# How do you treat your 'friends' that use their phones when driving?



## I like Skol (12 Nov 2020)

Tonight my wife has fallen out with me!

A friend of hers/ours phoned and I told my wife to say goodbye and hang up. The person that called often does so as she is driving home from work in central Manchester and fancies a chat. On several occasions I have strongly suggested that she refuses to talk to this person when driving. Even though she uses a handsfree set up, so claims the phone use is legal & safe, I know the person involved doesn't have great awareness when driving and using a phone, handsfree or otherwise, is a big distraction even for the best of drivers.
Tonight I talked loudly over their conversation and told the other person that she shouldn't be calling people to 'chat' when she is driving. My behaviour forced them to end the call and now I am on the receiving end of some serious 'cold shoulder'!
On several occasions in the past I have told my wife not to make casual use of the phone when driving as it is a safety issue and I have said the same thing to her friend a couple of times, so it's not like my behaviour is really unexpected.

In my experience and opinion any use of a phone, handsfree or otherwise, while driving is a distraction and unsafe. If you must make or receive a call then it should be brief enough only for the essential details to be communicated (I'm running late, I'm driving and will call you later, etc). I've seen far too many drivers slowing down inexplicably or weaving from side to side as they try to concentrate on a phone conversation rather than the activity of driving.

How should we be treating people we know that use a phone while driving? IMO it should become an activity that is as socially unacceptable and discouraged as drink driving. I'm sure that there have been studies that show handsfree phone use to be at least as dangerous as drink driving?


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## dan_bo (12 Nov 2020)

If a driver can't judge when it's ok to use a phone then they shouldn't be driving.


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## derrick (12 Nov 2020)

You got it right


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## dan_bo (12 Nov 2020)

dan_bo said:


> If a driver can't judge when it's ok to use a phone then they shouldn't be driving.


With all the obvious caveats.


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## I like Skol (12 Nov 2020)

dan_bo said:


> If a driver can't judge when it's ok to use a phone then they shouldn't be driving.


This is the problem. We think we are the safe ones, think it is ok, right upto the point where 'Oh sh1t' it isn't!


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## sheddy (12 Nov 2020)

Show them this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/driver-carelessness/

or this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/you-decide/

or this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/i-cant-take-my-eyes-off-you/


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## dan_bo (12 Nov 2020)

derrick said:


> You got it right


Who did


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## dan_bo (12 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> This is the problem. We think we are the safe ones, think it is ok, right upto the point where 'Oh sh1t' it isn't!


Yes you're right obviously but life isn't like that. Just because there's a risk involved in an activity- even to other people potentially- doesn't mean it shouldn't happen at any cost.


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## CanucksTraveller (12 Nov 2020)

In terms of reaction time It's the equivalent of drinking 2 to 3 pints of lager and then driving. You wouldn't encourage someone to have one more for the road and drive, so you're in the right to discourage it. 

It's a difficult conversation though, my wife is vehemently against texting and using phones when driving, but she sees the hands free differently, like it's the same as talking to someone else in the car. She sees motorway time as prime chatting with family time. It's hard to change their mind and at the same time not be the bad guy. I do sympathise.


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## Sea of vapours (12 Nov 2020)

I have little to add as your last paragraph summarises it nicely. Plenty of studies have shown that conversations on phones are equivalent to quite a high degree of alcohol intoxication (well over the UK limit). It has nothing to do with whether the phone is held or not and everything to do with the driver's focus being on the conversation. Also, it is not comparable to talking to a passenger as the passenger will understand if the driver breaks off mid-sentence to focus on a junction or other hazard, whereas the person on the other end of the phone can't see what's happening so the driver's focus is more on the phone conversation than it would be with their passenger. 

I used to be involved in conference calls where some people would phone in from cars. Truly appalling as people really don't want to sound distracted when they're on a work call. The solution to that is not to do it and when I had the authority to do so I'd kick people off calls if they were driving a car.


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## dan_bo (12 Nov 2020)

CanucksTraveller said:


> In terms of reaction time It's the equivalent of drinking 2 to 3 pints of lager and then driving. You wouldn't encourage someone to have one more for the road and drive, so you're in the right to discourage it.
> 
> It's a difficult conversation though, my wife is vehemently against texting and using phones when driving, but she sees the hands free differently, like it's the same as talking to someone else in the car. She sees motorway time as prime chatting with family time. It's hard to change their mind and at the same time not be the bad guy. I do sympathise.


Can be yes.


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## si_c (12 Nov 2020)

No complaints about that from me.

You could always try the reverse - give Mrs Skol the cold shoulder when she talks to her friend if she's driving


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## steveindenmark (13 Nov 2020)

dan_bo said:


> If a driver can't judge when it's ok to use a phone then they shouldn't be driving.


I must have missed that section of the law. The number of times drink drivers told me they werd ok to drive. It must be the same with phones. 

Its not multiple choice. It says you dont use the phone when driving. It negates those who cock up.


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## mustang1 (13 Nov 2020)

My SO has not had an accident so she thinks she's a safe driver. I find it better to _not _tell her anything otherwise she becomoes very erratic and a far worse driver. She goes through cross roads on the wrong side of the road and things like that.


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## mustang1 (13 Nov 2020)

sheddy said:


> Show them this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/driver-carelessness/
> 
> or this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/you-decide/
> 
> or this https://www.sharetheroadtozero.com/video-campaign/i-cant-take-my-eyes-off-you/


Effin heck, that put tears in my eyes.
I know people who will still watch that and deny they are drivinig dangerously. It p-sses me right off, their stinking attitude and stupid excuses. Their blxxdy selfishness putting other people's lives in jeopardy.


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## mustang1 (13 Nov 2020)

I tell people they should go on holiday with their families while the airline pilot is having a casual phone conversation with his wife during take off, or a surgeon is performing an operation while chatting on the phone. Let's see if the idiots like that.


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## SpokeyDokey (13 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Tonight my wife has fallen out with me!
> 
> A friend of hers/ours phoned and I told my wife to say goodbye and hang up. The person that called often does so as she is driving home from work in central Manchester and fancies a chat. On several occasions I have strongly suggested that she refuses to talk to this person when driving. Even though she uses a handsfree set up, so claims the phone use is legal & safe, I know the person involved doesn't have great awareness when driving and using a phone, handsfree or otherwise, is a big distraction even for the best of drivers.
> Tonight I talked loudly over their conversation and told the other person that she shouldn't be calling people to 'chat' when she is driving. My behaviour forced them to end the call and now I am on the receiving end of some serious 'cold shoulder'!
> ...



I'm not surprised you are getting the cold shoulder - how embarrassing for your wife for you to talk over her conversation.

The fact that you tell (as in 'told') your wife what to do doesn't help either.

Surely you *discuss* matters such as these in private?

NB: I don't disagree entirely about you no calls whilst driving sentiment although a hands free call seems no more dangerous to me than talking to another occupant of the car tbh.


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## byegad (13 Nov 2020)

I have no difficulty in seeing the obvious dangers of using a hand held phone. Come to that, smoking a cigarette looks to be at least as dangerous.
I'm not so certain about handsfree. My last 4 or 5 cars have had a Bluetooth connection and a button, on the steering wheel. 
While I've rarely used it other than to take an occasional incoming call, it seems to me the same or less dangerous than talking to another person in the car. Especially if, like the guy I followed once from Whitby to Guisborough, where the driver was constantly turning his head to speak to someone in the rear seat!
If using a hands free is banned I'll certainly obey the law, but I'd be interested to see the stat's one this.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Nov 2020)

If someone calls me when they're driving, hands-free or not, I cut the call short and ask them to call back when they've parked up or finished their journey. I don't want to hear them having a collision.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Nov 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> a hands free call seems no more dangerous to me than talking to another occupant of the car tbh.




https://www.open.edu/openlearn/scie...ngerous-so-why-do-car-firms-still-promote-it#

"Decades of research has demonstrated drivers on the phone are four times more likely to be involved in an accident than undistracted drivers, regardless of whether they’re using a hand-held or hands-free system. This increased risk lasts for around five minutes after the call has ended, suggesting that interacting with the technology isn’t the only issue. It seems that phone conversations take the driver’s focus away from their primary task of driving, even after they’ve hung up. People are largely unaware that their minds wander like this, or that it can affect their driving."


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## byegad (13 Nov 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> https://www.open.edu/openlearn/scie...ngerous-so-why-do-car-firms-still-promote-it#
> 
> "Decades of research has demonstrated drivers on the phone are four times more likely to be involved in an accident than undistracted drivers, regardless of whether they’re using a hand-held or hands-free system. This increased risk lasts for around five minutes after the call has ended, suggesting that interacting with the technology isn’t the only issue. It seems that phone conversations take the driver’s focus away from their primary task of driving, even after they’ve hung up. People are largely unaware that their minds wander like this, or that it can affect their driving."


That's interesting, thank you. I wonder if there's similar research on talking to passengers?


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## annedonnelly (13 Nov 2020)

I like Skol said:


> IMO it should become an activity that is as socially unacceptable and discouraged as drink driving.


Definitely! A shift in general attitude is needed, we can't expect the police to be everywhere to enforce the rules. It's not so long ago that everyone left their dog's mess behind. Now it's socially unacceptable and the vast majority of people pick up after their dog.

I wouldn't travel with anyone who used their phone while driving - and I've reported bus drivers for doing it while I was on board.


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## fossyant (13 Nov 2020)

Oh heck. I agree with you and we discussed this the other night. 

I usually check if someone is driving and will say, I'll call you back. Even if I catch MrsF whilst she is driving, I'll keep it really short. The only time I've used mine when driving is to let MrsF know when I'm picking her up - but I use Google hands free function to send her a text. Eg. 'Hello Google, text MrsF to say I'm on my way'.

You'll be in the bad books for a while, but you have told her previously.


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## sheddy (13 Nov 2020)

A passenger should be able to sense an approaching hazard/driver workload/decision making and wait before annoying their driver.


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## T4tomo (13 Nov 2020)

right message delivered in an appalling clumsy way. I bet you're a joy to live with.


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## Drago (13 Nov 2020)

Anyone who thinks it's ok to break laws that are there for our safety is no friend of mine. Fortunately, Mrs D is an ex Bobby herself so agrees with me completely on that without me having to tell her.


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## dan_bo (13 Nov 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> I must have missed that section of the law. The number of times drink drivers told me they werd ok to drive. It must be the same with phones.
> 
> Its not multiple choice. It says you dont use the phone when driving. It negates those who cock up.


Well hows about mandatory signal jammers in cars then. If the government was arsed about it they'd sort it in a shot. It's not a black and white issue.


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## sheddy (13 Nov 2020)

mustang1 said:


> Effin heck, that put tears in my eyes.
> I know people who will still watch that and deny they are drivinig dangerously. It p-sses me right off, their stinking attitude and stupid excuses. Their blxxdy selfishness putting other people's lives in jeopardy.



I’d like to know if/when these videos are transmitted on Ireland TV.


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## shep (13 Nov 2020)

A few issues here as I see it,

Should people drive around using their phone, NO obviously for all the reasons stated.

If in a car with someone who goes to use their phone whilst driving, fully justified to express your thoughts and point out the dangers etc,etc.

Should you talk over your missus when at home on the phone and embarrass her when really it's F**k all to do with you, errrr no, in my opinion.

If I was on the phone at home to a mate and the wife asked 'who it was and are they driving' then proceeded to do what you did she would get a right bollocking, as I would expect to receive if I did that to her.

You did ask!


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## I like Skol (13 Nov 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> I'm not surprised you are getting the cold shoulder - how embarrassing for your wife for you to talk over her conversation.
> The fact that you tell (as in 'told') your wife what to do doesn't help either.
> Surely you *discuss* matters such as these in private?


You're quite right, it has been openly discussed, I have suggested/requested that they don't make these calls (both with my wife and her friend) a number of times. I am not a monster so don't try to portray me as a domineering bully husband thank you very much.


fossyant said:


> Oh heck. I agree with you and we discussed this the other night.
> ........
> You'll be in the bad books for a while, but you have told her previously.





T4tomo said:


> right message delivered in an appalling clumsy way. I bet you're a joy to live with.


See above.


shep said:


> Should you talk over your missus when at home on the phone and embarrass her when really it's F**k all to do with you, errrr no, in my opinion.


Errrr, yes it is all to do with me, and her, and everyone actually. My wife has had to deal with that call once already, the one where your husband has been scraped up off the road and is now strapped to a spine board in intensive care, so please hurry on down and we will try to find out if he is paralysed before you arrive.
The cost of unnecessarily inattentive and distracted driving can be very high indeed.

I had tried discussion, suggestion and reminding, but that wasn't working so I used the big stick because the carrot approach had failed. It was rude, but if that's what it takes then so be it. It is important and 'nice' won't do it, so if it means making people feel awkward, embarrassing people, being 'rude', then let's get on with it and make things better.


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## Drago (13 Nov 2020)

byegad said:


> That's interesting, thank you. I wonder if there's similar research on talking to passengers?


Yes, there has been, and the difference itmcauses to raction times doesn't come close to speaking on handsfee, which is on a par with drink driving in terms of reaction times. 

If you're driving a car, leave the blummen phone alone. That so many the pilots of large kinetic weapons have such poor psychological control is scary.


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## dodgy (13 Nov 2020)

byegad said:


> That's interesting, thank you. I wonder if there's similar research on talking to passengers?



I guess we've all been in a discussion with a passenger in a car before, notice how they generally are aware when the road ahead gets a bit more complex (junctions, a car looks like it's going to pull out etc) and shut up? People on the other end of the phone don't see this so just keep talking.
You don't even need to have a driving license to recognise when the road is becoming more cluttered/dangerous.


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## dodgy (13 Nov 2020)

A neighbour of mine initiates a call every single time she leaves the house, door slams, engine starts then you can hear "brrrr brrr" as she rings her friend/lover/doctor/whatever. For some they do it just to pass the time, forgetting that their primary duty is to drive the car properly, you can't do that on the phone.


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## straas (13 Nov 2020)

byegad said:


> That's interesting, thank you. I wonder if there's similar research on talking to passengers?



I read a study a few years back where it was shown to be much more distracting being on hands free than talking to passengers for a few reasons.

A passenger can see if there's a junction / hazard up ahead and is likely to stop talking as a result. If you pause on the phone when making a quick decision around lane changing etc. you might get a "hello, hello, are you there, hello?" so there's a lot more demand on your concentration than with a passenger.

I was on the phone to a colleague and he managed to take the wrong lane out of bristol and headed to london instead of manchester - only an annoyance for him in that case, but he wouldn't have made the same mistake if he hadn't been on the phone.

Our workplace, and a lot of others now explicitly ban mobile phone use in the car excepting for navigation or to keep emergency alerts on in the event of a crash.


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## Archie_tect (13 Nov 2020)

sheddy said:


> A passenger should be able to sense an approaching hazard/driver workload/decision making and wait before annoying their driver.


You've clearly never met my mother.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Nov 2020)

dan_bo said:


> Yes you're right obviously but life isn't like that. Just because there's a risk involved in an activity- even to other people potentially- doesn't mean it shouldn't happen at any cost.



But it does in this case. It’s as bad as drinking a few pints before driving.


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## byegad (13 Nov 2020)

straas said:


> I read a study a few years back where it was shown to be much more distracting being on hands free than talking to passengers for a few reasons.
> 
> A passenger can see if there's a junction / hazard up ahead and is likely to stop talking as a result. If you pause on the phone when making a quick decision around lane changing etc. you might get a "hello, hello, are you there, hello?" so there's a lot more demand on your concentration than with a passenger.
> 
> ...


Makes a lot of sense!


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## mjr (13 Nov 2020)

dan_bo said:


> Well hows about mandatory signal jammers in cars then. If the government was arsed about it they'd sort it in a shot. It's not a black and white issue.


Why punish passengers of careful drivers?


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## classic33 (13 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> Why punish passengers of careful drivers?


Is your call *that* important?


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## IaninSheffield (14 Nov 2020)

Coupled with legislation against the use of phones, perhaps motor manufacturers ought to be ... encouraged(?) to design out hands-free technology?
My last two cars had hands-free systems; in seven years, never felt the need, let alone desire, to use it.


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## DRM (14 Nov 2020)

You can send an automated text to say "Can't talk now I'm driving I'll call back later", but it still involves touching the screen! surely if the designers had a setting you could switch on that would send the text if you rejected the call (using the steering wheel control on hands free) that would be better all round, and easier than blocking signals in the car.


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## shep (14 Nov 2020)

'Used the big stick'?
You really have got a high opinion of yourself mate, I pity your missus, I really do.


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## steve292 (15 Nov 2020)

straas said:


> Our workplace, and a lot of others now explicitly ban mobile phone use in the car excepting for navigation or to keep emergency alerts on in the event of a crash


Where I work it is forbidden and treated as gross misconduct if you are reported using a phone at the wheel of a company vehicle. If I take a call in the Control Room and the driver is moving and on the phone , I am required to tell them to hang up and call back from a stopped vehicle.


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## cougie uk (15 Nov 2020)

My employer banned use of phones whilst driving. Even hands free. If we rang someone and they were driving we told them to let us know when they were stopped and return the call then. 

My wife still used her hands free right up until the minute we saw a woman sail past us stopped at a red light and screech to a halt in the middle of a busy junction. She was distracted talking on hands free.
She could have killed someone just for the sake of a chat. 

Just don't do it kids.


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## Drago (15 Nov 2020)

shep said:


> 'Used the big stick'?
> You really have got a high opinion of yourself mate, I pity your missus, I really do.


I pity his missus too - he has a 14 inch winky


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Nov 2020)

Drago said:


> I pity his missus too - he has a 14 inch winky



The new IPhone 14


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## DRM (15 Nov 2020)

cougie uk said:


> My employer banned use of phones whilst driving. Even hands free. If we rang someone and they were driving we told them to let us know when they were stopped and return the call then.
> 
> My wife still used her hands free right up until the minute we saw a woman sail past us stopped at a red light and screech to a halt in the middle of a busy junction. She was distracted talking on hands free.
> She could have killed someone just for the sake of a chat.
> ...


We had exactly the same thing, cretin in a Vauxhall Vivaro shot between us and a motorcyclist, emergency braking, we were sat at a red traffic light, I could see the Samsung Mobile in the tw*ts hand as his van screeched to a halt about 50 yards through the lights with all four wheels locked up, the Police were dealing with a car they'd pulled about 400 yards behind us and one of them ran up to see what was going on to find the motorbike on the floor, the rider looking shocked, and me checking the side of my car, the van missed my car by mm's, and had skimmed the bikers right foot and smashed the right foot peg off, however despite me telling the plod what I'd seen, this idiot had hidden the phone and they really couldn't be arsed looking for it, so he got away with it, other than an insurance claim to repair the bike, and recover it.
The biker could quite easily have been killed.


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## Drago (15 Nov 2020)

The dibble don't have a power to search for it in the situation you describe.


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## DRM (15 Nov 2020)

Drago said:


> The dibble don't have a power to search for it in the situation you describe.


But they did have a half hearted look for it.


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## Kryton521 (17 Nov 2020)

Phones and cars are a deadly mix. Hands free or otherwise. No call or text is that frelling important.


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## jay clock (21 Nov 2020)

DRM said:


> You can send an automated text to say "Can't talk now I'm driving I'll call back later", but it still involves touching the screen! surely if the designers had a setting you could switch on that would send the text if you rejected the call (using the steering wheel control on hands free) that would be better all round, and easier than blocking signals in the car.


https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphae754533b/ios

iPhone allows automated text message of that type


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## confusedcyclist (23 Nov 2020)

Most people are ignorant of the dangers on our roads, and the risks they pose to others, sadly other's just don't care, you need to appeal to people's capacity for empathy, if they are sociopaths, then your sheet out of luck. We need our government to show leadership on this issue. Taking a stand against the status quo is bold, expect to suffer many a cold shoulder unless you take the time to calmly and rationally put your case forward. Reacting in the way you did was counter productive, whilst it might appear reasonable to yourself, you've harmed your own cause by shutting down the conversation around the issue. @I like Skol may benefit from practicing a form of discussion termed 'non-violent communication'. Look it up if you are interested in influencing others with more success.


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## John482 (15 Dec 2020)

I'm not a fan of phone use while driving either. I just let it ring. I don't really text at all. I just carry an old style flip phone as so called "smart" phones track you every where you go. I know there is a message you can set up that will play telling the caller that you are driving and can't answer the phone. That said, this is how I handle things. That's me, I think it's a good idea I think it would be good if everyone did it etc etc. It's human nature to think our ideas are best , they're tried and true to us. But, there is a deeper and more important issue here. We must never try and force our ideas , our ways on others. That is the way of the tyrant. Always fight that both in ourselves and in others as hard as we can. Freedom is the most precious thing of all.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Dec 2020)

John482 said:


> But, there is a deeper and more important issue here. We must never try and force our ideas , our ways on others. That is the way of the tyrant. Always fight that both in ourselves and in others as hard as we can. Freedom is the most precious thing of all.



In the context of road safety and the deaths of five people daily on UK roads, I think our ideas need to forced much more strongly on those who would put others at risk. Using a phone while driving impairs a driver's reaction time to levels far worse than that of a drunk driver.


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## Electric_Andy (15 Dec 2020)

You are entitled to voice your opinion. But I'm not sure (in terms of etiquette) that continuously talking over your wife's conversation was the right thing to do, morally. You've made your feelings known, and both your wife and her friend are then free to do as they please as long as no-one was breaking the law. I agree hands-free is very unsafe but it's not against the law. If it is not against the law then it just becomes something you disagree with.


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## John482 (15 Dec 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> In the context of road safety and the deaths of five people daily on UK roads, I think our ideas need to forced much more strongly on those who would put others at risk. Using a phone while driving impairs a driver's reaction time to levels far worse than that of a drunk driver.


You could be right, I can't really say in terms of the UK. I've never noticed much of a problem in the US where I live but I don't live in a big city either.


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## glasgowcyclist (15 Dec 2020)

John482 said:


> You could be right, I can't really say in terms of the UK. I've never noticed much of a problem in the US where I live but I don't live in a big city either.




There's no reason to expect a different outcome wherever you are.


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## BoldonLad (15 Dec 2020)

I like Skol said:


> ........
> 
> How should we be treating people we know that use a phone while driving?* IMO it should become an activity that is as socially unacceptable and discouraged as drink driving*. I'm sure that there have been studies that show handsfree phone use to be at least as dangerous as drink driving?



Would not disagree with that.

If they are using "hands free", then, technically, they are not breaking the rules, but, personally, if any of our offspring, friends or acquaintances phone me while driving, (hands free of not), I politely end the conversation and ask tell them I. will speak to them later, when they have finished driving.


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## Ajax Bay (15 Dec 2020)

John482 said:


> We must never try and force our ideas , our ways on others. That is the way of the tyrant. Always fight that both in ourselves and in others as hard as we can. Freedom is the most precious thing of all.


Communities work best if people work to a set of rules. Some rules are more important than others and I'd say rules proscribing activities which generate unacceptable risk of hazard to others - for example the rules on the use of mobile phones, or driving when 'under the influence' by drivers of vehicles - need to be enforced, for the common good. This is not 'forcing our ideas on others' or tyranny. This is enforcing community rules (wherever in the world, including the USA) against the tyranny of individual pseudo-freedom, so everyone, including an errant driver in this case, is kept as safe as reasonably practical. With freedom comes responsibility.
In the same way but different, mask wearing circumstances reduces the risk to others close by of viral infection (even though of minimal benefit to the wearer). I presume that the sensible element of USA's population, including you, have grasped that, helped by their President-elect. It is a small infringement of freedom, but a worthwhile one. (NB Discussion of mask wearing is 'off topic' - but I'm using it as a topical example of the sensible restraint on freedom to which people across the world can relate.)


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## Archie_tect (15 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> The dibble don't have a power to search for it in the situation you describe.


They have access to mobile phone records to prove usage though... or is that just in TV dramas?


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## kynikos (16 Dec 2020)

...and here's another useful report


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## boydj (16 Dec 2020)

John482 said:


> I'm not a fan of phone use while driving either. I just let it ring. I don't really text at all. I just carry an old style flip phone as so called "smart" phones track you every where you go. I know there is a message you can set up that will play telling the caller that you are driving and can't answer the phone. That said, this is how I handle things. That's me, I think it's a good idea I think it would be good if everyone did it etc etc. It's human nature to think our ideas are best , they're tried and true to us. But, there is a deeper and more important issue here. We must never try and force our ideas , our ways on others. That is the way of the tyrant. Always fight that both in ourselves and in others as hard as we can. Freedom is the most precious thing of all.



There is no 'freedom' to break the law. Hand-held phone use is illegal because it is dangerously distracting.

Even hands-free phone use when driving is distracting and therefore dangerous, but unfortunately not illegal.


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## Ajax Bay (16 Dec 2020)

kynikos said:


> ...and here's another useful report


Written in 2002, before the relevant legislation was introduced. But thank you for sharing: some useful stats.
Take aways: https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
Consultation on revisions to tighten up and remove loopholes in current law: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...t-road-safety-and-close-mobile-phone-loophole
A further snapshot into driver behaviour in the UK. (Leeds Uni project July 2019, commissioned by the DoT)


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## marzjennings (17 Dec 2020)

I find this conversation interesting and I feel somewhat out of touch as I live in city with barely any restrictions on cell phone use while driving. Everybody still calls, texts, tweets, grams or whatever while driving and nobody gives it a second look. I mostly use bluetooth while driving, but occasionally hold the phone to my ear. I have to watch myself when I travel home to Cornwall as I still have a tendency to grab the phone will I drive to use google maps or text folks I'm on the way. 

Generally I've found that humans rarely change unless forced to do so, even when the change is of benefit to the human race.


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## Ajax Bay (17 Dec 2020)

Are there not state laws which govern mobile phone use while driving?
G**gle finds this first: https://www.jrlawfirm.com/news/texas-texting-and-driving-laws/
"Do we really need a law to stop drivers from texting and driving?
"In 2014 alone, 3,179 people in the U.S. were killed in crashes involving distracted drivers, and an additional 431,000 were injured. In 2016, there were 109,658 traffic crashes in Texas alone that involved distracted driving, leading to over 3,000 serious injuries and at least 455 fatalities. The sobering truth is that texting while driving makes a car accident 23 times more likely to occur.
"While we can debate the effectiveness and enforceability of these distracted driving laws, these same arguments can be (and were) made with regard to seat belt laws emerging in the 1960s. Just because something is difficult to enforce, that doesn’t mean we should ignore the issue."
Connects with 'freedom' discussion from @John482
Surely there are public campaigns to reduce the misery resulting from serious or fatal incidents with a contributory cause of phone use while driving.


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## SteveLowles (17 Dec 2020)

DRM said:


> You can send an automated text to say "Can't talk now I'm driving I'll call back later", but it still involves touching the screen! surely if the designers had a setting you could switch on that would send the text if you rejected the call (using the steering wheel control on hands free) that would be better all round, and easier than blocking signals in the car.


IOS have a do not disturb function that can send an automatic text if you’re driving


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## chris-suffolk (17 Dec 2020)

Reminds me of a story I heard, from Germany I think.

Youngster turns up at the test center for their driving test, and after a few minutes the examiner signals them to turn onto a disussed airfield. Where-upon they are told to take out their phone and call the number they are given. They are then told that they must continue a normal conversation with the person on the other end, whilst at the same time navigating the series of cones without hitting any. Starting to complain, they point out the stupidity of what they have been asked to do. The examiner rests their case........


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## the snail (18 Dec 2020)

chris-suffolk said:


> Reminds me of a story I heard, from Germany I think.
> 
> Youngster turns up at the test center for their driving test, and after a few minutes the examiner signals them to turn onto a disussed airfield. Where-upon they are told to take out their phone and call the number they are given. They are then told that they must continue a normal conversation with the person on the other end, whilst at the same time navigating the series of cones without hitting any. Starting to complain, they point out the stupidity of what they have been asked to do. The examiner rests their case........



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbjSWDwJILs


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## Drago (24 Dec 2020)

Investigatory Powers Act means they can only apply for such data for serious investigations (theres a schedule of what constitutes a serious offence in this regard), or where life and limb is at risk.


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## Smokin Joe (30 Dec 2020)

chris-suffolk said:


> Reminds me of a story I heard, from Germany I think.


I'd bet on an urban myth.


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## RichardB (11 Jan 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'd bet on an urban myth.



See Snail's post above. It has happened, and very revealing it was too.


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