# Going backwards



## starhawk (3 Sep 2011)

Anyone have a good solution for moving backwards on a tadpole? As for now I use the spokes on the front wheels to roll backwards but it's hard if your not on level ground. The obvious solution to free your feat from the pedals is not the preffered solution, getting them back is always an issue. The best solution would be a shifter to go in reverse but that's complicated to say the least


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## byegad (3 Sep 2011)

Releasing a foot and heeling back is my accepted method of reversing (And for most recumbent trikers I know.) and clipping and unclipping is a breeze. I don't understand what's so difficult about it!


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## Tigerbiten (3 Sep 2011)

Unless its downhill backwards, I always unclip, either one foot or both feet, and back the trike up with it/them.

My record is only a couple of yards backwards with the trailer on before it jack-knifes.
On a single track road, if the other driver is being a ***** about backing into a passing place, I can waste so much time trying to back it up if I want to .........


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## markg0vbr (4 Sep 2011)

Tigerbiten said:


> Unless its downhill backwards, I always unclip, either one foot or both feet, and back the trike up with it/them.
> 
> My record is only a couple of yards backwards with the trailer on before it jack-knifes.
> On a single track road, if the other driver is being a ***** about backing into a passing place, I can waste so much time trying to back it up if I want to .........



he he he, it is amassing how hard a fully loaded trike can be to peddle through narrow roads / pinch points when some one is tailgating revving there engine, it just saps all the strength from my legs 

the reverse thing, on the q my heals can just catch the ground when i back peddle so it looks like i have a reverse gear  or i put my hands on the ground and push back. on the hand crank i can grab the back wheels like a wheel chair.


i don't use the spokes to pull the wheels back as i think it is putting unnecessary strain on them.


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## byegad (4 Sep 2011)

With my Trail I can hand push backwards using the top of the front wheels. Not possible with mudguards of course.


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## starhawk (4 Sep 2011)

Well I used the top of my front wheels until I got mudguards, the reason I don't want to unclip is that it's not a breeze to clip in again, sometimes it's real easy sometimes you have to sit a long time to find that position


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## byegad (4 Sep 2011)

starhawk said:


> Well I used the top of my front wheels until I got mudguards, the reason I don't want to unclip is that it's not a breeze to clip in again, sometimes it's real easy sometimes you have to sit a long time to find that position



So your cleats are not proud enough. Try a shim. Really, once set up, clipping in is no problem at all.


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## ufkacbln (4 Sep 2011)

Tigerbiten said:


> Unless its downhill backwards,



Where I park the trike at work is a slight incline, I just sit and it rolls backwards

Then the other week, someone asked me how I selected reverse gear as they couldn't see a specific lever!


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## byegad (4 Sep 2011)

I can reverse my QNT by going forward very slowly and grabbing the front brakes then releasing as the appropriate point. The stored energy in the frame rolls me back. Up hill and on poor surfacing a heel in the ground works much more efficiently.


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## starhawk (4 Sep 2011)

byegad said:


> So your cleats are not proud enough. Try a shim. Really, once set up, clipping in is no problem at all.



How would a shim help? Just because you have no problem clipping in doesn't neccesary mean the same goes for everybody else. For me clipping in can be from very easy to very timeconsuming you never know from time to time.
I have no real problem going in reverse anymore, mostly going round the problem by planning my route so I can "turn out" of the situation, just wondered if their was an easy solution without freeing your feets if you got into a a corner


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## Tigerbiten (4 Sep 2011)

How firm/tight are your pedals set to.
The firmer/tighter the cleats are held in the pedals, the harder it is to clip them in as more force is needed to push the cleat home.
You could try ajusting the setting on the pedal so that the cleats are held slightly less.
I endded up setting mine to the easiest possible setting to clip/unclip and now I rarely have a problem clipping in and I've never yet to pull a cleat out of the pedal under load.
Also at that setting it putts a lot less twisting force on my knees when I unclip.
It does not make that much difference if I only unclip a couple of times on a ride, but it does make a difference if you constantly unclipping/reclipping as you do a lot of stops, gates, etc, etc, by yourself.

Also try and get a feel of how it feels right before the cleat slots home.
The better you can reproduce that feel, the easier it is to clip in.
You basicly training you musles to get it right every time, so you don't have to think about it.
It took me a couple of month working on it to get it right, but now its so easy to clip in.

Luck ...........


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## byegad (4 Sep 2011)

If you are having trouble clipping in one reason can be the cleat is not proud enough from your shoe. Removing the cleat and fitting a thin shim under it will push it out and make clipping in easier. If you are using SPDs they have a grub screw to adjust the tension, try screwing that out a half turn at a time, but be careful not to screw it right out as they can be beggars to get back in.

Even when everything's set up properly I've known a lot of people have trouble clipping in to begin with but the knack comes soon enough. I've not met anyone with a normal range of movement who found it difficult once set properly. If you do there are other types of pedals. I now use Crank Brothers pedals which have an eggbeater centre. I had SPDs and rode several thousand miles with them and found the cleat transfers too much of the effort onto the cleat area of the shoe giving foot issues. I had no issue getting clipped in, after I shimmed the cleats on one of my pairs of shoes. Unshimmed it was almost impossible to clip in with those shoes but easy with another pair.


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## starhawk (8 Sep 2011)

The problem is not clicking it in, it is the aim that is a problem if I get the foot in the right position theres no problem to click, but if I aim wrong, well you see the problem


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## Fiona N (8 Sep 2011)

starhawk said:


> The problem is not clicking it in, it is the aim that is a problem if I get the foot in the right position theres no problem to click, but if I aim wrong, well you see the problem



But that does support Byegad's point - if the cleats not proud enough, it's difficult to locate it in the front of the pedal probably before pushing down to snap in. I had the same problem with my Quattros (Crank Brothers also with eggbeater centre but more platform as befits a road pedal). I use mtb shoes which have slightly too deep recesses for the cleat and I have a devil of a job locating the cleat in the pedal. With a shim of barely 0.5mm, the problem just disappears. You should try it


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## starhawk (10 Sep 2011)

Fiona N said:


> But that does support Byegad's point - if the cleats not proud enough, it's difficult to locate it in the front of the pedal probably before pushing down to snap in. I had the same problem with my Quattros (Crank Brothers also with eggbeater centre but more platform as befits a road pedal). I use mtb shoes which have slightly too deep recesses for the cleat and I have a devil of a job locating the cleat in the pedal. With a shim of barely 0.5mm, the problem just disappears. You should try it



OK but how are they to walk on then? I find them a little slippery as they are now to walk on (besides that where do a find a shim?)


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## byegad (10 Sep 2011)

No real issue, the shim is so thin and you should have got some with the pedals and cleats. If not, try cutting a footprint of a removed cleat from a small piece of a postcard, cut out the holes for the bolts and try it. 

Or you could spend vast amounts of money on a reverse gear set up, it can be done but it won't be easy.


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## markg0vbr (10 Sep 2011)

ball of string and a big brick, affix string to brick, throw brick over shoulder and wind string in.

i have had to put a shim "12mm of it" under one cleat as i have one leg longer than the other, any thing will do, but when you get new shoes they normally have the cut out bit of the sole held in with two bolts in to a metal plat on the inside of the shoe the cleats normally have the same metal plate on them when you get them.
so with slightly longer bolts you should be able to put one plate on the out side under the cleat and one on the inside like it should be.


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## starhawk (11 Sep 2011)

A ball of string and a brick isn't such an axpensive proposition is it




Couldn't find any suitable shims, but the shoes had four holes and I had placed the cleats in the back position, moved them to the forward position and made a mental note on where the cleats where in relation to certain features on the top of the shoe, then walked to the garage and tried it out, It seems a bit easier now


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## byegad (11 Sep 2011)

Still I'd suggest, cleats fully back and a shim. For goodness sake, just try it! If it doesn't work for you at least you tried it. 

OR else go for hugely expensive and engineeringwise complex revere gear.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (11 Sep 2011)

Hmm...even though I dropped out of my engineering degree many many years ago, this thread has me instantly mentally desiging a setup for trikes and quads with fixed sprockets and a freewheeling chainring setup with a fixed small ring and freewheeling middle and large rings (no need for freewheeling in smallest climbing gears, no need for high gears in reverse)

Small problem it would need to be pedalled forwards a couple of feet to drop the chain onto the small ring in order to engage reverse, and would not be "idiot-proof" if the rider tried to change hears during a reverse

Yep, it's probably a good thing I dropped out


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## classic33 (11 Sep 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> Where I park the trike at work is a slight incline, I just sit and it rolls backwards Then the other week, someone asked me how I selected reverse gear as they couldn't see a specific lever!


 At least I'm not the only person to be asked that question.


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## classic33 (11 Sep 2011)

Following on from sheffield tigers suggestion, there is this bit if you feel like having a go yourself

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Retro-Direct


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## BentMikey (14 Sep 2011)

If clipping in and out is difficult, and assuming your equipment is set up correctly, then more practice is needed. It's easily possible to get to the stage where it becomes second nature and you're hardly having to think about it, especially using SPD MTB type pedals and cleats.


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## starhawk (17 Sep 2011)

classic33 said:


> Following on from sheffield tigers suggestion, there is this bit if you feel like having a go yourself
> 
> http://en.wikipedia....ki/Retro-Direct



Interesting thing but in the end you just have a bicycle with two gears forward


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## starhawk (17 Sep 2011)

Came up with a solution: As I have a electric-assisted trike, buy another motor wheel mount it "backwards" on one of the front positions and a switch to turn it on, but I heard someone say that the motor wheel doesn't like going backwards and I don't think the problem is worth it ( expensive wheel and tricky installation)


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## classic33 (17 Sep 2011)

starhawk said:


> Interesting thing but in the end you just have a bicycle with two gears forward



"_Usually the second sprocket is larger, which provides the cyclist a lower gear for climbing steep inclines simply by pedaling backwards. While most historical examples of retro-direct bicycles used the reverse gear for climbing, several modern retro-direct riders prefer climbing while pedaling forward and engaging the higher, cruising gear while pedaling backwards."

_Provided the freewheel is facing the opposite way to normal or by using a fixed, it will give a reverse gear.


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## andrew_s (17 Sep 2011)

classic33 said:


> _
> _Provided the freewheel is facing the opposite way to normal or by using a fixed, it will give a reverse gear.


A reverse freewheel will prevent any progress at all, as will fixed. 
When being pedalled either way, the non-driving sprocket is freewheeling in the regular direction to return the chain to the chainring.

A retrodirect on Paris-Brest-Paris 2007 (1913 Hirondelle)


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