# First overnight cycle trip! It was bloody freezing!



## ChrisEyles (1 May 2017)

I bought a bivvy bag a little while ago with the intention of doing some mini-touring over the weekends. It should hopefully be perfect for wild camping up on Dartmoor/Exmoor. 

Managed to get out after work for a test run last week. The ride itself was very short since I didn't finish work 'til it was getting dark already, but I managed to find a lovely spot in a little birch glade on a bit of Exmoor heathland. It was quite comfy in the early part of the night, but dropped down to 0C later on, which was bloomin' freezing in the sleeping bag/bivvy bag combo! Absolutely amazing display of stars though, I'll definitely be doing this as much as possible once it's warmed up a touch. 

I woke up to find myself surrounded by Exmoor ponies - they were very clearly after the porridge I'd brought with me to have for breakfast. 







Followed by the best commute to work ever - some nice singletrack along a lake shore  






Mrs Chris is off on a conference in a couple of week's time so I'm planning a weekend's riding up on Dartmoor with some wild camping overnight. I've also got myself a tarp to keep the rain off if it showers overnight and am looking forward to experimenting with a few different pitching methods. Might try and do a couple of beach camps later in the year too - we're spoilt for choice down in Devon so I'm really looking forward to a Summer under the stars


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## ChrisEyles (1 May 2017)

One quick question for the mtb tourers out there - do you carry your kit on the bike or in a backpack? I find carrying a load on my tourer/commuter in the panniers is fine on the roads but off piste I prefer to carry the load in a backpack. This is fine for day trips, but with the extra gear for overnighting I find the height of the backpack pushes my cycling helmet forward and pushes my head down, which is rubbish when it happens on a steep off-road descent!


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## david k (1 May 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> I bought a bivvy bag a little while ago with the intention of doing some mini-touring over the weekends. It should hopefully be perfect for wild camping up on Dartmoor/Exmoor.
> 
> Managed to get out after work for a test run last week. The ride itself was very short since I didn't finish work 'til it was getting dark already, but I managed to find a lovely spot in a little birch glade on a bit of Exmoor heathland. It was quite comfy in the early part of the night, but dropped down to 0C later on, which was bloomin' freezing in the sleeping bag/bivvy bag combo! Absolutely amazing display of stars though, I'll definitely be doing this as much as possible once it's warmed up a touch.
> 
> ...


Looks great but I did think it said first overweight cycle trip, I was going to share some of my own experiences of which I have many lol


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## Yellow Saddle (1 May 2017)

Carrying things in a backpack is a no-no. It increases the pressure between sitbones and saddle and leads to premature saddle sores on longer trips. It gives you a sweaty back and limits your heat management.
Panniers are best, but they must be well strapped on and in and an around when the going gets rough. They must be shake-proofed.


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## ChrisEyles (1 May 2017)

@Yellow Saddle I tend to agree, much nicer to carry kit on the bike if you can, though I've found the backpack fine for daytrips. I might have a spare rack somewhere in the garage that I could fix to my MTB but no spare panniers currently - and I would definitely worry about kit shaking loose on the rough stuff! 

Fortunately my tourer/commuter has some decent panniers already so will probably use that one for longer trips.


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## Crackle (1 May 2017)

I think all the mtb/fatbike campers these days use bikepacking bags from the likes of Alpkit etc... Panniers off road tend to come off the clips break. it also makes the bike awkward to lift over gate and things.


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## Lee-M (1 May 2017)

I did some Dartmoor off road touring a few weeks ago with the bike laden using Ortleib panniers and they held up ok with not too much bouncing around . I definately wouldn't do too much touring with a backpack for the reasons mentioned above . 

Dartmoor and Exmoor are great places for short tours . Let us know how you get on Chris.


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## ChrisEyles (1 May 2017)

I recently did up my commuter/touring bike in preparation for a weekend out on Dartmoor. It has been sadly languishing in the garage for the last year and a bit, since I moved jobs and am no longer able to commute by bike  So I spent a bit of time tuning up the brakes and the shifting and gave it all a good clean and lube, nice new bar tape, and now it's got that "new bike" feeling back again  

Given that I'm unlikely to be setting much pace with full panniers and I could never really comfortably get in the drops, I flipped the stem, then moved the hoods out and down along the bars to compensate a little. It looks a bit dorky and TBH feels a tad too high right now, but I think I'll get used to it and braking from the drops is much easier with the hoods in this position... and most importantly I can comfortably sit in the drops pretty much as long as I want which should offer a bit more variety of positions. My cycling fitness is pretty much at an all time low at the moment so any performance oriented set-up points are pretty much moot in any case! 

The rigid MTB is the bike I keep at work so will hopefully still be using that one a bit (with backpack) for some sneaky short overnighters too. 

If the weather's not dead set against me and I manage the planned Dartmoor mini-tour I'll make sure to take some piccies and post how I get on 

View attachment 350354


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## ChrisEyles (1 May 2017)




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## Heltor Chasca (1 May 2017)

Nice! 

I really enjoy some off road touring on my MTB. Seat pack, frame bag, dry bag on the handlebars, chalk bags on the stem and a little fuel pod type bag for bits. It's an ideal system and worth going light. I only use a rucksack if I'm lazy and don't downsize and I'll only put clothes and sleeping bag in it. 

Next bivi-trip I'm doing is the Ridgeway.


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## robjh (1 May 2017)

I wish you hadn't posted about bivying for another couple of weeks! I'm off on a short tour next week (mainly south and mid-Wales) and was weighing up taking the bivi bag, but decided in the end on using hostels (and have started making bookings). My reasons were : 1 still quite early in the year and nights can be cold ; 2 plenty of cheap hostels where I'm going ; 3 saving on weight and bulk by not taking camping stuff, especially in view of reasons 1 and 2.
They're all good reasons but you've reminded me again of the joys of the bivi. Oh well, roll on summer.


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## Bodhbh (2 May 2017)

I've used a 40 odd litre rucksack for my first tour(s) and the South Downs Way. It didn't bother me too much but I'd rather have it on the bike, one way or another.

I've never had much of a problem with touring off road with the rack/panniers setup. That said, I'm happy to muddle along with whatever comes and aren't really bothered by technical riding. The main issue is pulling wheelies on v steep climbs if all the weight is up back.

I'm gradually aquiring some of the bikepacking gear to see how the other half lives. Some hidden costs to beware - eg, all your cables may need lengthing to make room for gear if you start lashing stuff to the handlebars. Then you may want a bespoke bag to get the max luggage volume out of your frame triangle. It seems you have to be more thoughtful about what you need and how to compartmentalise things. Some will say that's a plus, but prefer to take what I like and chuck things in. We will see!


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## ChrisEyles (2 May 2017)

Yeah, a 40L rucksack does make packing nice and easy! I think I'll stick with that for the time being on the MTB and use the panniers for the Dartmoor road ride. Overnight minimum temperatures are forecast to be 6C-7C around me this week which should be a lot more comfortable!


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## ChrisEyles (11 May 2017)

Went out again last week around Exmoor on a mini-overnighter, this time with a colleague. A lot warmer than last time, and the tarp seemed to work well to keep the dew off too. I am slightly envious of his hammock now though!


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## ChrisEyles (11 May 2017)

I was planning on going out to Dartmoor tomorrow but the forecast is looking dodgy and the moor is no fun if the weather really comes in. Looking at a few potential routes now... will have to check the forecast in the morning!


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## ChrisEyles (12 May 2017)

Forecast is still looking dodgy on the moor, but quite a lot better on the coast. Looks like there are a couple of suitable wild camping spots in the woods which may even have sea views (the place I'm looking at is quite close to some land I used to manage so I know the area quite well - and fortunately the people who own it too). 

So I've got a fifty something mile pootle planned for this afternoon/evening and tomorrow morning  

I've chucked the bivy bag, tarp, and food in one pannier, sleeping bag, pans and stove in the other with snacks, bug spray loo roll toothbrush etc stuffed in wherever I could... packing a bike is a lot tougher than fitting the same in a decent rucksack I am discovering! I would rather not have the camping roll mat on top of the rear rack as it is a bit of a giveaway that I'll be wild camping, but I can't fit it in any other way so will have to do. If I'd thought of it earlier I'd have stuffed a fleece and a survival bag in the middle of the camping roll mat, but doubt I'll be needing the bag tonight and the jumper is inelegantly stuffed on the rack in a placky bag so all's good. Dug around in the spares box for another bottle cage so should have plenty of water to keep me going. 







Oooooof! It's heavy! The hills might be interesting... 

But I am quite excited now


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## ChrisEyles (12 May 2017)

I'm also dead pleased with the way the bike feels after flipping the stem. I angled in the hoods (so they are pointing slightly into the middle of the bars) at the same time, which has given me the fantastic advantage that I can now reach the little button to shift up a gear from the drops (I love the Sora shifting mechanism (prefer it to Tiagra and up actually) from the hoods but it has always been a pain not being able to shift properly from the drops before). Braking is now more powerful from the drops than the hoods (used to be the other way around with the way I had the hoods set on the bars), which is fine, and I even think the bike handles a touch more nicely with the shorter effective stem length. 

Interestingly, with the bars this high, when I'm out the saddle with cranks horizontal, the position isn't a million miles away from the attack position on my MTBs... this raises interesting possibilities for some of the more adventurous Dartmoor bridleways in the future!


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## Blue Hills (12 May 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> I would rather not have the camping roll mat on top of the rear rack as it is a bit of a giveaway that I'll be



Don't really understand. Concerned that you will be trailed by the camping police?


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## ChrisEyles (13 May 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Don't really understand. Concerned that you will be trailed by the camping police?



Yeah, a little bit! Even if you're not intending to stop the night in a particular spot, you might want to take a break in a particularly pleasant spot and IME you can attract some rather disapproving looks from walkers etc. Obviously not a problem if you're up on Dartmoor where camping's fair game, but some other areas it's good to be as sensitive (well, whatever the opposite of blatant is, really) as you can.


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## Blue Hills (13 May 2017)

but walkers (I assume you mean rambling types) aren't going to hang around of an evening to attack you of an evening surely?


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## ChrisEyles (13 May 2017)

Blimey no, I shouldn't think so! I was more thinking of getting the old "you know you're not supposed to camp here" or similar from well meaning dog walkers.


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## Bikeman27 (19 May 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> I bought a bivvy bag a little while ago with the intention of doing some mini-touring over the weekends. It should hopefully be perfect for wild camping up on Dartmoor/Exmoor.
> 
> Managed to get out after work for a test run last week. The ride itself was very short since I didn't finish work 'til it was getting dark already, but I managed to find a lovely spot in a little birch glade on a bit of Exmoor heathland. It was quite comfy in the early part of the night, but dropped down to 0C later on, which was bloomin' freezing in the sleeping bag/bivvy bag combo! Absolutely amazing display of stars though, I'll definitely be doing this as much as possible once it's warmed up a touch.
> 
> ...





Bodhbh said:


> I've used a 40 odd litre rucksack for my first tour(s) and the South Downs Way. It didn't bother me too much but I'd rather have it on the bike, one way or another.
> 
> I've never had much of a problem with touring off road with the rack/panniers setup. That said, I'm happy to muddle along with whatever comes and aren't really bothered by technical riding. The main issue is pulling wheelies on v steep climbs if all the weight is up back.
> 
> I'm gradually aquiring some of the bikepacking gear to see how the other half lives. Some hidden costs to beware - eg, all your cables may need lengthing to make room for gear if you start lashing stuff to the handlebars. Then you may want a bespoke bag to get the max luggage volume out of your frame triangle. It seems you have to be more thoughtful about what you need and how to compartmentalise things. Some will say that's a plus, but prefer to take what I like and chuck things in. We will see!


I would go for frame bags they attach with Velcro


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## Tilley (20 May 2017)

On the wild camping side, have you thought about using a hammock and tarp?


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## ChrisEyles (20 May 2017)

One of my friends has a hammock/tarp set-up for camping, and it does look good! 

I chose the bivy/tarp combo because it offers a lot more options in terms of Dartmoor camping, where there really aren't many trees on the high moor. Plus it worked out a bit cheaper too.


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## Pale Rider (20 May 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> Blimey no, I shouldn't think so! I was more thinking of getting the old "you know you're not supposed to camp here" or similar from well meaning dog walkers.



A wild camping cyclist told me he picked his spot in daylight, went to the pub for his dinner, then set up when it was dark or close to it.

Chances of a dog walking busybody at that time are low, and if you get one first thing it makes no odds because you will be soon on your way whatever is said.


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## Tilley (20 May 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> One of my friends has a hammock/tarp set-up for camping, and it does look good!
> 
> I chose the bivy/tarp combo because it offers a lot more options in terms of Dartmoor camping, where there really aren't many trees on the high moor. Plus it worked out a bit cheaper too.


Good point, any tree which has managed to survive on the moor tends to be short and distorted.


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## Dayvo (20 May 2017)

I suspect you got cold from the ground up, not because of your sleeping bag. 

I'd advise you to get rid of that foam sleeping mat. A hammock is a possibility (but only if there are two things to fasten it to) or, my preference would be, a inflatable mattress, such as a Exped Downmat 7 (http://www.exped.com/international/en/product-category/mats/downmat-7-m): expensive, but you will not freeze and you will sleep very well.


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## ChrisEyles (20 May 2017)

I've used inflatable mats (borrowed from a friend) before when hiking in the Carpathians and they were great! If I find myself camping out a lot, one would be a really good investment, but they are a bit pricey. 

I've been out a few more nights since this one, with minimum temperatures in the 6C-10C range and have had no problems in the bivy bag plus sleeping bag and wearing lots of clothes... So the current set-up should be good until well into the autumn now. 

Going out again tomorrow night, weather looks good and I've got a great spot in mind up on Exmoor


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## ChrisEyles (23 May 2017)

Had a lovely night out on the moor on Sunday  

I chose one of the local trig points, since it was quite a warm, still night (of which we don't get many up on Exmoor!) so ideal for somewhere a bit less sheltered. 

It was a bit of a tough climb to start with - here's the view from a welcome rest spot on the way up. 






The view from the top is stunning, and there was a beautiful sunset to enjoy while I set about pitching up the tarp and heating up some dinner. 












I went for a slightly different tarp pitch this time, a modified A-frame with the back end sealed shut and flattened to the ground.... this was mainly because the sky was looking quite clear and I was worried about getting cold again if the breeze picked up at all! 









This worked really well and would be good in the wind and rain I think. The only drawbacks are 1) getting in and out is a bit tricky when you're using the bike to prop up the front 2) it feels a bit more like being in a tent than with the more open flying diamond pitch I've used a few times, with less of an open-air feel (which is one of the big reasons I went for the tarp/bivy set-up in the first place). So I think I'll stick with the flying diamond in future unless the weather's bad. Haven't tried a half pyramid pitch yet (which is basically what I have here rotated 90 degrees with the A shape on the long edge of the tarp), but that looks like it may be a halfway house between the two. 

No Exmoor ponies this time, but I work up surrounded by stonechat "chatting" away and flitting up and down to catch insects on the wing. Had one hairy moment on the way down the hill when I had to switch lines from a little jump I normally hit to an easier one more appropriate to the load I was carrying (and to the fact that once again my cycling helmet was being pushed forward over my eyes by my backpack)! This bike's seen quite a lot of abuse over the last 18 months and the wheel bearings are feeling a bit rough... when I get the time I think it deserves a bit of an overhaul. 

Not sure where/when the next outing will be, but I'm going to aim for three or four trips a month over the summer as I'm really enjoying it so far


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## ChrisEyles (23 May 2017)

Looking at those pictures, I clearly need a camo-painted bike to go with the tarp 

Either that or a bright yellow tarp


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## Crankarm (25 May 2017)

Ortlieb panniers are fine for off roading unless you are doing stuff that would make Danny McCaskill blush if he couldn't do with panniers although he probably still could do his tricks on a bike with panniers ;@).

I prefer a one person tent such as a Hubba NX than a bivvy bag.

A rucksack with all your gear in it is a no-no, better to have your stuff on your bike.


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## ChrisEyles (26 May 2017)

Danny McCaskill I am certainly not, but I do enjoy getting airborne on the bike, and my lack of both suspension and technique give the bike a hard life at the best of times let alone if it's laden up! 

I think the next purchase on the wish list is going to be an inflatable mat of some sort. After that I'll look at getting a set of panniers for the MTB (don't want to swap them from bike to bike since I use them almost every outing on my tourer/commuter), or a frame bag if I can find one cheap.


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## ChrisEyles (5 Jun 2017)

Another night's wild camping out on Exmoor the other night. The long evenings are really lovely at the moment. I didn't get to this spot until gone 9pm, but still had plenty of time to pitch up and drift off to the dusk chorus. 







It was another chilly night with some amazing stars, and one of the best reflections of the moon in a lake I've seen in ages (one of the things I like about wild camping is that even getting up and needing to pee is an enjoyable experience!). 

It rained quite a bit in the early hours of the morning, but once again the tarp did it's job perfectly, even though I used a fairly open lean-to pitch this time. A tent might be a tad warmer... but you wouldn't get views like this when you open your eyes first thing in the morning






Just need some more free weekends so I can take it out on a weekend's touring adventure up on Dartmoor!


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> A wild camping cyclist told me he picked his spot in daylight, went to the pub for his dinner, then set up when it was dark or close to it.
> 
> Chances of a dog walking busybody at that time are low, and if you get one first thing it makes no odds because you will be soon on your way whatever is said.


Yes, i always find this caution about early morning dog walkers a bit odd. Dog walkers don't generally have a reputation for doing folk over. I tend to think of them as somewhat philosophical types, and the male of the species possibly henpecked husbands out for a bit of peace. And liable to take up overnight free camping micro adventures themselves.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Panniers are best, but they must be well strapped on and in and an around when the going gets rough. They must be shake-proofed.



What do you mean by shake proofed. Is your reference to "well strapped on" something to do with adding extra straps?


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

@ChrisEyles Can i ask what the bike is chris? Colour scheme makes that Marin look rather old but I see that it has an aheadset.


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## jonny jeez (6 Jun 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> Looking at those pictures, I clearly need a camo-painted bike to go with the tarp
> 
> Either that or a bright yellow tarp


I was thinking the same thing!.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Interesting. Slightly surprised that no one has produced a camo painted bike. Or have they? You can get nice camo gorilla (similar to duct) tape and I have some on my green expedition bike to alleviate cable rub, but you wouldn't use it on the entire bike.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> I've used inflatable mats (borrowed from a friend) before when hiking in the Carpathians and they were great! If I find myself camping out a lot, one would be a really good investment, but they are a bit pricey.
> 
> I've been out a few more nights since this one, with minimum temperatures in the 6C-10C range and have had no problems in the bivy bag plus sleeping bag and wearing lots of clothes... So the current set-up should be good until well into the autumn.


Do keep this thread going with your adventures and info on what you are learning. I must say I like your approach of taking things slowly and trying stuff, not just going out and buying a ton of possibly expensive gear, and some of it would no doubt end up being duplicated in your rush to buy buy buy. I find aldi thermals good for bivvying, either merino or a nice synthetic set which make a nice pair of pajamas, also handy at home in the depfhs of winter if sleeping alone. I don't thing you need to spend a ton of money for good quality stuff these days once you forsake mad weight shaving - and then there are sales - and if you have done lots of practical in-the-field research you can pounce when a bargain comes up.


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## Yellow Saddle (6 Jun 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> What do you mean by shake proofed. Is your reference to "well strapped on" something to do with adding extra straps?


By that I mean you eliminate any internal shakiness/looseness in the bag itself. It is no use if the pannier is well fixed to the bike but the stuff inside shakes around. The most well-behaved loaded panniers are properly and securely affixed to the bike and nothing inside the pannier can move around. I do this in two ways. 1) I pack it so that it is pretty well stuffed inside. For instance, I may even release a sleeping bag from its compression sack to fill all the space. 2) I use extra straps and wrap it like a mummy (exaggeration but it makes the point) so that nothing can wobble.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> By that I mean you eliminate any internal shakiness/looseness in the bag itself. It is no use if the pannier is well fixed to the bike but the stuff inside shakes around. The most well-behaved loaded panniers are properly and securely affixed to the bike and nothing inside the pannier can move around. I do this in two ways. 1) I pack it so that it is pretty well stuffed inside. For instance, I may even release a sleeping bag from its compression sack to fill all the space. 2) I use extra straps and wrap it like a mummy (exaggeration but it makes the point) so that nothing can wobble.


Oh ok, may not need to do all this with my decent ortlieb rear bikepackers - they have good straps built in which allow you to tighten them down top to bottom, front to back. An advantage they maybe have over ortlieb's roll-top designs. Also, i'm not known for underpacking


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## Yellow Saddle (6 Jun 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Oh ok, may not need to do all this with my decent ortlieb rear bikepackers - they have good straps built in which allow you to tighten them down top to bottom, front to back. An advantage they maybe have over ortlieb's roll-top designs. Also, i'm not known for underpacking


I think I should just have said "compression straps" and that would have done it more elegantly.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> I think the next purchase on the wish list is going to be an inflatable mat of some sort.



Might be worth considering.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz...965_ii__vi__&gclid=CMzl7Z3iqNQCFfcy0wodhKcJJA

Been thinking of getting one if my old quite thin thermarest fails. Like you, I take things slowly on acquiring kit. Have tried on on the floor of my local decathlon. Also asked about it on another forum and got some encouraging feedback, seemed quite tough. Two year guarantee. Am wary of some of the very expensive super lightweight mats - some sound rather delicate.


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## Milkfloat (6 Jun 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Might be worth considering.
> 
> https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz...965_ii__vi__&gclid=CMzl7Z3iqNQCFfcy0wodhKcJJA
> 
> Been thinking of getting one if my old quite thin thermarest fails. Like you, I take things slowly on acquiring kit. Have tried on on the floor of my local decathlon. Also asked about it on another forum and got some encouraging feedback, seemed quite tough. Am wary of some of the very expensive super lightweight mats - some sound rather delicate.



I have just ordered a similar one from Alpkit https://www.alpkit.com/products/cloud-base I wanted one wider than the Decathlon one. I am a bit worried about insulation, I might try tin foil underneath.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Please report back on your impressions, including in-use of that. Looks interesting though wonder if the chamber design of that might introduce too many potential points of failure, but has 3 year guarantee. Yes the decathlon forclaz is found to be a bit narrow by some. Seem to remember it did seem a tad narrow from my decathlon floor lie down test. Sod this obsession with weight saving


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## Yellow Saddle (6 Jun 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Please report back on your impressions, including in-use of that. Looks interesting though wonder if the chamber design of that might introduce too many potential points of failure, but has 3 year guarantee. Yes the decathlon forclaz is found to be a bit narrow by some. Seem to remember it did seem a tad narrow from my decathlon floor lie down test. Sod this obsession with weight saving


Both Aldi and Lidl have such mats right now for about GBP 14. I'm no expert on self-inflatables, I sleep on a 80mm thick blow-up airbed. To me it is worth teh weight and effort but I appreciate that others can sleep comfortably on a knobbly, wobbly plank and still wake up cheerful. It may be worth a look.


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## steveindenmark (6 Jun 2017)

A couple of things about being cold. Roughing it is easy. Being very comfortable takes just a little planning.

There are a few things I take, whether it is cycle touring or motorbike touring. I have found over the years these things make a great difference in my sleeping comfort.

Down sleeping bag and silk liner. The liners are cheap and keep the inside of your sleeping bag clean. They also add a few degrees of heat. 

Down jacket. Packs to nothing. Great for sitting around in at night. The only downside is that you will probably have to take it off during the night because you will be too warn.

Polar buff or beanie for your head and ears. Summer nights can be cold. You lose most of your heat through your head.

Ear plugs. The dawn chorus use to wake me up.

Exped Air U/L sleeping mat. Very Light, packs small and it super warn and comfy.

A good nights sleep can be the difference between a good tour and a bad tour.

I am going to make a cover for my sleeping bag today. It will be very light and is already treated with a finish. But I will use a spray to make it even more water repellent. I will see how it goes and post some pictures. 

If I make 2. One of you lot can test it for me.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Both Aldi and Lidl have such mats right now for about GBP 14. I'm no expert on self-inflatables, I sleep on a 80mm thick blow-up airbed. To me it is worth teh weight and effort but I appreciate that others can sleep comfortably on a knobbly, wobbly plank and still wake up cheerful. It may be worth a look.


Yes I know - they look rather similar I think. Seem to remember that someone on a forum reported good things back on the comfort of the Aldi one. But though I'm no minimalist (I'm at the kitchen sink end of the spectrum) they looked rather big when packed - when placed sideways on the top rack I had the impression that they would stick out more than I am comfortable with - wouldn't want the mat to stick out more than the tent which is also placed sideways.


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## ChrisEyles (6 Jun 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> @ChrisEyles Can i ask what the bike is chris? Colour scheme makes that Marin look rather old but I see that it has an aheadset.



The bike is a '97 Marin Hawk Hill, one of the lower range hard tails they offered at the time. Main triangle is CroMo, seat/chainstays are hi-ten steel. I think it was originally kitted out with acera/altus running gear, though its now sporting a slightly nicer STX crankset (which I think is one of the smartest MTB groupsets shimano ever produced). At some stage I need to replace the RD and brake levers, and might try and match these with more STX gear if I can find it on the cheap. 

The fork was originally a nasty grey RST 381 elastomer jobby that didn't work very well. I was lucky enough to find an original period-correct Marin rigid fork over on retrobike, which is what's on now... so the colour pairing isn't quite original, though I think it's quite in keeping with the Marins of that era, and I really like it. I have a serious weakness for yellow bikes!


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## ChrisEyles (6 Jun 2017)

Very interested in the Aldi/Lidl mats, thanks for flagging these up!


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

Thanks for the info on the bike chris - how many speeds? - if you want to replace a few bits I'd do it sharpish. And lay in stocks.

97 was a good year I think - after that a fair few manufacturers went to aluminium and have only recently rediscovered the simple wonder of steel - I have three Ridgebacks from 97.


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## ChrisEyles (6 Jun 2017)

It's a 3x7 drivetrain - I think (hope!) it's still relativlely easy to source a 7 speed freewheel, isn't it? The RD is currently an AceraX model, but I've got a 7 speed STX in the garage for when it gives up the ghost. STX and STX-RC brake levers come up fairly often on ebay (at wildly varying prices!), and I'll need to get some of these sometime fairly soon since the barrel adjusters aren't working any more on the current levers, which is a bit annoying. Grip shiffts still going strong so far! 

I've also got a '97 Marin Shoreline Trail - the budget version of the flagship Mount Vision XC full susser. Pretty much only the frame (Ally frame on this one) and forks are original on that one though. It might not be much of a match for a modern FS bike performance-wise, but looks-wise I think it knocks spots of the competition


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

I think barrel adjusters are available separately.

I was confused at first by your search for specific brake levers then, wondered, are they perhaps canti brakes?

If so, ever considered switching to V brakes?

edit - close look - they are probably already Vs.

Surely any V levers will be fine? I recently fitted some to a bike, then took them off and replaced with a new pair I got for a tenner as I preffered the mounting of them over the ones that cost twice as much.

V brake pads from

http://www.discobrakes.com/


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## ChrisEyles (6 Jun 2017)

Yep, they are Avid V brakes (think the bike was originally specced with cantis but I'm not sad the previous owner made the swap). No special reason for wanting STX levers, only as a bit of period-correct bling for the bike. I've already got some nice cartridge pads fitted wth a few spare pads in the garage. 

I don't think new barrel adjusters will solve the problem unfortunately - the lever housing is plastic and the threads have stripped out, so under hard braking the cable slackens off!! So I've set the barrels to the slackest setting, but it does mean I can't tweak the brakes any more. 

Would love to see a couple of pics of your '97 Ridgebacks if you've got some!


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## Blue Hills (6 Jun 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> Would love to see a couple of pics of your '97 Ridgebacks if you've got some!


sent you a pm to avoid diverting thread from your overnight adventures.


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## ChrisEyles (19 Jun 2017)

Went out again last night, up on the Exmoor moorland again. It was so warm (min 15C overnight), with no risk of rain, that I left the tarp behind and bivvied under the stars. 

Climbing up the hill was insanely hot work so I took it easy and made a few stops in the shady woods for some tea, watching the birds snatching flies on the wing. Made it up to the top for 9pm ish with plenty of daylight left and settled down to enjoy a lovely sunset. 

I was woken up very early in the dawn chorus by a grasshopper warbler (the second one I've heard while wild camping, which is interesting as they're usually quite elusive birds) and greeted by a small herd of Exmoor ponies in the morning. 












I foolishly forgot to bring my roll-mat along with me this time. While I didn't have to worry about the cold creeping up from the ground, I was worried I would have a bit of a rough night, since the ground up on the heath is quite hard and stony. Interestingly, comfort-wise I couldn't tell much difference - I guess this means my roll-mat is a bit rubbish! Might be the excuse I need to splash out on one of those Aldi therma-rests. 

So this has been the most minimal camp so far with just a bivvy bag and a sleeping bag... and it was so warm I probably *really* need either!


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## Blue Hills (20 Jun 2017)

Thanks for the post, keep them coming please.

Quite an achievement to forget the mat on such a minimalist trip


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## ChrisEyles (20 Jun 2017)

Haha, yep... I live in fear of one day forgetting my dinner!


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## ChrisEyles (10 Jul 2017)

Had another lovely wild camp last night, this time with some slight kit modifications. 

I borrowed a small thermarest from a friend to try it out, and used this instead of the roll mat (inside the bivvy bag rather than underneath)... it was amazing! I don't think I've ever had such a comfortable night outdoors. Just like with mountain biking, it seems that pressure is critical - too much and it felt like a trampoline, but just enough to keep you off the ground and it was smashing. 

This one was very small so I did find myself falling off a few times in the night, but on the flip side it packs down into next to nothing. I can imagine it would also make a big difference to comfort against the cold in the winter. I'll persevere with the old roll mat for now, but I can't see myself holding out forever on this - just need a good excuse to buy one! 

It's also worth mentioning that having the bivvy bag directly on the floor rather than on a roll mat was fine on the grass, but I wouldn't want to do it too often on rougher ground as I imagine it would wear pretty quickly. So long term plan is keep the roll mat under the bivy and splash out on a thermarest or cheaper copy when I'm feeling rich (feeling very very very unrich right now after just pranging the car and talking to the insurance people )

After quite a few nights out, I've got the tarp rigging down to fifteen minutes or so including getting everything I need out the bag and in place. Had some rain overnight and once again it performed perfectly. I vastly prefer it to the (weeks and weeks of) camping I've done in tents... you can probably tell why by the third pic below 













It might also be worth mentioning that all the overnight camps I've done in this thread have been based around very short rides. The longest has probably been seven or eight miles out to the campsite, while yesterday's outward trip was only a couple of miles*... and it's still great fun! 

Might be food for thought for anyone who's worried about carrying heavy kit (especially if they're using a backpack like me) on a long/tough ride. I know I'm spoilt for choice being close to Dartmoor and working on Exmoor, but if you can see a likely looking wood near you on the OS map it might be worth a quick reccy! 

*actually I went quite a bit further, out to the top of the local biggest hill, but the woodland was very dense and the only clearings were covered in bracken, which with all the deer around equals crawling with ticks. So I backtracked and ended up quite close to where I set out from.


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## Blue Hills (12 Jul 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> It's also worth mentioning that having the bivvy bag directly on the floor rather than on a roll mat was fine on the grass, but I wouldn't want to do it too often on rougher ground as I imagine it would wear pretty quickly. So long term plan is keep the roll mat under the bivyo



I find it easier to have my thermarest inside the bivvy - but then my bivi is a big ex army thing. That way there's no rolling off problem. I put a cheap light B&Q tarp under the bivi - those blue things you see around. Doesn't take much room. And I use it under my tent groundsheet.

Do keep the reports coming - I bivvied myself in a somewhat less lovely place on Sunday after the Dynamo,


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## ChrisEyles (21 Jul 2017)

I've been sharing my bivvying adventures with my Dad when I've popped around for a cuppa, and he's been very keen to join me on one. So last weekend we drove up onto Dartmoor and did a short walk out from the army camp roads onto the moor. We found an absolutely perfect camping spot.... but it was already full of army chappies setting up for a night exercise! I asked them what they were up to and if it would be OK for us to camp, and they somewhat sheepishly admitted there might be quite a lot of blank firing during the night. So we re-traced our steps and found another spot for a nice little cook-up and cuppa on the stove, where we set up camp for the night. 










Anyway, I thought people on here might be interested to know that my Dad used a £5 B&Q tarp and a very budget sleeping bag with no bivvy bag, and still managed to have a perfectly comfortable, dry night. So no excuses for anyone wanting to try out a bit of cowboy camping! 

(it drizzled a bit with heavy dew... but I wouldn't necessarily advise such a minimalist gear list for serious weather conditions)


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## ChrisEyles (21 Jul 2017)

At the other end of the weather conditions spectrum, I found another lovely new camping spot up on Exmoor this week (don't think I've camped at the same place twice yet), and stayed up there during a pretty epic thunderstorm. Didn't get a huge amount of sleep with all the thunder and lightning (some very impressive forks over the hills) but did stay perfectly dry, to my considerable surprise. 









I did miss the thermarest I borrowed from my friend though. Anyone got any recommendations for a cheap one that packs down fairly small?


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2017)

That B&Q tarp is the same as I use under me I think.

Great posts - keep them coming - top marks to your dad.

Apologies if I've asked before but what are you using for poles? I have only ever strung a tarp up between trees.

I'll be interested in replies to your question about mats as the way you have framed it should exclude any suggestions of ones weighing 3g that are super costy and always to me look suspiciously delicate.


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## Crackle (21 Jul 2017)

ChrisEyles said:


> Anyone got any recommendations for a cheap one that packs down fairly small?


Alpkit or check Vango and Regatta for cheap and cheerful mats. The latter might be too heavy or big though. Alpkit is definetly good stuff at a reasonable price.


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## ChrisEyles (21 Jul 2017)

@Blue Hills I quite often get by using just the bike as a support for the tarp and a flying diamond pitch. If this doesn't give enough space underneath I've got a stick about the width of my camping roll that I put in the middle of the roll to raise another corner for a lean-to type pitch. I was initially worried this wouldn't be very weather proof, but so far it seems excellent in that regard, and gives a lot more room under the tarp. As well as being a bit more comfortable and open feeling this can be good for heavy rain as the tarp tends to sag down under the weight of the water and the wind, and if it sags enough to touch the bivvy bag you're going to get very wet! On a couple of occasions I've forgotten my "special" stick and fashioned a replacement from the nearest hedgerow, which also works fine. 

When I went out on Dartmoor with my Dad I borrowed a couple of hiking poles from another friend. These are really the optimal solution as they're adjustable and the spike on the bottom fits perfectly through the tarp eyelets, so if you've got one I'd recommend using it. However the simple stick works well enough that I don't really see the point in buying one especially for the purpose (and I don't like hiking with poles so no other use for one). 

Trees work even better, with more room under the tarp if you've got one handy, but the flexibility of not having to camp under a tree is very useful. 

@Crackle thanks for the recommendation, I'll check out the Alpkit stuff online.


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2017)

Thanks for the reply Chris.

Ah I see from the pics, looking more closely, that the bike is guyed out is it not? And then the tarp pulled and guyed against that?

I suppose my only concern (serious actually - it's the sort of thing that bothers me) is that the bike might somehow fall and injure me. Particularly as my ropecraft isn't the best.

On poles, I do have one of these:

http://www.lomo.co.uk/acatalog/medium-bivi-pole.html

But haven't used it. It's no wider than my tent and other junk when they are sideways on my rack. But it is a tad beefy. At least it's not going to break. The extension system is quite good. Continuously variable.


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## ChrisEyles (21 Jul 2017)

@Blue Hills, yes I should have mentioned I guy the bike out first. I use two lengths (6'-9') of para cord to do this. One of them goes around the saddle rails and is pegged out on either side to the rear at a 45 degree angle. The other goes around the head tube and is pegged out on either side to the front at a 45 degree angle. The guy line on one of the tarp corners then goes either over the saddle or around the saddle rails and is pegged down on the other side of the bike. 

Here's the clearest pic I have of the set-up (on my touring bike I use the rear rack rather than the saddle rails, but you get the idea). 






I was also initially very worried about the bike falling on me! But when properly pegged out the bike is very stable indeed - and the down force from the tarp guy line makes it even more stable. I've used this pitching method in fairly strong wind, and I'll admit I did worry quite a lot during the night and sleep less well than I would have otherwise. However it has been rock solid every time, so I'm learning to relax and trust it. To give you an idea of the degree to which I shared your concern, the first windy night I spent with this set-up I slept in my cycling helmet (which was actually surprising comfortable)! 

No real bushcraft required to do this you'll be relieved to know. I used bowline knots to make loops on either end of the guy ropes (very easy, you can look it up online), but any old knot should do the trick. I did play around with trucker's hitches to tension up the guy lines but it's a bit of a faff and really not necessary, you can get all the tension you'll ever need by simply moving the pegs to the required position. 

That bivvi pole looks good, guess it would do the same job as the hiking pole but like you say a bit beefier. I would recommend using the bike for one high corner of the tarp and the pole for the other in a lean-to configuration. That's the pitch I'm settling in on in the absence of a nice high tree branch (in which case I prefer a flying diamond pitch). Or I guess you could use two poles if you don't trust the bike - but I somehow really like using the bike as a tent pole!


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## Blue Hills (21 Jul 2017)

Great post chris.

At the risk of being picky/nervous, impressive as this system is, the other thing that would concern me is that your sleeping place is less stealthy than it might be since the bike could be quite visible.
Views?


I am afraid I am pretty bad at knots and though I have practised them a bit I tend to forget them.
Luckily cheap technology seems to have made most knots apart from the very simple permanent things all but redundant.
I can recommend some bits if you like.

Looking forward to more of your adventures.


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## RoubaixCube (22 Jul 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I am afraid I am pretty bad at knots




You canknot be serious!

Sorry, i couldn't let it be after i read it. Don't worry, I'll go hang myself now...know any good knots? 

::edit::

Very nice pictures though, loving the scenery


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## ChrisEyles (22 Jul 2017)

@Blue Hills if you can't tie knots - tie lots! 

Alternatively, the nice thing about bowline knots for the guy ropes is they don't tend to work loose (they are designed to tether boats which are constantly tugging on the line after all). So you can look up how to do the knot at home, make the knots in front of youtube, and then pretty much never have to re-knot them again. Though after you've done eight guy ropes on each end you will probably remember the knot in any case! 

Yes, having the bike as a bivvy pole is definitely a bit more conspicuous than using a collapsible pole. I've vaguely thought about getting some camo tape to cover my bike in (I can't remember if it was mickle or another cyclechatter who did this to an adventure style bike, and it looked really good), but I *love* the lairy yellow frame and red forks on that bike so can't bring myself to do it. 

So far my solutions have been 1) camp on Dartmoor where camping is allowed 2) on Exmoor camp on or near land that I manage myself for work - I'm the only person who's likely to tell off illicit campers there 3) arrive/pitch up late around 9pm and leave early around 6am. 

Numbers 1 and 2 won't be available for most but number 3 should do the trick 99% of the time. Obviously you have to pick and choose your spots, and be a bit flexible. I planned a while ago to camp at a lovely spot on the SW coast path that I remember coming across when hiking, but when I got there it was far too exposed and public on a very popular walking route close to a town, so dog walkers coming up well into the evening. Nice as the spot was, I ended up retreated a mile or so inland and camping on some quieter heathland.


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## User32269 (22 Jul 2017)

I love this thread! I use same tarp as your dad @ChrisEyles and cheepo sleeping bag. To be fair, I'm only a nice summer weather rough camper though. 
I'm taking my soon to be ten year old lad on his first one soon. A little mini adventure on our bikes with a night under the tarp. Can't wait!


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## User32269 (22 Jul 2017)

I need to upgrade my cooking kit I think!
Has served me well though!


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## ChrisEyles (24 Jul 2017)

@odav the cheapest and most convenient cooking solution I've found is to use a little hexi burner and solid fuel blocks, something like this: 






http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-...Hexi-burner-Army-Camping-Scouts-/222375613640

I've then got a set of ally billy cans to heat up food and water for a cuppa - like this: 






(sorry can't find a link for a set exactly like this, most seem a bit bulkier and mine is pretty old!)

The hexi burner, lighter and fuel fit inside the cans for storage, with just enough room for a placcy bag of porridge and an end of loo roll crammed in too. 

One fuel tablets is usually enough to heat up a meal for one or to boil enough water for a cuppa. 

That's awesome that you're taking your son out on a camping adventure  Hope you both have a great time!


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## Blue Hills (25 Jul 2017)

Re your search for a mat, there is this.

https://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-...iate_window&utm_campaign=aff*HotUKDeals_47868

Have not seen, felt, jumped on one. May be ok, maybe not.
One djsparaging comment about the depth but i'm pretty sure it is as deep as my old thermarest which i recently bivvied in a grass verge on top of and slept fine.


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## uphillstruggler (25 Jul 2017)

I bought this recently and like it a lot. packs up small too.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-a200-ultralight-camping-sleeping-mat-l-green-id_8195174.html


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## ChrisEyles (18 Aug 2017)

In the end I picked up one of the Tesco roll mats, after @Blue Hills pointed out they were on offer at £6. I've used mine a few times now and am really pleased with it. Time will tell how well it lasts, but comfort-wise it's right up there with the Thermarest I borrowed. Only drawback is it doesn't pack down anywhere near as small (in fact its a fair bit larger when inflated than it really needs to be), but epically worth it for a good night's sleep! 

I've noticed I've also been getting a bit more choosy about my camping spots. Last weekend I returned to the spot I did my first (freezing cold!!) bivvy trip. I remember it as being a great camping spot, but when I got there, the whole site seemed to be on a bit too much of a slope, with a few too many big roots around. Eventually I found a nice little flat spot next to a tree and experimented a bit with a more open tarp pitch. It rained a fair bit in the early hours of the morning, but having correctly guessed the wind direction I stayed perfectly dry, which surprised me for such an open arrangement. 










Really looking forward to the nights drawing in a bit (it's not often I think that!!) so I can get in some star gazing before crashing out as dictated by the early start.


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## Blue Hills (18 Aug 2017)

That first pic is particularly nice. Looks almost like a french impressionist on this small tab, though don't recall any with yellow mountain bikes. Glad you are enjoying the mat- hope it lasts.


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