# Carrera TDF Limited Edition 2013 (I think!) - The Wrong Gear?



## Mongoose (15 Sep 2014)

I feel I should share my experience of 'upgrading' to a road bike. Towards the end of April 2014 I walked into Halfords to buy a tool set for a car and walked out with a Carrera TDF Limited Edition (or Non-Limited Edition as it turned out). I had been knocking about mainly on roads on my faithful 24 speed Trek 7200 FX hybrid for the previous 9 years and notched up a very respectable mileage. Friends and family had hinted to me that I should be considering a road bike not least because my Trek was looking both tired and dated. In love with my Trek and with no intention of upgrading I was somehow sucked into a Halfords bank holiday special deal and squeezed a boxed Carrera TDF onto the back seat of the car. Bearing in mind that I had walked into buy a car tool set I'm not sure what my thinking was but afterwards I persuaded myself that if things didn't work out, for £300, if nothing else, I would be able to move the bike on or sell on some decent quality bits for a modest return. The bike came with Shimano twin paddle shifters, Shimano derailleurs, a 12/26 rear cassette and a front chainset I wish I'd paid a bit more attention to!

I assembled the bike myself without any difficulty and went out on a quick 20 mile spin before heading off to Africa on a three week business trip. On reflection I was generally happy with the bike although I did find it a bit of a struggle to get up the hills. I should point out that I fall into the 'heavier' category of cyclist although I cover an average of 150 miles a week and never really struggled with hills on the Trek. I did a further 1500 miles on the TDF when I got back from Africa but, alas, the hills were not getting any easier. At this point, I decided to take a closer look at the gearing. I thought I had been sold a Carrera TDF with a 50/34 compact chainset but on closer examination found I had a 52/42 double chainset. This went a long way to explaining why the hills were not getting any easier.

I spent some time looking at the best options for changing the setup of the bike. From what I read many people suggested cutting your losses and putting money towards another bike but, I don't know why, I'm very attached to the Carrera TDF as, dare I say it, I feel I got a lot of bike for the money.

Determined not to be defeated, I changed the standard spec TDF 52/42 chainset (maker unknown) that came with the bike for a 50/34 Shimano FC A070 Square Taper 7/8 Speed Chainset at a cost of £35. This 'upgrade' required nothing more than a crank removal tool, taking a couple of links out of the chain and a minor height adjustment to the front derailleur. I now have a completely different bike which comfortably carries me up hills with a 20% advantage over the original spec I bought it with. The bike has now completed over 2000 miles since May with my being away for at least one month.

On my Carrera TDF the original 42T inner chain drive was attached to the 52T outer chain drive with hex nuts and bolts. I couldn't find a 34T inner chain drive on its own that would fit but I did find a 38T inner drive available from Ribble for £10. This means that with a hex key, a crank removal tool and a £10 38T inner chain drive it is possible to get a 10% advantage on the inclines compared with the standard spec 42T inner ring. I am keeping the rebuilt 52/38T chainset in reserve for when I have finished enjoying going up hills with my new 34T 'granny' cog!

The other change I considered was replacing the rear cassette but from what I read this sounded more complicated, may have required a new rear derailleur and would have still left me battling with inclines with a 42T inner ring.

The other changes I've made to my Carrera TDF include SPD pedals and, having had 5 punctures in two weeks on the standard spec Kendas, 2 x Continental Gatorskins @ £21 each. Touch wood, I've not had a puncture since. 

I'm now delighted with my Carrera TDF Limited Edition and hope this may help any other long suffering Carrera TDF owners who are struggling with the inclines.


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## Joshua Plumtree (15 Sep 2014)

I have the same bike. 

Not sure why it comes with a 52/42, as you say, would be a much better bike with a 50/34. I'll replace the original when it's seen better days.

It's the only bike I sometimes wish I had a lower gear to call on. And I live in Norfolk! Can't imagine trying to use it in the Peak District!


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## Ian H (15 Sep 2014)

For replacement chainrings in a wide range of tooth sizes and spider sizes/types, try Spa Cycles. Google them.


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## Roadrider48 (15 Sep 2014)

I have had a TDF since May '13'.
It was my first road bike, like you. Never had a problem with it. Although I did change the tyres straight away.


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## Mongoose (15 Sep 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> I have had a TDF since May '13'.
> It was my first road bike, like you. Never had a problem with it. Although I did change the tyres straight away.



Did your TDF come with the 52/42T chainset? From what I have read the TDFs have also been supplied with a 52/38T chainset.

Although I live on Anglesey which is generally fairly flat you can pick your ride to include some good climbs. I like to head off into Snowdonia as well, more so now that I have a decent low range of gears.


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## Big_Dave (15 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> Did your TDF come with the 52/42T chainset? From what I have read the TDFs have also been supplied with a 52/38T chainset.
> 
> Although I live on Anglesey which is generally fairly flat you can pick your ride to include some good climbs. I like to head off into Snowdonia as well, more so now that I have a decent low range of gears.



My TDF came with the 42/52 chainwheel, I have since converted it to a 30 speed, (3x10) 30/42/52 on the front, and 11/32 cassette. 
You could convert yours to a 24 speed, all you will need is 30/42/52 chain wheel a square taper version is around £50-60, left hand shifter a tad under £50 and a front derailleur £20, your rear derailleur (I presume it is a Shimano Claris) will run a 11-32 cassette, and a new chain.
Some will say is it really worth converting, I did and it transformed the bike, worth it in my view


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## G3CWI (15 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> I walked out with a Carrera TDF Limited Edition (or Non-Limited Edition as it turned out)



Limited to as many as they can shift.


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## Mongoose (16 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> My TDF came with the 42/52 chainwheel, I have since converted it to a 30 speed, (3x10) 30/42/52 on the front, and 11/32 cassette.
> You could convert yours to a 24 speed, all you will need is 30/42/52 chain wheel a square taper version is around £50-60, left hand shifter a tad under £50 and a front derailleur £20, your rear derailleur (I presume it is a Shimano Claris) will run a 11-32 cassette, and a new chain.
> Some will say is it really worth converting, I did and it transformed the bike, worth it in my view



Thanks for your suggestions. Having battled up some decent drags over the last 1500 miles with the 52/42T set-up I've built up some sizeable muscles and the 50/34T set-up makes climbing a stroll in the park. I'll keep going with the compact double for the moment. At 17st, a pound here and a pound there doesn't make much difference. If I can lose 3 or 4 stone I will probably be treating myself to a new bike. Despite the mileage, for me, it doesn't come easily.


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## Big_Dave (16 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> Thanks for your suggestions. Having battled up some decent drags over the last 1500 miles with the 52/42T set-up I've built up some sizeable muscles and the 50/34T set-up makes climbing a stroll in the park. I'll keep going with the compact double for the moment. At 17st, a pound here and a pound there doesn't make much difference. If I can lose 3 or 4 stone I will probably be treating myself to a new bike. Despite the mileage, for me, it doesn't come easily.



Well Done, I'm over a stone heavier than you are, there is no way I could get up big hills on a 42 inner chainring, I have the leg power but suffer with lung capacity.


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## Nigelnaturist (17 Sep 2014)

@Mongoose I would have done what @Big_Dave did but I love triples, the reason you cant find a chain ring less than 38th is they can't make them to fit 130BCD chainset, a 50/34 has a 110BCD which is why its called a compact (and not the size of the rings) I actually have a compact triple and a normal triple, but it has a really odd inner ring BCD so I can't change it, the other is pretty normal at 74mm BCD, but has 172.5mm crank-arms and I have got use to 170mm crank-arms now. 
I am saving for a new chain set at Spa cycles (not that its really need) but it looks nice with the chain rings, plus it gives me many more options re. gearing than my current one, one of which might be an even closer grouped cassette by using a 28th inner 28x25=30x27 (bar 3/10ths of an inch) its actually slightly long at 29.5" compared with my current 29.2" so instead of having a 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/24/27 cassette I could have a 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25 and a front of 50/38/28, I would lose 4 inch on the top end but not a major issue and my middle ring will be better around the 15/16/17 area in effect dropping the gear to what would be the same as 16/17/18 on my current set up, so a bit better for spinning for me.


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## Mongoose (17 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Mongoose I would have done what @Big_Dave did but I love triples, the reason you cant find a chain ring less than 38th is they can't make them to fit 130BCD chainset, a 50/34 has a 110BCD which is why its called a compact (and not the size of the rings) I actually have a compact triple and a normal triple, but it has a really odd inner ring BCD so I can't change it, the other is pretty normal at 74mm BCD, but has 172.5mm crank-arms and I have got use to 170mm crank-arms now.
> I am saving for a new chain set at Spa cycles (not that its really need) but it looks nice with the chain rings, plus it gives me many more options re. gearing than my current one, one of which might be an even closer grouped cassette by using a 28th inner 28x25=30x27 (bar 3/10ths of an inch) its actually slightly long at 29.5" compared with my current 29.2" so instead of having a 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/24/27 cassette I could have a 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25 and a front of 50/38/28, I would lose 4 inch on the top end but not a major issue and my middle ring will be better around the 15/16/17 area in effect dropping the gear to what would be the same as 16/17/18 on my current set up, so a bit better for spinning for me.



Thanks for the feedback and I've read your message with interest. I'm happy to stick with a double chainset as I never used the smallest ring on my old Trek even on the killer hills. I've done a few miles, 470 at the time of writing to be exact, since end of August'14 with the new 50/34T set-up on the front and 12/26T on the back and I'm finding the big drop quite hard to manage comfortably. I keep finding my legs spinning at huge speed with no resistance changing down or straining to increase cadence when changing up. Sometimes I judge it perfectly and probably more practice would resolve this but I have decided now to try my original 52T outer ring with a 38T inner ring and change the rear cassette to 11/28T. I'm hoping this will give me a more comfortable shift at the front with a bit more speed on the downs (52/11) and what I hope will be an insignificant increase in gearing to tackle the ups (38/28).

I should have the new set-up in place for a 60 miler the day after tomorrow so watch this space. I'll be delighted if you can point out any flaws in my plans or if I have overlooked anything obvious.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> Thanks for the feedback and I've read your message with interest. I'm happy to stick with a double chainset as I never used the smallest ring on my old Trek even on the killer hills. I've done a few miles, 470 at the time of writing to be exact, since end of August'14 with the new 50/34T set-up on the front and 12/26T on the back and I'm finding the big drop quite hard to manage comfortably. I keep finding my legs spinning at huge speed with no resistance changing down or straining to increase cadence when changing up. Sometimes I judge it perfectly and probably more practice would resolve this but I have decided now to try my original 52T outer ring with a 38T inner ring and change the rear cassette to 11/28T. I'm hoping this will give me a more comfortable shift at the front with a bit more speed on the downs (52/11) and what I hope will be an insignificant increase in gearing to tackle the ups (38/28).
> 
> I should have the new set-up in place for a 60 miler the day after tomorrow so watch this space. I'll be delighted if you can point out any flaws in my plans or if I have overlooked anything obvious.


A good option is a 52/36, however this also has the same problem as a 50/34 in the large jump, again a triple doesn't have this issue something manufacturers are seemingly ignoring the way the shifters seem to be progressing there will be no triples very soon. I very rarely use my 30th ring, though it does get used for better cadence control climbing sometimes, but usually where I would be on the 40x24 or 27 range which is some where in the middle of the cassette i.e. 16-19th 30x19=41.5" 40x27=39".
our topography is very similar to around here, though possibly with a tad more wind.
Hope this makes sense its probably easier than me explaining it.

Current set up on the left, intended on the right









as you can see by dropping the front by 2th on each ring and getting a closer grouped cassette I can retain the current gear range ( i very rarely use the 52x12) and when I got the bike it was 52x13=105" (it was actually a 52/42/30 with a 12-26 cassette) so you can see the range isn't that much different but better choice and the single step gearing certainly helps into wind as you also have the right gear.


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## ChrisEyles (18 Sep 2014)

Out of interest, what cassette/freewheel did your TDF come with on the back? 

I have a 52/42 crankset paired with a 14-28 (five speed) freewheel on my old ten speed, which is just about OK - though I agree it's a big much if paired with a 11-24! I'd personally much rather get a lower gear with a big 32t sprocket on the back than with a big jump between chainrings up front, makes shifting patterns a lot easier IMO.


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> Out of interest, what cassette/freewheel did your TDF come with on the back?
> 
> I have a 52/42 crankset paired with a 14-28 (five speed) freewheel on my old ten speed, which is just about OK - though I agree it's a big much if paired with a 11-24! I'd personally much rather get a lower gear with a big 32t sprocket on the back than with a big jump between chainrings up front, makes shifting patterns a lot easier IMO.


TDF came with 8 speed 12-26 Sram PG850 cassette, My Old Raleigh came with 42/52 and 14-24 6 speed freewheel although its now a 3x10 30/42/52 &11-32 cassette


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## ChrisEyles (18 Sep 2014)

The (new!) gearing on the Raleigh sounds perfect. Why more bikes aren't sold with this in the first place I don't know!


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> The (new!) gearing on the Raleigh sounds perfect. Why more bikes aren't sold with this in the first place I don't know!


The Raleigh (Kellogg's Pro Tour) is 26 years old, It's had a few transformations this year, I bought it sold as scrap for £20 but it does have a lot invested in it, probably far more than it's worth, it's gone from 2x6 non indexed sachs (downtube rear indexed mainstream Raleigh's came in a year later in 1989, the 89 model had several difference incl indexed and shimano equipped, internal cable routing and unicrown forks) 3x7 non indexed, 3x7 indexed (still downtube shifters but way better being indexed) the indexed 3x8 (downtube) to be honest it had been over 25 years since I last owned a "racer" and found it difficult to change gear quickly and efficiently, so I bought the dual control brake shifters still on 3x8, now this really did transform the bike to a whole new level, next step was 3x10, again a vast improvement, sorry I'm not a "classic purist", I like to put my own stamp on it and be different. 

A lot of people as I've said before buy a bike and don't realise that it can modified to make your cycling experience a whole lot better, manufacturers are to blame especially on beginners bikes putting ridiculously hard gearing on to make the bike "look" more appealing? only to find your legs explode on the first hill you come to after not riding a bike for X amount of years, then the bike is for sale on ebay or gathering dust in the shed and forgot about.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

ChrisEyles said:


> The (new!) *gearing on the Raleigh* sounds perfect. Why more bikes aren't sold with this in the first place I don't know!


I would possible opt for 52/40/30 and a 12-28 or better still what I outlined before, a 52x11 is a bloody big gear 124", many people think a chainset has to have the rings it came with. 
A 50/38/28 with an 11-32 would give you a range of 23-119" I would prefer a 12-28 but they don't do one as standard in 105 11-28 or 12-27, giving on the 50/38/28 a range of 27-109" with better options on the middle, but that is dependent on fitness levels, but even a 27" gear on a compact 50/34 would need to be 34x32 and you will end with some gaps on the rear.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> The Raleigh (Kellogg's Pro Tour) is 26 years old, It's had a few transformations this year, I bought it sold as scrap for £20 but it does have a lot invested in it, probably far more than it's worth, it's gone from 2x6 non indexed sachs (downtube rear indexed mainstream Raleigh's came in a year later in 1989, the 89 model had several difference incl indexed and shimano equipped, internal cable routing and unicrown forks) 3x7 non indexed, 3x7 indexed (still downtube shifters but way better being indexed) the indexed 3x8 (downtube) to be honest it had been over 25 years since I last owned a "racer" and found it difficult to change gear quickly and efficiently, so I bought the dual control brake shifters still on 3x8, now this really did transform the bike to a whole new level, next step was 3x10, again a vast improvement, sorry I'm not a "classic purist", I like to put my own stamp on it and be different.
> 
> *A lot of people as I've said before buy a bike and don't realise that it can modified to make your cycling experience a whole lot better, manufacturers are to blame especially on beginners bikes putting ridiculously hard gearing on to make the bike "look" more appealing? only to find your legs explode on the first hill you come to after not riding a bike for X amount of years, then the bike is for sale on ebay or gathering dust in the shed and forgot about*.


Totally agree with this, and with 105 moving to what just seems a double setup is going to limit things in the future, i suppose it depends what tiagra's next incarceration with be like as good as a 5700/3 setup. 11sp could just about replicate most gearing on a triple bar the big jump on the front.
I have an old Carleton but its taking some time to get it sorted (finances mainly), though with a new stem (modern conversion) like you I am not a purest more things have to be functional and work well, when money allows, this will become a triple but possibly more touring orientated, it would mean having a bike to do all the errands on rather than on the Viking, I do have some Old Sora 7sp triple shifters, it really just needs some new brakes, wheels like I stem, I have most of the other kit.


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> I would possible opt for 52/40/30 and a 12-28 or better still what I outlined before, a 52x11 is a bloody big gear 124", many people think a chainset has to have the rings it came with.
> A 50/38/28 with an 11-32 would give you a range of 23-119" I would prefer a 12-28 but they don't do one as standard in 105 11-28 or 12-27, giving on the 50/38/28 a range of 27-109" with better options on the middle, but that is dependent on fitness levels, but even a 27" gear on a compact 50/34 would need to be 34x32 and you will end with some gaps on the rear.


Got my 12-27 cassette now, sram version, probably the same ratio's as the 105, 12-12-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27, looked at the 12-28 but it had the 19-22 jump like the 11/32 I was using. Not tried the 12-27 yet tho.

I got my Claris 8 speed triple shifters going spare, set if your looking to 8 speed the Carlton, I think I got still got some Weinmann calipers somewhere in nice condition.


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## guitarpete247 (18 Sep 2014)

Currently the Halfords website says the TDF should be fitted with:
*OVERVIEW*

*Exact Frame Size:* 51cm
*Forks:* FULL HI-TEN STEEL
*Frame Material:* Alloy
*Front Brake:* Tektro R312 Dual pivot
*Gender:* Mens
*Number of Gears:* 14
*Rear Brake:* Tektro R312 Dual pivot
*Wheel Size:* 700c
*DETAILED SPECS*

*Chainset:* PROWHEEL, AE-221C, STEEL *50/34*T - 170mm
*Front Mech:* Shimano Tourney
*Gear Shifters:* Shimano Tourney, 14 speed
*Pedals:* VP-399T Road Type
*Rear Mech:* Shimano Tourney
*Rims:* DOUBLE WALL ALLOY BLACK
*Suspension:* Rigid
*Type:* Road Bikes
*Tyres:* Vee Rubber
a 55/34 tooth chainset. Has these details only recently changed?


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> Got my 12-27 cassette now, sram version, probably the same ratio's as the 105, 12-12-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27, looked at the 12-28 but it had the 19-22 jump like the 11/32 I was using. Not tried the 12-27 yet tho.
> 
> I got my Claris 8 speed triple shifters going spare, set if your looking to 8 speed the Carlton, I think I got still got some Weinmann calipers somewhere in nice condition.


Same ratios. I have the original callipers that are centre pull Weinmann too, original blocks I think as well.


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## Mongoose (18 Sep 2014)

Good point on modifying bikes to improve the cycling experience if you enjoy learning and understanding the whole concept of gearing and enjoy a bit of tinkering too. This is where I got to with my Carrera TDF. I persuaded myself that I was getting a lot of bike for the money with some good kit. It has been enjoyable learning and modifying the bike myself and has massively enhanced the overall cycling experience. The same could be said of other more basic adjustments such as seat height and position and cleat position. It is amazing how relatively small adjustments can have such a big impact on the comfort of cycling. There is a huge amount of knowledge and info available on sites like this and the internet generally and I would encourage newcomers to learn and persevere.


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

guitarpete247 said:


> Currently the Halfords website says the TDF should be fitted with:
> *OVERVIEW*
> 
> *Exact Frame Size:* 51cm
> ...


That is for the "New 2014 model" it is different to the previous version, 
The older version was 16 speed on launch it had 38/52 12-26 with 2300 components later changed to 2400 components, and 42/52 front 12-26, the new version has had a serious downgrading to 14 speed with 28t screw on freewheel and tourney components, and at the same price (£269.99) as I paid for the 16 speed version.


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

There are always good people around to offer help and advice, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another, it doesn't mean the advice is wrong, it's what works for you, sometimes it's just trail and error to get the right set up until you get a better understanding of the gears, fitness goes up and fitness goes down, the right set up is generally a compromise (unless you have deep pockets) of what is best for hills and flat etc. You can have the right set up, a few months down the line as the fitness improves you may find you need another set up that suits the "new you" and it's back to the drawing board, once you learn to use the gear inches it becomes easier to know what gearing to buy to achieve the ratios you need.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> That is for the "New 2014 model" it is different to the previous version,
> The older version was 16 speed on launch it had 38/52 12-26 with 2300 components later changed to 2400 components, and 42/52 front 12-26, the new version has had a serious downgrading to 14 speed with 28t screw on freewheel and tourney components, and at the same price (£269.99) as I paid for the 16 speed version.


This has happened very seriously with Viking so many have butterfly shifters now, a few years ago they were doing carbon frames and 105 equipped bikes. Though in general the bikes are quite heavy mine with a rack a mudguards and saddle bag, water bottles and pump, weighs in usually at about 12.5+Kg's.


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## Big_Dave (18 Sep 2014)

I think all budget and entry level has suffered with downgrades in recent years, popularity has pushed new bike prices up while specification has regressed to cash in while the popularity is at a current high, I look at a £500 big brand bikes and shake my head on the budget components that are fitted to them, jazzed up supermarket bikes


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## Mongoose (19 Sep 2014)

I need a hint here. How are you posting your bike specs as signatures? Can you set this up in profiles or do you do this from file?


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## Mongoose (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave you've hit the nail on the head. There are novices rushing through the door (me included!) blinded by bling. Too many choices, deals everywhere and new bike salesmen fast becoming like new car salesmen. As you say, the Carrera TDF has been substantially downgraded with my neighbour being an innocent and naïve victim of the downgrade.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> I need a hint here. How are you posting your bike specs as signatures? Can you set this up in profiles or do you do this from file?


You can set this up in your profile page, I think you have to have made a certain amount of posts before the option appears in your profile settings


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

@Mongoose Dave is right there is an option for signature, under personal information.


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## Mongoose (22 Sep 2014)

Got my SRAM 11/28 cassette through which is now fitted to the Carrera TDF with 52/38T chainset at the front. I used the original 52T outer ring and changed the 42T inner ring for a 38T obtained from Ribble. I did a brief 15 mile test run tonight and first impressions are that I have now found the correct set-up for me for the moment. I don't appear to have lost anything on the hills and find the change up and down at the front much smoother and more comfortable than with the 50/34T chainset previously fitted. Planning to do 50 miles in the morning to be sure.


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## Mongoose (23 Sep 2014)

I can now confirm that I'm delighted with the new set-up of my Carrera TDF 2013 with 52/38T up front and the 11/28 cassette at the back. I enjoyed a very comfortable 50 miles today. I found the gear ratios ideal for me across the full range, high and low, and the transition between the front rings is now much more comfortable and manageable. At no point did I feel I hadn't got the right gear. It's taken a while to get to the right configuration but it has been great fun reading, learning, fitting and testing. I've learnt a huge amount about all aspects of cycling in the process.

For all Carrera TDF owners who inadvertently bought the model with the 52/42T front chainset (Pro Wheel silver chain rings) and find the hills a struggle, don't despair. This bike, 8 speed with paddle gear shifters, is a much better bike than the current 2014 model (and it's immediate predecessor). Don't be put off cycling or feel you have to trade in your bike because, at a small cost, you can have a fun and faithful runner.

To summarise, after 3 months of my owning the bike, I would recommend these simple changes in the following order until you find your most comfortable configuration.

1. Change the 42T inner ring to a 38T. This is cheaply and easily done. You don't need to be a bike mechanic to do this. You can get a 38T ring for around £10. I got mine from ribblecycles.co.uk. Fitting the chain ring requires a crank removal tool to take the pedals off and a hex key to swap the inner chain ring. You don't need a new chain and no adjustments should be necessary to the front or rear derailleurs. If you do it yourself, do take a good look at how the rings and crank spider all fit together before you dismantle them.

2. If you don't find this improves your experience enough then I would recommend changing the rear cassette from the 12/26 to 11/28. This is very simple to do as well. I managed this easily enough with a chain whip and cassette removal socket. I got a SRAM 11/28 cassette from Wiggle for £12.50. I have read that you don't need to change the chain but, having added two teeth to the biggest ring at the back, I fitted a new chain with one extra link (55 links). Once you have done this you have a similar gearing to a compact double (50/34T) with a 12/28 cassette in the lowest gear but a significantly higher gearing (13.5%) at the top end. 

By tomorrow I will have completed 2000 miles on my Carrera TDF since the middle June. I'm looking forward to the next 2000 being a more enjoyable experience with The Right Gear!


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## johnpenn81 (23 Sep 2014)

@Mongoose A complete novice here who wants to make the change to the 38T chainring. Could you provide the exact details for the 38T front ring please as i have looked on the website you provided but there seems to be different sizes.

Out of interest how do you measure the size?


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## Big_Dave (23 Sep 2014)

I agree, altering the gearing to suit your own style of riding is a must on any bike regardless of its price tag, you have found your "Ideal set up", my gearing 3x10 30/42/52 11/32 is ideal for me, Nigel (Viking bike) has his own 3x10 ideal set up, 3 different people with 3 different set ups, it's what works for us as individuals to improve our cycling experience.


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## Nigelnaturist (23 Sep 2014)

@Mongoose I might have gone with a 12-28 cassette, it is als possible to easily mix and match the rear cogs, I believe the sram have screws holding the cassettes together (shimano use rivets), undo these the cassette will come apart and you can use what cogs you want (providing of course they are not worn). Not sure on your ratios but I would have started with the original 12th and work fro there. 52x11 is a really big gear. I actually never went below a 52x13 on a 52 ring or 48x12 on a 48, both being the same gear of 105".


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## Big_Dave (23 Sep 2014)

I do use the 52 11gear on the long faster descents just to keep the legs spinning with some resistance even at 43 mph its a comfortable cadence. I tried the 12 27 yesterday and it was about 5mph slower on the descents so can probably live with that. On the flat it was great having a 1 tooth jump between 12 17 gears.


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## Nigelnaturist (23 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> I do use the *52 11gear on the long faster descents* just to keep the legs spinning with some resistance even at 43 mph its a comfortable cadence. I tried the 12 27 yesterday and it was about 5mph slower on the descents so can probably live with that. On the flat it was great having a 1 tooth jump between 12 17 gears.


No doubt Dave, but it is the only time most of us would use such a combination, and as you just quoted its good having the closer grouping, you wouldn't have that option on an 8sp starting at 11, I spin out on a 52x13 (105") at just over 34mph 110rpm 52x12 just over 37mph even I struggle pushing that gear downhill more due to speed and cadence rather than the length so I just tuck in after that, mind you round here I have probably got to the bottom by then 
I did set up on a 48/38/26 chainset a 12/13/15/17/19/21/24 which gave a good range of 28.5-105" a bit short on both ends than mu current set 29.2-114" swapping the 12 to an 11 would have given it 28.5-114.8, the same pretty much as my current set up.


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## cyberknight (23 Sep 2014)

On a slightly different angle i found the standard compact 50/34 to much a drop so i changed to a 36 inner ring running a 12-25 cassette which gives me a good spread of gears and i dont spin like a madman when i drop onto the small ring which is what i used to do before .
The weekender has the same 50/36 with an 11-28 because if i go on a club run they seem to know where all the meaty hills are and of course down hills.....


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## Mongoose (23 Sep 2014)

johnpenn81 said:


> @Mongoose A complete novice here who wants to make the change to the 38T chainring. Could you provide the exact details for the 38T front ring please as i have looked on the website you provided but there seems to be different sizes.
> 
> Out of interest how do you measure the size?



Here is the link http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/ro...al-130mm-shimano-8-9-10-chainring/strochri300
You will need a crank removal tool and a hex key but it is very straight forward. You shouldn't have to adjust anything else unless you are changing the rear cassette too. I should change the inner ring to 38T and give it a whirl. If you have the 12/26 rear cassette you will notice a big change. If it is still not enough then you may need to get the 28 teeth on the rear.

Good luck, enjoy and look forward to hearing how you get on.


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## Mongoose (23 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Mongoose I might have gone with a 12-28 cassette, it is als possible to easily mix and match the rear cogs, I believe the sram have screws holding the cassettes together (shimano use rivets), undo these the cassette will come apart and you can use what cogs you want (providing of course they are not worn). Not sure on your ratios but I would have started with the original 12th and work fro there. 52x11 is a really big gear. I actually never went below a 52x13 on a 52 ring or 48x12 on a 48, both being the same gear of 105".



I'm pretty sure the 11T and 12T are interchangeable as the old and new cassettes are both SRAM. The 11/28 came with the 11T & 13T detached. When I removed the 12/26 cassette the 12T was detached. I shall bear you suggestion in mind. I am finding myself using the 52T x 11 and even when I'm not I enjoy knowing there is something in reserve!


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## Mongoose (24 Sep 2014)

johnpenn81 said:


> @Mongoose A complete novice here who wants to make the change to the 38T chainring. Could you provide the exact details for the 38T front ring please as i have looked on the website you provided but there seems to be different sizes.
> 
> Out of interest how do you measure the size?



In response to your question about the size.........

I'm not a cycle mechanic or an engineer but I enjoy tinkering so don't quote me on this but I think the size is the diameter of the chain ring measured across the ring between the holes for the hex nuts IF they were opposite each other or 'diametrically opposed'. Engineers refer to this as PCD which I think is short for Pitch Circle Diameter. Of course because there are 5 holes for the hex nuts, equally spaced around the circumference, none of them are diametrically opposite each other so it is tricky for us mere mortals to measure. I'm sure someone will put me right on this. In the case of the offending 52/42T chainset / crankset that came with the Carrera TDF 2013 (Shamano Claris paddle gear shifters and silver Pro Wheel crankset) this diameter is 130mm.

I forgot to mention that you will need a hex key to undo the crank bolts too. I don't normally like to advertise and I don't want to add to your costs but, on this occasion, I will let on that Aldi do a fairly comprehensive cycle tool kit for about £20 that contains everything you will need to make all the changes I've suggested and maintain your Carrera generally. 

I hope you will let us know how you get on and be reassured that you've got a lot of bike for the money. Change that inner chain ring, get those tyres pumped up (120 psi) and get out and enjoy. You may have noted from earlier in this chat, that, as I fall into the category of the heavier cyclist, I had to upgrade my tyres after suffering numerous punctures including two on one outing. Mongoose


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## cyberknight (24 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> Here is the link http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/ro...al-130mm-shimano-8-9-10-chainring/strochri300
> You will need a crank removal tool and a hex key but it is very straight forward. You shouldn't have to adjust anything else unless you are changing the rear cassette too. I should change the inner ring to 38T and give it a whirl. If you have the 12/26 rear cassette you will notice a big change. If it is still not enough then you may need to get the 28 teeth on the rear.
> 
> Good luck, enjoy and look forward to hearing how you get on.


Am i mis reading your reply ? a crank removal tool ?
When i changed my inner rings all i did was undo the bolts holding the spider together and slip the rings over the crank arm, no need to get a crank puller and take the crank off.


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## Mongoose (24 Sep 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Am i mis reading your reply ? a crank removal tool ?
> When i changed my inner rings all i did was undo the bolts holding the spider together and slip the rings over the crank arm, no need to get a crank puller and take the crank off.



Fair comment. I hadn't thought about doing it this way as, although I didn't need to, I changed my bottom bracket too, which did require removing the cranks.
No need for the crank removal tool or hex key for the crank bolts then. Just a hex key to undo the five hex bolts holding the spider and rings together.


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## Nigelnaturist (24 Sep 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Am i mis reading your reply ? a crank removal tool ?
> When i changed my inner rings all i did was undo the bolts holding the spider together and slip the rings over the crank arm, no need to get a crank puller and take the crank off.


It doesn't always work, depends on the rings and cranks.
@johnpenn81 as @Mongoose says the P.C.D. or B.C.D. (Bolt centre diameter), it can be worked out from measuring from centre of one hole to the centre of the next,
and then use this table to work out you B.C.D. most are pretty common 130mm normal double, 110 compact doubles (this is why they are compacts, not the chain ring sizes), you can't fit a ring of less than 38th to a 130mm its why they use the 110mm for the 34th, 74mm BCD is usually used for the inner ring, though Shimano triple use different sizes, my prowheel has a really odd size in that i cant find a size to fit. Campagnolo double is 135mm BCD so it is important to check them.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Sep 2014)

Mongoose said:


> Engineers refer to this as PCD which I think is short for Pitch Circle Diameter. Of course because there are 5 holes for the hex nuts, equally spaced around the circumference, none of them are diametrically opposite each other so _*it is tricky for us mere mortals to measure.*_


 SHeldon to the rescue http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html


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## Nigelnaturist (24 Sep 2014)

@Dogtrousers great minds and all that.


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## cyberknight (24 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> It doesn't always work, depends on the rings and cranks.
> @johnpenn81 as @Mongoose says the P.C.D. or B.C.D. (Bolt centre diameter), it can be worked out from measuring from centre of one hole to the centre of the next,
> and then use this table to work out you B.C.D. most are pretty common 130mm normal double, 110 compact doubles (this is why they are compacts, not the chain ring sizes), you can't fit a ring of less than 38th to a 130mm its why they use the 110mm for the 34th, 74mm BCD is usually used for the inner ring, though Shimano triple use different sizes, my prowheel has a really odd size in that i cant find a size to fit. Campagnolo double is 135mm BCD so it is important to check them.


Indeed, thats what i get for posting after getting home from nights


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## johnpenn81 (24 Sep 2014)

Thanks for your help guys really appreciate it. Just purchased the 38T ring so hopefully it will arrive in time to test it out this weekend. Will see how I shape up and think about the rear cassette after a test run.... Wish me luck


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## Nigelnaturist (24 Sep 2014)

@johnpenn81
If this is any use to you the gear inch on a 42/52 as it would be on my cassette on the left and with a 38/52 on the right








If you want a specific table let me know your cassette I will do you a couple of tables, there are places on the net also.


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## Mongoose (24 Sep 2014)

@johnpenn81 If you haven't got your head around gearing yet I have converted Nigel's table into miles per hour for your existing set-up (52/42) and your new set-up (52/38) given a fixed cadence (or rpm in layman's terms) of 80 rpm at the pedals / cranks. For us amateurs I think a cadence of 80 rpm is fairly respectable although this is very much a matter of personal preference. This chat has been mainly about finding the right gearing that enables you to maintain a fairly constant cadence on the flat and on the inclines. I find that at around 80rpm I can keep going for long periods without running short of breath and without having aching muscles. It takes very little to upset this delicate equilibrium which is why correct gearing and a smooth transition between the gears is so important. Hitting the wrong gear at the wrong time can significantly disrupt your rhythm.

As a very rough indicator, in your lowest gear (38/28) when you have the new inner ring you will be doing about 9 mph at 80 rpm and in your highest gear (52/12) you will be doing about 27 mph at 80 rpm. Thinking in terms of cadence and gearing discounts externalities such as hills and wind and only reflects distance travelled by the wheels in relation to revolutions turned at the pedals. I believe the best way to improve performance is by focusing on a comfortable cadence.

View attachment 57349


And all you wanted to know was where you could find a new chainring!


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## johnpenn81 (29 Sep 2014)

@Mongoose @Nigelnaturist Thankyou so much for this guys really appreciate it. To be honest i didnt realise there was so much to learn!!

Good news is I have had the new front ring on and changed the cassette to a 11-28 as per your suggestions. Took the bike out for a long ride yesterday and the gearing is now perfect. Hit a couple of hills with steep section in the dales where is gets up to 15-17% for a few hundred metres and i could actually turn the pedals over now.

Really makes a big difference to the enjoyment factor of a ride when you know you have made it to the top of a climb on the bike and not had to get off and push. Big thanks to you both for all your help. 

My wife also sends her regards as I had been talking her into letting me ditch the TDF & spend a £1200 on a bike with better performance. Think i have everything I need now for a while yet


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## Mongoose (29 Sep 2014)

johnpenn81 said:


> @Mongoose @Nigelnaturist Thankyou so much for this guys really appreciate it. To be honest i didnt realise there was so much to learn!!
> 
> Good news is I have had the new front ring on and changed the cassette to a 11-28 as per your suggestions. Took the bike out for a long ride yesterday and the gearing is now perfect. Hit a couple of hills with steep section in the dales where is gets up to 15-17% for a few hundred metres and i could actually turn the pedals over now.
> 
> ...



Delighted it has made the difference for you. I hope a few more TDF owners struggling with the 42T inner ring pick up on this thread and realise how simple and inexpensive it is to address the problem. No need to abandon them or sell them or be put off cycling. 

Done 225 miles now with the new setup on my TDF and really enjoying it. I hope the weather holds.


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## Nigelnaturist (30 Sep 2014)

As @Mongoose says @johnpenn81 glad you have a bike you enjoy riding,

I have a Viking that weighs in with bottles saddle bag and mudguards at 13.5Kg's ( I weighed it yesterday), it some times is heavier if I am doing errands rack and panniers, so gearing is everything to me, I am never going to be very fast on it, but hold my own reasonable well on some strava segments with bikes weighing much less, I was going to say about cost, but totted it up the other day and to get them same bike with the same level of kit I would be looking over £1,000 (It cost £300 in 2008), I am fortunate in that its a triple so I have further options on low gearing, this means I can have a closer grouped cassette for instance your 38x28 at 35.7" I can get on a 26x19=36", I currently have a 12-27, so my 38 ring is very similar to yours, and I find i get around most things around here on it, that doesn't mean i wouldn't drop to the 26th as it gives me better option whilst spinning up hill as it stand right down to a 26x27=25.3", I am looking however to change this to a 12-25 (27-109") so the rear ratios are much closer, even toying with the idea of a 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 on the 50/38/26 giving me a range of 29"-109" almost the same as my 52/40/30 on a 12-27 had 29-114" but with really close ratios on the rear, I hate that 17-19 jump.


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## cyberknight (1 Oct 2014)

Tongue in cheek mode engage ............


MTFU , when i was in my twenties i rode a gas pipe bike 52/42 with a 13-19 block !, 

exit mode.
Hurt like hell on hills mind .


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## Big_Dave (1 Oct 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Tongue in cheek mode engage ............
> 
> 
> MTFU , when i was in my twenties i rode a gas pipe bike 52/42 with a 13-19 block !,
> ...


 
I had an old Peugeot gas pipe 10sp racer in my early teens to go to school on, and go into Chesterfield for my Saturday job, it was soo heavy, my 12sp Viscount was light as a feather in comparison


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## Nigelnaturist (1 Oct 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Tongue in cheek mode engage ............
> 
> 
> MTFU , when i was in my twenties i rode a gas pipe bike 52/42 with a 13-19 block !,
> ...


In my late teens I had a Gitane can't remember the rear, same front as it was pretty standard, but I am not in my teens and I have better choices how I want to gear the bike, I may well end up with a 12-23 cassette, pretty much the gearing on this 50/38/26 as was on my 52/40/30 12-27 just better geared on the 50 and 38 with the option should it be needed, remember my bike can weigh up to 20Kg's and maybe more with the rack and panniers.


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## Mongoose (4 Oct 2014)

guitarpete247 said:


> Currently the Halfords website says the TDF should be fitted with:
> *OVERVIEW*
> 
> The Carrera TDF has had a serious dressing down. The model prior to this had the Prowheel 52/42T chainset at the front and SRAM 12/26T 8 speed cassette at the back with Shimano Claris 16 speed gear shifters. The front chainset with a 42T inner ring may have been ill-conceived but, on this version, with small tweaks to the front and back gearing, you could get a lot of bike for not much money. This is not the case with the latest version with the spec you have detailed. It may boast a 50/34T compact double chainset but, at the very least, it has taken a step back with a smaller range of gears and inferior gear shifters. Also, in my experience, the 50/34T arrangement up front is a hard one to manage comfortably with such a big step (16T) between the two front rings.


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## cyberknight (4 Oct 2014)

Which is why changed my compacts to 50/36 , works a treat .


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## mattwenn (18 Dec 2014)

Been reading this with interest..... I've got a TDF 52/42.... hills are not nice... legs burn and I'm already in bottom gear!!

I'm going to have a read tonight at home and decide what 'treat' I get myself along with a set of 105 wheels to make the bike lighter.


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## cyberknight (18 Dec 2014)

mattwenn said:


> Been reading this with interest..... I've got a TDF 52/42.... hills are not nice... legs burn and I'm already in bottom gear!!
> 
> I'm going to have a read tonight at home and decide what 'treat' I get myself along with a set of 105 wheels to make the bike lighter.


Nice, they will make the bike a little lighter (maybe 1lb )and go for it if you can but the weight saving will only help slightly and a more effective upgrade will be a gearing change, a quick method would be a longer cage rear mech, wider range cassette + chain or as already stated above a new BB and compact chainset .


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## Big_Dave (18 Dec 2014)

The "right gearing" is the be all and end all in my opinion, I converted my TDF to 3x10 with 30/42/52 front and 11-32 rear in the summer, it has transformed the bike, I have just geared it down further to 28/39/50 on the front, best thing I ever did was get rid of the stock gearing, I converted it straight out of the box to 3x8, 30/42/52 & 11-32 cassette before going 3x10, If I had to choose lighter wheels or better gearing then it would be gearing first every time, my other road bike is an old steel Raleigh (also 3x10) and is a kilo lighter than the TDF yes the Raleigh is marginally quicker by a couple minutes over say 30 miles or so but nothing to write home about, my advice is get the gearing sorted first as it makes the rides much more enjoyable. Triples are a bit out of fashion these days but I swear by them.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Dec 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Nice, they will make the bike a little lighter (maybe 1lb )and go for it if you can but the weight saving will only help slightly and a more effective upgrade will be a gearing change, a quick method would be a longer cage rear mech, wider range cassette + chain or as already stated above a new BB and compact chainset .


Triple, better option as normal double and a low range if needed and closer grouping of the cassette.


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## cyberknight (19 Dec 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Triple, better option as normal double and a low range if needed and closer grouping of the cassette.


Granny legs  
Each to their own mate, i like a 50/36 compact with a 12-25 but everyone's legs are different.


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## Big_Dave (19 Dec 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Granny legs
> Each to their own mate, i like a 50/36 compact with a 12-25 but everyone's legs are different.


they would have been granny gears back in the 80's lol 42/52 14-24 real men's gears, *...trundles off thinking thank god they invented triples*


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## cyberknight (19 Dec 2014)

Read the whole thread, i used to ride 52/42 with a 13- 19 .


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Dec 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Granny legs
> Each to their own mate, i like a 50/36 compact with a 12-25 but everyone's legs are different.


Not at all, I could gear a triple with more useful gears and have the same range as any double ( I choose not too), having said that I very rarely have to drop off the 38 ring, in fact I very rarely have to change to the 50th. I just don't like big jumps between the rear gears, but newbies see it as a weakness without fully understanding the implications, besides I have a 4+kg disadvantage over a many bikes to start with.  and thats my best road bike.


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## cyberknight (20 Dec 2014)

Yes you have more usable gears , i was not disputing that  all i said was everyone's legs are different and find what works for them .Its also good to be able to apply effective power at different cadences .


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