# Drafting a club run



## Farky (18 Aug 2013)

So a mountain biker drafts a club run. The club get a little messy at a few roundabouts and the mountain biker ends up in the pack of 14 or so riders. One of the older members decides he needs an energy shot which results in him slowing down and becoming inconsistent with his pedalling technique. As a result, the mountain biker crosses wheels (I guess rather than brake) several times; should the club guys have a go at him and ask him to leave the group or would you just do what you could to drop him? Who's at fault, the guys who decides to take on energy whilst in the middle of the group or the mountain biker for not wanting to brake but as a result, crosses wheels.


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## Milzy (18 Aug 2013)

THE MTB is a knobber. Just up the pace & leave him. After all the energy gel will kick in


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## Mo1959 (18 Aug 2013)

If he's good enough to keep up with a club on his MTB, suggest he gets a road bike and join the club.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Aug 2013)

The half wheeler is at fault - not the old guy


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## ohnovino (18 Aug 2013)

Ignore the fact there's a club riding together and what have you got: the old guy tried to eat and ride in traffic, messed it up and then had a go at someone else. That's why I'd slightly side with the MTBer (although he should really avoid getting caught up in club rides, especially one as poorly managed as that).


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## Farky (18 Aug 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> The half wheeler is at fault - not the old guy


 
He was on a 29er...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Aug 2013)

You don't know what half wheeling is then.


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## Farky (18 Aug 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You don't know what half wheeling is then.


Maybe, what club runners refer to as cross wheeling? Your front wheel halfway up their rear???


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Aug 2013)

Farky said:


> Maybe, what club runners refer to as cross wheeling? Your front wheel halfway up their rear???


Half wheeling is sitting in front of the rider next to you forcing a change in pace. By trying to go faster than the rider in front of him, he had no room to brake in and had to take constant avoiding action - thus crossing wheels.

But,it could be argued that the rider trying to eat whilst mid pack is partly to blame, especially if a gap opened in front of him. Yet it also sounds like the MTB rider was just being a dick


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## numbnuts (18 Aug 2013)

Farky said:


> He was on a 29er...


 maybe I should get a 29er .... the only thing that I pass are parked cars


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## Ben M (18 Aug 2013)

Sounds like a slow club.

Also, rule #19.
http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/


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## byegad (18 Aug 2013)

numbnuts said:


> maybe I should get a 29er .... the only thing that I pass are parked cars


 
I pass wind on occasion too!


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## Farky (18 Aug 2013)

Ben M said:


> Sounds like a slow club.
> 
> Also, rule #19.
> http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/



Get you...member of a 'fast' club are we...


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## lukesdad (18 Aug 2013)

Must have been a fecking slow mtber to get caught up in a roadie club run


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## HLaB (18 Aug 2013)

Just up the pace and drop them, asking somebody to leave may cause unnecessary grief for all parties


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## Sittingduck (18 Aug 2013)

I reckon it depends on the speed of the MTBer. If all they did was to continue at a similar pace then the Roadie is to blame but if the MTBer decided to hammer it when they got passed because they got irritated (and you get plenty of folk who do this), then the MTBer is at fault and should just accept that sometime they are going to get passed by a group / club / whatever.

Personally I dislike it if I am on a club run and you get interlopers. Often causes confusion and problems but thankfully it's relatively rare - although has happened in the past two Saturday rides, heh.


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## Mr Haematocrit (18 Aug 2013)

The reality is that the club don't own the road and it was not a closed road event as such the MTB had a right to be there as much as the club. If you don't wish to ride with anyone in your group speed up/slow down/change direction.
The club ride got messy at roundabouts not the MTB, it never would have happened if the club ride did not get messy.

Messy organisation at roundabouts, inconsistent pedaling technique and pace within the group.... Sounds like the MTB is the right person to look towards for these issues.

The person refueling mid pack seemed to have no awareness of his surroundings, or the impact inconsistent pace could have on the group, it was by chance the MTB was involved.

I would kick off if a club had a go at me after doing that lot


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## HLaB (18 Aug 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> Personally I dislike it if I am on a club run and you get interlopers. Often causes confusion and problems but thankfully it's relatively rare - although has happened in the past two Saturday rides, heh.


 
I dont mind when somebody politely asks to tag on but occasionally they dont and its like you describe.


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## dellzeqq (19 Aug 2013)

Farky said:


> So a mountain biker drafts a club run. *The club get a little messy at a few roundabouts and the mountain biker ends up in the pack of 14 or so riders*. One of the older members decides he needs an energy shot which results in him slowing down and becoming inconsistent with his pedalling technique. As a result, the mountain biker crosses wheels (I guess rather than brake) several times; should the club guys have a go at him and ask him to leave the group or would you just do what you could to drop him? Who's at fault, the guys who decides to take on energy whilst in the middle of the group or the mountain biker for not wanting to brake but as a result, crosses wheels.


you don't end up in a pack of 14 riders - you choose to do so.

Occasionally we have people join in with our rides. It's not usually a problem, although part of the club's deal with Fridays members is that everybody around you has third party insurance and the interloper probably doesn't - that would be the same for most clubs. Only twice have we had people make a nuisance of themselves. In the first instance I went to the back and gave the young man a bollocking and he disappeared. In the second instance it took me a while to work out that the person who had the TECs fix three punctures was a freeloader. I told him and his mate to piss off and he spend the rest of the ride messing about at the front - if I had my time again I'd have done the sensible thing and taken him straight off.


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## Rob3rt (22 Aug 2013)

The MTB rider should vacate the paceline or sit just off the back as an act of common courtesy. It has nothing to do with owning the road etc, is it about joining in another groups activity without invite, it is not the done thing, you wouldn't see a load of mates playing football in the park, randomly run into the game, tackle one of them dribble down field and "score" would you?

It would cause no grief to anyone for him to move out of the group. If he was the same pace, he would just sit a static distance from the back and enjoy his ride, if he is slower, the club would leave him behind and he would enjoy his ride, if he is faster, he could overtake and then enjoy his ride.


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## ianrauk (22 Aug 2013)

There is no need what so ever for the MTB to get caught up in the clubs ride.


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## DiddlyDodds (22 Aug 2013)

This thread is the very reason I don't ride with a club. (not that anyone is or should be bothered)


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## Rob3rt (22 Aug 2013)

:S


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## Payneys (23 Aug 2013)

Sorry just seen this thread .... Can I change tack a little ...

I do all my cycling solo - it's just my preference ( or is it I don't have any mates ummm ) anyway is their an etiquette re joing a club ride ? 

I have passed / been passed by club rides whilst out and the thout has crossed my mind to latch on to them but is it ok to or not ?? 

I know technically they can't stop me riding on the road with them but ... 

Any opinions ?


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2013)

Payneys said:


> Sorry just seen this thread .... Can I change tack a little ...
> 
> I do all my cycling solo - it's just my preference ( or is it I don't have any mates ummm ) anyway is their an etiquette re joing a club ride ?
> 
> ...


 

If you want to try club riding, why not just go along to a local clubs intro ride rather than riding around waiting for a club to pass you then jumping in.

The ettiquette is the same as with almost any other activity, if you want to join in, you ask if the group would mind! Don't just plant yourself in the group.


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## StuartG (23 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> The ettiquette is the same as with almost any other activity, if you want to join in, you ask if the group would mind! Don't just plant yourself in the group.


Our club would probably welcome you with open arms. Others would be horrified 'cos it would screw up what they are trying to do.

That's the point - generalising about cycling clubs is rubbish. Its nice to feel welcome and you don't want to annoy people who may be too polite to tell you that. So ask nicely. What's the problem?


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## Profpointy (23 Aug 2013)

going back to the original question, so what happened exactly?
Was the mountain biker sufficiently fit and fast to actually catch up with a pelaton on a club run, and somehow this was bad of him ? How slow were the club then ffs ?

Or, and presumably more likely, the club pelaton caught up with him, and somehow this is his fault, for what, being in the way ?


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2013)

I find it rather odd that people can not work out the etiquette in such circumstances for themselves. If social constructs fail you at any given moment, simply tell yourself "don't be a dick", you should immediately realise what to do.


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## StuartG (23 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I find it rather odd that people can not work out the etiquette in such circumstances for themselves. If social constructs fail you at any given moment, simply tell yourself "don't be a dick", you should immediately realise what to do.


 
Most club cyclists are mentally challenged. Each has a special set. Some its personal hygiene, dress sense, ability to fix a flat, hold an OS map the right way up ... lacking etiquette is a minor aberration and seldom noticed except when exhibited by a guest rider. The only important ability is they can ride, even ride well and they can anticipate and avoid everybody else's incompetence and still be the first to the bar. Hadn't you noticed that?


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## potsy (23 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I find it rather odd that people can not work out the etiquette in such circumstances for themselves. If social constructs fail you at any given moment, simply tell yourself "don't be a dick", you should immediately realise what to do.


This is a mtb'er we're talking about though


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## lukesdad (23 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I find it rather odd that people can not work out the etiquette in such circumstances for themselves. If social constructs fail you at any given moment, simply tell yourself "don't be a dick", you should immediately realise what to do.


 The etiquette is within the group, if you wish to ride as such a group you should be able to deal with what ever situation you encounter, if you as a group don't have such skills you should not be on the highway. Whilst riding at Cannock chase I happened to encounter a roadie nobber on his cross bike, needless to say he was dealt with swiftly and clinnically, his safety was never jeapodised because of his lack of skill.[potsy]


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2013)

I am not talking about group riding etiquette, I am talking about general social etiquette, in the context of joining in another groups activity without asking if it is okay. Group riding skill and internal group etiquette is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.


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## lukesdad (23 Aug 2013)

So in the club general social etiquette of things, when was the last time your band of brothers enquired whether the occaisonal cyclist you encounter would like to join you ? After all its only manners.


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## HLaB (23 Aug 2013)

It's happened to me a couple of times mainly on sportives, when a pack swallows me up, I've been invited to tag on.


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2013)

lukesdad said:


> So in the club general social etiquette of things, when was the last time your band of brothers enquired whether the occaisonal cyclist you encounter would like to join you ? After all its only manners.


 

Since when has it been the social norm that a group ask random people they encounter whether they would like to join them?


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## lukesdad (23 Aug 2013)

HLaB said:


> It's happened to me a couple of times mainly on sportives, when a pack swallows me up, I've been invited to tag on.


 If you were taking part in said sportive thats a little different.


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## lukesdad (23 Aug 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Since when has it been the social norm that a group ask random people they encounter whether they would like to join them?


 See there's the difference with the club I ride with and the one you ride with.


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## Rob3rt (23 Aug 2013)




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## lukesdad (23 Aug 2013)

Oh come on Rob out with your elitest tendancies, we both know why you wouldn't extend an invite to any old Joe


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## G3CWI (23 Aug 2013)

Payneys said:


> I have passed / been passed by club rides whilst out and the thought has crossed my mind to latch on to them but is it ok to or not ??


 
I also ride alone. If I got mixed up in some club ride my first thought would be to turn off as soon as possible. It takes me enough effort to concentrate on my own safety without having to watch out for others.


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## Payneys (24 Aug 2013)

Rob I was just re reading my original question and I am wondering which part of " I usually rode on my own by preference" you failed to comprehend ... I do not solicit myself on the public highway like some tart trying to avail myself of the first club run that comes along..... I am not a member of a club and whilst I am pretty certain I would actaully not give a jot if someone wanted to tag onto my club ride because I would be taking part in said ride as a social occasion which ( not belonging to a club) I believed these rides were .... Obviously In some cases this is not how they are taken ... I will take the line of least resistance and pride and not bother asking I think . I bet your club is very welcoming if the rest of you have the same attitude as yourself ....


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## HLaB (24 Aug 2013)

lukesdad said:


> If you were taking part in said sportive thats a little different.


I said mainly on Sportives, not entirely and its not that much different


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## lukesdad (24 Aug 2013)

But isn't that the nature of sportives ,you are all in it together ?


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## dellzeqq (25 Aug 2013)

lukesdad said:


> So in the club general social etiquette of things, when was the last time your band of brothers enquired whether the occaisonal cyclist you encounter would like to join you ? After all its only manners.


 
we don't see many on the road when we're about, but if somebody (whether riding or not) looks vaguely interested one of us will give them a run-down and suggest a visit to the blogthingy


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## Tim Hall (25 Aug 2013)

dellzeqq said:


> we don't see many on the road when we're about, but if somebody (whether riding or not) looks vaguely interested one of us will give them a run-down and suggest a visit to the blogthingy


 
FD hands out cards, but then he's posh like that. I think his butler carries them for him.


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## Hip Priest (25 Aug 2013)

All the clubs I know have a 'how to join' section on their website.

None of which suggest you turn up unannounced mid-ride and latch on.


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## S1mon (29 Aug 2013)

i used to ride alone joined a club lots to learn when riding in big groups but not what would be classed as difficult... we all make cock ups and are not pros


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