# Aggressive dogs



## ronmac (16 Mar 2009)

Couldn't find any posts on this and as it must affect all of us, I thought I'd start one.
Last week I was cycling on a country road. Just meandering, enjoying nature, enjoying being outdoors.
I heard growling and turned to see a Rottweiller and another dog charging towards me from the open double gates of a property. I'm not afraid of dogs, but as I had nothing to protect myself with I decided to get off my mark, which I did with rottweiller snapping at my pedalling heels.
I now cycle with a short metal pipe handy. I don't know if I'm breaking the law, but if that Rottweiller had gotten hold of me and I had the pipe, I'd have had no hesitation in cracking it's skull.


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## bianchi1 (16 Mar 2009)

Try cycling in rural France. Dogs just cant help chasing cyclists, and while the odd small yappy thing isnt to much of a problem, a pack of snarling farm dogs guarding their bit of road is not much fun. I was forced to retreat to a safe distance and shout F#CK and SH#T untill the farmer came out to see what all the fuss was about and shut his hounds of hell in.


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## Willow (16 Mar 2009)

I meant to put a similar thread on yesterday and forgot. I am not an animal lover, just wary of them really as didn't have any when I was growing up. I had two dogs snarling and making chase when I was out yesterday. They were not rottweilers probably some sort of lab cross so I guess relatively tame but not to me. I stopped as they made chase barking at me. But what I want to know is why did I find myself apologising to the owner and saying it doesn't matter when it clearly does.

On a similar vane it drives me mad when my boys play their school football matches and people are walking dogs off the lead and let them actually run all over the football pitch. What planet are these people on.


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## Willow (16 Mar 2009)

bianchi1 said:


> Try cycling in rural France. Dogs just cant help chasing cyclists, and while the odd small yappy thing isnt to much of a problem, a pack of snarling farm dogs guarding their bit of road is not much fun. I was forced to retreat to a safe distance and shout F#CK and SH#T untill the farmer came out to see what all the fuss was about and shut his hounds of hell in.




wow that's just reminded me of a walk we had several years ago when the boys were small and we went across a public footpath on a farm. we were all absolutely terrified for the same reason and eventually someone came to our rescue.


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## John the Monkey (16 Mar 2009)

bianchi1 said:


> Try cycling in rural France.


+1 ... those farm dogs really guard their property, don't they?


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## Dayvo (16 Mar 2009)

John the Monkey said:


> +1 ... those farm dogs really guard their property, don't they?



Didn't seem to inherit it from their French-owner 'armed' soldiers a few years back!


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## ronmac (16 Mar 2009)

bianchi1 said:


> Try cycling in rural France.



Funny you should say that, Bianchi1. I'm off on my first cycle tour in 2 weeks time, and guess where I'm going ?
Yup, you got it - rural France (Northish).
I'll have my trusty bit of pipe down the side of my belt. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't hit a dog if it's only chasing the bike and even snapping at my heels. A lot of domestic dogs do this. I don't think most domestic dogs would actually attack the cyclist. But if a dog has actually bitten me and is still attacking then I don't think I have any option.
A short aftermath to my original story. I reported it next day to the police who then went to the property. On being made aware of what had happened the owner was in no way sorry or apologetic. He said to the policeman "Yeah he does tend to run at cyclists". At least the policeman then gave him a formal warning and told him to keep his dog under control.


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## chirk2000ad (16 Mar 2009)

dealing with dogs. 
Fact - dogs love chasing bikes and their riders. I wonder if it has something to do with the spinning ankles that they just can`t resist?
I have had loads of run ins with dogs of one sort or another. My other half says its cos they can smell the fear and that may be true as they never go for her!
My tips - well you could shout and I have tried that in the past with some effect. Stones I would only try in really remote places with really wild dogs! But my top tip is a full water bottle. I have stopped wild french and spanish dogs in their tracks with a jolly good squirt from a full bottle right up the nostril!


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## ronmac (16 Mar 2009)

chirk2000ad said:


> dealing with dogs.
> Fact - dogs love chasing bikes and their riders. I wonder if it has something to do with the spinning ankles that they just can`t resist?
> I have had loads of run ins with dogs of one sort or another. My other half says its cos they can smell the fear and that may be true as they never go for her!
> My tips - well you could shout and I have tried that in the past with some effect. Stones I would only try in really remote places with really wild dogs! But my top tip is a full water bottle. I have stopped wild french and spanish dogs in their tracks with a jolly good squirt from a full bottle right up the nostril!



Excellent idea, Chirk. I can throw my metal pipe away. Only one query, wouldn't the acid eat away at my bottle.

Seriously though, I do think that is a good idea to deter dogs which may be chasing bike but I think I want something more effective if large, angry dog is actually attacking me and may actually be endangering my life !

p.s. Another dog recently bit my ankle and when I gave it a kick the owner attacked me with a log (really). But that's another story


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## chirk2000ad (16 Mar 2009)

I have seen another technique which is quite comical in some survival handbook or other on dealing with dogs where it says something along the lines of wrap arm in blanket and then knock dog over the head as it grabs your arm. Not so useful when on a bike I guess?


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## ronmac (16 Mar 2009)

A method which I know actually works if your game to try it and strong enough to carry it out. Put the curvy bit of your hand between thumb and forefinger in dogs mouth and wrap your fingers round lower jaw. A dog is quite helpless if you can hold it like this. But he will twist and turn his head to try to get out of it. While holding a dog like this he is at your mercy. You could poke his eyes out with your other hand. Or you could continuously kick him/her where it really hurts.
As I've said before I only recommend doing any of this i if you feel in great danger. I wouldn't really want to hurt an animal unless really necessary.


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## ASC1951 (17 Mar 2009)

ronmac said:


> a Rottweiller and another dog charging towards me from the open double gates of a property.


Report it to Plod. Dogs aren't allowed to chase people on a public road, so it is 'out of control'. Plod will at least record it for later.

I was chased and bitten by an Alsation a few years ago while out running. It's not pleasant.


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## cisamcgu (17 Mar 2009)

Richards Bicycle Book


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## ronmac (17 Mar 2009)

ASC1951 said:


> Report it to Plod. Dogs aren't allowed to chase people on a public road, so it is 'out of control'. Plod will at least record it for later.
> 
> I was chased and bitten by an Alsation a few years ago while out running. It's not pleasant.



I did report it to plod asc1951, here's what I wrote a few posts back :

A short aftermath to my original story. I reported it next day to the police who then went to the property. On being made aware of what had happened the owner was in no way sorry or apologetic. He said to the policeman "Yeah he does tend to run at cyclists". At least the policeman then gave him a formal warning and told him to keep his dog under control.


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## yello (17 Mar 2009)

I live in rural France and the dog thing is true. Most farms/homes have a dog. Some pets, some farm dogs... and some out-and-out hunt dogs. Though, in fairness, the hunt dogs are usually caged or chained.

So it is certainly not uncommon for me to have dogs run out and chase me. I probably get it a couple of times a week and I've learned to ignore it. Yes, it was pretty frightening on a couple of occasions (still can be sometimes) but I have never been bitten (touch wood!). As chirk2000ad suggests, it just seems to be what some dogs do - but I don't think there's necessarily any intention to bite. I've only once had a dog actually touch me; he butted my leg with his nose. 

I've been off'ed by a dog though. A playful, young, gallumping yellow lab. It bounded up alongside me then cut across my front wheel. Henceforth, I was more concerned by her than any off the other usual mutts that barked and ran at me! Haven't seen her in a while now, praps she did the same with a tractor!


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## John the Monkey (17 Mar 2009)

yello said:


> I've been off'ed by a dog though. A playful, young, gallumping yellow lab. It bounded up alongside me then cut across my front wheel. Henceforth, I was more concerned by her than any off the other usual mutts that barked and ran at me! Haven't seen her in a while now, praps she did the same with a tractor!



You are Marcus Burghardt, and I claim my five pounds.


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## Bodhbh (17 Mar 2009)

Dogs off the leash are driving me a bit nuts atm, as I'm taking the 6 mile local cycleway into work, it being dry not muddy. With the size of them, my main concern with most of them chasing, is they'll stick their head in the wheel and end up sausage meat. Like horses charging at pikemen, maybe this is one thing no animal is daft enuff to do in practice, tho I've had a couple making contact with the tyre.


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## MacB (17 Mar 2009)

I've not been chased but did come embarrassingly close to falling off when a sudden bout of yapping caught me unawares. The dog in question wasn't much bigger than my foot, I'd have had trouble living that one down.

Was chased and bitten twice as a child but both times we were sneaking around on farms and knew the risk.


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## andym (17 Mar 2009)

ronmac said:


> p.s. Another dog recently bit my ankle and when I gave it a kick the owner attacked me with a log (really). But that's another story



I'm not a dog lover, and I've no time for irresponsible dog owners, but it sounds to me, from your posts, that you risk some serious violence sooner or later. Seriously, reread your posts - it sounds to me like you are in real danger of making a bad situation a lot worse.

As far as I'm concerned the most sensible thing to do, if you aren't very clearly in a position to outrun the dog, is to get off your bike - so stopping the game of chase, and then put the bike between you and the dog. And then shout at the dog to go home. hopefully the owner won't be too far away.

If you are dealing with sheep (or goat) dogs then don't put yourself between them and the animals they are guarding.

PS - I don't know if Corsica is different from the rest of rural France, but my experience with dogs there has been that they are generally extremely soppy, and usually too idle to even get up, never mind chase you - unless of course they think there's some food involved.


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## ronmac (17 Mar 2009)

andym said:


> I'm not a dog lover, and I've no time for irresponsible dog owners, but it sounds to me, from your posts, that you risk some serious violence sooner or later. Seriously, reread your posts - it sounds to me like you are in real danger of making a bad situation a lot worse.



Andym, With respect, I think YOU should re-read my posts. I've made it clear I would only use violence if a dog had bitten me and persisted with its attack and I feel endangered. Especially large, aggressive dogs.
Whether it's a dog or a person one is allowed to use the amount of force required to defend oneself.
The last thing I want to do is harm a domestic dog for chasing me/my bicycle.
I don't see how you can make the judgement that I would make a bad situation worse if you don't know how I react to a dog that's only chasing my bike. And to be honest I usually react pretty much as you suggest. Get off the bike, put the bike between me and it, and try to be friendly with dog in first instance. If that doesn't work I then talk in a firmer tone of voice. If that doesn't work I would try to walk away, if it follows growling etc..that's fine, as long as it doesn't attack. 
I'm sure some of the other posters won't agree with this approach. If the dog is being territorial then stopping on it's patch isn't going to appease it. 


And by the way my wife is absolutely terrified of dogs


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## mcr (17 Mar 2009)

> What's that old cycling book that suggests ramming your pump down the dog's throat?



Trouble with the advice in 'RBB' is that pumps seem to getting shorter and shorter these days!


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## andym (17 Mar 2009)

ronmac said:


> Andym, With respect, I think YOU should re-read my posts.
> I don't see how you can make the judgement that I would make a bad situation worse



Really? Read your posts:



ronmac said:


> I now cycle with a short metal pipe handy. I don't know if I'm breaking the law, but if that Rottweiller had gotten hold of me and I had the pipe, I'd have had no hesitation in cracking it's skull.





ronmac said:


> A method which I know actually works if your game to try it and strong enough to carry it out. Put the curvy bit of your hand between thumb and forefinger in dogs mouth and wrap your fingers round lower jaw. A dog is quite helpless if you can hold it like this. But he will twist and turn his head to try to get out of it. While holding a dog like this he is at your mercy. You could poke his eyes out with your other hand. Or you could continuously kick him/her where it really hurts.
> As I've said before I only recommend doing any of this i if you feel in great danger. I wouldn't really want to hurt an animal unless really necessary.





ronmac said:


> Excellent idea, Chirk. I can throw my metal pipe away. Only one query, wouldn't the acid eat away at my bottle.
> 
> Seriously though, I do think that is a good idea to deter dogs which may be chasing bike but I think I want something more effective if large, angry dog is actually attacking me and may actually be endangering my life !
> 
> p.s. Another dog recently bit my ankle and when I gave it a kick the owner attacked me with a log (really). But that's another story



You were talking about carrying offensive weapons - pipe and acid. You've already been involved in violence with a dog owner. You wonder why I think you're on course for a very nasty violent confrontation?


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## dpiper (17 Mar 2009)

I carry a whistle. I startles the dog so you have a few extra seconds to escape. Likewise at night I blind them with my helmet mounted light. 

Most dogs are territorial so once they see you off their patch they are happy. 

If all else fails get the bike between you and the dog and walk off slowly keeping eye contact.

If that doesnt work, throw stones.

If that doesnt work, wade in! A dog may jump up at you - try to grab its two front legs and pull them apart dislocating its shoulders. 

If he comes at you with mouth open (and you have winter gloves on) ram your fist down its throat. If its got something stuck in its throat it wont be able to close its jaws (this is the only one of the above methods I havent yet proven for myself!!)

more at www.tra-velo-gue.co.uk


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## xilios (17 Mar 2009)

I've read somewhere that diluted ammonia stops everything, (including dogs) and I think its legal (to carry) everywhere. 
But finding a good delivery system is difficult.
Ideas anyone?


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## Bodhbh (17 Mar 2009)

xilios said:


> I've read somewhere that diluted ammonia stops everything, (including dogs) and I think its legal (to carry) everywhere.
> But finding a good delivery system is difficult.
> Ideas anyone?


Water pistol?

I think that's pretty nasty for the eyes, alkalis normally are (adsorp thru the eyeball). It's bad enough what they do to the skin. Mace is legal in France? Mace the dog, and if the owner objects, mace him too. If he's still giving bother, bomp him with the D-lock.


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## ronmac (17 Mar 2009)

andym said:


> Really? Read your posts:
> You were talking about carrying offensive weapons - pipe and acid. You've already been involved in violence with a dog owner. You wonder why I think you're on course for a very nasty violent confrontation?



Andym, I can't make it any clearer. I only advocate retaliating with violence if bitten and feel endangered. An aggressive dog like that won't stop, you have to stop it. I intimated that in each of the three posts you cut/pasted.

Yes I've been involved in violence with a dog owner. HE attacked me (with an offensive weapon, in this case a log) for kicking his dog who had just bitten me in the ankle as I cycled past, minding my own business. I could have inflicted violence on him, but I didn't, I only believe in violence if necessary to protect oneself. Violence begets violence, I don't advocate it unnecessarily, and really wish we lived in a world where violence didn't occur.

Would you use a short piece of pipe or wood if you had it and were being savaged by a rottweiller?

The comment about acid was meant in jest.


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## John the Monkey (17 Mar 2009)

Bodhbh said:


> Mace is legal in France? Mace the dog, and if the owner objects, mace him too. If he's still giving bother, bomp him with the D-lock.


Or pedal faster.

I mean, it's up to you and all...


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## bonj2 (17 Mar 2009)

I think all dogs should be shot.
There's one down the road leading to my village which is usually on its lead but one time it got out and started chasing me, it looked a lot like a pit bull. It tried to keep up but I accelerated and it couldn't run at 20mph for more than a few seconds.


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## Crackle (17 Mar 2009)

bonj said:


> I think all dogs should be shot.
> There's one down the road leading to my village which is usually on its lead but one time it got out and started chasing me, it looked a lot like a pit bull. It tried to keep up but I accelerated and it couldn't run at 20mph for more than a few seconds.




Wait, wait: What's left then. No farmers, no horses, no dogs, no POB's, no cars or lorries, that leaves..................................just you in the world Bonj.


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## xilios (17 Mar 2009)

Bodhbh said:


> Mace is legal in France?



I wonder what other countries is mace legal in? Or even pepper/bear sprey for that matter it would be nice to carry something like that in the handlebar bag.


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## MichaelM (17 Mar 2009)

dpiper said:


> *If he comes at you with mouth open *(and you have winter gloves on) ram your fist down its throat. If its got something stuck in its throat it wont be able to close its jaws (this is the only one of the above methods I havent yet proven for myself!!)
> 
> more at www.tra-velo-gue.co.uk



If a dog comes at you with mouth open, with it's tongue lolling all over the place, then you're not in any danger at all. It wants to say hello and have a play.

It's the quiet fixed stare and maybe licking of the lips, tail up followed by a head on charge that you want to worry about.

Other than that, I strongly suspect that a dog can close it's jaws a lot faster than most people can push their hands forward!


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## Joe24 (17 Mar 2009)

Crackle said:


> Wait, wait: What's left then. No farmers, no horses, no dogs, no POB's, no cars or lorries, that leaves..................................just you in the world Bonj.



Only seriouse cyclists will be left in the world.
Which means i will still be here


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## ChrisCrc (18 Mar 2009)

i have been bitten twice over the last 20 years by people letting their dogs roam off the lead. The first time was a Greyhound/Irish wolfhound type of dog and it sank its teeth into my Calf and i was cycling along minding my own business, luckily the force of my pedalling broke the dogs grip on my leg, still i was left with a bloody leg and the owner just said "oh he's never done that before". the second time was a small yappy thing that must have taken offence to soething or was in a bad mood

I now always carry a Cheap Camera Phone and if the situation does occur again i will take photos and will sue their arses...


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## rich p (18 Mar 2009)

Has anyone tried the sonic scarer?

like this


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## dpiper (18 Mar 2009)

*"If he comes at you with mouth open... " of course I meant not with his tongue lolling. I think everyone on this forum knows the difference between good and bad dog body language.*

*A lot of the comments above seem to assume you'll have all the time in the world to fish about in your panniers to find your sonic scarrer / lead pipe / pump etc. *

*You dont.*

*A dog that means business moves quickly. If its gob is open get your fist down its throat; if it jumps up grab both legs and pull apart.*

*The advice above is based on real attacks from real dogs. If things have got to the stage where the dog is attacking these are your best defences and you have to be merciless. *

*I am a dog lover. Really I am. But we are not talking poochy pets are we? On tour outside the UK there are such things as wild dogs and working dogs that are bred to kill wolves or anything it percieves as a danger to its flock / herd etc. So in these situations you have to be ruthless*


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## rich p (18 Mar 2009)

dpiper said:


> *"If he comes at you with mouth open... " of course I meant not with his tongue lolling. I think everyone on this forum knows the difference between good and bad dog body language.*
> 
> *A lot of the comments above seem to assume you'll have all the time in the world to fish about in your panniers to find your sonic scarrer / lead pipe / pump etc. *
> 
> ...




Do you live in rural Montana by any chance?


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## ronmac (18 Mar 2009)

I couldn't agree with you more dpiper. You put things much better than I was able to. I think I was giving some people the impression I'm like a seal clubber. Go out and club every dog I can find in the countryside. Not so - I like friendly dogs. In fact this afternoon I cycled along a country road I often go on just to see this labrador who greets me in a friendly manner and happily runs alongside bike for a while.

But - Since that Rottweiller rushed at me last week I now have contingency in place in case I am actually attacked by an aggressive animal. And my contingency isn't in my pannier etc, it's close to hand. I'll also bear your advice in mind. I'll tell you what it certainly gives one a bit more confidence when cycling in country areas. 
I better repeat, it's only for use if I'm actually being bitten, mauled, savaged - call it what you will.


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## seano (18 Mar 2009)

The bottle of water is your only man. Had to dismount before this puerto when one large and two smaller shepards dogs took exception to me passing. Shielding myself with the bike while empting litre and half while inching my way backwards, fortunatly I was on the right side of their domain when they attacked. Have never supported an animal charity since!!!

http://www.seanoreilly.4t.com/images/hpim0909.jpg.


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## Toshiba Boy (18 Mar 2009)

Interesting thread.

Got to say, after nearly 30 years cycling, mostly rural roads/lanes (South Warks and now West Somerset), have been chased by a dog precisely once (farm dog, came out of nowhere, got fed up chasing me once I'd left his "patch" of lane presumably).

Been "chased" by single brain cell motorists, for some perceived slight , more often.

Do some of you wear a distinctive aftershave


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## ronmac (18 Mar 2009)

Toshiba Boy, Fair comment and I hope the Rottweiller occurrence was a one in thirty years. Unfortunately it only takes one ferocious attack to do a lot of damage. The chances of it happening are probably quite remote. A bit like an airplane crash I suppose. So - the contingency plan stays in place but I certainly don't want to be cycling around worrying about getting savaged by a dog.

p.s. Domestic dogs chasing the bike don't bother me at all.
p.p.s. Don't start me on aggressive people ! Another issue. Gosh, I cycle to chill out.


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## chris667 (18 Mar 2009)

It strikes me that some of you guys expect problems from dogs, and so create a self fulfilling prophecy. What I can tell you is that dogs are masters of reading body language, and if you act scared of them, they will react to that.
I've been brought up with dogs, and I currently own a large Alsatian/Collie cross. In a lifetime of owning and dealing with dogs, guess how many dogs have bitten me?
None.


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## ronmac (18 Mar 2009)

Chris667, I agree with you that a dog can sense fear in a person. But the rottweiller that charged at me started it's charge long before it got close enough to know if I was afraid of it or not. In fact I was looking the other way, I heard it before I saw it.
As it happens I am not afraid of dogs and can usually placate a dog that approaches me in an unfriendly way - i.e. what your saying in reverse, it senses I'm not afraid so drops the aggression.
However this is not my experience of Rottweillers and Bull Mastiffs and the like. These dogs don't seem to give a toss if you're not scared of them - they'd still have a go at you if they have a mind to.


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## chris667 (18 Mar 2009)

But how come this has never happened to me?


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## ronmac (18 Mar 2009)

Statistics. Like I said in an earlier post it's probably a bit like the chances of being involved in an plane crash.
So statistically maybe I've had my aggressive dog incident and hopefully it won't happen again.
I don't include domestic dogs chasing the bike. I think that happens quite a lot, and it doesn't really bother me.


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## mike1026 (19 Mar 2009)

*dogs are dangerous*

If anyone is any doubt about the potential dangers posed by dogs have a look at this BBC report there have also been many (too many) incidents in the UK. 

If a dog chases/attacks you while you are passing on the road, please report either to the Police or the Dog Warden take photos if you can. Please do this for the next cyclist who will pass after you.

To those who are skeptical because they have never been a victim one might as well say because I have never died then surely I will live forever!

There is a problem not with the dogs but with the owners; not controlling a dog is an extreme form of anti social behaviour. 

Perhaps the moderaters of this site can organise a survey to see how many of us have been victimised in this way.


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## chris667 (19 Mar 2009)

mike1026 said:


> To those who are skeptical because they have never been a victim one might as well say because I have never died then surely I will live forever!


Don't know if you were talking about me, but that's not what I said!
On every cycling forum, there's a regular thread about dogs. It's as inevitable as the h*lmet debate.
They're always started by someone who has had a run in with a dog, and then everyone else, pro and anti dogs joins in. It's a harmless pursuit, but I reckon it must put people off cycling, because it sounds like a common occurence when it isn't.
Problem is, someone that expects trouble very often causes it, sometimes without trying. If you have resorted to carrying round something to defend yourself against dogs, you aren't in the right frame of mind to deal with them.
The same is true with dog owners, BTW; many's the time I've talked to a dog owner who has said something like "Ooh, our Fido doesn't like labradors/postmen/black people/cyclists"(delete as applicable). Dogs aren't that selective, what tends to happen is the owners change their behaviour around certain individuals, which unwittingly makes their dogs guard them.
Look, I understand disliking dogs is your choice. Personally, I recommend if you are frightened of them you make friends with someone who owns a dog and get used to it, because you are going to encounter dogs, but if you don't know how to act around dogs you are more likely to have a problem with one.


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## yello (19 Mar 2009)

chris667 said:


> What I can tell you is that dogs are masters of reading body language, and if you act scared of them, they will react to that.



Whilst I would agree with that it still is no guarantee that a dog won't bite the unafraid. I too was brought up with dogs - we have 2 now - and used to deliver newspapers as a kid so had many many person/dog interfaces. 

How many times have I been bitten? Precisely ONCE! By a collie that was all wagging tail and friendly as it came up to me and then promptly nipped my leg. Some (sheep) dogs do nip rather than bite but the difference is kind of irrelevant if you're on the receiving end! 

One of our dogs (a malinoux cross) nips as well. She has done it to me once, playfully, and it's more a shock than pain, but she has also done it to 2 other people. We have no idea why, as she is not aggressive nor does she do it to everyone that visits. The point is, I do believe there is something that dogs pick up that make some people more likely to be bitten than others. Again, that's no consolation!


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## ronmac (19 Mar 2009)

I appreciate all the points everyone's making. I certainly don't want to put anyone off cycling but sweeping a potential problem under the carpet isn't going to solve it.
After reading the Mike1026 entry and looking at the bbc report I for one will have my contingency in place when cycling in rural areas, especially in Europe. But I certainly won't be cycling around worrying about dogs.


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## Gary Cummins (19 Mar 2009)

My wife and I have done plenty of touring, particulalry around eastern Europe where stray dogs are common. Her method is to simply get off the bike if a dog begins chasing us, it works. Dogs chase bikes as a rule, not people, once you are off the cycle the dog seems to recognise you as a person again.


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## Crackle (19 Mar 2009)

My cousin and I were touring once and went along a lane downhill past a lodge. A very large dog decided to make it's presence felt and my cousin, having read somewhere to get off the bike and place it between yourself and the dog, decided to do just that. Trouble is I think he'd missed the bit about stopping first. He ended up in a big heap, panniers and contents everywhere with him on top of the prostate bike. No real damage except to his dignity and the front brake which was fatally injured. The dog just stopped and wandered back to lying in the sun.


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## Lone Rider (19 Mar 2009)

After regular incidents with dogs in the country I bought a small can of pepper spray last year, and have not seen a dog since.


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## ronmac (19 Mar 2009)

*I've just cut this from the bbc news website :*

*A Taser gun has been used to help capture a stray Rottweiler that attacked two motorists after sedatives failed to subdue the dog.* 

I rest my case. I'll have my contingency plan in place.


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## chris667 (19 Mar 2009)

Ronmac, that's a very stupid way to catch a dog. If you hurt a dog, it will be harder to bring under control, not easier. I'd like to read the rest of that article and find out the whole story, no professional dog person would ever use a taser to control an angry dog.
You are looking for a confrontation if you are carrying something to hit dogs with, pure and simple, and you're looking through the internet to find news articles to back up your views to us. This is fair enough, although it can't be much fun for you going for a bike rides. And don't be suprised if the police aren't your friends if you are caught carrying a club for dealing with errant dogs. Where does it stop?


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## ronmac (19 Mar 2009)

Chris667, You're completely wrong on your 2 points. 
1. I have not trawled the internet looking for aggressive dog stories. My homepage is the bbc news website and has been for a long time. By pure coincidence that story was on it when I logged in this afternoon. I haven't looked for any dog stories on internet. I'm sure if I did I'd find many examples.
2. I never seek confrontation. I'm too old for all that confrontational nonsense. I was rushed at by a Rottweiler while minding my own business in a public place. I don't know if it would have attacked me or not if I hadn't legged it. I'll feel safer having a contingency plan in place just in case an aggressive dog ever does ATTACK me.
What's wrong with having a contingency plan in place for anything. Does your work do fire drills every now and again ? Does that make it more likely that a fire will occur ? No. It's contingency.
If an aggressive dog rushes at you while cycling and this causes you to fall off your bicycle and the dog then proceeds to maul you about the head while your on the ground what are you going to do ? Worse still what if you have a child with you and he/she is getting mauled.
I really do rest my case.


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## John the Monkey (19 Mar 2009)

I had 3 dog experiences today - I was fixing a puncture by the roadside, and was passed by;

1) A rottie pup, that wasn't interested in me.
2) A Staffordshire terrier that gave me a bit of a sniff and allowed me to tickle behind its ears (lovely dogs those).
3) An Alsatian that ignored me too.

Just in the interest of balance, and all. I did keep my bike pump to hand just in case one of them went for my throat though, can't be too careful after all.


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## RussellEngland (20 Apr 2009)

There's a few humans I'd like to Taser 

I've never tried it, but what about a silent dog whistle? Doesn't need batteries or gas, they have a long range and I believe they can be adjusted to increase the intensity.


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## jags (23 Apr 2009)

remember when you were a kid ,the dreaded water gun never miss with one of those ,,wright between the eyes.


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2009)

bonj said:


> I think all dogs should be shot.
> There's one down the road leading to my village which is usually on its lead but one time it got out and started chasing me, it looked a lot like a pit bull. It tried to keep up but I accelerated and it couldn't run at 20mph for more than a few seconds.



Did it have to make a Pit stop?


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2009)

I've had more problems with dogs when running than when cycling. Our local park is used as a private lavatory by local dog owners. They also let their dogs off their leads despite signs saying all dogs must be on a lead and their dogs regularly chase after footballs and the kids playing as well as runners such as me. In a spell of 2 weeks last summer I got so sick of their mutts jumping up and scratching my legs that for one dog owner who kept telling me when I passed her and her delinquent mutt "Aw....he won't hurt you" as he jumped up to bite through my arm "Well if he doesn't hurt me then I won't hurt him and then I won't have to sue you". I then got a torrent of abuse from the lardy woman about 45 years old and a smoker. The next day she brought her husband along. I tried to run a slightly different route around the park to avoid them but their dog spied me and gave chase. As it approached I stopped and stood still. The thing still jumped up at me. The lardy owners came running after screaming at the dog to get down and come to them. Their commands had no effect and it would only withdraw when they pulled it away. There was no apology. They blamed me for running around the park it excited their dog! I reminded them it was a public place and of the signs at the entries requiring all dogs to be kept on a lead, to clear up all dog mess and that their dogs should not be out of control. They then tried to argue their dog, some sort of hunting cross was not out of control and that he had never hurt anyone. Right! I reminded them that they are responsible for it and the dog should be on a lead in the park. I told them if it comes for me again I will chase and bite them and see how they like it. Again lots of abuse if I touch their dog etc etc. Anyway they walked off dog still not on lead. So running another lap around the park again coming around again and not too far away from them, they had finally put the dog on the lead so I ran full sprint straight toward the bloke. He crapped himself obviously thought he was going to be attacked and dropped to the ground. I shouted at him “See how you like it!” I didn’t make contact with him. I never saw them or their dog again in that park. Another owner in the park used to deliberately let their little handbag dog off it’s lead as I approached. It always yap yapped, as I ran past trying to give it a wide berth, trying to get my ankles. Unfortunately one evening my fancy footwork to avoid getting bitten failed and I took a nip on the back of my right ankle. Ouch!!! So straight away I booted it like a football and it flew about 10 feet through the air. The owner an old bloke about 55 years old and about 25 yards away went nuts. No concern for me who his dog had just bitten. I reminded him of all the stuff about keeping the dog on a lead in a public place etc and that his dog had bitten me. He said it was my kcfuing fault for running in the park! He came at me he was going to do this he was going to do that. Bring it on nasty old man see where it gets you. He was going to get the police onto me. Ok I said call them but I will show them the blood that is now staining my white sock. I don’t carry a phone when running. The scene was becoming rather ugly. Then some other dog owners came along and he told them I had just attacked his dog, so at that point I decide to get out of there. Fortunately the other 3 or 4 dogs just couldn’t be bothered or were actually on leads. I didn’t report this to the police as firstly I felt they wouldn’t do anything and secondly I felt that I had sorted it out thirdly that the dog owner wouldn’t report it as he knew that his dog should have been on a lead and shouldn’t have bitten me. I cleaned up the laceration when I got home and got my jabs redone the next day. Most dog owners I find are pretty selfish people who use public spaces as their own private exercise grounds for their dogs to crap and pee everywhere and cause a nuisance to others. They just can’t appreciate that others do not share the same enthusiasm for their Fido that they do, that they do not want to be harassed by their dog or have to pat or stroke it to avoid being seen as a threat and being chased.

Earlier this year a chap appeared on the playing fields with two Rottweilers. He would park his white van adjacent to the park and playing field entrance then take his two dogs onto the playing fields to which the park is adjacent and both of which I run round. They are clearly security dogs. They are not muzzled. The first time I saw them I chose to continue running. Bad move. One of the dogs showed an interest in me and started to run toward me. It was quite far away and there was nowhere I could hide so I just crapped myself and froze. The owner was shouting for it to come back but it still it came barking and growling. I tell you I was sh1tting myself. Anyway about 25 yards from me it stopped and turned back to it’s owner as quickly as it had come. These are a very dangerous breed of dog. I took the registration of the van and reported the owner to the police. Result was that 1 week later he was still walking these dogs off the lead and un-muzzled in a public place where kids play. Following this I now pick up a couple of rocks from the car park area on the edge of the playing fields so I can throw them at any dog who comes for me.

There was a shocking case before Christmas where a relief postman delivering in Cambridge was mauled by a Rottweiler that had escaped through a magnetic gate which came open. The postman’s young son was with him although he was not injured. A plumber who was passing the property heard the commotion and tried to get the dog off the postman who had already suffered terrible arm injuries. I believe the plumber had to bash the Rottweiler around the head with a piece of scaffolding pole killing it to stop it as it had then turned on him. The owner of the dog was allegedly a business man. Obviously he dealt with people in a shady under world. This was local news story but it also appeared in national bulletins.

I have had the occasional dog chase me on a bike but that has tended to be when cycling through less desirable lowlife areas. On both occasions I had seen the dog and anticipated being chased, so unclipped a shoe ready to strike but one dog suddenly thought better of it having begun a chase and let me continue whilst the other took a blow to the snout as it lunged for my right foot and scampered off back to it’s owner who screamed abuse at me for hurting her dog who she cannot control. Cycling is certainly a lot safer than running from the dog attack aspect.

Not sure what system I would use to protect my self on a bike. If I got anything then I suppose it would have to be effective – 80,000v cattle prod? No only joking. From the words of wisdom here it would probably be a water pistol or water bottle as this would not harm it but hopefully stop it. I didn’t realise dogs don’t like water being fired at them . Is this guaranteed to stop them?

This appeared in The Times in february:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article5728143.ece


.


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## asterix (24 Apr 2009)

The idea that dogs can sense some kind of fear in their target does not stack up in my experience. Recently I cycled past two yappy creatures that chased me until I stopped and chased them. On my return I decided not to avoid the creatures but see what would happen. I had no fear of them whatsoever but they still came hammering down the road after me, yapping away. I just ignored them and they must have been quite a long way from home when they packed it in

I don't have a particular dislike of dogs they are like people, some good, some in between, and some bad.


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## andym (24 Apr 2009)

asterix said:


> The idea that dogs can sense some kind of fear in their target does not stack up in my experience. Recently I cycled past two yappy creatures that chased me until I stopped and chased them. On my return I decided not to avoid the creatures but see what would happen. I had no fear of them whatsoever but they still came hammering down the road after me, yapping away. I just ignored them and they must have been quite a long way from home when they packed it in



They probably remembered you as the guy who joined in the game the last time round.



Crankarm said:


> I've had more problems with dogs when running than when cycling. Our local park is used as a private lavatory by local dog owners. They also let their dogs off their leads despite signs saying all dogs must be on a lead and their dogs regularly chase after footballs and the kids playing as well as runners such as me. In a spell of 2 weeks last summer I got so sick of their mutts jumping up and scratching my legs that for one dog owner who kept telling me when I passed her and her delinquent mutt "Aw....he won't hurt you" as he jumped up to bite through my arm "Well if he doesn't hurt me then I won't hurt him and then I won't have to sue you". I then got a torrent of abuse from the lardy woman about 45 years old and a smoker. The next day she brought her husband along. I tried to run a slightly different route around the park to avoid them but their dog spied me and gave chase. As it approached I stopped and stood still. The thing still jumped up at me. The lardy owners came running after screaming at the dog to get down and come to them. Their commands had no effect and it would only withdraw when they pulled it away. There was no apology. They blamed me for running around the park it excited their dog! I reminded them it was a public place and of the signs at the entries requiring all dogs to be kept on a lead, to clear up all dog mess and that their dogs should not be out of control. They then tried to argue their dog, some sort of hunting cross was not out of control and that he had never hurt anyone. Right! I reminded them that they are responsible for it and the dog should be on a lead in the park. I told them if it comes for me again I will chase and bite them and see how they like it. Again lots of abuse if I touch their dog etc etc. Anyway they walked off dog still not on lead. So running another lap around the park again coming around again and not too far away from them, they had finally put the dog on the lead so I ran full sprint straight toward the bloke. He crapped himself obviously thought he was going to be attacked and dropped to the ground. I shouted at him “See how you like it!” I didn’t make contact with him. I never saw them or their dog again in that park. Another owner in the park used to deliberately let their little handbag dog off it’s lead as I approached. It always yap yapped, as I ran past trying to give it a wide berth, trying to get my ankles. Unfortunately one evening my fancy footwork to avoid getting bitten failed and I took a nip on the back of my right ankle. Ouch!!! So straight away I booted it like a football and it flew about 10 feet through the air. The owner an old bloke about 55 years old and about 25 yards away went nuts. No concern for me who his dog had just bitten. I reminded him of all the stuff about keeping the dog on a lead in a public place etc and that his dog had bitten me. He said it was my kcfuing fault for running in the park! He came at me he was going to do this he was going to do that. Bring it on nasty old man see where it gets you. He was going to get the police onto me. Ok I said call them but I will show them the blood that is now staining my white sock. I don’t carry a phone when running. The scene was becoming rather ugly. Then some other dog owners came along and he told them I had just attacked his dog, so at that point I decide to get out of there. Fortunately the other 3 or 4 dogs just couldn’t be bothered or were actually on leads. I didn’t report this to the police as firstly I felt they wouldn’t do anything and secondly I felt that I had sorted it out thirdly that the dog owner wouldn’t report it as he knew that his dog should have been on a lead and shouldn’t have bitten me. I cleaned up the laceration when I got home and got my jabs redone the next day. Most dog owners I find are pretty selfish people who use public spaces as their own private exercise grounds for their dogs to crap and pee everywhere and cause a nuisance to others. They just can’t appreciate that others do not share the same enthusiasm for their Fido that they do, that they do not want to be harassed by their dog or have to pat or stroke it to avoid being seen as a threat and being chased.
> .



That's got to be the longest paragraph I've ever seen on an internet forum.


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## psmiffy (24 Apr 2009)

ditto


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## just jim (24 Apr 2009)

But not on CycleChat!


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## samid (24 Apr 2009)

The logic of "you were afraid of the dog hence it's your fault that it attacked you" that it seems to me some people argued here escapes me. There are people who are afraid of dogs, sometimes with good reasons. That's not their fault. In a public place, if a dog attacks a person - it is always 100% the dog's owner fault and - IMHO - any means of defense against the dog are perfectly justified.


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## Plax (24 Apr 2009)

I had an interesting commute home today. I was attacked by midges and chased by two dogs. The two dogs - one was a Jack Russell and the other looked a bit like a pit bull terrier. Yappy little effers came after me when I was cycling up a hill. I carried on going and thankfully the pit bull looked quite old and gave up after a while. The jack russell though stayed with me for a while. All the time yapping and running alongside the bike, but not trying to bite me. 
I don't buy the "they'll only attack if they sense fear" argument as I'm not afraid of dogs but still have had the odd one chasing me. Usually little yappy terrier types. I think it is ingrained in them. Neighbour a few doors up has some kind of terrier. Sweet enough dog and knows who I am but still feels inclined to run alongside me yapping when I'm on the bike. I usually shout "F*ck off Jack" and he stops.

The only time I've been slightly concerned is the couple of times I've stayed at work past 6pm and taken the cycle path home along the lake. An old fella walks his German Shepherd around that time. The dog is always off the lead and thankfully the owner has always seen me first as when he sees me, he gets into a bit of a flap shouts for me to stop cycling and then goes and gets the dog on the lead and ushers me past. So now I avoid the cycle path at that time as one of these days the dog is going to clock me first and from the owners reaction I'd rather it didn't!


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## Crankarm (24 Apr 2009)

Plax said:


> ......The dog is always off the lead and thankfully the owner has always seen me first as when he sees me, he gets into a bit of a flap shouts for me to stop cycling and then goes and gets the dog on the lead and ushers me past. So now I avoid the cycle path at that time as one of these days the dog is going to clock me first and from the owners reaction I'd rather it didn't!



Next time you ride past him ask if he has a lead and insurance for his dog because if he doesn't and it harms you, you will sue him for every penny. You might get a torrent of abuse but it will focus his mind on the risk he is placing you and others in if there were any likelihood however small his dog could turn bad .


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## just jim (25 Apr 2009)

"An old fella walks his German Shepherd around that time. The dog is always off the lead and thankfully the owner has always seen me first as when he sees me, he gets into a bit of a flap shouts for me to stop cycling and then goes and gets the dog on the lead and ushers me past."

Plax, I wouldn't stand for that!


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## Plax (25 Apr 2009)

just jim said:


> "An old fella walks his German Shepherd around that time. The dog is always off the lead and thankfully the owner has always seen me first as when he sees me, he gets into a bit of a flap shouts for me to stop cycling and then goes and gets the dog on the lead and ushers me past."
> 
> Plax, I wouldn't stand for that!



I avoid that route now at that time. I confess to not being very assertive in such situations. The most aggressive thing I've done on the bike is stick a finger up at a car whose passenger shouted something out the window at me and then I felt bad about it!


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## Bibendum (30 Apr 2009)

The water idea is excellent. Speaking as someone who was mauled by a dog while running in the US a few years ago I do think that a blast of water in it's face could very well have saved me 25 stiches and a trip to hospital.
Dogs just get overexcited and on the whole, aren't well trained - in that they just don't do what their owner tells them to when their tails are up.
I am a dog lover and the attack didn't change that but I don't see anything wrong with hoofing one if it's making a menace of itself.... but with water, you'll avoid this and the following confrontation with a daft, miffed owner .


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