# Hurtling down a hill with hands on brakes, wanting to indicate you're turning right



## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

How do you do it?. It happens quite a lot There you are flying down a steep hill,with the usual traffic up your backside,with the motorist behind you thinking why's he/she not letting me pass? You're not because you want to turn right at the next turning,but you can't put your hand out to indicate, as it'd mean taking your vice like grip off the front brake. You can't just use the back brake as it's not a safe thing to do,so how do you indicate? I've tried taking my hand off the brake for a second and sticking my arm out frantically to show my intention to turn right. Sometimes it's just not worth the risk and i pull over to the kerb to let the impatient so and so's pass,then when it's clear i make my move to that right turning junction i'm after.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2017)

Take primary, indicate before the brakey bit, lots of over the should looks, brake hard to a speed slow enough to indicate again before turning right?


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## Heigue'r (11 Sep 2017)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/indicator-vest.223543/unread


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## Milzy (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> How do you do it?. It happens quite a lot There you are flying down a steep hill,with the usual traffic up your backside,with the motorist behind you thinking why's he/she not letting me pass? You're not because you want to turn right at the next turning,but you can't put your hand out to indicate, as it'd mean taking your vice like grip off the front brake. You can't just use the back brake as it's not a safe thing to do,so how do you indicate? I've tried taking my hand off the brake for a second and sticking my arm out frantically to show my intention to turn right. Sometimes it's just not worth the risk and i pull over to the kerb to let the impatient so and so's pass,then when it's clear i make my move to that right turning junction i'm after.


I usually manage it but feel my self pulling forwards and out of control. I don't think there's a great way tbh apart from no indication.


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## S-Express (11 Sep 2017)

Stick your leg out


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## classic33 (11 Sep 2017)

Heigue'r said:


> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/indicator-vest.223543/unread


Only good for left turns.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

S-Express said:


> Stick your leg out


You may be joking,but i've even done that is the past,when i've had that idiot trying to overtake me as i approach the junction i'm after turning into.


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## winjim (11 Sep 2017)

If you're going too fast to safely carry out a manoeuvre, abort the manoeuvre. You shouldn't be going so fast. Slow down safely and come back to the turn.


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

I would first slow to a speed that would allow me to safely carry out my obs drills, indicate, position myself, and complete the manoeuvre safely.


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## Heigue'r (11 Sep 2017)

Yeah but...it can be turned upside down if its only right turns


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## Welsh wheels (11 Sep 2017)

Stand up out of the saddle and wiggle your right butt cheek.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't hurtle.


Sometimes it's hard not to. If a hill is very steep and your brakes are wet then......


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

...get off and walk.


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## nickyboy (11 Sep 2017)

It's a problem I have around here. There is a sharp right down a hill on a road that bends sharply to the left. So I can easily be out of sight for a car behind me

My somewhat crappy solution is that I take primary whilst the car can still see me, indicate right just before going round the bend, whilst at the same time trying to scrub off enough speed with my back brake to safely turn right. It's 10%+ so it isn't easy. Usually I end up making a very fast indication, then quickly hand back on the front brake to get some speed off

I think most important is have a good look behind, most drivers realise then that you're going to do something other than just carrying straight on


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Take primary, indicate before the brakey bit,* lots of over the should looks*, brake hard to a speed slow enough to indicate again before turning right?


No point in me looking over my right shoulder, as i can't see out of my right eye. I just rely on sound and hope there's someone up there looking out for me.


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## CUBE CRD (11 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> I would first slow to a speed that would allow me to safely carry out my obs drills, indicate, position myself, and complete the manoeuvre safely.



This sums it up perfectly.....


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

nickyboy said:


> most drivers realise then that you're going to do something other than just carrying straight on



Most maybe,but not all do. I had some pillock cut me up at the lights. He wound down the window and asked why i'd moved into the middle of the road,"slowing him down". I told him that i'd indicated to move right,as the left of the lane was badly damaged with potholes. I also said to him that he should've kept a safe distance allowing for a cyclist's unexpected maneuvers due to road conditions etc. The driver of the car told me he was an off duty policeman and he'd be "keeping a look out for me doing stupid things in future". What a total tosser!!


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> No point in me looking over my right shoulder, as i can't see out of my right eye. I just rely on sound and hope there's someone up there looking out for me.


It ain't for your benefit, but for the following driver's. Body language on road counts for a lot imo.


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## AndyRM (11 Sep 2017)

You can't ride a bike down a hill but think you're OK driving a car?


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## flake99please (11 Sep 2017)

Treat yourself to an indicator vest. Perfect for cycling, walking, camping, shopping.

If you don't feel safe making the right turn. Slow down and come to a complete stop on the left side of the road just beyond of the junction. Walk across road with bike, and then either take a left turn (on bike) from the other side of the road OR walk with bike beyond junction entrance, and resume journey from there.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

AndyRM said:


> You can't ride a bike down a hill but think you're OK driving a car?


What's that supposed to mean?


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> I just rely on sound. .



Sonar, like a bat?


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## vickster (11 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't hurtle.


This, just slow down. If this is a roadbike, consider cross lever brakes on the bars to facilitate braking from a more upright position


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Sonar, like a bat?


Yes,something like that.


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## vickster (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> No point in me looking over my right shoulder, as i can't see out of my right eye. I just rely on sound and hope there's someone up there looking out for me.


How do you manage to change lanes safely in a car?


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## Profpointy (11 Sep 2017)

vickster said:


> How do you manage to change lanes safely in a car?



Not quite the same as you don't need to operate the brakes with your right hand while holding your hand out the window.


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## Crackle (11 Sep 2017)

Body language. There's always a junction, road surface, etc, which stops you from signalling at the ideal time, so you're reliant on someone having seen your first signal or intention but road position and body language should do the rest and keep enough awareness to get out the farking way if they don't see you or don't care and even if you can't see Accy, you should probably still turn your head as it's a big clue to a following driver, plus it points your ear in the right direction.


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## vickster (11 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Not quite the same as you don't need to operate the brakes with your right hand while holding your hand out the window.


No but you do need to be able to see surely for shoulder check


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## 400bhp (11 Sep 2017)

Try standing out of the saddle, as it's just another way of using body language to indicate you are going to do something different than just continuing to the bottom of the hill.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

vickster said:


> How do you manage to change lanes safely in a car?


With the use of mirrors.


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## CanucksTraveller (11 Sep 2017)

+1 for looking over the shoulder. Make good eye contact early on, and the cars normally hold back. Reinforce it with a single hand signal, and after another look over the shoulder to confirm that the car is holding, reposition yourself well into primary. Do your braking and steering with two hands, and complete the manoeuvre. 

If all else fails, simply stop, reassess, and do it in slow time. At worst, you lose 30 seconds of your day. Usually plan A works well however.


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

You indicate with mirrors? Thoroughly confused.


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## Will Spin (11 Sep 2017)

Try to get the braking bit mostly done before you need to take your right hand off the bars to signal so you are not left with having to brake heavily with the back brake.


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

Will Spin said:


> Try to get the braking bit mostly done before you need to take your right hand off the bars to signal so you are not left with having to brake heavily with the back brake.



Braking before they signal. Just like the average car driver.


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## Profpointy (11 Sep 2017)

It is a genuinely tricky thing. I had a nasty right turn on my commute; Blackboy Hill in Bristol if anyone knows it. As it was downhill you had to make good progress to get across to the right hand side of road, momentarilly signal before having to brake pretty hard. Even going slow you needed to front brake to merely stop.

To be honest I think the UK arrangment of brakes is the wrong way round as a missed left signal is neither here nor there but signalling right whilst (otherwise unnacountably) being in the middle of the road is pretty important. Sadly, being an old dog, it's bit too late for me to learn a new trick now, as well as conflicting with my motorcycle.


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## si_c (11 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> To be honest I think the UK arrangment of brakes is the wrong way round as a missed left signla is neither here nor there but signalling right whilst (otherwise unnacountably) being in the middle of the road is pretty important. Sadly, being an old dog, it's bit too late for me to learn a new teick now, as well as conflicting with my motorcycle


But if you rode a bike on the continent where the brakes are swapped, you'd still have the same problem.


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## Profpointy (11 Sep 2017)

si_c said:


> But if you rode a bike on the continent where the brakes are swapped, you'd still have the same problem.



What we need to do is have an international bike swap arrangment


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## si_c (11 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> What we need to do is have an international bike swap arrangment



Perhaps, but I still prefer to operate my front brake with my stronger hand. I avoid problems with signalling by swerving across the carriageway in a totally unpredictable manner whilst hoping those behind me can brake in time.


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## Kestevan (11 Sep 2017)

Most of my bikes have the brakes the Euro way round (front on left) - and the one that doesn't will get swapped over when I can be bothered.
Makes signalling right much easier; and as an added bonus it's also easier to shift down the cassette whilst breaking ready for an easier start.


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## mustang1 (11 Sep 2017)

I shake my head to the right at the same frequency a normal car indicator would do. You should see me in action, it's really rather entertaining. 

Kidding aside, I am actually not kidding. That's how I roll.


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## Buck (11 Sep 2017)

nickyboy said:


> It's a problem I have around here. There is a sharp right down a hill on a road that bends sharply to the left. So I can easily be out of sight for a car behind me
> 
> My somewhat crappy solution is that I take primary whilst the car can still see me, indicate right just before going round the bend, whilst at the same time trying to scrub off enough speed with my back brake to safely turn right. It's 10%+ so it isn't easy. Usually I end up making a very fast indication, then quickly hand back on the front brake to get some speed off
> 
> I think most important is have a good look behind, most drivers realise then that you're going to do something other than just carrying straight on



This is what I tend to do and recall doing the same yesterday on a couple of descents - lots of over the shoulder looks as well - drivers hung well back and then a thank you to them as I turn.


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2017)

This is a situation I'm familiar with, from the days when I regularly had to make the descent of Elmstead Lane and turn right into Elmstead Woods station.

The simplest solution is to signal well in advance of the turn. Once you are happy that no one is trying to overtake you, move out to the centre of the road, then return your right hand to the bars to apply the brake in plenty of time to be able to stop if necessary.

Having signalled your intention to the vehicles behind you and moved into position, there's no need to keep signalling all the way to the turn.

I would never rely on drivers being able to interpret my intentions from 'body language' alone. That's asking for trouble.


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> No point in me looking over my right shoulder, as i can't see out of my right eye. I just rely on sound and hope there's someone up there looking out for me.


The look is for the benefit or people behind you, people usually look around before performing a maneuver. A mirror,for the bike, might be a good investment for you


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## User6179 (11 Sep 2017)

On a busy main road if I am turning right into a side road and there is traffic behind and coming the opposite direction meaning I would be in the middle of the road waiting to turn then I just pull to the side of the road and wait till the road is clear, if you cant indicate just do the same thing.


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2017)

Inertia said:


> The look is for the benefit or people behind you



I can't possibly agree with this. How would they benefit?

I look over my shoulder occasionally in normal riding anyway, whether I'm turning or not, just for general awareness.

Relying on audible cues to tell you what's going on behind you is also insane, especially if you're in a built-up environment where sound cues can be very unreliable, even misleading.


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## Globalti (11 Sep 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Body language on road counts for a lot imo.



Absolutely. An attentive and experienced driver will assess other road users' behaviour in seconds, whether the other user is in a car or on two wheels. In the days when Police used to patrol and do proactive Policing it was called "copper's instinct" and it was what got drunk drivers stopped and checked. Nowadays you can drink drive and get away with it until you have an accident; I've even heard it's on the increase in quiet rural areas.

Anyway, successful manoeuvers depend on you persuading other drivers to behave in the way you want, which means driving or riding with assertion and clear expression of intent. The IAM teaches drivers to occupy road space, for example if approaching oncoming drivers who might want to squeeze past a car parked on their side, don't slow down and dither in the gutter but maintain speed and course in such a way as to discourage them. When I'm turning right in front of following traffic that means keeping up a decent speed, drawing attention to myself by cycling well out from the kerb then turning and establishing eye contact and giving an exaggerated hand signal with pointed fingers showing my intention to turn. Unless they are idiots they should have no more objection to you doing this than they would to a car or a motorbike carrying out the same manouever in front of them. However if drivers see you wobbling slowly along without purpose and assertion they will dismiss you as of no concern and they will try to squeeze past.

Disclaimer: this doesn't take account of blind, drunk, texting, distracted or just mad drivers.


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> I can't possibly agree with this. How would they benefit?
> 
> I look over my shoulder occasionally in normal riding anyway, whether I'm turning or not, just for general awareness.
> 
> Relying on audible cues to tell you what's going on behind you is also insane, especially if you're in a built-up environment where sound cues can be very unreliable, even misleading.


Im not sure where I said relying on audio cues is a good idea.

I meant that if he looks over his shoulder it may help the people behind know he is about to do something. That along with moving out towards the middle of the road to perform the turn should help give them the message.


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2017)

Inertia said:


> Im not sure where I said relying on audio cues is a good idea.



That bit wasn't aimed at you. HTH.



> I meant that if he looks over his shoulder it may help the people behind know he is about to do something.



...or it may not mean anything of the kind. An 'experienced' driver might use their spidey-sense to make an educated guess but it would be making rash assumptions about the abilities of other road users to rely on indicating your intentions this way.


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> That bit wasn't aimed at you. HTH.
> 
> ...or it may not mean anything of the kind. An 'experienced' driver might use their spidey-sense to make an educated guess but it would be making rash assumptions about the abilities of other road users to rely on indicating your intentions this way.


I didn't say to rely on it, just that looking over your shoulder serves more than one purpose. I should probably have been clearer in my original post.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> That bit wasn't aimed at you. HTH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...or it may not mean anything of the kind. An 'experienced' driver might use their spidey-sense to make an educated guess but it would be making rash assumptions about the abilities of other road users to rely on indicating your intentions this way.


At worst it will make even a nobber driver, who looks and sees, momentarily think "WTF is that nobber cyclist doing?" which is more consideration than the cyclist might otherwise get.


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## smutchin (11 Sep 2017)

GrumpyGregry said:


> At worst it will make even a nobber driver, who looks and sees, momentarily think "WTF is that nobber cyclist doing?" which is more consideration than the cyclist might otherwise get.



...or they might not even notice.

I get overtaken even when clearly signalling right. You just can't make assumptions or guesses about the behaviour, attitude or observation skills of other road users.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> ...or they might not even notice.
> 
> I get overtaken even when clearly signalling right. You just can't make assumptions or guesses about the behaviour, attitude or observation skills of other road users.


If they don't notice you are in trouble no matter you do.


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## Ian H (11 Sep 2017)

If I was hurtling down hill and I had my brakes hard on all the time, I think I'd decide that some urgent maintenance was required.


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## Ian H (11 Sep 2017)

smutchin said:


> ...or they might not even notice.
> 
> I get overtaken even when clearly signalling right. You just can't make assumptions or guesses about the behaviour, attitude or observation skills of other road users.



I find that a glance back can be reliably used to inform a driver that you're aware of them. That's about it.


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## Alan O (11 Sep 2017)

It's a situation that never* happens to me because, like a number of others here, I don't go too fast to be able to carry out all aspects of any manoeuvre safely** (within reasonable expectations of what I can see and predict). That includes not hurtling towards a turn I'm about to make, and never riding so fast that I'm likely to need a death grip on my brakes (death grips on brakes are for unpredictable emergencies only).

Wet and hard to brake when going downhill? Start the braking earlier, perhaps even at the top of the descent, and keep to a safe speed - and just plain stop if necessary. And, as others have suggested, perhaps make the turn on foot and get back on the bike after the junction.

Realise too late how close you are to the turn and you don't have the time to slow sufficiently, indicate and make the turn safely? Abort the manoeuvre, go straight ahead, then turn round and come back to it safely.

All pretty obvious safe cycling, I'd have thought.

Alan

(*Well, hardly ever... and I'm never never sick at sea)
(** Yeah, I'm a boring old git)


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## Randomnerd (11 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't hurtle.


Good word. Less hurtling all round Accy. And everyone else.


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## Alan O (11 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> Good word. Less hurtling all round Accy. And everyone else.


"Anyone know where Accy is?"
"He's just gone out for a hurtle."


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> Good word. Less hurtling all round Accy. And everyone else.


When i said hurtling i really meant doing about 15 -25mph. To me that's hurtling,these days. It's still fast enough to make me lose control of my bike though,if i stick my hand out for a few seconds to hopefully let those behind me know my intentions.


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> When i said hurtling i really meant doing about 15 -25mph. To me that's hurtling,these days. It's still fast enough to make me lose control of my bike though,if i stick my hand out for a few seconds to hopefully let those behind me know my intentions.


Well I guess the obvious answer is not go at a speed where you will lose control of the bike if you need to indicate your intentions.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

Inertia said:


> Well I guess the obvious answer is not go at a speed where you will lose control of the bike if you need to indicate your intentions.


Yes but you have to remember that the potential idiot behind me would get even more up my backside if i dropped down to say 12-15mph.


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## nickyboy (11 Sep 2017)

I can sympathise with Accy as I know what the roads are like. Steep, twisty

The problem is that you're going downhill at a sensible speed, braking. As soon as you take your hand off the front brake to indicate right, you're reliant on just the back brake. At the same time you might be going round a bend. So you're steering with your left hand, braking with your left hand. What happens is you start to speed up

This is exactly what happens near me. I can't indicate too early, because there is another right turn and if I indicate too soon, then don't take it, the car driver behind me will then assume I'm going straight on. So I'm stuck with waiting, good look behind, quick indicate right while trying to steer and brake with my left, right hand back on the brake, slow down, turn right. I don't indicate again as my right hand is too busy braking

Of course I could get off the bike, walk down the hill etc which would be far safer. But I don't


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes but you have to remember that the potential idiot behind me would get even more up my backside if i say dropped down to 12-15mph.


Potential idiots would be up your backside whatever your speed, better to let them past.


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## Alan O (11 Sep 2017)

Inertia said:


> Potential idiots would be up your backside whatever your speed, better to let them past.


Yeah, if I'm approaching anything where I think I could be in danger (like a risky high-ish-speed turn), I'm happy to let drivers pass me first - I think along the lines of "It's taken me nearly 60 years to get here, so another minute won't matter".


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> Good word. Less hurtling all round Accy. And everyone else.


Some hurtling is obligatory. Makes you feel alive. I try to avoid the variety that includes executing a right-hand turn mind.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

Inertia said:


> Potential idiots would be up your backside whatever your speed, better to let them past.




i'm thinking of one road in particular where letting them pass would be nigh on impossible. I can't move to the left because of the parked traffic and the pot holes on the left,so i have to maintain a primary position. Go slow and they think you're taking the piss. You have to at least look like you're making an effort to get out their way asap.


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## Inertia (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> i'm thinking of one road in particular where letting them pass would be nigh on impossible. I can't move to the left because of the parked traffic and the pot holes on the left,so i have to maintain a primary position. Go slow and they think you're taking the piss. You have to at least look like you're making an effort to get out their way asap.


I didn't mean move over, I mean that if you are going slow they will probably find it easier to pass than if you are travelling at a similar speed to them.

I obviously don't know the road but how do you know what they are thinking? Worry about your own safety, the way you describe it, travelling at a safe speed is a better idea than travelling too fast because of some random idiot. If its that bad maybe find an alternate route.


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## Tim Hall (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> How do you do it?You can't just use the back brake as it's not a safe thing to do,so how do you indicate?.


Why is just using the back brake not a safe thing to do? It'll do more than not using it at all for sure.
If I found myself in an unplanned hurtling situation as you describe I'd:

Reduce speed as much as poss with both brakes
Shoulder check
Indicate right (while keeping the rear brake on)
Move out if clear to do so
Return right hand to other brake
Complete turn


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## Yellow Saddle (11 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4952223, member: 259"]Buy a bike with the brakes on the proper way round [/QUOTE]

Where is my garlic and silver cross?


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## mcshroom (11 Sep 2017)

If you are stuck in the situation where you cannot release the brakes, then pull over into a very strong primary. Somewhere near the right hand wheel track. 

A signal would be useful, but if it's not podsible then being further right in the lane reduces the chances that the driver will try and overtake you at the junction.


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## si_c (11 Sep 2017)

mcshroom said:


> If you are stuck in the situation where you cannot release the brakes, then pull over into a very strong primary. Somewhere near the right hand wheel track.
> 
> A signal would be useful, but if it's not podsible then being further right in the lane reduces the chances that the driver will try and overtake you at the junction.


Also being to the right of the lane approaching a junction, an alert and thoughtful driver might assume a right turn.


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## Drago (11 Sep 2017)

Assumption is the mother of all foxtrot uniforms.


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## Tin Pot (11 Sep 2017)

Accy cyclist said:


> How do you do it?.



Who knows? I must be some kind of farking miracle worker.


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## HLaB (11 Sep 2017)

I'm probably out of practice as its too flat down here but it seemed to work ok for me in Edinburgh (right turn signalwise), I think a shoulder check and planning ahead worked well.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4953165, member: 1314"]taxplayer[/QUOTE]


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## Pete Owens (12 Sep 2017)

Ian H said:


> If I was hurtling down hill and I had my brakes hard on all the time, I think I'd decide that some urgent maintenance was required.



30 years ago I rode a bike with steel rims and was descending a steep hill towards a busy T junction in Lancater in heavy rain. I applied the brakes well in advance while I was still moving at a sedate pace. They had no effect whatsoever - I just continued to accelerate towards the junction. I knew that I would have to leap off to avoid being hit by a motor at the junction. I also knew that the later I left it the more it was going to hurt when I did leap. it still took me quite a time to summon up the courage to actually jump.


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## alicat (12 Sep 2017)

Go more slowly or abort the turn if there is someone up your backside. The situation you describe doesn't let you stop and wait if there is oncoming traffic when you reach the junction.


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## Shut Up Legs (12 Sep 2017)

alicat said:


> Go more slowly or abort the turn if there is someone up your backside. The situation you describe doesn't let you stop and wait if there is oncoming traffic when you reach the junction.


Couldn't a cyclist legally stop in that situation? If I understand anything about the UK road laws, they're not that different from Australia's, and it's illegal to overtake a vehicle if it means you're heading straight into oncoming traffic. In other words, the motorist should suck it up and bloody wait.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Sep 2017)

Maybe you could cycle with friends?


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## Randomnerd (12 Sep 2017)

Answer to OP is simple. If you can't slow down, manoeuvre and turn right. - or you can't think of another strategy yourself without resorting to tinternet - you should not be on the public road. Comets hurtle. Cyclists ride.


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## Profpointy (12 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> Answer to OP is simple. If you can't slow down, manoeuvre and turn right. - or you can't think of another strategy yourself without resorting to tinternet - you should not be on the public road. Comets hurtle. Cyclists ride.



Quite right. Fancy asking for advice on a cycling forum. You're only allowed to ask a question if you already know everything.


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## Randomnerd (12 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Quite right. Fancy asking for advice on a cycling forum. You're only allowed to ask a question if you already know everything.


In this case OP already knows the answer, but finds amusement in asking it anyway. As boring as some find that, I find it even more tedious reading the simpering support for it. Were real life to run like this, we'd still be waiting to invent the effing bike.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Sep 2017)

Wait, invent what?


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## Randomnerd (12 Sep 2017)

The effing bike. Swears as it brakes. Curses when close passed. Spits venomous slang at in-the-way peds.


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## Profpointy (12 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> In this case OP already knows the answer, but finds amusement in asking it anyway. As boring as some find that, I find it even more tedious reading the simpering support for it. Were real life to run like this, we'd still be waiting to invent the effing bike.



Seemed a perfectly sensible question, whatever nonsense / humour Accy might post normally. "get off and walk" is a bit defeatist as advice goes


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## growingvegetables (12 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> The effing bike. Swears as it brakes. Curses when close passed. Spits venomous slang at in-the-way peds.


Brilliant!


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## Randomnerd (12 Sep 2017)

Profpointy said:


> Seemed a perfectly sensible question, whatever nonsense / humour Accy might post normally. "get off and walk" is a bit defeatist as advice goes


I'm not going to waste too much finger energy going through all the strategies an experienced cyclist of some years would have to hand to slow for a fast downhill right hand turn. At no point did I offer walking as an alternative, and I was careful to be positive and assertive in replies. You're entitled to see this crap as sensible if you like, but don't accuse me of being defeatist. Fora should be places where we share knowledge and experience and all move on, but these threads serve only to feed inane, circular arguments in which we are both now unnecessarily embroiled.


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## alicat (13 Sep 2017)

> Sometimes it's just not worth the risk and i pull over to the kerb to let the impatient so and so's pass,then when it's clear i make my move to that right turning junction i'm after.


 
You've answered your own question, imho. I suspect this is a genuine question; however, you have got form so 'If you ask a silly question, you get a silly answer'.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (13 Sep 2017)

woodenspoons said:


> The effing bike. Swears as it brakes. Curses when close passed. Spits venomous slang at in-the-way peds.



As vehemently stated elsewhere, peds are never 'in-the-way', they are merely exercising their right to access a public space


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## Accy cyclist (13 Sep 2017)

User said:


> Unless they're of a different ethnic group, religion or sexuality you mean.
> 
> Don't try and make yourself out as some sort of victim...


No one on here i mean. You know what i meant


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## freiston (14 Sep 2017)

Re. the original question, it's a ridiculous situation to knowingly/purposefully put yourself in and in that respect, the question shouldn't even arise.

More generally, when turning right at junctions where the traffic is just about relentless, (if the road is wide enough) I try to take primary position early on (if I'm well on the left before this, I will sometimes signal to take the primary position), I then signal to take my turn and go to the centre of the road, stopping to wait for a suitable gap in the oncoming traffic, allowing traffic from behind to pass me on my left. Where the road is not wide enough, I generally try to find an earlier opportunity to get over the road and onto the pavement where I walk the bike to the turning (or even ride it if it doesn't cause danger or distress to pedestrians). Failing that, I would pull in and stop, waiting to cross like a pedestrian, or I would look for a detour to avoid the junction.

I have on occasion stopped in the primary position to turn right and let the traffic queue up behind me.


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## alicat (15 Sep 2017)

@freiston, is the word 'ridiculous' called for? You haven't factored in the gradient that the OP mentioned nor the speed of the traffic.


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## freiston (15 Sep 2017)

alicat said:


> @freiston, is the word 'ridiculous' called for? You haven't factored in the gradient that the OP mentioned nor the speed of the traffic.


Yes it is and yes I did.

If you know you're going to turn right (and you know the hill is steep and you are aware of the 'usual' traffic problem), then it is ridiculous to let yourself get up to a speed where you need to maintain a vice like grip on your front brake and it would be unsafe to use your back brake. If the OP feels the speed is unavoidable then imho, he should look for an alternative solution to the high-speed right-turn - if you are travelling too fast to be in control and safely execute the manoeuvre, then don't make the manoeuvre. If it isn't too fast to be in control and safely execute the manoeuvre, then the question doesn't arise.


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