# Weight loss pills etc



## BigonaBianchi (27 Jan 2012)

Ok so i know the real answer is ride more eat less...but I also read there are pills and supplements you can take that help burn the fat and build the muscle...erm...muscles...as you ride...so I thought why the hell not...but a google search left me confused as to what works and what is a simple ripp off, and what may or may not be safe.

All i want to do is burn off a little excess, but it's difficult to ride more than I am atm and I am eating as little as I can anyway (and healthy)...

..so do any of you use or know of peeps that use these and if so which ones etc.

I know some will hold the view that these are unecessary and I respect that, I jus t want to find out for myself.


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## ChefDicko (27 Jan 2012)

i take a fat burner called granade, you can buy from any suplement shop there full of orange peel, green tea ect, there ment to burn fat and lower your apetite. i dont think they have done much of either of those for me but they certainly give you energy,


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## Lisa21 (27 Jan 2012)

Iv found a fantastic one that really works. Its expensive tho. I havent used it but a good friend of mine has and it did wonders for her.Ill pm you the details if you want.


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## BigonaBianchi (27 Jan 2012)

sure lisa pm me


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## ColinJ (27 Jan 2012)

Er ... 

Oh, never mind - it's your choice!


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## ColinJ (27 Jan 2012)

(<--- Speed freak! )


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## col (27 Jan 2012)

If you want to use them, green tea and even spicy food like curries help speed the metabolism up a little. Just cut out fat and you will get the results you want.


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## Camrider (27 Jan 2012)

Nothing but "Snake Oil" Do not waste your money.


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## redcard (28 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> Nothing but "Snake Oil" Do not waste your money.


 
Not really. Depends what you expect from them.

Hydroxycut Hardcore will give you extra energy and motivation. I can get in a decent 70 minutes cardio workout with a couple of pills. Without it? I struggle to complete 40 minutes.


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## col (28 Jan 2012)

redcard said:


> Not really. Depends what you expect from them.
> 
> Hydroxycut Hardcore will give you extra energy and motivation. I can get in a decent 70 minutes cardio workout with a couple of pills. Without it? I struggle to complete 40 minutes.


 It seems to be mainly a caffiene based pill ?


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## redcard (28 Jan 2012)

col said:


> It seems to be mainly a caffiene based pill ?


 
I guess, yes. Only thing I know is that it's incredibly effective for energy boosts.


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## Camrider (28 Jan 2012)

"Although Hydroxycut may help you lose more weight than dieting and exercising alone, you must still be active and follow a reduced-calorie diet to see results. Because Hydroxycut is considered a supplement, not a medication, the FDA has not evaluated the claims made by Iovate nor the research supporting those claims. *Possible side effects include insomnia, shakiness, nervousness, increased urination and indigestion or heartburn. There can be drug interactions with certain antibiotics, diabetes medications, asthma medications and antidepressants*."
Sounds lovely stuff ​


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## snorri (28 Jan 2012)

A friend of mine lost weight quite easily by sticking to a diet of some (expensive)magic milk shake type things. He reached his target weight, stopped the magic formula and reverted to normal food and the weight piled on again rapidly. The weight loss product worked, but there was no guidance provided along with it to help the user maintain a healthy diet using sensible quantities of normal food, and it was this guidance that he needed more than a weight loss product.


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## redcard (28 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> "Although Hydroxycut may help you lose more weight than dieting and exercising alone, you must still be active and follow a reduced-calorie diet to see results. Because Hydroxycut is considered a supplement, not a medication, the FDA has not evaluated the claims made by Iovate nor the research supporting those claims. *Possible side effects include insomnia, shakiness, nervousness, increased urination and indigestion or heartburn. There can be drug interactions with certain antibiotics, diabetes medications, asthma medications and antidepressants*."
> Sounds lovely stuff ​


Whereas Aspirin:

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); black or bloody stools; confusion; diarrhea; dizziness; drowsiness; hearing loss; ringing in the ears; severe or persistent stomach pain; unusual bruising; vomiting.


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## Milo (28 Jan 2012)

Anything legal will be snake oil the illegals will make you mad. Just eat less ride more.


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## Camrider (28 Jan 2012)

The trouble with weight loss products and fad diets like Atkins is that once you stop (because at some point you have to) you just put it all back on because you go back to your old ways. Sorting out a healthy diet and exercise routine may take you a while to get where you want to be (in my case 10 months to lose nearly 30 kg) but it is sustainable does not cost a penny (unless like me you reward yourself with a new bike as a reward)


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## Camrider (28 Jan 2012)

> Whereas Aspirin


 
I don't use those either, but if I did that warning would be on the packet, I bet the snake oil makes no mention of any risk.


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## redcard (28 Jan 2012)

Camrider said:


> I don't use those either, but if I did that warning would be on the packet, I bet the snake oil makes no mention of any risk.


 
You're totally right, no food or nutritional supplements have every done anyone any good. Ever.


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## gb155 (28 Jan 2012)

Milo said:


> Anything legal will be snake oil the illegals will make you mad. Just eat less ride more.




Spot on 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## BigTam (28 Jan 2012)

If it was as easy as taking a pill, we wouldnt have an obesity epidemic in this country


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## screenman (28 Jan 2012)

snorri, I would suggest your friend lost weight because they managed to at less calories that they burned off.


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## BigonaBianchi (28 Jan 2012)

yes yes yes..I know all that...and like I said .. the answer is to ride more eat less..BUT atm I cannot ride any more or eat much less and I am still gaining weight...I think its stress and medication related but hey ho...so I am going to try that grenade stuff as it looks like its got natural stuff in there instead of chemicals.
If it doesnt work I will jon the sceptics on here, if it works I will will be happier...i dont see the risk tbh..apart from a few quid


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## yello (28 Jan 2012)

The only time I have tried pills was in the 80s when I lived in the US and you could buy appetite suppressants from Woolworths and the like (not pharmacies, no need for a prescription). 

I lost weight as I was eating less and going to the gym. I reckon the pills worked in that I wasn't feeling hungry all of the time.


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## david k (28 Jan 2012)

BigTam said:


> If it was as easy as taking a pill, we wouldnt have an obesity epidemic in this country


 
it shouldnt be looked on as a 'magic pill' but supplements and diet aids can and have helped people. As mentioned before we must realise that the diet will have to stop at some stage and be replaced by healthy eating and lifestyle no the old diet which has already put you where you didnt want to be, its obviously going to take you back there.

IMO diets such as milkshakes, meal replacement, atkins etc are fine to get big weight off but people should slowly stop and replace with healthy eating and lifestyle.

I dont judge those who chose to get some help, sometimes even the psychological effect can be positive, just dont rely upon that only.


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## ColinJ (28 Jan 2012)

User13710 said:


> Not that long ago 'diet pills' were forms of speed, which will certainly make anyone lose weight pretty quickly - but would you want to pay the price?


That's what I was alluding to, above!

A mate of mine caught a nasty virus that messed up his thyroid gland. He ended up with a permanent heart rate of 180 bpm, felt like he was going to die, couldn't sleep, was agitated all the time, was dripping sweat and the weight fell off him so quickly that he was eating 6 huge meals a day and still couldn't stop getting thinner. Just like being a speed freak in fact ...

He eventually had his thyroid gland 'zapped' to bring it back to a healthy range of operation, went back to eating 3 normal-sized meals a day and his weight settled back to its old level.

So, if you don't mind being a speed freak for the rest of your life, can put up the symptoms mentioned above, plus the mental health damage that would almost inevitably follow - you know what to do! 

_Alternatively_ ... You don't need to eat 'less', you need to eat 'different'. If you want to, you can eat huge quantities of many vegetables and not take in that many calories, as long as you don't accompany the veg with similar amounts of cheese. meat, bread and so on.


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## david k (28 Jan 2012)

User13710 said:


> If there was a benign pill that would make people lose weight, GPs would be handing them out free, and saving the NHS a fortune in all the obesity-related problems it has to tackle.
> 
> Good luck with the weight loss anyway - slow and sure is best, and you'll get there in the end.


 

dont think people are saying carry on as they are but take a pill, i think the question is if i diet and excersise more will taking a supplement help with weight loss. why do people insist on thinking that taking a pill means not doing anything else to support a healthy lifestyle


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## david k (28 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> That's what I was alluding to, above!
> 
> A mate of mine caught a nasty virus that messed up his thyroid gland. He ended up with a permanent heart rate of 180 bpm, felt like he was going to die, couldn't sleep, was agitated all the time, was dripping sweat and the weight fell off him so quickly that he was eating 6 huge meals a day and still couldn't stop getting thinner. Just like being a speed freak in fact ...
> 
> ...


 
youve described me! only mine is now underactive and i need ot take levothyroxine to replce, now i struggle to keep weight donw


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## Camrider (28 Jan 2012)

> supplements and diet aids can and have helped people


 
I would like to see the peer reviewed scientific studies that back that up.


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## ColinJ (28 Jan 2012)

david k said:


> youve described me! only mine is now underactive and i need ot take levothyroxine to replce, now i struggle to keep weight donw


My late mum had an over-active thyroid gland (like my mate's) but when the doctors 'zapped' hers they overdid it with her too, so then she was also put on those pills to get what was left working again!


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## Becs (28 Jan 2012)

The only diet pills that work, are peer reviewed and safe are the fat binders ("Ali" and the like - orlistat etc) but they will give you steatorrhoea (shitting fat) which sounds horrific and has lead to the term "Ali-oops" - which I am sure you can work out. They do work - although I think a lot of it is that you get punished so badly when you eat fat that you have to modify your diet to high fibre and protein low fat foods to avoid seepage!

However what you can do is take some form of caffeine 45-60 mins before exercise to boost the number of calories burnt. This is particularly useful if you also combine your cycling with resistance training of some sort. If you really want to pop a pill take a pro-plus but a strong coffee will do and will be a lot safer than any crap you can find on the interweb. Good research behind it, not a miracle treatment but it may give you a bit of a boost.


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## ayceejay (28 Jan 2012)

"I am still gaining weight...I think its stress and medication related but hey ho" you say and are considering amphetamine or caffeine or some other way/pill to speed up your metabolism? Not sure that is such a good idea


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## Becs (28 Jan 2012)

ayceejay said:


> "I am still gaining weight...I think its stress and medication related but hey ho" you say and are considering amphetamine or caffeine or some other way/pill to speed up your metabolism? Not sure that is such a good idea


 
Indeed. Also - the only way that stress would make you gain weight is if you comfort eat/have a poor diet from being so busy (I used to have this problem when I still worked in practice and had to eat at least 2 meals a day on the move in my car). If anything stress should make you lose weight. If you think it's medication related maybe speak to your doctor - however medications don't just magically make you fat, they either increase your appetite (e.g. corticosteroids and the pill) or reduce your activity levels and therefore metabolism (e.g. some anti depressants). So therefore if you are gaining weight you must be eating too many calories for your current activity level.


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## smokeysmoo (28 Jan 2012)

Orlistat is marketed under the brand name Xenical. I as put on this by my Doctor a few years ago. Alli is the non-prescription, and lesser dosed version or Orlistat/Xenical.
Both work by inhibiting how much fat your body absorbs from food, (alhtough I'm sure everyone know this).
The basic idea is that if you eat a healthy diet while using it you will lose weight, (as your eating a healthy diet  ), and you won't suffer from steatorrhoea. It doesn't suppress your appetite or prevent you eating anything you want. So you can still eat a greasy fry up, of fish and chips, but you will suffer when you visit the porcelain throne. Alternatively, you simply don't take your tablet, eat the greasy $hit and avoid the toilet issues, but just don't expect any positive weight results.

It's not a case of eat less, ride more, (although it will certainly help). It's a case of consume less calories than you use, simple* 


*Well it is in theory


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## compo (28 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> That's what I was alluding to, above!
> 
> A mate of mine caught a nasty virus that messed up his thyroid gland. He ended up with a permanent heart rate of 180 bpm, felt like he was going to die, couldn't sleep, was agitated all the time, was dripping sweat and the weight fell off him so quickly that he was eating 6 huge meals a day and still couldn't stop getting thinner. Just like being a speed freak in fact ...
> 
> ...


 
I went there with those signs and symptoms with Grave's Disease, badly overactive thyroid being one of the factors. Two doses of Radio Iodine had little effect on my thyroid output. In the end I had a total thyroidectomy and now rely on Levothyroxine to keep me going.


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## david k (28 Jan 2012)

compo said:


> I went there with those signs and symptoms with Grave's Disease, badly overactive thyroid being one of the factors. Two doses of Radio Iodine had little effect on my thyroid output. In the end I had a total thyroidectomy and now rely on Levothyroxine to keep me going.


i had a big dose of radio iodine that didnt wok at first, i stayed on carbinazole, after 3 weeks it kicking in and i went drastically under active! u probably like me had irregular heart beat which was a worry but alls good now. i sometimes get tired but on the whole very very well. my cardiovascular work is better than its been ever, as thye presume i had problems for years
now im out with tennis elbow but taking time to diet and this makes me too weak to cycle much, when im back on the bike soon i should be lighter

back on diet, ive lost weight by using a simple old fashioned diet. i have 3 meals a day, cereal, salad or tuna crunch or similar for lunch and a healthy dinner at tea time, no chocolate, chips or crisps, i have barely any bread. i occasionally have a meal replacement shake or bar if im too lazy to make my lunch but this is a pretty sustainable diet. i have muller ligh yoghurts if hungy or need something sweet. ive lost nearly a stone in 3 weeks, too much IMO but i hope to slow it down


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## oldfatfool (28 Jan 2012)

High5 zero tabs claim to be proven to make you burn more fat during exercise http://www.highfive.co.uk/zero_INT.php Wether they do or don't they are cheap, reasonably pleasant tasting and keep you hydrated.


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## Camrider (28 Jan 2012)

> High5 zero tabs claim to be proven to make you burn more fat during exercise


 
I would take take claim with a huge pinch of salt, 1st off apparently only 22 people were involved in this study, and more importantly they do not provide a citation to this so called piece of research which I suspect does not exist. I smell snake oil again.


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## BigonaBianchi (28 Jan 2012)

> or reduce your activity levels and therefore metabolism (e.g. some anti depressants). So therefore if you are gaining weight you must be eating too many calories for your current activity level.


 
probably true as I am currently dropping down from what i consider to be the worst anti depressant out there (and I've done nearly all of them) citalopram. The fatigue it leaves you with is incredible..at these doses anyway. So yes I think my metabolism is slower than it was before and very ride is a battle at the moment. Which is why I have been eating very sensibly as well. I like the idea that these pills can give me a 'boost' when exercising and suppress the appetite. What is wrong with that?
I have been through the weight loss battle already (some of you may know I lost over 8 stone that way)...but thta involved more riding than i can do atm given the medication crap.

To me this is just a temporary thing, not a final solution. The aim being to just get more benefit from the exercise I am doing (iro 75-100 miles a week). The plan being to reduce some weight and feel better during the withdrawel period (which I am told will last until august..sigh)

The alternative would be to do nothing...and exist on a lettuce leaf a day likely ride even less as my energy levels drop further.

As far as the anxiety thing goes...trust me ..at 60mg citalopram for 3 years I KNOW all about that! It sucks BIG time...but now I'm down to just 28mg and a LOT calmer as a result. I doubt the Grenade will cause to much extra anxiety, and if it does I'll just stop taking it as its not addictive (unlike citalopram...and pplease dont anybody jump in here and tell me it isnt..because I have the T shirt on that one and it is.)

So..FWIW...yes if the situation was 'normal' and this was a simple case ,of more lard than legs I would agree, and do it like I did before. But it isnt, and while this incredible fatigue continues I have two options...1) lay down do nothing and grow fatter or 2) fight , my choice, and ride as much as I can, eat healthily etc....but to do that RIGHT NOW I feel a little temporary 'help' cant hurt.

Now dont get me wrong, I am not a massive great hulk of lard...in fact for my age I am told I am fit. But I just want fitter, nought wrong with that either.
Cycling is also crucial for my withdrawel, it keeps me 'out there' in th efresh air, moving, and whilst the withdrawel effects keep hitting me I want to fight them by cycling my way through them. I refuse to simply lay down and let them win.

This is a temporary 'crutch' if you like to help get through this, when I will drop the grenade and keep going at the then , hopefully higher , level of activity as the med withdrawel effects reduce.


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## col (28 Jan 2012)

redcard said:


> I guess, yes. Only thing I know is that it's incredibly effective for energy boosts.


 I once had four cups of coffee in an hour , on a very hot shift on ward. Felt my heart rate go wacky and asked the doc to check me out. Two minutes later I was in A and E downstairs getting injections to stop my heart and get it back to normal, after three injections if it didnt work, its the paddles. Luckily the second worked. Reason, caffiene from the coffee Id guzzled. And they gave me a lecture on what caffiene can do to you if you overdo it. It caused tachy eurithmia for me. People dont realise how bad for us it is, I now drink decaff.


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## fossyant (28 Jan 2012)

CHECK YOUR THYROID.

Really.

My wife has been diagnosed with an under active one of these thingy's and it's taken a very very long time to get things better - doctors are clueless. Like many, she has digested the WEB, and know's more than the GP. Still not right, but it's going in the right direction. Your symptoms are typical though !


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## fossyant (28 Jan 2012)

col said:


> I once had four cups of coffee in an hour , on a very hot shift on ward. Felt my heart rate go wacky and asked the doc to check me out. Two minutes later I was in A and E downstairs getting injections to stop my heart and get it back to normal, after three injections if it didnt work, its the paddles. Luckily the second worked. Reason, caffiene from the coffee Id guzzled. And they gave me a lecture on what caffiene can do to you if you overdo it. It caused tachy eurithmia for me. People dont realise how bad for us it is, I now drink decaff.


 
Take more than that for me. I was about 30 bpm on my op in Feb 11, they could not get me to get up at first. ~I was out the hospital 4 hours after coming round, bye !


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## col (28 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> Take more than that for me. I was about 30 bpm on my op in Feb 11, they could not get me to get up at first. ~I was out the hospital 4 hours after coming round, bye !


 So you were very laid back and chilled then? My HR was 220 give or take, lucky I have no heart defects or, they said it would have been a heart attack.


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## CopperCyclist (28 Jan 2012)

You don't even need to eat less. Or eat healthy. Just do more instead! I've lost two stone since last March just because I started cycling, and I still eat as unhealthy (and as much!) as I did before.

Of course, if I ate healthier I'd be healthier, so I'm not saying don't - just saying you only HAVE to hit one side of the 'eat less'/'do more' seesaw to start losing weight.


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## ColinJ (28 Jan 2012)

CopperCyclist said:


> You don't even need to eat less. Or eat healthy. Just do more instead!


Generally, that's good advice, but you seem to have missed this rather important clarification by BOAB ...


BigonaBianchi said:


> I am currently dropping down from what i consider to be the worst anti depressant out there (and I've done nearly all of them) citalopram. The fatigue it leaves you with is incredible..at these doses anyway. So yes I think my metabolism is slower than it was before and very ride is a battle at the moment.


Doing more is rather difficult if you are already exhausted doing not very much!

I've suffered from chronic fatigue like that a few times. One time I got so bad that I had to stop every 50 yards when carrying two bags of shopping back from the local market! (That was a few months after romping round some hilly 200 km audax rides, so it wasn't that I was desperately unfit.)


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## Becs (28 Jan 2012)

I'd say the only benefit to diet pills is the placebo effect, and a mild increase in fat burning efficiency from the caffeine ones. You'd be better off spending the money on high quality protein and leafy greens. Maybe try something like the my fitness pal app to help you count calories, although beware of it overestimating your exercise calories. Eating less doesn't automatically mean you'll feel more tired, quite the opposite in fact. Maybe you could ask your doctor whether you can talk to a nutritionist about how to manage things while you're coming off the anti depressants?


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## CopperCyclist (28 Jan 2012)

ColinJ said:


> Generally, that's good advice, but you seem to have missed this rather important clarification by BOAB ...



I did indeed miss that part, my apologies!


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## gb155 (29 Jan 2012)

fossyant said:


> CHECK YOUR THYROID.
> 
> Really.
> 
> My wife has been diagnosed with an under active one of these thingy's and it's taken a very very long time to get things better - doctors are clueless. Like many, she has digested the WEB, and know's more than the GP. Still not right, but it's going in the right direction. Your symptoms are typical though !


 

Mines under active, took about 5 years of medication to get it stable 

It's still "slower" than normal but much better than it was and has levelled out 

I cant say i recall how I used to feel as I everything was an effort a few years ago but if I make the mistake of missing a day or 2 of tables I soon know about it !


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## Ghost Donkey (31 Jan 2012)

If you're already on medication I would definitely avoid any weight loss medication. I suppose I would say to avoid this kind of thing anyway but combining medicines yourself is not a good idea. You should always play it on the safe side when it comes to matters of health. The are better ways to lose weight. If you took weight loss medicine, they worked and there were no negative side effects what next? Do you need to continue on the tablets to maintain your weight? If you return to your previous ways would you return to your previous weight? Then what?


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## BigonaBianchi (31 Jan 2012)

well the grenade arrived in th epost this morning...blimey ...it really is a grenade..looks like a ww2 bomb !

I read th einstructions and it says to just take one to start with to get used to it. I'm just back from a wintery ride so i'll leave it until the morning.

Yep I hear what you say above...GD..makes sense...only once i'm off the meds I'm guessing my metabolism will return to normal and then i'll stop the grenade...assuming I dont stop it after jus tone pill if it freaks me out tomorrow.


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## ttcycle (31 Jan 2012)

Reading your posts BOAB- have you checked with GP that there aren't any interactions with medicines?

Aside from that, If your body is withdrawing from the antidepressants then shoving a load of caffeine into your system doesn't necessarily address the issue.

I've been where you are but unfortunately just straight depression without the medication causing the effect. All I can say is I tried to force myself out on the bike and would end up knackering myself out and the depression would hit me the following day whilst I was exhausted and I'd be very low for the next three to five days. This was even the case for small low intensity rides - if your energy is low, caffeine doesn't give you more energy necessarily, it's the feeling of energy- somewhere you're still depleting your supplies.

Listen to your body, I know how important it is to get out and about and active to stave off the blues but if you're too fatigued to then do something less but outdoors. As you say, it's temporary whilst you sort medication so it's a matter of months when things should return to normal.


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## swampyseifer (31 Jan 2012)

Have you considered doing resistance training at a gym? The other day I did a really hard session (nearly an hour) and I had so many endorphines blowing through my veins that I then did another hour of cardio on top of that...

It made me feel great AND burnt a lot of calories!


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## Becs (31 Jan 2012)

BigonaBianchi said:


> well the grenade arrived in th epost this morning...blimey ...it really is a grenade..looks like a ww2 bomb !
> 
> I read th einstructions and it says to just take one to start with to get used to it. I'm just back from a wintery ride so i'll leave it until the morning.
> 
> Yep I hear what you say above...GD..makes sense...only once i'm off the meds I'm guessing my metabolism will return to normal and then i'll stop the grenade...assuming I dont stop it after jus tone pill if it freaks me out tomorrow.


 
225mg of caffeine per dose!!! That's 3 expressos in one, good luck with the shakes and tachycardia! I've had a quick look on pubmed for the so called "active-ingredients" of Grenade and not a single blinded placebo controlled trial or human pharmacokinetic study comes up. It is basically a couple of proplus with some other crap in it for which the safety data is missing. I think you are being incredibly foolish.

It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life in coming off the antidepressants - what does gaining few pounds matter in the grand scheme of things? You can always lose it later when you are feeling better. If exercise makes you tired this may well do the same. Drugs like this put untold stresses and strains on your heart and change levels of neurotransmitters in your brain and circulation (ever noticed how irritable caffeine addicts become when they don't get their coffee/diet coke/red bull?), but we don't know enough about them because the safety data isn't out there. The green tea extract it talks about can function as a potent anti-oxidant which may be good, in contrast there are papers out there that say that the muscles of people taking high levels of anti-oxidants don't adapt as well to exercise. Oxidative stress is an area I'm broadly covering in my PhD (in an area of muscle disease) and I have learnt that it's not something that should be taken lightly and messed about with! Many of the interventions that have been studied in the past actually make things worse when they were expected to make things better - this may be the case with grenade, but no one knows because people aren't required to look before these bullsh1t "neutraceuticals" hit the market.

You have been warned!


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## Globalti (31 Jan 2012)

I can recommend a simple weight-loss programme, which will work and will even save you money.

Wait for it:

Eat normally but cut out potatoes, bread, pasta and rice. Just stick to proteins (grilled meat and fish) and salads, vegetables and fruit. After your evening meal floss and clean your teeth, which will help you to avoid the temptation to snack.

Oh, and avoid anything with maltodextrin listed in the ingredients, that means cup-a-soup, pot noodles, instant gravy etc. 

Also avoid anything made with hydrogenated vegetable oil; pies, pasties, cakes, biscuits, sausage rolls etc. as hydrogenated vegetable oil tends to cause fat to accumulate inside the body cavity. 

Sorted.


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## amaferanga (31 Jan 2012)

Globalti said:


> I can recommend a simple weight-loss programme, which will work and will even save you money.
> 
> Wait for it:
> 
> ...


 
Great advice.... unless of course you want to fuel yourself to ride a bike and recover reasonably quickly.


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## yello (31 Jan 2012)

col said:


> And they gave me a lecture on what caffiene can do to you if you overdo it. It caused tachy eurithmia for me. People dont realise how bad for us it is, I now drink decaff.


 
People have died from caffeine overdose. I recall reading last year of a lad who died after a couple of Red Bull type drinks on top of a teaspoon of caffeine powder (as many people have to mix sports drinks).

It generally surprises me how small a quantity is needed to significantly effect you. I remember my brother suffering very worrying palpitations after a couple of flat whites (kinda like a latte) - scared us both.

So, yes, you have to be careful.


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## Ghost Donkey (31 Jan 2012)

amaferanga said:


> Great advice.... unless of course you want to fuel yourself to ride a bike and recover reasonably quickly.


 
You don't need carbs all day to fuel yourself for endurance sport. I manage fine as do a growing number of others I know. As always, the important bit is how you do it and what you eat when. I'd agree with a lot of what Globalti says. Each to their own of course. I've posted too many long posts about what I eat and why. I'd be happy to point anyone in the direction of good reading material *if* anyone's interested in my ramblings. I don't want to hijack another thread with my food choice rants . There is also the issue of the effects of the anti-depressants to consider in all of this.


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## Becs (31 Jan 2012)

Ghost Donkey said:


> You don't need carbs all day to fuel yourself for endurance sport. I manage fine as do a growing number of others I know. As always, the important bit is how you do it and what you eat when. I'd agree with a lot of what Globalti says. Each to their own of course. I've posted too many long posts about what I eat and why. I'd be happy to point anyone in the direction of good reading material *if* anyone's interested in my ramblings. I don't want to hijack another thread with my food choice rants . There is also the issue of the effects of the anti-depressants to consider in all of this.


 
Indeed - a guy on here was doing 100 milers every 3 or 4 weeks on the Dukan diet - he just allowed himself some carbs the night before and during the ride if I remember rightly. It takes a little while for the body to adjust (the first 20 mins of a ride might be tough) but running on fat rather than carbs is perfectly fine for low to moderate impact exercise, which lets face it most people's cycling is (unless you're racing etc). I'd never advocate a no carb diet (prolonged ketosis is not good for anyone) but low carb is perfectly fine!


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## yello (31 Jan 2012)

I'd like to add to the low carb debate.... but I won't, despite my interest in the subject! I think it's straying just a little too far from boab's questions which I feel are way more important than my musings on the subject.


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## Becs (31 Jan 2012)

Indeed:
"..so do any of you use or know of peeps that use these and if so which ones etc."

In summary most of us do not because we are not that stupid. They are useless at best and harmful at worst, therefore do some thing safer like cutting carbs and doing more exercise (+/- a cup of normal coffee beforehand). Don't beat yourself up if that's not possible, getting off the antidepressants should be the main aim and a few pounds can be sorted out later. Don't replace one (physiological) addiction with another. I think that about covers it.


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## BigonaBianchi (31 Jan 2012)

> Don't replace one (physiological) addiction with another. I think that about covers it.


 
I think this is a wise statement..and believe me I'm ttoally dodne with addicitions so it is something i am aware of. I dont drink any alcohol (not for 5 years now) and I dont smoke or do any kind of other drugs at all. I dont think therefore that i have an addcitive 'nature'.

The gPs are clueless as always..(sweeping statement alert lol!)...but I am convinced there is another answer to these ssri's. Part, and only part , of that alternative is diet...and generally i do eat a healthy (ish ) diet...no takeaways, no junk food (except biscuits and the odd bit of cake ..much liek many on here I suspect). My blood pressure is optimum the gp says. So....as I exercise a lot for aguy of my 'maturity' (!) ...I am left thinking that it's not just my life circumstances (which i wont go into here but they have been somewhat 'uncertain' for the last 3 years really)..but that it could be heriditary (which i cannot change if it is)..or it's a diet thing perhaps. Apparently seratonin is not able to be produced in the body alone. It HAS to come from the food we eat. Not only that but it requires an amino acid called tryptophan .

Tryptophan is found in certain foods like turkey and whey protien, salmon and white fish. It is this amino acid that 'kick starts' the production of seratonin from the food we eat. So if it is absent or to low I guess it makes jack a dull boy.

Carbs give a more instant feel good feeling, and as such cutting them isnt a great plan...but I thik I am right in saying that it has to be the right type of carbs...complex carbs. So a simple sugar hit makes you feel better for a while then you get hit with fatigue. Maybe I'm eating the wrong carbs. I do have a bowl of podge each morning with muesli and wholemeal bread tuna sandwiches at lunchtime ...anyway I digress.

I found this article interesting:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TheSeer/seratonin.html

So ...Boabs plan for now is...

continue on the med reduction as per GP plan (sooner I am off this shoot the better)
Exercise more..this is where a temporary boost of energy (grenade) should help me fight through th efatigue enough to get some benefit...and then make sure I am eating the right foods that give me tryptophan so as to aid the natural production of seratonin as the pills reduce.

I think all that means...less pills...more bike...eat massive turkey sandwiches and drink whey protien shakes (as part of a sensible diet)...the grenade thing is simply a means to get me riding more by fighting through the current excessive fatigue which the doc said was most likely a side effect of the citalopram withdrawel.

Hmmm...I'm no gp though....but not on egp in many years has EVER even mentioned anything other than keep increasing the pills and keep cycling.





tryptophan


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## Becs (31 Jan 2012)

I have a feeling such a large amount of caffeine will increase your fatigue in the long run and completely bugger up the length and quality of your sleep, which may have a knock on effect on your depression. But if you are determined to try them then pay close attention to the strength and rate of your pulse and do not take further doses if these are not normal. Also stop all tea, coffee, soft drinks etc.

There's also a lot of tryptophan in cheese - it's why it gives you funny dreams!


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## BigonaBianchi (1 Feb 2012)

well...I nearly got defeated at the first hurdle...couldnt get the lid off the grenade!...how stupid is this packaging?...fun though..Boooooom!

Took just one pill and havent stopped sneezing since


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## ttcycle (1 Feb 2012)

Oh BOAB mate, I really do have some reservations about this stuff, I echo what Becs says- bad, bad news...

I think if you find that the SSRI's aren't working for you I understand the need to come off them. This will take a bit of time and it seems like you're stacking it all up together and not giving yourself room to do it. Ie too many goals together. Basically, if you're riding it will produce endorphins and serotonin, (as well as others such as dopamine and GABA) however if you're depleted already or as an effect of the medication the uptake of Serotonin is inhibited to allow more to float around in your system. Wait for this to clear up first as you may be using up more of your current stores of Serotonin or what not (as they are associated). The grenade is not going to address the issue and to be frank may well worsen the case with fatigue..you're messing around with your body, the different energy uses etc are not at their normal capcity right now. Seriously,. give yourself time, at 6 months you will be able to ride the amount you want until then take it easy on yourself. 

Trust me I am speaking from experience of being exhausted and fatigued - I was in bed for three weeks straight - it feels like it's never going to get better but that is just the mind telling you things that keeps you negatie. In the scheme of things you need to do what you need to do but a period of a few months might be what you need to rebalance yourself..all the best with it mate, it's not easy.


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## BigonaBianchi (1 Feb 2012)

yep..I hear you mate..thing is I've been on this stuff for years not months..and I've been reducing it over a period of a year already..so...I'm fed up with this stuff dictating what i can and cant do..so...I guess it's a case of let's just see what happens if I change something because the not changing anyhting is simply keeping me in th esame position and I dont like that. I'm only going to take half the suggested dose and only on days when I ride a good distance.

Have jus tbeen out and got a load of turkey and a whey protien shake mix...for getting the trpto wots name into me..lets see if it helps..


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## BigonaBianchi (3 Feb 2012)

2 days in and so far so good..I havent noticed any increase in anxiety and the fatigue is a bit lower...enough to get me in the pool and doing 100 lengths today....but I'm about ready to pass out in a heap now ha ha!....I'm only doing 2 pills aday atm though...and today was one of the 'good days' fatigue wise.

Cant be doing with that silly grenade packaging though...so it's toast. Actually i'm surprised they can get away with it..it's totally appealling to the average 8-14 year old lad...

would look great next to their blue stratus I guess.


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## BigonaBianchi (4 Feb 2012)

i have been drinking green tea by th ebucketfull recently...i used to drink it all th etime just because i like it..i never really knew of its weight loss qualities


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## Milo (4 Feb 2012)

Thats what you need. Good luck with the mental illness and the willy shriking though.


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## BigonaBianchi (4 Feb 2012)

> willy shriking



?????????????????????


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## Milo (5 Feb 2012)

Amphetamines although great for suppressing hunger have a number of rather horrid side effects one of which is making your willy smaller whilst under its effects. Something to do with vasoconstriction maybe? And I would highly recommend that ephedrine is left alone as I seem to remember someone mentioning it in this thread.


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## redcard (5 Feb 2012)

Milo said:


> Thats what you need. Good luck with the mental illness and the willy shriking though.



You don't work for the Daily Mail, do you?


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## BigonaBianchi (5 Feb 2012)

I checked on the label for the grenade and it says nothing about penis size reduction ....might not be such a bad thing in my case anyway J O K E A L E R T.

who is that in the picture?


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## lulubel (5 Feb 2012)

BOAB, you said in an earlier post that you're managing to do 75-100 miles a week. That isn't a small amount of exercise. I've lost 2 stone over the last 9 months doing that kind of mileage and eating sensibly.

If you really are taking in a sensible amount of calories, you should be able to lose weight easily at that exercise level. (My partner is on Citalopram for anxiety, she cycles a similar distance each week - maybe up to 120 miles some weeks - and the weight drops off her if she doesn't take care to eat enough. Her BMI is already down to 19, and she doesn't want it to get any lower, so she boosts her calorie intake by eating cake twice a day on top of her 3 meals and healthy snacks.)

My point is, it sounds like there might be something else wrong that's stopping you losing weight. Taking these tablets might help in the short term, but if there is an underlying problem, you may find it gets worse if you don't find out what it is and deal with it.


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## BigonaBianchi (5 Feb 2012)

yeah i had thought the same thing...so I had th edocs do some tests..thyroid etc...and they are all clear. I think it may just be in my genes...well actually I am convinced its the meds still...my nervous system was shot to crap ...and they put me on citalopram...which is jus tabout the worst thing they could have done for anxiety...which shot to uncontrollable levels at 60mg...which i was on for a few years. As the dosage drops the anxiety reduces dramatically making my point that they cause not help anxiety in my experience.

Anxiety isnt something that can be cured by a pill...it has to do with the amigdala in your brian..the fear centre if you will. I have been working on re setting that to 'normal ' levels...following something called the lindon method...google it..it works. The only way to cure (not mask) anxiety (and I mean serious extreme level anxiety not jus t massive nerves) is to re programme the amigdala..to do this you have to override the fear...reject it..and do it constantly..in every action, word yopu do. IN fact me even talking about it on hear is breaking one of the 9 pillars of the lindon method.

Withdrawel from citalopram for me has led to EXTREME fatigue...comotosed sometimes...it feels like that anyway..dont forget im not dropping from a small dose like 20mg 60mg for 3 years is HIGH dose...my gp tells me many many people at that dose never come off it.


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