# Tri bars added - underwhelming improvements



## grellboy (1 Jan 2018)

Happy New Year everyone. This year I have set a goal of improving my best 10 mile TT time considerably. PB is 26.49. Would like to go sub 25. Sure losing weight will help but knowing the importance of aerodynamics, I tried out some tri bars attached to my normal road bike. Whilst we are not comparing like with like - as I didn't ride that route today - I was pretty disappointed with the lack of immediate improvements, somewhat naively I now realise. Basically I found the tri bars were really uncomfortable, not on my back but on my thighs, which makes me think my saddle/seat post is in the wrong position. Looking at the photos below - which is the same set up sans tri bars i would have used when setting my pb (hands on hoods for that btw) what sort of adjustment would any more experienced riders suggest I need to make to the position to make







the tri bars more comfortable on my thighs?


----------



## Tin Pot (1 Jan 2018)

It’s a compromise.

Some people can get comfy, others can’t. The geometry of the bike is against you. Bear that in mind to avert too much disappointment.

I can’t find my old pics, but I’ve done tri bars on roadie and built a tri bike. On a well fit road set up you want to bring the seat forward and drop the bars as much as you can, try not to lose your seat to B.B. measurement by raising the saddle slightly.

Whatever you do it will close down your hip angle significantly and cause difficulties - but should be minor over a 25min TT.


----------



## grellboy (1 Jan 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> It’s a compromise.
> 
> Some people can get comfy, others can’t. The geometry of the bike is against you. Bear that in mind to avert too much disappointment.
> 
> ...


It was not so much a comfort thing as feeling that I wasn't even getting the most amount of power out of my thighs due to the new position of arms.


----------



## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Jan 2018)

grellboy said:


> It was not so much a comfort thing as feeling that I wasn't even getting the most amount of power out of my thighs due to the new position of arms.


Yes. You've significantly changed your hip angle in order to lean so far over


----------



## Tin Pot (1 Jan 2018)

grellboy said:


> It was not so much a comfort thing as feeling that I wasn't even getting the most amount of power out of my thighs due to the new position of arms.



That’s normal too - you’re using less of your usual bike muscles, and more of your unused muscles. They say it takes a matter of weeks to attain a similar power output, possibly more. This then takes the thread into the whole power vs aero debate which I’m sure you’ve heard about.

Certainly for me it took a few weeks, my FTP tests became the same in aero or in usual road position. Others find they always are a few watts short in aero.


----------



## grellboy (1 Jan 2018)

So should I shove my seat forward and just crack on?


----------



## Ian H (1 Jan 2018)

Your upper arms should be roughly vertical when on the rests. Bear in mind the new rule that specifies the elbow must be no more than 3cm in front of the steerer tube.

As mentioned above, moving the saddle forward can help. But it will take a few rides to get comfortable.


----------



## Tin Pot (1 Jan 2018)

grellboy said:


> So should I shove my seat forward and just crack on?



Give it a go, for sure.


----------



## Tommy2 (1 Jan 2018)

And raise the seat height.


----------



## themosquitoking (2 Jan 2018)

Best two things you can do to turn your position on that bike into a tt position is get an inline seatpost and then move the saddle all the way forward. Experiment with saddle height after that.


----------



## cyberknight (2 Jan 2018)

themosquitoking said:


> Best two things you can do to turn your position on that bike into a tt position is get an inline seatpost and then move the saddle all the way forward. Experiment with saddle height after that.


Maybe buy another post and saddle so you can keep your road bike set up the same ?


----------



## grellboy (2 Jan 2018)

themosquitoking said:


> Best two things you can do to turn your position on that bike into a tt position is get an inline seatpost and then move the saddle all the way


 Thanks for the advice, if the weather ever let's up!


----------



## Ian H (2 Jan 2018)

If you really can't get comfortable you might have to raise the bars. You will still get aerodynamic advantage from having your arms tucked in. Mount the elbow rests as close together as you can cope with.


----------



## grellboy (2 Jan 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I know nothing about this subject other than to add that Redshift make a dual position seat post (or is it just the seat clamp) that enables you to flip flop between a higher, more forward position for the tri bars and a more normal position for the ordinary bars. It may or may not be of interest.


It was of interest.....until I saw this!


----------



## Milzy (2 Jan 2018)

Mine go on mid summer and come off in the fall. They always hurt. Stick with them and you just hurt a little less and go for a bit longer every time. They’re just a total PITA tbh. It’s easier to just have a TT bike.


----------



## grellboy (3 Jan 2018)

Moved saddle forward and done some very unscientific comparisons (on bars v on hoods) and seems to be definitely faster for same perceived effort and more importantly not painful so can now begin to sustain the position! So thank you for the help everyone! ☺


----------



## HLaB (3 Jan 2018)

grellboy said:


> It was of interest.....until I saw this!
> View attachment 389822


If you are dedicated to TT'ing you could purchase one of these a lot cheaper I did a few years back and it seemed to make a massive difference.


----------



## themosquitoking (3 Jan 2018)

HLaB said:


> If you are dedicated to TT'ing you could purchase one of these a lot cheaper I did a few years back and it seemed to make a massive difference.


I like that.


----------



## steveindenmark (7 Jan 2018)

Aero bars take time to get used to, the same as anything new on a bike 

What you will find as you start to get used to them is that it takes less effort to maintain the speed you rode at in the past and you will be more comfortable. 

I am not a TT rider and so cannot comment on the speed difference.


----------



## screenman (7 Jan 2018)

There is a bloke called Lemond who could tell you about the benefits of tri bars.


----------



## Cronorider (3 Apr 2018)

Hope you are making progress in your quest for speed! I have had clip-on aero bars on my road bike since Greg Lemond won the tour, without changing the setup on the bike. It is not surprising that you did not improve your times immediately. It takes lots of training miles to adjust to the position. When I acquired my dedicated TT bike, I was pretty disappointed on my first attempt. I thought I would immediately ride faster than on my road bike, but no, I was slower. It took time to adjust to the more radical position, and specific TT training, to really get going fast on it. 
Have you changed your setup at all? I notice in the pic the saddle is really far back and slants downward. The one thing that I would recommend is perhaps putting on a saddle like a Fizik Arione Tri2, as the front of the saddle is longer and has more cushioning than other saddles.


----------



## gds58 (4 Apr 2018)

By way of qualifying what I am about to suggest I will first tell you that I am currently a qualified bike fitter for both road and TT and formerly a six times National TT champion spanning the period when Tri-Bars first came into use in the UK.
It is impossible to give specific measurements for adjustments without doing a full bike fit which involves a physical assesment to establish such things as flexibility, range of movement in key areas and left to right symmetry.
However, I would advise some simple changes to start with. First find the mid point of your saddle (front to back) and from this measure down to the centre of the Bottom Bracket to establish your current seat height (which may well be incorrect though!!) Then move your saddle forwards as far as it will safely go on the rails (it is currently set very far back). Once done check the saddle height from the mid point to the centre of BB and adjust (up) where necessary. It will definitely need moving up if you have moved it forwards.
Next remove all the spacers from under the handlebar stem and drop the stem down as far as it will go. I would suggest initially put the spacers back above the stem before cutting the steerer tube down, as once this is done there's no going back!
Next, if your Tri-Bars will allow, fit them so that the arm-rests are either behind the handlebar or on top of it, but not in front. If not possible then you can achieve the same by fitting a shorter stem.
Next, raise the front of the Tri-Bars so that they are angled upwards slightly. This will give you a smaller more closed-up frontal profile. Think of the position adopted by Downhill Skiers (which is where the original idea for Tri-Bars came from) Much more aerodynamic.
Next, train, train, train, in this new position. You have to be used to it BEFORE you start racing in this position.
Next, enter a Time Trial, and do a PB - EASY!!
If none of this works, try Golf. Seriously though, if you do get serious about your time trialling then it is money well spent to have a proper TT bike fit which should take in the region of 3 hours to do properly and will give you massive benefits.
Hope this all helps.
Graham


----------



## Heltor Chasca (4 Apr 2018)

gds58 said:


> By way of qualifying what I am about to suggest I will first tell you that I am currently a qualified bike fitter for both road and TT and formerly a six times National TT champion spanning the period when Tri-Bars first came into use in the UK.
> It is impossible to give specific measurements for adjustments without doing a full bike fit which involves a physical assesment to establish such things as flexibility, range of movement in key areas and left to right symmetry.
> However, I would advise some simple changes to start with. First find the mid point of your saddle (front to back) and from this measure down to the centre of the Bottom Bracket to establish your current seat height (which may well be incorrect though!!) Then move your saddle forwards as far as it will safely go on the rails (it is currently set very far back). Once done check the saddle height from the mid point to the centre of BB and adjust (up) where necessary. It will definitely need moving up if you have moved it forwards.
> Next remove all the spacers from under the handlebar stem and drop the stem down as far as it will go. I would suggest initially put the spacers back above the stem before cutting the steerer tube down, as once this is done there's no going back!
> ...



Hah! I spent a while sailing from Brightlingsea near Wivenhoe. Happy memories.

Sorry to jump on this thread @grellboy butbI found @gds58 ’s pod fascinating. May I ask if you have any specific advice for Audax events of around 200+km? My aim is far rather than fast in relative comfort. My snapped radius and ulna and fractured elbow have a tendency of reminding me I’m not a youth anymore, but a 44 year old maintaining my body before I wreck it. Thank you.


----------



## steve292 (5 Apr 2018)

HLaB said:


> If you are dedicated to TT'ing you could purchase one of these a lot cheaper I did a few years back and it seemed to make a massive difference.



I 've got one of those. you will benefit more from raising the bars, to open your hip angle, IME. it won't be quite as aero but you'll be able to go harder for longer.


----------



## gds58 (5 Apr 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Hah! I spent a while sailing from Brightlingsea near Wivenhoe. Happy memories.
> 
> Sorry to jump on this thread @grellboy butbI found @gds58 ’s pod fascinating. May I ask if you have any specific advice for Audax events of around 200+km? My aim is far rather than fast in relative comfort. My snapped radius and ulna and fractured elbow have a tendency of reminding me I’m not a youth anymore, but a 44 year old maintaining my body before I wreck it. Thank you.



It’s a much more difficult one to comment on without doing a physical assessment to establish your limitations etc. However, one of the most common issues we hear about when doing bike fits (and I’ve done in the region of 300) is that the rider suffers with either numb hands and/or aching wrists and forearms and the feeling that there is way too much load on their hands/forearms. Sometimes this is a positional thing but in a lot of cases it is due to the rider having a weak or ineffective Core. This results in them having to support all their upper body weight (which is more than half your full weight) on their hands/wrists. A strong and supportive core will drastically reduce this effect. My advice is to either visit a Physio and get them to give you specific core strength exercises or a better way is to simply attend a regular Pilates class. This will improve things no end. I went to one (until it moved locations) and it really helped. I was the only bloke but that does have its own merits!
I’m not saying that this is the issue with you but it may be and in any case it can only help to improve your comfort on the bike.
Hope this helps.
Graham


----------



## Heltor Chasca (6 Apr 2018)

gds58 said:


> It’s a much more difficult one to comment on without doing a physical assessment to establish your limitations etc. However, one of the most common issues we hear about when doing bike fits (and I’ve done in the region of 300) is that the rider suffers with either numb hands and/or aching wrists and forearms and the feeling that there is way too much load on their hands/forearms. Sometimes this is a positional thing but in a lot of cases it is due to the rider having a weak or ineffective Core. This results in them having to support all their upper body weight (which is more than half your full weight) on their hands/wrists. A strong and supportive core will drastically reduce this effect. My advice is to either visit a Physio and get them to give you specific core strength exercises or a better way is to simply attend a regular Pilates class. This will improve things no end. I went to one (until it moved locations) and it really helped. I was the only bloke but that does have its own merits!
> I’m not saying that this is the issue with you but it may be and in any case it can only help to improve your comfort on the bike.
> Hope this helps.
> Graham



Thank you. As ever, I am grateful for the experience and knowledge of others.


----------



## Randomnerd (6 Apr 2018)

Read with much interest: this can be a great place sometimes cant it?


----------

