# Focus Bike Prices Set to Rise



## doyler78 (2 Apr 2008)

Just got the Wiggle Newsletter and it seems the price of their focus bikes are due to rise from 14 April so if you want that cheap Focus then you may get in quick 

http://wiggleeurope.com/interface/external_view_email.php?B82189369662565753524

Looks like the £999 will go up to £1199 which is a £200 increase - that's if they move to list price. Not clear from the email.


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## Mortiroloboy (2 Apr 2008)

Bad move IMO they are well priced bikes now , but surely in these cash strapped times (for some) most retailers are reducing prices to keep selling, not putting prices up, they look less attractive now against other (better respected) brands selling at the same price.


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## summerdays (2 Apr 2008)

Aren't the raw material prices going up ... I presume that is why ... I'm sure I saw/read something saying bikes would be going up this year by a reasonable amount.


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## doyler78 (2 Apr 2008)

It would say it is a combination of factors. Firstly the rising cost of raw materials across the world makes production costs highter and this is exacerbated in the UK as the value of the pound against the Euro is so poor that it makes imports very expensive creating a double whammy.

The big problem though now is that the price of the basic cayo will now above the £1000 mark meaning it will no longer be possible to get this through most cycle to work schemes which are limited to £1000 and with Planet X's offering remaining static, at least for now, it really is a gamble for them though maybe in the short term if this is the beginning of a more general trend.

I expect we will see other shops, online and LBS, raising their prices over the coming months as they simply will not be able to absorb the price increases. We may get used to rising prices. Inflation, here it comes. I need a raise!!!


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## Muddyfox (2 Apr 2008)

doyler78 said:


> Looks like the £999 will go up to £1199 which is a £200 increasel.



That pushes the VAT on that bike to over £200.00 

In a time that this government want people to start being more enviromentally friendly ... Go Figure ?


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## Dave5N (2 Apr 2008)

Not really Wiggle's fault.

It's the Euro rising as it becomes the currency of choice for international trade over the dollar.

Watch out for economic collapse when the rest of the world asks the US to give them back the two and a half trillion dollars it owes them.


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## Dave5N (2 Apr 2008)

Nice though to see the Swiss National team on Focus bikes last week. Who'd 'a thought they shop at Wiggle?

Canny bunch, them yodelling bankers.


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## HJ (4 Apr 2008)

summerdays said:


> Aren't the raw material prices going up ... I presume that is why ... I'm sure I saw/read something saying bikes would be going up this year by a reasonable amount.



Yep, blame it on the Olympics, Chinese steel plants are temporarily closing to reduce air pollution.


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## andy_wrx (6 Apr 2008)

Jakes Dad said:


> That pushes the VAT on that bike to over £200.00
> 
> In a time that this government want people to start being more enviromentally friendly ... Go Figure ?




I'd have said that most people buying Focus Cayos do so not for commuting or environmental reasons but to stick in their cars and drive halfway across the country to do a sportive.

So, yes it figures.


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## doyler78 (6 Apr 2008)

andy_wrx said:


> I'd have said that most people buying Focus Cayos do so not for commuting or environmental reasons but to stick in their cars and drive halfway across the country to do a sportive.
> 
> So, yes it figures.




Don't really follow that argument. Most of the time that a typical Focus Cayo owner will spend with their bike is actually pootling about their well trodden favourite local routes which involve no, or a short, car journey. How much time will the typical Cayo owner actually spend travelling to sportives? I know there will be some that live for the next event however do more people not just do a few every year?

For me the argument centres around whether cycling offers anything exceptional that would justify it being given a different status under tax law and I don't see anything particularly special. For health benefits you can run, walk, etc. For environmental benefits we can use public transport.

Having said that cycling is being put more and more on the agenda of government and as such it may actually be creating a case itself for VAT exemption.


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## vernon (6 Apr 2008)

doyler78 said:


> Don't really follow that argument. Most of the time that a typical Focus Cayo owner will spend with their bike is actually pootling about their well trodden favourite local routes which involve no, or a short, car journey. How much time will the typical Cayo owner actually spend travelling to sportives? I know there will be some that live for the next event however do more people not just do a few every year?
> 
> For me the argument centres around whether cycling offers anything exceptional that would justify it being given a different status under tax law and I don't see anything particularly special. For health benefits you can run, walk, etc. For environmental benefits we can use public transport.
> 
> Having said that cycling is being put more and more on the agenda of government and as such it may actually be creating a case itself for VAT exemption.



There's no scope for VAT exemption. I think that VAT exemptions were negotiated on entry to the EEC/EC with the proviso that no new exemptions would be sought. I don't thinks there's room to manoeuvre with VAT reductions either.


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## doyler78 (7 Apr 2008)

vernon said:


> There's no scope for VAT exemption. I think that VAT exemptions were negotiated on entry to the EEC/EC with the proviso that no new exemptions would be sought. I don't thinks there's room to manoeuvre with VAT reductions either.



Again this is not a position which I really think makes much sense. With agreement of other members VAT rules could be changed. Why would they want to do that?

Because all parts of Europe now find themselves with growing obesity problems, some further down the line than others with the UK leading the way.

Because all parts of Europe are as affected by climate change as much as any other and borders mean nothing then if you accept that it is good to encourage people to cycle more then reducing the cost of ownership can only be helpful. The benefits of greater participation would most likely far outweight the loss in VAT.

As I said in my previous answer I don't see anything particularly different about cycling which could justify such a change however it is the European governments themselves who have increasingly aimed policies at trying to get more people on bikes. Problem is some don't really understand what cyclists want and therefore divert money to the wrong projects and sending the wrong or mixed messages but nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that they have identified cycling, in all its forms, as something which should be encouraged. When you do that then you create an argument yourself for removing unnecessary costs which make ownership harder.


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## andy_wrx (7 Apr 2008)

I thought your argument was that VAT shouldn't be charged on cycles because people would use them to commute on, with environmental benefits over driving to work or using public transport.

A Focus Cayo might used for 'pootling' around local routes would have no environmental benefits because this is not something you do by bike rather than car.

If your argument is rather that VAT shouldn't be charged on cycles as sports equipment because of health/obesity issues, then equally it shouldn't be charged on other sports equipment like golf clubs, canoes, hang gliders, fishing rods, etc ?



I dunno. I'm in favour of VAT being charged on luxury items - which I regard a £1000 bicycle as.

Most people commuting short distances to work could do it on a £200 bike.
Similarly most people taking-up cycling for exercise could equally do it on a cheaper bike.

I can see an argument for not having VAT on cheaper bikes used for these puposes, but when you get to spending £1000 on a bike it becomes a luxury item, the sort of thing cycling enthusiasts lust after.

It's no longer a utilitarian device, no longer a machine for getting to work or working-off some flab, it's now a plaything for the sort of people who can afford £1000 bikes - and if they can afford that, they should be paying VAT...


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## doyler78 (7 Apr 2008)

Andy you are quite right. I did emphasise that point in both my responses.

I never said that there was any environmental benefit to pootling about on your bike. I was challenging the view that Focus Cayo owners main purpose in life was to ride halfway across the country to ride a sportive. I was pointing out that it would actually represent a very, very small percentage of the time that said average owner would spend with their bike.

As my view is that there is nothing especially special about cycling that means that we can take the environmental or health high ground at the expense of all other alternatives then your points with regard to why VAT exemption isn't appropriate is in line with my own view.

What I was saying is that it is governments themselves by the policies that they are pursuing which pushing cycling as an environmental and health benefiting activity and this is often done over other activities and by creating this allure of something special they are themselves creating an argument for exemption.

I also challenged the view that VAT exemption cannot be changed and that I stand by as the EU create and therefore can amend the rules. This idea of no, neah never is just an image governments like to portray of powerlessness when it suits them.

As to the part about exempting lower value bikes. Well I had actually written a bit into my second reply however I cut it as I thought I had wrote enough already. BTW I do 14 mile each way rides and I dispute that a £200 bike would do me fine. I have £700 bike and I am very happy with it. I don't know if I would have continued to try the commute if I had got a bike which was much heavier. Who knows. I do realise you said short journeys but not everyone has one of those so some of us will go for higher value bikes therefore where is a good level. For me a £1000 is a good level as this is the level at which the cycle to work scheme has be set and therefore it would seem that others have decided that this is the level which will meet most people's cycling needs and just because I'm a public sector worker and therefore cannot reclaim VAT through Cycle to Work therefore I don't get the benefit that the non public service workers do get. It would help even out that inequality.


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## HJ (7 Apr 2008)

The problem is there is no political will to change the VAT rules, cycling is not seen as a vote winning issue.


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## Eat MY Dust (8 Apr 2008)

Are Cayo owner any different from other bike brand cyclists? What's a "typical" Cayo owner?


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## ChrisKH (8 Apr 2008)

To be fair, there are very few goods now that are not VATable. Why should bikes in particular be exempted (or zero rated, the effect on the public is the same)? Any government regardless of political leaning is going to make the sale of bikes a taxable supply, not least because demand for them is rising.


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## Paul_Smith SRCC (13 Apr 2008)

Like many other retailers we have been receiving letters from most of our suppliers advising price increases that are about to take place.

Applies especially to items the suppliers pay for in Euros, that alone accounts for a large increase, if the manufacturer has also chosen this is the time to put up their prices as well, as many do, then it is even worse. Most manufacturers will have a worldwide price to their network of suppliers of course. The fact that their UK distributor is having is rough time interms of the exchange rate will not I fear make any difference, they are unlikely to reduce the price to them to compensate.

In conclusion expect prices to increase soon, in some cases by a large percentage; seldom good news for any of us really!

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk


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## alecstilleyedye (13 Apr 2008)

Eat MY Dust said:


> Are Cayo owner any different from other bike brand cyclists? What's a "typical" Cayo owner?



don't know, but the one bloke i know with one is a real mile muncher.


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## doyler78 (14 Apr 2008)

doyler78 said:


> Looks like the £999 will go up to £1199 which is a £200 increase - that's if they move to list price. Not clear from the email.



Looks like my initial scepticism has been bourne out.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360032366&n=Focus Cayo 2008

They haven't moved to the full list price but have halfed the increase ie £100 on the original price.

Wonder how many rushed to beat the very steep £200 price increase


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## simonali (14 Apr 2008)

What's the panic? It's still a bargain, I reckon!


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