# Tank and military memorabilia collecting (don’t mention the war)



## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

A pensioner in Germany has been fined and had his collection of a WW2 tank, Flak 88mm AA gun, various weapons and uniforms confiscated and been ordered to pay a £200,000 fine for keeping them in the basement of his house. Sounds like a collectors dream.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58077039


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## MichaelW2 (4 Aug 2021)

A tank. In a house. Thank goodness it has been removed; did no one think of the children?


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## HMS_Dave (4 Aug 2021)

Panther tank? flak 88? So a rather large basement then!


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## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

Yes, I’d love to see a pic of the basement.

Looks like he’s set to receive a couple of million quid when they are sold, but what is he going to do with it at his age? I’m sure he rather have his collection back.


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## CanucksTraveller (4 Aug 2021)

I reckon having a Panther in your basement trumps having a tiger in your tank. 

The punishment seems very severe, do they take into account intent there? It doesn't seem so, the guy is 84 and hasn't harmed or threatened anyone with any of the items. Well, not since 1945 at least. 

Puts my WW1 bayonet to shame!


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## HMS_Dave (4 Aug 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I reckon having a Panther in your basement trumps having a tiger in your tank.
> 
> The punishment seems very severe, do they take into account intent there? It doesn't seem so, the guy is 84 and hasn't harmed or threatened anyone with any of the items. Well, not since 1945 at least.
> 
> Puts my WW1 bayonet to shame!


Given the state of the German Armed Forces as reported in recent years, this old man could have threatened the entire country with that arsenal. 

That maniac!


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

I collect WW2 Japanese military sake' cups. My rarest is this one found in Okinawa.


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

The Panther alone is worth vast sums alone. They are rare as rocking horse poo and some for obvious reasons. If it is still original with provenance the price can sky rocket much further.


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## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

Such a shame, puts paid to his plans to a one man invasion of Poland before the winter sets in.


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## MichaelW2 (4 Aug 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Panther tank? flak 88? So a rather large basement then!


Rommel had about 2 dozen of the 88mm guns which he used in direct fire anti tank mode. British troops claimed that this "wasnt fair"
The RAF and US bombers kept 10,930 of these guns pointing up rather than to the East which may have been their major contribution.


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## RoubaixCube (4 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> A pensioner in Germany has been fined and had his collection of a WW2 tank, Flak 88mm AA gun, various weapons and uniforms confiscated and been ordered to pay a £200,000 fine for keeping them in the basement of his house. Sounds like a collectors dream.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58077039
> 
> View attachment 602592




Huh.... In the previous BBC article, they even stated that he had also had a Torpedo. No mention of it here.


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## stephec (4 Aug 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I reckon having a Panther in your basement trumps having a tiger in your tank.
> 
> The punishment seems very severe, do they take into account intent there? It doesn't seem so, *the guy is 84 and hasn't harmed or threatened anyone with any of the items. Well, not since 1945 at least. *
> 
> Puts my WW1 bayonet to shame!


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

They are designed to do terrible things but the engineering is stunning. Is now a good time to say that yes I'm an Old hippy but complete German WW2 machinery geek!


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## HMS_Dave (4 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> They are designed to do terrible things but the engineering is stunning. Is now a good time to say that yes I'm an Old hippy but complete German WW2 machinery geek!


With you there. WW2 was cruel and horrible as with all war. But fascinated by the history of it...


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## Sittingduck (4 Aug 2021)

RoubaixCube said:


> Huh.... In the previous BBC article, they even stated that he had also had a Torpedo. No mention of it here.



Probably kept that in the sub-floor


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## Rooster1 (4 Aug 2021)

I have a tank shell and tank mounted gun shell in my office - I am nuts about tanks too.


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

Had a drive of a T34 once. How anyone spent any time in them locked down and under fire is beyond me. Driving at any speed is terrifying enough when your view is effectively through a letterbox.


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

Weirdly I love bridge laying tracked vehicles as well. Totally mad but brilliant. German military motorcycle sidecars are my dream machine.


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## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

You'll just have to content yourself with one of these for now:


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> You'll just have to content yourself with one of these for now:
> 
> 
> View attachment 602654


That's the kiddie right there! I have that kit but have kept it unopened in a cupboard.


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## Xipe Totec (4 Aug 2021)

Dunno why but I really want a Kettenkrad. Would it be sacrilege to paint it bright metallic pink?


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

They are an absolute ba*tard to ride/drive! Not that long ago cheap as chips if you could find one now they are around 60k restored.


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

Xipe Totec said:


> Dunno why but I really want a Kettenkrad. Would it be sacrilege to paint it bright metallic pink?
> 
> View attachment 602658


It really would be sacrilege. They have a great ammo trailer as well although very rare.


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## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> They are an absolute ba*tard to ride/drive! Not that long ago cheap as chips if you could find one now they are around 60k restored.


Where on earth do you sit?

You legs would dangle on the tracks? But maybe your jackboots would help protect them.


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## Xipe Totec (4 Aug 2021)

If I had the skills/time I could make one - maybe start with something ridiculous like a Goldwing or a Rocket III. Could paint it whatever colour I wanted then! 


Cycleops said:


> Where on earth do you sit?


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## Cycleops (4 Aug 2021)

Okay so there's a cover.

Main problem would be the tracks I guess.


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## Oldhippy (4 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Where on earth do you sit?
> 
> You legs would dangle on the tracks? But maybe your jackboots would help protect them.


You sit in it on a seat. Two foot pedals handlebar steering, largely obsolete, clutch and brake. Rubbing tummy and patting head kind of affair.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Weirdly I love bridge laying tracked vehicles as well. Totally mad but brilliant. German military motorcycle sidecars are my dream machine.







Stumbled upon one in a Spanish bike museum last year funnily enough.


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## Cycleops (5 Aug 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 602817
> 
> Stumbled upon one in a Spanish bike museum last year funnily enough.


Is that a Zundapp or BMW do you know?


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## Oldhippy (5 Aug 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View attachment 602817
> 
> Stumbled upon one in a Spanish bike museum last year funnily enough.


R75, what a beautiful totally over engineered bit of kit.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Is that a Zundapp or BMW do you know?


Dunno. It was brown.


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## Joey Shabadoo (5 Aug 2021)

Another one from the same place - think it ran on a bungee cord


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## Oldhippy (5 Aug 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Dunno. It was brown.


BMW. Zundapp equally lovely in many ways but the Beemer just has that 'Don't mess with me vibe going on.


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## Oldhippy (5 Aug 2021)

I'm an anorak!


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## Oldhippy (5 Aug 2021)

I have lots. 😁


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## Cycleops (7 Aug 2021)

Just discovered this on YouTube, the story behind this in Mark Felton's War Stories. I know some of you will be interested, it's a fascinating story.

View: https://youtu.be/1XIkZgCJZCs


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## Profpointy (7 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> Had a drive of a T34 once. How anyone spent any time in them locked down and under fire is beyond me. Driving at any speed is terrifying enough when your view is effectively through a letterbox.



As a (former) company car driver we use to get a newsletter from the leasing company with various safety advice. Amongst the usual platitudes on winter driving safety was this real gem about cleaning the ice off the windows properly "don't drive off like a tank commander".


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## Profpointy (7 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> I'm an anorak!



I'm going to have to add that to my wish list. Already have a good foot of tank, half track and army truck books


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## HMS_Dave (8 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Just discovered this on YouTube, the story behind this in Mark Felton's War Stories. I know some of you will be interested, it's a fascinating story.
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/1XIkZgCJZCs



Im a regular to Mark Felton's stories. What he digs up is quite amazing. I thought i knew a lot about the ins and outs of WW2, but then i do believe he is a professor and has travelled the world in study...


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## Bazzer (8 Aug 2021)

HMS_Dave said:


> Im a regular to Mark Felton's stories. What he digs up is quite amazing. I thought i knew a lot about the ins and outs of WW2, but then i do believe he is a professor and has travelled the world in study...


Yes, Mark Felton is excellent.
As to war memorabilia, I have a couple of (disarmed) hand grenades, which I believe are of middle eastern origin.


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## Joey Shabadoo (8 Aug 2021)

Bazzer said:


> Yes, Mark Felton is excellent.
> As to war memorabilia, I have a couple of (disarmed) hand grenades, which I believe are of middle eastern origin.


Not ... the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!!?


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## Lozz360 (8 Aug 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> A tank. In a house. Thank goodness it has been removed; did no one think of the children?


You mean you don’t have a tank in your house? I guess you have a combination boiler then...


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## Milzy (8 Aug 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> Rommel had about 2 dozen of the 88mm guns which he used in direct fire anti tank mode. British troops claimed that this "wasnt fair"
> The RAF and US bombers kept 10,930 of these guns pointing up rather than to the East which may have been their major contribution.


It was totally fair. Poor tactics by allied forces.


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## Milzy (8 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> A pensioner in Germany has been fined and had his collection of a WW2 tank, Flak 88mm AA gun, various weapons and uniforms confiscated and been ordered to pay a £200,000 fine for keeping them in the basement of his house. Sounds like a collectors dream.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58077039
> 
> View attachment 602592


On that arms dealers program they spent 4 years making one perfect it was worth 1.4 million originally but it was been shipped to Australia where it was worth 14 million. Mental.


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## Illaveago (8 Aug 2021)

I like watching Combat Dealers. It is interesting what he comes up with and demonstrates in his programmes. I liked the demonstration of the PIAT and 6 pounder anti tank guns .


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## Andy in Germany (8 Aug 2021)

Cycleops said:


> You'll just have to content yourself with one of these for now:
> View attachment 602654





Oldhippy said:


> That's the kiddie right there! I have that kit but have kept it unopened in a cupboard.









It doesn't take that long to build...


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## Milzy (8 Aug 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> View attachment 603195
> 
> 
> It doesn't take that long to build...


Can you ride one of those on a normal car license?


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## Oldhippy (8 Aug 2021)

No it has to be a motorcycle licence.


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## Bazzer (8 Aug 2021)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> Not ... the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!!?


Could be squire.
At least I have protection from killer bunnies.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> No it has to be a motorcycle licence.



I believe both rear wheels were driven, so it was probably a pretty powerful beast.


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## Oldhippy (8 Aug 2021)

You can choose two wheel drive or one. One of my favourite human inventions of all time that bike is.


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## Tail End Charlie (9 Aug 2021)

Saw this at an engine show a while ago. It's a Cossack Neval i.e a replica. I wouldn't mind owning it though.


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## Cycleops (9 Aug 2021)

I remember those Cossacks, a poor man's beemer. I wonder what happened to them?


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## Oldhippy (10 Aug 2021)

Tail End Charlie said:


> Saw this at an engine show a while ago. It's a Cossack Neval i.e a replica. I wouldn't mind owning it though.
> 
> View attachment 603433
> 
> ...


It is a Ural, Cossack and Neval were trading names. The story goes that the Germans gave the Russians some R75's and they back engineered them. Many made in WW2. Did what they said on the box. They were rubbish early on. I had an 05 plate from new and pretty much lived on, out of it. Went everywhere. Stupidly sold it, regret to this day! You can still buy new but they are ruined with disc brakes and fuel injection.


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## rogerzilla (14 Aug 2021)

The OP reminds me of the Father Ted episode with the collector of Nazi memorabilia, who had an actual aged Nazi in his collection.


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## Drago (26 Aug 2021)

A chap I know who shall remain nameless recently sought my advice about his Luger.

Yes, Luger.

He's in his 80's and was in the Malayan Scouts, and then an officer in the Gurkhas.

Anyway, his concern that after so long the elderly ammunition might let him down if he encountered a "hobbledyhoy" in his house in the dark.

I had a fit of the vapours and marched him to a local cop shop to hand it in. He told them he'd finally got around to clearing out his dads old stuff and found it there.

He now keeps his khukuri next to the bed. He has it all planned, "...don't hurt me, I'm an old man!", and the moment their guard is down he intends to give them the good news. I almost feel sorry for any teenage sheetbag who might break in thinking him an easy touch, only to be faced with a guerrilla warfare, counter insurgency and jungle warefare expert.

A couple of teens snapped the aerial off his car a couple of years ago, and one ended up on his arriss with his nose smeared all over the place and the other with a dislocated shoulder. We all cheered when he heard the news on that one.


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## Profpointy (26 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> It is a Ural, Cossack and Neval were trading names. The story goes that the Germans gave the Russians some R75's and they back engineered them. Many made in WW2. Did what they said on the box. They were rubbish early on. I had an 05 plate from new and pretty much lived on, out of it. Went everywhere. Stupidly sold it, regret to this day! You can still buy new but they are ruined with disc brakes and fuel injection.



Back in the 80s someone in the UK was importing them brand new, and supoosedly they rebuilt them before selling. It seems the Russian (albeit German derived) engineering was basically OK. it they were very shoddily assembled.

I seem to recall the you could even get a two-wheel-drive version where the sidecar wheel was driven as well as the bike rear wheel. These were only available in the "left hand drive" versions with the sidecar on the wrong side. The one in the picture seems to have a drive shaft to the sidecar. Quite appealing really


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## Oldhippy (26 Aug 2021)

They are splendid machines indeed. Mine arrived in a giant crate and I enjoyed setting it up. Right hand sidecar is 1 or 2 wheel drive while leftie is 1 wheel only. That will climb trees though! On one occasion I had tubes connected to the exhausts and was up to my knees in mud and it just ploughed through it. Dumbest thing I ever did was sell it.


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## Profpointy (26 Aug 2021)

Oldhippy said:


> They are splendid machines indeed. Mine arrived in a giant crate and I enjoyed setting it up. Right hand sidecar is 1 or 2 wheel drive while leftie is 1 wheel only. That will climb trees though! On one occasion I had tubes connected to the exhausts and was up to my knees in mud and it just ploughed through it. Dumbest thing I ever did was sell it.



I could be rather tempted, albeit need to await the long term plan and have off-street parking. That said there was a lovely Ariel square four with Watsonian Dan Dare style sidecar on fleabay the other day. Again not practical left on the street. The practicality point being more about working on the thing, perhaps for an extended period, than worrying about the bike coming to harm


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## Drago (26 Aug 2021)

I know a chap who has a Dnepr, albeit without the chair. Its a bit of a state and hes got it running and is intending to keep the patina.


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