# Why do we have padded cycling shorts ?



## pshore (2 Aug 2011)

On the face of it, this sounds like a beginner question, but I currently have three bikes I ride regularly, do 100km rides in my stride and have got a few cycle tours chalked up.

What's bugging me is why do we use padded shorts instead of padded saddles on most bikes ?


I have a theory, but I'd like to hear other peoples.


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## tongskie01 (2 Aug 2011)

pshore said:


> On the face of it, this sounds like a beginner question, but I currently have three bikes I ride regularly, do 100km rides in my stride and have got a few cycle tours chalked up.
> 
> What's bugging me is why do we use padded shorts instead of padded saddles on most bikes ?
> 
> ...



u cant wash padded saddles regularly?


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## tongskie01 (2 Aug 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recumbent_bicycle this bicycle design has a proper seat and cushion that you wont need padding on your shorts.


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## Midnight (2 Aug 2011)

Didn't I once read somewhere that if you have a lot of padding on the seat, the padding can move round on the seat, shifting your balance and adversely affect your riding position?


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## NeilEB (2 Aug 2011)

Midnight said:


> Didn't I once read somewhere that if you have a lot of padding on the seat, the padding can move round on the seat, shifting your balance and adversely affect your riding position?




I have a lot of natural padding on 'my seat' - maybe that explains why I'm so wobbly (on my bike....)


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## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

A padded seat will never hug your bum like a pair of shorts. So it won't actually eliminate those pesky saddle sores.


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## jefmcg (2 Aug 2011)




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## Norm (2 Aug 2011)

Padding in shorts will move with the rider, padding on the seat will move with the bike.

But I don't wear padded shorts or have a padded seat.


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## MontyVeda (2 Aug 2011)

i don't have padded shorts but do have a padded seat. 

I think the padded shorts are a result of people wanting a slim and streamlined looking saddle (like a razor blade)


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2011)

Norm said:


> Padding in shorts will move with the rider, padding on the seat will move with the bike.



- that is pretty much it. If the padding is on the saddle it can still produce chafing as your legs move against it. The padding in the shorts moves with the legs and is a barrier.

BTW - narrow saddles would not exist if they weren't fit for purpose.


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## MontyVeda (2 Aug 2011)

youngoldbloke said:


> ...
> 
> BTW - narrow saddles would not exist if they weren't fit for purpose.



in my experience they're not fit for purpose.


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> in my experience they're not fit for purpose.



That may well be so - but how many fat gel saddles did you see on the riders bikes in the Tour this year? I suppose you'll tell me they were all posing, its all fashion?


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## MontyVeda (2 Aug 2011)

youngoldbloke said:


> That may well be so - but how many fat gel saddles did you see on the riders bikes in the Tour this year? I suppose you'll tell me* they were all posing, its all fashion?*



Nail on head!


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## Globalti (2 Aug 2011)

Gel saddles may feel comfortable in the shop but in real life they soon become an irritation. Your pelvic bones sink into the padding and the rest of the saddle chafes and makes you sweat.


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## tyred (2 Aug 2011)

I used to use padded cycle shorts. Then I discovered the greatest of all bicycle accessories, the Brooks B17.


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## MontyVeda (2 Aug 2011)

Globalti said:


> Gel saddles may feel comfortable in the shop but in real life they soon become an irritation.* Your pelvic bones sink into the padding and the rest of the saddle chafes and makes you sweat.*



maybe that should read:

_ Your My pelvic bones sink into the padding and the rest of the saddle chafes and makes you me sweat.
_
I've had a gel saddle on for about 6 years and i don't get any chaffing or sweating. it's all down to personal experience and preference.


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## snorri (2 Aug 2011)

I've never felt the need to wear padding, although one of my bikes has a gel seat which is only comfortable for short trips,<10 miles.


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## NormanD (2 Aug 2011)

Wearing bib shorts (thin padding) on a hot muggy day (like today) and sweating buckets, it keep the meat and two veg cooler longer when out of the saddle down a steep decline more than a gel saddle would, the opposite in winter it keeps them slightly warmer


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> maybe that should read:
> 
> _ Your My pelvic bones sink into the padding and the rest of the saddle chafes and makes you me sweat.
> _
> I've had a gel saddle on for about 6 years and i don't get any chaffing or sweating. it's all down to personal experience and preference.



The choice of a saddle is of course a very personal matter - but what sort of riding do you do, what sort of distances? What make and model is the saddle?


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## MacB (2 Aug 2011)

use what works best for you, the influences on this are many, from personal anatomy and fitness levels, through type of cycling to the way you setup your bike.

The only thing that ever irks me, and I've fallen victim to this, is selecting form over function for whatever reason, normally fashion though.


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## pshore (2 Aug 2011)

A good spread of replies !

I know a lot of people who wear cycling shorts but I am in doubt that most people need them. I think what most people really need is a more padded seat. In my experience, it's only when you spend four or more hours in the saddle do you really need to consider good padded shorts. 

I have to wonder if the bike industry has pulled a fast one here. Trim down the saddle and make that component cheaper to either make more profit or undercut the competition and it also makes your bike lighter. It's kind of like the less spokes is better argument.



tongskie01 said:


> u cant wash padded saddles regularly?


That's what I thought initially, but thinking more, sweat comes through the shorts and into the seats covering anyway. (unless you ride with a plastic seat or plastic bag on your BSO).




gaz said:


> A padded seat will never hug your bum like a pair of shorts. So it won't actually eliminate those pesky saddle sores.


Personally, I have not found this. I have found on a long tour that wearing the same design of padded shorts can cause discomfort in a particular spot which builds over a few days. Switching to a different brand changes the pressure points giving relief to the original area.




Norm said:


> Padding in shorts will move with the rider, padding on the seat will move with the bike.


Definitely true but I don't get the advantage. I move around from nose to tail on all my bikes' saddles and I still rate the more padded seats more. I know I can move around the slimmest road bike saddle more that I can the others but don't find it totally necessary. I find it more useful to have a slim MTB saddle so you can drop off the back.



youngoldbloke said:


> If the padding is on the saddle it can still produce chafing as your legs move against it. The padding in the shorts moves with the legs and is a barrier.


Good point, however, if I wear running shorts (think padded cycling shorts without the pad) I don't get this rubbing issue. I do tend to wear baggies over the top so perhaps this is helping prevent friction.




tyred said:


> I used to use padded cycle shorts. Then I discovered the greatest of all bicycle accessories, the Brooks B17.


My touring bike saddle is starting to wear and I am very (not sorely) tempted !



snorri said:


> I've never felt the need to wear padding, although one of my bikes has a gel seat which is only comfortable for short trips,<10 miles.



Yes, my MTB and touring bikes I can ride for four or five hours without padding. My road bike however, I am limited to about three with whatever cycling shorts I wear.

To be honest, I have discovered for me, I need a bit of padding in the seat and a V cut down the middle then I am sorted.

So after all of that, I still don't quite get it. That Dilbert cartoon is spot on !


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## tongskie01 (2 Aug 2011)

pshore said:


> A good spread of replies !
> 
> I know a lot of people who wear cycling shorts but I am in doubt that most people need them. I think what most people really need is a more padded seat. In my experience, it's only when you spend four or more hours in the saddle do you really need to consider good padded shorts.
> 
> ...



its time for you to get a proper bike seat. not a saddle. if you want comfort get a recumbent bike. see hpv forum and youll see what i mean.


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## pshore (2 Aug 2011)

MacB said:


> use what works best for you, the influences on this are many, from personal anatomy and fitness levels, through type of cycling to the way you setup your bike.
> 
> The only thing that ever irks me, and I've fallen victim to this, is selecting form over function for whatever reason, normally fashion though.



Wise words MacB. 

Some people buy all the gear with the philosophy of _buy the best, buy once_ but that has the risk of following the crowds decision. I am at the other end, buy what I think I need, and if I find the limits, I'll make an informed buying decision second time round.

And it is true that all these TdF guys have razor saddles and padded shorts, and I am sure they know what they want doing two weeks of hard racing. It doesn't seem to translate to my butt and my riding.

Maybe I am getting old, I can hear that Yellow Pages ad in my head.


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## pshore (2 Aug 2011)

tongskie01 said:


> its time for you to get a proper bike seat. not a saddle. if you want comfort get a recumbent bike. see hpv forum and youll see what i mean.



I am definitely recumbent curious, but don't want to make a leap of faith especially as sitting in the car gives me back ache and I never got on with 'bents at the gym. 

Damn you ! You have planted a seed in my mind but I can't buy another N+1 !	I've got to keep my habit to one a year.


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## MontyVeda (2 Aug 2011)

youngoldbloke said:


> The choice of a saddle is of course a very personal matter - but what sort of riding do you do, what sort of distances? What make and model is the saddle?



My daily commute is about half a mile . Weekend rides, 25-40 miles. The saddle is a San Marco (i think, can barely read the stamp now), no idea what model but it's nowt special, picked it up in a LBS closing down sale for about £8 years ago. And it has one of them holes in it. Ps. I have little to no natural padding on my arse 

my philosophy with such things is... if it doesn't work, I'll know it doesn't, if I don't have any complaints, then it works.


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2011)

There are Gel saddles and then there are gel saddles.... San Marco is a good brand. Many of the narrow saddles today have 'gel' in their description - for example you can get the classic Selle Italia SLR in a gel version. IMO the ones to avoid are the fat squishy ones. Personally I find saddles with very little padding comfortable, and they must be narrow for me. I use a Velo Pro - a poor man's SLR - I have very little natural padding too! It's a very personal thing.


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## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

pshore said:


> Personally, I have not found this. I have found on a long tour that wearing the same design of padded shorts can cause discomfort in a particular spot which builds over a few days. Switching to a different brand changes the pressure points giving relief to the original area.



So you are saying that a padded seat is better than padded shorts because?


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## pshore (2 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> So you are saying that a padded seat is better than padded shorts because?




Cycling shorts are expensive relative to running shorts. Seat prices don't go up when you add padding to them. For me, and maybe a lot of other people, if their bike came with a padded seat they would never need to buy cycling shorts.


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## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

pshore said:


> Cycling shorts are expensive relative to running shorts. Seat prices don't go up when you add padding to them. For me, and maybe a lot of other people, if their bike came with a padded seat they would never need to buy cycling shorts.



How ever that relates to my original comment, i do not know.


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## pshore (3 Aug 2011)

All I was trying to say Gaz, was that I don't think cycling shorts are a magic solution to reducing saddle sores. But they are an easier solution.

If you can get the right seat for you, there is no need for cycling shorts. 
If you can get an ok seat for you, cycling shorts help increase the distance you can use that seat for.
If you have a bad seat, no cycling shorts are going to help.

The problem is, cost prohibits us from trying enough saddles to get the right one for us. I have not yet found my perfect saddle, so I am still using cycling shorts.

Maybe, I am chasing an impossible ideal here, as said earlier, the pros are still using padded shorts and not B17's.


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## Wankelschrauben (3 Aug 2011)

Personally, I've not yet had a problem with the minimal padded PROLITE seat on my bike Aluminium bike.

I've not had a problem with the Iscaselle padded racing saddle on my Steel racer.

I never had a problem with the sofa on my old Chopper that I used to ride as a kid.

Rather than the seat being too thickly padded or not enough padded, I like to think the culprit is the height and length of journey.


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## Fiona N (3 Aug 2011)

I find it somewhat amusing that someone whose daily commute is - what was it - half a mile and weekend rides are 25 miles is being prescriptive about what's what. 

The whole 'padded' shorts and 'gel' saddle debate is fatuous if you conflate cheap shorts with a wodge of spongy padding with a pair of performance shorts in which there's a properly constructed pad to minimise chaffling, or those dreadful broad 'comfort' saddles with about an inch depth of soft padding as opposed to a performance saddle with about 3 or 4 mm of a firm gel which acts as a shock absorber for the sit bones. 

If you can't discriminate between these sorts of options, it's no wonder you're only cycling 25 miles with a gel saddle with or without 'padded' shorts


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## 400bhp (3 Aug 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that someone whose daily commute is - what was it - half a mile and weekend rides are 25 miles is being prescriptive about what's what.
> 
> The whole 'padded' shorts and 'gel' saddle debate is fatuous if you conflate cheap shorts with a wodge of spongy padding with a pair of performance shorts in which there's a properly constructed pad to minimise chaffling, or those dreadful broad 'comfort' saddles with about an inch depth of soft padding as opposed to a performance saddle with about 3 or 4 mm of a firm gel which acts as a shock absorber for the sit bones.
> 
> If you can't discriminate between these sorts of options, it's no wonder you're only cycling 25 miles with a gel saddle with or without 'padded' shorts



+1


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## MontyVeda (3 Aug 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that someone whose daily commute is - what was it - half a mile and weekend rides are 25 miles is being prescriptive about what's what.
> 
> The whole 'padded' shorts and 'gel' saddle debate is fatuous if you conflate cheap shorts with a wodge of spongy padding with a pair of performance shorts in which there's a properly constructed pad to minimise chaffling, or those dreadful broad 'comfort' saddles with about an inch depth of soft padding as opposed to a performance saddle with about 3 or 4 mm of a firm gel which acts as a shock absorber for the sit bones.
> 
> If you can't discriminate between these sorts of options, it's no wonder you're only cycling 25 miles with a gel saddle with or without 'padded' shorts



I assume you're referring to me. 

My weekend rides are 25-40 miles, as stated, yet you only quote the lower 25 miles to prove what? I don't cycle far enough to know my seat is comfy?


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## 400bhp (3 Aug 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> I assume you're referring to me.
> 
> My weekend rides are 25-40 miles, as stated, yet you only quote the lower 25 miles to prove what? I don't cycle far enough to know my seat is comfy?



Fine up to the miles you are doing.

I find it's a different ball game (pun intended) at distances > around 80 miles.


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## lulubel (3 Aug 2011)

I'm still using the saddle that came with my bike. It isn't hugely padded, but not as hard as some of the saddles I've seen on men's bikes. I generally wear padded shorts, but when I was commuting (10 miles each way), I often didn't wear them if it was raining - I certainly don't find wet padded shorts comfortable - and didn't experience any discomfort over that distance. I haven't tried riding longer distances without padding, so I don't know if it would be uncomfortable or not. I'm not sure if it matters as much for women as for men because many of us have more natural padding (speaking for myself here ).

Anyway, I'm going to be in the market for a saddle soon because the one on my trainer bike is like a razor blade, and I can't imagine spending more than 5 minutes on that!


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## colinr (3 Aug 2011)

My single most expensive item of clothing is a pair of bibshorts. I ride a razor blade Fizik Arione *and* use brand name chamois cream. This is what I find most comfortable for the riding I do, it's that amazing phenomenon known as personal preference.


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## Fiona N (3 Aug 2011)

MontyVeda said:


> I assume you're referring to me.
> As they say, if the cap fits...
> 
> My weekend rides are 25-40 miles, as stated, yet you only quote the lower 25 miles to prove what? I don't cycle far enough to know my seat is comfy?
> ...



The point is, if you're not really testing the limits, anything is likely to be OK. I typically ride a hilly 20 mile ride with a rucksac to go shopping, returning with 15kgs of stuff. I don't bother with cycling shorts usually but I do use some Gore Bike Wear outer baggies with no crotch seams as there's no point doing damage when I might be out on the weekend for a 300km - with Selle Italia gel saddle and Giordana lightly padded shorts. 

There was a guy rode the Dunwich Dynamo (> 100 miles) on a Boris bike. It's all do-able if you're willing to accept some discomfort but there's an old Army adage - _any fool can be uncomfortable_


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## Angelfishsolo (3 Aug 2011)

Midnight said:


> Didn't I once read somewhere that if you have a lot of padding on the seat, the padding can move round on the seat, shifting your balance and adversely affect your riding position?



+1


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## screenman (3 Aug 2011)

Why the comment about fewer spokes earlier on? Narrow saddle and padded shorts have worked for me for the last 40 years, yes I have ridden bikes with padded unshaped or poorly shaped saddle and they are not for me.

Tips on making a saddle feel more comfortable, push harder on the pedals.


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## Angelfishsolo (3 Aug 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I find it somewhat amusing that someone whose daily commute is - what was it - half a mile and weekend rides are 25 miles is being prescriptive about what's what.
> 
> The whole 'padded' shorts and 'gel' saddle debate is fatuous if you conflate cheap shorts with a wodge of spongy padding with a pair of performance shorts in which there's a properly constructed pad to minimise chaffling, or those dreadful broad 'comfort' saddles with about an inch depth of soft padding as opposed to a performance saddle with about 3 or 4 mm of a firm gel which acts as a shock absorber for the sit bones.
> 
> If you can't discriminate between these sorts of options, it's no wonder you're only cycling 25 miles with a gel saddle with or without 'padded' shorts



+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000


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## pshore (3 Aug 2011)

screenman said:


> Why the comment about fewer spokes earlier on?



To some, fewer spokes make a lighter faster accellerating wheel. To others, it is an inferior wheel with reduced strength that is marketed as better but actually costs the manufacturer less in raw materials and is sold for more money.

I was drawing a parallel with saddles. If you reduce the padding its less raw materials cheaper to make. You market the saddle as better, say lighter, less chafing and then sell it for more and then sell expensive padded shorts to to consumer. I am on the fence here. 

My medium padding touring seat is very good and I can use it 8 hours a day every day on a steel frame with 35mm tyres. It's not perfect so I use padded shorts too. I have ridden it 6 hours in just running shorts too but you start to feel the lack of extra padding beyond that time.

I am struggling with my road bike saddle tho, 4 hours and I am done. I think its a San Marco skn racing. I am new to 23mm bikes and my s/h ride is alu on the rear so I am still wondering if it is the saddle or just getting a battering from road buzz.

I am starting to be tempted by a brooks or specialized fit service (or an audax bike).


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## Wankelschrauben (3 Aug 2011)

I've just tried padded shorts for the 1st time, just £25 cycles Altura ones and my god do they make a difference, no chaffing at all and no saddle pains or anything.

The jersey was brilliant also, literally kept me sweat free on a 24 mile ride done in 50 minutes.


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2011)

Saddles are 'bottom' specific.... 

I used to call my Selle Itallia Flite Titanium an 'Ar$e splitter' - this is from 15 years use.... - I've just about got used to it. 

I love my Rolls - hmmm - they are still used today to get the weight limit down, and they are nice.

I use a Charge Knife on my commuter - minimal padding, etc, but, it is really really comfy - and as light as my Flite... and British !!!! 

A colleague came in this week and said, that doesn't look comfortable  - too my KNIFE... I said , oh it is nice and comfy....


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## Angelfishsolo (3 Aug 2011)

pshore said:


> To some, fewer spokes make a lighter faster accellerating wheel. To others, it is an inferior wheel with reduced strength that is marketed as better but actually costs the manufacturer less in raw materials and is sold for more money.
> 
> I was drawing a parallel with saddles. If you reduce the padding its less raw materials cheaper to make. You market the saddle as better, say lighter, less chafing and then sell it for more and then sell expensive padded shorts to to consumer. I am on the fence here.
> 
> ...


Racing saddles are uncomfortable full stop.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Aug 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> Racing saddles are uncomfortable full stop.



Bit of a generalisation? Still - I have risen to the bait - I DISAGREE
This is my saddle (is this what you mean by a 'racing' saddle?) - not the narrowest, not the lightest at around 230gms, but it is comfortable and it fits me.


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## Angelfishsolo (3 Aug 2011)

youngoldbloke said:


> Bit of a generalisation? Still - I have risen to the bait - I DISAGREE
> This is my saddle (is this what you mean by a 'racing' saddle?) - not the narrowest, not the lightest at around 230gms, but it is comfortable and it fits me.


That actualy looks pretty good. The ones I had in mind have the comfort of a cheese board. Look at the Fizic range. I had one on my MTB and after one ride my bum looked I'd been for a session at spanking parlour


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## Norm (3 Aug 2011)

Wankelschrauben said:


> The jersey was brilliant also, literally kept me sweat free on a 24 mile ride done in 50 minutes.


  Seriously? That speed would put you out in front of most time trials.


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## Angelfishsolo (3 Aug 2011)

Norm said:


> Seriously? That speed would put you out in front of most time trials.


That's what almost 29mph?


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## Wankelschrauben (3 Aug 2011)

That can't be right, I must have timed it wrong.

I was maintaining about 25mph.


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## pshore (3 Aug 2011)

I was just looking up the saddles mentioned and cane across this description from wiggle's performance saddles page:



> Performance saddles are narrower than the models designed for shorter ride comfort. They're intended for riders who have a committed riding style with weight on hands and feet so they're narrower and lighter. High tech padding materials and flexible body designs keep your pressure points comfortable and lightweight chassis components keep the weighto down. Most have some kind of ergonomic design to reduce pressure on nerves and allow unrestriced blood flow to your sensitive areas. Womens models have a wider design to suit their naturally wider pelvis. Saddle widths vary across the ranges from narrow (upto 130mm), medium (upto 138mm) to wide (upto 146mm). Narrower saddles are the popular choice for longer distance riders as they do not cause the hips to be placed in an unnatural position. Wider saddles will often feel comfortable initially due to their greater surface area but then progressively decrease in comfort as the miles increase, the correct choice of saddle is a case of getting the balance between initial comfort and overall comfort



I think it sums up quite well a lot of what has been said here. 

I thought the comment earlier about pedalling harder was tongue in cheek !

So, for longer rides choose a less comfortable saddle then add padded shorts to compensate and pedal harder to use the saddle less


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## Wankelschrauben (3 Aug 2011)

Sorry it was a 20 mile ride, I've just looked it up the route planner, it is an 8 mile trip each way, I did an extra four miles around my area to get it up to 20, not 24.

Route planner

There is a big hill I got part way up and then walked on the way back but otherwise the speed was nice.


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