# What is the biggest rip-off



## totallyfixed (25 Feb 2012)

in cycling? My nomination goes to Look Keo cleats, Noticed today they were down to the screws, too late to order from Ribble so went to lbs, £19.99 for essentially a moulded piece of plastic [might as well be cheddar cheese].


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## ColinJ (25 Feb 2012)

I had the old-style Look cleats on the SIDIs I used to wear when riding my Cannondale. I felt the same way about the cost of those cleats. It wasn't just the cost, it was the fact that they wore down so quickly. 

I reckon most sports/energy drinks are way too expensive. I buy maltodextrin in bulk and make my own for about 35p a litre.


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## topcat1 (25 Feb 2012)

crank bros cleats made of cheese


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## oldfatfool (25 Feb 2012)

Speedplay cleats at £35 a pop.


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## smokeysmoo (25 Feb 2012)

oldfatfool said:


> Speedplay cleats at £35 a pop.


+1, although they are more than a standard cleat but even so. Glad I managed to acquire a spare set for mine


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## MacB (25 Feb 2012)

special shoes and clippy pedals


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## totallyfixed (25 Feb 2012)

There's a theme developing here


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## ohnovino (25 Feb 2012)

I needed longer bolts to fit my cleats to my shoes:

Shimano "cycling" bolts - £6.99 for 6
Normal bolts from a hardware shop - £3 for 50


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## smokeysmoo (25 Feb 2012)

ohnovino said:


> I needed longer bolts to fit my cleats to my shoes:
> 
> Shimano "cycling" bolts - £6.99 for 6
> Normal bolts from a hardware shop - £3 for 50


 
That's where a good LBS is worth it's weight. I needed one cleat bolt a while back, my LBS had some loose ones and it only cost me a few pence


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## CopperCyclist (25 Feb 2012)

Hmm. Overshoes. My Altura Nightvision ones have worn off with about six months of on-and-off use through the wet weather. I'm trying to scrap through with them before they fall apart completely as the weather gets warmer, and might look to get a specialist wet weather cycling shoe for next winter such as the Louis Garneau Glacier - although Evans haven't answered my query about whether these will take SPD-SL!


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## youngoldbloke (25 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> in cycling? My nomination goes to Look Keo cleats, Noticed today they were down to the screws, too late to order from Ribble so went to lbs, £19.99 for essentially a moulded piece of plastic [might as well be cheddar cheese].


 
+1


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## screenman (25 Feb 2012)

What is a rip off, all the overheads that go into running a business so that guys have somewhere to buy from.


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## youngoldbloke (25 Feb 2012)

screenman said:


> *What is a rip off*, all the overheads that go into running a business so that guys have somewhere to buy from.


 
See posts above. I won't buy cleats from my LBS for 19.99 so its a bit counter productive isn't it?


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## screenman (25 Feb 2012)

I will buy from a LBS just to help keep them in business, some owners are taking less than minimum wage out for themselves just to stay open.


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## dave r (25 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> in cycling? My nomination goes to Look Keo cleats, Noticed today they were down to the screws, too late to order from Ribble so went to lbs, £19.99 for essentially a moulded piece of plastic [might as well be cheddar cheese].


 
The price of the bikes themselves, even in this day and age once you get over a grand for a bike its starting to get silly, if I'm ever in the position to pay more than a grand for my transport I'm going to buy a car.


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## gavroche (25 Feb 2012)

In life? The government.


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## gaz (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> The price of the bikes themselves, even in this day and age once you get over a grand for a bike its starting to get silly, if I'm ever in the position to pay more than a grand for my transport I'm going to buy a car.


To some, a bicycle is not just a mode of transport.


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## dave r (26 Feb 2012)

gaz said:


> To some, a bicycle is not just a mode of transport.


 
A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is


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## youngoldbloke (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is


It can be just that. But for many of us it is much, much more. I mostly use my bike to cycle from point A back to point A. In real terms a totally unnecessary journey, but most enjoyable.


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## NormanD (26 Feb 2012)

Cycle light ... seems the more you pay, the brighter the light, the less run time you get compared to normal battery lights


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## GrasB (26 Feb 2012)

Shimano small service parts - bots, ball bearings, circlips, etc. Higher quality items can be had at 1 or 2 orders of magnitude cheaper!



oldfatfool said:


> Speedplay cleats at £35 a pop.


I'm not so sure on that one. Lets ignore the 5k mile warning for a moment (that's there to try & sell more cleats). £35 for 20k miles of riding & still going strong showing minimal wear on the circlip + working surfaces of the circlip 'cage'. They can stand a 4 mile walk to an area where I could get a mobile signal to ring a friend. I can't find another system that gives that level of wear & has such a secure footing. The best wearing look style cleats seem to last about 10-12.5k miles.


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## oldfatfool (26 Feb 2012)

GrasB said:


> Shimano small service parts - bots, ball bearings, circlips, etc. Higher quality items can be had at 1 or 2 orders of magnitude cheaper!
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure on that one. Lets ignore the 5k mile warning for a moment (that's there to try & sell more cleats). £35 for 20k miles of riding & still going strong showing minimal wear on the circlip + working surfaces of the circlip 'cage'. They can stand a 4 mile walk to an area where I could get a mobile signal to ring a friend. I can't find another system that gives that level of wear & has such a secure footing. The best wearing look style cleats seem to last about 10-12.5k miles.


 
Fair comment, but I still £35 is on the expensive side for what they are.


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## Scilly Suffolk (26 Feb 2012)

NormanD said:


> Cycle light ... seems the more you pay, the brighter the light, the less run time you get compared to normal battery lights


Brighter lights need more power, so unless you increase the capacity of the batteries...


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2012)

Some sportives.

Deloittes tour of Britain thing.

The emperor's new clothes that are Rapha/Assos.


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## Ethan (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is


 
Yes my bike gets me from A to B, but its so much more than that to me.
Its my hobby, it keeps me fit, it keeps me active, it cheers me up when I'm down, it lets me explore the country side in a way you just cant do in a car, it helps me meet new people.

Anyway, back on topic.
I think cycling clothing is massively overpriced. £50 for a jersey is just over the top!
And the specialized bottle cage I just got - £10.99?! Had to get it though, it looks great on the bike  Thats where student discount comes in handy


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## gavintc (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is


 
Except when your route is a circle and you do not stop until you get back to where you started.


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## CopperCyclist (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is



Not for me, and not mores lot of us. My car fits much, much more comfortably into this definition than my bike by a long way.

If this was true of my bike, I wouldn't extend my commute. I wouldn't go out on a bike ride for enjoyment only. I wouldn't have lost almost three stone in a year. I wouldn't be the most physically fit I've ever been. I wouldn't have joined a cycling forum to chat about it!


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## totallyfixed (26 Feb 2012)

Cut him some slack guys, he's a bit down cos he couldn't ride today. Back on topic, it occurs to me I could buy a track pump for the price of a set of cleats or....I've said this before but how come you can pay more for a bike tyre than a car tyre?


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## 400bhp (26 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is


 
The bike itself is (noun probably). Cycling though is completely different.


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## dave r (26 Feb 2012)

Ethan said:


> Yes my bike gets me from A to B, but its so much more than that to me.
> Its my hobby, it keeps me fit, it keeps me active, it cheers me up when I'm down, it lets me explore the country side in a way you just cant do in a car, it helps me meet new people.
> 
> Anyway, back on topic.
> ...


 
I agree with you on the cycle clothing, a lot of it is well over priced.



CopperCyclist said:


> Not for me, and not mores lot of us. My car fits much, much more comfortably into this definition than my bike by a long way.
> 
> If this was true of my bike, I wouldn't extend my commute. I wouldn't go out on a bike ride for enjoyment only. I wouldn't have lost almost three stone in a year. I wouldn't be the most physically fit I've ever been. I wouldn't have joined a cycling forum to chat about it!


 
I don't own a car, I haven't owned a car for over thirty years, my bike is my transport.


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## Ian H (26 Feb 2012)

Road cleats are not really designed for any significant amount of contact with the ground. For commuting or leisure riding, mtb cleats (e.g. spd) and appropriate shoes are a better bet.


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## slowmotion (26 Feb 2012)

http://www.moonriders.co.uk/event.php


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## ColinJ (26 Feb 2012)

Ian H said:


> Road cleats are not really designed for any significant amount of contact with the ground. For commuting or leisure riding, mtb cleats (e.g. spd) and appropriate shoes are a better bet.


That's why I switched over to SPDs. 

The last straw for me was an emergency bailout on local monster climb 'Mytholm Steeps'. I had Look pedals on my bike, and was wearing my SIDI shoes when my rear wheel slid out from under me on a wet section of road at 25% gradient. I got a foot down and that promptly slid away from me too. I cracked my tackle on the top tube and almost face-planted on the road. I then had to take my shoes off to walk to the top of the steep bit because I couldn't get started again, and I couldn't walk with my shoes on either!


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## CopperCyclist (27 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> I agree with you on the cycle clothing, a lot of it is well over priced.
> 
> I don't own a car, I haven't owned a car for over thirty years, my bike is my transport.



Perhaps what we should agree on is that a better wording for your post would have been: 'FOR ME, a cycle is something to get you from point A to point B, that's all it is (to me)'

I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people on here would feel differently  My bikes have become much more to me now that just a method of transport!


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## screenman (27 Feb 2012)

I think what some may call a rip off is comparable with disposable income, the more you have the easier ins ome cases it is to spend.

A lot of my actual work time is nowadays spent taking small dents out of cars for this I charge on average £45 and it takes often only a few minutes per job, is this a rip off? I think not as there is far more involved than the customer see's as is often the case with most things we buy.


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## youngoldbloke (27 Feb 2012)

Just a thought .... I find using cleat covers a PITA, but if they are tough enough to protect the cleats, why not make the cleats out of the same stuff?
The cost of Look cleats seems to increase every time i need a new pair - who sets the RRP? And its only 'recommended' yet every LBS I go into is charging it. My disposable income is certainly not increasing at the same rate as the RRP of Look products, if anything it is shrinking.


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## totallyfixed (27 Feb 2012)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just a thought .... I find using cleat covers a PITA, but if they are tough enough to protect the cleats, why not make the cleats out of the same stuff?
> The cost of Look cleats seems to increase every time i need a new pair - who sets the RRP? And its only 'recommended' yet every LBS I go into is charging it. My disposable income is certainly not increasing at the same rate as the RRP of Look products, if anything it is shrinking.


Ah well, what we should be asking is how come the same cleats at Ribble are half the price of my lbs? I know the shop has to have a mark up but Ribble also have a mark up, I would dearly love to know the cost of manufacturing a cheap piece of plastic cleat. I have always used cleat covers [soft rubber, no use as cleats] so no wear there plus I have zero float and unclip less than others yet still they wear down.


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## briantrumpet (27 Feb 2012)

ColinJ said:


> That's why I switched over to SPDs.
> 
> The last straw for me was an emergency bailout on local monster climb 'Mytholm Steeps'. I had Look pedals on my bike, and was wearing my SIDI shoes when my rear wheel slid out from under me on a wet section of road at 25% gradient. I got a foot down and that promptly slid away from me too. I cracked my tackle on the top tube and almost face-planted on the road. I then had to take my shoes off to walk to the top of the steep bit because I couldn't get started again, and I couldn't walk with my shoes on either!


I remember reading a post from someone who had had to walk to the top of a long hill because of ice, and when they got there had worn down their road cleats to the extent that they wouldn't clip in.

Seems to me like the people who design road cleats don't have any incentive to redesign them so they don't wear out so quickly. After all, it's the folk that are continually having to replace the cleats who are providing the designers' and manufacturers' income. I'll stick with my SPDs, thanks. Good design, cheap(ish), and don't wear out. Shimano must regret having designed them. Remember The Man In The White Suit?


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## GrasB (27 Feb 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> I remember reading a post from someone who had had to walk to the top of a long hill because of ice, and when they got there had worn down their road cleats to the extent that they wouldn't clip in.


Speedplay road cleats. They're great on ice because the metal digs in 
useless on snow as they make a nice hockey puck of ice


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## ColinJ (27 Feb 2012)

briantrumpet said:


> Seems to me like the people who design road cleats don't have any incentive to redesign them so they don't wear out so quickly. After all, it's the folk that are continually having to replace the cleats who are providing the designers' and manufacturers' income. I'll stick with my SPDs, thanks. Good design, cheap(ish), and don't wear out. Shimano must regret having designed them. Remember The Man In The White Suit?


Indeed - I don't think that I have ever worn out a pair of SPD cleats but I've worn out SPD shoes and transplanted the cleats onto the replacement pair!


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## Dags11 (28 Feb 2012)

Gore-tex for cyclists


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## totallyfixed (28 Feb 2012)

Brake blocks


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## ColinJ (28 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Brake blocks


Steve - try DiscoBrakes. My (late 90s model) Campagnolo Athena blocks are expensive if I buy the real McCoys, but last week I bought 4 pairs of DiscoBrake's Campagnolo clone pads for £8.37 incl. which I think is very reasonable!

I've been using them for a few years. The blocks are about 90% as good as the proper Campagnolo ones. The only minor criticism I would make is that they fade slightly when they get too hot, but UK descents are not really long enough to cause major problems.

They do replacement blocks for all Campagnolo and Shimano brakes and pads for most MTB disk brakes as well.


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## totallyfixed (28 Feb 2012)

I was thinking about the high end stuff, more than brake pads for a car????
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-race-pro-2011-yellow-high-power-pads/


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## ColinJ (28 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> I was thinking about the high end stuff, more than brake pads for a car????
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-race-pro-2011-yellow-high-power-pads/


Ha ha! Seriously - ha ha!

I tell you - even if I were a multi-millionaire, I would not pay £10k for a bicycle (sorry Dave, but I probably _would_ pay £3-4k!) and I would not pay more than £10 for a pair of brake blocks! I also would not pay more than £30 for a tyre or £30 for a chain.

If I had money to burn, I'd rather spend it on taking me and a cheaper bike on more foreign cycling trips.


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## totallyfixed (28 Feb 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Ha ha! Seriously - ha ha!
> 
> I tell you - even if I were a multi-millionaire, I would not pay £10k for a bicycle (sorry Dave, but I probably _would_ pay £3-4k!) and I would not pay more than £10 for a pair of brake blocks! I also would not pay more than £30 for a tyre or £30 for a chain.
> 
> If I had money to burn, I'd rather spend it on taking me and a cheaper bike on more foreign cycling trips.


 
I'm in 100% agreement there. Unfortunately the boss as you know needs decent equipment to compete and it is not a level playing field, her TT bike is around 2.3k plus a disc wheel £800 which we had to save for. Many of the women she competes against turn up on 8k bikes with discs twice the price of ours.
Cycling can be cheap but it can also be damned expensive.


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (29 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> I'm in 100% agreement there. Unfortunately the boss as you know needs decent equipment to compete and it is not a level playing field, her TT bike is around 2.3k plus a disc wheel £800 which we had to save for. Many of the women she competes against turn up on 8k bikes with discs twice the price of ours.
> Cycling can be cheap but it can also be damned expensive.


 
And it must be seriously disappointing when one lady on her £8k bike cannot out-pace someone on a bike 1/4 the value.
For what its worth i think all time trials should be on a level playing field ... all alloy bikes, no carbons allowed.


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## youngoldbloke (29 Feb 2012)

One reason I'm not rushing to go 11 speed Campag Chain Tool


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## dave r (29 Feb 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> Perhaps what we should agree on is that a better wording for your post would have been: 'FOR ME, a cycle is something to get you from point A to point B, that's all it is (to me)'
> 
> I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people on here would feel differently  My bikes have become much more to me now that just a method of transport!


 
No, when you boil it down to basics a bike is just a machine for getting from point A to point B, and as such they are over priced.


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## zizou (29 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> No, when you boil it down to basics a bike is just a machine for getting from point A to point B, and as such they are over priced.


 
That is like saying when you boil life down to the basics it is just about getting from the womb to the coffin. Some of us hope to enjoy the journey too.


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## GrasB (29 Feb 2012)

dave r said:


> No, when you boil it down to basics a bike is just a machine for getting from point A to point B, and as such they are over priced.


When I'm not in the UK points A & B are fairly irrelevant. They're random landmarks which have little to no relevance beyond being the start & end points of the ride. No, it's how I'm getting from A to B which is important to me.


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## youngoldbloke (29 Feb 2012)

zizou said:


> That is like saying when you boil life down to the basics it is just about getting from the womb to the coffin. Some of us hope to enjoy the journey too.


 
+1
I don't commute by bike, I don't shop by bike, I do not use it as a means of transport. I cycle around 5000 miles are year - all in the pursuit of fitness and pleasure.


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## Gooner Mad Dog (29 Feb 2012)

velcro ! biggest rip off


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## fenlandpsychocyclist (29 Feb 2012)

Modern BMW'S
And i say that having spent the last 17 years driving and maintaining the older ones.
E28 520i + 525e, E30 325ise, E32 730i, E32 740i.

If you look under the bonnet of, say, a five year old BMW 320 diesel, you find EXACTLY the same
make and model of fuel pump fitted on the humble zafira dti.
The dual mass flywheel and clutch ... ditto.
Electronics, again ... straight out of the bin marked "FOR ALL MAKES OF EURO CARS".

Long gone are the days when manufacturers had "their own parts", now you're just paying
for the badge.


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## Linford (29 Feb 2012)

Businesses are being squeezed hard nowadays. We make very little in the UK, and most of the raw materials which are used to make our own manufactured goods comes from abroad. On top of this, the businesses also have to pay a lot of money to get the stuff into to the shops due to the transport costs (and the bulk of that is the fuel duty and VAT).

If we restored our manufacturing capability, and reduced the tax burden on the fuel which affect every part of the trasportation business including the drivers wages (and associated cost of living) things would be a fraction of what they are now in the UK.


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## ColinJ (29 Feb 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> I'm in 100% agreement there. Unfortunately the boss as you know needs decent equipment to compete and it is not a level playing field, her TT bike is around 2.3k plus a disc wheel £800 which we had to save for. Many of the women she competes against turn up on 8k bikes with discs twice the price of ours.
> Cycling can be cheap but it can also be damned expensive.





fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> And it must be seriously disappointing when one lady on her £8k bike cannot out-pace someone on a bike 1/4 the value.
> For what its worth i think all time trials should be on a level playing field ... all alloy bikes, no carbons allowed.


I like the idea of 'old skool'. There is a kind of ruthless logic to aerodynamics which I don't like - just look at Obree's original tuck position. It worked but it looked horrible. I don't know if it was comfortable or would be safe on the road, I suspect not. 



Uncle Mort said:


> They look great, Colin, thanks for posting this. If you have an account and you recommend two people you get a free baseball cap.
> 
> (If you want me to say you recommended, send me a PM).


Well, I'm ColinJ at DiscoBrakes too - thanks!


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## GrasB (29 Feb 2012)

fenlandpsychocyclist said:


> And it must be seriously disappointing when one lady on her £8k bike cannot out-pace someone on a bike 1/4 the value.


An 8k bike doesn't make you a strong rider, it's makes you an equipment rich rider. The reality is that there's very little difference between a 2.5k & an 8k bike in terms of aerodynamics assuming people are running the same wheel set. But when 1w differences start being important then the extra money put into the 8k bike start to pay off. Also you have to train into your bike & get it setup properly to gain leverage from the minimal advantages found.


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## fossyant (29 Feb 2012)

youngoldbloke said:


> One reason I'm not rushing to go 11 speed Campag Chain Tool


 
You get round that by using a KMC 11 speed chain with a quick link !


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## fossyant (29 Feb 2012)

Look Delta cleats are cheaper then Keo, phew ! 

SPD cleats are pricey too, considering you can get M520's for not much more with cleats ! 

Pads, I use Clarkes - perfect.


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## ColinJ (29 Feb 2012)

fossyant said:


> SPD cleats are pricey too, considering you can get M520's for not much more with cleats !


They would be if you had to buy them, but I've never worn out the cleats that came with my various SPD pedals! 

Cheapskates ...! I've just been looking at some cheap M520s on eBay and they are being sold _without_ the cleats, which no doubt are then being sold separately!


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## GlasgowGaryH (29 Feb 2012)

Energy drinks

I use disco brakes too


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Cut him some slack guys, he's a bit down cos he couldn't ride today. Back on topic, it occurs to me I could buy a track pump for the price of a set of cleats or....I've said this before but how come you can pay more for a bike tyre than a car tyre?


Can you point to some bike tyres that cost 175 quid a corner?


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> They would be if you had to buy them, but I've never worn out the cleats that came with my various SPD pedals!
> 
> Cheapskates ...! I've just been looking at some cheap M520s on eBay and they are being sold _without_ the cleats, which no doubt are then being sold separately!


They are, for another tenner.


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## totallyfixed (1 Mar 2012)

Cubist said:


> Can you point to some bike tyres that cost 175 quid a corner?


Why did I know someone would say that? I was talking average car tyre prices, you can pay over £100 for a tub and for my 195 car tyres I pay about £60. The point I was making which I'm sure you know, was the amount of material used in both, yet prices especially for a small [ecological] car can be similar.


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## 400bhp (1 Mar 2012)

You're not comparing like with like. Try average comparison.

Average bike trye - perhaps £15


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

gaz said:


> To some, a bicycle is not just a mode of transport.


 Well said sir!


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

Everything... The clothes, the bikes, the parts, club membership etc etc...

yet we still do it.

Why you ask?

You all know why!!! 

Id rather smash out £2000 on a tip top road bike with a team sky kit and fancy pedaling shoes that will give me endless enjoyment, fitness and an identity as a cyclist than £2000 on a crap holiday to lanzarote where you spend 7 days bored by the poolside drinking crap lager and arguing with the missus!

The maintenance costs and continuous part changes can be pricey... but worth it!


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## Cubist (1 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Why did I know someone would say that? I was talking average car tyre prices, you can pay over £100 for a tub and for my 195 car tyres I pay about £60. The point I was making which I'm sure you know, was the amount of material used in both, yet prices especially for a small [ecological] car can be similar.


Chill. I had to put some new ones on my car on Tuesday , and I still can't sit down......................


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## GrasB (1 Mar 2012)

400bhp said:


> You're not comparing like with like. Try average comparison.
> 
> Average bike trye - perhaps £15


I had this one out out with someone before & they simply didn't seem to get that when you compared like with like the prices are actually reasonable.


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## totallyfixed (1 Mar 2012)

GrasB said:


> I had this one out out with someone before & they simply didn't seem to get that when you compared like with like the prices are actually reasonable.


Yep, and I've had this one out too. Compare percentage cost of average car tyre to ave cost of car and do the same with a bike and unless you are running a Trabant with Ferrari size tyres, think again.


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## GrasB (1 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Yep, and I've had this one out too. Compare percentage cost of average car tyre to ave cost of car and do the same with a bike and unless you are running a Trabant with Ferrari size tyres, think again.


 Let's agree to disagree on this one.


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## 400bhp (1 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Yep, and I've had this one out too. Compare percentage cost of average car tyre to ave cost of car and do the same with a bike and unless you are running a Trabant with Ferrari size tyres, think again.


 
And you're not comparing like with like again. The fact that a car tryre is a lower percentage cost of a car shows that a car is much more expensive compared to the cost of a bike-there's more sh1t in a car.


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## Speedywheelsjeans (1 Mar 2012)

ooohhh things are getting hairy!!


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## totallyfixed (1 Mar 2012)

Speedywheelsjeans said:


> ooohhh things are getting hairy!!


Nah, never argue on the internet, you don't have to be part of a thread for long before you realise you are the slowest thing on two wheels, done the least miles in the longest time, have a crap bike compared to others and know nothing about them. Yet to meet these people but it's sure to be interesting when I do.


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## Rahul Sapariya (1 Mar 2012)

'Park tools' tools. Over priced and some of the stuff they have are rubbish. I find their spoke keys to be rubbish. I find using the m part pro spoke keys or equivalent to be much better. I may be biased because I generally hate pricey things and tools are just an extension of it but from my own experience as a bike mechanic, park tools do nothing special when you pay twice as much for the same tool.


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## doctornige (1 Mar 2012)

dave r said:


> A cycle is something to get you from point A to Point B thats all it is



Heh. I use one to get from point A to point A, with variable distance and difficulty in between.


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## totallyfixed (1 Mar 2012)

This, as modelled by one of the Blues Brothers.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/assos-rssturmprinz-ultra-light-rain-jacket/
Can buy a fixed for that money.


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## ColinJ (1 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> This, as modelled by one of the Blues Brothers.
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/assos-rssturmprinz-ultra-light-rain-jacket/
> Can buy a fixed for that money.


I know people who swear by Assos!




(I'd rather swear _at_ it! )


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## doctornige (2 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I reckon most sports/energy drinks are way too expensive. I buy maltodextrin in bulk and make my own for about 35p a litre.



For isotonic, I just do this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/healthy_eating/features/newsid_2132000/2132209.stm


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## Rahul Sapariya (2 Mar 2012)

doctornige said:


> For isotonic, I just do this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/healthy_eating/features/newsid_2132000/2132209.stm


 
I find the powerade zero to be refreshing. I don't like the taste of water if I have to drink it over and over again for a long ride. Instead something that is just like water but with flavour. A dilute would be good as well. Maybe it is just me who doesn't like drinking water on its own but I prefer a bit of flavour. I wouldn't buy powerade zero though because it is expensive. Just buy a 2 litre bottle of vimto...lovely stuff.


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## doctornige (2 Mar 2012)

Rahul, the point here is that water contains no sugar. On the bike, you actually need a bit of sugar to get a quick energy boost. The added salt sets up the right osmotic gradient in your gut to transfer the sugar and water as fast as possible. As Pocari Sweat ads say, "Water is not enough."


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## Rahul Sapariya (3 Mar 2012)

doctornige said:


> Rahul, the point here is that water contains no sugar. On the bike, you actually need a bit of sugar to get a quick energy boost. The added salt sets up the right osmotic gradient in your gut to transfer the sugar and water as fast as possible. As Pocari Sweat ads say, "Water is not enough."


 
I remember when I did Lands End to John O'Groats a few months back and I lived off vimto because there water was rubbish. I know some people need energy packs and what not but from my own experience, I find that just having something tasty works. The evening before, just carbo-load yourself. I used 60 pot noodles for my trip (Bombay Badboys). I think I may be unhealthy haha.


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## doctornige (3 Mar 2012)

Rahul Sapariya said:


> I remember when I did Lands End to John O'Groats a few months back and I lived off vimto because there water was rubbish. I know some people need energy packs and what not but from my own experience, I find that just having something tasty works. The evening before, just carbo-load yourself. I used 60 pot noodles for my trip (Bombay Badboys). I think I may be unhealthy haha.



My staple isotonic is the BBC recipe with Vimto. My little boy has it as his 'wine', so there is always a bottle in the house. I measured off the volume of my bottle into a jug, did the calculation based on the BBC advice and then scored the bottle (gently) with a kitchen knife at the cordial fill level, and ran over the groove with a Sharpie pen. Making the drinks is now a snap. I just pop in Vimto to the score line, fill to the neck with water, add a decent pinch of table salt, shake and stick it in the fridge ready to go..


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## Rahul Sapariya (3 Mar 2012)

doctornige said:


> My staple isotonic is the BBC recipe with Vimto. My little boy has it as his 'wine', so there is always a bottle in the house. I measured off the volume of my bottle into a jug, did the calculation based on the BBC advice and then scored the bottle (gently) with a kitchen knife at the cordial fill level, and ran over the groove with a Sharpie pen. Making the drinks is now a snap. I just pop in Vimto to the score line, fill to the neck with water, add a decent pinch of table salt, shake and stick it in the fridge ready to go..


 
Making the groove on the bottle is a brilliant idea. No idea why I didn't think of it. Everytime I make a dilute in a bottle, it always tastes different. Sometimes it's a good one, sometimes it's crap. Now I can get a good mix all the time. Thanks


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## Pikey (4 Mar 2012)

Biggest rip off - avid disc brakes.

Mine look nice on the old war horse, but I might as well just stick my fingers in the spokes to slow me going down hill.

Bled three times in three weeks too.


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## Speedywheelsjeans (4 Mar 2012)

doctornige said:


> Rahul, the point here is that water contains no sugar. On the bike, you actually need a bit of sugar to get a quick energy boost. The added salt sets up the right osmotic gradient in your gut to transfer the sugar and water as fast as possible. As Pocari Sweat ads say, "Water is not enough."


 
I use lucozade energy gels... I rip the top off, eat it then chug water. I find water more refreshing to sip at during rides, then every 45 minutes an energy gel restores what im losing,


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## Rahul Sapariya (4 Mar 2012)

Speedywheelsjeans said:


> I use lucozade energy gels... I rip the top off, eat it then chug water. I find water more refreshing to sip at during rides, then every 45 minutes an energy gel restores what im losing,


 
I can't do those gels, taste to weird for myself. I know you aren't really supposed to taste it but I always accidently do. Can't they make a chocolate flavoured one that actually tastes like a chocolate?


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## col (4 Mar 2012)

Those back covers for Ipods, the packaging must cost more than the actual cover to make.


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## Norm (4 Mar 2012)

totallyfixed said:


> Why did I know someone would say that? I was talking average car tyre prices, you can pay over £100 for a tub and for my 195 car tyres I pay about £60. The point I was making which I'm sure you know, was the amount of material used in both, yet prices especially for a small [ecological] car can be similar.


And, as I'm sure you know, the material costs are a small percentage of the total costs. R&D per £60 car tyre would be half of nothing (low investment, very high volumes), whereas the amount spent to make a difference on a £100 tub would be written off over a relatively very small number of units. 



Rahul Sapariya said:


> 'Park tools' tools. Over priced and some of the stuff they have are rubbish. I find their spoke keys to be rubbish. I find using the m part pro spoke keys or equivalent to be much better. I may be biased because I generally hate pricey things and tools are just an extension of it but from my own experience as a bike mechanic, park tools do nothing special when you pay twice as much for the same tool.


The Park Tools that I have a lovely and worth the (few quid) extra over disposable stuff, IMO.

It's the same for all tools, though. I've some Snap-Ons which I got from an obsessive friend and I enjoy stuff on the cars breaking so I have an excuse to use them. I have a 15 year old Leatherman multi tool and, again, it was a bit more than the alternatives but it's travelled a gazillion miles, been used for a bazillion things and it still goes everywhere with me.


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## Rahul Sapariya (4 Mar 2012)

Norm said:


> And, as I'm sure you know, the material costs are a small percentage of the total costs. R&D per £60 car tyre would be half of nothing (low investment, very high volumes), whereas the amount spent to make a difference on a £100 tub would be written off over a relatively very small number of units.
> 
> 
> The Park Tools that I have a lovely and worth the (few quid) extra over disposable stuff, IMO.
> ...


 
There are some good things that park tools do but they aren't patented or anything so other companies just copy them, and sometimes the copies are better. The amount of park tools plastic tyre levers I've gone through is insane...that's how they make their money. Of course I use these tools day-in day-out so if it is for personal use, use whatever you find comfortable but for using for a bike shop, I'd find cheaper alternatives because the tools will break eventually. One thing that they do well is the chain splitter...the fact that you can unscrew the pin and replace it with a new one, brilliant idea because they will break at some point.


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## GrasB (4 Mar 2012)

Norm said:


> The Park Tools that I have a lovely and worth the (few quid) extra over disposable stuff, IMO.


Park Tool - buy once, use forever. Can say I've ever broken a park tool, can't say the same for any other brand I've purchased.


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## Rahul Sapariya (4 Mar 2012)

GrasB said:


> Park Tool - buy once, use forever. Can say I've ever broken a park tool, can't say the same for any other brand I've purchased.


 
On an individual using park tools, it will probably last a lifetime but when it is used multiple times a day, I'd give the lifespan of the tools a year at the most. Because they break every year and they are twice the price of normal tools, you'd rather get slightly cheaper versions. For me, I compare park tools with apple, stupidly expensive and people buy them because the brand is one that you can brag to your friends but actually does less than other competitors. For instand, their high priced toolkit, the £7000 one, well you could save yourself about half the money if you spent some of it buying slightly cheaper ones, and the quality is the same. Some things, park tool do make the best but for me, park tool are highly over-rated.


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## GrasB (5 Mar 2012)

Not found another brand that hasn't broken with light usage... so which slightly cheaper brands don't break?


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## screenman (5 Mar 2012)

Pensions.


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## jayonabike (5 Mar 2012)

ColinJ said:


> I know people who swear by Assos!
> 
> (I'd rather swear _at_ it! )


 
I'm a shade under 6ft 3'' with long arms. I have bought a couple of long sleeved cycling tops, one was a little under £60 the other a little more & I'm forever pulling the sleeves down over my wrists as they ride up as I'm cycling along. It gets really annoying and cold wrists are not nice in the winter! My Mrs was lucky enough to get a decent Christmas bonus this year and said I could have something cycling related that we couldn't normally afford. I looked at Assos tops and saw this with what looked like extra long arms so I ordered it. What a fantastic jacket, so comfortable, it doesn't move at all, I haven't had to pull the sleeves down once. Its is thinner than my other tops but warmer than the other two. I had a bit of inheritance money recently and on the strength of the top I ordered I bought an Assos wind jacket, again with extra long arms, and no flapping like the jacket which it replaced (broken zip, couldn't fix it). So for me Assos clothing isn't a rip off.


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## ColinJ (5 Mar 2012)

jayonabike said:


> So for me Assos clothing isn't a rip off.


As I wrote before - I know people who absolutely love it and spend a fortune on it.

I've never been able to afford Assos, and even if I could, I'd rather spend the money on a bike or cycling holidays. I've been able to find cycling clothing which suits me for much less than the cost of Assos.

It's not that I don't like expensive stuff, it''s just that I'm tight! I have a pair of SIDI shoes which would have been pretty expensive at full RRP but they had been sitting unsold in a bike shop and I managed to get them for £30!


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## VamP (5 Mar 2012)

doctornige said:


> Heh. I use one to get from point A to point A, with variable distance and difficulty in between.


 
Ha, that's nothing.

I take two of mine, in a car, to a location B quite a distance from A, whereupon I place one on the ground, and ride the other one around in circles until finished, unless circumstances dictate that I change bikes. I then use the car to take them both back to point A.


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## Rahul Sapariya (5 Mar 2012)

GrasB said:


> Not found another brand that hasn't broken with light usage... so which slightly cheaper brands don't break?


 
Anything really. As long as it isn't from a pound shop and you are comfortable using it, then it's all good. At the shop I work at, a lot of our tools are over 5 years old. And the amount of park tools stuff out of the 5 year old stuff? Probably about 5% of it is. The rest broke of the park tools stuff was replaced because of wear and tear.


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