# Plug for Garmin



## redfox (12 Feb 2008)

Worth commenting on good service when you receive it so..

Returned my 4 year old GPSMap 60CS to Garmin for repair last week, after an unfortunate pothole incident separated it from my handlebars at about 35mph whereupon the thing bounced off the kerb into many parts.

After much deliberation about chucking good money after bad I decided to return it for repair and, £72 and 4 days later, I have a brand new unit as a replacement!

Not the first time I have had excellent service from them either.


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## toontra (12 Feb 2008)

Their *freephone* tech support line is first class also!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (12 Feb 2008)

3 pin or 2 pin?


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## Bigtallfatbloke (12 Feb 2008)

what is th ebest garmin then?


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## redfox (12 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> what is th ebest garmin then?



Well the Edge 705 seems cover just about everything for training and long day rides, but I am not sure about using it for touring. 

Personally, I would go for the GPSMap 60CSX for touring. Removable batteries and a 10,000 point track log might be of more use.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (12 Feb 2008)

I took a quick look at the GPSmap 60csx

it seemed to be more geared towards the american user...the base map is of america i think? Can a european map be used? I should perhaps go and read up on it in more depth ...

Also why are there games on it , the battery life is paramount on tour and I would be unlikely to use it up playing starwars.


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## redfox (12 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I took a quick look at the GPSmap 60csx
> 
> it seemed to be more geared towards the american user...the base map is of america i think? Can a european map be used? I should perhaps go and read up on it in more depth ...
> 
> Also why are there games on it , the battery life is paramount on tour and I would be unlikely to use it up playing starwars.



The ones over hear have a European Basemap, but is a moot point as base maps are useless, some form of mapping product will need to be added. I have a bit more info that may be of use on my web site.

The games are a bit pants, but the kids like them, they are gps based and involve a bit of running around. No Star Wars, but there is Geckoids, in which you spin yourself dizzy trying to avoid/shoot asteroids.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (12 Feb 2008)

Your website is excellent!

...so if I bought such a gizmo and took it to Germany, France etc what extra 'bits' would I need to buy before I went to ensure that i was able to navigate in those countries? (especially through the town centres)


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## redfox (12 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> Your website is excellent!



Thanks! 



Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ...so if I bought such a gizmo and took it to Germany, France etc what extra 'bits' would I need to buy before I went to ensure that i was able to navigate in those countries? (especially through the town centres)



Something like City Navigator Europe or MetroGuide Europe, similar level of detail, but Navigator's map tiles contain routing information (allows a 60CSx to work like a Sat-Nav if you get stuck). 

Both give you street level mapping for a large part of Europe and all of Germany and France, though Navigator is more thorough. The links above also detail the map coverage.

If you look around it is sometimes possible to MetroGuide or Navigator bundled with the GPS when you buy it. (at least it was when I bought mine)


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## Bigtallfatbloke (13 Feb 2008)

Thanks...
...so just so I understand correctly if I got these:

GPS:
http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/garmin-gpsmap-60csx-handheld-sat-nav-gps/10066/
Europe city navigator
http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/citynavEuro.jsp

Then I would have all I need to navigate hands free across Europe and the UK on a bike including through big cities and not need a map? 20 hours battery life seems good to me as they are 2xAA and readily available in corner shops etc.


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## redfox (13 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> Thanks...
> ...so just so I understand correctly if I got these:
> 
> GPS:
> ...



At the risk of incurring the wrath of the traditionalists, yes! 

However, if you want to enjoy the ride, you need to spend time planning your route, so you can upload it rather than letting the GPS work out what it thinks is the best route. You can use a 60CSx as a Sat-Nav, but I wouldn't recommend it on a bike.

I have never found my old 60CS wanting for a signal anywhere in Europe (and the 60CSx has as much higher sensitivity), but I still carry a large scale map 'just in case'.

_BTW: you wont get anywhere near 20 hours out of a pair of corner shop alkaline AAs on a 60CSx, more like 5 or 6 hours; okay in an emergency but rechargeables are the way to go. I find that a pair of NiMH AAs (2100mAh or more) will run for 15 to 20 hours between charges, so I carry a couple of pairs on tour and rotate them._


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## Bigtallfatbloke (13 Feb 2008)

> you wont get anywhere near 20 hours out of a pair of corner shop alkaline AAs on a 60CSx, more like 5 or 6 hours



...thanks...that is worth knowing ...the sales blurb claims 20 hours...clearly not the case...


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## redfox (13 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ...thanks...that is worth knowing ...the sales blurb claims 20 hours...clearly not the case...



Took me a while (and a fair bit of money) to come to the same conclusion! 

A pack of of rechargeable AAs on-line cost roughly the same as their alkaline equivalents in a corner shop anyway, so you are saving money the second time you use them.


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## andrew_s (14 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ...thanks...that is worth knowing ...the sales blurb claims 20 hours...clearly not the case...



I don't think Garmin say what sort of batteries they are using to get the 20 hours, but you can bet it's whatever gives the best life.
If you end up having to buy disposables, get lithium AAs if you can. They should give near the full 20 hours.

If you are thinking of a 60CSx, you should also look at the Etrex Vista HCx. This has much the same functionality. but is cheaper and more compact. You should allow for the cost of a 1 or 2GB micro-SD card to hold all the maps and your track logs - a whole £9 for 2GB it would seem. There used to be problem with the 60CSx frying fast cards, so a cheap and basic one is probably best.

A GPS is fine for navigating along a route by, but you need a map if you want to plan places to go. When I go places, I plan by map, and enter just enough waypoints on the GPS that the shortest distance between waypoints is where I've planned to go. I then put the GPS in satnav mode and let it direct me.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (14 Feb 2008)

> If you are thinking of a 60CSx, you should also look at the Etrex Vista HCx.



I asked the bloke in the Field and trek shop about this one as it was cheaper and seemed to do much the same, he told me that it's signal reception was not as good as the GPS60CSx because it doesnt have the small antenna bit on the top...any thoughts on this comment or was he just pushing a more expensive unit?


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## davidwalton (14 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I asked the bloke in the Field and trek shop about this one as it was cheaper and seemed to do much the same, he told me that it's signal reception was not as good as the GPS60CSx because it doesnt have the small antenna bit on the top...any thoughts on this comment or was he just pushing a more expensive unit?



I have had no Sat reception problems with my Vista HCx. Outside, reception has always been good. In my house, I still get good reception. Only time I had any reception problems was when on a train, the type with electrical overheads (it took a few minutes to lock on), but was ok after that.

The battery life is better on the Vista though. With 2900 AA batteries, I ran the unit for over 24 hours.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (14 Feb 2008)

they both sound good...i need to go and see them both working in th e shop...(then explain to him that i can get them £200 cheaper on the net)...as I need to see the display working and mess around with them before I decide...it's a LOT of cash afterall


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## davidwalton (14 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> they both sound good...i need to go and see them both working in th e shop...(then explain to him that i can get them £200 cheaper on the net)...as I need to see the display working and mess around with them before I decide...it's a LOT of cash afterall



You can also ask Garmin questions about any of the Garmin handhelds through 0808 238 0000 (option 2).


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## davidwalton (14 Feb 2008)

BTW- For *AA 2900mAh NiMH* Batteries - Pack of 4 at £4.75 go to
http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/aa.html

They were the cheapest when I bought mine, and a few packs are needed with a Garmin unit when on Holiday.


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## HJ (14 Feb 2008)

redfox said:


> At the risk of incurring the wrath of the traditionalists, yes!



But getting lost is half the fun


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## tomb1960 (15 Feb 2008)

I have to say I find the whole GPS Mallarkey utterly bewildering. That said.....I can completely see how useful they are. There seems to be two distinct breeds of devices. Those designed for the great outdoors such as the Garmin units described in this thread and the TomTom type gizmo's primarily for use in your car. I am much more inclined towards the Garmin type apparatus, but can you use them to get clear driving instructions, can you search by post-code etc? Anyone know?


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## davidwalton (15 Feb 2008)

tomb1960 said:


> I have to say I find the whole GPS Mallarkey utterly bewildering. That said.....I can completely see how useful they are. There seems to be two distinct breeds of devices. Those designed for the great outdoors such as the Garmin units described in this thread and the TomTom type gizmo's primarily for use in your car. I am much more inclined towards the Garmin type apparatus, but can you use them to get clear driving instructions, can you search by post-code etc? Anyone know?



Clear directions are provided, as long as City Navigator maps are loaded.

On the Vista unit, you can search by address, but not by Post Code. You can search by Post Code on your PC with the MapSource software and City Navigator maps though.

Note: It is the Maps that provide the facility to do navigation by road, so only units capable of being loaded with these maps can work as SatNavs on the roads.


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## redfox (15 Feb 2008)

Hairy Jock said:


> But getting lost is half the fun



Agreed, it can be, but it can also be incredibly frustrating. I often go 'off piste' if the road less travelled looks more interesting and the GPS often makes the decision to do so easier.

The other occasionally useful thing about a GPS when credit card touring is, if you have had enough at some point in the day, you can ask it to find you the nearest accommodation.


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## Brock (15 Feb 2008)

Ooooh which will you choose BTFB?? 

As far as I can tell the antenna difference isn't really much of an issue, so it boils down to screen size (marginal), battery life (where the HCx wins quite significantly), and your preference of form factor / button placement.

The CSx does look more 'army' though 

Found another discussion about these two units on this board.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (15 Feb 2008)

that was an interesting conversation..cheers for posting it.

I dunno which one I will get yet...first I need to play with both of them, second I need to raid some savings...third I need to but a hard hat and hide from the Mrs.


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## Brock (15 Feb 2008)

I wonder which has the best bicycle mount accessory?


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## davidwalton (15 Feb 2008)

Brock said:


> I wonder which has the best bicycle mount accessory?



I believe they both use the same sort of mount. At least, on Garmin site they look very similar.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (15 Feb 2008)

I think I would prefer the buttons to be on the front of th eunit so i can use them easier whilst riding


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## davidwalton (15 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I think I would prefer the buttons to be on the front of th eunit so i can use them easier whilst riding



Yes, I thought that as well. However, just because the buttons are on the side with the Vista makes it no less useable while on the bike. Buttons do also require a little pressure being waterproof operation.


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## bonj2 (16 Feb 2008)

to my mind, from looking on the net, it's a bit confusing which of them enable you to do satnav and which don't. All the garmins have gps, but there seems to be a distinction between being able to tell you where to go and being able to tell you where you _have been_.
For instance, on the specs pages of the garmin site for the 205 and 305, it says they have no 'basemap' or ability to add maps. So presumably this means they can't be used as a satnav device. However, on amazon it describes the edge 305 as a "_Navigation_ & trip computer for cycles" which would appear to indicate it can do navigation.
Have amazon just got it wrong?

Also, on the one(s) that can do navigation, then do you need to buy any additional maps to be able to navigate by road to any address in the uk?

And another thing - (forgetting about actual navigation for a minute) what software can you upload routes off a garmin edge 205 or 305 to? - i.e. do you have a choice of software, is it proprietary, or do you have to use garmin's own, how much does it cost etc.?


and how do they compare to a nokia n95


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## andrew_s (16 Feb 2008)

The 205 and 305 can't display or use maps. To navigate with them you have to create a route on a PC and transfer it to the 2/305. It will then take you along the route using an arrow pointer. You are stuck if you go off the route.
There are similar 605 & 705 models just (about to be) released which do have map compatibility, but they still run on built-in rechargeable batteries, so you'd need mains electricity every night on a tour.

The mapping data required for satnav use or going to an address (City Navigator or whatever) is extra cost on top. The built-in base maps are one step above useless. You are looking at something in the region of £120.

Software for creating routes and uploading them comes with the mapping data (looks somewhat like MS Autoroute). You can also create and upload routes using packages like MemoryMap or Tracklogs, but the mapping data these use isn't transferrable to the GPS. Routes can also be created using Google Maps or sites based on it, but you will then need a transfer package to upload it. Trip and Waypoint Manager comes with map-capable Garmins, but non-capable ones will require some other package. There are a number of freeware/shareware ones around.


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## bonj2 (16 Feb 2008)

sorry for the confusion, but...


andrew_s said:


> ...You can also create and upload routes using packages like MemoryMap or Tracklogs, but the mapping data these use isn't transferrable to the GPS.


surely this is a contradiction in terms? if the mapping data they use isn't transferrable, how can you upload the route? (when you say 'upload' the route, i presume you mean from your home PC to the garmin?)



andrew_s said:


> Trip and Waypoint Manager comes with map-capable Garmins, but non-capable ones will require some other package. There are a number of freeware/shareware ones around.



what does "Trip and Waypoint manager" enable you to do? Do you require this to be able to analyse where you've been?


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## Brock (16 Feb 2008)

As I understand it bonj, a 'route' created with mapping software on the PC and then uploaded to a 'non mapping' gps unit would consist of a set of co-ordinates that the device can display as a line with you on it. There's no map under the line, all the device knows about is it's position in relation to satellites, and the list of co-ordinates generated by the route planning software on the pc.

Is that right? 

Trip and waypoint manager presumably are the programs that create road routes between your chosen points on a map, and generate a route.

Is that right too? 

I hope so, because I'm getting a very itchy credit card finger for one of these mapping units. I detest not knowing where I am on tour, and having to fight with stupid paper maps in the wind and rain, scrunched up in my silly plastic map holder which cleverly funnels rain water into itself.


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## davidwalton (16 Feb 2008)

Garmin make 2 types of hand held devices:-

1. The basic GPS models that have no maps. They are generally intended for walkers and off-road cyclists that have preplanned a route at home by creating waypoints as markers along a route they wish to follow strictly. The unit will give you the direction from one marker to the next. How you follow it is then up to you. You can not use these units for Road navigation as the unit knows nothing about roads.

2. Hand helds with mapping. Covers everything the basic models can do, plus have the facility to load maps on to them. With maps loaded, true navigation becomes possible, but only as far as the maps go.

There are Topographical maps for those going off-road, City Navigator maps for turn by turn road navigation, and also BlueChart for sea maps.

The Vista unit accepts a 2gb card. On that I can load any number of maps from the 3 map types, staying within the 2gb limit. Loaded on mine is the whole of the UK City Navigator maps (19 map areas), with a little room to spare.

Without the City Navigator maps, you can not do turn by turn road navigation.
Without Topo maps, you can't do detailed off-road stuff.
Without the BlueChart maps, you can't do any sea navigation.

The units just provide the capability for these maps, but the maps are required for that capability to be realised.


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## Brock (16 Feb 2008)

So a 2gig microSD card isn't anywhere near large enough to hold all of the map data on the City Navigator Europe NT DVD?


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## redfox (16 Feb 2008)

Brock said:


> As I understand it bonj, a 'route' created with mapping software on the PC and then uploaded to a 'non mapping' gps unit would consist of a set of co-ordinates that the device can display as a line with you on it. There's no map under the line, all the device knows about is it's position in relation to satellites, and the list of co-ordinates generated by the route planning software on the pc.
> 
> Is that right?



Yes, a route or track is basically a collection of latitude/longitude coordinates that can be uploaded to your GPS.



Brock said:


> Trip and waypoint manager presumably are the programs that create road routes between your chosen points on a map, and generate a route.
> 
> Is that right too?



Sort of.

'Trip and Waypoint Manager' (more commonly known as 'MapSource') is the name of a program provided by Garmin with most of its GPS units that, as supplied, is pretty much only of use for transferring data from PC to GPS and visa versa.

If you want to improve the quality of the maps on your GPS you can buy more Garmin software that will add more capabilities to MapSource such as uploading detailed map tiles.

Once you have detailed maps, designing tracks or routes in MapSource becomes much easier, but it isn't essential. You could, for instance, design your route or track on Bikely (or a similar site) and use MapSource to upload it to a GPS with only basemap data. 

However, basemaps are pants and trying to follow a route or track on a basemap is usually worse than having no map information at all! I would say the detailed map tiles are pretty much an essential add-on.


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## Brock (16 Feb 2008)

Given that I'm intending to make myself homeless and bum around europe with a bike and a tent for maybe a year or so, I quite like the idea of a gps unit containing the city navigator europe maps.

What do you think of this basket?


*

o Garmin eTrex Handlebar Mount Bracket
o 8.04


*

o Garmin eTrex Vista HCx
o 174.43

*

o Garmin City Navigator NT microSD/SD Card (Full Europe)
o 68.04

* Postage & Packing6.45
* VAT 17.5%44.97
* £301.93


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## davidwalton (16 Feb 2008)

Brock said:


> So a 2gig microSD card isn't anywhere near large enough to hold all of the map data on the City Navigator Europe NT DVD?



No, you just upload those maps you need when needed. You can selectively upload maps for the areas where you are traveling. Unless you pl;an to travel absolutely everywhere, not all maps are needed at once.

The UK is split in to 19 maps, so you can be selective down to region you intend to travel in.


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## Brock (16 Feb 2008)

I'm confused how the Garmin microSD/SD data card, City Navigator NT, Europe differs from the DVD?


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## bonj2 (16 Feb 2008)

redfox said:


> Yes, a route or track is basically a collection of latitude/longitude coordinates that can be uploaded to your GPS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ah right, ok - so the 'basemaps' that you get on the unit don't include the City Navigator maps then?
So presumably if I just got a map-capable garmin with the City Navigator add-on map then would I be able to:

* navigate to any address in the uk by road with satnav like a car's satnav can
* go on an off-road route, not by being navigated, but upload the details of where i've been to some good software on my home pc later on?

that's basically what i want to be able to do. And what program could i upload details of an off-road route i've done to - could i upload it to google earth/google maps? 'bikely' (whatever that is)? or just garmin's own software? if only the latter is it any good? or some other that's better than all those?


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## Bigtallfatbloke (16 Feb 2008)

> What do you think of this basket?
> 
> 
> *
> ...



Looks good to me on paper...but...You know I may just sit here & wait for you to buy this and post up your thoughts on how it all works in europe ...before I go and copy exactly what you bought


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## redfox (16 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> ah right, ok - so the 'basemaps' that you get on the unit don't include the City Navigator maps then?
> So presumably if I just got a map-capable garmin with the City Navigator add-on map then would I be able to:
> 
> * navigate to any address in the uk by road with satnav like a car's satnav can



With the Garmin units discussed on this thread (60CSx and Vista HCx) yes.



bonj said:


> * go on an off-road route, not by being navigated, but upload the details of where i've been to some good software on my home pc later on?
> 
> that's basically what i want to be able to do. And what program could i upload details of an off-road route i've done to - could i upload it to google earth/google maps? 'bikely' (whatever that is)? or just garmin's own software? if only the latter is it any good? or some other that's better than all those?



You don't need any additional software to do the uploading, the vanilla MapSource will import the activity log from your GPS. 

The activity log wont look great in MapSource without additional maps, but you can save the data as a GPX file and view it in many other applications (such as Google Earth, Bikely and Tracklogs).

Bikely used to be the on-line route planner of choice (IMO), but it seems to have suffered from a lamentable lack of development since being aquired by Future to become the mapping part of BikeRadar. GPSies.com is fast becoming my on-line tool of choice.


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## davidwalton (16 Feb 2008)

Brock said:


> I'm confused how the Garmin microSD/SD data card, City Navigator NT, Europe differs from the DVD?



Sorry, I should of checked first. I assumed the whole of Europe NT maps wouldn't fit on one card


You can load all 200 plus map areas of Europe on to a 2GB card. Just did it, although it took a while on my 1.1 USB port.

Therefore, the difference between whether you buy a DVD version or Card version seems to be that with the DVD version you can also run the maps on your PC.


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## Brock (16 Feb 2008)

Found this info on the GPSPassion boards



> SD Card
> + Can be moved from one GPS to anotherGPS
> + When you replace GPS, you do not to buy new maps
> - Do only work with one GPS at the time
> ...




Thanks redfox and david, good advice from both and I've ordered the items I posted above. Certainly will let you know how I get on BTFB!


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## bonj2 (16 Feb 2008)

redfox said:


> With the Garmin units discussed on this thread (60CSx and Vista HCx) yes.


ok cheers.
don't suppose you know about the new 705? that's the one i fancy.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (16 Feb 2008)

> Certainly will let you know how I get on BTFB!



i look forward to it ta.


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## will (16 Feb 2008)

I am a VERY loyal *Edge 305* user and will probably soon get a 705

But for years I have used my* Garmin Etrex Vista C* for touring. Color maps, routing abilities (turn here, turn there, etc) and besides a bike mount - IT also WORKS perfectly as a car GPS - which is pretty cool. 

It is a lot smaller than the 60

wonderful - even if the maps were a bit expensive. (it only lacks a Heart rate and cadence thing to be perfect bike GPS)

It is also good on LONG touring as more memory and normal batteries - that can be replaced. So if I am not near a PC i can save all routes and GPX files.


The 705 may finally replace it.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (16 Feb 2008)

which screen looks most like a car tom tom gizmo? I just want one of those cliped to a bike with battery power and cycle orientated guidence instead of sending me down a bloody motorway...seems simple to me....so why is all this so dam complicated for us cyclists when it's so easy for th emoron car drivers?


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## davidwalton (16 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> which screen looks most like a car tom tom gizmo? I just want one of those cliped to a bike with battery power and cycle orientated guidence instead of sending me down a bloody motorway...seems simple to me....so why is all this so dam complicated for us cyclists when it's so easy for th emoron car drivers?



Because for cyclists it is all an add-on to a product designed for outside pursuits or as fitness monitoring system.

The crunch is:-

Has to be Waterproof
Has to last a reasonable amount of time on batteries.

Stuff made for cars is not waterproof, and any battery time is limited.


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## Brock (17 Feb 2008)

Yeah I think the car ones generally have a much bigger screen, which means they would eat batteries like there's no tomorrow.
Found this video on youtube which gives a good idea of what it's like to operate the CSx. Note near the end of the second one how the point of interest system fails to list his nearest Mcdonalds!

part 1: 
View: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ny5qRLCkCC4

part 2: 
View: http://youtube.com/watch?v=WiAzYfSE12I


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## Bigtallfatbloke (17 Feb 2008)

McDonalds i can live without!...

It looks great, just the job really.

there isnt a video on U toob for the Garmin eTrex Vista HCx

...shame...you could do one when you get yours and be famous in the gps bike world!


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## redfox (17 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> ok cheers.
> don't suppose you know about the new 705? that's the one i fancy.



Just checked the Garmin 705 product page and read this:

_Just plug in detailed MapSource® City Navigator® street maps on a preloaded data card and get turn-by-turn directions on a sunlight-readable, color display as you pedal._

So the answer would seem to be yes.

I also have a 305 and it sort of does the Sat-Nav thing without any maps. You can upload courses to it and the choose to 'do' a course; where the 305 will display the course outline and your position on it, it will also warn you if you go off course. Its not as good as detailed maps, but better than trying to use a basemap.

The 705 could turn out to be the ultimate bike GPS for training/audax/sportive rides, but I wouldn't want to take it touring because the way the activity log works doesn't lend itself to mapping out long rides over multiple days and it doesn't have removable batteries.


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## Brock (20 Feb 2008)

Well my HCx arrived yesterday morning with its bike mount and Europe maps. Had a fiddle with it last night and I'm very happy. Amazing what you can get in a mircoSD the size of a finger nail. I've got up early so I can fit the mount on my bike before work, satellites can navigate me through the fog, hurrah.


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## psmiffy (20 Feb 2008)

_Brock_

_HCx - Vista?_

_MapSource® City Navigator® street maps?_

_im looking for replacement for vista i destroyed_


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## Brock (20 Feb 2008)

psmiffy said:


> _Brock_
> 
> _HCx - Vista?_
> 
> ...



Yep, Garmin Etrex Vista HCx and MapSource City Navigator Europe, preloaded on a microSD.

Having great fun working out how to use it and what it's capable of. Not the most intuitive device I've ever used though. Does look sweet on the handlebars, I hope I get over the novelty of watching my little arrow progress along the little streets on the screen before I cycle into a skip or something.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (20 Feb 2008)

..cool...the test will be if it can get one back from the pub in the dark...let me know how you get on, I'll probably end up getting the same kit.


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## davidwalton (20 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> ..cool...the test will be if it can get one back from the pub in the dark...let me know how you get on, I'll probably end up getting the same kit.




After how many drinks?


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## Bigtallfatbloke (20 Feb 2008)

..it usually takes me at least 5 or 6 before I get my wallet out


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## Magna (20 Feb 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> let me know how you get on, I'll probably end up getting the same kit.



Who won't? It sounds like a sweet piece of kit. I've already started saving!


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## Brock (22 Feb 2008)

Think I'm getting on quite well with this fantastic little gadget. Found out that I can add large databases of custom 'points of interest' to my device with the Garmin POI loader app, and with the free camp site POI files on this site I've got an even more valuable tool on the handlebars for cycle touring.


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