# Fitting a Tongsheng tsdz2 on an ice sprint



## voyager (1 Sep 2019)

This is the quick fitting thread on fitting a tsdz2 middi drive to a trike.

Firstly The cables supplied will be the wrong length for a recumbent as they are designed for a D/F frame .
The remote aux switch and speed sensor needed to be cut and extended by 75cm and almost a metre extension added to the power cables.


















The 48v unit is supplied less throttle and brake switches making it an easy fit e-assist with a 12ah battery.
The display mount and battery mount were both built by me as they were a necessary evil . Putting the display in the middle allows us to fold the trike without damage to the display.

regards Emma


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## voyager (1 Sep 2019)

The Aux switch fitted on the handlebars


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## voyager (2 Sep 2019)

l must mention a special thank you to the staff of Woosh Bikes for their assistance, in addition to supplying the kit ( delivered with a red ribbon attached ) the technical team supplied the extension cables needed to extend everything at no extra cost .
The next stage will be to fit a granny ring to increase the gearing to 18 speed and get a lower bottom gear for mountain climbing .
The above upgrade was carried out 1/2 way up a welsh mountain in our converted coal shed ( utility room ) and the assistance given by Woosh was appreciated .


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## voyager (2 Sep 2019)

Woosh and it was here , Having rang Hatti a couple of times and recieved pre purchased support from their tech support , l suggested it should arrive with a red ribbon attached .
The next day it did , impressed by their dispatch time and packing .


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## voyager (17 Oct 2019)

The conversion to a double chainset was relatively easy . 
After the right hand crank is removed , remove the 5 inner Allen head bolts and remove the ring and outer guard.

Because the original ring is heavily dished discard and replace both rings with a pair of 5 hole 110mm bcd rings.
reassemble and adjust the front mech as necessary.

Regards Emma


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## 404 Not Found Anywhere (17 Oct 2019)

Looks really neat!

My Trice QNT is a bit light at the back which means wheelspin on steep loose ascents... does adding the crank drive not accentuate this? Obviously you have the battery to counter this but I would still wonder about wheelspin.


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## voyager (17 Oct 2019)

more power will accentuate the problem Kens trike will usually have panniers on it .
The rear mounted battery adds a little weight to the rear, and his rear tyre has plenty of meat on it.


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## voyager (24 Oct 2019)

Hi folks
Our other ICE trike a vortex , has been fitted with another tongsheng tsdz2, this time a throttle / braked version with a 48v 13ah battery . A rear brake has been fitted along with a double chainset . Finished today and it has been road tested.


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## voyager (24 Oct 2019)

Photos of the installation. The battery mount , display mount and the handlebar stubs were fabricated to suit . The rear brake was added to comply with EAPC regulations . The pump mount was added to the battery mount. A triangular bag will be added behind the seat.
Flag pole made from a fishing rod, practice golf ball and flag.


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## voyager (24 Oct 2019)

Rear view of the trike , what most people will see of it.
Later's Emma


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## neil earley (24 Oct 2019)

Nice neat install ,reviews on how smooth it rides


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## voyager (24 Oct 2019)

Full Road test will follow, The trike was tested by Ken and I up the side of Mynyddygarreg mountain today several times, The setup is smooth and power comes in progressively , the addition of a throttle helps when coasting and a break from pedalling is wanted. In low gear the motor was able to supply all the power needed to climb the mountain . Bigger mountains will follow.
The trike has a 700c rear wheel with 42/36 front and 11-34 rear .


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## voyager (27 Oct 2019)

The vortex trike had it's extended road test today , accompanied by the tongsheng equipped sprint RS, it ended up as a 25 mile round trip down the mountain and via side roads and canal paths down near Burry Port , The canal had flooded it's banks and a division via the road was needed and we returned via Pembrey and the country park. The assisted power was smooth and was tested in all situations. 
It performed better than the shimano steps sprint X and battery life was good , as the trikes battery still had all 4 leds lights on on return. That included a mile and a half climb up the mountain on the way home using 2nd gear on the big ring.


Photos , Burry Port Harbour and one of the bunkers in Pembrey country park (formally a munitions factory in WWll)


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## Bad Machine (30 Oct 2019)

Emma, have you had to fabricate an "anti-rotate" collar for either of the two conversions ? 

e.g. on Bob Hawk's video 3.14minutes in TSDZ2 on ICE Trike

On a DF conversion the TSDZ2 motor is clamped to the chainstays immediately behind the BB, and any lateral movement is restricted by correctly tightening the large axle fixing nut. But have you noticed any rotational movement ?


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## voyager (30 Oct 2019)

We have rotated the unit so it rests against the front mech tube . This makes the unit solid and it cannot rotate.
This was approved by Woosh when we sent them photos . 

Regards Emma


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## 404 Not Found Anywhere (30 Oct 2019)

I must admit now that I’ve got it a bit more refined and tuned in I like my e-assist Kettwiesel... it has turned what was a bit of a sluggard in comparison to my other trike into something more comparable, it means I can still put in a similar effort but feel that I am getting somewhere. I was wondering why you’d gone for mid-drive after all your hub drive experiences, although less refined (and I have a Kalkhoff mid drive bike for comparison) it seems more robust in the long run.

Do you think you could fit a mid drive to a recumbent with 180 degrees of free space around the BB? Tempted to make my BikeE go a bit quicker!


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## voyager (30 Oct 2019)

404 Not Found Anywhere said:


> I must admit now that I’ve got it a bit more refined and tuned in I like my e-assist Kettwiesel... it has turned what was a bit of a sluggard in comparison to my other trike into something more comparable, it means I can still put in a similar effort but feel that I am getting somewhere. I was wondering why you’d gone for mid-drive after all your hub drive experiences, although less refined (and I have a Kalkhoff mid drive bike for comparison) it seems more robust in the long run.
> 
> Do you think you could fit a mid drive to a recumbent with 180 degrees of free space around the BB? Tempted to make my BikeE go a bit quicker!


Wales has bigger hills ( called mountains) 
it seemed a better idea to have the same power through lower gears.

Send a photo to the support team at Woosh and they will advise . Remember the cables will probably need extensions . They will do this as well if necessary.

regards Emma


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## Bad Machine (30 Oct 2019)

404 Not Found Anywhere said:


> Do you think you could fit a mid drive to a recumbent with 180 degrees of free space around the BB? Tempted to make my BikeE go a bit quicker!



Looking at pictures of BIKE-Es, I'd think the TSDZ2 and Bafang couldn't be inserted into the BB shell - am I right to think the Bike-E BB is equidistance between the top and bottom face of the rectangular boom ?

There'd be too little space between the mid-motor's BB axle and the motor casing (image below is TSDZ2 with fat bike adaptor from electrifybike.com)


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## 404 Not Found Anywhere (1 Nov 2019)

Yes, went out and checked. If anything it’s marginally closer to the top of the tube. Looks like a rear wheel motor is the best option.


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## 404 Not Found Anywhere (10 Nov 2019)

quick query regarding the trikes. I see that Woosh recommends a 42T ring on the motor; whilst this gives a reasonable top gear on a 700C wheel, is it not a bit limiting on 20”? With the smaller drive wheel, could you not safely use a bigger chainring?


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## voyager (10 Nov 2019)

We run a 42 to a 9-34 freewheel on 20" wheels . I would think that Woosh are expecting everyone to be running 26/700c wheels . Must ask next time l speak with them.

regards Emma



404 Not Found Anywhere said:


> quick query regarding the trikes. I see that Woosh recommends a 42T ring on the motor; whilst this gives a reasonable top gear on a 700C wheel, is it not a bit limiting on 20”? With the smaller drive wheel, could you not safely use a bigger chainring?


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## bleebo001 (14 Nov 2019)

voyager said:


> View attachment 490426
> 
> 
> View attachment 490427
> ...


I'm just embarking on this with my ICE Adventure. Can you give an idea what materials you used for the display and battery mounts and where sourced. Cheers


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## bleebo001 (14 Nov 2019)

voyager said:


> We run a 42 to a 9-34 freewheel on 20" wheels . I would think that Woosh are expecting everyone to be running 26/700c wheels . Must ask next time l speak with them.
> 
> regards Emma


 Yes, i'll have to ask Wooosh as I am converting an ICE 20inch too....


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## voyager (14 Nov 2019)

Woosh can supply the cables for the cable extensions, we allowed 90 cm for the speed sensor and the throttle and brakes about the same if fitted , the power cable extensions 1m were also supplied by Woosh.
We tidied up the install with cable wrap off eBay.
The battery mount we made used less than 1metre of 25mm x 3mm angle and 20 x 4mm strip from B&Q
heatshrink can also be ordered off eBay.

PM me for more details or a chat.

regards Emma


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## bleebo001 (10 May 2020)

Thanks Emma. I'm considering putting battery on back of seat as it is unused space and fairly central. I can also prob charge in situ. I don't fold the trike. Thoughts?

Woosh see to be pretty insistent on 42 ring max. I suppose the 9-32 on back does up the torque a bit. It is a bit of a shame as I regularly use 48/9 combi on flat. As i'm buying this mainly to get up hills I suppose I could take the risk on assumption that I wouldn't use high gears going up.

Running double ring on front do you have to be careful in any way when you switch rings?

Thanks for the info thus far, very useful.

Cheers, stay safe

Bob


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## Mike_P (10 May 2020)

I'm not quite certain where Woosh get that 42 max from. Certainly other forums indicate people using bigger chainrings and I used a 38-48 combination on my now deceased TSDZ2 - it stopped working after the bike bounced over a depression, I assumed it was the torque sensor but the fitted one would not readily extract without the assistance of a hammer and equally the new one would not fit back in without being killed by a hammer. The only issue I had changing gear was not to do it going up hill and that was normally the rear rather than the front that dechained.


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## voyager (10 May 2020)

bleebo001 said:


> Thanks Emma. I'm considering putting battery on back of seat as it is unused space and fairly central. I can also prob charge in situ. I don't fold the trike. Thoughts?
> 
> Woosh see to be pretty insistent on 42 ring max. I suppose the 9-32 on back does up the torque a bit. It is a bit of a shame as I regularly use 48/9 combi on flat. As i'm buying this mainly to get up hills I suppose I could take the risk on assumption that I wouldn't use high gears going up.
> 
> ...


42 -9 on a 20" wheel is high enough for me , l am a twiddler not a masher , still gives a 90" gear . With the vortex the front mech is still a little temperamental . Still thinking of running a 20" rear triangle and fitting a mesh seat . ( eventually unless l can get another 20/20 sprint RS) 
Our battery on the side works well.


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## Bad Machine (12 May 2020)

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet (project on hold for the moment due to broken collar bone), but my delta trike rebuild has a 48v TSDZ2 throttle version using a 52 tooth ring, rather than the supplied 42.

My rationale: the standard TSDZ2 crank drive has max recommendation of 42T, specced for use with 26"/700 rear wheels. I've run this combo on an upright since August last year, and it has worked really well. No recommendations were given for the rear cassette range - only that nothing more than a 42T should be fitted to the motor.

The 26" wheel on my upright bike is 30% larger than the 20" wheel on my trike - so I could increase the motor ring size by 30% to adjust for smaller wheels. That'd be a 54T ring. The 52T I have sourced is within the limit suggested.

_p.s. 04/08/20 
I can now comment on the 52T swap for the standard 42T. Not good - I'm going back to the stock 42T.
Why ? Whilst the theory may be correct, my first few test rides on the TSDZ2 Kettwiesel (20" rear, with differential) have made me think again:
a) With the chain on the 34T rear, the trike feels sluggish without the motor power on. What will it feel like on a long ride when I've run out of battery ?
b) I'd be concerned about the effect on the motor/controller/drivetrain when inadvertently pressing throttle to max, but on 11T rear sprocket. 
So I've swapped back to the std. chainring, and will keep the 52T should I find a twin ring option._


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## bleebo001 (27 May 2020)

voyager said:


> We have rotated the unit so it rests against the front mech tube . This makes the unit solid and it cannot rotate.
> This was approved by Woosh when we sent them photos .
> 
> Regards Emma



Hi Emma,
I've bitten the bullet and bought a system and amnow awaiting parts various to do the job. Unfortunately Woosh could not help as theyy are out of stock till prob August...but I've had a good steer from others on where to buy. 
One issue which I just wanted to clear up is your emthod for stopping motor rotation as to me it looks like you are not anchoring the motor against its rotation but with it. Can you confirm in this case that I am wrong and are the untis stable and not rotating.

Cheers, Stay Safe.

Bob


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## voyager (27 May 2020)

bleebo001 said:


> Hi Emma,
> I've bitten the bullet and bought a system and amnow awaiting parts various to do the job. Unfortunately Woosh could not help as theyy are out of stock till prob August...but I've had a good steer from others on where to buy.
> One issue which I just wanted to clear up is your emthod for stopping motor rotation as to me it looks like you are not anchoring the motor against its rotation but with it. Can you confirm in this case that I am wrong and are the untis stable and not rotating.
> 
> ...


Think about it Bob . With every action there is a reaction .
The position of the motor against the mech mount STOPS THE ROTATION of the motor when the unit is under power where it is pulling against the chain . Thus STOPPING THE ROTATION .this was approved by Woosh when l sent them the photos and ho to guide.

Regards Emma


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## bleebo001 (27 May 2020)

Duuuurh....thanks Emma......bad day obviously...

Cheers

Bob


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## voyager (27 May 2020)

bleebo001 said:


> Duuuurh....thanks Emma......bad day obviously...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Bob


The standard fitment has a bolt to stop it pulling upwards towards the down tube . So fitting it against it stops it pulling back . Any rotational force forward would be minimal as the chain thrust would still try and pull the unit against the mech post . 

Regards Emma


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## Nigelnightmare (30 May 2020)

bleebo001 said:


> Duuuurh....thanks Emma......bad day obviously...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Bob



We all get them.
What was it "Blonde moment" or "Senior moment"?
Just lately I'm having more of the latter, seeing as I've gone grey now!

Good luck with the fitting and hope you enjoy it afterwards.


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## voyager (30 May 2020)

Another one to do in the next couple of months l think .


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## Pale Rider (25 Oct 2020)

Charli said:


> Hi voyager and people - I'm new here, so sorry if waking threads up after 6 months isn't done
> 
> I'm doing the same ICE trike (Adventure, rear suspension) electrify as described here - 48V !2A Tongsheng TSDZ2 (Thanks Woosh bikes!) Most of it is explained in the voyager pix so I hope you don't mind me copying
> 
> ...



If you ping voyager like this: @voyager, it's more likely she will see your post.


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## Charli (25 Oct 2020)

Ta @Pale Rider. Can you tell me how to delete my post as well?


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## Charli (25 Oct 2020)

Hi @voyager and people - I'm new here, so sorry if waking threads up after 6 months isn't done

I'm doing the same ICE trike (Adventure, rear suspension) electrify as described here - 48V !2A Tongsheng TSDZ2 (Thanks Woosh bikes!) Most of it is explained in the voyager pix so I hope you don't mind me copying

Three things:

Cable extensions - it looks to me like the cable with six internal wires needs the bought extension. There are too many ways of wiring six wires up wrong! The battery to motor cable looks two wire and easy. The other is less essential and might even fit

I was thinking of putting the battery on the back of the seat, low as I can and at a roughly 45 degree angle - it's 3 kilos and it'll balance the bag of tools on the other side, and I'd like it on the suspended bit of the trike. I can also disguise it as another bag (London's a bit like that). Does this seem a bad idea? It'll be a higher up mounting place so I'm a bit worried by stability

The other thing is - how powerful is the motor? I was planning on running a 42T/34T twin chainwheel front to a Shimano alfine 11 hub gear (I don't get on with derailleurs - I'm always in too high a gear starting off and you can change the alfine gear when stopped). The alfine has a single cog on the rear wheel and the internal gears run from 53% to 210% so if that rear cog is 20 teeth it's the equivalent of having a rear cassette of about 38 (20 / 0.53) to 10 (20 / 2.1). I have a 20" rear wheel. That's pretty close to the figures given by voyager - 34-to-11. What stepness a hill can you get up running 34 front to 34 back? I can put a bigger cog on the rear wheel - up to 23 teeth - but I'm not sure the alfine chain tensioner will cope with the diameter of that cog. I'm not worried about the other end of the range; we don't have mountains in East London, but some of the slopes by the locks and on the bridges over the canals can get steep and on a narrow crowded towpath you don't get a run at them

Generally, I'm fairly confident I can do it - the build and the slope

Thanks all - Charli


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## Tongsheng (2 Apr 2021)

Hello, I have a Tongsheng on my Trike. When fitting I realised how easy and it made more sense to have the motor where you have yours. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that's the cables are high and forward facing and more susceptible to water damage over time leading to me making a bracket. I did toy with the idea of taking the plastic plate off and beefing up the waterproofing if only with a decent silicon gel but opted to make a bracket instead utilising some of the existing hardware that came with the kit. This can be done on the ice trikes and similar frame configurations with a simple P bracket. I eventually beefed up the waterproofing because that's what I do. It wont hurt to have a look anyway. I'm of the opinion that all electric cables coming from anywhere it can get wet should always be facing downwards, or be waterproofed to within an inch of its life. I dare say you've already thought of this but still worth a mention. Anyway enjoy your lecky trikes. John


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## DRHysted (2 Apr 2021)

Another TSDZ2 modified tadpole rider here, although mine is a KMX. Did it so my Mum who’s in her 70s can easily take it out, but found it too much fun to use commuting, Turbo mode 1st gear = wheel spin.


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