# How long does a journey have to be before you can call it 'touring'?



## nickAKA (3 Jun 2019)

I ask purely because I'm thinking of organising a saunter from Manchester to Amsterdam via the Hull-Rotterdam ferry with a some mates... once we're out of Greater Manchester it's a flat 160 miles split 60/40 by an overnight on the ferry, a night or two in the 'Dam & then back... it's not a problem distance-wise (for me) but it'll feel like a "boys own" adventure, especially for the newer riders.
I intend travelling pretty light, one change of clothes (civvies) in a single pannier or a backpack and will be advising everyone else do the same.
The plan is to make this the first of many if it goes to plan, increasing the distances until it's about the journey rather than the destination.
I'd like to refer to it as a 'tour' mainly to appeal to those who doubt their own capacity to do it but it'll probably be laughed off by the mile munchers!


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## Profpointy (3 Jun 2019)

My thoughts are a trip becomes a tour once you stop overnight in two or more different places.


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## alicat (3 Jun 2019)

Sounds plenty long enough for a tour to me.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Jun 2019)

I regard any ride with one or more meal stops as a tour.


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## snorri (3 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I'd like to refer to it as a 'tour' mainly to appeal to those who doubt their own capacity to do it but it'll probably be laughed off by the mile munchers!


There are day tours and err....longer tours.
Just ignore the sneerers who perhaps themselves have never toured internationally.


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## Sixmile (3 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I ask purely because I'm thinking of organising a saunter from Manchester to Amsterdam via the Hull-Rotterdam ferry with a some mates... once we're out of Greater Manchester it's a flat 160 miles split 60/40 by an overnight on the ferry, a night or two in the 'Dam & then back... it's not a problem distance-wise (for me) but it'll feel like a "boys own" adventure, especially for the newer riders.
> I intend travelling pretty light, one change of clothes (civvies) in a single pannier or a backpack and will be advising everyone else do the same.
> The plan is to make this the first of many if it goes to plan, increasing the distances until it's about the journey rather than the destination.
> I'd like to refer to it as a 'tour' mainly to appeal to those who doubt their own capacity to do it but it'll probably be laughed off by the mile munchers!



I'd be interested in hearing more about your route, especially the Manchester to Hull bit. This morning I was thinking about what I'd like to do for our next family tour and thought about Belfast to Dublin to Holyhead to Chester to Hull to Rotterdam then a week or so in Holland before flying home. The only bit i wouldn't be familiar with is the Chester to Hull section.


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## lane (3 Jun 2019)

I usually go away each year three days cycling and two overnights never occured to me that it's not a tour.


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Jun 2019)

I toured to Tesco this morning for a 1/2 litre of milk.


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## Milkfloat (3 Jun 2019)

I would argue that asking people do do 100 miles in a day with luggage, then a crappy night sleep on a ferry and another 60 the next day might be a bit much for a 'newer rider'. You want to make it fun, not a chore.


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## KneesUp (3 Jun 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I would argue that asking people do do 100 miles in a day with luggage, then a crappy night sleep on a ferry and another 60 the next day might be a bit much for a 'newer rider'. You want to make it fun, not a chore.


If I cycled 100 miles with luggage I can guarantee that I'd sleep so well that I would appear dead to the casual observer!


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## johnblack (3 Jun 2019)

If you've got panniers, it's a tour.


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## KneesUp (3 Jun 2019)

johnblack said:


> If you've got panniers, it's a tour.


Similar to @Yellow Saddle , I tour to work 5 times a week :-)


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## Ice2911 (3 Jun 2019)

Definitely a tour. I’d recommend that riders don’t carry things in a back pack for those distances. Lots of alternatives and can be relatively cheap- seat packs and frame packs if they don’t have racks and panniers. Holland is great for cycling I’m sure you will enjoy it there. If you can, a cabin on ferry will give you a better nights sleep than in the lounge areas ( I’ve tried it both ways and know which I prefer). Enjoy, have fun and remember to enjoy the ride.


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## Glow worm (3 Jun 2019)

I have a short tour coming up at the end of the month over a week or so- here to Newhaven, ferry to Dieppe then ride to Hook of Holland, then ferry, then Harwich back to here. I've been describing it as a mini-tour as it's only about 450 miles or so, and hotels not camping, which is nowt compared to some of the tours I've read by folks on here and in various books. I don't really feel anything like in that league (yet!) so mini- tour seems about right to me.


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## Racing roadkill (3 Jun 2019)

2 or more consecutive full days is a tour, in my book.


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## stoatsngroats (3 Jun 2019)

Definitely a tour...

_A journey for pleasure in which several different places are visited_

According to the Oxford Dictionary.


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## snorri (3 Jun 2019)

johnblack said:


> If you've got panniers, it's a tour.


Two or four?


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## oldwheels (3 Jun 2019)

You don’t need panniers. I used to go off for a couple of weeks at a time with a large saddlebag plus one water bottle and a tin for sweets in a bottle holder. My pal Jum did not even have a saddlebag but just a large bundle on the rear carrier of his ex police bike with double crossbar.


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## mcshroom (3 Jun 2019)

I'd usually say that staying somewhere else overnight is a tour.

If you think it's a tour then call it a tour. It's your ride


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## Spoked Wheels (3 Jun 2019)

Anything less than 90 nights it's not a tour in my book


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## bruce1530 (3 Jun 2019)

That’s not just a tour. It’s an International Tour.


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## Ian H (3 Jun 2019)

A tour needs to leave time for sight-seeing, slow food, and other non-cycling pleasures.


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jun 2019)

On my first ever bike tour, I cycled ... 15 miles 
Up a big hill in Arran, granted, but still only 15 miles.
As said up thread, 100 miles for a newbie could be a bit too much, no matter if the route is flat.
Maybe break it up over 3 days?


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Jun 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> On my first ever bike tour, I cycled ... 15 miles
> Up a big hill in Arran, granted, but still only 15 miles.
> As said up thread, 100 miles for a newbie could be a bit too much, no matter if the route is flat.
> Maybe break it up over 3 days?


If it is the hill I think it is, then your tour was _le Grand Tour_.


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## Pat "5mph" (3 Jun 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> If it is the hill I think it is, then your tour was _le Grand Tour_.


The hill is called Budge-something, looked like an Alp to me.
Leave the ferry, turn right.


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## Milzy (3 Jun 2019)

oldwheels said:


> You don’t need panniers. I used to go off for a couple of weeks at a time with a large saddlebag plus one water bottle and a tin for sweets in a bottle holder. My pal Jum did not even have a saddlebag but just a large bundle on the rear carrier of his ex police bike with double crossbar.


Your tent was in a saddle bag?


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## steveindenmark (3 Jun 2019)

Dont call it a tour. Call it a trip. Then it can be as long as you want


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## Yellow Saddle (3 Jun 2019)

Pat "5mph" said:


> The hill is called Budge-something, looked like an Alp to me.
> Leave the ferry, turn right.



That's the one. It has many names, most of them similar to golf ball names.


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## mcshroom (3 Jun 2019)

From my memory of climbing it, most of the names I called it would be substituted by the forum filter.


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## Rocky (3 Jun 2019)

A tour, for me, can be as long or as short as you want. It’s simply a matter of semantics. Just make sure you enjoy riding your bike.

Have fun.


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## Brains (3 Jun 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I would argue that asking people do do 100 miles in a day with luggage, then a crappy night sleep on a ferry and another 60 the next day might be a bit much for a 'newer rider'. You want to make it fun, not a chore.



I make it 120 miles on a bike between Manchester and Hull with two large bumpy bits in the middle.
I'd say that is way beyond the abilities of a casual rider, loaded with luggage, to do in a single day
That would be 14-16 hours of riding time, even a decent rider would not be under 12 hrs.

In reality the Manchester Hull section is three days riding, 30 miles first day, and under 50 miles for each of the other days, followed by a night on the ferry and then a 50 mile ride between Hook of Holland to Amsterdam as the 'big' day


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jun 2019)

johnblack said:


> If you've got panniers, it's a tour.



If you have a frame bag it's bike packing.


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## HobbesOnTour (4 Jun 2019)

To me, "Touring" is a state of mind rather than a distance or length of time.

But I don't think that helps you! 

I think you need to focus more on what people can realistically do (and be able to enjoy it!) more than the name of your adventure.

If you have 2 distinct ability levels, you could always plot 2 routes - one for the high mileage crowd, one for the less confident. Everybody meets up at the end of the day.

For Amsterdam, make sure your accommodation has secure storage for bikes. In the centre, a lot of the hotels are old and don't have the space.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jun 2019)

To me touring is riding a bike from place to place with one or more stops overnight and enough time to divert or stop to visit places along the way. The distance covered will vary by ability and bike load. As soon as it becomes a slog from place to place with no time for the stops or diversions, it's beginning to morph into something different.

So adjust the distances and terrain and stops to the ability of those you want to encourage. I did a tour last autumn with my wife, we covered between 20-40 miles per day. She loved it, not being a regular cyclist. It can be easy to get caught up in distance if you regularly knock out big miles. When touring it can be nice to dial it back and stop and smell the roses; with no time pressure.


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## Andy in Germany (4 Jun 2019)

If you think it's a tour, it's a tour. I call short trips to the next village with Beautiful Daughter a tour, because it sounds more exciting than 'Going to the shops'



steveindenmark said:


> Dont call it a tour. Call it a *trip*. Then it can be as long as you want



They're going to Amsterdam: people could get the wrong idea there...


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## johnblack (4 Jun 2019)

snorri said:


> Two or four?


...at least 4, plus a trailer.


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## johnblack (4 Jun 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> If you have a frame bag it's bike packing.


Not sure I'm hip enough for that, I'll leave it to the the youth.


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## Blue Hills (4 Jun 2019)

johnblack said:


> If you've got panniers, it's a tour.


to the market and back?

on the original question, anything involving an overnight stay not on a means of transport.


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## Blue Hills (4 Jun 2019)

stoatsngroats said:


> Definitely a tour...
> 
> _A journey for pleasure in which several different places are visited_
> 
> According to the Oxford Dictionary.



mm - maybe the Oxford should tighten up its definitions.

That would include a pub crawl would it not?

What's their definition of expedition?


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## Crackle (4 Jun 2019)

I'd say if it's one day it's a ride, overnight it's a tour but I'm not wedded to such definitions


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## Blue Hills (4 Jun 2019)

Brains said:


> I make it 120 miles on a bike between Manchester and Hull with two large bumpy bits in the middle.
> I'd say that is way beyond the abilities of a casual rider, loaded with luggage, to do in a single day
> That would be 14-16 hours of riding time, even a decent rider would not be under 12 hrs.
> 
> In reality the Manchester Hull section is three days riding, 30 miles first day, and under 50 miles for each of the other days, followed by a night on the ferry and then a 50 mile ride between Hook of Holland to Amsterdam as the 'big' day


i think you and milkfloat have save the OP from a mutiny/him being found floating face down in the Humber with a bicycle accessory shoved up him.


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## johnblack (4 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> to the market and back?
> 
> on the original question, anything involving an overnight stay not on a means of transport.


Yeah, panniers are a badge that shows you're not going to rush, will be stowing a few extra k's over the back wheel and are not looking for a KOM or kudos, that's touring, however far you go.


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## nickAKA (4 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> i think you and milkfloat have save the OP from a mutiny/him being found floating face down in the Humber with a bicycle accessory shoved up him.



LOL maybe, maybe not - the 'plan' is to get the greener tourists prepared first! The first distance challenge will be Manchester - Blackpool next month, most of the lads have done that before so it shouldn't be an issue. If I can then get them to do the Manchester 100 too, happy days, it all builds confidence in yourself.

As regards the Manchester-Hull leg we're on the right side of Manchester (open to debate ) and the only real climb of any note on the whole route is a local one; I'll work on getting them all over it at least once prior to the journey... if necessary I'll put all the luggage in the car and get SWMBO to meet us at the top so they can do it unladen 

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30176163

I haven't tweeked this route at all, it's as ridewithGPS spat it out so subject to change.

I'm considering AirBNB for accomodation over in Holland but haven't delved into it too deep yet. The public transport is good (plus bikes, obv) so slightly out of town should be fine.

Thanks for all your comments, very helpful.


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## Brains (4 Jun 2019)

That is still over 100 miles, in a day, for inexperienced cyclists, on loaded bikes.

From experience, the pace initially will be around 12mph, by lunch time you will be down to 10mph and by late afternoon, 8mph
100 miles is 10hrs peddling time, add stops and you are looking at 12hrs plus

I think the most I have ever got from a group ride with inexperienced cyclists on a tour is 60 miles in a day, anything much over 45 miles is a bonus 

I'd break Manchester --> Hull into two days.


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## Brains (4 Jun 2019)

You could use the Dunwich Dynamo as a test run.
It's free to enter and its on the 13th July
110 flat miles.
3,000+ cyclists take part each year

If you study the Strava heat maps over the years I think you will find the average time is around 12hrs (unloaded). 
That includes a lot of very fit and experienced people on kevlar bikes (and a few on penny farthings, Boris bikes and Bromptons)

https://www.strava.com/clubs/101041


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## Brains (4 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> if necessary I'll put all the luggage in the car and get SWMBO to meet us at the top so they can do it unladen



To be in with a chance I'd get SWMBO to meet you on the dockside at Hull !


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## Brains (4 Jun 2019)

Look at the Dunwich Dynamo times over a similar distance:

The start is around 20.00 (+/-1hr)
The FIRST block of busses leave at 9.30am - That is 13.5hrs later, that is for the Kevlar & Lycra crowd 
The big block of busses leave between 10.30 and 11.30 - That is around 15 hrs later, for the normal riders. 
The last buses leave at 13.30 - That is around 18hrs later for the Boris Bikes and Penny farthing crowd

It would imply they are expecting the door to door time including stops to be around 14-15 hrs (unloaded)
I wonder how many then sleep on a rocking boat and then cycle another 50 miles on a loaded bike the next day ?


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## oldwheels (4 Jun 2019)

Milzy we did not have a tent. Sometimes SYHA but often dossed where we could. We could have taught Ray Mears a few things as we were pretty adept at living off the land. It was a long time ago and conditions have changed I think so not so easy nowadays. My first tour was aged 3 on a trike when I set off to visit an aunt a few miles away. Did not get very far as police saw me and took me home in their car.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jun 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> What's their definition of expedition?



Going to IKEA


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## palinurus (4 Jun 2019)

If I take some stuff to the dump on the Elephant bike, stop at the cafe by the canal on the way back, then stop again to look at the fish in the pond in the High Street I call it a tour.


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## nickAKA (5 Jun 2019)

Brains said:


> Look at the Dunwich Dynamo times over a similar distance:
> 
> The start is around 20.00 (+/-1hr)
> The FIRST block of busses leave at 9.30am - That is 13.5hrs later, that is for the Kevlar & Lycra crowd
> ...



It's the definition of the 'loaded bike' that's throwing me here... I'm not against doing 50 miles a day on the outbound route if it's what the group wants to do tbh. Whatever it takes, but as I say the intention is to travel pretty light - a change of clothes, some fuel and a credit card. I've been rather selfishly looking back at my century rides last year and thinking 10 hours (including regular stops) would be enough time for a group assuming everyone has done enough training. The sailings are at 8.30pm, so setting off at 8am would give us plently of time, in theory... certainly my regular riding buch would manage it no problem.
I'll ruminate on it for a while.


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## Gravity Aided (5 Jun 2019)

Don't assume everyone has done enough training. Some show up for a tour never having ridden a loaded bike before. Fun to watch, but hard on the schedule.


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## Brains (5 Jun 2019)

The ship departs at 20.30h.
They will be closing the bow door for departure around 20.20

You have to clear customs and load before that, which in Harwich takes around 20-30 mins.
You really want to aim for arrival at the customs office no later than 19h00.
Ideally you want to get a meal etc in Hull, rather than a late (and expensive) meal on the ship
This means you arrival in Hull should be no later than 18.00
(The very nice, but not cheap, restaurants on the Stena ships open once they have cleared the harbour, so around 20.45)

At the 55 mile mark you have South Milford station.
If you have not passed that point by midday at the latest, then that is your escape route to Hull to arrive in time.
There is one train per hour at 18 mins past.
It takes about 1h30 to Hull by train.

If you want a test run, see if can you make the start to South Milford before mid day.
What time do you then arrive back at the start ?


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## Andy in Germany (5 Jun 2019)

Brains said:


> The ship departs at 20.30h.
> They will be closing the bow door for departure around 20.20
> 
> You have to clear customs and load before that, which in Harwich takes around 20-30 mins.
> ...



I'm _sure _that was a question in my GSCE Maths paper...


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## Edwardoka (5 Jun 2019)

As others have said: carrying a load drastically changes speed, mileage and endurance, even for people who are reasonably fit.
The most obvious example I have is when I took my laptop around Arran in my backpack (was on-call and had to do some sysadmin stuff on the ferry - don't judge me) and the weight of the laptop turned what would have been an enjoyable 4 hour ride into a painful 5+ hour slog where I still ended up cracking badly.


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## snorri (5 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> . if necessary I'll put all the luggage in the car and get SWMBO to meet us at the top so they can do it unladen


It would no longer be a tour, just an assisted ride, the sense of achievement would be lost.


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## nickAKA (5 Jun 2019)

snorri said:


> It would no longer be a tour, just an assisted ride, the sense of achievement would be lost.



I'd carry my own luggage up of course...


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## HelenD123 (5 Jun 2019)

Brains said:


> The ship departs at 20.30h.
> They will be closing the bow door for departure around 20.20
> 
> You have to clear customs and load before that, which in Harwich takes around 20-30 mins.
> ...


You wouldn't get a group on the train. Many are advance booking only too.


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## Venod (5 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30176163
> 
> I haven't tweeked this route at all, it's as ridewithGPS spat it out so subject to change.



I don't know the route on your side of the hill but on the Yorkshire side it can get confusing around the Mirfield Savile Town area, some of the route is on cycle tracks, be prepared for a bit of rough stuff on the TPT coming out of Selby and again Hemingborough to Barnby on the marsh aslo between Flaxfleet and Broomfleet.

I have ridden these section on 25mm tyres but only when its dry, I have ridden them a lot more on 32mm tyres, I like a bit rough stuff so it doesn't bother me but I know some people are dedicated road riders and may not appreciate it especially if its unexpected.

The A63 between Monk Fryston and selby can get busy with some HGV's but can be avoided by going through Hillam to the south of the road and carrying on by Selby Golf Club and crossing the A63 here towards Brayton and Selby.

An alternative route would be, Fairburn, Byram ,Birkin (good cafe here) West Haddlesey, Carlton, back road from Carlton to A645 (accessed through a gate) then Airmyn, Howden, this avoids the two rough bits on the TPT.

To avoid Flaxfleet, Broomfleet you could go through Gillberdyke and Newport.

I prefer the TPT route, but the alternatives are probably quicker.


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## randynewmanscat (5 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I ask purely because I'm thinking of organising a saunter from Manchester to Amsterdam via the Hull-Rotterdam ferry with a some mates... once we're out of Greater Manchester it's a flat 160 miles split 60/40 by an overnight on the ferry, a night or two in the 'Dam & then back... it's not a problem distance-wise (for me) but it'll feel like a "boys own" adventure, especially for the newer riders.
> I intend travelling pretty light, one change of clothes (civvies) in a single pannier or a backpack and will be advising everyone else do the same.
> The plan is to make this the first of many if it goes to plan, increasing the distances until it's about the journey rather than the destination.
> I'd like to refer to it as a 'tour' mainly to appeal to those who doubt their own capacity to do it but it'll probably be laughed off by the mile munchers!


That's a tour.


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## randynewmanscat (5 Jun 2019)

Ice2911 said:


> Definitely a tour. I’d recommend that riders don’t carry things in a back pack for those distances. Lots of alternatives and can be relatively cheap- seat packs and frame packs if they don’t have racks and panniers. Holland is great for cycling I’m sure you will enjoy it there. If you can, a cabin on ferry will give you a better nights sleep than in the lounge areas ( I’ve tried it both ways and know which I prefer). Enjoy, have fun and remember to enjoy the ride.


If its a put-put night crossing on the longer routes always a cabin. You can tell who has spent the night on the couches and who spent the night in a cosy bed.


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## randynewmanscat (5 Jun 2019)

snorri said:


> Two or four?


Two if you have a tent and a Canon F1 camera with 48, 28 and 135mm lenses plus Sony Walkman and 12 C90 cassettes, an Optimus 8R stove and trangia pan set plus a pair of Church brogues and 10 cartes IGN maps. I am not joking, I did it when I was younger and more foolish. I cheated a bit by piling the carrier up too. 
Bike 27lb, luggage 65lb, old times!


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## Gravity Aided (6 Jun 2019)

And most of that weight was the Canon-F1. You could drive nails with that thing, and take pictures of your work afterwards. A fine camera. Great for touring, although I think I carried mine only once. I usually carried Russian range-finder cameras and lenses.


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## Venod (6 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I haven't tweeked this route at all, it's as ridewithGPS spat it out so subject to change.



An alternative route to Howden saving a few mile, might be a bit more climbing though.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30195511


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## Pale Rider (6 Jun 2019)

Another vote for taking two days for Manchester to Hull.

Seems to me time taken on long rides varies, often for no apparent reason.

I've done York Humber Bridge York (similar distance) in 10ish hours, but equally some attempts at that ride have taken a lot longer.

Touring is a state of mind, riders may want to stop several times to take pics or have a swift look at attractions they pass.

To get across in 10 hours, I reckon you as leader would have to crack the whip.

Is this the type of ride on which you want to constantly badger people to get moving/get a move on?

Then there's the obvious 'barring mechanicals' or just as likely, minor routing fail.

It all adds up to two days - if you want a relaxed, touring experience.


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## nickAKA (6 Jun 2019)

Afnug said:


> An alternative route to Howden saving a few mile, might be a bit more climbing though.
> 
> https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30195511



Yeah I'd probably get lynched somewhere along Holmfirth Road but that's a more direct route for sure... I'd do it that way if it was just me I had to worry about defo.


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## Mike Ayling (14 Jun 2019)

Some time ago on an American site they used to refer to a sub 24 hour tour, i.e. as long as you stya/camp overnight it is a tour!

Mike


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## Profpointy (14 Jun 2019)

Mike Ayling said:


> Some time ago on an American site they used to refer to a sub 24 hour tour, i.e. as long as you stya/camp overnight it is a tour!
> 
> Mike



IF you're only staying in one place, then it's going somewhere and returning home afterwards, so doesn't logically sound like a tour. I'm only arguing semantics, as someone doing a 300km audax or whatever in a day, whilst not a "tour" is pretty impressive !


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## toffee (14 Jun 2019)

If I am off work and away from home having cycled there then it's a tour


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## RobinS (20 Jun 2019)

In my mind:
One day is a bike ride.
Multi day up to a week is a short tour.
Multi weeks is a tour.
Multi months is a long tour.
Am currently half way through month two of this year's trip.


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## CXRAndy (20 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> I ask purely because I'm thinking of organising a saunter from Manchester to Amsterdam via the Hull-Rotterdam ferry with a some mates... once we're out of Greater Manchester it's a flat 160 miles split 60/40 by an overnight on the ferry, a night or two in the 'Dam & then back... it's not a problem distance-wise (for me) but it'll feel like a "boys own" adventure, especially for the newer riders.
> I intend travelling pretty light, one change of clothes (civvies) in a single pannier or a backpack and will be advising everyone else do the same.
> The plan is to make this the first of many if it goes to plan, increasing the distances until it's about the journey rather than the destination.
> I'd like to refer to it as a 'tour' mainly to appeal to those who doubt their own capacity to do it but it'll probably be laughed off by the mile munchers!



You will kill the new riders with the distance from Manchester to Hull. They will be grumbling before half way and raging when 10hours in red raw arses. They will never ride again with you. Make it two days to Hull and maybe they will survive.


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## randynewmanscat (21 Jun 2019)

Gravity Aided said:


> And most of that weight was the Canon-F1. You could drive nails with that thing, and take pictures of your work afterwards. A fine camera. Great for touring, although I think I carried mine only once. I usually carried Russian range-finder cameras and lenses.


Ah the camera, it was stolen along with a bag strapped to the carrier while I was in a butchers shop in Nice. There was a horrendous queue and I was thinking I should try later but pressed on and waited. I looked at my bike chained to a lamp post the whole time but when I found myself inside the shop my view eventually became blocked. It must have been 5 minutes before I was served and I was quite anxious to get out. Relieved to see my bike then that sinking feeling when I realised something was wrong with the "picture". Stupid boy me! Would have taken 30 seconds to dismount the bag but it was 38 degrees and my head melted I think. The lenses I got to keep, they where in the alu case in one of the panniers.
Edited for correction: I got to keep two of the lenses, the 48mm was fitted to the camera. What really brassed me off was losing pictures of a very good party I attended on a ritzy yacht in Menton, girls posed with me for a giggle and they were way outside of my league.


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## Blue Hills (21 Jun 2019)

well you still have the memories.

Don't suppose they were behind the theft to destroy the evidence?


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## nickAKA (21 Jun 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> You will kill the new riders with the distance from Manchester to Hull. They will be grumbling before half way and raging when 10hours in red raw arses. They will never ride again with you. Make it two days to Hull and maybe they will survive.



They'll all have plenty of miles under their belts before we go, starting with 60 mile manchester to blackpool in a couple of weeks. I'll give them the option of splitting the UK side...


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## jay clock (1 May 2020)

@nickAKA did you go to NL? what happened ?


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## MichaelW2 (1 May 2020)

Gravity Aided said:


> And most of that weight was the Canon-F1. You could drive nails with that thing, and take pictures of your work afterwards. A fine camera. Great for touring, although I think I carried mine only once. I usually carried Russian range-finder cameras and lenses.


Canon made loads of excellent FD mount lenses. I didn't get on with the cameras but you can't argue with the pro grade L optics. You can now get adapters for digital cameras with short rear focus distance such as four thirds system ( Olympus/Panasonic).


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## Once a Wheeler (31 May 2020)

Tour of Lombardy: 1 day. Tour de France: 21 days. Tour de force: anything that gets you out of breath.


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## snorri (31 May 2020)

Once a Wheeler said:


> Tour of Lombardy: 1 day. Tour de France: 21 days.


I wouldn't describe these as tours, perhaps the word 'tour' has different meanings depending on which side of the Channel it is usedl?


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## dodgy (31 May 2020)

Interesting thread. For me, a tour is something that requires a bit of planning, logistics, food and overnight stays.
But there are no rules are there?
Looking forward to next year when I can do some actual touring, can't wait.


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## oldwheels (5 Jun 2020)

Milzy said:


> Your tent was in a saddle bag?


What tent? We just kipped out wherever we could. If you know how to look you can find shelter in many places including the odd cave. Mostly we found old buildings although in one case it was a new house being built in Aberfoyle. We arrived late and left early. On Skye we found a road menders caravan with a stove and coal so that was a warm night. The following day we went into Portree for food and found everything [on a Thursday] shut apart from a baker with only gingerbread for sale. It was a "Fast Day" apparently. This was in the early 1950's I think. We scrounged food and got free fish on Skye as well as potatoes. Sleeping gear was an old army blanket and cycle cape. The secret to keeping warm was a fire which was kept going all night. There was also a bag of oatmeal which made porridge for breakfast. Happy days with few cares.


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