# For fork sake....help



## ian westmacott (21 Oct 2012)

Hello guys could do with a bit of help.I Have just recently bought (2nd hand) a Scott scale 40 . With my new trusty steed i have been out and about getting muddy and scaring the crap out of myself on the Malvern hills, whilst catching a quick breather i got talking to a couple of other mtb'ers and they pointed out in a not too tactful way that......and i quote " Nice bike mate, but them dart 2 shocks is sh*t, you should fu*k um off" this lead me to ponder weather they were indeed correct . I have had a look for the specs on a 09 scale 40 and most seem to have fox forks. Now having spend a few £'S on the bike i only have about £110 left to by some forks is it worth me changing the Darts and if so what for ?
any ideas greatfully received, cheers ian.


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## mcshroom (21 Oct 2012)

Forget the 'tactful' comment from the other rider.

Are you enjoying riding the bike as it is? If so keep riding it. Eventually you may want to upgrade but the longer you ride what you have the better you will understand what you want instead if that time comes.


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## Norm (21 Oct 2012)

mcshroom said:


> Are you enjoying riding the bike as it is? If so keep riding it.


This!

I had low-spec forks on my hard tail. I rode the ass out of them (there was only room for a small ass in each leg, obviously!  ) for about 1500 miles, then upgraded when they started to leak and the lock-out wouldn't hold reliably.

If you like the way the bike rides, why listen to anyone else's opinion. There is always someone who will tell you there is something "better" out there but, well, so what? If you like the current set up, then nuts to those who are wanting to spend your money for you.

Here's a thought for you. I've got an early Yamaha Fazer 1000, it's over 10 years old now and has 40k miles on the clock. When they first came out, the bikes were heavily criticised by the press and those who read more than they rode as having poor suspension. However, I never really found it an issue, so I kept going on the standard set up. Finally, after over 35k miles, the rear unit was going off badly, not that it was dangerous but it was telling me that it had served its time carrying me, luggage and pillion, so I went to the local specialist to get new (and rather lovely!) rear suspension fitted. I had a word with the chap there about the front suspension, said I was happy with it but asked if he'd check it out and see if there was anything that needed sorting. He went out for a ride and came back asking what work I'd had done to the front end, saying that most new bikes would struggle to match the way it felt there was little that he'd want to change about it. He was shocked (see what I did there? **groan**) that it was the original unit, completely standard and having been there for the life of the bike.

You know how the Dart 2 shocks feel to you, for your weight, for your riding style on the trails you ride. Sometimes, the armchair reviewers just get it wrong.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (22 Oct 2012)

My general approach has pretty much always been "stuff what the rest of the world thinks" and I would tactfully suggest that if the bike is fine for what you want, and it does what you want it to do (obviously within your limits), then you should adopt the same policy.

I was told I could not tour (camping tour) on one - but I still did so and fell in love with touring. the same bike also did various red runs on mtb courses through out the UK with the pannier rack on it! People looked at me as though I was mad, but I don't care, I was not going to the hassle of taking the rack off everytime I wanted to do a graded route, only to have to put it back on again when I needed the panniers for touring/commuting or long day runs.

Mine did come with the fox shocks though...


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## dan_bo (22 Oct 2012)

Norm said:


> If you like the way the bike rides, why listen to anyone else's opinion. There is always someone who will tell you there is something "better" out there but, well, so what? If you like the current set up, then nuts to those who are wanting to spend your money for you.


 
Damn straight brother.


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## ian westmacott (22 Oct 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys 
Yeah, i get the don't listen to other opinions just because people give them, i get that  what i am concerned about is that having dart 2's on her is lessening the whole scott scale 40 experience. Now i am coming from the angle that my last bike was a 2008 carrera banshee and have decided to go for the Scott Scale to do a few races eg 24h mountain mayhem that kind of thing ,comparing the two bikes the scale feels lithe, nimble , and bloody fast but compared to the 19 kg banshee, it would. Then i ask myself what would it be like with the "propper " fox 32 f100rl forks (or maybee some recon gold tk or similar) on her, would it take it to a different level again. Can a set of dart 2's opposed to the fox 32's make that much difference ?


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## Norm (22 Oct 2012)

Ah, well, if you are racing, that might be a different matter, and beyond my technical abilities.

I went from Suntour XCM to RockShox Recons and I can feel the difference in sag and rebound, the front tyre tracks the ground better, I'd do it again and I'm a porky bastid who gets tired watching XC MTB racing.


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## billflat12 (22 Oct 2012)

dart 2,s are an entry level fork from a respected manufacturer so lack some high end features to keep costs down , maybe reliability could be called into question for a 24hr race , but "if things aint broke why fix em" ? my advice would be to save some cash & buy the best you can afford when they need replacing.


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## Drago (23 Oct 2012)

If you're skills aren't higher than the Darts abilities is be inclined to leave them. They're due a service every 50-100 riding hours, so I'd treat them to a good service and have a beer with the change.

Part of my job is to teach off road skills and to this day I swear that relatively cheapo Rock Shox Tora (spring) are stiffest, best damped and most compliant, if slightly weighty, forks for a heavy rider. Remember my motto - "chrome don't get you home"

Those nobends you met probably couldn't out ride a Grifters abilities so I wouldn't take their no nothing whittling to heart chum.


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## RecordAceFromNew (23 Oct 2012)

ian westmacott said:


> Then i ask myself what would it be like with the "propper " fox 32 f100rl forks (or maybee some recon gold tk or similar) on her, would it take it to a different level again. Can a set of dart 2's opposed to the fox 32's make that much difference ?


 
There are some differences, but to make the best of what you have got you could check/do a few things.

First if the bike was designed/sold with 100mm forks is the Dart a 100mm version given they were also available in 80mm and 120mm? You can check the A2C (the versions should be at around 450/470/500 mm respectively) for that.

Secondly does it have the right springs for your weight? One key advantage of air shocks is easily adjustable spring rate, while for coil shocks like the Dart (or indeed some Recons) you have to swap springs to achieve that. While one can adjust preload to maintain a sensible sag, that only achieves the different objective of maintaining a decent travel range, it does nothing to change the spring rate of coil forks. Most forks come with springs optimised for the average rider. If you are outside the 140-170lbs range for the Dart, changing one or both (if it has two springs) might help if you are bothered. In the Dart’s case yellow spring is standard with black (softer) or red (harder) available for finer optimisation.

Third thing you could check is whether the damping is adjustable and right for you (some Dart 2 are preset, some are turnkey and adjustable)? In either case if you wish you can also modify damping rate by changing oil (with different viscosity) for Dart's Hydracoil system. Fox provides some tips for forks (and rear shock) tuning here.

Fourth is whether the forks are well serviced with good seals and bushings with minimal stiction and do they work as intended. RS has pretty good tech manuals for their forks.

I think many cheaper but reasonable quality coil forks have suboptimal performance because they have wrong springs/damping for the rider and are not suitably maintained.

One advantage of coil over air shocks, is springs are arguably more reliable than air seals, and have a more linear spring rate than an air chamber. Coil shocks are generally heavier however – I suspect the Dart weighs around 2.5kg, while the lightest xc air forks weigh 1kg less.

I still regularly maintain and run my 2001 Judy SL Hydracoil forks on one of my bikes. At 1.7kg it is not even heavier than most air forks.


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## mrandmrspoves (23 Oct 2012)

I agree with the advice above....ignore people who want to pick holes in what you ride, how you ride or what you wear to ride. My friends and I go to Thetford (no hills) and see people with their £3000 bikes, and £1000 kit - we also see kids riding the same routes on their Halford's Kamikazee's ....and they're having as much fun for a fraction of the price. 
Having said that I upgraded the basic Suntour forks on my Cube Attention from XCM - to XCR and then to Epicon's and each time I felt the investment worth the money. The Epicon's are a reasonable air fork - not in the class of their more expensive competitors - but plenty good enough for my riding abilities!
When at Thetford we often see a guy who we indiscreetly snigger at.... he has a very bling carbon frame bike (which is absolutely lovely and makes me jealous!) but we have never seen him riding it - he's always sitting eating or drinking at the cafe. Now the point is that his bike probably weighs half what mine does......but he's carrying about 4 stone too much weight - which is emphasised by his insistence on wearing the spandex stuff!


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## ian westmacott (23 Oct 2012)

Thanks guys, i have solved the problem ....i think . The Darts to be fair are probably good enough for anything i'm gonna do. They have coped with my 13 stone frame coming down from the top of the Malvern hills all 1300 feet of them like a stabbed rat and they seem to cope with that fine ,well i ain't fell of yet!!! ( the races are more fun than proper balls out stuff ) so i guess i'm happy with them. I have made a slight alteration to the bikes forks ....i have just taken the dart 2 stickers of them and to be fair i feel much happier about the whole thing now 
ps. Its nice to be a member of a forum that the responses you get are friendly and informative


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## Norm (23 Oct 2012)

ian westmacott said:


> I have made a slight alteration to the bikes forks ....i have just taken the dart 2 stickers of them and to be fair i feel much happier about the whole thing now


haa haa Perfect response!


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## 02GF74 (24 Oct 2012)

^^^^ sounds like bike snobbery. If you can find any faults with them and they rie well for you. just leave them on - only if you have a go on more expensive forks will you ever know what the limitations of these are and then maybe not.


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## Motozulu (24 Oct 2012)

My bike has the ST XCM's on it and tbf - though I suffer with roxshox envy I can't honestly claim that the XCM's have let me down on the Cannock Red routes, though maybe when I upgrade the bike next year to one with RS air forks I might see what all the fuss is about then.


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