# Bike fast fit app



## Cuchilo (18 Jan 2015)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bike-fast-fit/id710935084?mt=8
Looks like a good little app to me for finding out what you are doing on the bikes . No idea how good it is though . Any opinions ?


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## bpsmith (18 Jan 2015)

I am intrigued by this too. Reviews look very good, but who knows who they are by.

The concept is sound, but will depend on the users knowledge to some degree too. Worth a punt for £3.99?

Clearly it won't replace a real bike fit though. Depends on what you're trying to achieve?


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Ive bought it and think its rather good for looking at what you are doing . If you take a video of you on a turbo and then calibrate the video to a known measurement it can then tell you what other things are going on . I'm still getting the hang of the app and I doubt its the most accurate but it gives you some kind of insight into how changing or moving a component can change your position .
I've yet to work out how to save a file or picture on it so I can post it here though .
You're right it wont replace a real bike fit as once we have all the information we need we wont know what to do with it


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

You can take a screenshot on your iPhone at any time. Just hold the power button and press the home button and then release both. 

I have Phil Burt's excellent bike fit book too, but difficult to measure on your own, which is where this App comes in.


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

bpsmith said:


> You can take a screenshot on your iPhone at any time. Just hold the power button and press the home button and then release both.
> 
> I have Phil Burt's excellent bike fit book too, *but difficult to measure on your own, which is where this App comes in.*



Use Kinovea to make the measurements.


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Just a quick example . You move the yellow dots to the points marked on your body as instructed by the app and it will tell you the angle .







You can then play and pause the movie and get new angles as you ride . The main problem I have right now is trying to save the data .
Anyhow , according to this app , my knee angle should be between 143 and 155 degrees so my saddle needs to go up a little .
If its correct , how good is that !
I just don't know if its correct


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

That pic is very dark so hard to see but based on what I can make out, the dots don't look to be in the right place and/or the crank is not at it's bottom most point.


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> That pic is very dark so hard to see but based on what I can make out, the dots don't look to be in the right place and/or the crank is not at it's bottom most point.


I thought you would pick up on that  You can actually zoom in on the pointer and get a very good placing on the dots placed on your body . My picture was just me messing about with the app last night so the lighting is rubbish and also just a quick example of what it does . You are correct and I should have taken a bit more time on the example posted here .


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

If that image is just you messing about what is your knee angle when you do it properly?


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Well seeing as you asked I've done it again as properly as I know how 






You can zoom in and pick your points like this .


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> Use Kinovea to make the measurements.


Looks good, but no app for it?


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Well seeing as you asked I've done it again as properly as I know how
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would be putting the points at the centre of the leg at each point, so that the yellow lined oldies the line of your leg, rather than on the actual bones at knee and hip. That's usually how they measure when you have an old school bike fit. Otherwise the angle will be rather different and prompt you to move components when not required.


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

bpsmith said:


> I would be putting the points at the centre of the leg at each point, so that the yellow lined oldies the line of your leg, rather than on the actual bones at knee and hip. That's usually how they measure when you have an old school bike fit. Otherwise the angle will be rather different and prompt you to move components when not required.


The app told me to locate certain parts of my bone structure and mark them with a dot , Then join the dots up to get the results .
That's why there is a little sticker with a red dot on my elbow , or did you think I cut myself shaving my arms


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

bpsmith said:


> I would be putting the points at the centre of the leg at each point, so that the yellow lined oldies the line of your leg, rather than on the actual bones at knee and hip. That's usually how they measure when you have an old school bike fit. Otherwise the angle will be rather different and prompt you to move components when not required.



He should be putting the dots at the joints, as per the app or the book, which is based around the Retul system.


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

I was thinking along these lines. That's how I was measured the old school way, with protractor type thing. Lol.


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

Retül video from their website shows similar for positioning?


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

Arguably that is just a case of a poorly drawn diagram (note the ankle dot and hip dot are where the joints would roughly be, it is only the knee point that is way off) and the true intention is to measure along lines passing through the joints, who knows. But go with the joints.


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

On a different note, have either of you guys had a Retül done?


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

I have not because with regard to *my* riding interests, the correct bike fit is the fastest one, a Retul or any other bike fit of this kind can not provide you with the information required to achieve this. Just look at the recommended range of angles quoted above as the recommended range, that is a huge range, one which could well be equivalent to several cm variance in saddle height, a range so large it could have HUGE impacts on both power production and aerodynamics, something a bike fit system like Retul can not evaluate.

I make changes (sometimes based on advice, sometimes on a hunch or educated guess, sometimes out of curiosity) and then using trial and error, test them in the real world, I then use Kinovea to make measurements where appropriate and record them.

The only serious thought I have given to a "professional fit" beyond going to the wind tunnel or having an aero testing consultation on a velodrome, is to get my cleat position (angle and side to side position) looked at, which I will probably do because I can not get 100% happy with the right foot.


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

and i'll just say no


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

Only asking, as wondering what it's like in reality. Rather expensive tbh. I had my bikes fitted the old school way when I bought them, but been tweaking since noticing that my saddle was as far back as they can go on both bikes and was pretty certain this East the case when they were done. Should have made a note of their position tbh but too late now. I feel that I have lost power too, which might be down to the saddle position, hence the tweaking.

I think I will invest in the App and see how I get on. Will post back when I have given it a go.


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

It shows you how to locate the points in the app


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

I think with this it would be easy to keep track of things and changes . For example , if I adjust my saddle to get my knee angle at the top end of the range then I know the adjustments I can make on my saddle and still be in the guideline range for optimal output  I can then ride the bike and test what is the best for me within that range .


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## maltloaf (19 Jan 2015)

For anyone that's interested there's a similar (although not as comprehensive app) available for android.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mantapix.android.theroadiebikefit

I've bought it but not had time to try it yet


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> I think with this it would be easy to keep track of things and changes . For example , if I adjust my saddle to get my knee angle at the top end of the range then I know the adjustments I can make on my saddle and still be in the guideline range for optimal output  I can then ride the bike and test what is the best for me within that range .



And what if the optimal angle is outside of that range?  As is the case for a few of the fastest (and known to be super aero) domestic timetriallist's (I am talking in a race context since it seemed to be the new TT bike that set you off on your bike fitting quest ).


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> And what if the optimal angle is outside of that range?  As is the case for a few of the fastest (and known to be super aero) domestic timetriallist's (I am talking in a race context since it seemed to be the new TT bike that set you off on your bike fitting quest ).


I understand what you are saying and it's for me to find out but I need to learn the basics first before I start to look outside of those right ? You need to know the boundaries before you can start pushing them ?


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## Rob3rt (19 Jan 2015)

I was just teasing you...


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## Cuchilo (19 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> I was just teasing you...


Yeah well , you made me cry !


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## bpsmith (19 Jan 2015)

That's my plan. Get back to basics within the parameters advised by the App. Then try out the extremes, before testing slightly outside of that if required.


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## Cuchilo (21 Jan 2015)

How are you finding the app @bpsmith ? Had time to play yet ?


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## bpsmith (21 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> How are you finding the app @bpsmith ? Had time to play yet ?


Not bought it yet, but planning on doing so. Got the bike stripped for a good clean up and chain, brakes and pedal replacement.

Will wax the frame when stripped too! 

Then a full refit with the App once done. Definitely going to get it though.


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## Cuchilo (21 Jan 2015)

ahhh ok . Ive been having a bit of a play , still a bit messy but better than the last one  Apart from cutting my top half off !
You can slow the vid down in the app so things are not popping up and away so fast .
Now ive got to try and get it on here


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## jiberjaber (21 Jan 2015)

What this doesn't do, which a in person bike fit does, is measure your actual ranges of flexibility - that's what the bike fitter then should use to ensure a comfortable fit (subject to the purpose of your riding desire). Your physical dimensions may give some recommendations, but if not aligned to your actual flexibility then its probably going to be uncomfortable. So whilst this is all quoting ranges, its where your body is relative to that range which might be more important. 

Now if they could add something like measuring body flexibility to the app it would be quite good... though its not a bad start at the idea.


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## Cuchilo (21 Jan 2015)

I agree that it cant do everything a pro bike fit can but personally I'm not using it for that purpose . I'm using it to look at what I am doing while also learning what I want / need to do .
One of the vids I took I slid forward on the saddle and then sat back on the saddle while keeping the same position on the bars . When looking at this with the app and taking the angles I noticed that my knee angle varied by 8* . That 8* would bring the angle within the recommended range and confirmed my thoughts that the saddle could maybe go back a little rather than up .
Weather the recommended range is the correct position for me is another story but for now playing with the recommended ranges and looking at what changes on the bike do to the positions of my body is quite a good learning experience .


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## User6179 (21 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> ahhh ok . Ive been having a bit of a play , still a bit messy but better than the last one  Apart from cutting my top half off !
> You can slow the vid down in the app so things are not popping up and away so fast .
> Now ive got to try and get it on here



If you paid £50 for that seat then you are only sitting on £10.50s worth


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## User6179 (21 Jan 2015)

Cant see your back properly but looks like you are bending with your back instead of your pelvis which is why your on the edge of the seat and your knee is way past KOPS by the look of it ,well that's my amateur opinion


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## Cuchilo (21 Jan 2015)

Eddy said:


> Cant see your back properly but looks like you are bending with your back instead of your pelvis which is why your on the edge of the seat and your knee is way past KOPS by the look of it ,well that's my amateur opinion


Yes I'm over it by 912mm so again suggesting my seat could go back .
I'm not sure I'm bending with my back but I will check what I am doing with regards to that this evening  and I paid a lot more than £50 for the seat


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## User6179 (21 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Yes I'm over it by 912mm so again suggesting my seat could go back .
> I'm not sure I'm bending with my back but I will check what I am doing with regards to that this evening  and I paid a lot more than £50 for the seat



You also seem to be on your tip toes , suggest your cleats are forward on the shoes , fine if that is where you like them but I found it hurt my calf muscles and I get more power down with the cleats all the way as far back as they go which is backed up by some research done on time trialling , forward cleat position better for sprinting/climbing .
If I was you I would start with cleat position as if you get everything else perfect and then adjust cleats it will mess everything else up again .


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## Cuchilo (21 Jan 2015)

That's something I have noticed before but didn't realise how much it was until now . The cleats are just where I like them , or how I had them for the road bikes . I might try moving them but I remember playing with them before and they ended up where they are now .


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## Rob3rt (21 Jan 2015)

Re. KOPS, it is not really relevant for a TT bike fit.


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## User6179 (21 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> That's something I have noticed before but didn't realise how much it was until now . The cleats are just where I like them , or how I had them for the road bikes . I might try moving them but I remember playing with them before and they ended up where they are now .



If your happy keep them where they are , I know the trouble it causes if you move them from what you are used to .


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## bpsmith (15 Mar 2015)

Downloaded the App in January and still not used it. Going to set up soon and give it a proper go on the trainer.

In the meantime, I have been trying it out using the demo video in the App.

Am I mistaken, but I assumed that it did realtime angles based on where you positioned the points. What I mean is, I thought this then traced those points when you hit play. Basically giving you moving real time angles, allowing you to see the max and min angles for any given metric. Am I completely off the mark here @Cuchilo ?


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## Cuchilo (15 Mar 2015)

No it doesn't trace them but you can slow down the vid and pause it at any point you want . Then join the dots up to give you a new angle . Given that the points and angles you need to know are specific there's no need to know what angle your leg or arm is unless its at that point . Is there ?


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## bpsmith (15 Mar 2015)

Such is true. I just thought it tracked them and could save time getting the average as your body moves around. At least I know it doesn't do it, instead if faffing for ages in vain!

Going to give it a shot this week sometime, albeit awkward without a tripod.


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