# Concerns of an unfit person



## tpw123 (30 Oct 2013)

I've been near to sedentary for a long time and have recently started cycling to hopefully regain some form of fitness and lose some weight. I'm currently 172lbs and I'm 5'7". My fitness feels to me to be about as bad as it can get, I started cycling 2.5K daily (close to nothing, I'm aware) and have just upped it to 5K a day. Here's my concern; my thighs/legs in general start to ache an absolute ton after even a couple of minutes of cycling. It doesn't seem like any kind of long term endurance makes them ache, they just start to hurt almost immediately, and it gets really, really tiresome when I'm on ANY kind of incline. It's like even the slight strain of pedalling the bike is making my muscles feel as though I'm doing some kind of hardcore resistance exercise, it's terribly annoying. I know a lot of people who are recently restarting some kind of exercise complain that they feel just awful, but I'm really concerned that something else is going on here. The distances I'm going are low, it's not like I'm *hugely *overweight and I'm only 23. Does anyone have any information/advice to impart?


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## snorri (30 Oct 2013)

Welcome to the forum tpw123 
I would suggest forgetting about distance travelled for just now and concentrate more on time on the bike. Get out more than once a day, if you can, and try to arrange it so that you get home _before _ suffering pain.
After a few, lets say 20 minute rides, you could try 25 minute rides, continue gradually upping the time on the bike, and you will know in your own mind when to start considering mileage and speed.
How come a 23 year old in the UK is expressing himself in imperial measures? I was converted to metric a lot more than 23 years ago


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## vickster (30 Oct 2013)

If your legs hurt that much that quickly, is the saddle far too low. On the saddle, Your leg should be slightly bent when your heel is on the pedal at the bottom stroke. You may not be able to reach the ground, you may feel high in the air, but that's as it should be, your legs and knees will that you. Are you in the right gear so you spin rather than grind the pedals round...ignore this if riding fixed (chapeau if you are)

Keep at it


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## Kies (30 Oct 2013)

Also check you are sitting on the bike correctly with the saddle set to the correct height. Just google "bike fit" for pages of information.
After that just spend time as and when you can in the saddle. The fitness will come, but after years of sedantry living, the body takes time to adjust.


Edit: SNAP Vickster


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## Dusty Bin (30 Oct 2013)

vickster said:


> On the saddle, Your leg should be slightly bent when your heel is on the pedal at the bottom stroke.



As a rule, if your heel is on the pedal then your leg should be straight - the idea being that when the front of your foot is on the pedal, your leg will be slightly bent. Heel on pedal with a bent leg will mean that the saddle still ends up being too low...


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## ColinJ (30 Oct 2013)

We all have to start from where we are - I could hardly walk up my stairs after a ride when I first started cycling up here in Yorkshire.

How would you feel if you walked 5 km? The reason I'm asking is if you can walk that distance ok then you should be fine riding it. If walking is ok but cycling isn't then you either have the wrong size bike, the right size bike but not set up correctly, are overgeared, or are trying to ride too fast. If you _can't_ walk 5 kms without problems, then you are just unfit and need to keep working at it. It is surprising how quickly you can build up some fitness if you do stick at it.

Good luck!


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## Nigel-YZ1 (30 Oct 2013)

I'll echo the comments about the fit and setup of the bike.
Once all that's sorted it is a case of patience to meet you expectations. Just keep the gears relatively low, take your time, and don't set any big targets. The rest will follow.

Have fun


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## BigonaBianchi (31 Oct 2013)

yep...get your position sorted...easy does it, its not a race, just keep riding and never stop, all will then be good.


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## Hill Wimp (31 Oct 2013)

Well done for posting, for getting on that bike and for asking.

It will take a while but what is the rush? This is something that can help you with that weight loss, can help get you fit and will get you out there in the fresh air.

I echo the words above about bike fit etc thats important and will make a lot of difference but especially about time in the saddle. Don't get hung up on mileage, time or speed. Get out there and enjoy your ride. Ride 5 miles then have a rest, take in the scenery, have a cup of tea and then ride a few more before you head for home. 

The more you enjoy the experience of riding and all that comes with it the longer you are likely to keep doing it.

Good luck with your journey, enjoy the ride,keep us posted and take some pictures of your ride and post in the your ride today thread . Don't forget to ask any questions either.


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## screenman (31 Oct 2013)

What gear are you using when riding?


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## welsh dragon (31 Oct 2013)

Hi. Welcome from powys. Everyone above has given you good advise and I can't add anything. All I can say is, take they're advise then take things nice and slow. How far you go isnt important. Even if you can only go from one end of the road to the next that's fine. You have to start somewhere. Gradually you will be able to go further.

Don't get disheartened. You will get better.


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## srw (31 Oct 2013)

Rest. Achy muscles are a tired muscles. Rest them for a day to give them a chance to recover - that's when the benefit accrues.


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## Sittingduck (31 Oct 2013)

Must be a setup issue if it's painful after a mile or two.


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## BigonaBianchi (31 Oct 2013)

Sittingduck said:


> Must be a setup issue if it's painful after a mile or two.


So I keep telling myself !


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## byegad (31 Oct 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> As a rule, if your heel is on the pedal then your leg should be straight - the idea being that when the front of your foot is on the pedal, your leg will be slightly bent. Heel on pedal with a bent leg will mean that the saddle still ends up being too low...



Totally agree after doing this you may eventually move the saddle a little further up or a touch down but this is the ideal. A low saddle makes legs ache like mad!


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2013)

Good for getting started!
My additional advice is to start-off slowly in an easy gear. Your body will take a bit of time to adapt to the sudden increase in effort, i.e for the heart, lungs and muscles to fire themselves up to a higher work rate. I'm 50, 90kg with a heart condition and a regular cyclists since a kid, it still takes me around 15 minutes gentle spinning to warm-up and to get up to speed.
Inclines - just take gently.
Frequency, get out as often as you can, but don't overdo it. If you feel tired then take a rest for a day. Most of all, make cycling enjoyable, not a chore, find nice routes and enjoy your freedom!
The fitness will build quickly on a bike.
Also ... make sure the tyres are properly inflated, this makes a big difference to effort.
Walk. OK, seems obvious, but more walking when you can will again contribute to fitness building, walk to the shops, walk more in the office, up stairs, instead of elevators, it's surprising how much little bits of extra exercise we can fit into a normal day ... and it all counts!

Welcome ... and Enjoy!


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## Crankarm (1 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> As a rule, if your heel is on the pedal then your leg should be straight - the idea being that when the front of your foot is on the pedal, your leg will be slightly bent. Heel on pedal with a bent leg will mean that the saddle still ends up being too low...



Nope, heel on pedal at bottom of pedal stroke, leg should NOT be straight but v v slightly bent so knee joint is not locked out straight.


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## steve52 (1 Nov 2013)

Crankarm said:


> I'm not in doubt so I don't need to google it. Not everything on Google is right you know. I am right.


 i too go heel on pedal and leg striaght so when the toe is on the knee dosent lock


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## Crankarm (1 Nov 2013)

steve52 said:


> i too go heel on pedal and leg striaght so when the toe is on the knee dosent lock



If this works for you fine. Do you get leg injuries at all? What sort of terrain, distances and frequency do you ride?


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## Saluki (1 Nov 2013)

Hi & Welcome.

I can only echo the advice of the others on here. Bike fit is really important as they have said.
What sort of bike do you have?


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## Herzog (1 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> No - with your heel on the pedal, convention is that your leg should be straight. Just google it if in doubt.


 
Agree, numerous club coaches have advocated this method...works for me!


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## Rob3rt (2 Nov 2013)

The method is a pretty good baseline for many people, but those with small or large feet may find that it doesn't work well. Regardless though, you will end up fine tuning things a bit over time.

Mod Edited


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## Chris-H (2 Nov 2013)

Crankarm said:


> I'm not in doubt so I don't need to google it. Not everything on Google is right you know. I am right.


 I've had 2 professional bike fits over the past 3 years and both times my bike was set up as Dusty describes, if heel is on the pedal then the leg is straight.


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## jazzkat (2 Nov 2013)

good on you for making a start!
Loads of good advice here already, just stick at it. I used to be a sporadic rider. I'd ride three or four times a week for months then stop only to start again a few months later. It used to kill me starting back again. Sore legs, lowest gear on my mountain bike grinding up hills, lol! Stick at it, it will get easier, you may begin to enjoy the, er, how can I put it, the enjoyment of suffering on a bike!
No, seriously, enjoy your rides, take in the scenery, the fresh air - that's what it's about.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Nov 2013)

Always found this the most sensible article on bike fit for the average rider ....
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm


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## Linford (2 Nov 2013)

My LBS gave the advice 'Heel on the pedal with a straight leg' If you do this, you are going to be fairly close. You may need to track the seat back or forward on its rails a few millimetres , and you may find that the bars may need re-positioning forward or backwards with the substitution of a new stem to get a spot on bike setup 

Correct setup makes a world of difference.


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## Crankarm (2 Nov 2013)

Chris-H said:


> I've had 2 professional bike fits over the past 3 years and both times my bike was set up as Dusty describes, if heel is on the pedal then the leg is straight.



And did the fit make you a professional rider? No, I thought not. Anyone can stick a sign up stating "Professional bike fitter". If it worked for you great. How much did it cost you?


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## jay clock (2 Nov 2013)

in response to the actual post rather than the side show argument, you state you are hugely overweight. Your BMI suggests otherwise as you are only at 26.9, so overweight. Mine is 28.5 and I managed an Ironman perfectly ok on that in July. Would prefer to be lighter of course. But your pain is likely about bike fit, not weight


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## Tyke (3 Nov 2013)

I agree with the advice 'Heel on the pedal with a straight leg' If you do this as a starting point and then adjust in small increments until you are comfortable you wont go far wrong. Its worked for me for the last 50 odd years, unless I`m doing it wrong. You also need to think about bar hight and reach.


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## vickster (3 Nov 2013)

tpw123 said:


> The distances I'm going are low, it's not like I'm *hugely *overweight and I'm only 23. Does anyone have any information/advice to impart?



@jay clock , he says it's *not* like he is hugely overweight in the OP and correct. He is quite short though


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## jay clock (3 Nov 2013)

vickster said:


> @jay clock , he says it's *not* like he is hugely overweight in the OP and correct. He is quite short though


fair comment! I misread it....


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## tpw123 (7 Nov 2013)

Hey everyone, thanks for such a large volume of helpful replies. All of you are pointing towards the fit of the bike but I was sure to google that stuff before I started and sorted it out so that my knee is slightly bent when at the bottom of a revolution (using the foot to on the pedal, if that's of any relevance)?

The bike is definitely too big for me altogether, but I cannot afford to replace it, which is why I'm making do with the saddle adjustments, but still feel the pain.

@ColinJ As to the question of wether I could walk 5KM without feeling pain, yes. Or atleast I may feel some slight ache in my calves after walking that distance, but it's nowhere near as severe as the pain I'm describing in this thread that I get in my thighs. It's as if walking is of pedestrian (no pun intended, lol) intensity to me, but the struggle of turning the pedals on my bike when there's anything that even remotely resembles an incline is wearing my legs out like I'm doing squats or something. It's ridiculous.

@screenman On what gears I use, my bike has 3 front gears and 7 back ones, it's an off-road bike rather than a road bike, and I tend to use the 2nd front gear and 3/4th gear for most of my ride... none of it is especially hilly(as far as I'm aware), although it sure feels like it is.

I know ofcourse that poor fit can cause pain, but I just wouldnt expect it to be so sudden and after such little work since poor fit is more of a posture issue, no? So pedalling for a kilometre, even if the fit were somewhat off, shouldn't be leading to my thighs aching and cramping. Seems a bit extreme to be a fit issue, but what do I know?

Just to shed a little light on exactly why I'm concerned, I know an unfit person should and will feel the trials of their physical condition, but the amount of pedalling I have to do before I feel the pain is definitely worrying little. My main concern is that I could have some kind of circulation problem and my muscles are cramping under any kind of load that isn't just very, very low intensity. I intend to ask my doctor before anyone mentions that, it's just I felt I'd also post here. 

Thanks, and sorry for my slow response, I forgot I registered and posted if I'm being honest!


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## vickster (7 Nov 2013)

What gears are you using? What sort of bike is it? It's not the same, but do you get the same issues on an exercise bike that is properly adjusted?

Try adding in other exercise to the cycling such as walking and swimming


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## Hip Priest (7 Nov 2013)

I can't help but feel that it's a bike fit issue. When I took up cycling I was 8 years older than you, much heavier than you (still am!) and very unfit, but I never experienced the cramping you describe until I got my first road bike and went out with the saddle too low. It kills the thighs.

A quick stop and a spin of a hex key, and the pain was gone.

Is there any way you could ask a friend or family member to take a photo of you on the bike so we can have a look at your position?


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## jay clock (7 Nov 2013)

In terms of gears you may be pushing too "big" a gear. If you have three rings in the front and 7 on the back, start off in smallest front and biggest rear. On a flattish road that will feel ridiculously easy. SO change the back one down a couple of cogs. Keeping doing that no further than cog 5 or 6 on the back and aim to be spinning at about 100 pedal revs per min. It may feel like a fast mad pace but is more efficient

Once you get to 5/6 on th back, if you still are spinning like a dervish then change the front gears to the middle ring, and the back to the biggest. see how it feels.

Just count each time one of your feet passes the top. If you are doing say 60rpm you will find it tough. About 85-95rpm should be doable and is more efficient. I liken it to lifting cement. Could you lift 100kg? No, you would be knackered. Not 50, nor 20, even 10 would be tough. 5kg might be comfortable. So use your gears to replicate this. Lifting 5kg 20 times will be much easier than 100kg in one go.

Oh, and pump tyres to the max


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## Dusty Bin (7 Nov 2013)

jay clock said:


> Oh, and pump tyres to the max



you were doing fine, until you typed that.


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## Scoosh (7 Nov 2013)

Some unhelpful "I'm right, you're wrong" posts have been deleted.

Keep the personal stuff out of here, please.

Carry on !


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## ColinJ (7 Nov 2013)

Well, if you can walk ok then you should be able to do moderate cycling without it hurting the way it is!

If it feels too hard, I don't understand why you are only using the middle gears? I suggest that you try what jay clock suggested a couple of posts back.

How straight is your leg when the pedal on that side is at the bottom of its stroke?


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## tpw123 (8 Nov 2013)

ColinJ said:


> Well, if you can walk ok then you should be able to do moderate cycling without it hurting the way it is!
> 
> If it feels too hard, I don't understand why you are only using the middle gears? I suggest that you try what jay clock suggested a couple of posts back.
> 
> How straight is your leg when the pedal on that side is at the bottom of its stroke?



The reason I was using the middle gears is because I read that it's actually better in the long run to keep your cadence between 60-75RPM by gear-shifting according to the incline/decline of the surface, rather than using a lower gear and just going mental on the pedals, as in "most efficient in terms of energy spent", but I guess it's more of a case of efficiency in terms of speed for someone who feels comfortable with the difficulty?


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## ColinJ (8 Nov 2013)

Hmm ... I usually pedal between 80 and 100 rpm! I think your low cadence isn't helping you. If you were to use a gear that lets you ride at the same speed at 90 rpm as you are doing currently at 60 rpm, then you would only be exerting 2/3 of the force on the pedals, which would certainly be easier on your leg muscles.


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## jay clock (8 Nov 2013)

The 65-75 sounds wrong. Current thinking is around 90-100rpm. I cycle thousands of km per year and I would have hurting thighs if I did it at 60-75rpm. 60 means a full second to bring the foot round. I did a turbo session today which had some stuff like that and it hurts like hell

Try spinning faster


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (8 Nov 2013)

jay clock said:


> The 65-75 sounds wrong. Current thinking is around 90-100rpm. I cycle thousands of km per year and I would have hurting thighs if I did it at 60-75rpm. 60 means a full second to bring the foot round. I did a turbo session today which had some stuff like that and it hurts like hell
> 
> Try spinning faster


Not quite._* Current magazine bollocks *_is 90-100 RPM because "Lance did it". In the real world, your cadence should be in a range you find comfortable. Not every rider can grind and not every rider can spin.

Here's an example


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## jay clock (8 Nov 2013)

The guy is in pain at 65-70. Try a little faster and see what happens


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## Fab Foodie (8 Nov 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not quite._* Current magazine bollocks *_is 90-100 RPM because "Lance did it". In the real world, your cadence should be in a range you find comfortable. Not every rider can grind and not every rider can spin.
> 
> Here's an example


This absolutely.
Pedal at the rate you feel most comfortable with and it'll likely be the most efficient for you. Ditch the computer and training schedules and just get out and pedal for the fun of it. The fitness will come quite rapidly.
Bike fit though sounds like it may be a bigger issue. A poorly fitting bike really works against you.


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## Dusty Bin (8 Nov 2013)

Cadence - schmadence. No point trying to force yourself to pedal at an artificial rate. Your natural cadence will change as your fitness improves, so just go with it.


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## Rob3rt (8 Nov 2013)

Unless you are clearly way off the mark...


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Nov 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not quite._* Current magazine bollocks *_is 90-100 RPM because "Lance did it". In the real world, your cadence should be in a range you find comfortable. Not every rider can grind and not every rider can spin.
> 
> Here's an example


Yes, it's a very personal thing. My typical cadence on the flat is probably only about 70rpm, and I've been using that cadence for years now, with long distances every year. Although I think it has probably resulted in my quads becoming overdeveloped compared to my calves.


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## Dusty Bin (10 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> Yes, it's a very personal thing. My typical cadence on the flat is probably only about 70rpm, and I've been using that cadence for years now, with long distances every year. Although I think it has probably resulted in my quads becoming overdeveloped compared to my calves.



Cycling is unlikely to be responsible for significant (ie 'overdeveloped) hypertrophy - unless you are also pushing weights as well...


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Cycling is unlikely to be responsible for significant (ie 'overdeveloped) hypertrophy - unless you are also pushing weights as well...


I didn't say my quads were overdeveloped, only that they were overdeveloped compared to my calves. In other words, I've observed that a lot of cyclists seem to have more muscled calves than I, and I am guessing that's partly/wholly due to my lower cadence when cycling. My quads are in fine shape, though: no unsightly bulges or varicose veins, just good healthy, tightly-packed muscle .


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## Dusty Bin (10 Nov 2013)

People's leg shapes are as varied as their facial features or hair colour - I really don't think cadence comes into it. Cycling itself is a fairly low-strength activity, so I can't really see an individual's leg muscle development being too affected by it.


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## Crackle (10 Nov 2013)




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## Dusty Bin (10 Nov 2013)

unless of course you are a track sprinter and spend a lot of time in the gym...


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> People's leg shapes are as varied as their facial features or hair colour - I really don't think cadence comes into it. Cycling itself is a fairly low-strength activity, so I can't really see an individual's leg muscle development being too affected by it.


Then we'll just have to disagree on this, no offence intended.


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## Crackle (10 Nov 2013)




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## Dusty Bin (10 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> Then we'll just have to disagree on this, no offence intended.



Disagree on what, sorry?


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Disagree on what, sorry?


On the cadence not affecting leg shape.


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Nov 2013)

Crackle said:


>


Was that directed at me, @Crackle ? I was just having a fairly civil discussion with @Dusty Bin . If I offended anyone, it was unintentional and I apologise.


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## Crackle (10 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> Was that directed at me, @Crackle ? I was just having a fairly civil discussion with @Dusty Bin .


 
Eh, no. Dusty. I was being irreverent.


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## Dusty Bin (10 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> On the cadence not affecting leg shape.



ok that's fine - but I still don't really understand how cadence would make a difference to that.


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## Rob3rt (11 Nov 2013)

I think it is too hard to say what is and what is not the case in this way. Eg. What is to say you wouldn't have developed the same musculature had you been pushing smaller gears?

After quite a long time of having the same degree of musculature on my legs (i.e. not much as all, I am skinny), I did notice an increase in both mass and definition when I transitioned from the time trial season to the hill climb season. But who can say what that is due to exactly?


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## VamP (11 Nov 2013)

A lot of the time both size and definition appear to have increased when weight (fat) loss has taken place. It's really pretty hard to increase muscle mass through cycling alone.


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## ColinJ (11 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I think it is too hard to say what is and what is not the case in this way. Eg. What is to say you wouldn't have developed the same musculature had you been pushing smaller gears?
> 
> After quite a long time of having the same degree of musculature on my legs (i.e. not much as all, I am skinny), I did notice an increase in both mass and definition when I transitioned from the time trial season to the hill climb season. But who can say what that is due to exactly?


Whereas I am the opposite ... I have naturally big calf muscles. It took a serious illness to make them wither away, and as soon as I started hill walking and cycling again, they came back!

To a lesser extent, the same applies to the other muscles in my legs. They respond very quickly to training. It doesn't matter how little I do - short of lying in bed for 6-8 weeks (which is what did last year), I develop quite big legs.


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## Rob3rt (11 Nov 2013)

VamP said:


> A lot of the time both size and definition appear to have increased when weight (fat) loss has taken place. It's really pretty hard to increase muscle mass through cycling alone.



Tape measures come in handy sometimes


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## VamP (11 Nov 2013)

Sure, that's the only practical way to measure muscles, but muscle volume is affected by the volume of blood in the muscle too, I measure about half inch difference thigh circumference before and after ride.

I don't think my thigh circumference has increased since I started cycling, not by more than about an inch on average. YMMV.


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## tpw123 (11 Nov 2013)

Although I'm still getting slight issues, I've been able to reduce the discomfort to 1/10th of what I was previously experiencing. You're all going to hate my guts, but I'm 99% sure it was due to really uneven tire pressure and one tire being pretty deflated. But every stupid mistake is a lesson learned and now the only thing standing between me and fitness is my own dismal willpower. Thanks for all of your help guys!


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## Fab Foodie (11 Nov 2013)

tpw123 said:


> Although I'm still getting slight issues, I've been able to reduce the discomfort to 1/10th of what I was previously experiencing. You're all going to hate my guts, but I'm 99% sure it was due to really uneven tire pressure and one tire being pretty deflated. But every stupid mistake is a lesson learned and now the only thing standing between me and fitness is my own dismal willpower. Thanks for all of your help guys!


YAY!


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