# 24 hours in London - now I know why cyclists are so hated!



## Globalti (10 Jul 2013)

I went to London last weekend to see The Stones. As a cyclist I am always interested to see what others are doing and riding and in the 24 hours I was there I saw countless cyclists breaking the law by riding on pavements, jumping lights and going the wrong way. Then coming out of Hyde Park late at night, 65,000 people flooded into Park Lane so the Police had the road closed for obvious reasons. What do I see? A muppet on a road bike weaving up Park Lane, fast, swerving around groups of concert-goers and screaming abuse at anybody who he thought was impeding his journey. Soon after that a bloke on a commuter bike shot past me as I crossed a road, so close that I felt his breeze... no lights, no bell, no warning, just a deliberate "punishment pass". 

Shocking altogether. I'm a cyclist but after all that I understand the cyclist-haters, some of you down there ride as if you own the place and the rules don't apply to you.


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## GrasB (10 Jul 2013)

For every cyclist do something wrong I see a pedestrian or motorist do something equally stupid! So why the lack of ped or motorist hate?


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## dan_bo (10 Jul 2013)

GrasB said:


> For every cyclist do something wrong I see a pedestrian or motorist do something equally stupid! So why the lack of ped or motorist hate?


 

Cars tend not to bunnyhop onto pavements mind. Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


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## rb58 (10 Jul 2013)

Last night was my worst London commute for ages in terms of bad cyclists. I saw it all - RLJs, pavement jockeys (including at speed to get round buses), undertaking (bikes, cars, buses.), shoaling. And not always newbies in trainers, but several roadies who should have known better. In fact, I felt more at risk from other cyclists than the motorists - one guy (with headphones) squeezed _between_ me and another cyclist whilst a car was overtaking and nearly took all three of us out. And they far outnumbered the bad drivers and peds. No wonder drivers get wound up.


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## GrasB (10 Jul 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Cars tend not to bunnyhop onto pavements mind. Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


Where I lived previously I was frequently presented with cars coming towards me with two wheels on the pavement & about 9" between a wall/hedge & their wing mirror...


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## dan_bo (10 Jul 2013)

GrasB said:


> Where I lived previously I was frequently presented with cars coming towards me with two wheels on the pavement & about 9" between a wall/hedge & their wing mirror...


 
Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


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## Markymark (10 Jul 2013)

I think I am more at risk in central London, coming off due to a collision with another cyclist either switching lanes without looking, RLJ, turning without warning, undertaking, dangerous jostling at light-changes etc etc

My worry is that when this is surrounded by cars, coming off could end up with me falling in the path of a car.


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## rb58 (10 Jul 2013)

Leodis said:


> If it is safer for a cyclist to use a pavement I see no harm.
> Safer for who?
> Not sure what you are moaning about with undertaking by cyclists or are you moaning about cyclists using the pavement to undertake?
> What do you need to be a Pro or a proper cyclist to wear SPD's?


Certainly not safer for the pedestrians they were weaving between - this was at high speed. Or should we only be concerned with the safety of other cyclists?
I'm moaning about other cyclists passing me on the inside. If you want to overtake me, then please do so on the right hand side, which is where I would expect you to be and be looking out for you. 
I'm simply pointing out that there are a great many new cyclists in London (which is great). They tend to be on new bikes and not to be wearing cycling shoes (I generalize obviously) and I tend to be less critical of these folks as they're still learning their cycle craft.


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## StuartG (10 Jul 2013)

Walking, riding or indeed driving in London is not like other UK cities. It has more in common with Paris or New York. That can be alarming at first sight but you soon adapt and revert to the mean.

I, in return, get very frustrated walking in Birmingham where everyone is so slow, don't keep to the right on escalators and tut-tut as you try and squeeze by ... as for cycling - well London is a paradise in comparison.


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## rb58 (10 Jul 2013)

0-markymark-0 said:


> I think I am more at risk in central London, coming off due to a collision with another cyclist either switching lanes without looking, RLJ, turning without warning, undertaking, dangerous jostling at light-changes etc etc
> 
> My worry is that when this is surrounded by cars, coming off could end up with me falling in the path of a car.


This is my concern too.


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## Leodis (10 Jul 2013)

It was busy for me this morning, I spotted about 10 cyclists and me and another lady cycled together.



> Shocking altogether. I'm a cyclist but after all that I understand the cyclist-haters, some of you down there ride as if you own the place and the rules don't apply to you.


 
Divide and conquer


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## BentMikey (10 Jul 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Cars tend not to bunnyhop onto pavements mind. Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


 

Something like 700 people KSI'd on the pavement by drivers annually in the UK. I'm forever having drivers bump up onto the pavement to park near me, so no, you'd be wrong.


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## dan_bo (10 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> Something like 700 people KSI'd on the pavement by drivers annually in the UK. I'm forever having drivers bump up onto the pavement to park near me, so no, you'd be wrong.


 

Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.

Really. Including me. And 3BMcG.


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## Leodis (10 Jul 2013)

rb58 said:


> Certainly not safer for the pedestrians they were weaving between - this was at high speed. Or should we only be concerned with the safety of other cyclists?
> I'm moaning about other cyclists passing me on the inside. If you want to overtake me, then please do so on the right hand side, which is where I would expect you to be and be looking out for you.
> I'm simply pointing out that there are a great many new cyclists in London (which is great). They tend to be on new bikes and not to be wearing cycling shoes (I generalize obviously) and I tend to be less critical of these folks as they're still learning their cycle craft.


 

Thanks for that, I must buy some cycling shoes to look the part


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## Glow worm (10 Jul 2013)

Leodis said:


> Thanks for that, I must buy some cycling shoes to look the part


 
Ha ha! I've been cycling for 25 years or so and never been near a cycling shoe and hope I never will. In fact I'm about to go for a short lunch time ride in flip flops.


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## Globalti (10 Jul 2013)

What was remarkable for me as a cyclist coming from laid-back rural Lancashire was the aggression of the cyclists I saw - there really was a strong sense that they saw themselves as part of a war of attrition against drivers and pedestrians. Quite apart from anything else they were bad mannered and selfish and not behaving in a way conducive to happy co-existance in a crowded city.


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## glenn forger (10 Jul 2013)

How many bad cyclists were seen by the OP? He says "countless", then two actual incidents of cyclists being silly. It's a rather small sample.


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## snorri (10 Jul 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


 You calling me a tosser?


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## Globalti (10 Jul 2013)

Countless because I lost count of the idiots I saw.


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## Domeo (10 Jul 2013)

I commute every day from North East London into the City and I've got to say that the OP is correct in his observations. The majority of those that I see have no regard for the rules of the road or the safety and consideration of others. I'm glad that riders from other parts of town ride amongst the enlightened.


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## J.Primus (10 Jul 2013)

Globalti said:


> What was remarkable for me as a cyclist coming from laid-back rural Lancashire was the aggression of the cyclists I saw - there really was a strong sense that they saw themselves as part of a war of attrition against drivers and pedestrians. Quite apart from anything else they were bad mannered and selfish and not behaving in a way conducive to happy co-existance in a crowded city.


As someone who lived in Lancashire for 20 years time before moving to London hopefully I can provide a bit of insight into the difference. Essentially I don't recall ever having cars try and run me off the roads or peds stepping out in front of you constantly when I lived in Blackpool so I could have a nice relaxed riding style and it wasn't a problem. Unfortunately if you are not assertive on the roads in London you will not get anywhere or otherwise you'll just have to put up with other road users taking the mickey constantly.
It's the same as a motorist. I used to attempt to wait for gaps in traffic or assume someone will let you in but you'll be waiting all day the only way to get anywhere is to go for it and force other cars to let you in.
Essentially the base level of rudeness is massively higher than nearly other place I've ever lived in and if you attempt to cycle/drive like you would anywhere else you will get nowhere.
So you are half right, cyclists do appear worse than other places but so is just about everyone else so no idea why you would just single out cyclists.


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## morrisman (10 Jul 2013)

J.Primus said:


> As someone who lived in Lancashire for 20 years time before moving to London hopefully I can provide a bit of insight into the difference. Essentially I don't recall ever having cars try and run me off the roads or peds stepping out in front of you constantly when I lived in Blackpool so I could have a nice relaxed riding style and it wasn't a problem. Unfortunately if you are not assertive on the roads in London you will not get anywhere or otherwise you'll just have to put up with other road users taking the mickey constantly.
> It's the same as a motorist. I used to attempt to wait for gaps in traffic or assume someone will let you in but you'll be waiting all day the only way to get anywhere is to go for it and force other cars to let you in.
> Essentially the base level of rudeness is massively higher than nearly other place I've ever lived in and if you attempt to cycle/drive like you would anywhere else you will get nowhere.
> So you are half right, cyclists do appear worse than other places but so is just about everyone else so no idea why you would just single out cyclists.


 
Spot on, as a West London driver/cyclist of many years before moving to leafy Bucks I really could not understand why people here dither all the time at junctions etc.


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## Pieface (10 Jul 2013)

Should see people on bikes around Chester. Constantly going down one ways or riding on the pavements at a good speed (As it's a relatively historic city these pavements are mostly narrow). I rarely see a cyclist follow the law (Heck today I saw a girl riding on a busy road, approach the lights and just hop on the pavement to get around it and nearly knock someone over).

Luckily I live out in the country and not in Chester anymore.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2541627, member: 1314"]Scariest thing on the commute is me:[/quote]
What is with the brake levers angled up at the sky? Is it the latest hipster trend?


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## J.Primus (10 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> What is with the brake levers angled up at the sky? Is it the latest hipster trend?


Only if they're angled "ironically"


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## Bodhbh (10 Jul 2013)

It is a bit of a madhouse. My only London cycling is going between train stations every few weeks, but I generally see something nuts. Monday I was walking down Oxford Street. I had to laugh at some bare chested guy trying to jog down it at rush hour - why they hell would you choose to jog down Oxford Street?! If that wasn't enough, within a minute some numpty comes along riding down the pavement on a Boris Bike, slowly picking his way thru the peds.  Have to say I always enjoy the ride thru central London tho.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2541840, member: 1314"]Just got back from a pub lunch in a *very* busy part of that there EC1. Cars, vans, black cabs all over the place as we walked there and back. Running zebras, pulling over without indicating, mobile phones glued to their ears.

ANNNNNNND *we’re coming to a nice rural town near YOU!*
[/quote]
You riding to Felpham then?

The riding standards amongst the MAMIL/weekend warrior/ride home from the station classes in the 'Sham have gone severely downhill in recent years. So many of them commute by train to work in London and then they re-enact what they see on the mean streets there down here. I much preferred the maiden aunts and girls in floaty dresses wafting by on their Pashleys, and the ninja yoof on his BMX to them. I've even seen two other fixed gear bikes about the town one complete with cardigan skinny jeans and ironically rolled up trouser leg.

It will not do.


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## LarryDuff (10 Jul 2013)

Globalti said:


> What was remarkable for me as a cyclist coming from laid-back rural Lancashire was the aggression of the cyclists I saw - there really was a strong sense that they saw themselves as part of a war of attrition against drivers and pedestrians. Quite apart from anything else they were bad mannered and selfish and not behaving in a way conducive to happy co-existance in a crowded city.


 
Is not that the way most big city dwellers act, no matter what mode of transport they use?


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2542014, member: 1314"]I can’t. Looking after kids on that Friday as wife’s away. And it’s tt’s birthday party on Saturday after. 

I’m planning to be on Banjo’s Welsh ride up some Devil’s Shoulder sometime in September, though. You should come! Pubrunner’s offered to *put everyone up in Oswestry. *[/quote]
that has to be a euphemism.


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## Dan B (10 Jul 2013)

Globalti said:


> some of you down there ride as if you own the place


I do own the place


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## ianrauk (10 Jul 2013)

@User1314 You are King of the Road bud... pure King of the Road.


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## Sara_H (10 Jul 2013)

Globalti said:


> I went to London last weekend to see The Stones. As a cyclist I am always interested to see what others are doing and riding and in the 24 hours I was there I saw countless cyclists breaking the law by riding on pavements, jumping lights and going the wrong way. Then coming out of Hyde Park late at night, 65,000 people flooded into Park Lane so the Police had the road closed for obvious reasons. What do I see? A muppet on a road bike weaving up Park Lane, fast, swerving around groups of concert-goers and screaming abuse at anybody who he thought was impeding his journey. Soon after that a bloke on a commuter bike shot past me as I crossed a road, so close that I felt his breeze... no lights, no bell, no warning, just a deliberate "punishment pass".
> 
> Shocking altogether. I'm a cyclist but after all that I understand the cyclist-haters, some of you down there ride as if you own the place and the rules don't apply to you.


 
I don't think thats just cyclists, I think thats people in general in London. I felt the same on my recent trip to New York - full of inconsiderate, agressive, nasty, stupid, horrible people.

I wouldn't last 5 minutes in either city - not tough enough.


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## subaqua (10 Jul 2013)

Domeo said:


> I commute every day from North East London into the City and I've got to say that the OP is correct in his observations. The majority of those that I see have no regard for the rules of the road or the safety and consideration of others. I'm glad that riders from other parts of town ride amongst the enlightened.


 what time do you travel? there are the odd one or two, out of the 30 -40 cyclists i see everyday, who ride like numpties . most are well behaved tho.


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## mark st1 (10 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2541651, member: 1314"]Cycling home last Tuesday evening about 7-ish, approaching Seven Dials. Stressful innit - I mean look at all those errant cyclists. Seven Dials is one of the busiest parts of London btw. It's also the most haunted. whoooohhhhh!!!

View attachment 25988
[/quote]


That pigeon looks like he could get a bit punchy if it kicks off.


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## ianrauk (10 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2542406, member: 30090"]Go COG. And isn't something happening in a few weeks that you have not mentioned at all?[/quote]



And bloody hope you going to make an appearance.


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## Lee_M (10 Jul 2013)

Pieface said:


> Should see people on bikes around Chester. Constantly going down one ways or riding on the pavements at a good speed (As it's a relatively historic city these pavements are mostly narrow). I rarely see a cyclist follow the law (Heck today I saw a girl riding on a busy road, approach the lights and just hop on the pavement to get around it and nearly knock someone over).
> 
> Luckily I live out in the country and not in Chester anymore.


 

I was in Chester a couple of weeks ago and by the end of the weekend I wanted to kill someone, they dither about in their cars, don't make decisions until they've stopped at a junction, had a cup of tea and a bit of a chat. Blooming drove me mad


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## subaqua (11 Jul 2013)

Lee_M said:


> I was in Chester a couple of weeks ago and by the end of the weekend I wanted to kill someone, they dither about in their cars, don't make decisions until they've stopped at a junction, had a cup of tea and a bit of a chat. Blooming drove me mad


 Its like that just over the border too.


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## classic33 (11 Jul 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I don't think thats just cyclists, I think thats people in general in London. I felt the same on my recent trip to New York - full of inconsiderate, agressive, nasty, stupid, horrible people.
> 
> I wouldn't last 5 minutes in either city - not tough enough.


I don't believe it was you there.



subaqua said:


> Its like that just over the border too.


In Wales. You certain on that.


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## Lee_M (11 Jul 2013)

classic33 said:


> I don't believe it was you there.
> 
> In Wales. You certain on that.



hope not, im moving there!


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## Domeo (11 Jul 2013)

subaqua said:


> what time do you travel? there are the odd one or two, out of the 30 -40 cyclists i see everyday, who ride like numpties . most are well behaved tho.


 
I drop my daughter off at school for 10 to 9 and get into work at 9:40ish. Homeward is just after 6:00. The level of numpties, however, is not restrict to a single route or area, although vastly multiplied along the A10. Virtually every set of lights has rlj's.


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Jul 2013)

Actually. The problem with London, as demonstrated by CoG pictures, is

"There are too many bicycle people on the road"

Or so a wise person once said, allegedly.


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## subaqua (11 Jul 2013)

classic33 said:


> I don't believe it was you there.
> 
> In Wales. You certain on that.


 Yes, I grew up in N Wales and saw lots of numpties on bikes ( and in Cars, Vans , buses etc) I never felt the need to video themn tho, mainly because Video Cameras were the size of a house when i was growing up.


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## Davidsw8 (11 Jul 2013)

I think one added dangerous element in London that other places in the UK doesn't have, is the Boris bikes. They are such a hazard, to me anyway, the people that ride them tend to be very unsure/nervous which is compounded by the bikes themselves being very heavy and difficult to handle.

I tried to overtake a VERY slow chap in a suit on a Boris bike this morning, when I could eventually get past, a cabby cut in to the cycle lane and blocked me off so I had to remain behind. He was almost going so slow as to be stationary!

I also think the black cabs having their indicator lights disabled causes a lot of problems!


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## Boris Bajic (11 Jul 2013)

Cycling in London and cycling in the Sticks are comparable in the way that Cod & Chips might be compared with a fillet of sole.

Both are excellent, but in different ways.

I am a town mouse who became a country mouse. I was cycling to school along Stamford Street (SE1) when I was eleven or twelve. I rode with verve and abandon on the street of London for many years before the arrival of young mouths made me move west.

I still ride in London quite frequently and I still love it. Out here in the Marches there is nothing like the Rollerball rush I can get from Hyde park Corner.

But London gives me nothing like the buzz I get from the rolling hills around Hereford or the buzz of descending at speed in the Malverns or the Beacons.

The Sticks cannot provide the terror of the old Old Street roundabout at speed and London cannot provide the fear of the wheelnuts of an artic inches from my elbow at 55mph.

I love both. "_Vive la difference"_, whatever that means....


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## HLaB (11 Jul 2013)

Only ever been a ped in London but I suspect it won't be much worse than anywhere else percentage wise when it comes to rlj/pavement cyclists etc but the population density will make it seem far more


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## Cyclopathic (11 Jul 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Let's face it- everyone's a tosser.


 Not me. I'm lovely.


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## dan_bo (11 Jul 2013)

Cyclopathic said:


> Not me. I'm lovely.



Apart from cyclopathic. He'/she's just a *****.


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## campbellab (11 Jul 2013)

Just got back from working in London and tbh they're/you're all buggers but other peds (as a ped) are the worst and should all be shot. Ignorant sods!

I'm quite ok with being snuggled up to everyone on the tube but why do people leave less than a person's width to get off by crowding the sides?
Why do peds decide to overtake when theres not enough room for 2 abreast and people coming the other way?
Walk infront of traffic mindlessly.
Overtaking then getting your phone out to text...

It was nice to see so many people on their bikes, but I had a few cringes as people are far too keen to filter up the inside rather than up the outside.


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## Frood42 (12 Jul 2013)

campbellab said:


> Just got back from working in London and tbh they're/you're all buggers but other peds (as a ped) are the worst and should all be shot. Ignorant sods!


 
Walking along Oxford Street on a Saturday is a nightmare, hate it, especially in the warmer weather.
So many ignorant people who don't look where they are going, and don't get me started on those rude people on their mobiles, argh!!

I would hate to ride a bike or drive a bus round there, if I am on the bike I avoid that area like the plague.

Although it is nice to walk down there when they close Oxford Street to all traffic at Xmas.


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## PaulSB (12 Jul 2013)

Globalti said:


> What was remarkable for me as a cyclist coming from laid-back rural Lancashire was the aggression of the cyclists I saw - there really was a strong sense that they saw themselves as part of a war of attrition against drivers and pedestrians. Quite apart from anything else they were bad mannered and selfish and not behaving in a way conducive to happy co-existance in a crowded city.



As another from rural Lancashire I had precisely the same experience as yourself during two recent London visits. I tried making some points about it only to be told I was "part of the problem" in relation to how cyclists are viewed by drivers. Quite astonished by that and gave up on the discussion. 

I think one just has to accept it's city living. I've seen some pretty poor riding in Manchester and recently rode with a guy from Newcastle who did stuff I wouldn't dream of. 

The point about the need to be assertive I can appreciate but it doesn't explain why I saw so much very poor cycling behaviour in London at 10.00 on a sunny Sunday morning!


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## BentMikey (13 Jul 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> I think one added dangerous element in London that other places in the UK doesn't have, is the Boris bikes. They are such a hazard, to me anyway, the people that ride them tend to be very unsure/nervous which is compounded by the bikes themselves being very heavy and difficult to handle.


 
Boris bikes are heavy, sure, but they're actually very easy to handle. They, and their riders, aren't hazards at all, unless you're impatient and want to pass too closely, like some of the drivers we like to complain about.

A bit wobbly gave you a fright? You rode too close to them is all. I want more wobbly people on the roads, they help to train drivers to give us all more room. Lovely!


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## Kies (13 Jul 2013)

Wobbly tourists not sure which way they want to go at interections are great. Cars slow down, see the hazard and give the tourists SPACE! 
Boris bikes have changed London for the better imo.


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Jul 2013)

Hell is other people.

Good job we are all perfect eh?


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## Kies (13 Jul 2013)

Practice makes perfect ;-)


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## Davidsw8 (16 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> Boris bikes are heavy, sure, but they're actually very easy to handle. They, and their riders, aren't hazards at all, unless you're impatient and want to pass too closely, like some of the drivers we like to complain about.
> 
> A bit wobbly gave you a fright? You rode too close to them is all. I want more wobbly people on the roads, they help to train drivers to give us all more room. Lovely!


 
Hi Mikey

I don't think I said I had a fright... I think if I was being inconsiderate and impatient, I would have just overtaken him and not backed off like I did. A lot of these Boris bikers do take their time moving off from stationary at red lights, then they'll stop suddenly cos the bike is too heavy - it's a bit dangerous when you're behind them and you've got a bus breathing down your neck not expecting you to stop. Then there's the tourists who cycle the wrong way up Whitehall towards you cos they don't know we drive on the left....

I made a couple of journeys on these bikes when they first came out and I wouldn't use them again - besides the issue of finding a docking space at the other end - they're just so badly designed (I appreciate they're made heavy and unattractive to make people not want to nick them ).


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## Davidsw8 (16 Jul 2013)

Kies said:


> Wobbly tourists not sure which way they want to go at interections are great. Cars slow down, see the hazard and give the tourists SPACE!
> Boris bikes have changed London for the better imo.


 
Cars slow down and give the tourists space?


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## Davidsw8 (16 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2550283, member: 1314"]Yeah, sure the BB-ers are a bit slow and clumsy at times but I’ve never felt they put me at risk. And I’ve never seen one go the wrong way on a road though I’ll take your word for it. BB-ers are the least of my concerns on the roads. Just give them a wide berth.

Let’s put this into context – I can’t think of one KSI where a BB has been at fault (that death the other week not withstanding as the facts aren’t out).[/quote]


I agree, they are fairly low down on the list of dangers and hindrances


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## BentMikey (16 Jul 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> I agree, they are fairly low down on the list of dangers and hindrances


 


No mate, they are neither a danger nor a hindrance by comparison with almost everything else on the roads. They are in fact a huge boon to us cyclists.


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## Davidsw8 (16 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> No mate, they are neither a danger nor a hindrance by comparison with almost everything else on the roads. They are in fact a huge boon to us cyclists.


 
It wouldn't do for us all to agree on everything eh?


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## Frood42 (16 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> No mate, they are neither a danger nor a hindrance by comparison with almost everything else on the roads. They are in fact a huge boon to us cyclists.


 
I would have to agree with BentMikey, in that they are a boon.

My view is:
You have 'normal people' or tourists riding or bimbling around in normal clothing, and wearing no helmets, it's great to see!
It can only help to turn the view of cycling, of an activity that rather than being for those in Lycra is a fun activity for all.

Not to say I have a problem with cyclists in Lycra, but for a majority of 'normal people' that is not what the image should be, instead the image should be of a fun and relaxed activity that is away from the normal rat race in London.

All that bimbling around also means that drivers should become more aware and take extra care around bikes, and if you have enough people doing it then it also forces the local authority, TFL and the Government to take notice and provide provision.


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## Davidsw8 (16 Jul 2013)

Frood42 said:


> I would have to agree with BentMikey, in that they are a boon.
> 
> My view is:
> You have 'normal people' or tourists riding or bimbling around in normal clothing, and wearing no helmets, it's great to see!
> ...


 

On a Sunday afternoon, I'd be in agreement with you guys. In rush hour on a Monday morning, no - but that's just my opinion obviously


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## Frood42 (16 Jul 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> On a Sunday afternoon, I'd be in agreement with you guys. In rush hour on a Monday morning, no - but that's just my opinion obviously


 


I understand, I myself have been annoyed at slow moving boris bikes, especially those in office suits  , but then I remind myself to just enjoy the ride and that a scalp is a scalp  (what, I need all the help I can get!)


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## Kookas (16 Jul 2013)

I can only dream of other bikes everywhere. We have a few more now that it's sunny, but it's not like London, where you'll see at least five on any given road. Who cares if they're slow - it's much more relaxing to ride in the presence of other cyclists, and if you want, you can use them as an excuse for a break.


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## fabregas485 (16 Jul 2013)

In some cases cyclist are better off on the pavement. If they do get onto the pavement, remember to dismount etc. I do not get where the idea came from that cyclist can pass red lights, but I see it quite a lot and it is annoying. It gives other cyclist a bad image as well as putting the persons life at risk.


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## rb58 (16 Jul 2013)

Frood42 said:


> I understand, I myself have been annoyed at slow moving boris bikes, especially those in office suits  , but then I remind myself to just enjoy the ride and that a scalp is a scalp  (what, I need all the help I can get!)


I often use a Boris bike to get around London. They're my transport of choice after I have showered and changed out of my commute Lycra. And I wear a suit. They are ace bikes and I think are very stately and calming and most people riding them have a smile on their face. I would buy one as my hack bike if I had a chance.


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## Frood42 (17 Jul 2013)

rb58 said:


> I often use a Boris bike to get around London. They're my transport of choice after I have showered and changed out of my commute Lycra. And I wear a suit. They are ace bikes and I think are very stately and calming and most people riding them have a smile on their face. I would buy one as my hack bike if I had a chance.


 
Agreed, when I started to get back on a bike (I think ~10-12months ago), I started out by hiring boris bikes in the morning and evenings, but I sweat far too easily to wear shirt and trousers! 

Instead it was t-shirt and shorts, or t-shirt and tracksuit bottoms, and no helmet.
It was interesting riding from Holborn to Bow, part of it along the CS2 on the boris bikes, although sometimes when I first started it was a little scary in places.


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## User169 (17 Jul 2013)

Just got back from couple of days in That London you all like so much. 

Lots of cyclists out and about - I guess the hot weather helps - and plenty of BBs in action. Didn't really notice any mass disobedience - if anything it all looked a bit better behaved than when I commuted there. Exhibition Road's interesting these days!


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## Domeo (18 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2552855, member: 1314"] The miserable OP is rather hysterical and spiteful and I think symptomatic of imposed personal issues. .[/quote]

How is the OP hysterical and spiteful for pointing out his observations? I ride into the City every day and would agree with him.


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## Primal Scream (18 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2552855, member: 1314"]You went to that there London and never told us! The miserable OP is rather hysterical and spiteful and I think symptomatic of imposed personal issues. He comes to London and moans. We get 2,500 cyclists out on a protest at a day's notice.[/quote]
The 2,500 cyclists is a great response however that does not negate the original post. I travel all over North and East London and some of the cycling is pig ignorant and often bloody dangerous. 

RLJ is endemic in this general area, one tosser nearly had me over as I had the cheek to try and walk across a pedestrian crossing on a "green man" and got told to get out of the F****** way, anecdotal yes but there are myriad examples of this every day in London.

There are quite obviously good riders (me for one ) but are large minority are twats, same with drivers (except black cab drivers who are all w@nkers) and pedestrians

I say this as someone who was born in London and has lived in London all his life.


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## Primal Scream (18 Jul 2013)

Was "hate" used in it's strongest form, I would say I "hate" certain customers but what I really mean is I dont much like them really. It's like saying drop dead, I doubt anyone would be pleased if the object of the remark did.

I was going to have the brass neck to turn up at your curry night uninvited  but I have booked a late holiday in Italy.


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## Davidsw8 (19 Jul 2013)

Last night about 10.30, I was on the bus coming north on the Old Kent Road and saw a chap run a red whilst turning left onto the OKR in front of the bus, of course the idiot had no lights on but what made this worse was that the car stopped at the red he jumped was a police car and they did absolutely nothing, not even a toot of the siren or a yell out the window.

Then a few days ago, Horse Guards Road was closed to all traffic, cyclists were only allowed through on foot and I heard the police at both ends informing us of this. It didn't stop more than half a dozen cyclists getting on their bikes right after the police and continue cycling. I heard some police shout at cyclists mid-way along and most had to get off and walk.

Some people do whatever they feel like because they know there are no real punitive consequences and safety-wise, they think they're immune. Unfortunately, these 'some' feel like 'most' even though rationally, I know this can't be true.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Jul 2013)

Why are central London riders on their own bikes so ruddy po-faced* these days? They look like they are being forced to cycle as part of some community service order. Froome looked happier on the second climb up Alpe D'Huez!

I'd blame thatcher the hot weather but every time I've been up this year they've been the same.

*With the exception of CoG who rides with an expression of gritty determination. And Adrian who always has an arched eyebrow and an impish grin.


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## snorri (20 Jul 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> . In rush hour on a Monday morning,


Is it not unreasonable for travellers to expect to be able to "rush" during peak traffic hour?


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## Boris Bajic (20 Jul 2013)

Kies said:


> Wobbly tourists not sure which way they want to go at interections are great. Cars slow down, see the hazard and give the tourists SPACE!
> Boris bikes have changed London for the better imo.


 
I always ride a Boris Bike when I'm in London. I usually take them there in the boot of my car or on a First Great Western train.

I do not find them wobbly or heavy. In fact some of them are deliciously light and flickable.

I confess that they have been involved in several accidents and that some of those were caused by the idiot on the pedals.

Nonetheless, I think it unfair to blame everything in London on the Boris Bike. These days, I'm hardly ever there!


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## Kies (21 Jul 2013)

I wasn't slating the bikes, I think they are OK actually. It's usually the riders not being sure of which way to go and thus wobbling around.


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## srw (21 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Why are central London riders on their own bikes so ruddy po-faced* these days?


Because they're _serious_ cyclists. And pissed off that the traffic lights mean that they can't get a real jump on the rest of us. A few days ago I overtook a fixie MAMIL away from the lights at Bank. And at St Pauls. And at Holborn Circus. He finally got away from me at Chancery Lane. Boy, was he serious.

(The summer seems to have brought out the MAMIL brigade - who _are_ mostly male, but can be of any age. In the poorer weather there were many fewer of them, and much more than a sprinkling of Joe and Jane Bloggses, wearing ordinary clothes and pootling - usually not much slower than the MAMILs.)


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## BentMikey (22 Jul 2013)

Primal Scream said:


> There are quite obviously good riders (me for one ) but are large minority are twats, same with drivers (except black cab drivers who are all w@nkers) and pedestrians


 

*Cough* Bullsh1t. This post says most about your own attitudes. I find the vast majority of road users to be generally lovely. A few are a little too impatient, and a small minority behave badly.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> *Cough* Bullsh1t. This post says most about your own attitudes. I find the vast majority of road users to be generally lovely. A few are a little too impatient, and a *small minority behave badly.*


Yebbut were that true then it would be something like a hideous pustule on the face of a well loved and attractive friend. The only thing you see is the spot. The tiny minority behave in such an egregiously endangering manner, and the consequence of their behaviour as potentially so catastrophic, that all most of us care about, and notice, are the wrong 'uns who stick out like sore thumbs.

My experience (albeit largely gained outside large urban centres) is that the majority of drivers are, frankly, just a little bit rubbish at driving, particularly rubbish at driving near cyclists, a little bit impatient when driving, and highly impatient when 'delayed' by cyclists. They drive in a manner which is mainly unconsidered and are triggered into ill-considered decisions by any deviation from the norm, or their expectation of what the norm should be. And the vast majority are happy to take risks with my safety for their convenience. The lovelies are present in the general road user population in about equal proportion to the outright ejits but the bell curve in the middle are plain mediocre and inconsiderate.

(IAM on two- and four- wheels, and I still make mistakes that endanger myself and others when driving)


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## Dan B (22 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> *Cough* Bullsh1t. This post says most about your own attitudes. I find the vast majority of road users to be generally lovely. A few are a little too impatient, and a small minority behave badly.


The difficulty is that when using the road without a protective safety cage you pretty much have to assume that everyone else out there is part of that small minority until they demonstrate otherwise, because the risk of a false negative is so much greater than a false positive. And this itself tends to engenders defensive (maybe 'hostile' is a better word) riding so the vicious cycle repeats


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

srw said:


> Because they're _serious_ cyclists. And ****ed off that the traffic lights mean that they can't get a real jump on the rest of us. A few days ago I overtook a fixie MAMIL away from the lights at Bank. And at St Pauls. And at Holborn Circus. He finally got away from me at Chancery Lane. Boy, was he serious.
> 
> (The summer seems to have brought out the MAMIL brigade - who _are_ mostly male, but can be of any age. In the poorer weather there were many fewer of them, and much more than a sprinkling of Joe and Jane Bloggses, wearing ordinary clothes and pootling - usually not much slower than the MAMILs.)


Aha. I see. I was mistaking their seriousness for them being po-faced. It all makes sense now. It's all intense and purposeful, and big gears and straining sinews and off to do important things. Now it makes sense. They are on a mission whilst I am merely on a bummel.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

Dan B said:


> The difficulty is that when using the road without a protective safety cage you pretty much have to assume that everyone else out there is part of that small minority until they demonstrate otherwise, because the risk of a false negative is so much greater than a false positive. *And this itself tends to engenders defensive (maybe 'hostile' is a better word) riding so the vicious cycle repeats*


I prefer assertive. The trouble is that most folk can't deal with assertiveness. Especially not when they have a sense of entitlement.


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## Dan B (22 Jul 2013)

I also would prefer assertive. But it's very difficult to convey 'I have priority along here but am slowing to let you out because I want us both to be happy' in a way that isn't misinterpreted by the badly behaving minority as 'I cower before the might and authority of your Road Tax disc and tinted windows, please take your rightful place ahead of lowly me in the traffic', which makes it too easy to fall into a 'give no quarter' mindset. 

I was out on Saturday with child in the trailer (the first time I've ridden with it) and despite pulling over at pretty much every available opportunity to let following cars past I got an attempted close pass from a cabbie who couldn't be arsed to wait the fifty feet distance until the line of parked cars on the left hand side ended. Next time I use that contraption I think I shall be swapping the fluttery pennant thing for a garden rake at a rakish angle.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

Dan B said:


> I also would prefer assertive. But it's very difficult to convey 'I have priority along here but am slowing to let you out because I want us both to be happy' in a way that isn't misinterpreted by the badly behaving minority as 'I cower before the might and authority of your Road Tax disc and tinted windows, please take your rightful place ahead of lowly me in the traffic', which makes it too easy to fall into a 'give no quarter' mindset.
> 
> I was out on Saturday with child in the trailer (the first time I've ridden with it) and despite pulling over at pretty much every available opportunity to let following cars past I got an attempted close pass from a cabbie who couldn't be arsed to wait the fifty feet distance until the line of parked cars on the left hand side ended. Next time I use that contraption I think I shall be swapping the fluttery pennant thing for a garden rake at a rakish angle.


I want an automatic repeater CO2 powered paintball gun, with a remote trigger unit, mounted on my rear rack... a sort of Schräge Musik for cyclists.


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## gaz (22 Jul 2013)

Primal Scream said:


> There are quite obviously good riders (me for one ) but are l*arge minority* are twats, same with drivers (except black cab drivers who are all w@nkers) and pedestrians


Large minority?


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## gaz (22 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2560138, member: 1314"]and @ttcycle who rides with an expression of zen pacificity; @ianrauk who rides with a haughty aloofness; @Mice who rides with bags of mustard a Chelsea chicness; @Sittingduck who does actually now actually ride like Froome; and @gaz who rides like a TV Licence Van.[/quote]
lol wtf?


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## Sittingduck (22 Jul 2013)




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## ttcycle (22 Jul 2013)

User you sod...


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## ianrauk (22 Jul 2013)




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## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2560138, member: 1314"]and @ttcycle who rides with an expression of zen pacificity; @ianrauk who rides with a haughty aloofness; @Mice who rides with bags of mustard a Chelsea chicness; @Sittingduck who does actually now actually ride like Froome; and @gaz who rides like a TV Licence Van.[/quote]
I'm feeling extremely hurt.


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## BentMikey (22 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> I'm feeling extremely hurt.


 

Even me!!

I'm more chilled out and laid back than a deckchair, mostly.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

martint235 said:


> I'm feeling extremely hurt.


you ride with an annoying click. Or was it clique?


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2560138, member: 1314"]and @ttcycle who rides with an expression of zen pacificity; @ianrauk who rides with a haughty aloofness; @Mice who rides with bags of mustard a Chelsea chicness; @Sittingduck who does actually now actually ride like Froome; and @gaz who rides like a TV Licence Van.[/quote]
Nurse, can I have the same meds as him please?


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## martint235 (22 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> you ride with an annoying click. Or was it clique?


 Oh I hate cliques even more than I hate clicks!!!


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## ttcycle (22 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> you ride with an annoying click. Or was it clique?


 

The one who rides with an annoyingly click is @User1314 

I told him it was his bottom bracket but it might just be him talking


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## Primal Scream (22 Jul 2013)

gaz said:


> Large minority?


Yes large minority as in aprox 4 out 10 Which could be described as a large minority.

This is based upon observations in the Hoxton, Shoreditch, Holloway Road, Islington area and mostly involves RLJ.


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## Primal Scream (22 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> *Cough* Bullsh1t. This post says most about your own attitudes. I find the vast majority of road users to be generally lovely. A few are a little too impatient, and a small minority behave badly.


 
Try the Hoxton, Shoreditch, Islington, Holloway Road area from about 7-30 and 9-30 am.

As for bulsh1t you may wish to check your personal hygiene if there is a lingering smell or maybe clean your teeth.


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## Boris Bajic (22 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> I want an automatic repeater CO2 powered paintball gun, with a remote trigger unit, mounted on my rear rack... a sort of Schräge Musik for cyclists.


 
You are the late Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer and I claim my five Reichsmarks.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> You are the late Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer and I claim my five Reichsmarks.








I remember seeing his ?tail fin? at the Imperial War Museum. So many 'kills' ... Just awful.


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## campbellab (22 Jul 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> You are the late Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer and I claim my five Reichsmarks.


 
I think that invokes Godwin's Law.


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## Markymark (22 Jul 2013)

It seems to me that Godwin's Law is mentioned more than the nazis in forums these days. Is that Hitler's Law?


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## BentMikey (22 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> I remember seeing his ?tail fin? at the Imperial War Museum. So many 'kills' ... Just awful.


 

If you want to examine your own bias, I simply can't imagine you saying that about any of the Allied aces.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Jul 2013)

BentMikey said:


> If you want to examine your own bias, I simply can't imagine you saying that about any of the Allied aces.


I think you need to reflect on your own bias. The limitations of your imagination are your own problem, not mine. I'd find the 'kill' score on an allied tail fin just as awful.


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## BentMikey (22 Jul 2013)

OK, well that's fair enough then.


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## Boris Bajic (22 Jul 2013)

campbellab said:


> I think that invokes Godwin's Law.


 
He was the one what mentioned Schrage Musik. That's your invocation.

I was just providing a name. And the name I mentioned was just a chap doing a job he'd been trained to do.

It's not as if I mentioned... well.... you know..... 

Anyway, it looks as though 'Greg Collins' has paid up. Which means he* is* that Johnny Kraut von Schutemdaun who I accused him of being.

And I think you'll agree that actually being a night-fighter ace of the Third Thingummy is a whole new chapter of Godwin's Law.

I rest.


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## ttcycle (23 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2560263, member: 1314"]sod![/quote]

Pleasure!


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## Rupie (24 Jul 2013)

Going back to the original Post, I too am not suprised as to why cyclists are hated in london. I have commuted in london, on a bike and have been embarrised and ashamed by not just by the way the odd cyclist behaves, but the majority. Sorry to say that fabout ellow cyclists. And you cant say other modes of transport are just as bad, because two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Kies (24 Jul 2013)

Most definitely not hated. I'm going into London shortly for a 2am call and I'm sure I will see stupid people ....

Walking
Driving
Cycling
Riding (motorbikes)


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## Feastie (24 Jul 2013)

People do cycle very badly in London. But not everybody. I don't see why people are having arguments about this! I regularly see people jump red lights, go up onto the pavements and so on - anecdotally, I've not written a paper about it or done traffic surveys, just seen them. There are a lot of cyclists in London, some of them cycle badly and it's not like seeing them is an infrequent occurrence. This cannot be denied. I often get 'over-taken' at lights by somebody who goes straight through where I stopped. Winds me up and I'm sure it winds up everybody else out there - pedestrians, taxi drivers, bus drivers, whoever.

That there are people who are bad at cycling/walking/driving/whatever is factual and they don't detract from each other. Crappy motorists don't stop crappy cyclists being a problem and, where they exist in large numbers e.g. London, it's more noticeable than outside of London where you have fewer cyclists and in much less trafficky situations.


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## Dan B (24 Jul 2013)

Feastie said:


> . I often get 'over-taken' at lights by somebody who goes straight through where I stopped. Winds me up and I'm sure it winds up everybody else out there


I get overtaken by them too but really I'm pretty relaxed about it. Why does it wind you up?


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## Feastie (24 Jul 2013)

Dan B said:


> I get overtaken by them too but really I'm pretty relaxed about it. Why does it wind you up?


Because I feel that people who do that are just giving extra ammunition to those who moan about cyclists and behave badly towards them? There's already enough anti-cyclist stuff, if everybody just respected the rules, they'd have nothing to whinge about. I also do feel sorry for the pedestrians etc. who get cut up by cyclists doing this.


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## Kies (25 Jul 2013)

as predicted - saw a silly girl nearly get run over by a taxi as her boyfriend tried to keep her off the road.
saw two ninja cyclist - so 3am and raining in shoreditch and they still think drivers will see them???


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## Dan B (25 Jul 2013)

Feastie said:


> Because I feel that people who do that are just giving extra ammunition to those who moan about cyclists and behave badly towards them? There's already enough anti-cyclist stuff, if everybody just respected the rules, they'd have nothing to whinge about.


People who moan about cyclists are always going to find something to moan about: filtering, ASLs, road tax(sic), going too slow, going too fast, not paying for parking, not wearing helmets, not wearing hi vis, wearing hivis, wearing lycra, not wearing lycra, being ont he road, being on the shared use track, being on the pavement, being poor, being rich - it's just a general fear of "the other" . If you're going to get wound up because something is upsetting them, you'll stay wound up for ever.

Relax, ride your own ride.


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## Dan B (25 Jul 2013)

Kies said:


> as predicted - saw a silly girl nearly get run over by a taxi as her boyfriend tried to keep her off the road.
> saw two ninja cyclist - so 3am and raining in shoreditch and they still think drivers will see them???


Everyone in shoreditch leads charmed lives. Except for the people who actually _live_ there, of course, who just find vomit in their doorway the following morning

(former Kingsland Road resident)


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## Feastie (25 Jul 2013)

Dan B said:


> People who moan about cyclists are always going to find something to moan about: filtering, ASLs, road tax(sic), going too slow, going too fast, not paying for parking, not wearing helmets, not wearing hi vis, wearing hivis, wearing lycra, not wearing lycra, being ont he road, being on the shared use track, being on the pavement, being poor, being rich - it's just a general fear of "the other" . If you're going to get wound up because something is upsetting them, you'll stay wound up for ever.
> 
> Relax, ride your own ride.


 
To be honest I don't care if people moan about those other things, that's them being ridiculous, but the road law is there for the safety of everybody, so I think it's a bit of a bigger deal and a legitimate gripe for other people. I don't think that red light jumping etc. is about 'fear of the other' or anything of the sort, it's a genuine problem for everybody else. I don't think you can really compare any of those things you listed (which are just people being awkward, to be honest - it's not like it's illegal or dangerous for cyclists not to pay road tax or to park for free or wear lycra) with something which is both illegal and dangerous. Yeah sure, not wearing a helmet is potentially dangerous if you fall off and hit your head - but it's only _you_ that's got the responsibility for that and who is harmed as a result. If you hit somebody, somebody hits you or even just that you freak out all the pedestrians because you were in the wrong place and ignored the traffic system, then that's no longer about you, you're making a nuisance for other people too.


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## y2blade (25 Jul 2013)

I'm coming to the city on Saturday for the day..have to option of bringing my bike with me, erm I think I'll leave it at home.


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## ianrauk (25 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> I'm coming to the city on Saturday for the day..have to option of bringing my bike with me, erm I think I'll leave it at home.


 

Don't listen to the naysayers.
As I have said previous. London is fantastic for cycling.
You will be missing out if you don't.


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## Tribanite (25 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> I'm coming to the city on Saturday for the day..have to option of bringing my bike with me, erm I think I'll leave it at home.



Bring your bike!!! You will see so much more of London and the crazy light jumping,rude,ninja,camera wearing cycling commuters will be at home


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## stowie (25 Jul 2013)

Feastie said:


> To be honest I don't care if people moan about those other things, that's them being ridiculous, but the road law is there for the safety of everybody, so I think it's a bit of a bigger deal and a legitimate gripe for other people. I don't think that red light jumping etc. is about 'fear of the other' or anything of the sort, it's a genuine problem for everybody else. I don't think you can really compare any of those things you listed (which are just people being awkward, to be honest - it's not like it's illegal or dangerous for cyclists not to pay road tax or to park for free or wear lycra) with something which is both illegal and dangerous. Yeah sure, not wearing a helmet is potentially dangerous if you fall off and hit your head - but it's only _you_ that's got the responsibility for that and who is harmed as a result. If you hit somebody, somebody hits you or even just that you freak out all the pedestrians because you were in the wrong place and ignored the traffic system, then that's no longer about you, you're making a nuisance for other people too.


 

I don't think drivers close pass / intimidate cyclists through a sense of indignation at having seen another cyclist break the rules. They do these things because they can (and we are perceived to hold them up etc.) and then try to justify it by citing the narrative about rule breaking. I suppose, if challenged, a driver endangering another humans life for no real reason seems rather psychotic so they try to deflect the action. Although using a tonne of metal to threaten someone because they had seen someone completely unrelated break the rules seems a touch mad as well.

Ultimately, I think the justification thing is a knee-jerk reaction to a driver being challenged on something they probably didn't even consider being particularly dangerous (because they have never been in the cyclist's position). I think any excuse would be used as Dan B says. 

This isn't to excuse people running red lights. It can be dangerous, and is often deeply antisocial as the main group it affects are road users even more vulnerable than cyclists - pedestrians.

I watched the programme about TFL the other day which featured cyclists and car drivers breaking the law. It was interesting the slant given to both. With the car drivers there was justification from members of staff that it was human nature and must be frustrating in that amount of traffic. The cyclists were branded by some interviewees as maniacs for whom the rules didn't apply more than once. There was even a scene where a van driver (who had been accused of intimidating a cyclist) said that "the rules don't apply to cyclists" even though he was standing next to two traffic officers specifically there to catch and fine cyclists jumping the lights. Of course no-one interviewing him mentioned this and the narrative is allowed to stand unchallenged.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Jul 2013)

(Some) People do cycle badly (everywhere)

London is an AMAZING place to cycle these days. Even more so at weekends or at night. Especially if, like me, you used to do it daily when it wasn't. Just bring a bike, or grab a boris, a +ve attitude and a cheery smile. And get used to getting lost; that's when you find the best bits.


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## Dan B (25 Jul 2013)

Feastie said:


> To be honest I don't care if people moan about those other things, that's them being ridiculous, but the road law is there for the safety of everybody, so I think it's a bit of a bigger deal and a legitimate gripe for other people.


Either way, you're still getting upset ("wound up") on behalf of other people. You can't control how they react, you need to learn to let it go


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## y2blade (25 Jul 2013)

ianrauk said:


> Don't listen to the naysayers.
> As I have said previous. London is fantastic for cycling.
> You will be missing out if you don't.


 


Have just been reading about the Barclays Cycle Hire sceme (Boris bikes)...might well grab one of those tbh.


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## ianrauk (25 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> Have just been reading about the Barclays Cycle Hire sceme (Boris bikes)...might well grab one of those tbh.


 


Good call. You won't regret it.


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## Feastie (25 Jul 2013)

Dan B said:


> Either way, you're still getting upset ("wound up") on behalf of other people. You can't control how they react, you need to learn to let it go


 
...okay  Fret ye not, I'm not exactly losing sleep over this, I just have an opinion. Pretty sure a few seconds of thinking somebody else is an idiot isn't going to harm me too much, but thanks for the advice! Occasionally we all need a chill pill, it's true. Especially in London! 

And also, I agree with everybody above. I really enjoy cycling around London and wouldn't want to put anyone off, it's occasionally stressful but compared with buses or the tube? It's a glorious thing. You see loads and it's invigorating, if a bit fume-y.


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## stowie (25 Jul 2013)

Just my 2p - I am not a particularly quick or fearless cyclist. I have an old bicycle which would only go above 30mph if it was thrown off a cliff. I am most certainly not into dangerous sports. But cycling in London is actually the best way around these days, and I would encourage anyone to have a go. Of course things could and should be much easier and more pleasant for cyclists, but as Feastie says, the tube and buses are stressful especially in this weather. And as for driving - well people who drive through London are really the ones that are mad...


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## Svendo (25 Jul 2013)

stowie said:


> I watched the programme about TFL the other day which featured cyclists and car drivers breaking the law. It was interesting the slant given to both. With the car drivers there was justification from members of staff that it was human nature and must be frustrating in that amount of traffic. The cyclists were branded by some interviewees as maniacs for whom the rules didn't apply more than once. There was even a scene where a van driver (who had been accused of intimidating a cyclist) said that "the rules don't apply to cyclists" even though he was standing next to two traffic officers specifically there to catch and fine cyclists jumping the lights. Of course no-one interviewing him mentioned this and the narrative is allowed to stand unchallenged.


 

I saw that too. There was one telling bit with the cycle-plod though. He was on about the high number of RLJing cyclists even when he is about in his POLICE Hi-Viz, and turned to the red light behind him to inevitably prove his point where the lights had just turned red. Unfortunately he was confounded by a well behaved ASL of cyclists all waiting patiently!
They did get a couple though, and the plod was insightful regarding the one goes then others follow phenomenon. The bits specifically about cyclists weren't that well balanced, but the overall tone was that the roads are too full and that causes frustration and people to act like they wouldn't otherwise.

I was chatting to my sister who drives from wimbledon to paddinton for work and also into the city for meetings and so on (she is disabled BTW so no 'she's part of the problem' tangents please). Her impression as a former cyclist is that the massive rise in cyclists causes its own new problems. She was waiting to turn left across a bus&cycle lane, but the constant flow of 8-across cyclists made it impossible for her to turn, and as she gradually was able to move across she had cyclist streaming past on both sides, and sensed some displeasure that she was causing an obstruction. Annoying as she was really trying to drive considerately but not getting any in return to enable her to make progress.
In general she says RLJing isn't half as bad as you might think, what she did mention is the 'swarming' especially of buses when they stop where lots of riders filter down both sides causing potential conflicts and danger and stress for the driver when they do want to move off.


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## ec4cycle (27 Jul 2013)

I live in Central London EC4, I cycle, drive and have an HGV Class 1. I really enjoy cycling and it is a great way to get around. Working in Dagenham I frequently cycle to and from work to EC4 using Cycle Superhighway 3, but on Friday for the first time in five years suffered my worst crash - caused by another cyclist.

To be honest I am not surprised. Too often cyclists are not looking where they are going, overtaking with no room to get back, cycling too fast or going across red (cycle) lights. The biggest risk to safe cycling in London is other irresponsible cyclists. It really is time that perhaps some cyclists looked at their own standard of road behaviour before taking time to criticise other road users, road designers and planners. 


I will be off my bike for a couple of weeks now and have no alternative but to drive my car, all due to some idiot cyclist.


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## stowie (27 Jul 2013)

ec4cycle said:


> I live in Central London EC4, I cycle, drive and have an HGV Class 1. I really enjoy cycling and it is a great way to get around. Working in Dagenham I frequently cycle to and from work to EC4 using Cycle Superhighway 3, but on Friday for the first time in five years suffered my worst crash - caused by another cyclist.
> 
> To be honest I am not surprised. Too often cyclists are not looking where they are going, overtaking with no room to get back, cycling too fast or going across red (cycle) lights.* The biggest risk to safe cycling in London is other irresponsible cyclists.* It really is time that perhaps some cyclists looked at their own standard of road behaviour before taking time to criticise other road users, road designers and planners.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry to hear about your accident - hopefully you will get well soon. I certainly see some stupid cycling in London as well from time to time.

But the bit in bold is simply not backed up by statistics. Cycle fatalities involve HGVs to a level that is completely disproportionate to the number of HGVs on the road. I think it even narrows down further to tipper trucks.


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## jansman (27 Jul 2013)

I cannot comment on London. My take on this topic though, is that cyclists should obey the Highway Code. I am a hardcore commuter BTW. As a cyclist I expect motorists to abide by the Highway Code, and in return , I do the same. Mutual respect on crowded roads.


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## Hill Wimp (27 Jul 2013)

y2blade said:


> I'm coming to the city on Saturday for the day..have to option of bringing my bike with me, erm I think I'll leave it at home.


 

I work and commute daily in London. Just like anywhere else there are cr*p drivers and wells as cr*p cyclists its just the medias hobby horse is the woe of the cyclist in London.

Yes there are London Taxis and buses with my shoe print embedded in their sides but equally there are fellow cyclists that have nearly got me killed.

Don't let that put you off, cycling in London is really brilliant you just need to be aware and have eyes and ears about you. 

Enjoy the ride, im sure you will be glad you did it.


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## Hill Wimp (27 Jul 2013)

Its is but i have to admit i work and cycle there but i wizz home to the shires at the end of the day so i have split loyalties


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## PaulSB (28 Jul 2013)

[QUOTE 2569590, member: 1314"]OP still hiding under the table, as I predicted. Why is he so upset about a "brush of wind" passing him so threateningly he needs to post about it on a public forum? He's just just scared of the other.[/quote]

Given the impression I've gained reading this thread it's hardly surprising. 

As I said earlier I've had similar experience in the capital. When I raised it on here I was accused of being a part of the problem and effectively anti-cyclist. 

When I visit London I use public transport as I no longer feel confident to drive as the standard of driving and traffic pressure makes it a very unpleasant experience. It's also less tiring and more productive to use the train. 

If London is becoming a city dominated by cyclists this is excellent news but I feel anyone who does not recognise there is an issue with cycling standards is choosing to ignore the fact. 

I can understand why some riders find it necessary to ride as they do during the week but this does not excuse the riding I observed on a quiet Sunday morning with dozens of riders endangering themselves and car drivers. 

My view is some who live and drive or cycle in heavily, probably over, populated areas do as they feel necessary to get around. I'm just glad to live somewhere this is not necessary. 

There is a clear them and us, drivers and cyclists, approach running through much of the commutting section which to my mind indicates the difficulty of getting a proportion of the driving public to ever accept cyclists.


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## GrumpyGregry (28 Jul 2013)

London increasingly recognises itself as a Cycling City, albeit a flawed one, still dominated by the infernal combustion engine. Evidence for the prosecution? A foyer exhibition at the Museum of London entitled "London Cycles" has just opened. It includes a fascinating, and rather beautiful, infographic plotting Boris Bike journies around the capital.

I've just sat and eaten breakfast in a hotel in EC3. Twenty plus bicycles went past while we were eating. Not one car. European tourists are jumping on Boris Bikes and taking in the sites like it was the most normal thing in the world to do whilst, generally, the Yanks and the Brits stand by, looking aghast.

Get with the programme people.


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## Davidsw8 (29 Jul 2013)

As much as I moan about pedestrians and other cyclists (and black cabs) etc, and how damn dangerous it seems, cycling around London is immeasurably the best way of getting around. I get to cycle up Victoria Embankment, round Westminster Cathedral and Horse Guards Road every day and it'd be hard to imagine more iconic views of London than you get from them.

I had to get on the tube last week and it was horrible, and it wasn't even in rush hour. Driving (and parking) is pretty awful too, in fact I think the only benefit of driving round Central London is if you have to pick-up/drop-off something bulky or heavy.

Also, buses are ok if you've got the time and you don't really have to be somewhere by a specific time.


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## Brandane (1 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2569602, member: 1314"]I mean, London's turning into one of the world's greatest cycling cities and some people just come here and whinge about it? ffs Whinge and whine is what they do. He's a stuck-in-the-mud rural type who tries and passes his opinions off as "being normal" because that's what the people in his pub say.[/quote]

Deluded.


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## Kies (1 Aug 2013)

He's not deluded. I use tube, trains, buses and drive in Central London and have done so for the last 23 years.
Having rediscovered cycling last year, I prefer it to all the other modes of transport (weather permitting)
99% of my rides are trouble free and I arrive smiling.


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## Hill Wimp (1 Aug 2013)

Kies said:


> He's not deluded. I use tube, trains, buses and drive in Central London and have done so for the last 23 years.
> Having rediscovered cycling last year, I prefer it to all the other modes of transport (weather permitting)
> 99% of my rides are trouble free and I arrive smiling.


 


Totally agree


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## Brandane (1 Aug 2013)

Kies said:


> He's not deluded. I use tube, trains, buses and drive in Central London and have done so for the last 23 years.
> Having rediscovered cycling last year, I prefer it to all the other modes of transport (weather permitting)
> 99% of my rides are trouble free and I arrive smiling.


 
Agreed; that cycling is probably the least bad option when it comes to getting around London. But to describe it as one of the worlds greatest cycling cities? Not in my experience it's not. Great cycling and cities don't belong in the same sentence, for starters.


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## Hill Wimp (1 Aug 2013)

Brandane said:


> Agreed; that cycling is probably the least bad option when it comes to getting around London. But to describe it as one of the worlds greatest cycling cities? Not in my experience it's not.


 

I do it 5 days out of 7 and some times 10 days on the trot ............................... it is sorry and i have cycled in a lot of cities around the globe.


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## PaulSB (2 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2569602, member: 1314"]I mean, London's turning into one of the world's greatest cycling cities and some people just come here and whinge about it? ffs Whinge and whine is what they do. He's a stuck-in-the-mud rural type who tries and passes his opinions off as "being normal" because that's what the people in his pub say.[/quote]

Just out of interest why would "rural types" be as you describe? I'm a "rural type" and don't really like to be described in that manner. What I do know is I have the best of both worlds, Manchester 40 minutes away, home quiet and peaceful, living in a community surrounded by our best friends, fresh air, see the stars at night, bats buzz past when we sit in the garden, etc. 

There are real differences between city cycling standards and those I know, presumably rather backward "rural types" have a lot to learn? One indicator of this is the attitude towards anyone who remarks adversely about some London riders, as demonstrated by the above quote and similar remarks from this poster and others. 

Living in the country gives us a different lifestyle, it doesn't make us country bumpkins incapable of forming our own opinions.

BTW I feel York is better cycling city but that's just my experience.


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## Hill Wimp (2 Aug 2013)

PaulSB said:


> Just out of interest why would "rural types" be as you describe? I'm a "rural type" and don't really like to be described in that manner. What I do know is I have the best of both worlds, Manchester 40 minutes away, home quiet and peaceful, living in a community surrounded by our best friends, fresh air, see the stars at night, bats buzz past when we sit in the garden, etc.
> 
> There are real differences between city cycling standards and those I know, presumably rather backward "rural types" have a lot to learn? One indicator of this is the attitude towards anyone who remarks adversely about some London riders, as demonstrated by the above quote and similar remarks from this poster and others.
> 
> ...


 


I do agree Paul. I don't live in London i happen to work there. I too live in the country. I love cycling in London but i actually find cycling in the country can sometimes be far more dangerous as a lot of the drivers round my way just don't expect a bike to appear or even to be going at speed.I still love it though, ive just done 45 miles in glorious countryside and i too like to see the stars.

They are two totally different cycling environments but i have to disagree with others when they say London is not a great city for cycling in.


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## PaulSB (5 Aug 2013)

That's very good to read and like every other cyclist I would have enjoyed such a day. 

I am though still puzzled as to why you seem to look down your nose at us poor rural types incapable of forming our own opinions?

It's all very well having a dig at people who hold a different view point but doing so really does require a response when challenged over it.


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## Kies (5 Aug 2013)

I see him defending London as the thread was started on a way that trashed London and it's cycling.
The capital is leading the way cycling has developed over the last few years. Such events show how popular cycling has become as a sport, transport and a viable commuting method in the capital.
24 hours in London - now I know why I LOVE LONDON!


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## Brandane (5 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2581479, member: 1314"]Brandane cycling in Ayrshire:

View attachment 27216
[/quote]

After reading this post:



McWobble said:


> The ride back to CoG's place will remain in the Cycle Chat annals of Legend forever. In retrospect, perhaps we should have realised that cycling back was perhaps not the best idea when CoG had a clipless moment at the second set of lights. But, undeterred, we forged onwards. Into the teeth of a thunderstorm. Complete with torrential downpour. We were soaked in seconds. But at least it wasn't cold. After a brief regrouping on the pavement, CoG collided with an inconsiderately placed bollard. And fell off. I suggested the train might be an idea. CoG demurred, so we forged onwards, the streets now more akin to rivers. I was very glad I was on the Galaxy, with its mudguards rather than the Cannondale which would have been an even more soggy affair. After a few more miles of swimming cycling we were halted by a set of lights which had the effrontery to be red. Whereupon CoG fell off. An onlooker rushed over to check that CoG was okay "It's all right, I'm just drunk". I suggested getting the train. CoG assured me about the efficacy of BEER as a pain killer, so we splashed onwards - after all, it's only blood isn't it?


 
I would suggest that your posted image is more akin to yourself than anyone else! At least you might have been able to stay upright on that cooler box  .


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## Wobblers (5 Aug 2013)

Brandane said:


> After reading this post:
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest that your posted image is more akin to yourself than anyone else! At least you might have been able to stay upright on that cooler box  .


 
Do you know what Brandane? I was cycling right behind him the whole way - and not once did CoG wobble alarmingly, cause any vehicle to take evasive action, jump a red light or endanger anyone else.

I suggest that you try and understand the difference between something that was written on an entirely different thread for the purposes of amusement and gentle piss taking and something that is factual. As the author, I deeply resent the way you have chosen to misrepresent my work and the spirit is was written in. You can start by apologising to both myself and CoG.


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## Brandane (5 Aug 2013)

McWobble said:


> Do you know what Brandane? I was cycling right behind him the whole way - and not once did CoG wobble alarmingly, cause any vehicle to take evasive action, jump a red light or endanger anyone else.
> 
> I suggest that you try and understand the difference between something that was written on an entirely different thread for the purposes of amusement and gentle **** taking and something that is factual. As the author, I deeply resent the way you have chosen to misrepresent my work and the spirit is was written in. You can start by apologising to both myself and CoG.


 
Aye, right! So you think that my post WASN'T done for the purposes of amusement and gentle urine extraction? . CoG has a bite at me, and I have a bite back. That seems to be the way it works on here. Perhaps a dry sense of humour doesn't come across well on an internet forum. C'est la vie. I didn't misrepresent your work; it is quoted verbatim. If you don't want it used, then don't post it on a public forum!

PS.... London is still the pits. For cycling, driving, walking, and most other things .
Note the smiley.


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## Markymark (5 Aug 2013)

London is great. Some cyclists break the rules but more motorists do. I have noticed, though, over the last 5 years that cycling is becoming more widespread. More are now following the rules and drivers are giving them better care.

It will only be a year or two and then cycling will be a strong part of London's transport network.


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## Markymark (5 Aug 2013)

User said:


> It already is.


...even more so.


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## Leodis (5 Aug 2013)

0-markymark-0 said:


> ...even more so.


 

Would be wonderful if the rest of the country got the same funding.


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## Christopher (5 Aug 2013)

I am a bit surprised at how sensitive the London lot are about this, particularly User1314. Perhaps the OP has a point. I visit London sometimes and get a bit overwhelmed by it and I get irrationally wound up by the pace and the agression of road users (_all_ road users). Still if so many ride in it every day it can't be all that bad.


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## martint235 (5 Aug 2013)

McWobble said:


> Do you know what Brandane? I was cycling right behind him the whole way - and not once did CoG wobble alarmingly, cause any vehicle to take evasive action, jump a red light or endanger anyone else.
> 
> I suggest that you try and understand the difference between something that was written on an entirely different thread for the purposes of amusement and gentle **** taking and something that is factual. As the author, I deeply resent the way you have chosen to misrepresent my work and the spirit is was written in. You can start by apologising to both myself and CoG.


 


Brandane said:


> Aye, right! So you think that my post WASN'T done for the purposes of amusement and gentle urine extraction? . CoG has a bite at me, and I have a bite back. That seems to be the way it works on here. Perhaps a dry sense of humour doesn't come across well on an internet forum. C'est la vie.
> 
> PS.... London is still the pits. For cycling, driving, walking, and most other things .
> Note the smiley.


 Tcch, Scottish people.


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## PaulSB (6 Aug 2013)

[QUOTE 2581654, member: 1314"]70,000 cyclists taking part in the London weekend of cycling! [/quote]

Great Manchester Cycle 13 miles of closed roads for up to four loops. 

http://www.greatcycle.org/

Bolton Triathlon including 112 miles of semi-closed (that is junctions controlled, cycle priority) and 5500 feet of climbing. 

http://www.ironmanuk.com/ironman-uk/event-info/course/bike-course


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## Roadrider48 (6 Aug 2013)

Davidsw8 said:


> I think one added dangerous element in London that other places in the UK doesn't have, is the Boris bikes. They are such a hazard, to me anyway, the people that ride them tend to be very unsure/nervous which is compounded by the bikes themselves being very heavy and difficult to handle.
> 
> I tried to overtake a VERY slow chap in a suit on a Boris bike this morning, when I could eventually get past, a cabby cut in to the cycle lane and blocked me off so I had to remain behind. He was almost going so slow as to be stationary!
> 
> I also think the black cabs having their indicator lights disabled causes a lot of problems!


Black cabbies show total disregard for everyone!


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## lukesdad (6 Aug 2013)

I think you're being a little harsh on the poor oppressed London luvvies. They just need educating bless 'em. Did you know they actually believe there are hills in Richmond park ! Get down there and give 'em a good scalping on the road and in the pub you'll feel much better and it's good for their development. Ducky didn't even know the benfit of beer and jam sarnies in a training programme ...outrageous!


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## Sittingduck (6 Aug 2013)

lukesdad said:


> I think you're being a little harsh on the poor oppressed London luvvies. They just need educating bless 'em. Did you know they actually believe there are hills in Richmond park ! Get down there and give 'em a good scalping on the road and in the pub you'll feel much better and it's good for their development. Ducky didn't even know the benfit of beer and jam sarnies in a training programme ...outrageous!



You're talking about lager, right? None of that stale brown filth...
Oh, and they call em butties up north. They dunno what sarnies are!!


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## lukesdad (6 Aug 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> You're talking about lager, right? None of that stale brown filth...
> Oh, and they call em butties up north. They dunno what sarnies are!!


Bladdy heathens ! 

Obviously west is the root of cycling civilisation .


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