# The justice league of camera cyclist ride out.



## veloevol (10 May 2015)

Featuring the riding skills of Traffic Droid (Lewis Dediare) and Sue Perb (Dave Sherry)

http://sendvid.com/dgiuf4vz


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## Drago (10 May 2015)

Justice League? That's a laugh.

Traffic Droid has the riding skills - and people skills - of a small dachshund that's had all its limbs amputated. He's an embarrassment to cyclists in general, and while his motives are doubtless genuine (at least in his mind) him and his Ilk do terrible damage to our image and relations as a group with other road users due to their confrontational and abrasive behaviour.


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## glenn forger (10 May 2015)

Nothing happened. Tedious. Needs more shouty angry little men:

nsfw swears and shouty angry little men


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeialfBlkOI


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## Drago (10 May 2015)

You wouldn't think such a tiny person could afford to be so gobby. It's doubtful his body could cash the cheques his mouth is writing. Mind you, the cyclist has a penis shaped head too.


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## ianrauk (10 May 2015)

They deserve each other. They make a lovely couple.


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## Origamist (11 May 2015)

WTF


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## ianrauk (11 May 2015)

Droid is so busy berating a motorcyclist (or indicating right?) that he swerves left into the other lane without looking or indicating and forcing a minivan to brake.


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## thefollen (11 May 2015)

In reference to to Motorcyclist / Cyclist vid- despite being a potentially serious and unpleasant situation I really laughed in places. Especially when the biker found himself stuck!

Remember those roadworks when they shut the underpass- what a pain, and as you see made everyone scramble around each other. I often would unclip and jog with the bike on my shoulder to the end traffic lights- much quicker than cycling in those conditions.


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## mr_cellophane (11 May 2015)

So who filmed that ?


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## glasgowcyclist (11 May 2015)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I tried to watch it, but it appears to be a private video.



You were lucky...


GC


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## 4F (11 May 2015)

Nobbers of the world unite.


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## ianrauk (11 May 2015)

This is their other one.

Apparently, 'they're two cyclists united with a common cause...road safety for all...the justice league of cyclists...fighting road crimes..watching out for others too..'



Codenames.. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum*


*I made this bit up, but it seems to fit. 

He's disabled the embedded video link. 
So *HERE* is the link to the vid.


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## glasgowcyclist (11 May 2015)

"Making mountains out of molehills a speciality"

GC


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## Drago (11 May 2015)

Blimey. It's the titles for a remake of The Streets of San Francisco, with the actors replaced by two twots.

Does anyone else think that selfie stick is going to end up speared through Traffic Droids scrotum if he has a prang?


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## Nigel-YZ1 (11 May 2015)

Just thought... I'd better check the new paint in the bedroom has dried when I get home...


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## glasgowcyclist (11 May 2015)

Drago said:


> Blimey. It's the titles for a remake of The Streets of San Francisco, with the actors replaced by two twots.



Which one's Bum Nose?


GC


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## sidevalve (11 May 2015)

All we need - arrogant numpties on two wheels as well as four.


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## downfader (11 May 2015)

Interestingly, despite my attempting to stick up for Lewis he has had a fit and blocked me on both twitter and youtube. All I said was I'd appreciated his efforts but the rhetoric of Spartans and war was going too far one particular weekend.


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## ianrauk (11 May 2015)

He just can't take any sort of criticism, helpful or bad.


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## downfader (11 May 2015)

ianrauk said:


> He just can't take any sort of criticism, helpful or bad.


Thats the sad thing I think. From personal interactions with him via social media he appears to have lost touch a little... (trying to be diplomatic here)


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## ianrauk (11 May 2015)

downfader said:


> Thats the sad thing I think. From personal interactions with him via social media he appears to have lost touch a little... (trying to be diplomatic here)




Lost touch a little?


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## markharry66 (12 May 2015)

Move on, ignore and forget I think most people do.


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## Drago (12 May 2015)

What sad, unfulfilling lives these chaps must lead.


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## ianrauk (12 May 2015)

User13710 said:


> Oh I don't know. I suspect they revel in their exciting lives, now they've got such a strong mission to pursue every day. It's just a pity all that energy couldn't be directed towards something more constructive.



I think it's a case of they really do believe in their own (little world) publicity. If they did want change and to help others achieve that then they should join and/or volunteer for one of the big campaign groups. LCC, CTC etc and campaign in a way that would be of more help then the silly little Batman and Robin fantasies that they harbour at the moment.


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## subaqua (12 May 2015)

and Sherry is such a good cyclist he uses the tube instead of cycling and films people peeing in Bottles .


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## ianrauk (12 May 2015)

subaqua said:


> and Sherry is such a good cyclist he uses the tube instead of cycling and films people peeing in Bottles .




And iirc got caught out lying about an altercation with a driver on here.
An interesting thread. Will go find and have a re-read.


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## Pale Rider (12 May 2015)

I know Droid is a big lad, but I'm surprised he's not been filled in a few times.

Unless he has and those clips didn't make it onto his channel.


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## glasgowcyclist (12 May 2015)

ianrauk said:


> And iirc got caught out lying about an altercation with a driver on here.
> An interesting thread. Will go find and have a re-read.



He hasn't been back since a number of us pointed out his version of events didn't tally with the video evidence. Hoist by his own petard.

GC


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## Cuchilo (12 May 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Nothing happened. Tedious. Needs more shouty angry little men:
> 
> nsfw swears and shouty angry little men
> 
> ...



That ones funny though


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## Drago (12 May 2015)

They're starring in their own film...


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-rhTZK0kE


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## winjim (12 May 2015)

I recognise Droid, is the one in hi viz Sue Perb? I don't think much of his signalling or general roadcraft.

Re: cyclist vs motorcyclist, the bit where he gets stuck is hilarious, but the important bit is the cyclist's remark right at the end about escalation...


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## jonny jeez (12 May 2015)

ianrauk said:


> And iirc got caught out lying about an altercation with a driver on here.
> An interesting thread. Will go find and have a re-read.


Link please


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## glasgowcyclist (12 May 2015)

jonny jeez said:


> Link please



https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cyclist-assaulted-by-white-van-man.135397/

Gc


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## Drago (12 May 2015)

Bloody hell, beaten up by a Chuckle Brother.


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## J1888 (13 May 2015)

Droid is a LEGEND


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## ianrauk (13 May 2015)

Yes, of course he is.


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## Drago (13 May 2015)

An odd way of spelling 'chump'.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (13 May 2015)

My autocorrect does that when I want to type BELLEND.


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## Tynan (13 May 2015)

It mean be a little bit off the beaten track but his cause is just and from what I've seen he's always right if a little petty, nearly everyone on here grumbles about driving and courtesy but takes the piss at someone actually addressing it and doing something about it, I saw him on the evening news once.

And I'd be fairly sure he/they have an idea that they're seen as a bit odd. God knows I see enough idiots on bikes every single morning.


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## RedRider (13 May 2015)

I agree with the above. He gets an overly hard time on here in my opinion. I get there's a feeling his behaviour reflects badly on cyclists and has a negative impact and I'm sure it slices that way with some non cyclists too but I'm equally sure others find his antics amusing and reflect on what he's trying to do.
It takes all sorts to add to the general noise required for cycling to reclaim its place as a viable way of getting about for more people and sometimes the most unlikely things make a positive difference. 
His heart's in the right place. I say long live the nobber.


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (13 May 2015)

OK, so I take back the "bellend" comment and I do agree that what he's doing is for the right reasons. The problem is, if you're going to video people and post the results online, you need to make sure your cycling is beyond reproach. Most of Droid's videos make me wince.


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## Drago (13 May 2015)

He's always right? Excuse me, I need to go and change my Y fronts as I just laughed so much a bit of pop came out.

As for the reasons he does it, what he would like us to think, what he himself thinks, and what subliminally actually drives him to do this are probably 3 completely different things entirely.


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## J1888 (14 May 2015)

I think some of the personal bile directed at the guy seems a bit much.

Aye, what he does is more than a bit odd and you can disagree with him, but no need for insulting him, you're all supposed to be adults, right?


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## J1888 (14 May 2015)

Drago said:


> He's always right? Excuse me, I need to go and change my Y fronts as* I just laughed so much a bit of pop came out.*
> 
> As for the reasons he does it, what he would like us to think, what he himself thinks, and what subliminally actually drives him to do this are probably 3 completely different things entirely.



You could make money out of that.


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## J.Primus (14 May 2015)

J1888 said:


> I think some of the personal bile directed at the guy seems a bit much.
> 
> Aye, what he does is more than a bit odd and you can disagree with him, but no need for insulting him, you're all supposed to be adults, right?



Adults don't insult people?


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## J1888 (14 May 2015)

J.Primus said:


> Adults don't insult people?



Not that they don't know (normally). Classic keyboard-warriorism, bet they wouldn't say it to his face!


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## J.Primus (14 May 2015)

J1888 said:


> Not that they don't know (normally). Classic keyboard-warriorism, bet they wouldn't say it to his face!


Why wouldn't they? Is he supposed to be some sort of hard case. I certainly would if I get caught up in his nonsense. The mans a pillock and makes things worse for cyclists every time he goes out pretending he's batman.


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## sue perb (7 Jun 2015)

I have done a better video for you all


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## slowmotion (7 Jun 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Which one's Bum Nose?
> 
> 
> GC


 Thanks for the reminder. He was the best part of the series.


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## glasgowcyclist (8 Jun 2015)

sue perb said:


> I have done a better video for you all




Jesus H Christ..

Could the three of you not go out and meet some women?

GC


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## veloevol (5 Jul 2015)

Another quality production from the justice league


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## mr_cellophane (6 Jul 2015)

"Ham Sandwich" incredibly insensitive the those killed by HGVs


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## Origamist (6 Jul 2015)

Well intentioned (I think); but amateurish, grossly insensitive and fails miserably to address the fundamental issues of road danger. Avoid.


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## PK99 (6 Jul 2015)

J1888 said:


> Droid is a LEGEND



don't you mean BELLEND?


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## CopperBrompton (6 Jul 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Could the three of you not go out and meet some women?


Never has anyone ever been so much in need of getting laid ...


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## si_c (7 Jul 2015)

Trikeman said:


> Never has anyone ever been so much in need of getting laid ...



Well, they do have each other....


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## fossyant (7 Jul 2015)

Hmm, more self promotion. We know what happened last time.


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## glasgowcyclist (7 Jul 2015)

si_c said:


> Well, they do have each other....



I don't think I'm ready for that video.

GC


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## si_c (7 Jul 2015)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I don't think I'm ready for that video.
> 
> GC



Well, you know what they say, if you can think of it, there's porn of it.


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## subaqua (7 Jul 2015)

is the logo at the bottom a rip off of the CTC logo ?

if the CTC sanction cockwomblery like this then I may have to rethink membership


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## 4F (7 Jul 2015)

What a pair of


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## jefmcg (23 Aug 2015)

Traffic Droid has been knocked down.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_6ibr7zfb8


(Nasty, but I assume he is basically OK, at least well enough to get the vid uploaded)


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Traffic Droid has been knocked down.
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_6ibr7zfb8
> ...



It would be interesting to see that footage unedited from every angle.

It just goes to show though, parping a horn at people doesn't make you safer!


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## mr_cellophane (23 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> It would be interesting to see that footage unedited from every angle.
> 
> It just goes to show though, parping a horn at people doesn't make you safer!


No, parping at people and then passing them, doesn't make you safer. I suspect getting infamous for reporting every minor traffic offence to the police doesn't help either.


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## Glow worm (23 Aug 2015)

Christ- what a lunatic driver! Hopefully that will have been their final fare.


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

mr_cellophane said:


> No, parping at people and then passing them, doesn't make you safer. I suspect getting infamous for reporting every minor traffic offence to the police doesn't help either.


Is he infamous amongst taxi drivers? Or just cyclists?


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## shouldbeinbed (23 Aug 2015)

Glow worm said:


> Christ- what a lunatic driver! Hopefully that will have been their final fare.



Yes. looks like the taxi driver took offence at the hooting and stopped for a chat, sotw rode on by, apparently not keen on explaining himself and the driver came too close to have round 2 of the conversation, its muffled but sounds like 'whats your problem' as the taxi shoulder barges him off his bike. Poor car control I suspect rather than a deliberate attack, but either way, I wouldn't want to be in or near that cab.

From what the vid shows the first pass was too close and deserves looking at by the licensing authority, but cyclist with an agenda coming tooled up to fight a ton and a half of vehicle with an airzound is only going to have one winner when (not if) they meet mr angry. 

I suspect if sotw reports it to the cops, the driver will have good grounds to claim provocation and the accident only happened because sotw didn't stop when it would have been easy to do so & driver felt forced into a risky manoeuvre by the cyclist hooting and then just riding on by when he'd stopped to ask if anything was wrong.


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## summerdays (23 Aug 2015)

Really poor driving by the taxi and IMO he purposely bumped into him. I'm not a fan of the bloke but nobody deserves that, I hope the taxi driver has a lot of explaining to do to both his boss/taxi authority and the police!


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## PK99 (23 Aug 2015)

*112*
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you _need to warn other road users of your presence_. *Never sound your horn aggressively.* .......


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## Drago (23 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> It just goes to show though, parping...



No one is safe when I go parp!


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> No one is safe when I go parp!


Yeah, but I bet you get some space.


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## Origamist (23 Aug 2015)

I hope SOTW is OK.

I'd be very surprised if the police/CPS don't act as there is little justification for the first pass which was too close and no justification for the dangerous and abysmal driving that caused the collision. Of course, the cabbie will say it wasn't deliberate (which it certainly appears to be) but he'll still have to justify attempting an overtake, whilst passing parked cars, in the face of oncoming traffic and hitting another road user (who does not appear to change his lateral position), as he did so. Driving without due care and attention should be a stick on, but who knows.

I reckon this video will have hundreds of thousands of hits within a week.

PS Left brake light not working?


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> I'd be very surprised if the police/CPS don't act as there is little justification for the first pass which was too close and no justification for the dangerous and abysmal driving that followed. Of course, the cabbie will say it wasn't deliberate (which it certainly appears to be) but he'll still have to justify attempting an overtake, whilst passing parked cars, in the face of oncoming traffic and hitting another road user (who does not appear to change his lateral position), as he did so. Driving without due care and attention should be a stick on, but who knows.


I think I'd need to see the unedited footage in order to make a judgement on any of those points.


Origamist said:


> I reckon this video will have hundreds of thousands of hits within a week.


Sounds lucrative.


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## Drago (23 Aug 2015)

The way Twaffic Dwoid rides I'm surprised that it was actually someone else's fault when he eventually came a cropper. What are the odds, eh?


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## Origamist (23 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> I think I'd need to see the unedited footage in order to make a judgement on any of those points.
> 
> Sounds lucrative.



Why? What are you struggling with when watching the redacted version?

Yes, I'm sure SOTW will be retiring to The Hamptons by Xmas.


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Why? What are you struggling with when watching the redacted version?


The way it's edited so you don't see the whole incident from any angle. Neither do you see whatever preceded the incident, nor the aftermath. It may be the truth, but not the whole truth.


> Yes, I'm sure SOTW will be retiring to The Hamptons by Xmas.


I have accused Traffic Droid and @sue perb of trolling this forum for profit. They have not replied to me.


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## Drago (23 Aug 2015)

I accused the Dwoid of RLJing in one of his videos, and he has also failed to respond. Indeed, he tried to commit suicide under a taxi rather than respond to reasonable questions.


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## Origamist (23 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> The way it's edited so you don't see the whole incident from any angle. Neither do you see whatever preceded the incident, nor the aftermath. It may be the truth, but not the whole truth.
> 
> I have accused Traffic Droid and @sue perb of trolling this forum for profit. They have not replied to me.



You'll have to wait for the redux version, then. As it is, you can still see the lead up to the collision, the collision and the immediate aftermath. Tell me what you can see from the available film, it's hardly "Rashomon".

Is the lack of response to your question relevant, here?


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## Drago (23 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Is the lack of response to your question relevant, here?



I think it is.


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## raleighnut (23 Aug 2015)

Both a pair of twats but I didn't think that looked all that close a pass (the first one) and why did Trafficdweeb then undertake the taxi. Also he then seemed to have plenty of space (unless his handlebars are 4ft wide) and deliberately 'leant' on the cab before he fell.
He might have a bit more control on his bike if he didn't have all that gubbins (modified selfie stick?) poking out the front.
I too feel there has been some 'creative' editing going on in the footage posted.


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## Origamist (23 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> I think it is.



Perhaps historically, but this video was not posted by the "Justice League" on CycleChat.


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## Origamist (23 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Both a pair of twats but I didn't think that looked all that close a pass (the first one) and why did Trafficdweeb then undertake the taxi. Also he then seemed to have plenty of space (unless his handlebars are 4ft wide) and deliberately 'leant' on the cab before he fell.
> He might have a bit more control on his bike if he didn't have all that gubbins (modified selfie stick?) poking out the front.
> I too feel there has been some 'creative' editing going on in the footage posted.



Are you seriously suggesting he had "plenty of space" when the cab pulled alongside the second time?


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## winjim (23 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> You'll have to wait for the redux version, then. As it is, you can still see the lead up to the collision, the collision and the immediate aftermath. Tell me what you can see from the available film, it's hardly "Rashomon".


I am unsure of the temporal sequence of the edited segments. I am therefore unable to tell you what I see.


Origamist said:


> Is the lack of response to your question relevant, here?


It implies a certain motivation towards the uploading of these videos, not necessarily consistent with the stated objective of improving road safety, nor with giving an objective, unbiased account of events.


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## raleighnut (23 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Are you seriously suggesting he had "plenty of space" when the cab pulled alongside the second time?


I, for one, would have used my brakes in that situation.
I've also managed to get through gaps far 'tighter' than that appeared in the video but as soon as Trafficdweeb 'leant' on the cab he was guaranteed to come off


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> I am unsure of the temporal sequence of the edited segments. I am therefore unable to tell you what I see.
> 
> It implies a certain motivation towards the uploading of these videos, not necessarily consistent with the stated objective of improving road safety, nor with giving an objective, unbiased account of events.



Seriously? You can't follow the sequence events? If that's the case, I'd stick to watching live CCTV streams from convenience stores as the video is only a short, multi-perspective take on a collision - it's not a Chris Marker production.

If you're wondering why it is edited, it is to disguise the fact that sue perb was driving the taxi and it's all staged to make millions of pounds on LiveLeak and social media.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I, for one, would have used my brakes in that situation.
> I've also managed to get through gaps far 'tighter' than that appeared in the video but as soon as Trafficdweeb 'leant' on the cab he was guaranteed to come off



Of course, you would have had the dexterity to avoid the collision and I'm sure in the past you have been passed with only mms to spare. That's not what I asked though.

Do you think the cyclist was passed with plenty of space?

Here is a frame grab before the collision:


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

Nice screen grab, it shows exactly what I stated that trafficdweeb is blatantly about to lean on the taxi *despite* having 5-6ft of room on the inside.
If he plans on having an argument with 2 tonnes of metal driven by an irate nobber (better known as a London cabbie) he'd be better off not being on a cycle.
I return to my original statement that they're both idiots and Trafficdweebs actions meant him hitting the deck was inevitable.


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

It doesn't actually matter whether he leans towards the cab, you naturally move around a little and if he was trying to get away he will be pushing harder. However a vehicle shouldn't pass so close that someone could lean into them and should only pass if it is clear to make the overtake completely. There is a space on his left but I think it's just a gap in the parked cars rather than a clear lane.


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

User said:


> Door zone


Brakes!


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Brakes!


Yes the taxi should have braked sooner.

Edit: Beaten to it by Adrian


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## winjim (24 Aug 2015)

The first pass is too close, close enough that Droid feels the need to sound his horn, which to me is confrontational and aggravates the situation but there you go. So at this point, we have identified that the taxi driver is aggressive and prone to making close passes. So what does Droid do? Makes an undertaking manouvre, further antagonising the taxi driver and putting someone known for dangerous close passes _behind him_ again, inviting another close pass!

At the point where I had identified the dangerous driver, I would have ensured he was driving nowhere near me, and certainly not behind me. And I wouldn't have wound him up by parping my horn and then swerving round the front of his car.


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> The first pass is too close, close enough that Droid feels the need to sound his horn, which to me is confrontational and aggravates the situation but there you go. So at this point, we have identified that the taxi driver is aggressive and prone to making close passes. So what does Droid do? Makes an undertaking manouvre, further antagonising the taxi driver and putting someone known for dangerous close passes _behind him_ again, inviting another close pass!
> 
> At the point where I had identified the dangerous driver, I would have ensured he was driving nowhere near me, and certainly not behind me. And I wouldn't have wound him up by parping my horn and then swerving round the front of his car.


I assume he decided he didn't want to hang around and talk to a taxi driver who had just decided to brake abruptly in front of him, you don't tend to get nice invites to come and partake in a cup of tea and a natter after that. I suspect I'd want to leave the scene too!


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Perhaps historically, but this video was not posted by the "Justice League" on CycleChat.



Because most of us on here can see how they get cyclists a bad name, and aren't afraid to tell them.

This pair completely negate - and then some - the good work that the likes BC, CTC, the various talking heads like Boredman etc in reasonably presenting our case and sensibly raising our profile.


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## winjim (24 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> I assume he decided he didn't want to hang around and talk to a taxi driver who had just decided to brake abruptly in front of him, you don't tend to get nice invites to come and partake in a cup of tea and a natter after that. I suspect I'd want to leave the scene too!


He's a vigilante, he's not supposed to run away!

ETA: Anyway, he initiated the conversation by parping his horn, and he's not exactly been shy of confronting people in the past. It's sort of his Raison d'Etre.


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> The first pass is too close, close enough that Droid feels the need to sound his horn, which to me is confrontational and aggravates the situation but there you go. So at this point, we have identified that the taxi driver is aggressive and prone to making close passes. So what does Droid do? Makes an undertaking manouvre, further antagonising the taxi driver and putting someone known for dangerous close passes _behind him_ again, inviting another close pass!
> 
> At the point where I had identified the dangerous driver, I would have ensured he was driving nowhere near me, and certainly not behind me. And I wouldn't have wound him up by parping my horn and then swerving round the front of his car.


Quite, and then to ride right out in the road suggests monumental stupidity on Trafficdweebs part, or a desire to get footage of the taxidrivers further reaction (which I'd have thought was fairly predictable)


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## Andrew_P (24 Aug 2015)

User said:


> Door zone


Hmmm lets see now ride in door zone for the few seconds of the pass or take on a taxi on my bike with my only shield my array of video equipment. No brainer really.

I don't understand why in all these videos the cyclist pokes the wasps nest and then runs off. Or worse still gets in front of the offender allowing them the opportunity to repeat. Even if the cabbie gets out and lumps him one he would have just about every conceivable angle covered in glorious HD.


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

User said:


> What I am reading here is that, faced with any level of intimidation, what we should do is reward that by acquiescence. Have I got that right or wrong?


I personally would have waited for the taxi driver to get out of his vehicle............................Then chinned him but that's just me.


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## Cuchilo (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I personally would have waited for the taxi driver to get out of his vehicle............................Then chinned him but that's just me.


I'd have nicked his taxi


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I personally would have waited for the taxi driver to get out of his vehicle............................Then got stabbed by the irate motorist.



FTFY.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

When you've been to a cyclist stabbed stabbed by a motorist and used your fleece to try and stem the bleeding, then maybe you'll see how pathetic at best, futile at worst becoming involved in a confrontation with a motorist is.

When a friend of your daughters has seen their father die during a road rage incident, maybe you'll see how ridiculous such behaviour is.

Childish, infantile, pointless behaviour which gains the participants no benefit or advantage whatsoever at best, and can leave them sitting a cloud playing a harp at worst. If you think that's big or clever then you be my guest and carry right on.

I've got more size and skills than most to back up my gob in a confrontation, and I still wouldn't bother.


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## PK99 (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> *I, for one, would have used my brakes in that situation*.



*From Droid's Selfie cam in other videos*, he only ever seems to use the RH brake lever and his horn button is on the RH STI shifter effectively forcing a choice between brake and horn - he often prioritises horn over brake.


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## Andrew_P (24 Aug 2015)

User said:


> Where is that video filmed from the taxi of the cyclist coming unstuck in the door zone?


Sorry if it sounds stupid to you or TrafficDroid but my risk calculation at the time of an event like that would be the door zone whilst slowing and stopping and then in all likelihood I would chase the Taxi down.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> Nice screen grab, it shows exactly what I stated that trafficdweeb is blatantly about to lean on the taxi *despite* having 5-6ft of room on the inside.
> If he plans on having an argument with 2 tonnes of metal driven by an irate nobber (better known as a London cabbie) he'd be better off not being on a cycle.
> I return to my original statement that they're both idiots and Trafficdweebs actions meant him hitting the deck was inevitable.



Thanks. I take it from your repeated inability to answer a straight forward question that you're continuing to insist the driver gave the the cyclist plenty of room. If that is the case, I hope you are in a minority of one on this forum.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> Because most of us on here can see how they get cyclists a bad name, and aren't afraid to tell them.
> 
> This pair completely negate - and then some - the good work that the likes BC, CTC, the various talking heads like Boredman etc in reasonably presenting our case and sensibly raising our profile.



I'd agree that some of the "Justice League's" (I even wince when I type that) productions are not helping the cause of cycle campaigning or reducing road danger. However, in this case, (and by your own statement up-thread) you seem to be of the view that this was not SOTW's fault?

FWIW, this is a classic case of boy cries wolf and I can understand some of the skepticism, but a number of people on this thread seem to be blinded to some appalling driving in the video.


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## ianrauk (24 Aug 2015)

As much as I think the TD is a very poor cyclist, no way does he deserve to be run off the road deliberately by that taxi driver. Because that's what it was... deliberate.


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> Thanks. I take it from your repeated inability to answer a straight forward question that you're continuing to insist the driver gave the the cyclist plenty of room. If that is the case, I hope you are in a minority of one on this forum.


No the first pass was too close no question and I certainly did not refer to that as him having 'plenty of room'...................................... but Trafficdweebs further actions provoked the cabbie into an incident in which poor Dweeb was bound to come off worse and as for then leaning on the vehicle.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

winjim said:


> The first pass is too close, close enough that Droid feels the need to sound his horn, which to me is confrontational and aggravates the situation but there you go. So at this point, we have identified that the taxi driver is aggressive and prone to making close passes. So what does Droid do? Makes an undertaking manouvre, further antagonising the taxi driver and putting someone known for dangerous close passes _behind him_ again, inviting another close pass!
> 
> At the point where I had identified the dangerous driver, I would have ensured he was driving nowhere near me, and certainly not behind me. And I wouldn't have wound him up by parping my horn and then swerving round the front of his car.



Unusually, SOTW does the opposite of what I would have expected - he does not stop to confront the driver, but tries to go on his way and ignore the incident. If he'd hung around and got in a fist fight or had exchanged pleasantries for 2 minutes with the driver I can imagine the response on this forum. He can't win.


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## Mugshot (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> but I didn't think that looked all that close a pass (the first one)





raleighnut said:


> No the first pass was too close no question



Make your mind up.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> As much as I think the TD is a very poor cyclist, no way does he deserve to be run off the road deliberately by that taxi driver. Because that's what it was... deliberate.



I agree, he doesn't deserve it. Nevertheless, he brought the situation about by his own actions.

To go back to road rage for a moment, no one deserves to be stabbed but if you choose to place yourself face to face with a slavering loon then you're creating the opportunity.

I, and many of my CC Brothers and Sisters, ride the road in heavy urban traffic, much the same way the Dwoid does. Yet we ride with care, skill and circumspection, and while there may be the occasional brown Y fronts moment we generally don't suffer with being deliberately rammed off our bikes because we don't spend our days behaving in a manner intended to get peoples backs up. Like it or not drivers are only human, and pi** enough of them off you'll inevitably meet the psychopath with no inhibitions.

The difference between being righteous and being alive.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> *No the first pass was too close no question and I certainly did not refer to that as him having 'plenty of room'*...................................... but Trafficdweebs further actions provoked the cabbie into an incident in which poor Dweeb was bound to come off worse and as for then leaning on the vehicle.



I never sugguested you did. I have consistently referred to the second attempted pass where he is knocked off! I even supplied you with a frame grab showing the cab less than a foot from the cyclist.


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## PK99 (24 Aug 2015)

A horn should only be used when warning someone of danger, not to indicate your annoyance at a manner of driving.
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q406.htm

*Don’t use your horn to vent frustration*
Your horn is not a way for you to tell another driver you don’t like their driving. If someone’s driving creates an ongoing danger, call the police. Never lay on your horn out of frustration with another driver.

*Many instances of road rage begin with aggressive horn honking.* You never know another driver’s state of mind, the kind of day they’re having, or how they’ll react to your blaring horn. Your safety is the top priority, so be calm when driving. If you must honk your horn at someone, do it lightly. Also, do not yell, mouth words, or use hand gestures to show your anger.
http://www.driversedguru.com/driving-articles/drivers-ed-extras/horn-etiquette/


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## ianrauk (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> I agree, he doesn't deserve it. Nevertheless, he brought the situation about by his own actions.
> 
> To go back to road rage for a moment, no one deserves to be stabbed but if you choose to place yourself face to face with a slavering loon then you're creating the opportunity.
> 
> ...



The Taxi driver is a 'professional driver'. His conduct falls well below that of what is expected from his profession. That driver would have done the same to any cyclist, not just Trafficdroid.
And please give up with all the stabbing nonsense.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

In my humble experience, if you really want to annoy a twot when out on the road then the most infuriating thing you can do is completely ignore them.


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## Mugshot (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> In my humble experience, if you really want to annoy a twot when out on the road then the most infuriating thing you can do is completely ignore them.


So if you really want to not annoy a psycho that is almost certain to stab you, you should scream and shout and gesticulate at them and honk your horn if you have one, that would be the safest course of action?


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> So if you really want to not annoy a psycho that is almost certain to stab you, you should scream and shout and gesticulate at them and honk your horn if you have one, that would be the safest course of action?



People are quite prepared to twist their reasoning into knots in order to discredit SOTW.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> The Taxi driver is a 'professional driver'. His conduct falls well below that of what is expected from his profession. That driver would have done the same to any cyclist, not just Trafficdroid.
> And please give up with all the stabbing nonsense.



Absolutely, the driver was bang out of line and I never intimated otherwise. Nevertheless, Dwoid nrpugh the situation to a head with his own behaviour. I'm not interested in right or wrong when I'm on my bike - I'm interested in completing each journey alive and uninjured. For all the talk of road safety that Dwoid peddles he clearly doesn't believe it, cos safety is about being alive and unharmed and his actions are all too often contrary to that end.

And as for stabbings. Well, our puny little force area has about 1/20th the population of Greater London spread out across a largely rural county with one large town and several small ones, and we still get 8-10 violent road rage incident reported daily, many of which involve the use of weapons ranging from crook locks though swords up to firearms. You may recall Donald Lock, who was stabbed to death just recently. Its horrendous, and such violence is widespread and holds the potential for huge levels of unpleasantness at best and heartache at worst. So, whether I have you blessing not, when someone suggests they're a bit 'ard and would stop to chin the driver I will continue to urge them not to. Every single driver is armed with at least a tonne of deadly weapon, so you're on a loser before you even get started. 

If you think something positive can ever come from confrontation , or that my exhorting my compadres to protect their safety by avoiding confrontation is somehow a bad thing, then feel free to block my user name. I don't need your permission , I don't want to see anyone hurt or worse when it could be avoided, and I won't ever stop saying it.


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> In my humble experience, if you really want to annoy a twot when out on the road then the most infuriating thing you can do is completely ignore them.



Which can lead to a sudden outbreak of violence as well. Any response to an aggressive driver can lead to an escalation, even doing nothing and calmly carrying on. I find much of the stress of such situations is in gauging how best to respond. Ignore, smile, scream in fear, aggressively confront - each of these could be the button that explodes or defuses the situation. Quite often a cyclist is put in a situation where they can't win.


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## PK99 (24 Aug 2015)

benborp said:


> Quite often a cyclist is put in a situation where they can't win.



Droids's problem is that he quite often puts himself in a position where he can't win!


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## Drago (24 Aug 2015)

Droids problem is that he thinks his safety is secondary to being correct. And his other problem is that he's rarely correct either.


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## Andrew_P (24 Aug 2015)

In my experience both in the Car and on my Bike the more I ignore the aggressor the more it escalates as they think I am scared and they are bullies so thinking I am scared gives them the opportunity to carry on massaging their ego, until such time as I have had enough and the red mist descends.


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Drago said:


> If you think something positive can ever come from confrontation , or that my exhorting my compadres to protect their safety by avoiding confrontation is somehow a bad thing, then feel free to block my user name. I don't need your permission , I don't want to see anyone hurt or worse when it could be avoided, and I won't ever stop saying it.



On at least four occasions I have got off my bike and walked away from the road without indulging in any shouting or aggression, just simply removing myself from the presence of a driver I consider dangerous, only to find that they have pursued me on foot and are intent on physically assaulting me. On each of these occasions turning and confronting the driver immediately removed the threat. There have been numerous other times when I'm sure that my deliberately abrasive initial response to a drivers aggression has stopped the conflict dead. Every situation is different and there are no guarantees when responding to somebody's already bizarre behaviour.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

User said:


> No one got stabbed. Droid got assaulted with a taxi but I won't hold my breath waiting for any prosecution on an appropriate charge.



Well, if the CycleChat Prosecution Service were called upon to adjudicate, I'd imagine SOTW would be the one getting charged (for "aggressively" beeping his horn and his inability to avoid getting hit). Thankfully, and I'm not quite sure why I have this belief given the Met/CPS's form in this area, but I do have faith that a charge will be brought (maybe I'm just naive). However, I think this more likely to happen if the video goes viral. I'm also expecting a sequel, so winjim might get his desire to see more of the footage of the incident.


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## Milkfloat (24 Aug 2015)

My 2p worth (well 1.5p anyway).

Droid is an attention seeking individual who looks for trouble. However, he may have used his horn exactly as it should be used, it was a little parp not a long aggressive blast. The horn is to be used to say 'I am here', which in this case is fair use as if the driver had not seen him he could then suddenly pull in or turn left etc. Slightly tenuous I know, but perfectly plausible. In regards to the riding/driving, Droid seems to be well placed, just outside the door zone - so not complaints with the positioning from me. As soon as the driver passed Droid and the horn went, the driver slammed on the brakes as if he was waiting for a confrontation. Droid was well within his rights to continue on, I know I would have done the same, I don't have the time to educate drivers. As for leaning on the cab (which I don't see happening too much anyway), you have two choices, be pushed into parked cars at 20mph or try to squeeze through the gap with a vehicle doing roughly the same speed as you - which would you choose?

Despite Droid's usual antics, I don't see that he did much wrong here - the cab driver on the other hand committed a series of offences and the outcome could have been significantly worse.

The most worrying thing of all to me is some of the reaction on here - I would have expected a lynch mob for the driver, maybe that would have happened if if was not Droid, but if the situation is being viewed by people in polar opposite ways on a pro-cycling forum, what hope have cyclists when this reaches the police/cps/court.


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Milkfloat said:


> My 2p worth (well 1.5p anyway).
> 
> As for leaning on the cab (which I don't see happening too much anyway), you have two choices, be pushed into parked cars at 20mph or try to squeeze through the gap with a vehicle doing roughly the same speed as you - which would you choose?



There are certainly times when a deliberate lean on to a vehicle is the only way to stay upright. It is not a pleasant choice and only really any use when an awful lot of other options have disappeared. It most often crops up as a response to a deliberate squeeze. Funnily enough it has overwhelmingly been taxi drivers that have helped me develop the technique.


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> So if you really want to not annoy a psycho that is almost certain to stab you, you should scream and shout and gesticulate at them and honk your horn if you have one, that would be the safest course of action?


And if drawing everyone's attention to them isn't enough to stop the incident you have witnesses, someone to call the emergency services and maybe passers by to intervene. It's a valid technique.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> I assume he decided he didn't want to hang around and talk to *a taxi driver who had just decided to brake abruptly in front of him*, you don't tend to get nice invites to come and partake in a cup of tea and a natter after that. I suspect I'd want to leave the scene too!



come on be fair. the taxi didn't spontaneously brake, he responded being beeped at, for all we & sotw know *at that point *he might have been concerned for any reason under the sun and asking what the beeping was for to help or fix the problem in a nice manner. We don't have the benefit of the second pass there and then to judge if sotw further aggravated the situation after already escalating a poor pass with his airzound.

we also don't see anything of the aftermath of sotw hitting the deck and how the taxi driver responded, i suspect if it had been an aggressive and abusive tirade or just driving off, we'd have had that youtubed for posterity so the justice league get to score another martyr point, that the video cuts off so abruptly where it does is more than a tad suspicious from an impartial point of view.


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

I meant that he stopped suddenly in the road meaning that the cyclist he overtook was going to have to take an avoiding action whether it was to stop or go round. People don't stop like that because they are feeling happy and content with the world, and if he'd wanted to help he would have stopped in a different position, that was an aggressive stop.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> <snip> That driver would have done the same to any cyclist, not just Trafficdroid. <snip>
> .



really? If I'd tutted to myself and though w@nker (as is my usual with a close pass when I'm clearly in primary and have an 'out' if necessary) the driver would have spontaneously slammed his anchors on and if I'd then driven round him, pulled alongside shouting something out of his window at me?

the driver responded to the airzound, the airzound responded to the first poor pass and so the escalation goes. it took two to tango.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

On the one hand, we have Drago pointing out that a stabbing would not have surprised him if SOTW had stopped to confront the driver and shouldbeinbed suggests that the driver might well have been stopping to “fix the problem in a nice manner”, even though the situation seems to have been escalating. I’m not sure which outcome is more outlandish, possibly the latter.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

summerdays said:


> I meant that he stopped suddenly in the road meaning that the cyclist he overtook was going to have to take an avoiding action whether it was to stop or go round. People don't stop like that because they are feeling happy and content with the world, and if he'd wanted to help he would have stopped in a different position, that was an aggressive stop.


I'll have that and hindsight tends to assist that viewpoint, but if you go around sounding an airzound at people. it shouldn't come as a total surprise if now and again they stop like that at the provocation/indication that someone has some issue with your action - call it what you will.


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## PK99 (24 Aug 2015)

i have long thought that Droids propensity to use his horn to admonish drivers, or express annoyance, would sooner or later get him into trouble. 

Another ex inmate here has similar horn issues:

See 2:05 into this Video from one MatthewT:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAEdLshIARU


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

Origamist said:


> On the one hand, we have Drago pointing out that a stabbing would not have surprised him if SOTW had stopped to confront the driver and shouldbeinbed suggests that the driver might well have been stopping to “fix the problem in a nice manner”, even though the situation seems to escalating. I’m not sure which outcome is more outlandish, possibly the latter.


simply suggesting an alternative scenario *at that point* to yet another thread going down the mob mentality route on here.

have a read of my first post on the thread, I clearly call the poor driving for what it is and that I wouldn't wish to be in or around that cab.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> *simply suggesting an alternative scenario at that point to yet another thread going down the mob mentality route on here.*
> 
> have a read of my first post on the thread, I clearly call the poor driving for what it is and that I wouldn't wish to be in or around that cab.



Sadly, the irony of that post seems to be wasted on you.

An alternative scenario that seems very far-fetched, given what preceded it.


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Sounding an audible warning device when another road user passes closely without any apparent awareness of your presence is not escalating anything. It's what they are for.

Braking heavily and pulling to the left is not the response of a concerned motorist. Seeing as TD is so practiced at manipulating the weak wills of London's motorists to his every whim he would be perfectly aware of that and his decision not to engage was perfectly valid.

It's not at all taxing to think of several entirely legitimate reasons why, when prosecution is entirely possible, the face and justifications of such a driver are not broadcast.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

PK99 said:


> i have long thought that Droids propensity to use his horn to admonish drivers, or express annoyance, would sooner or later get him into trouble.
> 
> Another ex inmate here has similar horn issues:
> 
> ...




When did you first realise you had an unhealthy interest in horns?


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## raleighnut (24 Aug 2015)

Mugshot said:


> Make your mind up.


It was a close pass but it wasn't all that close, pretty standard IMO, Dweeb decided to blow his horn and then undertook (still an illegal manouvere as far as I know) and 'ramped' the cabbies anger up further.
Now where is that thread ignore button, cos I'm getting fed up with this argument and feel that they are both pillocks.


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## ianrauk (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> really? If I'd tutted to myself and though w@nker (as is my usual with a close pass when I'm clearly in primary and have an 'out' if necessary) the driver would have spontaneously slammed his anchors on and if I'd then driven round him, pulled alongside shouting something out of his window at me?
> 
> the driver responded to the airzound, the airzound responded to the first poor pass and so the escalation goes. it took two to tango.




He's supposedly a professional driver with a duty of care to other road user's and passengers. It was pure vindictiveness that he knocked droid over. I'm not saying that droid wasn't at fault and I agree he does escalate situations however the taxi driver could have just stopped and given him an earful but no, he decided to use his car as a weapon and that is unforgivable.


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## summerdays (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> feel that they are both pillocks.


Only one of the pillocks put the life of the other at risk.


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## Milkfloat (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> come on be fair. the taxi didn't spontaneously brake, he responded being beeped at, for all we & sotw know *at that point *he might have been concerned for any reason under the sun and asking what the beeping was for to help or fix the problem in a nice manner. We don't have the benefit of the second pass there and then to judge if sotw further aggravated the situation after already escalating a poor pass with his airzound.
> 
> we also don't see anything of the aftermath of sotw hitting the deck and how the taxi driver responded, i suspect if it had been an aggressive and abusive tirade or just driving off, we'd have had that youtubed for posterity so the justice league get to score another martyr point, that the video cuts off so abruptly where it does is more than a tad suspicious from an impartial point of view.



The taxi driver knocked off the cyclist - you seem to think that is alright?


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

Milkfloat said:


> The taxi driver knocked off the cyclist - you seem to think that is alright?


show me where I say that anywhere in this thread.


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## Milkfloat (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> show me where I say that anywhere in this thread.



It is the vehement defence of the driver that gave that impression.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

ianrauk said:


> He's supposedly a professional driver with a duty of care to other road user's and passengers. It was pure vindictiveness that he knocked droid over. I'm not saying that droid wasn't at fault and I agree he does escalate situations however the taxi driver could have just stopped and given him an earful but no, he decided to use his car as a weapon and that is unforgivable.


I agree and said in my original post on this segment of the thread the driving was well below standard and should be looked at by the licensing authority. the driver is 100% at fault for sotw hitting the deck, but I still think, having just looked at the video a couple more times, that it is poor car control and poor positional sense as the driver is trying to give him the earful you suggest, you can hear something is being shouted on the video from inside the taxi.


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## Milkfloat (24 Aug 2015)

raleighnut said:


> It was a close pass but it wasn't all that close, pretty standard IMO, Dweeb decided to blow his horn and then undertook (still an illegal manouvere as far as I know) and 'ramped' the cabbies anger up further.
> Now where is that thread ignore button, cos I'm getting fed up with this argument and feel that they are both pillocks.



Or you can read it as: Cyclist uses horn to say 'I am here'. Cabbie slams on brakes and pulls in to intimidate cyclist. Cyclist filters past quite legally. Cabbie crashes into cyclist on purpose. It all depends on your point of view.


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## shouldbeinbed (24 Aug 2015)

Milkfloat said:


> It is the vehement defence of the driver that gave that impression.



I set my stall out on page 5

I quoted GW


Glow worm said:


> Christ- what a lunatic driver! Hopefully that will have been their final fare.



and replied



shouldbeinbed said:


> Yes. looks like the taxi driver took offence at the hooting and stopped for a chat, sotw rode on by, apparently not keen on explaining himself and *the driver came too close* to have round 2 of the conversation, its muffled but sounds like 'whats your problem'* as the taxi shoulder barges him off his bike. Poor car control I suspect rather than a deliberate attack, but either way, I wouldn't want to be in or near that cab.
> 
> From what the vid shows the first pass was too close and deserves looking at by the licensing authority, but cyclist with an agenda coming tooled up to fight a ton and a half of vehicle with an airzound is only going to have one winner when (not if) they meet mr angry. *
> 
> I suspect if sotw reports it to the cops, the driver will have good grounds to claim provocation and the accident only happened because sotw didn't stop when it would have been easy to do so & driver felt forced into a risky manoeuvre by the cyclist hooting and then just riding on by when he'd stopped to ask if anything was wrong.



the underlined bit, we can all put our hands on: sun blinded me, they weren't wearing hi viz/helmet/had headphones in/jumped off the pavement, or just plain SMIDSY stories of drivers getting away with dreadful acts in cars against other vulnerable road users, just putting a pragmatic head on how the system seems to work now.

*thank god I'm not a defence barrister with that vehemence eh.*

Just because I try to take an impartial look at events and don't instantly join the hang, shoot & flog him gang, I'm vehemently defending a 100% pi$$ poor piece of driving??????

over and out.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I agree and said in my original post on this segment of the thread the driving was well below standard and should be looked at by the licensing authority. the driver is 100% at fault for sotw hitting the deck, but I still think, having just looked at the video a couple more times, that it is poor car control and poor positional sense as the driver is trying to give him the earful you suggest, you can hear something is being shouted on the video from inside the taxi.



The PCO do not deal with complaints of poor driving. However, if the cabbie was abusive, they might look into that aspect (but I would not expect much).


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## benborp (24 Aug 2015)

Milkfloat said:


> It all depends on your point of view.



My point of view is informed by years of experience of attempts being made to bully and intimidate me by other road users - unfortunately cabbies have presented me with numerous examples of very similar behaviour. The intentional close pass (and I mean putting themselves at some inconvenience to get themselves into position to commit it) followed by the intentional hit is not at all unusual. I have no doubt this driver's behaviour of bullying, intimidation and recklessness was intentional.


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2015)

shouldbeinbed said:


> I set my stall out on page 5
> 
> I quoted GW
> 
> ...



If you hadn't realised, an equally trenchant gang seem to want to "hang, shoot and flog" SOTW.

I don't think you are vehemently defending piss poor driving, but if you can't see that your posts are little ambiguous and pollyanna-like at times, you might want to consider your choice of words more carefully.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you have downgraded the driving from "poor" to a "100% pi$$ poor".


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