# Cycle Super-Highways



## Origamist (21 Jan 2009)

A bit more info about the Super-Highways.

*Mayoral Q&A:* 



_*101** / 2009 Cycle Super-Highways*

Could you expand on your plans regarding the 12 cycle super-highways and
where these will be built?

*Joanne McCartney*_


Cycle highways will be a set of twelve high-profile radial routes into
and out of Central London that will concentrate cycle flows and provide
a fast and efficient way into the centre.

TfL is currently working on the definition of the specific routes; it is
expected that a more detailed announcement will be made by the Mayor in
Spring. This will include information on the implementation of the first
routes and associated package of measures.

Cycle highways will comprise a package of innovative measures, including
information along the route, to encourage people to cycle. They will
also include engineering interventions where necessary.



Due to the nature of the road network, Cycle Highways cannot be a
'one-size-fits-all' solution; however, they are likely to be based on
the following basic principles:

· *** Safety*: All routes will include safety measures. These
may include traffic calming measures, enforcement and advance stop
lines among others.

· *** Directness*: They will follow direct and reliable
routes into Central London with clear information on cycling time
to destination provided.

· *** Continuity*: The whole route will be clearly marked
from beginning to end.
· *** Visibility*: Each route will have a clear identity--
e.g. 'Docklands Cycle Highway' or 'Northern Line Cycle Highway',
with consistent and easy to follow road markings and signs.

· *** Comfort*: Road surface conditions will be improved and
obstructions will be minimized.
· *** Value for Money*: To make best use of existing
resources, cycle highways will concentrate on pragmatic and simple
measures and will not depend heavily on engineering
interventions.


----------



## CotterPin (21 Jan 2009)

Thanks for this, Origamist. I am still a little bit confused about two things, however:

How will the "super highways" will be in any material way on the ground different to the LCN+?

And given the fact that Johnson cut funding for the LCN+ because he said the measures needed to complete it (for instance at junctions) would be unpopular (ie with motorists), how will these issues be addressed with the "super highways"?


----------



## Bollo (21 Jan 2009)

Hi O,

I'm sure you've seen dellzigg's excellent info-rants in Campaign, which I think describes the problem to a T. Give roads with cycle-lanes a fancy name, splat down some more paint and spend the cash on some champers and consultants.


----------



## Origamist (21 Jan 2009)

Dellzeqq is almost a neighbour of mine (I'm a SW16 man) and I agree with him that the A24/A3 is already a cycling "Super Highway" and I am sceptical that a Mayoral backed "Northern Line" Cycle Highway will be any better. I'd love to be proved wrong though...


----------



## Arch (21 Jan 2009)

I like the idea of diplaying cycling time to destination (maybe they mean on maps, but I'd like to see signs by the road). Add in driving time (assuming normal peak traffic) and some people in cars might start to see sense...

Otherwise, token road paint is just that - token.


----------



## marinyork (21 Jan 2009)

Ah yes but there is the eternal question, green or red paint ?


----------



## HF2300 (21 Jan 2009)

Arch said:


> I like the idea of diplaying cycling time to destination (maybe they mean on maps, but I'd like to see signs by the road).



I don't know - where they already do this for cars (e.g. motorways) it seems to me the timings are set at such high averages they become targets, rather than useful indications...



Arch said:


> Add in driving time (assuming normal peak traffic) and some people in cars might start to see sense...



...but that's a great idea. You are 10 minutes away by bike or 30 by car...



Arch said:


> Otherwise, token road paint is just that - token.



Absolutely


----------



## BentMikey (21 Jan 2009)

*raises eyebrow*
*doubts Bojo*


----------



## Origamist (27 May 2009)

Brief details of the first two "Super-Highways": ​

The Southwark route will be the A24/A3 - Merton - Tooting - Kennington Park Road - Elephant and Castle improved bypass - Southwark Bridge Road - Southwark Bridge - City. ​
The route must be ready by May 2010. The other pilot route is City - Cable Street - east out along the A13. ​


----------



## lech (27 May 2009)

The one approaching the Olympic Park from the north east, where my house is, is a load of steaming crap.

(the Superhighway, not my house)


----------



## aj82 (27 May 2009)

I ride part of the A24 route daily, although I work out of town so go in the opposite direction to rush-hour flow but it'll be interesting to see how the Northern Line highway will pan out or if it's yer usual Johnsonian blustering.

Frankly I can't really see it working on narrower town centre stretches, like Tooting, too much clutter, parked vans, idiots stepping out in front of you.

Presumably nobody further out than Merton has ever considered cycling. Is it just going to stop at the Colliers Wood tower then?

Questions, questions.


----------



## N1ck (27 May 2009)

I continue further than Colliers Wood to Carshalton.
I know some who continue to Epsom


----------



## marinyork (27 May 2009)

What sort of interventions are meant? If you're serious about it surely it would mean double yellow lining a lot of these routes?


----------



## dellzeqq (27 May 2009)

Origamist said:


> _Brief details of the first two "Super-Highways": _​
> 
> 
> 
> _The Southwark route will be the A24/A3 - Merton - Tooting - Kennington Park Road - Elephant and Castle *improved bypass* - Southwark Bridge Road - Southwark Bridge - City._


it would need to be - both the eastern and western bypasses are pretty awful. But, then again WHY DON'T THEY REDESIGN THE ELEPHANT SO IT IS A NICE PLACE TO BE? As in walk and cycle. (With apologies for capital letters).





Origamist said:


> _The route must be ready by May 2010. The other pilot route is City - Cable Street - east out along the A13._​


ffs. Cable Street will never be a Super-Highway.
​


----------



## TheDoctor (27 May 2009)

Redesign the elephant? What, like give it two trunks or something?


----------



## Origamist (27 May 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> it would need to be - both the eastern and western bypasses are pretty awful. But, then again WHY DON'T THEY REDESIGN THE ELEPHANT SO IT IS A NICE PLACE TO BE? As in walk and cycle. (With apologies for capital letters).​
> 
> 
> 
> ffs. Cable Street will never be a Super-Highway.



The mayor kiboshed the last E&C redevelopment proposal as it would adversely affect traffic flows: 

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3613 

Any piss-poor road has the potential to be a Super Highway as far as I can see, just like the LCN.


----------



## byegad (27 May 2009)

Is it true that, where motor traffic crosses the Super Highway, drivers will be required to switch off, get out and push over the Super Highway, when it's clear of cycle traffic of course, and only restart the engine once clear of the  SH??????

 I only ask as that's how most cycle routes work when crossing main roads.


----------



## Amanda P (27 May 2009)

Arch said:


> I like the idea of diplaying cycling time to destination (maybe they mean on maps, but I'd like to see signs by the road). Add in driving time (assuming normal peak traffic) and some people in cars might start to see sense...



That is an idea of breathtaking genius. 

So it'll never happen.


----------



## CotterPin (27 May 2009)

byegad said:


> Is it true that, where motor traffic crosses the Super Highway, drivers will be required to switch off, get out and push over the Super Highway, when it's clear of cycle traffic of course, and only restart the engine once clear of the  SH??????
> 
> I only ask as that's how most cycle routes work when crossing main roads.



Yep - "End of motor road" will be painted on the ground and there'll be little blue notices saying "Drivers, get out and push"!


----------



## Bollo (27 May 2009)

Origamist said:


> ....
> The route must be ready by May 2010... ​


I'm sure someone of your precision wouldn't use the word 'must' without good cause.B) So, who's imposing the 'must' and what happens if the 'must be' becomes an 'isn't'?


----------



## Bollo (27 May 2009)

CotterPin said:


> Yep - "End of motor road" will be painted on the ground and there'll be little blue notices saying "Drivers, get out and push"!


Drivers should stop moaning. They don't even pay path tax!


----------



## Origamist (27 May 2009)

Bollo said:


> I'm sure someone of your precision wouldn't use the word 'must' without good cause.B) So, who's imposing the 'must' and what happens if the 'must be' becomes an 'isn't'?



The news was delivered by Councillor Jeff Hook and Council Officers Todd Strehlow and Barbara-Anne Overwater at the May meeting of Southwark Cyclists. "Must" is a "must", Bollo. When have you ever heard of a councillor reneging on a promise...?​

I think the 2010 target is achievable - all they need to do is call the current route a Super Highway and they're more than half way there...​

Source:​​​​​
http://www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk/newsletters/2009_06_news.pdf


----------



## marinyork (27 May 2009)

This whole idea sounds like a glitzed up version of the cycle route opened near me recently B).


----------



## Bollo (27 May 2009)

Origamist said:


> The news was delivered by Councillor Jeff Hook and Council Officers Todd Strehlow and Barbara-Anne Overwater at the May meeting of Southwark Cyclists. "Must" is a "must", Bollo. When have you ever heard of a councillor reneging on a promise...?​
> 
> I think the 2010 target is achievable - all they need to do is call the current route a Super Highway and they're more than half way there...​
> 
> ...




Thanks O. Despite my tendency to sarcasm this was a (fairly) serious question. I was wondering if any infrastructure funding was tied to a particular budget, election date or some planned running races in East London.

If my local councillor made a promise to be a strident, single-issue nimby, then she's sure as f*** keeping that one!


----------



## dellzeqq (28 May 2009)

Bollo said:


> Thanks O. Despite my tendency to sarcasm this was a (fairly) serious question. I was wondering if any infrastructure funding was tied to a particular budget, election date or some planned running races in East London.



There is no specific LOCOG funding for cycling infrastructure associated with the games. There is a one-line commitment in the Olympic bid to sustainability and there is a 'hope' (and nothing more) that 20% of all visitors to the games will cycle or walk - which makes sense when you consider that people queued for two hours to get a bus away from the Sydney Olympics at the end of the day.

However - it took a bit of a stink to get cycle parking in the Olympic park _next to the velodrome_ (doh!) and TfL's group which includes reps from the LCC and Sustrans is wedded to the idea of cycle routes that will have very limited capacity. 

There is, actually, a problem that hitherto people planning for cyclists have not really had to consider overmuch. Ten thousand cyclists take up a huge wodge of space when they're on the move. Consider the BHF London to Brighton, or the Freewheel. It is as plain as a pikestaff to all but cycling organisations that getting squillions of bikes to the Olympics is a Mile End Road job, not a dopey Sustrans path across a park job. Or it would be if the Mile End Road wasn't being reserved for Olympic bigwig limos.

As far as the Super-Highways thing is concerned we're all going to have to reserve judgement. The first one to be declared (the A24/A3) is already a cycling super-highway - Johnson can only screw it up. Putting some more red tarmac from Clapham North to Colliers Wood is the obvious answer, but, since they've not done it so far I'm not holding my breath. 

The second, going up Cable Street is less hopeful. Cable Street ranks as one of the LCCs great LCN+ 'achievements' - the trouble is that hardly anybody uses it now that they've discovered that the A13 is quicker, and it doesn't take a genius to work out that running red tarmac from Tower Bridge along The Highway to the top end of the Rotherhithe tunnel (and through the tunnel!) would potentially give you something close to the success story that is the A200 (Tooley Street down to Greenwich). So the decision to use Cable Street looks like Johnson's 'car first' agenda is going to win the day. It's just a pity that the LCC is still supporting this crap, but if you're an organisation that judges itself by the size of the cycling budget then infrastructure is an absolute neccessity. 

And there's the rub. Everybody's getting all jiggy about £100 million for cycling. £140 million has been spent on LCN+ and it's largely been money down the drain. And there's one senior LCC bod who looks in on this forum who agrees with me.


----------



## jimboalee (28 May 2009)

The 'time to destination' notice boards on the Mways rely on a system where the vehicle's Reg No. is identified by a camera and then again some miles further. The average speed of the traffic is calculated by timing the passing of identical Reg No.s.

How is that going to work for bicycles? 

Probably, the flow of bikes is going to be monitored for a week or so by a copper with a radar gun and then an average plucked out of the air; to be used for ever more.


Here's my opinion.
There are thousands of 'cycling superhighways' around Solihull and Birmingham. An ordinary road instantly transforms into a 'cycling superhighway' immediately I start riding my bike on it. Motorists, take note.


----------



## Origamist (28 May 2009)

For non-Londoners who might be interested, here are some pics of the LCN+ at Cable Street:

http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.u...+ scheme profile - cable st tower hamlets.pdf

Whadya think, Super Highway material?


----------



## lech (28 May 2009)

_An ordinary road instantly transforms into a 'cycling superhighway' immediately I start riding my bike on it. Motorists, take note._ 

Word.


----------



## Amanda P (28 May 2009)

jimboalee said:


> The average speed of the traffic is calculated by timing the passing of identical Reg No.s.
> 
> How is that going to work for bicycles?



The timing for bicycles would be propaganda. It wouldn't have to actually be true. It could simply be the estimated time taken by someone travelling at 10 mph.


----------



## marinyork (28 May 2009)

Origamist said:


> For non-Londoners who might be interested, here are some pics of the LCN+ at Cable Street:
> 
> http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.u...+ scheme profile - cable st tower hamlets.pdf
> 
> Whadya think, Super Highway material?



Thankyou. Not sure I'm that impressed at all. Whether you call it a superhighway at all if you compare the photos it looks a fairly narrow and out of the way road. What is the cost of this thing?


----------



## Bollo (28 May 2009)

Ditto Mr myork. If you have to have segregated facilities then rather that than its predecessor, which looked awful. But yeah, its more cycling B-road than highway. There seems to be an awful lot of road furniture in place to achieve a marginal improvement.

But like dellzeqq says, if you've got all that cash in your pocket but little imagination and no political muscle to push real alternatives, then this is what is going to happen.


Handy for getting home after a ruck with those pesky blackshirts though.


----------



## dellzeqq (28 May 2009)

marinyork said:


> Thankyou. Not sure I'm that impressed at all. Whether you call it a superhighway at all if you compare the photos it looks a fairly narrow and out of the way road. What is the cost of this thing?


Lots
http://www.londoncyclenetwork.org.u...y/documents/annual report 2006-07 tow ham.pdf
the stupidity of this piece of work can hardly be overstated. Here we have a quiet road (albeit with lousy tarmac) which could be closed to rat-running car traffic with the installation of three or four gates with Fire Brigade locks - just as we have in 100 other locations in London. This would given the residents a quieter street which pedestrians could cross without looking four ways. Instead of which £300k is spent enlarging a cycle lane less than a mile long that very few people use, and brings pedestrians in to contact with cyclists in new and interesting ways. Genius! You could bus lane the nearside lanes of The Highway for less than half the cost, or even do it at one of the regular road re-surfacing intervals for the cost of some paint.

The Highway is not a comfortable stretch of road to cycle along, not least because it affords those drivers who have been daft enough to spend half a day on the A13 a sub-orgasmic sprint at the end of their commute. A little like the A200 Jamaica Road used to be....before they 24 hour bus-laned the nearside lanes.


----------



## stoatsngroats (28 May 2009)

Is there any likelyhood of making traffic lights have a 'cycle' phase, after the pedestrian phase, with green painted cycle direction lanes over the junction?

This would prevent the need for, what some percieve as dangerous ASL's, and  make the motorist wait longer  allow the motorists to progress through the junction without cycles getting in the way - they'd already be up the road.
If this was done at ALL junction, instead of the 'super H/way's' would this be a better way of spending the money?


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2009)

TFL want blue paint for the super-highways...


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

Oh no, not a third colour for cycle lanes/paths!


----------



## Frustrated (4 Jun 2009)

*Taking the "Super" out of Cycle Super Highways*

"Super"
For those who hadn't noticed, City Hall, Bojo and TfL are no longer using the word "Super" when refering to what are now "Cycle Highways" in all their public statements. The real fear should be that it doesn't just end up being "Highways" due to fears about cyclists un-smoothing the flow of traffic!

"Blue (Tory) Lanes"
On a more humorous note, the idea of blue cycle lanes is based on Bojo's paranoia of all things red, you only have to notice how he quietly rebranded the "LondON" logo from blue and red to Tory blue after his election (at a cost of about £100k). What next, blue London Buses?


----------



## Origamist (5 Jun 2009)

Bit more info here:

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/3929

Bojo is still referring to them as Super Highways - clearly not on message.


----------



## marinyork (5 Jun 2009)

It was announced on breakfast there'd be some sort of announcement (that's probably more detailed than whatever the news will say).


----------



## lech (5 Jun 2009)

Here's the latest info I found: 
-------- --------- --------
"Hot news from last night's Southwark Cyclists meeting. Routes for the first two of Boris Johnson's proposed 12 cross-London cycle superhighways, distinguished by blue asphalt, have been decided. Apparently they're to be ready by May 2010 (when the London Bike Hire scheme is also to being operation).

One will go through Southwark (A24 - A3 - Merton - Tooting - Kennington Park Road - Elephant and Castle improved bypass - Southwark Bridge Road - Southwark Bridge - City. 

What precise shape the route will take through the Elephant's notorious double-roundabout, given the stalled redevelopment works, is still to be decided.

The other pilot route is City - Cable Street - east out along the A13."


----------



## lech (5 Jun 2009)

Via Real Cycling and the Southwark Cyclists, the two routes suggested are as follows:
One will go through Southwark (A24 - A3 - Merton - Tooting - Kennington Park Road - Elephant and Castle improved bypass - Southwark Bridge Road - Southwark Bridge - City.
What precise shape the route will take through the Elephant’s notorious double-roundabout, given the stalled redevelopment works, is still to be decided.
The other pilot route is City - Cable Street - east out along the A13.​What’s noticeable plotting these on another of my Google Maps lash-ups is that they’re straight, like Roman Roads. How very Boris. On a more pertinent note, what on earth’s the point of paralleling the DLR so closely out east, the soon-to-be-vastly-upgraded Northern Line down south and why is the City the only place people apparently want to get to? Out here in the west, where transport investment is just something that happens to other people, I’m wondering when he’ll get round to us so I’ve actually got something to ride my shiny new velocipede* on in my leisure hours. Finally, I do hope no one digs up this map from a Pippa Crerar article about Ken Livingstone’s suspiciously similar scheme from last February. Look, they’re marked in blue and everything, and one even goes to Ealing.
More information about the scheme is coming to light elsewhere, with a Mayoral Answer being quoted referring to the ‘Docklands Cycle Highway’ or ‘Northern Line Cycle Highway’, which maps directly onto the two suggested by the Southwark Cyclists. More ominously:
To make best use of existing resources, cycle highways will concentrate on pragmatic and simple measures and will not depend heavily on engineering interventions.​This is the get-out clause - can’t be beastly to the motorist, so use existing cycle infrastructure such as the Cable Street scheme, change the colour, stick a few signs up and get Guto to tell everyone it’s a transport revolution. Doesn’t turn Balham into Beijing, though, does it?
In any case, there seems to be a strand of opinion (check it out on Google Streetmap, actually) that the A24/A3 corridor is already fairly well equipped:
As far as the Super-Highways thing is concerned we’re all going to have to reserve judgement. The first one to be declared (the A24/A3) is already a cycling super-highway - Johnson can only screw it up. Putting some more red tarmac from Clapham North to Colliers Wood is the obvious answer, but, since they’ve not done it so far I’m not holding my breath.​* Obviously my other half won’t be riding it to work - far too dangerous. Have you seen the traffic out there of a morning? Lethal.

http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/


----------



## Origamist (5 Jun 2009)

I recced the E+C bypass a couple of days ago and should have guessed it was highway material: glass on the path, flat bed lorry partially blocking Churchyard Row, poor surfaces, lots of light controlled juntions, students swarming over Ontario St etc. 

Remedial work is def needed!


----------



## Origamist (15 Jun 2009)

More discussion on Bike Radar:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/will-cycle-superhighways-really-be-super-22014


----------



## mangaman (15 Jun 2009)

got to love the artists impression from the TFL website of a "superhighway"


----------



## ketka82uk (15 Jun 2009)

Hmm, did Boris do that himself on Photoshop?

Nice.

Tory blue anyone?


----------



## ketka82uk (15 Jun 2009)

Also love the bus actually IN the "superhighway"...

Heh heh....


----------



## Brains (15 Jun 2009)

The Cable St 'super highway' which is almost up to the standard of a typical local village Dutch cycle path except without the proper rights of way has one major failing. 

At the end of the route by the Tower of London the City has closed off the onward route down Crutched Friars. 

Therefore you can no get into the West End, or even much of the City without either breaking the law or dicing with death on Lower Thames St, which is not suitable for bikes.

If BoJo is serious about cycle lanes then lets see him supervise, with one other adult cyclist, a group of say 15-20 12 year old on bikes from the Bank of England to the Olympic Park on any workday morning he choses. If it works as it would in Holland or Denmark then I'll support him, if it doesn't then he is simply putting on an act for the sake of appearing to get something done, which will be a real shame and a missed opportunity.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2009)

Cycling superhighways
Question No: 1420 / 2009
Jenny Jones

*Will you change the speed limit on all the cycling superhighway routes to 20mph? *

Answer from the Mayor:
This is not my intention. Although discussions with the boroughs are continuing and should they wish this to happen, speed limits on individual parts of the highway would be reviewed.


----------



## Origamist (21 Jul 2009)

*Cycle superhighways*

*Question No: 1879 / 2009*

John Biggs

Once your cycle superhighways come into existence, will motorcyclists be
allowed the freedom to use these?

*Answer from the Mayor*

Cycle Superhighways will not be designed for use by motorcyclists as
well as cyclists. Where routes delivered before July 2010 make use of
any existing bus lanes, then motorcyclists will be able to share those
lanes as part of the ‘motorcycles in bus lanes’ trial. Continued access
for motorcycles in bus lanes beyond July 2010 will be dependant on the
outcomes of the trial.


----------



## Origamist (22 Jul 2009)

Cycle Highways must tackle major obstacles to favour cyclists: 

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1425


----------



## CopperBrompton (22 Jul 2009)

Surely the simplest way to achieve cycling superhighways is simply to ban buses (and taxis and motorbikes) from the lanes formerly known as bus-lanes ...


----------



## Origamist (22 Jul 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Surely the simplest way to achieve cycling superhighways is simply to ban buses (and taxis and motorbikes) from the lanes formerly known as bus-lanes ...



And when there are not bus lanes...?


----------



## CopperBrompton (23 Jul 2009)

Not difficult to plan a route using them


----------



## Origamist (23 Jul 2009)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Not difficult to plan a route using them



It depends where you want to go, what time you're travelling and how much of a detour you're prepared to make. The purpose of SuperHs is that they are uninterrupted and direct (unlike the often serpentine character of the LCN). 

The "Northern Line" Super Highway will be using bus lanes for part of the route. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the interruptions to the bus lanes (2m+ cycle lanes, US style sharrows etc?) and how they tackle problem junctions (Stockwell, Oval and E&C)...


----------



## Origamist (25 Sep 2009)

A few opinions on Super-Highways:

http://thebikeshow.net/cycle-supermyways/

http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/09/recent-events-in-london-and.html


----------



## Origamist (1 Oct 2009)

TfL urged to fix Tooting gap in south London bike superhighway:

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/..._s_patchy_planning_mean_danger_for_cyclists_/


----------



## Origamist (10 Oct 2009)

I tackled the virtual super highway today at the Cycle Show, Earls Court. Funnily enough it is my commuter route...

Quite a crowd watched as I negotiated South London's roads. The only insurmountable problem I faced was the non-adjustable saddle on the TFL bike.







The super highway was a cycle lane in blue - perhaps wider than the min 1.5m we usually get, but not really "super". Hopefully the artist's impression is misleading.

This was me spinning through Tooting:


----------



## cannondale boy (10 Oct 2009)

Second picture looks like your going at 31mph...thats quite impressive! 

These so called superhighways are not looking very promising. When do reckon the council will start painting the streets blue?


----------



## Origamist (10 Oct 2009)

cannondale boy said:


> Second picture looks like your going at 31mph...thats quite impressive!
> 
> These so called superhighways are not looking very promising. When do reckon the council will start painting the streets blue?



Well as that particular route is supposed to be ready by next spring, I imagine work will start in the next couple of months...


----------



## marinyork (10 Oct 2009)

Really good stuff (the exhition not the er non-super superhighway). You got any other photos of stuff at the show?


----------



## ufkacbln (11 Oct 2009)

marinyork said:


> What sort of interventions are meant? If you're serious about it surely it would mean double yellow lining a lot of these routes?



Had an interesting chat at the Cycle Show yesterday about this and pointed out that many cycle lanes are rendered useless by the illegal parking of vehicles.


Apparently the plan is to vigorously enforce parking resrictions on these routes.

However intentions and reality are not always the same.


----------



## Origamist (12 Oct 2009)

I also asked how the S-H blue lane would work in cycle/bus lanes - I was not answered. I really hope they don't put a narrowish blue lane in the cycle/bus lane.


----------



## Origamist (12 Oct 2009)

Vid here with BJ:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThyvsKQK7LE


----------



## Origamist (22 Oct 2009)

From Mayor's Questions:

*Superhighways (1)*

*Question No: 2692 / 2009*

Jenny Jones

Will you guarantee that all the necessary safety improvements identified on the first two cycle superhighways, including facilities included in plans for the LCN+, will be completed in time for the opening?

*Answer from the Mayor:*

Proposals for each route, including safety measures, have been identified in consultation with the relevant boroughs. The route review process, completed in July 2009, incorporated recommendations from previous LCN+ studies and has generated an end to end solution for each Superhighway. I am determined to introduce the first two trial Cycle Superhighways by Summer 2010. Where very substantial engineering work or costly and time consuming land acquisition have been highlighted as a potential solution to address individual barriers to cyclists, alternatives have been identified. I also wish to introduce innovative measures to improve safety for cyclists such as trialling convex mirrors at traffic lights to help drivers of large vehicles to see along the length of their vehicle when turning left.*

*Superhighways (2)*

*Question No: 2693 / 2009*

Jenny Jones

Can you provide a list of all the proposed LCN+ changes which coincide with the proposed superhighways routes?

*Answer from the Mayor:*

For the pilot routes, the route assessments of each Cycle Superhighway included consideration of other planned schemes in Local Implementation Plan (LIP) and Transport for London Road Network (TLRN) programmes, including LCN+. Where these schemes are currently unfunded but achievable within the Cycle Superhighways budget, they will be taken forward as part of the pilot routes’ implementation. Equally, where schemes in existing programmes are funded and moving forward, they maybe modified to meet Cycle Superhighway requirements.
The alignment of the remaining Cycle Superhighway routes is to be confirmed following further consultation with highway authorities and other stakeholders.


*Superhighways (3)*

*Question No: 2694 / 2009*

Jenny Jones

Can you provide a breakdown of the number of serious injuries and fatalities for cycling casualties on each of the Superhighway routes over the latest available three year period?

*Answer from the Mayor:*

Based on the current definition of the Cycle Superhighways and not including where the routes leave the public highway (through parks etc.)the following number of cyclist were killed or seriously injured:**
*Fatal:*
2008 = 8
2007 = 4
2006 = 5***
Serious*:
2008 = 84
2007 = 77
2006 = 66


*Cycling Superhighways*

*Question No: 2713 / 2009*

Valerie Shawcross

Will road space be allocated to the cyclist from motorised traffic on your planned cycling Superhighways?


*Answer from the Mayor:*

Cycle Superhighways will be designed to minimise impacts on other road users, while ensuring the provision of safe and continuous routes for cyclists. The aim of the scheme is to increase the number of cyclists on London’s roads without adversely affecting traffic flows or traffic and bus journey times.
TfL will closely monitor the Cycle Superhighways, and will collect data on journey times, traffic flows and speeds. This data will be used to assess the impact of the Cycle Superhighways and identify any changes that need to be made as part of the roll out.

http://thebikeshow.net/cycling-questions-and-answers-from-the-mayor-of-london-oct-09/


----------



## Origamist (10 Feb 2010)

A few more detials about CSHs:​


*Cycle Superhighways concept. *
​The basic concepts for CSHs are listed below:​
(a) workplace offerings, such as business events, tailored packages for 
employees and provision of cycle facilities;​

( home end offerings, such as marketing campaigns, tailored packages to individuals and residential cycle parking;​

(c) cycle support for school leavers by encouraging students to cycle to 
work once they leave school/college;​

(d) targeting organisations with large numbers of HGV and freight drivers 
who will travel along the CSHs by introducing measures to help avoid 
collisions with cyclists;​

(e) blue branding of routes – all relevant CSH infrastructure, including 
surfacing material, signage etc. will be coloured blue;​

(f) wide, continuous cycle lanes (new or improved), typically 1.5 metres 
to 2.5 metres in width;​

(g) continuous lanes through junctions, i.e. through junctions and slip 
lanes where traffic joining or leaving has to cut across cyclists 
travelling ahead;​

(h) mirrors at traffic lights, known as Trixi mirrors, to prevent collisions 
by revealing cyclists and pedestrians hidden in lorries' blind spots. 
Their use is subject to Government approval and TfL is currently in 
talks with the Department for Transport to secure the go ahead 
following a series of accidents involving lorries turning left at 
junctions;​

(i) cycle-friendly studs/reflectors at potential conflict locations to 
reinforce cycle lane markings and to raise awareness of cyclists to 
turning motor vehicle drivers;​

(j) entry treatments (raised carriageways) at side road junctions to 
minimise the speed of turning vehicles;​

(k) the closure of some side roads (with cycle access retained) to minimise conflict;


(l) possible diversions to avoid difficult junctions;​

(m) speed restrictions, where locations have high activity/high risk and 
reduce speed limit to 20mph where viable; and navigation measures, such as ‘spurs’ on roads off the CSH leading to other popular destinations and alternative routes through quiet roads, including links to London Cycle Network plus routes.​

(n) other popular destinations and alternative routes through quiet roads, 
including links to London Cycle Network plus routes.​
http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000363/M00003194/$$ADocPackPublic.pdf​


----------



## StuartG (11 Feb 2010)

Anybody here got an interest in the projected CS6 route (basically the 176 route Penge - Sydenham - Forest Hill - East Dulwich - Camberwell - Elephant & Castle joining CS1)? 

Some interesting challenges on the route and it would be good to see it user rather than planner led. That's if we think it a good enough idea. At least we will have the experience of CS1 to evaluate it ...


----------



## CopperBrompton (11 Feb 2010)

_(l) possible diversions to avoid difficult junctions;_​
If one line could sabotage the entire project, it's that one.

CSHs make sense only if they take direct routes. As soon as they start going round the houses, they become a nonsense.


----------



## HJ (11 Feb 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> _(l) possible diversions to avoid difficult junctions;_​
> If one line could sabotage the entire project, it's that one.
> 
> *CSHs make sense only if they take direct routes. As soon as they start going round the houses, they become a nonsense*.



That is something most planners just can't get their heads round.


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> _(l) possible diversions to avoid difficult junctions;_​
> 
> 
> If one line could sabotage the entire project, it's that one.
> ...



That's a problem - you will have some cyclists battling through the major junctions (which are not officially part of the CSHs, but are _de facto_ CSHs) and you will have others, likely a minority, going round the houses on a _de jure_ CSHs to avoid junctions. That's the problem with TFL's soft measures - they will simply not tackle problem junctions and make them more cycle friendly.

I also understand, although it is still being discussed, that the blue CSH lanes will go through bus lanes - not a good idea as will it be left hooks a go go. 

The blue lane is supposed to be 1.5 to 2.5 meters wide - without being too cynical I'd imagine it will be more like the former for most of the route.

I'm not sure what they'll do about parking/unloading on the red routes that make up much of the CSH out of hours. 

I'm glad that they are talking about closing some of side roads on the route - down through Tooting there are dozens of these conflict points.

As it stands, I have not seen any evidence of the CSH infrastructure on my route (unless you include the addition of a 100m bus lane at Balham)and May is the anticipated opening date.


----------



## Davidc (11 Feb 2010)

Cycle Superhighways
Cycle Highways
Cycle Ways
Cycle Paths

There, that's better more realistic.


----------



## BentMikey (11 Feb 2010)

That said, bus lane paths are not a bad idea. They are perhaps the least bad compromise, provided the cyclists are shown via road markings to stick right out in the middle of the bus lane and not stay in the gutter.


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> That said, bus lane paths are not a bad idea. They are perhaps the least bad compromise, provided the cyclists are shown via road markings to stick right out in the middle of the bus lane and not stay in the gutter.



Historically, the problem with cycle lanes within bus lanes is that they are about sharing the bus lane with the bus (the bus has no need to straddle the white line). This usally means the cycle lanes are narrow. If the CSH lanes are 2.5m + wide then it will be less of a problem. My feeing is we will be getting 1.5 or so which will be shoot - I hope I am proved thoroughly wrong. 

If I had my way, I would simply paint the whole bus lane blue...


----------



## BentMikey (11 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> If I had my way, I would simply paint the whole bus lane blue...




LOL, that's what I was trying to imply.


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

BentMikey said:


> LOL, that's what I was trying to imply.



LOL - I'm glad I was able to help clarify your post.


----------



## Lurker (11 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> .... If I had my way, I would simply paint the whole bus lane blue...



Or have a 2.5m or so wide swathe of blue paint running along the centre of the bus lane - or a bit further out than that, wherever car parking's allowed. (Either way, we should have bought shares in whichever company makes the stuff).


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

Lurker said:


> Or have a 2.5m or so wide swathe of blue paint running along the centre of the bus lane - or a bit further out than that, wherever car parking's allowed. (Either way, we should have bought shares in whichever company makes the stuff).



In principle, I do not want any CSH cycle lanes within a bus lane as it has the potential to corall cyclists unnecessarily. I'd rather have 3 medium sized bike sharrows in the bus lane - one to the left, one in the centre, and one to the right. 

However, all of this may well be a moot point as they are still umming and ahhing over the idea (unless anyone knows different?)...


----------



## Lurker (11 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> In principle, I do not want any CSH cycle lanes within a bus lane as it has the potential to corall cyclists unnecessarily. I'd rather have 3 medium sized bike sharrows in the bus lane - one to the left, one in the centre, and one to the right....



Fair point. They do seem determined to have blue paint though....


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

Lurker said:


> Fair point. They do seem determined to have blue paint though....



Middle sky blue, I believe. 

I've just found out that the roll out date has been pushed back to the summer of 2010 for the two pilot CSHs. I imagine this is due to implementation issues after consulting with the boroughs/stakeholders concerned...


----------



## marinyork (11 Feb 2010)

Well I'm interested, I might use the Cycle superhighway 10 if it ever gets  built  painted. Not a big deal though I didn't really have many problems cycling through that bit of London as a newbie apart from what I later found out was called the Hanger Lane Gyratory which I found out even later than that has a cycle path to bypass it and the start of CS10 nearby somewhere called Park Royal.


----------



## gaz (11 Feb 2010)

Nothing from croydon? plenty of cyclists use the a23 everyday.. admidtidly the further you get away from london the less you see. but who is going to cycle from heathrow to london?


----------



## Origamist (11 Feb 2010)

gaz said:


> Nothing from croydon? plenty of cyclists use the a23 everyday.. admidtidly the further you get away from london the less you see. but who is going to cycle from heathrow to london?




CSH 6 goes from Penge to the City - so not too far from Croydon.

Map here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycling/cycle-superhighways-map-170909.pdf


----------



## StuartG (11 Feb 2010)

Left hand/right hand ... TfL are currently financing a new improvement scheme that covers part of CS6 in the next year. If CS6 does go ahead by 2015 TfL will have to pay for these improvements to be undone as they are incompatible with the CS approach. I think I've now got both sides of TfL talking to each other ... although the compromise might be no improvement and no CS6 (or it gets diverted elsewhere). I would like to hear from anyone with special interest in the southern end of CS6.


----------



## gaz (11 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> CSH 6 goes from Penge to the City - so not too far from Croydon.
> 
> Map here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycling/cycle-superhighways-map-170909.pdf



but that is going to take you over crystal palace... i don't like hills 

I'll use part of 7 of my commute, and i can't really complain about most of my route on the A23.


----------



## StuartG (12 Feb 2010)

gaz said:


> but that is going to take you over crystal palace... i don't like hills


Nope - from Croydon you would skirt round to the east passed Selhurst/Norwood Junction to join at Penge. Fairy flat. Then a gentle canter up to Forest Hill which is actually a valley between two. The worst is Dog Kennel Lane a short sharp hillock to rhyme with with the locals ...


----------



## chap (12 Feb 2010)

gaz said:


> Nothing from croydon? plenty of cyclists use the a23 everyday.. admidtidly the further you get away from london the less you see. but who is going to cycle from heathrow to london?




Funny you should mention that, interestingly enough I noticed that there is a very well thought out segregated cycle path which runs more or less the entire stretch of the A4 from Brentford to Heathrow.

I only noticed this because the M4 was closed, thus I was forced to use the diversion. I can tell you, each mile I progressed the more excited I became, when I got to the end my jaw was on the floor and I was notably very impressed. 

It is interesting that the LCC have not lavished praises, in each instalment of their magazine, upon whoever designed that system. 

Then again, they exist to serve their-selves.


----------



## chap (12 Feb 2010)

After some further research, I have found that the cycle facilities around Heathrow are even better than I had expected. As if it couldn't get any better the actual Airport has cycle facilities *and* information about arriving by bicycle!

It takes 90 minutes to get from Heathrow to Paddington by bike, and you can at least get into central London safely due to the segragated cycle path.

Heathrow Cycle Facilities Page

I seriously think I might start using this means to get there now.


----------



## CopperBrompton (13 Feb 2010)

Do you have details of the bike path by the A4? I just tried the TfL journey planner and it doesn't seem to know anything about it.


----------



## chap (13 Feb 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Do you have details of the bike path by the A4? I just tried the TfL journey planner and it doesn't seem to know anything about it.



Alas the best I can do is point you towards that link I put in my initial post, Heathrow Airport make mention of the path, there is a pdf which contains the part of it from their bit.

The only issue would be the poor cycle facilities when one reached Hammersmith. Although there is apparently a canal which is open to walkers and cyclists called 'Grand Union'.

Best bet appears to be to cycle from Paddington.


Heathrow cycle page
Discussion about cycling safely to Heathrow
Cyclechat discussion


----------



## CopperBrompton (15 Feb 2010)

I had a look, but it only showed the path immediately around LHR, and then points to the TfL Journey Planner for the rest. The latter just takes you there on roads.


----------



## marinyork (15 Feb 2010)

www.opencyclemap.org is incomplete but it might help. Very clearly shows where some bits of London stuff goes.


----------



## chap (15 Feb 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I had a look, but it only showed the path immediately around LHR, and then points to the TfL Journey Planner for the rest. The latter just takes you there on roads.




I almost doubted it myself, I was seriously considering cycling it with GPS to put on MarinYork's OpenCycleMap. 

The best I can do is provide this link, follow it up across Great West Road and you can see why it lives up to its name: 
Google Map Street View on Great West Road​


----------



## marinyork (15 Feb 2010)

If you have the GPS data and it's not on there I'll quite happily add it to opencyclemap.


----------



## chap (15 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> If you have the GPS data and it's not on there I'll quite happily add it to opencyclemap.



I am a fan of OpenMap and OpenCycleMap and would like to contribute. So far I have a mobile phone with GPS (Sony Ericsson W995) although the battery life on this is pitiful, are there any cheap devices* you can recommend for such contributions? 

*Ideally one which has a screen and map on it, unless it is indeed very cheap.


----------



## marinyork (15 Feb 2010)

chap said:


> I am a fan of OpenMap and OpenCycleMap and would like to contribute. So far I have a mobile phone with GPS (Sony Ericsson W995) although the battery life on this is pitiful, are there any cheap devices* you can recommend for such contributions?
> 
> *Ideally one which has a screen and map on it, unless it is indeed very cheap.



I'm not an expert, the one that people recommend is exceedingly expensive at about £100 (and it doesn't have a mapping screen either but it is very good at what it is designed to do which is track points, lots and lots of them).

Your phone is probably fine for tagging or getting the idea. As long as it outputs GPX or something that can be converted into GPX it's fine. 

There are plenty of other ways you can help out that don't involve doing tagging or tracks. You can source things through "local knowledge" or "surveys" on there. For example I added libraries, some shops, permissive paths and things and shedloads of cycle parking. Some places don't even have the road names on. There's billions of little bits and bobs people can do to slowly improve an area.

P.S. OSM updates almost instantaneously, whereas Opencyclemap is supposed to update once a week it is a bit more relaxed than that and can be up to every 2 weeks sometimes .


----------



## chap (15 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> I'm not an expert, the one that people recommend is exceedingly expensive at about £100 (and it doesn't have a mapping screen either but it is very good at what it is designed to do which is track points, lots and lots of them).
> 
> Your phone is probably fine for tagging or getting the idea. As long as it outputs GPX or something that can be converted into GPX it's fine.
> 
> ...




Yes, I believe it can save to GPX! 
I'll have to look into some software to edit them.

That's a shame that they take longer, I thought that using the same source, they would probably latch onto the OpenStreetMap site, then again if all interests did that then perhaps the main site would become overwhelmed.

Expect a new contributer


----------



## CopperBrompton (16 Feb 2010)

Thanks, I shall have a peruse


----------



## chap (16 Feb 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Thanks, I shall have a peruse



Don't forget to write up a review (of the cycle-path.)


----------



## CopperBrompton (17 Feb 2010)

I shall (though it's unlikely to be before April)


----------



## Origamist (17 Feb 2010)

*Work begins on London's first two Cycle Superhighways*

This para interests me: 

"Specific issues regarding various points on the two routes will also be addressed, such as studying the effect of changing the current two northbound lanes of the A3 approaching Elephant & Castle to one to allow a new, segregated cycle lane to be installed there, and a similar lane is also planned for the junction parallel to Stockwell Terrace. The Elephant & Castle gyratory system will also see improved signage."

http://road.cc/node/14528


----------



## Origamist (18 Feb 2010)

Blue paint on the ground:

http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2010/02/cycle-superhighways-start-here.html


----------



## CopperBrompton (19 Feb 2010)

It's definitely enough to make one feel blue.


----------



## Origamist (26 Feb 2010)

Cycle Superhighways - Updated TFL shite site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11901.aspx?lid=switcher

The artist's impressions (which are normally a bit fanciful and glitzy in most promotional material) are decidedly underwhelming in this case. I suppose it's an honest take on things (i.e new blue facilities are sub-standard cycle lanes and not CSH utopia).

I'll draw your attention to pic 5, Colliers Wood - the more observant of you will notice the 24 hour mini cab office on the left, those who know the area know what that means!

I'll also mention pic 3, Churchyard Row (which is the E+C bypass) - last time I used it the path was blocked by a flat bed truck and had glass strewn across it. It's also a hard left if you're coming from Kennington.

While I'm at it: 

Pic 8, Mansell St just looks a mess. On road provision, off-road provision, pedestrian conflict points...

Pic 2 Kennington Park Road - Black cab driver heaven - "get in the cycle lane" will be heard if you want to overtake a cyclist using the full width of the bus lane or simply want to ride farther out from the kerb, away from bus stops...

I could go on, but my monitor is getting flecked with sputum.


----------



## Bollo (26 Feb 2010)

If that's the aspiration then flip knows what the reality will be like!

I can't claim any particular planning expertise beyond being a regular cyclist, but I could pick gaping holes in nearly every one of those facilities. Astoundingly bad.


----------



## Bollo (26 Feb 2010)

Origamist said:


> I could go on, but my monitor is getting flecked with sputum.



Ewww!


----------



## Origamist (26 Feb 2010)

Bollo said:


> If that's the aspiration then flip knows what the reality will be like!
> 
> I can't claim any particular planning expertise beyond being a regular cyclist, but I could pick gaping holes in nearly every one of those facilities. Astoundingly bad.



I'm sure some of the measures that are being taken will improve the lot of cyclists (resurfacing, speed calming measures at side roads, removing pedestrian barriers, junction re-design etc), but some, clearly, will not. It's a real hotchpotch.


----------



## u9ge (26 Feb 2010)

As a minimum surely all super highways should have the same conditions as red routes to stop parking in them...

I am very skeptical they will. Also, the Wandsworth route used to run from Kingston, I wonder why half the route have upped and vanished like a fart in the wind?


----------



## Origamist (2 Mar 2010)

Work has finally stated on CSH 7 at Colliers Wood - I'll take some pics tonight. Unfortunately, the artist impressions seem to be accurate representations of what we're getting in South London. 

A photoshopped pic here by Ade at lfgss which would be funny if it wasn't prophetic:









http://www.lfgss.com/thread38486.html


----------



## Origamist (2 Mar 2010)

This is the junction at Longley Rd and Tooting High St, going south.

Apologies for the poor pics taken tonight:







Here's the junction with Blackshaw Rd and High St Colliers Wood, going north: 

(Here's how it used to be: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&l...noid=e-DyyGHygMqdAu2wjZhQ7w&cbp=12,18.12,,0,5 )
















I like the geometric collision of shapes here:


----------



## theboytaylor (2 Mar 2010)

That's just terrible. I'm sure it's been mentioned before but:
It's bloody cheeky painting existing infrastructure blue and calling it new;
Nearly every single artist's impression highlighted the likely location of countless collisions between cyclists and pedestrians or motor vehicles;
Those pictures of the actual work being done depresses me the most. Just sh1t layout and a bright strip of road surface that all the fcukwits can point at as they shout "getinthefackingcyclelaneyewcaahhhnnt".

I'm not in a good mood today, in case you couldn't tell...


----------



## stowie (2 Mar 2010)

So these are actual photos of the marvellous new scheme? Isn't this exactly the same as all the other schemes except that they have used the colour blue?

I enjoyed how the lane was blocked by queuing cars, and in one picture you can just make out a motorbike making good use of the ASL.

This is all too depressing for words. Actually it isn't too depressing for words - the words I am thinking of are "Boris, stick your stupid blue cycle lanes up your @rse".


----------



## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

stowie said:


> So these are actual photos of the marvellous new scheme? Isn't this exactly the same as all the other schemes except that they have used the colour blue?
> 
> I enjoyed how the lane was blocked by queuing cars, and in one picture you can just make out a motorbike making good use of the ASL.
> 
> This is all too depressing for words. Actually it isn't too depressing for words - the words I am thinking of are "Boris, stick your stupid blue cycle lanes up your @rse".



Yes, these are the first stages of the CSH7. They were doing work outside the junction at Tooting Bec tube yesterday, so if there's more blue paint on the ground, I'll take some more snaps. 

Apologies if it appears that I'm hogging this thread, but I'd like to chart the implementation of the design and see how it evolves.


----------



## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

Mayoral Questions - Feb 2010

Cycle Superhighway (1)
Question No: 486 / 2010
Richard Tracey

_What consultation took place with Merton and Wandsworth Councils on the Merton to City Cycle Superhighway, particularly regarding road widths and heavy traffic on this superhighway route?_

Answer from the Mayor:

TfL has undertaken significant consultation and engagement with local councils along the Merton to City route, as well as with other key stakeholders such as the emergency services, cycle groups and representatives of the freight industry.

In May 2009, TfL met with borough officers, including those from LB Merton and LB Wandsworth, to present and discuss the concept of Cycle Superhighways. Merton and Wandsworth Borough officers, along with other stakeholders, were subsequently involved with the detailed Merton to City Cycle Superhighway route inspection held in June 2009 to assess the proposed route alignment and identify cycling improvements. 

Throughout autumn and winter 2009 all boroughs along the route reviewed and commented on preliminary design drawings, and a number of changes were incorporated in light of this feedback. More recently, borough officers have had the opportunity to review detailed design drawings, prior to construction start. Traffic Management Plans for the construction phase are currently being finalised, prior to consultation with the Metropolitan Police and borough Traffic Managers. 

In parallel, TfL has engaged with town centre groups in agreement with borough officers, to update local residents and business owners in the footprint of the scheme. Leaflets and information have been distributed to properties along the length of the route. 

On 1 February 2010, TfL wrote to key stakeholders – including Assembly Members, Members of Parliament, and ward Councillors who have a route running through their constituency – to provide further information on the scope of the Cycle Superhighways works. The TfL website will be regularly updated to ensure that stakeholders are provided with information.

http://thebikeshow.net/cycling-questions-and-answers-from-the-mayor-of-london-february-2010/


----------



## gouldina (3 Mar 2010)

stowie said:


> So these are actual photos of the marvellous new scheme? Isn't this exactly the same as all the other schemes except that they have used the colour blue?
> 
> I enjoyed how the lane was blocked by queuing cars, and in one picture you can just make out a motorbike making good use of the ASL.
> 
> This is all too depressing for words. Actually it isn't too depressing for words - the words I am thinking of are "Boris, stick your stupid blue cycle lanes up your @rse".



I sent TFL a comment very much along these lines earlier after seeing those pictures.


----------



## Origamist (3 Mar 2010)

Upper Tooting Road and Tooting Bec Road...






Most of the cyclists I saw ignored the lane and cycled about 2-3 feet to its right.


----------



## stowie (3 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Upper Tooting Road and Tooting Bec Road...
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the cyclists I saw ignored the lane and cycled about 2-3 feet to its right.



And so would I past that crossing where pedestrians are likely to step from the kerb. The blue surface has just simply been dumped on top of the existing markings as well! In the first picture it looks like cyclists would have to move to the left whilst crossing the junction, to then move right and merge with the traffic after it. How on earth is this safe? Why doesn't the cycle lane cross the junction straight? I may be misreading the junction, but it looks like you would have to be hugging the kerb to keep in the blue lane.

This is really poor, and I am disappointed. When it was being said about the blue cycle lanes on road, I had really hoped that they would be a reasonable width, and more carefully thought out than the usual ones put in by local councils. It gives me no great pleasure to say it (since I thought Boris would be a force for good for cycling in London), but this looks horrible.


----------



## CopperBrompton (4 Mar 2010)

Minus points:
1. It's totally and absolutely shoot

Plus points:
1. It's very, very blue


----------



## marinyork (4 Mar 2010)

I wonder how the blue will fade. Red often fades pretty poorly despite often being more vibrant (initially) than the green cycle lanes.


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2010)

stowie said:


> And so would I past that crossing where pedestrians are likely to step from the kerb. The blue surface has just simply been dumped on top of the existing markings as well! In the first picture it looks like cyclists would have to move to the left whilst crossing the junction, to then move right and merge with the traffic after it. How on earth is this safe? Why doesn't the cycle lane cross the junction straight? I may be misreading the junction, but it looks like you would have to be hugging the kerb to keep in the blue lane.



You are not misreading the pics, Stowie. This is busy junction with lots of pedestrians (who have not been helped by the rephasing of the lights). I take a line through the centre or centre-left of this junction. If you keep far left, where the lane is painted you will get squeezed by merging traffic (when the vehicles are larger, it exacerbates the problem) and cars wanting to turn left into Stapleton Road - you'll also note that the lane across the junction heads towards the pavement. I have not measured the width of the lane (but will do that tonight), but it is not 2m that's for sure - looked more like 1.4m, if that. Oh, and there's two slippery when wet drain covers at the start of the blue lane! All that said, these are the first stages of the CSH, so things might improve?!

They have now put some more paint down on the way to Stockwell - I'll capture that in all its glory tonight.


----------



## WimbledonCyclist (4 Mar 2010)

I sense most people here are a bit underwhelmed. In any case, here is my current impression:

*The Cycle Superhighways are nothing but existing roads painted blue. The blue road marking serves one purpose, and one purpose only, and that is signposting for cyclists unfamiliar with the route.*

The picture that evidences most clearly that these routes are not going to be "SuperHighways" is the second one from the left in the bottom row ("CS-visuals-image-1 .jpg", "A13 towards City" in http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11901.aspx?lid=switcher). We see, on the picture, a shared lane, perhaps a metre wide, to be used by pedestrians and cyclists travelling in both directions, with some nice ribbed road surface to throw the cyclist off balance, and some bollards and lampposts to crash into. Also note the finishing touch: the cyclist will have to cycle along unmarked pavement for a stretch of about 12 metres, and in the process probably be required to commit what, _a prima facie_, looks like a violation of the Highway Code. Only a closer look at the little blue cycle lane sign on the bollard changes that, but as it stands, it's only confusing. The path would be safer without the sign and the bollard that only features there so the sign can be shown. 

It's bonkers.

Looking at the stated aims on TfL's website, I don't see how the scheme delivers any other benefits. It is likely to fail on every other count:

*Features*

*Direct and continuous*

The routes will be clearly marked and easy to follow. There will be new signage and road markings, and information about journey time and links to other cycling routes.

_*Comment: fair enough. That's my point above: the markings are hard to miss.*_ *Journey times are a complete red herring. Perhaps a distance-from-goal marker would be of some (limited) use to those unfamiliar with the route. Not "fair enough" though, is the "continuous" label. Are they implying improved traffic flow for cyclists here? But that doesn't improve: the number of traffic lights stays exactly the same. The promise is "direct and continuous". The outcome is that the road network stays exactly the same and cyclists follow the same route they used to, with the same number of traffic lights, and the same big hazards (the road split immediately after the traffic lights at Stockwell and after the *
*traffic lights at Oval station, both Citybound, spring to mind as examples).*

*Comfortable*

We'll be improving road surfaces and minimising obstructions along the routes so you can pedal more comfortably.

*Comment: keeping roads in good nick is an obligation councils etc. already have. There is nothing special about meeting road users' reasonable expectations for road maintenance. It's what I expect councils to do from the council tax I pay (in my case to Merton Council).*

*Easy to find*

Each Cycle Superhighway will have a clear and unique identity. Blue surfaces will also increase driver awareness.
*Comment: see comment 1 above. Also, "driver awareness" sounds nice, but in practice I don't see any substantial improvements to safety (see next comment).*

*Safe *

The Cycle Superhighways will be at least 1.5m wide and provide continuous cycle lanes at junctions, advanced stop boxes, and signals to help you keep safe. 
*Comment: this is a load of bull. The few markings along the Wimbledon-Bank route are, I guess, about 80 centimetres wide. I haven't measured them, but the width is nowhere near 1.5m, and besides, cars, lorries and the like can happily drive within these 80cm "lanes" as they please. Nothing significant actually changes along the Wimbledon-Bank route. The A3 and A24 are exactly the same old roads as before, with the same drivers, the same lorries, doing exactly what they've always done before.*


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2010)

Bloggers united: 

http://www.velorution.biz/2010/03/banana-republics/

http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2010/03/cycling-supercrap.html

http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2010/03/cycle-superhighways-safe-as-bank-of-er.html

http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/03/oh-london-you-really-need-to-try-harder.html


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2010)

I know you've all been waiting for it...Clapham Road and Union Road junction:


----------



## gaz (4 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> I know you've all been waiting for it...Clapham Road and Union Road junction:



That junction is really bad! it's a shame they haven't turned it into one car lane, people are still going to try and filter up the left.

I'll get some footage of this tomorrow on my way home


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> That junction is really bad! it's a shame they haven't turned it into one car lane, people are still going to try and filter up the left.
> 
> I'll get some footage of this tomorrow on my way home



Formerly, it had an ASL reservoir, but no feeder lane and it was difficult to reach the front. The real problem junctions/gyratories are at Stockwell, Oval and the Elephant and Castle. 

Although it's early stages, road space is not being allocated to cyclists at the expense of motorists - the lanes are being squeezed in, in an attempt not to inconvenience drivers using the A roads (I'm not sure what the capacity projections are, but I'd be interested to know). This is made clear here:




> ...wide traffic lanes, which enable traffic to overtake cyclists without moving into other lanes in the same or opposing direction


 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycling/Cycle-superhighways-questions-and-answers.pdf 

Unsurprisingly, they are hoping to encourage a modal shift primarily from the tube (and not the car) to cycling on this route.

The positioning of the lanes is often not compatible with cycle training best practice. In addition, what we've got so far cannot accommodate cyclists riding two abreast.


----------



## Bollo (4 Mar 2010)

Something about this struck me last night - I've never seen anything so gaudy in the two countries regarded as having the most established cycling cultures - the Netherlands and Denmark. This is surprising, as the facilities in these two countries often take priority over motor vehicles. For example, cars are required to give way to cycles when turning across a cycle path. These potential areas of conflict aren't marked with big dollops of paint. Instead, the onus is on the motorist to observe and act accordingly.

I get the impression from those pictures, and my experience of some of the bright red stuff on the NCN23 that I ignore every day, that our facilities are the exact opposite of those in NL and DK - they scream out 'facility' but offer nothing to the cyclist and demand no compromise from motorised road users. They're road apartheid. FSP - facility-shaped paint.


----------



## Origamist (5 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> I get the impression from those pictures, and my experience of some of the bright red stuff on the NCN23 that I ignore every day, that our facilities are the exact opposite of those in NL and DK - *they scream out 'facility' but offer nothing to the cyclist and demand no compromise from motorised road users. They're road apartheid. FSP - facility-shaped paint*.



Indeed. CS = "Cycle SimulacraHighways" or "Cycle SmurfHighways"


----------



## marinyork (5 Mar 2010)

Cycle SmurfHighways - love it .


----------



## Origamist (5 Mar 2010)

marinyork said:


> Cycle SmurfHighways - love it .



OrigamiSmurf, ready for CS 7 action:


----------



## Bollo (5 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> OrigamiSmurf, ready for CS 7 action:



This is one gentleman that's got a lot of explaining to do at doping control!


----------



## chap (5 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> That junction is really bad! it's a shame they haven't turned it into one car lane, people are still going to try and filter up the left.
> 
> I'll get some footage of this tomorrow on my way home




My goodness, THAT is what they spent millions of pounds on. Did they just have a massive pi*s up and then give somebody £200 and a pot of paint.


----------



## chap (5 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Bloggers united:
> 
> http://www.velorution.biz/2010/03/banana-republics/
> 
> ...




Well written and considered views, excluding the usual hyperbolic nonsense from Velorution.

Hembrow links to an interesting article describing implementation considerations when combining cycle and bus paths: Presto article [PDF]

It always confuses me as to how your average layperson could find highly relevant details concerning good cycling implementation, whereas the city councilors and Government officials always draft in consultants at great expense who then proceed to deliver the complete antitheses to the desired solution. How do they do this, and more importantly how do they continue to do this, time after time again?


----------



## Bollo (5 Mar 2010)

chap said:


> It always confuses me as to how your average layperson could find highly relevant details concerning good cycling implementation, whereas the city councilors and Government officials always draft in consultants at great expense who then proceed to deliver the complete antitheses to the desired solution. How do they do this, and more importantly how do they continue to do this, time after time again?



Being an expensive consultant myself I resemble that remark!  (not transport BTW). I get the impression the vision for these schemes are strangled at birth by reactionary highway departments, backed up by a gregarious road transport lobby and an at best unsympathetic press. Lets not forget the great driving, non-cycling masses who would not brook any of their roadspace being handed over to a few smelly, non-tax paying, RLJing, blah.... Taking the country as a whole, we get the facilities we deserve. 

Your last post reminded me of the day a year or two ago when the Gov announced £50M for cycling from the lottery. It must have been a quiet news day because it made it quite high up the items on the Beeb. I walked into work and my wonderful but non-cycling (not sarcastic - they're nice) colleagues seemed pleased for me until I educated them on the possible journey that money would take. I might even have told them to grab some shares in ICI or International Paints. And here we are. What's most upsetting is the inevitability of it all.


----------



## gaz (5 Mar 2010)

Video of union road and clapham road - 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpgE-a_sfE


----------



## chap (5 Mar 2010)

Bollo said:


> Being an expensive consultant myself I resemble that remark!  (not transport BTW). I get the impression the vision for these schemes are strangled at birth by reactionary highway departments, backed up by a gregarious road transport lobby and an at best unsympathetic press. Lets not forget the great driving, non-cycling masses who would not brook any of their roadspace being handed over to a few smelly, non-tax paying, RLJing, blah.... Taking the country as a whole, we get the facilities we deserve.
> 
> Your last post reminded me of the day a year or two ago when the Gov announced £50M for cycling from the lottery. It must have been a quiet news day because it made it quite high up the items on the Beeb. I walked into work and my wonderful but non-cycling (not sarcastic - they're nice) colleagues seemed pleased for me until I educated them on the possible journey that money would take. I might even have told them to grab some shares in ICI or International Paints. And here we are. What's most upsetting is the inevitability of it all.



Good old accountability 

Talking of Government, I wonder how our wonderful leader gets from Number 10 to the Houses of Parliament? Is it like this?


----------



## Origamist (11 Mar 2010)

marinyork said:


> I wonder how the blue will fade. Red often fades pretty poorly despite often being more vibrant (initially) than the green cycle lanes.




The blue is already getting marked/abraded by tyres and in a few months it will have lost its lustre completely.

Still no advisory or mandatory lane markings on the three sections of CS7 - I guess they will follow.


----------



## chap (11 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> The blue is already getting marked/abraded by tyres and in a few months it will have lost its lustre completely.
> 
> Still no advisory or mandatory lane markings on the three sections of CS7 - I guess they will follow.



What better point than the poignancy of a single photo showing blue tarmac with a single car tyres tread marking the surface.


----------



## Origamist (11 Mar 2010)

chap said:


> What better point than the poignancy of a single photo showing blue tarmac with a single car tyres tread marking the surface.



Indeed - that was my thought too. If I had not been jet lagged, I'd have stopped and snapped...maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Origamist (13 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> Video of union road and clapham road -
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpgE-a_sfE




Gaz, your vid appears in the Guardian - Dave Hills London Blog:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehi...ohnson-cycle-superhighways-london-poor-review

PS The rider in front of you at the start of the clip is Clarion from YACF and a sometime CCer!


----------



## gaz (13 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Gaz, your vid appears in the Guardian - Dave Hills London Blog:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehi...ohnson-cycle-superhighways-london-poor-review
> 
> PS The rider in front of you at the start of the clip is Clarion from YACF and a sometime CCer!



sweeeeet


----------



## Origamist (14 Mar 2010)

CTC response to the CSs:​

"We have concerns that the design quality of the superhighways is too low for the
expected growth in cycling over the next 15 years.​
CTC believes that the design of these facilities, based primarily on the application
of advisory cycle lanes using a different colour paint, fails to take into account the
interventions higher up the Hierarchy of Solutions, namely reducing the volume
and speed of motor traffic. Whilst we understand the need for continuity to ease
wayfinding and improve confidence, the quality of the routes would benefit the
most through measures that dealt with the problems associated with motor traffic
first.​
The use of the London Cycling Design Standard minimum width of 1.5 m is
inappropriate for something marketed as a ‘superhighway’ since this gives
insufficient widths for two cyclists to travel side by side. We believe that the cycle
superhighways should be a minimum of 2 metres wide. This is the approach
taken to infrastructure in parts of Europe where cycle flows are very high, such as
in Denmark, where the use of blue painted cycle lanes is common.​
Like the problems with the LCN+, the Cycle Superhighways appear to be doing
little to tackle the major junctions which are the most significant barriers, both
physical and psychological, to new cyclists.​
In all other regards we believe the Cycle Superhighways project to be of
considerable value, especially the provision of targeted cycle training and other​smarter travel measures."

http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/0912_CTC-TfL_CSAP_con.pdf​


----------



## Origamist (14 Mar 2010)

They have reinstated the yellow box junction markings at Tooting Bec and it now goes over the CS at Upper Tooting Rd and Tooting Bec Rd:







This is how the same junction looked a week ago:


----------



## Origamist (18 Mar 2010)

Draft plan for CS8:

http://www.westminstercyclists.org.uk/CSH8.pdf


----------



## fossyant (18 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> Video of union road and clapham road -
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpgE-a_sfE




Ignore my 'ignorance' - but a few pots of blue paint here and there make a cycle super highway....????? (not being from the big smoke)....


----------



## StuartG (18 Mar 2010)

fossyant said:


> Ignore my 'ignorance' - but a few pots of blue paint here and there make a cycle super highway....?????


Errrr ... apparently. The bigger question is what colour would make it a cycle hyperhighway?


----------



## gaz (18 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> Draft plan for CS8:
> 
> http://www.westminstercyclists.org.uk/CSH8.pdf


I don't know much of this route, but i hope they get rid of that pavement facility on the way to chelsea bridge and extend the bus lane all the way up there.



fossyant said:


> Ignore my 'ignorance' - but a few pots of blue paint here and there make a cycle super highway....????? (not being from the big smoke)....



At present they are just adding it to certain junctions (at least i hope!!)


----------



## Origamist (18 Mar 2010)

gaz said:


> At present they are just adding it to certain junctions (at least i hope!!)



At present it is at three sites along CS7 and it is being trialled. There is therfore some hope that it might improve after the trial phase. 

I was reading elsewhere that they are using two different types of surfacing to see which is better. I had noticed this (one is smooth, the other is more textured), but I assumed this was a contractor error and not an experiment!

I also understand that businesses along the route have been asked to stagger delivery times of goods/merchandise.


----------



## gaz (18 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> At present it is at three sites along CS7 and it is being trialled. There is therfore some hope that it might improve after the trial phase.
> 
> I was reading elsewhere that they are using two different types of surfacing to see which is better. I had noticed this (one is smooth, the other is more textured), but I assumed this was a contractor error and not an experiment!
> 
> I also understand that businesses along the route have been asked to stagger delivery times of goods/merchandise.



Is the one at union road smoother? i haven't been on the other but i feel that under heavy breaking you could lose it.


----------



## Origamist (18 Mar 2010)

Gaz, you can see the different surfaces here (Union Rd/Clapham Rd): 

https://www.cyclechat.net/

The top image shows the treatment that is smoother and feels a bit slippy - it also appears to mark more easily. The bottom image with the ASL and feeder is rougher but does not seem to abrade so quickly. 

https://www.cyclechat.net/


----------



## gaz (18 Mar 2010)

Yes i see now. the rougher stuff in the ASL and feeder is wearing away


----------



## gouldina (18 Mar 2010)

fossyant said:


> Ignore my 'ignorance' - but a few pots of blue paint here and there make a cycle super highway....????? (not being from the big smoke)....



Yes yes. They're blue! Don't you get it? It's like double _red_ lines. You can't park on double yellows but double red lines you _really_ can't park on. That's why blue cycle lanes are extra-special. They're like normal cycle lanes but more so and blue. I hope that clears the issue up to your satisfaction.


----------



## Titan yer tummy (19 Mar 2010)

*Penge to London*



StuartG said:


> Anybody here got an interest in the projected CS6 route (basically the 176 route Penge - Sydenham - Forest Hill - East Dulwich - Camberwell - Elephant & Castle joining CS1)?
> 
> Some interesting challenges on the route and it would be good to see it user rather than planner led. That's if we think it a good enough idea. At least we will have the experience of CS1 to evaluate it ...



This is my route. I currently use the back roads, bridleways and park etc. Although my journey into Holborn is about a mile longer than it needs to be it will take a lot to make me use the Super H. I tried the S H route recently and was nearly taken out twice before I got as far as Beckenham War memorial: the second event really was highly dangerous and really put the wind up me, if I could have got his number I would have reported him and gone to court over it.


----------



## StuartG (19 Mar 2010)

Re CS6:


Titan yer tummy said:


> This is my route. I currently use the back roads, bridleways and park etc. Although my journey into Holborn is about a mile longer than it needs to be it will take a lot to make me use the Super H. I tried the S H route recently and was nearly taken out twice before I got as far as Beckenham War memorial: the second event really was highly dangerous and really put the wind up me, if I could have got his number I would have reported him and gone to court over it.



Two issues here. which route is best and then how do enhance it (invite it as the Copenhagens would say).

There appears a conflict amongst the planners as to whether it should go along main roads or hide away on parallel back roads. Its a choice between being with dangerous moving traffic or being sandwiched between parked cars on very narrow residential streets where there is no room even for delivery vehicles.

Unless they ban parking of course. Can't see that happening.


----------



## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

Not good news: 




> Cycle superhighways
> 
> Question No: 891 / 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

Not really a cycling revolution:



> Cycling Super Highways
> 
> Question No: 1179 / 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

Better news on ASL enforcement:



> Cycling Superhighways 2
> 
> Question No: 1180 / 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

A few hints on changes to Oval and Stockwell:



> The Cycle Superhighway through the Oval 2
> 
> Question No: 1187 / 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## HJ (31 Mar 2010)

These Cycle Superhighways are a great way to make London a laughing stock around the world, see here and here, well done Boris!!


----------



## style over speed (31 Mar 2010)

Origamist said:


> A few hints on changes to Oval and Stockwell:Question No: 1188 / 2010
> 
> Valerie Shawcross
> 
> ...




a raised barrier and narrow lane sounds really bad... is stockwell that grim? I don't have any problems with it unlike the Oval junction which is really terrible from all approaches.

Anyway Stockwell could easily be made safe for cyclists with extra large ASLs some way in front of the traffic and a dedicated cyclists green phase of the lights a few seconds before the green light for motorised traffic. 

Of course the DoT cannot see this because they have neither the capability or intelligence to do so.


----------



## Origamist (31 Mar 2010)

style over speed said:


> a raised barrier and narrow lane sounds really bad... is stockwell that grim? I don't have any problems with it unlike the Oval junction which is really terrible from all approaches.
> 
> Anyway Stockwell could easily be made safe for cyclists with extra large ASLs some way in front of the traffic and a dedicated cyclists green phase of the lights a few seconds before the green light for motorised traffic.
> 
> Of course the DoT cannot see this because they have neither the capability or intelligence to do so.



I'm having problems visualising what they have planned for Stockwell. 

Multi-lane mayhem and swiping are fundamental problems with Stockwell gyratory, particulalrly going south where you have to negotiate out of the Brixton lane into Clapham lane if you want to go straight ahead. Oval is indeed a nightmare for cyclists, and worse than Stockwell...

A dedicated green phase has its benefits, but it does not help cyclists who miss it. That said, I used a dedicated green phase with no problem in NY earlier this month:


----------



## gaz (15 Apr 2010)

New video.. most of the route 7 southbound - 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDNIalvoqQ


----------



## style over speed (15 Apr 2010)

gaz said:


> New video.. most of the route 7 southbound -
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDNIalvoqQ




its such a shame... those bits of blue paint are so obviously crap, and there seems to be no mechanism for suggesting improvements to them.


----------



## BentMikey (15 Apr 2010)

Can't believe how narrow they are and they try to claim this is a super highway? It's not even a 'kin footpath, much less a highway or a SUPER one. Completely to the left through junctions, teaching cyclists to ride in the most dangerous bit instead of taking the lane through each and every junction.


----------



## ianrauk (15 Apr 2010)

I can't believe the amount of pavement cyclists?



gaz said:


> New video.. most of the route 7 southbound -
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDNIalvoqQ


----------



## gaz (15 Apr 2010)

ianrauk said:


> I can't believe the amount of pavement cyclists?


Oh yes, it's very busy around here with traffic and plenty of cyclists, the junction needs a complete re-design if the pavement cycling is to stop.


----------



## Origamist (21 Apr 2010)

Gaz's vid is now here too: 

http://road.cc/content/news/16685-v...ndonMayorBoristriestopuzzleitoutwithbluepaint


----------



## gaz (21 Apr 2010)

Origamist said:


> Gaz's vid is now here too:
> 
> http://road.cc/content/news/16685-v...ndonMayorBoristriestopuzzleitoutwithbluepaint



It's certainly getting exposure... 1600 views in 1 week.


----------



## gaz (28 Apr 2010)

More paint layed down last night in tooting. With some wider sections in parking spaces. Will get some footage up tonight


----------



## Origamist (28 Apr 2010)

gaz said:


> More paint layed down last night in tooting. With some wider sections in parking spaces. Will get some footage up tonight



I'll get some snaps too. 

I didn't see them filming the CS promo film at Kennington last night, but here's the gen:

http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2010/04/shoot-tfl-create-new-superhighways-ad.html
http://realcycling.blogspot.com/


----------



## Origamist (28 Apr 2010)

Here's a couple of pics from Tooting High St and Broadwater Rd.

Note the "wobbly widening" of the blue lane as it moves from 1.5m to 2m to use up the width of the loading bays:


----------



## HJ (28 Apr 2010)

What a pile of pants! Does Boris seriously think this will impress anyone? Oh well, I suppose that is what you get when you vote Tory, public money wasted to paint the roads in the party colour...


----------



## lit (28 Apr 2010)

I really don't think they are as bad as people make out, ok they aren't perfect but people do seem to forget how old London's road system is.


----------



## gouldina (28 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> I really don't think they are as bad as people make out, ok they aren't perfect but people do seem to forget how old London's road system is.



London is the only city I know in the UK without a major pedestrianised section. What does that tell you about their priorities?


----------



## lit (28 Apr 2010)

We aren't talking about pedestrianised sections here but it'd be helpful if you could suggest what they could actually do without causing major disruption to all forms of traffic rather than ask a pretty pointless question.


----------



## gaz (28 Apr 2010)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfh2nW4blYI
- video of new markings.


----------



## stowie (28 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> We aren't talking about pedestrianised sections here but it'd be helpful if you could suggest what they could actually do without causing major disruption to all forms of traffic rather than ask a pretty pointless question.



That is the problem. To promote cycling, or walking, or even public transport would require more disruption to private vehicle usage - but that is the whole point, to make these forms of transport easier, and unless we start remodelling our city, this will necessarily take space away from the car.

There are many roads and junctions in London with the space for high quality cycling provision without really disrupting the flow of traffic (single lane traffic on wide roads). There are also many roads that could do with reducing the lanes to slow down motor traffic and make the area more safe and friendly. I always cite Tottenham Hale in this. A ring-road of 3 lanes of traffic which speeds far in excess of the 30mph limits that makes walking or cycling an absolute nightmare if you have to cross the road. Reducing the space for cars would slow traffic and provide the space for decent walking and cycling provision.

It needs a brave plan for cycling infrastructure if London is to go to the next stage of cycle use, and the cycle highways are not it.


----------



## CopperBrompton (29 Apr 2010)

User1314 said:


> I think I might sneak out one night and paint dolphins leaping out of the water, mermaids frolicking by the kerb and pirates mugging the pedestrians.


Oh, please do. :-)

I reckon you could get away with it so long as you wear a high-vis vest, have a white van and carry a clipboard with appropriate paperwork for the works to be completed.


----------



## CopperBrompton (29 Apr 2010)

gouldina said:


> London is the only city I know in the UK without a major pedestrianised section.


Trafalgar Square. Covent Garden. The South Bank. Carnarby Street. Etc, etc.


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

> It needs a brave plan for cycling infrastructure if London is to go to the next stage of cycle use, and the cycle highways are not it.


Why do you think they are not it? I feel relatively safe on London's roads without the blue paint (I've also cycled over some sections of it and felt a lot of drivers took more notice because of it's the colour. It's not perfect but I haven't seen many valid reasons why it's so bad, just people criticising it ad hoc.


----------



## stowie (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> Why do you think they are not it? I feel relatively safe on London's roads without the blue paint (I've also cycled over some sections of it and felt a lot of drivers took more notice because it's of the colour. It's not perfect but I haven't seen many valid reasons why it's so bad, just people criticising it ad hoc.



I do not think they will be the thing to get us increasing levels of cycling with a view to having the same number of cyclists as Copenhagen or Amsterdam. There seems to be little difference between the standard cycle provision and the super-highway apart from the colour. And though it may be modifying driving behaviour now because it is new (although in all of Gaz's videos and pictures there are still buses, lorries and cars encroaching), familiarity will breed contempt, and I cannot see how the blue lanes will not get full of cars, scooters etc. like a standard cycle lane.

Junctions are the most difficult for a novice cyclist, and it seems that no junctions are going to be altered for the cyclist on any part of the route. This is a big mistake.

I guess the issue is that us cyclists now have made a choice to cycle in spite of the provision, but the perception of the hazards of cycling will keep many people in their cars - the critical mass of cyclists will only go so far. To get a step change in cycling, their has to be a perception that cycling is quicker, easier, safer and more enjoyable than the alternatives. I don't this the current super highways do this. Coupled with the fact that these highways (along with the bike hire scheme) _are _the strategy, I think the money could have been better spent.


----------



## gouldina (29 Apr 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> Trafalgar Square. Covent Garden. The South Bank. Carnarby Street. Etc, etc.



You'd consider those major for a city the size of London? The South Bank doesn't count for a kick off. That's like saying Hyde Park is a pedestrianised zone. The _whole_ of Cardiff city centre is pedestrianised.


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

Fair enough, I can see what you mean about in time they might get ignored but I just live in hope they don't.


----------



## gouldina (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> We aren't talking about pedestrianised sections here but it'd be helpful if you could suggest what they could actually do without causing major disruption to all forms of traffic rather than ask a pretty pointless question.



You think that pointing out how old London's roads are is constructive? There are lots of old cities in the world. The point about the lack of pedestrianised sections is that the same thing applies for bikes but more so. We're an afterthought in London and painting parts of some existing roads blue doesn't help that much I wouldn't say. What about some dedicated cycle/pedestrian areas like in Holland for example? Why the hell not? Amsterdam is also an old city with old roads.
Also, why are you so scared of disruption? When they widen motorways etc around London there's plenty of disruption for the ultimate benefit of cars. Why not for cyclists?


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

lol where did I say I was "scared" of disruption? I'm just trying to look at it from the angle of *all* road users, whether they been in cars, on a bike or on a bus.


----------



## gouldina (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> lol where did I say I was "scared" of disruption? I'm just trying to look at it from the angle of *all* road users, whether they been in cars, on a bike or on a bus.



Well you did ask only for solutions that don't involve major disruption. The only type of solution that will buy you is something like painting bits of road blue. I'm suggesting that something a bit more radical (and therefore disruptive for a time) might be a good idea.


----------



## BentMikey (29 Apr 2010)

What about the pedestrian road users? With pedestrianisation, many people forget about how pedestrian journeys are much better and nicer, and the traffic volume in people numbers goes through the roof. Looked at in that light, the far fewer motorvehicle journeys inconvenienced doesn't count for very much at all.


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

> I'm suggesting that something a bit more radical (and therefore disruptive for a time) might be a good idea.



I think it'd be a good idea too but it seems the decision makers don't have the balls to do it, personally I love mixing with cars, it teaches you a lot about road safety but then I appreciate some novice cyclists wouldn't be keen on the idea.


----------



## Origamist (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> Why do you think they are not it? I feel relatively safe on London's roads without the blue paint (I've also cycled over some sections of it and felt a lot of drivers took more notice because of it's the colour. It's not perfect but I haven't seen many valid reasons why it's so bad, just people criticising it ad hoc.



I think the levels of disappointment are based on how the infrastructure was marketed. If you call something a "Cycle Superhighway" peoples' expectations of what will be provided are going to be higher. Of course, some of us were cynical from the beginning and expected pretty much what we're seeing on the trial sections. 

As it is currently stands the CS is an improvement over most existing cycle lanes in London (but that is hardly a ringing endorsement when you consider how poor parts of the LCN are) but whether it will actually make cycling safer or will encourage cycling is another matter. I can't help but feel it is a wasted opportunity. 

I think of the blue lane as little more than a route marker. I don't cycle in the blue river all the time as it's not always advisable given the traffic conditions.


----------



## HJ (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> We aren't talking about pedestrianised sections here but it'd be helpful if you could suggest what they could actually do without causing major disruption to all forms of traffic rather than ask a pretty pointless question.



Odd how they managed to do it in New York, only thing that is different about London is that it is so backward


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

Backwards is the last word I'd use to describe London.


----------



## gaz (29 Apr 2010)

One junction to look forward too is where clapham common south side meets the pavement (yes a road name!) As at present a bus lane merges straight into a car lane and everyone thinks they have right of way! some serious safety issues need to be thought about here.


----------



## chap (29 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> Backwards is the last word I'd use to describe London.




Hmm, parts of it are. I love London, I really do...but it's no Edinburgh. Then again, can we really say that it is 'miles better'  , after all our main street (even the mile) ain't car free 


HJ, just in case you never got the reference: the _'Dear Green Place'_ has more in common with the Big Apple than crime.


----------



## lit (29 Apr 2010)

Never been to Edinburgh, what's it like to cycle?


----------



## chap (30 Apr 2010)

lit said:


> Never been to Edinburgh, what's it like to cycle?



Very good in parts, former railway line is now pedestrian/cyclist path. Wouldn't cycle across many of the main A-roads, although the town centre (bar cobbles and tram lines) is nice.

Then there is the stunning scenery: the magnificent landscape, the glorious castle, our inimitable Forth Rail Bridge, and the eyesores that haunt former car-parks as identikit 'luxury apartments'... 

Fortunately, the latter will fall apart (and the will be architects arrested due to crime against aesthetics, and harmony) within 5 years since they are ephemeral, poor quality, and overpriced tat.


----------



## gaz (4 May 2010)

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/test-sections-of-cycling-superhighways-fail-to-impress-25973
featured on bike radar this time, i'm not sure if the LCC has seen my video but i will be sending it to them.


----------



## psmiffy (4 May 2010)

gaz said:


> http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/test-sections-of-cycling-superhighways-fail-to-impress-25973
> featured on bike radar this time, i'm not sure if the LCC has seen my video but i will be sending it to them.



I am not a Londoner so it is really non of my business but from what I can see it is a start - nowhere near perfect - but it should not be dismissed out of hand - unless the people that produce these things get feedback just as gaz (I hope you have sent it to TfL as well) is doing there will be no impetus to improve the design 

As a matter of interest is the blue strip with two red lines down the inside the finished article? warning road signs?


----------



## gaz (4 May 2010)

psmiffy said:


> As a matter of interest is the blue strip with two red lines down the inside the finished article? warning road signs?



no news on what the finished article will look like yet.


----------



## gaz (7 May 2010)

More work started today, north bound on clapham common south side and Balham high road.


----------



## Origamist (7 May 2010)

And Oval southbound. I'd be surprised if they could make the 3 junctions before the tube station worse, but I'd not bet against it...


----------



## gaz (10 May 2010)

A lot more paint layed down on the weekend. A lot from colliers wood to tooting


----------



## gaz (11 May 2010)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-nO_P35zp0
- still processing at time of posting.


----------



## Origamist (11 May 2010)

The 1.5m strip that wobbles into 2m (in parts) through Tooting does not address the 15 or so side roads on the Tooting Bec to Broadway section - these present a real problem to cyclists as it's right/left hooks a go go. 

The blue paint at major junctions (far left) puts cyclists in a poor position. More positvely, I have noticed some drivers observing the CS markings and giving cyclists room - however, it's very hit and miss (pun intended).


----------



## Origamist (12 May 2010)

A couple of guys were monitoring traffic at the junction with Kennington Park Road and Kennington Park Place yesterday - I saw chaps with a clip boards scribble furiously when 4 cyclists jumped the red at this problem junction on the way to Oval. I'm pretty sure it is Superhighway related research...


----------



## gaz (13 May 2010)

Launch date is set at 19th of July
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/artic...hways-launched-on-19-july-26145#post_comments


----------



## Origamist (14 May 2010)

They've accelerated the work on the blue magic carpet - but have messed up Balham High St Northbound - the blue lane goes into the parking bays meaning you have to negotiate back into the moving traffic lane! This Jarmanesque intervention makes the job of cyclists more difficult and less safe. I'll continue to take the centre of the lane along this stretch, but will now have to deal with more aggro...

Without the paint, but you can see the cars parked in the bay that is now the CS!
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...oid=2Kpi8lZdNexfr48V_b8t0w&cbp=12,197.97,,0,5


----------



## Origamist (14 May 2010)

Painting the town blue: Boris Johnson hails London 'cycle superhighways'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/13/boris-johnson-blue-cycle-superhighways


----------



## gaz (14 May 2010)

Have you noticed the full lane that has ben painted outside Argos? The lane is used by cars turning left. Not great!


----------



## Origamist (14 May 2010)

Yeah, I saw it last night. I'm not sure what they are doing with the loading bays outside Argos as these are often in use in the rush hour. If they suspend them, there will have to be enforcement otherwise it renders the full lane useless (I'll take a look at the loading restrictions tonight).


----------



## Origamist (14 May 2010)

Here's the email address if you have suggestions/complaints: cyclesuperhighways@tfl.gov.uk


----------



## gaz (14 May 2010)

Cheers for the e-mail. Will send them some feedback


----------



## thomas (14 May 2010)

gaz said:


> Cheers for the e-mail. Will send them some feedback




Gaz you little media bunny...you're in the ctc newsletter


----------



## Downward (14 May 2010)

And in the Bike Blog in the Guardian !


----------



## Domestique (14 May 2010)

Downward said:


> And in the Bike Blog in the Guardian !



Sorry to be so lazy, but is there a link for that?


----------



## psmiffy (14 May 2010)

thomas said:


> Gaz you little media bunny...you're in the ctc newsletter



More exposure for the Gaz video - becoming the authority on the blue paint - but it struck me that it was a bit lazy of the CTC - you would think that with their campaign hat on that they would have a bit more to say - and possibly influence the final form of these lanes


----------



## Origamist (14 May 2010)

Domestique said:


> Sorry to be so lazy, but is there a link for that?



https://www.cyclechat.net/


----------



## gaz (14 May 2010)

haha i try my best! all this exposure is good for the cause!


----------



## gaz (14 May 2010)

User1314 said:


> Gaz - what do you look like?
> 
> You don't have a red light on the back of your helmet do you? Saw a cyclist today with a flashing red light and a camera pointing forwards on the same helmet.
> 
> Oval just before 8am.



Youngish, wearing sunglasses most of the time, silver helmet with camera attached to the top, red constant light on the front of the camera. Bike is red with white bar tape and white walled tyres, airzound under my left hood on the bars.
I turn off that road at stockwell to go towards vauxhall, so wouldn't have been me at the oval.
Say hello if you see me.


My video has got 2,000 views today


----------



## Bollo (14 May 2010)

gaz said:


> .....My video has got 2,000 views today



Maggers is going to get jealous!


----------



## gaz (14 May 2010)

Bollo said:


> Maggers is going to get jealous!



Make that a little over 3,000 now.


----------



## Origamist (16 May 2010)

_You & Yours_ Chapter 6 Cycle Superhighways:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s8jx8#p007vymn


----------



## gaz (16 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> _You & Yours_ Chapter 6 Cycle Superhighways:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s8jx8#p007vymn



Wroth a listen, it seems that more and more people are trying it out from the media and luckily their opinion seems to be similar to the rest of us.

With regards to the width of the lanes, plenty of space for one cyclist, but not enough space to overtake someone if your filtering in traffic.


----------



## EC2boy (18 May 2010)

Is it me, or are they widening the bus lanes along the Stockwell - Oval stretch? It looks like the lanes are about a foot wider than they were last week. 

Also, I was in too much of a rush this morning but the dunce contractors are putting temporary road work signs actually in the middle of the existing bike lane. Cue, lots of new cyclists stopping in the middle of the lane and motorbikes/other bikes bumping into the back of them. Completely insane that the contractors don't even know how to work around a piece of new cycle infrastructure.


----------



## Origamist (18 May 2010)

*Cycle Superhighways – Waste of Paint or Copenhagenization?*

Podcast:

http://thebikeshow.net/cycle-superhighways-waste-of-paint-or-copenhagenization/


----------



## gaz (18 May 2010)

hahaha a small reference to my videos in there.. good enough for me. Cheers for the post!


----------



## Norm (19 May 2010)

The Guardian's view of the super highways. Made me laugh as the first few metres are unavailable because there's a car parked there.


----------



## Origamist (19 May 2010)

EC2boy said:


> Is it me, or are they widening the bus lanes along the Stockwell - Oval stretch? It looks like the lanes are about a foot wider than they were last week.



Yes, I presume they're doing this in order to make the bus lane wide enough to get a 1.5m strip of blue on the left. The recommended min width is 4.5m, however, I suspect TFL will go down as low as 4m.




EC2boy said:


> Also, I was in too much of a rush this morning but the dunce contractors are putting temporary road work signs actually in the middle of the existing bike lane. Cue, lots of new cyclists stopping in the middle of the lane and motorbikes/other bikes bumping into the back of them. Completely insane that the contractors don't even know how to work around a piece of new cycle infrastructure.



Little thought seems to have gone into the implementation phase of the CSs as the current conditions are problematic for cyclists.


----------



## Wheeledweenie (19 May 2010)

Anyone chipped in to say the proposed west London route's pants? Coz it is. 

I cycled it last year with a friend who'd been asked to check it out by the mayor's office. It's completely ridiculous. It's from Kensington to Ealing/Perivale along the A40 cycle track. Parts of it are so narrow you can barely get one bike along it, all of it's shared with pedestrians and it doesn't go through anywhere useful. If you want one end or the other then maybe, but even then it makes no sense. Large parts of it are the local residents' only access to their local bus stop so it's crammed with pedestrians and, frankly, if it was my local pavement I'd be royally p*ssed off about it.


----------



## gaz (19 May 2010)

I haven't had the chance to go along route 3. But I will be filming the whole route once it is finished.


----------



## Wheeledweenie (19 May 2010)

gaz said:


> I haven't had the chance to go along route 3. But I will be filming the whole route once it is finished.



I'm hoping it's improved since the original proposals but I doubt it. It's near my work and ends near my house so let me know if you want company!


----------



## gaz (19 May 2010)

Some stuff I overlooked at the LCC
http://lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1821 - My video on the junction design.

http://lcc.org.uk/index.asp?Pageid=1819 - TFL's response to the critiscium they have been receiving.. Which is:



TFL][I]Three junctions on the Merton to the City route have had blue surfacing in place since early March as part of a trial to test the reaction of road users said:


> _TfL is introducing a range of measures to improve safety along the routes._
> _These include the introduction of cycle lanes, more Advanced Stop Lines, realignment of some lanes and junctions and re-designing crossings._
> _There is great demand for space on London’s road network and in many areas the roads are very narrow, so it’s not possible to provide separated lanes for cyclists._
> _TfL is, however, introducing new segregated cycle lanes at some locations, for example at the Stockwell Gyratory._
> _We’re also increasing the amount of cycle parking along the routes, providing cycle training for those wanting to build their skills and confidence, and providing bike maintenance sessions to support the increased number of cyclists that we anticipate using both routes._


[/I]


----------



## Molecule Man (19 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> *Cycle Superhighways – Waste of Paint or Copenhagenization?*
> 
> Podcast:
> 
> http://thebikeshow.net/cycle-superhighways-waste-of-paint-or-copenhagenization/



I heard that, lots of criticism from Charlie Lloyd of the London Cycling Campaign and others. Did I hear this bit right? I'm sure the presenter mentions at one one point that Transport for London got the police to stop traffic when they were filming one of their promotional videos for the scheme?! Hence it looks lovely and quiet with hardly any traffic to bother the cyclists.


----------



## Origamist (19 May 2010)

Molecule Man said:


> Did I hear this bit right? I'm sure the presenter mentions at one one point that Transport for London got the police to stop traffic when they were filming one of their promotional videos for the scheme?! Hence it looks lovely and quiet with hardly any traffic to bother the cyclists.




Yes, you heard right - read more about the stage-management here: 

https://www.cyclechat.net/


----------



## Tinuts (19 May 2010)

Cycle Super Highways - total nonsense. This is yet another attempt to *appear* cycle friendly without *actually* doing anything substantive to counter the most cycle un-friendly aspect of cycling in London: motorists. it's so easy just to paint a few more lines on the road and pretend that it makes cycling safer. It's very simple: install the usual cycle lanes and then legislate a minimum overtaking distance - and enforce it. Problem solved.


----------



## gaz (20 May 2010)

An article from the Evening standard - http://lydall.standard.co.uk/2010/0...cycle-superhighways-are-the-road-to-hell.html

And treehugger - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/05/cycle-superhighways-or-bluewashed-bike-paths.php


----------



## Origamist (21 May 2010)

The lanes are advisory at present, but TFL will be reviewing this. Interestingly, there is going to be some initial reseach posted on the CS pages in the next few weeks about the effect of the blue lanes through junctions. 

On another matter, the CS lanes are making it considerably harder to filter on the offside as the central gap between the traffic lanes has diminished.


----------



## gaz (21 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> On another matter, the CS lanes are making it considerably harder to filter on the offside as the central gap between the traffic lanes has diminished.



Yes, I'm really not feeling comfortable filtering on the left!


----------



## Jezston (21 May 2010)

So is there ANYONE who thinks that the cycle superhighways are a good idea apart from the people earning money from it?


----------



## Origamist (21 May 2010)

Jezston said:


> So is there ANYONE who thinks that the cycle superhighways are a good idea apart from the people earning money from it?



I think we need to make a distinction between the blue lanes that are being deployed (which may improve after testing/consultation) and the additional measures that are wrapped up with the CSs -these are far more beneficial for cyclists, for example: re-surfacing, more bike stands, more cycle training etc


----------



## Origamist (25 May 2010)

Short vid from Balham to Tooting Bec, shot on my new cam:


View: http://vimeo.com/12031490


----------



## gaz (25 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> Short vid from Balham to Tooting Bec, shot on my new cam:
> 
> 
> View: http://vimeo.com/12031490




I like, Did you mount that with extra bar tape? really smooth


----------



## EC2boy (26 May 2010)

I noticed the blue line has come nearer my route overnight. There's now an entire 20metre long ASL equivalent heading south on Clapham Road at Caldwell Street. It takes up the entire left hand lane. What the CSH seems to me is to be creating a sort of ambiguous space. They've widened the bus lanes by about a foot (although I noticed last night they've done the same all the way along Albert Embankment at Vauxhall as well now) and then removed the 'Bus Lane' signs. Where the bus lane ends at Clapham Road, they've removed the white line separating the lanes but filled the whole left hand lane with blue paint. It's really weird. If I were a motorist, I'd look at that and probably not be sure what do with it. If another car was waiting there, I imagine I'd probably just wait behind them as there's no line telling me to keep out, just a lot of blue which doesn't mean much to me. All very odd. 

One thing I have noticed which is good, though, is that they're narrowing the hatchings that separate the lanes in the middle of the road so that cars don't push over as much towards the left of the road. That's a good step actually. 

One other bad thing: heading north from Oval towards Elephant I then turn left into Kennington Road. That used to be a bus lane and a second lane going to the left. They've now narrowed it to what feels like one a bit lanes. So, as you turn left, cars and lorries are overtaking you and then slow down right in front of you or even pull right across you to take the corner. So, at the moment (it's not finished yet), they've turned that left turn into something that feels positively more dangerous than it was.


----------



## Origamist (26 May 2010)

gaz said:


> I like, Did you mount that with extra bar tape? really smooth



Yes, that's with the handlebar mount and bar tape. It's smoother than I thought, but I was running 28mm tyres and the road was not too bumpy. It did drop a few frames, but I blame the class 2 card which is not high enough spec. The light wasn't too great either as it was 8pm. 

Shot at 720 HD/30fps. The lens angle is 170 so it's wider than yours and there's less visual detail than the Contour as a consequence. 

The waterproof case is excellent and I was pleasantly surprised by the sound quality. 

What speed was the black Audi doing?


----------



## Origamist (26 May 2010)

*Mayoral questions: *

*20mph Speed Limits*

Question No: 1448 / 2010

Valerie Shawcross

Concerned cyclists in Lambeth have asked me to put the following further
question to you: In your response to Question No: 1191 / 2010 you state that TfL is investigating the potential of 20mph speed limits at locations on the cycle superhighways. Implementation would be dependant on the 'potential benefits that may be derived.' The "potential benefits" are well documented - that is reduction in road deaths and injuries - so why not consider 20mph on the whole CSH?

Answer from the Mayor

A significant proportion of the Cycle Superhighways will be on TfL's road
network, which performs a strategic role as it carries around a third of the
traffic in London but represents only 5% of the total number of roads. A
blanket 20mph speed limit would impact on the ability of traffic to move
around London.

TfL will continue to consider where a 20mph speed limit may be beneficial at specific locations on the Cycle Superhighways, and is currently reviewing the potential for 20mph limits on Southwark Bridge Road in conjunction with the London Borough of Southwark.

*


*Left turning vehicles to Brixton on cycle superhighway*

Question No: 1449 / 2010

Valerie Shawcross

Cyclists going from the centre of London to Clapham on the CSH through the Oval are in danger from speeding left turning vehicles going to Brixton. Are TfL going to carry out works to either remove this left turn for general motor traffic, or at the very least tighten up the geometry to reduce the speed of left turning traffic? If not, why not

Answer from the Mayor

This junction, on Cycle Superhighway route 7, is being modified to remove
the left turn slip road onto Brixton Road for general traffic. Left turning
traffic will instead be brought to a signalised stop line. The free flowing
left turn bus lane will be retained. This modification improves the geometry of the junction, and reduces conflict between cyclists continuing to Clapham and faster moving traffic turning left towards Brixton.

*

*Railings on the cycle superhighway*

Question No: 1450 / 2010

Valerie Shawcross

Railings are notorious for giving drivers the impression that they can speed
on a highway, in the absence of any commitment by the Mayor to an enforced 20 mph to reduce the likelihood of injuries to cyclists on the cycle superhighway, will all the railings in the area be removed to at the very least encourage drivers to slow down?

Answer from the Mayor

Ineffective and unnecessary guard railing is already being removed at a
number of locations along the Cycle Superhighways pilot routes. This
includes: Marshalsea Road, Newington Butts, Kennington Oval, and Tooting Broadway on route 7, and Watney Street, Sorrell Lane, Freemasons Road and Forty Acre Lane on route 3. TfL will retain pedestrian guard railing on the Transport for London Road Network only where it provides a clear safety benefit.


----------



## Lurker (26 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> Short vid from Balham to Tooting Bec, shot on my new cam:
> 
> 
> View: http://vimeo.com/12031490




My reading of this footage (excellent video quality BTW!) is that the blue strip is largely an irrelevance to fast cyclists such as yourself - and is likely to encourage unsafe cycling (positioning close to junction mouths) and invite aggression from ignorant motorists.


----------



## Origamist (27 May 2010)

Lurker said:


> My reading of this footage (excellent video quality BTW!) is that the blue strip is largely an irrelevance to fast cyclists such as yourself - and is likely to encourage unsafe cycling (positioning close to junction mouths) and invite aggression from ignorant motorists.



That's one of my fears too. 

I intend to film the whole stretch with an overlaid critique of smurf alley and the hazards on various parts of the CS7 route. I'll then send this worthy but dull video to TFL for their comments.


----------



## StuartG (27 May 2010)

Jezston said:


> So is there ANYONE who thinks that the cycle superhighways are a good idea apart from the people earning money from it?


Me!

I accept the criticisms. But then I am a gradualist and positive criticism of the lanes is the lever for the next step. Copenhagen wasn't built in a day - it has taken 40 years of slow progress to create today's cycling nirvana - and I don't think London could be any faster. Just look on CS7 as day one in a long haul for cyclists to get a fair share of the street.

Fair shares also means we have to generate volume. Blue lines do show a route non-cyclists did not know existed, it is a temptation to try and with all the other Boris hype it is silly to put people off.

The problem is when they realise how inadequate they are - will they hang in and demand more rather than be put off?

And while us regulars rightly decry much of the hype to be Boris' ego politics - the answers to the questions above do show tiny but welcome improvements to junctions on the route that may otherwise never have happened.

If they do restrict the 'hook left' at the Oval to buses/taxis/bikes - that will almost be a victory in itself!


----------



## Origamist (27 May 2010)

StuartG said:


> And while us regulars rightly decry much of the hype to be Boris' ego politics - the answers to the questions above do show tiny but welcome improvements to junctions on the route that may otherwise never have happened.
> 
> If they do restrict the 'hook left' at the Oval to buses/taxis/bikes - that will almost be a victory in itself!



This is the plan for Oval:




> This junction, on Cycle Superhighway route 7, is being modified to remove the left turn slip road onto Brixton Road for general traffic. Left turning traffic
> will instead be brought to a signalised stop line. The free flowing left turn
> bus lane will be retained. This modification improves the geometry of the
> junction, and reduces conflict between cyclists continuing to Clapham and faster
> moving traffic turning left towards Brixton.


----------



## gaz (27 May 2010)

Origamist said:


> That's one of my fears too.
> 
> I intend to film the whole stretch with an overlaid critique of smurf alley and the hazards on various parts of the CS7 route. I'll then send this worthy but dull video to TFL for their comments.



I will be doing something similar. although i expect they have already seen my videos on some of the junctions. If you can get your stuff posted on various blogs, news articles and by the CTC and LCC then it gets a lot of views!


----------



## jonesy (27 May 2010)

StuartG said:


> Me!
> 
> I accept the criticisms. But then I am a gradualist and positive criticism of the lanes is the lever for the next step. Copenhagen wasn't built in a day - it has taken 40 years of slow progress to create today's cycling nirvana - and I don't think London could be any faster. Just look on CS7 as day one in a long haul for cyclists to get a fair share of the street.
> 
> ...




I generally agree. The big advance the CSH represent is the recognition that cycle routes need to be direct and that means following the main roads, not taking hard to follow detours round side streets and onto narrow gravelly canal paths etc. Once that principle is established then providing continuity and priority through junctions is more likely to follow.


----------



## Origamist (28 May 2010)

jonesy said:


> I generally agree. *The big advance the CSH represent is the recognition that cycle routes need to be direct and that means following the main roads, not taking hard to follow detours round side streets and onto narrow gravelly canal paths etc*. Once that principle is established then providing continuity and priority through junctions is more likely to follow.



Indeed - TFL rubber-stamping these arterial routes for commuters is a step forward. That said, the A-roads that many of the CSs are incorporating are already very popular with cyclists and TFL is doing little more than belatedly piggybacking on their success. I'm sure some of the interventions will improve after feedback - it's the current transitional/testing period that concerns me.


----------



## BentMikey (28 May 2010)

Barclays cycle highways? As in a "barclays bank"? Aaaahaahaahaaahaa, that'd be about right.


----------



## gaz (28 May 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Barclays cycle highways? As in a "barclays bank"? Aaaahaahaahaaahaa, that'd be about right.



This would explain the blue. A plan all along?


----------



## Titan yer tummy (31 May 2010)

Can anyone send me a link to the Penge route. All the links I find seem to lead nowhere nowadays. Not the straight line diagram - though I haven't found one of those either - but the actual road by road route.

Many thanks!


----------



## Origamist (31 May 2010)

Titan yer tummy said:


> Can anyone send me a link to the Penge route. All the links I find seem to lead nowhere nowadays. Not the straight line diagram - though I haven't found one of those either - but the actual road by road route.
> 
> Many thanks!



I don't think the details have been released yet. CS6 is not scheduled to open until 2015.


----------



## clarion (31 May 2010)

You're not missing much.


----------



## StuartG (31 May 2010)

Titan yer tummy said:


> Can anyone send me a link to the Penge route.


The outline follows the 176 bus route from the Kirkdale (wobbly) roundabout in Sydenham to the Elephant where it joins CS7. The Penge to Sydenham sector isn't agreed by anyone AFAIK. Venner Road is touted by Lewisham but I would prefer Lawrie Park Road/CP Park Road.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2010)

*Revealed: new look for Elephant & Castle southern junction*

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4584


----------



## clarion (3 Jun 2010)

OK. I'm a regular through that junction, and I think that's actually an improvement. I see the introduction of traffic lights as a possible boon, though I hope that drivers don't try to ghettoise me onto those narrow lanes at the lights on the RAB.


----------



## BentMikey (3 Jun 2010)

Are you the real Clarion?


----------



## clarion (3 Jun 2010)

Yes, but that's not _actually_ CS7, whih disappears up a fartoonarrow side alley before meandering round the houses before that point.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2010)

clarion said:


> Yes, but that's not _actually_ CS7, whih disappears up a fartoonarrow side alley before meandering round the houses before that point.



But could well be part of CS6 (unless they're using the Churchyard Row route for this too): 

From:Penge To:City *Via: Elephant & Castle*


----------



## clarion (3 Jun 2010)

That'd be good.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2010)

*Report by the Director of Technical Services on the latest position regarding the Mayor of London’s Cycle Superhighways initiative.*

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/modern...8/$PaperNo10384CycleSuperHighways.docA.ps.pdf


( Trial areas of blue surfacing on the A24 road corridor at the junction of
Tooting High Street/Longley Road/Blackshaw Road, SW17
(Graveney) and at the junction of Upper Tooting Road/Balham High
Road/Trinity Road//Tooting Bec Road, SW17 (Nightingale and
Bedford) were laid in February 2010. A recent visual inspection of the
blue surfacing indicated that the colour has faded noticeably and is less
intrusive than immediately after laying. Where the new surfacing has been more heavily trafficked it is also evident that the colour contrast with the main carriageway is even less conspicuous. As the ‘new’ colour becomes familiar to regular road users it is likely that any impact and benefit to cyclists may quickly diminish. ​

(c) The Department for Transport has approved the use of ‘TRIXI’ mirrors 
at various locations along Route 7;​

(d) The launch of Route 7 is planned for 19th July 2010. The key 
publicity message will be: ‘Fast, direct, easy’. A possible launch event 
is proposed, which will take place on green space adjacent to the route, 
possibly Clapham Common. The Mayor of London will attend and it 
is intended to invite local dignitaries and local Members TfL will be 
concentrating their publicity for Route 7 within two ‘hubs’: one in 
Wandsworth Town Centre; and the other in the Balham/Tooting/St 
George’s Hospital area. Publicity will comprise posters on bus shelters 
and lamp columns. CSH branded goods will also be produced and 
distributed following the launch. A ‘face-to-face’ promotion is also 
planned in the Balham area.​



(e) Following the launch in July 2010, led cycle rides for commuters along 
sections of the route will take place inbound, in the morning peak 
period. Additionally, ‘feeder’ led rides will be organised from 
Wandsworth Town Centre to Clapham Common, via Clapham 
Junction on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays for eight weeks after the launch;​

Conclusion. ​
Following concerns expressed by the Council with the overall Route 7 project timescale and the consequent insufficient and inadequate Borough consultation period, TfL have extended the turnaround period for comments. In addition, the overall programme for Route 8 should allow sufficient time to respond comprehensively to the proposals, as well as to enter into the necessary legal agreement(s) with TfL.​


----------



## gaz (3 Jun 2010)

Good update there, i like seeing that they have taken note of the faded surface.

On launch day, i might take slightly longer to see if i can get to talk to boris or anyone from the TFL about it. Might be worth it.


----------



## HJ (3 Jun 2010)

This is worth a read http://rdrf.org.uk/2010/06/boris-and-the-ass-question-part-3-wheres-the-money/


----------



## Origamist (4 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> *Revealed: new look for Elephant & Castle southern junction*
> 
> http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4584



TFL email-shot:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Elephant-and-castle-southern-roundabout.pdf

No mention of CSs...


----------



## gaz (4 Jun 2010)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69FXiDHDRrE

Bus lanes widened means you can get around stopped buses without changing lanes.


----------



## clarion (5 Jun 2010)

Ah yes. Meant to mention that. That is a big improvement.


----------



## Origamist (5 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69FXiDHDRrE
> 
> Bus lanes widened means you can get around stopped buses without changing lanes.




The widening of the lanes along Ken Park Road and Clapham Road is helpful if you need to pass a stationary bus, but the downside is that the wider lane (4m or so) makes it easier for bus drivers to pass cyclists who hug the gutter as they now no longer need to leave the bus lane. 

My real fear is Hackney Carriages though (bus drivers are usually considerate), as taking primary will now be more problematic as taxis will expect you to ride to the far left in order for them to pass. If you adopt a secondary position (approx 1m from the kerb) a cab will not be able to give you sufficient clearance if it chooses not to leave the bus lane...


----------



## gaz (5 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> My real fear is Hackney Carriages though (bus drivers are usually considerate), as taking primary will now be more problematic as taxis will expect you to ride to the far left in order for them to pass. If you adopt a secondary position (approx 1m from the kerb) a cab will not be able to give you sufficient clearance if it chooses not to leave the bus lane...



Already had that problem when i was with a colleague from work who was a lot slower than me. Holding the lane position when going 13mph is not easy!


----------



## Riding in Circles (6 Jun 2010)

Slapping a bit of paint on the road does not a "cycle super highway" make.


----------



## Origamist (7 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> The lanes are advisory at present, but TFL will be reviewing this. Interestingly, there is going to be some initial reseach posted on the CS pages in the next few weeks about the effect of the blue lanes through junctions.



For the first time, broken white lines have now been put on a few of the CS lanes between Colliers Wood and Balham.


----------



## gaz (8 Jun 2010)

I might have the oppertunity to meet with the person that heads up the cycle superhighways program, and possibly ride with them on a section of the route. not 100% confirmed yet.


----------



## Origamist (8 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> I might have the oppertunity to meet with the person that heads up the cycle superhighways program, and possibly ride with them on a section of the route. not 100% confirmed yet.



Good luck with that. I'd be interested to join you.


----------



## gaz (8 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> Good luck with that. I'd be interested to join you.


I'll see what i can do.


----------



## clarion (8 Jun 2010)

Drop me a line, too, please. I'd be interested. In fact, the person concerned could have a ride as stoker on my tandem


----------



## Jezston (8 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> For the first time, broken white lines have now been put on a few of the CS lanes between Colliers Wood and Balham.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't broken white lines on a cycle lane mean motor vehicles can enter them? If so, doesn't that completely undermine the whole point of the cycle superhighways if they have got cars in them?


----------



## clarion (8 Jun 2010)

Yes it does.

And yes it does.


----------



## gaz (8 Jun 2010)

Jezston said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't broken white lines on a cycle lane mean motor vehicles can enter them? If so, doesn't that completely undermine the whole point of the cycle superhighways if they have got cars in them?



Before the instillation of the broken White lines, there was nothing, which basically means there is no cycle lane.
This is a step in the right direction. But of course we would all like to see more solid lined cycle lanes


----------



## Origamist (8 Jun 2010)

Jezston said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't broken white lines on a cycle lane mean motor vehicles can enter them? If so, doesn't that completely undermine the whole point of the cycle superhighways if they have got cars in them?



It means motorists should not enter the lane unless it is clear of cycles. This gets routinely flouted by drivers. That said, I imagine if they did hit a cyclist who was using the CS, they would have to justify why they encroached and did not hang back...

Sadly, the Mayor made it clear that the CS would not take road space away from motor vehicles - the CS's lanes were always about integration and increasing visual awareness of cyclists on arterial routes.

I received my first 2 beeps and gesture to use the CS lane today on the approach to Balham...


----------



## gaz (8 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> I received my first 2 beeps and gesture to use the CS lane today on the approach to Balham...



on the two lane section? 
That's a real pain. The cs zig zags where the lane widdens, I prefer to hold the lane to keep my position in traffic. But it's not always possible. Due to the previous road works, traffic seems to be lighter.


----------



## Origamist (8 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> on the two lane section?
> That's a real pain. The cs zig zags where the lane widdens, I prefer to hold the lane to keep my position in traffic. But it's not always possible. Due to the previous road works, traffic seems to be lighter.



Yes, the two lane stretch. I was in the centre of the nearside lane, but the blue lane jumps into the loading bays keeping cyclists to the extreme left. If you choose to follow the blue carpet and then want to rejoin the moving traffic lane you either they have to squeeze in with traffic or stop and give way! You're also more likely to be ignored and hooked by traffic turning into Balham Park Road... The lane should be twice as thick.


----------



## clarion (8 Jun 2010)

That bit is absurd, dangerous, and gives the lie to the 'continuous' claim.


----------



## Origamist (15 Jun 2010)

They've been laying down the "CS7" route identifiers in south London. However, they've gone a bit crazy in some sections as there appears to be 3 stencils in the space of 5 meters in one stretch...

More positively, some of the resurfacing is excellent. Hopefully this will continue and not all be dug up in the next few months.


----------



## gaz (15 Jun 2010)

Southbound in balham there is a route inditifer in the middle of the lane for cars.


----------



## Origamist (15 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> Southbound in balham there is a route inditifer in the middle of the lane for cars.



Yep, they're the bigger blue splodges in the centre of the lane with white CS6 and bike logo markings. Surely it's time you filmed them!


----------



## Lurker (15 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> Southbound in balham there is a route inditifer in the middle of the lane for cars.



Which lane's this? 

Don't you mean the lane for general traffic? (cars, vans, lorries, buses, bicycles, motorbikes....).


----------



## gaz (15 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> Yep, they're the bigger blue splodges in the centre of the lane with white CS6 and bike logo markings. Surely it's time you filmed them!



I had the day off yesterday. So only saw them this morning.



Lurker said:


> Which lane's this?
> 
> Don't you mean the lane for general traffic? (cars, vans, lorries, buses, bicycles, motorbikes....).



yes, the general lane


----------



## Origamist (16 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> I had the day off yesterday. So only saw them this morning.



I actually like the giant blue/white logos as they're in the centre of the lane and signify to drivers that cyclists can and should take the lane when appropriate. I'd actually like to see more of them (every 10m) and less of the blue lanes (particularly on the Tooting - Balham stretch). 

I'll upload some film tonight.


----------



## gaz (16 Jun 2010)

I agree. A good addition


----------



## Origamist (16 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> I actually like the giant blue/white logos as they're in the centre of the lane and signify to drivers that cyclists can and should take the lane when appropriate. I'd actually like to see more of them (every 10m) and less of the blue lanes (particularly on the Tooting - Balham stretch).
> 
> I'll upload some film tonight.



Here's the film of the new route markings. I've also included a stupid overtake by a bus driver on the approach to the Elephant and Castle bypass:


View: http://vimeo.com/12621332


----------



## clarion (16 Jun 2010)

The ones in the general part of the lane are only where there is no magic blue paint at the side. The multiple logos are where you go past busier junctions, for the benefit of drivers joining or leaving the main road, reminding them of the CSH.


----------



## clarion (16 Jun 2010)

btw, Origamist, might I be allowed to point plod in the direction of your footage of the Kennington incident aftermath? I think it shows the VRN as LB06LHP, which is what I had. The Officer took it down as LB06LHB.


----------



## gaz (16 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> Here's the film of the new route markings. I've also included a stupid overtake by a bus driver on the approach to the Elephant and Castle bypass:
> 
> 
> View: http://vimeo.com/12621332




I got some footage up yesterday of a section earlier in balham. Link below for anyone that is intrested.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-vDwk_fUE


That bus pass was EXTREAMLY close! are you reporting that to the bus company?


----------



## Origamist (16 Jun 2010)

clarion said:


> *The ones in the general part of the lane are only where there is no magic blue paint at the side.* The multiple logos are where you go past busier junctions, for the benefit of drivers joining or leaving the main road, reminding them of the CSH.



Yes, they're more akin to US style sharrows and Danish cycle logos, but there is overlap with the lanes at certain points.



clarion said:


> btw, Origamist, might I be allowed to point plod in the direction of your footage of the Kennington incident aftermath? I think it shows the VRN as LB06LHP, which is what I had. The Officer took it down as LB06LHB.



Certainly, yours is the only video I've retained on Vimeo. The others get deleted after a week.

You're correct with the VRN:









gaz said:


> I got some footage up yesterday of a section earlier in balham. Link below for anyone that is intrested.
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-vDwk_fUE
> 
> ...




Probably. The woman didn't seem too bothered, but I didn't check she was OK - which I should have done. It was stupidly close IMO.

My film follows on from yours, nice work!


----------



## Origamist (21 Jun 2010)

I've been invited to the Cycle Superhighways Launch on the 19 July, betwen 7-10am on Clapham Common. Not sure what it will entail, but I'm going to attend...


----------



## gaz (21 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> I've been invited to the Cycle Superhighways Launch on the 19 July, betwen 7-10am on Clapham Common. Not sure what it will entail, but I'm going to attend...


I shall also be popping along to that. I heard from a little birdie that some big wigs will be there.


----------



## BentMikey (21 Jun 2010)

Well, make sure you tell them their design skills are like those of an orangutan c@nt.


----------



## gaz (21 Jun 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Well, make sure you tell them their design skills are like those of an orangutan c@nt.


Not sure i will use those words.


----------



## clarion (21 Jun 2010)

But it conveys the message so well...


----------



## Origamist (22 Jun 2010)

Work has started at Stockwell - it was very congested this morning and I managed to get myself in the wrong lane.

This CS site should be interesting as they are talking about a segregated facility:
 


> The Cycle Superhighways proposal at *Stockwell* Gyratory involves the two lanes heading northbound for the A3 being reduced to one lane for motor traffic, to reduce potential conflict between motorists and cyclists. Cyclists will continue onto a new 1.5m blue lane separated from general traffic on one side by a barrier; a further protected cycle lane is proposed at the junction parallel to *Stockwell* Terrace


----------



## Lurker (22 Jun 2010)

Origamist said:


> Work has started at Stockwell - it was very congested this morning and I managed to get myself in the wrong lane.
> 
> This CS site should be interesting as they are talking about a segregated facility:


"The Cycle Superhighways proposal at Stockwell Gyratory involves the two lanes heading northbound for the A3 being reduced to one lane for motor traffic, to reduce potential conflict between motorists and cyclists. Cyclists will continue onto a new 1.5m blue lane separated from general traffic on one side by a barrier; a further protected cycle lane is proposed at the junction parallel to Stockwell Terrace"

1.5m? It sounds narrow. Does this not assume single-file use? How will that work?


----------



## Origamist (22 Jun 2010)

Well, I don't know if the plans have changed since the mayor's questions, but 1.5m will mean that some cyclists will try to overtake one another even though there's not sufficient space. 

I'm very unsure about this intervention, but I'll wait to see how it operates. If it makes me uncomfortable, I'll stick to the road and no doubt get stick for doing so. 

More positively, Clapham Common South side is now one lane, meaning you can now share the lane with traffic more comfortably. Previously, it was two narrow lanes and I always took primary in the nearside lane.


----------



## clarion (22 Jun 2010)

Ditto ditto and ditto Origamist.

I'm very uneasy about the Stockwell works (which caused tailbacks to Clapham South tube). I saw a large raised section in what was the lane I would normally use. 1.5m width isn't near enough at the point where I see more cyclists than anywhere else.


----------



## gaz (22 Jun 2010)

Hmmm this is interesting, stockwell was always going to be a big issue with this route.
Luckily i'm off for two days and hopefully i miss the worst of the traffic caused by the works.
As Origamist said, if i'm uncomfortable with what they have done, i will be using the road.


----------



## Origamist (24 Jun 2010)

Copenhagen Bicycle Superhighways:

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/06/copenhagen-bicycle-superhighways.html


----------



## clarion (24 Jun 2010)

This morning, as we were squeezing through Stockwell, another rider on an IRO s/s turned to me and said, 'It'll be good if they put in a cycle lane there'.

'Yes.' I replied, 'So long as its wide enough.'

Twenty cyclists passed through the junction A3 northwards on that cycle.


----------



## gaz (24 Jun 2010)

Stockwell is looking interesting. I can't imagine how it will work


----------



## clarion (25 Jun 2010)

I can see a separated lane, which turns fairly sharply at the end towards the main lane. I'm suspecting a Give Way. If it's going to be lights, the entrance is at a crappy angle for going round & up the A3.


----------



## Origamist (28 Jun 2010)

clarion said:


> I can see a separated lane, which turns fairly sharply at the end towards the main lane. I'm suspecting a Give Way. If it's going to be lights, the entrance is at a crappy angle for going round & up the A3.



I was looking at the segregated lane today and you're right with regard to the approach angle. It's also narrow and is not ideally suited to the rush hour when you can get 20+ cyclists waiting at the lights at Stockwell. It looks like it's going to funnel cyclists through in single file (unless they're prepared to cycle too close to one another) at the extreme left.


----------



## clarion (28 Jun 2010)

Yes, the second part of the funnel has been built. We'll be channeled along in a pretty narrow lane towards the turn. The line doesn't look too bad coming on to the A3, but I am worried about capacity.


----------



## dellzeqq (29 Jun 2010)

I think we're going to have to wait and see how it goes, but, you're right, the little lane on the turn out toward Kennington is kind of pathetic


----------



## style over speed (29 Jun 2010)

dellzeqq said:


> I think we're going to have to wait and see how it goes, but, you're right, the little lane on the turn out toward Kennington is kind of pathetic



took some pictures today












thats TOO NARROW and takes the wrong line... and the inner edge of the barrier unbelievably cuts into the "cycle lane".

Anyone know if the traffic lights going to be green waved for 20kph when it opens, every time I cycle from clapham to elephant I seem to get stopped at every set of lights on red .


----------



## gaz (29 Jun 2010)

hmmmm.. i will look at that in person tomorrow.


----------



## Tynan (29 Jun 2010)

not that super or highway then?

and drivers will more than ever expect cycists to stay off the road


----------



## clarion (30 Jun 2010)

That's only the second part of the farcility. The first part is even more worrying.


----------



## gaz (30 Jun 2010)

Went through it today. Interesting would be one way of describing it!
The first part looks like it will be a nightmare.


----------



## style over speed (30 Jun 2010)

clarion said:


> That's only the second part of the farcility. The first part is even more worrying.



got some photos of that now, I thought it was going to be two sided, but its not. Even with light traffic there is lots of lane changing at the last minute (3rd picture) bringing the whole road to a halt.

There is also a very long red phase in the lights with no one going anywhere. This should be for cyclists.


----------



## EC2boy (30 Jun 2010)

Does that mean that going northbound towards Oval, we'll be expected to stick in the middle lane and then swing round to the right? When I take that junction, there are often 20 bikes. Which means we'll all be sitting there completely exposed in the middle of the lane that heads up to Vauxhall doesn't it? Or am I not getting it? 

It looks completely crazy, like it's designed for one cyclist per traffic light rotation and hyper dangerous but with no way of bailing out into the main traffic flow. 

Please tell me I'm just not getting it or have they really made this junction worse, same as they have the turn into Kennington Road further up?


----------



## gaz (30 Jun 2010)

From the looks of it. You head towards vauxhall and swing round. I have a video of it which I will post later. It would mean that the 20+ cyclists which can easily be at the junction will be fighting for position.


----------



## EC2boy (30 Jun 2010)

Personally, I am getting a bit fed up of Boris's useless cycle prattle. London Cycling Campaign doesn't seem to actually do anything and TfL not listening to them in any case (at least as far as the superhighways are concerned as it didn't consult them one jot). I'm beginning to feel like it's time cyclists took a bit more direct action. I'm not sure if I've got the nerve for direct action but I'm just tired of crap decisions being taken by TfL and crap drivers and and and....


----------



## gaz (30 Jun 2010)

I'm very close to getting to cycle the route with the head of the cycle superhighways at tfl. I will of course point out some of the short comings of it to him.


----------



## BentMikey (30 Jun 2010)

Heckle him, on camera innit!


----------



## EC2boy (30 Jun 2010)

It'll be dead interesting to hear what he has to say. 

Apparently, all the London Boroughs sat down with TfL to have a go at them about how they designed the superhighways (no consultation, just bundled in and did it, in complete contrast to the cycle hire). As a result, TfL has promised to mend its ways but hasn't committed to what that might ever mean and the boroughs are now talking about boycotting the launch. It's all low-level petty politics stuff but it makes me kind of cross that everyone's just being terribly polite about something that is pretty sub-standard in implementation terms. 

Anyhow, rant over...


----------



## Tynan (30 Jun 2010)

he'll ride at 10mph, not mind dismounting where necessary, in short he'll make it all look very sensible


----------



## gaz (30 Jun 2010)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4JAbqcpQM

Video of the segregation in use.


----------



## jonesy (30 Jun 2010)

gaz said:


> I'm very close to getting to cycle the route with the head of the cycle superhighways at tfl. I will of course point out some of the short comings of it to him.



Clearly there are shortcomings in implementation, but it would be a shame if that detracts from the underlying principle of the CSH, which I think Boris has got right, namely that cycle routes need to be direct and follow the main routes into the city if cycling is to be time competitive against other modes. We've gone as far as we can with trying to signpost circuitous back street routes and gravelly paths on canal towpaths, and that is never going to attract large numbers of cyclists. 

I recently visited Copenhagen, and one thing that really stood out to me was that cycle routes followed all the main roads into the centre and that was where the vast majority of cyclists could be seen. I did see a few paths across parks etc, but that wasn't where you'd see the cyclists.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4JAbqcpQM
> 
> Video of the segregation in use.




If that is the intended path they expect cyclists to take, it's piss poor infrastructure. However, let's see what it's like when it's finished.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

jonesy said:


> Clearly there are shortcomings in implementation, but it would be a shame if that detracts from the underlying principle of the CSH, which I think Boris has got right, namely that cycle routes need to be direct and follow the main routes into the city if cycling is to be time competitive against other modes. We've gone as far as we can with trying to signpost circuitous back street routes and gravelly paths on canal towpaths, and that is never going to attract large numbers of cyclists.
> 
> I recently visited Copenhagen, and one thing that really stood out to me was that cycle routes followed all the main roads into the centre and that was where the vast majority of cyclists could be seen. I did see a few paths across parks etc, but that wasn't where you'd see the cyclists.



It was the old newt lover that first championed the CSs in conjuction with TFL, not Boris - but to Boris' credit, this was one of Ken's plans that he decided not to kick into the long grass.

As for the CSs - I see it as both a step forward and a wasted opportunity. Hopefully the planners working on the remaining CS routes can learn from the mistakes of the pilot highways.

Copenhagen does appear to be the CS model, but the Danes have the Green Wave, wider lanes, priority green lights, bicycle bridges, bicycle counters, priority through junctions, regular sweeping and maintenance, wider lanes, loads of cycle parking etc. Maybe some of these measures will appear over time in the UK.


----------



## gaz (1 Jul 2010)

I've arranged a talk with tfl for next week about the sh. I will be organising the ride along shortly after.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> I've arranged a talk with tfl for next week about the sh. I will be organising the ride along shortly after.



Make yourself a nice list of pertinent questions, anticipate their counters and keep plugging away.


----------



## Aperitif (1 Jul 2010)

Ask why they put bumpy white paint all over, gaz - informing that this is "CSH 7" or whatever. Surely indicative markings (on the riser of a kerb for example), would do the trick. Paint is slippery when wet. And it is a waste of facility.


----------



## EC2boy (1 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> I've arranged a talk with tfl for next week about the sh. I will be organising the ride along shortly after.



If you ever want any more input with the TfL bods, give me a shout. I'm more than happy to spend some of my time contributing on this sort of thing.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4JAbqcpQM
> 
> Video of the segregation in use.





View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIpeo32V80


----------



## gaz (1 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIpeo32V80




Thats a great perspective, and having the bus in front shows what can't fit there.

Having been using it, do you think it has added anything so far to the junction?

I, unfortunately, don't have much experience of the junction at rush hour, so i can't comment on how i feel about it so far.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> Thats a great perspective, and having the bus in front shows what can't fit there.
> 
> Having been using it, do you think it has added anything so far to the junction?
> 
> I, unfortunately, don't have much experience of the junction at rush hour, so i can't comment on how i feel about it so far.



I think they've still got to put a 1.5m blue lane in there, but I'm not certain if it's going to be on the A203 or A3 lane. What's more, I'm not sure which is option is worse.

I'm pretty sure the purpose of segregating the moving traffic lanes is to slow traffic as the routes diverge and to stop lane swopping at the last minute. However, if you get squeezed you've now got limted escape options, unless you can bunny-hop kerbs at tight angles.

As for the short section at Stockwell Terrace, I'm struggling to see how that helps anybody.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

> As you may know, Cycle Superhighway 7 is due to be launched shortly and some of us carried out a quick cycle count on Balham High Road this
> morning in order to gather some 'before' data.
> 
> We covered the morning peak period 0700 - 0900 and stood on Balham High Road directly opposite Psubliminal cycle shop for those who know it
> ...



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wandcyclists/message/6060


----------



## Origamist (1 Jul 2010)

This is the section that really interests me (Oval tube to the A23/A3 junction):


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fITTlehfLU


At the moment, the CS lane is of no use to cyclists going straight on (like me in the vid). My strategy is to sprint to 30mph if I'm at the front of the traffic at Oval (in the centre of the road), but that's hardly a tactic that all cyclists can use. 

I'm hoping CSs will do something to help cyclists heading toward the E&C, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## gaz (1 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> This is the section that really interests me (Oval tube to the A23/A3 junction):
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fITTlehfLU
> ...




LOL good luck to the average cyclist trying that!

It looks like they have burnt some road markings just before the filter lane just before the lights at the end. possibly they might add something. If they don't then that is a big bummer!



Thanks interesting information in the first post. I'm sure if they went further along the route, the numbers would increase quite a bit.


----------



## Origamist (2 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> LOL good luck to the average cyclist trying that!
> 
> It looks like they have burnt some road markings just before the filter lane just before the lights at the end. possibly they might add something. If they don't then that is a big bummer!
> 
> Thanks interesting information in the first post. I'm sure if they went further along the route, the numbers would increase quite a bit.



They've removed some centre line markings and have burnt off much of the existing cycle lane. The ASL is in limbo at the moment. 

Here's what they proposed: 



> Building out the footway slightly at the bus stop; narrowing the central island along Kennington Park Road; and improving the layout of the island at the junction with Brixton Road. Pedestrian access will be maintained throughout this period, but may be slightly restricted at times as the work progresses. Resurfacing of the roadway at the junction. No side roads will be closed while this work takes place, but the northbound A23 will be closed at its junction with the A3. Traffic will be diverted via Camberwell New Rd, around the Oval and back onto Kennington Park Rd.
> 
> Minor civil engineering works, coloured surfacing, lining, signage and traffic signal works



http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/CS7_Implementation_Schedule_08.06.10.pdf

IIRC, the count at Kennington in the morning rush hour in summer is closer to 800 cyclists between 8-9.


----------



## Origamist (2 Jul 2010)

Gaz, your vid at Tooting Bec again:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/06/30/cycle-superhighways-looking-well-a-bit-rubbish/


----------



## Origamist (2 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> This is the section that really interests me (Oval tube to the A23/A3 junction):
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fITTlehfLU
> ...




Looks like a few other people are thinking the same thing as me:

http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2010/07/kennington-cross-no-joined-up-thinking.html


----------



## gaz (2 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> Gaz, your vid at Tooting Bec again:
> 
> http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/06/30/cycle-superhighways-looking-well-a-bit-rubbish/





> Meanwhile, the excellent New York-based online magazine, Slate, has a piece about superhighways around the world. It takes in Johnson’s blue lines and points out it’s early days for the Mayor’s plans. Even the genuinely super lanes in the Netherlands and Denmark took a time to evolve. Should I cut Boris some slack?


A good statement.


I saw something quite bad at stockwell today. Someone was using the same line as in my vidoe, and at the end of the first section they cut in without looking. Right in front of a HGV who slammed his brakes on and blasted his horn. The cyclist continued totally oblivious!


----------



## Riding in Circles (2 Jul 2010)

Probably listening to his iPod.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jul 2010)

More film of CS7:

Stockwell to Oval:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__PvN20QUJU


Tooting Bec to Balham

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sth8EhWADw


Kennington towards E&C:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APhzCsrk6i4


It also appears that there are 3 types of surfacing being used. At first it was the slick paint and high traction carpet, now we've also got the crazy grit.


----------



## gaz (3 Jul 2010)

The grit feels really weird.


----------



## style over speed (3 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> The grit feels really weird.



theres grit being laid down this evening on the southern half of clapham road if you want to go and see how its done.


----------



## Origamist (4 Jul 2010)

Stockwell segregated facility:


----------



## BentMikey (4 Jul 2010)

Was the guy in blue chasing the other car, and why did you blank the number plate out?


----------



## Origamist (4 Jul 2010)

BentMikey said:


> Was the guy in blue chasing the other car, and why did you blank the number plate out?



No, he was just trying to cross the road.

I'm not sure the occupants were the types who would take kindly to their VRN being posted on the internet. 

As you can see, even the raised table segregation will not stop determined motorists swopping lanes.


----------



## BentMikey (4 Jul 2010)

LOL, I think you take excessive care. They're posting it all over the road every time they drive it, and as an image it's not exactly searchable anyway.


----------



## gaz (4 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> As you can see, even the raised table segregation will not stop determined motorists swopping lanes.



but at least it should slow them down.


----------



## Origamist (4 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> but at least it should slow them down.



It certainly will. 

Still no work at Stockwell that will help cyclists going straight ahead when heading towards Clapham. I always found this more problematic than going north towards Kennington.

Elephant and Castle bypass: 

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3tky4po6Qg


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

BentMikey said:


> LOL, I think you take excessive care. They're posting it all over the road every time they drive it, and as an image it's not exactly searchable anyway.



You're probably right, but I'm not really interested in naming and shaming drivers for minor transgressions.


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

I missed this: 

*Horrific eyesore Limehouse cycle highway came out of the blue*

http://www.docklands24.co.uk/conten...ory=znews&itemid=WeED23 Jun 2010 10:12:33:463


----------



## JamesAC (5 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> I missed this:
> 
> *Horrific eyesore Limehouse cycle highway came out of the blue*
> 
> http://www.docklands24.co.uk/conten...ory=znews&itemid=WeED23 Jun 2010 10:12:33:463


.. and the cars and vans parked all over the place are not eyesores?

However, the blue splodges are a bit confusing. Fortunately, not much m/v traffic uses Narrow Street (well, not at 07:30 when I'm bowling along it).


----------



## martint235 (5 Jul 2010)

Thames Water are apparently already digging up CS7 (by the looks of the photo) http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthegap/2010/07/digging_up_another_hole_for_cy.html


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

JamesAC said:


> .. and the cars and vans parked all over the place are not eyesores?
> 
> However, the blue splodges are a bit confusing. Fortunately, not much m/v traffic uses Narrow Street (well, not at 07:30 when I'm bowling along it).



They're ostensibly route identifiers (sort of like roundels, but squarish!) that raise the profile of cycling and awareness of cyclists. They're put in when it's too narrow or the road conditions don't "suit" a blue lane. 

I like them as they're in the centre of the lane and they don't constrain cyclists in the same way that cycle lanes do.


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

martint235 said:


> Thames Water are apparently already digging up CS7 (by the looks of the photo) http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthegap/2010/07/digging_up_another_hole_for_cy.html



Ahh, just what I thought would happen!

https://www.cyclechat.net/


----------



## gaz (5 Jul 2010)

Let's see how well they resurface it!


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

Tooting Bec to Broadway: 


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY4QG0f-Xrw


It's considerably harder to overtake on this stretch now. 

At 18 secs you can see _Spice Village -_ they do a great ginger curry and fantastic masala fish...


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

Clapham Common to Clapham South: 


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP7hKezk4tA


----------



## Origamist (5 Jul 2010)

CS7: Clapham South to Balham:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrT-wrsrVcA


----------



## clarion (6 Jul 2010)

Today I went through the general traffic route at Stockwell A3 North. There was an awful lot of confusion going on there. The CS route, I see, does filter bikes into an ASL ahead of the general traffic, but I was one of several cyclists who were checking how clear the lane was before deciding which side of the silly raised section to go. The chap in front of me was clearly expecting to be able to pull over into the left hand lane to head onto the A3, but slowed right up when he found his way blocked, and no clarity about direction.

I'm still amused by the Oval section, where the CS goes along the side, then stops & magically reappears in the next lane across. Is there some sort of teleportaiton device to be installed there for less experienced cyclists? Or is it just as we suspected that the whole thing is a cop-out, and only works properly where there were previously bus lanes, i.e. where it isn't really needed?


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

clarion said:


> Today I went through the general traffic route at Stockwell A3 North. There was an awful lot of confusion going on there. The CS route, I see, does filter bikes into an ASL ahead of the general traffic, but I was one of several cyclists who were checking how clear the lane was before deciding which side of the silly raised section to go. The chap in front of me was clearly expecting to be able to pull over into the left hand lane to head onto the A3, but slowed right up when he found his way blocked, and no clarity about direction.?



Without the 1.5m blue strip, confusion reigns (although I suspect cylists will still use both lanes even after the strip is in situ). TFL are keeping a close eye on this junction (or so I'm led to believe) as not only is Stockwell triangle difficult for cyclists, but going down to 1 lane northbound will affect the capacity of (motorised) vehicles using the junction. 

I wish they'd just painted the whole lane blue (to the right of the raised intervention) that leads you onto the A3. 



clarion said:


> I'm still amused by the Oval section, where the CS goes along the side, then stops & magically reappears in the next lane across. Is there some sort of teleportaiton device to be installed there for less experienced cyclists? Or is it just as we suspected that the whole thing is a cop-out, and only works properly where there were previously bus lanes, i.e. where it isn't really needed?



As it stands, it's a huge cop out - it's almost as if they feel they've made an improvement south bound and that's enough cycle friendly work for Oval at the A3/A23. If they are going to tackle the straight on problem, they've got less than 2 weeks.

Vid of what you are talking about at Oval: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fITTlehfLU


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

martint235 said:


> Thames Water are apparently already digging up CS7 (by the looks of the photo) http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthegap/2010/07/digging_up_another_hole_for_cy.html



From: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4661



> Referring to a picture of Southwark Bridge circulated on Twitter by @SE1, the Mayor said: "I was slightly disappointed to read just a few hours ago that, according to some blogger, my brand new bright blue Cycle Superhighway is already being dug up by roadworks even before it has opened," said the Mayor.
> 
> He said that his plans for 'lane rental' by utility companies will help to solve this problem.


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

CS7 complementary measures. 

New cycle parking, Balham High Road: 










Recently installed Trixi mirror at Tooting Bec:


----------



## gaz (6 Jul 2010)

Which lights is the trixi mirror installed on?


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> Which lights is the trixi mirror installed on?



I almost missed it. It's the junction with Upper Tooting Road and Trinity Road at Tooting Bec tube.


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

User1314 said:


> Pity I live in Surbiton. I do take the wife and kids down sometimes though to Tooting. She does a bit of shopping for clothes. Then we go to a great cafe. Not a restaurant. Just a cafe. On your left as you head north. About half-way between Tooting Broadway and the Bec. Next to an indian sweets shop. Genuine home-made stuff, in a rough and ready plastic cafe environment. Knock down prices. Kebabs wrapped in parathas, for example, for £1.50.
> 
> Can't remember what it's called now.



If I pass you within 500m of _Spice Village_ in the next month, I'll shout you to a quick curry and a pint on the way home.


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

CS7 Clapham North to Stockwell:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXtSwxhj2Y


CS7 Southwark Bridge Road towards Southwark Bridge:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huy-FLpV8_w


----------



## martint235 (6 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> CS7 Clapham North to Stockwell:
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXtSwxhj2Y
> ...




What kind of bike do you ride? You seem very low down, is it some kind of head first 'bent?


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

martint235 said:


> What kind of bike do you ride? You seem very low down, is it some kind of head first 'bent?



Almost! Since the picture below was taken I have attached a camera to my nose:






Real film of me cycling (my fav clip): 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th9S2Dpq954


----------



## gaz (6 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> CS7 Clapham North to Stockwell:
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXtSwxhj2Y
> ...




I didn't ride yesterday, but i saw today that they relayed the bus lane between clapham and stockwell. and some of the blue stuff at union street. It seems a bit harsh to ride on.


----------



## Origamist (6 Jul 2010)

Go to 14.43 - BBC London News item on Cycle Superhighways:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t0dqj/BBC_London_News_06_07_2010/


----------



## gaz (6 Jul 2010)

An interesting watch.

I spoke to TFL today about the super highways, i didn't get the chance to talk about certain issues that some of us are aware of. I have managed to sort out the ride along, I did ask about the possibility of a few others coming but they asked not to as they want to keep it fairly small.


----------



## Origamist (7 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> An interesting watch.
> 
> I spoke to TFL today about the super highways, i didn't get the chance to talk about certain issues that some of us are aware of. I have managed to sort out the ride along, I did ask about the possibility of a few others coming but they asked not to as they want to keep it fairly small.



Gaz, Hembrow's got some good stuff here: 

http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/07/more-on-londons-superhighways.html


----------



## Origamist (7 Jul 2010)

Ride and interview with Nigel Hardy, the project manager for the CSs - really good stuff here: 

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/features/is-there-anything-super-about-the-cycle-superhighways/

I found this part, particularly telling:



> Riding the superhighway side-by-side with Nigel Hardy, which is barely possible along much of the route as the lanes are often just 1.5 metres wide, I wondered what he thought beginner cyclists would think of the experience.
> 
> As we stood at the final junction of our tour with Nigel pointing in various directions and explaining to me what cyclists need to do to pass this complicated junction I thought it was the right time to ask the question.
> 
> His response is perhaps the ultimate conclusion to the cycle superhighways. Without training he wouldn’t expect them to feel very happy riding along this busy A-road even with the superhighways in place.


----------



## gaz (7 Jul 2010)

That's who I'm riding with tomorrow. To launch a similar question?


----------



## Origamist (7 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> It certainly will.
> 
> *Still no work at Stockwell that will help cyclists going straight ahead when heading towards Clapham. I always found this more problematic than going north towards Kennington.*
> 
> ...




As you can see the blue lane helps at Stockwell if you're going towards Brixton, but it's not much good if you're actually following CS7 towards Clapham. 

If the lights are red you can use the ASL reservoir to reposition yourself more centrally, but that's not much help if the lights are green.

Stockwell Southbound:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcINu4rlk0


----------



## gaz (7 Jul 2010)

Origamist said:


> As you can see the blue lane helps at Stcokwell if you're going towards Brixton, but it's not much good if you're actually trying to following the CS7 towards Clapham.
> 
> If the lights are red you can use the ASL reservoir to reposition yourself more centrally, but that's not much help if the lights are green.
> 
> ...




The same if your going the other way as well. the csh is great if your going to vauxhall like me, but if your in moving traffic it's not so easy to get to the right if you're not experienced.


----------



## gaz (8 Jul 2010)

As i suspected the line around stockwell will be like this.


----------



## Origamist (8 Jul 2010)

I took the same route as the Range Rover in the picture above and will most likely continue to do so, but lots of cyclists used the new blue lane to the left. I can understand why as it means when you leave the lights at Stockwell you can take the centre lane and still continue towards Kennington (A3) via the blue CS (even though you're on the A203 towards Vauxhall). It also means that side swipes are less likley (although see pics passim). The traffic lane to the left of the blue CS looks fairly narrow so cyclists will have to be wary when passing or being passed by large/wide vehicles.

I can still see very little advantage to the second raised intervention due to the narrow opening and angle of entry. I envisage a few cyclists colliding with the concrete or one another.


----------



## clarion (8 Jul 2010)

I'd agree with that assessment, Origamist. The angles are wrong and it doesn't have the capacity. It is creating conflict in the general lane, too.

I went up the first part of the general lane this morning, noting the smurfication of the other lane, and noted that there is a slight widening of the lane as you approach the ASL. Not enough to let bikes past, but enough to tempt some people to try it.

Last night, Stockwell South, I noticed one and a half blue lanes at one set of lights, which is annoying, because the central lane turns rapidly into a bus lane, so attracts the cyclists heading for Clapham.


----------



## Origamist (8 Jul 2010)

I filmed it last night, Clarion. 

Stockwell Southbound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcINu4rlk0


----------



## clarion (8 Jul 2010)

I can't access vids from work 

I'll watch it later...


----------



## Origamist (8 Jul 2010)

This stretch/junction with the A3/A23 has been improved (only one lane instead of two to negotiate into if you're heading towards Stockwell), but it's not exactly cycle-friendly. More blue paint will follow shortly...

CS7 Oval Southbound: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0bXYeyGzHs


----------



## gaz (8 Jul 2010)

Went on the ride with the project manager of the cycle superhighway. He had lots of good stuff to say, and answered all my questions really well. I will be doing a write up what we saw, talked about and an insight into the future.

Origamist, i saw you on clapham south side, we were stopped on the pavement closing up on the ride.


----------



## Origamist (8 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> Went on the ride with the project manager of the cycle superhighway. He had lots of good stuff to say, and answered all my questions really well. I will be doing a write up what we saw, talked about and an insight into the future.
> 
> Origamist, i saw you on clapham south side, we were stopped on the pavement closing up on the ride.




Good stuff, Gaz - look forward to the write-up. 

Spotted!:


----------



## gaz (10 Jul 2010)

http://croydoncyclist.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/barclays-cycle-superhighway-meet-and-ride/

Wright up above. We spoke about a lot more. So I may be able to answer any questions about certain things.


----------



## PBancroft (10 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> http://croydoncyclis...-meet-and-ride/
> 
> Wright up above. We spoke about a lot more. So I may be able to answer any questions about certain things.



Is there anything to stop people parking in the blue?


----------



## gaz (10 Jul 2010)

Kaipaith said:


> gaz said:
> 
> 
> > http://croydoncyclis...-meet-and-ride/
> ...



Most of the route is only double reds, reds, double yellows or yellows. This means that at sometimes vehicles can park on it but this will be outside of the expected busy times (commutig times)

Whilst I was out with Nigel, two vehicles where illegally stopped in the superhighway. Cameras can give out parking fines. So if it is done illegally then they should get fines if seen.


----------



## gaz (11 Jul 2010)

some of the smaller signs have started to be attached to lamposts.

Here is a sneak peak at one which should have been covered up


----------



## BentMikey (11 Jul 2010)

I bet you climbed up there and pulled a bit off, you did!!!


----------



## gaz (11 Jul 2010)

BentMikey said:


> I bet you climbed up there and pulled a bit off, you did!!!



I was intrested as to what was hiding under there. I put the bag back on, so all is ok


----------



## martint235 (12 Jul 2010)

I actually went on CS3 with the Bromley massive yesterday and I must admit I found it a bit scary. It was out near Cable Street and the CS is raised similar to a pavement. Whilst this obviously stops traffic straying onto the CS I felt that if you were in the roadside lane of the CS and made a mistake perhaps when passing another cyclist, a 3-4inch kerb down to the road was going to hurt, a lot!!

I think, similar to shared cycle paths/pavement, I'll be leaving these CS well alone as I tend to commute at speed and I'd rather take my chances with the cars.


----------



## gaz (14 Jul 2010)

Guided rides are going to be run along the first two routes, these are aimed at new commuters that might be drawn to using the superhighways but are still nervous about using them. Marshalls will be on the ride to help new commuters, these are to be supplied by the LCC.


Looks like the starting times are around 7.30 for the furest place away from london, so taking around an hour and a half to get in, which is a nice pace for first commute.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/15598.aspx#barclays


----------



## Aperitif (14 Jul 2010)

'm with Martin on this one. Our experience was interesting. I think there might be the odd collision between cyclists heading in opposite directions, with narrow 'lanes' like that...perhaps a touch of pannier jousting or, as Martin pointed out - a drop into the road if there is a loss of balance or adjustment required. Some was dull 'blue tarmac' - other bits were seeminly painted blue and had a sheen. A few dead kebabs, bags, dog mess and paper completed the picture. Interesting times.


----------



## clarion (14 Jul 2010)

I had to pull out round two roadsweepers in CS7 this morning. Is there a better time than rush hour to clean it, do you think? Or was Boris going to a photo opp?


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

More Photo's here


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

tfl press release said:


> The Mayor, Barclays and Transport for London (TfL) today launched the first two Barclays Cycle Superhighways, which aim to help significantly increase the number of Londoners choosing pedal power for their daily commute.
> 
> A key part of the Mayor’s commitment to stimulate a cycling revolution in the Capital, the two pilot routes run from Merton to the City via the A24 and A3, and Barking to Tower Gateway via the A13 and Cable Street. Around 5,000 cycle journeys are currently made every day on both pilot routes, with TfL aiming to increase this to 27,000 cycle trips a day by 2013.
> 
> ...


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

A full video of route 3 from tower gateway to barking

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WvqGS7GYy8


----------



## PBancroft (19 Jul 2010)

Can't see that this has been posted anywhere (apologies if it has) but I think this speaks volumes...


----------



## jonny jeez (19 Jul 2010)

Arch said:


> I like the idea of diplaying cycling time to destination (maybe they mean on maps, but I'd like to see signs by the road). Add in driving time (assuming normal peak traffic) and some people in cars might start to see sense...
> 
> Otherwise, token road paint is just that - token.



that is a really good idea!!


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

jonny jeez said:


> that is a really good idea!!


They have signs at the level of normal road signs that display cycling time to specific locations. Although they could be larger as I doubt you can read them as you're doing 30 past them.


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

I went to the launch this morning and got hasseled by some police officer talking to me about getting my bike stamped, even after i said no thanks for the 4th time he still continued. Anyway i walked around, saw a few people i knew from TFL that had been working on it, some people from the LCC and CTC, some cycling magazines and some london bloggers.

Looking around i certainly didn't fit in with all the suit wearing, looking down their nose types that probably don't even cycle but are just there to get in some photos. So i decided to take some free stuff and get off to work.

I'll continue to let my videos do the talking. Route 7 is looking nice, still some minor issues around E&C. Route 3 on the other hand is bad in some places. i got lost on several occasions and much of it is on pavement which is made of bricks, less than smooth.


----------



## Lurker (19 Jul 2010)

gaz said:


> ... Route 3 on the other hand is bad in some places. i got lost on several occasions and much of it is on pavement which is made of bricks, less than smooth.




Brick paving sounds worrying in itself - that's going to be lethal in icy weather (and how likely is it that any attempt will be made to grit it?)


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

I think gritting it will be forgotten at first! I doubt many people walk alongside the a13!
Drainage will also be a big issue, I can see now plenty of standing water forming on the route.


----------



## zimzum42 (19 Jul 2010)

BBC article about the CSH today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-10648330


----------



## gaz (19 Jul 2010)

[QUOTE 462318"]
I cycled past those marquees this morning. Thought about stopping but it looked very, well, clean. Would've stopped if they'd had a fry up on offer.

Those freebies given away to cyclists for brekkie at Blackfriars and St Pauls are alright. Satchels, fruities, croissants, muffins.
[/quote]

There was some food, from a really small burger van. the queue was quite long so i didn't see what it was.


----------



## Origamist (26 Jul 2010)

I've added the CS concept defintion guide (pdf) to the downloads forum, if anyone is interested.


----------



## gaz (26 Jul 2010)

Will have a gander at that later on.


----------



## Origamist (27 Jul 2010)

From TFL re: the slippiness or otherwise of the CSs:



> Yes we are aware of some reports that some people have expressed concern as to
> the skid resistance of the surface. We have reviewed these comments and they do
> not appear to match with the actual performance of the surface when it has been
> assessed, either informally by cyclists riding on the surface and specifically
> ...


----------



## NickM (29 Jul 2010)

I use one of these on part of my commute (Route 7, I think).

Except for a raised boundary at the northbound junction near Stockwell Tube station, there is nothing to stop motorised traffic from impinging upon the blue lane/zone. And on my initial trip homewards down Clapham High Street I came upon 3 vehicles parked in the blue area within the first hundred yards or so. And they are not exactly continuous, either, degenerating into disconnected blue blocks wherever motor traffic might conceivably be inconvenienced or inhibited by their presence.

What is the point of them? They are a typical sop, and do absolutely nothing to alter driver behaviour. Just as we might have expected...

What a useless waste of money


----------



## clarion (10 Aug 2010)

Posted this elsewhere, but I thought it might be of interest:

*CS7 Rain report*

We've had some speculation on how the smurfway would perform in the rain, so today was a good time to test it. Here are my impressions:

*Traction*
It was feared that the blue paint would be slippier than normal tarmac or painted bus lanes. Well, it is and it isn't. The painted sections are a bit more dicey, but the gritted bits at junctions seem to be as good as in the dry. There wasn't an appreciable change in moving on or off the lane.

*Visibility*
We've heard that the blue is visible under streetlights at night. I don't know, as I've not really ridden it after dark. What surprised me this morning was that, in the rain and gloom, the blue was in places virtually indistinguishable from the normal grey tarmac. This might be a concern.

*Standing water*
Well, roads are designed so that the water clears to the gutter, so it's unsurprising that the water is running onto the CS. And we know that the drains in various places, including Stockwell and Tooting Bec, are a bit rubbish, so the unwary cyclist can end up ploughing through, or stopping in, a significant puddle.

I found myself indicating more definitely than normal because I didn't expect dozy motorists to work out that I might need more space to go round the little lakes. But I didn't really get any bother.

*Junctions*
Those junctions which have been amended to have a raised section of block paving at the road mouth became quite sketchy, especially where the edging wasn't set fully into the road and formed an unintended kerb.


----------



## gaz (10 Aug 2010)

experienced pretty much the same today. Damn lakes in parts of the superhighway where a pain, but i was already soaked from the OCEANS in croydon


----------



## gaz (14 Aug 2010)

I got quoted in Cycling Plus about the superhighways.
"I use the superhighways a lot.. A shame it's not more like some of the Dutch systems, but Rome wasn't built in a day. There are still some issues that are going to need to be ironed out from a cyclist's point of view.. I think we should be grateful that we are getting more for cyclists, even if it's not up to scratch."


----------



## Origamist (16 Sep 2010)

Cycle lanes through the mouths of junctions create a tension between cycling education and traffic engineering. Did this lane help me, hinder me, or did it make sod all difference...

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrksX3uMvfg[/media]


----------



## ManiaMuse (16 Sep 2010)

Might have helped him spot you traveling at an insane speed?


----------



## Origamist (16 Sep 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> Might have helped him spot you traveling at an insane speed?



What's my "insane" speed?


----------



## gaz (16 Sep 2010)

I don't even need to watch the video to guess what happens. A very silly bit of road design here!!!

Do you know there is a survey on going about the sh? There is an email address you can use to bring such things up.


----------



## theboytaylor (16 Sep 2010)

surely the lane isn't the problem there, just the driver not seeing you and nearly turning right across you? looks like it would have happened even if you were painted blue rather than the first 3 ft of road!


----------



## gaz (16 Sep 2010)

But the lane puts you on the left, next to the curb. Is this always the right place to be?
What happens if you don't use it when it's provided for you?


----------



## theboytaylor (16 Sep 2010)

gaz said:


> But the lane puts you on the left, next to the curb. Is this always the right place to be?
> What happens if you don't use it when it's provided for you?



See your point, but (unless he staged this all as a demonstration of the problem  ) Origamist doesn't seem to be the type to blindly follow the CSH because it's there, so his road position - I am guessing - most of the time would have similar to the one he's taking in the vid. I'm sure from Origamist's posts and chatting to him that he's not the type of cyclist to be influenced into doing something that will cause him more inconvenience solely because it's been put there for cyclists to use, so he would most likely have been on that part of the road, blue or not, and the driver would have been just as likely not to see him. 

On the whole I am sceptical of the true value of the SHs and am always wary of this type of specific provision as it entrenches the "you should be there" mentality of certain people. I was just making the point that this type of incident may have happened on any road in any conditions - it seemed irrelevant to me that this was on the CSH. Nit-picking, I'll admit, but I'm bored and my self-edit function isn't working so well today!


----------



## gaz (16 Sep 2010)

But the cyclists who are slower are never going to take a strong position and hold it.


----------



## gaz (16 Sep 2010)

But the cyclists who are slower are never going to take a strong position and hold it. They will just follow the blue line. As is expected by the motorists.


----------



## theboytaylor (16 Sep 2010)

gaz said:


> But the cyclists who are slower are never going to take a strong position and hold it. They will just follow the blue line. As is expected by the motorists.


But if a quick, experienced cyclist such as Origamist is taking that position on that piece of road, then perhaps it's a reasonable position to be in on that particular stretch of road in the conditions experienced at that time. The cyclist's position is not necessarily the problem in this case: the problem seems to be that the motorist looked down the road, saw no cars and started to turn right, almost into the oncoming cyclist. 

I think we're both labouring this point now. Encouraging inexperienced cyclists to follow set routes that may in fact be more harmful or bring them into conflict with other users is clearly poor and there are many instances of this in the CSH system to date. 100% agree with that. Just wasn't 100% sure that the CSH in any way contributed to this incident.


----------



## BentMikey (17 Sep 2010)

I think that perhaps best practice might have been to ride a little further out, but I'm also not sure it would have made much difference in this specific situation. Somewhat unusually, not covering the brakes either.


----------



## Origamist (17 Sep 2010)

I ususally either ride in the right-hand side of the CS (about 1.2m from the kerb) or in the centre of the nearside lane along there. Riding on the edge of the CS creates conflict as the nearside lane has been narrowed. 

Normally I would have pulled out more when approaching that junction, but I'd shoulder checked and was watching the bus stop - just as I was about to move right I spotted the car indicating. At that point, there was no advantage to moving right as it would have made a collision more likely.

The inclusion of the CS changes the way I ride and I'm compromised from time to time...


----------



## Origamist (23 Sep 2010)

Mayoral Questions September:




> Question No: 2766 / 2010
> 
> Jenny Jones
> 
> ...



It was my understanding that advisory cycle lanes are enforceable if a cyclist is riding within the lane when a motorist encroaches.


----------



## Origamist (23 Sep 2010)

Mayoral Questions September: 



> Question No: 2576 / 2010
> 
> Valerie Shawcross
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (23 Sep 2010)

Mayoral Questions September:



> Murad Qureshi
> 
> What safer "diversion routes to avoid the barriers" have TfL provided on CSH7/A3 at Stockwell and Oval, as these are major KSI hazards which TfL have still not resolved.
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (23 Sep 2010)

Mayoral Questions September



> London cycle hire scheme – Advanced Stop lines
> 
> Question No: 2587 / 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## Origamist (13 Oct 2010)

Work starts on two new London cycle superhighways:

http://road.cc/content/news/25012-work-starts-two-new-london-cycle-superhighways


----------



## Origamist (26 Oct 2010)

> Cycle Super Highways
> Question No: 3248 / 2010
> Valerie Shawcross
> Why are you spending money to install two additional Superhighways before you
> ...


----------



## clarion (26 Oct 2010)

Curious about the data being quoted there. Sure there were more riders on the CS after it opened, but it's been a warm summer, and bike traffic has been growing significantly for years.

If the amount of traffic is significantly higher than would be extrapolated by the plot of summer traffic would predict (measured in the same manner), I might agree. Somehow, I doubt that minimum dataset is met.

I take the second part of the answer to mean 'we have no data on safety at all.'


----------



## gaz (26 Oct 2010)

I've expressed my concerns in great detail to several people in key positions, nothing as of yet has happened about any of it.


----------



## Origamist (27 Oct 2010)

"Our street is too narrow for a cycle superhighway"


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...eet-is-too-narrow-for-a-cycle-superhighway.do


----------



## EC2boy (27 Oct 2010)

Is it just me, or have they shortened the one from Wandsworth to Westminster? It was originally going all the way to Trafalgar Square but now on the TFL page, it stops at Lambeth Bridge?


----------



## gaz (27 Oct 2010)

Origamist said:


> "Our street is too narrow for a cycle superhighway"
> 
> 
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...eet-is-too-narrow-for-a-cycle-superhighway.do


Are these the same people that complained when it first launched?
That road, at points, is too narrow for cars! And it's the point on the super highways where they haven't painted a cycle lane, just the advisory boxes in the middle of the road. Stop complaining!


----------



## JamesAC (27 Oct 2010)

The CS originally planned to run from Ilford, through Stratford and Bow to the city won't until after 2012. The London Borough of Newham along with the Olympic people have objected. It seems that "operational testing" of the Olympic priority routes (the special lanes set aside for Coporate Sponsors and the Press to be whisked from their park Lane jotels to the Olympic site) will begin in 2011. There isn't enough room for cycles as well.


----------



## dellzeqq (28 Oct 2010)

JamesAC said:


> The CS originally planned to run from Ilford, through Stratford and Bow to the city won't until after 2012. The London Borough of Newham along with the Olympic people have objected. It seems that "operational testing" of the Olympic priority routes (the special lanes set aside for Coporate Sponsors and the Press to be whisked from their park Lane jotels to the Olympic site) will begin in 2011. There isn't enough room for cycles as well.


you've hit a rather ugly nail on the head. The ORN is going down the very route that thousands of cyclists already use. In the mean time the committee working out how to get cyclists to the Olympics is counting on us joining some dopey path. 

The residents of Narrow Street may just have a point. If you were to put CS7 levels of cycle traffic down Narrow Street they wouldn't be able to cross the road. I reckon the A13 running parallel is a better bet.


----------



## Origamist (28 Oct 2010)

CSH#8 First Peek:

http://cycalogical.blogspot.com/2010/10/csh8-first-peek.html


----------



## Origamist (18 Nov 2010)

Cyclists taking more of their share of the road?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthegap/2010/11/_walking_over_southwark_bridge.html


----------



## Blackandblue (19 Nov 2010)

Origamist said:


> Cyclists taking more of their share of the road?
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk...ark_bridge.html




Yes, I saw that and it made me chuckle. The grammar in the heading is peculiar - at first I couldn't work out whether it was pro-cyclists ("Yay, cyclists are getting more of the road!") or anti ("Boo, cyclists are taking more of the road than they deserve"). When I read the article I decided on the latter but it was so ill-informed that I decided to ignore it.

The comments are all good and ultimately the author admits to a helping of humble pie. And even asks for feedback as to how the Stockwell segregation is working (which for my part, I can't really comment on, as I chose to abandon that route into work pretty much as soon as CS7 opened for business - which in a way expresses my views on its usefulness).


----------



## clarion (21 Nov 2010)

The segregation lane is turning into a collection point for wet leaves. Thursday and friday there was a piece of wood in it. It needs sweeping more often, but I'm not expecting it to happen.

When the ice comes, there won't be any room to manoeuvre round it.


----------



## clarion (23 Nov 2010)

The piece of wood is still there.


----------



## gaz (23 Nov 2010)

Move it  
I sometimes stop and move wood and debris from the cycle lanes in Croydon.


----------



## clarion (23 Nov 2010)

Oh, I often stop & pick up stuff from the road (including this morning a minute or so before I went through the gyratory), but the segregated cycle path at Stockwell is not a place where someone stopping would be viewed positively. 

EDIT: 24/11
It's still there; I didn't pick it up this morning either (but nor did Gaz  ); it's now in two pieces.


----------



## Tynan (24 Nov 2010)

they've starting marking out the Mile End Road, stretch here and there in blue, no other markings yet and on the way home the surface was completely loose and rubbish

grand width, cars shying away from it like it's a mine field


----------



## gaz (24 Nov 2010)

Tynan said:


> they've starting marking out the Mile End Road, stretch here and there in blue, no other markings yet and on the way home the surface was completely loose and rubbish
> 
> grand width, cars shying away from it like it's a mine field



ooooh that will all change. just wait.


----------



## Origamist (30 Nov 2010)

*Not so super after all*
http://crerar.standard.co.uk/2010/11/not-so-super-after-all.html 
*

Cycle superhighways 'missing goal' in London*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11869462


----------



## gaz (30 Nov 2010)

Just posted this in campaign
http://www.london.gov.uk/publication/pedal-power


----------



## Origamist (12 Jan 2011)

CSs hailed as a success:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/londons-cycle-superhighways-hailed-as-a-success-28877


----------



## esrite (12 Jan 2011)

i dont get the Mile end route as it leads to a flyover


----------



## Bollo (12 Jan 2011)

Origamist said:


> CSs hailed as a success:
> 
> http://www.bikeradar...a-success-28877



Hi Matt, back from your annual CC holiday?

It'd be interesting to know the breakdown of the increase in terms of existing cyclists who've changed their route to use the CSs and new cyclists. Also, for the new cyclists, how important were the CSs in determining their choice?


----------



## gaz (12 Jan 2011)

As i said on my blog post, it's hard to tell how many of those are new cyclists and how many of them where already cycling but have deviated from another route to cycle on it.
It would also be intresting to see the stats on vehicle usage along the superhighways and if that has decreased.


----------



## Origamist (12 Jan 2011)

Bollo said:


> Hi Matt, back from your annual CC holiday?
> 
> It'd be interesting to know the breakdown of the increase in terms of existing cyclists who've changed their route to use the CSs and new cyclists. Also, for the new cyclists, how important were the CSs in determining their choice?



Yes, a shorter hibernation than usaul, but I only seem to have missed a Hi-Viz debate...



> TfL believes that it is reasonable to conclude, at this stage, that this increase is not due to cyclists diverting from parallel routes.



I'm not sure how they have come to this conclusion as I know people who have migrated from parallel routes (but less of the anecdata). What's more, (as far as I know), cyclist counts are not conducted in the streets surrounding the CSs...



> The Committee’s survey revealed far less enthusiasm from new cyclists for the cycle superhighways compared to the hire scheme.* Only one per cent of respondents had started cycling specifically because of the cycle superhighways*


What must not be forgotten is that before the CSs were deployed the routes were increasingly seeing higher cyclist flows, year on year. 



Source of quotes: http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/FINAL REPORT.pdf


----------



## Bollo (13 Jan 2011)

Thanks for that O. And I thought I'd set you a challenge.

My take on the CSs (and Boris Bikes) is that they're important more in terms of what they represent than what they physically provide. As facilities they're often compromised, occasionally silly and suffer all the disadvantages of any painted segregation. As symbols of an aspiration they're very effective. I think the choice of colour was no accident. The unusual and bold blue (at least initially) makes them stand out from the mass of other road markings and places drivers on the defensive. Good or bad, they're getting *noticed*.

Sweeping across the entire facilities/cycling numbers debate, I believe that people cycle because they see other people cycling. More specifically, more people will cycle if they see people like them cycling. The shear concentration of cycle traffic along these high-profile routes may be sufficient to break down people's social prejudices against getting on a bike themselves. In this sense, I'm sure there's a virtuous circle between the number of cyclists and the quantity and (hopefully) quality of provision, but I'd take a lot of convincing that facilities are a 'first cause' for any increase. 

Pseud's corner is this way, right? ----->


----------



## Origamist (19 Jan 2011)

Cycle Superhighway route 8
Mayoral Questions: Dec 2010


Question No: 3966 / 2010

Jenny Jones

Will cycle superhighway route 8 comply with the London Cycle Network-recommended
width of 1.5m?

Answer from the Mayor

All cycle lanes on Barclays Cycle Superhighway route 8 will be at least 1.5m
wide, and in many cases, wider. 80% of the route will include marked cycle
lanes, with the legal orders in place for mandatory cycle lanes along 25% of the
route (which are forbidden for use by general traffic). Between Chelsea Bridge
and Westminster, route 8 will mainly consist of new 2m wide mandatory cycle
lanes.


----------



## gaz (19 Jan 2011)

Origamist said:


> Cycle Superhighway route 8
> Mayoral Questions: Dec 2010
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm that will be interesting to see if they do manage to get 25% of it to be mandatory and all of it at least 1.5m in width.

Have you looked at the route? If going from Westminster to Wandsworth then around battersea park you have to go the wrong way down a one way residential road (Macduff Road). At present there is already allocated space for cyclists to do this, all be it in the door zone. The reason they choose this road is due to the Toucan crossing at the other end to allow cyclists going that way to easily make the right turn onto Battersea Park Road.
I hope some re-development is done on this road, as at present it's going to be hard for cyclists to come down that road with a large car coming the other way.


----------



## BSRU (19 Jan 2011)

What do they by mandatory bicycle lanes, I was under the impression all bicycle lanes are optional?


----------



## benb (19 Jan 2011)

BSRU said:


> What do they by mandatory bicycle lanes, I was under the impression all bicycle lanes are optional?



I think it means bicycles only. Confusing wording, I agree.


----------



## As Easy As Riding A Bike (19 Jan 2011)

BSRU said:


> What do they by mandatory bicycle lanes, I was under the impression all bicycle lanes are optional?



Mandatory bicycle lanes are marked by a solid white line, meaning that vehicles should (the emphasis on should) not enter them.


----------



## BSRU (19 Jan 2011)

Thanks for that, "mandatory" gives the impression you have no choice.
I suppose it is less of a mouthful than "legally enforceable with FPN's bicycle only lane".


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2011)

Mayoral Q/A March 2011: 




> Cycle problems at Oval
> Question No: 434 / 2011
> Valerie Shawcross
> I have received a large number of complaints from cyclists using the Cycle
> ...


----------



## gaz (4 Mar 2011)

The blue paint doesn't make cyclists more visible, it makes the edge of the road where some motorists think we should be more visible.

Are there any decent suggestions about what could happen at this junction?


----------



## Origamist (4 Mar 2011)

gaz said:


> The blue paint doesn't make cyclists more visible, it makes the edge of the road where some motorists think we should be more visible.
> 
> Are there any decent suggestions about what could happen at this junction?



20mph limit, remove the railings, fewer lanes, advanced green light for cyclists...

Southbound has been improved - not greatly, but it's a little better. Northbound is still as crap as ever.


----------



## style over speed (4 Mar 2011)

gaz said:


> The blue paint doesn't make cyclists more visible, it makes the edge of the road where some motorists think we should be more visible.
> 
> Are there any decent suggestions about what could happen at this junction?



Removing the dual carriageway barriers in the centre of the road and adding that space to the blue width would be a start. Doubling or tripling the size of the ASL boxes giving them their own cyclist phases and green phasing with the set of lights at the junction of Kennington Road.



...but I havent charged £100, 000 for a consultation so my views are irrelevant


----------



## Jezston (4 Mar 2011)

Send them an invoice then!


----------

