# Stage 2: SPOILER



## Chuffy (5 Jul 2010)

Thought I'd get it started early. 


Nice snapshot here of a team talk inside the Garmin bus. "No Dave, that's tomorrow".


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Tough stage today, and to top it all it's raining. Jalabert has just given his FP for today - Vino.

edit
just wrote that and there's a crash


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Andy Schleck has crashed pretty heavily. Mental stage today.


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## montage (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> Andy Schleck has crashed pretty heavily. Mental stage today.



Shhhhhhhht just saw this. Not good at all.


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2010)

Amets unpronouncable is having a crack; good man.


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## iAmiAdam (5 Jul 2010)

Cavendish is still rubber down, and I think brad of wiggins is too. Not sure on him though.

God damn eurosport breaks.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

Schleck is knackered. Almost 5 minutes down.


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## accountantpete (5 Jul 2010)

The main Peloton seems to be debating whether to wait for Schleck to come back up to them - curses ad break on itv4.


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## iAmiAdam (5 Jul 2010)

They shouldn't wait for schleck, they need to catch up with the front two.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

Chavanel is going on his own now... I really thought Roelandts would come out on top of the two. It is chaos behind.


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## accountantpete (5 Jul 2010)

Peloton regrouping -which is going to hand the race to Chavenal if he can hammer the final cl;imb.

Big Jens is burying himself big-time to bring Schleck back


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

They are back now... Cancellara controlling himself and the peloton instead of going for it today.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Fab will lose yellow but he's saved the brothers - way to go - it's a team thing. Innit.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> Fab will lose yellow but he's saved the brothers - way to go - it's a team thing. Innit.



Considering that they have been secretly plotting to leave and undermine Saxo Bank, it's a lesson for them too...


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## biking_fox (5 Jul 2010)

Why haven't the other GC contenders taken the opportunity to put time into the Shclecks ?? - Wiggins at the very least needs every s he can claw, even in Contador is comfortable he'll win it in the mountains.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Nice revenge for Chavanel after his horrendous injuries on these same roads earlier in the year. Well done lad.


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

Either there's a general agreement not to attack them this early on in the race after a crash like that. 

Chavavel in yellow, it looks like. But... maybe not, it looks like the stage might be annulled! I really hope not, that would be crap. Or at least, Cancellara and co. were 'protesting' anyway, let's see...


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## HonestMan1910 (5 Jul 2010)

Well done Chavanel today.

Who made Cancellara God ?

I hope the race organisers do not award any points to anyone other than the stage winner.

There are people who bet on this sport and it is a little bit of cheating to do what was done on the run in.


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## accountantpete (5 Jul 2010)

Can't see the result being amended - leaving Chavanal with a 3min lead.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Protesting about what for god's sake?


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> Protesting about what for god's sake?



Apparently they are blaming the race-organisers for the route, and saying that caused the crashes. There's no way Chavanel's win or time should be discounted.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

What bollox. Some of these guys should've ridden this year's Giro.


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## HonestMan1910 (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> Protesting about what for god's sake?



They are saying the road conditions were poor i.e too small to get team cars in and out etc.

The main issue is that it was race favourite who was brought down, it is a race, they should have raced


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## montage (5 Jul 2010)

Not so impressed with Cancellara


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## BigSteev (5 Jul 2010)

If they wanted to protest about the route they should have done so when it was announced (i.e ages ago) or if they didn't like it, not entered. Are they going to whinge about tomorrows stage too?


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## Crankarm (5 Jul 2010)

Chapeau Chavanel .


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

No mention yet on France2 of a protest? Just a gentleman's agreement to regroup the peloton because of all the crashes, which I think is pretty cool really.


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## HonestMan1910 (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> No mention yet on France2 of a protest? Just a gentleman's agreement to regroup the peloton because of all the crashes, which I think is pretty cool really.




Still not fair, what if you had a wee punt on places today ?


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> No mention yet on France2 of a protest? Just a gentleman's agreement to regroup the peloton because of all the crashes, which I think is pretty cool really.



Well, no-one knows yet - regrouping the peloton is one thing (and something I fully support), preventing a sprint (i.e. refusing to race, after the peloton is regrouped) is another - that looks more like a point being made.


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## Crankarm (5 Jul 2010)

HonestMan1910 said:


> Well done Chavanel today.
> 
> Who made Cancellara God ?
> 
> ...



You might well be right as Chavanel is errr .............. French .


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

HonestMan1910 said:


> Still not fair, what if you had a wee punt on places today ?



the Tour is bigger than a wee punt


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Well, no-one knows yet - regrouping the peloton is one thing (and something I fully support), preventing a sprint (i.e. refusing to race, after the peloton is regrouped) is another - that looks more like a point being made.


Agree
They're explaining it now. Apparently the road was so greasy there were mechanics slipping and falling, not to mention bikes crashing. And they didn't want to contest the sprint because the main contenders were all behind? Which seems a bit bizarre. Oh well, roll on tomorrow.

Chavanel got a good collection of jerseys today.


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## Genman (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> Agree
> They're explaining it now. Apparently the road was so greasy there were mechanics slipping and falling, not to mention bikes crashing. And they didn't want to contest the sprint because the main contenders were all behind? Which seems a bit bizarre. Oh well, roll on tomorrow.
> 
> Chavanel got a good collection of jerseys today.


Have they neutralized the points as well?


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## HonestMan1910 (5 Jul 2010)

raindog said:


> the Tour is bigger than a wee punt



Not if you only have a wee amount of money !


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Genman said:


> Have they neutralized the points as well?


_They've left Chavanel's points but no points atributed from 2nd to 20th_
_
"Nous avons laissé les points du vainqueur à Sylvain Chavanel mais aucun point n'a été attribué de la 2e à la 20e place,"


_


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## montage (5 Jul 2010)

They should have sprinted. It's a friggin bike race, and a sprint would have had no impact on times anyway.

Cancellara seemed to be the driving force behind the protest - I've full respect for the guy, but maybe he was pissed off he lost yellow?


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## Noodley (5 Jul 2010)

The Tour has had many protests over the years, it's all part of the Tour...few people will remember it - go on, what was the last Tour protest? It'll have caused a fuss at the time.


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## Crackle (5 Jul 2010)

The one I remember was when they all sat down in the road.


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## Chuffy (5 Jul 2010)

Crackle said:


> The one I remember was when they all sat down in the road.


Was that the 98 protest? The one where poor oppressed souls like Pantani wanted to complain about those nasty doping investigations and Riis was negotiating on behalf of the riders? Happy days...


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

I like the farmers' protests - I do hope we have one of those this year...


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## Chuffy (5 Jul 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I like the farmers' protests - I do hope we have one of those this year...


Why? Unless you enjoy the smell of burning wool. Freak.


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## raindog (5 Jul 2010)

Yes, I remember the farmer's one - they'd been chucking tacks all over the road. What year was it? Not that long ago.

Didn't a workers strike try to stop the peloton once and Hinault got off his bike and nutted one of 'em?


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> Why? Unless you enjoy the smell of burning wool. Freak.



[aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh] Chuffy falls headfirst into the gaping sarchasm! [/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh]


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## Chuffy (5 Jul 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> [aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh] Chuffy falls headfirst into the gaping sarchasm! [/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh]


Any excuse to call you a freak. 

o


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## Noodley (5 Jul 2010)

Nobody remember stage 10 from last year then? 

When they protested about removal of race radios....caused a kerfuffle at the time


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## Flying_Monkey (5 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> Any excuse to call you a freak.



I guess that's nice when it's usually you on the receiving end!


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## dragon72 (5 Jul 2010)

I reckon Thor's crossed Fabian off his party invitation list this afternoon. Not a happy Viking.


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## Mac66 (5 Jul 2010)

These guys are paid to race regardless of conditions. Taking this protest to its logical conclusion results in only racing on completely smooth roads, with no street furniture, providing that the race organisers also do anti-rain dances to appease the god(s) so that it stays dry. 

I am all for not taking advantage of opponents misfortunes but after the peleton regrouped, the racing should have recommenced in my opinion.


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## Chuffy (5 Jul 2010)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I guess that's nice when it's usually you on the receiving end!


See, if _I'm_ calling you a freak then it's a compliment. Mostly..


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## raindog (6 Jul 2010)

Mac66 said:


> I am all for not taking advantage of opponents misfortunes but after the peleton regrouped, the racing should have recommenced in my opinion.


Absolutely. I'm still searching for a valid reason why they didn't contest the sprint. It's understandable that Thor is pissed off, but Cav must be well chuffed.


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## raindog (6 Jul 2010)

Here are the rider's stories - must've been mayhem.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/reactions-from-a-crash-marred-stage-2


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

It seemed to me that the protest benefitted the GC contenders at the expense of the Maillot Vert contenders - I wonder slightly about how vociferous Mr. Riis was in advocating the protest, as he seems to have gained the most benefit (by the Schlecks having a reasonably easy run in).

My big worry is what will happen today - are they going to process over the cobbles as well? Might as well go back to the old formula of the tour with the flat (in both senses) first week where not much happens...

Fantastic win by Chavanel though, a rider I've always liked who very much deserved his moment in the spotlight today.


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## bobbyp (6 Jul 2010)

If some of the stories are to be believed then I can understand the protest. It sounds as if the mayhem was caused by the moto crashing after a rider came down. Seeing the coverage yesterday that moto looked far too close to the rider for a descent like that.

Its all very well expecting the riders to cope with weather and terrain but a support vehicle crashing on the course should surely have called for the organisers to neutralise that section until they were all through it?


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## raindog (6 Jul 2010)

I don't think there was a protest. The riders simply decided to regroup the peloton as half the teams were sliding about on their arses. Berto says after he crashed and managed to get going again he heard that AndyS was down too, so told his team to ease up and wait. I find that pretty classy.


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## yello (6 Jul 2010)

Mac66 said:


> I am all for not taking advantage of opponents misfortunes but after the peleton regrouped, the racing should have recommenced in my opinion.



One of the opinions expressed, and I can see the sense in it though I'm still undecided as to whether I agree or not, is that 'nobody' wanted to take advantage of *injured* riders. Hence no racing, no sprint.

This incident sounds like above and beyond racing to me. Whatever caused the offs, it does seem to me that it wasn't just a simple case of a wet road. No amount of skill can compensate for a diesel spill for instance. If it's the case that there was something abnormal (like a diesel spill) then I'd side with the action of Cancellera et al, a voluntary neutralisation. Sorry Thor!


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## lukesdad (6 Jul 2010)

Yes I agree with Yello s last post .I think thats it in a nutshell.


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

There _was_ a "voluntary neutralisation", but it was more voluntary in some cases than in others!

Cancellara, from his "piano, piano" gestures as the bunch approached the finish line, clearly regards himself as the patron of the peloton. Whether he is entitled to that status is another matter...

There seemed to be some riders who didn't mind nicking a few places in the final metres, so it is a good decision by the race officials not to award points other than to Chavanel.


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

It used to be that you didn't attack the race leader if he had a chute or a mechanical.

Now it's that you don't ride if the GC favourites are down? how far down the order does this favour get extended?

and what accidents du course are included in the list of reasons to neutralise the stage? If this year's Giro had been raced according to these rules, every other stage would have been ridden neutral, ffs.


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## threebikesmcginty (6 Jul 2010)

The road was very slippery, seemed more so than if it was just rain - there was that guy with the yellow shirt on (not Cancellara!) who almost went base over apex just walking across it trying to assist some of the riders.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> Cancellara, from his "piano, piano" gestures as the bunch approached the finish line, clearly regards himself as the patron of the peloton. Whether he is entitled to that status is another matter...
> 
> There seemed to be some riders who didn't mind nicking a few places in the final metres, so it is a good decision by the race officials not to award points other than to Chavanel.


That would be because he was in yellow, yes? The maillot jaune carries a certain amount of responsibility, I don't think it's an ego thing.

There is a pic of an HTC rider gesturing at another rider who is doing just that as he crosses the line.


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## Landslide (6 Jul 2010)

Mac66 said:


> These guys are paid to race regardless of conditions. Taking this protest to its logical conclusion results in only racing on completely smooth roads, with no street furniture, providing that the race organisers also do anti-rain dances to appease the god(s) so that it stays dry.



We shall call it...

A VELODROME!!!


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> That would be because he was in yellow, yes? The maillot jaune carries a certain amount of responsibility, I don't think it's an ego thing.


I think a maillot jaune as temporary as Cancellara's confers little of the status which could be legitimately claimed by genuine "patrons" - riders of the calibre of Merckx, Hinault et al.


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Landslide said:


> We shall call it...
> 
> A VELODROME!!!


For some reason, this reminds me of the Knights who say "Ni" and their shrubbery... 

Don't mind me, just carry on


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## Landslide (6 Jul 2010)

Ha!


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## raindog (6 Jul 2010)

love it


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> I think a maillot jaune as temporary as Cancellara's confers little of the status which could be legitimately claimed by genuine "patrons" - riders of the calibre of Merckx, Hinault et al.


Perhaps not, but on special occasions someone has to speak up for the riders and that person would usually be the maillot-jaune, the responsibility comes with the jersey. Anyway, Spartacus is hardly some random nobody who picked the shirt up at the roadside.


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## fossyant (6 Jul 2010)

I assume I didn't miss much, was out all evening, and forgot to set the box, upon returning found ITV4 didn't have it on the ITV Player...FFS.......


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

Stephen Roche;
"Where does the bike racing start and stop? Legends are made from getting through all kinds of conditions. Whereas, if they're going to neutralise the race because it's raining and it's getting slippy – Some guys came down, and some guys didn't come down. The rider who gets down [the descent] without falling off deserves more merit than the guy who did fall off, but that's bike racing. I was very disappointed."
http://www.cyclosport.org/article.aspx?id=1500


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## Crackle (6 Jul 2010)

I hadn't realized they'd banned bike changes except from team cars because of mechanical doping. So on the cobbles today, most teams would normally position a mechanic with a spare bike next to the pave sections but instead it can only be done from the team car which may be 2K back.


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## marinyork (6 Jul 2010)

Crackle said:


> I hadn't realized they'd banned bike changes except from team cars because of mechanical doping. So on the cobbles today, most teams would normally position a mechanic with a spare bike next to the pave sections but instead it can only be done from the team car which may be 2K back.



Didn't hear them say that on Eurosport . No wonder people are a bit worried!


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> ...that person would usually be the maillot-jaune, the responsibility comes with the jersey.


I take your point.



Chuffy said:


> Anyway, Spartacus is hardly some random nobody who picked the shirt up at the roadside.


No; but Hinault, if annoyed with somebody, could and occasionally would exact retribution by making the racing intolerably hard - and he could do it over any kind of terrain. I don't think Cancellara is quite in that class, either as a rider or as a personality. From Paul Kimmage and from Fignon's "We were Young and Carefree" (recently read - highly recommended) I get the impression that the Badger could be a pretty fearsome individual!


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> Stephen Roche;
> "Where does the bike racing start and stop? Legends are made from getting through all kinds of conditions. Whereas, if they're going to neutralise the race because it's raining and it's getting slippy – Some guys came down, and some guys didn't come down. The rider who gets down [the descent] without falling off deserves more merit than the guy who did fall off, but that's bike racing. I was very disappointed."
> http://www.cyclosport.org/article.aspx?id=1500


Easy enough to say if you weren't riding the stage. From the rider reports it would appear that it wasn't just a 'normal' rain-slippery road, it was something more, with people coming off even when riding in a straight line. That's not a fair test of bike riding skill, it's just pure blind luck. The peloton doesn't protest and neutralise stages just because of a wee crash or because it suits any one team. Just look at the strada bianchi stage on the Giro for what they can and will ride through. Evans won that and even he was fully behind yesterdays action.
If they, collectively, decide that enough is enough then I would respect their professional opinion. Stephen Roche knows his stuff, sure, but he wasn't riding yesterday and nor were we.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> No; but Hinault, if annoyed with somebody, could and occasionally would exact retribution by making the racing intolerably hard - and he could do it over any kind of terrain. I don't think Cancellara is quite in that class, either as a rider or as a personality. From Paul Kimmage and from Fignon's "We were Young and Carefree" (recently read - highly recommended) I get the impression that the Badger could be a pretty fearsome individual!


No, he isn't and hurrah for that, Hinault was a Grade A nutjob. But being the Grand Patron and stepping up in a unique situation are two different things.

Must read the Fignon book...


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> ...not a fair test of bike riding skill, it's just pure blind luck. The peloton doesn't protest and neutralise stages just because of a wee crash...


I don't disagree with the sentiment, Chuffy, but none of this could have happened without race radio, and isn't that due to be taken away sometime soon?


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> Must read the Fignon book...


It's not unbiased, nor without some of the usual evasiveness and special pleading, but it's well written (in a French sorta way), generally well translated, and insightful. All the more interesting for being first hand, too. Fignon reckons he rode at the tail end of the Golden Age of cycling, and by the end of the book I agreed with him.


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## Landslide (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> ...Hinault was a Grade A nutjob.



I've always found that rather endearing...


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## raindog (6 Jul 2010)

Talking of Hinault and the Fignon book, there are loads of anecdotes in it of their time together, including getting pissed and racing the next day with hangovers, that kind of thing. It really was another age.


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> Easy enough to say if you weren't riding the stage. From the rider reports it would appear that it wasn't just a 'normal' rain-slippery road, it was something more, with people coming off even when riding in a straight line. That's not a fair test of bike riding skill, it's just pure blind luck. The peloton doesn't protest and neutralise stages just because of a wee crash or because it suits any one team. Just look at the strada bianchi stage on the Giro for what they can and will ride through. Evans won that and even he was fully behind yesterdays action.



So I can only comment if I was on the bike that day? 

Some folk made it down ok, so they get penalised because some didn't? 

I'm unsure what this means for the tour now. How many of the favourites need to be affected for by accidents du course this to happen again? Will they decide that the green jersey competition is null and void again? I don't get it. And this is before we even look at the fact that Riis' team benefitted to a large degree from this. 

Lots of stuff is luck - a lot of the early racing in the Giro seemed to be so.

Anyway, comment of the day, "Obviously something was wrong with the road, Menchov didn't fall off" -arf!


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

Joe Papp makes some good points here;
http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/07/risk-management-and-tour-de-frances-2nd.html

But I don't get this from the AP article he quotes;


> But *it would be best if the cobbles don’t skew the Tour outcome too much and the top contenders make it through safely. It would not be convincing if Armstrong or others win simply because the paving stones hobbled their rivals.*"


It's like saying the high mountains shouldn't stop a sprinter winning, surely?


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

I see that Hushovd was upset:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-furious-as-points-neutralised-in-spa

But if he was that upset, why didn't he just give Cancellara the finger and attack with his team? Does temporary ownership of the yellow jersey _really_ command that much respect, or is there something else going on, I wonder?


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> So I can only comment if I was on the bike that day?


No, but I think this is a one-off incident and as far as I'm concerned if that was the collective decision of the professionals who were riding, then so be it. Big Thor aside, obviously. I certainly don't think there's much point blowing it out of all proportion and fretting about future stages being neutralised because Cav has chipped a fingernail.

@Nick - It was a collective decision not to sprint, not just something that Cancellara decided on and enforced unilaterally. There were other riders at the front helping to maintain things. Sure, there may have been an element of self-interest from some of the teams (HTC for Cav, for example) but I think the main concern was that injured riders of all teams shouldn't be penalised. That's one of the things about bike racing that I really like, the way that you get these occasions where rivals actively support each other rather than taking the slightest opportunity to rip time out.


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## John the Monkey (6 Jul 2010)

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Chuffy.

I think Cervelo got the rough end of a mixture of sportsmanship and self interest from the other teams yesterday. To add insult to that, race organisers gave everyone in the Cancellara group two green jersey points, apparently. I mean, WHY?


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> Joe Papp makes some good points here;
> http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/07/risk-management-and-tour-de-frances-2nd.html
> 
> But I don't get this from the AP article he quotes;
> ...


Perhaps, but the cobbles aren't a regular feature, unlike the mountains. They're a one-off that favours certain GC contenders, or more precisely, _don't_ favour the likes of Contador. And they could well do more than cost time, they could easily cause a race-ending accident. You could look at that ludicrous tidal causeway section on the '99 route for an even more extreme precedent. The race organisers that year may as well have said that they would spread butter over a random section of road, just to introduce an element of chaos.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

John the Monkey said:


> I think we'll have to agree to disagree, Chuffy.
> 
> I think Cervelo got the rough end of a mixture of sportsmanship and self interest from the other teams yesterday. To add insult to that, race organisers gave everyone in the Cancellara group two green jersey points, apparently. I mean, WHY?


Fair enough, but really it was _only_ Cervelo and Thor in particular who that didn't suit. As for the two points, I didn't know that. God knows why, unless it was a sop to Thor.


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## Noodley (6 Jul 2010)

My take on it is that it was not a collective decision, if it had been then Cancellara would not have had to do so much hand-waving and pointing. There were sprinters and sprinters' teams quite prepared to go for the sprint...bad decision by Cancellara: he put his team above the peloton in my mind. He'll have lost a bit of respect from a lot of riders, who were responding to the jersey rather than the man - whereas he looked after his own team...

But, it'll pass...


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> *It's not unbiased, nor without some of the usual evasiveness and special pleading*, but it's well written (in a French sorta way), generally well translated, and insightful. All the more interesting for being first hand, too. Fignon reckons he rode at the tail end of the Golden Age of cycling, and by the end of the book I agreed with him.


It's an autobiography innit?

As for the Golden Age, isn't that always the Age when _you_ were in your prime, before the pygmies and lesser men took over? Also applies to politics, literature and any other branch of sport.


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## fossyant (6 Jul 2010)

Oi Stage 3 has started and was won by a battey enhanced 'Project Black' Roubaix SL3 by Cancellara.................

http://road.cc/content/news/19693-t...ellaras-specialized-project-black-roubaix-sl3


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> It's an autobiography innit?
> 
> As for the Golden Age, isn't that always the Age when _you_ were in your prime, before the pygmies and lesser men took over? Also applies to politics, literature and any other branch of sport.


Yebbut, nobut... it was in 91/92/93 that EPO really got a grip. Before then, all the dope in the world couldn't turn a donkey into a thoroughbred, so race results were fundamentally credible. 

Ironically, Greg Lemond (Fignon's bete noir) is of exactly the same (retrospective) opinion.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

User3094 said:


> I fear it was a bit of protectionism on his part though


Surely that part of his job ended once the Schlecks had got back on?


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> ...if that was the collective decision of the professionals who were riding, then so be it...


I'm not convinced it was. I think it was essentially the decision of team bosses, passed around by radio.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> Yebbut, nobut... it was in 91/92/93 that EPO really got a grip. Before then, all the dope in the world couldn't turn a donkey into a thoroughbred, so race results were fundamentally credible.


Who mentioned drugs? 



> Ironically, Greg Lemond (Fignon's bete noir) is of exactly the same (retrospective) opinion.


Hmmm, could that be because it was his Age as well? 

I thought the Golden Age was in the 70s with Merckx? No, it was the 60's with Anquetil and Poulidor. No, tell a lie, it was the 50s with Coppi. Hang on, that's not right, it was the 30s with Magne and Leduq. Or was it the early 1900s before those cheating whoopsies started using freewheels? Etc...


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

Chuffy said:


> Who mentioned drugs?


Er, Fignon did! At quite some length. That's one of the things that I thought made the book interesting.

PS reading the Fignon book made me go back to my collection of Kennedy Brothers/Pierre Martin Tour (Giro and TdF) annuals. They really are very good reading - possibly the best, most insightful bike racing journalism ever. There are several of them currently available on Amazon at silly (low) prices - the years most pertinent to Fignon, as it happens. Highly recommended for anybody who likes cycling history!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node=10193911&field-keywords=pierre+martin&x=8&y=12


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## NickM (6 Jul 2010)

And another thing! They didn't have those pesky race radios in Fignon's day!!


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

NickM said:


> And another thing! They didn't have those pesky race radios in Fignon's day!!


It were all fields in his day! And summer lasted forever and we had proper snow an' all.


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## Chuffy (6 Jul 2010)

Hilarious write up on NY Velocity. 



> Let me just run that through my SMASH to English translator (and yes, I know Thor SMASH speaks perfect English, but this is much more fun—read the following section aloud with an Ahhhnold-type accent for maximum fun). "I was looking to have the maximum SMASHing, and had made the other sprinters my peahens. Then the man who smells like tiny soaps that you keep in dish in bathtub, said there would be no SMASHing. How am I to SMASH the manliness of my rivals into dust that I can keep in small bottles on my mantlepiece?"


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## NickM (7 Jul 2010)

Unhappy news about Fignon:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fignon-at-the-tour-de-france-despite-battling-cancer

I always liked him - specs and pony tail, just like me in those days... I hope he sells a million copies of his book, anyway.


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