# Vintage Bates - largely finished, but still some question marks!



## GrahamG (18 Nov 2009)

Thought I'd post this up for the vintage lovers, it's a little bit mysterious in that it's a BAR model (the enthusiast who supplied the transfers has the original order book it would seem) finished in flamboyant green and supplied to a dealer in N.Yorks IIRC in 1957. However I've not seen this model with track ends and the mudguard eyelets are in the wrong place at the rear for a Bates so it's a little odd (bearing in mind that it has never been re-finished) - custom order with it spec'd this way perhaps? I'd be interested in opinions. It didn't have a deraileur hanger but it did have a d/t stop and cable guide on BB shell, however these were brazed on quite crudely so I can't believe that this came from the factory like that. Perhaps it was modded and refinished quite early on in its life.

Anyway, it looked like this when I got it:






Finish still looked green on the fork steerer hence I'm assuming that the original finish. It needed new pencil seat-stays, which I fortunately was able to find NOS, and then just a bit of TLC including: building up fork crown (it was worn away), reaming seat tube (seat lug a little deformed), filing out dropouts to take modern 10mm axles, check tracking, and filling a few dents. Decided to keep it totally original in terms of chroming, colour and transfers etc. but build it up with modernish components so that I can ride it without worries about reliability and things like brakes being woefully inadequate for todays traffic levels.

Kit fitted as follows:

Wheels are DIY build using NOS rigida rims (27" alu), on sys-ex track hubs with DT double butted spokes.
NOS Sugino 48t fixed ring crankset & BB
Random seatpost (note purple seatclamp for hipster style bling!)
Selle regal saddle
Tange steel headset
Nitto randonneur bars and technomic stem (not on photo)
Cheapo old style levers with new cane creek replacement hoods
Campag brakes (possibly record?) with 43-53mm shallow drop - not much clearance even with 27"x1" tyres which leads me to think that maybe it was built for sprints? 
Finally, MKS pedals/clips/straps, KMC-510 chain, EAI 19t sprocket.

Got the brakes and cabling (white outers!) installed last night and there's some faux leather white bar tape (Charge) to be fitted this evening.


























The ride is something special - not at all what you'd expect from a 50 year old frame. It's a very stiff frame that invites you to ride hard and the steering is responsive to match, it's not far off riding a far more modern geometry frame but steering still relaxed enough to feel at ease with gentle pootling.


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## raindog (18 Nov 2009)

Very nice indeed, that's a superb rebuild. Strange it's got mudguard eyes when there's no guard clearance - as you say, it must be a pure track frame modified early on for road use. And I've just noticed the lamp bracket boss!!!
How do you go on for modern hub width fitting into old dropouts? I've got an old track frame I'd like to use, but it's difficult trying to get modern wheels to fit.
I like the bars.


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## GrahamG (18 Nov 2009)

Would a track frame still have the lamp boss? BB height with the 27"x1" tyres is just about 11" but that would come down at least 3/8" with a set of sprints and slender tubs.

Fork width was fine (probably a couple of mm under 100mm), rear was cold set to 120mm from 110mm and then it was just a case of filing out the dropouts so they'd take the thicker modern axles.

The bars are great for me as the flare raises them up a little higher than the stem at the hoods - I have long legs compared to my body/arms and it can be difficult to get the bars up high enough for me as a result!


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## summerdays (18 Nov 2009)

I looks lovely .... but it has strange front forks (as someone who doesn't know anything about those sort of things). I'm just amazed its the same bike... its fantastic that you have breathed some life into it.

How long did the project take?


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## owpman (18 Nov 2009)

*wow*

beautiful build! the frame looks amazing, i really like the lug lining and pinstripe, if you dont mind me asking (it feel kind of like asking a lady how old she is lol) is it your own handy work or who/where can take credit?


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## threebikesmcginty (18 Nov 2009)

Lovely bike - really nice work!


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## GrahamG (18 Nov 2009)

summerdays said:


> I looks lovely .... but it has strange front forks (as someone who doesn't know anything about those sort of things). I'm just amazed its the same bike... its fantastic that you have breathed some life into it.
> 
> How long did the project take?



The repairs/re-finish took 6 months as I told them that I wasn't in any hurry! Took a good couple of months to get all the components together for it and build wheels.



owpman said:


> beautiful build! the frame looks amazing, i really like the lug lining and pinstripe, if you dont mind me asking (it feel kind of like asking a lady how old she is lol) is it your own handy work or who/where can take credit?



Argos cycles here in Bristol - it's a good job and no way I could have done any of it!


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## Arch (18 Nov 2009)

Lovely! Very smart indeed.

Do you keep that bit of plain wall just for photographing bikes against?


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## dan_bo (18 Nov 2009)

that's a bee-yewt.


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## GrahamG (18 Nov 2009)

Arch said:


> Lovely! Very smart indeed.
> 
> Do you keep that bit of plain wall just for photographing bikes against?



I have to take down the lady's batik before taking photos!

Here's the final shot now I've got bar tape on and brakes etc. installed:






Few more at http://www.phlegmband.co.uk/BatesBAR.html

So gutted that it's too miserable out to ride it!


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## brokenbetty (18 Nov 2009)

ooooo beeyooootiful!

If the clearance is tight on 27" tyres maybe it was built for 26" x 1 1/2 ?


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## summerdays (18 Nov 2009)

Really looks nice. Not that I'm trying to purchase it... (you are mad enough wanting to ride it on the hills round here) but what sort of value does a bike have once it is restored beautifully? I mean if it was stolen what would the insurance payout be for example - is it just the sum of parts?


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## GrahamG (19 Nov 2009)

Thank you, ladies. 

I dare say that it would have to simply be valued in terms of the parts - it's still probably worth less than it would cost for an equivalent quality new replacement, doubt it has any real value as an antiquity. This was considered before I took it in for refurb; I built it up and put a few hundred miles on it to see if it was right for me as I knew I'd be spending far more than it was worth, it's a little personal indulgence justified by the feel-good factor of having my little piece of British cycling history.... even if it is decked out in mostly Japanese components


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## swee'pea99 (19 Nov 2009)

Nice job! Bloody hell! Who'd have thunk that was in there, just waiting to get out? 

I have to say, mind, I really don't like those forks. Sorry. That kink just looks...wrong somehow.

Other than that, lovely! Slender, clean..such elegant geometry.


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## MajorMantra (19 Nov 2009)

That's beautiful Graham! And those forks are amazing.

Which white outers did you used? I still haven't found any cheap ones...

Matthew


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## GrahamG (19 Nov 2009)

MajorMantra said:


> That's beautiful Graham! And those forks are amazing.
> 
> Which white outers did you used? I still haven't found any cheap ones...
> 
> Matthew



I got a NOS shimano SLR brake cable set off ebay and also a few metres of old brake outer from a shop - glad I got the ebay set as the shops stuff was awful; you could probably fit two inner cables through it and it wasn't particularly flexible. I found it ridiculously hard to find white cable, although that was partially due to my not wanting to use Goodridge (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=23407) as it's more akin to rod than cable!


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## GrahamG (19 Nov 2009)

[quote name='swee'pea99']Nice job! Bloody hell! Who'd have thunk that was in there, just waiting to get out? 

I have to say, mind, I really don't like those forks. Sorry. That kink just looks...wrong somehow.

Other than that, lovely! Slender, clean..such elegant geometry.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean, they're a bit marmite, but for me the forks and cantiflex tubing (a proprietry 531 tube profile made specially for Bates by reynolds) are what make it unique against all the other classic lightweights. The forks are very much just an aesthetic thing like the Hetchins curly stays, however the tubing has a big impact on stiffness of the frame hence the ride is so much like a more modern
frame.


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## tyred (19 Nov 2009)

Absolutely stunning. Well done sir!


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## longers (19 Nov 2009)

Beautiful job, well done with that Mr G.


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## ACS (19 Nov 2009)

Many have said it, and who am I to disagree. Work of art.


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## postman (20 Nov 2009)

Postmans late as usual.

Stunning what a beautiful finish.


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## Chappy (25 Nov 2009)

That is a lovely bike great job.


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## TheCyclingRooster (9 Dec 2009)

Hi Graham G,also to you all out there.What a sight for sore eyes,stunning clean lines.A Work of Art fit for the focal wall in the home.Nice non fussy lugwork and equisite double boxed lining and lined lugs.A sin to take it out only to muck it up,if not the roads then the sweaty mitts of admirers wanting to paw it for the tactile pleasure.On a personal note,my only suggestion would be a pair of Marcel Berthet Lyotard Platform Pedals,(I still ride them)rapid entry,neat with Christophe Clips and Straps.My old cycle pal had a Bates like yours & I had a Hetchins Curly,what a duo on the road.Happy & Safe Riding to you All.


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## Sharky (5 Jun 2019)

Just come across this thread. I'm riding a Bates BAR model in my avatar picture. It came with horizontal fwd rear ends, but without an integrated gear hanger. Used a bolt on hanger.

Had it from '64 to '67 when I sold it for a more "modern" bike with alloy components and sprint rims. But something I've always regretted as the Bates was a really special ride.


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