# NW Passage



## Fiona N (5 Jan 2011)

Is anyone else signed up for the NW Passage Audax on 19th Feb? I know it starts in ColinJ's stamping ground. 

I'm only down for the mini-version although I think I may try ride the whole thing later in the year as 'training'. Starting and finishing in Kirby Lonsdale - which is a fairly stiff ride from home - would turn it into a 150 miler of a day - a bit much for February conditions. 

But I've booked up a whole series of audaxes through to June in an attempt to commit myself to P-B-P qualifying, and the mini-NW passage is formally "the start" (although not a qualifier in itself).


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## ColinJ (5 Jan 2011)

I did the full NWP in 2007, but in typical ColinJ fashion, I decided to heavily modify the route because I didn't want to spend the whole day on busy A-roads. 

Instead of taking the A682 and A65 from Gisburn to Settle, I rode minor roads via Wigglesworth and Rathmel. Then from Settle to Kirkby Lonsdale, I avoided most of the A65 again, by riding lanes through Keasden, High Bentham, and Burton-in-Lonsdale. I finally joined the A65 near Ireby and proceeded to Kirkby Lonsdale, a.k.a. Motorcycle Central! I thought the A683 to Caton was okay, but then I went cross-country again - Quernmore, Five Lane Ends, Street and Scorton. After that, a slightly modified route to Inglewhite and then I stuck to the official route back to Rochdale (except for a swift detour to avoid the HUGE roundabout at Whitebirk).

I decided that it was a bit much for my level of fitness at that time of year because I ended up riding in the dark for a few hours in the freezing cold. So, in 2008 and 2009 I rode an extended (and modified!) version of the mini-NWP route. I rode to Rochdale and back from Hebden Bridge as well as tackling the mini-NWP itself, taking the distance up to 104 miles. It meant that I got home at sunset, rather than after hours in the dark.

I stuck to the official route as far as Whalley, but chose to take a scenic route over the hill to New Inns on the way to the A6119 on the outskirts of Blackburn.

I wimped out in 2010 due to the freezing conditions but Svendo did it, and it was so cold that the water froze in his bottles! 

I might tackle the extended mini-NWP again this year, but I'll wait until nearer the time to decide. I'd want clear, mild conditions if I was going to ride.


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## Fiona N (5 Jan 2011)

ColinJ said:


> ...
> 
> I wimped out in 2010 due to the freezing conditions but Svendo did it, and it was so cold that the water froze in his bottles!
> 
> ...


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## Ajay (6 Jan 2011)

Ooopps
just started a new topic re this ride without seeing you'd already done it, silly me!
I agree with ColinJ, the route does stick to busy roads when quieter alternatives are close by, so I may well modify the route (conditions allowing).
I'm new to Audax, is this ok, providing I make the check points and stay within the time limits?


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## ColinJ (6 Jan 2011)

Ajay said:


> I agree with ColinJ, the route does stick to busy roads when quieter alternatives are close by, so I may well modify the route (conditions allowing).


Here's my alternative NWP route on Bikely. It takes in all the checkpoints and is over distance at 212 km.



Ajay said:


> I'm new to Audax, is this ok, providing I make the check points and stay within the time limits?



It's fine. The organiser has to put in enough checkpoints to make sure you do the full distance. If there is a big hill that they want you to go over or some other 'feature' like that, then they would be a checkpoint at the summit.

With my longer and slower route, I was the about last rider to the checkpoint at Kirkby Lonsdale and the controllers there were starting to get worried about me because I'd lost so much time on everyone else. When I told them what I was doing, they were gobsmacked and one of them said "What's up lad - ain't it 'ard enough for yer?"


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## mcshroom (7 Jan 2011)

I'm entering the mini one (if I get round to sending the form off




). It will be my first audax so I'm looking forward to it, but I would like to get rid of the ice before then.


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## ColinJ (7 Jan 2011)

mcshroom said:


> I'm entering the mini one (if I get round to sending the form off
> 
> 
> 
> ). It will be my first audax so I'm looking forward to it, but I would like to get rid of the ice before then.


I'm waiting until nearer the time to check the weather forecast. I entered last year but didn't end up riding.


If the weather is okay, there could be quite a few CC riders doing the min-NWP so perhaps some of us could do what we did in previous years and ride round together?


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## Crimmey (7 Jan 2011)

This is one of the few 'social' rides I did last year and as Colin said it was terribly cold. I remember having to keep my eyes open otherwise they froze shut around Bolton by Bowland. Myself and another guy got lost near the cement works around Clitheroe but found a great, cheap truck stop at an industrial park with miles of boiling hot radiators! Also got lost in Blackburn but by some miracle we met some other NWP'ers at a crossroads on opposite sides. One I'll never forget. 

Ill probably enter on day as I only live a short ride away. I'm getting soft too, this cold weather is keeping me indoors.


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## Ian H (7 Jan 2011)

I last rode this about 15 years ago. I do remember the main roads, though not any problems with traffic - perhaps that's changed these days.


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## Ajay (7 Jan 2011)

::


ColinJ said:


> I'm waiting until nearer the time to check the weather forecast. I entered last year but didn't end up riding.
> 
> 
> If the weather is okay, there could be quite a few CC riders doing the min-NWP so perhaps some of us could do what we did in previous years and ride round together?


I'd be up for that!


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## Svendo (7 Jan 2011)

Hi, I'll probably enter on the day and I'll decide which route depending how fit I feel. The 'mini' route although not long by Audax standards is still a fair old way at that time of year.
So far not been out at all since mid december other than the 3 miles to work. I have managed to do an hour most days on the turbo since new year though.


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## mcshroom (8 Jan 2011)

At the speed I'm trundling round at atm, I'm not sure anyone would want to ride in a group with me but it may be a plan


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## mcshroom (29 Jan 2011)

Right my entry is now in the post, so I'm in for the 'Mini' (only Audax could call 75 miles mini



). 

Anyone else made their minds up about this one yet.


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## ColinJ (29 Jan 2011)

I'm still aiming to do it, but given my lack of winter miles, if I do I'll probably catch the train to and from Rochdale for once rather than adding 29 miles to the 75 of the event itself.


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## Garz (30 Jan 2011)

Sounds interesting except the cold weather tales.


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

I'm still waiting until the last minute to decide. I'll let you know by Friday evening in case anybody fancies coming along with me at a nice easy pace (and probably doing a nice little climb out of Whalley rather than a couple of A-roads).

Bromptonfb has asked what the speed rules are for the full length NWP ...

Shaun - you can always look up details of UK audax events here. All audax events have minimum and maximum speed limits. What those are depends on what type of event it is

The full length NWP is run as a 'proper' audax event. If you look at the NWP page on the audax UK website you'll see that it is a BRM event (Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux) and these have limits of 15-30 kph. The NWP is slightly overdistance but I think they class it as 200 km for the sake of calculating the speeds. 200 km at the slowest speed of 15 kph = 13 hours and 20 minutes. The event starts at 08:00, so the cut-off time for you would be 19:20 back at event HQ.

You have to factor in your stops - no allowance is made for them. If you take lots of long stops then you'll have to ride faster in between. I'm sure you will be okay though. I've done hillier 200s up into the Dales and back in about 10 hours and you are as fit now as I was then.

The mini-NWP is classed as a BP (Brevet Populaire) with relaxed speed limits of 10-20 kph.

The upper speed limits are to stop people trying to turn audax rides into races. It's actually pretty tough to average 30 kph over 200 km if you are stopping at cafes on the way, and especially if it is a very hilly route.


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## 400bhp (15 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Is anyone else signed up for the NW Passage Audax on 19th Feb? I know it starts in ColinJ's stamping ground.



I was going to do it, downloaded the gpx into bikeroutetoaster and decided against it.

The route is pretty poor IMO. As Colin states, far too many A roads.


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

400bhp said:


> I was going to do it, downloaded the gpx into bikeroutetoaster and decided against it.
> 
> The route is pretty poor IMO. As Colin states, far too many A roads.


In defence of the organisers though - it is a mid-February ride so it does make sense to stay away from some of the more scenic hills in case of snow and ice. The day that I rode it was dry and sunny so I got off the A-roads as much as possible and enjoyed the lanes. Mind you, I spent the whole day by myself so I could have done it whenever I felt like it and saved myself the entry fee!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (15 Feb 2011)

cheers colin,

i've been promised my bike will be ready and my new hope rear light will be attached . the forecast at the mo, is that it will be wet but warm. i'm slightly nervous.

how many people attended each one over the years?


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> cheers colin,
> 
> i've been promised my bike will be ready and my new hope rear light will be attached . the forecast at the mo, is that it will be wet but warm. i'm slightly nervous.
> 
> how many people attended each one over the years?



I hope the bike is sorted in time. If it isn't, you could always do the mini-NWP on the Brompton!

I reckon it was at least 70-odd for each event when the weather was okay. Put it this way, they sent us off in several groups of riders to avoid clogging the road up and to give us a chance to spread out. I've no idea about last year's events because it was so cold I stayed in bed!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (15 Feb 2011)

uh oh! i'm seriously thinking, that i might try and do a 300km, 400km & 600km to qualify for the pbp. what has happened to me?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (15 Feb 2011)

just joined audax uk.


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## potsy (15 Feb 2011)

Shaun, you seriously need to start drinking again!!


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> uh oh! i'm seriously thinking, that i might try and do a 300km, 400km & 600km to qualify for the pbp. what has happened to me?


You've obviously caught the long distance bug! It's something that I'll never suffer from. If I ever started to get fit enough to do longer rides, I'd prefer to concentrate on riding 100-250 kms more quickly. I'd really like to do a sub-5 hour imperial century and a sub-8 hour 200. Maybe I'd do a '300' or even a 200 mile ride if I could get it done in 14 hours or so in mid-summer, but I don't think I'd like the sleep-deprivation thing.

Hey, you could use the 1,200 km PBP as a training ride for the 2013 1,400 km LEL!


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> just joined audax uk.


And so it starts ...


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (15 Feb 2011)

it's one way to lose weight hehehe.


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## ColinJ (15 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> it's one way to lose weight hehehe.


I ate and drank as much as I could on my 200s and I still averaged a fat loss of about 1.25 pounds a ride!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (15 Feb 2011)

come on potsy get out on the mini one.


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## Fiona N (16 Feb 2011)

Having just seen the forecast for Saturday - heavy rain over the whole course - I'm getting wet feet  Even the mudguards aren't going to be enough...and there's snow on them thar' hills today


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## ColinJ (16 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Having just seen the forecast for Saturday - heavy rain over the whole course - I'm getting wet feet  Even the mudguards aren't going to be enough...and there's snow on them thar' hills today


I feel another DNS coming on! (At least I haven't entered in advance this time, though.)


Still, they can get forecasts wrong. I'll decide on Friday evening.


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## mcshroom (16 Feb 2011)

The weather forcast doesn't look very encouraging.






I'll keep a close eye on what Saturday is going to be like before I decide. I'm not sure I fancy cycling 75 miles in the snow


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## Fiona N (18 Feb 2011)

mcshroom said:


> The weather forcast doesn't look very encouraging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too right - I just looked at the 'next 24 hours' detail and the forecast is heavy rain and sleet - and that's for Rochdale not the higher ground. 

I think I'm getting very cold wet feet and that's before catching the train at 6am - plus, I still haven't put the proper mudguards on the good bike 

That's it - I've talked myself out of it - I can relax and the weather will improve for the rest of you


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## ColinJ (18 Feb 2011)

If I was fit and keen, I'd get up early enough in the morning to check the weather and make a decision then. As it is, I'm not, so I've made my decision now - _*I'm out too!*_

The forecast is for conditions to improve after lunch so, hopefully, I'll get a shorter ride in then.

Subject to better weather, we will be doing another forum ride out to Waddington and back next weekend. If nobody else has started the thread, I'll do it now.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Feb 2011)

if there is lying snow in the morning them i'm out, no way am i riding on slicks in the snow, but then again i could change to my cx tyres, but 150 miles on them? hmmm, will have to see.

would they officially call it off, and re-schedule if it was deemed too dodgy? or are audaxers hard core and it will be done in any weather?


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## ColinJ (18 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> if there is lying snow in the morning them i'm out, no way am i riding on slicks in the snow, but then again i could change to my cx tyres, but 150 miles on them? hmmm, will have to see.
> 
> would they officially call it off, and re-schedule if it was deemed too dodgy? or are audaxers hard core and it will be done in any weather?


I think it should be sleety rather than deep snow.

It's an interesting question what they would do if the weather actually was appalling. There must be some conditions which would make it virtually impossible but tomorrow isn't supposed to be _that_ bad!

I can't see how they would reschedule it because there is a full calendar of events and people plan their seasons out way in advance.


I'm sure it willl go ahead but with a (slightly?) reduced turn out because of the weather.

Conditions were so bad on_ Season of Mists_ last year that I abandoned at the end of the Long Causeway with _Alun_ and _battered. _Despite that, I think 50-odd more hardcore riders such as _Svendo_ and _zacklaws_ managed to get round.

I feel more inclined to make a big effort when I'm fit. I don't want to be struggling with the weather on top of lack of fitness!

Don't forget, you could always start off on the full NWP but decide to cut across at Gisburn and do the mini-NWP route instead if you think the conditions are too bad. (I don't know if that would officially count as a completed audax ride though because you'd have set off an hour early.)

Have a good time. I'm treating myself to a lie-in but I might do a short ride later on.



*** By the way - I've just started a new thread about next weekend's Waddington ride so pop over to it and add your name to the list! ***


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## mcshroom (18 Feb 2011)

I'm thinking that the worst of the weather should be through, so hopefully I'll be ok.

Seriously thinking about putting the 35mm Marathons back on though. I'll decide first thing in the morning.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Feb 2011)

see you down there tomorrow. i'll be the bloke with a big messenger bag & a ridiculously bright (new) rear light, on a cx.


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## mcshroom (19 Feb 2011)

I'm afraid you won't. I missed my alarm and I can't make it to Rochdale in 2 hrs from here 

Have a good ride bromptonfb


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (19 Feb 2011)

woke up at 5:30 this morning, it was snowing heavily and about 1/2 inch deep on the road. i had a brew and went back to bed. 

it's gone now, so a bit fed up with myself, for chickening out.

oh well, at least i'll get my tonne in, next weekend.


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## Garz (19 Feb 2011)

So the bad weather did hit!

What was it like in Hebden Colin?


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## ColinJ (19 Feb 2011)

Despite the forecast saying that the snow would be above 250 m, it was snowing in the town itself (100 m altitude) when I woke up. The snow was settling, but the sky is clearing now and the roads are turning slushy. I'm happy with my decision since there are a few fairly big hills to go over on the NWP/mNWP.

Here's me and some other CycleChatters shivering at the top of the A682 on the 2009 edition!






(L-R colly, Calum, trio25, longers, ColinJ)


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## Fiona N (19 Feb 2011)

Looks like a good decision to stay in bed. There's snow around Kendal down to about 100m too but not in the town (ca. 40m). It certainly looks fairly thick on the tops of the hills (>200m) but then there was already snow, from Thursday, I think.


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## longers (19 Feb 2011)

No snow in Oldham and the drizzle stopped at elevenish. Looking at Saddleworth and Alphin specifically there was none up there. Bit different not too far up the road then eh?

I was looking forward to hearing about the pies.

edited for: spelling


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## Crimmey (20 Feb 2011)

I turned around at top of Deerplay before Burnley and came back via Bacup due to the severity of snow,cold and wet. I've never seen snow flakes sooo huge. Quite a few mad people out there!


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

Crimmey said:


> I turned around at top of Deerplay before Burnley and came back via Bacup due to the severity of snow, cold and wet. I've never seen snow flakes sooo huge. Quite a few mad people out there!


Ah - I've just met bromptonfb to hand back a bit of his bike that fell off on the last forum ride (!) and we were wondering if anybody actually ventured out. 

Ah - some people completed the full NWP and the pub HQ ran out of pies so there must have been quite a few of them!


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

Crimmey said:


> I turned around at top of Deerplay before Burnley and came back via Bacup due to the severity of snow, cold and wet. I've never seen snow flakes sooo huge. Quite a few mad people out there!


I've just met bromptonfb to hand back a bit of his bike that fell off on the last forum ride (!) and we were wondering if anybody actually ventured out. 

Ah - some people completed the full NWP and the pub HQ ran out of pies so there must have been quite a few of them!


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## potsy (20 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I've just met bromptonfb to hand back a bit of his bike that fell off on the last forum ride (!) and we were wondering if anybody actually ventured out.
> 
> Ah - some people completed the full NWP and the pub HQ ran out of pies so there must have been quite a few of them!



I hope you met him halfway Colin




more miles in the bank? 
Have you got my mobile number? Could I have yours?


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

potsy said:


> I hope you met him halfway Colin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, he was driving. His wife was with him and they were going for a scenic drive which is a recce for a route that Shaun fancies tackling some time. It is actually very similar to the _Spring Into The Dales_ route. I don't know if he made it up or found it somewhere - he called it _Hebden-to-Hebden_. One Hebden is a village very close to Grassington, the other being Hebden Bridge, of course. It is a nice route but a bit tough for our current fitness and weather. (I'm sure _he_ could manage it ok though!)

I do have your mobile number so I'll text you now ... It's my ride phone. I don't normally carry it, so outside of ride days it is best to PM me on CycleChat. I check in here several times a day.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> No, he was driving. His wife was with him and they were going for a scenic drive which is a recce for a route that Shaun fancies tackling some time. It is actually very similar to the _Spring Into The Dales_ route.* I don't know if he made it up* or found it somewhere - he called it _Hebden-to-Hebden_. One Hebden is a village very close to Grassington, the other being Hebden Bridge, of course. It is a nice route but a bit tough for our current fitness and weather. (I'm sure _he_ could manage it ok though!)
> 
> I do have your mobile number so I'll text you now ... It's my ride phone. I don't normally carry it, so outside of ride days it is best to PM me on CycleChat. I check in here several times a day.



no no, i've cycled to grassington loads of times when i lived in nelson. i did a recce today and it needs tweaking, the current skipton bit is boring and dull.


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> no no, i've cycled to grassington loads of times when i lived in nelson. i did a recce today and it needs tweaking, the current skipton bit is boring and dull.


You definitely don't need to go to Skipton! I've been cycling up to Wharfedale for 20 years and know all the different variations and where the nice bits are. 

As I said, the Spring Into The Dales route is a very good basis for such a ride. The only thing about SITD is that it comes back through Keighley which is a let down after the glories that come before. I worked out a nice diversion, but it does involve going up a tough climb fairly late in the ride which might have a few people off and walking.

I'll post a suggestion later...


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Feb 2011)

okey dokey


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## Garz (20 Feb 2011)

*awaits 'suggestion' post*


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## potsy (20 Feb 2011)

Garz said:


> *awaits 'suggestion' post*



It's obviously a long long route



( or Colin's found a 4 pack in the back of the fridge )


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## Garz (20 Feb 2011)

Yes potsy, or he has got distracted like the course creators that home in on chevrons using his memory map software.


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## Christopher (20 Feb 2011)

I _had_ planned to come along to the start of this and meet some of the forumites but didn't bother as it seems everyone pulled out. So i got the train to Penrith, biked to the parking area at the end of Ullswater, put the walking gear on, locked the bike, hefted the ice axe and set off. Plenty of wind and fresh snow up there, I did High Street via its east ridge (bit airy) then a short wander northwards in pretty bad conditions (southerly wind and hill fog) as far as Rest Dodd then back down. There were a few other idiots, er walkers, about. A really great day. Shame I left the camera at home as there were some lovely views of snowy mountains in the clouds as the fog would clear for a few seconds every so often. Then a bit of a rest at the car aprk & wandered back to Pebrith. Slept well last night!
NB can't make next w/e ride before you ask Colin!


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

Garz said:


> *awaits 'suggestion' post*





potsy said:


> It's obviously a long long route
> 
> 
> 
> ( or Colin's found a 4 pack in the back of the fridge )





Garz said:


> Yes potsy, or he has got distracted like the course creators that home in on chevrons using his memory map software.


I was just about to nuke (microwave) a frozen portion of the veggie curry that I made last week when a friend rang and asked if I fancied sharing a Chinese takeaway, which I did, so that took up an hour and then we ended up watching an old b/w Henry Fonda movie that I'd stored on my PVR.

Normal service will now be resumed!

I have my beer chilling in the fridge and my new regime starts tomorrow (8 500 mL cans a week limit, plus regular exercise).

As for the chevrons ... I'm working on them! 

I think Shaun is right, that there is a good forum ride in the Hebden-to-Hebden idea but I think it should wait until the summer. We have SITD coming up in April and that always feels pretty tough so I don't want to do an even tougher ride out there before SITD, and I wouldn't want to do one immediately afterwards either. I'm booked up the last week in May and the first week in June so from my point of view, about the end of June would be great for me, don't know about the rest of you?

I'll stick a suggestion for a route on Bikely in a hour or so.



Frustruck said:


> I _had_ planned to come along to the start of this and meet some of the forumites but didn't bother as it seems everyone pulled out. So i got the train to Penrith, biked to the parking area at the end of Ullswater, put the walking gear on, locked the bike, hefted the ice axe and set off. Plenty of wind and fresh snow up there, I did High Street via its east ridge (bit airy) then a short wander northwards in pretty bad conditions (southerly wind and hill fog) as far as Rest Dodd then back down. There were a few other idiots, er walkers, about. A really great day. Shame I left the camera at home as there were some lovely views of snowy mountains in the clouds as the fog would clear for a few seconds every so often. Then a bit of a rest at the car aprk & wandered back to Pebrith. Slept well last night!
> NB can't make next w/e ride before you ask Colin!


That sounds good, and yes, take the camera next time!

About 20 years ago, the company I worked for sent me on a 5-day training course held at the Haweswater Hotel. I'd never been to the Lake District before so I wondered what the fuss was about. I managed to blag a lift up there with a colleague. It was dark by the time we got up there so we couldn't see any of the scenery. We arrived at the hotel, were shown to our rooms where we unpacked out things and then we went downstairs for a buffet meal. We met the other people on the course and had a few drinks in the hotel bar which stayed open late each evening for us.

Anyway, I woke up the next morning feeling slightly hungover, opened the curtains and found myself staring straight out over Haweswater at High Street - _fantastic! _




_
_
The weather was great that week so it was a pity that we were cooped up indoors with all that wonderful scenery stretching out before us, but on the Wednesday afternoon we were given a team-building exercise which was to walk from the car park at the end of Haweswater, up over High Street and back round to the hotel. 

The water level in the reservoir was really low and we could see the ruins of the drowned hamlet of Mardale Green. 

It was a fine afternoon for a strenuous walk over the Fells, but two of our number were not looking at the footpath we were following, but instead were staring up at the big crags towering above us to our left. Checking on the map now, I'd say that was Harter Fell. Next thing, the two of them ran over to the rock face and started free-climbing the damn thing! I was impressed, but also terrified that they'd fall off and we'd have to call out mountain rescue to collect their corpses.

The rest of us continued up the footpath and stopped as instructed for a picnic lunch at Small Water. A couple of minutes later the two guys scrambled into view with big grins on their faces. Climbers - clearly a breed apart!


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## Garz (20 Feb 2011)

> I'll stick a suggestion for a route on Bikely in a hour or so.



*Still awaiting 'suggestion' post*





Awesome pic (and story) of the Lakes.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (20 Feb 2011)

howz this for a start? i'll work on the way back.

route suggestion, hebden to hebden


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

Garz said:


> *Still awaiting 'suggestion' post*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I've caught up on all the posts now so I can get back to Memory Map!

The picture is on the Haweswater Hotel website which I linked to above.


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## potsy (20 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> howz this for a start? i'll work on the way back.
> 
> route suggestion, hebden to hebden


is it flat?


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## ColinJ (20 Feb 2011)

Okay, while Shaun is working on his, here's mine: Hebden Bridge - Hebden - Hebden Bridge. 113 km (70 miles).



potsy said:


> is it flat?



Shaun's isn't _quite_ flat. And as for mine - well, er ...


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (21 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> Okay, while Shaun is working on his, here's mine: Hebden Bridge - Hebden - Hebden Bridge. 113 km (70 miles).
> 
> 
> 
> Shaun's isn't _quite_ flat. And as for mine - well, er ...




what's the figures on ascents?

the elevation data / graph doesn't show on my browser.

your routes better than mine, although it would be nice to see the weird narrow roads between threshfield and hebden.


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## Christopher (21 Feb 2011)

Cheers Colin - great story. Ullswater was extremely full on Sat'day, the water level was just below the spillway, so about as full as it gets - it was nearly up to the lakeside path in places.

I passed the hotel, never been in there. Am worried that places like that can be snooty. Wainwright says that there was a pub roughly where the car park is now. It was demolished along with the rest of the hamlet in the 1930s... it's true as I looked at various old OS maps of the area. And I will take a camera, I got the digital one very wet last month but it seems to be fine now - it had stopped working altogether but drying it out & reformatting it seems to have done the trick.


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## ColinJ (21 Feb 2011)

Frustruck said:


> Cheers Colin - great story.


What I didn't mention was the fact that the car park at the end of the road was full. It wasn't full of the empty cars of people out walking the fells. No, it was full of people who were still sitting in their cars, drinking from flasks and listening to their radios. What's that all about? You drive out to somewhere beautiful, somewhere that could be _quiet_ and beautiful, and you can't be arsed to even get out of your car, walk across the car park, climb over a stile and sit somewhere on the hillside beyond. If they had walked even 400 metres up the hill they would have had much more dramatic views. And as for blasting each other with loud music ... sometimes I just don't get people!

One of the things that really struck me when we stopped for our picnic lunch was how quiet it was up there on the fells. All I could hear was the sound of my own breathing, a gentle breeze gusting, and the distant call of a bird.



Frustruck said:


> I passed the hotel, never been in there. Am worried that places like that can be snooty.



I don't know what it is like normally, you could be right, who knows? When we were there it was okay because we had taken over the place for 5 days so it was just a couple of staff, the people running the course and about 12 (?) of us.

I'm glad your camera is okay. I must admit that I've been worried about mine because I carry it on a little bag attached to my handlebar stem so it doesn't get much protection when it rains. I ought to wrap it in a polythene bag but always forget to.


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## ColinJ (21 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> what's the figures on ascents?


Roughly 2,500 m (8,200 ft).



bromptonfb said:


> the elevation data / graph doesn't show on my browser.


I've never managed to get Bikely's elevation display to work! I produce my profiles in Memory Map before exporting the gpx files to Bikely. When I've got time, I'll go back and edit my route descriptions to include ascent data and links to profiles which I'll host on my blog.



bromptonfb said:


> it would be nice to see the weird narrow roads between threshfield and hebden.


I'm confused - the only road between Threshfield and Hebden is the B-road through Grassington! My route does take the little road out of Hebden on the way to Appletreewick though if that is the one you mean?

The best weird narrow road I know in that area is the one between Cracoe and Thorpe which your route took - but so does mine! It's this one:






From which this picture of Grassington was taken:






And this is a picture of me standing on it with Svendo and Alun:


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## Fiona N (21 Feb 2011)

I've always been curious - in a sort of academic way - about cycling the Patley Bridge road past Greenhow. I remember it from day trips out to the quarry at Greenhow (collecting mineral samples - there used to be loads of really spectacular galena in the spoil heaps but these disappeared once 'rock collecting' (i.e. buying samples at fairs) became popular. Mind you by that time our family had probably acquired about half a tonne) as being extremely steep out of Patley and wondered if it really is that steep or it's just childish memories of 1-in-4 or something. Do any sportives used it?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (21 Feb 2011)

i use to use that road when i was working in ripon, the b6265 iirc. and i remember there being a climb, out of somewhere, near there being horrendously steep, even the old landy's struggled.

i'd be up for a ride out that way if you fancy company going down memory lane.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (21 Feb 2011)

just been looking on bikehike / google maps and the proposed route passes very near by the climb up to 'stump cross caverns'. i wonder if the cafe's still there?


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## Garz (21 Feb 2011)

Looks a cracking route Colin. Reckon we need to strap our knee's so they don't buckle under the strain?

It must be glorious on a good day riding that area, such a shame as it flips completely on damp dark days I bet it could also be quite grim.


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## ColinJ (21 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I've always been curious - in a sort of academic way - about cycling the Patley Bridge road past Greenhow. I remember it from day trips out to the quarry at Greenhow (collecting mineral samples - there used to be loads of really spectacular galena in the spoil heaps but these disappeared once 'rock collecting' (i.e. buying samples at fairs) became popular. Mind you by that time our family had probably acquired about half a tonne) as being extremely steep out of Patley and wondered if it really is that steep or it's just childish memories of 1-in-4 or something. Do any sportives used it?





bromptonfb said:


> i use to use that road when i was working in ripon, the b6265 iirc. and i remember there being a climb, out of somewhere, near there being horrendously steep, even the old landy's struggled.
> 
> i'd be up for a ride out that way if you fancy company going down memory lane.


The B6265 is pretty steep in places. I climbed up it on the killer self-plotted unofficial 200 I did in 2006 (when I was slimmer and fitter!). It was a succession of steep ramps but they are only single chevrons on the OS map, so what's that, 17-20%?

I think the horrendously steep road is the little lane which goes south from Pateley Bridge through Bewerley up to Yorke's Folly. That has double chevrons and looks like it would be really nice/nasty depending on how good your climbing legs were!



bromptonfb said:


> just been looking on bikehike / google maps and the proposed route passes very near by the climb up to 'stump cross caverns'. i wonder if the cafe's still there?


Yes - Stump Cross Caverns Cafe - but I think going to the Cavendish Pavilion cafe by the Wharfe after Appletreewick makes more sense than going up yet another steep climb only to come back down it again! 



Garz said:


> Looks a cracking route Colin. Reckon we need to strap our knee's so they don't buckle under the strain?
> 
> It must be glorious on a good day riding that area, such a shame as it flips completely on damp dark days I bet it could also be quite grim.


The weather was pretty kind to me most of the time on my aforementioned 200 km ride. I'd never have got up Park Rash on my bike if the roads had been greasy. Unfortunately, things turned grim and grey after Coverdale. 

The 25% descent on wet roads to Lofthouse at the end of Nidderdale was pretty scary! It carried on raining to Pateley Bridge and back over to Grassington, then it brightened up again. Yes - it's great out there in sunshine, but a completely different story in bad conditions!


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## Fiona N (22 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> i use to use that road when i was working in ripon, the b6265 iirc. and i remember there being a climb, out of somewhere, near there being horrendously steep, even the old landy's struggled.
> 
> i'd be up for a ride out that way if you fancy company going down memory lane.



Thanks bromptonfb but I don't think I'll be up to tackling that for a couple of months. Like ColinJ says, low fitness and high weight are not a good combination for those sort of routes.

But I'd love to extend my usual Hawes circuit out to Ripon so could return via Patley Bridge and Greenhow to Grassington, Hetton, past Malham to Settle. It could turn into a really serious 200km if from Settle I returned via Horton, Ribblehead, Dentdale, Sedbergh and the Black Horse climb back to Kendal. My legs are tiring just typing that out...


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## ColinJ (22 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Thanks bromptonfb but I don't think I'll be up to tackling that for a couple of months. Like ColinJ says, low fitness and high weight are not a good combination for those sort of routes.


I've been wondering if it is realistic for me to try and get fit enough to repeat my mega-hilly Park Rash 200 from Hebden Bridge again by this summer. Looking at what I've done over the past year or so, I'd have to say no, but then I remember that I have managed 2+ pounds loss a week consistently over a period of months in the recent past ...

If I really got stuck in, I could be dipping back down just below 13 stone by the end of June. That's the weight I was when I did my 200. It would make a great summer forum ride - in good weather!



Fiona N said:


> But I'd love to extend my usual Hawes circuit out to Ripon so could return via Patley Bridge and Greenhow to Grassington, Hetton, past Malham to Settle. It could turn into a really serious 200km if from Settle I returned via Horton, Ribblehead, Dentdale, Sedbergh and the Black Horse climb back to Kendal. My legs are tiring just typing that out...



That sounds fantastic too!


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## Fiona N (22 Feb 2011)

I forgot to add - I've love to extend my usual Hawes circuit out to Ripon *sometime around June or July...*

In theory, time to lose 10-12 kgs


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (22 Feb 2011)

get it organized, i'm sure there will be plenty of cc'ers up for a challenge, later on in the summer?


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## Garz (22 Feb 2011)

Absolutely!


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## ColinJ (22 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I forgot to add - I've love to extend my usual Hawes circuit out to Ripon *sometime around June or July...*
> 
> In theory, time to lose 10-12 kgs


In my case - 19 kgs!


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## Garz (22 Feb 2011)

12 weeks @ ~ 2lbs per week is two stone and very do-able. Would make a lot of difference and if your ahead of plan the 19kg's wont be far off!


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

Garz said:


> 12 weeks @ ~ 2lbs per week is two stone and very do-able. Would make a lot of difference and if your ahead of plan the 19kg's wont be far off!


Well, strictly it is 12 weeks at 2.33 lbs/wk but it was a '~' not a '=' so I forgive you!

19 kgs in 12 weeks is ~ 1.6 kgs/wk or 3.5 lbs/wk. It's doable but pushing it. If someone had kidnapped my family and was going to shoot them unless I lost that amount of weight, I'd make sure I did. 

At this time of year, I don't think I want to do what is necessary to achieve that rate of loss - approximately 200 miles of cycling a week as well as a significant reduction in my food intake and no booze at all.

Anyway, I'm not going to start weighing myself until next Monday (the day after the forum ride to Waddington). I want to let my body get used to my drastically reduced booze intake and see where that leaves me.

PS Actually, I meant the _end_ of June, so that is over 18 weeks away and very doable indeed - about 1 kg/wk or 2.2 lbs/wk.


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## Fiona N (23 Feb 2011)

To aid Colin's and my efforts - let's plan on a Kendal-Hawes-Ripon-Patley Br-Settle-(bypass the A65 north or south) - Kendal sometime in July. That also gives the P-B-P qualifyers time to get their rides out of the way and potentially gives us a pool of strong riders who could assist with pacing on the easier bits.

I'll have a think about the route but basically I have two ways of getting to Hawes from Kendal (well, from close to Oxenholme Station rather than Kendal town centre):

The short but steep route goes cross country past Killington services and the reservoir to hit the Kendal-Sedbergh road, then through Sedbergh and straight up Dentdale - a lot of climbing and some of it pretty strenuously steep. This route could be made somewhat less strenuous by swopping Garsdale for Dentdale as the climb over the pass on the way to Hawes is longer but gentler and, although it's notionally an A road, it's not exactly busy - or big for that matter - and it is very pretty. 

The other route is longer but rather lovely, with fewer steep hills and more long gradients, going south to cross the Lune River east of Lancaster, then up the Lune valley towards Wennington and across to Ingleton (where I usually stop for an early coffee) then up the long climb up to Ribblehead to join the Sedbergh route at Dentdale head from where there is a superb descent into Hawes.

From Hawes, I usually return via Kirby Stephen (normally the direct route but occasionally, if I'm feeling good, over the evil Butter Tubs climb to Thwaite and Muker) but taking the longer variants gives a route of barely 150km. Extending the route from Hawes to Ripon, Patley Br, Grassington and Settle would come in at over 200km, especially if to avoid the A65 back from Settle you started adding in detours.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

ooooh, i like the sound of the 200km, especially avoiding the ever busy a65.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

Fiona N said:


> To aid Colin's and my efforts - let's plan on a Kendal-Hawes-Ripon-Patley Br-Settle-(bypass the A65 north or south) - Kendal sometime in July. That also gives the P-B-P qualifyers time to get their rides out of the way and potentially gives us a pool of strong riders who could assist with pacing on the easier bits.
> 
> I'll have a think about the route but basically I have two ways of getting to Hawes from Kendal (well, from close to Oxenholme Station rather than Kendal town centre):
> 
> ...



there you go potsy & colin, a target to aim for and plenty of time to get fit enough, are you up for the challenge?


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> there you go potsy & colin, a target to aim for and plenty of time to get fit enough, are you up for the challenge?


I'm busy working out the logistics of getting there and back, plus looking at the route Fiona suggested with possible variations. A quick plot on Memory map indicates that it would be well over 200 km if Ripon and Pateley Bridge were included but I'd be wanting to bring it in as close to 200 kms as possible! 

It couldn't be a Sunday if people were going to travel by train. They just don't run early and late enough to give time for an unhurried 200. There's also a limit on how many bikes can officially be carried per train, and I wouldn't fancy just turning up and hoping they'd let me on so I'd want to book. A return ticket from Hebden Bridge is £35! It is possible to save a bit by buying multiple single tickets in advance, but the cheapest combination I could find was about £27. Still a bit steep for me in my current impecunious state!

I think realistically, it would involve driving there and back so I wouldn't be able to do it unless perhaps Kevin offered me a lift. 

I like the idea of Oxenholme, Sedbergh, Dentdale, Hawes ... (then numerous possible variations) ... and then Settle, (avoid the A65 so maybe?) Keasden, Wray, Gressingham, then the B6254 via Kirkby Lonsdale to Oxenholme?

Fiona - is the B6254 ok?

I can see lots of possible variations for the middle section from Hawes (assuming we _don't_ go the Swaledale route over Butter Tubs) ... 


Hawes, ... Ripon, Pateley Bridge, Grassington, Hetton, Airton, Settle?
Hawes, Abbey Hill, Leighton, Lofthouse, Nidderdale, Pateley Bridge, Grassington, Hetton, Airton, Settle?

Hawes, Fleet Moss, Langstrothdale, Wharfedale, Littondale, Arncliffe, Malham Tarn, Settle?
Hawes, Fleet Moss, Langstrothdale, Wharfedale, Threshfield, Hetton, Airton, Settle?
Hawes, Aysgarth, Bishopdale, Wharfedale, Littondale, Arncliffe, Malham Tarn, Settle?
Hawes, Aysgarth, Bishopdale, Wharfedale, Threshfield, Hetton, Airton, Settle?
Hawes, Wensley, Carlton, Coverdale, a very careful descent of Park Rash!!!, Wharfedale, Littondale, arncliffe, Malham Tarn, Settle?
Hawes, Wensley, Carlton, Coverdale, a very careful descent of Park Rash!!!, Wharfedale, Threshfield, Hetton, Airton, Settle?
I don't mind plotting these variations and seeing what they come out at in terms of distance and ascent if you like?

Could we agree on the ride out to Hawes and the ride back from Settle, then discuss the various options?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

don't worry about getting there, i have a trailer for the car and i'm sure my misses wouldn't mind me nicking it for a day.


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## potsy (23 Feb 2011)

I'd be looking to drive there too, just over an hour I reckon.
We'll have to get some serious training/dieting done for it to be feasible though, something to aim for anyway.


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

I'd prefer to be under 13 stone to do a ride like that, but TBH, I was 14 stone when did my very hilly 141 mile Hebden Bridge to Coventry, Coventry to Hebden Bridge rides in 2007 and I was okay. Let's face it - Shaun is still 16 stone-ish and he's riding strongly so it is more a question of fitness than fatness. 

Our extra weight should only make us about 20% slower when climbing, and will make long descents easier. It's the lack of hard miles which is really making me suffer.


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## potsy (23 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I'd prefer to be under 13 stone to do a ride like that, but TBH, I was 14 stone when did my very hilly 141 mile Hebden Bridge to Coventry, Coventry to Hebden Bridge rides in 2007 and I was okay. Let's face it - *Shaun is still 16 stone-ish* and he's riding strongly so it is more a question of fitness than fatness.
> 
> Our extra weight should only make us about 20% slower when climbing, and will make long descents easier. It's the lack of hard miles which is really making me suffer.



At least






I wish I could have just one day where I am magically 12 stone, just to see how much difference it would make, the lightest I've been since cycling is 14 stone, no way I could even think of doing that ride at my current weight


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

potsy said:


> At least
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Magically losing the weight would make a big difference, but how about magically being really fit as well, what would that feel like? 

Let me put it to you this way ... 

I'm big and unfit now and struggling on steep hills even with my 30/28 bottom gear. Even before its wheel bearings went kaput, I was hardly ever riding my Cannondale because I was struggling on steep climbs with it's 39/29 bottom gear.

Back in 2001, however, I got my weight down to 11 st 10 lbs. I done a winter of hard turbo-training and from late winter onwards I got back on the road and started putting some hard rides in. That year, I had a 12-23 cassette on rather than the 14-28 I now use. Climbs I struggle on in 30/28 now, I was climbing easily in 39/23. I didn't use the granny ring on my bike all year!

Being slim _and_ fit on a bike is a great feeling!

I've suffered on the Manchester 100 lots of times. People will tell you it is a pan-flat route, but it isn't - it is _flattish! _There are lots of little climbs in it which are nothing when you are fit, but just completely kill your speed when you are not. Most years I was getting blown out the back of the bunch every time we hit one of them. In 2001, I was sprinting up them. It was fantastic.

We both have time to be in that kind of shape come July. It will be hard work, but let's go for it!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

potsy, have i ever left you behind? you are already capable, subject to the weather. the ride us 3 did was far harder in that weather than the july ride will be. you have more than enough time. grow a pair.....


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

and for the record, i'm nearer 17 stone....


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## mcshroom (23 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> and for the record, i'm nearer 17 stone....



and unfortunately I trump everyone at 18st  

Looks like I'm going to have to put some serious work in if I'm ever going to ride with you lot. Even if I have a 28x32 to grovel in


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> potsy, have i ever left you behind? you are already capable, subject to the weather. the ride us 3 did was far harder in that weather than the july ride will be. you have more than enough time. grow a pair.....


There is one little fact worth pointing out - that is it will be about 4 times as far with 2-3 times the climbing! 

I have the advantage of knowing what such a ride is like, having done about 15 of them, so I know what I have to do to get ready for one. Potsy doesn't have that experience so it must seem a pretty scary prospect.

Still, whatever happens, we'll be riding somewhere and enjoying it. 

Let's just hope we actually have a proper summer this year, I did that ride down to Coventry on 28th June 2007 and it was so gloomy, damp and windy that I had to wear legwarmers, a long-sleeved base-layer, armwarmers and a gilet to keep myself warm!


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

the guts he showed on that miserable day was impressive. the guts he showed on the 115 miles was impressive. it is 6 months away. i have faith in him & you, all you need to do is ride maaann riiiideeee!!!.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

+1 to the good summer


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

Shaun - the forecast is okay for tomorrow and Friday, Do you fancy getting a ride in? I was thinking of the Trawden ride again, but coming back along the Long Causeway instead of Widdop.

I have to do my shopping in the morning, so if you fancy it, how about the Market Place car park at noon? Scrub that the market is on there, which is why I'll be shopping - *meeting at the front of the Italian cafe at noon!*

I'll be offline for a couple of hours now, I'll check back later to see if you are free tomorrow.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Feb 2011)

okey dokey. 12 it is.


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## Fiona N (23 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I like the idea of Oxenholme, Sedbergh, Dentdale, Hawes ... (then numerous possible variations) ... and then Settle, (avoid the A65 so maybe?) Keasden, Wray, Gressingham, then the B6254 via Kirkby Lonsdale to Oxenholme?
> 
> Fiona - is the B6254 ok?



Yes - it's a good road, not that much traffic, especially from KL north and wide enough that's it's not a problem. It's a fairly stiff climb from KL at the end of the day although once you get to the summit, is it more or less downhill to Oxenholme station. My route back from Kirby Stephen has a strenuous climb from Tebay to Lune Gap followed by some evil short ascents on the road back to Kendal. I've never had to get off and walk but it's a close run thing. That's unless I head across through Orton to the A6 and the easy side of Shap. 

I'd leave the route setting until we've a better idea of people's fitness. I'd like to aim high but, being realistic, unless I've lost a fair amount of that 12 kg, the steep stuff is likely to knacker me too much to keep on doing it all day. In which case I'd be plumbing for the Garsdale route to Hawes...


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## ColinJ (23 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> okey dokey. 12 it is.


At the Italian cafe, yes!


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## ColinJ (24 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> At the Italian cafe, yes!


Or even lurking round the corner to get away the smokers sitting outside! 

A nice ride Shaun, in lovely spring-like weather! I hope you got back safely. See you on Sunday.


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## potsy (24 Feb 2011)

ColinJ said:


> Or even lurking round the corner to get away the smokers sitting outside!
> 
> A nice ride Shaun, in lovely spring-like weather! I hope you got back safely. See you on Sunday.



Oh I hope the weather Sunday is as nice as it was today, was it a copy of the ride we did last? 
You seem to be getting into the mood again Colin


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (24 Feb 2011)

yeah got back oki doki. 62.1 miles and nearly 1800m climbing. it was a gorgeous day. i even cleared nasty nasty evil widdup on compact gearing...well chuffed.

when you putting piccies up colin?


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## ColinJ (24 Feb 2011)

potsy said:


> Oh I hope the weather Sunday is as nice as it was today, was it a copy of the ride we did last?


It was, except that instead of Wycoller cafe, we called in at a nice cafe in Heptonstall towards the end - Towngate Tearoom (on Google Streetview). 

I said I'd give them a little plug - the owner told us that her husband is a keen cyclist. They have some bike locks you can use, so ask if you call in there. (It's at the top of a steep hill so if an opportunist thief hopped on your unlocked bike, you would never catch him/her!)

Shaun managed to ride up the steep bugger on the way back to Widdop this time. Previously, he proved that he could walk up the climb as fast as I could ride it. This time he proved that it is faster for him to ride it!

I've done well on the beer reduction - 3 days off, but I'm going to meet some former workmates now at the pub! I haven't been to the pub since last June and I haven't seen this guys for a year and a half, so I'm going to dip into my weekly quota tonight, but will save some for 'post-ride recovery drinks' on Sunday! 



potsy said:


> You seem to be getting into the mood again Colin


The sunshine and milder temperatures really help! I was in cool weather gear rather than full-winter, and I had to roll down my arm-warmers and unzip my gilet at times because I was getting too warm.


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## ColinJ (24 Feb 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> yeah got back oki doki. 62.1 miles and nearly 1800m climbing. it was a gorgeous day. i even cleared nasty nasty evil widdup on compact gearing...well chuffed.
> 
> when you putting piccies up colin?


Good stuff. I did 31, so going the alternative way over Penistone Hill adds about 2 miles to my original _Trauma of Trawden_ route. That ties in with the 32 miles we did when we called in at Wycoller the other time.

I'm just going out, but if I'm not too late back I'll post some pictures later. If not, I'll do it tomorrow. See ya Sunday!


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## potsy (24 Feb 2011)

I take it you didn't have the wind to push you up that hill Contador style this time?




Sounds like a good ride, did you manage the Widdup climb again? 

Well done Shaun, I was hoping I had some holidays soon so I could get over for a mid-week ride with you, but my week off is a couple of weeks after yours finish


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## ColinJ (24 Feb 2011)

potsy said:


> I take it you didn't have the wind to push you up that hill Contador style this time?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The wind was much gentler today!

I did manage the climb - very slowly - 4.2 kph when I looked down at the GPS!

I could be up for a mid-week ride then if we get a nice day. Just give me a day or two's notice if you fancy it.

Right - I've got to dash. Actually, I'm too stiff and sore from those hills -_ hobble!_


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## Fiona N (6 Apr 2011)

Fiona N said:


> - let's plan on a Kendal-Hawes-Ripon-Patley Br-Settle-(bypass the A65 north or south) - Kendal sometime in July.



I'll transfer this as a new topic to the CC Forum rides forum to concentrate our minds....


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