# Non-Brompton folder?



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

I was initially looking for an e-folder (see thread _here_ for reasons etc) but have given up after quite a bit of research and trying several for size. They are all so damned _big - _and I'm simply too small. Under 5ft, and somewhat-oddly proportioned lengthwise, too. 
However, I have learnt that with a few contortions a step-through is not as essential as I thought it would be, and that I have a bit more use of my left foot and ankle than I thought I would have … So some good things and some not-so-good.
Now I'm on the search for an 'ordinary' folder, and obviously I want a definite step-up from the folding BSOs available in chain stores for a couple of hundred quid. I don't like Bromptons - have ridden them in the past and they're really not for me, and in addition I can't afford one, or justify spending that much. 

I live in a flat area at present; there are a fair number of quiet lanes and even - gasp! - some tarmaced bike paths around, as well as unsurfaced (but decent surface, weather dependent, if you get my meaning) ones. I need a bike with lots of adjustability on as many points as possible, 20" wheels, and preferably, but not essentially, hub gears. Less messy and fragile when folded and stored indoors or taken on public transport. Light weight is a bonus of course but I don't plan to be carrying the thing very far. So far I'm looking at Bickerton, and also at the lower price end (under £1,000) of Tern and Dahon. Other suggestions or ideas are very welcome.


----------



## FrankCrank (19 May 2021)

Here's an option:
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/folding-bikes/carrera-transit-folding-bike-361292.html

Has 3 speed Nexus hub gears, mudguards, stand and rack. Suitable for 4'10" and upwards.


----------



## Blue Hills (19 May 2021)

Have you checked out decathlon.
They used to do a rather nifty looking folder, though I have no idea how good it is.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> Here's an option:
> https://www.halfords.com/bikes/folding-bikes/carrera-transit-folding-bike-361292.html
> 
> Has 3 speed Nexus hub gears, mudguards, stand and rack. Suitable for 4'10" and upwards.


 Cheap, certainly - but is it an actual functioning bicycle, or merely a BSO?


----------



## byegad (19 May 2021)

We've had 4 Dahons.
1 had 26" wheels and is not relevant to your need. 
2 and 3 were £200, in 1999, 6 speed (derailleur) Boardwalks. Wide tyres, so good on a path as well as roads, capable even in my wife's 'not really a cyclist' hands of 30 or 40 mile rides. They folded adequately, and you can get a bag which drops over them to ensure you don't smear oil on furniture and passers-by. 
No 4 was a Speed-Pro, 24 gears with 8 derailleur and a three speed hub, with narrow high pressure tyres, which was an all day, 60+ miles machine, folding almost identically to the Boardwalks. I would still be riding that if it weren't for my balance being unreliable.


----------



## mjr (19 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Have you checked out decathlon.
> They used to do a rather nifty looking folder, though I have no idea how good it is.


I understand they are pretty good. Some models suffered hinge lock failures but I think decathlon did the right thing and replaced them new-for-old.

Also look for old Dahon designs being sold under other brands like Dawes.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Have you checked out decathlon.
> They used to do a rather nifty looking folder, though I have no idea how good it is.


If it's the one I think you're probably referring to - their Tilt 900 - it's out of stock online, and my nearest branch is Bolton - of the high C-19 incidence, so I wouldn't be going there even if I knew for certain they had one - but they can't tell me one way or the other.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

mjr said:


> I understand they are pretty good. Some models suffered hinge lock failures but I think decathlon did the right thing and replaced them new-for-old.
> 
> Also look for old Dahon designs being sold under other brands like Dawes.


Interesting about old Dahon designs being sold under different brand names. Definitely something to look out for!


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

byegad said:


> We've had 4 Dahons.
> 1 had 26" wheels and is not relevant to your need.
> 2 and 3 were £200, in 1999, 6 speed (derailleur) Boardwalks. Wide tyres, so good on a path as well as roads, capable even in my wife's 'not really a cyclist' hands of 30 or 40 mile rides. They folded adequately, and you can get a bag which drops over them to ensure you don't smear oil on furniture and passers-by.
> No 4 was a Speed-Pro, 24 gears with 8 derailleur and a three speed hub, with narrow high pressure tyres, which was an all day, 60+ miles machine, folding almost identically to the Boardwalks. I would still be riding that if it weren't for my balance being unreliable.


Thanks for that, definitely ticking the boxes there.


----------



## Blue Hills (19 May 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> If it's the one I think you're probably referring to - their Tilt 900 - it's out of stock online, and my nearest branch is Bolton - of the high C-19 incidence, so I wouldn't be going there even if I knew for certain they had one - but they can't tell me one way or the other.


Well yes i did think to add a proviso about availability but didn't as it applies to pretty much everything. I wouldn't make a decision/ restrict your choice based on the bugger of covid though. Hold out for the most suitable bike.
Will be cycling through bolton soon, but won't be stopping.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Well yes i did think to add a proviso about availability but didn't as it applies to pretty much everything. I wouldn't make a decision/ restrict your choice based on the bugger of covid though. Hold out for the most suitable bike.
> Will be cycling through bolton soon, but won't be stopping.



Yes the C-19 issue affects everything! But the bikes - or at least some of them - are out there as I've found over the past few weeks; you just have to be persistent in chasing them up. If Bolton wasn't in such a dire situation right now I'd go there on the offchance that Decathlon there might have one as I do indeed intend to get the most suitable bike for my needs and that'll probably take some finding.


----------



## steveindenmark (19 May 2021)

I have a Brompton but have also been looking at Tern bikes.


----------



## TheDoctor (19 May 2021)

Bit of a left field option but...
Have you seen the Aldi bike?
Looks very much like a Dahon, 20" wheels, 7 speed, £250 with a 60 day return policy.
Worth a punt?


----------



## chriswoody (19 May 2021)

I've owned a Term Link Uno (Single Speed) for over five years now. I commute daily on it and love it to bits, it's been super reliable and a really nice bike to ride. 

I'm not sure how tall my 7 year old son is, but he was riding it the other day with no bother, had the seat down at nearly its lowest setting and it all fitted him fine. Handlebars were possibly a little high and could be uncomfortable on longer rides?

The Uno itself is sadly no longer made, but they do an internal geared hub version in the link range. Exactly the same as mine, frame and fitting wise, just an internal geared hub. I know they used to do a 3 and 7speed, just not sure if they still do the 3 speed.


----------



## KnittyNorah (19 May 2021)

TheDoctor said:


> Bit of a left field option but...
> Have you seen the Aldi bike?
> Looks very much like a Dahon, 20" wheels, 7 speed, £250 with a 60 day return policy.
> Worth a punt?


Not at 17kg! But thanks for the thought ...


----------



## TheDoctor (20 May 2021)

17kg! I didn't notice that...


----------



## FrankCrank (20 May 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Cheap, certainly - but is it an actual functioning bicycle, or merely a BSO?


I guess one man's BSO is another man's bargain. I have seen these folders up close in Halfords, and would not describe them as a BSO. Occasionally I pop into SportsDirect, and just inside the door they have MTBs with 'full suspension', all for around 100 quid. These I _would _describe as BSOs.


----------



## KnittyNorah (20 May 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> I guess one man's BSO is another man's bargain. I have seen these folders up close in Halfords, and would not describe them as a BSO. Occasionally I pop into SportsDirect, and just inside the door they have MTBs with 'full suspension', all for around 100 quid. These I _would _describe as BSOs.


Interesting - but unfortunately, the staff in my nearest Halfords, both in-person and on the phone, are so very rude that I refuse to contribute in any way to their wages!


----------



## KnittyNorah (22 May 2021)

I'm now looking at the Tern Link D7i and the Bickerton Argent 1707 City, with the Dahon Boardwalk 'in reserve' as it were. Decisions, decisions!


----------



## Cycleops (22 May 2021)

I’ve got a Bike Friday which I like. Made in the US and consequently you won’t find many in the U.K. but they are well built and a premium product like Brompton. They come in all sorts of configurations.
Looking on the evil bay I found one which might suit you. The seller states it was made specifically for them at 5’. Even has shorter cranks. Starting at £350. They cost £1k+ new. Missing a saddle but that would allow yo to pick your own. I rpealise you can’t try before you buy but it is a good price. If you don’t like it you can sell it on.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174773168380


----------



## Blue Hills (22 May 2021)

Cycleops said:


> I’ve got a Bike Friday which I like. Made in the US and consequently you won’t find many in the U.K. but they are well built and a premium product like Brompton. They come in all sorts of configurations.
> Looking on the evil bay I found one which might suit you. The seller states it was made specifically for them at 5’. Even has shorter cranks. Starting at £350. They cost £1k+ new. Missing a saddle but that would allow yo to pick your own. I rpealise you can’t try before you buy but it is a good price. If you don’t like it you can sell it on.
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174773168380


well spotted cycleops, but is the bike friday really a folder? I had the idea (maybe mistaken) that it was rather something you could dismantle to varying degrees.


----------



## KnittyNorah (22 May 2021)

Cycleops said:


> I’ve got a Bike Friday which I like. Made in the US and consequently you won’t find many in the U.K. but they are well built and a premium product like Brompton. They come in all sorts of configurations.
> Looking on the evil bay I found one which might suit you. The seller states it was made specifically for them at 5’. Even has shorter cranks. Starting at £350. They cost £1k+ new. Missing a saddle but that would allow yo to pick your own. I rpealise you can’t try before you buy but it is a good price. If you don’t like it you can sell it on.
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174773168380


Thanks for that. I've read lots of good things about Bike Friday - and to come 'ready to use' as it were with 160mm cranks is brilliant - but I think that a well-used 22 yo bike will inevitably need more maintenance and replacement parts than even a half-decent 'new' one, and - currently at least - I'm not set up for anything other than the lightest of maintenance and cleaning jobs, which is one of the reasons I've decided to look only at bikes with a fully-sealed hub gear instead of the combo the Bike Friday seems to have. I'll keep it on watch though as it'll be interesting to see what price it reaches!


----------



## KnittyNorah (22 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> well spotted cycleops, but is the bike friday really a folder? I had the idea (maybe mistaken) that it was rather something you could dismantle to varying degrees.


 Yes good point! They look like folders but I agree with you - I've jut realised that I too have a vague idea they're 'modular' rather than 'folding' and don't they come with their own suitcases which can be used as a sort of very-small-wheeled trailer?


----------



## Blue Hills (22 May 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Yes good point! They look like folders but I agree with you - I've jut realised that I too have a vague idea they're 'modular' rather than 'folding' and don't they come with their own suitcases which can be used as a sort of very-small-wheeled trailer?


I seem to remember someone on a ride showing me one on a ride and that the "fast dismantle" gave you two bits. 
Some folders of course fold better than others. I have a dahon speed pro folding sports bike - it is somewhat ungainly when folded and all relies on something with a clever name that is essentially a scewed on magnet which is prone to falling off. 
If buying a folder I would strongly suggest hands-on testing the folding.


----------



## Cycleops (22 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> well spotted cycleops, but is the bike friday really a folder? I had the idea (maybe mistaken) that it was rather something you could dismantle to varying degrees.


Yes it’s a proper folder. Mine has a very odd cable arrangement but later ones are different with a better fold. You might be thinking of Moulton.

I can understand why you want a sealed hub gear @KnittyNorah ,mine has a Alfine 8 speed hub and its great. Also has disc brakes which is another plus. I have an idea BF offer a suitcase. Being 22 years old wouldn’t necessarily mean more maintenance, I have forty years bikes which need very little attention. There’s always the the local bike shop if you don’t want to do things yourself.
I see the bike has a Sachs 3 speed hub so you could remove the derailleur and just have that if you didn’t need the spread of gears. I know it’s a bit of a hassle but it’s a simple job and your LBS could do it for you. You would then have a mount specificity tailored to you and I think you’re really going to struggle finding something that suits off the shelf.


----------



## Blue Hills (22 May 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Yes it’s a proper folder. Mine has a very odd cable arrangement but later ones are different with a better fold.
> 
> I can understand why you want a sealed hub gear @KnittyNorah ,mine has a Alfine 8 speed hub and its great. Also has disc brakes which is another plus. I have an idea BF offer a suitcase. Being 22 years old wouldn’t necessarily mean more maintenance, I have forty years bikes which need very little attention. There’s always the the local bike shop if you don’t want to do things yourself.
> I see the bike has a Sachs 3 speed hub so you could remove the derailleur and just have that if you didn’t need the spread of gears. I know it’s a bit of a hassle but it’s a simple job and your LBS could do it for you. You would then have a mount specificity tailored to you and I think you’re really going to struggle finding something that suits off the shelf.


to clarify cycleops, which bike has the sachs hub? the ebay bike? Didn't sachs become sram and sram then move out of making geared hubs? My speed pro has an sram dual drive but it isn't made anymore. It's working fine but I doubt I could ever get anyone to do any work on it.


----------



## Cycleops (22 May 2021)

The eBay bike has the Sachs. Might even be possible to put a new rear wheel in with an Alfine, but more cost of course but still worth it if it gives you what you want.


----------



## BoldonLad (22 May 2021)

KnittyNorah said:


> Interesting about old Dahon designs being sold under different brand names. Definitely something to look out for!



We (myself and wife) have two unbranded Chinese Dahon type folders. Some friends have genuine Dahon folders (they are very happy with them, by the way). Our Chinese copies look very, very similar.

I paid £250 each for them, about 4 years ago. They have alloy frame, 6 speed gears, rack, mudguards etc, and weigh 10kg each. Although they do fold, IMHO, they are not all that portable, OK to put in boot of car, or, perhaps, carry onto train/metro, but, not really practical to carry for any significant distance.

We bought them, mainly, to use with our Campervan, which we have done, but, now we prefer to take full size hybrids.

We are 73/74 years old, so, not olympic athletes. We have ridden upto twenty miles on them, no problem, but, I use mine mainly to cycle to the pub, or, to travel to from home after taking car for service etc.


----------



## Blue Hills (22 May 2021)

Dig those graphics @BoldonLad 
Takes me right back to my childhood hotwheels.


----------



## BoldonLad (22 May 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Dig those graphics @BoldonLad
> Takes me right back to my childhood hotwheels.



Well, it is at least half true, ie, it is an urban shot. The "Lite" is a matter of opinion


----------



## Cycleops (22 May 2021)

10 kg is pretty creditable for a cheap folder but no folder is practical for carrying any distance.


----------



## 12boy (22 May 2021)

BikeFridays are excellent machines and being chromo are strong and durable. They did come out with a 16 inch wheel bike, the Pakit which separates quickly, but the old ones all fold. As far as being 20 years old, niot a big deal. Sachs 3 speeds have a good rep, and for a while Brompton used them, so an LBS that has sold Bromptons may well have someone who has worked on them before. Unlike most folders, BikeFridays were usually made to order so a BF made for a 5ft person would have everything in proportionate geometry. Personally, I would prefer a 20 year old quality machine than a low end Al bike.


----------



## Kell (24 May 2021)

12boy said:


> Personally, I would prefer a 20 year old quality machine than a low end Al bike.



This ^ 

A well set up quality bike - even if it's old - will always be a better buy than a cheap one. And by cheap I don't necessarily mean less expensive. 

GCN did a test a little while ago with a cheap road bike that was designed to look like a high-end bike. It was dreadful and at 15+ kg was very heavy. 

For the same price, you could get a Triban, which is much plainer, but actually built very well. 

I know it's off topic, but here's the link.

We Bought A “Superbike” From Amazon For £300: How Bad Is It? - YouTube


----------



## KnittyNorah (24 May 2021)

Kell said:


> This ^
> 
> A well set up quality bike - even if it's old - will always be a better buy than a cheap one. And by cheap I don't necessarily mean less expensive.
> 
> ...


Well, I've already pointed out the issue of weight on a bike someone pointed me at; I'm looking at new Dahons, Terns and the like - not the top range of them - but not exactly BSOs. 
I got rid of _all _my tools - I don't even have a multi-tool now! - when I sold my Islabike, as I thought I'd never be able to ride a bike again. I've started picking odd things up when I see them and keeping an eye open in Lidl and Aldi for their 'cycling events'; if I could still do a great deal of my own maintenance and fettling, I would jump at the 2nd hand Dahon but I simply _can't_ - due to absence of space, facilities and equipment and, to be honest, _I don't want to_.


----------



## Cycleops (24 May 2021)

So you’re going for a new Dahon or Tern. Will they be suitable bearing in mind your height issue?


----------



## KnittyNorah (24 May 2021)

Cycleops said:


> So you’re going for a new Dahon or Tern. Will they be suitable bearing in mind your height issue?



According to the bumph, height is fine as the ones I'm looking at are all stated as suitable for heights 140cm up - and I'm a bit taller than that. I've also had very thorough and comprehensive replies from a couple of companies wrt detailed measurements, and will be fitting crank shorteners too (until I decide which length cranks are best … and if I need an eccentric pedal on one side. Then I'll probably get the 'right' length cranks fitted at some point).
Now just to find one with a hub gear - 7 spd for preference - actually in stock! I've got my eye on one with a 3-speed, but I'd prefer a 7 speed. I suspect 3spd would be ample, now that I live in the flatlands, but until a few years ago I've always lived in hilly country so it seems - solely in my mind, probably! - a bit … inadequate … If it proves inadequate after a summer's riding then I could get it changed, I suppose, as a Christmas present to myself!


----------



## Kell (24 May 2021)

WRT gear range, if it's not ridiculously hilly and you're not a speed merchant, then 3 speeds is probably OK. 

I know you're not looking at Bromptons, but I hired one before buying mine, and that was a three speed. 

For me, it was too undergeared at the top end but that could be sorted out with a larger chainring. The problem with doing that is that I have one very steep hill that I also needed a lower gear than the lowest standard gear. So needed the 6 speed - even though I only actually use gears 1, 5 and 6 + (a bit of 4 for setting off from a standing start).

My previous bike was a 27-speed Dahon so I was concerned that 6 wouldn't be anywhere near enough. But it is.


----------

