# My feet hurt...



## Arch (23 May 2010)

Posting this here because of the 'bent connection. Out for a ride on the trike today, and my feet started to hurt - the first time was after 10 miles or so, and then at intervals. There was pain in the ball of my foot, and my big toe, a sort of burning feeling as if I had my toe far too close to a fire. Plus a little bit of pins and needles feeling.

When it got too bad, I pulled over, unclipped and put my feet down for a bit, which helped. I tried to 'ankle' a bit more, thinking it might help the circulation, but I'm not sure it helped.

Now I'm home, the balls of my feet (big toe side) and toes are fine, but I do have a pins and needles feeling in the other side of my feet, the ball of the foot nearer the outside.

I noticed last week out on the upright that I could 'feel' the soles of my shoes a bit (wearing them to ride non-spd pedals with toeclips, as I do when I want the benefit of the stiff sole) - they are Shimano M021Ys according to the label. I wonder if the soles are getting thin - they are a few years old, but haven't had anything like daily use. I've not had this so bad before, just the occasional numb feeling, which I attribute to the feet up the air position.

Would an insole of some kind help? I go away on Friday, so time and also money, for replacement shoes are non-existent. I coped, but it didn't make the last few miles so much fun, and I don't want to annoy my friends by having stop every few miles in the afternoon...


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## Riding in Circles (23 May 2010)

It is because of the high bottom bracket Arch, you're circulation is starting to adjust to the riding position, it will sort itself out.

However bad shoes will give a similar feeling as well, if they have not got good support around the cleats then they can be a pain, I actually changed some new shoes once because the brand I bought caused this.


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## Arch (23 May 2010)

Cheers. I was just wondering because it's not like it's the first time I've ridden it a distance. I also wondered if the heat was contributing, making my feet swell, but my shoes didn't feel tight at all, I could wiggle my toes and everything.

I started to wonder about some of the gel pads you can apparently get to put in stilletoes when your feet hurt from all the dancing...

Seriously, I wonder if some insoles, even just ball-of-the-foot types, might cushion the cleat area a bit.

He's still looking good though - lots of admiring waves and so on.


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## Riding in Circles (23 May 2010)

The heat does have an effect and you don't seem to have to get swollen feet. I had the problem with the high BB when I first went that route but it cured itself after a couple of months, I sometimes had a bit of numb toe after that, then I got some Specialized shoes which gave me agony, in retrospect that sounds like what you have described, a burning feeling, especially in hot weather, I changed to Time shoes and the problem went away.


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## Arch (23 May 2010)

Ah, may be the heat then - like I said, not had trouble with the shoes before, had them about 6 years, but they've only really been used for 'bent riding and the miles I did upright last summer, so they look pretty much good as new....


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## Soltydog (23 May 2010)

Could have been the heat Sue. I had terrible pain / burning sensation in my toes today, in shoes that have given me no problems before. I'm hoping mine was down to the heat


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## CopperBrompton (24 May 2010)

I suffered from this at one point, and it was suggested my shoes were fastened too tightly. I loosened them right off, and that was indeed the solution.


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## jags (24 May 2010)

my god I'm going through the exact same problem,every time i cycle my feet ache big time i did put insoles in but useless .the only thing left for me to try is to take the pedals off my road bike (time pedals) and use my road shoes which have a hard sole.
other than that i will have to see the physio .
could it be a trapped nerve in the back.


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## Fiona N (24 May 2010)

The other thing is, if you're making a bit more of an effort than usual and pushing harder on the pedals, there can be a bit of a tendency to tense the foot almost as though you're trying to go 'on tip toes' to get the extra push. 

I found I got 'hot spots' on my feet - ball of the foot and big toe mainly but spreading across all the forefoot on long rides - when I started to really push up the mileage on the Windcheetah. I found avoiding ankling and keeping the heels 'down' (what would be down on an upright, anyway) helped at first but, as I got more used to the mileage, it went away over a few weeks.

As others have said, the heat probably doesn't help especially as, on a 'bent, you don't get the airflow through the shoes (assuming mesh inserts) that you do on an upright.


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## Arch (24 May 2010)

Thanks all - sounds like the heat then, and something I'll get over.

Over 500 miles through France in two weeks should do it....


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## Riding in Circles (24 May 2010)

Either that or you will be riding on bloodied stumps.


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## jags (24 May 2010)

wish you luck arch but to be honest i don't think the heat has anything to do with your problem .i would hazard a guess and say like myself you have a trapped nerve in your back ,i know the pain I'm going through the heat would have nothing to do with it.
i sure hope you get it sorted .


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## Arch (24 May 2010)

jags said:


> wish you luck arch but to be honest i don't think the heat has anything to do with your problem .i would hazard a guess and say like myself you have a trapped nerve in your back ,i know the pain I'm going through the heat would have nothing to do with it.
> i sure hope you get it sorted .



I dunno - Fiona's experience sounds a lot like mine. I have no pain at all today walking about, and none when cycling upright in my normal trainers, to work.

I hope you get yours sorted anyway.


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## Auntie Helen (25 May 2010)

I used to get appalling cramp in my toes after half an hour or so riding the trike. I'd have to get off and walk around a bit. Then it extended to an hour after riding, etc etc. I don't get it at all now - I imagine it's as Catrike suggests, the circulation getting used to the high BB position.


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## CopperBrompton (26 May 2010)

Arch said:


> none when cycling upright in my normal trainers, to work.


I'd then underline my earlier suggestion to loosen your shoes.


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## squeaker (26 May 2010)

*Sandals*



Ben Lovejoy said:


> I'd then underline my earlier suggestion to loosen your shoes.


Or treat yourself to some sandals. My old Shimano ones have 3 fully adjustable straps, so you can have wiggly toes with firm fitting above the arch. Cool


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## Arch (26 May 2010)

Ben Lovejoy said:


> I'd then underline my earlier suggestion to loosen your shoes.



I'll try that - although I don't have them dead tight anyway. They are quite padded still (you know how shoes eventually get loose because the padding has got compressed? These haven't yet...), so that might be a factor.

I fancied some sandals, but never had the money spare, and then they changed the design and I didn't like them so much. I'll keep a lookout.


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## CopperBrompton (26 May 2010)

I keep mine _really _loose, so my feet can move around a little in them. This means the hotspot isn't in a fixed place.


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## Arch (26 May 2010)

Ok, but I'll blame you if I'm struggling up a hill and my foot comes out of my shoe!


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## CopperBrompton (26 May 2010)

Warranty does not apply to blatent product abuse, like cycling uphill.


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## Fiona N (27 May 2010)

I think it's just more mileage needed and shoes are a red herring  

I've been thinking of a jaunt over to (I believe) your neck of the woods for a recce of some of the Big G features. A potential opportunity for a trike jaunt?


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## Arch (27 May 2010)

Fiona N said:


> I think it's just more mileage needed and shoes are a red herring
> 
> I've been thinking of a jaunt over to (I believe) your neck of the woods for a recce of some of the Big G features. A potential opportunity for a trike jaunt?



Could be - you're thinking of Beverley-ish? We could maybe manage a rendezvous somewhere. 

However, tomorrow I leave for just over 2 weeks in the saddle (seat) through France - that should sort my feet out! So we'll see if the shoes are un hareng rouge.

So, if you come after that (I'm just back in time for York Rally), let me know and we'll see what can be arranged. I'm hoping to do the Big G on the trike.

Ben - my trike being American by birth, it has a sticker on it telling me not to do jumps, or ride after dark, or anything!


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## CopperBrompton (27 May 2010)

Mine is Cornish, so it just tells me to eat pasties.


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## Hilldodger (27 May 2010)

You can always drop your trike of to us and we'll cut and weld it back together again with a lower bracket position.

Or, we've just got this really nice Trice in, just your size


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## Arch (27 May 2010)

Hilldodger said:


> You can always drop your trike of to us and we'll cut and weld it back together again with a lower bracket position.



Yeah, and two extra wheels, one of them oval....



> Or, we've just got this really nice Trice in, just your size



Fancy that! Oh, I forgot. Somewhere on it is a bolt with an odd sized (imperial) allen head. I remember two French trips back, Mike Burrows had to grind a metric allen key down to fit it. I can't remember where, might have been to do with disconnecting the back wheel. I'm sure you'll find it, and have the tool to fit!


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## PaulM (27 May 2010)

I would assume it is pressure problem. The usual advice is:

1. Try a different cleat position, often nearer the heal. Also left/right adjustment.
2. Use more supportive pedals or shoes with stiffer soles. The Shimano A520 spd pedals seem to be a touring standard for recumbenteers.


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## Arch (27 May 2010)

Cheers - the soles couldn't be much stiffer I think. Changing pedals at this stage isn't possible, but if it persists, I can fiddle with the cleats.

The only thing is that I've not had the problem before, in the same shoes and pedals.


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## JohnQNT20 (8 Jun 2010)

Hi, Newbie here. Just finished searching and reading cyclechat for threads on foot pain and cleats .. would like some advice please.

Bit of background first ... since last September I've been riding a trice QNT - about 300 miles total before "the winter" and over 1500 miiles since early March when "the winter" ended. I had never used clip-in pedals prior to riding the trike. Hoping to build up fitness to enable a tour - maybe even a LEJOG later this year or 2011.

After recent rides I'm finding that my feet feel bruised right under where the cleat would be pushing against the centre of the forefoot. I've added a soft insole underneath the cycling shoe innersole but that doesn't seem to help. The shoes are from Lidl and are a comfortable fit for my wide feet. I've tried altering lace and top strap tension - no improvement. It just feels as though the cleat is pushing against the foot causing discomfort, especially after longer rides and as I've got fitter. I'm planning to add something to reinforce the insole to spread the pressure across the whole area of the forefoot - either metal or stiff plastic. Has anyone had success with this approach?

BTW, what I think is happening is I've found the next weak link in the drive train. For the same average heart rate and perceived effort level I'm spinning 3 or 4 gears higher than back in March so I must now be exerting higher foot pressure on the pedal. As cardiovascular output and leg strength have improved I'm now able to press hard enough to hurt my feet! I did my first two metric centuries about 6 weeks ago. After yesterday's 53 mile ride the greatest discomfort was in both feet - even the quads felt OK. I hope I can find a fix for this!

Cheers, John


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## Riding in Circles (8 Jun 2010)

Shoes from Lidl?

I imagine they are flexing in the cleat area, get better shoes, you will never get new feet so look after the ones you have, that means good shoes.


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## Fiona N (8 Jun 2010)

Hi and welcome JohnQNT20
I fear Catrike is right - low quality shoes (and let's admit, Lidl really are too cheap to be high quality ) won't be stiff enough for more than a few miles. Moreover, the soles are likely to soften with further wear unlike good quality cycling shoes. So I think it's time to bite the bullet and get a good pair of shoes with a proper rigid sole - they needn't be prohibitively expensive. Specialized seem to be wider than Shimano in the toe box, and other reputable brands have different fit characteristics so you may need to post in the Gear forum to get advice and suggestions. Evans have a sale on and googling for your desired makes/models will bring up the cheapest source although try before you buy is always a good idea with shoes.


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## JohnQNT20 (12 Jun 2010)

Thanks Catrike and Fiona. The Lidl shoes do seem to have a very stiff sole and I'll be disappointed if it turns out the shoes are inadequately constructed. I've been pleased with the price and quality of the other technical running and cycling kit I've bought from both Aldi and Lidl - after buying the trike I had to economise somewhere! BTW I've no interest in either store other than as an occaisional customer. I think I paid about £18 for the cycling shoes.

First step towards buying a new pair of shoes is to compare the soles of the current ones to brand name cycling shoes. So a trip to the LBS is in order.


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## CopperBrompton (12 Jun 2010)

What size are your feet? I'm going to buy a pair of shoes with recessed cleats, so my existing Specialized shoes will be surplus to requirements. They're size 11.


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## sunnyjim (13 Jun 2010)

Here's my attempt at a custom re-inforcing plate - the main reason was to shift the cleats back to the instep. These are / were somewhat used Specialized shoes, but it would work on any shoe/trainer, as the original soleplate isn't used. Not pretty, but it works for me.


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## JohnQNT20 (13 Jun 2010)

Thanks Ben, I'll pm you about the shoes - BTW I enjoyed your LEJOG write up. Sunnyjim - nice work - I was thinking of a reinforcing plate underneath the existing cleat position that I'm happy with.

However, I think the foot problem may be self-inflicted and due to pedaling style. After buying the QNT I bought an old bikeE which I've been riding with regular pedals. Infact I did most of the early riding this spring on the bikeE and developed the habit of maintaining enough foot pressure on the return pedal stroke to prevent the foot falling off. I don't think this is helping when riding clipped in on the trike. 

When I make a conscious effort to lightly pull on the pedal on the up stroke it feels much easier and the cadence picks up (not surprisingly). It's going to take some deliberate effort to re-train my pedaling form but I think this will really help.


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## Arch (16 Jun 2010)

I've found that I can sort of 'feel' my cleats - I did buy some insoles in a French supermarket but never got round to fitting them as the pain then didn't reoccur. One of my party suggested inserting a stiff plate of something to spread the load. And my shoes, although not top of the range, are Shimano branded.

Anyway, after 14 days of riding, I think heat is a big factor in my foot pain, with a little bit of too-tight shoe. I only suffered a couple of times, both on hot days, and it eased when I loosened the laces a bit. I think it'll get better.


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