# London pull out of 2017 Grand Depart



## Bobby Mhor (28 Sep 2015)

No funding apparently HERE

Sorry if I've posted in wrong bit of forum


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## alicat (28 Sep 2015)

Oh good, Yorkshire can have it again.


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## Dayvo (28 Sep 2015)

The organisers won't forget that in a hurry.

Au revoir, Londres.


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## derrick (28 Sep 2015)

What a bunch of w*****s.


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## albion (28 Sep 2015)

That saving will pay for the garden bridge daffodils.


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## themosquitoking (28 Sep 2015)

Dislike this immensely but struggling to think how we would have had two or three stages in London.


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## oldfatfool (28 Sep 2015)

Guess thats the last we will see of le tour for a good many years.


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## Slioch (28 Sep 2015)

Just bring it back up to Yorkshire. At least we'll do it properly up here.


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## Basil.B (28 Sep 2015)

Better to have it in Yorkshire, better scenery!
I find watching them go round the same old routes in London rather tedious now.
The last stage in this years Tour of Britain was dull as ditchwater.


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## davefb (28 Sep 2015)

Dayvo said:


> The organisers won't forget that in a hurry.
> 
> Au revoir, Londres.


but will they tar all the uk with that london brush though, since normally any uk starts always end up in london at some point?
if london hadn't bothered , would manchester have had a better chance ?


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## themosquitoking (28 Sep 2015)

davefb said:


> but will they tar all the uk with that london brush though, since normally any uk starts always end up in london at some point?
> if london hadn't bothered , would manchester have had a better chance ?


Manchester always has a better chance of winning when London doesn't enter.


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## HF2300 (29 Sep 2015)

davefb said:


> but will they tar all the uk with that london brush though, since normally any uk starts always end up in london at some point?
> if london hadn't bothered , would manchester have had a better chance ?



They won't tar all the UK with the London brush after the success of the Grand Depart in Yorkshire. They can't ignore that many spectators and that much revenue.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (29 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> They won't tar all the UK with the London brush after the success of the Grand Depart in Yorkshire. They can't ignore that many spectators and that much revenue.



Welcome to Yorkshire might not be too keen
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-visit-leaves-welcome-to-yorkshire-1m-out-of-pocket/


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## Bobby Mhor (29 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> Welcome to Yorkshire might not be too keen
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-visit-leaves-welcome-to-yorkshire-1m-out-of-pocket/


I'm sure any generated tourist interest/publicity might be worth that loss...
but the merchandising was a bit of a daftie..


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## martint235 (29 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> They won't tar all the UK with the London brush after the success of the Grand Depart in Yorkshire. They can't ignore that many spectators and that much revenue.


I think the French will surprise you with how petty they can be. They've been very keen on London, for the tour to visit 3 times in 10 years would have been pretty good going for a foreign city. I doubt they'll even look at England again in the next 10 years, they may see Glasgow or Edinburgh as an opportunity to spite England given the push for independence


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## SWSteve (29 Sep 2015)

http://newsthump.com/2015/09/29/furore-as-london-turns-down-chance-to-watch-drug-users-on-pushbikes/


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## Fubar (29 Sep 2015)

martint235 said:


> I think the French will surprise you with how petty they can be. They've been very keen on London, for the tour to visit 3 times in 10 years would have been pretty good going for a foreign city. I doubt they'll even look at England again in the next 10 years, they may see Glasgow or Edinburgh as an opportunity to spite England given the push for independence



Yay!


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## steveindenmark (29 Sep 2015)

There are lots of nice places in Southern Germany for the tour to start. Logistically, it seems to make sense.


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## ManiaMuse (29 Sep 2015)

I kind of agree with Boris... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34389832

...assuming that £35 million actually gets spent on cycling in the UK instead of not getting spent and being quietly subsumed back into the budget.

Plus the tour has been to London too recently anyway. Why not somewhere in Eastern Europe if the Giro can start in Ireland?


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## davefb (29 Sep 2015)

ManiaMuse said:


> I kind of agree with Boris... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34389832
> 
> ...assuming that £35 million actually gets spent on cycling in the UK instead of not getting spent and being quietly subsumed back into the budget.
> 
> Plus the tour has been to London too recently anyway. Why not somewhere in Eastern Europe if the Giro can start in Ireland?



so why did they bid then? in order to spite the uk regions? must have been galling for him those two days in yorkshire..
he's not that bothered to 'pull a magic funding rabbit out the hat' because it won't be his name in 2017. clearly the funding should not be from 'safety' but tbh that just sounds like a distraction.

disappointing they've managed to make a loss on the merchandising though ...


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## HF2300 (29 Sep 2015)

Marmion said:


> Welcome to Yorkshire might not be too keen
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-visit-leaves-welcome-to-yorkshire-1m-out-of-pocket/



What @Bobby Mhor said. WTY might not be keen, but that doesn't mean ASO won't want to do it just because of London's idiocy.

TBH isn't a tourism QUANGO's job to spend money in order to bring tourism and revenue to the region they're responsible for?



martint235 said:


> I think the French will surprise you with how petty they can be. They've been very keen on London, for the tour to visit 3 times in 10 years would have been pretty good going for a foreign city. I doubt they'll even look at England again in the next 10 years, they may see Glasgow or Edinburgh as an opportunity to spite England given the push for independence



Ah, the auld enemy. Last time I looked Glasgow and Edinburgh were in the UK as well. I suspect ASO have not got where they are by a lack of business sense - as perhaps confirmed by the money it's said WTY owe ASO in the article @Marmion linked to.


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## HF2300 (29 Sep 2015)

ManiaMuse said:


> I kind of agree with Boris... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34389832
> 
> ...assuming that £35 million actually gets spent on cycling in the UK instead of not getting spent and being quietly subsumed back into the budget.
> 
> Plus the tour has been to London too recently anyway. Why not somewhere in Eastern Europe if the Giro can start in Ireland?



The stupidity is not in not having the Grand Depart, it's in leading ASO down the garden path and then pulling out at the last minute. These are decisions that should, and presumably were, made when deciding to bid in the first place. Why get so far down the road then change their minds? If it wasn't worth the money and it would be better spent on long term cycling infrastructure, why wasn't that obvious at the point they decided to bid? What had changed?


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## HF2300 (29 Sep 2015)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> http://newsthump.com/2015/09/29/furore-as-london-turns-down-chance-to-watch-drug-users-on-pushbikes/





Newsthump.com said:


> TFL ... pointed to the extra strain on cleaning staff, who would be burdened with the task of scraping up the remains of competitors who had been knocked down and killed by lorries and buses turning left.


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## Bobby Mhor (29 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> The stupidity is not in not having the Grand Depart, it's in leading ASO down the garden path and then pulling out at the last minute. These are decisions that should, and presumably were, made when deciding to bid in the first place. Why get so far down the road then change their minds? If it wasn't worth the money and it would be better spent on long term cycling infrastructure, why wasn't that obvious at the point they decided to bid? What had changed?


Boris says it was *entirely his* decision HERE
No democracy here then?

Who made the initial decision to bid? surely Boris would be part of this..
or has Ronnie Pickering threatened to appear?


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## HF2300 (29 Sep 2015)

Bobby Mhor said:


> Who made the initial decision to bid? surely Boris would be part of this..



You'd think, wouldn't you. Unless he had his head in a pig at the time.


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## Dan B (29 Sep 2015)

ManiaMuse said:


> I kind of agree with Boris... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34389832
> 
> ...assuming that £35 million actually gets spent on cycling in the UK instead of


on e.g. the Garden Bridge, which has now had £30 million from TfL and £30m from the Treasury and is going to cost the public purse £3.5 million a year for upkeep for the rest of its life. Almost as good a deal as the Coathanger Carriages


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## Accy cyclist (30 Sep 2015)

Not Yorkshire again, they've had their moment ofr glory.


Slioch said:


> Just bring it back up to Yorkshire. At least we'll do it properly up here.





Not Yorkshire again.  You've had your moment of glory.


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## martint235 (30 Sep 2015)

HF2300 said:


> What @Bobby Mhor said. WTY might not be keen, but that doesn't mean ASO won't want to do it just because of London's idiocy.
> 
> TBH isn't a tourism QUANGO's job to spend money in order to bring tourism and revenue to the region they're responsible for?
> 
> ...


I don't remember saying they weren't in the UK. I'm also not arguing that ASO have business sense but to be honest, wherever they put the Grand Depart will tend to be good business. They do however have that Gallic sense of peevedness and I will be really surprised if they bring it to England again anytime soon. They will also recognise not only the organisational and scenic elements of a stage 1 in Scotland but also the fact that by cosying up to NS they can stick a couple of fingers up to England.


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## Bobby Mhor (30 Sep 2015)

Its going to Germany...
More guff from Boris the master puppeteer and his puppet in charge of TfL HERE

PS Guardian alert, full of pretentious columnists..


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## albion (30 Sep 2015)

The question I have, is why did Boris waste loads of time and money by not coming out against it beforehand?

Scandelous behaviour.


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## oldroadman (30 Sep 2015)

martint235 said:


> I don't remember saying they weren't in the UK. I'm also not arguing that ASO have business sense but to be honest, wherever they put the Grand Depart will tend to be good business. They do however have that Gallic sense of peevedness and I will be really surprised if they bring it to England again anytime soon. They will also recognise not only the organisational and scenic elements of a stage 1 in Scotland but also the fact that by cosying up to NS they can stick a couple of fingers up to England.


One good reason for not starting in Scotland - transfers. Bad enough Yorkshire to Cambridge last time around. Transfers in UK are different, autoroutes/motorways are overcrowded, full of trucks, and too busy, transfers take for ever. Start in say Edinburgh, and you still have to get to a channel port so one day in Scotland, two in England, plus big transfers. From a team/rider point of view, not too good. Plus of course finding 4,000 or so beds every night.


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## raleighnut (30 Sep 2015)

oldroadman said:


> One good reason for not starting in Scotland - transfers. Bad enough Yorkshire to Cambridge last time around. Transfers in UK are different, autoroutes/motorways are overcrowded, full of trucks, and too busy, transfers take for ever. Start in say Edinburgh, and you still have to get to a channel port so one day in Scotland, two in England, plus big transfers. From a team/rider point of view, not too good. Plus of course finding 4,000 or so beds every night.


They could take a ferry from Newcastle to Holland after a couple of days in Scotland that gives em 15 1/2hours on the boat, plenty of time to roll off in the morning and then cycle down to France.


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## Bobby Mhor (30 Sep 2015)

raleighnut said:


> They could take a ferry from Newcastle to Holland after a couple of days in Scotland that gives em 15 1/2hours on the boat, plenty of time to roll off in the morning and then cycle down to France.


They could rent a (or divert a Newcastle) ferry and sail from Rosyth to le Continent...
accommodation could be a problem en Ecosse...
pity


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## oldroadman (30 Sep 2015)

raleighnut said:


> They could take a ferry from Newcastle to Holland after a couple of days in Scotland that gives em 15 1/2hours on the boat, plenty of time to roll off in the morning and then cycle down to France.


15.5 hours on a north sea ferry rocking and rolling all over the place. I can't imagine a more wonderful preparation for a day's stage...


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## raleighnut (30 Sep 2015)

oldroadman said:


> 15.5 hours on a north sea ferry rocking and rolling all over the place. I can't imagine a more wonderful preparation for a day's stage...


Hence the 
I'd like to see the TDeF go back to the tough challenge it used to be with riders carrying their own spares and riding on a combination of Brandy and Cocaine/Amphetamines whilst they lit each others Cigarettes at the top of a climb.





Although this is probably a better pic


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## themosquitoking (30 Sep 2015)

I demand they bring back bidons on handlebars.


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## HF2300 (3 Oct 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-londons-decision-to-turn-down-tour-de-france

... makes things a bit clearer - they'd hoped for external funding which didn't materialise, so then the choice became spend the cycling budget or don't do it. Boardman echoes our comments at the end.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but you'd have thought they'd have a good idea whether the funding was in place before bidding, perhaps?


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## Bobby Mhor (3 Oct 2015)

HF2300 said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-londons-decision-to-turn-down-tour-de-france
> 
> ... makes things a bit clearer - they'd hoped for external funding which didn't materialise, so then the choice became spend the cycling budget or don't do it. Boardman echoes our comments at the end.
> 
> Maybe I'm being harsh, but you'd have thought they'd have a good idea whether the funding was in place before bidding, perhaps?


I reckon Boris just took the hump....
I think the whole story isn't being floated out...
the bulk of the money was to be for the infrastructure to be closed for the specific time period.
The ASO surely should have guarantees that funding would be in place before awarding the Grand Depart as it makes them look a bunch of fandangos as well. Poor business all round.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Oct 2015)

oldroadman said:


> One good reason for not starting in Scotland - transfers. Bad enough Yorkshire to Cambridge last time around. Transfers in UK are different, autoroutes/motorways are overcrowded, full of trucks, and too busy, transfers take for ever. Start in say Edinburgh, and you still have to get to a channel port so one day in Scotland, two in England, plus big transfers. From a team/rider point of view, not too good. Plus of course finding 4,000 or so beds every night.


How did they get over and back to Belfast for the Giro and what were sleeping arrangements? Likewise when the Tour went to Ireland in 98? 

I don't know the answer but it seemed to work; most things do if you want them to.


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## martint235 (6 Oct 2015)

They still keep toying with the idea of using Martinique for a stage as it's one of the few French Departments not used yet. The transfer logistics will be interesting


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## rich p (6 Oct 2015)

Marmion said:


> How did they get over and back to Belfast for the Giro and what were sleeping arrangements? Likewise when the Tour went to Ireland in 98?
> 
> I don't know the answer but it seemed to work; most things do if you want them to.


Didn't they have an extra rest day?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Oct 2015)

rich p said:


> Didn't they have an extra rest day?


There was in 2014 Giro, where they had 3 stages and then a rest day, but the 1998 Tour had 3 stages in Ireland and then stage 4 in France (Roscoff) without a rest day in between (and without a lot of the drugs they planned to take on their travels...)


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## oldroadman (7 Oct 2015)

Marmion said:


> There was in 2014 Giro, where they had 3 stages and then a rest day, but the 1998 Tour had 3 stages in Ireland and then stage 4 in France (Roscoff) without a rest day in between (and without a lot of the drugs they planned to take on their travels...)


The riders will have flown charter to the nearest airport. Probably on the flight within 90 minutes of the stage finish. Bigger problem for team staff, press, officials, who have to get on a ferry and try to do all their usual work, get some sleep on a ship, get off early, cover a stage. No surprise that people are tired and that's when the mistakes happen. From a rider point of view the most tricky days are ones following a long transfer.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Apr 2016)

It's a bit early to be starting a 2017 TdF thread so I thought I'd chuck this in here:

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/region/l...sera-diffuse-en-integralite-sur-ia0b0n3432537

The 2017 TdF will be broadcast in full of France Television, every stage from start to finish.


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## NorthernDave (6 Apr 2016)

The only reason the TdF merchandise cost Welcome to Yorkshire a fortune was that someone in their marketing department thought that people would buy any old crap with a logo on at any price. Even when 'reduced to clear' what they had left made no financial sense (£10 for a mug for an event nearly 2 years ago..?).
Plus it was only available to buy in a very limited number of actual shops / outlets, other than the website.
It was the only aspect of the Grand Depart that wasn't well organised and they still have stock left:
http://wtyshop.com/subcategories/294-grand-depart-clearance

As for London pulling out? Well Boris has his eyes on a bigger prize now doesn't he - and I doubt that he cares much what anyone thinks.


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