# Advice needed - Bike seized



## simpso (24 Aug 2015)

HI Everyone,

I was today making my usual commute into work when three guys came upto me and grabbed my bike.
They claimed it was there's and that i had stolen it.
Obviously i did not, i have had the bike from new for 18 months now. 
They produced a picture of a bike which was the same make a colour as mine as well as a rusty cash converters receipt. 
The police got involved and asked me to produce proof it was mine, e.g the serial number.
As i was on my way to work i didnt have any of this to hand, so the police took my bike away.
The police also confirmed the guy who was accusing me had had a bike stolen five months before.

Spoke to Halfords and as it was an online purchase and self build they dont keep any records of the serial number.
After coming home i cant find any details of the serial number but have found, the invoice, credit card statement and a dated picture of the bike when i got it linked to my facebook account.

The dates on all of these tally together.

What i want to know has anyone been through this before and will it be enough to prove the bike is mine.

Thanks in advance.


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## Donger (24 Aug 2015)

I can understand your concern, @simpso, and no, I don't have experience of that in particular .... but I would be _most_ surprised if the evidence you have was not enough for the police. When they got involved, you were outnumbered by people claiming it was their bike and you were unable to prove evidence to the contrary. I think the shoe should very definitely be on the other foot now, with what paperwork you have. Don't worry about the serial number, just get yourself straight down to the police station and I'm sure you'll be OK.


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## si_c (24 Aug 2015)

Just to add to the above, with the evidence you have (receipts etc) should be more than sufficient. Although it is good practice to record your serial numbers (I just take a photo), as your insurance company would want this information if it were ever stolen, as would the police. With what you have, I would say the burden of proof lay on the other side, i.e. they need to prove that the serial number of your bike matches the one that was stolen, which as you have had it from new, they cannot do.


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## ianrauk (24 Aug 2015)

If you have the invoice/receipt then away you go.


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## jonny jeez (24 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> HI Everyone,
> 
> I was today making my usual commute into work when three guys came upto me and grabbed my bike.
> They claimed it was there's and that i had stolen it.
> ...


Blimey...not sure how I would react in that situation. Perhaps we should all carry proof of purchase as this sounds like a scam to me, can you let us know how you get on...sorry if that sounds selfish.


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## Pale Rider (24 Aug 2015)

Always post a 'my new bike' thread on CycleChat.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

Its up to them prove its theirs, not you to prove its yours (although if you are able to indisputably prove its yours it cuts out a lot of crap.)

How did you pay for it? Will it show up on a bank statement or credit card bill? As you bought it online I would presume that would be quite straightforward, and you've got all your documentation squared away by the sounds of it.

I dont know the ins and outs of this particular case, but seizing a bike solely for being the same make and model as one stolen 5 months ago is hard to justify as reasonable. Stolen 5 minutes ago from just around the corner then maybe, but 5 months ago and a make and model sold nationally by the nations largest cycle retailer... I just can't see how that steps over the threshold from "coincidence" into "reasonable"...

In addition , by effectively detaining you with the bike matey and his chums may have acted unlawfully. I say "may" as I wasn't present so don't know how they went about it. A copper need only reasonable grounds to suspect you're guilty of an offence, but a member of the public has to "know" that you are the one, and clearly in this case they do not.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

Have CashConverters been contacted yet. They keep records of all sales, including who brought it in.

How close to what you bought do the receipts from Halfords come to what was seized. I'd be contacting Halfords for proof of what they supplied in the order to you. This will be on record, for stock purposes at the least.


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## JMAG (24 Aug 2015)

This sounds completely bonkers to me. Let's say you have a Boardman Comp or whatever. Did these lunatics march up to the first person riding a Boardman Comp and claim it as theirs? Did they provide any proof of ownership with serial number recorded? 

I don't doubt they had a similar bike stolen, but without a shred of proof that the bike wasn't yours I think the police are on shakey ground by seizing your bike. Your documents will be sufficient so I wouldn't worry about that, but I would complain about having your bike seized.

The only other thought I have is are you sure the police were real? I just can't believe they would have sufficient probable cause (or whatever) to seize a mass produced bike like this.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

Fake police!
Who called them?


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## JMAG (24 Aug 2015)

I don't know, just thinking out loud really. Seems unlikely if they had a picture and a receipt, but scam artists can be quite devious. Bizarre whichever way you look at it IMO


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

They would need to prove the bike was theirs by giving the frame No. If the number they give does not match then it obviously isn't theirs but you may be on dodgy ground if you cannot prove it to be yours. Did the bike not come with a label with the serial No. on it, after all just because you purchased a bike of that model (and it is yours) may well not be sufficient proof for the bike to be returned to you sadly.
Better advice could be given by one of the serving officers on here like @CopperCyclist or @Drago to name a couple (and alert them)


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## Pale Rider (24 Aug 2015)

JMAG said:


> This sounds completely bonkers to me. Let's say you have a Boardman Comp or whatever. Did these lunatics march up to the first person riding a Boardman Comp and claim it as theirs? Did they provide any proof of ownership with serial number recorded?
> 
> I don't doubt they had a similar bike stolen, but without a shred of proof that the bike wasn't yours I think the police are on shakey ground by seizing your bike. Your documents will be sufficient so I wouldn't worry about that, but I would complain about having your bike seized.
> 
> The only other thought I have is are you sure the police were real? I just can't believe they would have sufficient probable cause (or whatever) to seize a mass produced bike like this.



I suppose the coppers can't win.

We all complain when they refuse to act when a stolen bike is being sold openly on ebay, but we also complain when they do seize an allegedly stolen bike.


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## Gez73 (24 Aug 2015)

No help to you sorry and I am sure you will get it sorted. Just photographed my paperwork including the serial number, thankfully. Plenty of bike pictures on phone too from time of purchase. Sounds a little harsh but hopefully you will get it sorted. A lesson for us all I guess, however unlikely it seems. Hope you get it resolved. Gez


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## CopperCyclist (24 Aug 2015)

As most have said - don't worry about the serial number. Go in with your proof of purchase that you do have and that should be enough. 

As for commenting on the decision made to seize your bike - as I want there I won't! However what I would like people to consider is the fact that clearly the police thought they were doing the right thing - there is no other possible reason they would have seized the bike!


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

As we speak, the Copper is wheelieing it round the back yard at the nick!


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## simpso (24 Aug 2015)

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I have to wait for the officer in charge of the investigation to come duty tomorrow afternoon before I can do anything apparently.
Hopefully it will all be sorted by then, never even considered the police possibly being wrong in seizing it. I guess it was the easiest option for them.

Made me think though how someone could point at anything and produce a picture and receipt and you lose them because you can't proove there and then it's yours.
Trainers come to mind or something like that.

Does anyone think I can't put a complaint in against the accusers when I get the bike back. Lost two hours of work, had to. Walk home, inconvenience all down to them seeing a bike which is the same colour.

One thing they said that made me really suspicious is they noticed my handle bar was bent and they claimed they bent the bar on their bike so they could prove it was theres if it ever got stolen....

Ah what a day


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> As we speak, the Copper is wheelieing it round the back yard at the nick!


You know you're not supposed to be doing that!


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## kiriyama (24 Aug 2015)

I don't know what I would do in that situation. .. If I knew 100% that the bike was mine, which mine are, I wouldn't even give it to the police. How well that would go down with them, and how much trouble I'd get in, I don't know! Ha. Hope you get thebike back and a sincere apology from the police and the accuser. ..


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## simpso (24 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Have CashConverters been contacted yet. They keep records of all sales, including who brought it in.
> 
> How close to what you bought do the receipts from Halfords come to what was seized. I'd be contacting Halfords for proof of what they supplied in the order to you. This will be on record, for stock purposes at the least.


The invoice, has the date of purchase the make and model. I then have a picture two days later of that bike attached to my facebook account. Feel I will need daily pictures of me with the bike .... And a newspaper from now one


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## cisamcgu (24 Aug 2015)

I would have wanted a warrant, or whatever, before I let some policeman wheel my bike away.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> The invoice, has the date of purchase the make and model. I then have a picture two days later of that bike attached to my facebook account. Feel I will need daily pictures of me with the bike .... And a newspaper from now one


They should have been able to supply those details, in full to you as well. Backing up what you are saying. 
Producing a receipt becomes a handy way off getting a second item(that has been saved for you) for nothing, in busy shops.


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## Smokin Joe (24 Aug 2015)

I can't understand this.

Were you arrested and cautioned? I can't see how the police would have the power to just take your bike from you without doing that. And if it was an online purchase there will be a record on both yours and the sellers PC.


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## simpso (24 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't understand this.
> 
> Were you arrested and cautioned? I can't see how the police would have the power to just take your bike from you without doing that. And if it was an online purchase there will be a record on both yours and the sellers PC.



No I wasnt arrested or anything. I'm a bit naive to the way it works and I was led to believe they were seizing it as I couldnt 100% prove there and then by serial number no that the bike was mine. Even though the officer said he's sure this is my bike but can't let me ride it away with out the proof.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> No I wasnt arrested or anything. I'm a bit naive to the way it works and I was led to believe they were seizing it as I couldnt 100% prove there and then by serial number no that the bike was mine. Even though the officer said he's sure this is my bike but can't let me ride it away with out the proof.


Did you get his number and a receipt for the property he was taking from him? I've seldom had "proof" that the bike I'm riding on is mine. 

In all of this, one thing stands out. Hindsight is wonderful. Not having a go at anyone, but with hindsight its easy to see where you'd have done something else. With this in mind, how about a small plastic bag inserted in some part of the frame, with something only you should be able to get. Doesn't have to be personal information.

Anybody know where hindsight can be purchased?


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## simpso (24 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Did you get his number and a receipt for the property he was taking from him?


I was given a crime reference with a contact number, that's about it.
It was a bit all over the place as we dealt with the travel police and then the west mids police came and took over as they were dealing with the original bike theft case from five months ago. It was the west mids police that took the bike and told me where they were taking it but then they said another station would be the one dealing with the case.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't understand this.
> 
> Were you arrested and cautioned? I can't see how the police would have the power to just take your bike from you without doing that. And if it was an online purchase there will be a record on both yours and the sellers PC.


PC not with him when bike was seized though.


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

I have photos of my bike and frame number accessible from my phone, and identifying photos (plus loads of photos on here going back years). And the frame is postcode marked to the shop I bought it from who would still recognise me to corroborate my version. I'm obviously paranoid that this could happen to me!

I hope you get it all sorted tomorrow!


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## huwsparky (24 Aug 2015)

Can't believe the police seized your bike based on what they had..... Then again, maybe I can.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> I was given a crime reference with a contact number, that's about it.
> It was a bit all over the place as we dealt with the travel police and then the west mids police came and took over as they were dealing with the original bike theft case from five months ago. It was the west mids police that took the bike and told me where they were taking it but then they said another station would be the one dealing with the case.


You got numbers for both stations, not forces? BTP headquarters number is on my handset as well as regional offices.


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## jefmcg (24 Aug 2015)

This seems just nonsense.

I don't see how having the serial number proves anything, if the bike is in your possession. All it proves is that at some point you have turned it over. Of course, if the robbed parties had the serial number of your bike, that would prove something. Which obviously they don't.

I wonder if they were ever robbed. The idea of denting a bike to prove it is yours in the event of a robbery, but not noting its serial number seems unlikely. I wonder if you are the victim of an poorly thought through scam?


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> This seems just nonsense.
> 
> I don't see how having the serial number proves anything, if the bike is in your possession. All it proves is that at some point you have turned it over. Of course, if the robbed parties had the serial number of your bike, that would prove something. Which obviously they don't.
> 
> I wonder if they were ever robbed. The idea of denting a bike to prove it is yours in the event of a robbery, but not noting its serial number seems unlikely. I wonder if you are the victim of an poorly thought through scam?


The OP didn't have the frame/serial number, at the time, either. Seems odd that three separate stations are involved in this though.


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## matiz (25 Aug 2015)

So if I'm out for the day on the bike 50miles from home and pass someone who has had the same make of bike stolen they can grab me call the police and dibble march off with my bike with no proof of wrong doing leaving me stranded, something strange is going on.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

Seems as though it happened at a railway station, BTP involved. Who then passed the matter onto the local police.
If the BTP were involved, I'd be contacting them as soon as possible, via e-mail and telephone(reading from the e-mail).


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## swee'pea99 (25 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> I dont know the ins and outs of this particular case, but seizing a bike solely for being the same make and model as one stolen 5 months ago is hard to justify as reasonable


Absolutely. Bizarre. You had your property taken away from you because somebody else, with absolutely no proof whatsoever, said it was theirs? What in God's name is the legal basis for that?


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

Garry A said:


> I think someone would be getting their arse kicked at the end of this.


If not, they should be!


At present the OP posts appear to be under moderation, new poster, which might explain why he doesn't answer a question for some time. Worth bearing in mind.

*Mod edit*: he should be out of moderation now, I think. Spinney


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## Gez73 (25 Aug 2015)

I checked my phone last night and I have several photos from the time I bought my bike but not really useful if the claimant is saying theirs was stolen before the dates of the photos. I would probably have refused to hand it over myself but then I have a lengthy commute and would not want to be without my bike anyway. Sounds very odd procedure and a little unreasonable on the OP. Will wait with interest for the outcome. Gez


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## Pale Rider (25 Aug 2015)

I think the OP has been badly done to, but I wonder if the bike was seized to enable the coppers to diffuse a potentially difficult situation.

There were three blokes, who presumably would have been angry if the OP was allowed to ride off into the sunset.

At that point, there may have been only one or two policemen - not good odds, even with a uniform.

Even so, it might have been fairer if the coppers followed the OP home to check the proof, or made some attempt to establish his identity/address at the roadside.

That might not be simple, few of us carry such documents when cycling, although the thread was originally posted in commuting, so a call to the OP's workplace may have moved matters forward.

Nonetheless, it is tempting to complain about the police's conduct.

I have some limited experience of that from both sides.

Seems to me complaints are taken seriously.

No one will get the sack here, but I doubt the OP wants that.

What may happen is the officers concerned receive appropriate advice from a senior officer which they would do well not to ignore.


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## mjr (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Of course, if the robbed parties had the serial number of your bike, that would prove something.


It'd prove they'd looked under the BB while the bike was stopped/parked?


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## Brandane (25 Aug 2015)

Smokin Joe said:


> I can't understand this.
> 
> Were you arrested and cautioned? I can't see how the police would have the power to just take your bike from you without doing that. And if it was an online purchase there will be a record on both yours and the sellers PC.


Looking at this from the Police POV, they are as usual in a no-win situation.
They have 3 people telling them the bike is possibly stolen, and another person claiming to be the rightful owner. The Police have the power to seize property which they have reasonable cause to believe is stolen. What are they supposed to do?
Consider the scenario, which is not unlikely, that the bike IS actually stolen, but they let the rider go off with the bike because they cannot prove the case there and then. How would you feel if you were the rightful owner of the bike and the Police had just let the thief disappear with your bike, and the evidence?
The Police have done the right thing here IMO by taking possession. At least everyone knows where the bike is until the situation is resolved, which is the whole point of them taking it. The OP may be inconvenienced for a few days but such is life. Better that than the 3 amigos confronting him again and forcibly taking the bike from him; at least now they might be placated by the fact that the bike is proven to be NOT the one they had stolen.


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## Drago (25 Aug 2015)

On the evidence presented I wouldn't have seize it. Simply being on the same make and model of bike sold by a huge national retailer 5 months after a similar one stolen falls short of reasonable... unless the original crime report included information relating to unique features of the stolen machine such as serial numbers, damage, accessories.

You wouldn't expect to have your Barbour jacket, Casio watch or even Ford Focus seized 5 months after a similar item was stolen, and why should a Carrera XYZ be any different?

Without some degree of corroboration such as a unique identifying feature there's no evidence. Simply being on a bike of same make and model is not a reasonable suspicion.


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## Brandane (25 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> On the evidence presented I wouldn't have seize it. Simply being on the same make and model of bike sold by a huge national retailer 5 months after a similar one stolen falls short of reasonable... unless the original crime report included information relating to unique features of the stolen machine such as serial numbers, damage, accessories.
> 
> You wouldn't expect to have your Barbour jacket, Casio watch or even Ford Focus seized 5 months after a similar item was stolen, and why should a Carrera XYZ be any different?
> 
> Without some degree of corroboration such as a unique identifying feature there's no evidence. Simply being on a bike of same make and model is not a reasonable suspicion.


You've got 3 witnesses all claiming that the bike has a unique identifying feature (the bent bars, although I don't believe for one second that anyone would deliberately bend their bars so that they could identify it if it was stolen in the future). I think you would be in a bit of bother if you didn't take possession of the bike and it later transpired that it WAS stolen. I would have taken the bike until further enquiries were made.


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> It'd prove they'd looked under the BB while the bike was stopped/parked?


I assumed the bike had been previously reported stolen.

If it hadn't, there is no possible justification for this action. You can't expect to police to step in to reclaim your property if you never reported the theft.


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## Drago (25 Aug 2015)

The power of seizure is one of reasonable belief, not of suspicion.

You'd be in equal bother is you usurped an innocent persons rights by unlawfully seizing property. Seizing items "just to on the safe side" will get you prosecuted.

The OP hasn't gone into great depth, but I can't see why details of the original crime report weren't establish (minutes at most, seconds at best if the local Force use the same command and control system as BTP). If the bent bars are corroborated in some way on the original crime report (a photo is the obvious means) then you're laughing. If it isn't, you're grounds for reasonable belief are evaporating. 3 guys in the street you never met pointing at a bike you've never seen and shouting about a 5 month old theft of which you've never heard is undoubtedly an emotional moment, but of itself is not evidential. The evidence gathered during investigation is on the crime report, and no power exists to allow an officer to seize property on a speculative basis to see if it might turn out to be stolen. You got grounds to believe at that moment in time, or you don't. 

"That's my Ford Focus officer, mine had bald front tyres too!" Did it, cos if it ain't written down, it may as well never have happened.

BTW, I got A level English language. I don't need capital letters to emphasise words. I can read and comprehend without them.


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## JMAG (25 Aug 2015)

I do have sympathy for the police in this situation, but the premise that people can claim property as theirs without proper proof is not on particularly when you are talking about mass produced items.

In the same way, someone who has had a Rolex stolen can not go around stopping everyone wearing the same model Rolex and claim it as theirs without proof of ownership including serial number. Unless the police have sufficient grounds, they should not be removing property especially when it is being used for work/getting to work.

I accept that Police do have to think on their feet and they may have felt seizing the bike would diffuse a conflictive situation in this occasion, but not by trampling all over someone's right to ride their own bike down the road. If the bike had been stolen in the vicinty 5 minutes earlier by someone matching the OP's description or if the OP had previous for burglary or handling stolen property, then there would be more grounds for action.

Anyway, I would recommend www.immobilise.com to register anything of value with a serial number or even without serials as you can use identifying features.


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## DaveReading (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I assumed the bike had been previously reported stolen.



In this case, you assume correctly. From the very first post:

"The police also confirmed the guy who was accusing me had had a bike stolen five months before."

Given that, I don't understand why it couldn't have been sorted out there and then. Surely the copper could have got on the radio to HQ to ascertain the frame number of the stolen bike. Job done.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

HI Guys,
phone the police last night and its being dealt with by one officer who had sadly gone off duty until 3 pm today.
Been told to wait till then to present my evidence.

Hopefully i will have this sorted at sometime today.
Being there i am going with it was the easiest option for the police to take my bike to calm the other three people down. 
Still annoying though. Three hours late for work and a walk home.
Funny thing was it was my last day out on the bike also as i am changing jobs today.


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## Pale Rider (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> HI Guys,
> phone the police last night and its being dealt with by one officer who had sadly gone off duty until 3 pm today.
> Been told to wait till then to present my evidence.
> 
> ...



You are plotting your way through a potentially difficult situation very well.

I do think you were badly done to at the roadside, but the task now is to get the bike back with minimum fuss.

Best way to achieve that is do as you are doing, go with the flow, be polite and helpful.

No harm in having a little grumble, but don't do that until after the bike is safely back in your possession.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> You are plotting your way through a potentially difficult situation very well.
> 
> I do think you were badly done to at the roadside, but the task now is to get the bike back with minimum fuss.
> 
> ...


 
I assumed if i did complain about the false accusation, id just get a , "oh we are sorry"... response anyways.


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## Brandane (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> I assumed if i did complain about the false accusation, id just get a , "oh we are sorry"... response anyways.


What have they accused you of though? There is a difference between taking possession of your bike, and accusing you of stealing it. If they suspected you of theft then they would have detained you along with the bike.


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## Pale Rider (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> I assumed if i did complain about the false accusation, id just get a , "oh we are sorry"... response anyways.



As I mentioned upthread, a formal complaint would be taken seriously in that a senior officer would look into it.

You may or may not like his decision, but your complaint would be properly looked at.

Deciding whether to complain or not is a matter for you.

It depends on how strongly you feel about it, and if you are prepared to go to the time and trouble of form filling, making a statement/being interviewed by the officer appointed to deal with it.

On any view, it's not a serious case of misconduct so you could not be criticised if you simply want to put the matter behind you as soon as possible.


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## phil_hg_uk (25 Aug 2015)

As @JMAG says get it registered with www.immobilise.com then you have all the info plus photos and also chip it then all they need to do is scan it to prove it is yours.

I am afraid if that had been me I would have told the police officer to get stuffed there is no way he would get my bike with out placing me under arrest and charging me with theft first, which would be difficult unless they can prove I stole my own property. 

I find the whole thing totally bizarre and make sure they apologize when they realize they are wrong.


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## Brandane (25 Aug 2015)

Anyhoooo; back to the OP and his original question. "Advice needed - Bike seized".
Buy a tin of this......


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## Pale Rider (25 Aug 2015)

Brandane said:


> Anyhoooo; back to the OP and his original question. "Advice needed - Bike seized".
> Buy a tin of this......



And it's now got a smart straw.

I must buy a tin, even though I don't use the stuff.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Aug 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> As @JMAG says get it registered with www.immobilise.com then you have all the info plus photos and also chip it then all they need to do is scan it to prove it is yours.
> 
> I am afraid if that had been me I would have told the police officer to get stuffed there is no way he would get my bike with out placing me under arrest and charging me with theft first, which would be difficult unless they can prove I stole my own property.
> 
> I find the whole thing totally bizarre and make sure they apologize when they realize they are wrong.


That would have been my attitude too. I find this whole story a bit bizarre.


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## CopperCyclist (25 Aug 2015)

Out of interest, did you have


Smokin Joe said:


> That would have been my attitude too. I find this whole story a bit bizarre.



Actually the power of arrest for theft (on suspicion) requires less proof than the power of seizure (on belief)... 

Not saying I'd have seized the bike on the circumstances given - just pointing out a refusal and an "arrest me instead" might not work out to well!


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## huwsparky (25 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> On the evidence presented I wouldn't have seize it.


This. It shouldn't have been seized with zero evidence proving the bike to have been stolen.


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## phil_hg_uk (25 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> Out of interest, did you have
> 
> 
> Actually the power of arrest for theft (on suspicion) requires less proof than the power of seizure (on belief)...
> ...



I wouldnt have refused any information and would have been more than happy for an officer to take me home to get ID but there is no way someone is walking off with my property without giving me the chance to prove it is mine.


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## JMAG (25 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> Out of interest, did you have
> 
> 
> Actually the power of arrest for theft (on suspicion) requires less proof than the power of seizure (on belief)...
> ...



Interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to co-operate with police and provide my details etc, but I just don't think someone waving a picture and a receipt of the same model links the OP's bike to the one reported stolen. The police might just as well seize every silver Carrera in size 56 or whatever and make the person riding it prove they own it. I don't see a basis for any suspicion or belief.


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## Banjo (25 Aug 2015)

Look at it the other way though if you called the police after seeing your stolen bike then the police allowed the thief to ride off into the sunset .

No win situation for the plod IMHO.

Personally I would want compensation for my lost time in work and any transport costs incurred .


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## ianrauk (25 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> just pointing out a refusal and an "arrest me instead" might not work out to well!



In what way and for whom? 

As others have said. There would be no way I would let anyone, even the police take a bike off me when owned 100% by myself.
You would have to arrest me as I would kick up a mighty fuss. I will then supply proof that the bike is mine and the police would have to issue an almighty apology.


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## Gravity Aided (25 Aug 2015)

At least in the States, making false accusations tends to carry civil penalties, if you really wanted to take a chance on Chancery. The problem here is with the fellows who initially detained you and your cycle, made false accusations based on less than reasonable suspicions to the police, and claimed before civil authorities that you were a thief. Your problem is with the accusers, not the police.


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## DaveReading (25 Aug 2015)

Gravity Aided said:


> Your problem is with the accusers, not the police.



Yes, but the police telling the accusers that no action will be taken doesn't solve the OP's problem - he still has 3 blokes gunning for him claiming he's a bike thief.


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## Pale Rider (25 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> In what way and for whom?
> 
> As others have said. There would be no way I would let anyone, even the police take a bike off me when owned 100% by myself.
> You would have to arrest me as I would kick up a mighty fuss. I will then supply proof that the bike is mine and the police would have to issue an almighty apology.



A skilled copper could easily lead an angry cyclist into committing a public order offence.

Standing your ground is one thing, but it's all too easy to overstep the mark - particularly when the copper is waiting for you to do it.

You may have the necessary self control and be able to be forceful enough without getting into more trouble.

It's not something I would attempt.

Lack of experience is also a problem.

For the cyclist, it's probably the first time he has been in that situation with a police officer.

On the other hand, the officer may have dealt with hundreds of members of the public in various states of disgruntlement..

Thus the cyclist starts at a disadvantage.


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## ianrauk (25 Aug 2015)

Well stand my ground I would. I would simply not allow the cops to 1: take my bike 2: goad me into any offence.
They would just have to arrest me for not giving up my bike. Any fuzz worth his salt would see and understand why I would be so angry at the situation and ask me to bring the bike and proof to the cop shop or take me home to get proof that way.

But understand what you are saying. I have first hand experience of cops lying about stuff, they will do so if they think they could get away with it.


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## phil_hg_uk (25 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> Well stand my ground I would. I would simply not allow the cops to 1: take my bike 2: goad me into any offence.
> They would just have to arrest me for not giving up my bike. Any fuzz worth his salt would see and understand why I would be so angry at the situation and ask me to bring the bike and proof to the cop shop or take me home to get proof that way.
> 
> But understand what you are saying. I have first hand experience of cops lying about stuff, they will do so if they think they could get away with it.



Totally agree, to simply take away someones transport based on nothing is unacceptable. I mean if I came up to someone and said excuse me sir that is my car would they take that persons car away without establishing proof of ownership. As far as I can see they should have taken the op home and got him to prove his identity and taken it from there.

I can see the other side of the coin where I come across someone riding a bike that i believe was stolen from me, I wouldn't expect them to take my word for it I would expect them to get the person to prove who he was and then how he came to be in possession of the bike.


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

Re-reading the original posting, by the time the cops were involved, the bike was in the hands of the three assailants. So if the cops took no action, the OP would have had his bike "stolen"


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

Latest update. Can't get in touch with the officer looking after this. 
101 advised that they will call me and to basically wait.
Hopefully get a call soon so I can move this on.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Latest update. Can't get in touch with the officer looking after this.
> 101 advised that they will call me and to basically wait.
> Hopefully get a call soon so I can move this on.


I wouldn't wait. Contact the force that took the bike off you and if the BTP were involved at any stage contact them as well.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> I wouldn't wait. Contact the force that took the bike off you and if the BTP were involved at any stage contact them as well.


I've tried the local station number on Google but that just goes back to a central number where they say I need to speak to this officer.
Btp just says West mids police are dealing with that case. Can't seem to get anywhere with anyone.


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## Profpointy (25 Aug 2015)

did you get a receipt or such from the officer?


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## JMAG (25 Aug 2015)

Time to make a complaint methinks.


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## stephec (25 Aug 2015)

It's all too easy to say what you would do in the same situation, but as @classic33 says, "hindsight is a wonderful thing."

The OP would have been quite happy walking along when he's confronted by three blokes demanding his bike, it's not unlikely that he might have thought there was a bit of violence coming up.

How many can honestly say they would be able to think logically?

I was once the victim of an attempted forceful begging/mugging attempt.

Luckily the guy delayed, and talked bollocks for long enough to loose the element of surprise, for me to get my shoot together and square up to him.

Eventually he backed off without the need for fisticuffs, until he was about twenty yards away when he started to tell me how lucky I was and what he would do to me next time, all whilst walking in the opposite direction


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> I've tried the local station number on Google but that just goes back to a central number where they say I need to speak to this officer.
> Btp just says West mids police are dealing with that case. Can't seem to get anywhere with anyone.


Forget the freephone number, check for your nearest station and phone them. Ask for the name & number of the officer involved on the day.

The same for the local police. You need names & numbers. If asked why say force proceedure dictates that any Formal Complaint requires the details.

Your other option is to go down to the station where the bike is being held and ask to speak to the Duty Inspector, to make a formal complaint.

Gut feeling is that the bike is not in police hands.


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## summerdays (25 Aug 2015)

I the police have taken property off someone and then lost/misplaced it, and that individual can then prove they bought the same bike as they said at the time, what come back would an individual have?


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

What has happened is the bike has gone to the city central detaining station and the case has reverted to the station for which the original bike theft from five months ago was handled.
The officer I'm trying to get through to about is a responder so its really awkward to get him.
I am going to go down to the station where this officer is based tomorrow.
Take my evidence and hopefully get it sorted.
Only snag is tthough its in the ghetto . so I'll probably lose my car while I'm down there.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> What has happened is the bike has gone to the city central detaining station and the case has reverted to the station for which the original bike theft from five months ago was handled.
> The officer I'm trying to get through to about is a responder so its really awkward to get him.
> I am going to go down to the station where this officer is based tomorrow.
> Take my evidence and hopefully get it sorted.
> Only snag is tthough its in the ghetto . so I'll probably lose my car while I'm down there.


Forget that one. Get to where the bike is held. Chances are he'll not be at the station if you went to the station he works from anyway.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> I the police have taken property off someone and then lost/misplaced it, and that individual can then prove they bought the same bike as they said at the time, what come back would an individual have?


Proof it was taken in the first place. Normally in the form of the receipt given for the item.
After that proof is given, their insurance should eventually make good any loss.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Forget that one. Get to where the bike is held. Chances are he'll not be at the station if you went to the station he works from anyway.



Will they deal with me and my evidence though or try and push me to the case officer?


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## CopperCyclist (25 Aug 2015)

JMAG said:


> Interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to co-operate with police and provide my details etc, but I just don't think someone waving a picture and a receipt of the same model links the OP's bike to the one reported stolen. The police might just as well seize every silver Carrera in size 56 or whatever and make the person riding it prove they own it. I don't see a basis for any suspicion or belief.




And please remember, at least 2 current officers on her, including me agree with you - but we weren't there! 

I sympathise with the OP and have sent you a PM with some advice to try and speed things up.


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## CopperCyclist (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Will they deal with me and my evidence though or try and push me to the case officer?



They won't release it until the OIC for the property authorises it - even with your proof of purchase. They aren't involved in cases, they just store property.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Will they deal with me and my evidence though or try and push me to the case officer?


Central station is where I'd head, and where I have done in the past. Didn't even consider going to where the officer worked from.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Central station is where I'd head, and where I have done in the past. Didn't even consider going to where the officer worked from.


Ive emailed the officer direct with all the details, if i dont hear anything ill go straight to the detaining office tomorrow with my paperwork.


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## NorthernDave (25 Aug 2015)

The fact the officer dealing is a responder is not your problem.
If I were in this situation I would ask for the matter to be referred to the duty inspector, point out that you have co-operated fully, offered to provide compelling evidence that the bike is legitimately yours and have been deprived of your property/transport for an excessive amount of time when the matter could have been simply resolved in minutes once you'd produced the receipt.
If the duty inspector is not available, ask for them to call you back within the hour and advise that if no call is forthcoming you will be forced to instigate a formal complaint.
From what has been posted on here, you have behaved reasonably and co-operated throughout, even when you may not have had ground to do so. 
It seems like now may be the right time to politely assert your rights.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

NorthernDave said:


> The fact the officer dealing is a responder is not your problem.
> If I were in this situation I would ask for the matter to be referred to the duty inspector, point out that you have co-operated fully, offered to provide compelling evidence that the bike is legitimately yours and have been deprived of your property/transport for an excessive amount of time when the matter could have been simply resolved in minutes once you'd produced the receipt.
> If the duty inspector is not available, ask for them to call you back within the hour and advise that if no call is forthcoming you will be forced to instigate a formal complaint.
> From what has been posted on here, you have behaved reasonably and co-operated throughout, even when you may not have had ground to do so.
> It seems like now may be the right time to politely assert your rights.


Duty Inspector, the first rung on the Formal Complaint ladder.


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

Gez73 said:


> Plenty of bike pictures on phone too from time of purchase


Careful getting your phone out under these circumstances. Can you prove it's yours?


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## phil_hg_uk (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Careful getting your phone out under these circumstances. Can you prove it's yours?



And for gods sake don't look at your watch


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## summerdays (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Careful getting your phone out under these circumstances. Can you prove it's yours?


Well I'd know the number and how to unlock it for a start!


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> Well I'd know the number and how to unlock it for a start!



That only proves you've done a factory reset and put your own SIM in
Way to spoil a joke


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## summerdays (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> That only proves you've done a factory reset and put your own SIM in
> Way to spoil a joke


No... You suddenly made me think how I'd prove it was my phone.... I was in panic mode


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Careful getting your phone out under these circumstances. Can you prove it's yours?


Last two digits of the IMEI number known. Although I've never had anyone yet claim one of these is theirs.


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## simpso (25 Aug 2015)

Are those your shoes sir....
Walks home barefoot


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## phil_hg_uk (25 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Are those your shoes sir....
> Walks home barefoot



Excuse me sir about those feet ...............


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> No... You suddenly made me think how I'd prove it was my phone.... I was in panic mode




Anyway, this isn't one to worry about. The phone company knows and records the IMEI number of your phone, so they will know how long you have been using it with your current service. 



classic33 said:


> Last two digits of the IMEI number known.



That's no more secure than your bike serial number .... *#06# (enter that on the keypad of any phone, and it will display your phone's unique number. )


classic33 said:


>


So far, I'm sure. But if you have stored pictures of your bike on that phone, I want it!

@simpso glad to see you are still smiling. I'm seething on your behalf.


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> Excuse me sir about those feet ...............


Any loose stitching around the ankles?


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## jefmcg (25 Aug 2015)

"ello, ello, ello. That's a very nice pedicure. And where did you get the money for that? I've got you bang to rights, you scumbag."

(imagine me saying this in cod-cockney with an Australian accent, for the full effect)


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## classic33 (25 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Anyway, this isn't one to worry about. The phone company knows and records the IMEI number of your phone, so they will know how long you have been using it with your current service.


Easy to block it being sent.


> That's no more secure than your bike serial number .... *#06# (enter that on the keypad of any phone, and it will display your phone's unique number. )


Full IMEI code given on the inside, under the battery. Three handed removal job.


> So far, I'm sure. But if you have stored pictures of your bike on that phone, *I want it!*


Police have said something similar
You can buy a new one. Note the price though.


@simpso glad to see you are still smiling. I'm seething on your behalf.[/QUOTE]


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## Milkfloat (26 Aug 2015)

With all the run around the police are giving the OP, can he at least gets his costs back? I am not one for compensation culture, but all these unnecessary delays are taking the p1ss


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## Dogtrousers (26 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Anyway, this isn't one to worry about. The phone company knows and records the IMEI number of your phone, so they will know how long you have been using it with your current service.


They'll know how long you have been using it, but not necessarily whether you own it - unless they actually supplied it. The IMEI is specific to the handset, and you could buy or swap a phone to use with your SIM. 

Now, the IMSI and the Sim Serial Number, which are specific to the SIM - the operator can vouch for those having been issued to you - if it's a contract or registered phone. But if its an unregistered pay-as-you-go phone, then who's to say you haven't nicked it, SIM and all?

Sorry to be making light of what must be a very annoying and stressful situation. Maybe have a word with your local paper, they may find the ludicrousness of it worth a story.


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## simpso (26 Aug 2015)

Finally getting somewhere, meeting a sarge tomorrow in my local station to present proof of ownership. 
Even got an apology for the mistake.


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## Pale Rider (26 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Finally getting somewhere, meeting a sarge tomorrow in my local station to present proof of ownership.
> Even got an apology for the mistake.



Well done.

The police, as you have discovered, is a strange, closed organisation which can be difficult to deal with, even when it's trying not to be.


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## simpso (26 Aug 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Well done.
> 
> The police, as you have discovered, is a strange, closed organisation which can be difficult to deal with, even when it's trying not to be.


Yeah it's true.
Just confused how it's gone from, only this one officer can deal with it to suddenly oh I can help you from another.
Ah at least someone is helping though.


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## jefmcg (26 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Even got an apology for the mistake


You are too nice! I'd be all "I don't care if you are sorry, I want my bloody bike back." 

I don't believe that my approach would yield better results, I just want to throw your kindness into sharp relief.


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## simpso (26 Aug 2015)

Hmmm just had a call from the officer I've been trying to get through to who I emailed my proof to the other day. 
She says she is in no doubt the bike is mine based on the evidence but..... She has to give me accusers time to respond and that deadline is next weds !!!!! 

Amazing is all I can think, still going to talk to the sarge tomorrow. Surely it would make more sense to give me by bike back based on my evidence with them knowing my address and then come and get me if they find out I'm a master theif later on?


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## phil_hg_uk (26 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Hmmm just had a call from the officer I've been trying to get through to who I emailed my proof to the other day.
> She says she is in no doubt the bike is mine based on the evidence but..... She has to give me accusers time to respond and that deadline is next weds !!!!!
> 
> Amazing is all I can think, still going to talk to the sarge tomorrow. Surely it would make more sense to give me by bike back based on my evidence with them knowing my address and then come and get me if they find out I'm a master theif later on?


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## Gez73 (26 Aug 2015)

Bonkers absolutely bonkers. @simpso I would seriously consider the IPCC if that happened to me. No justifiable reason, unless a copper needs a bike for the bank holiday weekend! Gez


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## mjr (26 Aug 2015)

I'd lay it on thick about how you use the bike for transport... not lie but emphasise. I know they seize cars but surely not just because someone said it was theirs.


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## mjr (26 Aug 2015)

Spend a few days getting the bike back first, before launching a complaints process that I'd expect to be ineffective and destroy goodwill with the officers handling it.


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## NorthernDave (26 Aug 2015)

Speak to the sergeant and leave them in no doubt that failure to return your bike tomorrow will result in a formal complaint.
You've supplied evidence it's your bike, the officer dealing accepts it's your bike and they know who you are and where you live (and have no doubt already checked you out through the system). There can be no reasonable excuse not to return your bike now.
It might also be time to mention involving the IPCC.


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## simpso (26 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> I'd lay it on thick about how you use the bike for transport... not lie but emphasise. I know they seize cars but surely not just because someone said it was theirs.


I did have to drive in to work yesterday and I'm assuming will have to drive to the city centre to collect it, incurring parking charges for the pleasure too.
Officer confused me too, one second it was you have to wait for the other parties to come back with any proof the bike may be there's. Then something about she's working nights so there's no one to release my bike.
Then I advise about my meeting with a sarge and she is saying oh they may be able to speed the process up for you then...


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## Milkfloat (26 Aug 2015)

Bill them for costs, they are clearly taking the piss.


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## TreeHuggery (26 Aug 2015)

the fact that she's working nights is her problem not yours - if she broke her leg while on duty would she expect all of "her" cases to wait until she returned ? Think youi've been more than patient and think its time you changed from "good cop" to "bad cop". Also worth pointing out that if the other party don't get back to her, they are actually wasting police time. Tbh I always tend to look on the police website at their mission statement and point out where their actions and the mission statement start to diverge. Good luck and really hope that you get it back tomorrow


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## classic33 (26 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Hmmm just had a call from the officer I've been trying to get through to who I emailed my proof to the other day.
> She says she is in no doubt the bike is mine based on the evidence but..... She has to give me accusers time to respond and that deadline is next weds !!!!!
> 
> Amazing is all I can think, still going to talk to the sarge tomorrow. Surely it would make more sense to give me by bike back based on my evidence with them knowing my address and then come and get me if they find out I'm a master theif later on?


Forget the sarge, ask to speak to the Duty Inspector upon arrival. 
Said it earlier, but I think the bike has gone.


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## Thomk (26 Aug 2015)

This is starting to sound like a windup!


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## classic33 (26 Aug 2015)

From the West Midlands police site https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/contact-us/complaints-and-compliments/index.aspx
*Complaints and compliments*
If you think a police officer or member of police staff has behaved incorrectly or unfairly, you have the right to make a complaint.

Policing is often carried out under difficult conditions. There may be occasions when you think we haven't delivered the service you expect. Also, there are occasions, as in any other business, when we get things wrong.

*Our quality of service commitment*
We're committed to providing a level of service that responds professionally and appropriately to your particular needs.

You can give us feedback on our service, good or bad, at Rate your local police

*Providing a professional and high quality service*
We are committed to responding to your needs by providing you with appropriate help and advice. We will take all your concerns seriously and explain what will be done to address them, including whether or not any further action will be taken and why.

*We will:*

Always treat you politely and fairly, with dignity and respect.
Listen and take your concerns seriously and explain what we are doing to address them, including whether or not we are taking action, and why.


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## xzenonuk (27 Aug 2015)

im watching this thread a lot and getting worked up over it, glad to see your making some progress although you should of never had it taken


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## CopperCyclist (27 Aug 2015)

NorthernDave said:


> Speak to the sergeant and leave them in no doubt that failure to return your bike tomorrow will result in a formal complaint.
> You've supplied evidence it's your bike, the officer dealing accepts it's your bike and they know who you are and where you live (and have no doubt already checked you out through the system). There can be no reasonable excuse not to return your bike now.
> It might also be time to mention involving the IPCC.



I agree with every part of this except the IPCC bit. They genuinely wouldn't be interested due to the level of the issue and would send it back to a local complaint, so I'd replace that with classic's suggestion of a complaint to the inspector. 

"I have no doubt it's yours but I need to give the other party time to respond" is just frankly, ridiculous. 

I'm hoping your meeting with the sergeant goes well and resolves it. 

As for "on nights so can't release it" - not true. They couldn't access the property office themselves, that's true - but they could email the office authorizing release, and you could then make direct contact with the property office yourself and arrange to pick it up - I've done that many times. 

It's getting silly now, and unlike most of the things on here when people moan about the police, this one is genuinely starting to get embarrassing...


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## Pale Rider (27 Aug 2015)

Perhaps we need a PACE clock for detained bicycles like the one for detained suspects.


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## hobbitonabike (27 Aug 2015)

Waiting with bated breath to see how this turns out! The whole thing seems really bizarre but I think this is just the nature of handling the public now...kit gloves and trying not to upset anyone. Farcical.


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## classic33 (27 Aug 2015)

EbonyWillow said:


> Waiting with bated breath to see how this turns out! The whole thing seems really bizarre but I think this is just the nature of handling the public now...kit gloves and trying not to upset anyone. Farcical.


Kid gloves and not upsetting anyone might be right in describing they way they're dealing with it. Maybe its how they actually perceive bicycles, not a genuine means of transport, unlike a car. If true then they'd do well to rethink that part.
Alternative transport has had to be found by one person. No receipt for property seized appears to have been given, which would have had to include the details of the officer involved. Basic paperwork required to keep track of property & officers never issued. 
The owner was asked to provide proof of ownership, now its time for the police, force & individuals to start doing the same. Say who is dealing with the issue and get that person or persons to deal with it.


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## simpso (27 Aug 2015)

Had my meeting with the sarge.
He was very sorry and said bike should never have been seized. The mess up seems to be with the way btp handled the situation.
So guys never get accused of stealing ur own bike in a train station.

Good news is I should be having my bike delivered back to me either tonight or tomorrow. Woop


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## NorthernDave (27 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> I agree with every part of this except the IPCC bit. They genuinely wouldn't be interested due to the level of the issue and would send it back to a local complaint, so I'd replace that with classic's suggestion of a complaint to the inspector.



To be honest the IPCC bit was just a tongue in cheek suggestion in case the OP got nowhere with the sergeant - hopefully by now a bit of common sense has been applied and the bike is on it's way back to the rightful owner.

Edit to say that @simpso posted while I was typing - good news at last!


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## phil_hg_uk (27 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Had my meeting with the sarge.
> He was very sorry and said bike should never have been seized. The mess up seems to be with the way btp handled the situation.
> So guys never get accused of stealing ur own bike in a train station.
> 
> Good news is I should be having my bike delivered back to me either tonight or tomorrow. Woop



Good should be with a written apology for the way they passed you around as well.


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## classic33 (27 Aug 2015)

And the BTP as well.


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## steveindenmark (27 Aug 2015)

I can see why it was siezed to begin with. Two parties claiming its theirs. Let the police keep it until one of the parties proves it theirs.

After that you have got involved in a typical police "Nothing to do with me" scenario. But it also sounds you are dealing with BTP and your local force. Thats like Oil and water.

I hope you get it sorted.


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## jefmcg (27 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> I can see why it was siezed to begin with. Two parties claiming its theirs. Let the police keep it until one of the parties proves it theirs.


You're really not getting this. 

One person has a bike from the most popular shop in the UK. 
Other person says "I used to have a bike just like that" (him, and 10,000 other people). 
BTP decide to apply the wisdom of Solomon to the situation, rather than the wisdom of William of Occam. 
Legitimate owner is deprived of their bike for nearly a week.


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## steveindenmark (27 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> You're really not getting this.
> 
> One person has a bike from the most popular shop in the UK.
> Other person says "I used to have a bike just like that" (him, and 10,000 other people).
> ...




Oh Im getting it. Maybe you should read the ops first post. Put the shoe on the other foot. If the op had stolen the bike and the guy who stopped him was the owner of the bike and the police let the op ride off. Is that better?


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## Pale Rider (27 Aug 2015)

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs, two serving coppers on here reckon the seizure was a disproportionate reaction.

On any view, it does appear the police over stepped the mark.


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## jefmcg (27 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Oh Im getting it. Maybe you should read the ops first post. Put the shoe on the other foot. If the op had stolen the bike and the guy who stopped him was the owner of the bike and the police let the op ride off. Is that better?


I once had $A20 stolen from my wallet at work. Should I have been able to take a twenty from someone else's wallet, because it looks like mine?

If you buy a mass market bike, don't record the serial number and have it stolen, then you aren't getting it back. You are going to have to live with that. You can't claim another person's bike half a year later, because it looks like yours.

Yeah, it's bad. But there's no way of knowing it's yours without the serial number.


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> It's getting silly now, and unlike most of the things on here when people moan about the police, this one is genuinely starting to get embarrassing...


Aye, but it wasn'ae you fault


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## classic33 (27 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Oh Im getting it. Maybe you should read the ops first post. Put the shoe on the other foot. If the op had stolen the bike and the guy who stopped him was the owner of the bike and the police let the op ride off. Is that better?


Its more to do with the runaround that has been given to the OP. And speaking only for myself on this part, the removal of the persons transport. Would a car have been seized in the same way? Somehow I doubt it.

The perception of the bike as a genuine means of transport, not just a leisure item, needs to be taken seriously.


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## steveindenmark (27 Aug 2015)

Bearing in mind it was BTP


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## classic33 (27 Aug 2015)

steveindenmark said:


> Bearing in mind it was BTP


That got the local police involved


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## xzenonuk (28 Aug 2015)

glad he is getting his bike back


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## Buck (28 Aug 2015)

@simpso - I've read this from the start and you have done well to keep so calm and rational in what reads as a highly frustrating experience. 

Fingers crossed you get the bike back tomorrow and a strong apology along with it.


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## Lonestar (28 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> As most have said - don't worry about the serial number. Go in with your proof of purchase that you do have and that should be enough.
> 
> As for commenting on the decision made to seize your bike - as I want there I won't! However what I would like people to consider is the fact that clearly the police thought they were doing the right thing - there is no other possible reason they would have seized the bike!




My bike was coded by the cops,but what does that prove as I haven't got the receipt although I know where I bought it from new.So what should I do,take frame numbers? What does this prove if someone decided to come up with the same allegations?

Even if I took pictures and thumb prints and posted it in the new bike thread?


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## classic33 (28 Aug 2015)

Lonestar said:


> *My bike was coded by the cops,but what does that prove* as I haven't got the receipt although I know where I bought it from new.So what should I do,take frame numbers? What does this prove if someone decided to come up with the same allegations?
> 
> Even if I took pictures and thumb prints and posted it in the new bike thread?


They should be keeping a record of the frame number & the number they put in place, as well as when it was done


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## Lonestar (28 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> They should be keeping a record of the frame number & the number they put in place, as well as when it was done



....and for this very example in this thread it seems like a good idea for the cops to code bikes.


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## CopperCyclist (28 Aug 2015)

Lonestar said:


> My bike was coded by the cops,but what does that prove as I haven't got the receipt although I know where I bought it from new.So what should I do,take frame numbers? What does this prove if someone decided to come up with the same allegations?
> 
> Even if I took pictures and thumb prints and posted it in the new bike thread?



Yep, if you are that worried I would suggest a simple solution is to email yourself the frame numbers. You will have a time stamped email showing the frames of your bikes. 

You could also then upload them to one of the websites mentioned in this thread on case they do get stolen.

OP's experience should not be taken as "the norm" though!


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## mjr (28 Aug 2015)

CopperCyclist said:


> Yep, if you are that worried I would suggest a simple solution is to email yourself the frame numbers. You will have a time stamped email showing the frames of your bikes.


You can stamp whatever time you like onto an email so that shouldn't prove anything over simply keeping a note of them.


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Aug 2015)

Is there any word on whether the other party in this kept insisting it was their bike?

A clue to ownership would have been Simpso not riding off initially and then keeping on at the Police to get his bike back. Hardly the actions of a thief. The others stood there, after seemingly chancing on 'their' bike at random, and yet having the receipt and a picture of something stolen 6 months ago, just seems implausible.

Will the Police be checking to see if these chancers have tried this before?


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## jonny jeez (28 Aug 2015)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Will the Police be checking to see if these chancers have tried this before?[/QUOTE



No

Judging from their actions so far I doubt they will even be checking that they have
wiped their own arses each day.

#Embarrassment to the force


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## simpso (28 Aug 2015)

Noooo the saga continues.
Phoned the station for an update. The sarge I spoke to is now off for the weekendd.
It's all down as the bike should be returned to me but a new officer (who this hasbeen passed on to) has not signed whatever form yet to release. 
He isn't on unti four tonight .
Hmphh


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## JMAG (28 Aug 2015)

Ask for the duty inspector @simpso. You have been too accommodating thus far IMO. Your accusers have not proven the bike is theirs and you should not be made to constantly waste your time waiting for officers to come back from days off, lunch or toilet breaks!


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## jefmcg (28 Aug 2015)

I wonder if they have mislaid the bike? If it's not where it should be in the impound lot, they may be making these pathetic excuses in the hope it turns up somewhere else.

Yes, I'm very distrustful.

*Edit*: I'd be asking for the price of a new replacement (current equivalent model from Halfords) a this point. Then they can do whatever they want with the other bike.


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## summerdays (28 Aug 2015)

Plus you are without your transport! It shouldn't be right to withhold it for so long when they now believe you.


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Noooo the saga continues.
> Phoned the station for an update. The sarge I spoke to is now off for the weekendd.
> It's all down as the bike should be returned to me but a new officer (who this hasbeen passed on to) has not signed whatever form yet to release.
> He isn't on unti four tonight .
> Hmphh



Your patience and self control does you credit. I'm placid, but I reckon I would probably have been threatened with arrest by now, because I would have been highlighting the ridiculous situation very strongly.


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## raleighnut (28 Aug 2015)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Your patience and self control does you credit. I'm placid, but I reckon I would probably have been threatened with arrest by now, because I would have been highlighting the ridiculous situation very strongly.


Me too, mind I'm not that 'good' with 'officers of the law' (tend to swear a bit)


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## Pale Rider (28 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I wonder if they have mislaid the bike? If it's not where it should be in the impound lot, they may be making these pathetic excuses in the hope it turns up somewhere else.
> 
> Yes, I'm very distrustful.
> 
> *Edit*: I'd be asking for the price of a new replacement (current equivalent model from Halfords) a this point. Then they can do whatever they want with the other bike.



I'm starting to wonder if the OP is being deliberately stalled for some reason.

Perhaps the coppers have lost the bike, two forces involved, and I've known things to go missing from police property stores.

Alternatively, the three amigos may be making what the coppers see as a good case for the bike being theirs.

But if that were the case, I'd expect the investigating officer to want to see the OP's proof of ownership sooner rather than later.


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## TreeHuggery (28 Aug 2015)

As with everyone above, I think you've stayed amazingly calm, and you really do need to take it up a level - it's now been the equivalent of a working week...and you're getting passed from pillar to post with everyone telling you different things, and it changing at least on a daily basis if not more. 
Not sure if you are more stressed, p'eed off than you're letting on, but we're all stressed for you.. Really do think you ought to take the advice of others on here and make a complaint..
Sincerely hope it gets sorted out for you today


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## classic33 (28 Aug 2015)

Said it earlier, I've a feeling the bike is no longer in police hands.

I'd now be doing as suggested by @jefmcg, getting a quote for replacement and handing that in to the Duty Inspector.

Make a Formal Complaint, can be done at any station. But it has to be the Duty Inspector that takes that complaint. Standard proceedure, and has to be followed by the person making the complaint. Keep a record of all you speak to once you say you are making a Formal Complaint. Times and locations if they're not willing to identify themselves.

What has been the response from the BTP on this?


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## Gravity Aided (28 Aug 2015)

Is there not some sort of arrangement like chain of custody? I would like to think there would be a receipt on file for every place this bicycle has been.


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## classic33 (28 Aug 2015)

The only other people that have yet to be brought into this, and they have a bit more clout than a mere passenger, is the company that run the station where this happened. Again standard proceedure is to keep all recordings where the BTP have been involved. Until notified they are no longer required.


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## classic33 (28 Aug 2015)

Gravity Aided said:


> Is there not some sort of arrangement like chain of custody? I would like to think there would be a receipt on file for every place this bicycle has been.


It should have been given when the bike was seized. That doesn't appear to have happened.


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## Lonestar (28 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> Plus you are without your transport! It shouldn't be right to withhold it for so long when they now believe you.



This is where n+1 comes into play.


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## simpso (28 Aug 2015)

Bike has been authorised to be released to me, but the place where they lock things up (located in the city centre) is now closed till tuesday.
Terrible thing is I literraly just stopped working in the city centre and start a new job on Tues in the opposite direction. :'(


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## phil_hg_uk (28 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Bike has been authorised to be released to me, but the place where they lock things up (located in the city centre) is now closed till tuesday.
> Terrible thing is I literraly just stopped working in the city centre and start a new job on Tues in the opposite direction. :'(



WTF - have you looked around for hidden cameras, this has to be a wind up. I cant believe even the police can be this inept


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## Gez73 (28 Aug 2015)

I hope the bike is still a good fit for you when you get it back. ☺Hope it works out though. Gez


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## TreeHuggery (28 Aug 2015)

so you're going to be without it for a week on the grounds that it just looked like someone elses ...... gutted for you.....and total respect at your restraint......really couldn't make it up......


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## jefmcg (28 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Bike has been authorised to be released to me, but the place where they lock things up (located in the city centre) is now closed till tuesday.
> Terrible thing is I literraly just stopped working in the city centre and start a new job on Tues in the opposite direction. :'(



I want to get up right now and go to the window, open it and stick your head out and yell "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more"


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXqs02lNQMM


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## simpso (28 Aug 2015)

My problem is i dont know when im going to be able to go up there an get it.
Ive worked in the centre for 12 years, have been working part time - no fridays - for two years. And literally today is my last day of that. Next week im working somewhere completly different full time.
The detention place is open mon to fri 8 - 4
Really cant say on my first week in a new job oh yeah im going to be in late!


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## Arjimlad (28 Aug 2015)

This whole thing seems utterly surreal, first the three goons, then the inept BTP and Police, then the failure to release the bike. Is this what we pay taxes for ? Is this the reason why GMP have written to a cyclist apologising for not investigating a collision due to lack of resources ?


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## Arjimlad (28 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> My problem is i dont know when im going to be able to go up there an get it.
> Ive worked in the centre for 12 years, have been working part time - no fridays - for two years. And literally today is my last day of that. Next week im working somewhere completly different full time.
> The detention place is open mon to fri 8 - 4
> Really cant say on my first week in a new job oh yeah im going to be in late!



They can jolly well deliver it to you I would hope !


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## si_c (28 Aug 2015)

Arjimlad said:


> They can jolly well deliver it to you I would hope !



I'd insist that they deliver it, or arrange a time for you to collect it from the station most convenient to you.


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## simpso (28 Aug 2015)

si_c said:


> I'd insist that they deliver it, or arrange a time for you to collect it from the station most convenient to you.


Its the joy of going through all the different people again to get them to do that. 
Kinda draining


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## jefmcg (28 Aug 2015)

Arjimlad said:


> This whole thing seems utterly surreal, first the three goons, then the inept BTP and Police, then the failure to release the bike.



This is what the term "Kafkaesque" was coined for.


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## Arjimlad (28 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> This is what the term "Kafkaesque" was coined for.



That is just the word I was looking for.


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## classic33 (28 Aug 2015)

phil_hg_uk said:


> WTF - have you looked around for hidden cameras, this has to be a wind up. I cant believe even the police can be this inept


I can!


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## ClichéGuevara (28 Aug 2015)

I simply don't believe the Police have a secure store that nobody at all has a key for until Tuesday. 

That aside, what sort of Keystone Script could have occurred that put the bike in there given its background?

The sad thing is, people can believe this sort of ineptitude exists amongst those tasked to serve us, and nobody's doubting the OP's genuine.


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## Lonestar (29 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> My problem is i dont know when im going to be able to go up there an get it.
> Ive worked in the centre for 12 years, have been working part time - no fridays - for two years. And literally today is my last day of that. Next week im working somewhere completly different full time.
> The detention place is open mon to fri 8 - 4
> Really cant say on my first week in a new job oh yeah im going to be in late!



I have the problem picking up my parcels from the Royal Mail.Their place only stays open to 1pm so I rarely finish early enough to manage to pick up my parcels on early turn.Luckily I generally wangle it in the end,even if it takes seven days.


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## classic33 (29 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> My problem is i dont know when im going to be able to go up there an get it.
> Ive worked in the centre for 12 years, have been working part time - no fridays - for two years. And literally today is my last day of that. Next week im working somewhere completly different full time.
> The detention place is open mon to fri 8 - 4
> Really cant say on my first week in a new job oh yeah im going to be in late!


Be honest with them. Inform them that you have to collect, in a very narrow time window, property that the police have. 
If further explanation is required, give a fuller explanation. You should be able to get an extended lunch hour, during which you'll be able to collect it. Even going sofar as to inform the police that you'll be collecting it between X hours on a particular date. Given what's happened sofar over this, I doubt they'd want it to get any worse.


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## Thomk (29 Aug 2015)

ClichéGuevara said:


> I simply don't believe the Police have a secure store that nobody at all has a key for until Tuesday.
> 
> That aside, what sort of Keystone Script could have occurred that put the bike in there given its background?
> 
> The sad thing is, people can believe this sort of ineptitude exists amongst those tasked to serve us, and nobody's doubting the OP's genuine.


Quite a few have expressed doubts. I think the OP could be winding you all up.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Aug 2015)

Thomk said:


> Quite a few have expressed doubts. I think the OP could be winding you all up.


Let's be blunt, it sounds like bollocks.


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## jefmcg (29 Aug 2015)

I asked myself, "but why?"

Then I remembered the banner ad in his signature.

Replaced by a simple URL now.


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## mjr (29 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I asked myself, "but why?"
> 
> Then I remembered the banner ad in his signature.
> 
> Replaced by a simple URL now.


Sigs aren't shown to mobiles. Is it a really bad ad? Anyone admit to clicking?


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## Lonestar (29 Aug 2015)

simpso said:


> Bike has been authorised to be released to me, but the place where they lock things up (located in the city centre) is now closed till tuesday.
> Terrible thing is I literraly just stopped working in the city centre and start a new job on Tues in the opposite direction. :'(



Unfortunately mate life isn't always easy and straightforward and you just have to cope the best you can.



Thomk said:


> Quite a few have expressed doubts. I think the OP could be winding you all up.



You think he's one of those car people winding us up? He hasn't said anything about the hilarious one liner "road tax" yet.

Sorry im in a silly mood.


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## winjim (29 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Sigs aren't shown to mobiles. Is it a really bad ad? Anyone admit to clicking?


Rotate your phone to landscape.


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## Spinney (29 Aug 2015)

The banner ad is no longer there - he removed it promptly when reminded of the rules about signatures.


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## classic33 (29 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Sigs aren't shown to mobiles. Is it a really bad ad? Anyone admit to clicking?


The same as the site in the signature.


Smokin Joe said:


> Let's be blunt, it sounds like bollocks.


The runaround from the police is believable. I've been there, its why the formal complaint proceedure was suggested. Which he ignored.

When doubts were raised, I said I didn't think the bike was in police hands.


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## classic33 (29 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Rotate your phone to landscape.


Still no sig!


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## winjim (29 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Still no sig!


Really? There's loads more fields visible on my phone when I switch from portrait to landscape.


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## classic33 (29 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> Really? There's loads more fields visible on my phone when I switch from portrait to landscape.


Really, a bit more spread out but nowt else.


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## winjim (29 Aug 2015)

classic33 said:


> Really, a bit more spread out but nowt else.












OK, loads might be pushing it, but I get sig, post # and more user info if there is any.


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## andyfraser (29 Aug 2015)

Whether you see a sig or not depends on the phone it seems. I don't get sigs in landscape on my iPhone 4S but I do on my Nexus 6.


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## jefmcg (30 Aug 2015)

If you want to see a sig from a phone, click on their name -> _Profile Page -> Information.
_
Signature is there. But for the record, this was the banner.






@Shaun is it ok for me to share this?


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## DCLane (1 Sep 2015)

@simpso Any update on progress?


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## simpso (1 Sep 2015)

HI guys. After one week and a day. i finally got my bike back Horah 





Thank you for all your support and advice.
I decided not to complain in the end as the main issue would have been down to the BTP incorrectly seizing the bike and i didnt have their names. After all the running around i had to do to get this back i couldnt be bothered with more form filling and phone calls to find out who they were.
The complaints process of the website seems to want you to direct your complaint at a particular officer or station and as several were involved it would have just been a mess. 
Not even confident i would have got anything out of it for my effort.
The main thing is my bikes back with me. 
Im now going to cover it in Urine and blood samples to prove it is mine for the future.

One more thing, where about will i find the serial on this so i can jot it down.

Thanks again.


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## Gez73 (1 Sep 2015)

Probably under the frame beneath the crank. Take a photo too. Glad it got sorted.


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## TreeHuggery (1 Sep 2015)

glad you've got it back.
So what happened, were you able to take time away from new job? or did they deliver it to you?


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## simpso (1 Sep 2015)

TreeHuggery said:


> glad you've got it back.
> So what happened, were you able to take time away from new job? or did they deliver it to you?


Being the first day, I didn't have to be in till ten, so had a small window to be able to get the bike and get over to my new job without being late. Luckily got the bike and got to my job with 20 mins to spare.


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## kiriyama (1 Sep 2015)

simpso said:


>



THATS MY BIKE !@#$#!!!@#!!!!


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## simpso (1 Sep 2015)

kiriyama said:


> THATS MY BIKE !@#$#!!!@#!!!!


The police just came and took it away again... Your forum post was enough to cast doubt.


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## NorthernDave (1 Sep 2015)

kiriyama said:


> THATS MY BIKE !@#$#!!!@#!!!!



You beat me to it - I was going to say that!


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## alecstilleyedye (1 Sep 2015)

that's my bike and so's my wife's…


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## Gravity Aided (2 Sep 2015)

Now, I could see it, if I was riding a B'Twin Triban down the street here in the States, and my neighbor's friend told the police it was his bike, and the police being inquisitive and possibly seizing the bike, as it is the only B'Twin Triban around here. (He bought it in Britain, and shipped it back to the US) , But if these fellows who accused you of having a stolen bike that is theirs because it is a yellow and black Carrera(TDF?), then the police are in for a busy time of it...


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## raleighnut (2 Sep 2015)

simpso said:


> HI guys. After one week and a day. i finally got my bike back Horah
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Get the Police to mark it with your postcode (usually free) you may well come across the same scrotes again.


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## Keith Oates (2 Sep 2015)

A similar thing happened to me about 5 or 6 years ago when I was in the UK. Two guys came up to me and one said he thought I was riding his stolen bike, and it was also one I had bought from new. I told him this and he said he didn't believe me and that made me angry so after some not very pleasant verbal's they both went away and I also carried on cycling. I must admit I was not happy for a while afterwards.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Arjimlad (2 Sep 2015)

I sold a bike like that to my mate a few years ago. I shall check he still has it and it hasn't been nicked. !

Glad you have it back.


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## jefmcg (2 Sep 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Get the Police to mark it with your postcode (usually free) you may well come across the same scrotes again.


Police don't do postcode marking anymore, or at least not the Met. They mark it with a code, and register it. I've been registered by the met on https://www.immobilise.com and https://www.bikeregister.com

You can register them yourself on those websites, which I'd advise you to do. As the police use them, I'd assume they would count very highly as proof of ownership. They could also - possibly - get a bike returned to you that you hadn't reported stolen.

Edit: GMP use and recommend immobilise.com http://www.gmp.police.uk/live/nhoodv3.nsf/section.html?readform&s=B599E810136508C280257B8100444515



> *Registering your bike*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Edit 2: I was marked by the Met (ok, just my bike was marked) early in 2011. I got an email from immobilise.com. 6 months later I got a second email, this time from bikeregister, from the same marking event. Subsequent markings by Met or possibly City of London have been with bikeregister.


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## classic33 (2 Sep 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Police don't do postcode marking anymore, or at least not the Met. They mark it with a code, and register it. I've been registered by the met on https://www.immobilise.com and https://www.bikeregister.com
> 
> You can register them yourself on those websites, which I'd advise you to do. As the police use them, I'd assume they would count very highly as proof of ownership. They could also - possibly - get a bike returned to you that you hadn't reported stolen.
> 
> Edit: GMP use and recommend immobilise.com http://www.gmp.police.uk/live/nhoodv3.nsf/section.html?readform&s=B599E810136508C280257B8100444515


West Yorkshire Police urge you to do the same, and back the same scheme. Unfortunatly they don't have anyone to check bikes as they come in.


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