# New to Audax and need advice



## steveindenmark (29 Oct 2010)

HI gUYS,

Get the worst over first.......I ride a recumbent.  

Actually that is not totally true at the moment. I bought a recumbent trike last May but have recently sold it to buy a 2 wheeled recumbent. The trike was my forst recumbent and I thought it was great. A motorcycle accident broke both my forearms and right leg and a DF accident cracked a vertebrae in my neck and my collarbone. Riding a DF bike was becoming a pain in the....well everywhere really and so I thought I would give recumbents a go.

I am 52 and like being out on a bike in the fresh air and next year I am going to have a go at a bit of distance riding.

My question is are recumbents generally welcomed at these events?

I know nothing about audax events but enjoyed reading Andy Allsops book, thanks for that Andy. It is therefore his fault that I am going to get out there amongst them. 

I have no idea what a route plan looks like and was hoping that someone could e-mail me a copy of an old one so I can study it and work the route out on my PC. It does not matter where it is as long as it gives me some idea. My e mail address is lindley"at"privat.dk

If anyone is visiting Denmark in the summer, we have beer in the fridge and a floor to sleep on. Get in touch, you would be welcome.

 Steve


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## frank9755 (1 Nov 2010)

Yes, recumbents are welcome. I've often seen them on audaxes.

Here's a typical route sheet. Generally you can get a GPX file, either from the organisers, from another rider or with a bit of google-work beforehand. 

One of my first cycle tours was in Denmark, about 10 years ago. A loop North from Copenhagen round the coast and then back via Roskilde. I particularly remember a very chilly swim in the Baltic!


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## TheDoctor (1 Nov 2010)

Hello and 

'Bents are indeed welcome at Audaxes IME - I saw two at the Emitremmus ride yesterday.


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## Tynan (1 Nov 2010)

and I rode my first audax last weekend and despite the route card looking daunting, found it very clear and sensible to use, every single word on is there for a reason and should be treated as important clues, if they use a word to amplify the coe, it's for good reason


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## Ian H (3 Nov 2010)

Recumbents are fine. In the Uk there's even a special prize for them. Routesheets vary in quality, but generally they're okay to follow, and more and more organisers are supplying gps tracks.


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## JoysOfSight (4 Nov 2010)

I have had some trouble from a couple of audax riders while doing brevets in a reclined position. However, 99% are fine with it (in fact, I think audax riders are a lot more open to that sort of thing that the "general cycling public" are). 

More importantly though there are no problems from an organisers' point of view, in fact as Ian points out there is even a prize.

Go for it, it's ace.


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## ColinJ (4 Nov 2010)

I don't ride a recumbent but I've seen a few on audax rides. I don't mind what somebody else is riding and I'm sure that the vast majority of other riders don't either. 

I'd have thought that you were more likely to get positive attention than negative. People will be curious about your bike. 

I thought Arch's recumbent looked very nice when she rode a local event on it, though I didn't get the chance to have a really close look because I was doing the sister event which started an hour before hers.

Oh, and I'd suggest using a GPS for navigation. It allows you to enjoy the scenery without having to stare at a route sheet the whole time.



JoysOfSight said:


> I have had some trouble from a couple of audax riders while doing brevets in a reclined position.


In every walk of life, there are always one or two aren't there!


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## Arch (4 Nov 2010)

ColinJ said:


> I thought Arch's recumbent looked very nice when she rode a local event on it, though I didn't get the chance to have a really close look because I was doing the sister event which started an hour before hers.



You're welcome to inspect it more closely some time - we'll have to arrange a CC meet up halfway between my nice flat part of the world, and your mad mountainous region.... 

I've only done the one Audax so far Steve, but was warmly welcomed, and indeed spent some time at the start and finish fielding the 'usual questions'. There was one lady who remarked on how brave I was (and how strong, as she followed me uphill) - I think she thought I was disabled, a common mistake. Certainly, if she thought I was strong, she has a low benchmark of strength! I found the routesheet easy enough to follow, although I did benefit from some preparation - I followed the route on Google maps and Streetview, so that I could have a look at the junctions and recognise them in the flesh.

Not an Audax, but on a recent YACF night ride to Whitby, there were 13 of us, and 4 were on bents - not a bad ratio.


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## Tim Bennet. (4 Nov 2010)

> although I did benefit from some preparation - I followed the route on Google maps and Streetview, so that I could have a look at the junctions and recognise them in the flesh.


Good advice. I also used to mark the route on torn out pages from a cheap road atlas so I had some idea where I was in the bigger scheme of things, rather than the rather tunnel vision you get following the route sheet. 

Having 'the big picture' then makes it easier to work out a 'Plan B' if you have to cut short your day for any reason.
Which I've never had to do as like Arch, I too am strong and brave.


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## PpPete (4 Nov 2010)

I usually plot the route out on bikehike so that I can transfer it to GPS.... and as belt & braces print out a map from there as well. 

Between the GPS, the printed route sheet, and the map for the "big picture", I don't (usually) have much doubt on the route. If you want to get really clever with your Garmin you can put numbered waypoints in, and number the route sheet instructions to match.... and get the device to beep and light up as you approach each waypoint.
Much geeky discusssion of this kind of thing over on yacf.

IME Audaxes are very welcoming to all. I rode a 100 km on tandem with 9 y.o. stoker, and accompanied by 12 y.o. on solo bike, (16 y.o. son made his own way - and got thoroughly lost) but all were made very welcome. There was 'bent on that ride too.


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## Scoosh (5 Nov 2010)

There are at least 3 'bent riders doing audax rides in Scotland and my only issues with them are that

they are too quick - especially downhill




there is no point slipsteaming them - see above



there is little time to chat to them at the _arrivee_ - see 1 above




I did overtake one



going uphill on one ride ..... arrived at the top .... there was a sound like a rushing wind



.... and he was gone


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## John Ponting (5 Nov 2010)

I've recently downoaded the PC version of Anquet and purchased an OS 1:50000 GB South which covers from just above Manchester down to la Manche. I got it at 30% off in a special offer email. I had a few problems with downloading so used the 30% to pay for the CD version and postage - all in £48 with VAT. Compares extremely well with paper versions of the same coverage. I can map a route in advance and then print only the route coverage, scaled to fit from 1 to 9 A4 sheets. Also could download to a Garmin (if I had one). I also had a magazine advert with a product token that I redeemed for a full set of GB GroundRanger Regionals.


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## steveindenmark (5 Nov 2010)

Thank you for all your replies they are very helpful.

I am looking forward to having a go at this brevet lark.

Sue, I am just ordering a new, shiney Nazca Fuego and so I may be getting on your L.E.L list  

Steve


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## Arch (5 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> Sue, I am just ordering a new, shiney Nazca Fuego and so I may be getting on your L.E.L list
> 
> Steve



Yay!


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## PalmerSperry (6 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> My question is are recumbents generally welcomed at these events?



I would say so, yes ... You might even get lucky like I did on my first Audax and discover another rider with the same sort of recumbent as you!  



steveindenmark said:


> If anyone is visiting Denmark in the summer, we have beer in the fridge and a floor to sleep on. Get in touch, you would be welcome.



Tempting, but my current plans for next year are an West->East tour across Austria.


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## Ian H (7 Nov 2010)

Not that I wish to put ideas in your head, but check out some of the photos in this brochure.


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## steveindenmark (8 Nov 2010)

That looks rempting Ian but it would be a very steep learning curve considering I have never ridden a brevet, I don`t have a bike and the most I have ever ridden in one go is about 20 miles and that was about 30 years ago..

But you never know...I am just about mad enough to set it as my challenge for 2011...and then of course I will have to write the book.  

Steve


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## smutchin (8 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> I have no idea what a route plan looks like and was hoping that someone could e-mail me a copy of an old one so I can study it and work the route out on my PC.



Good idea, but bear in mind that Audax routesheets are designed to be useful from the point of view of the rider, so you might get an instruction like "R by house with white gate", which won't be obvious on a map but will make sense when you're out on the road.

(Of course, this is less of a problem these days thanks to Google Street View) 

d.


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## mcshroom (8 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> I have no idea what a route plan looks like and was hoping that someone could e-mail me a copy of an old one so I can study it and work the route out on my PC



Hi Steve

There are a few route sheets available on line, like these two here. These are permanents rather than calandar events (they can be ridden on any date) but the style is the same


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## zigzag (8 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> That looks rempting Ian but it would be a very steep learning curve considering I have never ridden a brevet, I don`t have a bike and the most I have ever ridden in one go is about 20 miles and that was about 30 years ago..
> 
> But you never know...I am just about mad enough to set it as my challenge for 2011...and then of course I will have to write the book.
> 
> Steve



i think you should be more optimistic. lel '09 was my first audax, never done a night ride before that or a distance longer than 200km. i didn't know much about cyclists clothing, food, energy bars, powder drinks etc. i still don't like them, but at least i know what i could use if going gets tough.
by this i'm not saying that lel or any other mega ride is easy - they are all hard. but the quicker and more organised you are - the easier it gets. start training for pbp *now* and you'll make it in 2011, no doubt.


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## Philip Whiteman (9 Nov 2010)

zigzag said:


> ....... lel '09 was my first audax, never done a night ride before that or a distance longer than 200km. i didn't know much about cyclists clothing, food, energy bars, powder drinks etc. i still don't like them, but at least i know what i could use if going gets tough.




Flippin Eck! I take my hat off to you. Talk about jumping in at the deep end. Clearly you survived to tell the tail.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Nov 2010)

have a word with arallsopp in these parts, he rides long distances on a recumbent for fun, has written a book about his adventures on LEL and is a ruddy nice bloke to boot.

see here for a recent exploit


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## Shut Up Legs (9 Nov 2010)

frank9755 said:


> Yes, recumbents are welcome. I've often seen them on audaxes.
> 
> Here's a typical route sheet. Generally you can get a GPX file, either from the organisers, from another rider or with a bit of google-work beforehand.
> 
> One of my first cycle tours was in Denmark, about 10 years ago. A loop North from Copenhagen round the coast and then back via Roskilde. I particularly remember a very chilly swim in the Baltic!



At my first (and so far only, yep I'm still a newbie) Audax ride last month, I saw someone riding a _folding_ bike on the ride. I didn't think they were suited to rides like this, but I guess he thought otherwise. This particular ride was 200km, and had roughly 3000m of climbing, with many hills up to 10-15% grade, so was reasonably tough to ride. I never found out how the folding bike rider went on the ride, but hope he made it through OK.


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## Greenbank (9 Nov 2010)

victor said:


> At my first (and so far only, yep I'm still a newbie) Audax ride last month, I saw someone riding a _folding_ bike on the ride. I didn't think they were suited to rides like this, but I guess he thought otherwise. This particular ride was 200km, and had roughly 3000m of climbing, with many hills up to 10-15% grade, so was reasonably tough to ride. I never found out how the folding bike rider went on the ride, but hope he made it through OK.



Someone did LEL (1400km Audax) on a Brompton. He also did lots of other long Audaxes on the same bike.


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## Arch (11 Nov 2010)

If a bike suits you, and fits you, then it's good to ride any distance.


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## PalmerSperry (12 Nov 2010)

Arch said:


> If a bike suits you, and fits you, then it's good to ride any distance.



On the 200 I attempted back in April, there was someone on an MTB ... Complete with "knobbly" tyres! (Albeit ones with a central ridge.) And he was faster than me!


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## Greenbank (12 Nov 2010)

Arch said:


> If a bike suits you, and fits you, then it's good to ride any distance.



There's no guarantee. A bike that is comfy for a 200 may be torture on a 300km ride. I've seen it happen to a few people on their first attempts at longer distances.

Those extra few hours could be enough to push your body past the limit of coping/masking an incorrectly fit/setup bike.

The only way to know is to use the same bike/setup for progressively longer and longer rides and hope that it is all ok.


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## bof (12 Nov 2010)

Greenbank said:


> There's no guarantee. A bike that is comfy for a 200 may be torture on a 300km ride. I've seen it happen to a few people on their first attempts at longer distances.
> 
> Those extra few hours could be enough to push your body past the limit of coping/masking an incorrectly fit/setup bike.
> 
> The only way to know is to use the same bike/setup for progressively longer and longer rides and hope that it is all ok.



Amen. Also of other items. I have a pair of very expensive mitts that give me blisters after around 12 hours riding. I could have used them on club runs till the cows came home and never known this. I suppose the moral is carefully build up a list of what works for you as you go further and further.


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## Threelionsbrian (16 Nov 2010)

bof said:


> Amen. Also of other items. I have a pair of very expensive mitts that give me blisters after around 12 hours riding. I could have used them on club runs till the cows came home and never known this.  I suppose the moral is carefully build up a list of what works for you as you go further and further.






It's whatever suits you IMO, damage limitation, i doubt there is suitable solution for many but as long as your legs are ok you can tinker with the rest.


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## ColinJ (16 Nov 2010)

Threelionsbrian said:


> i doubt there is suitable solution for many but as long as your legs are ok you can tinker with the rest.


I think there is more to it than just leg fitness. I've injured my legs a couple of times, but apart from those times it has always been some other part that has caused problems on long rides. Always my lower back, often my bum and sometimes my arms, shoulders or neck; a couple of times my wrists or hands.

In my case, problems are not caused by poor bike fit or inadequate cycle clothing because my longest, hardest rides carrying panniers were trouble-free (140+ mile rides with 10,000+ ft of Pennine climbing). If I'm slim (or slimmish) and fit, I can put the work in; if I'm not, it hurts - _a lot!_


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## yello (16 Nov 2010)

Greenbank said:


> Someone did LEL (1400km Audax) on a Brompton.



And 3 Moulton's started too. 2 DNF'ed but I road the last 300km or so with the last one, piloted by a chap called Simon. You can read a little about it on the Shaun Moulton's blog for the event.


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## Threelionsbrian (16 Nov 2010)

ColinJ said:


> I think there is more to it than just leg fitness. I've injured my legs a couple of times, but apart from those times it has always been some other part that has caused problems on long rides. Always my lower back, often my bum and sometimes my arms, shoulders or neck; a couple of times my wrists or hands.
> 
> In my case, problems are not caused by poor bike fit or inadequate cycle clothing because my longest, hardest rides carrying panniers were trouble-free (140+ mile rides with 10,000+ ft of Pennine climbing). If I'm slim (or slimmish) and fit, I can put the work in; if I'm not, it hurts - _a lot!_


What i was saying is that the legs are doing most of the work they need to be operating in a way that suits the rider, the aches, numbness tweaks come over time with experience. I suffer from Hands Feet and Ass badly 100k upward, sometimes the left arm goes numb back spasms knee etc but you can still turn them pedals till the energy disappears. Then you're ******  . 

I've bought some items and i'm hoping for a miracle. Not a biggy really just hope the problems cease and i lose 2 stone.


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## ColinJ (16 Nov 2010)

Threelionsbrian said:


> What i was saying is that the legs are doing most of the work they need to be operating in a way that suits the rider, the aches, numbness tweaks come over time with experience. I suffer from Hands Feet and Ass badly 100k upward, sometimes the left arm goes numb back spasms knee etc but you can still turn them pedals till the energy disappears. Then you're ******   .


I don't think I've ever managed to tire my legs out completely. I've bonked a few times but that's a different matter. Normally, it's my back that forces me off the bike to stretch and take a short rest. I could ride on the flat with backache but when faced with a 15+% hill, there is nowhere to hide from the pain!


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## steveindenmark (18 Nov 2010)

ColinJ said:


> . Always my lower back, often my bum and sometimes my arms, shoulders or neck; a couple of times my wrists or hands.




This is why I have switched to recumbents.

The trike was great because if you got tired you could just just face it into the sun, crack out a tin of beer and then have a sleep. You diddn`t even have to get up.

Steve


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## ColinJ (18 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> This is why I have switched to recumbents.
> 
> The trike was great because if you got tired you could just just face it into the sun, crack out a tin of beer and then have a sleep. You diddn`t even have to get up.
> 
> Steve


There are some downhills round here that would _really_ be fun on a recumbent trike! I don't fancy climbing on a recumbent though. I like the high position on a conventional bike for looking over walls at the scenery and I think I'd feel very nervous in traffic with the low position of a recumbent.

Most of my aches and pains pretty much disappeared when I slimmed down and got fit enough to do the hilly routes that I enjoy without exhausting myself.


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## Arch (18 Nov 2010)

ColinJ said:


> I don't think I've ever managed to tire my legs out completely. I've bonked a few times but that's a different matter. Normally, it's my back that forces me off the bike to stretch and take a short rest. I could ride on the flat with backache but when faced with a 15+% hill, there is nowhere to hide from the pain!




That really is a very stupid place to live....


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## zigzag (18 Nov 2010)

ColinJ said:


> Most of my aches and pains pretty much disappeared when I slimmed down and got fit enough to do the hilly routes that I enjoy without exhausting myself.



thats very true, the fitter you are, the more comfortable it is to ride. knee and achilles pains are usually due to untrained legs, unsuitable saddle position (fore/aft/up/down), misaligned cleats, back pain is because of weak core muscles (no counteraction to leg muscles). shoulder and wrist pain is because the handlebars and saddle are too far forward or at incorrect angle and neck pain because of weak muscles or/and handlebars too low.


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## steveindenmark (19 Nov 2010)

Colin,

I only had my trike for 6 months and never had any trouble in traffic. It was like half the size of a mini so I was difficult to miss. I think the low down aspect is always a bit of a misconception. I think you are actually seen more because you are so unusual.

As I say I only had mine for 6 months and so maybe ARCH can give us her view on this.

My new 2 wheel recumbent will have 26 inch wheels on front and back and so I should be easier to see than a DF bike.

Steve


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## Arch (19 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> Colin,
> 
> I only had my trike for 6 months and never had any trouble in traffic. It was like half the size of a mini so I was difficult to miss. I think the low down aspect is always a bit of a misconception. I think you are actually seen more because you are so unusual.
> 
> ...




Arch says, like pretty much every recumbent rider she's ever talked to, that she gets seen much better on the trike - seen AND NOTICED! And usually passed with plenty of room - most cars on rural roads cross entirely to the other side to pass.

On a recumbent, sometimes you wish you could be seen a bit less - you have to be a bit of an extrovert to ride one, and happy to have random strangers come up to you and talk about it.


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