# Bikes on trains?



## Randombiker9 (20 Feb 2018)

So i have some questions about taking a normal bike on a train as:

1. If you do this do you have to reserve a space?
2. Are there any restrictions
3. what happens if your bicycle gets stolen on the train?
4. any other info?
I'm wondering as i've applied for a job which i can only get to by a train and then 35 min cycle because 2 hours would be way to long for me to cycle from my area.


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## Supersuperleeds (20 Feb 2018)

It depends on which train operator you are going to be using.


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## NorthernDave (20 Feb 2018)

As @Supersuperleeds says, it depends which train operator run the service.

Up here in Gods Own County, *Northern* officially have a "two bikes per train" rule but with no pre-booking, it's technically first come first served.
I've never seen anyone turned away though, but it could happen. Regularly on my journey to work there will be 3 or 4 bikes on the train and no-one seems phased.

*Trans Pennine Express* have a two bikes pre-booked rule, but we got 4 on a train back from Scarborough after one of @nickyboy 's legendary rides with no trouble - just a polite request with sensible stowing and the guard was fine. Then another cyclist got on at the next stop making 5 bikes on the train. The only problem is that TPX will then reserve you a seat at the opposite end of the train meaning you can't see your bike...

*Virgin East Coast* and* Cross Country* are apparently a lot more pedantic about it, with compulsory booking. Virgin make you lock the bike in a compartment that only train crew have access to (so hope they remember at your stop!)

Edit to add: you need to keep an eye on your bike throughout - if it gets stolen the train company won't be interested. Check first as some have rules that forbid you locking the bike on the train.
If I take my bike on a train I normally either stay with it, unless I can get a seat where it's in direct line of sight and close enough to react if anything happens.


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## mjr (20 Feb 2018)

1. It varies by service. 
2. It varies by route. 
3. You report it to the British Transport Police, otherwise situation normal. 
4. http://www.atob.org.uk/rail-ferry-zone/


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## robjh (20 Feb 2018)

Go to the National Rail enquiries site.
Look up a train journey that you are interested in.

When it displays the timetable, click on details






The next page will have a cycle icon. Click on it, eg.




This will then give you the bike conditions for the train company operating that service.


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## Randombiker9 (20 Feb 2018)

Supersuperleeds said:


> It depends on which train operator you are going to be using.





NorthernDave said:


> As @Supersuperleeds says, it depends which train operator run the service.
> 
> Up here in Gods Own County, *Northern* officially have a "two bikes per train" rule but with no pre-booking, it's technically first come first served.
> I've never seen anyone turned away though, but it could happen. Regularly on my journey to work there will be 3 or 4 bikes on the train and no-one seems phased.
> ...





mjr said:


> 1. It varies by service.
> 2. It varies by route.
> 3. You report it to the British Transport Police, otherwise situation normal.
> 4. http://www.atob.org.uk/rail-ferry-zone/



Thanks guys i live in berkshire. So most of the trains are GWR (Great western railway) although seen a couple of cross country and that's all i've seen.


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## Randombiker9 (20 Feb 2018)

robjh said:


> Go to the National Rail enquiries site.
> Look up a train journey that you are interested in.
> 
> When it displays the timetable, click on details
> ...



Look up a train journey that you are interested in.

When it displays the timetable, click on details
View attachment 396732


The next page will have a cycle icon. Click on it, eg.
View attachment 396736

This will then give you the bike conditions for the train company operating that service.[/QUOTE]
Thanks that's helpful.


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## snorri (20 Feb 2018)

There may be secure overnight cycle parking at or near the rail terminal at the work end of your journey, this might cost a little but could save you worries re. getting a bike on the train.


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## NorthernDave (20 Feb 2018)

Randombiker9 said:


> Thanks guys i live in berkshire. So most of the trains are GWR (Great western railway) although seen a couple of cross country and that's all i've seen.



https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/journey-information/on-board/cycles


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## vickster (20 Feb 2018)

To avoid bike getting stolen, stay with the bike or lock it to a solid part of the train with a d lock, ensuring its not blocking anything

Everything else covered

Anywhere around London on a potential commuter route, you'll be unwelcome before 9.30 or after 4pm on a weekday

If travelling at weekends, check no works anywhere which might mean the train is replaced by a bus...in which case you'll be riding to your destination


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## ADarkDraconis (21 Feb 2018)

Randombiker9 said:


> Thanks guys i live in berkshire. So most of the trains are GWR (Great western railway) although seen a couple of cross country and that's all i've seen.


My daughter loves Thomas the Tank Engine and some of his friends came to Sodor from the GWR!  Sorry, train geek here. We don't have commuter trains where I live.


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## Dommo (1 Mar 2018)

vickster said:


> Anywhere around London on a potential commuter route, you'll be unwelcome before 9.30 or after 4pm on a weekday



This isn't *always* true. If you're going against the general flow or even with it, but on a less cramped train, you can be fine. I've been doing a trip on GWR commuter trains into and out of Paddington for the past year with various non-folding bikes and as long as I pick certain trains, I've been fine, even at rush hour times. For example, a train that stops more and is slightly slower will be shunned by the majority of people, leaving all of it's 8 shiny, new carriages free for my perusal. I find that once you've done the commute a few times, you know which trains to get, which route to take through the station to avoid the worst crowds and where to stand without getting in the way when waiting for a train. I've not had an angry word all year from another commuter!


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## ianrauk (1 Mar 2018)

Dommo said:


> This isn't *always* true. If you're going against the general flow or even with it, but on a less cramped train, you can be fine. I've been doing a trip on GWR commuter trains into and out of Paddington for the past year with various non-folding bikes and as long as I pick certain trains, I've been fine, even at rush hour times. For example, a train that stops more and is slightly slower will be shunned by the majority of people, leaving all of it's 8 shiny, new carriages free for my perusal. I find that once you've done the commute a few times, you know which trains to get, which route to take through the station to avoid the worst crowds and where to stand without getting in the way when waiting for a train. I've not had an angry word all year from another commuter!


I have found this to be the same with South Eastern. When I moved to the wilds of Kent I bought a Brompton to go with the train journey. I found that certain rush hour trains on my route are never hugely busy in both directions. Seeing as I dislike the Brompton I am now taking my normal bike on the trains Monday to Thursday and the Brompton on a Friday. I did ask the guard if it was ok with the big bike and he said officially no, but as long as it's not too busy or causing an obstruction then they don't mind. And that has proven to be the case so far.
However, there is a caveat to that. When the trains are borked for what ever reason and over crowding does occur then you have to either wait or cycle the journey and for me that would be 29 miles.


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## Randombiker9 (4 Jan 2019)

I’ve been looking on website is says the time bikes aren’t allowed are

Arriving from R at 7.45-9.45
(This doesn’t affect me) as I’m not arriving at that time I’m leaving at 9.12 not arriving

Leaving from R 16;30-19.00
(This doesn’t affect me) as I would be leaving from a different train station.

The thing is don’t get is I want to book my tickets in advance but once I click next is says reservations are not possible. Although it said between that line to book a reservation and if Said online, calling or at ticket office. So does this mean you have to reserve because it’s not very clear


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## ukoldschool (4 Jan 2019)

seems pretty clear to me, ie you officially cant take a full size bike in peak times (as is the case on most trains)...






Get a Brompton, then no issues


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> I’ve been looking on website is says the time bikes aren’t allowed are
> 
> Arriving from R at 7.45-9.45
> (This doesn’t affect me) as I’m not arriving at that time I’m leaving at 9.12 not arriving
> ...


Tell us which train and someone will know more but if that's GWR's site you're using, reservations not being possible usually means it's a local service with a commuter-style train, rather than an intercity with reservable seats.


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## Randombiker9 (4 Jan 2019)

mjr said:


> Tell us which train and someone will know more but if that's GWR's site you're using, reservations not being possible usually means it's a local service with a commuter-style train, rather than an intercity with reservable seats.


If it’s a local route l which it is? Does that mean you don’t have to book reservations? Or do you have to go the ticket office in advance 

Ps nothing against folding bikes but there pretty ugly to me so that’s why I’ve never bothered with them


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## Randombiker9 (4 Jan 2019)

ukoldschool said:


> seems pretty clear to me, ie you officially cant take a full size bike in peak times (as is the case on most trains)...
> 
> View attachment 445582
> 
> ...


I’m not leaving or arriving from or to London 

As I told you there were certain times you can’t which don’t apply to me and it says in local area it says full size 2 spaces available. So how do you kniw if those spaces are full or not? If you can’t make reservations


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> As I told you there were certain times you can’t which don’t apply to me and it says in local area it says full size 2 spaces available. So how do you kniw if those spaces are full or not? If you can’t make reservations


You look when the train arrives. Yes, this sucks and can leave you stranded. GWR are complete cockwombles who have been told many times that the combination of a low bikes-per-train limit and no reservations makes their local services especially unattractive but they don't seem to care and (like most operators) seems to expect commuters to keep a bike at each end or get a folding bike.


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## Phaeton (4 Jan 2019)

vickster said:


> Anywhere around London on a potential commuter route, you'll be unwelcome


I think that answer is more suitable


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

User13710 said:


> Don't lock your bike to any part of the train! If you lose your key or something, chaos will ensue and you could find yourself being at odds with the transport police for delaying a train. Someone I know locked his bike in the guard's van on a Virgin train, and then, by a series of unconnected mishaps, ended up having to get a different train to his destination - he got into a fair amount of trouble because they could not unload his bike.


Why didn't they just leave it on there until it got back to the depot with tools that would mince the lock? It's then the locker's problem to go fetch it from the depot.

I have locked my bike to the bike rack (or luggage rack if it's a folder) if it's going to be out of my sight (but I strongly prefer to keep it in sight, to the point of standing by it sometimes). Too many bikes have been nicked from trains, famously including the Cycling UK CEO's Brompton. I know that's not good and a breach of some train company terms, but my insurance requires it be locked so I don't see another reasonable option until the train operators accept responsibility for thefts from bike compartments.


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## steverob (4 Jan 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> I’m not leaving or arriving from or to London
> 
> As I told you there were certain times you can’t which don’t apply to me and it says in local area it says full size 2 spaces available. So how do you kniw if those spaces are full or not? If you can’t make reservations



While I can't say this is the same for GWR or not, for my local train service regardless of what station you got on at / are getting off at, whether you are allowed bikes on it or not applies to the times it reaches wherever the end of the line for that train is (whether that is London, Reading, or somewhere else).

Which can mean you get the slightly odd circumstances of the rules saying no full size bikes allowed between 1630 and 1900, but although your journey finishes at an intermediary station outside of these times (e.g. 1615), you can't take your bike on it, because the train carries on and reaches its final destination at 1645, which falls within the restricted times.


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## Randombiker9 (4 Jan 2019)

mjr said:


> You look when the train arrives. Yes, this sucks and can leave you stranded. GWR are complete cockwombles who have been told many times that the combination of a low bikes-per-train limit and no reservations makes their local services especially unattractive but they don't seem to care and (like most operators) seems to expect commuters to keep a bike at each end or get a folding bike.


Oi theire not cockwolbmes back when I was 16 I did my work experience in there station but this was before I cycled and I just never asked about bikes. 
So i just asked about bikes and trains on their Facebook page as you can message them and they replied very fast and it says as long as it’s outside of peak times you can take your bicycle even full size on trains as long as you have your tickets you can turn up and go as it’s free. (That’s what I got told)


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## Randombiker9 (4 Jan 2019)

steverob said:


> While I can't say this is the same for GWR or not, for my local train service regardless of what station you got on at / are getting off at, whether you are allowed bikes on it or not applies to the times it reaches wherever the end of the line for that train is (whether that is London, Reading, or somewhere else).
> 
> Which can mean you get the slightly odd circumstances of the rules saying no full size bikes allowed between 1630 and 1900, but although your journey finishes at an intermediary station outside of these times (e.g. 1615), you can't take your bike on it, because the train carries on and reaches its final destination at 1645, which falls within the restricted times.


I’m guess not as when I messaged them and they asked which journey. They said the first off peak train is 08:20 in the morning. 

They didn’t say anything for way back but as the long as your tickets are off peak you should be fine right?


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

User13710 said:


> People could start locking all their suitcases to the luggage racks as well, in case they get stolen. Then people could complain even more loudly about trains always being late. The fact is, the rules are that items must not be locked to the train - for very good reasons.


That's not in the current National Rail Conditions of Travel (aka "the rules"), is it?

Anyway, suitcases are usually cheaper and travel insurance doesn't usually require them to be locked to things, unlike bikes. Also, I'm quite clear that it should be the passenger's lookout to unlock in good time and deal with any consequences of not doing so, so it does not make the trains late.


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> Oi theire not cockwolbmes back when I was 16 I did my work experience in there station but this was before I cycled and I just never asked about bikes.
> So i just asked about bikes and trains on their Facebook page as you can message them and they replied very fast and it says as long as it’s outside of peak times you can take your bicycle even full size on trains as long as you have your tickets you can turn up and go as it’s free. (That’s what I got told)


Did you ask them how you can tell if there's space available and what happens if not?

And you might not have been a cockwomble nor might anyone you worked with but this is clearly an example of institutional cockwomblery at GWR about cycling.


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## BrumJim (4 Jan 2019)

Fortunately, soon all new trains will soon be required to have 8 bike spaces.
https://cyclingindustry.news/european-parliament-backs-eight-spaces-for-bikes-on-trains/
For countries in the EU, that is.


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## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> @mjr whether it's in the conditions of carriage or not that you may not lock a bike to a train, it's certainly advertised on more than one TOC website that I've seen. (eg here and here) I've also read somewhere (can't remember where) that train staff could raise a security alert if they found this (my unreliable memory of unreliable source, so treat with pinch of salt).


Thameslink and Southeastern are the same company and tell you not to leave the bike unattended anyway, which I've always been OK doing on the trains under those brands. Thameslink seem pretty good, with their new trains having seatbelt-like extending straps for holding bikes to the carriage wall, like on some Belgian trains. But they can put whatever shoot they want on their websites - the national conditions are the rules.

The staff could raise a security alert for anything so that's situation normal. So I'd recommend not taking a bike painted to look as if it's made from sticks of dynamite!


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## classic33 (4 Jan 2019)

mjr said:


> *Thameslink and Southeastern are the same company *and tell you not to leave the bike unattended anyway, which I've always been OK doing on the trains under those brands. Thameslink seem pretty good, with their new trains having seatbelt-like extending straps for holding bikes to the carriage wall, like on some Belgian trains. But they can put whatever shoot they want on their websites - the national conditions are the rules.
> 
> The staff could raise a security alert for anything so that's situation normal. So I'd recommend not taking a bike painted to look as if it's made from sticks of dynamite!


Companies owned and operated by the same company, Govia Thameslink Railway.


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## Randombiker9 (5 Jan 2019)

Yeah. Which js why someone people stand up with their bikes on Trains (although these are more likely bikes with no racks)


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## mjr (5 Jan 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Had a very quick search and found GWR, TfWales, CTC, Transpennine Express, Gatwick Express & lner websites all have the same restriction.


Gatwick is Govia again I think, but anyway, most of those allow you to stay with the bike except some GWR and most LNER, and like I said, their websites are advice not rules.



> Conditions of carriage 49d permits a TOC to refuse to carry a cycle if the unloading may cause delay, which would seem relevant. But all I could find was a 2012 copy. For all I know more recent editions may include an inalienable right to lock stuff to the train. But I doubt it.


No, it doesn't, but nor does it prohibit locking as long as you don't cause a delay unloading, which was the claim.


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## Randombiker9 (6 Jan 2019)

When I’ve got a train before people I’ve seen are standing up with the bikes which aren’t locked even in some cases where there are cycle carriages.


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## mudsticks (6 Jan 2019)

If you are going long distance and your bike is in the sort of guards van where they have to let you out from the platform - then _do_ intermittently check that staff are aware you need to be let out at your destination.

I had an 'hilarious' incident once where they neglected to let me and my bike out at Carlisle, because unbeknownst to me the train manager had changed half way up the line and the message wasn't passed on to the next shift ...

The next stop after Carlisle was Glasgow -

Oh how I chuckled !!

I've never worried too much about security of bike on train - nor had a problem - and i can see why they wouldn't want you locking it on - how often do bikes actually get nicked off trains??


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## mudsticks (6 Jan 2019)

You'd have had to wheelie it tho! 

.. There's barely room for a normal width person down their aisles.. Let alone a bike!!


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## Blue Hills (6 Jan 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> @mudsticks I ended up locked in the "guards van" on a Virgin service when it terminated at Euston once. I eventually got the bike out through the passenger area. Looking back I missed the chance to ride it down the aisle through the seating area, which would have been fun.


Yes I've been left abandoned at Euston with a bike. Am always really pedantic these days about letting the train manager/captain/chief wizard know that I'm onboard with a bike, even if I've been assured on boarding that word has been passed on.


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## Blue Hills (6 Jan 2019)

mudsticks said:


> I had an 'hilarious' incident once where they neglected to let me and my bike out at Carlisle, because unbeknownst to me the train manager had changed half way up the line and the message wasn't passed on to the next shift ...
> 
> The next stop after Carlisle was Glasgow -
> 
> Oh how I chuckled !!



You must tell us the rest of the tale - surely it impacted your travel/holiday plans somewhat? Did you have any accommodation booked near Carlisle? Any problems getting off at Glasgow with a ticket only as far as Carlisle?


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## mudsticks (6 Jan 2019)

i made a big ol fuss as soon as i realised what had happened - but they couldn't stop the train once it had restarted.

It was a slightly 'put on' fuss, as part of me thought it was like something out of a train - based sitcom - being transported out of the country against my will.

My plan had been to get off the train in the afternoon, and cycle three hours or so to where i was intending to camp near Penrith at the start of a Cumbrian / Yorkshire tour - this was October so i had fairly short time frame to do that before dark.

So anyway, I think they actually held the southbound train, for a few minutes at Glasgow - on account of the irate hostage /cyclist situation - then bundled me and my bike across the platform into that waiting train.

i was then 'First Classed' back down to Penrith foc - with free buns and all to soothe me - I got off at Penrith then only had half an hours cycle to arrive at my destination just before nightfall.

Saved me a few hours cycling in the end


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## mjr (6 Jan 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Are you suggesting that if something isn't expressly forbidden in the (relatively brief) document, it is necessarily a right?


No, just that if it's not against any of the many pages of rules, it's not against the rules, and that train company websites don't matter because ticket buyers agree to the rules not the website content they've probably never seen.

I agree that the simplest way is to keep it in sight unlocked but that doesn't make all other behaviour against the rules.


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## Randombiker9 (9 Feb 2019)

I’m still confused on this and this is also for my friends. The thing is I have quite a few friends in Wokingham and Bracknell. I live in Reading

The National rail enquiries say you can but the website confuses me.

Ps j was asking this as my friends want me to meet them at there’s and then go cycling. But as they live in Wokingham and Bracknell. 

So are there any restrictions? Because when I asked through Facebook page I was just told the first off peak train is at 08:20am. Nothing about afternoons. So are their any restrictions?

My friends are also wondering. So it’s nkt just me asking I’m also asking for my friends


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## mjr (9 Feb 2019)

Randombiker9 said:


> Ps j was asking this as my friends want me to meet them at there’s and then go cycling. But as they live in Wokingham and Bracknell.
> 
> So are there any restrictions? Because when I asked through Facebook page I was just told the first off peak train is at 08:20am. Nothing about afternoons. So are their any restrictions?
> 
> My friends are also wondering. So it’s nkt just me asking I’m also asking for my friends


So what are you asking? Bike restrictions Reading to/from Wokingham and Bracknell?

If so, that looks like SWR local services or GWR as an option to Wokingham. 

SWR policy is https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/travelling-with-a-bike and it looks like there may be a restriction on evening weekday peak trains but because it's based on time leaving Waterloo, it affects trains leaving Bracknell roughly an hour later 17:45-20:00. There's a morning weekday peak restriction which you seem to have noticed already.

GWR policy is https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/journey-information/on-board/cycles which helpfully has a tab for Wokingham-Reading. No morning restriction leaving Reading or evening restriction towards Reading as long as you only use GWR trains, which is useful.

Other than that, it looks like turn up and go! Not Belgian but not too bad.


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## Randombiker9 (9 Feb 2019)

mjr said:


> So what are you asking? Bike restrictions Reading to/from Wokingham and Bracknell?
> 
> If so, that looks like SWR local services or GWR as an option to Wokingham.
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## vickster (10 Feb 2019)

Try asking at the station? After all it’s the barrier staff who will allow or stop you passing through. Ask to speak to the station (duty) manager


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## icowden (14 Feb 2019)

Actually the barrier staff are usually completely ambivalent at Waterloo. It's the Guard who ultimately decides whether you can have your bike on the train.
If a passenger complains to the Guard about your bike, then you are more likely to be de-trained. Of course you can get de-trained anyway if the Conductor is in a bad mood.

I travel with a folding bike (see picture - it's a big one) and was once de-trained from a packed service (which I had got onto when it was not packed, so I was neatly tucked away in a corner) by an irate guard who was chucking all bikes of the train, folders and non-folders. After pointing out the sign to him that said folding bikes were permitted, he then decided to throw me back ON to the train which was now rammed, thus making me the least popular commuter ever, and placing me right in the way of the doors. That was a fun journey (not).


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## cisamcgu (14 Feb 2019)

Just travel on Merseyrail - as many bikes as you want, on any train, all for free. Admittedly, this may limit your options for towns outside of Merseyside, but on the plus side, you will not accidentally bump into @Markymark


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## Markymark (14 Feb 2019)

cisamcgu said:


> Just travel on Merseyrail - as many bikes as you want, on any train, all for free. Admittedly, this may limit your options for towns outside of Merseyside, but on the plus side, you will not accidentally bump into @Markymark


I’m sure there’s an insult in there but sadly I don’t understand the post. 

What is merseyrail, what’s a train, what is Merseyside and what’s a town?


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## mjr (14 Feb 2019)

cisamcgu said:


> Just travel on Merseyrail - as many bikes as you want, on any train, all for free.


Don't worry. They're fixing that with new trains which have only three plastic wheelbenders that you can see in the last 10 seconds of this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcDdV-p6Qpo


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## rugby bloke (4 Apr 2019)

A bit late on this one. I have just started commuting with my bike on East Midlands Trains down to St Pancras and the experience has been very positive. There are 2 storage spaces per train in the guards compartment, which can be reserved in advanced and you are able to take your bike on the peak time services. As there are usually 2 trains per service that makes a total of 4 spaces, which appears to be ample at present. I sit in the carriage next to the guards compartment so I can get to my bike on good time to faff around and get ready to get off the train. I have never really thought about locking my bike up. I'm the first stop on the return service so that's not a problem, there is 1 intermediate stop in the morning so I guess there is a risk.


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