# Water consumption



## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

I'm 6ft(ish) tall and currently weigh 14st (down from 15.5st this time last year) and am 36yrs old.

Since I've started to actively loose weight I've been using water as an appetite supressant, I didn't really plan to, I just realised I drink a least three litres of water during my working day.

I was tested for diabetes a few years back and am all clear, so it would appear I just really like drinking water.

BUT drinking a lot of water does tend to lead to lots of hedge stops, and I know mass consumption can cause problems...

Diet is currently roughly as follows:
Breakfast - two boiled eggs in hot sauce
Lunch - rice cakes or oat cakes with razor thin ham (no spread or sauce)
Afternoon energy boost - handful of dried fruit
Supper - whatever healthy meal my wife or I make. 

If I feel like I'm going hungry I don't have the energy to cycle, but I'm very mindful of taking in too many calories as I'm very keen to get rid of this old man's beer belly!

Any thoughts?


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## vickster (8 May 2012)

Do you have 2 eggs for breakfast every day? That sounds like a lot of cholesterol to me. I'd be swapping the eggs for porridge 4-5 days a week

Otherwise, not a great deal of calories if you are exercising too, not surprised you are a bit short of energy. I'd say you need more veg (and some fruit in the diet)?

Have you actually added up how many calories you have a day - 1800-2000 a day you should still lose weight no? But 1.5 stone in a year on that diet doesn't sound a lot. To lose the belly, maybe you need to do some core work in the gym or at home?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 May 2012)

To maintain your current weight (based on moderate activity 3-5days a week) You would be looking at consuming 3000cals ish a day. (based on harris benedicy forumula)

Obviously to lose you'd need to factor in calorie deficit and expenditure during exercise. I can tell you(Non professionally) that you are eating nowhere near enough, there would barely be 1200 cals per day there.

Eggs and cholesterol: unless you have high cholesterol there is no real issue these days. That myth lasted long enough..


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## MattHB (8 May 2012)

Green tea is a great appetite suppressant and its also suggested that it helps the body to metabolise fat. I've converted to great tea about 3 weeks ago and can vouch for the first statement, but am still working on the second.

Stay off the fats, they slow the digestion down and for me anyway, make me feel lethargic. 

If your peeing a lot reduce water intake on the bike, but be careful to take in carbs in small amounts if your struggling. Gel pouches are amazing for for me, make me feel like I'm cheating! Don't worry how much you eat on big ride days, the boost in metabolism makes up for it, but be careful not to over compensate on small ride days.

Remember as you loose weight the less calories your body needs to run, and the more efficient it's likely to be on rides.

Bear belly can be caused by weak pelvic muscles causing the pelvis to rotate forward thus creating a bear gut, even when there's not much fat there. Palates can help this (I'm about to start for the same reason). Alcohol (for me) is the biggest cause of my belly/boob fat.. Also, first fat on is last fat to go.. And for most of us blokes that's belly/boob!


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## vickster (8 May 2012)

Maybe not cholesterol...must be constipated though (although the 3l of water will help there), eggs bind me up!


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

I only started cycling regularly a couple of months ago and the first stone fell off so quick it worried me a little bit!

I do have the eggs every day, I was thinking they'd be good for the protein, I'm mindful of the potential heart damage, although I'm finding conflicting reports on that aspect, like this one fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/food-myths-debunked-eating-eggs-raises-your-cholesterol-level.html


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> To maintain your current weight (based on moderate activity 3-5days a week) You would be looking at consuming 3000cals ish a day. (based on harris benedicy forumula)
> 
> Obviously to lose you'd need to factor in calorie deficit and expenditure during exercise. I can tell you(Non professionally) that you are eating nowhere near enough, there would barely be 1200 cals per day there.
> 
> Eggs and cholesterol: unless you have high cholesterol there is no real issue these days. That myth lasted long enough..



Thanks. I'm trying to keep calorific energy boosting as natural as possible, hence the yummy dried fruit.


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

vickster said:


> Maybe not cholesterol...must be constipated though (although the 3l of water will help there), eggs bind me up!



All this fruit and fibre deals with that issue...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Thanks. I'm trying to keep calorific energy boosting as natural as possible, hence the yummy dried fruit.


There is very little value in a handful of dried fruit.


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## vickster (8 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> All this fruit and fibre deals with that issue...


 
A handful of fruit...? Don't see a lot of fibre, there's not much in rice or oat cakes?


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

Thanks MattHB - I don't drink a lot of tea or coffee but have been fancying trying green tea for a while.

The current glut of homebrew should run out soon, that should also help the belly!


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## vickster (8 May 2012)

So that's not all the calories, if you are glugging beer! There's like 300 in a pint


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

vickster said:


> So that's not all the calories, if you are glugging beer! There's like 300 in a pint



Only a couple a night, but I'm only burning an extra 500 a day with cycling! Ah crap!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 May 2012)

Andrew: When you wish to listen and be somewhat serious. I'm happy to help as much as I can.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 May 2012)

vickster said:


> So that's not all the calories, if you are glugging beer! There's like 300 in a pint


Ha, I knew Andrew was cheating! Guys and their half truths


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Andrew: When you wish to listen and be somewhat serious. I'm happy to help as much as I can.



The time for seriousness has very much come.

At the moment I'm riding three miles to work and three miles back Monday to Friday, and eight miles at lunchtime two or three times a week. I also try and do thirty(ish) miles at the weekend, childcare permitting.

I'd really appreciate the help.

Do you use Endomondo? My username is Andrew-Culture.


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## mcshroom (8 May 2012)

I'm not the best person to follow considering my poor will power to stick to things, but one thing that does seem to help me lose weight is to log all my meals on myfitnesspal (it's free) so I get a realistic view of how many calories I've actually consumed in a day (the exercize thingys overdo the calories IMHO).

Unfortunately I've fallen of the wagon over the last month and really need to get back to a diet again


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## MattHB (8 May 2012)

vickster said:


> So that's not all the calories, if you are glugging beer! There's like 300 in a pint



This really is the key thing to change as far as I can see. That and, when you're ready, push up your weekend rides if you can.


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

Thanks. I used Spark People last year and it was useful for raising my awareness.

I'm very fortunate that my wife has always abhorred processed food in all its forms, so quitting what might traditionally be seen as junk food isn't a problem as I don't enjoy eating it anyway.

That's not to say our allotment 'good life' style living is a pathway to weightloss though! I've fairly conclusively proven that with my paunch!


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## Andrew_Culture (8 May 2012)

MattHB said:


> This really is the key thing to change as far as I can see. That and, when you're ready, push up your weekend rides if you can.



I know I'm not the first cyclist to spawn, but it does make it harder to find time to ride. I plan to lengthen my morning commute to squeeze in a few extra miles.


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## MattHB (8 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I know I'm not the first cyclist to spawn, but it does make it harder to find time to ride. I plan to lengthen my morning commute to squeeze in a few extra miles.



That's a good idea. Or night rides are lovely too


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## Philtofit (8 May 2012)

Andrew, looking at your endomondo workout's, you may not be using auto pause; which is having an adverse effect on your average speed on some of your workouts. If this is the case, it can be done via settings / workout settings. Whilst I'm interfering, what type of bike are you riding. I'm looking at doing the Alton Water loop as part of a long ride, can it be done on a road bike.

Phil.


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## Andrew_Culture (9 May 2012)

Phil - I switched off auto-pause last week for reasons I can't now remember, so I have switched it back on.

I ride an ancient Claude Butler tourer most of the time, but sometimes an mtb. I went round Alton Water with slicks on the mtb and it was terrible, I don't think you'd have much fun on the gravel, rough dirt and mud on a road bike 

What is your username on Endomondo?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (9 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> The time for seriousness has very much come.
> 
> At the moment I'm riding three miles to work and three miles back Monday to Friday, and eight miles at lunchtime two or three times a week. I also try and do thirty(ish) miles at the weekend, childcare permitting.
> 
> ...


I do but barely use it. Torn between EM,Strava and MapMyRide 
----------------------------------------------
(The info below does not count for muscle mass which can change BMR significantly,tis a guide only)
I took


This said:


> I'm 6ft(ish) tall and currently weigh 14st (down from 15.5st this time last year) and am 36yrs old.


 And put it into This

The resulting BMR (Basal metabolic rate if you stayed in bed all day) is 1956.68 (calories)

To calculate your daily calorie needs you need to multiply your BMR: 1956 x the level of activity



> If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
> If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
> If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
> If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
> If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9


The eventual figure is what you would consume per day to maintain the same weight. If you are #3 moderately active then 1956x1.55 = _*3031cals.*_

------------------------------------------------
Since your aim is to lose weight you need to take a small deficit off this figure. Most people would start at -500 until plateau hits (stop losing weight) 500per day deficit over a week is roughly 1lb loss on it's own before you factor in cycling or whatever activity you do.

I worked out the caloric value of your daily eating roughly. 600 cals per day (before evening meal) Add in a couple beers which have no nutritional value (empty calories really) you would still be barely scraping 1800. It's little wonder you are struggling.

This may not make sense but believe it or not you actually need to eat to lose weight. The body simply won't allow any visceral(which packs in around your organs) or subcutaneous fat(the horrible stuff below the surface of our skin) to be burned off whilst you are essentially starving yourself,it's a basic yet somewhat complicated survival mechanism. You've heard of the terms "hitting the wall" or "bonk"? Both of these are related in a way,when you become glycogen depleted and feel faint,nauseous and struggle to maintain pace,you are only relying on fat at this point,it's the same survival mechanism that prevents weight loss when under-eating.
---------------------------------------------------------
I've missed bits probably


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## Andrew_Culture (9 May 2012)

I was bonking really badly when I started up this year's cycling but put it down to being woefully unfit, I think I know better now. Today I had a handful of dried fruit to pep me up half an hour before riding home but it just gave me a stitch!

I'm going to use this thread to keep track of my diet for a few days as perception of calorific intake is often way off reality!


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## Andrew_Culture (9 May 2012)

DIET
7am 4x small boiled eggs with splash of hot sauce - 300kcal

8am 9am 750ml fresh black coffee with no sugar

10am natural liquorice bar - 120kcal

11.30am Crave box poppadoms - 130kcal

2pm 6x small oatcakes with 3 slices of wafer thin ham - 410kcal

3pm small handful of dried fruit

4.30pm Crave box brazil nuts & dark chocolate drops - 150kcal

6.30pm homemade chicken broth

9.30pm frozen yoghurt - 134kcal

TOTAL - 2000ish?

I do feel a little better for having a higher intake!


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## Philtofit (9 May 2012)

Endomondo username Phil Cooper


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 May 2012)

You could easily get another 500-600 in there


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

I forgot to mention calories burned through exercise:

Cycling - 318kcal


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You could easily get another 500-600 in there



We made a batch of honey / peanut butter / oat / nuts bars last night; a couple of those should add at least 500kcal to my intake today


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## GetAGrip (10 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I do but barely use it. Torn between EM,Strava and MapMyRide
> ----------------------------------------------
> (The info below does not count for muscle mass which can change BMR significantly,tis a guide only)
> I took And put it into This
> ...


I know your post was not directed at me, but.........I really needed to read this information.........again. Iv'e got caught up in other factors, such as stopping smoking, exercise and like millions of others in the present climate the general pressures of life. I seem to have got into a rut lately and have been close to giving up. I needed to 'refresh' my approach.
Reading your post reminded me to chill out a bit mentally, and to actually eat more (healthy) food and keep up with the cycling and walking. Thanks .
Sorry Andrew, you can have your thread back now


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

I kinda know how you feel, I have to crowbar exercise into my life otherwise it just doesn't happen!


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## vickster (10 May 2012)

Do you actually eat any vegetables or fresh fruit ??!!  No five a day there ...you didn't mention all the snacking in your original post, quite a lot of sugary (processed) stuff...and 4 eggs for breakfast (bleurgh I can't bear boiled eggs  )

How far did you cycle for your 318 kcals - info I have seen points to a max of 40 kcals per mile unless racing or going up very steep hills


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## gavroche (10 May 2012)

all this talk about calories,fat etc..... makes me feel dizzy. Just eat sensibly and exercise, that's all you need otherwise you are going to become obsessed with it all and forget to have a life!


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

I eat tons of vegetables and dried fruit (I know I should eat more fresh fruit). Yesterday was an exceptional day for snacking, I guess because it was my first day back in the saddle after a few days rest. On the whole my evening meals consist of whatever has come from the allotment or in the veg box we get, my wife generally baulks at the idea of eating food that is made in a factory, which helps me on my mission quite a lot!

Yesterday's calories were from 4.37miles (average speed 13.6mpg) to work in the morning and 4.18miles (average speed 13.2mph) in the evening.


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

Philtofit said:


> Endomondo username Phil Cooper


I think I found you, assuming you're the Phil Cooper with a Colchester postcode


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

gavroche said:


> all this talk about calories,fat etc..... makes me feel dizzy. Just eat sensibly and exercise, that's all you need otherwise you are going to become obsessed with it all and forget to have a life!


 
My wife's rolling eyes each time I mention cycling serve well at keeping my feet on the ground


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## Philtofit (10 May 2012)

Yep that's me.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (10 May 2012)

gavroche said:


> all this talk about calories,fat etc..... makes me feel dizzy. Just eat sensibly and exercise, that's all you need otherwise you are going to become obsessed with it all and forget to have a life!


If it was that simple the world would have zero mordibly obese inhabitants.


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## Andrew_Culture (10 May 2012)

Okay, here's today's tally:

7am 2x boiled eggs - 150kcal

8.30am homemade energy oat bar

10am Graze box dried fruit & seeds collection - 100kcal

Noon 5 ricecakes with wafer thin ham - 350kcal

2pm homemade energy oat bar

3pm Graze box dried fruit thing - 120kcal

4pm Big handful of dried fruit

6.30pm Homemade tuna tomato pasta dish with a desert spoon full of grated cheese

Evening 2x homebrew beers 600kcal (ish)

Cycling calories burned - 826kcal


I guess I'm a bit closer to my 3000kcal target, but I know the beer doesn't help, but I fell off my bike today


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## lejogger (11 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I know the beer doesn't help, but I fell off my bike today


I'm no expert Andrew, but a couple of beers isn't going to kill you. Nor is an occasional dairy milk or a pizza! 
I think it's really easy to get carried away with watching what you eat, and while it is important to get enough fresh fruit and veg and the correct vitamins and nutrients, it's actually pretty difficult to not get everything you need without trying too hard.
Yes to lose weight you need to reduce your net calorie intake but I would recommend doing it by exercising more, not just by eating less. You really don't need to look into it this closely unless you're intending to make the 2012 Olympic squad!

I'm 6'0, and I'm currently weighing just under 12 stone. Before I started cycling I was over 13 and I've been down to just over 11 if I've been cycling a lot and on a drink detox!
When I'm at work I'll cycle 9.5 miles to work on an empty stomach and then have a big bowl of cereal at my desk. I'll usually have a homemade soup with a brown roll for lunch - followed by a standard chocolate bar - then a main meal in the evening. This can be anything from pasta to a home made curry, to a roast. If I'm peckish in the evening I'll have some crackers with a bit of cheese. I'll also go to the pub after footy on a Monday and have 3-4 beers, I'll do the pub quiz on a Thur and have 4 beers and I'll always have a beer after a round of golf and maybe a bottle of wine over the weekend and a few snacks thrown in for good measure.
It's certainly not what medical experts would recommend, but I'll play 90 minutes of football on a monday, I'll have at least 1 round of golf and I'll probably average 130-200 miles a week on the bike at a pace averaging 18mph+. As long as you're not hammering the calories or the saturated fats then within reason eat what you like. It's the exercise that keeps you fit, stong and healthy. If you try to lose weight by eating less then you may get thin, but you'll also get weak.

I appreciate that it's not always possible to invest huge amounts of time in exercise but I find that my commute takes me barely longer on the bike than in the car and I'll burn close to 800 calories a day just getting to work and back. If you've only got 3 miles to work try to add on a loop that increases the distance. Then you don't have to make time at another point to go out again.

It's only my opinion, but I'm not an advocate of those chastising you for an evening beer. I can understand why Bradley Wiggins doesn't allow himself a beer if he's got a TdF to ride, but in the grand scheme of things, if you're offsetting it with a couple of extra miles it will do you no harm at all, and you certainly shouldn't be feeling guilty for it.


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## Andrew_Culture (11 May 2012)

I've been making an effort to extend the commute, and love it.

I'd like to see the belly shrink, but I think I've left it too late (I'm 36 next month).

Ultimately all this exercise is making me feel great regardless of any targets 

Beer is good


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 May 2012)

lejogger said:


> I'm no expert Andrew, but a couple of beers isn't going to kill you. Nor is an occasional dairy milk or a pizza!
> I think it's really easy to get carried away with watching what you eat, and while it is important to get enough fresh fruit and veg and the correct vitamins and nutrients, it's actually pretty difficult to not get everything you need without trying too hard.
> Yes to lose weight you need to reduce your net calorie intake but I would recommend doing it by exercising more, not just by eating less. You really don't need to look into it this closely unless you're intending to make the 2012 Olympic squad!


Diet is 90% of the solution. Eating less (In Andrew's case) as you probably missed would be devastating to say the least.



> If you try to lose weight by eating less then you may get thin, but you'll also get weak.


How would one get "weaker"? Please explain. Again I refer you to Andrew the OP,not eating anywhere near enough to begin with.



> It's only my opinion, but I'm not an advocate of those chastising you for an evening beer.


It certainly won't be helping. It's not to say that you should never have a couple beers or a glass of wine but just not as often. It's perfectly fine that people assume drinking beers is made ok by riding a few extra miles. In your head maybe,in reality nothing of the sort - It would technically put you in a larger calorie deficit.


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## lejogger (11 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Diet is 90% of the solution. Eating less (In Andrew's case) as you probably missed would be devastating to say the least.


I didn't miss that at all. My comment trying to state that eating less was NOT the answer and that I ate pretty much what I liked and exercised more to balance it. A lot of people think losing weight or fat is all about reducing food whereas you can lose weight by eating more of the right foods and exercising more.



T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> How would one get "weaker"? Please explain. Again I refer you to Andrew the OP,not eating anywhere near enough to begin with.


Food is fuel. It makes total sense that someone who eats well and exercises well would be stronger than someone who didn't eat and didn't exercise.



T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> It certainly won't be helping. It's not to say that you should never have a couple beers or a glass of wine but just not as often. It's perfectly fine that people assume drinking beers is made ok by riding a few extra miles. In your head maybe,in reality nothing of the sort - It would technically put you in a larger calorie deficit.


Of course it won't help but what my whole post was intending to suggest, but perhaps wasn't well structured enough, is that for us mere mortals, exercise and food is all a balancing act. 99.9% of us could all do things better by exercising more or eating better but when the goal is only to lose a few pounds, not win the tour de france then why completely avoid the things that make us happy? I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to have the physical build and definition of Fabian Cancellara... I've sacrificed that because I enjoy chocolate, pizza and beer... But I'm still bloody fit and healthy. It's not about one or the other. Compromise is an option.


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## lejogger (11 May 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I've been making an effort to extend the commute, and love it.
> 
> I'd like to see the belly shrink, but I think I've left it too late (I'm 36 next month).
> 
> ...


I'm 32 next month and I'm fitter than I've ever been. I don't intend to stop improving.
One of my club mates was 46 last year when he smashed his own 24 hour time trial record with 541 miles that he'd previously set about 13 years earlier!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (11 May 2012)

lejogger said:


> I didn't miss that at all. My comment trying to state that eating less was NOT the answer and that I ate pretty much what I liked and exercised more to balance it. A lot of people think losing weight or fat is all about reducing food whereas you can lose weight by eating more of the right foods and exercising more.


You're right it isn't all about eating less but in many cases it is,combined with getting off your ass. In this instance it's about eating _more_ to lose weight and improve energy levels to fuel the exercise. If you aren't eating enough or are eating too much,exercise is pretty pointless.



> Food is fuel. It makes total sense that someone who eats well and exercises well would be stronger than someone who didn't eat and didn't exercise.


What reference are you making? Stronger - strength or Stronger - better?




> 99.9% of us could all do things better by exercising more or eating better but when the goal is only to lose a few pounds, not win the tour de france then why completely avoid the things that make us happy? I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to have the physical build and definition of Fabian Cancellara... I've sacrificed that because I enjoy chocolate, pizza and beer... But I'm still bloody fit and healthy. It's not about one or the other. Compromise is an option.


There is a distinct relationship between things that make us happy and things that make us unhappy. The trick is in moderation which for most removes temptation to binge. Alcohol,chocolate,cakes whatever your vice is - moderate it (read: deserve it!) and work from there.


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## lejogger (11 May 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You're right it isn't all about eating less but in many cases it is,combined with getting off your ass. In this instance it's about eating _more_ to lose weight and improve energy levels to fuel the exercise. If you aren't eating enough or are eating too much,exercise is pretty pointless.


I completely agree with you.



T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> What reference are you making? Stronger - strength or Stronger - better?


Both. It's the same point as above. Eat more, exercise more, and get stronger through exercise in both a physical and more competence sense.



T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> There is a distinct relationship between things that make us happy and things that make us unhappy. The trick is in moderation which for most removes temptation to binge. Alcohol,chocolate,cakes whatever your vice is - moderate it (read: deserve it!) and work from there.


Agree again. It just seemed like some people were insinuating that the whole reason Andrew wasn't making the progress he wanted to was down to a couple of pints of homebrew.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 May 2012)

lejogger said:


> I'm 32 next month and I'm fitter than I've ever been. I don't intend to stop improving.
> One of my club mates was 46 last year when he smashed his own 24 hour time trial record with 541 miles that he'd previously set about 13 years earlier!



I'm fitter and stronger than ever but no more lithe, but in reality being fit and healthy feels more important than a flat belly.

That being said I'm not going to stop trying for a flat belly 

You have all been very inspiring!


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## Andrew_Culture (1 Jun 2012)

Here's a quick update; I'm getting closer to my calorie target and feel stronger (although that could be getting used to daily cycling), but I've gained ten pounds. I'm not overly bothered though


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## lejogger (1 Jun 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Here's a quick update; I'm getting closer to my calorie target and feel stronger (although that could be getting used to daily cycling), but I've gained ten pounds. I'm not overly bothered though


 I would try not to be too weight focused. Feeling stronger, fitter and healthier should be your main target, and increasing your capacity to exercise more will yield either weight loss or a change of body shape in the longer term ,with muscle replacing fat in the right areas.


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Jun 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Here's a quick update; I'm getting closer to my calorie target and feel stronger (although that could be getting used to daily cycling), but I've gained ten pounds. I'm not overly bothered though


 How did you manage that? You recently posted your clothes were loose fitting, now you have gained the weight again? I thought I was the only one capable to put on a stone in a week


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## Andrew_Culture (2 Jun 2012)

I'm following the advice of trying to eat 3000 kcal a day, I was only consuming around 2000 beforehand.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Jun 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I'm following the advice of trying to eat 3000 kcal a day, I was only consuming around 2000 beforehand.


3000 was HB forumula to maintain your current weight. You need to create a deficit like I said.

No wonder you're putting weight on...


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## Andrew_Culture (2 Jun 2012)

I should have clarified - 3000 was to maintain my weight, I've been aiming to consume 2500


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Jun 2012)

You're doing something terribly wrong to gain 10lbs on 2500


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## defy-one (2 Jun 2012)

2500 is the recommended daily intake for a man - how can you have gained 10lbs???


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## Andrew_Culture (2 Jun 2012)

Shite scales probably! I shall re-check


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## lulubel (3 Jun 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You're doing something terribly wrong to gain 10lbs on 2500


 
Not if he's been undereating for a long time. If the body's been dealing with an apparent famine for a while, it will use most of the calorie increase to lay down more fat stores, and only allow a little to go towards increased energy. You should expect an initial gain in this situation. Once the body settles at its new maintenance level (and realises the famine is definitely over), you'll be able to start reversing the gain.

The worst thing you could possibly do now is start eating less again because the body will treat it as a return to famine conditions and start hanging on to its fat stores again.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (3 Jun 2012)

lulubel said:


> Not if he's been undereating for a long time. If the body's been dealing with an apparent famine for a while, it will use most of the calorie increase to lay down more fat stores, and only allow a little to go towards increased energy. You should expect an initial gain in this situation. Once the body settles at its new maintenance level (and realises the famine is definitely over), you'll be able to start reversing the gain.
> 
> The worst thing you could possibly do now is start eating less again because the body will treat it as a return to famine conditions and start hanging on to its fat stores again.


I'd been meaning to come back to the thread after thinking about it(and posting pretty much your post elsewhere). 

But yeah, when you consume so little then start eating somewhat normally again,the natural response is weight gain as your body is expecting to starve again soon. It's a handy survival tool but the majority of dieters get it all wrong then wonder why they end up bigger than before. I've made no secret of the fact I did it then realised the mistake - put more on only to lose it again sustainably.

I take it back,you haven't done anything wrong Andrew - but you need to keep up what you're doing and ride out the storm.


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## albion (3 Jun 2012)

Calorie watching is a an inexact science.
Digestive systems are quite a handful so I have to say poo poo.


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Jun 2012)

Thanks again you lot, above all I'm really enjoying this whole process


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## Andrew_Culture (7 Jun 2012)

Another quick update - my lycra that once was tight on my biceps is now baggy! I'm fine with loosing a bit of arm mass as I can build muscles far too easily and just don't want them!

Also my belly has changed shape; it still sticks out, but now only in the middle around my belly button, the, er, side bits have gone!


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## Andrew_Culture (26 Jun 2012)

_Another update..._

I tracked every bit of food and drink that passed my lips for a few weeks and have plucked out a week at random here, hopefully I've managed to attach the PDF report to this post, but the summary is:
DATE KCAL
07/06/12 - 1591
08/06/12 - 1497
09/06/12 - 2798
10/06/12 - 2399
11/06/12 - 2009
12/06/12 - 2046
13/06/12 - 2510
(My god I can tell which days my in-laws were spoiling me!)


In the same period I cycled 91.62 miles burning a theoretical 6214kcal

Looks like I'm still struggling to hit 2500 calories a day, and I've been making a real effort to eat a LOT!


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## fossyant (26 Jun 2012)

Carry on cycling then !


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## Andrew_Culture (27 Jun 2012)

fossyant said:


> Carry on cycling then !



Huzzah!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Jul 2012)

Still going well?


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jul 2012)

Yup, I'm feeling much better for eating properly, and if people would stop buying me beer I'm sure a bit more belly will drop off! My guy only really hangs out when I slouch now, which is major progress.


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## lejogger (17 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Yup, I'm feeling much better for eating properly, and if people would stop buying me beer I'm sure a bit more belly will drop off! My guy only really hangs out when I slouch now, which is major progress.


your GUY hangs out? Are you referring to Andrew jnr? You can get locked up for behaviour like that


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jul 2012)

Well the gods of CycleChat told me to go commando!


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## amaferanga (17 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> In the same period I cycled 91.62 miles burning a theoretical 6214kcal


 
I think you're hugely overestimating the calories that you're burning, but if you're losing weight anyway then it probably doesn't matter that much.


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## lejogger (17 Jul 2012)

amaferanga said:


> I think you're hugely overestimating the calories that you're burning, but if you're losing weight anyway then it probably doesn't matter that much.


I agree that there is probably a bit of an overestimation, maybe not a huge one. I work on the basis that if I cycle at 90% effort (depending on which bike, that's averaging between 18-22mph) over 10miles or approx 30 minutes then I'm going to burn around 500 calories. 
For 90 miles I'll therefore expect to burn 4500 calories not 6000+

I may be being a little conservative, but it's better to be that way if weight loss is the goal - to ensure you're not over-replenishing.

It very much depends how much effort you're exerting and what your heart rate is. For weight loss and fat burn a steadier speed at a lower heart rate is generally accepted as being more productive.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jul 2012)

That's calories according to Endomondo, although to follow up one of the points above I never dawdle 

If I could afford to I'd get a heartrate monitor to make things a bit more accurate


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## amaferanga (17 Jul 2012)

lejogger said:


> I agree that there is probably a bit of an overestimation, maybe not a huge one. I work on the basis that if I cycle at 90% effort (depending on which bike, that's averaging between 18-22mph) over 10miles or approx 30 minutes then I'm going to burn around 500 calories.
> For 90 miles I'll therefore expect to burn 4500 calories not 6000+
> 
> I may be being a little conservative, but it's better to be that way if weight loss is the goal - to ensure you're not over-replenishing.
> ...


 
1000 kCal/hour would mean riding at about 270W. Most people couldn't ride at 270W for 4.5 hours.


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## amaferanga (17 Jul 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> That's calories according to Endomondo, although to follow up one of the points above I never dawdle
> 
> If I could afford to I'd get a heartrate monitor to make things a bit more accurate


 
A HR monitor would make the calorie guess different, not necessarily closer to reality.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jul 2012)

amaferanga said:


> A HR monitor would make the calorie guess different, not necessarily closer to reality.


 
Duly noted, thanks.


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## lejogger (17 Jul 2012)

amaferanga said:


> 1000 kCal/hour would mean riding at about 270W. Most people couldn't ride at 270W for 4.5 hours.


Without having a power sensor attached to the garmin it's difficult to tell. It's so inaccurate using just the device alone. For example for my commute today my garmin said I'd burned 543Cal while the same ride at the same speed last week on the same device stated 315. That's 30 minutes of cycling on my heavy CX bike at an average of 17mph.
I do the same route on my carbon bike last week as well and that only took 26 and a half minutes averaging 20mph and that apparently used 364 calories.
I don't understand how a garmin can work any of this out without a HR, cadence or power sensor attached.


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Aug 2012)

I just weighed myself and am shocked to find that I'm 82kg! Which if I've done my sums correctly is 12st 9lb!


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## lejogger (13 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I just weighed myself and am shocked to find that I'm 82kg! Which if I've done my sums correctly is 12st 9lb!



Great job! Are you feeling fitter and slimmer as well?


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Aug 2012)

I'm even more shocked at the reaction posting details of my weightloss on Twitter and Facebook has had!


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Aug 2012)

lejogger said:


> Great job! Are you feeling fitter and slimmer as well?


 
I feel awesome, apart from this nagging passion to buy a better bike  I've done about 12,000 miles so far this year, and almost all of those are on a mid-70s touring bike! It's a lovely bike but I've fooled myself into thinking I need something with thinner tyres and more aggressive geometry to progress!


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## lejogger (13 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I feel awesome, apart from this nagging passion to buy a better bike  I've done about 12,000 miles so far this year, and almost all of those are on a mid-70s touring bike! It's a lovely bike but I've fooled myself into thinking I need something with thinner tyres and more aggressive geometry to progress!



Light, flashy, expensive bikes make you lazy and unfit!

You should still most definitely get one though, but never as a replacement for what you already have. 

The tourer/winter/commuter is the bread and butter. It's what you struggle through the winter and the bad weather on. It builds your fitness better than you can imagine, until summer comes around, you get blessed with sunshine on a weekend and you take to the roads on your carbon and it feels like you're riding on air!

You can't possibly begin to appreciate everything that's so great about a best bike unless you spend most of your time riding a much worse one


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## Andrew_Culture (13 Aug 2012)

Holy crap, I meant to say 1200 miles, not 12,000!

Sadly the tourer has to go so I can pay my local Bike Doctor to finish my single speed build. Having just one gear for a while will certainly make me appreciate my Giant defy 2 when I eventually get it!


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## lejogger (13 Aug 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Holy crap, I meant to say 1200 miles, not 12,000!


 
I did wonder about that figure! I cycle a lot, and am nowhere near 12,000!


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jan 2013)

I thought I'd chuck in an update. My weight is 86kg / 13.5st now, which I think is about right for someone my size and age. I've still got a bit of a belly but my overall body shape has totally changed in the eight months since I made the first post on this thread. I've lost all my 'side flab', meaning I'm not as wide as I once was. I've lost most of my bulky upper body muscle and I can almost see my cheekbones again.

I don't drink water as an appetite suppressant these days, I drink it when I'm thirsty. I'd still like to see the belly go, but I'm much more interested in increasing my average speed over long rides than loosing weight these days.

I did a sixty mile ride at the weekend and it didn't even register on my legs the next day, and THAT my friends is something I am very pleased with indeed.

My diet hasn't changed much, but sometimes I eat more than others, I guess I'm getting better at knowing what I need.


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Jan 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I feel awesome, apart from this nagging passion to buy a better bike  I've done about 12,000 miles so far this year, and almost all of those are on a mid-70s touring bike! It's a lovely bike but I've fooled myself into thinking I need something with thinner tyres and more aggressive geometry to progress!


 
The old tourer is long gone, and I managed just under 3000 miles by the time 2012 ended.


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