# Shot at!



## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

I was on my way home when I heard a loud crack from the side of my helmet. There's a hole in the shell of the helmet with an air-gun pellet embedded in the expanded polystyrene underneath! I've told the police, though I don't think there is much they can do; I couldn't see anyone nearby when I stopped to look.


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## Arch (7 Mar 2011)

Sh1t! Glad you're ok. There are some right pricks out there. Could have blinded you.

I suppose it's possible the local plod will have a list of likely scroats to keep an eye on.


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

Arch said:


> Sh1t! Glad you're ok. There are some right pricks out there. Could have blinded you.
> I suppose it's possible the local plod will have a list of likely scroats to keep an eye on.



Thanks Arch.


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## Ibbots (7 Mar 2011)

That's pretty scary, where did it happen? I've had a bottle thrown at me on the dual carriageway bit and a pint glass in Pendlebury in the past but this is something else.

Glad you were not hurt


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## cyberknight (7 Mar 2011)

Holy c**p !!

Glad you are ok , without you seeing the culprits i am afraid there is not much the plod can do . 

And .....

See helmets do have their uses ( runs and hides from the fallout )


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## guitarpete247 (7 Mar 2011)

If the police don't do anything that will be disgusting. As the pellet embedded in your helmet that's as good (bad) as attempted murder. Being shot at, in the head, is serious. They usually catch the scrotes who fire air weapons at people it's probably someone firing from their house. Keep pushing it with the boys in blue. Get the story in the local press if they don't seem too concerned with you.


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

Ibbots said:


> That's pretty scary, where did it happen? I've had a bottle thrown at me on the dual carriageway bit and a pint glass in Pendlebury in the past but this is something else.
> 
> Glad you were not hurt



Thanks. It wasn't in Salford, it was on the stretch of Manchester Road that runs parallel to St Peter's Way just after leaving Moses Gate going towards Bolton. Almost level with the junction of Rowena Street. It could have come from the houses on the left there.

It's interesting that this sort of thing is one of the reasons I prefer to tackle various busy roundabouts and main roads rather than taking the back-roads, though in this instance I was on a main road.


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## gavintc (7 Mar 2011)

That is quite impressive shooting to aim off and to hit a moving target. 

However, good shooting or not, this is completely unacceptable and I do hope the police take it seriously. If the cops do not take this one further, it might be worth going to the local papers.


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## Mr Crash (7 Mar 2011)

That is more than a twat that did that.


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## david1701 (7 Mar 2011)

air rifles count as fire arms so the offence comes under the fire arms laws and they get real tetchy about those so hopefully something will be done


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

My poor helmet!


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

david1701 said:


> air rifles count as fire arms so the offence comes under the fire arms laws and they get real tetchy about those so hopefully something will be done



They do seem to be taking it seriously. I have an appointment for an officer to ring me back this evening. It's just that, unless they have other reports, I don't see that there's much they can do. All I can give them is a time and place.


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## Ibbots (7 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> Thanks. It wasn't in Salford, it was on the stretch of Manchester Road that runs parallel to St Peter's Way just after leaving Moses Gate going towards Bolton. Almost level with the junction of Rowena Street. It could have come from the houses on the left there.
> 
> It's interesting that this sort of thing is one of the reasons I prefer to tackle various busy roundabouts and main roads rather than taking the back-roads, though in this instance I was on a main road.



I know the spot, usually just dodging side swipes from vans and buses there. Having to duck and swerve too is going make it extremely hazardous.


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## buggi (7 Mar 2011)

there have been cases of people dying from air pellets. i heard of one girl who go shot in the ribs and the pellet nicked an artery. dead in minutes.


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## MrHappyCyclist (7 Mar 2011)

Ibbots said:


> I know the spot, usually just dodging side swipes from vans and buses there. Having to duck and swerve too is going make it extremely hazardous.



It certainly is. I wonder whether it's better to take primary or secondary position when being shot at?


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## Adasta (7 Mar 2011)

buggi said:


> there have been cases of people dying from air pellets. i heard of one girl who go shot in the ribs and the pellet nicked an artery. dead in minutes.



It's the Ashley Cole effect...


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## Ibbots (7 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> It certainly is. I wonder whether it's better to take primary or secondary position when being shot at?



I am not sure but think I'll take the full tuck/cowering option tomorrow.


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## SlowerThanASluggishSloth (7 Mar 2011)

.
I hope you will be able to encourage the police to take this very seriously. You are not the only cyclist to use this route (e.g. skudupnorth) and if the perpertrator reckons they can get away with it, they'll have another go, perhaps with more serious consequences. 

Oh, and maybe tomorrow, ditch the hi-vis


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## JonnyBlade (7 Mar 2011)

How incredibly lucky are you! I really do think the police will follow this up, there are far too many fruit cakes out on the street. You never know, it might not be the first time and might help them further their enquiries.


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## som3blok3 (7 Mar 2011)

Jeezz, that's sh!t. Scary stuff!!!! Glad you're ok though. 

I think that deserves third position, commando roll off the bike, slide the PPK from your sock and shoot back, Bond styleee.

Jokes aside, hope the little sh!ts get caught (they've gotta be kids) and a heavy book thrown at them. When I was a kid I was shooting tin cans out of my bedroom window with a 'Gat Gun' but the damm cork would always go the wrong way. Got shot in the leg with an airgun pellet when I was 14, and 20 years later I've still got the scar. 

Heads are somewhat more sensitive than legs though.


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## gaz (7 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> [attachment=2567:PelletHole.jpg]
> My poor helmet!



your helmet saved your life. had to say it


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## Bollo (7 Mar 2011)

+Sheet! Glad you're ok MGC. Even I'd be surprised if plod don't take this one very seriously. Still, at least the bike didn't get hit


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## Jezston (8 Mar 2011)

Something like this is proper serious - I I'd expect they'd at the very least be doing a door to door in the vicinity asking who has air rifles. If someone's parent knows their kid has one and they may be shooting passers by with it I expect they'll be taking pretty serious action themselves!


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## Adasta (8 Mar 2011)

Jezston said:


> If someone's parent knows their kid has one and they may be shooting passers by with it I expect they'll be taking pretty serious action themselves!



I wouldn't count on it. Children are now little more than an extension of their parents' defective egos. Chastising a child for bad behaviour is akin to the parent admitting failure to raise him/her correctly. A lot of parents would do nothing at all.


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## MrHappyCyclist (8 Mar 2011)

Quick update. The police didn't manage to call me last night, but they called this morning, and I will be meeting an officer tomorrow and showing them where the incident happened. They do seem to be taking it seriously. I'll post any further progress here if people are interested.


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## Ibbots (8 Mar 2011)

think I caught sight of you this morning turning off into Salford Cresc station (I wasn't the chap hassling your back wheel just as you made the turn, the one behind him /stalkerblog), surprised you to see you in normal bike gear instead of full urban camo lycra - though there's room for a bullet proof vest under that jacket. Good to see you carrying on as I'm sure such an incident would put many of us off for a while.

Please post an update on response from the police in due course.


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## Bman (8 Mar 2011)

Jezston said:


> Something like this is proper serious - I I'd expect they'd at the very least be doing a door to door in the vicinity *asking who has air rifles.* If someone's parent knows their kid has one and they may be shooting passers by with it I expect they'll be taking pretty serious action themselves!




The police should already know this. Just as when you buy a TV, the licensing authority are informed, when you buy an airgun, the police are informed.


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## BSRU (8 Mar 2011)

Bongman said:


> The police should already know this. Just as when you buy a TV, the licensing authority are informed, when you buy an airgun, the police are informed.



Assuming they give their real address, last year I had a letter from TV licensing about a newly purchased TV that had been bought by the previous owner of our house, they moved out ten years ago.


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## Keith Oates (8 Mar 2011)

Scary stuff that MGC, glad you're OK but i hope the police find out who fired the gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bollo (8 Mar 2011)

Bongman said:


> The police should already know this. Just as when you buy a TV, the licensing authority are informed, when you buy an airgun, the police are informed.


Fraid not. You can buy an airrifle under a specified maximum power (12ft lbs from memory) without any form of licence. You have to prove you're 18 if you're buying from a registered supplier though. There are plenty of rules about where you can fire it, and 'at cyclists' is certainly not legal.


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## Jezston (8 Mar 2011)

Bongman said:


> The police should already know this. Just as when you buy a TV, the licensing authority are informed, when you buy an airgun, the police are informed.



Not if the kid got it off his dodgy mate or whatnot.

I didn't realise you needed to register such a thing. Does this only apply to metal pellet firing gas guns? Just I err own a few electric air guns (used for playing Airsoft) that fire plastic pellets and didn't need to register them.


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## Bman (8 Mar 2011)

Its the retailer who has to worry about all that. You dont have to register it as such. I just remember when buying my rifle (less than 13 foot per pound so no license required) I legally had to provide my address to the shop, so they could provide it to the police.


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## benb (8 Mar 2011)

You were lucky. Imagine the trauma if they had chipped the paint on your bike!

Do keep us informed, hopefully they'll have a good idea about who did it.
I wonder if they can do a ballistics match on the pellet, CSI style?


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## MrHappyCyclist (8 Mar 2011)

benb said:


> You were lucky. Imagine the trauma if they had chipped the paint on your bike!


You obviously haven't seen my bike. It's 20 years old and still has all original parts. 
(I have a new one on order. )



benb said:


> Do keep us informed, hopefully they'll have a good idea about who did it.
> I wonder if they can do a ballistics match on the pellet, CSI style?


I wondered about that. The officer I spoke to this morning did ask whether the pellet is still embedded in my helmet.


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## Brahan (8 Mar 2011)

Close shave - lucky you had your helmet on huh? Surely that MUST draw a line under the 'Helmet Debate'  

PS. got to admit (although I don't know how far the assailant was) that it was a pretty good shot. 

Glad you're ok.


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## Ravenbait (8 Mar 2011)

Holy crap. Glad you're not hurt. That's unreal.

Hope the police manage to catch the little [expletive deleted].

Sam


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## Matthames (8 Mar 2011)

You are very very lucky there. I just hope they find who did this and the armed police give them an early morning wake up call.


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## MrHappyCyclist (8 Mar 2011)

Brahan said:


> PS. got to admit (although I don't know how far the assailant was) that it was a pretty good shot.


Or they might have been trying to hit me for the last 6 months!


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## ufkacbln (8 Mar 2011)

Brahan said:


> Close shave - lucky you had your helmet on huh? Surely that MUST draw a line under the 'Helmet Debate'
> 
> PS. got to admit (although I don't know how far the assailant was) that it was a pretty good shot.
> 
> Glad you're ok.



Certainly another pellet nail in the coffin for vented helmets?



But back on topic, these incidents need to be dealt with seriously as they can and have been fatal!

Link


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## davefb (8 Mar 2011)

even if the pellet hadn't actually caused any damage, that is NOT a road to be suddenly moving about because you felt something sting you...

was using that route too, not nice at all.... 


still, good shot... :-/


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## HLaB (8 Mar 2011)

My Dad has got a bit of a scar on his neck from a pellet shot at him when he was a kid; quite a few folk have lost eyes too and there was that poor wee toddler killed in Glasgow a while back; I'm not surprised that the Police are taking it seriously. I hope they catch them.


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## tongskie01 (8 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> It certainly is. I wonder whether it's better to take primary or secondary position when being shot at?



you better take the walk path. at least your off the road if you take a dive.


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## tongskie01 (8 Mar 2011)

davefb said:


> even if the pellet hadn't actually caused any damage, that is NOT a road to be suddenly moving about because you felt something sting you...
> 
> was using that route too, not nice at all....
> 
> ...



im sure the shooter isnt that far. in my experience 30 to 50 yards is effective range for an air rifle.


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## Smokin Joe (8 Mar 2011)

The police are not informed of the buyers of air guns, but the shop has to take your details and keep a record. I have bought two this year, one shop required proof of ID the other didn't.

The law does not apply to sales between private individuals.


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## Brains (8 Mar 2011)

Remember this one - Trevor Hone's wife Jill - still in a coma


"The owner of a record label is in a critical condition after being shot accidentally with an air rifle by her son. 



Jill Sinclair, the businesswoman and film producer who set up ZTT Records with her husband, Trevor Horn, 23 years ago, was shot in the neck by her son Aaron who was playing with an air rifle in the garden of their home near Henley, Oxfordshire.

The pellet, which was fired by the 22-year-old during a target practice session, hit an artery.

Ms Sinclair, who was rushed to hospital in Reading on Sunday, remains unconscious in the intensive care unit. A spokesman for the company said the 54-year-old was in a critical condition, but was stable.

"It was a complete accident," he said. "It was a real freak occurrence that her son was shooting at some targets in the garden and wasn't aware that she was close by.

"Purely accidentally she took a pellet in the neck. She is stable but critical. She is under deep sedation and in an induced coma."

He said it was too early to tell whether Ms Sinclair would suffer brain damage from the injury.

Ms Sinclair formed ZTT Records in 1983, the label that signed Frankie Goes To Hollywood and The Art of Noise. In the 1990s, ZTT became a successful dance label featuring artists such as Seal and Adamski.The former maths teacher married Mr Horn 26 years ago. He went on to record hit single "Video Killed The Radio Star" with the Buggles.

The couple, who also have a home in St John's Wood, London, have four children, - their son and three daughters, the youngest of whom is 11. It is understood that Aaron was at home from university for the weekend when the accident happened. "


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## nightoff (8 Mar 2011)

When being shot at it's better to keep switching from primary to secondary in a zig zag fashion.


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## HLaB (8 Mar 2011)

tongskie01 said:


> you better take the walk path. at least your off the road if you take a dive.




But you are an easier target !


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## Chilternrides (9 Mar 2011)

Bloody Hell!
If this happened to me, and I could locate the perpetrator, then this is one of the few occasions when I would deem high speed fist to nose interaction appropriate.

The other one would be getting spat at.


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## Bman (9 Mar 2011)

Not always wise if the perpetrator has got a gun. Much better let the police deal with it.

They have laser sights on their MP5's. Apparantly (according to a friend), they have the desired effect when aimed at your forehead


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## ufkacbln (9 Mar 2011)

Sorted!


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2011)

reiver said:


> *No road tax and you go out without a bullet proof vest on, these bloody cyclist deserve all they get!*
> 
> 
> Seriously though, very disappointed in the response from the police, they should have the whole area closed down and every house within a 100m searched with the fire arms squad in attendance, doesn't get much more serious than this.
> ...



How's a bullet proof vest going to stop a shot to the head?


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## skudupnorth (9 Mar 2011)

Thats my route to work !! Will be a bit more nervouse tomorrow now i know there is another danger other than the tits in vans and buses trying to squeeze me into the gutter near this lunatic ! What time did this happen ? It's a rubbish section of road which ever way you are going now that there are roadworks going towards Moses Gate and the massive potholes just past the railway station.
Going to where my helmet again,can't stand the thing but now i've seen the state of yours it does make you think.


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## MrHappyCyclist (9 Mar 2011)

skudupnorth said:


> Thats my route to work !! Will be a bit more nervouse tomorrow now i know there is another danger other than the tits in vans and buses trying to squeeze me into the gutter near this lunatic ! What time did this happen ? It's a rubbish section of road which ever way you are going now that there are roadworks going towards Moses Gate and the massive potholes just past the railway station.
> Going to where my helmet again,can't stand the thing but now i've seen the state of yours it does make you think.


Google map reference 53.55887,-2.403456 going towards Bolton at 17.14 on Monday 7th March.

When I look at my helmet, I do start to think: "what if I hadn't been wearing it?".


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## MrHappyCyclist (9 Mar 2011)

Update: I met with a police officer this evening (after fighting a 20mph headwind for 10 miles - not fun when you have an appointment). A lovely young lady officer (irrelevant, but true), who seemed extremely concerned. She seemed less pessimistic than I about what can be achieved with the scant information I was able to give. She is going to investigate possible CCTV cameras in the area. I got the impression that there are many more cameras about than you can easily see. So far, I have been quite impressed with how seriously they are taking it.


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## classic33 (9 Mar 2011)

Well lets hope that in the meantime no-one else gets shot at in the area. And at least your okay, which is the most important thing.


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## clarion (9 Mar 2011)

Flippin eck!


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## skudupnorth (9 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> Google map reference 53.55887,-2.403456 going towards Bolton at 17.14 on Monday 7th March.
> 
> When I look at my helmet, I do start to think: "what if I hadn't been wearing it?".



Thats what i was thinking regarding the helmet,very scary.I'm half way home to by the time you pass the other way,maybe the drug addicts wake up at that time a decide to have some fun ! Lets hope the Police really do something,it's not a trivial case like none seatbelt wearing ect,this is a seriouse case of someone wanting to cause harm with a firearm !
Take care out there,hope to see you one day


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## skudupnorth (10 Mar 2011)

Missed me this morning,Mrs Skud would not me leave the house without my helmet !!! Had a look over towards where they could have a shot to see if there were any windows open,never thought i would have to look out for shooters on my commute.....even through Little Hulton !


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## Black Sheep (10 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> I was on my way home when I heard a loud crack from the side of my helmet. There's a hole in the shell of the helmet with an air-gun pellet embedded in the expanded polystyrene underneath! I've told the police, though I don't think there is much they can do; I couldn't see anyone nearby when I stopped to look.




They should be able to look up who in that area owns an air rifle and go hunting



david1701 said:


> air rifles count as fire arms so the offence comes under the fire arms laws and they get real tetchy about those so hopefully something will be done



when selling air rifles we have to have a copy of the buyers passport / driving license, take a note of their address and the police have that information.


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## Ticktockmy (10 Mar 2011)

When I was a kid, air rifles were really powerful, Ie the BSA Air sporter, if a slug from one of those had hit you in the helmet it wuold have killed you.
But seriously, you where lucky it was your helmet, just a few inches diffrence and the story could be diffrent.

For sure the police will follow it up, as it assualt, and you where lucky then, but next time it could end up with someones death.


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## Smokin Joe (10 Mar 2011)

Black Sheep said:


> They should be able to look up who in that area owns an air rifle and go hunting
> 
> when selling air rifles we have to have a copy of the buyers passport / driving license, take a note of their address and the police have that information.


I assume from your post you work either in a firearms dealer or a sports shop. Is it automatic that the details of gun buyers are passed to the police?


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## Cubist (11 Mar 2011)

Ticktockmy said:


> When I was a kid, air rifles were really powerful, Ie the BSA Air sporter, if a slug from one of those had hit you in the helmet it wuold have killed you.
> But seriously, you where lucky it was your helmet, just a few inches diffrence and the story could be diffrent.
> 
> For sure the police will follow it up, as it assualt, and you where lucky then, but next time it could end up with someones death.


Even with a square section spring, my Airsporter never pushed out over 9.7ft/lb. Modern air rifles (Cubester's BSA lightning for example) manage just under the legal 12ft/lb limit.

The reason 12 ft/lb was chosen as a legal limit is supposedly because that is the power required to penetrate an adult skull, so limiting the muzzle energy of a 15 grain pellet (average .22 hunting pellet weight as an example) was an effort to keep them as low powered as possible, whilst still remaining effective for hunters. 

The pellet in the pic doesn't indicate close range or high velocity. All it's done is penetrate the polycarbonate shell and penetrate the polystyrene underneath. That could be achieved at very long range, or by a lowish powered rifle, or even an air pistol. 


A modern hunting air rifle would have gone all the way through the helmet, both outer shell and lining, if fired from close range. 

That said, I would hate to be on the receiving end of the shot. 

My guess is that this was either an air pistol fired from a car (they are limited to 6 ft/lb) or a chance in a million shot from some dickhead firing randomly at traffic from a hundred yards or so away.

Either way, I sincerely hope the police do take it seriously, and the tossers brought to book.


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## Cubist (11 Mar 2011)

In the interest of cycling ballistics I've just shot an old helmet of mine with Cubester's 11.9ft/lb BSA lightning. 

The anoraks will want to know that I used a domed hunting pellet (RWS Superdome, 14.5 grain), from a range of 20 metres. 

I used a four year old Bell Venture, as it APPEARS to be of similar construction to the OP's Dunlop. 

The pellet penetrated the outer polycarb shell, then the polystyrene lining (c.2.5cm thick ), then exited the other side of the helmet, through the lining material just at the rear of the temple vent, nicking the outer shell on the way out. The pellet then went on to strike the wall behind the helmet with sufficient force to deform the pellet. 

If the OP had been shot with a modern air rifle from close-ish range, I don't think they would be here posting. 

I think they have had a bloody lucky escape, but repeat my hypothesis as in my previous post.... this was an air pistol or a very long range fluke.


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## Cubist (11 Mar 2011)

Entry






Exit





Trajectory





Recovered pellet


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## MrHappyCyclist (11 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> In the interest of cycling ballistics I've just shot an old helmet of mine with Cubester's 11.9ft/lb BSA lightning.
> 
> The pellet penetrated the outer polycarb shell, then the polystyrene lining (c.2.5cm thick ), then exited the other side of the helmet, through the lining material just at the rear of the temple vent, nicking the outer shell on the way out. The pellet then went on to strike the wall behind the helmet with sufficient force to deform the pellet.



Bloody 'ell!

Interesting experiment. This pellet has gone about 2cm into the polystyrene; the picture is a bit misleading as I took it from an angle so that you can see the back of the pellet. I'd better start wearing a motorcycle helmet!


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## Tynan (11 Mar 2011)

so that air rifle can't penetrate an adult skull?

skulls must a lot tougher than I thought then


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## Cubist (11 Mar 2011)

Tynan said:


> so that air rifle can't penetrate an adult skull?
> 
> skulls must a lot tougher than I thought then



I used the term "supposedly" in the definition. There would be a lot of factors in play, such as "average" thickness, pellet shape, angle of strike (remember the Chobham effect) but to an extent I would hope that for the *majority *of skulls it wouldn't be powerful enough to penetrate.

Having said that I wouldn't volunteer to test it for real. 

My 12 ft/lb .177 hunting rifle could enter a rabbit's skull, and exit the other side at ranges up to 40metres, but rabbit skulls are nowhere near as thick as a human's. ..........


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## Smokin Joe (11 Mar 2011)

I have an SMK SYNAX which is a fair bit below the 12ft/lb limit, but it will penetrate both sides of a soup can full of water from 10 yards and cleanly dispatch a rat at that distance. I wouldn't fancy taking one in the head at that range. 

The Op was lucky the pellet didn't hit him in the face or the eye.


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## som3blok3 (11 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> My 12 ft/lb .177 hunting rifle could enter a rabbit's skull, and exit the other side at ranges up to 40metres.



I'm guessing your avatar is an ex bird then??


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## Cubist (12 Mar 2011)

som3blok3 said:


> I'm guessing your avatar is an ex bird then??


No, I never even got round to asking her out.


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## david1701 (12 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> I used the term "supposedly" in the definition. There would be a lot of factors in play, such as "average" thickness, pellet shape, angle of strike (remember the Chobham effect) but to an extent I would hope that for the *majority *of skulls it wouldn't be powerful enough to penetrate.
> 
> Having said that I wouldn't volunteer to test it for real.
> 
> My 12 ft/lb .177 hunting rifle could enter a rabbit's skull, and exit the other side at ranges up to 40metres, but rabbit skulls are nowhere near as thick as a human's. ..........



what is the Chobham effect a quick google only mentioned chobham armour is it the effect of having a composite sandwich?


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## Cubist (12 Mar 2011)

david1701 said:


> what is the Chobham effect a quick google only mentioned chobham armour is it the effect of having a composite sandwich?


Chobham effect is where the effective thickness of a plate increases by setting it at an angle to the projectile. Chobham armour was used on tanks, where no plate was set vertically. The article on Chobham armour you found on google probably demonstrated that a plate set at 45 degrees to the projectile was half as thick again as a perpendicular one, thus allowing for lighter armour to be used for the same effect, or increased the effectiveness for the same weight of armour. 

So, if the pellet struck a 3 mm thick piece of skull at 45 degrees, the effective thickness of the skull would be greater than a perpendicular strike.


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## dellzeqq (12 Mar 2011)

blimey! I'm relieved that you're ok, GC, and hope that the police will find the perpetrator.

I had to respond to a proposal from an insurer on Thursday. They were insisting on 'protective clothing' and helmets. I covered the proposal in red ink......


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## dellzeqq (12 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


>


we assume that Cubester was not wearing the helmet during this test.


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Mar 2011)

Update: Disappointing, I'm afraid. I received a letter from the Police this morning, which stated: _"At this stage there are no further lines of enquiry. However, we will review your report in the event of any further information received. In the mean time, we are closing this crime report in accordance with crime recording guidelines. If any circumstances change, we will inform you and reopen the investigation."_

They also provided me with a form to list any further items stolen, plus some information on victim support and a hope that I would find the information in the enclosed leaflet useful. (There was no leaflet enclosed.)

To be honest, I didn't expect a lot, given the limited information I was able to give them.

(I have to say that, given that it was clearly a standard letter, the English was of a pretty poor standard.)


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## david1701 (12 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> Chobham effect is where the effective thickness of a plate increases by setting it at an angle to the projectile. Chobham armour was used on tanks, where no plate was set vertically. The article on Chobham armour you found on google probably demonstrated that a plate set at 45 degrees to the projectile was half as thick again as a perpendicular one, thus allowing for lighter armour to be used for the same effect, or increased the effectiveness for the same weight of armour.
> 
> So, if the pellet struck a 3 mm thick piece of skull at 45 degrees, the effective thickness of the skull would be greater than a perpendicular strike.



I'm with you, the article was more on the new sorts of materiel, but that makes perfect sense its all about impact v relative to the plane


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## Cubist (12 Mar 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> we assume that Cubester was not wearing the helmet during this test.


He's a second row forward. It may not have made much difference!


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## MrHappyCyclist (12 Mar 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> we assume that Cubester was not wearing the helmet during this test.


If (s)he was, then that forensic barbeque skewer will be very handy for keeping the helmet on if the buckle were to break.


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## SlowerThanASluggishSloth (12 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> Update: Disappointing, I'm afraid. I received a letter from the Police this morning, which stated: _"At this stage there are no further lines of enquiry. However, we will review your report in the event of any further information received. In the mean time, we are closing this crime report in accordance with crime recording guidelines. If any circumstances change, we will inform you and reopen the investigation."_
> 
> They also provided me with a form to list any further items stolen, plus some information on victim support and a hope that I would find the information in the enclosed leaflet useful. (There was no leaflet enclosed.)
> 
> ...



Disappointing doesn't begin to describe it!  Have you been told exactly what 'enquiries', if any, were actually made? 

Or, how about an e-mail to the news desk at the Bolton News outlining your experience with 'Attempted-Murder Case Dropped by Police' as the subject?


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## Norm (12 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> He's a second row forward. It may not have made much difference!


 No helmet required then. as there is nothing vital up there to protect. 

Small Norm plays 2nd row too.


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## skudupnorth (12 Mar 2011)

SlowerThanASluggishSloth said:


> Disappointing doesn't begin to describe it!  Have you been told exactly what 'enquiries', if any, were actually made?
> 
> Or, how about an e-mail to the news desk at the Bolton News outlining your experience with 'Attempted-Murder Case Dropped by Police' as the subject?



I was thinking the same,i'm sure the papers would love an article like that !


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## Cubist (13 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> If (s)he was, then that forensic barbeque skewer will be very handy for keeping the helmet on if the buckle were to break.


A sort of latter day hatpin,Punk stylee!


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## Cubist (13 Mar 2011)

I understand the frustration, but think of it from the investigating officer's point of view. Grumpycyclist looked round after realising he'd been shot, and didn't see anyone. The proliferation of air weapons, now better regulated at point of sale but still ten-a-penny out there in dickhead land, means that it would be near impossible to narrow it down to a location where he could have been shot from. Again, the chances are it could have been an air pistol from a moving car so the chances of this being detected are very, very slim. I am very glad he wasn't hurt, I really think he has had a very lucky escape, and it could have been much, much worse. We can't dwell on what might have happened, but we can be very glad he's still posting on here with what appears to be a sense of humour.


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> I understand the frustration, but think of it from the investigating officer's point of view. Grumpycyclist looked round after realising he'd been shot, and didn't see anyone. The proliferation of air weapons, now better regulated at point of sale but still ten-a-penny out there in dickhead land, means that it would be near impossible to narrow it down to a location where he could have been shot from. Again, the chances are it could have been an air pistol from a moving car so the chances of this being detected are very, very slim.


Yes, I think you are right. It would have been nice to be told what lines of investigation they have followed but, if their hopes of finding a CCTV came to naught, there is probably little else they can do.



Cubist said:


> I am very glad he wasn't hurt, I really think he has had a very lucky escape, and it could have been much, much worse. We can't dwell on what might have happened, but we can be very glad he's still posting on here with what appears to be a sense of humour.


Thank you for the good wishes. Sorry it only *appears* to be a sense of humour.


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## Cubist (13 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> Thank you for the good wishes. Sorry it only *appears* to be a sense of humour.



You might have been putting a brave face on it while we all made shite jokes at your expense!?!


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## MrHappyCyclist (13 Mar 2011)

Cubist said:


> You might have been putting a brave face on it while we all made shite jokes at your expense!?!


No worries. Everyone seems far more concerned than I have been, to be honest. 

Although I could wonder why people think I've been very lucky; I don't think it's very lucky to be shot! (I know, I know; could've been much worse. )


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## atomboy (14 Mar 2011)

MrGrumpyCyclist said:


> There's a hole in the shell of the helmet with an air-gun pellet


Eeeeek, holy sh*t. I'm gald you are ok.

There were 2 afwul events in my country.

1. A cyclist (or motorist) rode on a cycle path outside, and there was a wire between 2 trees, it hurt the guy's neck. He immediately died.

2. A friend told me a story, she almost took part a hike last winter. One of them suddenly laid down, and his leg was bleeding. His mates discovered an trap on the centre of hike route. The guy was lucky, now he is OK, but he lost a lot of blood. 

These events are similar to your. How many mental patient are out of the crazyhosue. :/


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## david k (29 Jul 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> I was on my way home when I heard a loud crack from the side of my helmet. There's a hole in the shell of the helmet with an air-gun pellet embedded in the expanded polystyrene underneath! I've told the police, though I don't think there is much they can do; I couldn't see anyone nearby when I stopped to look.



thats scary, were did it happen


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## MrHappyCyclist (29 Jul 2011)

david k said:


> thats scary, were did it happen



Oops, sorry, didn't mean to reopen an ancient topic. See the referring topic for my reply.


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## rowan 46 (29 Jul 2011)

MrHappyCyclist said:


> It certainly is. I wonder whether it's better to take primary or secondary position when being shot at?



I think one of these 2 positions is best


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