# Lightening the load ....



## Fab Foodie (12 Sep 2016)

I thought I'd start something about reducing weight when touring .... though I'm sure it's been done before, but hey-ho!

In May 2015 I did my first cycle-camp/mini tour since the mid 80s. It was the yacf long Itch camping weeekend. 60 miles from home, lots of helpful people If I cocked-up or forgot anything, a pretty low risk re-entry to holidaying by bike.
Years of various family camping in-between meant I had most of what I needed in terms of bicycle bags, Trangias, sleeping kit etc. and for extra fun decided to take the newly acquired Brompton.
I had 2 large saddlebags that I could fit on the Brompton and packed and re-packed to see what I could squeeze aboard. A new tent was definately on the cards and a Vango Banshee 200 seemed to fit the bill. What's more is I could fit Brommie and all inside. I did need to add a seat-post rack to accommodate tentage however. The resulting load is below:







much to my surprise it worked well! Kit wise It was around 15 kgs from memory. Apart from the Brompton lacking low gearing for lumpy bits it was a super beast of burden and I had a great time!

Cooking by Trangia and Meths, old down bag + Hunka bivvy bag, Gelert inflatable reed bed, clothes, sandles odds and sods.







All was well. Probably carried too much clothing, but a success!

The next opportunity was September and I decided to take the Rourke:






Pretty much the same kit-wise but the Rourke lacking front bags really didn't ride so well. Also in the damp September mornings I was getting cold in the old down bag partly due to the airbed. Also the Trangia was overkill for heating duties. Clothing also needed attention.

Roll on the winter and a bit of thinking....

I missed the May yacf Long Itch trip, but planned for the outer Hebrides in the summer.

This time I decided to lighten the load even though I was going for longer.

I chanced a Bivvy and Tarp with Hostel back-up instead of the tent.
The Trangia was replaced by a pocket-stove, Alpkit Ti Myti mug and Tifoon for eating duties. Esbit fuel taking less weight and space than Meths.
A new Alpkit down bag and 3/4 self inflating mat with an old foam mat replaced the gelert air bed for warmth.
Cycle shoes and sandals were ditched for regular walking shoes and flip-flops
Less cycle-specific clothing and more dual-use kit. Broad rimmed sun-hat hat not cycle caps. The bulky Paramo still came along for foul weather duties.


















I don't have the weights, but with the now 12 speed Brompton with a low range gear set, the Outer Nebrides were easily conquered. The new kit worked well, I was warm, dry and had hot food when I needed it.







So now to Long Itch Sept 2016 .... I decided to go with the Rourke again, but as light as possible. In fact less than 10kg including bags and everything.

Instead of the Bivvy and Tarp I took the Banshee flysheet and poles only. Further trimmed my dual-use clothing, cycle shoes and flip-flops and added a small bar bag for the small useful bits. Paramo left behind for tatty old Altura almost-waterproof.












So nowhere near ultralight yet, not cutting handles off toothbrushes .... but getting there!



So what are your weight/volume learnings?


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## numbnuts (12 Sep 2016)

> So what are your weight/volume learnings?


Take everything, be comfortable and struggle


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## doog (12 Sep 2016)

I got my load down to 15kg for my latest tour..thats tent, cooking stuff the lot in 4 panniers.I keep one of the front panniers for carrying wine and stuff

I guess thats my minimum as I'm still capable of forward motion up most gradients with that ..now I want to buy one of those little fold up chairs that come in at 700g !!

They look ace...not much help to the thread mind.


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## Dave 123 (12 Sep 2016)

So far on the couple of tours we've done we've been too overloaded. One was a week in Holland, the second the Devon coast to coast over 3 days. For the Devon trip we had to put our over large sleeping bags in the front panniers (but nothing else) so we looked like we were going round the world with panniers front and back.

We will buy smaller sleeping bags as and when.

My brother tours solo and tandem. For the tandem tour it's 1 pannier each, but they do credit card tour.

Next year we plan to tour Brittany for a couple of weeks together. Just like you @Fab Foodie , my thoughts are turning to slimming down the load.

Maybe I should start with me!


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## CanucksTraveller (12 Sep 2016)

@Fab Foodie - Could I just say, (as someone that isn't necessarily into touring), your OP is a fantastically interesting read. Some good old fashioned cycling storytelling, real learnings, great pics that raised a smile, and a tiny bit of eccentricity thrown in - (Always amusing somehow to see a Brompton loaded up as per the first pic). _Super_ subject!


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## robing (12 Sep 2016)

When you get back from tour, sort your stuff out in two piles. One - the stuff you used, one the stuff you didn't use and was dead weight. Your next tour will be lighter!


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## Pat "5mph" (12 Sep 2016)

Two panniers, 5kg between the two plus the clothes I'm wearing is my max.
I don't do camping though.


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## slowmotion (12 Sep 2016)

I met some guys from Sheffield a long time ago when we were carrying all our stuff over the mountains of Corsica on the GR20. I had a 28 pound pack with a tent and a ten day supply of freeze-dried food. I had plenty of time to think about ways of reducing the load, but the Sheffield people had it all worked out.

" Cut two and a half inches off your toothbrush handle, mate" They all had, and the rest.

Great thread Fabbers. Thanks.


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## raleighnut (12 Sep 2016)

doog said:


> I got my load down to 15kg for my latest tour..thats tent, cooking stuff the lot in 4 panniers.I keep one of the front panniers for carrying wine and stuff
> 
> I guess thats my minimum as I'm still capable of forward motion up most gradients with that ..now I want to buy one of those little fold up chairs that come in at 700g !!
> 
> They look ace...not much help to the thread mind.



You need one of these camping chair/backrest jobbies


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## hatler (12 Sep 2016)

Balls. This thread has just reminded me that I failed to record all that went into my panniers in August for the Normandy jaunt. Was intending to do the 'two piles' thing when I got home. Dang, dang.


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## Blue Hills (13 Sep 2016)

slowmotion said:


> a ten day supply of freeze-dried food.


Am intrigued. What was this food? Were you anticipating a total lack of shops?


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

numbnuts said:


> Take everything, be comfortable and struggle


Ha!
To an extent that's true, especially regarding comfort. But I guess what I'm saying is that you don't need the kitchen sink if the washing-up bowl will do just as well :-)


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> @Fab Foodie - Could I just say, (as someone that isn't necessarily into touring), your OP is a fantastically interesting read. Some good old fashioned cycling storytelling, real learnings, great pics that raised a smile, and a tiny bit of eccentricity thrown in - (Always amusing somehow to see a Brompton loaded up as per the first pic). _Super_ subject!


Thanks. It's not quite Proust, but I try!


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Dave 123 said:


> Next year we plan to tour Brittany for a couple of weeks together. Just like you @Fab Foodie , my thoughts are turning to slimming down the load.
> 
> Maybe I should start with me!


I have the same on-board load problem :-( Too much post-ride fermented recovery product consumption.....

But to add further thoughts/learnings from the last 18 months (am no expert).
I think food and cooking/eating kit is a good area to start, there's a lot of weight and space savings to be made there. 
Sleeping bags are bulky but not overweighty. Down cuts the bulk but you have to be paranoid about water. 
Again the foam mat is bulky but weighs nothing. A new inflatable like the Alpkit Numo though would remove huge bulk (a future purchase).
Then I think clothing is a real biggy. I was surprised in the O Hebs how little cycle specific gear I really needed. I wasn't racing, I was riding less than 50 miles per day and the Brompton is comfy enough in civvies. I have just bought some padded Merino undershorts, but actually I found a pair of light Lycra pad-less jogging shorts to be more than adequate. Pads really add to bulk Again light jogging leggings for smoozing around camp/hostel in the evening. 
Pack clothes and any other soft stuff in compression sacks - again worth their weight in gold.
A mesh bag is great for keeping stuff segregated or for hanging on the outside of the bike for wet stuff etc.
I never wore socks.
I barely wore underpants
Merino is the dogs doo-dah's because it generally looks good enough for casual wear and can be worn again and again without getting smelly
Decent Base layers however are great especially if they can be worn alone as a top.
Never compromise on your main waterproof outer. whatever the bulk or weight
Shoes - heavy and bulky ....
Use shampoo/moisturiser stolen from hotels or little bottle OR buy the multi-use stuff from outdoor stores you can use for body, clothes and dishes. To smell fab, add a few drops of essential oil such as Bergamont or Patchouli to sunscreen or moisturiser
Dry-bags are ace. Multitude of uses (my red one doubles as my pillow and is my in-ride emergency layer store - readilly accessed.
Dry emergency rations - carry some!

That's all I can think of now.


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Am intrigued. What was this food? Were you anticipating a total lack of shops?


I'll let @slowmotion answer that specifically but ....
In the O Hebs, food shops are very few and far between, if you don't carry 24hrs emergency food ration you could be in for a surprise hungry night, especially around Sunday. On my 60 mile route to Long Itch this weekend I carried just a few dextrasol tabs thinking that there would be loads of village shops and petrol station en-route, but once I'd left the environs of Oxford that was not the case. After 40 miles or so I was needing a re-fuel and by chance found a roadside Kebab-wagon for some chips. There were pubs, but up to that point they would have been a longer stop than a grab and go pork-pie that I craved :-) Carrying a few more snacks to fuel me for the journey would have been sensible.


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

By the way, there are some good bargains and great kit in the Alpkit sale ... my fave online retailer.

https://www.alpkit.com/

By the way .... the site always runs a bit slow.


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## Dave 123 (13 Sep 2016)

We have mesh zipped bags to compartmentalise, they are great. A lot of searching is saved.
I'm happy living like a tramp for a few days. Jo isn't a high maintenance bird but she still takes too much stuff. The more she does it the more refined she'll get.

But hair straighteners, curlers and a hair dryer....are overkill. Then there is her stuff.

I've been an alpkit fan for years.


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Dave 123 said:


> We have mesh zipped bags to compartmentalise, they are great. A lot of searching is saved.
> I'm happy living like a tramp for a few days. Jo isn't a high maintenance bird but she still takes too much stuff. The more she does it the more refined she'll get.
> 
> But hair straighteners, curlers and a hair dryer....are overkill. Then there is her stuff.
> ...




A pal of mine laid down the law early in their relationship. He said he was happy for his partner to take whatever she wanted on holiday as long as she carried it ....


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## Dave 123 (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> A pal of mine laid down the law early in their relationship. He said he was happy for his partner to take whatever she wanted on holiday as long as she carried it ....




That won't work as she takes me on holiday!


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## hatler (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> A pal of mine laid down the law early in their relationship. He said he was happy for his partner to take whatever she wanted on holiday as long as she carried it ....


That's defo my tactic for the children on next year's tour. We hardly saw mini-hatler this year, he was soooo far ahead.


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## andym (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Sleeping bags are bulky but not overweighty. Down cuts the bulk but you have to be paranoid about water.



Not really. You wouldn't want to get your sleeping bag wet - whether it's down or synthetic. In normal operation down copes fine with condensation and humidity. I definitely like to ensure my down bag is dry - but I would feel the same if it were synthetic. When you wash it you may need to spend a pit of time unpicking any clumps but that's not really a big problem. There are ethical/animal welfare reasons for not using down, but I think its weight-to-warmth ratio, packability give it the edge over synthetic.


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## Blue Hills (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> By the way, there are some good bargains and great kit in the Alpkit sale ... my fave online retailer.
> 
> https://www.alpkit.com/
> 
> By the way .... the site always runs a bit slow.


Any particular recommendations in that sale?


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Any particular recommendations in that sale?


Stuff I've got that works well (actually everything so far works well), but here are some faves in the sale:

Kepler Velo Merino tops - have the LS version
Koulin Trail tights - thin light, useful side pockets, close fit
Yakutian Fleece
Hankering after the mens Arro lightweight waterproof ... but no need right now!
Viper Headtorch is an absolute bargain compared to Petzl offerings. Long beam and close settings are excellent
Ti Pots and Cutlery/Foonage etc all good. The 650 MyTiMug will heat a whole can or beans or similar easily when used as a bain marie with the can
Concertina Shield works really well with my pocket stove


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## fimm (13 Sep 2016)

You should try carrying all your stuff on your back over the top of a bunch of Munros. That will teach you to pack light... 
Actually I have been through a pretty similar learning process to FF. 
Bear in mind that I own warm base layers anyway due to also enjoying being on top of said mountains in the middle of winter (not camping, though). Also cold is more of an issue when you are camping high. So, I carry my warmest winter base layer instead of a second fleece; and I sleep in a mid-weight thermal top and longs set. A fleece hat is always in my rucksack whatever the time of year and wearing a hat in bed is a good thing. Some of that might be useful if you feel the cold when you sleep.

I'm also a fan of Alpkit - I have a down sleeping bag from there, and a headtorch, and some dry bags. (Everything goes in drybags on the hill).
I have a really mini Trangia and my luxury item is a kit that lets me use my Thermarest as a chair.


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## uphillstruggler (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Stuff I've got that works well (actually everything so far works well), but here are some faves in the sale:
> 
> Kepler Velo Merino tops - have the LS version
> Koulin Trail tights - thin light, useful side pockets, close fit
> ...




I can vouch for the mytimug, although thinking about it now, I would have opted for the 900ml version to enable me to warm a can of something as explained by FF and also heat enough water for pasta etc at the same time using one vessel.

I may just buy one anyway as I found my cookset was pretty heavy on my trip to wales, and carrying meths for fuel worried me a little.

ive been researching home made stoves etc on the web, I like the wood gassifyer although im now on my third version but I think this could be the one.

what esbit tablets do you use, mine seem to give off lots of soot.


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

uphillstruggler said:


> I can vouch for the mytimug, although thinking about it now, I would have opted for the 900ml version to enable me to warm a can of something as explained by FF and also heat enough water for pasta etc at the same time using one vessel.
> 
> I may just buy one anyway as I found my cookset was pretty heavy on my trip to wales, and carrying meths for fuel worried me a little.
> 
> ...


I use this stove: http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/bushcraft/RD104.html

With these tabs:






I don't find them to be overly sooty, and it's readily cleaned-off.


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## uphillstruggler (13 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> I use this stove: http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/bushcraft/RD104.html
> 
> With these tabs:
> 
> ...



Cheers, I need to call into the local outdoor shop anyway.

I bought this http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/cookers-and-stoves/RA101.html after reading about it in the touring tips thread. Cracking bit of kit, to be used along side of my trangia copy or just in case I have no fuel.


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## slowmotion (13 Sep 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Am intrigued. What was this food? Were you anticipating a total lack of shops?


There are no shops or hotels to stay at. There are mountain refuges without food or hot water. You carry your food or starve. Cold water comes from the mountain streams. Look up "GR20".

Edit: We were there 27 years ago when the refuges didn't sell food or supplies.


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## Kbrook (13 Sep 2016)

FF

I was planning a tour of the Outer Hebrides a few weeks ago but the forecast was against me so it's postponed probably till next May. Whatever I did I couldn't find an easy way back to Oban. My plan in the end was to return to Tarbert after completing the Hebridean way and return via Skye. Interested in what route you took, for some reason I didn't fancy the return down the west coast from Ullapool.

What did you think if the OH worth a visit? I have read mixed reports.


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## mark c (13 Sep 2016)

Our first camping



tour to the Tour this was our set up. Definitely not light weight and some bad fails in the wet weather department


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Kbrook said:


> FF
> 
> I was planning a tour of the Outer Hebrides a few weeks ago but the forecast was against me so it's postponed probably till next May. Whatever I did I couldn't find an easy way back to Oban. My plan in the end was to return to Tarbert after completing the Hebridean way and return via Skye. Interested in what route you took, for some reason I didn't fancy the return down the west coast from Ullapool.
> 
> What did you think if the OH worth a visit? I have read mixed reports.


I thought the OH was fab, but the forecast is the forecast and so being one of the wildest spots in the UK, weather is something you just have to deal with .... and weather is part of the attraction!
Planning is tricky unless you also look at coaches/rail etc to get back to the start.
I decided that it was worth the drive to Uig on Skye and ferry to Tarbert. Do Harris and Lewis, then back down to Berneray and then to South Uist and Grimsay where I stayed with a friend. I got back to Uig via Lochmaddy.

I would highly recommend this map 'Discover the Western Isles': http://www.stirlingsurveys.co.uk/nationalparks.html
It's invaluable because it marks shops, cafes and cashpoint machine and this is vital information .... this isn't the mainland! Services can be few and far between and nothing on a Sunday.

I also recommend: http://www.gatliff.org.uk/
Cheap, interesting and no-book hostels in interesting locations. There are many fine bunkhouses too.

I went from Tarbert following the main road (no traffic to speak of) and stopped at Ravenspoint Hostel day 1
Then across to Calanish and onwards to Butt of Lewis (wild Camp with the tarp as per the photo above)
Then down and across to Stornaway to stay at Chateau @wicker man 
Then back south to Rheinigedale hostel for a few days R&R
Onwards south again via Tarbert across all of Harris (beautiful) to stay at An Bothan bunhouse in Leverburg - Highly recommended!
Next day ferry to Berneray to the Gatliffe hostel there for several days of mellow lovliness
Finally to my pal on Grimsay and home via Lochmaddy.

That's doing the basics, there are many stunning dead-end roads to wonderful places, amazing scenery, superb beaches, great views and friendly people. The main roads are of good surface and few cars, all very curteous, many roads are single track and well maintained. OK, it can be wet, nearly always windy .... but it keeps the Midge down. Am I going back for more? Hell yes!


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## Kbrook (13 Sep 2016)

FF thanks so much you are very helpful. Those photographs are amazing although I don't know what I'm looking at on that third photo! You have just re convinced me to go as soon as possible which unfortunately will be next year. Planning to go the whole way from Vatersay to Port of Ness,may be in contact before I go if that's ok. Thanks again


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## Fab Foodie (13 Sep 2016)

Kbrook said:


> FF thanks so much you are very helpful. Those photographs are amazing although I don't know what I'm looking at on that third photo! You have just re convinced me to go as soon as possible which unfortunately will be next year. Planning to go the whole way from Vatersay to Port of Ness,may be in contact before I go if that's ok. Thanks again


No Probs!
The third photo is just a pattern on the sand left by the swirling tide on Bernaray .... which is ACE! I took a day to walk around the whole island, fabulously long beaches with no people. Cooked-up lunch in the dunes. Waded across bays. Watched Seals.


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## booze and cake (13 Sep 2016)

Ha I thought it was snow! Lovely pics, total gridlock by the look of it


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## smith4188 (20 Sep 2016)

My load seems to increase with every tour. I used to be able to get up 14% hills. Now I'm pushing if it's 10%. It won't be long before it's the Netherlands or nowhere.


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## Fab Foodie (20 Sep 2016)

smith4188 said:


> My load seems to increase with every tour. I used to be able to get up 14% hills. Now I'm pushing if it's 10%. It won't be long before it's the Netherlands or nowhere.


Is that the load on the bike or ....


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## ianbarton (22 Sep 2016)

I haven't done much bike packing, but have done a lot of backpacking in the mountains. You can see my mountain kit list at: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nCOiqzBfIRWK3CLZL1wJ7Su9Mk1N4XA1XOedaJ0AU4c I would basically take almost the same stuff bike packing. Total weight including food for about 1.5 days, not including water is 10.5kg.

If you sleeping bag is a bit cold, get some Decathlon merino long johns.


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## psmiffy (2 Oct 2016)

What you carry is a straight trade of between want and effort - I have always taken view I spend more time camped than I do cycling - and that I can make the effort to be warm dry and well fed - everybody to their own - The promotion of the weight weeny regime as a virtue is I find peculiar - there is a balance to everything







Yesterday - hiding out from the rain on the Rhone - ive used everything Ive got apart from my longs which will be coming out in the next few weeks and the last of the Tescos toilet paper which im saving for a special occasion


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## psmiffy (2 Oct 2016)

psmiffy said:


> ive used everything Ive got



Actually not quite true - selfie (interesting - autocorrect does selfish stick) stick I bought against my better judgement because people said when they looked at my photos there were never any of me - having got one I have decided that I'm not really a selfie sort of person - in fact I've come to hate selfies - getting trampled by people in tourist hotspots - Strasbourg et.al. - being in the picture being more important than the 1000 year old masterpiece of masonry they are in front of - another box ticked.

However, I have a cunning plan - I think I can adapt the stick thing to be a puller of tent zips that I cannot reach easily


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## Fab Foodie (2 Oct 2016)

psmiffy said:


> What you carry is a straight trade of between want and effort - I have always taken view I spend more time camped than I do cycling - and that I can make the effort to be warm dry and well fed - everybody to their own - The promotion of the weight weeny regime as a virtue is I find peculiar - there is a balance to everything
> 
> 
> View attachment 146279
> ...


To a certain extent I'd agree with your view about the 'weight weenie' approach. That's not particularly what I'm aiming at either. I guess it's more a question of need and how to meet that need in either a less weighty or bulky way.

Contrast my earlier Long Itchington weekend loads to my last:






A significant difference, Plus it was a very rainy weekend unlike previous weekends.
Again, more dual use kit and less cycle specific clothes. Minimised cooking gear but enough for the trip, just used the tent outer plus Bivvi bag, more compact and lighter sleeping bag. No loss in warmth or comfort but a notable reduction in baggage and 'stuff' to manage for no lack in comfort or utility.
In particular the Rourke rides and handles a lot better too making longer journeys loaded more pleasurable and less time spent setting-up and taking down camp.


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## psmiffy (3 Oct 2016)

The management would like to make it clear that no selfie sticks were harmed during the production of this post


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## Fab Foodie (3 Oct 2016)

psmiffy said:


> The management would like to make it clear that no selfie sticks were harmed during the production of this post
> View attachment 146405


That's glamping if you've space for a selfie stick!


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## bigjim (3 Oct 2016)

2 week touring in France, luggage weighs about 5k. Not camping though take stove, spoon, pan and hot water element. That bag on the top is a cheap sleeping bag I had just bought just in case. I could have stuck a tent up there as well I guess.


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## Fab Foodie (4 Oct 2016)

bigjim said:


> 2 week touring in France, luggage weighs about 5k. Not camping though take stove, spoon, pan and hot water element. That bag on the top is a cheap sleeping bag I had just bought just in case. I could have stuck a tent up there as well I guess.



Nice!
What bar bag are you using?


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## bigjim (4 Oct 2016)

> Nice!
> What bar bag are you using?


 Cheap crappy thing fron Lidl. It's done a few trips now but only used because it is very light. I managed to alter it to make it stay somewhat upright without all the heavy hardware the more expensive ones use. That rackbag weighs only 300g and swallows a huge amount of gear. Plus it is flat so makes a good shelf.


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## mmmmartin (4 Oct 2016)

When camping i reckon you can be comfortable during the day or comfortable during the night, and how you compromise on that is up to you. TBH I don't think weight of kit really makes that much difference, given that the bike is about 12k and the rider can be anything up to 100k. A rider of 80k with a 12k bike is 92k, obvs, then two litres of water, some food, is easy to get to nearly 110k all in. Then the camping kit is on top of that so 5k takes the whole shebang to 115k and double that weight of camping kit makes it 120k, there's not a lot of difference really. And you notice it only on the hills, going up, obvs. IMHO this focus on weight is a red herring - better to spend more time planning a flatter or shorter route.


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## psmiffy (7 Oct 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> That's glamping if you've space for a selfie stick!


As stated above - sans selfie stick - what I think is known in the trade as an - arm job






Said stick has been reassigned


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## Kosong (8 Oct 2016)

I look overladen even when going for a few days...it's because i get bloody freezing most nights in the uk regardless of season! 1 back pannier is my XXL 3 season sleeping bag...the opposite pannier is a merino wool long sleeve dress, various layers, socks, and often another sleeping bag to put inside the existing one. Did camp outside of glastonbury a few nights ago and was actually too warm with 2 sleeping bags so am still learning...got a hexi burner which is super light and small, 2 mess tins (1 for boiling water, 1 for food), a plastic mug which usually gets threaded onto one of the panniers by the handle, cutlery...small toiletry bag. Only thing I really, really miss is having a few books and a big towel for showering but they are things that can be sacrified  hoping to do some 2 week plus tours next year so will be refining my gear during the midler spots in winter


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

I usually backpack but had time off work last week so thought I'd try cycle camping. Cycled beeston - Conkers - cannock Chase - Conkers - derby and got train to Newark taking six days.

Have decided what I need to lighten the load, decent bike smaller tent and put the dogs in kennels.


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4514682, member: 259"]Can't the dogs share in the work? Lazy buggers![/QUOTE]
Aww the little one is old sits happy in the basket, there's a rear basket but Bonnie wouldn't go in it wanted to walk so she ended up walking all the way well running mostly. It was hard work and cold too, won't be camping again til next year now


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## raleighnut (17 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> I usually backpack but had time off work last week so thought I'd try cycle camping. Cycled beeston - Conkers - cannock Chase - Conkers - derby and got train to Newark taking six days.
> 
> Have decided what I need to lighten the load, decent bike smaller tent and put the dogs in kennels.
> View attachment 148155
> View attachment 148154


Cloud Trail ?


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## TrishnBonnie (17 Oct 2016)

raleighnut said:


> Cloud Trail ?



Yes part of it but I didn't know it was called that, followed route 6 from beeston to Melbourne then road to Conkers the first day. The traffic free bits were nice. Conkers to derby on the last day. Stayed at camping and caravanning club sites as no need to book and was only £5 a night. Bit cold though never again in October


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## MarquisMatsugae (17 Oct 2016)

I was a bit disappointed that you didn't actually look like Leonard Rossiter.

Nah,I'm with @CanucksTraveller ,it was a good read,and I'm still wondering how you handled the Brommie with all the kit on


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## raleighnut (17 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Yes part of it but I didn't know it was called that, followed route 6 from beeston to Melbourne then road to Conkers the first day. The traffic free bits were nice. Conkers to derby on the last day. Stayed at camping and caravanning club sites as no need to book and was only £5 a night. Bit cold though never again in October
> View attachment 148223
> View attachment 148224


I've ridden the Cloud Trail many times, it's my preferred route up to Derby, I get on it at the start (just the other side of Whitwick)


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## TrishnBonnie (17 Oct 2016)

raleighnut said:


> I've ridden the Cloud Trail many times, it's my preferred route up to Derby, I get on it at the start (just the other side of Whitwick)


Ah right I thought it was nice too I came off at Kings Newton so didn't quite make it to Worthington


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## Crackle (17 Oct 2016)

The latest issue of bicycle traveller has an article about weight and power. The gist is that for a mountainous ride using the same power you add 15 minutes of time to your journey for every 10kg. Read it here

http://www.bicycletraveler.bicyclingaroundtheworld.nl/


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## psmiffy (18 Oct 2016)

Crackle said:


> The latest issue of bicycle traveller has an article about weight and power. The gist is that for a mountainous ride using the same power you add 15 minutes of time to your journey for every 10kg. Read it here
> 
> http://www.bicycletraveler.bicyclingaroundtheworld.nl/


So how many minutes per kilo if it is flat


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## Crackle (19 Oct 2016)

psmiffy said:


> So how many minutes per kilo if it is flat


Insignificant minutes. What was interesting and I wasn't thinking of you here, Smiffy  was the effect of aerodynamics. A bulky pannier setup can add as much time again as extra weight. I haven't read the full results yet but bikepacking is by far the most efficient. Still, you can console yourself that you're as aerodynamic going backwards as forwards.


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## Crackle (19 Oct 2016)

Here's the aerodynamics link

http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-d...bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/


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## Fab Foodie (19 Oct 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> I was a bit disappointed that you didn't actually look like Leonard Rossiter.
> 
> Nah,I'm with @CanucksTraveller ,it was a good read,and I'm still wondering how you handled the Brommie with all the kit on


Actually, the Brommie handles really well when loaded as long as the heavy stuff is over the front wheel, so that's how I pack, lighter and bulkier goes towards the top or in the saddlebag. In many respects with the full load it's more stable than the Rourke (which was never designed for full-on touring). In the Outer Hebrides i was very comfortable flying down the big hills in the rain on the Brompton, something I'd have never done on the Rourke.
The main issue with the Brompton is small wheels on rough roads where it can be a bit vibey after a while. But as an all-rounder she's fab!
Gonna treat her to a rear-rack maybe...


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## Fab Foodie (19 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Yes part of it but I didn't know it was called that, followed route 6 from beeston to Melbourne then road to Conkers the first day. The traffic free bits were nice. Conkers to derby on the last day. Stayed at camping and caravanning club sites as no need to book and was only £5 a night. Bit cold though never again in October
> View attachment 148223
> View attachment 148224


You know what's brilliant about this (I think you should do a proper write-up for Shaun's 'Cycling Junkies' site) is that it shows that you don't need to spend a fortune on special bikes to enjoy a bit of cycle-touring, just work with whatever you have and adventure can be found right around the corner.

QED

Chapeau @TrishnBonnie


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## psmiffy (19 Oct 2016)

Crackle said:


> Here's the aerodynamics link
> 
> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-d...bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/


Yup - it doesn't take much of a breeze to make things uncomfortable - biggest obstacle by far is the g


Crackle said:


> Insignificant minutes. What was interesting and I wasn't thinking of you here, Smiffy  was the effect of aerodynamics. A bulky pannier setup can add as much time again as extra weight. I haven't read the full results yet but bikepacking is by far the most efficient. Still, you can console yourself that you're as aerodynamic going backwards as forwards.


Yup - doesn't take much of a breeze in front to make things in comfortable - however once you have panniers the next biggest problem is the ugly protrusion above the handlebars


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## TrishnBonnie (19 Oct 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> You know what's brilliant about this (I think you should do a proper write-up for Shaun's 'Cycling Junkies' site) is that it shows that you don't need to spend a fortune on special bikes to enjoy a bit of cycle-touring, just work with whatever you have and adventure can be found right around the corner.
> 
> QED
> 
> Chapeau @TrishnBonnie


Thank you Next time though I won't have the dogs with me unless I get a proper dog trailer for Bonnie. Trouble is I've got an old kiddie trailer for her but I struggle at barriers on Sustrans routes and they're not allowed on trains so it's limiting.

The bike I took would have been fine otherwise but I am thinking what bike can I get for next year, also I dumped my tent at the last campsite to save weight so I'll replace it with one that's lighter and packs smaller.

It is possible to use any bike but then use the experience to make things easier and more comfortable next time


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## Fab Foodie (19 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Thank you Next time though I won't have the dogs with me unless I get a proper dog trailer for Bonnie. Trouble is I've got an old kiddie trailer for her but I struggle at barriers on Sustrans routes and they're not allowed on trains so it's limiting.
> 
> The bike I took would have been fine otherwise but I am thinking what bike can I get for next year, also I dumped my tent at the last campsite to save weight so I'll replace it with one that's lighter and packs smaller.
> 
> It is possible to use any bike but then use the experience to make things easier and more comfortable next time


I guess that's why I started this thread, to share experience for those relatively new to a bit of touring.
If I was going heavy-weight and long trips I'd convert my old 80s 531 MTB for the task, it wouldn't take much and she's be perfect for the task.


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## MarquisMatsugae (19 Oct 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> I guess that's why I started this thread, to share experience for those relatively new to a bit of touring.
> If I was going heavy-weight and long trips I'd convert my old 80s 531 MTB for the task, it wouldn't take much and she's be perfect for the task.



An old 80's MTB you say? 
Tell me more.


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## Fab Foodie (19 Oct 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> An old 80's MTB you say?
> Tell me more.


531 mtb tubing, Saracen built for FW Evans, Black. New drive train stem and bars, but original wheels, brakes, etc. Full service history ;-)
Just can't find a photo of it!


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## psmiffy (7 Nov 2016)




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## campagman (7 Nov 2016)

I use an old Raleigh 531 MTB for camping trips. The only original bits are the frame and h/bar stem.


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## raleighnut (7 Nov 2016)

campagman said:


> I use an old Raleigh 531 MTB for camping trips. The only original bits are the frame and h/bar stem.


I've got a few bikes like that.


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## reppans (19 Nov 2016)

I got into ultra-light backpacking and Brommies this year, and the combination has rekindled my interest in short-touring. For me, the light weight and more importantly - compactness - is much more about where I can go, and what I can do _when I'm not riding._ I just love the versatility of this rig. (Unfortunately, I've had bike and gear stolen before, so locking up puts a big damper on things for me.)






I stay below ~20lbs, incl. ~5lbs of food/water, in the single T-Bag. My core camping gear is ~5lbs/10L of that, multi-tasking, good to ~40F, and very comfortable to me - CLICKY.

Hope that helps.


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## Fab Foodie (19 Nov 2016)

reppans said:


> I got into ultra-light backpacking and Brommies this year, and the combination has rekindled my interest in short-touring. For me, the light weight and more importantly - compactness - is much more about where I can go, and what I can do _when I'm not riding._ I just love the versatility of this rig. (Unfortunately, I've had bike and gear stolen before, so locking up puts a big damper on things for me.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's the tentage? Looks a nice set-up!


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## reppans (19 Nov 2016)

Thanks... you can see the name in CLICKY link, but it's a SixMoonDesigns Gatewood Cape, along with Serenity Net Tent, Tyvek footprint, Ti stakes, and Pole. All in 31oz and packs into its own pocket (except pole).


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