# Is there a sat Nav for bikes?



## Cat (16 Mar 2008)

Maybe i stupid question i don’t know....

But is there a Sat Nav available for bikes? That is small and compact and works like a normal sat nav...

If so does any one recommend one? 

Cheers x


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## roadiewill (16 Mar 2008)

You can can things like that, not sure whether they are navigation or more of a digital map.


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## Bollo (16 Mar 2008)

The Garmin Edge series are bike-specific. The 205/305 are more training orientated and will plot courses but do not display maps (I think?). The new 605/705 have full map displays (once you cough up for usable mapping ) but the release date keeps slipping, although I believe a few people in the US have got them now.

The alternative is Satmap, which doesn't have the HR and Cadence functions but is out now, does use full raster OS maps (like the garmin, these are extra on the base unit price), and has a large screen.

Google either and you'll find a shed load of info.


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## Cat (16 Mar 2008)

"The Edge 705 with Heart Rate Monitor and Speed/Cadence Sensor is expected to be available in December 2007 and have an estimated retail price of £359.99 / €549.99. This device includes an ANT+Sport heart rate monitor, speed/cadence sensor, AC charger, USB PC interface cable, bike mounts, owner’s manual on disk and quick-reference guide. Strangely enough Amazon is already taking orders for the Edge 705.

The Edge 605 has an estimated retail price of £269.99 / €399.99. It includes bike mounts, USB PC interface cable, AC charger, owner’s manual on disk and quick-reference guide. Though like the 705, it looks like you can buy the Edge 605 on Amazon as well. "

Is it worth it at that cost, lol.... does any one have one as yet or looking at getting one?

So do u have to subscribe yearly to it, i wonder........


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2008)

I have a Garmin eTrex Vista, it's just about perfect for my use on the bike.


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## Cat (16 Mar 2008)

Does it work just like a car sat nav tho?....., programme in where you want to go to and it will plan the route and away you go.....


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## roadiewill (16 Mar 2008)

whats wrong with a bit of adventure?


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## fossyant (16 Mar 2008)

I don't see the need for sat nav on the bike...come on - a map and some pre planning.... It's not as though you need to be at a meeting at x time at x place in a town centre....... I have sat nav built in on the car, but wouldn't use a system on the bike.....


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## Cat (16 Mar 2008)

I don’t mind the adventure, but when it comes to a 75 mile cycle event that im taking part in and not all of its manned, i get a bit scared of getting lost and being stuck out in the country side with it getting dark, lol

Maybe it’s just a girl thing, lol


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## BentMikey (16 Mar 2008)

Cat said:


> Does it work just like a car sat nav tho?....., programme in where you want to go to and it will plan the route and away you go.....



It does if you install a routable map, but that costs extra. Same for the 705 I believe.

Fossyant, it's definitely more useful than a map when you repeatedly have to go to unknown places. I don't know London that well, and it's much easier being able to glance down at the Garmin every few minutes than having to pull over and get clever with an A-Z.

Best bit for me is that I can just ride and not care at all where I am, and know that the GPS is constantly recalculating the best route home when I decide to stop cruising and head on back.

You don't lose out on a sense of adventure either, given the routings the GPS comes up with. Often surprising and interesting, hardly ever disadvantageous.


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## mjpg (16 Mar 2008)

The Garmin eTrex works well, but just has route finding, not mapping - you can find it for just over £60.
You can get a Garmin bike bracket for about £13 (Maplin).
A nice site for converting Google map routes to download to the eTrex is Marengo GPS Route Planner.
Finally, get a cable to attach to the PC - GPSBitz are cheapest and best (about £8). You can then download your route to the computer and overlay on a map, see the profile, check speeds etc. I use GPS Trackmaker - freeware.
If you've got more cash, you can get more of the above in a package - possibly easier to use - but the above works.


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## fossyant (16 Mar 2008)

OK another gadget for the bike....... TBH most of my rides are where I live and I know where I need to go..but I don't do big city navigating...no need - I commute, then go on a ride that's a loop... all well within where I know really quite a wide area.

I see the benefits for off road though.... and 'out of area'....


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## Bollo (16 Mar 2008)

Soz, didn't make it clear in my earlier post. The Garmin 605/705 use vector maps that can be used for route calcs in much the same way as a car sat nav. The only thing missing is the voice (and the screen is a bit too small). The Gramin Topo maps (at great additional cost) contain ground features and coutours but are not as pretty or as 'rich' as the OS maps on which they're based.

Satmap uses raster 'pictures' for maps, so you get OS in all its glory. The downside is that these can't be interpreted by the device to plan routes. They're just georeferenced overlays. This isn't a big limitation if you plan routes on Tracklogs or Memory map, because you'll be able to overlay your intended route over the OS map.

I've got a 705 on order because I'm planning a few lone adventures into Sussex this summer, and I don't fancy accidently finding myself on the tarmaced ribbons of death that seem to comprise most of Sussex's A-roads.

I would always carry a paper map as backup. But like BentMikey said, I don't want to be stopping every other mile to check a map if I'm not on home soil.

And I sweat like an angry publican, turning unwrapped maps into paper mache in a thrice.

And I like gadgets


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## davidwalton (16 Mar 2008)

BentMikey said:


> It does if you install a routable map, but that costs extra. Same for the 705 I believe.
> 
> Fossyant, it's definitely more useful than a map when you repeatedly have to go to unknown places. I don't know London that well, and it's much easier being able to glance down at the Garmin every few minutes than having to pull over and get clever with an A-Z.
> 
> ...



I agree. Given that until a month ago I had not traveled on hardly any of the roads around here, I have to rely on something that ....

a) Guides me back home when completely lost
 Allows me to plan routes around the raceways there are here, ie. A127, A129, A13, A130, etc. Could only do that either by stopping all the time to read a map, or by following the GPS set to avoid such roads.

Garmin units are not cheap, and to use it as a car SatNav is more expensive than that for a car generally. However, the Garmin are designed to be used outside in all weather, and those that run on standard batteries last a decent amount of time (Vista with AA 2900MAh batteries last over 24 hours use). 

Yes, you do need to buy both the unit and the mapping software to have turn by turn navigation by road.

See https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145 for the units that support mapping, plus from https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160 the 605 and 705 models that are cycle fitness based.


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## wafflycat (17 Mar 2008)

There's also Memory Map/Road Angel Adventurer7000NP, which can be used in-car, hand-held or with bike-mount. See here


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## Cat (17 Mar 2008)

They all seem so expensive....


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## PaulSB (17 Mar 2008)

I can't remember the details but I'm sure Aldi have offered sat nav with a bike mount on at least two occassions. It's made by Medion as is much of their IT stuff. I'm not very clued up on the quality of these products but have friends who work in IT who tell me it's very good value and have purchased Aldi hardware for themselves.

Have you considered Tom Tom or an handheld PC? I'm sure with a bit of ingenuity one could rig up a bike mount or for a handheld PC you can probably buy one? My Tom Tom does walking and cycling routes though I've never used it for cycling.


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## mcr (17 Mar 2008)

Does anyone have experience of using the Mio P360 on a bike? It's on special offer with Anquet full-UK mapping at the moment http://shop.anquet.com/acatalog/Pocket_Anquet.html#a10101, making it cheaper than SatMap if you include the mapping - and you also get the functionality of a pda. I can't see anywhere if it claims to be weatherproof, though (as SatMap does).


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## Bollo (17 Mar 2008)

!Bottoms! As I feared, just got an email from dabs pushing the delivery date for the Garmin 705 back to 14th April. I'll be injured by then!!


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## PatrickPending (17 Mar 2008)

BentMikey said:


> I have a Garmin eTrex Vista, it's just about perfect for my use on the bike.



me too, you can get a handlebar mount for the garmin handhelds, I loaded mine with metroguide europe and I now never get lost. The topographical maps give you altitude info too mind you it can fill you with dread knowing a 20% hill is coming up so I save that for the garmin 60csx which I use when roaming the hills.

They don't tsalk to you by the way and it is fairly expensive


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## Bigtallfatbloke (17 Mar 2008)

Cat hi...it makes purrfect sense to get a cycle sat nav. I would like to get one asap funds permitting.

Take a look at a converstaion we had recently about this:
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8795


Getting lost on a bike is no fun, especially in bad weather.

Anothe roption might be a Nokia Navigator mobile phone?


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## davidwalton (17 Mar 2008)

PatrickPending said:


> me too, you can get a handlebar mount for the garmin handhelds, I loaded mine with metroguide europe and I now never get lost. The topographical maps give you altitude info too mind you it can fill you with dread knowing a 20% hill is coming up so I save that for the garmin 60csx which I use when roaming the hills.
> 
> They don't tsalk to you by the way and it is fairly expensive



Mine beeps at me about 0.5 miles to turn, and again with a few hundred feet to turn. Yes, I have a Vista as well

I got the Europe NT maps, so once I get fit enough to go on European hols, then I can still use it there.


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## RedBike (17 Mar 2008)

I just use tomtom on my phone. 

It works (no surprise) just like the one in the car. The only problem is the directions can be a little hard to hear when you're going quickly due to wind noise.


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## RedBike (17 Mar 2008)

Nothing stopping you from using something like this or even this and mounting it in a waterproof case.

Battery life might be an issue; but i'm sure 4 hours would be more than enough to put you back on track after that wrong turn.


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## davidwalton (17 Mar 2008)

RedBike said:


> Nothing stopping you from using something like this or even this and mounting it in a waterproof case.
> 
> Battery life might be an issue; but i'm sure 4 hours would be more than enough to put you back on track after that wrong turn.



Well, my theory was that I would rather buy something that is designed to function outside in the weather, and for much longer than a few hours.

Yes, it costs, but at the end of the day I believe that the Garmin unit with maps will be more reliable, work longer, and in the end be more cost effective than buying something really cheap which I would need to work outside of it's intended use.


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## buggi (17 Mar 2008)

RedBike said:


> I just use tomtom on my phone.
> 
> It works (no surprise) just like the one in the car. The only problem is the directions can be a little hard to hear when you're going quickly due to wind noise.



why don't you get a bluetooth thingy for your ear?

how do you get tomtom on your phone anyway?


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## Dave5N (18 Mar 2008)

Ugh! I like being on a bike for the sense of freedom. Having some gadget telling me where I am would destroy the magic.


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## BentMikey (18 Mar 2008)

davidwalton said:


> I got the Europe NT maps



Me too! That has saved me a lot of trouble on several European trips, mostly on foot. Looking for hotels, cash machines, etc., you just use the points of interest database and get the closest one, the hotels usually have a telephone number so it's really easy to find a room.


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## BentMikey (18 Mar 2008)

Dave5N said:


> Ugh! I like being on a bike for the sense of freedom. Having some gadget telling me where I am would destroy the magic.



No, see my previous post. It *adds* to the magic, because you feel free to explore all sorts of roads you might not otherwise whilst not worrying where you are.  You get more time to look around and enjoy the scenery too.


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## RedBike (18 Mar 2008)

> why don't you get a bluetooth thingy for your ear?
> 
> how do you get tomtom on your phone anyway?



There's no real need for the bluetooth ear piece. I have my phone mounted in a carrier on the bars. I can still see the "bread crumb trail" on the map even if I can't clearly hear the directions when travelling at speed. 

You can buy tomtom (and many other gps applications) for Nokia smart phones. My phone has a built in gps reciever but even if your phone hasn't you can buy a reciever that will connect to most phones via bluetooth for about £20/£30.


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## Crackle (18 Mar 2008)

Dave5N said:


> Ugh! I like being on a bike for the sense of freedom. Having some gadget telling me where I am would destroy the magic.



I'm with Dave here. I can see the benefit of them off-road, amongst forestry in particular, especially Satmap but on-road I'm still old fashioned. I put my handlebar bag on and stick a map in the folder. I far prefer maps, you see the whole picture, it's far easier to plan a route and you know it'll be right. Experience of satnav in cars tells me they're good for cities but hateful everywhere else.



BentMikey said:


> No, see my previous post. It *adds* to the magic, because you feel free to explore all sorts of roads you might not otherwise whilst not worrying where you are. You get more time to look around and enjoy the scenery too.



I can partially see that but then the best 'exploring' I've done is just to ride a road and see where it leads me. Only when I get home do I look on the map to see where I've been.

The trouble with all these gadgets is they remove your natural instinct to read the road and the scenery, you become slaves to the machine. S'not what cycling is about for me, particulalry touring.

Bonj'll be along in a minute to mention reading moss on trees and aligning your watch with the sun


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## davidwalton (18 Mar 2008)

Crackle said:


> I'm with Dave here. I can see the benefit of them off-road, amongst forestry in particular, especially Satmap but on-road I'm still old fashioned. I put my handlebar bag on and stick a map in the folder. I far prefer maps, you see the whole picture, it's far easier to plan a route and you know it'll be right. Experience of satnav in cars tells me they're good for cities but hateful everywhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have to disagree. I didn't spend over £300 on my unit and maps just as a toy. It has a real function, that of getting me about on roads I do not know, as well as getting me back when lost. As BM has also pointed out, it is also very useful for finding and directing you to things you need, like Cash Machines, Super Markets, etc.

As for having a map strapped to the handlebars in a bag, I can't. It would be on my chest, given that is where my handlebars are. However, even with a standard bike, to use a map you must stop every time. Doesn't that make you a slave to the map

Around where I am in Essex, the directions given by the unit have not been wrong in the time I have used it and I don't live in a Town, let alone a City.

You still have to read the road, and your eyes are not glued to the unit any more than another using a paper map. However, I don't have to stop to get directions. I don't have to stop to find my way anywhere. If you like getting lost and struggling to find your way, then do not buy one of these units. To me, that is no fun, and has nothing to do with cycling.

You can go off down any and all roads to see where it goes without looking at the unit if you want.

I see these units as advanced digital maps. They are there as a tool, nothing more, just like a paper map, but last longer, has far more features, and covers much wider area in far more detail.


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## Crackle (18 Mar 2008)

OK David, I'd forgotten you rode a bent, so yes, no room for handlebar bags.

I still don't understand why you need it for rides in the area you live though. My technique is simply to look at a map pick out a rough route, combine that with my knowledge of the roads I do know and then go out and ride it. I may not know every turn, sometimes I may have to pause and read the road signs, sometimes I have to go back on myself but then after a few times you know the route and the roads. It's all part of the process.

Now say longer day rides, I might carry a map for, I get it a bit more for that but then I tend to choose them in the country, not that many ways to go and if I have to stop to look at the map then it's part of the ride.

Touring, I don't think it matters at all. It's a different pace, chuck all gadgets for that and anyway it's one more thing to have to charge up.

I'm not unconvinced, just not convinced enough to spend £300 on one yet. I also maintain that using units like that, removes you slightly from real world observation. You get lazy and don't pay attention to where you are. It's the same with computers to an extent. I quite often don't turn my computer on and leave my HRM at home. It frees me from looking at the damn thing and chasing my own shadow.


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## davidwalton (18 Mar 2008)

Crackle said:


> OK David, I'd forgotten you rode a bent, so yes, no room for handlebar bags.
> 
> I still don't understand why you need it for rides in the area you live though. My technique is simply to look at a map pick out a rough route, combine that with my knowledge of the roads I do know and then go out and ride it. I may not know every turn, sometimes I may have to pause and read the road signs, sometimes I have to go back on myself but then after a few times you know the route and the roads. It's all part of the process.
> 
> ...



The only local roads I knew before I started riding were the ones I don't want to be on as a cyclists, ie. the big dual carriageways.

Instead of learning a route by map and hoping I get it right, I plan routes in to my unit and when I need to turn it beeps at me. The rest of the time, it has no significance to how I cycle.

There are a lot of minor country lanes around here. Some go somewhere, while others just stop.

I will never agree that getting lost is part of any process other than the desire to get lost.

On Sunday, I will be going out for the first time on a CTC group ride. Where that ends, I then need to get back home from, and I have no idea where the run ends. You would take a map, I'll take my GPS. I see no difference other than what I use is better.

Surely when touring, there is still the requirement to get to the next camp site, hotel, or place to eat, loo, etc. With a continuous life of over 24 hours on my unit with 2 AA batteries, 2 batteries should last at least 3 days, being on 8 hours a day. So for a week, I would need to have 4 AA batteries, and for 2 weeks 8. Takes up so much room, so can understand you not wanting to carry them. Instead, carry lots of different maps to cover the areas you are traveling in.

I have yet to see that I am GETTING lazy, especially as I have just started to cycle. If I were at my old place, I would not have purchased a GPS, as I knew that area very well. Here in Essex though, I don't, and I would rather be concentrating on my cycling instead of whether I may be getting lost if I don't remember to turn somewhere.


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## Crackle (18 Mar 2008)

davidwalton said:


> The only local roads I knew before I started riding were the ones I don't want to be on as a cyclists, ie. the big dual carriageways.
> 
> Instead of learning a route by map and hoping I get it right, I plan routes in to my unit and when I need to turn it beeps at me. The rest of the time, it has no significance to how I cycle.



Got to admit I don't get that. How can you tell from a map how a lane looks. My favourite established longer rides where all picked by just exploring, remembering a lane I liked and designing my route to take it in. So you go past a lane that looks nice and you take it, see where it goes as opposed to slavishly following your satnav.



davidwalton said:


> There are a lot of minor country lanes around here. Some go somewhere, while others just stop.
> 
> I will never agree that getting lost is part of any process other than the desire to get lost.



This is true of areas you completely don't know and aren't likely to get to know i.e. off somewhere for a day ride but even if you're vaguely familiar with an area, you know a road is going in the right direction by landmarks etc... It goes the wrong way and you take the next turn left or right which goes back in the direction you want. It doesn't take long to find your way around.



davidwalton said:


> On Sunday, I will be going out for the first time on a CTC group ride. Where that ends, I then need to get back home from, and I have no idea where the run ends. You would take a map, I'll take my GPS. I see no difference other than what I use is better.



Ask someone? Local knowledge is better than a GPS anyday in my view.



davidwalton said:


> Surely when touring, there is still the requirement to get to the next camp site, hotel, or place to eat, loo, etc. With a continuous life of over 24 hours on my unit with 2 AA batteries, 2 batteries should last at least 3 days, being on 8 hours a day. So for a week, I would need to have 4 AA batteries, and for 2 weeks 8. Takes up so much room, so can understand you not wanting to carry them. Instead, carry lots of different maps to cover the areas you are traveling in.



Oh good it takes batteries. So many have chargers. One for your camera, one for your mobile, one for your MP3 etc... And I use 1:250,000 OS maps in Britain for roads, easily good enough, 2 or 3 is the most you'd need. France I might carry more.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of them but everytime I try to justify the thought of one to myself I keep thinking it's not worth the cost. 

Now I do know someone with the spatial awareness of a dead bat who'd probably benefit from one but she must not be named


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## BentMikey (18 Mar 2008)

Who said anything about slavishly following a GPS? That bit is no different to a map, because you could just as slavishly follow your pre-plotted route on the map.

The beauty of GPS is that you don't need to pre-plot anything, the GPS will route and re-route for you on the fly. This frees you up to take any road you like and enjoy your ride. That's still possible with a map, but there's a whole lot more figuring out required.

I don't understand the anti-GPS sentiment here. It's just a map after all, but a clever one that gives you far more information than a map ever can, takes some of the unnecessary load off you, and leaves you more free to ride and enjoy.


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## Crackle (18 Mar 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Who said anything about slavishly following a GPS? That bit is no different to a map, because you could just as slavishly follow your pre-plotted route on the map.
> 
> The beauty of GPS is that you don't need to pre-plot anything, the GPS will route and re-route for you on the fly. This frees you up to take any road you like and enjoy your ride. That's still possible with a map, but there's a whole lot more figuring out required.



No, that's a good point but you still just can't take any road you like, you have some wits about you to know which direction it's going in but I take your point. 

You still need a map though, whether it's on a computer or paper doesn't matter. Trying to plot a route on those little screens, seeing contours and village detail is nigh on impossible on a little screen.



BentMikey said:


> I don't understand the anti-GPS sentiment here. It's just a map after all, but a clever one that gives you far more information than a map ever can, takes some of the unnecessary load off you, and leaves you more free to ride and enjoy.



I'm not anti-GPS, I just don't entirely agree with your reasons for having one and I disagree about it freeing you up. It's just something else that needs your attention, when I'd rather be looking up and around and enjoying my ride. In a similiar way, I don't always carry a mobile phone, don't stick music in my ears when I'm out and sometimes don't bother with a cycle computer.

It's the same as hillwalking in Britain. I've walked in some horrendous conditions and never got lost with only the aid of a map, a compass and occasional use of pace counting and yet I've come across many either with no map or consulting a guide book to see which way it says. Now I might well take a GPS on the frozen arctic tundra but I can't really justify one here.

I like the idea of them but I just can't justify one to myself, I accept that you can but just wanted to test my reasoning against yours, that's all.


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## BentMikey (18 Mar 2008)

Yes, I'm not getting your logic at all, so I'm not sure how your reasoning is testing out!


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## RedBike (18 Mar 2008)

I find mine invaulable for sportive / audax rides. 

On sportives I blindly follow the signs / route directions with little to no idea of where i'm actually going or where I am. Then I miss a turn, or start to panic thinking i've missed a turn. 

At this moment I switch the satnav on and tell it to take me to the next food stop / major point on the route (which i've pre-programmed in). 

As soon as I see the direction signs / find myself in the notes I turn it back off.


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## davidwalton (18 Mar 2008)

BTW- I put together cycle routes on the PC using the MapSource software that comes with the unit, not on the unit. I then transfer that route via USB to the unit so I can then use it. My PC monitor is 20" which is just about big enough to see

Now, if I choose to go off route while on a ride, the unit will recalculate to the next waypoint I set to go via automatically, or if there is no way through then advise me to do a U Turn.

The unit it's self is not that much bigger than a large mobile phone, just thicker. It weighs next to nothing compared to everything else, and it is always there as and when I need it.

Sorry, but I am very glad I bought this unit. It has meant I have been able to FULLY explore many of the country lanes that I would have just past if I had to keep on checking a map......and when I need to stop for a break, I can ask it to direct me to the nearest eating place. Don't need local knowledge, or to bother anyone to find my way.

The cycle shop I intend to go to at beginning of next month, when I have some money, for a first service is approx 8.5 miles away, somewhere south of the A13 in some small road in Leigh-On-Sea. I would never of found it without an aid, and doing that by paper map would require many stops. With the GPS, no problem at all.

Apart from cost, I can not see the downside of a GPS that works fully as a road navigator, especially one where it is designed to work in the weather and will run on standard AA batteries that last a good 24 hours.

All depends on what your priorities are and how you make your justification on such expenses.


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## Joe24 (18 Mar 2008)

Maps and GPS are just girlie. Do what i do and just go out and guess.
So far i havent taken a map out with me, but i dont really have anywhere to put one. But i have got alot of knowledge of the some of the main roads around here so i try and work out different ways.
I am thinking of getting a GPS, but not sure which one to get.
One thing i did look at was motorcycle ones. But i dont think the batteries last long on them. Good thing is they have street maps on them. 
The reason i would like a GPS is so i could record the route of some of the club rides so i could do them again on my own and not have to worry too much about getting completely lost. Dont mind getting lost, but competely lost is no good.


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## davidwalton (18 Mar 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Maps and GPS are just girlie. Do what i do and just go out and guess.
> So far i havent taken a map out with me, but i dont really have anywhere to put one. But i have got alot of knowledge of the some of the main roads around here so i try and work out different ways.
> I am thinking of getting a GPS, but not sure which one to get.
> One thing i did look at was motorcycle ones. But i dont think the batteries last long on them. Good thing is they have street maps on them.
> The reason i would like a GPS is so i could record the route of some of the club rides so i could do them again on my own and not have to worry too much about getting completely lost. Dont mind getting lost, but competely lost is no good.



So you are a girlie too

With many of the Garmin units, you can record your travels as tracks. Mine also gives me trip distance, avg speed, max speed, etc.

I did look at some designed for Motor Bike, but they are really designed to run from the bike battery rather than a couple of AA's.


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## simoncc (19 Mar 2008)

The best Sat Nav for bikes is to stop and ask someone the way. Low tech, green, always successful, sociable and very cheap.


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## davidwalton (19 Mar 2008)

simoncc said:


> The best Sat Nav for bikes is to stop and ask someone the way. Low tech, green, always successful, sociable and very cheap.



As long as you stop a local. Stop me, and I won't have a clue without my GPS.


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## wafflycat (19 Mar 2008)

And, as long as you happen to be in an area where there's plenty of folk about. Cycle in many rural parts and you can be cycling for ages without seeing anyone!


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## Crackle (19 Mar 2008)

Got to admit, you've semi-convinced me David. Having stuck up my arguments you've knocked 'em down one by one.

Trouble is, there isn't a one device fits all though is there. You'd have different requirements for off-roading to city riding or if you wanted one to do that plus cadence etc... Still for off-roading, if you took the dreaded map and the GPS gave you co-ordinates...hmmm


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## davidwalton (19 Mar 2008)

Crackle said:


> Got to admit, you've semi-convinced me David. Having stuck up my arguments you've knocked 'em down one by one.
> 
> Trouble is, there isn't a one device fits all though is there. You'd have different requirements for off-roading to city riding or if you wanted one to do that plus cadence etc... Still for off-roading, if you took the dreaded map and the GPS gave you co-ordinates...hmmm



If you want everything, including fitness stuff, road SatNav, Off Road, then look at the Garmin 705 with Topo GB maps.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=10885

TOPO Great Britain contains topographic maps with detailed coverage of England, Scotland and Wales — perfect for your next recreational outing. With topographical data provided by Ordnance Survey® of Great Britain and road maps provided by NAVTEQ™.

This setup isn't going to be cheap though, and the fitness units don't use AA batteries so you do need to recharge the internal one after 15 hours.

Personally, I would buy something like the eTrex Vista® HCx (Unit I use), see https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=8703&locale=en_GB
with Topo maps, and then have a separate computer for any fitness stuff you require.


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## BentMikey (19 Mar 2008)

I like to have a separate cycle computer, HRM, and GPS. The idea of integrated is nice, but it's more flexible to have separate of each.


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## Bollo (19 Mar 2008)

davidwalton said:


> If you want everything, including fitness stuff, road SatNav, Off Road, then look at the Garmin 705 with Topo GB maps.
> 
> https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=10885



Look at it, but try buying the bu33er! Looks like the release date has slipped to the end of April.


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## davidwalton (19 Mar 2008)

Bollo said:


> Look at it, but try buying the bu33er! Looks like the release date has slipped to the end of April.



Hehehe. I wouldn't want to buy it, hence i got the Vista unit.

One thing about Garmin I have found is that they are very slow when it comes to getting products out. Support is great, and you get to speak to a real person fairly quickly. They just have not sorted out how to get what they make on to the streets quickly.


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## Joe24 (19 Mar 2008)

wafflycat said:


> And, as long as you happen to be in an area where there's plenty of folk about. Cycle in many rural parts and you can be cycling for ages without seeing anyone!



Thats a good point. In one place i went through it was very strange, there was no-one about at all. However there was a pub, not that there appeared to be anyone in there. 
Maps are no good because i have to get a thick one to be able to have it on the areas. But GPS puts me off because i could do with street maps really.
If i got a GPS could i up load some maps from the Garmin Satnav we got? That would be handy. But i doubt it could be done.


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## Bollo (19 Mar 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Maps are no good because i have to get a thick one to be able to have it on the areas. But GPS puts me off because i could do with street maps really.
> If i got a GPS could i up load some maps from the Garmin Satnav we got? That would be handy. But i doubt it could be done.



Technically it _could _be possible, but Garmin tie down their maps to a specific machine for licencing reasons. If you want a feel of the delight this causes users, google on "Unlocking Garmin Maps" or similar.


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## davidwalton (19 Mar 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Thats a good point. In one place i went through it was very strange, there was no-one about at all. However there was a pub, not that there appeared to be anyone in there.
> Maps are no good because i have to get a thick one to be able to have it on the areas. But GPS puts me off because i could do with street maps really.
> If i got a GPS could i up load some maps from the Garmin Satnav we got? That would be handy. But i doubt it could be done.



Not sure, but I think with Garmin maps, you have the choice of either buying DVD version which then ties you to a specific Garmin unit, but can load the maps on any PC, or you buy the MicroSD version which I presume can then be used within any unit, but tied to just one PC.

You would need to check, and Garmin support is the best place for that. Call them on.......... FreePhone *0808 238 0000*, and go through to the HandHeld support option, option 2, last time I phoned them.


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## Joe24 (19 Mar 2008)

Would TomTom maps work on a Garmin GPS do you reckon.
Another option could be a palm pilot thing with GPS, and then get the TomTom maps from ebay(an uncle has them and has done this) and then uploading them onto the palm pilot thing, putting it into a water proof case and using that. Mounting would be the problem though.
I think there is an SD card somewhere in the house with just British Garmin maps on from the Satnav we got. So that could be be unlocked and could work then, in a GPS or palm pilot thingy? There was a CD with all the maps on that came with it (Europe) that we just put onto another SD card and put in the Satnav.


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## davidwalton (19 Mar 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Would TomTom maps work on a Garmin GPS do you reckon.
> Another option could be a palm pilot thing with GPS, and then get the TomTom maps from ebay(an uncle has them and has done this) and then uploading them onto the palm pilot thing, putting it into a water proof case and using that. Mounting would be the problem though.
> I think there is an SD card somewhere in the house with just British Garmin maps on from the Satnav we got. So that could be be unlocked and could work then, in a GPS or palm pilot thingy? There was a CD with all the maps on that came with it (Europe) that we just put onto another SD card and put in the Satnav.



Best to phone Garmin and check with them as to what can be done.


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## wafflycat (19 Mar 2008)

As already pointed out, there's the MemoryMap Road Angel 7000 adventurer. Can be used in-car, on-bike, hand-held. 

_"Much more than a GPS, the ROAD ANGEL Adventurer 7000 is the first waterproof and rugged PND (Portable Navigation Device) to provide turn-by-turn voice directions and safety camera alerts for use in car and full colour digital Ordnance Survey® maps for the outdoors. Pre-loaded with UK wide street level mapping, just enter your destination by address or full postcode and Adventurer 7000 will guide you using voice directions, turn-by-turn junction graphics and 3D overview map display. To help you drive safely, visual and audible alerts warn of upcoming safety cameras and accident black spots."_

See http://www.memory-map.co.uk/road_angel_adventurer_satnav.htm


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## rich p (19 Mar 2008)

Does the metroguide give all the tiny little roads abroad? I use some pretty obscure roads in France sometimes!


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## BentMikey (19 Mar 2008)

As far as I know you can install the Garmin maps to two different GPS, but that's the limit.


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## Cat (19 Mar 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> Cat hi...it makes purrfect sense to get a cycle sat nav. I would like to get one asap funds permitting.
> 
> Take a look at a converstaion we had recently about this:
> http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8795
> ...




So many people are saying to many GPS systems im getting confused, lol....

I just want one thats cheap and will show me where im going and gt me back home again 





RedBike said:


> I find mine invaulable for sportive / audax rides.
> 
> On sportives I blindly follow the signs / route directions with little to no idea of where i'm actually going or where I am. Then I miss a turn, or start to panic thinking i've missed a turn.
> 
> ...



I've got an audax ride coming up on the 8th June (the orchid one) anyone else doing it? 75 miles.... 

That's one reason y i want the Sat Nav, in fear of getting lost...

I didnt know my post would set of world war 3 between the use of paper maps & electronic GPS systems...

I would more than happy read a map, but if im in the country side and dont know what the road is called (as being essex, not very well signposted) i could cycle around for hours till i come accross a sign or a person (then when u ask that person, they have no idea what road they are on also) as where u have a gps system it picks up where u r and off u go.....not only is the gps quick at planning your route, it doesnt watse time looking through a map when u could be riding.

I was looking at the Garmin 705 but as it aint out yet in the UK there isnt any reviews on it and its very expensive.

I have a car sat nav that plans cycle routes, but its too big to attach to my bike.

Plus im new to cycling, well this type of cycling, i used to ride a bike when i was younger (age 15 or so) doing 24 miles of countryside with the parents but lost touch many years back so getting back out there on a "road bike" is new (in some ways)


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## RedBike (20 Mar 2008)

As posted before. Loads of car sat nav system are now small enough to be easily carried in your pocket, mounted in a case/bag on the bars. Battery life varies but you can normally get about 3 hours from them. Not enough to navigate the whole ride with one but more than adequate to get you back on route. Likewise loads of mobile phones now come with satnav built in. 

The big disadvantage of both systems is they're not water-proof and mounting them on the bars can be arkward. Which is why systems like the Garmin will always be better (but also more expensive).


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## BentMikey (20 Mar 2008)

The good thing with the Garmin Vista is that it has incredibly long battery life and takes AA batteries, plus you can take it off the bike and use it walking or in the car. It's also somewhat shock and water proof.


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## peterdowning (23 Mar 2008)

wafflycat said:


> .... Cycle in many rural parts and you can be cycling for ages without seeing anyone!



Very true. Today I turned a corner in rural South Leicestershire to be confronted with a totalled Mini upside down in a ditch and a very distressed and obviously shocked young woman crouching by the side of of the road phoning for help. Don't know how the poor thing got out of the car alive (she only had minor cuts and bruises) as the steering wheel was against the roof. She'd had to wriggle out through the rear window.

Anyway, my point is that we waited for over half an hour before her friend was able to get to her - no one else passed us in that time, so you can be very lonely out there. I didn't want to leave her to get help as she seemed OK but shocked. 

During this time I phoned the police to report it but they basically told me to f* off as there was no one in need of hospital treatment and get a recovery truck to pull the car out! 

I had been able to give a precise location to them though as I had my Garmin Edge 305 with me, so maybe had circumstances been different it would have paid for itself in getting help directly to the scene. Not really my main reason for buying it though!

Spoiled my first ride on my new bike, but I was glad she was OK.


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## martinofyre (30 Mar 2008)

Interesting thread and similar to some others I have followed. I have a similar requirement for Sat Nav on a cycle. I reckon for simple road riding all you need is a unit which gives you audible turn by turn instructions, replaceable batteries and gets a good signal without being mounted on your bars, ie in a backpack. I have navman pin 570 which is ok for the car but is useless at picking up a signal. I have borrowed a tom tom one which I swear would pick upa signal in a bomb shelter. So I am looking for a car oriented unit (for cheapness) which runs off aa batteries and gives turn by turn instructions and has a headphone socket and can pick up a signal as good as a tom tom.
Unit goes in backpack/bumbag, in a ziploc if rain is expected, earpiece in, off you go. Replaceable batteries mean you have no need to worry about batteries running out. Waypoints would be a useful feature but not a necessity.
I have spent some time trawling the interweb in search of such a unit but havent yet found one at a reasonable price ie. less than £100
Anybody help?


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## RedBike (30 Mar 2008)

I just leave my gps receiver (for a mobile phone) in my camalbak. It's never failed to pick up a signal even in dense woodland. I tend to mount the phone in a waterproof case on the bars though so I can see the map. I suppose I could just use the phone with headphones (using tomtom) and leave it in a bag.

Waypoints seem to work in a different way to road navigation. You get an arrow pointing in the direction on the next way point (and depending on the device some map features) but as far as I know there isn't a device out there that provided audible directions. 

I use viewranger and tomtom version 5 (quite an old one) on a Nokia phone with a  bluetooth gps receiver


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## HJ (30 Mar 2008)

Humm, time to get a new phone my thinks...


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## GruB (30 Mar 2008)

Like Mikey I have a Garmin Etrex Vista Cx. It is ace. I also have Tracklogs. Aside from tracking where I have been and looking at route profiles etc, I use it to plan any audax ride I do. I hate, absolutely detest not knowing where I am. I am also quite rubbish at reading a map. At least with the GPS it shows me nearby places etc and major roads.
If I am going on a 'fun' ride I will plan a route via the OS map and then follow it. This will generally be down a lot of roads that I have not travelled before. It is great fun.


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## CopperBrompton (30 Mar 2008)

Another vote here for the eTrex Vista HCx that many in the thread have recommended:







Details here of why I chose it:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/benlovejoy/wheels/cycle/kit/gps/

Ben


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## Cat (31 Mar 2008)

The Garmin Etrex Vista Cx seems pretty good, would people think thats the best one avilable?

On it can you pre plan routes, drive in your car and then it saves it and you can ride it on your bike?

Can you tap in where you want to go and it plans the route for you, like a normaly GPS

and last question, the unit dimensions: 4.2"Wx 2.2"H x 1.2" D, is it too big or heavy for the bike? and how would you mount it?


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## CopperBrompton (31 Mar 2008)

It's the best one if you want standard stats (everage speed, etc) and navigation rather than fitness stuff (cadence, power, etc).

You can pre-plan routes with Mapsource, which is really quick and easy. You can also drive a route in your car, save the tracklogs and then repeat that route on your bike. And yes, you can ask it to plot routes on the fly.

It's pretty small and light. You'd normally mount it on your handlebars (there's a handlebar mount available for about £13). As I have a trike, I have it mounted on a Space Bar attached to one of the handlebars.


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## Cat (31 Mar 2008)

Brilliant, they sell one in costco over in america (dont know if they do it over in england i will have a look tomorrow) but its the 

Garmin eTrex Legend® Cx Waterproof Handheld GPS $149.99 at the moment, i dont know if that is the same or not, or does the same stuff?

and whats the difference between the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx GPS (£229.99) & the garmin eTrex Vista (£138.95) as there is a big price difference between the both?

Thanks


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## BentMikey (31 Mar 2008)

There are different models of eTrex, and some models don't have much functionality compared with the top of the range, so be careful.


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## Bollo (31 Mar 2008)

Just had a look at my Garmin Edge 705 order status on dabs and its shown as packed and ready to go!

The predicted in-stock date has been drifting for about three months, so I'm suprised that this has arrived now. Dabs were predicting 10/04/08, with other suppliers talking about the end of April.

Come to Bollo, lovely toy.


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## CopperBrompton (31 Mar 2008)

Look on the Garmin site for model comparisons. HCx means it has the high-sensitivity antenna, which makes a *huge* difference to how quickly it locks on and how well it holds a signal in difficult places (tree canopies, skyscrapers, etc).

The HCx gets a full lock inside my living-room!


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## Tynan (31 Mar 2008)

refuse to use dabs, their website hung once and I ended up ordering two of the same thing, I knew what had happened within a minute because their email confirmation of order worked just fine, almost impossible to speak to anyone or get an email response that was sensible and they refused to deal with the problem and refused to deal with my complaint

I ended up keeping two of the thing I wanted and have never used them since, it simply wasn't good enough at all


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## Bollo (1 Apr 2008)

Edge 705 in my greasy mitts!

Just had the usually mappy unlocking issues which a phone call down the road to Garmin in Southampton fixed. I'm off to the garage to fit the bits to the bike. I'll try out a short review here unless someone beats me to it.

Dabs 1-0 Tynan


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## Cat (1 Apr 2008)

Whats the GARMIN Edge 205 like? and the difference between the 705..... ??


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## Bollo (3 Apr 2008)

Just posted initial impression of 705 here


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## Kestevan (6 Oct 2010)

Just got a new HTC desire mobile phone.
It has built in google maps, complete with sat-nav routing.

It was free on £20.00 month contract. 
Possibly not ideal for bar mounting etc, but if it's just needed as a "Help I'm lost" feature then ideal.


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## ian turner (7 Oct 2010)

Hmm April 2008.
Everyone on this thread probably has one by now (me included as of last week)  
Mind you old threads resurrected years later are often down to passing google searchers.


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## TheBoyBilly (7 Oct 2010)

So, Ian, what SatNav did you buy?  

Bill


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## ian turner (7 Oct 2010)

Just a gps. Edge 500 bundle from amazon. Nothing like buying something for £186 only to see them price track down to £180 knowing that had you waited it would have gone up to £190 instead  
I needed it coz I is a performance cyclist not because it was shiny. Okay a low performance cyclist with a shiny gps system. Mamils have to evolve or die


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## Cheule (7 Oct 2010)

Another Rich P? Surely there's not enough room on the forums for two


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## jimboalee (7 Oct 2010)

You can use a Tom Tom. They have about a five hour battery life.

When it has calculated the route, pop it in a plastic bag and tape it to the side of your helmet. Then just follow the spoken instructions. 

Remember to disable Motorways.


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## Aperitif (7 Oct 2010)

jimboalee said:


> You can use a Tom Tom. They have about a five hour battery life.
> 
> When it has calculated the route, pop it in a plastic bag and tape it to the side of your helmet. Then just follow the spoken instructions.
> 
> Remember to disable Motorways.



Now now, Jimbo...


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## jimboalee (7 Oct 2010)

Aperitif said:


> Now now, Jimbo...



OK. If you would prefer not to wear a helmet, tuck it inside your jersey on a Lanyard.


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## ian turner (7 Oct 2010)

Cheule said:


> Another Rich P? Surely there's not enough room on the forums for two


I'm guessing he has a pre order on the Edge 800 and didn't spend 6 months thinking about it first.


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## subaqua (6 Dec 2010)

I use my HTC HD2 with copilot ( came bundled with) I stick it in a outside pocket and can hear the directions. i could use the headphones but SWMBO would kill me. i have toyed with the idea of cable tying the car mount to the bars but its a tad too expensive to risk a fly off


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## Paul.G. (7 Dec 2010)

Just a thought but have a look at this

Bryton Rider 50 - supplier is Selwyn Sport - sorry not very good at adding links so suggest do a search via Google

Seriously thinking of ordering one myself and not yet found a bad review

Paul.G.

• 2.2" Color Transreflective TFT Panel
• High Sensitivity GPS Chipset
• Support 17 Languages
• Preloaded Maps and POIs
• IPX7 Waterproof Design
• Knock Knock TM Wireless Data Sharing
• Cycling Meter/Navigation/Step Counter and more
• Route planning, training statistics and more....


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## ColinJ (7 Dec 2010)

RichP said:


> Oops just relaised I'd posted that before sorry!!
> 
> Also sorry for any confusion to the other RichP ;-)


It is confusing so it might be a good idea to PM _admin _and ask him to change your forum name before you make any more posts! 

(Welcome to CC, by the way.)


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## pshore (7 Dec 2010)

Wow, I just skim read 7 pages and nobody has mentioned any OpenStreetMap based maps !

If you've got a Garmin device you can most likely put one of the OpenStreetMap based maps on it for free. There are a number of different style maps depending on your focus. Road (car), road bike/touring bike, MTB/walking

Being the wikipedia of maps it is not complete everywhere but you can add routes yourself. If it is on here it is already mapped:
http://www.openstreetmap.org

I have a Garmin Dakota 20. Typically, I will plan a route online with something like bikeroutetoaster and upload to the GPS then follow. If you need to deviate from that, the routing intelligence of the map becomes important so you don't end up on the nearest motorway.

I've used the OpenCycleMap version to cycle tour with the national cycle network highlighted like a motorway. OpenMtbMap for offroading then found the nearest fish and chip shop by browsing through the food menus on the Garmin. Velomap is done by the same chap as OpenMtbMap but has better routing for road and touring bikes. 

It's not all perfect as its based on reverse engineering data and postcodes are copyright so they are not in OSM.


For more info:
http://wiki.openstre...Garmin/Download

They work on car based Garmins like the Nuvi if you want to try it the maps out.

Phil.


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## Ticktockmy (7 Dec 2010)

I use the Satmap GPS, really tough bit of kit, but has its faults, I found that in strong sunlight the screen become hard to read, sometime it takes a long time to acquire the satellites, but once locked on it is very accurate and reads well under trees and is accurate to about 3 mtr most of the time. 

Currently comes packaged with the full OS landranger 1:50000 of mainland Britain and fully supported with 1:25000 maps. And they do a bike package as well. 

http://www.satmap.co.uk


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