# Gold as an investment.



## gavroche (17 Apr 2020)

I am not a wealthy person but my savings are not returning anything nowadays. I don't trust stock and shares and will not go that way and was thinking of buying gold but have no idea of how to do it so here are my questions for any of you experts in the matter:
- Where do I buy gold from?
- In what shape does it come?
- How do I resell it when the time comes?
- Is there commission to be paid when buying and selling?
I am looking forward to seeing your answers. Many thanks.


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## screenman (17 Apr 2020)

I thought it was at quite a high price at the moment, I could well be wrong.


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## Phaeton (17 Apr 2020)

I had a source of 1oz gold ingots in about 1986 they were just over £100 each, looking at what a 1986 £100 is worth now it says £249 https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/1986-to-present-value but the price of 1oz gold today is £1,367, so on that basis they would appear to be a good investment. 

I wouldn't know as although I had a source I could never afford to buy any for myself & I suspect I would have sold them before now had I anyway.


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## PeteXXX (17 Apr 2020)

If you do buy gold, it won't necessarily be an ingot to keep under the stairs. You can pay to have it stored.


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## Phaeton (17 Apr 2020)

PeteXXX said:


> If you do buy gold, it won't necessarily be an ingot to keep under the stairs. You can pay to have it stored.


But at nearly £2K an ounce you don't need that much space for even £100k's worth


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## Gunk (17 Apr 2020)

I bought my son a 100g block of silver at Christmas and price has shot up recently.

not as much as Turbo trainers though, I wish I’d bought a few of them pre Coronavirus!


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## gavroche (17 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But at nearly £2K an ounce you don't need that much space for even £100k's worth


£100k ?????? I wish.


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## steveindenmark (17 Apr 2020)

Gunk said:


> I bought my son a 100g block of silver at Christmas and price has shot up recently.
> 
> not as much as Turbo trainers though, I wish I’d bought a few of them pre Coronavirus!


Or Guiness or Interflora


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## Cycleops (17 Apr 2020)

Gold always appreciates when currencies are shaky and there is uncertainty like now.
Gold as an investment has always lured people so there are always those who supposedly trade in gold who say they can make money for you.
Living in a country that produces the stuff it's always tempting to believe people who say they can obtain 'cheap' gold for you, in fact there are quite a few fraudsters who offer fantastic deals.
Besides that there are some who boast high returns if you invest with them, one such fell to earth recently:
https://www.cedidollar.com/menzgold-scandal-ceo-faces-61-charges/
Maybe we should ask James Stunt how his bullion dealing came to bankrupt him.


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## Yellow Saddle (17 Apr 2020)

Gold isn't an investment, just a hedge against inflation. It just keeps track of inflation.

An analogy I once heard goes like this: "If X grams of gold, in the Roman times could buy you a pair of shoes, X-grams of gold can still only buy you a pair of shoes today."

That sounds pessimistic, but insert any monetary value in there and run the same exercise.

Buy gold in coins. The French have one (dunno what it's called) , South Africa has the Kruger Rand etc.

Don't "invest" in those "investment" coins which are graded at the time of sale, on their pristine minting characteristics or commemorative value etc. A good example is Nelson Mandela Kruger Rands. These were sold at a higher price than plain gold coins for the same weight. Today, they're just worth whatever the price of gold is.

Stay away from jewelry too. Most of the value in that is locked up in the retail cost, which disappears the minute you leave the jeweler's shop.


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## Beebo (17 Apr 2020)

Gold is a safe place to keep money during turbulent times when stocks look volatile. Which is why the value is currently so high. 
you will have to incur a fee to buy and sell like any commodity.


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## fossyant (17 Apr 2020)

Turbo trainers are the new gold.


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## Archie_tect (17 Apr 2020)

If you have spare money that you don't need, send it to me...


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## figbat (17 Apr 2020)

How about oil? That’s at a pretty deep low right now.


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## Milkfloat (17 Apr 2020)

I purchased a few thousand pounds of gold back in 2010 (mainly Sovereign coins) and again at 2016 when the spot price hit £750, I also purchased quite a few silver dollars by the tube when I spent a lot of time in the US. I bought common coins every time as they are easier to sell and a very cost effective way to buy. I bought them as the ultimate insurance to supplement my stocks and share. At the moment I could sell a quite a profit but would rather sit on them as to cash them in and throw money into the depressed stock market is not a risk I am willing to take. A paid a little bit of a premium for a few coins, sovereigns and krugerrands in mint conditions for family birth years, but the majority were bought in bulk by the weight. I am not giving financial advice, but for me I will not sell right now but neither would I buy.


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## Chromatic (17 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> I am not a wealthy person but my savings are not returning anything nowadays. I don't trust stock and shares and will not go that way and was thinking of buying gold but have no idea of how to do it so here are my questions for any of you experts in the matter:
> - Where do I buy gold from?
> - In what shape does it come?
> - How do I resell it when the time comes?
> ...



https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-bars/


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## srw (17 Apr 2020)

Gold isn't an investment, it's a gamble. The best long-term investment is still, as it always has been, a diversified portfolio of shares and bonds, using whatever ISA and pension wrappers you can to make as best use of your tax breaks, combined with some property if you've got the capital and the tolerance of illiquidity. That's dull, but true. Just find the cheapest tracker you can. 

Equities and bonds have both tanked recently. Whether they are undervalued, overvalued or appropriately valued now is irrelevant compared with the likelihood of gains if you sit and hold for the next 10 years.


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## Drago (17 Apr 2020)

I follow the commidoties market and find the price of gold a little un-predictable. Silver follows the same general trend but is less prong to giving you a wedgie when you least expect it. Considering how other values have fallen they've both remained fairly buoyant, so it's not liable to be as advantageous as oil, which is where my pennies have gone.

If you want to buy physical gold you need to either buy a vast amount or wait a very, very long time (possibly far longer than your lifespan) to make any profit worthy of the name.


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## gavroche (17 Apr 2020)

figbat said:


> How about oil? That’s at a pretty deep low right now.


Already done that, filled up the car with diesel.


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## vickster (17 Apr 2020)

Just get a fixed term cash isa, 2% should be achievable fixed over 5 years and tax free. If completely risk averse


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## srw (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Just get a fixed term cash isa, 2% should be achievable fixed over 5 years and tax free. If completely risk averse


https://moneyfacts.co.uk/isa/

1.61%. And you're exposed to the (substantial) risk that inflation is higher than that. At the moment the market has inflation expectations around 2.5%. 

Cash is great as a defensive investment if you might well need to spend it or if you've got a relatively predictable need for a particular amount at a particular point in time. Personally I wouldn't waste an ISA allowance on a bank account.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> https://moneyfacts.co.uk/isa/
> 
> 1.61%. And you're exposed to the (substantial) risk that inflation is higher than that. At the moment the market has inflation expectations around 2.5%.
> 
> Cash is great as a defensive investment if you might well need to spend it or if you've got a relatively predictable need for a particular amount at a particular point in time. Personally I wouldn't waste an ISA allowance on a bank account.


I got 1.55 on a 3 year, which is fine. It’s money I won‘t need to access and I had to move swiftly before the end of the tax year and I’m v risk averse especially having seen shares isa and pension go to shoot in March! The same product is 1.15 now 
I also maxed out premium bonds.
I‘ve started a couple of low-medium risk shares ISAs for this year

The OP doesn’t want stocks but it might be useful to know approx how much he has to invest and at what level of risk. He’s a retiree which I guess might influence whether he would be willing to lose money


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

I’ve literally just got a letter saying that my 1.65% fixed Isa matures this month and will drop to 0.15. So that’s more to figure out how to invest


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## Phaeton (18 Apr 2020)

gavroche said:


> £100k ?????? I wish.


Not the only one


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## neil_merseyside (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> I’ve literally just got a letter saying that my 1.65% fixed Isa matures this month and will drop to 0.15. So that’s more to figure out how to invest


You can usually change products in that company to their better rate without issues, they hope inertia means you won't obviously. 
Or you can just transfer to another company by electronic transfer (so money laundering traceability) to a provider who already has(had) identity/address/inside leg info previously.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

neil_merseyside said:


> You can usually change products in that company to their better rate without issues, they hope inertia means you won't obviously.
> Or you can just transfer to another company by electronic transfer (so money laundering traceability) to a provider who already has(had) identity/address/inside leg info previously.


Indeed, I’ve done that with other ISAs, but it’s finding a decent deal 👍

Maybe I should buy some gold


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## Phaeton (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Maybe I should buy some gold


Or better still buy me some gold


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## SpokeyDokey (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Indeed, I’ve done that with other ISAs, but it’s finding a decent deal 👍
> 
> Maybe I should buy some gold



Vanquis 3 year Fixed Rate Bond at 1.8% - FSCS protected. 

We have a fair chunk of money in an FRB with them which we got at 2.66% over 5 years in July 18. We moaned about that rate too. 

https://www.vanquissavings.co.uk/3-...ium=table&utm_campaign=desktop&utm_term=3year


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Or better still buy me some gold


Buy your own


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## Phaeton (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> Buy your own


That's not as much fun


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## Dave Davenport (18 Apr 2020)

I made a smidge under 2% (all 25 quid prizes) on my premium bonds over the last 12 months, instant access and always the chance of winning a large prize.


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## srw (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> The OP doesn’t want stocks but it might be useful to know approx how much he has to invest and at what level of risk. He’s a retiree which I guess might influence whether he would be willing to lose money


True. Although the fact that he's interested in gold suggests that he's looking for an extremely high level of risk! Perhaps bitcoin or etherium might suit? Or a trip to Las Vegas? (Those, emphatically, are _not_ sensible suggestions).

I find it very odd that people think that investing in the real economy is highly risky - especially just after prices have fallen - but gambling on the future value of a precious metal isn't.

As it happens I'm looking for a home for some money, and looking at various bond and equity investment funds. Almost all of them are sitting about where they were three or four years ago. My best guess is that the next two or three years are going to be torrid, but on average I'll come out ahead - especially if I drip-feed the money in rather than try and guess when the bottom of the market happens. I'm more interested in the next five or ten years.


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> True. Although the fact that he's interested in gold suggests that he's looking for an extremely high level of risk! Perhaps bitcoin or etherium might suit? Or a trip to Las Vegas? (Those, emphatically, are _not_ sensible suggestions).
> 
> I find it very odd that people think that investing in the real economy is highly risky - especially just after prices have fallen - but gambling on the future value of a precious metal isn't.
> 
> As it happens I'm looking for a home for some money, and looking at various bond and equity investment funds. Almost all of them are sitting about where they were three or four years ago. My best guess is that the next two or three years are going to be torrid, but on average I'll come out ahead - especially if I drip-feed the money in rather than try and guess when the bottom of the market happens. I'm more interested in the next five or ten years.


I’ve opened a shares isa with Vanguard based on the feedback on this forum, they have several options for funds depending on risk. Will probably shovel some of that fixed term cash isa across to that


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## ianrauk (18 Apr 2020)

Dave Davenport said:


> I made a smidge under 2% (all 25 quid prizes) on my premium bonds over the last 12 months, instant access and always the chance of winning a large prize.


That's about the same for me


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## vickster (18 Apr 2020)

Phaeton said:


> That's not as much fun


For who? Wouldn't be any fun for me. Anyhow shouldn’t you be buying gold (or platinum) (and precious stones) for your wife


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## Phaeton (18 Apr 2020)

vickster said:


> For who? Wouldn't be any fun for me. Anyhow shouldn’t you be buying gold (or platinum) (and precious stones) for your wife


Why she has me, what more could she want  there is no need to answer the list would be so long


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## Milzy (18 Apr 2020)

Silver will have a better return on investment and is easier to sell than gold if you need some money one day.


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## neil_merseyside (18 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> That's about the same for me


+1 here too


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## Furkz (18 Apr 2020)

Buy stainless steel Rolex


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## IaninSheffield (19 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> My best guess is that the next two or three years are going to be torrid, but on average I'll come out ahead - especially if I drip-feed the money in rather than try and guess when the bottom of the market happens. I'm more interested in the next five or ten years.


Asking for a friend  ...
I see the wisdom in this, but won't 'drip-feeding' into a bonds/equity fund incur fees at each feeding point which eat away at the overall value of the portfolio? Or are the gains to be made likely to beat the costs over time?


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## srw (19 Apr 2020)

IaninSheffield said:


> Asking for a friend  ...
> I see the wisdom in this, but won't 'drip-feeding' into a bonds/equity fund incur fees at each feeding point which eat away at the overall value of the portfolio? Or are the gains to be made likely to beat the costs over time?


It depends on the fee structure.

Most funds have percentage fees, so it won't make a difference. The particular platform I'm looking at charges a fixed fee per month and allows regular saving for a single flat fee.


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## IaninSheffield (19 Apr 2020)

srw said:


> It depends on the fee structure.
> 
> Most funds have percentage fees, so it won't make a difference. The particular platform I'm looking at charges a fixed fee per month and allows regular saving for a single flat fee.


Much appreciated. I'll look out I'll advise my friend to look out for that.


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## Drago (20 Apr 2020)

I dumped my trading funds into oil about 5 weeks ago when it hit rock bottom and it's just starting to edge up now. If it returns to its pore virus levels - and it will, just a matter of exactly when - i'll have made over 40%. As aforementioned elsewhere, I don't work so can whip out my tablet every 2 minutes to check, and can instantly respond to breaking news as it affects the markets.


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## Drago (20 Apr 2020)

US oil is now at a 21 year low as of today - nows the time to buy, buy, buy! Mine is all tied up split between Brent and Saudi else I'd have some of that.


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## srw (20 Apr 2020)

You know I said that gold was a gamble? Anyone invested in US oil has just lost everything they've invested, and more - and is now paying real money for the privilege of what is supposedly an investment. I wonder what happens if they can't keep up the payments?


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## glasgowcyclist (20 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> US oil is now at a 21 year low as of today - nows the time to buy, buy, buy! Mine is all tied up split between Brent and Saudi else I'd have some of that.



I’m no investor, too risk averse, but isn’t US oil going to minus $37 a barrel a Very Bad Thing?


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## Beebo (20 Apr 2020)

Drago said:


> US oil is now at a 21 year low as of today - nows the time to buy, buy, buy! Mine is all tied up split between Brent and Saudi else I'd have some of that.


You’re investing strategy is in direct contradiction to your views on gas guzzler cars.


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## vickster (20 Apr 2020)

Beebo said:


> You’re investing strategy is in direct contradiction to your views on gas guzzler cars.


presumably he’s giving any and all profits to Extinction Rebellion?


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## Eziemnaik (20 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I’m no investor, too risk averse, but isn’t US oil going to minus $37 a barrel a Very Bad Thing?


Dont be silly
Soon gas stations will pay us to fill up the cars


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## Eziemnaik (20 Apr 2020)

What we also need are interest rates at -10
My mortgage is not gonna pay itself


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## Drago (21 Apr 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I’m no investor, too risk averse, but isn’t US oil going to minus $37 a barrel a Very Bad Thing?


It's a bad thing if you've paid $85 a barrel for it, but a good thing if you're a buyer. And that's how the game goes.

In fact, probably not a good time to buy US crude this very moment, the price is so depressed that the cost of long term storage outweighs its value so they're having to give some away, but keep an eye on it, catch it before it trends upwards - and it will - and I can foresee over a year or 18 months a good chance of tripling the investment. I'm hoping to double my Brent and Saudi holdings in that time, even if it means keeping my play-fund tied up in it for a while.


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## nickyboy (25 Apr 2020)

Speculating on gold is speculating on global macro economic conditions and there are a lot of experts out there you're competing against. So good luck

If you actually understand mining exploration and production there potentially is money to be made buying and selling gold mining shares. But you have to really understand mining and exploration


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## Hover Fly (27 Apr 2020)

I’m no expert, but back in the early 2000s bought £15000 worth of sovereigns at about £50-80 each, from my redundancy, to cries of dismay from my knowledgable friends. Second best thing I ever did.


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## silva (14 Jun 2020)

It illustrates: it's not the product choice that rescues the purchasing power you produced and tried to store to buy back later.
It's the price of the product.
It's not gold or whatever, but the price you paid for it.
Consider this:
Someone that buys and sells gold, is competing against those very same that try to take away your purchasing power in order to spend it themselves. Who is that: the governments, their central banks, and their entire parasites - backbone.
Why:
Because they buy and sell gold too. NOT to preserve there own purchasing power, but to get rid of yours.
Look at what central banks and their gold buddies (the london bullion market association systemic bank cartel) did over the past decades: the former SOLD their gold "reserves" at decades recordlow prices to the latter, to then buy it back at decades recordhigh prices from the former. Precisely the opposite of what you, a saver, a speculator tries.
Explanation is simple: when they see speculators buying gold, they buy gold too, in order to drive up the gold price, and make speculators receive less ounces.
And vice versa: when they see speculators selling gold, they sell gold too, in order to drive down the gold price, and make speculators receive less dollars/euros/pounds/whatever for their ounces.
And not just gold, that's just 1 example.

Now since central banks / governments have way more market data available than you (they force reporting) there is only 1 way, an in some aspect rather sad way, that a speculator can succeed: by going against the herd other speculators. When the latter are buying en masse: sell, and when the former are selling en masse: buy.


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## silva (14 Jun 2020)

Hover Fly said:


> I’m no expert, but back in the early 2000s bought £15000 worth of sovereigns at about £50-80 each, from my redundancy, to cries of dismay from my knowledgable friends. Second best thing I ever did.


Some data to prove a "you got that right":
table layout: year, tonnes sold by governments, average gold price

1997 326 $330.98
1998 363 $294.24
1999 477 $278.88
2000 479 $279.11
2001 520 $271.04
2002 547 $309.73
2003 620 $363.38
2004 479 $409.72
2005 663 $444.74
2006 365 $603.46
2007 484 $695.39
2008 235 $871.96 
2009 34 $972.35
2010 -79.2 $1224.53
2011 -480.8 $1571.52
2012 -569.3 $1668.98
2013 -623.8 $1411.23
2014 -583.9 $1211.71
2015 -576.5 $1160.06
2016 -389.8 $1250.74
2017 -374.8 $1257.12
2018 -651.5

So thinking about buying gold when (or even because) central banks buy too? Think again ...


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