# Physiotherapy on the NHS - what a joke!



## Globalti (1 Sep 2010)

Been pestering my GP for weeks now to get me some physio for my bakers' cysts. Eventually he caved in and so I had to go back a week later to collect a letter with a secret code then ring a number to make the booking. Okay, says the clerk, we will ring you back in exactly one week to verify your identity and make the appointment. Next week they ring back and announce that "We've done a triage and decided that physiotherapy would be appropriate for you!" WTF? Then she tells me the waiting list is 6 weeks long so I will get another call in a few weeks with an appointment!

This is a joke. I think I'm going to see Personnel about getting seen through BUPA.

What's the idea with all the secrecy?


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## e-rider (1 Sep 2010)

I think I also waited 6 weeks for NHS physio - the worrying thing is the wait is the best part of the service!!! 

Although, I did see a private physio last year and for £100 they kindly made my problem 10 times worse!


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## Globalti (1 Sep 2010)

I can have 30 minutes with a physio up the road any time for £20 but I don't have much faith in his ability, TBH.


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## ChrisKH (1 Sep 2010)

Yes, Mrs. KH had to wait six weeks for physio after breaking her ankle but for the first four sessions the guy couldn't manipulate her ankle as he didn't have copies of the x-ray (or access thereto, as they're all digital these days). She is coming to the end of her sessions, still can't walk after seven months a) without a stick and b) without her ankle puffing up like Mr. Puffy of Puffyland after walking 200 yards. Physio thinks there might be something else wrong with it. No sh*t Sherlock.


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## montage (1 Sep 2010)

NHS is just a joke in general.
Apologies to anybody who works in the NHS


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## Amanda P (1 Sep 2010)

When I broke my wrist, I saw an excellent NHS physio. He talked a lot more sense (and had probably a lot more experience) than any of the medics who looked at it or treated it.

There's at least one good NHS physio... if he still works there.


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## Globalti (1 Sep 2010)

My recent experience of the NHS has been outstanding and as I ride with a gastroenterologist I now have some appreciation of how hard specialists are being made to work for the benefit of the public. My pal works a long day and is on duty every fourth weekend when he will see as many as 45 patients in a typical shift. 

I am just hoping I will be seen by an NHS physio who is as good a physio as my cycling buddy is a gastroenterologist!


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## cookiemonster (1 Sep 2010)

I had to wait 4 weeks for NHS Physio treatment when I damaged my left hip and lower back due to Thai Boxing.

In defence of the NHS, the treatment I got was superb and now back training again, albeit not competing anymore.


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## Tim Bennet. (1 Sep 2010)

There are no 'targets' for waiting times for physios. Therefore there is no 'come back' for Health Authorities if they cut these services in order to funnel money to other areas where performance targets have to be met. 

As a result the NHS physio service is in tatters and it's almost impossible for recently qualified physios to get jobs with the NHS despite the colleges only producing the numbers that the NHS agreed it needed.

The private physio market is booming and most middle class fairly affluent types (including most politicians) don't see a problem of getting the service they require as and when necessary at only £35 a session. So no real complaining or letters to the Daily Mail.


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## ChrisKH (1 Sep 2010)

Globalti said:


> My recent experience of the NHS has been outstanding and as I ride with a gastroenterologist I now have some appreciation of how hard specialists are being made to work for the benefit of the public. My pal works a long day and is on duty every fourth weekend when he will see as many as 45 patients in a typical shift.
> 
> I am just hoping I will be seen by an NHS physio who is as good a physio as my cycling buddy is a gastroenterologist!




My gastroenterologist is also a cyclist and good egg. The physio problem is a funding issue as much as a quality issue in my (wife's) case. It has taken 7 months to get to a position where the physio will refer her back to the consultant as the sessions are too infrequent and off site/remote from the original treatment/consultant which has delayed her post treatment diagnosis of a non-fracture related problem being to blame for her ankle's ability to heal.


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## automatic_jon (1 Sep 2010)

The National Health is a fantastic service, terribly organised.


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## benborp (1 Sep 2010)

I was confronted by a nine month wait for physio once. The appointment never materialised, although by that stage I'd gone down a rather convoluted route of diagnosis abroad (where I was offered surgery the following week if I could lay my hands on 10,000 euro), re-presenting myself to GP with report and translation ("storm in a teacup" says GP), second opinion "you're not in bad shape for a thirty year old, these things happen and you have to accept them", private physio in order to gain access to private orthopaedic consultant to issue report back to GP, "oops, sorry!", referral to NHS surgeon "Why did you wait so long before coming to me? We open you up, we take your collar bone, we put it in the bin." Since then I've been dependant on private physio to maintain function in that shoulder. It's a battle that I'm losing and five years on I've just been referred back to my surgeon. Funnily enough the current deterioration in that shoulder probably stems from my digestive problems - the last two years have been a steady routine at the outpatient gastroenterology clinic of referral - three month wait - consultation and request for procedure or tests - three month wait - test or procedure which generates appointment - three month wait - more tests or procedures - three month etc...

Unfortunately, the disciplines that cover my problems are terribly oversubscribed and I live in an area where the NHS is already under enormous pressure - any non-urgent outpatient appointment will be in three months time. The trouble is that I'm aware that in my case as more time goes by the worse I get and the more resources I use.


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## mangaman (2 Sep 2010)

Globalti said:


> I can have 30 minutes with a physio up the road any time for £20 but I don't have much faith in his ability, TBH.



I can't quite see your point Globalti?

You can see a private physio any time - but you don't have much faith in their ability

Or wait for an NHS physio.

Do you have more faith in the NHS physio? In which case you'll have to wait behind NHS patients that need physio for debilitating arthritis/ acute strokes / hip fractures etc which I suspect take priority over your problem.

I would suggest - as an NHS employee myself - to go to the best physio for your problem. 

This is likely to be private (ie a sports injury specialist physio) - you may need to ask around at your cycling club or wherever.

NHS physio for sports injuries is virtually non-existant in my experience.

You'll have to pay - but that is healthcare - it's like dentistry / optometry.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2010)

In my second paragraph I expressed the hope that the NHS physio I eventually see will be a good one. There is a bloke down the road from me who charges me £20 for half an hour but in February I saw him three times for back pain and he gave me no relief at all. I then saw a physio during a business trip to South Africa and she manipulated my back in ways I never thought possible; I walked out free of pain and haven't had a moment of pain since then. Hence I don't rate my local guy very much.


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## mik (2 Sep 2010)

Where i live ( Hyndburn) the NHS runs a drop in centre for physiotherapy. Basically what happens is you go to your GP with a problem (sciatica in my case.. see previous self pitying posts ) and rather than refer you onto ( for want of a better phrase) the official waiting list for treatment he advises you of the times you can simply go to a medical centre which offers treatment without the need of a formal referal.

I was seen within 30 minutes of arrival and since then have received acupuncture, general physiotherapy treatment with help and advice on home excercises. Have also received an epidural injection ( ah such sweet relief ) and am going for a full MRI scan this morning.

I am also booked in for a series of "back building" workshops which include stationary bike work and treadmill movement as well as general physiotherapy.

Throughout I have been treated with utmost civility and given the impression that my recovery was of importance to whoever was seeing me.

All this has been on the NHS so not waiting in dread of a demand for payment in return for my treatment. So understandibly I think I dont consider the NHS a joke...perhaps you might make enquiries as whether this kind of informal service is offered in or around your area.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2010)

Well I live in Blackburn, could I stray across to Hyndburn?


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## mik (2 Sep 2010)

Well its run by the East Lancs Hospitals (NHS Trust) so I cant imagine there would be a problem ( Blackburn is after all in East Lancs). It's based in the Accrington Pals medical centre in Accrington. Perhaps you could give them a ring before attending just to clear things. If you can get in I can recommend it.


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## Globalti (2 Sep 2010)

mik said:


> Well its run by the East Lancs Hospitals (NHS Trust) so I cant imagine there would be a problem ( Blackburn is after all in East Lancs). It's based in the Accrington Pals medical centre in Accrington. Perhaps you could give them a ring before attending just to clear things. If you can get in I can recommend it.



Just rung them and passed on your compliments but unfortunately the "instant attention" bit only applies to back pain sufferers like you. Knee pain has to join the queue and that "could be mid November"!

Anyway I have just arranged to see someone locally tomorrow morning on BUPA. Damn it, I pay £78.20 a month for family membership so why not....?


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## mik (2 Sep 2010)

Globalti said:


> Just rung them and passed on your compliments but unfortunately the "instant attention" bit only applies to back pain sufferers like you. Knee pain has to join the queue and that "could be mid November"!
> 
> Anyway I have just arranged to see someone locally tomorrow morning on BUPA. Damn it, I pay £78.20 a month for family membership so why not....?



Didn't realise that I thought it was for any complaint that might require physiotherapy. So apologies. I hope you get your knee sorted sooner rather than later.

...if this weather holds I'm hoping to be pedaling gently around the quiet *flat* lanes around the Fylde coast this weekend and a few weeks ago I wouldnt have put money on ever walking normally again never mind cycling....

And thanks for passing on my compliments...


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## mangaman (2 Sep 2010)

Globalti said:


> Just rung them and passed on your compliments but unfortunately the "instant attention" bit only applies to back pain sufferers like you. Knee pain has to join the queue and that "could be mid November"!
> 
> Anyway I have just arranged to see someone locally tomorrow morning on BUPA. Damn it, I pay £78.20 a month for family membership so why not....?



This was I was trying to say globalti - sorry if my post was a bit waffly.

A generic physio - be they NHS or private may not know a lot about sports injuries. I'd be a bit careful and try to ask around - word of mouth is a good guide and if the physio comes with a decent reputation and a sports background, they'll be fine.

A physio who's not from a sports background could do more harm than good potentially.


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## Bill Gates (8 Sep 2010)

You might have to wait but it could be well worth it. I also had to wait 6 weeks to see the NHS physio for a shoulder neck problem. The Physio that I saw expertly identified the problem and showed me some strengthening exercises and stretches to do. On subsequent visits she added to the list of exercises and the problem went away. I still do them every now and again. I've also been to see chiropractors and osteopaths in the past and paid out shed loads. 

IMO a good physio is well worth the wait.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Sep 2010)

Having played rugby as a younger man and picked up many injuries I've had more than my share of NHS physio therapy over the years. There has always been a wait for non-serious non-debilitating not-stopping-you working conditions. Round here the wait is no longer than it always has been, about 6 weeks. If you feel you can't wait find a good private physio, I'd suggest one who works with a local pro or semi pro sports club is a good indicator, and hand over your pictures of the Queen.


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## alecstilleyedye (10 Sep 2010)

my gripe, when i broke a collar-bone ligament, was not the quality of the physio (no real wait for it either), but the fact that the consultant kept telling me not to ride my bike.

eventually i made the point that the accident was as a result of riding close to the rider in front on a training ride, with a lapse of concentration causing me to go down heavily. i told him that my general health would probably suffer through not riding, and that i could ride perfectly upright and safely without falling off. i did have to promise to stay off other people's back wheel for a while…


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## Globalti (17 Sep 2010)

I went to the Bury Physio & Sports Injury Clinic on BUPA (cost was £36) and she checked my knees, told me they were fine and gave me some stretching exercises to do after riding. Did them after the next ride and.... I have to admit that the knees do feel better.


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## RedBike (17 Sep 2010)

I had to wait just over 2 months. 

The NHS physios arn't a patch on the private ones, but I can't afford to keep paying out £40 a week to go private.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (17 Sep 2010)

Not quite physio, but had plenty of it over the years, some useless, some dangerous and damagaing, some excellent.

I had an accident 17 years ago (no health insurance) which left me with my wrist constantly dislocating (20 - 30 times a day) and in chronic pain; it also left me slightly paralysed down the that side of my body. I have been from one consultant to another until I was finally referred me to someone who actually knew what the problem was and he has only performed the operation less than 10 times in his very long career - recovered really well over several years, took 6 years to get cycling again and was treated really well once I finally found someone who knew what the issue was (at one point my _then_ GP referred me to a psychiatrist who put my GP straight - the pain was real and not in my head and my wrist was dislocating). 

I have had years of physio, occupational therapy, accupuncture, pain management and all sorts including 11 operations on it.

Now I have a problem again with my left hand - it has gone partially numb again, (but this time much worse) and very weak (new sympton), but becuase it is 18 months since I last saw my consultant, I have got to go through the NHS triage team to see someone who can decide if I can go back on the waiting list to see my consultant. It has taken nearly 2 months just to get to the traige team. The appt is on Monday next week. If I can get to my consultant, then I know I will get the treatment I need, if the damage is not now permanent. If I can't convince the traige team to refer me without messing around and wasting their and my time, then I am going to have to accept that my left hand is now seriously impaired (I can't hold a fork down to cut food up/use my front brakes/use the indicators when driving my automatic which already has a steering ball on the steering wheel - the list goes on). I would cross my fingers for Monday's appt, but that is something else I can no longer do!

That said, there have been times when the NHS has been amazing - I'm a severe asthmatic and have been resusitated twice following severe attacks and been bitten by an adder (needing 3 days hospitalisation after a bad reaction to the venom) and have reached the conclusion that if the NHS thinks you are dying (there and then) they are amazing, but if you are not dying, then it is seriously hit and miss.


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## Lien Sdrawde (18 Sep 2010)

I work for the NHS and did my ankle in at work - had to beg the Occupational Health dept to refer me to our own physio dept. They agreed and great work was done.

I have a few pals ive met since the injury who are physios and I think (though i'll have to check on this) there are various levels of professional registration - all of whom can practice privately and call themselves a 'physiotherapist' The question is if you are being treated by those with the best professional rating - and thereby hopefully the best professional knowledge.

ps - if anyone needs a recommendation for a world class (private) physio in the Stockport area, give me a shout.


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## RedBike (20 Sep 2010)

[QUOTE 1172696"]
I'm always intrigued by this one. Where do you think private physios train and learn?

MrsUser76 also works privately, and does the same job for her patients. I think it has some basis in the fact that if you pay for a treatment you then do the 'homework', if you get the treatment free you are less inclined to do the 'homework'.
[/quote]

I've been seeing the NHS physios regularly and a private physio every month. Up to now they have (thankfully!) been doing / telling me exactly the same things. However, they way they've been done does vary! With the NHS physio they've got my medical records and they know what the problem is before I arrive. As such I'm out of there within 10mins. With the private physio they do all sorts of test and i'm in there for a good hour. 

When I go private its the fact that they spend longer with you that imo make the difference. 

For example. The NHS physio handed me a list of exercises and told me I needed to stretch / go swimming.
The private physio spent the time walking me through step by step how to stretch properly and gave me a routine to do. I now spend nearly 3hrs a day stretching, whereas I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have spent more than 10mins a day if I'd been left to just follow the NHS's sheet. 

The NHS physio only treated my ankle (the injured part). Whereas the private physios spotted the fact I wasn't walking or sitting correctly due to a bad knee / back which was apparently being caused by the ankle. 

My comment about the private phsyios being better than the NHS physio wasn't supposed to be a negative comment about the physiotherapists themselves. I'm sure that if the NHS had an hour+ to assess each patient they would do just as good a job.


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## E11a (20 Sep 2010)

The treatment I've had so far has been excellent and all on the NHS.

I saw my GP two weeks ago today about a knee injury and had an assessment with an NHS physio on the Friday where I was told about the treatment options and given exercises . I had another appointment with a physio today (still NHS), and have another one next week. The exercises really seem to be helping (and should help my cycling too ).

Unfortunately my GP hasn't had the x-rays that were taken over a week ago.


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## RedBike (21 Sep 2010)

[QUOTE 1172701"]
So, to paraphrase this. The free NHS physio treats your presenting problem, and you feel better. The private, who charges you £30ish a session, (£50 for the hour assessment?) manages to find lots of other things wrong with you which (which aren't an issue) you go back to them for and pay for them to treat?

The free physio says "Here are your exercises, are you ok with them?" The private one says "Sit down and let me bill you for an extra session which you could do as well by sitting down at home at reading this piece of paper"

As for the strecthing thing, well....... lets just say the jury is out (think bike helmets)
[/quote]


No, not at all. Its £30/£35 for the hour and IMO its been money well spent. 

I am absolutely convinsed that the additional treatment from the private physio has knocked months off my recovery time.


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## helmet tester (29 Sep 2010)

montage said:


> NHS is just a joke in general.
> Apologies to anybody who works in the NHS



No apology neccessary. I work for them. we just want to do an honest days graft and provide a 'SERVICE' for PEOPLE. instead we're being run by middle/senior managers who would be better placed selling BMW's. 

the truth is we're no longer driven by clinical priorities, thats all now secondary to 'efficiency targets' - as long as we tick the right boxes and meet targets the dont seem to give a flying damn about the quality of our work. And these fly-boys are resorting to bullying tactics, threatening us with disciplinary action if we dont achieve quantative targets.

Its not a service anymore, its gone all corporate and you can be assured most people doing the actual real work in the NHS are well pissed off with it.

you'll get a 'more efficient' service on paper, in corporate terms, but in reality a watered down service. 

People blame front line staff and say stuff like 'youve got it easy compared to the private sector' .... not so - we have demanding, draining, responsible jobs usually on inadequate resources and the majority of us are doing the job because we genuinely care about helping people and making a useful contribution to society. instead theyre driving us into a 'f**K it, its only a job, i'll do the minimum i can get away with'. Sad, but when your run by a bunch of corporate minded clowns this is what happens. Anyone who has had any decent management training knows this - there are good ways and bad ways of motivating and getting the best from your employees.

I'm currently having problems with some injuries / specific conditions that cause me sevre pain when cycling and if i could afford to i'd go private - because i'll have months of being dismissed and fobbed off by GPs who are driven to avoid spending money. I know exactly what the problems are, theyre symptom specific to the letter, but i'll have to jump through hoops.

bloody frustrating, but politically we've all to an extent let this happen via our political apathy and an attitude of 'this is the world we live in, thats just how it is'


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