# Any 'Trainer Road' users within?



## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Aug 2012)

For the uninitiated Trainer Road (which shall be referred to as *TR* from now onwards) is a Windows and Mac compatible software designed to make turbo trainer workouts a little more challenging. The software itself relies wholly upon ANT+ technology to provide the real-time feedback during a workout.

There are 3 ways in which to do and record a workout with *TR*

*ANT+ Power meters:* (Quarq , PowerTap , SRM , Power2Max, Garmin Vector, Zone, etc) or a CompuTrainer.

*Heart Rate:* ANT+ HR Strap (Garmin , Cycleops, Wahoo Fitness , etc)

*Virtual Power:* ANT+ Speed Sensor - Garmin GSC10, Wahoo Fitness Speed and Cadence Sensor 

***All three methods require a USB ANT+ receiver stick. Garmin make one as do Suunto(Movestick mini)***

And a compatible Turbo Trainer: List here


Virtual Power(commonly used and is the cheapest option) takes the known power curve from a listed trainer and through your ANT+ speed sensor turns this into an _approximate_ figure in watts. This figure is then used as you follow the onscreen instructions and prompts during a workout.



> With VirtualPower™, we are effectively measuring power at the trainer. That means that any variance in the drive train between your pedals and the trainer can have an effect. When training with VirtualPower, make sure your tire pressure and tension against the wheel are the same each time you ride. This will give you consistent power readings.
> 
> Different tensions on the wheel effect rolling resistance and can skew your readings. The important thing is to have consistent and repeatable readings to train with. That's why having the same tension on your tire and the same tire pressure each ride is important.




So once you have the hardware you chose fitted it's time to download *TR* and begin the very easy setup process. The first time you load the program is will take a few seconds to download workout files.

You can then go to this screen if you have your USB ANT+ stick plugged in and installed. I've already used TR so my sensors have been paired already but haven't been woken up.





A quick spin of my cranks (bike is on other side of room) wakes up the Wahoo speed/cadence sensor fitted. The HRM will pair itself once a heartbeat is detected.




_Note: I have my trainer and resistance level selected in this same window._


With devices paired it's almost time to do a workout(theres plenty of them!) But some other minor stuff first.

Click on the "Profile" tab.




For most purposes you would want to be training with FTP, this by default is set to 200 which can be lower or higher for you. As you can see mine is currently 220

*LTHR:* Is a pretty random number as I was having problems with a known bug.

*Power smoothing: *This option stabilizes the figures as an average during a workout. You can have none, 3secs or 5secs.

The last important option is "Don't use cadence to play and pause workouts". This option ticked will start a workout once you hit the start button, if you use cadence(above 60rpm) starts the workout and 0 rpm pauses the workout. A handy feature if you break your bike like I did yesterday :P (this was not any fault of TR or the trainer  )

*Workout screen:* The gold stars are workouts that I have favourited,these will remain at the top of the window. I'm currently doing the intermediate base plan and Baxter is my next ride so it's there waiting. You can open and view a workout by clicking the graph or by using the Open button when you are viewing the details of the workout.





A sensible place to start is with the 20 minute test. This is 1 hour long with a 20 minute max effort segment. This segment is used to calculate your FTP (the maximum power you can sustain for 1hr) After you have done this, TR will give you a recommendation as to what it thinks your FTP should be set to. As you will see soon,this setting scales all workouts for you.

Here is the result: Although it suggested 201 I made it a little higher anyway.





*Down to business:*





I've taken the liberty of highlighting 6 fields to explain a little further so onto the 3 upper left of the window:

*Power:* This is the current power that is being calculated

*Bold red line:* When this bar is green you are in the sweet spot either side of the target.

*Target power:* This is the target for you to achieve during a particular segment. As a segment is either beginning or ending, loud bleeps and onscreen instructions tell you what to do. Watch for this target power figure changing as you go

Heart rate and cadence are a given. If you don't have an HRM paired this field won't show.

Across the middle of the workout is a thick white line. This is my FTP and the workout has scaled around that. The highest peak you see corresponds to 352watts for 30 seconds into a 5minute recovery period of 88watt target. This ramps up to the first 8minute segment @ 253watt target.

*Bottom left: *This option makes TR stay on top of anything else you are doing,handy for watching fullscreen dvd's, youtube, netflix and so on.
*
The up/down arrows:* This option changes the intensity of your workout on the fly. 100% is your current FTP so if a workout is too easy, turn it up and likewise turn it down if it's too hard.


The other awesomeness in TR is compatibility with SufferFest. Currently I only have Hell Hath No Fury and here it is,fully integrated with TR.






The workouts you do will then be listed under the "Career" tab within which you can share via Facebook,download and review the data.



​


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## ziggys101 (19 Oct 2012)

Just started using it, very impressed with my first use the 8 min test, ill be trying another work out tonight using the figures from the test.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Oct 2012)

ziggys101 said:


> Just started using it, very impressed with my first use the 8 min test, ill be trying another work out tonight using the figures from the test.


How did you do? My 20min test result a few months back was 201 but I manually changed it to 220 

Probably about time I tested again hehe


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## ziggys101 (19 Oct 2012)

not that good only 167 :-( but ill see tonight if its too high or low.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Oct 2012)

Not a bad start. Just flick the intensity up if you find it too easy. I reckon you could increase your default to 185-190 pretty easily though. You going to just ride or follow a plan? I've been doing Intermediate 1 which is 6 weeks for about 12weeks now lol. Road riding gets in the way!

Stress = gain


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## ziggys101 (19 Oct 2012)

I'm going to follow Intermediate Base 1 and doing Gayley in about 20 mins time so I'll post up how I do


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Oct 2012)

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/72335


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## ziggys101 (19 Oct 2012)

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/90422

My FTP was too low I think I had enough left at the end of the last two to go for it so I think I will up it to 180 from 167 what do you think?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Oct 2012)

Yeah give 180 a go


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## Pedrosanchezo (4 Nov 2012)

Hey, thanks for the link to this page. Think i will give TR a try. Not too expensive and seems an interesting way to make indoor training sessions target based.
I had previously been using heart rate to find the sweet spot. This though is no where near as focussed as TR workouts.
Some TT specific workouts are reportedly going to be added soon also.
Will order an ANT+ usb stick. Got everything else.
​


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## Pedrosanchezo (9 Nov 2012)

Okay software downloaded and USB gotten. Here is my first session.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/101561

It's the 8 minutes test (hour session). Just rode it the way it said on the screen. Enjoyed it.

Will take a bit of sussing out what all the info means. Any tips T.M.H.N.E.T??

My FTP was set for me at 238 so will just go with that for now. On my profile page my FTP/kg says 3.12. I am pretty sure with a more intense workout and near 100% effort this will be closer to 3.5 to 4.0 FTP/kg. 

I am pretty sure with the right frame of mind one could stay in good shape through winter, with this program, and be in good stead for 2013.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Nov 2012)

Just roll with the 238 for now. You'll know pretty much past the first warmup period on any ride whether it's too high as a default. http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/20644037-what-do-ftp-np-if-and-tss-mean

Are you going to ride to a plan or just pick at random?


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## Pedrosanchezo (10 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Just roll with the 238 for now. You'll know pretty much past the first warmup period on any ride whether it's too high as a default. http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/20644037-what-do-ftp-np-if-and-tss-mean
> 
> Are you going to ride to a plan or just pick at random?


Think i'll ride to a plan though as you say it may get in the way of riding out on the road. In fact when the bad weather hits i am pretty sure i will have no choice. I can't sit and do nothing for very long so i will have a look at some plans and see which one looks best.

Edit: it seems the first one, intermediate base 1, is recommended. I'll try that.

Do you use any sufferfests? I've had a look and they appear okay though i think you have to pay for each one then convert for TR.

Thanks for the link. I know the more obvious stuff like FTP etc. It's how TR uses the numbers that i am unsure of. The info in power zones and heart zones is slightly confusing. I get that time and percentage are both stats regarding effort over the duration. Time spent in certain zones such as active recovery or endurance. What i don't get is what the numbers in the low and high sections relate to?? Vo2 max low and high for my 8 min test was 210 and 240 respectively. Or anaerobic capacity. 240 and 2000 again for low and high.

Any thoughts what these numbers are?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Nov 2012)

No idea tbh, never really paid much attention to it.

I have Hell Hath No Fury which is a fantastic way to spend an hour killing yourself. Just haven't got round to getting others.


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## Pedrosanchezo (10 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> No idea tbh, never really paid much attention to it.
> 
> I have Hell Hath No Fury which is a fantastic way to spend an hour killing yourself. Just haven't got round to getting others.


Well if those numbers don't have any way to be measured or compared, i will just ignore them also. 
I had a look at Angels (sufferfest). Looked like a whole heap of pain.  So the vids are quite good then? 

I've still got the 20 min test to do then i'll start the 1st plan. Was out this morning and climbed a total of 4000ft so may just wait till tomorrow or Monday. The legs seem grumpy...........


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 Nov 2012)

I recommend SF + TR.

No pain no gain


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## Pedrosanchezo (12 Nov 2012)

Started intermediate base plan. First session was Gayley http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/103252 and i am hapy to say it was tougher than i thought it was going to be. I found the 8 minute test quite easy. Though this means that their system has worked as they upped the FTP from 200 to 238 and the difference is quite noticeable! I was certainly aware that my legs were being used!!! 


Enjoying TR so far. See what like after 6 week plan and report back.


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## Rob3rt (13 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Okay software downloaded and USB gotten. Here is my first session.
> 
> http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/101561
> 
> ...


 
Yes you could but I would advise to limit the amount of time you spend smashing yourself to bits on the turbo if you are planning to race next year, unless you plan to peak for February and on burning out just as the season is getting into full swing! Get your head around eating those steady base miles!

Some intensity is good to keep things interesting and maintain a turn of pace (and for enjoyment), but try not to do too much. Form doesn't last forever and you can not maintain peak fitness indefinitely so you will want to time your peak's for your target events.


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## Pedrosanchezo (13 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> Yes you could but I would advise to limit the amount of time you spend smashing yourself to bits on the turbo if you are planning to race next year, unless you plan to peak for February and on burning out just as the season is getting into full swing! Get your head around eating those steady base miles!
> 
> Some intensity is good to keep things interesting and maintain a turn of pace (and for enjoyment), but try not to do too much. Form doesn't last forever and you can not maintain peak fitness indefinitely so you will want to time your peak's for your target events.


Hi Robert, thanks for the feedback.

The plan as it stands is to complete the 6 week, 3 times a week (3.5hours p/w) schedule. These will be relatively intense sessions. I am still managing to fit in one decent sized ride at the weekend. Of late this ride has been 40-50 miles of climbing. Usually 3500-4000ft approx. Also have the club run on Thursday night.
The idea with the intense trainer sessions is to push myself to increase power,LT, and marginally i am sure, vo2 max. There are other benefits also.
I will then take a break from the sessions after 6 weeks to a assess my progress, and more importantly, not over do it.
It is more a winter training program as opposed to an all year round program.
Also with the dark nights it's harder to ride after work without having to faff about with lights and sometimes it just isn't possible due to the weather.
I think this kind of training in moderation can continue improvement when you need to push through a ceiling. I am very conscious of overdoing it though so appreciate your thoughts.


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## Pedrosanchezo (28 Dec 2012)

How are you guys getting on with the program? Very interested to hear thoughts......

I have a few workouts left of intermediate base 1. I have found it quite rewarding and, in terms of performance, have found an increase in power and the rate at which i clear lactate.
I have also been putting in 1 or 2 rides out on the cx bike at weekends. I approximate my TSS will be in the region of 350-400/wk, depending on the week in question. This is easily managable with little risk of over reaching.

I think the plan is to go straight in to 'Intermediate base 2' for another 6 weeks then take it from there.

What impresses me so much with the program is the clarity with which you can train. There is no guessing or fluctuations with which several hours on the road might give you. You know what the targets are and you know what areas you are working. It also highlights your weaknesses. I found the high cadence drills hard to begin with but now, nearing the end of the training block, i can easily maintain 100+ rpm and more importantly find my "normal cadence" to have moved from 80 to 90 rpm. Doing workouts at 120-130rpm really brings up your normal cadence fast! 

It has helped me realise that winter training can be far more goal orientated than just riding the bike and hoping for improvement. You can increase specific areas by adding short intense workouts, that are specific to your goals, to your normal schedule.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Dec 2012)

Between road riding, work,exams,funerals,christmas and whatever else life threw at me I really haven't bothered lately tbh.


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## Pedrosanchezo (28 Dec 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Between road riding, work,exams,funerals,christmas and whatever else life threw at me I really haven't bothered lately tbh.


Sounds a bit hectic mate. I have a 9 month old boy and the weather has been questionable at times, so TBH the turbo sessions have sometimes replaced road riding. I find 60-90 minutes on the turbo far more productive in terms of fast improvement. The turbo is more akin to riding a fixed gear bike for similar duration. 

Have been reading Brad Wiggins book and he mentioned that some flat races they have a TSS of around 100 because they sit in the peloton and do very little until the last 20k. He said his coaches figured out in 2010 (SKY) that road racing was an inferior way to get race fit due to the amount of "free riding" and "coasting" involved. He said he decided to not race several events as they would infringe in his training. His coaches actually feared him losing fitness during some of the tours. 

Anyway hope you get the bug back. It's just not any fun when you it's not quite there.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (28 Dec 2012)

Haha I'm reading The Secret Race (Tyler Hamilton) atm but I'm not considering magic vitamins or padlocked boxes in the fridge


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## Pedrosanchezo (28 Dec 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Haha I'm reading The Secret Race (Tyler Hamilton) atm but I'm not considering magic vitamins or padlocked boxes in the fridge


Haha, trainerroad is the cheaper alternative anyway. That book is on my list, though will be a very different read i would think.


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## Pedrosanchezo (31 Dec 2012)

Completed the first 6 week block. Enjoyed it. Got easier as i went through it. 

Re-sat the 8 minute test as per "Intermediate base 2" and have been re-evaluated at......

FTP-283 and LTHR at 145.

Previously:

FTP-232 and LTHR at 140

I just know the new FTP is going to suck big style when it comes to some of the 90 min workouts. 
Happy at the overall gain though. It does seem that focusing your efforts to specific areas is a fast way to improve weaknesses. 

Todays 8 minute test:

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/141499

Apt that it fell on the last day of 2012. 
​


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Jan 2013)

Noticed TR supports http://www.ride-fit.com/shopping.html so I bought some.

Get to see a bit of Spain later


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## Pedrosanchezo (2 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Noticed TR supports http://www.ride-fit.com/shopping.html so I bought some.
> 
> Get to see a bit of Spain later


Nice one. Keep me posted if they are any good.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Jan 2013)

I rode Fiesta Island Fun earlier. It's a nice ride just to watch the scenery but it's a novice one so nothing particularly hard in it. 40odd mins of intervals with none over 180W, didn't really bother my HR either which was surprising given I'm on the last stages of manflu (deadly!)

Have Bicicleta Perfecta and Spin around Madrid to do too. For the price I'm well impressed, just need TR to add the rest of their rides.


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## Pedrosanchezo (3 Jan 2013)

I've had a bug too and am now at the stage where anything i eat just shoots out the out the other end. Surprisingly enough though this is far preferable to the two previous days where my head was thumping and felt like my whole body hurt. I bloody hate being ill. Really want to go out on the bike as i am still on holiday. Typical! 

I'll take a look at these then mate. Are they similar to Sufferfest or are they interactive?


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## Pedrosanchezo (3 Jan 2013)

Just went for a cycle. Couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding. Returned after 15 mile. I SHOULD know better. 
​


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Jan 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I've had a bug too and am now at the stage where anything i eat just shoots out the out the other end. Surprisingly enough though this is far preferable to the two previous days where my head was thumping and felt like my whole body hurt. I bloody hate being ill. Really want to go out on the bike as i am still on holiday. Typical!
> 
> I'll take a look at these then mate. Are they similar to Sufferfest or are they interactive?


They're pretty much the same although IMO the ride fit scenery is nicer. Another bonus is you get 2 download links so you can get with or without music.


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## ziggys101 (3 Jan 2013)

You guys probably already know, but I only found out yesterday if you download the beta version you can edit the rides to suit or even create new ones from scratch.


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## Keenbfb (17 Jan 2013)

So I've just got myself a set of rollers and have found this thread it sounds an ideal way to change my roller sessions from just sitting there plodding on into something productive.

Can someone please confirm that all I'll need to go with the Garmin 800 (with both heart and cadence sensors ) is a ant+ usb stick to make this work for me, the rollers I have are profiled on the site so I just need to get the usb, join up and I can then start the pain.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Yep. Have a look at the Suunto Movestick mini, can be had cheaper than the garmin and is much smaller so easier to use with a laptop/netbook


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## Keenbfb (18 Jan 2013)

That's great thanks for that.


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Keenbfb said:


> So I've just got myself a set of rollers and have found this thread it sounds an ideal way to change my roller sessions from just sitting there plodding on into something productive.
> 
> Can someone please confirm that all I'll need to go with the Garmin 800 (with both heart and cadence sensors ) is a ant+ usb stick to make this work for me, the rollers I have are profiled on the site so I just need to get the usb, join up and I can then start the pain.


Yup though don't even need a Garmin 800. Just cadence and HR sensors. The usb stick will work from your computer/software and connect with the devices. There is a list of compatible turbos and rollers on the trainer road page.

What rollers did you get?

I am away to kick my own ass on Trainer road in about an hour. My FTP went up after the first 6 weeks and it has gone from a good workout to "utterly buggered" after 60 minutes. 90 minutes is ambulance time. 

Worth it though......


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Bought Local Rollers and 3xup 3xdown today then realised neither are TR listed yet.

Much clever


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

If your FTP was right in the 1st place, then you would feel approx the same after each work out, since all intensities are based around this number, i.e. as you FTP goes up, workouts don't feel that much harder, because they are in relation to your current fitness. I would guess that if you have noticed a big jump, it is because the original value was way off.

I am not sure about the Trainer Road FTP test, it is not the same as the ones recommended by Allen and Coggan or those by Joe Friel all of which require at least a 20 minute TT effort on all variants. The trainer road version is a couple of hard intervals and then a pair of 8 minute efforts right?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> If your FTP was right in the 1st place, then you would feel approx the same after each work out, since all intensities are based around this number, i.e. as you FTP goes up, workouts don't feel that much harder, because they are in relation to your current fitness. I would guess that if you have noticed a big jump, it is because the original value was way off.
> 
> I am not sure about the Trainer Road FTP test, it is not the same as the ones recommended by Allen and Coggan or those by Joe Friel all of which require at least a 20 minute TT effort on all variants. The trainer road version is a couple of hard intervals and then a pair of 8 minute efforts right?


In the 20 minute test ( the name being a clue) the test period is 20mins. The 8minute test has a pair of 8min segments. There is a 2x20 test too



The workouts list isn't available unless logged in so I can't link you to them


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## Keenbfb (18 Jan 2013)

I went for the Tacx Antares Rollers rather than a turbo trainer as I wanted something _*quiet*_ and easy to set up for different bikes. I can't comment on other makes as this is my first indoor training aid but so far I'm impressed, I'm knackered and pouring sweat after an hour on them so it must be doing my waistline some good, which for now is the main point of them but rather than just sitting there pounding away I'd like to use them to improve my fitness and endurance hence the interest in trainer road.


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

Can you confirm, the 20 min test is, a 20 min warm up, 3x 1 min spinning at 100 rpm with 1 min rest between, 5 min easy, a 5 min balls out effort, then a rest for 10 mins then a 20 min TT effort, then a cooldown of 10-15 mins?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Tip of the day: ride an FTP test first which will give you a value to set to default. LTHR is pretty pointless when you have virtual power to work off(but don't set LTHR to 0, it glitches out still I think), which should be reasonably consistent on rollers if your tyre pressures are the same each ride.


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> If your FTP was right in the 1st place, then you would feel approx the same after each work out, since all intensities are based around this number, i.e. as you FTP goes up, workouts don't feel that much harder, because they are in relation to your current fitness. I would guess that if you have noticed a big jump, it is because the original value was way off.
> 
> I am not sure about the Trainer Road FTP test, it is not the same as the ones recommended by Allen and Coggan or those by Joe Friel all of which require at least a 20 minute TT effort on all variants. The trainer road version is a couple of hard intervals and then a pair of 8 minute efforts right?


Yeh there are two tests. The first time i tested both i went under considerably. The most recent one i did give it 95% or TT pace. This set my current FTP to 283. My watts/kg is hovering around 4watts/kg just now so this seems about right. I am planning to go lighter as the season progresses in an effort to up this figure and ultimately climb faster. 

Long term plan is to be able to TT for an hour with as much power as i am capable. 300w over 60 minutes is my first goal. Must have goals or get bloody bored.


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Bought Local Rollers and 3xup 3xdown today then realised neither are TR listed yet.
> 
> Much clever


Bugger. Send them an email, they try to accommodate.


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Keenbfb said:


> I went for the Tacx Antares Rollers rather than a turbo trainer as I wanted something _*quiet*_ and easy to set up for different bikes. I can't comment on other makes as this is my first indoor training aid but so far I'm impressed, I'm knackered and pouring sweat after an hour on them so it must be doing my waistline some good, which for now is the main point of them but rather than just sitting there pounding away I'd like to use them to improve my fitness and endurance hence the interest in trainer road.


They are trainerroad approved so get started right away. Keep your eyes on the rollers though not the computer screen.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Can you confirm, the 20 min test is, a 20 min warm up, 3x 1 min spinning at 100 rpm with 1 min rest between, 5 min easy, a 5 min balls out effort, then a rest for 10 mins then a 20 min TT effort, then a cooldown of 10-15 mins?


Yes except,the last effort is 5mins with a ramp into the 20min test period. Cooldown is 10mins between 66 and 110W @my set FTP



Pedrosanchezo said:


> Bugger. Send them an email, they try to accommodate.


Done already  I have Bicicleta Perfecta to do in the meantime  Ridefit impress me, despite their puny cost.


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

Ok, just did the test with my PM. Although I have a feeling my results will be skewed as I am pretty sure my saddle height has changed, either slipped or LBS modified it when pressing out my old BB (maybe lowered it so they could clamp the frame) in a workstand? We will see shortly.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Ok, just did the test with my PM. Although I have a feeling my results will be skewed as I am pretty sure my saddle height has changed, either slipped or LBS modified it when pressing out my old BB (maybe lowered it so they could clamp the frame) in a workstand? We will see shortly.


You registered on TR?


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

No I am going to do the analysis by hand. Well with WKO+.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Ahh right


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Just completed an hour session targeting Vo2 max on TR. Hanging in there by a very thin thread. 

3 mins on with varying efforts between 310 to 345watts and then 3 minutes rest. Then repeat. 

The text comes up "need a bucket?". 
I very nearly did. BRUTAL!!!!


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

FTP = 279 W as tested using a Quarq power meter and the same Allen and Coggan method implemented in trainer road. As I said, my saddle seemed lower than I am used to, so possible error in this value (also don't think I went hard enough at the start of the 20 min effort). I will take this value for now. I do a 2x20 min session each week, so will keep a look out on the second 20 min's power and if the FTP value is way off, it will be obvious.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

I've decided to FTP test tomorrow  and start on a more frequent training plan.

Need new tyres anyway 

Now where is my vial of dihydrogen oxide


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> FTP = 279 W as tested using a Quarq power meter and the same Allen and Coggan method implemented in trainer road. As I said, my saddle seemed lower than I am used to, so possible error in this value (also don't think I went hard enough at the start of the 20 min effort). I will take this value for now. I do a 2x20 min session each week, so will keep a look out on the second 20 min's power and if the FTP value is way off, it will be obvious.


 
Good effort! 

I would prefer to actually have a TT bike on the turbo but alas it's not to be just yet. With a normal road bike, going in to TT position restricts your breathing slightly and definitely reduces your power. 

I like the idea of doing 20 minute sessions on a weekly basis. Seems a sure fire way to better your 10 mile TT performance. I am for now though going through the trainer road intermediate base 2 program. Before this i had several workouts to do but the one thing i noticed with TR is that every workout has a purpose. No time is wasted, i like that.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Pedro cast your eye on Advanced build 1. Screw this intermediate lark


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Pedro cast your eye on Advanced build 1. Screw this intermediate lark


 
 I will get to that but i think i may wish to warm myself up to that kind of pain. I am hitting the odd workout just now (especially the 90 minute sessions) that kicks my ass sideways!! In fact this last one had me broken!! 

I fancied doing two or three base plans before picking and choosing what workouts will squeeze the most out of me for spring/summer. 

What's your plan?


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## Rob3rt (18 Jan 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Good effort!
> 
> I would prefer to actually have a TT bike on the turbo but alas it's not to be just yet. With a normal road bike, going in to TT position restricts your breathing slightly and definitely reduces your power.
> 
> I like the idea of doing 20 minute sessions on a weekly basis. Seems a sure fire way to better your 10 mile TT performance. I am for now though going through the trainer road intermediate base 2 program. Before this i had several workouts to do but the one thing i noticed with TR is that every workout has a purpose. No time is wasted, i like that.


 
I have a TT bike, but don't train on it as often as I should. I tend to train on my road bike, because it is convenient.

ATM I am training for 10 and 25 mile TT's (and long draggy hill climbs). 1st event will be in the 1st week of March (25 mile 2-up TTT).

My training is comprised of:

4x5 min intervals
Club interval session (done on a 0.5 mile circuit): Start with through and off to warm up, mixed small group and individual efforts then a mock 5 mile scratch race to finish up (we hold it together through and off style upping the pace for 1st 5 laps, then in the final 5 it is a free for all to the finish).
2x20 min intervals
3-4 hour endurance ride in the hills


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I have a TT bike, but don't train on it as often as I should. I tend to train on my road bike, because it is convenient.
> 
> ATM I am training for 10 and 25 mile TT's. 1st event will be in the 1st week of March.
> 
> ...


Sounds like good work to me. 

Our club has a 10 mile TT circuit that is hilly and twisting. Makes for good training. I do that maybe once a month at the moment. 
On top of the trainer road workouts (which make up 3.5 hours/week) i also do a 180 minutes of hill climbing. It's actually the same route i do (sometimes in reverse). It's called the 5 hills. It's essentially just under 4000ft of climbing which i tend to do a mixture of high and low cadence sessions. 

All good work if you make it count. Beats the sh*t out of riding 10 hours a week on flat roads at 14mph (in a get faster/fitter sense). 

I think i will add the 2x20min TT intervals every few weeks. That second interval will do wonders for LT and Vo2 max endurance.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Jan 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I will get to that but i think i may wish to warm myself up to that kind of pain. I am hitting the odd workout just now (especially the 90 minute sessions) that kicks my ass sideways!! In fact this last one had me broken!!
> 
> I fancied doing two or three base plans before picking and choosing what workouts will squeeze the most out of me for spring/summer.
> 
> What's your plan?


Advanced 1 for now, may well head back towards triathlon which will change everything. Intend to race CX this year. So theres a fair amount to fit in, inc exams this month


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## Pedrosanchezo (18 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Advanced 1 for now, may well head back towards triathlon which will change everything. Intend to race CX this year.


Our club does CX club runs. Only three or four of us attend but it is always so much fun. CX bikes can do far more than people realise!! You can also do off road instead of road bike riding if the weather is too cold or wet. Makes it more interesting. 

I am away to look at advance build now.........


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2013)

@ianrauk Can you add this link to the OP for me please? Doesn't particularly matter where
@Shaun
@fossyant
Budget ANT+ HRM & Speed/Cad Sensor


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## Chris.IOW (20 Jan 2013)

Another Trainer road user here, (Thanks for the link to thread T.M.H.N.E.T) Although not sharing my pathetic power outputs with you after reading some of yours! So far I haven't followed one of the plans just been doing workouts particularly with Sufferfest videos but having read some of the progress made will look to follow a plan.

Find it a fantastic way to beat any hint of boredom on the Turbo.


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## ziggys101 (21 Jan 2013)

First session after a week of rest, wrecked


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## ziggys101 (22 Jan 2013)

What are your favourite sessions on TrainerRoad mine so far are Ebbetts and the 2x20min test


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## Pedrosanchezo (22 Jan 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> What are your favourite sessions on TrainerRoad mine so far are Ebbetts and the 2x20min test


Really enjoyed Huffaker. Well love/Hate as it is brutal. I've done it twice - once just 5 minutes ago. 
Also really enjoyed Newcomb. Both on the second intermediate. 
first intermediate base i liked.............Goddard and Ebbets. I find the tests horrible as hanging on for 20 minutes is like time trialling without the adrenaline.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jan 2013)

ziggys101 said:


> What are your favourite sessions on TrainerRoad mine so far are Ebbetts and the 2x20min test


Haven't found a favourite TR ride yet, although Sufferfest and ridefit collectively rank very high


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## ziggys101 (22 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Haven't found a favourite TR ride yet, although Sufferfest and ridefit collectively rank very high


I've not done any of the video stuff yet as I normally just listen to music, looked at sufferfest but not sure which to choose do you have a recommendation?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (22 Jan 2013)

All/any of them. You can buy two ridefit vids for not much more than the cost of 1 SF though. Although waiting on the TR guys adding the rest of the rides.

RF provide two download links too. With music and without


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## ziggys101 (22 Jan 2013)

Right in the middle of downloading Sufferfest "Angels" and I'll try it out tomorrow


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## ziggys101 (23 Jan 2013)

OMFG that was hard


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (23 Jan 2013)

Angels isn't so angelic is it?


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## ziggys101 (23 Jan 2013)

I hung on till the last climb then gave up  and stayed at FTP till the last sprint and gave it all I had left, so some work to do! But managed to get over 400 watts (Virtual Power) for the first time ever. After the cooldown I just sat there dripping


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## Pedrosanchezo (26 Jan 2013)

Stacked two sessions today.

"Black" which is a 60 minute aerobic workout with no rests, just constant (NP of around 205). Fairly easy going on the legs but made it fast-ish cadence (90-100rpm) so the heart and lungs were worked.
"Whitney" was the second workout. 12 minutes long consisting of warm up and warm down. Slap bang in the middle was the following:

8 x 20 seconds @ 453watts sets with 10 second breaks in between. (Tabata intervals).

Certainly wakes the legs up. Also ended up fighting the gears as the time you change down to spin for ten seconds you are going back up to the big ring again! Legs were flooding with the naughty stuff that is lactate.

Enjoyable all the same.


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## Demonclimber (29 Jan 2013)

Legs still jelly and not working after Stage 3 of ToS - Extra Shot and Fight Club back to back!!! Can thoroughly recommend it - if you like that sort of thing!


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## Chris.IOW (29 Jan 2013)

Demonclimber said:


> Legs still jelly and not working after Stage 3 of ToS - Extra Shot and Fight Club back to back!!! Can thoroughly recommend it - if you like that sort of thing!


 
Haha, doesn't get any better after stage 4! I'm really enjoying the tour, but it's hardowrk


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## Demonclimber (29 Jan 2013)

Chris.IOW said:


> Haha, doesn't get any better after stage 4! I'm really enjoying the tour, but it's hardowrk


OMG stage 4 has nearly finished me off, what was an old man like me thinking of??!!


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jan 2013)

Done Jepson last night and had some juice left so went in to a free session to finish with some Tabatta intervals. 
This morning has me wishing i could stay in bed a few more hours.


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## Chris.IOW (30 Jan 2013)

Demonclimber said:


> OMG stage 4 has nearly finished me off, what was an old man like me thinking of??!!


 
Me too...legs are still wobbly, doesn't bode well for Angels tonight!


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## Ningishzidda (30 Jan 2013)

I'm looking at purchasing an Elite Qubo Wireless Digital.
What's the score? How does it connect up?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (30 Jan 2013)

Garmin USB ANT+ stick or Suunto Movestick Mini.

Devices are paired in the "Devices" tab in TR and you're set, just spin the roller to wake the ANT+ up


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## Ningishzidda (30 Jan 2013)

Ribble won't get Elite Qubo Wireless Digital in for another week. £324.
I'll read up.


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## Ningishzidda (30 Jan 2013)

The speed and power values are coming from the turbo. ? These will be in line with the 'Road curve' being used by the turbo's head units firmware. Watts vs kmh. I am assuming that on an Elite Qubo Wireless Digital turbo, there isn't a strain gauge load cell measuring torque. There might be. Can anyone confirm?

Does the TR software have facility to over-ride the Turbo's signals to the brake to achieve a 'Road curve' representative of my bike which is formulated by me?


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## Pedrosanchezo (30 Jan 2013)

Just knocked out a PB on a training 10 mile TT. Road bike and all. 

21 minutes flat. 

I want to say that the Trainerroad program has got me there but i think it is more likely that Trainerroad is 50% responsible and the rest was the 18mph+ winds today.


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## Demonclimber (30 Jan 2013)

Chris.IOW said:


> Me too...legs are still wobbly, doesn't bode well for Angels tonight!


Taking a chance and doing Angels tomorrow morning so a night off!! Well, TdF riders get a day off! Good luck with your little Angels tonight.


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## Demonclimber (31 Jan 2013)

Angels, Done.  Off to Glasgow for Revolution on Saturday, I wonder if they'd let me do Downward Spiral in front of a roaring crowd??


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## Chris.IOW (2 Feb 2013)

Demonclimber said:


> Angels, Done.  Off to Glasgow for Revolution on Saturday, I wonder if they'd let me do Downward Spiral in front of a roaring crowd??


 
I'm sure they would.

Stage 8 today, damn near killed me but glad to be through...Bring on Local hero tomorrow.

I have to say this tour is a fantastic idea by Trainerroad and Sufferfest, has really kicked my winter training up about 10 gears. Can't wait for a nice spring day to hopefully see the benefits.


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## Demonclimber (3 Feb 2013)

Chris.IOW said:


> I'm sure they would.
> 
> Stage 8 today, damn near killed me but glad to be through...Bring on Local hero tomorrow.
> 
> I have to say this tour is a fantastic idea by Trainerroad and Sufferfest, has really kicked my winter training up about 10 gears. Can't wait for a nice spring day to hopefully see the benefits.


Ended up doing TINT & R(Rem) yesterday morning and not trying to set up Velodrome Showdown, that was tough - due to bit of miscalculation with timings ended up doing 5 workouts in last 2 days!! and HR trace shows too. Local Hero tomorrow morning just before time runs out and then fame and glory as I hope to still win the Viridian Jersey! Yep, agree, genius idea - must of been of some use, never ever trained this hard before.


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## john mc ardle (10 Feb 2013)

hi all......new to this forum and new user of trainer road. I'm a club rider and inter club racer.....on the cusp of going A4 license holder and aware I'm a bit short just now.....found TR and am using it with Lemond Revolution.....happy to share experiences and rides ....just wondering for now what standard the rest of the posters on here ride at ? first impressions of TR are very good as they provide a very controlled and disciplined workout.....as Pedro mentioned the 90 minute workouts are brutal and the Local Hero SF has a real challenging 20mins beyond FTP when already worked hard...look forward to sharing all your experiences


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## Pedrosanchezo (10 Feb 2013)

john mc ardle said:


> hi all......new to this forum and new user of trainer road. I'm a club rider and inter club racer.....on the cusp of going A4 license holder and aware I'm a bit short just now.....found TR and am using it with Lemond Revolution.....happy to share experiences and rides ....just wondering for now what standard the rest of the posters on here ride at ? first impressions of TR are very good as they provide a very controlled and disciplined workout.....as Pedro mentioned the 90 minute workouts are brutal and the Local Hero SF has a real challenging 20mins beyond FTP when already worked hard...look forward to sharing all your experiences


I think it's great John. Keeps you interested way beyond normal turbo/roller use. I actually now look forward to TR sessions with a renewed masochistic vigour. 

It' great to be able to measure progress too.


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## S1m0n (4 Nov 2013)

I see this thread is a little old but seems a good place to ask about what other trainerroaders are up to.

I decided to do the advanced century program and started last week. I want to ensure that I don't get my head kicked in on every group ride! I had to climb off after 37 mins of my second run at Citadel. Wish I'd done another FTP test before starting rather than relying on my last test done sometime in the summer. 

I've got Ruskin to do tonight and I'm dreading it already.

What are other folks up to, what's your trainer and what's your torture chamber look like.

I ride kreitler 2.25" rollers in the garage. My concessions to luxury are a carpet and a comfy saddle


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## Pedrosanchezo (4 Nov 2013)

I'm in the garage on my CX bike with cyclops turbo. I always put on a dvd and minimise the trainerroad screen to horizontal. Helps me take my mind off the pain and suffering, lol. 

Have just started the 40k time trial and it's going to be interesting. I've set up the bike with profile forward seatpost and dropped the bars and stem to get a 10-cm drop. At present i am 3 workouts in but i also fit in outdoor rides on top of the 4 trainerroad sessions a week. 

They can be brutal but the gains to be had are very much worth it!


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## S1m0n (5 Nov 2013)

Well, I managed Ruskin last night http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/458782-Ruskin

Had to knock it back by 5% though as I knew I'd be unable to complete it otherwise. I'm struggling to complete workouts at my previous (trained) FTP. Another Ruskin on Wednesday. Might put it up 1%

I'm into the second week of this plan but I'm only doing 2 session and supplementing with rides outdoors at the weekend.

I think I'll do the 40k TT plan next season in prep for some races

Kasabian helped me through this one.


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## john mc ardle (5 Nov 2013)

Simon it's really important to check the FTP regularly with a test and reset it up or down... otherwise you will demotivate if it's too high and you are struggling to complete as the session suggests ....my FTP had to be reset downwards by 15 watts at the end of the summer when I started using TR again after the season .... but back up already to where it was in spring 2013..... it's a great aid ..... can I recommend the 8 days of california tour for the darker days .... 8 consecutive days in the saddle really loads up the TSS numbers ....then you can take a rest and retest and watch the FTP improve....

my pain chamber is in my garage ....TR on horizontal on the laptop whilst I watch Netflix....in the most intense workouts often hard to watch properly but kills two birds with one stone for the time pressured like me


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## S1m0n (5 Nov 2013)

Yeah, I guess I was just trying to avoid the inevitable. Those tests hurt!


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## stoobydale (5 Nov 2013)

Hopefully going to give TR a go this week. Power2max should be arriving to so will be comparing Tacx Cosmos and Kurt Kinetic Road Machine once I get everything set up. Just need a dose of motivation to get me started.


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## Sittingduck (25 Nov 2013)

Nice info Netty.

Just signed myself up for this and downloaded the software. Have an ANT+ dongle on order from Wiggle. Downloading 3 Sufferfest vids as I type this... let the madness begin


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2013)

Beasting time  Doing my best to avoid the turbo until 2014, this is to be a season of learning and hopefully avoiding A4 pile-ups 

Keep a bucket handy ducky


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## Sittingduck (25 Nov 2013)

*sniff

I had a turbo and sold it about a year ago because I never used it. Then I need one again so ended up taking advantage of an offer in Halfords, last week. Done an FTHR test on Friday morning and to say that it was an enjoyable way to start the day would be a lie. Also been very close to getting a power meter of late but am going to give this virtual power a try on TR. As long as it's consistent then it should be of some benefit. Now I just need to fit in time for these sessions, along with commuting, Sat fast club run, Sun hilly social club run, BC Circuit coaching sessions and Tuesday night chaingangs  Wish I could just quit my job and get paid to ride a bike, heh.


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## Pedrosanchezo (25 Nov 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> *sniff
> 
> I had a turbo and sold it about a year ago because I never used it. Then I need one again so ended up taking advantage of an offer in Halfords, last week. Done an FTHR test on Friday morning and to say that it was an enjoyable way to start the day would be a lie. Also been very close to getting a power meter of late but am going to give this virtual power a try on TR. As long as it's consistent then it should be of some benefit. Now I just need to fit in time for these sessions, along with commuting, Sat fast club run, Sun hilly social club run, BC Circuit coaching sessions and Tuesday night chaingangs  Wish I could just quit my job and get paid to ride a bike, heh.


Ooooft if i had to start my day with a TR workout i might not get out of bed.


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## Andy_G (8 Dec 2013)

I just done my first 8 minute test and i wont be posting it because its rather pathetic.

But
I wasnt feeling at my best and i feel asleep this afternoon and i woke up and 10 minutes later i was on it.


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## Pedrosanchezo (8 Dec 2013)

Andy_G said:


> I just done my first 8 minute test and i wont be posting it because its rather pathetic.
> 
> But
> I wasnt feeling at my best and i feel asleep this afternoon and i woke up and 10 minutes later i was on it.


Figuring out what to do with it is half the battle. Next effort is usually 10-15% better.


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## Andy_G (8 Dec 2013)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Figuring out what to do with it is half the battle. Next effort is usually *10-15% better*.


I'll be gutted if its only that much and looking at others i need to double it.


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## Brad123 (19 Dec 2013)

This is a silly question. But after down loading RT, can it run with out been on line? eg use it at work were I have no internet. 
Would like to give it a go.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Dec 2013)

Yes, you only need a connection to download the workouts initially

And for updates /uploading


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## Andy_G (29 Dec 2013)

Ive just done my 4th Crit race in which i am pants at but what the heck i enjoy it, but with 7 rounds to go im now looking at i really do need to step it up.
So im looking at the "Novice competitor high volume plan".

Do these plans actually work, i dont expect over night results but by the last race i'd expect to see something.


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## Pedrosanchezo (29 Dec 2013)

@Andy_G 

I think it depends on what training you are currently doing. If you are not doing anything overly specific then i would suggest you could see improvements reasonably fast. If you are already training with intervals and/or race pace efforts then it might not be so obvious in the short term. 

The Novice competitor plan is very focussed on short intervals which would simulate a race. The goal will be to increase power, recover faster after big efforts and increase the amount of times you can go into the red and the duration. IMO the high volume one will be pretty hard work so it might be a nice change to try the weekend sessions outside. 2 hours plus on a turbo sounds like hell to me. I'd rather structure a few planned routes and ride them accordingly. 

As the weeks progress the intervals become pretty brutal through the week so if you are still racing bear in mind that you will want to give at least a few days between these sessions and race day. Try and make sure to recover properly too, rest and nutrition. 

Bottom line, there is no doubt in my mind that upon completing this plan you would see results. Again though, it will be bloody hard going.


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## Brad123 (29 Dec 2013)

Signed up last night and did the 20 minute test this morning
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/577343-20-Minute-Test
Like the feedback as I am riding. Now have to find some workout to do.
Has anyone got any ideas. Looking at doing 10 mile TT and may be a race and just be a stronger rider next year


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## S1m0n (30 Dec 2013)

Good effort! Though I do think you probably went a little too easy if you managed 1 min at over 300 watts towards the end. You should have been on your knees and taking a really close cross-eyed view of your stem.

I think there is a bit of a gap in the base building end of the training plans for people who don't want to spend more than 1hr 15 at a time in the torture chamber. 

I tend to pick and choose my workouts to suit what mood I'm in if I'm just in the off season like Slide Mountain and the harder (because of the 12min intervals rather than 10) Mount field. 

They build programs are good and build generally 1hr to 1:15 long with longer weekend sessions which, as Pedrosanchezo does, I perform these in the fresh air.

If you are planing doing some time trials then there are specific plans for these. I've not tried them yet but will be this year as since I've just happened upon a Cervelo P2C, Time trials are what I will be doing in 2014.

Good luck


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## Brad123 (30 Dec 2013)

Thanks, I started off a bit quicker. Then after 10 minute I back off a litte bit, as I started to feel my legs going. Some how got going for the last minute. Maybe should not have back off.
I thought my max HR was 180 but I sore hit 181 at the end of the 20 minute. WOW
Have be looking at this http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/97-20-minute-power-accelerator-e3-training-solutions- think I going to do the 6 weeks and see how it goes
Question; After I did the test I found the back tyre was a bit soft. Normally ride at 110 psi found it at 86 psi would that have made the test a bit easer or not?


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## S1m0n (31 Dec 2013)

I think you should be doing some base before launching into the 20 minute power accelerator, it looks quite brutal. Perhaps work 6 weeks back from race date before starting. 

110 to 86psi in a 1 hour turbo ride isn't right. A soft rear tyre will make thinks so much more difficult for you.


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## Leescfc79 (2 Jan 2014)

I stumbled across TR while looking at sufferfest videos in an attempt to make the turbo a bit more interesting, I've been cycling for about a year and have no particular plans apart from wanting to lose a bit of weight and to get fitter/faster. I thought $10 a month is cheaper than gym membership and as I'm not a massive fan of cycling in the rain I have just signed up and just completed the 8 minutes test.

I really enjoyed having the screen telling me what to do and having some structure to it rather than just plodding along as I did before. My FTP came in at 195 so think I'm going to follow the traditional base trianing plan and see what happens, I can tell I've had a workout too!


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## Pedrosanchezo (2 Jan 2014)

Leescfc79 said:


> I stumbled across TR while looking at sufferfest videos in an attempt to make the turbo a bit more interesting, I've been cycling for about a year and have no particular plans apart from wanting to lose a bit of weight and to get fitter/faster. I thought $10 a month is cheaper than gym membership and as I'm not a massive fan of cycling in the rain I have just signed up and just completed the 8 minutes test.
> 
> I really enjoyed having the screen telling me what to do and having some structure to it rather than just plodding along as I did before. My FTP came in at 195 so think I'm going to follow the traditional base trianing plan and see what happens, I can tell I've had a workout too!


Do a base plan and then retest afterward. The test always comes up slightly low to begin with as you don't realise just how much you can or should push it. After a 6-8 week plan you will know much more about TR and your body. Good luck. Keep us all posted.


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## Brad123 (3 Jan 2014)

S1m0n said:


> I think you should be doing some base before launching into the 20 minute power accelerator, it looks quite brutal. Perhaps work 6 weeks back from race date before starting.
> 
> 110 to 86psi in a 1 hour turbo ride isn't right. A soft rear tyre will make thinks so much more difficult for you.



I forgot to check the tyre befor I started only after wards I checked it and it was at 86psi. Have deleted the 20 minute test I did just was not happy with it because of the tyre pressure. 
Thanks for the advice on 20 minute power but have done the first week going to stick with it and see how it goes.


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## Brad123 (5 Jan 2014)

Had a good ride this morning. Sweat running of me and frost on the shed roof (yes I was out side under the awnind). Wife thought I was made. Did the mount of Hope


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## Andy_G (11 Jan 2014)

When doing the TR workouts it says for arguments sake 90 power, should you do what it says or go with what your comfortable with, only because the power never seems high enough.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 Jan 2014)

Andy_G said:


> When doing the TR workouts it says for arguments sake 90 power, should you do what it says or go with what your comfortable with, only because the power never seems high enough.


Then your FTP is set wrong


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## Pedrosanchezo (11 Jan 2014)

Andy_G said:


> When doing the TR workouts it says for arguments sake 90 power, should you do what it says or go with what your comfortable with, only because the power never seems high enough.


Yeh do the 20 minute test. Make sure and pace yourself but you should finish the 20 minute effort (60 minutes full session) completely buggered!! 

It also depends on the sessions you are doing. I could do some of the interval sessions at 15-20% higher than my FTP. I couldn't say the same for some of the TT specific sessions. Depends on the rider and their strengths. You can also adjust the session to your needs by adding 5% upwards to the intensity level. 

I've created my own workouts now and find these are more tailored to my needs. Well worth a look at the creator app should this appeal to you.


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## Brad123 (29 Jan 2014)

Still going strong with the 20 minute power accelerator, into the 4 week. I am enjoying the program. Battle my way through Crag again last night. Find it dam hard. Just not enough rest ( it 6x4 at Threshold/Low-VO2max with 45sec rest) the first 3 is hard work but the next 3 just cant hold the mark. Drop off bye -4 to -10.


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## S1m0n (29 Jan 2014)

Could you send me link to your trainierroad workouts, I'd be interested to see how you're getting on with it. I'm still doing build workouts half on Trainerroad and half on the Wattbike at the gym. The wattages appear similarly calibrated, at least to my legs


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## Rob3rt (29 Jan 2014)

Brad123 said:


> Still going strong with the 20 minute power accelerator, into the 4 week. I am enjoying the program. Battle my way through Crag again last night. Find it dam hard. Just not enough rest ( it 6x4 at Threshold/Low-VO2max with 45sec rest) *the first 3 is hard work but the next 3 just cant hold the mark. Drop off bye -4 to -10*.



This is to be expected, the 1st few you are fresh.

Andrew Coggan and Hunter Allen propose a system for determining when to abandon an inteveral session (or how to decide how many reps to do, in a more positive sense) and the baseline they suggest you use is the power in the 3rd interval (which they deem as the repeatable interval). Then they propose you should stop when your power drops by a certain percentage of the power of this repeatable 3rd interval (the percentage varies depending on the duration and intensity of the interval, you would have to look up the table to get the correct values). In the case of a VO2 max interval (duration 3-5 mins) I think they propose a 8-10% drop in power from the 3rd interval is acceptable, any more and you are no longer training at the required intensity and should stop, you have done the optimal number of repeats.


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## Brad123 (29 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> This is to be expected, the 1st few you are fresh.
> 
> Andrew Coggan and Hunter Allen propose a system for determining when to abandon an inteveral session (or how to decide how many reps to do, in a more positive sense) and the baseline they suggest you use is the power in the 3rd interval (which they deem as the repeatable interval). Then they propose you should stop when your power drops by a certain percentage of the power of this repeatable 3rd interval (the percentage varies depending on the duration and intensity of the interval, you would have to look up the table to get the correct values). In the case of a VO2 max interval (duration 3-5 mins) I think they propose a 8-10% drop in power from the 3rd interval is acceptable, any more and you are no longer training at the required intensity and should stop, you have done the optimal number of repeats.


Have been wandering about that, at what point do I just give up. I normal try hang in. I will look up the table 
Thanks


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## Rob3rt (29 Jan 2014)

You should try to hang in for as long as you can (i.e. for the planned number of reps), but if for example you are aiming for 6 reps and do your 1st 3 intervals at 312W, 308W, 300W you take 300W as your repeatable power and keep repping. If your power drops below 90% of that 300W, so <270W, you stop as the intensity is too low to provide the training stimulation you are aiming for. So you might only get 5 reps in before you "fail".

If you complete the 6 reps without any significant power drop and could keep going before breaking the 10% drop off rule, then either A) You should do more reps or B) You are not going hard enough in the 6 reps planned.


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## Brad123 (29 Jan 2014)

S1m0n said:


> Could you send me link to your trainierroad workouts, I'd be interested to see how you're getting on with it. I'm still doing build workouts half on Trainerroad and half on the Wattbike at the gym. The wattages appear similarly calibrated, at least to my legs


Here is the work I did http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/678450-Crag


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## Leescfc79 (29 Jan 2014)

Just finished the last session of the 4 week traditional base training plan so going to have a couple of days rest and take the 8 minute test again, in a strange way I'm looking forward to the pain.

I'm going to go onto the next level of the base plan after, it look like it gets a bit more interesting from here.

Hopefully I'll see some improvements in my riding but it's keeping me on the turbo for longer than I ever thought possible without being bored and helping keep the weight off so for $10 a month I'm more than happy.


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## Fasta Asloth (29 Jan 2014)

Brad123 said:


> Here is the work I did http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/678450-Crag


Always the option of setting up a cyclechat team on trainerroad...?


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## medavidcook (30 Jan 2014)

what power meter do you use to work with TR?


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## Rob3rt (30 Jan 2014)

You don't need a power meter, which is why the whole TR website has been so successful!


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## medavidcook (30 Jan 2014)

cool so i got a grmin edge with the cadence and an elite trainer so that will work fine,

seems to good to be true, or i might just be dumb.


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## Rob3rt (30 Jan 2014)

You will need and ANT+ stick to plug into your computer to receive the data from the Garmin sensors.

The power reading given on screen is an estimate, based on speed and type of turbo trainer, this may be wildly inaccurate and not repeatable in some cases. The quality of the estimate will vary.


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## medavidcook (30 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> You will need and ANT+ stick to plug into your computer to receive the data from the Garmin sensors.
> 
> The power reading given on screen is an estimate, based on speed and type of turbo trainer, this may be wildly inaccurate and not repeatable in some cases. The quality of the estimate will vary.



ok cheers rob, i will get a stick


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## Herzog (31 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> The power reading given on screen is an estimate, based on speed and type of turbo trainer, this may be wildly inaccurate and not repeatable in some cases. The quality of the estimate will vary.


 
My Trainer Road FTP was actually way under what was actually measured using my power meter. The Trainer Road estimates seem to bear little relation to 'real world' cycling ability; a few friends have FTPs approaching top amateur levels despite not being able to hold 32 kph on the flat for 5 minutes. However, as long as your Trainer Road/turbo set up remains the same, it can be a pretty useful tool.


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## Rob3rt (31 Jan 2014)

Herzog said:


> My Trainer Road FTP was actually way under what was actually measured using my power meter. The Trainer Road estimates seem to bear little relation to 'real world' cycling ability; a few friends have FTPs approaching top amateur levels despite not being able to hold 32 kph on the flat for 5 minutes. However, as long as your Trainer Road/turbo set up remains the same, it can be a pretty useful tool.



There could be loads of reasons for that and it might not be a trainer road issue neccessarily. I have tested FTP on the turbo and on the road, using the same power meter and the road test results in a much higher 20 minute power and thus a much higher FTP estimate. On the turbo for 20 mins I will do 340 odd watts, in a 20 minute long hill climb I will do 370+W.


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## Herzog (31 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> There could be loads of reasons for that and it might not be a trainer road issue neccessarily. I have tested FTP on the turbo and on the road, using the same power meter and the road test results in a much higher 20 minute power and thus a much higher FTP estimate. On the turbo for 20 mins I will do 340 odd watts, in a 20 minute long hill climb I will do 370+W.


 
You're right, I too find road FTP higher than turbo FTP (tests conducted using same equipment, within a few days of each other after a decent rest) - using the road FTP on the turbo makes VO2 max sessions more challenging...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (31 Jan 2014)

Herzog said:


> My Trainer Road FTP was actually way under what was actually measured using my power meter. The Trainer Road estimates seem to bear little relation to 'real world' cycling ability; a few friends have FTPs approaching top amateur levels despite not being able to hold 32 kph on the flat for 5 minutes. However, as long as your Trainer Road/turbo set up remains the same, it can be a pretty useful tool.


For providing structure yes, accuracy no


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## Brad123 (31 Jan 2014)

What I like about TR it gives me some structure to a work out. I don't have a clue about FTP I know after I did the 20 minute test it set my FTP at 228. I now do all my work out at 228 FTP. Make sure my tyre pressure is the same and the pressure from the turbo onto the tyre is the same, and all the work outs that I done have been hard but doable just. After doing a one hours program I know it was a good work out.


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## Rob3rt (31 Jan 2014)

You do all of your training at FTP?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (31 Jan 2014)

FTP set to 228 - there is more often than not plenty of work above


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## Brad123 (31 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> You do all of your training at FTP?


Yes 


T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> FTP set to 228 - there is more often than not plenty of work above


I'm bizzy going through 20 minute power program. Most of the intervals are above 228. If I understand what you are saying


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## Rob3rt (31 Jan 2014)

Brad123 said:


> Yes
> 
> I'm bizzy going through 20 minute power program. Most of the intervals are above 228. If I understand what you are saying



Sounds like an utterly unintelligent way to train...


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## Brad123 (31 Jan 2014)

Rob3rt said:


> Sounds like an utterly unintelligent way to train...


OK


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## jamin100 (6 Dec 2014)

ive just signed up to TR and am now working my way through the intermediate base plan

Finding it quite encouraging at the moment


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