# Tour de France 2016 **SPOILERS**



## rich p (21 Jun 2016)

I warned about spoilers in the title, so it's okay for me to reveal that this year's tour was won by Quintana.
Of the GC contenders I suspect that he's the strongest this year.
Froome - could be close
Contador - ditto, but I think he'll be found out in the mountains
Nibali and Porte - best of the rest? Close but no purito.
Aru - flaky
Pinot, Barguil, Bardet, Alaphillipe - not yet, if ever
Teejay - nah
J Rod - too old

Sprint stages could be tight
Kittel, Cav, Greipel, Kristoff, Sagan, Bouhanni, Matthews et al


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## brommers (21 Jun 2016)

Cycling Weekly has all the stages on one scroll-down page showing the profile and a brief description
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-route-192041


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## Hont (21 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> Nibali and Porte - best of the rest?


A Nibali win would be very bad for cycling methinks. A podium would be bad enough; not even Contador managed that after a Giro win.


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## cisamcgu (21 Jun 2016)

brommers said:


> Cycling Weekly has all the stages on one scroll-down page showing the profile and a brief description
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-route-192041



Flip it looks hilly !!


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## rich p (21 Jun 2016)

Hont said:


> A Nibali win would be very bad for cycling methinks. A podium would be bad enough; not even Contador managed that after a Giro win.


Agreed. I don't think it's likely but the witchfinder's nose would be twitching.


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## Crackle (21 Jun 2016)

Froome or Quintana: I don't think Quintana has got the pure burst of speed but he does seem to get better as the race goes by, so it's a question of whether Froome can manage the time gap his undoubted first attack will bring. And in that rivalry there's room for others to pull some surprises. As usual I have no idea of how this one is going to unfold, which is why i love watching it.


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## Hill Wimp (21 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> I warned about spoilers in the title, so it's okay for me to reveal that this year's tour was won by Quintana.
> Of the GC contenders I suspect that he's the strongest this year.
> Froome - could be close
> Contador - ditto, but I think he'll be found out in the mountains
> ...


Keep it real Rich, i get all my technical knowledge reading this thread each year


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## Dayvo (21 Jun 2016)

Hill Wimp said:


> Keep it real Rich, i get all my technical knowledge reading this thread each year



His _knowledge_ comes from one of these:


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## Hill Wimp (21 Jun 2016)

Dayvo said:


> His _knowledge_ comes from one of these:
> 
> View attachment 132621


and the problem there is ?


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## roadrash (21 Jun 2016)

I have to agree with @rich p , i think quintana will do it this year,in fact i think a few sheckles and groats may change hands at the bookies


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## Bollo (21 Jun 2016)

During the Dauphine coverage Gary Imlach described Sky as a 'military industrial complex', although they seem to have evolved their tactics beyond goose-stepping at the front of the peloton. Unless Froome gets ill, crashes or drowns in Gallic urine I think Sky's team strength will see him in yellow.


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## 400bhp (21 Jun 2016)

Bollo said:


> During the Dauphine coverage Gary Imlach described Sky as a 'military industrial complex', although they seem to have evolved their tactics beyond goose-stepping at the front of the peloton. Unless Froome gets ill, crashes or drowns in Gallic urine I think Sky's team strength will see him in yellow.



Movistar now have, IMO, a stronger team than Sky.


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## brommers (22 Jun 2016)

400bhp said:


> IMO


Sorry, but I'm naïve and green with the terms, but what does IMO stand for?


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## Dogtrousers (22 Jun 2016)

brommers said:


> Sorry, but I'm naïve and green with the terms, but what does IMO stand for?


In My Opinion

Sometime IMHO (humble opinion)


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## rich p (22 Jun 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> In My Opinion
> 
> Sometime IMHO (humble opinion)


For the few humble amongst us


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## Dogtrousers (22 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> I warned about spoilers in the title, so it's okay for me to reveal that this year's tour was won by Quintana.
> Of the GC contenders I suspect that he's the strongest this year.
> Froome - could be close
> Contador - ditto, but I think he'll be found out in the mountains
> ...


IMHO Cav's not getting any younger, and he's distracted by his Olympic obsession. But he's also Cav, so I wouldn't bet against him to picking up a stage. 

Some facts, to add to my worthless opinion...

The Dimension data team 13 rider long list is (from FB) :
Serge Pauwels
Daniel Teklehaimanot
Jaco Venter
Jacques janse van Rensburg
Steve Cummings 
Mark Cavendish
Bernie Eisel
Natnael Berhane
Edvald Boasson Hagen 
Reinardt Janse van Rensburg 
Youcef Reguigui
Mark Renshaw
Tyler Farrar


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## Shadow (22 Jun 2016)

brommers said:


> Sorry, but I'm naïve and green with the terms, but what does IMO stand for?


There is a a whole list of abbreviations and acronyms somewhere on the site. I am unfamiliar with many of them, sometimes causing intense frustration, sometimes casing no grief at all. But it can take ages to find what you are looking for unless its in Shaun's first post!
Ah yes, here it is.


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## Shadow (22 Jun 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> IMHO Cav's not getting any younger.....
> The Dimension data team 13 rider long list is (from FB)



Nor is the rest of the DiDa team, a very experienced bunch. Of those 13, only 2 were born after 1 jan '90. Reguigui only 8 days later and Berhane in jan '91. I hope they include him in the final 9.


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## Crackle (22 Jun 2016)

DiData cleaned up at the Dauphine. The same may be beyond them at the Tour but they do seem very good at playing to their riders strengths which in turn is having a positive effect on performance.


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## Crackle (22 Jun 2016)

Here's Robert Millar's view on how to beat Froome

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author/how-to-beat-chris-froome-at-the-tour-de-france/

He too is predicting a vroom from Froome on the first big mtn stage.


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## Va Va Froome (22 Jun 2016)

Sport! Sport! Sport! Sport!

Football followed by tennis all over our screens. The Tour is the icing on the cake! 

Olympic year as well... What a summer!


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## Apollonius (22 Jun 2016)

Sky team announced. No sprinter, but all the big climbing powerhouses. I think I can discern the plan!


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## Dave Davenport (22 Jun 2016)

Does having Sagan going for the green jersey dilute Tinkoff's ability to support Bertie?


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## 400bhp (22 Jun 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Does having Sagan going for the green jersey dilute Tinkoff's ability to support Bertie?



With Sagan, probably not. He's good enough to forge his own path and, if he needs a lead out train, then that keeps Bertie up front and safe. But, it's one less bloke that will pull on the front.


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2016)

400bhp said:


> Movistar now have, IMO, a stronger team than Sky.



I think you could be right. Quintana this year is also looking like a significantly more mature rider. Never mind the mountains or the time trials, he lost the race on the pan-flat stage two last year. He won't make that mistake again.

I still think there's a question over his form - he looked good at the Route du Sud but that wasn't the same level of test as the Dauphiné. Can't see beyond him or Froome for overall victory though.



Crackle said:


> Here's Robert Millar's view on how to beat Froome
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author/how-to-beat-chris-froome-at-the-tour-de-france/
> 
> He too is predicting a vroom from Froome on the first big mtn stage.



That would be stage eight? But I don't know if they'll wait that long. I think it might even kick off on stage two, which finishes on the Cote de la Glacerie, which looks like an interesting little climb - one for the puncheurs on paper, but remember Froome's show of force on the Mur de Huy last year... 

Stage five could be quite volatile too - third stage in a row over 200km, and three tough climbs in the final 36km.


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## Dave Davenport (26 Jun 2016)

smutchin said:


> I think it might even kick off on stage two, which finishes on the Cote de la Glacerie, which looks like an interesting little climb - one for the puncheurs on paper, but remember Froome's show of force on the Mur de Huy last year...



I've ridden it a couple of times and I don't think it's long or steep enough for Froome to use to any significant advantage. I'll have a good view if he does though as eight of us are staying in the Campanile hotel at the top next weekend


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## smutchin (26 Jun 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I've ridden it a couple of times and I don't think it's long or steep enough for Froome to use to any significant advantage.



Yebbut we all said much the same before the Mur de Huy stage last year, where he took 11 seconds out of Nibali, Tejay and Quintana, 18 seconds out of Contador, 36 seconds out of Bardet, and basically put Pinot out of the race. Maybe not decisive ultimately but a very strong statement of intent and ferocious show of strength. And he'd already taken a minute and a half out of Quintana the day before, so it's not like he needed to attack him, he just did it to make a point. All I'm saying really is I don't think they'll wait for the mountains to start racing - it will be hard and aggressive from day one.

It was the same in 2014 - Nibali attacked the race from the first stage and cranked up the pressure on Froome and Contador, which may well have been a factor in both of them crashing out.



> I'll have a good view if he does though as eight of us are staying in the Campanile hotel at the top next weekend



Cool!


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## Dogtrousers (26 Jun 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I've ridden it a couple of times and I don't think it's long or steep enough for Froome to use to any significant advantage. I'll have a good view if he does though as eight of us are _*staying in the Campanile hotel*_ at the top next weekend


I stayed there in 2013. It was OK. The hill is steep.

Er ...that's all I have to say


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## david k (27 Jun 2016)

Is froome not favourite?


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## suzeworld (27 Jun 2016)

Gawd -- this football is shite ... wish the Tour was in on already! 

For the record, I am rooting for Quintana too.


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## Bollo (27 Jun 2016)

I'm starting to look at the weather for the first two stages. Stage 1 looks like it will be hit by a nasty westerly crosswind, made worse as the route tracks the coast for much of the day. Given that Quintana arguably lost last year's Tour due to a wind-induced split in the peloton on Stage 2, is there scope for it all to kick off even earlier this year? 

(It'll also be in my face for the ride from the ferry at Caen to the finish at Utah Beach. Fecking great )


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## bladesman73 (28 Jun 2016)

who is off to the tour then? i will be in angers for end of s4 and saumur for start of s5. really looking forward to that and a few days of cycling around the loire valley beforehand


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## Bollo (28 Jun 2016)

bladesman73 said:


> who is off to the tour then? i will be in angers for end of s4 and saumur for start of s5. really looking forward to that and a few days of cycling around the loire valley beforehand


End of Stage 1 and start of Stage 2 using the overnight ferry from Pompey.


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## Dave Davenport (28 Jun 2016)

Eight of us are catching the fast cat over Saturday morning, staying in the Campanille hotel just near the finish for two nights then riding down to Ouistreham for the overnight ferry back on Monday. There may be some drinking involved.


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## 400bhp (28 Jun 2016)

Bollo said:


> I'm starting to look at the weather for the first two stages. Stage 1 looks like it will be hit by a nasty westerly crosswind, made worse as the route tracks the coast for much of the day. Given that Quintana arguably lost last year's Tour due to a wind-induced split in the peloton on Stage 2, is there scope for it all to kick off even earlier this year?
> 
> (It'll also be in my face for the ride from the ferry at Caen to the finish at Utah Beach. Fecking great )



Let me tell you, having just come back from Normandy, it's bloody exposed and lumpy around there.


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## brommers (28 Jun 2016)

Dan Mclay has been added to the tour start list. Tinkoff have one place left - I wonder if it will go to Adam Blythe?


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## smutchin (28 Jun 2016)

brommers said:


> Tinkoff have one place left - I wonder if it will go to Adam Blythe?



What's his climbing like? They've already got Sagan for stage-hunting, so they'll probably want the rest of the team to be focused on supporting Contador...


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## brommers (28 Jun 2016)

smutchin said:


> What's his climbing like?


He won the RideLondon Classic in 2014, so has some ability with hills, but not so sure with the mountains.


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## Bollo (28 Jun 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Eight of us are catching the fast cat over Saturday morning, staying in the Campanille hotel just near the finish for two nights then riding down to Ouistreham for the overnight ferry back on Monday. There may be some drinking involved.


We're staying in a BnB just north of St Lo Saturday night and are back on the Sunday-Monday overnight crossing from Ouistreham. Is it a delegation from Sotonia so I know to look out for the kit?


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## smutchin (28 Jun 2016)

Different drummer... 

https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/747758683736670208


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## Dave Davenport (28 Jun 2016)

Bollo said:


> We're staying in a BnB just north of St Lo Saturday night and are back on the Sunday-Monday overnight crossing from Ouistreham. Is it a delegation from Sotonia so I know to look out for the kit?


Most of us are Sotonia members, not sure if anyone will be wearing club kit though, just look out for a bunch of hungover middle aged blokes.


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## Bollo (28 Jun 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Most of us are Sotonia members, not sure if anyone will be wearing club kit though, just look out for a bunch of hungover middle aged blokes.


That won't narrow it down much!  See you there.


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## Archie (28 Jun 2016)

bladesman73 said:


> who is off to the tour then?


Long weekend planned with my daughter in our new (to us) campervan. Plan is see the depart at the Mont, then up to Utah Beach for the finish. Currently wondering how I'll pull it off. 

Sunday is much more chilled, leisurely breakfast then off to Cherbourg for the 2nd stage finish.


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## Crackle (29 Jun 2016)

Bouhanni out due to his hand not recovering from colliding with a set of dentures in his hotel punch up. He needs to take some lessons from The Badger or give up the boxing.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2016)

Quelle pilloque.


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## 7onagrifter (29 Jun 2016)

TDD Qhubeka team looks star-studded!
Berhane (1st tdf) renshaw, cav, EBH, dan tek, pauwels, cummings, bernie h & rensburg should see a few of the black white & green in the pton & breakaways?
I just hope their one of the teams thats got the sprinters & leadouts to put an end to sagans dominance?


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2016)

7onagrifter said:


> TDD Qhubeka team looks star-studded!
> Berhane (1st tdf) renshaw, cav, EBH, dan tek, pauwels, cummings, bernie h & rensburg should see a few of the black white & green in the pton & breakaways?
> I just hope their one of the teams thats got the sprinters & leadouts to put an end to sagans dominance?



Question is, which stage has Cummings earmarked as his? I reckon stage 16 could be a good one to bet on.


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## Bollo (29 Jun 2016)

smutchin said:


> Question is, which stage has Cummings earmarked as his? I reckon stage 16 could be a good one to bet on.


Look for The Chain.


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## themosquitoking (29 Jun 2016)

Crackle said:


> Bouhanni out due to his hand not recovering from colliding with a set of dentures in his hotel punch up. He needs to take some lessons from The Badger or give up the boxing.


Cheers, i've removed him from my velogames team.


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## Bollo (29 Jun 2016)

Bollo said:


> I'm starting to look at the weather for the first two stages. Stage 1 looks like it will be hit by a nasty westerly crosswind, made worse as the route tracks the coast for much of the day. ...
> (It'll also be in my face for the ride from the ferry at Caen to the finish at Utah Beach. Fecking great )


I've just taken a refresher on Météo France and for Stage 1 they're now predicting 25km/hr westerlies on the coast with 55km/hr gusts. I predict entertainment.


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## brommers (29 Jun 2016)

smutchin said:


> Question is, which stage has Cummings earmarked as his? I reckon stage 16 could be a good one to bet on.


You heard it here first. Cummings will get greedy and win 2 stages!


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## Hont (1 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> You heard it here first. Cummings will get greedy and win 2 stages!


Replying for no other reason that if this doesn't come off you won't be able to to delete your post and claim you never said it ;-)


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## brommers (1 Jul 2016)

On the BBC website there is a useful stage by stage analysis by Geraint Thomas


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## albal (1 Jul 2016)

S at in Mt st Michel, it's very quiet. Do not understand. Why? Parked in a field with many others saying the same thing.


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## themosquitoking (1 Jul 2016)

It's quiet but you're with many others?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> It's quiet but you're with many others?


They must be expecting someone else to be interestingly noisy....and then complain about it


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## 400bhp (1 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> They must be expecting someone else to be interestingly noisy....and then complain about it



Bl00dy foreigners no doubt.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (1 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Bl00dy foreigners no doubt.


Sitting here, parked in a field, nobody making a noise. Looking at other people being quiet and parked...

...and then them fecking foreigners start speaking.


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## Bollo (1 Jul 2016)

I'm on the ferry to Caen and its heaving. We're talking all the languages of Europe. It's just beautiful man.


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## bladesman73 (2 Jul 2016)

in parcay les pins just south of le mans. no sign that the tour is passing close by im surprised. good cycling today tho..


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## SWSteve (2 Jul 2016)

So, are we thinking it will get split by echelons and the classics riders make it off the front, or it gets pulled together for Greipel to take yellow?

(I would love if Cav took yellow, but would also be surprised)


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## beastie (2 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> So, are we thinking it will get split by echelons and the classics riders make it off the front, or it gets pulled together for Greipel to take yellow?
> 
> (I would love if Cav took yellow, but would also be surprised)


Surely Kittel is favourite, then Greipel, then Cav. If it is crosswinds then Cavendish will be very interested.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

So Cav says he doesn't think anyone will bother competing with Sagan for the green jersey this year. Is he spouting rubbish or is it a form of rebellion from the riders?


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

Hilarious chaos, already.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

ITV as rubbish as ever. Trying to watch online and it crashes after every ad break.


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> ITV as rubbish as ever. Trying to watch online and it crashes after every ad break.



Least they've got Millar.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Least they've got Millar.


Not for the live commentary, alas.


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Not for the live commentary, alas.



idiots.


coffeejo said:


> So Cav says he doesn't think anyone will bother competing with Sagan for the green jersey this year. Is he spouting rubbish or is it a form of rebellion from the riders?



Cav would be happy with a stage or 2 I think


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## StuAff (2 Jul 2016)

Ned and Millar doing far too good a job on commentary. A nice respite from playing bingo with the deadly duo....


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## deptfordmarmoset (2 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Not for the live commentary, alas.


Millar's live on ITV4.


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## gavroche (2 Jul 2016)

It started. Tv booked for the next 3 weeks.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Good blast of Tour Horn for @Marmion


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## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

Great to see the Tour underway and a 3-2 man break already from the off.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/itv...eam-boulting-and-millar-in-the-commentary-box

No mention of P&P


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

I'm more excited about Ned and David than I am about the race.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Good blast of Tour Horn for @Marmion


Hahaha, I punched the air in celebration when I heard the horns. And then went on to explain to my wife that I was getting one...etc etc. I got ignored.


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## StuAff (2 Jul 2016)

Yes, just checked that page myself. Hooray!! Ned and David did a good job on the Vuelta, I've heard nothing but sensible stuff so far...Daniel Friebe also on board for this year, Matt Rendell's back too. Nice to have people who don't think clipless pedals and integrated shifters are newfangled.....


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Hahaha, I punched the air in celebration when I heard the horns. And then went on to explain to my wife that I was getting one...etc etc. I got ignored.



You told your wife you were getting the horn and she wasn't excited? I'm saying nothing.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Hahaha, I punched the air in celebration when I heard the horns. And then went on to explain to my wife that I was getting one...etc etc. I got ignored.



She won't be able to ignore the horn when you get it (fnaar).


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

StuAff said:


> Yes, just checked that page myself. Hooray!! Ned and David did a good job on the Vuelta, I've heard nothing but sensible stuff so far...



Noticeable lack of Kenya news so far though. Disappointing.


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

As Ned'n'Dave have just observed, Movistar are very noticeable by their presence en masse at the head of the peloton as they get close to the coastal stretch...


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

That's a heck of a crowd for a 1 point KOM. Well done Voss, thought he was flagging too much to get that.


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

No P&P? This thread will be half the size of last year, we'll have to talk about bike racing


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Until they zoomed in on the "La Manche" sand design, I thought someone had drawn a huge cock and balls in the sand.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> No P&P? This thread will be half the size of last year, we'll have to talk about bike racing



We could just recycle previous years' P&Pisms, they'd be the same anyway.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

These shots from Lemoine's bike really show how much work being in the bunch saves.


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

Has any rider ever ridden one of those Mavic bikes from the neutral car?


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Movistar hammering it now. Sky look like they're missing from the front. Tinkoff are there. Katusha involved. BMC chasing on.

Game on!


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Etixx now leading the pack. Time to unleash the Tony!


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

"It ain't over yet."


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Has any rider ever ridden one of those Mavic bikes from the neutral car?


Here's that nobber Jens on one, from the 2010 Tour


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Crash during the break!


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Bertie down!

That looks painful.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Ouch.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Was that Contador and Majka?

Millar says Buchwalter, Bertie and Luke Rowe


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Luke Rowe also went down in the crash


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Looked like Majka avoided it but stopped to help Contador chase back on. Luke Rowe and Brent Bookwalter also went down.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Tommy V using Contador's fall to get some TV time


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Contador doesn't look in a good way. Expect that shoulder is stinging a bit. Lucky he didn't do his collarbone.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Looked like Majka avoided it but stopped to help Contador chase back on. Luke Rowe and Brent Bookwalter also went down.



Ah, I thought I saw Majka there.


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

High speed shoe change - don't try this at home, kids!


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Changing shoes whilst cycling having just donated a load of skin to the tarmac. I quite like riding Le Tour from my sofa.


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## StuAff (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Here's that nobber Jens on one, from the 2010 Tour


And that wasn't one of the regular neutral service bikes either- it was a kids' bike (used in some promotional exercise with juniors riding parts of stages) from the broom wagon, toe clips, junior gearing....


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## Crackle (2 Jul 2016)

The doc is Sideshow Bob


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

StuAff said:


> And that wasn't one of the regular neutral service bikes either- it was a kids' bike (used in some promotional exercise with juniors riding parts of stages) from the broom wagon, toe clips, junior gearing....


I knew there was a story attached to it but couldn't remember what it was, thanks


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## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Inrng on Twitter:
"Loyalty: holding your teammate's insole in your mouth while he changes his shoe"





http://twitter.com/inrng/status/749234561146621953


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## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> "Loyalty: holding your teammate's insole in your mouth while he changes his shoe"




Yebbut, his insoles were probably only a few hours old, unlike your average Cyclechatter's which _could_ be several _years_ old!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Inrng on Twitter:
> "Loyalty: holding your teammate's insole in your mouth while he changes his shoe"
> View attachment 133657
> 
> http://twitter.com/inrng/status/749234561146621953


I thought he was taking the piss out of Tommy V with a tongue impression...


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Vichot drops back to have his cheekbones whittled.


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## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

In a strange '80s flashback, Delaplace's bike colours have more than a touch of La Vie Claire about them.


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## Roadrider48 (2 Jul 2016)

Why did the peloton slow down after Contador crashed?


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## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

Poignant to see a wreck of a WW2 warship in the shallows at Utah Beach.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Poignant to see a wreck of a WW2 warship in the shallows at Utah Beach.


The enormity of the fact that we're seeing visual evidence of the Normandy landings at the same time as we're marking the centenary of the start of the Battle of the Somme is getting to me. Keep going back to Wilfred Owen's "Anthem for Doomed Youth".


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Ned falling into the commentators trap of pondering over whether the breakaway can hang on. No. A Liggett legacy.


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## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

but but tailwind....


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> The enormity of the fact that we're seeing visual evidence of the Normandy landings at the same time as we're marking the centenary of the start of the Battle of the Somme is getting to me. Keep going back to Wilfred Owen's "Anthem for Doomed Youth".



I was fascinated with WW1 poetry when I studied it in the 6th Form.

Owen's _Dulce et Decorum Est _was one of my favourites:

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Ned falling into the commentators trap of pondering over whether the breakaway can hang on. No. A Liggett legacy.


Maybe it was a dare.


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

...


----------



## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

CAV!!!!


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Cav!!!!!


----------



## jarlrmai (2 Jul 2016)

All the journo's breathe a sigh of relief.


----------



## Crackle (2 Jul 2016)

Hectic


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Bloody hell


----------



## Hill Wimp (2 Jul 2016)

Stonkingly superb


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2016)

And the maiilot jaune aussi! 
Zut alors


----------



## StuAff (2 Jul 2016)

Well done Cav. Hope the crashers are OK.


----------



## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> And the maiilot jaune aussi!
> Zut alors



@rich p goes native.

Great sprint. Good work by Sagan and Cav to find themselves strong wheels to follow.


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

Those crashes looked nasty. Hope it was just road rash.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (2 Jul 2016)

Awesome Cav!


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Watching that crash in slow motion is horrendous.


----------



## philk56 (2 Jul 2016)

That was great. Deliberately left him out of my fantasy team so that he would win. Yellow at last


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

I think Juan Antonio Flecha's shirt has still got the price-label on it. And put on seconds before they came on air.


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

Touching interview with Cav.


----------



## david k (2 Jul 2016)

Get in


----------



## Jimidh (2 Jul 2016)

Fantastic seeing Cav in Yellow.

Crash looked nasty at the end.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (2 Jul 2016)

Thomas caught up in the crash, hopefully he is okay. Per the highlights a Sky rider was riding away from it looking okay


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

The Tashkent Terror about to send a message of congratulations to Cav


----------



## Saluki (2 Jul 2016)

It's that time of year again. 1st shouting at the telly incident of the year done. Neighbour was gardening and asked "who is Mark?"


----------



## HF2300 (2 Jul 2016)

Saluki said:


> 1st shooting at the telly incident of the year done.



Wow, hardcore. I normally just shout.


----------



## Keith Oates (2 Jul 2016)

A good race and for Cav to take the win and the yellow jersey made me jump up and cheer. As others have said I hope that the crashers are not seriously injured.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Roadrider48 (2 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Why did the peloton slow down after Contador crashed?


Any ideas, no?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (2 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Any ideas, no?


It's etiquette for the GC riders


----------



## Roadrider48 (2 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> It's etiquette for the GC riders


Thankyou....
Don't see why though, it's a race.


----------



## Shadow (2 Jul 2016)

And for all you nationalistic brit watchers, an excellent start for Dan McLay, finishing in the top 10.


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Of course my wife decided she wanted a lift somewhere with 16km to go so I recorded the finish and have just been catching up... Cracking sprint, so pleased for Cav. Yes, I was also shouting at the telly. Great result for Mclay too.

And then saw one of my clubmates doing a Voeckler* behind Peta Cav during her post race interview.


*getting TV coverage for the jersey but not actually achieving anything. (Thanet RC, in case you're wondering.)


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Kittel on twittel:
"No hard feelings with this 2nd place. Was early in the wind & Cav came fast from the back. Congrats @MarkCavendish!"
http://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status/749279941821403136

Nice.


----------



## Crackle (2 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Thankyou....
> Don't see why though, it's a race.


It would depend on the circumstances. If the race was really on they wouldn't have waited, witness Nibali recently in the Giro when Kruisjwick crashed on the descent, so there isn't one rule fits all.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Any ideas, no?





Supersuperleeds said:


> It's etiquette for the GC riders





Roadrider48 said:


> Thankyou....
> Don't see why though, it's a race.





User said:


> It is like kicking a dropped ball back to the opposition goalkeeper, when the ref has stopped play for an injury.





Crackle said:


> It would depend on the circumstances. If the race was really on they wouldn't have waited, witness Nibali recently in the Giro when Kruisjwick crashed on the descent, so there isn't one rule fits all.



Cancellara made his way to the front and told them to ease off. 

It's stage one, bugger all to be gained really other than draw "bad publicity" as nobbers will bleat on about it being "bad form". I'm all for them taking advantage of any situation and misfortune.


----------



## coffeejo (2 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Kittel on twittel:
> "No hard feelings with this 2nd place. Was early in the wind & Cav came fast from the back. Congrats @MarkCavendish!"
> http://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status/749279941821403136
> 
> Nice.


I do like Kittel. I was in Paris when he beat Cav on the Champs-Élysées and although I was gutted for Mark, Marcel's sheer joy at winning was infectious. His team mates dropped their "how much?" bikes to the ground as though they were BMXs and nearly smothered him with hugs right in front of us. I decided that if Cav was going to "lose", he'd lost to the right bloke.


----------



## Tin Pot (2 Jul 2016)

Watched a few bits this morning but couldn't get inspired by it.


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Watched a few bits this morning but couldn't get inspired by it.



That's nice, dear. Try watching the tennis instead.


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I'm all for them taking advantage of any situation and misfortune.



But not doping! Strange.


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Cancellara made his way to the front and told them to ease off.



Did he? What a nobber. 

Tbh, I thought it was just a natural lull in the racing anyway, because it was still such a long way from the finish. Had the crash happened 30km from the finish, I doubt they would have waited for him.


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Nothing beyond having helpers push sticks through the spokes of other teams' riders.



Or catching a train... That's doing it in style! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_Tour_de_France#Race_details


----------



## SWSteve (2 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> And for all you nationalistic brit watchers, an excellent start for Dan McLay, finishing in the top 10.




Is he the Bora guy who is a big fan of Cofidis' train?


----------



## PpPete (2 Jul 2016)

DanMClay rides for Fortuneo Vital Concept (I think)


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> @rich p goes native.
> 
> Great sprint. Good work by Sagan and Cav to find themselves strong wheels to follow.


Je suis en France, innit...


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Je suis an France, innit...



Est tu une rock star aussi?


----------



## Saluki (2 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Wow, hardcore. I normally just shout.


Predicting text. I did go back and edit


----------



## Roadrider48 (2 Jul 2016)

User said:


> It is like kicking a dropped ball back to the opposition goalkeeper, when the ref has stopped play for an injury.


Similar to not challenging the yellow jersey in the last stage?


----------



## Roadrider48 (2 Jul 2016)

User said:


> There are all sorts of customs and conventions.


Right, gotcha....Thanks


----------



## Bollo (2 Jul 2016)

I've just arrived at the night's accommodation near St Lô after watching today's stage at Sainte Marie du Mont, the last village before the finishing drag down to Utah beach and scene of the first minor crash on the corner. Great atmosphere, 
helped by the local chapter of the CGT Union in full voice and a cosmopolitan crowd. I've quit a few photos but I'll have to get home from to upload them for the proper camera. 

Oleg didn't look happy.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

When are people going to stop using barriers with legs that stick into the road? A lot have been mentioned this year about the risks of motos but surely someone somewhere needs to sort out the barriers. The ones very near the end were non-sticky-outy, but anyone with any knowledge would surely have known there would be a wide-spread peloton travelling at speed jostling for position a lot further out. The non-sticky-out ones also seem to be at an angle which reduces the chances of fans leaning over and causing a crash due to trying to take pics.


----------



## Bollo (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> When are people going to stop using barriers with legs that stick into the road? A lot have been mentioned this year about the risks of motos but surely someone somewhere needs to sort out the barriers. The ones very near the end were non-sticky-outy, but anyone with any knowledge would surely have known there would be a wide-spread peloton travelling at speed jostling for position a lot further out. The non-sticky-out ones also seem to be at an angle which reduces the chances of fans leaning over and causing a crash due to trying to take pics.


We did ride all the way down to the flame rouge and I clocked the barriers as well. The road width felt tight and cameras probably didn't get across the incline down to the beach and the effects of the strong tail wind. The last few kilometres were always going to be double fast.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> We did ride all the way down to the flame rouge and I clocked the barriers as well. The road width felt tight and cameras probably didn't get across the incline down to the beach and the effects of the strong tail wind. The last few kilometres were always going to be double fast.


Just after I posted my "rant" I spotted on twitter that the Association of North American Professional Road Cyclists were calling for footless barriers* in last 3km.

*They say footless barriers I say non-sticky-out ones.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Can anyone beat Sagan tomorrow? I don't think it's a hard enough finish for GVA or Alaphilippe, Matthews is starting to annoy me (but he might stand a chance), maybe EBH? The finish should suit Coquard but I can't see him beating Sagan.


----------



## PpPete (2 Jul 2016)

Depending on when the break is brought back I can see this being one for Spartacus to ping off the front. He'll surely want one stage in his farewell season?


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> maybe EBH?



I was considering that possibility myself. Could be a good bet for a Dimension Data twofer. I've already made my punditry pick though, so I'll stick by it.

I also think the finish tomorrow is going to be tougher than some people are giving it credit for. Including Mathews.


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2016)

PpPete said:


> Depending on when the break is brought back I can see this being one for Spartacus to ping off the front. He'll surely want one stage in his farewell season?



The stage finishing in Berne looks like it's been designed with him in mind.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2016)

Fab has no effing chance. I may be a bit pissed but you heard it here first, or second or whatever...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

Morkov's bike is a bit beat up






He starts tomorrow tho


----------



## Dogtrousers (2 Jul 2016)

I rode up l la Glacerie a couple of days ago. Its really not much of a hill. I don't think I used my bottom gear and I'm a useless lump.

Amusingly my friend who was meeting us at the top was driving in the slow moving traffic and we had a DS style conversation. I did consider casually holding on to the window frame, but a quick "what could possibly go wrong" analysis persuaded me otherwise.


----------



## rich p (2 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I rode up l la Glacerie a couple of days ago. Its really not much of a hill. I don't think I used my bottom gear and I'm a useless lump.
> 
> Amusingly my friend who was meeting us at the top was driving in the slow moving traffic and we had a DS style conversation. I did consider casually holding on to the window frame, but a quick "what could possibly go wrong" analysis persuaded me otherwise.


 great post!


----------



## themosquitoking (2 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Morkov's bike is a bit beat up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why do his wheels have zips?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Did it get wet?


It melted. one drop of melty thingy stuff


----------



## ColinJ (2 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I was fascinated with WW1 poetry when I studied it in the 6th Form.
> 
> Owen's _Dulce et Decorum Est _was one of my favourites:
> 
> http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html


My stepdaughter rang me a couple of years ago. She was doing a cryptic crossword with her grandmother and they were stuck on one clue. I can't remember the details but I realised that it was a reference to _Dulce et Decorum est_. I was online at the time and it only took me a few seconds to remind myself of the relevant line in the poem and tell them the answer. They were suitably impressed!  (I heard stepsprog say "_See, I told you Colin is brainy!_", but granny's response of "_Well, he clearly isn't quite as stupid as I thought he was!_" rather took the shine off that compliment! )

Anyway - back to the TdF - I'm about 8 hours late, having only just watched my recording of the highlights, but ...

_*CAV!!!!!!!!!!!
*_


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Saluki said:


> Predicting text. I did go back and edit



You have a predictive text filter that prefers shooting to shouting? Still hardcore (and quite scary).


----------



## coffeejo (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You have a predictive text filter that prefers shooting to shouting? Still hardcore (and quite scary).


A friend's dictation software translated cross stitch to crotch text yesterday. I didn't ask why.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Cancellara made his way to the front and told them to ease off..





smutchin said:


> Did he? What a nobber. Tbh, I thought it was just a natural lull in the racing anyway, because it was still such a long way from the finish. Had the crash happened 30km from the finish, I doubt they would have waited for him.



I hadn't realised that (Cancellara). I thought it was just a lull in the race as well, perhaps head- or crosswind induced; and a lot of the press seem to have thought the same. Probably didn't make that much difference, if any, though.

There's a spectator video floating around that shows Contador's bike slide out from under him as they entered the junction well before the island, taking out Bookwalter. Rowe slightly bizarrely arrives later and appears to be able to make the turn, then rides into the island and them - a case of going where you're looking?


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Ælfrēd



Is this a cake reference?


----------



## coffeejo (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Is this a cake reference?


It's always a cake reference (before anyone else says it).


----------



## brommers (3 Jul 2016)

Cummings leading the peloton. Interesting!


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I also think the finish tomorrow is going to be tougher than some people are giving it credit for. Including Mathews.



After reading Inrng's stage preview this morning with more detail about that final climb, I'm no longer so sure about this. Oh well! 

Anyway, should be an interesting finish either way.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Bertie in the wars again. Not looking like his event this year.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> After reading Inrng's stage preview this morning with more detail about that final climb, I'm no longer so sure about this. Oh well!
> 
> Anyway, should be an interesting finish either way.



Well, the fact it looks like a Peter Sagan finish probably means it won't be! Could be a bit of a lottery particularly if the GC decide to get involved. If it does get thinned out round the roundabout and up through the houses might that give a few a chance to break off the front?


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

These Alpecin adverts with the shower interruption are quite something


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (3 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> A friend's dictation software translated cross stitch to crotch text yesterday. I didn't ask why.


I recorded the stage with subtitles by mistake. Just after mention of the Dauphinais I was introduced to Gerald Italia! Subtitles off for today.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> When are people going to stop using barriers with legs that stick into the road ... an angle which reduces the chances of fans leaning over and causing a crash due to trying to take pics.



I read a couple of reports this morning that said he thought he hit spectators, or 'something sticking out from spectators' (!)


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2016)

Is it just me who's getting the new Orica kit mixed up with Movistar?


----------



## Crackle (3 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Is it just me who's getting the new Orica kit mixed up with Movistar?


No. My brain hasn't adjusted either


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Is it just me who's getting the new Orica kit mixed up with Movistar?




Don't like it. Much preferred the kit with large white sections. 

Why is everyone looking for dark colours!


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Why is everyone looking for dark colours!



Goths


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

'False flat' (copyright P&P)


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Goths


Matthew Harley Goth's riding for OnePro now, HF


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Well, the fact it looks like a Peter Sagan finish probably means it won't be!



I take it all back...


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (3 Jul 2016)

This is the first stage I have seen this year!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Jul 2016)

Looks like Bertie needs to eat a steak tonight. Unlucky for Porte.


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Looked as though Sagan was being clever backing off and then going again.


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

I can't believe I didn't pick Valverde in the pundit thread. Obvious finish for him


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> This is the first stage I have seen this year!


Well you've only missed one then


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Jul 2016)

Sagan didn't know he had won.


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

Sagan did well, he seemed to wait for others to go before opening up. 

Porte seemed to be dropped by his team, surely there was someone who could have helped.


----------



## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2016)

etiquette


Supersuperleeds said:


> Sagan didn't know he had won.



If that's true then crazy he might have won by more.

Bad luck for Porte.


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

This Sagan character is pretty handy. Almost any stage, any time throughout the year and he is in the mix.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> etiquette
> 
> 
> If that's true then crazy he might have won by more.
> ...


I might have misheard him but I thought he said he thought there were two riders still ahead of him


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (3 Jul 2016)

Yet another incomprehensible interview with Cav on ITV4!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Sagan did well, he seemed to wait for others to go before opening up.
> 
> Porte seemed to be dropped by his team, surely there was someone who could have helped.



ITV commentary said BMC were going for the stage win which is why they didn't drop back to help him, which probably means BMC don't think Porte is a genuine GC contender.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Yet another incomprehensible interview with Cav on ITV4!



It was a phenomenal interview


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2016)

Froome and Quintana are the big winners today. 

And Tejay.


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> ITV commentary said BMC were going for the stage win which is why they didn't drop back to help him, which probably means BMC don't think Porte is a genuine GC contender.



there only seemed to be one rider with him at the front. The notion none of the other 5 could help was bizarre.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (3 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> It was a phenomenal interview



As usual I could hardly make out a word he said so I'll take your word for it!


----------



## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Froome and Quintana are the big winners today.



Looked strong, didn't they? In a way some others, despite losing little or no time, perhaps didn't.

Contador the big GC loser - odds on an abandon if things continue this way?


----------



## Big Dave laaa (3 Jul 2016)

Contador will be up to his eyeballs on Tramadol for the pain. The knock on effect is a dulling of the reflexes so crashing again is always a possibility. Either that or he's particularly unlucky.


----------



## Crackle (3 Jul 2016)

GMC not having someone with Porte is either poor planning or an indication of how they see his chances and as usual he has his customary good luck in a GT.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Looked strong, didn't they? In a way some others, despite losing little or no time, perhaps didn't.



Not sure we can read anything much into today's result beyond it probably being game over for Contador and Porte, but both Froome and Quintana looked vey comfortable today, and conspicuous by their presence towards the front of the pack. Ominous.


----------



## smutchin (3 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> BMC don't think Porte is a genuine GC contender.


 
Nor do the rest of the peloton, apparently...



Roadrider48 said:


> Why did the peloton slow down after Contador crashed?





Supersuperleeds said:


> It's etiquette for the GC riders


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> GMC not having someone with Porte is either poor planning or an indication of how they see his chances and as usual he has his customary good luck in a GT.


I think the General Medical Council would be of more use to Bertie than Richie...


----------



## Crackle (3 Jul 2016)

A b, a b, my keyboard for a b.


----------



## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> A b, a b, my keyboard for a b.


One b, or not one b...


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

Interesting interview from Sagan

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sag...e-yellow-but-is-critical-of-dangerous-riding/


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Jul 2016)

They seem quite good buddies


----------



## SWSteve (3 Jul 2016)

im going to take this moment to highlight that Vichot is currently on the same time as Froome. 19 more stages for him to stay like this


----------



## suzeworld (3 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I'm more excited about Ned and David than I am about the race.


Me too - lovely duo 

tho Ned proved he needs to get more experience in commenting on bunch sprints!


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2016)

Starting at Gggranville today...
Ouvert toutes l'heures
Unlike France, where I am, and it's virtually closed all day Monday


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> GMC not having someone with Porte is either poor planning or an indication of how they see his chances and as usual he has his customary good luck in a GT.



A problem so close to the end is unfortunate, but it happens and you make your own luck - it wouldn't have been bad luck had anyone been with him, or a team car been handy. Difficult to explain why he didn't have the support, unless as you say it's a reflection of their half-hearted backing - but then, it may just be c0ck-up rather than conspiracy.



smutchin said:


> Not sure we can read anything much into today's result beyond it probably being game over for Contador and Porte, but both Froome and Quintana looked vey comfortable today, and conspicuous by their presence towards the front of the pack. Ominous.



48 secs down on GC might not be thought too bad, can change in a flash in the mountains, and he's potentially got a few stages to recover; though it's not looking like his race so far. Porte's in worse trouble at knocking on another minute down and his customary terrible day still to come.



ItsSteveLovell said:


> I'm going to take this moment to highlight that Vichot is currently on the same time as Froome.



But then, so are 22 other riders, including in the French ranks Barguil, Gallopin and Rolland - and Alaphilippe's ahead...


----------



## perplexed (4 Jul 2016)

As is Valverde.... eek!


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> 48 secs down on GC might not be thought too bad, can change in a flash in the mountains, and he's potentially got a few stages to recover



If we were talking about the Contador of a few years ago, maybe, but his performances so far this year suggest he hasn't got that killer blow in his arsenal any more - maybe against lesser opposition, perhaps, but not Froome and Quintana. Today and tomorrow should be OK for him, but the last 50km of stage five are seriously tough and he won't have fully recovered by then, so I can see him losing more time there.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> im going to take this moment to highlight that Vichot is currently on the same time as Froome. 19 more stages for him to stay like this



It won't be long before he has a strop, tells his mum she's ruining his life and goes up to his room to play his guitar, read Camus and write crap poetry.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> They seem quite good buddies



Although Greg is conspicuously keeping his fingers out of biting range.


----------



## suzeworld (4 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> When are people going to stop using barriers with legs that stick into the road? A lot have been mentioned this year about the risks of motos but surely someone somewhere needs to sort out the barriers. The ones very near the end were non-sticky-outy, but anyone with any knowledge would surely have known there would be a wide-spread peloton travelling at speed jostling for position a lot further out. The non-sticky-out ones also seem to be at an angle which reduces the chances of fans leaning over and causing a crash due to trying to take pics.



I see The ITV 4 team are following your comments and using them to write their own material!


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> If we were talking about the Contador of a few years ago, maybe, but his performances so far this year suggest he hasn't got that killer blow in his arsenal any more - maybe against lesser opposition, perhaps, but not Froome and Quintana. Today and tomorrow should be OK for him, but the last 50km of stage five are seriously tough and he won't have fully recovered by then, so I can see him losing more time there.



Yep, true enough. I suppose I'm more thinking accidents / anything can happen, rather than an out of steak Contador can wipe the floor with an in-form Froome and Quintana.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Yep, true enough. I suppose I'm more thinking accidents / anything can happen, rather than an out of steak Contador can wipe the floor with an in-form Froome and Quintana.



Indeed - long way to go yet, plenty of time for Froome and Quintana to crash out themselves!

Will be interesting to see what happens to Contador. We know he's not a quitter, so if he can keep going through the pain, stay out of further trouble and recover by week three, maybe he'll recalibrate his aims to picking up a stage win or two in the Alps?


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Will be interesting to see what happens to Contador. We know he's not a quitter, so if he can keep going through the pain, stay out of further trouble and recover by week three, maybe he'll recalibrate his aims to picking up a stage win or two in the Alps?


Rather interesting comment from someone yesterday (sorry, I was channel-hopping between ITV4, France 2 - HD, fewer adverts, more interviews with people in team cars and so on, but dopier presenters - Eurosport 1 and RAI Sport 1...) about Tinkoff riding on the front for their _team leader_ Peter Sagan. Slip of the tongue or is Oleg bored with beefy Bertie?


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> tho Ned proved he needs to get more experience in commenting on bunch sprints!


I particularly liked the commentary on the breakaway intermediate non-sprint where he failed to realise they were rolling through the line until they did... oops!


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> ITV as rubbish as ever. Trying to watch online and it crashes after every ad break.


The year where I watched online (flat with shared aerial and ITV4's mux filtered out...), they were incomprehensibly broadcasting the ads at a higher bitrate than the show: my mobile broadband was good enough for the show but the ads killed it every time.



StuAff said:


> Daniel Friebe also on board for this year, Matt Rendell's back too. Nice to have people who don't think clipless pedals and integrated shifters are newfangled.....


No, just wrong 

Hadn't Matt Rendell gone to Movistar as press officer? Ah yes, he left on 5 April and calls it "brief and often frustrating" in https://mobile.twitter.com/mrendell/status/748270793033920514



smutchin said:


> Is it just me who's getting the new Orica kit mixed up with Movistar?


And is the new name "Orica *Bike Exchange*" a dig at Richie Porte or a public offer? 

Right, I've caught up now, so as you were!


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Back from that there France now. I won't stink up the place with lots of jabber, but here are a few pictures from Stage 1




Tour Sculpture




Norman Hipsters




Oleg Tinkoff does not want his photo taken.




Retro shirts




Delaplace and Howes about to be caught.




Delaplace grits his teeth.




The peloton arrives.




And leaves.




Calling for backup.




Backup arrives.


----------



## brommers (4 Jul 2016)

Great pictures


----------



## Hont (4 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> GMC not having someone with Porte......A b, a b, my keyboard for a b.


If it had been GMC, I think he would have limited his losses...


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (4 Jul 2016)

Why do they let Teams wear yellow for the TDF?

It makes it very difficult to see where the race leader is in the Peloton.

Graham


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Why do they let Teams wear yellow for the TDF?
> It makes it very difficult to see where the race leader is in the Peloton.



The ONCE team used to swap their yellow kit for a pink version for the Tour. Mind you, in those days, they were swapping their blood every day as well, so swapping their kit was no big deal by comparison. #epicbantz


----------



## coffeejo (4 Jul 2016)

"Voeckler's going home..."

Probably got time to stop for a cuppa since the peloton is taking it easy*.

* by easy, I mean would leave me in an ambulance within five minutes.


----------



## Basil.B (4 Jul 2016)

Go Voeckler!


----------



## SWSteve (4 Jul 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Why do they let Teams wear yellow for the TDF?
> 
> It makes it very difficult to see where the race leader is in the Peloton.
> 
> Graham




Tinkoff used to wear a proper yellow, then swapped to the flouro kit for the tour *last/one year* and seem to have never swapped back


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Why do they let Teams wear yellow for the TDF?


Because having teams continually change their kits to avoid the yellow (France, Britain, Yorkshire, many ASO races ...), red (Spain), pink (Italy, Portugal, ...), green (Catalonia), blue (Trentino), yellow+blue (Dauphiné), or whatever leader's jersey would make it very difficult to identify riders from race to race. Then what about the mountains, points, U23 and maybe sprints jerseys? No, it's confusing enough that teams are allowed one kit change a year, although most now restrict that to slight variations on their main kit.


----------



## BrumJim (4 Jul 2016)

Brown?

Strangely, I can only find five countries that have brown in their flag, and in all cases, it is the colour of an object, rather than part of the livery. And one of them isn't Lebanon.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (4 Jul 2016)

BrumJim said:


> Brown?
> 
> Strangely, I can only find two countries that have brown in their flag, and in both cases, it is the colour of an object, rather than part of the livery. And one of them isn't Lebanon.



They are the AGR2 La Mondials' of this world?


----------



## Louch (4 Jul 2016)

Slooooooooooooow day today


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (4 Jul 2016)

BrumJim said:


> Brown?
> 
> Strangely, I can only find five countries that have brown in their flag, and in all cases, it is the colour of an object, rather than part of the livery. And one of them isn't Lebanon.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flags_by_color_combination


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

Thomas feckin' Voeckler. Flappy-tongued wainquer.


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

BrumJim said:


> Brown?



Do you remember the Footon-Servetto kit that briefly appeared in the peloton in 2010? Possibly the worst kit ever invented. They changed sponsor the following year, thank god.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Cav?


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

Greipel I thought, but vid looks Cav. What about that swerve from Greipel though?


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Cav!


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Confirmed.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (4 Jul 2016)

Cav has it!


----------



## Twizit (4 Jul 2016)

get in


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

Great track technique from Cav!


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2016)

Good third from Coquard


----------



## smutchin (4 Jul 2016)

Amazing finish by Cav. Thought Greipel had it. 

What on earth happened to Kittel? Came in 7th despite what looked like a perfect lead out. 

Coquard was coming up very fast at the end but left it too late, perhaps?


----------



## Hill Wimp (4 Jul 2016)

Wow.

Superb Cav just superb !


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (4 Jul 2016)

One of the closest finishes in TdF history surely??


----------



## Crackle (4 Jul 2016)

What's happened to Kristoff, he seems to be nowhere at the moment.


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2016)

Gosh! Watched the dénouement on the ferry with about 50 other cyclists. The roar was stirring!


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> One of the closest finishes in TdF history surely??



Don't know, photo finish came in mid-50s and there have been quite a few tight ones since then.


----------



## Louch (4 Jul 2016)

Great end to a long dull stage


----------



## Hont (4 Jul 2016)

Level with Le Blaireau now.


----------



## rich p (4 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> Level with Le Blaireau now.


I'm aware that Cav v. Hinault and Merckx is chalk and cheese in terms of stage win style, but Cav's record is truly astonishing, isn't it? 
I'm happy to admit that I didn't think he had it in him to win this sort of stage anymore. But so pleased that he can.
We'll not see the like of him again in a British vest.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I'm aware that Cav v. Hinault and Merckx is chalk and cheese in terms of stage win style, but Cav's record is truly astonishing, isn't it?
> I'm happy to admit that I didn't think he had it in him to win this sort of stage anymore. But so pleased that he can.
> We'll not see the like of him again in a British vest.



It'll be one of these come the break-up of the union:


----------



## HF2300 (4 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> What on earth happened to Kittel? Came in 7th despite what looked like a perfect lead out.



Just watching the last few km again, at times the leadout looked very organised but I think they suffered from trying to run an organised leadout at a chaotic finish. They seemed to get swamped or split up several times and re-grouped, then on the last bend you could see Kittel separated from his leadout man (who pulled off shaking his head in despair) and everyone else came round them. Kittel tried hard in the sprint, but I think he was coming from too far back by then.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Seeing as it's quiet, here are some snaps from the start of Stage 2 at St Lô. We managed to hang around the team bus park and I geeked out on the bikes while my ride chum Jim fought his way to the Dimension Data and Sky barriers to harass the riders. Getting to the départ was just too tight with bikes.




You stay classy Team Sky




Lovely lady smiling through the rain.




Police Motos




Katyusha 'Spares'




It's ridiculous how close you're allowed to get. One of Cav's spare bikes. I think this had a 27-tooth big sprocket fitted. Jesus Cav, why not just fit a triple? ;-P




Sir Dave, Prince Albert of Monaco and Jöel Bouzou. You’ll have to look him up.




Warren Barguil




Daniel Teklehaimanot




Impromptu Duathlon


----------



## Dogtrousers (4 Jul 2016)

Interesting stuff from Bernie Eisel on the subject of lead outs and clashes between sprint teams and other teams protecting their GC riders.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-fight-for-position-just-getting-ridiculous-says-eisel


----------



## PpPete (4 Jul 2016)

Surprised the Badger looked quite so delighted when he shook Cav's hand on the podium. Must be going soft in his old age.


----------



## Shadow (4 Jul 2016)

And for all you nationalistic brit watchers, another excellent stage for Dan McLay, finishing in the top 10.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


>



Jarlinson. If I could choose a new name this would be it. It is so Manc.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

PpPete said:


> Surprised the Badger looked quite so delighted when he shook Cav's hand on the podium. Must be going soft in his old age.


I think I read somewhere that le blaireau is an admirer and they're quite friendly. He sees Cav as the sort of racer that France should have been producing in the last 30 years.


----------



## brommers (4 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> We'll not see the like of him again in a British vest.


You'll never see the like of him again in any vest.


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Interesting stuff from Bernie Eisel on the subject of lead outs and clashes between sprint teams and other teams protecting their GC riders.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-fight-for-position-just-getting-ridiculous-says-eisel


Inrng's take. For once on the internet it's worth reading the comments.

http://inrng.com/2016/07/rethinking-the-3km-rule/#more-29114


----------



## Bollo (4 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> You'll never see the like of him again in any vest.


He'll catch this death of cold.


----------



## mjr (4 Jul 2016)

PpPete said:


> Surprised the Badger looked quite so delighted when he shook Cav's hand on the podium. Must be going soft in his old age.


Nah, it was pleasure at having a chance to injure Cav's hand before he overtakes him for all-time wins. The badger's learned recently that sprinters stop riding for injured hands, unlike him, who famously rode on with just a small hole in his head...


----------



## suzeworld (5 Jul 2016)

Surely bunch sprints have always been chaotic and full of accidents?


----------



## Crackle (5 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Surely bunch sprints have always been chaotic and full of accidents?


Oh yeah, just ask Djamolidine Abdoujaparov, still the best name ever and probably the best somersault ever.


----------



## Aravis (5 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Surely bunch sprints have always been chaotic and full of accidents?


The excellent Andre Darrigade touched on this in yesterday's highlights. 87? I thought he looked fantastic, as though he could ride the tour route now.


----------



## HF2300 (5 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Mad Doug Biker said:
> 
> 
> > One of the closest finishes in TdF history surely??
> ...



...As shown by today's finish!


----------



## HF2300 (5 Jul 2016)

McLay in the top 10 again.


----------



## Crackle (5 Jul 2016)

Wasn't expecting Kittel to win that uphill run in, chapeau.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2016)

Where the absolute feck did that nobber Greipel disappear to? Useless twonk.


----------



## HF2300 (5 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Where the absolute feck did that nobber Greipel disappear to? Useless twonk.



Marmy, don't beat about the bush, say what you mean.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (5 Jul 2016)

Cavendish was saying that someone crashed at about 5km to go

'Not deliberately or anything'


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (5 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ...As shown by today's finish!



Indeed, I take it all back from yesterday!!


----------



## Dayvo (5 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Have you been placing bets again?



Probably his 'fantasy' team's reputation is at stake. And his own, notwithstanding.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Have you been placing bets again?


Unfortunately. The big German nobber.


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Wasn't expecting Kittel to win that uphill run in, chapeau.



Oh, ye of little faith!

(As the only person to pick him in the punditry, I feel entitled to a little smugness. More luck than judgment though, obviously.)


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> (As the only person to pick him in the punditry, I feel entitled to a little smugness. More luck than judgment though, obviously.)



Sorry to burst your smug-bubble, but you were not the only one - Mr @roadrash had him as well.

I've re-checked all scores from previous stages and added the totals, and am now off for a wee run and then I'll update the scores later.


----------



## Crackle (5 Jul 2016)

I thought he said a run!


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Sorry to burst your smug-bubble, but you were not the only one - Mr @roadrash had him as well.



Ah! He did his picks after me. Copying me, obviously.


----------



## Louch (5 Jul 2016)

Getting really annoying the post race interviews asking cav really stupid questions, then blaming him when he gives ratty answers


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2016)

Why was Voekler given the Prix de la Combativitie? A fella spends all day in a break causing the stage to take forever, and then Voekler wins. 

It's just not right


----------



## mjr (5 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Why was Voekler given the Prix de la Combativitie? A fella spends all day in a break causing the stage to take forever, and then Voekler wins.
> 
> It's just not right


The only reason Fonseca went on a breakaway was it was the stage nearest home and he wasn't setting the road alight, whereas the Gurner crossed the gap to him in seven minutes or something like that and put a bit of interest into the race.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Why was Voekler given the Prix de la Combativitie? A fella spends all day in a break causing the stage to take forever, and then Voekler wins.
> 
> It's just not right


Voted for by housewives, the panel is chaired by @rich p


----------



## jarlrmai (5 Jul 2016)

Most combative elbows.


----------



## roadrash (5 Jul 2016)

in unarmed combat tommy v could kill you with his tongue


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Voted for by housewives, the panel is chaired by @rich p


It'll probs be discussed on Woman's Hour tomoz. 
There's been three sportsmen known as the housewives' choice that I can recall. 
Tommy V, Richard doper Virenque and Lester Piggot...
...What a trio!


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> It'll probs be discussed on Woman's Hour tomoz.
> There's been three sportsmen known as the housewives' choice that I can recall.
> Tommy V, Richard doper Virenque and Lester Piggot...
> ...What a trio!




Verinque of the Festina Watch adverts?


----------



## rich p (5 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Verinque of the Festina Watch adverts?


I know, the irony is breathtaking!


----------



## RedRider (5 Jul 2016)

These velon.cc onboard daily stage highlight packages are good fun. From today...


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2016)

I know the French aren't keen on team Sky but near the finish of stage 2 'F#CK SKY' was written right across the road and quite a few French spectators were booing the Sky riders and vehicles, thought that was a bit out of order.


----------



## Bonus (5 Jul 2016)

Well out of order. :-(


----------



## themosquitoking (5 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I know the French aren't keen on team Sky but near the finish of stage 2 '*F#CK SKY*' was written right across the road and quite a few French spectators were booing the Sky riders and vehicles, thought that was a bit out of order.


In English?


----------



## Dave Davenport (5 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> In English?


Yep


----------



## Bollo (5 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> In English?


Not quite. The silly foreigners spelled it with a # instead of a 'U' by the looks of things.


----------



## themosquitoking (5 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Yep


The French must really hate a thing if they spell it in Engish.


----------



## Louch (5 Jul 2016)

Given their dominance and soo long since a French winner, it's hardly a surprise. Surprised sky haven't went for a French gc rider to gather more favor in France


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I know the French aren't keen on team Sky but near the finish of stage 2 'F#CK SKY' was written right across the road and quite a few French spectators were booing the Sky riders and vehicles, thought that was a bit out of order.




Probably because they have an awesome mustang, not some dump skoda*

*Nothing wrong with Skoda, but Sky have a MUSTANG


----------



## SWSteve (5 Jul 2016)

The French love swearing in English. Just listen to their bullshoot radio


----------



## Bollo (5 Jul 2016)

I was expecting a little bit of antipathy given our recent finger to Yerp but everyone we met was friendly enough. When the Sky Death Star rolled through Ste Marie du Mont on the first day it got the same reception as all the other team buses and there was no booing. Every country has its planks I suppose.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (5 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Given their dominance and soo long since a French winner, it's hardly a surprise. Surprised sky haven't went for a French gc rider to gather more favor in France


I think they have tried but they've stayed put. Was it Thibault Pinot they were courting but he stayed with FDJ?


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2016)

There have been rumours about both Pinot and Barguil joining Sky, but why would they? The big question for any French rider with GC ambitions is whether they'd get the chance to lead the team at the Tour while Chris Froome is around. (Clue: they wouldn't)

Brailsford has said in the past that he'd like to win the Tour with a French rider but more as a hypothetical nice thing to happen than a genuine target.


----------



## brommers (5 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Pinot and Barguil


They won't be within 10 minutes of Froome in Paris, so why would Sky want them?


----------



## smutchin (5 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> They won't be within 10 minutes of Froome in Paris, so why would Sky want them?



One obvious reason is that they would both be very useful domestiques for Froome. But clearly Pinot for one would rather stay where he is and be given the opportunity to go for GC himself.


----------



## Louch (6 Jul 2016)

They might be within ten mins of Froome if they were a protected rider in the team with Froome, but it's success over pr for sky for now.


----------



## lutonloony (6 Jul 2016)

Sorry if this has been done before, but are Cavs stage wins as impressive as Hinaults , I know it's kind of apples and oranges, but just courious as to peeps thoughts


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> They might be within ten mins of Froome if they were a protected rider in the team with Froome, but it's success over pr for sky for now.



Signing up the brightest French prospects to work as understudies for Froome would be a PR disaster.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

lutonloony said:


> Sorry if this has been done before, but are Cavs stage wins as impressive as Hinaults , I know it's kind of apples and oranges, but just courious as to peeps thoughts



Sort of being discussed in the 'Cav' topic - but yes, it is apples to oranges; to my mind there's no lesser or greater merit to either, just different.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> ... it's success over pr for sky for now.



Success is PR. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.


----------



## lutonloony (6 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Sort of being discussed in the 'Cav' topic - but yes, it is apples to oranges; to my mind there's no lesser or greater merit to either, just different.


Ok, will have a look at cav thread, cheers


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Jul 2016)

Today I predict Froome will take advantage of Contador's recovery and destroy his chances.


----------



## lutonloony (6 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Today I predict Froome will take advantage of Contador's recovery and destroy his chances.


Hopefully


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

My prediction is that Contador will lose minutes today. I reckon the main antagonists are more likely to be Etixx than Sky or Movistar though - they'll be looking to set up Martin or Alaphilippe for the stage win.


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

OK, my 10 minutes was a bit of an exaggeration. Froome already has plenty of domestiques. As for stage 5, it doesn't look too tough and I don't think many of the GC boys will lose too much time.


----------



## mjr (6 Jul 2016)

lutonloony said:


> Ok, will have a look at cav thread, cheers


https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cav-may-contain-spoilers.198361/ just to help people looking back at this in future years when both topics have drifted down the listings


----------



## seraphina (6 Jul 2016)

Sagan and Contador are both Tinkoff, aren't they? How long before Contandor's GC ambitions are discarded to help get Sagan on the front of as many stages as possible?


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (6 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> Seeing as it's quiet, here are some snaps from the start of Stage 2 at St Lô. We managed to hang around the team bus park and I geeked out on the bikes while my ride chum Jim fought his way to the Dimension Data and Sky barriers to harass the riders. Getting to the départ was just too tight with bikes.



The quality of your photographs is exceptional. You should be a press photographer.

Thanks for taking the trouble to share - I really enjoyed looking at them.

Graham


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Didn't realise until I just read it on the official website that this year is Sylvain Chavanel's 16th consecutive Tour, and he has only DNF twice. Superb achievement by one of my all-time favourite riders. The first time he came to my attention was when he did a monster turn on the front of the peloton to singlehandedly reel in the breakaway on a long, dull transitional stage some time in the early 2000s. Totally typical of the selfless professional he is. I've long felt he's never really been given the opportunity to fulfil his true potential - and that he might have fared much better if he'd been riding in a different era.

Those other long-stayers in full:
Joop Zoetemelk - 16 finishes from 16 starts
Stuart O'Grady - 15 finishes from 17 starts
Jens Voigt - 14 finishes from 17 starts
George Hincapie - 13 finishes from 17 starts
Lucien van Impe & Viatcheslav Ekimov - 15 finishes from 15 starts


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

Who will be KOM after today?


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Who will be KOM after today?



My money is on a breakaway rider mopping up the points before they're caught on the final climb. Teklehaimanot?


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Teklehaimanot?


Yes. He's been pretty quiet so far.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yes. He's been pretty quiet so far.



Hasn't really been much to interest him yet. He's done some good work as a domestique for Cav though. 

The other possibility for Dimension Data today is Cummings...


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Looks like Stuyven is up for defending his jersey - took the point for the first 4th cat climb (after 16km). No proper breakaway group has formed yet though and it's a loooong stage, next categorised climb comes at 142km...


----------



## Pale Rider (6 Jul 2016)

Has Sagan got any chance of winning the race?

I rather like the way he comes over on the telly, so if Froome doesn't win, Sagan is the rider I'd most like to see succeed.


----------



## Shadow (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Didn't realise until I just read it on the official website that this year is Sylvain Chavanel's 16th consecutive Tour...


Wow, that is super impressive. Hansen cannot be far behind but not sure he can equal this.


----------



## Shadow (6 Jul 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Has Sagan got any chance of winning the race?


Simply, no. He cannot climb like the climbers e.g. Foome, Quintana etc.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> Wow, that is super impressive. Hansen cannot be far behind but not sure he can equal this.



Hansen didn't ride his first Tour until 2008, so this is only his seventh visit. However, he has ridden - and finished - every edition of every Grand Tour since the 2011 Vuelta, which is itself a phenomenally impressive achievement. If he finishes the Tour, that will be number 15.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Front of the race | 137.90 km to go | 9 riders including: VAN AVERMAET, Greg (BMC), PAUWELS, Serge (DDD), SICARD, Romain (DEN), GAUTIER, Cyril (ALM), GRIVKO, Andriy (AST), HUZARSKI, Bartosz (BOA), VACHON, Florian (FVC), DE GENDT, Thomas (LTS), MAJKA, Rafal (TNK)


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Front of the race | 137.90 km to go | 9 riders including: VAN AVERMAET, Greg (BMC), PAUWELS, Serge (DDD), SICARD, Romain (DEN), GAUTIER, Cyril (ALM), GRIVKO, Andriy (AST), HUZARSKI, Bartosz (BOA), VACHON, Florian (FVC), DE GENDT, Thomas (LTS), MAJKA, Rafal (TNK)


Some big names in there. I thought about Majka as he's what, 14 minutes down but somehow I think Etixx will be looking to bring that lot back.


----------



## Bollo (6 Jul 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> The quality of your photographs is exceptional. You should be a press photographer.
> 
> Thanks for taking the trouble to share - I really enjoyed looking at them.
> 
> Graham


Thanks Graham, that's really appreciated. I do enjoy photography but can't take a portrait for toffee, whereas sports photography forces you to be spontaneous. But, there's a world of difference between making a career from pictures and doing it for fun.

If you check out my pictures of the riders coming through on the first day, you'll see (I think) Graham Watson in the upper floor window of one of the houses.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Front of the race | 137.90 km to go | 9 riders including: VAN AVERMAET, Greg (BMC), PAUWELS, Serge (DDD), SICARD, Romain (DEN), GAUTIER, Cyril (ALM), GRIVKO, Andriy (AST), HUZARSKI, Bartosz (BOA), VACHON, Florian (FVC), DE GENDT, Thomas (LTS), MAJKA, Rafal (TNK)



GVA, Grivko and De Gendt now a minute clear of the other six, and nine minutes up on the peloton. 105km to go - only 30km until it starts to get interesting...


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> McLay in the top 10 again.


He was probably in awe of the big stars in the first couple of sprints and didn't get that close, but in stage 4 was much closer. He should take inspiration from the fact that he has a win over Bouhanni this year.


----------



## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

On the official Tour commentary they thought that there may have been a crash but I reckon they were changing bikes with different set-ups for the climbs


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> GVA, Grivko and De Gendt now a minute clear of the other six, and nine minutes up on the peloton. 105km to go - only 30km until it starts to get interesting...



Now 15 minutes up - and GVA and Grivko are much less than that behind on GC. Getting interesting.


----------



## Bollo (6 Jul 2016)

Sky being made to work to keep a bead on Majka.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

Grivko's dropped.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I reckon the main antagonists are more likely to be Etixx than Sky or Movistar though



Shows what I know! Movistar are annihilating the peloton.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

Vichot out the back 

Off to read Camus.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

Fuglsang and Nibali out the back!


----------



## iggibizzle (6 Jul 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Has Sagan got any chance of winning the race?
> 
> I rather like the way he comes over on the telly, so if Froome doesn't win, Sagan is the rider I'd most like to see succeed.



No chance. As can be seen just now. Can't climb when compared to the others.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

So Majka attacking over the summit - interested in KoM points?


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2016)

This climb is really hurting.


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> So Majka attacking over the summit - interested in KoM points?



Or just going up the road to help Contador on the final climb? Must say Contador looks like he's coping surprisingly well with the brutal pace.

ETA: of course, still two tough climbs to come, so it will also mean Majka is in a good place to put Plan B into effect if Contador does start to suffer.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2016)

Movistar are trying to break the other teams early.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Or just going up the road to help Contador on the final climb?...ETA: of course, still two tough climbs to come, so it will also mean Majka is in a good place to put Plan B into effect if Contador does start to suffer.



Thought about that, but it didn't seem necessary to attack his own group in that case, unless he wanted to gee them up a bit or get a bit of space - or get the points.

When I started watching and found he was in the chase group my immediate reaction was 'he's up the road for Contador'; and of course we saw those tactics used to very good effect by Astana in the Giro.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2016)

So GVA can he do it?


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

Famous last words, but I can't see why he wouldn't unless he collapses totally - they'd have to take a minute a kilometre from him and they don't seem interested in doing it.


----------



## Bollo (6 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Vichot out the back
> 
> Off to read Camus.


There go his chances of being the first man


----------



## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Sky aren't bothered about chasing him and Movistar haven't got any chasers left, so there's no way they'll catch him now. No point BMC chasing either. 

I thought Etixx would show more interest in this but they don't really have anyone left either.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Sky aren't bothered about chasing him and Movistar haven't got any chasers left, so there's no way they'll catch him now. No point BMC chasing either.



Not sure why Movistar burnt all their guys up in what seemed to be a futile, late chase. They must have felt they could make it, but... Maybe they thought GVA would tire.

Outstanding ride by GVA though - spot on tactically and in sheer strength and riding.


----------



## jarlrmai (6 Jul 2016)

Movistar were accused of not attacking Sky until too late last year.


----------



## Bonus (6 Jul 2016)

Is Bertie down and out? Not looking good for him.


----------



## HF2300 (6 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Not sure why Movistar burnt all their guys up in what seemed to be a futile, late chase.



Unless of course they weren't trying for the stage, but to find the weaknesses in the other GC contenders?


----------



## Crackle (6 Jul 2016)

I nearly picked GVA today, congrats to Brommers who did but I didn't think that profile would suit him, shows how he's really starting to improve, really good ride.

Gawd knows what Movistar were doing.


----------



## rich p (6 Jul 2016)

Nibali has been found out. Either tired from the Giro or just showing his real level when the big boys are competing too.


----------



## Beebo (6 Jul 2016)

Have you seen the clip of Rob Hatch and Rob Hayles desk collapsing during the final stages of stage 4.
Very professional as they keep commentating.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36719488


----------



## BSRU (7 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Nibali has been found out. Either tired from the Giro or just showing his real level when the big boys are competing too.


Maybe he just cannot be arsed, doesn't fancy being someone else domestique especially when leaving the team in a few months.


----------



## philk56 (7 Jul 2016)

BSRU said:


> Maybe he just cannot be arsed, doesn't fancy being someone else domestique especially when leaving the team in a few months.


I think it was David Millar who said he might be keeping his powder dry for the Olympics.


----------



## Hont (7 Jul 2016)

BSRU said:


> Maybe he just cannot be arsed, doesn't fancy being someone else domestique especially when leaving the team in a few months.


But then he would have been better served by remaining high on GC. The one thing he has assured by dropping off the pace is that he will be Aru's domestique now instead of co-leader. 

But I think the smart money is on him he pulling out when he's done his training block.


----------



## coffeejo (7 Jul 2016)

Excellent interview with Brian Holm.  He should be on every day.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Ok, I probably ask this every year, but I am only now able to watch this year's Tour 'properly', so where can I get a live lead.... WITHOUT the adverts..... Just the entire thing as it is filmed??

I thought I had found one online.... Except that I then discovered it has the bloody adverts too..... I can't think of anything more utterly moronic!

Anyway, thanks.


----------



## Dave 123 (7 Jul 2016)

I don't normally get to watch live, but I've finished early today.
So has anyone bought the commemorative seafarer coins or the Viking cruise?
A whole new world.....


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Dave 123 said:


> I don't normally get to watch live, but I've finished early today.
> So has anyone bought the commemorative seafarer coins or the Viking cruise?
> A whole new world.....



Strangely enough.... *NO!!*


----------



## Dave 123 (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Strangely enough.... *NO!!*




A 5 quid Lizzie coin now.....


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

I don't imagine I am actually missing much, but I want to get it set up for the better stages coming up, so if anyone knows of a live feed without the adverts, then please can you let us know?

Thanks.


----------



## coffeejo (7 Jul 2016)

Are the adverts always this awful? This is the only programme I watch that's not on the BBC / Netflix and it's an annual reminder as to why that is.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Are the adverts always this awful? This is the only programme I watch that's not on the BBC / Netflix and it's an annual reminder as to why that is.



Probably, I try and forget them every year.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Oh yes, and the TV remote control has gone all funny again and isn't working (and this is a new one after the same happened to the old one), so the TV is stuck on itv4..... I can't even switch it off!!


----------



## Dave 123 (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I don't imagine I am actually missing much, but I want to get it set up for the better stages coming up, so if anyone knows of a live feed without the adverts, then please can you let us know?
> 
> Thanks.




Try
steephill.tv

You might get a live feed on there. My work blocks it. You'll get highlights from everywhere, ladies and mens.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Only pictures and 'updates', but thanks!


----------



## Dave 123 (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Only pictures and 'updates', but thanks!



I was just watching Eurosport via steephill, they appear to be 0.7km behind ITV


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

This is what I found, thinking it was what I was looking for...... Until the adverts...... But still, it is a useful site to have anyway:

http://www.tourdefrancelive.org


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Anyone still got PPI?


----------



## rualexander (7 Jul 2016)

Is the horizontal top tube making a comeback? 
The two guys in the breakaway both seem to be riding bikes with what looks like horizontal top tubes.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Acht, I have things to do here anyway, so I will try and fanny about with websites and apps later.

Thanks anyway.


----------



## mjr (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Ok, I probably ask this every year, but I am only now able to watch this year's Tour 'properly', so where can I get a live lead.... WITHOUT the adverts..... Just the entire thing as it is filmed??


If you're in Europe (including the UK  ), the easiest way is probably to get a satellite antenna and decoder and point it at 5°W for France 2 and 3 HD or 13°E for RAI (various channels, mostly Sport 1 or 2) - both have adverts mainly when changing channels and sometimes those ad breaks are out-of-sync with itv4 on Freeview so you need not miss much. Much easier than faffing about with internet streams from dodgy websites.


----------



## jarlrmai (7 Jul 2016)

..that chess game.


----------



## BrumJim (7 Jul 2016)

CAVENDISH!!!


----------



## coffeejo (7 Jul 2016)

Cav!!


----------



## Buddfox (7 Jul 2016)

Thought Cav went too soon but just held on. How about Dan McClay though? Another 50m and he'd have won!


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2016)

He's in the form of his life is Cavendish.

And Dan Mclay is there AGAIN!


----------



## Levo-Lon (7 Jul 2016)

Brilliant finish..


----------



## brommers (7 Jul 2016)

Fantastic you Brits


----------



## SWSteve (7 Jul 2016)

Got home 5 minutes late. Now get to watch Ashley House remind me of the race I missed


----------



## SWSteve (7 Jul 2016)

This Dan McKay fella is pretty quick, youve got to think he'll get a stage at some point


----------



## HF2300 (7 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> This Dan McKay fella is pretty quick, youve got to think he'll get a stage at some point



Dan McLay's even faster...

I would say Cav!!! McLay!!! but people have already said it.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Apparently it looks like it could be a 

'Bardet day'

Tomorrow.

I'll wait and see tomorrow if it is is a

'Bardet day today'.


----------



## roadrash (7 Jul 2016)

and then you can shout ..... its a 'Bardet day today... yay...


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

roadrash said:


> and then you can shout ..... its a 'Bardet day today... yay...



... OK lets Party!!


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2016)

Christ, the lunatics have taken over the asylum


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Anyone still got PPI?


Can you get it from toilet seats?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (7 Jul 2016)

Anyhow, am I alone in finding myself thinking ''Cav's gone too long!'' only to see him win.


----------



## coffeejo (7 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Anyhow, am I alone in finding myself thinking ''Cav's gone too long!'' only to see him win.


I am resolutely taking the cynic's approach to his career this year. Pleasantly surprised* thus far and no disappointments.

*cynical understatement


----------



## Crackle (7 Jul 2016)

I was thinking about a funeral plan........

Love to see mcClay/Kay/Say/Day win one if he survives the mtns.


----------



## philk56 (7 Jul 2016)

Great to see Cav back to winning ways. Would love to see him win again on the Champs but will he keep going with the Olympics in mind?


----------



## rich p (7 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I was thinking about a funeral plan.


...I know how you feel...


----------



## HF2300 (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> ... OK lets Party!!



OK let's Bardet? (Take That and Bardet?)



deptfordmarmoset said:


> Anyhow, am I alone in finding myself thinking ''Cav's gone too long!'' only to see him win.



I thought he'd gone too long as well, and Kittel was definitely coming back at him (in fact he said afterwards he'd maxed out and ,maybe should have taken a bigger gear), as was McLay; but I think in the end he just wanted it more.


----------



## Dayvo (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Apparently it looks like it could be a
> 
> 'Bardet day'
> 
> ...



And if it's your birthday tomorrow: Happy Bardet to you etc.


----------



## Bollo (7 Jul 2016)

Harse! Being a trophy husband I get out from work by 3:00pm so was home to see the last 50km. Ummed and arred and then decided to nip out for a quick ride and watch the highlights on the ITV ketchup show instead. I get back with fecking 5 Live trumpeting Cav's win as first item on the sport. No spoiler alert. Nowt. Feckers.


----------



## coffeejo (7 Jul 2016)

I missed the spectator falling into the ditch again.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Love to see mcClay/Kay/Say/Day win one if he survives the mtns.



Will it be a Bardet or McClay day??


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (7 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I missed the spectator falling into the ditch again.



Just to rub it in, I think there were two people, a guy not long after the woman they mentioned.

.... At different bits I mean, not together!


----------



## Shadow (7 Jul 2016)

Tomorrow will be a Bar Day for me!!!


----------



## SWSteve (7 Jul 2016)

If this carries on there will be some Argy Bardet


----------



## Dec66 (7 Jul 2016)

The lad who sits next to me at work is a mate of Dan McLay.

We put an iPad Mini between us and put the Eurosport coverage on, and today we were terribly excited at the end, obviously. 

To be finishing where McLay has been this week is all the more remarkable when you consider that he hasn't got the support from his team that the big boys have from theirs.

Chapeau, indeed.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2016)

Dec66 said:


> The lad who sits next to me at work is a mate of Dan McLay.
> 
> We put an iPad Mini between us and put the Eurosport coverage on, and today we were terribly excited at the end, obviously.
> 
> ...


Just imagine how much excitement there would be if you also had a bloke called Mick Cravendale!


----------



## Dec66 (7 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just imagine how much excitement there would be if you also had a bloke called Mick Cravendale!


I'd feel compelled to milk it...

(Coat)


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Jul 2016)

Dec66 said:


> I'd feel compelled to milk it...
> 
> (Coat)


So many options. I am going to rename myself....


----------



## brommers (7 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Great to see Cav back to winning ways


Huh? He already had won 2 sprints - it's not like he hasn't won a stage for 5 years.
Confused of Tunbridge Wells.


----------



## Asa Post (7 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Ok, I probably ask this every year, but I am only now able to watch this year's Tour 'properly', so where can I get a live lead.... WITHOUT the adverts..... Just the entire thing as it is filmed??
> 
> I thought I had found one online.... Except that I then discovered it has the bloody adverts too..... I can't think of anything more utterly moronic!
> 
> Anyway, thanks.


If you're willing to spend £7 (it's asking a lot of a Scot, I know) you can get a month's subscription to EurosportPlayer.
Not only do you get Eurosport's own coverage, with adverts and excellent commentary () by Carlton Kirby and Sean Kelly but you can also choose to watch on UCI's own channel - which has the same pictures, but NO commentary and NO advertising that I've seen.


----------



## philk56 (7 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Huh? He already had won 2 sprints - it's not like he hasn't won a stage for 5 years.
> Confused of Tunbridge Wells.


I meant winning several stages close together


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

I'm surprised that Tom Dumoulin hasn't performed better. Given that he dropped out of the Giro early, I'd assumed that he would be in the GC hunt. He's either not fit enough or is going stage hunting. Whichever, is slightly mystifying.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

I hadn't quite taken in his position, just that he wasn't appearing in the lead groups; but at 19 minutes down on GC, there's something more going on than just keeping his powder dry. Giant have said he's using the tour as a build up to the Olympics, and he's aiming at TT gold, so perhaps they're using it to build his endurance without exhausting him


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Giant have said he's using the tour as a build up to the Olympics


I hadn't read that but if it's true, I'm not sure what Giant get out of it?
He'll be doing the Rio ITT in the Dutch team kit.


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2016)

Dec66 said:


> I'd feel compelled to milk it...
> 
> (Coat)





Marmion said:


> Just imagine how much excitement there would be if you also had a bloke called Mick Cravendale!




He's the creme de la creme of the sprinters


----------



## fimm (8 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just imagine how much excitement there would be if you also had a bloke called Mick Cravendale!





Dec66 said:


> I'd feel compelled to milk it...
> 
> (Coat)





ItsSteveLovell said:


> He's the creme de la creme of the sprinters



Someone's going to have to explain this one to me...


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2016)

fimm said:


> Someone's going to have to explain this one to me...




We're all having a Bardet of it, sorry


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I hadn't read that but if it's true, I'm not sure what Giant get out of it?
> He'll be doing the Rio ITT in the Dutch team kit.



There's always been a bit of give and take between team, national and personal ambitions (in many sports, not just cycling). I suppose Giant might also feel that having a leading Olympian, perhaps Olympic medallist, in their line up brings added kudos and useful marketing opportunities.


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> There's always been a bit of give and take between team, national and personal ambitions (in many sports, not just cycling). I suppose Giant might also feel that having a leading Olympian, perhaps Olympic medallist, in their line up brings added kudos and useful marketing opportunities.




He also rides a giant bike at the olympics


----------



## Archie (8 Jul 2016)

> 29 riders have gathered to form the front group after 50km: Vassil Kiryienka (Sky), Gorka Izagirre (Movistar), Vincenzo Nibali and Alexey Lutsenko (Astana), Jan Bakelants and Alexis Vuillermoz (AG2R-La Mondiale), Paul Martens (LottoNL-Jumbo), Fabian Cancellara and Jasper Stuyven (Trek-Segafredo), Oliver Naesen (IAMCycling), Matti Breschel, Alex Howes and Sebastian Langeveld (Cannondale-Drapac), Greg Van Avermaet (BMC), Stephen Cummings (Dimension Data), Simon Geschke (Giant-Alpecin), Paul Voss (Bora-Argon 18), Kristijan Durasek (Lampre-Merida), Angel Vicioso (Katusha), Jurgen Roelandts (Lotto-Soudal), Sylvain Chavanel and Antoine Duchesne (Direct Energie), Tony Martin (Etixx-Quick Step), Dani Navarro, Borut Bozic and Luis Angel Maté (Cofidis), Daryl Impey (Orica-BikeExchange) and Pierre-Luc Périchon (Fortuneo-Vital Concept).


I've missed out on the punditry for this tour, but I reckon today's stage has Nibali's fingerprints all over it, and probably explains his *moohassive* time gap to Le Lioran.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Jul 2016)

fimm said:


> Someone's going to have to explain this one to me...


I thought it started with McLay, which in French sounds like lait (milk). I'm not entirely sure this explanation will hold good....


----------



## coffeejo (8 Jul 2016)

They've just reeled off the wins and successes of the 29 riders in the breakaway.


----------



## Basil.B (8 Jul 2016)

Forza Nibali!


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

GVA in this move as well. It's got to be brought back.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Should have guessed this looked like one for Cummings to try for...


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

GVA's dropped


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

The Dimension Data sight says Froome's average speed over the last 5k is 42km/h and GVA's 34.5

https://tourdefrance.livetracking.d...edium=Homepage&utm_campaign=TDF2016#/datazone


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

36 secs to Steve C


----------



## Buddfox (8 Jul 2016)

Cummings gap has moved out to 36 seconds apparently, fingers crossed for him.


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

current speed gva 20km/h and Froome 28


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

Pinot struggling even on this climb!


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

Go Steve


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

Stalemate in the peloton.


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

Great win again.
He should be in the Rio road team though


----------



## Toshiba Boy (8 Jul 2016)

Chapeau Steve!


----------



## Basil.B (8 Jul 2016)

What a ride, well done Cummmings!


----------



## Bollo (8 Jul 2016)

Flame rouge is bolloxed!


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Wow. 1km arch collapses on the peloton!


----------



## Bollo (8 Jul 2016)

They'll have to neutralise that finish surely?!


----------



## Toshiba Boy (8 Jul 2016)

Who pricked the Flame Rouge?


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Great rides today, particularly Cummings, Impey and GVA


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

Time taken from 3k and there's a bike on the arch!


----------



## mjr (8 Jul 2016)

Is the Tour de France using the same arch makers as the Ronde van Vlaanderen?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkV_-vVaT7Q


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Time taken from 3k and there's a bike on the arch!


Adam Yates, apparently. He must have ridden into it and gone over the top.


----------



## Bollo (8 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Time taken from 3k and there's a bike on the arch!


Adam Yates' I think


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> They'll have to neutralise that finish surely?!



Announced they'll apply the 3km rule.


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Adam Yates, apparently. He must have ridden into it and gone over the top.


Is he still in the air?


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

About to land on the finish truck


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Is he still in the air?


I think he'll be feeling pretty deflated right now.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

Apparently Nibali's been given the combativity award.


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Apparently Nibali's been given the combativity award.


It should go to the 1K banner


----------



## Archie (8 Jul 2016)

Toshiba Boy said:


> Who pricked the Flame Rouge?


Greg van avaermat, on the way past, obvs.


----------



## Crackle (8 Jul 2016)

Pinot reportedly 7 minutes down, that's his tour over.


----------



## brommers (8 Jul 2016)

Yates was obviously ahead of the peloton. So he must be the cause of the mess or would have been given the same time. Be interesting to hear what actually happened.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (8 Jul 2016)

That's the first stage I've stayed up late for (I'm in Japan), and I'm glad I did! (It wasn't deliberate, it's just too sticky and hot to sleep comfortably tonight). Another awesome and utterly unstoppable ride by Cummings, who had clearly been saving himself for this one.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (8 Jul 2016)

One in the eye for the Olympic selectors


----------



## philk56 (8 Jul 2016)

Brilliant ride by Cummings. Only had a brief glimpse of Adam Yates's face - looked quite cut up, hope he's ok.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Brilliant ride by Cummings. Only had a brief glimpse of Adam Yates's face - looked quite cut up, hope he's ok.








Talk about taking it on the chin! Cleaned up and stitches in place.


----------



## HF2300 (8 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yates was obviously ahead of the peloton. So he must be the cause of the mess or would have been given the same time.



???



Big Dave laaa said:


> One in the eye for the Olympic selectors



I'm not sure I get this 'Cummings is the obvious choice, the selectors are fools' thing. He's done some brilliant stuff, sure, but every time he's done it it's been an individualist ride; which if you're looking for support for another rider isn't necessarily what you need. I'm not sure who the best team is, but I can understand why the selectors might have looked past his top performances.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ???
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I get this 'Cummings is the obvious choice, the selectors are fools' thing. He's done some brilliant stuff, sure, but every time he's done it it's been an individualist ride; which if you're looking for support for another rider isn't necessarily what you need. I'm not sure who the best team is, but I can understand why the selectors might have looked past his top performances.



Not fools at all but maybe ever so slightly Team Sky biased. Sky are an amazing team but not all of the talent is British. Cummings has done more than enough this season to warrant a place.


----------



## pawl (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ???
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I get this 'Cummings is the obvious choice, the selectors are fools' thing. He's done some brilliant stuff, sure, but every time he's done it it's been an individualist ride; which if you're looking for support for another rider isn't necessarily what you need. I'm not sure who the best team is, but I can understand why the selectors might have looked past his top performances.




Don't be surprised.Form appears to count for nothing. Look at some of the selections re the woman's road and track team.
While Emma Pooley has been a great time trialist i am not sure a diet for the past two years of triathlon is the best preparation.I feel the selectors have to much involvement with team sky.
Form means nothing.


----------



## rich p (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ???
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I get this 'Cummings is the obvious choice, the selectors are fools' thing. He's done some brilliant stuff, sure, but every time he's done it it's been an individualist ride; which if you're looking for support for another rider isn't necessarily what you need. I'm not sure who the best team is, but I can understand why the selectors might have looked past his top performances.


How many do we have in the team? Froome is only in with a chance on a long uphill finish, which I suspect it aint in Rio? I confess to knee-jerkism!
If we have enough others to support Froomedawg, I'd have thought it was worth a punt on a wild card like Cummings.


----------



## Beebo (8 Jul 2016)

As they said on Eurosport, the 1km to go banner could have killed someone if it came down during a sprinters stage.
I reckon some pulled the plug out of the air pump.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (8 Jul 2016)

good ride, but a 35 yr old with a point to prove re BOC and drops everyone on a mtn stage, a little uncomfortable I admit.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> good ride, but a 35 yr old with a point to prove re BOC and drops everyone on a mtn stage, a little uncomfortable I admit.


----------



## Bollo (8 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


>


----------



## SWSteve (8 Jul 2016)

COME ON CUMMO


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Talk about taking it on the chin! Cleaned up and stitches in place.


If ever there was a case of "I've had worse injuries fae shaving..."


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (8 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> If ever there was a case of "I've had worse injuries fae shaving..."


It'll look worse in the morning, once the bruising starts to show. So, anyway, those experimental airbags for cyclists just don't work!


----------



## brommers (8 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ???


Yates is now second overall and will wear the white jersey.


----------



## brommers (8 Jul 2016)

What's the odds on Stevo going in a breakaway again tomorrow and go for the polka dots.


----------



## rich p (9 Jul 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> good ride, but a 35 yr old with a point to prove re BOC and drops everyone on a mtn stage, a little uncomfortable I admit.


Yeah, Cummings is probs doped up to the eyeballs!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> good ride, but a 35 yr old with a point to prove re BOC and drops everyone on a mtn stage, a little uncomfortable I admit.



I'm sorry but that's a little bit ridiculous. 

1. It's one thing to question a result like Horner's a couple of years back (there are very few cyclists in their 40s realistically likely to achieve what he did in winning the entire Vuelta). But a rider in his mid-30s? Do you question Greipel every time he wins a sprint? He's 34. Purito Rodriguez is 37 and while he's not what he was, he still wins races and gets on podiums... there are many others. 

2. This was a relatively short stage with just one 5-6% average slope for 10km which followed by a descent and a draggy finish which, if you know Cummings' characteristics, is pretty much ideal for a determined and powerful pursuiter like him. It wasn't a series of really steep HC Pyrrenean climbs (as we'll get tomorrow) or a 25km Alpine monster, you would not have seen him even trying this.

3. He's a well-known tough breakaway rider with a consistent record of winning stages like this, who has conserved his energy to win his single targeted stage That's hardly suspicious. And he has been able to make more of them of late, because he's essentially been released from domestique duties in order to go for stages, as Dimension Data has confirmed in interviews. 

4. The chase by Nibali and co. never really got very organised and none of the three chasers really put in a consistent effort to catch Cummings. 

5. Oh yeah, and of course he wants to stick it to British Cycling, but who doesn't right now? That's just a bonus.


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I'm not sure I get this 'Cummings is the obvious choice, the selectors are fools' thing. He's done some brilliant stuff, sure, but every time he's done it it's been an individualist ride; which if you're looking for support for another rider isn't necessarily what you need. I'm not sure who the best team is, but I can understand why the selectors might have looked past his top performances.



Totally agree. What's more, all his big wins have been in stage races where he isn't a threat to the overall standings. He's never won any big one-day races and I can't see him being allowed to. 

Still, another fantastic achievement and it's brilliant the way he seems to be able to pick his stage and just win it.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Totally agree. What's more, all his big wins have been in stage races where he isn't a threat to the overall standings. He's never won any big one-day races and I can't see him being allowed to.
> 
> Still, another fantastic achievement and it's brilliant the way he seems to be able to pick his stage and just win it.



Perhaps the one thing he could do is the TT. What's the Rio TT course like? I'm struggling to see who they are going to pick to do the TT and just assume they will use Froome. I'm right in thinking it has to be a rider from the road squad?


----------



## Louch (9 Jul 2016)

Yeah has to be one of your road team. Re the course, I think Sagan isn't doing it as he says it's too hilly , so Froome is probably the best bet to get behind. Cummings is a good breakaway racer, but see the logic in taking better domestiques to purely support Froome


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I'm sorry but that's a little bit ridiculous.
> 
> 1. It's one thing to question a result like Horner's a couple of years back (there are very few cyclists in their 40s realistically likely to achieve what he did in winning the entire Vuelta). But a rider in his mid-30s? Do you question Greipel every time he wins a sprint? He's 34. Purito Rodriguez is 37 and while he's not what he was, he still wins races and gets on podiums... there are many others.
> 
> ...



6. The tour has been easy up to now and, as far as I could see, Cummings just hid away & therefore had plenty of energy (he is still over 40 minutes down on the GC). Compare that to, say Nibali, who is clearly fatigued, not just from the Giro, but also on his dismal effort in the mid mountain stage earlier in the week.


----------



## beastie (9 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yates was obviously ahead of the peloton. So he must be the cause of the mess or would have been given the same time. Be interesting to hear what actually happened.


Eh.......you might like to see this. 


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7bR0J-Ztuw


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (9 Jul 2016)

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cyclocosm/status/751651269891153920/video/1


----------



## coffeejo (9 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yates was obviously ahead of the peloton. So he must be the cause of the mess or would have been given the same time. Be interesting to hear what actually happened.


As per the above videos, I've read on several sites this morning that a spectator accidentally brought it down. The finishing times took a while to calculate as the riders aren't tracked second by second.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/Cyclocosm/status/751651269891153920/video/1


Wow, that deflated quickly. No chance of stopping.


----------



## Mo1959 (9 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Compare that to, say Nibali, who is clearly fatigued, not just from the Giro, but also on his dismal effort in the mid mountain stage earlier in the week.


Anyone else think Nibali looked slightly porky round the midriff? 

Looking forward to watching this afternoon.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

Mo1959 said:


> Anyone else think Nibali looked slightly porky round the midriff?
> 
> Looking forward to watching this afternoon.



he always looks like that


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Mo1959 said:


> Anyone else think Nibali looked slightly porky round the midriff?


Not as beefy as Bertie.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

The video has been removed. Why? How far ahead of the peloton was Yates at the time?

Oh, and by the way, Cummings is not even in the 25 oldest riders.


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2016)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/adam-yates-flamme-rouge-inflatable-banner-crash-video/


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

Crikey! If he had been there 1 second earlier he would have missed it.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (9 Jul 2016)

It was inflatable markers yesterday but the riders might have to deal with something ever stranger today: roving llamas.

This was a picture taken at the top of the Col du Tourmalet earlier:







Apparently, a local farmer owns them and lets them roam in the summer. They've taken to sitting on the road in the mornings...

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/7/8/12131638/tour-de-france-llamas


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Thomas crashes in the neutral zone: Chute Geraint Thomas! A TdF would not be complete without such an exclamation.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

I'm looking forward to this stage - probably more so than even Cav, Kittel, Greipel and co.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> Not fools at all but maybe ever so slightly Team Sky biased. Sky are an amazing team but not all of the talent is British. Cummings has done more than enough this season to warrant a place.



I think it's easy to see bias. Sometimes it's really there, sometimes not. All I'm saying is where a team is being chosen for a particular aim, there are other considerations than individual stage winning form.



rich p said:


> How many do we have in the team? Froome is only in with a chance on a long uphill finish, which I suspect it aint in Rio? I confess to knee-jerkism! If we have enough others to support Froomedawg, I'd have thought it was worth a punt on a wild card like Cummings.



5 riders for the Olympic road race. Course loops round the road TT course, back along the coast, then 4 loops over the 'mountain' section (around 8.5km at 6%, so not that mountainous) before a fairly flat last 15 km or so to Copacabana, and apparently there are some cobbles as well, so it sounds like a classics rider's course.

I think with a limit of 5 riders they might feel having a wild card was a luxury they can't afford, so if they took Cummings he'd have to domestique for Froome. Current picks are Froome, Thomas, Stannard, Kennaugh, Yates (A).



brommers said:


> Yates is now second overall and will wear the white jersey.



You seemed to be suggesting earlier that the collapse of the flamme rouge was Yates' fault, which was why I queried it. Apparently once they'd got everything sorted out they credited him with 7 seconds.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

TV broadcast wonderfully timed so we miss most, if not all, of the Tourmalet. Seems a bit odd, but I wonder if there will be a GC shake up today anyway or whether they'll save it for tomorrow.

Pinot and Majka 20 seconds ahead of Jeannesson and Tony Martin with 10km to go to the top.


----------



## rich p (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> TV broadcast wonderfully timed so we miss most, if not all, of the Tourmalet. Seems a bit odd, but I wonder if there will be a GC shake up today anyway or whether they'll save it for tomorrow.
> 
> Pinot and Majka 20 seconds ahead of Jeannesson and Tony Martin with 10km to go to the top.


Eurosport are just going live


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Totally agree. What's more, all his big wins have been in stage races where he isn't a threat to the overall standings. He's never won any big one-day races and I can't see him being allowed to.



Yes particularly given his M.O. is known. I'm not sure whether he targets stages and goes for it regardless, or whether there's an element of how he feels on the day making the final decision.



smutchin said:


> Still, another fantastic achievement and it's brilliant the way he seems to be able to pick his stage and just win it.



Absolutely. Right selection or not, it takes nothing away from what he's done and his recent form. It's as if he's suddenly realised 'actually, I can keep with these guys' and it's given him a new confidence to try things.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Eurosport are just going live



Yes, I've got it on a dodgy internet feed!


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Martin, Majka and Pinot together, then Sicard, then the peloton, then a LOT of stragglers!


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Can't see Pinot lasting if yesterday is anything to go by.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You seemed to be suggesting earlier that the collapse of the flamme rouge was Yates' fault, which was why I queried it. Apparently once they'd got everything sorted out they credited him with 7 seconds.


I wasn't suggesting that at all - was just questioning why they hadn't given him a time, when he was clearly clear of the peleton and by the flame rouge was definitely more than 7 seconds clear.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Ah, OK.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Cav, Eisel and Morkov haven't crested the Tourmalet yet. Going to be a long day...


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> ...(cycling stuff)...



Anyway, thought you were on holiday?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Yates is virtual leader, go on son.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

I am currently counting down the minutes until my wife goes off to work so I can switch off the women's tennis on the TV and put on ITV4 - I cannae take much more of having to listen to Carlton Kirby blabbering utter pish on Eurosport on my laptop.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Saint-Lary looks lovely.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Pinot dropped.


----------



## rich p (9 Jul 2016)

I suppose Pinot thought it was worth a punt but this is a pretty embarrassing show from him.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Pinot dropped.


Not as bad as a Pint dropped


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Pinot must be re-aligning for the KoM. I don't think he'll ever be able to handle the expectation of GT contender.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

There was an overnight interview with him that talked about analysing what had gone wrong and resetting goals - the catch being they didn't seem to know what had gone wrong.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> There was an overnight interview with him that talked about analysing what had gone wrong and resetting goals - the catch being they didn't seem to know what had gone wrong.


Did anyone suggest it might be something to do with him being French?


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Oooh, Yates, hanging very close to the back.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Could Yates get yellow here?


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Ned Boulting said:


> Frank Schleck - haven't seen much of him ... for years, really.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Could Yates get yellow here?



He's in yellow on the road, but to actually get it he'd have to stay well placed over the Peyresourde and down to the finish.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

I forgot there was another climb!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Yay! ITV4 time!


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Judging by that denial of the KoM to Majka I suspect we're going to see Froome into yellow over the Peyresourde


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Maybe glue the tyres properly on next time...


----------



## smutchin (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Anyway, thought you were on holiday?



Can't resist checking in for occasional Tour updates. Just have to be sneaky and do it when my wife isn't looking.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Can't resist checking in for occasional Tour updates. Just have to be sneaky and do it when my wife isn't looking.



5.5km from the top of the Peyresourde. All breakaways roped in on the previous climbs. Group of 25 or so including Froome, Quintana, Contador, Aru, Yates, Majka, Barguil. Sky with 4 riders on the front looking strong. Majka in KoM but denied the points by Froome on the previous climb. Pouwels just dropped off so Froome has 3 in support.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Starting to get a bit lively


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

It went uphill and now the skinny lads are winning.

Froome goes Q stays with.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

This is good


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

early weakness tests passed by all the big names.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Yates is going to have to watch that group doesn't split.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Cannot believe Yates is hanging on.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Henao looks so strong.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Froome attacking downhill......


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Froome doing a Bardet!


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

This would put Froome in yellow if it stays like this


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Tekkers from Froome here.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

This is not making me feel comfortable!


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

That chain flopping around crazy.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2016)

Froome pretending to be Matej Mohoric on the decent


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Someone in that group needs to take responsibility, or they're just handing it to Froome


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Nicolas Portal did say earlier they would attack over the top of the last climb...


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

So most aggressive rider today?


----------



## Guyincognito76 (9 Jul 2016)

Well, I won't be trying that tomorrow. Terrifying!


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

50 miles an hour downhill sat on your top tube pedalling at 90+ RPM.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

This is absolutely mad.


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2016)

Scary(!)0


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

And the banner stays up.....


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Aaaand David Brailsford can breathe out.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Wot.......an astonishing.........attack.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Froomedawg!


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Heading over the clinic to see what drugs made that possible.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Heading over the clinic to see what drugs made that possible.



Strong hallucinogens


----------



## philk56 (9 Jul 2016)

Could hardly watch that! Hope Cav makes it in time!


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

Wow! what a stage, what a win, chapeau Froome


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Just brilliant, outstanding, amazing.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Spoiler in the title?


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> So most aggressive rider today?



Pinot, apparently


----------



## Jimidh (9 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Spoiler in the title?


What goes up must come down


----------



## Dec66 (9 Jul 2016)

Well, it's fair to say I didn't expect that.

Might give that a little try myself on the descent into Westerham tomorrow and Strava it.**



** erm, no. No I won't.


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Not planned! Bloody hell. even more astonishing.


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2016)




----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Got to say I'm with Boardman on that - impressive by Froome, and very brave, but just really annoying from the rest of the group; handed it to him on a plate.

Feel sorry for Adam Yates - I wonder if he'll kick himself being that close to yellow and not seizing his chance, or whether he just didn't have the energy. Be interesting to hear an interview.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Is Yates second overall? Also if Cav finishes in time GB will have three of the jersey's.


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2016)

Merge with TDF thread


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Yes that is the scenario.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Big gears on the bike, not planned


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Well, it's fair to say I didn't expect that.
> 
> Might give that a little try myself on the descent into Westerham tomorrow and Strava it.**
> 
> ...



I tried it once, many, many years ago, nowhere near that fast - hit a stone and piled into a very stony grass bank very hard, very quickly. Slaughtered the bike and didn't do myself a lot of good. I have never been that brave since.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

And five out of eight stage wins for GB so far. Britian the home of cycling.


----------



## suzeworld (9 Jul 2016)

That was scarey to watch, never mind cycle ... phew .. but the guys behind should have worked harder ... I am rooting for Quintana!


----------



## gavroche (9 Jul 2016)

Congratulations to Froome for always trying something new. It certainly works and confuses the other riders. Problem is, you can only do it once before others cotton on. 
Could someone tell me why they need to warm down at the end of a stage? Theses guys have been pedalling for 4 hours + , I would have thought that a massage would be more efficient to relax the leg muscles.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Not planned! Bloody hell. even more astonishing.


I'm sure it was planned. Attack the second to last climb for the mountain points, repeat on the last, or so the opposition think and bang he gaps them. Brilliant tactic.


----------



## cm2mackem (9 Jul 2016)

Did anyone else see frome elbow the prat in running along in the yellow just before the hit the top ,


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm sure it was planned. Attack the second to last climb for the mountain points, repeat on the last, or so the opposition think and bang he gaps them. Brilliant tactic.


Brailsford just said as much.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Brailsford just said as much.



I'm wasted in my job


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

I still want to punch Brailsford. Hard.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

cm2mackem said:


> Did anyone else see frome elbow the prat in running along in the yellow just before the hit the top ,



No but I want to now.


----------



## cm2mackem (9 Jul 2016)

Good shot


----------



## EnPassant (9 Jul 2016)

No expert at any of this, but to me it appears one of Froome or Brailsford is a fibber. I think it's Froome.
That was planned.


----------



## cm2mackem (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> No but I want to now.


At 16.5 to go some idiot running alongside him in a yellow wig, left elbow right in the face


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

EnPassant said:


> No expert at any of this, but to me it appears one of Froome or Brailsford is a fibber. I think it's Froome.
> That was planned.



I suspect in practice it's a bit of both. They probably talked about it as a possibility and experimented with it, but it still takes all the cards to fall right and Froome to take the initiative, say 'feels right, I'll go for it'


----------



## Crackle (9 Jul 2016)

Punch is a few tweets down

https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV

Good shot.


----------



## EnPassant (9 Jul 2016)

Thanks HF that seems intuitively sensible. Sort of "planned to be used if the opportunity arises".


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Punch is a few tweets down
> 
> https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV
> 
> Good shot.



Getting a Froome elbow in the face is being stabbed with a knitting needle.


----------



## HF2300 (9 Jul 2016)

Cav makes the autobus! Hopefully he'll be OK.


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Cav on the backseat of the autobus.


----------



## Roadrider48 (9 Jul 2016)

Froome owns the TDF!!


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Punch is a few tweets down
> 
> https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV
> 
> Good shot.



One must never condone violence.


----------



## Smokin Joe (9 Jul 2016)

I wouldn't want to hit a pothole riding like that


----------



## Tin Pot (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Getting a Froome elbow in the face is being stabbed with a knitting needle.



Powered by the Legendary Arms of Froome it's probably more like a jab from a newborn.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Cav makes the autobus! Hopefully he'll be OK.



I was just as excited seeing him coming in as I was Froome


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

Froome is the new Badger


----------



## Aravis (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Cav on the backseat of the autobus.


That was the late bus. There was an earlier one of similar size at 34".

Of the points contenders, Kittel was in Cavendish's bus but Sagan was in the early one. I don't know if the late group beat the cut-off time, but if not won't there be a points deduction, following previous form?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Aravis said:


> That was the late bus. There was an earlier one of similar size at 34".
> 
> Of the points contenders, Kittel was in Cavendish's bus but Sagan was in the early one. I don't know if the late group beat the cut-off time, but if not won't there be a points deduction, following previous form?


It'll depends how many French riders were in it


----------



## GrumpyGregry (9 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Congratulations to Froome for always trying something new. It certainly works and confuses the other riders. Problem is, you can only do it once before others cotton on.
> Could someone tell me why they need to warm down at the end of a stage? Theses guys have been pedalling for 4 hours + , I would have thought that a massage would be more efficient to relax the leg muscles.


Gets the lactic out of the legs more effectively than massage alone. According to sports scientists, I'm told. All about those marginal gains in performance and recovery.


----------



## Beebo (9 Jul 2016)

Is there anything in the rules about hitting spectators?
Has anyone ever been punished for it?
At what point do they draw the line?


----------



## StuAff (9 Jul 2016)

Thinking of Hinault decking the guy when a strike demonstration blocked the race, I'd guess no.....and stopping someone from knocking you (or someone else) off should be reasonably considered self-defence.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

I enjoyed the stage that much I'm now going to watch the highlights.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

ITV just shown the kite coming down on Yates from yesterday.


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I enjoyed the stage that much I'm now going to watch the highlights.


Me too!


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (9 Jul 2016)




----------



## Bollo (9 Jul 2016)

I managed not to find out today until the highlights show. Wow. Just wow.


----------



## jamma (9 Jul 2016)

Did anyone see him hit the fan just before the summit imho the fan deserved it espiscally when you don't have to straighten your arm out sort of says your too close to me. Also shocking that he got fined for it 200 swiss francs


----------



## coffeejo (9 Jul 2016)

To be honest, I'm more surprised that Froome has finally learned to tuck his elbows in on descents.


----------



## ianrauk (9 Jul 2016)

jamma said:


> Did anyone see him hit the fan just before the summit imho the fan deserved it espiscally when you don't have to straighten your arm out sort of says your too close to me. Also shocking that he got fined for it 200 swiss francs


----------



## Guyincognito76 (9 Jul 2016)

jamma said:


> Did anyone see him hit the fan just before the summit imho the fan deserved it espiscally when you don't have to straighten your arm out sort of says your too close to me. Also shocking that he got fined for it 200 swiss francs



The fan might have said something too. A £150 fine is less than what he earned going over the top first


----------



## screenman (9 Jul 2016)

I think the fan said ouch!


----------



## jarlrmai (9 Jul 2016)

Did Froome have a neutral service wheel on the front during the descent.


----------



## pawl (9 Jul 2016)

Guyincognito76 said:


> Well, I won't be trying that tomorrow. Terrifying!





If he's on the the top step of the podium inParis he will be singing the national anthem in soprano.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (9 Jul 2016)

Can't blame him being wary of roadside interaction after last year & the bottle of supermarket lager urine being thrown over him


----------



## Guyincognito76 (9 Jul 2016)

jamma said:


> Did anyone see him hit the fan just before the summit imho the fan deserved it espiscally when you don't have to straighten your arm out sort of says your too close to me. Also shocking that he got fined for it 200 swiss francs



The Adam Yates video of Friday's incident was more shocking.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (9 Jul 2016)

200 Swiss franc fine for jabbing the chicken. I'm sure they said on the live transmission he got 250 for going over the second to last climb in second, sounds like a fair deal.


----------



## p1pp (9 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Congratulations to Froome for always trying something new.



Congratulations to Froome. Today he was really amazing... However, the style is not new; it was invented by Slovenian cyclist Matej Mohorič: 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwV3YUlZSxI
... but Froome did it very well.


----------



## Smokin Joe (9 Jul 2016)

It must be bloody maddening to be busting a gut on a climb and have some idiot running alongside screaming in your ear. There is always the risk of one of them taking a rider down, as has happened a few times.


----------



## SWSteve (9 Jul 2016)

Have Team Sky started to race, as opposed to winning races. 

They've started sending men up the road in stages to keep options open, and now with this, considering they used to be accused of being too clinical, could it be they've started racing 'properly?


----------



## Smokin Joe (9 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Have Team Sky started to race, as opposed to winning races.
> 
> They've started sending men up the road in stages to keep options open, and now with this, considering they used to be accused of being too clinical, could it be they've started racing 'properly?


'Properly?

You race to win, and to win you ride to the team's strengths, whatever they may be on the day. No prizes for being a plucky loser.


----------



## 400bhp (9 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> It must be bloody maddening to be busting a gut on a climb and have some idiot running alongside screaming in your ear. There is always the risk of one of them taking a rider down, as has happened a few times.



Happened in the Giro mountain TT when a nobend got in the way of Nibali Deserved it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (9 Jul 2016)

Froomedawg Five finger death punch


----------



## rich p (9 Jul 2016)

Tomorrow should show us whether Froome and Quintana are as strong as they appear and whether anyone else is capable of staying near them.
Martin has looked better than I expected; not sure yet about Bardet, Aru or Porte;
Pinot, Contador and Nibali are busted flushes. 
J Rod should start to suffer.


----------



## brommers (9 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Tomorrow should show us whether Froome and Quintana are as strong as they appear and whether anyone else is capable of staying near them.
> Martin has looked better than I expected; not sure yet about Bardet, Aru or Porte;
> Pinot, Contador and Nibali are busted flushes.
> J Rod should start to suffer


What about Yates?


----------



## Roadrider48 (9 Jul 2016)

Good on Froomey! Shame he didn't catch him with a clenched fist and knocked him over properly.


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Did Froome have a neutral service wheel on the front during the descent.


I was wondering why he looked to have mismatched wheels...


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wouldn't want to hit a pothole riding like that


Stunts you should only do when the roads are repaired and swept for you?


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

EnPassant said:


> No expert at any of this, but to me it appears one of Froome or Brailsford is a fibber. I think it's Froome.
> That was planned.


I think it's Brailsford. The big gears were mainly in case it came down to a chase or reduced bunch sprint into the finish, but Froome had been experimenting in the wind tunnel and training and decided now was a good time for a race test, as his rivals had seemed unhurried to bring him back after he snaffled the previous mountain points.


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> That chain flopping around crazy.


Downside of oval chainrings?


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Eurosport are just going live


France televisions claimed to go live at 1250 UK time (if they didn't sneak any live shots into their "Village Depart" show). No idea if they did because I was out riding my bike  in the rain  to a country pub


----------



## mjr (9 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Froome is only in with a chance on a long uphill finish,


I think you annoyed him


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (10 Jul 2016)

Froome didn't invent the top tube pedalling jobby, but he's now thrown it into the GC game. It'll be interesting to see whether it now becomes part of the top riders' skill set. Good fast sweeping descents might never look the same again in the mountain races. 

And Sky were looking so much like Sky until then....


----------



## Foghat (10 Jul 2016)

p1pp said:


> ... However, the style is not new; it was invented by Slovenian cyclist Matej Mohorič



It's much older than that. I first used it in the Alps in 1988, and I was just trying out something I'd seen done by several riders on tv coverage of the Tour. It must have been going on for years before that. Mohorič seems to have developed an ability to use it for extended periods, though.

Never used it much myself, as it's so uncomfortable, and certainly couldn't sustain it for any great distance, despite the fact we raced every Alpine descent flat out and viewed getting to the bottom first as a matter of descending honour. Plus it's far too unstable (and eye-watering) on anything but very smooth and even roads........so unsuited to virtually all British descents.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

User said:


> It is painful to see Contador suffering in this way. Like an old lion ousted from its pride.


I almost feel sorry for him.

Almost.


----------



## Fab Foodie (10 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Froome didn't invent the top tube pedalling jobby, but he's now thrown it into the GC game. It'll be interesting to see whether it now becomes part of the top riders' skill set. Good fast sweeping descents might never look the same again in the mountain races.
> 
> And Sky were looking so much like Sky until then....


I'm expecting to see a new range of bikes with flattened top tubes ....


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> I'm expecting to see a new range of bikes with flattened top tubes ....


With padded headsets and stems.


----------



## 400bhp (10 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Stunts you should only do when the roads are repaired and swept for you?



Well, I have seen it several times this year on the UK circuit, the first time on the Chorley GP this year and the roads wouldn't have been repaired & swept for that.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> What about Yates?


Yes, there are others. Teejay, Valverde for instance.
Do you think Yates is strong enough to podium?


----------



## Tin Pot (10 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> With padded headsets and stems.



And boxing gloves that shoot out of the left shifter.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

User said:


> It is painful to see Contador suffering in this way. Like an old lion ousted from its pride.


An old lion who is vegetarian these days?


----------



## perplexed (10 Jul 2016)

I had to change my undercrackers after Froome's descent...

What do we reckon to Yates' chances of winning the Tour in, say 3 or 4 years time? I'm just idly wondering if we can imagine a Yates v Bardet battle (with a couple of others) in the same way as it currently appears to be Froome v Quintana (plus a couple of others)...


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Foghat said:


> Mohorič seems to have developed an ability to use it for extended periods, though.



That's the key - it's not just doing it, it's doing it for more than a few revolutions.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

EnPassant said:


> Thanks HF that seems intuitively sensible. Sort of "planned to be used if the opportunity arises".



Possibly not even that planned, just played with / discussed. It'd also suit Brailsford to make the opposition think they've got lots of tricks up their sleeve.

You often get these things when one person seems to say the opposite of another, but really it's the same thing from two viewpoints.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> To be honest, I'm more surprised that Froome has finally learned to tuck his elbows in on descents.



Maybe if he'd stuck to his former 'style' the fan wouldn't have been able to get that close...


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Tomorrow should show us whether Froome and Quintana are as strong as they appear and whether anyone else is capable of staying near them.
> Martin has looked better than I expected; not sure yet about Bardet, Aru or Porte;
> Pinot, Contador and Nibali are busted flushes.
> J Rod should start to suffer.



Purito hasn't really appeared on the radar this year, but he's quietly doing much better than I think many would have expected. Be interesting to see if he cracks today or stays highly placed. Difficult to see him staying with it if Sky vs Movistar really kicks off, but you never know...


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Maybe if he'd stuck to his former 'style' the fan wouldn't have been able to get that close...


I think I'd rather a punch from Froome's fist than a sideways swipe from his elbow.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

To prove that my morning coffee is kicking in, I've just remembered that the coverage on ITV4 starts at one today instead of two o'clock.


----------



## EnPassant (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Possibly not even that planned, just played with / discussed. It'd also suit Brailsford to make the opposition think they've got lots of tricks up their sleeve.
> 
> You often get these things when one person seems to say the opposite of another, but really it's the same thing from two viewpoints.



I'm just basing it on two things really: firstly I can't imagine anyone with no history of flying down hills that way pedalling like fury with their gentlemens parts on the crossbar at 80+ kph doing so off the cuff without practicing it in advance to be used on such an occasion (I guess I can easily be convinced of, planned but maybe not planned for this exact moment); and secondly at least to me "I just happened to have a big gear on" doesn't sound right on a day that was all hills and includes the Tourmalet.
Perhaps this just shows how little I know or how different from normal humans the pro's are, but I'd be putting a dinner plate on the back and a cotton reel on the front for that day out (and until I get fitter a battery down the seatpost, but I digress).
I'm on this site to learn though, and am doing so at a rate of knots (though perhaps less than Froome down that descent and certainly more safely for my nether regions).


----------



## Dave Davenport (10 Jul 2016)

EnPassant said:


> I'm just basing it on two things really: firstly I can't imagine anyone with no history of flying down hills that way pedalling like fury with their gentlemens parts on the crossbar at 80+ kph doing so off the cuff without practicing it in advance to be used on such an occasion (I guess I can easily be convinced of, planned but maybe not planned for this exact moment); and secondly at least to me "I just happened to have a big gear on" doesn't sound right on a day that was all hills and includes the Tourmalet.
> Perhaps this just shows how little I know or how different from normal humans the pro's are, but I'd be putting a dinner plate on the back and a cotton reel on the front for that day out (and until I get fitter a battery down the seatpost, but I digress).
> I'm on this site to learn though, and am doing so at a rate of knots (though perhaps less than Froome down that descent and certainly more safely for my nether regions).


Re. the big gear; Probably had one on as it was a fast downhill finish where the likes of Valverde or Contador might try to gain time.


----------



## Tin Pot (10 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Re. the big gear; Probably had one on as it was a fast downhill finish where the likes of Valverde or Contador might try to gain time.



Any clue as to what the gearing was?

I saw him hit 90kph, but his revs didn't look that high to me.


----------



## EnPassant (10 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Is this a verb now?


Oh boy, I hate this, and with the Olympics coming up we're bound to hear a recurrence of "medaling". Grr.



Dave Davenport said:


> Re. the big gear; Probably had one on as it was a fast downhill finish where the likes of Valverde or Contador might try to gain time.


Forgive my lack of knowledge but does this not entail a compromise? Either you change the chainwheels for larger or the cassette for smaller or some variation with larger jumps than the standard? Thus losing some of your uphill flexibility for this one section? But I shall look this up if I can, don't want to derail this thread with my ignorance.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

EnPassant said:


> I'm just basing it on two things really: firstly I can't imagine anyone with no history of flying down hills that way pedalling like fury with their gentlemens parts on the crossbar at 80+ kph doing so off the cuff without practicing it in advance to be used on such an occasion (I guess I can easily be convinced of, planned but maybe not planned for this exact moment); and secondly at least to me "I just happened to have a big gear on" doesn't sound right on a day that was all hills and includes the Tourmalet.
> Perhaps this just shows how little I know or how different from normal humans the pro's are, but I'd be putting a dinner plate on the back and a cotton reel on the front for that day out (and until I get fitter a battery down the seatpost, but I digress).
> I'm on this site to learn though, and am doing so at a rate of knots (though perhaps less than Froome down that descent and certainly more safely for my nether regions).



Well, don't take what I say as gospel! I'm just taking a rationalist approach to two different comments about the same situation.

To add to what @Dave Davenport said, he did say he'd picked a big gear in case it was needed on the fast downhill finish. Sandbagging or misleading? You have to make up your own mind - we're unlikely ever to really know. For me, it's probably more impromptu than Brailsford said but rather less impromptu than Froome suggested.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Any clue as to what the gearing was?
> 
> I saw him hit 90kph, but his revs didn't look that high to me.



Didn't he say he'd taken a 54 or am I dreaming that?


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

Yes 54. 

Judging by Brailsfords comments, I think he was using Froome's attack to cast some doubt amongst other teams.


----------



## Dave Davenport (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Yes 54.


Which would mean he could still run something like a 42x25 lowest gear, which would be fine (for a pro) on that stage's gradients.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Is this a verb now?


Yes. 
Get with it Grandad...


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

User said:


> ...silent...


You mean, you?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (10 Jul 2016)

Coverage already started on Eurosport, ITV starts at 13:00.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Coverage already started on Eurosport, ITV starts at 13:00.


What? Cheers, bang goes the house cleaning.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (10 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> What? Cheers, bang goes the house cleaning.



They've jumped to a segment on Nibili, but said they will be back to the race once they get out of the neutral zone (is that the correct term, or have I slipped back into Star Trek?)


----------



## brommers (10 Jul 2016)

Mark Renshaw has retired


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

45 man break at km 7, including Majka, Dumoulin T, Sagan, Pinot. Relatively few GC so I don't suppose it will be allowed to stay away though.Guess Sagan's aiming for the sprint point. Bertie's just gone to catch them.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Judging by Brailsfords comments, I think he was using Froome's attack to cast some doubt amongst other teams.



Yes, that's why I thought it was somewhere in between. Particularly his 'Ah, didn't expect that, did you?' sounded as though maybe he hadn't quite either.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

From the race ticker at 15km:

De Gendt alone in the lead

Anacona, Herrada, Izaguirre, Izaguirrre, Grivko, Rosa, Sanchez, Sagan, Majka, Bakelants, Gautier, Pozzovivo, Vuillermoz, Bennnett, Zubeldia, Frank, Clement, Coppel, Pantano, Craddock, Howes, Slagter, Van Baarle, Moinard, Berhane, Pauwels, Dumoulin T, Pinot, Roy, Bendetti, Konrad, Voss, Costa, Bono, Grmay, Gallopin, Chavanel, Sicard, Voeckler, Navarro, Cousin, Edet, Matthews, Plaza, Feillu at 10 seconds

Sepulveda at 40 seconds

Contador, Henao and Valverde at 45 seconds

Kiserlovski at 55 seconds

Peloton at 1.05

Mark Cavendish has been dropped.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Mark Cavendish has been dropped.



Actually not quite as bad as it sounds - according to the tracker, he's in quite a big sprinters' grupetto


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Front group now down to 25 or so including Majka and Bertie.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

11:38: ROLLAND GETS DROPPED
Pierre Rolland is getting dropped by the main peloton. He hit a wall yesterday.

Do we think that's metaphorical or did he hit an actual wall?


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> 11:38: ROLLAND GETS DROPPED
> Pierre Rolland is getting dropped by the main peloton. He hit a wall yesterday.
> 
> Do we think that's metaphorical or did he hit an actual wall?



No, real. The coverage showed him clipping back in and the commentators thought he'd crashed, but there was a big stone retaining wall on the outside of the bend and I think he ran wide and scraped it without actually falling.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Mark Renshaw has retired


According to Dimension Data, he was ill last night and despite starting the race, couldn't continue.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They've jumped to a segment on Nibili, but said they will be back to the race once they get out of the neutral zone (is that the correct term, or have I slipped back into Star Trek?)


I'm hoovering the front room which is a double bonus as I don't have to listen to Kirby


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Eurosport seem to have rechristened Contador 'Alberta'


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

21 riders in the lead
Alejandro Valverde, Winner Anacona, Jesus Herrada (Movistar), Diego Rosa, Luis Leon Sanchez (Astana), Rafal Majka, Peter Sagan (Tinkoff), Alexis Vuillermoz (AG2R-LaMondiale), George Bennett (Lotto-Jumbo), Mathias Frank, Stef Clement, Jérôme Coppel (IAM), Natnael Berhane (Dimension Data), Tom Dumoulin (Giant), Thibaut Pinot (FDJ), Rui Costa, Tsgabu Grmay (Lampre-Merida), Thomas De Gendt, Tony Gallopin (Lotto-Soudal), Dani Navarro, Nicolas Edet (Cofidis). 
Peloton at 2.05 at km 38.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

The TDF tracker says Sagan caught up with the leading group on the descent. Dare I ask how he rode?!


----------



## Tin Pot (10 Jul 2016)

What happened to Cav yesterday and what was this talk of getting in a bus?


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> What happened to Cav yesterday and what was this talk of getting in a bus?


Cav doesn't like the Pyrenees, specifically going up them on a bicycle. He threw up several times yesterday from the effort, which should put off anyone who ever wants to touch one of his bikes as an act of reverence.

As for the bus, it's the autobus, a slang term for the group of riders clinging on at the back of the race, all hating the mountains (whether because they're not climbers or because they're ill or injured) and desperately trying to stay within the time limit to avoid getting eliminated.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> As for the bus, it's the autobus, a slang term for the group of riders clinging on at the back of the race, all hating the mountains (whether because they're not climbers or because they're ill or injured) and desperately trying to stay within the time limit to avoid getting eliminated.



You might also hear it called the grupetto or laughing group. Part of the idea is they'll get over the mountains better as a group working for each other, part of it is that if there are a lot of them and they do go over the time limit for the stage, the organisers won't be able to eliminate them as they'd lose too many of the peloton.

There's also a real bus, or minibus; the voiture balai, or broom wagon, so called as it follows the race and sweeps up riders who've abandoned. No-one wants to get in that if they can avoid it.


----------



## mjr (10 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They've jumped to a segment on Nibili, but said they will be back to the race once they get out of the neutral zone (is that the correct term, or have I slipped back into Star Trek?)


Well, Nibali did get disqualified for being a cling on...


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Alejandro Valverde said:


> "I did my work uphill, it was Nairo Quintana's job to follow Froome".


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Well, Nibali did get disqualified for being a cling on...



Took you far too long to think of that one...


----------



## Flying_Monkey (10 Jul 2016)

Valverde seems to have dropped back to the peleton as his presence in the breakaway was proving unpopular (he is too high up in GC for Sky not to catch a breakaway with him in it).


----------



## lutonloony (10 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> To prove that my morning coffee is kicking in, I've just remembered that the coverage on ITV4 starts at one today instead of two o'clock.


Cheers for that


----------



## mjr (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Took you far too long to think of that one...


 I was messing with bike bits this morning not reading CC.

France 3's break bumpers make the Skoda "aren't cyclists nobbers?" ones on ITV seem positively sane. They seem to consist of groundhog pop/rock bands boogieing.


----------



## brommers (10 Jul 2016)

Will the peloton bother to hunt down the breakaway group?


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Peloton at 4 minutes now, but all the stragglers and grupetto are back in it bar Voeckler, Howard and Fonseca, according to the tracker.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Jul 2016)

Doesn't look like a good day for Dirty Bertie...

Tinkoff's sport director Sean Yates told Francetelevisions from his team car: “Alberto [Contador] had a bit of fever this morning. He told us at the beginning of the race that he wasn't feeling super and it's obvious. We've told him to stay quiet. Now the peloton is going slower, which is better for his recovery after the fast start this morning.”


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Wow. Contador's abandoned!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Jul 2016)

And that's it for Dirty Bertie. All over.


----------



## Bollo (10 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Doesn't look like a good day for Dirty Bertie...
> 
> Tinkoff's sport director Sean Yates told Francetelevisions from his team car: “Alberto [Contador] had a bit of fever this morning. He told us at the beginning of the race that he wasn't feeling super and it's obvious. We've told him to stay quiet. Now the peloton is going slower, which is better for his recovery after the fast start this morning.”


Contador's abandoned

(3rd!)


----------



## brommers (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Wow. Contador's abandoned!


Bragging right for the fastest post


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

All is not good in Tinkoff.


----------



## Booyaa (10 Jul 2016)

He looked totally done (Contador) shame for him but he was not going to feature at the sharp end anyway.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Makes you wonder why he went on the early break.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> All is not good in Tinkoff.



Seem to be a lot of internal divisions in the GC teams, Sky excepted.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Pinot rides like the clappers and totally fails to get past De Gendt


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Cav's straggling again. Bernie Eisel looking after him.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Seem to be a lot of internal divisions in the GC teams, Sky excepted.


You're right, GMC with two jokers, Movistar with Valverde, Astana, though that one's largely resloved by dint of Nibali being a bit shoot this tour but Tinkoff are all riding for themselves.


----------



## Bollo (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Cav's straggling again. Bernie Eisel looking after him.


Do you think Cav's having problems because he's henched up for the track expecting to abandon before the mountains, but now he's got a taste for it and wants to reach Paris?


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> Do you think Cav's having problems because he's henched up for the track expecting to abandon before the mountains, but now he's got a taste for it and wants to reach Paris?


I suspect he hasn't been doing the endurance training he normally would


----------



## Bollo (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> All is not good in Tinkoff.


Dead team walking. When I saw the Tinkoff team car sail past in stage one after Bertie's crash, Oleg just looked completely dafodilled off. The phrase "Billionaire chewing a wasp" came to mind.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> You're right, GMC with two jokers, Movistar with Valverde, Astana, though that one's largely resloved by dint of Nibali being a bit shoot this tour but Tinkoff are all riding for themselves.



It was said yesterday that everyone was chasing Froome flat out, but it seemed to me he was catchable - or shouldn't have got away in the first place - if BMC and Movistar were really working properly. Boardman and Millar seemed to feel the same in commentary. Valverde's 'more than my job's worth' comment lastnight was telling. The split in Astana may be less critical but it's got to affect things. In hindsight if Bertie had put his stamp on things from the start the team might have pulled together around him, but after the crashes and uncertainty it seemed Kreuziger and Majka were pinging off on their own and there was no real focus. Can't help feeling that if they don't take responsibility the other teams are going to hand this to Sky.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

@coffeejo what's today's cake?


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> @coffeejo what's today's cake?




No cake... Have got Ben and Jerry's though. Can't think why the diet isn't working!


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

ITV4 have just asked what we'll do tomorrow as there's no racing. I suppose I might actually have to get some work done.


----------



## Hill Wimp (10 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ITV4 have just asked what we'll do tomorrow as there's no racing. I suppose I might actually have to get some work done.




I always take these 3 weeks off. I usually cycle in the morning, home for lunch ready for the start of the TV coverage each day. Tomorrow I can do a longer ride


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

I see where I've been going wrong. It's not my love of cake and Ben and Jerry's. It's the sausages...


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

Can't see anyone but Sky pulling this break back


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2016)

1. I've just done 50 miles and the group had 5 punctures.
2. That 100 year old driver ad with the Queen soundtrack is distasteful, especially bookending cycling coverage.
3. Sagan must have sat on his bottom bracket to catch them back on the descent.
4. I've just had a Mars ice cream which is clearly the best ice cream.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Can't see anyone but Sky pulling this break back



Assuming they want to.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> 1. I've just done 50 miles and the group had 5 punctures.
> 2. That 100 year old driver ad with the Queen soundtrack is distasteful, especially bookending cycling coverage.
> 3. Sagan must have sat on his bottom bracket to catch them back on the descent.
> 4. I've just had a Mars ice cream which is clearly the best ice cream.


1. Urgh. 
2. Glad it's not just me who thinks so. 
3. Lol
4.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

Petulant Pinot.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Look where you're going!!


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Well timed break by Dumoulin, if he's got the strength he might have this.


----------



## Booyaa (10 Jul 2016)

Another idiot spectator. Hope it hurt (but he makes a recovery).

The hail looks brutal.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

Apocalyptic weather


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Booyaa said:


> Another idiot spectator. Hope it hurt (but he makes a recovery).
> 
> The hail looks brutal.


And another one.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Apocalyptic weather


They'd freeze on a descent!


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

I keep looking out the window thinking it's raining because you can hear it so loudly on the commentary.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

1km for Dumoulin. He's got this.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Is Porte attacking or domestique-ing for Froome?


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2016)

Naked lady on TV alert.


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2016)

So Martin, Froome and Yates in the GC group so good to see.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Jul 2016)

Looks like the future of British cycling is secure for many years to come.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Naked lady on TV alert.



Well get her off, she'll break it


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

Well, well, things shake out a bit without anything definitive. Yates and Martin riding so well but no attack from Quintana.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Belting finish by Yates - and interesting that neither Froome or Quintana could really make a break.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Jul 2016)

Pinot keeps just 3 points over Majka


----------



## SWSteve (10 Jul 2016)

Yates is looking great, but you've got to worry if he will do a Chavez due to no support on the hills. Didn't expect Martin to still be with them come the end. 

Looks a great Tour so far


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Jul 2016)

You gotta love Pinot and his flounces. Excellent value strop-nobber


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Jul 2016)

The grupetto have arrived, within time limit


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> You gotta love Pinot and his flounces. Excellent value strop-nobber


He's a prick. 
He supposed to be fighting for the GC and instead he flunks out and gets a childish strop because he doesn't like the way they're not pandering to his 'roolz' of engagement in the break. 
If he ends up winning the KOM it will be akin to Wigan winning the FA Cup while being relegated. Twat.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Yes, there are others. Teejay, Valverde for instance.
> Do you think Yates is strong enough to podium?


Hmmm, maybe!


----------



## Dave Davenport (10 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> He's a prick.
> He supposed to be fighting for the GC and instead he flunks out and gets a childish strop because he doesn't like the way they're not pandering to his 'roolz' of engagement in the break.
> If he ends up winning the KOM it will be akin to Wigan winning the FA Cup while being relegated. Twat.


Rich P sitting on the fence as per usual


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

Sergio Henao is showing that he can be a GC contender I think. He's doing pretty well even as a domestique, imagine if he was being protected.


----------



## themosquitoking (10 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, maybe!





Dave Davenport said:


> Rich P sitting on the fence as per usual


Edit, that's the post you should have quoted.


----------



## rich p (10 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Edit, that's the post you should have quoted.


I am very nuanced!
Another fine example of modern speech evolution @User


----------



## 400bhp (10 Jul 2016)

Whilst all around him dance around like headless chickens, the silent assin stalks his prey and waits for his moment.

Quintana...

When...


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2016)

assin...


----------



## Big Dave laaa (10 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Whilst all around him dance around like headless chickens, the silent assin stalks his prey and waits for his moment.
> 
> Quintana...
> 
> When...



If Quintana had it he'd have showed his hand today. Psychological advantage would have been his if he'd beaten Froome to the finish.


----------



## themosquitoking (10 Jul 2016)

Ass a sin? Not a judgement on sexual preference just a epihany that all the word needs is a couple of spaces.


----------



## themosquitoking (10 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> If Quintana had it he'd have showed his hand today. Psychological advantage would have been his if he'd beaten Froome to the finish.


Last year he smashed Froome on stages 19 & 20 but lost time in the first week. This year he hasn't lost time in the first week.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (10 Jul 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Last year he smashed Froome on stages 19 & 20 but lost time in the first week. This year he hasn't lost time in the first week.


He's 23 seconds down. Not a massive time gap agreed but hardly in s comfortable position. I stand by what i said, if he had it he'd have shown it today.


----------



## jarlrmai (10 Jul 2016)

He made up big time last year in the hills, but he lost it in that wind early on.


----------



## Crackle (10 Jul 2016)

There are still two weeks to go, two tt's, Ventoux and a host of climbs, I don't think we've seen either Froome or Quintana give everything yet and Quintana on past form has been strongest in the third week, as jerry Anderson said, anything can happen in the next two weeks.


----------



## Crandoggler (10 Jul 2016)

Froome looks like he's going to stroll through this. Quintana looked utterly lost when Froome attacked downhill and showed nothing more today. He won't withstand a proper break from Froome in my opinion. 

But who knows.


----------



## beastie (10 Jul 2016)

I'm not sure if Quintana was on the limit today or if he is playing a canny long game. He didn't look like he was enjoy in the last climb. 
He will almost certainly lose time on the rolling TT so I think he will wish to gain time when he can.
It was great to see Dan Martin and Adam Yates up at the sharp end.


----------



## perplexed (11 Jul 2016)

I'm not too sure that Quintana has done anything except stare at Froome's backside for the first week.

Ok, Froome's obviously been well protected by Sky, but he has attacked a number of times on his own and indeed won a stage with that spectacular descent. But there's no wonder Quintana wakes up in week 3 as he's effectively done bugger-all work, sheltered for the first two by Movistar _and_ Sky!


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (11 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> I'm not too sure that Quintana has done anything except stare at Froome's backside for the first week.
> 
> Ok, Froome's obviously been well protected by Sky, but he has attacked a number of times on his own and indeed won a stage with that spectacular descent. But there's no wonder Quintana wakes up in week 3 as he's effectively done bugger-all work, sheltered for the first two by Movistar _and_ Sky!


Isn't that referred to as 'tactics'?


----------



## perplexed (11 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Isn't that referred to as 'tactics'?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Looks like the future of British cycling is secure for many years to come.



And Irish cycling!



Marmion said:


> The grupetto have arrived, within time limit



Even better, Cav is still in green - just! The next few days could be interesting. No doubt Sagan will be on the hunt for intermediate sprint points but is there a chance of another Cav win on stage 11, perhaps?


----------



## smutchin (11 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> There are still two weeks to go, two tt's, Ventoux and a host of climbs, I don't think we've seen either Froome or Quintana give everything yet and Quintana on past form has been strongest in the third week, as jerry Anderson said, anything can happen in the next two weeks.



Indeed. Froome looks incredibly strong but it's far too soon to write off Quintana. 

Besides which, there's still plenty of opportunity for either or both to crash out yet. The fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat yet.


----------



## roadrash (11 Jul 2016)

Agreed its too early to write off quintana, but after seeing him interviewed before the start of the tour and him claiming he was more tactically aware this year, then you wouldnt expect to see what happened on friday.
when froome went at the top of the last climb, quintana looked like a 7 year old in the school playground whos best friend hadnt turned up for school that day, instead of chasing froome down , he just looked around for valverde, ..... not what i would call tactically aware.
That said im still looking forward to (hoping) quintana putting in some sort of attack.


----------



## coffeejo (11 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Even better, Cav is still in green - just! The next few days could be interesting. No doubt Sagan will be on the hunt for intermediate sprint points but is there a chance of another Cav win on stage 11, perhaps?


I had been thinking that Cav's form in the TdF had been jinxed since I went to see him win on the Champs-Élysées for the 100th Tour (Kittel won) but yesterday I was reminded that Cav hasn't won on the Champs-Élysées since Wiggo was his lead out man in 2012. Personally, I'm blaming Sir Bradley.


----------



## HF2300 (11 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> ... Cav has clearly sacrified a bit of road stamina for track speed this year. It's Cav who will most likely not make it to Paris of these three





smutchin said:


> Even better, Cav is still in green - just! The next few days could be interesting. No doubt Sagan will be on the hunt for intermediate sprint points but is there a chance of another Cav win on stage 11, perhaps?



Let me throw something else into the Cav mix - and I might be barking up completely the wrong tree. He's said he was cooked and didn't expect to do so badly on Saturday; and he clearly was struggling badly. Yesterday he yo-yoed a bit, but on the whole kept in the grupetto. He's also referred to knowing what they need to do to stay inside the cut, knowing what output they need to maintain, and so on. He's also referred to struggling with heat, rather than condition.

For sure, he had a bad day Saturday - but I wonder if, with half an eye on the Olympics, he is generally just doing the minimum he needs to stay in the race on the stages he's not going to compete on, and not perhaps quite as bad as he seems?

If he is struggling, with the Souvenir Henri Desgranges tomorrow and a bit of a lumpy stage on Wednesday Stage 11 will depend on how bushed he is coming out of the Pyrennees - but you'd think on current sprint form he must be targeting it.


----------



## Dogtrousers (11 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> For sure, he had a bad day Saturday - but I wonder if, with half an eye on the Olympics, he is generally _*just doing the minimum he needs to stay in the race on the stages he's not going to compete on*_, and not perhaps quite as bad as he seems?


I thought that was what all sprinters did, all the time. And all riders except the top contenders do, some of the time (when not called on to be supporting their leader).


----------



## Booyaa (11 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I had been thinking that Cav's form in the TdF had been jinxed since I went to see him win on the Champs-Élysées for the 100th Tour (Kittel won) but yesterday I was reminded that Cav hasn't won on the Champs-Élysées since Wiggo was his lead out man in 2012. Personally, I'm blaming Sir Bradley.


Funny that, Sir Bradley defo blames you. Not sure what Cav thinks though.


----------



## mjr (11 Jul 2016)

roadrash said:


> when froome went at the top of the last climb, quintana looked like a 7 year old in the school playground whos best friend hadnt turned up for school that day, instead of chasing froome down , he just looked around for valverde, ..... not what i would call tactically aware.


Was he looking around for Valverde or was it a general looking around to see if ANYONE else in that group (Bardet, Aru, Mollema, the BMCs...) was interested in trying to win the race? Most of the others will find it harder to take back 23s from Froome on the later uphill finishes but it seemed like nope, none of them really see themselves as contenders.

When the USA's eventual-loser was dominating the race, such looking back to see if anyone else would take up the chase was portrayed by P+P as some great sign of confidence in his later strength (and we know why now!), but now it's reported as weakness or laziness - is that because this time it's a South American and that's the stereotype?


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2016)

roadrash said:


> Agreed its too early to write off quintana, but after seeing him interviewed before the start of the tour and him claiming he was more tactically aware this year, then you wouldnt expect to see what happened on friday.
> when froome went at the top of the last climb, quintana looked like a 7 year old in the school playground whos best friend hadnt turned up for school that day, instead of chasing froome down , he just looked around for valverde, ..... not what i would call tactically aware.
> That said im still looking forward to (hoping) quintana putting in some sort of attack.



But what Froome did was completely unexpected. Have any of the riders outside Sky actually seen his descenting skills? I can't remember one time I have seen him descending on the front.

Don't forget Porte is his mate and was his number 2 and he missed it.

I suspect it went like this:

Quintana: thinking..."hmm, long descent, what's the fecker doing. Bit odd. 
Valpiti comes along Qunitana..
Valpiti: "don't worry Nairo, we'll pull him back before the end"
Meanwhile, Porte and TJ in conversation: "ach, don't worry, Valpiti is on the front & he can pull back anyone"

5 minutes later...Porte: "WTF, WTF, come on TJ let's get on the front"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (11 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Indeed. Froome looks incredibly strong but it's far too soon to write off Quintana.
> 
> Besides which, there's still plenty of opportunity for either or both to crash out yet. The fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat yet.


I did not pick Froomedawg in punditry as I reckon he will crash out.


----------



## perplexed (11 Jul 2016)

roadrash said:


> Agreed its too early to write off quintana, but after seeing him interviewed before the start of the tour and him claiming he was more tactically aware this year, then you wouldnt expect to see what happened on friday.
> when froome went at the top of the last climb, *quintana looked like a 7 year old* in the school playground whos best friend hadnt turned up for school that day, instead of chasing froome down , he just looked around for valverde, ..... not what i would call tactically aware.
> That said im still looking forward to (hoping) quintana putting in some sort of attack.



Quintana was born looking 50. Nobody ever in the history of the universe has said he looks 7 until now...


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2016)

Should be a 'charge' up the mountain Tuesday as there is a prize on offer at the top.


----------



## jarlrmai (11 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Should be a 'charge' up the mountain Tuesday as there is a prize on offer at the top.



Is it cake?


----------



## BSRU (11 Jul 2016)

It seems Chris Froome's lack of ability to have massive time gaps on his rivals is due to not having mechanical doping, implying that's how it did in the past tours.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bra...n=Feed:+cyclingnews/news+(Cyclingnews:+News+)


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Is it cake?


No. A mountain goat.


----------



## coffeejo (11 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Is it cake?


I'm setting off now.



brommers said:


> No. A mountain goat.


Oh. 

Well, I _am_ a Capricorn...


----------



## HF2300 (11 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I thought that was what all sprinters did, all the time. And all riders except the top contenders do, some of the time (when not called on to be supporting their leader).



Yes, it occurred to me while I was writing it I wasn't explaining myself very well. What I was trying to suggest was that he was doing it in a way which gave the impression that he was in more difficulty, and therefore more likely to abandon, than he actually is, if that's any clearer. If it isn't I'll get my voiture balai.



smutchin said:


> The fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat yet.



And I suspect won't until Ventoux.


----------



## Dogtrousers (11 Jul 2016)

Been posted already? Http://inrng.com/2016/07/rest-day-wrap/


----------



## coffeejo (11 Jul 2016)

I'd not seen the footage of Froome riding straight into that poor spectator before.


----------



## EnPassant (11 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I'd not seen the footage of Froome riding straight into that poor spectator before.


I wonder why this happens to some poor unfortunate who makes a minor mis-step and not the nobbers in the superman costumes or the spandex onesies running in the way of everyone. Way of the world I suppose.


----------



## Dogtrousers (11 Jul 2016)

On my ride along the tour route ahead of stage 3 I was accompanied up a hill by a jester with bells and all running alongside shouting encouragement in French. Or maybe it was abuse, I don't know. What does "gros nobbeur" mean?

Actually, he didn't need to run all that fast. Sauntering, strolling or perhaps moseying would be more appropriate.


----------



## coffeejo (11 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> On my ride along the tour route ahead of stage 3 I was accompanied up a hill by a jester with bells and all running alongside shouting encouragement in French. Or maybe it was abuse, I don't know. What does "gros nobbeur" mean?
> 
> Actually, he didn't need to run all that fast. Sauntering, strolling or perhaps moseying would be more appropriate.


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2016)

User said:


> I think it is a compliment


You must get called some names then!


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2016)

Who will be first over the Pont d'Envalira? Majka?


----------



## 400bhp (11 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Who will be first over the Pont d'Envalira? Majka?



Probably Froome on some mad dog solo break with a new uphill style - "the 54-11 grinder" . You heard it here first folks.

Probably Mr Miajka


----------



## brommers (11 Jul 2016)

If the course was the other way round, I think it would be another solo from Cummings.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I'd not seen the footage of Froome riding straight into that poor spectator before.



I thought it was George Bennett that rode into the spectator, or is this another incident?


----------



## coffeejo (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I thought it was George Bennett that rode into the spectator, or is this another incident?


They did a feature on Froome's early career on the rest day highlights show.


----------



## brommers (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I thought it was George Bennett that rode into the spectator, or is this another incident?


Yes that was the next day (I think) - he just sort of rode into him and knocked him over, whereas Froome struck out with either his fist or elbow, couldn't really tell.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yes that was the next day (I think) - he just sort of rode into him and knocked him over, whereas Froome struck out with either his fist or elbow, couldn't really tell.


I think that Kent Walton would have referred to it as a 'forearm smash'


----------



## Booyaa (12 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Yes that was the next day (I think) - he just sort of rode into him and knocked him over, whereas Froome struck out with either his fist or elbow, couldn't really tell.


I don't think that is what @coffeejo is referring too.


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2016)

Coffeejo means this one (11secs) Paper and clipboards everywhere.


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Coffeejo means this one (11secs) Paper and clipboards everywhere.



That's the one - and then, what was up with Rasmussen in the next clip? Too many drugs mean he cant stay on his bike?


----------



## Booyaa (12 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Coffeejo means this one (11secs) Paper and clipboards everywhere.




I've never seen that before, would be absolutely raging if some fool was wandering around the course like that.


----------



## ColinJ (12 Jul 2016)

Booyaa said:


> I've never seen that before, would be absolutely raging if some fool was wandering around the course like that.


It was the 2006 U-23 world TT championships at Salzburg and the young Froome was there representing Kenya. He got his place by hacking into the Kenyan cycling federation's email account and entering himself without their knowledge!


----------



## fimm (12 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> That's the one - and then, what was up with Rasmussen in the next clip? Too many drugs mean he cant stay on his bike?


If that was the one immediately after the Froome one, it looked to me as if he was just really exhausted - TTing is pretty brutal...


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Coffeejo means this one (11secs) Paper and clipboards everywhere.




Cheers Crax, had heard of but hadn't seen that one before.

I thought @coffeejo meant in this Tour, and thought I'd missed something relevant.


----------



## coffeejo (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Cheers Crax, had heard of but hadn't seen that one before.
> 
> I thought @coffeejo meant in this Tour, and thought I'd missed something relevant.


Oops, sorry!


----------



## Crackle (12 Jul 2016)

This break must be doomed. Either caught or falls apart later as no one wants to take Mathews and Sagan to the line.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> This break must be doomed. Either caught or falls apart later as no one wants to take Mathews and Sagan to the line.



Tour ticker says Sagan and Dumoulin (S) have sat up waiting for the rest of the break, and Katusha are chasing it.

Break at 3 minutes is Mikel Landa (Sky), Gorka Izagirre (Movistar), Vincenzo Nibali (Astana), Peter Sagan (Tinkoff), Samuel Dumoulin (AG2R-La Mondiale), Damiano Caruso and Greg Van Avermaet (BMC), Edvald Boasson Hagen and Stephen Cummings (Dimension Data), Tony Gallopin (Lotto-Soudal), Rui Costa (Lampre-Merida), Sylvain Chavanel (Direct Energie), Luke Durbridge, Daryl Impey and Michael Matthews (Orica-BikeExchange)


----------



## mjr (12 Jul 2016)

Cav back at the doctor's car but France 3 doesn't know why. They're asking his team (ha!). Stannard having a snack gets a "bon appetit". It's starting to rain. Race not really on in earnest yet, from the looks of it. France 3 still has the old Hotels.com adverts. And those rocking groundhogs remain freaky.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (12 Jul 2016)

EBH in the break. If I'd known he was actually going to start trying, I would have picked him for today, but he had accumulated exactly nul points since I tipped him for a serious challenge for Green this year.... grr.


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Tour ticker says Sagan and Dumoulin (S) have sat up waiting for the rest of the break, and Katusha are chasing it.
> 
> Break at 3 minutes is Mikel Landa (Sky), Gorka Izagirre (Movistar), Vincenzo Nibali (Astana), Peter Sagan (Tinkoff), Samuel Dumoulin (AG2R-La Mondiale), Damiano Caruso and Greg Van Avermaet (BMC), Edvald Boasson Hagen and Stephen Cummings (Dimension Data), Tony Gallopin (Lotto-Soudal), Rui Costa (Lampre-Merida), Sylvain Chavanel (Direct Energie), Luke Durbridge, Daryl Impey and Michael Matthews (Orica-BikeExchange)



That is a very strong break ... interesting.


----------



## brommers (12 Jul 2016)




----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

ITV4's subtitles have just told me 16 fat former wearers of the yellow jersey are in the break.


----------



## coffeejo (12 Jul 2016)

I think they'll need to get rid of the intermediate sprints if they ever want anyone else to win the points competition.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

WTF is Tommy gurning V doing leading the peloton chase?
Chavanel is in the break and says he really fancies himself for this stage


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

Touch and go if the break will stick now


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

BTW, I've changed the sheets, cleaned the bathroom, been for an mtb ride and made lunch...

...in case anyone thinks I'm a lazy good-for-nothing couch potato!


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

+


User said:


> Close up photos of bits of the bathroom and we can decide on a more informed basis.


It's as clean as Ianrauk's sprockets...
...and it's pissing down outside anyway.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

It is going to stick and Chavanel is only a poursuivant


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> BTW, I've changed the sheets, cleaned the bathroom, been for an mtb ride and made lunch...
> 
> ...in case anyone thinks I'm a lazy good-for-nothing couch potato!


More than I've done, I put away some laundry and did a few sewing jobs .. which can be done in the couch potato position. 
I am rooting for EBH in this group .. they are surely not going to get caught, 5 minutes at 20kms to go


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Cav back at the doctor's car but France 3 doesn't know why. They're asking his team (ha!). .



any news on Cav?


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> they are surely not going to get caught


not a chance


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Peloton aren't interested in catching them, it's just whether they faff about and the poursuivants do.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> any news on Cav?


He was having a piss and soon got back into the peloton


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> any news on Cav?



Cav's in the peloton.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Peloton aren't interested in catching them, it's just whether they faff about and the poursuivants do.


Someone will put an effort in on this last hill, non?


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> I am rooting for EBH in this group .. they are surely not going to get caught, 5 minutes at 20kms to go



I'd like to see Sagan get it, he's been working for it since about km zero.


----------



## philk56 (12 Jul 2016)

Strong group should be interesting finish.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Someone will put an effort in on this last hill, non?



Je n'sais pas. Sagan?


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Sagan needs to lose Matthews. Easier said than done though.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

4 or 5 decent sprinters here still


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Sagan needs to lose Matthews. Easier said than done though.


Did he work too hard on the hill?


----------



## suzeworld (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I'd like to see Sagan get it, he's been working for it since about km zero.


True, I would be happy with that too -- but I have a soft spot for Edvald cos I have seen him win in my home town in the Tour of Britain ...


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

WTF is Matthews doing


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

Matthews it was!


----------



## Booyaa (12 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> WTF is Matthews doing


Winning.


----------



## coffeejo (12 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> WTF is Matthews doing


Winning


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Nothing against Matthews, but that upsets my innate sense of fairness.


----------



## Booyaa (12 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Nothing against Matthews, but that upsets my innate sense of fairness.


Mine too, always annoys me that does. All in the tactics though but still annoying.


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

Booyaa said:


> Winning.





coffeejo said:


> Winning


 Yes true!
But why did he sprint at 1.3km!!!!


----------



## rich p (12 Jul 2016)

Another great day for Dimension Data


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Like the way Landa and Nibali roll in having a chat, as if they've just done a Sunday afternoon coffee ride.


----------



## HF2300 (12 Jul 2016)

Sagan second according to the TdF ticker, and wins the combativity prize


----------



## Beebo (12 Jul 2016)

sagan must hold the unenviable record for most second places in tdf.


----------



## brommers (12 Jul 2016)

I liked the fake lunge from the Trek boys as the peloton rolled across the line. First time I ever seen a giggle on a 'sprint' finish.


----------



## philk56 (12 Jul 2016)

That was inevitable in the end but would like to have seen Sagan get it after all that work.


----------



## mjr (12 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I think they'll need to get rid of the intermediate sprints if they ever want anyone else to win the points competition.


They'll more likely cut the points for the intermediate sprints. It used to be 6, 4 and 2, then ASO bumped it up to 20 for first (and more scoring places) to end something like twenty years of finish-line sprinters winning it and give all-rounders a chance. It seems to have gone a bit too far the other way now.



Beebo said:


> sagan must hold the unenviable record for most second places in tdf.


http://www.infostradasports.com/wp-...ing-Tour-de-France-Stage-16-20-July-20151.pdf was the situation after stage 16 last year where he took his sixteenth second place. This is his first second place since then, so he still needs another five to become the second Second Erik Zabel.


----------



## beastie (12 Jul 2016)

I think Sagan did another good ride. It would have required 3 Etixx riders in the break instead of Ulrika Bike Edge(copyright Ned) for anyone else to win today. 3 v 1. Sagans main problem is the appalling lack of team support in nearly every race for Tinkoff. If he had a domestique to drive the break and fetch his bidons etc he would win more. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sagan


----------



## Dogtrousers (12 Jul 2016)

Sagan on Twitter:

*Peter Sagan* ‏@petosagan  57m57 minutes ago
It was worth the energy today..Im wearing #greenjersey

 again and enjoying my well-known 2nd place. @tinkoff_team


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (13 Jul 2016)

I note that crosswinds are being mentioned in twitterland for today's stage. I do hope so, I like a good echelon.


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

Sky to attack today.


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Sky to attack today.


what makes you say that?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (13 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> sagan must hold the unenviable record for most second places in tdf.





mjray said:


> http://www.infostradasports.com/wp-...ing-Tour-de-France-Stage-16-20-July-20151.pdf was the situation after stage 16 last year where he took his sixteenth second place. This is his first second place since then, so he still needs another five to become the second Second Erik Zabel.



A bit before all of this, but were does 'The eternal second' Raymond Poulidor fit into this?

That said, he was at one of this year's presentation events, so still relevant.... Sort of.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> A bit before all of this, but were does 'The eternal second' Raymond Poulidor fit into this?



Poulidor was a GC rider, not a stage hunter. He finished the Tour as runner-up three times, but also in third place five times. His career was overshadowed first by Anquetil, then by Merckx.


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> what makes you say that?



It's a flair pundit. Just in case they do it I can look like I know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

I've already started thinking up rules for a special second placed competition. Points for coming second in stages, at sprint points, on hills and so on, for the honour of the beige jersey.


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> It's a flair pundit. Just in case they do it I can look like I know what I'm talking about.



I thought it might be related to the echelon potential previously mentioned ... they'd be happy if they could gap Quintana a bit more before Ventoux, though I doubt he'll ever be far from Froome's wheel today .. not going to make that mistake again?


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Poulidor was a GC rider, not a stage hunter. He finished the Tour as runner-up three times, but also in third place five times. His career was overshadowed first by Anquetil, then by Merckx.


Despite his nickname, Poulidor did win 7 stages of the Tour and a Vuelta overall. Zabel won 12 stages but what matters for this is he came second in 22.


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> I thought it might be related to the echelon potential previously mentioned ... they'd be happy if they could gap Quintana a bit more before Ventoux, though I doubt he'll ever be far from Froome's wheel today .. not going to make that mistake again?



Yeah it was related to the echelon post and i wouldn't be as surprised as Saturday if they did try something. In my view, Movistar's weakness is the ability to ride hard on the flat (relative to Sky).

Remember Contador and Saxo try it in the 2014 tour?


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've already started thinking up rules for a special second placed competition. Points for coming second in stages, at sprint points, on hills and so on, for the honour of the beige jersey.


Sounds like the tendency of the old combined classification. The jersey was far worse than beige.


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Yeah it was related to the echelon post and i wouldn't be as surprised as Saturday if they did try something. In my view, Movistar's weakness is the ability to ride hard on the flat (relative to Sky).
> 
> Remember Contador and Saxo try it in the 2014 tour?



Yeah
and their other weakness is not really being much of a support to Quintana in the mountains! 
tbh, I adore Quintana, and would love to see him in yellow in Paris ...


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've already started thinking up rules for a special second placed competition. Points for coming second in stages, at sprint points, on hills and so on, for the honour of the beige jersey.



I would say that it should be the Brown jersey for number 2s, but a certain French team already have 'those' shorts.



mjray said:


> Sounds like the tendency of the old combined classification. The jersey was far worse than beige.



What was it again?

Oh, right, the patchwork jersey:

http://www.topendsports.com/events/tour-de-france/jerseys.htm


----------



## Shadow (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Just in case they do it I can look like I know what I'm talking about


And if Sky do not attack, what will that make you look like?!!!

I think we have 2 options here:
1) Standard sprinters fare with Kittel, Cav, Le Coq (as I've just named him!), Mclay (?), maybe the Gorilla and others, with the GC boys happy to trundle along behind them; or
2) _*If *_the weather forecast is correct, then we could have some great echelon entertainment as Marmy stated hours ago upthread; most of the teams will want to be at the front for differing reasons, so splits could happen easily, especially those who are not awake e.g. Movistar on saturday, Katusha yesterday. But the road is not wide enough for everyone to ride at the front!


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

By way of a taster, here's 2011 stage 15 - same finish as today's stage:

View: https://youtu.be/x830Cv6qiPQ


And 2013 stage 6 - again, the same finish as today's stage:

View: https://vimeo.com/69710210


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

Thanks Smutch
Hope it's a proper sprint finish. Yesterday was boring, apart from last 10 minutes, but I understand that we need all types of stages and it was set up for the all-rounders and a breakaway and it delivered.


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> What was it again?
> 
> Oh, right, the patchwork jersey


Yes, marginally better than the Vuelta which used to make the combined classification leader wear the Irish national champion's jersey  http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/vuelta-a-espana-2005/stage-15/results/





Since 2006, it's been the white jersey, which in 2013 meant you had casual observers wondering why the over-40 Chris Horner was the best young rider  http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/vuelta-a-espana-2013/stage-14/results/


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

If you haven't seen it, here are the points allocation for each stage type:
*
Type* *1st* *2nd* *3rd* *4th* *5th* *6th* *7th* *8th* *9th* *10th* *11th* *12th* *13th* *14th* *15th*


 "flat" stage finish 50 30 20 18 16 14 12 10 8 7 6 5 4 3 2


 "hilly finish/medium mountain" stage finish 30 25 22 19 17 15 13 11 9 7 6 5 4 3 2


 "high mountain" stage finish 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1


 individual time trial 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
intermediate sprint 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

So plenty of points up for grabs today


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> If you haven't seen it, here are the points allocation for each stage type:
> *
> Type* *1st* *2nd* *3rd* *4th* *5th* *6th* *7th* *8th* *9th* *10th* *11th* *12th* *13th* *14th* *15th*
> 
> ...



Don't forget the intermediate sprint 20-17-15-13- 11-10-9-87-6-5-4-3-2-1


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't forget the intermediate sprint 20-17-15-13- 11-10-9-87-6-5-4-3-2-1


You've forgotten the intermediate sprint 20-17-15-13- 11-10-9-87-6-5-4-3-2-1.


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't forget the intermediate sprint 20-17-15-13- 11-10-9-87-6-5-4-3-2-1





No I didn't - look properly


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

Hmm. It would appear that


brommers said:


> No I didn't - look properly


Bah. You didn't make them prominent enough.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Poulidor ... finished the Tour as runner-up three times, but also in third place five times.



Worth noting that 'The Eternal Second' doesn't actually have the most second-place finishes - I can think of at least one rider who has more: Jan Ullrich. Although he did actually win the Tour on one occasion. And there's also the small matter of the historical status of Ullrich's results to take into account.

Also, on a hunch, I just looked up Joop Zoetemelk's results and it turns out he beats Ullrich, finishing second six times (to Merckx twice, to Hinault three times). But he also won it outright once. Can't think of anyone who might have finished second on more occasions.

Poulidor's real distinction is finishing second several times without actually winning it (nor ever wearing the yellow jersey).

Just to get vaguely back on topic, current form suggests Quintana is probably on his way to his third second place in as many attempts, which would be quite an achievement!


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2016)

Without looking, Rominger sticks in my memory as an eternal 2nd to Indurain. Off to Google now.


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2016)

Turns out my memory is wrong.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (13 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Turns out my memory is wrong.



Still, not bad for a dog in a crash helmet!


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

Good spot mjray! So 87 points for 8th position in the intermediate sprint - there should be an interesting jostle for positions.


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

There's a bush fire close to the route.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Yes true!
> But why did he sprint at 1.3km!!!!



I've watched this several times and still haven't seen Matthews sprinting at 1.3km. Wasn't Impey?


----------



## Shadow (13 Jul 2016)

From Le Tour:

_Alex Howes (Cannondale) crashes by himself. The strong wind is an explanation for the crashes.
_
Could have a nervous pleoton if the wind stays high &/or is gusting. And I made arrangements to go out this afternoon expecting a non-event stage.


(with mrs s to look at a.......shed!)
_
_


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> No I didn't - look properly


Sorry, my post was trying to be silly to @Dogtrousers


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Vichot's out the front so the crowds can see how beautiful he looks.


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Sorry, my post was trying to be silly to @Dogtrousers


I realised that so amended my reply - see p59


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

That crash looked brutal but I missed the details.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> That crash looked brutal but I missed the details.



George Bennett and Sebastien Reichenbach off the side of the road into the ditch, minor injuries only I think (edit - Madiot says all Reichenbach's left side is injured). Someone else came off in the middle of the road but they didn't say who.

I'm surprised no Sherlock Holmes fan has commented that Reichenbach Falls


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Stéphane Goubert predicting Ventoux might be an anticlimax due to headwinds.


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

There's talk of tomorrows stage finishing halfway up Mont Ventoux because of high winds.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I'm surprised no Sherlock Holmes fan has commented that Reichenbach Falls



We had this as a crossword clue in the cryptic thread back in April:
Where Moriarty dropped FDJ rider (11)


----------



## rich p (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I've watched this several times and still haven't seen Matthews sprinting at 1.3km. Wasn't Impey?


Hmmm, maybe the commentator got the name wrong and I wasn't paying full attention. Apols, if so! 
It was the section under the trees on a straight section.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> George Bennett and Sebastien Reichenbach off the side of the road into the ditch, minor injuries only I think (edit - Madiot says all Reichenbach's left side is injured). Someone else came off in the middle of the road but they didn't say who.
> 
> I'm surprised no Sherlock Holmes fan has commented that Reichenbach Falls


Oh, and I missed it  Every time I see Reichenbach on telly I want him to crash, just so I can say that.

Edit. Before I get told off. Of course I realise that rider safety is more important than pun-opportunities, and I don't _really _want him to crash.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Every time I see Reichenbach on telly I want him to crash.



You callous b'stard.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Oh, and I missed it  Every time I see Reichenbach on telly I want him to crash, just so I can say that.
> 
> Edit. Before I get told off. Of course I realise that rider safety is more important than pun-opportunities, and I don't _really _want him to crash.





HF2300 said:


> You callous b'stard.



Edit edit. I wasn't fast enough in editing.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, maybe the commentator got the name wrong and I wasn't paying full attention. Apols, if so!
> It was the section under the trees on a straight section.



All quiet at 1.3km. If it was a bit earlier it was Impey.


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

Ouch. Again.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> not going to make that mistake again?



You would have thought not!


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

Wasn't expecting to see Froome and Sagan race to the finish with 10kms to go!


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> You would have thought not!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Wasn't expecting to see Froome and Sagan race to the finish with 10kms to go!


He and GT are riding hard. 7km to keep it up for.


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> He and GT are riding hard. 7km to keep it up for.


The peleton have finally woken up.


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

Will Cav quit after that mechanical?


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2016)

This is another, wow, stage.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2016)

Down to 16" 2km out.


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

Sagan definitely earned that win.


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2016)

Only a few seconds in the end plus bonuses


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

Punching spectators, attacking on sprint stages... Froome starting to think he's Hinault? 

That was magnificent.


----------



## Booyaa (13 Jul 2016)

Glad Saggers got it today.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (13 Jul 2016)

For just a moment there I thought Sagan was trying to come in second again. Surprise ending and a half!


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Only a few seconds in the end



Massive psychological blow though - especially the day before Ventoux.


----------



## Twizit (13 Jul 2016)

Damn work meetings. Missed the ending and just catching up on live text commentary feeds. Sounds like a cracker. Looking forward to the highlights this evening.


----------



## psmiffy (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Massive psychological blow though - especially the day before Ventoux.



At what cost tho - and assuming of course that Ventoux is the full Monte


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

What was Cav's mechanical? A wheel change?


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Damn work meetings. Missed the ending and just catching up on live text commentary feeds. Sounds like a cracker. Looking forward to the highlights this evening.



Had a 3 o'clock telephone meeting that fortunately finished just in time for the last 15km.


----------



## coffeejo (13 Jul 2016)

G looks shattered. Actually, so do Froome and Sagan.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Punching spectators, attacking on sprint stages... Froome starting to think he's Hinault?
> 
> That was magnificent.



Yes, outstanding. What an attack by Sagan, and what opportunism by Froome. Sagan's got to get the combativity prize again, surely?

I thought Cav wasn't going to win today - too many people were saying he was for it to work out - but I thought it'd be a loss in a sprint, not a mechanical.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

I see Kittel wasn't in the top 15. Was he gapped before the end? I also see Yates was 15th. Was there a gap behind him or will they all be same time?


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> At what cost tho - and assuming of course that Ventoux is the full Monte



It's a fair question - I was wondering the same but Froome is so calculating and always rides by the numbers, you have to think he knew what he was doing. And it's not like Quintana was exactly coasting in behind.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> At what cost tho - and assuming of course that Ventoux is the full Monte



No cost, I'd have thought - can't imagine he'd have risked it if he thought it'd affect him significantly tomorrow. He must already be balancing output tomorrow vs. the TT on Friday, so just another factor.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> What was Cav's mechanical? A wheel change?



Very slow and calling for a bike, so more than just a wheel.


----------



## EnPassant (13 Jul 2016)

That was massive fun, had almost decided to relegate this stage to highlights. Flat, Sprint, Yawn. Who needs to see anything but the highlights and the last 500M?
Wrong. Glad I changed my mind. Yellow and Green sprinting from a late break? Heh.

Sagan, what a guy, it's lovely to see the man who constantly puts the work in getting the rewards, I know the tactics generally dictate that you let somebody else do the work and then use the energy saved to nick it on the line, but that's always rankled with me a bit even though one knows it's the intelligent way. It always feels like stealing to me.

Fabulous.

Edit to add, watching Cav's interview as I wrote. "Shoot happens" heh and "It's good for racing to see yellow and green go off the front". Kudos.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> What was Cav's mechanical? A wheel change?



@Dogtrousers don't know if you caught Cav's interview, but he said he caught his rear mech on someone else's wheel and wrecked it.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Punching spectators, attacking on sprint stages... Froome starting to think he's Hinault?



Like to hear what the Badger thought of that.


----------



## Booyaa (13 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Racing by numbers this is not.


Nope, and this is just improving my image of Sky, always been a bit too "dull" for my liking and riding to figures all the time with just the occasional sprint off the front, this feels to me more like the kind of racing I enjoy. Also making this tour much more exciting.


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> @Dogtrousers don't know if you caught Cav's interview, but he said he caught his rear mech on someone else's wheel and wrecked it.


No, I only have the tdf website and CC for news at the mo so thanks for that.

I see Yates has opened up a bit more of a gap for the white jersey.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I see Kittel wasn't in the top 15. Was he gapped before the end? I also see Yates was 15th. Was there a gap behind him or will they all be same time?



Kittel and Yates were both in the main group that came in at 6 seconds. 

Kittel's lead-out just didn't get organised enough to give him a chance - David Millar suggested they were letting other teams use up their riders to catch the break before making their move but they left it too late. Basically they cocked up their tactics. They should have got Keisse or Tony Martin on the front early and done some chasing themselves. It's the kind of situation where they could have done with Terpstra in the team.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I see Yates has opened up a bit more of a gap for the white jersey.



Barguil was in the same group with Yates. Kelderman was another 14 seconds behind and Meintjes lost over a minute. Alaphilippe cooked himself in the chase and came in 2.30 down. Yates is definitely looking the strongest of the white jersey contenders at the moment. He did well to stay near the front of the main group at the finish - Barguil was hanging on near the back.


----------



## gavroche (13 Jul 2016)

Due to high winds at the top of Mont Ventoux tomorrow, possibly over 100kms per hour, the finish will be at Chalet Renard which will favour Froome I suppose. Quintana may have to review his plans about attacking now .


----------



## Dogtrousers (13 Jul 2016)

Image from Inrng on Twitter


----------



## Crackle (13 Jul 2016)

It's still no easy day.


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> It's still no easy day.



Not with the wind as well - and I'm not sure how exposed the valley is. Echelons again?


----------



## HF2300 (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Sagan's got to get the combativity prize again, surely?



Vichot. There often seems to be a confusion between 'being an exciting, attacking rider' and 'sitting on the front of a break all day'.


----------



## raindog (13 Jul 2016)

They've just mentioned tomorrow's stage on this evening's weather forecast.
on the Ventoux 90kph winds, 5° and with the chill factor -4°


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Sky to attack today.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (13 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Due to high winds at the top of Mont Ventoux tomorrow, possibly over 100kms per hour, the finish will be at Chalet Renard which will favour Froome I suppose. Quintana may have to review his plans about attacking now .



Froome was doing his best to hide his glee when ITV were interviewing him and talking about the shortened stage


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> It's still no easy day.



It may actually mix things up. No one could have predicted it, even Sky.


----------



## fossyant (13 Jul 2016)

Impressed with Froome's game changes. He can hack it. Today also says why Sagan is in Green. Much that I love Cav, Sagan can hold it with the best. I think he will be a good challenger with the overall stage win leadership tally in the future. Cav is an all out sprinter, Saan can get over the hills, pop a wheely and still win.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Sky to attack today.





400bhp said:


>



Sorry to piss on your bonfire but credit where it's due, please! - it was Tinkoff who cranked up the pace with about 16km to go and ripped the peloton apart, then Sagan who attacked.

Sky were for once the team to profit from another team's strength.


----------



## EnPassant (13 Jul 2016)

> ="fossyant, post: 4364612, member: 557"]Impressed with Froome's game changes. He can hack it. Today also says why Sagan is in Green. Much that I love Cav, Sagan can hold it with the best. I think he will be a good challenger with the overall stage win leadership tally in the future. Cav is an all out sprinter, Saan can get over the hills, pop a wheely and still win.



I'm normally a diehard home team supporter (hardly unusual), and as such I support Cav massively in straight out sprints, always have done. However where I used to grumble and groan about Sagan taking the green via this despicable business of stealing 'sprinters' points from Cav at daft mid stage points where it's always going to be a breakaway in which no sprinter in his right mind wants to be*, the mans sheer hard work and irresistible joie de vivre interview style have 'turned' me and I now love to see him do well.
If Cav can't have green because of the way the points currently work, I'm more than happy for Mr Sagan to do so.

*please bear in mind as stated earlier, I'm no aficionado and this is just my half educated view.


----------



## smutchin (13 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Vichot. There often seems to be a confusion between 'being an exciting, attacking rider' and 'sitting on the front of a break all day'.



Alternatively, confusion between 'being an exciting, attacking rider' and 'being french'?


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Due to high winds at the top of Mont Ventoux tomorrow, possibly over 100kms per hour, the finish will be at Chalet Renard which will favour Froome I suppose. Quintana may have to review his plans about attacking now .


Noooooooo!


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


>


Smarty pants! 
and looks like was wrong about Quintana not making the same mistake twice! 

Without the last few km on Ventoux there is little hope for him now, I fear ....


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Smarty pants!
> and looks like was wrong about Quintana not making the same mistake twice!
> 
> Without the last few km on Ventoux there is little hope for him now, I fear ....



Oh, there's loads to play for yet. The shortened ventoux could actually really shake things up. Hard from the bottom which you never see.


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Oh, there's loads to play for yet. The shortened ventoux could actually really shake things up. Hard from the bottom which you never see.


I've done it myself! Was there when Lance and Wiggo were both riding it ... cant recall the year ... we got almost to Chalet Reynard before we pitched up -- great day, but the top was chaotic then, they were turning spectators back cos of the wind .. but the race went through ..
Got all of tomorrow's stage set tor ecord cos I am out all day and have to see it all, I have cycled the roads so many times on tomorrow's route .. see my icon is Le Geant in the background!


----------



## Shadow (13 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> The shortened ventoux could actually really shake things up


Please elucidate. I do not see how this does anything but help the Dawg and his team. Much easier to control just going to Reynard. 

Do we know which direction the wind is forecast to be blowing tomorrow? Have to say am a little disappointed about the truncated route.


----------



## Crandoggler (13 Jul 2016)

I think Froome will absolutely beast up it and try to gain more time. I hope he does, anyway.


----------



## philk56 (13 Jul 2016)

Gotta love Peter Sagan  https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/753329635413336064


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

Hats off to Froome, he was attentive when he needed to be and Quintana took his eye off the ball despite he'd been tagging along in the right place all day - when it really mattered he missed the vital move. Strategically Froome played an ace today. And so did Sagan. Really happy for him, great image on the finish line ...


----------



## suzeworld (13 Jul 2016)

Just watched Highlights .. Imlach's comment on the Tinkoff team owner's strutting was priceless: "With no reflected glory next year he'll be doing this pantomime in front of his bedroom mirror"  Very funny after the ludicrous selfy-video of him in the shower they'd treated us to earlier in the show!


----------



## Oldfentiger (13 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Hats off to Froome, he was attentive when he needed to be and Quintana took his eye off the ball despite he'd been tagging along in the right place all day - when it really mattered he missed the vital move. Strategically Froome played an ace today. And so did Sagan. Really happy for him, great image on the finish line ...


And kudos to Gee too.
Busted his balls to get on the back of the front three, then contributed to staying away from the chasers.


----------



## psmiffy (13 Jul 2016)

I think tomorrow will be very interesting










Essentially crosswinds till they get to the mountains then predominantly headwinds


----------



## huwsparky (13 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> I think tomorrow will be very interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In what way? It will suit sky having a headwind at the end as they have the strongest team, same can also be said about crosswinds. Also it will make it a lot more difficult for Quintana to attack off the front. Weather conditions to me look to be nullifying the race in sky's favour.

Cross winds can cause carnage though but I'd be surprised if sky got caught out if I'm honest.

No doubt Quintana will have to try something but I think he'll need Froome to have a seriously bad day to be affective.


----------



## 400bhp (13 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> Please elucidate. I do not see how this does anything but help the Dawg and his team. Much easier to control just going to Reynard.
> 
> Do we know which direction the wind is forecast to be blowing tomorrow? Have to say am a little disappointed about the truncated route.



Summit finishes on HC climbs suit a very small minority of riders. They are about one hour climbs and therefore ssentially for those with the highest FTP/Kg. Both Quintana and Froome sit at the top in thic category. So, what you have is Sky sitting there at the bottom controlling it. They know no one can ride away from them. It's just maths. All the teams know it which is why you don't have GC riders going from the bottom of climbs, and when they do they get dragged back. Therefore the mind games play both ways. You get a stand off, until the point on the climb when it's about 10 or 20 minute efforts (or less) rather than one hour efforts.

What you now have is a shorter climb. It's not FTP any more, it's quite a bit less. There is more of a chance of the riders who are good at shorter efforts will suddenly believe they have a chance. Essentially, the top 8 I would say (down to Valverde). Therefore, Sky should find it difficult to control as we should see attacks from the foot of the climb.

One particular rider who is exceptional at this is Valverde. Probably the best in the world at the shorter efforts. This isn't short but it's getting that way.

Watch Mollema, he may well surprise tomorrow. He's the dark horse here in my view.


----------



## brommers (13 Jul 2016)

If it's a shortened stage tomorrow (has that been confirmed?), why should Froome be so pleased? Twice he has beaten Quintana on Ventoux and a similar attack last year - what makes people think this year would be any different, given Froome's current strength?


----------



## mjr (13 Jul 2016)

Yes, confirmed on official Twitter account at http://pic.twitter.com/BcSweLJ5eD - they would already be setting up the finish, as I understand it.


----------



## rich p (14 Jul 2016)

Blimey, Movistar whingeing like Roger Lefevre...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/qui...-de-france-organisers-for-dangerous-stage-11/


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Blimey, Movistar whingeing like Roger Lefevre...
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/qui...-de-france-organisers-for-dangerous-stage-11/



It's rather pathetic and hypocritical. He's blaming the organisers for what was a pretty a normal Tour stage and the wind and saying that they don't care about rider safety, and at the same time, he's unhappy that they've cut the top off the Ventoux... because of the wind and rider safety.


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> It's rather pathetic and hypocritical. He's blaming the organisers for what was a pretty a normal Tour stage and the wind and saying that they don't care about rider safety, and at the same time, he's unhappy that* they've cut the top off the Ventoux*... because of the wind and rider safety.



Now THAT is a big chainsaw.

More seriously. Absolutely. Methinks they doth protest too much and then shoot themselves in the foot with an irony cannon.


----------



## philk56 (14 Jul 2016)

I only saw the highlights. There did seem to be a few crashes but were any of them caused by the wind? Any other teams complaining? Seems to me that it's Movistar who don't have a plan B. That's the second time they've let Froome slip away without being able to respond. And the same happened last year. 

Just hope he hasn't expended too much energy for today's stage.


----------



## Dave Davenport (14 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Blimey, Movistar whingeing like Roger Lefevre...
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/qui...-de-france-organisers-for-dangerous-stage-11/


Yep, saw that. When they start whining like that you know they're rattled.


----------



## T4tomo (14 Jul 2016)

The forecast I saw was 45mph winds at sea level, so no question cutting the top off is the right thing to do. Wind shouldn't be a factor on the climb, they are in the forest and the wind is coming from opposite side of the hill, but it will make it interesting before they get there.
Despite it being shortened, what is left is still a tougher climb than Alpe D'Huez.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

Movistar playing mind games....


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Just looking at the GC, am I imagining it or are the time gaps smaller than usual? Froome as a 28s lead but then it's just a minute covering 2nd to 10th place. Seems to be a fair reflection of the way the race is going though - only Froome seems genuinely interested in the GC so far, everyone else is being very cagey (although Yates was desperately unlucky to have his attack thwarted by the flame rouge).

I expect the gaps will be bigger after today's stage though, shortened or not.

Also, only six abandonnés so far. That's definitely unusually low. And the first one wasn't until stage 8. (Amazing that both Morkov and Contador kept going as long as they did.)


----------



## fimm (14 Jul 2016)

Well I am glad I didn't follow that online and waited for the highlights!
I think Froome/Sky are showing Quintana a lot of respect, nibbling off seconds here and there; they know what he is capable of on the big climbs. This isn't over yet.
(They showed a clip of a sportive going up Ventoux in high winds on the ITV highlights... everyone was walking. Also as wassisname, Prudhomme? said, it isn't just the riders, it is all the gubbins they have at the finish. Collapsing 1km to go kites would be the least of it...)


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Just looking at the GC, am I imagining it or are the time gaps smaller than usual? Froome as a 28s lead but then it's just a minute covering 2nd to 10th place. Seems to be a fair reflection of the way the race is going though - only Froome seems genuinely interested in the GC so far, everyone else is being very cagey (although Yates was desperately unlucky to have his attack thwarted by the flame rouge).
> 
> I expect the gaps will be bigger after today's stage though, shortened or not.
> 
> Also, only six abandonnés so far. That's definitely unusually low. And the first one wasn't until stage 8. (Amazing that both Morkov and Contador kept going as long as they did.)


Nothing about this Tour fits with what we've come to expect. Loving it.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

fimm said:


> (They showed a clip of a sportive going up Ventoux in high winds on the ITV highlights... everyone was walking.



View: https://youtu.be/rPwAIo0fseM


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> View: https://youtu.be/rPwAIo0fseM



Ok, this is from some sci-fi series isn't it? the chap in blue @1:04 is out of phase isn't he? 

But blimey, that's a bit draughty indeed.


----------



## Globalti (14 Jul 2016)

Pussies. That looks like a normal day here in Lancashire.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Just looking at the GC, am I imagining it or are the time gaps smaller than usual? Froome as a 28s lead but then it's just a minute covering 2nd to 10th place. Seems to be a fair reflection of the way the race is going though - only Froome seems genuinely interested in the GC so far, everyone else is being very cagey (although Yates was desperately unlucky to have his attack thwarted by the flame rouge).
> 
> I expect the gaps will be bigger after today's stage though, shortened or not.



Yes, you're absolutely right. Last year after stage 11.

http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2015/us/stage-11/classifications.html

This race is wide open.


----------



## huwsparky (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> at should Froome be so pleased?



Because it's less realistic milage where any of the GC contenders can take time out of him.


400bhp said:


> Yes, you're absolutely right. Last year after stage 11.
> 
> 
> http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2015/us/stage-11/classifications.html
> ...


Is there only 2 summit finishes left though?


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Alternatively, confusion between 'being an exciting, attacking rider' and 'being french'?



You cynic. I'm sure there's absolutely no suggestion at all that they might be throwing the French consolation prizes to make up for public disappointment at the lack of serious French competition.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

huwsparky said:


> Because it's less realistic milage where any of the GC contenders can take time out of him.
> 
> Is there only 2 summit finishes left though?



Yes, I believe so. I think Quintana's big attack was focussed on the penultimate climb on Sunday's stage, but we will see.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

huwsparky said:


> Is there only 2 summit finishes left though?



Yes, only two summit finishes, but stage 20 finishes with the terrifyingly fast descent from the Joux Plane to Morzine, which could be very interesting if the race is still close by then - Nairo attacked on that descent on the 2012 Dauphiné and won the stage by 16 seconds...


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2016)

I have today's stage recorded, can't wait to watch once home - luckily I'm cycling home into what seems like a Block headwind, so I will be unable to have the result spoiled by Twitter, and the wind will give me an idea of what they are facing...


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

huwsparky said:


> Is there only 2 summit finishes left though?



4 mountain stages though.


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2016)

re: downhill finishes, what's happened to Bardet? Surely these were designed for a rider such as he to make the most of the downhill


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yes, only two summit finishes, but stage 20 finishes with the terrifyingly fast descent from the Joux Plane to Morzine, which could be very interesting if the race is still close by then - Nairo attacked on that descent on the 2012 Dauphiné and won the stage by 16 seconds...


He only needs to double that to beat Froome and his new found ability to tuck his elbows in on descents...


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

I think everyone is forgetting there's 2 TTs to come.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> He only needs to double that to beat Froome and his new found ability to tuck his elbows in on descents...



Yeah, Froome was riding for Wiggo at the 2012 Dauphiné, and hadn't yet learnt his mad descending skillz...

OTOH, despite his mistakes, Nairo is still a lot closer to Froome than he was at this point last year, without having properly shown his face. We haven't seen his true form yet and there's still a lot of racing to come (including, as @400bhp rightly says, two TTs - in which discipline Nairo is much improved this year, plus the second one is mostly uphill, which will suit him perfectly).


----------



## T4tomo (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> I think everyone is forgetting there's 2 TTs to come.


exactly Quintana will need to make up more than 36 seconds as he will surely lose some time to Froome in the TTs. there is a limit to what you can gain on a descent too - he needs a serious attack up hill. I don't think cutting 6k off the top changes much, any attack just needs to start earlier, the steeper bits are in the forest anyway, bar a little section very close to the top.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Not sure yesterday was the disaster for Quintana everyone's proclaiming. Realistically he lost a few seconds, in a situation that wasn't best suited to his strengths, from a bit of opportunism. It's still all very close and it takes nothing to turn a few seconds round given what's still to come and where Quintana's strengths lie.

The bigger issue seems to me not that Quintana wasn't on Froome's wheel, but that Movistar seemed to be dotted about in ones and twos all over the place. Can't help feeling it might be more the impression of another missed chance, Movistar's apparent inability to pull as a team and Valverde's uncertain loyalties that are causing the gripes from them.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> exactly Quintana will need to make up more than 36 seconds as he will surely lose some time to Froome in the TTs.



That's less certain than in previous years. Nairo matched Froome's time in the TT at Romandie in April, although that's not an especially useful indication of what to expect tomorrow, since it was less than half the distance and neither rider was at anything like their peak form at the time. However, what is clear is that Nairo has been working on his TT skillz in much the same way that Froome has been working on his descending. And on top of that, Movistar have the fastest TT bikes and skinsuits.

OTOH, the kind of form Froome is in, he'll probably smash it out of the park tomorrow.

We'll see!


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> exactly Quintana will need to make up more than 36 seconds as he will surely lose some time to Froome in the TTs.



I'm not so sure. Quintana has improved his TTs a lot this year and given one of them on the Tour is just uphill I don't think it's a given that Froome will gain loads of time. Suspect that's why Sky have been pinching seconds wherever they can.

Edit: Smutchin beat me to it - fairly similar points!


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

Quintana also won the ITT at the Route de Sud recently.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> I think everyone is forgetting there's 2 TTs to come.



Not sure they're the obvious deciders they might once have been, for reasons @smutchin outlines above and others.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Not sure yesterday was the disaster for Quintana everyone's proclaiming. Realistically he lost a few seconds, in a situation that wasn't best suited to his strengths, from a bit of opportunism.



Absolutely. The whingeing about safety shows that it definitely rattled them, but I'll repeat myself: we haven't seen Nairo's true form yet and the overall time gap is small.



brommers said:


> Quintana also won the ITT at the Route de Sud recently.



Yes but look who he was riding against... Possibly a more useful race to look at is the TT at last year's Vuelta (similar distance and terrain to tomorrow's course), where he finished 1.33 behind Dumoulin but just two seconds behind Kiryienka.


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

Like great sportsmen in any sport, they all work hard on their weaker areas.


----------



## Shadow (14 Jul 2016)

Even though we have a shortened stage stage today, for those of you who have not been there, this little clip here from the beeb is quite good.
This was obviously filmed in good climatic conditions, it gives no sense of what is like when it is scorching, wet, or windy!


----------



## Globalti (14 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I have today's stage recorded, can't wait to watch once home - luckily I'm cycling home into what seems like a Block headwind, so I will be unable to have the result spoiled by Twitter, and the wind will give me an idea of what they are facing...



What the hell is this "block headwind" that cyclists keep talking about? 

Is "block headwind" to "breeze" as "flu" is to "a cold"?


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

I always thought it was a pretty much continuous headwind as opposed to just intermittent gusts in yer face. Just another of those obscure cycling turns of phrase.


----------



## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Globalti said:


> What the hell is this "block headwind" that cyclists keep talking about?



I don't know for sure but I think it means a wind that's blowing at a (mostly) consistent speed rather than in gusts.

(edit: cross-posted with @HF2300 )


----------



## Hont (14 Jul 2016)

17 minute gap for the break atm. 4 (?) Frenchmen in the break. Normally that's your Bastille day prediction sorted, but who knows this year. Eleven stages in, who would have thought that the two most instinctive and unexpected GC attacks would come from Chris Froome and that a flat stage into Montpelier would result in bigger GC time gaps than the first summit finish.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Breakaway: Vanmarcke, Lindemann, Clement, Pauwels, Teklehaimanot, Greipel (!), de Gendt, Coquard, Chavanel, Keisse, Navarro, Lemoine, Sorensen.

Peloton at 17:30


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Breakaway: Vanmarcke, Lindemann, Clement, Pauwels, Teklehaimanot, Greipel (!), de Gendt, Coquard, Chavanel, Keisse, Navarro, Lemoine, Sorensen.
> 
> Peloton at 17:30


I think best-placed of that lot is Navarro at 33 minutes back, so GC teams need not panic yet.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

itv4 is on air now. Boardman holding his bike up top of Ventoux like it was a sheet in the wind. Not really rideable through those bends.


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

I don't agree with cutting the stage short.
The elements are a part of what you race against; stronger winds have been raced in previously.
I recall a race sometime ago where the riders didn't want to carry on because it was raining too hard.
It's getting silly IMHO.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Gary cuts to commercial by saying that the host broadcaster hasn't started live pictures yet. I switch to France 3 live pictures during the break. Fib or are France TV not supplying other broadcasters promptly?


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> I don't agree with cutting the stage short.
> The elements are a part of what you race against.



That's true, but there comes a point where it becomes unnecessarily dangerous to race or so unrideable the racing becomes meaningless. There's also the fact that the media village, official village, finish line, safety fencing, etc etc etc would all have to have been put up and survive in potentially extremely high winds, the helicopters - including medical helicopters - would not have been able to fly, and so on.

Sensible decision IMHO.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> I don't agree with cutting the stage short.
> The elements are a part of what you race against; stronger winds have been raced in previously.
> I recall a race sometime ago where the riders didn't want to carry on because it was raining too hard.
> It's getting silly IMHO.


You are Henri Desgrange and I claim my £5 

What's your opinion on these "derailleur" things?


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Chase group of Gautier Rosa Voss Slagter and someone at about 5m40 back.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That's true, but there comes a point where it becomes unnecessarily dangerous to race or so unrideable the racing becomes meaningless. There's also the fact that the media village, official village, finish line, safety fencing, etc etc etc would all have to have been put up and survive in potentially extremely high winds, the helicopters - including medical helicopters - would not have been able to fly, and so on.
> 
> Sensible decision IMHO.



It's not just the riders it's the specators, both from their own safety but also for the riders safety. It's likely they would be bouncing off the riders.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

They obviously left Bryan Coquard out in that wind lastnight


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> It's not just the riders it's the specators, both from their own safety but also for the riders safety. It's likely they would be bouncing off the riders.



Assuming the riders would stay up long enough to be bounced off.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Ettixx and Sky turning the gas up. That'll upset Movistar again.


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

The peloton is beginning to break up, so could still be interesting before the climb.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> (edit: cross-posted with @HF2300 )



San fairy ann


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> The peloton is beginning to break up, so could still be interesting before the climb.



Beginning? It's shredded.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Chase group of Gautier Rosa Voss Slagter and someone at about 5m40 back.


Preidler


----------



## T4tomo (14 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> I don't agree with cutting the stage short.
> The elements are a part of what you race against; stronger winds have been raced in previously.
> I recall a race sometime ago where the riders didn't want to carry on because it was raining too hard.
> It's getting silly IMHO.


Rain I'll give you, but in a wind where it is physically impossible to ride and all barriers and infrastructure would be blown away?? Get real, it was the only sensible decision. Watch till highlights tonight, there will be some footage from further up on the exposed bit and readings from the weather station on the speed of the gusts.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

4 Movistar vs 7 Sky in the yellow jersey group...


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Intermediate sprint given to Keisse with Greipel 3rd, Coquard 4th


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Not often you see Greipel leading a breakaway up a categorised climb on a mountain stage...


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Ouch. Chute de Gerrans, Stannard. That looked nasty, hope they're OK.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Oof! Gerrans loses grip on the descent and Stannard smacks into him


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

1 big peloton now


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> 1 big peloton now


Awww...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ckXdWzINTw


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> 1 big peloton now



According to the tracker there's another big group 3 minutes down, including Pinot.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Aru now on his 4th bike of the day


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Motor must keep breaking.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Motor must keep breaking.


The thought crossed my mind


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Interesting analysis of Quintana by Boulting. Short version: don't write him off.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Motor must keep breaking.



New batteries


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Greipel's off!


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Boulting looking at tree being blown about and talking about how strong the wind is.

...errr, Ned, isn't that because of the helicopter just above it?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Greipel attacks on a mountain, something smells fishy


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Greipel's off!



Gorillaman for the stage win then? That'd be just brilliant.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Gorillaman for the stage win then? That'd be just brilliant.


Did someone tell him Ventoux had been curtailed back to Bedoin?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Greipel's off!


Greipel's off.....the back!


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Did someone tell him Ventoux had been curtailed back to Bedoin?



I can just picture them all in the hotel lastnight - 'Let's wind up Andre...'


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

This would be some KoM...


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

_15:13
GREIPEL ALONE!
André Greipel goes solo with 14km to go. 10 seconds lead._

The toothless wonder is going to solo all the way up Ventoux. He'll ignore the lower finish line and just blast on to the top.


_15:21
IT'S OVER FOR GREIPEL
Greipel has been reeled in. He's getting dropped by his former breakaway companions. Iljo Keisse also in difficulty.
_
Bugger

Edit. Ah. I see you've already discussed that.


----------



## Phaeton (14 Jul 2016)

Attack, Attack, Attack


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

All kicking off now. Just softening up.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Quintana attacks, Sky mountain train reels him back in, but Dan Martin's out the back - Quintana is only 4 seconds behind him on GC, so one step closer.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Reichenbach falls back...

(groan)


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Reichenbach falls back...
> 
> (groan)


I'll get your coat.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Reichenbach falls back...
> 
> (groan)


An elementary observation.


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

There's a twat needs running over, he's holding a flare which serves as both the main reason to run him over and a handy targeting aid.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I'll get your coat.



Thanks, most kind.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

I know you can never tell with Froome, but he doesn't look comfortable.

Great to say Yates staying there


----------



## SWSteve (14 Jul 2016)

I'm liking the face that Greipel being the eternal Gummy Bear has caught on.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

I was just about to write that Froome looked raring to go and......


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I know you can never tell with Froome, but he doesn't look comfortable.


You were saying?!


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

He's not dropping them though


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Froome!!!


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Tell a lie, there goes Quintana


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Quintana dropped!!


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> He's not dropping them though


Think he is....

Edit - too slow each time!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Just shows what I know 

Froome and Porte going away from them all

GO ON FROOME!


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Quintana dropped again. And again.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Porte doing domestique duties for Froome again??


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Mollema, who is he and what have they done with the real Mollema?


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Great finish from De Gendt


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Mollema, who is he and what have they done with the real Mollema?


Froome back at the front.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Must get back to work............


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Must get back to work............


Whilst this is going on? Nah


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

shoot, what's happening?


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

I'm watching with no sound on - anyone know the Froome - Quintana gap???


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Froome group hit a bike?, Porte out


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> I'm watching with no sound on - anyone know the Froome - Quintana gap???


Froome is running!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Froome running without a bike!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

Its a marathon?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

This is mental


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Porte just cycled past him.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

What a farce this is


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

What the hell!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

They must neutralise it like they did when Yates hit the kite


----------



## Nomadski (14 Jul 2016)

What on earth is happening? Did they turn the TDF into an uphill marathon?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

What on earth!!!!!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

Froome having trouble with his new bike


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Froome finally on a proper bike


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Think we're about to see angry Froome.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

What the stinky poo is going on?
_15:57
FROOME RUNS TO THE FINISH!
No more bike for Froome, he runs!!!_


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Surely they will give Porte and Froome the same time as t'other bloke that was with them?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

They rode into the back of a motorbike!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Motorbike brake tested Porte


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> What the stinky poo is going on?
> _15:57
> FROOME RUNS TO THE FINISH!
> No more bike for Froome, he runs!!!_


Motorbike braked, porte rode into the back. His and Froome's bikes trashed.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

Spectator makes moto brake?


----------



## Milkfloat (14 Jul 2016)

This is going to be awkward to sort out.


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

I'm putting a fiver on it being one of the numpty spectators at the root of it. M/c has to slow due to idiot, no choice.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

That was extraordinary. Difficult to see any other reason for the bike stopping like that other than crowds. Side effect of the stage being shortened - all the crowds from up the top coming further down the mountain?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Motorbike stopped that quickly it lifted its rear wheel


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Not the first time this year the motor bikes have caused an issue. 

Not the first time this year the spectators have caused an issue. 

Be interesting to see what action the riders take. Who is their rep this year?


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Twitter #tdf (I've got www.showtweets.com in a small pinned window) is currently retweeting WTF again and again with the vid from the moto... I'll be amazed if this result isn't corrected.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

Well, that was different!


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Well I guess I got to see someone on a yellow bike..
Poor Froome, I assume the Prudholme will be a busy man.


----------



## philk56 (14 Jul 2016)

I'm sure it must have been caused by stupid spectator. They were still running alongside after the event.


----------



## summerdays (14 Jul 2016)

I must admit that I was at the point of shouting at the TV

How long would it be before they would make any announcement? If there is going to be one.


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> I'm sure it must have been caused by stupid spectator. *They were still running alongside after the event.*


To be fair, they wouldn't have known what happened.


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

If the result stands Yates is in yellow


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)




----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Not the first time this year the motor bikes have caused an issue.
> 
> Not the first time this year the spectators have caused an issue.
> 
> Be interesting to see what action the riders take. Who is their rep this year?


Maybe they'll only race where there are no cameras and no spectators?


----------



## gavroche (14 Jul 2016)

What a shamble!! Something must be done about controlling the crowd and also reducing the number of motorbikes. Froome and Porte must be fuming and deservedly so. Don't know what the organisation of the Tour is going to do but they must revise the time gaps surely.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2016)

I suspect we'll see Froome and Porte awarded the same time as Moellema. Sorry for Yates!


----------



## Bollo (14 Jul 2016)

Too many so called fans more bothered about getting their fecking hashtags on the gogglebox rather than actually experiencing the race. English king from 1016, the lot of 'em.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Nice bit of skill from Froome, putting the broken bike up against a TV moto and giving him a few seconds respite before another TV camera caught up with him.

Provisional GC puts 1st Yates, Mollema +9s, Quintana +14s.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

I'll likely get shot down for this but what a great spectacle. There's much to be said for Mario Kart Pro Cycling.


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I suspect we'll see Froome and Porte awarded the same time as Moellema. Sorry for Yates!



Hmmmmmmm I disagree.

Stuff happens.


----------



## themosquitoking (14 Jul 2016)

That was amazing, no one pundited that.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

The problem with the Tour de France is that it's so boring. The ultimate winner takes yellow early and all the racing is really conservative. Just a procession of skinny blokes going up hills.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> Too many so called fans more bothered about getting their fecking hashtags on the gogglebox rather than actually experiencing the race. English king from 1016, the lot of 'em.


There's already tweets blaming Pokemon Go for it


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Watch Mollema, he may well surprise tomorrow. He's the dark horse here in my view.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Hmmmmmmm I disagree.
> 
> Stuff happens.



There provision for this would be if the Commissaires rule it to be caused by the Moto. But that's only under certain circumstances, and I'm not sure of the details. I guess we'll find out soon.


----------



## philk56 (14 Jul 2016)

I'm not sure if they will change the times?


----------



## cd365 (14 Jul 2016)

It will be disgraceful if they don't sort it.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


>


Was it Mollema who fired the turtle?


----------



## Starchivore (14 Jul 2016)

Wow


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

Boardman really does come across as a cool head about these things. Balance the safety and racing against the atmosphere created by the crowds. No "ban them all now" polemic from him.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

I like CB but that is easier said than done.


----------



## Salad Dodger (14 Jul 2016)

What a shambles. It will be disgraceful if times are allowed to stand without adjustment......


----------



## gavroche (14 Jul 2016)

I am full of admiration for Chris Froome. He is of the same mould as Merkcx, Anquetil, Hinault, as great champions. He is clever, intelligent and an opportunist. He can read the race and act accordingly. I think he has already won this tour and will win more. Quintana on the other hand lacks some of those qualities. He is too conservative and not as strong as we might think. He will never win the Tour.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

I don't think the nobbers running alongside helped, and I'll bet one of them got in front of the moto, but really it was ludicrously crowded - at points there was hardly room for anyone to cycle let alone pass or attack. Boardman's right though - a knee jerk reaction isn't what's needed to a complex problem.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

If they don't make any adjustment can you imagine how fired up Froome is going to be for the TT tomorrow...


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

In 1975, a spectator punched Merckx during the mountain TT and his time was left standing... hopefully we've moved on from that and aren't going to reward fan interventions now.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I don't think the nobbers running alongside helped, and I'll bet one of them got in front of the moto, but really it was ludicrously crowded - at points there was hardly room for anyone to cycle let alone pass or attack.


Porte is confirming in interview that the moto had nowhere to go.


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2016)

We don't yet know why the moto stopped, whether it was to avoid a fan or because of a mechanical fault. I've got a bad feeling about whether they adjust the times or not.

EDIT: Posted before mrjay confirmed the bike had to stop because fans were in the way.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Yates in yellow as things stand, and the results apparently final...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

If they don't adjust the times then it is open season for fans to stop riders


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> We don't yet know why the moto stopped, whether it was to avoid a fan or because of a mechanical fault. I've got a bad feeling about whether they adjust the times or not.



Don't think that was a mechanical fault.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

Yates - yellow

Mollema 2nd

Quintana 3rd

Bardet 4th

Valverde 5th

Froome 6th

TvG 7th


etc etc


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

No yellow jersey presentation so they must be discussing changing the times


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

Trouble with today was that it was 6Km shorter than what it would have been, but with the same amount of 'fans'


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Yay for Yates. 

I don't doubt Froome will make up the time. We've had weird downhilling, sprinting, and running. Sky surely have Professor Pat pending in the ranks for something else interesting.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Yates won't want to be in Yellow for that reason, I wouldn't be surprised to see a protest from some of other the riders, even those whom this benefits.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

First a wayward inflatable, a punch, spectators being run over and now this - This is an interesting race!!


----------



## cd365 (14 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> If they don't adjust the times then it is open season for fans to stop riders


+1 For this.

They should look at changing the way the fans can get so near to the riders on these stages, it's just crazy


----------



## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Trouble with today was that it was 6Km shorter than what it would have been, but with the same amount of 'fans'



This^^^


----------



## oldfatfool (14 Jul 2016)

If the result stands Yates should tell them to stuff the jersey were the sun doesn't shine, to accept yellow in those circs imo would be a blight on his career.


----------



## oldfatfool (14 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> This^^^


 Nah, same every year on stages like Ventoux, the race effectively ends 2k + from the summit as the crowds make it impossible for a trailing rider to move over to attack.


----------



## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

I'll put a further fiver on the spectator that I've already got a fiver on for being the cause of the m/c slamming on the anchors sporting a mankini or gorilla costume. Harsh maybe, but in my view these people are more interested in themselves than cycling.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Trouble with today was that it was 6Km shorter than what it would have been, but with the same amount of 'fans'


This is basically it. We don't know that it was a mankini clad loon taking selfies. It could have just been weight of numbers.


----------



## Globalti (14 Jul 2016)

Maybe the Angel is back and the moto rider got distracted?


----------



## gavroche (14 Jul 2016)

If it stays as it is, the riders have every right to refuse riding tomorrow.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

ITV, Eurosport and RAI have said goodbye. I've put France 2's audio onto my office radio and I'll try to keep an ear out until I leave work but it's been half an hour and still no yellow jersey presentation. Sagan took quite a while to smile at the green jersey presentation while I was switching over but maybe that was just my imagination.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Boulting looking at tree being blown about and talking about how strong the wind is.
> 
> ...errr, Ned, isn't that because of the helicopter just above it?


I just saw the view behind the presenters in France TV's open-sided Velo Club set, near Mont Ventoux... those trees are really bending, no helicopters in sight.


----------



## rualexander (14 Jul 2016)

If they can't declare the finish as being the time of the motorbike/fans incident then they have to cancel the times of today's stage and have everyone on same times as yesterday.


----------



## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

Greipel has the sprinters bragging rights


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

oldfatfool said:


> If the result stands Yates should tell them to stuff the jersey were the sun doesn't shine, to accept yellow in those circs imo would be a blight on his career.


You're having a laugh


----------



## PhilDawson8270 (14 Jul 2016)

It's racing, it was an incident. Stuff happens, the result should stand.

Karma for punching a fan


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

It's not looking good for Froomey. Hope they do make an adjustment.
I can't accept that as being "just one of those things"


----------



## Flying_Monkey (14 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> No yellow jersey presentation so they must be discussing changing the times



That seems to be what's going on. GC results remain provisional too. Not final.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Team buses are leaving the finish. Froome reportedly warming down hidden away in a coach's mobile home (an RV I guess) and I think Yates is still there doing white jersey protocol.


----------



## oldfatfool (14 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> You're having a laugh


Not in the slightest, its like you riding round in team kit, at the end of the day it hasn't been earned.


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2016)

Froome's just tweeted that he's still in yellow.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Froome has tweeted he's still in yellow


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2016)

Great minds thinking alike?


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

From just tweeted ....still in yellow jersey


----------



## albion (14 Jul 2016)

Froome thinks so, so must be.

So much for the safety precautions of reducing the stage!


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

I think Cedric Vasseur(?) is explaining the jury decision but I'm not following him completely. Sounds like Froome and Porte may have been given Mollema's time?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Maybe Froome hasn't taken his jersey off from today yet


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Same time as Mollema, neutralised


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2016)

Yup. Froome still in yellow, Yates at 47 seconds back, Mollema 56.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/753618589031227392


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

Time to take an extended ride home and watch the highlights


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

oldfatfool said:


> Not in the slightest, its like *you* riding round in team kit, at the end of the day it hasn't been earned.


I don't* 

It would not have been a "blight on his career", that's just nonsense. Hyberbole?

edit - *actually I do...but I doubt anyone thinks I rode for Wiels, Quick-Step, or Francaise des Jeux, nor that I was Swiss Champion in 1955.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Dave B (in French) saying I think the jury, everyone, the organisation prefers to see fair play. It's fair ... it's sensible. ... It's necessary to stay calm, not react emotionally, stay calm. It was an accident. ... He keeps the jersey. Next Monday, he'll be entering the Paris Marathon. ... I saw the TV pictures live everyone else. ... In this situation, calm is important, to reflect ... I think it's a good decision. It's like the 3km rule. It exists in our sport for exceptional situations. It's fair play. (I didn't catch it all. He talks fast, even in French.)


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Tinkoff's bus is stuck in front of the podium!


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

Yates never even had time to do the zip up.


----------



## biking_fox (14 Jul 2016)

Porte wasn't watching. He wasn't going that fast and could have swerved (probably into the crowd).


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Crowd booing the decision as it's announced over the loudspeakers.


----------



## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2016)

Much as I want to see Froome win, and I think on balance the decision is probably the correct one a little bit of me feels uneasy about it.

Stuff happens...


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I don't
> 
> It would not have been a "blight on his career", that's just nonsense. Hyberbole?


Doesn't matter now but yes ... Its nonsense.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

Onwards. TT mayhem tomorrow


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

He's still running; run Froomey run.....


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Froome said "What a finale! Ventoux is full of surprises. The moto was blocked. All three of us met the moto and there was another moto behind that broke my bike, so I continued on foot." "I had no bike. I knew that the car with my other bike was minutes behind. Too far." "I'm very content with the jury decision. It was correct. Thanks to them. Thanks to the Tour organisation." (also in French, but he speaks slower and the interviewer asked more questions, which let me catch up)


----------



## psmiffy (14 Jul 2016)

seems like Froome has extended lead after decision


----------



## oldfatfool (14 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I don't
> 
> It would not have been a "blight on his career", that's just nonsense. Hyberbole?


IF Yates was awarded the Yellow Jersey and accepted it would be all the general public ever remembered about him, like all people remember Lance for is EPO


----------



## DCLane (14 Jul 2016)

Sensible decision - it looked crazy.

Hopefully this will prompt the organisers to do something.


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

oldfatfool said:


> IF Yates was awarded the Yellow Jersey and accepted it would be all the general public ever remembered about him, like all people remember Lance for is EPO


David Walsh agrees that Yates would not have wanted yellow in such circumstances. However, there is pretty much controversy every year. Froome fell the right side of this one.


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Much as I want to see Froome win, and I think on balance the decision is probably the correct one a little bit of me feels uneasy about it.
> 
> Stuff happens...


Much as I don't particularly want Froome to win, I think it was probably fair enough.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Feels like the only sensible result to me


----------



## StuAff (14 Jul 2016)

It was the right thing to do. Regardless of who was in yellow beforehand, they couldn't have allowed that chaos to have decided, or had a major impact on, the final result. If one of them had a mechanical, that was one thing- but that crash in that situation affected riders who would otherwise have made their way up the mountain without issue.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

oldfatfool said:


> IF Yates was awarded the Yellow Jersey and accepted it would be all the general public ever remembered about him, like all people remember Lance for is EPO


Nah, that's cos all Lance should be remembered for is being a dirty cheat.

It would have been a great pub quiz question in 2030: which British cyclist, who went on to win 5 Tours, 4 Giros, and 2 World Championships won his first yellow jersey due to a mental crowd/moto crash/rider running incident in 2016?


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Who won the combative prize?


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

oldfatfool said:


> IF Yates was awarded the Yellow Jersey and accepted it would be all the general public ever remembered about him, like all people remember Lance for is EPO


Nonsense.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

The crowd???

[in answer to Coffeejo]


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Who won the combative prize?


No idea but Froome went for the sprints jersey.


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Yates will be remembered for the Flamme Rouge


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> https://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/753618589031227392



Looks like a sensible decision but can't help feeling Porte's lost out somewhere there. I assume they gave him Mollema's time as well, and it's just a reflection of how much time he'd lost already?


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> No idea but Froome went for the sprints jersey.


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Looks like a sensible decision but can't help feeling Porte's lost out somewhere there. I assume they gave him Mollema's time as well, and it's just a reflection of how much time he'd lost already?


Yup.


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Mollema and Froome the big winners today, I bet Froome is feeling a little like he just got a big let off.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

Good point just made on the BBC live text commentary... whilst Froome and Porte have been given the time of Mollema, had the crash not happened then the three of them would have put more time into the others, as Mollema must have lost a deal of time getting back on his bike and past the crash. So whilst I still think it's the only fair result, although Froome extends his lead, he has still been impacted and it's not all upside on a plate for him.

... although I've no idea if the crash also held up those behind (Quintana etc) - but even if it did then I can't imagine they lost more than Froome, Porte and Mollema.


----------



## Twizit (14 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Mollema and Froome the big winners today, I bet Froome is feeling a little like he just got a big let off.


Not so sure - see my post above


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> ... I doubt anyone thinks ... that I was Swiss Champion in 1955.



Oh no! @Marmion say it ain't so!


----------



## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Let's not forget waht we saw today though. We know Quintana is not on form yet and Mollema and Porte are.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Good point just made on the BBC live text commentary... whilst Froome and Porte have been given the time of Mollema, had the crash not happened then the three of them would have put more time into the others, as Mollema must have lost a deal of time getting back on his bike and past the crash. So whilst I still think it's the only fair result, although Froome extends his lead, he has still been impacted and it's not all upside on a plate for him.
> 
> ... although I've no idea if the crash also held up those behind (Quintana etc) - but even if it did then I can't imagine they lost more than Froome, Porte and Mollema.



And they might have put time into each other, as you could suggest scenarios where any one of the three attacked the others; Porte particularly looked as though he might have gone. As with the Yates crash the other day, they've done the best they can in the circumstances.

Quintana et al. got past Froome OK, so presumably those behind them did as well.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Oh no! @Marmion say it ain't so!


I realise it's hard to believe, but I'm afraid I have been living a lie. All I can do is apologise to you all for my betrayal.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Let's not forget waht we saw today though. We know Quintana is not on form yet and Mollema and Porte are.



No, indeed - and Quintana didn't look at all convincing, Valverde almost looked stronger in places.

Hope Porte and Mollema aren't too badly injured, though they could always swap the real Mollema back again.


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

The official TdF app excels in understatement.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> I just saw the view behind the presenters in France TV's open-sided Velo Club set, near Mont Ventoux... those trees are really bending, no helicopters in sight.



They had an aerial shot of a tree thrashing around. Boulting pronounced on the strength of the wind, whereupon the helicopter shot widened to show another helicopter just moving away from above the tree.


----------



## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Its a marathon?



Duathlon


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Duathlon



Ah ok. They should introduce such a stage for future editions!!


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I realise it's hard to believe, but I'm afraid I have been living a lie. All I can do is apologise to you all for my betrayal.


In line with your spirit of truth and reconciliation, may I admit that I did not ride alongside Hinault and Lemond in the La Vie Claire team. I apologise to those whom I may have mislead.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They had an aerial shot of a tree thrashing around. Boutling pronounced on the strength of the wind, whereupon the helicopter shot widened to show another helicopter just moving away from above the tree.


Yes, you already said that. I replied to describe some trees near the commentary positions that were thrashing around even without helicopters.


----------



## Nomadski (14 Jul 2016)

Gotta catch em all.


----------



## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Nomadski said:


> Gotta catch em all.


@The Velvet Curtain


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> @The Velvet Curtain


His bike is clearly below the UCI weight limit. Disqualification must follow....


----------



## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

They are actually checking Froomes broken bike for a motor. Seriously!


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> They are actually checking Froomes broken bike for a motor. Seriously!


And why not? I expect he'll also have to submit to a dope test, also seriously.


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> There's already tweets blaming Pokemon Go for it





Nomadski said:


> Gotta catch em all.


 but well done on the photo editing!


----------



## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> They are actually checking Froomes broken bike for a motor. Seriously!


The following moto rider probably said Froome stalled it and that's why they collided! 

I also saw snide comments of "Froome doesn't have his 2013 bike this year" before the pile-up.


----------



## Nomadski (14 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> but well done on the photo editing!



Hah! In fairness I missed your post during my période de création.


----------



## crisscross (14 Jul 2016)

Personally I think Quintana got away with it today. He could have lost some serious time if the incident hadn't happened. 

Common sense prevailed with the decision otherwise we could see spectators become more important than the cyclists in dictating the times on the big climbs.


----------



## Seevio (14 Jul 2016)

I reckon this also answers the question of whether wheelsucking is ok on a busy road.


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## Nomadski (14 Jul 2016)

Some people on twitter saying Froome should be disqualified for not running with his bike....


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## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

Nomadski said:


> Some people on twitter saying Froome should be disqualified for not running with his bike....


 I guess the sun's always been well over the yard arm long enough somewhere...


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## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

He did start running with his broken bike but common sense prevailed.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Nomadski said:


> Some people on twitter saying Froome should be disqualified for not running with his bike....


Well, it did cross my mind too...  And when I texted my wife with what was happening she replied "is that allowed?"


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Mollema a bit disgruntled on Twitter "What's going on? Seems like everybody got time bonuses. I wonder what would have happened if I would have been the only one to go down..."
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaukeMollema/status/753639575734616064


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## oldroadman (14 Jul 2016)

Technically running without the bike would get penalised. Given the circumstances (utter shambles caused by hugely inadequate protection of the riders in their workplace by a very rich organiser) the right decisions were taken by the commissaires.
The close by runners and idiots with flags (often drunk) are a menace and add nothing, just showing their stupid egos and disrespect for the riders.
Perhaps the Gendarmerie motos could have big nasty whips attached to fairing - at face level.
Never mind a tap from a rider - 200 Swiss for shoving an idiot who is endangering your safety?? Joke.
Hinault knew what to do, whack 'em first and ask after.
The idiots get too close, scream in your ear, make themselves a complete and utter pain (as if there's not enough already!). The organisation have let this go on far too long - Alpe d'Huez has taught them nothing. Time to barrier all mountain top finishes top to bottom, treble the security people, and barrier the last 5km of every single Cat 2 upwards with double security personnel. Riders make them shedloads of money, they should think less of their profit and more about the riders who earn it for them. Without them, no race!


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Blimey. I'm glad I went to the pub to watch that. Not entirely surprised to get home to find 15 pages of comments to catch up on...



brommers said:


> If the result stands Yates is in yellow



Shame - would have been the first time three different Brits have worn yellow in the same Tour. Arguably, Yates could well have taken the yellow sooner if not for the flamme rouge incident.



Marmion said:


> I'll likely get shot down for this but what a great spectacle. There's much to be said for Mario Kart Pro Cycling.







gavroche said:


> I am full of admiration for Chris Froome. He is of the same mould as Merkcx, Anquetil, Hinault, as great champions. He is clever, intelligent and an opportunist. He can read the race and act accordingly. I think he has already won this tour and will win more. Quintana on the other hand lacks some of those qualities. He is too conservative and not as strong as we might think. He will never win the Tour.



Quintana has already shown himself to be tactically suspect again this year. And on top of that, we've had a real glimpse of his true form today. It was always a red flag that he chose to do the Route du Sud rather than the Dauphiné, and while I've been keen to give him a chance to prove himself, he needed to show some form today and wasn't able to. Clearly he isn't where he needs to be.



Twizit said:


> If they don't make any adjustment can you imagine how fired up Froome is going to be for the TT tomorrow...



Absolutely. Even if the result had stood, Froome would only have been 53 seconds down on Yates, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see him recoup all of that in the TT tomorrow. By the end of stage 17 he will have totally buried this race.



oldfatfool said:


> If the result stands Yates should tell them to stuff the jersey were the sun doesn't shine, to accept yellow in those circs imo would be a blight on his career.



Pffft. Unless Yates himself had deliberately caused the crash, the incident and its outcomes should have no bearing on his reputation.



PhilDawson8270 said:


> It's racing, it was an incident. Stuff happens, the result should stand.



Yeah, I'm inclined to believe it should have stood, and that Froome would have gone on to win the race anyway. I get why they have changed the result, and it's probably the right decision on balance, but I don't think it's a truly satisfactory outcome for anyone, including Froome. Most of all, it's a shame the racing is overshadowed by this kind of controversy.



Twizit said:


> Good point just made on the BBC live text commentary... whilst Froome and Porte have been given the time of Mollema, had the crash not happened then the three of them would have put more time into the others



Yeah, Quintana can count himself lucky. Same as the Yates flamme rouge incident, which is why he is doubly unlucky not to have been awarded the yellow jersey today.

And in all the excitement, no one has yet mentioned that Dan Martin also found his limits today, which I'm both surprised and disappointed by.



Crackle said:


> Let's not forget waht we saw today though. We know Quintana is not on form yet and Mollema and Porte are.



Good call by @400bhp to pick Mollema. There's been nothing in his performances so far this year to suggest he would do anything in this Tour - but at the same time, he's been quietly going about his job in a more effective and intelligent way than some much more fancied riders.


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## coffeejo (14 Jul 2016)

Watching the highlights and Millar is a prophet:

"Nobody wants to ride someone else's bike up Mont Ventoux. "


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Another thing: did I imagine it, or was Porte really about to stop to offer Froome his bike until he remembered he's no longer on the same team?


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Don't think anyone has mentioned this already, but I've just seen elsewhere that the reason Froome wasn't able to ride the neutral service bike was because it had Look pedals and he uses Shimano. The only other option is a bike with flat pedals and toeclips, apparently.

I know the service bikes don't get called into use very often but I can't believe it has never occurred to them before that this might be an issue. FFS.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2016)

From what I can gather it wasn't the initial crash that broke Froome's bike, but after he went down one of the following motos rode over it. While you may excuse the lead moto who had no choice but to stop (Though you could question why he had to be so close to the riders) the second one had no business sitting on the wheels of the riders.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Jul 2016)

Twitter says Trek Segafredo have submitted a protest against the decision. Not sure if that's true as it wasn't Trek Segafredo themselves


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## threebikesmcginty (14 Jul 2016)

Lolz


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

Moments after the initial crash, from cyclingnews.com - you can see the moto behind running into Froome's bike. He's lucky it was only the bike that got mangled and not his legs...


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## Roadrider48 (14 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> And why not? I expect he'll also have to submit to a dope test, also seriously.


No problem with it being checked. Just doesn't sit right, considering being accused of cheating seems to be part of Froomes cycling career.
If you're a fantastic climber you automatically come under suspicion.


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2016)

Great quote on Twitter -

"Ban disc brakes on motorbikes".


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## albion (14 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Twitter says Trek Segafredo have submitted a protest against the decision. Not sure if that's true as it wasn't Trek Segafredi themselves


If true they really need to wake up and smell their coffee.


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## Supersuperleeds (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Another thing: did I imagine it, or was Porte really about to stop to offer Froome his bike until he remembered he's no longer on the same team?



I said to our lass it would have been funny if he had got off his bike and gave it to Froome.

Richie Porte - Sky's number 10


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## Crandoggler (14 Jul 2016)

Well initially I was pissed off with the result before the highlights started. But Jesus wept! What a race. 

Quintana is absolutely nowhere. It gave me deep joy to watch him drop off the back of Froome and Porte. Such a shame that the full impact of the race didn't play out. I can imagine Quintana being a hell of a long way down.


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## ManiaMuse (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Don't think anyone has mentioned this already, but I've just seen elsewhere that the reason Froome wasn't able to ride the neutral service bike was because it had Look pedals and he uses Shimano. The only other option is a bike with flat pedals and toeclips, apparently.
> 
> I know the service bikes don't get called into use very often but I can't believe it has never occurred to them before that this might be an issue. FFS.


Problem is if the neutral car carried bikes with all pedal systems (Shimano/Look/Speedplay/Flats+toeclips) in at least 2 (ideally 3) bike sizes each they wouldn't have enough space to put them all on the roof!

Really it's just a sponsorship car for Mavic, as proven today it's never going to useful in the time you could just wait for your team car if you are already at the front. Although it's occasionally useful for quick wheel changes if you get a puncture. At some of the classics they sometimes have motorbikes carrying a couple of spare wheels over the cobbled sections which get taken fairly often.


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## smutchin (14 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Really it's just a sponsorship car for Mavic



This crossed my mind - and I presume the reason they choose Look is because that's who they have their commercial deal with rather than rider considerations, although I guess quite a high proportion of the peloton probably do use Look.

Interestingly, while most of Sky use Shimano, Elia Viviani uses Speedplay, so he'd be no good for Froome as a bike swap partner (not that he's ever likely to be in that position, not least because he's also a fair bit shorter than Froome).


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## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, Quintana can count himself lucky..



Doubly lucky, I think. Given Mollema also crashed, that whole group have effectively been penalised around 15 - 30 seconds, and according to Bruno Valcic the Quintana group was credited with the time of the Yates group as they 'were possibly held up a bit by the crash', so Quintana's benefited from a few more seconds there.



smutchin said:


> Don't think anyone has mentioned this already, but I've just seen elsewhere that the reason Froome wasn't able to ride the neutral service bike was because it had Look pedals and he uses Shimano. The only other option is a bike with flat pedals and toeclips, apparently. I know the service bikes don't get called into use very often but I can't believe it has never occurred to them before that this might be an issue. FFS.



It's something that's definitely been discussed before, but I think was given up on as too difficult to solve given the variation of systems in the peloton. Realistically since they can't possibly cope with the range of bike variations (sizes, pedal systems, etc.) needed to accomodate all the riders in the peloton, the neutral service vehicles are only really of use for wheels (and not always then) and the bikes are pretty useless for anything more than a last ditch effort while the team car catches up.



smutchin said:


> Moments after the initial crash, from cyclingnews.com - you can see the moto behind running into Froome's bike. He's lucky it was only the bike that got mangled and not his legs...



Really they all got away with it pretty lightly. That could easily have been 3 riders abandoning due to broken bones. Think ASO will be breathing a big sigh of relief tonight.


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## HF2300 (14 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Yes, you already said that. I replied to describe some trees near the commentary positions that were thrashing around even without helicopters.



Ah, sorry. I thought you'd read it as me saying it wasn't really windy, whereas I was just amused at Boulting taking downwash as evidence of the weather conditions.


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## SWSteve (14 Jul 2016)

Quintana cracked, he looked lost when Froome and Porte bounced off the front. Porte looks to be in great form, it's a shame he lost that time at the start as he could be stirring the GC right up.


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## jarlrmai (14 Jul 2016)

Ventoux delivers again most dramatic stage and they didn't even go to the top, the sight of the yellow jersey legging it up the Ventoux will live long in the memory.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> From what I can gather it wasn't the initial crash that broke Froome's bike, but after he went down one of the following motos rode over it. While you may excuse the lead moto who had no choice but to stop (Though you could question why he had to be so close to the riders) the second one had no business sitting on the wheels of the riders.


If the life of Demoitié and the continued coma of Broekx were worth something, if the UCI had taken control of the situation, then that moto rider following should be publicly named, shamed and thrown off cycling events for life. In the event it looked a bit like it ran over the bike stays and broke that and not the legs, life, or cycling career of a cyclist but the rules applied to motos have to accommodate the what-ifs. I can understand the first moto having to make an emergency stop given the crowds but not the following bike being too close to stop in time. Unforgivable.


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## Andrew_P (14 Jul 2016)

Have they tested Froomes Cleats yet, for illegal motors.

Awful as it was I did lol, only thesecond day I have been to avoid seeing the result before settling down to the highlights! I get so much more work done when the TdF is on lol


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## Smokin Joe (14 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> If the life of Demoitié and the continued coma of Broekx were worth something, if the UCI had taken control of the situation, then that moto rider following should be publicly named, shamed and thrown off cycling events for life. In the event it looked a bit like it ran over the bike stays and broke that and not the legs, life, or cycling career of a cyclist but the rules applied to motos have to accommodate the what-ifs. I can understand the first moto having to make an emergency stop given the crowds but not the following bike being too close to stop in time. Unforgivable.


The moto into which Porte crashed was itself held up by two or three other motorbikes in front of it. WTF do they need so many of them on the race for?


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## ManiaMuse (14 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> The moto into which Porte crashed was itself held up by two or three other motorbikes in front of it. WTF do they need so many of them on the race for?


Mostly to satisfy the TV director and public's demands for loads of camera angles and up to date race information. Up in the mountains is where you want more cameras on bikes as there will be more groups forming and it might not be possible to have a helicopter flying because of cloud/weather conditions. 

A few for neutral service wheels (you can see one checking if Froome just needs a wheel).

A few for race information/timing.

Police escorts at front and back and crowd control (although not much crowd control seemed to be happening today).

It's tricky though when the roads get narrow there isn't really anywhere for the motorbikes to pull over especially when the crowds start to encroach. I'm sure questions will be asked of the organisers although suspect they will probably bury their heads in the sand in true French fashion.


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## deptfordmarmoset (14 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> The moto into which Porte crashed was itself held up by two or three other motorbikes in front of it. WTF do they need so many of them on the race for?


What are they racing each other for? It's a bike race not a moto race for the best pictures.


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## gavroche (14 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Trouble with today was that it was 6Km shorter than what it would have been, but with the same amount of 'fans'


Good point that wasn't mentioned on tv.


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## Mike_P (14 Jul 2016)

Could drones be the answer tv coverage wise? Ought to be possible given the tracking on the bikes to control a drone so that it is not more than set distance away with a minimum height above ground as well. As for the issue of encroachment surely it needs better "policing" and barriers at locations where it obvious crowds are going to form.


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## Apollonius (14 Jul 2016)

I had a good look at the bikes on top of the Mavic neutral service car at Paris Roubaix. To be honest, they would be a last resort. They are pretty ancient and most of them have toe clips and straps.


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## Mark Grant (14 Jul 2016)

Mike_P said:


> Could drones be the answer tv coverage wise? Ought to be possible given the tracking on the bikes to control a drone so that it is not more than set distance away with a minimum height above ground as well. As for the issue of encroachment surely it needs better "policing" and barriers at locations where it obvious crowds are going to form.



Not sure about French air law but IIRC aircraft are not allowed to fly within 1000 feet of an organised gathering under CAA regs.


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## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

And converse


Mike_P said:


> Could drones be the answer tv coverage wise?.



No. Battery life is the main drawback.


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## 400bhp (14 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Quintana cracked, he looked lost when Froome and Porte bounced off the front. Porte looks to be in great form, it's a shame he lost that time at the start as he could be stirring the GC right up.



He did but he only lost 20 odd seconds. Therefore it wasn't a proper crack.


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## Crackle (14 Jul 2016)

Someone posted this on twitter earlier







I don't know if it's accurate and obviously it's not really possible. I guess the main issue is the time it takes to set up barriers and take them down for moving to the next stage but......


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## EnPassant (14 Jul 2016)

At the risk of incurring the wrath of those with more knowledge on the subject, the thought occurs that at least in part the proliferation of motorcycles is our fault.... are not many of them camera bikes as mentioned? We're the ones watching their output. Then there are some neutral service bikes (wheels mostly it seems) and at least one medical one.

The money that goes to the sport and ultimately the riders comes mostly from the tv coverage I'd imagine, as it does for other sports. Thus, less bikes, less coverage, less money. And a lot of things are always about the money in the end (sadly).

Further, the root cause still appears to be the lack of control of maniac spectators. So, no spectator in the way the first bike doesn't have to brake, the riders don't run into it and the second bike doesn't run into them. 

Barriers all the way up for me, spectators as a group are at the behest of the lowest common denominator, if 99% of them are well behaved it's still the 1 in 100 that cause all the trouble.

I'd also imagine that the m/c guys are pretty well schooled in how to behave and do indeed face stiff penalties if they err. Blaming them isn't exactly on a parallel with victim blaming for me, but having said that they've probably got a director in one ear telling them to get closer and if they don't they'll find somebody else who will and they're fine until this happens, then it's all their fault and never that of those putting the pressure on them.

Fix the root of the problem, the mankini men (and flag loonies and today a flare ffs).

Feel free to flame if you feel this is wrong.


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## Salad Dodger (14 Jul 2016)

Seems to me the organisers will have to set up a "finish line" at regular intervals in each days stage. If crowds cause a stoppage to all or part of the peleton, the result can be as at the previous "finish line", which should be pretty easy to do, as all bikes carry timing chips, I believe.....


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## suzeworld (14 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Quintana cracked, he looked lost when Froome and Porte bounced off the front. Porte looks to be in great form, it's a shame he lost that time at the start as he could be stirring the GC right up.



Yeah - this is the worst bit of it for me too ..

As to the incident itself, I cant believe how little barrier they had - I've seen much more than that at much less "famous" finishes,and all those people from the top 6km had been squashed into the space .. terrible misjudgement there.


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## oldroadman (14 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Problem is if the neutral car carried bikes with all pedal systems (Shimano/Look/Speedplay/Flats+toeclips) in at least 2 (ideally 3) bike sizes each they wouldn't have enough space to put them all on the roof!
> 
> Really it's just a sponsorship car for Mavic, as proven today it's never going to useful in the time you could just wait for your team car if you are already at the front. Although it's occasionally useful for quick wheel changes if you get a puncture. At some of the classics they sometimes have motorbikes carrying a couple of spare wheels over the cobbled sections which get taken fairly often.


In major pro races there is always a moto which is only allowed to carry wheels - UCI rules. But it's always there.


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## oldroadman (14 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Mostly to satisfy the TV director and public's demands for loads of camera angles and up to date race information. Up in the mountains is where you want more cameras on bikes as there will be more groups forming and it might not be possible to have a helicopter flying because of cloud/weather conditions.
> 
> A few for neutral service wheels (you can see one checking if Froome just needs a wheel).
> 
> ...


looked like a train of media motos. Not a radio tour or commissaire in there. Just too many media motos which all fight for space. they need to give a bit more on the high mountains.


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## livpoksoc (14 Jul 2016)

Mark Grant said:


> Not sure about French air law but IIRC aircraft are not allowed to fly within 1000 feet of an organised gathering under CAA regs.


They could sanction remote control ones on a set number of private frequencies to allow for it


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## mjr (14 Jul 2016)

livpoksoc said:


> They could sanction remote control ones on a set number of private frequencies to allow for it


Great idea! Then instead of motorbikes crashing into them, we can have human error dropping blades onto their heads:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYFdh1w_n6M


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## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

I remember watching that live


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## brommers (14 Jul 2016)

Does anyone think that there was a concerted (and planned) effort by the spectators to deliberately try to stop Froome when they saw the yellow jersey - remember last year with the urine etc.


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## brommers (15 Jul 2016)

Was Aru penalised for his antics - taking bottles and immediately throwing them away? Is slipstreaming your team car allowed? You would have thought that with all the money around they could invent gloves that don't stick to a plastic bottle.


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Was Aru penalised for his antics - taking bottles and immediately throwing them away? Is slipstreaming your team car allowed? You would have thought that with all the money around they could invent gloves that don't stick to a plastic bottle.


 It'll probably be CHF200 fine for their team but there seems to be some delay publishing the jury decisions today


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## oldfatfool (15 Jul 2016)

Mike_P said:


> Could drones be the answer tv coverage wise? Ought to be possible given the tracking on the bikes to control a drone so that it is not more than set distance away with a minimum height above ground as well. As for the issue of encroachment surely it needs better "policing" and barriers at locations where it obvious crowds are going to form.


Interesting article in bicycling mag (us publication) they were using a drone for some action shots for thr mag climbing the Alpe. One of the rotors failed plummetting the drone to a death lost down the mountain. Can just imagine that happening and it causing serious damage. More cameras on the bikes themselves could be the answer.


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## Flying_Monkey (15 Jul 2016)

They will probably use drones eventually as they last longer between charges, get more powerful at smaller sizes, and get easier to operate and control more precisely.


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## Crandoggler (15 Jul 2016)

God, I hate the word drone.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> The moto into which Porte crashed was itself held up by two or three other motorbikes in front of it. WTF do they need so many of them on the race for?



...and the motos in front of it appeared to be blocked by the crowds, so the outcome might have been the same had there only been one; and as far as I know we don't know if there were cars stopped in front of the motos?

I don't think the root cause was motos here, but I do wonder about moto behaviour; the one behind Froome was clearly riding too close as it wasn't able to stop in time, and I wonder whether the one in front of Porte had to stop so hard because they were too close to each other - each having to brake progressively harder until the last really had to stand on the brakes.

One thing that did happen, because we saw it, is that after the accident the road was partly blocked by motos either because they weren't able to get out of the way or because they were all anxious to see / get the best shot of the crash.

Truth is it's a complex situation with no simple answer, but the number of motos might not be relevant had the crowd control been adequate and the available road been wide enough. Given the need to get cars as well as motos up the stage and enable attacks, it seems to me the organisers should be able to guarantee a road width of, say, 6' 6" by barriers or other means. I guess they've shied away from it in the past, as @Crackle suggests, because of the difficulty of erecting extensive sections of barrier in the limited time available (rather than just pure cost).

There is, in the UCI regs and in the regs issued for individual races, quite an extensive section about the control of the official convoy, behaviour of press and other vehicles etc., with diagrams of the convoy layout and so on, which might clarify questions about the number and use of motos. Unfortunately I don't think ASO are as good about making this information as easy to find as other organisers are, but a google might turn it up.



gavroche said:


> Good point that wasn't mentioned on tv.



Increased crowds mentioned several times upthread, and also discussed by Imlach and Boardman, in the live ITV4 programme at least. The big difference between this stage and 'normal' mountain stages to me seemed that while the big mountain stages are always (stupidly) crowded, in the section where the crash happened the crowds were so thick that those out in the middle of the road weren't able to retreat back out of the way, and the idiots running were actually running among the bikes and motos rather than alongside - and alongside is risky enough.



brommers said:


> Does anyone think that there was a concerted (and planned) effort by the spectators to deliberately try to stop Froome when they saw the yellow jersey - remember last year with the urine etc.



No. In that chaotic crowd? Good luck trying to organise that lot to do something concerted. Not even sure that where the motos stopped, the crowd in the road could have seen it was Froome approaching.



Mike_P said:


> Could drones be the answer tv coverage wise?



Seems to me there are too many negatives to drones at the moment; reliability, battery life, risk of danger to the public, aviation regulations, limits of control (line of sight, distance, keeping the operator close enough to the drone given the crowds, obstructions to radio transmissions, windy conditions and unusual air currents / eddies round mountains, etc.) and so on. Given the speed with which drones are being adopted for other work I'm sure it'll come, but I'm not sure it'll come quickly and in any case, drones wouldn't replace much of the official convoy and wouldn't have resolved the crowd control issue that was the issue here and seems to be a fundamental problem on the big mountain stages.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I realise it's hard to believe, but I'm afraid I have been living a lie. All I can do is apologise to you all for my betrayal.



Devastated.


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## suzeworld (15 Jul 2016)

It is mainly about crowd control, they really didn't have the barriers far enough down the road. But Boardman was pretty agitated initially and defo seemed to be laying some blame on number of motos too ... in terms of them being involved in incidents with riders,

I woke up thinking about Porte, Molema and Froome this morning - all so lucky not to have suffered career-stopping injuries - which is why Boardman was so cross - he knows the risk of serious injury is massive and seeing the actual footage of Porte's chin hitting that moto and the other moto only inches from Froome's legs was very chilling. And today they have to continue with their war-wounds maybe impacting on their riding.

btw - dont tar all the fans with the same brush ..yes we can see the mankini-muppets and other show-offs-drunks, but many there are genuine fans. Everyone, on any mountian stage, has had to make some personal effort to get there in advance of the road closure, most cycling and indeed walking for miles up the route. they include folk like the ones on the ITV4 show who plan their parking spot 5 days before the event - these ppl are enthusiasts for the event and certainly not there to knock riders off .. but the volume of people creates a flow / danger of its own .. . which better barriers would help to control.


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## 400bhp (15 Jul 2016)

I think it's a relatively simple case of not enough time to plan through the logistics of a route change. Therefore the barriers weren't down the road far enough.

That in itself (planning for a route change) therefore needs to be considered in future tours.

I did worry that something would happen on a shortened course.

I watched a mountain finish stage on the vuelta in 2013 (ASO event) and the barriers were all the way up the climb. It was low mountains and IIRC the climb was about 8 k.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jul 2016)

Article saying Froome was abusing the YJ by slowing the peloton so that his team mates could catch up, and that that Movistar missed a tactical trick by failing to press their advantage at this point. 

Froome’s abuse of yellow was Movistar’s missed opportunity

I have no opinion on this either way. When I saw on the TdF ticker that the peloton had slowed to let the Sky domestiques catch up I did think it odd, but there are so many unwritten rules that I don't pretend (or try) to understand. 

I find a lot of things in life a bit odd, and most of them are normal.


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## Fab Foodie (15 Jul 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> God, I hate the word drone.


It just goes on and on and ....


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## 400bhp (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Article saying Froome was abusing the YJ by slowing the peloton so that his team mates could catch up, and that that Movistar missed a tactical trick by failing to press their advantage at this point.
> 
> Froome’s abuse of yellow was Movistar’s missed opportunity
> 
> ...



I was watching it. Gerrans and three sky riders hit the deck. Sky had been riding on the front for a while. Practically they waited for froome but that's bike racing. You don't want enemies in the peleton


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## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Article saying Froome was abusing the YJ by slowing the peloton so that his team mates could catch up, and that that Movistar missed a tactical trick by failing to press their advantage at this point.
> 
> Froome’s abuse of yellow was Movistar’s missed opportunity
> 
> ...


Cancellara is a hand-waving nobber; he has history of these things - remember the slidy road from a few years ago and also a stage earlier this year? He has used his self-appointed "patron" status to ill-effect; let people decide for themselves whether they want to race or sit about waiting. I have enjoyed seeing Cancellara race over the years, but I reckon he's just a nobber.

I'd have loved to have heard (I only managed to catch the last 10km) that Valverde had attacked and others had gone with him, putting Froome under pressure. it's become a bit of a controlled event. Obviously some things are beyond their control, as seen yesterday near the end, but even then it's "controlled" to redress the balance in the favour of "fair play/what would have been" rather than accepting misfortune and uncertainty - the race would be much more interesting for permitting attacks and accepting misfortune as part of racing.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Article saying Froome was abusing the YJ by slowing the peloton so that his team mates could catch up, and that that Movistar missed a tactical trick by failing to press their advantage at this point.
> 
> Froome’s abuse of yellow was Movistar’s missed opportunity.



Think there are three issues with this. First, the writer portrays it as "waiting for and protecting his loyal domestiques" - but of the two that went down, only one was Sky; the guy that precipitated the crash was Gerrans of OBE working for Yates. It looks much more like fellow feeling among cyclists. Second, Movistar had, by my count, only two or three riders apart from Quintana; so had they pressed on, they might well have used up their support trying to stretch things out on the flat, risking insufficient support on Ventoux. Third, had Movistar attacked, it's likely that Froome would have pressed on without Stannard to reel Movistar back in; with Sky's superior numbers in that group, it's likely they'd have done it and had support left for Ventoux that Movistar didn't have. To suggest Froome abused the power of the yellow jersey is just silly.


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## suzeworld (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Article saying Froome was abusing the YJ by slowing the peloton so that his team mates could catch up, and that that Movistar missed a tactical trick by failing to press their advantage at this point.
> 
> Froome’s abuse of yellow was Movistar’s missed opportunity
> 
> I have no opinion on this either way.



Interesting read ... 
Froome is a master tactician .. if he wasn't hurt he had no business stopping, and maybe the others should have pressed on and called his bluff .. it is in these split second decisions that races are won and lost .. and placings too, as the article suggests. 

I have got to say, Froome certainly had Quintana beat on Ventoux before his crash, but maybe he would have been less strong without his team for the kms before that? I am not sure though - Froome could have taken anyone's wheel up Ventoux. according to Millar you dont get so much benefit from draughting up climbs like that ..


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## suzeworld (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Think there are three issues with this. First, the writer portrays it as "waiting for and protecting his loyal domestiques" - but of the two that went down, only one was Sky; the guy that precipitated the crash was Gerrans of OBE working for Yates. It looks much more like fellow feeling among cyclists. Second, Movistar had, by my count, only two or three riders apart from Quintana; so had they pressed on, they might well have used up their support trying to stretch things out on the flat, risking insufficient support on Ventoux. Third, had Movistar attacked, it's likely that Froome would have pressed on without Stannard to reel Movistar back in; with Sky's superior numbers in that group, it's likely they'd have done it and had support left for Ventoux that Movistar didn't have. To suggest Froome abused the power of the yellow jersey is just silly.



I like your analysis .. your eye for detail beats mine!


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jul 2016)

I'm loth to express an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the peloton's unwritten rules because I'm so far from understanding what it's like, but I do find them a bit frustrating. Just get on with it. Like all the hand wringing when Bertie attacked Schleck just as Schleck lost his chain. The problem with these "fairness" rules is that (to an outside observer) they just make things more unfair, because some incidents are compensated for (Froome's domestiques getting delayed by a crash) and some aren't (Porte punctures on Stage 2, Cavendish's mechanical day before yesterday). So it begins to look like a bit of a stitch up. 

But the usual disclaimer applies: I am an idiot and my opinions are worthless.


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## T4tomo (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> In line with your spirit of truth and reconciliation, may I admit that I did not ride alongside Hinault and Lemond in the La Vie Claire team. I apologise to those whom I may have mislead.


I'll admit to being your fellow non teammate in La Vie Clare too. Lovely shirt (and socks and gloves) though.


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

Somewhere in all the coverage (sorry!) is a comment that the organisation has already started preliminary setup on top of Ventoux, including barrier delivery. After the decision to shorten the stage, they were unable to retrieve all the barriers in time along with all else they were doing, such as setting up the Technical Zone 30km away in a supermarket carpark.

I guess they didn't think anyone would be such a nobber as to block the race.


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> I guess they didn't think anyone would be such a nobber as to block the race.



Have they never watched the Tour de France before?


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## Aravis (15 Jul 2016)

I've never felt comfortable with the "don't take advantage of the yellow jersey's misfortune" convention, not because it's a bad thing in itself but because giving the jersey special status unbalances the competition. The clearest example I can remember is Van Impe on Alpe d'Huez in 1977. I don't think he was virtual leader when the incident took place, but he certainly was for part of the climb. What happened was deeply unsatisfactory and it would have been played out completely differently had he been in the jersey.

So if there's going to be a convention where a particular rider is protected against losing his chance through misfortune, I'd prefer to see it extended to include all GC contenders (no idea how you define that). Or just say that racing incidents are racing incidents, and non-racing incidents like yesterday's will be dealt with by the organisers as appropriate. On balance I think I prefer the latter.

Regarding Froome and his domestiques yesterday, I think he probably did pull a fast one.


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## Crandoggler (15 Jul 2016)

I guess it's like kicking the ball out of play when a teammate is down, but the ref hasn't blown his whistle. Frustrating, but that's the name of the game. They want all their team alongside them.


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

Interesting suggestion on the ITV podcast by David Millar, that the neutral service car should carry four bikes set up for the top four GC riders. He acknowledges it would privilege GC leaders, but things already do (I guess he means things like team car ordering). It probably won't happen due to sponsorships, but the current situation already makes neutral service sponsors look rubbish.


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## Elybazza61 (15 Jul 2016)

It does seem a bit strange that they didn't move the barriers further down the climb as they had made the descition to shorten the stage the day before.

De Gent mentioned that he was surprised the barriers started so close to the finish.

Also don't see how they can give Quintana the same time as Mollema,Ritchie and Chris;with the data they have now surely they could make a note of the gaps before the incident and just apply them.


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## Elybazza61 (15 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Interesting suggestion on the ITV podcast by David Millar, that the neutral service car should carry four bikes set up for the top four GC riders. He acknowledges it would privilege GC leaders, but things already do (I guess he means things like team car ordering). It probably won't happen due to sponsorships, but the current situation already makes neutral service sponsors look rubbish.



It does seem bizzare that the neutral service bikes don't have bikes with different pedals on them;I would have thought that they would have standard size bikes with shimano,look,time etc pedals on with long seat posts so they can cover most circumstances.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Elybazza61 said:


> Also don't see how they can give Quintana the same time as Mollema,Ritchie and Chris;with the data they have now surely they could make a note of the gaps before the incident and just apply them.



They didn't, they gave him the same time as Yates, according to Bruno Valcic.


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## jarlrmai (15 Jul 2016)

The convention is because of the riders, no-one wants to be the man who only won the yellow jersey because of someone else's technical problem.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They didn't, they gave him the same time as Yates, according to Bruno Valcic.


That was my understanding as well.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)




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## Shadow (15 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Most of all, it's a shame the racing is overshadowed by this kind of controversy.


Quite agree.

Can I just say that de Gendt was excellent value yesterday. Rode superbly. With an honourable mention to Pauwels.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Pinot* and Gerrans have quit.






*This puts De Gendt in the polka dot jersey.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Interesting suggestion on the ITV podcast by David Millar, that the neutral service car should carry four bikes set up for the top four GC riders. He acknowledges it would privilege GC leaders, but things already do (I guess he means things like team car ordering). It probably won't happen due to sponsorships, but the current situation already makes neutral service sponsors look rubbish.


Remember this incident from 2010 ?
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4...-Tour-de-France-with-help-from-kids-bike.aspx


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## Aravis (15 Jul 2016)

It's perhaps worth bearing in mind that the gaps created by yesterday's incident were relatively small; even if no post-race adjustments had been made I don't think anyone would have lost their chance because of it. Maybe in a few days time someone will have won the Tour decisively and yesterday won't look quite so significant.

Normally any neutral observer would want everything to go to the wire, but perhaps this is one occasion where that wouldn't be the best thing.


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## jarlrmai (15 Jul 2016)

That's the thing about the Tour no-one knows, Froome could crash out in the TT today or it could come down to a a few seconds on the penultimate day. So all the riders can do is get the seconds where they can and it's up to the organisers to ensure the race is as fair as possible.


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## TheJDog (15 Jul 2016)

https://twitter.com/stephanvdzwan/status/753877147312238592

Vrooooom.


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## Venod (15 Jul 2016)

Why was there booing at the Yellow Jersey presentation yesterday ?


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Afnug said:


> Why was there booing at the Yellow Jersey presentation yesterday ?


Because some people don't like Froome.


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## brommers (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> *This puts De Gendt in the polka dot jersey.


He already had the jersey


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## brommers (15 Jul 2016)

The race will go ahead today after yesterdays awful massacre in Nice. A minutes silence at the start and finish.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2016)

Afnug said:


> Why was there booing at the Yellow Jersey presentation yesterday ?


I think a lot of it was because the crowd at the finish were not fully aware of what had happened, thinking perhaps the Froome had been delayed by a normal crash.

Re the neutral service car, surely it would make sense to have no pedals on the spare bikes and carry the full range in the car? It takes no time at all for a mechanic to spin a couple of pedals onto the cranks.


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

TheJDog said:


> https://twitter.com/stephanvdzwan/status/753877147312238592
> 
> Vrooooom.


Quintana getting a tow by holding onto the neutral service moto's spare wheels. Been taking tips from Nibali? But it was while Froome was down so maybe it's inside the retrospectively-neutralised zone.


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## TheJDog (15 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Re the neutral service car, surely it would make sense to have no pedals on the spare bikes and carry the full range in the car? It takes no time at all for a mechanic to spin a couple of pedals onto the cranks.



It'd take a minute. Seems like too long.

Easier to have a couple of speedplay/spd-sl to look cleat converters. I'm not sure such a thing exists, but it would be possible to make. Not sure how easy it would be to unclip, though, and whether you'd be left with the converter in the shoe or the pedal, or one on one side...


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Re the neutral service car, surely it would make sense to have no pedals on the spare bikes and carry the full range in the car? It takes no time at all for a mechanic to spin a couple of pedals onto the cranks.


Exactly what I thought. After all, they'll only be using a neutral bike in extremis, as a stop gap until their team car can arrive, so they can take what they are given in terms of setup as long as it's rideable. Or else make all riders carry a 15mm spanner to transfer their own bloody pedals over. Or is that a bit old skool?


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I think a lot of it was because the crowd at the finish were not fully aware of what had happened, thinking perhaps the Froome had been delayed by a normal crash.


Listening live, I think they also booed the explanation when it came over the speakers. I felt it was as much frustration that they'd made quite some effort (some walking kilometres back down the mountain) to watch a race that was partly erased from the official history because of the actions of fans and motorbikes before it reached that section of the crowd.



> Re the neutral service car, surely it would make sense to have no pedals on the spare bikes and carry the full range in the car? It takes no time at all for a mechanic to spin a couple of pedals onto the cranks.


I think threading the pedals in correctly and tightening them would take too long. If they can't cook up some sort of multi-attachment pedal that at least allows a wide range of cleats not to foul a flat surface, then maybe some sort of folding-bike-style click-on adapters would allow them to fit the right pedals quickly. Sort of the inverse of the MKS EZY adapters that let you put removable pedals into a threaded crank - does it exist yet?


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

User said:


> The neutral service car could have the spanner


I would make some joke calling the neutral service mechanics spanners because it seems to take them much longer to fix bikes than the team car mechanics, but it's not really fair because neutral service have to deal with a wide range of unfamiliar bikes and often don't get radio warnings of what they're about to deal with.


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## jarlrmai (15 Jul 2016)

Perhaps we'll see GC team members with spare bikes at the side of the road on hilltop finishes in future.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jul 2016)

User said:


> The neutral service car could have the spanner


Goodness, you do want to molycoddle these riders.


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Perhaps we'll see GC team members with spare bikes at the side of the road on hilltop finishes in future.


I think any soigneur holding a Sky bike among that crowd would want danger money!


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## perplexed (15 Jul 2016)

The commissaries came to the correct decision as far I can see - some have said let it stand, feeling it benefits Froome, but I disagree. This doesn't account for the fact that Froome was putting time into Quinana though, so in actual fact Froome has in reality been disadvantaged, not t' other way round.

I was really p***ed off at the actions of some in the crowd.

I know it's difficult, the police are thin on the ground, but let's get some very public arrests made as a deterrent, preferably with the miscreants face plastered all over the press and copies sent to their boss.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> He already had the jersey


D'oh. He won it from Pinot yesterday, then Pinot retired. This makes sense now I've had more coffee.


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## perplexed (15 Jul 2016)

Which rider was it, back in the Desgrange days I believe, who was penalised because he got the blacksmiths' daughter to pump the bellows as he forged/mended his own front forks on a stage?


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Or else make all riders carry a 15mm spanner to transfer their own bloody pedals over. Or is that a bit old skool?



Make 'em repair their own bikes. It was good enough in 1903 so it should be good enough now.

Love, Henri Desgrange


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

Here's some confirmation of the difficult logistics of moving the barriers, rather than having more


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> View attachment 134929



I don't understand this. If they put Porte at 5'05" why was he classified 19th not 11th?


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I don't understand this. If they put Porte at 5'05" why was he classified 19th not 11th?


Because that's the physical order in which they crossed the line.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Here's some confirmation of the difficult logistics of moving the barriers, rather than having more
> 
> View attachment 134941



That makes sense. And I'd guess the TdF probably swallows all the temporary barriers for miles around, so it may not have been easy to find more or get it up there at short notice.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Because that's the physical order in which they crossed the line.



Oh, OK. Obvious I suppose. Never really paid attention to the numbers before and naively I thought they might classify them in classification order. Thanks @coffeejo


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Meanwhile, back at the racing Rohan Dennis holds the lead currently from Stephen Cummings.

"Overall I'm happy with the ride, it's been a tough Tour so far. Considering it's stage 13, it's a different feeling time trialing with super fatigue, especially when the course is so hard, not just the climbing in general but the wind as well played a huge part. I think one major factor for anyone who's gonna be going for today's stage is what wheels they pick. Look, some of the smaller guys might not be picking a faster wheel and just because of their weight and not being able to hold the bike. You've got those crosswinds so maybe it might help us. As bigger guys, you could say… I'm hoping for my own sake that that's the case but it's definitely not an easy course today. It's quite challenging."


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> Which rider was it, back in the Desgrange days I believe, who was penalised because he got the blacksmiths' daughter to pump the bellows as he forged/mended his own front forks on a stage?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Christophe#1913_and_the_Tourmalet_incident


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## 400bhp (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That makes sense. And I'd guess the TdF probably swallows all the temporary barriers for miles around, so it may not have been easy to find more or get it up there at short notice.



They carry some barriers with them.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Maybe they should press gang everyone who likes running in silly costumes to run up every mountain ahead of the riders to keep the road clear?


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> They carry some barriers with them.



Think that needs some clarification!


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Dennis on the GC contenders:

“I can't disregard Froome, that would be stupid. He's a great time trialer and climber. As you've seen he's got power in the flat and the hills at the moment. He's probably one of the big favourites. For us in general, with BMC, Tejay and Richie are in great positions. The factor of the wind is going to be the biggest factor for guys like Richie, and what wheels he picks are obviously gonna be pretty decisive. Hopefully for his sake and our GC the hope is the wind does drop and he can really use his strength on the climbing to take time out and then he won't lose the time so much in the wind along the ridge of the first climb. Tejay is pretty strong all round as well. Mollema I'm not 100% sure how he time trials, I've never seen him at the top of TT ranking. Quintana I think is in the same boat as Richie. I don't know how he's gonna handle the wind.”


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## Hont (15 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> That's the thing about the Tour no-one knows, Froome could crash out in the TT today or it could come down to a a few seconds on the penultimate day. So all the riders can do is get the seconds where they can and it's up to the organisers to ensure the race is as fair as possible.


Indeed.

And if Froome does end up winning by a handful of seconds he owes Bauke Mollema a few beers. If he had the same problems as Porte and Froome they would have likely been given the same time as Yates et al.


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## Venod (15 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> Indeed.
> 
> And if Froome does end up winning by a handful of seconds he owes Bauke Mollema a few beers. If he had the same problems as Porte and Froome they would have likely been given the same time as Yates et al.



I think they would have given them the time gap they had at the time of the crash, to me this would seem fairer than how they awarded the final times..


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## Levo-Lon (15 Jul 2016)

Just seen the clip where Froome has the neutral bike...he looked like a first timer on a halfords special ..


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## Hont (15 Jul 2016)

Quintana caught on camera holding on to the neutral service car (at 10 seconds)...

https://twitter.com/assekevin/status/753720450551836673

Should be at least a time penalty no?


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Maybe they should press gang everyone who likes running in silly costumes to run up every mountain ahead of the riders to keep the road clear?


 Put some horns on the lead motos and it might attract some of the lunatics from Pamplona!


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## mjr (15 Jul 2016)

Hont said:


> Quintana caught on camera holding on to the neutral service car (at 10 seconds)...
> 
> https://twitter.com/assekevin/status/753720450551836673
> 
> Should be at least a time penalty no?


TMN to @TheJDog. I opined that Froome was off his bike so it was after the point where the jury neutralised it, so no further action.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Oliviera:

“A lot of riders are yet to finish. I hope nobody passes me but I know that many good riders haven't raced yet. I was feeling good. It's a really hard TT. The wind makes it a little bit dangerous. With the new technologies, you can watch the watts, you know what you need to do. I just followed the watts. I knew I needed some energy for the last part. The last climb was decisive. I was also lucky to feel good towards the end. Tom Dumoulin will be hard to beat on this course. If anyone can beat him, it'll be Chris Froome.”


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Tony Martin currently in a lowly 5th place, just behind Ion Izagirre, with some big names still to finish. Starting to regret being one of the few idiots not to pick Dumoulin in the punditry today - he's out on the course right now and fastest by a good margin at the first two time checks.


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

Something fishy going on with the official Le Tour TT page timings. 145 riders have passed the first check point, only 116 have passed the second but 130 have passed the 3rd and 127 have finished completely.

So 14 riders have found a shortcut somewhere....


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Bizarrely, the live data feed is showing Romain Sicard in 2nd place at the second time check even though he was 1.17 down at the first check. Did he find a shortcut or something?


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> So 14 riders have found a shortcut somewhere....



Snap. 

I didn't notice the discrepancy in the overall numbers, but it certainly seems like something is up!


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

New form of doping? ... cut out half the course!


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

Mines right.


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## Buddfox (15 Jul 2016)

Genuinely hope there hasn't been a balls up. It's not like this Tour hasn't had a couple already...!


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

Wow Dumoulin flying now at 3rd check point. Nearly 1 minute up.


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Whatever's going on down the field, Dumoulin has just gone through the third time check 54 seconds ahead of Coppel.


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## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Genuinely hope there hasn't been a balls up. It's not like this Tour hasn't had a couple already...!



Suspect it's just a glitch in the hardware at the second checkpoint. It's only the time at the finish that matters, so as long as that's ok, it doesn't really matter.

ETA: the second checkpoint has now gone offline, which seems to back up my theory.


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## suzeworld (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Because some people don't like Froome.



They would not have seen the crash footage and would have seen Quintana come in ahead, and the first release of the race time ... so they would think it was a fix ..

which you still might think, but the moto/crowd responsibility would not have been very clear at that point to spectators.


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## brommers (15 Jul 2016)

Tom D @1'31" in front


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## ComedyPilot (15 Jul 2016)

Does anyone find the way the bloke counts the riders down in the time trial start hut for the last 5 seconds with his fingers a bit odd?

Cinq - all five digits
Quatre - drops the thumb
Trois - raises thumb, drops ring and little finger
Deux - Drops thumb
Un - drops middle finger

I just find it strange and counter-intuitive.....I suppose their are moore things too wory about in the world that than, but I thought my little observation needed a few pixels of web space.


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

ComedyPilot said:


> Does anyone find the way the bloke counts the riders down in the time trial start hut for the last 5 seconds with his fingers a bit odd?
> 
> Cinq - all five digits
> Quatre - drops the thumb
> ...


Haven't seen it but maybe he's an aspiring Ted Rogers of 3-2-1 fame.... for those old enough to remember it...


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## ComedyPilot (15 Jul 2016)

Ah, but Ted Rogers deployed the vertical hand spun between counts approach (to avoid flicking V's) in his delivery. This bloke does it with a static hand.


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## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

What's happening?

I went to watch it inline and all I have is some posh southern tossers looking for houses somewhere.

I really, really couldn't give a flying 3-2-1!!


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## Buddfox (15 Jul 2016)

ComedyPilot said:


> Does anyone find the way the bloke counts the riders down in the time trial start hut for the last 5 seconds with his fingers a bit odd?
> 
> Cinq - all five digits
> Quatre - drops the thumb
> ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger-counting

http://www.suitqaisdiaries.com/count-numbers-on-hand/

This features in a scene in Inglorious Basterds


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> What's happening?
> 
> I went to watch it inline and all I have is some posh southern tossers looking for houses somewhere.
> 
> I really, really couldn't give a flying 3-2-1!!


Sorry... back on topic Dumoulin is still 1.31 in the lead. Thomas the closest of recent starters - 18 seconds off at the first check.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> What's happening?!



Wrong channel? It's on ITV4.

Top 5 at mo:

1. Tom Dumoulin, 50.15
2. Nelson Oliveira, at 1.31
3. Jérôme Coppel, at 1.35
4. Rohan Dennis, at 1.41
5. Ion Izagirre, at 2.02

Purito, Porte, Thomas, TVG etc on the road at the mo. Bardet just starting.


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## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

Update.... Oh for all that is b*ggery, despite it saying it was the TdF on itv4, which I assumed was coming next.... It was the bloody BBC!

Really, what a crap website THAT was!


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## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

Are the riders being set off 2 minutes apart?


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## Twizit (15 Jul 2016)

3 mins


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## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

Thomas going well at the 28k check


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## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> 3 mins



Cheers


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## brommers (15 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Are the riders being set off 2 minutes apart?


Up until the last 16 it's 2 minutes, after that 3


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## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

Got it now


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

ITV reporting Porte down to 12th at split.


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Aru down to 155 at the 28k split!


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## Slaav (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Aru down to 155 at the 28k split!



That surprised me - and watching it in Portuguese so making no sense - was hoping for an active commentary or discussion on here


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## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Porte 15th in the end. No explanation for the time loss unless he got it wrong, or the wind's picked up.


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## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

G done good.


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## Slaav (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Porte 15th in the end. No explanation for the time loss unless he got it wrong, or the wind's picked up.


no explanation on Porte? I am sure I read this morning that he was really looking forward to this??


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Porte 15th in the end. No explanation for the time loss unless he got it wrong, or the wind's picked up.


They're saying that Froome is down on the first checkpoint, which I put down to yesterday's crash but the weather could also explain it.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> They're saying that Froome is down on the first checkpoint, which I put down to yesterday's crash but the weather could also explain it.



He's miles ahead of those that matter though.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Slaav said:


> no explanation on Porte? I am sure I read this morning that he was really looking forward to this??



No obvious explanation, and the commentators and Tour ticker aren't coming up with anything. There's a suggestion that the wind's maybe getting worse as later runners seem perhaps to be slower, but nothing definite. There's also been a suggestion all the way through that some of the split times are iffy.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Looks like TVG's now BMC's leader - until the next mountain stage...


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> He's miles ahead of those that matter though.


This is true. I was also comparing it to Porte's time but it does look like he pushed too hard in the first section.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Yates running at around 21st at the splits. Porte says he can't explain his loss, just a very hard day.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Froome 2nd at the next split.


----------



## fimm (15 Jul 2016)

Is Porte shorter (and therefore lighter) than some of the others? That's a disadvantage in the wind.


----------



## Slaav (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Yates running at around 21st at the splits. Porte says he can't explain his loss, just a very hard day.



Froome lying in 2nd now? at 3rd split?? Can he make that up - seems unlikely!


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Quintana losing another big chunk to Froome.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Slaav said:


> Froome lying in 2nd now? at 3rd split?? Can he make that up - seems unlikely!



47 seconds (I think) so probably not.


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Hope I don't jinx him but Yates is having a fantastic Tour.


----------



## Slaav (15 Jul 2016)

Where is that slippy left hander where a few have slid and nearly joined the spectators? Looks like a crossing/white painted section immediately after the apex??


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Quintana losing another big chunk to Froome.


And Yates.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

Mollema 5th. Strong ride.


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> And Yates.



I think Quintana's running about the same time as Yates. Just finished at 18th, so yes. Yates due in soon so let's see.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

Froome getting some sporadic booing


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> They would not have seen the crash footage and would have seen Quintana come in ahead, and the first release of the race time ... so they would think it was a fix ..
> 
> which you still might think, but the moto/crowd responsibility would not have been very clear at that point to spectators.


Listen to some people loudly booing Froome today as he rides past them in the TT.


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I think Quintana's running about the same time as Yates. Just finished at 18th, so yes. Yates due in soon so let's see.


Phew, I didn't jinx the lad!


----------



## HF2300 (15 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I think Quintana's running about the same time as Yates. Just finished at 18th, so yes. Yates due in soon so let's see.



Yates seven seconds faster than Quintana, so not much in it.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

Froome takes 2 minutes on Yates and Quintana. 1 min on Mollama


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

Froome 2nd, Dumoulin 1st

Or something like that


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

Valverde only 18 seconds behind Quintana in GC, will be interesting to see if he decides he's still number one and stop supporting Quintana.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

That is one sunburned kid standing behind in the Gerraint interview!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

Apparently it is to be one single ceremony where all the riders bedecked in jerseys make an appearance.


----------



## Hont (15 Jul 2016)

Bauke Mollema has a very aerodynamic nose.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

A minutes silence observed on the podium.

It does make me wonder if the tour will be a furure target, but only time will tell I guess.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

I mean, I guess the finish line and so on will have security, but it would only need someone to perform a well positioned/timed attack at one of the bits with little or no security....


----------



## smutchin (15 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Froome takes 2 minutes on Yates and Quintana. 1 min on Mollama



So...



smutchin said:


> Even if the result had stood, Froome would only have been 53 seconds down on Yates, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see him recoup all of that in the TT tomorrow.



Yep, he would indeed be back in yellow even if yesterday's result had stood. Although Mollema would be a much closer second, something like 15 seconds down.


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I mean, I guess the finish line and so on will have security, but it would only need someone to perform a well positioned/timed attack at one of the bits with little or no security....


Trouble with thinking like that is that you'd never leave the house again. But eventually die anyway, alone.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Trouble with thinking like that is that you'd never leave the house again. But eventually die anyway, alone.



Indeed, but it must be a worry for the race organisers at both this and other events.


----------



## ManiaMuse (15 Jul 2016)

Impressive from Froome, definitely a memorable performance from him so far this tour for all sorts of reasons. With a mountainous time trial to come as well it's surely his to lose as long as he stays out of more trouble?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> ...it's surely his to lose as long as he stays out of more trouble?



He won't *

* he might, but I am predicting otherwise


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Indeed, but it must be a worry for the race organisers at both this and other events.


Yes, I am sure it is but they deliberately chose to go ahead with the race today. Everyone agreed that despite the horror of what happened last night in Nice, "they" win unless the show goes on.


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1050984264950952&id=103512969698091

Hope this link works. Should do as it's the TDF Facebook page which is a public page. If not, it's a gopro video shot from under someone's time trial bars and perfectly illustrates why the organisers should get rid of most of the motorbikes and fit front and rear cameras to all bikes instead. Maybe not the most profitable solution but it would certainly cut down on fuel emissions during the race, if nothing else.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1050984264950952&id=103512969698091
> 
> Hope this link works. Should do as it's the TDF Facebook page which is a public page. If not, it's a gopro video shot from under someone's time trial bars and perfectly illustrates why the organisers should get rid of most of the motorbikes and fit front and rear cameras to all bikes instead. Maybe not the most profitable solution but it would certainly cut down on fuel emissions during the race, if nothing else.



Can they transmit the gopro images live though?


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Can they transmit the gopro images live though?


I was only joking as per the comments further up the thread but in all seriousness, I reckon that if live transmissions aren't already possible, it just needs someone to put their mind to it.


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

So, I heard Alaphillipe crashed today.







No one said anything about him stopping to do a bit of bouldering though


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (15 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> So, I heard Alaphillipe crashed today.
> 
> View attachment 134982
> 
> ...



 Hope he's ok!


----------



## coffeejo (15 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> So, I heard Alaphillipe crashed today.
> 
> View attachment 134982
> 
> ...


----------



## Crackle (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Hope he's ok!


Apparently unharmed.


----------



## Bollo (15 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> So, I heard Alaphillipe crashed today.
> 
> View attachment 134982
> 
> ...


+Wow. There's overcooking a corner, and then there's leaving the hob on while you do a round-the-world cruise.


----------



## Beebo (15 Jul 2016)

Anyone else enjoying the unintended innuendo in this tweet?



Greg Henderson

Greghenderson1

I was doing 50kph and @RohanDennis came past me and nearly sucked my helmet off. So fast. I have no idea how they do it. #impressed.

11:22 a.m. - 15 July 2016


----------



## suzeworld (15 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Listen to some people loudly booing Froome today as he rides past them in the TT.


yeah, I heard that 

knuckle-draggers ...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> https://twitter.com/Greghenderson1
> RohanDennis came past me and nearly sucked my helmet off.





suzeworld said:


> knuckle-draggers ...



Knuckle-shuffle surely?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (15 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Indeed, but it must be a worry for the race organisers at both this and other events.



http://velonews.competitor.com/2016...ng-and-terrorism-how-vulnerable-are-we_391234

A piece on exactly this topic from earlier this year.


----------



## Nomadski (16 Jul 2016)

Sorry if this was picked up earlier in the thread. 

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-260570?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Can they transmit the gopro images live though?



They seem to be able to get tiny cameras from MotoGP to broadcast live. Why can't they get something similar for le Tour

Edit: I appreciate the live stuff for MotoGP is on a closed circuit. But I don't see how they can't get cameras to work in the last 5km and broadcast live footage.


----------



## Beebo (16 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> They seem to be able to get tiny cameras from MotoGP to broadcast live. Why can't they get something similar for le Tour
> 
> Edit: I appreciate the live stuff for MotoGP is on a closed circuit. But I don't see how they can't get cameras to work in the last 5km and broadcast live footage.


I guess they can be a bit heavier on a motorbike, even 1kg is unlikely to be felt, and they may even take power from the engine?
On a bike the unit would have to be very light and the battery would have to last the full distance.


----------



## psmiffy (16 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> and the battery would have to last the full distance



hub Dynamo's would be the answer - or would that lead to complications with the testing for mechanical doping


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jul 2016)

Inrng's preview for today
http://inrng.com/2016/07/tour-de-france-stage-14-preview-villars-les-dombes/


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Some of the shots from GoPros have been great, but the disadvantage with broadcasting entirely from the bike mounted cameras is the shot is essentially fixed and it can also be difficult to tell what's going on. The shot @coffeejo posted (View: https://www.facebook.com/letour/videos/1050984264950952/) is great, but it tells you pretty much nothing about what's going on in the race. Were it a normal stage and a rider in the group, you'd just see a bunch of bikes around; it can be difficult to get a feel of relative positioning, who's making what move, and so on. A shot from the bike at the front of the group, you'd have no idea how that rider himself was doing or whether another rider was attacking from the rear or side, obscured by other bikes close to camera. You need the shots from outside the group, the ability to cut to wide shots or close ups and so on to tell the story.

I can't help feeling it's also a bit of a red herring, in that (from what I've seen / can work out) the number of TV motos is relatively few, far outnumbered by team vehicles, official vehicles (regulators), neutral service, gendarmerie and particularly photojournalist and print press bikes.

For the print press, taking stills from GoPro footage might be possible, though at 1080p there'd be questions of resolution and quality for many uses (4K might work); but again, they probably wouldn't tell the story in a way the press would want. For example, if Froome put in a devastating attack, the shot they would want would be a strong looking Froome jumping off a group of struggling riders. You'd only get that from a position away from the group; if the camera were fitted to one of the bikes, a crucial part of the story they were trying to tell with the photo would not be in shot.

There are two separate issues here, both of which have been brewing for a while and which perhaps came together on Thursday; crowd control on popular parts of stages, particularly the famous mountain climbs, and the behaviour and regulation of certain elements of the convoy. We still don't know whether any issue with poor moto behaviour lead to the accident. Whatever the root cause on Thursday, both these issues should be addressable or enforceable fairly straightforwardly, probably within existing structures and techniques.

It's also worth remembering that although the focus is on motos, it's cars as well - remember the Flecha - Hoogerland accident on the 2011 Tour, Girdlestone hitting his own team car, or the mechanic getting hit by an Ettixx car on this year's Tour of Flanders, among others?


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> They seem to be able to get tiny cameras from MotoGP to broadcast live. Why can't they get something similar for le Tour





Beebo said:


> I guess they can be a bit heavier on a motorbike, even 1kg is unlikely to be felt, and they may even take power from the engine?
> On a bike the unit would have to be very light and the battery would have to last the full distance.



It might not have to last the distance, have it set to 'sleep' and then activate when signal from a TV truck/receiver where the footage would be wanted. Weight is probably the biggest issue, which is a shame really, but it would be good to know how much the telemetry sticks and cameras Velon force the riders to place on the bikes weigh.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Some of the shots from GoPros have been great, but the disadvantage with broadcasting entirely from the bike mounted cameras is the shot is essentially fixed and it can also be difficult to tell what's going on. The shot @coffeejo posted (View: https://www.facebook.com/letour/videos/1050984264950952/) is great, but it tells you pretty much nothing about what's going on in the race. Were it a normal stage and a rider in the group, you'd just see a bunch of bikes around; it can be difficult to get a feel of relative positioning, who's making what move, and so on. A shot from the bike at the front of the group, you'd have no idea how that rider himself was doing or whether another rider was attacking from the rear or side, obscured by other bikes close to camera. You need the shots from outside the group, the ability to cut to wide shots or close ups and so on to tell the story.
> 
> I can't help feeling it's also a bit of a red herring, in that (from what I've seen / can work out) the number of TV motos is relatively few, far outnumbered by team vehicles, official vehicles (regulators), neutral service, gendarmerie and particularly photojournalist and print press bikes.
> 
> ...


Well if you want to be so logical about it! More on-bike footage then, especially for the descents.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> it would be good to know how much the telemetry sticks and cameras Velon force the riders to place on the bikes weigh.



The Hikob Fox telemetry package - not quite the same as the one used on the bikes - is about 25g. The GoPro Hero4 Session is 74g. Other GoPros are up to about 125g


----------



## 400bhp (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Listen to some people loudly booing Froome today as he rides past them in the TT.



I'm never sure it's people booing or people shouting frooooome?


----------



## EnPassant (16 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It might not have to last the distance, have it set to 'sleep' and then activate when signal from a TV truck/receiver where the footage would be wanted. Weight is probably the biggest issue, which is a shame really, but it would be good to know how much the telemetry sticks and cameras Velon force the riders to place on the bikes weigh.


I have wondered about this, but it seems to me they've got at least kilo to play with if they want to, I read recently somewhere that bikes can be made a good deal lighter than the uci minimum limit of 6.8 kg and still be perfectly safe (and in fact are). This wouldn't however address the issue of them not producing the pictures we want to see due to the fixed positioning, I'm thinking of current uses like motorsport where they use them, but it's minimal, most coverage is still from human controlled offboard cameras with the director only cutting to onboard occasionally. 
I still feel the spectator control is a bigger issue in this case, without the lunatic fringe amongst them this incident wouldn't have occurred. Others accidents of course may still have.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> I'm never sure it's people booing or people shouting frooooome?


Many years ago I went to watch the New York Mets baseball team. One player stepped up and the crowd all started booing. I asked my friend what was going on. "That's Mookie Wilson, they're not booing, they're mooing."


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> I'm never sure it's people booing or people shouting frooooome?


Definitely not frooming. Actually makes me like him more as other than the odd left hook, he's not nasty or bitter in return.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Well if you want to be so logical about it! More on-bike footage then, especially for the descents.



Sorry @coffeejo I'll try not to be rational and sensible in future.


----------



## Slaav (16 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Many years ago I went to watch the New York Mets baseball team. One player stepped up and the crowd all started booing. I asked my friend what was going on. "That's Mookie Wilson, they're not booing, they're mooing."



Luke Donald also? 

"Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuke"

Has to be explained every time


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2016)

Just to clarify a point, on-bike footage is utter pish.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just to clarify a point, on-bike footage is utter pish.


Horses for courses and all that.


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

headwind keeping everything slow and together


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just to clarify a point, on-bike footage is utter pish.



Not sure why we should respect your opinion, given you totally and utterly let us down about your 1955 Swiss championship.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

I really wish they'd be a quicker about switching to a different camera when they stop at the side of the road. Especially when it's a headwind.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I really wish they'd be a quicker about switching to a different camera when they stop at the side of the road. Especially when it's a headwind.



They do it deliberately to see what embarrassed excuses the commentators come up with.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

That Citroen C1 ad where the guy gets into the poster at the bus stop and drives the car away, while the girl looks on amazed...

...he could at least have given her a lift instead of just driving off looking smug.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They do it deliberately to see what embarrassed excuses the commentators come up with.


And now they're in the shower in the ad breaks!


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That Citroen C1 ad where the guy gets into the poster at the bus stop and drives the car away, while the girl looks on amazed...
> 
> ...he could at least have given her a lift instead of just driving off looking smug.


Does she become an accessory to theft by not reporting him?


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> And now they're in the shower in the ad breaks!



Perverts.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2016)

Are there many other members of the horse family other than horses?


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Are there many other members of the horse family other than horses?


Zebras


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2016)

Donkeys


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2016)

Mules


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2016)

Asses


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

Brailsfords


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Does she become an accessory to theft by not reporting him?



"Well officer, it was like this. He stepped into the poster and then just drove the picture of the car away"

"Is there someone we can call for you, miss? Parent, carer, psychiatrist?"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2016)

Tapirs and Rhinocerusesii as well.

I'll need to go and tell @millarmind


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Tapirs and Rhinocerusesii as well.
> 
> I'll need to go and tell @millarmind


Is it SRAM that do the double tapir gears?


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Thursday, 15 pages of Froome legging it up the mountain.

Today, 2 pages of nonsense about adverts and equine varieties (and @Marmion 's been at Wikipedia)

You can tell it's a sprint stage.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Thursday, 15 pages of Froome legging it up the mountain.
> 
> Today, 2 pages of nonsense about adverts and equine varieties (and @Marmion 's been at Wikipedia)
> 
> You can tell it's a sprint stage.


Its also my first chance to sit in front of the telly and slob out all tour. I demand to be entertained.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Its also my first chance to sit in front of the telly and slob out all tour. I demand to be entertained.



That won't happen for at least another hour.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Ned Boulting said:


> When cycling stands in the front window and shows off what it's got.



He's thinking of Dumoulin in the shower.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That won't happen for at least another hour.


Stamps foot in frustration and goes off to google members of the genus Equus


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Stamps foot in frustration and goes off to google members of the genus Equus



@Marmion 's already done that (the googling I mean, no idea about the foot stamping).


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Benedetti breezed that sprint.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> He's thinking of Dumoulin in the shower.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Will Sagan be riding in Rio?


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Will Sagan be riding in Rio?



Yes, but not what you'd expect - he's going back to his roots and doing the cross country MTB


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Yes, but not what you'd expect - he's going back to his roots and doing the cross country MTB


Don't know why but that's made me smile.


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I'll need to go and tell @millarmind


I see you have. So far he hasn't added to his list though.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I see you have. So far he hasn't added to his list though.


Too busy philosophising about castles.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> It does make me wonder if the tour will be a furure target, but only time will tell I guess.



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ntinue-despite-deadly-attacks-in-nice-cycling


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Iconic sunflower shot!


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I see you have. So far he hasn't added to his list though.



He'll probably return to it in a few days, as he did with cliffs.


----------



## Dogtrousers (16 Jul 2016)

It seems that Froome ungraciously turned down the offer of a bike from a helpful bystander.





Yes, I'm bored.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

We've moved on from horses to pelicans.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> We've moved on from horses to pelicans.



A wonderful bird is the pelican


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2016)

Flamingos! They don't need Millar and Boulting in the box today, they need Chris Packham.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> It seems that Froome ungraciously turned down the offer of a bike from a helpful bystander.



Wiggins still looking more focused than Froome even though he's not competing...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Flamingos! They don't need Millar and Boulting in the box today, they need Chris Packham.



Micheala Strachan would be better


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Micheala Strachan would be better


If we're going to do this properly, we need the real Sir David.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (16 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> If we're going to do this properly, we need the real Sir David.


Del boy knows nowt about wildlife.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (16 Jul 2016)

I expected the breakaway to have been swallowed up miles back.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

No need, I suppose.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

And they're under the Flamme Rouge...


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Kittel complained about Cav. Will it stand?


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

oooh, that could be contested.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

I don't know, looked to me as though they both veered a bit but not enough to be penalised.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Find out after the break.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Sagan thereabouts again. 3rd or 4th? Kristoff second, it looked.


----------



## psmiffy (16 Jul 2016)

I think Kittel was done as whathisname said - kittel more annoyed that Cavendish had played him


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> I think Kittel was done as whathisname said - kittel more annoyed that Cavendish had played him


Yep, Kittel was already beaten.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

Millar certainly thinks so. Emphatically.


----------



## Crackle (16 Jul 2016)

Pleased to see Degenkolb back challenging.


----------



## smutchin (16 Jul 2016)

Cav giving it the full Abdoujaparov there. Can't see them taking it off him though. Etixx cocked it up again.


----------



## psmiffy (16 Jul 2016)

why doesnt the lead out man just stay where he is and block Cav rather than peeling off dramatically


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Pleased to see Degenkolb back challenging.



Yes, absolutely.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> why doesnt the lead out man just stay where he is and block Cav rather than peeling off dramatically



Because the leadout man's used all his energy up leading out and peels off as he's flagging and slowing down. He'd block everyone including his own man, not to mention that he'd be penalised for it.


----------



## HF2300 (16 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Cav giving it the full Abdoujaparov there. Can't see them taking it off him though. Etixx cocked it up again.



After a few years of highly organised leadout trains, this really seems to be the year of the opportunist. Don't know if Lotto Soudal and Ettixx are over-thinking things, but they're not getting those leadouts right.


----------



## jarlrmai (16 Jul 2016)

I see ITV have ended coverage again, it seems monster carp will not be kept waiting.


----------



## coffeejo (16 Jul 2016)

The Cycling News Tour Tracker app says that Pinot will also miss the Olympics.


----------



## ManiaMuse (16 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> why doesnt the lead out man just stay where he is and block Cav rather than peeling off dramatically


Because they are sprinting at 100% effort in the redzone towards a finish line that is about 250-300 metres from the actual finish line. 

Once they conk out then they are suddenly going backwards relative to the rest of the sprinters and if they did what you suggested then they would be liable to taking out not only Cavendish but potentially everyone else behind them at the speeds they are going. Not a good way to make friends in the peloton!

Sometimes there isn't enough room to swing out because the finish isn't wide enough or there are multiple trains and they just stop pedaling and try to keep as straight a line as possible. But if there is room to easily get out of the way then they might as well do it.


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2016)

Another win from Cav. Maybe le Fevre will suggest Kittel should have some track time to improve his sprint


----------



## Mr Celine (16 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> I see ITV have ended coverage again, it seems monster _crap _will not be kept waiting.



FTFY


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2016)

Horse family, birds with big beaks (without anyone mentioning Barbra Streisand, until I went and mentioned her...) and carp. What an education this stage has been.


----------



## SWSteve (16 Jul 2016)

I'm looking forward to the stage tomorrow to learn about some new fauna


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (16 Jul 2016)

Ned Boulting has liked my #horsefamily tweet, so I am hopeful that tomorrow's stage commentary may include so updated facts - donkeys, tapirs, rhinos...and I also chucked in whales. Go me!! Listen out...


----------



## rich p (16 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> What an education this stage has been


Well, it's taught me a lesson...

© Ken Dodd


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Well, it's taught me a lesson...
> 
> © Ken Dodd


I'd never clocked him as part of the horse genus before but those teeth, now you come to mention it.....


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2016)

They keep on talking about Porte helping his old mucka Froome. What about Kittel leading out Cav - no one seems to talk about that.


----------



## screenman (17 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> They keep on talking about Porte helping his old mucka Froome. What about Kittel leading out Cav - no one seems to talk about that.



“And he now has the best lead-out in the world, which since the beginning of this Tour, has been Marcel Kittel,” Lefevere said.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...rk-cavendish-apart-261084#mySBfmWIX07TzEcV.99


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2016)

Thanks


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Lead out trains are all well and good...
...Cav's at HTC and Cipo's at Saeco for instance but it's much more fun for the spectators to see Cav winning by craft. Robbie MacEwan was always good value for this style too.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Did anyone see the incident shown on ITV4 where Froome exercised his yellow jersey authority to slow the peloton to allow his fallen Sky team to catch up?
Not his finest hour, IMHO.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Did anyone see the incident shown on ITV4 where Froome exercised his yellow jersey authority to slow the peloton to allow his fallen Sky team to catch up?
> Not his finest hour, IMHO.


I agree though I don't think it's as big a deal as some are making it out to be since he asked the others in the peloton first...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I agree though I don't think it's as big a deal as some are making it out to be since he asked the others in the peloton first...


ValvPiti didn't look too happy though did he!!!!!


----------



## Shadow (17 Jul 2016)

Less than one hour before I sit down on the sofa for a few hours of what should be a great stage to _watch_.

Informed opinion seems to think a quality breakaway will stick. Quite happy for this to happen and yet I think the Dawg will entrench his position on GC emphatically. From what we have seen, and might expect from NQ and Movistar next week, there does not appear to be anyone to challenge him this year.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now and he definitely isn't as I saw him walking his dogs on the beach this morning. I thought it odd yesterday that David Millar was standing in?


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Ned Boulting has liked my #horsefamily tweet, so I am hopeful that tomorrow's stage commentary may include so updated facts - donkeys, tapirs, rhinos...and I also chucked in whales. Go me!! Listen out...


You couldn't chuck a whale, they're too heavy.


----------



## Phaeton (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now and he definitely isn't as I saw him walking his dogs on the beach this morning. I thought it odd yesterday that David Millar was standing in?


Why did you not just go up & ask, the mystery would then be solved.


----------



## Phaeton (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Did anyone see the incident shown on ITV4 where Froome exercised his yellow jersey authority to slow the peloton to allow his fallen Sky team to catch up?
> Not his finest hour, IMHO.


Not quite a blatant as Quintana holding onto the motorbike going up hill


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> Informed opinion seems to think a quality breakaway will stick..



Ealry breakaway that stays away, things settle down, then GC fights on the last couple of climbs? If a quality break doesn't threaten GC and GC don't decide they want mountain points it'd probably stick. There are a couple of quite fiendish high speed descents as well, so the Nibalis etc. might well figure - and GC could be shaken up if they're a bit careless...


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now and he definitely isn't as I saw him walking his dogs on the beach this morning. I thought it odd yesterday that David Millar was standing in?



Maybe he's got commitments back here this week (no-one to look after the dogs?). Shame as he's excellent in that role (the expert summariser, not the dog walking).


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> rich p said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone see the incident shown on ITV4 where Froome exercised his yellow jersey authority to slow the peloton to allow his fallen Sky team to catch up?
> ...



As @coffeejo says, not sure it's a big deal. I don't know if he was using the authority of the yellow jersey to slow it down, just asking everyone's agreement to let up for a bit (but then, I didn't hear any audio so I don't know what was said). I don't think they'd have done it if they hadn't wanted to - and it's arguable that it was in other teams' interest as well, or at least they didn't lose out by slowing down.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Apparently there was a crash behind the peloton yesterday. Jens Debusschere and Matti Breschel abandoned.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> As @coffeejo says, not sure it's a big deal. I don't know if he was using the authority of the yellow jersey to slow it down, just asking everyone's agreement to let up for a bit (but then, I didn't hear any audio so I don't know what was said). I don't think they'd have done it if they hadn't wanted to - and it's arguable that it was in other teams' interest as well, or at least they didn't lose out by slowing down.


Maybe not a big deal but he was using the yellow jersey to allow his team to catch up. I don't think it's entirely ethical.
If Quintana had more nous, Movistar maybe should have put the pedal down after the 3 Sky guys fell.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now and he definitely isn't as I saw him walking his dogs on the beach this morning. I thought it odd yesterday that David Millar was standing in?



Had to fly back for a family emergency, apparently.


----------



## Shadow (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now


Flown home for a family emergency, according to Gary.

edit: HF just beat me to it - consequence of not having laptop by tv!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Anyone know why Chris Boardman is not at the Tour now and he definitely isn't as I saw him walking his dogs on the beach this morning. I thought it odd yesterday that David Millar was standing in?


Imlach just announced that Boardman was called home for an emergency.


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Maybe not a big deal but he was using the yellow jersey to allow his team to catch up. I don't think it's entirely ethical.
> If Quintana had more nous, Movistar maybe should have put the pedal down after the 3 Sky guys fell.



You could applaud Quintana and co. of good sportsmanship - something you don't see much of in sport these days.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Had to fly back for a family emergency, apparently.


That was kind of the first thing which went through my head when I saw him, which is why I didn't ask him. Hopefully nothing too serious.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> You could applaud Quintana and co. of good sportsmanship - something you don't see much of in sport these days.


You could but it was a racing incident of which he'd have been entitled to take advantage of IMO. However, I don't really give much of a toss, so I'll leave it there!


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> You could but it was a racing incident of which he'd have been entitled to take advantage of IMO. However, I don't really give much of a toss, so I'll leave it there!



No, let's continue discussing it futilely to no conclusion for several pages more.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> That was kind of the first thing which went through my head when I saw him, which is why I didn't ask him. Hopefully nothing too serious.



Yes. Realistically it makes no difference to him what we think, but you always want the best for someone in these situations.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Apparently Froome is surrounded by Geraint Thomas. What a surreal image.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Apparently Froome is surrounded by Geraint Thomas. What a surreal image.


CK or NB?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

I have to attend my darling daughter's 35th birthday bbq this afternoon. 
What bad planning of me not to have thought about this sort of fiasco, 35 years and 9 months ago!


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> CK or NB?



NB


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I have to attend my darling daughter's 35th birthday bbq this afternoon.
> What bad planning of me not to have thought about this sort of fiasco, 35 years and 9 months ago!



Sloppy. Take the laptop and make sure their WiFi is on.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I have to attend my darling daughter's 35th birthday bbq this afternoon.
> What bad planning of me not to have thought about this sort of fiasco, 35 years and 9 months ago!


I recommend a headache, requiring you to lie on the sofa while everyone else is outside.


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Sloppy. Take the laptop and make sure their WiFi is on.


It's in a local park so I think it will be Likely Lad style result avoidance till I get home later.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> It's in a local park so I think it will be Likely Lad style result avoidance till I get home later.


I recommend a headache, requiring you to stay at home...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I recommend a headache, requiring you to stay at home...


You've not met my daughter, have you Jo...


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Understatement of the century by Millar, describing the cold fear that grips your heart and threatens to loosen your bowels when you think your approach to a corner on a descent is too fast as "the yips".


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> It's in a local park so I think it will be Likely Lad style result avoidance till I get home later.



Good data plan?


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> You've not met my daughter, have you Jo...


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Nibali group's taken 30 seconds + off the yellow jersey group already.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Nibali group's taken 30 seconds + off the yellow jersey group already.


Froome, Sagan and Yates set off to chase them down but didn't stay out for long.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Lead out trains are all well and good...
> ...Cav's at HTC and Cipo's at Saeco for instance but it's much more fun for the spectators to see Cav winning by craft. Robbie MacEwan was always good value for this style too.



There's something quite majestic about seeing a perfectly coordinated leadout train in full flight though - 2009 when Cav and Renshaw got the 1-2 on the Champs-Elysees was pure poetry.

I think yesterday's stage demonstrates just how hard it is to get it right - when Etixx hit the front with five riders in formation and less than 2km to go, they should have had the race sewn up but Vermote is no Bernie Eisel. And Tony Martin clearly isn't the force he once was. 

I just like seeing Cav win however he goes about it, tbh.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> ValvPiti didn't look too happy though did he!!!!!



Boo-hoo. Poor Alejandro.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

A refuge for leopards?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> A refuge for leopards?


Well spotted...
p.s. WTF are you on about?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Well spotted...
> p.s. WTF are you on about?


I wasn't paying attention, Ned mentioned a refuge for leopards and something to do with monks (probably); the entire population of France seems to have been monks at some point in time.


----------



## Louch (17 Jul 2016)

Lepers , or as we know them up here Conservative MP's


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I wasn't paying attention, Ned mentioned a refuge for leopards and something to do with monks (probably); the entire population of France seems to have been monks at some point in time.


Send Ned a tweet about Saint Damien saving all the Leopards in France.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Leprosy surely has to be one of the most misunderstood diseases in human history.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

I do like the people Ned (nearly) interviews during the stage, really informative stuff.


----------



## Louch (17 Jul 2016)

Tell us more while the race is quiet


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Leprosy surely has to be one of the most misunderstood diseases in human history.


Indeed, and clearly still is by @Marmion ...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

So Vichot, Voeckler, Pinot, Rolland...
...une longue liste of French under-achievers?


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Talking of idiot spectators...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spectator-sparks-high-speed-crash-at-the-tour-of-qinghai-lake/


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2016)

There are plenty of high quality riders in this break. Alaphilippe is there, whose definitely one for the future, and could be one for today. Most of my favourites begin with a 'P' today - Plaza, Pauwels, Pantano... but if NIbali is still up there when they hit the last summit, he's probably the best descender of the group. I'd love to see Grmay get his first ever stage win, but I think it's unlikely...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> There are plenty of high quality riders in this break. Alaphilippe is there, whose definitely one for the future, and could be one for today. Most of my favourites begin with a 'P' today - Plaza, Pauwels, Pantano... but if NIbali is still up there when they hit the last summit, he's probably the best descender of the group. I'd love to see Grmay get his first ever stage win, but I think it's unlikely...


Not to forget...
...Polanc ( didn't he win a mtn stage in the Giro?) andPozzovivo


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

They're milking it a bit...


----------



## rich p (17 Jul 2016)

Got to love those people who go to so much trouble for a few seconds of TV exposure - the milked cow was quality nonsense!


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Got to love those people who go to so much trouble for a few seconds of TV exposure - the milked cow was quality nonsense!


The one about Nice yesterday was really quite moving. (Never thought I'd say that about silage bales.)


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Send Ned a tweet about Saint Damien saving all the Leopards in France.


An Omen if ever there was one...


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2016)

Tom Dumoulin is off! Him and Nibbles to power it out for the stage?

*fingers crossed considering my flare pick for the punditry*


----------



## brommers (17 Jul 2016)

We've got a good race on now


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> We've got a good race on now


I'm sure the sprinters are thrilled


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2016)

It's nice of Nibali to be playing 'Super Domestique' for Aru by going up the road to support him later in the stage


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> It's nice of Nibali to be playing 'Super Domestique' for Aru by going up the road to support him later in the stage



Yeh, he's all heart.


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2016)

When Giant Sunwed exists, will we have terrible adverts with them going on holiday?


----------



## Dogtrousers (17 Jul 2016)

Yaaaay!! They mentioned Pozzovivo The most inert of my fantasy team. He is there! Hurrah!

Unfortunately what they said was "Pozzovivo's been distanced". Still. It's a start.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

When did the Dumoulin group get brought back? MIssed that. During the ad break?


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Nibali off the back now


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

Some of the punditry flair picks in the lead group


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Alaphilippe needs to catch them on the descent now


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Alaphilippe needs to catch them on the descent now


He's crashed


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Alaphilippe needs to catch them on the descent now



Obviously tried too hard. Just announced he's crashed.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

Again!

Zakarin must have been caught out by that as he's gone off the front.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (17 Jul 2016)

Looks like it might have been a mechanical rather than a crash


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

Dammit, I thought I had both Majka and Pantano in the punditry today but I just checked and for some reason I put down the wrong Colombian - I'm sure I meant to put Pantano but for some reason I put Anacona instead. Doh!


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

The Wrong Colombian sounds like a Graham Greene novel


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Don't want to dig over old ground but I wonder if they'll do more circuit stages, or at least the end of a stage like today, in an effort to increase crowd control?


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Dammit, I thought I had both Majka and Pantano in the punditry today but I just checked and for some reason I put down the wrong Colombian - I'm sure I meant to put Pantano but for some reason I put Anacona instead. Doh!



Hehe. I put Pantano down. And Pauwels. The only problem is that I picked Gallopin as my wild card winner, and he's nowhere. Should have stuck with my original thought of Majka and I'd have 3 of the current top 6...


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

This loop is playing havoc with the tracker. Currently showing the whole field except Thomas ahead of the yellow jersey.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

I couldn't decide between Pauwels and Majka in the punditry and went for Pauwels. My bad.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> This loop is playing havoc with the tracker. Currently showing the whole field except Thomas ahead of the yellow jersey.


It's playing havoc with my brain. They've gone under the Flamme Rouge and we've gone for an ad break.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> It's playing havoc with my brain. They've gone under the Flamme Rouge and we've gone for an ad break.



Tracker now showing the race leaders as the second group of stragglers. Majka et al. have apparently been abducted by aliens.

Silly time to have an ad break, they're normally quite good at not doing that.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

I think ITV has missed every significant moment today. Where did Astana go.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

I'd guess Sky turned the wick up, brought Aru back and cracked Astana in the process, but frankly who knows?


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

The helicopter footage at 16.8kms to go is amazing.


----------



## Slaav (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I'd guess Sky turned the wick up, brought Aru back and cracked Astana in the process, but frankly who knows?



Good point! One minute there were 3 of them, then Aru attacked? Now where are any of them? Is the radio commentary any use? Albeit on a slight delay...


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Amazing road. Bluddy steep, mind.


----------



## philk56 (17 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think ITV has missed every significant moment today. Where did Astana go.


Yes, they also missed Zakarin having a mechanical and still don't seem to know what happened!


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Bardet's glasses will make a nice prize for a spectator.


----------



## Louch (17 Jul 2016)

Think the two cars behind him left them in pieces


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

If I overcooked a corner on a descent like Majke, I wouldn't be hugging the frame for the rest of it.


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Don't know if Majka might have just suckered Pantano.

Edit - no, he has taken the front again


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Don't know if Majka might have just suckered Pantano.
> 
> Edit - no, he has taken the front again



Has now.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Nope, Pantano got one over on Majke!


----------



## HF2300 (17 Jul 2016)

Pantano! Thought Majka had him there.


----------



## philk56 (17 Jul 2016)

Thought he'd started celebrating too soon but goid win. Great catch up on the descent.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (17 Jul 2016)

Pantano! Viva Colombia!


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Hehe. I put Pantano down. And Pauwels. The only problem is that I picked Gallopin as my wild card winner, and he's nowhere. Should have stuck with my original thought of Majka and I'd have 3 of the current top 6...



I thought Majka was too obvious not to pick - he was always going to be in the break, and it seemed a likely day for the break to stay away. 

Gallopin was a more sensible pick than my third choice, Rui Costa - he's been totally anonymous so far and stayed true to form again today.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Great catch up on the descent.



The speed he came past the moto was mad.

Not a bad sprint finish too. Majka got the tactics right but Pantano had the power.


----------



## 400bhp (17 Jul 2016)

Go Jarlinson, the man with the best first name in the Tour


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

400bhp said:


> Go Jarlinson, the man with the best first name in the Tour


He should team up with Winner Anacona.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Does anyone else have to sing the line "Werewolves of London" every time his name is mentioned?


No, but I did begin to hum a Crowded House song after Millar pronounced Henau.


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I thought Majka was too obvious not to pick - he was always going to be in the break, and it seemed a likely day for the break to stay away.
> 
> Gallopin was a more sensible pick than my third choice, Rui Costa - he's been totally anonymous so far and stayed true to form again today.




Almost went for Rui Costa thinking he might hit the break for the KOM points... Obviously wrong


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (17 Jul 2016)

Har de har har to Majka, your plan to nobble Pantano didn't work!


----------



## Louch (17 Jul 2016)

Boardman just announced on twitter that he left the tour as his mum was knocked down and killed when cycling. Just horrific


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (17 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Boardman just announced on twitter that he left the tour as his mum was knocked down and killed when cycling. Just horrific



My commiserations to him


----------



## SWSteve (17 Jul 2016)

I wonder when Quintana is hoping to launch an attack. 3 mountain stages left, as well as that TT... can he pull it off?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Boardman just announced on twitter that he left the tour as his mum was knocked down and killed when cycling. Just horrific


Terrible


----------



## Dayvo (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Bardet's glasses will make a nice prize for a spectator.



Yeah, right!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (17 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Yeah, right!
> 
> View attachment 135218



It was possibly trying to escape and not be seen with an AG2R kit any longer


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Boardman just announced on twitter that he left the tour as his mum was knocked down and killed when cycling. Just horrific


Oh no, that's awful.


----------



## philk56 (17 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Boardman just announced on twitter that he left the tour as his mum was knocked down and killed when cycling. Just horrific


Awful news.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (17 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Awful news.


Terrible terrible news.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

That's really grim news.


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Terrible terrible news.


What a beautiful tribute.


----------



## summerdays (17 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Terrible terrible news.


A moving tribute to his Mum but so sad that he needed to write it in such circumstances.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

Sad news indeed.


----------



## DCLane (17 Jul 2016)

RIP to Mrs Boardman


----------



## shouldbeinbed (17 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Terrible terrible news.


Wonderful words. RIP and deepest condolences


----------



## coffeejo (17 Jul 2016)

I was wondering how ITV would handle it. Really well, as it turns out. If appearances are anything to go by, Chris has got a good team around him.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (17 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I was wondering how ITV would handle it. Really well, as it turns out. If appearances are anything to go by, Chris has got a good team around him.



Yep, they had the statement posted earlier about the skipping and so on at the end of the TdF Highlights programme. No speaking, just it on the screen against a background of presumably landscape shots from today's stage and music.


----------



## Dave Davenport (17 Jul 2016)

I really like Chris B and I've a feeling his mum played a significant part in making him the man he his, it's an often overused word but i think tragic is apt in the circumstances.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I really like Chris B and I've a feeling his mum played a significant part in making him the man he his,



Definitely. This much is very clear from his autobiography which I read recently. His tribute to his mum is largely drawn from the stuff about his parents in the book. I guess he didn't imagine he'd be putting his words to this purpose so soon after writing them.


----------



## Mike_P (17 Jul 2016)

Well despite advert break blunders this afternoon they got the highlights package right by ending with Chris Bs tweet. A tragic event.


----------



## Crackle (17 Jul 2016)

I watched the highlights, good tribute.

Watching the interviews with Yates, Martin, Froome and Mollema, what I want to know is when did 'yeh!' become a pause; it's irritating.


----------



## suzeworld (17 Jul 2016)

So sad.
I just watched the end of the highlights show tonight with tears streaming down my face - Chris's tribute was very moving.

I use the road where the collision happened, it is certainly not one of the most dangerous in North Wales - but obviously danger can lurk anywhere when you are out on your bike. As we know. 
A great blow to a great family.


----------



## gavroche (17 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I wonder when Quintana is hoping to launch an attack. 3 mountain stages left, as well as that TT... can he pull it off?


No. He has done nothing to threaten Froome so far and I don't think he is strong enough to do anything about it. Maybe he will prove me wrong but I doubt it very much.


----------



## jarlrmai (17 Jul 2016)

Movistar are not strong enough to attack Sky and no other team seems to care.


----------



## 400bhp (17 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Movistar are not strong enough to attack Sky and no other team seems to care.



Flecha pointed out that Sky are looking tired and I agree. They struggled towards the end today.

Movistar had a few men up the road.


----------



## gavroche (17 Jul 2016)

Very sad news about Chris Boardman. It is always sad to lose your mum, or dad, but as a result of an accident is worse. Condolences to all his family.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

It didn't look to me like Poels was tiring. He's a beast!


----------



## Crandoggler (17 Jul 2016)

Just reeled everyone in, as per usual.


----------



## smutchin (17 Jul 2016)

The way they closed down Bardet's attack, catching him at the summit, was particularly cruel and must have been very demoralising for him.

Although it looked like Bardet and Valverde's pressure on the descent did for Nieve, so maybe there's hope there.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Jul 2016)

l'Equipe has spoken


----------



## Foghat (18 Jul 2016)

Reichenbach seems to do most of his descending on the hoods - even the technical descents of the Grand Colombier taken full on today. No wonder he's no good at it. One expects such ignorance and foolishness from novices on their first sportives, but not from Tour de France professionals. He managed to find the drops on the flat run-in to the finish, so goodness knows what the hell was going on in his brain on the descents.


----------



## Booyaa (18 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> No. He has done nothing to threaten Froome so far and I don't think he is strong enough to do anything about it. Maybe he will prove me wrong but I doubt it very much.


It doesn't look like it. I don't think there is anyone to challenge Froome now, it's going to be another procession to Paris with the odd bit of excitement but nothing at the top of the standings.


----------



## suzeworld (18 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> l'Equipe has spoken


Ooohhh ... 
Where did you get this from? 
I have tried,without success, to BUY L'Equipe at home .. I love reading it when we are lucky enough to be over there during the last week of the tour ...


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> You could but it was a racing incident of which he'd have been entitled to take advantage of IMO. However, I don't really give much of a toss, so I'll leave it there!


Bit dodgy if the second- place rider could gain an advantage from sending his teammate to crash into two of the leader's teammates, though. It'd make racing as much of a farce as if you let the crowd block the road with impunity


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Bit dodgy if the second- place rider could gain an advantage from sending his teammate to crash into two of the leader's teammates, though. It'd make racing as much of a farce as if you let the crowd block the road with impunity


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

There was an article on cycling news ( http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/do-movistar-think-they-can-win-the-tour-de-france ) which basically says Movistar don't know what to do. 

The fight for the podium looks exciting, let's see how well Yates can fight off Valverde


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Ooohhh ...
> Where did you get this from?
> I have tried,without success, to BUY L'Equipe at home .. I love reading it when we are lucky enough to be over there during the last week of the tour ...


There are a couple of articles here that follow the same line: http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> There was an article on cycling news ( http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/do-movistar-think-they-can-win-the-tour-de-france ) which basically says Movistar don't know what to do.



Quintana can take a lot of blame for that personally. He has failed both tactically and in performance. The way he's going, it would be no surprise if he doesn't finish on the podium. He could even fall behind Bardet and Porte.


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Quintana can take a lot of blame for that personally. He has failed both tactically and in performance. The way he's going, it would be no surprise if he doesn't finish on the podium. He could even fall behind Bardet and Porte.



I wonder how well we would be talking up Porte if it wasn't for the puncture. He has looked great on the climbs, maybe looking too much like another Sky rider at times, and I can't help but feel this could have been 'his' tour in which he placed on the podium


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Quintana can take a lot of blame for that personally. He has failed both tactically and in performance. The way he's going, it would be no surprise if he doesn't finish on the podium. He could even fall behind Bardet and Porte.


Harsh words. Coming 2nd to Froome who is a once a generation phenomenon is no disgrace or failure.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> I wonder how well we would be talking up Porte if it wasn't for the puncture.



...and the disastrous time trial.



Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Harsh words. Coming 2nd to Froome who is a once a generation phenomenon is no disgrace or failure.



He's not in second place.

By talking up Sky's strength, Unzué is deflecting attention from Quintana's lacklustre performance.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Quintana is biding his time and waiting for the right moment to mount his decisive attack. Some time next week I reckon.


I'm guessing that this is tongue-in-cheek


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> I'm guessing that this is tongue-in-cheek


Well, the Tour finishes this week...


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Quintana is biding his time and waiting for the right moment to mount his decisive attack. Some time next week I reckon.


Yep, he's going for a long break away just as they aproach Paris on Sunday.


----------



## Dogtrousers (18 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> I'm guessing that this is tongue-in-cheek


Not at all. Rumour is that Movistar are planning a lightning raid on Froome's wardrobe while he is putting his feet up after the tour.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Yep, he's going for a long break away just as they aproach Paris on Sunday


What! You mean his quitting the tour half way through the final stage and going on his hols?


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> ...and the disastrous time trial.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not over yet..


----------



## Dave Davenport (18 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> It's not over yet..


Not until the fat lady sings! (I really hope that never happens again).


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Not until the fat lady sings! (I really hope that never happens again).


She wasn't fat. Nor singing.


----------



## Hont (18 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> It's not over yet..


Indeed. Four crucial stages to come and some riders energised by blood bags reacting well to the rest day.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (18 Jul 2016)

To turn the conversation back to the stage, does anyone think Martin and Alaphilippe are going to be able to stay away for 150km? I can't see it myself. And I can't see there not being a reaction from teams with Swiss riders in them, who will be particularly motivated for today...


----------



## fimm (18 Jul 2016)

Is Alaphilppe still a danger to Yates for the white jersey?

Edit: No. He's 59' 55" down.
The only man close is Louis Meintjes at 3'03" (on Yates) - next is Warren Barguil at 16'20".


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

Alaphilippe is just still pissed off after yesterday.

You'd think BMC might be keen today.


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Direct energy are leading the chase. That'll work(!)

The German version of the Alpecin shower advert has Degenkolb coming in and Geschke in the shower and the slogan "simply better than hair falling out" which seems a rather low standard for a shampoo but maybe I don't care about baldness as much as many. Who's in the shower in the Dumoulin version?


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

The Alpecin advertising campaign seems to be based around occasionally subtly hinting that it cures baldness.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

Are all French cyclists trained to thump the handlebars from school age?


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

Looking at their team photos it looks like Roy Curvers with Dumoulin


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

Roy Curvers


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Switched over to France3 for HD. The France 3 logo has a black armband on


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

BMC take up the chase. France TV talk to the director in the car (if you've not seen it: their reporter on a moto drives up alongside the team car!) Who says that they think they've got the people who can win today and it'd be good to have a Swiss-linked win and so on.


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Jasper Stuyven gets a green hat stuck in his rear mech. It's that exciting just now.


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

Greipel sucks at picking up water bottles.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Greipel sucks at picking up water bottles.


He's got no teeth, he has to suck.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

I started watching with Ned and Dave wittering on about the capital of Switzerland and asking what the capital of Canada was.

Jeezo, I knew what it was and never once have I ever thought it was Montreal!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

A BLS* EMU in the background there....



Brig Löschberg Simplon, innit!


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Interesting interview with (didn't get his name) from Dimension Data.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Interesting interview with (didn't get his name) from Dimension Data.


Eddy Ryder(sp)

EBH to go long


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> A BLS* emu in the background there...



Was (the spirit of) Rod Hull with it?


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Interesting interview with (didn't get his name) from Dimension Data.



I like these little interviews they do in the quiet bits, they often bring out some (to my mind) interesting comments.


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I like these little interviews they do in the quiet bits, they often bring out some (to my mind) interesting comments.


Yesterday's was a classic.

"And now we've got (can't remember who) joining us from (can't remember which team). Hello, (name)."
"Beeeeeeeeeeeep"
"Right, that's it. No more interviews today."


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Was (the spirit of) Rod Hull with it?



Possibly, yes. 
It was an Electric Multiple Unit, aka an EMU.

..... The train earlier for those still in the dark.


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

There go Astana.


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Yesterday's was a classic.
> 
> "And now we've got (can't remember who) joining us from (can't remember which team). Hello, (name)."
> "Beeeeeeeeeeeep"
> "Right, that's it. No more interviews today."



Well, obviously there are exceptions.


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Well, Alaphillipe did well. Did he calm down suddenly?


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

Tony Martin is a beast.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

They've caught this early


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

Rui Costa off the front. Will he remain with such a distance to go? I don't think so, but then, what do I know?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

We are in 'Cancellara Country' apparently


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> It's not over yet..



Admirably loyalty! I will be as happy as anyone if he pulls something out of the bag but I can't see it happening.


----------



## mjr (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> We are in 'Cancellara Country' apparently


I particularly liked BBC Radio taking the opportunity of visiting Cancellara's home town as a reason to discuss motorised cheating. Nobbers. If you want to accuse him, do it and live with the libel case.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

An SBB intercity there....


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> We are in 'Cancellara Country' apparently



Well it does finish in his home city.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Rui Costa off the front. Will he remain with such a distance to go?



No, but nice to get visual confirmation that he's actually at the Tour, at least.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Well it does finish in his home city.



This being Cancellara's swansong Tour was the main reason for having a stage to Berne. Shame he won't win it though.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Well it does finish in his home city.



It was just the term

'Cancellara Country'

That tickled me.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

No country for old riders


----------



## Dogtrousers (18 Jul 2016)

Berne baby Berne


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> I started watching with Ned and Dave wittering on about the capital of Switzerland and asking what the capital of Canada was.
> 
> Jeezo, I knew what it was and never once have I ever thought it was Montreal!




Isn't it Ottawa?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Isn't it Ottawa?



Yes, but they thought it was Montreal


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

Costa caught


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

Here we go then. Eyes down, look in......


----------



## Dogtrousers (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Isn't it Ottawa?


It's not one of the obvious ones. I think it's Canberra.


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Waiting for the cobbles...


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Froome to nick a few more seconds today?


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Yes, but they thought it was Montreal



Well, they have a real mountain of regret to climb when they realise their mistake


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Vanmarcke!


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Loving this.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

Coquard let's his team down again


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

COME ON SAGAN


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Froome's starting to move up.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Cav!


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

No idea who won but that was fantastic!!!


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

photo degs or sags


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Looked like Kristoff to me.

ETA: no, it was Sags!

And a 1-2-3 in the punditry for me either way! #smug


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Cav!



?


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Sagan by a whisper.


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ?


He made it to the front(ish).


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

sags


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

Sagan!


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

Great work for Leigh Howard. Shame it wasn't EBH for the pull range of Punditry scores


----------



## SWSteve (18 Jul 2016)

BBC commentary seem to think Yates in the second group


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Well, they have a real mountain of regret to climb when they realise their mistake



Well, what they actually said was that remembering the capital of Switzerland was like remembering the capital of Canada, people think it is something else, like Montreal like they thought, but it isn't, and.... They had to look it up just to make sure it was Ottawa.


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

that was a hard old drag to the line.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ?



He got up that hill with the front group, which I thought worthy of getting excited about.


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> He made it to the front(ish).



Thought @smutchin was proclaiming him the winner, just as I was watching him giving up on the sprint. Confused me for a minute.



smutchin said:


> He got up that hill with the front group, which I thought worthy of getting excited about.



Absolutely.

Great to see Sagan bag another one; not so much the eternal second this year. Good sprint all round.


----------



## Dayvo (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> And a 1-2-3 in the punditry for me either way! #smug



You got Enger at no. 3! Bloody good guess.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Thought @smutchin was proclaiming him the winner, just as I was watching him giving up on the sprint. Confused me for a minute.



Yeah, sorry, just getting a bit too enthusiastic. 

Thought that was Bling in 3rd place too, so was getting excited about the 1-2-3 in the punditry, but I didn't see Enger and Degenkolb on the other side of the road. Nuts.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Thought that was Bling in 3rd place too, so was getting excited about the 1-2-3 in the punditry, but I didn't see Enger and Degenkolb on the other side of the road. Nuts.


I was about to burst your balloon then.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

Jensie on the punditry, Marmion will be cocker hoop with joy.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> You got Enger at no. 3! Bloody good guess.



Alas, no. Just misled by the camera angle.


----------



## Dayvo (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Alas, no. Just misled by the camera angle.



Ah, _not_ so smug, then!


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

I think Jensie forgot to pack his suncream.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> BBC commentary seem to think Yates in the second group


1st Group


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think Jensie forgot to pack his suncream.


Bright but still better than Millar's t-shirt on Saturday.


----------



## Dayvo (18 Jul 2016)

A good, modest and unassuming interview by Froome on Eurosport.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

Was there a crash in the last 3km as there didn't look like 58 riders in the sprint bunch at the finish?


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Was there a crash in the last 3km as there didn't look like 58 riders in the sprint bunch at the finish?



I don't think there were 58 riders left in the group, it all got very stretched out.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Was there a crash in the last 3km as there didn't look like 58 riders in the sprint bunch at the finish?


It may just have been the narrow winding descent to the lower roads that unbunched it all. And then the climb from the river to the old town is steep and over 150m.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

Bit of useless information. I was looking at result and the top 16 were all from different teams.


----------



## HF2300 (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, sorry, just getting a bit too enthusiastic.
> 
> Thought that was Bling in 3rd place too, so was getting excited about the 1-2-3 in the punditry, but I didn't see Enger and Degenkolb on the other side of the road. Nuts.



With the high pace of the day, plus the cobbles and that last climb I think it ended up more of a puncheur / sprinter day rather than one for the out and out sprinters.


----------



## brommers (18 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> With the high pace of the day, plus the cobbles and that last climb I think it ended up more of a puncheur / sprinter day rather than one for the out and out sprinters.


yeah Cav got quite close, looked like he couldn't find a space, then gave up the ghost, probably due to his exertions.


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2016)

Another little titbit of useless info...
Martin and Alaphilippe finished dead last after their exertions, 12m 20s down.


----------



## coffeejo (18 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Another little titbit of useless info...
> Martin and Alaphilippe finished dead last after their exertions, 12m 20s down.


And were joint winners of the combativity award.


----------



## Dayvo (18 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Another little titbit of useless info...
> Martin and Alaphilippe finished dead last after their exertions, 12m 20s down.



'The drugs don't work...'


----------



## Buddfox (18 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Looking at their team photos it looks like Roy Curvers with Dumoulin



Given away by the fact that he says "Hey, Roy" when he opens the door... :-)


----------



## rich p (18 Jul 2016)

Just looked at the next few stages after the rest day.
Ouch
Ouch
Ouch
Ouch
With increasing fatigue to play its part.
In the unlikely event that Quintana has anything in reserve, he has the terrain to prove it.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (18 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Just looked at the next few stages after the rest day.
> Ouch
> Ouch
> Ouch
> ...


Each stage leaves him fewer opportunities. He either settles for also ran or he takes the first moment that he senses Sky weakness before he goes for all or nothing. Sky ought to draw him into a spot of rashness....


----------



## jarlrmai (18 Jul 2016)

Think Sky will just bat this one out.


----------



## Crandoggler (18 Jul 2016)

For 6 I'd imagine.


----------



## smutchin (18 Jul 2016)

I'm saying Froome will hit the ball out of the park on stage 17.


----------



## Crackle (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I'm saying Froome will hit the ball out of the park on stage 17.


I was going to say 18, hard to see anyone getting close there but conceivably 17 is on too.


----------



## psmiffy (18 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I'm saying Froome will hit the ball out of the park on stage 17.



Why? - because it is an easy day apart from the kicker to Finhaut?


----------



## Slaav (19 Jul 2016)

I'm not sure he will hit it out of the park unless he is feeling absolutely 100%.

What would that take out of him with several back to back stages in the Alps?

Would it not make much more sense to let everybody attack and then just have team Sky close them down or even Froome on his own just close them down? That would be incredibly demoralising to have Froomey the automaton just relentlessly pursuing you a la Terminator?

Then on the last Alpine stage, absolutely hit it and go full retard to show how futile the attacks were? As in you did your best and it was 'pitiful' .

Going full retard too early leaves some hope for the others due to the after effects and Froome's history in wk 3 surely?

This week is (to paraphrase SCW) in the top two inches.....


----------



## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

The last week's a dead rubber. Sky will bat out the draw.


----------



## Crandoggler (19 Jul 2016)

I remember Froome looking tired during his interviews last year. This year he looks as though he hasn't even been on a ride yet. Good luck to him.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (19 Jul 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> I remember Froome looking tired during his interviews last year. This year he looks as though he hasn't even been on a ride yet. Good luck to him.


He does look pretty fresh, doesn't he? In fact, some of his earlier riding looked positively feisty. I can only remember him having to go into the red once when Quintana launched an attack last week. And, he looks alert enough to respond to a few attacks.


----------



## Venod (19 Jul 2016)

This popped up on my Facebook feed this morning.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2016)

That interview yesterday was pretty telling, a bloody hard hot day in the saddle, finishes with the top bunch. Looks fresh as a daisy 10 mins afterwards and talking about looking forward to a ride on the rest day with the lads and grabbing a coffee.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2016)

The Tour de rien de French Winners goes on into the 3rd week with still no stage winner from the host nation.
Kind of sad really.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2016)

Alaphilippe was really unlucky day before yesterday.


----------



## 400bhp (19 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> The Tour de rien de French Winners goes on into the 3rd week with still no stage winner from the host nation.
> Kind of sad really.



Nah


----------



## Shadow (19 Jul 2016)

Afnug said:


> This popped up on my Facebook feed this morning.
> 
> View attachment 135347


Cruel. But true. _Et trés drôle._


----------



## SWSteve (19 Jul 2016)

Pinarello extend their deal with Sky for 4 more years


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Pinarello extend their deal with Sky for 4 more years


I can barely recall seeing any amateur cyclist on a Pinarello but I suppose they must think the marketing works.


----------



## Venod (19 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I can barely recall seeing any amateur cyclist on a Pinarello



They are very popular up here in Yorkshire.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I can barely recall seeing any amateur cyclist on a Pinarello but I suppose they must think the marketing works.


They're probably looking further afield than Brighton, broader horizons, like Liverpool.


----------



## rich p (19 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> They're probably looking further afield than Brighton, broader horizons, like Liverpool.


I thought that all Scousers would be riding Boardmans.
Unscientifically, I reckon that about half the racing bikes I see out and about are Speshes


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2016)

Lot of Dolan, Kuota, Felt and Focus around here. If you see a Pinarello it's probably Wiggo himself.


----------



## Crandoggler (19 Jul 2016)

The entire population of middle aged men in Oxfordshire own pinarello's. I think it's a prerequisite to purchasing a house there.


----------



## Basil.B (19 Jul 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> The entire population of middle aged men in Oxfordshire own pinarello's. I think it's a prerequisite to purchasing a house there.


I'm a middle aged git and I ride a Giant TCR! 
Don't see any Pinarello's in my part of Oxfordshire.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I thought that all Scousers would be riding Boardmans.
> Unscientifically, I reckon that about half the racing bikes I see out and about are Speshes


The posh choice is Wiliers. So long as you catch it in time, it can be treated with anti-biotics though.


----------



## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Given away by the fact that he says "Hey, Roy" when he opens the door... :-)


They should subtitle the advert 



jarlrmai said:


> That interview yesterday was pretty telling, a bloody hard hot day in the saddle, finishes with the top bunch. Looks fresh as a daisy 10 mins afterwards and talking about looking forward to a ride on the rest day with the lads and grabbing a coffee.


Mind games or truth? Also, it makes me fancy riding out for a coffee but it's a bit late/hot today now so I guess I'll stay at work after lunch 



rich p said:


> Unscientifically, I reckon that about half the racing bikes I see out and about are Speshes


Far too many of those nasty things about everywhere. Lots of Giants and a few Boardmans here too, as well as some nice stuff like Condors and Bianchis.


----------



## jarlrmai (19 Jul 2016)

I forgot Ribble there's a few of em


----------



## SWSteve (19 Jul 2016)

Lots of Spech around the West Country as well. Saw some 'racing' Felts yesterday. They look beautiful and have impacted my opinion on what to look for in a new bike...


----------



## HF2300 (19 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I thought that all Scousers would be riding Boardmans.



What, and be seen on something from the other side of the river?


----------



## cd365 (19 Jul 2016)

Restday https://twitter.com/laurenstendam/status/755342859549769728


----------



## SWSteve (19 Jul 2016)

Further rest day 

https://instagram.com/p/BICsjbpAOzj/


----------



## DCLane (19 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> The posh choice is Wiliers. So long as you catch it in time, it can be treated with anti-biotics though.



Thanks - given I've a Wilier Izoard. 

Around my area it's lots of Planet X's and the LBS does a good line in Spesh Tarmac S-Works.


----------



## perplexed (19 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> They're probably looking further afield than Brighton, broader horizons, *like Liverpool*.




They thought about it, but to put all the extra mountings on for the security locks would add unsatisfactory tonnage and spoil the lines.

One would have to ride with legs so akimbo that one would think one looks like a 20 stoner in jogging bottoms on a BMX riding away from the paper shop.


----------



## perplexed (19 Jul 2016)

Meanwhile, Nairo was pictured today wearing his new aero gear for the coming time trial.


----------



## brommers (19 Jul 2016)

Wasn't really listening, but I think that I heard that Steve Cummings is replacing someone at the Olympics


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Wasn't really listening, but I think that I heard that Steve Cummings is replacing someone at the Olympics


Yep







Kennaugh out, details unclear but it looks voluntary


----------



## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Wasn't really listening, but I think that I heard that Steve Cummings is replacing someone at the Olympics


Kennaugh withdrew due to not fully recovering yet from his recent injury: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cum...h-on-british-cyclings-team-for-olympic-games/

So do the fans get a wildcard opportunist to agitate things, or will Team GB ask Cummings to work to support Froome? And will Cummings and Ellingworth clear the air about one saying the other should resign? Interestinger and interestinger...


----------



## perplexed (19 Jul 2016)

Froome's trying to track this guy down on the rest day to see if he can pick up any tips...


----------



## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> Meanwhile, Nairo was pictured today wearing his new aero gear for the coming time trial.


Does the extra weight of all that iron outweigh the bad memory of when he wore a red suit to a TT?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLVIPfhuJEg


----------



## brommers (19 Jul 2016)

Whilst the others will be grovelling around Froome, Stevo will be wondering when to make a bolt for it.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (19 Jul 2016)

I see Froome has Adam Yates down as quietly getting on with his tour and doubts that he'll attack. But it would be great fun if he did attack....he's already done excellently and has little to lose after already achieving so much.


----------



## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> I see Froome has Adam Yates down as quietly getting on with his tour and doubts that he'll attack. But it would be great fun if he did attack....he's already done excellently_* and has little to lose *_after already achieving so much.


He's got a podium place to lose.


----------



## HF2300 (19 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> So do the fans get a wildcard opportunist to agitate things, or will Team GB ask Cummings to work to support Froome? And will Cummings and Ellingworth clear the air about one saying the other should resign? Interestinger and interestinger...



With a 5 man squad, they will want everyone to work for the chosen leader - there won't be any spares. If they want a wild card should the Froome plan go wrong, it could be Cummings on recent form - but then, there's someone else in that squad whose form's been a lot more consistent so far over this Tour, and is currently placed a lot higher than Cummings...


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (19 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> He's got a podium place to lose.


True but if he picks up a few more points to seal the white jersey with an attack he might be able to just tag along with the grupetto for the rest of the tour. Unlikely, I know, but it would be fun.


----------



## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> True but if he picks up a few more points to seal the white jersey with an attack he might be able to just tag along with the grupetto for the rest of the tour. Unlikely, I know, but it would be fun.


White jersey at the tour is awarded on time, not points. Did I confuse matters by posting a Vuelta video?

I think we'll get to learn something else about Adam Yates this tour: is he the kind of rider to try to defend the second place this year and see if he can get a whole team to support a future GC bid, or will he gamble for a shot at the win?


----------



## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> True but if he picks up a few more points to seal the white jersey with an attack he might be able to just tag along with the grupetto for the rest of the tour. Unlikely, I know, but it would be fun.


But the white jersey's done on time, not points, isn't it? So if he farts around at the back he'll lose it to Meijintes.

I know everyone keeps saying "it's not over yet ... there's plenty of racing to come" but it's all pretty sealed up now, and short of Froome crashing out (again) it will be a defensive display all round, with Yates and Mollema desperately hoping not to have a bad day. Except Quintana won't be happy with 4th.


----------



## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> White jersey at the tour is awarded on time, not points. Did I confuse matters by posting a Vuelta video?
> 
> I think we'll get to learn something else about Adam Yates this tour: is he the kind of rider to try to _*defend the second place*_ this year and see if he can get a whole team to support a future GC bid, or will he gamble for a shot at the win?


Mollema might have something to say about that. Yates is a minute behind Mollema and only 14 seconds ahead of Quintana. So his podium place isn't exactly secure.


1. FROOME
2. MOLLEMA + 01' 47''
3. YATES + 02' 45''
4. QUINTANA + 02' 59''
5. VALVERDE + 03' 17''

White jersey
1. YATES 
2. MEINTJES + 03' 03''
3. BARGUIL + 16' 30''


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> They're probably looking further afield than Brighton, broader horizons, like Liverpool.



Ah, hence the need for _New_ Brighton, to make it trendier.


----------



## ManiaMuse (19 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Kennaugh withdrew due to not fully recovering yet from his recent injury: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cum...h-on-british-cyclings-team-for-olympic-games/
> 
> So do the fans get a wildcard opportunist to agitate things, or will Team GB ask Cummings to work to support Froome? And will Cummings and Ellingworth clear the air about one saying the other should resign? Interestinger and interestinger...


What's the Rio course like? Does it suit the climbers, sprinters or Peter Sagan? (although he's doing the MTB race I believe? Nutter...)

On paper GB looks like a very strong road team although that can always work against you like it did in London.


----------



## Dayvo (19 Jul 2016)

User said:


> I have always wanted to go there to see quite how like Brighton it is.



From wikipedia: _*New Brighton* is a seaside resort forming part of the town of Wallasey, in the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral, in the metropolitan county of Merseyside, England. It is located at the northeastern tip of the Wirral Peninsula, within the historic county boundaries of Cheshire, and has sandy beaches which line the Irish Sea. New Brighton is home to the UK's longest promenade at 3.5 kilometres.
_
Sandy beaches! There's lovely. 

Looks alright to me.

https://www.google.no/search?q=new+...hUKEwjc582x-P_NAhUoQZoKHVfKCAIQ_AUIBigB&dpr=1


----------



## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Mollema might have something to say about that. Yates is a minute behind Mollema and only 14 seconds ahead of Quintana. So his podium place isn't exactly secure.


I could say that I expect Mollema and Quintana to flounder, but instead I'll blame the rest day beer 



ManiaMuse said:


> What's the Rio course like? Does it suit the climbers, sprinters or Peter Sagan?


I think it's too hilly for Sagan but not out and out climbing but I didn't spot a good preview and I've got to go just now.


----------



## Crackle (19 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> From wikipedia: _*New Brighton* is a seaside resort forming part of the town of Wallasey, in the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral, in the metropolitan county of Merseyside, England. It is located at the northeastern tip of the Wirral Peninsula, within the historic county boundaries of Cheshire, and has sandy beaches which line the Irish Sea. New Brighton is home to the UK's longest promenade at 3.5 kilometres.
> _
> Sandy beaches! There's lovely.
> 
> ...


It's a one horse town which the horse left but they brought in a Pony. it's a popular spot now.


----------



## HF2300 (19 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> What's the Rio course like? Does it suit the climbers, sprinters or Peter Sagan? (although he's doing the MTB race I believe? Nutter...).



Sagan's doing the MTB because he tried the road course and decided it wasn't for him. The course goes out near the coast, loops round the ITT course, then comes back to Copacabana via four loops over a hill that would probably be Cat 3 or 4 on the tour. There are some cobbles as well, supposedly. It's probably a puncheur / classics rider course, which is why those sort of riders are getting interested in it.



Dogtrousers said:


> I know everyone keeps saying "it's not over yet ... there's plenty of racing to come" but it's all pretty sealed up now, and short of Froome crashing out (again) it will be a defensive display all round, with Yates and Mollema desperately hoping not to have a bad day. Except Quintana won't be happy with 4th.



Froome looks strong and his team look very together. Quintana doesn't look strong and his team look fragmented. If he's going to get anywhere, he's got to attack and shake things up, but I don't think he looks like someone who's going to, and that time trial in a couple of days is going to be on everyone's mind and probably affect their commitment tomorrow. Defensive display all round? Froome's the guy who's done the attacking this year, in previous years he's tried to put in at least one decisive attack in the mountains, and he's not got a big lead at the moment. He might want to build more time to protect against a jour sans or crash, but maybe with his TT form he might want to try that on Thursday on the assumption that Quintana isn't sandbagging and isn't in mountain TT form.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (19 Jul 2016)

Whilst Froome has Wout Pouels with him no one is going to achieve anything. He's been the dominant force consistently.


----------



## Venod (19 Jul 2016)

Looks like Cavs gone home

.https://twitter.com/TeamDiData?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


----------



## Crandoggler (19 Jul 2016)

David Millar should be ousted from his role. His dull monotone drone and outrageously poor clothes style makes me want to tweezer my nostrils and poke my eyes out.


----------



## HF2300 (19 Jul 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> David Millar should be ousted from his role. His dull monotone drone and outrageously poor clothes style makes me want to tweezer my nostrils and poke my eyes out.



Millar's not perfect (and I wish he's stop saying everything's perfect) but his and Boulting's commentary has been far more informative and insightful than any other Tour commentary I've heard - would you rather have P&P? And I'm not sure how his dress sense, or otherwise, relates to the quality of his commentary.


----------



## T4tomo (19 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> With a 5 man squad, they will want everyone to work for the chosen leader - there won't be any spares. If they want a wild card should the Froome plan go wrong, it could be Cummings on recent form - but then, there's someone else in that squad whose form's been a lot more consistent so far over this Tour, and is currently placed a lot higher than Cummings...


Its a classics course, I'd have thought Geraint is a better bet than Froome as leader, with Cummings as a wild card to get in a break if he can.


----------



## ManiaMuse (19 Jul 2016)

Afnug said:


> Looks like Cavs gone home
> 
> .https://twitter.com/TeamDiData?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


Makes sense, yesterday was always going to a long-shot to have enough left in the tank for the final 250 metres.

Paris is always dangerous and his rivals/the other sprint teams are going to be super keen to get a win because they haven't had any this tour at all.

Probably looked at it and thought did he really want to endure four more days of suffering in the mountains just to get to Paris which isn't a guaranteed win and a risky stage when he could be spending that precious time on the track fine-tuning his racecraft.

I'm sure he's not too fussed considering how he's exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations this year and seems back to his best.


----------



## Strathlubnaig (19 Jul 2016)

The Tour is decided. Only a major disaster will change that. Battle on for first losers spots and jerseys now. With the sheer strength and depth of Sky domestiques no one can challenge. The Sky paychecks must be huge to persuade otherwise strong GC potential riders be subservient riders.


----------



## HertzvanRental (19 Jul 2016)

Strathlubnaig said:


> The Tour is decided. Only a major disaster will change that. Battle on for first losers spots and jerseys now. With the sheer strength and depth of Sky domestiques no one can challenge. The Sky paychecks must be huge to persuade otherwise strong GC potential riders be subservient riders.


Is that right? I seem to remember reading that whilst Team Sky's budget was high, it was matched by some other teams. If so, it's surely more than just a paycheck?


----------



## SWSteve (19 Jul 2016)

HertzvanRental said:


> Is that right? I seem to remember reading that whilst Team Sky's budget was high, it was matched by some other teams. If so, it's surely more than just a paycheck?



Movistar have similar budget I believe. There is the benefit that Sky have, where the riders aren't employees of the team but contractors, so may be able to beat manage their earnings.


----------



## smutchin (19 Jul 2016)

Team Sky's finances:
http://inrng.com/2016/07/the-finances-of-team-sky-2015/


----------



## T4tomo (19 Jul 2016)

Given Cavs history of getting ill after a tough 3 weeks, its the right decision. He's won 4 stages, rode in Yellow, moved ahead of Hinault. No point flogging thru 4 hard days just to get to Paris, its not like he hasn't won on the Champs before, but Olympic medal.....


----------



## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Movistar have similar budget I believe. There is the benefit that Sky have, where the riders aren't employees of the team but contractors, so may be able to beat manage their earnings.


L'Equipe puts Movistar in 7th place with a €15m budget. Sky's #1 with €35m

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-team-largest-budget-262275

Quite what these headline figures mean exactly and how accurate they are I don't know.


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (20 Jul 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> David Millar should be ousted from his role. His dull monotone drone and outrageously poor clothes style makes me want to tweezer my nostrils and poke my eyes out.



Totally disagree. I feel much better informed this year and have a better understanding of the team tactics and what the riders are thinking. I would give him 9/10.

Ned B needs to calm down a bit though, and stop doing a 'Murray Walker' every time something happens. 6/10

Graham


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Gutted for Cav, I'm sure it's even more disappointing for him than it is for the rest of us that he won't get another crack at the Champs-Elysees this year, but I guess with four very tough days to go before Sunday, there's no guarantee he'll make it there, so I can understand the decision to withdraw.



Dogtrousers said:


> Mollema might have something to say about that. Yates is a minute behind Mollema and only 14 seconds ahead of Quintana. So his podium place isn't exactly secure.



Mollema has done incredibly well so far but I wonder if today's final climb might find him out. In 2013, he was 2nd overall right up until the last few stages - then lost 2mins in the stage 17 time trial and 3mins on stage 18 to Alpe d'Huez. I like him so I'm crossing my fingers that he can stay strong all the way to the finish this year.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> L'Equipe puts Movistar in 7th place with a €15m budget. Sky's #1 with €35m
> 
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-team-largest-budget-262275
> 
> Quite what these headline figures mean exactly and how accurate they are I don't know.




That's odd, I was of the opinion that BMC were one of the 'smaller budget' teams.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> That's odd, I was of the opinion that BMC were one of the 'smaller budget' teams.



They're owned by Andy Rihs, who makes Oleg Tinkov look poor.


----------



## Louch (20 Jul 2016)

Bmc are apparently trying to get a new main sponsor to stop it being a plaything team. Which is a shame as as I got into cycling I liked the uniformity of their kits and bikes


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Froome looks strong and his team look very together. Quintana doesn't look strong and his team look fragmented. If he's going to get anywhere, he's got to attack and shake things up, but I don't think he looks like someone who's going to



The double-climb at the finish of today's stage looks like a good opportunity for Movistar to attempt something - if, say, Valverde goes on a kamikaze attack on the Forclaz and forces Sky to use up their domestiques, the descent is short enough that they wouldn't be able to regroup and Froome would be isolated for the final climb. Whether or not they could actually make such a tactic work is another matter, but they really do need to try something a bit more inventive than saving their attack for the final 3km of the final climb, because that isn't going to work either. 

Part of the problem appears to be a lack of self-belief. The rest of the team don't appear to have much faith in Quintana.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I can barely recall seeing any amateur cyclist on a Pinarello but I suppose they must think the marketing works.



The interesting one will be who they get in to replace Rapha. I think I know what a lot of middle-aged men will be putting on their letter to Santa this Christmas.


----------



## gavroche (20 Jul 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> Totally disagree. I feel much better informed this year and have a better understanding of the team tactics and what the riders are thinking. I would give him 9/10.
> 
> Ned B needs to calm down a bit though, and stop doing a 'Murray Walker' every time something happens. 6/10
> 
> Graham


Who is worried about David's choice of clothing? This is not a fashion show. I couldn't care less what he wears so long as he talks cycling and tactics,which he does.


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2016)

Gorka out - crash at start


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Barely a minute into the stage and they've had the first crash! Gorka Izagirre was involved and has quit the race as a result - not a good omen for Movistar. 

Bozic and Barguil also down.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Snap!

(ETA: comment due to cross-posting with @brommers rather than sound effect for Izagirre's collarbone)


----------



## gavroche (20 Jul 2016)

Regarding the final GC, I also think the Tour is already won. Quintana is not in the same class as Froome and seems to be a wheel sucker, just like Zootemelk used to be , although he did manage to win a tour eventually.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (20 Jul 2016)

Izagirre out! Suspected broken collar bone


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

The Tour's not won until they roll over the finish line in Paris.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> The interesting one will be who they get in to replace Rapha. I think I know what a lot of middle-aged men will be putting on their letter to Santa this Christmas.



i assume it will be Castelli to help more men who are a bit podgy and on bikes with a short reach and long head tube feel 'pro'. 

Would be interesting to see DHB or another 'lesser' brand, if they could ever pull it off...


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2016)

David Millar's hat, GO!


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> i assume it will be Castelli to help more men who are a bit podgy and on bikes with a short reach and long head tube feel 'pro'.
> 
> Would be interesting to see DHB or another 'lesser' brand, if they could ever pull it off...



Unlikely to be DHB, purely because it's more a 'value' than 'performance' brand.

If it's going to be a British brand, Endura would be the stand-out candidate - high-tech kit, British made. The skinsuit they developed for Alex Dowsett's Hour record was reckoned to be a game changer. Wonder if Movistar have some kind of exclusivity deal?

I've heard the names Assos and X-Bionic being bandied about. X-Bionic is a particularly intriguing one - would be guaranteed to generate a lot of heated discussion.

Vulpine is another Brit brand that could be a good match for Sky - much like Rapha, they make high quality kit but haven't been traditionally involved in the sportier end of the market before, but they've recently launched some very decent 'performance' kit for the Hoy label, so maybe that's a sign of a change of direction for them.


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I've heard the names Assos and X-Bionic being bandied about. X-Bionic is a particularly intriguing one - would be guaranteed to generate a lot of heated discussion.



Thinking unfair performance advantage per the swimsuits of a few years ago?


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Jul 2016)

Interesting that the TdF website is still listing Cavendish as second in the points comp even though he DNS today.

OK, "interesting" was possibly a poor word to have chosen.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> David Millar's hat, GO!





smutchin said:


> Unlikely to be DHB, purely because it's more a 'value' than 'performance' brand.
> 
> If it's going to be a British brand, Endura would be the stand-out candidate - high-tech kit, British made. The skinsuit they developed for Alex Dowsett's Hour record was reckoned to be a game changer. Wonder if Movistar have some kind of exclusivity deal?
> 
> ...


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Gutted for Cav, I'm sure it's even more disappointing for him than it is for the rest of us that he won't get another crack at the Champs-Elysees this year, but I guess with four very tough days to go before Sunday, there's no guarantee he'll make it there, so I can understand the decision to withdraw.



Absolutely, and he's got to have an eye on the Olympics - chance of yet another Champs Elysees win vs. chance of a not yet achieved Olympic medal. I hope he gets it or it'll be devastating.



smutchin said:


> The double-climb at the finish of today's stage looks like a good opportunity for Movistar to attempt something - if, say, Valverde goes on a kamikaze attack on the Forclaz and forces Sky to use up their domestiques, the descent is short enough that they wouldn't be able to regroup and Froome would be isolated for the final climb. Whether or not they could actually make such a tactic work is another matter, but they really do need to try something a bit more inventive than saving their attack for the final 3km of the final climb, because that isn't going to work either. Part of the problem appears to be a lack of self-belief. The rest of the team don't appear to have much faith in Quintana.



Self belief, conventional tactics, and I don't know about faith in Quintana but he does seem to be a guy who relies on the team to organise things rather than someone who takes the lead and gets the team to pull for him, which makes a lot of difference. Or I might be completely misinterpreting the situation!

I caught Hinault's comment yesterday on the highlights programme about leaders not attacking from way out these days, and it struck a chord. The 'attack on the last climb' tactic is highly conventional and will have been anticipated. Quintana's not the only man who could attack on the double climb though.

Meanwhile, back at the race Sagan's giving it death again...


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I caught Hinault's comment yesterday on the highlights programme about leaders not attacking from way out these days, and it struck a chord. The 'attack on the last climb' tactic is highly conventional and will have been anticipated. Quintana's not the only man who could attack on the double climb though.



Yes, I saw that. Interesting observation.

Of course, there may be other reasons why riders don't go on long-range mountain attacks like they used to in the days of Virenque and Landis...


----------



## mjr (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Part of the problem appears to be a lack of self-belief. The rest of the team don't appear to have much faith in Quintana.


Do we think they should have left ValvPiti at home? Has Quintana ever won a stage race with Valverde in his team?


----------



## brommers (20 Jul 2016)

According to the tracker Gorka is still in the race?


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Unlikely to be DHB, purely because it's more a 'value' than 'performance' brand.
> 
> If it's going to be a British brand, Endura would be the stand-out candidate - high-tech kit, British made. The skinsuit they developed for Alex Dowsett's Hour record was reckoned to be a game changer. Wonder if Movistar have some kind of exclusivity deal?
> 
> ...




Would the Sky fanbois be able to wear Assos? Don't they tell people who are a bit porky to not buy their kit?

Sticking with a Britiah manufacturer looking to move into the performance domain could be good, and see a combination/use of branded equipment which is in fact manufacturered by someone else (see Rapha's early skin suits for Sky). Evans would probably love Vulpine, as they stock all the Hoy bikes/kit and also offer the Team Sky regalia to all those who want it.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> According to the tracker Gorka is still in the race?




Is his bike on a car?


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Jul 2016)

I hope they go for Aldi. Then I'll become fashionable overnight.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Vangarderen has gone pop!


----------



## Dogtrousers (20 Jul 2016)

Why is Sagan still beating himself going out hunting intermediate sprints ? He has about a zillion point lead on Kittel, and Cav's gawn.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why is Sagan still beating himself going out hunting intermediate sprints ? He has about a zillion point lead on Kittel, and Cav's gawn.


Testosterone?


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why is Sagan still beating himself going out hunting intermediate sprints ? He has about a zillion point lead on Kittel, and Cav's gawn.



Honour, get Majka into the breakaway and support him, because he can and for fun and the hell of it, I think.


----------



## Elybazza61 (20 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Makes sense, yesterday was always going to a long-shot to have enough left in the tank for the final 250 metres.
> 
> Paris is always dangerous and his rivals/the other sprint teams are going to be super keen to get a win because they haven't had any this tour at all.
> 
> ...



So basically all this one day at a time thing which he repeated yesterday was bullshit?;I should think British Cycling/team GB has been on his case all through the tour and it was only a matter of time when he left.

Oh and all this subterfuge about seeing a doctor and then straight off to the airport;why didn't he just say from the start "I'll go at the second rest-day" rather than stringing everyone along.

IMHO of course,you may sense I'm not Cav's biggest fan;respect what he's done but he can come across as a bit of a dick sometimes.


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

So who will win today's Majka vs Pantano duel?


----------



## Elybazza61 (20 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Why is Sagan still beating himself going out hunting intermediate sprints ? He has about a zillion point lead on Kittel, and Cav's gawn.




Because he can and I think he just enjoys racing for the sake of it plus it's good to see the world champions jersey being worn with panache.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> So who will win today's Majka vs Pantano duel?



Froome 

But seriously... Have they got enough of a lead to stay away? I really don't know, tbh. Astana look very interested and Sky certainly haven't been riding defensively.


----------



## Elybazza61 (20 Jul 2016)

cd365 said:


> Restday https://twitter.com/laurenstendam/status/755342859549769728



Chris Froome replied that he thought he(CF) was in the wrong team


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Zakarin catches Majka and Pantano!


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Froome  But seriously... Have they got enough of a lead to stay away? I really don't know, tbh. Astana look very interested and Sky certainly haven't been riding defensively.



Could they make a 10 min deficit over 8km though? They'd have to go some, and Majka and Pantano look OK - though Zakarin's added another dimension now.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

Zakarin's gone!


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

And Pantano!


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Zakarin's gone!



And so has Pantano


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> So who will win today's Majka vs Pantano duel?



Zakarin, apparently.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> And so has Pantano


Zakarin's now riding solo and with gears to spare, according to Millar.


----------



## mjr (20 Jul 2016)

And now he's broken Pantano. It's such a shame the junior doper might not be allowed to compete at the olympics, isn't it?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Could they make a 10 min deficit over 8km though?



We've seen big gaps get eaten up quickly on big climbs like this in the past but... Nah, not now, not with Zakarin riding like this.


----------



## suzeworld (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yes, I saw that. Interesting observation.
> 
> Of course, there may be other reasons why riders don't go on long-range mountain attacks like they used to in the days of Virenque and Landis...



I heard it too --- I didn't think of druggies, so much as they never had all the radio contact and info that they have now, so racing must have been edgier - and more demanding with regard to chasing down groups and not knowing exactly whrre everyone else is on the road .. surely that is also a factor in the modern game?


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Poels dropping Froome!


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> We've seen big gaps get eaten up quickly on big climbs like this in the past but... Nah, not now, not with Zakarin riding like this.



Was thinking the front runners looked a bit too strong to lose such a big chunk of time.

Pantano consistently has a few km/h on Zakarin, and is running about the same speed as the YJ group.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

Movistar are turning up the heat.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Movistar are turning up the heat.


Movistar have turned the heat off.


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Poels dropping Froome!



Domestique dropping his leader? That would never have happened in Wiggins' day...


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

LAY THE SMACHDOWN


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Was thinking the front runners looked a bit too strong to lose such a big chunk of time.
> 
> Pantano consistently has a few km/h on Zakarin, and is running about the same speed as the YJ group.



Yeah, Zakarin is on the limit. He could blow up. The finish of this climb is particularly nasty...


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

Got there, but only just. He looked wiped out.


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

Why is Quintana giving up even more time? Definitely finished unless something happens to Froome.


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

Yates blows off Quintana!


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

Froome really attacking the others, or just defending his lead over Porte while allowing Porte to jump up the classification?

Outstanding riding by Yates.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yates blows off Quintana!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (20 Jul 2016)

Quitana proving us all right again. Stonking ride from Porte again


----------



## Supersuperleeds (20 Jul 2016)

Anyone know where Mollema (sp) finished?


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Froome really attacking the others, or just defending his lead over Porte while allowing Porte to jump up the classification?
> 
> Outstanding riding by Yates.


Froome didn't look to be attacking Porte, so I'm guessing he didn't mind so long as he stays ahead.


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yates blows off Quintana!



You wouldn't have thought he'd have time, what with having to ride a bike race as well.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (20 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Quitana proving us all right again. Stonking ride from Porte again


Is that a deliberate spelling of Quintana?


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You wouldn't have thought he'd have time, what with having to ride a bike race as well.


He's that good


----------



## Supersuperleeds (20 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Is that a deliberate spelling of Quintana?



I'll be honest:

I noticed it when I clicked post, but then thought actually that's about right so I won't edit it


----------



## HF2300 (20 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> He's that good



That tickled me so much I want to give you about 10 likes for it.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That tickled me so much I want to give you about 10 likes for it.



I'll give her one....

a like!


----------



## smutchin (20 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Froome really attacking the others, or just defending his lead over Porte while allowing Porte to jump up the classification?



Best form of defence... 

It was a bit like stage 11 where he took advantage of someone else's attack. Pure racing instinct and a sign of how strong he's still feeling. 



> Outstanding riding by Yates.



Yep, fantastic to see him taking on riders like Bardet and Quintana. 

Shame for Mollema - his podium place is looking very shaky now.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (20 Jul 2016)

I really want Porte to get on the podium, as long as he doesn't knock Yates off.


----------



## philk56 (20 Jul 2016)

Sagan still managing to do a wheelie at 12% gradient!

https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/755785586179530752


----------



## coffeejo (20 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Sagan still managing to do a wheelie at 12% gradient!
> 
> https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/755785586179530752


Zakarin nearly fell over sideways zipping up his jersey!


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

Jensie has quite the nose!


----------



## Beebo (20 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Sagan still managing to do a wheelie at 12% gradient!
> 
> https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/755785586179530752


When he retires he can join the circus.
The guy is some bike handler.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Jul 2016)

Cancellara has withdrawn "to focus on the Olympics"


----------



## jarlrmai (20 Jul 2016)

Every 4 years there's a convenient excuse.


----------



## Killiekevin (20 Jul 2016)

Has Poels been more effective for Froome than Porte and Thomas have been in previous years and more so than Froome was for Wiggins in 2012? Every attack he just seems to reel in and i think this demotivates the peleton in a subconscious way.

Sub-question - will Poels go the same way as Porte and attempt to break out to do his own thing or will he get a team leader role within the Vuelta or Giro assuming Froome will lead at Tour as he seems to be hinting.


----------



## SWSteve (20 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> Has Poels been more effective for Froome than Porte and Thomas have been in previous years and more so than Froome was for Wiggins in 2012? Every attack he just seems to reel in and i think this demotivates the peleton in a subconscious way.
> 
> Sub-question - will Poels go the same way as Porte and attempt to break out to do his own thing or will he get a team leader role within the Vuelta or Giro assuming Froome will lead at Tour as he seems to be hinting.




Maybe Poels should get a crack at one himself, and then move on


----------



## Louch (20 Jul 2016)

Given the example set by froome after his jealousy over Wiggins being main GC rider , he would be best fit letting poels lead at vuelta and get a possible win for himself


----------



## rich p (20 Jul 2016)

It's been a singularly interesting and diverse tour but it looks like it's going to lack a serious yellow jersey challenge.


----------



## Va Va Froome (20 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> Has Poels been more effective for Froome than Porte and Thomas have been in previous years and more so than Froome was for Wiggins in 2012? Every attack he just seems to reel in and i think this demotivates the peleton in a subconscious way.
> 
> Sub-question - will Poels go the same way as Porte and attempt to break out to do his own thing or will he get a team leader role within the Vuelta or Giro assuming Froome will lead at Tour as he seems to be hinting.



Porte was amazing that year he was hauling Froome up the mountains! 

It's quite nice to see him doing well in his new team, still fighting hard for a podium. I couldn't believe what happened to his teammate today though: Not TJvG's day at all!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (21 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Zakarin nearly fell over sideways zipping up his jersey!



Being someone who can only ride without both hands for a set distance in a perfectly straight line without pedalling or any other sort of contrary movement, I was thinking about this, and came to the conclusion that if I was never able to do it, and yet be a rider in these events, then I would have to keep my jersey zipped at the very bottom (or have a zip that stops near the bottom) so that I could then do it up slowly with one hand.

Either that or I'd have to stop on the final straight, and I imagine everyone having a field day about that! 


And don't get me started on those musette bags!


----------



## philk56 (21 Jul 2016)

I don't often look forward to time trails but today's looks like it could be great. Quite a brutal climb!


----------



## BrumJim (21 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Would the Sky fanbois be able to wear Assos? Don't they tell people who are a bit porky to not buy their kit?
> 
> Sticking with a Britiah manufacturer looking to move into the performance domain could be good, and see a combination/use of branded equipment which is in fact manufacturered by someone else (see Rapha's early skin suits for Sky). Evans would probably love Vulpine, as they stock all the Hoy bikes/kit and also offer the Team Sky regalia to all those who want it.



How about Fat Lad at the Back?

(OK, I know they only brand, not manufacture shirts, but humour me anyway, please!)


----------



## Andrew_P (21 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> It's been a singularly interesting and diverse tour but it looks like it's going to lack a serious yellow jersey challenge.


I love the pomp and ceremony of the TdF and ITV4 coverage but agree it really needs a year soon where there is a race for yellow. The only thing really grabbing the interest is the young lad "yeah" Yates. Brilliant


----------



## philtalksbx (21 Jul 2016)

Mollema took over a minute out of Yates on the last (flat) TT but Yates is a better climber. Bring it on.


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2016)

Before Yates, S was pinged for his illegal asthma thingy, what would Ulrika Bike Edge's plans for the TdF have been? Would both brothers have been hoping for a place?

Simon is the one who went through the BC program and Adam was the one who went road racing in France - izzat right?


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2016)

Looking at the profile, I would say that the 1st time check will be a good indicator of where they're going to finish today.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

Let's have a winning time guess.

I'm going for 28:30


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Before Yates, S was pinged for his illegal asthma thingy, what would Ulrika Bike Edge's plans for the TdF have been? Would both brothers have been hoping for a place?


I think so. Simon Yates was on the roster for the Dauphiné until then, alongside Adam, but it could always have been the plan to send the best to the TdF and the other to Poland.



> Simon is the one who went through the BC program and Adam was the one who went road racing in France - izzat right?


Yes.


----------



## brommers (21 Jul 2016)

30:39


----------



## ManiaMuse (21 Jul 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> I love the pomp and ceremony of the TdF and ITV4 coverage but agree it really needs a year soon where there is a race for yellow. The only thing really grabbing the interest is the young lad "yeah" Yates. Brilliant


Agree, assuming the top riders are riding clean then it has become a bit like F1 Mercedes dominance except there isn't really an intra-team rivalry either.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Agree, assuming the top riders are riding clean then it has become a bit like F1 Mercedes dominance except there isn't really an intra-team rivalry either.



So when Red Bull were winning it all then?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Given the performance of Poels, Nieve and Henao on the climbs this year, it's scary to think that Sky could be even stronger next year with the addition of Rosa. Even their subs bench is stronger than some teams' First IX - slightly disappointing to see the likes of Konig and Golas languishing in the reserves when they could be doing a job at the Tour for a different team, but presumably they'll be called on for the Vuelta?


----------



## Booyaa (21 Jul 2016)

Killiekevin said:


> Has Poels been more effective for Froome than Porte and Thomas have been in previous years and more so than Froome was for Wiggins in 2012? Every attack he just seems to reel in and i think this demotivates the peleton in a subconscious way.
> 
> Sub-question - will Poels go the same way as Porte and attempt to break out to do his own thing or will he get a team leader role within the Vuelta or Giro assuming Froome will lead at Tour as he seems to be hinting.



Not sure about that, in the last week or so he has been good but did very little prior to that, probably to keep him as fresh as possible for the last week. From memory Porte and Thomas both finished quite high up the standings but Powels is no where near the top 20.


----------



## Starchivore (21 Jul 2016)

I know it's about winning first, but with Le Tour… I’m uneasy with teams “hoarding” so much talent.

I think it goes against the spirit and tradition a bit. If you are good enough to challenge for the top 10 GC places then surely you shouldn’t be riding for someone else. Or at least there shouldn’t be more than one “superdomestique” in each team. One as a wingman, sure, but surrounding the leader with riders who should be leaders of teams themselves, and not really going for any other stage wins or anything? I just think that’s against the spirit of the competition.

I say that as someone who likes Froome and absolutely wants him to win.


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2016)

I guess it depends how long Sky are prepared to keep pouring money in. They've already dropped, or are dropping the BC sponsorship. We may have a recession on the way and things could get tighter. 

One view could be (I was going to say "I think" but I haven't thought it through at all) that the big Sky budget, possibly combined with the blurring of lines with BC has resulted in a team with money and resources sufficient to control the tour, to the detriment of its entertainment value. A levelling of the playing field in terms of budgets could be to the good. (Or that could be utter cobblers that I've just made up).


----------



## T4tomo (21 Jul 2016)

BrumJim said:


> How about Fat Lad at the Back?
> 
> (OK, I know they only brand, not manufacture shirts, but humour me anyway, please!)


Bit harsh on Luke Rowe?


----------



## T4tomo (21 Jul 2016)

Moving on from that, I think it was Hinault that was saying, that none of the GC riders or teams attack from a long way out any more. Porte for instance was feeling good yesterday, yet attacked with 2km to go, he could have been a clear second or better had he gone much sooner. 

I know it's slightly different now as you rarely had whole teams riding in support of their GC hope back in the day, and large quantities of EPO made it a bit easier, but no one attacks Pantani style on the 2nd of 4 climbs etc. Everyone sits marking each other until so far up that last climb.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I think it goes against the spirit and tradition a bit. If you are good enough to challenge for the top 10 GC places then surely you shouldn’t be riding for someone else.



It's nothing new. In 1923, Ottavio Bottecchia was signed by Automoto-Hutchinson to ride as a domestique for Henri Pelissier, even though he was strong enough to win it himself (which he subsequently did, twice).

Henri Desgrange would have been of the same opinion as you but he was a fruitcake.


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I know it's about winning first, but with Le Tour… I’m uneasy with teams “hoarding” so much talent.
> 
> I think it goes against the spirit and tradition a bit. If you are good enough to challenge for the top 10 GC places then surely you shouldn’t be riding for someone else. Or at least there shouldn’t be more than one “superdomestique” in each team. One as a wingman, sure, but surrounding the leader with riders who should be leaders of teams themselves, and not really going for any other stage wins or anything? I just think that’s against the spirit of the competition.
> 
> I say that as someone who likes Froome and absolutely wants him to win.


I'm not saying I disagree - indeed I think I agree a lot and would like to see more competition - but I don't see the current Tour position as being that different from other sports. Think football, rugby etc and there's usually one or a small number of clubs (usually those with money - Leicester an exception this year) at any one point in time that tend to dominate the top of the tree.

Beyond the Tour though, is there such an issue in cycling? Sky are so focused on the one race that they know how to dominate - but I'm not sure the same applies elsewhere so is there really an issue? Equally Froome has done a hell of a lot this year to make the Tour more interesting - think frog on a skateboard descending and breakaways into the crosswinds with Sagan - so I'm not sure you can put too much at Sky's door. Personally I think the other teams need to step up and take a few more risks and try to challenge beyond trying to nab a few seconds on the last hill of each mountain day. (and yes I might be swayed a bit by Hinault and his recent press interviews )


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Just had a look at the live data feed on the Tour website. Bizarrely, the second checkpoint is showing similar problems to the previous time trial, with fewer riders clocked than at the third checkpoint. Is it cursed?


----------



## Starchivore (21 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> It's nothing new. In 1923, Ottavio Bottecchia was signed by Automoto-Hutchinson to ride as a domestique for Henri Pelissier, even though he was strong enough to win it himself (which he subsequently did, twice).
> 
> Henri Desgrange would have been of the same opinion as you but he was a fruitcake.


Being a young ‘un and not having witnessed anything pre-Armstrong I probably have some fantasised notion of the past.

But I don’t think there is a problem with having one guy supporting who is good enough to be a GC contender. I think the issue is when there are three riders supporting the leader who are at that level. That seems to me to be a bit much.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

Anyone else unable to sign in to watch ITV4?


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

nvm it works now.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Just had a look at the live data feed on the Tour website. Bizarrely, the second checkpoint is showing similar problems to the previous time trial, with fewer riders clocked than at the third checkpoint. Is it cursed?


I have it open in hope but it seems to be partially working in a parallel universe.


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2016)

IIRC Desgrange hated the idea of teams altogether. He wanted lone riders duking it out mano a mano on unsurfaced roads over the mountains. On fixed gears. I think he also coined the term "domestique", as an insult to those who weren't competing on their own account but were despicably hiring out their services.


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I think it goes against the spirit and tradition a bit. If you are good enough to challenge for the top 10 GC places then surely you shouldn’t be riding for someone else.


While a big paycheck may encourage potential GC contenders to subjugate their goals for another one, their own ambition and desire for a clear place in the history books should work against that. We've already seen Simon Gerrans leave Sky to GreenEdge, Rigoberto Uran to Mega Farmers and Richie Porte go to BMC in search of leadership for GC assaults, as well as Cav switch to the Mega Farmers in the hope of more sprint support.



Starchivore said:


> Or at least there shouldn’t be more than one “superdomestique” in each team. One as a wingman, sure, but surrounding the leader with riders who should be leaders of teams themselves, and not really going for any other stage wins or anything? I just think that’s against the spirit of the competition.


GC riders pretending to be superdomestiques don't usually seem that helpful: Valverde "for" Quintana, Nibali for Aru (that one seems genuine even if it's not been so effective - I assume Nibali is secure about his plans for next year), Teejay with Porte, Hinault "for" LeMond  Sky seem better at convincing them (maybe it's "do this for the team now and you will be our protected rider at a later grand tour"?) but even Froome supporting Wiggins wasn't exactly harmonious. Thomas for Froome is about the best it's been, isn't it?


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> IIRC Desgrange hated the idea of teams altogether. He wanted lone riders duking it out mano a mano on unsurfaced roads over the mountains. On fixed gears. I think he also coined the term "domestique", as an insult to those who weren't competing on their own account but were despicably hiring out their services.



Yeah, like I said, he was a fruitcake.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

The last corner is causing some carnage

https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/756110205763645440?lang=en-gb


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

Dumoulin again...


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

Does Tom Dumoulin TT bike have rear brakes? I guess they are really fancy frame integrated ones.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Dumoulin again...



Not nearly as big a margin this time though. Will be interesting to see what Froome and Porte do on this course.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (21 Jul 2016)

Is it just my imagination (I have only seen this occasionally so far), but are there more kids running alongside the riders now?
I don't remember seeing kids doing that, only adults, and yet, yesterday and today, I have seen one or two kids doing it.

I do wonder if they are starting getting kids to do it now so that if Froome lamps them or whatever then he'll be in deep sh*t!


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> I know it's slightly different now as you rarely had whole teams riding in support of their GC hope back in the day, and large quantities of EPO made it a bit easier, but no one attacks Pantani style on the 2nd of 4 climbs etc.


Floyd didn't need no stinking EPO! He attacked on the 1st of 5 climbs, powered only by artificial Testosterone. "Without a shadow of a doubt, today will go down as one of the finest stages in modern Tour de France..." Errr, not exactly, CyclingNews.

I think the last rider to succeed at a bizarre long attack might have been pre-steak-test Alberto Contador, so we might have seen the last of it. I suspect some tactical innovation is possible to hinder the Sky Train method, but I doubt it's a GC contender on a long solo break.



jarlrmai said:


> Does Tom Dumoulin TT bike have rear brakes? I guess they are really fancy frame integrated ones.


Probably they'll be behind the bottom bracket (like in this road.cc review of a Kuota) or similar madness.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Wasn't really watching properly... was that a planned bike change by Purito just now? Swapping to a standard road bike for steeper parts of the course or something?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

What happened there with Rodriguez? Did he have a problem with his bike or was it a deliberate switch to another bike for the climbing?


----------



## coffeejo (21 Jul 2016)

It's all a bit calm in here this afternoon so here's a question. Where do you stand on riders changing their bikes for different sections of Time Trials?


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

I'd stand out the way.


----------



## coffeejo (21 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I'd stand out the way.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I'd stand out the way.



Pah, call yourself a cycling fan? You should be jumping about directly in front of the rider wearing nothing but a mankini.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> It's all a bit calm in here this afternoon so here's a question. Where do you stand on riders changing their bikes for different sections of Time Trials?



Should go back to the good old days when the riders and to be totally self sufficient regarding the bikes, they'd only use one then


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

Rodriguez going well at the first check, 3rd.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

I think they should follow Froome's lead and get rid of the bike all together.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Froome's going to lose loads of time if he doesn't put on a bigger back wheel.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

If Nairo wants to motivate himself to do well today he should use visualisation techniques - imagine he's just left school to ride home and there's a new episode of Dogtanian and the Muskehounds starting in 29 minutes.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

How rude, someone just asked me to do some work!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Blimey he took that corner as if he had been taking lessons off me


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Blimey he took that corner as if he had been taking lessons off me



I thought he'd lost it for a moment. Lucky not to go down.


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

Quintana 47" down at the first check!!


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Great ride by Aru.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

Everytime I see Froome roll down that start ramp I think of that TT crash from his Barloworld days.


View: https://youtu.be/7DCe4QVO0PE?t=15


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Ahem. 



smutchin said:


> The way he's going, it would be no surprise if he doesn't finish on the podium. He could even fall behind Bardet and Porte.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Go on, Yatesy!


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Go on, Yatesy!


25" up on Mollema at the first check - riding himself into 2nd?


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

Dropping a bit in the second segment though...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Froome 23 seconds down on Porte at the first time check


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

? ITV just shown Froome is 121st and 3 minutes down? Must be wrong


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

Heavy TT bikes a mistake? For the non TT specialist.


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

Okay no, the times are all to cock.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Froome fastest through 13.5km


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Yates took around 2 seconds on Mollema


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Froome should have this


----------



## Supersuperleeds (21 Jul 2016)

Battered it - 21 seconds


----------



## Buddfox (21 Jul 2016)

Jeez Froome is just miles ahead of the competition this year...


----------



## jarlrmai (21 Jul 2016)

What a ride.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Some good rides there - Bardet, Aru, even Quintana came back well - but Froome is in a totally different class from all of them.


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

Aru and Bardet both doing excellent rides. I half expected Porte to flop but credit, he didn't


----------



## coffeejo (21 Jul 2016)

I fell asleep. Not sure if Froome won or if I'm still asleep.


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I fell asleep. Not sure if Froome won or if I'm still asleep.


More coffee needed...


----------



## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2016)

White jersey wise, Meintjes took a few seconds off Yates, but Yates still has a couple of minutes on him


----------



## ManiaMuse (21 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> So when Red Bull were winning it all then?


Guess that would be equivalent to Lance when he was winning but he was cheating...

(Not implying that Red Bull were ever caught bending the rules *cough cough flexi wings*)


----------



## HF2300 (21 Jul 2016)

ManiaMuse said:


> Guess that would be equivalent to Lance when he was winning but he was cheating...
> 
> (Not implying that Red Bull were ever caught bending the rules *cough cough flexi wings*)



Of course you'd never get any other F1 teams bending the rules...


----------



## HF2300 (21 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I fell asleep. Not sure if Froome won or if I'm still asleep.



You're still asleep. Froome abandoned last week.


----------



## Hill Wimp (21 Jul 2016)

TTS bore me senseless.

So how did Yates do?

Any change in the top 5 on the leaderboard?


----------



## T4tomo (21 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> exactly Quintana will need to make up more than 36 seconds as he will surely lose some time to Froome in the TTs. there is a limit to what you can gain on a descent too - he needs a serious attack up hill. I don't think cutting 6k off the top changes much, any attack just needs to start earlier, the steeper bits are in the forest anyway, bar a little section very close to the top.





smutchin said:


> That's less certain than in previous years. Nairo matched Froome's time in the TT at Romandie in April, although that's not an especially useful indication of what to expect tomorrow, since it was less than half the distance and neither rider was at anything like their peak form at the time. However, what is clear is that Nairo has been working on his TT skillz in much the same way that Froome has been working on his descending. And on top of that, Movistar have the fastest TT bikes and skinsuits.
> 
> OTOH, the kind of form Froome is in, he'll probably smash it out of the park tomorrow.
> 
> We'll see!





Twizit said:


> I'm not so sure. Quintana has improved his TTs a lot this year and given one of them on the Tour is just uphill I don't think it's a given that Froome will gain loads of time. Suspect that's why Sky have been pinching seconds wherever they can.
> 
> Edit: Smutchin beat me to it - fairly similar points!



^^above all before the Ventoux stage^^


Indeed Froome has smashed it out of the park, or at least driven the bowler for a few fours, in the TT's and Quintana has slipped further back, I don't know if his conservatism is because he misguidedly thought he could gain time today, or more likely he just hasn't got the legs.

Still a lot of fun to be had in the minor places though, with Porte with 1.08s of all of Mollema, Yates, Quitharder, and Bardet. and surely on the attack tomorrow and Saturday. Porte and Yates to join Froome on the Podium for me


----------



## Twizit (21 Jul 2016)

Busted! Quintana surprised me today with further losses given it was a straight uphill TT which I would have thought would suit him.

I think you're right in that the minor places are where the fun will be over the next two days. Barring accidents or acts of god it really does look like Froome has this sewn up.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Thinking about Bauke Mollema's performance so far, I just remembered this incident from a few years ago...
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/attack-of-the-giggles-gary-and-chris-corpse

The reason for them corpsing was Phil Liggett referring to the young Dutchman as Bob Malka.


----------



## Buddfox (21 Jul 2016)

Feels a bit like Froome is becoming the Schumacher of cycling. His preparation is way ahead of the competition (and I don't mean that kind of preparation), he's supported by the best team with the biggest budget, and he appears to have the extra drive that the competition lacks, pushing the bar higher. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's becoming a bit predictable and a little less interesting as a result. Which is a shame, because this tour has thrown up some fantastic stages.

Thankfully the race for places 2 to 5 will provide the entertainment for the next two stages!


----------



## Crackle (21 Jul 2016)

I don't think Froome is boring. I have to go back to the Indurain years to find a time when I really wished someone else would win. That came along in the form of Riis and his now, infamous attack. So long ago, so naive......


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (21 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Feels a bit like Froome is becoming the Schumacher of cycling. His preparation is way ahead of the competition (and I don't mean that kind of preparation), he's supported by the best team with the biggest budget, and he appears to have the extra drive that the competition lacks, pushing the bar higher. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's becoming a bit predictable and a little less interesting as a result. Which is a shame, because this tour has thrown up some fantastic stages.
> 
> Thankfully the race for places 2 to 5 will provide the entertainment for the next two stages!


I have to admit this year's tour feels like it's over without the epic battles having even begun. Sure, there have been times when Froome really took the initiative, and the minor battles have provided sub-plot entertainment (special mention for Yates for quality of racing, plus of course the flaming rouge incident) but I feel almost cheated and am praying for a big surprise in the next couple of days.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (21 Jul 2016)

I know it is nice to have Brits finally winning and all, but as others have said, it is now getting bit dull for everyone else.


----------



## SWSteve (21 Jul 2016)

1'08" between 2 and 6, very tight racing. I think we'll see Porte pick up some seconds in the next couple of days, and may end up on the podium


----------



## Mike_P (21 Jul 2016)

Could have been a different story this year except for puncture Porte got. On the other had the way everyone is saying the yellow jersey is sealed is tempting fate a bit...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jul 2016)

It always makes me chuckle when people say the GC is dull and predictable "now" - like it was always gripping stuff going down to the wire "then"...


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

I know people have started moaning about Sky buying up the best support riders by throwing their money around but it doesn't really seem that way to me.
Henao, Nieve, Thomas, Poels, Rowe, Stannard were hardly stellar road riders when they were hired. Poels was considered fairly left field when he was hired. Henao was virtually unknown, Thomas a trackie largely. Rowe and Stannard classics wannabees...


----------



## rich p (21 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> It always makes me chuckle when people say the GC is dull and predictable "now" - like it was always gripping stuff going down to the wire "then"...


Who is saying that?
Just that given all the great stages, it would be a properly classic race if there was at least one challenger to Froome.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I know people have started moaning about Sky buying up the best support riders by throwing their money around but it doesn't really seem that way to me.
> Henao, Nieve, Thomas, Poels, Rowe, Stannard were hardly stellar road riders when they were hired. Poels was considered fairly left field when he was hired. Henao was virtually unknown, Thomas a trackie largely. Rowe and Stannard classics wannabees...


The Kenyan Barloworld bloke was hardly "on fire" when he went to Sky.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Who is saying that?


Dicks. Not you. But dicks in general.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> The Kenyan Barloworld bloke was hardly "on fire" when he went to Sky.



*Symptoms of schistosomiasis [bilharzia]*
• a high temperature (fever) above 38C (100.4F)


----------



## Crandoggler (21 Jul 2016)

It's not dull. If Froome is willing to train as hard as he obviously has done, then the other teams need to do the same. This is a business at the end of the day, they need to step up and make it exciting. Otherwise Froome will just keep doing what he does best.


----------



## smutchin (21 Jul 2016)

Mike_P said:


> Could have been a different story this year except for puncture Porte got.



Puncture schmuncture. Porte always finds an excuse to lose time one way or another.

He actually lost a bigger chunk of time on the first time trial. And although he was unlucky to puncture when he did on stage 2, there's no excuse for not having a team mate nearby to help. He needn't have lost as much time as he did.


----------



## mjr (21 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Everytime I see Froome roll down that start ramp I think of that TT crash from his Barloworld days.
> 
> 
> View: https://youtu.be/7DCe4QVO0PE?t=15



That his under 23 crash? He wasn't even pro then, yet alone on his second team of Barloworld.


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

Stage 19 starts with a climb straight from the off at about 8.5km at 6.3% uncategorised! Looks like a tough category 2 to me.

Stage 15 had a category 2 climb - 8.8km at 5.6%


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Feels a bit like Froome is becoming the Schumacher of cycling.


I hope he doesn't take up skiing then.


----------



## perplexed (22 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Is it just my imagination (I have only seen this occasionally so far), but are there more kids running alongside the riders now?
> I don't remember seeing kids doing that, only adults, and yet, yesterday and today, I have seen one or two kids doing it.
> 
> I do wonder if they are starting getting kids to do it now so that if Froome lamps them or whatever then he'll be in deep sh*t!




No, you're not wrong - I thought the same, and I find it somehow deeply unpleasant. Drunken pillocks doing it is bad enough, but when it's children, often quite young ones at that, screaming in the face of an adult, no. What the hell are the parents doing allowing it? They clearly can't control their children, or they are condoning it - and this is post Ventoux events, it's not like they don't know what can happen.

A couple of days ago, a skinny kid was running alongside a rider for a good 100 metres - thankfully, another spectator in a AG2R top yanked him to one side - I've wondered since if the kid's father went lumbering up the hill, saying 'Oi, get yer 'ands off our lad or al batter yer...'...

Some little snot made a fake 'lunge' at Froome yesterday, with fists clenched - he must have been all of 11 or 12 at the most.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> No, you're not wrong - I thought the same, and I find it somehow deeply unpleasant. Drunken pillocks doing it is bad enough, but when it's children, often quite young ones at that, screaming in the face of an adult, no. What the hell are the parents doing allowing it? They clearly can't control their children, or they are condoning it - and this is post Ventoux events, it's not like they don't know what can happen.
> 
> A couple of days ago, a skinny kid was running alongside a rider for a good 100 metres - thankfully, another spectator in a AG2R top yanked him to one side - I've wondered since if the kids father went lumbering up the hill, saying 'Oi, get yer 'ands off our lad or al batter yer...'...
> 
> Some little snot made a fake 'lunge' at Froome yesterday, with fists clenched - he must have been all of 11 or 12 at the most.


If we're talking about the same runner who was pulled out of the road by another spectator, I'd describe him as a young man rather than a kid, which to my mind implies 12 and under.


----------



## perplexed (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> If we're talking about the same runner who was pulled out of the road by another spectator, I'd describe him as a young man rather than a kid, which to my mind implies 12 and under.



I think we may be thinking of a different one, it was certainly a child - although I've no doubt you're quite correct, I'm sure adults have been hoiked off too.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> A couple of days ago, a skinny kid was running alongside a rider for a good 100 metres - thankfully, another spectator in a AG2R top yanked him to one side - I've wondered since if the kids father went lumbering up the hill, saying 'Oi, get yer 'ands off our lad or al batter yer...'...


Was that the one where the spectator managed to grab his flailing arm so that the kid's momentum swung him round away from the cyclists? Exceptionally good catch that.


----------



## perplexed (22 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Was that the one where the spectator managed to grab his flailing arm so that the kid's momentum swung him round away from the cyclists? Exceptionally good catch that.



Yes, that's the one - deftly done I thought. Can't recall who the rider was.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> I think we may be thinking of a different one, it was certainly a child - although I've no doubt you're quite correct, I'm sure adults have been hoiked off too.


Fair enough.


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

The cyclist was from AG2R - that's why the bloke in the AG2R shirt grabbed him.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> I'm sure adults have been hoiked off too.



Oh, matron...


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

We won't see much of Sagan today - intermediate sprint at about 25km


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Coverage starts at 12.00 today for the lazy feckers and ne'er do wells amongst you us


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

Last 3 days all shown from the start


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Coverage starts at 12.00 today for the lazy feckers and ne'er do wells amongst you us



Here's the schedule (French times) so you can decide when it's worth starting to watch...

Start - ALBERTVILLE 13h10
Intermediate sprint - DOUSSARD 13h49-13h54
Col de la Forclaz de Montmin [Cat 1] (1 157 m) 14h24-14h33
Col de la Forclaz de Queige [Cat 2] (870 m) 15h08-15h22
Montée de Bisanne [HC] (1 723 m) 15h55-16h15
Vervex (start of final climb) 16h47-17h12
Finish - Le Bettex [Cat 1] (1 372 m) 17h09-17h39


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

I think that its worth watching from the start if you have the time, because there's that big climb straight away, (see my previous post), where there will be attacks, IMO.


----------



## Shadow (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> lazy feckers and ne'er do wells amongst you us


Speak for yourself! While enjoying a leisurely breakfast, looked at tv coverage and have been rushing around like the proverbial blue-arsed fly ever since to get everything done before 12.00!


----------



## Shadow (22 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> I think that its worth watching from the start if you have the time, because there's that big climb straight away, (see my previous post), where there will be attacks, IMO.


Agreed. There might be a lull later on but I intend to brave thru the whole afternoon in front of the tv!


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> I think that its worth watching from the start if you have the time, because there's that big climb straight away, (see my previous post), where there will be attacks, IMO.



Would like to veg out in front of the telly for the whole stage but got too much work to do. I am intending to go to the pub to watch the denouement though, hopefully from around 2pm.

Not that fussed about watching the early attacks tbh. You can bet Sagan and Majka will be involved, plus take your pick from a long list of usual suspects. Can't see it getting really interesting until they get to the Montée de Bisanne, where Movistar and Astana might form an unholy alliance to put pressure on Sky – but then again it might be a damp squib if they choose instead save their attacks for the final climb.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> ... Movistar and Astana might form an unholy alliance to put pressure on Sky – but then again it might be a damp squib if they choose instead save their attacks for the final climb.



They haven't exactly been full of innovative tactics this Tour. I'm inclined to predict damp squib.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Shadow said:


> have been rushing around like the proverbial blue-arsed fly ever since to get everything done before 12.00!


Ditto. Made it with three minutes to spare. Still got things to do but they can be done from the sofa.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Ditto. Made it with three minutes to spare. Still got things to do but they can be done from the sofa.



Is eating cake one of them?


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

I'm a trifle late back in from a short ride but........


----------



## summerdays (22 Jul 2016)

What are they doing?


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They haven't exactly been full of innovative tactics this Tour. I'm inclined to predict damp squib.



Astana surprise us all!


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

The peloton should be wary of this, remembering what Nibali did at the Giro.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

It's all kicking offski.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Is eating cake one of them?


No cake 


summerdays said:


> What are they doing?


Not eating cake.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Who forgot to lubricate Nibali's bike this morning?


----------



## Hont (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They haven't exactly been full of innovative tactics this Tour. I'm inclined to predict damp squib.


I dunno. Astana riding on the front on Wednesday's stage to isolate their own team leader was fairly unusual.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> No cake .



Noooooooooo!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Noooooooooo!


I know! 

Also not getting anything done as the race has been interesting since the start. That's not meant to happen!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Sky must be loving this, letting Astana do all the work


----------



## EnPassant (22 Jul 2016)

500W for 5 minutes and see who's still there?
Yes I know it's another league, but please stop rubbing it in, I might be past it and never even was it, but one (well, this one) likes to live this vicariously and sort of imagine... however impractical and improbable that may be....
That sort of comment just reminds me I'm comparing my Ford Focus to the latest F1 machine and I can't make the imaginative leap even remotely.

If I found some way to attach my hand held smoothie blender thing to the cranks I'd only need to find the other 200W, might manage that without an oxygen tent I suppose.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

ITV and their work breaks


----------



## psmiffy (22 Jul 2016)

I think that that the live track is suffering from a Denial of Service attack - preliminary investigations indicate it is being orchestrated from an organisation known as "Cycle Chat"


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Not sure why I've got the subtitles on, but they keep me amused. So far they've told me someone won a stage over Marcia (whoever she is), a gap of 15 Bakelants has opened up between two groups, and in a strange EPO fuelled '90s flashback that Pantani is in the lead group.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Sounds like P&P do the subs


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I know!
> 
> Also not getting anything done as the race has been interesting since the start. That's not meant to happen!



I rather stupidly decided to do some techy stuff, which has meant I've had to go and get the laptop to keep up with CC and the tracker.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

'I wanted to do something special so I ordered a Moonpig card. I only ordered it yesterday!'

So, what you're saying is you left it to the last moment and took the easy option of ordering some tat online rather than leave the house? For your mum who clearly means so much to you? Amazon voucher as well, was it? FFS.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Sounds like P&P do the subs



No, they're too accurate and haven't said anything about liking calling things a false flat yet


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

(So much for getting work done - I made the mistake of having the Tour on in a background window...)


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Was that Yates off the back for a bike change? And chute de Dumoulin & Teklehaimanot. It's all suddenly happening.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Was that Yates off the back for a bike change? And chute de Dumoulin & Teklehaimanot. It's all suddenly happening.


Yup. And Luke Rowe gave him a push forwards even as he fell off the back.


----------



## Dayvo (22 Jul 2016)

Norwegian Eurosport reports that Tom Dumoulin is out of the race after the slow-speed crash.


----------



## brommers (22 Jul 2016)

Tom D abandons - seen crying with a potential Olympic threating injury - I hope not


----------



## Dayvo (22 Jul 2016)

Presumably he fell awkwardly and damaged his wrist/arm/collar-bone.

Hope he recovers for the Olympics.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Talking about injured, possibly broken hand / wrist. That'd be awful to be out of the Olympics for a silly minor crash like that.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Presumably he fell awkwardly and damaged his wrist/arm/collar-bone.
> 
> Hope he recovers for the Olympics.


He was holding his wrist after the crash. As Millar said, if it's a broken wrist then his Olympics is probably over before ut has even begun.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Ok, so Tom Dumoulin's fall wasn't funny but someone just fell off their snowboard live on international television.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

No, don't go to another ad break, itv4. You've piqued my interest with the "what is Froome doing?" speculation!


----------



## T4tomo (22 Jul 2016)

oo oh - looks like rain coming for the descent. Surprised but not surprised that none of GC contenders attacked on the big climb, once again leaving it to the last little climb, unless Nibali and Aru try an attack on the descent


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> 'I wanted to do something special so I ordered a Moonpig card. I only ordered it yesterday!'
> 
> So, what you're saying is you left it to the last moment and took the easy option of ordering some tat online rather than leave the house? For your mum who clearly means so much to you? Amazon voucher as well, was it? FFS.


I wanted what the hell you were going on about but I've just seen it. She strikes me as a feckless individual caught up entirely in her own life. I didn't see any pictures of mum either.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Internet is being very temperamental so can some one give us an update please. Especially on Froome, last I saw he wasn't up the front.

Rolland down


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Pierre Rolland is down. Ouch.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Froome back in the train


----------



## T4tomo (22 Jul 2016)

ouch nasty slide off from Rolland. 

I hadn't particularly notice until now but Cannondales team socks are rather cool.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Rolland's off again! Do they have to keep making me wince


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Rolland rolling gingerly

You can stop showing it now.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Rolland's off again! Do they have to keep making me wince





Crackle said:


> Rolland rolling gingerly
> 
> You can stop showing it now.


Was about to post the same thing!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Blimey it's pretty wet up front


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Blimey it's pretty wet up front



They're showing an advert for Stenaline


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

The wusses are only doing 30mph downhill in the pissing rain!!!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They're showing an advert for Stenaline


I switch between ITV and ES in the ad breaks


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

That Staysure couple are taking mum on holiday. Callous moonpig woman could learn a thing or two from that.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Oh no, the x factor is back


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> The wusses are only doing 30mph downhill in the pissing rain!!!


You say that but Reichenbach falls!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Porte gaffs again


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> You say that but Reichenbach falls!


I was really being in awe that they do 30 even in that weather


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

This is looking treacherous now.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Porte gaffs again



What's he done? ITV just had three days of adverts in one go.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

false flat Ned


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I was really being in awe that they do 30 even in that weather


I know, just wanted to be first with the Reichenbach gag this time.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> What's he done? ITV just had three days of adverts in one go.


Crashed I think.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> What's he done? ITV just had three days of adverts in one go.


He either fell or a mechanical but the cameras missed it


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> He either fell or a mechanical but the cameras missed it



Like for the reply, not Porte dropping back


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Rui Costa seems unfazed by the weather.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Rui Costa doesn't do much of the work? How could they say such a thing?


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I know, just wanted to be first with the Reichenbach gag this time.



I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Matthews on the front for Yates.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

More adverts!


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

Damn work. I seem to be spending more time flicking between websites and clicking on "refresh" than anything else today. Looking forward to highlights this evening. Also doesn't help that the cricket is on today


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist.


Like every live feed and twitter feed.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Porte must have been a bad boy in a previous life - poor bugger


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

He's back on now but at what effort


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> No, you're not wrong - I thought the same, and I find it somehow deeply unpleasant. Drunken pillocks doing it is bad enough, but when it's children, often quite young ones at that, screaming in the face of an adult, no. What the hell are the parents doing allowing it? They clearly can't control their children, or they are condoning it - and this is post Ventoux events, it's not like they don't know what can happen.
> 
> A couple of days ago, a skinny kid was running alongside a rider for a good 100 metres - thankfully, another spectator in a AG2R top yanked him to one side - I've wondered since if the kid's father went lumbering up the hill, saying 'Oi, get yer 'ands off our lad or al batter yer...'...
> 
> Some little snot made a fake 'lunge' at Froome yesterday, with fists clenched - he must have been all of 11 or 12 at the most.



Just saw a boy of about 12 running along with a Slovakian flag (presumably for Sagan) a few minutes ago.

Anyway, just as long as they don't get in the way and all that.....


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Like every live feed and twitter feed.



I knew millions of people wouldn't be able to resist.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Daryl Impey, the doping git, has put in a big stint


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Apparently there's been another crash. Apparently.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Apparently there's been another crash. Apparently.


Mollema!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Another crash. Navarro looks pretty beaten up.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Froome's down!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Froome's down!


And Nibali with him.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Fresh tarmac.

Bardet off the front

Froome down


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Blimey


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Froome's on a borrowed bike and back with the sky train.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Although hindsight is a wonderful thing, I think this demonstrates why sometimes you need to be bold. There was a point on the previous climb where Froome was right at the back of the group and not with his team, and Millar and Boulting debated whether it was a moment to attack. Someone might have done, got a gap which might not have been a priority to chase down, but would now be out front and able to take advantage of the conditions. Who knows what happens from here, but it would be great to see an attack somewhere other than the last climb.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Nibali did the splits.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Although hindsight is a wonderful thing, I think this demonstrates why sometimes you need to be bold. There was a point on the previous climb where Froome was right at the back of the group and not with his team, and Millar and Boulting debated whether it was a moment to attack. Someone might have done, got a gap which might not have been a priority to chase down, but would now be out front and able to take advantage of the conditions. Who knows what happens from here, but it would be great to see an attack somewhere other than the last climb.


That's what happened just now. Bardet attacked, Froome and Nibali chased and both went down in the wet.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Bloody internet! How far behind is Froome? Looks like he is back with the main group?


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Who the heck's where.....Costa...bardet...peloton it seems.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> That's what happened just now. Bardet attacked, Froome and Nibali chased and both went down in the wet.



Could be an interesting move - and Froome still has to get his bike back. If there was ever a moment for the challengers...


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Bloody internet! How far behind is Froome? Looks like he is back with the main group?


Rui Costa on his own. Bardet 42 secs behind. Froome back with the peleton, 1min30 down. Mollema trailing behind.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

The tour ticker says Froome slipped on a painting.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Who the heck's where.....Costa...bardet...peloton it seems.


yep


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> If there was ever a moment for the challengers...



None of whom have shown any sign of taking advantage of the opportunity, yet at least.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Good move by Bardet but can he hang on for 9km


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> The tour ticker says Froome slipped on a painting.




The painted white line in the middle of the road, if anyone’s wondering.


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

Anyone know where Yates is - presume in the peloton?

From what I can see Mollema is behind so Yates up into 2nd on the road???


----------



## T4tomo (22 Jul 2016)

School boy error! 

Froome still on Geraints bike, why doesn't Quintana or Porte or Yates attack?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Anyone know where Yates is - presume in the peloton?
> 
> From what I can see Mollema is behind so Yates up into 2nd on the road???



Yates is in the main group


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Anyone know where Yates is - presume in the peloton?
> 
> *From what I can see Mollema is behind so Yates up into 2nd on the road*???


They're saying Yates having the best day of all the gc contenders so I assume so.


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Navarro's abandoned.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> School boy error!
> 
> Froome still on Geraints bike, why doesn't Quintana or Porte or Yates attack?


They're at the limit, I guess. 

As for Quintana, been waiting three weeks


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Yates is in the main group





coffeejo said:


> They're saying Yates having the best day of all the gc contenders so I assume so.



thanks both!!


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

I like Bardet he's a classy rider


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> Anyone know where Yates is - presume in the peloton?
> 
> From what I can see Mollema is behind so Yates up into 2nd on the road???


apart from Bardet being ahead of him


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Navarro's abandoned.


Not surprised. He looked effing awful.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Dan Martin shaping up for another bold but ultimately fruitless effort?


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Bardet looks fresh as a daisy.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Good move by Bardet but can he hang on for 9km


Doing well thus far.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Yates needs to get time back on Bardet if he has anything more nearer the top


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Bardet looks fresh as a daisy.



Costa's just going to sit on him and snatch it back tho.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Wonder if Froome has given up on getting his bike back and just moved up to the front...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

They're bringing Bardet back.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

G's Garmin data is screwed for the day!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> They're bringing Bardet back.


Taken nearly a minute back.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Wonder if Froome has given up on getting his bike back and just moved up to the front...



Hopefully not cursing him, but he looks fine on the bike he is on.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

The Froomeinator has adapted.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

I'll report his Strava segment later.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> G's Garmin data is screwed for the day!



If he is on Strava I'm flagging his ride


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> The Froomeinator has adapted.


At least he's not running.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Porte may attack at some point


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Porte may attack at some point



If he's recovered from his chase back on.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Porte may attack at some point


Did we find out if he crashed or had a mechanical?


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

BMC attack coming?


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Hopefully not cursing him, but he looks fine on the bike he is on.


Only 3cm height difference between them so you'd hope that wouldn't make it too difficult for Froome on G's bike


----------



## T4tomo (22 Jul 2016)

Froome doesn't seem bothered about getting his bike back, mind Rosa is flying up to Bardet so I guess he does fancy chasing back the gap a change will create. 

Yates at mo going ahead of Molema who is a bit isolated 30s ish behind the pack


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Bardet getting caught


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

4kms to go.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Oooh, was that Quintana keeping up with bmc?


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

BMC really going for it on the front - Porte feeling good still then and looking for that podium


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Ooooh, looking tasty for the last 3km


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Poels looks like he could win GC insane strength.


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

From Rob Hatch on the BBC:

"No-one is really taking advantage of an opportunity to attack Chris Froome. We've hardly seen Nairo Quintana all day. "

All day??? More like all tour....


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Quintana is looking good though...


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Ole Toothy goes for it.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Can Dan M do it?????


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Quintana is looking good though...


Hard to tell on my iphone!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Dan Martin goes, Bardet spits Rui Costa off the back wheel.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Did we find out if he crashed or had a mechanical?


no!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Porte going for it?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Pulled him back. Bardet is keeping the time gap now, can he hold on?


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Froome really doesn't look comfortable at this point... (with good reason!)


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Martin still going but peloton staying strong. Except for Yates.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Yates gapped, Martin pulled back


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Oh no Yates blows


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Is that Aru dangling?


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Martin caught. Again.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Here we go...


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Yates recovered, but Porte attacks


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Yates has caught up. Porte attacks and takes Quintana with him.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Yates!


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

I really think Froome is going to lose some time here


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Aru moves.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Yates yoyoing again


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> I really think Froome is going to lose some time here



Have faith.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (22 Jul 2016)

Froome is a machine


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

C'mon Bardet.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

1 km


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Aru's gob isn't aerodynamic


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Valverde spits out aru


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Porte "going backwards"


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Considering he is on a borrowed bike this is a great ride from Froome


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Bardet recovers French honour.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Hats off to Bardet...


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Great opportunism by Bardet


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Bardet!


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

Nice to see Purito come in ahead of the rest.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

All things being considered, that was a great ride by Froome


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Froome crawls over the line.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

After all that, Froome has probably extended his lead


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Great stage!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Guessing from that celebration, Bardet is in 2nd?


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Guessing from that celebration, Bardet is in 2nd?


Yes


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Great stage!


Another one!


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

I thought Yates got in just quick enough - around a minute in hand over Bardet? Yates 2nd, Bardet 3rd??


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> I thought Yates got in just quick enough - around a minute in hand over Bardet? Yates 2nd, Bardet 3rd??



Imlach saying Yates might be down to fourth, Quintana up to third...


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> I thought Yates got in just quick enough - around a minute in hand over Bardet? Yates 2nd, Bardet 3rd??


Froome, Bardet, Quintana, Yates.


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Bardet recovers French honour.


Ned and Dave jinxed him into the win by pointing out that no-one from France, Spain or Italy had won a stage yet. I liked Ned ranting at him for slowing to do his jersey up instead of taking as many seconds as possible.



Crackle said:


> That Staysure couple are taking mum on holiday.


Staysure aren't the best for covering medical conditions, hence the annoying adverts.



Twizit said:


> Also doesn't help that the cricket is on today


Your avatar's bat appears to be illegally oversize!


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Bardet gets time bonus


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Froome, Bardet, Quintana, Yates.


Ah ok thanks - I stand corrected - no sound on my feed - might give me away in the office


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

I'm happy to see Bardet finally do something!


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2016)

Ad criticism:

Pro-form Fitness Bike, with rideable stages from the 2013 Tour and they're damned well not putting in new stages until Froome stops winning and the USA has a contender again.

Amigo loans: too proud to ask your friends for money but not too proud to drop them in the shoot if you default? We'll help you fleece them!

GoDaddy: RyanAir for websites. Fly to Dublin for 99p and then pay loads

TSB: the Thatcher-Snatched Bank that we all used to own.

Skoda: the motor company that thinks cyclists are fakey-racey nobbers.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

View: https://youtu.be/gXCN1DhHTZA


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Ad criticism:
> 
> Pro-form Fitness Bike, with rideable stages from the 2013 Tour and they're damned well not putting in new stages until Froome stops winning and the USA has a contender again.
> 
> ...



You missed the Sunlife one - I want a new pen but I aren't old enough yet for Sunlife plans


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2016)

Dan Martin giving big props to his tyre sponsor. To be fair, Specialized tyres do seem fairly grippy, but for mere mortals like me who don't have the TdF road-sweepers in front, they seem to grip a lot of shoot too, which punctures them eventually.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Edit : this was yesterday's. Oops.


----------



## Buddfox (22 Jul 2016)

Just had a quick look back at the top 10 GCs from the last four years, back to 2012, and this year is significantly more competitive. 10th place rider is 7.42 down on Froome, who has 4.11 on the 2nd place, so riders 2 to 10 are unusually closely bunched (10th place has been 17 to 21 minutes down). Should make for a great stage tomorrow as well.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> View attachment 135738



That's yesterdays


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

Who cares about Froome on Thomas's bike, lets hear from the dodgy toothed Frenchman!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> That's yesterdays


I know. They updated the homepage but not the finalised one and guess who forgot to read the damn thing.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

Enjoyed that finale. Really very happy indeed for Bardet - especially for getting ahead of clay-footed Nairo. Shame for Mollema and Yates though. Cheers!


----------



## mjr (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> You missed the Sunlife one - I want a new pen but I aren't old enough yet for Sunlife plans


And Sky - never mind the bias, feel the broadband reliability? Or Ian Botham being the latest celebrity to push a health gadget? Cheap non-name non-recycled who-knows-what-chemicals cards printed and posted from overseas (presumably not paying tax here)? Loans with 1294.1% interest?

It's almost that if any products you're considering appear in an itv4 daytime advert, it's probably time to look for better advice.


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

Porte had a crash.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

There we go, @rich p: Porte confirms he crashed.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

Found out at last - did Porte crash or have a mechanical..........


the answer is I still don't know as I am watching at work and can't hear the interview!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Found out at last - did Porte crash or have a mechanical..........
> 
> 
> the answer is I still don't know as I am watching at work and can't hear the interview!


Too slow


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Too slow



I am working you know


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2016)

Tomorrow should be a ding dong for second and third


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

In amongst the chaos Froome actually increased his lead as someone said earlier: 3:54 to 4:11


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

Nibali is a nobber, but I do like his attitude to falling off. "Sh!t happens!" And it's almost a shame he did the Giro because he would have been a worthy rival to Froome.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I am working you know


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2016)

I want a donkey but I can't choose which one, they're all so damn cute!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> In amongst the chaos Froome actually increased his lead as aomeone said earlier: 3:54 to 4:11


That's what I was trying to work out with my failed screenshot.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2016)

Congratulations to Bardet, first French win on the TdF this year. I believe Bardet will win the Tour in the next 3 years .


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Here come the crashes again.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Porte had a crash.



There's unlucky and there's Richie Porte.


----------



## Twizit (22 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> There's unlucky and there's Richie Porte.


He's the new G. Speaking of which... I don't remember G having fallen off this year - is that a first???


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> He's the new G. Speaking of which... I don't remember G having fallen off this year - is that a first???


Two days left...


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

Twizit said:


> He's the new G. Speaking of which... I don't remember G having fallen off this year - is that a first???



He has definitely fallen off at least once. Think he was involved in the Gerrans incident, and I don't think that was his first crash in this Tour.


----------



## Dave Davenport (22 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> He has definitely fallen off at least once. Think he was involved in the Gerrans incident, and I don't think that was his first crash in this Tour.


Didn't he crash on stage one, same time as Contador?


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2016)

Most interesting stage so far in many ways. Bravo Bardet, a worthy winner. Quintana in 3rd now, does not in any way deserve that, he just follows wheels and hardly willing to risk anything to gain time. Aru, Porte and Martin are at least giving it a go.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I want a donkey but I can't choose which one, there all so damn cute!



Bardet, he has the teeth for a start!!

Seriously though, with, I imagine French TV all over him, was it really beyond the wit of the itv muppets to get a quickly translated interview from him?


.... Or was he not 'British' enough?


----------



## HF2300 (22 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Ned and Dave jinxed him into the win by pointing out that no-one from France, Spain or Italy had won a stage yet.



Can you jinx someone into a success?


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Bardet, he has the teeth for a start!!
> 
> Seriously though, with, I imagine French TV all over him, was it really beyond the wit of the itv muppets to get a quickly translated interview from him?
> 
> ...


Probably couldn't get within ten feet of him.


----------



## Dayvo (22 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Nibali is a nobber



That works well with the 'Gordon is a moron' melody.


----------



## Crackle (22 Jul 2016)

Geraint Thomas interview

_Geraint Thomas explained how he gave Froome his bike after the race leader crashed.

"I could see Froome on the front and he was saying chill on the radio but he doesn’t do chill, does he," Thomas said. 

"All of a sudden he’s on the floor and going ‘I need a bike, I need a bike,’ so I gave him mine. Then I waited for the team car although they did drive past me."

"I wasn’t going to run to the finish but luckily they stopped a few hundred meters later and I got on this, and that was that." 
_


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Geraint Thomas interview
> 
> _Geraint Thomas explained how he gave Froome his bike after the race leader crashed.
> 
> ...


"and that was that"


----------



## jarlrmai (22 Jul 2016)

G's interviews are always ace.


----------



## Dayvo (22 Jul 2016)

And Froome was further motivated by the dragon on the top tube of GT's bike.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

So, Bardet's deficit to Froome is 4.11. Of that, 3.31 was lost in the two time trials alone... ASO, you know what you need to do! 

Looking ahead to tomorrow, we know Quintana and Bardet can go downhill a bit sharpish, but what's Yates's descending like? The descent to Morzine could be a corker.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2016)

I hope the descent will be on dry roads tomorrow.


----------



## ManiaMuse (22 Jul 2016)

"I knew the car was quite a while back and my bike wasn't rideable, *so thanks a lot to Geraint for his bike. It was alright.*"

Lol.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Probably couldn't get within ten feet of him.



That's the thing though, do they not have any journos from neutral sources/freelancers?


Anyway, not that it matters much I guess.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> That's the thing though, do they not have any journos from neutral sources/freelancers?
> 
> 
> Anyway, not that it matters much I guess.


I don't suppose they could get within 7 feet of Bardet!


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I don't suppose they could get within 7 feet of Bardet!



A microphone on a stick is what you need!


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Watching the highlights. The Rolland crash still makes me wince, which I assume is nothing to how he feels right now.


----------



## Booyaa (22 Jul 2016)

Yates lost the white jersey. Hopefully he goes on the attack tomorrow. Not quite sure how it is worked out mind.

Edit: Scrap that - reading the wrong thing.


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

I wasn't paying attention. What's this about a ten second time penalty for Yates?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I wasn't paying attention. What's this about a ten second time penalty for Yates?



Got a push from a team mate


----------



## coffeejo (22 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Got a push from a team mate


Ta.


----------



## smutchin (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Watching the highlights. The Rolland crash still makes me wince, which I assume is nothing to how he feels right now.



Rolland didn't look happy...

And after the crash he looked even more miserable than usual.


----------



## philtalksbx (22 Jul 2016)

Yates' push was from Luke Rowe, or was there another one?


----------



## Supersuperleeds (22 Jul 2016)

philtalksbx said:


> Yates' push was from Luke Rowe, or was there another one?



There was another one.


----------



## philtalksbx (22 Jul 2016)

Ah, ok, shame, 9 secs was easier to bridge than 19 to Quitta


----------



## SWSteve (22 Jul 2016)

Hot and dry for tomorrow, please. Bigger Nairo up with the heat and drop him before the decent, then Yates to get white jersey and podium. 

All of down to the local Yate's for a swift half afterwards I reckon


----------



## Strathlubnaig (22 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I wasn't paying attention. What's this about a ten second time penalty for Yates?


Handsling early in race


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2016)




----------



## Louch (22 Jul 2016)

Miller was a bit embarrassing the way he was going on about Froome on Thomas bike. I get that oval are different, but no enough for how he gushed


----------



## Andy_R (22 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Miller was a bit embarrassing the way he was going on about Froome on Thomas bike. I get that oval are different, but no enough for how he gushed


Enough for Froome to choose to use them, train on them, and race on them.....horses for courses and all that.....if he's trained all season on ovals and has to use round there is going to be a world of difference for him. His power stroke has to be delivered differently. It's like running across a field in studs and then using spikes. Don't forget that teamSKY's mantra has always been "Incremental gains"...or in the words of Tesco, "Every little helps"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2016)

Andy_R said:


> Enough for Froome to choose to use them, train on them, and race on them.....horses for courses and all that.....if he's trained all season on ovals and has to use round there is going to be a world of difference for him. His power stroke has to be delivered differently. It's like running across a field in studs and then using spikes.


Nonsense


----------



## Andy_R (22 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Nonsense


Really? Then why does he use them? Give me your personal experience...or is it just an opinion?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2016)

Andy_R said:


> Really? Then why does he use them? Give me your personal experience...or is it just an opinion?


You claimed that Froome will have experienced a "world of difference" - utter bollocks.


----------



## Crandoggler (22 Jul 2016)

Millar had a right hard on about the bikes didn't he. It's not as if G rides a Halfords special is it! And even if he did, I'm sure that Froome would have been able to ride up the hill just as fast on a fixie that was 2 sizes too small.


----------



## gavroche (22 Jul 2016)

Still waiting for the interview of Bardet. Luckily, I got it on France2 channel. I think ITV4 is a bit biased towards English speaking riders only. ( Don't know if Bardet speaks English though).


----------



## Buck (22 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Hot and dry for tomorrow, please. Bigger Nairo up with the heat and drop him before the decent, then Yates to get white jersey and podium.
> 
> All of down to the local Yate's for a swift half afterwards I reckon



Forecast for tomorrow's stage is 22-23C and more thunderstorms.


----------



## Big Dave laaa (22 Jul 2016)

Imagine worrying about something as simple as a bike that fits. Not as if he had a mountain to climb or had to compete with the best cyclists on the planet. Of course it made a bloody difference.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (22 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> Imagine worrying about something as simple as a bike that fits. Not as if he had a mountain to climb or had to compete with the best cyclists on the planet. Of course it made a bloody difference.


What difference did it make?


----------



## Buck (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> What difference did it make?



In real terms the relative gain/loss will be minimal but it will still be there. Perhaps he will have had to work x% harder? Perhaps his recovery will take x% longer. So many factors at play that we can only guess. 

Truth is we'll never know.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (23 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Still waiting for the interview of Bardet. Luckily, I got it on France2 channel. I think ITV4 is a bit biased towards English speaking riders only. ( Don't know if Bardet speaks English though).



Although they do sometimes have people like Quintana and other peeps with subtitles on, so what the difference is I don't know.


----------



## Beebo (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> What difference did it make?


It cant be quantified, but it must make a difference, especially if you have just fallen off your own bike, and then have to trust someone elses.
Why do team put so much effort into bike fit if it didn't make a difference. 
Saddle height and bar measurement would be different, Froome's arms and legs are longer than Thomas and he may have different gear ratios.
Also would the heart rate monitor work, i presume not, so he would be riding on feel rather than riding to numbers to stop going into the red zone.


----------



## Tin Pot (23 Jul 2016)

Really enjoying watching them cycle round my favourite ski resorts


----------



## Mike_P (23 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> Also would the heart rate monitor work, i presume not, so he would be riding on feel rather than riding to numbers to stop going into the red zone.



Froome must know how well he his, red zone wise, in comparison with the rest of the Sky riders, so provided he stayed stuck to Wout Poels wheel he could presumably judge he would be okay. Could explain why the pair of them have been almost glued together so often if the have very similar physics.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (23 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Really enjoying watching them cycle round my favourite ski resorts


I have told friends going off on their winter holidays that they're "privileged" to be skiing in and around all those iconic cycling climbs.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

gavroche said:


> Still waiting for the interview of Bardet. Luckily, I got it on France2 channel. I think ITV4 is a bit biased towards English speaking riders only. ( Don't know if Bardet speaks English though).



I think ITV are biased towards interviews with whoever they can get hold of in the time available; and I suspect a French rider, riding for a French team, who'd just won a stage and jumped to 2nd on GC might have been a little in demand by the French media...


----------



## psmiffy (23 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Really enjoying watching them cycle round my favourite ski resorts



Really enjoy watching them ride a lot of roads that I have ridden - apart from a couple of stages there has been at least 10k of each stage that I have ridden


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

For all the drama of the last climb, still can't help feeling that was a bit of a damp squib overall. All Astana's work on the front didn't really seem to lead to anything, no-one really attacked Froome when they had the opportunity*, the tactics were again highly conventional 'wait till the last climb' stuff (which was unlikely to realistically threaten Froome), and much of the GC shake up was due to riders crashing (Mollema) or running out of legs (Yates) - though I appreciate that where riders cracked or weren't able to seriously attack it was probably because of the pace set by Astana, Sky and to an extent BMC.

Just wondering to what extent the other GC contenders have simply run out of legs or didn't have it in the first place, and to what extent they've mentally settled for fighting for podium rather than yellow, or even just defending the places they're in.

Be interesting to see what happens today, but really they're just scrapping for the minor placings. Hope Yates has a good day though, it'd be good to see him in the top 3 and Quintana's 19 seconds looks quite vulnerable.

*(except possibly Bardet, but I can't recall the timing - I thought Bardet and his team-mate had set it up and possibly attacked before Froome's crash)


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> *(except possibly Bardet, but I can't recall the timing - I thought Bardet and his team-mate had set it up and possibly attacked before Froome's crash)


Yup. Other than silly cycling, Bardet is the reason that Froome and Nibali crashed. He attacked and they gave chase, which literally led to their downfall.


----------



## Tin Pot (23 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> Really enjoy watching them ride a lot of roads that I have ridden - apart from a couple of stages there has been at least 10k of each stage that I have ridden



Mmm, I'll have to do a summer trip to the Alps some time. Looks great.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Andy_R said:


> Enough for Froome to choose to use them, train on them, and race on them.....horses for courses and all that.....if he's trained all season on ovals and has to use round there is going to be a world of difference for him. His power stroke has to be delivered differently. It's like running across a field in studs and then using spikes. Don't forget that teamSKY's mantra has always been "Incremental gains"...or in the words of Tesco, "Every little helps"



It wasn't like he has never ridden on a normal bike set up, and it wasn't like he was handed a tesco generic bike with forks wrong way around. He had to ride about 6 miles on a bike that was slightly different to his usual one. Every little may help, but he was hardly on a Clown bike. If he had then Millers praise would have been worthy. His over praise of sky this year after years of belittling their techniques when he was at Garmin is really disingenuous too


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

My brother is just heading out to bag a spot on the Joux Plane and paint "YATES" on the road. He says it's about 24°C and "sunny in places" at the moment. 

I'm not at all envious of him. The sod.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Big Dave laaa said:


> Of course it made a bloody difference.



In practical terms, no, it didn't. 



Buck said:


> Truth is we'll never know.





Beebo said:


> It cant be quantified,



What we do know, what can be quantified, is the time showing on the clock when he crossed the line. And really, that's all that matters.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2016)

Have just seen the Froome crash again. He could have chosen the bike of any of his teammates as they were all behind him. So G's bike must be set-up closest to his.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Have just seen the Froome crash again. He could have chosen the bike of any of his teammates as they were all behind him. So G's bike must be set-up closest to his.



Partly that, partly down to which riders were going to be more useful to him on the final climb. Poels could possibly be an even closer match, given that he's the same height and build as Froome, but he was never going to leave Poels without a bike!


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> but he was never going to leave Poels without a bike!


Agreed


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Another minute's silence. Puts the race into context. 

And yet, vive le Tour!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Another minute's silence.


What for?


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> What for?



The Munich shootings?


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> What for?


The people who died in Munich last night.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Munich shootings. 

On a lighter note, Millar trolling again with headphones over that cap


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Orica–BikeExchange are fuming about Yates' time penalty.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> The people who died in Munich last night.


Oh FFS. I'll leave it at that. 

Anyway, today's stage...


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Matt White not too impressed with Yates' fine & penalty.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Orica–BikeExchange are fuming about Yates' time penalty.



There's an echo in here


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Is it me, or is there an echo?


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

So whitey hasn't taken that time penalty well has he


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> It wasn't like he has never ridden on a normal bike set up, and it wasn't like he was handed a tesco generic bike with forks wrong way around. He had to ride about 6 miles on a bike that was slightly different to his usual one. Every little may help, but he was hardly on a Clown bike. If he had then Millers praise would have been worthy.



These are very short-sighted and uninformed comments/observations and it appears you don't really understand how crucial a pro rider's precise positioning, bike set-up and personal preferences are to getting the most out of himself. Teams like Sky spend immense time and effort in investigating and establishing these things. This wasn't a bunch of teenagers racing each other around the supermarket car park. Froome was needing to stay with the strongest Tour GC riders in the world on the final (pretty tough) climb of a crucial Alpine stage, having crashed, whacked his knee and skinned and bruised his arms/legs/shoulder/back, had to chase back on, and with all of his rivals doing their best to drop him, so saying he was 'hardly on a clown's bike' is irrelevant and spectacularly missing the point.

Racing cyclists at this level are so intensely fine-tuned that anything detracting from their exact positional requirements can have a significantly detrimental effect on both the physical ability to get that full-on high-end performance out of oneself and the mental capacity to ignore the fact you're on a bike that feels all wrong (mental strength being pretty important when you're operating at such intense performance levels).

And it doesn't take much for a bike to feel all wrong, even for amateur racers. I used to ride with someone with the same critical body dimensions as me - height, reach, leg length, foot size etc - and (ostensibly) the same application of the Bernard Hinault formula, but when we rode each other's (similarly constructed aluminium-framed) bikes we both felt all wrong and would have had enormous difficulty trying to keep up with fellow racers of similar capability going flat out trying to drop us on an Alpine (or any long) climb while we were feeling so wrong on the wrong bike. The difference in feeling was huge and the constant gnawing need/desire to get back onto your own bike is extremely distracting. I imagine having on top of that to do it with a chainring change that takes days to get used to would have made it even harder.

So yes, Froome's performance in doing what he did on the wrong bike, and in pain after crashing (those types of falls still bloody hurt), is extremely impressive and fully deserving of strong praise.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

I think you need to breathe after that, and get out more. That you felt out of sorts changing bikes points to your own weaknesses , doesn't mean they are shared by others.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> I think you need to breathe after that, and get out more. That you felt out of sorts changing bikes points to your own weaknesses , doesn't mean they are shared by others.


David Millar said much the same thing as Foghat, so I'll take his opinion on this.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> David Millar said much the same thing as Foghat, so I'll take his opinion on this.



Millar was probably drunk.

Sure, it's not ideal having to race someone else's bike up a mountain, especially when you're a bit sore after a crash, but these are professional cyclists, not racehorses.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2016)

Does this mean Armstrong was wrong then when he said it's not about the bike?


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Does this mean Armstrong was wrong then when he said it's not about the bike?



No, he was right - he never kept it about the bike, too obvious - it was hidden in his hotel room or on the team bus.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> 24°C and "sunny in places" at the moment


I think he needs to make the most of the weather.


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> I think you need to breathe after that, and get out more. That you felt out of sorts changing bikes points to your own weaknesses , doesn't mean they are shared by others.



More than the 250-300 miles a week I do?

Before pontificating on a subject you clearly know little about, you need to realise that people like Millar, and all the experts fitting pro riders to their bikes, know a lot more than you. Such wilful ignorance is amusing but does make you look a bit dim.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Uh oh, another wet descent.


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Sure, it's not ideal having to race someone else's bike up a mountain, especially when you're a bit sore after a crash, but these are professional cyclists, not racehorses.



I can't recall exactly how often writers, over the 30-odd years I've followed pro racing, have described professional cyclists as being the human equivalent of racehorses, but 'often' is probably near enough.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Shamefully nicked off twitter







I reckon it means beware of low flying Pierre Rolland's


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Shamefully nicked off twitter
> 
> View attachment 135811
> 
> ...



Alaphilippe.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Foghat said:


> I can't recall exactly how often writers, over the 30-odd years I've followed pro racing, have described professional cyclists as being the human equivalent of racehorses, but 'often' is probably near enough.



Yeah, I didn't just pluck the comparison out of thin air. But here's the thing: they're not racehorses, are they?


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I reckon it means beware of low flying Pierre Rolland's



And if you're not careful @Dogtrousers will get all pedantic about that superfluous apostrophe


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

For those just catching up:

Breakaway is Sergio Henao (Sky), Imanol Erviti, Ion Izagirre and Nelson Oliveira (Movistar), Vincenzo Nibali and Jakob Fuglsang (Astana), Peter Sagan and Roman Kreuziger (Tinkoff), Ben Gastauer, Cyril Gautier and Alexis Gougeard (AG2R-La Mondiale), Wilco Kelderman and George Bennett (Lotto-Jumbo), Frank Schleck and Jasper Stuyven (Trek), Jarlinson Pantano (IAM), Pierre Rolland, Tom-Jelte Slagter and Dylan van Baarle (Cannondale), Patrick Konrad (Bora), Ilnur Zakarin (Katusha), Rui Costa (Lampre-Merida), Thomas De Gendt and Tony Gallopin (Lotto-Soudal), Sylvain Chavanel and Fabrice Jeandesbosz (Direct Energie), Julian Alaphilippe (Etixx), Nicolas Edet (Cofidis), Chris Juul-Jensen and Michael Matthews (Orica).

Barguil and Teklehaimanot are at 38 seconds

Feillu is at 2.50.

Peloton at 4 minutes after 40km of racing.

(Shamelessly cut and pasted from the Tour ticker)


----------



## Dogtrousers (23 Jul 2016)

Leaders are forever taking teammates' bikes. It's a frequent occurrence. Why is this one any different? Just because it was Froome?

Meh


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, I didn't just pluck the comparison out of thin air. But here's the thing: they're not racehorses, are they?



Well no - but why do you think the comparison is made?

I would suggest it's because professional racing cyclists (epecially when competing at the sharp end of an Alpine Tour stage final climb) are, like racehorses, incredibly finely tuned athletes that are very susceptible to physical and mental problems and waverings that could prevent them from competing for the win, or even staying with ultra-capable rivals trying to drop them (or would at least make it significantly harder). Anyway, 'a bit sore' is rather understating the effect of hitting the road like that has on the body.

Why do people think so many riders are incredibly particular about their positions? I suppose they just think they are being prima donnas, rather than wondering what's behind it. Millar was saying (and I rather doubt he was just making it up), that many riders have strong preferences within their own supposedly identical bikes because even those can feel different.

It's extremely odd that some people are so desperate to disbelieve Millar on this, given his clear level of expertise, especially when the evidence supports his comments.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Racehorses can't take their team-mates' bikes - the cleats won't fit their hooves.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

What a strangely pink chateau.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Apparently Dumoulin (T) has a clean break of the radius bone but is optimistic about still being able to compete at the Olympics.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Foghat said:


> Well no - but why do you think the comparison is made?



Because it sounds clever. Still essentially nonsense though.

No one has said Millar was wrong, only that he was rather overstating the case.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Apparently Dumoulin (T) has a clean break of the radius bone but is optimistic about still being able to compete at the Olympics.



See, if he was a racehorse, he'd be on his way to the glue factory by now.


----------



## Tin Pot (23 Jul 2016)

Who is the guy in all light blue with the really funny face?


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Classy group on the front with Sagan, Kreuziger, Sagan, Alaphilippe, Pantano, Nibali, Izaguirre, Costa, Goujeard


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Who is the guy in all light blue with the really funny face?



Aru?


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

If the breakaway holds on to the finish, Kreuziger leapfrogs his way to the podium.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

I'm liking Sagan more and more. #teamplayer


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Oops, Rolland suffered from slippery roads yesterday and slinging gels today.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2016)

Ned is useless, bring back Phil and Paul.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

propair weathair out there.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I'm liking Sagan more and more. #teamplayer



I think Sagan's been outstanding this Tour in a whole number of ways.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Ned is useless, bring back Phil and Paul.



Take that man outside and have him shot.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

What on earth are Astana up to?


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Aru is poodling about behind Sky with all his Astana team Meerkating over their shoulders to see where he is


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Just looking at the stage profile on the Tour Tracker app. This looks like it will hurt:


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Because it sounds clever. Still essentially nonsense though.



You're the one who brought up racehorses! So........sufficiently ripe for comparison for you to have made the connection - i.e. lurking in your head must have been the possibility that a Tour rider's fine-tuning, fussiness and vulnerability are not so exceptionally different to a racehorse's that the connection could not arise. Anyway, having brought up racehorses and now claimed there are no grounds for comparison other than trying to appear clever, you really ought to go on and clarify why making such comparisons is nonsense.



smutchin said:


> No one has said Millar was wrong, only that he was rather overstating the case.



But none of them appear to have a level of expertise anywhere near Millar's, and they seem to be founding their opinions on i) their belief that 'small' (to their uninformed mind) differences in bike positions and setups _shouldn't_ affect a rider much and ii) difficulties in comprehending and thinking about what Millar is basing his comments on.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

tl;dr


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> tl;dr


Knew you'd have nothing.....


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

I can't watch these descents.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Poor old Rolland looks nervous as hell


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Foghat said:


> Knew you'd have nothing.....



Watch the racing, it's more interesting.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

Pantano is ace


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Pantano and Alaphilippe.


----------



## Toshiba Boy (23 Jul 2016)

Squeaky bum time!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Pantano is ace


He nearly got that corner wrong!


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Was that really 'I love Marillion' in that field?


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Was that really 'I love Marillion' in that field?



I think the rain made the ink run.

It was one of Marmion's French fans.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I think the rain made the ink run.
> 
> It was one of Marmion's French fans.



Ah, should have guessed. The cycling fans of the high Alps obviously remember his outstanding 1955 Swiss championship win.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

According to Ned n Dave, Kreuziger needs to cycle faster if he's serious about fighting for the podium.


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> According to Ned n Dave, Kreuziger needs to cycle faster if he's serious about fighting for the podium.



Unless he wants the much sought-after '_lanterne rouge_!'


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Unless he wants the much sought-after '_lanterne rouge_!'


Don't think they'll let him sit at the side of the road to waste enough time.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Aru is done for.


----------



## brommers (23 Jul 2016)

Aru dropped


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Don't think they'll let him sit at the side of the road to waste enough time.



Must be a bar nearby, though!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Mollema has woken up!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Nibali attacks!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2016)

Nibili going for it


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Nibali only 200 m behind the leaders and doing 10 km/h faster, according to the data?


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Nibali only 200 m behind the leaders and doing 10 km/h faster, according to the data


The gap seems to be growing.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Rodriguez!


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> The gap seems to be growing.



Yes, wasn't sure it could be right.

Go Purito!!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Psychological games between Alaphilippe and Pantano!


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

Gonna be a crazy finish to this stage


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Jarlinsooooooon!


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Millar was probably drunk.
> 
> Sure, it's not ideal having to race someone else's bike up a mountain, especially when you're a bit sore after a crash, but these are professional cyclists, not racehorses.


And we are talking about a guy who ran up a hill last week to avoid losing time. His will to win is far too great to be greatly disadvantaged ona bike ever so slightly different


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Psychological games between Alaphilippe and Pantano!


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

I want Pants to wint.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> And we are talking about a guy who ran up a hill last week to avoid losing time. His will to win is far too great to be greatly disadvantaged ona bike ever so slightly different


Don't forget he only ran because he discarded the mavic bike. Can't remember if it was Millar or Boardman who criticised the fact that he couldn't manage 400m.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> The gap seems to be growing.



Not now!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Not now!


This is brilliant!


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Don't forget he only ran because he discarded the mavic bike. Can't remember if it was Millar or Boardman who criticised the fact that he couldn't manage 400m.


 
Nah he ran before the Mavic bike, that bike didn't have the right pedals and was tiny so he had to then wait for his spare from the car.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

This is a good battle for the win here.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Nibbles has gone!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

I might watch the final descent from behind the sofa.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> Nah he ran before the Mavic bike, that bike didn't have the right pedals and was tiny so he had to then wait for his spare from the car.


True.


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

His Nibs is riding away for the stage win, with 14.8 km to go.


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I might watch the final descent from behind the sofa.



The daleks might be there, too.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> The daleks might be there, too.


They're less scary.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Where did Izaguirre come from?!


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Don't forget he only ran because he discarded the mavic bike. Can't remember if it was Millar or Boardman who criticised the fact that he couldn't manage 400m.



The mavic was massively out on his size, and his cleats didn't match. That he didn't switch back to his bike when opportunity arose tells me ott wasn't as big a deal as Millar made out. 

On another note my tyre just exploded in my hall. Bloody loud when that happens in the house, glad I cut my ride short to see the end of the race


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Never write off Nibali!


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> They're less scary.



I don't know about that!


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

How long before Alaphilippe starts punching his bars.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

New tarmac, rain, the Joux Plane descent - this is going to be very hairy.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Hope he takes stage as my fantasy team needs a boost


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Moto nipped at that idiot's heels!!!


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Come on, Panters! You can do it!


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Come on, Panters! You can do it!



Panters?


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

hows izzi going down


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Moto nipped at that idiot's heels!!!


And again. Chapeau to the rider in blue.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Pantano is an animal.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

El Pants, the Pantsmeister, Big Pants you know..


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Aru has properly gone pop - nearly 2km behind the yellow jersey group now.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Aru has properly gone pop - nearly 2km behind the yellow jersey group now.


Explains why Astana attacked earlier but he didn't join them. Think the tour went on for three days too long for him.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Panters?



Yeah, why not?


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> El Pants, the Pantsmeister, Big Pants you know..


Pantaloons!


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Pantastico!


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Best descender in the world!


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Oh good grief.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Harum scarum descending


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

Pantano nearly hadf a 6d/2/- moment.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> hows izzi going down



Not bad!

(Not sure why this is a surprise to Ned & Dave.)


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Pantano has dropped Nibali!


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

Like to see Yates attacking here.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

I've been waiting to say Pants dropped for sometime now


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> I've been waiting to say Pants dropped for sometime now



Think you missed your chance on the ascent.


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> I've been waiting to say Pants dropped for sometime now



Hopefully not Pants down, though.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Hopefully not Pants down, though.


What about hung out to dry?


----------



## Levo-Lon (23 Jul 2016)

Izagurri..bloody hell ,how brave is he, showing Nibili a clean set of heals


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

meta lon said:


> Izagurri..bloody hell ,how brave is he, showing Nibili a clean set of heals


Nibali currently in 3rd


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

That was fantastic!


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

Helluva win


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 Jul 2016)

Really unexpected to see Nibali looking nervous and getting dropped on a descent like that. Great by Izaguire and Pantano (once again).


----------



## Flying_Monkey (23 Jul 2016)

Froome actually smiles...


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Really unexpected to see Nibali looking nervous and getting dropped on a descent like that.


His crash yesterday could have ended differently - he did the splits as he went down the tarmac.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

Now begins the old he's won, but not quite, but he has really.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (23 Jul 2016)

And to top a great stage off, Quintana attacked Froome and made it stick

All be it a few yards from the end.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> And to top a great stage off, Quintana attacked Froome and made it stick
> 
> All be it a few yards from the end.



Froome let him go. Not sure who was leading sky but he looked over his shoulder when Quintana "attacked" but they sat back and focused on getting to the finish.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

I know it was totally different circumstances today but it really shouldn't have been surprising to anyone that Izaguirre is pretty good going downhill...
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...rres-110kmh-descent-videos-of-the-week-234562

I suppose it was a whole month ago.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Aru has finally made it over the line.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

Aru comes in 17.46 down!


----------



## Dayvo (23 Jul 2016)

Can Yates be naughty tomorrow and take time over Quintana?


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Aru comes in 17.46 down!


Shocking.


----------



## jarlrmai (23 Jul 2016)

Good to see important cultural treasures Storage Wars and Monster Carp are not being delayed by something as piffling as watching Britain's greatest cyclist pull on the yellow jersey as defacto race winner of the world's greatest cycling race for a historic third time.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Not a big Froome fan, but he's deservedly won this. Couple of falls, mental attacks, never shown up in the mountains, and time trialled at full whack than just protect his lead. Well done


----------



## Tin Pot (23 Jul 2016)

Saw him win but nodded off immediately afterwards, was there any indication of a celebration?


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Saw him win but nodded off immediately afterwards, was there any indication of a celebration?


A tiny smile.

Then he stripped off and ran about singing '#1' by nelly


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Saw him win but nodded off immediately afterwards, was there any indication of a celebration?


Froome? No, they ran out of broadcasting time to show anything other than an interview with G.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> A tiny smile.
> 
> Then he stripped off and ran about singing '#1' by nelly





coffeejo said:


> Froome? No, they ran out of broadcasting time to show anything other than an interview with G.


Damn. What Louch said.


----------



## Hill Wimp (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Can Yates be naughty tomorrow and take time over Quintana?


I wish he could and would.

Love to see him on the podium, he really deserves it.


----------



## HF2300 (23 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I know it was totally different circumstances today but it really shouldn't have been surprising to anyone that Izaguirre is pretty good going downhill...
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...rres-110kmh-descent-videos-of-the-week-234562
> 
> I suppose it was a whole month ago.



I like Ned but I don't think his rider knowledge is all it might be and I think he has a bit of a tendency to make it up as he goes along. Not that I could do any better.


----------



## philk56 (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Can Yates be naughty tomorrow and take time over Quintana?


Would also love to see that! Don't know how Quintana has managed to get a podium place.


----------



## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

philk56 said:


> Would also love to see that! Don't know how Quintana has managed to get a podium place.


To be fair to the man, he's hung on Froome's wheel almost the whole way. You don't do that unless you deserve it.


----------



## Hill Wimp (23 Jul 2016)

User said:


> He should have chanced his arm on the final descent.


I think he may have lost his arm in that weather.


----------



## Aravis (23 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Yeah he might but, that's racing. Would Quintana have taken the risk and matched him or bottled it?


I think he was quite right to make sure of the white jersey, instead of risking everything to try for a podium place which he was very unlikely to achieve.

Quintana's podium is creditless, in my view. He was supposed to be the big challenger, he seemed healthy, never suffered any misfortune, didn't seem to have any bad days - and did absolutely nothing all race. I didn't want him to win over Froome, but I feel very disappointed.

My only remaining hope is that Sky don't repeat the formation finish, which I find disrespectful. Froome has a 4 minute lead, and he should win by that margin, not 2½ minutes.


----------



## smutchin (23 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I like Ned but I don't think his rider knowledge is all it might be and I think he has a bit of a tendency to make it up as he goes along. Not that I could do any better.



No, I don't think I could do any better either, but it was a bit odd the way they seemed to be writing off Izagirre even before the descent had started. He is a Basque, after all...

That Tour de Suisse TT maybe isn't such a good example though, being so different to today's race.


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## coffeejo (23 Jul 2016)

User said:


> Yeah but he didn't exactly contribute to the race in any positive way.


I knew I should have edited my post to say that hanging on is why he's on the podium. Not racing is why he didn't wear yellow.


----------



## Louch (23 Jul 2016)

Has this been the least raced Tdf over the last few years? Lots of happy top ten riders not willing to risk places to try and win


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## rich p (23 Jul 2016)

Pity that the last 4 days, that looked so exciting in prospect, failed to quite live up to the possibilities.
A slightly damp squib...literally


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Pity that the last 4 days, that looked so exciting in prospect, failed to quite live up to the possibilities.
> A slightly damp squib...literally


I've been glued to the telly this year and I've not been let down. Froome has obviously trained in new skills which were thrilling. For those who said it was a 'damp squib' or similar need to watch another sport like F1 () to realise how dull sport can be.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Has this been the least raced Tdf over the last few years? Lots of happy top ten riders not willing to risk places to try and win


It's been like that for a while; I just look upon it as inevitable that the GC will be a bit meh.

I re-read some of Stephen Roche's autobiography* this week and he was highly critical of the "top 10" approach and also of radios having led to less competitiveness - I can't disagree with either.

*published in 2012 so he was on about a succession of Tours where there was no racing, so maybe this year is just another one in a long line? I can't remember there being many gripping GCs ever. Perhaps 3 or so in the past (I was going to write 30 but...) 50 years? Even when there was racing the Tour never seems to have gripping outcomes in GC. 

edit - that is not to say, however, that the stages are not competitive...not that the GC winners are not pushing themselves to the limit. It might just seem a bit meh at times.


----------



## Crackle (23 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Pity that the last 4 days, that looked so exciting in prospect, failed to quite live up to the possibilities.
> A slightly damp squib...literally


I think the weather killed the GC race today, otherwise we might have seen some attacks but no one was willing to risk it in those conditions.


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## rich p (23 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think the weather killed the GC race today, otherwise we might have seen some attacks but no one was willing to risk it in those conditions.


Exactly.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

The descent into Morzine is brutal in dry conditions, so in the conditions today the descending was outstanding. I think I might have even stood up at one point and cheered.


----------



## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Really unexpected to see Nibali looking nervous and getting dropped on a descent like that. Great by Izaguire and Pantano (once again).



Not _that_ unexpected though - he did crash descending in the rain yesterday.....and he'd just moments beforehand seen Pantano nearly take a trip off into space. Nibali's fall yesterday may not have looked especially serious, but it's still damned painful, and when you're carrying the muscle and bone bruises and the skin removal from such falls it's normal for even brave, skilled descenders to lose a bit of confidence and reign it in slightly in such conditions.

I found Pantano's reaction to his own near off on the Joux Plane today interesting - he appeared not remotely fazed and even seemed to use the adrenalin rush from it to re-catch and pass Nibali.

The Joux Plane was the first big Alpine descent I ever did, and Pantano's wayward moment brought back fun memories. My friend had taken over the lead at one point, and on a different left-hand bend lower down he went off the road just like Pantano (further off in fact, but we had dry roads so were going faster). Being on our first trip to the Alps, as well as very young and excitedly racing each other down, I was a bit too close and followed him off, but luckily the verge was forgiving and we survived intact, not even needing to put a foot down as far as I can remember. And just like Pantano we were spurred on by our near miss, although my descending since became more measured while still pretty full on.


----------



## ColinJ (23 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Can Yates be naughty tomorrow and take time over Quintana?


No.

(Well, not unless Quintana gets badly injured in a stupid crash, or suffers a serious illness overnight which stops him riding!)


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (23 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Has this been the least raced Tdf over the last few years? Lots of happy top ten riders not willing to risk places to try and win


Hmmm, 
I seem to remember some team that used Kryptonite to destroy mere mortals. I'm pretty sure they (he) dominated the LtdF for best part of a decade. But I'm getting old so maybe a figment of my imagination. 

Anyone else see the Armstrong film on Netflix...nothing new but still good to watch.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

Another minute's silence tomorrow?


----------



## andrew_s (23 Jul 2016)

Aravis said:


> My only remaining hope is that Sky don't repeat the formation finish, which I find disrespectful. Froome has a 4 minute lead, and he should win by that margin, not 2½ minutes.


Last year was officially a wet finish, which meant they took the times on the first passage of the finish line, with the 10 laps of the Champs being neutralised.
I also seem to remember that traditional is a post-finish lap of honour, and last year there was some reason that didn't happen, possibly something to do with a car that got shot by the police at the Arc de Triomphe, and the circuit of the roundabout being replaced by a U-turn.


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## Aravis (23 Jul 2016)

andrew_s said:


> Last year was officially a wet finish, which meant they took the times on the first passage of the finish line, with the 10 laps of the Champs being neutralised.


This is quite correct. I was thinking of 2013, when everyone in the Sky team conceded almost a minute because they slowed down to finish in formation in a group separate from everyone else. The detailed results show that the field was well split up that day, and the Sky riders were a long way from being last, but it does look as though they'd decided in advance to allow themselves to be dropped and to lose time. Winning the Tour is about fighting tooth and nail over practically every second for three weeks, and giving a chunk of time away at the end for the sake of a photo opportunity felt completely wrong.

We'll see what happens tomorrow!


----------



## mjr (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> *published in 2012 so he was on about a succession of Tours where there was no racing,


Including a succession of tours where there's no winner...

I don't think many GC races go to the final day but this one barely seemed to get started.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Including a succession of tours where there's no winner...
> 
> I don't think many GC races go to the final day but this one barely seemed to get started.


I have liked it; it's tough going to do what Sky have done. And Sagan is immense. Loads of decent stages that have not gone to plan as well. And Cav; feck me!


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## Foghat (23 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> The descent into Morzine is brutal in dry conditions



Imagine how brutal it was in 1988 when I first did it and it was rough as hell in a lot of places but still really fast. I remember watching Roche get away from Delgado down there in '87, in another gripping Joux Plane episode. We stayed in the youth hostel at the foot of the descent by a sharp left turn into Morzine - I wonder if it's still there.....

Nice smooth surface now it seems. Still brutal as you say, though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (23 Jul 2016)

Kelderman looked a bit beaten up at the finish, here's why

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKm9uzLiqY&feature=youtu.be&t=14


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## Seevio (24 Jul 2016)

My biggest disappointment of the tour was that we were waiting for the entire race for one rider to crash and when it finally happened on stage 19 there was not a single Reichenbach falls pun. Come on people, it's elementary.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

One thing that has struck me about this Tour is the low number of withdrawals. I've just checked and there are still 175 riders left, which I think is a record number of finishers - assuming they do all finish today.


----------



## Louch (24 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Hmmm,
> I seem to remember some team that used Kryptonite to destroy mere mortals. I'm pretty sure they (he) dominated the LtdF for best part of a decade. But I'm getting old so maybe a figment of my imagination.
> 
> Anyone else see the Armstrong film on Netflix...nothing new but still good to watch.


They weren't the only team with Krponite, they just used it better than others. Maybe if superman had died he woud have the same compassion for him the likes of Pantani has, another decent documentary on nEtflix. Shame the clean spirit one is gone as I really enjoyed that one and don't have the dirty taint through it


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2016)

Can the sprint finish start from 10km out? i.e. Steve Cummings


----------



## perplexed (24 Jul 2016)

Froome - utter machine
Yates - pretty outstanding
Bardet - a well deserved podium
Aru - pretty much came to nowt
Mollema - great ride but blew up in the last two mountain days
Porte - bloody unlucky, but out of sorts and clearly not on top form

Quintana - he's actually irritated me and got on my wick this edition. He's been on the rear seat of a tandem with Froome but has simply not pulled his weight. Out of the whole three weeks and 80-90 hours of racing, he's probably spent less than about 6 minutes in front of Froome. And half of that will have been during the Ventoux debacle. It has been said that he's not felt well/suffered allergies and considered abandoning several times - then why didn't he do the honourable thing and let Valverde have a crack?

Some quarters in France have had a go at Sky for having the temerity to win, but they should be having a bit closer look at some of the competition in my opinion.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> My brother is just heading out to bag a spot on the Joux Plane and paint "YATES" on the road



Did you manage to see him on tv?


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Did you manage to see him on tv?


Yeah, he was the one in the white jersey....


----------



## Crackle (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Kelderman looked a bit beaten up at the finish, here's why
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKm9uzLiqY&feature=youtu.be&t=14



I like the plaintive cry of 'medic' at the end.


----------



## SWSteve (24 Jul 2016)

That looked, and sounded, bloody painful for Kelderman.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Did you manage to see him on tv?



No - ITV decided to take a very long ad break at the foot of the climb and by the time it occurred to me to switch over to Eurosport, I think they'd passed the spot where he was standing (he told me he was just past the sign indicating 10km to the summit).


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

Does anybody know whether ITV4 are showing La Course before the TdF?


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Does anybody know whether ITV4 are showing La Course before the TdF?



Yes, they are - in full.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yes, they are - in full.


Ta. Good news.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2016)

The programme starts at 1pm


----------



## SWSteve (24 Jul 2016)

Great news about La Course. 

Can't help but feel they should stagger the starts, for today's stage: everyone gets given a pint of Chantily Cream, and can't start until the glass is empty. Prize of €50,000 to the first rider at a point 100m away


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Seevio said:


> My biggest disappointment of the tour was that we were waiting for the entire race for one rider to crash and when it finally happened on stage 19 there was not a single Reichenbach falls pun. Come on people, it's elementary.



Done twice in this thread and apparently an infinite number of times on Twitter. Keep up.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Can the sprint finish start from 10km out? i.e. Steve Cummings



10km out? No.

1km out? Maybe...


View: https://youtu.be/Hwifyh5Uo3k

Actually, I'd say someone nicking it à la Vino is not outside the realms of possibility, given how disorganised the big teams' sprint trains have been this year.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

Looks like a nice day for it


----------



## ColinJ (24 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> Quintana - he's actually irritated me and got on my wick this edition. He's been on the rear seat of a tandem with Froome but has *simply not pulled his weight.*


Oh yes he HAS!








Mind you, he doesn't weigh very much ...


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Unsung hero of this Tour: Sam Bennett

Nasty crash on stage 1, yet he has endured what must have been three incredibly arduous weeks to make it to Paris. Not entirely surprising that he is lanterne rouge, but still being in the race at all is a major achievement!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

Jens is a complete nobber.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

And credit must go to Dan McLay for competing and challenging so admirably.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

38 km to go in La Course and lots of attacks, but nothing's sticking. Looks like a sprint finish...


----------



## suzeworld (24 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> David Millar said much the same thing as Foghat, so I'll take his opinion on this.



My feelings exactly, as an armchair pundit I am prepared to take Millar's "gushing" at face-value. Seemed to me that he was genuintely impressed, from an experience of pro-cycling that I do not have. I can take his word for it that Froome's attitude was impressive.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Speculating on Dani King in a late breakaway. I'll bet she's there to lead out Chloe Hosking.

Edit - I'll take that back, she's attacking. Wonder if it's tactical?


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

8km and a 10 second breakaway...


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Ouch. Dani King down, among others.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Unsung hero of this Tour: Sam Bennett
> 
> Nasty crash on stage 1, yet he has endured what must have been three incredibly arduous weeks to make it to Paris. Not entirely surprising that he is lanterne rouge, but still being in the race at all is a major achievement!


Great kilometre zero feature on him from The Cycling Podcast if you want more. One year maybe he'll have an injury-free tour!


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Holy.... Big crash. King down


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Bloody carnage!


----------



## youngoldbloke (24 Jul 2016)

Trying to watch La Course on ITV4. It's just blxxdy annoying. Commentry crap, but camera work & production AWFUL. Cut away to iconic Paris landmark every few seconds, or long view of the Champs. It''s frustrating and impossible. Bike racing on TV for people who aren't really interested.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

That crash will have disrupted some leadouts.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yes, they are - in full.


Was it in full? I missed the opening but Gary was chatting to someone and then they cut to live coverage and it was already some km in.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

They're going to get caught.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Was it in full? I missed the opening but Gary was chatting to someone and then they cut to live coverage and it was already some km in.



No, it started about 30km in.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Great kilometre zero feature on him from The Cycling Podcast if you want more. One year maybe he'll have an injury-free tour!



I'll check that out, thanks.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> No, it started about 30km in.



They lied to me on yesterday's highlights!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Was it in full? I missed the opening but Gary was chatting to someone and then they cut to live coverage and it was already some km in.


I think they were about 30km into the race before it went live.

Oops, too slow!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> They're going to get caught.



Vos really wants this, doesn't she?


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Another crash.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Vos really wants this, doesn't she?



Could be in with a good chance as well with everyone losing their leadouts in these crashes.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Another crash.



And again.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

It's carnage out there!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

"big crash" "huge crash" "big crash". Just say "crash" you wazzock.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

More crashes. Ugly


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> "big crash" "huge crash" "big crash". Just say "crash" you wazzock.


Huge wazzock!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Big attack by Van Dijk


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

They've caught Van Dijk


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Hosking!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Impressive sprint from Hosking.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

She was right in her pre-race interview


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Yay! Celebratory discounts all round at Wiggle!!!!!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

Crikey, Hoskins put in a great turn of speed there!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Don't need the gruesome shot of the rider being put in an ambulance, thanks.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Impressive sprint from Hosking.



Great sprint. Thought she'd gone way too early, and she looked to be flagging, but got enough of a jump to win it.


----------



## Starchivore (24 Jul 2016)

Good finish there, lots of crashes though


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Don't need the gruesome shot of the rider being put in an ambulance, thanks.


On that and the coverage not being in full as announced and on the needless Paris landmark shots which could be kept for the slower-burning bits of the men's race: never underestimate the contempt of France Television for women's cycling. I don't recall them broadcasting any other races, except for the Olympics.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

The muck on Hannah Barnes' face - looks as though she's done Paris-Roubaix!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

youngoldbloke said:


> Trying to watch La Course on ITV4. It's just blxxdy annoying. Commentry crap, but camera work & production AWFUL. Cut away to iconic Paris landmark every few seconds, or long view of the Champs. It''s frustrating and impossible. Bike racing on TV for people who aren't really interested.



Not ITV4's fault (though the commentary is) - they take the coverage from France TV, so they're stuck with the French lack of seriousness about it.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Don't need the gruesome shot of the rider being put in an ambulance, thanks.


I really didnt get that bit of the commentary - "She's ok - just a few scatches" when it was obvious to anyone with eyes that the rider (sorry didn't catch a name - multitasking at work) was in a huge amount of distress.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Crikey, Hosking's sprint looks even more impressive from the overhead shot.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Great sprint. Thought she'd gone way too early...



So did she, apparently! That strong attack to get across to and past van Dijk did it. Amazing to watch in the overhead.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> My feelings exactly, as an armchair pundit I am prepared to take Millar's "gushing" at face-value. Seemed to me that he was genuintely impressed, from an experience of pro-cycling that I do not have. I can take his word for it that Froome's attitude was impressive.



Choose your expert. Sean Kelly was much more measured over on the other side.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Have to say, much though I like Vos, it's good to see her not getting things all her own way.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Ha! Selfie! Brilliant!


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

Bit odd that la Course doesn't have its own entry in the EPG, which means it won't have its own audience figures in some rankings.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Have to say, much though I like Vos, it's good to see her not getting things all her own way.


Definitely. Shows that women's cycling isn't Marianne Vos.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Also, it's good to hear that there's a movement to improve La Course. I'd love to watch the women's TdF in the future and be surprised that we ever had to be content with 13 laps on the final day.


----------



## bozmandb9 (24 Jul 2016)

Is it just me, or do others find the Skoda advertisements patronising and annoying? To me them seem to exemplify ignorant pre-conceptions about cyclists, and take the piss in a way which I'd expect from ignorant motorists.

Makes me wonder why on earth they sponsor it. Apologies if this has already been covered.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Bit odd that la Course doesn't have its own entry in the EPG



It doesn't even have its own thread in cyclechat!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Is it just me, or do others find the Skoda advertisements patronising and annoying? To me them seem to exemplify ignorant pre-conceptions about cyclists, and take the piss in a way which I'd expect from ignorant motorists.



I like them, they're funny. Don't tell me you've never sat at the traffic lights on a shopping bike and imagined you're about to start the final of the Olympic sprint race?


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Ha! Selfie! Brilliant!


----------



## bozmandb9 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I like them, they're funny. Don't tell me you've never sat at the traffic lights on a shopping bike and imagined you're about to start the final of the Olympic sprint race?



Just doesn't seem right to me. Would they show fat dads having a sunday knock around if they were sponsoring the World Cup? I think something a bit more exciting and respectful would be appropriate, celebrating the tour, even if reaching out to ordinary mortals at the same time.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I like them, they're funny. Don't tell me you've never sat at the traffic lights on a shopping bike and imagined you're about to start the final of the Olympic sprint race?


Not since I was a child. Do many children buy Skodas?

Skoda: let's point and laugh at cyclists to distract from the fact we're emissions-test-cheating VWs really so have been poisoning cyclists for years.

I preferred their race support vehicle ad from a year or two ago, where a bidon got thrown across the windscreen and so on.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Would they show fat dads having a sunday knock around if they were sponsoring the World Cup?



Dunno, don't care, it's only an advert. Skoda are still responsible for the best car TV ad of all time...


View: https://youtu.be/O1RHEvBddy8


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Skoda: let's point and laugh at cyclists



I guess it's a question of perspective. I'm happy enough in my cycling life not to take it personally.


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

Blimey, how sensitive some are!


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

Really surprised to see the 4 jerseys at the front. You'd have thought that a break would have developed by now


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> I guess it's a question of perspective. I'm happy enough in my cycling life not to take it personally.


Not taking it personally but I feel Skoda are irresponsible to be encouraging ignorant motorists to think all cyclists are that sort of idiots. We already get quite enough abuse from frustrated motorists couped up in their metal-frame greenhouses sat still on hot tarmac at this time of year.


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

And I don't fancy swimming in that green lake


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Really surprised to see the 4 jerseys at the front. You'd have thought that a break would have developed by now



That hadn't occurred to me. I was just thinking how tiny Adam Yates looks next to Froome and Sagan.


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Not taking it personally but I feel Skoda are irresponsible to be encouraging ignorant motorists to think all cyclists are that sort of idiots. We already get quite enough abuse from frustrated motorists couped up in their metal-frame greenhouses sat still on hot tarmac at this time of year.


Chill out mate, or start a thread


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> That hadn't occurred to me. I was just thinking how tiny Adam Yates looks next to Froome and Sagan.


I like his cheeky chappie interview style too


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

The Champs-Élysse should be "interesting" with 178 riders in the peloton.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

I now feel I know everything there is to know about Chantilly, cream and all


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

You want to know which ad I _really_ hate? the feckin' GoCompare one with the deeply irritating taxi driver.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> You want to know which ad I _really_ hate? the feckin' GoCompare one with the deeply irritating taxi driver.


They're all on my FFS list.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> I now feel I know everything there is to know about Chantilly, cream and all



He neglected to give a recipe though, so in case you're wondering, it's actually just whipped cream with icing sugar and a dash of vanilla essence mixed in.


----------



## Hill Wimp (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> You want to know which ad I _really_ hate? the feckin' GoCompare one with the deeply irritating taxi driver.


It's better than the donkey sanctuary one we seemed to have all last week.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Quintana is actually ALONGSIDE Froome now!


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Quintana is actually ALONGSIDE Froome now!


He's ahead!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> He neglected to give a recipe though, so in case you're wondering, it's actually just whipped cream with icing sugar and a dash of vanilla essence mixed in.


You have completed my education, and for that I am awarding you a splendid hat:


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

Any news on Chantilly lace?


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

Froome just told Bardet that he was le premier perdant...


----------



## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> They're all on my FFS list.


I also fecking hate meerkats...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Any news on Chantilly lace?


I believe Ned and David both have a wiggle in their walk and a giggle in their talk


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> I also fecking hate meerkats...


And adverts for the TdF right before we return to the race after the ad break...


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> You want to know which ad I _really_ hate? the feckin' GoCompare one with the deeply irritating taxi driver.



Am still convinced it's Gregg Wallace's twin brother


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

They're doing 16kph and chatting. The only stage that our freewheeling rides could be mistaken for. Maybe we should invite them.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

I'm trying to imagine the headlines if one of the Sky team had wobbled, bringing them all down and under the wheels of the following cars.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2016)

The tv coverage of fantastic adverts is being spoilt by a big group of stupid blokes on bicycles holding up the road traffic - inconsiderate b******s


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

Oi, Froomy, fetch us a beer!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Oi, Froomy, fetch us a beer!



Oi, Ned, fetch us a glass of bubbly!


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Oi, Ned, fetch us a glass of bubbly!


Or a crate!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

The advert with the "Are You Being Served?" music is getting on my tits.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

The Beautiful Marcel getting his flavoured condoms sorted


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

Is there some sort of bet about the number of wrong turns that Lotto Soudal rider can take? I think I've seen him do 3 so far.


----------



## jarlrmai (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Is there some sort of bet about the number of wrong turns that Lotto Soudal rider can take? I think I've seen him do 3 so far.


 
He's just padding out his strava


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> You want to know which ad I _really_ hate? the feckin' GoCompare one with the deeply irritating taxi driver.



Fantastic!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> It doesn't even have its own thread in cyclechat!



I like to think it made the main TdF thread on merit.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

"it makes the riders feel like they've been on a proper tour" 

Hmm, I'd like to see them do it with panniers and bar bags!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Would they show fat dads having a sunday knock around if they were sponsoring the World Cup?.



Nike Parklife ad (though admittedly it showed top stars as well)? Or any number of other ads that have featured Joe Public?



mjray said:


> Skoda: let's point and laugh at cyclists to distract from the fact we're emissions-test-cheating VWs really so have been poisoning cyclists for years..



Suspect that might be overthinking it far more than the people making the ad ever did...


----------



## jarlrmai (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Fantastic!



It's still better than the horse one.


----------



## brommers (24 Jul 2016)

This is the preview of today's stage on the TdF website
'The grand finale is a parade but also the sprinters' queen stage, as Mark Cavendish likes to describe it. But the most successful of them all this year (3 victories) has pulled out in order to gear up for the Olympic Games on the track. Therefore, only Peter Sagan can reach the number of four stage wins like André Greipel and Marcel Kittel (twice) in the past three years.'
What tosh.


----------



## Globalti (24 Jul 2016)

On Saturday morning we left Megeve at 7.00 to get out and on the road to Geneva TGV station before they closed the road. As we drove past the Katusha hotel outside Megeve a bunch of rather scantily-dressed young women emerged from the hotel lobby looking tired, almost as if they had been doing Egyptian PT all night. Or maybe they were the night staff clocking off....


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

What is this Australian guy saying?? My family are fannying about here in the background and I can't hear a thing


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

Also, Millar, STOP MUMBLING!!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Also, Millar, STOP MUMBLING!!



It's nearly 6pm French time - the bar will have been open for hours by now.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> What is this Australian guy saying?? My family are fannying about here in the background and I can't hear a thing


Can't you drop them?


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Can't you drop them?



I wish!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> What is this Australian guy saying?? My family are fannying about here in the background and I can't hear a thing



Stick the subtitles on. Might not be any clearer though. They were just talking about someone called Welcome Rodriguez.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

What was Copeland just saying about changing Meintjes mentality?


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> "it makes the riders feel like they've been on a proper tour"
> 
> Hmm, I'd like to see them do it with panniers and bar bags!



Yeah, and trying to pitch a tent in a sudden downpour and get the stove going.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Stick the subtitles on. Might not be any clearer though. They were just talking about someone called Welcome Rodriguez.



I've just been informed that yesterday over the Joux Plane the subtitles came over all mafiosi and talked about Whacking Rodriguez.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Nice to see Sean Kelly and Greg Le Mond talking on Eurosport. They still have a lot of respect and affection for each other.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Not often you get to say this about sports, but this stage is a lot more interesting and exciting in person than on the TV.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Not often you get to say this about sports, but this stage is a lot more interesting and exciting in person than on the TV.



I always prefer to watch it on TV. I can go to the toilet when I want, get a drink when I want, have a kip and not miss much. However, one day I would very much like to watch a stage or two, and enjoy the local bars and restaurants in the evening in some 'lost in time' village.


----------



## psmiffy (24 Jul 2016)

Do all the teams have a yellow stylee winners kit handy - or is it just Sky


----------



## bozmandb9 (24 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> Do all the teams have a yellow stylee winners kit handy - or is it just Sky


Love the details. Told me son to get in Team Sky so he can get me some of those yellow Oakleys!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (24 Jul 2016)

psmiffy said:


> Do all the teams have a yellow stylee winners kit handy - or is it just Sky


I think it's just Sky and I reckon we're going to see a few of them on our roads pretty soon. That said, I actually prefer it to the blue (apologies to ianrauk).


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> What was Copeland just saying about changing Meintjes mentality?


Stop him farting along on the back of the group and worrying those in his team car all day.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I always prefer to watch it on TV. I can go to the toilet when I want, get a drink when I want, have a kip and not miss much. However, one day I would very much like to watch a stage or two, and enjoy the local bars and restaurants in the evening in some 'lost in time' village.


I meant this stage. Paris. The atmosphere is amazing and you see lots because of the laps.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Tony Martin has gone home and Marcel Kittel is having a tantrum.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I meant this stage. Paris. The atmosphere is amazing and you see lots because of the laps.


Except it is very difficult to reach a good place where you can see the course and a big screen and moving around the course is very difficult and spectator information is almost non-existant. Newer races like London-Surrey are much more welcoming even if they are harder to see at multiple points.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Tony Martin has gone home and Marcel Kittel is having a tantrum.


Not a tantrum. Just giving a specialized the respect it deserves. Bet he wishes he was still on a Giant.


----------



## Louch (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Tony Martin has gone home and Marcel Kittel is having a tantrum.


The ONLY reason he quit was so he could go to airport early, that's the only reason.......I'm going back to Eurosport next race , my god


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Except it is very difficult to reach a good place where you can see the course and a big screen and moving around the course is very difficult and spectator information is almost non-existant. Newer races like London-Surrey are much more welcoming even if they are harder to see at multiple points.


We didn't have any problems. Got a great spot in view of both lengths of the Champs-Élysse, in sight of a big screen and close to an ice cream vendor.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> The ONLY reason he quit was so he could go to airport early, that's the only reason.......I'm going back to Eurosport next race , my god


You and Kittel need to chill


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2016)

If Kittel gets back on, he might just win on anger alone. If...


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

Voekler has done 'huge shifts at the front' over the years.

I thought they said 

'Huge sh*ts'.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> Except it is very difficult to reach a good place where you can see the course and a big screen and moving around the course is very difficult and spectator information is almost non-existant. Newer races like London-Surrey are much more welcoming even if they are harder to see at multiple points.


Never experienced any problems moving about and managed to get loads of good vantage points around the course. You don't need much "spectator information" to work out what is happening. And the big screens help, and does the rabbiting French bloke on the speakers - not a clue what he says but he's entertaining in his enthusiasm.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> We didn't have any problems. Got a great spot in view of both lengths of the Champs-Élysse, in sight of a big screen and close to an ice cream vendor.


Well done you. Must have arrived earlier than I did or gotten lucky.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Voekler has done 'huge shifts at the front' over the years.
> 
> I thought they said
> 
> 'Huge sh*ts'.



That as well


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

And they were just saying that in the tunnel there is nothing but a group of fireman and their engine, which means they get a private view and the riders get to know the guys as they pass over the laps.

Nice.


----------



## bozmandb9 (24 Jul 2016)

Anybody know if Sky, Rapha, or anybody are likely to send out a special 'celebration offer' in the immediate aftermath of the tour? I assume if they do, it'll be shared here. I know some retailers have got special tour offers all week.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

According to the subtitles the ITV4 competition prize includes 'psycho retail vouchers'


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Marcel Kittel is having a tantrum.



I reckon one of the backroom staff punctured his reverse bike wheel for a laugh! 

Well, it made me chuckle.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Rowe and Poels decided they've not worked hard enough this month.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Anybody know if Sky, Rapha, or anybody are likely to send out a special 'celebration offer' in the immediate aftermath of the tour? I assume if they do, it'll be shared here. I know some retailers have got special tour offers all week.



With the Sky Rapha tie up ending I would expect there to be some serious discounting coming soon to clear the stock.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

I'm going to (possibly) make a fool of myself and predict Kristoff for a narrow win.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I'm going to (possibly) make a fool of myself and predict Kristoff for a narrow win.


Are the two related? 

Kittel, powered by pure rage.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Anybody know if Sky, Rapha, or anybody are likely to send out a special 'celebration offer' in the immediate aftermath of the tour? I assume if they do, it'll be shared here. I know some retailers have got special tour offers all week.


They'll make a celebration t-shirt, and flog it at the usual high price tag.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2016)

Bollo said:


> Kittel, powered by pure rage.



Ahem...



Flying_Monkey said:


> If Kittel gets back on, he might just win on anger alone. If...


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> They'll make a celebration t-shirt, and flog it at the usual high price tag.


I got the last one remaindered. Surprisingly, it is a rather nice warm brushed cotton.

Griepel for the win.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Last lap!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2016)

Here we go...


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Shaping up all very nicely.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Does anyone think that Cannondale Drapac would be a great Bond villain?

Back to the race......


----------



## Flying_Monkey (24 Jul 2016)

I think Orica are driving this one too early.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

OUCH!


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Ouch!


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

More ouch!


----------



## Supersuperleeds (24 Jul 2016)

And another down


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Pants down!

Except it's not Panters after all.

Froome needs to keep nearer the front.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Couquard! That's a genuine shame.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Plenty of punctures.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Lotto in charge, but Sagan lurks.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Gripes!


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

What a fantastic last 300 metres!


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> What a fantastic last 300 metres!



Very messy - and all the more exciting for it. Good job by Greipel.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Jesus! Did you see the slo mo where Sagan actually broke traction on that final acceleration. I'd love to see the power numbers.


----------



## philtalksbx (24 Jul 2016)

Sagan's rear wheel - oh for a bit of grip


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Is that the first time Sky have finished with all 9 riders still in the race?


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Very messy - and all the more exciting for it. Good job by Greipel.



Sagan almost squeezed it.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Is that the first time Sky have finished with all 9 riders still in the race?


Yup.


----------



## SWSteve (24 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> With the Sky Rapha tie up ending I would expect there to be some serious discounting coming soon to clear the stock.




And I shall go to Shepton Mallet and hope they have sizes that aren't xxxxxl


----------



## SWSteve (24 Jul 2016)

Sagan could've been a bit closer but for a patch of white paint!


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

I like Greipel but he reminds me of the wide-mouthed frog.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

Who's the guy with the skis?


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Brilliant sprint, and brilliantly filmed from the side on moto & overhead shots.

Thought Lotto Soudal had blown it again, but a great bit of opportunism from Greipel getting on Kristoff's wheel - then phenomenal acceleration when he jumped.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I like Greipel but he reminds me of the wide-mouthed frog.



A rare shot of Greipel with his teeth in...


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Brilliant sprint, and brilliantly filmed from the side on moto & overhead shots.
> 
> Thought Lotto Soudal had blown it again, but a great bit of opportunism from Greipel getting on Kristoff's wheel - then phenomenal acceleration when he jumped.



Don't think it's a moto, it's a camera on rails behind the barriers, like the athletics. Shots are amazing


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Don't think it's a moto, it's a camera on rails behind the barriers, like the athletics. Shots are amazing



I didn't think it was - they've got a barriered off area that you could see a TV moto riding up earlier - but I'm not sure, and either way it made for a great view of the sprint.


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Incredible by Sagan really, to do all that work on the front yesterday and still be seriously challenging for the sprint today - and possibly only pipped by a rough bit of cobble at the wrong moment.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Don't think it's a moto, it's a camera on rails behind the barriers, like the athletics. Shots are amazing



You could see the moto from the aerial shot going into the final bend. Needs to be something with serious acceleration anyway!


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

J-A Flecha and Nicolas Portal trying to outdo each other with their cockney geezer accents.


----------



## Bollo (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I like Greipel but he reminds me of the wide-mouthed frog.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

'And Peter Sagan pulls on the Peter Sagan Green jersey, sponsored by Peter Sagan, promoted by Peter Sagan and worn by Peter Sagan'


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Majka didn't look too impressed at that podium girl shoving him out of the way!


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

I think I may have said this before but I'm warming to Sagan.


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I didn't think it was - they've got a barriered off area that you could see a TV moto riding up earlier - but I'm not sure, and either way it made for a great view of the sprint.



Fair enough!


----------



## Buddfox (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I think I may have said this before but I'm warming to Sagan.



Me too - it started with the World Championship ride, which was phenomenal, and he has really lit up this tour


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Me too - it started with the World Championship ride, which was phenomenal, and he has really lit up this tour


He seems to have grown up this year.


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Urgh, think I prefer the Go Compare jingle to the British anthem.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

"Vive le Tour et vive la France!"

Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye...


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Was the crowd cheering or heckling him during his speech?


----------



## Crackle (24 Jul 2016)

What did he say? This pub is too damn noisy


----------



## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> What did he say? This pub is too damn noisy


Thanked the team and staff, dedicated the win to his son, talked about Nice and how important the Tour is.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Was the crowd cheering or heckling him during his speech?



He was being cheered, I think. 

Good speech, but Froome has been modest and unassuming all tour. Even the French fans seemed to have warmed to him as I don't recall any urine-throwing, foul-mouthing behaviour.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> What did he say? This pub is too damn noisy



The French bit was: "Thank you for your kindness at this difficult time. You have the most beautiful country and the most beautiful race. Vive le Tour et vive la France!"


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Urgh, think I prefer the Go Compare jingle to the British anthem.


We really ought to modernise it to the 1920s...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sG1ibc9Hvc


----------



## seraphina (24 Jul 2016)

+1 for the Skoda adverts, for actually managing to show people other than middle aged white males on bikes.


----------



## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

seraphina said:


> +1 for the Skoda adverts, for actually managing to show people other than middle aged white males on bikes.


But minus several hundred for showing a Skoda following dangerously close to that woman pulling away from a temporary traffic light.


----------



## suzeworld (24 Jul 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Is it just me, or do others find the Skoda advertisements patronising and annoying? To me them seem to exemplify ignorant pre-conceptions about cyclists, and take the piss in a way which I'd expect from ignorant motorists.
> 
> Makes me wonder why on earth they sponsor it. Apologies if this has already been covered.



I think they are funny --- I did start a thread on it here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/skoda-sponsorship-ads-around-itv4-tour.203757/


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

Oh well, that's it over for another year.


----------



## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Oh well, that's it over for another year.



Damn.


----------



## Dayvo (24 Jul 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> Oh well, that's it over for another year.



Didn't you record it?

You can watch it again and see if you're any better at predicting the stage winners.


----------



## themosquitoking (24 Jul 2016)

It was crazy at times, the images of Froome running up the mountain will be played for ever.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (24 Jul 2016)

Dayvo said:


> Didn't you record it?
> 
> You can watch it again and see if you're any better at predicting the stage winners.



Oh yeah!


----------



## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Urgh, think I prefer the Go Compare jingle to the British anthem.



I still like Billy Connolly's idea of using the Archers theme...


----------



## Mike_P (24 Jul 2016)

On the subject of watching it again are DVDs commonly available? I got the 2013 Tdf on DVD as it was part of a 2014 Tdf Magazine package but have never seen DVDs since.


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## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Damn.



Vuelta soon.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

Mike_P said:


> On the subject of watching it again are DVDs commonly available? I got the 2013 Tdf on DVD as it was part of a 2014 Tdf Magazine package but have never seen DVDs since.


If you are happy with Brit winners and cheating Lance
http://cyclingweekly.ipcshop.co.uk/...france-giro-vuelta/tour-de-france-dvds?Page=0


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## coffeejo (24 Jul 2016)

I'll have to get on with Stuff tomorrow. Well, at least until the Olympics.


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## jarlrmai (24 Jul 2016)

mjray said:


> But minus several hundred for showing a Skoda following dangerously close to that woman pulling away from a temporary traffic light.



And someone beeping.


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## smutchin (24 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Vuelta soon.



Looking forward to seeing Hugh Carthy on the big stage. Expect some of the misfires from the Tour will be looking for a chance at salvation too. Could be a good one.


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## rualexander (24 Jul 2016)

Any catch up coverage or highlights of La Course on anywhere?
Only about ten seconds shown on the ITV4 highlights programme just now.


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## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Looking forward to seeing Hugh Carthy on the big stage. Expect some of the misfires from the Tour will be looking for a chance at salvation too. Could be a good one.


Carthy is in the Volta a Portugal starting on Wednesday...
...as are Pellizotti and Schumacher, as a matter of


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## mjr (24 Jul 2016)

rualexander said:


> Any catch up coverage or highlights of La Course on anywhere?
> Only about ten seconds shown on the ITV4 highlights programme just now.


Highlights 11.10pm tonight Eurosport, repeated 10am and 4.30pm tomorrow, 11.10am Tuesday.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (24 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Carthy is in the Volta a Portugal starting on Wednesday...
> ...as are Pellizotti and Schumacher, as a matter of


Carthy is also at the Prueba Villafranca - Ordiziako Klasika* tomorrow.

As is Simon Yates.

* what do you mean you've never heard of it...


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## rich p (24 Jul 2016)

Marmion said:


> Carthy is also at the Prueba Villafranca - Ordiziako Klasika* tomorrow.
> 
> As is Simon Yates.
> 
> * what do you mean you've never heard of it...


Of course I've heard of it. It's a restaurant in Playa del Mar.


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## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

Tony Martin's abandon was precautionary due to knee pain, in order to protect his Olympic hopes according to L'Equipe.


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## HF2300 (24 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> Looking forward to seeing Hugh Carthy on the big stage. Expect some of the misfires from the Tour will be looking for a chance at salvation too. Could be a good one.



Contador's main objective now, apparently, via San Sebastien and Burgos (according to 'a spokesman')


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## ColinJ (24 Jul 2016)

rualexander said:


> Any catch up coverage or highlights of La Course on anywhere?
> Only about ten seconds shown on the ITV4 highlights programme just now.


I hadn't watched the daytime coverage on any other stage but I did manage to catch the coverage of La Course this afternoon before I went out to the shops.

Good job I did, given how pitiful tonight's _'highlights'_ of the women's race were! (Basically "_Some women were riding bikes, lots fell off, there was a sprint at the end which this rider won ... and now back to the race_"!)


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## HF2300 (25 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I'll have to get on with Stuff tomorrow. Well, at least until the Olympics.



Olympics, Paralympics, Vuelta, ToB. That's my productivity knackered for August & September.


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## PaulB (25 Jul 2016)

Isn't it amazing just how little coverage is given to Chris Froome by certain 'newspapers'? When we had world champion/Olympic Gold Medal hockey players, javelin throwers and triple-jumpers, the papers found a new interest in these sports and sportspeople and they were rightly given ample coverage. Some papers having declared war on cycling and cyclists though only report on Chris Froome's success through gritted teeth. The Daily Vile/Heil seem to publish Froome's success as reluctantly as the Sun 'newspaper' feels it necessary to print anything about Liverpool Football Club. And then they open up (manipulate) the comments below the article to satisfy their ends. It's really laughable how little credit is given to a true British success story where certain scandal sheets are concerned.


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## coffeejo (25 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Olympics, Paralympics, Vuelta, ToB. That's my productivity knackered for August & September.


I'm doomed.


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## Dogtrousers (25 Jul 2016)

Radio 5 devoted a significant chunk of their coverage of the last stage to an extended bellyaching section agonising over why the British public haven't taken to Froome. The question is - who cares? CF probably doesn't - he seems extremely happy and chilled out with his success; the great British public don't care much about cycle sport one way or the other. Which leaves the meeja, struggling to find something to blather about.


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## brommers (25 Jul 2016)

Froome confirmed as riding in the RideLondon


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## Dogtrousers (25 Jul 2016)

brommers said:


> Froome confirmed as riding in the RideLondon


The bugger, how did he wangle that? I hope he entered the ballot like the rest of us.


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## psmiffy (25 Jul 2016)

PaulB said:


> Isn't it amazing just how little coverage is given to Chris Froome by certain 'newspapers'? When we had world champion/Olympic Gold Medal hockey players, javelin throwers and triple-jumpers, the papers found a new interest in these sports and sportspeople and they were rightly given ample coverage. Some papers having declared war on cycling and cyclists though only report on Chris Froome's success through gritted teeth. The Daily Vile/Heil seem to publish Froome's success as reluctantly as the Sun 'newspaper' feels it necessary to print anything about Liverpool Football Club. And then they open up (manipulate) the comments below the article to satisfy their ends. It's really laughable how little credit is given to a true British success story where certain scandal sheets are concerned.



Agreed - but 4 out of the ten newspapers (and one was the local rag) that I scanned the headlines of when I went to the garage this morning had a picture of Froome on the frontpage - to my mind it was the papers that counted - who cares what the sleazloids print or think


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## jarlrmai (25 Jul 2016)

It's been a pleasure Tour de Francing with you lot again. See you at the Vuelta, TOB and the Olympics.


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## Crackle (25 Jul 2016)

Christ....What to do today.........twiddles thumbs.................sucks in cheeks...........


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## Paulus (25 Jul 2016)

I do have certain withdrawal symptoms today as the tour is over. A whole year to go. Will ITV4 be showing the Vuelta live, or just a highlights program?


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## brommers (25 Jul 2016)

jarlrmai said:


> It's been a pleasure Tour de Francing with you lot again. See you at the Vuelta, TOB and the Olympics.


How about joining the Pro Tour Punditry?


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## brommers (25 Jul 2016)

Crackle said:


> Christ....What to do today.........twiddles thumbs.................sucks in cheeks...........



Tour de Wallonie stage 3?


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## Basil.B (25 Jul 2016)

Paulus said:


> I do have certain withdrawal symptoms today as the tour is over. A whole year to go. Will ITV4 be showing the Vuelta live, or just a highlights program?



Just the highlights, better than nothing.
Starts August 20th.

http://www.lavuelta.com/la-vuelta/2016/us/


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## Twizit (25 Jul 2016)

49 weeks to go....


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## perplexed (25 Jul 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> The bugger, how did he wangle that? I hope he entered the ballot like the rest of us.



Dunno... It's a bit like the Wimbledon/FA cup final/any major sporting spectacle thing... How on Earth does 'royalty' put up with queueing for hours/days on end to get prime seats?


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## Louch (25 Jul 2016)

Heard he's only doing the short route


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## Supersuperleeds (25 Jul 2016)

I'm having withdrawal symptoms. I miss the Lloyds advert


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## deptfordmarmoset (25 Jul 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm having withdrawal symptoms. I miss the Lloyds advert


If only there were somewhere where you could immediately find out what the most irritating advert was....


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## smutchin (25 Jul 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> If only there were somewhere where you could immediately find out what the most irritating advert was....



Fantastic!


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## suzeworld (26 Jul 2016)

<sigh>
all over for another year -- thanks for the ride, folks, it has been fun sharing it with you


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## Dogtrousers (26 Jul 2016)

Cav canary yellow. Reichenbach falls. Yates deflates. Froome-jogg. Nairo nothing.. Reichenbach falls (again). Kittel smitten. Greipel grins. The end.


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## coffeejo (26 Jul 2016)

In eleven months we'll be all "oh my god, we're back again".


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## Hill Wimp (26 Jul 2016)

coffeejo said:


> In eleven months we'll be all "oh my god, we're back again".


Yes and one year closer to retirement


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## perplexed (26 Jul 2016)

And just to make things even more bleak, it'll soon be b&**dy Christmas...


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## Dogtrousers (26 Jul 2016)

perplexed said:


> And just to make things even more bleak, it'll soon be b&**dy Christmas...


Hang on, not so fast. First we all have to fall off due to wet leaves, find that our lights are broken, fall off due to ice, discuss overshoes and winter boots ...


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