# Training peaks and coach



## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

Hi,

I have been cycling since April last year to challenge myself. I did everything I aimed to do and more; so I was very pleased with myself. Since day one I have recorded every ride, weight and fitness strength workout I did on Training peaks. Its a great piece of software but on the free membership you can only do so much. I wouldn't mind getting the premium membership but feel I would only get 50% from the software. What I need is a coach to help me reach my goals for 2013 and use training peaks correctly. I live in Cheshire so could any one recommend a coach to help me? 

Cheers

John


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## David Criswell (17 Nov 2012)

Hi John, 

We have a coach matching service if that is something you are interested in. Details are here: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/coach-matching.aspx.
Thanks for being a TrainingPeaks customer!

Cheers,
Dave from TrainingPeaks


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## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

cheers Dave i'll take a look.


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## Rob3rt (17 Nov 2012)

What are your aim's/goals? Do you really need a coach?


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## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

That Rob I am not to sure yet.
At the age of 39 I don't want to waste the years I have left so I want to make the most of them while I can. I wish to increase my power out put this year along with my average speed. I know its quite vague but I have figures in my mind I want to achieve and would like to know if its possible. I would also like to see if my training I have in mind will do this and be guided in the correct way if not.


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## Rob3rt (17 Nov 2012)

Will you be racing? Do you have a power meter?

I would say, spend your money on club membership!

What are your current (moving) average speeds?


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## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

Hi Rob,

I have not counted out racing, I think it would be a good challenge.
I do not have a power meter. I only work with a Garmin 800 with HR with cadence sensor and try and calculate the power out put the best I can. Strava helps here.

My current avg speeds over different distance are:-
16miles = 20.6mph My best time
25miles = 19.5mph
30miles+ = 16-19mph depending routes.
Pretty average really.

Right now I am trying to increase my base training and cadence an example of which is here:-
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/EHNO7PDVDN2QEM7VFBGEBGXZJU

This is done indoors on a trainer.

I have not thought about on a local club,
thanks for looking and helping me.
Cheers
John


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## black'n'yellow (17 Nov 2012)

not sure if you have understood what is meant by 'base training' - but that link above certainly is NOT it.


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## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

So can you point me in the right direction?


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## black'n'yellow (17 Nov 2012)

johnpembo73 said:


> So can you point me in the right direction?


 
There are loads of definitions of base training, but from my point of view it involves 3-4 hour steady rides two or three times per week. Use the turbo for shorter, high intensity work. Difficult to be specific, as your goals seem a little undefined...


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## johnpembo73 (17 Nov 2012)

I agree on the time issue but when time is an issue an you can not get out on the road the turbo is handy. The time as I understand it is between 2-4 hours depending on what you are training for. The understanding I have is to train at the AeT for a period of time and not see much of a difference between the 1st half of the ride against the 2nd part of the ride, say 5%. You need to look at another unit whilst looking at these numbers. Until then there is not much point in to looking at other parts of the training. My longer rides will come when I have time but in the mean time I thought I would get a head start on the trainer. 

The high intensity work is great and I have done this in the past weeks and will do again in the coming weeks. But at present I see my time in training my body to burn my energy efficiently and effectively so when the high intensity rides and training sessions come along they should be still hurting but only to be a little faster whilst hurting

Have I understood this wrongly? If so I am open to ideas and learning more.

Cheers

John


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## black'n'yellow (17 Nov 2012)

that kinda makes sense - my only observation is that sitting on the turbo riding slowly at a low effort level for an hour is a waste of time and is doing very little, if anything, to enhance your base conditioning.


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## Rob3rt (18 Nov 2012)

Whilst some long rides are very much preferable (both physically and mentally), if you work on training stress scores then you can build base fitness riding at a slightly higher intensity for a shorter period, i.e. on the turbo, provided that you are not doing all out efforts at this time of year, and can increase training stress score week on week (with a rest week every few weeks) either through increasing volume or intensity (without ending up doing all out efforts).

Training stress score can be calculated a number of ways, either HR, power or RPE based. Please refer to Chris Carmichael or Joe Friel's text's for this. Training peaks probably has this function built in (unless it is a plug in or premium feature?). Alternativelly you can use SportTracks and the relevant plug in's.


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## MattHB (18 Nov 2012)

Do whatever motivates you. We're all different. And as I've said here and on other forums time and time again. You DON'T have to have a PM to use training peaks.


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## Rob3rt (18 Nov 2012)

MattHB said:


> Do whatever motivates you. We're all different. And as I've said here and on other forums time and time again. You DON'T have to have a PM to use training peaks.


 
You need a power meter or a turbo trainer with a known power curve if you want to quantify gains in power output though.

Further there may not be a "right" way to train, but there is most certainly a wrong way, especially if you have a particular date or time scale in mind for achieving a specific goal. For example, if you plan on racing during the main season, then you will most certainly be compromising your performance if you are doing your hard interval training now, as you will peak WAY to early. No point peaking for March if the racing season is only just starting in March for example.


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## MattHB (18 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> You need a power meter or a turbo trainer with a known power curve if you want to quantify gains in power output though.



Yes but this isn't the only way to use TP, although its the designed way ill admit.


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## Rob3rt (18 Nov 2012)

No-one in this thread said it was though  I asked if he had a power meter because he said he wanted to increase power output and I wondered how he was going to quantify this.


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## johnpembo73 (18 Nov 2012)

Thanks for everyone taking their time to look and respond. I have sent the email contact to TP so hopefully they will come back with something. I still think I need pointing in the right direction with training so any help would be appreciated. For those who are full members of TP how do you find using the software is it easy to learn?


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## Rob3rt (18 Nov 2012)

The use of the software is likely to be fairly easy, but the problem you will likely face is getting the inputs right (i.e. knowing the required thresholds that certain zones will be calculated from, knowing your starting point for weekly training stress score's etc) and being able to understand the outputs. If you do not know what the information means, it is of no use.

I would suggest reading the books by Joe Friel and Chris Carmichael, these two coaches have had a lot of input into TP and will explain in great detail the process of planning, executing, reviewing and adjusting a training plan in order to achieve a series of goals. I have read Joe Friel's text's and they are quite dry and scientific, can take a bit of effort to read, but it is worth it in the long run, I have not read Carmichael's books, so can not comment.


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## amaferanga (19 Nov 2012)

My advice would be to buy a power meter (either a PowerTap for about £500 or a Power2max for ~£800) and then use Golden Cheetah v3.0. This is a free piece of software that has pretty much all of the metrics that Training Peaks and WKO+ have. You can track your training load, look at various metrics over time, etc.. Training Peaks is a waste of money unless you have a power meter IMO (I know some will say otherwise, but that's just my opinion) unless you really, really need something that's web-based. 

And any power guesses based on your HR/speed will be so far off as to be completely useless at best and probably misleading. If you don't have a power meter just don't worry about trying to quantify power by guessing it. It won't help.

I'd say that given your current understanding of training then you will get a LOT from buying a power meter and then (before you use it) reading a couple of good books including Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Allen and Coggan. Then if you are still struggling, find a good coach that has plenty of experience with power-based training and athletes with your kind of vague goals.


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## Rob3rt (19 Nov 2012)

What power meter do you use ^^ any experience of the Power2Max? I am currently in the saving and researching period with an aim to buying a power meter. By Feb/March next year (sooner if an informed decision can be made by then).


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## amaferanga (19 Nov 2012)

I had a PowerTap Pro+ for 2 and a bit years. It was great, no issues with it until the torque tube failed in August this year. Sent it off to Paligap who wanted about £500 to repair it so I said no thanks and bought a Power2max SRAM S900 version for not much more. I've had a couple of issues with the P2M, in particular a software crash issue, but P2M have sorted that out now. It's not a problem that affects all P2M so I wouldn't let it worry you. The P2M issue that everyone talks about is the temperature-related drift, but there's now an update that includes temperature compensation stuff. It was only really a problem if you don't stop pedalling at all when there are big changes in temperature to let the unit auto-zero anyway. The numbers I was seeing before I sent mine back for repair were always believable so I think P2M have nailed it. Can be swapped between bikes in ~2 minutes so it's not much more of a pain swapping between bikes than it is for a wheel. One current niggle with the P2M is that software updates can only be performed by sending it back to Germany. I believe they're working on a way for users to do their own updates though, which would be great. It cost me £12 to send mine back to Germany and it took 3 weeks to sort it out which was a pain (I think they're very busy updating older P2Ms to add the temperature compensation stuff at the moment though).

Even though PowerTap hubs aren't that heavy, you really do notice the weight on the back wheel and the limitations it places on wheel choice became an issue for me as well. If you race then you really should race with the power meter as it provides a lot of useful information on what you did right or wrong, but that means you need to find a rim that'll work for training and racing. I settled on a 50mm carbon clincher rim for the summer months and I then swapped to an IRD Cadence alloy rim at the end of the race season. It worked, but training on a carbon rim isn't exactly ideal (I think I got away with it because I don't weigh much and I'm generally quite careful with my wheels).


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## Rob3rt (19 Nov 2012)

Yes, the wheel limitations have all but ruled out power tap for me, I want to both train and time trial with a power meter, crits and road races, it is less important, but could still be handy for review purposes. I have been looking at power2max for a few weeks, but wondering if I should save up for a Quarq unit! The zero'ing issue on the power2max, well that is still a bit odd that you can not turn it off or manually zero, because just because you are not pedalling doesn't neccessarily mean you are not applying power, so the zero'ing might not be accurate?


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## amaferanga (19 Nov 2012)

You can manually zero with a Garmin, but you can't turn off auto-zeroing. Rather than turn off auto-zeroing, I'd prefer to see the latest zero offset sent to the head unit. At the moment with my Edge 500, I can see the latest zero offset value when I do a manual zero, but not with an auto-zero. I can see that it's stable at constant temperature and I can track the value at the start of a ride (which usually means going from ~21 degrees to ~10 degrees at the moment) if I stop every few minutes and do a manual zero (I did this when I first got it just to see what number I'd get). But the latest auto zero just isn't sent to the head unit. This applies to all power meters with an auto-zero feature used with a Garmin and most other head units as far as I'm aware. I had erroneous auto-zeroing with my PowerTap a number of times.

Now, if Garmin or another head unit manufacturer were to include a new data field called 'zero offset' and the power meter manufacturers were to send this value to the head unit each time a new auto zero completes then you could have confidence that the power numbers you're seeing are correct. I've a good idea what the zero offset will settle at depending on temperature so I'd know if there was a failed auto-zero just from being able to see that number. The number would also be in the ride file so you'd have a record if there were any changes over time.

P2M claim that it's virtually impossible for the auto-zeroing algorithm to produce an erroneous value from pressure being applied to the pedals. That may well be true, but it'd be nice to see and have a record of the number to verify that.


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## Rob3rt (19 Nov 2012)

In your opinion, would you recommend saving the extra and going for a Quarq unit or are you very much pro p2m now you have used one? I am not a high level racer, I just want to make the most of my time as this year will be one of my busiest in other aspects of life also, so I need to make every ride count and as far as I can see, a power meter is a great way to allow me to do this effectively and IMO offers good value for money in this respect (i.e. allowing me to train and race smart, to get the most out of my time, under no silly impressions of it turning me into an elite racer, incase anyone want's to toss that out there  I am also very much aware and acknowledge that it is not needed, but I want it!).


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## black'n'yellow (19 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> In your opinion, would you recommend saving the extra and going for a Quarq unit or are you very much pro p2m now you have used one? I am not a high level racer, I just want to make the most of my time as this year will be one of my busiest in other aspects of life also, so I need to make every ride count and as far as I can see, a power meter is a great way to allow me to do this effectively and IMO offers good value for money in this respect (i.e. allowing me to train and race smart, to get the most out of my time, under no silly impressions of it turning me into an elite racer, incase anyone want's to toss that out there  I am also very much aware and acknowledge that it is not needed, but I want it!).


 
sounds like you are buying one for the right reasons - no other justification needed IMO...


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## amaferanga (19 Nov 2012)

I've no experience of Quarq so I can't really compare. If I'm honest though I'd probably have got one if I had enough spare cash at the time, though only because there're more of them around. There's also a Rotor power meter coming early next year that should be around the same price as a Quarq and people seem to be quite excited about it.


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## Rob3rt (20 Nov 2012)

Thanks, will keep looking, so far my most likely buy will be a power2max Rotor 3D +. I do not think I will use asymetrical chainrings though, will either got the the round Rotor chainrings, or maybe some SRAM Red chainrings. Another predicament is I will train, race and TT on the power meter, so in TT's will probably prefer a solid chainring, as I currently have fitted, worth swapping chainrings around often or just run a solid TT ring, even on the road bike? There is ofc a weight penalty but... who cares? Also my TT bike is running a Vision Trimax BB30 chainset, my CAAD is a BB30 frame but that has a converter pressed in and is running Shimano Hollowtech BB, so will need to get this pressed back out. Then I should be able to switch the PM between bikes very easily and quickly.

Need to do some more reading (big fan of Friel's books but havent read much else), will read the Coggan text's, I can probably borrow them from someone in the club, will also speak to a few people in the club about it.


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## Seamab (22 Nov 2012)

Looks like you have your mind made up in a different direction but you could hire a basic Powertap for a few months and get the feel for training with power? Would set you back about £150 for 3 months.

I hired a basic Powertap from cyclepowermeters a couple of years back (it was my Xmas present that year) just to find out what all the hoo hah was about PM's. I ended up keeping it for about 8 months until the batteries died and i couldn't get the cover off! (neither could my LBS).

If you the ordered a Quarq or whatever from them afterwards i reckon you'd get a good deal having rented. Just a thought...


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## Rob3rt (22 Nov 2012)

Seamab said:


> Looks like you have your mind made up in a different direction but you could hire a basic Powertap for a few months and get the feel for training with power? Would set you back about £150 for 3 months.
> 
> I hired a basic Powertap from cyclepowermeters a couple of years back (it was my Xmas present that year) just to find out what all the hoo hah was about PM's. I ended up keeping it for about 8 months until the batteries died and i couldn't get the cover off! (neither could my LBS).
> 
> If you the ordered a Quarq or whatever from them afterwards i reckon you'd get a good deal having rented. Just a thought...


 
Hiring it is IMO a massive waste of money, could buy one, put it on your rim of choice then sell it 3-6 months on and loose about the same or even less money. But I do take your point on board. A club mate did the hire to buy thing.

It is especially a waste of money in the case that I pretty much know I don't want a power tap. You can never be certain on what sort of deal they would offer on a Quarq, so I wouldnt fancy risking it tbh.

Thanks for the comment's though. Curious re. your experience of the powertap though, how did you like it? For me the logistics of the powertap just doesn't make sense, I would need 2 of them to train and race.


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## Seamab (23 Nov 2012)

A lot of folks say they can't afford a PM but possibly don't know that they can be hired. Plenty of folks will shell out monthly fees for umpteen other things that are not strictly necessary ...

My powertap experience was good. It worked flawlessly until the batteries died. It got me used to cycling with power (took me a while) and was an overall benefit to my cycling. At that time there were very few alternatives to a PT apart from SRM (very expensive). Ergomo had gone bust and there were the first inklings of a pedal based system in the offing. I chose to rent because i didn't have the cash to buy at the time and didn't know if i would benefit from the experience. Even though there's no chance of me becoming an elite cyclist my everyday riding improved greatly in the period, so for me it was not a waste of money. At the end of it i wanted one!

Even if it's just to calibrate your turbo it's worth it. How many threads do you see on turbos where folks are trying to get power proxies? They'll shell out several hundred pounds for a turbo then whinge that it's not accurate or whatever. 

All the various systems have limitations and being fixed to a wheel is the PT's. 

If i was looking now i'd be interested in whatever one is easiest to swap between bikes that didn't cost an arm and a leg and is proven to be reliable and doesn't have to be sent off somewhere every so often for updates/maintenance. I doubt any fit the bill exactly or ever will. So you makes your choice...


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## amaferanga (23 Nov 2012)

The trouble with renting is that assuming you want one from Cyclepowermeters, you may have to wait months before one becomes available. I tried to rent before buying, but gave up after several weeks of waiting and bought one. I sent an email to Cyclepowermeters asking them to cancel my request to rent a PowerTap, but I then got an email from them at least 2 months later saying they had one available for me! So if you want a power meter soon then buying is probably the way to go.

I wouldn't waste my time renting a power meter to 'calibrate' a turbo unless you 'calibrate' it over a range of ambient temperatures and 'calibrate' it separately for each specific turbo session you do. It's way more hassle than it's worth and there will still be too much uncertainty for it to be of any use whatsoever.


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Nov 2012)

Anyone looking at the Garmin vector system? Looks ideal but the date keeps getting set back. PITA.

http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power


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## amaferanga (23 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Anyone looking at the Garmin vector system? Looks ideal but the date keeps getting set back. PITA.
> 
> http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power


 
What makes you say it looks ideal? If it's the alleged flexibility of a pedal-based system then I bet I can transfer cranks between bikes quicker than it takes to swap over 2 pedals. You'd be mad to buy it as soon as it's released anyway so it's probably going to be 1-2 years before the Vector becomes a viable option. That's if it's ever released.


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## Rob3rt (23 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> Anyone looking at the Garmin vector system? Looks ideal but the date keeps getting set back. PITA.
> 
> http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power


 
V has tested these I believe.


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## Arsen Gere (23 Nov 2012)

My 2p. I don't use a power meter and I don't think I will. I'd like to try one but I don't percieve the need. Here is why I think this.
Power is a great measure for monitoring progress and it gives you the ability to compare two different people on different setups, bikes, tyres, position, conditions etc.

For training purposes on a turbo I am only interested on relative improvements. Me, how I am doing. I have no interest in comparing anyone else to me ( no matter how far behind the pro's I am ). I am only interested in improving me.
I can get this from a rear wheel speedo and a turbo that is setup exactly the same each time to give consistency.

For racing I use feel, perceived exertion based on the experience built on the turbo.


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## Arsen Gere (23 Nov 2012)

Folks may be intersted in some lovely bling and descriptions that identify what was used at Kona this year for the bike tt section.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Tri_Bike_by_brand/Kona_top_15_men_on_bikes_3223.html


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Nov 2012)

amaferanga said:


> What makes you say it looks ideal? If it's the alleged flexibility of a pedal-based system then I bet I can transfer cranks between bikes quicker than it takes to swap over 2 pedals. You'd be mad to buy it as soon as it's released anyway so it's probably going to be 1-2 years before the Vector becomes a viable option. That's if it's ever released.


You can swap the cranks quicker than the pedals?? I'll take your word for it. I certainly cannot.  Surely pedals are more transferable between differing bikes. 
I agree that there may be a lot of problems with it when it's released, though i was hoping that this (ironing out bugs) was the reason behind the large scale delay. I would wait a few month at least anyway before making a decision.


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Nov 2012)

Arsen Gere said:


> Folks may be intersted in some lovely bling and descriptions that identify what was used at Kona this year for the bike tt section.
> 
> http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Tri_Bike_by_brand/Kona_top_15_men_on_bikes_3223.html


I would defo have the Boarman Air. The 9.8 costs a fortune though. Something like the 9.4 would be just the ticket but even still thats knocking on the door of £4000. Planet x have some good spec'd TT bikes too though. 
Clearly a thread deviation.


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> V has tested these I believe.


How did the good man get his mucky paws on these??


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## amaferanga (23 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> You can swap the cranks quicker than the pedals?? I'll take your word for it. I certainly cannot.  Surely pedals are more transferable between differing bikes.
> I agree that there may be a lot of problems with it when it's released, though i was hoping that this (ironing out bugs) was the reason behind the large scale delay. I would wait a few month at least anyway before making a decision.


 
I guess it depends on the chainset, but swapping a gxp chainset involves undoing a single self-extracting bolt on the non-drive side. Then all you have to do is slide the chainset out from the BB, transfer to the other bike and do the bolt up again. It is literally a 2 minute job. With 2 pedals to swap over I can't see it being quicker.


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## Arsen Gere (23 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> I would defo have the Boarman Air. The 9.8 costs a fortune though. Something like the 9.4 would be just the ticket but even still thats knocking on the door of £4000. Planet x have some good spec'd TT bikes too though.
> Clearly a thread deviation.


 
True but they also spec the power meters that are used by each athlete, bringing it back to topic 
Notice some don't use them at all. Kind of my pref, right or wrong.


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## Rob3rt (23 Nov 2012)

Pedrosanchezo said:


> How did the good man get his mucky paws on these??


 
Not sure, I didn't ask any questions


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## Pedrosanchezo (23 Nov 2012)

Arsen Gere said:


> True but they also spec the power meters that are used by each athlete, bringing it back to topic
> Notice some don't use them at all. Kind of my pref, right or wrong.


Each to their own dude and to hell with anyone who will tell you otherwise. Not like we are sponsored and signed to a pro team. 
If you have the ££ and want to use a power meter then by all means do so. I am very tempted but could also do with putting the ££ to a TT specific bike. Or about 10 other bike related things. Need to try that planting the tenner out the back again and see if i can grow some more......


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