK?


S/he is in Kent
I’m in SW London, you can do 20 miles with pretty much no gain if you ride along / around the Thames


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## derrick (9 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi all, I've been cycling since 2015 and cycle 3 or 4 times a week and my average speed hasn't improved much from when I started around 12mph on a 20 mile loop, now I average around 13.5 mph on the same loop. Yesterday I did a shorter route with less gradients I just manage 13.6mph. Looking at my strava data most of my rides give my watts output of around 145 watts. Yesterday I was looking at a rider stats who I was following his watts output shows 116watts and averaging 15.6 mph on a 34 mile loop. I just want to improve my average speed to 15mph anybody could give me some advice?. Hope it make sense my eng!ish is not the good. Thanks.


Don't know how old you are, But plenty of room for improvement, I am a 68 year old pensioner, This is yesterdays ride. https://www.strava.com/activities/3417823718
Before lockdown i was riding with guys a lot younger, you need to ride with faster people to give you that push you need, I found that loop a few weeks back, i try to better my time each time i ride it, I have done it three times on my own, and have knocked a few seconds of each time, twice with my other half, she was faster the second time she did it. Just push yourself harder, it ain't hard if you want it.


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## Globalti (9 May 2020)

Here's the answer: don't train; take the train. Wait for a really windy day then take a train out into the wind and ride home with the wind. You'll feel like a cycling God and your average will increase by 5 mph.


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## kiwifruit (9 May 2020)

derrick said:


> Don't know how old you are, But plenty of room for improvement, I am a 68 tear old pensioner, This is yesterdays ride. https://www.strava.com/activities/3417823718
> Before lockdown i was riding with guys a lot younger, you need to ride with faster people to give you that push you need, I found that loop a few weeks back, i try to better my time each time i ride it, I have done it three times on my own, and have knocked a few seconds of each time, twice with my other half, she was faster the second time she did it. Just push yourself harder, it ain't hard if you want it.


Am age 48, I just like to reach average mph to at least 15. You are 20 years old and the speed you do I take my hat to you.👏👏


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## neil_merseyside (9 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Am age 48, I just like to reach average mph to at least 15. You are 20 years old and the speed you do I take my hat to you.👏👏


I'm 58 and I can now thrash myself to get to 15mph solo, when riding in a group that same speed is (or seems) much easier, so don't dismiss a group as a training aid. I could never average more than 12-13 before I started joining group rides to stretch me, you don't have to do much more than ride along with a group, no great need to chat and socialise (especially if you can't breathe). 
Most CTC groups are a gang of loners


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## Mr Celine (9 May 2020)

Try going for a longer ride. I don't think I've ever managed a 20 mile loop at more than 14 mph but a more normal for me evening 30 mile loop is always at least 15 mph. Last weekend's 50 mile ride was 16.3 mph.
Beyond 50 miles my average speed stops increasing. I rarely go more than 100km but the few occasions I have, including 100 miles, have all been at more than 16 mph. 

I'm not sure why this is. It could be that it takes me at least 8 miles until I feel warmed up and during that part of the ride I'm not going so fast. Those 8 miles are a bigger percentage of a short ride than of a long one.


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## Tom B (9 May 2020)

Fitness fitness fitness.

If you think about it all races from the TdF to the kids in the street are about average pace.

I have not idea what parameters starva uses to calculate average pace and it's not something I look at. I do however know that it's often significantly different from the ave pace on my Garmin, and looking at a few commutes from this week my pace varies from between 16.9 and 12.7mph. I dare say stopping for junctions / slowing for lights (I'm a slow and crawl to red lights sort) affects this. My fitness certainly hasn't improved that much over the week.


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## PaulSB (9 May 2020)

vickster said:


> S/he is in Kent
> I’m in SW London, you can do 20 miles with pretty much no gain if you ride along / around the Thames


Thanks.......that explains it.


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## Globalti (9 May 2020)

My average solo is between 13 and 14.5 mph depending on wind and hills. With a competitive buddy that can increase to 15-16 mph but only for a couple of hours. Best ever was a local Wednesday evening road club TT on a hilly circuit where I just managed 20 mph over 10 miles. That was a huge effort. I daresay that might be more easily achievable on a flat circuit with no wind.


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## PaulSB (10 May 2020)

@kiwifruit I've been thinking about your question and think it should be pointed out there are many different factors which I have experienced which have helped me increase my averages and overall performance for want of a better word. For me there is no such thing as one cyclist being better than another, we are all simply cyclists with differing abilities which are influenced by a wide range of factors.

I'm 65 and frankly enjoying the form of my life - a fact not a boast. I enjoy two types of riding, simple bike rides bowling along at +/- 80% of effort and on a flat ride this will average 15/16 solo and around 16-19 with a group and dependent on how we feel on the day. I should say flat here is what some consider hilly. My other pleasure is climbs and hills, sometimes I just enjoy riding them, other times I go for it. For example on yesterday's easy ride of 32 miles, 2500 feet avg 15.1 and included two of my favourite local climbs. Last Sunday I did the club hill climbing challenge and rode 20 miles, 3084 feet, 10.8 avg, knowing the climbs I had to do I ambled along between climbs.

So what are all the different factors which influence our speeds? The first has to be time. I'm four years in to retirement and ride 150/200 miles/week. Every mile helps. My rides vary between 30ish miles for training to 70/80 for a ride and cafe with friends. I've changed both my pedalling and climbing technique. Lost weight. Learned to relax more on the bike. Three years ago I bought a new bike, it makes a huge difference. March 2019 I invested in very good wheels and tubeless tyres, again it made a huge difference, around 2-3mph on the flat. Get your head right, know you can do it. Much good cycling is done in the mind. The last thing is pain! To get better one has to be prepared to ride through the hurting. I don't mean physically damaging oneself but pushing on when your legs are screaming stop, the breathing is hard and all you want to do is stop - next time it will be easier. This aspect is best achieved with a group which runs at above your personal average or comfort zone.

To my mind all of the above influences speed and performance. Different riders will pick out different aspects. I am not suggesting to get better people have to buy better bikes but I am saying in my experience a better bike and good wheels does considerably improve the rider's overall performance.


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## Racing roadkill (10 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Hi all, I've been cycling since 2015 and cycle 3 or 4 times a week and my average speed hasn't improved much from when I started around 12mph on a 20 mile loop, now I average around 13.5 mph on the same loop. Yesterday I did a shorter route with less gradients I just manage 13.6mph. Looking at my strava data most of my rides give my watts output of around 145 watts. Yesterday I was looking at a rider stats who I was following his watts output shows 116watts and averaging 15.6 mph on a 34 mile loop. I just want to improve my average speed to 15mph anybody could give me some advice?. Hope it make sense my eng!ish is not the good. Thanks.


Plan your rides so as the wind is behind you ( tail wind ) as much as possible. Buy a heart monitor ( or power meter(s) preferably) work out your FTP ( functional threshold power / the maximum power you can sustain for 1 hour ) then ride ‘intervals’. That’s segments of time in various ‘power zones’ based on your FTP. The key figure, if your comparing your outputs and resultant speeds, to others, is your Power to weight ratio, as someone who’s lighter, putting out the same power as you, on the same day, on the same route, in the same conditions, with the same ( or very similar bike / set up ) would almost certainly have a higher speed, because their power / weight ratio would be higher. You’ve also got to try to not get too hung up about average speeds, as they are a pretty rubbish metric by which to measure your performance, as there are too many external factors beyond your control, that can influence them negatively. Power is Power, work on increasing that, and / or reducing weight, and your speeds will increase ( in given conditions / terrain / routes / bike set up). Ultimately, the fitter you are, the easier you will find it to up your Power / weight ratio, so that’s the bottom line really, increase fitness.


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## kiwifruit (10 May 2020)

PaulSB said:


> @kiwifruit I've been thinking about your question and think it should be pointed out there are many different factors which I have experienced which have helped me increase my averages and overall performance for want of a better word. For me there is no such thing as one cyclist being better than another, we are all simply cyclists with differing abilities which are influenced by a wide range of factors.
> 
> I'm 65 and frankly enjoying the form of my life - a fact not a boast. I enjoy two types of riding, simple bike rides bowling along at +/- 80% of effort and on a flat ride this will average 15/16 solo and around 16-19 with a group and dependent on how we feel on the day. I should say flat here is what some consider hilly. My other pleasure is climbs and hills, sometimes I just enjoy riding them, other times I go for it. For example on yesterday's easy ride of 32 miles, 2500 feet avg 15.1 and included two of my favourite local climbs. Last Sunday I did the club hill climbing challenge and rode 20 miles, 3084 feet, 10.8 avg, knowing the climbs I had to do I ambled along between climbs.
> 
> ...


I did in one point I thought I was improving well even doing the London ride 💯 in an average of 14.9mph. Since then it just been on avg 13.5mph.


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## HLaB (10 May 2020)

The motivation, crowd drag etc on events like Ride London pulls you along.

Do you fuel (eat/drink) correctly/often?


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## Ming the Merciless (10 May 2020)

How does your speed vary over your rides. If you look at the Strava analysis does it look like your average speed remains constant over the whole ride or do you slow down at some point which shows up the graph?


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## kiwifruit (10 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> The motivation, crowd drag etc on events like Ride London pulls you along.
> 
> Do you fuel (eat/drink) correctly/often?


Normally in the early morning rides I just tend to have a banana and a cereal bar with a cup of tea, and take 750ml of electrolyte drink and a cereal bar in case I need it for an 20 mile ride.


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## kiwifruit (10 May 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> How does your speed vary over your rides. If you look at the Strava analysis does it look like your average speed remains constant over the whole ride or do you slow down at some point which shows up the graph?


Looking at the graph I did struggle a bit on the hills otherwise I think is constant over the whole ride.


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## HLaB (10 May 2020)

kiwifruit said:


> Normally in the early morning rides I just tend to have a banana and a cereal bar with a cup of tea, and take 750ml of electrolyte drink and a cereal bar in case I need it for an 20 ride.


That's reasonable for a 20 miler for your weight, hopefully you are remembering to use it. I'm a bit lighter than you at present, last year I weighed the same. I am 4 years younger than you but older folk 'kick my ass'; depending upon the event/ terrain etc I average anything from 15mph to 25mph. Its seems to be harking back to training for you, good luck


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## kiwifruit (10 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> That's reasonable for a 20 miler for your weight, hopefully you are remembering to use it. I'm a bit lighter than you at present, last year I weighed the same. I am 4 years younger than you but older folk 'kick my ass'; depending upon the event/ terrain etc I average anything from 15mph to 25mph. Its seems to be harking back to training for you, good luck


Thank you


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## nickyboy (10 May 2020)

PaulSB said:


> @kiwifruit I've been thinking about your question and think it should be pointed out there are many different factors which I have experienced which have helped me increase my averages and overall performance for want of a better word. For me there is no such thing as one cyclist being better than another, we are all simply cyclists with differing abilities which are influenced by a wide range of factors.
> 
> I'm 65 and frankly enjoying the form of my life - a fact not a boast. I enjoy two types of riding, simple bike rides bowling along at +/- 80% of effort and on a flat ride this will average 15/16 solo and around 16-19 with a group and dependent on how we feel on the day. I should say flat here is what some consider hilly. My other pleasure is climbs and hills, sometimes I just enjoy riding them, other times I go for it. For example on yesterday's easy ride of 32 miles, 2500 feet avg 15.1 and included two of my favourite local climbs. Last Sunday I did the club hill climbing challenge and rode 20 miles, 3084 feet, 10.8 avg, knowing the climbs I had to do I ambled along between climbs.
> 
> ...


We cycle in very similar terrain. I'm younger than you but, weighing 86kg, I am probably a fair bit heavier. I also can't commit to more than about 100 miles per week. I'm probably slightly slower than you; 32 miles at 2500ft I'd do at about 14.5mph

But there the differences end. Like you, I ride through the hurting on climbs, where you're gasping for breath and the legs are screaming. I also upgraded to some reasonably fancy wheels and I use Conti 5000 tyres which aren't cheap but the roll well. What I find is that for two hour rides I can push hard for the full two hours without getting fatigued. Longer rides (which I'm not doing atm) I can't. So doing 4 x 2 hour hard efforts a week is pushing my fitness and I'm probably 1mph quicker than I was a few months ago. If you want to get fitter you really have to get outside what's comfortable (which, of course, isn't what everyone wants from their cycling)

As an example of this I ride with a guy. He and I have been similar pace for past few years. He has a place in Florida and goes there for months. While he's there he's taken to riding with younger cyclists in a chain gang. Initially he was shot out the back as pace was 20mph+ for 60 miles. But he stuck at it and now he copes with the pace. When he comes home he murders me, I can't keep up. The chain gang isn't a relaxing, social ride. But his improvement in fitness is huge


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## RoadRider400 (10 May 2020)

If you can cycle at 15mph for a few hundred metres then you have the potential to eventually achieve that over 34 miles, it just takes some hard graft. When I first started road cycling a year ago I asked a very similar question to you. Its just a case of keep putting in the miles week in week out and eventually the average speed will start to increase. Dont think too much about your speed when out there, just put in the effort but most importantly remember to enjoy it.

It might not sound like it but increasing your average by 1.5mph over 20 miles is good going. You will not become a 15mph rider overnight. It will take some time.


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## Kevfm (10 May 2020)

What's the difference in average speeds between what people do solo compared with a group run? As a beginner of less than 3 months experience I've only ever ridden solo. I'd be interested to know if I could keep up on a group run or if I need to up my game a bit first.


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## PaulSB (10 May 2020)

Kevfm said:


> What's the difference in average speeds between what people do solo compared with a group run? As a beginner of less than 3 months experience I've only ever ridden solo. I'd be interested to know if I could keep up on a group run or if I need to up my game a bit first.


The rule of thumb is that it is 30% easier to ride in the centre of a group. Solo I can average 15/16 depending on the route. In a group I can hold my own at 18/19 over 70/80 miles though we do usually average around 17 as that's where we feel happiest.

You should be able to find a club with a group run that suits whatever speed you are currently riding at. My number one tip is do NOT ride at the back. Newcomers always do this and struggle. Get in the middle of the pack around the 4/5/6 position to get the most benefit from group riding.


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## vickster (10 May 2020)

Kevfm said:


> What's the difference in average speeds between what people do solo compared with a group run? As a beginner of less than 3 months experience I've only ever ridden solo. I'd be interested to know if I could keep up on a group run or if I need to up my game a bit first.


Most clubs of any size have different groups with different average speeds. Check your local ones (of course they’re not allowed to operate club runs at the moment)


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## Sharky (10 May 2020)

The difference is huge. Riding behind somebody takes a lot less energy. But also takes quite a bit of skill which needs to be learned. You need to make excessive efforts at times to stay on somebodies wheel, then once in the slipstream it becomes easy and you can recover. Also making note of wind direction and riding on the sheltered side of the rider in front. 

But don't wait for some mystical sign, join a club and get some first hand experience.


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## johnnyb47 (10 May 2020)

It makes a massive difference riding in a group. If you look at strava rides of peoples segments, the daily top ones are at usually virtually the same and realise they've been riding in a group. Last year i cycled with a group who where much stronger than me,and they where kind enough to let me just sit on there wheels for most of the ride.. I found my average was a lot higher than i would normally do if solo. Riding behind i could just about keep up with them without breaking into a quivering wreck. When i took the front lead though i felt i was holding them back..


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## Ming the Merciless (10 May 2020)

Huge difference. Remember years ago a cyclist overtook me and I tucked in behind him. I ended up 1 mph faster and my HR was 20 bpm lower. That’s huge; you could go from breathing out your arse, to holding a conversation. Even greater effect in a larger group.


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## neil_merseyside (10 May 2020)

Riding in a group shelters you, so you'll cope with a step up in both average speed and distance, it rubs off on solo rides afterwards. I went away to Spain just before the C19 madness and rode with a social group out there - I was quite stretched as it was way faster than my usual group, I barely coped/then coped/then enjoyed over 6 weeks, so now my solo average has improved by 2-3mph and I can climb better (though still too heavy to do it properly...). 
When group riding is again allowed (and actually safe) I'll go out with faster groups to be stretched again.


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## Kevfm (10 May 2020)

Thanks for the replies (an slight apologies for hijacking the thread). I'd definitely benefit from a group from the motivational side as well as the physical one and it sounds like fun. I should be OK with some of the speeds mentioned although I'll need to up my distances a bit. I'll look into a local club when C-19 allows.


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## derrick (10 May 2020)

Kevfm said:


> What's the difference in average speeds between what people do solo compared with a group run? As a beginner of less than 3 months experience I've only ever ridden solo. I'd be interested to know if I could keep up on a group run or if I need to up my game a bit first.


This is a group ride i did a few years ago.https://www.strava.com/activities/301362611 To do this solo i would average roughly about 16mph.


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## Racing roadkill (10 May 2020)

In a group, if you know what you’re doing, you can save 40 percent of your effort by draughting. However, your average speed then flatters to deceive. Your output was lower, than when you were soloing, but your speed was higher. This is a prime example of why taking an average speed as a metric for performance / improvement in performance is pretty much useless. You can’t argue with VO2 max, power, lactate threshold, Max H.R. you can argue with average speeds, it’s easy to blag those.
Today I did this, solo.





Horrific headwind, no draughting. 2.8 W/Kg, gets me 15.7mph average speed, on a fairly flat course.
However, this





at 2.4 W/Kg, with a few ‘lumps’ in the course, on the same bike, with no headwind and lots of draughting gets 18.7mph average. That’s 3mph faster difference, with 0.4 W/Kg lower output, and it included a couple of climbs.


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## NotAsGoodAsMyBike (10 May 2020)

For me, my average speed is better when I’m actually focusing on cycling (instead of thinking about work, pretty landscape etc) - I find it‘s all too easy to zone out and pedal away for miles without actually pushing down particularly hard on the pedals. Structured training on the turbo helps (I use Sufferfest or TrainerRoad in the winter) but sometimes it can be as simple as deciding that today I’m going to stand out of the saddle and push hard up every hill (or alternate the hills standing and seating). Varying a route can help too as it stops it becoming too familiar. 

I have only come back to regular cycling recently after medical issues kept me largely off the bike for a couple of years. I’ve lost what little thigh muscle I had and no core strength either. Building it back up is helping improve my average speed but regaining muscle/stamina is hard and at the beginning, even cycling for more than 90 mins was a challenge because of the pain in my neck from my rubbish posture on the bike. Good luck!


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## boydj (10 May 2020)

PaulSB said:


> The rule of thumb is that it is 30% easier to ride in the centre of a group. Solo I can average 15/16 depending on the route. In a group I can hold my own at 18/19 over 70/80 miles though we do usually average around 17 as that's where we feel happiest.
> 
> You should be able to find a club with a group run that suits whatever speed you are currently riding at. My number one tip is do NOT ride at the back. Newcomers always do this and struggle. Get in the middle of the pack around the 4/5/6 position to get the most benefit from group riding.



A newcomer to group riding should, with the permission of the group, spend enough time riding at the back to develop the skills and learn the group etiquette and signals. This might take just the early part of the run, or it might take two or three runs depending on the cycling experience of the new group member. It's not easy riding at the back, because every slowing down for corners or traffic means an effort to get back on. But it is safer for everybody than having an inexperienced rider in the middle of a bunch - better to get dropped than bringing down other riders.

Of course this also depends on the group - a club's slow group will probably have a looser structure and a no-drop rule, while the faster groups will have a tight formation and the only concession may be a re-group at the top of longer hills and a wait for mechanicals.


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## CXRAndy (10 May 2020)

Group riding can be hugely rewarding in speed, but it comes with a fair bit of mental commitment. Unless you're on the front, it requires you to cover your brakes at all times, never overlap wheels with the rider in front. listen and watch out for warnings and be aware of obstacle direction changes of the riders in front. It can be quite mentally draining if its a fast paced ride.

I've done solo rides of around 16-18 mph, for 40 miles, club group rides up to 80 miles at 19 mph and a competitive sportive at 21mph over 80miles. 

It takes constant riding to build your stamina and pace to go faster. These days I prefer to ride solo or tiny groups to enjoy a steadier pace. Btw most of your riding should be steady Z2 over multiple hours to build a strong endurance base.


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## RoadRider400 (10 May 2020)

I dont really get this point about suggesting he joins a group to increase his average speed. Its the significantly reduced drag thats increasing the speed of the bike, not any adaptations in the bloke doing the pedalling. Why not just tell him to chuck the bike in the back of his car and drive it around the route?!


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## HLaB (10 May 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> I dont really get this point about suggesting he joins a group to increase his average speed. Its the significantly reduced drag thats increasing the speed of the bike, not any adaptations in the bloke doing the pedalling. Why not just tell him to chuck the bike in the back of his car and drive it around the route?!


You're forgetting that joining a good group will provide more motivation to be sustainably fast or when you are close to being dropped that motivation to hang on a bit longer (endure). When they are solo they will have developed that sustainability and endurance and go faster. That's what happened to me and I think a few folk have pointed to similar


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## lane (10 May 2020)

During the lockdown I am doing more but shorter sharper rides. This seems to be helping a bit with my average speed.


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## RoadRider400 (11 May 2020)

HLaB said:


> You're forgetting that joining a good group will provide more motivation to be sustainably fast or when you are close to being dropped that motivation to hang on a bit longer (endure). When they are solo they will have developed that sustainability and endurance and go faster. That's what happened to me and I think a few folk have pointed to similar


Given that OP has already stated "Joining a club never appeals to me ", I think your belief that a group will motivate them is somewhat misplaced. Yeah it would motivate people into that sort of thing, but group cycling does not appeal to all.


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## BigMeatball (11 May 2020)

Just change your settings from mph to kph for the instant illusion of increased speed


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## HLaB (11 May 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Given that OP has already stated "Joining a club never appeals to me ", I think your belief that a group will motivate them is somewhat misplaced. Yeah it would motivate people into that sort of thing, but group cycling does not appeal to all.


You're right it might not motivate them, if they tried it they might find different and it could be an option but hey ho


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