# Can Somebody Please Explain Dynamo Lighting To Me?



## cosmicbike (31 Dec 2017)

As a year round rider, I'm starting to look at 'better' lighting options. So far these are battery driven which I use on my road bikes.
My commuter (Boarman CX Team, of 2015 vintage), currently uses 2 x SMART lights on the front, each powered by 2 x AA rechargeables, and 2 x Cateye LD-600's on the rear, each powered by 2 x AAA rechargeables. SO lots of batteries to keep charged.
I've been looking at putting dynamo lights on the Baordman, but to be honest not really sure where to start. Should I get a hub dynamo? Or will a bottle do the trick? Do they all operate at 6volts? Do I need a 'voltage stabiliser'? Can I make them stay on whilst stationary, and if so, how do I turn them off?

Would appreciate some real world information which would point me in the right direction.

Ta


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## Tail End Charlie (31 Dec 2017)

Hub dynamos are the best, they are available to suit any budget. Bottle ones tend to slip in the wet and obviously wear your tyre wall to a degree.
I'd just get a front light and continue using battery rears. You'd need one with a standlight, this stays for a few minutes on when you are stationary. You don't need a voltage stabilizer and they are all 6 volt afaik.
Once you've tried hub dynamos you won't go back to batteries.


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## Tail End Charlie (31 Dec 2017)

PS german websites such as rosebikes are cheaper for lights and dynamos, probably even if you get a built up wheel.


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## classic33 (31 Dec 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I don't know all the answers, but I have a few.
> Some lights contain a battery or perhaps a capacitor to provide stand light capability. They will have a switch to turn them off.
> 
> This also provides a boost to keep the light bright when going very slowly. But be warned that once you've exhausted this then the light can be very feeble and flickery when proceeding slowly (eg uphill).
> ...


Or colour code/number the sets.


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## Moodyman (31 Dec 2017)

How many bikes do you have?

Battery lights are easy to transfer from bike to bike. They also double up as torches when dealing with a mechanical in the dark.


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## Fab Foodie (31 Dec 2017)

I have Hub dynamo lighting on both Rourke and Brompton. These are the bikes I primarily ride in the dark. For regular night riding they’re the dogs danglies. No faff, great output. Just go and ride.
Hub dynamos ARE the way to go, the best Shimano DH-3N80 is cheap robust and reliable. Add a B+M front and rear from Rose and you’re good to go! Fitting and wiring is easy.
Add a back- up rear blinky and you’re covered. I also carry a headtorch for fixing stuff/back-up main light.


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## Milzy (31 Dec 2017)




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## Fab Foodie (31 Dec 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> You also need a fully capable backup for the front light too. DAMHIKT


For full night rides I do (a battery B+M) otherwise the headtorch works as a get you home in an emergency.


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## Tim Hall (31 Dec 2017)

Hub dynamo definitely. Even I, the late adopter of technology, use a hub dynamo. Coupled with an LED front light with standlight function it's a fit and forget answer.

I'm a generation or two behind with my choice of front light, so the current bunch are even brighter. You can get stuff like usb charging outlets too, to keep your phone or gps topped up. 

I run a battery powered rear light on my dynamo equipped bike. A 2AA cell light runs approximately for ever and you don't have the complications of more wires.


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## si_c (31 Dec 2017)

I've just got a hub dynamo system for the same reasons ie I can't be bothered keeping batteries charged.

Expect a complete system to set you back in the region of £200 including a new front wheel.


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## pawl (31 Dec 2017)

I think a voltage stabiliser was necessary to prevent buibs blowing tyre driven dynamos which back in the day they frequently did It was usually the rear that went usually when hurtling down hill Can’t comment on modern hub dynamos.
Not sure if bottle dynamos are still around.

I think it was Sanyou who made a dynamo that fitted under the B.B. and roller about tyre width that pressed on the tyre tread which was supposed to limit slippage,did hell and if you got the pressure adjustment wrong you were going nowhere fast
CTC forums may be a useful source of info for Shimano and Buch and Muller. Before It became Cycling U K it was a useful source of info


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## Vantage (31 Dec 2017)

I run B&M front and rear dynamo lights from a mid range Shimano dynamo hub.
I made the change 2-3 years ago and never looked back.
Most if not all modern setups are current regulated and blowing the bulbs from riding too fast is no longer an issue.
Most front lights have a capacitor that holds some charge that allows it and a rear to stay lit for a few minutes, long enough to wait for traffic lights to change.
I'm not sure about other manufacturers, but my rear light runs off the front light keeping wiring tidy and no additional grounding is needed as it's done at the hub terminal.
With a bottle unit, you get a cheaper generator at the cost of tyre sidewalls wearing (If not setup dead straight) and increased resistance. It can also be knocked out of adjustment and can slip when wet.
The much pricier hub unit (include the cost of rebuilding the wheel with new shorter spokes) has none of the above issues. There is some increased drag from the hub, but so little it's barely noticeable. About the same as letting 3-4 psi out from the tyre. Turning off the lights during daylight reduces this further but drag is so little that I never bother. Some could claim you're being antisocial by using DRLs though.



You do get the added benefit of having a proper focused beam and reliabiliy. Mile after mile after mile of not wondering when the battery will run out.
Then there's the security. Both my lights are literally bolted to the bike. Not some flimsy plastic strap.
And the possibiliy of future upgrades if you want. I added an ewerk a few months ago so have the abiliy to keep the cameras/mp3 player charged while out enjoying life.
It's brilliant.


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## Soltydog (31 Dec 2017)

I have a hub dynamo set up, now on my winter bike running a Supernova E3 front & rear light. It's worry free (so far) & bright enough for 20 mph on unlit country roads. I started off with a cheap hub dynamo wheel from Spa cycles, but a few years ago got a more expensive set of wheels & hub dynamo from Rose. It's certainly good enough for me & as I am unable to charge lights at work (unless I leave them unattended whilst working ) they are better IMO than rechargable lights. The only problem I have is that they are only on 1 bike, bit of a pain to swap wheel, lights & wiring over to another bike, so I also have a Hope vision one for using on other bikes & its as good to be fair, just have 2 sets of rechargable AAs so never stuck out in the dark.
Pros & cons to both, but reckon there is more pros to having a dynamo system


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## cosmicbike (31 Dec 2017)

Well that's a mixed bag, but has at least answered my questions. I just picked up a Hope Vision 1 as a 'see where I'm going' light for dark lanes, and at £40 is the most I've spent on a light. The idea of £100 upwards for a light, especially given I 'may' need to carry spare battery ones, or indeed still run battery rears, and it starts to look less attractive.
Food for thought though, so appreciate the input folks


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## Soltydog (31 Dec 2017)

cosmicbike said:


> . I just picked up a Hope Vision 1 as a 'see where I'm going' light for dark lanes, and at £40 is the most I've spent on a light.



Was that new or used? AT £40 I'd consider buying a spare one


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## Ian H (31 Dec 2017)

Voltage stabilisers were needed for filament bulbs. All decent lights are LED now. I have several SON hubs and Schmidt's own Edelux lights, which are very bright, with a shaped beam, and bomb-proof.


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## cosmicbike (31 Dec 2017)

Soltydog said:


> Was that new or used? AT £40 I'd consider buying a spare one


Used, but as new with all the little bits, including the clip on strap. One of my regular searches on Ebay..


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## Randomnerd (31 Dec 2017)

Do a lot of night miles and you want the best lights. I’ve got Son hub and Son Edelux lights. Very little maintenance ever required. Superb clear light. Will also power a Sven Cycles usb charger, which I can split to trickle charge gps and phone during day. Set up for tours and long audax. Big outlay but you get what you pay for. Winter road bike has Shimano dynohub which will run two small lights for road use.


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## mjr (1 Jan 2018)

cosmicbike said:


> Well that's a mixed bag, but has at least answered my questions. I just picked up a Hope Vision 1 as a 'see where I'm going' light for dark lanes, and at £40 is the most I've spent on a light. The idea of £100 upwards for a light, especially given I 'may' need to carry spare battery ones, or indeed still run battery rears, and it starts to look less attractive.
> Food for thought though, so appreciate the input folks


£100 for a light? None of my dynamo setups have cost that for dynamo, headlight and taillight. Typically £20 headlight, sub£10 tail and the rest on the dynamo and fixings.


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## mjr (1 Jan 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Mr Negative here again.
> 
> Maybe I just had a dud unit but I found this to be complete pants as the voltage was too unstable. I had to use it to top up a charge tank and use the tank for charging things. This kind of defeated the object of it all.
> 
> I'm going to take my wet blanket away and duck out of this thread now!


Not sure I understand the problem with having a cache battery inline... But from your earlier posts, it sounds like you had a dud.

(Edited to correct spelling. fark you autocorrect.)


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## CopperBrompton (1 Jan 2018)

A hub dynamo is one of the best investments you can make in your cycling. The fit-and-forget convenience of just getting on your bike and cycling without ever having to think about charging batteries is something that, once experienced, you'll never want to lose.

Get the SON if budget permits, Shimano if not.


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## Andy in Germany (1 Jan 2018)

Dynamo systems are mandatory in Germany so all our bikes have them. Most have hub systems and as with others I tend to forget it is there and leave the light on all the time. The 'parking lights' on my setup stay on for ages and give a good strong light too, so I don't carry a battery backup. 

I use these headlights, which I'm pretty happy with:

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-lumotec-lyt-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp/aid:553798

On bikes with a luggage rack I have these:

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-toplight-flat-plus-dynamo-back-light/aid:190441

on my Xtracycle I use this:

https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-seculite-plus-back-light/aid:50219

I once wanted to see how long it took for the light to go out completely, but I got bored after a while. The front dims slightly when the bike stops but the mudguard mounted rear light shows a bright red for ages.


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## si_c (1 Jan 2018)

Worth taking a look at the SP dynamo hubs too.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jan 2018)

Dynamo system consists of

Dynamo - Hub Dynamo is where it is at now. You need a wheel with the Dynamo built in as the hub.

Front light - You need a Dynamo specific light but generally you can use any front light with any hub Dynamo. You want LED which is the norm now. Most have a stand light capacitor which will keep it lit for about 5 mins when stationary at lights etc. Is wired directly to a connector on the hub Dynamo. Some have sensor mode which means lights come on when it gets dark or gloomy then back off when it gets lighter again. Some have a usb output for charging devices. Most mount on fork crown if you have mudguard eyelets. Have focused optics and output generally listed in Lux which is not the same as Lumens. Output of 70-100 lux is excellent for dark country lanes.

Rear light. Dynamo specific and optional. Most tail lights are wired to the front light. Mostly interchangeable (no need to match manufacturer for front and rear lights) but Supernova may need to be the exception here. Most have a stand light capacitor and will stay on for approx 5 mins when stationary. Both seat stay and rack mounted lights available.

USB. Some front lights have usb output for charging stuff on the go. Otherwise you can wire a uSB charger to the Dynamo in parallel. See stuff like the Igaro USB charger. A smartphone will charge from flat in about three hours of cycling in rolling terrain.


Most dynamo lights are bolted on, not a target of theft and just work. Mine are almost up to 8 years without needing to do anything since I fitted them.


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## smutchin (1 Jan 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Maybe I just had a dud unit but I found this to be complete pants as the voltage was too unstable. I had to use it to top up a charge tank and use the tank for charging things. This kind of defeated the object of it all.



The voltage is always going to be unstable unless you can maintain a consistent speed at all times! Unfortunately, this is always going to be a problem when using a hub dynamo to charge modern devices that require a constant power input.

The Igaro D1 comes with a stability bank accessory that claims to help with this problem by smoothing out the low frequency AC at low speed, though it still won't provide power when you're not moving. I don't have this accessory, I just use my Igaro to charge an Anker power pack and top up my phone and Garmin from that - this strategy works fine for me.

On long rides, using the Igaro to charge a power pack during the day also means I don't have to use it to power any devices at night, so all the power from the dynamo can be diverted into the lights, where it is most needed.

I have full dynamo lighting set-ups on two bikes - one has a SON hub dynamo paired with a B&M IQ Cyo-T (front) and B&M Secula (rear); the other has a Shimano hub dynamo paired with the Igaro plus a B&M IQ-X (front) and Secula (rear). Both work very well for me and I would recommend them. I used to have just front lights powered by the dynamo, with battery lights at the rear, but I got fed up of forgetting to fit the lights before setting off, or forgetting to charge them. And the Secula is a superb rear light.


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## A1kc (1 Jan 2018)

Very happy with Shimano hub dynamo. From Rose.
First ‘stand light’ had built in battery - which soon died. Replaced both lights with capacitor versions, which has performed very well.


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## freiston (1 Jan 2018)

I have had a hub dynamo set-up for a couple of years now and I love it. I went for a Shimano DH-3N72 hub on Exal ZX19 rims from a German company via Ebay - Taylor Wheels are charging £68 for this wheel today. I bought the lights from Rose - B + M Lumotec IQ Cyo Premium T senso plus front headlamp (currently £45) and a B + M Toplight View Brake Plus dynamo back light (currently £16).

The front light is nice and bright at 80 lux and imho, this set-up is a good quality set-up which is good compromise between cost and performance. You can pay a lot more and you can pay a lot less. Before P&P, wheels with the Shimano DH-C3000-3N can be had for about £40 and a less powerful/specced headlamp can be had for as little as £12 and rear lights for less than a tenner.


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## andrew_s (2 Jan 2018)

Dynamo categories:
a) Sidewall: B+M Dymotec 6 £32, Axa HR £16, cheap tat £5-£10
These are for those who are fed up with battery lights (for any of several good reasons), and want to convert an existing hack bike to dynamo lighting at minimum cost. The bike should use medium or heavy weight tyres (Marathon or similar). Fitting may required middling brutal clamps now that dynamo bosses on the frame are rare and decent after-market fittings (Dynoshoe, fits to V-brake boss) are no longer available.

b) Sports dynohubs: Shimano DH-3N72 or better (3W), SON, SP or branded versions thereof*. If buying from Germany, don't get a 1.5W hub by mistake.
Performance-wise, there isn't any real difference between any of these. Lab tests with suitably chosen scales may show differences, but there's nothing you would ever feel with your legs, or even by on-the-road timings. Choose on cost, weight, warranty period, maintainability, perceived quality/reliability, and available fittings/drillings. SON have a 5 year warranty, and service is in Germany at something like £55 after that. SP is 2 years, service via Zyro (importers) at £25. Shimano is also 2 years, service after that is DIY (which is possible, with care for the wires). With Shimano hubs, you can also replace the whole generator/bearings/axle hub core. It's no cheaper than a new hub, but saves a wheel rebuild.

*Alpkit, Exposure, Supernova (etc). Supernova has upgraded bearings & seals, others are standard SP hubs.

c) Cheap Shimano dynohubs, other brands such as Sturmey.
These will typically have more drag than the sports hubs (eg 3W lights off rather than 1W), but it's still not much compared to tyre drag etc, and you'd be doing well to feel it. It's the sort of thing that may play on the mind on a long ride though.

d) oddball stuff - eg spoke generators, that fit to the nearside of the rear hub, turned by a peg in the spokes. From what I recall, they are on the heavy side, and give a fairly low output at low speed. Not the sort of thing for a regular bike, but may be usefully better than a sidewall generator in some cases, such as on a cargo trike or something.
[addition] There's also the Velological dynamo, that runs off the side of the rim rather than the tyre. Small, light, relatively expensive (~€150, iirc), and zero drag when off. I'd still worry about slip in wet weather though.


I use SON hubs. They were the only option back in 1998, and I've had no reason to think about changing since.
Lighting problems since I started using dynohubs have been...
a) half a dozen or so blown bulbs
b) 4 failed battery rear lights, before I ran a cable to the back of the bike for a dynamo rear light, plus a couple of others that died after being left rattling about in the bottom of the saddlebag for too long.
c) A B+M 4D-lite plus rear light - standlight electronics; didn't come on until I'd been riding 30 secs or so (replaced by a Seculite)
d) A Solidlight that failed such that it went out as soon as I went over 12 mph, and wouldn't come back on until after I'd come to a complete stop. I was doing 44 mph when this started, on a very dark hill. Exciting! (sent back for repair - there was a general recall soon after)
e) A Seculite that got the lens & reflector knocked off, along with the light spreading widget (replaced)
f) Someone turned my lights off at the pub (presumably trying to be helpful and turn the standlight off), and I spent 3 or 4 minutes checking the dynamo connections before I remembered the switch (it lives in Senso mode, normally)
Everything else has been home workshop - upgrades, moving bits about etc


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## mjr (2 Jan 2018)

andrew_s said:


> Dynamo categories:
> a) Sidewall: B+M Dymotec 6 £32, Axa HR £16, cheap tat £5-£10
> These are for those who are fed up with battery lights (for any of several good reasons), and want to convert an existing hack bike to dynamo lighting at minimum cost. The bike should use medium or heavy weight tyres (Marathon or similar). Fitting may required middling brutal clamps now that dynamo bosses on the frame are rare and decent after-market fittings (Dynoshoe, fits to V-brake boss) are no longer available.


A couple of updates to that: the HS4xx Marathons no longer seem to have a dynamo track, but the Delta Cruisers still do. You can use tyres without sidewall tracks but the dynamo may slip more or wear its roller more quickly.

V brake fittings are still available for the Axa HR which may fit others. https://www.rosebikes.com/article/axa-soubitez-dynamo-holder/aid:50227 but I expect they're available more cheaply with a little searching.


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## andrew_s (2 Jan 2018)

mjr said:


> You can use tyres without sidewall tracks but the dynamo may slip more or wear its roller more quickly.


A proper dynamo track is best, but the main thing is that the roller has to run on non-knobbly rubber. If the roller runs on a visibly fabric sidewall, you're asking for a dead tyre. With (eg) a Panaracer Pasela, it is possible to use the edge of the tread, but running the dynamo wide enough and high enough doesn't make mounting it easy.
The ability to run a dynamo on light tyres was why roller (bottom bracket) dynamos used to exist. It's a very mucky location though, so they often didn't last longer than a year or two. You could also fit them on the underside of a front rack deck, which was better, but needed the rack.
(Velological rim dynamo added to previous post)


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## tyred (2 Jan 2018)

I don't rate the B&M Dymotec. It's overpriced, noisier than the HR traction and the spring which holds it against the tyre seemed to give up the ghost on mine. It's the only bottle dynamo that I've used that actually failed and I own ones from the thirties which still work fine.

I'd say the Axa HR traction is the pick of the bunch. I must try to work out how to fit my spare one to my Brompton.


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## JhnBssll (2 Jan 2018)

Not to confuse matters, but regarding voltage stabilisers etc its worth pointing out that most modern "dynamo's" aren't technically dynamo's at all... Sorry if this isn't new info but I haven't seen it been stated yet 

Dynamo's are mechanically commutated and produce DC current as you would get from a battery - the faster you spin them, the higher the voltage you'll see across the terminals. As a result, bulbs would pop if they were spun too quickly. External voltage stabilisers were added to limit the peaks and prevent this from happening.

Modern day "dynamo's" are actually magneto's, similar to the alternator in a car. They are not mechanically commutated and produce an AC current like you would get out of a plug socket (only much lower voltage). The AC current is then electronically converted to DC by means of a rectifier circuit. The electronics are housed within the "dynamo" casing and act to regulate the voltage as well so an external voltage stabiliser is often uneccessary.

The main advantage of the magneto over the dynamo is the lack of mechanical commutation. Since there are no carbon brushes to wear out keeping the bearings in order is the only maintenance required.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Jan 2018)

I fitted a Shimano Ultegra grade dynamo disk hub in 2008. It is fit and forget. I use a b&m front lamp and smart dynamo rear lamp under the rear rack.
The only disadvantage of Shimano is that servicing is very tricky, it is easy to sever the metal tape conductor and hard to fix. Few shops will attempt it. How many of you have ever serviced yours?


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## gazza_d (3 Jan 2018)

Hub dynamos are by far the best solution. Fit and forget, always available, and (for me at least) no discernible drag. You won't regret it
Both of my Moultons have hub dynos for a year round commute.

Unless you have a wheelset, then the cheapest solution is to buy a ready built wheel from Taylor wheels. You can get a wheel built with a dyno from about 40 quid. I use Herrmans H One S front lights which are 75lux with a rear attached and they are really bright. You're best looking at the german/EU sites as they tend to have a much better selection & cheaper than UK.

I wrote up about my systems a while ago http://cyclingsouthtyne.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/dynamo-lights-on-budget.html


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## confusedcyclist (3 Jan 2018)

Yes, another vote for hub dynamos. I specifically took up wheel building to build a hub dynamo for my commuter bike, I still ride with a backup battery powered LEDs in case of unexpected failure, but I don't sweat it if the battery dies. As others have said, hub dynamos are fit and forget and very rarely need fettling. In the last two years, I've only had trouble once when the cables become unclipped, I assume someone snagged them in the bike rack due to my loose routing (that'll teach me!). Oddly, hub dynamos don't seem that popular in the UK, I assume as cycling remains a 'leisure' activity for most, whereas on the continent where commuting is the norm, these systems are commonplace, their benefits are more obvious. I wouldn't want to ride on the TdF with a hub dynamo, but I wouldn't quibble about taking one out on a club run, especially if you have the option to reduce resistance to almost nothing by switching the lamp off. They are actually well suited to long distance rides, as there's no battery to worry about. They can also charge your gadgets...







As with all bike components, you can spend as little and as much as you like. Generally when deciding which hub to choose, you'll need to decide what to prioritise. You need to consider efficiency (i.e. less resistance when in power is drawn from the lamp, and more noticeably in better models, near zero resistance when your lamp is off), aesthetics of the hub/build quality or keeping costs down. Most modern hub dynamos don't have (user) serviceable bearings on both sides, so you'll want to opt for a more durable bearing construction (sealed) if you are concerned about that. However, cheaper hubs might have the edge here as you'll be less concerned about the cost of replacement when the time comes. Personally, I didn't want a hulking shimao hub on my pretty new surly, so opted for something a bit better looking, and more efficient to boot.

I have an SP PD-8 hub up front, an B&M IQ-X front lamp, and a B&M Secula LineTec Rear mounted to my seat post. I think these hubs are rated at about 40,000 miles, so at my mileage, it should last a decade. Truth be told, if I get 5-6 years out of the wheel, I'll be happy. I was going through a lot of USB charging lamps at £20-50 a pop. The front and rear lamps are excellent, among the best. You could pay a lot less for a perfectly functional lamp, but I do a lot of dark riding, so wanted the best I could afford at the time.


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## Ajax Bay (3 Jan 2018)

@gazza_d 's write up - thank you btw - included this link "This is a really comprehensive guide to dyno lights with shots of the lights in action"


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## andrew_s (3 Jan 2018)

JhnBssll said:


> The AC current is then electronically converted to DC by means of a rectifier circuit. The electronics are housed within the "dynamo" casing and act to regulate the voltage as well so an external voltage stabiliser is often uneccessary.


Not usually.
Bicycle dynamos put out AC, apart from one or two rare models.
Rectification wasn't needed for filament bulbs, and got included in LED dynamo lights to maintain compatibility.

Bottle dynamos often contain a voltage limiter (back to back zener diodes, usually) to avoid blowing filament bulbs at high speed, but many filament bulb lights also contained them. If neither the dynamo nor the light contained a voltage limiter, you needed to add one. 

Hub dynamos are generally designed such that they give about half an amp, and won't give very much more current at all, but will give considerably more than 6V if it's required to push the half amp through the attached load, and you're going fast enough. LED lights have a fair amount of electronics inside, both to convert the dynamo AC into 3.5V DC for the LED itself, and to provoke a hub dynamo into needing to give higher voltages, and hence more power, to reach its half amp.
The current limit is because as you go faster, the AC frequency increases, and there isn't time for the magnetic field to build up to fully saturate the iron dynamo core before the next reversal (or something like that anyway).


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## cosmicbike (4 Jan 2018)

Had a minor brainwave tonight when I remembered the ICE trike came with dynamo lighting when I bought it from the member formerly known as @trikeman on here, but I removed the front as I took the screen off, I'm very much a fine weather trike-ist. Been in the garage playing, and I think the front is a B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus, and the rear is a Toplight Line Plus. There is a B&M bottle dynamo fitted to the rear wheel. A little time putting some temporary wiring together and then the wheels were spun up. Hey presto, we have light #
Both the front and rear have the 'standlight' function, and the front is a Senso version so it knows when it's dark apparently. Quite impressed with the light output from the front, which as far as I can figure is either 40 or 60 lumens. 
Next step will be to remove from the trike, and bodge onto the commuter as a trial. If I like it then I'll look for a dynamo hub wheel.

Thanks for all the input folks


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## mjr (5 Jan 2018)

I suspect it'll be 40 or 60 lux, maybe ten times that in lumens.


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## smutchin (5 Jan 2018)

cosmicbike said:


> Quite impressed with the light output from the front, which as far as I can figure is either 40 or 60 lumens.



It'll be 40 or 60 lux, not lumens. 

Lumens are a measure of light output, lux is a measure of illumination and tells you how much of that light output falls on a fixed point - IIRC German regulations stipulate a point 10m directly in front. 

If you get one of those cheapo Chinese 2000 lumen lights off ebay and measure the beam with a light meter, you might find it actually gives less than 60 lux at that same point, but also scatters the same level of light indiscriminately in all directions, whereas B&M Lumotec lights have properly shaped beams so the light only goes where you want/need it. The IQ-X has a very noticeable cut-off at the top so you don't dazzle road users coming the other way, but is also wide enough to give excellent peripheral vision at the same time.


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## cosmicbike (5 Jan 2018)

mjr said:


> I suspect it'll be 40 or 60 lux, maybe ten times that in lumens.


Yep, lux it is


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## confusedcyclist (5 Jan 2018)

cosmicbike said:


> Had a minor brainwave tonight when I remembered the ICE trike came with dynamo lighting when I bought it from the member formerly known as @trikeman on here, but I removed the front as I took the screen off, I'm very much a fine weather trike-ist. Been in the garage playing, and I think the front is a B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus, and the rear is a Toplight Line Plus. There is a B&M bottle dynamo fitted to the rear wheel. A little time putting some temporary wiring together and then the wheels were spun up. Hey presto, we have light #
> Both the front and rear have the 'standlight' function, and the front is a Senso version so it knows when it's dark apparently. Quite impressed with the light output from the front, which as far as I can figure is either 40 or 60 lumens.
> Next step will be to remove from the trike, and bodge onto the commuter as a trial. If I like it then I'll look for a dynamo hub wheel.
> 
> Thanks for all the input folks


SJS cycles sell all the mounts and bits, good luck!


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## andrew_s (6 Jan 2018)

cosmicbike said:


> ...and the front is a Senso version so it knows when it's dark apparently.


As you've got a bottle dynamo, I'd recommend ignoring the senso setting. A bottle dynamo is noisy enough that you are only going to have it running when you want light, and the senso can't move the dynamo against the tyre or turn the light on when the dynamo isn't running.
Senso is meant for hub dynamos that are running all of the time. There is a suitable hub dynamo for an ICE trike, but it's expensive (£290 plus wheelbuilding)


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## cosmicbike (25 Jul 2018)

Bit of a thread resurrection. It's the middle of Summer, and who needs lights? Well I do , as I'm working nights at the moment and riding home in the dark. Afetr a flat battery moment I've had a fiddle. I ordered the bottle dynamo mount from SJS back in January, but have not gotten around to doing anything until today.
Bottle dynamo fitted, rear light fitted. I need to get the B&M IQ mount for the front light as it was on the front derailleur post on the trike.









All a bit heath Robinson, but it works. A tad noisy and I reckon I'll notice when it's on the wheel, but it's a tester. Rose bikes do a basic hub dynamo wheel for £60 plus a tenner to deliver, so if I like the idea I'll get one ready for Winter.


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## si_c (25 Jul 2018)

cosmicbike said:


> Bit of a thread resurrection. It's the middle of Summer, and who needs lights? Well I do , as I'm working nights at the moment and riding home in the dark. Afetr a flat battery moment I've had a fiddle. I ordered the bottle dynamo mount from SJS back in January, but have not gotten around to doing anything until today.
> Bottle dynamo fitted, rear light fitted. I need to get the B&M IQ mount for the front light as it was on the front derailleur post on the trike.
> View attachment 421026
> 
> ...


Definitely get the hub wheel. There is no downside - it's entirely silent and more efficient.


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## mjr (25 Jul 2018)

si_c said:


> Definitely get the hub wheel. There is no downside - it's entirely silent and more efficient.


There are downsides in that it's more expensive, another wheel and fiddlier to maintain than a plain hub, but the upsides outweigh that IMO.


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## si_c (25 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> There are downsides in that it's more expensive, another wheel and fiddlier to maintain than a plain hub, but the upsides outweigh that IMO.



It probably will be a bit of a nuisance where servicing is concerned, but I've put 10k km onto my SP dynamo hub with zero maintenance, which is what I'd expect from such a system. If it needs servicing much before 30k km then I'd be surprised, however I may send it back next summer to pre-empt any problems, service cost is quite low all things considered.


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## User66445 (25 Jul 2018)

Effectively dynamos make your bike go slower. Personally I find the USB lights, together with a suitable battery backup, are brighter and don't have the dynamo performance penalty. From an environmentalist standpoint, however, I think they're great.


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## Tim Hall (25 Jul 2018)

avole said:


> Effectively dynamos make your bike go slower. Personally I find the USB lights, together with a suitable battery backup, are brighter and don't have the dynamo performance penalty. From an environmentalist standpoint, however, I think they're great.


Immeasurably slower, i think you'll find.


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## Fab Foodie (25 Jul 2018)

avole said:


> Effectively dynamos make your bike go slower. Personally I find the USB lights, together with a suitable battery backup, are brighter and don't have the dynamo performance penalty. From an environmentalist standpoint, however, I think they're great.


Bollocks in the real world.


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## si_c (25 Jul 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> Immeasurably slower, i think you'll find.





Fab Foodie said:


> Bollocks in the real world.



I kept trying to see if I could feel the difference when pedalling by turning the light on and off again repeatedly, I couldn't tell at all. Didn't go slower and my legs didn't hurt any more.

You can tell when you spin the wheel free, but not otherwise.


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## freiston (25 Jul 2018)

I have a recollection of someone (via the interweb) calculating that the extra effort for a particular hub dynamo and light setup was equivalent to a 6 foot incline over a mile. Can't vouch for it or name a source but my experience certainly is that I can't tell whether the dynamo is on or off and I strongly suspect that tyre brand or pressure would make a much more significant difference. Nor did I notice any difference from the non-dynamo front wheel when I first installed the dynamo system.


si_c said:


> You can tell when you spin the wheel free, but not otherwise.


 There is a alternating resistance and assistance to the wheel spin due to the magnets which can be felt with the wheel spun freely off the ground at low rpm, and the wheel does come to rest sooner (on my bike at least - I never did check the bearings).


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## freiston (25 Jul 2018)

avole said:


> Personally I find the USB lights, together with a suitable battery backup, are brighter and don't have the dynamo performance penalty.


I had a Fenix 750 lumens bike light powered by two 18650 batteries that was supposed to have an optimised beam shape but in reality was a slightly modified torch beam. The light was bright but in the wrong places - tilted low enough not to dazzle oncoming road users and it was blindingly bright on the tarmac immediately in front of the bike (effectively making it impossible for me to see ahead). Tilted to see the road ahead and it also provided floodlight for head height many yards ahead, dazzling anyone coming my way. The 80 lux B+M light is more like a car headlamp on dip and is excellent for night riding on roads and lanes.


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## mjr (26 Jul 2018)

I just love bailing out USB light users after their light has gotten turned on in their bag or the battery has gotten old and lost capacity, by lending them my dynamo and solar charged battery packs(!) Really I do. It's nice to have your decision to go dynamo affirmed that way.


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## si_c (26 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> I just love bailing out USB light users after their light has gotten turned on in their bag or the battery has gotten old and lost capacity, by lending them my dynamo and solar charged battery packs(!) Really I do. It's nice to have your decision to go dynamo affirmed that way.



Never go back now. For commuting it's revelatory, get up, get dressed, get on the bike, let there be light, and there it is!


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## MichaelW2 (26 Jul 2018)

When it comes to everyday travel, if you are counting the seconds lost by dynamo drag, you also have to count the seconds lost by mounting and removing battery lights at every lockup and the faff of recharging. Dynamos make a bike grab and go whatever the conditions.
Back when I used battery lights on more than one occasion I ended up with panniers, lights and keys in hand and the thing I dropped was always the lights.


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## tallliman (29 Jul 2018)

Decided that I'm going to goto a dynamo setup for my front and rear lights. Going to get the lbs to make me up a wheel then going to add these lights:
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/b-m-lumotec-iq2-luxos-u-senso-plus-headlight-with-usb-connection-620047
http://en.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/toplight-line-plus.html

I do a fair bit of riding on my commute on unlit roads and so really want power in my front light. I'm just fed up of needing to charge usb lights every day.


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## Supersuperleeds (29 Jul 2018)

I'm still considering a front light dynamo, think I'll stick with normal rears though


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jul 2018)

In yesterday’s wind and rain, I was lit up with my Son kit for at least 100km of the 250ish km. Safety as well as being able to see where I was going.


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## Andy in Germany (29 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> In yesterday’s wind and rain, I was lit up with my Son kit for at least 100km of the 250ish km. Safety as well as being able to see where I was going.



That's the advantage of a hub Dynamo: I just leave my lights on all the time now.


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## freiston (29 Jul 2018)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm still considering a front light dynamo, think I'll stick with normal rears though


Why stick with "normal" instead of getting a dynamo rear?


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## tallliman (29 Jul 2018)

Supersuperleeds said:


> I'm still considering a front light dynamo, think I'll stick with normal rears though



My worry is always the rears failing. Quite like the front light I noted as the handlebar switch has a status signal for the rear light too. It'll give me peace of mind.


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## freiston (29 Jul 2018)

I've had battery rear lights fail (due to them shaking out of their bracket and onto the tarmac or shaking so that the battery contact is lost [*edit: not to mention batteries failing/depleting*]) but as yet my dynamo has remained in good order. There are plenty of people that let me know the standlight is working by reminding me that I haven't switched it off when I get off the bike .


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## Supersuperleeds (30 Jul 2018)

freiston said:


> Why stick with "normal" instead of getting a dynamo rear?



Rear light batteries seem to last forever plus I don't want to run a lead from the front to the back for a dynamo light


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## Supersuperleeds (30 Jul 2018)

tallliman said:


> My worry is always the rears failing. Quite like the front light I noted as the handlebar switch has a status signal for the rear light too. It'll give me peace of mind.



I normally have an additional light on the rucksack plus I have two rear lights on the commuter just in case one fails.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jul 2018)

Supersuperleeds said:


> Rear light batteries seem to last forever plus I don't want to run a lead from the front to the back for a dynamo light



There's something in that.

The cable for my carrier mounted rear light runs in an armoured channel under the rear mudguard.

Neither carrier nor mudguard can be removed without mega-fiddly disconnecting.


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## Andy in Germany (30 Jul 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> There's something in that.
> 
> The cable for my carrier mounted rear light runs in an armoured channel under the rear mudguard.
> 
> Neither carrier nor mudguard can be removed without mega-fiddly disconnecting.



I came across that on a bike but just ran a new wire along the mudguard stays.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jul 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> I came across that on a bike but just ran a new wire along the mudguard stays.



On my bike there's no mudguard stays, the mudguard is supported by frame bridges on the chain and seat stays, and it's bolted to the underside of the carrier.

Nicely integrated is good, but it can make repair or replacement much harder.


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## Ajax Bay (30 Jul 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Nicely integrated is good,


Include (secure) bayonet connector(s) where the wire crosses from the frame to the mudguard for easier/temporary mudguard/rear light removal.


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## si_c (30 Jul 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> There's something in that.
> The cable for my carrier mounted rear light runs in an armoured channel under the rear mudguard.
> Neither carrier nor mudguard can be removed without mega-fiddly disconnecting.



The primary reason I haven't fitted a dynamo rear light is the faff of trying to organise the cable run to the rear. It's an internally cabled frame, and I think there is enough space through the ports to run the brake cable and light cable, but the cables come pre-cut in such a way that the joint would be somewhere in the downtube. So to fix that I'd have to do a custom cable run, trying to avoid issues around rattling cables, I'm fundamentally lazy especially when two blinky USB rear lights take an hour to charge and last a week each.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jul 2018)

I run the cable for my rear light along the brake cables then up the rear mudguard stay. Almost invisible. 

My only concern would be in a crash due to the fragility of mudguards.


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## si_c (30 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I run the cable for my rear light along the brake cables then up the rear mudguard stay. Almost invisible.
> 
> My only concern would be in a crash due to the fragility of mudguards.



That's what I'm thinking I'd need to do, but the issue would come when changing the brake lines. Although if I upgrade to hydraulic discs then I suppose that wouldn't be so much of an issue


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## cosmicbike (1 Aug 2018)

After mounting the front light I tested the setup on the way home from work at silly o'clock this morning. The front light is very bright with a decent focussed beam, and the standlight works very well front and rear. Actually quite surprised about how bright the rear light is too.
Downside, don't like the noise of the bottle dynamo, and I'm sure it adds a fair whack to the amount of effort I have to put in (unless I had Friday legs..). WIll continue with it this week, but likely to order a dynamo hub wheel ready for Winter.


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## freiston (1 Aug 2018)

I run my rear light wire from the front lamp down the underside of the down tube, then along the nearside chainstay and up the mudguard stay from the dropout. The rear lamp is rack mounted and very close to the top of the mudguard stay.

Edit: Here's a couple of photos (imho, it's hardly noticeable) - there is a loop of excess at the rear lamp to facilitate any future fiddlings. I also have a small coil of wire (created by wrapping the wire around a pencil) at the head tube to allow unhindered turning/future fiddling.


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## minininjarob (3 Aug 2018)

I have an Exposure dynamo front hub with a B+M front light which has a handlebar control and USB charger - I can charge my phone during the day when the light isn't on. It's chuffing ace. I also have a B+M rear light which attaches to my rear rack which is also a brake light, it detects reduced current from the hub when you slow down to operate the brake light. It is weirdly good - it does only come on as a brake when you actually brake!
I have the cable wrapped around the rear disc brake hose then up the rack stay to the light. My brother took his a step further which his identical setup and used shrink wrap around the brake hoses which he threaded the cable through as well - very very neat and pretty much invisible wires.


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## Low Gear Guy (3 Aug 2018)

freiston said:


> Why stick with "normal" instead of getting a dynamo rear?


On my previous set up I fitted a higher power halogen bulb at the front. Probably not much point with LED lighting.


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## freiston (3 Aug 2018)

Low Gear Guy said:


> freiston said:
> 
> 
> > Why stick with "normal" instead of getting a dynamo rear?
> ...


My post was referring to rear battery lights as opposed to rear dynamo lights (the differentiation being between power sources rather than light sources).


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## andrew_s (4 Aug 2018)

Before LED front lights, it was common to use a 3W front bulb and a battery LED rear light rather than a 2.4W front bulb and a dynamo rear, to get extra seeing light.
Front LED lights can't be fiddled with, so there's no point doing the same from a lighting point of view, but some people don't like the front to rear dynamo wire, which is viewed as being untidy.


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