# Masters competitor busted for hidden electric motor



## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Why anybody would put a motor in his bike to cheat is beyond me - and for an amateur race?

http://cyclingmagazine.ca/spotlight/53-year-old-masters-cyclist-caught-hidden-motor/

"A masters cyclist has been caught using an electric motor in his bike at an amateur race in the north of Italy according to Italian media.

A 53-year-old Italian cyclist was caught on Saturday with a motor in his bike at a race in Bedizzole, near Brescia. The organizers detected the motor using a thermal camera during the event according to _La Gazzetta dello Sport_.
According to _Tuttobici_, cyclist Alessandro Andreol finished third in the race and was asked to bring his bike the commissaires for further inspection after the race. Dissembling Andreol’s Argon 18 was unnecessary as he admitted his guilt and left the race. The first five finishers all had their bikes checked."


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2017)

Seems incredible, but then people cheat at monopoly when there is nothing at stake so it is bound to be going on.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Jul 2017)

When I read the title I pictured....


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## ocianbricles (30 Jul 2017)

Unless the rewards are great, there's no point in winning because at heart you know you didn't really win because of cheating. Something you know you're going to have to live with . . . Unless, as I say, there is some large material reward!


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

They all like they need an electric motor.


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## User33236 (30 Jul 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> Unless the rewards are great, there's no point in winning because at heart you know you didn't really win because of cheating. Something you know you're going to have to live with . . . Unless, as I say, there is some large material reward!


Still not a valid excuse IMHO. Cheating is cheating regardless of the reward and consequences should be severe for those caught.


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

He should be given a special prize since he's bloody brilliant. Anyone who can hide a motor and a battery inside a bicycle frame with no external evidence of its existence, deserves to wear yellow. Good on him, in the name of engineering.


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## CUBE CRD (30 Jul 2017)

ocianbricles said:


> Unless the rewards are great, there's no point in winning because at heart you know you didn't really win because of cheating. Something you know you're going to have to live with . . . Unless, as I say, there is some large material reward!



What about the London Marathon...taking short cuts etc.
They want a reward without too much effort...even if it's only a faster 'completion' time....


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## palinurus (30 Jul 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He should be given a special prize since he's bloody brilliant. Anyone who can hide a motor and a battery inside a bicycle frame with no external evidence of its existence, deserves to wear yellow. Good on him, in the name of engineering.



It's relatively straightforward if using a Vivax assist motor, the motor is- by design- hidden inside the seat tube. Making up a battery pack which fits inside the same tube would not be difficult.


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## Smokin Joe (30 Jul 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He should be given a special prize since he's bloody brilliant. Anyone who can hide a motor and a battery inside a bicycle frame with no external evidence of its existence, deserves to wear yellow. Good on him, in the name of engineering.


They are available off the shelf, though.


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## winjim (30 Jul 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He should be given a special prize since he's bloody brilliant. Anyone who can hide a motor and a battery inside a bicycle frame with no external evidence of its existence, deserves to wear yellow. Good on him, in the name of engineering.


You're the only one here with any competitive spirit.


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

Battery would fit under the saddle.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He should be given a special prize since he's bloody brilliant. Anyone who can hide a motor and a battery inside a bicycle frame with no external evidence of its existence, deserves to wear yellow. Good on him, in the name of engineering.



Well it's not like he designed and built it himself - they've been around for a while now


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> You're the only one here with any competitive spirit.


Well, fair's fair.


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## midlife (30 Jul 2017)

classic33 said:


> Battery would fit under the saddle.



Might be a bit of a giveaway


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> They are available off the shelf, though.



Now you tell me. All these years I've been struggling along trying to beat Johnny next door. If only I'd known.


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## Levo-Lon (30 Jul 2017)

My mrs got all upset the other week after a chap buzzed past her going uphill on a leccy mtb.

She was in eco on her leccy mtb ..that bloke must have been in bloody sport mode she cried..Not that she's competitive 
He was cheating in her view..i just gasped air while giving it my all on my pedal powered mtb and said its shocking what people will de to beat the opposition dear..


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

midlife said:


> Might be a bit of a giveaway
> 
> View attachment 365213



If that old geezer had any fighting spirit he would have painted that battery to look like a saddle bag. He could even have stuck a zip around it with glue and painted it to look like canvas.


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

midlife said:


> Might be a bit of a giveaway
> 
> View attachment 365213





classic33 said:


> _"The basic vivax Assist package costs in the vicinity of *AUD $4,300(£2,178)* and comes with a battery pack, a saddle bag for housing the battery, a charger, a seatpost for housing an electronic control unit, the motor itself and the adapters necessary to connect the motor to the crankshaft of the bike."_





classic33 said:


> AIGLE, Switzerland — Caught using a hidden motor at a world championship race, cyclo-cross rider Femke Van Den Driessche of Belgium has been banned from cycling for six years.
> 
> The sanction imposed Tuesday by the International Cycling Union is a first using its rules on technological fraud.
> 
> ...


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> If that old geezer had any fighting spirit he would have painted that battery to look like a saddle bag. He could even have stuck a zip around it with glue and painted it to look like canvas.



They scan the bikes with a heat sensor at the finish, so your idea - while brilliant - would ultimately fail


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## winjim (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> They scan the bikes with a heat sensor at the finish, so your idea - while brilliant - would ultimately fail


Right. We just need to design in a massive heat sink. Couple it to a water bottle maybe?


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> They scan the bikes with a heat sensor at the finish, so your idea - while brilliant - would ultimately fail


But I have a cunning plan for that. I'm designing a fan as we speak.


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> Right. We just need to design in a massive heat sink. Couple it to a water bottle maybe?


Water cooling via Camelback?


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> They scan the bikes with a heat sensor at the finish, so your idea - while brilliant - would ultimately fail


Cool down is fairly rapid once its no longer under power. Thermal scanning wouldn't work.


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

winjim said:


> Right. We just need to design in *a massive heat sink.* Couple it to a water bottle maybe?


Bike frame!


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## winjim (30 Jul 2017)

classic33 said:


> Cool down is fairly rapid once its no longer under power. Thermal scanning wouldn't work.


Thermal scanning is how our protagonist was caught. But during the event, not at the finish.



classic33 said:


> Bike frame!


Steel then, not carbon obviously.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

Let me know when you come up with an absolutely foolproof design...


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## winjim (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Let me know when you come up with an absolutely foolproof design...


Maybe somebody already has.


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## Lee_M (30 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> Why anybody would put a motor in his bike to cheat is beyond me - and for an amateur race



a team cheated in the 3rd place tie break of our local pub quiz last week.
the prize was a 1/4 bottle of prosecco - between 4 of them!


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

meta lon said:


> My mrs got all upset the other week after a chap buzzed past her going uphill on a leccy mtb.
> 
> She was in eco on her leccy mtb ..that bloke must have been in bloody sport mode she cried..Not that she's competitive
> He was cheating in her view..i just gasped air while giving it my all on my pedal powered mtb and said its shocking what people will de to beat the opposition dear..


Ha ha, brilliant. My Mrs is very much like that, I've always wondered if they teach them that in school.


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## youngoldbloke (30 Jul 2017)

Vivax offer a concealed battery option http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/e-rennrad/fahrrad.php?id=1219
I'm very tempted. Trouble with most ebikes is they are pig-ugly, and there's little choice of e-roadbikes.


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## gaijintendo (30 Jul 2017)

To all the people who are perplexed at why someone would do this. Some people enjoy cheating and getting away with it. Being third, or an undeserved 20th and getting away with it might be the win they needed.

I would suggest this is more likely a scenario in amateur racing at the age of 53, than a professional racing environment. But who knows


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## Drago (30 Jul 2017)

youngoldbloke said:


> Vivax offer a concealed battery option http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/e-rennrad/fahrrad.php?id=1219
> I'm very tempted. Trouble with most ebikes is they are pig-ugly, and there's little choice of e-roadbikes.



You'd never think anything was concealed in such a slim down tube


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2017)

Lee_M said:


> a team cheated in the 3rd place tie break of our local pub quiz last week.
> the prize was a 1/4 bottle of prosecco - between 4 of them!


There we go. The rewards are certainly worthwhile. I'd do it.


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## winjim (30 Jul 2017)

Drago said:


> You'd never think anything was concealed in such a slim down tube


Why are they wasting money on fancy heat detection equipment? All they need to do is look out for bikes with _Vivax_ written on them in massive lettering.

ETA: Although I don't think there's anything actually in the downtube. The motor's in the seat tube with the battery either in a bottle or hidden in the seatpost.

ETA2: The battery's in the bottle. The controller's in the seatpost.


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## Drago (30 Jul 2017)

The very early days of WAP mobile phones, about 1998, I was on a team who cheated in pub quizes. The team was called "Volvo - Boxy But Good" (by pure fluke we all had Volvos), and my wealthy mate would use his Nokia 7110 to sneakily find the answers to gnarly questions.

I recall we drank a lot of free Guinness. Nice to think were were pioneers of early e-crime.


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## dave r (30 Jul 2017)

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how-they-work/


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## User169 (30 Jul 2017)

Drago said:


> The very early days of WAP mobile phones, about 1998, I was on a team who cheated in pub quizes. The team was called "Volvo - Boxy But Good" (by pure fluke we all had Volvos), and my wealthy mate would use his Nokia 7110 to sneakily find the answers to gnarly questions.
> 
> I recall we drank a lot of free Guinness. Nice to think were were pioneers of early e-crime.



Your punishment was to drink guinness.


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## Slick (30 Jul 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> To all the people who are perplexed at why someone would do this. Some people enjoy cheating and getting away with it. Being third, or an undeserved 20th and getting away with it might be the win they needed.
> 
> I would suggest this is more likely a scenario in amateur racing at the age of 53, than a professional racing environment. But who knows


I think you are exactly right. I know one guy in particular who no matter what the reward or lack thereof, will cheat his way to some advantage, for no other reason than he can.


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## classic33 (30 Jul 2017)

DP said:


> Your punishment was to drink guinness.


What's wrong with Guinness?


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## Drago (30 Jul 2017)

Free Guinness tastes lovely.


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## Cronorider (30 Jul 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> To all the people who are perplexed at why someone would do this. Some people enjoy cheating and getting away with it. Being third, or an undeserved 20th and getting away with it might be the win they needed.




Good point


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## Globalti (31 Jul 2017)

Crap journalism alert.. the motor was supposedly hidden in the seat tube yet the thermal image in the linked article is of a warm rear wheel.


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## Pale Rider (31 Jul 2017)

Globalti said:


> Crap journalism alert.. the motor was supposedly hidden in the seat tube yet the thermal image in the linked article is of a warm rear wheel.



It's the (customer driven) picture book mentality - everything has to have images.

The photo of the lad scanning the Cube bike with his tablet is nothing directly to do with the story either.

Photos of the story itself may not be available, or the (free) website lacks the resources to get them, so they have to resort to 'stock' images, given that no one would read the story if it was text only.


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## Cronorider (31 Jul 2017)

Globalti said:


> Crap journalism alert.. the motor was supposedly hidden in the seat tube yet the thermal image in the linked article is of a warm rear wheel.



It's unlikely that there would have been news coverage of the event at the time, so they report the story, and throw in a couple of stock images to attract attention. Basic facts in the story are correct though as far as I can tell.


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## gaijintendo (31 Jul 2017)

Cronorider said:


> It's unlikely that there would have been news coverage of the event at the time, so they report the story, and throw in a couple of stock images to attract attention. Basic facts in the story are correct though as far as I can tell.


I suspect every news story needs an image in this day in age for linking internally/Google news etc. Stock photos are easier than permission from Flickr photographer's permissions for under reported events.


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## Cronorider (31 Jul 2017)

THE PLOT THICKENS!!! 'Allegedly' busted amateur now denies having motor and gives the predictable sorts of excuses

http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/news/italian-amateur-53-denies-motor-cheating-accusation_444978


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## classic33 (31 Jul 2017)

How'd they explain the motor?


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## Drago (31 Jul 2017)

He forgot the name of the acquaintance he bought the bike off?

Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty!!!!!!


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## ColinJ (31 Jul 2017)

Drago said:


> He forgot the name of the acquaintance he bought the bike off?


It is _possible_ - I forgot my _own_ name once!


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## Tin Pot (31 Jul 2017)

Drago said:


> The very early days of WAP mobile phones, about 1998, I was on a team who cheated in pub quizes. The team was called "Volvo - Boxy But Good" (by pure fluke *we all had Volvos*), and my wealthy mate would use his Nokia 7110 to sneakily find the answers to gnarly questions.
> 
> I recall we drank a lot of free Guinness. Nice to think were were pioneers of early e-crime.



I'm taking a wild guess that the prize money didn't go on coke and hookers.


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## classic33 (1 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> The very early days of WAP mobile phones, about 1998, I was on a team who cheated in pub quizes. The team was called "Volvo - Boxy But Good" (by pure fluke we all had Volvos), and my wealthy mate would use his *Nokia 7110* to sneakily find the answers to gnarly questions.
> 
> I recall we drank a lot of free Guinness. Nice to think were were pioneers of early e-crime.


Launched in October 1999!


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## Erudin (1 Aug 2017)




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## Pale Rider (1 Aug 2017)

Erudin said:


> View attachment 365454



Is that a carbon bicycle?

If so, it makes it having a motorino less likely.

The motor must be located by a bolt through the seat tube, otherwise the motor would spin in the tube rather than use its power to turn the bottom bracket.

The locating bolt/rivet is also another way to tell if the the bike has a motor.

It's possible to disguise the bolt/rivet head by paint or by putting it under a decal, but someone running their fingertips around the tube would feel it.


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## gaijintendo (1 Aug 2017)

Cronorider said:


> THE PLOT THICKENS!!! 'Allegedly' busted amateur now denies having motor and gives the predictable sorts of excuses
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/news/italian-amateur-53-denies-motor-cheating-accusation_444978


If there turns out to be a crime, then he has no choice but to backpedal as hard and fast along that route as possible.


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## Drago (1 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> Launched in October 1999!


I did say 'about'.

One could always design a keyway into the motor and a small ridge into the wall of the tube, or make the tube any shape in cross section other than exactly circular and manufacturer the external motor casing to suit, thus emilinating the need for an externally visible bolt.


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## gaijintendo (1 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> I did say 'about'.
> 
> One could always design a keyway into the motor and a small ridge into the wall of the tube, or make the tube any shape in cross section other than exactly circular and manufacturer the external motor casing to suit, thus emilinating the need for an externally visible bolt.


Does it have to be the seat tube? Stick it on the down tube, and anchor it with a bottle cage.


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## Drago (1 Aug 2017)

That's a cracking idea.


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## winjim (1 Aug 2017)

If it's in the downtube how do you access it for setup and maintenance?


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## Pale Rider (1 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> If it's in the downtube how do you access it for setup and maintenance?



It's in the seat tube.

There's not much about fitting on the website, but you need a custom bottom bracket, and I don't see how you can do a lot more than drop the motor into the tube, which then meshes with the gear on the bottom bracket.

The motor shouldn't require a lot of maintenance, but presumably it would drop out if you up ended the bike - having first removed the saddle post.

The motor must also have wires to it for electric power, so you could possibly yank it out using those, although it's not clear to me how the wires are routed.

I suspect you need a saddle post which is open at the top, which would rule out some types of saddle mounts.

Incidentally, the site says 'carbon - on request', so it looks like there may be a way to fit a Vivax to a carbon bike.

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/technology/retrofitting.html


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## winjim (1 Aug 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> It's in the seat tube.
> 
> There's not much about fitting on the website, but you need a custom bottom bracket, and I don't see how you can do a lot more than drop the motor into the tube, which then meshes with the gear on the bottom bracket.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is in the seat tube. Silly me for not reading the thread properly.

ETA: Carbon


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## Cronorider (1 Aug 2017)

CYCLING NEWS ARTICLE!! - "Four ways to hide motor doping in a race bike"

Alleged cheater (guilty) makes big-time coverage - just not in the way he expected

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-four-ways-to-hide-motor-doping-in-a-race-bike/


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## Cronorider (1 Aug 2017)

"the Tuscan coast is one of the hot spots for the sale of bikes fitted with hidden motors, with a former professional licence holder reportedly acting as a dealer with one of the leading producers of mechanical doping devices from eastern Europe..."

Well I know where I'm taking my next vacation... wonder how much my new bike is gonna set me back


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Aug 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> The locating bolt/rivet is also another way to tell if the the bike has a motor.
> 
> It's possible to disguise the bolt/rivet head by paint or by putting it under a decal



Maybe they could have modified the front mech clamp to facilitate/disguise the locating bolt...


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## Cronorider (1 Aug 2017)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Maybe they could have modified the front mech clamp to facilitate/disguise the locating bolt...



see article
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-four-ways-to-hide-motor-doping-in-a-race-bike/


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Aug 2017)

Cronorider said:


> see article
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-four-ways-to-hide-motor-doping-in-a-race-bike/




It doesn't say how the motor was secured.


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## winjim (1 Aug 2017)

Cronorider said:


> see article
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-four-ways-to-hide-motor-doping-in-a-race-bike/


Adapt a bike, buy a bike, steal a bike, buy a frame. Not terribly informative.


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## Lozz360 (1 Aug 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> Does it have to be the seat tube? Stick it on the down tube, and anchor it with a bottle cage.


But how would you insert it? With the seat tube method you could just remove the seat post and let it slide down and connect to a special gear arrangement in the bottom bracket. I can't see how you could do similar with the down teube.


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## Cronorider (1 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> Adapt a bike, buy a bike, steal a bike, buy a frame. Not terribly informative.



The point is these bikes are available for purchase to those who want them - and that these motors can be installed in such a way that they are virtually undetectable. Now do we have to keep going on about how to hide batteries and bolt heads?


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## winjim (1 Aug 2017)

Cronorider said:


> The point is these bikes are available for purchase to those who want them - and that these motors can be installed in such a way that they are virtually undetectable. Now do we have to keep going on about how to hide batteries and bolt heads?


We don't _have_ to, but it's a bit of fun for those of us who are technically minded. But that article promised four ways to hide a motor, and delivered nothing of the sort.


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## Drago (1 Aug 2017)

I love the technical discussion.


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## Smokin Joe (1 Aug 2017)

All you would need is an expander bolt on the motor similar to that on quill stems.


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## Mr Celine (1 Aug 2017)

Motor and battery disguised as a bidon. The motor drives the crank spindle via a flexible drill shaft. 
Throw the offending bidon away 5k before the finish.


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## Tim Hall (1 Aug 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> All you would need is an expander bolt on the motor similar to that on quill stems.


Would a quill expander bolt give sufficient resistance to the torque involved? I like the front mech bolt idea mentioned up thread.


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## winjim (1 Aug 2017)

Mr Celine said:


> Motor and battery disguised as a bidon. The motor drives the crank spindle via a flexible drill shaft.
> Throw the offending bidon away 5k before the finish.


Leaving you, presumably, with a flexible drill shaft dangling out of your frame and some rather expensive hardware to retrieve from wherever you threw it. And what if you're in a group at the point you need to jettison?


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Would a quill expander bolt give sufficient resistance to the torque involved? I like the front mech bolt idea mentioned up thread.



And you'd also need a foot-long allen key to tighten the bolt.


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## classic33 (2 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> Why are they wasting money on fancy heat detection equipment? All they need to do is look out for bikes with _Vivax_ written on them in massive lettering.
> 
> ETA: Although I don't think there's anything actually in the downtube. The motor's in the seat tube with the battery either in a bottle or hidden in the seatpost.


Or choose the invisible performance package!


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## winjim (2 Aug 2017)

classic33 said:


> Or choose the invisible performance package!
> View attachment 365672


Which puts the battery in a bottle rather than a saddle bag and gives you a wireless rather than a wired controller.


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## Tim Hall (2 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> Which puts the battery in a bottle rather than a saddle bag and gives you a wireless rather than a wired controller.


Reading the installation instructions, it says the battery disguised as a bidon isn't removeable, which would make detection a bit easier.


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## Tim Hall (2 Aug 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> But makes life for bidon-catching small boys at the roadside much safer.


Thank goodness someone is thinking of the children. If only one small boy is kept safe from this Li-ion menace it will have been worth it.


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## winjim (2 Aug 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Thank goodness someone is thinking of the children. If only one small boy is kept safe from this Li-ion menace it will have been worth it.


A Li-ion, a switch and a torque load.


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> A Li-ion, a switch and a torque load.



Ooh, is this guess the punch line to an electrical joke?

Ok, here goes:
"... I couldn't resist her!"


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## Tim Hall (2 Aug 2017)

winjim said:


> A Li-ion, a switch and a torque load.





glasgowcyclist said:


> Ooh, is this guess the punch line to an electrical joke?
> 
> Ok, here goes:
> "... I couldn't resist her!"


All this talk of Li-ions gives me a Stanley Holloway vibe, especially if the small boy has a stick with an 'orse's 'ead 'andle.


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## Pale Rider (2 Aug 2017)

It's a clever pun on The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which is a book for children by C S Lewis.


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Aug 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> It's a clever pun on The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which is a book for children by C S Lewis.



Look mate, nobody asked you. It's Narnia business.


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## winjim (2 Aug 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Reading the installation instructions, it says the battery disguised as a bidon isn't removeable, which would make detection a bit easier.


Could you not somehow incorporate some electrical contacts into the bottle cage, making the bottle/battery itself removable?



Pale Rider said:


> It's a clever pun on The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which is a book for children by C S Lewis.


I thought I recognised the cadence from somewhere.


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## gaijintendo (2 Aug 2017)

Hide the motor in your shoes.


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## Mugshot (2 Aug 2017)

Bionic shorts?


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## Drago (2 Aug 2017)

Will their come a time when motorised prosthetic legs are so powerful, so life-like, that the authorities will have to have riders scrutineered as closely as the bikes?


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## Oldfentiger (2 Aug 2017)

I'm sure that a dedicated cheater could opt for the inter-rectal battery option.


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## Drago (2 Aug 2017)

I don't want to be the race official that has to check competitors for that!


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## Mugshot (2 Aug 2017)

Oldfentiger said:


> I'm sure that a dedicated cheater could opt for the inter-rectal battery option.


Yeah but maybe they just slipped, in the shower or something, it can happen, apparently.


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## midlife (2 Aug 2017)

Drago said:


> I don't want to be the race official that has to check competitors for that!



Just need the right staff....


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## classic33 (2 Aug 2017)

gaijintendo said:


> Hide the motor in your shoes.





classic33 said:


> Electric pedals?
> View attachment 88660


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2017)

These look interesting http://www.goatbikes.com/about.html


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## Drago (2 Aug 2017)

youngoldbloke said:


> These look interesting http://www.goatbikes.com/about.html



I like the way the red one also has anti gravity properties.


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## steveindenmark (4 Oct 2019)

I could not imagine getting up in the morning of the race and getting all geed up, knowing I was going to cheat. I really cannot see the point in attending the race.

Now instead of soaking up the glory by coming third. He will spend the rest of his life being ridiculed by the cycling community he used to belong to.

I think that is justice.


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## winjim (4 Oct 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I could not imagine getting up in the morning of the race and getting all geed up, knowing I was going to cheat. I really cannot see the point in attending the race.
> 
> Now instead of soaking up the glory by coming third. He will spend the rest of his life being ridiculed by the cycling community he used to belong to.
> 
> I think that is justice.


The fact that you consider second loser to be 'basking in glory' suggests to me that you don't possess the competitive spirit neccessary to perform the mental contortions which would convince yourself that you are not cheating, merely giving yourself the edge.

Edit: slight misquote, should be 'soaking up the glory'.


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## steveindenmark (4 Oct 2019)

winjim said:


> The fact that you consider second loser to be 'basking in glory' suggests to me that you don't possess the competitive spirit neccessary to perform the mental contortions which would convince yourself that you are not cheating, merely giving yourself the edge.


Its not what I consider. Its what the guy who got caught cheating considers.


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## Ajax Bay (4 Oct 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I really cannot see the point


Be kind to this thread - it's been dormant for 2+ years, Steve.


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## winjim (4 Oct 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Its not what I consider. Its what the guy who got caught cheating considers.


You wrote 'soaking up the glory'.


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## Globalti (4 Oct 2019)

I'm in Africa right now where "sports age" is a common cheat. You bribe the passport officer to declare your child as a year or two younger than they are so that they will always have an advantage in school sports. Like doping, if you don't do it you're a fool. Remember those supposedly juvenile African refugees who were admitted to the UK a few years ago and all looked remarkably mature with beards and big muscles?


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## steveindenmark (4 Oct 2019)

winjim said:


> You wrote 'soaking up the glory'.


Yes. The guy who came third would be soaking up the glory, in his mind.


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## winjim (4 Oct 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Yes. The guy who came third would be soaking up the glory, in his mind.


Ah, I see what you're getting at. Mind you, imagine cheating with a motor and _only_ coming third.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Oct 2019)

winjim said:


> Ah, I see what you're getting at. Mind you, imagine cheating with a motor and _only_ coming third.



He thought they'd only check the winner. Didn't want to make it too obvious.


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## DRM (4 Oct 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> Be kind to this thread - it's been dormant for 2+ years, Steve.


It’s getting like Groundhog Day round here of late


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## Pale Rider (4 Oct 2019)

DRM said:


> It’s getting like Groundhog Day round here of late



The similar threads feature is a cynical attempt by the management to thrash a bit more content out of existing material.

Amount of content/posts being linked to the amount that can be charged for adverts.


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## Yellow Saddle (4 Oct 2019)

winjim said:


> Ah, I see what you're getting at. Mind you, imagine cheating with a motor and _only_ coming third.


Yeah, that's stupid. He should be disqualified for that half-hearted effort.


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## alecstilleyedye (4 Oct 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Is that a carbon bicycle?
> 
> If so, it makes it having a motorino less likely.
> 
> ...


long bottle cage bolt?


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Oct 2019)

Or have it bolted to the end of a long seat post


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## Drago (6 Oct 2019)

Or profile the interior of the tube to act as a key, bond it, all sorts of methods, most of which can be made invisible with a modicum of care.


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