# Baby signing



## winjim (16 Sep 2016)

We've been teaching our little girl baby sign language so she can communicate with us before she learns to speak. She knows basic things like asking for milk, asking where something is and asking for more. She also knows a few animals. The latest sign she's mastered is _bicycle_! So this morning, she asked to come out into the garden and look at my bike while I was getting ready. She's really interested in it and was signing away while I showed her. She's very clever, I think Father Christmas might be bringing something special in a few months.


----------



## Hugh Manatee (16 Sep 2016)

Awwww, the marvel of the developing brain.

For a second there I thought it was something weird. You know, like when you have to have a plaster cast and get everyone to sign it........


----------



## winjim (16 Sep 2016)

Hugh Manatee said:


> Awwww, the marvel of the developing brain.
> 
> For a second there I thought it was something weird. You know, like when you have to have a plaster cast and get everyone to sign it........


Ha! No, nothing weird like that. But it is pretty incredible, being able to have a reasonably intelligible two way conversation with a thirteen month old.


----------



## summerdays (16 Sep 2016)

The main one I remember my son knowing was biscuit.... he had glue ear which delayed his speech so we learnt signing as an alternative to picking him up and him pointing and grunting ... it was sort of like radar but not very defined!!


----------



## Bazzer (16 Sep 2016)

Ah the joys of buying a first bike, then wrapping it, the first sit and later the first time on two wheels self propelled.  Memorable events.


----------



## winjim (16 Sep 2016)

She's so adorable. When she came home from the park I had just got back from work and she got all excited and started signing. Apparently after I left this morning she was asking where the bike had gone*. And she got a bit upset at tea time so I had to take her out to the shed so she could look at the bikes. That cheered her up. 

*_The bike_, you'll notice. Not _Daddy_.


----------



## winjim (16 Sep 2016)

summerdays said:


> The main one I remember my son knowing was biscuit.... he had glue ear which delayed his speech so we learnt signing as an alternative to picking him up and him pointing and grunting ... it was sort of like radar but not very defined!!


It's impressive how much they pick up, isn't it? I was skeptical, thinking she'd already be talking before she learned enough signing for it to be useful, but she's really taken to it.


----------



## summerdays (16 Sep 2016)

winjim said:


> It's impressive how much they pick up, isn't it? I was skeptical, thinking she'd already be talking before she learned enough signing for it to be useful, but she's really taken to it.


He could only say 3 words by the time he was 22 months, so it was very useful for communication!


----------



## Drago (16 Sep 2016)

Winjim, is your little girl deaf, or are you deaf, or are you just teaching her sign as a clever and useful tool?


----------



## ChrisV (16 Sep 2016)

I wonder if teaching her sign language takes away the need to communicate verbally and may delay her speech?


----------



## Saluki (16 Sep 2016)

My god daughter's daughter signs and she is brilliant, she is nearly 3 and quite chatty but really took to signing. Neither my god daughter or her husband are deaf. I used to sign a bit at school but have forgotten most of it now.


----------



## summerdays (16 Sep 2016)

ChrisV said:


> I wonder if teaching her sign language takes away the need to communicate verbally and may delay her speech?


Once his glue ear cleared up he soon learn plenty of words. It was a means that he could communicate with us.


----------



## Julia9054 (16 Sep 2016)

My son learned to speak ridiculously early but i think it was because he was fascinated by sounds. You could point to objects and he could name them and he would parrot back words all day long. It still took him the normal length of time to realise that the words could be used to communicate and ask for things he wanted. It was very strange - i have never known another baby learn to speak like this


----------



## lazybloke (16 Sep 2016)

@winjim, well done - the most heart warming post I've read for ages


----------



## Pat "5mph" (16 Sep 2016)

Drago said:


> Winjim, is your little girl deaf, or are you deaf, or are you just teaching her sign as a clever and useful tool?


I didn't want to ask for fear of sounding an ignoramus, glad you did first 
Also @winjim how did you learn sign language? And it the one you taught your daughter the same signs that the hearing impeded use?


----------



## r04DiE (16 Sep 2016)

What a lovely post, and how lovely you are for taking the time to teach your little girl this extra skill. Worry less about delaying her speech, and concentrate on the fact that what you are teaching her will enable her to interact with so many more people. And they are all people, as I am sure you know.


----------



## summerdays (16 Sep 2016)

We learnt Makaton which is not BSL. And it was in a class at the local hospital.

It isn't only used by those with hearing/speech difficulties.


----------



## winjim (16 Sep 2016)

Drago said:


> Winjim, is your little girl deaf, or are you deaf, or are you just teaching her sign as a clever and useful tool?





Pat "5mph" said:


> I didn't want to ask for fear of sounding an ignoramus, glad you did first
> Also @winjim how did you learn sign language? And it the one you taught your daughter the same signs that the hearing impeded use?


None of us are at all hearing impaired or know any sign language beyond that which we've learned with our daughter. What we've been doing is http://www.singandsign.com. The idea is that babies can do actions before they learn to speak, so it gives you a means of communication that's just a bit more structured than the usual pointing and jabbering that they do.

We started doing it just because there was a class down the road and it was something to do with the baby while my wife was on mat leave. They sing songs while doing the signs, and there's a puppet cat named Jessie - stuff like that. There's an iPad app which she likes, too. It's not the same thing as BSL which is more of a complete language, although it does use some of the same signs. As I said, we were quite skeptical about it and just saw it as a fun playgroup type activity but she seems to have taken to it and you can have some sort of conversation with her by using the signs.

It may be that given this grounding she'll go on to learn BSL, which would be no bad thing.

It's fists in front of your chest with a pedalling motion for _bicycle_, by the way.


----------



## bonsaibilly (18 Sep 2016)

winjim said:


> We've been teaching our little girl baby sign language so she can communicate with us before she learns to speak. She knows basic things like asking for milk, asking where something is and asking for more. She also knows a few animals. The latest sign she's mastered is _bicycle_! So this morning, she asked to come out into the garden and look at my bike while I was getting ready. She's really interested in it and was signing away while I showed her. She's very clever, I think Father Christmas might be bringing something special in a few months.


Of course it's quite possible she wanted to see Daddy rather than his bike, but good skills all the same.


----------



## Turdus philomelos (20 Sep 2016)

If you teach your kiddy to sign apparently you wont go through the terrible two stage according the experts.,
Enjoy your time.


----------



## hatler (20 Sep 2016)

I reckon the 'terrible 2s' are a direct consequence of the inability of the child and parent to communicate. Learning to move the tongue around the mouth to get it into the right shapes to be able to make the right sounds is a tricky old business. It is clear (from things like signing) that before a child can do this there is a clarity of thought going on in their heads which far exceeds what adults think is going on, and as a result adults think the child has a significantly lower cognitive capability than is the case. From the child's perspective it must be unbelievably frustrating to understand perfectly well what the adults are all saying, but not being able to communicate what they think/feel/want/etc etc. No wonder they throw the odd tantrum.


----------



## winjim (20 Sep 2016)

User13710 said:


> It's not universally accepted, but there is a hypothesis that there's a 'critical period' for the acquisition of language in humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period_hypothesis. And it's often forgotten that 'language' doesn't mean 'speech'! It (language) includes all forms of signing including less-formal iconic signing. Teaching babies some signs is completely beneficial and has no drawbacks at all, despite what some people (usually those who have the old-fashioned belief that oral communication is the only valid kind) might think.


Exactly. Part of the basis for sing and sign is that babies already use sign language. They point and wave and shrug and do loads of things they copy from their parents. All we're doing is adding to her repertoire by giving her some more specific signs to use. And we have to take her lead, we introduce the signs and she picks some up and uses them, but doesn't others. So far the ones she uses the most are the ones which will gain her some sort of immediate reward. So there's _milk_ which is obvious, _more_ which she uses when she's eaten something tasty and wants more, and _where?_ which is when she's looking for something or someone, usually her mum.


hatler said:


> I reckon the 'terrible 2s' are a direct consequence of the inability of the child and parent to communicate. Learning to move the tongue around the mouth to get it into the right shapes to be able to make the right sounds is a tricky old business. It is clear (from things like signing) that before a child can do this there is a clarity of thought going on in their heads which far exceeds what adults think is going on, and as a result adults think the child has a significantly lower cognitive capability than is the case. From the child's perspective it must be unbelievably frustrating to understand perfectly well what the adults are all saying, but not being able to communicate what they think/feel/want/etc etc. No wonder they throw the odd tantrum.


We are hoping that through signing she will not have the same frustration as she might have were she unable to communicate so well.


bonsaibilly said:


> Of course it's quite possible she wanted to see Daddy rather than his bike, but good skills all the same.


I assure you it was the bicycle.  Not that I should kid myself that this love of bikes will last, she's only ever interested in the latest thing she's discovered, and once she's learned about it she's onto something new. So it's bikes this week but next week it'll be something different.


----------



## Sandra6 (26 Sep 2016)

ChrisV said:


> I wonder if teaching her sign language takes away the need to communicate verbally and may delay her speech?


There is a school of thought - and studies to back it up - that would suggest this to be true. But, as with all things, there are also studies to prove the opposite. So, who knows?! 
I tried it with my youngest, more as a favour to a friend who was running a class than out of any need to communicate with my child, but she didn't take to it. I , however, can sign twinkle twinkle and I can sing a rainbow. :-) 
My daughter had her own signs for showing she was hungry or tired -and no, I don't mean crying!! - by the time she was 9 months old and I think as we started the class after that she maybe got confused. 



Turdus philomelos said:


> If you teach your kiddy to sign apparently you wont go through the terrible two stage according the experts.,
> Enjoy your time.



The theory behind this is that tantrums are caused by an inability to articulate needs and wants, being able to sign would then remove that barrier. In reality some children have tantrums, others don't. You're either lucky or you're not. 

Whatever works for you and your child, I say.


----------



## Bariton (26 Sep 2016)

One of my grandchildren started signing before he learned to speak, he used to watch Mr Tumble (the man with the spotty bag on CBBC). He now speaks perfectly normal but still occasionally uses signing. His younger brother is on the severe end of the autistic spectrum and at 4 years old rarely speaks, but the two siblings seem to be able to communicate with ease.

Funny story: One of the grandkids came in from the garden very unhappy. After some strange signings that we didn't understand we asked the older brother what was wrong. "One of the dogs has done a poo in the garden and he doesn't like it!"


----------



## BrumJim (27 Oct 2016)

Taught baby signing to our little one too. Definately didn't stop the terrible twos stage, which is more about asserting independence than communicating. However it did stop a lot of the distress and confusion before then.

Baby signing is promoted as a chance for the child to control their environment, e.g. communicating if they are hungry, tired or have just filled their nappy. However we most enjoyed the part where they have learned stuff, and want to tell the parents what they can now recognise. E.g. pointing at a dog, and signing "Dog". Otherwise, most parents think the child is asking "What is that?", and parents say "Its a dog", whereas child is actually saying "Look, its one of those dogs that you were telling me about."


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (30 Oct 2016)

summerdays said:


> We learnt Makaton which is not BSL. And it was in a class at the local hospital.
> 
> It isn't only used by those with hearing/speech difficulties.



I started learning it when I worked in my local special needs school, but I never actually had to use it, as the kid it was intended for picked English up more quickly than we thought..... And then the family moved away again.



hatler said:


> I reckon the 'terrible 2s' are a direct consequence of the inability of the child and parent to communicate. Learning to move the tongue around the mouth to get it into the right shapes to be able to make the right sounds is a tricky old business. *It is clear (from things like signing) that before a child can do this there is a clarity of thought going on in their heads which far exceeds what adults think is going on, and as a result adults think the child has a significantly lower cognitive capability than is the case. *From the child's perspective it must be unbelievably frustrating to understand perfectly well what the adults are all saying, but not being able to communicate what they think/feel/want/etc etc. No wonder they throw the odd tantrum.



What I remember is that yes, there was a lot more going on in my head when I was very young than people realised...... Some might say that maybe it was me adding a narrative to my memories later, but there were a lot of normal, boring every day mundane things, etc, not the big events people go on about you remembering.........Maybe it was because I was brain damaged at 18 months old and effectively had to learn a lot of things twice, but I do remember a lot of things as a young kid, and having inner thought was definitely one of them, especially as I had trouble speaking for a long time.

I suggest that, as others have already said, your daughter could communicate a lot more if she wanted to, but she has what she needs right now, so doesn't have to.


----------

