# upgrading brompton b75



## yoho oy (9 Aug 2021)

Newbie here. I was looking for long time at Brompton for a long time, but never dared to pay so much money for a bike. But I am warming up to the idea of it. Unfortunately back in a day when I was looking at Bromptons, 3 speed bikes were at £1000 +, now even entry level B75 went up £100 to £850. At this point it should be called B85, not B75. In any case, I was wondering would it be possible to upgrade B75 to M3L equivalent and would it be worth more than £1290? I don't care much about seat, post or steering wheel upgrade, I think for a while it would be just fine. Folding pedal is not such a big issue either. I think the easiest parts are mudguards addition, but what I don't understand is shifters and brake parts. What exact parts would I need? Does anyone have issues with standard B75 shifter?


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## Tenkaykev (10 Aug 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Newbie here. I was looking for long time at Brompton for a long time, but never dared to pay so much money for a bike. But I am warming up to the idea of it. Unfortunately back in a day when I was looking at Bromptons, 3 speed bikes were at £1000 +, now even entry level B75 went up £100 to £850. At this point it should be called B85, not B75. In any case, I was wondering would it be possible to upgrade B75 to M3L equivalent and would it be worth more than £1290? I don't care much about seat, post or steering wheel upgrade, I think for a while it would be just fine. Folding pedal is not such a big issue either. I think the easiest parts are mudguards addition, but what I don't understand is shifters and brake parts. What exact parts would I need? Does anyone have issues with standard B75 shifter?


Take a look at Brilliant Bikes YouTube channel. There’s a wealth of extremely useful Brompton specific information and tutorials on there, including a detailed explanation of the differences between the B75 and the “ standard “ model.


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## alicat (10 Aug 2021)

All the B75 parts were standard in their day. If you're hankering for a Brompton, buy a B75 and upgrade anything you don't get on with. And remember, you're in the happy position of not having owned a 'better' Brompton so everything will probably feel just fine.


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## Kell (10 Aug 2021)

yoho oy said:


> In any case, I was wondering would it be possible to upgrade B75 to M3L equivalent.



*Yes.*



yoho oy said:


> and would it be worth more than £1290?



*Worth it to who? *

It will be pitched at a price point that means you can't buy the cheaper bike and then upgrade it and it be worth more/the same as the bike you're copying - especially if you don't do everything. 

As said above if you can get hold of a B75, run it, and upgrade the bits and pieces you don't like then that would probably be the most cost-effective way to do it.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

Kell said:


> Worth it to who?


Sorry, wrong expression. What I was trying to say is that I am looking cheapest entry to brompton world, but prefer buying brand new, rather than used (warranty, some sort of trial insurance (one national bike chain), payment plan etc. I actually never rode any type of brompton and might even like B75 as it is. The only upgrade that I would do for sure is adding mudguards. On other hand when just doing some math trying to mach specifications of more expensive model, it seems that £850 is just too steep starting price, especially when looking at availability of some parts and price increase on them. £750 would give more room between B75 and M3L model.


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## rogerzilla (12 Aug 2021)

You can sometimes find mudguards cheap on eBay. I got a full set of unused ones with Ti stays for £25 a couple of months ago. They were just missing the s/s clamps that hold the stays to the blades, but I had these already from a battered set. They can be bought as spares anyway.


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## alicat (12 Aug 2021)

You can make a case for a Brompton B75 being too expensive at £850; however, unless you can persuade a vendor to give you a discount £850 is what you will have to pay. And some vendors will give a discount for having a membership card such as Cycling UK or just for asking nicely. 

Why not go test ride one, you will love it or hate it and your problem will be solved either way....


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## Kell (12 Aug 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Sorry, wrong expression. What I was trying to say is that I am looking cheapest entry to brompton world, but prefer buying brand new, rather than used (warranty, some sort of trial insurance (one national bike chain), payment plan etc. I actually never rode any type of brompton and might even like B75 as it is. The only upgrade that I would do for sure is adding mudguards. On other hand when just doing some math trying to mach specifications of more expensive model, it seems that £850 is just too steep starting price, especially when looking at availability of some parts and price increase on them. £750 would give more room between B75 and M3L model.



I see what you mean now.

IMHO The brakes would be a worthwhile upgrade from the outset, and if you need mudguards then that's a must (I wouldn't run mine without them in the UK).

However, once the bike is yours, you can mod it in any way you see fit - so you don't have to go for Brompton brakes. I know other people have upgraded levers to non-oem parts and if you really wanted to you can fit pretty much anything (@chriscross1966 has some very exotic Campagnolo calipers and levers on (one of) his).

Even at £850 there's still a fair amount of wiggle room to get to the £1,290 that the M3L is.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> You can sometimes find mudguards cheap on eBay. I got a full set of unused ones with Ti stays for £25 a couple of months ago. They were just missing the s/s clamps that hold the stays to the blades, but I had these already from a battered set. They can be bought as spares anyway.


It seems at the moment everyone is cashing in on parts shortage. Just a month +/- ago almost everyone were very low on brand new bromptons too. Now it seems they are coming back to main brompton website and other big box stores.


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## Kell (12 Aug 2021)

alicat said:


> You can make a case for a Brompton B75 being too expensive at £850; however, unless you can persuade a vendor to give you a discount £850 is what you will have to pay. And some vendors will give a discount for having a membership card such as Cycling UK or just for asking nicely.
> 
> Why not go test ride one, you will love it or hate it and your problem will be solved either way....



Don't you get a discount at Halfords for being a member of British Cycling? And if you do, does it apply to bikes? 

Or, can you get one through a ride-to-work scheme?


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## rogerzilla (12 Aug 2021)

The brakes don't need upgrading. I mean, my S6L has the old single-pivot rear brake (used until about 2008) and it works fine.

You are sort of stuck with Brompton brakes because they are bottom-pull. They are a bit cheesy with the hex nuts and bright zinc plated parts, and the lack of a QR function is really annoying, but they will stop you very quickly.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

Well, I am looking at the payment plan thing... It seems B75 is offered on long term 0% APR in just one place. Brompton website does not offer financing for B75. Halfords do just 3 month 0%. Ride to work... Most people at work just bought bags on their own, so not sure on RTW scheme, but worth to check on that one...


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## Kell (12 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> The brakes don't need upgrading. I mean, my S6L has the old single-pivot rear brake (used until about 2008) and it works fine.
> 
> *You are sort of stuck with Brompton brakes* because they are bottom-pull. They are a bit cheesy with the hex nuts and bright zinc plated parts, and the lack of a QR function is really annoying, but they will stop you very quickly.




Really? (apologies to @chriscross1966 for stealing his image).










Also - I ran a hire Brompton for a month before buying mine. It had the old style levers and while they worked, they're nowhere near as good as the latter units. 

That said, I still think the addition of discs would be an improvement over rims - especially in the winter.


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## l4dva (12 Aug 2021)

I test rode a S6L today from the brompton store in covent garden..... actually a really great bike!! i was expecting it to feel super sluggish and wobbly with the little wheels but it wasn't. Even after riding into London on my nice lightweight carbon road bike it still felt good. 

They are pricey, but now I'm very tempted to buy one. I think i need more time on one to figure out exactly the spec/options i'd want though.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

Kell said:


> Really? (apologies to @chriscross1966 for stealing his image).
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 603774


I think these kind of upgrades defy the purpose of folding bike. The only reason I am looking into brompton is because it folds very neatly and it is light bike. On other hand If I was able to have non foldable bike, then I would go for something inexpensive like halfords bottom of the range. Some of them have luggage racks, probably relatively safe to lock up outside and relatively reliable daily commuters.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

l4dva said:


> They are pricey, but now I'm very tempted to buy one. I think i need more time on one to figure out exactly the spec/options i'd want though.


The same with me. There are so many choices... I need to test one and also I might see if a few hundred quid foldable could work for me too.


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## yoho oy (12 Aug 2021)

Perhaps I need to reassess if I need a brompton to begin with. Might be £170 argos foldable could work too... Comes with mudguards and 6 speeds too!


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## cougie uk (12 Aug 2021)

Even if you didn't get on with your Brompton you can sell it in for a decent price. You won't lose much at all.


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## mitchibob (13 Aug 2021)

l4dva said:


> I test rode a S6L today from the brompton store in covent garden..... actually a really great bike!! i was expecting it to feel super sluggish and wobbly with the little wheels but it wasn't. Even after riding into London on my nice lightweight carbon road bike it still felt good.



Definitely. Trying the S model probably helped there. I liked the M bars for a long time, then after getting a road bike to be able to stick on a turbo, just in case lockdown prevented going out to train, my M6L felt a little too Mary Poppins, so switched it to JK Ergo S bars, and now feels just that little bit more natural position again, and still love riding, plus it's way more practical for shopping, etc.

Actually, luggage carrying for shopping or bike-packing is just way easier for me on Brompton than road bike, as I have small size frame, and have ruined one 14L backloader from it rubbing on the rear (never an issue with the brommie), but also just due to way front luggage is attached to the frame, so that it doesn't really affect handling.



l4dva said:


> They are pricey, but now I'm very tempted to buy one. I think i need more time on one to figure out exactly the spec/options i'd want though.



They are pricey, especially when compared to what the same cash can buy you in road bike terms. However, the practicality and fun? I still think my M6L (well, now a sorta S6L) is the best bike I've ever owned. But you definitely want to also budget to get some luggage, as it really does increase it's practicality no end.


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## 12boy (14 Aug 2021)

I don't think basic Bromptons are all that expensive. Arguably the best at multimodal transport, great for errands and shopping, handmade frames and very stout and durable hinges. The theme or boutique ones with jazzier paint, not so much. Resale very good, too.


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## mitchibob (15 Aug 2021)

12boy said:


> I don't think basic Bromptons are all that expensive. Arguably the best at multimodal transport, great for errands and shopping, handmade frames and very stout and durable hinges. The theme or boutique ones with jazzier paint, not so much. Resale very good, too.



Reassuringly expensive is probably what I should've said ;-)


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## rogerzilla (23 Aug 2021)

Saw one in Halfords today. Add mudguards and some half decent pedals, and you have an M3L from a few years ago, in a nice colour. If I were in the market for an M-type and didn't have time to wait for a small ads bargain (I've never paid over £350 for a used one, and I've bought four over the years), I'd buy a B75 over an eBay M3L, any day.


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## Tenkaykev (23 Aug 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Saw one in Halfords today. Add mudguards and some half decent pedals, and you have an M3L from a few years ago, in a nice colour. If I were in the market for an M-type and didn't have time to wait for a small ads bargain (I've never paid over £350 for a used one, and I've bought four over the years), I'd buy a B75 over an eBay M3L, any day.


It’s good to see supply picking up. It was frustrating to see speculators buying up stock just to resell on eebay. I do like the colour of the B75


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## mitchibob (23 Aug 2021)

As I'm moving to Wales, might just have to sell my M2L, and just get a 2-speed back wheel to put in the, currently, S6L, just in case Urban Hill Climb happens. It's just that it was my first new bike in about 25 years. Has sentimental value, even if the 6-speed has done more of the kilometres. I guess it makes it less worn out though.


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## Tupsy (18 Sep 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Newbie here. I was looking for a long time at Bromptons but never dared to pay so much money for a bike. But I am warming up to the idea of it. Unfortunately back in a day when I was looking at Bromptons, 3 speed bikes were at £1000 +, now even entry level B75 went up £100 to £850. At this point it should be called B85, not B75. In any case, I was wondering would it be possible to upgrade B75 to M3L equivalent and would it be worth more than £1290? I don't care much about seat, post or steering wheel upgrade, I think for a while it would be just fine. Folding pedal is not such a big issue either. I think the easiest parts are mudguards addition, but what I don't understand is shifters and brake parts. What exact parts would I need? Does anyone have issues with standard B75 shifter?


I bought a B75 in March this year. I loved the idea of the Brompton and wanted one but psychologically couldn't justify the price (or more accurately couldn't justify it to my wife 🤔) then I found that my local Halfords had one tucked away in in their back room. I had the £850 and was able to swing it with my wife and one click and collect later I had my very own Brompton! I have to stress I've never even ridden a Brompton before much less owned one but I knew I wanted one and I'm happy to say I'm not disappointed. I love it! I love the look of it, the engineering of it, the hand made in England heritage of it, the take anywhere compactness of it but especially the riding of it! It just puts a smile on my face every time I go for a ride. I've got a Brompton at an entry level I can afford. Yes you can get a Sub £200 Halfords folder but I don't see the point. Bigger, heavier, clumsy for commuting, same for taking into a shop or cafe. Might as well get a £10 bike lock and leave it outside, no one will look twice at it. Also if you have a mind to modify it's the perfect base Brompton. I left mine stock to start with, just enjoyed riding it. Now as I'm using it I'm figuring out what I want to mod or tweak here and there. First was the extended seat post. I'm on the shorter side at 5'6" and wanted the standard one. So I got a black standard length off ebay for £15 then sold my extended seat post on ebay for£12 so my black standard seat post ended up costing me £3! Next thing I went for was a Brooks flyer saddle and matching grips. Got a deal on the saddle for £80 and grips were. £49. Then I got a black folding pedal £25 and non folding £10 from different sights ( the pedal kept bashing my leg when I was carrying it around)
Now coming into winter I've picked up black front and rear mudguards ( you can probably see I'm liking the black theme, I think it's a nice contrast with the B75 colour)
What next? I don't know, easy wheels and an extender maybe? 🤔
I've never ridden the new Brompton so I don't know what I'm missing as far as the breaking, handling and different gear set up goes and I don't really care if my Brompton ends up costing me the same or more than the equivalent 2021 model because I'll have my own unique Brompton done the way I like it and as I can afford to do it!


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## 12boy (19 Sep 2021)

I like SPDS (mine are flat on one side and SPDs on the other). A Brooks flyer looks nice but the rear elastomer does the same thing pretty much. and if you live in hilly terrain, a second chainring is nice as well.


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## GeekDadZoid (19 Sep 2021)

Tupsy said:


> I bought a B75 in March this year. I loved the idea of the Brompton and wanted one but psychologically couldn't justify the price (or more accurately couldn't justify it to my wife 🤔) then I found that my local Halfords had one tucked away in in their back room. I had the £850 and was able to swing it with my wife and one click and collect later I had my very own Brompton! I have to stress I've never even ridden a Brompton before much less owned one but I knew I wanted one and I'm happy to say I'm not disappointed. I love it! I love the look of it, the engineering of it, the hand made in England heritage of it, the take anywhere compactness of it but especially the riding of it! It just puts a smile on my face every time I go for a ride. I've got a Brompton at an entry level I can afford. Yes you can get a Sub £200 Halfords folder but I don't see the point. Bigger, heavier, clumsy for commuting, same for taking into a shop or cafe. Might as well get a £10 bike lock and leave it outside, no one will look twice at it. Also if you have a mind to modify it's the perfect base Brompton. I left mine stock to start with, just enjoyed riding it. Now as I'm using it I'm figuring out what I want to mod or tweak here and there. First was the extended seat post. I'm on the shorter side at 5'6" and wanted the standard one. So I got a black standard length off ebay for £15 then sold my extended seat post on ebay for£12 so my black standard seat post ended up costing me £3! Next thing I went for was a Brooks flyer saddle and matching grips. Got a deal on the saddle for £80 and grips were. £49. Then I got a black folding pedal £25 and non folding £10 from different sights ( the pedal kept bashing my leg when I was carrying it around)
> Now coming into winter I've picked up black front and rear mudguards ( you can probably see I'm liking the black theme, I think it's a nice contrast with the B75 colour)
> What next? I don't know, easy wheels and an extender maybe? 🤔
> I've never ridden the new Brompton so I don't know what I'm missing as far as the breaking, handling and different gear set up goes and I don't really care if my Brompton ends up costing me the same or more than the equivalent 2021 model because I'll have my own unique Brompton done the way I like it and as I can afford to do it!



That sounds like you have / getting towards your perfect bike. To be honest I was very tempted by the B75 and if stock had been in my favour I would possibly have gotten one. I ended up ordering with a M6L which with the cycle to work scheme seemed reasonable.

But even with that I have bought the standard seat post, a Spa Nidd saddle and some new grips, I went for the Ergon Biocork GP1.

Have you got any pics of yours.


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## Tupsy (20 Sep 2021)

GeekDadZoid said:


> That sounds like you have / getting towards your perfect bike. To be honest I was very tempted by the B75 and if stock had been in my favour I would possibly have gotten one. I ended up ordering with a M6L which with the cycle to work scheme seemed reasonable.
> 
> But even with that I have bought the standard seat post, a Spa Nidd saddle and some new grips, I went for the Ergon Biocork GP1.
> 
> Have you got any pics of yours.


Yes and I'm really enjoying the process but to be honest I initially wanted a 6 speed and there was a M6L in black available at the time for I think £1275 but I'd never have been able to swing it with the Mrs. I'm happy it worked out this way, I like my little B75.
Yes I'll have to post some pics but at the moment it's in bits as I've purchased black handle bars and am just getting around to putting on the mudguards 😊


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## yoho oy (27 Sep 2021)

Went for a 6L brompton. It is not delivered yet. Will see if I made a good decision when I will have a first ride. The reason why I chose 6 speed vs 3 speed or b75 were availability. Purchasing procedure took a long time- first brompton website was not working on firefox, brave or opera browsers. It was not letting me check out for whatever reason. Then, after I figured out that windows browser will let me check out, bromptons were out of stock... They were out of stock everywhere- halfords, etc. Since I wanted to get 0% APR financing, I decided to wait till bikes become available on brompton website. Brompton with lighs and Cambium saddle were probably better deal bying from Brompton rather than buying from halfords and upgrading them later. Well, bromptons came back on brompton website, but unfortunately the price became higher... There was no B75 available. At this point I decided to go with 6 speed rather than 3 speed. The availability of colors were better for 6 speed model too. Some time before purchasing I went to Decathlon store and checked out their foldable bikes. I was impressed. I think the prices that they are asking for these bikes are really a bargain. Unfortunatelly bikes had one drawback- they were heavy as hell. I could barely lift them from a ground. Some models were made from steel, others were made from aluminium. I think they could offer better ride than brompton simply because of larger wheel size, but when folded they are neither portable nor light...


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## yoho oy (1 Oct 2021)

Anyone thinking to buy Brompton from Brompton website be prepared for a looooong wait. It seems they will take maximum 7 business days to ship it and might be another week to get it delivered to the store. It is already a week, and I see no progress. Weather lately was not for biking, so I thought people would order less bikes? Might be I will have to cancel the order if things will go such way?


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## Tenkaykev (1 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Anyone thinking to buy Brompton from Brompton website be prepared for a looooong wait. It seems they will take maximum 7 business days to ship it and might be another week to get it delivered to the store. It is already a week, and I see no progress. Weather lately was not for biking, so I thought people would order less bikes? Might be I will have to cancel the order if things will go such way?


That's not a particularly long wait, especially with current supply constraints. My Brommie ( CHPT3 ) took about four to six weeks to arrive at the shop, this was pre Covid.


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## yoho oy (1 Oct 2021)

That is not really an excuse. I went for standard model, zero customization, plus it was "in stock" on website. What are they selling- projected manufacturing plans of the future?  Anyway given the weather don't see it riding it full time atm.


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## mitchibob (1 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> That is not really an excuse. I went for standard model, zero customization, plus it was "in stock" on website. What are they selling- projected manufacturing plans of the future?  Anyway given the weather don't see it riding it full time atm.



No such thing as bad weather... just inappropriate clothing! ;-)


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## Kell (6 Oct 2021)

Pretty sure mine was quoted as eight weeks when I bought back in 2015. Came in about six.


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## cougie uk (6 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Anyone thinking to buy Brompton from Brompton website be prepared for a looooong wait. It seems they will take maximum 7 business days to ship it and might be another week to get it delivered to the store. It is already a week, and I see no progress. Weather lately was not for biking, so I thought people would order less bikes? Might be I will have to cancel the order if things will go such way?


Why would you cancel the order over something so trivial ? I've waited months for custom frames. 

Back in the day anything mail order would be 'allow 28 days for delivery'. 

It's a good bike. Well worth waiting a couple of weeks.


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## Pale Rider (7 Oct 2021)

Instant gratification - are you a millennial?


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## rogerzilla (7 Oct 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Why would you cancel the order over something so trivial ? I've waited months for custom frames.
> 
> Back in the day anything mail order would be 'allow 28 days for delivery'.
> 
> It's a good bike. Well worth waiting a couple of weeks.


Take a frame to Argos for respray...you might be able to pick it up in spring 2022 

Worth waiting for, but not for the TikTok generation!


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## u_i (8 Oct 2021)

My wife was not much into cycling so the maneuver was to buy her a Brompton as a birthday gift . She was just melting by it. Then a year or so later the moment came when she critically looked at what I was riding and pronounced the words 'You should get a Brompton too!' I waited no time to oblige.


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## Tenkaykev (8 Oct 2021)

u_i said:


> My wife was not much into cycling so the maneuver was to buy her a Brompton as a birthday gift . She was just melting by it. Then a year or so later the moment came when she critically looked at what I was riding and pronounced the words 'You should get a Brompton too!' I waited no time to oblige.


Then you see a “ Flame Lacquer “ or similar gorgeous looking colour combination and think “ that would do for Sunday best “ 🤔😎😉


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## yoho oy (8 Oct 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Instant gratification - are you a millennial?


 Almost three weeks of waiting for "IN STOCK" bike is hardly an instant gratification. BTW, perhaps I should say the same to you when you will wait for hours to get petrol for your car or see empty shelves in a supermarket. Or even better - wait in a queue for a GP. The doctor will see you in 5 years time .

Reality is that it seems Brompton is overselling bikes that they cannot make on time. This is after they increased the prices a few times already. This is very bad news for everyone. It means that spare parts are luxury too and most of them will be not available.


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## berlinonaut (9 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Reality is that it seems Brompton is overselling bikes that they cannot make on time.


Yup. The incredibly lazy people at Brompton just refuse to make enough bikes. In 2019 they made about 55.000 Bromptons, in 2020 just 80.000 and in summer 2021 the passed the mark of 100.000 bikes made in 12 months. They are indeed lazy suckers and could have stocked gazillion of parts in advance to covid - would have been easy. How stupid are they that they have not? 



yoho oy said:


> This is after they increased the prices a few times already.



Yeah, this is disgusting. In 1987 a 3L costed just GBP 209.88 and today it costs GBP 1145 whereas everything else ist cheaper than in 1987. How dare they?



yoho oy said:


> This is very bad news for everyone.


Possibly not. Most people don't care.



yoho oy said:


> It means that spare parts are luxury too and most of them will be not available.


"Most of them"? Is this the case? I cannot see that. While some parts are actually hard to get hold of due to the increase in demand in combination with Brexit issues and the covid-related problems with supply chains and a homemade problem with Brompton having switched to a new ERP internally (which did not work flawlessly as it seems) most parts seem to be available. So where did you get your information from? And how often do you need spare parts for your brand new bike that has not even been delivered? Which parts are you missing?

Possibly it may be better for your blood pressure to step back from your order - you are already constantly moaning and complaining and do not even own the product yet. How will that develop once you finally have the bike?


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## Tenkaykev (9 Oct 2021)

They do have stock, it’s just that other people have ordered before you, you just have to wait your turn. If you’re not happy with the situation then cancel your order.


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## berlinonaut (9 Oct 2021)

Tenkaykev said:


> They do have stock, it’s just that other people have ordered before you, you just have to wait your turn.


Not to forget that the lack of lorry drivers for delivery of petrol to the stations, food to the supermarkets and goods from the harbours are probably not all employed by Brompton to deliver Bromptons - the will suffer from the same effect as everybody else.


Tenkaykev said:


> If you’re not happy with the situation then cancel your order.


Could be a business model: The OP seems to be exactly the kind of "customer" that nobody wants. Maybe a lot of brands would pay him for *not* becoming a customer. Basically a new variant of making a living as an "influencer".


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## yoho oy (15 Oct 2021)

Ha ha...  I see a lot of Brompton shills here, just like on forum board of electronics company with fruit logo, where when you ask about the problem and they say " our fruit products never EVER break. You are delusional". Next thing you know the fruit logo company is hit by class action suit and they are forced to make repairs for free or give compensation because they made a product with a massive design flaw. I do understand that things are not perfect in life, but one thing is to charge the price that covers the making of a product, distribution, etc plus slim profit margin, and another is to charge as much as they can and have most of the price AS A PROFIT and still NOT DELIVER.

Brompton or any mechanical device will break. Nothing last forever. What I got from reading a manual and watching some owners on youtube is that clamps, chain, cogs and some other things wear out quite soon. These are still available as parts, but a lot of other bits are out of stock.

Brexit, lorry drivers have nothing to do with Brompton delivery. If it does, they should adjust the wording on their website- for example assembling the bike will take 3 months, shipping another 2 months and hopefully delivery will take less than a year.  Then it is all clear for everyone. Instead they say that shipping to the store is "4-7 days" and "inspecting in the store is 3-5 days". 

Bike finally shipped to the store, but only after I contacted the brompton about my order. So that was more than 3 weeks. Now the bike is in store waiting to be assembled (?) and that will take another 2 weeks. Does anyone know how bromptons ship to the store? Do you need to put anything more like pedal and seat post as with home delivery or it literally comes in parts?


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## Kell (15 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Instead they say that shipping to the store is "4-7 days" and "inspecting in the store is 3-5 days".
> 
> Bike finally shipped to the store, but only after I contacted the brompton about my order. So that was more than 3 weeks. Now the bike is in store waiting to be assembled (?) and that will take another 2 weeks. Does anyone know how bromptons ship to the store? Do you need to put anything more like pedal and seat post as with home delivery or it literally comes in parts?



In fairness, if they quote those times to you then you should have received it. Like I say, I didn't think much of a 3-week timeframe as mine was quoted as 8 weeks, and delivered in 6. I think it's always better to quote longer times and try and beat them than to be unrealistic upfront and disappoint people.

But in the current climate, it's possible that wherever you got that information from is now outdated and you're likely to get a more up-to-date estimate by calling. But that's just a guess.

Having said that, people are always excited by the minimum times quoted: in the instance above, many people (not saying you) would look at that and think they'll get their bike in a week.

But no doubt they are working days - and I always err of the negative - so I would have expected it to take *at least* 12 working days. Depending on when you placed your order, that could include three weekends so 16-18 days at best. But you should be able to pick it up after that. Not just have it delivered to the store.

I 'think' that the bikes come folded in a carboard box - some people ask to keep these. And I'm pretty sure it's just a PDI rather than any real assembly. So two weeks seems ridiculous.


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## Tenkaykev (15 Oct 2021)

yoho oy said:


> Ha ha...  I see a lot of Brompton shills here, just like on forum board of electronics company with fruit logo, where when you ask about the problem and they say " our fruit products never EVER break. You are delusional". Next thing you know the fruit logo company is hit by class action suit and they are forced to make repairs for free or give compensation because they made a product with a massive design flaw. I do understand that things are not perfect in life, but one thing is to charge the price that covers the making of a product, distribution, etc plus slim profit margin, and another is to charge as much as they can and have most of the price AS A PROFIT and still NOT DELIVER.
> 
> Brompton or any mechanical device will break. Nothing last forever. What I got from reading a manual and watching some owners on youtube is that clamps, chain, cogs and some other things wear out quite soon. These are still available as parts, but a lot of other bits are out of stock.
> 
> ...


Where are you based? An official Brompton dealer quoting two weeks doesn’t sound right. When I ordered mine it was delivered to store and available the same day. Since the Covid situation Brompton have been delivering to customers home addresses.


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## yoho oy (15 Oct 2021)

Tenkaykev said:


> Where are you based? An official Brompton dealer quoting two weeks doesn’t sound right. When I ordered mine it was delivered to store and available the same day. Since the Covid situation Brompton have been delivering to customers home addresses.



I am based in London and ordered bike on September 23'd. I chosen delivery to the store since I was not sure when exactly they will deliver the bike. The store that it is delivered to do sell Brompton bikes and accessories.


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## yoho oy (8 Nov 2021)

Finally got my Brommie!!! It seems that I had some very unusual experience with my order. First of all they lost my order somewhere in the factory, but after contacting the Brompton they sent it right away. Unfortunately the bike arrived to a bike chain store that was very understaffed (basically a sales person and a mechanic), so it took forever to put the bike. Also there was might be some mix up with an order, since after registering my bike on Brompton website it shows up as different color and R version bike? So perhaps the staff in the store accidentally sold my bike to someone else (also the staff told me that they cannot give me a box that it came in, but it was not because it was damaged or anything, I saw it myself- it looked fine)? In any case, I decided that a month for assembly was way enough time and after visit to the store they told me that bike is there, and they are willing to assemble it in 40 minutes. After 40 minutes of waiting I left with a bike!

I have to say after riding it for the first time I have to say that bike is 10 out of 10. It is built very well, much faster than I anticipated for a folding bike and rides very smoothly. As far as steering goes, it is a bit twitchy, but it could be that I haven't been riding a bike for a decade or so.


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## GeekDadZoid (8 Nov 2021)

Sounds like quite a quick turnaround in current times.

You will get used to any perceived twitchiness and yes I agree it is surprisingly fast for a little bike, I often get surprised looks from other riders as I saunter past.

Enjoy the brommie


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## rogerzilla (9 Nov 2021)

I would have insisted on the box. They are valuable as a Brompton doesn't fit in a normal bike box (unless fully unfolded and the bars turned, which is a faff for any potential buyer to reposition). The shop may be flogging it on eBay for £50.


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## Schwinnsta (9 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I would have insisted on the box. They are valuable as a Brompton doesn't fit in a normal bike box (unless fully unfolded and the bars turned, which is a faff for any potential buyer to reposition). The shop may be flogging it on eBay for £50.



The Brompton bars are the simplist to align. You just tighten the stem with the stem folded and in its catch.


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## 12boy (9 Nov 2021)

Read a book l found fascinating...Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressman about the Spartans and the battle of Thermopylae. Has a lot of info about their culture and one tidbit was their their word for f**ing being derived from their word for grinding, as with millstones.
My rototiller failed but for $150 l bought a motor at Harbor Freight which actually bolts right in. It has everything but fuel, oil and the 4 bolts which attach it to the rototiller chassis. Also needs a couple of bolts to attach a guard for the pulley mechanism. If this works correctly it will be a lot cheaper than $600 for an equivalent new one. I will try to get this done over the next few days although most of today will be at the oncology clinic for a chat with the Doc and chemo #2 in this series.
Be well and safe....


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## rogerzilla (9 Nov 2021)

Schwinnsta said:


> The Brompton bars are the simplist to align. You just tighten the stem with the stem folded and in its catch.


I know that and you know that, but would you trust J. Random Ebayer to do it without leaving feedback on how you sold him a lethal bike?


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## rogerzilla (9 Nov 2021)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

I wonder what's special about a CHPT3 box? Extralight cardboard? Personally sellotaped by David Millar? Printed with ink made from the tears of unicorns?


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## Schwinnsta (9 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I know that and you know that, but would you trust J. Random Ebayer to do it without leaving feedback on how you sold him a lethal bike?



Point taken. I would probably buy a box before using a bike box to ship a B. It would save on shipping.


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## CEBEP (10 Nov 2021)

I don't know about you all being in UK, but here in Turkey situation with supply chain is awful. Dealers say they no longer can order bikes to their requirements but just receive whatever Brompton sends their way and most of what they need is not sent at all.

Same goes for spare parts, at leat some of them. I asked for H stem quotation, it wasn't available anywhere in Turkey and two dealers in Istanbul were not able to quote me any timing on ordering new or even final price. One of them told me that I'll need to pay whatever it will cost upon arrival, agree? Nope, thanks.

I was thinking, if there is a Brompton in Turkey with broken H stem which requires replacement, what owner is supposed to do? Handlebar stems are not sold on the internet at all. I suppose there is a reason for all this and I would expect it from no name Chinese brand with majority of aftermarket parts on the bike, not from Brompton with majority custom made parts, specifically considering Brompton is famous for supporting all of it's models and constant availability of all spare parts. At least that's the impression I had from Brompton reviews which influenced me partly into decision to buy one.


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## rogerzilla (10 Nov 2021)

Brilliant Bikes list one and unhelpfully say it's not available (as with much of their Brompton stock!). They also say they are only available for crash replacement purposes. It's not a very customer-friendly approach.


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## berlinonaut (10 Nov 2021)

CEBEP said:


> I don't know about you all being in UK, but here in Turkey situation with supply chain is awful. Dealers say they no longer can order bikes to their requirements but just receive whatever Brompton sends their way and most of what they need is not sent at all.
> 
> Same goes for spare parts, at leat some of them.(....) Brompton is famous for supporting all of it's models and constant availability of all spare parts. At least that's the impression I had from Brompton reviews which influenced me partly into decision to buy one.


There's a lot of aspects coming together at the moment. 
1. Since a couple of years Brompton transforms to a more modern company. They announced a massive growth plan back in about 2016 when moving to the new factory and even a couple of years before they started to change their image bit by bit to more of an emotional fashion item and less of the rational engineer's product that they used to be. Necessary for the planned growth to reach a broader audience but with consequences for the attitude and the priorities of the company.
2. During this process they also focussed more on efficiency and profits. One visible consequence is the delisting of spare parts specific for older bikes like the 15t sprocket for the Sachs/SRAM hubs. A shame, if you ask me - it renders a perfectly working bike (or at least it's rear wheel) useless only a bit more than 10 years after production because a 3€ part is no longer available. There are way more examples of specific pars no longer avail, however, due to the backwards compatibility you can typically upgrade an older bike with newer components though this is often more expensive than necessary. The other visible bit of that strategy is the elimination of variability: Just one rear damper for all instead of a hard and a soft one. Identical brakes front and rear instead of different ones. Again, there are more examples. This limit the necessary inventory, rises efficiency and profits but has in itself typically no negative impact on the users.
3. Already a couple of years ago Brompton stopped the free sale of frame parts in the UK - they were only available to be fitted at a dealer's workshop, not for fitting yourself. This seems still to be limited mainly to the UK but with Brompton taking over the distribution from local distributers in the various countries and regions more and more it is possible that it will become the standard.
4. Brexit brought challenges in terms of getting sufficient amounts of parts from the suppliers all over the world. To cover this foreseable risk Brompton built up extra stock as a Buffer.
5. Covid brought a massive rise in demand, so Brompton used this extra stock to serve the additional demand in the first hand instead of keeping it as a buffer. Consequence: Brexit and Covid based issues in the supply chain aggregated and Brompton is low on parts stock. This is i.e. probably the reason why the bikes in their online shop are fitted with Brooks C17 saddles instead of the usual Brompton saddles.
6. To make things worse, Brompton implemented a new ERP-system, a project running already for a while. Foreseeable (and no surprise for anyone that has ever been affected by such a project) this led to a lot of hickups including a lot of dealers not being able to order bikes or parts due to not being experienced with the new system plus the system not working properly anyway. A bit of a chaotic situation.
7. In several parts of the world Brompton took over distribution themselves from the local importers, i.e. in the DACH region in December 2020 from the importer for 30 years. As a consequence they needed to build up new trust to the dealers, new processes and new structures from stratch. Which probably will have fired back to the factory partly as well.
8. Due to the masssive rise in demand plus the Covid caused chaotic lockdowns all over the world Brompton needed to reinvent distribution and sales: There was way more demand than they could cover and at the same time shops were forced to close more or less randomly. So they fast forwarded their online sales and things like pick and collect. Again, this will have had effects in the factory. Also they would have to make tough decisions which demand to fulfill and which to deny in terms of dealers or countries.
9. The massive short-term scale-up in production to more than 100.000 bikes a year needed more people, more materials and gave load on all processes. Probably did not run totally smoothly and produced quality issues, unrealiability and unhappyness.

This all aggregated is a bit of a mess. Partly home-grown, partly externally caused, partly bad luck. All put together a tough job to fix and clearly not a stituation where customers can be happy with ease. We'll have to see what the situation looks like in a year or two.


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## rogerzilla (10 Nov 2021)

Berlinonaut, I have it on good authority that any 3-lug sprocket will work on the Sachs 6-speed. The cutaway teeth aren't vital and only serve to speed up shifting slightly. Or you could modify a sprocket with a grinder or file, if you want to. It's not Hyperglide-level tooth shaping.


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## CEBEP (10 Nov 2021)

All valid points @berlinonaut

I hope they can put things back in order soon. Even though I admire and recognize the engineering they put into their products it's by no means a high tech one. Which means can be easily reproduced with equal or close to equal quality by Chinese manufacturers. And based on what we've seen in smartphone market, they can take over the market pretty quick as they know what they are doing. I have nothing against Chinese products but would also want to see old brands like Brompton to compete as well.

While all what you mentioned is understandable, though unfortunate, Brompton isn't Rolex after all.
I don't think people will put up with long delays and lack of parts for very long. Again, I hope they will recover soon as I love mine and hope they will keep supporting their products for decades to come.


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## berlinonaut (10 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Berlinonaut, I have it on good authority that any 3-lug sprocket will work on the Sachs 6-speed. The cutaway teeth aren't vital and only serve to speed up shifting slightly. Or you could modify a sprocket with a grinder or file, if you want to. It's not Hyperglide-level tooth shaping.


Yup, that's my personal opinion as well. Still many Brompton dealers and workshops do either not know that or ignore that. As a consequence a not technically interested or competent Brompton rider get's told by the Brompton dealer: "Part no longer avail." I personally know strories of people that for that reason have upgraded to a new rear wheel (BWR or BSR). I find it understandable that not all dealers are willing to experiment or take the risk but rely on factory supply.


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## berlinonaut (10 Nov 2021)

CEBEP said:


> Which means can be easily reproduced with equal or close to equal quality by Chinese manufacturers. And based on what we've seen in smartphone market, they can take over the market pretty quick as they know what they are doing.


While there is some truth to that it is by far not that simple. This topic has been excessively discussed in other threads on that forum, so no sense for me to replicate this discussion. In the end, with all constraints, it is capitalism: If Brompton f*** it up they f*** it up. They have to play their cards and while not everything lies in their own hands there is a lot what they can do right or wrong.


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## rogerzilla (10 Nov 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> Yup, that's my personal opinion as well. Still many Brompton dealers and workshops do either not know that or ignore that. As a consequence a not technically interested or competent Brompton rider get's told by the Brompton dealer: "Part no longer avail." I personally know strories of people that for that reason have upgraded to a new rear wheel (BWR or BSR). I find it understandable that not all dealers are willing to experiment or take the risk but rely on factory supply.


To be fair, no spares are made for the T3 hub either, so it's a bit of a dead end. I managed to get a NOS spare axle key and the large bearing cages from Das Zweirad via someone in the Netherlands (they won't ship to the UK because of Brexshit), at vast expense, so mine will run for a good many years yet.


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## yoho oy (13 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I would have insisted on the box. They are valuable as a Brompton doesn't fit in a normal bike box (unless fully unfolded and the bars turned, which is a faff for any potential buyer to reposition). The shop may be flogging it on eBay for £50.


Gee, it is just a cardboard box!!! Well it is too late now. I think the reason was that perhaps it was not my order number on a box which would mean that the store was cheeky and sold my bike to someone else (it was standard bike in common color) and later got another one that I got. I really doubt their story that bike needs to be somehow specially assembled compared with home delivery in a box.


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## yoho oy (13 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I know that and you know that, but would you trust J. Random Ebayer to do it without leaving feedback on how you sold him a lethal bike?


I will try to keep my brommie as long as I can rather than to sell it after using it for a few months. This was the reason I went with brommie and foldable rather than some other and perhaps cheaper bike.


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## yoho oy (13 Nov 2021)

Brooks C17 saddle is a nightmare. Very stiff and actually probably a tad too narrow for my body type and taste. It is also somehow relatively slippery and I find myself slipping out of it. Now I have sore bum every time I take my bike for a bit longer ride. I don't understand who could pay full retail price in case the bike did not came with one. On a good note - as per product it seems it is made to last and could serve a lifetime on a bike. I guess everyone has a bit different body type and comfort requirements... 

After having a bike for a longer time I came with a few shortcomings of it. Nothing major, just some nags. The first is Brooks saddle. Second - steering is sensitive and twitchy, bike feels way underweighted on front. Probably putting bag with some weight on front block would solve this issue. Also riding the bike for a while and more often would make me adjust to it. In general bike just rolls on its own on most terrain and most of the time I have to apply brakes rather than pedal it. Before I bought the bike I had an impression that due to smaller wheel size people have to pedal more on Brompton compared with normal size bike. It is not the case. It seems that bike is surprisingly quite fast and actually on some downhills I felt that it is way too fast for such small bike and my riding skill level. Another good thing is that going uphill is not that challenging compared with what I had in mind before I bought a bike and rode it for the first time. I haven't tried some extreme mountain hills, but relatively steep hills can be done without ever lifting a bum from a saddle. I have to stress that I am neither very fit nor spandex wearing bike enthusiast. In fact it was a while ago I rode a bike on regular basis. The model that I have is 6 speed, so might be it helps somehow...

But back to shortcomings... I think the bell is really rubbish. In fact a few times I was saved by relatively loud gear hub noise rather than a bell. I definitely will be adding a second after market bell. Also 100 psi are quite difficult to achieve with most pumps. I don't think I will be ever able to do it with included one, also the floor foot pump that I have is having a hard time too.


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## CEBEP (13 Nov 2021)

yoho oy said:


> The model that I have is 6 speed, so might be it helps somehow...
> 
> But back to shortcomings... I think the bell is really rubbish. In fact a few times I was saved by relatively loud gear hub noise rather than a bell. I definitely will be adding a second after market bell. Also 100 psi are quite difficult to achieve with most pumps. I don't think I will be ever able to do it with included one, also the floor foot pump that I have is having a hard time too.



6 speeds does help, also 44T crank (smallest of 3 Brompton cranks) will help if you don't have it already. Awsome setup for Istanbul where no road is really flat.

Agree about bell and this is something I decided to invest in considering what I paid for this bike. Have just installed SpurCycle black bell. Sounds much louder than new one and looks awesome to my taste. Original can be removed if you wish. Here are few snaps with new one installed and original one removed.


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## berlinonaut (13 Nov 2021)

yoho oy said:


> On a good note - as per product it seems it is made to last and could serve a lifetime on a bike. I guess everyone has a bit different body type and comfort requirements...


Saddles are a lot to individual taste. A lot of people like it. For my taste the C17 is ok but it is not my first choice. It seems btw. not to last as long as traditional Brooks leather saddles (let alone a lifetime) - at least with early models of the C17 endurance was not it's strong side and some people who ride a massive lot managed to wear it unexpectedly quick.



yoho oy said:


> Before I bought the bike I had an impression that due to smaller wheel size people have to pedal more on Brompton compared with normal size bike.


 That's not an impression - it is a prejudice, caused by a misunderstanding of physics. Interestingly pretty common - but still wrong. 


yoho oy said:


> But back to shortcomings...(....) Also 100 psi are quite difficult to achieve with most pumps. I don't think I will be ever able to do it with included one, also the floor foot pump that I have is having a hard time too.


I do own four pumps. None of them has issues going way beyond 100 PSI with ease. So the issue is not with "most pumps" - not at all. 100 PSI is not a high pressure when you look i.e. at traditional racing bikes. In opposite: It is more than common and rather on the low side. The included one is a pump for keeping mobile on the road, not a proper pump for every day. So your complaint is a bit as if you complained that your new ferrari prefers premium petrol but you only have a two stroke mix in a canister, intended for your lawn mower. Barely the fault of Ferrari or a fault at all. Same with Brompton's 100 PSI tyres. Buy a proper pump and you are set. The yellow Joe Blow Sport is a good but still very economic choice.


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## rogerzilla (14 Nov 2021)

The new bell is hopeless. The old 6-speed had a fairly good bell. Agree with berlinonaut's pump recommendation. I've had a Joe Blow Sport for years, and recently overhauled it (parts are available). I had an SKS Renkompressor too, but the heads were useless and the gauge fell apart.


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## berlinonaut (14 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I had an SKS Renkompressor too, but the heads were useless and the gauge fell apart.


I have one, too. I like the Rennkompressor for it's style and heritage but cannot ignore to recognize that for one, when the Rennkompressor was invented, people were shorter than today (it is just a couple of cms too small for me to be comfy and requests a position which for me is perfect to hurt my back) and second, while it is more or less undistructable some things are more comfy on more modern pumps (though possibly not as long lasting): The Rennkompressor tends to fall over, the gauge is a bit small to read for the elderly cyclist, the wooden grip comes loose more or less regularly - tiny things like that. It is a bit the Land Rover of pumps.  Regarding the heads: SKS offers three different ones to choose from and the most classic one seems to be the one that barely fails while the newer variants are not as robust. In principle one can add a third party head as well. If you are super-snobbish you import this one from Japan: https://www.tracksupermarket.com/st...d-presta-adapter-replacement-seal-3-pack.html (I've until now successfully avoided to do so but am still tempted... ).


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## 12boy (14 Nov 2021)

Going back to the box issue. I bought my Brompton from a store in Denver, about 300 miles from home and didn't think to get a box. Years passed and the shop went away, but I needed a rebuild on the rear hinge and a new seatpost liner. The best place to have this done was about 1200 miles away and I needed to ship it there to I built a box from a fullsized box the LBS ( who don't work on Bromptons) gave me and FedExed the bike for repairs. When they returned it it was in a proper Brompton box which I am keeping for when mailing becomes needed again.


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## Kell (14 Nov 2021)

It is amazing that the shops don’t allow you to have these boxes any more. But everything seems to be monetised these days. 

I sold an old MTB a while back and bought a box from what turned out to be a retailer on eBay. 

It used to be case that they would just give you the boxes.


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