# 5 ft 6", Short Legs, MTB Recommendation for Trails £1500-£2000



## RuffDraft (26 Jun 2016)

Hello everyone,

Recently, I went on a bike ride for six hours (2 x 3 hours) with the children I teach. We went on different trails and I had the best time. On the trails, we did steep hills of around 2 metres in height, and often went down to go up the same height, which I really liked. I am hoping to take up mountain biking, as I enjoyed riding a bike as a child, and haven't had as much fun as I did on the trails last week in ages! I weight 15 stone, but I am more so toned than fat (I don't know if weight is something to consider). 

Today, I have been searching the web for a bike. My brother is hardcore into it with triathlons etc. and I've spoken to a mountain biker and a road cyclist. The general recommendation has been to get a hard tail. They said that cheap = rust. I want to get a good bike that will allow me to challenge myself. My aim is to ride trails like the ones I have described, with a view of pushing myself a little further, though I do not wish to break any bones with this hobby. I will ride once or twice a week and drive to different trails in the North West, UK. 

I considered the Scott Scale 730, but I read on another forum that this bike is incredibly fast (sometimes too fast for the unskilled and requires you to ride closer to the front wheel than other bikes). Therefore, I continued searching until I came across the Cotic Soul, which riders explained was a great ride and great at cornering. Also, the Cotic Soul was a much more comfortable ride than the Scott Scale 730. However, both bikes are upwards of the £2000. Are there any bikes in the £1500 budget that are comparable to the two previously mentioned bikes? What would you recommend? I do not wish to use my bike as a road bike. I do not like the idea of being knocked off by a passing driver. 

Thanks to anyone who can help!


----------



## Cubist (27 Jun 2016)

If you have that sort of budget, you need to look at trail bikes rather than XC bikes. Some names to look at with the sort of use you intend would be Bird, On One, Ragley, Genesis, and of course Cotic. Slack and playful frames with rugged components, mid travel fork and strong wheels. 

Oh, and welcome e.


----------



## RuffDraft (27 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> If you have that sort of budget, you need to look at trail bikes rather than XC bikes. Some names to look at with the sort of use you intend would be Bird, On One, Ragley, Genesis, and of course Cotic. Slack and playful frames with rugged components, mid travel fork and strong wheels.
> 
> Oh, and welcome e.



Thanks Cubist. Do you have any particular preferences out of the brand names that you mentioned, or any particular bikes in mind? 

I think with whatever I do, I always wish to stretch the budget in order to be safe and secure with what I am using, and always have room to grow. If I buy an expensive bike now, hopefully I won't have to buy again in the long run. Sound wise or stupid? 

Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## MichaelW2 (27 Jun 2016)

If you have proportionally short legs, look for a bike with a proportionally long frame for its height. A compact style dropped top tube will help with . Short cranks also help. 170mm is standard and 175mm is often found of MTBs.


----------



## RuffDraft (27 Jun 2016)

MichaelW2 said:


> If you have proportionally short legs, look for a bike with a proportionally long frame for its height. A compact style dropped top tube will help with . Short cranks also help. 170mm is standard and 175mm is often found of MTBs.



You just said a bunch of things that I didn't understand, but thank you! I'll look into it and try to comprehend it!


----------



## RuffDraft (27 Jun 2016)

Hi Everyone,

So after looking at the options in detail, and reading some threads from here in years gone by, I think the Cotic Soul sounds like a fantastic bike. Their Small frame is unavailable until the Summer, but it sounds like a great bike to get. Could anyone break down whether the silver or gold are vastly different? Is the Silver simply the cheapest products they could attach to the Soul, whilst the Gold is the one that everyone here raves about? 

A good breakdown would be greatly appreciated - I can't find anything online!


----------



## Levo-Lon (28 Jun 2016)

Have a look at Canyon..lot of bike for sensible money.
extra small will suit your size.

grand canyon CF6.9 ? 

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/


----------



## Cubist (28 Jun 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> So after looking at the options in detail, and reading some threads from here in years gone by, I think the Cotic Soul sounds like a fantastic bike. Their Small frame is unavailable until the Summer, but it sounds like a great bike to get. Could anyone break down whether the silver or gold are vastly different? Is the Silver simply the cheapest products they could attach to the Soul, whilst the Gold is the one that everyone here raves about?
> 
> A good breakdown would be greatly appreciated - I can't find anything online!


The Cotic Soul is a bit of a legend. When they were first produced they kind of broke the mould of hardtail ownership. The hardtail market then was flooded with European style bikes, in two camps. The first was the out and out race thoroughbred with steep head angles, shortish travel suspension (on a 26 inch wheel bike the fork was typically 80 or 100mm travel. ) They were fast, fun and furious, but were a bit hard to tame. The other side of the divide was the trekking bike. In those days Europeans didn't particularly go to ride trail centres, that was a peculiarly British thing, and this part of the market provided an ostensibly similar type of bike to the XC, but more utilitarian, designed for all day riding on fire roads and bridleways. They didn't perform well on sketchy stuff, that was the domain of the full suss XC or trail bikes. People wanted to ride without racing, but they didn't want to be jarred or thrown over the bars of their fast hardtail, and initially led by the full suss side, the All Mountain bike evolved onto the scene. Longer travel, typically 120mm-140mm suspension was making its presence felt, and slacker geometry, meaning that a rider looking down a descent wasn't staring into the abyss.

UK riders had to be different. They wanted the hardtail, but they also wanted the geometry of the AM bike, and so the hooligan hardtail or AM hardtail was born. British framebuilders led the way, with Ragley, On One and Cotic producing slack hardtails capable of taking a beating, and (eventually) taking long travel forks. The Ragley Bluepig (named after a famous Calderdale descent) may have started the trend, a sturdy cromo steel frame , but their Mmmbop was a similar hardtail in Aluminium. One One went for Chromoly Steel on their 456, having first offered the Inbred. (The 4,5,6 denotes the geometry was suited to a 4", 5" inch or 6" travel fork. ) Cotic produced the BFe (Burly Iron) and then the Soul in Reynolds 853 steel to the same spec. Capable of taking a beating, but weighing much less than the BFe. All the frames share common characteristics, of massive standover clearance, long slack front end, and snappy short rear. Playful, better at going down, but not impossible to ride up. Others have since followed suit, but the original DNA can be traced back to UK gritty Northernness. 

They are all what I would call hooligan hardtails, but the Soul's lower frameweight and legendary comfort due to the frame material makes it standout as one of the all time greats. It was originally sold frame only. Riders wanting that sort of bike wanted to choose their favourite options. Mine for example is equipped with 2x10 speed Deore XT drivetrain, Hope Arch wheelset and a Rockshox Reba fork. It also has a dropper seatpost, which makes perfect sense given my intended use. 

The two builds offered on their site are both great. The gold has XT 8000 drivetrain and a Hope Wheelset as the main difference. It has premium brakes. Both bikes have the same fork, but the Silver has Deore brakes and Shimano MT15 wheels. The rest is finishing kit, and none of it is poor.

The Gold will no doubt win in the carpark, but you'd have to be pretty special a rider to justify the extra price tag. The "less than premium" components on the Silver are great to start with. I wouldn't recommend the upgrade for a novice. 

Soul is a premium bike to start with, and of course if you later have money to spare, then you could upgrade to a higher spec over time. 

Have a good hard look at full builds from Bird, On One and Ragley before you push the button.


----------



## RuffDraft (28 Jun 2016)

meta lon said:


> Have a look at Canyon..lot of bike for sensible money.
> extra small will suit your size.
> 
> grand canyon CF6.9 ?
> ...



That looks like a really nice bike! Especially the 8.9! Would you take it over a Soul though? Seems like it has a huge cult following... 



Cubist said:


> The Cotic Soul is a bit of a legend. When they were first produced they kind of broke the mould of hardtail ownership. The hardtail market then was flooded with European style bikes, in two camps. The first was the out and out race thoroughbred with steep head angles, shortish travel suspension (on a 26 inch wheel bike the fork was typically 80 or 100mm travel. ) They were fast, fun and furious, but were a bit hard to tame. The other side of the divide was the trekking bike. In those days Europeans didn't particularly go to ride trail centres, that was a peculiarly British thing, and this part of the market provided an ostensibly similar type of bike to the XC, but more utilitarian, designed for all day riding on fire roads and bridleways. They didn't perform well on sketchy stuff, that was the domain of the full suss XC or trail bikes. People wanted to ride without racing, but they didn't want to be jarred or thrown over the bars of their fast hardtail, and initially led by the full suss side, the All Mountain bike evolved onto the scene. Longer travel, typically 120mm-140mm suspension was making its presence felt, and slacker geometry, meaning that a rider looking down a descent wasn't staring into the abyss.
> 
> UK riders had to be different. They wanted the hardtail, but they also wanted the geometry of the AM bike, and so the hooligan hardtail or AM hardtail was born. British framebuilders led the way, with Ragley, On One and Cotic producing slack hardtails capable of taking a beating, and (eventually) taking long travel forks. The Ragley Bluepig (named after a famous Calderdale descent) may have started the trend, a sturdy cromo steel frame , but their Mmmbop was a similar hardtail in Aluminium. One One went for Chromoly Steel on their 456, having first offered the Inbred. (The 4,5,6 denotes the geometry was suited to a 4", 5" inch or 6" travel fork. ) Cotic produced the BFe (Burly Iron) and then the Soul in Reynolds 853 steel to the same spec. Capable of taking a beating, but weighing much less than the BFe. All the frames share common characteristics, of massive standover clearance, long slack front end, and snappy short rear. Playful, better at going down, but not impossible to ride up. Others have since followed suit, but the original DNA can be traced back to UK gritty Northernness.
> 
> ...



This is the type of breakdown that I'd hoped for - absolutely brilliant! Thank you! 

Repping the North here!  Are you also from the North?

I've also read that FOX is the leading suspension brand? Is Rockshox still good? I also would like a drop post, as it sounds like the best technique is to alter it for downhill? 

Also, what do you make of the tyres and how likely are they to pop on the Silver? I was considering spending extra to get one of the double inner tube stylings that apparently stops punctures somewhat?

It's great that you're also a Soul rider! I think everyone who has one speaks with such passion, which is great! Also read that someone had done 4,000 miles on theirs and it was still running a treat - all things you want to hear with an investment! 

OK - sounds like the perfect plan for me to get the Silver. Would you ever consider swapping your Soul for an On One, Bird or Ragley though? The people who have swapped seemed to regret it in the older threads? Thanks again!!!


----------



## Cubist (28 Jun 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> That looks like a really nice bike! Especially the 8.9! Would you take it over a Soul though? Seems like it has a huge cult following...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've never been a fan of Fox. Rockshox are my favourites, but I also own XFusion and Magura. 

My Soul is here to stay. I've tried it with a 140 fork for hooning, but have put the 120 Reba back on as it's a rounder package. 

The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine. The double tube tyres are an unknown for me


----------



## RuffDraft (28 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> I've never been a fan of Fox. Rockshox are my favourites, but I also own XFusion and Magura.
> 
> My Soul is here to stay. I've tried it with a 140 fork for hooning, but have put the 120 Reba back on as it's a rounder package.
> 
> The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine. The double tube tyres are an unknown for me



Thanks - great to know that it's not Fox or go home! 

Thank you. Would you say that you could run the Soul on regular pavement / tarmac as well? Or is it strictly for the forest trails? 

Thanks again! I'm waiting until the Small frame comes back in stock so I can buy it. Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking? I know as a videographer that you can buy a camera, but then you need lenses, different supports, lighting equipment and before you know it, you're triple your investment (if not worse!)


----------



## Jody (30 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> The tyres, run tubeless, will be fine.



I bang on about it at any given opportunity but can honestly say tubeless is the best thing thats been out for years. Had them set up for 18 months, probably had in the region of 30+ punctures and not one has stopped me or lost any significant pressure when riding.


----------



## Jody (30 Jun 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking?)



How much kit you need is debateable and depends on how prepared you want to be plus where you are riding. Minimum for me is helmet, gloves, a good mini tool and a tenner if local. Any further field or remote riding is camel back, bit of snap, spare tube (just incase), patches, some carry a replacement mech hanger and I will soon be making a first aid kit in a water bottle for emergency (foil blanket, medical and gaffer tape, bandages, asprin etc)

Clothes depend on style, be it baggy or lycra. Padded shorts are a must for longer rides, a decent waterproof coat for winter, base layers etc

No matter how much you have now there is always something else on the list. I never thought £25+ on one pair of waterproof socks would be anything other than a waste of money, but used on a cold wet day they have completely changed my mind.


----------



## Cubist (30 Jun 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Thanks - great to know that it's not Fox or go home!
> 
> Thank you. Would you say that you could run the Soul on regular pavement / tarmac as well? Or is it strictly for the forest trails?
> 
> Thanks again! I'm waiting until the Small frame comes back in stock so I can buy it. Would you recommend any particular helmets / gloves or other accessories that are a must when going biking? I know as a videographer that you can buy a camera, but then you need lenses, different supports, lighting equipment and before you know it, you're triple your investment (if not worse!)


The Soul will run on tarmac, of course, but you'll need to play with tyre pressures. Run tubeless, those Contis are extremely grippy on hard pack trail and looser surfaces. They tend to run between 20 and 30 psi depending on rider weight and preference, and have a design limit of about 40 psi thanks to the rims. They will be draggy on tarmac.

As for kit, well, there are loads of bargains to be had, or you could be bent over for your life savings if you choose to follow fad and fashion. MTB is one area where "helmet" is not a dirty word. You need protection, and MTB specific helmets have lower backs, different peaks and vents. Look at stuff like the Bell Super, Giro Xsar POC, Cat, etc. Loads of choice, but head shape differs. What looks cool in the shop may be a hefty, chafing, glasses-nudging hindrance on the trail. Try before you buy. You don't need to spend the earth, but even sizes aren't all that reliable. 

Gloves. I like MTB specific ones with finger protection. I found d that cheaper gloves especially mitts, chafe the web between finger and thumb due to all the gear changing you do. Look at 661, my personal favourites. Vital protection especially in a spill, and you will fall off. 

Shorts. Baggies are de rigeur and practical. Roadies don't need pockets, but you do....maps, phone, fags. Reinforced crotch but no chunky seams. I like Endura, but others are out there. Padded undershorts, again my preference is for bibshorts. 

Loose, but not baggy tops, and a decent waterproof jacket. Here's where you get what you pay for. If you're charging up an incline in a boil in the bag bargain you'll curse your shopping habits for the entire ride. I personally like to wear a weather resistant windproof over a good base layer, and if I get wet I know I've got a change of clothes in the car. On an all day epic though you need a quality waterproof. Gore, Paramo, Rab, Endura, all breathable to varying degrees. 

Knee pads. Flexible, all day com fort if you choose properly. You will fall off, and you will hurt your legs. Look at 661 Veggies, Fox etc etc. 

Finally glasses. You're going to get bits of debris and vegetation thrown at you. Your choice, especially if you already wear specs, but look for vented lenses to help with fogging. 


As @Jody says, a decent small pack for tool kit and spare clothes/ tubes and a pump. With a reservoir, or use it to carry a drinks bottle.


----------



## RuffDraft (30 Jun 2016)

Jody said:


> I bang on about it at any given opportunity but can honestly say tubeless is the best thing thats been out for years. Had them set up for 18 months, probably had in the region of 30+ punctures and not one has stopped me or lost any significant pressure when riding.



Do tubeless come as standard with the Cotic Soul? If not, should I buy tubeless 27.5" tyres? Recommend any? Will they match up with the Shimano MT15 wheels? 

They sound incredible! I'm aware that I have a lot of learning to do where bikes are concerned. Appreciate the help. 



Jody said:


> How much kit you need is debateable and depends on how prepared you want to be plus where you are riding. Minimum for me is helmet, gloves, a good mini tool and a tenner if local. Any further field or remote riding is camel back, bit of snap, spare tube (just incase), patches, some carry a replacement mech hanger and I will soon be making a first aid kit in a water bottle for emergency (foil blanket, medical and gaffer tape, bandages, asprin etc)
> 
> Clothes depend on style, be it baggy or lycra. Padded shorts are a must for longer rides, a decent waterproof coat for winter, base layers etc
> 
> No matter how much you have now there is always something else on the list. I never thought £25+ on one pair of waterproof socks would be anything other than a waste of money, but used on a cold wet day they have completely changed my mind.



Sounds like it IS like photography haha! That's what I'm aware of... so £1650 for the bike, plus £300 for extra kit should do it. I'll get the best gloves, helmet and mini toolkit I can afford / best comfort etc. for now, as well as a waterproof coat and go from there. Thanks a lot! 



Cubist said:


> The Soul will run on tarmac, of course, but you'll need to play with tyre pressures. Run tubeless, those Contis are extremely grippy on hard pack trail and looser surfaces. They tend to run between 20 and 30 psi depending on rider weight and preference, and have a design limit of about 40 psi thanks to the rims. They will be draggy on tarmac.



Thanks Cubist! I will have to look more into how to make the tyres run better on tarmac then should I wish to go out and have some fun in the local area. Will the tyres always be draggy on tarmac or will I find a nice medium by playing with the tyre pressures?



Cubist said:


> As for kit, well, there are loads of bargains to be had, or you could be bent over for your life savings if you choose to follow fad and fashion. MTB is one area where "helmet" is not a dirty word. You need protection, and MTB specific helmets have lower backs, different peaks and vents. Look at stuff like the Bell Super, Giro Xsar POC, Cat, etc. Loads of choice, but head shape differs. What looks cool in the shop may be a hefty, chafing, glasses-nudging hindrance on the trail. Try before you buy. You don't need to spend the earth, but even sizes aren't all that reliable.



Thanks for the tips on the brand names and the shape of mountain bike helmets! I'll be sure to try before I buy. I'm not too bothered about being fashionable when I'm riding. I don't tend to take too much pride in the way I look, much more so that I'm comfortable and prepared. 



Cubist said:


> Gloves. I like MTB specific ones with finger protection. I found d that cheaper gloves especially mitts, chafe the web between finger and thumb due to all the gear changing you do. Look at 661, my personal favourites. Vital protection especially in a spill, and you will fall off.



I'll get those - I'm simply in the mood to get it, rather than do a tonne of research. At the end of the day, experienced riders will know more than any research that I do! 



Cubist said:


> Shorts. Baggies are de rigeur and practical. Roadies don't need pockets, but you do....maps, phone, fags. Reinforced crotch but no chunky seams. I like Endura, but others are out there. Padded undershorts, again my preference is for bibshorts.
> 
> Loose, but not baggy tops, and a decent waterproof jacket. Here's where you get what you pay for. If you're charging up an incline in a boil in the bag bargain you'll curse your shopping habits for the entire ride. I personally like to wear a weather resistant windproof over a good base layer, and if I get wet I know I've got a change of clothes in the car. On an all day epic though you need a quality waterproof. Gore, Paramo, Rab, Endura, all breathable to varying degrees.
> 
> ...



Thank you! Amazing post! Do they do glasses that I can put my perscription in? I need glasses to see far. 

As @Jody says, a decent small pack for tool kit and spare clothes/ tubes and a pump. With a reservoir, or use it to carry a drinks bottle.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!!! 

---

So, are we all in agreement that I should get the Cotic Soul?! I've read on mbr.com that the Whyte 901 is the best and £500 cheaper? Is that because the Cotic is an older model and therefore, it is often forgotten about?


----------



## Cubist (30 Jun 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Do tubeless come as standard with the Cotic Soul? If not, should I buy tubeless 27.5" tyres? Recommend any? Will they match up with the Shimano MT15 wheels?
> 
> They sound incredible! I'm aware that I have a lot of learning to do where bikes are concerned. Appreciate the help.
> 
> ...





---



> So, are we all in agreement that I should get the Cotic Soul?! I've read on mbr.com that the Whyte 901 is the best and £500 cheaper? Is that because the Cotic is an older model and therefore, it is often forgotten about?


You're welcome. The Whyte is no doubt an awesome bike, and great VFM. It's alu though, and it ain't a Soul!

Whereabouts are you? If you want to throw a leg over my oldskool 26 wheel Soul you're welcome. I'm in Huddersfield.


----------



## Cubist (30 Jun 2016)

The trail kings can be run tubeless. Ask Cotic to make sure when you order that they've set them up tubneless for you or whether they've tubed them. I doubt they will have. Good grippy tyres off road will be, almost without exception, compromised on tarmac. Don't get rid of those Contis though, they really are a premium tyre. 

Forgot to say, you'll also need pedals. Get some decent pinned pedals like Superstar Components Nano thru pins or Shimano Saints. DMR V8s or the Wellgo copies are also good. Ordinary trainers or a pair of flat soled skate shoes from Sports Direct are as good a start as any. You an get MTB specific ones, or go for SPD type pedals and shoes if your confidence grows.


----------



## RuffDraft (30 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> ---
> You're welcome. The Whyte is no doubt an awesome bike, and great VFM. It's alu though, and it ain't a Soul!
> 
> Whereabouts are you? If you want to throw a leg over my oldskool 26 wheel Soul you're welcome. I'm in Huddersfield.



Sweet! Just what I needed to hear! I wondered why there were many rave reviews of it, when it was a lot cheaper. Glad that there's a difference with the Soul! 

Thanks very much for offering, but I'm near Liverpool - an hour and a half away! I think I should be sound with buying one now? I'll just follow their size chart and measure myself and go from there? Maybe when I have my bike we can meet up for a spin once I'm not terrible?! Haha! 

I think I have all the information I need? I'm considering going on a course to learn the basics, and then go from there. Do you find yourselves going for a bike ride alone often? I am intending to make one day of the week, bike day. I'm going part time in my career job, as I am also running a business, so I think I can dedicate one morning drive out to a place and then bike for a few hours and return home to work in the afternoon.


----------



## RuffDraft (30 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> The trail kings can be run tubeless. Ask Cotic to make sure when you order that they've set them up tubneless for you or whether they've tubed them. I doubt they will have. Good grippy tyres off road will be, almost without exception, compromised on tarmac. Don't get rid of those Contis though, they really are a premium tyre.
> 
> Forgot to say, you'll also need pedals. Get some decent pinned pedals like Superstar Components Nano thru pins or Shimano Saints. DMR V8s or the Wellgo copies are also good. Ordinary trainers or a pair of flat soled skate shoes from Sports Direct are as good a start as any. You an get MTB specific ones, or go for SPD type pedals and shoes if your confidence grows.



Thanks Cubist! So basically, get the Soul, but always ride off road to avoid damaging the tyres!  

Thanks! Yeah, my brother has had many falls on the bike pedals he has, but has since become a much better rider. I don't see him very often though, as he lives down south. I am quite stoked to get a bike! Cotic says that they are hoping to get the bikes back in stock by the end of July. Might put my order in before to ensure that I get the bike and it doesn't become sold out again!


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Do you find yourselves going for a bike ride alone often?



I would say my time is split 70/30 with mates and loan riding. We are at that point in life where kids and her indoors mean we can't always get out for rides together. A lone ride in the peaks is a wonderful thing if you need time to think and reflect, although if the riding is gnarly or remote try to ride at 70-80% of your ability and don't take excessive risks as there is no backup if anything goes wrong.


----------



## Cubist (1 Jul 2016)

Jody said:


> I would say my time is split 70/30 with mates and loan riding. We are at that point in life where kids and her indoors mean we can't always get out for rides together. A lone ride in the peaks is a wonderful thing if you need time to think and reflect, although if the riding is gnarly or remote try to ride at 70-80% of your ability and don't take excessive risks as there is no backup if anything goes wrong.


I plot a course on an OS Map and leave a copy at home with rough ETA etc. If you ride on your own a lot, a phone finder/tracker app may be a good (if slightly power hungry) addition.


----------



## RuffDraft (1 Jul 2016)

Thanks everyone! I'll head off and do some more research and then when it's back in stock and I buy it, I'll return to let you know how I'm getting on - first ride to tenth ride etc! Really excited! I went to Halfords just to look at bikes yesterday - didn't want any there - but just wanted to be a part of it. There's a really great bike shop nearby. I'm going to hear there at some point too!


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Sounds like it IS like photography haha! That's what I'm aware of... so £1650 for the bike, plus £300 for extra kit should do it. I'll get the best gloves, helmet and mini toolkit I can afford / best comfort etc. for now, as well as a waterproof coat and go from there. Thanks a lot!



You dont have to go excessive on kit. A good multi tool is £20ish, gloves £15-20, picked a £130 Polaris waterproof for £40. It depends, like Cubist pointed out how much you are willing to spend but it can all be done on a budget without looking like a cheap skate. Get a few basics, go for a ride and see what you need from there.


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

Cubist said:


> I plot a course on an OS Map and leave a copy at home with rough ETA etc. If you ride on your own a lot, a phone finder/tracker app may be a good (if slightly power hungry) addition.



I'm never that organised and if out on my own I normally have no set route. Although I have an SOS type app that can pinpoint your location and call 999 for you and a location type app for her indoors, but as always depends on signal/battery.


----------



## RuffDraft (1 Jul 2016)

Jody said:


> You dont have to go excessive on kit. A good multi tool is £20ish, gloves £15-20, picked a £130 Polaris waterproof for £40. It depends, like Cubist pointed out it depends how much you are willing to spend but it can all be done on a budget without looking like a cheap skate. Get a few basics, go for a ride and see what you need from there.



Thanks! Do you know if they do glasses for riders, or am I better off just wearing my usual glasses for a ride? 

Will do! Shame the bike isn't in stock. I will get it once it is! Then I can't wait to go for a ride!


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Thanks! Do you know if they do glasses for riders, or am I better off just wearing my usual glasses for a ride?
> 
> Will do! Shame the bike isn't in stock. I will get it once it is! Then I can't wait to go for a ride!



You can have prescription put into Oakleys and other glasses but don't know how much it would cost. My other half is an optician so could ask her what the high street stores can offer you but I don't wear glasses myself.


----------



## RuffDraft (1 Jul 2016)

Jody said:


> You can have prescription put into Oakleys and other glasses but don't know how much it would cost. My other half is an optician so could ask her what the high street stores can offer you but I don't wear glasses myself.



That would be amazing if you could? 

How long have you guys been riding? 

Ever done any courses like day rides with teachers???


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> How long have you guys been riding?
> 
> Ever done any courses like day rides with teachers???



Difficult one to quantify. Riding MTB soley for about 18 years if you exclude the break from cycling when I thought cars ruled and excersize didn't.

I have never done a skills course but wouldn't mind going on one. I don't have a problem with the basics (wheelies, manuals, bunny hops etc) but would like to brush up in a few areas. If your new to MTB there will be a lot to learn and it could save you a trip to hospital for the sake of £60-100ish


----------



## RuffDraft (1 Jul 2016)

Jody said:


> Difficult one to quantify. Riding MTB soley for about 18 years if you exclude the break from cycling when I thought cars ruled and excersize didn't.
> 
> I have never done a skills course but wouldn't mind going on one. I don't have a problem with the basics (wheelies, manuals, bunny hops etc) but would like to brush up in a few areas. If your new to MTB there will be a lot to learn and it could save you a trip to hospital for the sake of £60-100ish



That's my thoughts exactly! 

I'm hoping that it's possible to do trails and not get injured. I need to be mobile for my business as a videographer, but I don't want to be a lazy person who does very little exercise, as that's just as bad! 

Definitely going to do a few courses over the summer! I haven't done wheelies or bunny hope before, but have been watching tutorials on YouTube. 

Do you also have a Coltic Soul, or do you have another love? 

I think it's great that you've been riding solo for 18 years - that's where I want to be. Going to take a GoPro out with me, and that'll heighten my interests even more!


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

Current bike is a Giant Anthem which is a comfy all day XC full suss. It rides well and does most of what I need to do on it. Its not good for big hits or long drops but neither are my bones these days so it suits me fine. 

You will be fine riding trails with a few basics but just remember to ride inside your comfort zone. The are no rewards for heroics, so if you don't feel comfortable riding what you can see, get off and push it past the obstacle.


----------



## RuffDraft (1 Jul 2016)

Jody said:


> Current bike is a Giant Anthem which is a comfy all day XC full suss. It rides well and does most of what I need to do on it. Its not good for big hits or long drops but neither are my bones these days so it suits me fine.
> 
> You will be fine riding trails with a few basics but just remember to ride inside your comfort zone. The are no rewards for heroics, so if you don't feel comfortable riding what you can see, get off and push it past the obstacle.



I will thanks! Am I definitely right in getting a hard tail over a full suss for riding trails etc and considering my budget of £2,000? 

Your bike sounds ace! Will Google it when I can!


----------



## Cubist (1 Jul 2016)

If you fancy a skills course, get in touch with One Planet at Llandegla. Theyll see you right I'd have thought. 
As for glasses, I wear varicofocals and priced up some Oakley's with my prescription. About 300 quid lenses only. I haven't ordered them, as I'm still waiting for six numbers to come up. Specsavers do some cheaper ones with inserts, may be worth asking them.


----------



## Cubist (1 Jul 2016)

As for whether you're doing the right thing, I've had plenty of different bikes. The Soul is an icon, but isn't necessarily the best bike for a novice. What you don't know yet is whether you'll prefer a hard tail to a susser. You aren't limited by the bike to different types of trail, but your approach will be. @Jody 's Anthem is a cracking bike, so was my old Canyon Nerve, the and if I want full on bouncy stuff the Ibis is my go-to bike. A Soul is many things to many people. They were built with 100 mm forks and light kit as XC bikes, or 150s for out and out hooliganism. You've been bitten by the marketing or some sage advice, take your pick. With a 120 (sweetspot) fork and that gearing, the Silver is a bit of an all-rounder. It will last you forever. Whether its the last bike you ever own is a question only you will answer. You're lucky to have that sort of money as a starting budget...... after all, you could learn to ride on a 200 quid second hander and take your time choosing. I'm not trying to put you off, but your enthusiasm is almost breathtaking! 

Why not look for a used Soul via Pink bike or Single track world? You never know, you might hate it, but used you'll get most of your money back.


----------



## Jody (1 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> I will thanks! Am I definitely right in getting a hard tail over a full suss for riding trails etc and considering my budget of £2,000?



Its horses for courses and only you can make that decision. Everybody has their own reasons for buying the type of bike they do, having weighed up where you ride, your style of riding, weight, comfort, spec, travel of suspension, maintanance and anything else that crops up.


----------



## RuffDraft (2 Jul 2016)

Cubist said:


> If you fancy a skills course, get in touch with One Planet at Llandegla. Theyll see you right I'd have thought.
> As for glasses, I wear varicofocals and priced up some Oakley's with my prescription. About 300 quid lenses only. I haven't ordered them, as I'm still waiting for six numbers to come up. Specsavers do some cheaper ones with inserts, may be worth asking them.



Super - I just looked up and they have one on September 3rd. Think I'll book it as soon as I have my bike. 

Haha! OK. Thanks! Do you ride with just your normal glasses then? I did when I was away the week before last, and didn't find them to be too hazardous, but having looked at the trails in my area, I think I'd be better off getting a decent pair. 



Cubist said:


> As for whether you're doing the right thing, I've had plenty of different bikes. The Soul is an icon, but isn't necessarily the best bike for a novice. What you don't know yet is whether you'll prefer a hard tail to a susser. You aren't limited by the bike to different types of trail, but your approach will be. @Jody 's Anthem is a cracking bike, so was my old Canyon Nerve, the and if I want full on bouncy stuff the Ibis is my go-to bike. A Soul is many things to many people. They were built with 100 mm forks and light kit as XC bikes, or 150s for out and out hooliganism. You've been bitten by the marketing or some sage advice, take your pick. With a 120 (sweetspot) fork and that gearing, the Silver is a bit of an all-rounder. It will last you forever. Whether its the last bike you ever own is a question only you will answer. You're lucky to have that sort of money as a starting budget...... after all, you could learn to ride on a 200 quid second hander and take your time choosing. I'm not trying to put you off, but your enthusiasm is almost breathtaking!
> 
> Why not look for a used Soul via Pink bike or Single track world? You never know, you might hate it, but used you'll get most of your money back.



Great advice! Yeah, I know what you mean. Will take a further look into full suss vs hardtail, but do think I'll be happy with the Soul, and would use it as my only bike long term, as that's what I'm looking for before I get a mortgage and all that. I am lucky at the moment, as I'm working full time teacher and also gaining from three years of investing into videography and producing quite a lot of wedding films. The money from both being paired is ace, but the amount of work is anything but. Sometimes living off three hours sleep. I just need to relax my mind now and let the business take over as I go to part time. It'll give me the best life to work ratio doing the biking... and if it's one thing that I've learned from cameras / lenses / tripods / sliders / gimbals etc. it's that you get what you pay for. That's both in terms of investing in your education, as well as the equipment side. That's why I'm keen to get a great bike starting out, and then just adding to it if necessary at a later date, but also learning from educated bikers and mastering the basics as quickly as possible to stay out of the hospital. 

From what I've read about full suss, and the complexity of the design to the components used, I am much more inclined to go with the hardtail. Seems more robust and I'd rather have a classic bike that's been loved by many over a compromised full suspension bike that I'll likely damage long term. 

Is there any reason why a novice may struggle with a Soul? 



Jody said:


> Its horses for courses and only you can make that decision. Everybody has their own reasons for buying the type of bike they do, having weighed up where you ride, your style of riding, weight, comfort, spec, travel of suspension, maintanance and anything else that crops up.



Thanks Jody. Having looked around my area, these places seem the most likely that I'll be riding: 

Delamere Forest - do trail rides on a Thursday night with the bike shop - show you different routes to take
Rivington Pike
Bickerstaffe Cycle Track
Lee Quarry MTB Trails (easier side of it!) 
And the one everyone seems to recommend here, Coed Llandegal Trail Centre

After reading an article of hardtail vs full suss, it does look like a hardtail would suit me a lot more... I'd prefer it going uphill, and think for its robustness, it'll be a better investment and help me to become a better rider over relying on full suss to help me out.


----------



## Cubist (2 Jul 2016)

RuffDraft said:


> Is there any reason why a novice may struggle with a Soul?



Not at all. Bikes are a simple enough design, and there's little to go wrong. My mental mind map of bike ownership started a long time ago with a much smaller budget, and to me the Soul is "the last hardtail I'm ever likely to own". I bought the frame then set about building it with what was in the spares box, plus one or two treats. Since then it's evolved from an SLX 2x10 drivetrain with a DIY double and bash, upgrading as I could afford to lavish more an more on it and in the very near future it's going 1x10 with a Hope spiderless crank. It now has Hope Arch Ex wheelset,, a Reverb dropper, wide carbon bars, stubby stem, tubeless Schwalbe Nobby Nics and XT brakes. I suppose I was fearful of criticism for recommending a novice to spend a fortune on a niche hardtail. Having read your reasoning it's hard to argue with it. If you can afford the pricetag, the bike will be ideal. 



RuffDraft said:


> Haha! OK. Thanks! Do you ride with just your normal glasses then? I did when I was away the week before last, and didn't find them to be too hazardous, but having looked at the trails in my area, I think I'd be better off getting a decent pair.



If I'm navigating I need the varifocals to read the Garmin. If I'm "hooning" (mincing like a 52 year old with osteoarthritis ) I have some plano Oakleys which won't cost me as much to replace.


----------



## RuffDraft (2 Jul 2016)

Cubist said:


> Not at all. Bikes are a simple enough design, and there's little to go wrong. My mental mind map of bike ownership started a long time ago with a much smaller budget, and to me the Soul is "the last hardtail I'm ever likely to own". I bought the frame then set about building it with what was in the spares box, plus one or two treats. Since then it's evolved from an SLX 2x10 drivetrain with a DIY double and bash, upgrading as I could afford to lavish more an more on it and in the very near future it's going 1x10 with a Hope spiderless crank. It now has Hope Arch Ex wheelset,, a Reverb dropper, wide carbon bars, stubby stem, tubeless Schwalbe Nobby Nics and XT brakes. I suppose I was fearful of criticism for recommending a novice to spend a fortune on a niche hardtail. Having read your reasoning it's hard to argue with it. If you can afford the pricetag, the bike will be ideal.
> 
> If I'm navigating I need the varifocals to read the Garmin. If I'm "hooning" (mincing like a 52 year old with osteoarthritis ) I have some plano Oakleys which won't cost me as much to replace.



Do you take a SatNav with you on the trail?! 

Hahaha do you have osteoarthritis?! (What am I getting myself into?!) 

Sounds good on the glasses! 

That's really cool... that's kinda where I wanna be - with the best I'm going to ever own too. I read the review on the suspension that comes with the Soul, and it got 4/5 stars.. they didn't seem to praise it a lot, as apparently it was a bit soft yady yada... I think bike reviewers are quite harsh!  

Thanks Cubist! Really helpful! I have no idea what you've adapted to the bike - everything sounds quite complex to be honest! I was going to upgrade the handle bars to the £100 extra option, and then leave it at that! Spend £250 on extras, as well as a boot hanger for the bike and then I'll be set. Ever ridden any of the trails I mentioned?


----------



## Cubist (2 Jul 2016)

Only take GPS to a trail centre to record times. If I'm offroad on bridleways etc I use the GPS to navigate. Yes, I need a new right hip, (cam impingement) and am currently waiting for a soft tissue injury to heal before I can have one. It's made me retire early as it won't be done before my retirement date. 

I like Llandegla a lot. The red and blacks are great fun, though I've never ridden the blue, it'll be great fun. There's a skills area too which is ideal.


----------



## RuffDraft (2 Jul 2016)

Cubist said:


> Only take GPS to a trail centre to record times. If I'm offroad on bridleways etc I use the GPS to navigate. Yes, I need a new right hip, (cam impingement) and am currently waiting for a soft tissue injury to heal before I can have one. It's made me retire early as it won't be done before my retirement date.
> 
> I like Llandegla a lot. The red and blacks are great fun, though I've never ridden the blue, it'll be great fun. There's a skills area too which is ideal.



Ah man, sorry to hear. That from biking? Hopefully you'll be OK and the soft tissue will repair itself quite quickly. 

Yeah, I think it sounds awesome! I doubt I'll be ready for the Red for a while.. does it take a while to move up to Red? Whinlatter Forest also looks good!


----------

