# Pedestrians stepping backwards



## MichaelW2 (24 Aug 2017)

One aspect of the recent much publicised pedestrian death, and very possibly the previous one several years ago is the direction of travel of the pedestrian. It seems to be a natural reaction when under stress to retreat back to the safety if the curb by stepping back, into the previously empty space thstthe cyclist is aiming for.
You can see it on many helmet cam videos.
We should build this behaviour into our reaction to pedestrians stepping out. I we squeeze in between pedestrian and curb to avoid hitting the ped, dont be surprised to find them stepping back into your path.


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## Drago (24 Aug 2017)

We all know pedestrians can do the damndest things. All road users should adjust their speed, positioning and road behaviour when pedestrians are about in the expectation that they will continue to do the damndest things.


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## srw (24 Aug 2017)

If you're squeezing then you're going too fast. Slow down and go around with room to spare.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (24 Aug 2017)

The world is full of unpredictable actions.
Most of my experience these days is Trans Pennine Trail. If you say you're going left or right most people round here will split to both sides, or step to the side you say you're passing on.
I've found its best to just say excuse me and wait.
I've no reason to hurry and have the patience but strava chasers get themselves in real messes.


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## brucers (24 Aug 2017)

It would help if everyone stuck to a general principle of keep to the left.


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## snorri (24 Aug 2017)

brucers said:


> It would help if everyone stuck to a general principle of keep to the left.


Cyclists to the left and pedestrians to the right, please!.


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## DaveReading (24 Aug 2017)

MichaelW2 said:


> One aspect of the recent much publicised pedestrian death, and very possibly the previous one several years ago is the direction of travel of the pedestrian. It seems to be a natural reaction when under stress to retreat back to the safety if the curb by stepping back, into the previously empty space thstthe cyclist is aiming for.
> You can see it on many helmet cam videos.
> We should build this behaviour into our reaction to pedestrians stepping out. I we squeeze in between pedestrian and curb to avoid hitting the ped, dont be surprised to find them stepping back into your path.



That happened to me a couple of months ago. A pedestrian started to cross in front of me just as the lights were changing from red to green. I let her pass in front of me, then moved off, at which point she decided she wasn't going to risk tangling with the car in the outside lane and stepped back right in front of me.

Even though I was probably only doing about 3 mph at that point, she went down when I hit her, though happily didn't do any damage to herself in the process.

But I was lucky - as Charlie Alliston found out, it's not the collision with the bike that kills you, it's your head hitting the ground on the way down.

Lesson learned.


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## brucers (24 Aug 2017)

snorri said:


> Cyclists to the left and pedestrians to the right, please!.



If you're on a shared path that does not work because of people coming in opposite direction! There is no perfect answer though.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2017)

brucers said:


> If you're on a shared path that does not work because of people coming in opposite direction! There is no perfect answer though.


Get off the path, onto the road.


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## glasgowcyclist (24 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> Get off the path, onto the road.



Not all shared paths are at a roadside!


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## MiK1138 (24 Aug 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Not all shared paths are at a roadside!


must remember to over inflate my tyres next time i'm on the canal path


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## brucers (24 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> Get off the path, onto the road.



You're not an off roader then!


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## Drago (24 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> My local park used to have a dotted white line down the centre of the path with painted signs for bikes on one side and pedestrians the other. Everyone ignored it. It's gone now.



Milton Keynes tried a similar scheme, albeit without the paint. They came up with the "Redway Code", which sternly advised cyclists to cycle on the left, and pedestrians to walk in the right.

All well and good, until you meet someone coming in the opposite direction. Sufficeth to say that by lunchtime on the day of publication it was being comprehensively ignored.


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## classic33 (24 Aug 2017)

brucers said:


> You're not an off roader then!


I'm not someone who'll ride a road vehicle on a foot path.


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## brucers (24 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> I'm not someone who'll ride a road vehicle on a foot path.


I said shared path not foot path.


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## User6179 (24 Aug 2017)

brucers said:


> It would help if everyone stuck to a general principle of keep to the left.



On the road near pedestrians and with no traffic behind or keeping up with the traffic I go as far right as possible to the centre of the road so I am away from the pavement as far as possible.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2017)

brucers said:


> If you're on a shared path that does not work because of people coming in opposite direction! There is no perfect answer though.


Ride on the left / walk on the right (except at blind bends) is still the best policy because then different modes coming in opposite directions can see each other and usually figure it out.



Dogtrousers said:


> My local park used to have a dotted white line down the centre of the path with painted signs for bikes on one side and pedestrians the other. Everyone ignored it. It's gone now.


Yeah, there was similar near me. It was removed partly because it uglied up a listed landscape and partly because it was causing conflict at a junction, mainly walker-walker and cycle-cycle because the peak flows occurred at different times dictated by the different speeds that people travelled away from the nearest road and rail crossings - first there would be a surge in cycle traffic, then a surge in walkers. The narrowest arm is still marked as split (cycles by the carriageway, walkers by the fence) but it's routinely ignored except at the junction end.



Drago said:


> Milton Keynes tried a similar scheme, albeit without the paint. They came up with the "Redway Code", which sternly advised cyclists to cycle on the left, and pedestrians to walk in the right.
> 
> All well and good, until you meet someone coming in the opposite direction. Sufficeth to say that by lunchtime on the day of publication it was being comprehensively ignored.


I think that was printed on the back of the Redway maps, so it wasn't visible on any maps posted on noticeboards and was seldom looked at by anyone using the map (usually folded into the top of a bar bag) unless it caught their eye as it was refolded. I doubt more than a handful of Redway users even knew it existed and even fewer could tell you any of its points. I may even have a copy on an old map in a box of old MK stuff here somewhere.



User said:


> Where shared paths are created from existing footpaths/footways, then pedestrians retain the right to walk on any part of it. It is cyclists who are restricted to any marked area.


Which the Redways weren't, so what's the point of that reply?


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## Drago (24 Aug 2017)

Out of curiosity I checked Milton Keynes carncil website. Once I'd given my fan communist party membership number and been granted admittance, I discovered the Redway Code still exists and is still on their site. The visitor count for that page was 00001.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> Out of curiosity I checked Milton Keynes carncil website. Once I'd given my fan communist party membership number and been granted admittance, I discovered the Redway Code still exists and is still on their site. The visitor count for that page was 00001.


I wonder how it's changed over the years. https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/hi...hub/cycling/advice-and-information/redwaycode just in case anyone thought the Redways were Dutch-style or even as good as the new central London ones... they're sort of just-sub-Danish with more impatient motorists.


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## DaveReading (24 Aug 2017)

User said:


> Where shared paths are created from existing footpaths/footways, then pedestrians retain the right to walk on any part of it. It is cyclists who are restricted to any marked area.



Out of interest, does that also apply to shared paths created from what was previously a road? 

We have a fair number of those around here, including one where, confusingly, the cyclist/pedestrian sides swap over without warning at one point (the painted symbols having almost completely worn away).


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## brucers (24 Aug 2017)

Eddy said:


> On the road near pedestrians and with no t
> raffic behind or keeping up with the traffic I go as far right as possible to the centre of the road so I am away from the pavement as far as possible.


...and avoid rubble strewn gutters!


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## Sixmile (24 Aug 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> The world is full of unpredictable actions.
> Most of my experience these days is *Trans Pennine Trail.* If you say you're going left or right most people round here will split to both sides, or step to the side you say you're passing on.
> I've found its best to just say excuse me and wait.
> I've no reason to hurry and have the patience but strava chasers get themselves in real messes.


 
Excuse me for being off topic but talk to me about this.. how much of it have you done? I'm not familiar with the trail but I'm looking something bigger to do with the family next year. We cycled the North Wales route from Holyhead to Birkenhead this summer but wanting to 'up it a notch' next year.


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## mjr (24 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> When I was younger, trying to remember that you walked on the right when there's no pavement little aide-memoire was that when you're walking you have to be able to see cars coming so you can jump out of the way.


I thought it was so that you could stare the wild motorists down, Crocodile-Dundee-style!


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## Tanis8472 (24 Aug 2017)

snorri said:


> Cyclists to the left and pedestrians to the right






Sorry


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## Origamist (24 Aug 2017)

MichaelW2 said:


> One aspect of the recent much publicised pedestrian death, and very possibly the previous one several years ago is the direction of travel of the pedestrian. It seems to be a natural reaction when under stress to retreat back to the safety if the curb by stepping back, into the previously empty space thstthe cyclist is aiming for.
> You can see it on many helmet cam videos.
> We should build this behaviour into our reaction to pedestrians stepping out. I we squeeze in between pedestrian and curb to avoid hitting the ped, dont be surprised to find them stepping back into your path.



People behave in different ways - some step back, some freeze, some continue to walk forward - in my experience it is usually better to brake than to try and swerve, as this means you have greater control of the outcome.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (24 Aug 2017)

Sixmile said:


> Excuse me for being off topic but talk to me about this.. how much of it have you done? I'm not familiar with the trail but I'm looking something bigger to do with the family next year. We cycled the North Wales route from Holyhead to Birkenhead this summer but wanting to 'up it a notch' next year.



I've created a thread to get some ideas and experiences https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/trans-pennine-trail.222892/


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## Shut Up Legs (24 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> Out of curiosity I checked Milton Keynes carncil website. Once I'd given my fan communist party membership number and been granted admittance, I discovered the Redway Code still exists and is still on their site. The visitor count for that page was 00001.


So now you've doubled the visitor count, so the council can claim the Redway Code is an astounding success!


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## oldwheels (28 Aug 2017)

I live in a tourist area small town. I used to cycle along the Main Street a couple of times at least every day travelling between our two business premises about half a mile each way. This is a normal street with 30 mph speed limit, two way and a pavement on one side. Tourists however regard themselves a being exempt from any common sense road use and treat the area as a pedestrian zone and wander about with no regard for any other traffic. I had a bike at that time with a front brake which squealed loudly. I made no attempt to fix it but had to use it with discretion as quite a few peds had vertical take offs when it was applied within a couple of feet of their backs.


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## burntoutbanger (28 Aug 2017)

A squeaky front brake can do wonders on a town bike.


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## al78 (14 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> Get off the path, onto the road.



The typical useless response on here.

How about people go around with a bit of spatial awareness, instead of wandering around in a dream world oblivious to anything and anyone more than half a meter away.

FFS how difficult is it to *PAY ATTENTION*, whatever mode of transport you are using. I seem to manage it and very rarely have any near misses (not with pedestrians or cyclists anyway).


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## classic33 (14 Sep 2017)

al78 said:


> The typical useless response on here.
> 
> How about people go around with a bit of spatial awareness, instead of wandering around in a dream world oblivious to anything and anyone more than half a meter away.
> 
> FFS how difficult is it to *PAY ATTENTION*, whatever mode of transport you are using. I seem to manage it and very rarely have any near misses (not with pedestrians or cyclists anyway).


It refers to the fact a bicycle is a road vehicle, footpaths by definition are meant for travel using feet.

And of the two, I know which I prefer to use when cycling.


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## User482 (18 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> It refers to the fact a bicycle is a road vehicle, footpaths by definition are meant for travel using feet.
> 
> And of the two, I know which I prefer to use when cycling.


That's true, if all bicycles are road vehicles and all paths are footpaths.


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## Alan O (19 Sep 2017)

I cycle and walk on shared-used paths a lot, and I really don't understand why so many people seem to have so much trouble working out how to use them. Keep your eyes and ears open, give way to those who are slower and/or more vulnerable than you, and always go slow enough to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear ahead - seems to work for me.


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## Drago (19 Sep 2017)

And make sure your bike has the requisite number of brakes and that they work.


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## raleighnut (19 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> And make sure your bike has the requisite number of brakes and that they work.


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## classic33 (19 Sep 2017)

raleighnut said:


>


Can't eat at a time like this.


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