# Has anybody had a finger in their bum recently?



## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

I'm just asking. I have, and it wasn't recreational. Medical peeps do this as routine practice, and I was on the sharp end. OK ,OK, a lot of female posters may say that a whole tribe of medics live in their reproductive organs, men are pathetic etc etc, but I'm interested in what men might say.


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## pauldavid (5 Aug 2018)

Are you only interested in finger stories? 


Asking for a friend


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## burntoutbanger (5 Aug 2018)

Only my own, won't be buying that tissue paper again....


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

pauldavid said:


> Are you only interested in finger stories?
> 
> 
> Asking for a friend


Judging by the GP's attempts to investigate with a delicate finger, I think that I might not be quite ready for more robust tools.


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## Drago (5 Aug 2018)

Twice, and an attractive lady doctor each time. I can't say I was thrilled, but some gents pay good money for that sort of jolly.



pauldavid said:


> Are you only interested in finger stories?



Havenyou been falling down the stairs naked while greasing aubergines again?


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## Illaveago (5 Aug 2018)

How recent ? 
8 months ago and it picked up that I had prostate cancer despite having a normal PSA result.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

Illaveago said:


> How recent ?
> 8 months ago and it picked up that I had prostate cancer despite having a normal PSA result.


About two weeks ago. My PSA was entirely normal but I have five friends with prostate cancer, and I was worried. I expected my familiar male doctor. I presented myself with a squeaky clean rectum (how do you do that????) only to find that there was a tiny female locum. It went ahead, despite a brief moment when I thought I could run for the door. She wasn't that gentle actually.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

Anybody got any clues about how to clean your botty prior to this stuff? It would be polite to do so, don't you think?


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## Dave7 (5 Aug 2018)

Few years ago.......and it was a female GP. Took me by surprise as I expected my 'problem' to be treated by prescription.
I well remember the feeling of dread as she put the plastic glove on.
I also remember her saying "now you must relax otherwise it may hurt" and me thinking...... how the hell am I supposed to relax while you shove your fingers up my bum .
Whatever she did up there cured the problem (something was apparently twisted).
I said to her "now I found that very uncomfortable so have no idea how people can do it for pleasure" but.....thats probably not a subject for CC


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## Sharky (5 Aug 2018)

I have and also investigations on the other side - a cystoscopy. Now that's an experience.
Glad to say that I am all clear, but on a 9 month watch, so one more to endure.


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## screenman (5 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Anybody got any clues about how to clean your botty prior to this stuff? It would be polite to do so, don't you think?



Plenty of people my wife works on have not washed since the last visit, she is a podiatrist. Not quite as bad as your scenario I guess.


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## screenman (5 Aug 2018)

25 years ago by a doctor with hands the size of a bunch of bananas, made my eyes water that day.


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## Drago (5 Aug 2018)

screenman said:


> 25 years ago by a doctor with hands the size of a bunch of bananas, made my eyes water that day.



That was a bunch of bananas, and that wasn't a doctor!


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## Slick (5 Aug 2018)

A few times now by a variety of males and females and I've yet to work out which is worse. 

The pressure test round the front was no cake walk either or the BBC camera they put down there every 3 months or so.


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## smokeysmoo (5 Aug 2018)

Never the finger, oh no I bypssed that and went straight to HMS Invincible 

First time for a Sigmoidoscopy which wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but I'd never join a queue for one, however, as that didn't show anything they decided a few short weeks later they should do Colonoscopy, (same procedure but they go further in/up/round), only this time it was HMS Voracious, and I think it had been in an accident that had flattened it's front!

As a result I'm convinced that Captain Consultant took a run up from the other side of the room prior to making first contact 

Still awaiting these results but at least I can sit down again now after a couple of weeks


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## raleighnut (5 Aug 2018)

Thankfully no but they did catheterise me when I broke my Femur (before the operation)


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## Fnaar (5 Aug 2018)

My doctor was kind enough to rest both his hands on my shoulders to reassure me during the procedure


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## numbnuts (5 Aug 2018)

Been there done that and I can't see what the fuss was about


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## Drago (5 Aug 2018)

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=beqdxDlNnVs


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## Illaveago (5 Aug 2018)

numbnuts said:


> Been there done that and I can't see what the fuss was about


You need hind sight for that !


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## Crackle (5 Aug 2018)

It's a smashing Sunday breakfast thread this.


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## TheDoctor (5 Aug 2018)

I suddenly don't fancy my toast and Nutella.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (5 Aug 2018)

I had it a couple if months ago. I mentioned to the doctor that it must be weird to do it when you've never met someone before. He just laughed and said it was an occupational hazard.


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## stephec (5 Aug 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> I suddenly don't fancy my toast and Nutella.


I've just had sausage and eggs.


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## biggs682 (5 Aug 2018)

burntoutbanger said:


> Only my own, won't be buying that tissue paper again....


Value range ??


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## Nigel-YZ1 (5 Aug 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> I suddenly don't fancy my toast and Nutella.



And don't watch the sarlacc scene from Return of the Jedi.


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## postman (5 Aug 2018)

Finger,finger you got away lightly.When i was a lad a few years ago i 'ad a colonoscopy,a camera yes a bbc camera,and she asked did i want to watch it in hd,i ask you a finger pah.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (5 Aug 2018)

I think I have led a sheltered life!


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## postman (5 Aug 2018)

Secondly is this a send up.title of post 
*Has anybody had a finger in their bum recenty?*

*posted by.*

*,*
*slow motion, is the poster having a laugh.*

*Now i do't know why i have this fancy font,it's possible because i copied and pasted the original heading.*

*Bowels and slow motion brilliant.*


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## PK99 (5 Aug 2018)

Dave7 said:


> Few years ago.......and it was a female GP. Took me by surprise as I expected my 'problem' to be treated by prescription.



It's the modern way, everything is digital these days.


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## Fnaar (5 Aug 2018)

In the real world, a friend of mine actually spends a lot of his working life as a doctor sticking cameras up people's bottoms. I tend not to ask him for too many anecdotes from work.


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## PK99 (5 Aug 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> I suddenly don't fancy my toast and Nutella.



Churros and hot chocolate?


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## User6179 (5 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Anybody got any clues about how to clean your botty prior to this stuff? It would be polite to do so, don't you think?



Hozelock do some nice attachments


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## numbnuts (5 Aug 2018)

PK99 said:


> Churros and hot chocolate?


I'll have mine with coffee thanks


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## night cycler (5 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Anybody got any clues about how to clean your botty prior to this stuff? It would be polite to do so, don't you think?



The best advice I can share on that is to very gently and carefully shave the hair from around the anus and surrounding area on the day you are visiting the medic. I say that because a day or so later you tend to get a rash. You will also likely feel sore on the bike afterwards for a day ir two. 

Once clean shaven, use plenty of soap suds around there to ensure you are inpecably clean. 

(Been going to see the medics since I had the farmer Giles removed in Nov, and the above is my method of hygiene).


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## wheresthetorch (5 Aug 2018)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> I had it a couple if months ago. I mentioned to the doctor that it must be weird to do it when you've never met someone before. He just laughed and said it was an occupational hazard.



Whereas fairly normal with someone you do know??


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## glasgowcyclist (5 Aug 2018)

numbnuts said:


> Been there done that and I can't see what the fuss was about



Is that because the numbness is no longer restricted to your nuts?


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## fossyant (5 Aug 2018)

Not had one for a few years. That feeling you are about to let go of your bowls is not pleasant, when the doc starts pressing on the prostrate. Fortunately I had a Urologist that knew what he was doing.


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## Salty seadog (5 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Anybody got any clues about how to clean your botty prior to this stuff? It would be polite to do so, don't you think?



isn't it the case that in a certain industry they have them bleached?


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## Salty seadog (5 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> My doctor was kind enough to rest both his hands on my shoulders to reassure me during the procedure



there's not enough likes in the world.


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## Globalti (5 Aug 2018)

My brother swears that a past GF who was a medic actually reached round and tickled his prostate just as he was on the gravy strokes; which he said was a mind-blowing experience.

My cycling buddy is also a gastroenterologist and since he broke his hand by hitting a bumbling cyclist head-on he hasn't been able to operate the endoscope or a bottle opener, which is serious.


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## Cycleops (5 Aug 2018)

I hereby nominate this for 'Thread of the Month''.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

Eddy said:


> Hozelock do some nice attachments
> 
> 
> View attachment 422694


I searched on Google for some suggestions about rectal cleaning. My search term was "How to get ready for some back door action", I think. There was eerie reticence, even from some of the dubious websites.


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## fossyant (5 Aug 2018)

PS, serious note, any fella over 50 needs to get checked and the PSA monitored.

PS After Lung and bowl cancer, prostrate and breast run joint third. There is very little prostrate cancer awareness compared to breast.

Get checked lads. It's now't compared to the smear tests your good ladies have to have each year or so.

I had to be checked because of meds I was taking, but I've not been checked since. Riding your bike and 'sex' up the botty can raise PSA prior to a blood test. 

Get checked as it's a big killer.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

fossyant said:


> PS, serious note, any fella over 50 needs to get checked and the PSA monitored.
> 
> PS After Lung and bowl cancer, prostrate and breast run joint third. There is very little prostrate cancer awareness compared to breast.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much what my GP said. A PSA test shortly after a DRE can yield dodgy readings.


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## fossyant (5 Aug 2018)

Get Prostrate cancer in your old age (70 plus), it won't kill you, but younger it will. 

Any issues going to the loo need talking to the GP, which reminds me, my new pain killers stop me having a pee/poo easily. 

If you can't pee/poo easily - GP appointment.

My uncle has it, but in his early 70's, he has been told it won't kill him. He's also active.


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## marzjennings (5 Aug 2018)

No finger in the bum yet, but I have a full physical coming up with the Doc in two weeks were I'm expecting some new tests for this almost 50 year old body.


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## fossyant (5 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> That's pretty much what my GP said. A PSA test shortly after a DRE can yield dodgy readings.



I'd always had my blood test after riding to work was OK. Last time wasn't (car), but it had gone up 0.5 - and no 'other stuff'. It's a check I have to have on my meds - no finger again fortunately..


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## fossyant (5 Aug 2018)

marzjennings said:


> No finger in the bum yet, but I have a full physical coming up with the Doc in two weeks were I'm expecting some new tests for this almost 50 year old body.



I've avoided them. Mine was because of meds I needed after the 'worlds worse snip' - I.e. Lance Armstrong drugs - I have to take it every day. But, my wife was in the consulting room, and I said 'you might want to leave as he is about to put his finger up my bum' - so she did... not something your wife needs to see either. I knew what was coming.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

[QUOTE 5338303, member: 21629"]Use this + warm water:

View attachment 422772


I have no clue how it's called in English. Sizes varies.

Don't even think about asking me how I know this _(answer would destroy my image as a good girl)_.  [/QUOTE]

Splendid! I must get one.


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## Andrew_P (5 Aug 2018)

Not recently but the the one at 13 sticks in my mind laying in A&E in agony memory could be playing tricks but I am pretty sure it came without warning within minutes j was being rushed to have my now burst appendix out. To be honest I couldn't give a feck at the time what they did


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (5 Aug 2018)

In simple terms, that's an anal douche


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> In simple terms, that's an anal douche


Which end is the handle?


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## bruce1530 (5 Aug 2018)

I have posted this before on another thread:



> I was seeing a urology specialist for another matter ( he wasn’t a doctor as such - he was a nurse consultant - although since he had a PhD, he’s actually got more right to call himself Doctor than a doctor - but I digress...)
> 
> Anyway - I mentioned that my dad had had prostate cancer, and should I get checked out. He said “We’ll do a DRE (Digital Rectal Exam - finger up the bum) on your next visit - I’ll get 'him next door' to do it", referring to a consultant who was a specialist in that particular field. “I’m qualified to do these things, but I only do them maybe a couple of times a year, and he’s doing them several times a day. ”
> 
> ...


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

On a faintly serious note, I had mentioned my concerns on about three occasions. I got the impression that prostate cancer wasn't high up on the list of NHS priorities, judging by the reluctance of my GP to do any tests, whether it was a PSA, DRE, or whatever. I may be mistaken, of course.


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## tony111 (5 Aug 2018)

Doctor asked me to strip off from the waist down. I asked what should I do with my trousers. "Put them over there with mine " was not the answer I expected.


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## Milzy (5 Aug 2018)

About 16 years ago a red headed girlfriend put her finger up my bum. I didn’t like it.


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## slowmotion (5 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> About 16 years ago a red headed girlfriend put her finger up my bum. I didn’t like it.


The lady in question was a brunette. I can't imagine that her fingers were very large, judging by her slight frame....but I didn't like it either. Maybe it's just a problem with my bum. Who knows?


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## slowmotion (6 Aug 2018)

She faintly tried to dissuade me from having the minor procedure, but, with five friends with the same possible condition, I thought it might be a good idea to go for broke. She asked me to roll into a ball and face the wall next to the medical couch. I imagine she was snapping on the latex gloves and getting the KY out.
She then asked me to get up and remove my jeans and pants and resume the same foetal position. Having somebody poking at your anal sphincter isn't ideal really, unless you like them a lot. I guess that I wasn't entirely receptive. "Try and relax" she said, before ramming a digit quite violently in there and fiddling about.

It's not quite my cup of tea really. Anyway, go and do it you silly weedy blokes. It might just save your life.


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## slowmotion (6 Aug 2018)

Thanks for all your posts. I think we got to the bottom of the matter.


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## classic33 (6 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Thanks for all your posts.* I think we got to the bottom of the matter.*


Someone did.


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## Kernow_T (6 Aug 2018)

With me approaching 40 and my uncle being recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, when I was in the doctors a cpl weeks ago (wife books us in every cpl years for a 'mole check') I asked the doctor for a finger up the bum and was rejected. Maybe it was because I did a 'praying' gesture and said "please please please" but (joking aside) surely, despite us confirming I had no symptoms as such (I am approaching 40), it might have been a sensible thing to do as a matter of course? She basically said "give it a few years."


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## Drago (6 Aug 2018)

Kernow_T said:


> With me approaching 40 and my uncle being recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, when I was in the doctors a cpl weeks ago (wife books us in every cpl years for a 'mole check') I asked the doctor for a finger up the bum and was rejected. Maybe it was because I did a 'praying' gesture and said "please please please" but (joking aside) surely, despite us confirming I had no symptoms as such (I am approaching 40), it might have been a sensible thing to do as a matter of course? She basically said "give it a few years."



She may have been more accommodating if you didn't keep farting.


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## Globalti (6 Aug 2018)

Can we just get this sorted?

Prostate = male gland.

Prostrate = lying flat.


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## stephec (6 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> About 16 years ago a red headed girlfriend put her finger up my bum. I didn’t like it.


What's wrong with red hair?


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## cisamcgu (6 Aug 2018)

I had it about a year ago - didn't think anything of it really, lay on the bed, turned to the wall, she put on a glove and 10 seconds later it was over, nothing at all to worry about - don't really know why it creates such stress in people


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## Drago (6 Aug 2018)

I think we should draw a ring round this conversation, and clench it to a close.


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## stephec (6 Aug 2018)

Drago said:


> I think we should draw a ring round this conversation, and clench it to a close.


Nip it in the bud?


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## Threevok (6 Aug 2018)

Far be it from me to point the finger, but enough of the puns please


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## GM (6 Aug 2018)

@slowmotion I could write a book about my experiences, next time we have a beer I'll tell all


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## jefmcg (6 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> She faintly tried to dissuade me from having the minor procedure, but, with five friends with the same possible condition, I thought it might be a good idea to go for broke.





Kernow_T said:


> surely, despite us confirming I had no symptoms as such (I am approaching 40), it might have been a sensible thing to do as a matter of course?



it's not as simple as you think. It seems commonsense that we should do screening tests. But screening tests (which is what SM had and KT was denied) are not risk free. There will be false positives, and the investigations and treatment of prostate cancer can do some harm. So in a young population, the number of men harmed by being treated for a disease they turn out not to have may be higher than the number saved by having their cancer diagnosed sooner. A lot of statistical work is done to optimise the age where screening is of the most value to a cohort (of course the cost of screening vs the cost of treatment also factor in).

For example, people can die during a colonoscopy, so routinely using that to screen for bowel cancer on symptom less young people could easily increase rather than decrease deaths.

Another interesting one I have heard of (and this is from memory, but I think the numbers are right) is that test you see on military movies, where they grab the testicles and ask you to cough. Apparently that is looking for "silent" hernias. Left untreated, about 1 in 100 will cause a problem. But if you have surgery to repair it, something goes wrong in 10% of the cases. So the test may make sense to exclude someone from the military, but has no value done for diagnostic reasons. I don't - for obvious reasons - know if this test is done these days.


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Aug 2018)

[QUOTE 5338303, member: 21629"]Use this + warm water:

View attachment 422772


[/QUOTE]

Do you use it like a space hopper?


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## raleighnut (6 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> it's not as simple as you think. It seems commonsense that we should do screening tests. But screening tests (which is what SM had and KT was denied) are not risk free. There will be false positives, and the investigations and treatment of prostate cancer can do some harm. So in a young population, the number of men harmed by being treated for a disease they turn out not to have may be higher than the number saved by having their cancer diagnosed sooner. A lot of statistical work is done to optimise the age where screening is of the most value to a cohort (of course the cost of screening vs the cost of treatment also factor in).
> 
> For example, people can die during a colonoscopy, so routinely using that to screen for bowel cancer on symptom less young people could easily increase rather than decrease deaths.
> 
> Another interesting one I have heard of (and this is from memory, but I think the numbers are right) is that test you see on military movies, where they grab the testicles and ask you to cough. Apparently that is looking for "silent" hernias. Left untreated, about 1 in 100 will cause a problem. But if you have surgery to repair it, something goes wrong in 10% of the cases. So the test may make sense to exclude someone from the military, but has no value done for diagnostic reasons. I don't - for obvious reasons - know if this test is done these days.


Yep I was 'offered' a colonoscopy last year and declined for that very reason (didn't much fancy the 'Self Administered Enema' either to be honest)


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## Fnaar (6 Aug 2018)

I was offered a coffee enema once. I declined and ordered a straightforward latte.


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> I was offered a coffee enema once. I declined and ordered a straightforward latte.




For some reason (which I was reluctant to seek) an old colleague of mine was fond of saying, "One up the bum - no harm done."


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## PK99 (6 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> it's not as simple as you think. It seems commonsense that we should do screening tests. .



Case in point is the PSA test, even its "inventor" disowned it as a diagnostic tool.

I was discussing options with my GP just this morning. In his words, it is "snapshot and video". Tracking an individuals PSA level and observing changes gives useful information (Video). A one off PSA test (I gave a blood sample this morning) give very little useful information (Snapshot)

From the NHS website:

*How accurate is the PSA test?*
_About 15 out of every 100 men with a normal PSA level have prostate cancer. About 75 out of every 100 men with a raised PSA level do not have prostate cancer._

*Pros and cons of the PSA test*
_Pros:
* it may reassure you if the test result is normal_

_it can find early signs of cancer, meaning you can get treated early_
_PSA testing may reduce your risk of dying if you do have cancer_
_Cons:_

_it can miss cancer and provide false reassurance_
_it may lead to unnecessary worry and medical tests when there's no cancer_
_it cannot tell the difference between slow-growing and fast-growing cancers_
_it may make you worry by finding a slow-growing cancer that may never cause any problems_


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## Drago (6 Aug 2018)

This thread is brilliant.. What a crack!


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## Milzy (6 Aug 2018)

No wonder Reg left


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## derrick (6 Aug 2018)

Had a camera up me bum two weeks ago, got the all clear 2 days later, Now i have to have it done every three years, Not as bad as it sounds although all the doctors and nurses involved were all female, but they were all very pleasant, they cut away three polyps, but not cancerous.looking forward to the next time.


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## Dave 123 (6 Aug 2018)

Milzy said:


> About 16 years ago a red headed girlfriend put her finger up my bum. I didn’t like it.



Did she do it gingerly?


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## slowmotion (6 Aug 2018)

Dave 123 said:


> Did she do it gingerly?


Awesome!


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## GlasgowFinn (6 Aug 2018)

Dave Barry: A journey into my colon — and yours


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## raleighnut (6 Aug 2018)

GlasgowFinn said:


> Dave Barry: A journey into my colon — and yours


I wonder if that's the American version of agent 'Picolax'



raleighnut said:


> I thought you meant this gem,



Couldn't find the original but expand the quote


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## raleighnut (6 Aug 2018)

the_craig said:


> You have reminded of the epic "Agent Picolax" thread that was posted on some gym thread many moons ago. It is a long read but enjoy...
> 
> Author: blu-tone
> Date: 18/07/07 07:47
> ...


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## GM (6 Aug 2018)

derrick said:


> Had a camera up me bum two weeks ago, got the all clear 2 days later, Now i have to have it done every three years, Not as bad as it sounds although all the doctors and nurses involved were all female, but they were all very pleasant, they cut away three polyps, but not cancerous.looking forward to the next time.





Same as me, was it UCH or Chase Farm? I've got my forth 3 year session in October. It's a bit sore on the saddle the following day!


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## derrick (6 Aug 2018)

GM said:


> Same as me, was it UCH or Chase Farm? I've got my forth 3 year session in October. It's a bit sore on the saddle the following day!


UCH, The worst part of it was the drinking of the clear you out fluid the day before, foul stuff but does work.


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## OneArmedBandit (6 Aug 2018)

Working on a Urology ward this is routine for me, obviously more men then women but you get everything.

All I can say is a DRE is never going to be the most pleasant experience (except one patient who enjoyed them a bit too much) but please don't put them off - they are really really good as a diagnostic tool.

If you work in this "area" you have seen absolutely everything and trust me, for us it is no shock to see another bottom or indeed anything else down there. The overwhelming reaction I get is they couldn't believe how quick and painless it was after building up to it in their heads.

The only thing we find interesting is sex toy related injuries and amputated penises. Otherwise roll over please, this is going to feel a little cold.


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## Dave 123 (6 Aug 2018)

@OneArmedBandit 
You need to elaborate on those last 2 lines.


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## PK99 (6 Aug 2018)

OneArmedBandit said:


> Working on a Urology ward this is routine for me, obviously more men then women but you get everything.
> 
> All I can say is a DRE is never going to be the most pleasant experience (except one patient who enjoyed them a bit too much) but please don't put them off - they are really really good as a diagnostic tool.
> .



My reading suggests that DRE by a Urologist is a useful tool, but DRE by GP's is debatable because of lack of specific skills.

Any view on that?


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## Fnaar (6 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> Seeing as *the weird injunction against women taking part in this *has been breached now, it's worth reminding people that anyone, male or female, who has symptoms that could suggest bowel cancer will be given a digital rectal examination, and DREs are often routine during pregnancy as well - just in case anyone thinks this is only to do with prostates. And I don't know about anyone else, but I can't help feeling that *GPs are busy enough as it is without being pressured into wasting time examining people who don't have any symptoms* and *claim not to want to be examined at all really. There's something odd about all this, isn't there?*


*Totally agree with you on the green bit, it's very true.*
*But I think some of the context to this thread is the well-documented fact that men are far less likely to seek treatment from a GP for ailments (real or imagined) than women. And that prostate cancer deaths now outnumber breast cancer deaths, and that funding for research in both areas is very different (it isn't, of course, a competition.) The likelihood of NOT seeking treatment is most likely cultural: it is still very much ingrained in many cultures for men not to show weakness; NOT going to the doc is perceived as a strength, by many (wrongly). Possibly not so odd, I'd suggest. Also, some of the thread adopts a humorous approach, which, to me, reflects the male response to going to the GP, as mentioned above, and also a certain type of possibly outdated humour (my own contribution included) which might be seen to allude to not liking having anything up your bottom.*
*I don't get what you mean by the red bit.*


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## jefmcg (6 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> I don't get what you mean by the red bit.





slowmotion said:


> OK ,OK, a lot of female posters may say that a whole tribe of medics live in their reproductive organs, men are pathetic etc etc, but I'm interested in what men might say.


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## Fnaar (6 Aug 2018)

@jefmcg OK, I see your point, but if I read things correctly the reason for the OP was to gauge opinion about middle-aged men's approaches to _prostate _examinations (the approach being necessarily _prostrate_) , therefore making it a guy-thing (although I of course understand that women undergo similarly 'invasive' examinations/treatment, and far more frequently in most cases than most men. I think it was just meant to be a thread asking about blokes' reactions to having a prostate exam.


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## OneArmedBandit (6 Aug 2018)

PK99 said:


> My reading suggests that DRE by a Urologist is a useful tool, but DRE by GP's is debatable because of lack of specific skills.
> 
> Any view on that?


It will be better by someone with more experience just because it isn't a binary thing, with prostates for instance you are feeling for six different things.

However GPs are equivalent to consultants anyway. To be they just refer if there is any ambiguity so they are not significantly worse.


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## Fnaar (6 Aug 2018)

OneArmedBandit said:


> It will be better by someone with more experience just because it isn't a binary thing, with prostates for instance *you are feeling for six different things*.
> 
> However GPs are equivalent to consultants anyway. To be they just refer if there is any ambiguity so they are not significantly worse.


I've only got three, I think #worried  *slips a marigold on and heads to the bathroom


----------



## slowmotion (6 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> @jefmcg
> OK, I see your point, but if I read things correctly the reason for the OP was to gauge opinion about middle-aged men's approaches to prostate examinations (the approach being necessarily prostrate) , therefore making it a guy-thing (although I of course understand that women undergo similarly 'invasive' examinations/treatment, and far more freuently in most cases than most men. I think it was just meant to be a thread asking about blokes' reactions to having a prostate exam.


Yes, it was, but it doesn't matter. It was also a bit of routine mischief. I wanted to see how long it would take before someone couldn't resist coming out with "Aren't men pathetic?"


----------



## GM (6 Aug 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I hereby nominate this for 'Thread of the Month''.




I think it's thread of the rear!


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## jefmcg (6 Aug 2018)

OneArmedBandit said:


> However GPs are equivalent to consultants anyway. To be they just refer if there is any ambiguity so they are not significantly worse.


I cannot make head nor tail of this paragraph.

But - guessing what you are trying to say - you may be over estimating GPs skills. I saw two different GPs (in Australia, but still) who palpated my broken clavicle and assured me that it was healing well. I on the other hand thought the same broken end of bone was still sticking up and it hadn't knitted at all. Return to blighty for my x-ray, and I was right. If you can't tell the difference between the snapped end of a collarbone, and the bolus that forms if it's is healing correctly, I really doubt they will be able to differentiate between an normal and enlarged prostate (especially one that hasn't got large enough to cause any symptoms) unless they have a lot of practice.


----------



## Fnaar (6 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> I cannot make head nor tail of this paragraph.
> 
> But - guessing what you are trying to say - you may be over estimating GPs skills. I saw two different GPs (in Australia, but still) who palpated my broken clavicle and assured me that it was healing well. I on the other hand thought the same broken end of bone was still sticking up and it hadn't knitted at all. Return to blighty for my x-ray, and I was right. *If you can't tell the difference between the snapped end of a collarbone, and the bolus that forms if it's is healing correctly*, I really doubt they will be able to differentiate between an normal and enlarged prostate (especially one that hasn't got large enough to cause any symptoms) unless they have a lot of practice.


aka "arse from elbow"


----------



## slowmotion (7 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> I cannot make head nor tail of this paragraph.
> 
> But - guessing what you are trying to say - you may be over estimating GPs skills. I saw two different GPs (in Australia, but still) who palpated my broken clavicle and assured me that it was healing well. I on the other hand thought the same broken end of bone was still sticking up and it hadn't knitted at all. Return to blighty for my x-ray, and I was right. If you can't tell the difference between the snapped end of a collarbone, and the bolus that forms if it's is healing correctly, I really doubt they will be able to differentiate between an normal and enlarged prostate (especially one that hasn't got large enough to cause any symptoms) unless they have a lot of practice.


You probably won't get referred to a consultant until the GP is satisfied that there could be a problem. In my case, he asked about symptoms, and seemed quite keen to give me a PSA and urine test, and then for the locum to give me a DRE. The locum seemed happy with the state of my prostate. With luck, that's the end of it for now. As @Fnaar pointed out, prostate and breast cancer deaths have equal pegging. I don't see myself as a victim of Munchausen Syndrome.


----------



## Fnaar (7 Aug 2018)

slowmotion said:


> You probably won't get referred to a consultant until the GP is satisfied that their could be a problem. In my case, he asked about symptoms, and seemed quite keen to give me a PSA and urine test, and then for the locum to give me a DRE. The locum seemed happy with the state of my prostate. With luck, that's the end of it for now. As @Fnaar pointed out, prostate and breast cancer deaths have equal pegging. *I don't see myself as a victim of Munchausen Syndrome*.


Shall I do that on your behalf (by proxy, as it were)


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## slowmotion (7 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> Shall I do that on your behalf (by proxy, as it were)


Oh, go on then! I wouldn't want to spoil your fun.


----------



## Nigeyy (7 Aug 2018)

Well every time I go in for an annual physical. Let's be frank here, it's not pleasant, but it isn't that bad either and the alternative is far worse. The worst bit is definitely the thought of having it done, possible embarrassment, etc rather than the actual. If you are afraid or haven't had it done for those reasons, really, just go for it.

This thread is quite timely; I have to get a colonoscopy later this week. Having had it done, again the worst part is the anticipation rather than the actual. And again, don't put it off, it really isn't worth it!


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## Accy cyclist (7 Aug 2018)

I haven't looked at any of the posts on here as i'm very squeamish about things like what i think it's about. I'd like to ask a question though. Have any females answered yes to the question?


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## Drago (7 Aug 2018)

GM said:


> I think it's thread of the rear!



Well, he's made a fair fist of it.


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> Yes, that was the point I was making. Symptoms that could be bowel cancer and other conditions often mean a rectal examination, it's not just a man thing.
> Just for the record, I have experienced a DRE, more than once, and I have not said men or anyone else is 'pathetic'. I just think adults sniggering about botties in Cafe, under the guise of health concerns, is a bit weird.



One of the reasons so many men do die of Prostate cancer is that many ignore the symptoms for fear or squeamishness about the DRE test (including a cycling club colleague who left it too long) - anything that allows guys to talk about and diffuse the stigma is a good thing.


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## OneArmedBandit (7 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> I cannot make head nor tail of this paragraph.
> 
> But - guessing what you are trying to say - you may be over estimating GPs skills. I saw two different GPs (in Australia, but still) who palpated my broken clavicle and assured me that it was healing well. I on the other hand thought the same broken end of bone was still sticking up and it hadn't knitted at all. Return to blighty for my x-ray, and I was right. If you can't tell the difference between the snapped end of a collarbone, and the bolus that forms if it's is healing correctly, I really doubt they will be able to differentiate between an normal and enlarged prostate (especially one that hasn't got large enough to cause any symptoms) unless they have a lot of practice.


Remember they won't normally be examining it unless someone has a raised Gleason score. Also they issue foam boards to "try" to people know what they are feeling for.

Of course GPs are far from perfect, but they should have a good idea. With considerable pressure on our services we would not normally accept a referral based on symptoms alone because it would simply involve cancelling someone else because as soon as it is possible cancer they go on two week wait. However each case is judged on clinical merit.


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> Yes, and no one is advising people to ignore symptoms. The same applies to abnormal bowel symptoms, which people ignore because of the silly attitude to examinations that some people have demonstrated in this thread. It's a great idea for everyone to educate themselves about what the symptoms of these conditions are. *What is not a good idea, if one has no symptoms at all, is to keep pestering the GP to waste time doing unnecessary examinations.*



A friend was completely symptom-free, a friend of his developed prostate cancer. My friend went to his GP and asked for the DRE. A few weeks later he had prostate surgery.

By the way, would you tell a symptom-free woman she did not need to go for routine mammograms? Most of the people I know with breast cancer were symptom-free and it was picked up on a routine scan.


----------



## Salar (7 Aug 2018)

I was diagnosed with prostate cancer a few years ago. 

No symptoms really, but my doctor carries out PSA tests on all men over 50 off his own back during routine annual checkups, he doesn't have to, but he does.

Fortunately he picked my cancer up and I received treatment. I'm eternally grateful to him, who knows what state I would be in now?

Anyway my first examination was carried out by a 6 foot plus Maori who wouldn't have been out of place in the All Blacks with fingers like sausages.
I had a few more after that, they weren't so bad as the consultant had little hands. 

The biopsy was probably the worst, but a few sessions of discomfort compared to the possible alternative is a no brainer.

As said above screening can provide wayward results and anxiety, but I'm glad I was checked out.

Progress is being made regarding less intrusive examination methods, so the finger test may be obsolete in a few years.


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

Profpointy said:


> Think you may have missed TMN's post earlier. It appears that routine prostate screening does more harm than good as false positives result in needless worry, and surgery - and any surgery has the potential to go wrong. Also for some cases of actual prostate cancer surgery is not helpful as the thing is so slow progressing and would only kill the patient by the time they are 130, so better left alone.
> It also has false negatives which result in complacency in those who would benefit from intervention. Thus screening "just in case" is actually harmfull. Targetted screening of men who are deemed higher risk is a different question
> 
> Breast cancer screening on the other had has been shown to have benefit ao it is encouraged. As is the camera up the arse thing for 55+ men and women looking for bowel cancer.
> ...



I'm confused. You seem to be referencing my post upthread about PSA testing.


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

Profpointy said:


> Yes that too. Have updated the literature review in my post



This, by the guy who developed the PSA test, sayng in terms that PSA testing should NOT be used as a screening tool.


http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2010/...-public-health-disaster-why-this-is-good-new/

*As I’ve been trying to make clear for many years now, P.S.A. testing can’t detect prostate cancer and, more important, it can’t distinguish between the two types of prostate cancer — the one that will kill you and the one that won’t.* “

Moreover, the benefits of treatment are uncertain. Last year, The _New England Journal of Medicine _published results from the two largest studies of the screening procedure, one in Europe and one in the United States. The results from the American study that *over a period of 7 to 10 years, screening did not reduce the death rate in men 55 and over*. The European study showed a small decline in death rates, but also found *that 48 men would need to be treated to save one life. “That’s 47 men who, in all likelihood, can no longer function sexually or stay out of the bathroom for long*,” Albin adds, referring to the fact that treatments can lead to long-term incontinence and/or impotence.


----------



## Salar (7 Aug 2018)

He may well be the expert, but all I can say is I'm glad I had PSA tests and a biopsy as may not be typing this today.


----------



## Profpointy (7 Aug 2018)

PK99 said:


> I'm confused. You seem to be referencing my post upthread about PSA testing.



Ah, re-read. Looks like I'm suggesting you've not read your own post - whilst forgetting to read it 

(edit) deleted my earlier post now as it really didn't make sense in the context of being a reply


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

Salar said:


> He may well be the expert, but all I can say is I'm glad I had PSA tests and a biopsy as may not be typing this today.



From the same article.
*
Inevitably, the posts drew some irate responses from readers* who were sure that they, their husband, or their uncle’s life had been saved by PSA testing. The truth is that once a patient is treated for early-stage prostate cancer there is usually no way of knowing whether he would have been one of the very few who might have died of the disease if he had not been treated– or one of the many who would have died of something else, long before the diseases caused problems. If they hadn’t been tested, those men would never have known that they had prostate cancer. But once treated, few want to admit that the treatment might have been unnecessary, particularly if they wind up coping with life-changing side-effects. Human beings will do anything to avoid regret.


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## jefmcg (7 Aug 2018)

Yes. To assess screening tests, we need to do proper population studies, with a randomised group who are screened and one that is not, then the outcomes (incontinence, ED, death from all causes, surgeries etc) compared for both groups.

This stuff isn't simple: a treatment that reduces deaths by one cause can increase it equally by another.

So, more money to find out the best screening regimes, which will actually improve outcomes across the population.

<google>The leading cancers are lung, bowel, prostate, breast. The fact that the last two have swapped is significant as indicating the value of research and awareness. 

Breast cancer research has a high profile and high success. Prostate and testicular are catching up (think Movember), though there is much more to be done. The main cause of lung cancer are well understood (though 20% or so never smoked, and must be really angry). The hard one to make sexy, but where we could do the most good, is bowel cancer.

But how do we get people to buy brown ribbons?


----------



## Profpointy (7 Aug 2018)

At the risk of being serious for a moment, I recently had the camera up the arse screening for bowel cancer. Apparently, it's now recommended as a matter of course for my age group ans I understood this to be nationwide rather than a trial. Presumably the stats do support it being of value compared with the risk. Anyhow, it was merely uncomfortable for a few minutes rather than painfull, so not really worse than, say, a tooth filling. The staff took a fair bit of trouble to make an undignified rigmarole as comfortable and unembarassing as possible so it was really no bother. Even the self administered enema thing just results in a single impressive bog visit then leave it an hour before going in. Lots of hanging around and getting ready, but the procedure itself no big deal so there's no embarrasment or fear reason for not getting it done if you get the letter. I'm assuming they've done the risk reward assessment correctly, else the NHS would presumably not be spending the money.


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## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

Profpointy said:


> . I'm assuming they've done the risk reward assessment correctly, else the NHS would presumably not be spending the money.



I would not be overly confident on that as a general rule for the NHS. Bowel cancer screening. Yes. Grommets in kids ears to keep surgeons busy when tonsillectomies went out of vogue - I'm not so sure. And as for homeopathy...


----------



## Julia9054 (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> that people will go away happy when they feel they have had some sort of ... <ahem> ... _intervention_.


As someone with hypochondriac tendences, i understand that. Despite being someone with a love of statistics, evidence and a good understanding of calculating risk!


----------



## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> . It's a fascinating aspect of the doctor/patient relationship - that people will go away happy when they feel they have had some sort of ... <ahem> ... _intervention_.



And that is one of the reasons the NHS spend as much as it does on antibiotics for routine viral chest infections.


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## Tim Hall (7 Aug 2018)

What this thread needs is someone with a knowledge of NHS commissioning procedures.


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## Salty seadog (7 Aug 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> What this thread needs is someone with a knowledge of NHS commissioning procedures.




Just a few days earlier and all that could have been.


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## Fnaar (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYjtxHHjZ00



I watched that just last week


----------



## Fnaar (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> There's nothing to it really, but it's, well, terrifying. HAHAHA.


Have you seen the 2010 adaptation?


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Aug 2018)

I haven't but I guess it is something from your sixties ownwards?


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> If we're back to talking rectal examinations, no not at all.



So this is not a routine thing once you have reached a certain age but more the case if you present with symptoms your GP recognises?


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## PK99 (7 Aug 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I haven't but I guess it is something from your sixties ownwards?


Age related risk


https://417n6askfdo3na0t04com9tv-wp...ads/2016/07/900x400-EDU-2017-BirthToDeath.jpg


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## Dave7 (8 Aug 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> So this is not a routine thing once you have reached a certain age but more the case if you present with symptoms your GP recognises?


Or.....if you really fancy the idea and have an understanding Doctor you could always ask


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## Accy cyclist (8 Aug 2018)

Does it count if you stick your own up there,or does it have to be someone else's?


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## slowmotion (8 Aug 2018)

User13710 said:


> Yes, and no one is advising people to ignore symptoms. The same applies to abnormal bowel symptoms, which people ignore because of the silly attitude to examinations that some people have demonstrated in this thread. It's a great idea for everyone to educate themselves about what the symptoms of these conditions are. What is not a good idea, _if one has no symptoms at all_, is to keep pestering the GP to waste time doing unnecessary examinations.


You seem to have an intimate knowledge of my medical history and what I have told my GP.


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## glasgowcyclist (8 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does it count if you stick your own up there,or does it have to be someone else's?



Which would you prefer?


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## Fnaar (8 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does it count if you stick your own up there,or does it have to be someone else's?


That's icky, Accy


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## PK99 (8 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> That's icky, Accy



That's Accy, icky.


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## numbnuts (8 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does it count if you stick your own up there,or does it have to be someone else's?


Well if you trying to push a suppository up there it should count, just don't lick your fingers afterwards


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## glasgowcyclist (8 Aug 2018)

numbnuts said:


> just don't lick your fingers afterwards



Or chop chillies just before...


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## Dave7 (8 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Does it count if you stick your own up there,or does it have to be someone else's?


There is a local byelaw that prevents any male sticking their own finger up their own bum while residing in Lytham St Annes.


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## Salty seadog (8 Aug 2018)

Dave7 said:


> There is a local byelaw that prevents any male sticking their own finger up their own bum while residing in Lytham St Annes.



You want the odd factoid thread...


----------



## Threevok (10 Aug 2018)

Incidently - good news on the BC front

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45143895

as least for England that is - with everyone over 60 getting a FIT kit in the autumn


----------



## postman (10 Aug 2018)

Threevok said:


> Incidently - good news on the BC front
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45143895
> 
> as least for England that is - with everyone over 60 getting a FIT kit in the autumn




Already on that list.


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## Accy cyclist (10 Aug 2018)

Threevok said:


> Incidently - good news on the BC front
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45143895
> 
> as least for England that is - with everyone over 60 getting a FIT kit in the autumn


Over 50 more like. Hey,with me being 57 does that mean they'll be sending me 6 years of back dated test kits?


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## stephec (10 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Over 50 more like. Hey,with me being 57 does that mean they'll be sending me 6 years of back dated test kits?


I'm sure you'll make a good fist of it if they do.


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## Accy cyclist (10 Aug 2018)

stephec said:


> I'm sure you'll make a good fist of it if they do.


Fist?! As in up the jacksy? I could send one of my mutt's samples in one of the bags. They might contact me saying there's nothing to worry about on the cancer front,but we think you might have distemper.


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## stephec (10 Aug 2018)

Accy cyclist said:


> Fist?! As in up the jacksy? I could send one of my mutt's samples in one of the bags. They might contact me saying there's nothing to worry about on the cancer front,but we think you might have distemper.


I'd think twice about that, you might not be allowed on the furniture again.


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## jefmcg (12 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> That's icky, Accy


That actually answers my question that Accys thread begged: why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. I am struck the the story of Chrissie Amphlet, who found something during breast self examination. A mammogram was clean, but she knew what her breasts felt like and was convinced something was wrong. She insisted on a biopsy. And, sadly, she was right. The cancer eventually killed her. I think men could get as familiar with their own prostates as she was with her breasts.

But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.


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## stephec (12 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> That actually answers my question that Accys thread begged: why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. I am struck the the story of Chrissie Amphlet, who found something during breast self examination. A mammogram was clean, but she knew what her breasts felt like and was convinced something was wrong. She insisted on a biopsy. And, sadly, she was right. The cancer eventually killed her. I think men could get as familiar with their own prostates as she was with her breasts.
> 
> But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.


Could always play doctors and nurses and get the wife/gf to do it?


----------



## PK99 (12 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> That actually answers my question that Accys thread begged: why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. I am struck the the story of Chrissie Amphlet, who found something during breast self examination. A mammogram was clean, but she knew what her breasts felt like and was convinced something was wrong. She insisted on a biopsy. And, sadly, she was right. The cancer eventually killed her. I think men could get as familiar with their own prostates as she was with her breasts.
> 
> But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.



This may help answer your question

https://www.prostate-massage-and-health.com/prostate-self-exam.html#.W3A7oPZFyUk


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## Old jon (12 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. . . . . I think men could get . . . familiar with their prostates.
> 
> But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.



That is a thought! I am ignorant of the details, and I wonder just how flexible one's arm and hand might need to be for reliable comparisons, month by month. Speaking ( OK writing ) as someone who cannot detect his own pulse I guess me and my prostate will remain strangers . . .

Edited
Ah! Thank you
@PK99


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## Fnaar (12 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> That actually answers my question that Accys thread begged: why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. I am struck the the story of Chrissie Amphlet, who found something during breast self examination. A mammogram was clean, but she knew what her breasts felt like and was convinced something was wrong. She insisted on a biopsy. And, sadly, she was right. The cancer eventually killed her. I think men could get as familiar with their own prostates as she was with her breasts.
> 
> But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.


Well, as @PK99 's link suggests, it is difficult/not possible, but I take the point that men could/should be aware/encouraged to be more aware of symptoms of both prostate and testicular cancer (the latter being easier to self-examine for).
I don't have periods, so I can't do it after those, but men _can _adopt an approach to doing things regularly. We can also be aware of the tendency to ignore symptoms, which many men do, for whatever reason.
My 'that's icky, accy' comment was simply meant to be a quip. I'm aware that both women and men (and all things in-between) have 'icky' personal issues to deal with. They're just a bit different from each other. 

I'm reminded of something I learnt at school, many years ago, in a biology lesson. It was something like: there are only 4 distinct differences between men and women. Only women can gestate, lactate and menstruate. Only men can impregnate. In all other characteristics, both physical and psychological, there are crossovers. E.g. some women have hairier bodies/faces or are stronger than some men, but in general, men tend to be hairier/stronger (etc) Some men have larger breasts (etc) than some women, but in general, women tend to have larger ones.


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## raleighnut (12 Aug 2018)

stephec said:


> Could always play doctors and nurses and get the wife/gf to do it?


----------



## PK99 (12 Aug 2018)

Fnaar said:


> I'm reminded of something I learnt at school, many years ago, in a biology lesson. It was something like: there are only 4 distinct differences between men and women. Only women can gestate, lactate and menstruate. Only men can impregnate. *In all other characteristics, both physical and psychological, there are crossovers*. E.g. some women have hairier bodies/faces or are stronger than some men, but in general, men tend to be hairier/stronger (etc) Some men have larger breasts (etc) than some women, but in general, women tend to have larger ones.



Not so much crossovers (that seems to imply that certain characteristics are inherently gender-specific and abnormal if found in the other gender) rather, there are two overlapping/shifted normal distributions for each characteristic. Weight, body hair, breast size etc. A man with very little body hair is not abnormal, he just sits at one end of the male distribution, but will still have more body hair than most women. Ditto, at the other end of the normal distribution, are the bear-like creatures I sometimes see in the gym changing room!

Almost as an aside, the first ever person I knew directly who got breast cancer was a man.


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## Fnaar (12 Aug 2018)

PK99 said:


> Not so much crossovers (that seems to imply that certain characteristics are inherently gender-specific and abnormal if found in the other gender) rather, there are two overlapping/shifted normal distributions for each characteristic. Weight, body hair, breast size etc. A man with very little body hair is not abnormal, he just sits at one end of the male distribution, but will still have more body hair than most women. Ditto, at the other end of the normal distribution, are the bear-like creatures I sometimes see in the gym changing room!
> 
> Almost as an aside, the first ever person I knew directly who got breast cancer was a man.


That's kinda what I meant, there are only 4 distinct characeteristics, and all other things are tendencies


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## gbb (12 Aug 2018)

Just sent off my BC kit. 
Last time I had a finger up the bum I was around 21 (I'm now 60) . I'd just posted myself on a tree stake and was bleeding heavily from my penis (which thankfully wasn't injured itself,) I'd ruptured something internally. Nurse tried to do a rectal examination when I arrived at hospital (blues and twos not surprisingly) ...to be met with spurts of blood and agony from me .
Needless to say i hope my BC test kit goes well....ive had enough invasive interest down below to last a lifetime.


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## guitarpete247 (12 Aug 2018)

As for getting 'er indoors to try it. I showed her the diagram and her response was "Oh it's there" then changed the topic of the conversation.


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## Fnaar (12 Aug 2018)

guitarpete247 said:


> As for getting 'er indoors to try it. I showed her the diagram and her response was "Oh it's there" then changed the topic of the conversation.


I think it can be aptly demonstrated by asking the other person to try to locate the swarfega dispenser by putting their finger through the keyhole of the toolshed.


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## stephec (12 Aug 2018)

raleighnut said:


>


Don't knock it........


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## Accy cyclist (13 Aug 2018)

jefmcg said:


> That actually answers my question that Accys thread begged: why aren't men taught prostate self examination? If men regularly palpated their own prostates (once a month after your period ), then they would be very alert to changes. This would probably be better than a GP. I am struck the the story of Chrissie Amphlet, who found something during breast self examination. A mammogram was clean, but she knew what her breasts felt like and was convinced something was wrong. She insisted on a biopsy. And, sadly, she was right. The cancer eventually killed her. I think men could get as familiar with their own prostates as she was with her breasts.
> 
> But I guess asking people to stick their own finger up their bum is a step too far.



I'm gonna be brave here and talk about my phobia. I just hate anything to do with 'down below'. I have done since human biology lessons at school 40 odd years ago,when we were asked to dissect animals dangly bits,which to make it worse we had to acquire from a local butcher or slaughterhouse of our choice. We had to be tough in those days,so asking to skip these experiments was met with 'you are a big soft baby' mocking reply. I'd dread the lessons days before they were due. Once in the lesson i'd go white as a sheet and go into a cold sweat. So the thought of 'experimenting,examining or just talking about men's dangly bits put the fear of god into me! This is the first time i've actually mentioned my phobia, so that's a bit of a step forward isn't it? I have had my own finger up there. I do every time i shower or go for a number 2,for cleanliness reasons. The first time i felt my er hum that thing that begins with a P, I thought it was part of my colon or something like that,as i had a large hernia at the time,so i thought it was that popping out. I did 'man up' the other month and felt my P.I came over all dizzy and shakey. It felt ok as in not enlarged and so i left it at that.


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## slowmotion (6 Sep 2018)

Well, it's been a whole month of stuff since I posted. Thank you for your input. I think they pretty much echoed my fears. It's not that bad really. Get it done. Ignore the comments from those who think that men's health doesn't actually matter.


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## User6179 (6 Sep 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Thank you for your input



Is that what you said to the Doctor?


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Sep 2018)

And did he give you the thumbs up?


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## captain nemo1701 (6 Sep 2018)

I was in hospital last year for stomach surgery and this never came up. I recall Billy Connolly joking about it once he turned 50.

Frankly, no-one in their right mind should venture near my rear end without serious PPE, face mask etc..... Even I try to steer clear of it.


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## Dave7 (6 Sep 2018)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I was in hospital last year for stomach surgery and this never came up. I recall Billy Connolly joking about it once he turned 50.
> 
> Frankly, no-one in their right mind should venture near my rear end without serious PPE, face mask etc..... Even I try to steer clear of it.


That might come in handy if Russia look for an alternative to Novochoc


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## mickle (22 Nov 2018)

Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.


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## winjim (22 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.


Yikes.


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## fossyant (22 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.



Shoot, that's all you need after the 'other' C. Let's hope it's least aggressive. My Uncle has it, but as mid 70's it won't kill him, old age will.

I guess you'll be off the 'Testosterone' replacement ? That's my worry as I have to keep a close eye on my PSA levels (they have gone up since on T replacement) - gone from 1 or less to 2 last time.


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## fossyant (22 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.



I think you have to watch and wait - too many risks with surgery, and at your/my age. Thinking of you !!


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## slowmotion (22 Nov 2018)

All the very best @mickle.


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## classic33 (22 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.


The waiting, twiddlin your thumbs, everything comes to mind is worse. Best o'luck and hope everything works out for the better.

I still owe you for that drink you left to one side just short of two years ago.


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## Sillyoldman (22 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.



I sympathise with you Mickle having just gone down the same road you are on. My Gleason scores were higher putting me into the aggressive cancer club. Had been pretty aysymtomatic other than needing a couple of pees in the night. I had been having PSA test for the past 5 years and the last went up a little and that triggered alarm bells. Recently (few weeks ago) I had a prostatectomy and luckily the tumour had not breached the gland. Now recovering from the op and doing really well. Have had no issues. Went home after less than 2 days. It’s been quite amazing. 
I wish you all the best if you do have to take action (and also if you don’t of course).. all the best


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## raleighnut (23 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.


 Just what you don't want to hear.


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## mickle (23 Nov 2018)

*heart emojis*


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## winjim (23 Nov 2018)

Have you tried wiping it with an oily rag?


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## postman (23 Nov 2018)

MICKLE All the best from here.it was bad enough with just a swollen prostate,FINASTERIDE the pills i was on messed my head up.


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## postman (23 Nov 2018)

Just a bit of light relief poster SLOWMOTION posts finger up your bum,only on here only on here could the two go together.brilliant.


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## ianrauk (23 Nov 2018)

All the best Mickle


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## Salty seadog (23 Nov 2018)

Very treatable now, my uncle and dad have had the op succesfully. All the best Mickle.


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## Arjimlad (23 Nov 2018)

Best wishes @mickle - well done for getting it seen to & not ignoring the issue


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## guitarpete247 (23 Nov 2018)

Best wishes @mickle. I keep putting off going to docs. I'm 62 so should at least have check up. Do they call folks in? I've had 2 lots of poor sticks which came back clear but nothing suggesting finger up bum or other tests.


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## Threevok (23 Nov 2018)

X-Fingers and best wishes @mickle


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## mickle (23 Nov 2018)

Arjimlad said:


> Best wishes @mickle - well done for getting it seen to & not ignoring the issue



I had no symptoms. I've always had the bladder of a newt and frequent nighttime excursions, so no change there. Several weeks ago I asked my GP - as an aside - if (as a consequence of my double orchidectomy and testosterone replacement) there were any test(s) that I should be having. I've been largely left to my own devices by my GP. Then out of the blue I get asked to submit for a blood test, advised that my PSA levels were elevated. (How would they know? This is the first time they've looked at them) and on the conveyor to MRI and rectal biopsy.

So I'm not entirely sure what triggered this course of events, but it definitely wasn't me presenting with any issues. I am, thinking about it now, exceedingly happy with the diagnosis. You can never be 100% certain that you don't have prostate cancer. So knowing that I _do_ have it - and in the hands of a very competent urology department here in York. I've got potentially ten to fifteen years before I need to do anything about it (surgery/radiotherapy/whatever), and in the meantime they'll keep an active watch. 

My dad died of prostate cancer and my mum of lung cancer, both about 15 years ago. I've had cancer previously, so this doesn't come as a surprise. It has the sense of being inevitable. So when he told me, I was like: 'Oh yeah, there it is'. Also, by the time we get to my age lots of us have this sort of cancer and don't know it. So with this diagnosis I'm ahead of the game.

My advice. in addition to a regular bum finger, is to get your PSA levels checked regularly. A single measurement means nothing, but a series of numbers - taken every 4/6 months - will show up any changes.

Anyway, I'm good. Thanks for your kind messages.


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## classic33 (23 Nov 2018)

Good to hear you're happy with the way things ran their course, and you've the support there should you have need of it.

All the best from this point forward.


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## MikeG (23 Nov 2018)

I had my second physical examination last week, 4 years after the first. No issues found. The associated blood test just came back "normal, no action necessary", so I'll have a couple of years before revisiting the subject.


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## Dave7 (23 Nov 2018)

mickle said:


> Ive today been diagnosed with prostate cancer after weeks of bum fingers, PSA levels, MRI scans and a biopsy. I've a Gleason score of 3/3. It's the least aggressive type so they've suggested a watch and wait approach. Still getting my head around it.


Wishing you all the best. 
Nobody wants the big C calling but from my experience........once you know, you can face it head on as against the constant worry. I still crap myself before my 6 monthly camera but like me.....you will be in good hands.


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## Dave 123 (23 Nov 2018)

@mickle 
Someone close to me has just had their second bout of prostate cancer. He had a massive issue going on in another part of his life so he ignored it a bit too long... he has just finished his chemo and the good news is that his numbers are now right where they should be. So hopefully you’ll be in a good place.

I hope it goes well for you!


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## Drago (23 Nov 2018)

Sheet, bad ju ju Mickle. Here's for a speedy and full recovery matey.


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## fossyant (23 Nov 2018)

@mickle can I ask what your PSA was. Mine is done every year and was less than 1 before T replacement then has been up a little, but last test was 2. Now't to worry about, but Id not been on the bike within a week of last test. Its usually been on the bike just before my tests. At least my PSA, like ypurs is monitored. That said a raised PSA isnt an indicator of cancer. Its not an accurate test useless a trend is seen, and most blokes never get regular tests to get the data.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Nov 2018)

Wishing you good monitoring and any treatment outcomes.


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## mickle (23 Nov 2018)

fossyant said:


> @mickle can I ask what your PSA was.....



Yah, 4.75 and then 4.1 a month later. As you say, they're not useful numbers until you have enough over time to plot a graph and spot anomalies.


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## stephec (23 Nov 2018)

Threevok said:


> *X-Fingers *and best wishes @mickle



Let's hope that the doctor doesn't do that.


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## MrPie (4 Dec 2018)

Holy flipity flip - best wishes Mickle.

Just back from the doc and was expecting finger up the pooper, but nyope, thanfully barking up the wrong tree. He did have a good rummage around my plums tho.....epididymitis hangover from a couple of weeks ago + a recent lipoma discovery in my sack, apparently nothing to worry about thankfully.


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