# Anyone ride fixed without a lockring?



## tyred (9 Nov 2011)

I've been turning an old gas pipe special into a winter fixed gear and aiming to keep it as cheap as possible. The components of the bike are all perfectly useable and have only needed a re-grease and some new cables. I have an old 46 tooth chainset, I was happy to live with the chrome wheels so I thought the only parts I needed to buy were a tracksprocket, chain and brake cables/blocks. I have now discovered that the thread on hub doesn't have enough threads for both a track sprocket and the BB lockring which I had intended to fit.

Does anyone ride without a lockring or will the sprocket just unscrew. I will be running a relatively low gear but don't do skid stops or any heavy leg braking. I generally only leg brake in controlled situations like losing speed on the approach to a junction. I will have brakes back and front for anything else.


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (9 Nov 2011)

youtube 'rotafix'....you won't need a lockring


----------



## palinurus (9 Nov 2011)

I did for a while, I only stopped because I'm using one of those sprocket carrier jobs at the moment so I need a lockring for that.

It didn't budge during normal leg braking, didn't budge during accidental heavy leg braking either. They get wound on pretty tight.


----------



## YahudaMoon (9 Nov 2011)

A lot of track bikes don't use em. I think the UCI banned the use of lock rings in 2005 ?


----------



## Fab Foodie (9 Nov 2011)

I found it was OK, but then my fixed is braked both f+r so I don't do any heavy leg braking or skid stops.


----------



## rustychisel (10 Nov 2011)

same, not a problem. Try flat-filing your BB lockring first to ensure it's got a perfectly flat face and you might get 2 or 3 threads to engage, but cogs get wound on pretty damn tight and once they're on you can use the wheel to slow down (leg braking) n stuff. Always have a front brake fitted. As mentioned, lots of trackies don't use lockrings, but of course they're not riding on the roads, they're using their legs to [almost] imperceptibly alter speeds, and they change cogs [ratios] often


----------



## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (10 Nov 2011)

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qIVEpyelP0[/media]


----------



## tyred (10 Nov 2011)

Thanks for the advice.

I'll be testing it out at the weekend if my brake pads arrive in time.


----------



## fossyant (10 Nov 2011)

Ridden two years without a lockring.

My LBS who put the bike together said you don't need them. I do leg brake, but not very much as I have two brakes. The sprockets have never come undone.


----------



## Zoiders (10 Nov 2011)

You don't need one apart from maybe at first as you bed the sprocket in.

After a while you will find the lockring is no longer tight and can be unscrewed by hand because the sprocket has wound it's self on very tightly, then you can remove it.

Leaving lockrings on can be dangerous - should you ever unship the chain at speed it can fold up the rear triangle up like you got rear ended by a landrover.


----------



## Smurfy (10 Nov 2011)

I have a lockring. I installed the sprocket with plenty of grease on the threads, and also on the sprocket face that mates with the hub body. Then I took it to a steep hill not far from where I live and stomped on the pedals. At the top of the hill I locked my legs and felt the sprocket loosen. I climbed the hill again, got off at the top, walked it home and put the lockring on.

I checked the lockring after a long hilly ride and it was still tight, so it appears that the grease enabled my sprocket to tighten all the way immediately. Maybe other people didn't use as much grease as I did, but my sprocket wouldn't stay put without a lockring.

If the chainline is properly adjusted, the chain is correctly tensioned, and the sprocket, chain and chainring are in good condition the chain should not unship. I always have my chain adjusted to give about 10-12mm deflection under firm thumb pressure.


----------



## MrGrumpy (21 Nov 2011)

stopped using a lockring after having to chisel the old one off when changing my sprocket. LBS said dont bother with them, waste of time and I do lots of rear leg breaking.


----------



## tyred (22 Nov 2011)

I've done about 100 miles on it so far and no problems to report.


----------



## fossyant (24 Nov 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Leaving lockrings on can be dangerous - should you ever unship the chain at speed it can fold up the rear triangle up like you got rear ended by a landrover.


 
Eh - since when ?

Fold up the rear triangle?  Was it an elephant riding the bike ? - the rear wheel will lock up- might chew your paint work a bit, and dump you on the tarmac.


----------



## YahudaMoon (24 Nov 2011)

YahudaMoon said:


> A lot of track bikes don't use em. I think the UCI banned the use of lock rings in 2005 ?


 
Quoting myself here ! It's OK not having a lock ring on track though on road you have to have a lock ring


----------



## Zoiders (24 Nov 2011)

fossyant said:


> Eh - since when ?
> 
> Fold up the rear triangle?  Was it an elephant riding the bike ? - the rear wheel will lock up- might chew your paint work a bit, and dump you on the tarmac.


Deadly serious Fossy.

You can fold up the rear triangle with a lock ring fitted, it's been done. On fast descents you have got some serious torque running through that drive train and it will make short work of chain and seat stays.


----------



## TheDoctor (24 Nov 2011)

I've *never* heard of that, Zoiders. I'm almost tempted to say 'Photos or it didn't happen'.
I'd certainly like to see a source, as it sounds highly unlikely.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (3 Dec 2011)

i put the lockring back on yesterday (removed it in expectation of putting a ss cog on, that never happened). it was while retensioning the chain after the chain slackened…


----------



## wheres_my_beard (4 Dec 2011)

I rode for the first time without a lock ring today.

It had come pretty loose, and I was changing my sprocket anyways. Having seen how damn tight the sprocket that I was removing was I thought it's replacement was hardly going to come whizzing off without a lockring (I had to give in doing it myself and had to get an annoyingly smug yet efficient chap at my LBS to do it - pah!).

So far so good, and I've been giving the leg braking a good old go, to see if it'll budge, and after about 5 miles of riding the sprocket seems pretty immovable to me. So I may dispense with the lockring entirely.


----------



## screenman (5 Dec 2011)

I thought there was a road traffic act law that said a locking ring is required.


----------



## andrew_s (5 Dec 2011)

TheDoctor said:


> I've *never* heard of that, Zoiders. I'm almost tempted to say 'Photos or it didn't happen'.
> I'd certainly like to see a source, as it sounds highly unlikely.


.
The two cases I'm aware of were the chain coming off the outside of the chainring and getting caught up on the pedal axle. The wheel kept the crank moving long enough to bend the frame, at which point the sideways moving rear wheel collapsed.
Someone posted a link to an old (1950s or 60s) club journal article, and got a reply "that happened to me once". I'd guess it was on ACF, before it morphed into YACF.


----------



## andrew_s (5 Dec 2011)

screenman said:


> I thought there was a road traffic act law that said a locking ring is required.


You need a locking if you are going to claim the fixed wheel as one of your two brakes - i.e. if you don't have a rear brake fitted.


----------



## smutchin (9 Dec 2011)

After being told by several experienced fixie riders that a lockring wasn't necessary, I didn't bother fitting one when I went fixed. Nearly two years and 10,000km (all on road) later, I've yet to experience any sprocket looseness. Exactly the opposite, in fact!

d.


----------



## dan_bo (9 Dec 2011)

I started using a lockring after shagging the threads on two hubs but spinning the cog off leg breaking and then pedalling away again. no problems since.


But i'm not having that zoiders. the chain'll snap before it had your bike.


----------



## Zoiders (9 Dec 2011)

No it won't.

1/8 chain is far stronger than you think and it will do a number on a frame with track ends, it can and has damaged the rear triangle of bikes fitted with lockrings.


----------



## totallyfixed (9 Dec 2011)

On my first proper ride on fixed I unshipped the chain [too slack, hit a bump] at about 18mph, wheel locked up, bike skidded, hit the deck and only damage was a bit of paint lost. Before any serious damage can be done the wheels will always lose traction beyond a certain resistance. As for the lock ring, depends on how you ride, if you use the brakes a lot it may be you don't need one. I leg break as much as possible and on my rural rides rarely have to use the brakes and have a lock ring fitted.


----------



## Zoiders (9 Dec 2011)

Repeat that experiment at 30+ mph on a bike with track ends and get back to us.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (10 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> No it won't.
> 
> 1/8 chain is far stronger than you think and it will do a number on a frame with track ends, it can and has damaged the rear triangle of bikes fitted with lockrings.


don't use that then. i use 3/32" (7 speed, in essence) and it works fine, and i'm sure the powerlink in the chain will go before there's major damage to the frame…


----------



## Zoiders (10 Dec 2011)

alecstilleyedye said:


> don't use that then. i use 3/37" (7 speed, in essence) and it works fine, and i'm sure the powerlink in the chain will go before there's major damage to the frame…


3/32 are more than strong enough as well.

Are you seriously using a powerlink? an actual power link if that's what you are using isn't safe at all, you need a 3 piece link with the circlip.


----------



## mattsccm (13 Dec 2011)

If you want to use a normal freewheel hub with no lock ring facility just think about good mechanical practice and ignore it. A steel sprocket on an alloy hub will soon corrde solid and thus well on. Add some salt and it will stay forever!
To remove a well fitted sprocket if all alse fails turn the wheel round. Now turn the chainset round. Ride it. You are of course pulling the "wrong" way and time will undo it.
Try to predict it ctually moving.


----------



## tyred (14 Dec 2011)

Well, my hub, like the rest of the bike, is steel so no electrolytic corrosion.

However, it definitely hasn't unscrewed, I haven't bent the frame, stripped the threads, or crashed and burst into flames. I think it works just fine.


----------



## Radius (24 Dec 2011)

The reason lockrings aren't used on the track is because there's absolutely no need for them; the riders are always going forward, never leg braking, and are generally running very high gear ratios with lots of *forward* power. On the street, you're gonna be doing the exact opposite. Rotafixing is not a good alternative, using a standard chain whip (even with a hollow metal bar as an extender to get extra torque) will put your sprocket on tighter. There is no evidence that a correctly installed lockring can (somehow?!) lead to your bike exploding.


----------



## AlanW (24 Dec 2011)

Radius said:


> .....the riders are always going forward, *never leg braking,*


 
Really, I take it that you don't ride the track then?


----------



## Radius (24 Dec 2011)

When I say 'leg braking' I mean the kind of high torque leg braking that goes on when riding on the road, making emergency stops etc. That really isn't comparable to what goes on on the track, which I have ridden / raced. What possible justification is there for not having a lockring on a road-based fixed gear bike?


----------



## Smurfy (25 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> 1/8 chain is far stronger than you think


 


Zoiders said:


> 3/32 are more than strong enough as well.


 
Keeping everything else the same (e.g. material properties) a 3/32" chain will always be stronger than a 1/8" chain. The pins in a 1/8" chain are longer, so the bending moment on the pins will always be higher. For this reason (and also because there's so much more choice in the 3/32" world) I'll always use 3/32" on my fixed wheel bike.



Zoiders said:


> you need a 3 piece link with the circlip


 
I use a proper fixed/ss chain and it has one of these 3 piece links. I don't think I'd use anything else as I think the three piece link is the correct part for the job. However, having said that, a few years ago I tried the experiment of riding an SRAM PC850 on my multi-geared commuter until it broke. Rather surprisingly it broke on a regular link rather than at the quick-link, so it appears that the rivetting on the quick-link is much stronger. I think SRAM, or one of the other chain manufacturers actually say on their website that if all links were made and rivetted to the same strength as a quick-link it would be impossible for us to shorten a chain using 'normal' non-industrial tools.

If anyone wants to see pictures of the chain I rode to death I'll post them up!


----------



## Zoiders (25 Dec 2011)

YellowTim said:


> Keeping everything else the same (e.g. material properties) a 3/32" chain will always be stronger than a 1/8" chain. The pins in a 1/8" chain are longer, so the bending moment on the pins will always be higher. For this reason (and also because there's so much more choice in the 3/32" world) I'll always use 3/32" on my fixed wheel bike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The pins have got a roller around them so strength is about the same, the 3/32 pin doesn't get stonger because it's shorter, engagement of the pins into the side plates is about the same, possibly a bit greater with a 1/8 chain.


----------



## AlanW (26 Dec 2011)

Radius said:


> What possible justification is there for not having a lockring on a road-based fixed gear bike?


 
I totally agree, in fact I cannot understand the justification for not having one on the track either? I know people do, but I don't understand the reasoning or logic? And don't tell me its all about the speed to replace sprockets and the extra time it takes to remove the lock ring?


----------



## Norry1 (26 Dec 2011)

What's a lockring ???


----------



## fossyant (26 Dec 2011)

Never mind - there is some real crap spouted about bending frames etc.

If you ever start 'leg braking' on the track (or on the flat) and the coach spot's you - you are in trouble.

I've yet to unlock my sprockets in 2.5 years of fixed commuting...no lock ring.

Racing is different, and is 'fixie skids' - I am not 'skidding' on proper tyres.


----------



## mickle (31 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> 3/32 are more than strong enough as well.
> 
> Are you seriously using a powerlink? an actual power link if that's what you are using isn't safe at all...


 
Why's that then?


----------



## fossyant (31 Dec 2011)

I use a 1/8th quick link with my Fixed - yes very similar to the normal 3/32's - came with the chain !


----------



## alecstilleyedye (3 Jan 2012)

well my powerlink did indeed fail me today; the result of my having inexpertly installed it. the result? not much; the chain wound itself around the sprocket and lock ring in a fairly orderly fashion with only the slightest of jamming against the hub.

no damage at all to the frame, or myself (admittedly the speed was not high), and what struck me was that the lbs (whom i trust) was happy to install a new powerlink (properly, see here), and i doubt he'd have put that on if it wasn't safe to do so…


----------



## tyred (31 Jan 2012)

The sprocket decided to unscrew last night. Light leg breaking in a controlled manner approaching a junction, it just dropped harmlessly on to the axle. This was after about 400 miles. No real issue as I have brakes front and back and I just stopped, took off the wheel, spun the sprocket back on again and continued on my way but I think I will take it off again to add some Locktite on the threads to prevent a repeat.


----------



## colly (31 Jan 2012)

YahudaMoon said:


> A lot of track bikes don't use em.* I think the UCI banned the use of lock rings in 2005* ?


 
Why would they do that?

I am in the middle of making up a fixed wheel ride and am looking some bolted on sprockets.

http://www.velosolo.co.uk/shopdisc.html

Is there something dangerous about them?


----------

