# Don't seem to be getting fitter.



## Trevrev (9 May 2012)

As hard as i'm trying, my fitness doesn't seem to be improving.
I'm 45, cycle 14 miles day for work, run 5k twice during the week, 10k or more on a saturday, hectic hour of badminton on a sunday. But every time i run, and i've been running for a good couple of years, i still ache far too much as far as i'm concerned. Surely my body should be used to it by now. I'm average speed, 5k 23-24 minutes, 10k 45-46 minutes.
I really want to up my mileage. Any tips on where i could be going wrong.


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## amaferanga (9 May 2012)

If you're just doing the same thing week in week out you won't improve. Run further - gradually build the distance each week. If you get tired then have an easy week. Simple.


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## Trevrev (9 May 2012)

amaferanga said:


> If you're just doing the same thing week in week out you won't improve. Run further - gradually build the distance each week. If you get tired then have an easy week. Simple.


This last couple of Saturdays i've done 8 miles, last Friday i ran to and from work which is 14 miles round trip. So i have been mixing it up a bit.


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## Garz (9 May 2012)

amaferanga said:


> If you're just doing the same thing week in week out you won't improve.


 
+1 on this.

You have hit a plateau. Adjusting your regime to shock the body can help, although in most cases training less but putting in more intensity is a better compromise. If your trying to get fitter there's more than one way to skin a cat. However 'fitter' is so broad your not really capturing the purpose of a goal, try to be more specific.


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## mr Mag00 (9 May 2012)

rest helps improve fitness too


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## Trevrev (10 May 2012)

Garz said:


> +1 on this.
> 
> You have hit a plateau. Adjusting your regime to shock the body can help, although in most cases training less but putting in more intensity is a better compromise. If your trying to get fitter there's more than one way to skin a cat. However 'fitter' is so broad your not really capturing the purpose of a goal, try to be more specific.


 
Maybe i've worded it wrong, i'm not understanding why i hurt so much after excercise, my muscles take a couple of days to fully recover. Surely my body must be used to the regime by now.

I done 5k last night, and it was a proper struggle all the way.


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## Garz (10 May 2012)

Could be a sign of over-training, lack of recovery/nutrition.


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## Crackle (10 May 2012)

Trevrev said:


> Maybe i've worded it wrong, i'm not understanding why i hurt so much after excercise, my muscles take a couple of days to fully recover. Surely my body must be used to the regime by now.
> 
> I done 5k last night, and it was a proper struggle all the way.


 
This is running right. Maybe that kind of approach is wrong for you.What I'd suggest is you run less more for a few weeks until it's comfortable and then increase the distance. The back to back runs are important but I'd suggest every other day for a few weeks before you put them back in and to run 4 times a week instead of 3.

Some people can just run that kind of distance with minimum training, I'm not one of them and I need to build up and put in a good base to do runs like that and it sounds like that could be your problem. You can do it but there's not enough base build up to do it comfortably and your cycling and badminton fitness is covering for a lack of base running miles. Slow down too. At least for some runs or for a good part of them.


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## Arsen Gere (10 May 2012)

There is some good advice here, like over training and a bit of rest. I don't think your expectations are unreasonable in terms of the volume you are doing, but if the intensity is high for everything you are destined for failure.

Other things to consider are nutrition, are you eating enough to keep this going, does your weight vary ? Do you get enought salt in your diet ? All this low salt stuff is good for the general population but if you are sweating buckets you can get low just drinking water.

Tinker with one thing at time and see what works for you. Try something for a week or too, like easier sessions over the same distance with one or two fast 5k's a month not one twice a week.
HTH


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## Arsen Gere (10 May 2012)

Oh I forgot, how do you measure your fitness ?
Distance covered, resting heart rate, speed round a course ? You may be doing better than you think. It always feels hard, you just get faster.


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## Trevrev (10 May 2012)

All good advice guys, thanks. I've never really thought about nutrition, i just generally eat and not worry what.
My main concern is my running.
I always drink 500ml of well diluted squash on my runs, as i sweat buckets. I'm a very big sweater!
Always have a milk, banana and chocolate smoothie after all runs.
I measure my fitness on distance and time, although i've just started to wear my HR monitor again for a couple of runs. Resting HR about 39/40.
Never think i'm running too fast though!


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## Arsen Gere (10 May 2012)

So a 39/40 HR for a 45 year old sounds very good to me, given your max hr will come down and min hr go up as you age.
If running is your main concern, how do you measure performance in that. Do you do park runs or tt's for reference.
Try running at a fixed HR and see how long it takes to cover a set distance or how far you can run in a set time like a MAF test. ( Dr Phil Maffetone introduced the MAF test in his book ).


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## Glover Fan (10 May 2012)

Do you race or do you run with a running club?

If no to either, give it a shot. It will make you faster and you only have to be minutely competitive to do so. Also, up your cycling. I find it is great for muscle development which in turn makes me run quicker.

Just to put it out there, I don't run very often anymore but I can cycle 60-80 miles in one go no problem. I'm entered for the Bristol 10k and last Friday I ran 10k training in 45 minutes. I surprised myself to be honest and my hamstrings were sore for days, but cycling has made my legs so strong.

Coincidently my fastest 10k time before I ever cycled and concentrated on running only was just under 50 minutes.

I am 24 though, so my age obviously helps in some respects.

Jon.


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## Trevrev (10 May 2012)

Glover Fan said:


> Do you race or do you run with a running club?
> 
> If no to either, give it a shot. It will make you faster and you only have to be minutely competitive to do so. Also, up your cycling. I find it is great for muscle development which in turn makes me run quicker.
> 
> ...


 
No, i don't run with a club. I work out routes on walkjogrun, and pound the streets. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but thats what i use to measure distance. I used to drive my car around to work out routes and measure distance with the odometre.
I've hit a barrier with regards to my pace. My fastest 5k is 22.30 minutes,now i can only manage between 23-24 minutes.
My best 10k is 45minutes dead,now hovering between 45-46 minutes.
I'm slowly upping my distance at weekends. Up to 8 miles now, hoping to get to 10 miles soon.
Maybe timing myself and putting myself under pressure to get faster could be the reason for my muscle fatigue.
I find it hard just to plod. I want to run and not jog!!


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## Glover Fan (10 May 2012)

Get yourself to a local club. I guarantee you will get faster.


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## MrJamie (10 May 2012)

In my experience, i found that running my usual 6k route a few times a week reached a plateau fairly quickly. The biggest improvements i got were from varying it...

The first was a bit of hill training, i found a 1km loop up, around and down a hill and did 5 laps in each direction for an artificial hilly 10k, which i really noticed helped on normal runs afterwards especially tackling any hills. I dont think anything else i did ever made as much difference as this.

The second thing was tempo/interval training. eg. run 1km faster, 1km at long slow pace and repeat (maybe only 1mph different) or run 400m as fast a sustained pace as you can then jog 600m as slow as you need to to recover most of your breathing and then go again. On the tempo training rather than running at say 12kmh, run 1km at 13 and 1km at 11 and you build the muscles for the bigger stride or something. The intervals was more like running at 15kmh for 400m then jogging at any speed for 600m, its supposed to help your leg muscles from going lactic acidy iirc. You can download google earth and measure your routes with the ruler(path) tool and mark off each 1km point etc so you know where to change speed 

Theres probably an optimum way of doing it, but i went for interval/tempo 5-8k and a normal 5-8k on 2 weeknights and a longer more endurancy or hilly saturday run usually 10-15k. The main thing seems to be keeping it changing, even things like switching to running on grass rather than road, also running long runs 2 days back to back seems popular with the ultra marathoners to build endurance.

Something like http://www.bupa.co.uk/running/training/training-programmes/advanced-10km/ are good guides but switch some of the stuff out for your cycling rather than doing both and dont risk overtraining, youre already doing a lot  Bupa have loads of different programmes on there linked best from this page http://www.bupa.co.uk/running/training/training-programmes/

Hope theres something of use in that rambling  Gonna go out for a run myself now!


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## Fab Foodie (10 May 2012)

Glover Fan said:


> Get yourself to a local club. I guarantee you will get faster.


 This.


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## Trevrev (19 May 2012)

Had just over a week off from running, just doing my cycle commute. Got up at 6 this morning and run 8.5 miles. Felt good, nice and fresh. Hated not running for that long though, but it done me good.
I really need to look at how often i run, considering the Badminton, cycling, and my obsessive press-ups. I felt a bit burned out.


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## Trevrev (6 Jun 2012)

After thinking about it long and hard, i've decided to hang up my Brooks!
After 5years of running, my body isn't liking it any more. Gutted really, but due to various injuries recently i've just totally lost my motivation for pounding the streets.
I just need to find something to help me stay as fit as i am, without costing the earth.
Sad day!


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## Arsen Gere (6 Jun 2012)

It's not about giving up, it's about recharging your enthusiasm. I damaged my knee laying decking in the garden and I could not put weight on my leg for 12 weeks. The doctors was a waste of time - go home it will get better. It took about 6 years to get better. After 25 years of cycling this was a real downer for me.
I started swimming instead. I got better at swimming and moved up in class from crap to mediocre. I could only do front crawl because the stress on my knee doing anything else was too painful.
Eight years later I am doing triathlons after a slow build up running and cycling.

Recharge and come back stronger.
Good luck.


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## Berties (6 Jun 2012)

I think you have been hard on yourself your timed distances are really good,for more distance you need to have a look at a 1/2 marathon training plan like the bupa site like mr jamie has posted,I have a similar timing to you,but do not want to run faster but further,I have a certain running style and that won't change,the heat over the last few weeks never helped me ,keep at it and mix up your training,


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## Trevrev (7 Jun 2012)

Berties said:


> I think you have been hard on yourself your timed distances are really good,for more distance you need to have a look at a 1/2 marathon training plan like the bupa site like mr jamie has posted,I have a similar timing to you,but do not want to run faster but further,I have a certain running style and that won't change,the heat over the last few weeks never helped me ,keep at it and mix up your training,


 
To be honest, i'm on a bit of a downer about it really. I've had a bit of runners knee, which i've been able to run through, only a slight niggle for the first mile or so. But on my last run which was nearly two weeks ago, my knee started to swell after my run, and felt like it was full of fluid. I iced it for a few days and the swelling went away, but i've still got a niggling pain there.
Also from my last run i have a pain on the bottom of my right foot, which runs through the middle of the foot from the ball to the heal.
I'm going to give it a month, and see how the land lies.
I want to run to keep fit not to be in pain.
All of a sudden this last month or so, things have really started to hurt.


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## PpPete (7 Jun 2012)

A good long rest from running may be just the thing you need.
My better half still runs occasionally (only very occasionally this year as we have been "on a mission" as far as cycling is concerned)
despite that she took over a minute off her PB in a 9km fell race last weekend.... despite being 3 years older than when she last ran that course.


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## Berties (7 Jun 2012)

Trevrev said:


> To be honest, i'm on a bit of a downer about it really. I've had a bit of runners knee, which i've been able to run through, only a slight niggle for the first mile or so. But on my last run which was nearly two weeks ago, my knee started to swell after my run, and felt like it was full of fluid. I iced it for a few days and the swelling went away, but i've still got a niggling pain there.
> Also from my last run i have a pain on the bottom of my right foot, which runs through the middle of the foot from the ball to the heal.
> I'm going to give it a month, and see how the land lies.
> I want to run to keep fit not to be in pain.
> All of a sudden this last month or so, things have really started to hurt.


 
I felt like you do just before Easter,I had a mega pain in my knee started whilst going down hill,I braved it with a strap and got worse till i was dragging,so went to see the physio a bit of heat, pulsing ,ultra sound etc mate it was worth every penny,
I rested it for a week,i was lucky to be going on holiday so the rest was easy,the damage you can do by ignoring the injury is you may develop a secondary injury,i.e. opposite ankle or foot,so my advice is take a trip to a good physio


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## Jmetz (12 Jun 2012)

Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Bad form likely to be at fault. O suffered with this briefly when I was determined to get a on 10km. Turned out the more I tried and pushed myself the worse my technique got. The same is likely to be the cause of the knee perhaps. 

I think perhaps you are getting far too hung up on time and distance. 

Run without a clock for a few weeks and without a set distance. Run in local small loops so you can cut it short as you wish. 

The miles and speed will come on their own. 

I found this out first hand. 10km on got smashed. 

As a side note you said you take a drink. Doesn't seem necessary to me, particularly for 5k. The key 
s being well hydrated long before you run. 

Similarly if you are feeling the effects after perhaps an electrolyte drink a little before and after may aid with fatigue. I love my torque.



Trevrev said:


> To be honest, i'm on a bit of a downer about it really. I've had a bit of runners knee, which i've been able to run through, only a slight niggle for the first mile or so. But on my last run which was nearly two weeks ago, my knee started to swell after my run, and felt like it was full of fluid. I iced it for a few days and the swelling went away, but i've still got a niggling pain there.
> Also from my last run i have a pain on the bottom of my right foot, which runs through the middle of the foot from the ball to the heal.
> I'm going to give it a month, and see how the land lies.
> I want to run to keep fit not to be in pain.
> All of a sudden this last month or so, things have really started to hurt.


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## Trevrev (13 Jun 2012)

Jmetz said:


> Sounds like plantar fasciitis. Bad form likely to be at fault. O suffered with this briefly when I was determined to get a on 10km. Turned out the more I tried and pushed myself the worse my technique got. The same is likely to be the cause of the knee perhaps.
> 
> I think perhaps you are getting far too hung up on time and distance.
> 
> ...


 

Sounds like good advice to me. I think all you have said is true.
About a year ago a changed my running style from heal strike to midfoot. Worked hard at getting the technique right. Maybe by pushing myself i'm letting the form slip.
Still having a month off though, i need it!
I must get beating my times out of my head. I run for fitness, i'm not a racer! So why i have this urge to get faster times is weird.


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## Rhys Williams (13 Jun 2012)

Have you tried jumping in a cold bath straight after you run, I read about it years ago and it really made a difference to my fatigue levels following a hard session. Paula Radcliffe does it, pro rugby players do it, they use ice but I don't have time to fill the bath with ice every day! It reduces the swelling caused when your muscles fill with blood or something, can't really remember how it works, all I know is it works! 

If you jump in as soon as you finish you hardly notice the temperature, so best to run the bath before you go! Stay in for 5-10 min then remobilise before showering as usual.

Obviously this only really works if you run from home and finish back at home!


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## Trevrev (13 Jun 2012)

Rhys Williams said:


> Have you tried jumping in a cold bath straight after you run, I read about it years ago and it really made a difference to my fatigue levels following a hard session. Paula Radcliffe does it, pro rugby players do it, they use ice but I don't have time to fill the bath with ice every day! It reduces the swelling caused when your muscles fill with blood or something, can't really remember how it works, all I know is it works!
> 
> If you jump in as soon as you finish you hardly notice the temperature, so best to run the bath before you go! Stay in for 5-10 min then remobilise before showering as usual.
> 
> Obviously this only really works if you run from home and finish back at home!


 Yes, i done this on my last few runs. 20mins at a time! And i really hate cold water!


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## Willo (17 Jun 2012)

Berties said:


> I think you have been hard on yourself your timed distances are really good,for more distance you need to have a look at a 1/2 marathon training plan like the bupa site like mr jamie has posted,I have a similar timing to you,but do not want to run faster but further,I have a certain running style and that won't change,the heat over the last few weeks never helped me ,keep at it and mix up your training,


 
I'd echo this, your times are very respectable. I am 43 this week and used to do a fair amount of 5-10k runs in times similar to yours (and still try to run once a week to supplement my cycling). I'm no expert, but for me personally the running really took a toll on my legs and, after not taking note of repreated annoying aches and pains, eventually resulted in a serious achilles injury. That forced me to rest and then find other ways to exercise. Cycling came to the rescue there and, ironically, a couple of years after the injury with a training routine consisting of much less running than previously, I wiped a couple of minutes of my time for a local 10k race.

I found reducing the running and adding in some other exercise (in my case cycling with some spin bike stuff in the gym) has lessened the impact from running and varied the muscles that get exercised. Moreover, when I do run my legs feel much stronger for the recovery and, touch wood, no more serious injuries. Saying that, it doesn't get any easier, but I put that down to me fighting the tides of time :-)


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## jdtate101 (17 Jun 2012)

If you want to measure your general fitness, then something like a bleep test would fit that purpose well. It won't measure muscular strength, but as you're mainly concerned with running should be a close fit. See if you can find a local gym who could administer it for you, then repeat it every month.


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## The Jogger (17 Jun 2012)

Some one mentioned Maffetone earlier, a lot of your concern seems to be about the ache / pain. I often use to run the Maffetone Method and my injuries and aches were a lot less. I think your main problem is you run too fast, before you hang up your Brooks, get this and do it, if you really want to keep running, which I think you should.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Maffetone-Method-Low-Stress-Exceptional/dp/0071343318


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## Trevrev (18 Jun 2012)

The Jogger said:


> Some one mentioned Maffetone earlier, a lot of your concern seems to be about the ache / pain. I often use to run the Maffetone Method and my injuries and aches were a lot less. I think your main problem is you run too fast, before you hang up your Brooks, get this and do it, if you really want to keep running, which I think you should.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Maffetone-Method-Low-Stress-Exceptional/dp/0071343318


 
I'll have a look into this. Anything that is going to help my situation.
Thanks.


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## Trevrev (22 Jun 2012)

Ordered the Maffetone Method book, dusted off my HR monitor and replaced the batteries.
Been reading up on this method before i ordered the book, and it all makes perfect sense.
Running so slow will be an issue for me, but if it helps me overall then it's got to be worth it.
Just need it to arrive now!


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## kevin_cambs_uk (23 Jun 2012)

I did the winter months on a MTB, I really noticed the difference when back on the road bike,
before the MTB, I was generally, 
Head wind 15 mph
No wind 17 mph
Tail wind 20-21

Now
Head wind 17
No Wind 21-22
Tail wind, anything above 24

I hated the MTB but its done wonders for my fitness on the road bike


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## Trevrev (12 Jul 2012)

Trevrev said:


> Ordered the Maffetone Method book, dusted off my HR monitor and replaced the batteries.
> Been reading up on this method before i ordered the book, and it all makes perfect sense.
> Running so slow will be an issue for me, but if it helps me overall then it's got to be worth it.
> Just need it to arrive now!


 
After a two week wait my Maffetone book is here. Very interesting reading, can't wait to get started on it.
But until the bottom of my bloody foot gets better nothings going to happen soon.
I can hardly walk on it after excercise.


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