# New to cyclechat and looking for a step-through e-folder ...



## KnittyNorah (24 Apr 2021)

Hello all, I'm a (former) fairly keen cyclist who's done nothing these past ten years due to ever-increasing sight loss which seemed irreversible to the extent that I sold my beloved, fit-like-a-glove, Islabike. 

Now I'm in my mid-seventies, even shorter than I was ten years ago (under 5ft), but I have nigh-perfect eyesight once more having had miraculous surgery several times in the past year, and have been cleared by my surgeon and optometrist for all normal activities, inc cycling, again! Hurray!
HOWEVER due to my increasing visual impairment, in the past ten years I've lost a lot of fitness, put on a lot of weight, and had a couple of falls on unseen/unexpected steps and kerbs which have exacerbated some old injuries (left knee) and given me a badly-ruptured achilles tendon (fortunately also on the left). I've also moved from a house into a flat with no secure outside storage … 

So an electric step-through folder it has to be. Electric because I may never pedal 'evenly' again, and sometimes I might not be able to pedal much at all on my left side, and a folder because of the storage situation. I'll probably need a crank and/or pedal alteration at least on the left side; I've got a few names for people who do that sort of thing. I want 20" wheels, I'm not the least bit bothered about suspension, one way or the other, and although I don't need or intend to commute, as I don't drive I want to be able to occasionally get it on board a bus, train or taxi without the hassle involved with a non-folder. I may be small but I am sturdy and as long at the 'fold' holds together, I can easily hoik 20-odd kg a short distance! Battery could come out and go into a backpack temporarily if necessary to make the weight a bit ore manageable when folded. I want a battery giving as good a range as possible, or an easy-to-change battery system so I can carry a spare. I'll be doing mostly tarmac riding, with some easy gravel and similar 'off-road' tracks, not going into rough stuff or MTB territory at all! 

My absolute top price limit is £2,000 and I prefer sub-£1500. The whole idea of a cheap(ish) e-bike is to see if I can get my fitness back up, if I still enjoy cycling as much as I always used to, how much I am affected by my ruptured tendon (which will never fully heal, although I'm OK-ish walking on it and even using stairs) and if I actually USE the bike as much as I hope I will. If I do, then after a year I plan to get something 'better'.
I'm aware there will have to be many compromises - weight, ride quality etc etc - and I'm aware that there's a severe shortage/huge demand for bikes at present, so I might well need to compromise on other things too - but I won't/can't compromise on maximum price, foldability, step-through and hub motor with cadence sensor. I will also need the throttle/walk control or whatever the supplier calls it due to the unreliability of half of my own inbuilt propulsion system!

All and any suggestions, recommendations, warnings etc will be welcome. Actually visiting shops to see bikes is ... difficult as I no longer drive ...


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## ebikeerwidnes (24 Apr 2021)

Sorry to mention Halfords - but my wife has a Carrera folder (Cross city-e) and I take it out once every month or so.
I also rode it around Cornwall's hill last year for a few days

It has been great - pretty basic electronics compared to my Bosch and the battery indicator is especially basic - but it works well.
I think the current price is about £999 - so pretty cheap for an ebike.


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## KnittyNorah (24 Apr 2021)

I'm not 'anti' a cheap 'brand' - especially if it's an actual brand I could return to the shop! - as this is really a trial for how well I get on with e-cycling after a lifetime of 'proper' cycling on 'good' bikes and then a long hiatus - but I do need to be able to get on and off the thing easily; at this point in time a step-through is one of my essential requirements. But thanks for the recommendation anyway! At that price and from Halfords I wouldn't have thought to look at it, just a pity it's not a step-through.


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## Pale Rider (24 Apr 2021)

A Woosh Rambletta meets most of your needs.

At one time Woosh were Chinese cheap and nasty, but the latest models look increasingly decent.

They are also helpful people to deal with.

Hatti, the owner, is a self confessed short person so she always tries to have a couple of suitable bikes in her range.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rambletta


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## KnittyNorah (24 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> A Woosh Rambletta meets most of your needs.
> 
> At one time Woosh were Chinese cheap and nasty, but the latest models look increasingly decent.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I've heard good things about the Rambletta; I didn't know the business owner was also an underheight person, though!


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## si_c (25 Apr 2021)

Would a regular step through bike with a conversion kit make sense? You could speak to your LBS and see if they would be willing to do the conversion, and it would mean you would have a larger choice of bikes.

Perhaps the best choice would be an electric brompton - they're doing a fairly large range of bikes now, are highly foldable and storable with a good ecosystem for support.


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## Pale Rider (25 Apr 2021)

An e-Brompton would be the blue chip choice, although I would go for a Brompton Nano.

Much better and more reliable kit than the dreadful factory one, and more options of batteries, set-up, and which bike to plonk it on.

Strange to relate, there's another lady for the OP to speak to on the phone at Nano - Lynda - helpful, just like Hatti at Woosh, but of average height.

Tell her Rob in Sunderland says hello.

https://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

si_c said:


> Would a regular step through bike with a conversion kit make sense? You could speak to your LBS and see if they would be willing to do the conversion, and it would mean you would have a larger choice of bikes.
> 
> Perhaps the best choice would be an electric brompton - they're doing a fairly large range of bikes now, are highly foldable and storable with a good ecosystem for support.



What I eventually go for- if a sub-£1500 e-folder works out for me for a year or so - will _have_ to be a folder, and a conversion of a good quality well-fitting bike will certainly be on the cards at that time if I can't find a decent ready-made (which I would prefer). Finding the bike for the conversion will be yet another battle as it is never easy to find a bike to fit someone my height!

However, at this point I don't even know if, or how well, I'll actually be able to effectively cycle at all, hence a cheaper ready-made option with e-assistance has to take priority. 

A Brompton of any sort really isn't an option - I don't like them at all, and they are _far_ too expensive to use as a mere 'trial', sorry.


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> An e-Brompton would be the blue chip choice, although I would go for a Brompton Nano.
> 
> Much better and more reliable kit than the dreadful factory one, and more options of batteries, set-up, and which bike to plonk it on.
> 
> ...



Bromptons are much too expensive (for me) for a trial - which is what this is - and unfortunately they're not step-through ... I've tried a neighbour's step-over folder for 'manageability' and it's a no-no - very difficult for me to cleanly step over the bar, hence my insistence on step-through at this point. I'm hopeful that after a few months or more of 'light cycling' I _might _be able to manage a bit better, and hence have more choice of bike.


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## Pale Rider (25 Apr 2021)

Another viable option is the Wisper folder.

One of our lady members - @welsh dragon - has one and has had lots of reliable miles out of it.

Not cheap, depending on the spec, but Wispers are nicely made, using a mixture of Chinese and European manufacture.

They have a reputation of being decent to deal with.

You might have to speak to a man this time, David Miall is the owner of Wisper, and you can trust him to be honest and straightforward.

https://wisperbikes.com/shop/e-bikes/folding-ebikes/wisper-806-folding-electric-bike-2020/


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Another viable option is the Wisper folder.
> 
> One of our lady members - @welsh dragon - has one and has had lots of reliable miles out of it.
> 
> ...



Yes, the Wisper do seem good from what I've read! I wonder which model @welsh dragon has? Hopefully she'll see this!


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## sheddy (25 Apr 2021)

Where are you based ? CC's might advise on local bike shops.


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

sheddy said:


> Where are you based ? CC's might advise on local bike shops.


I'm a bit north of Preston, but I don't drive any more - so I have to rely on public transport.


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## welsh dragon (25 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Another viable option is the Wisper folder.
> 
> One of our lady members - @welsh dragon - has one and has had lots of reliable miles out of it.
> 
> ...




Mine is still going strong after nearly 5 years.

As Pale Rider says, David is the man to talk to. He wont try to persuade you to buy. He will give you the facts and let you Decide.


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

welsh dragon said:


> Mine is still going strong after nearly 5 years.
> 
> As Pale Rider says, David is the man to talk to. He wont try to persuade you to buy. He will give you the facts and let you Decide.


Sounds good. Methinks many phone calls this coming week.


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## sheddy (25 Apr 2021)

I'll mention this but with no dealer network and no test rides outside of Cambridge.
https://flit.bike/meet-john-84-and-still-riding-strong-with-his-flit-16/


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## welsh dragon (25 Apr 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Sounds good. Methinks many phone calls this coming week.




Wisper bikes are solid well built bikes. They look good as well. I always have people approach me and ask about it.

And it has me never gone wrong.


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## KnittyNorah (25 Apr 2021)

sheddy said:


> I'll mention this but with no dealer network and no test rides outside of Cambridge.
> https://flit.bike/meet-john-84-and-still-riding-strong-with-his-flit-16/


Good weight for an e-bike! But it's not a step-through …


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## Salad Dodger (26 Apr 2021)

Hi @KnittyNorah

You might like to take a look at the website of Juicy Bikes, who manufacture a whole range of ebikes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Based in (I think) Derbyshire, but have a network of dealers that they sell through.

I have no connection to the company, but am eyeing up one of their bikes as my next ebike....

I hope you find what you are looking for.


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## KnittyNorah (26 Apr 2021)

Salad Dodger said:


> Hi @KnittyNorah
> 
> You might like to take a look at the website of Juicy Bikes, who manufacture a whole range of ebikes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Based in (I think) Derbyshire, but have a network of dealers that they sell through.
> 
> ...


 Actually I emailed them over a week ago with a couple of very simple questions, but have had no response yet, so I'm not inclined to pursue matters with them ... one of the things I'm definitely looking for is a company which is responsive, even if the response is 'Sorry we can't answer your question right now but blah blah blah ...'.


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

Made several phone calls today. Attitudes of the phone-answerers vary _enormously _to the exact same initial query, expressed in the exact same words … wariness and a bit of hesitancy, I can understand. After all there's a total stranger phoning up to ask about their current stock of things costing a grand and more … am I just 'casing the joint'? 
But blatant rudeness and _prying, _ demanding to know my first and last name before I even begin to speak or ask any questions? Not just a 'who am I speaking to please?' but a very peremptory 'Natasha speaking, what is your first and last name?'. Where are we? Soviet-era Russia? I just put the phone down at that, I was so taken aback! I suppose I could phone again and say Minnie Mouse or Elizabeth Windsor. I think I will, just to wind 'Natasha' up, but I'll write my own script first. 
And no, I am not going to make all-day expeditions by public transport just on the off-chance that there _might_ be an ABC bike I can sit on when I get there. But there might not be because they're not sure … And I don't appreciate - having already mentioned my height or lack thereof - being asked 'why would you want to know that?' when I ask the height of the top of the saddle at its lowest level ...
However, I did have some good conversations with different folks, unfortunately none of them particularly local, but who knows, something might work out and a couple of calls were really positive with accurate measurements of different 'bits' promised for tomorrow.


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## Pale Rider (27 Apr 2021)

Name some names.

I would like to think David at Wisper and Hatti or Andy at Woosh treated you nicely, assuming you were able to speak them.

Bike retailers in general don't seem to respond very positively to telephone inquiries.

I've been promised stock information a couple of times, but on both occasions the promised return call didn't materialise.

If you private message me some details, I can give the aforementioned a prod.


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## tribanjules (27 Apr 2021)

Decathlon folding ebike is good - it’s got teenage daughter cycling. Easy to fold and battery pops out easily to charge


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Name some names.
> 
> I would like to think David at Wisper and Hatti or Andy at Woosh treated you nicely, assuming you were able to speak them.
> 
> ...



No, it wasn't either of those! 

The really rude one was a 'big box' shop so in many ways to be expected, but it would've been a useful visit to see if I could manage any of their non-step-in folders (electric and otherwise) and if so, the height of the step-over that I _could _manage. 'Specialist' companies have _in the main_ been helpful, at the very least as helpful as they could be given the current circumstances of low or no stock, and in some cases significantly more than that. 

In addition, of four businesses I emailed over ten days ago (different ones to those I phoned) only two have replied (both very helpful) so the email enquiry success rate is no better than the telephone enquiry method!


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

tribanjules said:


> Decathlon folding ebike is good - it’s got teenage daughter cycling. Easy to fold and battery pops out easily to charge


Is that the Tilt? 
It's a step-over and I'm pretty certain I need a step-through due to leg issues on one side, although I'm willing to compromise IF I can try it and find it works for me. So far I've tried a couple (one e and one non-e) and they don't. 
My nearest Decathlon is at least two, usually three, different buses away, and getting a straight answer from them as to whether they definitely have one that I can try in store, is impossible. When I phoned them the woman who answered was pleasant enough and tried to be helpful but seemed to struggle to understand my points that (a) I wasn't about to make a three-bus journey purely on the chance that it _might_ be there and (b) given my height, or lack thereof, I really DID need to try it OR have very specific measurements of it, not just 'advice' from a sales assistant.


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## tribanjules (27 Apr 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Is that the Tilt?
> It's a step-over and I'm pretty certain I need a step-through due to leg issues on one side, although I'm willing to compromise IF I can try it and find it works for me. So far I've tried a couple (one e and one non-e) and they don't.
> My nearest Decathlon is at least two, usually three, different buses away, and getting a straight answer from them as to whether they definitely have one that I can try in store, is impossible. When I phoned them the woman who answered was pleasant enough and tried to be helpful but seemed to struggle to understand my points that (a) I wasn't about to make a three-bus journey purely on the chance that it _might_ be there and (b) given my height, or lack thereof, I really DID need to try it OR have very specific measurements of it, not just 'advice' from a sales assistant.



https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/electric-assisted-folding-bike-tilt-500/_/R-p-145622


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

tribanjules said:


> https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/electric-assisted-folding-bike-tilt-500/_/R-p-145622


Yep, that's the one. That little arc section of the frame looks like a prime spot for me to catch my foot when it (my foot, not the frame!) goes droopy ...


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## tribanjules (27 Apr 2021)

Go in store and have a play !


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

tribanjules said:


> Go in store and have a play !


I would like to - but given that I no longer drive and the nearest Decathlon is three bus rides away in a different city, I'm not about to go on spec when the woman I spoke to there said she couldn't be sure that it was in stock or that I'd be able to try it …


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## Pale Rider (27 Apr 2021)

How about this one from Cube?

The 20" balloon tyres cure nearly all of the ills of small wheels, and it's much easier to fix a puncture.

It has the excellent Bosch pedal assist system.

No throttle, but in turbo mode you don't have to do a lot more than 'glass pedal' to get the assistance.

Not a folder, although the bars drop and twist.

Looks like the saddle drops very low - as will the bars if you want them to - so it ought to fit.

I have something very similar from German brand AVE.

Excellent bike, very chuckable for an ebike, but also a lot more capable than a 'shopper'.

I've done 80+ mile day rides on mine.

https://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/b...NikpKoAnjgwlxQTRumMkfMvsIjocOWfBoC5GIQAvD_BwE


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> How about this one from Cube?
> 
> Not a folder, although the bars drop and twist.



The one thing I absolutely will not and indeed cannot compromise on is that it must be a folder. That overrides anything else, unfortunately, and it is what it is. 

I'm currently looking at various offerings from ebikes direct, Rutland Cycles and Woosh. Not necessarily in stock, and I can't (currently) get to see/try them either BUT I am being offered really detailed measurements, suggestions for improving fit and so on. There was an offer of a lovely-sounding Wisper (ex-demo IIRC) BUT it had torque sensing and with my ankle/foot issues on one side, I need cadence sensor at least for several months until I find out if constant but non-weight-bearing use improves matters.


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## Pale Rider (27 Apr 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> The one thing I absolutely will not and indeed cannot compromise on is that it must be a folder. That overrides anything else, unfortunately, and it is what it is.
> 
> I'm currently looking at various offerings from ebikes direct, Rutland Cycles and Woosh. Not necessarily in stock, and I can't (currently) get to see/try them either BUT I am being offered really detailed measurements, suggestions for improving fit and so on. There was an offer of a lovely-sounding Wisper (ex-demo IIRC) BUT it had torque sensing and with my ankle/foot issues on one side, I need cadence sensor at least for several months until I find out if constant but non-weight-bearing use improves matters.



Wisper may be able to whack a cadence sensor on their bike because I believe some of their models are switchable between the two.

Have you spoken to Hatti at Woosh?

She's a very skilled people person, so will very likely be able to persuade you to buy one of their bikes


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Wisper may be able to whack a cadence sensor on their bike because I believe some of their models are switchable between the two.
> 
> Have you spoken to Hatti at Woosh?
> 
> She's a very skilled people person, so will very likely be able to persuade you to buy one of their bikes



As I said, I'm in helpful conversation with Woosh, ebikes direct and Rutland. I will make a decision soon! 

I just find it … interesting … that some businesses apparently don't want to, you know, actually _do business. _Or even be encouraging or welcoming to prospective future customers. 

The Wisper bike was being sold by a retailer as an ex-demo at a very good price; I was very happy with the convo I had with the retailer but we agreed it wasn't the best for me.


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## Nibor (27 Apr 2021)

These guys are in Clitheroe they used to be nearer Preston seem to have access to a good range and do test rides etc https://icycleelectric.co.uk/collections/folding-bikes


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## KnittyNorah (27 Apr 2021)

Nibor said:


> These guys are in Clitheroe they used to be nearer Preston seem to have access to a good range and do test rides etc https://icycleelectric.co.uk/collections/folding-bikes



Oh interesting, thanks for that - they haven't come up in any of my searches, and there's a couple of bikes there that I was looking at from othe suppliers _much_ further away! I'll definitely ring them tomorrow!


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## Nibor (28 Apr 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Oh interesting, thanks for that - they haven't come up in any of my searches, and there's a couple of bikes there that I was looking at from othe suppliers _much_ further away! I'll definitely ring them tomorrow!


I am sure they used to be based at Huntleys which is opposite British Aerospace near Salmsbury


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## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

Updating myself on this. I've tried several folding e-bikes in different places over the past few weeks and without exception, all of them are too big. Just … too _big_. And too big in _unchangeable_ ways. 
Except for the Brompton which (a) I can't afford and (b) I found twitchy. Don't like those 16" wheels! 
However, due to all the helpfulness of different bike and e-bike shop owners, I am now fairly convinced that I can manage a non-e-bike, at least for short-distance use, as long as I stay in the flatlands. I can also - with a few contortions! - just about manage a low step-over. 

So now to look for a manageable folding bike - I want something one step up from a chain store BSO, but neither want nor can afford a Brompton.


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## sheddy (19 May 2021)

Have a search on here under the folding bike section


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## Pale Rider (19 May 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Updating myself on this. I've tried several folding e-bikes in different places over the past few weeks and without exception, all of them are too big. Just … too _big_. And too big in _unchangeable_ ways.
> Except for the Brompton which (a) I can't afford and (b) I found twitchy. Don't like those 16" wheels!
> However, due to all the helpfulness of different bike and e-bike shop owners, I am now fairly convinced that I can manage a non-e-bike, at least for short-distance use, as long as I stay in the flatlands. I can also - with a few contortions! - just about manage a low step-over.
> 
> So now to look for a manageable folding bike - I want something one step up from a chain store BSO, but neither want nor can afford a Brompton.



The Raleigh 20" wheel Stowaway is a bit better than a BSO and is fair value at about £400.

However, it may have the same size problems as the electric folders you've tried.

You may have similar problems with most of the other 20" folders.

Which would leave 18" wheels, since you are not keen on 16".

Tern make such a bike, but it's close to Brompton money.

https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/sto...ckg21CTMU9IEPYrPb4vZySU7mDyjX2yIaAqqGEALw_wcB


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## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> The Raleigh 20" wheel Stowaway is a bit better than a BSO and is fair value at about £400.
> 
> However, it may have the same size problems as the electric folders you've tried.
> 
> ...



The issue with the ebikes was really the weight - not so much the weight in and of itself - but the weight _combined with_ the oversizedness. 
To be frank, I've spent all my life wrangling stuff that is 'too big' - sometimes much too big, sometimes only a bit too big - and there are often/usually ways and means around it which don't significantly compromise safety and efficiency but when something is both 'too big for me' _ and _heavy, things can very quickly become unbalanced and thus potentially dangerous - and this is how I felt on all the ebikes I tried. If they had fit me 'properly' the extra weight would have been in a position which was safe for me to handle. A non-e folder won't have that factor of the extra weight coming into play, so I'll be able to handle it much more safely, even if it is 'a bit too big', as I'd done with bikes all my life until I got the Isla bike.


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