# Riding with no hands !!!



## TheCyclingRooster (31 May 2018)

Hi to you all out there. Yes,I am fully aware that it is not advised never mind it could be risky but in my younger years it was as easy as licking an ice cream.
I was able to achieve it on both fixed wheel and on my regular rode bike but I am blowed if I can these days albeit they are different bikes and I am pushing the door of 73 years young.
I have attached two profile images - one of each bike to see if anyone can see something that I am missing.


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## steveindenmark (31 May 2018)

Im 60 and wont attempt it. I came off last year and spent 4 days in hospital. I dont bounce as well as I once did.


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## ianrauk (31 May 2018)

Just need more practice


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## Drago (31 May 2018)

I think having a large ginger Tom attached to your rear wheel is upsetting the balance. Having a child's bucket attached to one pedal won't be helping either.


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## Globalti (31 May 2018)

I'm 62 and I often do it just to be able to sit up and shake out my hands. I have even removed a rain cape but I stopped doing that when I realised that for as long as you are taking to free one hand from the cuff, your hands are locked out of reach of the bars!

I think it's to do with speed and hence gyroscopic action keeping the front wheel on a steady line because I can't ride no-handed at slow speeds. Don't forget also that in olden days bikes had much heavier wheels, longer wheelbases and more caster, making them far more stable than today's finely-tuned machines.


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## Buck (31 May 2018)

I can’t master it. I have to stop to zip up my jacket sometimes when it would be great just to quickly sort it whilst still moving. I used to be able to do this when younger but I think my skills of youth have faded away in this regard.


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## ColinJ (31 May 2018)

Globalti said:


> I'm 62 and I often do it just to be able to sit up and shake out my hands. I have even removed a rain cape but I stopped doing that when I realised that for as long as you are taking to free one hand from the cuff, your hands are locked out of reach of the bars!


Andrei Kivilev died in 2003 after an accident in the Paris-Nice race. IIRC, he was riding no hands at the time, fiddling with the radio in his back pocket.

I have seen a rider remove his jacket when riding no-handed, and getting a sleeve caught in the rear wheel.

I am happy to ride one-handed but I'd rather not take the chance of riding with no hands on the bars.


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## Milkfloat (31 May 2018)

I am happy to remove clothing (my own) no handed, but have not managed putting things on, other than arm warmers. My main concern is not the balance and practice required, but the pot holes and potential traffic.


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## Drago (31 May 2018)

I like the giant sausage roll strapped under the seat.


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## wonderloaf (31 May 2018)

Drago said:


> I like the giant sausage roll strapped under the seat.


Nah that's a burrito.


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## Bollo (31 May 2018)

I can do it reasonably confidently but don’t often try putting jackets on and off for the usual reasons - potholes, bunnies, deer, cars etc. I’ve heard of (but not seen) sleeves dangling in the wheels causing offs.


User13710 said:


> I think it's mostly about the bike, but having seen someone chin the road following an unplanned front-wheel/sleeve interface I'm not keen to test the changing clothes without stopping thing.


Bikes certainly make a difference, although I couldn’t give a single reason why - I suppose geometry, headsets and wheels all have some influence. My old Litespeed road bike is very twitchy and I don’t often take both hands off, but the vanity bike is fine despite being a full-on race geometry.


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## Smokin Joe (31 May 2018)

The technique is to sit upright with a straight back and look ahead as you do when you are riding normally. Crouching forward with your hands hovering over the bars unbalances you, and looking down at the front wheel has you wandering all over the road.

I've never found any difference in riding hands off no matter what type of bike I've been on. A bicycle does not need a pair of hands on the bars to stay upright or go in a straight line, both of those are controlled by your body posture and balance.


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## Vantage (31 May 2018)

I've never been good at no handed riding but I can do it. The Dawes Vantage however was a pig to handle even with both hands on the bars and damn near impossible no handed.
The Raleigh had a head tube so steep that it followed the smallest contour in the road like it was on tram tracks.
The Spa was a refreshing surprise as on my very first test ride, I was able to let go of the bars and just coast along. I could even pedal no handed although I didn't feel brave enough to test for how far I could go.
Rider skill is an important factor but if the bike handles like a one legged drugged up pig, it ain't easy.


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## TheCyclingRooster (31 May 2018)

Globalti said:


> I'm 62 and I often do it just to be able to sit up and shake out my hands. I have even removed a rain cape but I stopped doing that when I realised that for as long as you are taking to free one hand from the cuff, your hands are locked out of reach of the bars!
> 
> I think it's to do with speed and hence gyroscopic action keeping the front wheel on a steady line because I can't ride no-handed at slow speeds. Don't forget also that in olden days bikes had much heavier wheels, longer wheelbases and more caster, making them far more stable than today's finely-tuned machines.



Hi Globalti. I have a funny feeling that you are correct here and it is more about speed than anything else but I am not so sure about the longer wheelbases nor the heavier wheels either.

How do you account for the professional riders of today riding with apparent ease and performing gymnastis including the removal and refitting of their various items of gear. They are riding bikes that are so light that they often beggar belief.

I am relating back to the late 50's/early 60's when I had my 1937 Hetchins Curly track frame and rode fixed wheel for many years before having the rear stays widened and Campagnolo road dropouts inserted to take a a five speed block with a double Stronglight up front.
I also rode very lightweight wheels (Asp rims and Tubulars) with Aerolite large flange hubs.
The wheels on both my bikes are Mavic Aksium Race on Mavic Cartridge Hubs with bladed spokes - so in real terms little has change as far as weight goes.
I have even tried moving the saddles back a touch on their rails but that did not improve matters at all. Indeed the Hetchins complete with the oversize cape roll and spare tubular (of the period) rode perfectly balanced when being ridden with no hands.
.


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## Jody (31 May 2018)

User13710 said:


> I think it's mostly about the bike,



Agreed. My road bike is really twitchy riding no hands but the MTB is very stable. Seems the more slack your head angle the more stability you have.


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## TheCyclingRooster (31 May 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> The technique is to sit upright with a straight back and look ahead as you do when you are riding normally. Crouching forward with your hands hovering over the bars unbalances you, and looking down at the front wheel has you wandering all over the road.
> 
> I've never found any difference in riding hands off no matter what type of bike I've been on. A bicycle does not need a pair of hands on the bars to stay upright or go in a straight line, both of those are controlled by your body posture and balance.



Hi Sj. Yes I am familiar with the technique - some things never leave the memory bank. I don't believe that it is a wheel base related issue or a castor action (not gyroscopic) that is influencing the inability to handle the current bikes 'hands-off' as was previously suggested.
The wheel bases on both my current bikes are both 975mm - indeed I rather think that my old Hetchins was very very close to that anyway.


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## Racing roadkill (31 May 2018)

It was ‘well sick’ when I used to do it when I was a five year old, now I just think it makes whoever’s doing it look like a five year old.


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## GilesM (31 May 2018)

Sorry, can't offer any advice on how to ride no hands, I still find it very easy, but I could never explain how to do it. What I'm interested to know is did you just lose the ability to do it, or do you think it was just because you didn't try for a long time, it's funny, as I get older (I'm only 53 right now) I do wonder, will there be a point in time when I can no longer do this sort of stuff, or perhaps even more worrying, when I no longer want to try.


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## Siclo (31 May 2018)

Weight distribution plays a big part, as I re-discovered recently when riding with no hands and leaned over a touch to take a corner, unfortunately I'd forgot about the two fully loaded panniers and rack bag I'd got on and not a lot happened other than nearly finishing up in the ship canal


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## GilesM (31 May 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> It was ‘well sick’ when I used to do it when I was a five year old, now I just think it makes whoever’s doing it look like a five year old.



If I still put my arms out like wings, made engine noises, and pretended I was a plane, I might agree, but normally I do it for slightly more practical reasons these days.


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## Smokin Joe (31 May 2018)

Racing roadkill said:


> It was ‘well sick’ when I used to do it when I was a five year old, now I just think it makes whoever’s doing it look like a five year old.


It's great for easing the back muscles after a long climb.


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## Bollo (31 May 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's great for easing the back muscles after a long climb.


Ha, I’ve never given it much thought but I do that.


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## viniga (31 May 2018)

Perhaps is a mental block thing... attitude to risk when 6 may be a bit different at 60...?

I do it for short periods but am not very good and don't want to practice :-)


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## Jody (31 May 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> It's great for easing the back muscles after a long climb.



Or for getting flies out of your helmet before you get bit/stung.


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## rrarider (31 May 2018)

When I was young, it was an essential skill to have, in order to light a cigarette without stopping. Since I gave up smoking several years ago, I don't cycle 'no hands' much these days.


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## Smokin Joe (31 May 2018)

rrarider said:


> When I was young, it was an essential skill to have, in order to light a cigarette without stopping. Since I gave up smoking several years ago, I don't cycle 'no hands' much these days.


How the hell can you write a text message without riding no-hands? Fair enough in the car when you can hold the steering wheel between your knees, but on a bike...


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## dantheman (31 May 2018)

I can't do it for more than a couple of seconds, sure it's just lack of confidence but I don't really care. There's a guy round here who rides around town constantly no hands, usually with only one or no feet on pedals as he "dances and points?" at everyone - he loves the attention but annoys me as in traffic you get stuck behind him doing 4mph.. Saw a young lad yesterday cross a busy junction in traffic with food in one hand and texting with the other (no eyes on road/traffic).


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## slowmotion (31 May 2018)

I could do it easily when I was a kid but I can't manage more than a few seconds without funking it now. I can see how it might be useful sometimes. See 1:01 on this clip...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO7_Fq56g2c


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## Racing roadkill (31 May 2018)

viniga said:


> Perhaps is a mental block thing... attitude to risk when 6 may be a bit different at 60...?
> 
> I do it for short periods but am not very good and don't want to practice :-)


Spot on.


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## Lonestar (31 May 2018)

No I won't do it.....Fell off in February and my knee is buggered now so I don't need to be asking for trouble....I remember doing it when I was much younger and if it ever went tits up we were quite fast in recovering...but not now....Although I understand the logic of why the young 'uns do it nowadays just like I did then.


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## slowmotion (31 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> No I won't do it.....Fell off in February and my knee is buggered now so I don't need to be asking for trouble....I remember doing it when I was much younger and if it ever went tits up we were quite fast in recovering...but not now....Although I understand the logic of why the young 'uns do it nowadays.


Round here, young riders do it so they can roll spliffs while riding down the wrong side of the road. I can't help admiring their ability to multi-task.


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## Bazzer (31 May 2018)

Dead easy when younger. Used to challenge myself how far I could ride or how sharp a corner I could take. Nowadays, only a few seconds. Keep trying to work out if it's because I am now older and lack of balance or lack of invincibility of youth.

BTW nIce Bianchi. Personal opinion of course, but I think much prettier than celeste.


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## Lonestar (31 May 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Round here, young riders do it so they can roll spliffs while riding down the wrong side of the road. I can't help admiring their ability to multi-task.



Round here young riders do it while snorting coke.Must say I'm not too impressed.


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## slowmotion (31 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> Round here young riders do it while snorting coke.Must say I'm not too impressed.


I'm a bit out of touch with the price of recreational drugs these days. Is your neighbourhood more or less affluent than mine?


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## Dave7 (31 May 2018)

TheCyclingRooster said:


> Hi to you all out there. Yes,I am fully aware that it is not advised never mind it could be risky but in my younger years it was as easy as licking an ice cream.
> I was able to achieve it on both fixed wheel and on my regular rode bike but I am blowed if I can these days albeit they are different bikes and I am pushing the door of 73 years young.
> I have attached two profile images - one of each bike to see if anyone can see something that I am missing.
> View attachment 411920
> View attachment 411921


I am 71 now. By coincidence I was only thinking (3 days ago) of when I were nowt burra whippersnapper how we practiced that art and mastered it so that I could ride along the street and turn corners........all with no hands. I "sort of" tried it the other day by lifting my hands clear by a few mm..........then thankfully bottled out. As @steveindenmark said (and I say it often) I don't bounce like I used to.

BTW................that Bianchi flat bar looks very nice. What is it?


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## toffee (31 May 2018)

Just come back from Holland where every other teenager was cycling around with no hands as they were texting


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## Profpointy (31 May 2018)

I think it depends a lot on the bike. I never could do it as a kid on the (crap) raleigh folding shopping bike my Dad insisted on getting me adding another bit of envy looking at my pals riding jo handed on their racers weighing half what mine weighed. Even my modern Thorn tourer is tricky yet my more sporty Condor is easy


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## TheCyclingRooster (31 May 2018)

Dave7 said:


> I am 71 now. By coincidence I was only thinking (3 days ago) of when I were nowt burra whippersnapper how we practiced that art and mastered it so that I could ride along the street and turn corners........all with no hands. I "sort of" tried it the other day by lifting my hands clear by a few mm..........then thankfully bottled out. As @steveindenmark said (and I say it often) I don't bounce like I used to.
> 
> BTW................that Bianchi flat bar looks very nice. What is it?



Hi Dave. It is a 50cm Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Alu Carbon and was built by me on a naked frame last year using Mavic Aksium rims and Mavic Aksium cartridge hubs. The drivetrain is a 10spd Campagnolo Veloce with brand new levers and a triple Stronglight ring set-up on Thorn (SJS Cycles) 140mm cranks.
The stopping power is provided with Tektro short drop callipers.
The pedals are my trusty Marcel Berthet Lyotard Platform Pedals with Christophe toeclips and QR leather straps. The ride is really something quite different but very similar to that which I experienced with a brand new 2010 52cm Claud Butler Levente that I sold simply 




because it was just outside of my comfort zone when coming to a halt without a kerb edge to reach out for.


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## classic33 (1 Jun 2018)

GilesM said:


> If I still put my arms out like wings, made engine noises, and pretended I was a plane, I might agree, but normally I do it for slightly more practical reasons these days.


Can planes fly backwards?


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## Jimidh (1 Jun 2018)

It’s a confidence thing - if you know you can do it it’s pretty easy so long as you keep your speed up and sit pretty upright.

It’s a skill i’ve managed to hold onto but don’t ask me to do a wheelie now even though we were always riding along on one wheel when I was a teenager.


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## mikeymustard (1 Jun 2018)

I was only thinking yesterday that I've not seen anyone riding no handed for ages and three passed me in the space of 10 mins; two of them were youngsters on vintage racers (so that was nice). You can tell it's half term


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## Biker Joe (1 Jun 2018)

To ride no hands you need to sit well back on the saddle and in an upright position with the weight over the back wheel. I can do it but it's not a safe way to ride. and don't feel the need to.


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## rrarider (1 Jun 2018)

I wish that I had never seen this thread. I still have my 1980s conventionally shaped bike, which I know I can easily ride with no hands, if I sit up straight and go at a reasonable speed. A little while ago I bought a Raleigh Shopper, just to use for short shopping trips and with it's small wheels it's always seemed a bit wobbly. Despite this, since reading this thread, I got to thinking 'I wonder if ...?'.

I'm so glad that I spotted this on a Sheldon Brown page:
_
The stock Raleigh Twenty headset uses the same bottom section as other Nottingham 3-speeds, with 25 5/32" balls, but the upper headset uses a nylon bushing.The extra friction of this bushing plus the geometry of the stock fork generally make it impossible to ride a stock Twenty no-hands. Replacing the upper headset solves this problem._

I'm not even going to try it; I've had one serious injury in a bike accident, I don't want another.


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## Salty seadog (1 Jun 2018)

I can and do at times on all my bikes however the Forme hardtail after 7 years has developed the need to create a speed wobble if I go no handed at over 17/18mph. Still it's a reliable way to demonstrate a wobble to anyone and the only bike I've had that has done it.


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## TheCyclingRooster (1 Jun 2018)

Bazzer said:


> Dead easy when younger. Used to challenge myself how far I could ride or how sharp a corner I could take. Nowadays, only a few seconds. Keep trying to work out if it's because I am now older and lack of balance or lack of invincibility of youth.
> 
> BTW nIce Bianchi. Personal opinion of course, but I think much prettier than celeste.



Hi Bazzer and Dave,I had a 50cm Celeste with a exceptionaly good spec including Campy and a pair of 'Wing' bars but all of the visible alloy was black and that included the hubs and the spokes and the original Campy double (later changed to a Stronglight triple) I could not bring myself to stripping it and turning it into a Flatbar Hybrid hence the seeking out of a totally naked frame.


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## Alan O (1 Jun 2018)

I can fall off when stationary with both hands firmly on the bars - so I'm certainly not going to try taking my hands off when moving!


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## si_c (1 Jun 2018)

I can do it easily enough, although I find an MTB with wider tyres makes it easier. Often do it to stretch out on a longer ride, but only where I can see that the road surface is good for a reasonable distance, I'm not a big fan of the unpredictable wobble you get when crashing through potholes no handed.


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## Tenacious Sloth (1 Jun 2018)

I’ve discovered that I can effortlessly ride no-handed on my new Kinesis - something I have to concentrate very hard to do on my CAADX and Merida.

The difference is that the Kinesis has a more relaxed fork angle, just like the Carlton Continental I rode no-handed most of the time as a kid.

Graham


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## TheCyclingRooster (1 Jun 2018)

Alan O said:


> I can fall off when stationary with both hands firmly on the bars - so I'm certainly not going to try taking my hands off when moving!



Hi Alan. How are you remaining stationary ? Are both feet on the pedals ? Are you leaning on something for support or are you performinga 'Track Stand' ?


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## Ian H (1 Jun 2018)

I had one 1960s frame, built-up as a fixed, which was impossible to ride no-handed until I changed the hugely raked forks for a much steeper set. After that it was fine. 

It's a useful skill if you're on the road for a long time. The danger is not being no-handed, but not looking where you are going because you're distracted by something. You should still be able to steer round obstacles no-handed.

One thing that does help is good core strength.


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## craigwend (1 Jun 2018)

For me it's a headset thing ... some just seem 'twitchy' 
I can on two ~one always, the other (Mtb) I never could before having the headset replaced (due to neglect) &, I can now  
The other .. never & have tried ~ just too twitchy


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## Randombiker9 (1 Jun 2018)

I don't attempt it, you don't want to risk putting yourself in danger or danger to other road users. 

Also highway code suggests you should: 

" keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling "


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## Tenacious Sloth (1 Jun 2018)

Randombiker9 said:


> I don't attempt it, you don't want to risk putting yourself in danger or danger to other road users.
> 
> Also highway code suggests you should:
> 
> " keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling *or blowing snot rockets to clear unwanted drafters*"



FTFY


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## Randombiker9 (1 Jun 2018)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> FTFY


? you added that bold point and what do you mean by FTFY


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## Tenacious Sloth (1 Jun 2018)

Sorry, it was a joke.

FTFY stands for 'fixed that for you'


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## fatjel (1 Jun 2018)

It's quite tricky on my Bacchetta recumbent.


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## theclaud (1 Jun 2018)

Randombiker9 said:


> I don't attempt it, you don't want to risk putting yourself in danger or danger to other road users.
> 
> Also highway code suggests you should:
> 
> " keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling "


Where's the fun in that?


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## Levo-Lon (2 Jun 2018)

Usually the main thing that makes riding no hands difficult is tight or worn head race bearings.
The bars need to rotate effortlessly, no tight spots.

I often ride sat up to rest my neck and shoulders.


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## slowmotion (3 Jun 2018)

toffee said:


> Just come back from Holland where every other teenager was cycling around with no hands as they were texting


I was passed, at speed, by a roadie on the steepest hill in Richmond Park using both hands to do stuff on his mobile. I learned the meaning of true hatred.


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## Lonestar (6 Jun 2018)

slowmotion said:


> I'm a bit out of touch with the price of recreational drugs these days. Is your neighbourhood more or less affluent than mine?



Actually I was joshing.Haven't seen that yet.AFAIR.I wouldn't be surprised though.


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## Ascent (6 Jun 2018)

I used to do it all the time when I was 16. Don't do it now normally but found myself doing it today cycling back from Cambridge. I was on the guided busway route, I'd never do it on the road, and it was just to relieve a few muscles as I was doing a much longer route than I normally do.


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## Specialeyes (6 Jun 2018)

Purely coincidentally I happened to try this yesterday on the High Peak Trail on the Hetchins. Don't know why it occurred to me to re-learn it but like most folks, I was in the '_I used to do this all the time when I was 16, surely it can't be that hard 34 years later?_' camp. True enough, it wasn't. Once I'd got past a couple of crouched attempts with hands hovering over the bars it was a question of just sitting upright and bloody well getting on with it. 

I should probably get out more, as it was really fun!


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## Ajax Bay (6 Jun 2018)

Bollo said:


> I suppose geometry, headsets and wheels all have some influence.


Riding 'no hands' requires the rider's commitment to lean back (ie no hands hovering over the bars) and "Geometry" (and a normally functioning headset).
Reposting from a post 20 months ago, quote from Touring Bikes by Tony Oliver:
"A bike designed with neutral steering eg many touring and expedition bikes, should be extremely difficult to ride 'no-hands'. Their [combination of] offset/head tube angle is deliberately chosen so that steering is unaffected (or at least affected only a small amount and not enough to allow easy/safe 'no-hands'). However a racing bike should be very responsive to leaning and therefore relatively easy to steer no-hands. Also one's weight must be well back, but of course this means one is further away from the 'safety' of grabbing the bars."
Like [others] I suspect that the natural reduction in risk tolerance that most experience/exhibit with advancing years means we get caught in the too far forward and, on a relaxed geometry bike 'no man's land', this manifests as loss of ability.
Christmastime @kingrollo thread: Admission-i-cant-ride-no-hands
and a few posts therefrom:


I like Skol said:


> YES I CAN! Happily remove/refit gloves, answer the phone, scratch my ##### chin, do the Bolt point, fumble in back pocket for a snack or just sit back and soak up the ambiance. If you can do it then you know that actually you can have your hands back on the bars in a split second should the need arise (apart from the two arms stuck in the sleeves of a jacket scenario, which needs to be performed on a quiet, straight road).





YukonBoy said:


> Tried today, still got it and managed about 800 metres before it was time to get the hands back on and go a little faster.





Racing roadkill said:


> The first time I realised I could ride ‘no handed’ was when a prat in a w**k panzer cut me up, when I was about thirteen years old, and I was wildly gesticulating, and giving him some fine ‘Ja Volls’, and I realised I had both hands off of the bars. I’ve never needed it since, but it’s nice to know, I could if I needed to.


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## ActivR (8 Jun 2018)

Very simple, but each bike travels differently.
First of all, you must have the right speed - then you have almost nothing to do.
I used to think that it requires acrobatic balancing ability.


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## Smokin Joe (8 Jun 2018)

ActivR said:


> Very simple, but each bike travels differently.
> First of all, you must have the right speed - then you have almost nothing to do.
> I used to think that it requires acrobatic balancing ability.


Wait till you get to my age - standing up requires acrobatic balancing ability


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## Jimidh (8 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> Wait till you get to my age - standing up requires acrobatic balancing ability



This time on a Friday night also requires the same acrobatic balancing ability!!


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## DRM (11 Jun 2018)

Specialeyes said:


> Purely coincidentally I happened to try this yesterday on the High Peak Trail on the Hetchins. Don't know why it occurred to me to re-learn it but like most folks, I was in the '_I used to do this all the time when I was 16, surely it can't be that hard 34 years later?_' camp. True enough, it wasn't. Once I'd got past a couple of crouched attempts with hands hovering over the bars it was a question of just sitting upright and bloody well getting on with it.
> 
> I should probably get out more, as it was really fun!


Me too, I used to ride no hands quite easily as a yoof, however as others have said thirty odd years later you know that you don't bounce like you used to do, but whilst out (off road, but tarmac lane) on my MTB I kept having a go till I cracked it, had a few goes Saturday & Sunday on the roadie till I cracked it on that too, I think on a road bike there's a confidence issue due to being leaned further forward, so the grown up, don't be stupid part of your brain makes it seem a long way to sit upright & balance properly, where as on an MTB or hybrid you are sat more upright to start with.


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## Serge (13 Jun 2018)

I tried it yesterday and my five year old daughter told me off!


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