# 650b Mountain bikes holding their value?



## 8mph (30 Jun 2019)

I've recently seen a 2016 Specialized Chisel 650b going for £250 and a GT Elite Avalanche frame and forks going for £70. Both bikes were in superb condition. What's with the crazy low prices? I never see 29ers fetch this little second hand.


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## Drago (30 Jun 2019)

No better or worse than any other wheelsize. 

29ers can be difficult to punt on - people's opinions are even more polarised about them, and in smaller sizes the geometry can be compromised in in order to fit the big hoops in, so they can and do go for low cash on occasion. I had a bit of trouble punting my Carve 29'er on, and took less that I felt it was worth just to finally get it out the door.


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## 8mph (30 Jun 2019)

Drago said:


> No better or worse than any other wheelsize.
> 
> 29ers can be difficult to punt on - people's opinions are even more polarised about them, and in smaller sizes the geometry can be compromised in in order to fit the big hoops in, so they can and do go for low cash on occasion. I had a bit of trouble punting my Carve 29'er on, and took less that I felt it was worth just to finally get it out the door.


I'm not finding any cheap 29ers 
(I shouldn't be looking, I had to sell two bikes this weekend just to get the count down to four!)


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## Blue Hills (30 Jun 2019)

Cheap second hand bikes seems good to me.
I have been led to believe that a lot of old steel things have fallen in price.
Maybe as folk move to the "latest thing" and ebikes?
And anything non triple?
No probs, bikes are for riding.


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## Levo-Lon (30 Jun 2019)

Well im selling an absolute bargain Marin in the FS section and elsewhere but no intrest, the spare wheels and tyres would set you back 450..there ya go, and its a 1.5k bike for 600


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## Drago (30 Jun 2019)

8mph said:


> I'm not finding any cheap 29ers
> (I shouldn't be looking, I had to sell two bikes this weekend just to get the count down to four!)



Several very quickly appear on eBay. I've got them in all 3 sizes, so I'm guaranteed to lose out when selling any of them


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Cheap second hand bikes seems good to me.
> I have been led to believe that a lot of old steel things have fallen in price.
> Maybe as folk move to the "latest thing" and ebikes?.



The uninformed masses don't want steel. Steel is rubbish they say. Steel isn't high-tech. It's all aluminium and plastic, I mean carbon fibre now. Steel bikes are soooo heavy and old-fashioned. And who in their right mind would design a frame made of those skinny tubes that look like they will snap in half if you dare to ride over a tree root on one?. Then there's the archaic practice of sticking them together with molten brass - I mean, who has ever heard a more ridiculous idea?
26" rigid MTB's are rubbish too. The wheels are too small and there's no way a fork without at least 100 mm of suspension travel will be able to cope with really demanding terrain like gravel paths & loose stones.
I think it's great that the masses are shunning steel and shunning 26". It's what enables me to pick up nice 531 bikes for £20/40 and 26 ers for the price of a couple of pints. Long may the ignorance of the masses continue....


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## 8mph (1 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> The uninformed masses don't want steel. Steel is rubbish they say. Steel isn't high-tech. It's all aluminium and plastic, I mean carbon fibre now. Steel bikes are soooo heavy and old-fashioned. And who in their right mind would design a frame made of those skinny tubes that look like they will snap in half if you dare to ride over a tree root on one?. Then there's the archaic practice of sticking them together with molten brass - I mean, who has ever heard a more ridiculous idea?
> 26" rigid MTB's are rubbish too. The wheels are too small and there's no way a fork without at least 100 mm of suspension travel will be able to cope with really demanding terrain like gravel paths & loose stones.
> I think it's great that the masses are shunning steel and shunning 26". It's what enables me to pick up nice 531 bikes for £20/40 and 26 ers for the price of a couple of pints. Long may the ignorance of the masses continue....


I just sold a Specialized Allez (alloy) which I bought at the recycling centre because it was so dull to ride compared to my Carlon Cyclone (531). 
I was very surprised when I weighed the two bikes to find there was less than half a kilo difference.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Jul 2019)

8mph said:


> I just sold a Specialized Allez (alloy) which I bought at the recycling centre because it was so dull to ride compared to my Carlon Cyclone (531). I was very surprised when I weighed the two bikes to find there was less than half a kilo difference.



I'm not that surprised about the weights. When you compare a lot of modern stuff to steel road frames of yesteryear, the alloy tubes and stays are very often twice the size of the old steel frames, thus negating much of the weight saving from using aluminium. They are deliberately designed to be stiff, because if they flex they crack and fail prematurely. There's a place for light alloy on bikes but it isn't in the frame!


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## Phaeton (1 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> Well im selling an absolute bargain Marin in the FS section and elsewhere but no intrest, the spare wheels and tyres would set you back 450..there ya go, and its a 1.5k bike for 600


Problem is there are more people like me who just don't see the value in cycles, I think they are overpriced for what you get. For the £600 you want for your bike I can get a car or a motorbike which clearly has far more moving parts. I'm not saying it's not a good price or that it's worth what you are asking, I just don't see the value in them, the depreciation on a cycle just plummets & then goes down further.


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## 8mph (1 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not that surprised about the weights. When you compare a lot of modern stuff to steel road frames of yesteryear, the alloy tubes and stays are very often twice the size of the old steel frames, thus negating much of the weight saving from using aluminium. They are deliberately designed to be stiff, because if they flex they crack and fail prematurely. There's a place for light alloy on bikes but it isn't in the frame!


I ride a steel Cove Handjob xc off road which is often a couple of kilos lighter than the alloy MTBs which turn up at the dump. I haven't had a chance to ride a decent modern mountain bike yet, as you will know the stuff that crops up at the dump is usually 15 years old or Apollo type stuff.


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## fossyant (1 Jul 2019)

Modern MTB's are very much different from old stuff, very. Totally revised geometry that goes up, and is amazing down. My old 26er is OK for the flat and uphill, but scary as hell down (no suspension, steep angles and poop brakes).


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## 8mph (1 Jul 2019)

fossyant said:


> Modern MTB's are very much different from old stuff, very. Totally revised geometry that goes up, and is amazing down. My old 26er is OK for the flat and uphill, but scary as hell down (no suspension, steep angles and poop brakes).


I used my 26er on a bike tour and while it was great for exploring it was slow going on roads and obviously you get less of a view. Basically, I need about 6 different bikes or I'll never be happy! I'm kind off gagging to have a go on a 29er and see if I like it, 650b, less so.


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## johnblack (2 Jul 2019)

Now that I have a 29er I can say I'm glad of the extra inches, who knew the difference 3 inches could make.


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## Drago (2 Jul 2019)

I'm a fraction under 6'4" and feel just as home on my 26er, 27.5er as I do on my 29er. 

I've always been a roadie in parallel to being a mud plugger and I often wonder if the lack of excitement for me is because I'm thoroughly used to 700c and 27x1 1/4 wheels anyway.


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## SkipdiverJohn (3 Jul 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Problem is there are more people like me who just don't see the value in cycles, I think they are overpriced for what you get. For the £600 you want for your bike I can get a car or a motorbike which clearly has far more moving parts. I'm not saying it's not a good price or that it's worth what you are asking, I just don't see the value in them, the depreciation on a cycle just plummets & then goes down further.



Aside from the fact I don't like many modern bikes anyway, the reason I buy used is you can often pay just a few pennies in the pound of what an equivalent quality bike would cost today, adjusted for inflation. By the time someone drags them out of their garage after having sat there for 25 years, they are already fully depreciated down to virtually nothing. My two 531 framed machines I reckon only cost me about 5% of their new cost to buy, and still no more than 12-15% even after replacing the tyres & brake cables. I can have a whole shed full of vintage steel bikes of various types for the price of just one modern road bike or MTB, and all mine are easy to maintain with low consumable parts prices. No silly money 10/11 speed drivetrains, STI shifters, or proprietary carbon seatposts etc that will only fit one model of bike.



8mph said:


> I ride a steel Cove Handjob xc off road which is often a couple of kilos lighter than the alloy MTBs which turn up at the dump..



I only grab modern hardtail or full-sus BSO junk to strip them of their wheels and any compatible drivetrain stuff. Any wheels bigger than 26" and the frames & forks go back in the skip! My most used hack MTB is an old Apollo though, a rigid 26" steel one, and it's not a bad bike in all honesty. I never spend a penny on it, and just gave it a bearing regrease.



fossyant said:


> My old 26er is OK for the flat and uphill, but scary as hell down (no suspension, steep angles and poop brakes).



A bit of fear is a good thing when riding a bike. it stops you getting too blasé and taking stupid risks. I'm very careful when descending a rough track on a MTB. I pick my route carefully and keep my speed down. I'm not interested in winning races and I don't enjoy falling off! Modern bikes encourage a kamikaze riding style where the rider just ploughs through everything and relies on the suspension to stay out of trouble. When they do come off, the speed will be much higher and more kinetic energy involved. If I'm going to take a tumble I want it to be at a low speed and I don't wear a load of MTB protective armour, just jeans & T shirt.


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## Blue Hills (3 Jul 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> or proprietary carbon seatposts etc that will only fit one model of bike.
> Maybe I am behind the times skipdiver. Are there such things?


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## fossyant (3 Jul 2019)

8mph said:


> I used my 26er on a bike tour and while it was great for exploring it was slow going on roads and obviously you get less of a view. Basically, I need about 6 different bikes or I'll never be happy! I'm kind off gagging to have a go on a 29er and see if I like it, 650b, less so.



I picked up a 29er FS XC bike for my missus recently - that's very light and quick, a fair amount lighter than my trail bike.


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## Levo-Lon (3 Jul 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Problem is there are more people like me who just don't see the value in cycles, I think they are overpriced for what you get. For the £600 you want for your bike I can get a car or a motorbike which clearly has far more moving parts. I'm not saying it's not a good price or that it's worth what you are asking, I just don't see the value in them, the depreciation on a cycle just plummets & then goes down further.




I get your point, sort of.

People who buy at halfords dont biy bikes like mine.

As depreciation? A 50k merc will be 20 k in under 3 yrs
And your 600 quid car will cost more than that in one repair.. Clutch or dpf ect.

I sold my cube for 1200 and i was very happy with that as i paid 2500 in 2015 for it in a sale at Rutland cycles.
I got the marin about 40% off at 899 from Rutland too on xmas eve.
So if i get what i wa t ill be happy as will the recipient.

Its a fast moving market but i love changing cars bikes ect, i had 42 motorcycles lol.. I like a new ride..


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## derrick (3 Jul 2019)

If you are worried about depreciation you can't afford it. I buy bikes to ride,


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> As depreciation? A 50k merc will be 20 k in under 3 yrs.


if you're daft enough to buy a £50K car then you deserve all you get

Edit:- When I say you're I didn't mean you personally


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## Levo-Lon (3 Jul 2019)

Phaeton said:


> if you're daft enough to buy a £50K car then you deserve all you get
> 
> Edit:- When I say you're I didn't mean you personally




But if you earn 150k a year or 50k you tend to have what makes you happy

Ive only bought one brand new motorcycle, a 89 cbr600fk 7 months after i bought it i sold it for a cbr1000 FK..
I got knocked off the cbr and just sold it as a bad omen bike.. And the cbr 1000 was just pure sex..

I only bought second had bikes.. 
Cars ive had new ones every 2 - 3 yrs since 98, i had my fill of fixing bloody cars, warranty only now hence my kia sportwagon


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

Ah, the Cibber thousand, the gentleman's Express.

I'm glad our Kia is going. Not 3 years old and the blooming thing is so badly made it may as well be biodegradable. Britain's 10th best selling car, apparently - I feel sorry for them! And getting Kia to actually believe there's a problem is hard enough, never mind getting them to fix it. The faulty rear wheel bearing they said was "fine" is now rumbling like Eric Pickle's stomach mid morning, but I can't be bothered prodding them any more. If the wheel drops off that's Kia's problem, eejuts.

For my own part, I could buy a new Bentley, but I'm still relatively young anr sods law says I'd get hit by a meteorite tomorrow and need the money for more pressing matters. There must be a sweet spot where age vs risk meet, but I don't think I'm there yet.

I buy older cars for personal use, but because I buy carefully never have to spend any undue amount of time with the spanners. A mediocre euro hatch would be £300 a month new, and I've not yet owned a used car that cost me that much to repair in an entire year. That's a lot of money to spend on fun stuff.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2019)

meta lon said:


> But if you earn 150k a year or 50k you tend to have what makes you happy


Agreed but I cannot think of a number that would make me happy after sending £50K+ on a car, just sold my VFR800 as it was just sat there in the garage doing nothing & that makes me unhappy & that was only £1500


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## Levo-Lon (3 Jul 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Agreed but I cannot think of a number that would make me happy after sending £50K+ on a car, just sold my VFR800 as it was just sat there in the garage doing nothing & that makes me unhappy & that was only £1500



Sold my 98 model vfr 800 for 2700, it was a tidy up use and sell, i made money on it but not much, great bikes


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## Rusty Nails (3 Jul 2019)

8mph said:


> I used my 26er on a bike tour and while it was great for exploring it was slow going on roads and obviously *you get less of a view.* Basically, I need about 6 different bikes or I'll never be happy! I'm kind off gagging to have a go on a 29er and see if I like it, 650b, less so.



How much more of a view can you get from 1.5" extra height?


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

Actually, a mere 3/4 of an inch, as the extra size is diameter, and only the radius sits below the axle. 

If someone is getting a better view its not down to the wheel size.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Actually, a mere 3/4 of an inch,


Senior moment, think again, (29-26)/2=1.5 but what about tyre depth & pressure


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

Ah, sorry, I was thinking of 650B compared to 29. Definitely a senior moment.

Tyre depth and pressure isn't really unique to rim size on MTBs.


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Tyre depth and pressure isn't really unique to rim size on MTBs.


What's the cross sectional on a bike tyre? car tyres have a /xx denoting the profile are all bike tyres square? So 2.25" wide would be 2.25" high?


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## Drago (3 Jul 2019)

I'm not sure. I guess the profile is much the same as the width, but you know I've never thought about it.


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## SkipdiverJohn (3 Jul 2019)

@Blue Hills There certainly are bike model-specific parts like that on some top of the range carbon road machines. It's the latest wheeze to ensure a captive market in spare parts supply, and also control the lifespan of the customers bike. The manufacturers will swear blind it's all about compliance/comfort/performance etc, but anyone with half a brain can see that its really about forcing the owner to buy replacement parts from the manufacturer and not from the cheapest competitor. The manufacturer coud also withdraw spares support and render their customers bikes unmaintainable if they decide they are keeping them on the road too long and not buying enough new bikes. I'm not buying into those sort of proprietry scams, I want parts that are readily available for sensible money and also interchangeable from other makes/models of bike.


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