# Front rack and panniers



## yashicamat (22 Nov 2009)

Evening all,

I'm looking to buy a front rack and some panniers for my Surly LHT. Last tour I had everything crammed into two rear panniers, which on reflection wasn't ideal at all.

There seems to be a bit of a minefield on front racks . . . I'm assuming that a "low rider" is one where the panniers mount lower down, as opposed to the top of the pannier being above the wheel top? I'm also assuming it's a low rider that is the one that would be better to go for?

The forks have mounting points on both the outside and inside at midfork and at the end near the hub, but currently the latter have the outside mounts occupied by the mudguards . . . would that be a case of a longer bolt to mount it, or could the inside mount holes be utilised somehow?

As for panniers, I think they'll be easier to decide on, I'm assuming that they all fit to the different types of front rack?

Sorry there's a good few questions, just has my head spinning a bit this.

Cheers

Rob


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## rich p (22 Nov 2009)

I bought these Tubus racks last year and they were a vast improvement on my previous ones. There were a variety of attaching positions which should suit most tourers although I have no experience of Surly LHTs


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## yashicamat (22 Nov 2009)

rich p said:


> I bought these Tubus racks last year and they were a vast improvement on my previous ones. There were a variety of attaching positions which should suit most tourers although I have no experience of Surly LHTs



Thanks for the reply. Ouch - nearly £70 for a front rack though! I had spotted that one and it looks well put together, just wondering what the money is going into though . . .


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## style over speed (22 Nov 2009)

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Tubus_Tara_Lowrider_Front_Rack/5360025260/

I put this one on my LHT, fitting was quite easy... in the end I used one long bolt to fix both the rack and mudguard onto the same mounting hole (the rear one). The SKS front fixing block worked well as a spacer.


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## rich p (22 Nov 2009)

yashicamat said:


> Thanks for the reply. Ouch - nearly £70 for a front rack though! I had spotted that one and it looks well put together, just wondering what the money is going into though . . .



I have to agree and I squirmed for a while but having bitten the bullet and spent the money I have no regrets. They are solid, sturdy, well made and I will get years and years of value out of them whereas the ones I had before fore half the price only lasted 2.5 trips.

There's some truth in the saying, Buy cheap, buy twice! Not always though which is the tricky decision!


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## Ergle (22 Nov 2009)

I bought a front rack this year.

I chose a high rack, badged as a front rack for a mountain bike. The reason was that I wanted a rack onto which I could strap occasional things such as bits of shopping. The rack I chose was this one

http://www.evanscycles.com/products...oogle&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=froogle


I was mindful of the general wisdom that low rider panniers are more stable, however never having tried a low rider rack I couldn't comment.

I used this arrangement during my recent cycle camping trip in France, and it was fine. I used the rack top to strap a 2 litre water bottle to for most of the trip.

*Thank you Rob - your question has given me the opportunity of a blatant plug for my latest adventure, Normandy to Vichy - link is attached to the sig below. *


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## robgul (23 Nov 2009)

Ergle said:


> I bought a front rack this year.
> 
> I chose a high rack, badged as a front rack for a mountain bike. The reason was that I wanted a rack onto which I could strap occasional things such as bits of shopping. The rack I chose was this one
> 
> ...



.... I just fitted the same rack to the front of my Galaxy - really to strap waterproofs and few odd bits on to ... seems file. I bent the upstand part on the top very slightly to make it more vertical and give better clearance for cables etc. [Note: Shopping around will find that rack for about 40% less than Mr Evans wants to charge]

Rob


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## psmiffy (23 Nov 2009)

In my first 6 years of touring I destroyed 3 aluminium front hi - racks - the welds breaking was not too much of a problem - it was the vertical from the fork drop outs developing a plastic hinge - OK for the first year/18 months of touring but would go wrong in the second year - now I use a nitto steel rack - 3 times the price but hassel free


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## willem (25 Nov 2009)

I think Tubus racks are probably the best you can get, and Nitto the nicest. However, I wonder if you really need one. If you are cycling to the other end of the world, then probably yes. If you are riding in, say, most of Europe, I suggest you spend the money on lighter and more compact gear instead.

A good rack and good panniers will set you back something like 150 pounds, and *will weigh some 2-2.5 kilo, even when empty*. Just use those 150 pounds to shave both weight and volume from your luggage. In my experience less than 15 kilo is quite feasible for three season camping in Europe, and that should work well on a decent rear rack.
Willem


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## earthuman (27 Nov 2009)

I'm currently touring through Europe on an LHT and I put on this. So far so good. been happy with them and no problems as of yet...40 days into the tour.


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## willem (1 Dec 2009)

If your mid fork mountings are through and through, a Tubus Duo should fit. If you want a front rack, I think they are the best money can buy (but only of they fit your fork).
Willem


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## Ricd11 (7 Jan 2010)

Found some Altura Orkney 34 panniers for cheap second hand, wondering if they would fit these low rider racks as they have the rixen and kaul klickfix attachments? 

By the sounds of it the low racks are better so don't want to buy the bags for them to not fit (as I have rear Dryline 56 panniers already)

thanks,

Rich


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## willem (8 Jan 2010)

I would be surprised if they don't fit, or cannot be made to fit. Lowriders are pretty much the standard, and Tubus in particular, and Klickfix is so common that you do not want to market a rack where they don't fit. Avoid older Blackburn lowriders and copies, however.
On a different note, 56+34 litres really is cavernous. Unless you intend to travel the world, just the 34 litre panniers in the rear should be enough if you pack carefully, let alone the 56 litre ones.
Willem


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## Crankarm (8 Jan 2010)

willem said:


> I would be surprised if they don't fit, or cannot be made to fit. Lowriders are pretty much the standard, and Tubus in particular, and Klickfix is so common that you do not want to market a rack where they don't fit. *Avoid older Blackburn lowriders* and copies, however.
> On a different note, 56+34 litres really is cavernous. Unless you intend to travel the world, just the 34 litre panniers in the rear should be enough if you pack carefully, let alone the 56 litre ones.
> Willem



I would say avoid Blackburn low riders as the design is a bit pants and they slip around. But have now modified mine by drilling a small hole through the lower mount clip through which the cross bar fits, through the cross bar itself and fitted a 2mm split pin through the hole, soon to be a stainless steel bolt. The panniers are now solid. Have also wrapped old inner tube, just like handle bar tape but thicker, around the low rider tubing so the pannier clip fits snugly and the pannier does not rattle. Have used insulating tape and a thin cable tie to stop the inner tubing coming undone. All looks a nice solution for what was driving me mad. Panniers are Vaude Aqua Roll Tops, Ortlieb Front Roller Classics or Altura Orkneys the originals. They all mount fine now and don't rattle. To allay confusion not all at the same time I might add. 

Would post a pic of the mod but you can't upload pics to threads here without hosting them on flickr which I'm not willing to do. So if anyone has Blackurn low loaders and wants to see what I have done to solve the problems these racks have then PM with your email and I'll email you some pics.


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## Ricd11 (8 Jan 2010)

thanks both,

Willem- i bought the 56s because i am using them travelling to and from uni and home, so bring laptop and books and clothes etc. I want some for the front because of the stability issues people seem to be raising, i'm a newcomer to the world of cycling really but it seems to make sense to have weight on the front. Then I think if i don't use all of the space it's not a problem? 

I will be touring europe for a couple of months this summer, so wont be anything too ridiculous. To me though 34 alone sounds abit on the slim side, I don't want to be scrimping too much, planning on stealth camping and cooking my food and what not. But as I said i'm a newbie so all advice is greatlfully received!


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## Crankarm (8 Jan 2010)

Ricd11 said:


> thanks both,
> 
> Willem- i bought the 56s because i am using them travelling to and from uni and home, so bring laptop and books and clothes etc. I want some for the front because of the stability issues people seem to be raising, i'm a newcomer to the world of cycling really but it seems to make sense to have weight on the front. Then I think if i don't use all of the space it's not a problem?
> 
> I will be touring europe for a couple of months this summer, so wont be anything too ridiculous. To me though 34 alone sounds abit on the slim side, I don't want to be scrimping too much, planning on stealth camping and cooking my food and what not. But as I said i'm a newbie so all advice is greatlfully received!




Welcome.
Should have been more specific. My first panniers were the Front Altura Orkneys 34 litres total I think for the pair, in black, which I bought in the mid 1990s. They are still going fine. Oh one of the zips on the side pocket has broken but they can be replaced and I broke one of the buckles to secure the lid. Not a weakness, purely my fault. The fabric is still pretty new looking though and good. It hasn't faded or worn through anywhere despite regular use until last year when I bought Vaude Aqua roll tops, totally waterproof. The only thing I didn't like with the Orkneys was that they weren't fully waterproof having to put on a seperate rain cover when it really chucked it down. Having side that they never let water in despite using them everyday for many years in some pretty heavy deluges. I like them as they allow you to carry just enough but not too much. I did use them on the rear rack but they work just as well if not better on the front. They are the smaller front panniers after all.

The Rixen and Kaul fittings are adjustable using a Phillips screw driver and IMHO are far better than the ones used by other manufacturers as you don't need spacers if you put them on a different sized diameter rack. Just re-adjust them. It only takes 2 minutes. AFAIK they will go on Tubus racks which have 10 or 11m diameter tubing. The Blackburn racks which I use on my bikes and 'am stuck with are 8mm. I like all my racks to be the same diameter tubing otherwise you spend all your time faffing around fitting or removing spacers and taking care not to lose the fiddly buggers which both Ortlieb and Vaude use for their pannier hooks.

I find it is better not to have all the weight on the back of the bike as it makes it feel very cumbersome and lethargic even more so than spreading the weight between front and back. Not to mention the extra strain on your rear wheel with all that weight including you.

So if you got the old style Orkneys cheap you got a good deal as they are good panniers. Well made and robust. Nice looking and decent pockets. How much btw?


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## Ricd11 (8 Jan 2010)

They are on ebay at the moment: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Altura-Orkney..._Cycling_Bags_Panniers_SR?hash=item2eaa32bdb9

obviously someone might bid a lot for them before the end, but i'd probably go for 30-35 quid something like that? A lot cheaper than buying brand new anyway and i have the new dryline 56s. As your panniers are older now, is that the reason for the raincovers? I thought the orkneys were fully waterproof, found no mention of raincovers :s

About Blackburn, my ridgeback voyage came with a blackburn rack, and the drylines fit it perfectly without any modification (which i'm pretty glad is the case now)

Thanks,
Rich


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## Tony (9 Jan 2010)

Have ridden with the same Blackburn pair on my Galaxy for a decade and a half....and no real problems. Low riders, of course.
If mounting the rack and mudguards to the same bolt, make sure the mudguard fitting is on the outside of the rack, so that the rack is flush to the fork to avoid shearing the bolt.


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## ufkacbln (9 Jan 2010)

Lets get back to basics. 

There are two types of front rack. This is because of the need to prevent the rack twieting in under load.

Some have a stabilising bar such as the Tara:







The alternative is to use the paired braze-ons to perform this task and dispense with the bar. The Blackburn Custom is an example:






However there is a further problem. The converging rods mean that some panniers clips willnot fit between the rods at the front or over both rods. This can limit pannier choice.

If you do go down this route then there are a number of panniers such as the Thorn that equally space these rods and allow any pannier:


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## Ricd11 (9 Jan 2010)

Thanks guys,

I struggled to see the converging bars at first but now I get it, does look like it become a problem


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## willem (9 Jan 2010)

These racks for through bolts are a good idea if you really need front panniers, and the Tubus Duo is another one of this kind, and a very good one- I love mine as it really is very stiff. No problems fitting panniers so far.
As for the actual need for front panniers, I don't think there is one on such trips in Europe. I am planning a trip to Norway this summer, and I have to be prepared for wet and cold weather (below freezing at times). I will cook my own meals as well, but my planned luggage weight is about 14 kilo. I will use two Ortlieb rear panniers with a volume of 40 litres, and I will have the tent on the top of the rack. I will use a medium sized bar bag for my purse, phone, emergency blanket etc. That's all. The Tubus Duo will stay home.
Even empty front panniers and a front rack weigh some 2-2.5 kilo, and may cost something like 150 pounds. I think it is much smarter to use that money to lighten your load. As long as you do not overload the rear of your bike there should not be any stability issues.
Willem


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## Ricd11 (9 Jan 2010)

In my mind i'm thinking that i should have stuff on the front even if it means i only half fill the rear panniers, so the weight is evened out. I can't say this is the way to do it, but it seems reasonable to me. Maybe I'm abit scared of the balance on steep climbs and the possibilty of knackering spokes. I also agree that I shouldn't be taking lots of stuff i don't use, so i'm going to do a few weekenders when the weathers abit better. I do want to be comfortable though as I'll be doing abit of sightseeing around some of the big cities as well. I guess the best thing is to get out and have a go and see. I did find dhb Marsden Front Panniers though which are about 10L each and are very reasonably priced at £36 @ wiggle.


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## ufkacbln (9 Jan 2010)

They are also a way to even out the inconsistencies between riders

I am a stronger rider than my wife and my front panniers tend to carry her stuff allowing her to have lighter panniers on the rear


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## andym (9 Jan 2010)

Ricd11 said:


> In my mind i'm thinking that i should have stuff on the front even if it means i only half fill the rear panniers, so the weight is evened out. I can't say this is the way to do it, but it seems reasonable to me. Maybe I'm abit scared of the balance on steep climbs and the possibilty of knackering spokes... I guess the best thing is to get out and have a go and see. I did find dhb Marsden Front Panniers though which are about 10L each and are very reasonably priced at £36 @ wiggle.



Some people swear by panniers front and back and others find that a set of rear panniers are all they need (I'm pretty much in the latter camp - but I recognize that front panniers would be useful if I need to carry more food). If you have decent wheels then it's unlikely you'll have problems with spokes. My advice would be to see how you get on with just a set of rear panniers before you splash out on front rack and panniers - especially for a short tour.


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## willem (9 Jan 2010)

Of course it all depends on circumstances: when I am on tour with my wife and kids I am the designated mule - with front panniers as well.
Willem


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## Crankarm (9 Jan 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> Lets get back to basics.
> 
> There are two types of front rack. This is because of the need to prevent the rack twieting in under load.
> 
> ...




Yes, these are the ones although mine mount with just the inner bar (in this pic) on the outside bolt hole as I don't have a bolt hole on the inner side of each fork. A spacer tube is then used between the converging bars and a longer bolt is passed through this from the outer bar.

If you look on the diagonal cross bar you will see equally spaced countersinks/dimples which are used to locate the clasp which forms the lower mount. I guess Blackburn expect you to use a punch on the clasp to indent it into one of the countersinks to stop it moving when you are satisfied with position of the rack. In my experience this is pants if this is what Blackburn expect you to do as there is no strength in this arrangement, the diagonal bar soon starts slipping through the clasp when you have a pannier on it which then adopts a weird angle. So, sick of this, I just drilled a small hole through clasp and diagonal bar and put a split pin through but soon to be stainless steel bolt if I can find some. The front racks are now very solid and don't twist. I would like to make the braze on holes in the fork M6 holes as they are currently M5 so I can use a fatter stronger bolt, but that would be being piccy. Maybe if I go AWOL in the Stans or Mongolia I will do it before I leave or alternatively buy Tubus. I prefer the robust look of the Ergos to the more minimalist Taras.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Tubus_Ergo_Lowrider_Front_Rack/5360025262/








As I say I would take a pic of my Blackburn low loaders with mods to show anyone whose got them and is fed up with them moving around, but this site doesn't permit you to upload your pics unless they are hosted elsewhere.

I don't recommend these Blackburn Low Loaders. If I was starting out again it would be Tubus Ergos, but I'm stuck with what I've got and have tried to make the best of a poor design really. If anyone else owns them then it is worth doing to get a rock steady strong front rack. The converging bars are a pain but I have found there is sufficient horizontal bar just behind the bolt going into the braze on to accommodate the rearmost pannier hook so the front pannier hook can be got between the converging bars relatively easily before they become too close together. I did consider splitting the bars at the front and having a hoop welded in between and linking the two racks as Tubus do but this would probably cost more than buying Tubus Ergos. However both my front Vaude and Altura panniers now fit my modified Blackburn low loaders without problem. Also having them further back or as far back as possible means the centre of gravity of the pannier is still just on/behind the front axle which is important for stability. There is no issue with toe clearance even when turning.

Here are the ones I got although not from CRC.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=14124


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## andym (10 Jan 2010)

> As I say I would take a pic of my Blackburn low loaders with mods to show anyone whose got them and is fed up with them moving around, but this site doesn't permit you to upload your pics unless they are hosted elsewhere.



Actually you can: click 'Go Advanced' then scroll down to 'Manage attachments'; click that and then follow the instructions. Alternatively, http://tinypic.com/ provides are very easy to use service.


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## andrew_s (10 Jan 2010)

Crankarm said:


> Yes, these are the ones although mine mount with just the inner bar (in this pic) on the outside bolt hole as I don't have a bolt hole on the inner side of each fork. A spacer tube is then used between the converging bars and a longer bolt is passed through this from the outer bar.
> 
> If you look on the diagonal cross bar you will see equally spaced countersinks/dimples which are used to locate the clasp which forms the lower mount. I guess Blackburn expect you to use a punch on the clasp to indent it into one of the countersinks to stop it moving when you are satisfied with position of the rack.



Fitting a rack designed for attachment both sides of the fork to just a single attachment on the outside is dodgy. There's a comment about it on the CTC website from Chris Juden, who got involved with injury compensation claims after a bike shop supplied the rack fitted in this way. The supplied spacer is a stand-off for the lower attachment point if the end of the fork blade gets in the way.
If you've got just a single bolt hole on the outside face, you need a low rider with a bracing loop over the top of the wheel.

When I had one of those racks, the P-clip already had a dimple in to locate into the countersinks. It didn't stop the rack slipping - the dimple just scored a groove in the rack rod. I put a puncture patch round the rod, and clamped the P-clip over that.


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## ufkacbln (10 Jan 2010)

andrew_s said:


> Fitting a rack designed for attachment both sides of the fork to just a single attachment on the outside is dodgy. There's a comment about it on the CTC website from Chris Juden, who got involved with injury compensation claims after a bike shop supplied the rack fitted in this way. The supplied spacer is a stand-off for the lower attachment point if the end of the fork blade gets in the way.
> If you've got just a single bolt hole on the outside face, you need a low rider with a bracing loop over the top of the wheel.
> 
> When I had one of those racks, the P-clip already had a dimple in to locate into the countersinks. It didn't stop the rack slipping - the dimple just scored a groove in the rack rod. I put a puncture patch round the rod, and clamped the P-clip over that.



+1

As I said you must have a dual bolt fitting OR a bracer loop, you cannot compromise as a loaded front rack going into the wheel is not going to be comfortable.


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## Tony (15 Jan 2010)

I went into a certain major bike retail chain some years ago to see a Galaxy in which the right and left lowriders had been fitted to the opposite forks, with the spacer BETWEEN the two arms and both bolted to the outside of the fork. I made my feelings rather clear (i.e. swore loudly in disbelief) and one of the staff agreed. It had been sent to the shop like that and he had already fired off a rocket to HQ.
So, a sensibleand experienced cyclist sees the cock up and pulls the bike back in to be fixed. Suppose it had been one of the others?


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## andrew_s (15 Jan 2010)

From the CTC magazine, Nov 2006


> I am sorry to have to mention this again, but in spite of published warnings (not only in the December 2004 issue of Cycle but also Bicycle Business): cycle shops are continuing to mis-fit front carriers in a dangerous way.
> 
> Barbara Robert's Dawes Kara-Kum came with the front carrier fitted thus, by the central despatch department of a major cycle retailer. She thought it looked wrong, but was assured it was correct! Fortunately, when she took the bike for its first service at another branch, they agreed and returned the bike with the carrier re-fitted correctly, as shown in the second photo, bolted either side of each fork blade.
> If you have a bike with this kind of carrier, make sure it looks like the lower photo. The alloy spacers seen in the first photo, by the way, are meant to space out the lower fixing in case of a fat fork end.
> Good news: the seriously injured CTC member I last advised on this matter is on course to receive a large sum in compensation. So any retailer who thinks they might have supplied any wrongly fitted front carriers would be well advised to check their insurance – whilst offering these customers a free service!


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## snorri (16 Jan 2010)

andym said:


> Some people swear by panniers front and back and others find that a set of rear panniers are all they need


I'm a firm believer in front and rear panniers to even the load and make the bicycle easier to handle when you are off the bike as much as on. It can become quite a handful when lifting up stairs onto a boat or train etc. if all the weight is on the back.
Just because you have four panniers does not mean you should leave home with all panniers full. Some spare pannier space can be handy for things you might buy along the way, perhaps more clothing, cooking utensils, maps or just something that takes your fancy.


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## jay clock (16 Jan 2010)

I have a Koga Miyata World traveller which came with Tubus racks front and rear. I will use these if I ever I do a longer trip, but after an overloaded jaunt to NZ my last one week tours have been with rear only, and a light dry bag on the back rack with tent in

The front rack must weigh at least 500g, the 2 front panniers about 1kg, so that is 1.5kg before I even add stuff. 

I think I would need to be doing a longer tour, more own cooking, and colder weather so needing more clothes before I add the front rack back on.

Having said all that I think it helps balance and handling. Except my bike seems to handle fine with just rear kit, even if laden

Jay


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## jay clock (16 Jan 2010)

I have a Koga Miyata World traveller which came with Tubus racks front and rear. I will use these if I ever I do a longer trip, but after an overloaded jaunt to NZ my last one week tours have been with rear only, and a light dry bag on the back rack with tent in

The front rack must weigh at least 500g, the 2 front panniers about 1kg, so that is 1.5kg before I even add stuff. 

I think I would need to be doing a longer tour, more own cooking, and colder weather so needing more clothes before I add the front rack back on.

Having said all that I think it helps balance and handling. Except my bike seems to handle fine with just rear kit, even if laden

Jay


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## Crankarm (17 Jan 2010)

jay clock said:


> I have a Koga Miyata World traveller which came with Tubus racks front and rear. I will use these if I ever I do a longer trip, but after an overloaded jaunt to NZ my last one week tours have been with rear only, and a light dry bag on the back rack with tent in
> 
> The front rack must weigh at least 500g, the 2 front panniers about 1kg, so that is 1.5kg before I even add stuff.
> 
> ...



That's a scientific approach ................ You won't know until you try riding with 4 panniers adopting a more even weight distribution. Then you can certainly establish if your bike rides or handles better rather than having all weight including yourself over the rear wheel.


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## Crankarm (17 Jan 2010)

jay clock said:


> I have a Koga Miyata World traveller which came with Tubus racks front and rear. I will use these if I ever I do a longer trip, but after an overloaded jaunt to NZ my last one week tours have been with rear only, and a light dry bag on the back rack with tent in
> 
> The front rack must weigh at least 500g, the 2 front panniers about 1kg, so that is 1.5kg before I even add stuff.
> 
> ...



That's a scientific approach ................ You won't know until you try riding with 4 panniers adopting a more even weight distribution. Then you can certainly establish if your bike rides or handles better rather than having all weight including yourself over the rear wheel.


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## jay clock (17 Jan 2010)

Just to be clear, I did do a 3 week tour with all four panniers. the handling on my bike is fine with all 4 or with just a rear load. 

My hunch is that 700c wheeled bikes are more susceptible to poor handling if loaded rear only. My other hunch is that 26" wheels are stronger, so it is easier to isolate the weight over the back wheel.

I did previously have Saracen Skyline (very similar to a Galaxy) and feel the Koga Miyata is better all round at luggage carrying (frantically trying to get this posting back on topic!)


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## jay clock (17 Jan 2010)

Just to be clear, I did do a 3 week tour with all four panniers. the handling on my bike is fine with all 4 or with just a rear load. 

My hunch is that 700c wheeled bikes are more susceptible to poor handling if loaded rear only. My other hunch is that 26" wheels are stronger, so it is easier to isolate the weight over the back wheel.

I did previously have Saracen Skyline (very similar to a Galaxy) and feel the Koga Miyata is better all round at luggage carrying (frantically trying to get this posting back on topic!)


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## Crankarm (20 Jan 2010)

I took some pics of my Blackburn low loader racks which seem to generate so much controversy. Ok as generally concluded there are NOT the best design on the market, but I am where I am and cannot afford to replace them with Tubus made in China variants. I was assured by local LBS that fitting without an inner bolt hole boss was not a problem just fit them on the outside using the spacer tube between the ends of the horizontal bars. I guess if the lower mount wasn't also spaced out and the rack or bolts bent then they might fail as in the case mentioned above. Plus I would like front and rear racks the same diameter tubing as I have a Blackburn EX-2 rear rack and don't want the added expense at the mo of changing that, although the welding on it is poor (see pics below). I have to make do. So these are pics showing mods I have made to mine which I tried to describe in a previous couple of posts. I make no warranty or indemnify anyone who copies me. My views are purely opinion although I feel I have neatly solved an inherent problem in design of these front pannier racks.

I happen to find my mod is quite effective. No bolt or stay has been bent or stretched. The lower mount was padded out using 13mm nuts. I shall use suitable tubing when I find some and also swap the split pins for stainless steel bolts at some point which are currently sitting in the kitchen. I have been using the low loaders like this with a reasonable weight in the front panniers for about 6 months now without a single glitch.

The wrapping of old inner tube around the rack stays is IMHO a good tip for silencing rattling noisy panniers as you can do this on any rack.

andym - thanks for tip on attaching images.


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## Crankarm (20 Jan 2010)

I forgot to take pics of panniers actually on the racks . All are front panniers

- Vaude Aqua
- Altura Orkney (old stylee)

Light was failing so tried to hurry so not the best pics.

The Vaude fronts seem to look massive from the side but I can assure they are the front panniers. My rear ones have pockets. I think the reason the side pic makes them look so big is because inside each is an Abus Granit X Plus 54 D-lock and I haven't rolled down the tops as fully as I would when actually cycling as I was hurrying to take the pics before darkness fell.

I hope you guys appreciate the pics, if only to flame me  .


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## Crankarm (20 Jan 2010)

Plus a close up of the Rixen and Kaul hooks from old Altura Orkneys. Wooden pieces are to stop the hooks rattling should they do so, but the real reason I use them is because, about 2 years ago dec 07/08, I unwittingly one night rode through one HUGE pothole at 22mph and the pannier came off the right side of the rear rack at 22mph hitting the road hard, the stuff inside got damaged camera, lock casing badly cracked and rim was knackered requiring replacement. Fortunately I didn't come off. A bit make shift looking, but very quick and effective, it takes seconds to do up and release and the pannier WILL NOT come off.

Will take better pics of the Ortlieb panniers tomorrow as I know every one loves them although I prefer my Vaudes .


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## Crankarm (21 Jan 2010)

Front Ortlieb Roller Classics.


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## Crankarm (21 Jan 2010)

Blackburn crappy welding not 360 degs around a joint therefore weak and will fail as 2 of my racks have on the same stays.


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## Crankarm (21 Jan 2010)

All kitted up and ready to ride ......

Hope all these pics have been of help to some one .....


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## Ricd11 (21 Apr 2010)

Just bought a front low rider rack that can fit via the fork mounts or using the loop adapter things (I have the outer fork attachment point)

However, the mud guards are totally in the way. Somone mentioned mounting the rack most inwards is the done thing, but then the rods to the mudguard are completely forced outwards and so cannot be attached in place.

Can you mount the rack outwards of the mudguard using a longer bolt at the bottom? This obviously means that the rack is not parallel to the fork and bends the bottom bolt if you try to fit the top. Or is there some spacing device needed?


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