# Fit and fat



## G3CWI (12 Oct 2016)

I fall into the fit but overweight category. Looking around I see quite a lot people who are way fitter than the average population but are also overweight. I wonder if this is a relatively new phenomenon with some interesting health outcomes?

It does demonstrate that trips to the gym or whatever, do nothing for your weight.


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## gavroche (12 Oct 2016)

As you get older it is inevitable to put on weight unless you starve yourself silly. If you exercise as well, like cycling, you become fitter and healthier but still a bit overweight because this is the law of nature on the human body. You can be Mr Universe at 20 but not at 60 !


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## G3CWI (12 Oct 2016)

gavroche said:


> As you get older it is inevitable to put on weight



Like this you mean?


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## jay clock (12 Oct 2016)

5'9", 87kg and have done three Ironmans in last 5 years and a load of half IMs - not to say that shifting 10kg would not make a big difference to cycling uphill and to my running


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## Starchivore (12 Oct 2016)

I'd have to say my Dad, who cycles a lot, has been in this category for a while.

Better than being both overweight and unfit, but being overweight is still something people need to address to be healthy long term, especially as they get older.


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

In what way are you determining that you're overweight?


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## Bollo (12 Oct 2016)

Up until a few years ago I still had my ex-'80s rugby player's build - 6ft and 100+kg. I'd always assumed that was the way I was made and I was still active and healthy(ish). However, for reasons I won't bore you with I've now dropped to <80kg. If I felt OK before, now I feel great and the cycling has certainly benefited. Judging whether you're overweight is much more than a crappy measure like BMI but it's certainly better to be active than inactive, whatever your weight.


jay clock said:


> 5'9", 87kg and have done three Ironmans in last 5 years and a load of half IMs - not to say that shifting 10kg would not make a big difference to cycling uphill and to my running


20kg of that is calf muscle. How do you get socks on man?


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## JtB (12 Oct 2016)

Normally I weigh 75kg (1.79m). However I've been complexly inactive for the last 2 months due to a slipped disc and I now weigh 71kg. My GP said muscle weighs more than fat and that my weight loss was due to muscle wastage.


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## steveindenmark (12 Oct 2016)

gavroche said:


> As you get older it is inevitable to put on weight unless you starve yourself silly. If you exercise as well, like cycling, you become fitter and healthier but still a bit overweight because this is the law of nature on the human body. You can be Mr Universe at 20 but not at 60 !


This is nonsense.

I am 58, eat like a horse and am certainly not overweight.

Its all down to exercise and what you eat and when. I eat burger King occasionally, ice cream etc, etc.

Where did you get the law of nature bit from?


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

Going by BMI I'm overweight. Considerably so.

Yet I've no flab, can't pinch more than an inch, and my waist is 10" smaller than my chest.

What gets classed as 'overweight' is quite often a load of old tosh.


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## screenman (12 Oct 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> I am 58, eat like a horse and am certainly not overweight.
> 
> ...



How do you expect to get fat eating mainly grass most of the time?

I train hard in the pool for 5 hours a week, I have a physical job and I ride 4 to 6 hours a week and I can still very easily put on weight, now drop sugary things and I stop doing so.


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## screenman (12 Oct 2016)

Drago said:


> Going by BMI I'm overweight. Considerably so.
> 
> Yet I've no flab, can't pinch more than an inch, and my waist is 10" smaller than my chest.
> 
> What gets classed as 'overweight' is quite often a load of old tosh.



Quite often? should read sometimes, I just spent a few hours in Grimsby last week and I doubt I saw one waist line smaller than the chest size.


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## S-Express (12 Oct 2016)

gavroche said:


> You can be Mr Universe at 20 but not at 60 !



Yeah right..


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

He's in good trim, but terrible arm development.


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

screenman said:


> I train hard in the pool for 5 hours a week...


Thats a long time to spend at a snooker table.


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## Bollo (12 Oct 2016)

S-Express said:


> Yeah right..


Ian Holm is more hench than you'd expect.


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

Blimey, Derek Jacobi has really sorted himself out.


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## ColinJ (12 Oct 2016)

gavroche said:


> As you get older it is inevitable to put on weight unless you starve yourself silly. If you exercise as well, like cycling, you become fitter and healthier but still a bit overweight because this is the law of nature on the human body.


Er, _wrong_!

Here's a friend of mine on my 2015 Yorkshire Dales ride ...






He was 61.5 years old in that picture. He is very fit, 5' 10" tall, weighs about 10 st 5 lbs, eats way more than I do and I eat plenty!


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

But he poos a lot more than you do, so it evens out.


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## gavroche (12 Oct 2016)

Ok, my reply attracted quite a bit of controversy so I will change it slightly to: you can't do much about your morphology, some are born to be skinny, others well......


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## Drago (12 Oct 2016)

You can't change your underlying somatotype, but you can build up or reduce as much as your determination and will power will permit.


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## Aperitif (12 Oct 2016)

I have been obese all my life. Mesomorphe or me - less for you!


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## ColinJ (12 Oct 2016)

Drago said:


> But he poos a lot more than you do, so it evens out.


Apparently, he _does_! 

He is one of those people who hates to sit around for too long whereas I would be happy to sit around all day after (say) a 2 hour bike ride. It takes me a lot longer to get bored.


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## fossyant (12 Oct 2016)

You are better off fit and fat.

You see folk that are super slim and never exercise. Slim doesn't mean fit. I have a relative that is more than half my age, third of my weight, and I could crawl faster than she could run two miles without collapsing. She went in for a 'mud muddy' type race, and I said before, what training have you done ? It was the odd run. She managed about a mile before needing oxygen.


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## reacher (13 Oct 2016)

JtB said:


> Normally I weigh 75kg (1.79m). However I've been complexly inactive for the last 2 months due to a slipped disc and I now weigh 71kg. My GP said muscle weighs more than fat and that my weight loss was due to muscle wastage.


Ask your doctor how a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat


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## JtB (13 Oct 2016)

reacher said:


> Ask your doctor how a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat


Very good


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## Hacienda71 (13 Oct 2016)

All of this depends on how you define fit.


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## Dayvo (13 Oct 2016)

Drago said:


> But he poos a lot more than you do, so it evens out.





ColinJ said:


> Apparently, he _does_!  He is one of those people who* hates to sit around for too long* *whereas I would be happy to sit around all day* ....



What, on the_ toilet_!


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## ColinJ (13 Oct 2016)

Dayvo said:


> What, on the_ toilet_!


Vegetarian diet, loads of fibre ... Wouldn't have time to even read the headlines on page 1, let alone the whole newspaper!


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Oct 2016)

At least 10kg overweight. Ran three half marathons last month.


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## keithmac (13 Oct 2016)

Problem most blokes have with being overweight is the fat hangs around the middle which is bad for your internal organs (apparently..).

I read a rule of thumb your waist shouldn't be more than half your height, bmi on the whole isn't a bad thing but if you have a lot of muscle then it is very skewed.

I think most people can judge if they are overweight or not. I went down from 90+kg to 76kg (5'10") and felt a lot better for doing so, my exercise stayed the same just ate less..

As the saying goes, you can't outrun a bad diet..


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## User16390 (15 Nov 2016)

As you get older, diet increasingly plays more of an important role with regards weight control. 

I met this guy at a talk he gave last year and again a few weeks ago at the West Midlands Vegan Festival. He does not have an ounce of excess fat on him, in fact he has an amazing physique, still cycles long distances (I think he is 68) and backs up what he says with science. He explained that even vegans can be overweight and unhealthy due to increasing availability of vegan junk food. His web site gives links to scientists and medical practitioners who have written books on eating a whole foods plant based diet.

The website is well worth a look and his talks are well worth a visit.

http://www.vegancyclist.co.uk/


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## Shortandcrisp (15 Nov 2016)

keithmac said:


> Problem most blokes have with being overweight is the fat hangs around the middle which is bad for your internal organs (apparently..).
> 
> 
> As the saying goes, you can't outrun a bad diet..



You can if you run far enough!!


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## reacher (15 Nov 2016)

G3CWI said:


> I fall into the fit but overweight category. Looking around I see quite a lot people who are way fitter than the average population but are also overweight. I wonder if this is a relatively new phenomenon with some interesting health outcomes?
> 
> It does demonstrate that trips to the gym or whatever, do nothing for your weight.



You could train all you want if your shovelling a ton of food down your neck then your going to put weight on, I don't understand your logic in this statement. Fit compared to the average population is not exactly difficult to achieve to be fair seeing as the average person does nothing in regards to any type of training, however being overweight and fit compared to someone who is not over weight and trains correctly is a differant matter entirely


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## sarahale (15 Nov 2016)

G3CWI said:


> some interesting health outcomes?



Out of interest what sort of health outcomes?


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## david k (27 Nov 2016)

reacher said:


> You could train all you want if your shovelling a ton of food down your neck then your going to put weight on, I don't understand your logic in this statement. Fit compared to the average population is not exactly difficult to achieve to be fair seeing as the average person does nothing in regards to any type of training, however being overweight and fit compared to someone who is not over weight and trains correctly is a differant matter entirely


If the ton of food is healthy and low density calories then maybe you can


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## Slick (2 Dec 2016)

I think it's dangerous to make assumptions about your own or others health just by looking. Two people can have the exact same diet and output, but still have different weights. As already mentioned, where we store the excess fat has a huge effect on our health, and I know one guy in particular who was the embodiment of a fit overweight athlete who could out power the best of them on the hills. It probably had to be seen to be believed, and could only be possible by years of hard graft and effort. Until he started getting chest pains. He's not carrying a lot of weight now, but now knows that carrying too much weight is never good no matter how fast you can get up a hill.


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## ozboz (5 Dec 2016)

At the mo , within two weeks of being 64 , at 6' tall (183cm) ,I weigh in at just under 13 stone, (82kg)
In my late 20's , I hit 17 stone , and never felt as unhealthy in my life , I used to listen to R2 in those days , One afternoon a lady was being interviewed , she mentioned the Beverly Hills Diet , so I found out what I could and went along with it the best I could , my only exercise was walking, it was a nice summer that year , so I walked everywhere , miles and miles , the combination of the two did it for me , The weight has fluctuated on occasion , but on the whole been steady ,


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## snorri (5 Dec 2016)

It's so difficult to read and compare and contrast so many of the posts in this thread.
A formal governnment policy to support metrication was adopted in 1965, NINETEEN SIXTY FIVE, FFS.
OK, rant over.


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## ozboz (5 Dec 2016)

snorri said:


> It's so difficult to read and compare and contrast so many of the posts in this thread.
> A formal governnment policy to support metrication was adopted in 1965, NINETEEN SIXTY FIVE, FFS.
> OK, rant over.



Interesting, it is now 2016 , 
And yet , 
I buy 33 inch Jeans ,
17-1/2 inch collar shirts
7-1/4 headwear
Pints of Beer ,
Drive 80 miles per day for my work, 
Not very Metric ,


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## JD42 (5 Dec 2016)

I have Big bones apparently


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## ColinJ (5 Dec 2016)

JD42 said:


> View attachment 153490
> 
> 
> I have Big bones apparently


That is one of the most stunning (and shocking) pictures that I have ever seen! I don't know if it is genuine, but extremely obese bodies must be something like that. It really demonstrates that inside every morbidly obese person there is a slim one trying to get out.


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## keithmac (5 Dec 2016)

I'm a member of My Fitness Pal and some of the before and after pictures are amazing, that x-ray above rings true as their skeletons won't magically change shape.


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## Julia9054 (5 Dec 2016)

User16390 said:


> As you get older, diet increasingly plays more of an important role with regards weight control.
> 
> I met this guy at a talk he gave last year and again a few weeks ago at the West Midlands Vegan Festival. He does not have an ounce of excess fat on him, in fact he has an amazing physique, still cycles long distances (I think he is 68) and backs up what he says with science. He explained that even vegans can be overweight and unhealthy due to increasing availability of vegan junk food. His web site gives links to scientists and medical practitioners who have written books on eating a whole foods plant based diet.
> 
> ...


I worked with him for a bit. Used to cycle a round trip of over 50 miles to work every day and eat what looked like giant tubs of brown sludge for lunch!


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## MarkF (5 Dec 2016)

gavroche said:


> As you get older it is inevitable to put on weight unless you starve yourself silly. If you exercise as well, like cycling, you become fitter and healthier but still a bit overweight because this is the law of nature on the human body. You can be Mr Universe at 20 but not at 60 !



I have 2 groups of pals, ones I played football with and ones that never really did any exercise at all. I still play the odd game of football (at 53) with the former who mostly still play as well, many of these now cycle and use the gym. Just about every one of us has the same physique we had in our late 20's. When I look at the pals who didn't do anything, they look like our dad's and it's all too late for them now.

60 looks like this!


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## ColinJ (5 Dec 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have 2 groups of pals, ones I played football with and ones that never really did any exercise at all. I still play the odd game of football (at 53) with the former who mostly still play as well, many of these now cycle and use the gym. Just about every one of us has the same physique we had in our late 20's. *When I look at the pals who didn't do anything, they look like our dad's and it's all too late for them now.*


Probably not true! Ok, if they are about to die from a terminal illness brought on by a poor lifestyle then it IS too late, but the rest of them can change.

I lost loads of weight in my 50s, got stuck in to my cycling and feel much better now. The biggest sign that I used to be obese and unfit is that my skin has lots of stretch marks. I look like I have given birth to about 30 kids! Apart from that, no obvious problems.


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## MarkF (5 Dec 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Probably not true! Ok, if they are about to die from a terminal illness brought on by a poor lifestyle then it IS too late, but the rest of them can change.
> 
> I lost loads of weight in my 50s, got stuck in to my cycling and feel much better now. The biggest sign that I used to be obese and unfit is that my skin has lots of stretch marks. I look like I have given birth to about 30 kids! Apart from that, no obvious problems.



Possibly not true but probably true.  They are lardy (very) arsed, lazy fekkers who haven't ran since schooldays, why would they start doing anything now in their mid-50's? I have known some since those schooldays and wish just one would do what you did, but I really, really doubt that will happen as they have been asked/invited/encouraged numerous times as both groups "know" eachother.


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## david k (10 Dec 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have 2 groups of pals, ones I played football with and ones that never really did any exercise at all. I still play the odd game of football (at 53) with the former who mostly still play as well, many of these now cycle and use the gym. Just about every one of us has the same physique we had in our late 20's.
> 
> 
> When I look at the pals who didn't do anything, they look like our dad's and it's all too late for them now.



Why is it too late for them?

Are, just seen post above

Not too late for them, but you doubt they are motivated to do it, two different things


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## keithmac (10 Dec 2016)

That's the thing, if you choose to lose weight it's different to other people making you lose weight.

It's hard work to lose weight (for me anyway), and if the hearts not in it, no motivation then it's a none starter..


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## Slick (10 Dec 2016)

keithmac said:


> That's the thing, if you choose to lose weight it's different to other people making you lose weight.
> 
> It's hard work to lose weight (for me anyway), and if the hearts not in it, no motivation then it's a none starter..


It's the same with everything really, you need the right type of motivation and drive to achieve any level of success at anything.


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## david k (11 Dec 2016)

Slick said:


> It's the same with everything really, you need the right type of motivation and drive to achieve any level of success at anything.


Yep, self motivation rather than someone else pushing you, that rarely leads to success
Coaches and teachers should create an environment for success and encourage self motivation. That said we all need a push from time to time to stop complaincency


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## Starchivore (11 Dec 2016)

* Calorie Density: How To Eat More, Weigh Less and Live Longer*

For those trying to lose weight but struggling with things like being hungry, I really recommend watching this lecture on calorie density:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg


Quite long so might need to watch it in two parts- but honestly nothing else will make eating for weight loss more clear than this. And the dietitian giving the lecture (Jeff Novick) is quite entertaining too. It's from a Dr McDougall study weekend.


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## Slick (11 Dec 2016)

david k said:


> Yep, self motivation rather than someone else pushing you, that rarely leads to success
> Coaches and teachers should create an environment for success and encourage self motivation. That said we all need a push from time to time to stop complaincency


I'm an instructor in a national training centre. I enjoy nearly all aspects of it, but what really interests me is finding out what exactly motivates the individual, then using that to make sure they have the desire to push themselves forward. It's really interesting to watch. In my day it was cash and cash only, now it's unlimited.


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## david k (11 Dec 2016)

Slick said:


> I'm an instructor in a national training centre. I enjoy nearly all aspects of it, but what really interests me is finding out what exactly motivates the individual, then using that to make sure they have the desire to push themselves forward. It's really interesting to watch. In my day it was cash and cash only, now it's unlimited.


Brilliant, I'm a rugby coach and love all types of player development, nutrition, application etc etc. I try not to look at performance in isolation


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## Slick (11 Dec 2016)

Haha, you can apply the same theories to all walks of life. I just wish I was more open to it when I was younger.


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## david k (11 Dec 2016)

Slick said:


> Haha, you can apply the same theories to all walks of life. I just wish I was more open to it when I was younger.


I was fascinated with this when I was younger, played semi pro but suddenly lost interest due to over exposure to it all. I've now found new interest and enjoying coaching, my view is creating the environment for people to flourish, many bosses, coaches etc often put that reponsibilty on staff, saying they will come through if good enough, well, create that pathway, or lead them to water an hope they drink it


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## Slick (11 Dec 2016)

It's a fairly knew concept to me. Running my own business for a number of years, I believed the only choices were cash incentives or the stick. Thinking back makes me cringe at some of the tactics I'd use to achieve whatever was required. I've learned a lot over the last few years.


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## david k (11 Dec 2016)

Slick said:


> It's a fairly knew concept to me. Running my own business for a number of years, I believed the only choices were cash incentives or the stick. Thinking back makes me cringe at some of the tactics I'd use to achieve whatever was required. I've learned a lot over the last few years.


Cash is a poor motivator usually, it's very short term as eventually it becomes a right in the eyes of the receiver, it feels like a punishment when they don't get it
Personal touches are greater incentives, everyone like,s to be recognised, so small thoughtful gifts or simply a brief word in their ear can really tune people in and want them to achieve more


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## Dogtrousers (11 Dec 2016)

On the lines of the "is it too late" and motivation questions, quite a few years ago a friend said something to me that has stuck in my mind. We were talking about finding the time to exercise. She said "If you don't find time for it now, then be prepared to find time to deal with the consequences later." (Referring to stuff like heart disease and type 2 diabetes etc)

It was one of those "a ha" moments. I remember exactly where I was when she said it.


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## Slick (11 Dec 2016)

I had a similar experience when I found my self trying to explain to the safety man why I was about to throw my leg over the handrail of a North Sea oil rig and slide down a 21 ft tube to sit on a 9" butt at the bottom. He said,"There is no greater incentive, than no other alternative". He was obviously exforces, but it stuck with me and served me well a couple of times.


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## david k (19 Dec 2016)

Starchivore said:


> * Calorie Density: How To Eat More, Weigh Less and Live Longer*
> 
> For those trying to lose weight but struggling with things like being hungry, I really recommend watching this lecture on calorie density:
> 
> ...



Just watched the complete video, very interesting, do you know how old this is?


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## Starchivore (19 Dec 2016)

david k said:


> Just watched the complete video, very interesting, do you know how old this is?



I think about ten years. But the dietitian there, Jeff Novick, is still promoting all the same stuff. I like him because he makes things so clear. He's written some more about it here. Very interesting stuff.
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Articles/Entries/2012/5/20_A_Common_Sense_Approach_To_Sound_Nutrition.html


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## david k (20 Dec 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I think about ten years. But the dietitian there, Jeff Novick, is still promoting all the same stuff. I like him because he makes things so clear. He's written some more about it here. Very interesting stuff.
> http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Articles/Entries/2012/5/20_A_Common_Sense_Approach_To_Sound_Nutrition.html


I like it, has anyone tried to challenge his findings?


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## Starchivore (21 Dec 2016)

david k said:


> I like it, has anyone tried to challenge his findings?



I'm not sure really. I'd imagine it'd be hard to challenge the calorie-density numbers themselves. But I'm sure some people would say it's better to eat the same things you usually eat and enjoy, including calorie-dense treats, and weigh things out and count the calories as carefully as possible. I think that would be a nightmare but I know some people do manage it.


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## david k (21 Dec 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I'm not sure really. I'd imagine it'd be hard to challenge the calorie-density numbers themselves. But I'm sure some people would say it's better to eat the same things you usually eat and enjoy, including calorie-dense treats, and weigh things out and count the calories as carefully as possible. I think that would be a nightmare but I know some people do manage it.


He is right though, people who do that generally cannot do it for long, too time consuming. This approach is so simply, makes sense and is easy to do. It's something we should all know, so why don't we follow this more?
Is it because diets make people money?


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## ColinJ (21 Dec 2016)

I try to have at least 3 big salads a week. 

I worked out the calorie density thing for myself and realised that I could eat as much salad as I wanted, within reason. I am careful not to overdo what I have _with_ a salad. Sometimes I will have a baked sweet potato, that kind of thing.

Here's an example - a humungous great bowl of salad accompanied by a tin of tuna in BRINE, not oil. The jar contains a home-made dressing made from natural yoghurt, crushed garlic, lemon juice, black pepper and just a little honey and extra virgin olive oil.







I think that I have been overdoing my favourite treat - mixed nuts and raisins. I started having that combination to wean myself off chocolate and cake. It worked but I am now getting through an awful lot of nuts in a week instead! I think they are very healthy but I ought to cut down until I get my weight back to where I want it (about 10 kgs, 22 lbs. 1 st 8 lbs below what it is now).


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## david k (22 Dec 2016)

Yes I think I had worked out the calorie density thing but seeing it made me realise what I thought I may have already known, 

Love the bowl of salad, snacking is often the issue, I snack on natural fat free yoghurts and some go ahead bars, fruit etc.


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## Slick (22 Dec 2016)

I'm about to polish off another tub of quality street. I love Christmas.


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## Dayvo (22 Dec 2016)

This is an excellent video, informative, easy to understand and with humour.

It is *definitely* worth watching for the whole 39 minutes. 


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-BJzqMbsxI


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## Starchivore (31 Dec 2016)

david k said:


> He is right though, people who do that generally cannot do it for long, too time consuming. This approach is so simply, makes sense and is easy to do. It's something we should all know, so why don't we follow this more?
> Is it because diets make people money?



Absolutely- there's generally no money in recommending lentils and broccoli and boiled potatoes unfortunately! The money is made in selling crazy "diet secrets".....


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## galaxy (1 Jan 2017)

My weight is o getting out of control, guess what starts today.


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## dim (1 Jan 2017)

and the other extreme:


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## Slick (1 Jan 2017)

galaxy said:


> My weight is o getting out of control, guess what starts today.


Yeah, you and everyone else. Good luck.


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