# Fence posts



## davidphilips (4 Aug 2021)

Fitted about 220ft of fence about 10 or 12 years ago and to my horror have found that a few of the wooden posts are not in great condition/ Have been told i should have made or fitted lead caps and before concreting then in wraped the base of them in roof felt? 
Only my own opinion but as some of them have developed large cracks damp is going to get at them any way?
Reason for putting this post (no pun intended) is thought i will start and replace them one at a time with concrete posts just a pity i had not fitted concrete posts when putting up the fence, seen a 8ft concrete post for sale on face book and after looking on the net an 8ft post weights about 44kg (so it says).
well went and collected it and got quite a shock when i lifted it think i could have cycled 100 miles a lot easier than lifting that post and carrying it about 30ft, so dont believe every thing on the net theres no way that post is 44kg at a guess i would say twice that at least.
Any one fitted concrete posts or know why wood posts dont seem to last as well as they did know there a country park close to me and i remember as a child playing on a fence with wood posts 30 years ago that are still there today?


----------



## figbat (4 Aug 2021)

There are wooden posts and there are wooden posts. You get what you pay for - a well-treated post should last decades whereas a cheaper, surface-treated one won't. And you need to make sure it is well erected - 1/3 of the post in the ground means less stress on the post from wind etc but often people don't take the time and effort to get really deep. A thicker post the same.


----------



## fossyant (4 Aug 2021)

Concrete are good if fitted well. We did about 10 posts at the back of our garden. Biggest issue was digging the holes, then leveled out the post, and popped postcrete in. Been there over 25 years now. Postcrete is expensive, but marvelous if you aren't doing every post at once or indeed have a mixer.


----------



## classic33 (4 Aug 2021)

Creosote is now banned, for DIY use. I soaked all the fence posts in it for a week, before sticking them in the ground.
Neighbour said I was wasting my time has replaced his for the third time recently.

Agree with Figbat on getting a firm footing for the posts. 10 foot posts and 6 foot fence panels used.


----------



## Smokin Joe (4 Aug 2021)

Concrete all day long. When a panel goes you just lift it out and pop a new one in, the posts last forever.


----------



## MichaelW2 (4 Aug 2021)

My dad concreted in some creosote soaked wooden posts in 198? . I dug out the concrete footings and put concrete posts in last year. The wood always rots.
You need a breaker to smash the footings otherwise it is like escape from Colditz with a cold chisel.
You can get "lightweight" concrete posts.
Postcrete + a few bits of brick or rubble to jam the post in correct position. I think it is a 2 person job to manipulate the lightweight posts.
Corner posts need some thought and I had to rebuild some fence panels to a shorter length and cut gravel boards. You can now get them with hedgehog holes.
Best to put the concrete gravel board in as you raise the posts. I had to lift one up and lower it, def 2 person job.


----------



## oldwheels (4 Aug 2021)

classic33 said:


> Creosote is now banned, for DIY use. I soaked all the fence posts in it for a week, before sticking them in the ground.
> Neighbour said I was wasting my time has replaced his for the third time recently.
> 
> Agree with Figbat on getting a firm footing for the posts. 10 foot posts and 6 foot fence panels used.


I also used real creosote and after about 12 years no noticeable problems.


----------



## mudsticks (4 Aug 2021)

davidphilips said:


> Fitted about 220ft of fence about 10 or 12 years ago and to my horror have found that a few of the wooden posts are not in great condition/ Have been told i should have made or fitted lead caps and before concreting then in wraped the base of them in roof felt?
> Only my own opinion but as some of them have developed large cracks damp is going to get at them any way?
> Reason for putting this post (no pun intended) is thought i will start and replace them one at a time with concrete posts just a pity i had not fitted concrete posts when putting up the fence, seen a 8ft concrete post for sale on face book and after looking on the net an 8ft post weights about 44kg (so it says).
> well went and collected it and got quite a shock when i lifted it think i could have cycled 100 miles a lot easier than lifting that post and carrying it about 30ft, so dont believe every thing on the net theres no way that post is 44kg at a guess i would say twice that at least.
> Any one fitted concrete posts or know why wood posts dont seem to last as well as they did know there a country park close to me and i remember as a child playing on a fence with wood posts 30 years ago that are still there today?



The previous highly toxic, wood tanalising formula, was withdrawn or at reformulated in the early 2000's or thereabouts.

This is why fence posts are not lasting so ell nowadays.

Frustrating for those of us who need to use such things , but maybe better on balance for ecosystrms etc.

6' deer/ rabbit fencing erected here has been quite badly affected.

In some places its more like the strained wire fence is holding up the posts rather than vice versa.

There's a newish steel post fencing system that seems well regarded by the local heath managers hereabouts , if I can find the link I'll post it.


----------



## Gillstay (4 Aug 2021)

Use larch rather than pine if you can get it as again it lasts longer. Personally i just plant a very nice hedge !


----------



## bluenotebob (4 Aug 2021)

Chestnut posts last a very long time too. Pine is simply a waste of time and money - even 'treated' ones are only good for a few years.


----------



## jowwy (5 Aug 2021)

i put all my posts in with ground spikes, so when they do eventually rot ( and they will), i can just unscrew them from the spike and insert a new one. Put them in two years ago now, they are solid as a rock, even in the 50/60mph winds we have suffered in recent winters.


----------



## PK99 (5 Aug 2021)

Wooden fence posts of the right quality and installed correctly are perfectly fine.

As with everything, Quality depends on price. Too often folks rely on cheap materials and then wonder why they fail.

Fencing from these people is expensive but comes with a 25 year guarantee:
https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/fencing

Also, most amateurs install fencing incorrectly and simply dig a hole, drop in the post and fill with Concrete of "FenceFast" - worse still, some folks will put a layer of concrete in the bottom of the hole before putting in the post and backfilling with concrete - thereby creating a water-filled pocket around the base of the post and a non-draining top to the concrete

The correct technique is shown in Jacksons' instructions:
https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/...hash=5690ED7FCAE1ACA7ECA400123403E05E602BC749


Essential points are a drainage layer of gravel at the bottom of the hole and a chamfered top to shed water








Worth noting: a concrete fence post weighs 40-50kg - twice the safe handling weight for one person
A wooden 2.4m 75mm post is about 8kg, 100mm post 14kg.


----------



## jowwy (5 Aug 2021)

PK99 said:


> Wooden fence posts of the right quality and installed correctly are perfectly fine.
> 
> As with everything, Quality depends on price. Too often folks rely on cheap materials and then wonder why they fail.
> 
> ...


fixed that for you due to current prices lol


----------



## MichaelW2 (5 Aug 2021)

On our farm we used telegraph poles as fence posts. Still good after 40 years. What are they made of?


----------



## PK99 (5 Aug 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> On our farm we used telegraph poles as fence posts. Still good after 40 years. What are they made of?



Creosote treated hardwood


----------



## Ian H (5 Aug 2021)

We put concrete ones in. A local man did the job, a big bloke happy to carry two posts on his shoulder up the garden. It should last us out.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (5 Aug 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> On our farm we used telegraph poles as fence posts. Still good after 40 years. What are they made of?


My ex used to work for BT - one of the engineers told her that the telegraph poles were soaked on creosote - literally submerged in big tank - for about 1- years before being used
Which would explain why they don't rot very quickly


----------



## Tenkaykev (5 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> My ex used to work for BT - one of the engineers told her that the telegraph poles were soaked on creosote - literally submerged in big tank - for about 1- years before being used
> Which would explain why they don't rot very quickly


Coincidentally we had an OpenReach engineer visit a few weeks ago to sort out a Broadband issue. It turned out to be a dodgy joint on the telegraph pole. He pointed out that the pole had a small metal plate with a " D" stamped into it meaning " Do Not Climb " I think it was because of the age of the pole and not the physical condition. A van with a " Cherry Picker " turned up and did the remedial work.


----------



## Electric_Andy (5 Aug 2021)

We've always got our posts from a local timber merchant who specializes in fencing. They are pressure treated and so far have lasted very well. The B&Q ones or from any other chain I would not trust to last 5 years let alone 10. But they can be covered or treated as others have said. 

Rather than full concrete posts, a concrete repair spur can be very useful. They're only have the size (and therefore half the weight) of a full post but can be set in the ground either in front or behind the existing wodden post. Takes a load more pressure of the wooden post so should last longer.


----------



## davidphilips (5 Aug 2021)

After reading all the great posts and information only my own view but treated posts now are not made to last a life time? The treatment is not as good as it was years ago, Still remember the smell of treated wood with creosote the smell seemed to last for weeks the treatment for years.

for me any way its either concrete or perhaps steel posts or if using wood do what jowwy done use spikes and have every thing screwed or bolted together and then its easy to replace.

Years ago i thought treated 100mm posts and put in deep was a life time job little did i know i was just giving myself lots of both expense and extra work, that plus just how much wood has shot up in price.

The great thing about all the replies is any one reading them may just have the information even if they are just contracting the work to a builder etc to make a better fence etc.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (5 Aug 2021)

I concreted in "godfathers"* and bolted my wooden posts to those. Fence is still going strong after 35 years.

* I think godfathers is a local name as I've heard them being referred to by other names. They are the stub like concrete things often used to repair broken fence posts. I just avoided the breaking part right from the get go.


----------



## DaveReading (5 Aug 2021)

When you bought them, did you make them an offer they couldn't refuse?


----------



## shep (5 Aug 2021)

I've used those metal spike things but concrete them in rather than just hammer them in then at least they're straight. 

If a post does rot its easy to replace, not a lover of concrete posts and gravel boards I have to admit.


----------



## keithmac (6 Aug 2021)

I replaced nigh on 40 posts, concrete was not an option due to weight!.

Bought a petrol auger drilled some 3 or 4 foot deep holes and packed them in gravel.

Hasn't moved an inch in 3 years or more and very easil to replace in next 15 years or so.

The gravel provides good drainage as well.


----------



## keithmac (6 Aug 2021)

Our fence was hand made so had to cut it into sections, gave up trying to dig the old posts out so installed new posts in between and removed old ones to below ground level.


----------



## berty bassett (6 Aug 2021)

timber has gazumped in price and is not the same as it used to be , force grown open grained , will split and rot , point where it will go first is where it continually goes from wet to dry ie top and point where it enters the ground so it will rot at ground level
will last longer if you dont use concrete around it as concrete holds the water
you will end up either replacing with new posts of timber or concrete
or digging down side and fixing concrete spurs
if i had to use timber i would definitely put spurs in and fix wood so its above ground , less chance of rotting
water based preservatives work but not very well
old recipe creosote was wonderful especially if mixed with old engine oil but not allowed
sadolin is very good but dear , cheaper if you spray it
we used new oak sleepers to retain soil 3 years ago , pea gravel behind them to help drain - they are already rotting ,compared to old railway sleepers that have been there years and havent been touched - new wood is expensive rubbish


----------



## albal (15 Oct 2022)

Slightly different topic. My posts are fine . Concrete. It's the wood. Finally after 30 year s old i,ve to re new. 
It's a rental. 
Do I buy the timber separately or the pre made panels. Also coach bolts, nails,top rails. 
Is wood pre stained?
I,ve no idea.






Not slot in type, as can see from pictures.

Also do i reverse the panels as opposed to facing the neighbors, sorry not very good at explain ING such stuff you know.
Any advice gratefully appreciated.

I,m thinking before Nov 5th , so my tenant could burn the old stuff on said date? Would that work?


----------



## davidphilips (15 Oct 2022)

If it was me i would replace with boards perhaps the round top, along with wood rails, replaced quite a few lately and to give you an idea of price the boards are about £4.50 each and are just under 6 inches wide so along with fixing screws bolts and rails it works out at about £12 for every foot for a 6 foot high fence. 
So if say you have 70 feet of fence to replace and your posts are great then for parts allow £850, the price of all timber screws and bolts etc is not cheap.


----------



## Jameshow (15 Oct 2022)

PK99 said:


> Wooden fence posts of the right quality and installed correctly are perfectly fine.
> 
> As with everything, Quality depends on price. Too often folks rely on cheap materials and then wonder why they fail.
> 
> ...



Both bad, I wouldn't put soil up again the post unless told to by the shmbo as the damp soil will rot the post.


----------



## Ian H (15 Oct 2022)

albal said:


> Slightly different topic. My posts are fine . Concrete. It's the wood. Finally after 30 year s old i,ve to re new.
> It's a rental.
> Do I buy the timber separately or the pre made panels. Also coach bolts, nails,top rails.
> Is wood pre stained?
> ...


Those panels are the right way round - smooth side outwards (though lots of folk put them the wrong way round nowadays). The fence probably looks continuous from the other side, but I'm guessing, from the extra rails that aren't attached to the posts, that it's in pre-made sections.


----------



## Ian H (15 Oct 2022)

When I sold my parents' place about four years ago, a few of the concrete fence posts were beginning to spall. They were already there in 1956 when said parents bought the place, so they've lasted reasonably well.


----------



## Gillstay (15 Oct 2022)

You could put new rails across and the upright lats on to them with gaps, or does the fence need to be solid ?


----------



## albal (16 Oct 2022)

Thanks for the replies. The development on the other side is currently under construction. 

As for the panels ,they may well be pre made going by the doubling up of the rails as seen. I,d guess this would be the cheapest option.?

Tho my colleague ( willing to help me out with installation) who does a bit of his own maintenance, on his rentals, 
suggests I go down the route of individual feather edges. As the posts are not all the same width apart.

A lot of nails required at 75 ft.


----------



## PK99 (16 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Both bad, I wouldn't put soil up again the post unless told to by the shmbo as the damp soil will rot the post.



I've got Jackson wooden fence posts to one side, put in properly by neighbours contractor 25 years ago. Still solid as the day they went in.

Guy who put in a dozen standard posts for me at about the same time used the wrong technique as shown in above link. ALL rotted after 10/15 years and now have concreted repair stubs.

Jacksons posts are kiln dried then pressure treated with preservative ie penetrates into the heartwood not just the first few mm

Good post +Proper drainage below + shamfered top to concrete fill = long life


----------



## CXRAndy (16 Oct 2022)

I had some fencing done, learnt a few tips and tricks. But the best idea for removing old post whether wood or concrete, hydraulic leverage from a car jack, spare 4*4" wood post. Create a pivot - bingo 

On the back of this I replaced my neighbours old wood fence with concrete posts, concrete barge boards and vertical slat panels. Came out spot on solid, dead level


----------



## CXRAndy (16 Oct 2022)

Ian H said:


> Those panels are the right way round - smooth side outwards (though lots of folk put them the wrong way round nowadays). The fence probably looks continuous from the other side, but I'm guessing, from the extra rails that aren't attached to the posts, that it's in pre-made sections.



Sod that, I had all panels with nice side face inward towards my house. I'm not paying good money to see the horizontal mounting beams.


----------



## Ian H (16 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Sod that, I had all panels with nice side face inward towards my house. I'm not paying good money to see the horizontal mounting beams.



Well-made fences should look good both sides, and the smooth side is more difficult to climb. Also, the rails are what you tie your climbing plants to.


----------



## Ian H (16 Oct 2022)

albal said:


> A lot of nails required at 75 ft.



Hire a nail gun.


----------



## CXRAndy (17 Oct 2022)

Ian H said:


> Well-made fences should look good both sides, and the smooth side is more difficult to climb. Also, the rails are what you tie your climbing plants to.



Have you seen the prices of fence panels. Prices for double sided are £80 and more per panel. Not to mention significant weight increase. The job installing becomes a two man job straight away. If you're paying someone that is a big expense. 
There is a niche market, but every house I've seen with has used single side panels. Maybe in the home counties folk pay.


----------



## Gillstay (17 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Have you seen the prices of fence panels. Prices for double sided are £80 and more per panel. Not to mention significant weight increase. The job installing becomes a two man job straight away. If you're paying someone that is a big expense.
> There is a niche market, but every house I've seen with has used single side panels. Maybe in the home counties folk pay.



I don't think he mentioned double sided !


----------



## albal (22 Oct 2022)

No using double sided. The ones ive purchased are closeboard. 6x6. At about £40 each.


----------



## albal (27 Oct 2022)

I,ll put the good side on here. ! The inside isn't pretty. The stump is on council land. They tried without success to remove it.
Should last a few years.


----------



## albal (27 Oct 2022)




----------



## Chislenko (27 Oct 2022)

albal said:


> View attachment 666049
> 
> 
> I,ll put the good side on here. ! The inside isn't pretty. The stump is on council land. They tried without success to remove it.
> Should last a few years.



There used to be a product called Root Out that got rid of stumps, not sure if it was banned by EU though. I got rid of a couple by using it.


----------



## Jameshow (27 Oct 2022)

albal said:


> View attachment 666049
> 
> 
> I,ll put the good side on here. ! The inside isn't pretty. The stump is on council land. They tried without success to remove it.
> Should last a few years.



Shows how good council services are - any self respecting tree surgeon could remove that stump!!


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Shows how good council services are - any self respecting tree surgeon could remove that stump!!



Council couldn't be bothered to remove it. Anybody can do that. I would have cut it flush with the ground, drilled several deep holes in the remaining stump and applied a tiny amount of diesel into the holes, this will kill the remaining stump.


----------



## oldwheels (28 Oct 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> My ex used to work for BT - one of the engineers told her that the telegraph poles were soaked on creosote - literally submerged in big tank - for about 1- years before being used
> Which would explain why they don't rot very quickly



For the same reason you are not advised to burn them either. Creosote is different nowadays anyway as it was regarded as being just too poisonous for general public use.


----------



## Gillstay (28 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Council couldn't be bothered to remove it. Anybody can do that. I would have cut it flush with the ground, drilled several deep holes in the remaining stump and applied a tiny amount of diesel into the holes, this will kill the remaining stump.



No, the council don't go around pouring poisons in to the urban environment for no obvious reason. It's not a case of not bothering.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (29 Oct 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Council couldn't be bothered to remove it. Anybody can do that. I would have cut it flush with the ground, drilled several deep holes in the remaining stump and applied a tiny amount of diesel into the holes, this will kill the remaining stump.



To avoid putting poisins into the environment even just drilling the holes will help it rot quicker

Make the holes as vertical as possible and as deep as possible and the water pooled inside will make it rot faster


----------



## davidphilips (2 Nov 2022)

Another way to kill the tree stump would be either some copper nails or the cheap way just drill a few deep 15 mm holes and push in some old bits of copper pipe bit of soil over them job done.


----------



## shep (2 Nov 2022)

Why not just get a stump grinder in, I paid £150 for a fella to grind 2 down.


----------

