# What Am I Doing Wrong ?



## G-Zero (26 Mar 2012)

Failed a 20% hill climb.... again !

In December I ended up on a local hill (Peth Bank, Lanchester) on my Crosser and after crashing my gears, I ended up pushing the bike up the last steep bit 

I didn't know it at the time, but the hill has a bit of a reputation locally and a roadie friend of mine regularly trains on it.

I didn't have much time on my hands today to get a long ride in, so decided on a quick 21 miler on the road bike and decided that since I've put close to a thousand miles in since my last attempt, I had another go at "The Peth".

I was about 8 miles in to the ride and nicely warmed up and settled in to the climb nicely, staying in my seat and dropping to my lower cog on the front in plenty of time and reducing the rear to my lowest gear just in time for the steepest pert of the hill and keeping standing up in reserve for the final push.

I stayed seated for as long as I could and was only out of the saddle for a few seconds, before my legs and chest gave out at about the same time. I just managed to unclip in time before feeling my leg muscles head towards spasm; and I can't even blame fluffing the gears this time round  

I feel as if my general fitness is good and I'm regularly doing 50-60 mile rides, including some fairly steep hills, I timed the gears correctly, so IMO that only leaves my hill fitness as lacking.

Is the best way to train for steep hills, to get more steep hills in, or is there something else I could be doing on my longer and not so hilly routes to improve my hill climbing.


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## BrumJim (26 Mar 2012)

Sorry - hills is hills.

I'd say that pacing is the critical thing here. You are out of energy before you get to the top. Take the bottom part even more steadily, and don't get out of breath until you can see the summit.


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## ColinJ (26 Mar 2012)

People will argue with me, but I think the best way to train for steep hills is to equip yourself with low enough gears to be able to ride up them and then practise doing so!

I currently weigh 16 stone and am not very fit, but I can get up 20% climbs because I use a 30/28 bottom gear on them. If I had a 39/25 (or something similar), I'd be walking, which would not help me improve my cycling fitness.


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## VamP (26 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> People will argue with me, but I think the best way to train for steep hills is to equip yourself with low enough gears to be able to ride up them and then practise doing so!
> 
> I currently weigh 16 stone and am not very fit, but I can get up 20% climbs because I use a 30/28 bottom gear on them. If I had a 39/25 (or something similar), I'd be walking, which would not help me improve my cycling fitness.


 
I won't argue with you Colin! 

Having the right gear range for the job is just sensible.

For the OP - you may have reserves in pacing, it's not clear how fast you were in the initial stages of the hill. You may have reserves in fitness, and you may have reserves in weight loss opportunity. Riding more hills should help with all of those.

And of course, your bottom gear might be preventing you from pacing yourself correctly.


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## HLaB (26 Mar 2012)

If you don't want to change (lower) your gearing practice is the only real way. It might be the hill is better tackled with a short hard push standing up in a higher gear or it might be better to sit down and spin (sitting upright and relaxing) or it could be something in between (changing the muscle groups you are using) and it will probably also depend on your/external conditions on the day. With the hill you are describing it might be best to sit down at the start, stand up in the middle (raising your gear) and sit down again towards the top and/or lower your gear. It helps psychologically if you know when the going gets tough that you have another lower gear to go into.


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## G-Zero (26 Mar 2012)

Thanks for your replies, although I have to admit to not fully understanding the technicalities around gearing.

The bike is a compact 39/53, which I assume is the number of teeth on the two front rings and I also assume that the greater number of teeth on the biggest ring at the rear, gives an easier run up the steep bits, but at the expense of more revolutions at the front and a corresponding loss in forward speed ?

If I only rarely come across steep hills, is it worth changing stuff on a new bike, as my preference would be to just get lighter and fitter. If my rides were always on steep hills, I think it would make more sense and I only went that route today to prove to myself that I had improved since my last attempt 

I'll keep getting the miles in and work harder on the gears, but the hill has several changes in severity and bends on it, so not getting out of breath until I can see the summit, is not an option at the moment. 

The nature of who I am will see me cycle to the top.... eventually.


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## totallyfixed (26 Mar 2012)

I'm taking one of our female club members out tomorrow to teach her hill climbing, and she like many many others I know dread hills. It is quite possible to write many pages on how to tackle hills, some of the biggest names in cycling don't like them and as [I believe] a consequence will to some extent always be relatively poor hill climbers.
Hill climbing is an art, and to practice this art well you need a high power to weight ratio. Unless racing / training don't attack them unless they are very short and steep. Get into a rhythm and don't try to get as far as you can up a hill without getting out of the saddle, I've said this before, staying in the saddle is not efficient for steeper hills [the gradient will depend of course on the individual] and this is probably one of the reasons why you have no energy left for the steep bit.
Look at hills as if they are your friend, learn to love them and go looking for them. Good luck.


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## zizou (26 Mar 2012)

You'll likely find it easier to pace yourself going up the hill if you get in your lower gears sooner and before it starts to get difficult.

Starting off the climb with gears "in reserve" for when you need them seems logical in that you will have something to fall back on when the legs are burning but that can make it a bit more difficult because it can mean a less measured effort.

If you get the pacing right it will usually feel like you are going a bit too slow at the start.


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## GrasB (26 Mar 2012)

I'll add to this. I'm big a big heavy & muscular chap but I can climb. I have several basic techniques which use different proportions of various muscle groups. The quickest & easiest way to get to the top of any climb is simply to mix it up, in/out the saddle, using the upstroke or not using it. I never get to the point where I've exhausted one muscle group when I feel that one group is starting to ache a bit too much I switch. It doesn't matter how hard I'm pushing my self, the basics apply. 

I think the hardest part of climbing is finding your limits & understand how your legs should feel. I can't remember who said it but "Hills don't get easer. You just get faster!"


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## jim55 (26 Mar 2012)

sorry to hijack this thread but theres a wee hill on the road home from work i travel every day and i ride it fixed /sometimes ss,any tips for this gen i have to attack it and stand up out the seat straight away as i cant push hard enough in the seat ,obv i cant change down so is it just a case of looking like a stroke victim at the top or is there something i should b doing ,whats the best way to approach this (apart from as fast as i can lol)


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## G-Zero (26 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Look at hills as if they are your friend, learn to love them and go looking for them. Good luck.


 
 There's my inspiration !!


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## Peteaud (26 Mar 2012)

My legs / lungs give out, but i know its...

a) My poor fitness
b) My poor technique.

Both are improving, but still find any sort of hill a big problem.


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## totallyfixed (26 Mar 2012)

jim55 said:


> sorry to hijack this thread but theres a wee hill on the road home from work i travel every day and i ride it fixed /sometimes ss,any tips for this gen i have to attack it and stand up out the seat straight away as i cant push hard enough in the seat ,obv i cant change down so is it just a case of looking like a stroke victim at the top or is there something i should b doing ,whats the best way to approach this (apart from as fast as i can lol)


I wish I could give you an easy answer to that and it might just be as simple as not standing up correctly. To give you a yardstick, I live in Rutland which has in places quite a few hills, the longest we have is just over 2 miles at an average of about 4%, the steepest is about 20% but short and there is everything in between. I ride 75" fixed and there isn't anything there that defeats me although some do require a fair bit of upper body strength. What is your gear and how long / steep is the hill?


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## ColinJ (26 Mar 2012)

GrasB said:


> I can't remember who said it but "Hills don't get easer. You just get faster!"


The man responsible for getting me back into cycling with his dramatic 8 second Tour de France win in 1989 - Greg Lemond!


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## lulubel (26 Mar 2012)

G-Zero said:


> The bike is a compact 39/53, which I assume is the number of teeth on the two front rings and I also assume that the greater number of teeth on the biggest ring at the rear, gives an easier run up the steep bits, but at the expense of more revolutions at the front and a corresponding loss in forward speed ?
> 
> If I only rarely come across steep hills, is it worth changing stuff on a new bike, as my preference would be to just get lighter and fitter.


 
A 39/53 is a standard double, and certainly isn't helping. I couldn't get up a 20% hill with a 39 front ring, even if I had a dinner plate on the back.

You could change it for something like a 34/50, which would make hills a lot more manageable, but that depends on what your goals are. If you're happy doing mostly flatish rides and walking up steep hills when you come across them, nothing needs changing. But if you want to go in search of hills and improve your climbing, putting smaller rings on the front would give you the chance to stay on the bike and build up fitness.


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## jim55 (26 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> I wish I could give you an easy answer to that and it might just be as simple as not standing up correctly. To give you a yardstick, I live in Rutland which has in places quite a few hills, the longest we have is just over 2 miles at an average of about 4%, the steepest is about 20% but short and there is everything in between. I ride 75" fixed and there isn't anything there that defeats me although some do require a fair bit of upper body strength. What is your gear and how long / steep is the hill?


its not a monster stretch at all,acc to strava i think its 4.2% and its only about half, a mile at the bottom theres a bridge /narrow tunnel where the traffic narrows and more often than not i need to stop and let cars/traffic go through cos if i just steam in they will still try and get past pushing me into the kerb,so gen its from no speed to go in with at the start and theres lights at the top and by the time i get there im panting like a fat spaniel ,im running 44*16 its about 72 gi i think (this may be wrong)


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## totallyfixed (26 Mar 2012)

jim55 said:


> its not a monster stretch at all,acc to strava i think its 4.2% and its only about half, a mile at the bottom theres a bridge /narrow tunnel where the traffic narrows and more often than not i need to stop and let cars/traffic go through cos if i just steam in they will still try and get past pushing me into the kerb,so gen its from no speed to go in with at the start and theres lights at the top and by the time i get there im panting like a fat spaniel ,im running 44*16 its about 72 gi i think (this may be wrong)


That gear is around 74" but shouldn't be causing you a problem on that kind of gradient, assuming you have "miles in your legs" and you are not carrying too much weight. I'm guessing blind here but I see it a lot and I think it might just be technique and nothing more. A common phrase I say to my super duper climbing better half when I'm taking it easy is, "I'm just going to rock up this hill". To me that is just rocking the bike more than usual from side to side in a slower rhythm. when you look down you should be looking at your front wheel, in my case as I'm tall the front third and the steeper it gets the further forward you lean.


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## jim55 (26 Mar 2012)

I always can do it , just wanted to know if there was a technique I wasn't doing ,cheers


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## GrasB (27 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> The man responsible for getting me back into cycling with his dramatic 8 second Tour de France win in 1989 - Greg Lemond!


Though he was wrong... Hills don't get easier, they get faster & harder! (the faster you can get up them the harder you can push climbing them)


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## gb155 (27 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> *People will argue with me, but I think the best way to train for steep hills is to equip yourself with low enough gears to be able to ride up them and then practise doing so!*
> 
> I currently weigh 16 stone and am not very fit, but I can get up 20% climbs because I use a 30/28 bottom gear on them. If I had a 39/25 (or something similar), I'd be walking, which would not help me improve my cycling fitness.


 
I'd say you were spot on there mate


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## gavroche (27 Mar 2012)

Don't worry too much about it. Cavendish is world champion but he still can't ride the hills!Yet, he is fitter than all of us here!


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## jdtate101 (27 Mar 2012)

I'd actually say that you need to get out of the saddle sooner (depending upon the length of the 20% part). If you leave it until the last second you will be grinding and exhaust yourself before you get to the serious climbing. On the lead up climb, regularly standup, even if just for a few seconds, to allow yourself to stretch out and relax. Keep your cadence nice and high and spin. When the going gets tough, stand up smoothly and keep the rpm in the 70-80's if possible. Over-revving whilst standing will tire you very quickly. Remember to breathe in time with your pedal strokes to keep the O2 high, try not to gasp. If you ride clipless then you can also employ the "pull" technique, whereby you can pull up on the pedals whilst standing too. This can produce MUCH more power but at the expense of energy, so use sparingly.

As others have said the only real way to cure the hill "blues" is practice, practice, practice.


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## GrasB (27 Mar 2012)

gavroche said:


> Don't worry too much about it. Cavendish is world champion but he still can't ride the hills!Yet, he is fitter than all of us here!


Can't climb hills?.. I'd like to see you keep up with him!


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## gavroche (27 Mar 2012)

I am referring to his fellow professionals. He can't keep up with most of them.


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## Nearly there (27 Mar 2012)

There's two particular hills I ride that I still can't all the way up without stopping and their not the steepest ones I ride either they've beaten me mentally when I approach them my legs suddenly go then further down the road there are steeper longer hills that I can get up,strange but true


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## screenman (27 Mar 2012)

And they cannot sprint as fast as him, different horses and all that.


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