# Social media forces cyclist-doorer to fess up



## Shut Up Legs (18 Mar 2014)

Two days ago, a female cyclist was riding legally along a bike lane in Collins St, Melbourne, and got caught by a an opened car door when some passengers exited a taxi.

This particular cyclist is a regular on two Australian cycling forums, and she's mentioned previously that there isn't any real alternative for her commute home but Collins St, even though its pathetic excuse for a "bicycle lane" is only about 2 feet wide at most. Riding in primary position in the main traffic lane could be justified, given how impractical the bike lane is, because our laws allow cyclists to avoid bike lanes if they're impractical to use for any reason. However, this isn't really an option here, because sitting behind car exhaust pipes while these cars crawl along a congested, narrow street is very unhealthy.

She posted her helmet-camera video of the incident:


This shows that the attitude of the taxi passengers was less than ideal. Fortunately, the subsequent publicity has made it impossible for them to remain anonymous, and (at least) one of them is now discussing the incident with the Police . I love it when the social media effect kicks in - this incident has been reported in mainstream newspapers in most Australian states, some Facebook pages, Reddit, the BNA and BN forums and other cycling forums, etc., and now these 3 guys faces have a fair bit of internet publicity.

I was feeling pretty angry at these guys, and I'm still upset that it actually takes a helmet-camera video and considerable publicity to get some people to admit they've made a mistake . As one person put it: regardless of whether he felt that he'd done anything wrong or not, if the guy who'd opened the taxi door into the cyclist's path had simply done the right thing and exchanged contact details, he would have gotten away with relatively minor consequences, perhaps just the approx. $350 fine for dooring. Instead, he's given his employer (and of course, himself) some very bad publicity, so that will cost him in other ways.

Of course, many of the comments on the various forums and online news sites reporting this incident are less than sympathetic, but that's what you get with social media: disagreements come with the package, and some people are well-informed while others are astoundingly ignorant. But at least it achieved one thing: it forced the taxi passenger to do the right thing and contact the Police .


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Mar 2014)

What a great attitude she showed, calm yet persistent while those guys dug themselves deeper and deeper. Good on her. I hope she gets settled for any damage or injury.

GC


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## Archie_tect (18 Mar 2014)

I liked her reaction to where Melbourne is!
"Melbourne... er, Melbourne....???....Australia!"


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Mar 2014)

victor said:


> it forced the taxi passenger to do the right thing and contact the Police



Is this admission reported anywhere you can link to?

GC


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## Shut Up Legs (18 Mar 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Is this admission reported anywhere you can link to?
> GC


Definitely:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...in-melbourne-cbd/story-fni0fit3-1226858494337
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...olice-over-cbd-cardooring-20140319-35146.html


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## glenn forger (18 Mar 2014)

A grown man injures a young lady and walks away shrugging.


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## benb (19 Mar 2014)

Wtf is that pathetic excuse for a cycle lane?


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## slowmotion (19 Mar 2014)

The bully was straight out of Central Casting. Was he "between jobs?"


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## Hotchilidamo (19 Mar 2014)

To be fair the guy has no way to tell if anyone is coming. If he was sat in the front he'd have a mirror to use, but in the backseat it's almost impossible to tell. Personally I wouldn't ride on the inside on that cycle lane. But that's not excusing the attitude he showed afterwards. If anyone should pay it should be the council for creating such a pathetic cycle lane


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## subaqua (19 Mar 2014)

benb said:


> Wtf is that pathetic excuse for a cycle lane?



its not a cycle lane if you read the newsreports and the green party and transport ministers quotes. 

I would probably have ridden it but covered the brakes. and then chinned them .


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Mar 2014)

She's clearly a class act and dealt with it brilliantly. I'd have probably chinned the young one if he told me to "**** off" like that.

"The line markings are intended to encourage drivers to stay to the right of cyclists that are using this road space." Classic paint as infrastructure meaningless bolloxology; I'm comforted it isn't just West Sussex County Council that come up with this BS.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Mar 2014)

Hotchilidamo said:


> To be fair the guy has no way to tell if anyone is coming. If he was sat in the front he'd have a mirror to use, but in the backseat it's almost impossible to tell.


To be fair, that's nonsense,


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Mar 2014)

User13710 said:


> You don't really believe that do you? How about turning round and looking before he opened the door?


Limited mobility of neck due to pie habit?


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## MikeG (19 Mar 2014)

The thing that astonishes me is that, irrespective of right or wrong, no-one showed any sympathy for someone who had just been dumped on the tarmac. Isn't your first reaction to ask if the person is OK?


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Mar 2014)

MikeG said:


> The thing that astonishes me is that, irrespective of right or wrong, no-one showed any sympathy for someone who had just been dumped on the tarmac. Isn't your first reaction to ask if the person is OK?


Cyclist = untermensch the world over.


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## User6179 (19 Mar 2014)

Hotchilidamo said:


> To be fair the guy has no way to tell if anyone is coming. If he was sat in the front he'd have a mirror to use, but in the backseat it's almost impossible to tell. Personally I wouldn't ride on the inside on that cycle lane. But that's not excusing the attitude he showed afterwards. If anyone should pay it should be the council for creating such a pathetic cycle lane



What about looking out the big see-thru thing in the back of the taxi, think its called a window


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## rualexander (19 Mar 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> I liked her reaction to where Melbourne is!
> "Melbourne... er, Melbourne....???....Australia!"


Actually she says "Melbourne, Victoria"


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## Archie_tect (19 Mar 2014)

Taxi draws up at kerb, taxi driver says we're here... you're not familiar with where you are because you're in a taxi, so you hastily open the door to get out because you do that in taxis, you wouldn't even think to look behind you before getting out on the kerbside.... if anyone is at fault it's the taxi driver, after all he knows where he is and has the mirrors to look to check there isn't a cyclist there- he should have shouted a warning... careful there may be a cyclist, wait a minute.... 

The passengers' initial reaction was odd though, most people would be horrified and check someone on the ground was OK and apologise even if it wasn't necessarily their fault... after the initial shock they just showed ignorance and deserve the stigma.

The cyclists should never have ridden up the inside of a taxi stopping at the kerb, it's an idiotic thing to do... OK there's a foot wide 'cycle lane' there but that doesn't give her automatic rights over something in front of her... she could hardly get through the gap so she should've gone round it would have been safer and sensible.


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## Archie_tect (19 Mar 2014)

rualexander said:


> Actually she says "Melbourne, Victoria"


Does she... I stand corrected.


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## Shut Up Legs (19 Mar 2014)

subaqua said:


> its not a cycle lane if you read the newsreports and the green party and transport ministers quotes.
> 
> I would probably have ridden it but covered the brakes. and then chinned them .


Even if it was properly signed according to our road rules, it would still be fairly impractical to use safely, and would thus give any cyclist ample justification to use the lane next to it. Of course, that has its drawbacks too, such as being stuck behind slow-moving cars and breathing in the cr#p that some cars spew out of their exhaust pipes. Collins St, Melbourne definitely isn't very cyclist-friendly.


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## Hotchilidamo (19 Mar 2014)

Wow a lot of hostility to my comment there. If you stop one second and look at it from a taxi passenger's perspective, he probably hasn't been paying attention to the road markings, he's probably been busy talking to colleagues in the back of the cab, the cabbie says you may as well get out here guys the traffic is bad, he opens the door. Its a fairly innocent mistake if you put yourself in the his shoes. Sure he should have looked but I can understand why he didn't and I don't think that should be so hard for anyone to see. 

His actions after the event are not good and I'm not defending that

A bit worrying you guys can only see one perspective here and not the whole picture


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## benb (19 Mar 2014)

Hotchilidamo said:


> Wow a lot of hostility to my comment there. If you stop one second and look at it from a taxi passenger's perspective, he probably hasn't been paying attention to the road markings, he's probably been busy talking to colleagues in the back of the cab, the cabbie says you may as well get out here guys the traffic is bad, he opens the door. Its a fairly innocent mistake if you put yourself in the his shoes. Sure he should have looked but I can understand why he didn't and I don't think that should be so hard for anyone to see.
> 
> His actions after the event are not good and I'm not defending that
> 
> A bit worrying you guys can only see one perspective here and not the whole picture



It's the responsibility of anyone opening a car door to check that it's safe.


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## glasgowcyclist (19 Mar 2014)

Hotchilidamo said:


> Wow a lot of hostility to my comment there.


 
No there wasn't. People disagreed with you and offered practical suggestions as to how the passenger might have avoided hitting the cyclist. 
Even you accept that he should have looked.

GC


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## sazzaa (19 Mar 2014)

I'm wondering if the taxi should have stopped closer to the kerb to let people out? As in, waited until it was clear then dropped passengers off safely instead of dumping them in the middle of the road? Yes he'd be blocking whatever that lane is supposed to be, but surely it's the safer option?


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## Ruthie (19 Mar 2014)

Cycle lanes. Encouraging overtaking on the inside since 19**.


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## glasgowcyclist (19 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2985027, member: 259"]There's absolutely no way I'd have ridden up a tiny narrow gap between the kerb and a taxi that was indicating and halting, [/QUOTE]

I don't see the taxi indicating, and it remains out in the line of traffic queuing for the lights. 

GC


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## algo (19 Mar 2014)

the man now appears mildly apologetic, no doubt devastated that this bit of media attention accidentally publicised his business... aside from any issues about who exactly is to blame, I really think the cyclist in question was very calm. Perhaps Mr Hunter would like to show how calm he is after falling off a bike?


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## steveindenmark (19 Mar 2014)

There is a big difference between making a mistake and being rude.

She made a mistake. Even if that is a cycle path I would not have gone through that gap. The taxi driver made a big mistake. If he had done that in the UK he would be possibly committing an offence, if there was injury or damage. The guys were just arxeholes. 

How could it have been avoided? Simple by the taxi driver pulling right over to the kerb and blocking the alleged cycle path...shock...horror.

It is common and accepted practice when coming up to lights in Denmark. The cars pull over to the right and it stops cyclists sneaking down the Inside. It sounds bad but works well. In 11 years I have not seen any cyclists complain about it.

But she had a great attitude. If it had been a guy it would have been swearing and punches...well this man anyway.

Ride like a woman.

Steve


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## fossyant (19 Mar 2014)

algo said:


> the man now appears mildly apologetic, no doubt devastated that this bit of media attention accidentally publicised his business... aside from any issues about who exactly is to blame, I really think the cyclist in question was very calm. Perhaps Mr Hunter would like to show how calm he is after falling off a bike?


 
Don't be daft, you can see he hasn't been on a bike, he has the physique of a telly tubby. 

To be frank, I've got the opinion it's not worth talking to twunts like that. All three needed d-locking !


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

Just my 2 cents but I think all taxis should be fitted with passenger doors auto locking and the driver should unlock and allow passengers to exit when he feels its safe . He has the advantage of mirrors to view the rear . Not saying this passenger wasn't an arse but it could eliminate some dooring accidents


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## subaqua (19 Mar 2014)

Hotchilidamo said:


> Wow a lot of hostility to my comment there. If you stop one second and look at it from a taxi passenger's perspective, he probably hasn't been paying attention to the road markings, he's probably been busy talking to colleagues in the back of the cab, the cabbie says you may as well get out here guys the traffic is bad, he opens the door. Its a fairly *innocent mistake if you put yourself in the his shoes*. Sure he should have looked but I can understand why he didn't and I don't think that should be so hard for anyone to see.
> 
> His actions after the event are not good and I'm not defending that
> 
> A bit worrying you guys can only see one perspective here and not the whole picture


 

Not hard to do a shoulder check before exiting a vehicle. my dad taught me to do that when i was about 6 or 7 and my 6 yr old looks before he opens. I still shoulder check whatever vehicle I am in and am far from Mr Perfect.

that said his actions afterwards are a good example of how not to behave


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## Tim Hall (19 Mar 2014)

Top tip: Open the car door with your inboard hand (left hand on a right door, right hand on a left door). You'll have to turn in your seat to do it and end up looking behind you/into the eyes of the cyclist you're about to door. Spread the word.


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## glasgowcyclist (19 Mar 2014)

algo said:


> the man now appears mildly apologetic, no doubt devastated that this bit of media attention accidentally publicised his business... aside from any issues about who exactly is to blame, I really think the cyclist in question was very calm. Perhaps Mr Hunter would like to show how calm he is after falling off a bike?


 
What a deluded and uncaring oaf that man is. He doesn't remotely apologise for dooring her, only for his attitude afterwards.

Listen to what he says:
_"I reacted very badly afterwards, she got my back up. The thing I did wrong was how I reacted afterwards, for that I apologise.
She definitely came on very aggressive. Probably I don't blame her, she's fallen off her bike, but there was no need for the aggression that she showed."_​Every part of that is blaming the victim and refusing to take any responsibilty.

I know a AUS$350 fine will be small change to this millionaire however he should be left in no doubt that he was in the wrong. I'd have insisted on the police issuing the ticket.


GC


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## sazzaa (19 Mar 2014)

Any half decent parent teaches their kid to always check behind before getting out of a car - I don't know why anyone wouldn't?


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## Cubist (19 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Any half decent parent teaches their kid to always check behind before getting out of a car - I don't know why anyone wouldn't?


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Any half decent parent teaches their kid to always check behind before getting out of a car - I don't know why anyone wouldn't?


My kids don't open the door till I tell em its ok to do so


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## sazzaa (19 Mar 2014)

Colin B said:


> My kids don't open the door till I tell em its ok to do so



If they're young then that's fine, but I presume at some point you'll be encouraging them to check rather than rely on you checking for them?


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> If they're young then that's fine, but I presume at some point you'll be encouraging them to check rather than rely on you checking for them?


They do check but when it comes to exiting through possible dangers I use the advantages I have is mirrors I also exit the car before them so have good 360 vision . I will admit that I am relaxing this on the eldest who's 16 now but the 10 year old can be dippy at times even though she's a smart kid in other ways . IMHO I'm the driver and everything is my responsibility including my passengers I've even been know to tell grown adults to wait until I've checked its clear lol


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## sazzaa (19 Mar 2014)

Colin B said:


> They do check but when it comes to exiting through possible dangers I use the advantages I have is mirrors I also exit the car before them so have good 360 vision . I will admit that I am relaxing this on the eldest who's 16 now but the 10 year old can be dippy at times even though she's a smart kid in other ways . IMHO I'm the driver and everything is my responsibility including my passengers I've even been know to tell grown adults to wait until I've checked its clear lol


Holy shoot, 10 and 16 and you're treating them like toddlers? The mind boggles.


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

sazzaa said:


> Holy s***, 10 and 16 and you're treating them like toddlers? The mind boggles.


I don't read think your qualified to assume that just because I take extra precautions as regards exiting a car that I treat my children like toddlers . As I said I've even told adults to wait before now when I've been in a car and at the end of the day my car my rules simple as that or walk if I'm too strict there's an option


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## Archie_tect (19 Mar 2014)

Big difference between exiting on the road side and exiting *onto the pavement*... besides, what happened to our usual sensible advice to cyclists to keep clear of door swings? ...just because there is a line on the road between the kerb and the taxi doesn't give her carte blanch to ignore the obvious and immediate danger of someone getting out... this is getting out of proportion- the cyclist shouldn't have put herself in that position.


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## glasgowcyclist (19 Mar 2014)

Archie_tect said:


> Big difference between exiting on the road side and exiting *onto the pavement*... besides, what happened to our usual sensible advice to cyclists to keep clear of door swings? ...just because there is a line on the road between the kerb and the taxi doesn't give her carte blanch to ignore the obvious and immediate danger of someone getting out... this is getting out of proportion- the cyclist shouldn't have put herself in that position.


 
Sorry Archie_tect, I disagree.

It's a situation that calls for attention by everyone but, as was pointed out unequivocally by the planning minister and the police, she was doing nothing wrong by riding where she did. Indeed, from what I've read of cycling in Australia, cyclists are *expected* to ride where she was.

The reporter sums it up thus:
_"This is a lesson to all motorists and passengers: cyclists are well within their rights to ride between the kerb and the traffic whether that traffic is moving or stopped."_​ 
GC


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## Archie_tect (19 Mar 2014)

Cyclists should look ahead and anticipate dangers though GC... would you put yourself in danger of the taxi doors opening and ride through that gap on that premise, solely because legally you can*- *I wouldn't.


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## Markymark (19 Mar 2014)

I wouldn't ride through there either but wouldn't apportion any blame to someone who did.


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## Mugshot (19 Mar 2014)

I enjoyed the reporter standing in the road swinging his arm out in front of the cyclist coming up behind him.


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## algo (19 Mar 2014)

Apparently this lane is a "refuge" not a "designated bike lane" - nonetheless it seems there is little route option. There are tramtracks to the right, and I think at that particular point it's not even possible to filter down the right on account of a platform. I think I would be very wary of filtering down there, but given that it seems it is the only viable route you can't blame her for taking it, and I'm in no place to judge her for doing it. It's clearly appalling infrastructure - some interesting points on this video where the cyclist speaks - in the very final interview you see several cyclists doing the same thing. I still find the reaction of the passengers appalling personally.


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## glenn forger (19 Mar 2014)

1:26, that cycle lane is 90cm. Good grief.


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## Phil Fouracre (19 Mar 2014)

Looked painful, feel sorry for her, and well done for being calm and persistent, but, law or no law, there is no way I would be doing what she did. I avoid undertaking at all cost, you can't get away from the dooring area, and, I reckon there is much more chance of a passenger not looking than a driver - not a lot, but, from experience a noticeable difference.


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## snorri (19 Mar 2014)

I wonder if the arrogance of the passengers was alcohol fuelled? Not that that is any excuse for their behaviour.
The cyclist wasn't travelling fast, so was probably aware of the hazard.


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## glenn forger (19 Mar 2014)

Money and arrogance fuelled.


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## Shut Up Legs (19 Mar 2014)

Today's Herald Sun Melbourne editorial is calling for registration of all cyclists, including numberplates . Apparently they missed the fact that registration didn't stop motorists from frequently breaking various road rules. They also didn't mention that motorists in Victoria actually have a higher road rule infringement rate than cyclists, and this has been the case for years. It doesn't surprise me, though, as our major newspapers are all generally pro-motorist (as is the whole country, in fact). I wrote a rebuttal to the paper, but don't know if they'll bother publishing it.


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

victor said:


> Today's Herald Sun Melbourne editorial is calling for registration of all cyclists, including numberplates . Apparently they missed the fact that registration didn't stop motorists from frequently breaking various road rules. They also didn't mention that motorists in Victoria actually have a higher road rule infringement rate than cyclists, and this has been the case for years. It doesn't surprise me, though, as our major newspapers are all generally pro-motorist (as is the whole country, in fact). I wrote a rebuttal to the paper, but don't know if they'll bother publishing it.


Lol where would you put the plate I assume aus has a minimum plate size like the UK imagine them stuck on a bike
Sorry meant standard plate size


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## Shut Up Legs (19 Mar 2014)

Don't know. All I can think is: imagine the wind drag it would create!


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

Would kids have to have em too . I don't think they've thought that idea out


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## Shut Up Legs (19 Mar 2014)

The Herald Sun readership is sheeple. Thinking isn't their strong point. I only read this paper because I like to stay informed on what other people think of cyclists, even though I feel sometimes like I'm wading into a cesspool.


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## glenn forger (19 Mar 2014)

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...d-safety-message/story-fni0ffsx-1226859518830

That article is disgraceful. Where to start?


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## algo (19 Mar 2014)

no - I like it. I want all pedestrians with a number plate, and all dogs and cats and all babies. Babies should definitely get their own insurance - I've had enough of nearly being hit by toys being flung from prams and almost damaging my shoes.


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## Colin B (19 Mar 2014)

Just to play devils advocate for a second would it be a bad thing carrying ID . Not sure if I'm in a minority but I always carry identification with me and I'm not suggesting number plates on a bike lol ,but if a cyclist has zero ID and is injured it would be harder to confirm who he is if he's seriously hurt . 
There again though I've always thought it should be law to carry your drivers licence and that isn't


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## glenn forger (19 Mar 2014)

algo said:


> no - I like it. I want all pedestrians with a number plate, and all dogs and cats and all babies. Babies should definitely get their own insurance - I've had enough of nearly being hit by toys being flung from prams and almost damaging my shoes.



They won't allow critical comments. Filthy ex-colonial scummers.


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## benb (19 Mar 2014)

glenn forger said:


> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...d-safety-message/story-fni0ffsx-1226859518830
> 
> That article is disgraceful. Where to start?



At the end?


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## glenn forger (20 Mar 2014)

Meanwhile, a Facebook user attracted criticism for publicly calling on drivers to start dooring cyclists and then upload the videos of the offences to social media.

The post attracted disgust from other Facebook users, who are calling on the man's employer, BMW Australia, to answer for his comments.

One Facebook user wrote: ‘‘Last night an employee of yours, a Tony Chirinian, incited violence by calling on others to start "dooring" cyclists and uploading videos to social media’’.

"Dooring a cyclist can kill a cyclist. He has incited others to injure, maim and possibly kill cyclists."

Another user said: "This is pretty bad. I hope Tony gets a good talking to about this, and appropriately reprimanded for how he has irreparably damaged BMWs image."

When Fairfax Media contacted BMW Australia for a response, a spokeswoman said: "BMW Group Australia does not in any way support or condone the views expressed by this individual on their personal social media account. This individual is an external contractor to BMW Group Australia.

"Vehicle, passenger and commuter safety is an integral part of BMW’s Corporate philosophy and is a matter which we take very seriously. This issue has been handled internally".

She also said the company's response would be posted on the BMW’s Facebook page.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/c...of-reaction-20140319-352r5.html#ixzz2wUtf0KPw


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## Shut Up Legs (20 Mar 2014)

Yes, I heard about that, and I hope that the "handled internally" is more than just a mild reprimand. The fallout from this incident has been depressing me this week , because there just seems to be so much anti-cyclist hate in Australia lately. All week, I've been feeling like I have a big target painted on my back while riding the bike. On the bright side , I did manage to get my letter published in today's Herald Sun (Melbourne) newspaper. My submitted text is


> Why does the Herald Sun think cyclist registration will keep in check the minority of cyclists who break the road rules? This clearly didn't work with motorists, because a higher proportion of motorists than cyclists break the road rules, and this has been the case for many years.
> Education is a better solution: all road users, regardless of their vehicle type, need to be better educated on the road rules. It seems to be far too easy these days to get a driver's licence with minimal road rules knowledge.


and the edited text is


> How would cyclist registration keep in check the minority of cyclists who break the road rules?
> This clearly didn't work with motorists, because a higher proportion of motorists than cyclists break the law.
> All road users need to be better educated. It seems to be far too easy to get a driver's licence with minimal knowledge of the road rules.


They didn't stuff around with it too much, and to be honest, I didn't really expect them to publish it, given their generally pro-motorist stance. My name and address is below it, too - now that target on my back's getting itchy .


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