# What 20 and 26" tyres to change to from Marathon Plus?



## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Hi,

I fitted 1.5" wide M+ (20" front and 25" rear) when I bought the bike 'bent last November - because my road bike has 700cx25 Conti Hardshells and these work well in the thorn-strewn rural roads of Cheshire and N Shropshire. The M+ seemed to offer the best puncture resistance on my local roads in the sizes I need for the 'bent.

I only expected to use the 'bent over the winter - but I enjoy it so much that I've done 90% of my riding since November on the 'bent. Now that we are safely out of the thorn season, and the 'bent is in frequent use (at least until the Legend of Gelert audax!) I wonder if there are some 'quicker' tyres I should try.

The Durano Pluses look good, but only available as a Durano in the 20" size (I think). 1.1" on the front and 1.35 on the rear.

Firstly, are there any 'quicker' tyres than the M+ that still have a similar level of p*ture resistance, and if I did change tyre, am I really going to notice a difference?

Thoughts pls.


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## Scoosh (5 May 2015)

Oooh - looking forward to replies to this, as I am considering changing my Marathon Racers for something else. I have some Conti SportContacts, which I will put on once I get the inner tubes ... and will be interested to see what differences I notice in ride comfort and speed.


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> Oooh - looking forward to replies to this, as I am considering changing my Marathon Racers for something else. I have some Conti SportContacts, which I will put on once I get the inner tubes ... and will be interested to see what differences I notice in ride comfort and speed.



 Not sure I'm going to get a definitive answer, but we will see! There's not a lot of choice for the 20" that I can find - but I'm new to this size and doubtless the great resource of CC will have been there long before me.....!


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## mjr (5 May 2015)

How many scratches are you getting in the sidewall? How deep are the bits you're pulling out?

If few and not very, then Road Cruisers might be a good choice (I use the similar Delta Cruiser but it's not available in a 20). If few and deep, then regular Marathon seems like a good bet. If you're taking much sidewall damage, I think any non plus tyres will be risky.


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## mjr (5 May 2015)

Oh and I currently use Kenda KWest in a 20 which are fairly resistant and fairly smooth/fast but I'm not sure how well they wear yet. Might be worth considering, again if sidewalls aren't taking heavy attack. Edit: except they're discontinued, which is the sort of nonsense that stopped me using Kenda.


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

mjray said:


> How many scratches are you getting in the sidewall? How deep are the bits you're pulling out?
> 
> If few and not very, then Road Cruisers might be a good choice (I use the similar Delta Cruiser but it's not available in a 20). If few and deep, then regular Marathon seems like a good bet. If you're taking much sidewall damage, I think any non plus tyres will be risky.


 
er, must go and check.....

No sidewall damage at all over 1000 miles despite some thumping potholes - but I run the front at >80psi, and the rear at 90-100psi.. And I never see any thorns in the tread, but have had 1 puncture - a thorn that went between the tread blocks on the front. We get carpets of thorns all across the roads between October and March when the farmers are hedge-mangling. Around here, we have hawthorn hedges almost everywhere, and on both sides of the road - it's all sheep and cattle here - so stockproof hedges are the norm. I pick my way through but it's inevitable that i run over a few - but still the M+ keep them out. Using M+ may seem overkill, but I originally had Kendas on my Defy and they were a magnet for thorn punctures. Hence the Conti Gators and the M+ on the 'bent.

I was looking for similar level of puncture protection and a lower rolling resistance - hence the Durano Pluses (which CRC have in stock in a 20" I see), which being slick I assume will roll easier. But is that true? The Road Cruisers are treaded - and I thought I needed a slicker tyre for summer - but maybe my logic is flawed.

All thoughts appreciated.


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## arallsopp (5 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Hi,
> Firstly, are there any 'quicker' tyres than the M+


Yes.



andytheflyer said:


> Hi,
> ...that still have a similar level of p*ture resistance.


No. 

I used to run a Marathon racer 20" front. It was faster than the M+ (or seemed so anyway) and although was as (or more) resilient than pretty much anything else, after about 8k miles it started to let me down with increasing regularity. Eventually (after about 10k miles) I switched to the M+. The main difference is I no longer sit up and try to peer around the boom whilst riding to work out why the front is squishy. It isn't. 

On the back, I had another racer (in 26"). I switched to a supreme at the same time that I swapped the front. I'd say both are slightly slower than the racers (which makes sense) but it could well be that the M+ is very slow and the supreme is unable to make up the shortfall. Too hard to wheelie it and find out.

Personally, I just run it as a work horse. Dynamo lights, racks all around, at least one laptop onboard, plus me means its never going to be a speedster. That's OK. My legs could use the workout


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## StuAff (5 May 2015)

Durano Plus are indeed available in 28/406 size- CRC have them for £25, Evans for a bit more. They will definitely be quicker than M+, though not with the same puncture resistance (they're still tougher than a very very tough thing, though). I'd be tempted to stick them on Chutney the Dahon if only they were a bit wider- the 40mm Marathon Racers that are on now have a lot more air..


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## mjr (5 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> I was looking for similar level of puncture protection and a lower rolling resistance - hence the Durano Pluses (which CRC have in stock in a 20" I see), which being slick I assume will roll easier. But is that true? The Road Cruisers are treaded - and I thought I needed a slicker tyre for summer - but maybe my logic is flawed.


It's often written that tread is a red herring - it's mostly for cosmetics and slightly for biting through mush - and I basically agree with that. Compound and stiffness(construction) both make more difference to what will roll easier - that explains the huge difference in ease-of-rolling between M+ (stiffer, protected sidewalls) and Marathon (protected centre but less so on the sides).

I can't write much about the Duranos because I've never tried them. It looks a bit like the Durano and D+ are different tyres, similar to how the various Marathons are.


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## StuAff (5 May 2015)

mjray said:


> IIt looks a bit like the Durano and D+ are different tyres, similar to how the various Marathons are.


Yes, to put it mildly. The Durano family includes the standard one, the DD (sidewall protection), the E (for E-bikes), the HT (tubular) and the Plus (Smartguard layer as M+, in thinner form).


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## mr messy (5 May 2015)

Can really feel the protection layer in the D+ compared to the more basic kevlarguard. Schwalbe labelling now as 'flatless'. Pretty sure the Duranos are dual compound for better grip also


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

StuAff said:


> Yes, to put it mildly. The Durano family includes the standard one, the DD (sidewall protection), the E (for E-bikes), the HT (tubular) and the Plus (Smartguard layer as M+, in thinner form).



Hmmmmm.... Much to think about - many thx to all the respondents so far.

I'm totally happy with the M+ as a winter tyre, but I'm beginning to think I'm too conservative for a summer tyre when there are almost no thorns around, and since my rides are 99% rural there's almost no urban broken glass.

So, suggestions pls for a quicker tyre than the M+ in 20 and 26 sizes, but with some puncture resistance. I note Andy Allsopp's comments about the M Supreme and Racer - but these are wider than the 1.5 inch M+- so are they not slower? Or does the armour plate of the M+ make them intrinsically slower than (say) the std Marathon?

Do I need to think slicks (e.g. Durano) only, or does the standard Marathon or Road Cruiser roll easier than the M+?

Thx for your patience! Suspect the answer to my Q has to do with the lengths of string.....


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## StuAff (5 May 2015)

You're probably not wrong there. I run 40mm tyres on Chutney as I found 28mms a bit harsher though it was still comfortable. I still might give Durano+ a go in future, not least because the Marathon Racers I'm using now are no longer available in a folding version, at least in 406 size. A wider tyre can, depending on road conditions, be faster- if only because a rider feels they can press on more without being rattled to bits...


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Just found this: http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/recumbent

Very interesting......



StuAff said:


> You're probably not wrong there. I run 40mm tyres on Chutney as I found 28mms a bit harsher though it was still comfortable. I still might give Durano+ a go in future, not least because the Marathon Racers I'm using now are no longer available in a folding version, at least in 406 size. A wider tyre can, depending on road conditions, be faster- if only because a rider feels they can press on more without being rattled to bits...



In doing a bit more research, the experts advocate a slightly wider tyre as being faster, so arallsopp is probably right in his assertion. Seems counter-intuitive, but I understand the physics of the wide is faster contention.


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## Scoosh (5 May 2015)

The previous owner of my Fuego used to TT on it and used the Conti SportContacts for that, so they should be quite quick.

Report to come when I ...

get then changed over
have had a chance to ride with them a bit
have an opinion about whether they are faster/slower, more/less/same comfy etc


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> The previous owner of my Fuego used to TT on it and used the Conti SportContacts for that, so they should be quite quick.
> 
> Report to come when I ...
> 
> ...



I have SportContacts on a hybrid and I like them - but have nothing to compare to as it's my shopping bike!

What size wheels on the Fuego? That may be my next 'bent (having caught the bug!)


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## Scoosh (5 May 2015)

20" Front, 26" Rear - it's a nice ride !


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## andytheflyer (5 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> 20" Front, 26" Rear - it's a nice ride !



Didn't know that you could get them in 20" - but the hybrid has 26" though.


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## spennie (6 May 2015)

I ride on schwable durano tyres front(20") and back(26") at 100psi, around north norfolks country lanes,i find them smooth and roll really well, punture resistance is really good .


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

I ran Durano's on my old trice as it had the old standard 20" wheels on the front and it was basically a choice of them or Raleigh Shopper tyres. They rolled ok but didn't resist Norfolk flint particularly well ......and were a pig to get on or off. 
My Performer gives me more options for tyres and I run Marathons on the front and a Marathon Plus on the rear.
When I received the trike it was fitted with Michelin City and they did ok with only one deflation in 1500 miles - but they were quite cut up by then.
I am not sure that I am sensitive enough as a rider to know when a tyre has improved rolling resistance or not. Some days it feels harder work than others which is a combination of how my body is, weather conditions (wind mainly) and route. After that it may all be placebo affect, but running on higher pressures definitely helps noticeably - but at a cost of increased harshness.


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## andytheflyer (6 May 2015)

mrandmrspoves said:


> I ran Durano's on my old trice as it had the old standard 20" wheels on the front and it was basically a choice of them or Raleigh Shopper tyres. They rolled ok but didn't resist Norfolk flint particularly well ......and were a pig to get on or off.
> My Performer gives me more options for tyres and I run Marathons on the front and a Marathon Plus on the rear.
> When I received the trike it was fitted with Michelin City and they did ok with only one deflation in 1500 miles - but they were quite cut up by then.
> I am not sure that I am sensitive enough as a rider to know when a tyre has improved rolling resistance or not. Some days it feels harder work than others which is a combination of how my body is, weather conditions (wind mainly) and route. After that it may all be placebo affect, but running on higher pressures definitely helps noticeably - but at a cost of increased harshness.



I've just gone with Andy Allsopp's recommendations of Marathon Racers, based on this: http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/recumbent

It was a toss-up between those and the Duranos. I just hope that I don't regret the lower puncture resistance over the summer - will go back to the M+s at the end of the year.

What Performer do you have? Yours is the first Performer I have heard of in the UK other than mine - there being no UK agent that I know of.


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

I purchased mine from off eBay via Australia. Pennies over £1000 delivered and somehow avoided import tax and VAT too! It is the Trike E - 27 gear model. It arrived partially assembled in a big box and I put it together from there. Over 3000 miles on it and all good.


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## Scoosh (6 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> What Performer do you have? Yours is the first Performer I have heard of in the UK other than mine - there being no UK agent that I know of.


Homework, @andytheflyer, homework !


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

.....If I had waited a year I could have saved £17 as the exchange rate is more favourable now!


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## Scoosh (6 May 2015)

Performer have really grown their range of 'bents too - must be selling quite well.


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## andytheflyer (6 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> Homework, @andytheflyer, homework !



..because that thread title is trikes - I've been looking for other Performer bikes in the UK so I missed that thread . The eBay ads from Oz look to be very good value. I fancy the Toscana USS! I spoke to Performer in Taiwan a while back and they can supply spares for my Amigo should I need cycle parts. But no UK source so we have to rely on the global market.


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## Scoosh (6 May 2015)




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## andytheflyer (6 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> View attachment 88146


Didn't find that last time I looked a few weeks ago. New agent maybe?


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> ..because that thread title is trikes - I've been looking for other Performer bikes in the UK so I missed that thread . The eBay ads from Oz look to be very good value. I fancy the Toscana USS! I spoke to Performer in Taiwan a while back and they can supply spares for my Amigo should I need cycle parts. But no UK source so we have to rely on the global market.



Steve the dealer at A1 Adventuresports in Oz has been excellent and I would certainly buy through him again. (Although I don't imagine n+1 happening any time soon) As they have their own website I think there would be money to be saved by dealing directly off eBay and if you used a credit card you would still have the security of the card protection.


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

Scoosh said:


> View attachment 88146



News to me too! 
Good that we have a UK dealer at last.


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## Scoosh (6 May 2015)

They've been involved since Nov 14.


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## mrandmrspoves (6 May 2015)

Last time I looked there wasn't a UK dealer. ....how time flies!


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## andytheflyer (7 May 2015)

Was waiting for break in the black conveyor belt of torrential showers heading east across the Dee valley before going for a ride on the Defy.

Then the doorbell rang; my new Marathon Racers and a Var tyre tool had arrived. 10/10 to Spa Cycles.. So I thought I'd fit them. Put the front (wired bead) on a storage heater to warm up and fitted the folding rear 26". OK. Hard, but not impossible, even if the folds in the tyre kept trying to push the bead back off.

Broke the tyre lever part of the Var tool on the first use trying to get the 20" M+ off the front. Resorted to good 'ole steel levers. Fitted the new front with the aid of the Var - to lever the last bit of bead on. Yes, I know you're supposed to be able to do it with your fingers if you get all the bead into the rim well. No you can't. Even with velcro straps to keep the tyre in place. Managed all but the last couple of inches by hand and the Var popped the last bit on easily. Then grappled the Var tool back from under the bead. Just as hard. The Var, a Crank Bros lever and 2 steelies have gone into my saddle pack. Just in case.

Don't need to go for a ride now - just need a lie down for an hour or two.

I hope I never get a roadside p*ture.......

Will let you know what I think about the rolling characteristics compared to the M+ ones that came off. And will go back on when the hedge manglers return to their devil-worship in the autumn. Standby.


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## andytheflyer (8 May 2015)

Out for a breaking-in 18 miler before the rain arrives - again. 

Too early to pontificate on rolling resistance, but definitely a smoother, more 'comfortable' ride than the M+ that came off. Didn't realise how 'harsh' and stiff the M+ are. Good so far.


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## BlackPanther (9 May 2015)

I run Marathon Racers on the front of the Trice and if I get a flat I can swap a tube in a couple of mins. I never want to have to fix a rear puncture on the way to work though so it's a Marathon Plus. 5 years/25,000+ puncture free miles on those be-a-utiful Marathon Plus tyres!

The Raptobike has a Marathon Plus on the rear, and as its one of those weird 20 inch front wheels, I have to rely on a Durano.


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## andytheflyer (9 May 2015)

BlackPanther said:


> I run Marathon Racers on the front of the Trice and if I get a flat I can swap a tube in a couple of mins. I never want to have to fix a rear puncture on the way to work though so it's a Marathon Plus. 5 years/25,000+ puncture free miles on those be-a-utiful Marathon Plus tyres!
> 
> The Raptobike has a Marathon Plus on the rear, and as its one of those weird 20 inch front wheels, I have to rely on a Durano.




You can get M+ in 20" - because I bought one in November. Tricky to fit though!


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## mrandmrspoves (10 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> You can get M+ in 20" - because I bought one in November. Tricky to fit though!



Yes you can - but @BlackPanther has the old standard 20" rims which are ETRTO 451 whereas newer 20" rims are ETRTO 406. 
You can not fit a tyre of the wrong ETRTO size and the choice of tyres available for 451 is quite limited.


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## byegad (10 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> Broke the tyre lever part of the Var tool on the first use trying to get the 20" M+ off the front. Resorted to good 'ole steel levers. .



That sums up the problem I had with M+. Not only do they roll like you are riding through 1/4" of treacle but when they puncture, and they do*, you are stuffed if you can't get the beggars off the rim!

*Yes I know they are very good on the protection front, but when I got my last M+ puncture, as in I ditched the ruddy M+s when I got the bike home in the car, I could not get the 700C sized tyre off the rim at the roadside. At home I ended up with metal levers bending and resorted to cutting the bead on one to get it off. Replaced with Pasela Tourguards the bike was faster.


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## windmiller (10 May 2015)

The ordinary Marathon is almost as puncture proof as the plus with none of the downsides. I run the plus on my Pashley Prospero and so far two flats, bad luck I know but at £30 each very annoying. Have yet to puncture a Marathon supreme or Big Apple. Had first ever twin blow out at 40mph on my Ice B2 which came with marathon racers..


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## BlackPanther (10 May 2015)

andytheflyer said:


> You can get M+ in 20" - because I bought one in November. Tricky to fit though!



I know, but my Rapto has the weird 451 rim, (I suspect a previous owner swapped it out for some unfathomable reason) whereas the Trice has the far more popular 406 size. You can get Marathon Plus in the 406, but I can't source a 451.


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## mjr (15 May 2015)

byegad said:


> That sums up the problem I had with M+. Not only do they roll like you are riding through 1/4" of treacle but when they puncture, and they do*, you are stuffed if you can't get the beggars off the rim!


Not completely because there's always http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/zefal-sealant-spray but I do feel people sometimes go straight for M+ without seeing if the much nicer Marathon Greenguard or one of the various Cruisers would work well enough.


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## byegad (15 May 2015)

Totally agree, I use Big Apples on two of my trikes which are nearly as secure as M+, roll way better if you keep them near the 70psi max and I have removed and refitted one without a tyre lever! Normally I use two to get the tyre off the rim and one to put it back.


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## Bonifatius (17 May 2015)

I personally can recommend *Specialized Hemisphere Armadillo Tyre. *I did already about 4000 mi without any problems. This tyre have much better grip on the corners.


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