# Safety Recall : SRAM road hydraulic brake recall – stop use immediately



## Mr Haematocrit (14 Dec 2013)

SRAM is requesting that customers who have bicycles equipped with SRAM hydraulic road disc or hydraulic road rim brakes stop using the bike immediately. _*This recall applies to all products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory.*_
_*
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...ulic-brake-recall-stop-use-immediately-39316/*_


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## Mr Haematocrit (14 Dec 2013)

As someone who has had faultless experience from Shimano Dura-Ace products for many years and outstanding service I must admit that my first experience of SRAM Red is less than impressive so far, various parts of the groupset have been called back, this in the third time.
Im starting to wonder if SRAM have any quality control?


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## Andrew_P (14 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> As someone who has had faultless experience from Shimano Dura-Ace products for many years and outstanding service I must admit that my first experience of SRAM Red is less than impressive so far, various parts of the groupset have been called back, this in the third time.
> Im starting to wonder if SRAM have any quality control?


SRAM Red 11speed in general or just the hydro stuff?


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## Mr Haematocrit (14 Dec 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> SRAM Red 11speed in general or just the hydro stuff?



The SRAM red has had one recall and the hydro components two recalls so far,
considering the cost involved and the fact its delaying me from getting my new bike, I'm a little less than impressed.
I have not received an explaination, apollogy, gesture gift or anything.

I'm aware that if you run the very latest and greatest, you are effectively a beta tester which I don't mind (been that for many years) but calling a product back three times, twice for the exactly same thing is pretty poor and I have questions such as 'was the pproduct tested enough prior to release' and 'what did you do during the first recall, and why is it not working?' along with 'did you not test your fix for the first recall properly'
Information for the customer is not forthcoming. At this time they can't even tell me when I'm getting them back.

Ordered Di2 11 speed Dura-Ace to tide me over at this time.


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## fossyant (15 Dec 2013)

Shimano all the way. My DA 7400 has been faultless in 24 years. Can't get better than that.


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## Breedon (15 Dec 2013)

Thinking of getting sram red next year, starting to think I shouldn't


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## Dusty Bin (15 Dec 2013)

Breedon said:


> Thinking of getting sram red next year, starting to think I shouldn't



Why?


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## PeteXXX (15 Dec 2013)

The article quotes 'a loss of pressure on the master cylinder seals in sub freezing temperatures'


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## zizou (16 Dec 2013)

TRP and Shimano have also had recalls on their road discs in recent months. You would think that with the technology now being mature on mtbs that the design challenges to adapt it to road use wouldnt be particularly big.


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Dec 2013)

One is tempted to say that recalls affecting top o' the range groupsets which impact upon a relatively small group of non-professional cyclists and cause them angst are almost the very definition of a "1st world problem" 

I do hope my local coffee shop doesn't run out of soya lattes again today.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Dec 2013)

PeteXXX said:


> The article quotes 'a loss of pressure on the master cylinder seals in sub freezing temperatures'



The system has been called back for once already for 'a loss of pressure on the master cylinder seals in sub freezing temperatures' . This makes me ask the following questions....

Why did the first recall not address the issues?
Why was it discovered that the issue still persisted once the components had been sent back to the customer? 

Was the fix identified in the first recall tested sufficiently against this issue?
What makes SRAM confident that a second recall addresses the issues and what can be done to reassure customers?
Why SRAM customers or retailers have not been notified and have to find out from the press and contact SRAM themselves?
Why are SRAM staff are unable to provide the same consistent message to customers?
Why SRAM is unable to tell me when I can expect to have my brakes and shifters back, or even confirm that they have them.



Breedon said:


> Thinking of getting sram red next year, starting to think I shouldn't



I must admit that SRAM products have a great feel to them and look outstanding from the small experience I have had of riding them round my LBS and I am ultimately excited about seeing how the entire system compares to my usual choices (Dura-Ace Di2 with TRP Brakes).. I have no doubt that the system is going to be great (eventually)
My concern at this time is regarding SRAM as a company. The experiences so far with how they handle recall issues makes me question if they have the ability/desire to support their products. In the past 12 months I have had recalls issued by Specialized and TRP and both of these handled the problems exceptionally well with great communication and appreciated that it was inconvenient to the customer. SRAM on the other hand are acting as if it is inconvenient to them only.
My only advice is that if you are considering SRAM at this time, look for a well tested and widely used components as if you get any new technology and developments your paying to be part of their testing team for which customer service is lacking.


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## Dusty Bin (16 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> The system has been called back for once already for 'a loss of pressure on the master cylinder seals in sub freezing temperatures' . This makes me ask the following questions....
> 
> Why did the first recall not address the issues?
> Why was it discovered that the issue still persisted once the components had been sent back to the customer?
> ...




The first recall was 'advisory'. When SRAM discovered the problem was widespread, a second, full 'stop riding' recall was issued. To say that this consitutes two recalls for the same problem fails to understand the process. SRAM communicates through its dealer network, so you should be asking your dealer these questions, and they should be asking SRAM.




Mr Haematocrit said:


> I must admit that SRAM products have a great feel to them and look outstanding from the small experience I have had of riding them round my LBS and I am ultimately excited about seeing how the entire system compares to my usual choices (Dura-Ace Di2 with TRP Brakes).. I have no doubt that the system is going to be great (eventually)
> My concern at this time is regarding SRAM as a company. *The experiences so far with how they handle recall issues makes me question if they have the ability/desire to support their products*. In the past 12 months I have had recalls issued by Specialized and TRP and both of these handled the problems exceptionally well with great communication and appreciated that it was inconvenient to the customer. SRAM on the other hand are acting as if it is inconvenient to them only.
> My only advice is that if you are considering SRAM at this time, look for a well tested and widely used components as if you get any new technology and developments your paying to be part of their testing team for which customer service is lacking.



My own experience of a SRAM recall (several years ago for a Force caliper issue) was nothing short of excellent


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> The first recall was 'advisory'. When SRAM discovered the problem was widespread, a second, full 'stop riding' recall was issued. To say that this consitutes two recalls for the same problem fails to understand the process. SRAM communicates through its dealer network, so you should be asking your dealer these questions, and they should be asking SRAM.



I have communication from SRAM stating that the very first recall was completely necessary. I was 'advised' not to use the brakes
This year I have experienced recalls from, Specialized and TRP which were both handled in a professional manner with the customer informed throughout and apologies were made for inconvenience

My dealer found out about the recall the same way as I did, in the media and when I push my dealer for answers and information he has to contact them, they are not communicating or updating him regularly.
I have faith in my LBS and they are doing their very best to support me, I am even getting Di2 from them at an incredible price to tide me over.
SRAM can't even give me an ETA on when I'm going to get my stuff back or applogy for any inconvenience caused.

I'm exceptionally happy you had a wonderful experience with SRAM product recalls, but I have not had the same experience.


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## dan_bo (16 Dec 2013)

Have they only just realised thet they're terminally ugly?


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Dec 2013)

dan_bo said:


> Have they only just realised thet they're terminally ugly?



Ugly they are, but they really do feel so nice to hold, I am really taken with that aspect of them.


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Dec 2013)

Been advised that I should have them back by February 
No offer of a tempoary alternative solution, sign of an apology yet. I really feel for those people who do not have other bikes to ride.


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## fossyant (17 Dec 2013)

Can't be doing 'ugly' on a road bike. It's a sin !


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## J1780 (17 Dec 2013)

3 recalls 2 of which are for the same thing. I'd say the customer is the product tester. That's terrible service. Personally I'd skip sram altogether because of this. Can't be that complicated its hardly new technology.


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Dec 2013)

fossyant said:


> Can't be doing 'ugly' on a road bike. It's a sin !



 What you heard is not true !!!
Im beautiful, I am..... my mum told me so


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## fossyant (17 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> What you heard is not true !!!
> Im beautiful, I am..... my mum told me so


 
Haa haa, yup, forgot about my lump on the bikes ! Oops - they look great when I get off though !


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## Andrew_P (17 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Been advised that I should have them back by February
> No offer of a tempoary alternative solution, sign of an apology yet. I really feel for those people who do not have other bikes to ride.


I am so sorry plus a chance to register your bike..


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## Mr Haematocrit (17 Dec 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> I am so sorry plus a chance to register your bike..



Thanks for posting that, I was not aware of that 
I'm really pleased about that, all I really wanted was an understanding from the company that it was not great and knowledge of what had happened.
A little goes a long way imho

Interesting thought that they seem to have a plan for the disc systems, but this is obviously not applicable for the rim brakes. I expect I will have to simply wait for the improved hydraulics.


> The replacement plan may first be a mechanical disc followed by improved hydraulics..


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## Andrew_P (17 Dec 2013)

Too much cost to send out SRAM red mechanical brakes and shifters, but if I were them that where I would be looking or even Rival/Apex as temporary fix. The Hydro is not even close to production by the looks of it. I suppose the customers who invested in a bike with Hydro are most likely going to own other bikes, but not the point really.


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## Hacienda71 (17 Dec 2013)

Given Sram's history in the MTB world and their ownership of Avid, it is kind of suprising that they seem to have had such an issue with the technology.


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## Dusty Bin (17 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Given Sram's history in the MTB world and their ownership of Avid, it is kind of suprising that they seem to have had such an issue with the technology.



ok - to put things into perspective....

The recall I was affected by related to Force calipers. The Ti mounting bolt turned out to be made from the wrong grade/spec of Ti stock and because of that, was prone to failure. The supplier of the Ti material was a long way down the supply chain and it only came to light once SRAM had investigated a couple of failures. So SRAM had specified the correct grade material, the supplier had agreed to supply the correct grade material, but didn't. A soon as a problem was identified, SRAM moved to correct it. I wouldn't be suprised if something similar has happened in this situation, but it's no reason to get upset..


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## Hacienda71 (17 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> ok - to put things into perspective....
> 
> The recall I was affected by related to Force calipers. The Ti mounting bolt turned out to be made from the wrong grade/spec of Ti stock and because of that, was prone to failure. The supplier of the Ti material was a long way down the supply chain and it only came to light once SRAM had investigated a couple of failures. So SRAM had specified the correct grade material, the supplier had agreed to supply the correct grade material, but didn't. A soon as a problem was identified, SRAM moved to correct it. I wouldn't be suprised if something similar has happened in this situation, but it's no reason to get upset..



My post wasn't related to what you said. It was in relation to the issue with the new SRAM Red hydraulic set up Mr H has had an issue with and the fact SRAM own Avid who have considerable experience in hydraulic brakes from their MTB brakes. 
I ride with a SRAM setup on my main road bike and despite having to have a shifter and brake caliper replaced under warranty in the first year, I rather like them. I am not "upset.." Thanks for worrying though.


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## Dusty Bin (17 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> My post wasn't related to what you said. It was in relation to the issue with the new SRAM Red hydraulic set up Mr H has had an issue with and the fact SRAM own Avid who have considerable experience in hydraulic brakes from their MTB brakes.



I know that - but the point still applies. SRAM has a supply chain. All SRAM can do is specify the correct grade of rubber seal, mounting bolt, etc and then rely on its suppliers to deliver. Mostly, they do - but when they dont, this happens.


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## Hacienda71 (17 Dec 2013)

Setting aside the supplier in the chain unilaterlly changing a component material, the " We investigated these failures and determined that the seal material we were using for the brake lever lost its performance characteristics in the extreme cold" comment from the chairman would imply that there was a design flaw that, given Avid's experience in MTBing is to me at least surprising. Just my opinion.


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## Dusty Bin (17 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Setting aside the supplier in the chain unilaterlly changing a component material, the " We investigated these failures and determined that the seal material we were using for the brake lever lost its performance characteristics in the extreme cold" comment from the chairman would imply that there was a design flaw that, given Avid's experience in MTBing is to me at least surprising. Just my opinion.



I don't see that it implies a design flaw. It only implies that the material used is not capable of operating effectively below a certain temperature. If SRAM specced the wrong material, then it *is* a design flaw. If the material used was not according to SRAM's spec, it is *not* a design flaw. Until you know the answer to that, nobody can call it a design flaw.


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## Hacienda71 (17 Dec 2013)

Yes in the statement from SRAM they admit that the material they have used fails in certain conditions, which they have replicated in further testing. It is a design flaw and they are looking into it. There is an additional issue with a supplier changing a material.


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## ColinJ (17 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> I don't see that it implies a design flaw. It only implies that the material used is not capable of operating effectively below a certain temperature. If SRAM specced the wrong material, then it is a design flaw. If the material used was not according to SRAM's spec, it is not a design flaw. Until you know the answer to that, nobody can call it a design flaw.


*It is worse than just a temperature problem* ... It is no good just avoiding riding in freezing temperatures because an update on that SRAM site reveals that the cold merely accelerates the development of an underlying problem. The seals can suddenly fail at any temperature with catastrophic loss of braking!


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

ColinJ said:


> *It is worse than just a temperature problem* ... It is no good just avoiding riding in freezing temperatures because an update on that SRAM site reveals that the cold merely accelerates the development of an underlying problem. The seals can suddenly fail at any temperature with catastrophic loss of braking!



So it sounds like a material spec problem, rather than a design flaw. Unless someone was daft enough to spec a type of rubber which was not compatible with hydraulic fluid, which for a hydraulic brake manufactuer, would be tantamount to negligence. Which brings me back to what I said earlier...


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## Hacienda71 (18 Dec 2013)

> If SRAM specced the wrong material, then it *is* a design flaw


 


> So it sounds like a material spec problem, rather than a design flaw


 
PMSL


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## ColinJ (18 Dec 2013)

If I found myself slamming into a huge boulder on a technical descent because my brakes had just failed, the last thing I'd be worried about would be whether it was due to a design flaw or a material specification flaw!


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## Keith Oates (18 Dec 2013)

Stick with Shimano and you will have less problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Svendo (18 Dec 2013)

<pedantry> fewer problems </pedantry>


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> PMSL



Congrats on taking two quotes out of context for the sake of a cheap gag. A 'supply issue' - did you not read my earlier comments?


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## Andrew_P (18 Dec 2013)

The whole issue seems to stem from poor QC of SRAM component suppliers, looks like they have given them one spec, and the supplier has changed it to make some extra $$. Not that unusual hence you have to have tight QC, which I would have thought SRAM knew through experience.


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## albion (18 Dec 2013)

Often the case with advanced technology.

Being ahead of the game is often an unknown quantity, so here the maximum 500 people round the world who have them will probably get new for old.


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## Hacienda71 (18 Dec 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Congrats on taking two quotes out of context for the sake of a cheap gag. A 'supply issue' - did you not read my earlier comments?


Yes I read your posts,how out of context? You said it was a design flaw if they specd the wrong material. They had admitted in the published statement they, not the supplier had spec'd the wrong material. i.e. That is how it was designed by them, and you then said it was not a design flaw it was a spec problem. Your two posts totally contradict each other. I really can't be bothered with this but you seem to be intent on having the last word, so to reiterate, my point is that to me it is surprising that a manufacturer with the experience of hydraulic brakes of SRAM and it's associated companies from their mountain biking background, released a product with ended up with such a critical problem. Mountain bikes operate in extreme conditions so to me the temperature the initial failures took place is irrelevant. This remains my view. If you had read the statement from Sram before responding to my post in the first instance, you would have realised that the issue was more than just a supplier problem as this was stated. It is your perogative to disagree, but just say I disagree. It is easier all round and stops threads ending up in silly tit for tat pedantic exchanges.


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## Paul99 (18 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Yes I read your posts,how out of context? You said it was a design flaw if they specd the wrong material. They had admitted in the published statement they, not the supplier had spec'd the wrong material. i.e. That is how it was designed by them, and you then said it was not a design flaw it was a spec problem. Your two posts totally contradict each other. I really can't be bothered with this but you seem to be intent on having the last word, so to reiterate, my point is that to me it is surprising that a manufacturer with the experience of hydraulic brakes of SRAM and it's associated companies from their mountain biking background, released a product with ended up with such a critical problem. Mountain bikes operate in extreme conditions so to me the temperature the initial failures took place is irrelevant. This remains my view. If you had read the statement from Sram before responding to my post in the first instance, you would have realised that the issue was more than just a supplier problem as this was stated. It is your perogative to disagree, but just say I disagree. It is easier all round and stops threads ending up in silly tit for tat pedantic exchanges.


 Can you stop teasing the SRAM fanboys please. 
It's not SRAM's fault. I blame Wiggle.


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Yes I read your posts,how out of context? You said it was a design flaw if they specd the wrong material. They had admitted in the published statement they, not the supplier had spec'd the wrong material. i.e. That is how it was designed by them, and you then said it was not a design flaw it was a spec problem.



SRAM's statements do not say anything of the sort, unfortunately. If you can find me the bit where it says that, I'd be happy to see it.


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## Hacienda71 (18 Dec 2013)

Quote from the Sram President which Andrew_P linked to before I posted.

"Last weekend a bigger alarm went off. There were a number of reports of brake failures at cyclocross races in sub freezing conditions. We investigated these failures and determined that the seal material we were using for the brake lever lost its performance characteristics in the extreme cold. We were able to duplicate the failure mode through testing."


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## Rob3rt (18 Dec 2013)

Keith Oates said:


> Stick with Shimano and you will have less problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



and a heavier, uglier bike....


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## Dusty Bin (18 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> Quote from the Sram President which Andrew_P linked to before I posted.
> 
> "Last weekend a bigger alarm went off. There were a number of reports of brake failures at cyclocross races in sub freezing conditions. We investigated these failures and determined that the seal material we were using for the brake lever lost its performance characteristics in the extreme cold. We were able to duplicate the failure mode through testing."



Sorry, where is the evidence of a 'design flaw' in there? All it states is that the seal material is not up to the job. There is no attempt to explain why. Sounds like you know more than SRAM does about this.


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## Andrew_P (18 Dec 2013)

"In October 2013 at an OEM ride camp in Germany we discovered a quality issue with our new Road Hydraulic brakes. We analyzed the root cause and determined *that we had a bad part that was generated from an unapproved process change by one of our part suppliers.* This affected about 4,000 systems of the 38,000 systems that we had manufactured to that point. We were able to track the date range of the process change and put a fence around most of the product before it got to consumers."

I took this was for the second recall as well, it is not clear from the statement


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## Hacienda71 (18 Dec 2013)

The critical bit of the quote to me is "Last weekend a bigger alarm went off"
They said use this material. They say now it is not upto the job. Therefore the design has failed. It may require a very small adjustment in material used, but you might have expected that Sram would have had a better understanding of materials used in hydraulic brake systems. Surely they would use materials they would have had experience in, which is the only point my original post was making. 
I totaly accept that the other issue they refer to at the start of the statement is due to the supply chain as they state and as you rightly point out


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## Mr Haematocrit (18 Dec 2013)

After a number of days I have been offered a refund on the brakes, but not the entire group set. Without the hydro brakes I do not want the groupset I would run Di2 11 speed. If I want hydro I have to wait with no eta
I have sent SRAM emails, tweets, and more and only got a 'generic' response when the cycling press who have been interviewing me got involved.

At this time SRAM are not able to tell me what they are going to do to address the issues and at this time I believe they have not worked that out.


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## Mr Haematocrit (18 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> They said use this material. They say now it is not upto the job. Therefore the design has failed. It may require a very small adjustment in material used, but you might have expected that Sram would have had a better understanding of materials used in hydraulic brake systems. Surely they would use materials they would have had experience in, which is the only point my original post was making.



Totally agree, having said that you would also think they would use similar materials in different breaking products 

Tip of iceberg perhaps?


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## Mr Haematocrit (18 Dec 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> "In October 2013 at an OEM ride camp in Germany we discovered a quality issue with our new Road Hydraulic brakes. We analyzed the root cause and determined *that we had a bad part that was generated from an unapproved process change by one of our part suppliers.* This affected about 4,000 systems of the 38,000 systems that we had manufactured to that point. We were able to track the date range of the process change and put a fence around most of the product before it got to consumers."
> 
> I took this was for the second recall as well, it is not clear from the statement



I was informed exactly that reasoning for the first recall not the second


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## green1 (19 Dec 2013)

Hacienda71 said:


> The critical bit of the quote to me is "Last weekend a bigger alarm went off"
> They said use this material. They say now it is not upto the job. Therefore the design has failed. It may require a very small adjustment in material used, but you might have expected that Sram would have had a better understanding of materials used in hydraulic brake systems. Surely they would use materials they would have had experience in, which is the only point my original post was making.


Why? If I need an o-ring material I go to the rubber seal manufacturers and tell them my operating and system requirements are and they tell me what I should use. The problem is if you then take it out of its designed operating window (ala Challenger) in which case SRAM spec'ed its requirements incorrectly or they didn't and the supplier has given duff information/materials. Spec'ing Rubbers in any design can be a complete nightmare because of this.


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## Mr Haematocrit (19 Dec 2013)

green1 said:


> Why? If I need an o-ring material I go to the rubber seal manufacturers and tell them my operating and system requirements are and they tell me what I should use.



SRAM have recalled the product twice as such the manufacturers and SRAM have had one opportunity to fix it already, yet have yet to do so or determine what they are going to do, a complete redesign of the system is one possibility which I have been made aware off, but at this time SRAM just don't know themselves... Not for a moment do I believe this is just an issue with seal rubber specification as this could easily and cheaply be addressed before the end of April 2014 which is the time frame currently being told to customers.... It looks to me as SRAM are releasing products not fit for purpose and using customers for testing purposes.


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## Mr Haematocrit (19 Dec 2013)

After a large number of tweets, emails, filling out the form on the recall page, informing SRAM I was going to register a domain to document my experiences, and that I intended to leaflet the London Cycle show in Febuary, not to mention being interviewed by the press I am happy to report that SRAM for some reason decided to give me some answers and respond to me. 

1) The first recall documented at http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/sram-road-hydraulic-brake-recall/ states the following : "SRAM has identified a technical issue with respect to a narrow production range of its RED 22 and S-700 Road Hydraulic road brakes. This is a performance and safety concern. There are no reported failures in the field."

*QUESTION*: - What was the concern over SRAM has never stated, I sent my brakes back and was not advised of what had been done to them can they tell me?

*SRAM Response :* If your brakes were replaced at the time of the original recall short date range, those brakes would have been completely replaced. The US CPSC requires us to obtain all physical samples of effected brake units, so it can be proven they have been taken out of the marketplace. These brakes would not have been re-worked. The original issue we discovered was that a supplier changed a manufacturing process on the brake lever body, for the described serialized date range only. This change led to a shifter body that was outside of our specification.

2) The second recall documented at http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/brake-recall-clarification/ states : "Our analysis shows the cold temperature accelerates the failure of the seal, but that also the sealing could fail in normal temperatures."

*QUESTION*: - Was the very first recall related in any way to the seal? and if so what prevent SRAM from addressing it the first time? and what can SRAM do to convince me that they are capable of fixing it this time? - SRAM has also not provided any information regarding what they are going to do to fix the product, or the time frames expected.

*SRAM Response* : We decided to expand the recall after reports of brake failure in the field outside of the original date range. We still are in process of root cause analysis, and have no updates at this time for specific failure cause. We have seen several kinds of failure types, all which manifest in “brake levers pulling to the handlebar”, or loss of brake function. The seal is something that we have reports on, however, we don’t have a full analysis as to the exact failure reason yet. We will not be able to quote a timeframe for functional hydraulic replacement until the root cause analysis is complete. Once we do, we will be diligently working on replacement units for the marketplace. We understand this open timeframe is unacceptable for many customers. [/quote]

3) SRAM created a web page to track this issue located at http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com this page features a contact email address brakerecall@sram.com. SRAM also use social media like twitter.

*QUESTION*: - At this time I have received one generic prefabricated response from my attempts at communicating with the company through the form on the website, twitter, email and when I called head office I was put on hold for a period of time and the line eventually went dead. What perception do you think I have about SRAM based on these experiences and do you think they are just. I am also curious to know what SRAM are going to do to make it up to me.

*SRAM Response*: We are working alongside the US CPSC and other global product safety organizations to register this as an official recall, and to abide by local laws and regulations in doing so. Some of these regulations specify when and how we make comment on compensation. Please note that we are working hard to be sure that you as a consumer are made whole. The purpose of setting up the brake recall website is to offer updates as soon as they become available on our brake recall website, and via the registration contacts we’ve received- including that of details on compensation. We will be sending out updated communication shortly on compensation for labor, getting back on the bike in the interim as we finalize a permanent solution, etc.

I'm reasonably happy to know what's going on, its all I wanted in the first place, now I have to decide if I should give SRAM the opportunity to try to win me over, or should I run into the warm comfortable arms of Shimano Di2


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## Keith Oates (20 Dec 2013)

That's a no brainer of a decision, go for the Di2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Andrew_P (22 Dec 2013)

http://road.cc/content/news/103990-sram-outlines-hydro-disc-recall-replacement-plan 

£150 Cheque or I assume free mechanical Red 22 brakes and levers.


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Dec 2013)

I had that very question clarified, you exchange the mechanical when the hydro becomes availiable.
In effect your given the difference in money between the mechanical and hydro or you get a loan and exchange when they become available. You ddon't get to keep the mechanical. Retailers and bike shops are being paid labour costs, customers get information without having to flight for it, and bugger all else.. Yay


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## Andrew_P (22 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I had that very question clarified, you exchange the mechanical when the hydro becomes availiable.
> In effect your given the difference in money between the mechanical and hydro or you get a loan and exchange when they become available. You ddon't get to keep the mechanical. Retailers and bike shops are being paid labour costs, customers get information without having to flight for it, and bugger all else.. Yay


Sorry but that is shoot, what are they going to do with 3-4k of used and abused Red 22 levers and calliper's. When a company behaves like this it normally means that their bottom line is marginal, surely not the case with SRAM?


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## Mr Haematocrit (22 Dec 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> Sorry but that is s***, what are they going to do with 3-4k of used and abused Red 22 levers and calliper's. When a company behaves like this it normally means that their bottom line is marginal, surely not the case with SRAM?



I have no idea regarding the position of the company, but my own experiences continue to bring more questions than answers. I still can't believe that the felt it was acceptable to tell me to stop using my brakes, send them back without any other information at all. I would no mind if they said we are investigating the issue and at this time we don't have a solution, but they decided not to, they left customers hanging.
SRAM also decided to not respond to my tweets or emails until such time that I went to the media.
Im personally concerned for SRAM quality control and if my bike was not being built as a replica I would walk away from this fiasco.
At this time my brakes have gone back twice and I have recieved nothing more than an appology posted on a website. For spending £1300 with them the cynic in me for a little better treatment.


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## ColinJ (23 Dec 2013)

Here is an interesting description of how the cold-weather problem manifested itself. Cyclo-cross at zero degrees *F* - yikes!


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## snailracer (23 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I have no idea regarding the position of the company, but my own experiences continue to bring more questions than answers. *I still can't believe that the felt it was acceptable to tell me to stop using my brakes, send them back without any other information at all. *I would no mind if they said we are investigating the issue and at this time we don't have a solution, but they decided not to, *they left customers hanging*.
> *SRAM also decided to not respond to my tweets or emails until such time that I went to the media*.
> Im personally concerned for SRAM quality control and if my bike was not being built as a replica I would walk away from this fiasco.
> At this time my brakes have gone back twice and I have recieved nothing more than an appology posted on a website. For spending £1300 with them the cynic in me for a little better treatment.


I'm not sure where you are based, but in the UK the responsibility for unfit goods lies with the retailer and not the manufacturer (as would be the case in the USA). You are trying to have a dialogue direct with the manufacturer, who (obviously) does not have a system set up to deal directly with customers in the UK, and has no legal obligation to do so. The simplest solution would have been to get a refund from the retailer.


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Dec 2013)

snailracer said:


> I'm not sure where you are based, but in the UK the responsibility for unfit goods lies with the retailer and not the manufacturer (as would be the case in the USA). You are trying to have a dialogue directly with the manufacturer, who (obviously) does not have a system set up to deal directly with customers in the UK, and has no legal obligation to do so. The simplest solution would have been to get a refund from the retailer.



I'm located in London UK .
The recall notification came from the US it did not come through the UK distributor or the retailer, it is still being run and organized from the US. I made my LBS and UK distributor aware of the recall myself, prior to this they had no knowledge.
The UK distributor, my LBS attempted to find out what was going on, the time frames to enable options to be discussed with me and came up blank.
I have sent numerous emails to both my LBS and the UK Distributor asking for information and updates, I received what I believe are honest responses to my communications and was offered various options by them.
SRAM set up the domain http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/ for ALL customers, not just those in the US and I was directed by SRAM to use it.
using this website, the contact email on it, twitter and other sources SRAM ignored my communication and questions until such time I went to the cycling media. (received a response 9 minutes after the story broke)

The bike I have the hydro brakes on is a replica of the bike Cavendish rode in the 2013 TDF as such the group set and specifically the brakes are needed for this bike to have the desired appearance and the groupset/brakes was purchased specifically for this reason alone as such in an ideal world I would not want a refund.
I have no issue waiting for components, but for SRAM to take £1300 worth of kit of me, not once but twice and think it is acceptable to say nothing is pretty poor customer service. I would have appreciated someone being honest to me and stating SRAM need to investigate the issue further to know what action is required before moving forward. I could live with that and accept it, however they choose to treat customers with contempt.
The product has SRAM written on it, and as you say they may not have a legal obligation to deal with me, but imho they have a moral obligation to stand behind their products and part of this is reasuring the concerns of customers who use the website the company directs them to.

All I wanted was honest communication and a understanding of what is going on, so I could make an informed decision, SRAM failed massively in this regard.


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## snailracer (24 Dec 2013)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> I'm located in London UK .
> The recall notification came from the US it did not come through the UK distributor or the retailer, it is still being run and organized from the US. I made my LBS and UK distributor aware of the recall myself, prior to this they had no knowledge....
> 
> ...SRAM set up the domain http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/ for ALL customers, not just those in the US and I was directed by SRAM to use it...
> ...


If you choose to play by US rules, then you should understand that warranty terms are what the manufacturer provides. There is no standard for how well manufacturers deal with warranty issues, because that is considered a _competitive differentiator_ - when you buy brand X, then you have also bought brand X's after-sales support with it, and if that isn't good enough for you, don't buy brand X.

I have a lot of sympathy for you and hope it all works out. My comments aren't much use to you personally, but hopefully they will inform others who might be in a similar situation of deciding whether to pursue warranty claims through the retailer vs. the manufacturer.


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## Mr Haematocrit (13 Jan 2014)

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/hydror-recall-will-cost-sram-10-15-million-39519/



> SRAM's complete recall of all its hydraulic road brakes will cost the company between $10 and $15 million, according to SRAM president Stan Day.



Lot of money.... But the people like myself currently waiting for brakes (_including the mechanical loan replacements_) are less than sympathetic.. SRAM have taken my money, taken my brakes and shifters and left me high and dry at the moment, without anything.


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## Andrew_P (15 Jan 2014)

Is this a LOL moment or have I been whooshed? Go without until April or go mechanical and get 150 euro refunded? To me, that's not trying very hard?

http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/january-15-update/


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## Mr Haematocrit (15 Jan 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> Is this a LOL moment or have I been whooshed? Go without until April or go mechanical and get 150 euro refunded? To me, that's not trying very hard?
> 
> http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/january-15-update/



It's pretty much a LOL moment. I was expecting my mechanical replacement brakes last week and they still have not given them to me yet as such I have no belief that SRAM are capable of addressing this issue and making the product widely available by the end of April.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...ic-road-brake-system-expected-in-april-39563/


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## Andrew_P (15 Jan 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> It's pretty much a LOL moment. I was expecting my mechanical replacement brakes last week and they still have not given them to me yet as such I have no belief that SRAM are capable of addressing this issue and making the product widely available by the end of April.
> 
> http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...ic-road-brake-system-expected-in-april-39563/


SHAM lol. . Am I reading it right though, if you take the mechanical they are not a loan? You either take the mechanical and £125 or wait. That's how it reads not that the mechanical are loan units anymore?


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## Mr Haematocrit (15 Jan 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> SHAM lol. . Am I reading it right though, if you take the mechanical they are not a loan? You either take the mechanical and £125 or wait. That's how it reads not that the mechanical are loan units anymore?



The offer I've had on the table is a set of mechanical brakes and the difference back in cash, or mechanical brakes on loan and hydro brakes when they become available. At this time I have no brakes at all and my blikes stuck at the LBS.

Thought the SHAM comment was appropiate after the frustration and experience I'm having.. Lol


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## Andrew_P (15 Jan 2014)

I would take them on loan and run the feckers in to the ground. What they going to do with a few thousand second hand calipers? (Red 22 mechanicals are lovely brakes though!)


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## alecstilleyedye (16 Jan 2014)

fossyant said:


> Can't be doing 'ugly' on a road bike. It's a sin !


which is why my latest steed is full campag...


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## Mr Haematocrit (26 Jan 2014)

SRAM have still to provide owners with replacement brakes, mechanical, hydraulic or otherwise.
Two months in and I still have nothing at all to show for my money.

SRAM recall procedure is becoming a nightmare.


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## Peteaud (26 Jan 2014)

PR Disaster.


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## Mr Haematocrit (5 Feb 2014)

20th of December 2013 SRAM announced that customers would be provided with Mechanical replacements as a temporary solution

15th of January 2014 SRAM announced


> We want to update you on progress with our Road Hydraulic Brake Recall. As we have previously announced, we are offering you a mechanical brake system installed at our cost at your favorite Dealer. These systems are being delivered into the market beginning this week. Please contact your Dealer so that they can get the proper parts on order, and they can schedule your replacement.



5th of February 2014
I like many customers are still awaiting brakes as there is a shortage of RED mechanical.. I have now been without a bike since November and have received no updates at all which has not been chased for by myself. I have also received no compensation for distress they have caused me.


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## mr_cellophane (5 Feb 2014)

> in the US in sub-freezing temperatures. According to SRAM: “In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure


Didn't they study the reasons for the Challenger accident ?


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## Mr Haematocrit (7 Feb 2014)

Received an email from SRAM today which states the following.



> *Can I ride my SRAM road hydraulic brakes in warm weather?*
> No, the recall affects all SRAM road hydraulic brakes regardless of weather conditions. To ensure safety and operation, we ask that you stop riding immediately and register at www.sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com.



This is the third time the impact of the issue stated by SRAM has changed, the failures are not a result of low temperatures. I am personally curious to know the cause of the issue as SRAM seem to have gone quiet on this since attempting to point the blame at a supplier.



> *What happens to the interim mechanical brakes when the new hydraulic brakes are installed?*
> 
> In consultation with our Dealers, we have determined they will be returned to SRAM, refurbished, paired with derailleurs and made available to U23, Junior, and development cyclocross teams in the US, Europe and Asia. More information will be posted on our website regarding this program.



So there you have it SRAM keep my money, stop me from riding my bike for six months, do not apologize and do not compensate customers..


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## Peteaud (7 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Received an email from SRAM today which states the following.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is beyond belief.


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## Mr Haematocrit (7 Feb 2014)

Peteaud said:


> It is beyond belief.



Your preaching to the converted. If the bike was not being built as a replica of cav's bike I would have changed the group set by now.

As a matter of interest Shimano contacted me an offered me a discounted Dura-Ace Di2 11 speed to get me on the road, shows you the difference in approach from both companies.

I am gutted at the moment, I was really excited about getting the bike. I have so many nice touches to go on it like Cav's 2013 tour de-france bike number plate and more but the joy is now gone thanks to how SRAM have been treating me.


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## ColinJ (7 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> This is the third time the impact of the issue stated by SRAM has changed, the failures are not a result of low temperatures. I am personally curious to know the cause of the issue as SRAM seem to have gone quiet on this since attempting to point the blame at a supplier.


*I pointed that out in this thread on 17th December!* 



ColinJ said:


> *It is worse than just a temperature problem* ... It is no good just avoiding riding in freezing temperatures because an update on that SRAM site reveals that the cold merely accelerates the development of an underlying problem. The seals can suddenly fail at any temperature with catastrophic loss of braking!


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## Mr Haematocrit (7 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> *I pointed that out in this thread on 17th December!*



You can't tell me when I'm going to get some brakes can you.. Lol


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## ColinJ (7 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> You can't tell me when I'm going to get some brakes can you.. Lol


I can't, but I can say that I feel for you in this situation; it really should not have happened.

I could see SRAM going bust before they get to grips with the problem. (Hopefully that won't happen!)


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## 400bhp (8 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> I could see SRAM going bust before they get to grips with the problem. (Hopefully that won't happen!)



Why?


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## ColinJ (8 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> Why?


Because it is going to cost many millions to sort this fiasco out ...? 

SRAM estimate that nearly 20,000 bikes are involved and I can't see it costing much less than £500 a bike to fit replacement parts and pay out compensation. That is about £10 million. Perhaps they do have that kind of money to hand, but if they don't then they would be in trouble. Unless of course they are covered by insurance!


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## 400bhp (8 Feb 2014)

They are likely to be covered, product liability insurance.


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## Andrew_P (8 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> You can't tell me when I'm going to get some brakes can you.. Lol




Thought of you when this was posted a week or so ago!


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## Mr Haematocrit (8 Feb 2014)

Andrew_P said:


> Thought of you when this was posted a week or so ago!




Thanks
Nice to see that the money they have of mine is spent on quality video promotion... Lol


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## ColinJ (8 Feb 2014)

400bhp said:


> They are likely to be covered, product liability insurance.


Actually, now that I have bothered to think about it ... I wouldn't want to be in that kind of business without proper insurance cover. It would only have taken a couple of those brake failures to have resulted in serious injuries or deaths for vast compensation claims to follow!

Ok then - I wonder how much SRAM's premiums will go up after this ...


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## 400bhp (8 Feb 2014)

A lot!

I would imagine the insurer will probably be looking closely at their QC now.


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## potsy (8 Feb 2014)

Buy cheap buy twice


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Feb 2014)

Just been contacted by my bike shop who have confirmed my loan mechanical brakes have been delivered to the shop today.


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## ColinJ (9 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Just been contacted by my bike shop who have confirmed my loan mechanical brakes have been delivered to the shop today.


Phew, but how long did that take in the end!


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## Mr Haematocrit (9 Feb 2014)

ColinJ said:


> Phew, but how long did that take in the end!



Four months, two recalls, lots of emails...... Wonder how much longer it will take to get my hydro brakes.

Been so tragic, EastEnders are considering using the story next Christmas


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## PaulSecteur (10 Feb 2014)

Dare 


Mr Haematocrit said:


> Just been contacted by my bike shop who have confirmed my loan mechanical brakes have been delivered to the shop today.


Dare I ask if there is an ETA on the hydro brakes...?


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## Mr Haematocrit (10 Feb 2014)

PaulSecteur said:


> Dare
> 
> Dare I ask if there is an ETA on the hydro brakes...?



None to which I know off, the US is stated for end of April so I would guess around May for Europe, but I really don't know


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## Mr Haematocrit (28 Feb 2014)

Well it's the end of February and I'm still missing Hydro brakes. At this time rumours are going round suggesting August or September 2014 before I get to try them. 

Not bad considering I paid for them Nov 2013.  and still no mention of compensation.


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## Peteaud (28 Feb 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Well it's the end of February and I'm still missing Hydro brakes. At this time rumours are going round suggesting August or September 2014 before I get to try them.
> 
> Not bad considering I paid for them November 2013.



I don't suppose you have any other option but to wait?


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## Mr Haematocrit (28 Feb 2014)

Peteaud said:


> I don't suppose you have any other option but to wait?



I currently have mechanical loan brakes, but I have to return them to SRAM when requested before they will ship the new hydro brakes as customers can't be trusted.. At some point again in the future my bike will be without brakes waiting for SRAM.


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## Mr Haematocrit (6 Mar 2014)

Well SRAM have now done another update..



So SRAM did not have the quality control in place to discover their brake piston cylinders were not round but oval, they are now testing the redeveloped product in the lab which suggests they did not do this first time around.
They then proceeded to talk up and promote the product by quoting sponsored riders and telling us all about new features... Yet once again they forgot to actually say sorry to customers or mention what they are doing for compensation.


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## Andrew_P (6 Mar 2014)

When I viewed that I thought it needed a bit of editing and he needed to be able to read an auto cue


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## Andrew_P (6 Mar 2014)

I still love my mechanical Red calipers though


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## Peteaud (6 Mar 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Well SRAM have now done another update..
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Unreal..

Why not say sorry?


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## Mr Haematocrit (16 Apr 2014)

Well today after giving the impression in the previous Video that the new product will ship at the end of April SRAM have now released an update stating that they will be "back in production of the new version in late April" no longer are they clearly stating they will ship them at this point. Anyone want to guess when I'm finally going to get them.?



My bike is now 9 months old, never been ridden on the roads, SRAM have still not apologized, continue to make excuses and change their statement.
I along with my LBS have received no notice of compensation


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## disabledcyclist (22 Apr 2014)

Thankgod I went red mechanical, even though I wanted hydro


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## Mr Haematocrit (23 Apr 2014)

disabledcyclist said:


> Thankgod I went red mechanical, even though I wanted hydro



That's how I feel.
I have XX1 on my MTB and it works really well, its very good. But its been around for a while as has Red mechanical.
I would simply advise people to never buy the latest product from SRAM as their quality control and customer service is shameful. I simply do not understand how they can recall the same product twice for the same issue?
Only buy products which have been in the market long enough to have proven themselves.


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## fossyant (23 Apr 2014)

9 months old and never been ridden. Bloody hell.


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## PaulSecteur (23 Apr 2014)

The irony is those hydro brakes are doing an excellent job of stopping that bike, just not in the way SRAM intended or Mr. H appreciates.


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## dodgy (23 Apr 2014)

Think I would have just handed the bike back and got a full refund.


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## jowwy (23 Apr 2014)

dodgy said:


> Think I would have just handed the bike back and got a full refund.


its a one off cavendish replica


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## PaulSecteur (23 Apr 2014)

dodgy said:


> Think I would have just handed the bike back and got a full refund.


The bike is fine, its sram thats slowing things down... not literally though.


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## dodgy (23 Apr 2014)

The bike isn't fine, it can't be ridden!


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## PaulSecteur (23 Apr 2014)

Its wasnt purchased as a complete bike, he collected the components he wanted to build the bike with.

All the other components are fine its just the sram bits letting him down.


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## dodgy (23 Apr 2014)

Ah I see, apologies for my misunderstanding 

Hope there's a happy ending, I don't think SRAM have done well here at all.


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Apr 2014)

Well it is a few days till the end of April this week and I am yet to hear anything from SRAM regarding my brakes, even though the president Stan Day stated in a video on March 5th that the product would be shipped to customers the second half of April..


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## Peteaud (27 Apr 2014)

Mr Haematocrit said:


> Well it is a few days till the end of April this week and I am yet to hear anything from SRAM regarding my brakes, even though the president Stan Day stated in a video on March 5th that the product would be shipped to customers the second half of April..



You know, we know, and i am pretty dam certain that SRAM know, it wont happen.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 Apr 2014)

We have a new update from SRAM... 
http://sramroadhydraulicbrakerecall.com/sram-road-hydraulic-brake-recall-announcement-april-29-2014/

The bits that matter to me are.



> Dear Cyclist with recalled SRAM Road Hydraulic Brakes:
> 
> SRAM’s new Model Year 2015 (MY15) road hydraulic brakes are in full production and will be shipping the first week of May. We decided to delay slightly due to increased validation testing.



So I may get them this year, no mention of compensation for customers who have had bikes depreciating in value, or for retailers who have encountered all the grief from consumers.


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## DCLane (30 Apr 2014)

I like this from their press release:

"If you *have not* received interim mechanical product and have been waiting patiently to swap your recalled Hydro for the new Model Year 2015 Hydro product:"

Erm ... I don't think people have been 'waiting patiently'


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## Mr Haematocrit (19 May 2014)

Well it is now middle of may and SRAM have not started shipping the product to customers even though reassurances were given that this was indeed going to happen.
The rumor mill is flying with suggestions that SRAM have discovered further issues having gone exceptionally quiet recently. I can neither deny or confirm this however SRAM are yet to respond to any tweets or emails sent to them this month.


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## Mr Haematocrit (1 Jun 2014)

31st of May and I'm still waiting for my brakes, no matter what has been stated in publicly released videos and communication sent to me but I have been informed that sponsored riders and important markets take priority.
The UK is not considered to be an important or priority market for SRAM


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## Cuchilo (18 Jul 2014)

My LBS got their CX bike on display this week with the repaired brakes . They said it will be on display for a few weeks and then on sale  Not good business IMHO


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