# Saddle/Handlebar drop..



## Chescadence (26 Nov 2012)

Hi Guys,

I've read much about saddle/handlebar drop and the aerodynamic advantage it may give you to have a large drop of may 15cm+ from the top of the saddle to the top of the handlebars.

For me, it feels more comfortable to have a drop of around 5/6cm. This gives me the choice of being fairly upright, with a 5cm/6cm drop and be nice, comfortable an relaxed. Or go into the drops, where the saddle to drop distance of around 20cm for a more aerodynamic position for faster sections or if it's windy. Should I be attempting to get a bigger drop, it just doesn't feel right.

Does anyone else ride a similar set up, do you find aerodynamic problems?

C


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## MacB (26 Nov 2012)

Very much a personal thing influenced by what you want to achieve and your own fitness and flexibility levels. If you're trying to maximise speed then look to the most aero setup your body can cope with otherwise prioritise comfort. As you get fitter you can get more aero.

Unless it's really windy I don't find the aero drag kicks in much until you're going over 20mph and I don't do that much, have no desire to race and enjoy pootling....so my fit is comfort first and long ride comfort not just what I can cope with for an hour or so.

It's also worth noting that the further you bend then the further back your bum, and so saddle, will want to be. If I had my saddle set for bars that were 5cm below saddle height then wanted to lower those bars by a further 10cm, I'd expect to want to move the saddle back a bit. If you think of your bike fit as being a triangle with 3 variable points that pivot around the bottom bracket, so your feet, bum and hands. You can then see that if you alter the position of any of the points of the triangle it has a knock on effect.


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## HLaB (27 Nov 2012)

9.7cm is the optimum for me according to a bike fit; can't really fault it but if it wasn't comfortable, I'd change it. I think comfort especially over long distances is more important for me.


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## Neil1000 (27 Nov 2012)

The handlebar to saddle drop on my bike (57cm Triban) is 8cm. I could increase this slightly by lowering the handle bars, but for me the 8cm feels comfortable.


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## simmi (27 Nov 2012)

I spend 99% of my time on the hoods, my lower back aches ever after a short decent on the drops
Just a result of being older and less flexible I guess.
Perhaps I need to go the other way and put a bigger spacer under my bars or maybe just give it time?


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## black'n'yellow (27 Nov 2012)

in principle, riding on the drops should give you a 'flat' back position (give or take a degree or two). Flexibility comes into it, as does your 'frontage' (putting it politely). Either way, go for whatever position is most comfortable - there's no rule.


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## simmi (27 Nov 2012)

> 'frontage'


 

Nice term will have to remember, more politically correct than "beer belly"


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## cyberknight (27 Nov 2012)

You have to find the best compromise for you between comfort and aero, sounds like you already have.if you try to get to aero and are uncomfortable you can actually make it worse as your not in your optimal position your power can drop.
This site has something useful about body angle..
http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm
The three styles of fit work with the sometimes complementary and sometimes competing objectives of comfort, speed, efficiency, and power. Creating a great fit involves creating priorities among these objectives and knowing yourself. All bikes should fit comfortably, but this priority can be weighed against other objectives. Every choice we make about fit and the bike we choose (frame, fork, model, material, size, parts, etc.) has consequences for our cycling experience. We can explain either by e-mail or telephone how different choices will change your experience and what the advantages and relative compromises will likely be.
For example, the more aerodynamic and "aggressive" Competitive Fit emphasizes speed and efficiency but favors those who can adjust to positions that others will find difficult to maintain over long days in the saddle. In other words, the Competitive Fit may for some become uncomfortable over longer distances or it may not suit those for whom the priority of greater comfort actually increases speed. The slightly more relaxed Eddy Fit adds comfort but compromises some aerodynamic and power efficiency in order to gain endurance and ease. The exceptionally comfortable French Fit understands speed as a feature of comfort and puts power and efficiency in terms of longer endurance goals.
Each of the three styles of fit can be achieved on the same model bicycle, though perhaps not the same size or parts set up. Knowing how you want to ride will help determine what you want to ride.
*1. The Competitive Fit.*
It's called the Competitive Fit because it's our signature fit. We've found that this is the look and the feel that most of our customers expect out of their new bike. This is the most "aggressive" fit and suits those with an interest in racing, fast club riding, as well as those with a greater measure of body flexibility to work within the racer's comfort zones. Most modern road bikes, like the majority we offer at Competitive Cyclist, are usually pictured in sales catalogues with the Competitive Fit. But this doesn't mean that you should ride a bike that looks or fits like this.
Wanna look like a pro? This is the fit. It features a low, aerodynamic bar position that places slightly more weight on the hands than on the pedals and saddle, a close knee to pedal spindle ratio that emphasizes power and efficiency, and it puts the rider low in the handlebar drops. Typically the frame chosen will be the smallest that is appropriate. In fact, since the heyday of mountain bikes in the 1990s and more recent studies of professionals looking for an aerodynamic advantage, the Competitive Fit has become most bike shop's conventional wisdom.
After all, who doesn't want to look and ride like a pro? This fit is easy to sell but may not work for you since it actually best suits those who are willing to accept its clear emphasis on speed over comfort. For most of us, the pure Competitive Fit is too extreme even if it is still viable for young riders and racers, for those who love shorter, faster rides, and for those who just find this comfortable. Expect to be rather low even on the tops of the bars where you will spend the majority of your cruising time on the brake hoods, expect too to be lifting your neck slightly to see ahead of you with a rather "short and deep" reach into the bars as you push back on the saddle to stretch out.
The Competitive Fit creates a more compact body position with the chest low and the back as flat as is necessary to get down into the drops. The saddle to handlebar drop is sometimes as much 10cm or more.
*2. The Eddy Fit.*
Lots of folks find the Competitive Fit to be ideal. But for those who find its aerodynamic emphasis to be overly aggressive and uncomfortable, the Eddy Fit is almost certain to be ideal for you. It's a position that reminds us of the way Eddy Merckx looked on his bike in the early 1970s, and it dates from well before Eddy's time and continued in the pro peloton well into the 1980s.
There is nothing "dated" about this style of riding. We all know that Eddy, Bernard, and Guiseppe were all very, very fast riders! Bike design has not, in fact, changed that radically since their time---only the look, the fashion, and the style of riding. The Eddy Fit is simply no longer the "fashion" among pros who keep pressing the envelope of comfort to create more efficiency and power.
The Eddy Fit emphasizes less saddle to bar drop. You will notice less exposed seat post on traditional frames and a lower saddle to bar ratio on all fits, including compact designs. Typically it requires a size up of about 2-3cm in frame size from what is today usually offered by in current aero professional look of today. But make no mistake about it, this fit will get you down the road with speed, efficiency, and power.
A few differences from the Competitive Fit in addition to a taller front end and less saddle/bar drop is a less craned neck and easier forward-looking position, slightly less weight on the hands and more on the saddle and pedals, and a knee position that usually moves a bit behind the spindle (rather than a knee-over-the-spindle position, thus adding a bit of power). Bikes set up for the Eddy Fit change their look only subtly in comparison to the Competitive Fit though the results are dramatic in terms of greater comfort. This fit is easier on the neck and shoulders but no less suited for racing or fast solo or club riding.
We adjust this fit by "sizing up" the frame and adjusting the stem lengths to create proper balance, proportion, and to maximize the frame's potential. This position lets you into the drops with less stress on the neck and back and so encourages you to go low into the bars for longer periods. The Eddy Fit typically features a saddle/bar drop of only a few centimeters.
*3. The French Fit.*
This fit is so named because of its legacy in the traditions of endurance road riding such as brevet rides and randonneuring. However, the French Fit isn't merely about touring, riding long, or even sitting more upright. It is about getting the most out of a bike that fits larger and provides much more comfort to the neck, back, and saddle position.
While the Competitive Fit generally puts you on the smallest appropriate frame and the Eddy Fit sizes up a bit or raises the bars, the French Fit puts you on the largest appropriate frame. While this bucks some current conventional wisdom - and is, in fact, the least commonly used position of the three we espouse - it is still the position advocated by some of cycling's wisest and most experienced designers, who also happened to be riders who like to go fast and far with an ideal amount of comfort.
This fit features a taller front end (with a larger frame and/or head tube extension and stem), handlebar to saddle drops that are much closer to level, and favors riders who are looking to ease stress on the neck and back, ride as long and as far as they like, and are not concerned with the looking like an aggressive professional. In comparison to the Eddy Fit, the rider has even more weight rearward and a slightly more upright position such that "hands in the drops position" is close to the Competitive Fit's "hands on the hoods position." Some may say that this was not how modern race bikes were "meant" to fit but we have learned that the French Fit's size up tradition works great on the most modern bikes.
By increasing the frame size we raise the bars without radical riser stems and still create balance and proportion with respect to the important knee-to-pedal dynamic. It is important to remember that as frames get larger the top tube effectively shortens. This means that the longer top tube on a larger frame is appropriate because as the bars come "up" and the ratio of saddle to bar drop lessens, the rider achieves a "reach" from the saddle to the handlebars that is just right!

We recommend this fit for riders who really want to be comfortable and fast over longer distances. Please note that the French Fit disregards all emphasis on stand over height (standing with the bike between your legs and your shoes flat on the ground) because the French Fit school believes that this measurement has little actual value regarding fit. An ideal compromise for those who can't shed their concern regarding stand over height is the choice of a "sized up" compact design to achieve a higher relative handlebar position.
Nevertheless, a French Fit can work with traditional, non-sloping frames as well. As an example, a person who might ride a 55cm or 56cm frame to achieve the Competitive Fit, might ride as much as a 59cm or 60cm in the French Fit. While bikes in the French Fit are not the racer's fashion they tend to look elegant, well proportioned, and ride like a dream.
Our Three Styles of Fit are dynamic and flexible programs that are molded to suit your needs and expectations. Elements of one style can be worked into another precisely because there is more than one perfect fit for everyone.
Our promise is to listen carefully to you, work closely with you to provide the confidence and expertise you should expect from a professional bicycle shop, and create an outcome that exceeds your expectations---we want you to have a bike that rides even better than you had dreamt it would. We are happy to discuss our fit philosophy and work out the specifics and details with you.
Buying a great bike starts with great products---and we are committed to brands that have long proven their value and quality. But having the right bike also means buying the one that best suits your riding goals. We work with people using all the resources of our experience, not just fixed formulas or dogmatic notions. If you know what works for you, we are happy to oblige. If you seek our professional advice, we are here to help.
Our aim is to offer you the competitive prices that you deserve, the personal touch of a local bike shop, and the experience of bicycle professionals who are committed to your satisfaction.


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## mrandmrspoves (27 Nov 2012)

......Then there's the "unfit" - almost upright because one cannot squeeze all of ones gut out of the way 
This used to be my preferred (only option) style - but after much perseverance am no longer limited by a large gut - now I'm only limited by the fact that I cannot put any weight on my gammy shoulders.......
Also worth mentioning that with many modern brake/bar set ups there is the option of hands onto hoods of brake and arms dropped to horizontal position resting on top of bars - which gives a similar position to using an aero bar. I cycled on my Tiagra equipped CB for over a year before recognising this position as a possibility.


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## SpokeyDokey (27 Nov 2012)

Newbie after long lapse - 56 yrs old; fairly fit although not bike fit.

Just measured mine at 6.5cm - CX bike so shorter top tube as well.

I like mine exactly how it is. On the bars is nice and 'pootley' and on the hoods feels stretched out enough for me. I have tried the drops a couple of times but tbh I wondered of what use they are to me apart from peddling into a strong headwind. I probably would've been just as happy with some straight bars and some bar ends.

If your bike feels good to you then that's all that matters - leave the mega-drops and stretched out TT's to the 6' something 10 stone whippets who can contort like a pipe cleaner.


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## Cyclist33 (27 Nov 2012)

Whatever works for the individual.



cyberknight said:


> You have to find the best compromise for you between comfort and aero, sounds like you already have.if you try to get to aero and are uncomfortable you can actually make it worse as your not in your optimal position your power can drop.
> This site has something useful about body angle..
> http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm
> The three styles of fit work with the sometimes complementary and sometimes competing objectives of comfort, speed, efficiency, and power. Creating a great fit involves creating priorities among these objectives and knowing yourself. All bikes should fit comfortably, but this priority can be weighed against other objectives. Every choice we make about fit and the bike we choose (frame, fork, model, material, size, parts, etc.) has consequences for our cycling experience. We can explain either by e-mail or telephone how different choices will change your experience and what the advantages and relative compromises will likely be.
> ...


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## Chescadence (27 Nov 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. My bike is definitely more of the "eddy fit", feels comfortable, not too aggressive but aggressive enough in the drops.

If it's not broken don't fix it I guess?


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