# Chainring in the groin.



## BlackPanther (14 Feb 2012)

I had a comment at work today. It's not something I've really thought about, but it was pointed out to me that on my Strada (a high racer with the pedals only slightly behind the front of the front wheel) the chain-rings are at groin height....or even worse, they're at small children's face height!

Therefore, if a pedestrian stepped in front of me, and I was on the middle ring, the large ring would be ideally placed to do some serious damage....assuming I didn't hit them pedal first. I just wondered if anyone's ever considered this? Maybe manufacturers should fit guards?


----------



## Flying Dodo (14 Feb 2012)

A car going into a child's face would do far more damage. And sadly, such incidents are far more likely to happen than a pedestrian walking in front of your specific bike and being hit.

Far better to do something about the cars.


----------



## Tigerbiten (14 Feb 2012)

I find that you tend catch yourself on the front ring, not someone else .......... 

ICE do a chainguard which is an optinal extra.
I've fitted it to to my new Trike, not as a chainguard but as a very good point to padlock a cable to after its gone through a front wheel/around a post/etc/etc.


----------



## CopperCyclist (14 Feb 2012)

Additionally, I think a pedal strike is much more likely. Unless you're coasting with h cranks vertical, the winow of 'bare ring' would be (I imagine) relatively low.

And tbh, any bike, or any vehicle hitting a pedestrian is going to do some damage no matter what.


----------



## Nantmor (14 Feb 2012)

On the other hand, you could make a nasty mess of a car body panel. As it happens, I have a Bacchetta very similar to yours.


----------



## markg0vbr (14 Feb 2012)

i have had all this with a bike club i don't ride with, i went for a meet and great, or in this case "there dangerous them, you will gash some ones leg with that spinning around, you will have to fit some kind of guard if you want to ride with the club" just about every anti recumbent myth was trotted out. i dont ride with them, did i mention that?
non of them had ever ridden one and most had never seen one in the flesh, you will even get people who have not ridden a bike for years bashing on about how deadly they are.

i have ridden with a lot of recumbent and mixed bike groups all with out mishap, remember on a recumbent you are sat looking where you are going not at three squarer foot of tarmac in-front of you this makes you a safer rider, you can stop faster than a df bike this makes you a safer rider and as you are very odd looking people will see you rather than look through you, this makes you safer as well.

there are chain guards if you think you need one but they cost and add weight. i dont ride with that bike club you know!


----------



## Edwards80 (14 Feb 2012)

I'd stick this on the front. Should be less offensive to the third party than a chainringed face/gentlmans area.


----------



## swscotland bentrider (14 Feb 2012)

Last summer I had to walk my bike through a busy part of London. The risk of someone walking in to the chainset seemed to me to be quite high. I made sure the chain was on the big ring and covered it with a carrier bag. After three weeks and 1000 miles it was very dirty! My new Fuego came with a chainset guard which I will not remove. 

Markg0vbr, the only time I have seen an injury from this component was a guy in France on a DF. He ran himself over with his own bike (at walking pace) Nevertheless the injury was severe. He needed hospital treatment and we came over all funny when he removed the bandage and showed us!


----------



## riggsbie (15 Feb 2012)

Now where can I get a little boxing glove on a spring ?

That must the ideal chainring guard !


----------



## henshaw11 (15 Feb 2012)

"you will gash some ones leg with that spinning around, you will have to fit some kind of guard if you want to ride with the club"

Not exactly unreasonable, sh*t happens and a chainring's gonna hurt !
As mentioned, when wheeling through pedestrians it's a bit of a liability - and if your bike's parked up somewhere there's the possible of someone being dopey and walking into it.

The weight of a chainguard's pretty insignificant - I've a more enclosed type on the front of my Speendmachine (as supplied from HPVelo.) and it's just formed sheet steel - ISTR they're fitted as standard, with a bash-ring type as an alternative . The ICE version is more minimalist and looks prettier, but it probably works ok.

Pretty sure that the BHPC have a chain(ring)guard as a mandatory requirement for racing.


----------



## smutchin (15 Feb 2012)

I would be instinctively inclined towards fitting a chainring guard, but thinking about it, my reasons would be purely based on the same kind of specious "common sense" thought process that advocates certain other types of cycling safety equipment, so maybe on reflection I wouldn't bother. 

d.


----------



## Nantmor (15 Feb 2012)

It says a lot for cyclists that this thread is all about the danger we might present to others. Its only me who spoils it by mentioning cars.
If the chainwheel is noticed by motorists it must get us a bit more respect on the road. It also helps that feet first is a good way to absorb an impact.


----------



## Flying Dodo (15 Feb 2012)

Read comment #2 above.


----------



## Nantmor (15 Feb 2012)

Sorry, I forgot that. But you are making a different point.


----------



## MattHB (15 Feb 2012)

You don't need a boxing glove, you need a gun sight!


----------



## BenM (16 Feb 2012)

ummm - on my 'bent, when wheeling it, I point the pedals fore/aft... no chance of chain ring contact then. Similarly when riding on the shared paths and encountering people/animals, one foot is right forwards.

Thinking about it, on one occasion I used the fear, in the mind of a yob, of what was about to happen to his gentleman bits to make him get out of the way - he had jumped into my path deliberately trying to force me to stop... I guess the sight of the chain ring and spinning cranks aiming right at the soft and squidgy part of his anatomy had some bearing on the speed at which he changed his mind about stopping me  

B.


----------



## markg0vbr (16 Feb 2012)

smutchin said:


> I would be instinctively inclined towards fitting a chainring guard, but thinking about it, my reasons would be purely based on the same kind of specious "common sense" thought process that advocates certain other types of cycling safety equipment, so maybe on reflection I wouldn't bother.
> 
> d.


you almost mentioned helmets but i think we got away with it. 

that is close to what i think, if all the club riders had full rear mudguards to stop crap being flipped up in to my face, i would consider fitting a chain guard.


----------



## smutchin (16 Feb 2012)




----------



## mickle (16 Feb 2012)

If the forward crank is anywhere between horizontal and aiming upwards it'll be forced backwards by the impact (freewheel) and it's only the RH crank which might offer any real protection from impact with the ring anyway, the left hand crank/pedal is way over there on the other side of the bike. An outer ring with the teeth removed (and the front mech locked out) used as a rudimentary bash-guard would help. So would just riding around in the big ring...


----------



## BenM (18 Feb 2012)

> If the forward crank is anywhere between horizontal and aiming upwards it'll be forced backwards by the impact


You must push your 'bent in pedestrian spaces way faster than I do then... if the front of the bike was anywhere near a ped. I would be almost stopped. Granted I haven't tried pushing the bike through Waterloo station at rush hour!


> left hand crank/pedal is way over there on the other side of the bike.


Its only a bottom bracket width away; psychologically (as far as a ped. is concerned) it is in the same place... I reckon you would need a really deliberate pedestrian to hit the chainwheel without first contacting the pedal if you have the left pedal sticking forwards.

YMMV of course.

B.


----------



## starhawk (18 Feb 2012)

mickle said:


> the left hand crank/pedal is way over there on the other side of the bike.


What kind of weird bike do you have mine is less than a decimeter away, I would really like to see the pedestrian who manages to avoid the pedal and hit the chainring


----------



## machew (18 Feb 2012)

I used to internet before I got a chain ring to the knee


----------



## mickle (18 Feb 2012)

starhawk said:


> What kind of weird bike do you have mine is less than a decimeter away, I would really like to see the pedestrian who manages to avoid the pedal and hit the chainring


You're kidding right, or else what kind of two dimensional world do you live in? A human is not a flat plane like a wall. If the centre-line of your bike lines up with the left side outside edge of your victim's outline, the left crank will pass them by and the chain ring will impale them. I'd have thought that was obvious.

Less than a decimeter? What the hell are _you_ riding?


----------



## Arch (19 Feb 2012)

A chap once came up at a roadshow and ranted to a recumbent rider about his chainring. Ian (Fardoe) pointed out that there was a great feal more risk of anyone being hit by a car on the road. The ranter said "oh, but if you get hit by a car, you just roll off". He genuinely seemed to believe that a pedestrian hit by a car just rolled away and got up, having landed on a bed of marshmallow....


----------



## starhawk (19 Feb 2012)

mickle said:


> You're kidding right, or else what kind of two dimensional world do you live in? A human is not a flat plane like a wall. If the centre-line of your bike lines up with the left side outside edge of your victim's outline, the left crank will pass them by and the chain ring will impale them. I'd have thought that was obvious.
> 
> Less than a decimeter? What the hell are _you_ riding?


As of your description I sooner would think that you live in a two dimesional world, has it ever occurred to you that the outside edge of your victim is not a flat surface? Or are you used to impaling things att an angle?

OK maybe a little longer then a decimeter, but the crankarm also counts! That still leaves a very small window of danger and as the outside of the victim is not flat it wouldn't be an impaling


----------



## mickle (19 Feb 2012)

starhawk said:


> As of your description I sooner would think that you live in a two dimesional world, has it ever occurred to you that the outside edge of your victim is not a flat surface? Or are you used to impaling things att an angle?
> 
> OK maybe a little longer then a decimeter, but the crankarm also counts! That still leaves a very small window of danger and as the outside of the victim is not flat it wouldn't be an impaling


 
Are you drunk?


----------



## swscotland bentrider (19 Feb 2012)

I don't doubt a chainrings potential to injure. The incident I referred to in an earlier post was caused as far as I understand by a stumble on a loaded DF touring bike. Presumably he lost balance as he put pressure on the left pedal. Chainring sliced deeply into his right calf. He needed a hospital admission and several stitches. Being sort of a round three dimensional shape didn't seem to provide much protection!


----------



## starhawk (21 Feb 2012)

mickle said:


> Are you drunk?


  Dumb comments are always appreciated


----------



## fossyant (21 Feb 2012)

starhawk said:


> As of your description I sooner would think that you live in a two dimesional world, has it ever occurred to you that the outside edge of your victim is not a flat surface? Or are you used to impaling things att an angle?
> 
> OK maybe a little longer then a decimeter, but the crankarm also counts! That still leaves a very small window of danger and as the outside of the victim is not flat it wouldn't be an impaling


 
Dumb comments or not - I still can't understand what you are on about ?


----------



## GrasB (21 Feb 2012)

Basically the distance between the non-drive crank & the chainring is rather small. To the point it would take some interesting maneuvers to actually make contact.


----------



## mickle (21 Feb 2012)

GrasB said:


> Basically the distance between the non-drive crank & the chainring is rather small. To the point it would take some interesting maneuvers to actually make contact.


 
Eh? Let me ride into you very many times on my recumbent bicycle. On each collision I move the impact point 5mm farther to the left. On the first hit my left pedal hits you square on the leg. On the second too, and the third. But eventually there comes a time where the left hand pedal just passes you by and the chainring becomes the first part of the bike to make contact. It's _highly unlikely_ that the left hand crank will provide any protection in a collision. Why is this so difficult for some people to envision?

I'd draw a diagram if I could be bothered.


----------



## starhawk (21 Feb 2012)

GrasB said:


> Basically the distance between the non-drive crank & the chainring is rather small. To the point it would take some interesting maneuvers to actually make contact.


On the point!


----------



## markg0vbr (21 Feb 2012)

with my ped deflector and look out every one i am coming flags on i am the safest thing on the road, or cycle path, as the dogs and kids bounce off* and has been extensively tested on both. i would have to shove a bike pump in the back wheel of a df to shred there leg with my rig, but still according to the club riders it needs a chain guard. i dont ride with them, you know there odd.


*unlike another trike rider re named dog shredder.


----------



## Tigerbiten (21 Feb 2012)

My trikes so low down I'll get knee caps and not groin's if I try hard enough ........ 

And the daft thing is that I'm more likely to get them pushing it by hand, rather than sitting on it and riding it.


----------



## BenM (22 Feb 2012)

> Why is this so difficult for some people to envision?


It is not difficult to envision - in the basically static system you describe you are correct; the chain wheel will hit the target at some point given a static unobservant target. And oif course if the right pedal is pointing forwards it is impossible for the pedestrian to connect with the chain ring... at sensible speeds at least.

My hypothesis is that, psychologically for the pedestrian, the left pedal pointing forwards is just as effective in promoting evasive maneuvers regarding the chain ring as the right.

I think that in the real world, as opposed to an Intertnet thought experiment, either the pedestrian will notice the whole bike/(probably bell ringing/horn sounding/shouting) cyclist and take avoiding action or the rider will take evasive action - such as altering the position of the machine so that the pedal does contact the target first 

In the case where the cyclist is pushing their recumbent behind the ped then the cyclist should be the one to look out and would IMHO be extremely unlikely to actually manage to hit the pedestrain with the chain wheel or, indeed, any other part of the machine.

Out of interest has anyone actually managed to hit a pedestrian with their chain ring?


----------



## RhythMick (22 Feb 2012)

Edwards80 said:


> I'd stick this on the front. Should be less offensive to the third party than a chainringed face/gentlmans area.


Love it 

... every day is a winding road...


----------



## tongskie01 (22 Feb 2012)

i raced in bhpc club race last year and chain guard is a must. so there must be reasons behind it.


----------



## girovago (22 Feb 2012)

tongskie01 said:


> i raced in bhpc club race last year and chain guard is a must. so there must be reasons behind it.


 

Other than a _'let's just cover our arse'_ outlook on potential litigation?


----------



## swscotland bentrider (22 Feb 2012)

'Out of interest has anyone actually managed to hit a pedestrian with their chain ring?'

Well yes, --- me! When in my workshop I noticed that whenever my back was turned my trike would roll forward and nip me in the back of the leg. Of course when I turned round it was absolutely static! I didn't have the heart to have it put down so I sold it to an unsuspecting purchaser.


----------



## HovR (22 Feb 2012)

I guess we should stick air bags on the outside of cars, because you know.. They can be pretty dangerous if they hit a pedestrian.


----------



## markg0vbr (22 Feb 2012)

BenM said:


> It is not difficult to envision - in the basically static system you describe you are correct; the chain wheel will hit the target at some point given a static unobservant target. And oif course if the right pedal is pointing forwards it is impossible for the pedestrian to connect with the chain ring... at sensible speeds at least.
> 
> My hypothesis is that, psychologically for the pedestrian, the left pedal pointing forwards is just as effective in promoting evasive maneuvers regarding the chain ring as the right.
> 
> ...


 
the normal way to move a trike when not riding it is to drag it, by the back wheel behind you.


----------



## BlackPanther (23 Feb 2012)

BenM said:


> Out of interest has anyone actually managed to hit a pedestrian with their chain ring?


 
No, why? Is there a prize?


----------



## arallsopp (26 Feb 2012)

I've not yet hit a pedestrian, but I have had two collisions, one regrettable, the other a delight. The sorry one saw 'Teef (of these very forums) come to a halt in front of the group to let a wheelchair user cross the road. I stopped late, collected a shove from the back, and rolled chainring first into his (mighty) calf. Left a nasty set of holes in him, which was tragic.

The second was a young lady who thought that pulling out from a minor road into the path of fast moving traffic was a good idea because

the only thing she was going to disrupt was a lowly bicycle
knowing that the rider would come off worse than a people carrier, he would magically bend physics and stop within 25 feet.
I did stop within 25 feet, to be fair. Problem was, she was only 24 feet and 9 inches away. Took me forever to back the bike out of her door panel. Turns out a Renault Espace is considerable softer than PanzerFiets.
Andy.


----------

