# A good helmet camera?



## Peter91 (22 May 2011)

I seen a couple of people hear have youtube channels(gaz,bbop,magenton) with videos of bad driving, and so was wondering what cameras you use?


----------



## User269 (22 May 2011)

I'm now on my 3rd bike cam, a Drift Innovation HD170. I've never got on with mounting on the helmet, and prefer handlebar mounting. The camera is great in terms of useability, picture, features, battery and memory life, but the supplied handlebar mount will only fit thin handlebars, so I had to buy a 'proper' handlebar camera mount. I only use it for holidays, generally alpine descents; no battery or memory card would accomodate my slow ascents, and the end result would look like slo-mo!


----------



## crazy580 (22 May 2011)

Gaz uses a Contour HD 
I use a Contour GPS


----------



## gaz (22 May 2011)

There is a reason why the links of ContourHD and GoPro cameras are several hundred pounds.
First the quality is outstanding, full HD.
But what separates these cameras from the likes of the Muvi and the cheap bullet cameras are:

a wide range of good mounting options
removable battery
good features
water resistant / water proof
easy to use buttons
good support
wide angle lens


----------



## mummra (22 May 2011)

crazy580 said:


> I use a Contour GPS



Crazy580 have you had any issues with the GPS. I've had so many issues with the damn thing locking up I've requested a refund from Evans this morning.


----------



## gaz (22 May 2011)

mummra said:


> Crazy580 have you had any issues with the GPS. I've had so many issues with the damn thing locking up I've requested a refund from Evans this morning.



Have you tried contacting Contour? Their customer support is good.


----------



## mummra (22 May 2011)

gaz said:


> Have you tried contacting Contour? Their customer support is good.


yeah, been discussing this with them for about a month.
I though the last firmware had fixed it but finally got a locked camera on thursday evening. I then noticed there was a new firmwear posted so upgraded to that.
Now the damn thing locks up in the morning (whereas it was always in the afternoon) so I've had enough.
I paid a lot of money for it and it isn't fit for purpose (never has been).

Now I'm not slating all Contour GPS camera's just mine though a quick peruse on their support site shows and quite a few issues with the GPS camera.

I've asked Evans if they will exchange the GPS for the standard HD camera (especially as I've found it much cheaper than their site)

Their support staff are very good though!


----------



## Peter91 (22 May 2011)

Thanks for the recommendations, after looking at some of the prices I think I'll save up a bit more to get one that will last like the Contor or GoPro. It will cost more than my actual bike


----------



## mumbo jumbo (22 May 2011)

I recently got a Dogcam Bullet HD - just £100 (plus SD card). Quality is not quite as good as some of the others mentioned above but you don't have to remortgage to get it



. Some example footage here : http://www.youtube.com/user/mjbeaker?feature=mhee 

In terms of mounting, I made the happy discovery that this cam fits very securely in the helmet mount for my Exposure Joystick. Perfect!


----------



## crazy580 (22 May 2011)

mummra said:


> Crazy580 have you had any issues with the GPS. I've had so many issues with the damn thing locking up I've requested a refund from Evans this morning.



What do you mean by locking up? Mine has been fine (touch wood), but I have heard on the support forums that a few have been playing up, and contour replaced them.


----------



## Rezillo (22 May 2011)

They are prone to lockup, especially when using larger memory cards (this first started after firmware 1.09). I had my camera replaced and it still had the same problem. 

The way round it for me is not to use Storyteller by disabling it from starting up when the camera is connected to the PC (it writes a few files to the camera on connection which seem to trigger this behaviour), using the files within the application folder to configure the camera rather than Storyteller itself and by resetting the battery before use. It's also essential to format cards via the camera recessed button and not a PC.

The GPS version has picture quality problems which means that the 1080p non-GPS version is a better bet if gps is not essential. New firmware has closed the gap, though, and the GPS 1080p picture now looks very good. It still needs colour balance work, though, and 1080p is unuseable on a bar mount due to rolling shutter effect from road vibration.

Contour customer support is brilliant, can't praise it enough, but the GPS camera has felt like a beta release for months - presumably rushed out to get a step ahead of GoPro. 

John


----------



## mummra (22 May 2011)

Rezillo said:


> The way round it for me is not to use Storyteller by disabling it from starting up when the camera is connected to the PC (it writes a few files to the camera on connection which seem to trigger this behaviour), using the files within the application folder to configure the camera rather than Storyteller itself and by resetting the battery before use. It's also essential to format cards via the camera recessed button and not a PC.
> John



John you may have saved the GPS for me . 
A very quick test and it looks like it could be the Storyteller application.

Well that's easily remedied... uninstall and another support request to Contour.

To be honest when the camera works it works perfectly. It was just the locking up issue that was so frustrating.


----------



## Rezillo (22 May 2011)

mummra said:


> John you may have saved the GPS for me .
> A very quick test and it looks like it could be the Storyteller application.
> 
> Well that's easily remedied... uninstall and another support request to Contour.
> ...



Don't count your chickens - these things have a habit of recurring 

Copy these files to another folder before uninstalling Storyteller;

ContourConfigure.exe
QtCore4.dll
QtGui4.dll
QtNetwork4.dll

Run the exe and you can easily configure the camera without using Storyteller (or you can ignore all this and just edit the text file in the camera).

You don't need to uninstall Storyteller - just don't use it and prevent the autoplay part from running (I use startup.cpl for this). I can't remember if it's a registry setting or a startup folder shortcut but what runs is C:\Program Files\ContourStoryteller\ContourAutoplay.exe.

John


----------



## mummra (22 May 2011)

John,

Yeah i've disabled the autoplay option from within Storyteller and done a few tests and it's looking good.

Just interested to find out what editing application you use instead of Storyteller.
I've very new to video editing and have found the Storyteller application doesn't do very much anyway.
I'm using Windows Live Movie Maker at the moment once I'd used Storyteller to get the files off the camera.


----------



## MossCommuter (22 May 2011)

I know you said "good" but for anyone on a budget... 

I got this the other day for 15 quid (excluding memory card). 


http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?&products_id=110355


It's not easy to use (I have a degree in software engineering but not in Chinglish so didn't undersand a word of the manual) but it _does_ work and I am getting the hang of it _and_ it comes with a handlebar mount.

Here is an example of the results.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e1IDJJse0Q[/media]


----------



## Rezillo (22 May 2011)

mummra said:


> Just interested to find out what editing application you use instead of Storyteller.
> I've very new to video editing and have found the Storyteller application doesn't do very much anyway.
> I'm using Windows Live Movie Maker at the moment once I'd used Storyteller to get the files off the camera.



The simplest free editor for mov files is mpeg streamclip - you can do simple cuts, trimming and file joining without losing the gps data embedded in the video. Quicktime Pro will also do this.

Suppose you want to join file B to File A. Open File B first, then menu Edit/copy. Close File B, Open File A. Menu Edit/go to end/Paste. Wait a few seconds for complete video to appear then use File/Save As. A progress bar will pop up and appear to do nothing for minutes until seconds from the end of the process. 

Do NOT use the File/export commands as these will re-render the video and the GPS data will be lost. The Save As option preserves the original picture quality and data - it just redoes all the time codes etc for the joined file. You can also use the Save As command to trim a single file

I use Dashware for mp4 production with overlaid speed, distance and the like. It's a bit quirky and joined files with time gaps will cause issues with speeds that need some careful sorting out to get right.

John


----------



## Zee (22 May 2011)

MossCommuter said:


> I know you said "good" but for anyone on a budget...
> 
> I got this the other day for 15 quid (excluding memory card).



Sounds good. Video quality doesn't look half bad either. Do you have a name or a link?


----------



## MossCommuter (22 May 2011)

Zee said:


> Sounds good. Video quality doesn't look half bad either. Do you have a name or a link?



Oops

sorry

there was supposed to be a clicky.

Here it is:


http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?&products_id=110355


----------



## BentMikey (22 May 2011)

Having used a VIO POV.1, it's the nicest and best quality helmet camera out there, IMO. I'm likely to get an HD model at some stage, just can't afford it at the moment.


----------



## abo (22 May 2011)

MossCommuter said:


> Oops
> 
> sorry
> 
> ...



Ah cool I never thought about 7dayshop! Thanks for this


----------



## goo_mason (23 May 2011)

A word of warning about that type of camera from 7dayshop; I had one and whilst the results were really impressive, I found that after a couple of months the battery no longer held much of a charge and the recordings lasted no more than a couple of minutes.

It's been sitting unused now since last summer after too many cut-off recordings  

Thinking about a Contour HD if I ever manage to find out whether I'm going to still be in a job by the end of the summer....


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

I've got a Contour HD, and it's very good.

I do have a dilemma though. I want to ditch my helmet (fed up with uncomfortable hot head), but still have a camera on my head somewhere so I can easily point it where I want.
Ideally I would like a camera small and light enough to go on the arm of my glasses, even if that meant running a cable to a seperate recorder. No idea if anything like that exists though.

Any other ideas?


----------



## BSRU (23 May 2011)

benb said:


> I've got a Contour HD, and it's very good.
> 
> I do have a dilemma though. I want to ditch my helmet (fed up with uncomfortable hot head), but still have a camera on my head somewhere so I can easily point it where I want.
> Ideally I would like a camera small and light enough to go on the arm of my glasses, even if that meant running a cable to a seperate recorder. No idea if anything like that exists though.
> ...



A bullet camera, such as the sort sold by dogcamsport.


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> A bullet camera, such as the sort sold by dogcamsport.



http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/dogcam-bullet-hd-camera.html looks good, but battery life is poor.


----------



## BSRU (23 May 2011)

benb said:


> http://www.dogcamspo...-hd-camera.html looks good, but battery life is poor.



Not than one the hDVR 720 one:-

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/minidvr3-bullet-camera.html

The version 2's are alot cheaper.


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

I must admit the VIO HD looks good. Eye-wateringly expensive though.
The camera head is probably small and light enough to mount on the arm of a pair of glasses. I might save up.


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> Not than one the hDVR 720 one:-
> 
> http://www.dogcamspo...let-camera.html
> 
> The version 2's are alot cheaper.



That does look good. 
Wonder what the image quality is like.


----------



## gaz (23 May 2011)

benb said:


> I must admit the VIO HD looks good. Eye-wateringly expensive though.
> The camera head is probably small and light enough to mount on the arm of a pair of glasses. I might save up.



It is bigger than you think, you would have trouble mounting that to your glasses.


----------



## crazy580 (23 May 2011)

Contour make a head strap for their cameras.


----------



## BentMikey (23 May 2011)

gaz said:


> It is bigger than you think, you would have trouble mounting that to your glasses.



+1, I don't think it would be good for that, assuming the head unit is similar in size and weight to the POV.1 which I have.

Someone bought a pair of sunglasses spycamera, I can't remember who, but the footage was surprisingly good, in the Muvi range of quality.


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

Cheers all. Leaning towards the MiniDVR 3.
Check the accessory at the bottom of this page. Looks like I could bodge craft that into my existing cycling glasses.

Of course, I still have to convince the wife that cycling without a helmet is OK!!


----------



## benb (23 May 2011)

Maybe I can convince a surgeon to fit a metal threaded hole into my skull which I can screw a mount into.


----------



## LosingFocus (23 May 2011)

benb said:


> Maybe I can convince a surgeon to fit a metal threaded hole into my skull which I can screw a mount into.



http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-a-camera-in-a-mans-head-proves-to-be-painful


----------



## BentMikey (23 May 2011)

benb said:


> Cheers all. Leaning towards the MiniDVR 3.
> Check the accessory at the bottom of this page. Looks like I could bodge craft that into my existing cycling glasses.
> 
> Of course, I still have to convince the wife that cycling without a helmet is OK!!



That does look like a nice camera! I think LeeW has one. I like the power on-start recording car mode idea. If I ever manage to save up for a Quest velomobile, I might well get two cameras like this to save on fuss.


----------



## wintonbina (23 May 2011)

I,too bought the 7dayshop.com camera. It stopped working after being used twice!!! To be fair they are exchanging it & the picture quality is/was very good once you get used to the instructions(as previously noted above they are a nightmare to understand  ). So very good value if, and only if, it works long enough!


----------



## benb (24 May 2011)

BentMikey said:


> That does look like a nice camera! I think LeeW has one. I like the power on-start recording car mode idea. If I ever manage to save up for a Quest velomobile, I might well get two cameras like this to save on fuss.



I also like the idea of loop mode, where it records 10 mins to a buffer, but only saves it (and then continues to record to SD card) when you push a button on the remote.


----------



## BentMikey (24 May 2011)

The DVR has that too? My VIO does, but I use it less and less nowadays, just record the whole journey instead.


----------



## HLaB (24 May 2011)

I'm only good at advising what not to buy, I've got a ATC5k, its built like a brick (robustness is the only thing its got going for it) but its too big and heavy, the video quality is poor and the sound is even worse. I also borrowed an AT1 for a project its concept is OK but nothing else about it is OK, its quality is pants too and its battery life (one in the camera and one in the recorder) is terrible and unpredictable (well thats a lie its predictably Raphael Phillipe Sheidt).


----------



## benb (24 May 2011)

BentMikey said:


> The DVR has that too? My VIO does, but I use it less and less nowadays, just record the whole journey instead.



I think so - the description on that site leaves a little to be desired. I might drop them a mail to check.


----------



## magnatom (24 May 2011)

Hi Guys,

Came across this thread and just thought I'd mention that I will have comparative video from four cameras (POV.HD, Drift HD170, Contour GPS, and Dogcam Bullet HD on my blog by the end of the week. 

By comparative, I mean that I wore all 4 cameras at the same time! Yes I did look like a complete plonker (I have a photo!). As this is coinciding with an article that I wrote for Cycle (CTC magazine) that will be out in a few days as well, I'll be waiting a further week before I put up my more detailed thoughts on the 4 cameras. 

I have to say I was surprised by some of the video results, especially the night time footage....


----------



## magnatom (24 May 2011)

benb said:


> I think so - the description on that site leaves a little to be desired. I might drop them a mail to check.



I honestly think you'd regret the DVR 3. It would have similar quality to my dogcam set up (HQ2 and HQRII recorder), and I have upgraded to one of the cameras that I tested. Big difference in quality.


----------



## benb (24 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> I honestly think you'd regret the DVR 3. It would have similar quality to my dogcam set up (HQ2 and HQRII recorder), and I have upgraded to one of the cameras that I tested. Big difference in quality.



Maybe what I want doesn't exist.

I like the quality of the Contour HD that I currently use. But it is a bit heavy, as it's all one unit.

So, I want a bullet cam that's small and light enough to mount on the arms of a pair of glasses. Realistically that means a cable to a separate recorder. That's fine.

The DVR 3 looked like it ticked that, but I don't want to lose too much quality over the Contour HD, and 720p doesn't guarantee good picture quality.

Does anyone have direct experience with the DVR3, or some sample footage?


----------



## Rezillo (24 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Came across this thread and just thought I'd mention that I will have comparative video from four cameras (POV.HD, Drift HD170, Contour GPS, and Dogcam Bullet HD on my blog by the end of the week.
> 
> ...



The Contour GPS had a firmware update last week that has dramatically improved its picture quality. There's still some minor colour balance to sort out but that should be fixed soon. I was doing some beta testing for this issue but a switch in my camera has broken, so back it goes to Contour (again) 

John


----------



## magnatom (25 May 2011)

Rezillo said:


> The Contour GPS had a firmware update last week that has dramatically improved its picture quality. There's still some minor colour balance to sort out but that should be fixed soon. I was doing some beta testing for this issue but a switch in my camera has broken, so back it goes to Contour (again)
> 
> John



Yes I did the test before the recent improvements in the GPS. 

I know you have used dashware (nice piece of software) however, I'm having a problem with it. I have some Contour GPS data that I recorded in Tall Hd mode (960p) and I want to add a speed dial. It all works fine except when I try to save it in HD mode it squashes the image (stretched horizontally). Do you have any idea if I can save it as 960p in the correct aspect ration on Dashware?


----------



## gaz (25 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> Yes I did the test before the recent improvements in the GPS.
> 
> I know you have used dashware (nice piece of software) however, I'm having a problem with it. I have some Contour GPS data that I recorded in Tall Hd mode (960p) and I want to add a speed dial. It all works fine except when I try to save it in HD mode it squashes the image (stretched horizontally). Do you have any idea if I can save it as 960p in the correct aspect ration on Dashware?



I have the same problem  i don't think it can save as 960p

Just done a bit of research - http://dashware.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155
Lets register and badger them for it


----------



## Rezillo (25 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> Yes I did the test before the recent improvements in the GPS.
> 
> I know you have used dashware (nice piece of software) however, I'm having a problem with it. I have some Contour GPS data that I recorded in Tall Hd mode (960p) and I want to add a speed dial. It all works fine except when I try to save it in HD mode it squashes the image (stretched horizontally). Do you have any idea if I can save it as 960p in the correct aspect ration on Dashware?



Your best bet is to ask on the Dashware forum - they can be a bit slow to respond but usually help out in the end. 

You can edit the video profile xml files that control the final output. For example, I wanted options to resize videos that weren't there by default and the authors gave me instructions for this. They worked fine in v1.1.66 but give a vertically stretched image in the current 1.1.81, so there may be some issues generally with aspect ratio at the moment.

John


----------



## little_tiny_kev (26 May 2011)

got a quick question... Does anyone use their camera's simply to capture the scenic route on a weekend ride? or do you guys use them incase of accidents so you can prove who was responsible for the accident?


----------



## MrHappyCyclist (26 May 2011)

little_tiny_kev said:


> got a quick question... Does anyone use their camera's simply to capture the scenic route on a weekend ride? or do you guys use them incase of accidents so you can prove who was responsible for the accident?


Yes.


----------



## Rezillo (26 May 2011)

little_tiny_kev said:


> got a quick question... Does anyone use their camera's simply to capture the scenic route on a weekend ride? or do you guys use them incase of accidents so you can prove who was responsible for the accident?



Mine's primarily for recording the ride but that automatically requires me to have good quality video (which would also assist its use as evidence) and a long recording time, which ups the price.

The muvi-type cameras are great value for shortish commutes and for the price, the video quality is good, but if I was concerned about accident recording and regular day-in day-out use, I'd value reliability as well. On the other hand, you can buy 20 muvi looky-likeys for the price of a Gopro or Contour and my Contour has just failed!

John


----------



## G4WYZ (26 May 2011)

When I came to this section I had hoped there would be an article to help the cyclist on which camera to buy, the pro and cons. Not just I have x and y.



I brought my first camera over two years ago, after being frustrating submitting letters to the Police about dangerous drivers and the only response was did anyone else see the incident, that all changed with the camera.



I had initially looked at cameras which fitted on the helmet, but you needed a separate video recorder and there where wires,(they always tangle). Anyway about the same time CPC in Preston had an offer on the Oregon Scientific ATC3K it was at a good price so I brought one. The batteries, SD card where all contained in the same unit.



Although it’s marketed as a helmet cam, basically I thought it was too heavy for the helmet, although I attached the camera to the helmet it was heavy and uncomfortable, so the camera was mounted on the handlebars. 



Within the first week it paid for itself, as I had a 4x4 pickup miss me by inches, the driver had passed me close as possible, but moved out to the correct distance when passing a parked car, (I was using a sub-standard width cycle lane). I recognised the registration number from a previous incident, (doing the same stunt) I reported the incident to the Police and the response was “Do you want the driver to be prosecuted”, WOW.



There are draw backs with the handlebar mounted ones, i.e. you miss a lot, such as the drivers who squeezes pass you at pinch points (refuges) and its not good in low light ie ok in well lit roads. Anyway I used the Omega for two years and decided to invested in a lighter weight helmet cam which had good low light visibility, the MiniDVR 3 Bullet Camera which is based on the Sony HQ5 Bullet camera, supplied by Dog Cam Sport.



This works in extreme low light levels, the only drawback (during the dark winter commutes) is the rear number-lights tend to blur the figures out on the plate. Otherwise I ‘am very impressed.



One of my colleagues brought one of these £10 helmet cameras, the instructions where hit and miss and it’s not waterproofed, so you get what u pay for. I supposed its designed for the Californian Winter.





Michael Prescott.

CTC Right to Ride, Chorley and South Ribble.


----------



## magnatom (26 May 2011)

It might be worth checking out part 1 of my Four Helmet camera review, even if only to see a picture of me wearing 4 helmet cameras!


----------



## gaz (26 May 2011)

There are many pro's vs con's articles out there about helmet cameras. You probably bought it at the wrong time though, the amount of different cameras out there now is vast.


----------



## megamega (28 May 2011)

Like the pic Magnatom. I haven't posted on here for a while but i still record my commute each day. My helmet currently has the veho muvi with waterproof casing and also my new kodak playsport zx5, so although i don't look as bad as your pic, having 2 on the helmet still looks stupid lol. i have posted 2 videos recently, 1 showing a comparison of both those cams and one showing the zx5 with a fish eye lens on. now saying that the zx5 is waterproof, dustproof, and shockproof it suits the bike rides. It also has image stabilisation and has the ability to do full 1080P at 30fps but also 720P at 60fps. At less than 140 quid if you can mount it on your helmet its a good buy. here are my 2 vids.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9atFyfJdF6k

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7v1gdS9D1w&feature=related
for quality and sound i dont think its far off what you tested even better in my opinion on a couple of them. The zx5 was plagued with freezing but a new firmware has fixed that issue. It will also take 32gig class 10 cards. battery life is about 2.5 hours, has a screen so i can delete vids and also crop them on the fly. It can also do a lot more.


----------



## snailracer (28 May 2011)

benb said:


> I also like the idea of loop mode, where it records 10 mins to a buffer, but only saves it (and then continues to record to SD card) when you push a button on the remote.


The drawback with loop mode is that, if you get knocked off, you might be too incapacitated to push the save button and so your video evidence gets overwritten.


----------



## xxmimixx (29 May 2011)

Hi
been reading this thread with interest and can see the benefit of having a cam. However dont want to spend hundered of pounds for it. 
A quick google search bought up this camera http://www.retailgadgets.co.uk/Raider-Action-Helmet-Camera-Ten-Black.html which is a price I would be happy to pay. What do you think? Or can you recommend any others for this sort of price?
Thanks


----------



## gaz (29 May 2011)

xxmimixx said:


> Hi
> been reading this thread with interest and can see the benefit of having a cam. However dont want to spend hundered of pounds for it.
> A quick google search bought up this camera http://www.retailgad...-Ten-Black.html which is a price I would be happy to pay. What do you think? Or can you recommend any others for this sort of price?
> Thanks



See if you can find some clips which show it in action. Without that you have no idea what is going to be like.
You can probably get a Veho Muvi for around £50, which is used by a lot of people and gives good results.


----------



## cloggsy (30 May 2011)

If you're on a budget, look at the '#11 808 Cameras' on eBay...

These No. 11 cameras record in full 720p HD and the quality is superb for the £30 odd quid they cost...

Have a look at this review on YouTube...


----------



## magnatom (31 May 2011)

For anyone interested part 2 of the review is up. It contains night time video. Interesting results and probably not what you would expect....


----------



## BSRU (31 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> For anyone interested part 2 of the review is up. It contains night time video. Interesting results and probably not what you would expect....



It's amazing how bad three of them are even with lots of street lights, especially the most expensive one.

I know the Contour is helped in total darkness by using halogen lights but the other three look beyond help.


----------



## BSRU (31 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> For anyone interested part 2 of the review is up. It contains night time video. Interesting results and probably not what you would expect....



The POV.HD is not CCD it is 1/2.7” HD CMOS sensor, according their website.


----------



## MrHappyCyclist (31 May 2011)

I have been a bit puzzled by the HD resolutions quoted. I am using a 1920x1200 screen, but when I switch the 1080p videos to full screen (at 1080p setting) the image only fills about 66% of the screen width and 58% of the height, which suggests I'm still only seeing 720p. Does YouTube cut down the resolution, or does anyone know of another reason for this?


----------



## magnatom (31 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> The POV.HD is not CCD it is 1/2.7” HD CMOS sensor, according their website.



That's corrected. Not sure where I found the reference for it being CCD, it was obviously wrong!


----------



## magnatom (31 May 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> I have been a bit puzzled by the HD resolutions quoted. I am using a 1920x1200 screen, but when I switch the 1080p videos to full screen (at 1080p setting) the image only fills about 66% of the screen width and 58% of the height, which suggests I'm still only seeing 720p. Does YouTube cut down the resolution, or does anyone know of another reason for this?



I'm not sure why that is happening to you. It fills the whole width of my screen (1680x1050).


----------



## HLaB (31 May 2011)

little_tiny_kev said:


> got a quick question... Does anyone use their camera's simply to capture the scenic route on a weekend ride? or do you guys use them incase of accidents so you can prove who was responsible for the accident?



I tend to fit mine occasionally to capture some weekend rides but I doubt my low quality camera could even prove who was responsible for an accident and I rather not be involved in one anyway ;-)


----------



## HLaB (31 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> It might be worth checking out part 1 of my Four Helmet camera review, even if only to see a picture of me wearing 4 helmet cameras!



Its a good job you didn't test out the ATC HD GPS (or whatever its called, I prefer the term yellow brick and its probably more accurate ;-) ) your neck would have probably collapsed !


----------



## BSRU (31 May 2011)

little_tiny_kev said:


> got a quick question... Does anyone use their camera's simply to capture the scenic route on a weekend ride? or do you guys use them incase of accidents so you can prove who was responsible for the accident?



I'd say both, the problem with the scenic rides is the file size and the time it takes to render then upload to YouTube, one video I uploaded took two hours, even on a 16Meg link.


----------



## HLaB (31 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> I'd say both, the problem with the scenic rides is the file size and the time it takes to render then upload to YouTube, one video I uploaded took two hours, even on a 16Meg link.



For nostalgia I uploaded this vid (be warned its not the most exciting 22 mins); I chopped out a fair bit and it still took ages to upload even at the ATC5K crap quality settings.


----------



## HLaB (31 May 2011)

magnatom said:


> For anyone interested part 2 of the review is up. It contains night time video. Interesting results and probably not what you would expect....



Nice comparison, without having looked at the detailed text from the footage the Contour looks head an shoulders above the rest.

Edit do you still have the cameras ? it'd be good to see them side by side and have a few comments on their build etc, its a bit hard to tell when they are strapped to your head :-)


----------



## zizou (31 May 2011)

I have a gopro hd - i didnt get it just for cycling but for watersports too so obviously being waterproof (rather than just resistant) was important after video quality. Since i've got it i have found the variety of mounts to be useful - i have mounts that are suitable for helmets, for handlebars/seatposts etc, a chest strap, a suction cup for surf boards and a wrist strap for scuba... this variety is where the gopro is strongest against the competition for me, however if it is only for use mounted on a helmet then i reckon the contour hd will be a bit better, certainly more streamlined. Video quality on them both are really good.

Video quality for uploaded videos is hard to compare though - in terms of userbase and popularity then youtube is far and away the best, however the videos are pretty compressed there and something that looks excellent prior to upload can lose alot of quality once on the site even when viewing in HD - with a site like vimeo the streamed videos are virtually the same quality as what it looks prior to upload. 

I also have a muvi and while i found it pretty temperamental to use, the video quality was decent enough for the price and would be good enough for capturing incidents etc.


----------



## magnatom (31 May 2011)

HLaB said:


> Nice comparison, without having looked at the detailed text from the footage the Contour looks head an shoulders above the rest.
> 
> Edit do you still have the cameras ? it'd be good to see them side by side and have a few comments on their build etc, its a bit hard to tell when they are strapped to your head :-)



I don't still have them, except the Contour GPS which I bought. However, I will be adding a write up later this week (or possibly next week)


Dogcam have given me a Bullet HD Wide to test. This might be the answer to benb's search for a simple point and shoot camera. It's better than the standard Bullet HD and they have improved the button.


----------



## gaz (31 May 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> I have been a bit puzzled by the HD resolutions quoted. I am using a 1920x1200 screen, but when I switch the 1080p videos to full screen (at 1080p setting) the image only fills about 66% of the screen width and 58% of the height, which suggests I'm still only seeing 720p. Does YouTube cut down the resolution, or does anyone know of another reason for this?


Youtube does some strange stuff to it's uploaded videos. The 1080p and 720p don't actually refer to size but more to quality.



zizou said:


> I have a gopro hd - i didnt get it just for cycling but for watersports too so obviously being waterproof (rather than just resistant) was important after video quality. Since i've got it i have found the variety of mounts to be useful - i have mounts that are suitable for helmets, for handlebars/seatposts etc, a chest strap, a suction cup for surf boards and a wrist strap for scuba... this variety is where the gopro is strongest against the competition for me, however if it is only for use mounted on a helmet then i reckon the contour hd will be a bit better, certainly more streamlined. Video quality on them both are really good.
> 
> Video quality for uploaded videos is hard to compare though - in terms of userbase and popularity then youtube is far and away the best, however the videos are pretty compressed there and something that looks excellent prior to upload can lose alot of quality once on the site even when viewing in HD - with a site like vimeo the streamed videos are virtually the same quality as what it looks prior to upload.
> 
> I also have a muvi and while i found it pretty temperamental to use, the video quality was decent enough for the price and would be good enough for capturing incidents etc.



The Contour cameras can do pretty much anything a GoPro does, you need a waterproof case for use in water but the same is said about the GoPro. The only thing the Contour's can't do at present is chest mounts, 3d (theoretically possible) and replayed viewings without a tv or similar.


----------



## zizou (31 May 2011)

gaz said:


> Youtube does some strange stuff to it's uploaded videos. The 1080p and 720p don't actually refer to size but more to quality.
> 
> 
> 
> The Contour cameras can do pretty much anything a GoPro does, you need a waterproof case for use in water but the same is said about the GoPro. The only thing the Contour's can't do at present is chest mounts, 3d (theoretically possible) and replayed viewings without a tv or similar.



didnt mean it to sound like the contour couldnt do that, i meant if someone was choosing a helmet camera only to wear on a helmet (particularly a vented road / mtb helmet) then the contour is probably a better option than the gopro.


----------



## BentMikey (31 May 2011)

gaz said:


> Youtube does some strange stuff to it's uploaded videos. The 1080p and 720p don't actually refer to size but more to quality.
> 
> 
> 
> The Contour cameras can do pretty much anything a GoPro does, you need a waterproof case for use in water but the same is said about the GoPro. The only thing the Contour's can't do at present is chest mounts, 3d (theoretically possible) and replayed viewings without a tv or similar.



Also the battery bacpac yes? Whilst I'm less keen on the Gopro size and shape, its range of mounts and options is really rather excellent.


----------



## Origamist (31 May 2011)

Nice work, Mags. 

I'd rate the GoPro's night time ability as average to poor - possibly worse than all of those you've tested.


----------



## BentMikey (31 May 2011)

Yeah, it's not very good is it? But then none of the others are either, even the contour. Mags has the best night time footage from a contour I've yet seen on youtube, most of the other contour users aren't showing nearly that quality. Is it a new camera/new firmware, or something else?


----------



## BSRU (31 May 2011)

BentMikey said:


> Yeah, it's not very good is it? But then none of the others are either, even the contour. Mags has the best night time footage from a contour I've yet seen on youtube, most of the other contour users aren't showing nearly that quality. Is it a new camera/new firmware, or something else?



I noticed with my Contour that the street lights make a huge difference, the quantity and type are important.


----------



## Origamist (31 May 2011)

BentMikey said:


> Yeah, it's not very good is it? But then none of the others are either, even the contour. Mags has the best night time footage from a contour I've yet seen on youtube, most of the other contour users aren't showing nearly that quality. Is it a new camera/new firmware, or something else?



There was new firmware for the GPS model a couple of weeks ago - it included image quality tweaking.

I've always thought that the Contour handles night time filming better than the GoPro. I mainly put that down to the ability to select the appropriate (night) light level.


----------



## BentMikey (31 May 2011)

Well, yes, a tiny little bit better, but Mags video is the first I've seen that shows such a large difference.


----------



## magnatom (31 May 2011)

Ok you caught me out, I enhanced it....

Seriously though, I just filmed it and posted it like all of the others. It was actually before the recent firmware upgrade. Mikey, is the footage you've seen from a GPS model? They do apparently use some different hardware, so it could be that.

In part 3 I'll be discussing all of this.


----------



## gaz (31 May 2011)

We all know that CMOS sensors are not great in the dark. 
I suspect that we all experience different quality issues due to where we mount them, the light around us and the lights we use.

I must say, I am dyeing to get my hands on a contour+ and have a play with it.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jun 2011)

Gaz, if you want to borrow my GoPro to compare to the Contour (particularly for night comparisons, let me know).


----------



## magnatom (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> We all know that CMOS sensors are not great in the dark.
> I suspect that we all experience different quality issues due to where we mount them, the light around us and the lights we use.
> 
> I must say, I am dyeing to get my hands on a contour+ and have a play with it.



Mind you, in my test, everything was equal. They were all tested in the same light and conditions. Yes there were very slight variations in the mounting position, but not enough to make a significant difference.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> I must say, I am dyeing to get my hands on a contour+ and have a play with it.



I didn't know they had a new cam coming out. It looks good. Hopefully they'll have learnt from the myriad bugs on the GPS version and it'll be a step up. After seeing the results of HD POV (and its steeper price), I'm leaning towards waiting for the Contour + now, however, I'm going to hold fire until I can see some reviews.


----------



## gaz (1 Jun 2011)

Origamist said:


> I didn't know they had a new cam coming out. It looks good. Hopefully they'll have learnt from the myriad bugs on the GPS version and it'll be a step up. After seeing the results of HD POV (and its steeper price), I'm leaning towards waiting for the Contour + now, however, I'm going to hold fire until I can see some reviews.



There where also issues with the Contour1080p when it first came out.
I'm not sure contour is doing the best they could do with there testing of new products. but they have good support and do seem to fix things eventually.

As you say, wait, watch and read what other people are saying.

Only downside I see to the contour+ is the fact that 1080p is still running at a smaller fov (125degrees this time) where as 960p and 720p are at the 170degrees.
I don't think that is the case with the gopro or drift cameras.


----------



## Origamist (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> There where also issues with the Contour1080p when it first came out.
> I'm not sure contour is doing the best they could do with there testing of new products. but they have good support and do seem to fix things eventually.
> 
> As you say, wait, watch and read what other people are saying.
> ...



The GoPro is 127º wide angle at 1080 as is the Drift Stealth. 

Contour do seem to be improving the GPS model with firmware, but there's still quite a bit of discontent on the Contour forum (as it has a better processor than the 1080 model). GoPro also made promises that it took a long time to put into reality.


----------



## BSRU (1 Jun 2011)

There's no lasers on the Contour+, I would have preferred a camera similar to the 1080p but with a better CMOS sensor and new CPU.
I don't want a GPS camera, the novelty would last only one ride, I want better image quality and more things to adjust/play with. Some form of optical zoom would be great.
At $499 I do not think it has enough to make it a worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## gaz (1 Jun 2011)

A massive bonus from gps is having proof how fast you where going. Having been in a collision and having the driver suggest I was travelling much faster than I was. I could easily prove with the video and gps data that my speed was sensible and much less than suggested.


----------



## BentMikey (1 Jun 2011)

In fairness the frames on the video will do a good job of that too, and the GPS data might be a little delayed in accuracy.


----------



## BSRU (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> A massive bonus from gps is having proof how fast you where going. Having been in a collision and having the driver suggest I was travelling much faster than I was. I could easily prove with the video and gps data that my speed was sensible and much less than suggested.



I thought you had a Garmin for GPS speed, like BentMikey stated, at 30 fames per second it can be straight forward to calculate speed if really required.
Since GPS chips are dirt cheap these days, the mark up by Contour is not justified and I would rather the camera CPU used as much processing power as possible on the image processing.
The best improvement on the Contour+ is the ability to use an external microphone and it should have better video image quality. If it's on sale for $499 in the US, it means it will probably be on sale here for a similar number but in pounds and not dollars, making about twice the price of the 1080p. Contour have left themselves open to another company introducing a higher resolution camera and cheaper price.


----------



## BentMikey (1 Jun 2011)

That's a big bonus on the VIO - sound quality is excellent, although as with any mic you need to wind protect it if you want to avoid loud wind noise.


----------



## BentMikey (1 Jun 2011)

Oh, I meant to add that the GoPro support/speed might not be that awesome either - they took ages and ages from announcing the LCD and battery bacpacs to actually releasing them here in the UK.


----------



## magnatom (1 Jun 2011)

I like the GPS. It makes it simple with some extra software (Dashware) to put up a speedo. Yes you can get a rough figure from frame measurements (although if your head is moving at the same time, then it makes it very inaccurate), but the GPS figures are harder to argue against.

As for sound, Mike, I do a few sound tests on the day time videos. Again I think the Contour was the winner. The GPS mic position copes very well with wind coming towards you, and okish with crosswind.


----------



## gaz (1 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> I thought you had a Garmin for GPS speed, like BentMikey stated, at 30 fames per second it can be straight forward to calculate speed if really required.
> Since GPS chips are dirt cheap these days, the mark up by Contour is not justified and I would rather the camera CPU used as much processing power as possible on the image processing.
> The best improvement on the Contour+ is the ability to use an external microphone and it should have better video image quality. If it's on sale for $499 in the US, it means it will probably be on sale here for a similar number but in pounds and not dollars, making about twice the price of the 1080p. Contour have left themselves open to another company introducing a higher resolution camera and cheaper price.



I do have a garmin, i don't have the contourGPS.
It is of course easy enough to work out speed from the frame rate, but a pain in the arse compared to taking it out of an XML file.
If i can get my arse into gear and fix my speed and cadence sensor, then my garmin will actually read the speed off my wheel rather than from GPS point to point. Although the accuracy on this is determined by how well i measure the circumference of the wheel.




BentMikey said:


> That's a big bonus on the VIO - sound quality is excellent, although as with any mic you need to wind protect it if you want to avoid loud wind noise.


That is what the VIO has had over the gopro, contour etc. is that you can use an external mic of very good quality and it makes for good viewing.

The microphone might be the downside to the contour+ as the internal one is being moved to the front slanty bit, where as at present it is underneath the main body if you stand it up right.


----------



## mummra (1 Jun 2011)

Origamist said:


> Contour do seem to be improving the GPS model with firmware, but there's still quite a bit of discontent on the Contour forum



I'll second this. I've had quite a few issues with the GPS and their firmware does seem to be getting better but it's still not right yet.
The main issue is the camera hanging after powering on. This means I've got to pull the battery to reset the device so unless I stand around waiting after resetting it I don't have a GPS lock before I set off.


----------



## gaz (1 Jun 2011)

Point of view cameras have done a comparison of contour+ with contour GPS
[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFu8-Ad74I[/media]


----------



## magnatom (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> The microphone might be the downside to the contour+ as the internal one is being moved to the front slanty bit, where as at present it is underneath the main body if you stand it up right.



The mic is at the front on the GPS under the lens. It seems to work very well.


----------



## Bollo (1 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> The mic is at the front on the GPS under the lens. It seems to work very well.



Good response at high frequencies?


----------



## gaz (1 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> The mic is at the front on the GPS under the lens. It seems to work very well.


----------



## Rezillo (1 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> Point of view cameras have done a comparison of contour+ with contour GPS



Looking at the GPS footage, that seems to be pre-version 1.15 firmware and even then, mine looked better than that. Contour+ looks nice but I would be interested to see 720p footage for it - the 170 degree fov risks some serious fisheye unless they've countered it in the camera processing.

While my GPS camera is returned for replacement, I've a ContourHD 1080p camera that was £166 new from Amazon. It's an interesting contrast to the GPS. The 720p footage is better than the GPS currently and 1080p is on a par with the GPS (with 1.15 firmware). If the colour balance for the GPS is tweaked as promised, it will be better. The ContourHD 1080p is pretty good value - its only downside is that it is quite slow to respond to changing brightness conditions and you can see it stepping up and down in variable light.

I've been really hacked off with the GPS camera - this will be my second replacement - but Contour's support is superb and they are gradually working their way to a good product, one that was really a beta imho when released.

John


----------



## BSRU (2 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> While my GPS camera is returned for replacement, I've a ContourHD 1080p camera that was £166 new from Amazon. It's an interesting contrast to the GPS. The 720p footage is better than the GPS currently and 1080p is on a par with the GPS (with 1.15 firmware). If the colour balance for the GPS is tweaked as promised, it will be better. The ContourHD 1080p is pretty good value - its only downside is that it is quite slow to respond to changing brightness conditions and you can see it stepping up and down in variable light.



There is variation within the 1080p camera's, my original 1080p, over a year old, is better than my new one which I bought a few months ago. There are slight differences such as LED light colour and the beep sound, but the main thing is my original is better with changing light conditions or surfaces.


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

I'm actually having a lot of problems with the GPS a the moment. Freeze ups, battery charge problems, etc. I've written to contour here. If this doesn't get solved soon, I'm close to dumping it.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm actually having a lot of problems with the GPS a the moment. Freeze ups, battery charge problems, etc. I've written to contour here. If this doesn't get solved soon, I'm close to dumping it.



Most of this camera's lock-up and general recording glitch problems (not all) seem to be card-derived. It just seems to be fussy about what cards it works with, particularly 'no name' brands at 16 and 32gb. To make things worse, all cards must be formatted in the camera first, not by Windows or as supplied, and the method for doing this is not in the supplied manual.

Incompatible or Windows-formatted cards can cause it to either lock up with all lights on, have the record light stay on when off or produce truncated or unreadable files.

To be fair to Contour, it's clear that Ebay-derived cards are behind some of the Contour forum complaints - not only cards reporting fake sizes but ones with real sizes but fake big brand names and speeds. 

If you're getting problems, first try the 2gb card supplied by Contour with the camera, and re-format it in the unit. If the lock-ups continue, then it is definitely something else responsible. 

Not all lock-ups are due to the card used - there do seem to be hardware differences that may account for end users experience not being those of the firmware developers, and some firmware revisions introduce glitches that weren't there before. The most reliable firmware is 1.09 but this has a long gps lock time, no bluetooth functionality and, compared to version 1.15, poor image quality.

To give an idea of what is possible, I've continuously recorded 75 mile and 100 mile rides on one 32gb card using a home-made cable and external battery pack with no problems at all.

John


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

I've got Kingston 16Gb card from a reputable dealer (I've been stung before) and I didn't have any major problems until after 1.15. Mind you the fact that it is fussy about cards is in itself a problem. You don't hear of issues like this (at least to the same extent with other cameras.

I certainly did follow the correct procedure in formatting the card. If the 2Gb card is all that would work, then I'd be gubbed anyway. My commute uses more than that. (I know your not saying that is all that works!). 

Again if there are hardware difference across the contour GPS then that too is pretty poor. I understand that there can be hardware upgrades over time. However, if some have serious problems that should be sorted out with a recall. 

Anyway, I'm hanging in there a little longer, to see if it can be resolved. 

Mind you, it's sold as a camera that is plug and play. At the moment, it certainly isn't.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm actually having a lot of problems with the GPS a the moment. Freeze ups, battery charge problems, etc. I've written to contour here. If this doesn't get solved soon, I'm close to dumping it.





Out of interest, what would your second choice be?


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

Origamist said:


> Out of interest, what would your second choice be?



I'm not sure. Drift was too big and bulky for me. POV was disapointing for the cost, especially at night, and the DogCam had too narrow a field of view. 

I am testing the DogCam HD wide, which is better than the standard version. It's a bit dearer though and not quite up to the others in terms of resolution.

I'm a bit stuck at the moment. The Contour is the best camera IMO when it works.


----------



## Origamist (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm not sure. Drift was too big and bulky for me. POV was disapointing for the cost, especially at night, and the DogCam had too narrow a field of view.
> 
> I am testing the DogCam HD wide, which is better than the standard version. It's a bit dearer though and not quite up to the others in terms of resolution.
> 
> I'm a bit stuck at the moment. The Contour is the best camera IMO when it works.



I'm thinking about the DC HD wide as a rear cam - post up the results when you've finished the test!


----------



## BentMikey (3 Jun 2011)

Shame Mags, sorry to hear about your troubles.


----------



## gaz (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm a bit stuck at the moment. The Contour is the best camera IMO when it works.


How about the contourhd 1080p camera. I've not had any issues with mine and it must be around 8months old.

All issues it did have seem to be ironed out.


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> How about the contourhd 1080p camera. I've not had any issues with mine and it must be around 8months old.
> 
> All issues it did have seem to be ironed out.



The problem is I like the night time capability. I suspect it is better on the GPS than on the HD. It'd be interesting to compare that.


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

Origamist said:


> I'm thinking about the DC HD wide as a rear cam - post up the results when you've finished the test!



I think it would be good as a rear cam. I have some slight concerns over it possibly switching itself off occasionally. Might be I haven't fully charged so I'm checking that. If that's ok I'd want one myself for that!


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

BentMikey said:


> Shame Mags, sorry to hear about your troubles.



Och, in the grand scheme of things it's not a biggie, but it would be nice to get it sorted. I'd have had some fabulous footage from this mornings commute. Miles of stationary traffic in HD! I have some on my DC HD which I'll post at some point. There is some signing in it. Luckily I had the waterproof cover on that muffles the sound!


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I certainly did follow the correct procedure in formatting the card. If the 2Gb card is all that would work, then I'd be gubbed anyway. My commute uses more than that. (I know your not saying that is all that works!)



The 2gb card is more or less guaranteed to work by Contour so it is a useful test, nothing more. If it works with the 2gb card but not with your own then chances are you need to try another card. I've one 16gb card class 4 that locks up with it, and one 16gb pny brand class 2 that is fine.

John


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> The 2gb card is more or less guaranteed to work by Contour so it is a useful test, nothing more. If it works with the 2gb card but not with your own then chances are you need to try another card. I've one 16gb card class 4 that locks up with it, and one 16gb pny brand class 2 that is fine.
> 
> John



 I realised that was what you were saying, I'm just grumpy that it is so pernickity. It should, if designed correctly be able to cope with all reasonable, within spec cards. It should certainly be able to cope with the Kingston card.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I realised that was what you were saying, I'm just grumpy that it is so pernickity. It should, if designed correctly be able to cope with all reasonable, within spec cards. It should certainly be able to cope with the Kingston card.



I agree - at the very least there should be a list of tested and working cards. I think that integrating gps data into the video text track is causing some write problems that are unique to this camera. Having said that, the non-gps version can also be picky about cards!

John


----------



## gaz (3 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> I agree - at the very least there should be a list of tested and working cards. I think that integrating gps data into the video text track is causing some write problems that are unique to this camera. Having said that, the non-gps version can also be picky about cards!
> 
> John



Is there not on the contour forums? I know there was 2 years ago when i was looking for a new card for my 720p version.


----------



## mummra (3 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I'm actually having a lot of problems with the GPS a the moment. Freeze ups, battery charge problems, etc. I've written to contour here. If this doesn't get solved soon, I'm close to dumping it.



I've just added my frustrations to your posting on the Contour forum.
I wish I could narrow it down to a specific thing I was doing but sometimes it works sometime it locks up.



Rezillo said:


> Most of this camera's lock-up and general recording glitch problems (not all) seem to be card-derived.



I've got a Kingston 16GB card purchased from Amazon so hopefully they aren't ripping off their customers (Amazon I mean )
The 2GB card isn't big enough for my extended summer commute but Contour are promoting the camera as accepting upto 32GB cards. Their support do say that a class 2 (from what I remember) card should work fine. I woud really hope that the camera wouldn't have any issues with cards from a well known brand such as Kingston.

I'm kinda hoping that it is just a firmware issue and they can fix it.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jun 2011)

mummra said:


> I've got a Kingston 16GB card purchased from Amazon so hopefully they aren't ripping off their customers (Amazon I mean )



It's not necessarily just a fake versus real issue - it seems some size/brand/speed combinations don't work consistently. If you can borrow a card from a mate it's worth trying to see if it behaves differently.

There must be some hardware differences, though. Before my camera failed (the format switch broke off), the beta firmware I was testing simply didn't record at all on my 32gb card but was ok with a 16gb one. The new replacement camera (it arrived in less than three days from Seattle!!) works fine with the same 32 gb card.

I have to say that Contour's support is excellent and there seems to be a genuine commitment to improve issues with the gps version.

John


----------



## mummra (3 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> It's not necessarily just a fake versus real issue - it seems some size/brand/speed combinations don't work consistently. If you can borrow a card from a mate it's worth trying to see if it behaves differently.
> 
> John



I've tried 2 different cards as I tried an 8GB card that is now in my phone.
Some issues.

I think I'm going to have to try the 2GB card for a quick ride this afternoon to see if I have any issues.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jun 2011)

mummra said:


> I've tried 2 different cards as I tried an 8GB card that is now in my phone.
> Some issues.
> 
> I think I'm going to have to try the 2GB card for a quick ride this afternoon to see if I have any issues.



This utility is good not only for revealing fake capacity cards but giving an indication of speed as well:

http://www.heise.de/software/download/h2testw/50539 (it has an English option).

Remember to delete the test file after use.

I've found, though, that in terms of absolute speed, a lot depends on the card reader you use. Provided you use the same one for testing different cards, though, it does provide some comparison information and it's noticeable that the couple of problem cards I have test lower than the ones that work ok and that Contour's stock 2gb cards are pretty fast. It's not that straightforward or consistent as being a speed issue, unfortunately.

John


----------



## mummra (3 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> This utility is good not only for revealing fake capacity cards but giving an indication of speed as well:
> 
> http://www.heise.de/...d/h2testw/50539 (it has an English option).
> 
> ...



I saw a posting on Contour's forum about 30 minutes ago about this and am currently doing it already on the 16GB card.


----------



## benb (4 Jun 2011)

snailracer said:


> The drawback with loop mode is that, if you get knocked off, you might be too incapacitated to push the save button and so your video evidence gets overwritten.



I hadn't even thought of that!
Convinced me in one post - loop mode is off the list.

Now, if you could flag a point in the video with the press of a button, and have the software on the PC jump to that point ...


----------



## gaz (4 Jun 2011)

benb said:


> I hadn't even thought of that!
> Convinced me in one post - loop mode is off the list.
> 
> Now, if you could flag a point in the video with the press of a button, and have the software on the PC jump to that point ...



I just stop recording and then start again at a potential point of interest, then when i get plug the camera into the computer I can just easily look at the clips and edit stuff quickly.


----------



## Rezillo (5 Jun 2011)

A small clip of 1080p footage this morning from the Contour GPS, shot through a grubby windscreen. It is 28mb nevertheless! 

If you have the Quicktime plugin, your browser may attempt to play it but it looks far better downloaded and played separately.

Sample 1080p

Different sample from same trip but this time in 720p:

Unhappy cyclist

John


----------



## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2011)

Contour HD, very good, bit weighty on side of helmet but worth it. Laser alignment makes you look like the Borg  
Two issues though:

1) Helmet mount pin too short, has tendency to come loose. Best to mount camera on top of head horizontally and turn lens 90 degrees. Wrap some sticky tape around end of pin to keep it stuck in its hole.

2) Full 1080p HD is stunning, just make sure that you have enough RAM in your PC to edit videos!. Good in lower 720p.

The 'Storyteller' software is a bit naff, use only for changing camera settings. Get the fast charger too - USB takes up to 4 hours!. Your PC/Laptop will read camera via USB like a hard drive, so downloading videos is easy. Beware file sizes - a 30 min video will take up to 20 mins to download, depending on the speed of your PC.

Videos are in Quicktime .mov format, so you will need software capable of editing these files. Also, can take up to 16gB card but your PC card reader may not read this size. However, USB is easy.

Other than that, very good camera. Hopefully will get smaller as technology improves;

http://www.youtube.c...ainNemo1701#p/u


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Contour HD, very good, bit weighty on side of helmet but worth it. Laser alignment makes you look like the Borg
> Two issues though:
> 
> 1) Helmet mount pin too short, has tendency to come loose. Best to mount camera on top of head horizontally and turn lens 90 degrees. Wrap some sticky tape around end of pin to keep it stuck in its hole.
> ...



My only criticism of the Contour is its frankly terrible low light performance. It's basically just a black screen! I don't bother wearing it in the dark, there's no point.


----------



## BSRU (9 Jun 2011)

benb said:


> My only criticism of the Contour is its frankly terrible low light performance. It's basically just a black screen! I don't bother wearing it in the dark, there's no point.



Unfortunately Magnatom's test of four helmet camera's showed the Contour was the best. I used my Contour throughout the dark nights, making sure all the settings were set for night time use.

A CCD camera is best at night but HD quality CCD camera's are over £2000 and heavy in comparison plus CCD camera's tend suffer from a serious headlight flare problem.


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> Unfortunately Magnatom's test of four helmet camera's showed the Contour was the best. I used my Contour throughout the dark nights, making sure all the settings were set for night time use.
> 
> A CCD camera is best at night but HD quality CCD camera's are over £2000 and heavy in comparison plus CCD camera's tend suffer from a serious headlight flare problem.



My trouble was that my morning journey was in the light, and my evening one in the dark.
So if I upped my exposure compensation to max the morning one would be white with overexposure (and the night ones were still no good).

That's part of the reason why I was thinking of giving the Mini DVR III a go. Although the video quality is poorer than the Contour, the low light ought to be much better. Also the camera part is smaller and lighter, although you have the problem of an external recorder.


----------



## BSRU (9 Jun 2011)

benb said:


> My trouble was that my morning journey was in the light, and my evening one in the dark.
> So if I upped my exposure compensation to max the morning one would be white with overexposure (and the night ones were still no good).
> 
> That's part of the reason why I was thinking of giving the Mini DVR III a go. Although the video quality is poorer than the Contour, the low light ought to be much better. Also the camera part is smaller and lighter, although you have the problem of an external recorder.



I can change my settings at work, you also need to change the metering setting. Halogen lights can help CMOS camera's but they are very heavy compared to LED lights. I have a Mini DVR II and it is good especially in low light conditions but the image quality doesn't look good compared to a Contour.


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> I can change my settings at work, you also need to change the metering setting. Halogen lights can help CMOS camera's but they are very heavy compared to LED lights. I have a Mini DVR II and it is good especially in low light conditions but the image quality doesn't look good compared to a Contour.



Maybe get a Mini DVR for winter, and keep the contour for summer.
Is that extravagant?


----------



## Rezillo (9 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> I can change my settings at work, you also need to change the metering setting. Halogen lights can help CMOS camera's but they are very heavy compared to LED lights. I have a Mini DVR II and it is good especially in low light conditions but the image quality doesn't look good compared to a Contour.



There is one relevant advantage of the GPS versus the 1080p version and that is that the slider switch settings are completely independent of each other in the GPS camera, so you can configure one to be a night setting and one for day. 

The 1080p also has a slider switch for two groups of settings. You can change the resolution of each setting but you are stuck with the same brightness and contrast settings for both of them.

John


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> There is one relevant advantage of the GPS versus the 1080p version and that is that the slider switch settings are completely independent of each other in the GPS camera, so you can configure one to be a night setting and one for day.
> 
> The 1080p also has a slider switch for two groups of settings. You can change the resolution of each setting but you are stuck with the same brightness and contrast settings for both of them.
> 
> John



Now this I like.
Maybe get a Contour+ as a present to myself for being so great.


----------



## BSRU (9 Jun 2011)

Rezillo said:


> There is one relevant advantage of the GPS versus the 1080p version and that is that the slider switch settings are completely independent of each other in the GPS camera, so you can configure one to be a night setting and one for day.
> 
> The 1080p also has a slider switch for two groups of settings. You can change the resolution of each setting but you are stuck with the same brightness and contrast settings for both of them.
> 
> John



I knew about that feature but since when I arrive at work I connect my contour to my pc to recharge it, changing the settings is not a problem.


----------



## gaz (9 Jun 2011)

benb said:


> Now this I like.
> Maybe get a Contour+ as a present to myself for being so great.



Wait a while for things to settle down before you buy one. As with the 1080p and the GPS versions, there has always been teething problems with the contours as they are first released. But history shows they are eventually fixed.


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> I knew about that feature but since when I arrive at work I connect my contour to my pc to recharge it, changing the settings is not a problem.



Changing the settings at work, then again when you get home ready for the next day is a massive hassle.


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> Wait a while for things to settle down before you buy one. As with the 1080p and the GPS versions, there has always been teething problems with the contours as they are first released. But history shows they are eventually fixed.



Yes, quite. It's barely out.


----------



## gaz (9 Jun 2011)

benb said:


> Changing the settings at work, then again when you get home ready for the next day is a massive hassle.



Not really, takes less than a min for me to do 2 cameras.


----------



## benb (9 Jun 2011)

gaz said:


> Not really, takes less than a min for me to do 2 cameras.



Remembering to do it.
It would wind me up no end.


----------



## mad despot (10 Jun 2011)

goo_mason said:


> A word of warning about that type of camera from 7dayshop; I had one and whilst the results were really impressive, I found that after a couple of months the battery no longer held much of a charge and the recordings lasted no more than a couple of minutes.
> 
> It's been sitting unused now since last summer after too many cut-off recordings
> 
> Thinking about a Contour HD if I ever manage to find out whether I'm going to still be in a job by the end of the summer....



This is true, but there is a workaround:

http://www.chucklohr.com/808/MD80/

The parts are available from Maplin, but it does mean that you need somewhere to store the external battery.


----------



## magnatom (29 Jun 2011)

I've now published my review of the Dogcam Bullet HD Wide. It's not bacd for £145 (or £130.50 if you use the code 'magnatom' at checkout) 


And no, I don't get any commission unfortunately!


----------



## BSRU (29 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> I've now published my review of the Dogcam Bullet HD Wide. It's not bacd for £145 (or £130.50 if you use the code 'magnatom' at checkout)
> 
> 
> And no, I don't get any commission unfortunately!



Shame cannot test it against the Poseiden HD720, for £66 it's an option for the more price conscious.


----------



## magnatom (29 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> Shame cannot test it against the Poseiden HD720, for £66 it's an option for the more price conscious.



If I could get a hold of one for testing, I'd be happy to do a side by side comparison. Who sells it?


----------



## BSRU (29 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> If I could get a hold of one for testing, I'd be happy to do a side by side comparison. Who sells it?



Just Chinese EBay retailers as far as I remember, although there might have been a couple of UK internet shops but for over 100 quid.


----------



## magnatom (30 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> Just Chinese EBay retailers as far as I remember, although there might have been a couple of UK internet shops but for over 100 quid.



Quick search suggests that filming in dark might be poor. Haven't tested the Wide in dark, but it's little brother did surprisingly well.


----------



## BSRU (30 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> Quick search suggests that filming in dark might be poor. Haven't tested the Wide in dark, but it's little brother did surprisingly well.



It will be a while before I get the chance to try it in the dark, not expecting great things from it but maybe I be surprised.


----------



## magnatom (30 Jun 2011)

BSRU said:


> It will be a while before I get the chance to try it in the dark, not expecting great things from it but maybe I be surprised.



Ah. Didn't realise that you actually had one. You could send it to me for testing! ;-)

It'll be interesting to see the footage, jut make sure you test it in low light conditions.


----------



## BSRU (30 Jun 2011)

magnatom said:


> Ah. Didn't realise that you actually had one. You could send it to me for testing! ;-)
> 
> It'll be interesting to see the footage, jut make sure you test it in low light conditions.



I took a punt on buying one to use as a rear camera for my road bike, moving the rear camera from my hybrid is a real pain and being a lazy git I thought I try this camera, knowing the picture quality does not have to be as good on the rear camera.

There's a couple of test video's on my YouTube channel, if it's cloudy one weekend evening I should be able to try it out in poor lighting. Also I will have some new uploads this week when I used the road bike to commute to work and some drivers misbehaved.


----------



## Rezillo (30 Jun 2011)

Update on the ContourGPS.

The new 1.16 firmware is very good. I used a beta version on holiday extensively and had no lockups, although whether this was down to using a new Kingston Class 4 32gb card or not, I don't know.

The picture quality is extremely good and a vast improvement on earlier versions - 1080p is better than my Panasonic HD camcorder. There's a link below to a few seconds of original (27mb) 720p 60fps video.

Video link

John


----------



## twowheelsgood (1 Jul 2011)

> The picture quality is extremely good and a vast improvement on earlier versions - 1080p is better than my Panasonic HD camcorder. There's a link below to a few seconds of original (27mb) 720p 60fps video.



Contour GPS video looks ok, but the real resolution doesnt look all that special. Look at the "P" parking sign for example. I'd suggest putting that image quality into a 1920x1080 file is merely a waste of storage space, I'd be very surprised if there were more detail than a good SD camera.

If its really better than your Panasonic HD camera, then Id suggest it was faulty. I have the Panasonic SD60, a fairly cheap mid-range camcorder and that is not even close, especially given the very favourable light conditions in that clip.


----------



## Jezston (1 Jul 2011)

Rezillo said:


> Update on the ContourGPS.
> 
> The new 1.16 firmware is very good. I used a beta version on holiday extensively and had no lockups, although whether this was down to using a new Kingston Class 4 32gb card or not, I don't know.
> 
> ...



You haven't recompressed that at all?

Just that looks no better than the upscaled SD footage from cheaper cameras I've seen, but at 60fps. Does running it at 60 lower the image quality?


----------



## Jezston (1 Jul 2011)

I'm getting seriously tempted now to buy a camera myself - got some money coming in soon and I need to make some expenses. As a sound designer I think I can legitimise buying such a camera as a business expense! I almost certainly will use one for sound recording.

Just a shame there doesn't appear to be any that take an external mic source other than that really expensive two-part cam. Which I wouldn't mind having!

Currently erring towards the Poseidon as the quality is seriously impressive for the price. Anyone got any low light footage yet? Only thing I saw before was some taken from inside a car which wasn't really relevant.


----------



## BSRU (1 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> I'm getting seriously tempted now to buy a camera myself - got some money coming in soon and I need to make some expenses. As a sound designer I think I can legitimise buying such a camera as a business expense! I almost certainly will use one for sound recording.
> 
> Just a shame there doesn't appear to be any that take an external mic source other than that really expensive two-part cam. Which I wouldn't mind having!
> 
> Currently erring towards the Poseidon as the quality is seriously impressive for the price. Anyone got any low light footage yet? Only thing I saw before was some taken from inside a car which wasn't really relevant.



The newer Contours, have an external mic connection, in fact the newer Contours have bluetooth enable you to see the video image in real time on a smart phone with the appropriate app.

I've got a Poseiden but have not had the opportunity to try it out in low light conditions. I watched the in car night video, unfortunately car halogen headlights help CMOS camera's alot, it's just the sort of artificial light source they need.


----------



## BentMikey (1 Jul 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> Contour GPS video looks ok, but the real resolution doesnt look all that special. Look at the "P" parking sign for example. I'd suggest putting that image quality into a 1920x1080 file is merely a waste of storage space, I'd be very surprised if there were more detail than a good SD camera.
> 
> If its really better than your Panasonic HD camera, then Id suggest it was faulty. I have the Panasonic SD60, a fairly cheap mid-range camcorder and that is not even close, especially given the very favourable light conditions in that clip.




That's a 720p file, not a 1080p. Most of the HD helmet cameras will do 60fps at 720p, which is quite useful if you want to do slomo.


----------



## benb (1 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> I'm getting seriously tempted now to buy a camera myself - got some money coming in soon and I need to make some expenses. As a sound designer I think I can legitimise buying such a camera as a business expense! I almost certainly will use one for sound recording.
> 
> Just a shame there doesn't appear to be any that take an external mic source other than that really expensive two-part cam. Which I wouldn't mind having!
> 
> Currently erring towards the Poseidon as the quality is seriously impressive for the price. Anyone got any low light footage yet? Only thing I saw before was some taken from inside a car which wasn't really relevant.



I think the Contour+ has an external mic socket.


----------



## Jezston (1 Jul 2011)

benb said:


> I think the Contour+ has an external mic socket.



Oooh!

[looks it up]

Ah.

£500! Same price as the Vio POV (the one I referred to earlier)


----------



## twowheelsgood (1 Jul 2011)

OK, I understand it was 720p, but I think there is far too much emphasis on the HD aspect in nearly all the samples shown, not just yours. I'm pretty used to seeing the SD output of the 3-CCD Panasonic consumer-level camcorders from about 8 years ago, and I still don't think there is anything approaching the real resolution advertised. 

It's not very surprising because getting small sensors (although full marks for the trend of bigger 1/2" or thereabouts sensors lately) and low-cost optics to give you that sort of detail is pretty difficult, the electronics doing the HD is the easy bit, but a lot of the "detail" being recorded is just noise due to the fuzzy image presented to the sensor.

You can easily test it, re-size the video using a high quality scaler (Lanczos or similar) to a lossless file and then watch it on a big screen back to back with the original. It think you are getting about PAL resolution. You may even prefer the lower-res version due to sharpening and de-noising effects of the resize.


----------



## BSRU (1 Jul 2011)

twowheelsgood said:


> OK, I understand it was 720p, but I think there is far too much emphasis on the HD aspect in nearly all the samples shown, not just yours. I'm pretty used to seeing the SD output of the 3-CCD Panasonic consumer-level camcorders from about 8 years ago, and I still don't think there is anything approaching the real resolution advertised.
> 
> It's not very surprising because getting small sensors (although full marks for the trend of bigger 1/2" or thereabouts sensors lately) and low-cost optics to give you that sort of detail is pretty difficult, the electronics doing the HD is the easy bit, but a lot of the "detail" being recorded is just noise due to the fuzzy image presented to the sensor.
> 
> You can easily test it, re-size the video using a high quality scaler (Lanczos or similar) to a lossless file and then watch it on a big screen back to back with the original. It think you are getting about PAL resolution. You may even prefer the lower-res version due to sharpening and de-noising effects of the resize.



I can see a massive difference between the output produced by my Contour and the what is produced by my mid priced JVC camcorder, even though they have the same resolution sensor. The JVC has almost twice the bit rate of the Contour, watching the JVC on a high def. monitor it is just so much sharper and I can zoom in alot further before pixelation becomes a problem.


----------



## Rezillo (1 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> You haven't recompressed that at all?
> 
> Just that looks no better than the upscaled SD footage from cheaper cameras I've seen, but at 60fps. Does running it at 60 lower the image quality?



I think you've misunderstood me. The 1080p Contour footage is better than the 1080p footage of my (new) Panasonic camcorder (HTC-TM40). 

The example posted is 720p, because 1080p on a bike handlebar mount suffers from rolling shutter. In 720p mode the Contour has a 135 degreee fov - this mean focus at the extreme edge and right sides is poor. 

This is not normally a problem as in motion the edges go to a blur anyway but it is evident if you freeze the video. In 1080p, the focus is consistent across, if I remember correctly, a 110 degree fov. 60fps does also slightly lower the quality from 30fps.

I can post some 1080p footage taken from a car if you wish. This mode should be ok on a helmet mount.

[edit]

Here's some anyway. Bear in mind they are shot through a windscreen and glass reflection is a factor. Audio is removed to screen out the chat! Sunny late afternoon, if I remember correctly.

These were actually shot with a 1.16 beta. I haven't had much time to try out the 1.16 final but it seems to me that the developers may have softened it a little to reduce grain.

St Just

Sennen

Zennor

Penzance

Nanjizal - no windscreen!

John


----------



## Tyke (1 Jul 2011)

Slightly off topic does anyone know how to turn off date and time on the cheap ACT10 camera. The book said its optional but not how to do it.


----------



## cloggsy (1 Jul 2011)

Tyke said:


> Slightly off topic does anyone know how to turn off date and time on the cheap ACT10 camera. The book said its optional but not how to do it.



I don't know if the ACT 10 is anything like the newer ACT 20, but watch this review from YouTube, the guy explains the cameras working really well IMHO!


----------



## Tyke (1 Jul 2011)

cloggsy said:


> I don't know if the ACT 10 is anything like the newer ACT 20, but watch this review from YouTube, the guy explains the cameras working really well IMHO!



Looking at it they look the same camera with the ACT10 being a lower quality recording. The review was very good thanks but sadly using the same method does not work. You do however wright a text file to set the time so you might be on the right lines.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Jul 2011)

Rezillo said:


> I can post some 1080p footage taken from a car if you wish. This mode should be ok on a helmet mount.
> 
> [edit]
> 
> ...



Finally, some bike footage, handlebar mount, 720p at 30fps taken today with 1.16:

Debenham

All the above are 25mb downloads or thereabouts. 

I'm not unhappy with the quality overall - I've used the ContourHD 720p, the 1080p version, some Flip-style HD cameras and several Chinese muvi clones, both sd and upscaled sd, as well as having access to Go Pro, HD bullet cam and the newer Chinese cheapo 720p units' footage. I think the GPS 1080p footage compares to an equivalently priced HD camcorder, although the 720p mode of the latter will probably be better. 

Go up to, say, the mid range Panasonics that start at nearly twice the price and there will be a big jump in quality. You would be comparing chalk and cheese, though, and it's not just about the image sensor used - I wouldn't subject the complex lens of an expensive camcorder to the kind of road vibration that the Contour gets from a handlebar mount on a 50 mile ride.

They all have their pros and cons - how they cope with changing light conditions, quality in low light, mounts that can be plain ugly, high bit rates that require expensive high capacity cards and limit battery life, external battery pack use etc. etc. For example, the ContourHD 1080p has the same optics and image sensor as the GPS unit and (now) a slightly sharper picture - it is however much worse at coping with changing lighting conditions and handling bright skies and dark foregrounds.

The Contour+ looks promising but given all the problems they've had with its predecessor, I would hold fire for a while until some user experience can be assessed.

John


----------



## Cardiac (3 Jul 2011)

I just order one of these from DealExtreme...

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-0-me...camera-with-8-led-night-vision-black-tf-64042

Similar units sold over here go for about £70 so hopefully I save about £20 on that. I am hoping for quality a bit above SD but probably not up to Contour standards. Will take a week or two to arrive based on past experience.


----------



## Jezston (4 Jul 2011)

Well my plan to get a contour has been put on hold by the sudden available of Bestival tickets 

Still tempted by the Poseidon though.


----------



## 6speed (30 Jul 2011)

I bought a bullethd from hedcamz, used to have a cheap bullet camera, but this is much better. Picture quality is really good and its that light, you dont know its there. well worth it for the money.


----------



## cloggsy (30 Jul 2011)

Jezston said:


> Well my plan to get a contour has been put on hold by the sudden available of Bestival tickets
> 
> Still tempted by the Poseidon though.



I bought the Posidon after watching BSRU's 'test footage' on YouTube.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXwgsHbqLzQ[/media]


I'll get some stuff uploaded to 'YouTube' when I've done some so you can see...


----------



## BSRU (31 Jul 2011)

cloggsy said:


> I bought the Posidon after watching BSRU's 'test footage' on YouTube.
> 
> [media]
> ]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXwgsHbqLzQ[/media]
> ...




Other advantages I have found with the Poseidon are,
you get 2 hours and 43 minutes recording from an 8GB card,
the battery lasts just as long,
the battery is cheap to replace as it is a standard np-120 battery.


----------



## cloggsy (31 Jul 2011)

BSRU said:


> Other advantages I have found with the Poseidon are,
> you get 2 hours and 43 minutes recording from an 8GB card,
> the battery lasts just as long,
> the battery is cheap to replace as it is a standard np-120 battery.



I put a 32Gb Class 10 card in mine and recording doesn't even touch the sides, so I can get a load of commutes on mine before I have to get rid of any 

There is only a 1 second delay between the sectional recording too


----------



## BSRU (31 Jul 2011)

cloggsy said:


> I put a 32Gb Class 10 card in mine and recording doesn't even touch the sides, so I can get a load of commutes on mine before I have to get rid of any
> 
> There is only a 1 second delay between the sectional recording too



32Gb would be just enough for a whole week of commuting for me.


----------



## Jezston (2 Aug 2011)

Maybe its the shaking or Flash being rubbish, but I'm not convinced of the frame rate on that vid. Be good to see some footage attached to a helmet to dampen some of the shuddering. Although it's good to see that despite the shaking you don't get that wobbly jelly cmos effect you get on the really cheap cams.


----------



## BSRU (2 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Maybe its the shaking or Flash being rubbish, but I'm not convinced of the frame rate on that vid. Be good to see some footage attached to a helmet to dampen some of the shuddering. Although it's good to see that despite the shaking you don't get that wobbly jelly cmos effect you get on the really cheap cams.



The memory card is a good quality Samsung class 6, previously used in my ContourHD's. The camera frame rate is 30fps, I checked it with "mediainfo". Being attached to the helmet would make a big difference to the vibration but I already have a Contour on my helmet.


----------



## Jezston (2 Aug 2011)

BSRU said:


> The memory card is a good quality Samsung class 6, previously used in my ContourHD's. The camera frame rate is 30fps, I checked it with "mediainfo". Being attached to the helmet would make a big difference to the vibration but I already have a Contour on my helmet.



Mind trying it with the poseidon attached to your helmet on your way home tonight please please please please?






Regarding the frame rate - I wonder if there's some form of video analysis to measure what *true* frame rate is - I recall the furore on some phone that got released that said it could record 30fps at 720p - then it emerged it was actually recording at around 20-odd (varying depending on complexity of the action) and 'upscaling' (?) it to 30.

Sorry for all the doubting ... if I had the money I'd just go out and get a Contour+, but for almost 10% of the price the Poseidon deserves serious consideration!


----------



## BSRU (2 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Mind trying it with the poseidon attached to your helmet on your way home tonight please please please please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Changing mounts on my helmet is a real pain in the arse, as my Contour mount is cable tied with 4 heavy duty cable ties. I will try and make the Posiedon mount a bit more steady.

I use mediainfo as it give good information about video frame rates and data rates. I used it to find my original camera, a Muvi, had a frame rate of just 20fps instead of the stated 30fps.

I don't have the money but I'm waiting for my Contour+ to arrive, should have had it last week but the retailer sent me a Contour GPS by mistake.


----------



## Rezillo (2 Aug 2011)

I've just received a Contour+ It's far too early to post a full review but initial observations from some car trips are very favourable.

Compared to the GPS (latest firmware) version, the field of view is increased without compromising fisheye too much, 720p is significantly better both in overall sharpness and edge to edge definition (quite an achievement in itself, given the fov increase), 1080p improved but not as much as the improvement for 720p in terms of overall quality increase. 

It also seems to handle changing lighting conditions well. I haven't tried night time use yet, but it has been fine in mid/late evening use without changing the settings from those I was using in bright sunlight.

There's a free android app that gives a viewfinder option and camera settings adjustment via bluetooth connection to a phone. This worked first time with my HTC Desire. 

Other changes - there's an hdmi connection for direct video streaming, a jack for a separate microphone, white level control, better battery retention, separate gain control of internal and external mikes and there are cover flaps for direct use of usb and hdmi connectors without opening the back door.

Does it justify the price hike over the GPS version? That's another matter - in many respects the + seems like the GPS version with the bugs and annoyances ironed out but there are enough new features to justify an increase. The lens quality is a big step above its predecessor. 

I wait to see how reliable it is - my experiences with the GPS version were not good until the latest firmware release but I haven't seen too many online grumbles so far.

John


----------



## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

Can you still use 960p mode on the contour+?


----------



## benb (2 Aug 2011)

What I would like is a way of mounting the Contour on my head, for the occasions where I decide not to wear my helmet.
It just seems to heavy for that, but there has to be a way.


----------



## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

You could take the elastic strap of a ski mask and modify it to wrap around your head and then use the google mount on that.


----------



## benb (2 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> You could take the elastic strap of a ski mask and modify it to wrap around your head and then use the google mount on that.



I think that might make me look like a dick (I mean more than I already do)
I have been thinking of getting one with a camera head small enough to mount on the arm of my sunglasses, but that means an external recording unit - there just isn't a bullet style cam that is small and light enough, but still of decent quality - not that I can find anyway.


----------



## Rezillo (2 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> Can you still use 960p mode on the contour+?



I'll have to check later but I believe that the resolution and frame rate options are the same as the GPS version. This probably means that 1080p rolling shutter effects while using a handlebar mount are the same as well (max 30fps) but I'll check that later.

There doesn't seem to be a major drop in quality going from 30fps 720p to 60fps 720p, though. I tried last night switching between the two using a 50" Kuro screen and after initially thinking there was a clear difference, ended up so uncertain that I concluded it was minimal. 60fps on the GPS eliminated rolling shutter effects (faster sensor scanning) so it should be ok for the +.

John


----------



## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

I'm certainly interested in getting the + especially since my camera has died.


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Mind trying it with the poseidon attached to your helmet on your way home tonight please please please please?



I put a couple of short pieces of vid on YouTube from my camera...

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_TQtSrDkVI[/media]


[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQh98AoM0C0[/media]


It's only short, but you kinda get the picture... It's a bit bouncy as the road surface is crap (& I'm obviously going over the railway tracks )


----------



## BSRU (2 Aug 2011)

Rezillo said:


> I've just received a Contour+ It's far too early to post a full review but initial observations from some car trips are very favourable.
> 
> Compared to the GPS (latest firmware) version, the field of view is increased without compromising fisheye too much, 720p is significantly better both in overall sharpness and edge to edge definition (quite an achievement in itself, given the fov increase), 1080p improved but not as much as the improvement for 720p in terms of overall quality increase.
> 
> ...



All sounds good, I watched a "few" YouTube video's and it seemed to handle some night time and changing lighting condition scenario's very well. It's good to know they've improved the 720p mode, I never used it on the 1080p as the quality was too poor. Will be interesting to see how it performs on poorly lit roads at night, my 1080p needed lots of extra halogen lights in order to see anything at all sometimes.


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

Here's a 2 minute piece of footage uploaded in 720P

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfp1MoNuT9g[/media]


----------



## Jezston (2 Aug 2011)

Thanks!

Hmm ... still looks quite shakey compared to the countours. Do the contours likely have some kind of image stabilisation tech that reduce such shakeyness? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and it's just a rough road and a contour would be the same?


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Hmm ... still looks quite shakey compared to the countours. Do the contours likely have some kind of image stabilisation tech that reduce such shakeyness? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and it's just a rough road and a contour would be the same?



As I stated in the text of the vid, I think my mount needs a little more tightening. I don't think the velcro strapping they provide with the camera is 'man enough' for the job... I'm thinking of resorting to cable ties?


----------



## benb (2 Aug 2011)

benb said:


> I think that might make me look like a dick (I mean more than I already do)
> I have been thinking of getting one with a camera head small enough to mount on the arm of my sunglasses, but that means an external recording unit - there just isn't a bullet style cam that is small and light enough, but still of decent quality - not that I can find anyway.



Maybe I could get a close fitting cycling cap, make two small cuts parallel to the ground in the material of the cap, and fit the goggle mount through that?

Kind of defeats the object of not wearing the helmet though, which is the lovely feeling of the wind in my hair.
I really need one I can mount on the arm of my sunglasses, but still have decent quality.


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

... Plus the road surface is shocking!


----------



## Rezillo (2 Aug 2011)

Couple of 'through the windscreen' clips for the contour+. These are very short (10 seconds or so) but have not been re-rendered. The windscreen is having a effect on clarity and is fairly grubby anyway.

1080p 30fps

720p 60fps

I'm still not convinced about 720p - it looks fine in a window at its native resolution but it doesn't upscale well on my PC. On the other hand it looks great on my TV.

I'll see if I can post some 30fps 720p later.

John


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

I've just had an e-mail from Wiggle. They're advertising these


----------



## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

cloggsy said:


> I've just had an e-mail from Wiggle. They're advertising these



Doesn't half look crap!
It takes AAA batteries


----------



## crazy580 (2 Aug 2011)

Also says it will last 6.5 hours, on AAA's? I doubt it.


----------



## gaz (2 Aug 2011)

crazy580 said:


> Also says it will last 6.5 hours, on AAA's? I doubt it.


That is taking just gps. It 'will' last 2.5 hours taking video and gps.


----------



## cloggsy (2 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> Doesn't half look crap!
> It takes AAA batteries



Indeed... I didn't review it, I just though I'd show it


----------



## Rezillo (3 Aug 2011)

BSRU said:


> All sounds good, I watched a "few" YouTube video's and it seemed to handle some night time and changing lighting condition scenario's very well. It's good to know they've improved the 720p mode, I never used it on the 1080p as the quality was too poor. Will be interesting to see how it performs on poorly lit roads at night, my 1080p needed lots of extra halogen lights in order to see anything at all sometimes.



I'm having some second thoughts on the plus's 720p mode - street scenes look good, striking even, but there is some blurring of complex green areas once out in the country, such as grassy verges and roadside trees in leaf. This is a similar problem to one that the gps model had before its firmware fix, albeit less severe. I'd be interested to hear how others get on with it to see if mine is an isolated case.

John


----------



## gaz (3 Aug 2011)

Can you test the 960p mode?  please!


----------



## BSRU (3 Aug 2011)

Rezillo said:


> I'm having some second thoughts on the plus's 720p mode - street scenes look good, striking even, but there is some blurring of complex green areas once out in the country, such as grassy verges and roadside trees in leaf. This is a similar problem to one that the gps model had before its firmware fix, albeit less severe. I'd be interested to hear how others get on with it to see if mine is an isolated case.
> 
> John



Have you mentioned this to Contour support, I'd imagine they'd be very keen to iron out any problems/niggles on their latest camera.


----------



## Rezillo (3 Aug 2011)

Don't worry - I have. One of the reasons I now have a Contour plus is because of beta testing on my part and input into the support team.
They are used to constructive criticism  

John


----------



## jonny jeez (3 Aug 2011)

Sorry if its been said on this thread already (I dont have time to read all 14 pages). I've stopped usijg my Muvi now, its not weather proof, has very few proper mounting options and is becomming really unreliable (lights all flash but the footage is corrupt when I get home).

I use (d) it as a black box recorder, not a Vlog tool and so being able to rely on the capture of footage is paramount.

If I buy another action-cam it will be an gopro HD hero (nothing seems to compare for image quality at this price range) which I could ride with and use for a selection of other recreational pursuits


----------



## Rezillo (3 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> Can you test the 960p mode?  please!



I'll try tomorrow - it will be a car use video as I can't get out on my bike for a day or two yet.

John


----------



## Rezillo (4 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> Can you test the 960p mode?  please!



Far from ideal conditions but here is a brief clip. Looks good but take a look at the tree at the end. Same green blurring that was eventually fixed for the gps version.

960p clip

Disappointing that it is still in the Contour+ but I'm confident that if it is more than just my camera, it will get sorted out. In all other respects, it is a good product.

John


----------



## gaz (4 Aug 2011)

Rezillo said:


> Far from ideal conditions but here is a brief clip. Looks good but take a look at the tree at the end. Same green blurring that was eventually fixed for the gps version.
> 
> 960p clip
> 
> ...



thanks 

i think i will be getting one of these to replace my broken one.


----------



## cloggsy (7 Aug 2011)

gaz said:


> i think i will be getting one of these to replace my broken one.



Cool! It'll be good to see you posting vids again


----------



## Cordulegaster (10 Aug 2011)

Anyone got experience of CamSports HDS-720p.

I'm looking for a light, compact headcam. I like the spec and reviews of the Contour family but aren't they heavy and bulky?

Glyn


----------



## benb (10 Aug 2011)

OK, I've definitely decided to ditch my helmet. Please don't turn this into a helmet debate.

What I think I'll do is mount my Contour on the handlebars, and try and find a bullet style cam that's small and light enough to be mounted on the arm of my sunglasses.

Does anyone know (Gaz?) roughly how much the Bullet HD Wide weighs? If it makes the glasses lopsided, I'll need to add some ballast on the other arm I suppose, but I don't want them to end up too heavy.


----------



## BSRU (10 Aug 2011)

benb said:


> OK, I've definitely decided to ditch my helmet. Please don't turn this into a helmet debate.
> 
> What I think I'll do is mount my Contour on the handlebars, and try and find a bullet style cam that's small and light enough to be mounted on the arm of my sunglasses.
> 
> Does anyone know (Gaz?) roughly how much the Bullet HD Wide weighs? If it makes the glasses lopsided, I'll need to add some ballast on the other arm I suppose, but I don't want them to end up too heavy.



Best to email dogcamsport, their customer service is very good.


----------



## BSRU (10 Aug 2011)

Cordulegaster said:


> Anyone got experience of CamSports HDS-720p.
> 
> I'm looking for a light, compact headcam. I like the spec and reviews of the Contour family but aren't they heavy and bulky?
> 
> Glyn



The Contour's are very light and compact.


----------



## Cordulegaster (10 Aug 2011)

Benb how about these?

http://camsports.com....php?Itemid=188

the Coach camera sunnies.

http://camsports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=427&Itemid=326


----------



## benb (10 Aug 2011)

Cordulegaster said:


> Benb how about these?
> 
> http://camsports.com....php?Itemid=188
> 
> ...



Very cool, Mission Impossible style.
1.5 - 2 hour battery is impressive in such a small package.

I have got rather an expensive set of photochromic glasses though, so would be loath to retire them.
This one looks very compact.


----------



## benb (10 Aug 2011)

BSRU said:


> Best to email dogcamsport, their customer service is very good.



Cheers, they have a handy live chat on their site. One of their guys went and weighed one. 35g.


----------



## Danny251 (11 Aug 2011)

That CAMSPORTS Coach looks really good and I think the videos look great too. It's definitely an option for me.


----------



## BSRU (11 Aug 2011)

The Contour HD 1080p is currently only £150 from Amazon.


----------



## gaz (11 Aug 2011)

What a bargain!


----------



## BSRU (11 Aug 2011)

Seems the Contour Plus has a minor GPS problem, a set intervals it looses elevation information and states it has contact with -1 satellites.

I've reported it but I am a little disappointed that a brand new camera has GPS problems after all the problems with the previous model the Contour GPS.


----------



## Cordulegaster (12 Aug 2011)

Thought about the Contour HD at £150 on Amazon (now £175) but have decided on BulletHD Wide from Dogcam on basis of weight and size. 35g vs 115g.


----------



## Jezston (12 Aug 2011)

Cordulegaster said:


> Thought about the Contour HD at £150 on Amazon * (now £175) *









I would have totally hit that, if it weren't for the price increase and the fact I spent £80 on dinner last night.

Forever procrastinating...


----------



## HLaB (12 Aug 2011)

No idea how good they are and it might have been discussed before but I see Cateye are getting in on the camera game. I love the description


> the first affordable


. £180 (with customer discount) is affordable for what looks like a standard camera with GPS


----------



## BSRU (12 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> I would have totally hit that, if it weren't for the price increase and the fact I spent £80 on dinner last night.
> 
> Forever procrastinating...



With Amazon you need to check them every day, they always price it a little cheaper than anyone else trying to sell it through Amazon, that is why the price keeps changing.


----------



## deckertim (15 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> I would have totally hit that, if it weren't for the price increase and the fact I spent £80 on dinner last night.
> 
> Forever procrastinating...



Caught me out too. I was going to order one, then spent 3 days looking for a good price on the helmet mount. Doh


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

BSRU said:


> The Contour HD 1080p is currently only £150 from Amazon.



Just thought I'd have a look today and ... the deal is back!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/VholdR-Cont...SYZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1314178335&sr=8-2

Any reason why I shouldn't get one RIGHT NOW?

Anyone got a pic of one on a helmet so I can get an idea of size and mounting?


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

AhahahaohGod I just bought one.

Expect the forum to get spammed with tedious uneventful footage imminently


----------



## Cordulegaster (24 Aug 2011)

Interested in picture of helmet mounting and your views on bulk/weight.

I just got a Dogcam Bullet Wide and am happy with the fitting but that 1080p............


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

Had a google image search and it is quite large compared to some cams, but appears to come with myriad mounting options. Just a bit worried after looking at my brand new helmet there isn't much ventilation on the sides! But with all the options I should work something out.


----------



## gaz (24 Aug 2011)

You need the vented helmet mount for the contourHD. putting it on the sides is pretty hard.
here are some images of mine, although the vented helmet mount is broken but you get the idea.


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

Looks like from those photos that you can rotate the camera around the base unit to get the optimal angle whilst still keeping it pointing flat - is that correct?


----------



## gaz (24 Aug 2011)

Yes. The lens rotates separately from the main unit.


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

Wickens.


----------



## daSmirnov (24 Aug 2011)

My ContourHD turned up Monday evening. Don't expect I'll be uploading much as it's only about 5-6 miles everyday, but I do usually get the odd crappy overtake and abuse shouted out at me.

In fact the first day I had it out when leaving work another cyclist already commented on it and asked if I posted online.... Not yet my friend, not yet.

Yesterday got it pointed in the right direction, just enough to be able to see the car, and my Gaz-style-hand-gestures. Today just experimenting with exposure settings - going to be a pain in the winter since I can work whacky shifts where I'll be going in at mid day and leaving after dark since I don't have a computer there to change the settings.

Other than that nice bit of kit. Have a vid up of a couple of minutes of today's uneventful commute a bit later tonight. Tad over-exposed but pretty good.


----------



## BSRU (24 Aug 2011)

daSmirnov said:


> My ContourHD turned up Monday evening. Don't expect I'll be uploading much as it's only about 5-6 miles everyday, but I do usually get the odd crappy overtake and abuse shouted out at me.
> 
> In fact the first day I had it out when leaving work another cyclist already commented on it and asked if I posted online.... Not yet my friend, not yet.
> 
> ...



A way around the exposure settings problem during the winter is to use filters in daylight and take them off during hours of darkness. Not a perfect solution but helps when no computer available.


----------



## mummra (24 Aug 2011)

I have the Contour GPS side mounted with the vented helmet mount.
Never had any issues and the helmet isn't caught in the footage.
You do have to make sure that the mount is always tight as it can slip around in the vents so can bounce around a bit.
Sorry for the poo photos.


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

I notice they sell a waterproof case for the Contours - how do they fair in rain? Is the case only necessary for the worst of showers, or should I not be taking it out without one even in a slight drizzle?


----------



## mummra (24 Aug 2011)

I've had mine out in heavy rain though they don't recommend it but what can you do when you've on for a record commute 
I had to put it in a bowl of rice (recommendation from their forums) to dry out the water that had got behind the lens.
I've used it twice a day since March apart from 1 afternoon when it was the worst rain I've been in.
Other than that it's been perfect.
A light shower doesn't even bother it.


----------



## gaz (24 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> I notice they sell a waterproof case for the Contours - how do they fair in rain? Is the case only necessary for the worst of showers, or should I not be taking it out without one even in a slight drizzle?



Only for the worst of showers. In a very heavy and prolonged fall of rain it will enter at the point where the lens cover and main part rotate.


----------



## Jezston (24 Aug 2011)

Good stuff!

Mine should arrive tomorrow


----------



## Jezston (25 Aug 2011)

*facepalm*

Bit annoyed.

It doesn't actually come with the helmet mount does it.

Full description on Amazon seems to imply it comes with all the mounts you need.

TWENTY QUID for about 10p worth of velcro strap and plastic if I buy one from Amazon themselves and get it tomorrow. £16 elsewhere but I have to wait up to a week.

Buggerit.


----------



## Mad at urage (25 Aug 2011)

mummra said:


> I've had mine out in heavy rain though they don't recommend it but what can you do when you've on for a record commute
> *I had to put it in a bowl of rice* (recommendation from their forums) to dry out the water that had got behind the lens.
> I've used it twice a day since March apart from 1 afternoon when it was the worst rain I've been in.
> Other than that it's been perfect.
> A light shower doesn't even bother it.


Plain boiled or Pilau? 



gaz said:


> Only for the worst of showers. In a very heavy and prolonged fall of *rain it will enter at the point where the lens cover and main part rotate.*


Does taping that part help?


----------



## gaz (25 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> Bit annoyed.
> 
> ...



I did say you need to get a vented helmet mount 
It's worth getting the offical mount, it's designed not to affect the performace of the helmet whilst in a crash as the mount and camera seperate under high forces.


----------



## Jezston (25 Aug 2011)

I have begrudgingly spent £20 on one!

Interesting the 'inbetween' mount bit has a bit of very strong velcro inside it. Stuck a fluffy ... anti-velcro (?) pad on the side of my helmet, and it seems pretty secure.

Whether I want to try risking £150 of brand new camera with it on the road is another question!


----------



## BSRU (25 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> I have begrudgingly spent £20 on one!
> 
> Interesting the 'inbetween' mount bit has a bit of very strong velcro inside it. Stuck a fluffy ... anti-velcro (?) pad on the side of my helmet, and it seems pretty secure.
> 
> Whether I want to try risking £150 of brand new camera with it on the road is another question!



I would suggest you tether the camera to your helmet, a pain trying to thread it through the hole on the camera but precision flat head screwdriver does the job.


----------



## BentMikey (25 Aug 2011)

Always have a lanyard!!


----------



## mummra (25 Aug 2011)

Agree. I've used the small lanyard supplied and wrapped it round one of the helmet straps


----------



## Jezston (25 Aug 2011)

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*

Rush ordered my helmet mount. Didn't pay attention to address. It's arriving tomorrow morning. At my mother's house. In London. And she's on holiday.

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*

Fortunately I'm down there tomorrow night. Hopefully it'll be dropped off at a neighbours and if not the depot is open on Saturday's and not in Watford!


----------



## daSmirnov (26 Aug 2011)

D'oh :-(

http://www.youtube.com/aldershotcyclist few of the vids here.

It's been out two or three times in the rain now. The video of my commute yesterday was the worst as it was pretty heavy, but it's only out in it for about 10 minutes. If it was out for longer or in worse conditions I'd probably consider pocketing it just to be on the safe side, or getting the water proof case. Took a few hours to dry out, don't think any water got in the back however. Helmet was still damp when I left work. >.>


----------



## BSRU (26 Aug 2011)

daSmirnov said:


> D'oh :-(
> 
> http://www.youtube.c...ldershotcyclist few of the vids here.
> 
> It's been out two or three times in the rain now. The video of my commute yesterday was the worst as it was pretty heavy, but it's only out in it for about 10 minutes. If it was out for longer or in worse conditions I'd probably consider pocketing it just to be on the safe side, or getting the water proof case. Took a few hours to dry out, don't think any water got in the back however. Helmet was still damp when I left work. >.>



I never worry about rain and my Contour, it seems to handle everything fine.


----------



## Jezston (29 Aug 2011)

Hmm.

Got my helmet mount at the weekend.

Did some test recording at work, all seemed fine albeit with a slightly dim image, and an odd vertical strobing effect on the video which I might attribute to the florescent lights.

Switched it on to record the journey to the train station. Switched it back on to record for the journey from the train station. Got home, plugged it in ... no video.

Hmm.

EDIT Switch at the BACK as well as the switch on top to start recording *facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*. 

I need a holiday.


----------



## BSRU (29 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Got my helmet mount at the weekend.
> 
> ...



I have turned it on and started to record only to realise when I got home I had forgotten to remove the lens cap, so had a nice video of nothing.


----------



## mummra (29 Aug 2011)

I got to work the other day and went to turn mine off and realised that I hadn't slid the switch on the top forward 
Good job I've got a boring commute usually.


----------



## BentMikey (29 Aug 2011)

It's remarkable how you have to pay attention to detail to get day after day of reliable footage. Habit is what works for me, most of the time.


----------



## mummra (29 Aug 2011)

The problem I've got is using the GPS version you need to power on for about 30 seconds before starting to record so if I'm rushing I sometime forget.


----------



## BSRU (30 Aug 2011)

mummra said:


> The problem I've got is using the GPS version you need to power on for about 30 seconds before starting to record so if I'm rushing I sometime forget.



Contour are looking into an idea of mine, that is to have an audible signal to let you know when GPS lock has been achieved.


----------



## Jezston (30 Aug 2011)

Managed to get it to work and record my first commute today!

However it appears I'm going to need a bigger memory card. Despite recording only at 720p, it beeped at me about halfway through the second part of my commute. Just before I got rather horribly cut up by a lorry who clearly hadn't anticipated how long it would take to overtake me.

I'll get there eventually


----------



## Jezston (30 Aug 2011)

So, memory cards. 16GB seems to be the sweet spot in terms of bang per buck.

Anything I should be aware of? Is 'class' particularly relevant? Should I be ok as long as I get a decent branded job like Sandisk or Kingston?

Just remembered I have an old corrupted 16gb microsd card lying around somewhere that I never sent back for replacement. Over 2 years old now ... might give it another try for a spare!


----------



## MrHappyCyclist (30 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Anything I should be aware of? Is 'class' particularly relevant? Should I be ok as long as I get a decent branded job like Sandisk or Kingston?


I think class is very important - it determines the data rate that the card can be read and written at. I was having a lot of trouble on my cheap camera with corrupt files and camera failures using a couple of class 4 cards. I was about to send the camera back, but I replaced the cards with a good quality class 6 card, and it's been very reliable since. Mine is only 640x480, so your camera will have to write a higher data rate than mine. I'd go for class 8 at least.


----------



## abo (30 Aug 2011)

Class is *very* important if you're going to be capturing high resolution. Class relates to the write speed of the card; Class 2 = 2MB/s, Class 4 = 4MB/s etc.

So basically, the higher the resolution you're filming at, the faster the card you need otherwise as MHC says above, you'll start to get corrupted files. I suspect the camera will have a buffer; if it fills the buffer faster than it can write to the card then it'll start losing data, falling over itself or whatever.

Here is something to beware of!!! Counterfit memory cards. Be very careful buying on eBay, the market etc. There are a lot of counterfit memory cards out there which are marked up as e.g. 8GB Class 6 Kingstons but will really be a class 2 generic cheapo thing under the fake branding.

As with anything else I guess, buy the best you can afford and be careful of deals that look too cheap, they're probably cheap for a reason.


----------



## mummra (30 Aug 2011)

My tuppence worth is as above.
When I was having issues I did some tests on the 3 cards I have.
1 - 2GB Card (Unknown class) supplied by Contour with camera
2 - 8GB generic (Unknown class) card from an old Nokia N95
3 - 16GB Sandisk class 4 from a HTC Desire HD

The Contour card was far and away the fastest, then the 8GB then the 16GB just after.
Even though Contour say a Class 4 card is fine I wouldn't go for anything less than a class 6 after my tests


----------



## Rezillo (30 Aug 2011)

My experience with the Contour range is that provided you have a genuine known name brand card that is properly formatted (Contour recommend a Panasonic utility for this, or use the pinhole format button in the GPS version), you shouldn't go far wrong. Contour say that class 2 is ok but I would still go for class 4 if you can, or a class 2 that is known to operate at class 4 speeds.

Where I have had problems is with no-name brands. I bought a Play.com 32gb class 4 which had occasional lockups with the GPS version and refused to work at all with the 1080p. A Sandisk 32gb class 4 card, that tests at very similar speeds to the Play.com one, works fine in both units and now in a Contour+ without any glitches.

Similarly, I've got two 16gb cards - one tests 50% faster than the other but it is the latter, a PNY class 2 which barely scrapes the class 4 standard in testing, that works fine with all the cameras on the highest bitrate/quality settings. The other locks up or cuts files short. 

Both the 'incompatible' cards work in a card reader in a PC and speed test ok - it seems the Contour cameras are just sensitive about something to do with the card type. Avoid Ebay - apart from fake sizes, you could get a real size with a fake brand label and a card that won't work in the camera. Contour forums have got a lot of posts about compatible cards and card problems where 'auction site' purchases seem to feature quite highly. I'd go for an Amazon-supplied one (direct, not from reseller).

Best performing one I have is an 8gb Sandisk mobile ultra - works fine and copy speeds from the camera are excellent.

John


----------



## Jezston (31 Aug 2011)

Do I really need Class 6? Just that they are twice the price of class 4 cards!

Apparently vholdr used to have a forum where people discussed what cards they had and how they got on, but vholdr got rid of the forum 

EDIT they appear to have a sort of yahoo-answers esque forum.

Here are two answers from similar questions, both answers coming from users marked as 'employee's.



> The ContourGPS will benefit from a higher class rating up to class 6. The camera can use higher class cards; you just won't get any benefit from it. I'd recommend class 6.







> Basically any card that is a minimum of a class 2 will be fine.


----------



## Jezston (31 Aug 2011)

Maybe I should work this out:

Highest Quality - 720p 60fps (this uses the most memory) = 7min per GB (1080p @ 30fps gives 8 min per GB)

= 146mb per minute

= 2.4mb per second

Thus Class 2 will be good enough ... for everything other than Action HD.

Thus Class 4 will be good enough for everything. As long as the card actually is class 4.

I'll get a branded card off Amazon directly and should be fine!


----------



## BSRU (31 Aug 2011)

Jezston said:


> Maybe I should work this out:
> 
> Highest Quality - 720p 60fps (this uses the most memory) = 7min per GB (1080p @ 30fps gives 8 min per GB)
> 
> ...



I find when I use 1080p I get about 10 minutes per GB.


----------



## gaz (2 Sep 2011)

reiver said:


> What sort of file does the camera create?
> 
> Before you upload to you tube do you compress or convert the file in any way?
> 
> Or would you for instance upload a 500mb file for a 5 minute film, if so how long does the upload take?



It uses a h.264 codec in a .mov container.

the second question is dependant on how people edit and upload their files. I personally do compress it slightly to make a smaller file.

My latest silly cyclists video was 6mins long and a total of 688.3mb in size after compression. But note this has lots of layers, graphics, transitions and additional audio. For me it took around 40mins to upload to youtube. BUT upload speeds are totally depending on your connection and the upload speed that your ISP gives you. I have a relatively good upload speed of around 1.5Mb/s


----------



## Rezillo (2 Sep 2011)

The mov container can be a bit of a pain when it comes to playback on other devices. As it has h264 content, simply renaming mov to mp4 can be enough for it to work. However, this does not fool a PS3 or my phone.

There is an easy answer and that is to use software that repackages the content into an mp4 container. This does not re-render it, so the quality stays the same, and it doesn't take hours to do - usually just a couple of minutes. It then plays back on just about anything. The only downside is that if you have a Contour gps or +, you lose the gps content.

There are several programs that do this but this one is as good as any and is very easy to use. Yamb download . Pick the 'recommended download' with installer.

John


----------



## BSRU (2 Sep 2011)

reiver said:


> What sort of file does the camera create?
> 
> Before you upload to you tube do you compress or convert the file in any way?
> 
> Or would you for instance upload a 500mb file for a 5 minute film, if so how long does the upload take?



The camera produces a h.264 quicktime mov file, I always re-render with Power Director as, I do not know if it is still true, YouTube does not like quicktime mov files.
I normally re-render as mpeg2 files, it does make large files and the upload is quite long, depending on how slow YouTube is, I also find it faster to upload from Firefox, Chrome is alot slower.


----------



## gaz (2 Sep 2011)

BSRU said:


> I do not know if it is still true, YouTube does not like quicktime mov files.


in what way? I've never experienced problems with mov files.


----------



## BSRU (2 Sep 2011)

gaz said:


> in what way? I've never experienced problems with mov files.



I think when I checked which formats it accepted .mov was not one of them, but it was a long time ago so I may have just remembered incorrectly.


----------



## daSmirnov (2 Sep 2011)

Like gaz said, it's H.264 with AAC audio, in a .mov container. Windows 7 will play it out of the box (without QuickTime installed) and Windows Live Movie Maker will happily edit it (without QuickTime installed).

You typically won't upload the original .mov to YouTube, but either way YouTube handles H.264 and AAC fine, although when I stick mine through Vegas I usually encode them as WMV9/VC-1 as the built in encoder has a few more options than the H.264 on average 12mbps, so slightly down from the originals around 15mbps but by the time YouTube messes with it, it won't matter much. For other video stuff where I used to use Expression Encoder and encode to H.264 YouTube didn't have any problems re-encoding. At the end of the day it's just H.264 in a .mov container, mov is just a container like an AVI can hold divx/xvid/mpeg or other formats.

My PS3 won't play them over the network, not sure what the deal with that is maybe it only supports some H.264/AAC profiles, although actually I recall Premiere only reading the files as audio too, but I didn't investigate further and just used Vegas. After being renamed to .mp4 my Xbox 360 and Windows Phone plays them alright. I'm in the habit of renaming them to .mp4 anyway as it's a more appropriate extension for what the files contain, plus that way when the other half turns around and wants to watch something on the telly, I've got some choice content available on demand.


----------



## gaz (8 Sep 2011)

ContourROAM came out today. contemplating getting this as my next camera and not the +.

The + has lots of features that I don't require but the ROAM has everything I want from the +. Only downside i think is the battery


----------



## benb (9 Sep 2011)

gaz said:


> ContourROAM came out today. contemplating getting this as my next camera and not the +.
> 
> The + has lots of features that I don't require but the ROAM has everything I want from the +. Only downside i think is the battery



What are the main differences?


----------



## BSRU (9 Sep 2011)

benb said:


> What are the main differences?



Contour's Comparison


----------



## Origamist (9 Sep 2011)

BSRU said:


> Contour's Comparison



Good battery life and waterproof are two pluses when compared to the + and GPS, but I note it will not record at 50/60fps.


----------



## BSRU (9 Sep 2011)

Origamist said:


> Good battery life and waterproof are two pluses when compared to the + and GPS, but I note it will not record at 50/60fps.



I was disappointed to discover that the Plus could not cope with a downpour without letting water in behind the lens cover, my 1080p's never had this problem even if far worse rain storms.


----------



## Cordulegaster (9 Sep 2011)

B*****r. It is always the same with electronics. You review the market, decide on which compromises to make, take the plunge and just after the point of no return a better gizmo is launched! ;-(

Glyn


----------



## john stocks (23 Aug 2012)

i have the Raider Action Camera Ten worth the money but some things wrong with the time stamp.won't stay at the right day and time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/spirit18471?feature=mhee


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (23 Aug 2012)

Im using this on the front at the moment,the old one the time stamp wouldn't work but it got a stamp of it's own when a bus went over it.The new one,the timestamp works fine.Think it was a firmware issue.Also have an imported helmet type cam and it looks very good if not a bit heavy duty compared to the last one I bought which was crap.





The new one,haven't worked out how to fit it yet.Replacement batteries are only a fiver a throw on ebay (NP 120 batteries) and timestamp.Also it has a seperate charger plus yo can charge the battery in the camera.
The old one of this type had a flimsy wire,lasted five minutes.No good on the bike.


----------



## Rezillo (23 Aug 2012)

The big boys are coming into the market now. There's this out soon:

http://cdn.jvc.eu/adixxion/#

with image stabilisation and rolling shutter prevention. It looks bulky but is the size of a Contour with the front half inch or so cut off.

Then there's this, possibly later this year:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-t...era-to-go-head-to-head-with-gopros-offerings/

John


----------



## BSRU (23 Aug 2012)

Rezillo said:


> The big boys are coming into the market now. There's this out soon:
> 
> http://cdn.jvc.eu/adixxion/#
> 
> ...


The JVC has a problem with battery life, only 1hr 10mins using it in full HD mode, also fixed orientation, not a great selection of mounts and only a 5MP sensor on a brand new camera.


----------



## BentMikey (23 Aug 2012)

Have you seen M13's latest camera glasses? They look totally awesome.


----------



## Rezillo (23 Aug 2012)

BSRU said:


> The JVC has a problem with battery life, only 1hr 10mins using it in full HD mode, also fixed orientation, not a great selection of mounts and only a 5MP sensor on a brand new camera.


 
Horses for courses, though.

1 hour 10 minutes is only 20 minutes less than my Contour+ running at 1080p with max quality settings. It runs off a usb charger as well, so my existing battery pack should run it for many hours anyway and it may be that the shorter battery life reflects a higher bit rate recording - I don't know if this is the case, though. All I need is a handlebar mount, which it has. Fixed orientation doesn't matter to me.

The deal breakers for me are the image stabilisation and rolling shutter compensation (if it works). At the moment, road vibration forces 720p use for me for handlebar mounting, although I can just about get by with 1080p on a steel frame/forks bike without too much rolling shutter. It was interesting that the JVC demo footage cut away just as the bike moved from a flat to a rough paved surface road, so they weren't keen on showing the results.

I would like to see some raw footage and not something transcoded through Youtube before buying as image quality is important. The 5MP sensor is no worse than the Contour and my opinion is that the restricted bit rate used is more of a limiting factor than the sensor on the overall output quality of Contour cams, which is pretty good. I've tested a number of Contour betas that use slightly higher rates (which cause other problems, so there is always a trade-off) and the picture quality is markedly better. I still use one of them in the Contour+ as I prefer it to the official release.

John


----------



## BSRU (23 Aug 2012)

Rezillo said:


> 1 hour 10 minutes is only 20 minutes less than my Contour+ running at 1080p with max quality settings.


 
Strange I am getting at least 1 hour 45 minutes from my Contour+ running 1080p with max settings, which is just enough for my morning commute.


----------



## gaz (23 Aug 2012)

BentMikey said:


> Have you seen M13's latest camera glasses? They look totally awesome.


I stopped watching M13 as his video quality was annoying. *goes to watch*


----------



## BentMikey (23 Aug 2012)

I can't find it now, but they looked awesome!


----------



## Rezillo (23 Aug 2012)

BSRU said:


> Strange I am getting at least 1 hour 45 minutes from my Contour+ running 1080p with max settings, which is just enough for my morning commute.


 
Yes, but I'm using an old beta with a bit rate substantially higher than the release version.

Not that it matters that much - unless its in the car it runs at 720p on my bar mount, which lasts a lot longer. On long rides, it's powered by a battery pack. I can get a 100 mile ride on a 32gb card at 720p with the pack (just!). There's a picture of it with my old Contour gps at http://kjh.ca/contour_mods/doku.php?id=external_battery_pack:start

John


----------



## manalog (23 Aug 2012)

Miquel In De Rain said:


> Im using this on the front at the moment,the old one the time stamp wouldn't work but it got a stamp of it's own when a bus went over it.The new one,the timestamp works fine.Think it was a firmware issue.Also have an imported helmet type cam and it looks very good if not a bit heavy duty compared to the last one I bought which was crap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Miguel,

What is the name of the second cam the one with the Display? It looks ideal as a Helmet cam


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (23 Aug 2012)

manalog said:


> Miguel,
> 
> What is the name of the second cam the one with the Display? It looks ideal as a Helmet cam


 
IT is but it's heavy duty and heavy,the best I have seen but bulky.Haven't worked out how to fit it yet.Haven't tested it yet,may do tomorrow.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HD1080P-...orts-Action-Helmet-Camera-AT26B-/280894352851

Basically this is it.Not disappointed with it,it looks the best I have ever had but using the other cam at the moment with the new Nickel Zinc batteries.


----------



## BSRU (23 Aug 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Yes, but I'm using an old beta with a bit rate substantially higher than the release version.
> 
> Not that it matters that much - unless its in the car it runs at 720p on my bar mount, which lasts a lot longer. On long rides, it's powered by a battery pack. I can get a 100 mile ride on a 32gb card at 720p with the pack (just!). There's a picture of it with my old Contour gps at http://kjh.ca/contour_mods/doku.php?id=external_battery_pack:start
> 
> John


For an experiment I hacked together a 9600mAh 12V lion battery with the Contour 12v car adaptor and had the camera running for over eight hours with lots of battery power left, although had to change the memory card a few times.


----------



## john stocks (26 Aug 2012)

Raider Action Camera 2 hour's 45 mins rec on a 8gb card not bad


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (26 Aug 2012)

The first camera lasts two commutes with nickel zinc batteries.AA's.Great.

May do better than last years trip to Thailand Bike Tour.May use alkaline if it comes to battery life.


----------



## BSRU (4 Sep 2012)

A video of the new Sony offering, from the little snippet I watched it has 120fps for 720p.
http://blog.sony.com/sonyactioncam


----------



## BSRU (4 Sep 2012)

Price £362 due out in November.
Extra info
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/sony_hdr-as15

There is a cheaper hdr-as10 which does not have wifi, not sure of the price.


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (4 Sep 2012)

Still looks too big for my helmet.(ooer)


----------



## Rezillo (4 Sep 2012)

BSRU said:


> Price £362 due out in November.
> Extra info
> http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/sony_hdr-as15
> 
> There is a cheaper hdr-as10 which does not have wifi, not sure of the price.


 
"Around 250 dollars" in the blog video comes out in UK terms at £360!!!! That's even more mark-up than the usual straight dollar to pound rip-off. The non-wifi version was "around 200 dollars" so I guess around £300.

Interesting Sony blog video (thanks BSRU). "up to" 3 hours battery life (replaceable), 120fps, image stabilisation and a big name lens.

John


----------



## BSRU (4 Sep 2012)

Rezillo said:


> "Around 250 dollars" in the blog video comes out in UK terms at £360!!!! That's even more mark-up than the usual straight dollar to pound rip-off. The non-wifi version was "around 200 dollars" so I guess around £300.
> 
> Interesting Sony blog video (thanks BSRU). "up to" 3 hours battery life (replaceable), 120fps, image stabilisation and a big name lens.
> 
> John


Cheaper to buy from the US even with the added cost of the import duty/tax.


----------



## Wilsy27 (4 Sep 2012)

I have the action camhd from maplin at £70
http://www.maplin.co.uk/action-camera-3-hd-626314 
copy of the video quality is available via my one and only (so far...) YouTube video of someone pulling out in front of me

View: 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-x75RiyHkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## BSRU (6 Sep 2012)

Contour have released a new camera.
The Contour+2, seems to be the same as the Contour+ except some superfluous changes, although $100 cheaper and comes with a waterproof case.
Unfortunately it is still twice the price of the new Sony(without wifi), so making it look very overpriced.


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (6 Sep 2012)

I don't like cameras with internal lithium batteries as the batteries don't last forever.Unless they are possible to replace that is.


----------



## BSRU (6 Sep 2012)

Miquel In De Rain said:


> I don't like cameras with internal lithium batteries as the batteries don't last forever.Unless they are possible to replace that is.


The Contour Roam has a built in(it cannot be replaced) battery, all other Contours/GoPros/Sonys allow batteries to be changed.
I carry a spare batteries just in case the one in the camera has not actually charged properly.


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (6 Sep 2012)

The funny looking camera im using at the moment uses AA Nickel Zinc or NiMh if that turns you on.The new helmet camera sort uses a lithium replaceable battery.


----------



## Rezillo (7 Oct 2012)

Sony's UK pricing is up and it's much less than anticipated but no news of a cheaper non-wifi version.

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-action-cam/hdr-as15?page=ProductNewSeriesHome

I haven't been very impressed with some of the JVC Adixxion footage on Youtube - substantial smearing of green and brown roadside vegetation, which has been a feature of early Contour firmwares. At least some of it will be down to Youtube transcoding but Contour+ youtube footage looks rather better and the new Sony even more so.

John


----------



## Deleted member 20519 (7 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Sony's UK pricing is up and it's much less than anticipated but no news of a cheaper non-wifi version.
> 
> http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-action-cam/hdr-as15?page=ProductNewSeriesHome
> 
> ...


 
The US seems to have a non-wifi version for £120, http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666484161


----------



## Rezillo (7 Oct 2012)

jazloc said:


> The US seems to have a non-wifi version for £120, http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666484161


 
The US ones also appear to come with waterproof case and universal camera mount as standard - not so the UK one, it seems.

John


----------



## gaz (7 Oct 2012)

Contour+2 now available in the uk. £320 on amazon


----------



## BSRU (8 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> The US ones also appear to come with waterproof case and universal camera mount as standard - not so the UK one, it seems.
> 
> John


The only difference I have found between the US and UK sold cameras is the price, much cheaper in the US plus Sony will not allow any US sellers to sell it outside of the US, (protecting it's UK/EU markup).


----------



## Rezillo (8 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> The only difference I have found between the US and UK sold cameras is the price, much cheaper in the US plus Sony will not allow any US sellers to sell it outside of the US, (protecting it's UK/EU markup).


 
Yes, although the US page has the included case listed under the Features tab but not so the UK page, the case is listed as included in the UK Specifications tab, so I was wrong.

Looking at some of the early customer reviews on the US site for both the wifi and non-wifi versions, and having downloaded the manual, one annoying drawback seems to be that the fixed mount options all involve using the waterproof case, which seals the camera in, of course, and muffles the audio. However, one review claims the case muffles the audio, another says it makes little difference, so perhaps more reports needed before jumping to conclusions.

The helmet strap BLT-HB1 seems to use a different clamp arrangement that doesn't need the case (another headband mount VCT-GM1 does use the waterproof case, btw). It may be that a bar mount with decent audio would require some surgery on the helmet mount to clamp it to a bar fixing but I'll wait for some more user reviews to see what happens.

John


----------



## BSRU (8 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Yes, although the US page has the included case listed under the Features tab but not so the UK page, the case is listed as included in the UK Specifications tab, so I was wrong.
> 
> Looking at some of the early customer reviews on the US site for both the wifi and non-wifi versions, and having downloaded the manual, one annoying drawback seems to be that the fixed mount options all involve using the waterproof case, which seals the camera in, of course, and muffles the audio. However, one review claims the case muffles the audio, another says it makes little difference, so perhaps more reports needed before jumping to conclusions.
> 
> ...


The contour in it's waterproof case has the same sound problem but I have found that I never needed the waterproof case even in the heaviest downpours, a little waterproof tape around the join where the lens rotates is enough. The GoPro also has the same sound problem but unfortunately it often needs to be in it's waterproof case as it is very open to water ingress.

The Sony mounting does look disappointing especially if you want to top helmet mount it, looks as bad as the current GoPro.
I have ordered the Sony instead of the C+2 mainly because I think the changes from the C+ to the C+2 are trivial, apart from the higher bit rate.


----------



## Rezillo (8 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> I have ordered the Sony instead of the C+2 mainly because I think the changes from the C+ to the C+2 are trivial, apart from the higher bit rate.


 
I agree and glad you're taking the plunge from a purely selfish point of view - hopefully some first hand experience and comparisons will be here before I make a buying decision. 

John


----------



## BSRU (8 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> I agree and glad you're taking the plunge from a purely selfish point of view - hopefully some first hand experience and comparisons will be here before I make a buying decision.
> 
> John


Once it arrives, hopefully by the end of the month, and once I have figured out how too mount it with my C+ I will make a few comparison videos.


----------



## BSRU (10 Oct 2012)

For those using the GoPro HD Hero 2, there is a new firmware release which has something called "ProTune" which ups massively the output rate to 35Mps and appears to have improved the quality of video's recorded( from watching comparison videos on YouTube, not owning two HD2's myself).
It is also worth noting that the HD3 is out in the not to distant future and it will not be the classic brick shape, it is supposedly similar shape to the Contour/Sony.


----------



## benb (10 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> For those using the GoPro HD Hero 2, there is a new firmware release which has something called "ProTune" which ups massively the output rate to 35Mps and appears to have improved the quality of video's recorded( from watching comparison videos on YouTube, not owning two HD2's myself).
> It is also worth noting that the HD3 is out in the not to distant future and it will not be the classic brick shape, it is supposedly similar shape to the Contour/Sony.


 
Cheers. I was thinking of upgrading to the Contour +2, but will wait and see what the HD3 is like.


----------



## BSRU (10 Oct 2012)

benb said:


> Cheers. I was thinking of upgrading to the Contour +2, but will wait and see what the HD3 is like.


No idea when the HD3 will be out, it could be next year.
The information I have read is from a GoPro forum which has a couple of people "in the know" but even they do not know when it will be released.
The general feeling is the new, long delayed, firmware for the HD2 has pushed the release date out.
I have the Contour+ and it is pants in low light conditions compared to the GoPro. Apparently the new Sony is even better than the GoPro in low light conditions.


----------



## Matthew_T (10 Oct 2012)

The Sony has become quite popular dont you think? There is even a YouTube user in America who has been tesing it out.
The quality looks competitive with GoPro and Contour. It could work out quite well for the manufacturer.


----------



## gaz (10 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> The Sony has become quite popular dont you think? There is even a YouTube user in America who has been tesing it out.
> The quality looks competitive with GoPro and Contour. It could work out quite well for the manufacturer.


nah.. only one person is putting out a few videos, apart from that i've not seen anyone else using them or even talking about them.


----------



## BSRU (10 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> nah.. only one person is putting out a few videos, apart from that i've not seen anyone else using them or even talking about them.


Apart from me.
Not released in UK/EU yet, not until the end of the month.
I watched a GoPro/Sony comparison video last night with the Sony using it's image stabilisation. Looks like it works a treat and the image quality was much better on the Sony.
Not sure if the same can be said after the ProTune release for the HD2, it basically turns off the camera processing of the video image produced by the sensor.


----------



## Rezillo (10 Oct 2012)

Interesting thread here:
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread...S10-and-HDR-AS15-Thread-Discussion-and-Videos
Like handlebar mounts, model planes suffer a lot of vibration and there are some clear rolling shutter (jello) effects in some of the vids shown for the Sony.

Interestingly, this is worse with image stabilisation on but that is probably because the fov in this mode goes from 170 to 120 degs, making the effect worse (vibration amplitude of foreground movement increases with narrower fov, making rolling shutter more evident). The JVC claims to have both image stabilisation and additional processing to minimise rolling shutter but whether the latter works ok, I don't know.

60fps recording will minimise this in 720p mode but for some reason the Sony recordings, according to users, play back 60fps at 30fps, to give a slo-mo effect (and no sound).

John


----------



## Matthew_T (10 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> nah.. only one person is putting out a few videos, apart from that i've not seen anyone else using them or even talking about them.


This is the person I am subbed to:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udxd5p4k0Qc


----------



## BSRU (10 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Interesting thread here:
> http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread...S10-and-HDR-AS15-Thread-Discussion-and-Videos
> Like handlebar mounts, model planes suffer a lot of vibration and there are some clear rolling shutter (jello) effects in some of the vids shown for the Sony.
> 
> ...


Interesting discussion about the new Sony, fogging and mounting also seem to be a problem, shame there is no comparison to the ProTune GoPro HD2.


----------



## gaz (10 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> This is the person I am subbed to:
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udxd5p4k0Qc



So one person :P hardly making it popular.

Look at TV shows using action cameras for various shots and it will mostly be a gopro, a few will use contours. Now those are popular cameras.


----------



## Rezillo (10 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> So one person :P hardly making it popular.
> Look at TV shows using action cameras for various shots and it will mostly be a gopro, a few will use contours. Now those are popular cameras.


 
It's brand new - not even officially released in Europe yet and only just out in the US.

Both Contour and Gopro have market share but in comparison to the likes of JVC and Sony they are tiddlers. With the big boys stepping in, then they have cause to be worried. Contour and Gopro have gone through several models and a few years of development to get to where they are now. The early signs are that Sony has managed to produce a unit of roughly comparable quality at its very first attempt. It probably won't shift the market for a while yet and it may lose out on some features to the Gopro just now but Sony's developmental resources dwarf their rivals here.

John


----------



## gaz (10 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> It's brand new - not even officially released in Europe yet and only just out in the US.
> 
> Both Contour and Gopro have market share but in comparison to the likes of JVC and Sony they are tiddlers. With the big boys stepping in, then they have cause to be worried. Contour and Gopro have gone through several models and a few years of development to get to where they are now. The early signs are that Sony has managed to produce a unit of roughly comparable quality at its very first attempt. It probably won't shift the market for a while yet and it may lose out on some features to the Gopro just now but Sony's developmental resources dwarf their rivals here.
> 
> John


So... it's not popular yet.


----------



## Matthew_T (10 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> So one person :P hardly making it popular.


I meant popular as in everyone is talking about it. Just look at how many pages this thread has. Only one person has actually gone to the trouble to test the video quality of it and post it online.


----------



## Rezillo (10 Oct 2012)

Loads on youtube and vimeo already, though - some of which is very impressive.

Bike one here, shot near dusk:


----------



## gaz (10 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I meant popular as in everyone is talking about it. Just look at how many pages this thread has. Only one person has actually gone to the trouble to test the video quality of it and post it online.


This thread isn't just about the sony camera


----------



## Matthew_T (10 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> This thread isn't just about the sony camera


But most of the pages are about the Sony.

I have had a test of it and probably never will so I dont really have anything to add directly to the quality or value of it.


----------



## BSRU (11 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> But most of the pages are about the Sony.
> 
> I have had a test of it and probably never will so I dont really have anything to add directly to the quality or value of it.


Only the last couple of pages are about Sony as it existence was not known about until recently and probably only because it is one of the big boys getting involved.


----------



## BSRU (11 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Loads on youtube and vimeo already, though - some of which is very impressive.
> 
> Bike one here, shot near dusk:



That does look good.


----------



## gaz (17 Oct 2012)

GoPro Hero 3 - http://gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras
Black edition looks like it will be £359.
I like the features of it, 60fps at 1080p is certainly something that contour hasn't even delivered yet. Potentially looking at getting one and then using a k-edge mount on the handlebar.


----------



## BSRU (17 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> GoPro Hero 3 - http://gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras
> Black edition looks like it will be £359.
> I like the features of it, 60fps at 1080p is certainly something that contour hasn't even delivered yet. Potentially looking at getting one and then using a k-edge mount on the handlebar.


Looks like an excellent new camera and puts GoPro on top of the action camera makers again.
Contour's new release looks poor in comparison especially as they are a similar price.


----------



## benb (17 Oct 2012)

That is on the Christmas list, unless another competitor comes up with something as good.

I wouldn't fancy helmet mounting it, with that form factor, but my mount of choice is handlebars anyway.


----------



## benb (17 Oct 2012)

Any idea of the battery life with this one?


----------



## gaz (17 Oct 2012)

benb said:


> That is on the Christmas list, unless another competitor comes up with something as good.
> 
> I wouldn't fancy helmet mounting it, with that form factor, but my mount of choice is handlebars anyway.


If you are handlebar mounting it, look at the k-edge mount. The best option for GoPro - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/k-edge-go-b...o_Big_GoPro_Handlebar_Mount_Pro_Version-Black


----------



## gaz (17 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> Looks like an excellent new camera and puts GoPro on top of the action camera makers again.
> Contour's new release looks poor in comparison especially as they are a similar price.


I'm a contour fan, been using them since they where called Vholdr but they always seem to be one step behind the competition. The ROAM I thought was a brilliant camera (and it is), it fitted nicely in the market and provided great quality for a small price. The contour +, +2 and ROAM2 just seem like little additions and still lack behind the big competition.


----------



## Matthew_T (17 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> I'm a contour fan, been using them since they where called Vholdr but they always seem to be one step behind the competition. The ROAM I thought was a brilliant camera (and it is), it fitted nicely in the market and provided great quality for a small price. The contour +, +2 and ROAM2 just seem like little additions and still lack behind the big competition.


I think contour's main promblem is the lack of room for a screen. Both GoPro and Drift have (granted small) screens to playback video when it have been taken. Unless Contour try to incorporate a screen into the design (which could cause other problems like with weight and mounting) then I doubt that Contour will every of of the quality that GoPro and Drift are.
I think Drift are getting better with their designs. The model is getting smaller and they are constanty updating the software with better features.


----------



## gaz (17 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I think contour's main promblem is the lack of room for a screen. Both GoPro and Drift have (granted small) screens to playback video when it have been taken. Unless Contour try to incorporate a screen into the design (which could cause other problems like with weight and mounting) then I doubt that Contour will every of of the quality that GoPro and Drift are.
> I think Drift are getting better with their designs. The model is getting smaller and they are constanty updating the software with better features.


The screen is such a minor feature and doesn't effect the quality of the final product, which is the video. Some of the contours allow you to view a live view from a phone via bluetooth.


----------



## BSRU (17 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I think contour's main promblem is the lack of room for a screen. Both GoPro and Drift have (granted small) screens to playback video when it have been taken. Unless Contour try to incorporate a screen into the design (which could cause other problems like with weight and mounting) then I doubt that Contour will every of of the quality that GoPro and Drift are.
> I think Drift are getting better with their designs. The model is getting smaller and they are constanty updating the software with better features.


The GoPro screen is for checking/changing settings. You can buy an LCD backpack for it but it is an optional extra and it makes it bigger and heavier.


----------



## Matthew_T (17 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> The screen is such a minor feature and doesn't effect the quality of the final product, which is the video. Some of the contours allow you to view a live view from a phone via bluetooth.


I still think that screens and touch screens are what these manufacturers are focussing on for their new products. Video quality can only get so good (i.e. 1080p 60fps).
Actually, the weight of the product is probably the most important right now.


----------



## Rezillo (17 Oct 2012)

For me, desirable new features would be image stabilisation and something to minimise rolling shutter, especially at 1080p.

The JVC Adixxion claims to have both but I've not been impressed with the overall image quality of some of the user videos. The Sony has image stabilisation but nothing to counter rolling shutter. The Gopro3 has neither but its 60fps 1080p should counter rolling shutter fairly well, the downside likely to be some very large file sizes. Upping the frame rate can reduce the image quality somewhat so it will be interesting to see how the new GoPro fares with this.


----------



## gaz (17 Oct 2012)

Matthew_T said:


> I still think that screens and touch screens are what these manufacturers are focussing on for their new products. Video quality can only get so good (i.e. 1080p 60fps).
> Actually, the weight of the product is probably the most important right now.


And yet less than 5 cameras have a screen on them :P


----------



## BSRU (18 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> For me, desirable new features would be image stabilisation and something to minimise rolling shutter, especially at 1080p.
> 
> The JVC Adixxion claims to have both but I've not been impressed with the overall image quality of some of the user videos. The Sony has image stabilisation but nothing to counter rolling shutter. The Gopro3 has neither but its 60fps 1080p should counter rolling shutter fairly well, the downside likely to be some very large file sizes. Upping the frame rate can reduce the image quality somewhat so it will be interesting to see how the new GoPro fares with this.


I imagine the GoPro3 will need lots of big high speed memory cards, when I use the GoPro2 with ProTune 1080p30fps it uses 2Gb every 7 or 8 minutes, it means I need two 32Gb cards instead of just one 32Gb card to record a days commuting.
Would not be surprised in the future that a camera is released with wireless storage in a separate unit.


----------



## Davidsw8 (18 Oct 2012)

I just got a Contour Roam this week, having previously used a Veho Muvi, pro's and con's for both:

ContourRoam:

Pros: Wide angle lens (captures more content); HD (better quality); waterproof; PC access to the memory card is a lot quicker than the Veho; Very easy to change the orientation of the lens; very reliable (so far)

Cons: More expensive than the Veho; Bigger than the Veho; Have to purchase a seperate mount, the one supplied isn't great.

Veho Muvi:

Pros: Small; light; cheap

Cons: Very unreliable, failed to record approx. 1 out of 5 times; not waterproof


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

Tried out the new Sony HDR-AS15 this morning.
Despite the camera being very small and light I do not think at the moment it is suitable as a helmet camera.
Any chance of rain and you need to use the waterproof case, currently the non-waterproof mount is not available.
The waterproof case is very sturdy and well made, as is the headband mount but they are a little heavy so when the camera, case plus headband mount are combined the extra weight is noticeable, after 90 minutes riding this morning it became unpleasant.
Also Sony have seemed not to have learned from GoPro's problem with a fully enclosed waterproof case and it suffered from fogging, I do not know when it occurred, only noticed when I took the helmet off at work.
So far the comparison with my Contour+ is not favourable, the C+ is basically waterproof enough not to need it's waterproof case, so significantly lighter and no fogging problems, plus it can be mounted flat on top of the helmet, my preferred location.

As for video quality that is something for later.


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

A video show the new Sony at 720p at 120fps.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6tB3eQ9GgE


----------



## Rezillo (29 Oct 2012)

That looks pretty good - other than the known issue about accentuated blue sky. 

At least it doesn't suffer from the Contour+'s problem with blurring of grass and vegetation, something that plagued the previous gps model until fixed in firmware but still not wholly absent in the +.


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

Rezillo said:


> That looks pretty good - other than the known issue about accentuated blue sky.
> 
> At least it doesn't suffer from the Contour+'s problem with blurring of grass and vegetation, something that plagued the previous gps model until fixed in firmware but still not wholly absent in the +.


The 1080p 30fps looks excellent, unfortunately cannot produce a daylight comparison video with my C+ as the C+ had a smudged lens,some road spray I think.
But in my opinion it is superior to the C+.
Hopefully later, when the upload finishes, I will add a link for a low light comparison.
From viewing footage during editing the Sony is several leagues above the C+ in low light conditions.

There is a rumour a new Contour is out soon which is supposed to compete with the new Hero 3 black edition, hopefully it will compete on price as well as features.


----------



## gaz (29 Oct 2012)

BSRU said:


> There is a rumour a new Contour is out soon which is supposed to compete with the new Hero 3 black edition, hopefully it will compete on price as well as features.


They just released two new cameras :S


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

gaz said:


> They just released two new cameras :S


The Contour Plus 2 is not really a new camera, it is basically the Plus with new firmware and the lasers working again.
I hope the fact the Plus2 and "new" Roam are not major changes indicates that they have been working hard on a "real" new camera, something with more than 5M pixel sensor .


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

A low light comparison, the Sony is vastly superior to the Contour Plus even with the C+ settings maxed out.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sspRQL3HW-M


----------



## Oldspice (29 Oct 2012)




----------



## mr_cellophane (29 Oct 2012)

Any opinions on the HD96 Extreme ?


----------



## BSRU (29 Oct 2012)

mr_cellophane said:


> Any opinions on the HD96 Extreme ?


Looks like a nice camera, always good to have a rotating lens so it can be place flat on top of a helmet.
Does look a little big, relatively speaking and this time of year it's low light capabilities are unknown.

At that price though I might consider an EBay Sony HDR-AS10 or AS15 as a "US seller" is selling them cheaper from Brighton, UK.
My only concern is they are selling the US camera which is exactly the same but I am not sure about the Sony warranty.


----------



## BSRU (1 Nov 2012)

My review of the Sony HDR-AS15

Pros.
The video quality is excellent and watching 1080p at 30fps and 720p at 120fps is amazing.
The low light capability is exceptional, vastly superior to my GoPro Hero 2 with ProTune turned on. Since the new Hero 3 is only twice as good as a Hero 2(non-ProTune) in low light conditions then the Sony should by far the superior low light camera.
The LCD on the side makes it easy to change settings without the need for any other device.
The waterproof case is very sold and very well made(also a con).
Excellent battery life, uses a fairly standard Sony battery with OEM batteries already in existence( alot cheaper than official batteries(14 pound for two batteries and a charger)
A time indicator on the LCD to inform you of how much recording time is left on the memory card.
One button press start, press the record button and it starts recording from off in a couple of seconds, has a slider to lock start/stop button.
Seems to be pretty much firmware bug free from new(unlike GoPro's and a much lesser extent Contour).
It is perfect as a bike mounted camera.

Cons
Non-rotating lens and has to be upright, cannot be upside down.
No resistance to rain so the waterproof case is always required.
Waterproof case also required to mount it on a bike, currently no other option.
Not a helmet camera, far too heavy with the headband mount and waterproof case.(A new headband mount that holds the camera directly is not available yet and not compatible with the waterproof headband mount)
The waterproof case has a *BIG fogging* problem, anit-fog sheets not available for another three weeks(no idea if they will work).
The beeps are very quite so almost inaudible when in the waterproof case.
Just one small LED to indicate it is recording, which is difficult to see if not looking directly at the back of the camera.
The micro SDHC slot allows the user to put the memory card in upside down(at least a warning icon will flash when it is turned on, assuming you are looking at the LCD).
Cannot record and charge at the same time as no access to USB port when mounted.

Overall it has made me reconsider buying the a Hero 3 when it goes on sale, although the 2.7k recording seems very interesting and whilst waiting for Contour to bring out a new camera to match the Sony/Hero 3 I will not wait for ever and another Sony maybe be purchased.


----------



## Rezillo (1 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the review. Looks as if Sony have a good cam but need to work on their mounting systems and ports - not just usb as the external mike socket is also inaccessible with the case on.

A few questions - Will it work with a usb supply, putting aside the access issue? What is the battery life like? - you say it is excellent but what time is typical? Is there any wind noise if the case is not used? (seemed to be a lot of wind noise on one youtube video).

Thanks.


----------



## BSRU (1 Nov 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Thanks for the review. Looks as if Sony have a good cam but need to work on their mounting systems and ports - not just usb as the external mike socket is also inaccessible with the case on.
> 
> A few questions - Will it work with a usb supply, putting aside the access issue? What is the battery life like? - you say it is excellent but what time is typical? Is there any wind noise if the case is not used? (seemed to be a lot of wind noise on one youtube video).
> 
> Thanks.


I have not tried charging and recording at the same time, I will read the manual and give it a go at the weekend.
I have not tried a battery test, hopefully again I will try at the weekend. The longest ride I have used it for in 1080p/30fps mode is 1hr 45mins.The problem being if the battery runs out whilst riding I have know way of knowing, the beeps are too quiet and recording led is to small.
I have not really checked wind noise as it is in the case and I know the sound will be muffled, plus when using it at 720p/120fps no sound is recorded.


----------



## Rezillo (1 Nov 2012)

BSRU said:


> I have not tried charging and recording at the same time, I will read the manual and give it a go at the weekend.
> I have not tried a battery test, hopefully again I will try at the weekend. The longest ride I have used it for in 1080p/30fps mode is 1hr 45mins.The problem being if the battery runs out whilst riding I have know way of knowing, the beeps are too quiet and recording led is to small.
> I have not really checked wind noise as it is in the case and I know the sound will be muffled, plus when using it at 720p/120fps no sound is recorded.


 
Thanks - nearly two hours, and possibly more, at 1080p is good.


----------



## BSRU (2 Nov 2012)

I used the Sony camera for 2hrs and 10mins today using 1080p at 30fps, still a little battery power left but not much.


----------



## cloggsy (2 Nov 2012)

Isn't there a camera that has just been released which does 1080p at 60fps?


----------



## Rezillo (2 Nov 2012)

The new Gopro Black Edition does 1080p at 60fps. It is, however, £365.

The Sony AS10 (non-wifi version of AS15) is £130 delivered on Ebay. I've gone for it - BSRU's review and the quality of online videos made a good case, imho. I'm sure I can bodge some mount variations for it


----------



## BSRU (3 Nov 2012)

Rezillo said:


> The new Gopro Black Edition does 1080p at 60fps. It is, however, £365.
> 
> The Sony AS10 (non-wifi version of AS15) is £130 delivered on Ebay. I've gone for it - BSRU's review and the quality of online videos made a good case, imho. I'm sure I can bodge some mount variations for it


For such a high quality camera it's a real bargain at that price, I'm almost tempted myself.


----------



## gaz (3 Nov 2012)

BSRU said:


> For such a high quality camera it's a real bargain at that price, I'm almost tempted myself.


I'm extremely tempted!


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (3 Nov 2012)

Not the point really,the point is battery life,water proofness and ease of fitting.Don't want a camera too bulky,plus quality of course.The GoPro's on the tour lasted about two and a half hours and that was it.No good for long rides but ok for commuting I guess.I have one cam but it seems too bulky wired and too fiddly to fit on a helmet.Need something which takes two AA or maybe two AAA would be better instead of rubbish internal batteries which wear out.

No,im not happy with the go pro's,I have enough junk on my handlebars and I saw first hand on the tour how effective they were for recording all day although the quality was very good.

The best I have seen is this,with the possibility of spare batteries and waterproofness.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATERPROO...ctronics_Video_Camcorders&hash=item46098d0114


----------



## cloggsy (3 Nov 2012)

Miquel In De Rain said:


> The best I have seen is this,with the possibility of spare batteries and waterproofness.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATERPROO...ctronics_Video_Camcorders&hash=item46098d0114


 
I've got one of these. Unfortunately the video quality isn't that great IMHO...

This one however is much better:

http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2012/1/8/the-rd32ii-1080p-h264-sport-cam.html


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (3 Nov 2012)

cloggsy said:


> I've got one of these. Unfortunately the video quality isn't that great IMHO...
> 
> This one however is much better:
> 
> http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2012/1/8/the-rd32ii-1080p-h264-sport-cam.html


 
Thanks,I looked at my one I found but I couldn't find any spare batteries anyway.Couldn't be bothered to ask the seller.

Your one,I have a similar build of that camera and it has never worked well.Internal battery non removable also.


----------



## BSRU (3 Nov 2012)

Some comparison videos of YouTube

Sony V Hero 2

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR0jD56xHsQ


Sony V Hero 3 Black
Low light

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f8H4QELnrc

Daytime

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR00LcjXH6A

General

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQYk-Vuf_I


Reinforces my view not to bother with the GoPro 3 Black, especially this time of year.


----------



## gaz (3 Nov 2012)

The Sony looks stunning in those night shots. however it appears to have a bad fisheye and the lack of mounts is a deal breaker for me at this moment in time.


----------



## BSRU (3 Nov 2012)

gaz said:


> The Sony looks stunning in those night shots. however it appears to have a bad fisheye and the lack of mounts is a deal breaker for me at this moment in time.


I had not noticed any problems with fish eye when reviewing my own footage, although until yesterday I have been using the image stabilisation which limits the FOV to 120.
Bike mounting is not a problem for me as I have RAM with a camera tripod mount for both front and rear cameras.
I really want a similar quality camera that is suited to being mounted flat on top of a helmet. My Contour Plus is becoming more and more useless this time of year, by the time next year it can be used it will have been made obsolete by a replacement.


----------



## Rezillo (6 Nov 2012)

Well, my Ebay AS10 arrived today. Brand new factory sealed box and all appears to be working ok but I won't get a chance to use it on a bike for a few days. The case will screw directly onto my existing bar mount as that uses a standard camera mount screw.

Couple of things that immediately impress - picture quality, especially 720p which is streets ahead of the Contour+, and the ability to set a 120 or 170 degree field of view (might interest Gaz in view of his comment above). Steadyshot sets it to 120 degrees regardless. I'm going to try 120 without steadyshot but I suspect I may get some rolling shutter effect on a bar mount.

Youtube vids have some rattles on audio which seemed to be blamed on the case. I put the camera in its case and shook it - there was a small but noticeable rattle. It was actually the battery rattling slightly in its cradle - a couple of pieces of soft insulating tape on the side of the battery facing the cradle stopped that but I don't know yet how the audio will be for sure.


----------



## BSRU (6 Nov 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Well, my Ebay AS10 arrived today. Brand new factory sealed box and all appears to be working ok but I won't get a chance to use it on a bike for a few days. The case will screw directly onto my existing bar mount as that uses a standard camera mount screw.
> 
> Couple of things that immediately impress - picture quality, especially 720p which is streets ahead of the Contour+, and the ability to set a 120 or 170 degree field of view (might interest Gaz in view of his comment above). Steadyshot sets it to 120 degrees regardless. I'm going to try 120 without steadyshot but I suspect I may get some rolling shutter effect on a bar mount.
> 
> Youtube vids have some rattles on audio which seemed to be blamed on the case. I put the camera in its case and shook it - there was a small but noticeable rattle. It was actually the battery rattling slightly in its cradle - a couple of pieces of soft insulating tape on the side of the battery facing the cradle stopped that but I don't know yet how the audio will be for sure.


Best thing for me is the low light performance, especially this time of year on roads with little or poor street lighting.


----------



## gaz (9 Nov 2012)

Spectacam - two way helmet camera


----------



## cloggsy (9 Nov 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Well, my Ebay AS10 arrived today. Brand new factory sealed box and all appears to be working ok but I won't get a chance to use it on a bike for a few days.


 
I for one would be interested in seeing the results; especially in low light conditions...


----------



## Rezillo (9 Nov 2012)

cloggsy said:


> I for one would be interested in seeing the results; especially in low light conditions...


 
To avoid monopolising this thread with one camera discussion, I've done a first impressions post in the Reviews section and hope others will join in. I'll try to post some links next week to some (very brief) raw clips. At the moment, all my footage is from very dull days, which is not ideal.

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-sony-action-cam-as10-as15-review-and-users-thread.117359/


----------



## Kookas (9 Nov 2012)

Anyone heard of Google's upcoming smart glasses? They have a camera in and support for live streaming. Think they would make for a pretty good cycle cam.


----------



## gaz (15 Nov 2012)

A duel recording camera from Oregeon Scientific (this means it's crap)
http://gizmodo.com/5960519/a-sports-cam-with-eyes-on-the-back-of-its-head-captures-twice-the-action


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (15 Nov 2012)

Internal battery is always a bad idea unless it can easily be replaced.
Waterproof also.


----------



## Recycle (15 Nov 2012)

gaz said:


> Spectacam - two way helmet camera


That may be quite a good concept for a recumbent if you could create a rigid bar style mount above the headrest. I don't know how well it would work on a helmet because the head orientation may direct the front facing cam where you want, but you may not get the footage you want from the back facing cam.


----------



## Recycle (15 Nov 2012)

There are a few lowlight comparisons between the Sony & the Hero 3 Black on YouTube. The GoPro appears to come out tops on image quality but the Sony is tops on lowlight. I'm leaning towards the Sony. IMO lowlight is more important, especially on a winter commute and the Sony image quality is pretty good anyway.


----------



## cloggsy (15 Nov 2012)

Recycle said:


> IMO lowlight is more important, especially on a winter commute and the Sony image quality is pretty good anyway.


 
+1 Looks an awesome camera!


----------



## benb (20 Nov 2012)

Review of a camera called the "Foolish".
Would like to know what the low light footage is like.
http://road.cc/content/review/70700-nilox-foolish-hd-camera


----------



## Recycle (20 Nov 2012)

benb said:


> Review of a camera called the "Foolish".
> Would like to know what the low light footage is like.
> http://road.cc/content/review/70700-nilox-foolish-hd-camera


Yes, good point. I left a comment on their website.


----------



## Recycle (25 Nov 2012)

This is a question for those that have both front and back facing camera's.
If one camera produces a lower quality image, in which direction would you face the the camera that records the higher quality?

Intuitively I would say forward to film the direction of travel, but I'm not so sure. Most of my incidences seem to be close passes and a rear facing camera may be better to capture the lead up to the pass. Also, if the pass results in contact, the forward facing camera may not get anything if you are knocked off the bike.


----------



## gaz (25 Nov 2012)

The importance with a rear facing camera is getting part of your bike in and getting a good solid fixture to the bike. So choose the one which is best to fix to the frame and gets either you or your wheel in the picture.

Having part of your bike in the picture gives context as to how close people get to you.


----------



## TheLondonCyclist (25 Nov 2012)

gaz said:


> A duel recording camera from Oregeon Scientific (this means it's crap)
> http://gizmodo.com/5960519/a-sports-cam-with-eyes-on-the-back-of-its-head-captures-twice-the-action


That looks cool. Maybe GoPro will release one like that for the HERO4.


----------



## Wilsy27 (29 Nov 2012)

What's everyone's opinion on the best low light camera, currently have the chilli tech HD cam from maplin, it's not bad but 1st winter using it and would prefer better results for next year and wondered what you all thought was best? Cheaper would be better but this is for next winter


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (30 Nov 2012)

Bet the battery is good then gets worse with use.I had a few of these,they don't last forever.


----------



## cloggsy (30 Nov 2012)

Rezillo said:


> Well, my Ebay AS10 arrived today.


 
+1!

Looking forward to having a play later


----------



## cloggsy (2 Dec 2012)

These look very interesting!


----------



## gaz (2 Dec 2012)

cloggsy said:


> These look very interesting!



Certainly the best quality sunglasses camera out there.
Still limited by memory size and a secure fit will be required for a good picture.


----------



## cloggsy (3 Dec 2012)

gaz said:


> Certainly the best quality sunglasses camera out there.


 
I thought so...


----------



## beanzontoast (11 Dec 2012)

Just been reading about the Contour Roam / Roam 2 and I'm wondering about the battery which I understand is not user replaceable. (Their website mentions a future arrangement for sending the camera back to Contour to have the battery replaced).

Can anyone tell me whether they power their Contour Roam from an external battery via the USB port while riding? If so, where do you keep the battery and does having the USB lead attached affect the weatherproofing to any great extent?


----------



## BSRU (11 Dec 2012)

beanzontoast said:


> Just been reading about the Contour Roam / Roam 2 and I'm wondering about the battery which I understand is not user replaceable. (Their website mentions a future arrangement for sending the camera back to Contour to have the battery replaced).
> 
> Can anyone tell me whether they power their Contour Roam from an external battery via the USB port while riding? If so, where do you keep the battery and does having the USB lead attached affect the weatherproofing to any great extent?


You should note that Contour in their infinite wisdom have wired the USB port so that you need a non-standard USB cable in order to power it and record at the same time.


----------



## beanzontoast (11 Dec 2012)

BSRU said:


> You should note that Contour in their infinite wisdom have wired the USB port so that you need a non-standard USB cable in order to power it and record at the same time.


 
Thanks for the info. So, sounds like it is meant to be possible to do the external battery thing then?

The Contour 2 seems to be out of stock in a few places. Looks like it was on some people's Christmas wish lists!


----------



## cloggsy (18 Dec 2012)

The Sony AS-10 is now only £104 on eBay!


----------



## Miquel In De Rain (18 Dec 2012)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Snowboard...ctronics_Video_Camcorders&hash=item1c2dc4cf78

Im going to get these,im gonna look cool up the high road.


----------



## BSRU (18 Dec 2012)

cloggsy said:


> The Sony AS-10 is now only £104 on eBay!


Even more of a bargain


----------



## cloggsy (14 Jan 2013)

Having now used my Sony AS-10 I am absolutely thrilled with its 'low-light' capabilities.

Well worth the money IMHO!


----------



## BSRU (14 Jan 2013)

cloggsy said:


> Having now used my Sony AS-10 I am absolutely thrilled with its 'low-light' capabilities.
> 
> Well worth the money IMHO!


It is an absolute steal, made my other cameras redundant.


----------



## wintonbina (14 Jan 2013)

cloggsy said:


> The Sony AS-10 is now only £104 on eBay![/quote
> Sale ended!


----------



## BSRU (14 Jan 2013)

That is a shame, but Amazon have the AS15 for sale at £210.


----------



## lozcs (14 Jan 2013)

how did I miss this...


----------



## jarlrmai (14 Jan 2013)

Is the 15 the WiFi one?


----------



## benb (14 Jan 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> Is the 15 the WiFi one?


Yes. Odd that I can't find the AS10 on sale anywhere.


----------



## BSRU (14 Jan 2013)

benb said:


> Yes. Odd that I can't find the AS10 on sale anywhere.


The AS10 is not officially available in the UK.


----------



## cloggsy (15 Jan 2013)

benb said:


> Yes. Odd that I can't find the AS10 on sale anywhere.


eBay may be your friend here... May be work contacting the seller (in my link above)?


----------



## dave2041 (28 Feb 2014)

Bumping an oldish thread... Thinking of picking up an AS10 as my new helmet camera, but it doesn't look like there is a way to mount it flat on top of my head the same as my contourHD 1080p any AS10 users have an opinion on this? I was thinking of using the contour as a rear facing cam if i got the AS10.


----------



## BSRU (28 Feb 2014)

dave2041 said:


> Bumping an oldish thread... Thinking of picking up an AS10 as my new helmet camera, but it doesn't look like there is a way to mount it flat on top of my head the same as my contourHD 1080p any AS10 users have an opinion on this? I was thinking of using the contour as a rear facing cam if i got the AS10.


I have both, the Sony does not have a rotating lens like the Contour, so cannot be laid flat on top of the helmet(well it can but the image will be on it's side).


----------



## dave2041 (28 Feb 2014)

Ah Thanks, so how do you have yours mounted?


----------



## BSRU (28 Feb 2014)

dave2041 said:


> Ah Thanks, so how do you have yours mounted?


On the side using the Sony waterproof headband mount, VCT-GM1.
There is another headband mount which holds the camera itself without the need for the waterproof case. BLT-HB1.


----------

