# La Vuelta 2016 **SPOILERS**



## rich p (15 Aug 2016)

Here are the odds. 
Can Froome recover from his exertions and will Quintana be a more credible threat?
Bertie will be rested and up for it but has he still got it?
Chaves should go well again.
JRod and Landa will be also rans
It would be nice to see Kruijswiik reproduce his Giro form
Lopez, too young?
Uran and Valverde will be thereabouts but...
Pinot ? 

Alberto Contador 15/8
Nairo Quintana 11/4
Chris Froome 3/1
Esteban Chaves 5/1
Joaquin Rodriguez 9/1
Mikel Landa 16/1
Steven Kruijswijk 20/1
Miguel Angel Lopez 22/1
Alejandro Valverde 25/1
Rigoberto Uran 33/1
Andrew Talansky 40/1
Thibaut Pinot 40/1
Robert Gesink 50/1
Tejay Van Garderen 50/1
Roman Kreuziger 66/1
S Sanchez 66/1
Simon Yates 66/1
Leopold Konig 66/1
Jon Izaguirre 125/1
Jean Christophe Peraud 125/1
Andrey Amador 125/1
Joe Dombrowski 150/1


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## HF2300 (15 Aug 2016)

The one thing you do know is Sky will have a strong, organised team behind Froome. Think Bertie's ride might well depend on what his relationship with the team is at the moment, but although he had particular problems on the Tour I don't think he's the Pistolero of old. Would be good to see Purito win a farewell stage and a decent (top 5?) placing, but who knows with Katusha. Movistar will need to get it together as a team better than they did on the Tour if they want to put Quintana on the top step - my cynical side suspects they might not. Pinot? Nah.


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## Buddfox (15 Aug 2016)

Contador looked fresh in the Vuelta a Burgos so think it's hard to see past him winning, absent crashes. Froome looked knackered at the Olympics


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## Crackle (15 Aug 2016)

I tend to think this race is Froome's nemesis. Contador will have a fractured team again so he'll have to do it himself. We're due a complete outsider I reckon, a Cobo or a Horner but as others often say to me; what do I know.


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## smutchin (15 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> We're due a complete outsider I reckon



Hugh Carthy!


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## rich p (15 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> The one thing you do know is Sky will have a strong, organised team behind Froome


Not as strong looking as the TdF team.
Landa, Kwiat, Kennaugh, Konig, Puccio, Golas, Boswell, Knees


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## brommers (15 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> Hugh Carthy!


My rocking horse has just made a nasty mess on the carpet


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## brommers (17 Aug 2016)

Carthy is a very good prospect, but I think he would need to have better guys around him. Saying that, Yates more or less freelanced his way to 4th in the TdF.


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## mjr (17 Aug 2016)

The Chaves-Yates combo to show Quintana-ValvPiti how to do a one-two attack?


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## smutchin (17 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> My rocking horse has just made a nasty mess on the carpet



Tbh, if Carthy performs beyond expectations in this Vuelta, I wouldn't necessarily take it as a good sign. If we're looking for this year's Cobo or Horner, I suspect (hope?) it's more likely to be someone like Kreuziger.


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## Crackle (17 Aug 2016)

Landa out.


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## HF2300 (17 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Landa out.



Hip injury, apparently. Replaced by David Lopez. Froome's Vuelta bogey starting early.


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## Crackle (17 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Hip injury, apparently. Replaced by David Lopez. Froome's Vuelta bogey starting early.


Call me cynical but I'm still waiting for Landa to produce his Astana form.


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## HF2300 (17 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Call me cynical but I'm still waiting for Landa to produce his Astana form.



Cynic. Don't know how you could suggest such a thing of a team run by such a fine upstanding young gentleman as Vinokourov.


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## rich p (19 Aug 2016)

Teejay has decided not to go for the GC!!!!!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-garderen-plans-radically-different-approach-to-vuelta-a-espana/


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## ColinJ (19 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Teejay has decided not to go for the GC!!!!!
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-garderen-plans-radically-different-approach-to-vuelta-a-espana/


He'll probably go and win it now! 

I have let my Eurosport subscription lapse until next year's Spring Classics, on the basis that ITV4 and the BBC cover most of the cycling that I want to watch until then. I went to ITV4 in the listings just now to set up 'series recording' for the Vuelta and found that the 7 pm slot is taken up by 'World Series of Darts' ... I thought for a horrible moment that they were not going to cover the race this year. Fear not - coverage is at 10 pm tomorrow but subsequently reverts to the usual 7 pm time.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Teejay has decided not to go for the GC!!!!!
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-garderen-plans-radically-different-approach-to-vuelta-a-espana/


You can just about hear the huge sigh of relief from the GC contenders


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## coffeejo (19 Aug 2016)

Do you think Ladbrokes will give me my money back?


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## mjr (19 Aug 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Fear not - coverage is at 10 pm tomorrow but subsequently reverts to the usual 7 pm time.


TMN to me.  https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tells-us-what-cycling-is-coming-up-on-tv.119943/post-4416896

I may watch a few key Vuelta stages live on Eurosport, simply by turning the antenna from 28°E to 19° and watching in German. Once installed, it's a lot less faff than trying to get online streams and works out cheaper than paying £5/month - I think I paid about £200 fifteen or more years ago, although I did buy a £70 HD recorder upgrade this year. The Vuelta used to be the difficult grand tour, only broadcast on TVE Internacional and very low-quality (digital encoding of heatwave atmospheric effects made for really bad viewing), but it's been on Eurosport for the last few years.


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## fimm (19 Aug 2016)

I don't think it can be a TMN if has been posted in a _different thread_....


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## rich p (19 Aug 2016)

mjr said:


> simply by turning the antenna from 28°E to 19° and watching in German.


Really? I don't think you've mentioned that before


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## mjr (19 Aug 2016)

fimm said:


> I don't think it can be a TMN if has been posted in a _different thread_....


OK, I'll go report it as off-topic, then


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## philk56 (19 Aug 2016)

I wonder if the Katusha team made it back to their hotel!

https://twitter.com/katushacycling/status/766588804933230592


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## brommers (19 Aug 2016)

TT bikes on a cross country course? Interesting.


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## brommers (19 Aug 2016)

What a spectacular setting for the team presentation


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## ColinJ (19 Aug 2016)

fimm said:


> I don't think it can be a TMN if has been posted in a _different thread_....


Ha ha - I nearly posted the same thing before spotting your post, so that would have a TMN for pointing out a false TMN!


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## rich p (19 Aug 2016)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author/robert-millars-2016-vuelta-a-espana-predictions/
Does Robert Millar get paid for coming out with the same trite stuff that we spout on here?


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## coffeejo (19 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author/robert-millars-2016-vuelta-a-espana-predictions/
> Does Robert Millar get paid for coming out with the same trite stuff that we spout on here?


I think we're better at apostrophe's.


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## Crackle (19 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I think we're better at apostrophe's.


It's true. I can pick out Orion on a clear night.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (19 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/author/robert-millars-2016-vuelta-a-espana-predictions/
> Does Robert Millar get paid for coming out with the same trite stuff that we spout on here?


I doubt he'd even get a "like" on this thread for that load of bollocks.


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## rich p (19 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> It's true. I can pick out Orion on a clear night.


Orion Greenedge Bike Exchange?


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## brommers (19 Aug 2016)

Has anyone else done the fantasy Velogames? Also don't forget to do the pro tour picks for the Vuelta.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2016)

Also, an invite to Pro Tour Punditry thread.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/protour-pundit-2016-no-spoilers-please.193641/post-4425454


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## Pro Tour Punditry (20 Aug 2016)

Ashley and Wahn-Antonio clothes-clash catastrophe


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## rich p (20 Aug 2016)

If effing Kirby says engaged, fully engaged or disengaged, once more I shall have a tantrum.


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## Supersuperleeds (20 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> If effing Kirby says engaged, fully engaged or disengaged, once more I shall have a tantrum.


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## roadrash (20 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> If effing Kirby says engaged, fully engaged or disengaged, once more I shall have a tantrum.[/QUOTE
> 
> ]i think ...ill be bound is another favourite of his


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## brommers (20 Aug 2016)

Kennaugh in red!


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## Crackle (21 Aug 2016)

There are no sprinters of real note in this darn race and it's a sprint stage.


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## rich p (21 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> There are no sprinters of real note in this darn race and it's a sprint stage.


Isn't it the only one though till Madrid? ? Hardly much incentive to flog your arse over those MTFs.


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## Crackle (21 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Isn't it the only one though till Madrid? ? Hardly much incentive to flog your arse over those MTFs.


That would explain why there's no sprinters. I suspected as much but hadn't looked.


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## rich p (21 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> That would explain why there's no sprinters. I suspected as much but hadn't looked.


Nor have I but Carlton Kirby said as much yesterday, and what CK doesn't know about bike racing isn't worth...........


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## smutchin (21 Aug 2016)

Stages 2, 5, 8, 11, 16, 18 and 21 are designated as 'Flat' but I suspect something has been lost in translation from the Spanish...


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## roadrash (21 Aug 2016)

I will never understand how they manage to classify the climbs in the vuelta compared to any other race


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

Spain looks nice


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## coffeejo (21 Aug 2016)

Here we go with the highlights. Not quite the same as watching live.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Here we go with the highlights. Not quite the same as watching live.


Dad's Army on BBC2 in 4 minutes


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

Hugh Carthy gets a mention


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Dad's Army on BBC2 in 4 minutes









Wot no Murder She Wrote?


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

How do you fold datasets into real time actionable analytics models, and was any of that advert a known language?


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## coffeejo (21 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> How do you fold datasets into real time actionable analytics models, and was any of that advert a known language?


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## coffeejo (21 Aug 2016)

Oooof.


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Oooof.



x2


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## rich p (21 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Spain looks nice


I was in Baiona for my hols...


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

Well won sprint by Etixx


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## coffeejo (21 Aug 2016)

Sky and Movistar have taken all the top ten places - is that normal for La Vuelta given it's the day after a team time trial?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> I was in Baiona for my hols...


Were you the Baionic Man?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Sky and Movistar have taken all the top ten places - is that normal for La Vuelta given it's the day after a team time trial?


Yeh, it can take a couple of days to sort things out after a TTT and not too unusual to get 2 teams filling the top spots


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## HF2300 (21 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Were you the Baionic Man?



Where's that 'groan' button?


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## JtB (21 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> I was in Baiona for my hols...


I've been there a few times too, and I also know the area where tomorrow's stage starts (Marin and Pontevedra) very well.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

JtB said:


> I've been there a few times too, and I also know the area where tomorrow's stage starts (Marin and Pontevedra) very well.


JtB greets Rich on holiday






Rich is none to happy about there being more than one Baionic person


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## rich p (21 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> JtB greets Rich on holiday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have the technology...
...well, a titanium hip


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> We have the technology...
> ...well, a titanium hip


I'm fairly concerned that I remembered there was a 2nd bionic man created. And not forgetting the Bionic Woman.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (21 Aug 2016)

Rich all packed for his next visit


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## fimm (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Wot no Murder She Wrote?


Hehehe I haven't seen one of those for _years_!


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## brommers (22 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> There are no sprinters of real note in this darn race and it's a sprint stage.


All the points are gobbled up by the climbers at the finish. Intermediate sprints are 4, 2 and 1 points - hardly worth going for and situated too late in the stages. The TdF sprints offer a lot more points and are more sensibly placed.


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## Buddfox (22 Aug 2016)

Just turned this on - looks like Sky are happy to give up the red jersey


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## brommers (22 Aug 2016)

Pellaud leadering - so says the English translation on the official website


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

"can he do it Sean...?" The eternal question.


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## philk56 (22 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> "can he do it Sean...?" The eternal question.


They seem more optimistic than I am.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

I'm going for no, as he's all over the place.


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## philk56 (22 Aug 2016)

Would like to see him make it but the last climb sounds a killer.


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## philk56 (22 Aug 2016)

Still hanging in there.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

They might do it. This final climb is not long but difficult.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

Big gaps here


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

Froome made up a good gap there, gaps Quintana and Contador who was a long way back.


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## brommers (22 Aug 2016)

Wow! what a climb that was!


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## perplexed (22 Aug 2016)

I haven't actually managed to see any of the Vuelta thus far this year, but I did catch a glimpse of a still of Quintana out of the saddle behind Froome...


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Here we go with the highlights. Not quite the same as watching live.



I've come across a problem today. How to watch & discuss the highlights without reading all the spoilers those who've been on Eurosport, ProCycling Live etc. during the day have posted. The solution seems to be don't discuss or post from a much earlier page


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I've come across a problem today. How to watch & discuss the highlights without reading all the spoilers those who've been on Eurosport, ProCycling Live etc. during the day have posted. The solution seems to be don't discuss or post from a much earlier page


I've ignored today's posts but took a chance on yours since you quoted me. I'm going to open the thread when the highlights show begins and hope I can read any posts in conjunction with the action onscreen. It worked yesterday as nobody had posted anything!


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## rich p (22 Aug 2016)

That was typically brutal for the Vuelta. 
I confess to knowing nothing about Ruben Fernandez


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

Is Gary presenting this from his cellar?


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

For a moment then I thought that Quintana was back on form but seemingly not.


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> For a moment then I thought that Quintana was back on form but seemingly not.


I don't think such a climb suits Quintana or a few others, so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Is Gary presenting this from his cellar?



ITV4 can't afford to actually send people to the race, so Boulting and Millar get to watch it on TV as we do, but from the luxury of a small room the real ITV people forgot about.


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I don't think such a climb suits Quintana or a few others, so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.


I thought he was meant to be the guy who likes going up mountains?!


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I've ignored today's posts but took a chance on yours since you quoted me. I'm going to open the thread when the highlights show begins and hope I can read any posts in conjunction with the action onscreen. It worked yesterday as nobody had posted anything!



I was too worried about inadvertently seeing the result to risk looking.


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I was too worried about inadvertently seeing the result to risk looking.


I didn't read it in the end. Too confusing. We need a thread for the highlights and one for the live action!


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I think we need a thread for the highlights and one for the live action!



I nearly started one! Perhaps I'll risk confusion & moderator wrath and do it tomorrow.


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> ITV4 can't afford to actually send people to the race, so Boulting and Millar get to watch it on TV as we do, but from the luxury of a small room the real ITV people forgot about.


I get why it's not on TV but they could at least show it on the internet since they're already paying the commentators.


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I get why it's not on TV but they could at least show it on the internet since they're already paying the commentators.



Probably still have to shell out for full broadcasting rights though, or maybe Eurosport have UK exclusive rights for live coverage.


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Probably still have to shell out for full broadcasting rights though, or maybe Eurosport have UK exclusive rights for live coverage.


Fair point. I assumed they had the rights but weren't using them.


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## HF2300 (22 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Fair point. I assumed they had the rights but weren't using them.



Still, it's nice we can discuss the coverage even if our thunder does get stolen on the actual race.


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## coffeejo (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Still, it's nice we can discuss the coverage even if our thunder does get stolen on the actual race.


No meerkats tonight!


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## smutchin (22 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> maybe Eurosport have UK exclusive rights for live coverage.



My understanding is that ASO don't give anyone exclusive broadcast rights in any territory - one of their better decisions. This is why you get live coverage of the Tour on both Eurosport and ITV. And it's also why Sky haven't snapped up the Tour, because they're only ever interested in exclusive coverage (when Sky have covered cycling in the past, it's been non-ASO races).


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## brommers (22 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I don't think such a climb suits Quintana


What sort of climb does suit Quintana?


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## Crackle (22 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> What sort of climb does suit Quintana?


Something longer. Much more suited to Valvpiti today. Froome mentioned it was the kind of climb in which it was all too easy to blow up with 500m to go on account of going too hard at the beginning of a seemingly short climb. Perhaps that's what Quintana did and Contador as he was in front of Froome initially.


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## 400bhp (22 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> What sort of climb does suit Quintana?



20 minute plus efforts


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## mjr (22 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> My understanding is that ASO don't give anyone exclusive broadcast rights in any territory - one of their better decisions.


Do they charge more for live than highlights, though?

ITV have Friebos there, like mrendell in past years. Very short item from him today.


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## HF2300 (23 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> My understanding is that ASO don't give anyone exclusive broadcast rights in any territory - one of their better decisions. This is why you get live coverage of the Tour on both Eurosport and ITV. And it's also why Sky haven't snapped up the Tour, because they're only ever interested in exclusive coverage (when Sky have covered cycling in the past, it's been non-ASO races).



That's interesting, and as you say, a good way to do things. I was just thinking out loud, really. Thinking about it, it might be as simple as ITV thinking the Vuelta won't attract the audience (and therefore sell the advertising) that the Tour does - they don't have separate internet channels as the BBC do, their internet feed is just the broadcast feed.


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## coffeejo (23 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> That's interesting, and as you say, a good way to do things. I was just thinking out loud, really. Thinking about it, it might be as simple as ITV thinking the Vuelta won't attract the audience (and therefore sell the advertising) that the Tour does - they don't have separate internet channels as the BBC do, their internet feed is just the broadcast feed.


They should sort that out then


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## rich p (23 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> They should sort that out then


Pop round to mine Jo. I'll leave the key under the mat if I'm not in.


Crackle said:


> I don't think such a climb suits Quintana or a few others, so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.


I don't think it was the type of climb that suits Froome either but he chipped better than Quintana. Contador is a busted flush - FACT


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## coffeejo (23 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Pop round to mine Jo. I'll leave the key under the mat if I'm not in.


I'll set off now. Should get there in time for the Giro.


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> I don't think it was the type of climb that suits Froome either but he chipped better than Quintana. Contador is a busted flush - FACT



Well we might have our outside shout if Fernandez climbs like that again.


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## philk56 (23 Aug 2016)

Looks like a beautiful part of the country.


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2016)

All a bit disappointing today. I find the Vuelta profiles difficult to translate into outcomes.


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## philk56 (23 Aug 2016)

Thought it was a great ride by the winner and good to see some different riders winning stages. And a new overall leader. I won't name any names for the sake of our highlight viewers ☺


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## brommers (23 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Thought it was a great ride by the winner and good to see some different riders winning stages. And a new overall leader. I won't name any names for the sake of our highlight viewers ☺


 Thread says spoilers - so if you didn't want to know the results you wouldn't look at this before you watch the highlights, surely?


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## Mike_P (23 Aug 2016)

Just going back to yesterdays but that Astana rider stopping immediately his team leader went down without thinking about the cyclist behind was a bit stupid.


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## coffeejo (23 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Thought it was a great ride by the winner and good to see some different riders winning stages. And a new overall leader. I won't name any names for the sake of our highlight viewers ☺


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## HF2300 (23 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Thought it was a great ride by the winner and good to see some different riders winning stages. And a new overall leader. I won't name any names for the sake of our highlight viewers ☺



Very considerate of you, Phil.


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## philk56 (23 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Very considerate of you, Phil.


Might not always be  Depends on who else is participating on the thread. On this occasion I seemed to be on my own!


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Thought it was a great ride by the winner and good to see some different riders winning stages. And a new overall leader. I won't name any names for the sake of our highlight viewers ☺


I agree entirely but most pundits seemed to have had a break succeeding today as an outside chance and this was an early GC test but so far both breaks have stuck.


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## HF2300 (23 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Might not always be  Depends on who else is participating on the thread. On this occasion I seemed to be on my own!



There's no point in standing on ceremony just for us, without looking at the thread we wouldn't know if there were spoilers or not anyway. I'd be tempted to watch it on ProCycling Live, but I can't let another GTs worth of time get sucked away.


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## HF2300 (23 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> All a bit disappointing today. I find the Vuelta profiles difficult to translate into outcomes.



I thought today was interesting for the break, but it's not telling us a lot about GC apart from TVG finding even worse form than usual and Bertie still looking weak.

I want to know why Lilian wants us to call him Jane.


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## rich p (23 Aug 2016)

Kruijswiik and Yates both lost time. Surprisingly.


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## brommers (24 Aug 2016)

Today's stage has finally started - due to de Gendt attacking the KOM


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## philk56 (24 Aug 2016)

Not looking good for some riders on the run-in


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## brommers (24 Aug 2016)

Kruiswijck collarbone?


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## Crackle (24 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Kruiswijck collarbone?


Certainly looked that way. He's not developing into the luckiest GT rider on this years form.


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## coffeejo (24 Aug 2016)

Well that was carnage.


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## coffeejo (24 Aug 2016)

And I hope there's hell to pay about that bollard.


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## coffeejo (24 Aug 2016)

Interesting interview with David Millar about road safety and the rules. Not sure what it says (or doesn't) about Rio.


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## Crackle (24 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> And I hope there's hell to pay about that bollard.


I'm unclear. Did anyone hit that bollard?


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## 400bhp (24 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I'm unclear. Did anyone hit that bollard?



Didn't Kroeussswiiiich hit it?


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## Crackle (24 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Didn't Kroeussswiiiich hit it?


Ah so he did. The report has now appeared on Cyclingnews.


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## rich p (24 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Didn't Kroeussswiiiich hit it?


Too few j's and k's but a bloody good effort!


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## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Take a look at where the intermediate sprint is today!


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## coffeejo (25 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> View attachment 141193
> Take a look at where the intermediate sprint is today!


Looks like a good one for Froome to run up.


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## Speicher (25 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Looks like a good one for Froome to run up.


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## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Seems as though Kruijswijk is still in the race - so good to hear he didn't break his collarbone


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## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Lopez has just dropped out though


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## Slaav (25 Aug 2016)

Which Lopez??
Or am I being a little thick??


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## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Miguel Angel Lopez (Astana) - who broke his teeth the other day


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## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Just seen Orica's team bus and it still says GreenEDGE


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## philk56 (25 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Seems as though Kruijswijk is still in the race - so good to hear he didn't break his collarbone


Is that right? Not what he says on Twitter but if so that's good for him - and for my fantasy team


----------



## Hont (25 Aug 2016)

Hmmm. As @philk56 says, his Twitter account says he's abandoned, the Lotto website says he's abandoned, Cyclingnews says he's abandoned, but the official Vuelta feed only reports Kiserlovski and Minard as the only overnight leavers.

I'm guessing that has to be a mistake. If his DS says he's out and he says he's out, he's out.


----------



## philk56 (25 Aug 2016)

Another lone breakaway but once again, will he make it?


----------



## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

How was that an unclassified climb?


----------



## philk56 (25 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> How was that an unclassified climb?


If you mean the one they just descended from I think it was a cat 2. The final climb is unclassified.


----------



## philk56 (25 Aug 2016)

Yates going for it!


----------



## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

Wow! Chapeaux Yatesey!


----------



## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> If you mean the one they just descended from I think it was a cat 2. The final climb is unclassified.


No, the one after the cat 2


----------



## philk56 (25 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> No, the one after the cat 2


I suppose not quite long enough. Great ride by Yates.


----------



## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> I suppose not quite long enough







About 15km long


----------



## brommers (25 Aug 2016)

philk56 said:


> Great ride by Yates


And moved up to 10th in GC


----------



## smutchin (25 Aug 2016)

And they managed to keep the 1km to go banner upright!


----------



## coffeejo (25 Aug 2016)

Bah, accidentally stumbled across a spoiler. Oh well. I look forward to seeing him Yates cross the line.


----------



## Mike_P (25 Aug 2016)

On tonights highlights Gary Imlach referring to yesterdays pile up commented that an Astana riders front wheel must have hit something - the something is clearly a felled cyclist who had just started to sit up. Slow mo video on this web site (and no doubt others) http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-a-espana-crashes-caught-on-camera-video/


----------



## HF2300 (26 Aug 2016)

Mike_P said:


> On tonights highlights Gary Imlach referring to yesterdays pile up commented that an Astana riders front wheel must have hit something - the something is clearly a felled cyclist who had just started to sit up. Slow mo video on this web site (and no doubt others) http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-a-espana-crashes-caught-on-camera-video/



Didn't he say that some people managed to avoid but the Astana rider wasn't so lucky?


----------



## 400bhp (26 Aug 2016)

Profile looks tough today and good for another breakaway


----------



## brommers (26 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> And they managed to keep the 1km to go banner upright!


Obviously the Spanish like Simon more than the French like Adam


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2016)

Simon Clarke has been looking a bit interested the last couple of days


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2016)

And Carlton Kirby is still a blabbering tool


----------



## Mike_P (26 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Didn't he say that some people managed to avoid but the Astana rider wasn't so lucky?


Yes but he did not know what the Astana rider had hit.


----------



## brommers (26 Aug 2016)

Just looked at the ages of the top 10 and if they had a young riders category, then Simon Yates would be leading - emulating Adam.


----------



## themosquitoking (26 Aug 2016)

Bets down right now. Which Yates will end up with the better palmares?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Bets down right now. Which Yates will end up with the better palmares?


I think this is one for a league table from the BBC presented by Clare Balding.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (26 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> I think this is one for a league table from the BBC presented by Clare Balding.


Not impressed with this balding business. She'll be better when she's completely bald.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (26 Aug 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Not impressed with this balding business. She'll be better when she's completely bald.


I'd be happier when she completely fecked off with her "jolly comparative" shite.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Aug 2016)

Another close shave for Froome today


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2016)

Does he only get his hair cut at Grand Tours or something. Cheapskate.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (27 Aug 2016)

Looks like a strong break.


----------



## brommers (27 Aug 2016)

View: https://youtu.be/_V2uZwtQ6p0

This is what they've got to look forward to today


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2016)

Gap at nine minutes. Unless someone start a chase soon this is going to the breakaway again.


----------



## smutchin (27 Aug 2016)

My wife, who has no interest in cycling and is doing her knitting while I watch the Vuelta, just expressed disgust at Carlton Kirby's commentary.


----------



## smutchin (27 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Gap at nine minutes. Unless someone start a chase soon this is going to the breakaway again.



#unpunditable


----------



## philk56 (27 Aug 2016)

They're almost walking up. Think I'd be crawling!


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2016)

Has Quintana attacked. Good grief!


----------



## smutchin (27 Aug 2016)

View: https://youtu.be/T9hSpijwWCY


----------



## Crackle (27 Aug 2016)

Froome cracked there.


----------



## rich p (27 Aug 2016)

That's thrown the cat amongst the pigeons


----------



## coffeejo (27 Aug 2016)

Finally!


----------



## brommers (27 Aug 2016)

I think that Chavez is holding Yates up in the GC.


----------



## Bonus (28 Aug 2016)

That last couple of km's looked tough! 

So AC took time on CF and NQ took time on both of them! Was great to watch. 

Next weekend they will be passing close to where we live - so we will go and watch.


----------



## HF2300 (28 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Froome cracked there.



Did indeed - just before Contador backed off, I thought Quintana looked a lot more comfortable than Froome, even allowing for Froome's usual drunken spider riding style.

Contador cracked then recovered, as Boulting said, or just backed off to keep himself out of the red and get a breather?

While still on the flat the race passed through Quintanilla - obviously an omen!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (28 Aug 2016)

A few pundit picks in today's break


----------



## Crackle (28 Aug 2016)

Do you think we will enjoy the spectacle of a team controlling the race anytime soon?


----------



## rich p (28 Aug 2016)

David de la Cruised to victory and the red jersey.
Probably lose it tomorrow but I haven't actually looked at the profile yet


----------



## rich p (28 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Do you think we will enjoy the spectacle of a team controlling the race anytime soon?


I'm assuming we'll get some more conventional racing when there are longer climbs but I wouldn't bank on it


----------



## rich p (28 Aug 2016)

Hmmm, looked at the profile and I suspect the hard last two climbs after a relatively benign 80% of the race will mean that the GCers will let a breakaway go again.
Are Ettix man enough, or convinced de la Cruz can keep the jersey with such a small lead? Maybe they'll have a go given that it's a rest day next.


----------



## Crackle (28 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Hmmm, looked at the profile and I suspect the hard last two climbs after a relatively benign 80% of the race will mean that the GCers will let a breakaway go again.
> Are Ettix man enough, or convinced de la Cruz can keep the jersey with such a small lead? Maybe they'll have a go given that it's a rest day next.


Given the previous stages, I doubt it. Fingers in the air, draw lots.


----------



## suzeworld (29 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> My wife, who has no interest in cycling and is doing her knitting while I watch the Vuelta, just expressed disgust at Carlton Kirby's commentary.



Why? What did he say?


----------



## philk56 (29 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Given the previous stages, I doubt it. Fingers in the air, draw lots.


Gap's closing. I think they'll be caught.


----------



## philk56 (29 Aug 2016)

Froome in trouble?


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2016)

Well he's struggling but that's no surprise really - I expect he will close the gap between now and the finish, even if he doesn't catch them. Hats off to Contador for sticking with it after his crash.


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2016)

I think Froome has taken the lesson from the last summit finish and is riding on power.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think Froome has taken the lesson from the last summit finish and is riding on power.



Agreed - and already closing the gap. Also the chance that if Quintana and Contador play a bit of cat and mouse, that plays into Froome's hands.

This was the kind of racing the Tour was lacking, all very entertaining.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Why? What did he say?



Something to do with biscuits.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2016)

This is classic Froome - looks great


----------



## philk56 (29 Aug 2016)

Great racing!


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2016)

Quintana needs to stop looking at Contador.


oh he has, good.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2016)

Quintana looking really good


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2016)

Contador gone. Shame Froome is pulling Valvpiti up.


----------



## Buddfox (29 Aug 2016)

I think Froome will do well to limit his losses to Quintana to 20 seconds.


----------



## smutchin (29 Aug 2016)

Buddfox said:


> the kind of racing the Tour was lacking, all very entertaining.



Shame Quintana didn't bring this form to the Tour.


----------



## buyruk (29 Aug 2016)

Froome seems to be performing well, especially considering the amount of race days and travels over the past 2 months. The key is - if he can keep this up and maybe even perform better the next 10 days (especially the ITT) he can win the whole thing. But it is still possible that all the racing will take its toll and he'll become tired towards the end of the race.


----------



## 400bhp (29 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> Shame Quintana didn't bring this form to the Tour.


 The official line was that he was ill wasn't it?


----------



## 400bhp (29 Aug 2016)

Go Nairo. Would like to see him win


----------



## coffeejo (29 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> The official line was that he was ill wasn't it?


Was it? I missed that. The last few days have reminded me why I like Quintana: was really disappointed in France.


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2016)

So what can Froome afford to give away before Stage 19's 37k TT. I think if it slips outside 1.30 to Quintana he's had it. And he normally fades in week 3 but he's not normally riding himself in. I still think the Vuelta is his Nemesis and his best chance was in 2011. I stand ready for Rich to eat my hat though.


----------



## Crackle (29 Aug 2016)

And wtf is Talansky actually planning!


----------



## buyruk (29 Aug 2016)

On the other side, if Quintana can keeps this up, he can win a grand tour in front of Froome and Contador, finally proving his potential.


----------



## Bonus (29 Aug 2016)

What an amazing last few km's! 

NQ - fantastic performance.
CF - paced himself out of trouble, same as he always does :-)
AC - gutsy ride. He doesn't give up easily.

Can't wait for Wednesday now!


----------



## coffeejo (29 Aug 2016)

Did we ever find out why Froome dropped back? Urgent toilet break?


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> And wtf is Talansky actually planning!


Ché?


----------



## rich p (29 Aug 2016)

Quietly decent riding by Simon Yates and Peter Kennaugh, who is punching above his weight, considering the build up they've had.
Sky looks like they've made a bollix by letting Konig leave,


----------



## brommers (29 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> And he normally fades in week 3


When?


----------



## brommers (29 Aug 2016)

buyruk said:


> On the other side, if Quintana can keeps this up, he can win a grand tour in front of Froome and Contador, finally proving his potential.


He's won the Giro


----------



## brommers (29 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Go Nairo. Would like to see him win


Why?


----------



## buyruk (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> He's won the Giro



That's why I said, in front of Froome and Contador. That's the key.


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Sky looks like they've made a bollix by letting Konig leave,



Didn't know that. Shame. He's hardly had a chance, though I was surprised he wasn't in the Tour team - guess his numbers don't add up.


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> When?



2013, 2015

He arguably did fade to some extent towards the end of the Tour this year as well, but none of his rivals were strong enough to capitalise.


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Why?



Why not?


----------



## smutchin (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> He's won the Giro



...in a year when Nibali, Contador and Froome focused on the Tour.

Although, tbh, I don't think winning this Vuelta would prove much about Quintana that we didn't know already. Froome is clearly feeling the effects of a long season, while Contador is looking like a rider whose best days are behind him.


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> Didn't know that. Shame. He's hardly had a chance, though I was surprised he wasn't in the Tour team - guess his numbers don't add up.


I'm wondering now if I didn't imagine it! Or it was an unsubstantiated rumour.


----------



## HF2300 (30 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> So what can Froome afford to give away before Stage 19's 37k TT. I think if it slips outside 1.30 to Quintana he's had it



If Quintana was serious in interview, he wants 3 minutes over Froome to be certain. Suspect it was a half-joking reference to the difference in their TT form though.



Bonus said:


> CF - paced himself out of trouble, same as he always does :-)



Don't know if I'm entirely convinced by this - is there evidence that Froome was in trouble? He was distanced by Movistar, but it seemed from what I saw that he was doing the usual Sky ride by the numbers, rather than that he was in trouble on the early slopes. Admittedly I'm only going by the highlights, which can be misleading.

One thing I've never seen anyone point out, and I think is interesting, is that Froome's tactic of 'you need to do X numbers to achieve Y' is pretty much exactly the same technique the Team GB pursuiters use on the track.



smutchin said:


> Although, tbh, I don't think winning this Vuelta would prove much about Quintana that we didn't know already. Froome is clearly feeling the effects of a long season, while Contador is looking like a rider whose best days are behind him.



Must admit I was thinking this a couple of days ago about Quintana's first attack (when you posted the 'baby I'm back' clip). I wonder how 'back' he is - he looks more effortless than the others, but perhaps because of their limitations rather than because he's in significantly better form than the Tour. Having said that, I do think we might see him lift his game again, not necessarily because of physical form but because the Covadonga win will have given him a psychological boost.


----------



## HF2300 (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> I'm wondering now if I didn't imagine it! Or it was an unsubstantiated rumour.



You did manage to convince me at the start of this thread that Purito was entered, much against my better judgement as I knew full well he'd said the Olympics was his last race. I think you just chuck these things in to see if we're paying attention.


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> You did manage to convince me at the start of this thread that Purito was entered, much against my better judgement as I knew full well he'd said the Olympics was his last race. I think you just chuck these things in to see if we're paying attention.


 In my defence, he was in the bookies odds!

Here's where I saw the Konig reference
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...ve-bora-hansgrohe-officially-confirmed-269698

_...Czech Leopold König will return to Bora, where in 2014 he placed seventh in the Tour de France, after two years with Team Sky..._


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Don't know if I'm entirely convinced by this - is there evidence that Froome was in trouble? He was distanced by Movistar, but it seemed from what I saw that he was doing the usual Sky ride by the numbers, rather than that he was in trouble on the early slopes. Admittedly I'm only going by the highlights, which can be misleading.
> 
> One thing I've never seen anyone point out, and I think is interesting, is that Froome's tactic of 'you need to do X numbers to achieve Y' is pretty much exactly the same technique the Team GB pursuiters use on the track.


That was what I thought (on the basis of no evidence whatsoever) was going on - that Froome was watching the numbers on his stem and not the race, Sky having calculated beforehand what he needed to do to get his best time, leaving others to see if they could better it.

That was a very beautiful setting I thought.

This is quite entertaining. I hope Quintana can hang on.


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Don't know if I'm entirely convinced by this - is there evidence that Froome was in trouble? He was distanced by Movistar, but it seemed from what I saw that he was doing the usual Sky ride by the numbers, rather than that he was in trouble on the early slopes. Admittedly I'm only going by the highlights, which can be misleading.
> 
> One thing I've never seen anyone point out, and I think is interesting, is that Froome's tactic of 'you need to do X numbers to achieve Y' is pretty much exactly the same technique the Team sky



Is the covadonga a very consistent gradient? From experience riding by numbers is pretty hard tI when the gradient pitches and steepens.

If froome was in top form he wouldn't be doing what he's doing.


----------



## brommers (30 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Is the covadonga a very consistent gradient?


The profile is on page 13 of the thread. Different gradients and even a couple of small descents.


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> The profile is on page 13 of the thread. Different gradients and even a couple of small descents.


But reasonably consistently steep


----------



## Crackle (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Why?


All answered before I got back to the thread. You're only missing a 'Who' from the line up and maybe a 'where'.


----------



## Crackle (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Ché?


I'm sure I read he had a plan but so far he's been a bit Schleck like, we know he's in the race.........


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I'm sure I read he had a plan but so far he's been a bit Schleck like, we know he's in the race.........


Yes, the invisible man like, Teejay van Who?


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Yes, the invisible man like, Teejay van Who?


Teejay van Gardeningleave?


----------



## HF2300 (30 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Is the covadonga a very consistent gradient? From experience riding by numbers is pretty hard tI when the gradient pitches and steepens.



It's generally fairly sensible on the lower section at around 7% - 9%, though with ramps up to 12% - 14% in places, but then the last 4km gets strange and lumpy with a couple of downhill recovery sections.

Interestingly the point he appeared to be pacing himself and keeping his domestiques to that pace was on the lower, more regular slopes.



400bhp said:


> If froome was in top form he wouldn't be doing what he's doing.



I don't quite follow what you mean by that, though as you say it's pretty clear he's not generally in top form - he's pretty much said that himself; but I was really just commenting on his Covadonga ride.

I just felt the commentators were quick to say Froome had blown or had a problem half way up Covadonga just because he was off the back of the Movistar group, but it seemed to me there wasn't evidence for that, and it was quite possible (and typical Froome) that he was riding by the numbers and not caring that Movistar were going all out, and into the red, to drop him. He seems to have confirmed that:



Chris Froome said:


> I just rode the climb at the best pace I felt was the efficient way to get up there and according to how I thought the legs were feeling ... regardless of what was going on around me. I was just riding at the pace that I felt was most appropriate for a climb, for a 35 minute effort and I could see guys I was going past being blown from the front and they maybe started off a bit fast, so I used my team-mates the best I could and they did a great job today.


----------



## brommers (30 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> You're only missing a 'Who' from the line up and maybe a 'where'.


I'm working on that
Doesn't get any easier. Froome winning the stage finishing up the Peña Cabarga in 2011

View: https://youtu.be/uT8DdEdhy0A


----------



## 400bhp (30 Aug 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I don't quite follow what you mean by that, though as you say it's pretty clear he's not generally in top form - he's pretty much said that himself; but I was really just commenting on his Covadonga ride.
> :


A couple of points on what I meant:
The only other time I've seen him pace like that is on La vuelta in 2014 when he was returning from injury (eventually placed second behind contador). So it would appear he wouldn't choose to do this.

Secondary, it feels more a form of defence than attack. Convention says you ride off the front to win. Furthermore you defend when you're winning.

What I would say is that doing this really affirms his current dominance at the top. His competitors just cannot tell if and when he is beaten.


----------



## brommers (30 Aug 2016)

Go to Google earth for a great aerial view of the route up to the Mirador de Pena Carbaga


----------



## Twizit (30 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Is the covadonga a very consistent gradient? From experience riding by numbers is pretty hard tI when the gradient pitches and steepens.
> 
> If froome was in top form he wouldn't be doing what he's doing.





HF2300 said:


> It's generally fairly sensible on the lower section at around 7% - 9%, though with ramps up to 12% - 14% in ...
> 
> I just felt the commentators were quick to say Froome had blown or had a problem half way up Covadonga just because he was off the back of the Movistar group, but it seemed to me there wasn't evidence for that, and it was quite possible (and typical Froome) that he was riding by the numbers and not caring that Movistar were going all out, and into the red, to drop him. He seems to have confirmed that:



I think the live commentary (Eurosport) was a bit mis-leading and they jumped to the conclusion that Froome had blown. The highlights program on ITV4 with Ned and Millar was more instructive and their commentary (presume with some hindsight?) seemed to be more on the ball in that Froome was pacing himself up, knowing that he wasn't in top nick and therefore it was his best chance to limit any losses on this climb. Interviews with other Sky team members post stage seemed to back this up I thought.


----------



## Andrew_P (30 Aug 2016)

I am enjoying this in the 7pm ITV4 HD slot as much if not more than the TdF - sorry no expert punditry from me, just had to say it!


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2016)

Tomorrow's stage again looks like a flattish 160km with a nutjob wall at the end. 
This parcours is not entirely to my taste. Are they trying too hard to differentiate it from the TdF?


----------



## themosquitoking (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Tomorrow's stage again looks like a flattish 160km with a nutjob wall at the end.
> This parcours is not entirely to my taste. Are they trying too hard to differentiate it from the TdF?


I don't think so, differentiating it can only be a good thing. Why not have three GTs all suited to slightly different types of rider?


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Aug 2016)

And on the subject of riding to the numbers ....
_Quintana calls for power meters to be banned from racing

'They take away a lot of spectacle and make you race more cautiously,' says Vuelta leader_

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-calls-for-power-meters-to-be-banned-from-racing/


----------



## rich p (30 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> And on the subject of riding to the numbers ....
> _Quintana calls for power meters to be banned from racing
> 
> 'They take away a lot of spectacle and make you race more cautiously,' says Vuelta leader_
> ...


Says the man who wheelsucked around France in July!


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> And on the subject of riding to the numbers ....
> _Quintana calls for power meters to be banned from racing
> 
> 'They take away a lot of spectacle and make you race more cautiously,' says Vuelta leader_
> ...


And Froome's ''boring'' racing in the TdF spoilt the whole tour? Don't think so. Quintana was the boring one apart from about 100 metres climbing in one stage - at least I can only remember one attack seriously undertaken by him.


----------



## mjr (30 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Says the man who wheelsucked around France in July!


Ah, was Quintana trying a new power meter and now he's suffering buyer's remorse?


----------



## brommers (30 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Quintana calls for power meters to be banned from racing


Why does he choose to have one then?


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Why does he choose to have one then?


Because the others do?

Although he's obviously just having a sly pop at Froome, it's an interesting thought. I imagine that if they were banned from racing many modern racers would be all at sea. I guess that TT-ing without a power meter is a whole world different to TT-ing with one (not that I would know)


----------



## Crackle (30 Aug 2016)

I think Quintana is engaging in a bit of gamesmanship. Valvpiti must have told him to do it.


----------



## mjr (31 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think Quintana is engaging in a bit of gamesmanship. Valvpiti must have told him to do it.


Oh, then I do hope Froome chooses to point out that Quintana's never won a tour with Valvpiti in the team.


----------



## 400bhp (31 Aug 2016)

He isn't really talking specifically about froome, it's as much about the team tactics. Ride at e.g. 400w on the front until you fall away.

It's worthy of debate, just like reducing team sizes or removing race radios.


----------



## 400bhp (31 Aug 2016)

mjr said:


> Oh, then I do hope Froome chooses to point out that Quintana's never won a tour with Valvpiti in the team.



Well he's only won one so it's hardly a trend is it.


----------



## mjr (31 Aug 2016)

400bhp said:


> Well he's only won one so it's hardly a trend is it.


He's won seven, including one grand tour. Never with the team leader there.


----------



## 400bhp (31 Aug 2016)

mjr said:


> He's won seven, including one grand tour. Never with the team leader there.



Oh I don't count the piddly stuff.


----------



## brommers (31 Aug 2016)

Looking at google earth, the first 3/4 of the climb doesn't look too technical, with some long straightish roads. The last 1/4 is a lot more twisty-turny, so expect to see gaps between the riders - should be good.


----------



## SWSteve (31 Aug 2016)

Quintana should shut up and race in July. He could have been less conservative and actually tried something, instead of staring at Froomes perky arse


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Quintana should shut up and race in July. He could have been less conservative and actually tried something, instead of staring at Froomes perky arse


Perky


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2016)

Unless Contador has had steak for dinner, it's hard to know why Tinkoff are pulling the break back.


----------



## Crackle (31 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Unless Contador has had steak for dinner, it's hard to know why Tinkoff are pulling the break back.


have they all got contracts for next year?


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> have they all got contracts for next year?


Maybe not but they ain't going to win this stage anyway!


----------



## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

rich p said:


> Unless Contador has had steak for dinner, it's hard to know why Tinkoff are pulling the break back.


YATES: "TODAY LOOKS PERFECT FOR CONTADOR TO GO FOR A STAGE WIN"
Tinkoff is working at the front of the bunch with the idea to offer Alberto Contador the possibility to fight for stage victory at Peña Cabarga. 
Sean Yates (Tinkoff team director): "We had a good rest day by the sea. It was a real pleasure for us and the riders. Alberto is still taking things day by day with the goal of improving his GC and make up a little bit of the time he lost. But there's also room for a stage win. The goal for someone like Alberto is not to be third or fourth overall, but to win. If he keeps fighting at the front for the GC, there is also a chance that he can go for a stage win and today looks like a perfect day just to do that."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2016)

Good to see one of my flair picks is the last man left of the breakaway


----------



## brommers (31 Aug 2016)

Frooooooome


----------



## Crackle (31 Aug 2016)

Froome pretty determined to repeat history there. Great finish.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (31 Aug 2016)

brommers said:


> Frooooooome


He really wanted that one!


----------



## Twizit (31 Aug 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> He really wanted that one!



and the 10 second time bonus


----------



## brommers (31 Aug 2016)

I thought that Froome had about 2 seconds on Quintana, but they were given the same time


----------



## roadrash (31 Aug 2016)

what a finish, all that work by tinkoff, i dont think bertie will be the star at the dinner table tonight (unless its sirloin on the menu)


----------



## smutchin (31 Aug 2016)

Well, I turned on the telly just in time to see Froome coming round the final bend to cross the finish line - initially thought I was watching a repeat of 2011 until I realised that was Quintana behind him, not Cobo. Shall definitely have to watch the highlights later. 

Nice response from Froome in the post-race interview to the question about banning power meters - "Yeah, sure, and why don't we go back to single speed as well!"

He seemed to really enjoy that win.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (31 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> Well, I turned on the telly just in time to see Froome coming round the final bend to cross the finish line - initially thought I was watching a repeat of 2011 until I realised that was Quintana behind him, not Cobo. Shall definitely have to watch the highlights later.
> 
> Nice response from Froome in the post-race interview to the question about banning power meters - "Yeah, sure, and why don't we go back to single speed as well!"
> 
> He seemed to really enjoy that win.


Yes, I enjoyed his riposte too. He's getting a bit feisty, that Froome!


----------



## roadrash (31 Aug 2016)

solid tyres too, then they wouldnt need all them wheels on top of the team car


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2016)

Froomedawg seemed to enjoy that win!


----------



## coffeejo (31 Aug 2016)

I whooped. Woke up the dog.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> I whooped. Woke up the dog.


Don't let it happen again. Feel free to wake up the dog anytime, lazy buggers.


----------



## coffeejo (31 Aug 2016)

Marmion said:


> Don't let it happen again. Feel free to wake up the dog anytime, lazy buggers.


Sorry. I try to avoid getting enthusiastic about these things.


----------



## smutchin (31 Aug 2016)

Last time Froome won on Peña Cabarga, I was surreptitiously watching at work and had to bite my knuckles pretty hard to stifle my excitement. That still rates as one of the most exciting bike races I have ever seen.


View: https://youtu.be/uT8DdEdhy0A


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (31 Aug 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Sorry. I try to avoid getting enthusiastic about these things.


Always best to maintain a level of decorum. No reason to lower oneself to the behaviour of johnny foreigner.


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2016)

So Tinkoff dragged the break back all day, so that Sky & Froome and Movistar & Quintana could take advantage of a free ride.
Muppets.


----------



## Guyincognito76 (31 Aug 2016)

So, Nairo believes that the power meters should be banned? I can't say I disagree, but I wouldn't stop there: ban the radios too. None of these 'advances' make the racing anymore interesting.


----------



## themosquitoking (31 Aug 2016)

I think he just said banned from some races. Why not mix it up a bit? Some with some without, you know, like the olympic events and drugs.


----------



## rich p (31 Aug 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Some with some without, you know, like the olympic events and drugs.


----------



## Bonus (31 Aug 2016)

Nice finish by Froome today. That last climb looked awful!


----------



## AndyRM (1 Sep 2016)

Has Quintana complained about power meters before? Seemed a bit of a random gripe to me, but I've not been following as closely as I have previously.


----------



## Dogtrousers (1 Sep 2016)

AndyRM said:


> Has Quintana complained about power meters before? Seemed a bit of a random gripe to me, but I've not been following as closely as I have previously.


I think it was a journo fishing (successfully). "Hey, Nairo, what about those power meters, eh? They should be banned, shouldn't they?"


----------



## User169 (1 Sep 2016)

AndyRM said:


> Has Quintana complained about power meters before? Seemed a bit of a random gripe to me, but I've not been following as closely as I have previously.



It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating joke in response to a question about what he needs to do to beat Froome. I think it all got a bit lost in translation by the English language media.


----------



## mjr (1 Sep 2016)

DP said:


> It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating joke in response to a question about what he needs to do to beat Froome. I think it all got a bit lost in translation by the English language media.


I'm not so sure. That's two days running that he's made similar comments. I think he's trying to play up the "boring Sky riding to the numbers" legend, to distract from just being taken in a summit finish sprint like a novice.


----------



## 400bhp (1 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> I'm not so sure. That's two days running that he's made similar comments. I think he's trying to play up the "boring Sky riding to the numbers" legend, to distract from just being taken in a summit finish sprint like a novice.


Summit sprint. Don't be so silly.


----------



## Guyincognito76 (1 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> Summit sprint. Don't be so silly.



The 'complaint' was about Monday's race, not yesterday's.


----------



## mjr (1 Sep 2016)

Guyincognito76 said:


> The 'complaint' was about Monday's race, not yesterday's.


Quintana repeated the power meter comments after yesterday's finish, seen on itv4 and reported in the cycling podcast. Froome replied by suggesting that they should try racing on singlespeeds too.


----------



## smutchin (1 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> Quintana repeated the power meter comments after yesterday's finish, seen on itv4 and reported in the cycling podcast. Froome replied by suggesting that they should try racing on singlespeeds too.



Although again Froome's comments were in reply to a fishing question from a journo rather than off the cuff.


----------



## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> So Tinkoff dragged the break back all day, so that Sky & Froome and Movistar & Quintana could take advantage of a free ride.
> Muppets.


which makes a change from Movistar riding like loons all day, during the first week and watching somebody else win.

I'm no expert, but neither team seems to have a successful strategy. Sky seem to use their riders a little more intelligently. They certainly do less work.


----------



## Guyincognito76 (1 Sep 2016)

The 'problem' seems to be that Quintana and Contador thought they had dropped Froome and pushed themselves into the red (Alberto more obviously than Nairo) whilst Chris was really just playing a computer game.


----------



## smutchin (1 Sep 2016)

Guyincognito76 said:


> whilst Chris was really just playing a computer game.



You'd think the other teams would have cottoned on by now. 

Dan Martin talked about this in the Tour, admitting that he was reckless to attack when he did, knowing that he would blow up and get caught (as he invariably did), but that he couldn't help himself and wanted to animate the race. Which is admirable in itself but not a great tactic for winning races against the methodical approach of Sky.


----------



## Crackle (1 Sep 2016)

This is an interesting break with two Sky riders in it. Movistar will be nervous of this and want to control it I reckon, which will wear them out on the front before the final climb.


----------



## Hont (1 Sep 2016)

Guyincognito76 said:


> ... whilst Chris was really just playing a computer game.



Just a personal opinion but I think the whole power meter thing is irrelevant. It's mainly levelled at Froome because of Sky's approach and the fact that he looks down a lot when riding. But if you took it away he'd still look down when riding and I imagine someone of his experience can measure an effort on a climb he's done before without one.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (1 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> You'd think the other teams would have cottoned on by now.
> 
> Dan Martin talked about this in the Tour, admitting that he was reckless to attack when he did, knowing that he would blow up and get caught (as he invariably did), but that he couldn't help himself and wanted to animate the race. Which is admirable in itself but not a great tactic for winning races against the methodical approach of Sky.


So true of how he races, though. Great courage, entertaining, but often foolhardy. On the other hand, sometimes it works....


----------



## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> This is an interesting break with two Sky riders in it. Movistar will be nervous of this and want to control it I reckon, which will wear them out on the front before the final climb.


It's delicious. Sky have become a much more interesting team this year. They're mixing it up a little. And maybe, just maybe, one of those two will be allowed to go for the stage win. Or maybe not. Which makes it even more delicious.


----------



## brommers (1 Sep 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> So true of how he races, though. Great courage, entertaining, but often foolhardy. On the other hand, sometimes it works....


Enjoy watching Dan and we can see him in the ToB


----------



## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

well! Another opportunity for Quintana ceded? Or is he resting up for the 14th stage?


----------



## Crackle (1 Sep 2016)

14 is a monster but tomorrow is not exactly easy and could be one to spring a GC surprise even if it goes to a breakaway, though the last few stages have seen the breakaways reeled in. Who knows, fizzle or pop?


----------



## smutchin (1 Sep 2016)

14 is the one that goes over the Aubisque, isn't it? Tough stage.


----------



## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> 14 is a monster but tomorrow is not exactly easy and could be one to spring a GC surprise even if it goes to a breakaway, though the last few stages have seen the breakaways reeled in. Who knows, fizzle or pop?


don't forget snap, and, whatever you do, never forget @Crackle !



smutchin said:


> 14 is the one that goes over the Aubisque, isn't it? Tough stage.



I've done that one. It ain't so tough. (I might have been going a bit slow, mind)


----------



## smutchin (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I've done that one. It ain't so tough. (I might have been going a bit slow, mind)



I've just been writing a piece about the Aubisque, and based on my research for that I'd agree that it's probably nowhere near as tough as the Tourmalet, although I think the Vuelta is approaching from the harder west side rather than via the Soulor from the east. Probably easier if you stay on the road as well, unlike Wim Van Est.

Looks absolutely stunning though - one I'd love to ride more than write about.

Also it's one of several lumpy bits on that stage and maybe not so easy at racing speed...


----------



## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

it is nowhere near as tough as the Tourmalet, although the west side is, as you say, the toughest. It chucked it down when I rode it, and, dear reader, I got so cold i wet myself and didn't even care......

Then again, the western approach to the Tourmalet, now out of favour, is the tougher climb, albeit I have absolutely no clue how they stay on their bikes when they descend! I got kissed on both cheeks by a stubbly French guy at the top of the Tourmalet, so it has its compensations.

As you say - stage 14, taken as a whole, is, potentially, a horror. That, surely, is where the thing will be won or lost.


----------



## brommers (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> well! Another opportunity for Quintana ceded? Or is he resting up for the 14th stage?


Why do you think that it was a missed chance by Quintana?


----------



## Dogtrousers (2 Sep 2016)

Today's stage by inrng http://inrng.com/2016/09/vuelta-stage-13-preview-dantxarinea/

"A hilly stage ..." for a change.


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Today's stage by inrng http://inrng.com/2016/09/vuelta-stage-13-preview-dantxarinea/
> 
> "A hilly stage ..." for a change.


The longest stage as well, right before the queen stage. It's not subtle the Vuelta.


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2016)

Just to fill you in on my day.
8am, one hour MTB ride on the S Downs.


Crackle said:


> The longest stage as well, right before the queen stage. It's not subtle the Vuelta.


No but they've miscalculated again by chucking it in at this point.
Peloton @ 18 minutes with 125km to go.


----------



## Buddfox (2 Sep 2016)

Just turned this on - it looks like the breakaway might stay away today... 

19:43 gap with 86km to go


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Just to fill you in on my day.
> 8am, one hour MTB ride on the S Downs.
> 
> No but they've miscalculated again by chucking it in at this point.
> Peloton @ 18 minutes with 125km to go.


Yep, best placed rider an hour down on GC, so this is going to remain a procession


----------



## brommers (2 Sep 2016)

Romain Cardis, who is last, is in the breakaway and Sean Kelly said that you can easily pick him out, he's the one with the best tan


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Just to fill you in on my day.
> 8am, one hour MTB ride on the S Downs.
> 
> No but they've miscalculated again by chucking it in at this point.
> Peloton @ 18 minutes with 125km to go.


None of the 10 rank outsiders I stuck 2p made the break of rank outsiders. I don't believe it!


----------



## roadrash (2 Sep 2016)

A whole 2p ...... see it just isn't true what they say about Scots being prudent


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2016)

There's a Gatis Smuckulis in the break. A Roman legionary name from the Life of Brian I'm sure.


----------



## brommers (2 Sep 2016)

Lagutin has won the max points for the 1st two climbs and could be KoM by the end of today


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2016)

Hard to believe that none of the wasters I picked in the punditry bothered making the break either


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> There's a Gatis Smuckulis in the break. A Roman legionary name from the Life of Brian I'm sure.


I looked at him as a rank outdsider bet but he wasns't rank outside enough


----------



## brommers (2 Sep 2016)

Lagutin again. If he's first over the last climb he'll have the polka dot jersey


----------



## smutchin (2 Sep 2016)

Just switched the telly on... you know what, I reckon the breakaway might just do it today.


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2016)

Smukulis was VIIII'th


----------



## SWSteve (2 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> Smukulis was VIIII'th



IX?


----------



## SWSteve (2 Sep 2016)

Half hour for the win! Who is this fella, Floyd Llandis


----------



## Crackle (2 Sep 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> IX?


Maybe.....


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Sep 2016)

Conti was 150/1 on bet365 last night. I didnae bet on him. But I know some people who did


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (2 Sep 2016)

Have the peloton arrived yet?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Sep 2016)

Just read on twitter that Conti's grandfather, Noe Conti, used to be a teammate of Fausto Coppi


----------



## coffeejo (2 Sep 2016)

I like that Gary is describing today as "an easy day"!


----------



## rich p (2 Sep 2016)

Big one tomorrow. I don't think that a breakaway will stick


----------



## Supersuperleeds (3 Sep 2016)

Today's stage doesn't look too difficult


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Big one tomorrow. I don't think that a breakaway will stick


What? You don't think that de Gendt will clean up the 45 KoM points then?


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

I didn't realise it, but just noted the race is live on Eurosport at 11am today


----------



## 400bhp (3 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just read on twitter that Conti's grandfather, Noe Conti, used to be a teammate of Fausto Coppi



Conti looked bl00dy good yesterday. Deffo one to keep an eye on.

I was expecting Formolo to be the great Italian this year but he's been pants.


----------



## 400bhp (3 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> I didn't realise it, but just noted the race is live on Eurosport at 11am today


 ta for that. telly duly turned on


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2016)

On live now on Eurosport, full stage coverage! I'm heading out at 12


----------



## 400bhp (3 Sep 2016)

Blimey, it literally is the coverage from the start


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2016)

I absolutely love seeing the stage from the off.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (3 Sep 2016)

Brilliant already!! Only 15 minutes before I have to go out...


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

I reckon we'll lose about 20 riders today


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

That descent looks like one I'd be bottling


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

Another interesting positioning of the 'intermediate' sprint - after 3 cat 1 climbs


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

Who is this Jess Ink character the idiot Kirby keeps mentioning?


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Who is this Jess Ink character the idiot Kirby keeps mentioning?


The casual hubris of Kirby when he clearly knows feck all is breath-taking


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Who is this Jess Ink character the idiot Kirby keeps mentioning?


Dunno. A rider for Sean Kelly's favourite team, Ulrika Bike Exchange?


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

Go Yatesey!


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

My cellar door has fallen off but I don't want to go and try to fix it while this is all kicking off. 
Burglars welcome!


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

Beautiful scenery in the valley


----------



## iLB (3 Sep 2016)

Can we have a win for Rolland after his rotten TdF.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> Can we have a win for Rolland after his rotten TdF.


He's in the chase but it's unlikely.
Can Yates keep this up though?


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> Can we have a win for Rolland after his rotten TdF.


And what time is it out there, Andy?


----------



## iLB (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> He's in the chase but it's unlikely.
> Can Yates keep this up though?


Seems he is isolated now?


----------



## iLB (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> And what time is it out there, Andy?



21.22 - almost bed time.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

Yates is holding the gap but it hasn't kicked off yet.


----------



## iLB (3 Sep 2016)

Which team is Gesink on these days ?


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> Which team is Gesink on these days ?


Lotto Jumbo


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

A climb too far for the ageing legs of Valverde, it seems. 

Great ride by Yates so far though. Hope he can keep it up.


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

Jess-ink
Hess-ink
Yes-ink
Guess-ink
Geese-ink

Wonder if they can sneak in a few more pronunciation variants before the finish.


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

This is what the Tour was missing.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Jess-ink
> Hess-ink
> Yes-ink
> Guess-ink
> ...


It's hessing game


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Froome looks like he could go


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Oooh, I like it


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Bert has cracked as is his wont


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

Hiissink for the win


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

Froome is riding like the race leader, Quintana like the challenger. Quite bizarre.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Is Froome waiting for tomorrow or the TT


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Good win, great stage


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

Slow motion sprint


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Why the fark do they keep showing Bert


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Nice win for Gessink after all his health issues


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

That was great!


----------



## themosquitoking (3 Sep 2016)

Turning into a very entertaining race this.


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

Got to go and pick up my son from work now. Wonder if Valverde will have finished by the time I get back...


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

On an important sartorial note, that Lotto kit looks awful with the Bianchi Celeste...


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Now for Juan Antonio and the grinning chimp


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

It's a piti for Valverde, such a shame.


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

Was it just me but I didn't realise that Chaves and Konig were in front of Froome and Quintana?


----------



## iLB (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Was it just me but I didn't realise that Chaves and Konig were in front of Froome and Quintana?



Was a bit surprised by Konig. Putting himself in the shop window.


----------



## PpPete (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Was it just me but I didn't realise that Chaves and Konig were in front of Froome and Quintana?


Surprised me too, I guess they took advantage of Froome & Quintana marking each other.

Opens up some interesting tactical options for Orica tomorrow?


----------



## rich p (3 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> Was a bit surprised by Konig. Putting himself in the shop window.


I had read that he was on the move but that rumour seems to have quieted lately.


----------



## smutchin (3 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> I had read that he was on the move but that rumour seems to have quieted lately.



Yes, I read that rumour too.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

What is it about a big mtn stage like that and Valvpiti. I can't believe he just doesn't have it, it's got to be something psychological as well.

Konig has looked strong all of this tour, he's a definite future GC contender.


----------



## iandg (3 Sep 2016)

How far did Gessink go out of the saddle? He was never sitting in the highlights I've just watched.


----------



## 400bhp (3 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> What is it about a big mtn stage like that and Valvpiti. I can't believe he just doesn't have it, it's got to be something psychological as well.



As well as what?

Brilliant stage-one of the best I have seen.


----------



## Crackle (3 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> As well as what?



....a lack of something....


----------



## Dave Davenport (3 Sep 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Turning into a very entertaining race this.


La Vuelta has been the most exciting of the GT's every year for quite a while IMO.


----------



## brommers (3 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> Brilliant stage-one of the best I have seen.


Yes. I totally agree. Something happening all day long


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Sep 2016)

Allways liked the Vuelta,somehow seems less 'stressy' than the tour and been some great racing.There was a class picture on twitter yesterday of when Froome got back to Quintana and smiled at him !


----------



## PpPete (4 Sep 2016)




rich p said:


> Was it just me but I didn't realise that Chaves and Konig were in front of Froome and Quintana?





PpPete said:


> Surprised me too, I guess they took advantage of Froome & Quintana marking each other.



Chaves went when the leaders distance ticker showing 2.8km to go - I thought he'd been brought back but evidently I was wrong. And they never got a camera moto on him. One stayed with Quintana/Froome, the other sropped back with Bertie.

Heaven only knows when Konig was allowed off the leash to play on his own.


----------



## PpPete (4 Sep 2016)

Adam4868 said:


> Allways liked the Vuelta,somehow seems less 'stressy' than the tour and been some great racing. !


Shame the TV coverage is not quite up to the standard of the TdF


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

A crazy start


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Froome caught out by Bert's attack - needs to get back into the Quintana group


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

Looks like Bertie as been to the local steak house for lunch.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Sky and Orica have bollixed this


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Doesn't look like there's any immediate panic


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Gap still growing


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Froome isolated already


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Froome isolated already


Ah yes he is. I hadn't realized where his team was. Now I see why Movistar are attacking.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)




----------



## smutchin (4 Sep 2016)

This is great. Blitzkrieg tactics from Movistar and Tinkoff... or is it kamikaze?


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2016)

Froome'll be chasing his tail before too long.


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> This is great. Blitzkrieg tactics from Movistar and Tinkoff... or is it kamikaze?


Maybe the latter because they are working pretty hard. Everyone looks goosed though.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2016)

Group 2 look like they're out on a lazy Sunday club ride.


----------



## smutchin (4 Sep 2016)

Kind of lucky for Sky that Astana don't have a man in the break.


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

Cracking start but it ain't over until the fat lady sings . Looks like froome has allies in astana


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

I'm on Quintana for today's stage. Not sure if I should cash out or leave it.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> ....a lack of something....



Are we seeing the reason why today?


----------



## Twizit (4 Sep 2016)

Joining coverage a bit late today. I can sort of see what's happened and have read the comments... But what on earth happened to Sky? Looks like Froome has one team mate left but in a fairly large group. Did Tinkoff and Movistar just blow it all open so early that all the other Sky riders couldn't cope?

Interesting rest of stage for sure!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Twizit said:


> Did Tinkoff and Movistar just blow it all open so early that all the other Sky riders couldn't cope?


Pretty much.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Kirby is a farking pillock


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Kirby is a farking pillock


He's a waterfallist with an asbestos tiled head.

Meanwhile this break is going out. Froome is fooked as Sean might say in a tranqueel way.


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Has Lopez gone!


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

How can he not even recognise Lopez FFS


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> Has Lopez gone!


Looks that way - he only took one bottle I think


----------



## Dave Davenport (4 Sep 2016)

'It might be better for Froome if he's isolated'. Plank.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Froome needs to get Yates, Chaves and Scarponi to go with him on this climb to make up some distance or the stage is away


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

2 of my pundit picks are in the lead group. I'll need to get p*ssed more often!


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

Yates probably fooked after yesterday


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

Sick of hearing Kirby say I'll be bound ..........I wish he was bound and gagged


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Hard to know if this gap is coming down or if one group is going up as one is coming down the hill.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

roadrash said:


> Sick of hearing Kirby say I'll be bound ..........I wish he was bound and gagged


"Oh my days..." Does he think he's a f*cking old woman who has just found a lovely rose in a flower bed*?

*I have no idea what an old woman finding a nice rose would say, but I'd think "Oh my days..." might cover it.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

"Sean, say "O".."
"O"

"And R"
"R"

"I"
"I"

"What about C"
"C"

"..and finally A"
"A"

"O,R,I,C,A"
"O,R,I,C,A"

"ORICA"
"ULRIKA!"


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Who's going to be in turd place after today, that's what I want to know.


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

Kelly says there could be a significant time gap if they CARRY ON CONTINUING ON


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

It's Shangri La land


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

It's all getting cagey


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Ellisonde must be tiny


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2016)

Froome has to make a go of it himself. He can't just sit back and hope the gap will close by itself.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Everyone else should just stop. That would bugger Froome.


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Everyone else should just stop. That would bugger Froome.



They effectively have.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

This is great Quintana going H2H with Froome, 2 minutes apart


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Froome's cracked and Quintana is flying


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Beautiful


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Cooked and fooked Froome


----------



## Dayvo (4 Sep 2016)

A cloudy and windy day for Sky: out-thought, out maneuvered and blown away.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

That is how to beat the Sky machine. Superb, old skool racing.


----------



## iLB (4 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> That is how to beat the Sky machine. Superb, old skool racing.



It is the b team though. 

And Froome should be a little tired at this point.


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> And Froome should be a little tired at this point.



As is everyone. Quintana did the TdF too.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

I wonder if tomorrow's finish town makes their own brand of soft drink?


----------



## iLB (4 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> As is everyone. Quintana did the TdF too.



He didn't really do anything though.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I'm on Quintana for today's stage. Not sure if I should cash out or leave it.


So, did I cash out or not?


----------



## roadrash (4 Sep 2016)

i reckon you held out to the end....... you could run a poll


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> So, did I cash out or not?


Froomey and me don't give a fook


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

You didn't cash out and blew the lot.


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I wonder if tomorrow's finish town makes their own brand of soft drink?


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Like him or loathe him, Bertie never gives up. He really hammered that break at the start.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> You didn't cash out and blew the lot.


Of course I cashed out. No way was Quintana going to win...


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

More than 90 riders outside the cut-off


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> He didn't really do anything though.



Yeah, only a podium finish after allegedly being ill too.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

wicker man said:


> More than 90 riders outside the cut-off


They're being allowed to remain, not going down too well with some riders who made the effort to get within the time limit:

Jan Bakelants tweeted: "Curious for the commissaries decision in @*lavuelta* today. Peloton largely "hors délai". Allowing them to start, feels a bit like race fraud."
Moreno Moser tweeted: "What about the guys who went full gas, alone, until the finish line?"


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (4 Sep 2016)

wicker man said:


> More than 90 riders outside the cut-off


Eek, that's enormous. I assume there were a few Sky riders in that lot.

EDIT: I hadn't seen Marmion's post. I guess it would have upset a fair number of teams and sponsors....


----------



## rich p (4 Sep 2016)

Roolz are roolz unless they're inconvenient...


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> They're being allowed to remain, not going down too well with some riders who made the effort to get within the time limit:
> 
> Jan Bakelants tweeted: "Curious for the commissaries decision in @*lavuelta* today. Peloton largely "hors délai". Allowing them to start, feels a bit like race fraud."
> Moreno Moser tweeted: "What about the guys who went full gas, alone, until the finish line?"



Tough tits for Jan. The other riders were taking a gamble and it paid off this time.


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> They're being allowed to remain, not going down too well with some riders who made the effort to get within the time limit:
> 
> Jan Bakelants tweeted: "Curious for the commissaries decision in @*lavuelta* today. Peloton largely "hors délai". Allowing them to start, feels a bit like race fraud."
> Moreno Moser tweeted: "What about the guys who went full gas, alone, until the finish line?"


Safety in numbers, wouldn't expect that many to be expelled.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

As someone in twitterland said, how p*ssed off will Felline be if he finishes 3rd tomorrow behind 2 guys who didn't give a toss today?


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> As someone in twitterland said, how p*ssed off will Felline be if he finishes 3rd tomorrow behind 2 guys who didn't give a toss today?


I agree - but they're never going to eliminate 90 riders in one go are they?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

wicker man said:


> I agree - but they're never going to eliminate 90 riders in one go are they?


True. Would have been fun if they had tho. There would have been a lot of single rider teams - Froome would have been screwed, Direct Energie would not have a single rider on the startline. The riders marked in green made it within the time limit...


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> True. Would have been fun if they had tho. There would have been a lot of single rider teams - Froome would have been screwed, Direct Energie would not have a single rider on the startline. The riders marked in green made it within the time limit...


Yes, would be fun - and the decision is a complete disadvantage to the teams who made the effort - Contador and Quintana had domestiques who buried themselves while Froomes team mates took it easy - they should have been driving and pulling it all back together. Call me cynical but 'pay-off' goes thro' my mind.


----------



## Crackle (4 Sep 2016)

Was it 2013 when Sky collapsed and left Froome isolated. There's some kind of collective ball dropping going on here and it's not the first time he's been caught by an early break, didn't it happen in last years Dauphine.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (4 Sep 2016)

I reckon if they'd DQed all those out of time we'd have an even better race and it would highlighted just how "controlled" it all is - single riders or teams with a small number of riders against stronger teams would have been epic. I would have loved to have seen Froome v The World.


----------



## coffeejo (4 Sep 2016)

That looked a significantly better race than the TOB. Bloomin ITV.


----------



## coffeejo (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I reckon if they'd DQed all those out of time we'd have an even better race and it would highlighted just how "controlled" it all is - single riders or teams with a small number of riders against stronger teams would have been epic. I would have loved to have seen Froome v The World.


Did the grupetto finish outside the time during the TDF or the Giro this year?


----------



## 400bhp (4 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I would have loved to have seen Froome v The World.



We saw that today.


----------



## Buddfox (4 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> That looked a significantly better race than the TOB. Bloomin ITV.



Seems a bit harsh to compare one of the toughest mountain stages of a grand tour with the opening stage of a lower tier race... Would have been quite something if the ToB had delivered a more exciting stage :-)


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Seems a bit harsh to compare one of the toughest mountain stages of a grand tour with the opening stage of a lower tier race... Would have been quite something if the ToB had delivered a more exciting stage :-)



.and a better commetator


----------



## coffeejo (4 Sep 2016)

Buddfox said:


> Seems a bit harsh to compare one of the toughest mountain stages of a grand tour with the opening stage of a lower tier race... Would have been quite something if the ToB had delivered a more exciting stage :-)


I wasn't comparing La Vuelta to the TOB, rather the coverage. In the TOB thread, I said that the ad breaks were more interesting. I wasn't joking. They've done a much better job with the highlights.


----------



## velovoice (4 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> They've done a much better job with the highlights.


And those were pretty dismal. (Sorry, will wander over to the ToB thread now...)


----------



## gavroche (4 Sep 2016)

Froome got well and truly snookered today. He also looked tired in that stage. Quintana rode well but can he keep it up for another week as Froome is bound to attack if he still can. Exciting week to come.


----------



## themosquitoking (4 Sep 2016)

If Froome can't pull out 4 mins on the TT then all Quintana has to do is cover him.


----------



## suzeworld (4 Sep 2016)

wicker man said:


> I agree - but they're never going to eliminate 90 riders in one go are they?


Well they just SHOULD - 

SKY sat up and now they will bre fresher for the stages to come ... grrr 
Imagine Froome with no team at all! 

C'mon Quintana ...


----------



## iandg (4 Sep 2016)

suzeworld said:


> Well they just SHOULD -
> 
> SKY sat up and now they will bre fresher for the stages to come ... grrr
> Imagine Froome with no team at all!
> ...


I agree, they should and al those who have lost domestiques should go it alone.....Go Quintana!!!!


----------



## Adam4868 (4 Sep 2016)

Gutted,love Froome !


----------



## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Did the grupetto finish outside the time during the TDF or the Giro this year?


I can't recall if it happened this year, but it has happened in the past, and the Commissaires have looked the other way.

While this is not quite the same thing, a lot of teams treated stage 13 as a rest day. What could the organisers do?


----------



## smutchin (5 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I can't recall if it happened this year, but it has happened in the past, and the Commissaires have looked the other way.



Conversely, has there ever been an example of the commissaires chucking out riders en masse in such a situation?



Marmion said:


> I reckon if they'd DQed all those out of time we'd have an even better race and it would highlighted just how "controlled" it all is - single riders or teams with a small number of riders against stronger teams would have been epic.



I dunno, I reckon it would have made it too easy for Movistar to control affairs and totally kill off any attempts at racing.

They need to look for more creative ways to persuade riders that it's in their interest to finish inside the time limit. How about this: if more than half the team finish OTL, the whole team gets the time of the slowest rider?


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

I think the number finishing outside the time limit says a whole lot about the stages and their difficulty. It's simply overload, physically and mentally. This years Vuelta has the feel of an SAS selection course, harder, longer, higher, more, more, more. Only two rest days as well, they could actually have done with a 3rd. I think ASO need to re-think how the Vuelta is defined, especially at the end of a long season so close to the worlds.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> I think the number finishing outside the time limit says a whole lot about the stages and their difficulty. It's simply overload, physically and mentally. This years Vuelta has the feel of an SAS selection course, harder, longer, higher, more, more, more. Only two rest days as well, they could actually have done with a 3rd. I think ASO need to re-think how the Vuelta is defined, especially at the end of a long season so close to the worlds.


Err, one Cat 3, one Cat 2 and a Cat 1 summit finish and the total distance was 118.5km, so hardly "overload" in terms of the stage. The riders got mugged big time by attacking riding on the front. They should have got binned. The "punishment" was all riders got 25 points deducted in the points competition. Wow.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> They need to look for more creative ways to persuade riders that it's in their interest to finish inside the time limit. How about this: if more than half the team finish OTL, the whole team gets the time of the slowest rider?



How about DQing them?


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Err, one Cat 3, one Cat 2 and a Cat 1 summit finish and the total distance was 118.5km, so hardly "overload" in terms of the stage. The riders got mugged big time by attacking riding on the front. They should have got binned. The "punishment" was all riders got 25 points deducted in the points competition. Wow.


I meant the whole thing aggregated, not just that stage but you could see the fatigue on that stage.


----------



## Dogtrousers (5 Sep 2016)

It's one of the quirks of cycling that I find interesting the commissaires are so laissez-faire with les regles. Possibly a result of its gallic heritage. 

You don't get the TMO in rugby saying "Well, yes, he did put his foot in touch, but hey, apart from that it was a good try so I've decided to let it stand."

Yesterday: total cock-up or cynical artificial rest day on the part of Sky?


----------



## brommers (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> The "punishment" was all riders got 25 points deducted in the points competition. Wow.


The biggest loser there was Meersman - particularly as he has more chances of high finishes, including today.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> I meant the whole thing aggregated, not just that stage but you could see the fatigue on that stage.


I didn't see fatigue at all. I saw a whole load of riders getting dropped by attacking riding.

edit - I understand that riders will be tired, that's one of the side effects of a Grand Tour. But yesterday was not collective fatigue.


----------



## GuyBoden (5 Sep 2016)

The strong breakaway group was just too fast for the Sky team to catch. In the GC, Quintana was superb, Esteban Chaves rode well too, especially on that final climb. A nice trip to the seaside next on the stage 16.


----------



## smutchin (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> How about DQing them?



It's an option!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> It's an option!


The problem with seeking "more creative ways" is that they'll not apply the rules, like they don't apply the current ones.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

You need very special eyebrows to be able to get them matching your hairstyle


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I didn't see fatigue at all. I saw a whole load of riders getting dropped by attacking riding.
> 
> edit - I understand that riders will be tired, that's one of the side effects of a Grand Tour. But yesterday was not collective fatigue.


I saw both. Coupled with a hard late tour, staffed by riders at the end of a season, who don't have the Vuelta as a first choice GT aim backed up by teams who may not have the strength in depth of a Tour or even Giro team, else I don't think you'd have seen such a large group just amble in. In fact I can't recall the last time such a large group were so late, though I'm sure there was one.


----------



## smutchin (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> The problem with seeking "more creative ways" is that they'll not apply the rules, like they don't apply the current ones.



The current rule is unenforceable. What I mean about being more creative is they should try to come up with rules that are both enforceable and come with a meaningful punishment.

Easier said than done, I know.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Oh look, a small group of fatigued riders has got a 3 minute lead...


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> The current rule is unenforceable. What I mean about being more creative is they should try to come up with rules that are both enforceable and come with a meaningful punishment.
> 
> Easier said than done, I know.


Easily enforceable - DQ everyone not making the time limit. Or get rid of the rule.


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Oh look, a small group of fatigued riders has got a 3 minute lead...


The others are too exhausted to chase!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> The others are too exhausted to chase!


About 70 of them will be


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> The others are too exhausted to chase!


2 of the 6 riders in the breakaway made the time limit yesterday.


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> 2 of the 6 riders in the breakaway made the time limit yesterday.


I was ferking waiting for you to go through the list and post that


----------



## rich p (5 Sep 2016)

I thought I'd stumbled into the minutes of a UCI regulation meeting


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> I was ferking waiting for you to go through the list and post that


I'm off work and bored. Eurosport coverage starts soon tho, so that should divert my attention.


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I'm off work and bored. Eurosport coverage starts soon tho, so that should divert my attention.


The breaks still at two minutes, coz they're all fooked


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> The breaks still at two minutes, coz they're all fooked


They cannae be as tired as they were yesterday


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

I see the riders are exchanging pleasantries.

"How are you?"
"Tired"
"Yeh, me too"
"What about those fools yesterday, eh?"
"I know, time limits. Hahahahaha..."


----------



## coffeejo (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> I see the riders are exchanging pleasantries.
> 
> "How are you?"
> "Tired"
> ...


"Is marmion spitting feathers yet?"


----------



## Crackle (5 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> "Is marmion spitting feathers yet?"


Chewing wasps.


----------



## brommers (5 Sep 2016)

I'm waiting for Carlton to say something about Peniscola - "well you make your mind up"


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (5 Sep 2016)

The first 13 riders in today's stage were all too fatigued yesterday to make an effort...

Chaves wins! Well, he was 14th and finished in time yesterday.


----------



## iLB (5 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> Yeah, only a podium finish after allegedly being ill too.


 
Valid but for someone that was a pre race favourite he arguably didn't hit a peak of form in France, which can be giving him the edge now.


----------



## mjr (5 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Easily enforceable - DQ everyone not making the time limit. Or get rid of the rule.


Change the rule. The combination of short mountain-dense stages and a time limit based on percentages means the time cut is unrealistically tight. The non climbers lose more time on climbing miles and the current stage weighting doesn't allow enough for that.

What about Sky's DS accusing Tinkoff and Movistar of exploiting a crash yesterday to cause the break and Tinkoff's DS accusing Sky of having paid Astana to help chase?


----------



## brommers (5 Sep 2016)

The race officials have warned the teams that anyone finishing more than 2hrs and 30 minutes behind the stage winner on Wednesday will be deemed to be OTL and withdrawn from the race.


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (6 Sep 2016)

During the Vuelta earlier on Eurosport, they were talking about the Tour of Qatar and I heard the lines

'If you have never been to Qatar and like mountains..... Don't go, it's awful'.

'The place is so flat you can double your elevated view by standing on a phone directory. I was once there and saw what I thought were black mountains in the distance. I asked what they were and after a bit of confusion, was informed that it was something about 150 meters away from me, you really have no sense of scale there!'.


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2016)

Mad Doug Biker said:


> 'The place is so flat you can double your elevated view by standing on a phone directory. I was once there and saw what I thought were black mountains in the distance. I asked what they were and after a bit of confusion, was informed that it was something about 150 meters away from me, you really have no sense of scale there!'.


A Fenman or Hollander to win the world championships while everyone else falls over disorientated, then? If you'd like to enjoy riding this very challenging cycling landscape for yourself, our flipping flat Holland hundred on 17 Sep has been posted on the recreational rides forum


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

I had a dig around and found the underlying time limit regulation in a UCI document. It presumably gets adapted by different events:

_2.3.039 Any rider finishing in a time exceeding that of the winner by more than 8% shall not be placed. The time limit may in exceptional circumstances be increased by the commissaires panel in consultation with the organiser._

How crap is that? It admits defeat before it even starts. "Here's the rule but we might ignore it if we feel that way inclined, because it's not a very good rule."



brommers said:


> The race officials have warned the teams that anyone finishing more than 2hrs and 30 minutes behind the stage winner on Wednesday will be deemed to be OTL and withdrawn from the race.



And now they are forced to say "you know that rule, the one we ignored the other day? Well, we don't propose to ignore it on Wednesday. (Or do we?)"


----------



## coffeejo (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> The race officials have warned the teams that anyone finishing more than 2hrs and 30 minutes behind the stage winner on Wednesday will be deemed to be OTL and withdrawn from the race.


Let me guess, the cut off point is 120 minutes?


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Let me guess, the cut off point is 120 minutes?



According to the itinerary, they expect the stage winner to take about 5hrs. I'm no maths genius but even I can work out that 2.5hrs is rather more than 8% of that time.


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2016)

I'm sure I've seen time limit amendments by stage category in the TdF race rules. Are the Vuelta's rules online?


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

Yes, I was just looking that up myself. The cutoff is dependent on the difficulty of the stage and the speed of the winner. For tomorrow's stage, the cutoff is likely to be +12% of the winner's time. 

Full details here (page 8):
http://netstorage.lequipe.fr/ASO/cyclisme/la-vuelta/2016/reglements/V16-Reglamento-ES-FR-EN-v4_.pdf


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> And now they are forced to say "you know that rule, the one we ignored the other day? Well, we don't propose to ignore it on Wednesday. (Or do we?)"



The rule works fine most of the time but it isn't designed to cope with a go-slow protest by more than half the peloton.

It's not the rule that's broken, it's the race.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Sep 2016)

They got battered by attacking riding, not the difficulty of the stage


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2016)

The 2 and a half hours was supposed to be a witty jibe - Marmion got it.


----------



## coffeejo (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> The 2 and a half hours was supposed to be a witty jibe - Marmion got it.


Mine was meant to be a witty follow up. It crashed and burned. IGMC.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> The rule works fine most of the time but it isn't designed to cope with a go-slow protest by more than half the peloton.
> 
> It's not the rule that's broken, it's the race.


Well, the rule failed to act as a deterrent, allowing riders to take it easy, so it would seem that the regulations don't act as a sufficient deterrent.

But your point that it works fine most of the time is good. Every now and then something unusual and exceptional happens and we all get our knickers in a twist and shout that something must be done. Then forget all about it and await the next unusual and exceptional event.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> The 2 and a half hours was supposed to be a witty jibe - Marmion got it.


It whooshed over my head. You need to underline these things with heavy handed use of smileys. Subtlety will get you nowhere.


----------



## Spinney (6 Sep 2016)

In the Tour, hasn't Cav and other sprinters come in outside the cut-off time on mountain stages and they've been allowed to stay in? With no crashes or other 'excuses' for taking a long time.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> The 2 and a half hours was supposed to be a witty jibe - Marmion got it.



I got it too! My maths comment was supposed to be a subtle hint.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Well, the rule failed to act as a deterrent, allowing riders to take it easy, so it would seem that the regulations don't act as a sufficient deterrent.



The socialist in me is rather happy that the riders are able to assert their rights to fair working conditions over the tyranny of the race organisers.


View: https://youtu.be/DwbzxemJZIc


----------



## Mad Doug Biker (6 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> A Fenman or Hollander to win the world championships while everyone else falls over disorientated, then? If you'd like to enjoy riding this very challenging cycling landscape for yourself, our flipping flat Holland hundred on 17 Sep has been posted on the recreational rides forum



I better not, I might crash into a molehill or something..... 


Really though they said that on Eurosport


----------



## lyn1 (6 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yes, I was just looking that up myself. *The cutoff is dependent on the difficulty of the stage and the speed of the winner. *For tomorrow's stage, the cutoff is likely to be +12% of the winner's time.
> 
> Full details here (page 8):
> http://netstorage.lequipe.fr/ASO/cyclisme/la-vuelta/2016/reglements/V16-Reglamento-ES-FR-EN-v4_.pdf



And there lies one of the problems as it ignores what has happened previously. If you bang together stage after stage after stage that involves tough climb after climb after climb then you have built a race for a dozen or so guys. It is no surprise that a large number of the remaining 180 riders are already heavily fatigued.


----------



## roadrash (6 Sep 2016)

if they dont enforce the rules then the rules are pointless, yes it has happened before where sprinters have come in after the time limit but been allowed to continue in the race, but it shouldnt happen , riders and team managers , and the team DS, all know the rules AND the course well in advance.and know how much each rider has put into the season so far.
if you cant take the heat then keep out of the kitchen . ( im in the living room by the way )

i just dont see the point of having rules if they dont enforce them.

tired or not i think sky were just beat by better tactics and racing that day


----------



## Aravis (6 Sep 2016)

I hope the organisers consider this carefully for the future. I actually feel quite cheated at not seeing a race where the field is cut in half and where some of the leaders literally would have had no team - quite a spectacle, and refreshingly out of the ordinary. Seems to me they've thrown it away.


----------



## cisamcgu (6 Sep 2016)

Aravis said:


> I hope the organisers consider this carefully for the future. I actually feel quite cheated at not seeing a race where the field is cut in half and where some of the leaders literally would have had no team - quite a spectacle, and refreshingly out of the ordinary. Seems to me they've thrown it away.


In a way, I agree, but it would also have meant, I think, that Movistar would have been pretty much unassailable, so spoiling the possible spectacle


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

It has indeed happened before - that the grupetto has come in late and been given a reprieve because it is so large (and contains some star sprinters).

But it has also happened that individual riders have been cut very harshly. I remember an American guy (name escapes me - not a star rider) in the Tour a few years ago who missed the cut by seconds, having ridden some of the stage with a serious injury (shoulder or elbow or something) and yet still got booted off. And yet there are counter examples of heroic struggles to the finished being given merciful reward and not being eliminated.

My point being, that if it's left up to the whim of the commissaires, then some cases inevitably end up being unfair. Far better to formulate a rule that actually works. (I don't have any suggestions, btw)

Edit: Done a bit of googling. The American guy I was thinking of was Ted King of Cannondale. He was actually eliminated at the end of a TTT, a slightly different situation. http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...mination-from-tour-sends-wrong-message_293232


----------



## roadrash (6 Sep 2016)

but the point is , thers no point having any rules at all unless they are actually applied


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

Give that man a bunch of keys and a peaked cap.


----------



## Aravis (6 Sep 2016)

Although it has happened many times before, and sometimes individual riders have been harshly treated, I can't remember a case where the decision has so profoundly affected the make-up of the race. As it happens, barring misfortune I think Quintana is more or less home anyway, but suppose Froome had kept his losses to around a minute?


----------



## rich p (6 Sep 2016)

If they enforced the rule once it would probably be enough to ensure it didn't occur again. 
It's possible that they can make the parcours too tough sometimes but that wasn't the reason this incident happened. 
I wonder if there would be as much discussion if Sky weren't involved though or Jan Bakelants wasn't on Twitter!


----------



## uncle_adolph (6 Sep 2016)

Aravis said:


> Although it has happened many times before, and sometimes individual riders have been harshly treated, I can't remember a case where the decision has so profoundly affected the make-up of the race. As it happens, barring misfortune I think Quintana is more or less home anyway, but suppose Froome had kept his losses to around a minute?



The 2011 Tour - Stage 18.....nearly 90 riders missed the cut (including Cav who was in the green jersey) but were reinstated and docked 20 points. Cav went on to win the jersey in Paris.

So there clearly is a precedent.


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

uncle_adolph said:


> The 2011 Tour - Stage 18.....nearly 90 riders missed the cut (including Cav who was in the green jersey) but were reinstated and docked 20 points. Cav went on to win the jersey in Paris.
> 
> So there clearly is a precedent.


Thanks for the reminder. I knew there was a cause celebre involving Cav and the green jersey. Saved me googling.


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

uncle_adolph said:


> The 2011 Tour - Stage 18.....nearly 90 riders missed the cut (including Cav who was in the green jersey) but were reinstated and docked 20 points. Cav went on to win the jersey in Paris.



I believe that was the one where Movistar stated the day before that they were intending to ride hard with the specific intention of eliminating Cav, in order to get the green jersey for Rojas.

Great racing tactics but the problem comes when you ride so hard that you put a big chunk of the field OTL. Whether you agree with the reasons or not, they're never going to let that happen.


----------



## Crackle (6 Sep 2016)

The rules are the rules and the commissaires are there to interpret them. Adherence of fools, guidance of wise men etc......


----------



## Aravis (6 Sep 2016)

uncle_adolph said:


> The 2011 Tour - Stage 18.....nearly 90 riders missed the cut (including Cav who was in the green jersey) but were reinstated and docked 20 points. Cav went on to win the jersey in Paris.
> 
> So there clearly is a precedent.


I remember that well. In fact I think Cavendish was let back in twice that year. As the points jersey competition had effectively been rigged to let Cavendish win I suppose they had little choice.

However, without spending a lot of time listing out all the riders to see what would have happened to the teams of the GC contenders had the elimination been applied, I don't know whether we'd have had disappearing teams as we would have had this time. I'm going to have to do it now...


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> And yet there are counter examples of heroic struggles to the finished being given merciful reward and not being eliminated.]


Paul Sherwen 1985 riding six hours solo after a first-kilometre crash and missing the limit by 20-odd minutes, to give one well-documented example.



Mad Doug Biker said:


> I better not, I might crash into a molehill or something.....


It's the river bridges you have to watch for, particularly the last arch bridge at 94 miles...



> Really though they said that on Eurosport


That nobber Carlton Kirby's from hill country, isn't he?



Marmion said:


> They got battered by attacking riding, not the difficulty of the stage


Well, yes, but if I was awake and hearing correctly, Koen de Kort on http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/vuelta-stage-16 argued that once such a climber-heavy break had gone so early, the amount of climbing (about 47km, including 33.3km categorised, in a 118.5km stage) made it pretty much a theoretical impossibility for the sprinters to finish within the time limit, so those teams who'd really missed out agreed to sit up and try to keep the groupetto too big to exclude, almost as a sort of protest and solidarity with their teammates.

I'm quite surprised no-one's agreeing with Sky's DS that it was a bit dodgy of Tinkoff and Movistar using Tosh van der Sande's crash to make that early split permanent!


----------



## smutchin (6 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> But it has also happened that individual riders have been cut very harshly. I remember an American guy (name escapes me - not a star rider) in the Tour a few years ago who missed the cut by seconds, having ridden some of the stage with a serious injury (shoulder or elbow or something) and yet still got booted off. And yet there are counter examples of heroic struggles to the finished being given merciful reward and not being eliminated.
> 
> Edit: Done a bit of googling. The American guy I was thinking of was Ted King of Cannondale. He was actually eliminated at the end of a TTT, a slightly different situation. http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...mination-from-tour-sends-wrong-message_293232



There was also the case of Taylor Phinney in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013. It was already a tough stage, but then the weather turned nasty. Even when the rest of the gruppetto abandoned, Phinney ploughed on alone for four hours in the most appalling conditions, eventually finishing 35 minutes behind the stage winner. If ever there were a case of a rider deserving leniency as a reward for his sterling efforts, it was him.

The bastards eliminated him, of course.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...tional-four-hour-solo-quest-at-tirreno_277623


----------



## Dogtrousers (6 Sep 2016)

An INRNG on the subject. http://inrng.com/2014/07/tour-de-france-time-cut-calculation/


----------



## Aravis (6 Sep 2016)

Having revisited the records for the 2011 Tour, I'm reminded that an important difference, compared with the current race, is that when those mass reinstatements took place there wasn't much left for the teams to do. The GC race was largely unaffected.


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> Well, yes, but if I was awake and hearing correctly, Koen de Kort on http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/vuelta-stage-16 argued that once such a climber-heavy break had gone so early, the amount of climbing (about 47km, including 33.3km categorised, in a 118.5km stage) made it pretty much a theoretical impossibility for the sprinters to finish within the time limit, so those teams who'd really missed out agreed to sit up and try to keep the groupetto too big to exclude, almost as a sort of protest and solidarity with their teammates.


_"After a 7 hour mountain stage, it was really really tough the next day to have a little 3km, 4km climb right from kilometre zero and just there, the best climbers in the world decide to attack each other. The bunch basically split with two groups of great riders chasing each other and the group behind, we knew that we had no chance. ... It was basic maths. We were not gonna make it. We knew it straight away. We saw that the time cut was only gonna be about half an hour and we would lose, in that group, fifteen minutes on the last climb and by the time we would start riding and, you know, keep pace, we knew that we were not gonna make it.

What we decided to do was all stick together, safety in numbers, knowing that they weren't going to take us all out, looking after each other and making sure we would all stay together. We can all race full gas and we have a group that misses the time cut by five minutes and a group by ten minutes and a group by twenty minutes and I think we ride our own teammates and our own colleagues home, for the sole purpose of riding them home, not for making time cut because we weren't gonna make it anyway."_


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> almost as a sort of protest


Protest against what - the race being too hard?


----------



## brommers (6 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> made it pretty much a theoretical impossibility for the sprinters to finish within the time limit


There isn't any sprinters


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> There isn't any sprinters


True enough, but eliminating so many riders would mean any GT future for la Vuelta would be severely compromised, if not over. Protests at disqualifications, irate sponsors, future vetos, the world class sprinters don't even bother any more, etc, etc. A mountain goat slug fest is not going to be a Grand Tour. More importantly, it's not even going to remain a big public interest. A very big hill climb is what it risked becoming.


----------



## mjr (6 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> Protest against what - the race being too hard?


Basically, yes, against a combination of stage length and climbing setting a time limit half the field won't make. OK, it's not as memorable as the protests led by Lapize or Hinault, but it's still a protest.


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2016)

Tour de France 2006, stage 17, St Jean de Maurienne to Morzine, 201km. If the time limit had been strictly applied that day, around 100 riders would have been eliminated from the race.

And we all know who crossed the line first, don't we? A certain hearing aid salesman from Pennsylvania, hmmm?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Tour de France 2006, stage 17, St Jean de Maurienne to Morzine, 201km. If the time limit had been strictly applied that day, around 100 riders would have been eliminated from the race.
> 
> And we all know who crossed the line first, don't we? A certain hearing aid salesman from Pennsylvania, hmmm?


Yes, I was at that stage. The autobus were so far behind that day people were starting to think they'd all got off! When they eventually arrived (on final small climb before descent into Morzine) people had started milling about the road and they narrowly escaped ploughing into several people (myself and daughter included) as there were no outriders ahead of them.


----------



## iLB (7 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Tour de France 2006, stage 17, St Jean de Maurienne to Morzine, 201km. If the time limit had been strictly applied that day, around 100 riders would have been eliminated from the race.
> 
> And we all know who crossed the line first, don't we? A certain hearing aid salesman from Pennsylvania, hmmm?



He sells Marijuana now right ?


----------



## suzeworld (7 Sep 2016)

iLB said:


> He sells Marijuana now right ?



Medicincal use only.


----------



## mjr (7 Sep 2016)

smutchin said:


> Tour de France 2006, stage 17, St Jean de Maurienne to Morzine, 201km. If the time limit had been strictly applied that day, around 100 riders would have been eliminated from the race.
> 
> And we all know who crossed the line first, don't we? A certain hearing aid salesman from Pennsylvania, hmmm?


What are you trying to say about Quintana and Contador?


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2016)

mjr said:


> What are you trying to say about Quintana and Contador?


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (7 Sep 2016)

TVG abandons


----------



## Crackle (7 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> TVG abandons


They have all drank deep from the fountains of Peniscola, apart from Teejay, it seems.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2016)

User said:


> stage 19 TT from Javia/Xabia and stage 20 Benidorm / Alto de Aitana both areas are in the mist of wildfires, the Javia/Xabia wildfire is still not under control,


pffftt....wildfires! Back when I was a kid, we had snow.... (Francesco Moser, the 20th stage, 1965 Giro)


----------



## smutchin (7 Sep 2016)




----------



## Hacienda71 (7 Sep 2016)

Anyone notice the large cock and balls with a smilie face painted on the final climb? Ned and David seemed to miss it in their commentary.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (7 Sep 2016)

Hacienda71 said:


> Anyone notice the large cock and balls with a smilie face painted on the final climb? Ned and David seemed to miss it in their commentary.



Something like this:






or this?


----------



## Adam4868 (8 Sep 2016)

Hacienda71 said:


> Anyone notice the large cock and balls with a smilie face painted on the final climb? Ned and David seemed to miss it in their commentary.


Watching with kids last night when the first bit of enthusiasm from my 12 year old son was"dad did you see that massive knob on the road ?" !!


----------



## Twizit (9 Sep 2016)

Thread's gone a bit quiet. All done and dusted? Does no one believe Froome is going to pull back 3 1/2 minutes today


----------



## Incontinentia Buttocks (9 Sep 2016)

40 seconds up so far.


----------



## Twizit (9 Sep 2016)

Yup - 46 seconds at the 12.5km point.

David Millar reckoned 1 1/2 minutes should be doable, 2minutes a good result and 2 1/2 if Quintana has a really bad day. If this continues it looks like the middle of that prediction...


----------



## suzeworld (9 Sep 2016)

is it the time trail today? I missed last night's summary show. Got to say I have been rivetted, generally. Some excellent racing and drama on the GC front, compared to this year's TdF GC competition.


----------



## Incontinentia Buttocks (9 Sep 2016)

24 km, 1m 32 up. Bloody hell.


----------



## Buddfox (9 Sep 2016)

This is getting good... Froome could take more than 3 minutes here...!


----------



## Twizit (9 Sep 2016)

Yates 2'30" down so far - ouch


----------



## Buddfox (9 Sep 2016)

Ok I got a it excited there - thought the time trial was much longer than it is - but stil, some ride from Froome


----------



## Incontinentia Buttocks (9 Sep 2016)

Tic toc tic toc......


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2016)

2.16!


----------



## Buddfox (9 Sep 2016)

But Quintana's still got to be odds on for the overall surely


----------



## Incontinentia Buttocks (9 Sep 2016)

Tomorrow should be a tad exciting!


----------



## Twizit (9 Sep 2016)

Buddfox said:


> But Quintana's still got to be odds on for the overall surely



This - but it would be lovely if Sky give it a good go from the off and don't just try to defend 2nd place.


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2016)

Buddfox said:


> But Quintana's still got to be odds on for the overall surely


Agree it's unlikely but with a 21km climb at the end it is a possibility. 
Quintana has looked the strongest rider on the MTFs so far for sure.


----------



## Buddfox (9 Sep 2016)

From Froome's interview it sounds like they will go for it but who knows. I think Froome has done enough in his career to be prepared to risk a second for the chance to win.

But I think it will need a great race from Sky and for Quintana to blow up for the deficit to be over-turned.


----------



## coffeejo (9 Sep 2016)

Really enjoyed that. Apart from the view of Froome from the motorbike following him. Especially when Ned said something about "squeezing one out"...


----------



## rich p (9 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Really enjoyed that. Apart from the view of Froome from the motorbike following him. Especially when Ned said something about "squeezing one out"...


 Good heavens!


----------



## Dave Davenport (9 Sep 2016)

I hope the Sky, OBE and Tinkoff DS's are on a conference call this evening.


----------



## gavroche (9 Sep 2016)

I think all Quintana has to do now is shadow Froome all the way and let Contador escape no more than 3 minutes ahead . Simple.


----------



## brommers (10 Sep 2016)

Tv coverage from 11am today


----------



## coffeejo (10 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> Tv coverage from 11am today


Only on Eurosport, I assume?


----------



## brommers (10 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Only on Eurosport, I assume?


There is live streaming on as well Jo
https://www.procyclinglive.com/livestream/


----------



## HF2300 (10 Sep 2016)

brommers said:


> Tv coverage from 11am today



Out today, highlights again for me. Shame as it's likely to be a real fireworks stage, or ought to be - all too often fireworks turn out to be damp squibs.


----------



## Dayvo (10 Sep 2016)

I'm at a wedding all day, but I'll try and watch the five hours or so (maybe) late this evening. 

Should be a cracking day, with both teams/captains knowing exactly what they HAVE to do.


----------



## HF2300 (10 Sep 2016)

Dayvo said:


> I'm at a wedding all day, but I'll try and watch the five hours or so (maybe) late this evening.
> 
> Should be a cracking day, with both teams/captains knowing exactly what they HAVE to do.



Well, all teams, really, since you'd hope Tinkoff & Orica would want a say in things as well. Given the lumpy stage and large-ish time gaps to close, leaving it to the last minute might not be enough. Seems to be agreed the roads are quite well known - will that deter attacks or play into teams' hands?


----------



## Dayvo (10 Sep 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Well, all teams, really, since you'd hope Tinkoff & Orica would want a say in things as well.



Sorry wasn't clear: Sky and Froome & Moviestar and Quintana being the likely nos. 1 and 2.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

I like to see the early skirmishing of a stage but I can't sit on my bum all day!


----------



## coffeejo (10 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> I like to see the early skirmishing of a stage but I can't sit on my bum all day!


This is me, getting on with some important work that I've been putting off for ages...


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

coffeejo said:


> This is me, getting on with some important work that I've been putting off for ages...


I'm going to buy some bread. Then pop back to the telly to check out what's happening, maybe a cuppa. Then do something in the garden before popping back indoors...
...and so it goes...


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

Well I'm going to buy some eggs and bacon whilst we're on the subject.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Sep 2016)

See, now you've distracted me from My Work.


----------



## coffeejo (10 Sep 2016)

More distractions: a sudden silence. Either my computer or all the live streams have decided that it's not exciting enough. I'll listen to / watch the paracycling instead and wait for the highlights. Enjoy the heart-in-the-mouth cycling that will now be heading your way from Spain.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Sep 2016)

Kirby - "Sorry I missed Froome there, I was busy looking at my notes"...

He uses notes????!!!!


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

Another cracker from Kirby...........well Sean, today is like a Rubik's cube


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Fraile's bike showing Frailety


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

I'm on an interim TV bit in my daily chores but, in all honesty, buying a loaf of bread pretty much covers domesticity today.


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

I've eaten my eggs and bacon, what's happening...?


----------



## BSRU (10 Sep 2016)

Very nasty looking crash for Rojas but could have been a whole lot worse


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

Broken ankle ...... ouch


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Is this going to kick off before the last climb?


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

. Bit quite innit.


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

Hhmm 5000 km of climbing Carlton Kirby says,....... bit much that


----------



## albal (10 Sep 2016)

Keeping an eye on thi s whilst watching t mighty dolphins attempt to beat Eastbourne Borough. Is that correct peloton 11mins from the front?


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

Another nob ed fan


----------



## BSRU (10 Sep 2016)

A "fan" more concerned with the tv camera takes out a cyclist


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> Is this going to kick off before the last climb?


It has to. In fact I was expecting Sky to set the tempo all day. Maybe Froomedawg has settled for 2nd.


----------



## BSRU (10 Sep 2016)

Looks like Chaves is having a real go at getting that podium place.


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

It's all going to kick off in the last 6k amongst the rest I guess.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Christ these commentators are fecking useless


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Not saying Froome won't try and take some time, but he won't gain the time he needs from here.

Hats off to Chaves for having a go - Contador has looked on the limit since day 1 so he's got a shot at this.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Froome is leaving it for a breakaway to Madrid


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Froome doesn't look like he's got anything left, at this point he's surely better off defending second


----------



## BSRU (10 Sep 2016)

Sky attack at last


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Lopez needs to bury himself for about 1km now...


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

He's having a go


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

And again - he's not leaving much out there


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

At least he had a dig. Futile though it was almost sure to be


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Atapuma's got mad eyes


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Latour giving it everything


----------



## BSRU (10 Sep 2016)

Unfortunately too little too late


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

This is a great finish - Latour coming back?


----------



## Dogtrousers (10 Sep 2016)

Wow! Great finish


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

Latour!! I thought his batteries had run out but he's a proper Duracell bunny.


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Now to check Chaves' time...


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Blimey he looked cooked!


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Jeez, Froome is going again! This is great - Quintana covering easily but still...


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Chaves finishes at 3:17, how much does he need to gain over Contador, 1:20?


----------



## Buddfox (10 Sep 2016)

Classy clap from Froome; great ride from Chaves to take third by 13 seconds


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

13sec to Chavez. Wow!


----------



## 400bhp (10 Sep 2016)

Nairo Nairo Nairo

Does Latour have the worst climbing style eva?

Well done Chaves. Contador looked really gutted.


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

400bhp said:


> Contador looked really gutted


Hah!


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

Is Contador still going to continue in 2017 or is he back to retiring?


----------



## rich p (10 Sep 2016)

Crackle said:


> Is Contador still going to continue in 2017 or is he back to retiring?


I think he's signed for Trek


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

rich p said:


> I think he's signed for Trek


Oh yes I forgot. I can never remember who rides for Trek or what they win but somehow they are comfortably in the middle of the World Tour points table. Mainly thanks to Cancellara and Mollema.


----------



## Crackle (10 Sep 2016)

But not Frank.


----------



## Dogtrousers (10 Sep 2016)

If he's riding Latour will deffo be in my fantasy team for le Tour - given that I generally go for riders with good names.


----------



## Andrew_P (10 Sep 2016)

Latour, that is some nodder!!


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Sep 2016)

BSRU said:


> Very nasty looking crash for Rojas but could have been a whole lot worse





roadrash said:


> Broken ankle ...... ouch



Just seen a pic on twitter of his injury. I wish I hadn't.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Sep 2016)

Nearing the end of a GT, have a burger and chips






Some appear hungrier than others...


----------



## roadrash (10 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Just seen a pic on twitter of his injury. I wish I hadn't.



yeah so have i , wish i hadnt,  thats got to hurt


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (10 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> Nearing the end of a GT, have a burger and chips
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More ravenous and jovial dinner guests


----------



## BSRU (11 Sep 2016)

From watching the whole of the live coverage yesterday, it seemed to me Sky had settled for second place but tried something very late on just in case Quintana was so fatigued from the ITT that he would instantly blow up on the last part of the last climb. Unfortunately for Sky Quintana looked effortless at the end.
I think Quintana and Froome have been fairly evenly matched but Movistar played a blinder on stage 15 while Sky made a very costly school boy tactical error exacerbated by the fatigue from the previous stage.


----------



## coffeejo (11 Sep 2016)

I'm glad to see Quintana back on form and hope he remembers to pack it before heading to Dusseldorf next year. I was impressed by Froome's reaction as Quintana crossed the line yesterday. Froome might be a bit dull and all elbows but he seems a decent bloke, though I'm sure _that_ spectator from the TDF disagrees!


----------



## Aperitif (11 Sep 2016)

An 'extended' team time trial from Sky today should surprise Quintana and grab back the missing seconds needed for a Froome victory.


----------



## Adam4868 (11 Sep 2016)

Froome does what he does,and most of the time that involves winning.I guess a second place is not good enough for some.Bit give the guy credit where's it's due.It was a great Vuelta and but for a "off day" by his team there's no doubt for me he would have won.


----------



## mjr (11 Sep 2016)

La Challenge is on. https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/la-madrid-challenge-by-la-vuelta-spoilers.207034/


----------



## roadrash (11 Sep 2016)

Quintana just put a champagne glass in his jersey pocket. I would fancy falling off with that against my back


----------



## themosquitoking (11 Sep 2016)

Adam4868 said:


> Froome does what he does,and most of the time that involves winning.I guess a second place is not good enough for some.Bit give the guy credit where's it's due.It was a great Vuelta and but for a "off day" by his team there's no doubt for me he would have won.


But for stage two in the tour be France last year quintana would have won, on such things are a bike race won and lost. The rest of this isn't in relation to your post but I'm going to say it here anyway. For me it's inconceivable that Quintana won't win la tour at some point, even if they have to design one for him like they did with Wiggins, and that will complete all three GTs for him, I cannot imagine Froome even entering the Giro let alone winning it so no matter how many TDFs Froome wins he'll never be the cyclist Quintana is.


----------



## Adam4868 (11 Sep 2016)

Id say that's your opinion,not one I'd agree with.I agree team sky are a dominant force and a tough cookie to crack.But it can be done as we have just seen.But as a rider I don't think Froome is really below Quintana.Where do you get this Froome can never be the cyclist quintana is ? Three tours,olympic medal.Lets not forget the time trial,which incidentally Quintana did say he wasn't going to lose time on ? I'm glad he won by the way,it made for exiting racing and a great Vuelta.But as they say everyone has a opinion......


----------



## HF2300 (12 Sep 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> ... even if they have to design one for him like they did with Wiggins...



I keep seeing this said. Sky undoubtedly targeted a Tour that suited Wiggins, just as they and other teams have targeted GTs that suit their lead riders on other occasions. That's a long way from a particular Tour being designed specifically for Wiggins. It seems unlikely the ASO would deliberately design a parcours to put a particular rider in yellow when their best interests are served by having a competitive race.


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## themosquitoking (12 Sep 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I keep seeing this said. Sky undoubtedly targeted a Tour that suited Wiggins, just as they and other teams have targeted GTs that suit their lead riders on other occasions. That's a long way from a particular Tour being designed specifically for Wiggins. It seems unlikely the ASO would deliberately design a parcours to put a particular rider in yellow when their best interests are served by having a competitive race.


What if, at the time, the best interests of cycling was to have a British winner? Since then the Brits have been winning an awful lot of cycling, track and road, and getting the British public engaged with it was a master stroke.


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## dellzeqq (12 Sep 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I keep seeing this said. Sky undoubtedly targeted a Tour that suited Wiggins, just as they and other teams have targeted GTs that suit their lead riders on other occasions. That's a long way from a particular Tour being designed specifically for Wiggins. It seems unlikely the ASO would deliberately design a parcours to put a particular rider in yellow when their best interests are served by having a competitive race.


David Millar did say Prudhomme designed this year's TdF with Froome in mind, although the Pyrennean stages were supposed to keep the GC tight.


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## Crackle (12 Sep 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I keep seeing this said. Sky undoubtedly targeted a Tour that suited Wiggins, just as they and other teams have targeted GTs that suit their lead riders on other occasions. That's a long way from a particular Tour being designed specifically for Wiggins. It seems unlikely the ASO would deliberately design a parcours to put a particular rider in yellow when their best interests are served by having a competitive race.


I think it's both. Without a doubt ASO cater to the riders of the day and the audience of the day. They've courted UK cycling for the last few years because the audience and the money are growing here. Two ITT's and a minimum of high mtn finishes were extremely favourable to an emerging Wiggins and Sky team.


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## mjr (12 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> David Millar did say Prudhomme designed this year's TdF with Froome in mind, although the Pyrennean stages were supposed to keep the GC tight.


Not exactly the same thing as designing it _for_ Froome, though. It's probably a very good idea to think who the likely competitors will be, if you want to try to make for a close race finish.

Also, Thierry Gouvenou is route designer. Prudhomme is race director. I'm sure they coordinate, but I'd expect Gouvenou to be designing the route.


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## dellzeqq (12 Sep 2016)

well, what Prudhomme apparently said, according to Millar, was that that the Tour needed heroes, and that he thought that Froome was a hero, and that, in consequence, he wanted a route that would suit him.

Good to see last Sunday's ToB stay clear of the bike lanes!


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## mjr (12 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> Good to see last Sunday's ToB stay clear of the bike lanes!


Apart from the painted feeder ones at the southern end of Whitehall


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## themosquitoking (12 Sep 2016)

Adam4868 said:


> Id say that's your opinion,not one I'd agree with.I agree team sky are a dominant force and a tough cookie to crack.But it can be done as we have just seen.But as a rider I don't think Froome is really below Quintana.Where do you get this Froome can never be the cyclist quintana is ? Three tours,olympic medal.Lets not forget the time trial,which incidentally Quintana did say he wasn't going to lose time on ? I'm glad he won by the way,it made for exiting racing and a great Vuelta.But as they say everyone has a opinion......





Adam4868 said:


> Id say that's your opinion,not one I'd agree with.I agree team sky are a dominant force and a tough cookie to crack.But it can be done as we have just seen.But as a rider I don't think Froome is really below Quintana.Where do you get this Froome can never be the cyclist quintana is ? Three tours,olympic medal.Lets not forget the time trial,which incidentally Quintana did say he wasn't going to lose time on ? I'm glad he won by the way,it made for exiting racing and a great Vuelta.But as they say everyone has a opinion......


Because Quintana will win all three GTs and there is one Froome will never enter.


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## Adam4868 (12 Sep 2016)

You sure ? No didn't think so.I think Froome had a good enough 2016 not to worry too much.As I said before I'm not doubting Quintana or how good he is.I'm doubting your comment "froome will never be the cyclist Quintana is".So we're saying the tour/dauphine was made for Froome but the Vuelta wasn't ? I didn't really hear Froome complain too much,but I did hear Quintana edgy/panicky about Froome at the start of the Vuelta.For someone who is probably one of the best Grand tour riders in recent years you seem to have a low opinion of him.Whilst on that note it's strange to me how many people dislike Froome.Yet everyone around him teammates etc haven't got a bad word to say of him ? Bit of jealousy ?


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## Adam4868 (12 Sep 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Because Quintana will win all three GTs and there is one Froome will never enter.


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...w_iQosBVfKzaqLR2g&sig2=QduQyOTOWlM-tzgCR_rv7Q
Never say never


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## 400bhp (13 Sep 2016)

Adam4868 said:


> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0ahUKEwiwnYOY84rPAhUoD8AKHU55ByMQFgg6MAo&url=http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/09/giro-ditalia/froome-cracks-open-door-possible-2017-giro-start_420442&usg=AFQjCNE9rkDlKBNYJw_iQosBVfKzaqLR2g&sig2=QduQyOTOWlM-tzgCR_rv7Q
> Never say never



It'd be great if he did for many reasons, not least it should be covered on terrestrial TV and we may start to educate the British Public on the other great cycling races.


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## iLB (13 Sep 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Because Quintana will win all three GTs and there is one Froome will never enter.



He finished 36th in 2009.


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## gavroche (13 Sep 2016)

Personally I think Froome is a better road cyclist than Wiggins and I like the guy. I think he is genuine and a decent person. If Quintana can keep his present form in next year's TdF , it will be very interesting indeed, not to forget Chaves and Bardet.


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## smutchin (14 Sep 2016)

themosquitoking said:


> Because Quintana will win all three GTs and there is one Froome will never enter.



And Man Utd are not a "complete" football team because they focus on the Champions League and only put out a second string XI for the League Cup.


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