# Don't ride in groups or we will be stopped cycling completely.



## ozboz (27 Mar 2020)

Just heard that Richmond Park will not be open to cyclists from tomorrow, NHS cyclists can still go in on production of their ID badge,,


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## Racing roadkill (27 Mar 2020)

The wannabe Bradley Wiggins brigade screws it up for everyone ( again ). All they needed to do was do as they were told, but no, that’s far too difficult for them.


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## Banjo (27 Mar 2020)

New warning from HMG don't cycle in groups or cycling will be banned completely.

Personally getting out on the bike is keeping me sane don't screw it up for all of us.

PS it seems I misread the article on BBC online news. Apparently this wasn't an official government warning.


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## PK99 (27 Mar 2020)

Thanks to the selfish Barstewards last weekend


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## Bianchi boy (27 Mar 2020)

Ditto above,


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## PK99 (27 Mar 2020)

Racing roadkill said:


> The wannabe Bradley Wiggins brigade screws it up for everyone ( again ). All they needed to do was do as they were told, but no, that’s far too difficult for them.



last saturday


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## slowmotion (27 Mar 2020)

^^^^^^^ I wonder where the arrogant idiots are going to go next.


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## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

slowmotion said:


> ^^^^^^^ I wonder where the arrogant idiots are going to go next.


Box Hill  Hopefully Surrey plod are in strong attendance. Ditto to disperse the bikers although hopefully the carpark is well and truly locked down


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## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

Mr Boardman agrees...


View: https://twitter.com/BritishCycling/status/1243613763145793539?s=19


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## cosmicbike (27 Mar 2020)

I agree, hopefully the invincible weekend warriors won't be out again.
As an aside, I use my bike to cycle to work, and as someone classed as a key worker it would be interesting to see how that is approached...


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## DCLane (27 Mar 2020)

I can see coming that we're allowed within a mile from home. 2km from home's been implemented in Ireland from this weekend.

As usual the stupid few spoil it for the rest.


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## Rusty Nails (27 Mar 2020)

Perhaps they are confusing their herd mentality with herd immunity.


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## slowmotion (27 Mar 2020)

I think it won't be long coming unfortunately.


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## screenman (27 Mar 2020)

The villagers in these parts are complaining loudly.


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## ozboz (27 Mar 2020)

I found out about this from a local website , it was the lycra brigade behaving badly that were blamed , which is a piss off because I like my circuit rides around there , I’ll head along the river tomorrow, maybe, but the nice weather will bring hoards out so not the best place to be riding ,


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## Globalti (27 Mar 2020)

Er... so why can't I go cycling with my son? We live in the same house.


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## Gunk (27 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> Er... so why can't I go cycling with my son? We live in the same house.



Because a few bellends insist on spoiling it for all of us


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## DCLane (27 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> Er... so why can't I go cycling with my son? We live in the same house.



You can. And I will be with mine tomorrow.

My view, and others, is that this is likely to be curtailed further.


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## alicat (27 Mar 2020)

Globalti said:


> Er... so why can't I go cycling with my son? We live in the same house.



Well strictly speaking you can but the rest of the world doesn't know that you are family so it looks like you aren't part of the solution. If you live together, don't you want a break from each other from time to time?


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## NickWi (27 Mar 2020)

The problem is it isn't just you and your son. What happens when the you and the 60 odd million others in this country all chose to do the same thing. If it ain't necessary, stay at home.


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## Soltydog (27 Mar 2020)

cosmicbike said:


> I agree, hopefully the invincible weekend warriors won't be out again.
> As an aside, I use my bike to cycle to work, and as someone classed as a key worker it would be interesting to see how that is approached...


As above, hope folks behave this weekend & we can carry on as we are at present. Also a key worker, so would like to be able to carry on cycling to work (min 16 miles each way) I'll even offer to work more shifts to help out if I can cycle in 😊


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## derrick (27 Mar 2020)

NickWi said:


> The problem is it isn't just you and your son. What happens when the you and the 60 odd million others in this country all chose to do the same thing. If it ain't necessary, stay at home.


Why would i want to ride with his son. 🤣


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## ColinJ (27 Mar 2020)

I think that we _stay-at-homes_ probably _will _get banned but the government surely would have to make an exception for people cycling to essential jobs or to distant shops?

If we were restricted to (say) a 5 km/3 mile radius of home it would still leave me a nice selection of challenging scenic loops. That sounds like a nightmare to police though...


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## Drago (27 Mar 2020)

And once again, despite this country facing the biggest peacetime crisis in it's history, the national pastime of sticking ones nose into other peoples business instead of getting on with it and minding their own, continues rampant and unabated. Nice to know the nation has it's priorities right.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (27 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> I can see coming that we're allowed within a mile from home. 2km from home's been implemented in Ireland from this weekend.
> 
> As usual the stupid few spoil it for the rest.


NI soon to follow too, we have bigger issues though


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## Saluki (27 Mar 2020)

I haven’t seen groups, where I am.
I saw a family. Mum, Dad, 2 x kids under 12 or so but no club types. Apart from that family, I have only seen solo riders.

I ride with ex BF. We ride well apart, 7 or 8 metres or so. We have a whistle each In case we need to alert the other. Then if either of us has a mechanical, or falls in the cut, it’s only a quick ride to one of our homes to get a car and to rescue the other. We did, unofficially, live together but now both live alone. I think that we are the only people that each other see presently.

so we sort of ride solo but with back up, if that makes sense.


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## Inspector Monkfish (27 Mar 2020)

Banjo said:


> New warning from HMG don't cycle in groups or cycling will be banned completely.
> 
> Personally getting out on the bike is keeping me sane don't screw it up for all of us.



Not that I disagree with the sentiment. But HMG haven't warned anything of the sort have they?

British cycling and Chris Boardman may have suggested that it will happen. But there has been nothing on the subject from the government as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong then please link me to the warning


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## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Not that I disagree with the sentiment. But HMG haven't warned anything of the sort have they?
> 
> British cycling and Chris Boardman may have suggested that it will happen. But there has been nothing on the subject from the government as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong then please link me to the warning


It's been made very clear that you may only cycle alone or with members of your direct household

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

Also: Do not meet others, even friends or family.


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## Rusty Nails (27 Mar 2020)

I went for a solo ride yesterday up the Taff Trail between Cardiff and Pontypridd. Probably less cyclists out than usual and most solo or in parent/kid pairs, but there was one group of three 50ish men. These took up most of the approx 3m wide path and I let them know I wanted to overtake but they hogged the whole path, chatting away, for two miles so I could not safely pass them. In the end I took a cheeky detour at a junction and got ahead of them.

I think recreational/exercise riding will soon be banned so I bought a turbo trainer last week to keep fit for when it starts again. Even if it is not banned and the virus situation worsens I may decide to stick to the trainer. I lived without cycling for 50 years, I can do without it for a few months.


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## alicat (27 Mar 2020)

I think you're right @Inspector Monkfish. However, we don't get to negotiate with the government or the police: if people are seen to be acting like they are on holiday rather than in quasi-lockdown then the clampdown will follow just like it has done in Italy and France.


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## Gunk (27 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> I think you're right @Inspector Monkfish. However, we don't get to negotiate with the government or the police: if people are seen to be acting like they are on holiday rather than in quasi-lockdown then the clampdown will follow just like it has done in Italy and France.



The way people are behaving it won’t be long.


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## Dogtrousers (27 Mar 2020)

Banjo said:


> New warning from HMG don't cycle in groups or cycling will be banned completely.


Do you have a link? Or is it just your opinion?

Not saying I disagree, just that there's so much misinformation about it would be best to reference the statement you refer to.

Edit beaten to it by @Inspector Monkfish


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## DCLane (27 Mar 2020)

derrick said:


> Why would i want to ride with his son. 🤣



Do you want mine? I'm tired of getting dropped by a sponsored child


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## lane (27 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> Well strictly speaking you can but the rest of the world doesn't know that you are family so it looks like you aren't part of the solution. If you live together, don't you want a break from each other from time to time?



Despite living together I get plenty break from them. Now we go for a walk in the evening is the main time I get to talk to my son.


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## classic33 (27 Mar 2020)

The problem may have come about in part, by a simple increase in the number of people now cycling. Local to me, there are another six people riding bikes/e-bikes this week. Two I never thought I'd see on a bike.

If there's an increase in the number of people cycling and a decrease in cars on the roads, the cyclists will stand out even more. There's no new roads appeared this week, so they end up on the same roads.


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## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Not that I disagree with the sentiment. But HMG haven't warned anything of the sort have they?
> 
> British cycling and Chris Boardman may have suggested that it will happen. But there has been nothing on the subject from the government as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong then please link me to the warning


British Cycling is part funded by government and a government agency appoints a couple of directors IIRC.

But the ex footballer leading it seems to have decided to curry favour and get some publicity by attacking cyclists. As we've seen repeatedly, BC is not a charity so is not as strictly required to act for public benefit.


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## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> I can see coming that we're allowed within a mile from home. 2km from home's been implemented in Ireland from this weekend.
> 
> As usual the stupid few spoil it for the rest.


Why does this only apply to cyclists? The met clocked joyriders doing 134 on a 40-limit bit of the A10 yesterday but there's no suggestion that the stupid few will result in private individuals being stopped from driving completely.


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## ColinJ (28 Mar 2020)

NHS advice...



NHS said:


> You should only leave the house for 1 of 4 reasons:
> 
> shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
> one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle – alone or with members of your household
> ...


That is beginning to sound like a very short walk/run/bike ride!


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## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Something weird going here , I’m sure I titled this thread
“ Richmond Park “


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## I like Skol (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> Something weird going here , I’m sure I titled this thread
> “ Richmond Park “


Looks like a thread merger has occured. Both threads are closely related.


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## PK99 (28 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Box Hill  Hopefully Surrey plod are in strong attendance. Ditto to disperse the bikers although hopefully the carpark is well and truly locked down



Top half of box hill zig zag road is a "Private Road" road owned by the National Trust. It is not a public right of way and can be closed to any or all forms of traffic at any time


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## albal (28 Mar 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I think that we _stay-at-homes_ probably _will _get banned but the government surely would have to make an exception for people cycling to essential jobs or to distant shops?
> 
> If we were restricted to (say) a 5 km/3 mile radius of home it would still leave me a nice selection of challenging scenic loops. That sounds like a nightmare to police though...


Didn't I read somewhere a guy in rural France upload a 20km ride to Strava only to be paid a visit by gendarmerie?... I doubt the idiots don't read this sort of thing and it's seems inevitable. Shame.


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## Shearwater Missile (28 Mar 2020)

I too of course hope there is not a total ban on cycling or walking for that matter. From what I have seen though there are some who are not taking the situation seriously enough. I am talking all, not just cyclists. I think if people were, then they would be wearing face masks, assuming they could get hold of some. We made our own and feel a bit better about going to the shops, well Mrs S stays at home as she is an at risk candidate.
Stay well and the mind active folks.


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## hoopdriver (28 Mar 2020)

Face masks don't really make any difference for rank-and-file people out and about, and the use of them routinely like that only takes up vital supplies that are genuinely needed by emergency and medical personnel.


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## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

Shearwater Missile said:


> I too of course hope there is not a total ban on cycling or walking for that matter. From what I have seen though there are some who are not taking the situation seriously enough. I am talking all, not just cyclists. I think if people were, then they would be wearing face masks, assuming they could get hold of some. We made our own and feel a bit better about going to the shops, well Mrs S stays at home as she is an at risk candidate.
> Stay well and the mind active folks.


There are only two tangible benefits to a face mask. If you cough or sneeze it helps stop droplets being exhaled and secondly my help remind you not to touch your face while out and about. In terms of inhaling droplets, having them on your skin etc. from others face masks are pointless, once they become damp they are ineffective.


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## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

Indeed. The masks are of no benefit to the wearer as a piece of protective equipment, and unless you're NBC or CBRN trained you won't know how to remove such items without risk of contaminating yourself. All they do is make the wearers look like plonkers.


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## I like Skol (28 Mar 2020)

Just rode 10 miles home from a night shift and it's like a freakinn ghost town out there!


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## bikingdad90 (28 Mar 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Just rode 10 miles home from a night shift and it's like a freakinn ghost town out there!



It was the same when I was out running on Thursday night, thought the crowds were clapping me on for a moment before I realised it was 8pm.

Where I live there are paths that run the full length of the town and it is nice to see so many families setting time aside, leaving phones at home and going for a walk/ride together. It’s funny to see families looking a bit bemused at this new found family time as they are finally reconnecting and not leading independent lives within the same household.

I am looking forward to not having to try and work from home and enjoy the weekend with the family. Not nice sat behind a desk while the children are taking a break from learning and playing in the back garden in the sun and I can’t join them...


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## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

I was out riding on a bridleway yesterday as I approached a gate there was a couple coming the other way on their bikes, he got off his bike opened the gate & his partner rode through & off to the side of the track, he made it clear that he would hold the gate open for me so I sprinted through the gate saying Thank you as I passed. As I went through the gate we would have been less than 1M apart, when I told my wife about it she was horrified that I had got so close, my rationale was it would have been for a split second & the risk was minimal. She thinks I should have stopped, got off the bridleway, allowed them to pass & then gone through the gate on my own.


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## RoadRider400 (28 Mar 2020)

Just been out for my early morning 25miles. No chain gangs at all and only one other cyclist. I know it was only one ride but the message might be getting through.


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## Mo1959 (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I was out riding on a bridleway yesterday as I approached a gate there was a couple coming the other way on their bikes, he got off his bike opened the gate & his partner rode through & off to the side of the track, he made it clear that he would hold the gate open for me so I sprinted through the gate saying Thank you as I passed. As I went through the gate we would have been less than 1M apart, when I told my wife about it she was horrified that I had got so close, my rationale was it would have been for a split second & the risk was minimal. She thinks I should have stopped, got off the bridleway, allowed them to pass & then gone through the gate on my own.


I would have been happy he had held the gate rather than touching it myself. Lol.


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## tom73 (28 Mar 2020)

As others have pointed out masks are not the solution.
Outside clinical environments a mask is pointless. Unless your infected it will help protecting others around you but only to a point. 
But even in clinical environments they become pointless unless changed regularity. 
If you are not trained how to use them they increase your risk as they make you touch your face even more. 
Not to mention the false sense of security they give you. The risk of contamination though miss use outweighs any benefit. 
Leave masks and gloves to ones who really need them Mrs 73 and co would really appreciate.
we need all the stock we can find at the moment.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Mar 2020)

I've done 160km this week and not seen a single group out. 

Heartwarming to see families with little kids wobbling round the streets for their daily exercise. Maybe a rise in cycling will be an unexpected benefit.


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## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I've done 160km this week and not seen a single group out.
> 
> Heartwarming to see families with little kids wobbling round the streets for their daily exercise. Maybe a rise in cycling will be an unexpected benefit.


I noticed on my ride last week the amount of families knocking about on their bikes , Dads leading the charge , is nice to see


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## Levo-Lon (28 Mar 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> I think you are all right, saw plenty of solo cyclists then two "invincibles" passed me, "No Groups" shouted I to which the second one then gobbed all over the place. These were a pair of I guess, 40 somethings.
> 
> Unfortunately there are ar--holes in all walks of life.




Sadly more Aholes than people


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## vickster (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> I noticed on my ride last week the amount of families knocking about on their bikes , Dads leading the charge , is nice to see


Doing some useful parenting for a change then


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## Levo-Lon (28 Mar 2020)

I'll cycle to work as much as I can 7miles but I'm classed as essential worker.

I think e will be in total lock down shortly so a lot of people will be going stir crazy.


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## Levo-Lon (28 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Doing some useful parenting for a change then




The other side is kids are being forced to be home with abusive parents as they don't have the school sanctuary ..child abuse will rocket during this crisis.


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## Dave 123 (28 Mar 2020)

I was cycling down a narrow lane earlier in the week. A lady was coming up the other way. The lane in question is dirty and rough. 8 inch wide mud down the middle, four inches thick. 

As she was wobbling up the hill she took a hand off the bar to pull her jumper over her face and nearly fell off in the process!

in her attempt to protect us both from a virus she risked imminent death from a fall. As per social distancing, I wouldn’t have been able to assist.

At least she’s made me smile.


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## vickster (28 Mar 2020)

Levo-Lon said:


> The other side is kids are being forced to be home with abusive parents as they don't have the school sanctuary ..child abuse will rocket during this crisis.


I wonder if violence in the home is one reason South Africa has banned the sale of alcohol 

Children identified as vulnerable here are still able to go to school


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## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> I can see coming that we're allowed within a mile from home. 2km from home's been implemented in Ireland from this weekend.
> 
> As usual the stupid few spoil it for the rest.



I went shopping yesterday, for myself, my elderly parents, and my brother.
#1
First to the post office, X’s were taped on the floor to assist people in keeping
their distance, but right alongside the row of X’s was an idiot stacking shelves,
no mask, no gloves, talking rubbish to everyone who was on their X and them all
trying to ignore him, totally undoing any benefit of keeping our distance, as he was
walking about breathing on everyone and taking in what other people had just
breathed out.
#2
I went to a post office in another town, where a man decided to take up residence
in the middle of the doorway, no mask and no gloves, he was the shop owners son
and breathed in what everyone else just breathed out, and everyone had to breath in
what he breathed out as there was simply no room to get past without doing so,
#3
Same post office, a man and woman aged in their late teens early twenties came in,
they paid no attention to social distancing policies, the woman coughed on top of
everyone around her, the man said, we can go for another walk when we get out
of here, and I will do the coughing this time, then thy both broke out laughing.
#4
Got to the till where two women were standing chatting as the long line
of customers progressed, no masks or gloves on either of them, they seemed
completely oblivious to the discomfort they were causing the people in the queue
who had no room to increase their distance from them.
#5
I went to a major food store, shoppers were keeping their distance and no babies unlike
the day before, yet only me and One other person wore a mask, or gloves,
everyone queued up on their X, all good you would think,
Not to be, got to the till, every till operator was sitting there with no screen between them and
the customers, and not a mask in site.
They breathed in what every customer in the line to their till breathed out, and breathed it
back out on every customer that they dealt with, completely unacceptable.
#6
I Went to the filling station, walked in to pay, and a delivery man coughed right in my
face as I entered the shop, he had no mask and no gloves, and he was delivering bread
to other shops in the locality, I saw his van at them later on.
#7
Same filling station, three of the staff were standing in the middle of the floor looking
at a picture of a baby on a phone, no gloves, no masks and them head head.
#8
Same filling station, two 30 ish yr old men were pumping a wheel at the facilities compressor,
and a third one walked over to laugh about the corona virus with them, no mask
and no gloves on any of them.

#9
I went to another filling station, couldn't get in the door because a group of 30 or so yr old men
we’re in a huddle laughing about the lockdown, no masks, no gloves on any of them.
#10
Coming back home through the town, I saw a car park full of young people
in cars and tractors, having a get together, 100 yards from the Garda station.

It really is unbelievable what is happening given the seriousness of Covid19,
while a lot of people are doing everything possible to avoid getting or spreading it,
a huge number are laughing about it and putting vast numbers at risk as willing carriers
of the virus, they have the same information as everyone else and they choose to
deliberately ignore it.
We will need nothing short of a miracle to survive Covid19 with idiots like this
in our communities, they are an absolute disgrace.
I saw a lot more too, but am simply too angry to continue.


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## Milkfloat (28 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> I went shopping yesterday, for myself, my elderly parents, and my brother.
> #1
> First to the post office, X’s were taped on the floor to assist people in keeping
> their distance, but right alongside the row of X’s was an idiot stacking shelves,
> ...


If you were at home rather than going to multiple post offices, petrol stations and a supermarket and seeing you parents and a brother non of those interactions would have affected you.


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## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> If you were at home rather than going to multiple post offices, petrol stations and a supermarket and seeing you parents and a brother non of those interactions would have affected you.




In early February I had to go to several post offices before I could get the items I needed ,the small satellite post offices are sometimes limited in certain goods, supermarkets are low in certain products as we all know , my Son has to have certain foods stuffs due to dietary problem , if I had to visit every supermarket to help get the stuff he cannot without going on public transport I would Do so , if the @Shadow121 is trying to do similar for his family I reckon he is doing the right thing ,


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## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

Spain and Italy have banned outdoor exercise altogether. It'll be happening here soon, so if you have a dog I hope you have a garden.


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## Randombiker9 (28 Mar 2020)

I know this is about groups I don’t ride in a group anyone. But i read an update about police questioning/fining people that aren’t on essiental travel after 1pm. Does this mean you have to do your one form of excerize before 1pm because I thought your allowed to do one form of excersize. I was asking as ussually I cycle after 12 or 1 and if this is happening I don’t want to get in trouble with the local police. Because it’s not very clear. Only states about the essiental travel and not the other exceptions like one form of excersize etc.. does anyone know?


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## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

There is no such regulation in the new legislation.


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## Randombiker9 (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Spain and Italy have banned outdoor exercise altogether. It'll be happening here soon, so if you have a dog I hope you have a garden.


I don’t have any pet but 
There’s something that is awkard with that as the animal welfare act is a law and that requires pet owners and all animal places to follow the 5 animal needs with the key one being able to express natural behaviour. So if people can’t walk their dogs. It means their getting deprived off able to explore their natural behaviour. So with the animal welfare act being a law wouldn’t that be causing issues.


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## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

Bollards to that. Any emergency legislation banning outdoor exercise will override stuff like that. Not having improvised morgues in football stadia takes greater precedence than my labrador wanting a walk.


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## Randombiker9 (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> There is no such regulation in the new legislation.


Is there another legislation then? As i thought the restrictions were still same as one form of excersize and essiental shopping etc.. (except for when I read about what I meantioned before in my post)


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## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> If you were at home rather than going to multiple post offices, petrol stations and a supermarket and seeing you parents and a brother non of those interactions would have affected you.


@Milkfloat
I guess your not with it today, I self isolated, so three families who live in different houses would
not be at risk or put others in their homes at risk, I do all the travelling, shopping, collection pensions
and paying bills for them.
I then disinfect their orders, and leave their orders / food medicine sitting for a time, before I put it outside in a different collection area with different access routes for each, so the recipients never come into contact with each other.

Try thinking out of the box, and you you might just figure out why its better for one person
to enter the risk zones, while the others are kept as isolated as possible.


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## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> In early February I had to go to several post offices before I could get the items I needed ,the small satellite post offices are sometimes limited in certain goods, supermarkets are low in certain products as we all know , my Son has to have certain foods stuffs due to dietary problem , if I had to visit every supermarket to help get the stuff he cannot without going on public transport I would Do so , if the @Shadow121 is trying to do similar for his family I reckon he is doing the right thing ,


Thank you @ozboz 
There was no possibility of me using just one post office, filling station or shop,
I was shopping in isolation for three families, so they could remain isolated.


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## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> Thank you @ozboz
> There was no possibility of me using just one post office, filling station or shop,
> I was shopping in isolation for three families, so they could remain isolated.



I took it you were on a mission to help others, very Gallant Sir !


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## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

I 


Randombiker9 said:


> I don’t have any pet but
> There’s something that is awkard with that as the animal welfare act is a law and that requires pet owners and all animal places to follow the 5 animal needs with the key one being able to express natural behaviour. So if people can’t walk their dogs. It means their getting deprived off able to explore their natural behaviour. So with the animal welfare act being a law wouldn’t that be causing issues.


Think keeping Covid19 at bay takes priority over walking the dog, though in Ireland we are allowed to venture no further than 2km for exercise, and should only be in the company of those we are currently
living with, no inviting friends, and anyone under 17 is not allowed any social interaction, such as shopping,
as their guardian is fully responsible for bringing in their food and medicine, so they have no valid reason
if caught outside the 2km exercise limit, or being with anyone outside the circle of people they live with,
which means family only, not everyone in the block.


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## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> I took it you were on a mission to help others, very Gallant Sir !


Yes, I would rather not be out at all, given the simpletons that still don’t get
the message.


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## lane (28 Mar 2020)

All this talk about monitoring phones to see if people of following the rules - they just need to look at Strava.


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## lane (28 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I wonder if violence in the home is one reason South Africa has banned the sale of alcohol
> 
> Children identified as vulnerable here are still able to go to school



It doesn't mean they are going to school though. And many not identified as vulnerable school can still be a sanctuary.


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

Jeez the state of this thread. It starts with a claim about a totally fabricated government announcement and descends into rumour monging about a 1pm curfew and then condemning members of the public for failing to comply with invented requirements (masks are for medical personnel, and have never been recommended for members of the public).

A modest suggestion: read the official government advice and if you want to make a claim then substantiate it with a link to an authoritative source. Just because you think something stands to reason doesn't automatically make it right.


----------



## lane (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Jeez the state of this thread. It starts with a claim about a totally fabricated government announcement and descends into rumour monging about a 1pm curfew and then condemning members of the public for failing to comply with invented requirements (masks are for medical personnel, and have never been recommended for members of the public).
> 
> A modest suggestion: read the official government advice and if you want to make a claim then substantiate it with a link to an authoritative source. Just because you think something stands to reason doesn't automatically make it right.



Could be the police making up the rules not the poster.


----------



## wyre forest blues (28 Mar 2020)

We as cyclists are very fortunate at the moment that our pastime / sport is cycling because we are allowed under the government guidelines to use our bikes to exercise outside once per day. The obvious thinking behind this is to keep fit. Having said that a number of cyclists I know are riding relatively long distances stopping for a break and taking food such as sandwiches or buying from a take away cafe or roadside van. Regardless of the fact that they are all aware and following the social distancing rules, I'm just interested in the thoughts of others as to whether you think this is in the spirit of the guidelines or not.


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Could be the police making up the rules not the poster.


In which case it would be wise to cite an authoritative news source.

Carry on as you were. We're all getting a bit tetchy. Some of us are taking it out on others for being less than perfect in various ways.

On the positive side I went out to the shops for the first time in a week. My local mini supermarket had everything I needed, people were keeping their distance and the proprietor has somehow managed to retain his friendly disposition.


----------



## lane (28 Mar 2020)

Well round here police are using drones to spy on dog walkers and posting on social media about cyclists wearing lycra.


----------



## C R (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Bollards to that. Any emergency legislation banning outdoor exercise will override stuff like that. Not having improvised morgues in football stadia takes greater precedence than my labrador wanting a walk.


Spanish dog owners are allowed to take their dogs out once a day. It is the only exception other than going to the shops, doctors or work.


----------



## Randombiker9 (28 Mar 2020)

wyre forest blues said:


> We as cyclists are very fortunate at the moment that our pastime / sport is cycling because we are allowed under the government guidelines to use our bikes to exercise outside once per day. The obvious thinking behind this is to keep fit. Having said that a number of cyclists I know are riding relatively long distances stopping for a break and taking food such as sandwiches or buying from a take away cafe or roadside van. Regardless of the fact that they are all aware and following the social distancing rules, I'm just interested in the thoughts of others as to whether you think this is in the spirit of the guidelines or not.


It said for a limited time but doesn’t specific how long another thing is perhaps people that do cycle could stop using cycle paths due to the 2ft Social distancing and only cycle for 1 hour max. Anyway that’s what I do and I just cycle not far from where I live.


----------



## Rusty Nails (28 Mar 2020)

Randombiker9 said:


> It said for a limited time but doesn’t specific how long another thing is perhaps people that do cycle could stop using cycle paths due to the 2ft Social distancing and only cycle for 1 hour max. Anyway that’s what I do and I just cycle not far from where I live.



Does a car overtaking a cyclist have to abide by the 2m social distancing rule?


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> Dog owners are allowed to take their dogs out once a day in Spain. It is the only exception other than going to the shops, doctors or work.


I'm glad I don't have a dog. Spain is a bit of a way. "Come on Fido, time for goodnight weewees. We'll miss the Bilbao sailing"


----------



## C R (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm glad I don't have a dog. Spain is a bit of a way. "Come on Fido, time for goodnight weewees. We'll miss the Bilbao sailing"


Edited for clarity.


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a car overtaking a cyclist have to abide by the 2m social distancing rule?


I appreciate it was possible meant as a light relief but out walking the dog this morning on the footpath a cyclist went the other way on the road he was definitely not more than a yard from me


----------



## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Jeez the state of this thread. It starts with a claim about a totally fabricated government announcement and descends into rumour monging about a 1pm curfew and then condemning members of the public for failing to comply with invented requirements (masks are for medical personnel, and have never been recommended for members of the public).
> 
> A modest suggestion: read the official government advice and if you want to make a claim then substantiate it with a link to an authoritative source. Just because you think something stands to reason doesn't automatically make it right.


This thread began with a statement that Richmond Park Surrey has stopped all but NHS personnel and supervised children to cycle there , admittedly the reasons for closing it to cyclist are contradictory, the Official one is that there is to much congestion at the gates and the 2m rule is not being observed , unofficially , it’s that groups of cyclist are racing around all over the place, others are bashing about on pedestrian tracks and grassed areas


----------



## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

Yep, the great british public are proving that they cant adhere to even the most basic of instructions, so we'll get the screw tightened as a result. France has now stipulated that exercise must be within a 1km radius of home and for no more than an hour each day, and that's pretty generous compared to spain and italy.


----------



## derrick (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> *Jeez the state of this thread. It starts with a claim about a totally fabricated government announcement and descends into rumour monging about a 1pm curfew and then condemning members of the public for failing to comply with invented requirements (masks are for medical personnel, and have never been recommended for members of the public).*
> 
> A modest suggestion: read the official government advice and if you want to make a claim then substantiate it with a link to an authoritative source. Just because you think something stands to reason doesn't automatically make it right.


Why would you expect this tread to be any different from other threads on here.


----------



## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Without going into great detail , I recently enrolled on a specific to my trade course , there was a assignment named Equality and Diversity, a vast amount of this was awarded to and named “Great British Values “ 
Mmmmm


----------



## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

derrick said:


> Why would you expect this tread to be any different from other threads on here.


Yeah , why should my thread be different to everyone else’s ! 
😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Rusty Nails (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I appreciate it was possible meant as a light relief but out walking the dog this morning on the footpath a cyclist went the other way on the road he was definitely not more than a yard from me



Yes, it was meant to be light-hearted, but in reality the 2m rule is being broken all the time. Most footpaths/pavements around here are less than 2m wide so unless one party walks in the road they have to break the guidelines. In the Co-op the other day people were distancing, but at times passing each other in the same aisle at around 1m apart. Everyone was within 2m of the till operator.

Unless the cyclist travelling in the opposite direction to you coughed or sneezed in the second or so he was less than 2m away the risk is so small as to be negligible. If you walk on the inside of the footpath he/she would have been more than 2m away assuming he/she was not riding in the gutter.

The only safe way is to not go out at all and have home deliveries, which you disinfect thoroughly before letting into the house. Do not open your newspaper or mail for a couple of days, or disinfect thoroughly.


----------



## gavroche (28 Mar 2020)

I see very few cyclists at the moment round my way, but the ones I see are solo, no groups. There seem to be fewer people walking their dogs as well, unless they go at a different time from me of course. 
My turbo trainer is all set up but can't use it yet due to backache. 
The A55, which is the main dual carriageway into N.Wales is deserted, very few cars on it. Apparently, the police are on duty on the main bridge that crosses the Menai Strait onto Anglesey to stop tourists from going there.


----------



## bluenotebob (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> France has now stipulated that exercise must be within a 1km radius of home and for no more than an hour each day,



Yes - that was actually announced on Wednesday. If I go out on my bike, I also need to complete a form with all my personal details - and date and time of the ride - and sign it .. or risk a hefty fine.

So - I really can't summon up the energy to go through all that crap, just to go out on my bike and do lots of loops making sure that I stay within 1 kilometre of home. 

My bike has been mothballed - probably for a very long time.


----------



## Mike_P (28 Mar 2020)

Traffic was light enough when cycling yesterday to allow cycling down the middle of the road or on narrow roads the wrong side to keep 2m or more away from pedestrians where necessary. There was one location where I became aware of a rearward approaching vehicle but the driver was obviously aware of the purpose of my actions as no annoyed horn was heard.


----------



## PK99 (28 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Yes, it was meant to be light-hearted, but in reality the 2m rule is being broken all the time. Most footpaths/pavements around here are less than 2m wide so unless *one party walks in the road *they have to break the guidelines.



That is exactly what I have observed plus crossing the street to the other pavement.


----------



## lane (28 Mar 2020)

Police acknowledge confusion over lockdown 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/27/police-acknowledge-confusion-over-uk-lockdown-rules


----------



## vickster (28 Mar 2020)

Randombiker9 said:


> It said for a limited time but doesn’t specific how long another thing is perhaps people that do cycle could stop using cycle paths due to the 2ft Social distancing and only cycle for 1 hour max. Anyway that’s what I do and I just cycle not far from where I live.


2m NOT 2ft (which is less than the minimum 1m recommended by the WHO)


----------



## hoopdriver (28 Mar 2020)

Is that 2 _miles? 😊_


----------



## vickster (28 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Is that 2 _miles? 😊_


No, m is the correct abbreviation for metres


----------



## pawl (28 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Yes, it was meant to be light-hearted, but in reality the 2m rule is being broken all the time. Most footpaths/pavements around here are less than 2m wide so unless one party walks in the road they have to break the guidelines. In the Co-op the other day people were distancing, but at times passing each other in the same aisle at around 1m apart. Everyone was within 2m of the till operator.
> 
> Unless the cyclist travelling in the opposite direction to you coughed or sneezed in the second or so he was less than 2m away the risk is so small as to be negligible. If you walk on the inside of the footpath he/she would have been more than 2m away assuming he/she was not riding in the gutter.
> 
> The only safe way is to not go out at all and have home deliveries, which you disinfect thoroughly before letting into the house. Do not open your newspaper or mail for a couple of days, or disinfect thoroughly.




Are local co are only letting in three people at a time.My daughter went to a local supermarket not sure which one
It was but they had introduced a one way system and was ensuring people maintained the same distance and no one was walking against the flow.No it wasn’t Ikea


----------



## hoopdriver (28 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> No, m is the correct abbreviation for metres


Er....that was meant to be a Ha-ha


----------



## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

I’ve been riding with my shadow. Is that ok as I didn’t see much of my shadow over the winter?


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## hoopdriver (28 Mar 2020)

I have been so used to riding by starlight over the winter that when I went out the other day - after the lockdown - at mid-morning I kept seeing something out of the corner of my eye and thinking that it was some tosser riding close on my flank. He wouldn’t quit either or back off in any way. I was getting really annoyed.

It was my shadow...


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## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Yep, the great british public are proving that they cant adhere to even the most basic of instructions, so we'll get the screw tightened as a result. France has now stipulated that exercise must be within a 1km radius of home and for no more than an hour each day, and that's pretty generous compared to spain and italy.


You do realise that all the nobbers pushing the idea that a tight distance limit is imminent/inevitable are basically encouraging people to think they'd better get any long rides done ASAP?

If that causes said tight limits, none of you have the right to say "told you so" about something you helped cause!


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

wyre forest blues said:


> We as cyclists are very fortunate at the moment that our pastime / sport is cycling because we are allowed under the government guidelines to use our bikes to exercise outside once per day.


Yes and if the hobbyists cause problems for those of us riding for transport or health, expect consequences when this is over!


----------



## hoopdriver (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Yes and if the hobbyists cause problems for those of us riding for transport or health, expect consequences when this is over!


Meaning?


----------



## Drago (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> You do realise that all the nobbers pushing the idea that a tight distance limit is imminent/inevitable are basically encouraging people to think they'd better get any long rides done ASAP?
> 
> If that causes said tight limits, none of you have the right to say "told you so" about something you helped cause!



I'm not responsible for any other persons behaviour. Typical of the cynical whining state of the nation to think people can blame someone other than themselves for that which they do.

I'm not urging, encouraging or suggesting that people should do anything other than obey the restrictions, both to the letter and spirit of the law.

And just for the record, I'm not pushing any such thing - I merely report that the government themselves have informed the public that it they do not stop behaving like twits then they will turn the screw. You may as well direct your ire to the website of the Guardian or BBC news if you believe that such an utterance will actually compell people to do the opposite.

It's a cold, hard reality. Behave now, or be compelled to behave later.


----------



## PK99 (28 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I’ve been riding with my shadow. Is that ok as I didn’t see much of my shadow over the winter?



Ride with your back to the sun. you will have a training partner to chase down!


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I'm not responsible for any other persons behaviour. Typical of the cynical whining state of the nation to think people can blame someone other than themselves for that which they do.


I ain't doing it, medduck! I can just see the effect of words like yours on others. Both groups are being awful. Those talking up tightening and those taking advantage of the liberal rules. I don't understand why either group is being so foolish.



> I'm not urging, encouraging or suggesting that people should do anything other than obey the restrictions, both to the letter and spirit of the law.


I think you're not daft enough so as not to know what your words will encourage some to do.


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## roadrash (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> expect consequences when this is over!



what do you mean by that.


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## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

wyre forest blues said:


> We as cyclists are very fortunate at the moment that our pastime / sport is cycling because we are allowed under the government guidelines to use our bikes to exercise outside once per day. The obvious thinking behind this is to keep fit. Having said that a number of cyclists I know are riding relatively long distances stopping for a break and taking food such as sandwiches or buying from a take away cafe or roadside van. Regardless of the fact that they are all aware and following the social distancing rules, I'm just interested in the thoughts of others as to whether you think this is in the spirit of the guidelines or not.


This has been a very real topic of conversation amongst my fellow club members. We have all reached the conclusion, independently and through engaging in discussion on the club FB page, that +/- 2 hours, 25-35 miles is a reasonable amount of daily exercise.

Most of us would expect a ride to be 60-80 miles at this time of year and be out for 4-5 hours.

The general consensus is we are extremely fortunate that our sport is probably the only one in the UK which has not been closed down. We feel it would be taking the p*** and immoral to do anymore than this when millions of others can't do anything they love and enjoy.

This is simply a conclusion a large group of responsible, civilised individuals have reached through discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. No moralising. Everyone can do what they wish, simply though we all believe this is fair and reasonable.

Since the lockdown I've seen one 50+ ride on Strava and 100+ from people I know.

The club has officially set up four Zwift rides to help everyone keep in touch and having fun. These have gone down an absolute storm.


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## pawl (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> This has been a very real topic of conversation amongst my fellow club members. We have all reached the conclusion, independently and through engaging in discussion on the club FB page, that +/- 2 hours, 25-35 miles is a reasonable amount of daily exercise.
> 
> Most of us would expect a ride to be 60-80 miles at this time of year and be out for 4-5 hours.
> 
> ...



Pity more people don’t show the the same sense of responsibility


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## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> This has been a very real topic of conversation amongst my fellow club members. We have all reached the conclusion, independently and through engaging in discussion on the club FB page, that +/- 2 hours, 25-35 miles is a reasonable amount of daily exercise.
> 
> Most of us would expect a ride to be 60-80 miles at this time of year and be out for 4-5 hours.
> 
> ...





pawl said:


> Pity more people don’t show the the same sense of responsibility


I'm not sure that is sensible without other information, is/are this "group of responsible, civilised individuals" intending to do this solely on their own or in groups? Where do they all live, urban or rural, I personally think they are different, in an urban setting you are more likely to come in contact & encroach somebody else's 2m zone, whereas in a rural area it is far less likely.


----------



## Low Gear Guy (28 Mar 2020)

I can report that the groups of roadies that were out last weekend have disappeared today.

I can usually identify them from the garden by the loud voices and even louder freehubs.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (28 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Are local co are only letting in three people at a time.My daughter went to a local supermarket not sure which one
> It was but they had introduced a one way system and was ensuring people maintained the same distance and no one was walking against the flow.No it wasn’t Ikea



Morrisons on the old cattle market site have done this.


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## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'm not sure that is sensible without other information, is/are this "group of responsible, civilised individuals" intending to do this solely on their own or in groups? Where do they all live, urban or rural, I personally think they are different, in an urban setting you are more likely to come in contact & encroach somebody else's 2m zone, whereas in a rural area it is far less likely.



Virtually everyone is riding solo with the exception of those who live together and a very small number who are riding in twos spaced 30-50 metres apart. That is just two people not several in a long line.

The location is West Lancashire we live in both urban and rural areas. Our rides are generally almost entirely rural except where it is necessary to pass the outskirts of a town.

I understand the distinction between urban and rural but personally feel this is not relevant. For me to take the view we are riding in a rural area and can therefore go out in a group is not adhering to the spirit of what we have all been asked to do.

Quite a number, including myself, have taken to moving as far away from walkers as we possibly can when safe to do so. We are getting a LOT of smiles and waves for this. By making it very clear we respect others we hope this increases respect for all cyclists.

As far as I know virtually everyone has stopped wearing club kit.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Ride with your back to the sun. you will have a training partner to chase down!



Yeah but once I reach Ardamuchan do I need to wait for sunset before turning around?


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I understand the distinction between urban and rural but personally feel this is not relevant. For me to take the view we are riding in a rural area and can therefore go out in a group is not adhering to the spirit of what we have all been asked to do.


It is relevant as you have decided to flaunt what you have been asked to do, you have been asked to limit you exercise to 1 hour, you have all decided to ignore that as you clearly know better & double the amount of time. The relevance of urban/rural is that in an urban scenario your risk of contact or the potential to spread the infection is likely to be greater due to the greater risk of contact.


PaulSB said:


> As far as I know virtually everyone has stopped wearing club kit.


I'm not surprised less chance of being identified


----------



## Milkfloat (28 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> @Milkfloat
> I guess your not with it today, I self isolated, so three families who live in different houses would
> not be at risk or put others in their homes at risk, I do all the travelling, shopping, collection pensions
> and paying bills for them.
> ...


Just what is so special that you need two separate post offices and two separate filing stations? I have racked my brain and cannot think of anything that justifies putting so many people at risk.


----------



## Rusty Nails (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> It is relevant as you have decided to flaunt what you have been asked to do, *you have been asked to limit you exercise to 1 hour*, you have all decided to ignore that as you clearly know better & double the amount of time. The relevance of urban/rural is that in an urban scenario your risk of contact or the potential to spread the infection is likely to be greater due to the greater risk of contact.
> I'm not surprised less chance of being identified



Who have we been asked to do that by in the UK? Is it official advice?

I read this about what Michael Gove said about length of time to exercise:
_"Michael Gove explained that “people can go for the standard length of run or walk that they ordinarily would have done” and emphasised that the important thing is that they limit it to once a day"_

People may sometimes be a bit confused by the slight differences in what politicians say, you included, but I have seen no-one on this forum who appears to be flouting or ignoring official guidelines.


----------



## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> It is relevant as you have decided to flaunt what you have been asked to do, you have been asked to limit you exercise to 1 hour, you have all decided to ignore that as you clearly know better & double the amount of time. The relevance of urban/rural is that in an urban scenario your risk of contact or the potential to spread the infection is likely to be greater due to the greater risk of contact.
> 
> I'm not surprised less chance of being identified



Re the urban/rural bit I may have misunderstood your original comment - I'm not sure. I was attempting to say I feel restrictions, guidelines or whatever should apply equally in rural and urban locations. I thought you were suggesting there should be a distinction between the two environments. Apologies if I had that wrong.

Have cyclists been asked to only exercise for one hour? If so I'm genuinely not aware of this and I haven't heard any fellow riders speak of this.

Personally I don't feel I'm flaunting any guidelines but as I say I'm unaware of cyclists being asked to only ride for an hour. Given I would normally ride five hours a day 3-4 times a week I feel two hours is reasonable.

Have you got a link please?


----------



## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

@Phaeton I know you highlighted my "civilised/responsible individuals" and I'd like to explain why I used the phrase.

Locally I've seen police vehicles patrolling moorland roads popular with walkers, close car parks in a local village and ask visitors to leave and close all access roads to one local village. Each place being busy with walkers, fell runners etc. All this was yesterday.

On the same day five fire crews were deployed to tackle a blaze on local moorland which was started by a group BBQing. The area had only just begun to recover from the devastating fires of 2018. The police had to close several roads.

This is the type of behaviour I'd describe as uncivilised and irresponsible. Hence my description of the many cyclists I know.


----------



## Rusty Nails (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Re the urban/rural bit I may have misunderstood your original comment - I'm not sure. I was attempting to say I feel restrictions, guidelines or whatever should apply equally in rural and urban locations. I thought you were suggesting there should be a distinction between the two environments. Apologies if I had that wrong.
> 
> Have cyclists been asked to only exercise for one hour? If so I'm genuinely not aware of this and I haven't heard any fellow riders speak of this.
> 
> ...



You will not get a link for the UK because the 1 hour limit does not exist.

It does in France, and is even stronger in Spain and Italy. Perhaps, or probably, we will be there soon and I will certainly not try to exceed or get around any limits that are imposed. I will listen to official advice and I may decide to be even stricter with my own limits.


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> On the same day five fire crews were deployed to tackle a blaze on local moorland which was _*started by a group BBQing.*_ The area had only just begun to recover from the devastating fires of 2018. The police had to close several roads.


According to the Fire Brigade the highlighted is Fake news


----------



## Glow worm (28 Mar 2020)

Just back from a 10 mile loop around the lanes and bridleways hereabouts out on the fen, and lots of cyclists out. All in pairs or what I assume were small family groups. No big groups which is encouraging. Whilst motorised traffic levels are markedly down, they are still higher than I would have expected. There must be a lot of essential car journeys going on.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised when our village magazine's COVID 19 advice page suggests 'go for a drive' as a recommended activity during lockdown, whilst failing to even mention cycling at all


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## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

@Rusty Nails thanks for confirming my understanding of the position. I've had a quick search on the BBC and it is clear we should exercise once a day.

For some riders it is simple to hide a 70, 80, 100 mile ride behind exercising "once a day." I would find this morally unacceptable hence my 25-35, two hours approach.


----------



## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> According to the Fire Brigade the highlighted is Fake news


Do you have a link please as it was widely reported as such on local media last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-lancashire-52068797

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-lancashire-52068797


Given the water table is currently very high on the moors it's hard to imagine this was a natural occurrence.


----------



## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

Milkfloat said:


> Just what is so special that you need two separate post offices and two separate filing stations? I have racked my brain and cannot think of anything that justifies putting so many people at risk.


One didn’t have what the other did, sold out, these post offices are in food
stores.
Food is plentiful, disinfectant / sanatiser , masks and disposable gloves have to be
hunted for on any given trip, so I do the shops in Two local towns, and call it quits
until the next weeks shop is undertaken.
I had to try to find these items because of the non compliance with the government guidelines
and common sense dead in the water, I knew the lockdown was imminent, and now a day
later it is here.


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> , you have been asked to limit you exercise to 1 hour


No such figure exists in the guidelines or legislation. Please stop making stuff up.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces


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## glasgowcyclist (28 Mar 2020)

> flaunting



It's flouting .... FLOUTING!

(sorry, it seems to be taking hold and is driving me nuts)


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> No such figure exists in the guidelines or legislation. Please stop making stuff up.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces


You have my groveling apologies, I would have put money on it coming out of Boris Johnson's mouth last Monday, but I clearly didn't I will now go & chastise myself with wet lettuce & the egg whisk.


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have my groveling apologies, I would have put money on it coming out of Boris Johnson's mouth last Monday, but I clearly didn't I will now go & chastise myself with wet lettuce & the egg whisk.


Wash it afterwards with soap and water.


----------



## pawl (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have my groveling apologies, I would have put money on it coming out of Boris Johnson's mouth last Monday, but I clearly didn't I will now go & chastise myself with wet lettuce & the egg whisk.




Not severe enough .You are a cyclist so the punishment must be appropriate Twenty lashes with a rusty chain☺️☺️😵🧞🤺⚔️⛓⛓⛓


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Not severe enough .You are a cyclist so the punishment must be appropriate Twenty lashes with a rusty chain☺☺😵🧞🤺⚔⛓⛓⛓


WOT! I have to pay for that each 3rd Thursday, I can't afford to do it twice this week.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> WOT! I have to pay for that each 3rd Thursday, I can't afford to do it twice this week.



But only do it for an hour, if that’s your daily exercise.


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## pawl (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> WOT! I have to pay for that each 3rd Thursday, I can't afford to do it twice this week.




Ok I am areal softie Just once with a well lubricated Shimano chain


----------



## wyre forest blues (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> This has been a very real topic of conversation amongst my fellow club members. We have all reached the conclusion, independently and through engaging in discussion on the club FB page, that +/- 2 hours, 25-35 miles is a reasonable amount of daily exercise.
> 
> Most of us would expect a ride to be 60-80 miles at this time of year and be out for 4-5 hours.
> 
> ...


Thank you Paul for your reply. I'm impressed with your club's response. I hope you don't mind but I have posted my question and your reply on our club forum.
Keep safe.


----------



## Banjo (28 Mar 2020)

Inspector Monkfish said:


> Not that I disagree with the sentiment. But HMG haven't warned anything of the sort have they?
> 
> British cycling and Chris Boardman may have suggested that it will happen. But there has been nothing on the subject from the government as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong then please link me to the warning


I saw the article on the BBC online news site. Cant find it again now to link to. The headline was cycle responsibly or lose the privilige (Or something very similar). When I read it I took it as an official warning but maybe I am wrong.

Either way If cyclists are perceived as flouting the rules and undermining the effectiveness of the lockdown we risk losing at least some of the freedom we currently enjoy.


----------



## simongt (28 Mar 2020)

cosmicbike said:


> I use my bike to cycle to work, and as someone classed as a key worker it would be interesting to see how that is approached...


So do I. All the staff at my workplace have been given 'letters of authority' from our CEO stating that we are classed as key workers to show if any of us are challenged whilst commuting.  And today a letter arrived in the post from a 'certain govt. dept.' confirming our status.


----------



## HLaB (28 Mar 2020)

On my last outdoor ride on Thursday everyone was riding solo  on the way out but coming back I passed three riders (thankfully on the other side of the road) in close proximity to each other


----------



## nickyboy (28 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> @Rusty Nails thanks for confirming my understanding of the position. I've had a quick search on the BBC and it is clear we should exercise once a day.
> 
> For some riders it is simple to hide a 70, 80, 100 mile ride behind exercising "once a day." I would find this morally unacceptable hence my 25-35, two hours approach.


Like you I've thought about this and decided to limit rides to about two hours. Cyclists are mega lucky to be able to continue but the purpose of cycling must be exercise alone and as such a couple of hours a day is more than enough.

It's a pandemic, not a holiday


----------



## matticus (28 Mar 2020)

Glow worm said:


> Just back from a 10 mile loop around the lanes and bridleways hereabouts out on the fen, and lots of cyclists out. All in pairs or what I assume were small family groups. *No big groups which is encouraging.*


Are we still talking about riding in groups?? I never saw any myself, but last weekend there was 1 video on Twitter, and quite a few anecdotes flying round: since then I have heard ZERO reports. Have I missed some?

It just seems a non-issue to me - all the groups got massive bollockings and it seems to have gone away.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2020)

HLaB said:


> On my last outdoor ride on Thursday everyone was riding solo  on the way out but coming back I passed three riders (thankfully on the other side of the road) in close proximity to each other



As a mileage muncher, how are you applying the restrictions?

I am fortunate in that 10 miles, particularly if I take my pushbike, is a sufficient amount of exercise to qualify for my normal daily amount.

Which is not the case for you and quite a few others on here who regularly cycle much further.


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Like you I've thought about this and decided to limit rides to about two hours. Cyclists are mega lucky to be able to continue but the purpose of cycling must be exercise alone and as such a couple of hours a day is more than enough.


No it musn't. I'm off to collect my clicked shopping tomorrow and that won't be exercise alone but is perfectly legal. Please please everyone stop making shoot up.


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

roadrash said:


> what do you mean by that.


Could be anything, from the minor thing of finally aborting the long-promised relaxation of the cycle racing regs, to the nuclear option on not lifting the ban on non-family group rides and terminating BC's govt-controlled funding and that time no non-racers coming to racing's aid.

In short, an official backlash against racing clubs.


----------



## HLaB (28 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> As a mileage muncher, how are you applying the restrictions?
> 
> I am fortunate in that 10 miles, particularly if I take my pushbike, is a sufficient amount of exercise to qualify for my normal daily amount.
> 
> Which is not the case for you and quite a few others on here who regularly cycle much further.


I hope sensibly I had cut back to 12 mile lunchtime sprints but I got the NHS texts and letters that they consider me vulnerable. Fortunately my nurse practitioner dealing with my specific case doesn't consider me to be so and says I shouldn't 100% self isolate just be cautious. Took Friday as a rest day and this was my activity today View: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/46324220

Fortunately I had upgraded my turbo and rollers (to smart ones) at the start of chemo, expecting not to be able to get out but I did. So for now they're a novelty but I suspect that will wear off.


----------



## Glow worm (28 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Are we still talking about riding in groups?? I never saw any myself, but last weekend there was 1 video on Twitter, and quite a few anecdotes flying round: since then I have heard ZERO reports. Have I missed some?
> 
> It just seems a non-issue to me - all the groups got massive bollockings and it seems to have gone away.



Agree. It’s the drivers apparently routinely flouting the laws I’m concerned about. ‘Twas ever thus’ tho as they say.
there’s loads driving out to remote spots on the fen to empty their dogs. Hopeless.


----------



## MontyVeda (28 Mar 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Just rode 10 miles home from a night shift and it's like a freakinn ghost town out there!


Riding home from work at lunchtime today... the one way system around the town centre is usually full of cars on a Saturday. Today I saw three and one was a road sweeper. A glance down Market Street; the usually packed pedestrianised outdoor market area... not a single stall and only two people in view. I usually have to wait for traffic to clear before making my way up Meeting House Lane; nothing. Only the sound of a squeaky shop sign blowing in the wind filled my ears... and the sound of the man with a harmonica filled my mind.


----------



## Rusty Nails (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Could be anything, from the minor thing of finally aborting the long-promised relaxation of the cycle racing regs, to the nuclear option on not lifting the ban on non-family group rides and terminating BC's govt-controlled funding and that time no non-racers coming to racing's aid.
> 
> In short, an official backlash against racing clubs.



It will not happen long-term any more than people will be banned from walking up Snowdon or other National Parks because of the actions of some, or everyone will be banned from shopping because some people are flouting the social-distancing guidelines, or that garden party BBQs will be banned forever because of the actions of some.

Were any of the groups of cyclists on organised club runs or were they just small groups of selfish idiots friends doing their own thing? I wish that cycling clubs would make it absolutely clear to their members that they will lose their membership if they do such a thing.

Stupid selfish things are happening all over the country at the moment, not just by cyclists.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2020)

HLaB said:


> I hope sensibly I had cut back to 12 mile lunchtime sprints but I got the NHS texts and letters that they consider me vulnerable. Fortunately my nurse practitioner dealing with my specific case doesn't consider me to be so and says I shouldn't 100% self isolate just be cautious. Took Friday as a rest day and this was my activity today View: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/46324220
> 
> Fortunately I had upgraded my turbo and rollers (to smart ones) at the start of chemo, expecting not to be able to get out but I did. So for now they're a novelty but I suspect that will wear off.



Looks to be a well thought out solution.

Handy you have the resources for a smart trainer, although as you say, wearing it out is the challenge.

I have a cheapo exercise bike which I hate, but I suspect I would hate a thousand pound smart set up almost as much.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (28 Mar 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Riding home from work at lunchtime today... the one way system around the town centre is usually full of cars on a Saturday. Today I saw three and one was a road sweeper. A glance down Market Street; the usually packed pedestrianised outdoor market area... not a single stall and only two people in view. I usually have to wait for traffic to clear before making my way up Meeting House Lane; nothing. *Only the sound of a squeaky shop sign blowing in the wind filled my ears... and the sound of the man with a harmonica filled my mind.*


Sounds like you accidentally stepped into a Western.


----------



## MontyVeda (28 Mar 2020)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Sounds like you accidentally stepped into a Western.


it certainly felt like it.


----------



## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Were any of the groups of cyclists on organised club runs or were they just small groups of selfish idiots friends doing their own thing?


Oh, I'm sure it was not an official club ride, but just a group of friends that only know each other from the club going on a ride all wearing the same colours and having coordinated it on club social media and club gps plotter accounts(!) 



> I wish that cycling clubs would make it absolutely clear to their members that they will lose their membership if they do such a thing.


Me too, but BC chose not to make banned group rides a disciplinary offence of any sort, didn't they?



> Stupid selfish things are happening all over the country at the moment, not just by cyclists.


Agreed. As I left on my ride today, I encountered four sheepish-looking teenagers in a parked hatchback on our road. They might all live together, but I think it unlikely.


----------



## lane (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> In which case it would be wise to cite an authoritative news source.
> 
> Carry on as you were. We're all getting a bit tetchy. Some of us are taking it out on others for being less than perfect in various ways.
> 
> On the positive side I went out to the shops for the first time in a week. My local mini supermarket had everything I needed, people were keeping their distance and the proprietor has somehow managed to retain his friendly disposition.



I did several posts earlier


----------



## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have my groveling apologies, I would have put money on it coming out of Boris Johnson's mouth last Monday, but I clearly didn't I will now go & chastise myself with wet lettuce & the egg whisk.


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> View attachment 511095


I am not a Labrador


----------



## bianchi1 (28 Mar 2020)

I did my usual road ride around the Malvern hills today. The trust in charge have closed all the car parking after last weeks crowds. It looks like the message has got through. A few walkers about all social distancing nicely. I made sure I gave folks a nice wide birth, which looked like it was appreciated. About 5 rodies all riding solo, a couple of electric mountain bike heading up the hill paths and a couple of full body armour mountain bikers making the most of the deserted paths.

All in all promising, but I guess the cold weather helped. If we are still in lock down come the warm spring I fear the crowds will return and more strict rules will follow.


----------



## PaulSB (28 Mar 2020)

wyre forest blues said:


> Thank you Paul for your reply. I'm impressed with your club's response. I hope you don't mind but I have posted my question and your reply on our club forum.
> Keep safe.


Of course. You're very welcome though all I've offered is the way people I ride with have reacted. Hope it helps.


----------



## ozboz (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I am not a Labrador


??? No one says you are , 
I take it you are not familiar with the comedian character actor Terry Thomas of the 50s -60s , if you you were you would recognise that a “Bounder” in connection with TT is in no way derogatory, 
Apologies if you are in anyway offended


----------



## Shadow121 (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Jeez the state of this thread. It starts with a claim about a totally fabricated government announcement and descends into rumour monging about a 1pm curfew and then condemning members of the public for failing to comply with invented requirements (masks are for medical personnel, and have never been recommended for members of the public).
> 
> A modest suggestion: read the official government advice and if you want to make a claim then substantiate it with a link to an authoritative source. Just because you think something stands to reason doesn't automatically make it right.


You don’t need to be told to protect yourself and family.
It’s safer to wear a mask and gloves, and to keep clear of others as often
as possible.
Why would anyone wait to be told any of this.


----------



## DCLane (28 Mar 2020)

Today I saw just solo / family / couples riding - way, way better than last weekend. I hope this continues.

Several were wearing masks though. I'm not sure that helped anyone.

Most of the roads were very quiet with the exception of the odd boy racer taking advantage of less traffic.


----------



## Phaeton (28 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> ??? No one says you are ,
> I take it you are not familiar with the comedian character actor Terry Thomas of the 50s -60s , if you you were you would recognise that a “Bounder” in connection with TT is in no way derogatory,
> Apologies if you are in anyway offended


I've very familiar with Terry Thomas thank you, however it was clearly a joke that worked only in my head, "Bounder", "Bouncer", but rest assured it takes more than a few words or images to insult me.


Shadow121 said:


> It’s safer to wear a mask and gloves, and to keep clear of others as often as possible.


No it's not, read up about it, unless you know what you're doing removing them you're putting yourself in more danger, that is why there is no Government advice about wearing them


----------



## classic33 (28 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I've very familiar with Terry Thomas thank you, however it was clearly a joke that worked only in my head, "Bounder", "Bouncer", but rest assured it takes more than a few words or images to insult me.
> No it's not, read up about it, unless you know what you're doing removing them you're putting yourself in more danger, that is why there is no Government advice about wearing them


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

I have a NATO respitaror and full NBC gear, and I'm trained to wear it, and more importantly, remove it without contaminating myself. Unfortunately, it's not getting used at present- it doesn't go with the black cloak a d scythe that are my current attire as I walk around the village.


----------



## Spiderweb (29 Mar 2020)

DCLane said:


> Today I saw just solo / family / couples riding - way, way better than last weekend. I hope this continues.
> 
> Several were wearing masks though. I'm not sure that helped anyone.
> 
> Most of the roads were very quiet with the exception of the odd boy racer taking advantage of less traffic.


Me too, no group cycling at all, thankfully it looks as though people are finally getting it.


----------



## ozboz (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I have a NATO respitaror and full NBC gear, and I'm trained to wear it, and more importantly, remove it without contaminating myself. Unfortunately, it's not getting used at present- it doesn't go with the black cloak a d scythe that are my current attire as I walk around the village.


😂😂“Darth Drago “ now that would be a sight !
I remember the the NBC stuff , do they still all them noddy suits ?


----------



## The Central Scrutinizer (29 Mar 2020)

I have for the most part always ridden solo but now feel a bit paranoid about going down some deserted lane and a vehicle pulling up and being threatened for my bike.
The other day i was out on a ride when i was passed by a van who then half parked on the kerb and watched me go pass before driving off again.
As i said it could just be my paranoia in these strange times but these thefts have been known to happen before in "normal"times.
Be safe people.


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

I'd love someone to threaten me for me bike. Being defensive tactics trainer for emergency services cyclists I'm pretty sure the headline in the Mail will read...

"6'4" 19 stone ex copper sticks bicycle up robbers arriss and parades him up the street while holding him like a lollipop."


----------



## hoopdriver (29 Mar 2020)

Now there’s a story I’d like to read, a lovely counterpoint to the gloom and doom


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

In the unlikely event it ever happens (low crime here in poshshire) I'll be sure to namecheck you when Ant and Dec interview me


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Mar 2020)

The Central Scrutinizer said:


> I have for the most part always ridden solo but now feel a bit paranoid about going down some deserted lane and a vehicle pulling up and being threatened for my bike.
> The other day i was out on a ride when i was passed by a van who then half parked on the kerb and watched me go pass before driving off again.
> As i said it could just be my paranoia in these strange times but these thefts have been known to happen before in "normal"times.
> Be safe people.


You saw a vehicle stop, then drive off again. That to be honest does sound like paranoia unless there were other factors you haven't mentioned.


----------



## derrick (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I'd love someone to threaten me for me bike. Being defensive tactics trainer for emergency services cyclists I'm pretty sure the headline in the Mail will read...
> 
> "6'4" 19 stone ex copper sticks bicycle up robbers arriss and parades him up the street while holding him like a lollipop."


Can i have some of the pills you are on.😂😂


----------



## matticus (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> "6'4" 19 stone ex copper sticks bicycle up robbers arriss and parades him up the street while holding him like a lollipop."


I suggest moving this to the
*Title of your Autobiography*
thread


----------



## The Central Scrutinizer (29 Mar 2020)

@Blue Hills You are probably right and i was over thinking things.
@Drago Yeah i get what you are saying and believe me i'm not just going to meekly give my bike away.


----------



## mjr (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> "6'4" 19 stone ex copper sticks bicycle up robbers arriss and parades him up the street while holding him like a lollipop."


Like a lollipop? I've seen what police do to lollipops on Kojak. You'll get Coronavirus doing that!


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

The Central Scrutinizer said:


> @Blue Hills You are probably right and i was over thinking things.
> @Drago Yeah i get what you are saying and believe me i'm not just going to meekly give my bike away.


However, If someone with a knife wants your bike, give it to them, it’s not worth getting stabbed over


----------



## hoopdriver (29 Mar 2020)

Nah, just pull a rod and smoke ‘em.


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Nah, just pull a rod and smoke ‘em.


I’ve no idea what that means


----------



## hoopdriver (29 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I’ve no idea what that means


Broaden your horizons. Read some Mickey Spillane


----------



## derrick (29 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Broaden your horizons. Read some Mickey Spillane


Or listen to Drago.🤣🤣


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Broaden your horizons. Read some Mickey Spillane


No thanks


----------



## nickyboy (29 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> No it musn't. I'm off to collect my clicked shopping tomorrow and that won't be exercise alone but is perfectly legal. Please please everyone stop making shoot up.


I'm talking about exercise/recreational cycling. Of course people can ride their bikes to get shopping or travel to work. That's so obvious as to not even warrant mentioning

I'm talking about people using cycling as their daily exercise but then riding way further than daily exercise would warrant. This pushing of the envelope of reasonableness (and we all have our own definitions of this, mine is about two hours) may lead to clearer instructions on what constitutes reasonable daily exercise.


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> However, If someone with a knife wants your bike, give it to them, it’s not worth getting stabbed over


Generally speaking, that's pretty sage advice. Of course, if you know what you're doing the bicycle is a weapon with greater range, a shield, and an excellent piece of equipment for a grounpin. Even the most determined knife nutter will struggle press home an attack with a broken shin, or with his face pinned to the tarmac with a crossbar across the back of his neck.

When this current malarkey is all done I'd be happy to meet up for a spot of group training.


----------



## Phaeton (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Generally speaking, that's pretty sage advice. Of course, if you know what you're doing the bicycle is a weapon with greater range, a shield, and an excellent piece of equipment for a grounpin. Even the most determined knife nutter will struggle press home an attack with a broken shin, or with his face pinned to the tarmac with a crossbar across the back of his neck.
> 
> When this current malarkey is all done I'd be happy to meet up for a spot of group training.


Assuming you've chosen the right bike, no ebike, too heavy to lift, no carbon it will dissolve on impact, no Brompton no cross bar, no Fixie as they are only ridden by Hipters who will run away anyway


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

Indeed! Imagine being robbed at knifepoint, readying yourself to spring into action and then realising that you're on your Ordinary!


----------



## Randombiker9 (29 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> 2m NOT 2ft (which is less than the minimum 1m recommended by the WHO)


I know typo lol 2m= 6ft


----------



## delb0y (29 Mar 2020)

They're talking about stricter lock-downs on the news this morning. This is what Gove thinks we should be doing now. Wonder what the more strict advice/rules will look like? 

"Asked to clarify how much time people could spend exercising outside their homes, Mr Gove said: "It depends on each individual's fitness." The government has not so far issued a time limit for exercise, but has urged people to stay local.

"I would have thought that for most, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes, or a cycle ride between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate," Mr Gove said.


----------



## lane (29 Mar 2020)

They won't be getting my bike - I will be maintaining my social distance at all times.


----------



## lane (29 Mar 2020)

Gove talking about exercise. Like most politicians not much first hand experience of what he is talking about. Now if it was waching box sets of game of thrones he would have more idea.


----------



## Blue Hills (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> When this current malarkey is all done I'd be happy to meet up for a spot of group training.



might be interested in that.

I trust the training would be safe for participants.


----------



## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

I've not had any real injuries in any of my own students, but I was safety officer for another trainer when a student broke their leg.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Indeed! Imagine being robbed at knifepoint, readying yourself to spring into action and then realising that you're on your Ordinary!



pfffft, what they going to do when I’m on my ordinary scratch my ankle with their toothpick?


----------



## Phaeton (29 Mar 2020)

My son works for a Retail chain that hasn't closed, they have changed the store to click & collect only but they are still serving, although they are doing what they can not to get close to customers, for the past few days he's been out in the carpark advising people from a distance what the new procedure is, that you just can't turn up & browse or currently return anything. However he is still mixing with other members of the staff, what if say a group of 4 of them went out on a ride together, or had a social drink at one of their houses? Not that they would nor do they intend to, that I know of.


----------



## matticus (29 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> My son works for a Retail chain that hasn't closed, they have changed the store to click & collect only but they are still serving, although they are doing what they can not to get close to customers, for the past few days he's been out in the carpark advising people from a distance what the new procedure is, that you just can't turn up & browse or currently return anything. However he is still mixing with other members of the staff, what if say a group of 4 of them went out on a ride together, or had a social drink at one of their houses? Not that they would nor do they intend to, that I know of.


 I would suggest they borrow some surgical scrubs to wear.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

delb0y said:


> They're talking about stricter lock-downs on the news this morning. This is what Gove thinks we should be doing now. Wonder what the more strict advice/rules will look like?
> 
> "Asked to clarify how much time people could spend exercising outside their homes, Mr Gove said: "It depends on each individual's fitness." The government has not so far issued a time limit for exercise, but has urged people to stay local.
> 
> "I would have thought that for most, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes, or a cycle ride between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate," Mr Gove said.



I don’t think he was talking stricter. He just saying for most 30 mins to an hour is probably about right. The “most” being a sedentary population who don’t normally exercise at all. For “most” more than an hour would be beyond their physical limits.


----------



## pawl (29 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> God your hair splitting is becoming tedious
> 
> I'm talking about exercise/recreational cycling. Of course people can ride their bikes to get shopping or travel to work. That's so obvious as to not even warrant mentioning
> 
> I'm talking about people using cycling as their daily exercise but then riding way further than daily exercise would warrant. This pushing of the envelope of reasonableness (and we all have our own definitions of this, mine is about two hours) may lead to clearer instructions on what constitutes reasonable daily exercise.






For exercise one to two hours mind you my current state of fitness I couldn’t do much more.


----------



## lane (29 Mar 2020)

My brother would be horrified if he was told he HAD to exercise for an hour. I could do the exercise for both of us.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

Just had a “discussion” on Twitter with someone who drives less than a mile to the nearest food shop. So for them even 15 mins would probably be too much.


----------



## dodgy (29 Mar 2020)

Riding locally today, 2 riders approaching in opposite direction waved and smiled saying 'alright!' at me. For the first time in my life I didn't ignore a fellow cyclist, but gave them a solid no and shaking head.

Don't judge me.


----------



## Mugshot (29 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> My son works for a Retail chain that hasn't closed, they have changed the store to click & collect only but they are still serving, although they are doing what they can not to get close to customers, for the past few days he's been out in the carpark advising people from a distance what the new procedure is, that you just can't turn up & browse or currently return anything. However he is still mixing with other members of the staff, what if say a group of 4 of them went out on a ride together, or had a social drink at one of their houses? Not that they would nor do they intend to, that I know of.


Is he getting any abuse from the public? 
Different set of circumstances of course but when I worked in DIY we'd go in on Easter Sunday as we'd have an opportunity to get some outside jobs done that we couldn't really with the shop trading, we'd get called all sorts for not being open


----------



## Phaeton (29 Mar 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Is he getting any abuse from the public?
> Different set of circumstances of course but when I worked in DIY we'd go in on Easter Sunday as we'd have an opportunity to get some outside jobs done that we couldn't really with the shop trading, we'd get called all sorts for not being open


He's a big lad so other than a few who wanted to argue he's not had much, few of the other have had a bit more trouble, on Thursday a guy came in from Tesco's & told them one of their checkout ladies had been spat in the face when they refused to let them have 4 of an item.


----------



## Edwardoka (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Generally speaking, that's pretty sage advice. Of course, if you know what you're doing the bicycle is a weapon with greater range, a shield, and an excellent piece of equipment for a grounpin. Even the most determined knife nutter will struggle press home an attack with a broken shin, or with his face pinned to the tarmac with a crossbar across the back of his neck.
> 
> When this current malarkey is all done I'd be happy to meet up for a spot of group training.


For god's sake get all Steven Seagal movies off Netflix NOW


----------



## Edwardoka (30 Mar 2020)

dodgy said:


> Riding locally today, 2 riders approaching in opposite direction waved and smiled saying 'alright!' at me. For the first time in my life I didn't ignore a fellow cyclist, but gave them a solid no and shaking head.
> 
> Don't judge me.


*judge* How did you know that they don't live in the same household?


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> *judge* How did you know that they don't live in the same household?


I saw a couple of riders the other day & thought that was silly, yet when I looked on Strava Flyby one of the was scalping the other


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> *judge* How did you know that they don't live in the same household?


Peehaps he wasn't feeling "alright"


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> *judge* How did you know that they don't live in the same household?



Perhaps he was concerned at their distance from him.

I've barely been out, but oncoming cyclists passing at under two metres presents a low enough risk as to not worry about.

Might be a bit unfortunate if the other rider coughed as he passed.


----------



## Edwardoka (30 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Peehaps he wasn't feeling "alright"


Honestly that is an interpretation that did not cross my mind.
If that's the case I am sorry and GWS .
If not, then *judge*


----------



## Venod (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> *judge* How did you know that they don't live in the same household?



I was going to post the above, two of our grandsons who live in the same house are riding together. I have also seen husband and wife and families out together.

Of course if the warning was to keep away I apologise.


----------



## Edwardoka (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Perhaps he was concerned at their distance from him.
> 
> I've barely been out, but oncoming cyclists passing at under two metres presents a low enough risk as to not worry about.
> 
> Might be a bit unfortunate if the other rider coughed as he passed.


I certainly wouldn't go near any other riders, hell, the last time I was out I rode on the wrong side of the road when going past a pedestrian.
A couple of years ago I was gobbed on by a rider who didn't do a shoulder check before parting ways with his phlegm, just as I was coming past.
Thoroughly unpleasant, I was raging, but it was unintended.

If that happened now I'd have no option but to do a violence. Possibly with the use of a bicycle frame as an offensive weapon with superior range as well as defensive capabilities. As the police dragged me away I'd probably shout a one-liner from an 80s action movie.


----------



## alicat (30 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> My son works for a Retail chain that hasn't closed, they have changed the store to click & collect only but they are still serving, although they are doing what they can not to get close to customers, for the past few days he's been out in the carpark advising people from a distance what the new procedure is, that you just can't turn up & browse or currently return anything. However he is still mixing with other members of the staff, what if say a group of 4 of them went out on a ride together, or had a social drink at one of their houses? Not that they would nor do they intend to, that I know of.



I like the sound of that chain of shops; could you tell us/give us a hint, @Phaeton? Thanks


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> . As the police dragged me away I'd probably shout a one-liner from an 80s action movie.



Yippee ki-yay cyclist f*cker!


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> I like the sound of that chain of shops; could you tell us/give us a hint, @Phaeton? Thanks


It's Screwfix, they were a little slow to get things into place, but they now seem to got most of it covered, they're actually doing a roaring trade, B&Q, Wickes etc. have all closed down I think so they are the logical option.


----------



## alicat (30 Mar 2020)

^^^^ Thanks, that's handy to know if I decide to embark on a project. 😊


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

I've been impressed by the few times I've used Screwfix.

It's one thing to list a wide range of products on a website, but they seem to have stock of all of theirs, certainly the ones I wanted.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> ^^^^ Thanks, that's handy to know if I decide to embark on a project. 😊





Pale Rider said:


> I've been impressed by the few times I've used Screwfix.
> 
> It's one thing to list a wide range of products on a website, but they seem to have stock of all of theirs, certainly the ones I wanted.


He says they have shrunk their offering, to try to concentrate on items that are really needed, all plumbing, electrics etc. anything that could be used by trades in an emergency situation are being kept, but some of the more 'luxury' goods are being dropped.


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

Aren’t Screwfix owned by Kingfisher who own B&Q ?


----------



## Edwardoka (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Yippee ki-yay cyclist f*cker!


Ho ho ho! Now I have a bicycle (which can be used as a weapon with superior range and defensively as a shield)
If it bleeds (when we strike it repeatedly with a bicycle) we can kill it.
Come with me if you want to live (behind this bicycle frame which can be used as a shield)
Get your ass to Mars (where, due to the lower surface gravity you can redirect the angle of your bicycle more quickly to get around your opponent's parry)


----------



## Drago (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Possibly with the use of As the police dragged me away I'd probably shout a one-liner from an 80s action movie.


"Stick around"?


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Ho ho ho! Now I have a bicycle (which can be used as a weapon with superior range and defensively as a shield)
> If it bleeds (when we strike it repeatedly with a bicycle) we can kill it.
> Come with me if you want to live (behind this bicycle frame which can be used as a shield)
> Get your ass to Mars (where, due to the lower surface gravity you can redirect the angle of your bicycle more quickly to get around your opponent's parry)



Very witty, although I only get a couple of the references.

I'm quite partial to an action film, but most of it is in one ear and out of the other.

Quite handy in that I can enjoy a repeat having largely forgotten what happened when I saw it the last time.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Aren’t Screwfix owned by Kingfisher who own B&Q ?


Yup, but B&Q are more face to face as it were, so closed


----------



## Mike_P (30 Mar 2020)

Are Tool Station open as well? Have both literally across a road, and down back accesses, from each other so use whichever is the cheapest.


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Are Tool Station open as well? Have both literally across a road, and down back accesses, from each other so use whichever is the cheapest.


https://www.toolstation.com/


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Are Tool Station open as well? Have both literally across a road, and down back accesses, from each other so use whichever is the cheapest.


No idea, but it's interesting that wherever one of them is, there's usually the other not far away & often on the same complex, I wonder who is following who.


----------



## Blue Hills (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I've barely been out, but oncoming cyclists passing at under two metres presents a low enough risk as to not worry about.
> 
> Might be a bit unfortunate if the other rider coughed as he passed.


This is the view of a medic just on bbc victoria derbyshire prog.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Yippee ki-yay cyclist f*cker!



Cycle Hard with a Vengeance


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Ho ho ho! Now I have a bicycle (which can be used as a weapon with superior range and defensively as a shield)
> If it bleeds (when we strike it repeatedly with a bicycle) we can kill it.
> Come with me if you want to live (behind this bicycle frame which can be used as a shield)
> Get your ass to Mars (where, due to the lower surface gravity you can redirect the angle of your bicycle more quickly to get around your opponent's parry)


D'ya feel lucky? Well do ya? (Because I've got a link to a competition where you could win £500 worth of Rapha kit*)

(* = one sock)


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Y'ya feel lucky? Well do ya? (Because I've got a link to a competition where you could win £500 worth of Rapha kit*)
> 
> (* = one sock)


Are they discounting again?


----------



## wormo (30 Mar 2020)

What distance do people think is reasonable, 30-40 miles over 2hrs or half this. Going to get first chance to get out after the restrictions came in.

Cheers


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

wormo said:


> What distance do people think is reasonable, 30-40 miles over 2hrs or half this. Going to get first chance to get out after the restrictions came in.
> 
> Cheers


I’m limiting myself to an hour or so


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I’m limiting myself to an hour or so


I'm limiting myself to my body, about 13 miles in about 1 1/4 hours


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

wormo said:


> 30-40 miles over 2hrs



Certainly no more than that.

Achieving that mileage more locally than you otherwise might will put you in a better position if questioned.

In other words, if you are only ever a few miles from home, the subject of how long you've been out may not be raised.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (30 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Just had a “discussion” on Twitter with someone who drives less than a mile to the nearest food shop. So for them even 15 mins would probably be too much.



I do that - fitting a week's provisions for a family of five into panniers being a little beyond me. Not sure why that is reprehensible?


----------



## mjr (30 Mar 2020)

wormo said:


> What distance do people think is reasonable, 30-40 miles over 2hrs or half this. Going to get first chance to get out after the restrictions came in.


Whatever you'd usually do without stops IMO. I think up to 50 miles and 4h is defensible. We need a fighting fit population.


----------



## rogerzilla (30 Mar 2020)

There's always the turbo (if you had one before they all sold out). Not much fun but OMG they get you fit, because it's relentless.


----------



## classic33 (30 Mar 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> I certainly wouldn't go near any other riders, hell, the last time I was out I rode on the wrong side of the road when going past a pedestrian.
> A couple of years ago I was gobbed on by a rider who didn't do a shoulder check before parting ways with his phlegm, just as I was coming past.
> Thoroughly unpleasant, I was raging, but it was unintended.
> 
> If that happened now I'd have no option but to do a violence. Possibly with the use of a bicycle frame as an offensive weapon with superior range as well as defensive capabilities. As the police dragged me away I'd probably shout a one-liner from an 80s action movie.


Couldn't you just shove your pump down his throat.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

wormo said:


> What distance do people think is reasonable, 30-40 miles over 2hrs or half this. Going to get first chance to get out after the restrictions came in.
> 
> Cheers



This is where it all goes wrong as everyone has their own opinion. Everyone else thinks they are right and others are wrong. Do what seems reasonable to you. Don’t post it online anywhere. Practise social and physical distancing. Take everything you need to fix minor mechanicals.


----------



## PK99 (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Aren’t Screwfix owned by Kingfisher who own B&Q ?





Phaeton said:


> No idea, but it's interesting that wherever one of them is, there's usually the other not far away & often on the same complex, I wonder who is following who.



IIRC Screwfix were the original. They were bought for big money, but the buyer omitted to isert a no competition clause in the deal. 

The founders of Screwfix pocketed the cash and started Toolstation.


----------



## MarkF (30 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Whatever you'd usually do without stops IMO. I think up to 50 miles and 4h is defensible. We need a fighting fit population.



I agree, cycling out on you own in the open is not the same as walking in the nearest currently well used park/woods.

My ride to Leeds market (for food) and back takes about 3 hours, Saturday was spoilt by several near misses from new cyclists on their bleedin phones.


----------



## wormo (30 Mar 2020)

Thanks for the advice. might stick to an hour or so for now.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> The founders of Screwfix pocketed the cash and started Toolstation.


----------



## hoopdriver (30 Mar 2020)

dodgy said:


> Riding locally today, 2 riders approaching in opposite direction waved and smiled saying 'alright!' at me. For the first time in my life I didn't ignore a fellow cyclist, but gave them a solid no and shaking head.
> 
> Don't judge me.


And that accomplished what?


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> IIRC Screwfix were the original. They were bought for big money, but the buyer omitted to isert a no competition clause in the deal.
> 
> The founders of Screwfix pocketed the cash and started Toolstation.


I think Toolstation might now be part of Travis Perkins (as is Wickes)


----------



## Glow worm (30 Mar 2020)

I thought Screwfix was a dating agency.

Pass me my coat someone.......


----------



## avecReynolds531 (30 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Mr Boardman agrees...
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/BritishCycling/status/1243613763145793539?s=19



Thanks very much for posting this. 
We have to hope we can remain turning pedals during this time.
...and for a little bit of hope for the future, Road CC have reported this: https://road.cc/content/news/government-announces-it-will-prioritise-shift-away-cars-272301


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

Glow worm said:


> I thought Screwfix was a dating agency.
> 
> Pass me my coat someone.......


Nah that’s Anglegrindr


----------



## CanucksTraveller (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> "Stick around"?



"See you at the party, Richter" has always been my favourite dismissal.


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> (as is Wickes)



Which reminds me of one of my court anecdotes for which you need to know that in the north east 'wick' is a term for a poor person of dubious moral fibre.

When asked about his client, one of the barristers said: "He's one of the few people I know who has his name written on his kitchen."


----------



## dodgy (30 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> And that accomplished what?


Never once expressed your disapproval of something, ever?


----------



## hoopdriver (30 Mar 2020)

dodgy said:


> Never once expressed your disapproval of something, ever?


You were disapproving of someone saying hello to you, in passing, from the other side of the street? Seriously?


----------



## dodgy (30 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> You were disapproving of someone saying hello to you, in passing, from the other side of the street? Seriously?



I was expressing disapproval at people still riding socially with people they don't live with. I know their faces, they go to Eureka often.


----------



## alicat (30 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> You were disapproving of someone saying hello to you, in passing, from the other side of the street? Seriously?



I read it that Dodgy was disapproving of two people out cycling together who didn't appear to be in the same household. I do much the same when I am scared and wanting safety, which is more likely to happen if everyone follows the rules.


----------



## dodgy (30 Mar 2020)

To be fair, my original post was abstruse. I'll try to do better. 

To be absolutely clear, I almost always greet other riders, but right now there'll be no pleasantries if I strongly suspect people are out on social rides with people they don't live with. Sometimes you don't know if they do, so they deserve the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

I think it's time for this again:

View attachment 510777
​


----------



## Venod (30 Mar 2020)

dodgy said:


> To be absolutely clear, I almost always greet other riders, but right now there'll be no pleasantries if I strongly suspect people are out on social rides with people they don't live with.



That's your prerogative but its the same as cyclists not acknowledging other cyclist because they are not wearing an helmet, the other cyclists will have no idea why they have been ignored and will just regard you as another antisocial bike rider.


----------



## mustang1 (30 Mar 2020)

Instead of banning cycling completely, why don't they just ban cycling in groups completely?


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

mustang1 said:


> Instead of banning cycling completely, why don't they just ban cycling in groups completely?


They have! (Other than household/family)


----------



## PaulSB (30 Mar 2020)

Well I cycled 29.69 miles in 2:02:47 this morning 🤫😀

On the ride I saw five police vehicles which is highly unusual. I could ride the route 100 times under normal conditions and see none. All in rural locations.

At two separate locations an officer was speaking to a driver who had clearly parked up to look at the view. One was offering a sheet of paper to the driver. A third was talking to a group of four walking a dog. 

One vehicle was tactical response. Presumably one can get taken out for ignoring social distancing? 😀


----------



## roubaixtuesday (30 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Well I cycled 29.69 miles in 2:02:47 this morning 🤫😀
> 
> On the ride I saw five police vehicles which is highly unusual. I could ride the route 100 times under normal conditions and see none. All in rural locations.
> 
> ...



And yet we're told police are desperately short of officers and need ex coppers back as volunteers.


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I’ve been riding with my shadow. Is that ok as I didn’t see much of my shadow over the winter?


I took my shadow out for a late night cycle las night,
nothing went to plan, first off no shadow,
but on a serious note, More cars passed me than on most other nights
when there was no mention of Covid19.
I suspected this, because I also noted more traffic during the daytime.

I hope this doesn’t reflect a lack of compliance with the rules, asking
people to only make necessary journeys, there was most definitely no
shops or chemists open last night.


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> I took my shadow out for a late night cycle las night,
> nothing went to plan, first off no shadow,
> but on a serious note, More cars passed me than on most other nights
> when there was no mention of Covid19.
> ...


Essential workers going to and from work?


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Well I cycled 29.69 miles in 2:02:47 this morning 🤫😀
> 
> On the ride I saw five police vehicles which is highly unusual. I could ride the route 100 times under normal conditions and see none. All in rural locations.
> 
> ...



As well as staying local, I would take an identity document with my address on it.

You can answer the 'what are you up to?' question by truthfully saying: "I live in (insert address within a few miles) and I'm just out for my daily ration."

The topic of how long you've been out is then unlikely to be raised, and even if the copper asks for proof of address, he will quickly lose all interest in you after you've shown him the document.


----------



## PaulSB (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> As well as staying local, I would take an identity document with my address on it.
> 
> You can answer the 'what are you up to?' question by truthfully saying: "I live in (insert address within a few miles) and I'm just out for my daily ration."
> 
> The topic of how long you've been out is then unlikely to be raised, and even if the copper asks for proof of address, he will quickly lose all interest in you after you've shown him the document.


Yes, this is good general advice. On this particular circular route my home is almost at the centre. On the flat route, again 30 miles, I did on Sunday I'd estimate I was no more than 12 miles from home at the furthest point.

I do carry ID but not with an address. Thinking about it my wife is in my phone contacts and this shows my surname and address.

Personally I view the distance and time as reasonable and justifiable at about 40% of what I usually ride.


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Essential workers going to and from work?


Hi @vickster 
I wish, boy racers, the kind who never listen.


----------



## Drago (30 Mar 2020)

I always carry a member of the same household to vouch for me.


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> As well as staying local, I would take an identity document with my address on it.
> 
> You can answer the 'what are you up to?' question by truthfully saying: "I live in (insert address within a few miles) and I'm just out for my daily ration."
> 
> The topic of how long you've been out is then unlikely to be raised, and even if the copper asks for proof of address, he will quickly lose all interest in you after you've shown him the document.


Has anyone on a cycle been stopped by the police in the UK yet?

The police seem to be focused on 
- speeding (radar van parked outside here on Friday night).
- groups in public spaces, and
- people driving far afield "to exercise".


----------



## vickster (30 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> Hi @vickster
> I wish, boy racers, the kind who never listen.


ah yes some of those nobbers are out and about around here, cars and motorbikes


----------



## lane (30 Mar 2020)

I won't worry unduly about the police stopping me. In the very unlikely event they do I am doing my daily exercise from home all within the rules. 20 to 30 miles seems OK to me.


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I always carry a member of the same household to vouch for me.


I just carry ID, the empty shopping bags, that will be full on the way home,
I also have their cards to make payments, so hopefully enough to justify
my being out.


----------



## PK99 (30 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Has anyone on a cycle been stopped by the police in the UK yet?
> 
> The police seem to be focused on
> - speeding (radar van parked outside here on Friday night).
> ...



Richmond park this morning


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> ah yes some of those nobbers are out and about around here, cars and motorbikes


Unfortunately one can chart their progress from not being able to
ride a bike without harassing people, to not being able to drive a car safely,
to hearing about their death at an early age from not being able to get with the plan
and be decent like the rest of us.
I do feel for them, but they seem oblivious to anything except their own
warped ways.


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

Looks like an adoring fan to me!


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Richmond park this morning
> 
> View attachment 511410


Is he telling a fisherman's tale?

Edit. I've realised what it is. He's saying "You see, you could use your bike as a defensive shield, or even a weapon, like this!"


----------



## derrick (30 Mar 2020)

We had a couple of dick head club riders meet up for a ride.. They will not be doing it again.


----------



## PaulSB (30 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I won't worry unduly about the police stopping me. In the very unlikely event they do I am doing my daily exercise from home all within the rules. 20 to 30 miles seems OK to me.


Agreed. I'm not at all concerned and feel my efforts are quite reasonable. I only made the original post to demonstrate here in Lancashire the police are definitely on the look out for those who won't follow/obey the guidelines.


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I won't worry unduly about the police stopping me. In the very unlikely event they do I am doing my daily exercise from home all within the rules. 20 to 30 miles seems OK to me.


Do you wear a mask over nose and mouth, does anyone.

I don’t think Our governments thought this through, 6 Foot apart just doesn’t cut it.
For example, someone farts, you will smell that more than 6 Feet away, no offence mean,
same with someone spraying weeds, that stuff I can smell a hundred feet away,
same with a paint shop, I know when our neighbour is spraying a car half a mile away.

Now an air borne virus is no different.

In Ireland we are now being told, the virus can live on cardboard and paper,
no surprise there, surprised to hear it can live on plastic bags for up to an hour though.
Were now told this is what is helping spread the virus over larger distances.

If people really want to help not to spread the virus, stay away from people,
I met no cyclists on my midnight trip, but I still had my mask on.


----------



## icowden (30 Mar 2020)

The masks are probably worse than not wearing a mask as they make you touch your face more often.
Covid is not an airborne disease as far as is known. You have to be hit by a dense droplet of cough or sneeze phlegm, or by passing hand to hand, or hand/infected object/hand. A cough or sneez is thought to effectively travel about 6 feet with the droplets falling pretty quickly. Hence the 6 foot / 2 metres guidance.

So yes staying far enough away that you don't get hit by an errant cough or sneeze is a good idea, as is keeping clean hands.


----------



## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Richmond park this morning
> 
> View attachment 511410


The rider could be an NHS person, no saying why the cop is in the throws of a dramatic experience ,


----------



## PK99 (30 Mar 2020)

ozboz said:


> The rider could be an NHS person, no saying why the cop is in the throws of a dramatic experience ,



Could be, but the question was has a cyclist been stopped.

the clear answer from the photographic evidence is yes


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Richmond park this morning
> 
> View attachment 511410






ozboz said:


> The rider could be an NHS person, no saying why the cop is in the throws of a dramatic experience ,


Yes. Or telling a fishing story. Or answering the question "Is it Ok to bring my 35 club-mates along tomorrow?"

But I think it's probably because cycling in RP was banned around Fri/Sat-ish - wasn't it?


----------



## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

And could be the cop stops him and asks why he is riding , and maybe the riders explanation is , because I’m an NHS worker , It doesn’t look as though the cop has issued an FPN ,


----------



## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Yes. Or telling a fishing story. Or answering the question "Is it Ok to bring my 35 club-mates along tomorrow?"
> 
> But I think it's probably because cycling in RP was banned around Fri/Sat-ish - wasn't it?


It was banned , but not for NHS staff and supervised children,
Judging the riders attire and bike , He doesn’t look as the usual club riders we see in the Park


----------



## mjr (30 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> On the ride I saw five police vehicles which is highly unusual. I could ride the route 100 times under normal conditions and see none. All in rural locations.


Only five?  On my ride to town and back yesterday, I suspect there were only four or five roads where I didn't see a marked police car in one direction! Usually I see none except the occasional blue light run on the A roads.

I did pass close to the town police station, as I often do. The motor compound was full of all the unmarked vehicles, such as the silver Fiestas and blue BMWs, which suggests this isn't an abnormally high level of policing, just that they were almost all in marked vehicles to be more visible. I also suspect they are concentrating on certain areas each day, adding to the visibility effect.



> One vehicle was tactical response. Presumably one can get taken out for ignoring social distancing? 😀


Around here, the traffic and armed units have been the same for a while, but it hasn't yet stopped driving crimes.


----------



## mjr (30 Mar 2020)

derrick said:


> We had a couple of dick head club riders meet up for a ride.. They will not be doing it again.


How do you know? They may just not be silly enough to let anyone know again.


----------



## Drago (30 Mar 2020)

I hear from a chum that all DVLA car tax enforcement (vehicle seizures and clamping) by both the DVLA and dibble has been suspended by ministerial order. So, dust off that untaxed car and head for Snowdonia right now!


----------



## mjr (30 Mar 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> [...] For example, someone farts, you will smell that more than 6 Feet away, [...] Now an air borne virus is no different.


No, it is different. I think you'll find that volatile chemicals (in farts or paints) are much smaller, lighter and more easily airborne than a virus.

As far as I can tell from a few reports online, Covid-19 is about 100nm across. Hydrogen sulphide (a rotten egg smell) is in the range of 0.1nm, about a thousandth of the width, and their weights are different in similar scale, so unsurprisingly that bad smell carries much much further on the breeze than the virus, like sand is more easily lifted than pebbles.



> In Ireland we are now being told, the virus can live on cardboard and paper,
> no surprise there, surprised to hear it can live on plastic bags for up to an hour though.
> Were now told this is what is helping spread the virus over larger distances.


TMN to @marinyork and possibly others there. Stick around and read the main "Coronavirus outbreak" thread in the News & Current Affairs forum. You might learn stuff. I have.


----------



## Adam4868 (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I hear from a chum that all DVLA car tax enforcement (vehicle seizures and clamping) by both the DVLA and dibble has been suspended by ministerial order. So, dust off that untaxed car and head for Snowdonia right now!


Wouldn't be so sure...unless this is just a threat.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Wouldn't be so sure...unless this is just a threat.
> View attachment 511453


I'm not good at English but that is diabolical for a Police force, "to buy 2nd hand car off the Facebooks"


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'm not good at English but that is diabolical for a Police force, "to buy 2nd hand car off the Facebooks"


It's a tweet - not an Obituary.


----------



## Adam4868 (30 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'm not good at English but that is diabolical for a Police force, "to buy 2nd hand car off the Facebooks"


Yea I know...like everyone doesn't know it's called Facefeck !


----------



## lane (30 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Agreed. I'm not at all concerned and feel my efforts are quite reasonable. I only made the original post to demonstrate here in Lancashire the police are definitely on the look out for those who won't follow/obey the guidelines.




They round here as well - using drones to spy on dog walkers!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

PK99 said:


> Richmond park this morning
> 
> View attachment 511410



That copper is failing to keep 2m distance or explain it with his arms.


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Yea I know...like everyone doesn't know it's called Facefeck !


I thought it was Fecesbook


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

I wouldn’t worry about being stopped on your bike. If you’ve ridden three counties away from home you may have some explaining to do. But if you are just on your own in the lanes or villages around about I can’t even see you being stopped or generating interest to be honest.


----------



## matticus (30 Mar 2020)

I'm open to new reports/evidence, but my _current _thoughts are:

- The worst case scenario is a £30 fine (? £60 ? Whatever.),
- My conscience is clear (YMMV) , and
- The Joe Skipper story* was pretty well known, yet I haven't seen any police/gov people chastising him (I still think he was unwise to make the ride public !!!)

M



*https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/325-km-strava-ride/


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> No, it is different. I think you'll find that volatile chemicals (in farts or paints) are much smaller, lighter and more easily airborne than a virus.
> 
> As far as I can tell from a few reports online, Covid-19 is about 100nm across. Hydrogen sulphide (a rotten egg smell) is in the range of 0.1nm, about a thousandth of the width, and their weights are different in similar scale, so unsurprisingly that bad smell carries much much further on the breeze than the virus, like sand is more easily lifted than pebbles.
> 
> ...


Good to know this information.
Me being cautious of it travelling in the air and with no idea of its size
weight and thus how far it could travel I just wanted to promote the
measure I take, in the hope it would encourage others to also wear
a mask.
I got coughed on two times by indivuals who should have been wearing masks,
as they were up close and in contact with food that others were then reaching for.


----------



## Drago (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Wouldn't be so sure...unless this is just a threat.
> View attachment 511453


That's moving traffic offences, not car tax enforcement.


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Wouldn't be so sure...unless this is just a threat.
> View attachment 511453


I guess that’s puts an end to driving the untaxed car I just bought to Snowdonia, just can’t get a break.


----------



## Adam4868 (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> That's moving traffic offences, not car tax enforcement.


Well I'm guessing if they want to check for tax they can ? Mot is suspended for six months anyway isn't it ?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Well I'm guessing if they want to check for tax they can ? Mot is suspended for six months anyway isn't it ?



I suppose it depends when the MOT expired. If it was in 1987 you probably have some explaining to do.


----------



## C R (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Well I'm guessing if they want to check for tax they can ? Mot is suspended for six months anyway isn't it ?


I imagine that missing VED is checked passively anyway, by any police enforcement camera, which I guess is the reason the lot mentioned above were caught.


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## Mike_P (30 Mar 2020)

Not seen any police checks but I gather some rather barking excuses have been given out by motorists on the A59 approaching Cote du Blubberhouses

Needed to deliver a lawnmower
Needed to pick up a puppy
The local vets are not open and need to go to one in Lancashire


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## I like Skol (30 Mar 2020)

DVLA have mobile enforcement units just cruising the backstreets in normal times. These are just discreet vans with minimal signage and a couple of small ANPR cameras mounted on the roof. If you are not observant you might just dismiss them as the van of a tradesman and they drive around waiting for the cameras to get a hit, at which point they pull over and slap a wheel clamp on the offending vehicle.
Highly amusing for a law abiding vehicle owner like me..... It's not like taxing a car is difficult nowadays, with email & postal reminders and auto direct debit renewal. That is of course assuming you intend to pay....


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Mar 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Not seen any police checks but I gather some rather barking excuses have been given out by motorists on the A59 approaching Cote du Blubberhouses
> 
> Needed to deliver a lawnmower
> Needed to pick up a puppy
> The local vets are not open and need to go to one in Lancashire


Not necessarily all that barking. Non food goods are still being delivered as far as I know. Presumably including lawnmowers.

I'd not really considered veterinary care. I wouldn't automatically dismiss it. I don't know.

The middle one is barking. Or rather yapping.


----------



## Adam4868 (30 Mar 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Not seen any police checks but I gather some rather barking excuses have been given out by motorists on the A59 approaching Cote du Blubberhouses
> 
> Needed to deliver a lawnmower
> Needed to pick up a puppy
> The local vets are not open and need to go to one in Lancashire


They seem pretty valid to me....
https://themanc.com/news/man-drives-112-miles-with-wife-in-the-boot-for-15-ebay-item/


----------



## Gunk (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Yea I know...like everyone doesn't know it's called Facefeck !



Or “faceboast”


----------



## lane (30 Mar 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> They seem pretty valid to me....
> https://themanc.com/news/man-drives-112-miles-with-wife-in-the-boot-for-15-ebay-item/



It's a lockdown. Being locked in the boot of a car would seem to going the extra mile to me.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> It's a lockdown. Being locked in the boot of a car would seem to going the extra mile to me.



The problem was going the extra unnecessary mile!


----------



## glasgowcyclist (30 Mar 2020)

I like Skol said:


> DVLA have mobile enforcement units just cruising the backstreets in normal times. These are just discreet vans with minimal signage and a couple of small ANPR cameras mounted on the roof. If you are not observant you might just dismiss them as the van of a tradesman and they drive around waiting for the cameras to get a hit, at which point they pull over and slap a wheel clamp on the offending vehicle.
> Highly amusing for a law abiding vehicle owner like me..... It's not like taxing a car is difficult nowadays, with email & postal reminders and auto direct debit renewal. That is of course assuming you intend to pay....



You’ve reminded me of an incident with a neighbour and I can’t believe it’s a whole year since it happened. I still laugh about it every time I see him. https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/car-owning-idiocy-thread-×341.242665/page-7#post-5572726


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## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

ALERT .....
Apparently there are scams trying to rip off people by picking up your mobile number sending a txt and saying youve been moving around to much and asking you to send money to a .gov_uk /cvpenalty site to pay a fine , leaving people open to bank fraud etc ,
beware folks and tell your friends etc


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## Drago (30 Mar 2020)

Christ Oz, that was set to earn me a few quid until you blew the whistle


----------



## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Christ Oz, that was set to earn me a few quid until you blew the whistle


Oh no ! 
Perhaps you should have put /cvpenalty/drago
Then I’d of kept quiet ,,,,,for a % age.


----------



## Maverick Goose (30 Mar 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Not seen any police checks but I gather some rather barking excuses have been given out by motorists on the A59 approaching Cote du Blubberhouses
> 
> Needed to deliver a lawnmower
> Needed to pick up a puppy
> The local vets are not open and need to go to one in Lancashire


Needing to deliver a lawnlower just doesn't cut it IMO...


----------



## Phaeton (30 Mar 2020)

I like Skol said:


> DVLA have mobile enforcement units just cruising the backstreets in normal times. These are just discreet vans with minimal signage and a couple of small ANPR cameras mounted on the roof. If you are not observant you might just dismiss them as the van of a tradesman and they drive around waiting for the cameras to get a hit, at which point they pull over and slap a wheel clamp on the offending vehicle.
> Highly amusing for a law abiding vehicle owner like me..... It's not like taxing a car is difficult nowadays, with email & postal reminders and auto direct debit renewal. That is of course assuming you intend to pay....


Not around here, it's a small white van with a huge camera on top forward facing, down & to the left, then words down the side of the van, in big black letters, such & such company (forget who) working in partnership with DSA or some such words, it was running around here week before last, going up & down each street.


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## ozboz (30 Mar 2020)

Maverick Goose said:


> Needing to deliver a lawnlower just doesn't cut it IMO...


The driver must have thought the Cop was a bit Green


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Maverick Goose said:


> Needing to deliver a lawnlower just doesn't cut it IMO...



I wonder who grassed them up?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> The worst case scenario is a £30 fine (? £60 ? Whatever.),



I would have thought that would only be the case if the police officer asks you to return home and you refuse. Of course you have to return via a safe route which means staying off the more direct A roads even with lighter traffic. So return home via the lanes. You can’t be fined for being out on your bike as you are simply out for exercise as per guidance.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ment-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption


----------



## Ming the Merciless (30 Mar 2020)

Sumption said that most of the police forces had acted reasonably but that Derbyshire officers had overstepped their powers: “The police have no power to enforce ministers’ preferences but only legal regulations, which don’t go anything like as far as the government’s guidance.”


----------



## Sea of vapours (30 Mar 2020)

The full interview with Lord Sumption on Radio 4 World at One is worth hearing. The sections quoted in the Guardian article come over rather emphatically when spoken with a considerable degree of conviction verging on anger. The interview starts at 17m in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gt59


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## Ashimoto (1 Apr 2020)

I ride solo as I prefer the peace and quiet and on the whole have seen plenty of solo riders. But Ive also seen quite a few groups, the largest I would have guessed around 8 or so which is hardly responsible. Like folk have said its only a mater of time before a more severe lockdown occurs which will drive me crazy not getting out for a ride


----------



## matticus (1 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Sumption said that most of the police forces had acted reasonably but that Derbyshire officers had overstepped their powers: “The police have no power to enforce ministers’ preferences but only legal regulations, which don’t go anything like as far as the government’s guidance.”


Derbyshire have backed down hugely on this (although of course they're not saying that they were wrong!).
Several force commissioners have stated that Derbys. were wrong.

Lessons learned


----------



## ozboz (1 Apr 2020)

Ashimoto said:


> I ride solo as I prefer the peace and quiet and on the whole have seen plenty of solo riders. But Ive also seen quite a few groups, the largest I would have guessed around 8 or so which is hardly responsible. Like folk have said its only a mater of time before a more severe lockdown occurs which will drive me crazy not getting out for a ride


To my knowledge it is not allowed to tide in groups other than with family members , so if the cops get them and they are issued an FPN for 60 sobs they deserve it , 
Hopefully the govt will not ban all cycling because of the sill y few . My Son phoned earlier he was fancying a nice ride around Richmond Park , now that’s been kyboshed he can go to Putney or Kingston but it won’t be very exiting there and I did say to him the River towpath may well be hammered so not much joy cycling there ,,


----------



## mjr (1 Apr 2020)

Ashimoto said:


> But Ive also seen quite a few groups, the largest I would have guessed around 8 or so which is hardly responsible. Like folk have said its only a mater of time before a more severe lockdown occurs which will drive me crazy not getting out for a ride


When did you see those groups and were they identifiable as any club? BC still hasn't made group riding during lockdown a disciplinary offence.

All this careless talk that tighter lockdown must come is encouraging people to ride further than they would otherwise. Like I've three loops that stay within 2km and one that stays within 1 km but now I'm saving those for if you idiots do talk the government into distance restrictions. Instead, I'm riding to places that I'd be effectively cut off from because they'll be outside the mooted distance limits and not on any reasonable route to essential shops or health services. I know I'm riding further than I would otherwise, but I fear I'll get bored riding only the short loops for weeks on end, then my health will suffer, then I'll be more burden on the stretched NHS, so this is a logical reaction to an expectation of tighter lockdown.


----------



## I like Skol (1 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> All this careless talk that tighter lockdown must come is encouraging people to ride further than they would otherwise. Like I've three loops that stay within 2km and one that stays within 1 km but now I'm saving those for if you idiots do talk the government into distance restrictions. Instead, I'm riding to places that I'd be effectively cut off from because they'll be outside the mooted distance limits and not on any reasonable route to essential shops or health services. I know I'm riding further than I would otherwise, but I fear I'll get bored riding only the short loops for weeks on end, then my health will suffer, then I'll be more burden on the stretched NHS, so this is a logical reaction to an expectation of tighter lockdown.


I'm amazed at the hypocrisy of your post and selfishness of your admitted actions! Your very weak justification at the end just doesn't cut it.


----------



## mjr (1 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I'm amazed at the hypocrisy of your post and selfishness of your admitted actions! Your very weak justification at the end just doesn't cut it.


Please point out any hypocrisy in that post or retract the accusation. I'm not riding excessive distances, maybe 1h to visit the first church that will be cut off and return home, but I am avoiding riding the short loops that I'll have to ride repeatedly to get enough exercise to preserve my health.


----------



## matticus (1 Apr 2020)

Even if you don't like what he's saying/doing, you can see that one cause is the crazy speculation about changes in the lockdown rules.


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## alicat (1 Apr 2020)

Let's all cool it and perhaps work out how we will cope with the tighter restrictions as and when/if they arrive. And as I type that I'm aware of having travelled to see my elderly father just before the lockdown so I'm in no position to cast any stones.


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## I like Skol (1 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Please point out any hypocrisy in that post or retract the accusation.



Does the below cover it?



mjr said:


> All this careless talk that tighter lockdown must come is encouraging people to ride further than they would otherwise





mjr said:


> I'm riding to places that I'd be effectively cut off from because they'll be outside the mooted distance limits and not on any reasonable route



EDIT: To correct the quotation brackets.


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## mjr (1 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Does the below cover it?


Nope. I stated a fact, then gave an example. No hypocrisy.


----------



## Drago (1 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Derbyshire have backed down hugely on this (although of course they're not saying that they were wrong!).
> Several force commissioners have stated that Derbys. were wrong.
> 
> Lessons learned


Although the police and crime commissioners by law have no influence of operational matters, so anything they think is inconsequential.

But, yeah, DerbsPlod went OTT. When I was on the beat little herberts used to put washing up liquid or food dye in the fountain in the village square - if we ever found out who they were the'y get arrested for criminal damage or public nuisance. I wonder why DerbsPlod think they're any different?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (1 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> When I was on the beat little herberts used to put washing up liquid or food dye in the fountain in the village square - if we ever found out who they were the'y get arrested for criminal damage or public nuisance. I wonder why DerbsPlod think they're any different?



The quarry dying for coronavirus is only partially true.

The water is contaminated, dangerous, and has been dyed before to deter swimming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpur_Hill_Quarry


----------



## Guzzi (1 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> I know I'm riding further than I would otherwise, but I fear I'll get bored riding only the short loops for weeks on end, then my health will suffer, then I'll be more burden on the stretched NHS, so this is a logical reaction to an expectation of tighter lockdown.



If your boredom will result in x% risk of serious illness/hospitalisation/death for yourself AND others and x is higher than the still unknown risk of CV-19 your logic is fine.
If it is true and you are an appreciable risk to yourself and others the State has a system for dealing with this that you might find very restrictive indeed.


----------



## matticus (1 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> The quarry dying for coronavirus is only partially true.
> 
> The water is contaminated, dangerous, and has been dyed before to deter swimming.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpur_Hill_Quarry


yes, that was a bit of a naughty story to hound Derby plod over! But they did bring this stuff on themselves (like Crying Wolf? I need a better analogy … )


----------



## Phaeton (1 Apr 2020)

Just got back from a solo ride & saw 4 late teens (suspect but ot good at ages) out together on MTB's


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## vickster (1 Apr 2020)

Brothers? 

Or yoofs being yoofs?  Were they also smoking weed? With seems to be the main pastime of male teenagers around here?


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## Adam4868 (1 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Just got back from a solo ride & saw 4 late teens (suspect but ot good at ages) out together on MTB's


My son 16 asked me the other day if he could have a go on my bike.Came back two hours later ! 
Me "where you been,you didn't answer your phone ?" 
Nowhere really and forgot my phone was on silent....I have my suspicions and it involves girls.


----------



## ianrauk (1 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Brothers?
> 
> Or yoofs being yoofs?  Were they also smoking weed? With seems to be the main pastime of male teenagers around here?


Not just males.


----------



## vickster (1 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> Not just males.


Don’t personally see girls around here smoking dope, maybe they’re doing it at home


----------



## Adam4868 (1 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Don’t personally see girls around here smoking dope, maybe they’re doing it at home


Sexism on CC...well I'm shocked 😁


----------



## vickster (1 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Sexism on CC...well I'm shocked 😁


Not sexist at all, what I see


----------



## ColinJ (1 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Don’t personally see girls around here smoking dope, maybe they’re doing it at home


I don't round here either, but there rarely seem to be groups of girls hanging around outside. Perhaps they _are _doing it at home!

Thinking back over the last 50 years or so, most dope smokers that I have seen _anywhere _have been male. 

_Cigarette _smoking though... I have noticed the decline in smoking among males but possibly an increase among females? I'll look up the stats... 

Nope, I am wrong... there has been a big decline in smoking among men _and_ women. More men than women still smoke, but the gender gap has decreased.


----------



## Phaeton (1 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> _Cigarette _smoking though... I have noticed the decline in smoking among males but possibly an increase among females? I'll look up the stats...


I have say despite the stats the feeling is that I see more young females smoking these days


----------



## PK99 (1 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I have say despite the stats the feeling is that I see more young females smoking these days



I sometimes think that too, but I think it is more a case that it is now unusual and stands out.


----------



## ColinJ (1 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I have say despite the stats the feeling is that I see more young females smoking these days


Yes, that's what I thought but perhaps it is just a case of the ones that tend to hang about in public.

2 women that I know who have been smoking for over 50 years have given up recently. (They say that they have given up completely but I'm fairly sure that they still have the odd cigarette when feeling stressed. They certainly are not smoking when I see them these days but they sometimes vape instead.)


----------



## Drago (1 Apr 2020)

I've just read the governments guidance. It doesn't say I can't paint myself in jam and walk up the road naked with an aubergine rammed betwixt my buttocks, so guess what I'll be doing tomorrow...then boasting about it on social media, and then deleting my account!


----------



## HLaB (1 Apr 2020)

Went out for a short ride at lunch today and I saw no group riders just a couple of solo riders. (Not a great sample as it wasn't a long ride). The 1 mile of park I have to cut through to avoid the Parkway (akin to a urban motorway) although quieter was still a bit busy for my liking. I may brave the Parkway on Sunday if I go out as I suspect the predicted good weather will bring out more people.


----------



## slowmotion (1 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> Went out for a short ride at lunch today and I saw no group riders just a couple of solo riders. (Not a great sample as it wasn't a long ride). The 1 mile of park I have to cut through to avoid the Parkway (akin to a urban motorway) although quieter was still a bit busy for my liking. I may brave the Parkway on Sunday if I go out as I suspect the predicted good weather will bring out more people.


I've got a regular ten mile route on the Thames Path and now know which parts of it are too narrow to maintain 2 metre separation from other users. I got fed up with runners coming too close while breathing hard. It's quite easy to nip into side streets to avoid the pinch points and a lot more fun. Going out fairly late in the evening helps a lot too.


----------



## nickyboy (1 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> When did you see those groups and were they identifiable as any club? BC still hasn't made group riding during lockdown a disciplinary offence.
> 
> All this careless talk that tighter lockdown must come is encouraging people to ride further than they would otherwise. Like I've three loops that stay within 2km and one that stays within 1 km but now I'm saving those for if you idiots do talk the government into distance restrictions. Instead, I'm riding to places that I'd be effectively cut off from because they'll be outside the mooted distance limits and not on any reasonable route to essential shops or health services. I know I'm riding further than I would otherwise, but I fear I'll get bored riding only the short loops for weeks on end, then my health will suffer, then I'll be more burden on the stretched NHS, so this is a logical reaction to an expectation of tighter lockdown.


No, it's encouraging you to ride further. I follow a heap of people on Strava and I use the flyby facility to look at everyone I see cycling on my rides. There is absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that they are riding further in advance of a further restriction in cycling. Quite the opposite in fact. It's abundantly clear that some are significantly curtailing riding distances following government advice that cycling should be for exercise and not recreation

Massively unhelpful for the discussion for you to refer to posters as idiots too. Says rather more about you than it does about them


----------



## anothersam (2 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I’ve been riding with my shadow. Is that ok as I didn’t see much of my shadow over the winter?


Perhaps, like mine, it prefers to keep better company.


----------



## Drago (2 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> I've just read the governments guidance. It doesn't say I can't paint myself in jam and walk up the road naked with an aubergine rammed betwixt my buttocks, so guess what I'll be doing tomorrow...then boasting about it on social media, and then deleting my account!


That went well, very refreshing. I'll do it again tomorrow but with cactus. Well, the government hasn't specifically said I couldn't do it, so it must be alright.


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> No, it's encouraging you to ride further. I follow a heap of people on Strava and I use the flyby facility to look at everyone I see cycling on my rides. There is absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that they are riding further in advance of a further restriction in cycling. Quite the opposite in fact. It's abundantly clear that some are significantly curtailing riding distances following government advice that cycling should be for exercise and not recreation
> 
> Massively unhelpful for the discussion for you to refer to posters as idiots too. Says rather more about you than it does about them


Spot on. For most of us the only measure we have is Strava and I acknowledge it's simple to make rides private. All the people I follow, the majority from my club, are riding 20-30 miles if at all. For most this is a drop of at least 40- 50 miles per ride. I feel this is reasonable approach to the situation. To date the exceptions I've seen are a 100 mile ride and a 71.

As an alternative the club has put a lot of effort in to organising Zwift events. All our real world events are cancelled but on Zwift we now have weekly events including a chainy, hill climb, TT and club ride. All we need is a bit of imagination.

Far from encouraging people to ride more most are reducing their mileage. Out of all cyclists those who come off best are those who commute, use a bike as their means of transport or usually ride for 1-2 hours.

For all the whining about clubs, roadies etc. I see no acknowledgement of this nor of the fact many of us are reining in our mileages when others don't need to.

I'm pleased for those who continue to ride normally, can we stop criticising others who are making a responsible contribution.


----------



## matticus (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> No, it's encouraging you to ride further. I follow a heap of people on Strava and I use the flyby facility to look at everyone I see cycling on my rides. There is absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that they are riding further in advance of a further restriction in cycling. Quite the opposite in fact. It's abundantly clear that some are significantly curtailing riding distances following government advice that cycling should be for exercise and not recreation


Clearly there are 2 opposing forces here:
- folks wanting to do the "right thing", and thus reducing mileage
- some hearing the "hard lockdown" speculation, and making hay while the sun shines

You'd need to look at a heck of a lot of riders to prove anything about the TWO effects.
(and Strava does NOT make good data - folks can make rides private... )


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> All the people I follow, the majority from my club, are riding 20-30 miles if at all. For most this is a drop of at least 40- 50 miles per ride. I feel this is reasonable approach to the situation.


People may be riding less far than normal (which is itself a bad thing for public health) but that doesn't contradict my belief that a lot are riding further than they would be without the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt over a tighter limit.

Also, as you know, Strava is skewed.



> For all the whining about clubs, roadies etc. I see no acknowledgement of this nor of the fact many of us are reining in our mileages when others don't need to.
> 
> I'm pleased for those who continue to ride normally, can we stop criticising others who are making a responsible contribution.


As above, I'm not sure reining in is a good thing, but I agree that stuff like arranging online riding and supporting people riding alone and skipping the coffee stop are great things which should be praised more.


----------



## Phaeton (2 Apr 2020)

Who's good at laws of probability? 

Is there any difference in risk to either the rider or the public if a single rider does 5x 10 miles rides over 5 days than a single rider doing 1x 50 mile ride within the same 5 day period.


----------



## Dogtrousers (2 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> (and Strava does NOT make good data - folks can make rides private... )


Also I've noticed that if I ride a simulated ride on my turbo, using a video or a GPX track, then it gets recorded as if it happened in the simulated location. I've not tried uploading any of these to Strava, so I don't know how they'd appear but they show the track in its location on RideWithGPS.

So if I had uploaded my recent spin around the marshes by Mont St Michel to Strava then I could have alarmed les Gendarmes.


----------



## matticus (2 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Who's good at laws of probability?
> 
> Is there any difference in risk to either the rider or the public if a single rider does 5x 10 miles rides over 5 days than a single rider doing 1x 50 mile ride within the same 5 day period.


All things being equal? none at all. In reality, the rider will take a different route, etc etc...

And the risk from riding a bike is about a billionth of the risk from visiting the supermarket, so stop worrying about it!


----------



## Phaeton (2 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> And the risk from riding a bike is about a billionth of the risk from visiting the supermarket, so stop worrying about it!


Oh I ain't worrying about it, well not the bike riding, but I do have concerns about having to visit the supermarket


----------



## Venod (2 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Is there any difference in risk to either the rider or the public if a single rider does 5x 10 miles rides over 5 days than a single rider doing 1x 50 mile ride within the same 5 day period.



I would say that if a rider does 5 x 10 miles close to home and a populous area he would be at more risk than doing fifty out in the country with no population encounters, but the inverse also applies, so no I am no good at the laws of probability.


----------



## Kevfm (2 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Who's good at laws of probability?
> 
> Is there any difference in risk to either the rider or the public if a single rider does 5x 10 miles rides over 5 days than a single rider doing 1x 50 mile ride within the same 5 day period.


No. But if everyone individually tries to work out how they can push the boundaries of the government advice to suit themselves the overall effect of social distancing will be less. These are extraordinary times; we all need to stop doing most of the things we normally do and IMO than includes exercising outside for 2+ hours at a time. I normally ride a motorcycle for leisure regularly, on my own and wearing quite an effective cough and sneeze proof mask over my head. I'm not doing this at the moment even though the risk of catching or spreading COVID-19 is low. And I'm not going shopping on the bike or anything similar to get around the guidance.

Just follow the guidance and don't take the pi55.


----------



## nickyboy (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> People may be riding less far than normal (which is itself a bad thing for public health) but that doesn't contradict my belief that a lot are riding further than they would be without the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt over a tighter limit.
> 
> Also, as you know, Strava is skewed.
> 
> ...


Hang on...

Previously you said you felt that people were being encouraged to ride further

Now you're saying it's a "belief" not backed up by any evidence at all other than how you're riding

I'm saying I have hard data (small sample, yes etc etc) that shows people are doing the opposite of what you "believe"

Just give me the data to back up your belief. Otherwise it's just another unsubstantiated opinion and should be treated as such


----------



## Mr Celine (2 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Who's good at laws of probability?
> 
> Is there any difference in risk to either the rider or the public if a single rider does 5x 10 miles rides over 5 days than a single rider doing 1x 50 mile ride within the same 5 day period.


That depends how many people in the open air that you pass (pedestrians, joggers, dog walkers, cyclists etc) in the two scenarios. If your 50 mile ride was five loops of your 10 mile ride then there's likely to be no difference in risk at all. 
But if your 50 mile ride took you out into unpopulated countryside and you pass fewer people than you would in five 10 mile rides then the risk is lower.


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Previously you said you felt that people were being encouraged to ride further
> 
> Now you're saying it's a "belief" not backed up by any evidence at all other than how you're riding


Beliefs can be informed by evidence. See Bayesian statistics for an introduction: "probability expresses a degree of belief in an event."



nickyboy said:


> I'm saying I have hard data (small sample, yes etc etc) that shows people are doing the opposite of what you "believe"


Really? Earlier you posted that you had very soft data (not only small and not a sample but unrepresentative and probably incomplete because of private/hidden/untracked rides by the riders involved) that showed something entirely different (that they were publicly admitting to riding less far than pre-lockdown) and not inconsistent with my belief (that they are riding further than they would if there was no perceived threat of tighter lockdown), so what have you found now?



nickyboy said:


> Just give me the data to back up your belief.


Sorry, I'm not giving you access to my cycling social network accounts. Would you give me access to all of yours?



nickyboy said:


> Otherwise it's just another unsubstantiated opinion and should be treated as such


Of course. Just like all the others that you seem to believe.


----------



## Vantage (2 Apr 2020)

To quote @Yellow Saddle 

Ride a bike, drink a beer.


----------



## nickyboy (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Beliefs can be informed by evidence. See Bayesian statistics for an introduction: "probability expresses a degree of belief in an event."
> 
> 
> Really? Earlier you posted that you had very soft data (not only small and not a sample but unrepresentative and probably incomplete because of private/hidden/untracked rides by the riders involved) that showed something entirely different (that they were publicly admitting to riding less far than pre-lockdown) and not inconsistent with my belief (that they are riding further than they would if there was no perceived threat of tighter lockdown), so what have you found now?
> ...


I'll ask the question again as you are avoiding it

Do you have any data to back up your assertion that people are riding further?

I'm not interested in seeing the data. I just want to know if you have data that backs up your "belief".


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I'll ask the question again as you are avoiding it
> 
> Do you have any data to back up your assertion that people are riding further?
> 
> I'm not interested in seeing the data. I just want to know if you have data that backs up your "belief".


Yes but it's far from robust. Now a question for you: do you see that your data is about a different claim entirely?


----------



## nickyboy (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Yes but it's far from robust. Now a question for you: do you see that your data is about a different claim entirely?


Average ride length of sample with no threat of lockdown = X

Average ride length of sample with same riders with threat of lockdown < X 

Threat of lockdown reduces ride length


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> People may be riding less far than normal (which is itself a bad thing for public health) but that doesn't contradict my belief that a lot are riding further than they would be without the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt over a tighter limit.
> 
> Also, as you know, Strava is skewed.
> 
> ...



Personally I don't know anyone who is expressing fear, doubt or uncertainty over cycling. This would be over a club membership of 170+ so I feel is a reasonable sample. I do know one person who has lost his motivation but is at least now back on the turbo. This is where banning cycling in pairs or more doesn't work. This guy is a good friend and I know a bit of encouragement would soon have him out for a ride as a pair.

I do have two very close friends who are extremely stressed and anxious by the whole situation but this is not cycling related. I'd love to see them and give out hugs!!

I agree people reducing riding could be harmful but the people I'm thinking of are extremely fit and unlikely to come to harm by reining things in. I do feel it's important to show social responsibility at this time. Riders reducing their miles is a contribution because they're not flaunting the freedom to cycle at everyone whose lives are badly restricted.

I agree Strava can give a skewed image by people going private. I can only counter this by saying everyone I expect to see posting rides is doing so.


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Average ride length of sample with no threat of lockdown = X
> 
> Average ride length of sample with same riders with threat of lockdown < X
> 
> Threat of lockdown reduces ride length


So is that a yes, you see that's different to my suggestion:

Average ride length under lockdown with no threat of tighter lockdown = L

Average ride length of same rides with threat of tighter lockdown > L 

Threat of lockdown increases ride length.


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Personally I don't know anyone who is expressing fear, doubt or uncertainty over cycling.


That's rather beside the point of there being FUD over a tighter lockdown. For an example of that, just look at this thread's title!


----------



## Rusty Nails (2 Apr 2020)

Vantage said:


> To quote @Yellow Saddle
> 
> Ride a bike, drink a beer.



Much more fun, and healthy, than finding things to criticise all the time.


----------



## matticus (2 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Average *LOGGED* ride length of sample with no threat of lockdown = X
> 
> Average *LOGGED* ride length of sample with same riders with threat of lockdown < X
> 
> Threat of lockdown reduces *LOGGED* ride length


<my bold>
There is enormous social pressure to reduce riding (and ride length). The most likely rides to not be logged will be the longest.

Now as I said above, I think _most _riders are reducing their rides, but your data collection method is doomed to underestimate* the minority who may be doing the opposite (for whatever reason). 
*both the number of riders, and the length of their rides.


----------



## carlosfandangus (2 Apr 2020)

I have seen far more cyclists out that have "dusted down" the mountain bike at the back of the garage and are using this as a form of exercise


----------



## fossyant (2 Apr 2020)

I know of a couple of folk pushing the limit of what's really acceptable for bike rides. Out every day for 4 hours. Erm no. Maybe two hours is it. Mine are currently about 90 minutes as I've a few circuits I do - all low risks of stacking it (off road).

One of my mates is riding all over Ghent at the minute, and occasionally with a friend - putting in some serious miles. That said, he's not working as they have been furlonged, so what are you going to do mental health wise - he's in a flat, on his own. It's a bit different for me, family of 4, 5 cats, still working (from home) - I'm busy still.. He does suffer from depression, so it's probably what's keeping him sane at the minute.

You possibly have to look at personal circumstances as well ! I'm doing more rides as I'm not sat in a car for 2 hours a day. I'm also avoiding busy times as much as possible. I've got quite a few colleagues that have openly said 'oh I've been lazy' - you can't keep being lazy though.


----------



## Shadow121 (2 Apr 2020)

I got stopped for the first time cycling last night, the Guard spent more time
questioning me than he spent on the cars before me.

I had my ID and was inside the limits, but still don’t get how he was more interested in
me than in the cars, I guess he not into cycling.


----------



## fossyant (2 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> I've just read the governments guidance. It doesn't say I can't paint myself in jam and walk up the road naked with an aubergine rammed betwixt my buttocks, so guess what I'll be doing tomorrow...then boasting about it on social media, and then deleting my account!



Dont, wasn't you I've seen on my MTB twitter feeds where a guy comes across a nekkid rambler, with nothing other than a rucksack on


----------



## Drago (2 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> I have seen far more cyclists out that have "dusted down" the mountain bike at the back of the garage and are using this as a form of exercise


So responsible riders have ceased cycling and are getting their exercise fix by vigorous dusting their bikes off instead? Very public spirited of them.


----------



## carlosfandangus (2 Apr 2020)

Should have said "people" we all know that not everyone on a bike is a cyclist


----------



## Venod (2 Apr 2020)

My observations from being a gentleman of leisure and riding most days of the week, there are more cyclist out than normal, Strava flyby seems to indicate that excessively long rides are not the norm, but a lot of the extra cyclist might not ride longer distances anyway, there are still a few longer rides though.
What is very noticable is the number of walkers, be it with dogs or without, its as if they have seen the daily exercise info and think its compulsory, I am having to be be very creative when planning a ride to avoid them.


----------



## fossyant (2 Apr 2020)

Venod said:


> What is very noticable is the number of walkers, be it with dogs or without, its as if they have seen the daily exercise info and think its compulsory, I am having to be be very creative when planning a ride to avoid them.



Same here, and increasing poo bags being left. I came down a tricky descent yesterday, it's not on a 'right of way' of any sort (a man made 'short cut'). 2 dog walkers and about 4 walkers picking their way up this rocky climb (there is a perfectly good surfaced route near to it). Anyway, I stick to the far left of the track, 2m-4m away from them. I think the sound of pinging boulders kept them out of the way.


----------



## Glow worm (2 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> It's a bit different for me, family of 4, 5 cats, still working (from home) .



Good to hear the cats are still in work!

I tend to be doing just 10 mile rides most days. Am about to go on one shortly. I take my binoculars and a brew (flask). I'm thinking perhaps I shouldn't stop for a brew now though, even though I'm in fairly quiet country and mostly farm tracks/ bridleways normally well away from any people.


----------



## fossyant (2 Apr 2020)

Glow worm said:


> Good to hear the cats are still in work!



Causing me work !


----------



## Drago (2 Apr 2020)

Glow worm said:


> I tend to be doing just 10 mile rides most days. Am about to go on one shortly. I take my binoculars and a brew (flask).


And you always stop for a quick brew on that bench behind the flats where all the lady nurses live


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> That's rather beside the point of there being FUD over a tighter lockdown. For an example of that, just look at this thread's title!


No, it's not beside the point. You're post raised the question of FUD suggesting it's a thing. The thread title doesn't come close to including FUD.


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> No, it's not beside the point. You're post raised the question of FUD suggesting it's a thing. [...]


Not "FUD over cycling" it didn't.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> I got stopped for the first time cycling last night, the Guard spent more time
> questioning me than he spent on the cars before me.
> 
> I had my ID and was inside the limits, but still don’t get how he was more interested in
> me than in the cars, I guess he not into cycling.



What limits?


----------



## vickster (2 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> What limits?


Is @Shadow121 in Ireland where there’s a 2km limit


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Smells of cabin fever in this thread.


----------



## Glow worm (2 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> And you always stop for a quick brew on that bench behind the flats where all the lady nurses live


Damn it, busted!


----------



## Glow worm (2 Apr 2020)

FUD?


----------



## vickster (2 Apr 2020)

Glow worm said:


> FUD?


Apparently...
https://www.webopedia.com/amp/TERM/F/FUD.html 

I had to look it up too


----------



## Glow worm (2 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Apparently...
> https://www.webopedia.com/amp/TERM/F/FUD.html
> 
> I had to look it up too



Ah thanks - I was convinced the F stood for something else !


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Don’t you mean Elmer Fudd?


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> People may be riding less far than normal (which is itself a bad thing for public health) but that doesn't contradict *my belief that a lot are riding further than they would be without the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt over a tighter limit.*
> 
> Also, as you know, Strava is skewed.
> 
> ...





mjr said:


> Not "FUD over cycling" it didn't.



It seems to me your post with the relevant bit highlighted is specifically referring to riding and concern tighter limits may be introduced.

If your sentence isn't referring to cycling what are you saying?


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> It seems to me your post with the relevant bit highlighted is specifically referring to riding and concern tighter limits may be introduced.
> 
> If your sentence isn't referring to cycling what are you saying?


It's referring to a tighter limit for cycling, not cycling in general. I struggle to see how that could have been made any clearer.


----------



## Shadow121 (2 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Is @Shadow121 in Ireland where there’s a 2km limit


Yes, in Ireland, 2km limit for exercise purposes.


----------



## Shadow121 (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> It's referring to a tighter limit for cycling, not cycling in general. I struggle to see how that could have been made any clearer.


Masks and gloves while cycling would go a long way to lessen any
risks posed, probably be much better than cutting the
current limits.


----------



## Shadow121 (2 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> What limits?


There’s a 2km limit on us regarding how far we can travel for exercise in Ireland.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> There’s a 2km limit on us regarding how far we can travel for exercise in Ireland.



Ah right, you didn’t say you were Ireland. No limits in UK.


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> It's referring to a tighter limit for cycling, not cycling in general. I struggle to see how that could have been made any clearer.


I'm sorry but you're not making any sense. Past experience tells me this is the point at which it's best to withdraw from this conversation.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> Masks and gloves while cycling would go a long way to lessen any
> risks posed, probably be much better than cutting the
> current limits.



Just keeping away from others does far more. The mask would just be full of your saliva and sweat and hinder your breathing whilst cycling. Gloves make no difference for obvious reasons.


----------



## vickster (2 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Just keeping away from others does far more. The mask would just be full of your saliva and sweat and hinder your breathing whilst cycling. Gloves make no difference for obvious reasons.


And apparently once masks are damp, they no longer stop any virus from going in and out.


----------



## Dogtrousers (2 Apr 2020)

Shadow121 said:


> Masks and gloves while cycling would go a long way to lessen any
> risks posed,


I'm not so sure of that. Typically the advice * is that the place for masks is in a clinical situation. I'm not an expert - but it's not a given that a mask is automatically a useful thing in all situations just because it "stands to reason". You'd need to be sure of what the risks while cycling are, and then have some expertise to say just how a mask would mitigate those risks. Maybe it would, I'm not an expert, but I'm sceptical.

Also, it's possible that the general public using masks willy-nilly just diverts supply of them from where they are most needed.

* https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/01/23/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-what-you-need-to-know/


----------



## lane (2 Apr 2020)

Yes just give everyone else a wide berth as possible.


----------



## hoopdriver (2 Apr 2020)

Thus far the WHO advice is to keep masks for the health professionals who genuinely need them


----------



## mjr (2 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I'm sorry but you're not making any sense. Past experience tells me this is the point at which it's best to withdraw from this conversation.


That's probably better than attempting to defend replying to "FUD over a tighter limit" with a post about "FUD over cycling" any further.


----------



## Shadow121 (2 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Ah right, you didn’t say you were Ireland. No limits in UK.


That I did not know, we are really limited here.
But for essential trips to the shops doctors chemist and such,
we are allowed to go further afield, but nothing silly like driving
50 miles when there are local stores and facilities down the road.


----------



## PaulSB (2 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> That's probably better than attempting to defend replying to "FUD over a tighter limit" with a post about "FUD over cycling" any further.


OK. I see where you were coming from now.


----------



## srw (2 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> All things being equal? none at all. In reality, the rider will take a different route, etc etc...


That's wrong. At the end of a single 50 mile ride even a Chris Froome will be tireder, and so at more risk, than at the end of a fifth 10 miler on different days. And that is before you factor in the likelihood that a 50 miler is likely to take the rider further from home.

The absolute level of risk might be small, but that's a different question.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (2 Apr 2020)

*Mod note:*

Closed pending clean up.


----------



## Rickshaw Phil (3 Apr 2020)

This thread really hasn't shown off CycleChat at its best.

A clean up has been done and it is now open for posting again but can I ask you all to stay on topic and cut out the sniping and nit-picking. If someone has posted medical advice that is bad or dangerous the report function is available (bottom left of any post) to make the moderators aware. If they have posted something that you simply don't like then consider putting them on ignore (click on their user profile and the ignore button is just to the bottom right of their avatar).

I know that cabin fever might be starting to kick in for some but that isn't a good reason for hounding people off the site.


----------



## matticus (3 Apr 2020)

Matticus wisely said: _All things being equal? none at all. In reality, the rider will take a different route, etc etc... _​


srw said:


> That's wrong. At the end of a single 50 mile ride even a Chris Froome will be tireder, and so at more risk, than at the end of a fifth 10 miler on different days. And that is before you factor in the likelihood that a 50 miler is likely to take the rider further from home.
> 
> The absolute level of risk might be small, but that's a different question.


Well I think that's wrong! If Chris Froome *races *for 50 miles, then sure, he'll be zonked and thus *probably* more mistake-prone. But if someone who regularly rides 50 miles locally, then does it at a leisurely pace, their mental fatigue level will be negligible. Then look at other factors that WE DONT KNOW e.g. I am typically more wound-up at the _start _of a ride. 
you said the rider is likely to be further from home? well I'm not sure that adds risk. The guy might do 10-mile loops. He might live in a hazardous area and plan his longer rides to get somewhere safe. (not many people plan their long rides to somewhere _more _stressful! OK, maybe keen downhillers.)

So I don't think your statement is justified. At best the difference is just noise. And that's BEFORE we give the whole 50 miles a weighting appropriate to the risk level compared to everyday life.


----------



## Banjo (3 Apr 2020)

I have been out cycling nearly every day of the Covid19 emergency .

I set my boundaries as no further than I would be prepared to throw the bike over my shoulder and carry it home.

Only once or twice in my life has a mechanical problem left me stranded and once I became ill on a ride and had to be rescued but at the moment I would be uncomfortable asking someone to drive out and get me.


----------



## mjr (3 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> Only once or twice in my life has a mechanical problem left me stranded and once I became ill on a ride and had to be rescued but at the moment I would be uncomfortable asking someone to drive out and get me.


I think cycle breakdown services are working, just as motor vehicle breakdown services are. If you have one in your area, that is.


----------



## matticus (3 Apr 2020)

But ask yourself - IS IT LIKELY?

You can't rule out everything. (I try not to crash or breakdown on the bike, but there is a CHANCE that I will smash a front wheel AND sprain my ankle in some freak accident, just riding home from work tonight.)

Where you think that chance is too high, either mitigate it or don't do the thing. But don't let other people bully you with their risk views.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> I think cycle breakdown services are working, just as motor vehicle breakdown services are. If you have one in your area, that is.


What's wrong with your other half,failing that a taxi ?
Edited to add a worse case scenario ! Only needed to ever ring someone once.


----------



## Phaeton (3 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> What's wrong with your other half,failing that a taxi ?


Are Taxis working? I did think about Uber earlier & sort of presumed it must have killed their business


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Are Taxis working? I did think about Uber earlier & sort of presumed out must have killed their business


Yes,there only not working by choice.But your right it would have killed their business so to speak.Still taxis working here anyway.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> But ask yourself - IS IT LIKELY?
> 
> You can't rule out everything. (I try not to crash or breakdown on the bike, but there is a CHANCE that I will smash a front wheel AND sprain my ankle in some freak accident, just riding home from work tonight.)
> 
> Where you think that chance is too high, either mitigate it or don't do the thing. But don't let other people bully you with their risk views.



IS IT LIKELY? - Well that easy to answer, the answer is no it is not, not even close to likely.


----------



## Phaeton (3 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> IS IT LIKELY? - Well that easy to answer, the answer is no it is not, not even close to likely.


Where does likely fall on the scale of probability, 50% & above?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where does likely fall on the scale of probability, 50% & above?



Yep


----------



## Banjo (3 Apr 2020)

It's extremely unlikely I will get stranded ,probably an over cautious approach but I figure I could walk 15kms easily and a 15 ISH km radius from home gives me plenty of rides to do anyway.

It's a personal thing a lot probably depends on where you live,I am fortunate in the respect of living in an area with plenty of routes available from my front door ,especially now with the low level of traffic.


----------



## Drago (3 Apr 2020)

I see in the Philippines, where they do actually have a lockdown, they simply shoot anyone who ventures out. It might stop some of the fools extracting the urine if they tried that here.


----------



## Phaeton (3 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> It's extremely unlikely I will get stranded ,probably an over cautious approach but I figure I could walk 15kms easily and a 15 ISH km radius from home gives me plenty of rides to do anyway.
> 
> It's a personal thing a lot probably depends on where you live,I am fortunate in the respect of living in an area with plenty of routes available from my front door ,especially now with the low level of traffic.


When I first started road riding, (don't do it anymore), I would never stray more than 5Km from home, I always figured if I conked, or had a real mechanical & nobody was home to fetch me I'd just hide the bike the best I could & walk home, if it wasn't there when I got back so be it, I was safe.


----------



## Phaeton (3 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> I see in the Philippines, where they do actually have a lockdown, they simply shoot anyone who ventures out. It might stop some of the fools extracting the urine if they tried that here.


Have they or are you making things up again, although I wouldn't be surprised, they decided which drugs gangs could operate & sent the army/Police (not a lot of difference) in to wipeout any rivals.

My colleague lives on an island in the Philippines, he lives with his wife's family at the edge of the sea, they are fishermen, there are currently armed guards stationed at all the jetty's, anybody who tries to go out to sea or tries to come ashore will be stopped in no uncertain terms.


----------



## ColinJ (3 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> I see in the Philippines, where they do actually have a lockdown, they simply shoot anyone who ventures out. It might stop some of the fools extracting the urine if they tried that here.


President Duterte orders the police/military to shoot _anybody _who does _anything _that he doesn't like! In this case he is talking about poor people protesting about being locked in their homes for weeks without food...


----------



## mjr (3 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> What's wrong with your other half,failing that a taxi ?
> Edited to add a worse case scenario ! Only needed to ever ring someone once.


It doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse to leave home when there are breakdown services. Also, mine would probably be working or riding with me.

Yes, a taxi would work too and I've seen them out working.


----------



## ColinJ (3 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> What's wrong with your other half


The latest figures I found (2017) showed that there are nearly 4 million of us in the UK _without _'another half'! 

(Some of those may have partners who live elsewhere, but in that case they shouldn't be seeing them for lifts anyway in the current circumstances, unless the vehicle is long enough for the passenger to stay well away from the driver with the broken bike in the car.)


----------



## Drago (3 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Have they or are you making things up again, although I wouldn't be surprised, they decided which drugs gangs could operate & sent the army/Police (not a lot of difference) in to wipeout any rivals.


Yep, they sure have.


----------



## Mike_P (3 Apr 2020)

Useful website to work how far from home to ride if you are concerned re being seen as not "exercising close to home".
https://www.freemaptools.com/radius-from-uk-postcode.htm
A couple of nearly 16 mile rides on the same general route I have done since the lockdown were within a 5.5mile radius, cutting to 5 miles would make most of that route possible but below that it wipes any westerly rides. The other rides I have done were northerly of 13 1/4 miles max and within a 4 mile radius. Interestingly the 4 mile radius includes the steep climbs away from Birstwith, the other Clint Bank and Whipley Bank as well so no lack of practice of hill climbing or descending _hefty braking _skills.


----------



## Adam4868 (3 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> The latest figures I found (2017) showed that there are nearly 4 million of us in the UK _without _'another half'!
> 
> (Some of those may have partners who live elsewhere, but in that case they shouldn't be seeing them for lifts anyway in the current circumstances, unless the vehicle is long enough for the passenger to stay well away from the driver with the broken bike in the car.)


Fair enough on the partner...but thats why i mentioned taxis.Black cab preferable,there again I don't class minicabs as taxis,I'd walk rather than use the likes of uber ! 
Back on the thread though it's still going to be unlikely needed.


----------



## ColinJ (3 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Fair enough on the partner...but thats why i mentioned taxis.*Black cab preferable*,there again


Not many black cabs either once you get out of big towns and cities! I can't remember seeing one in the Calder Valley in the 31 years that I have lived here...

I'm going to stick within an hour's walking distance. If I were doing local laps up 'on the tops' then I would be able to freewheel downhill for 3 kms or so as long as the mechanical problem were something like a broken pedal or crank rather than a wrecked wheel or frame.


----------



## classic33 (3 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Not many black cabs either once you get out of big towns and cities! I can't remember seeing one in the Calder Valley in the 31 years that I have lived here...
> 
> I'm going to stick within an hour's walking distance. If I were doing local laps up 'on the tops' then I would be able to freewheel downhill for 3 kms or so as long as the mechanical problem were something like a broken pedal or crank rather than a wrecked wheel or frame.


There were five white ones, local colour for taxis, based next door to what used to be the cinema in Hebden Bridge. Opposite the cafe, now closed, near the bus stops.


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2020)

classic33 said:


> There were five white ones, local colour for taxis, based next door to what used to be the cinema in Hebden Bridge. Opposite the cafe, now closed, near the bus stops.


Blimey - shows how observant I am!  

Hebden Bridge Picture House is still there, but obviously shut for the duration. Hopefully, this will not put them out of business.


----------



## pawl (3 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> When I first started road riding, (don't do it anymore), I would never stray more than 5Km from home, I always figured if I conked, or had a real mechanical & nobody was home to fetch me I'd just hide the bike the best I could & walk home, if it wasn't there when I got back so be it, I was safe.



These days I’d have a job walking 5km in ordinary shoes let alone cycling shoes.🦶🦶👠👠🤣🤣


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2020)

Seems to be a bit off topic lately. We finished the don’t ride in groups bit a while back.


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Seems to be a bit off topic lately. We finished the don’t ride in groups bit a while back.


Is there anything more to say, other than "_Don't do it - or just see what happens!_"?


----------



## roubaixtuesday (3 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> I see in the Philippines, where they do actually have a lockdown, they simply shoot anyone who ventures out. It might stop some of the fools extracting the urine if they tried that here.



Dead farking right. Derbyshire plod with an UZI and a shoot to kill policy for lone dog walkers is a farking brilliant idea. Rock on.


----------



## Blue Hills (4 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> When I first started road riding, (don't do it anymore), I would never stray more than 5Km from home, I always figured if I conked, or had a real mechanical & nobody was home to fetch me I'd just hide the bike the best I could & walk home, if it wasn't there when I got back so be it, I was safe.


It would have to be a very severe problem to stop you pushing a bike, especially a road bike, 5km?


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## Blue Hills (4 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Blimey - shows how observant I am!



Intrigued by what you thought those things were colin.
Yorkshire ambulances?


----------



## PaulSB (4 Apr 2020)

Knowing this thread has digressed somewhat I thought it could be helpful to provide the current advice sent to all affiliated clubs by British Cycling. For information only:

*Important information on club rides*

The power of the bicycle is becoming clearer than ever, and we’d like to thank you heeding our message to stop all club activity, and for continuing to follow Government guidance. As a reminder of what that Government guidance is, right now we should only ride on our own, or with people we live with, keeping two metres apart from anyone we meet, and stopping and waiting for people to pass when necessary.

While you should only use your bike to exercise once a day, you can also use it to shop for basic necessities, provide care or help somebody vulnerable, and travel to or from essential work.

As the days continue, we must remember that we cannot and must not take this privilege to cycle for granted. Keep riding responsibly, take care, and we will get through this together.


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## Venod (4 Apr 2020)

Disappointed to see a group of four out on the road yesterday, if they were from the same family, I suspect they all had different fathers, not posted as flybys on Strava so can't confirm.


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## Edwardoka (4 Apr 2020)

Many people on my strava feed have been posting long rides despite being repeatedly told not to, so now I feel justified in deploying the nuclear option: withholding kudos


----------



## dodgy (4 Apr 2020)

There's a guy around here, pretty useful competitive rider, has had some good success in XC MTB amongst other things. He usually posts a link to his strava rides on Twitter and Instagram, when he does so he gets all the "wow, great ride!" etc.
Anyway, he's still doing the long rides and the tweeting, but a noticeable reduction in the congratulations messages. Simply put, he's not reading the room.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (4 Apr 2020)

Enjoy your trips out while you can. I went to get food last night and masses of people (more than usual in the last 2 weeks) were out in parks and around town, not for exercise or so it appeared.... lots sitting on benches loafing about, people window shopping in estate agents on the streets, a big upsurge in blokes thrunging about on motorbikes at high revs for the fun of it... it looked like the barest lip service was being paid to the restrictions. I think there will be more, firmer restrictions after this weekend sadly, everyone in the supermarket queue last night appeared to be planning barbecues and many were out in couples and had to be spoken to by shop staff, I could overhear plans that clearly involved friends. Looks like people can't help themselves once the sun comes out.


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## dodgy (4 Apr 2020)

You're in Hertfordshire? I have no idea why your message is full of such bad news, that is absolutely NOT what I'm seeing on Wirral.
And here's some actual data that tells us the lockdown *is being observed*, though it's a few days old now, it will get updated again soon.

https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-03-29_GB_Mobility_Report_en.pdf

Try to be positive, your post is a bit 'Facebooky'


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## Phaeton (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-03-29_GB_Mobility_Report_en.pdf


I saw this the other day on another group, the interesting graph to me was the Work one, it appeared that more people are returning to work, no sure it that is correct or not.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> You're in Hertfordshire? I have no idea why your message is full of such bad news, that is absolutely NOT what I'm seeing on Wirral.
> And here's some actual data that tells us the lockdown *is being observed*, though it's a few days old now, it will get updated again soon.
> 
> https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-03-29_GB_Mobility_Report_en.pdf
> ...



Apologies if it comes across "Facebooky", that's the last thing I'd want to come across as! 
I can only comment on what I saw in a one hour window, I went out the same time exactly a week before and the restrictions were being observed pretty well then. Hopefully I'm wrong, and I saw an unrepresentative sample, and maybe people will behave. I'm glad to hear it's being taken seriously elsewhere.


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## dodgy (4 Apr 2020)

All I know for sure is that every single person I know well enough to have their phone in my contacts, so colleagues, friends, neighbours etc are all doing the lockdown thing. The only transgressions I've noticed is window cleaners turned up yesterday to clean neighbour's windows, that didn't seem essential to me and one of my neighbours still puts the dog in the car to drive to go for a walk even though we life near open countryside.

Apart from that, I'm reasonably positive about things.


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## dodgy (4 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I saw this the other day on another group, the interesting graph to me was the Work one, it appeared that more people are returning to work, no sure it that is correct or not.



Possibly explained that at first a lot of people went into panic self isolation prematurely. Then the guidance was clarified and businesses learned how to cope (work from home etc). As it's Google data, it's possible that people have now labelled their residential address as 'work' and it's resulted in a slight up-curve in work location history.


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## roubaixtuesday (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> The only transgressions I've noticed is window cleaners turned up yesterday to clean neighbour's windows, that didn't seem essential to me



You are allowed to work as long as you can do so safely within social distancing guidance. 

The work does not have to be "essential".

(I've no idea of course, if the window cleaners were obeying the rules; for instance if it were a father and son team living in the same household, there would be no problem)


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## dodgy (4 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> You are allowed to work as long as you can do so safely within social distancing guidance.
> 
> The work does not have to be "essential".
> 
> (I've no idea of course, if the window cleaners were obeying the rules; for instance if it were a father and son team living in the same household, there would be no problem)



These are basically a gang of lads that jump out of a transit and clean a house in about 30 seconds, doesn't seem a thorough job though 🤷‍♂️

By essential, I meant to the house owner, they are after all exposing themselves to slightly more risk. These guys only take cash...


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## matticus (4 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> These days I’d have a job walking 5km in ordinary shoes let alone cycling shoes.🦶🦶👠👠🤣🤣


Good point - perhaps we need a Topic:
*DONT ride with non-recessed cleats more than a 1km from home!*


----------



## Phaeton (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> These guys only take cash...


Now me being a cynic that is their problem, I suspect, yes I know no evidence other than known 2 window cleaners in the past. But the amount they declare to HMRC assuming they declare anything will be a lot lower than they are taking, which means they won't be able to maintain their lifestyle on the 80% the HMRC is going to give them back. I know of one bloke who was paying £1200 a month rent on a flat from a declared £18K a year job, he was then upset when the bank turned him down for £150K mortgage


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## DaveReading (4 Apr 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Many people on my strava feed have been posting long rides despite being repeatedly told not to



Told by whom, and why ?


----------



## Shearwater Missile (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> All I know for sure is that every single person I know well enough to have their phone in my contacts, so colleagues, friends, neighbours etc are all doing the lockdown thing. The only transgressions I've noticed is window cleaners turned up yesterday to clean neighbour's windows, that didn't seem essential to me and one of my neighbours still puts the dog in the car to drive to go for a walk even though we life near open countryside.
> 
> Apart from that, I'm reasonably positive about things.


I saw window cleaners out yesterday too, hardly essential. I cut an elderly friends lawn a couple of times a month but I won`t until restrictions are lifted. Of course I could do it without coming into contact with him but that is not the point. The grass will be like my hair, in need of a good cut.


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## pawl (4 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Good point - perhaps we need a Topic:
> *DONT ride with non-recessed cleats more than a 1km from home!*




I don’t really wear high heels for cycling 😁😁😁


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Apr 2020)

Probally off thread but have you actually thought that maybe the window cleaners are skint and are trying to earn some money ? I started a small job last week and ill finish it next.Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to not work.


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## Phaeton (4 Apr 2020)

Shearwater Missile said:


> I saw window cleaners out yesterday too, hardly essential. I cut an elderly friends lawn a couple of times a month but I won`t until restrictions are lifted. Of course I could do it without coming into contact with him but that is not the point. The grass will be like my hair, in need of a good cut.


We each do what we feel is right but I don't understand your logic, my father who is 95 can't cut his lawn, so I put my mower in the back of my car, drove up to his house, took out the mover, plugged it into his outside socket, mowed his lawns, unplugged the mower & came home again. We never got within 3 metres of each other, he's happier now his lawns look nice & logically the only thing we both could have touched is if he lifted the lid on the weatherproof socket lid in exactly the same place as I did. I respect your decision but I find it a strange one.


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## Venod (4 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> These guys only take cash



When I came back from my ride Thursday I was surprised to see the window cleaners at our house, he rang the doorbell then retreated two metres, complete with mask, and asked me to put the cash in the planter by the front door.


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## Gunk (4 Apr 2020)

Venod said:


> When I came back from my ride Thursday I was surprised to see the window cleaners at our house, he rang the doorbell then retreated two metres, complete with mask, and asked me to put the cash in the planter by the front door.



He needs to get with the times, mine just sticks a slip through the door when his finished and I pay him via bank transfer, he’s been doing this for the last 5 years.


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## Phaeton (4 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> He needs to get with the times, mine just sticks a slip through the door when his finished and I pay him via bank transfer, he’s been doing this for the last 5 years.


Ah but that way there is a trail fir HMRC to follow


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## pawl (4 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> He needs to get with the times, mine just sticks a slip through the door when his finished and I pay him via bank transfer, he’s been doing this for the last 5 years.




We have paid our window cleaner by bank transfer for some time,mainly because we are never sure when he is due to visit and don’t always have cash in the house.Saves him having to call back.


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## vickster (4 Apr 2020)

My window cleaner gets a cheque  in hand if I'm home, behind planter in garden if not.


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## nickyboy (4 Apr 2020)

First non-solo cyclists I've spotted since solo-only was instructed

Two guys chatting away, riding side by side this am. They gave me a cheery hello as I passed in the other direction. I shouted that they should be riding solo only. They've posted their rides (which were about 3.5 hours ) and they started in different locations.

It's twonks like these (along with the seaside revellers we will no doubt get tomorrow) that will encourage the government to push the button on tighter restrictions. I have absolutely no compunction whatsoever in calling folk out like these two. If they don't like it that's tough


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## snorri (4 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Told by whom, and why ?


Scottish Government spokespersons, the message has been clear for anyone who listens to the radio here.
In order to reduce risk of spreading virus and reduce the possibility of others having to come to assist in event of accident or breakdown.
Of course rUK may be getting different messages.


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## carlosfandangus (4 Apr 2020)

snorri said:


> Scottish Government spokespersons, the message has been clear for anyone who listens to the radio here.
> In order to reduce risk of spreading virus and reduce the possibility of others having to come to assist in event of accident or breakdown.
> Of course rUK may be getting different messages.



A 40mph or lower speed limit has been bought in over here, to relieve the pressure on the emergency services


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> A 40mph or lower speed limit has been bought in over here, to relieve the pressure on the emergency services



I can only hit that on the bike downhill. So don’t think that’ll affect group riding.


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## carlosfandangus (4 Apr 2020)

You are not pedaling fast enough


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## HLaB (4 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> A 40mph or lower speed limit has been bought in over here, to relieve the pressure on the emergency services


Make sense but only to sensible folk who are staying at home, there's some right nutters on the roads here


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## carlosfandangus (4 Apr 2020)

You are right, the same here, however the police are clamping down and publicising the new limit, the issue we have here that when you hit the unrestricted sign (white circle with a diagonal black stripe) it is just that, unrestricted under normal circumstances.... no upper limit, if you can do 200 mph you can


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## Racing roadkill (4 Apr 2020)

I only saw one group of MAWIL today, who were clearly extracting the urine, there were a few what looked like family groups out, but it was mum dad and kiddy on a tag along and the like, which is fine.


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## Rusty Nails (4 Apr 2020)

I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.

I must admit that at that level I probably would pack cycling in temporarily as a form of exercise. I have shortened my usual rides to around 90 mins and 45 mins would just be riding around streets, probably too fast, and would be less time than changing and showering.


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## DaveReading (4 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> A 40mph or lower speed limit has been bought in over here, to relieve the pressure on the emergency services



On my ride today I concluded that speed limits had been removed completely for drivers of Audis and BMWs.


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## HLaB (4 Apr 2020)

Didn't see anyone out today as I did't go out. My widow does look towards the access and narrow footway to a park I've seen a steady stream of people but no groups. What I did find bizarre is a pavement cyclist squeezing by folk on that narrow footway, why not use the empty dead end road  I might go out tomorrow for my own sanity but it looks a lot windier.


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## Racing roadkill (4 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.


that’s a steaming pile of merde. Probably from Facebook or something.




Rusty Nails said:


> I must admit that at that level I probably would pack cycling in temporarily as a form of exercise. I have shortened my usual rides to around 90 mins and 45 mins would just be riding around streets, probably too fast, and would be less time than changing and showering.


It’s a good job that nothing of the sort has been said then isn’t it?


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## roubaixtuesday (4 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion



Bizarre if true. Cycling's got to have far and away the lowest infection potential. And why the hell does it matter if I'm out on the same paths running or walking.


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## Phaeton (4 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> On my ride today I concluded that speed limits had been removed completely for drivers of Audis and BMWs.


It's not only them I saw 3 cars this morning doing over 40mph through our 30mph village how do I know because of the big orange sign that was flashing at them telling them


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## Sharky (4 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> Didn't see anyone out today as I did't go out. My widow does look towards the access and narrow footway to a park I've seen a steady stream of people but no groups. What I did find bizarre is a pavement cyclist squeezing by folk on that narrow footway, why not use the empty dead end road  I might go out tomorrow for my own sanity but it looks a lot windier.


Could be a typo in there, or could be a future prediction (hope not).


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## vickster (4 Apr 2020)

I just saw a sign on the local mad mile, a 60 limit.
“The roads may be quieter, but the speed limits remain the same” and I saw a car pulled over by plod there the other day for the first time ever (although don’t know the reason)


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## ColinJ (4 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.





Racing roadkill said:


> that’s a steaming pile of merde. Probably from Facebook or something





roubaixtuesday said:


> Bizarre if true. Cycling's got to have far and away the lowest infection potential. And why the hell does it matter if I'm out on the same paths running or walking.


He DID say something along those lines - I saw the interview on the Andrew Marr show, and it can be found on (for example) the Sun website if you can bear to go there!



Gove said:


> Speaking to BBC’s Andrew Marr, Mr Gove said: ‘Well, obviously it depends on each individual’s fitness. I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate.’


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## Racing roadkill (4 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> He DID say something along those lines - I saw the interview on the Andrew Marr show, and it can be found on (for example) the Sun website if you can bear to go there!


I think he had his knuckles rapped by various legal people over the comments, and they aren’t official policy.


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## slowmotion (4 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Bizarre if true. Cycling's got to have far and away the lowest infection potential. And why the hell does it matter if I'm out on the same paths running or walking.


People running tend to puff and blow a lot more than walkers. From personal observation, some of them don't take the two metre rule too seriously either.


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## Rusty Nails (4 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> He DID say something along those lines - I saw the interview on the Andrew Marr show, and it can be found on (for example) the Sun website if you can bear to go there!



He mentions 'depending on your level of fitness' so, as usual with Ministers' on the hoof interpretations of guidelines, not clear at all. If you're very fit can you go for a 3 hour ride, and if you're unfit just a 30 min ride, or should that be vice versa? 

I will stick to the official guidelines, no matter how odd they seem, as long as they are clear.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2020)

HLaB said:


> Make sense but only to sensible folk who are staying at home, there's some right nutters on the roads here



If you can cycle that fast on the roads without going downhill then good luck.


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## Mike_P (4 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> You are right, the same here, however the police are clamping down and publicising the new limit, the issue we have here that when you hit the unrestricted sign (white circle with a diagonal black stripe) it is just that, unrestricted under normal circumstances.... no upper limit, if you can do 200 mph you can


 If you are talking about the UK that is wholly wrong - that sign means the national speed limits apply 
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits


Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.


Presumably never ridden a bike then; How can anyway time a ride precisely given the impacts of headwinds and crosswinds.


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## HLaB (4 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> If you can cycle that fast on the roads without going downhill then good luck.


 I think the fastest I've been on the flat is the low 30s mph; I only go over 40mph a half dozen times a year and down hills


----------



## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.



He suggested for most people 30 mins to an hour should be about right. It wasn’t a recommendation, nor does it have any basis in law. It’s just a view that for a sedentary population (which is the most bit) they should be able to manage 30 mins to an hour, and probably wouldn’t want to do more.


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## carlosfandangus (4 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> If you are talking about the UK that is wholly wrong - that sign means the national speed limits apply
> https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
> 
> Presumably never ridden a bike then; How can anyway time a ride precisely given the impacts of headwinds and crosswinds.


Its the Isle of Man, I was once doing 150 on a bike (ZXR 900) up the Mountain Mile, 2 bikes overtook me and made me look as though I was standing still, they were 2 older riders, both ex racers


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## ColinJ (4 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> Its the Isle of Man, I was once doing 150 on a bike (ZXR 900) up the Mountain Mile, 2 bikes overtook me and made me look as though I was standing still, they were 2 older riders, both ex racers


 

Crosses Isle of Man off post-COVID cycling holiday list...


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## snorri (4 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I've read somewhere that Gove is suggesting that one hour is suitable for a walk, 30 mins for a run and somewhere inbetween for a ride. Not a rule but a suggestion.


Mr Gove, this comment from that very sensible Mr Boardman on Twitter must have been directed at you!
Chris Boardman
@Chris_Boardman

It’s very, very simple: Follow this instruction. Don’t extrapolate, just follow the instructions. People adding their own advice on top, you think you’re helping but you’re not. Just follow the instructions.


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## AuroraSaab (4 Apr 2020)

London today apparently :






Still, in Australia they seem to be ignoring the lockdown altogether and the beaches were busy as usual yesterday.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> London today apparently :
> View attachment 512636
> 
> 
> Still, in Australia they seem to be ignoring the lockdown altogether and the beaches were busy as usual yesterday.



What is that from, got a link?


----------



## ianrauk (4 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> London today apparently :
> View attachment 512636
> 
> 
> Still, in Australia they seem to be ignoring the lockdown altogether and the beaches were busy as usual yesterday.


You shouldn't always believe what you read
https://road.cc/content/news/mail-accused-distorting-truth-mamil-madness-story-272475


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## Ian H (4 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> London today apparently :
> View attachment 512636
> 
> 
> Still, in Australia they seem to be ignoring the lockdown altogether and the beaches were busy as usual yesterday.


I see individual cyclists at least 6ft apart.


----------



## Banjo (4 Apr 2020)

Could be the camera angle making them appear closer together than they really are or the could be a bunch of idiots.Either way the BBC news seem full of positive stuff about people by an large being sensible.


----------



## C R (4 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> Could be the camera angle making them appear closer together than they really are or the could be a bunch of idiots.Either way the BBC news seem full of positive stuff about people by an large being sensible.


Apparently it took the photographer a whole week to get that photo.


----------



## DaveReading (4 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> Could be the camera angle making them appear closer together than they really are



Maybe the photographer waited until he/she encountered a sequence of progressively smaller, increasingly blurry cyclists on progressively smaller bikes.

On the other hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_(graphical)#Foreshortening


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## AuroraSaab (4 Apr 2020)

The blurriness is an effect of the depth of field of the lens. I agree about the possibility of a foreshortening effect due to the angle though. Also, in the context of slowing down for traffic lights (as the other article claims) some bunching would be inevitable I suppose. I guess you would have to be there to know for sure.


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## ozboz (4 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> The blurriness is an effect of the depth of field of the lens. I agree about the possibility of a foreshortening effect due to the angle though. Also, in the context of slowing down for traffic lights (as the other article claims) some bunching would be inevitable I suppose. I guess you would have to be there to know for sure.


That is the second time today that an analysis of the photo has come up , the other was virtually the same as yours , Fake Photo ?


----------



## Vantage (4 Apr 2020)

I saw similar to @CanucksTraveller today. Increasing numbers of idiots going out. 
Lots more traffic on the roads and more walkers out on the hills than I've seen in a while. The hills are local to me (6 mile round trip) but there must have been over 10 cars parked up by the side of the road as people drive to the hills. I doubt they were locals. I wish they'd all f off back home to their own areas so my 2 metre space wasn't as difficult to keep. 
Lots more cyclists than usual too but so far no group riding that I've seen.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

Lots of groups riding here today. All looked like probably family groups to me. One pair definitely related because I know who they are.

Funniest thing was three or four cars stopping to let one group cross the A10. I've never seen that before. This is a road you can wait five minutes to cross with usual traffic levels. It's like a weekend evening's traffic most of most days now, with sightly more lorries, so it seems like lockdown is being complied with.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Knowing this thread has digressed somewhat I thought it could be helpful to provide the current advice sent to all affiliated clubs by British Cycling. For information only:
> 
> *Important information on club rides*
> 
> [...] thank you heeding our message to stop all club activity, [...]


So club rides are all club activity for BC clubs? Wow.


----------



## PK99 (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> I just saw a sign on the local mad mile, a 60 limit.
> “The roads may be quieter, but the speed limits remain the same” and I saw a car pulled over by plod there the other day for the first time ever (although don’t know the reason)



The Mad Mile would be better tagged the Crazy Mile - a 1 mile stretch of dead straight* 60mph dual carriageway between the roundabout and traffic light with 40mph before and after.

Fecking crazy!

*Thank you Romans!


----------



## ozboz (5 Apr 2020)

I fear a major lockdown may just be upon us , a park in South London has been closed by Lambeth Council from Sunday , apparently 3000 visitors during the day sunbathing and the like flouting the Gov advisory to stop at home, talk about the few cocking it all up for the many ,


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## Gunk (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Ah but that way there is a trail fir HMRC to follow



As it should be, which also means he is properly insured.


----------



## Gunk (5 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> I fear a major lockdown may just be upon us , a park in South London has been closed by Lambeth Council from Sunday , apparently 3000 visitors during the day sunbathing and the like flouting the Gov advisory to stop at home, talk about the few cocking it all up for the many ,



I did a short ride around my immediate neighbourhood yesterday and I would say that here people are following the rules, it was pretty much deserted, but I live in a leafy suburb. In fairness the park was probably packed because they’re fed up of being cooped up in a small flat all week with a couple of kids.


----------



## Low Gear Guy (5 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> London today apparently :
> View attachment 512636
> 
> 
> Still, in Australia they seem to be ignoring the lockdown altogether and the beaches were busy as usual yesterday.


All the riders in that photograph are white males with drop handlebars and no pannier bags. That is surely a stock photograph of a sportive rather than a random selection of London cyclists?


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> I fear a major lockdown may just be upon us , a park in South London has been closed by Lambeth Council from Sunday , apparently 3000 visitors during the day sunbathing and the like flouting the Gov advisory to stop at home, talk about the few cocking it all up for the many ,


You have to take that in context, have you first hand knowledge or are you just facebooking everybody, how big is the park, how spreadout where the 3000 people, there is nothing wrong taking a walk outside & sitting in the sun, in fact with all that's happening it's probably a goo idea, as long as you don't get too close the the people round you.


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have to take that in context, have you first hand knowledge or are you just facebooking everybody, how big is the park, how spreadout where the 3000 people, there is nothing wrong taking a walk outside & sitting in the sun, in fact with all that's happening it's probably a goo idea, as long as you don't get too close the the people round you.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...ondon-lockdown-lambeth-sunshine-a4407186.html

Groups of people sitting around led to the closure. Quite a young part of London so I can picture the scene. Clapham Common will be another place plod might be patrolling today


----------



## ianrauk (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have to take that in context, have you first hand knowledge or are you just facebooking everybody, how big is the park, how spreadout where the 3000 people, there is nothing wrong taking a walk outside & sitting in the sun, in fact with all that's happening it's probably a goo idea, as long as you don't get too close the the people round you.


It was Brockwell Park
125 acres. So quite big. 3000 people in the scheme of things is not a lot compared to the size.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> It was Brockwell Park
> 125 acres. So quite big. 3000 people in the scheme of things is not a lot compared to the size.


There are roughly 4000 square metres in an acre, if you divide that by 4 so that a person has 1 metre either side of them that's 1000 people per acre, so logically you could get 125,000 people safely in the park, this sounds like the council/Police are taking the easy way out & spoiling it for a lot of sensible people, even if I've got my sums wrong & it's 4000 divided by 16 times 125 that's still >30,000


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have to take that in context, have you first hand knowledge or are you just facebooking everybody, how big is the park, how spreadout where the 3000 people, there is nothing wrong taking a walk outside & sitting in the sun, in fact with all that's happening it's probably a goo idea, as long as you don't get too close the the people round you.


Sitting enjoying the sun is part of the problem, we have all to keep moving.


----------



## Guzzi (5 Apr 2020)

How do you get your 30,000 people in and out of the 6 (? from memory gates) .

50 years of Lambeth Council telling everyone that they are unique and special in their own way leads to a population who all think that rules apply to others and they have an exemption because they are unique and special.

Brockwell Park is easy to close it is Enclosed, just shut the gates. Clapham Common is a remanant of land that escaped the Enclosure acts so almost by definition it has no fences.


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Apr 2020)

I think the vast majority of people are trying their best.Were all quick to point to someone or people out.Not everyone's lucky enough to have a garden to sit in or maybe those going to a park live in flats/houseshares etc.Its hard enough for youngsters to understand.On a whole I think were doing our social distancing pretty well.


----------



## nickyboy (5 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I did a short ride around my immediate neighbourhood yesterday and I would say that here people are following the rules, it was pretty much deserted, but I live in a leafy suburb. In fairness the park was probably packed because they’re fed up of being cooped up in a small flat all week with a couple of kids.


This

I live in a nice house on the edge of the countryside and have grown up sons who are no trouble. Lockdown compliance is easy for me

But if I had a young family and lived in a flat in a built up area of town I'd probably have a very different view. It's very easy for people like me to point the finger at people but their circumstances may be very different from mine

I'd urge a bit of understanding of parents with young families. Can't be easy for them right now


----------



## ozboz (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You have to take that in context, have you first hand knowledge or are you just facebooking everybody, how big is the park, how spreadout where the 3000 people, there is nothing wrong taking a walk outside & sitting in the sun, in fact with all that's happening it's probably a goo idea, as long as you don't get too close the the people round you.


I got the news from this 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...ondon-lockdown-lambeth-sunshine-a4407186.html


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Sitting enjoying the sun is part of the problem, we have all to keep moving.


Where does it say that, if that is the case then nobody can go shopping, we have to queue outside up to an hour to get into the shop.


Adam4868 said:


> I think the vast majority of people are trying their best.Were all quick to point to someone or people out.Not everyone's lucky enough to have a garden to sit in or maybe those going to a park live in flats/houseshares etc.Its hard enough for youngsters to understand.On a whole I think were doing our social distancing pretty well.


Agreed


----------



## dodgy (5 Apr 2020)

Spot on @nickyboy


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where does it say that, if that is the case then nobody can go shopping, we have to queue outside up to an hour to get into the shop.
> Agreed


They were not shopping however, they were outside presumably for their daily exercise. There’d have been no issue if all were exercising 2m apart, but they weren’t all


----------



## Guzzi (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> This
> 
> I live in a nice house on the edge of the countryside and have grown up sons who are no trouble. Lockdown compliance is easy for me
> 
> ...



The Met Police are refusing to say if they had fined anyone, I presume they didn't try because 3000 people who have been locked in all week could get very arsey.

The shame is if we were strict it would be over quicker but a lot of people in Lambeth and who have posted on this thread would fail the Marshmallow Test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment


----------



## Drago (5 Apr 2020)

Matt Hancock has told the BBC that people need to stop taking the pith or the government will ban "all forms of" outdoor exercise. Well, he said it slightly more politely than that, but that is exactly what he has said.

Keep it shortish, sensibleish, and closeish to home or you'll ruin it for everyone. I appreciate some people are mileage monsters and arent happy if theyve not done a ton plus every day, 6 days a week, but a quick 10 or 15 is better than zero miles, which is what we'll all be having soon if people don't stop being twits. It's only for a few months, so just grin and bear it.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where does it say that, if that is the case then nobody can go shopping, we have to queue outside up to an hour to get into the shop.
> Agreed



It says it clearly right on the Gov.uk Covid page. 
"You can only go out for food, health reasons (exercise, medical, or caring for others), or to go to work if you cannot work at home."
I think that's very clear. 

It's irrelevant to point out how big a park is and quoting a 2 metre rule, and how much space everyone would theoretically have. The 2 metre distance is _only if you are doing one of the above. _

The rules don't allow sunning yourself in the park or at the seaside. I understand that families want to get out, I'm going stir crazy myself looking after small ones, but of course we are perfectly entitled to get out and walk or cycle. Unlike residents of Lambeth however, I understand that our walk is exactly that, we can go through the park, but it doesn't give us carte blanche to hang out in the park for the afternoon.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> Matt Hancock has told the BBC that people need to stop taking the pith or the government will ban "all forms of" outdoor exercise. Well, he said it slightly more politely than that, but that is exactly what he has said.
> 
> Keep it shortish, sensibleish, and closeish to home or you'll ruin it for everyone. I appreciate some people are mileage monsters and arent happy if theyve not done a ton plus every day, 6 days a week, but a quick 10 or 15 is better than zero miles, which is what we'll all be having soon if people don't stop being twits. It's only for a few months, so just grin and bear it.



It’s madness as well he’s thinking they would ban exercise because of people who aren’t exercising. I’m going to ban walking, running and cycling because those people over there are driving makes about as much sense.


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

It’s about keeping people indoors, exercise is the one thing of the 4 permitted practices that doesn’t have to involve going away from the house

"You can only go out for food, health reasons (exercise, medical, or caring for others), or to go to work if you cannot work at home."
Of course, many medical appointments have been postponed or been moved to remote where feasible


----------



## ChrisEyles (5 Apr 2020)

Just saw this and kind of bricking it on a personal level... My mental health has been up & down over the past few years and getting exercise outdoors is pretty much what keeps me on the straight & narrow. 

Never thought this would be deemed necessary, but looks like a plausible scenario now.


----------



## rogerzilla (5 Apr 2020)

I can see it happening. At least I have a garden to rattle around in, a pretty much unlimited list of outdoor jobs that can be done and a basic Tacx Blue to keep me fit. People who live in small flats are going to go stir crazy.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

We're closing parks: Berlin, Chicago , Calgary etc close roads to motor traffic, making them safer to exercise in/on.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

Amazes me that people who have clearly never exercised, are now basically personal trainers and are never at home


----------



## RoadRider400 (5 Apr 2020)

Quite frankly he can sod off if he wants to ban all exercise. Why cant they just gather up the miscreants and chuck them in a van straight to the cells? But no we have to penalise the masses rather than the minority. If they ban exercise then I guess I cant cycle anymore. But will be going for a gentle jog for a few miles on the empty streets in the silly hours of the morning. As a sub 20minute parkrunner if they can catch me then they deserve my money.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Amazes me that people who have clearly never exercised, are now basically personal trainers and are never at home


To be fair, I think Londoners do walk around more than most English, especially in places like Lambeth with many small flats and gardenless houses and below-average car ownership. This crisis is highlighting many places have insufficient remaining open spaces and footways and cycleways that are too narrow (dangerously narrow now) but it's far easier for government and elite media owners to divert blame to the residents than accept that. Don't help them.


----------



## Mugshot (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> To be fair, I think Londoners do *walk* around more than most English, especially in places like *Lambeth*


Well obviously.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> It’s about keeping people indoors, exercise is the one thing of the 4 permitted practices that doesn’t have to involve going away from the house


And there I was, in danger of thinking it was about reducing transmission of the virus!


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Well obviously.


Oi!


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> And there I was, in danger of thinking it was about reducing transmission of the virus!


----------



## ianrauk (5 Apr 2020)

Mugshot said:


> Well obviously.


Very good


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Amazes me that people who have clearly never exercised, are now basically personal trainers and are never at home


Some of these people are going a bit crazy with fear, uncertainty, and/or plain cabin fever. Give em a break!


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2020)

So if I went down to the park and (provided it's not been closed) found a secluded patch of grass and did press-ups and situps and so on I would be a model citizen taking my exercise. But if I stopped moving momentarily and soaked up some rays the Daily Mail reading finger-pointers would descend on me.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Some of these people are going a bit crazy with fear, uncertainty, and/or plain cabin fever. Give em a break!


True, lets go out to a place with hundreds of others 😭😂


----------



## rogerzilla (5 Apr 2020)

Plenty of people here ready to bend the rules to suit themselves. It's the British disease. Me me me.


----------



## PaulSB (5 Apr 2020)

As a random non-scientific sample on a cool Lancashire Sunday with a heavy headwind I observed this.

Over 36 miles I counted 142 cyclists, I'm riding solo so no one to chat with!! 

76 roadies of which 95%+ were riding solo

66 riding flat bar hybrids or similar. The majority looked as though they'd recently dug the bike out of the garage/shed. 90%+ riding in pairs, very likely the same household, and a few family groups.

Excellent to see so many roadies adhering to the guidelines and so many other people taking advantage of the quiet roads to cycle with a partner. Great effort all round.


----------



## DCLane (5 Apr 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Quite frankly he can sod off if he wants to ban all exercise. Why cant they just gather up the miscreants and chuck them in a van straight to the cells? But no we have to penalise the masses rather than the minority.



Sadly that's what I'm expecting to be announced tomorrow.

So the stupids mean the rest of us lose. By far the vast majority I've seen have been following guidance. But that won't matter.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> So if I went down to the park and (provided it's not been closed) found a secluded patch of grass and did press-ups and situps and so on I would be a model citizen taking my exercise. But if I stopped moving momentarily and soaked up some rays the Daily Mail reading finger-pointers would descend on me.


 you've got it!
I've heard that virus molecules are like midges - you're fine until you stop moving!


----------



## BigMeatball (5 Apr 2020)

I knew this was going to happen. People in general are selfish and don't seem to understand that the government is providing some guidance for a reason. And yet people kept behaving like morons and like rules don't apply to them.

I live in the most densely populated area of Edinburgh and the past 2 weeks have been enough to convince me to move out of the city when this situation is over. People here are just the worst , don't give space, don't make any effort, just feel entitled to do whatever they want.

I look forward to a complete lockdown and I look forward even more to these morons getting fined and punished.

Rant over.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Quite frankly he can sod off if he wants to ban all exercise. Why cant they just gather up the miscreants and chuck them in a van straight to the cells? But no we have to penalise the masses rather than the minority. If they ban exercise then I guess I cant cycle anymore. But will be going for a gentle jog for a few miles on the empty streets in the silly hours of the morning. As a sub 20minute parkrunner if they can catch me then they deserve my money.


Surely, that would be roughly the same as being in a park or beach area in close contact, until cells fill up, empty, require cleaning before the next resident etc


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## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> I fear a major lockdown may just be upon us [...]


No no no no, I was told earlier in this discussion that there is no fear being expressed, so this post cannot exist!


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> you've got it!
> I've heard that virus molecules are like midges - you're fine until you stop moving!


I've heard you can't get pregnant the first time you have sex or if you do it standing up


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> I knew this was going to happen. People in general are selfish and don't seem to understand that the government is providing some guidance for a reason. And yet people kept behaving like morons and like rules don't apply to them.


Government keep behaving like morons and pretending that their guidance is the rules when it differs significantly.

It's an old trick: set rules, issue guidance that confuses, whine that people aren't complying but don't say whether it's with the rules or one of the contradictory sets of guidance, don't enforce the rules effectively due to a mix of not enough police and the police being confused by the contradictions too, then use that to justify harsher rules, cheered on by the less tolerant sections of the press and their followers.


----------



## I like Skol (5 Apr 2020)

I've heard the streets of London are paved with gold! If it wasn't for this damn lockdown I'd be down there like a shot to nick a few paving stones....


----------



## ChrisEyles (5 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> As a random non-scientific sample on a cool Lancashire Sunday with a heavy headwind I observed this.
> 
> Over 36 miles I counted 142 cyclists, I'm riding solo so no one to chat with!!
> 
> ...



Blimey, I went out for a couple of hours yesterday and only counted three other cyclists and maybe double the number of walkers - this in mid Devon.


----------



## ozboz (5 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I've heard the streets of London are paved with gold! If it wasn't for this damn lockdown I'd be down there like a shot to nick a few paving stones....


You’d be lucky Mate, I’ve been down ere 8 years now, I’d have had em all by now


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## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I've heard the streets of London are paved with gold! If it wasn't for this damn lockdown I'd be down there like a shot to nick a few paving stones....


That's what the walkers were hoping to do but there was never a point when they were unobserved!

(is your footered challenge postponed yet? Is it a group ride?)


----------



## BigMeatball (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Government keep behaving like morons and pretending that their guidance is the rules when it differs significantly.
> 
> It's an old trick: set rules, issue guidance that confuses, whine that people aren't complying but don't say whether it's with the rules or one of the contradictory sets of guidance, don't enforce the rules effectively due to a mix of not enough police and the police being confused by the contradictions too, then use that to justify harsher rules, cheered on by the less tolerant sections of the press and their followers.



I don't think it can ever be grey, it must be black or white.

Which is why I support either stricter rules or no rules at all.

First case, we manage to contain the virus more effectively. Second case, we let the virus spread and get rid of the morons that think they can do whatever they want.


----------



## ozboz (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I've heard you can't get pregnant the first time you have sex or if you do it standing up


That is true , the only way to get pregnant the first time is ........................................................if you play with belly buttons !!


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

Well from what I can see if we do get a lockdown it won't have been cycling in groups that caused it.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> I don't think it can ever be grey, it must be black or white.


Impossible in such a diverse geographical nation.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Where does it say that, if that is the case then nobody can go shopping, we have to queue outside up to an hour to get into the shop.
> Agreed


The news was full of images of police moving people on from sitting in parks all over. The message obviously isn't getting across about how we as humans shed this virus.


----------



## Jody (5 Apr 2020)

Just posted this in another thread but seems more appropriate in here. It took the police to make this group reconsider their ride out today. 

As if the guidance wasn't clear enough.


----------



## Drago (5 Apr 2020)

What do we think Matt Hancock's ancestors did to earn that surname?


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> What do we think Matt Hancock's ancestors did to earn that surname?


Did he sleep with his hands protecting his chickens?


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

Jody said:


> Just posted this in another thread but seems more appropriate in here. It took the police to make this group reconsider their ride out today.
> 
> As if the guidance wasn't clear enough.
> 
> View attachment 512726


Just the 2,700 comments. He-he!


----------



## dodgy (5 Apr 2020)

Jody said:


> Just posted this in another thread but seems more appropriate in here. It took the police to make this group reconsider their ride out today.
> 
> As if the guidance wasn't clear enough.
> 
> ...



There's a theory it was a wind up and the guy running the group has an agenda. I have no idea, never heard of the group until today.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> There's a theory it was a wind up and the guy running the group has an agenda. I have no idea, never heard of the group until today.


Also read that some of the folk involved have learning difficulties. So it's quite a toughie


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> The news.


That's where you are going wrong, but still nobody seems to be able to provide evidence, where it says 2, 3, 4, x people who share a household cannot go to the park for exercise & that mum & dad, or mum & mum or dad & dad or the rest of the permutations cannot sit & have to keep moving whilst the kids have a runaround without getting near others.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Well from what I can see if we do get a lockdown it won't have been cycling in groups that caused it.


People only see what they want to (a bit like hi viz) It will undoubtedly be due to runners/walkers and cyclists regardless of whether it was or not


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

One thing to consider: What has BoJo been photographed doing most over the years:
- running
- driving
- cycling?

Now, he's smart enough to consider many opinions, but I think deep down, this may be what swings it for us.


----------



## Jody (5 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> There's a theory it was a wind up and the guy running the group has an agenda. I have no idea, never heard of the group until today.



I had my doubts but posts going back well over three years, including group photos of their previous ride outs. 

The only agenda I can see is destroying the group.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> One thing to consider: What has BoJo been photographed doing most over the years:
> - running
> - driving
> - cycling?
> ...


He cycles and runs right? Corbyn loves his bike, Michael Gove loves a run


----------



## Drago (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> That's where you are going wrong, but still nobody seems to be able to provide evidence, where it says 2, 3, 4, x people who share a household cannot go to the park for exercise & that mum & dad, or mum & mum or dad & dad or the rest of the permutations cannot sit & have to keep moving whilst the kids have a runaround without getting near others.


It doesn't say you shouldn't wrap yourself in tinfoil and cook yourself in the oven at gas mark 4 for several hours, but that doesn't mean you should do it.

This virus is killing people. These are emergency regulations, rushed out in a hurry, without the benefit of years of research and months of parliamentary debate to cover all eventualities. Its rough and ready emergency legislation, reliant upon the "common" sense and cooperation of the public to be effective.

You, me, and everyone with half a brain cell knows what we're supposed to be doing to stop the spread of this illness, so I don't know why people feel the need to be so obtuse over the matter.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

Well, I did 60k this morning, though never more than ~20k from home. That's the longest ride I've done this this kicked off.

Hardly anyone around first thing, though did meet a group of 4, which is the largest group I've seen since the lockdown. I treated them to a stern shake of the head. 

On the way home, on more popular roads, absolutely loads of cyclists out, many obviously less experienced than your typical roadie. Brilliant to see and everyone very distant from one another. 

I really hope a positive lasting legacy of cycling popularity can come from this.


----------



## pawl (5 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Plenty of people here ready to bend the rules to suit themselves. It's the British disease. Me me me.





Not able to remember which thread it was or who posted it we should all boo this coming Thursday against what he sees as the governments ineptitude to provide tests etc.Perhaps we should protest against all these idiots who see exercise as having barbecues in parks and seem unable to understand what 6meters apart is.

I wonder if these people have after ignoring the rules have caught the virus if so I hope they think about the consequences of their actions.

Not much hope of that I suppose if they cannot understand the basic guidelines


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Well, I did 60k this morning, though never more than ~20k from home. That's the longest ride I've done this this kicked off.
> 
> Hardly anyone around first thing, though did meet a group of 4, which is the largest group I've seen since the lockdown. I treated them to a stern shake of the head.
> 
> ...


A group of 4 from the same household would be quite unlikely unless some sort of house share arrangement but on a similar note, my sister commented that she'd spotted two women out cycling together last week, no reason other than conversation making. She's cycle positive and happy to see riders out.

It's possible in this day and age that two women live together, much like two blokes


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> He cycles and runs right? Corbyn loves his bike, Michael Gove loves a run


Boris is in charge.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

dodgy said:


> There's a theory it was a wind up and the guy running the group has an agenda. I have no idea, never heard of the group until today.



Wind up


----------



## Kevfm (5 Apr 2020)

We had a dog who, sadly, died a couple of years ago. He was lovable but pretty stupid to be honest, but he was able understand the commands "sit" and "stay" from a young age. 

What is it about the phrase "stay at home" that people find so hard to grasp?


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> On the way home, on more popular roads, absolutely loads of cyclists out, many obviously less experienced than your typical roadie. Brilliant to see and everyone very distant from one another.
> 
> I really hope a positive lasting legacy of cycling popularity can come from this.


I hope so too. But I do fear that we are trying to harpoon it by joining the media frenzy against cyclists.


----------



## srw (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> A group of 4 from the same household would be quite unlikely unless some sort of house share arrangement


Two parents, two children. One parent, three children. Married couple and two lodgers. Two couples renting together. 

It doesn't require a huge stretch of the imagination.


----------



## T4tomo (5 Apr 2020)

Jody said:


> Just posted this in another thread but seems more appropriate in here. It took the police to make this group reconsider their ride out today.
> 
> As if the guidance wasn't clear enough.
> 
> ...


Backs up the old saying, there’s alway one c##t in Scunthorpe.


----------



## pawl (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> True, lets go out to a place with hundreds of others 😭😂




Preferably on a remote island ew have never heard off .


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

Kevfm said:


> We had a dog who, sadly, died a couple of years ago. He was lovable but pretty stupid to be honest, but he was able understand the commands "sit" and "stay" from a young age.
> 
> What is it about the phrase "stay at home" that people find so hard to grasp?


For those who can read more than 3 words:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do
*1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:


shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household
any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home


----------



## T4tomo (5 Apr 2020)

I was out today, saw mainly single riders, but quite a few pairs, predominantly two blokes. So either a lot of people live with their riding buddies or there is quite a big gay cycling scene.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> Two parents, two children. One parent, three children. Married couple and two lodgers. Two couples renting together.
> 
> It doesn't require a huge stretch of the imagination.


The point is, nobody really knows, clever editing of the quote to leave out that bit


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

T4tomo said:


> I was out today, saw mainly single riders, but quite a few pairs, predominantly two blokes. So either a lot of people live with their riding buddies or there is quite a big gay cycling scene.


Cycling under rainbows is better than cycling in rain 🌈


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

I really haven't seen any criticism of cyclists in the news. It all seems be about people in parks and young people in particular. Sine cycling is a clearly allowed activity I don't think it's seen as an issue.


----------



## Adam4868 (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I really haven't seen any criticism of cyclists in the news. It all seems be about people in parks and young people in particular. Sine cycling is a clearly allowed activity I don't think it's seen as an issue.


That's probally because it's only other cyclists complaining about them !


----------



## nickyboy (5 Apr 2020)

T4tomo said:


> I was out today, saw mainly single riders, but quite a few pairs, predominantly two blokes. So either a lot of people live with their riding buddies or there is quite a big gay cycling scene.


Same here, loads of cyclists around Poynton area in Cheshire. Most were solo but there were several "pairs" that were not m/f or parent/child
Taking @srw point that they could be legit "same household". But I doubt it, these were full on roadies. Feels much more likely they were cycling buddies

As such I called them out. I don't care if I got it wrong, I'd rather that than say nothing


----------



## DaveReading (5 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> For those who can read more than 3 words:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do
> *1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
> ...



Except that the above "what you can and can't do" is not exhaustive. 

In fact even the legislation, which is what the police are supposed to be enforcing, does not attempt to list an exhaustive set of purposes for which one is allowed to leave one's home, but simply says "no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse" and then lists a number of *examples *of what constitutes a reasonable excuse, which include the above but also other reasons including attending a close family member's funeral, attending court, accessing critical public services (DWP, social services, etc), access to children who live with the other parent, etc.

No wonder people are confused over what is and isn't allowed.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I really haven't seen any criticism of cyclists in the news. It all seems be about people in parks and young people in particular. Sine cycling is a clearly allowed activity I don't think it's seen as an issue.


YES!!!

But the more we bang on about it, some of it will leak out into the mainstream.

Hopefully it will have no effect on HM Gov policies, but it is corrosive of cycling in general; at a time when we could be encouraging the pastime!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I really haven't seen any criticism of cyclists in the news. It all seems be about people in parks and young people in particular. Sine cycling is a clearly allowed activity I don't think it's seen as an issue.


Daily Mirro had a go but got reamed a new one for cleverly using a zoom lens and image cropping to make riders that were spread well apart look like a group.

They were also all wearing winter type kit so it wasn't taken recently.


----------



## pawl (5 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> Matt Hancock has told the BBC that people need to stop taking the pith or the government will ban "all forms of" outdoor exercise. Well, he said it slightly more politely than that, but that is exactly what he has said.
> 
> Keep it shortish, sensibleish, and closeish to home or you'll ruin it for everyone. I appreciate some people are mileage monsters and arent happy if theyve not done a ton plus every day, 6 days a week, but a quick 10 or 15 is better than zero miles, which is what we'll all be having soon if people don't stop being twits. It's only for a few months, so just grin and bear it.






Perhaps I am lucky.I live in a relatively small village. I can plan circular routes of between 12 to 15 miles so never more than aprox six miles from home Ride duration a bought 75mins

Yes I would love to do longer rides or put the bike in the car and travel up to the Peak District.

It will still be there when this is all over.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The Mail had a go but got reamed a new one for cleverly using a zoom lens and image cropping to make riders that were spread well apart look like a group.
> 
> They were also all wearing winter type kit so it wasn't taken recently.


They also talked about MAMILs in great detail; whereas non-cyclists were just "people" or "groups". Totally transparent agenda


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cyclists-ignore-uk-coronavirus-lockdown-21812777


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> That's where you are going wrong, but still nobody seems to be able to provide evidence, where it says 2, 3, 4, x people who share a household cannot go to the park for exercise & that mum & dad, or mum & mum or dad & dad or the rest of the permutations cannot sit & have to keep moving whilst the kids have a runaround without getting near others.


Not really, this was over a week ago so nothing new. 

View: https://youtu.be/Pu4GWu3cMec


----------



## wyre forest blues (5 Apr 2020)

I went out this morning. 4 x 3.5 mile loops. I was never more than 1.75 miles from home. Total 14 miles in 1 hour. (well I am nearly 70!) To me that is 'local'. I am doing this because I believe 14 miles is sufficient exercise for me and not for 'recreation'. I normally do 50+ mile rides for recreation and exercise. I will not do more in case I have a major mechanical (unlikely as I maintain my bike), and I cannot call on anyone to collect me if I do. Now I've read here and there that we should stay local, but as far as I'm aware the guidelines doesn't say this. (correct me please if I am wrong). I look on Strava and some are doing 40 / 50/ 60 miles, not local and IMO distances that fall into the category of recreation and beyond necessary exercise. I also appreciate that we are all different, with different needs and level of fitness. What are the views of others?


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

wyre forest blues said:


> I went out this morning. 4 x 3.5 mile loops. I was never more than 1.75 miles from home. Total 14 miles in 1 hour. (well I am nearly 70!) To me that is 'local'. I am doing this because I believe 14 miles is sufficient exercise for me and not for 'recreation'. I normally do 50+ mile rides for recreation and exercise. I will not do more in case I have a major mechanical (unlikely as I maintain my bike), and I cannot call on anyone to collect me if I do. Now I've read here and there that we should stay local, but as far as I'm aware the guidelines doesn't say this. (correct me please if I am wrong). I look on Strava and some are doing 40 / 50/ 60 miles, not local and IMO distances that fall into the category of recreation and beyond necessary exercise. I also appreciate that we are all different, with different needs and level of fitness. What are the views of others?


Nothing in Legislation but the guidance is an hours exercise.


----------



## newfhouse (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> *Sine* cycling is a clearly allowed activity


As long as you wave.


----------



## pawl (5 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> It was Brockwell Park
> 125 acres. So quite big. 3000 people in the scheme of things is not a lot compared to the size.




Trouble is even with all of that space for some reason they tend to concentrate together.Human nature I suppose.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> It doesn't say you shouldn't wrap yourself in tinfoil and cook yourself in the oven at gas mark 4 for several hours, but that doesn't mean you should do it.


That sounds a bit low to me, any idea what temperature it is we don't have gas, but I like the idea.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Nothing in Legislation but the guidance is an hours exercise.



Think I missed that can you point me to the guidelines so I can double check?


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Think I missed that can you point me to the guidelines so I can double check?


Michael Gove said it on the Andrew Marr show, suggesting that depending on levels of fitness, 1hr should be plenty.

This has taken a life of it's own and is getting quoted as legislation, it is not. (The NI version)

"
Restrictions on movement
5.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living
without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(a) to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same
household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and
supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the
household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed
in Part 3 of Schedule 2;
(b) to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;
(c) to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph
37 or 38 of Schedule 2;
(d) to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of
paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 2 to the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups (Northern Ireland)
Order 2007(a), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;
(e) to donate blood
(f) to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it
is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the
place where they are living;
(g) to attend a funeral of—
(i) a member of the person’s household,
(ii) a close family member, or
(iii) if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) is attending, a friend;
(h) to fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to
participate in legal proceedings;
(i) to access critical public services, including—
(i) childcare or educational facilities (where these are still available to a child in relation
to whom that person is the parent, or has parental responsibility for, or care of the
child);
(ii) social care services;
(iii) services provided by the Department for Communities;
(iv) services provided to victims (such as victims of crime);
(j) in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of
their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between,
parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person
who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care
of the child;
(k) in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;
(l) to move house where reasonably necessary;"


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Think I missed that can you point me to the guidelines so I can double check?


Don't bother it's not there


----------



## DaveReading (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Daily Mirro had a go but got reamed a new one for cleverly using a zoom lens and image cropping to make riders that were spread well apart look like a group.
> 
> They were also all wearing winter type kit so it wasn't taken recently.



No, it's both genuine and recent.

Visit www.londonnewspictures.co.uk and search for LNP_COVID19_Lockdown_UK_BCA_586.JPG.

The agency's caption is "04/04/2020. London, UK. Cyclists exercising in close proximity around Regents Park in London, during a pandemic outbreak of the Coronavirus COVID-19 disease. "


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> No, it's both genuine and recent.
> 
> Visit www.londonnewspictures.co.uk and search for LNP_COVID19_Lockdown_UK_BCA_586.JPG.
> 
> The agency's caption is "04/04/2020. London, UK. Cyclists exercising in close proximity around Regents Park in London, during a pandemic outbreak of the Coronavirus COVID-19 disease. "


It's not genuine. It's a lens trick, they're well apart


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It's not genuine. It's a lens trick, they're well apart


But unlike the Mail's poorer attempt, Richmond Park has few road markings that undermine the trickery.

Can the misdescription be reported anywhere for action as sowing division during a national crisis?


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It's not genuine. It's a lens trick, they're well apart


Be that as it may, I personally would not want to be riding there, to many people around


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Be that as it may, I personally would not want to be riding there, to many people around


Ditto


----------



## hoopdriver (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> But unlike the Mail's poorer attempt, Richmond Park has few road markings that undermine the trickery.
> 
> Can the misdescription be reported anywhere for action as sowing division during a national crisis?


Independent Press Standards Organisation handles those kinds of complaints.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Don't bother it's not there



I know it's not in the legislation. But if the Government clearly said we only want you to go out for one hour I would stick to it. However they haven't. Gove's comments were not clear advice as far as I am concerned. Why did @Slick say it is one hour?


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I know it's not in the legislation. But if the Government clearly said we only want you to go out for one hour I would stick to it. However they haven't. Gove's comments were not clear advice as far as I am concerned. Why did @Slick say it is one hour?


I can't answer for @Slick but I know I was under the impression it had been said, I thought I had actually heard Boris say it, but on watching the 20:30 announcement again it's not there, so as far as I am concerned I have no idea how it entered my physi


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I know it's not in the legislation. But if the Government clearly said we only want you to go out for one hour I would stick to it. However they haven't. Gove's comments were not clear advice as far as I am concerned. Why did @Slick say it is one hour?


I wouldn't necessesarily disagree with Gove though, we've been told to stay at home with one of many caveats of going out for exercise. I've been out on MTB for relatively short circa 40min rides on my own, but I could if I wished disappear off and ride around Lough Neagh (about 130miles and upwards of 6hrs) 

I don't feel that would be in the spirit of things though, not illegal by any means but perhaps pushing "our" luck a tad.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Same here, loads of cyclists around Poynton area in Cheshire.



My ride finished down the hill from Pott Shrigley to the lights at the Legh Arms


----------



## gavgav (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> They were not shopping however, they were outside presumably for their daily exercise. There’d have been no issue if all were exercising 2m apart, but they weren’t all


I don’t see being sat around in a park as exercise.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Nothing in Legislation but the guidance is an hours exercise.



The guidance, in the quote from Gove which referenced an hour, was that it depends on your fitness.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I wouldn't necessesarily disagree with Gove though, we've been told to stay at home with one of many caveats of going out for exercise. I've been out on MTB for relatively short circa 40min rides on my own, but I could if I wished disappear off and ride around Lough Neagh (about 130miles and upwards of 6hrs)
> 
> I don't feel that would be in the spirit of things though, not illegal by any means but perhaps pushing "our" luck a tad.


I don't disagree at all. But there is a difference between not in the spirit (I won't be doing a 6 hour ride) and saying the guidance says an hour is excessive.


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

gavgav said:


> I don’t see being sat around in a park as exercise.


Precisely


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I don't disagree at all. But there is a difference between not in the spirit (I won't be doing a 6 hour ride) and saying the guidance says an hour is excessive.


Obviously, when the guidance (legislation) doesn't say that to begin with


----------



## geocycle (5 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Precisely



I agree. But we have to remember those without gardens who need some time outside. There is an emerging equality issue here. Maybe instead of closing parks we should be opening golf courses and similar to keep densities low.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> As long as you wave.



If you ride in company is that a cosine?


----------



## Domus (5 Apr 2020)

I have deliberately ignored the weekend for a ride as I knew it would be busier than either Monday or Tuesday. Will check the weather in the morning and hopefully have a quiet solo ride with no interactions. It was a lovely morning early on so did my Couch to 5 K run day 4 at 08.00, one dog walker spotted and one power walker seen in the distance. 👍


----------



## vickster (5 Apr 2020)

geocycle said:


> I agree. But we have to remember those without gardens who need some time outside. There is an emerging equality issue here. Maybe instead of closing parks we should be opening golf courses and similar to keep densities low.


Indeed of course. There’s nothing to stop people walking or running around parks and so on for an hour or so, but it’s the sitting around socialising in multi household groups that’s the issue and has been a no no since social distancing measures came in


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Nothing in Legislation but the guidance is an hours exercise.



No it is not. A throwaway comment on a chat show by Gove. There is nothing in the guidance about an hour.


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2020)

Just by the by I got an email from my local council about the parks. It had some more specific dos and donuts*.

The donuts were - Don't: Gather in groups; Have picnics; Sunbathe.

*autocorrect but I like it.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> If you ride in company is that a cosine?



I'm hoping today's sunshine has sharpened up my tan lines.


----------



## nickyboy (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> My ride finished down the hill from Pott Shrigley to the lights at the Legh Arms


I cycled up the main road from Poynton and turned right at the Legh Arms

Just after I did, two cyclists together came the other way so I called them out. Guess what? Strava flybys show it was two cycling friends riding together. I really can't believe the ignorance of some people. They didn't hide their ride, obviously thought it was fine to do so


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I cycled up the main road from Poynton



Not a road I would normally contemplate à velo, too busy to enjoy. I imagine it was quite pleasant today?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I'm hoping today's sunshine has sharpened up my tan lines.



Careful that could end up with a load of hyperbolic in the tabloids.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Domus said:


> I have deliberately ignored the weekend for a ride as I knew it would be busier than either Monday or Tuesday. Will check the weather in the morning and hopefully have a quiet solo ride with no interactions. It was a lovely morning early on so did my Couch to 5 K run day 4 at 08.00, one dog walker spotted and one power walker seen in the distance. 👍



Round here early morning or late evening are the quietist times. Not that it is busy round here.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Careful that could end up with a load of hyperbolic in the tabloids.



Yeah, then we'd really be under the cosh


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Yeah, then we'd really be under the cosh



and that could escalate exponentially


----------



## nickyboy (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Not a road I would normally contemplate à velo, too busy to enjoy. I imagine it was quite pleasant today?


You're quite right. I've taken to cycling on a number of roads I wouldn't even contemplate normally...Chapel en le Frith bypass and Woodhead Pass from Glossop 

The main road Poynton to Adlington was nice today


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> LNP_COVID19_Lockdown_UK_BCA_586.JPG



It would be interesting to see the exif data for the shot. It looks to me like a long lens was used to give a foreshortening effect, making the riders appear closer together than they really were.


----------



## hoopdriver (5 Apr 2020)

It certainly looks that way to me. And I use long lenses a lot.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> It certainly looks that way to me. And I use long lenses a lot.



Pap?!


----------



## hoopdriver (5 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Pap?!


Nothing so well paid as that - landscape and travel


----------



## BigMeatball (5 Apr 2020)

In Italy they started to give hundreds of euros in fines to the people who were pushing their luck and it seems like that solved the problem quickly. 

I haven't seen the cops enforcing these measures yet, but I really hope they do. 

You have to punish a few to educate the rest.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Round here early morning or late evening are the quietist times. Not that it is busy round here.


Mid morning and mid afternoon or very late evening here. Lots of commuter and commercial traffic ... well, three parts naff all compared to usual, but lots relative to everything else!


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> You're quite right. I've taken to cycling on a number of roads I wouldn't even contemplate normally...Chapel en le Frith bypass and Woodhead Pass from Glossop
> 
> The main road Poynton to Adlington was nice today



The Woodhead is a great call. Last time I enjoyed cycling over there was sometime in the 1990s when the bridge over the reservoir was closed for maintenance but passable for cyclists.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> and that could escalate exponentially



Sorry, but you're off topic, that's a complete tangent.


----------



## Domus (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> They didn't hide their ride, obviously thought it was fine to do so



No, they are just selfish, ignorant, barstewards.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

Does Strava experiment on upsetting and winding up its users like some other social media owners have, or does it just happen naturally?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (5 Apr 2020)

Lots of people out on bikes today our way. The vast majority on their own. I did see a fair few couples out (man and woman so I assumed partners but you don't know)

I did see one group of four, two kids and presumably their parents 

Lots of joggers out as well, all on their own.

Everyone, without exception, was giving everyone plenty of space


----------



## Rusty Nails (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> No it is not. A throwaway comment on a chat show by Gove. There is nothing in the guidance about an hour.



It is amazing how people keep making these 'facts' up, even when it is demonstrated they are not true.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

The offending article

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11284289/daily-walk-or-run-maximum-one-hour-coronavirus/

The Legislation (again)



> Restrictions on movement
> 5.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living
> without reasonable excuse.
> (2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
> ...



Michael Goves opinion is NOT the latter.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I know it's not in the legislation. But if the Government clearly said we only want you to go out for one hour I would stick to it. However they haven't. Gove's comments were not clear advice as far as I am concerned. Why did @Slick say it is one hour?


Obviously everyone is free to to interpret their own understanding of what constitutes guidance and what doesn't is up to them, but if we were currently doing it correctly, we wouldn't be under threat of losing that right quite so soon. The rules say, we must minimise the time we spend away from the home as every time we step out the door we increase our risk of catching it or passing it on and place an undue burden on our NHS. I think the whole point of the daily briefings is not only to give us the figures but to provide further explanation as to justify why we are taking the steps we are taking to ensure we have the best chance possible. Boris mentioned the 60 minute exercise as being reasonable and yes Gove gave further guidance on the hour but added the caveat of fitness level, which is why I would have no issues with the pro triathlete that posted the 200k ride on Strava or whatever the exact circumstances were. I personally take the rules at face value and make decisions on what that means for me as I know the difference between guidance and Legislation. 



roubaixtuesday said:


> The guidance, in the quote from Gove which referenced an hour, was that it depends on your fitness.


Yeah, I did realise that and accept that. 


YukonBoy said:


> No it is not. A throwaway comment on a chat show by Gove. There is nothing in the guidance about an hour.


It's a political show used since its inception by politicians to get their message across. Politicians don't make throwaway statements in such an environment especially in these times.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

When did Boris mention 60 mins?


----------



## ColinJ (5 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> Trouble is even with all of that space for some reason they tend to concentrate together.Human nature I suppose.


It is human nature for _sociable _humans - even before this crisis I used to work out where everyone was going and go somewhere else instead!

A friend of mine used to go to Glastonbury every year and loved it. I would pay NOT to have to go...

There is a really nice park in Todmorden but I don't go there very often because unless you go very early or very late it tends to have people in it.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> When did Boris mention 60 mins?


On one of his speeches since he was I'll.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

Once they get the likes of the Health Minister and Scotland's Chief Medical Officer to obey the rules and it doesn't work, then they can talk about more restrictions IMO. Otherwise it feels like punishing the pleb lions while the donkeys carry on uncontrolled.


----------



## mjr (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> On one of his speeches since he was I'll.


Which one? Or is that proof by "vigorous hand-waving"?


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

I went out this morning on the MTB across the bridleways & fields, as I was climbing a slope another guy on the MTB was catching me I was at one side of the farm track he was at the other at least 10 feet away, we were riding into a headwind, he wasn't quite sure where he was going, he was trying to cross the A1, so we rode together for about 1/2 mile until he turned off, never closer than 10ft, yet if you look at the Strava flyby it looks like we were together, he'd also been following me for 3 miles before that.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> In Italy they started to give hundreds of euros in fines to the people who were pushing their luck and it seems like that solved the problem quickly.
> 
> I haven't seen the cops enforcing these measures yet, but I really hope they do.
> 
> You have to punish a few to educate the rest.


don't forget that Italy has had different laws (different guidelines).


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Which one? Or is that proof by "vigorous hand-waving"?


I was hoping to avoid trawling through them especially as it's not inconceivable I am mistaken on Boris as we have been inundated with all sorts lately.


----------



## srw (5 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I cycled up the main road from Poynton and turned right at the Legh Arms
> 
> Just after I did, two cyclists together came the other way so I called them out. Guess what? Strava flybys show it was two cycling friends riding together. I really can't believe the ignorance of some people. They didn't hide their ride, obviously thought it was fine to do so


I went out on a ride today with my cycling friend. It so happens that we live together, but if we were both on Strava it would be impossible to deduce that from anything online. We also spent almost all of the time more than 2m apart - because a solo bike is about 1.5m long.

You'll have a fit when I tell you that we're going to get our tandem out soon.

All of that is just as much within both the spirit and the letter of the law as this sort of thing.



nickyboy said:


> You're quite right. I've taken to cycling on a number of roads I wouldn't even contemplate normally...Chapel en le Frith bypass and Woodhead Pass from Glossop
> 
> The main road Poynton to Adlington was nice today


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> proof by "vigorous hand-waving"?



Don't knock it. I've relied on it for most of my life.


----------



## Blue Hills (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> In Italy they started to give hundreds of euros in fines to the people who were pushing their luck and it seems like that solved the problem quickly.
> 
> I haven't seen the cops enforcing these measures yet, but I really hope they do.
> 
> You have to punish a few to educate the rest.


Fines are notoriously high in italy. Though there is a lotof discretion in whether they are applied, some would say for bent reasons. I wouldn't favour the italian approach for all sorts of reasons.
From my london experience (may post details later) i would say that instances of folk taking the p are greatly greatly exaggerated.

Edit
I cycled a fair bit round central london yesterday.
My impressions are very similar to this
BBC News - Coronavirus: Sophie Raworth's deserted London
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-52155029

Social distancing was a piece of p.


----------



## Phaeton (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> I was hoping to avoid trawling through them especially as it's not inconceivable I am mistaken on Boris as we have been inundated with all sorts lately.


This is very interesting as I'm sure I have also heard him say it, but really as others have harped on it may have been words of advice but not the legislation (yet), but as others have also said, it will be very unlikely that if it does come it cyclist will be blamed.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> This is very interesting as I'm sure I have also heard him say it, but really as others have harped on it may have been words of advice but not the legislation (yet), but as others have also said, it will be very unlikely that if it does come it cyclist will be blamed.


I had a quick check on Twitter but got bored very quickly but I think people are becoming more aware of the restrictions now anyway, if the news is anything to go by. Cyclists probably will get blamed but I personally feel safer on the bike but that may have more to do with where I live.


----------



## hoopdriver (5 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Lots of people out on bikes today our way. The vast majority on their own. I did see a fair few couples out (man and woman so I assumed partners but you don't know)
> 
> I did see one group of four, two kids and presumably their parents
> 
> ...


I noticed the same on my ride - people seriously trying to do the right thing while getting a dose if fresh air and exercise.


----------



## Maverick Goose (5 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Well, I did 60k this morning, though never more than ~20k from home. That's the longest ride I've done this this kicked off.
> 
> Hardly anyone around first thing, though did meet a group of 4, which is the largest group I've seen since the lockdown. I treated them to a stern shake of the head.
> 
> ...


Me too-really heartening to see so many families out and about.


----------



## carlosfandangus (5 Apr 2020)

I went out today (mid morning) I was impressed by a family of 4 who were half way up a climb, good view at the top, you could tell that they were not used to making the effort


----------



## Mo1959 (5 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> I went out today (mid morning) I was impressed by a family of 4 who were half way up a climb, good view at the top, you could tell that they were not used to making the effort


It’s great to see. I would love to think at least some might keep it up, but I suspect when this is over and traffic becomes heavy again they will sadly put their bikes back in the garage.


----------



## matticus (5 Apr 2020)

My ride this afternoon was slow off-road stuff mainly, so not many miles - it lasted for about 4 pages of this thread.
Does this exceed official guidelines??


----------



## carlosfandangus (5 Apr 2020)

I hope that some find the benefits of getting some fresh air once a day, who knows, it may stick with some.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> It's a political show used since its inception by politicians to get their message across. Politicians don't make throwaway statements in such an environment especially in these times.



They make them all the time.

Government policy, especially the law is not determined by what they say in response to a politics chat show question. he did not even recommend 1 hour as the exercise period in his response. But even he had that is not a guideline nor policy.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> They make them all the time.
> 
> Government policy, especially the law is not determined by what they say in response to a politics chat show question. he did not even recommend 1 hour as the exercise period in his response. But even he had that is not a guideline nor policy.


No they don't, they are on there to get their point across and as I've explained I know it's neither policy or legislation but it is what Michael Gove thinks is reasonable and as a minister of the cabinet who are the authorities likely to take their guidance from, CCers or a cabinet minister on a chat show?


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> No they don't, they are on there to get their point across and as I've explained I know it's neither policy or legislation but it is what Michael Gove thinks is reasonable and as a minister of the cabinet who are the authorities likely to take their guidance from, CCers or a cabinet minister on a chat show?


Chief Medical Officers and others of actual authority and substance. Not a Michael Gove soundbyte


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Chief Medical Officers and others of actual authority and substance. Not a Michael Gove soundbyte


Not being funny but they are advised by the best in the country.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Not being funny but they are advised by the best in the country.


And Michael Goves opinion is just that


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

I don't like Gove anymore than most but to take a cabinet ministers word as guidance is not a bad philosophy regardless of how you want to treat it. Matt Hancock warned those breaking the rules and those pushing the boundaries. I think the advice is clear.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> No they don't, they are on there to get their point across and as I've explained I know it's neither policy or legislation but it is what Michael Gove thinks is reasonable and as a minister of the cabinet who are the authorities likely to take their guidance from, CCers or a cabinet minister on a chat show?



For a sedentary person who normally does no exercise. He does not think it reasonable for a more active person. As he himself said it depends on your level of fitness.

The authorities will take their guidance from the law as that is what they enforce and not ministers chat show comments. The latter is called a police state , and last time I checked the U.K. isn’t one.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

No, they're well known for talking absolute sheite.

ps: It's Matt Hancock


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> For a sedentary person who normally does no exercise. He does not think it reasonable for a more active person.


I think I've dealt with the caveat added.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> No, they're well known for talking absolute sheite.
> 
> ps: It's Matt Hancock


Wtf is Nick?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> I think I've dealt with the caveat added.



It still wasn’t guidance or a recommendation just a view on what a normally inactive person should be able to manage.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It still wasn’t guidance or a recommendation just a view on what a normally inactive person should be able to manage.


No it wasn't, have another listen.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> No it wasn't, have another listen.



I did, doesn’t change what he actually said.

There are no mandated maximum limits either in law or in the guidance on exercise.

You are seeing guidance where no such guidance was issued , and nor would it be an appropriate place for such matters. Stick to the law and what is published and you won’t go wrong nor be bending any rules. The law is what police enforce.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

I can only think it's you who doesn't know the difference, I've separated the difference in a few posts now.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

> "Well, obviously it depends on each individual's fitness. "I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate."


Goves opinion, nothing more, nothing advisory, nothing legislative.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (5 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Wtf is Nick?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> View attachment 512866



It ain’t over...


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> In Italy they started to give hundreds of euros in fines to the people who were pushing their luck and it seems like that solved the problem quickly.



Not according to Italian press. They report that yesterday, despite 30,000 fewer checks being made than the day before, there was a record high of fines issued: almost 9,300. This included 10 people who were infected and violated their personal quarantine.


----------



## Slick (5 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> View attachment 512866


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2020)

See here for FAQ of what you can and can't do
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

This (London specific) notes that temporary measures may be put in place by those managing open spaces. So local parks management may add extra rules.
https://www.london.gov.uk/coronavirus/london-parks-and-green-spaces-covid-19-guidance


----------



## ozboz (5 Apr 2020)

Back to riding for a min, I rode today Richmond to Sheen , Sheen to Twickenham , Twickenham to Richmond. I was as I thought riding solo , but as I was plodding along it did dawn on me that at every set of lights or roundabout i was on the tail of , and others were on my tail , we became a group by circumstance , mostly as I riding solo , but to those around us we would have resembled a group of riders bobbing through , observing the 2m rule as best we could we navigated through the towns and then peeled off to go on toward our own destinations without any fuss, A photo would have suggested we were cyclists behaving badly ,


----------



## DaveReading (5 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> See here for FAQ of what you can and can't do
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do



And then, once you've been misled by that, see here for what the law does and doesn't allow you to do:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

which, incidentally, specifies several other reasons for which you may legitimately leave home (and also allows for other, unspecified purposes provided they are reasonable).


----------



## Milzy (5 Apr 2020)

What's so special about this thread? They dare not stop out exercise. That women from Newcastle even had her case overturned. What a joke.


----------



## BigMeatball (5 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Not according to Italian press. They report that yesterday, despite 30,000 fewer checks being made than the day before, there was a record high of fines issued: almost 9,300. This included 10 people who were infected and violated their personal quarantine.



Yes, I spoke to friends of mine in Italy. Mainly people in the North of Italy are following the rules after the fines were introduced, while people in the south of Italy are still behaving like morons and that's where most of the fines come from.


----------



## ColinJ (5 Apr 2020)

Maverick Goose said:


> Me too-really heartening to see so many families out and about.


I have been following*** the cycling progress of a little boy in a local cul-de-sac. His dad has been teaching him to ride his bike in the traffic-free road. The first few times I spotted him he could only keep going for a couple of seconds. I saw him a week or so later and he was whizzing through a slalom made of 6 or 7 large paint tins spread out every couple of metres in a line down the road. It is impressively rapid progress and he seems to love riding the bike!  



*** I pass the end of the street on my way to the shops.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (5 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> Yes, I spoke to friends of mine in Italy. Mainly people in the North of Italy are following the rules after the fines were introduced, while people in the south of Italy are still behaving like morons and that's where most of the fines come from.



There may be regional differences in compliance but nationally the number of fines is at a record high so it was wrong to conclude that as a result of the introduction of fines 👇


BigMeatball said:


> it seems like that solved the problem quickly.


----------



## lane (5 Apr 2020)

"Did you ride with someone who didn't record". Probably best not for the time being.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> John Bacchus wont be happy!


I'm not sure of the reference 😂


----------



## BigMeatball (5 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> There may be regional differences in compliance but nationally the number of fines is at a record high so it was wrong to conclude that as a result of the introduction of fines 👇


Yes sure, I wasn't saying you were wrong, I just meant that the fines solved the problem quickly everywhere in Italy at first, but then differences between regions came up. 

I guess the same could happen in the uk. So, let's start an hypothetical poll: which region in the uk could be the most fined?


----------



## newfhouse (5 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> If there were two cyclists it could have been a cosine.


Let’s not go off on a tangent.


----------



## DaveReading (5 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'm not sure of the reference 😂



Someone will be along shortly to explain it to you gently.


----------



## anothersam (6 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> As long as you wave.





Roger Longbottom said:


> If there were two cyclists it could have been a cosine.





newfhouse said:


> Let’s not go off on a tangent.


Too late.

View: https://youtu.be/PIWJo5uK3Fo


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Someone will be along shortly to explain it to you gently.


Appreciated muchly 😋


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> Yes, I spoke to friends of mine in Italy. Mainly people in the North of Italy are following the rules after the fines were introduced, while people in the south of Italy are still behaving like morons and that's where most of the fines come from.


were these friends from the north?
where does their information come from?


----------



## Drago (6 Apr 2020)

Milzy said:


> What's so special about this thread? They dare not stop out exercise. That women from Newcastle even had her case overturned. What a joke.


You're a bit premature - it's not yet been overturned. BTP have said they will apply to the court for the conviction to be set aside, but that will require another hearing, and you can't make the presumption that the court will agree to do so.

Even then, that was a massive procedural clanger on the part of BTP who charged her under the _wrong legislation_, not a failure of the correct legislation.

Government ministers are making it very clear that if people don't stop arsing about they will ban all forms of outdoor exercise. They have the remit to protect life and limb, the motivation, and the legislative wherewithal to do so. You, on the other hand, have no moral or legal grounds upon which to counter if/when they do so.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Apr 2020)

View: https://twitter.com/vivmondo/status/1246802782671306753?s=19


----------



## HMS_Dave (6 Apr 2020)

I would wager that in the event of an all out ban, those that flout the current lock down law/legislation would openly disregard the blanket ban on exercise whilst destroying the majorities hope of reasonable exercise which brings in its own health implications. The law needs to be swift and firm with the dimwits and repeated offenders to serve as a deterrent as to not bring in a total lock down. Or gift them the finest Government owned live grenade💣 and dive for cover. But perhaps the latter is a little bit of an overly expressive imagination... Who Knows!?


----------



## Guzzi (6 Apr 2020)

Posters saying "thats just what Michael Gove/Matt Hancock says, it's not the law" should really check what the Conservative Majority is and whether there is an effective opposition.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2020)

If you look at the bigger picture - such as what the Gov Medical Officers are saying - then I think they will only bring in more severe measures if the numbers aren't brought under control. (of course there are huge subjective judgements just in that one phrase!). I'd like to think that the threats are just crowd control (probably a good thing, even though I dislike the police state tendencies as much as the next man).

Currently? My money says no tightening. And eventually there will be a staged loosening of laws/guidance. Anyone that disagrees is welcome to show me *their* money!


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> John Bacchus was the police sergeant in the George Gently series (obviously set in the sixties) and he had very "of the period" views on "homos" as he termed them and non white people. Women weren't spared his views either!


I do get the reference 👍🌈 although never watched enough of the series to get into the meat of it


----------



## Phaeton (6 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> If you look at the bigger picture - such as what the Gov Medical Officers are saying - then I think they will only bring in more severe measures if the numbers aren't brought under control. (of course there are huge subjective judgements just in that one phrase!). I'd like to think that the threats are just crowd control (probably a good thing, even though I dislike the police state tendencies as much as the next man).
> 
> Currently? My money says no tightening. And eventually there will be a staged loosening of laws/guidance. Anyone that disagrees is welcome to show me *their* money!


I wonder what the chances are of armed army soldiers just wandering through parks & open areas, but I've with you, I don't think they want to tighten the rules, they just need to enforce them in certain areas.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Apr 2020)

Guzzi said:


> Posters saying "thats just what Michael Gove/Matt Hancock says, it's not the law" should really check what the Conservative Majority is and whether there is an effective opposition.


The lack of opposition doesn't make someones opinion, legislation


----------



## Milkfloat (6 Apr 2020)

I welcome the fact that there is quite a big disparity between the official advice and what is legal. This gives plenty of flexibility in an ever changing situation and shows that largely the population is following the advice very well. I would not want draconian laws added to the statute that may never get rescinded, I much prefer the 'by consent' approach that we have now.


----------



## BigMeatball (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> were these friends from the north?
> where does their information come from?



Both north and south, although the majority from the north.

Information comes from what they see day to day and what they read in the local news (which seems to be a tad more reliable than the big national one).


----------



## figbat (6 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The lack of opposition doesn't make someones opinion, legislation


I wasn't quite sure what to make of the "this isn't a request, it's an instruction" comment. What power do they believe they have to issue "instructions" via press release? It's strong words with no teeth which further adds to the "rules vs law" debate, and subsequent confusion or belligerence.


----------



## Guzzi (6 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The lack of opposition doesn't make someones opinion, legislation



When I want something to happen at work first I hint, then I tell then I enforce. This is actually part of Management Trainning.

Gove hinted keep it reasonable, Hancock told don't push the boundries the next stage seems obvious, the lack of an Opposition makes it easy


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Apr 2020)

figbat said:


> I wasn't quite sure what to make of the "this isn't a request, it's an instruction" comment. What power do they believe they have to issue "instructions" via press release? It's strong words with no teeth which further adds to the "rules vs law" debate, and subsequent confusion or belligerence.


Yup. Nobody would have mentioned 1hr if it wasn't for Goves opinion, but that's taken off on a tangent of it's own.




Guzzi said:


> When I want something to happen at work first I hint, then I tell then I enforce. This is actually part of Management Trainning.
> 
> Gove hinted keep it reasonable, Hancock told don't push the boundries the next stage seems obvious, the lack of an Opposition makes it easy


The legislation allows excercise outdoors with no time limit or geofence.

Michael Goves opinion does not change this,
Matt Hancocks opinion does not change this,
Kier Starmers opinion does not change this,

The lack of opposition govt is highly irrelevant. The Coronavirus 2020 legislation changes when it changes regardless of how many seats Labour have.


----------



## Guzzi (6 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Yup. Nobody would have mentioned 1hr if it wasn't for Goves opinion, but that's taken off on a tangent of it's own.
> 
> 
> The legislation allows excercise outdoors with no time limit or geofence.
> ...



The CURRENT legislation what makes you think they can't introduce more?


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Apr 2020)

Guzzi said:


> The CURRENT legislation what makes you think they can't introduce more?


I have said multiple times that exercise will be banned, and to do that legislation will have to change.

I even said it in the quoted post above 💁💁


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> Both north and south, although the majority from the north.
> 
> Information comes from what they see day to day and what they read in the local news (which seems to be a tad more reliable than the big national one).


ok, reason i asked is because i know a fair few northern italians have a very negative view of the south in general. and many in the north,initially at least, didn't cover themselves in glory.
anyways, i still favour the brit approach - i was in central london two days ago, cycling down the mall saw a police car very very slowly cruising Saint james park, even across the grass, they were clearly asking/advising/telling some folks, but only a minority, to go home. rest, the vast majority, they left to themselves as they were clearly being sensible. park wasn't crowded.


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I have said multiple times that exercise will be banned, and to do that legislation will have to change.
> 
> I even said it in the quoted post above 💁💁


Disagree - I don't think exercise will be banned at all.

I very much doubt that the police would welcome such a move.

Certain places may be closed for a while if they become too crowded.


----------



## mjr (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> ok, reason i asked is because i know a fair few northern italians have a very negative view of the south in general. and many in the north,initially at least, didn't cover themselves in glory.
> anyways, i still favout the brit approach - i was in central london two days ago, cycling down the mall saw a police car very very slowly crusing st james park, even across the grass, they were clearly asking/advising/telling some folks, but only a minority, to go home. rest, the vast majority, they left to themselves as they were clearly being sensible. park wasn't crowded.
> 
> View attachment 512931


"We will have no choice but to close the parks". British passive-aggressiveness, literally!


----------



## glasgowcyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> a fair few northern italians have a very negative view of the south in general



Yes, there's the whole polentoni/terroni thing that can rear its ugly head now and again.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2020)

A north-south divide you say? How European!

;-)


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> "We will have no choice but to close the parks". British passive-aggressiveness, literally!


Not passive aggressive at all.
Perfectly reasonable.
Much prefer to having a machine gun pointed at me - bbc may not have done italians any favours by, for some reason, in the early days, choosing to continue to use the same bits of film of machine gun armed italian carabinieri on the edge of the squares in front of st peters and milan cathedral.
I will be crusing through a park or two on the bike later - don't recall ever seeing so many folk in crystal palace park as I did the other day but it's a very big park and everyone i saw was being sensible. My circuit round dulwich park circle was getting a bit cramped - not because folk were being nits but because so many folk had ended up there.
So I left and that's how I ended up in central london - one of the best places at the mo I would imagine (I won't go if it changes) to maintain distance in the country. I seemed to notice more police cars than I would normally but none of them bothered me.


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> A north-south divide you say? How European!
> 
> ;-)


anyone who knows Italy know that it operates in "reverse" in Italy. Not unknown for northerners to call the south Africa. Have had to point this out to one or two southerners who have displayed their own racism.


----------



## mjr (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Not passive aggressive at all.
> Perfectly reasonable.


I'm not saying it's unreasonable, but it is literally passive-aggressiveness, complete with use of a passive voice. In fact, I would bet on Royal Parks closing before they were given no choice, as seen at Richmond park.


----------



## I like Skol (6 Apr 2020)

Maverick Goose said:


> Me too-really heartening to see so many families out and about.





carlosfandangus said:


> I went out today (mid morning) I was impressed by a family of 4 who were half way up a climb, good view at the top, you could tell that they were not used to making the effort


I must admit it has cheered me up to see families making good use of their (enforced) free time, the quieter roads and reasonable weather to take the opportunity to get some exercise and time outdoors.
I cycled to work on Thu & Fri and in the evenings when cycling home after 7pm I saw multiple instances of mum and kids riding along the near deserted pavements and a few cases of dad riding with child but using the roads instead and riding along behind the child in a protective position and appearing to be taking the occurrence of quiet roads to give some road use training.
Without speculating I'm not sure why the apparent gender difference in approach, but it's good to see anyway. Long may it continue after the lockdown ends.


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Yes, there's the whole polentoni/terroni thing that can rear its ugly head now and again.


yes - sad - I chucked the terroni thing at a southerner a while ago - because they were being racist - can't remember if it was about black folk or chinese.
such is the sadness of human nature.
I'm a northern brit and have experienced some crap in my time from southern brits but it's on a different scale in Italy - pretty much racism.


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

By the by, in London at the mo am pretty much cycling on the roads - anyone who knows london know that these days it has some excellent two-way segregated cycle lanes - but this puts you closer than 2 metres to other folks.


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Apr 2020)

If you read Tim Moore's "Geronimo!" (yes, it's about bikes), parts of the south have barely changed in centuries. Peasant farmers and little infrastructure.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> If you read Tim Moore's "Geronimo!" (yes, it's about bikes), parts of the south have barely changed in centuries. Peasant farmers and little infrastructure.


Just read it anyway, it's a great book.


----------



## mjr (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> By the by, in London at the mo am pretty much cycling on the roads - anyone who knows london know that these days it has some excellent two-way segregated cycle lanes - but this puts you closer than 2 metres to other folks.


Some do, some don't. This is another reason why government should take the 2.5m bog standard effective width as an absolute minimum. Any sections narrower than that are now effectively one way or give-and-take. I thought most of the last two waves of London protected two way cycleways were that wide... But the carriageways out here are so quiet at the minute that it's almost interesting to ride bits that are usually effectively unavailable and I think it's similar in London from TV news.


----------



## I like Skol (6 Apr 2020)

Just thought it appropriate to post this that greeted me as I strolled in the main entrance to my local Sainsbury's to do my weekly family shop!!!


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Just thought it appropriate to post this that greeted me as I strolled in the main entrance to my local Sainsbury's to do my weekly family shop!!!
> View attachment 512953


Noticed the same in Lidl here ! Barbecues and easter eggs.In some ways maybe it would be better if it pi5sed it down all weekend.


----------



## Phaeton (6 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Noticed the same in Lidl here ! Barbecues and easter eggs.In some ways maybe it would be better if it pi5sed it down all weekend.


Local Aldi put all their Easter eggs just inside the doorway, which meant trying to get into the store took longer as people were ina confined space to look at them & there was no safe way to get past.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (6 Apr 2020)

What's wrong with bbqs and Easter eggs?

Genuine question.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Local Aldi put all their Easter eggs just inside the doorway, which meant trying to get into the store took longer as people were ina confined space to look at them & there was no safe way to get past.



They probably thought they’d hatched an eggselent plan.


----------



## Phaeton (6 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> What's wrong with bbqs and Easter eggs?
> 
> Genuine question.


Like everything else, used wisely within the regulations Nothing, but not everybody will do that.


----------



## Adam4868 (6 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> What's wrong with bbqs and Easter eggs?
> 
> Genuine question.


If you've not tried it...here's a spoiler they melt.


----------



## vickster (6 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Like everything else, used wisely within the regulations Nothing, but not everybody will do that.


Indeed, nothing to stop households having BBQs and enjoying Easter as best they can in their own homes / gardens.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> If you've not tried it...here's a spoiler they melt.



Easter eggs fondue via a BBQ. Now we are talking.


----------



## carlosfandangus (6 Apr 2020)

My neighbors are South African and barbecue (Braai) is in there blood, they have had 2 in the garden this last week, however it is only mum,dad and their 2 young daughters not a gathering (it usually is)


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

On the parks, kinda related to the thread, good to see some common sense and broad humanity from the communities sec and labour deputy leader.
You can be further away from someone in a park than a next door neighbour over the fence (if you have a garden)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52181808

It also says Brockwell Park in south london is open again - well out of range of the derbyshire police drone i assume.

I see nothing wrong with sunbathing as long as you obey distancing rules.


----------



## Guzzi (6 Apr 2020)

perhaps changing some of the enterances to brockwell park to entry/exit only would be an idea to keep people 2m apart going in and out


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2020)

I think they could do a lot in built up areas by blocking off many roads so they can’t be driven down. That then opens up much more space for people to get exercise and maintain spacing without worrying about cars.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Noticed the same in Lidl here ! Barbecues and easter eggs.In some ways maybe it would be better if it pi5sed it down all weekend.



Nothing wrong with having a bbq in your own garden. Lots of people will benefit from being outdoors while keeping within the guidance. I might get one myself.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I think they could do a lot in built up areas by blocking off many roads so they can’t be driven down. That then opens up much more space for people to get exercise and maintain spacing without worrying about cars.


See Berlin, Chicago, Calgary. Bogota ...

Some cities have just massively widened existing bike-lanes.

These aren't very difficult things to do! Assuming you dare to risk upsetting the pressssscious motorists ...


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> I see nothing wrong with sunbathing as long as you obey distancing rules.


Neither do I. But note that (for London at least) there was a communication from the council about things not to do while exercising/out in the park, and sunbathing was one of them.

On the subject of BBQs some friends of mine had a BBQ at the weekend. Or so they told me by email. They didn't invite me. 

Can't see the problem with shops selling BBQ fuel. I'd have one myself were it not for the fact that it's an enormous pointless faff for food that would be nicer cooked in the oven.


----------



## Rusty Nails (6 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> A north-south divide you say? How European!
> 
> ;-)


 
Very Welsh!


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## snorri (6 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Can't see the problem with shops selling BBQ fuel. I'd have one myself were it not for the fact that it's an enormous pointless faff for food that would be nicer cooked in the oven.


Your words deserve so much more than a simple 'Like'.


----------



## figbat (6 Apr 2020)

Taking a dogmatic view:

- sunbathing in a public place is not a legally-permitted "reasonable excuse" to "leave the place where they are living".
- BBQ fuel is not a "basic necessity", being neither "food" nor "medical supplies for those in the same household", nor is it needed "for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household".

So putting aside the social responsibility morals and government spokesperson advice, it seems to me to be illegal. On the sunbathing one I'd happily go with the law. On the BBQ fuel it falls into the same category as deodorant, crisps, artichoke and myriad other non-essential items that may reasonably be picked up during a shopping event intended primarily for essential needs.

I don't think we have any charcoal left, but we do have a large wood pile, which I am considering chopping further to become BBQ fuel.


----------



## Rusty Nails (6 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> *As a Gog, *I agree, oh for some money spent up here!


----------



## glasgowcyclist (6 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> yes - sad - I chucked the terroni thing at a southerner a while ago - because they were being racist - can't remember if it was about black folk or chinese.
> such is the sadness of human nature.
> I'm a northern brit and have experienced some crap in my time from southern brits but it's on a different scale in Italy - pretty much racism.



If you've not already seen it, I can recommend the film 'Benvenuti al Sud', which deals with that whole north/south situation. It's feckin' hilarious.

_"Overwhelmed by his wife, a postal worker from Northern Italy feigns disability to request a transfer to Milan. When he's unmasked, he is sent to a tiny village near Naples for two years. He moves there alone, scared and full of the typical prejudice about the south. But he meets lovely people who quickly make him feel at home. Now the challenge is to explain this to his wife, so he chooses to make her believe that his life is hell."_​


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Apr 2020)

figbat said:


> it falls into the same category as deodorant, *crisps*, artichoke and myriad other non-essential items


Crisps? Non essential? What madness is this? 

Are you one of those Marie-Antoinette "let them eat Wotsits" types?


----------



## figbat (6 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Crisps? Non essential? What madness is this?
> 
> Are you one of those Marie-Antoinette "let them eat Wotsits" types?


Sorry, should've been more specific. Obviously there are the essential varieties - cheese and onion, salt and vinegar, ready salted - I assumed this went without saying.


----------



## Vantage (6 Apr 2020)

Tangy Toms are essential. Very much so.


----------



## nickyboy (6 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> On the parks, kinda related to the thread, good to see some common sense and broad humanity from the communities sec and labour deputy leader.
> You can be further away from someone in a park than a next door neighbour over the fence (if you have a garden)
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52181808
> ...


I don't think I agree with the sunbathing

Philosophically, we are supposed to stay at home other than for essential trips outside the home (of which "exercise" is determined to be essential)

Sunbathing isn't essential. Of course it's easy to argue that it does no harm but it's the thin end of the wedge. If we allow the great British public to decide what's ok and what isn't there'll be plenty of issues

On balance, I think we should stick with "stay at home unless you're doing one of those essential activities", at least for now


----------



## Phaeton (6 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I don't think I agree with the sunbathing
> 
> Philosophically, we are supposed to stay at home other than for essential trips outside the home (of which "exercise" is determined to be essential)
> 
> ...


I suppose if we were North Korea, China etc. then you are correct stay at home means stay at home or you will be shot, but I'd like to think we are a little more civilised, there are people who would not even see the sunshine if they didn't go outside. In those circumstances it is possible that a short walk 15 minutes sunbathing is an essential journey. I agree it is a difficult scenario, in an ideal world everybody would have space to sunbath in their own garden, but by the same token in an ideal world we wouldn't be in the state we currently are.

I still think the most dangerous place currently is supermarkets, not 30M away from somebody else in a park.


----------



## matticus (6 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Sunbathing isn't essential. Of course it's easy to argue that it does no harm but it's the thin end of the wedge. If we allow the great British public to decide what's ok and what isn't there'll be plenty of issues


But almost _all _of the Great British Public _have _decided for themselves, and not created any problems. The parks are full of Brits sunbathing 5-10m apart. Almost everyone is sensible. The infection numbers won't change just because 2 people in London do something a bit stupid - what matters is what 99% of the public do.

The people in shops and on the tube completely wipe-out any advantage gained by telling those sunbathers to Move Along Now Please. Them and the groups of teenagers I see almost every dry evening … <grumble> ...


----------



## icowden (6 Apr 2020)

Indeed. There are blocks of flats in the centre of leafy Walton (new ones of course). Some of those flats (the more "affordable" ones don't have any walls that open to the exterior. So no windows. If you have a family or just want to stay sane, I think you have to go outdoors somewhere. Communal gardens too communal? Park across the road? Down by the river? All of these expose you to risk, but so does staying in a flat with no windows for 12 weeks.

It's easy if you have a garden and live in an openish area, but hard if you living somewhere more built up.


----------



## carlosfandangus (6 Apr 2020)

Be sensible is the ask, however I understand the thin end of the wedge, I have just been out and there is quite a few people out, mostly families, we have an old building stock in town, not many have a garden (terraced) most people gave up the thought of a garden as they are so close to the beach, a lot have also been turned into flats, we also have a lot of apartments on the sea front the ones on the front look out to sea, the cheaper ones at the back just look at a cliff face.

Social distancing is the answer, however the thin end of the wedge rears its ugly head.


----------



## mjr (6 Apr 2020)

figbat said:


> - BBQ fuel is not a "basic necessity", being neither "food" nor "medical supplies for those in the same household", nor is it needed "for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household".


Seeing as you were "taking a dogmatic view", is there really any court in the land that will start ruling which forms of otherwise-legal fuel are permitted to be used for what? All of you that use fossil-gas cookers are environmentally-harmful all the time and we've not outlawed that as non-essential just because more cleanly-generated electric is available. So I think charcoal cooking is legal and as essential as any other cooking fuel.

Hey, maybe all cooking fuel is non-essential - you could eat salads!


----------



## Racing roadkill (6 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> People running tend to puff and blow a lot more than walkers. From personal observation, some of them don't take the two metre rule too seriously either.


But in order for it to be an issue, one has to be breathing out, exactly as the other one is breathing in, whilst passing at speed ( that’s a bit of an ask ). The simple solution is just to hold your breath until you’re past. In my experience so far, there have only been a handful of times someone has been within 2 meters anyway. The W.H.O. say 3 feet is adequate ( that’s three feet from where your ‘disc’ meets the person, not 3 feet from where your ‘disc’ meets the edge of their ‘disc’) I think this is where the misunderstanding has come in, and caused a whole lot of unnecessary hand wringing. The expert epidemiologists are undecided whether aerosol transmission ( breath droplets ) are the primary transmission vehicle for this virus anyway, they think ( from its observed behaviour) it’s more likely to be primarily touch transmission.


----------



## Blue Hills (6 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If you've not already seen it, I can recommend the film 'Benvenuti al Sud', which deals with that whole north/south situation. It's feckin' hilarious.
> 
> _"Overwhelmed by his wife, a postal worker from Northern Italy feigns disability to request a transfer to Milan. When he's unmasked, he is sent to a tiny village near Naples for two years. He moves there alone, scared and full of the typical prejudice about the south. But he meets lovely people who quickly make him feel at home. Now the challenge is to explain this to his wife, so he chooses to make her believe that his life is hell."_​


Will look out for. Was recommended to me by an italian a while ago if i remember.


----------



## nickyboy (6 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> But almost _all _of the Great British Public _have _decided for themselves, and not created any problems. The parks are full of Brits sunbathing 5-10m apart. Almost everyone is sensible. The infection numbers won't change just because 2 people in London do something a bit stupid - what matters is what 99% of the public do.
> 
> The people in shops and on the tube completely wipe-out any advantage gained by telling those sunbathers to Move Along Now Please. Them and the groups of teenagers I see almost every dry evening … <grumble> ...


I'm not sure that the parks were full of sunbathers last weekend. I only watched the news and they seemed to struggle to find examples

I guess my concern is this....we could easily say "you can go outside for non essential reasons so long as you're sensible about it. If you want to sunbathe that's ok". It doesn't feel like a big step from this to groups of friends getting together and infecting each other. Maybe I'm being overly cautious but I don't think we should change the message on what we should or shouldn't do, at least for now


----------



## snorri (6 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> The parks are full of Brits sunbathing 5-10m apart.


Sunbathing in my locality would be a sure way of overloading the emergency services with victims of hypothermia.


----------



## Rusty Nails (6 Apr 2020)

icowden said:


> Indeed. There are blocks of flats in the centre of leafy Walton (new ones of course). Some of those flats (the more "affordable" ones don't have any walls that open to the exterior. So no windows. If you have a family or just want to stay sane, I think you have to go outdoors somewhere. Communal gardens too communal? Park across the road? Down by the river? All of these expose you to risk, but so does staying in a flat with no windows for 12 weeks.
> 
> It's easy if you have a garden and live in an openish area, but hard if you living somewhere more built up.



Is this true? Are there really flats with no windows? If so that's awful.


----------



## Alberto Balsam (6 Apr 2020)

I must admit, I had to read that twice myself. I can't believe they're allowed to build / create residences like that in this day and age.


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## rogerzilla (6 Apr 2020)

I don't think that's legal. They might open onto a courtyard?


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## srw (6 Apr 2020)

https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/n...ts-no-windows-get-green-light-watford-appeal/

Private Eye covered this in respect of a much larger office to flats conversion. If it's within the scope of a permitted development, then the council can't refuse permission, even if some of the flats breach housing regs.


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## HLaB (6 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> What's wrong with bbqs and Easter eggs?
> 
> Genuine question.


They tend to melt


----------



## rogerzilla (6 Apr 2020)

Modern slums, then. Lovely.


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## matticus (7 Apr 2020)

Of CCOURSE it is cyclists who will bring on the tigher lockdown rules:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/06/friends-crashed-driving-10-miles-walk-dog-12514164/

A group of friends were criticised by police for making an ‘avoidable journey’ after they survived a nasty car crash. Disturbing pictures show the extent of the crash which was caused by a giant bug flying in and distracting the driver, officers in Berkshire said. The Vauxhall Corsa was left badly damaged with the front end completely smashed in and side and rear damage. Thames Valley Police’s road unit tweeted to say the three friends were travelling ‘ten miles from their home’ to walk their dog.


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## lane (7 Apr 2020)

Had a similar thing in the next village to where I live. Police were also removing bottles of alcohol from the vehicle. It is a hot hatch I have often seen driving round here at speed.


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## lane (7 Apr 2020)

France bans jogging in Paris.


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## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Of CCOURSE it is cyclists who will bring on the tigher lockdown rules:
> 
> https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/06/friends-crashed-driving-10-miles-walk-dog-12514164/
> 
> A group of friends were criticised by police for making an ‘avoidable journey’ after they survived a nasty car crash. Disturbing pictures show the extent of the crash which was caused by a giant bug flying in and distracting the driver, officers in Berkshire said. The Vauxhall Corsa was left badly damaged with the front end completely smashed in and side and rear damage. Thames Valley Police’s road unit tweeted to say the three friends were travelling ‘ten miles from their home’ to walk their dog.


Vauxhall Corsa...nuff said


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## lane (7 Apr 2020)

I went out on Sunday night for a ride at 8pm. About a mile from where I live at a T junction I could see blue lights on the road I was joining and stopped even though the police car was on opposite carriageway and I was turning left - just to be safe. Anyway it was really odd the car had blue lights on but was travelling really slowly. I watched it pass me then pulled out but looked back to see what was happening and it did a U turn and started coming in my direction. It then disappeared so I think it must have turned up the road I had come out off. All the while blue lights but travelling very slowly. My wife saw it still in the village a couple of hours later and said it looked like they had told a couple of young people to go home. Think it was just driving round checking if people were not obeying the rules - but all the while I was out for over two hours I don't think I saw more than 3 people.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Vauxhall Corsa...nuff said


Oi! I used to drive a Corsa.


----------



## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oi! I used to drive a Corsa.


You have my sympathies  Was it a tatty underpowered old one in black, beloved of the boy /girl racer yoof and yoofette round here. Seatbelt wearing extremely optional


----------



## matticus (7 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oi! I used to drive a Corsa.


What happened to it??


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> What happened to it??


He grew up & bought an Audi/BMW


----------



## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oi! I used to drive a Corsa.



Till you crashed it...


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> You have my sympathies  Was it a tatty underpowered old one in black, beloved of the boy /girl racer yoof and yoofette round here. Seatbelt wearing extremely optional


It was silver. I it had enough power for me to tootle around. 

I never crashed it. It was the first of the two cars I've ever owned, and I wish I'd kept it.


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> It was silver. I it had enough power for me to tootle around.


I know we are now way off topic but yesterday I went to the vets to pick up some medicine for the cat, I went in the Beetle, when I had it rolling roaded a couple of weeks ago it's peak power was 56bhp. It's a completely different experience, to driving a standard car with over 100bhp which nearly everything has these days.


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## mjr (7 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> France bans jogging in Paris.


Along with all other exercise, but only between 10am and 7pm. https://www.france24.com/en/20200407-paris-bans-daytime-jogging-in-bid-to-slow-spread-of-coronavirus

France's lockdown rules seem to be going from debatable to completely ridiculous. Has there been any attempt to justify this morning-to-evening ban, because I don't see it in the news?

Edit To Add: the official announcement is https://cdn.paris.fr/paris/2020/04/07/d899f45552428ad6043f698043091f15.pdf which says it's "Pour accompagner ce mouvement," "la responsabilité, l’auto-régulation et la discipline collective que les Parisiennes et les Parisiens" ("To accompany the movement" of "responsibility, self-regulation and collective discipline of Parisiennes and Parisiens") although it does seem to imply that the streets have been too busy and people are using exercise as an excuse to go outside. No numbers given, though.

Now why might people have gone outside last weekend? Maybe they'd seen Friday's article from the Paris mayoralty on how pretty the flowers are now!  I wouldn't make up shoot this absurd. Tell people how beautiful things are outside, then punish everyone for some people maybe going to look.


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## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oi! I used to drive a Corsa.


I seem to remember an ad that glorified anti social (understatement) female driving.


----------



## rivers (7 Apr 2020)

I just got in from a lovely ride. Roads fairly quiet on the motor vehicle front. Loads of cyclists out, mostly solo with a fair few family groups (adults with children). No one breaking the rules, and everyone cycling sensibly.


----------



## Banjo (7 Apr 2020)

I'm seeing a lot of people looking a bit unsteady on what look like either new or maybe very little used then stored in the shed type bikes. 
At least some of them will get the cycling bug and carry on once normal life returns but once car traffic returns to normal levels I suspect many bikes will go back in the shed or on eBay.


----------



## rogerzilla (7 Apr 2020)

I got shouted at by an old duffer* yesterday merely for running. I must have been 3 metres from him - he was in the front of a car facing away from me, with the door open and I was running down the middle of a small parking area.

Some people are terrified of the heavy breathing, assuming you are creating a huge wake of virus particles. Like most cyclists, I'm a terrible runner so I breathe very hard.

*not old enough to be my father


----------



## hoopdriver (7 Apr 2020)

I went out shopping today - my first non-cycling outing since the lockdown began. Other than my bike rides I've not left the house at all. Usually we have groceries delivered but we needed stuff this afternoon so I walked to Asda - found a 200 metre long queue to get into the shop, with people standing six feet apart. Fair enough. But once inside it was all willy-nilly. There were arrows on the floor indicating the desired flow-pattern for shoppers to follow to keep separation but absolutely nobody - not shoppers, nor staff - followed it. It was all a jumble, with plenty of people stopping in the middle of the aisles to chat - even saw friends hugging - and kids running about. A total circus . And as I say, the staff was just as careless. It was impossible to shop and keep the desired separation - absolutely impossible - and nobody was doing a thing about it

I've been really careful - going out on my rides at 5am or earlier - and not leaving the house otherwise. I hope I don't catch anything from this outing, but how the authorities can get all excited about a few people sunbathing in a park when this kind of flagrant breaching of the guidelines goes on in supermarkets is beyond me. I certainly won't be going back to Asda again.


----------



## PK99 (7 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I went out shopping today - my first non-cycling outing since the lockdown began. Other than my bike rides I've not left the house at all. Usually we have groceries delivered but we needed stuff this afternoon so I walked to Asda - found a 200 metre long queue to get into the shop, with people standing six feet apart. Fair enough. But once inside it was all willy-nilly. There were arrows on the floor indicating the desired flow-pattern for shoppers to follow to keep separation but absolutely nobody - not shoppers, nor staff - followed it. It was all a jumble, with plenty of people stopping in the middle of the aisles to chat - even saw friends hugging - and kids running about. A total circus . And as I say, the staff was just as careless. It was impossible to shop and keep the desired separation - absolutely impossible - and nobody was doing a thing about it
> 
> I've been really careful - going out on my rides at 5am or earlier - and not leaving the house otherwise. I hope I don't catch anything from this outing, but how the authorities can get all excited about a few people sunbathing in a park when this kind of flagrant breaching of the guidelines goes on in supermarkets is beyond me. I certainly won't be going back to Asda again.



I too went shopping today, my first shopping excursion since 16 March. Now fully recovered and out of quarantine. 

Social distancing etc were impeccably observed in Wimbledon Waitrose, and shop fully stocked.


----------



## lane (7 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> I too went shopping today, my first shopping excursion since 16 March. Now fully recovered and out of quarantine.
> 
> Social distancing etc were impeccably observed in Wimbledon Waitrose, and shop fully stocked.



Well it's already been pointed out that the middle class are having it easier😀


----------



## fossyant (7 Apr 2020)

Saw 3 blokes out on MTBs this morning. Deffo not same family, and not kitted out cyclists, ie blokes in civvies. Resisted the urge to tell them about solo exercising


----------



## fossyant (7 Apr 2020)

My Rockbros bell is ace. Ting. Nice and pleasant, then a thundering trail bike arrives slowly....  Chinese copy of a £50 bell.


----------



## Skibird (7 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> Saw 3 blokes out on MTBs this morning. Deffo not same family, and not kitted out cyclists, ie blokes in civvies. Resisted the urge to tell them about solo exercising


Glad you didn't :-)), they could easily have been housemates, and there are enough people on here making judgments about people they see out, without having any/all the facts.


----------



## fossyant (7 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Glad you didn't :-)), they could easily have been housemates, and there are enough people on here making judgments about people they see out, without having any/all the facts.



Exactly.. mainly good interaction and distancing today. Good use of the bell to warn folk.


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Glad you didn't :-)), they could easily have been housemates, and there are enough people on here making judgments about people they see out, without having any/all the facts.


Went down a bridleway through a wood today, there was about 12-15 teenage lads all stood around together on bikes, non of them riding all talking together with their phones out, I suppose they all could live in the same orphanage together but I very much doubt it.


----------



## Skibird (7 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Went down a bridleway through a wood today, there was about 12-15 teenage lads all stood around together on bikes, non of them riding all talking together with their phones out, I suppose they all could live in the same orphanage together but I very much doubt it.


 It's hardly the same thing though is it? Yes, it seems the lads you saw were ignoring the guidelines, but what I said is true, there are too many people making judgements without any facts.


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Apr 2020)

I'm sure my son doesn't follow guidelines 100 %,he came for a ride with me the other day.A rare thing ! Saw some of his friends and they gave the obligutary finger to each other then fist bumped ! I promptly gelled his hand to his horror 😁 
It's hard for youngsters I think.


----------



## Banjo (7 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I went out shopping today - my first non-cycling outing since the lockdown began. Other than my bike rides I've not left the house at all. Usually we have groceries delivered but we needed stuff this afternoon so I walked to Asda - found a 200 metre long queue to get into the shop, with people standing six feet apart. Fair enough. But once inside it was all willy-nilly. There were arrows on the floor indicating the desired flow-pattern for shoppers to follow to keep separation but absolutely nobody - not shoppers, nor staff - followed it. It was all a jumble, with plenty of people stopping in the middle of the aisles to chat - even saw friends hugging - and kids running about. A total circus . And as I say, the staff was just as careless. It was impossible to shop and keep the desired separation - absolutely impossible - and nobody was doing a thing about it
> 
> I've been really careful - going out on my rides at 5am or earlier - and not leaving the house otherwise. I hope I don't catch anything from this outing, but how the authorities can get all excited about a few people sunbathing in a park when this kind of flagrant breaching of the guidelines goes on in supermarkets is beyond me. I certainly won't be going back to Asda again.



I went to Tescos today . Trying to only shop every 10 or 12 days. Similar experience shop well organized cue system outside cleanser for you r trolley then a one way system round the aisles. 

I politely asked 5 different people to go the correct way around the aisles.

One 25 to 30 year old man spent 5 minutes gobbing off and swearing but eventually turned round when I didn't back off (probably I should have ) 3 others just ignored me and carried on the wrong way one person finally apologised and turned round . I gave up then and just got it done as quick as possible. I really feel sorry for the staff who are trying when customers are so vile and stupid.
One pleasant lady restored my faith in human nature by asking if I was ok after the gobby aggressive one.

I understand people are stressed and not at their best but why why make shopping less safe than it could be?


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> It's hardly the same thing though is it?


As what?


----------



## Skibird (7 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> As what?


As the 3 guys on MTB that fossyant was talking about, that I replied to, *which you commented on*...……...…………..do keep up


----------



## Phaeton (7 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> As the 3 guys on MTB that fossyant was talking about, that I replied to, *which you commented on*...……...…………..do keep up


Again why isn't it, I'm clearly being dim or you're not explaining yourself correctly


----------



## Skibird (7 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Again why isn't it, I'm clearly being dim or you're not explaining yourself correctly


Really? Go back and read his post, my response to it, then your response. There is a massive difference between 3 guys on MTB's, who could have been housemates, than the 12 -15 teenagers you decided was an appropriate comparison!!


----------



## nickyboy (7 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Really? Go back and read his post, my response to it, then your response. There is a massive difference between 3 guys on MTB's, who could have been housemates, than the 12 -15 teenagers you decided was an appropriate comparison!!


Either way I'm calling them out. If I get it wrong and they're housemates or whatever then fair enough, I got it wrong. But every pair of cyclists I've called out who I've subsequently found on Strava were not housemates. So I'm gonna keep calling folk out that are not solo riding and aren't male/female or an obvious family group, it's too important an issue to say nothing


----------



## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Either way I'm calling them out. If I get it wrong and they're housemates or whatever then fair enough, I got it wrong. But every pair of cyclists I've called out who I've subsequently found on Strava were not housemates. So I'm gonna keep calling folk out that are not solo riding and aren't male/female or an obvious family group, it's too important an issue to say nothing


Are there no same sex couples around Glossop?


----------



## Skibird (7 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Either way I'm calling them out. If I get it wrong and they're housemates or whatever then fair enough, I got it wrong. But every pair of cyclists I've called out who I've subsequently found on Strava were not housemates. So I'm gonna keep calling folk out that are not solo riding and aren't male/female or an obvious family group, it's too important an issue to say nothing


You do that if it makes you feel better, I will reserve my judgements until I know otherwise (have facts etc), and try and think the best of people until they prove me wrong.


----------



## Rusty Nails (7 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Well it's already been pointed out that the middle class are having it easier😀



Our local Co-op is well-stocked, no queuing. Same with the Spar. Just a five minute walk so we're not bothering with the supermarkets. You soon get used to not having the choice of 25 different makes of mushy peas.


----------



## Mo1959 (7 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Either way I'm calling them out. If I get it wrong and they're housemates or whatever then fair enough, I got it wrong. But every pair of cyclists I've called out who I've subsequently found on Strava were not housemates. So I'm gonna keep calling folk out that are not solo riding and aren't male/female or an obvious family group, it's too important an issue to say nothing





vickster said:


> Are there no same sex couples around Glossop?


2 same sex couples in my street alone. I doubt they would appreciate someone querying if they should be out together.


----------



## Shearwater Missile (7 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> I went to Tescos today . Trying to only shop every 10 or 12 days. Similar experience shop well organized cue system outside cleanser for you r trolley then a one way system round the aisles.
> 
> I politely asked 5 different people to go the correct way around the aisles.
> 
> ...


Same with my Tesco. The arrows are clearly marked to direction of travel and whilst queuing outside we were politely told of the one way system in store, but........ There were a few going the wrong way, all ages and no I did`nt say anything I just wanted to do my shopping and out asap. It is hard for some people to adopt a new way to shop. The only good thing is that there is more room and no home delivery crews blocking the aisles. So I don`t know when they do that now at our Tesco.


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

Paris bans public daytime exercise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52202700

Strikes me as madness.

So they would rather you exercised during hours of darkness?

Cycled round central london the other day in full open view of police - maintaining more social distance than i could probably manage in the average village.

Much prefer the British approach - and I really believe we can rely on the vast vast majority of folks.


----------



## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Paris bans public daytime exercise.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52202700
> 
> ...


the reasoning was explained clearly on the news as that link. It’s jogging more rather than cycling. 
its not dark at 10am nor 7pm in France now.
to stop joggers coming into contact with people working or going to work or going to shops, ie things that need to be done during the working day, jogging doesn’t have to


----------



## Adam4868 (7 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Paris bans public daytime exercise.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52202700
> 
> ...


I'd guess theres less people tempted to be out on the streets after 10 pm though.Maybe it's better than nothing if you need your exercise fix ?


----------



## vickster (7 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> I'd guess theres less people tempted to be out on the streets after 10 pm though.Maybe it's better than nothing if you need your exercise fix ?


It’s 7pm, you can go out before 10 and after 7 (when it’s plenty light)


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> the reasoning was explained clearly on the news.
> its not dark at 10am nor 7pm in France now


well i was clearly being slightly loose on the daylight thing.
But I still think it madness.
It sounds like a weird reverse curfew.
Giving the OK for nighttime exertions.

And I do worry what it says about the authorities' views of their citizens.

Many many folk in paris of course live in flats.

If there is some issue with folk being in fresh air at over 2 metres apart then authorities need to level with us.

and treat us like adults.

Again, I think the brits have it right, for all sorts of reasons.


----------



## snorri (7 Apr 2020)

From what I read on this thread I'm grateful to have a good neighbour who has done my weekly shopping since this problem has arisen.
The only thing I miss is the opportunity to try out some product that I have not seen before, or purchase some "forbidden fruit" like baklava or halva when either make a surprise visit to the shelves.


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> I'd guess theres less people tempted to be out on the streets after 10 pm though.Maybe it's better than nothing if you need your exercise fix ?


but they might if they block daytime exercise. I know I would - though would be concerned about encountering too many other folk. 

My current exercise with panniers is daytime - and if I see a food shop with little folk around i pop in for some supplies. Most of the time I ride on by.


----------



## nickyboy (7 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Are there no same sex couples around Glossop?


It's not known for its massive gay scene to be honest

But seriously, all non solo riders I've called out that I've been able to find on Strava has been from different households. So I'm gonna keep doing it. If I can shame a few covidiots into stopping being idiots that's a good thing, right?


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (7 Apr 2020)

A town/village doesn't need to have a massive gay scene to have gay residents.

Moving on


----------



## lane (7 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> well i was clearly being slightly loose on the daylight thing.
> But I still think it madness.
> It sounds like a weird reverse curfew.
> Giving the OK for nighttime exertions.
> ...



From what I understand the mechanism for spread of the virus is not fully understood. I don't think anyone can say with certainty you won't catch it at 2m it's just that the probability becomes very low. Probably lower at 3m but most likely not by much. I err on the side of caution and give people as wide a gap as possible it can't hurt.


----------



## tyred (7 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> But seriously, all non solo riders I've called out that I've been able to find on Strava has been from different households. So I'm gonna keep doing it. If I can shame a few covidiots into stopping being idiots that's a good thing, right?



In theory you are right but if they won't listen to authority figures they are unlikely to listen to you and there is always a risk of winding up a dangerous lunatic.


----------



## Banjo (7 Apr 2020)

Just to balance some of the negative stuff I and others have posted I am finding the huge majority of people I encounter are more friendly and supportive of fellow human beings than normal.


----------



## screenman (7 Apr 2020)

Police in Lincoln broke up 3 parties of 15 or more on Sunday, if you think all large social gatherings are for a genuine reason then you live in fairyland. I should add I feel most people are being intelligent.


----------



## lane (7 Apr 2020)

We are never going to get 100% compliance and the government's modelling won't assume it. I am sure the vast majority are following the rules and that is good enough / all you can expect. There are no other rules which achieve 100% compliance.


----------



## Dogtrousers (7 Apr 2020)

I nipped to my local Budgens for some bread. No outrageous behaviour from anyone. 

Except a bloke who stood in front of the bagels for longer than I would like. 

Saw this on Twitter that made me chuckle

View: https://twitter.com/10mhardbacks/status/1247045197059354624?s=19


----------



## nickyboy (7 Apr 2020)

tyred said:


> In theory you are right but if they won't listen to authority figures they are unlikely to listen to you and there is always a risk of winding up a dangerous lunatic.


Well we're in a difficult situation. People riding non solo may lead to tighter restrictions. I can sit on Cyclechat and post about this which achieves nothing or I can get out there and actually try to do something about the situation.


----------



## PaulSB (7 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> Just to balance some of the negative stuff I and others have posted I am finding the huge majority of people I encounter are more friendly and supportive of fellow human beings than normal.


My experience is you are exactly right.

General opinion up here in the wild and wooly north is that failing to observe guidelines/rules/commonsense or whatever is a southern problem.

Lancashire is deserted. There is simply no one out and about. I base this on my experience of riding 13 days from the last 15 and media reporting. I counted 176 cars during a 32 mile ride today. My son who lives in central Manchester reports much the same. Ghost town.

I know people who want to see London completely locked down so those elsewhere who are obeying the directives don't have to endure further restrictions.

No data, no facts just observations from people who are following the guidelines.


----------



## Blue Hills (7 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> General opinion up here in the wild and wooly north is that failing to observe guidelines/rules/commonsense or whatever is a southern problem.



but what do they base that on?

As a northerner in London I see the vast vast majority of folks being perfectly sensible "down" here.

London IS a ghost town. 

I may go round it tomorrow.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2020)

176 cars in 32 miles? Wow I don’t see even a tenth of that during normal times on my rides down south.


----------



## mjr (7 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> the reasoning was explained clearly on the news as that link. It’s jogging more rather than cycling.
> its not dark at 10am nor 7pm in France now.
> to stop joggers coming into contact with people working or going to work or going to shops, ie things that need to be done during the working day, jogging doesn’t have to


Do Parisians not go to work until after 10 am now?

And it's not only jogging banned.

This is the second reason I've seen put forward. Was any evidence shown for this one? It's feeling like Hidalgo's office has lost the plot.


----------



## mjr (7 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Police in Lincoln broke up 3 parties of 15 or more on Sunday, if you think all large social gatherings are for a genuine reason then you live in fairyland. I should add I feel most people are being intelligent.


Did they fine any of the daffodils? I'm hearing a few stories of things being broken up but very few of fines and surely by now people know it's not allowed?


----------



## Banjo (8 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Did they fine any of the daffodils? I'm hearing a few stories of things being broken up but very few of fines and surely by now people know it's not allowed?


The police are stuck between a rock and a hard place. if they clamp down hard now on people breaking the Covid 19 rules how much will they really achieve?

Then for ever after they would be regarded as stormtroopers who trampled all over the poor down trodden population.

World history is in the making here.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Did they fine any of the daffodils? I'm hearing a few stories of things being broken up but very few of fines and surely by now people know it's not allowed?



No fines that I know of, what a sad thought at this time that fines may end up having more effect than the worry of spreading this virus.


----------



## PaulSB (8 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> but what do they base that on?
> 
> As a northerner in London I see the vast vast majority of folks being perfectly sensible "down" here.
> 
> ...


That's good to read. My post is nothing more than how people I know react to what they see for themselves, at home, and then pick up from the media. We've seen reports from Primrose Hill and other places showing people ignoring guidelines. There is a strong feeling this behaviour is going to get us all confined to barracks.

This is simply the impression being gained from the media. I do know Lancashire is deserted as I see it every day from my saddle. This makes folk feel resentful, it's a regular topic of conversation.


----------



## mjr (8 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> The police are stuck between a rock and a hard place. if they clamp down hard now on people breaking the Covid 19 rules how much will they really achieve?


There are options between "clamp down hard" and apparently not punishing almost all offenders. If the police continue not using the law in cases like that, they'll be remembered for not saving lives from these modern-day adult pox parties.

Others write of unfairness if a few misbehaving leads to harsher restrictions on all. What'll be really unfair is if police get more powers when they've not used the ones they've got!


----------



## mjr (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> No fines that I know of, what a sad thought at this time that fines may end up having more effect than the worry of spreading this virus.


To be fair, the official message plays on worry about overloading the NHS, not of directly infecting or killing others. Also, there will always be some more motivated by money than sympathy for anyone.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> Really? Go back and read his post, my response to it, then your response. There is a massive difference between 3 guys on MTB's, who could have been housemates, than the 12 -15 teenagers you decided was an appropriate comparison!!


No you have still lost me, I see no difference between 3 individuals breaking rules to go out on a ride together, to 12-15 youths breaking the rules to meet up in a wood, presumably in the wood as they do not expect to be spotted or moved on.


Shearwater Missile said:


> So I don`t know when they do that now at our Tesco.


I know in our area there is no Click & Collect at any store other than one 20 miles away which is now being organised by the army, I am presuming they are picking before the stock goes out front. But either way we still have not been able to use either service this month despite paying for a weekly delivery upfront.


----------



## Skibird (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> No you have still lost me, I see no difference between 3 individuals breaking rules to go out on a ride together, to 12-15 youths breaking the rules to meet up in a wood, presumably in the wood as they do not expect to be spotted or moved on.
> I know in our area there is no Click & Collect at any store other than one 20 miles away which is now being organised by the army, I am presuming they are picking before the stock goes out front. But either way we still have not been able to use either service this month despite paying for a weekly delivery upfront.


 I said that the 3 MTB riders could have been housemates (not breaking ANY rules), but that you were probably right about the 12-15 youths, if you are still lost, tough, I'm not explaining myself again!!!!!


----------



## matticus (8 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> That's good to read. My post is nothing more than how people I know react to what they see for themselves, at home, and then pick up from the media. We've seen reports from Primrose Hill and other places showing people ignoring guidelines. There is a strong feeling this behaviour is going to get us all confined to barracks.
> 
> This is simply *the impression being gained from the media*. I do know Lancashire is deserted as I see it every day from my saddle. This makes folk feel resentful, it's a regular topic of conversation.


I think it's clear where the problem is here.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> I said that the 3 MTB riders could have been housemates (not breaking ANY rules), but that you were probably right about the 12-15 youths, if you are still lost, tough, I'm not explaining myself again!!!!!


But you haven't explained yourself for the first time *THAT* is the issue, Oh look I know how to bold as well, but heyho there are more important things to worry about


----------



## CanucksTraveller (8 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> That's good to read. My post is nothing more than how people I know react to what they see for themselves, at home, and then pick up from the media. We've seen reports from Primrose Hill and other places showing people ignoring guidelines. There is a strong feeling this behaviour is going to get us all confined to barracks.
> 
> This is simply the impression being gained from the media. I do know Lancashire is deserted as I see it every day from my saddle. This makes folk feel resentful, it's a regular topic of conversation.



Apropos of nothing, but your "view from the North" reminded me of reading a thread on another forum that really amused me yesterday. Some posters from the North were saying that the rules on going out are being observed impeccably up there, and it's only them London types that are the problem. On the very same thread other Northerners were saying the police in their town are nowhere to be seen while gangs of kids roam the land. More than one poster supposed that it was the case all their local police were in that London, probably. 

It's interesting that this blind unthinking "them and us" division persists in times like this.


----------



## BigMeatball (8 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> A town/village doesn't need to have a massive gay scene to have gay residents.
> 
> Moving on



Some old bigots will never understand...


----------



## Dogtrousers (8 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> General opinion up here in the wild and wooly north is that failing to observe guidelines/rules/commonsense or whatever is a southern problem.


This is foolish knee jerk stereotyping, stemming mainly from pre-existing prejudice.

Typical bloody thick Northerners.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Typical bloody thick Northerners.


As a collective we Thank you


----------



## Dogtrousers (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> As a collective we Thank you


The southern cube acknowledges your thanks. You are most welcome.


----------



## screenman (8 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> This is foolish knee jerk stereotyping, stemming mainly from pre-existing prejudice.
> 
> Typical bloody thick Northerners.



On the pet section here a northern guy see's it as being fine to go shopping everyday, I will be interested to hear what people say on that? My opinion is as seldom as possible works best.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> On the pet section here a northern guy see's it as being fine to go shopping everyday, I will be interested to hear what people say on that? My opinion is as seldom as possible works best.


I personally think that it the most dangerous thing you can do currently as far as the virus is concerned, obviously jumping out of an aircraft at 10,000 feet with no parachute is more dangerous,


----------



## mjr (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I personally think that it the most dangerous thing you can do currently as far as the virus is concerned, obviously jumping out of an aircraft at 10,000 feet with no parachute is more dangerous,


Licking some hospital areas on your daily exercise trips may be worse!

I think it depends where you shop. I'm sorry to say it, but the reports of some asda and lidl branches are disgraceful, whereas buying from the farm gates is probably low risk. We are fortunate cycling to be able to reach them relatively easily.


----------



## fossyant (8 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Are there no same sex couples around Glossop?



Usually one of them is a sheep 

PS I live not far away.


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> That's good to read. My post is nothing more than how people I know react to what they see for themselves, at home, and then pick up from the media. We've seen reports from Primrose Hill and other places showing people ignoring guidelines. There is a strong feeling this behaviour is going to get us all confined to barracks.
> 
> This is simply the impression being gained from the media. I do know Lancashire is deserted as I see it every day from my saddle. This makes folk feel resentful, it's a regular topic of conversation.


fair dos to your reply but I think they shouldn't rely on media exaggeration so much. They wouldn't like folk doing it with regard to the north.

One could argue that Londoners need to make more effort to achieve the distancing I think they are achieving - despite the capital's wondrous parks there are a lot of folk who need to use them. And still I see them keeping their distance in them.

I think your companions need to find another topic of conversation to be honest paul

all the best


----------



## nickyboy (8 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> Some old bigots will never understand...


I was gently poking fun at the parochial nature of small market towns such as the one I live in. Don't be so sensitive. It was done for those with a sense of humour and you missed the point completely. And I don't appreciate being labelled a bigot


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I was gently poking fun at the parochial nature of small market towns such as the one I live in. Don't be so sensitive. It was done for those with a sense of humour and you missed the point completely. And I don't appreciate being labelled a bigot


The problem with text/written word there is no intonation available like there is face to face.


----------



## ianrauk (8 Apr 2020)

I saw more cyclists out and about during an hours ride then I have seen for a very long time. Mainly solo roadies, but also utility riders and a few families. All enjoying the nice weather and lack of motor vehicle traffic and all acting very sensibly and distancing themselves. Long may it continue.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I was gently poking fun at the parochial nature of small market towns such as the one I live in. Don't be so sensitive. It was done for those with a sense of humour and you missed the point completely. And I don't appreciate being labelled a bigot


Just so we're 100% I got it 😋


----------



## C R (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> The problem with text/written word there is no intonation available like there is face to face.


Knowing that Hatfield, right next door to Glossop, provided some of the locations for The League of Gentlemen might help to understand @nickyboy's point.

As a disclaimer, I lived in Hollingworth, next door to Hatfield and Glossop, for a while some 15 years ago.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> Knowing that Hatfield, right next door to Glossop, provided some of the locations for The League of Gentlemen might help to understand @nickyboy's point.
> 
> As a disclaimer, I lived in Hollingworth, next door to Hatfield and Glossop, for a while some 15 years ago.


Yeah but you all live the wrong side of the hill so you're a funny lot anyway


----------



## Dogtrousers (8 Apr 2020)

Oooh look, you can report malefactors online. They've got an app for it.








No mention of a reward but, as they say, virtue is its own reward.


----------



## BigMeatball (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> The problem with text/written word there is no intonation available like there is face to face.



No, the problem is people thinking that with the right intonation any topic can be subject of a joke and then just blame others for lacking sense of humour.

But that's the overall problem with society, where idiot, entitled and rich white men not only do they not get punished for inappropriate jokes, but they even become country leaders.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> But that's the overall problem with society, where idiot, entitled and rich white men not only do they not get punished for inappropriate jokes, but they even become country leaders.


Right on Bruvver


----------



## Jody (8 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> well out of range of the derbyshire police drone i assume.



They have moved on to surveying people via the Police plane instead, most nights doing 2 or 3 laps of the village and sometimes back a couple of hours later. You can tell it's the police plane as it flies low and VERY slow.



Skibird said:


> It's hardly the same thing though is it? Yes, it seems the lads you saw were ignoring the guidelines, but what I said is true, there are too many people making judgements without any facts.



A lot of people rely on that attitude to carry on as they were. Same as those who use disabled/ child spaces at a supermarket knowing that almost no one will



Banjo said:


> London IS a ghost town.
> 
> I may go round it tomorrow.



I'd like to have a ride round London at any time. Bet it's awesome to ride round when it's this quiet.



CanucksTraveller said:


> It's interesting that this blind unthinking "them and us" division persists in times like this.



Sadly I don't think that mentality will go for some time yet. The media and old stereotypes just won't go away.



BigMeatball said:


> But that's the overall problem with society, where idiot, entitled and rich white men not only do they not get punished for inappropriate jokes, but they even become country leaders.


----------



## nickyboy (8 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> No, the problem is people thinking that with the right intonation any topic can be subject of a joke and then just blame others for lacking sense of humour.
> 
> But that's the overall problem with society, where idiot, entitled and rich white men not only do they not get punished for inappropriate jokes, but they even become country leaders.


For the avoidance of doubt I'd like to make it clear that I'm not this country's leader. Heck, I'm not even my house's leader


----------



## DaveReading (8 Apr 2020)

Jody said:


> They have moved on to surveying people via the Police plane instead, most nights doing 2 or 3 laps of the village and sometimes back a couple of hours later. You can tell it's the police plane as it flies low and VERY slow.



That's a rare sight nowadays - very few police forces operate planes any more, favouring helicopters instead as they are much more flexible.

Having said that, the survey companies are very busy at the moment taking advantage of the improved air quality, which tends to result in better quality imaging.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2020)

*Mod note:*

OT parachuting posts deleted.


----------



## Phaeton (8 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> *Mod note:*
> 
> OT parachuting posts deleted.


Can you please then send me the link, if that is not against the rules?


----------



## SpokeyDokey (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Can you please then send me the link, if that is not against the rules?



Yes - will pm you.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I personally think that it the most dangerous thing you can do currently as far as the virus is concerned, obviously jumping out of an aircraft at 10,000 feet with no parachute is more dangerous,



Especially with the 2 metre rule as a fellow jumper tries to pass a spare


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> Usually one of them is a sheep
> 
> PS I live not far away.



That comes up under same species relationships.


----------



## Jody (8 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> That's a rare sight nowadays - very few police forces operate planes any more, favouring helicopters instead as they are much more flexible.
> 
> Having said that, the survey companies are very busy at the moment taking advantage of the improved air quality, which tends to result in better quality imaging.



We lost Sheffields helicopter due to funding. We now have a police plane instead. 

https://rothnews.co.uk/2020/03/fixed-wing-aircraft-added-to-south-yorkshire-police-air-coverage/


----------



## RoadRider400 (8 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> A town/village doesn't need to have a massive gay scene to have gay residents.



Exactly. They are just regular village people.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Exactly. They are just regular village people.



Groan...


----------



## glasgowcyclist (8 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> *Mod note:*
> 
> OT parachuting posts deleted.



That was a bit abrupt, couldn’t you have let us down gently?


----------



## Wobbling (8 Apr 2020)

Not to bad up in my area (newcastle) but some very old bikes dusted off and given a run out.
This seems to be causing problems even with the very limited traffic with some very dodgy bike handling due to inexperience and or fatigue due to overestimating fitness.
So if your new or havnt cycled for a while be carefull and head home before you get tired and take some water with you and sip it before you get thirsty.


----------



## pawl (8 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I was gently poking fun at the parochial nature of small market towns such as the one I live in. Don't be so sensitive. It was done for those with a sense of humour and you missed the point completely. And I don't appreciate being labelled a bigot




Then don’t post controversial comments just to wind people up.If you do then you can expect people to respond


----------



## Drago (8 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> I was gently poking fun at the parochial nature of small market towns such as the one I live in. Don't be so sensitive. It was done for those with a sense of humour and you missed the point completely. And I don't appreciate being labelled a bigot


It's not just small market towns getting parochial. Some Welsh folk have got rather het up about people self isolating in second homes. I mean, if they're genuinely self isolating then theres zero chance of contracting or spreading the illness. Conversely, Welsh folk are happy to be Ambo'd to Bristol or Hereford for treatment when they get poleaxed by the virus, so the parochial nature of such whittling has been conveniently one way.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 Apr 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Exactly. They are just regular village people.


Young man! There's no need to feel down


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## nickyboy (8 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> Then don’t post controversial comments just to wind people up.If you do then you can expect people to respond


Hmmm...I'd suggest that calling me a bigot is a tad more controversial. However, as it's a "fun and friendly" CC, I decided to let it pass (not least because if you look at my posting history you can see that being a bigot is a million miles from the truth)


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## Maverick Goose (8 Apr 2020)

RoadRider400 said:


> Exactly. They are just regular village people.


IIRC only one of the Village People was actually gay...


----------



## CanucksTraveller (8 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> That's a rare sight nowadays - very few police forces operate planes any more, favouring helicopters instead as they are much more flexible.


 
Pedant mode on, (apologies), no specific police force operates planes or helicopters, the full fleet falls under the umbrella of the National Police Aviation Service. There are actually 4 fixed wing aircraft, available to many forces. I think the poster that mentioned the fixed wing aircraft is close to Doncaster airport where one is based.


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2020)

Wobbling said:


> Not to bad up in my area (newcastle) but some very old bikes dusted off and given a run out.
> This seems to be causing problems even with the very limited traffic with some very dodgy bike handling due to inexperience and or fatigue due to overestimating fitness.
> So if your new or havnt cycled for a while be carefull and head home before you get tired and take some water with you and sip it before you get thirsty.



There were some top cack riders on the canal last Saturday and I bet many didn't realise they were riding now desirable 1990's MTB's! I could spot them way off because they were wobbling and texting..............


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That was a bit abrupt, couldn’t you have let us down gently?



The posts went into free fall


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## Rusty Nails (8 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> It's not just small market towns getting parochial. Some Welsh folk have got rather het up about people self isolating in second homes. I mean, if they're genuinely self isolating then theres zero chance of contracting or spreading the illness. Conversely, Welsh folk are happy to be Ambo'd to Bristol or Hereford for treatment when they get poleaxed by the virus, so the parochial nature of such whittling has been conveniently one way.



As have people across England and Scotland living in areas popular with second home owners, including Prince Charles. I think people, living near borders, poleaxed by the virus are happy to be Ambo'd, as you quaintly term it, to any hospital near where they live, in either direction. Being 'Ambo'd' would suggest they are seriously ill, and have little choice.


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## I like Skol (8 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> For the avoidance of doubt I'd like to make it clear that I'm not this country's leader. Heck, I'm not even my house's leader


Isn't that what they all say before they run for the position?


Maverick Goose said:


> IIRC only one of the Village People was actually gay...


Did that make him the only gay in the village [people]?


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## Vantage (8 Apr 2020)

I have to say in complete contrast to @PaulSB 's experiences, here in Bolton on the Lancs/Mancs border, social distancing and staying home seems to be unheard of. 
The roads are quieter, but they are still pretty damn busy. Even on my own little street I'm regularly seeing cars and vans coming and going. 
The next door neighbours are having family members visit often (young couple and no health issues that are apparent) as are the couple across the road. 
Lots more walkers in the moors/hills although they seem to be couples and families. 
The 2m thing isn't all that widely used from what I'm seeing. It didn't bother me much at first but as the death toll rises, its bothering me alot now. 
There is a completely unrelated silver lining though...the mutt and I are garden camping tonight


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## lane (8 Apr 2020)

Generally from what I see where I live it is being observed. Many people clearly do get the 2m thing. I went out on my bike yesterday got waves from pedestrians on two occasions for leaving a gap. However was close passed by an idiot cyclist who was out with his mate and on a walk tonight two cyclists riding together chatting. No doubt someone will come along and say family members but really they weren't. Still it's being observed to the point it's probably sufficient for the purpose.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Apr 2020)

Article on Medium about spacing required when cycling and jogging. Suggests that safe distance is more than 2m in slipstream. 


View: https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08


As ever keep your critical faculties active when reading. It cites a Dutch website and a non peer reviewed white paper. So it could be all or partly bollocks. Or maybe it isn't.


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## mjr (9 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Still it's being observed to the point it's probably sufficient for the purpose.


The purpose of slowing infection, not stopping them. The government is probably doubly happy to have some idiots risking infection: first, it sacrifices some more plebs to their goal of herd immunity; and second, it builds support of well meaning sadists for tighter lockdown if government wants to distract from its failures. It's got very little to do with whether anyone cycles and I doubt Boris is really in favour of collective punishment, all else being equal.


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## mjr (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Article on Medium about spacing required when cycling and jogging. Suggests that safe distance is more than 2m in slipstream.


Belgian health ministry advised 5m gap behind. I hope they followed some evidence to arrive at that.


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## lane (9 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Belgian health ministry advised 5m gap behind. I hope they followed some evidence to arrive at that.



Yes I saw this - the speed you are traveling means you arrive in the air of the person in front more quickly makes sense. The faster you go the bigger gap you need. If someone passed you and pulls in front it's a problem though.


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## rogerzilla (9 Apr 2020)

I would have thought far more than 5m, given how long road spray from cars remains in the air.

We'll mostly all get it in the end, asymptomatically or not, unless there is a vaccine. It's about slowing it down, not about totally eliminating the risk.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Yes I saw this - the speed you are traveling means you arrive in the air of the person in front more quickly makes sense. The faster you go the bigger gap you need. If someone passed you and pulls in front it's a problem though.


Yes it works in a "common sense" kind of way but that's not evidence. And as we know common sense can lead to erroneous conclusions. The article I linked above does describe some actual studies but I don't think they are peer reviewed.

Still, given the need to make decisions quickly I'm not going to criticise the Belgians for erring on the side of caution.


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## lane (9 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> I would have thought far more than 5m, given how long road spray from cars remains in the air.
> 
> We'll mostly all get it in the end, asymptomatically or not, unless there is a vaccine. It's about slowing it down, not about totally eliminating the risk.



Cycling weekly quoted 7.5m at some reasonable speed. 

Even if 80% of the population do get it in the end (doubtful) on an individual level it's still worth trying to be in the 20% especially if you have any risk factors.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Cycling weekly quoted 7.5m at some reasonable speed.
> 
> Even if 80% of the population do get it in the end (doubtful) on an individual level it's still worth trying to be in the 20% especially if you have any risk factors.


And bearing in mind that there are reports (from S Korea and not confirmed so pinch of salt required) that you can get it twice - knocking the herd immunity theory on the head.


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## matticus (9 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> ...
> We'll mostly all get it in the end, asymptomatically or not, unless there is a vaccine. It's about slowing it down, not about totally eliminating the risk.


Yes. (and thus the 90:10 rule applies here).

Do people think it's possible to _eliminate _spread? Has that been achieved in the countries with super-tight lockdowns, police on the streets etc?


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## Rusty Nails (9 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> *The purpose of slowing infections not stopping them*. The government is probably doubly happy to have some idiots risking infection: first, it sacrifices some more plebs to their goal of herd immunity; and second, it builds support of well meaning sadists for tighter lockdown if government wants to distract from its failures. It's got very little to do with whether anyone cycles and I doubt Boris is really in favour of collective punishment, all else being equal.



That is all this lockdown was ever going, or meant, to do. Despite the shouts of condemnation aimed at people who breach the guidelines, it appears to me as if the vast majority of people still adhere to them.

The only type of lockdown that would stop the infections would be so severe that it would not be accepted in this country, or any other regime that governs by consensus, and would be impossible to enforce without the military on the streets. I accept that this situation is a price we pay for our relatively free society, with all its admitted faults.

By all means justly criticise those who flout the guidelines but the reality is that there are always people who believe the laws/rules/guidelines do not apply to them. Forbidding and criminalizing theft and violence has not stopped them so it will not stop some people meeting in groups or walking too close to others.


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## lane (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Yes it works in a "common sense" kind of way but that's not evidence. And as we know common sense can lead to erroneous conclusions. The article I linked above does describe some actual studies but I don't think they are peer reviewed.
> 
> Still, given the need to make decisions quickly I'm not going to criticise the Belgians for erring on the side of caution.



It's not exactly scientific because not enough is known about exactly how the virus spreads. But depending how cautious you are and how much at risk you think you are it's probably good advice.


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## Randomnerd (9 Apr 2020)

I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown. When the world is busy, your average cat burglar is out and about, shinning up drainpipes and prying open French doors and so on, with Joskins waiting in the robbed motor.
Are they having a little “me” time? Have they hung up their jemmy bars for the duration? Or are they elsewhere? Any of our banged-up, kleptomaniac or drug-dependent brethren elucidate?


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## matticus (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown. When the world is busy, your average cat burglar is out and about, shinning up drainpipes and prying open French doors and so on, with Joskins waiting in the robbed motor.
> Are they having a little “me” time? Have they hung up their jemmy bars for the duration? Or are they elsewhere? Any of our banged-up, kleptomaniac or drug-dependent brethren elucidate?


As long as they're not riding in groups, we don't care!


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## CanucksTraveller (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown.



It's an interesting question isn't it, there have always been quite a lot of burglaries on my estate (it's the prevalent crime stat around here). Rich pickings, everyone out at work all day. Every year they get markedly worse in the winter when it's dark by 4 and people aren't home until a couple of hours later. It's very much burglars' season. 
Now with almost everyone at home, more people out walking, more hours of broad daylight, and police very obviously actually patrolling for a change (rather than bazzing from job to job on blue lights).. it must be hard for the scumbags, I too wonder what they do for weed money now there's a shortage of unoccupied houses and the associated free Toshibas and Nintendo consoles.


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## srw (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> reports


Report singular as far as I know


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## Milkfloat (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown. When the world is busy, your average cat burglar is out and about, shinning up drainpipes and prying open French doors and so on, with Joskins waiting in the robbed motor.
> Are they having a little “me” time? Have they hung up their jemmy bars for the duration? Or are they elsewhere? Any of our banged-up, kleptomaniac or drug-dependent brethren elucidate?


I am half expecting to go back to my office block to find that all the businesses have been burgled. I think that commercial premises that shut down are at a big risk.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown. When the world is busy, your average cat burglar is out and about, shinning up drainpipes and prying open French doors and so on, with Joskins waiting in the robbed motor.
> Are they having a little “me” time? Have they hung up their jemmy bars for the duration? Or are they elsewhere? Any of our banged-up, kleptomaniac or drug-dependent brethren elucidate?


I saw a discussion of this on Twitter. There were suggestions that you should gather together some stuff that you don't really want and put it in a bag marked SWAG outside your front (or maybe back) door, to help them through these hard times after all, We Are All In This Together.


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## Adam4868 (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I’ve been wondering this morning what criminals are up to during the lockdown. When the world is busy, your average cat burglar is out and about, shinning up drainpipes and prying open French doors and so on, with Joskins waiting in the robbed motor.
> Are they having a little “me” time? Have they hung up their jemmy bars for the duration? Or are they elsewhere? Any of our banged-up, kleptomaniac or drug-dependent brethren elucidate?


Universal credit.


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## Dogtrousers (9 Apr 2020)

I see Northants police want to search shopping trolleys to make sure that people aren't picking up inessential things in their shopping.

_ We will not, at this stage, start [...] checking the items in baskets and trolleys to see whether it’s a legitimate, necessary item._​_But again, be under no illusion, if people do not heed the warnings and the pleas I’m making today, we will start to do that. _link​
Just in case you're unclear on what he meant by "checking items to see whether it's a legitimate necessary item" Chief Constable Nick Adderley clarified things on Twitter

_ I have been clear that we will not be judge and jury on what is an essential item or not _link​
Ah right, that's perfectly clear. Crystal.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I see Northants police want to search shopping trolleys to make sure that people aren't picking up inessential things in their shopping.
> 
> _ We will not, at this stage, start [...] checking the items in baskets and trolleys to see whether it’s a legitimate, necessary item._​_But again, be under no illusion, if people do not heed the warnings and the pleas I’m making today, we will start to do that. _link​
> Just in case you're unclear on what he meant by "checking items to see whether it's a legitimate necessary item" Chief Constable Nick Adderley clarified things on Twitter
> ...



Was that posted on 1st April? I could arrest the police for wasting my time...


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

Just seen the latest Public Information broadcast on the BBC.

There's no longer any explicit reference to exercise as an excuse for leaving the house, only a mention of "food, health reasons or work", although one could argue that health encompasses exercise.

Interesting change of emphasis, nevertheless.


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## Adam4868 (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I see Northants police want to search shopping trolleys to make sure that people aren't picking up inessential things in their shopping.
> 
> _ We will not, at this stage, start [...] checking the items in baskets and trolleys to see whether it’s a legitimate, necessary item._​_But again, be under no illusion, if people do not heed the warnings and the pleas I’m making today, we will start to do that. _link​
> Just in case you're unclear on what he meant by "checking items to see whether it's a legitimate necessary item" Chief Constable Nick Adderley clarified things on Twitter
> ...


Lol...like to they really have the manpower for it anyway.
I can just see it "excuse me sir can I check your bag/basket,right you can keep the beans,pasta,apples but your gonna have to put the beer and Pringles back sorry'
That's me fecked.


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## I like Skol (9 Apr 2020)

I think they are suggesting that if you walk out of the supermarket with just a selection of tasteful scatter cushions from the homewares department then you may have some explaining to do!


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## roubaixtuesday (9 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I see Northants police want to search shopping trolleys to make sure that people aren't picking up inessential things in their shopping.
> 
> _ We will not, at this stage, start [...] checking the items in baskets and trolleys to see whether it’s a legitimate, necessary item._​_But again, be under no illusion, if people do not heed the warnings and the pleas I’m making today, we will start to do that. _link​
> Just in case you're unclear on what he meant by "checking items to see whether it's a legitimate necessary item" Chief Constable Nick Adderley clarified things on Twitter
> ...



First Derbyshire harassing dog walkers now Northants harassing shoppers.

They're on a proper power trip. 

Just shows how vital it is not to give these individuals any more power than is absolutely necessary - they're just itching to abuse it.


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## Rusty Nails (9 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> First Derbyshire harassing dog walkers now Northants harassing shoppers.
> 
> They're on a proper power trip.
> 
> Just shows how vital it is not to give these individuals any more power than is absolutely necessary - they're just itching to abuse it.



It's one thing for police to enforce the rules, but it is a step too far when power-crazed idiots like this start making them up as well.

Why isn't Priti coming out from hiding and setting them straight? Or is she happy with this approach?


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## glasgowcyclist (9 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Why isn't Priti coming out from hiding and setting them straight? Or is she happy with this approach?



I think she's keeping out of it until she can figure out a way to deport the virus.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 Apr 2020)

Ok so, no change in restrictions as yet (based on the NI legislation) Although Michelle O'Neill has suggested exercising close to home, definitely shouldn't be driving to places/beauty spots.

The PSNI chief however has said that patrols and checkpoints will step up from tomorrow, drivers must have an acceptable reason for journey and if advised to go home but don't, will be receiving FPN's.


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## Adam4868 (9 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I think they are suggesting that if you walk out of the supermarket with just a selection of tasteful scatter cushions from the homewares department then you may have some explaining to do!


In other words it's bollox.


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## Adam4868 (9 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> It's one thing for police to enforce the rules, but it is a step too far when power-crazed idiots like this start making them up as well.
> 
> Why isn't Priti coming out from hiding and setting them straight? Or is she happy with this approach?


I much prefer her in hiding.


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## PK99 (9 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Top half of box hill zig zag road is a "Private Road" road owned by the National Trust. It is not a public right of way and can be closed to any or all forms of traffic at any time




....and is closed over the Easter weekend..

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...ekend-to-prevent-spread-of-coronavirus-453919


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## vickster (9 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> ....and is closed over the Easter weekend..
> 
> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...ekend-to-prevent-spread-of-coronavirus-453919


Good, very sensible


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## Banjo (9 Apr 2020)

When your doing your grocery shop If other stuff s on the shelves available then its ridiculous not to buy it if you want it . Going in just to buy non essentials is not helpful but if your in there anyway??


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## rogerzilla (9 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Universal credit.


Surely, as self-employed, they can get a grant for 80% of the last fiscal year's loot?


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## Adam4868 (9 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Surely, as self-employed, they can get a grant for 80% of the last fiscal year's loot?


I'd hazard a guess that they might be late with their books ?


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## rogerzilla (9 Apr 2020)

Need to remember to offset all job-related expenses against tax: striped top, mask, "SWAG" bag, brick, jemmy.


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## fossyant (9 Apr 2020)

People are getting it. Wide passes on my off road routes. Use of the bell when approaching from behind, from sufficient distance not to startle, and by the time they have 'thought about it' I'm getting near. One iped that didn't hear me ding, nor ask to get past until I said it quite loudly.


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## rogerzilla (9 Apr 2020)

I might do the local singletrack tomorrow. It's very narrow but is emphatically one-way, so should be fine.


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## Phaeton (9 Apr 2020)

fossyant said:


> People are getting it. Wide passes on my off road routes. Use of the bell when approaching from behind, from sufficient distance not to startle, and by the time they have 'thought about it' I'm getting near. One iped that didn't hear me ding, nor ask to get past until I said it quite loudly.


But if there are 2 of them, why do they bother go in opposite sides of the road/track, why not both to the same side!


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Vantage said:


> I have to say in complete contrast to @PaulSB 's experiences, here in Bolton on the Lancs/Mancs border, social distancing and staying home seems to be unheard of.
> The roads are quieter, but they are still pretty damn busy. Even on my own little street I'm regularly seeing cars and vans coming and going.
> The next door neighbours are having family members visit often (young couple and no health issues that are apparent) as are the couple across the road.
> Lots more walkers in the moors/hills although they seem to be couples and families.
> ...



The COVID tracker reflects your experience.


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## screenman (9 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> It's one thing for police to enforce the rules, but it is a step too far when power-crazed idiots like this start making them up as well.
> 
> Why isn't Priti coming out from hiding and setting them straight? Or is she happy with this approach?



I think it might have been Derbyshire that broke up over 600 parties last week, so they are doing plenty right.


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## vickster (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I think it might have been Derbyshire that broke up over 600 parties last week, so they are doing plenty right.


Greater Manchester i think


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## Vantage (9 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> The COVID tracker reflects your experience.
> 
> View attachment 513767



Doesn't surprise me. This town is full of peanuts.


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## Randomnerd (9 Apr 2020)

Does the tracker map allow for population density? If not, I don’t see how you can infer people in the lighter coloured areas are somehow better citizens. There are just fewer of them, surely? Aren’t 67.87% of statistics pure nonsense?


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## wajc (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Just seen the latest Public Information broadcast on the BBC.
> 
> There's no longer any explicit reference to exercise as an excuse for leaving the house, only a mention of "food, health reasons or work", although one could argue that health encompasses exercise.
> 
> Interesting change of emphasis, nevertheless.



For the definitive advice on what you are allowed to do I'd refer only to the government website

UK Government Covid 19 - What you need to do

Everything else you read or hear, even on somewhere like the BBC website is not necessarily in line with the official advice and guidance. It doesn't help though when people like Michael Gove give their unofficial views on the length of time one should exercise also.



> Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove said on Sunday 29 March, 'I would have thought for most people a walk of up to an hour, a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate.'



The whole statement is rather woolly 'I would have thought' , 'most' arn't explicit terms. Unfortunately this sort of thing gets picked up by the media and elsewhere and then they try and tell us that this is the rule - when it isn't


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## Rusty Nails (9 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I think it might have been Derbyshire that broke up over 600 parties last week, so they are doing plenty right.



Good. That's their job (and Greater Manchester's), not making things up to do.


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

wajc said:


> For the definitive advice on what you are allowed to do I'd refer only to the government website
> 
> UK Government Covid 19 - What you need to do



No, that's not definitive and in some cases contradicts the legislation (which determines what you can be prosecuted for).


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## wajc (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> No, that's not definitive and in some cases contradicts the legislation (which determines what you can be prosecuted for).



Where is the definitive ?


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

wajc said:


> Where is the definitive ?



If you are prosecuted or issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice, it will be because you have contravened these:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made/data.pdf

Note that, in the context of exercise being a reasonable excuse for leaving your residence, the Regulations don't place any restriction on how often, how long or how far.


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## wajc (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> If you are prosecuted or issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice, it will be because you have contravened these:
> 
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made/data.pdf
> 
> Note that, in the context of exercise being a reasonable excuse for leaving your residence, the Regulations don't place any restriction on how often, how long or how far.



The legislation has been introduced to allow for the legal enforcement of the government guidance - so I think we're in agreement that the government websites are the only places to get the official an up to date instructions on what you can and can't do - and not the media or anywhere else which was my point earlier.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do


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## lane (9 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> If you are prosecuted or issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice, it will be because you have contravened these:
> 
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made/data.pdf
> 
> Note that, in the context of exercise being a reasonable excuse for leaving your residence, the Regulations don't place any restriction on how often, how long or how far.



I am not a legal expert. But they state a reasonable excuse the NEED to take exercise so it might be argued if you go out more than once against the guidelines provided you did not have a NEED to take further exercise. Derbyshire today issuing notices where drivers have driven an excessive distance to exercise. Anyway I am perfectly happy to follow the guidelines as closely as possible it is the right thing to do.


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## DaveReading (9 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> I am not a legal expert. But they state a reasonable excuse the NEED to take exercise so it might be argued if you go out more than once against the guidelines provided you did not have a NEED to take further exercise. Derbyshire today issuing notices where drivers have driven an excessive distance to exercise. Anyway I am perfectly happy to follow the guidelines as closely as possible it is the right thing to do.



I don't have any problem following a guideline that says I shouldn't drive anywhere to exercise.

But if I choose to cycle in the morning and go for a walk with the wife in the afternoon, both from home, then I'd suggest that isn't against either the letter or the spirit of the Regulations (whatever the guidelines might say).

Bear in mind also that a FPN isn't a conviction, or even an acknowledgement by you of your guilt - it's just a voluntary payment to avoid the hassle, in the unlikely event of being summoned to court, of having to argue that you haven't actually broken any law.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> Does the tracker map allow for population density? If not, I don’t see how you can infer people in the lighter coloured areas are somehow better citizens. There are just fewer of them, surely? Aren’t 67.87% of statistics pure nonsense?



It’s designed by experts including data scientists, of course it allows for population density.


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## Randomnerd (9 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s designed by experts including data scientists, of course it allows for population density.


Calm down. Only asking


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## Randomnerd (9 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s designed by experts including data scientists, of course it allows for population density.


Just had a look at the app website. Appears the data is for participants under 60. The percentage shown is of participants, not of the population, and is an estimate. My assertion stands that stats are meaningless, particularly in relation to how good or otherwise our citizens might be.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> Just had a look at the app website. Appears the data is for participants under 60. The percentage shown is of participants, not of the population, and is an estimate. My assertion stands that stats are meaningless, particularly in relation to how good or otherwise our citizens might be.



Erm well of course it is, it’s called sampling and is part of statistics. How on earth could it be answers from the whole UK population? The sample sizes are statistically valid in calculating the infection rates in the different areas.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> Calm down. Only asking



Calm down calm down. (You’re not Scouse are you?)


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## iandg (10 Apr 2020)

Maybe not just groups now? Maybe we need to think about how far or how much time we spend on the bike? Clear message from Professor Leitch (National Clinical Director) at today's First Minister brief (Scotland) - Exercise is Exercise. Not Recreation. Not your hobby. Do not go mountain biking. Keep it to 30-60 minutes from your door to stay healthy.


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## lane (10 Apr 2020)

On local Facebook group someone reports someone to police for driving to village and doing 4 hour walk. Don't know outcome but police here don't like people driving far to exercise and have given penalty notices very local to me.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Apr 2020)

The usual routes in NI have checkpoints with fines being handed out. (Driving)

We are going to fluck this up this weekend and get outdoor activity banned


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## hoopdriver (10 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Maybe not just groups now? Maybe we need to think about how far or how much time we spend on the bike? Clear message from Professor Leitch (National Clinical Director) at today's First Minister brief (Scotland) - Exercise is Exercise. Not Recreation. Not your hobby. Do not go mountain biking. Keep it to 30-60 minutes from your door to stay healthy.


Yes, and for Gods sake don’t enjoy it. 
The guy’s opinion, however lofty his title, are just opinions, nothing more, and not law.


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## Domus (10 Apr 2020)

Did my couch to 5 K this morning at 08.30 Couple of dog walkers thats all.
Do another early Sunday then bike on Tuesday. Staying in for the weekend.


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## iandg (10 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Yes, and for Gods sake don’t enjoy it.
> The guy’s opinion, however lofty his title, are just opinions, nothing more, and not law.



Not law, but having said it the would the police now consider it unnecessary travel if they stopped a cyclist who was 50 miles from home?


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## lane (10 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Not law, but having said it the would the police now consider it unnecessary travel if they stopped a cyclist who was 50 miles from home?



Round here they would if you travel 50 miles by car to exercise so I don't really know. Possible.


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## hoopdriver (10 Apr 2020)

whatever happened to legislation? Is law now just an ad hoc series of whims, ideas, postulations uttered by the high and mighty and then enforced by Jumped-up badge flashers?


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## JPBoothy (10 Apr 2020)

I find an early morning or, a late evening ride to be a good time as there are fewer people and therefore you are less likely to draw attention from the Police.. Yes enjoy it but, I think racing against a mate, or some hard core downhill mountain biking that could end up requiring the services of the 'already stretched' NHS should be avoided at this time though. IMO of course


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## CanucksTraveller (10 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Not law, but having said it the would the police now consider it unnecessary travel if they stopped a cyclist who was 50 miles from home?



I think you'll struggle to find a police officer in the country who would have the time or inclination to be stopping any cyclist, walker or jogger. You're allowed to exercise, full stop. They're busy enough right now breaking up social gatherings, gangs of kids etc. If they ever get that under control they can move on to pulling over all these dicks that are thrunging around on their motorbikes like it's TT week. 
Believe me, there is plenty for dibble to be getting on with before they will start bothering people who are clearly exercising. (Occasional deluded Senior Officer notwithstanding).


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## matticus (10 Apr 2020)

The only law that cyclists observe, is that every 10th social media post *must *be doom-mongering about a a French-style lockdown.


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## srw (10 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Is law now just an ad hoc series of whims, ideas, postulations uttered by the high and mighty and then enforced by Jumped-up badge flashers?



No. HTH


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## Dogtrousers (10 Apr 2020)

I see the chief constable of Northampton "clarified" his his threat that police would be inspecting items in shopping baskets in order to determine whether they were essential. It was, he says "clumsy wording". And then goes on to simply deny that he ever said it.

_ "The confusion in the clip this morning, what I was trying to refer to, was we may get to a stage where the purpose of somebody's journey may be questioned by an officer - not searching trolleys and baskets_
There was absolutely no confusion. He was very clear in what he said. He got it wrong. He should just own up and admit that he was wrong.

_"If that confusion has existed, please let me clarify, we are not in that business - I've said that from day one."_
If you're in a hole, stop digging. Just lying about what you said isn't going to help anyone.

Linky https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/health/shoppers-could-face-trolley-searches-18068836


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## Banjo (10 Apr 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

Common sense seems to be re emerging.


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## glasgowcyclist (10 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Jumped-up badge flashers?



I think the majority of cops are doing a fine job but the behaviour of a zealous few can still damage police/public relations.

In the video below, a police officer (South Yorkshire?) told a man that he and his family were not allowed out in their own garden.


View: https://twitter.com/Phillip_Thomaz/status/1248490056685203457?s=19


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## Shearwater Missile (10 Apr 2020)

I feel guilty about being 10 miles from home, if that in fact. My ride is usually 21-24 miles and I work at it, always have so deem in exercise. If I see wildlife then that is an added bonus and if I stop for eggs another bonus. So for about 75-80 mins I am out, I would hate that to stop. I ride from home incidentally. I abide with all the other lockdown restrictions. Funny, last night our neighbours had guests round for drinks in the garden with a young child in tow as well. If they want to have a go at anyone have a go at them, not people exercising or shopping. I do have sympathy with the Police, it must me difficult for them. They will be damned if they do and they will be damned if they don`t.


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## hoopdriver (10 Apr 2020)

I go for similar distances. So far the Sussex police seem to be quite sensible and low key and in my outings virtually everybody I see is obviously trying to follow the guidelines. As am I.

I agree that the police are in new territory, as are we all. But some of these police forces are way, way out of line - well beyond any well-intentioned, sensible interpretation of the guidelines. Making up laws as they go. And there simply is no excuse for it


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2020)

My wife and I were out cycling when we passed a slower woman rider. We passed on far side of lane. About 400 metres further up my wife asks me to speed up. The woman has speeded up and is trying to catch and draft my wife. WTF? Now is not the time to get the fever just because someone has overtaken you and is faster.


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> but police here don't like people driving far to exercise and have given penalty notices very local to me.



I'm inclined to agree with the police in this instance. I don't see why people really need to drive _anywhere_ first in order to get some exercise. Surely the whole point of it is that you have to put in a bit of physical effort - and unless you own an old vintage vehicle with no power assisted anything, you are definitely not going to get any sort of physical workout from driving a car!



JPBoothy said:


> I find an early morning or, a late evening ride to be a good time as there are fewer people and therefore you are less likely to draw attention from the Police.. Yes enjoy it but, I think racing against a mate, or some hard core downhill mountain biking that could end up requiring the services of the 'already stretched' NHS should be avoided at this time though. IMO of course



It's just a matter of behaving in a sensible manner and not like an idiot. I go out whenever I want as often as I want and I get zero hassle from PC Plod. Already been out this morning and done 30 miles, some on road some gravel. When I've had my tea, I'm going to go out again for another hour before it gets dark and do 10 or 11 more miles of relaxed pootling.


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## wajc (10 Apr 2020)

I've been out today for a bike ride - usually I'm putting a bit of effort in but today I was taking things nice and steady. I was happy in my own little world when I became aware of a 'whoosh whoosh' sound from behind me - the unmistakeable sound of deep section wheels.

I looked back just as a fellow cyclst was beginning to pass me nice and wide.

Normally I'd say hi and jump on their back wheel if they are OK with it - if I can I'll return the favour by moving to the front and sharing the work. Today I just said hi.



YukonBoy said:


> Now is not the time to get the fever just because someone has overtaken you and is faster.




Absolutely - now is the time to swallow your pride and let them go


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Not law, but having said it the would the police now consider it unnecessary travel if they stopped a cyclist who was 50 miles from home?



As long as you are not found in the inessential items aisle of a supermarket I’m sure you’d be fine.


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## Gunk (10 Apr 2020)

Four bellends just rode past my house all clad in full sponsorship Lycra chatting loudly. Shame as we rode about 20 miles today and all the cyclists we passed were riding solo.

Some think the rules don’t apply to them.


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## lane (10 Apr 2020)

Chief Nursing Officer criticises cyclists "hording" together on Westminster Bridge at today's Government press conference.


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## Slick (10 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Chief Nursing Officer criticises cyclists "hording" together on Westminster Bridge at today's Government press conference.


Heard that, hoardes of them rather than grouping together was actually what I thought she meant. Either way, funny how she mentions their mode of transport.


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## iandg (10 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> As long as you are not found in the inessential items aisle of a supermarket I’m sure you’d be fine.



I was only buying lube officer


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## lane (10 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Heard that, hoardes of them rather than grouping together was actually what I thought she meant. Either way, funny how she mentions their mode of transport.



I didn't hear it read it on BBC website so your first hand interpretation is probably more accurate.


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## DaveReading (10 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> whatever happened to legislation? Is law now just an ad hoc series of whims, ideas, postulations uttered by the high and mighty and then enforced by Jumped-up badge flashers?



It's hard to avoid the conclusion that a significant proportion of the fixed penalties imposed to date by the police would be overturned if they ever came to court.


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## HMS_Dave (10 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> I was only buying lube officer



Needs must i suppose... 


👉👌🥴


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Apr 2020)

Out collecting essentials today, drove past 3 different pairs of riders - both being blokes.


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## rivers (10 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Out collecting essentials today, drove past 3 different pairs of riders - both being blokes.


I was out with my wife today. We're both female.


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## pawl (10 Apr 2020)

Slick said:


> Heard that, hoardes of them rather than grouping together was actually what I thought she meant. Either way, funny how she mentions their mode of transport.




I wonder if some were nurses or other NHS staff .Or others providing essential services.


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## matticus (10 Apr 2020)

rivers said:


> I was out with my wife today. We're both female.


Probably best for one of you dress manly in the current climate. (Sadly).


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## Slick (10 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I wonder if some were nurses or other NHS staff .Or others providing essential services.


There certainly could have been as for some reason all she seemed to see were cyclists. I hope she doesn't use the same train of thought in her professional life.


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## hoopdriver (10 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> It's hard to avoid the conclusion that a significant proportion of the fixed penalties imposed to date by the police would be overturned if they ever came to court.


They’d have to be. Courts have to rule on matters of law, not an officers whim, hunch, or misinformed interpretation of guidelines.


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## HMS_Dave (10 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Chief Nursing Officer criticises cyclists "hording" together on Westminster Bridge at today's Government press conference.


Im not saying either is right, but i'd much rather be on Westminster Bridge on a bicycle than one of packed Tube Trains with my face buried into another armpit. 💪🤢


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Apr 2020)

rivers said:


> I was out with my wife today. We're both female.


Please don't infer anything negative from my post  It was merely an observation referring to posts made a few pages back


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## Rupie (10 Apr 2020)

A friend of mine lives near Box hill, which as we know is closed. I looked on Strava and because I am as bored as hell at the moment looked at who went past there today in a random segment. Out of the top 25 fastest people their individual rides averages at about 47miles each. One bloke had done 106miles today and another 75m there were quite a few in the 20's and 30's but still enough high distances to push up the average.


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## Banjo (10 Apr 2020)

I have had some quite serious discussions with people in supermarkets not complying with the simple measures put in place ,I thought the last one was going to turn violent after I merely politely asked him to follow the one way arrows. 
Glancing at the shelves for a suitable defence weapon all I could see was cucumbers which probably wouldn't have helped much.

Cycling is my big stress reliever so I don't call out anyone for anything when out on the bike, Im not letting anything spoil the highlight of my day.


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## Rupie (10 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> I have had some quite serious discussions with people in supermarkets not complying with the simple measures put in place ,I thought the last one was going to turn violent after I merely politely asked him to follow the one way arrows.
> Glancing at the shelves for a suitable defence weapon all I could see was cucumbers which probably wouldn't have helped much.
> 
> Cycling is my big stress reliever so I don't call out anyone for anything when out on the bike, I'm not letting anything spoil the highlight of my day.


I cant do a supermarket in one go, following the arrows, one direction. I have to have the freedom to go back to places I have passed. Sorry, its nothing personal, I've tried and to doesn't work for me.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2020)

Rupie said:


> I cant do a supermarket in one go, following the arrows, one direction. I have to have the freedom to go back to places I have passed. Sorry, its nothing personal, I've tried and to doesn't work for me.



You can exit the supermarket and rejoin the back of the queues. Please don’t flout the rules and put lives at risk.


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## ozboz (10 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> I have had some quite serious discussions with people in supermarkets not complying with the simple measures put in place ,I thought the last one was going to turn violent after I merely politely asked him to follow the one way arrows.
> Glancing at the shelves for a suitable defence weapon all I could see was cucumbers which probably wouldn't have helped much.
> 
> Cycling is my big stress reliever so I don't call out anyone for anything when out on the bike, Im not letting anything spoil the highlight of my day.


I have to disagree about the cucumber ,as a purely self defensive manoeuvre , held in hand and the rounded end thrust into the assailants eye socket would have quite an impact , or both eyes if you are quick enough ,


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## DaveReading (10 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> I have had some quite serious discussions with people in supermarkets not complying with the simple measures put in place ,I thought the last one was going to turn violent after I merely politely asked him to follow the one way arrows.



The logic behind the one-way arrows in supermarkets is that everyone will follow them at the same speed, i.e. that nobody will at any point need to overtake anyone else. That seems fairly unrealistic, given that not everyone stops at the same shelves.

But if you're going to be overtaken by someone, it's arguably worse than being passed by that person going in the opposite direction.


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## Rupie (10 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You can exit the supermarket and rejoin the back of the queues. Please don’t flout the rules and put lives at risk.


No, I will just go to a different one. Just relax, I was being light hearted.


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## CanucksTraveller (10 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> *Already been out this morning and done 30 mile*s, some on road some gravel. When I've had my tea, *I'm going to go out again for another hour *before it gets dark and do 10 or 11 more miles of relaxed pootling.



You can go out once per day to exercise, and you know that... no need to kick the arse out of it.


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## nickyboy (10 Apr 2020)

Rupie said:


> A friend of mine lives near Box hill, which as we know is closed. I looked on Strava and because I am as bored as hell at the moment looked at who went past there today in a random segment. Out of the top 25 fastest people their individual rides averages at about 47miles each. One bloke had done 106miles today and another 75m there were quite a few in the 20's and 30's but still enough high distances to push up the average.


Conversely, I looked at all my Strava flybys today. Now on a normal sunny bank holiday I'd expect a good number of metric centuries

None

The longest ride (out of about 25 cyclists) was 50 miles. There were a couple in the 40s...but there were twenty odd in the "normal exercise" distance of less than 30 miles

Definitely some evidence around here that the message is getting through. Also only saw solo cyclists


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## iandg (10 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Conversely, I looked at all my Strava flybys today. Now on a normal sunny bank holiday I'd expect a good number of metric centuries
> 
> None
> 
> ...



That's good -I'm getting into a lot of arguments because people think that my thoughts are you shouldn't be riding. I have no problem with people riding bikes (I've decided that what's right for me is the turbo + dog waking) - but it's a real pandemic. The situation that the country is in needs folk to question if they really need to be out for as long as their schedule told them they need to be out for or if more time at home would be a better option. Just be sensible, don't overdo it and take care.


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## DaveReading (10 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> You can go out once per day to exercise, and you know that...



Nope, no such legal restriction.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Nope, no such legal restriction.


Although I am reading the NI legislation, this is correct.


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## DaveReading (10 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Although I am reading the NI legislation, this is correct.



You were responding to a poster based in London, who is free to go out cycling as often as they wish.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> You were responding to a poster based in London, who is free to go out cycling as often as they wish.


I know, I said that


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## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> The situation that the country is in needs folk to question if they really need to be out for as long as their schedule told them they need to be out for or if more time at home would be a better option. Just be sensible, don't overdo it and take care.


No, the situation that the country is in needs folk to question if having a population that's less fit than usual is a good idea right now or if people spending a little less time at home would be a better option. As long as they're sensible, don't overdo it and take care, that is.

Usually about now, I'd be riding 12 hours a week at this point even in iffy weather, building up to go touring and take part in some big event rides, but I'm doing only about 7 despite the warmth, rarely leaving the fens and my home valley. With no events or tours any time soon, motivation seems more difficult.


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## CanucksTraveller (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Nope, no such legal restriction.



I didn't say there was a legal restriction, the government are simply asking you to restrict your movements to help us all out. Exercise once per day is all they ask. But I know the type I'm talking to so I'll not persist, a new message never seems to get through those horny old hides.
You'll do whatever you want, regardless.


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## slowmotion (11 Apr 2020)

London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham has banned joggers and cyclists from the Thames Path between 10am and 6pm over Easter. It seems pretty sensible because it is so crowded that social distancing is getting impossible. It's hard enough when I go out at 7:30pm for an hour or so. Now there'll be a whole lot more joggers to contend with.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> You can go out once per day to exercise, and you know that... no need to kick the arse out of it.



As others have correctly pointed out already, I can go out as many times as I wish, for exercise, shopping, or work purposes - so I'm not kicking the arse out of anything. And whatever distances I do ride don't get uploaded to Strava either. As it happened I did go out again, for just over an hour in the evening, which would have meant a daily total of at least 40 miles. That's on my own, not in a close proximity group with others, so it's irrelevant to anyone else what mileage I do or whether it's in one ride or multiple rides, or a mixture of rides and walks.
Some people who seem to think it's their entitlement to stick their oar in and make judgements about how much exercise is deemed "reasonable" for someone else to do, would be far better off just *minding their own business* and concentrating on what *they *do, rather than being self-appointed busybodies telling everyone else what to do. Far from restricting my physical activity, since the shite weather finally improved last month, I've actually been doing double the amount of cycling and walking I would normally do - and I will be keeping this increased activity up all the time that the virus restrictions continue to interfere with my normal routine.


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## hoopdriver (11 Apr 2020)

Social distancing on the beach at Cooden, early in the morning, observed on my ride. Looks pretty good to me. 

Side note: the dazzling sunshine and reflections off the water and damp low-tide sand blew out the colour and created this interesting monochrome effect.


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## ozboz (11 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham has banned joggers and cyclists from the Thames Path between 10am and 6pm over Easter. It seems pretty sensible because it is so crowded that social distancing is getting impossible. It's hard enough when I go out at 7:30pm for an hour or so. Now there'll be a whole lot more joggers to contend with.


That’s interesting , i was on part of that yesterday from Putney to Richmond , there was quite a lot of cycling activity ,


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## Mo1959 (11 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> View attachment 514127
> 
> 
> Social distancing on the beach at Cooden, early in the morning, observed on my ride. Looks pretty good to me.
> ...


Love that!


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## DaveReading (11 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham has banned joggers and cyclists from the Thames Path between 10am and 6pm over Easter. It seems pretty sensible because it is so crowded that social distancing is getting impossible. It's hard enough when I go out at 7:30pm for an hour or so. Now there'll be a whole lot more joggers to contend with.



Yes, they showed on the TV news last night runners being told to walk and cyclists to dismount on the towpath.

That seems a bit irrational, given that it increases the time they are exposed to people that they are passing, and vice versa, though I suspect the hidden aim was to persuade them to run and cycle somewhere less crowded, which makes more sense.


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## iandg (11 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> No, the situation that the country is in needs folk to question if having a population that's less fit than usual is a good idea right now or if people spending a little less time at home would be a better option. As long as they're sensible, don't overdo it and take care, that is.
> 
> Usually about now, I'd be riding 12 hours a week at this point even in iffy weather, building up to go touring and take part in some big event rides, but I'm doing only about 7 despite the warmth, rarely leaving the fens and my home valley. With no events or tours any time soon, motivation seems more difficult.



The population is probably getting fitter with the number of people I pass on my daily dog walk (and the number of cyclists that are out on the road according to my clubmates).

You should be able to maintain a good level of fitness on 7 hours a week. I have continued with the daily dog walk (about 4-5km) and done about 200 virtual km on rollers/turbo since 'lockdown' started. Up to 22nd March I had covered just over 2000km in around 95 hours and 50 rides and was looking forward to longer rides over the summer months. I'm still fit and confident that I could ride 200km tomorrow if restriction was lifted despite no outdoor cycling for 3 weeks and I've maintained the same weight and BP that I had in March when I stopped cycling outdoors (I was 80kg and had a BP of around 155/90 at the end of 2019, I'm currently 77.5kg and 140/80).

To date I've missed 1 audax event cancelled due to covid restrictions, the Dirty Reiver next week is rescheduled for September and I was also looking forward to a 300km in May and a 200km in June. I'm confident that I've maintained a reasonable level of fitness

Everything will get back to 'normal' when infection rate starts to decline - that's only going to happen by reducing transmission and transmission to a vulnerable person may kill them. More people out on the streets for longer (running, jogging, cycling) results in social distancing becoming more difficult - so no, spending a little less time at home is probably not the best option.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> You can go out once per day to exercise, and you know that... no need to kick the arse out of it.



@SkipdiverJohn can go out at often as he likes for exercise in England and you know that.


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> More people out on the streets for longer (running, jogging, cycling) results in social distancing becoming more difficult - so no, spending a little less time at home is probably not the best option.


I don't agree that social distancing becomes more difficult with cycling as long as people mostly ride out of built-up areas, rather than all head for the banks of the Thames. I was no closer than 4m to anyone but my wife yesterday when cycling and most of the time, I couldn't even see anyone else. I'm closer than that to other people when in my garden!

Would anyone like to divide England's road length by population by say 3 (as we won't all be out all day) and see how much road per person? The problem is distribution not space and cycling spreads people over a wider area.


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## CanucksTraveller (11 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> As others have correctly pointed out already, *I can go out as many times as I wish, for exercise*, shopping, or work purposes - so I'm not kicking the arse out of anything. And whatever distances I do ride don't get uploaded to Strava either. As it happened I did go out again, for just over an hour in the evening, which would have meant a daily total of at least 40 miles. That's on my own, not in a close proximity group with others, so it's irrelevant to anyone else what mileage I do or whether it's in one ride or multiple rides, or a mixture of rides and walks.
> Some people who seem to think it's their entitlement to stick their oar in and make judgements about how much exercise is deemed "reasonable" for someone else to do, would be far better off just *minding their own business* and concentrating on what *they *do, rather than being self-appointed busybodies telling everyone else what to do. Far from restricting my physical activity, since the shite weather finally improved last month, I've actually been doing double the amount of cycling and walking I would normally do - and I will be keeping this increased activity up all the time that the virus restrictions continue to interfere with my normal routine.



*1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:


shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
*one* form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household
any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home
But by all means keep doing your own thing, because you're interpreting it "as you wish" and even seeing it in black and white isn't going to convince you.


----------



## Low Gear Guy (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Yes, they showed on the TV news last night runners being told to walk and cyclists to dismount on the towpath.
> 
> That seems a bit irrational, given that it increases the time they are exposed to people that they are passing, and vice versa, though I suspect the hidden aim was to persuade them to run and cycle somewhere less crowded, which makes more sense.


There is also a potential issue with speed differentials. The runner and cyclists will be passing lots of people at slow speed whereas the walkers will be moving at a similar pace and generally keeping spaced out.


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## PK99 (11 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> There is also a potential issue with speed differentials. *The runner and cyclists will be passing lots of people* at slow speed whereas the walkers will be moving at a similar pace and generally keeping spaced out.



Exactly, while waling on Wimbledon common I have not once been close passed by a walker but have been numerous times by cyclists and runners.


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## lane (11 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham has banned joggers and cyclists from the Thames Path between 10am and 6pm over Easter. It seems pretty sensible because it is so crowded that social distancing is getting impossible. It's hard enough when I go out at 7:30pm for an hour or so. Now there'll be a whole lot more joggers to contend with.



Exactly the point I was making about the French curfu if you restrict times people go out more people out at the same time is the result which is worse.


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## lane (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Exactly, while waling on Wimbledon common I have not once been close passed by a walker but have been numerous times by cyclists and runners.



Same here when walking closed passed by a runner when cycling by a cyclist despite a straight wide road with no traffic. That was a group of two cyclists out together.


----------



## alicat (11 Apr 2020)

That says one *form* of exercise a day. So in theory I can go cycling as much as i want but can't do a run and a walk on the same day.

To be clear, I have decided to go by the spirit of it and am either cycling or walking but not both.


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

Report on local CTC Facebook page of police pulling up when a cyclist stopped for call of nature and a second hand report of cyclist being stopped and asked where he lived - not sure if true or not due to being second hand but suspect it probably is.


----------



## PK99 (11 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Exactly the point I was making about the French curfu if you restrict times people go out more people out at the same time is the result which is worse.



The simple solution :

Jog or cycle on the road not where walkers are - after all there are precious few cars there now!

Do not cycle on towpaths or shared paths

Do no jog on towpaths or pedestrian paths.


----------



## JtB (11 Apr 2020)

I’ve decided to keep my intensive exercise indoors on my cross and turbo trainers, while my single daily outdoor exercise is walking.


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> *1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
> You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:
> 
> 
> ...


That isn't what the law says (and we've been round this many many times, so I'm sure you know that).


----------



## lazybloke (11 Apr 2020)

Flyby shows 109 athletes during my 21 miles this morning. That's a lorra lorra cyclists.
A few couples. Some family groups, but mostly all solo.

Saw just one paceline, of 3. I hope they were from the same household!
Went past the bottom of Box Hill just to confirm it was closed: Yep, coned and taped off, and guarded by the police!

EDIT: 119. I guess not everyone has uploaded yet.


----------



## DaveReading (11 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> *1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
> You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:
> 
> 
> ...



It's about time we knocked this one on the head once and for all.

What the law (in other words what you can be prosecuted under) says about exercise:







That's it. The sum total of the law's reference to exercise. No mention whatsoever of how often, how long or how far.

Anything else you see published is advice or guidelines (and may well be sound advice), *but it isn't the law.*


----------



## Brandane (11 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> *1. When am I allowed to leave the house?*
> You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:
> 
> 
> ...


Can common sense not prevail. By your rules, it's ok to go out at 6am and stay out cycling as far as you can until whatever time suits you, as long as you get home by midnight. But God forbid that someone nips out in the morning for a 10 mile ride, comes home for lunch, then nips out for another 10 miles in the afternoon.


----------



## anothersam (11 Apr 2020)

Brandane said:


> Can common sense not prevail.



View: https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Flyby shows 109 athletes during my 21 miles this morning. That's a lorra lorra cyclists. [...]
> EDIT: 119. I guess not everyone has uploaded yet.


A bit under six per mile? No one would bat an eyelid at six car passengers a mile and they're only allowed for work, medical and essential shopping not exercise. Double standards?


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> It's about time we knocked this one on the head once and for all.
> 
> What the law (in other words what you can be prosecuted under) says about exercise:
> 
> ...



You should be following the guidance not the law. Maybe you are doing but just feel the need to be some sort of Barack room lawyer which is fairly pointless because I don't think anyone disagrees your interpretation MAY be correct. Maybe you think it's OK to ignore the guidance in which case I will keep my thoughts to myself.


----------



## Blue Hills (11 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Report on local CTC Facebook page of police pulling up when a cyclist stopped for call of nature and a second hand report of cyclist being stopped and asked where he lived - not sure if true or not due to being second hand but suspect it probably is.


Local to where?


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Local to where?


Derby


----------



## Blue Hills (11 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Derby


Ta, where these folks in deep country?
I wouldn't go for a deep country ride at the moment, far from home, in case i was hit with bonk or worse. But that still leaves a lot of miles within london.


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Ta, where these folks in deep country?
> I wouldn't go for a deep country ride at the moment, far from home, in case i was hit with bonk or worse. But that still leaves a lot of miles within london.



No don't think so


----------



## ColinJ (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> The simple solution :
> 
> Jog or cycle on the road not where walkers are - after all there are precious few cars there now!


You would _think _so, eh, but you are not allowing for the way that some people (_don't?_) think!

I rode up onto a little hilltop lane yesterday. It is permanently closed to vehicles due to landslips repeatedly breaking up the surface. A family, like me, were taking advantage of the lack of traffic and enjoying the views. They were coming towards me so I slowed down to approach and pass them safely. They saw me coming and mum (with a baby on her back) moved over to her right, dad moved over to his left and two daughters on their bikes moved to right of centre and left of centre, leaving me a narrow strip in the centre of the road. Other than turning round and riding away from them, there was no way to avoid a close pass so I held my breath and cycled slowly between the two girls. "Lovely day!" called out dad...


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> You should be following the guidance not the law. [...]


It is not possible to follow all the contradictory guidance and given a choice between Gove and a medic specialising in my illness, I ain't choosing Gove! I do of course obey that law.


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> It is not possible to follow all the contradictory guidance and given a choice between Gove and a medic specialising in my illness, I ain't choosing Gove! I do of course obey that law.


It is possible to follow the guidance the Government has published.


----------



## vickster (11 Apr 2020)

You are allowed to go out more than once for medical reasons as per updated guidance - if questioned you can explain that you are following your specialist’s recommendation

I both cycled yesterday and walked to the shops in the village around a mile from home. My rheumatologist encourages me to be as active as possible 

I followed the social distancing 2m rule as best as I could (mostly much more)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do (paragraph 15)


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> You are allowed to go out more than once for medical reasons as per updated guidance - if questioned you can explain that you are following your specialist’s recommendation
> 
> I both cycled yesterday and walked to the shops in the village around a mile from home. My rheumatologist encourages me to be as active as possible
> 
> ...


Thank you. That seemed to be missing from @CanucksTraveller's posted copy. This is why links are needed to stop half-truths and spin spreading.


----------



## snorri (11 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> whatever happened to legislation? Is law now just an ad hoc series of whims, ideas, postulations uttered by the high and mighty and then enforced by Jumped-up badge flashers?





hoopdriver said:


> Yes, and for Gods sake don’t enjoy it.
> The guy’s opinion, however lofty his title, are just opinions, nothing more, and not law.


The situation is ever changing, consider the delay that would be caused in reforming laws daily to cater for the latest developments in scientific research and monitoring. How long would it take to reform the laws and how many would die while we waited?
"The guy's opinion" was expressed after a lifetime of training and experience, he is trying to protect the population from serious illness and death.
For me, I'm happyto comply with current law but what I really want is sound advice on avoiding Covid-19, and if that requires more stringent restrictions than the current law then so be it..


----------



## lane (11 Apr 2020)

Yes a point seems to be missed by some. If you follow the guidelines you are keeping YOU safe even if you arn't too bothered about anyone else.


----------



## nickyboy (11 Apr 2020)

This issue of social distancing when riding on the road is presenting a bit of a challenge....

There are lots more pedestrians out than normal and if they're on the pavement on my side I need to move out to the middle of the road. But of course motorists aren't used to this. No probs if no traffic behind but if a car is behind I can (a) stop (b) pass the pedestrian too close (c) move out to the middle of the road 

I've tried (c) but it doesn't feel very safe so I'm tending to slow right down, let the car pass and then move wide around the pedestrian. Not ideal


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> This issue of social distancing when riding on the road is presenting a bit of a challenge....
> 
> There are lots more pedestrians out than normal and if they're on the pavement on my side I need to move out to the middle of the road. But of course motorists aren't used to this. No probs if no traffic behind but if a car is behind I can (a) stop (b) pass the pedestrian too close (c) move out to the middle of the road
> 
> I've tried (c) but it doesn't feel very safe so I'm tending to slow right down, let the car pass and then move wide around the pedestrian. Not ideal


Take the whole bloody road if you feel the need. Drivers SHOULD have the skill to deal with this, and my recent experience is that drivers are being *remarkably* reasonable. (apart from a few crazy outliers, and most of those got bored after the 1st week)


----------



## neil_merseyside (11 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> This issue of social distancing when riding on the road is presenting a bit of a challenge....
> 
> There are lots more pedestrians out than normal and if they're on the pavement on my side I need to move out to the middle of the road. But of course motorists aren't used to this. No probs if no traffic behind but if a car is behind I can (a) stop (b) pass the pedestrian too close (c) *move out to the middle of the road*
> 
> I've tried (c) but it doesn't feel very safe so I'm tending to slow right down, let the car pass and then move wide around the pedestrian. Not ideal


Just stay centre of lane, no need to move over then.


----------



## vickster (11 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> This issue of social distancing when riding on the road is presenting a bit of a challenge....
> 
> There are lots more pedestrians out than normal and if they're on the pavement on my side I need to move out to the middle of the road. But of course motorists aren't used to this. No probs if no traffic behind but if a car is behind I can (a) stop (b) pass the pedestrian too close (c) move out to the middle of the road
> 
> I've tried (c) but it doesn't feel very safe so I'm tending to slow right down, let the car pass and then move wide around the pedestrian. Not ideal


Just get past them as quickly as possible while holding your breath


----------



## Drago (11 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> That isn't what the law says (and we've been round this many many times, so I'm sure you know that).


We all know that the measures are intended to slow or halt the progress of a deadly disease, but some people think they're more important than society as a whole so choose to go for unnecessarily long jaunts, or for multiple sessions, solely because it is not expressly legislated against. They're usually the argumentative sort who would argue black was white on the point of mere principle, and despite knowing what the actual _guidance _is and the governments intent on the matter, they're determined to exercise the right for no other reason than they selfishly can. It's no more than self righteous self entitlement.


----------



## nickyboy (11 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Take the whole bloody road if you feel the need. Drivers SHOULD have the skill to deal with this, and my recent experience is that drivers are being *remarkably* reasonable. (apart from a few crazy outliers, and most of those got bored after the 1st week)


Great, I'll remember I was in the right whilst I'm in A&E

I've tried signalling that I intend to move towards the middle of the road but as there are no right turns I think car drivers get a bit confused as to what I'm doing

Safest (apart from holding my breath) is maybe slow down until no car behind


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Great, I'll remember I was in the right whilst I'm in A&E


Do what you like - it works for me, and has never even resulted in a near miss.


----------



## lazybloke (11 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> A bit under six per mile? No one would bat an eyelid at six car passengers a mile and they're only allowed for work, medical and essential shopping not exercise. Double standards?


By all means go and rant about motorised vehicles in an appropriate thread, and maybe throw around more casual accusations of double standards.

I'll stay on-topic: There are now 159 riders on flyby, yet I saw very little evidence of illicit group-riding or even bunching.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> Great, I'll remember I was in the right whilst I'm in A&E
> 
> I've tried signalling that I intend to move towards the middle of the road but as there are no right turns I think car drivers get a bit confused as to what I'm doing
> 
> Safest (apart from holding my breath) is maybe slow down until no car behind



Just control the road move out at least two meters and it’ll be fine.


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> We all know that the measures are intended to slow or halt the progress of a deadly disease, but some people think they're more important than society as a whole so choose to go for unnecessarily long jaunts, or for multiple sessions, solely because it is not expressly legislated against.


I am confident very few are doing it solely for that reason, if any. You could probably convince me some are partly, but I bet you can't show anyone professing solely.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> some people think they're more important than society as a whole so choose to go for unnecessarily long jaunts, or for multiple sessions, solely because it is not expressly legislated against



Agreed.

The legislation has to be read in conjunction with the government guidance and its ultimate aim: keeping people indoors as much as possible.

There wasn’t time to go over every eventuality when framing the legislation so it isn’t watertight but the message is clear in every broadcast made in the public service announcements; stay at home. I could be going out of the house for some fresh air a lot more by making an essential trip to the shop every single day for one pint of milk but I’m not interested in gaming the system when the stakes are this high.

It’s irresponsible to exploit the inevitable gaps in the rushed legislation when the purpose behind them is both well known and so vital.

Taking advantage of loopholes in this situation doesn’t make you clever, just an arse.


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> The legislation has to be read in conjunction with the government guidance and its ultimate aim: keeping people indoors as much as possible.


If that was the aim, why are we allowed (and encouraged in some advice) into our gardens?



> Taking advantage of loopholes in this situation doesn’t make you clever, just an arse.


Equally, simplifying the guidance down to a simple-but-wrong instruction that would be toxic to public health and then ranting at other people who are following the actual guidance rather than anyone's preferred simplified lie doesn't make you right.


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

lazybloke said:


> I'll stay on-topic: There are now 159 riders on flyby, yet I saw very little evidence of illicit group-riding or even bunching.


Have you tried using a tele-photo lens? That can give the ... "correct" view sometimes.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 Apr 2020)

If I posted in here that riding 2 abreast is illegal I would be very quickly corrected - let's not post advice loosely gleamed from the COVID19 legislations as law when it isn't. People are allowed out to exercise, there is no time limit or geofence - those are facts...

Cut the BS out, I for one have no problem with shorter time/distance outdoor rides as I've been doing - because it's the right thing to do, perhaps suggesting that would be better received than, "IT'S AGAINST THE LAWWWWWWWW"****

****The relevant legislations have been quoted here almost ad nauseam****


----------



## Mike_P (11 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Just control the road move out at least two meters and it’ll be fine.


I've been pulled out the requisite distance when passing pedestrians / slower cyclists and on two occasions now a vehicle approaching from the rear has obviously slowed without any complaint from the driver. I did get my workplace to include on an internal newsletter an advisory for motorists to give cyclists more space especially when they are approaching pedestrians. If in doubt a couple of glances back should alert the motorist than you are intending to do something. Indicating does confuse motorists if you do not make a turning, I baffled some on the A59 a while back as I indicated in order to avoid a pot hole and they stayed behind me for some distance expecting me to actually turn right.


----------



## DaveReading (11 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Drago said:
> 
> 
> > some people think they're more important than society as a whole so choose to go for unnecessarily long jaunts, or for multiple sessions, solely because it is not expressly legislated against.
> ...


Then the argument is simply one of degree.

Out of interest, what would you (both) say to someone who maintained (perfectly reasonably) that society would be even safer if you didn't go out cycling at all ?


----------



## ozboz (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Then the argument is simply one of degree.
> 
> Out of interest, what would you (both) say to someone who maintained (perfectly reasonably) that society would be even safer if you didn't go out cycling at all ?



I am a frequent poster on a neighbourhood site, there are some posters on there that say exactly this , no cycling , end of for the duration, I do not totally agree with them , but it is debatable, the shared cycle paths around here are not exactly at saturation point , but well ridden about 2m wide and a two way system. 
I have not yet witnessed any riders giving any others a wide berth , and some are pushing it speed wise.


----------



## Gunk (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> We all know that the measures are intended to slow or halt the progress of a deadly disease, but some people think they're more important than society as a whole so choose to go for unnecessarily long jaunts, or for multiple sessions, solely because it is not expressly legislated against. They're usually the argumentative sort who would argue black was white on the point of mere principle, and despite knowing what the actual _guidance _is and the governments intent on the matter, they're determined to exercise the right for no other reason than they selfishly can. It's no more than self righteous self entitlement.



It’s just an arrogance, same as people buying compost or driving 200 miles to pick something up off eBay.


----------



## anothersam (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Out of interest, what would you (both) say to someone who maintained (perfectly reasonably) that society would be even safer if you didn't go out cycling at all ?


Does a “perfectly reasonable” argument against cycling, as opposed to other types of exercise and transportation, exist? If so, it might be interesting to read it.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (11 Apr 2020)

*Mod note:*

The Statutory Instrument that sets out the law regarding how many times per day you can leave your home to exercise sets no limit to how many times that you _can_ leave your house to exercise.

Government advice, however, _recommends/suggests_ that you limit leaving your house for exercise to once per day.

With this in mind it is pointless going round and round the debate as to what individuals should and shouldn't do. Members clearly fall into two different camps and the arguments between the two are generating more than their fair share of reports. Ergo, it is suggested that members please cease debating this particular issue.

Many thanks.


----------



## pawl (11 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Do what you like - it works for me, and has never even resulted in a near miss.



Doesn’t mean that it won’t


----------



## Tim O (11 Apr 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> With this in mind it is pointless going round and round the debate as to what individuals should and shouldn't do. Members clearly fall into two different camps and the arguments between the two are generating more than their fair share of reports. Ergo, it is suggested that members please cease debating this particular issue.


Absolutely and well said. I am out on my bike quite a few times each day and have been very impressed with the general decency of people who seem to me to be doing their absolute best to observe the guidance about social distance with great good humour. I have not witnessed cyclists in groups (apart from, obviously, family groups). Walkers and cyclists are forcing themselves into hedges on bridleways and there is much, "After you Claude..." etc. People seem to me to be just doing their best. No need to be angry guys...


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Do what you like - it works for me, and has never even resulted in a near miss.





pawl said:


> Doesn’t mean that it won’t


then do what _you _like - I'm really not bothered. Has no effect on me - I was just trying to be helpful, hadn't expected such a hostile response. Bizarre.


----------



## AuroraSaab (11 Apr 2020)

One of the nice things about the lockdown is the big increase in families going out on their bikes. I am certainly enjoying the fact that the roads are quieter. It's really helping me get back on the bike after hurting my shoulder.


----------



## Brandane (11 Apr 2020)

lazybloke said:


> I'll stay on-topic: There are now 159 riders on flyby, yet I saw very little evidence of illicit group-riding or even bunching.


Are you sure they are all "riders"?
In the days before I went and used the default setting of having all my rides private (to avoid the willy waving fraternity), I would sometimes look at flybys. If I actually looked at the persons ride, it turned out that the numbers also included joggers and walkers, who for reasons best known to themselves also use Strava.


----------



## matticus (11 Apr 2020)

Strava was actually created for runners! Dunno the stats now ...


----------



## Phaeton (11 Apr 2020)

Brandane said:


> In the days before I went and used the default setting of having all my rides private (to avoid the willy waving fraternity)


All my rides are private, but I am still seen on Flybys & can see others, just nobody can click on me & see me or anything about my rides. I don't wave my willy at anyone BTW they'd only laugh


----------



## Drago (11 Apr 2020)

The chief constable of Derbyshire is getting a bit fed up with the covidiots (warning - definitely NSFW, young children, the elderly, or those of a nervous disposition!)


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4yqI4odWdE


----------



## pawl (11 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> All my rides are private, but I am still seen on Flybys & can see others, just nobody can click on me & see me or anything about my rides. I don't wave my willy at anyone BTW they'd only laugh




If I waved my willy they would need super zoom to se it.


----------



## AuroraSaab (11 Apr 2020)

Hubble Telescope surely?


----------



## Slick (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> The chief constable of Derbyshire is getting a bit fed up with the covidiots (warning - definitely NSFW, young children, the elderly, or those of a nervous disposition!)
> 
> 
> View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4yqI4odWdE



Wow, wish he wouldn't be so vague.


----------



## PK99 (11 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> It is not possible to follow all the contradictory guidance and given a choice between Gove and a medic specialising in my illness, I ain't choosing Gove! I do of course obey that law.




There is no law about close passing someone on a bicycle


----------



## C R (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> The chief constable of Derbyshire is getting a bit fed up with the covidiots (warning - definitely NSFW, young children, the elderly, or those of a nervous disposition!)
> 
> 
> View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4yqI4odWdE



He is right. The thing is, though, in many cases the problem is as much the parents as the kids.

There are nurses and doctors and cleaners and supermarket cashiers and bus drivers and many others putting their lives at risk every day. Before you leave the house, think, do you really need to?


----------



## mjr (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> There is no law about close passing someone on a bicycle


But equally, there's no credible guidance telling anyone to do that one, either!


----------



## ozboz (11 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> The chief constable of Derbyshire is getting a bit fed up with the covidiots (warning - definitely NSFW, young children, the elderly, or those of a nervous disposition!)
> 
> 
> View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4yqI4odWdE



Well , he’s a straight shooter if ever I saw one ! 
but he is right , maybe not plugin people ‘arris’s though !


----------



## Mike_P (11 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> He is right. The thing is, though, in many cases the problem is as much the parents as the kids.
> 
> There are nurses and doctors and cleaners and supermarket cashiers and bus drivers and many others putting their lives at risk every day. Before you leave the house, think, do you really need to?


There is I would suggest a very simple solution to it, make it that anyone found not out of their property for genuine reason along with all the occupants of the property will be at low priority for medical attention compared to anyone who has complied with the requirements.


----------



## ozboz (11 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> There is I would suggest a very simple solution to it, make it that anyone found not out of their property for genuine reason along with all the occupants of the property will be at low priority for medical attention compared to anyone who has complied with the requirements.


I do not know for sure , but as the the NHS people I think swear an oath maybe doing as you suggest would be unethical, also how could it be proved that they were out and about misbehaving at the time they were infected,


----------



## DaveReading (11 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> There is I would suggest a very simple solution to it, make it that anyone found not out of their property for genuine reason along with all the occupants of the property will be at low priority for medical attention compared to anyone who has complied with the requirements.



Neither simple, nor a solution. Aside from the ethical considerations, are you advocating that we should all be under continuous surveillance to determine our eligibility for NHS treatment ?

Even Priti Patel would draw the line at that.


----------



## Rusty Nails (11 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Neither simple, nor a solution. Aside from the ethical considerations, are you advocating that we should all be under continuous surveillance to determine our eligibility for NHS treatment ?
> *Even Priti Patel would draw the line at that.*



I hope she's not reading this thread. Could give her ideas.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> There is no law about close passing someone on a bicycle



Both careless and dangerous driving would cover it.


----------



## Phaeton (11 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> My presumption, rightly or wrongly was that they all met somewhere then started riding at intervals, rather like an ITT.
> Leads me to think there would have been a noticeable sized group at start / finish.


My presumption, rightly or wrongly was that they prearranged a route that they all could ride so they could compare via the Internet once they had all gone home. Did you have log your route on Strava? Do you have flyby?


----------



## slowmotion (11 Apr 2020)

Slightly off-topic, but does poncing about on an electric scooter count as "exercise"? I can see that operating the throttle might give your wrist a thorough workout but that's about it.


----------



## iandg (11 Apr 2020)

slowmotion said:


> Slightly off-topic, but does poncing about on an electric scooter count as "exercise"? I can see that operating the throttle might give your wrist a thorough workout but that's about it.



Can think of better ways to give your wrist a work out


----------



## slowmotion (11 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Can think of better ways to give your wrist a work out


Judging by how some of them ride, they already seem to be combining the two activities.


----------



## ozboz (12 Apr 2020)

iandg said:


> Can think of better ways to give your wrist a work out


Oh , you like bell ringing also


----------



## Phaeton (12 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> That is why I added the "rightly or wrongly"


Me too, did you log it?


----------



## matticus (12 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> Can't help but think I witnessed a club circumnavigating the regulations / being inventive today. About every 5-10 minutes a cyclist would come towards me. It dawned on me after 3 or 4 they were all in the same jersey. Quite a few more of them passed me before I turned off this road. The jersey wasn't familiar to me and couldn't make out what it said.
> My presumption, rightly or wrongly was that they all met somewhere then started riding at intervals, rather like an ITT.
> Leads me to think there would have been a noticeable sized group at start / finish.


I suggest you hunt them down and cut off their ghoulies. It's the only way.
Who cares if your presumption turns out wrong? It will make YOU feel better, I'm sure


----------



## mjr (12 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> Apologies if I hadn't phrased it correctly, English is not my first language and sometimes I will get it wrong. If I have caused offence it was not intentional.


I think @Phaeton would prefer you to answer the question rather than apologise. "No, Strava is shoot that I don't use" would be fine.


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> I suggest you hunt them down and cut off their *ghoulies*. It's the only way.


As a slang word I don't suppose this has an official spelling, but I have _never_ seen it spelt that way before (always "goolies"). It brings to mind the possibility of supernatural beings that live in underpants.

As you were … grr grr covidiots! grr it doesn't say that in the legislation.


----------



## vickster (12 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> As a slang word I don't suppose this has an official spelling, but I have _never_ seen it spelt that way before (always "goolies"). It brings to mind the possibility of supernatural beings that live in underpants.
> 
> As you were … grr grr covidiots! grr it doesn't say that in the legislation.


Goolies surely


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Goolies surely


Back in the old days, when such things were permitted, I used to regularly drive along the M62 on my way North. Every time we passed the exit for Goole I would wittily exclaim "Goole! Woooooo!" in a ghoulish manner. My wife found it hilarious. Well I assume she did. Saying "Shut up and keep your eyes on the road" was her way of showing her appreciation.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2020)

No groups whilst out riding this morning.


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## matticus (12 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> As a slang word I don't suppose this has an official spelling, but I have _never_ seen it spelt that way before (always "goolies"). It brings to mind the possibility of supernatural beings that live in underpants.
> 
> As you were … grr grr covidiots! grr it doesn't say that in the legislation.


My apologies. I was distracted by reminissssence on the original: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Not_t...oposed_as_a_solution_for_football_hooliganism.


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## AuroraSaab (12 Apr 2020)

"According to Strava data, one cyclist, who is based in Swinton, rode for seven hours and 40 minutes on a 121-mile round trip to Much Wenlock, Shropshire on Wednesday...."

It wasn't me. I did 3 miles round my local streets after tea yesterday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-backlash-stretch-bike-rides-200-miles.html


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## SpokeyDokey (12 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> "According to Strava data, one cyclist, who is based in Swinton, rode for seven hours and 40 minutes on a 121-mile round trip to Much Wenlock, Shropshire on Wednesday...."
> 
> It wasn't me. I did 3 miles round my local streets after tea yesterday.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-backlash-stretch-bike-rides-200-miles.html



That is such a bad article, on so many levels, that it ought to be consigned to Room 101 imo.


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## Supersuperleeds (12 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Goolies surely


Bollocks (I would have sworn that would have got changed by the filters!)


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## C R (12 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bollocks (I would have sworn that would have got changed by the filters!)


The filter seems to be somewhat US English oriented, arse doesn't get changed either.


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## vickster (12 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> The filter seems to be somewhat US English oriented, arse doesn't get changed either.


they're hardly swear words, just slang


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2020)

This is what local A roads look like during lockdown. I may never get a chance to ride them again , given typical traffic levels.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bollocks (I would have sworn that would have got changed by the filters!)



Buster Gonad and his unfeasibly large testicles.

Well he appears to get through but sure Sustrans infrastructure would stop him.


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## Rickshaw Phil (12 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bollocks (I would have sworn that would have got changed by the filters!)





C R said:


> The filter seems to be somewhat US English oriented, arse doesn't get changed either.


The swear filter isn't comprehensive. Shaun has set it up to alter the words he personally doesn't want to see on the site.


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## C R (12 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> they're hardly swear words, just slang


You could say the same for shoot or shite, and yet those do get changed.


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## C R (12 Apr 2020)

C R said:


> You could say the same for shoot or shite, and yet those do get changed.


Ooh, just discovered another one that gets through.


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## Phaeton (12 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> Apologies if I hadn't phrased it correctly, English is not my first language and sometimes I will get it wrong. If I have caused offence it was not intentional.


No apology needed, I just wondered if you had logged it then you could have a look on Flybys to see if they met up or set off together


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## newfhouse (12 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> This is what local A roads look like during lockdown. I may never get a chance to ride them again , given typical traffic levels.
> 
> View attachment 514485


And this was the M25 yesterday looking towards Jct 8. I didn’t risk riding it, tempting as it was.


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## Phaeton (12 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> And this was the M25 yesterday looking towards Jct 8. I didn’t risk riding it, tempting as it was.
> View attachment 514500


I'm gobsmacked there's nobody in the middle lane.


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## newfhouse (12 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I'm gobsmacked there's nobody in the middle lane.


If you look you can see someone in lane 3 on both carriageways, just obscured by the bridge.


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## Phaeton (12 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> If you look you can see someone in lane 3 on both carriageways, just obscured by the bridge.


I can only see a car & a HGV in lane 1 where they should be, if only everybody did that


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## vickster (12 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I can only see a car & a HGV in lane 1 where they should be, if only everybody did that


There’s a car passing the lorry and another sort of underneath the lit up sign


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## newfhouse (12 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> I can only see a car & a HGV in lane 1 where they should be, if only everybody did that


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## snorri (12 Apr 2020)

"And how did you pass the time during the great Corona lockdown of 2020 Dad?"
"Son, I spotted more cars than anyone else on a picture of the M25."


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## newfhouse (12 Apr 2020)

snorri said:


> "And how did you pass the time during the great Corona lockdown of 2020 Dad?"
> "Son, I spotted more cars than anyone else on a picture of the M25."


Where’s Wally? Oh look, there are at least two.


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## mjr (12 Apr 2020)

Only family-looking groups on today's 75-min ride. We saw more bikes than cars, even on the A47!


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## DaveReading (12 Apr 2020)

AuroraSaab said:


> "According to Strava data, one cyclist, who is based in Swinton, rode for seven hours and 40 minutes on a 121-mile round trip to Much Wenlock, Shropshire on Wednesday...."
> 
> It wasn't me. I did 3 miles round my local streets after tea yesterday.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-backlash-stretch-bike-rides-200-miles.html



Hmmm.

Paragraph 2:

"Around 30,000 British fitness fanatics have joined a month-long challenge organised by social-fitness app Strava, which tracks cycling and running exercises."

I read the rest of the article, looking for the part that started

"Asked to comment, Strava responded ...".

But then I remembered it's the Daily Mail.


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## Gunk (12 Apr 2020)

I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮

Are cyclists recording and sharing their performance data from every ride? Doesn’t sound very relaxing, just over competitive. I suppose that’s the world we now live in.


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## Slick (12 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮
> 
> Are cyclists recording and sharing their performance data from every ride? Doesn’t sound very relaxing, just over competitive. I suppose that’s the world we now live in.


Yes. Time, distance, elevation, route even time started and completed which I have mine set at private.


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## Phaeton (12 Apr 2020)

I log each ride but don't share them with anybody


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## rogerzilla (12 Apr 2020)

There's also a thing about doing "segments" as fast as possible. Some are only a couple of hundred yards long and are flat. It's moronic.

Then there are the people who actually put "KOM" in their username, only eclipsed in the knobber stakes by the guy who shouted from behind, "Elite coming through!" on last year's Dunwich Dynamo. We laughed so much, we nearly fell off


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## newfhouse (12 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮
> 
> Are cyclists recording and sharing their performance data from every ride? Doesn’t sound very relaxing, just over competitive. I suppose that’s the world we now live in.


Competitive for some but not all. When I restarted cycling I found it a great motivator. Now it’s just a harmless habit.


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## Jody (12 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮



A GPS based digital odometer where you can share your rides with others. 

You can make as much or as little out of it as you like.

Some love it. Some loath it. Some use it to track their own rides. Some go all out and get overly competetive.


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## Mattk50 (12 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> And this was the M25 yesterday looking towards Jct 8. I didn’t risk riding it, tempting as it was.
> View attachment 514500


Anyone up for a M25 circuit?


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## Gunk (12 Apr 2020)

Jody said:


> A GPS based digital odometer where you can share your rides with others.
> 
> You can make as much or as little out of it as you like.
> 
> Some love it. Some loath it. Some use it to track their own rides. Some go all out and get overly competetive.



Not for me I’m afraid, I just like the ride, I have no interest in how fast I’ve completed the distance. I just use a basic app on my iPhone to plot the route and measure the distance.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2020)

Should we ban driving of private cars excluding NHS workers? A 400 mile round trip for fishing! Looking at time they were stopped they were clearly hoping to sneak by during the night.

Does the Daily Fail have this one?

Coronavirus: Family fined for London to Devon fishing trip

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52261055


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## snorri (12 Apr 2020)

.


Gunk said:


> I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮


Possibly....... Try to think of it as the modern equivalent of the pencilled list of numbers on your dad's shed wall that you added to from your Cyclometer reading after every cycle trip as a young lad. 
You didn't have a Cyclometer?


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## Gunk (12 Apr 2020)

snorri said:


> You didn't have a Cyclometer?



I was a child of the 1970’s of course I did!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Apr 2020)

STRAVA is Swedish for "Strive"


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## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2020)

Mattk50 said:


> Anyone up for a M25 circuit?


That was my main aim for this year. I've got the route planned and everything. I doubt it will happen now.  Next year maybe.


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## mjr (12 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> STRAVA is Swedish for "Strive"


Oh, I thought it was Latin for "Steve"


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## mjr (12 Apr 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> Then there are the people who actually put "KOM" in their username, only eclipsed in the knobber stakes


Knobber of the month?



> by the guy who shouted from behind, "Elite coming through!" on last year's Dunwich Dynamo. We laughed so much, we nearly fell off


Laughing too much to ask why he was wearing that variety of condom?


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Apr 2020)

Mattk50 said:


> Anyone up for a M25 circuit?



Did that a couple of years ago as in complete circuit outside M25. LONDON Orbital 300km audax.


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## ianrauk (12 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Did that a couple of years ago as in complete circuit outside M25. LONDON Orbital 300km audax.


Did it in Jamuary with @Trickedem & @rb58


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## rogerzilla (12 Apr 2020)

The Birmingham Outer Circle (A4040) would be nice at the moment. 32 miles, no need to stop, and it's really hard to get lost. I used to do it on Sunday mornings before Sunday shopping ruined them for cycling.


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## I like Skol (12 Apr 2020)

Manchester M60 loop - www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-years-day-ride-around-mancunia.145215


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## anothersam (12 Apr 2020)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> STRAVA is Swedish for "Strive"


It could also be the name of a competitively priced armchair from IKEA.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (12 Apr 2020)

anothersam said:


> It could also be the name of a competitively priced armchair from IKEA.


Currently feet up on a Malm bed frame 😂


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## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Did that a couple of years ago as in complete circuit outside M25. LONDON Orbital 300km audax.


2018? If so, I stamped your card at Hildenborough.


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## I like Skol (12 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> 2018? If so, I stamped your card at Hildenborough.


Is that a euphemism?


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## Dogtrousers (12 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Is that a euphemism?


Hildenborough. Know wot I mean?


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## Venod (13 Apr 2020)

Some more cyclist bashing from The Sunday Times.

The comments are the most interesting bits.

https://road.cc/content/news/sunday...RmjJ0aoZj5GjRhwpwHUebZSD3Ja83K7vwAginkJNFC6Qc


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## nickyboy (13 Apr 2020)

Venod said:


> Some more cyclist bashing from The Sunday Times.
> 
> The comments are the most interesting bits.
> 
> https://road.cc/content/news/sunday...RmjJ0aoZj5GjRhwpwHUebZSD3Ja83K7vwAginkJNFC6Qc


All those cyclists saying that so long as they don't go near other people then it's ok to ride as far as they like are failing to see the bigger picture, just like pleasure motorcyclists are doing

It chips away at the edifice of compliance. Just another small thing that encourages people to think "well if X people are doing Y then, stuff it, I'm having a BBQ and inviting some friends round. Why should I fully comply if they don't?"

We are three weeks in to a much longer period of lockdown (my view is that it's a minimum six weeks more before there will be any relaxing at all). It relies on compliance and self policing to work. The nightmare scenario is that the levels of compliance start to reduce as time goes on. Every little example of non compliance like riding a long way or going for a blast on your motorbike makes that more likely


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## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> All those cyclists saying that so long as they don't go near other people then it's ok to ride as far as they like are failing to see the bigger picture, just like pleasure motorcyclists are doing
> 
> It chips away at the edifice of compliance. Just another small thing that encourages people to think "well if X people are doing Y then, stuff it, I'm having a BBQ and inviting some friends round. Why should I fully comply if they don't?"
> 
> We are three weeks in to a much longer period of lockdown (my view is that it's a minimum six weeks more before there will be any relaxing at all). It relies on compliance and self policing to work. The nightmare scenario is that the levels of compliance start to reduce as time goes on. Every little example of non compliance like riding a long way or going for a blast on your motorbike makes that more likely


Cyclists won't affect the "compliance" of others unless they know about it. BBQs are a little different in that respect!
If I WAS on Strava I would definitely put any long rides on as Private. No point in provoking arguments, we have enough already ...


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## nickyboy (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Cyclists won't affect the "compliance" of others unless they know about it. BBQs are a little different in that respect!
> If I WAS on Strava I would definitely put any long rides on as Private. No point in provoking arguments, we have enough already ...


There are loads of cyclists on Strava who make all their rides public. It would be really easy for a reporter to analyse these and produce a piece that showed non compliance (in that, say, a ride of four hours+ could never be considered "normal exercise")

More generally, the government are receiving phone data so, regardless of whether a cyclist is on Strava or not, whether they make rides public or not, they know the overall levels of compliance. It would be very easy, for example, to use phone records to see how many cyclists are riding four hours+


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## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

Seems to me people are getting their knickers in a twist for no reason - the numbers of cyclists going out for 100-mile rides is an infinitesimal percentage of the population (hell, it's a tiny proportion of the _cycling_ population!) and comparing a four hour solo ride on the lanes with someone having a BBQ and inviting friends around is just absurd. It's not even comparing apples and oranges, but more like comparing elephants and tweezers - there's no relationship at all.


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## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

Surely it is Strava which is being irresponsible and is largely responsible for this issue and its' subsequent reporting in the media? One of Strava's first actions in the crisis should have been to shut down all challenges.

The distance over a month in itself is no big deal as it's only 25/day - a reasonable amount of, in some cases little, exercise for plenty of riders. I'm expecting to complete 750-800 and all I'm doing is local, close to home circuits of +/- 30 miles.

It's not especially exciting but helps break up the day. I'm missing the 70-90+ rides we would have been doing. Missing the company of my cycle buddies and club members. Missing the cafe. I know I've cut my activity to a reasonable and acceptable level given the circumstances. Anything else would be to take the mick.

Ignorant journalists understand none of this and there is little we can do about it.

I was disappointed yesterday by the number of pairs I saw who clearly don't live together - unless there's been a significant increase in the numbers of gay cyclists.


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## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

That's another thing - people go on about seeing people who "clearly" don't live together. How do you know that? You don't. It's your hunch, that's all. Yes, they may be gay. Or they my be housemates. For a long time I shared a house with a lesbian couple - the three of us could quite legitimately have walked, run or cycled together and yet if you had seen a middle aged man and two middle-aged women out together you would be quick to judge and condemn - and you'd be utterly wrong.


----------



## nickyboy (13 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> That's another thing - people go on about seeing people who "clearly" don't live together. How do you know that? You don't. It's your hunch, that's all. Yes, they may be gay. Or they my be housemates. For a long time I shared a house with a lesbian couple - the three of us could quite legitimately have walked, run or cycled together and yet if you had seen a middle aged man and two middle-aged women out together you would be quick to judge and condemn - and you'd be utterly wrong.


Spotted them on my rides, looked on their Strava, started from different locations. It's dead easy to use the tech. These are people I've called out on my rides. It's happening.


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## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> That's another thing - people go on about seeing people who "clearly" don't live together. How do you know that? You don't. It's your hunch, that's all. Yes, they may be gay. Or they my be housemates. For a long time I shared a house with a lesbian couple - the three of us could quite legitimately have walked, run or cycled together and yet if you had seen a middle aged man and two middle-aged women out together you would be quick to judge and condemn - and you'd be utterly wrong.


I'm not judging anyone, it's a little joke, one that is doing the rounds quite widely.

Please don't be overly sensitive when it was clear all I made was a very small joke.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> It would be very easy, for example, to use phone records to see how many cyclists are riding four hours+



The government is being given anonymised, aggregated data by the telecom networks, not specific numbers linked to preferred mode of transport.


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## BigMeatball (13 Apr 2020)

I don't get strava either. I used it for a couple of months, then was tired of this social convention of giving kudos to your pals' activities because they gave kudos to mine. Screw that


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## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

Of course it is happening. There is never going to be 100% compliance on anything. Murders still take places with depressing regularity despite there being clearly established laws against it. But acting like Inspector Javert - spotting people and then going home and tracing them on Strava (and assuming that you guessed correctly in that they are on Strava) and tracing them to their supposed starting locations - accomplishes what exactly? Especially since if they maintain a two-metre separation they are legit anyway.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I'm not judging anyone, it's a little joke, one that is doing the rounds quite widely.
> 
> Please don't be overly sensitive when it was clear all I made was a very small joke.


I'm not being sensitive about jokes - but rather concerned about the unwholesome atmosphere of hostility, distrust, self-righteousness and snap judgements of others that is descending on society as a whole. (And I hasten to add I am not directing any of this at you personally, not at all, but rather at the overall tenor of many of the posts on here)


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## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I'm not being sensitive about jokes - but rather concerned about the atmosphere of hostility, distrust and snap judgements of others that is descending on society as a whole.


OK, apologies I misunderstood. If your concern relates to Lockdown it contradicts my experience but if you are thinking more widely, and outside of this crisis, I would fully agree with you.


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## daverave (13 Apr 2020)

I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?

I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!


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## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

No official guidance at all - just Gove's offhand remark which some people have chosen to regard as Gospel, delivered from on high. I go out for two hours, on lonely quiet lanes before dawn, just as I always have. I encounter virtually no one. My ride this morning:


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## vickster (13 Apr 2020)

daverave said:


> I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?
> 
> I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!


No but the guidance is to minimise time outside, so interpret that as you will


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Apr 2020)

We've done this before chaps and chapesses. Unless you specifically see riders starting and stopping rides in different places (which is borderline creepy and not foolproof) then you simply don't know if 3 blokes, 4 women or whatever combination out riding don't live together.

I doubt anyone will need to carry proof of sexual orientation anytime soon 🌈


----------



## Mo1959 (13 Apr 2020)

daverave said:


> I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?
> 
> I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!


It’s been a bit ambiguous from the start. I also remember him or one of the others saying the amount of exercise you would normally take.


----------



## Phaeton (13 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> The government is being given anonymised, aggregated data by the telecom networks, not specific numbers linked to preferred mode of transport.


Guess or fact & if fact how do you know?


----------



## snorri (13 Apr 2020)

Perhaps there should be a campaign to get more people out for a period of daily exercise of their choice in order to deflect the spotlight off cyclists.
There must be more healthy outdoor pursuits other than running, walking and cycling which can be engaged in without breaching present guidelines.
Any suggestions?


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## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

This is all futile really. There will always be some riding too far. It pales into insignificance against joyriders and second-homers including the former Scottish CMO and now the PM. Worrying about tiny numbers of cyclists is like fretting about a rural garden bonfire while our cities burn!


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## Venod (13 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> I don't get strava either. I used it for a couple of months, then was tired of this social convention of giving kudos to your pals' activities because they gave kudos to mine. Screw that



You do know giving kudos isn't compulsary, having followers/following people isn't compulsary, making your rides public isn't compulsary.


----------



## Phaeton (13 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> This is all futile really.


Agreed


mjr said:


> There will always be some riding too far.


As it currently stands there is no limit, so there cannot be 'too far'


mjr said:


> It pales into insignificance against joyriders and second-homers including the former Scottish CMO and now the PM.


I don't understand this one, if I was lucky enough to have 2 homes, what difference does it make which one I spend my time in?


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## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Agreed
> As it currently stands there is no limit, so there cannot be 'too far'
> I don't understand this one, if I was lucky enough to have 2 homes, what difference does it make which one I spend my time in?


I feel it depends on the nature of the second home. If it's a holiday home in an area where these are significantly prevalent it has the potential to increase pressure on local resources.

Two homes in say London and Oxford are unlikely to create such a problem.


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## BigMeatball (13 Apr 2020)

daverave said:


> I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?
> 
> I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!



No guidance on time limit allowance. It's really up to the individuals and their common sense: most cyclists are being cautious and reducing their rides, some others are just not giving a damn. 

Personally, my rides now are 50% shorter than normal. Feels like a good compromise for me.


----------



## BigMeatball (13 Apr 2020)

Venod said:


> You do know giving kudos isn't compulsary, having followers/following people isn't compulsary, making your rides public isn't compulsary.



It's "compulsory"


----------



## Julia9054 (13 Apr 2020)

snorri said:


> Perhaps there should be a campaign to get more people out for a period of daily exercise of their choice in order to deflect the spotlight off cyclists.
> There must be more healthy outdoor pursuits other than running, walking and cycling which can be engaged in without breaching present guidelines.
> Any suggestions?


My lad takes his crash mat down the road to the side of the old railway bridge and does some bouldering


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## lane (13 Apr 2020)

Staffordshire police have requested the public stop reporting breaches of the guidelines because they cannot cope with the number of reports coming in.


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## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Agreed
> As it currently stands there is no limit, so there cannot be 'too far'


Legally no, but I hope we'd agree that if you managed to spread the bug between areas, that was too far. We have no way of knowing what that is yet.


> I don't understand this one, if I was lucky enough to have 2 homes, what difference does it make which one I spend my time in?


Public service provision, including NHS, is allocated according to primary residence. This has long been a subject of complaint from tourism-heavy areas where hospitals struggle to cope at peak UK second-home use times like New Year, Mayday and September.


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## lane (13 Apr 2020)

I have relatives live in Cornwall and it is a real concern there because of pressure on hospitals.


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## Adam4868 (13 Apr 2020)

Seems like in this pandemic everyone needs someone to blame for something.Im still of the opinion that the bigger picture is we as the public are doing pretty good and trying our best.Looks like the goverment need to take some responsibility for there part in our response.


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## Phaeton (13 Apr 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> It's "compulsory"


No it's not, 


mjr said:


> Public service provision, including NHS, is allocated according to primary residence. This has long been a subject of complaint from tourism-heavy areas where hospitals struggle to cope at peak UK second-home use times like New Year, Mayday and September.


Sorry but this is grasping at straws looking for something to complain about, the amount to people who have 2nd homes & by being at the 2nd home they are potentially relieving pressure from the 1st home area. This is a non issue, granted somebody who was travelling from London to St Austell every 2 days is just plain stupid, but leaving London & staying in St Austell for the duration is not a problem, as long as once they are there they following distancing rules.


----------



## Mo1959 (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Sorry but this is grasping at straws looking for something to complain about, the amount to people who have 2nd homes & by being at the 2nd home they are potentially relieving pressure from the 1st home area. This is a non issue, granted somebody who was travelling from London to St Austell every 2 days is just plain stupid, but leaving London & staying in St Austell for the duration is not a problem, as long as once they are there they following distancing rules.


Yes. I think this makes sense for those fortunate to own more than one home. Choose which one you want to see out this period in and stay there..........no running back and forward.


----------



## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> No it's not, :
> by being at the 2nd home they are potentially relieving pressure from the 1st home area. This is a non issue,


Ok I'm sure you know better than the people who planned NHS provision on the basis of first homes and the hospitals in places like Cornwall, Carmarthen and Cumbria can cope just fine if all holiday homes are unexpectedly occupied during a pandemic (!)


----------



## vickster (13 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I feel it depends on the nature of the second home. If it's a holiday home in an area where these are significantly prevalent it has the potential to increase pressure on local resources.
> 
> Two homes in say London and Oxford are unlikely to create such a problem.


The PM would have been transported to Chequers in a car, presumably on medical advice to recuperate somewhere quiet away from the centre of Govt. It‘s not like he has gone to the countryside on a jolly like the Scottish CMO (twice) or the second homers to the Suffolk coast


----------



## geocycle (13 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> This is all futile really. There will always be some riding too far. It pales into insignificance against joyriders and second-homers including the former Scottish CMO and now the PM. Worrying about tiny numbers of cyclists is like fretting about a rural garden bonfire while our cities burn!



Quite, I’ve moderated my riding to daily 20 milers locally and i will not be heading out for a long ride in the Dales anytime soon as I’d not want to carry anything into another area. I’ve also cancelled my b and b for the tour de yorkshire even though it is in cycling range.


----------



## vickster (13 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Ok I'm sure you know better than the people who planned NHS provision on the basis of first homes and the hospitals in places like Cornwall, Carmarthen and Cumbria can cope just fine if all holiday homes are unexpectedly occupied during a pandemic (!)


Chequers is about an hour from London though, it’s in Buckinghamshire (which beings with a B not a C)


----------



## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Seriously, you really are on one aren't you, are you just trolling for a responses or do you actually believe the nonsense you are spouting?


I could ask the same. Well done. You roped me into that well and proper.

Anyway, back to the general point: people cycling from their homes is a tiny tiny problem compared to many of the risky behaviours currently seen out there. And the newspapers are being shooty self-gratification artist daffodils.


----------



## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Chequers is about an hour from London though, it’s in Buckinghamshire (which beings with a B not a C)


Served by Stoke Mandeville rather than St Thomas's, whose capacity is presumably based on the number of primary residences in Bucks not London?


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> Spain and Italy have banned outdoor exercise altogether. It'll be happening here soon, so if you have a dog I hope you have a garden.


Don't know about Italy, but, in Spain (and France), dog walking is still allowed.


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a car overtaking a cyclist have to abide by the 2m social distancing rule?


If only


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> It is relevant as you have decided to flaunt what you have been asked to do, *you have been asked to limit you exercise to 1 hour,* you have all decided to ignore that as you clearly know better & double the amount of time. The relevance of urban/rural is that in an urban scenario your risk of contact or the potential to spread the infection is likely to be greater due to the greater risk of contact.
> I'm not surprised less chance of being identified



Official link for this claim? Please...


----------



## Mike_P (13 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Does a car overtaking a cyclist have to abide by the 2m social distancing rule?


If the windows are down yes although few seem to realise. Was turning right giving way to a car turning right into the road I was exiting and the driver passed by well within 2m with his window down. In contrast on another occasion I stopped at the top of a climb and was just about to set off when a car started to emerge from a drive on the left just in the front, the driver waved me on because he was turning right.
I am limiting my rides to a hour and a bit, the bit usually dependent on how bad the headwinds are, through the simple expediant of taking a single water bottle and nothing to eat. Means the cake tin typically gets ransacked when I get back


----------



## Phaeton (13 Apr 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Official link for this claim? Please...


Go back & read again please....￼


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Go back & read again please....￼


I did and it still says “ you’ve been asked to limit your exercise to one hour... “

And still the question remains, what is the official link for this claim?

a rhetorical question, actually, as the answer is well known. There is no official link or rule specifying the length in distance or duration in time for exercise.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Try again, we both know the answer, now take your wooden spoon & do something useful with it!


I’ve already made a batch of oatmeal cookies today, thank you - and most sustaining they were, too, on my perfectly legitimate two hour ride through the countryside.


----------



## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Yes. I think this makes sense for those fortunate to own more than one home. Choose which one you want to see out this period in and stay there..........no running back and forward.


I feel you are correct provided the numbers aren't huge. I believe there are areas, I can't name them, where second home ownership reaches 40/50% of the housing stock. As these homes are not used full time local services, in the broadest possible sense, may not be adequate if all the owners descended on an area.


----------



## alicat (13 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Staffordshire police have requested the public stop reporting breaches of the guidelines because they cannot cope with the number of reports coming in.



I can believe that. I'm not really seeing much evidence of the lockdown being observed round here.


----------



## srw (13 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Served by Stoke Mandeville rather than St Thomas's, whose capacity is presumably based on the number of primary residences in Bucks not London?


London, being a very crowded city, is likely to have many more cases per head than the towns and villages of Buckinghamshire.


----------



## lane (13 Apr 2020)

I think in Cornwall there was genuine concern but think it included possible use of hotels, b and b and caravans which are not allowed now anyway. Possibly second home ownership on its own not so much of an issue I don't know.


----------



## lane (13 Apr 2020)

alicat said:


> I can believe that. I'm not really seeing much evidence of the lockdown being observed round here.



Where I live in would say it is mainly observed but still lots of people reporting people for not observing it.


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> It's Screwfix, they were a little slow to get things into place, but they now seem to got most of it covered, they're actually doing a roaring trade, *B&Q*, Wickes etc. have all closed down I think so they are the logical option.



Our B&Q is operating a "click and Collect" service.

It is extremely busy, with a few staff running about, "picking" items and placing so customer can pick up, without infringing the 2Metre zone.


----------



## DaveReading (13 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> All those cyclists saying that so long as they don't go near other people then it's ok to ride as far as they like are failing to see the bigger picture, just like pleasure motorcyclists are doing
> 
> It chips away at the edifice of compliance. Just another small thing that encourages people to think "well if X people are doing Y then, stuff it, I'm having a BBQ and inviting some friends round. Why should I fully comply if they don't?"



How does that work, then ?

The very few people I typically pass on my rides have no way of knowing whether I've done 3 miles or 30. How could they ?


----------



## Skibird (13 Apr 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Our B&Q is operating a "click and Collect" service.
> 
> It is extremely busy, with a few staff running about, "picking" items and placing so customer can pick up, without infringing the 2Metre zone.


B&Q doing click and collect, and was quite busy there over the weekend.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

be craeful wher


DaveReading said:


> How does that work, then ?
> 
> The very few people I typically pass on my rides have no way of knowing whether I've done 3 miles or 30. How could they ?



The people on your ride may not know, but the people in your street may.


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Go back & read again please....￼


OK. 

I have read again. I ASSUME the reference to 1 hour exercise is directed at the particular cycle club suggestion. 

Fair enough, but, it is not official advice, or, an official directive.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Apr 2020)

daverave said:


> *I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?*
> 
> I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!


Yes it has*. No there hasn't (or maybe there has … sort of).

Gove made the comment you note above. . Some people think we should take that as "official guidance", some don't.

* And continues to be. Over … and … over.

If you have a local hill then 45 min or so of reps would probably be "worth it" if you are looking for a significant amount of effort expenditure. But I imagine the curtains would be twitching pretty frantically after about 20 min. I did an hour on my turbo this morning and that felt "worth it", but I find I can get more intense exercise done in a shorter time on the turbo. I do realise that I'm lucky to have a turbo next to a door I can open to get plenty of fresh air in.


----------



## mjr (13 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> London, being a very crowded city, is likely to have many more cases per head than the towns and villages of Buckinghamshire.


And it also has more critical care beds per head than the national average, even more now with Excel.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> How does that work, then ?
> 
> The very few people I typically pass on my rides have no way of knowing whether I've done 3 miles or 30. How could they ?






screenman said:


> be craeful wher
> 
> 
> The people on your ride may not know, but the people in your street may.


Wot??
Are they in MI6? Planting trackers on bikes??

#LockdownFever


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Wot??
> Are they in MI6? Planting trackers on bikes??
> 
> #LockdownFever


It's a bit of a giveaway if they see you setting off at 09:27 and don't see you return until 20:36!


----------



## ozboz (13 Apr 2020)

Skibird said:


> B&Q doing click and collect, and was quite busy there over the weekend.


I used to work as a contractor in B&Q stores all over UK, as I remember there was serious talk of these stores moving toward click n collect , I would imagine the bean counters of that company are looking with great interest at what is happening during this period ,


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> I used to work as a contractor in B&Q stores all over UK, as I remember there was serious talk of these stores moving toward click n collect , I would imagine the bean counters of that company are looking with great interest at what is happening during this period ,


Their *website* has had a 1hour Q all weekend!


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Wot??
> Are they in MI6? Planting trackers on bikes??
> 
> #LockdownFever



I do not think you are getting my point about cycle haters, not to worry I am sure others have.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I do not think you are getting my point about cycle haters, not to worry I am sure others have.


Ah ok, that is a different problem: haters continuing to hate. 
Just smile sweetly!


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (13 Apr 2020)

nickyboy said:


> We are three weeks in to a much longer period of lockdown (my view is that it's a minimum six weeks more before there will be any relaxing at all). It relies on compliance and self policing to work. The nightmare scenario is that the levels of compliance start to reduce as time goes on. Every little example of non compliance like riding a long way or going for a blast on your motorbike makes that more likely


I'd give the government until the end of this month, before I reckon compliance will start to plummet. If Johnson turns around in the next week or so and says "right, on 30th April, it's over. Everything re-opens on 1st May, pubs open, business open, school open, football back on, go out and enjoy yourself, and thanks for what you're doing to help in the meantime" then he'll keep the vast majority on board in the meantime.
On the other hand, if they keep trying to extend this disruption because they're still getting a few thousand more cases a day and a few hundred more deaths a day, whilst more people lose their jobs and more business goes bust and it really starts to feck up the economy in a big way, people are going to start to think the collateral damage is worse than the virus itself. Plus, you are just not going to be able to keep 60 million people indoors once we really start to move into the summer season. What we're in at the moment is a honeymoon period during which the government are drawing on a reserve of public goodwill. It isn't going to last for month after month.
Trump in the USA understands this, even if his main consideration is getting re-elected. You can't impose this sort of regime on an open-ended basis in any democratic society. Even China wouldn't get away with it as it would eventually bankrupt them. There has to be a clearly defined end date and it can't be more than a few weeks or the lockdown will end itself anyway through mass non-compliance.


----------



## DaveReading (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> It's a bit of a giveaway if they see you setting off at 09:27 and don't see you return until 20:36!



Come to think of it, I have seen several of my neighbours leaning out their windows with stopwatches when I set out on a ride, and again when I return.

Or possibly calendars.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> Come to think of it, I have seen several of my neighbours leaning out their windows with stopwatches when I set out on a ride, and again when I return.
> 
> Or possibly calendars.


This is why my rides are all under 2h 
Or
Over 24.
Chances are they will have forgotten when I left,or doubt their own record-keeping.


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I don’t understand this Strava thing, I’m probably too old 😮
> 
> Are cyclists recording and sharing their performance data from every ride? Doesn’t sound very relaxing, just over competitive. I suppose that’s the world we now live in.


I don’t use Strava, but, I do use a similar App to record my cycling and walking activity. Don’t share it with anyone (except Mrs @BoldonLad). It not for competitive reasons, but, simply to give an indication of how much activity i do (or, perhaps, more relevant, don’t do).


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (13 Apr 2020)

Most of my neighbours aren't taking the social distancing advice very seriously at all. The Asians especially are still having all the usual groups of friends & family coming and going, and there have been groups of people sitting out in back gardens eating and drinking all over the Bank Holiday. No parties or music, it's fairly discreet, but it's pretty much business as usual for a lot of people already, and this is only three weeks from the start!


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Seems to me people are getting their knickers in a twist for no reason - the numbers of cyclists going out for 100-mile rides is an infinitesimal percentage of the population (hell, it's a tiny proportion of the _cycling_ population!) and comparing a four hour solo ride on the lanes with someone having a BBQ and inviting friends around is just absurd. It's not even comparing apples and oranges, but more like comparing elephants and tweezers - there's no relationship at all.


Indeed. I shudder to think what life would be like in the U.K., if ever we had a Stasi, judging from this, and other threads.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

The thing i


BoldonLad said:


> Indeed. I shudder to think what life would be like in the U.K., if ever we had a Stasi, judging from this, and other threads.



Out of interest did you read this week about the cyclist in Greetwell quarry?


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> The thing i
> 
> 
> Out of interest did you read this week about the cyclist in Greetwell quarry?


Not that I recall.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Not that I recall.



Took a helicopter, fire engine, ambulance and more to recover him, I think maybe they could have been doing better things with their time. It will be easy to find.


----------



## Soltydog (13 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> No but the guidance is to minimise time outside, so interpret that as you will



My interpretation is that once you have decided on your route, to minimise your time outside you must pedal as fast as you can 



ColinJ said:


> It's a bit of a giveaway if they see you setting off at 09:27 and don't see you return until 20:36!



Last week my neighbours could have seen me setting off on my bike at 11:30 & not return until 12 hours later, around 23:30  & I still only managed 32 miles in that time 🤔


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> It's a bit of a giveaway if they see you setting off at 09:27 and don't see you return until 20:36!



Just means they missed your first return from shopping on your bike or that you were NHS volunteering or working a shift at work. It means nothing.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)




----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

Soltydog said:


> My interpretation is that once you have decided on your route, to minimise your time outside you must pedal as fast as you can
> 
> 
> 
> Last week my neighbours could have seen me setting off on my bike at 11:30 & not return until 12 hours later, around 23:30  & I still only managed 32 miles in that time 🤔




Still at work then, well, wish I was.


----------



## Soltydog (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Still at work then, well, wish I was.



Yes, I'm quite lucky. It allows me to get out & have a bit of normality 👍 Days off can drag a bit now though, I'm trying to restrict cycling outdoors to maximum 2 hours, even though living rural I hardly meet a soul whilst out sometimes. I'm spending more time than usual on zwift group rides, at least there's a bit of social interaction there


----------



## BoldonLad (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Took a helicopter, fire engine, ambulance and more to recover him, I think maybe they could have been doing better things with their time. It will be easy to find.


Not sure I see the connection with duration or distance or nosey neighbours ?


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> Not sure I see the connection with duration or distance or nosey neighbours ?



Just going off at a tangent really and pointing out not all rides are as safe as we would like them to be. Scenes like this will give people more ammunition.

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/04...fter-impaled-neck-accident-at-lincoln-quarry/


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Just means they missed your first return from shopping on your bike...


I'm not saying that they would be right - I quite often do one short ride to the shops and one longer ride later; I'm just saying that nosey neighbours would have enough information to make 1 plus 1 equal 3.74... 

I'm quite surprised that the government haven't yet suggested that if you walk/cycle/run to the shops then that is your daily exercise taken care of! If they did that then I would pick a 1 hour route to Lidl, rather than my 6 or 7 minute direct route.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

How often are you going to the shops?


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> How often are you going to the shops?


As often as necessary***.




*** Defined by me as 'to purchase what I need'. Bearing in mind that some things are only available on certain days due to stock shortages, and that my load capacity for any one trip is 35 litres (rucksack) and just over 10 kgs.


----------



## marshmella (13 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Most of my neighbours aren't taking the social distancing advice very seriously at all. The Asians especially are still having all the usual groups of friends & family coming and going, and there have been groups of people sitting out in back gardens eating and drinking all over the Bank Holiday. No parties or music, it's fairly discreet, but it's pretty much business as usual for a lot of people already, and this is only three weeks from
> 
> 
> SkipdiverJohn said:
> ...


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> As often as necessary***.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hopefully that is once a week, I know of idiots around here going daily.


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 Apr 2020)

All these rules cannot be policed properly, and the authorities know that.

They rely on people's common sense, acceptance of the guidelines and peer pressure to ensure that the large majority are complying. It does seem to be working and, in reality, these fairly isolated incidences of people blatantly ignoring the guidelines on exercise are probably not going to make a major difference to the progress of the virus. (I am not trying to minimise the problem but accepting that 100% compliance is not possible).

I am much more concerned about the flagrant abuse of social distancing in supermarkets, or young kids/teens hanging around in groups, which is far worse imo than any danger of infection caused by lone cyclists.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

]


screenman said:


> Just going off at a tangent really and pointing out not all rides are as safe as we would like them to be. Scenes like this will give people more ammunition.
> 
> https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/04...fter-impaled-neck-accident-at-lincoln-quarry/


Good advice. Most days in "peacetime" I do a ride with high risk of neck injury( or broken bones etc), knowing that our brilliant emergency services will sort me out if required.

It would be irresponsible to continue riding like that, so I appreciate the regular reminders from my cycling brethren.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> All these rules cannot be policed properly, and the authorities know that.
> 
> They rely on people's common sense, acceptance of the guidelines and peer pressure to ensure that the large majority are complying. It does seem to be working and, in reality, these fairly isolated incidences of people blatantly ignoring the guidelines on exercise are probably not going to make a major difference to the progress of the virus. (I am not trying to minimise the problem but accepting that 100% compliance is not possible).
> 
> I am much more concerned about the flagrant abuse of social distancing in supermarkets, or young kids/teens hanging around in groups, which is far worse imo than any danger of infection caused by lone cyclists.



Turkey has banned all under twenty and over 65 from leaving home.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (13 Apr 2020)

marshmella said:


> Today we had our local park closed for the foreseeable future due to non compliance of social distancing by some ignorant members of the public. Thanks for that you clots.



It’s funny how the authorities will close down parks because of overcrowding but when roads are overcrowded they build more.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

I should add I do agree with going out for a ride each day and keeping up the social distancing.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> Did it in Jamuary with @Trickedem & @rb58



Was that over three days, with overnight stops, think I saw it in the Strava feed.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Turkey has banned all under twenty and over 65 from leaving home.


Crikey! I better scratch them off my holiday plans then.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It’s funny how the authorities will close down parks because of overcrowding but when roads are overcrowded they build more.



Different times, and if you own a car you are as much of the problem as the rest of us.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Crikey! I better scratch them off my holiday plans then.



I do not think you will have an option for a good while. Shame for me as I am already booked and paid for September, which I doubt I will be going.


----------



## matticus (13 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It’s funny how the authorities will close down parks because of overcrowding but when roads are overcrowded they build more.


And they don't close the M4 for a week when a speeding driver wraps themselves round the central reservation.


----------



## Rusty Nails (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Hopefully that is once a week, I know of idiots around here going daily.



I prefer going 2/3 times a week to the local Co-op, which has less choice but a much more acceptable approach to social distancing, both from the shop staff and the customers acting responsibly. I no longer go to the nearest Morrisons or Sainsburys where the social distancing guidelines are not adhered to by a large number of idiot customers.


----------



## vickster (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> And they don't close the M4 for a week when a speeding driver wraps themselves round the central reservation.


Why would they?
Given stupidity or carelessness aren’t as contagious as Covid-19


----------



## ianrauk (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Was that over three days, with overnight stops, think I saw it in the Strava feed.


2 days


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Hopefully that is once a week, I know of idiots around here going daily.


No it is more often than that, but it isn't once a day, _not that it is any of your business_! 

Over the past 3 weeks it was thrice, once, thrice. Looking at what I have in the house now, I imagine it will be once, maybe twice this week. Just over once every 3 days for a month.

I can't carry enough shopping for a week on my back. And some days they are sold out of stuff that I need so another visit is required sooner rather than later.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

daverave said:


> I'm not sure if it has been covered here, but has there been any official guidance on the time limit allowed for cycling outside?
> 
> I note Gove's reponse here ""I would have thought that for most people, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness is appropriate." But, for me, a cycle ride of 30 minutes to 1 hour isn't really worth it!



Gove also made an off hand comment that the duration should be whatever you are used to. That doesn’t get posted quite so often though!


----------



## marshmella (13 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It’s funny how the authorities will close down parks because of overcrowding but when roads are overcrowded they build more.


It wasnt so much overcrowding as such it was blatant picnicking , sitting on benches taking in the sun and using the facilities which had the temporary fences around them.But i take your point on the roads.


----------



## Gunk (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> And they don't close the M4 for a week when a speeding driver wraps themselves round the central reservation.



Personally I think closing parks was a mistake.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> No it is more often than that, but it isn't once a day, _not that it is any of your business_!
> 
> Over the past 3 weeks it was thrice, once, thrice. Looking at what I have in the house now, I imagine it will be once, maybe twice this week. Just over once every 3 days for a month.
> 
> I can't carry enough shopping for a week on my back. And some days they are sold out of stuff that I need so another visit is required sooner rather than later.



Certainly not my business, I was though concerned for yours and other people health.


----------



## Mike_P (13 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I prefer going 2/3 times a week to the local Co-op, which has less choice but a much more acceptable approach to social distancing, both from the shop staff and the customers acting responsibly. I no longer go to the nearest Morrisons or Sainsburys where the social distancing guidelines are not adhered to by a large number of idiot customers.


My experience is that it's not customers generally that are the problem but staff in Asda and Sainsbury's. Morrisons was fine in that respect but only Aldi and Waitrose near me appear to be bothering to wipe trolley handles , no Tesco and have not been to Lidl. But still leaves big issues on matters such as self service tills, self scan devices and fridge/freezer doors.


----------



## marshmella (13 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> Personally I think closing parks was a mistake.


You're right . The vast majority were sound but i just knew it'd happen from what i've been seeing lately.


----------



## wajc (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Just going off at a tangent really and pointing out not all rides are as safe as we would like them to be. Scenes like this will give people more ammunition.
> 
> https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/04...fter-impaled-neck-accident-at-lincoln-quarry/



Unfortunately that is often the case especially for those who already have a hatred of cyclists. They'll be calls for us to stay at home in case we have an accident and have to involve the emergency services at this time of great pressure on the NHS.

Rather than cycling, It's actually a great opportunity to do some DIY

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-52260970

or may be not.


----------



## lazybloke (13 Apr 2020)

Brandane said:


> Are you sure they are all "riders"?
> In the days before I went and used the default setting of having all my rides private (to avoid the willy waving fraternity), I would sometimes look at flybys. If I actually looked at the persons ride, it turned out that the numbers also included joggers and walkers, who for reasons best known to themselves also use Strava.


Yeah, most of my rides are private so flyby is an occasional novelty. The final figures on Saturday were 167 riders out of 187 athletes.

Perfect blue skies today again, but much cooler and windier. Not nearly so many bikes out.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Their *website* has had a 1hour Q all weekend!



A one hour B & Q 😂


----------



## neil_merseyside (13 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'd give the government until the end of this month, before I reckon compliance will start to plummet. If Johnson turns around in the next week or so and says "right, on 30th April, it's over. Everything re-opens on 1st May, pubs open, business open, school open, football back on, go out and enjoy yourself, and thanks for what you're doing to help in the meantime" then he'll keep the vast majority on board in the meantime.
> On the other hand, if they keep trying to extend this disruption because they're still getting a few thousand more cases a day and a few hundred more deaths a day, whilst more people lose their jobs and more business goes bust and it really starts to feck up the economy in a big way, people are going to start to think the collateral damage is worse than the virus itself. Plus, you are just not going to be able to keep 60 million people indoors once we really start to move into the summer season. What we're in at the moment is a honeymoon period during which the government are drawing on a reserve of public goodwill. It isn't going to last for month after month.
> Trump in the USA understands this, even if his main consideration is getting re-elected. You can't impose this sort of regime on an open-ended basis in any democratic society. Even China wouldn't get away with it as it would eventually bankrupt them. There has to be a clearly defined end date and it can't be more than a few weeks or the lockdown will end itself anyway through mass non-compliance.



So let me get this right, you're effectively sacrificing the 70+ group (27% survival) and then the immuno compromised and pre-existing illness? It's what Trump's doing so it must be right??

Really?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> I used to work as a contractor in B&Q stores all over UK, as I remember there was serious talk of these stores moving toward click n collect , I would imagine the bean counters of that company are looking with great interest at what is happening during this period ,



The problem with click and collect for DIY is that most of us don’t know what a thingy ma jig is called. Plus a lot of purchases are emergency this failed / needs sorting so we want it straight away in our hands.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

wajc said:


> Unfortunately that is often the case especially for those who already have a hatred of cyclists. They'll be calls for us to stay at home in case we have an accident and have to involve the emergency services at this time of great pressure on the NHS.
> 
> Rather than cycling, It's actually a great opportunity to do some DIY
> 
> ...



Indeed people doing DIY at home increases eye injuries 1,800% impacting NHS.


----------



## neil_merseyside (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> The problem with click and collect for DIY is that most of us don’t know what a thingy ma jig is called. Plus a lot of purchases are emergency this failed / needs sorting so we want it straight away in our hands.


Screwfix are doing lockdown click and collect and the website photos should let you identify the correct sprongle widget.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Certainly not my business, I was though concerned for yours and other people health.


And suggesting that I might be one of those daily-shopping idiots you mentioned...?


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> And suggesting that I might be one of those daily-shopping idiots you mentioned...?



I was not suggesting you were one of them, I credit you with more intelligence than my 85 year old shopping twice as often as before brother. Who just received a huge order of toilet rolls from Italy, yep Italy.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

neil_merseyside said:


> Screwfix are doing lockdown click and collect and the website photos should let you identify the correct sprongle widget.



I suppose if the website is well organised to be able to drill down to what you want. People will have the time for it now.


----------



## Slick (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I do not think you will have an option for a good while. Shame for me as I am already booked and paid for September, which I doubt I will be going.


I'm booked up for 7 days golfing break in September with quite a few mates but fortunately only paid the guy in the group who is organising things for us. I still hope things will have returned to a more normal footing but like you fully expect to be holidaying at home this year.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I credit you with more intelligence than my 85 year old shopping twice as often as before brother. Who just received a huge order of toilet rolls from Italy, yep Italy.


Not very sensible, I admit, but it's good that he is (currently!) well enough to do his own shopping at his age.

The toilet roll panic was so odd... I had 6 rolls in when the crisis started and still have 5 left now! Lidl had none available for nearly a month but they seem to be okay now. I had intended to buy another pack when they finally reappeared but there doesn't seem any point and... if I DID then I would have to leave something else off the shopping list because 1/3 of my rucksack would be taken up and I would have to make (*gasp* ) an otherwise unnecessary extra trip to the shops!


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (13 Apr 2020)

neil_merseyside said:


> So let me get this right, you're effectively sacrificing the 70+ group (27% survival) and then the immuno compromised and pre-existing illness? It's what Trump's doing so it must be right??
> 
> Really?



What I'm saying is that the lockdown is not going to hold for months to come, regardless of whether health officials and scientists would like it to. That's the reality of the situation. I see groups of people, mainly youngsters, congregating and ignoring the rules already, and as time goes on it can only get more widespread and more blatant. Lockdown has got a very limited shelf life, after which it will either get ended by the government to save face/prevent economic armageddon, or it will be ended by significant parts of the population simply ignoring it. You might be willing to stay in half the year and lose your job, millions of others will simply not accept that scenario.


----------



## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> As often as necessary***.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If by this you mean you'll use shopping as a reason to ride you're putting yourself in greater danger.

The places to avoid are supermarkets, they are not places to visit as an excuse for a bike ride.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I was not suggesting you were one of them, I credit you with more intelligence than my 85 year old shopping twice as often as before brother. Who just received a huge order of toilet rolls from Italy, yep Italy.



It’s really his choice given his age, likely years left, and the likelihood no vaccine for some time. Chris Whitty said as much about the choices of the elderly approaching natural end of life, about two weeks back. Chris Whitty didn’t have a problem with it.


----------



## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

Mike_P said:


> My experience is that it's not customers generally that are the problem but staff in Asda and Sainsbury's. Morrisons was fine in that respect but only Aldi and Waitrose near me appear to be bothering to wipe trolley handles , no Tesco and have not been to Lidl. But still leaves big issues on matters such as self service tills, self scan devices and fridge/freezer doors.


Locally Tesco and Lidl both provide a spray and paper towels to clean whatever they wish. I do the trolley and my hands when I enter the store and my hands again after loading the car boot but before getting in the car.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s really his choice given his age, likely years left, and the likelihood no vaccine for some time. Chris Whitty said as much about the choices of the elderly about two weeks back. Chris Whitty didn’t have a problem with it.



Did he say go shopping twice as often as normal? If he did I missed it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Did he say go shopping twice as often as normal? If he did I missed it.



It’s your brother‘s choice not yours


----------



## lane (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s really his choice given his age, likely years left, and the likelihood no vaccine for some time. Chris Whitty said as much about the choices of the elderly approaching natural end of life, about two weeks back. Chris Whitty didn’t have a problem with it.



Except the whole point is to limit demand on the NHS and limit risks to Doctors, Nurses and others so its not quite that simple.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Except the whole point is to limit demand on the NHS and limit risks to Doctors, Nurses and others so its not quite that simple.



Again in that regard he can choose not to go to hospital if he falls ill. As we can we all. We don’t know what his brother‘s thoughts on the matter are.


----------



## Mike_P (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> The toilet roll panic was so odd... I had 6 rolls in when the crisis started and still have 5 left now! Lidl had none available for nearly a month but they seem to be okay now.


I've always bought a large pack (obviously when shopping by car) and always buy another pack when one has been opened so seem to have avoided the panic as still the newest pack is unopened but once it is I will go in search of another.


----------



## lane (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Again in that regard he can choose not to go to hospital if he falls ill. As we can we all.



I suppose so yes


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s your brother‘s choice not yours



to spread the virus? I agree it is his choice but one I have made it clear I do not agree with, we are not only staying in for our health.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> to spread the virus? I agree it is his choice but one I have made it clear I do not agree with, we are not only staying in for our health.



I am sure you’ve disagreed throughout your life. You are not his keeper nor a moral compass for him.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s really his choice given his age, likely years left, and the likelihood no vaccine for some time. Chris Whitty said as much about the choices of the elderly approaching natural end of life, about two weeks back. Chris Whitty didn’t have a problem with it.



I think his wife may have a say in matters as well.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I am sure you’ve disagreed throughout your life. You are not his keeper nor a moral compass for him.



I agree what are your thoughts on people not doing as advised?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I think his wife may have a day in matters as well.



I am sure she has had her say as have you. It’s still his choice.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> If by this you mean you'll use shopping as a reason to ride you're putting yourself in greater danger.
> 
> The places to avoid are supermarkets, they are not places to visit as an excuse for a bike ride.


Oh, FFS...! 

I do not drive. I have _never _driven. I live 1.5 km from the supermarket. I have the choice of _walking _to and from the shops or _cycling _to and from the shops. So, that would be a 5 minute bike ride on roads where I do _NOT _have to pass people closely, or a 15-20 minute walk on pavements where I sometimes _DO_ have to pass people closely. Which would _YOU _say is safer? 

I go to the shop at times when it is not busy. There is often only one checkout operating at that time but there are so few people shopping that either _one _person is ahead of me (AT A DISTANCE OF SEVERAL METRES!!!!) or _nobody _is and I get through straight away.

Before you suggest _combining _my bike rides and shopping trips... For shopping I carry a ferking great D-lock which weighs 1.6 kg and a 35 litre rucksack to carry my purchases. For bike rides, I carry a _small _backpack with tools etc in. I do not want to ride any further than necessary equipped for shopping and if I did, I would have to take up valuable space in my rucksack with the tools etc. which would mean that I couldn't carry as much shopping and would have to go shopping more often, so that isn't exactly a sensible plan.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I am sure she has had her say as have you. It’s still his choice.


I
So is he wrong going out more often than needed it not, seeing as it increases his chances of spreading this virus.


----------



## vickster (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I
> So is he wrong going out more often than needed it not, seeing as it increases his chances of spreading this virus.


What are your opinions on people with a terminal illness not having to shield if they prefer not to, which I think was more the point Chris Whitty made (or perhaps Jenny Harries)


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

Colinj, I thought you were on long term sick and had not worked for many years, does that not put you in high risk? Apologies if I am confusing you with another member.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> What are your opinions on people with a terminal illness not having to shield if they prefer not to, which I think was more the point Chris Whitty made (or perhaps Jenny Harries)



My brothers behaviour is an act of bravado, he is as fit as a butcher's dog.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> What are your opinions on people with a terminal illness not having to shield if they prefer not to, which I think was more the point Chris Whitty made (or perhaps Jenny Harries)



That I am struggling to come up with an answer to.


----------



## PaulSB (13 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Oh, FFS...!
> 
> I do not drive. I have _never _driven. I live 1.5 km from the supermarket. I have the choice of _walking _to and from the shops or _cycling _to and from the shops. So, that would be a 5 minute bike ride on roads where I do _NOT _have to pass people closely, or a 15-20 minute walk on pavements where I sometimes _DO_ have to pass people closely. Which would _YOU _say is safer?
> 
> ...



Colin there's no need to get upset. You said earlier you would design one hour rides to get to Lidl. This suggested to me you plan to purposefully turn shopping trips in to longer rides.



ColinJ said:


> I'm not saying that they would be right - I quite often do one short ride to the shops and one longer ride later; I'm just saying that nosey neighbours would have enough information to make 1 plus 1 equal 3.74...
> 
> I'm quite surprised that the government haven't yet suggested that if you walk/cycle/run to the shops then that is your daily exercise taken care of! If they did that then I would pick a 1 hour route to Lidl, rather than my 6 or 7 minute direct route.




The danger when shopping is the supermarket environment, not those in the queue, not who you may or may not pass in the street on a bike or walking - you can control those things. The big issue is who has been handling the goods prior to yourself.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I agree what are your thoughts on people not doing as advised?



I have no control over what they do. I control what I do. I find it necessary to let the things I can’t control flow around me. Stressing about things you can’t control is a sure fire way to illness in itself.

Advice is precisely that, even if strongly advised. So he is able to take the advice on board then decide what he wants to do. 

You could do a big shop for 30 tins of soup and make it last 2 months if you want to stay at home. That’d class as infrequently as possible. You done that or you still going out?

You see, you are entering a purity spiral with your brother.

A purity spiral occurs when a community (or group) becomes fixated on implementing a single value that has no upper limit, and no single agreed interpretation.

It never leads to good outcomes.


----------



## screenman (13 Apr 2020)

I would prefer he goes back to his normal once weekly shop. I am worried for him and his wife, is that wrong.


----------



## hoopdriver (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I have no control over what they do. I control what I do. I find it necessary to let the things I can’t control flow around me. Stressing about things you can’t control is a sure fire way to illness in itself.
> 
> Advice is precisely that, even if strongly advised. So he is able to take the advice on board then decide what he wants to do.
> 
> ...


Purity Spiral - The perfect term for describing so much of the debate on this thread.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I have no control over what they do. I control what I do. I find it necessary to let the things I can’t control flow around me. Stressing about things you can’t control is a sure fire way to illness in itself.


Amen to that.


----------



## Mo1959 (13 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I have no control over what they do. I control what I do. I find it necessary to let the things I can’t control flow around me. Stressing about things you can’t control is a sure fire way to illness in itself.


I like that! Wish I could live by it way better than I do!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> I would prefer he goes back to his normal once weekly shop. I am worried for him and his wife, is that wrong.



Nothing wrong with worrying about a family member or friend. But forgive me if I misread your earlier posts, they didn’t appear to be expressed as you being concerned for him. They seemed to be of the purity spiral type with your assessment that minimising means once a week, his being twice a week.

Let me take you on a thought experiment.

Your brother early on in this pandemic shopped once a week. But he began to find that the items he wanted were out of stock. They’d hardly ever been out of stock before. This put him in a bit of a panic and his shopping took much longer than usual as he dithered over alternatives. This put him under more stress. Restrictions then came in on the quantities he could buy of individual items. So he couldn’t get the qtys he normally did on a weekly shop.

To combat the above he started shopping twice a week and found he could get everything he needed in the qtys he needed. Plus he spent less time in the supermarket as when something was not in stock he just left it to try and get the second shop that week.

So over two shops a week he spends less time in the supermarket exposed to others and potentially the virus.

If you worry about him shopping twice a week, then you'd worry about him shopping once a week. 

I know it’s hard but we have to accept the decisions others make, even If we worry about them.


----------



## ColinJ (13 Apr 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Colin there's no need to get upset. You said earlier you would design one hour rides to get to Lidl. This suggested to me you plan to purposefully turn shopping trips in to longer rides.


I meant that if the government only allowed us to go out once a day to the shops OR for exercise then I would make sure to extend any shopping trips, NOT do extra trips to the shops every day. I wouldn't want to go to the shops every day and wouldn't need to. I would probably ride to Lidl, lock my heavy lock to the stand and nip off to do a quick loop elsewhere without it, then come back to lock my bike up and shop.

If they got really stupid and said that we were not allowed out for exercise but ONLY for shopping trips, then I would still only go shopping 2 or 3 times a week but I would extend my trips somewhat. A mere 3 km flat round trip 3 ride times a week wouldn't really keep me healthy for long.



screenman said:


> Colinj, I thought you were on long term sick and had not worked for many years, does that not put you in high risk? Apologies if I am confusing you with another member.


My physical health had always been pretty good until I became obese and had my first pulmonary embolism in 2012. I had a second PE a year later. I have made a pretty good recovery from those but I'm sure that there is _some _long term damage. I'm not sure how much extra risk that damage would expose me to - hopefully not too much. I am 64 though, so getting towards the at-risk age group.

It wasn't _physical _health problems that stopped me working, it was _mental _health problems but those certainly were not helped by the blood clotting problems! I haven't been diagnosed, but I know that the PEs led to me suffering PTSD. I have morbid thoughts about illness and death for the last 8 years. I'm trying not to think about ending up a COVID-19 sufferer and am doing my best to avoid becoming one!


----------



## screenman (14 Apr 2020)

News, France is locked down for another month, as you may know cycling is banned.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/macron-france-remain-strict-lockdown-for-another-month

Mod note:
sorry @screenman, just barging in to add a link


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (14 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> News, France is locked down for another month, as you may know cycling is banned.



I'm sure that will do wonders for Macron's already overwhelming level of public popularity....


----------



## mjr (14 Apr 2020)

France lockdown extended. Cycling still not banned but no change to exercise distance limit. Only relaxation is that you're now allowed to adopt a pet from animal shelters. https://www.france24.com/en/2020041...third-primetime-tv-address-on-covid-19-crisis


----------



## screenman (14 Apr 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm sure that will do wonders for Macron's already overwhelming level of public popularity....



I think he would rather save lives.


----------



## Andy in Germany (14 Apr 2020)

Just checked: for our state there's still no limit on being outside as long as you stay 1.5m from other people and don't meet in groups; cycling is fine for as long and as fer as you want. Obviously I can't cross the French border, but that's some distance away.
Most people are observing this here, and there seems to be no tightening of the rules.


----------



## mjr (14 Apr 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Just checked: for our state there's still no limit on being outside as long as you stay 1.5m from other people and don't meet in groups; cycling is fine for as long and as fer as you want. Obviously I can't cross the French border, but that's some distance away.
> Most people are observing this here, and there seems to be no tightening of the rules.


Do you not have bike-bashing stories in the newspapers?


----------



## lane (14 Apr 2020)

Telegraph reports police advice today - do not report breaches confront them yourselves. 

Many reports are of "MINOR" breaches such as someone going out for a second run. Probably MAJOR if it's a second bike ride though. 

On positive news possible closure of some roads to make bike lanes.


----------



## Andy in Germany (14 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Do you not have bike-bashing stories in the newspapers?



I don't come across them really, we don't have the same "us vs. them" narrative towards different groups in Germany, in fact politicians and local authorities go out of their way to prevent that if hey can. 
It probably also helps that cycling is a fairly accepted way to get about. 
Cycling as your main form of transport is seen locally as a bit eccentric...


----------



## antnee (14 Apr 2020)

Well I might as well add my twopence worth What seems to happen around here is lots of solo cyclists and some family groups i.e two parents and a child and looking at my fly byes on Strava majority are only doing under 50 miles I don't go much above 30 Well its so busy with all that traffic Laughter


----------



## SpokeyDokey (14 Apr 2020)

*Mod note:*

A number of off topic posts have been deleted - I might have missed the odd one; apologies if I have.

Please stick to the theme of the thread - there are other threads in NACA to discuss wet markets, authoritarian regimes etc.

Many thanks.


----------



## matticus (14 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> On positive news possible closure of some roads to make bike lanes.


That's excellent news!

(you'll cheer me up even more with a citation :x )


----------



## lane (14 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> That's excellent news!
> 
> (you'll cheer me up even more with a citation :x )



Can't remember. Look on BBC news review of the day's papers that's where I saw it.


----------



## lane (14 Apr 2020)

Still getting cyclists passing me at less than 2m when I am out cycling.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Can't remember. Look on BBC news review of the day's papers that's where I saw it.


Did a search and couldn't find anything other than a reference to the fact that roads in Germany and elsewhere are being closed to make way for bike lanes. Doesn't seem to be happening in the UK, other than a speculative article in the Times that says _"Roads in built-up areas *may* be converted into car-free zones"_ and road.cc saying Hackney council _"*could* be the first in the UK to cut rat running traffic on neighbourhood streets [...] to help people walk and cycle safely during the COVID-19 pandemic."_

So it doesn't look like it's true in the UK ... not yet at least. But it is a possibility.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...can-exercise-safely-during-lockdown-l2dp03v8m
https://road.cc/content/news/emergency-measures-stop-rat-running-drivers-announced-272655


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Guess or fact & if fact how do you know?



It's a fact; my brother is with BT and a recent email to staff confirms this, it says:
“We’re providing anonymised, aggregated mobile and wi-fi data to support Government’s efforts to determine the efficacy of its communications and countermeasures. “

Other providers will be doing the same thing. It's not readily verifiable by way of a link you can read for yourself but I'm sure any of the providers would back it up if asked directly.


----------



## mjr (14 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It's a fact; my brother is with BT and a recent email to staff confirms this, it says:
> “We’re providing anonymised, aggregated mobile and wi-fi data to support Government’s efforts to determine the efficacy of its communications and countermeasures. “
> 
> Other providers will be doing the same thing. It's not readily verifiable by way of a link you can read for yourself but I'm sure any of the providers would back it up if asked directly.


Another great reason to use airplane mode while cycling if you're not on-call.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It's a fact; my brother is with BT and a recent email to staff confirms this, it says:
> “We’re providing anonymised, aggregated mobile and wi-fi data to support Government’s efforts to determine the efficacy of its communications and countermeasures. “


Not really surprising. My knowledge of this area is a bit old, but I know that as long ago as about 6 years ago O2 made such data available as a commercial proposition to organisations like retailers who wanted to understand footfall patterns and customer flows. E.g. https://www.decisionmarketing.co.uk/news/mobile-data-ups-morrisons-footfall


----------



## Mike_P (14 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Still getting cyclists passing me at less than 2m when I am out cycling.


I had one this afternoon, I had pulled across to the centre to turn right and the other cyclist going the other way stayed around 1m from the centre for no necessary reason.


----------



## matticus (14 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It's a fact; my brother is with BT and a recent email to staff confirms this, it says:
> “We’re providing anonymised, aggregated mobile and wi-fi data to support Government’s efforts to determine the efficacy of its communications and countermeasures. “
> 
> Other providers will be doing the same thing. It's not readily verifiable by way of a link you can read for yourself but I'm sure any of the providers would back it up if asked directly.


This was mentioned in the Saturday Times many weeks ago. Possibly even before lockdown i.e they were just interested in how modes/rates of transmission related to actual movement.


----------



## matticus (14 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Still getting cyclists passing me at less than 2m when I am out cycling.


Mr lane (and a question for others worrying about this) may I ask:
Are you worrying because you yourself are vulnerable health-wise (or live with one such)?
Or is your main concern that these things increase _general _virus spread?


----------



## snorri (14 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> That's excellent news!
> 
> (you'll cheer me up even more with a citation :x )


At least they're thinking about it
https://spice-spotlight.scot/2020/04/14/coronavirus-covid-19-remaking-our-streets/


----------



## lane (14 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Mr lane (and a question for others worrying about this) may I ask:
> Are you worrying because you yourself are vulnerable health-wise (or live with one such)?
> Or is your main concern that these things increase _general _virus spread?



I think people should follow the Government guidelines it is not difficult. Ignoring the guidelines can increase the chance of virus spread either to me or others.


----------



## Banjo (14 Apr 2020)

People not considered vulnerable are dieing every day. You shouldn't need to justify why you want people to keep their distance.


----------



## anothersam (15 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Mr lane (and a question for others worrying about this) may I ask:
> Are you worrying because you yourself are vulnerable health-wise (or live with one such)?


Yesterday evening while I was putting out the recycling bin, a cyclist came by me pretty close. My fault for not paying more attention, but she had plenty of time to see me, too, and hadn’t bothered moving over a bit. My wife was with me at the time (taking out the bins together is just one of the new ways we entertain ourselves these days – it's a bit of a hike), and wasn’t very happy; nor was I, for not being more observant. She is vulnerable. Me not so much, but you never know, as I am no longer in the first flush of youth, and the crime-fighting platoons of my WBCs could be better manned.


----------



## Dogtrousers (15 Apr 2020)

There is another reason for being concerned when others don't observe social distancing, in addition to concern about infection.

That's the rather picky need for everyone to follow *The Roolz*. I went outside for the first time in 6 days, for a stroll and to post a letter. Someone cycled past within 2m of me. I felt a twinge of irritation - not because I considered there to be any infection risk, I just thought _"FFS 2m is The Rule. Can't you stick to the rules? It's quite simple". _I was more concerned about them not playing the game properly than I was about any infection risk. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if we follow the rules a by-product is that infection risk is reduced.

However, there is a balance to be struck. The downside is that if taken to extreme it results in people misinterpreting The Roolz or inventing new Roolz (like the notorious "one hour limit" for exercise that may or may not exist) and then fulminating on social media or informing the police about perceived violations.

It also results in over zealous enforcement of The Roolz like the video I saw yesterday of someone with a megaphone insisting that a tiny tot out with their parents get off their little bike because cycling was banned in that park. The worst by product of this is when the police, who should know better, start overstepping their authority and inventing new Roolz.

It reminds me of when I was a kid, out for a walk with my mother. I saw a car make a turn without indicating. As far as I knew it was THE LAW that cars had to indicate before all turns and I was outraged, and suggested to my mum that we tell the police.

Edit: "Punctillious" That's the word I was trying to remember when I wrote this.


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## vickster (15 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> There is another reason for being concerned when others don't observe social distancing, in addition to concern about infection.
> 
> That's the rather picky need for everyone to follow *The Roolz*. I went outside for the first time in 6 days, for a stroll and to post a letter. Someone cycled past within 2m of me. I felt a twinge of irritation - not because I considered there to be any infection risk, I just thought _"FFS 2m is The Rule. Can't you stick to the rules? It's quite simple". _I was more concerned about them not playing the game properly than I was about any infection risk. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if we follow the rules a by-product is that infection risk is reduced.
> 
> ...


This perhaps underlines your point about punctilliousness
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52230081


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## matticus (15 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> This perhaps underlines your point about punctilliousness
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52230081


Very much so. 

It's so sad - but rather inevitable, given human nature. Scolding someone else's child with a megaphone!?


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## matticus (15 Apr 2020)

Banjo said:


> People not considered vulnerable are dieing every day. You shouldn't need to justify why you want people to keep their distance.


This is a serious business - _hundreds _are dying every day. No-one needs to justify themselves to me!


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## JPBoothy (15 Apr 2020)

'We' cyclists appear to complain quite a lot I've noticed over time. When the the roads are packed with motor vehicles we say they are all utter tossers, on bridleways it is the dog walkers and hikers that infuriate us, and now that the playing field is thinning out we are turning on fellow cyclists. It will be interesting how long our new 'roolz' last when life returns to normal(ish). Just saying, that's all


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## matticus (15 Apr 2020)

JPBoothy said:


> 'We' cyclists appear to complain quite a lot I've noticed over time. When the the roads are packed with motor vehicles we say they are all utter tossers, on bridleways it is the dog walkers and hikers that infuriate us, and now that the playing field is thinning out we are turning on fellow cyclists. It will be interesting how long our new 'roolz' last when life returns to normal(ish). Just saying, that's all


read vic's link; it's not just a cyclist tendency!


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## vickster (15 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> read vic's link; it's not just a cyclist tendency!


It's a human tendency, when faced with a difficult situation which we cannot control, many people tend to focus on the negative and aim frustrations at others (especially the more half glass empty types)

We can't control the actions of others - only our own, so if we are unable to keep others socially distanced as we would like, then simply don't go out at a time when others may be around


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## Drago (15 Apr 2020)

JPBoothy said:


> 'We' cyclists appear to complain quite a lot I've noticed over time. When the the roads are packed with motor vehicles we say they are all utter tossers, on bridleways it is the dog walkers and hikers that infuriate us, and now that the playing field is thinning out we are turning on fellow cyclists. It will be interesting how long our new 'roolz' last when life returns to normal(ish). Just saying, that's all


It's nothing more than tribalism. Every group does it to every other group.


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## lane (15 Apr 2020)

On BBC news website someone said he was talking to a friend 2m apart when a random lady turned up with s tape measure to check the separation was correct!!

Still think cyclists should not close pass me though when it is easy enough to leave 2m. Not going to carry a tape measure though.


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## vickster (15 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> On BBC news website someone said he was talking to a friend 2m apart when a random lady turned up with s tape measure to check the separation was correct!!
> 
> Still think cyclists should not close pass me though when it is easy enough to leave 2m. Not going to carry a tape measure though.


Stupid bint...how on earth did she maintain her 2m distance while measuring? 
Personally, I would have told her to F off


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## JPBoothy (15 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> It's a human tendency, when faced with a difficult situation which we cannot control, many people tend to focus on the negative and aim frustrations at others (especially the more half glass empty types)
> 
> We can't control the actions of others - only our own, so if we are unable to keep others socially distanced as we would like, then simply don't go out at a time when others may be around


I 'like many if we are honest' make mistakes and wrong decisions when going about my daily business, when riding my bike or, driving my car. What I find hard to accept is the sweeping statements that accuse 'all' of the cyclists/drivers/walkers and even white van men (or women) of being the same just because of a particular incident.. I am now going to really push my luck by saying that 'some' of the most irritating/selfish members of the general public that I have come across are CYCLISTS !!!


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## Dogtrousers (15 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> It's nothing more than tribalism. Every group does it to every other group.


Yeah but they started it.


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## anothersam (15 Apr 2020)

Given all that we can’t control, one we can, somewhat, is keeping our distance; and it appears to be one thing that actually helps. (Apologies if that’s been said before - I haven’t read the entire thread, it seems obvious enough that it must’ve been.) By and large I’m not bothered by what others get up to, including cyclists.

God knows I’ve set enough tongues wagging over the years in my neck of the woods, given that I normally ride around helmetless, hands-free when possible, and wearing earphones (I take special delight going by groups of school kids being herded by horrified minders).


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## JPBoothy (15 Apr 2020)

anothersam said:


> Given all that we can’t control, one we can, somewhat, is keeping our distance; and it appears to be one thing that actually helps. (Apologies if that’s been said before - I haven’t read the entire thread, it seems obvious enough that it must’ve been.) By and large I’m not bothered by what others get up to, including cyclists.
> 
> God knows I’ve set enough tongues wagging over the years in my neck of the woods, given that I normally ride around helmetless, hands-free when possible, and wearing earphones (I take special delight going by groups of school kids being herded by horrified minders).


Ha Ha, at least you're honest about it.


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## screenman (15 Apr 2020)

JPBoothy said:


> 'We' cyclists appear to complain quite a lot I've noticed over time. When the the roads are packed with motor vehicles we say they are all utter tossers, on bridleways it is the dog walkers and hikers that infuriate us, and now that the playing field is thinning out we are turning on fellow cyclists. It will be interesting how long our new 'roolz' last when life returns to normal(ish). Just saying, that's all



The odd thing is, a lot of cyclist own cars or drive, have dogs and maybe even go for walks.


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## vickster (15 Apr 2020)

anothersam said:


> Given all that we can’t control, one we can, somewhat, is keeping our distance; and it appears to be one thing that actually helps. (Apologies if that’s been said before - I haven’t read the entire thread, it seems obvious enough that it must’ve been.) By and large I’m not bothered by what others get up to, including cyclists.
> 
> God knows I’ve set enough tongues wagging over the years in my neck of the woods, given that I normally ride around helmetless, hands-free when possible, and wearing earphones (I take special delight going by groups of school kids being herded by horrified minders).


We can control keeping *our* distance...but what people are trying to control is others keeping *their* distance...which isn't something we can always control unless we are able to keep far away (not easy in a supermarket for example)


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## matticus (15 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Stupid bint...how on earth did she maintain her 2m distance while measuring?
> Personally, I would have told her to F off


Simples - she just carries a 4m pole around!


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## vickster (15 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Simples - she just carries a 4m pole around!


apparently a measuring tape...wtf  There are some extremely peculiar (being kind) people out there 

_George, 68, from Edinburgh, told how he had stopped to speak to a friend - making sure they kept a "large" distance between them - after they happened to meet during his daily walk in The Meadows in Edinburgh.

He said: "Suddenly this woman came up to us shouting that we were too close and produced a measuring tape from her pocket.

"She then began measuring the distance between us."

He said his 6ft tall friend had even lain down on the ground to help demonstrate that they were even further apart than the recommended distance of two metres (almost 6.6ft). _


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## ColinJ (15 Apr 2020)

I have no front garden or yard so my front door opens straight out onto the pavement*** (think Coronation Street). People passing by don't seem to expect somebody to suddenly pop out in front of them. They used to just step around me but now they react with great alarm, some even leaping off the pavement onto the road! 

If I am going out on my bike now I poke the front wheel out of the door and then pause to give any approaching pedestrians time to take more relaxed evasive action. 

If I am leaving on foot, I put one foot out and make a show of fumbling with the door key while they swerve around me. 

*** To our confused American friends... 'pavement' is what we call the sidewalk, NOT the road surface!


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## anothersam (15 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> They used to just step around me but now they react with great alarm, some even leaping off the pavement onto the road!


Under different circumstances, it would all be quite funny, especially if they then leapt in front of a bus. Excuse the black humour. I would not in fact laugh if someone leapt in front of a bus; I myself have been run over. Suffice it to say my wife, who was holding my hand at the time as we were crossing a road, didn't die laughing.



> *** To our confused American friends... 'pavement' is what we call the sidewalk, NOT the road surface!


That was on the quiz when I got my British citizenship.


Spoiler: OT



It actually wasn't, but it could've been. Fortunately I slipped in before they started giving tests. Who knows if I'd make the grade now.

I did prepare this pub quiz (in two parts) whilst* still solely American.







* Americans seldom say "whilst".


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## mjr (15 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Stupid bint...how on earth did she maintain her 2m distance while measuring?
> Personally, I would have told her to F off


A Bass Triangle, nicked from the local orchestra?


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## rivers (15 Apr 2020)

anothersam said:


> Under different circumstances, it would all be quite funny, especially if they then leapt in front of a bus. Excuse the black humour. I would not in fact laugh if someone leapt in front of a bus; I myself have been run over. Suffice it to say my wife, who was holding my hand at the time as we were crossing a road, didn't die laughing.
> 
> 
> That was on the quiz when I got my British citizenship.
> ...



The test isn't that hard provided you read the relevant chapters in the prep book. It's 24 questions, multiple choice, written for a 10 year old reading level. You have 45 minutes to complete it. I took less than 90 seconds.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Apr 2020)

Worth reading about social shaming 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/social-distance-shaming-necessary-coronavirus


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## Brooks (15 Apr 2020)

There's a dual carriageway a few miles from me that has an excellent shared use path beside it that must be 6 to 8 feet wide, the girlfriend and I often use it when where doing a loop in that area. About 3 weeks ago there was 3 people ahead walking in our direction but they were spread out right across the shared path. I passed on my bike and the bloke in the group said sorry to me, but I heard an exchange between the girlfriend and the bloke. I asked her what had happened but she said it was nothing, further down the road we stopped for a drink and she told me he had a go at her for cycling on the path and being too close.
I wanted to go back and have a word but the girlfriend calmed me down thankfully. I really don't get some people.


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## figbat (16 Apr 2020)

Last night I was out on my permitted exercise, riding along the Ridgeway ancient trail. The part I was using is very wide - a good 3m or so with no hedges so plenty of room to move sideways. Problem is there are some fairly deep ruts, now set solid. I ride this often and know which rut to select to avoid crank-strike or other rut related ramifications. Anyway, up ahead is a young woman walking right down the middle of the track. I give her 3 pings from a distance, then 3 more as I get nearer and then another 3 when I am fairly close behind. Nothing. I then have to traverse sideways across the ruts to the verge so I can pass her at a social distance whilst she continues her phone call from the middle of the track.

Now I'm not saying I have any more right than she to choose where to travel, but strictly speaking it is a byway, so she is walking down the middle of a road without any awareness of traffic. Most walkers are aware that they can more easily walk on rough terrain than me cycle on it and step aside and I make a point of giving plenty of warning with my bell so as not to startle anybody and offering clear thanks when they do so.


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## Venod (16 Apr 2020)

I get this all the time but its much more relevant at the moment.

Cycling along shared paths I come across a lot couples walking side by side, they see me approaching , so one steps to one side of the path and one to the other side, its as if they are testing my riding skills leaving the narrowest of gaps to pass them, move to the same side you dumb f***ers.


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## Dogtrousers (16 Apr 2020)

Not really on topic - but distancing related - ages ago (not during virus times) I was labouring up steep narrow lane and something very unusual happened, I came up behind two people riding side by side who were actually slower than me. I called "on your right" and the outside rider proceeded to peel off further to the right, leaving only room in the middle. So I said "In your middle" as there was nowhere else to go, and stood on the pedals so I was through the gap as quick as I could. I received a load of tutting and "Oh FFS" from the two riders.

That has stayed with me with me ... wondering if I was actually in the wrong. By pulling to the right was the rider signalling "we don't think you should overtake right now" I wonder?

Of course afterwards I had the usual paranoia that I always have on the rare occasions I overtake anyone. "Do they think I'm a total dick just showing off by overtaking?" So the next 10 min was maximum effort to put a bit of space between me and them.


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## Venod (16 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I called "on your right"



Most cyclists would understand that, but do you think she thought move to the right ?


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## lane (16 Apr 2020)

I avoid cycle paths etc. At the moment. But had hardly left home yesterday when 3 cyclists stopped together two on one side and one on the other on a narrow road leaving me a narrow gap through the middle. Some people just don't get it and never will.


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## Low Gear Guy (16 Apr 2020)

Does the 2m rule apply to people in open top cars? Two blokes went past in a vintage open top car at the weekend and I doubt if they were a sufficient distance from the pavement or each other.


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## matticus (16 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> The 2 metre rule should only be seen as guidance. You should keep the maximum distance possible in the situation. The risk of transmission decline with separation. It is not 100% at 199 cm and 0% at 201 cm.


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## Drago (16 Apr 2020)

T'is reckoned that 6M is the minimum distance that you're pretty much guaranteed not to catch it by airborne means, but 2M is considered the best compromise between effectiveness, practicality, and people actually attempting to stick to it.


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## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

Does the 2m rule apply to people in open top cars? Two blokes went past in a vintage open top car at the weekend and I doubt if they were a sufficient distance from the pavement *or each other.*
...
you’re assuming they don’t live together


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## I like Skol (16 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Does the 2m rule apply to people in open top cars? Two blokes went past in a vintage open top car at the weekend and I doubt if they were a sufficient distance from the pavement or each other.


I think there is an element of hysteria and paranoia creeping in here?
I know it's serious and people are dieing but if you are really concerned about this situation then you need help, and if you are just asking to score debate points on the internet then you are belittling what is an important campaign to reduce the Covid19 transmission rate!


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## the snail (16 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Turkey has banned all under twenty and over 65 from leaving home.


According to sister in law in Turkey, they announced a two-day curfew a few hours in advance, so hordes of people rushed out to buy petrol and cigarettes. She saw tv interviewing elderly looking folks on the street, but apparently they were all 64.


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## DaveReading (16 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Does the 2m rule apply to people in open top cars? Two blokes went past in a vintage open top car at the weekend and I doubt if they were a sufficient distance from the pavement *or each other.*
> ...
> you’re assuming they don’t live together



And also assuming that two people can actually be 2 m apart in the average car.


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## hoopdriver (16 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> And also assuming that two people can actually be 2 m apart in the average car.


It certainly works that way with my stretch Rolls limousine. My chauffeur, Old Clinker, drives and I sit six metres away in the back, the little virus bugs, if there are any, are most unlikely to find their way through the alcoholic haze...


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Apr 2020)

DaveReading said:


> And also assuming that two people can actually be 2 m apart in the average car.



I find putting the dead body in the boot means it's more than 2m away.


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## vickster (16 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I finding putting the dead body in the boot means it's more than 2m away.


Or the kids...


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## snorri (16 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Does the 2m rule apply to people in open top cars? Two blokes went past in a vintage open top car at the weekend and I doubt if they were a sufficient distance from the pavement or each other.


Depends. 
It's ok if they were wearing long scarves which flapped in the wind as they sped along, as these would break up any nasties they might have expelled.


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## Supersuperleeds (16 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> It certainly works that way with my stretch Rolls limousine. My chauffeur, Old Clinker, drives and I sit six metres away in the back, the little virus bugs, if there are any, are most unlikely to find their way through the alcoholic haze...



You really shouldn't let the chauffeur drink.


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## hoopdriver (16 Apr 2020)

Supersuperleeds said:


> You really shouldn't let the chauffeur drink.


Haven’t the heart to take it away from him. Old Clinker does love his absinthe. And he’s such a good driver. I’m lucky. Every other driver we see is screeching their brakes, tooting their horns, driving off into the hedges or plunging into ravines but Old Clinker just purls right on through...priceless chap.


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## ColinJ (16 Apr 2020)

snorri said:


> It's ok if they were wearing long scarves which flapped in the wind as they sped along...


Tell that to the ghost of Isadora Duncan!  



> _On the night of September 14, 1927, in Nice, France, Duncan was a passenger in an Amilcar CGSS automobile owned by Benoît Falchetto, a French-Italian mechanic. She wore a long, flowing, hand-painted silk scarf, created by the Russian-born artist Roman Chatov, a gift from her friend Mary Desti, the mother of American film director Preston Sturges. Desti, who saw Duncan off, had asked her to wear a cape in the open-air vehicle because of the cold weather, but she would only agree to wear the scarf. As they departed, she reportedly said to Desti and some companions, "Adieu, mes amis. Je vais à la gloire !" ("Farewell, my friends. I go to glory!"); but according to the American novelist Glenway Wescott, Desti later told him that Duncan's actual parting words were, "Je vais à l'amour" ("I am off to love"). Desti considered this embarrassing, as it suggested that she and Falchetto were going to her hotel for a tryst.
> 
> Her silk scarf, draped around her neck, became entangled around the open-spoked wheels and rear axle, pulling her from the open car and breaking her neck. Desti said she called out to warn Duncan about the scarf almost immediately after the car left. Desti brought Duncan to the hospital, where she was pronounced dead._


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## lazybloke (18 Apr 2020)

i went out for a 12 mile ride on Thursday evening circa sunset. No groups cycling at that time, in fact no other cyclists at all.

However there was a group of some 60-70 people blocking the road with a street party in a nearby village. Probably 'Westminster Bridge' mentality as it was not long past 8pm. Not much social distancing.

Street party!


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## tom73 (18 Apr 2020)

Going out for a ride has for me meant bit of soul searching. 
To get to anywhere out the way near me within a reasonable distance. I'd have to pass though 2 villagers one is full of old people who will no doubt be staying put. The other is a farming area which is not just home but a place of work for them. 

Both are popular with most cyclists round here and on the whole we don't get much aggro. So I'm not about to pour oil on the fire. 
It maybe well with our rights to ride how much we like , on roads and route we like , but we have to be fair and stay within the spirit of things. 
I could just ride around urban areas for miles but then that's just riding because I can and is not why I enjoy being on a bike. 
We also now have a dog so early morning and evenings are mostly for walking him. I can't expect Mrs 73 to do it when she working every shift going and from next week even more on top via rapid response. Plus I'm not going to add to her and fellow HCP's covid workload or increase the risk to them plenty of others are sadly happily going that. 

So the best bike can stay put for now miles this year don't matter anymore. I've now got the spa up and running again so can go to the shop and back. I have to walk to town and only then limit it to one shop. I know what times hardly anyone is out shopping. 
It's quicker on the bike so yesterday that's what I did. It's not outside my area, it's within the spirt of the law and I can easily go the back way and not see anyone. Which on any decent ride I can't guarantee so still keeps my legs turning and for now keeps me happy. 
In the end it's a personal choice but only then up to point. 
It's more about being fair, going what is right and not just saying I can so I will.


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## Guzzi (18 Apr 2020)

Still plenty of 2s and 3s heading up to Crystal Palace this morning


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

Guzzi said:


> Still plenty of 2s and 3s heading up to Crystal Palace this morning


Couples, Families, flat mates....


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## carlosfandangus (18 Apr 2020)

I met 5 lads (20's) who were in front of me on a trail (old railway line), it was difficult to get past them all, the conversation I overheard was that they had agreed to meet up as it was a nice sunny day!!


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## Dave Davenport (18 Apr 2020)

I was riding through Romsey a couple of days ago and there was a very old couple coming towards me on the pavement, him right on the road edge, I moved over as far as I could but it was fairly narrow and I was probably only just 2m from him. As I approached he was waving his arm and shouting something at me, I assumed 'keep away from me' or words to that effect but I was already as far over as I could get and he could have moved another metre across the pavement. It was only as I passed him that I realised he was shouting at me to move over towards the curb so the van behind could get past me!


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## Drago (18 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> I met 5 lads (20's) who were in front of me on a trail (old railway line), it was difficult to get past them all, the conversation I overheard was that they had agreed to meet up as it was a nice sunny day!!


Idiots like that should be imprisoned on Gruinard for their selfishness.


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## dodgy (18 Apr 2020)

carlosfandangus said:


> I met 5 lads (20's) who were in front of me on a trail (old railway line), it was difficult to get past them all, the conversation I overheard was that they had agreed to meet up as it was a nice sunny day!!



In the early days of lockdown it was mainly the elderly that were going about as normal, now they've changed their ways and are following the rules. It's the 20 somethings that I notice most now.


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## roubaixtuesday (18 Apr 2020)

I think we should cut teenagers/ 20 somethings a bit of slack. 

Compliance seems to be generally amazingly good considering they're being asked to put their lives on hold for the sake of their grandparents generation, and at very high cost and essentially zero benefit to themselves (yes I realise that's a generalisation, but it's essentially true).


----------



## Edwardoka (18 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> Idiots like that should be imprisoned on Gruinard for their selfishness.


Anthrax Island? I had thought that to be mythical. And here's me been using Rockall Island as my hypothetical New New South Wales all this time.


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## SpokeyDokey (18 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I think we should cut teenagers/ 20 somethings a bit of slack.
> 
> Compliance seems to be generally amazingly good considering they're being asked to put their lives on hold for the sake of their grandparents generation, and at very high cost and essentially zero benefit to themselves (yes I realise that's a generalisation, but it's essentially true).



I think it is a nice example of each of those two generations you mention owing their lives to each other - definitely for the youngsters and possibly for the oldsters.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Apr 2020)

I thought it was a mythical place where only one, left leaning, newspaper was available.


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## tom73 (18 Apr 2020)

All age groups have examples of just not playing my the rules. Thinking stuff it i'm going what I want.
Just that some in the main stream media are more fashionable to knock.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Couples, Families, flat mates....



Including my daughter, her partner and my granddaughter.

Of course some people will take advantage but it is getting a bit pathetic with people coming on to social media moaning about anything that *may* *possibly* be a transgression of the guidelines without actually having the courage of their convictions to go up and ask these people.


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## Rusty Nails (18 Apr 2020)

tom73 said:


> All age groups have examples of just not playing my the rules. Thinking stuff it i'm going what I want.
> Just that some in the main stream media are more fashionable to knock.



It's gratifying to know that so many people are worrying about the welfare and safety of people my advanced age.

Not so long ago we were being vilified for being solely responsible for Brexit, and people were talking about how things would be different once a few more of us had popped our clogs.

People just love to have groups to rail against. Usually a different group to the ones they are in.


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## Guzzi (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Couples, Families, flat mates....



Could be.......could be very unusual demographics amongst South London cyclists.....any idea why there might be an exceptionally large number of Gay cyclists in my part of the world........it is possible a large proportion of my dog walking friends are.


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## AuroraSaab (18 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> It's gratifying to know that so many people are worrying about the welfare and safety of people my advanced age.
> 
> Not so long ago we were being vilified for being solely responsible for Brexit, and people were talking about how things would be different once a few more of us had popped our clogs.
> 
> People just love to have groups to rail against. Usually a different group to the ones they are in.



I read the Guardian and the comments on articles were always awash with gloating that Leave voters would all be dying soon and the demographic would swing back to Remain. Not so much these days.


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## screenman (18 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Including my daughter, her partner and my granddaughter.
> 
> Of course some people will take advantage but it is getting a bit pathetic with people coming on to social media moaning about anything that *may* *possibly* be a transgression of the guidelines without actually having the courage of their convictions to go up and ask these people.



Somebody did just that in the village today, it did not turn out wel! For the old guy telling a couple of blokes that they should not be ignoring the closed sign on the skatepark.


----------



## Rusty Nails (19 Apr 2020)

screenman said:


> Somebody did just that in the village today, it did not turn out wel! For the old guy telling a couple of blokes that they should not be ignoring the closed sign on the skatepark.



You obviously have to consider the likelihood of violent/abusive response in any action you take.

What happened to him? Are the police involved? Should be easy to identify them in a village.


----------



## screenman (19 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> You obviously have to consider the likelihood of violent/abusive response in any action you take.
> 
> What happened to him? Are the police involved? Should be easy to identify them in a village.



Couple of what some in the village would call cyclist, they came out from Lincoln by van to use the skatepark, I think whilst discussing with them he tripped over a low wall. Not sure about police involvement I know they did attend but by the the lads had left.


----------



## Poacher (19 Apr 2020)

Coronavirus: Villagers say cyclists 'pose threat' to residents
The name of the village rang a little bell; Bradwell - wasn't that in the news last summer? Oh yes.
Branches cut and placed across bridleways at head height to cause serious injury or death to cyclists.

Derbyshire Police put out a half-hearted appeal for information. AFAIK they haven't caught anyone for the offence.
Maybe, just maybe they should call in some of the FB posters for a quiet kicking word.


----------



## Rusty Nails (19 Apr 2020)

Poacher said:


> Coronavirus: Villagers say cyclists 'pose threat' to residents
> The name of the village rang a little bell; Bradwell - wasn't that in the news last summer? Oh yes.
> Branches cut and placed across bridleways at head height to cause serious injury or death to cyclists.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jenkins (19 Apr 2020)

I have no idea if they went out as a group, or all just happened to ride the same route, but there were a lot of riders with RCCC* after their name on a number of Strava segments on today's ride.

*Rusty Chain Cycle Club


----------



## wajc (19 Apr 2020)

Jenkins said:


> I have no idea if they went out as a group, or all just happened to ride the same route, but there were a lot of riders with RCCC* after their name on a number of Strava segments on today's ride.
> 
> *Rusty Chain Cycle Club



A little bit of easy investigation finds that they were not out as a group but were cycling the same route at intervals

Rusty Chain Cycle Club - Strava Flyby

Select Kevin, Luke, Matthew, Lee and Tom

in fact it would appear that they might have been doing something for the NHS

https://www.strava.com/activities/3319640200

https://www.strava.com/activities/3319511530

https://www.strava.com/activities/3320019496

https://www.strava.com/activities/3320148719

https://www.strava.com/activities/3319741877

That's a far more postive outcome to the story.


----------



## Jenkins (19 Apr 2020)

wajc said:


> A little bit of easy investigation finds that they were not out as a group but were cycling the same route at intervals
> 
> Rusty Chain Cycle Club - Strava Flyby
> 
> ...


Many thanks for clearing this up and it's good to see they were doing something for the NHS.


----------



## ozboz (19 Apr 2020)

ozboz said:


> Just heard that Richmond Park will not be open to cyclists from tomorrow, NHS cyclists can still go in on production of their ID badge,,



I read tonight on a local neighbourhood site that people walking in the park have been abusive toward NHS riding in there , to the point that a lady who works in Kingston Hospital was reduced to tears by a gobby t”””t


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

OK so moving on.....

On a scale of when the lock down is relaxed we seem to have various permutations, seems like some non essential stores will open, construction and manufacturing will start first, pubs and cafes last, schools somewhere in the mix. It will be a "new" normal not the old one for a long time like a year or probably a couple of years. Pubs and cafes not open until Christmas maybe. Social distancing will remain in some form until we have the vaccine. So in all of that how do you envisage cycling in groups will start again and in relation to other aspects of society at what point? Will the more vulnerable have to sit it out for a long time? Would you be happy to get back to group riding? No cafe stops of course.


----------



## Milzy (20 Apr 2020)

Kids are also going up to carp lakes and fishing while the license holders aren't allowed. People just walking past asking how big their catches are. Many people don't give a whistle.


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> OK so moving on.....
> 
> On a scale of when the lock down is relaxed we seem to have various permutations, seems like some non essential stores will open, construction and manufacturing will start first, pubs and cafes last, schools somewhere in the mix. It will be a "new" normal not the old one for a long time like a year or probably a couple of years. Pubs and cafes not open until Christmas maybe. Social distancing will remain in some form until we have the vaccine. So in all of that how do you envisage cycling in groups will start again and in relation to other aspects of society at what point? Will the more vulnerable have to sit it out for a long time? Would you be happy to get back to group riding? No cafe stops of course.


As late as possible. Clearly non essential and you’re mixing groups of adults from multiple households. Same as for team sports I’d think


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> As late as possible. Clearly non essential and you’re mixing groups of adults from multiple households. Same as for team sports I’d think



On the other hand a thousand or more kids in a secondary school versus a few adults on a bike ride? I take your point re non essential but in the scheme of things I wonder how much difference various things make.


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> On the other hand a thousand or more kids in a secondary school versus a few adults on a bike ride? I take your point re non essential but in the scheme of things I wonder how much difference various things make.


However, children need to be educated and their parents need to be able to work effectively even if it’s from home. Certainly I have friends and colleagues finding it difficult to do their jobs with the kids around, having to home school etc. I can’t imagine schools will be up and running before September

Yes group cycling may not be a major impact but it’s not needed.

It’ll be a gradual process, get the important things done first


----------



## srw (20 Apr 2020)

Construction and manufacturing hasn't stopped, and schools won't open in a hurry. A school is a perfect way to turn a single infection into a giant one and so make lots of families very ill.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> As late as possible. Clearly non essential and you’re mixing groups of adults from multiple households. Same as for team sports I’d think


I don't think we (yet) have any idea how the lockdown will be tapered, so I don't really know how to answer.
BUT I'd say group rides are a much less infectious scenario than sitting indoors in groups. And more infectious than solo rides, of course!

Contrary to a lot of public opinion, I will go by what the _scientists _say ...


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> Construction and manufacturing hasn't stopped, and schools won't open in a hurry. A school is a perfect way to turn a single infection into a giant one and so make lots of families very ill.



Yes seems to be a lot of talk about schools and the virus being mild for children. But what happens when they come home and infect everyone else in the house could be massive.


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Yes seems to be a lot of talk about schools and the virus being mild for children. But what happens when they come home and infect everyone else in the house could be massive.


Keep the adults in lockdown?


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Keep the adults in lockdown?



don't see the point once kids are back at school because adults can then be infected at home.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Keep the adults in lockdown?


Do you foresee a future where only kids are allowed out? They would do all our shopping, and fetch essential bike parts for us.

A child police force would round-up adult curfew-breakers, herding them into the backs of vans. Disney would definitely make at least one hit film out of it ...


----------



## Mo1959 (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Do you foresee a future where only kids are allowed out? They would do all our shopping, and fetch essential bike parts for us.
> 
> A child police force would round-up adult curfew-breakers, herding them into the backs of vans. Disney would definitely make at least one hit film out of it ...


Lol. Home Alone with adults.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (20 Apr 2020)

All of this highlights the importance of the government having an open national debate on what next. 

Something they seem absolutely unwilling to do, which to my mind is completely wrong as there is no "right" or"wrong" way to go about this. 

I would hope that group cycling would be almost immediately permitted; it's surely very low risk compared to, say, having a meal out. In Denmark, gatherings of 10 people are already legal which I guess would allow group cycling.


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> All of this highlights the importance of the government having an open national debate on what next.
> 
> Something they seem absolutely unwilling to do, which to my mind is completely wrong as there is no "right" or"wrong" way to go about this.
> 
> I would hope that group cycling would be almost immediately permitted; it's surely very low risk compared to, say, having a meal out. In Denmark, gatherings of 10 people are already legal which I guess would allow group cycling.



Makes sense. I was thinking that no one would get round to thinking about group cycling specifically. But yes would be covered by allowing groups of XX generally.


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Apr 2020)

lane said:


> Would you be happy to get back to group riding? No cafe stops of course.


Skipping speculation on what will happen re lockdown but assuming _something_ happens _sometime_...

I've never been much of a group rider or a user of cafes. The only time I go out with others is for Friday Night Ride to the Coast, plus occasional audaxes. I think I'd wait more for the thicker end of the "normal" wedge to arrive before I went on one of these, rather than the thinner "as soon as it's allowed" end.

But I will be keen to go out for my solo rides when it starts calming down. Although I won't be doing my favourite type which is to ride out from London to a far flung place and get the train home. I'll be looping back home.

One lasting effect that this might have on my cycling is that I've explored the possibilities in the virtual world, which I was never particularly interested in before. And I've been pleasantly surprised to find it really enjoyable - I've done replays of rides I've done in the past and visited exotic* places to do movie simulation rides, I've done a group interval training session, and I have loads more things planned. This will probably remain as part of my cycling and I may be slightly less of a hair-shirt "as long as there isn't sheet ice I go outside" rider.

* eg Yorkshire. Doesn't get much more exotic than that.


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Do you foresee a future where only kids are allowed out? They would do all our shopping, and fetch essential bike parts for us.
> 
> A child police force would round-up adult curfew-breakers, herding them into the backs of vans. Disney would definitely make at least one hit film out of it ...


No, not a future, certainly 3-6 months of restrictions


----------



## lane (20 Apr 2020)

I did enjoy some group rides. I would be more concerned about sitting in cafes but that won't happen. Cycling with a few others when the infection risk has reduced might not be too much of a risk.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Do you foresee a future where only kids are allowed out? They would do all our shopping, and fetch essential bike parts for us.
> 
> A child police force would round-up adult curfew-breakers, herding them into the backs of vans. Disney would definitely make at least one hit film out of it ...





vickster said:


> No, not a future, certainly 3-6 months of restrictions



But it might be for years - we need to be ready. There are so many ramifications:
- shops run by kids (especially sweet-shops)
- any contact-based service (e.g. teachers, hair-dressers)
- AGE LIMIT?!? When does the curfew start - 12, 15?
- Will kids have a final fling as they approach cut-off age? Middle-class kids will maraude around the world for a week.

- Could we use kids as social-distancing barriers? "_you must keep two children apart. Or 3 if under-10s_."


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> All of this highlights the importance of the government having an open national debate on what next.


Yes, that's exactly what Vickster has stimulated!


----------



## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

I wonder whether group rides might restart first as some sort of all riding an agreed route extreme spaced out at a similar time, stopping at some massive commons out in the countryside (we have a few like that in Norfolk - the nearest to me is a few hundred hectares) and having picnics shouting distance apart - so not stopping on commons that double as village greens!


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> I wonder whether group rides might restart first as some sort of all riding an agreed route extreme spaced out at a similar time, stopping at some massive commons out in the countryside <… snip>


.. or the return of the Drum-up.


----------



## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> .. or the return of the Drum-up.


New phrase to me, that, as I've only been involved with group rides in the last decade. Would you say this is accurate? http://www.thedrumup.co.uk/cycling-history/the-drum-up/


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> New phrase to me, that, as I've only been involved with group rides in the last decade. Would you say this is accurate? http://www.thedrumup.co.uk/cycling-history/the-drum-up/


In his autobiog Graeme Obree made reference to "Drum ups" which IIRC were like those described in the link above.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> New phrase to me, that, as I've only been involved with group rides in the last decade. Would you say this is accurate? http://www.thedrumup.co.uk/cycling-history/the-drum-up/


MJR if you read your CTC magazine properly you would know all about this 
(article in 2018, IIRC)


----------



## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> MJR if you read your CTC magazine properly you would know all about this
> (article in 2018, IIRC)


For reasons covered elsewhere previously, I'm not a CTC member, so I don't have "[my] CTC magazine".

In theory, as far as I know, our group still has a cooperation agreement with CUK, but copies of "Cycle" reach us only sporadically (and I suspect that's down to whether our liaison has reminded HQ to add us back after they refresh the address list from the membership database) and while I may miss a few interesting articles, it's probably usually a good thing, because if I personally paid towards the mag, I'd be more annoyed by some of its other contents


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

OK, 'nuff said!


----------



## ColinJ (20 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> One lasting effect that this might have on my cycling is that I've explored the possibilities in the virtual world... I've done replays of rides I've done in the past and visited exotic* places to do movie simulation rides...
> 
> * eg Yorkshire. Doesn't get much more exotic than that.


If you could stand to meet up with a small number*** of other non-virtual riders in post-lockdown world, you'd welcome to come and join me, @Sea of vapours et al on one of our annual Yorkshire Dales/Forest of Bowland summer rides and compare it to your simulated efforts! 

*** Usually at least 4 and rarely more than 8


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> If you could stand to meet up with a small number*** of other non-virtual riders in post-lockdown world, you'd welcome to come and join me, @Sea of vapours et al on one of our annual Yorkshire Dales/Forest of Bowland summer rides and compare it to your simulated efforts!
> 
> *** Usually at least 4 and rarely more than 8


Get with it daddio. You'll need to change it to a Zoom/Zwift/Turbo-wurbo interactive experience with virtual knobs on if you want to appeal to the really cool people.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

Hopefully with indoor cycling taking over, the roads will be nice and empty.

(for the kids anyway - us adults won't be allowed out until 2021 at the earliest … )


----------



## ColinJ (20 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Get with it daddio. You'll need to change it to a Zoom/Zwift/Turbo-wurbo interactive experience with virtual knobs on if you want to appeal to the really cool people.


Some of us poverty-stricken northerners rely on donations from family members for our toys!  

My cousin bought a fancy smart trainer for the full Zwift interactive experience and I got his old dumb trainer. I can still experience the pain of hard indoor cycling, but while staring at my bedroom wall rather than the slopes of a virtual Dales climb!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Hopefully with indoor cycling taking over, the roads will be nice and empty.
> 
> (for the kids anyway - us adults won't be allowed out until 2021 at the earliest … )



Actually that's not true. Everyone will have to do a 20 minute turbo effort. Those who can't complete it, or only achieve low levels of power output will be forced to stay indoors, leaving the fitter ones to head out.


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

A farm shop I frequently visit has message on their website.No one in the vulnerable age group or has symptoms similar to Covid 19 will not be admitted Being aged 79 apparently puts me in the vulnerable age group..

I know my weekly total cycling mileage has dropped from 100miles a week to 60 .Only because I am doing 15 mile circuits to stay close to home.Guess where I will not be going for my veg and full English once a week when lockdown is lifted 😡😡😡


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> A farm shop I frequently visit has message on their website.No one in the vulnerable age group or has symptoms similar to Covid 19 will not be admitted Being aged 79 apparently puts me in the vulnerable age group..
> 
> I know my weekly total cycling mileage has dropped from 100miles a week to 60 .Only because I am doing 15 mile circuits to stay close to home.Guess where I will not be going for my veg and full English once a week when lockdown is lifted 😡😡😡


Are you not glad they are trying to protect themselves and you?


----------



## BoldonLad (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> A farm shop I frequently visit has message on their website.No one in the vulnerable age group or has symptoms similar to Covid 19 will not be admitted Being aged 79 apparently puts me in the vulnerable age group..
> 
> I know my weekly total cycling mileage has dropped from 100miles a week to 60 .Only because I am doing 15 mile circuits to stay close to home.Guess where I will not be going for my veg and full English once a week when lockdown is lifted 😡😡😡



This is the problem with the "one size fits all" approach.


----------



## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Are you not glad they are trying to protect themselves and you?


It is not good for essential shops to take vigilante action to try to force shielding on people who have chosen not to. Arguably, that farm shop is being ageist. The advisers at the government briefings have been quite clear that some over-70s will prefer to reject so-called shielding/cocooning (aka quarantine) for various reasons (one of the examples used was someone with a terminal prognosis from another condition) and that's OK as long as they follow social distancing and the other general advice.


----------



## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Actually that's not true. Everyone will have to do a 20 minute turbo effort. Those who can't complete it, or only achieve low levels of power output will be forced to stay indoors, leaving the fitter ones to head out.


Will we have to hold our breaths for 10 seconds while doing it too?


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Are you not glad they are trying to protect themselves and you?




I get your point.so should I stop cycling?I have been cycling for 55 year and consider myself to be pretty fit..I have only just started this week since lockdown started to use the local CoOp because I can no longer get a delivery slot on the various supermarkets .That is the first time I have ventured out on foot.What is annoying they know me at that farm shop.

No i don’t have any one to shop for me.Mrs P is currently immobile due to leg injury 


.


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I get your point.so should I stop cycling?I have been cycling for 55 year and consider myself to be pretty fit..I have only just started this week since lockdown started to use the local CoOp because I can no longer get a delivery slot on the various supermarkets .That is the first time I have ventured out on foot.What is annoying they know me at that farm shop.
> 
> No i don’t have any one to shop for me.Mrs P is currently immobile due to leg injury
> 
> ...


No because you don’t have to go anywhere near anyone when solo cycling. While if you go shopping, you’ll likely come in contact with staff and customers
Have they actually turned you away?
The government has provided guidance for vulnerable groups which includes the over 70s, they are presumably trying to follow that


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2020)

mjr said:


> Will we have to hold our breaths for 10 seconds while doing it too?



Just imagine, it'll last as long as your sex sessions


----------



## hoopdriver (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Are you not glad they are trying to protect themselves and you?


Why would anyone be glad that a shop, which is open for business, refused them entry?


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Why would anyone be glad that a shop, which is open for business, refused them entry?


He didn’t say they did


----------



## Adam4868 (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Why would anyone be glad that a shop, which is open for business, refused them entry?


Gregg's ?


----------



## hoopdriver (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> He didn’t say they did


All right then, made a stipulation that would effectively bar him entry - why would anyone be pleased about that?


----------



## BoldonLad (20 Apr 2020)

Adam4868 said:


> Gregg's ?



Good point


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> All right then, made a stipulation that would effectively bar him entry - why would anyone be pleased about that?


I am in favour of businesses protecting the vulnerable. That’s it.
Maybe glad was a poor choice of word


----------



## hoopdriver (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> I am in favour of businesses protecting the vulnerable. That’s it.
> Maybe glad was a poor choice of word


But surely it is up to the vulnerable to decide whether or not they want that protection.


----------



## Phaeton (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> I am in favour of businesses protecting the vulnerable. That’s it.
> Maybe glad was a poor choice of word


Although I understand the sentiment, would it not be wiser to offer an alternative than banning them from entry, offer a delivery service or a prearranged collection so they don't have to come into the shop, but arrive, advise they are there & the goods be brought out or something, seems very short sighted & only benefits the shop to me to tick the box. Clearly each case is different & I don't know the exact circumstances.


----------



## matticus (20 Apr 2020)

Sounds like their intentions were good.
But in this case the guidance was misunderstood.

I can understand pawl being miffed. :-/

<and if anyone wonders how this thread got to 95 pages, a query about farm shops may be part of the answer!>


----------



## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

Pawl could contact them and ask if there are other options


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> No because you don’t have to go anywhere near anyone when solo cycling. While if you go shopping, you’ll likely come in contact with staff and customers
> Have they actually turned you away?
> The government has provided guidance for vulnerable groups which includes the over 70s, they are presumably trying to follow that
> [/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## Phaeton (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I wouldn’t have known anything about the restriction if I hadn’t checked the opening times.


That's easily sorted then, you never checked the website


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

I’m glad I just didn’t turn up. I am sure I would have felt extremely embarrassed to be refused access 

Just as an aside people don’t always believe I look my age.Think I’ll start carrying my birth certificate.


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Sounds like their intentions were good.
> But in this case the guidance was misunderstood.
> 
> I can understand pawl being miffed. :-/
> ...




Anti ageing cream.Bet Amazon sell it.😊😊😊


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> But surely it is up to the vulnerable to decide whether or not they want that protection.





If I thought that I had any symptoms or had been in contact with someone with the virus it would not need for anyone to advise me to stay indoors My background is in health care RMN SRN and specialist Social worker for older people assessing care needs for discharge.


----------



## roadrash (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> But surely it is up to the vulnerable to decide whether or not they want that protection.



it is also up to the shop owners and staff to decide if they want protection from what is, rightly or wrongly (I don't know) being called a vulnerable age group. two sides to every story...….apart from when there isn't...


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> He didn’t say they did




Correct.


----------



## hoopdriver (20 Apr 2020)

roadrash said:


> it is also up to the shop owners and staff to decide if they want protection from what is, rightly or wrongly (I don't know) being called a vulnerable age group. two sides to every story...….apart from when there isn't...


Wait a second - you think they need to protect themselves from a vulnerable age group, people who are largely housebound far more than the rest of the population, yet open their doors to all other comers? That makes sense to you?


----------



## Rusty Nails (20 Apr 2020)

roadrash said:


> it is also up to the shop owners and staff to decide if they want protection from what is, rightly or wrongly (I don't know) being called a vulnerable age group. two sides to every story...….apart from when there isn't...



I thought they were called vulnerable because their symptoms are likely to be more severe for them, not because they are more likely to be spreaders.


----------



## BoldonLad (20 Apr 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> I thought they were called vulnerable because their symptoms are likely to be more severe for them, not because they are more likely to be spreaders.


Exactly.


----------



## roadrash (20 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Wait a second - you think they need to protect themselves from a vulnerable age group, people who are largely housebound far more than the rest of the population, yet open their doors to all other comers? That makes sense to you?





hoopdriver said:


> Wait a second - you think they need to protect themselves from a vulnerable age group, people who are largely housebound far more than the rest of the population, yet open their doors to all other comers? That makes sense to you?



ah...good point


----------



## glasgowcyclist (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I wouldn’t have known anything about the restriction if I hadn’t checked the opening times.



Go in anyway and if they say you appear too old just tell them you had a tough paper round.


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Go in anyway and if they say you appear too old just tell them you had a tough paper round.


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

I did have a tough paper round Two miles up the canal towpath to Alcock cottage .Not bad I the summer Hell in the winters


----------



## Julia9054 (20 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> I did have a tough paper round Two miles up the canal towpath to Alcock cottage .Not bad I the summer Hell in the winters


Were you accompanied by the Hovis theme tune?


----------



## pawl (20 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> Were you accompanied by the Hovis theme tune?



No thank god it was flat except for one canal bridge


----------



## sleuthey (22 Apr 2020)

I was out on the B2B Railway path last night and discusted to see a group who WERE NOT following social distancing rules:


----------



## hoopdriver (22 Apr 2020)

sleuthey said:


> I was out on the B2B Railway path last night and discusted to see a group who WERE NOT following social distancing rules:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s a lot of bull


----------



## Ming the Merciless (22 Apr 2020)

sleuthey said:


> I was out on the B2B Railway path last night and discusted to see a group who WERE NOT following social distancing rules:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It’s alright, they have herd immunity


----------



## Drago (22 Apr 2020)

pawl said:


> A farm shop I frequently visit has message on their website.No one in the vulnerable age group or has symptoms similar to Covid 19 will not be admitted Being aged 79 apparently puts me in the vulnerable age group..


The equality act has not been repealed and it's unlawful to refuse an adult goods or services on the grounds of age. I can understand them not wanting infected people wandering about the shop, but a healthy and uninfected 79 year old is no more risk to staff or other shoppers than a healthy and uninfected 21 year old.


----------



## PK99 (22 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It’s alright, they have herd immunity



Pardon?


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## pawl (22 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> The equality act has not been repealed and it's unlawful to refuse an adult goods or services on the grounds of age. I can understand them not wanting infected people wandering about the shop, but a healthy and uninfected 79 year old is no more risk to staff or other shoppers than a healthy and uninfected 21 year old.




Thanks for that Drago


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Apr 2020)

PK99 said:


> Pardon?



Pardon what?


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## I like Skol (22 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Pardon what?


He hadn't herd you.....


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## PK99 (22 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Pardon what?



Read it again...


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## Low Gear Guy (23 Apr 2020)

Has anyone else had walkers turn their back on them while you were riding past? This has happened to me twice now. Both cases were on a bridleway wide enough for a farm vehicle so passing distance was greater than 2 meters.


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## Phaeton (23 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> Has anyone else had walkers turn their back on them while you were riding past? This has happened to me twice now. Both cases were on a bridleway wide enough for a farm vehicle so passing distance was greater than 2 meters.


Not that I've had people move off the path, but by the same token if there is a place for me to stop & move sideways into a gateway or something I have done that, weigh up the situation & work out who it easier for.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Apr 2020)

Just back from a ride with Mrs D;

Sign on the gate to a field of horses made me laugh; 'Cyclists! Stay 2m away from this gate, Covid 19 social distance rules'. For one I didn't know the rules included inanimate objects and secondly, was it ok for non-cyclists to get up close and personal with the gate?

Less funny was the punishment pass for not being on the shared use path and there definitely seemed to be quite a bit more traffic about.


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## Phaeton (23 Apr 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> and there definitely seemed to be quite a bit more traffic about.


I thought that yesterday when I was out, I've been crossing the A1 because I currently can, normal time 10-15 minutes, under 2 minutes currently, last few times it's been a single HGV or a HGV & a couple of cars, yesterday I had to actually wait for a line of cars to go past, might just have been bad timing, but on one of the other roads there did seem to be more, nothing scientific just observation.


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## CanucksTraveller (23 Apr 2020)

I've made the same observation Phaeton, I only go out every few days but it's getting steadily busier each time. Unscientific perhaps, but stark enough to be really notable.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Apr 2020)

On the subject of traffic levels, Chris Boardman tweeted figures from China showing post lockdown public transport use plummeted (compared with pre) and private car use shot up. Something to be prepared for.

I know that I don't plan to take the train into work if/when restrictions are listed. I however will be going by bike . Many won't.


View: https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/1252209945908518913


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## matticus (23 Apr 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> Just back from a ride with Mrs D;
> 
> Sign on the gate to a field of horses made me laugh; 'Cyclists! Stay 2m away from this gate, Covid 19 social distance rules'. For one I didn't know the rules included inanimate objects and secondly, was it ok for non-cyclists to get up close and personal with the gate?
> 
> Less funny was the punishment pass for not being on the shared use path and there definitely seemed to be quite a bit more traffic about.


Did the gate look heavy? You could move it 2m away, that would resolve everyone's concerns.


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## Phaeton (23 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Did the gate look heavy? You could move it 2m away, that would resolve everyone's concerns.


Daughter told me a story the other day, it was on Fecesbook so bound to be true, a farmer was filming people opening & closing one of his farm gates that was on a Public Footpath or Bridleway, he was livid as none of them were using anything to open the gate other than bare hands, only the occasional one would use a gloved hand, or part of their clothing to do it. So whether that was what the person who put the sign up was ranting about.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Apr 2020)

No footpath or anything, just a locked gate on a field.


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## roubaixtuesday (23 Apr 2020)

Roger Longbottom said:


> Yes traffic does appear to be getting heavier.



I feel the same, but I wonder if it's just perception. Data on traffic levels is presented at the daily press conferences and doesn't seem to show much trend. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/colle...ts-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences


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## Phaeton (23 Apr 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> No footpath or anything, just a locked gate on a field.


Is it favourite spot for other riders to stop & lean against the fence to have a drink or 'something' think I'd be wearing gloves to open field gates if the public can get to them, I have go through a few whilst out riding & always make sure I use a gloved hand, or if in fingerless only use the palm.


roubaixtuesday said:


> I feel the same, but I wonder if it's just perception. Data on traffic levels is presented at the daily press conferences and doesn't seem to show much trend.


Does that not confirm there is an increase? It ticks up at the end.


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## PK99 (23 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> .
> Does that not confirm there is an increase? It ticks up at the end.



No, it shows a stable pattern. That is not an up tick at the end, it is the end of the weekend.

Midweek road use is ~40%. Weekends and the Easter break road use show ~25%

There may by slight discernable up-trend over the weeks, but that could be down to legitimate reasons eg essential workers commuting by car rather than public transport, increased supermarket and other on-line shopping, increased Deliveroo etc


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## Low Gear Guy (23 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I feel the same, but I wonder if it's just perception. Data on traffic levels is presented at the daily press conferences and doesn't seem to show much trend.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/colle...ts-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences
> 
> View attachment 517284


The top line shows total traffic steady or up where the TFL bus distance is down. This implies that car journeys are up. These journeys are probably on different roads to the buses.
The question is where are people going if workplaces and schools are closed.


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## Phaeton (23 Apr 2020)

Low Gear Guy said:


> The question is where are people going if workplaces and schools are closed.


Lots of places are still working, son is still going in 5 days a week


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## Drago (23 Apr 2020)

Many workplaces are still open. It's only restaurants and certain retail establishments that the government have ordered closed.

Daughter #3 is an accountant, and she's making serious lolly out of the upsurge in work for them. Shes pulling 16, 17 hour days, 6 days a week, as are her colleagues, and they still can't keep pace with demand. She reckons shes on target to triple her income this year, and she was hardly a pauper beforehand.


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## SkipdiverJohn (23 Apr 2020)

Been over in Epsom area today. Road traffic substantially, and I mean substantially, higher than yesterday. Yesterday seemed marginally higher than Tuesday. Seen a lot more riders about than yesterday as well. M25 also noticeably busier than yesterday. Still quiet by normal chaos traffic levels, but every day its gradually building up again. The lockdown is clearly on borrowed time as more and more people are taking to the roads to go about whatever activity they want to do. I'll give it two weeks before it becomes totally unenforceable.


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## figbat (23 Apr 2020)

I live very near the A34 - the uptick in traffic (and hence the associated noise) has been noted by many of the villagers along with anecdotal increases in journey times to work etc.


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## Mike_P (23 Apr 2020)

Traffic was bound to go up when the government said it was okay to travel short distances by car to exercise. Within a hour of that my neighbours were out in their car with their dog despite being plenty of local walking routes. There will also be those who bulk bought who are now running out of odd things each day. I suspect the period of hardly any traffic was in part due to those bulk buyers not having to go out and was to some extent artificial.


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## Aussie Rider in London (24 Apr 2020)

Seems Box Hill is completely closed off - has anyone been around there recently that can confirm?

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/box-hill


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## Phaeton (24 Apr 2020)

Confirmed today in the briefing 2-3% higher in the last week


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## carlosfandangus (24 Apr 2020)

Roads are busier here today, the restrictions have been lifted slightly today, construction and associated business can go back to work if they can maintain a safe distance, non essential journeys can now be made as long as distance is maintained at the end of your journey and you are all the same household travelling, borders to remain closed for the foreseeable


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## Mike_P (24 Apr 2020)

Hoping roads near me do get busier, as apparently a whole load are going to be surface dressed and if traffic stays light it's going to be ages before they are safe to cycle on


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## vickster (24 Apr 2020)

Aussie Rider in London said:


> Seems Box Hill is completely closed off - has anyone been around there recently that can confirm?
> 
> https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/box-hill


It was announced previously, closed as it says


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## Dave Davenport (25 Apr 2020)

Not sure why Wales needs stricter lock down rules than the rest of the country, also the new guidance seems decidedly wooly to me i.e. 'don't cycle more than walking distance from home'.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> Not sure why Wales needs stricter lock down rules than the rest of the country, also the new guidance seems decidedly wooly to me i.e. 'don't cycle more than walking distance from home'.



Ah but did you see don’t walk further than crawling distance from home? 🤔


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## HLaB (25 Apr 2020)

I couldn't believe it when I saw a group of three today all stopped chatting face to face. I took a rougher track today through the middle of nowhere and these 3 middle aged gentlemen looked surprised to see anyone.


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## hoopdriver (25 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Ah but did you see don’t walk further than crawling distance from home? 🤔


And don’t crawl further than drooling distance if you’re a baby - and can read the guidelines...


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## roubaixtuesday (25 Apr 2020)

Amid the various panics, including here, about transmission outdoors, here's the only study I've seen which evaluates this. 

2 out of 7000 cases were associated with outdoors transmission. They were from a conversation held outdoors. 

The Welsh policy of apparently discouraging cycling is nuts. 

The panic over joggers passing within 2m is nuts.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> And don’t crawl further than drooling distance if you’re a baby - and can read the guidelines...



and don’t drive further than you can walk. In which case, don’t drive at all😁


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## Rusty Nails (25 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Amid the various panics, including here, about transmission outdoors, here's the only study I've seen which evaluates this.
> 
> 2 out of 7000 cases were associated with outdoors transmission. They were from a conversation held outdoors.
> 
> ...



There is definitely overkill with the limits on outdoor exercise, especially in Wales, if virtually all transmissions occur indoors. The rules strike me as similar to those our schoolteachers used to use - "if some of you can't behave we'll punish all of you".

There are gangs of youngsters meet up around our area (tbf, I probably would have done the same at their age to relieve the monotony), there are at least two houses in our street that have had friends around this week, the supermarkets have people wandering all around the lanes ignoring social distancing. We are not in an authoritarian state and these things are hard to police effectively.

In Wales we are now not supposed to exercise in public parks, cyclists in city centres will be forced to go for more rides around the streets in traffic for exercise and since exercise implies some exertion tiredness is likely to make it more dangerous than riding a bit further into the countryside.

While I have to accept the restrictions I do resent the fact that they are coming over as a belated attempt by the government to cover their ar*es following their incompetence with testing and tracing early on in the crisis.

The government says it is following the science, but I am not sure that is true with Dominic Cummings on the SAGE scientific advisory group - which is supposed to be made up of scientists. It will be impossible for him not to try to influence it for political gain.

Rant over, deep breath........


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## Edwardoka (25 Apr 2020)

Lots of people are choosing to wilfully misinterpret this new guidance or point out that "walking distance" is a meaningless term.
For me, Fort William is technically within walking distance, but I wouldn't much care to walk 95 miles while pushing a road bike and wearing SPD-SLs.

It's arguably less problematic if you have a partner or a member of your household who can come and rescue you*, not everyone has that, I don't, and it wouldn't be fair of me to ask anyone to break social distancing rules or put those key workers who rely on public transport at risk because I got stranded 10 miles from home. 

* Although this is also an unnecessary journey that carries its own risks, but that's a discussion for another time

As it stands, the government guidelines are very generous when compared to other countries, people are being given far too many opportunities to take the piß. I include myself in that.


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## Mo1959 (25 Apr 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Lots of people are choosing to wilfully misinterpret this new guidance or point out that "walking distance" is a meaningless term.
> For me, Fort William is technically within walking distance, but I wouldn't much care to walk 95 miles while pushing a road bike and wearing SPD-SLs.
> 
> It's arguably less problematic if you have a partner or a member of your household who can come and rescue you*, not everyone has that, I don't, and it wouldn't be fair of me to ask anyone to break social distancing rules or put those key workers who rely on public transport at risk because I got stranded 10 miles from home.
> ...


Same boat here with nobody to call on and many taxis not working either. Suppose at a pinch Iain over the road might pick me up in the back of his van if I was really stuck, but would hate to ask.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

In reality you've got more chance of winning the lottery than having a catastrophic breakdown that means you can’t get back home. Even completely broken drivetrain you can still scoot your bike much faster than walking.


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## I like Skol (25 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> In reality you've got more chance of winning the lottery than having a catastrophic breakdown that means you can’t get back home. Even completely broken drivetrain you can still scoot your bike much faster than walking.


Went out for a family sanity/exercise ride this evening. 16 miles of towpath and country park trails and I decided to live dangerously. Rather than my usual toolkit, chain links, puncture kit, spare tubes and pump, I just packed the pump and an inner tube. Based on previous experience that would be more than enough.... We lived to tell the tale


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## Blue Hills (25 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> In reality you've got more chance of winning the lottery than having a catastrophic breakdown that means you can’t get back home. Even completely broken drivetrain you can still scoot your bike much faster than walking.


agree - walking thro the woolwich foot tunnel nattering to a cyclist (2 m or more apart) he said he was severely limiting rides because of concerns about mechanicals.When i asked what he was worried about, he said a rear mech issue for instance. Made no sense to me. Even i could sort a perfectly rideable bodge. And most of london is of course flat.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Went out for a family sanity/exercise ride this evening. 16 miles of towpath and country park trails and I decided to live dangerously. Rather than my usual toolkit, chain links, puncture kit, spare tubes and pump, I just packed the pump and an inner tube. Based on previous experience that would be more than enough.... We lived to tell the tale



You devil 👿 you!


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## Dogtrousers (25 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> In reality you've got more chance of winning the lottery than having a catastrophic breakdown that means you can’t get back home. Even completely broken drivetrain you can still scoot your bike much faster than walking.


Unlikely, true, perhaps very unlikely, but not in_ lottery winning_ level of unlikelihood. Chances are1 in 45 [corrected] million for 6 numbers. Unless you count lesser wins like 3 numbers which is only 1 in 56.

For example: Damaged wheels. I've twice had to walk to railway stations with an unwheelable bike*; Broken handlebars. I've seen a bloke on the roadside with broken bars. Fortunately he was uninjured, but I wouldn't fancy trying to ride a bike with half bars. Not in the 1 in 14 million class.

* It's possible that in _one_ of those cases, someone with wheel truing black art skills could have made the bike wheelable/rideable but I don't know how long it would have taken.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Unlikely, true, perhaps very unlikely, but not in_ lottery winning_ level of unlikelihood. Chances are1 in 14 million for 6 numbers. Unless you count lesser wins like 3 numbers which is only 1 in 56.
> 
> For example: Damaged wheels. I've twice had to walk to railway stations with an unwheelable bike*; Broken handlebars. I've seen a bloke on the roadside with broken bars. Fortunately he was uninjured, but I wouldn't fancy trying to ride a bike with half bars. Not in the 1 in 14 million class.
> 
> * It's possible that in _one_ of those cases, someone with wheel truing black art skills could have made the bike wheelable/rideable but I don't know how long it would have taken.



How many broken bars are there out of all the bikes be ridden many miles? What’s the chance a a wheel randomly failing to the point of not being rideable? What’s the chance of this happening if you regularly check your bike and don’t ride like a loon through every pothole out there?


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## CanucksTraveller (25 Apr 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> agree - walking thro the woolwich foot tunnel nattering to a cyclist (2 m or more apart) he said he was severely limiting rides because of concerns about mechanicals.When i asked what he was worried about, he said a rear mech issue for instance. Made no sense to me. Even i could sort a perfectly rideable bodge. And most of london is of course flat.



Absolutely, I mean, even with a rear mech issue the chain is still driving the wheel.. perhaps noisily, perhaps not in the gear you wanted? But the bike moves. Same with a front mech. Same with a lot of things, snapped brake cable, broken spoke, the bike moves. 

I've been cycling day rides since my teens and I'm late 40s now, in that time I've never, not once, had a mechanical that stopped me riding the bike home. It's a truly bizarre worry.


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## ColinJ (25 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Absolutely, I mean, even with a rear mech issue the chain is still driving the wheel.. perhaps noisily, perhaps not in the gear you wanted? But the bike moves. Same with a front mech. Same with a lot of things, snapped brake cable, broken spoke, the bike moves.
> 
> I've been cycling day rides since my teens and I'm late 40s now, in that time I've never, not once, had a mechanical that stopped me riding the bike home. It's a truly bizarre worry.


Major mishaps _DO _happen...

I broke a crank on a ride. I had to ride home one-legged, fortunately only about 4 miles because it was exhausting.

A friend broke a crank on a ride with me. I lent him my bike to ride 5 miles home to get his car and drive back to pick up his bike.

The same mate had his seatpost snap and had to ride 15 miles home standing up, which he found extremely tiring. 

I had a saddle clamp break, so I had to ride home standing up with my saddle in my jersey pocket. Fortunately I was less than 2 miles from home at the time and at the top of a hill, so I just freewheeled back.

I had a handlebar stem fail. I was able to stop safely but unable to ride the bike back. Lucky again - a mere 2 mile walk home.

I had a spoke break on my rear wheel, which went so far out of true that it would _NOT _turn until I removed the rear brake blocks _AND _released the brake cable. The wheel didn't feel safe to ride any further than a _SLOW _12 miles to Blackpool station and a train home. 

I had the sole start coming off a cycling shoe during bike event. Fortunately, I was able to limp back to event HQ before it failed completely.

I met a guy out on an audax ride who was walking his bike. Not a good idea to carry on riding_ this_... 







I know people whose frames have broken on rides.

I have seen tyres fail completely. If you are not carrying a spare tyre (and how many cyclists _do_?), then that is a real show-stopper.

I had a jockey wheel bolt fall out, which left me with an unusable rear mech. (I searched the road but could not find the missing parts!) I could have taken the rear mech off and tried to improvise a singlespeed bike but without horizontal dropouts that would probably not have been workable. I was only 5 miles from home so I scooted the bike back to swap bikes and restart my ride.


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## CanucksTraveller (25 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Major mishaps _DO _happen...



Oh I don't doubt it! You're obviously living proof! 

I was merely suggesting that in a lifetime of cycling my critical failures have been zero so I'm confident to currently go ten miles out with the minimum tools and tyre repair kit and I'm always confident I'd get home. The unseen disaster could happen, of course, but it's vanishingly unlikely.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Apr 2020)

Indeed a meteorite may strike as well?


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## ColinJ (25 Apr 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Oh I don't doubt it! You're obviously living proof!
> 
> I was merely suggesting that in a lifetime of cycling my critical failures have been zero so I'm confident to currently go ten miles out with the minimum tools and tyre repair kit and I'm always confident I'd get home. The unseen disaster could happen, of course, but it's vanishingly unlikely.


Oh yes, I am still venturing _that _far from home but some of my usual routes take me 10 miles away from a phone signal, to summon a taxi from 15 miles away to take me to a station 20 miles further away for a 30+ mile train journey home. I'll give those a miss for now...!


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## Dogtrousers (25 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> How many broken bars are there out of all the bikes be ridden many miles? What’s the chance a a wheel randomly failing to the point of not being rideable? What’s the chance of this happening if you regularly check your bike and don’t ride like a loon through every pothole out there?


Failure likelihood is low. Very low even. Very jolly low. But it's not even in the same ballpark of unlikely things as 6 numbers in the lottery or being hit by a meteorite. These are another level of unlikely altogether.

You quite often read on the cycling web of catastrophic frame or similar failures. But how often have you read of astronomical phenomena ending a ride? I can only think of @ColinJ 's struck-by-lightning story  which isn't quite astronomical but ...


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## ColinJ (25 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I can only think of @ColinJ 's struck-by-lightning story  which isn't quite astronomical but ...


I do have a _nearly-struck-by-lightning_ story...! 

(I saw the storm coming and took shelter to avoid it.)



ColinJ said:


> That's a false argument because most people have enough sense to avoid being in exposed places in torrential rain and thunderstorms! If you worked out how many people who did stand out in the open on hilltops in thunderstorms got hit, you wouldn't fancy doing it!
> 
> I was in Oxenhope village once when a thunderstorm blew over Cock Hill, 2 miles away on the climb that I was supposed to be going up, I stayed down in the village and watched lightning bolts zapping the road and fields either side of it. I am pretty sure that I would have been hit if I had ridden up there because my head would have been among the highest objects for miles around at the summit.


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## derrick (25 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Major mishaps _DO _happen...
> 
> I broke a crank on a ride. I had to ride home one-legged, fortunately only about 4 miles because it was exhausting.
> 
> ...


You need to find a proper bike mechanic..


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## lazybloke (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> <SNIP>
> Not in the 1 in 14 million class.


If you're talking about the lottery, I believe the odds were lengthened some years ago.


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## Edwardoka (26 Apr 2020)

To the people who are going "well *I've *never experienced a ride-ending mechanical so obviously they don't happen" - is it a medal you're after 

Some novice riders - and those who have recently taken up cycling during lockdown are novices - don't even know how to change a tyre, and with social distancing they're unlikely to get roadside assistance from passing riders.

I've ridden more than a few sketchy bodge jobs to get me home (inc. 10 hilly miles on a flat tyre after I hit a pothole and dented my rear rim so badly that it shredded any tube I put in it) but have also seen a number of ride-ending mechanicals, particularly with the terrible roads around here which have a penchant for eating wheels.


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## anothersam (26 Apr 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> I've ridden more than a few sketchy bodge jobs to get me home *(inc. 10 hilly miles on a flat tyre* after I hit a pothole and dented my rear rim so badly that it shredded any tube I put in it) but have also seen a number of ride-ending mechanicals, particularly with the terrible roads around here which have a penchant for eating wheels.


How did you manage that? I’m in awe, especially as I once pushed my bike for 20 miles after a puncture.


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## Edwardoka (26 Apr 2020)

anothersam said:


> How did you manage that? I’m in awe, especially as I once pushed my bike for 20 miles after a puncture.


Very slowly! It was my rear tyre, the roads were only damp. If it had been the front or properly wet I'd have had no choice but to walk, any time I hit water or road markings the back end would try to squirm out from under me.

Mostly standing with my weight as far forward as possible, lots of freewheeling. Had no feeling in my hands by the time I got into the office well over an hour late. Ruined the tyre, but the rim was surprisingly ok after all the sharp dings were filed off and the dent was straightened out by the LBS.

I was a much braver/idiotic rider in those days.


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## vickster (26 Apr 2020)

A piece of unseen twisted wire hiding in the road fairly recently entangled around my wheel and hub, ripping the rear mech off as well as twisting and jamming the chain. That bike wasn’t going anywhere afterwards, couldn’t be wheeled 10 feet let alone 10 miles. It was also pi$$ing with rain. I was a couple of miles from home only.
Fortunately, I had a D lock, a handy signpost and was on a bus route. 
Bike locked up and collected later in car.
A pretty freak occurrence but clearly can happen!


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## snorri (26 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> A piece of unseen twisted wire hiding in the road fairly recently entangled around That bike wasn’t going anywhere afterwards, freak occurrence but clearly can happen!


I've had a similar experience in the dark, managed to steer the bike while lifting the back wheel off the road as I walked the three miles home. 
On another occasion a bolt sheared leaving the handlebars attached only by the gear and brake cables while touring in mainland Europe. Fortunately an English language speaker appeared on the scene and assisted me to a railway station then directed me to a repair shop.
The third incident was a broken handlebar, but I was able to cycle one handed, holding the loose half of the bar in the other hand for 6 miles to my parked car.


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

Just goes to show how we all define risk & what with our own experiences we feel we can accept, I've just looked & I have not been more than 8 miles from home on any ride I have done & in most cases less than 5, this is not intentional it's just where I normally ride & continue to do so. Although I have to say I have Mrs P & a son at home so that if it was that bad either could come fetch me, probably after a walk to get to somewhere they could also get with a car.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> To the people who are going "well *I've *never experienced a ride-ending mechanical so obviously they don't happen" - is it a medal you're after
> 
> Some novice riders - and those who have recently taken up cycling during lockdown are novices - don't even know how to change a tyre, and with social distancing they're unlikely to get roadside assistance from passing riders.
> 
> I've ridden more than a few sketchy bodge jobs to get me home (inc. 10 hilly miles on a flat tyre after I hit a pothole and dented my rear rim so badly that it shredded any tube I put in it) but have also seen a number of ride-ending mechanicals, particularly with the terrible roads around here which have a penchant for eating wheels.



We’re just saying they are so unlikely as to be not worth worrying about. Riding into potholes can be avoided if you watch where you are going and don't ride too fast. I don’t buy pot holes being big enough they can make a wheel unrideable but small enough you don’t spot them. If you are a novice or not mechanically minded then sure stay within a couple of miles from home. Bikes don’t just suddenly fail if you look after them.

Some of the stories up thread sounds like the riders shouldn’t be let near a bike the number of mishaps they have.


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## matticus (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> We’re just saying they are so unlikely as to be not worth worrying about.
> <snip>...
> I don’t buy pot holes being big enough they can make a wheel unrideable but small enough you don’t spot them.


Yes exactly. If we look at the numbers, you're looking at 10,000s of miles between these sort of incidents. COULD they happen? Yes! But you could have a heart-attack while driving your SUV in a crowded ALdi car-park too!



> If you are a novice or not mechanically minded then sure stay within a couple of miles from home.


... and it's hardly likely that novices are the ones contemplating "reckless" 50+ mile loops. They are a non-issue.


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## derrick (26 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> A piece of unseen twisted wire hiding in the road fairly recently entangled around my wheel and hub, ripping the rear mech off as well as twisting and jamming the chain. That bike wasn’t going anywhere afterwards, couldn’t be wheeled 10 feet let alone 10 miles. It was also pi$$ing with rain. I was a couple of miles from home only.
> Fortunately, I had a D lock, a handy signpost and was on a bus route.
> Bike locked up and collected later in car.
> A pretty freak occurrence but clearly can happen!


Well thats a simple job. Rear mech off, chain shortened. Single speed ride home.


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Very slowly! It was my rear tyre, the roads were only damp. If it had been the front or properly wet I'd have had no choice but to walk, any time I hit water or road markings the back end would try to squirm out from under me.
> 
> Mostly standing with my weight as far forward as possible, lots of freewheeling. Had no feeling in my hands by the time I got into the office well over an hour late. Ruined the tyre, but the rim was surprisingly ok after all the sharp dings were filed off and the dent was straightened out by the LBS.
> 
> I was a much braver/idiotic rider in those days.


I've done something similar (I punctured but had taken my Brompton (schrader) pump with me by mistake. But mine was pretty much all downhill and only for a couple of miles until I flagged down some nice cyclists who lent me a pump. Good upper body workout.


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

And also bear in mind the possibility of another vehicle interfering with your ride and damaging you and/or your bike. Lots of posts about incidents like that. Well, a lot more than posts celebrating 6 numbers on the lottery.


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## vickster (26 Apr 2020)

derrick said:


> Well thats a simple job. Rear mech off, chain shortened. Single speed ride home.


There was no need. Bus came and I was home in 30 minutes if that 
And the wheel was rather buckled too as the wire had wrapped around the spokes on its way to the hub.
Oh and I don’t do maintenance beyond fixing punctures as I’m inept and utterly disinterested in doing so


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## matticus (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> And also bear in mind the possibility of another vehicle interfering with your ride and damaging you and/or your bike.


Just stay indoors my friend. I don't think you are well-suited for the real world with its myriad hazards.


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## derrick (26 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> There was no need. Bus came and I was home in 30 minutes if that
> And the wheel was rather buckled too as the wire had wrapped around the spokes on its way to the hub.
> Oh and I don’t do maintenance beyond fixing punctures as I’m inept and utterly disinterested in doing so


As long as you stay close to home, you will be fine then.


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Just stay indoors my friend. I don't think you are well-suited for the real world with its myriad hazards.


Better be aware than to pretend these myriad hazards don't exist. Or are as likely as an asteroid.


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## vickster (26 Apr 2020)

derrick said:


> As long as you stay close to home, you will be fine then.


Indeed, I’m rarely more than a mile from a station or bus route on my rides and ride with a good lock


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## Blue Hills (26 Apr 2020)

derrick said:


> Well thats a simple job. Rear mech off, chain shortened. Single speed ride home.


Exactly, as long as the chain isn"t toast, which is unlikely as chains are tough, tougher than most modern rear mechs.that was the bodge I was thinking of when puzzled by the chap in the tunnel. Maybe some folks think that bikes didn't exist before the comings of the rear mech. Or that the mech is an engine.

There is the chance a rear mech could take out spokes but a good chance the wheel will still be rideable if you catch things early.


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## screenman (26 Apr 2020)

A small village near us on the Sustrans route had many locals wanting cyclist banned even down to not wanting anyone entering the village on foot also, until it was pointed out they had to leave to going shopping as they are a shop free village.


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## glasgowcyclist (26 Apr 2020)

It's worth being vigilant while out riding as there are some deranged people who have a grudge against people who cycle.

At least a dozen riders suffered punctures this morning on a stretch of the canal path in Clydebank. Some arsewipe had scattered tacks along the path.

It's bad enough to do that in normal times but to do it now is beyond all reason.

(Edit to correct typo)


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Some arsewipe had scattered tacks along the path.


Not that I condone it or even think of a situation where it is acceptable, but there are some cyclists out there who have no regard for anyone else on a shared path, as such I can see frustration mounting up to the point of somebody doing this, in a that'll teach them attitude.


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## Slick (26 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> It's worth being vigilant while out riding as there are some deranged people who have a grudge against people who cycle.
> 
> At least a dozen riders suffered punctures this morning on a stretch of the canal path in Clydebank. Some arsewipe had scattered tacks along the path.
> 
> It's bad enough to to that in normal times but to do it now is beyond all reason.


That's a real shame but all it takes is one screwball to ruin it for so many. Like lots of people, I've done that route loads of times without any hassle so sorry to hear someone thinks it's okay to do something like that now.


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## srw (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> We’re just saying they are so unlikely as to be not worth worrying about


Four months ago most of us would have said the same thing about a global pandemic that might shut down the British economy...


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## Drago (26 Apr 2020)

A lot of canal boat dwellers think they own the towpath and deeply resent anyone else using it. I had one have a right pop at me once and refused to let me pass until I offered to give him an impromptu swimming lesson. I'd done nothing more than cycle up towards his boat, and I'd slowed to a walking pace as I approached but that wasn't good enough for captain pugwash.


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I don’t buy pot holes being big enough they can make a wheel unrideable but small enough you don’t spot them.


You are _absolutely _wrong on that one! Here's an example that I have mentioned before on the forum...



ColinJ said:


> Don't forget to register the pothole at _fillthathole_ and make a point of mentioning that fact to the council, emphasing their legal responsibility to fill the hole now that they are aware of it.
> 
> I did that for a really dangerous pothole near here. It was on a very fast downhill, on the _racing line_ and *the slope of the road was such that you couldn't see it until you were right upon it*. I reported it after my mate hit it on his MTB. Its big knobbly tyres made the bike tough enough to survive the impact but it would have destroyed a roadbike wheel with catastrophic consequences for the rider...
> 
> ...



PS What I didn't mention in that post was that _I _had encountered the same pothole a few days before when I was on my road bike. It is a very fast descent - if the usual headwind is absent then it is easy to get up to well over 80 km/hr. I think I was doing nearer 60 km/hr when I nearly hit it. I was paying attention to the road but saw no sign of the hole until the last possible moment. (The road surface dropped away there at exactly the right angle to mask the hole.) I had oncoming traffic and instantly came to the conclusion that a violent swerve would be too dangerous so I bunnyhopped the hole instead. I know for sure that if I had hit the hole at that speed on 23C tyres then I would have wrecked my front wheel and crashed.

The hole was deep and its far edge was very sharp.


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## glasgowcyclist (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Not that I condone it or even think of a situation where it is acceptable, but there are some cyclists out there who have no regard for anyone else on a shared path, as such I can see frustration mounting up to the point of somebody doing this, in a that'll teach them attitude.



But it’s such an indiscriminate attack. Not only will it affect all those who ride carefully and responsibly, it’ll injure people’s dogs.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> You are _absolutely _wrong on that one! Here's an example that I have mentioned before on the forum...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you knew the pot hole was there but still rode into it. Plus you said fast descent. Well you can avoid it by descending slowly, remembering the pot hole is there, plus there may be others. Doesn’t come under the not able to spot but wrecked your wheel to be unrideable category I’m afraid. The accident you describe was and is perfectly avoidable at this time.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Better be aware than to pretend these myriad hazards don't exist. Or are as likely as an asteroid.



Myriad hazards? Come on, the incident you described is you took the wrong pump with you. That’s down to your basic incompetence in selecting the right tools before setting off.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> And also bear in mind the possibility of another vehicle interfering with your ride and damaging you and/or your bike. Lots of posts about incidents like that. Well, a lot more than posts celebrating 6 numbers on the lottery.



The are millions of miles being ridden every day. The chances of an accident making your bike unrideable really are tiny. Especially if you watch where you are going, don’t have low spoke wheels and skinny tyres, carry appropriate tools and moderate your speed and tackle roads you are familiar with.


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> So you knew the pot hole was there but still rode into it.


FFS... Try reading what I posted next time!

*A friend of mine *rode into the pothole a few days after I nearly did. *HE didn't see it either* and he said the same thing as me - you couldn't see it until the last moment. 



YukonBoy said:


> Plus you said fast descent. Well you can avoid it by descending slowly...


I was riding at well under the speed limit. 

So, you are saying that people should always cycle (or drive) at well under the speed limit in case something unexpected happens? 

When passing parked cars, travel at, what, a walking pace in case (say) a child runs out between 2 vehicles? (A friend of mine hit a child who did that. He was driving at 20 mph in a 40 mph limit at the time. The child only had minor injuries.) 



YukonBoy said:


> The accident you describe was and is perfectly avoidable at this time.


I estimate that I would have had to have been travelling at well under half the speed limit to be sure of seeing that particular hole in time to avoid it without taking violent evasive action. That would also apply to car drivers. I'm not sure what the point of a 50 mph speed limit is if the only way for people to safely use the road is to travel at less than 25 mph 'just in case'!


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> FFS... Try reading what I posted next time!
> 
> *A friend of mine *rode into the pothole a few days after I nearly did. *HE didn't see it either* and he said the same thing as me - you couldn't see it until the last moment.
> 
> ...



Speed limit isn’t a target. The accident you describe is perfectly avoidable and you know it. Let’s not put it anywhere near likely in current lockdown. Child running out isn’t going to make you bike unrideable and you can plan for that possibility when riding. I’d hope you’d do that normally. Besides a longer ride on deserted Welsh roads that not very likely now is it? I really can’t believe you can’t spot kids who might run out when riding your bike. I’d hope you’d ride slow enough and wide enough of the cars to allow for it anyway.


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Speed limit isn’t a target. The accident you describe is perfectly avoidable and you know it. Let’s not put it anywhere near likely in current lockdown. Child running out isn’t going to make you bike unrideable and you can plan for that possibility when riding. I’d hope you’d do that normally. Besides a longer ride on deserted Welsh roads that not very likely now is it? I really can’t believe you can’t spot kids who might run out when riding your bike. I’d hope you’d ride slow enough and wide enough of the cars to allow for it anyway.


Great. I'm prepared to accept that bad things will never happen to you, because you are perfect, ride perfectly defensively, never hit potholes, observe every hazard before it even manifests itself, will never be in a collision with another vehicle, and maintain your bike to perfection at all times. I'm very pleased for you. 

The rest of us ... well, I'm afraid that shoot happens to us. To a greater or lesser extent.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Great. I'm prepared to accept that bad things will never happen to you, because you are perfect, ride perfectly defensively, never hit potholes, observe every hazard before it even manifests itself, will never be in a collision with another vehicle, and maintain your bike to perfection at all times. I'm very pleased for you.
> 
> The rest of us ... well, I'm afraid that shoot happens to us. To a greater or lesser extent.



You are trying to throw our arguments out via calling us perfect and things never happen. None of us ever said that. What we did say is that incidents that render a bike unrideable are vanishingly rare and that still stands. With the caveat that if you aren’t mechanically sympathetic or a novice a longer ride on your own isn’t a good idea. By changing your riding style right now you can reduce that even more.

Don't ride your bike more than 10 miles because it might become unrideable isn’t a good argument.


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> So, you are saying that people should always cycle (or drive) at well under the speed limit





YukonBoy said:


> Speed limit isn’t a target.


Since when has there been speed limits, is this something new the Boris bunch have introduced?


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You are trying to throw our arguments out via calling us perfect and things never happen. None of us ever said that. What we did say is that incidents that render a bike unrideable are vanishingly rare and that still stands. With the caveat that if you aren’t mechanically sympathetic or a novice a longer ride on your own isn’t a good idea. By changing your riding style right now you can reduce that even more.
> 
> Don't ride your bike more than 10 miles because it might become unrideable isn’t a good argument.


I would only differ with the term "vanishingly rare". Subsititute "not particularly common" and I'm happy. What first piqued my interest was the lottery and asteroid references which I thought were hyperbole.

It's not something that bothers me personally anyway because I'm lucky enough to have a turbo, so I don't need to ride outside at all at the moment.


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Apr 2020)

.


Dogtrousers said:


> I'm lucky enough to have a turbo



Now there's a phrase I never expected to hear!

Used one once, instantly decided I'd rather be out in the darkness in driving sleet doing circuits into a never ending uphill à la Esher.

But each to their own, I hasten to add.


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## vickster (26 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> .
> 
> 
> Now there's a phrase I never expected to hear!
> ...


Esher isn’t especially hilly compared to some places


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> _I'm lucky enough to have a turbo _
> 
> Now there's a phrase I never expected to hear!
> 
> ...


I'm also lucky to not mind using it  I do appreciate that there are some people who can't stand the things.

It's something I'd been pondering buying for years and it was a stroke of luck that I actually purchased it about 8 months ago given what's happened since.


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I'm also lucky to not mind using it  I do appreciate that there are some people who can't stand the things.
> 
> It's something I'd been pondering buying for years and it was a stroke of luck that I actually purchased it about 8 months ago given what's happened since.



I imagine they're more valuable even than bog roll right now!


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I imagine they're more valuable even than bog roll right now!


Indeed. A friend of mine bought a fancy one recently and sold her previous - fairly basic - one on ebay. She made a (modest) profit on what she paid for it 2 or 3 years ago. She said there was massive a bidding frenzy just before the auction closed.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I would only differ with the term "vanishingly rare". Subsititute "not particularly common" and I'm happy. What first piqued my interest was the lottery and asteroid references which I thought were hyperbole.
> 
> It's not something that bothers me personally anyway because I'm lucky enough to have a turbo, so I don't need to ride outside at all at the moment.



That depends on whether the outdoor exercise is just for fitness or for other health benefits. I need my outdoor exercise for reasons beyond fitness. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.


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## matticus (26 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> Four months ago most of us would have said the same thing about a global pandemic that might shut down the British economy...


Deeply flawed understanding of risk. :-(


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I imagine they're more valuable even than bog roll right now!



Imagine the price of a turbo where the roller is also a bog roll!


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Since when has there been speed limits, is this something new the Boris bunch have introduced?



Suggest you read his post again. The speed limit of a road was used as a proxy for, well if you’re not going at the speed limit it couldn’t have been too fast.


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## CanucksTraveller (26 Apr 2020)

It's just struck me thanks to this thread that this is a fabulous time to get my twice used, twice hated Tacx onto eBay.


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## newfhouse (26 Apr 2020)

matticus said:


> Deeply flawed understanding of risk. :-(


This’ll be good


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## Dogtrousers (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> That depends on whether the outdoor exercise is just for fitness or for other health benefits. I need my outdoor exercise for reasons beyond fitness. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.


Yeah, we all need to make our own decisions. I only leave my house/garden to go shopping once or twice a week, or to post letters. But that's my decision. I wouldn't suggest others should do the same, we all need to think things through ourselves.


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I imagine they're more valuable even than bog roll right now!


But not as useful


YukonBoy said:


> Suggest you reed his post again. The speed limit of a road was used as a proxy for, well if you’re not going at the speed limit it couldn’t have been too fast.


Do I have to wade through the water first? Either way I'm still waiting for you to advise whether Boris's bunch have now decided to put speed limits on non motorised vehicles, because as far as I know there aren't any so it's impossible be be within the limit of something that doesn't exist.


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## srw (26 Apr 2020)

newfhouse said:


> This’ll be good


Nah. Can't be bothered. I'm sure Mr Matticus will happily lay out his credentials for anyone who wants to listen to his slightly bizarre position.


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## matticus (26 Apr 2020)

Meanwhile, interesting comments from Professor of Virology about whether cyclists are spreading virus into villages https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-derbyshire-52389245?__twitter_impression=true


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## matticus (26 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> Nah. Can't be bothered. I'm sure *Mr* Matticus will happily lay out his credentials for anyone who wants to listen to his slightly bizarre position.


I do appreciate good manners, they cost nothing!


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Since when has there been speed limits, is this something new the Boris bunch have introduced?



Read it in the context it was used we weren’t not talking about speed limits for bikes.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But not as useful
> Do I have to wade through the water first? Either way I'm still waiting for you to advise whether Boris's bunch have now decided to put speed limits on non motorised vehicles, because as far as I know there aren't any so it's impossible be be within the limit of something that doesn't exist.



Why would I advise on that since it was never suggested Boris had. It wasn’t suggested by @ColinJ or myself.


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## Phaeton (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Read it in the context it was used we weren’t not talking about speed limits for bikes.


The context is that it the *cyclist *was riding within the speed limit, but as there is no speed limit it can't be within something that doesn't exist.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> The context is that it the *cyclist *was riding within the speed limit, but as there is no speed limit it can't be within something that doesn't exist.



Riding within the speed limit for motorised vehicles indeed. At no point was it suggested it was a speed limit for bikes and the two of us in the discussion understood that.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Yeah, we all need to make our own decisions. I only leave my house/garden to go shopping once or twice a week, or to post letters. But that's my decision. I wouldn't suggest others should do the same, we all need to think things through ourselves.



I would worry about your bone health with so little walking. There won’t be enough impact exercise at home.


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## Wixsteman (26 Apr 2020)

Just back from daily exercise cycle with my youngest son. We ride around town when its quiet so he can get used to riding on the road. As we joined the route from Glasgow to Balloch had to stop and pick up about 20 tacks on the road, but there was still plenty more spread along the road. 

Probably same arsewipe!


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## Julia9054 (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I would worry about your bone health with so little walking. There won’t be enough impact exercise at home.


I worry about that. I am cycling about twice the mileage I usually do at this time of year but the rest of the time I'm sat on my backside when I'm usually on my feet all day


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## Slick (26 Apr 2020)

Wixsteman said:


> Just back from daily exercise cycle with my youngest son. We ride around town when its quiet so he can get used to riding on the road. As we joined the route from Glasgow to Balloch had to stop and pick up about 20 tacks on the road, but there was still plenty more spread along the road.
> 
> Probably same arsewipe!


That's just disgusting. Do you know if it has been reported?


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I would worry about your bone health with so little walking. There won’t be enough impact exercise at home.


I hate to agree with you (this time! ) but I think that I am doing my shopping by bike too often relative to walking to the shops and back. By bike it is under 10 minutes each way and too easy. It is more like a 20 minute walk each way and doing that with a 35 litre rucksack full of shopping feels like quite a good effort on an otherwise lazy day.


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## Dogtrousers (27 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I hate to agree with you (this time! ) but I think that I am doing my shopping by bike too often relative to walking to the shops and back. By bike it is under 10 minutes each way and too easy. It is more like a 20 minute walk each way and doing that with a 35 litre rucksack full of shopping feels like quite a good effort on an otherwise lazy day.


I do general training twice a week, includes various jacks, lunges etc. Also I use a manual lawnmower which gives a good all round workout at this time of year. But if this goes on much longer I may introduce a few walks out as well.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Apr 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I hate to agree with you (this time! ) but I think that I am doing my shopping by bike too often relative to walking to the shops and back. By bike it is under 10 minutes each way and too easy. It is more like a 20 minute walk each way and doing that with a 35 litre rucksack full of shopping feels like quite a good effort on an otherwise lazy day.



I alternate walking with cycling. So half the week I get about by bike. Other half I get about on foot. I’m not a runner so don’t include that as an option.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Apr 2020)

Julia9054 said:


> I worry about that. I am cycling about twice the mileage I usually do at this time of year but the rest of the time I'm sat on my backside when I'm usually on my feet all day



I try to go walking and cycling alternate days. The walks I try and do in woods or on grass or fields so the ligaments get some use as well.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 May 2020)

About 450kg


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## PK99 (3 May 2020)

The club style ride of about 15 riders in Morden (SW London) on Sat morning was doing no one any favours.


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## Broadside (12 May 2020)

Apologies if this has already been posted but I couldn’t see it anywhere.

Apparently from tomorrow in England you can cycle with one person from outside your household providing you observe 2m social distancing. I must admit I didn’t expect this to be the case.

This is the link to Cycling UK, the British Cycling website has been updated with a very similar statement Road.cc also have a similar article.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle


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## RoadRider400 (25 May 2020)

Several groups out and about this morning. Probably following their instincts.


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## Banjo (25 May 2020)

Latest guidance is cycle with as many mates as you like provided you have a child in a pannier bag.


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