# train restrictions on folding bike wheel size



## Becs (29 May 2012)

I've finally convinced a friend to start commuting by bike but she still needs to do the first 10 miles by train (West Drayton to Ealing Broadway) so I've recommended a folding bike. She really like mine (Dawes Kingpin) but it has 19in wheels and according to First Great Western their folding bike policy only applies to wheels of 18in or less - has anyone had any problems with this or seen this being a problem?

It sounds a bit daft to me to quibble over 1 inch but I'd hate her to waste her money (she can't afford a brompton or similar).


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## ianrauk (29 May 2012)

I don't think it's the train companies that are the worry, (although there are petty jobsworth station staff that likes to make things difficult). It's the train passengers that I think will take umbrage and give her a hard time if trying to board a packed train with a larger bike. It's not nice to be knocked on the shins by a bike. At least with a Brompton they are small enough to put between or behind ones legs to protect others.

But whether anyone is going to measure to see if it the wheels are an inch too big... I wouldn't have thought so.

edit: And when Madam, did one purchase yet another bike?


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## Roger Saunders (29 May 2012)

Another Brompton advantage is that the fold encloses the chain.


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## ufkacbln (29 May 2012)

South West Trains now want to ban anything that does not fit into a luggage rack!


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## Roger Saunders (29 May 2012)

Very silly. A brompton will go on a class 333 luggage rack but I would be scared of it falling off and hurting someone.


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## Red Light (29 May 2012)

Even Bromptons are not exempt from the jobsworths of Worst Great Western.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/jan/19/cycling-ethical-living


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## The Brewer (29 May 2012)

Only way to find out what your local rail provider finds acceptable is to contact them and ask.


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## Red Light (29 May 2012)

The Brewer said:


> Only way to find out what your local rail provider finds acceptable is to contact them and ask.


 
No need, they say in the Cycling by Train leaflet.

_Please note that we define folding bikes as those which have a maximum wheel size of 18 inches in diameter. Bikes with larger wheels_
_will be treated as conventional, non-folding, bikes and must be stored in the designated area._​


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## rusky (29 May 2012)

Cunobelin said:


> South West Trains now want to ban anything that does not fit into a luggage rack!


Challenge accepted!


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## rusky (29 May 2012)

Red Light said:


> No need, they say in the Cycling by Train leaflet.
> 
> _Please note that we define folding bikes as those which have a maximum wheel size of 18 inches in diameter. Bikes with larger wheels_​_will be treated as conventional, non-folding, bikes and must be stored in the designated area._​


Funny, most define folding bikes by - the fact they fold!


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## CopperBrompton (29 May 2012)

I actually think that's a pretty sensible definition for a packed commuter train. On my previous commute, my Brompton went between the seats out of the way but there was a guy with a Dahon on the same train most days and it didn't fit between the seats or in the racks, and the fold was rubbish so it did get in the way and cause quite a few grazed shins.


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## ufkacbln (29 May 2012)

The thing that gets me is that we now have smaller trains, seats that are narrower than the average British behind, and no space for any luggage or bikes

The conflict is one that is engineered by the ATOCS


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## CopperBrompton (29 May 2012)

Fundamentally, though, it's about population and/or the quaint notion that people have to travel to a central location to work.

Peaktime trains are as long as they can be given platform lengths, and train geeks tell me there are all sorts of signalling/points complications with making them even longer by building longer platforms. When trains are standing room only, you can understand restrictions on what can be carried at peak times.

Granted it may be unfair to ban bicycles while permitting large suitcases, but the reality is few people want to carry large cases in peaktime so the occasional one or two isn't a significant issue.


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## ufkacbln (30 May 2012)

What is really needed is to bring the railways into the modern age an start fulfilling customer needs.

No other form of Transport is allowed to overcrowd that way that Rail is, or restrict space in te same manner.

The trains are now almost entirely dedicated to shorter distance commuting and traveling any distance for leisure, carrying luggage or bicycle has become increasingly difficult.


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## CopperBrompton (30 May 2012)

How would you deal with peaktime crowding? Can't make trains longer, can't run more trains, so what would you do?


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## srw (30 May 2012)

Trikeman said:


> How would you deal with peaktime crowding? Can't make trains longer, can't run more trains, so what would you do?


 Can do both, but it costs money. So spend the money*. A great Keynesian stimulus package, and cheaper than many alternatives.

*As TfL have been doing on the tube for the last few years - the Metropolitan line now has new, more reliable trains which are better off-peak for bikes, new signalling, more frequent services.


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## CopperBrompton (30 May 2012)

Train geeks tell me you can't. At London terminus stations, the schedule simply has no slack - there are already trains parked outside waiting for a train to leave so they can get a platform. And you can't extend the platforms any further because the points start immediately past the end of them.


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 May 2012)

Becs your friend would be better off cycling to the next station up which is called Hayes as from here you can not only catch Great Western trains, but you can catch the Heathrow Express to Ealing Broadway. You have a higher sucess rate with the express than gw. You will find that from West Drayton carrige capacity is maxed out, but thins slightly at Hayes as people get off here to catch buses and trains to Heathrow.
It's a pretty maxed out route and having experience of this line makes me believe your friend will have big issues and challenges with such a large wheeled bike, even a brompton is on this route.
I would personally only take a bike on this route if catching trains after 9:30am its simply to manic imho.
A far better option for your friend imho would be to buy a cyclecross style bike and ride the length of the Grand union canal towpath which goes from West Drayton to Ealing, it's a pleasurable ride and saves time when compared to waiting for a train which stops for five minutes at each station. Also saves money from train fair.


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## rusky (30 May 2012)

You had me sold until the "luckily I do so no longer." bit


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## Mr Haematocrit (30 May 2012)

thought i best take that bit out incase I offended any locals..they have a bad enough time living there


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## Becs (31 May 2012)

V for Vengedetta said:


> Becs your friend would be better off cycling to the next station up which is called Hayes as from here you can not only catch Great Western trains, but you can catch the Heathrow Express to Ealing Broadway. You have a higher sucess rate with the express than gw. You will find that from West Drayton carrige capacity is maxed out, but thins slightly at Hayes as people get off here to catch buses and trains to Heathrow.
> It's a pretty maxed out route and having experience of this line makes me believe your friend will have big issues and challenges with such a large wheeled bike, even a brompton is on this route.
> I would personally only take a bike on this route if catching trains after 9:30am its simply to manic imho.
> A far better option for your friend imho would be to buy a cyclecross style bike and ride the length of the Grand union canal towpath which goes from West Drayton to Ealing, it's a pleasurable ride and saves time when compared to waiting for a train which stops for five minutes at each station. Also saves money from train fair.


 
I think the canal is a great idea, but unfortunately she doesn't - she's scared of her path being blocked by a weirdo and getting attacked or something. Her whole commute is from West Drayton to Camden so almost 20 miles in total which is a bit far for her to do twice a day (although could be done entirely on the canal). We had a practice run yesterday and we got the bikes on fine, however I cannot believe the awful conditions people are expected to travel in - if you tried to travel pigs in that kind of stocking density you would be arrested! It was absolutely disgusting, especially given how much people are paying. I'll suggest she tries the Hayes route before committing to buying.

Ian: I got a folder when I moved to Crews Hill - if I don't feel up to 15 miles each way, I get off at Bowes Park and do 7. I overtook a roadie yesterday and have managed 24mph on it so far! Quite a nippy little thing really!


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## ianrauk (31 May 2012)

Becs said:


> Ian: I got a folder when I moved to Crews Hill - if I don't feel up to 15 miles each way, I get off at Bowes Park and do 7. I overtook a roadie yesterday and have managed 24mph on it so far! Quite a nippy little thing really!


 
Excellent stuff... hope you have a basket on the front


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## fimm (31 May 2012)

15 miles each way on a folder?!! Wow, hardcore...


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## Becs (31 May 2012)

fimm said:


> 15 miles each way on a folder?!! Wow, hardcore...


 
If I do the whole 15 each way I take my road bike/tourer if I need panniers. I only use the folder if I use the train, but 7 miles each way on it is very comfy - just needs a few extra gears to stop me spinning out down hill/being overtaken so much! I was sceptical at first having borrowed a brompton but I can't believe how comfy the Dawes is, although I do have the handlebars and seat post pretty much at maximum - at least the upright position stops me flashing too much cleavage when I'm in "civies"


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## Becs (31 May 2012)

ianrauk said:


> Excellent stuff... hope you have a basket on the front


 
I have a rack pack on the back - way cooler!


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## StuAff (31 May 2012)

fimm said:


> 15 miles each way on a folder?!! Wow, hardcore...


Hardly....I did multiple FNRttCs on my old Dahon Jetstream, and the Speed Pro TT I've got now is even better for long distance (haven't done a century on it yet, but I will)...


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## Blue Hills (31 May 2012)

I've done rides of 80 miles or so on my Brompton and been up mountains/very big hills on it - and on unsurfaced tracks.

Get out on that thing and SruAff and let us know how you get on - I do remember a guy doing Dunwich on a Speed Pro one year.

On the topic, I can understand something like the Speed Pro and many other Dahons being restricted/banned on busy peak hour trains - my Speed Pro is debatedly more of an obstruction folded than not - a right old collection of bits.


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## TheDoctor (31 May 2012)

fimm said:


> 15 miles each way on a folder?!! Wow, hardcore...


Wouldn't say so. I've done a weekend tour on mine, and I've seen people doing FNRttC on folders.


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## StuAff (31 May 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> I've done rides of 80 miles or so on my Brompton and been up mountains/very big hills on it - and on unsurfaced tracks.
> 
> Get out on that thing and SruAff and let us know how you get on - I do remember a guy doing Dunwich on a Speed Pro one year.
> 
> On the topic, I can understand something like the Speed Pro and many other Dahons being restricted/banned on busy peak hour trains - my Speed Pro is debatedly more of an obstruction folded than not - a right old collection of bits.


Yup, saw a TT on last year's DD.


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## CopperBrompton (31 May 2012)

Every LtB I've done, there have been multiple Bromptons.


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## fimm (1 Jun 2012)

Well, I have a Brompton, which I think is excellent for putting on the train and for short trips around town, but I still think you lot doing long distances on one or similar bikes (and I saw a link to people doing JoGLE on Bromptons somewhere) are hardcore. I'll stick to my big bike, thank you!


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## Blue Hills (1 Jun 2012)

Maybe this will encourage you fimm. The 5 gear model.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37034456@N06/6333541395/


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## StuartG (1 Jun 2012)

fimm said:


> I still think you lot doing long distances on one or similar bikes (and I saw a link to people doing JoGLE on Bromptons somewhere) are hardcore. I'll stick to my big bike


I disagree. I've done 4 x FNRttC on a 3 gear Brommie. 100 miles is my record on a 30 gear Condor Fratello which equates to my 85 mile record on the Brommie. Any real difference is in the mind, not the legs.

And its a standard Brommie apart from a Brooks saddle, SPD pedals and the smaller chainwheel 'cos I definitely not hardcore. But I am a pensioner


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## fimm (1 Jun 2012)

StuartG said:


> I disagree. .... Any real difference is in the mind, not the legs.


Fair enough  any disagreement from me is entirely respectful, anyway.

Blue Hills, that looks very nice, where is it?


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## Blue Hills (1 Jun 2012)

Hi fimm

Glad you can see the link - I was going to go back and fiddle with it as I couldn't see it myself - kinda puzzling ..

It's Sardinia. I've also taken that Brommie along unsurfaced roads there chased by dogs - Brommie's are like (surprisingly fast) tanks compared to lots of other folders - you've got a great bike.

>>any disagreement from me is entirely respectful, anyway.

Yes, I realise - other boards are available for arguments.


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## rusky (1 Jun 2012)

Blue Hills said:


> Maybe this will encourage you fimm. The 5 gear model.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37034456@N06/6333541395/


Bike porn!

Even Flickr thinks so 


> *This photo falls outside your current SafeSearch filter.
> You can click through to see it if you want.​*


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