# The club and the upward spiral of tech prices



## cyberknight (2 Jul 2022)

The club ride , you know where you get together to have fun ride ?
Turns out these days it seems carbon and electronic shifting are entry level requirements to ride with the group as last week i was the only one with cable shifting and the only one on a bike less than £2000 with the average being more like £3500 !
Heres me on something that was £700 new and no sign of any better in the future trying to keep up with aero machines with carbon disc wheels .


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## classic33 (2 Jul 2022)

Isn't the "engine" the most important part of the bicycle when I'm use. The rest are optional to try and increase the speed/improve the time taken?


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## cyberknight (2 Jul 2022)

Of course the engine helps although if the rest are on aero watt saving machines it makes it harder work just to keep up


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## chris667 (2 Jul 2022)

I am sure there isn't that much of a difference. Effort isn't linear.

True story. Back when I was in my early twenties and riding 300ish miles a week (and thought I was quite good) I used to be friends with a former bike courier. He rode an old Kona MTB and could drop me like a sack of potatoes, especially up hills. Once, with his hands behind his back. While whistling.


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## DCLane (2 Jul 2022)

It depends on the club; at mine you'll have everything from 25+ year-old bikes to the latest Di2 Dura-Ace 12 speed and I quite like the lack of snobbery from most. Any who are get short shrift.


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## Cycleops (2 Jul 2022)

I'm surprised they even let you in. Isn't there a minimum bike spend rule in place? 🙂
Never mind just wait until there's a cross wind and those deep carbon wheels will have them all over the place.


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## a.twiddler (2 Jul 2022)

Find another club.


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## PaulSB (2 Jul 2022)

So what? Some people ride expensive bikes.


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## Arrowfoot (2 Jul 2022)

I am fan of innovation and technology but the recent 105 announcement took the wind of me. Now this club thing.


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## IanSmithCSE (2 Jul 2022)

Good afternoon,

I don't ever remember the club run *not *being highly tech focused and wanting to exclude others, but back in the 1970s there wasn't much tech to focus on. It was 531 or get lost and Campag unless you were a tourist, when we will humour you on your Sun Tour stuff that cost a third as much........ but was probably better.

When I was at school there was a year that the BCF Schoolboy circuit championship was won by someone on a carbon steel Puch, admittedly with sprints and tubs, not only did he not have a frame from a local builder and clearly wasn't "one of the crowd" he committed the even greater sin of being fast.

I also know that there are lots of articles and studies designed to disprove that which is patently obviously true; All these supposedly insignificant upgrades do add up. Yikes CF/12 speed/aero is faster than Carbon Steel/3 speed/sit up and beg.

Maybe these upgrades don't matter to you anymore, if they ever did, and if you are as fast as the other riders then it doesn't matter what you ride. But if the ride wants to be as fast as possible and the other riders are happy to buy an extra 2/3mph then that is their choice. It simply means that you are no longer hip, cool, trendy and part of the "In Crowd".

25+ year old bikes are only just into the end of the 1990s, that wasn't long ago, was it........? okay it was, but it doesn't seem like it.

When I started work, I wanted a Raleigh Team Replica, this was in very early 1980s and they were around £500, so £3k is hardly a lot. It just seems it if you remember £500 being a lot.

Bye

Ian


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## PaulSB (2 Jul 2022)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good afternoon,
> 
> I don't ever remember the club run *not *being highly tech focused and* wanting to exclude others,* but back in the 1970s there wasn't much tech to focus on. It was 531 or get lost and Campag unless you were a tourist, when we will humour you on your Sun Tour stuff that cost a third as much........ but was probably better.
> 
> ...



I'd hate to ride with any clubs you've been unfortunate enough to join.

In my experience club rides are very inclusive and welcoming. The only criteria being individuals are expected to "respect the ride," and therefore the participants by not repeatedly turning up for a ride one is not able to keep up with.

In my view the suggestion club rides are exclusive is nonsense. I've been a mem er of three clubs.


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## vickster (2 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I'd hate to ride with any clubs you've been unfortunate enough to join.
> 
> In my experience club rides are very inclusive and welcoming. The only criteria being individuals are expected to "respect the ride," and therefore the participants by not repeatedly turning up for a ride one is not able to keep up with.
> 
> In my view the suggestion club rides are exclusive is nonsense. I've been a mem er of three clubs.



Clearly the OP is finding the opposite, also as other threads of his have also suggested.
Also, maybe finding another club in his area with rides that fit with his busy work and home life that doesn’t have such an attitude amongst its members isn’t feasible. Which is a shame as he says he has enjoyed club rides previously


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## cyberknight (2 Jul 2022)

When i ride i generally feel welcomed by the actual riders but feel out of place by not "keeping up with the joneses ", a member of the club is selling one second hand for £6500 ...............


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## fossyant (2 Jul 2022)

classic33 said:


> Isn't the "engine" the most important part of the bicycle when I'm use. The rest are optional to try and increase the speed/improve the time taken?



This, no much fancy kit makes you faster for us mortals.


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## Flick of the Elbow (2 Jul 2022)

cyberknight said:


> When i ride i generally feel welcomed by the actual riders but feel out of place by not "keeping up with the joneses ", a member of the club is selling one second hand for £6500 ...............



I know how you feel. I tried going out with a local club earlier this year but no matter how polite they were in their welcome I just couldn’t get over the fact that mostly they were clearly very, very loaded. All of their kit was top end and immaculate and there was talk of an insurance claim from which I learned that at least one of the riders was riding a bike worth £16 grand. It just felt intimidating.


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## Cycleops (2 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> This, no much fancy kit makes you faster for us mortals.


That's certainly true but it makes you *think* you're faster


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## IanSmithCSE (2 Jul 2022)

Good evening,



Cycleops said:


> That's certainly true but it makes you *think* you're faster


There is of course Di2, even in its 105 form, it does both. :-) :-) :-) :-)

Go on, embrace it, it will change your life........

...... just please don't change that Alan.........

....... It is of course primitive, but I remember seeing one in a shop new and it was State Of The Art, but there was also a Holdsworth frame that I could afford.

Bye

Ian


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## PaulSB (2 Jul 2022)

cyberknight said:


> When i ride i generally feel welcomed by the actual riders but feel out of place by not "keeping up with the joneses ", a member of the club is selling one second hand for £6500 ...............





Flick of the Elbow said:


> I know how you feel. I tried going out with a local club earlier this year but no matter how polite they were in their welcome I just couldn’t get over the fact that mostly they were clearly very, very loaded. All of their kit was top end and immaculate and there was talk of an insurance claim from which I learned that at least one of the riders was riding a bike worth £16 grand. It just felt intimidating.


I wonder if this depends on which part of the country one lives in. We have people in my club who ride expensive bikes but no one looks down their nose at other people.

Anyone who did behave that way would soon be put in their place


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## chris667 (2 Jul 2022)

It's all nonsense really. If you are fast enough that it makes a meaningful difference, you probably have someone paying for your bike and a van following you with a spare identical one.


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## Cycleops (2 Jul 2022)

'I'd never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member '.

Groucho Marx.


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## biggs682 (2 Jul 2022)

The club I ride with has one member and he can turn up on whatever he wants 😜


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## cougie uk (2 Jul 2022)

cyberknight said:


> The club ride , you know where you get together to have fun ride ?
> Turns out these days it seems carbon and electronic shifting are entry level requirements to ride with the group as last week i was the only one with cable shifting and the only one on a bike less than £2000 with the average being more like £3500 !
> Heres me on something that was £700 new and no sign of any better in the future trying to keep up with aero machines with carbon disc wheels .



Electric shifting won't make you any faster. 

All of my bikes are less than 2k. My mates bike is probably 6 or 7k - it's not about the bike.


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## rogerzilla (3 Jul 2022)

a.twiddler said:


> Find another club.


Most towns can only sustain one club so, if yours is poor, it's Hobson's choice.


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## Flick of the Elbow (3 Jul 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> Most towns can only sustain one club so, if yours is poor, it's Hobson's choice.



Very much so. In my experience you need to be exceptionally lucky to find a club run that has the right sort of atmosphere, the right sort of riding, and the right location and meeting time. I’ve spent 28 years trying to find one without success.


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## PaulSB (3 Jul 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> Most towns can only sustain one club so, if yours is poor, it's Hobson's choice.


 I hadn't realised how fortunate we are in this area. I could chose between at least 8 clubs with meet points between 6 and 10 miles


Flick of the Elbow said:


> Very much so. In my experience you need to be exceptionally lucky to find a club run that has the right sort of atmosphere, the right sort of riding, and the right location and meeting time. I’ve spent 28 years trying to find one without success.


 I agree each of those points are very important and while I always enjoyed riding with my first two clubs it's in my current one where I feel fully "at home." Six miles to the meet point which I feel is a nice warm up/warm down for a ride.


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## pawl (3 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> This, no much fancy kit makes you faster for us mortals.



Is that the reason why back in the day when I put those go faster stickers on my old Ford Anglia it didn’t go any faster.


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## bikingdad90 (3 Jul 2022)

@PaulSB I have the choice of two clubs; Cleveland wheelers or Stockton Cycling club. Both clubs have a mixture of riders from entry level (like myself) sub £700 bikes through to £10k+ bikes. 
Within the group they tend to do mixed sessions like a sprint for a sign or climb up the hills but they always regroup and have a cafe stop. 

Unfortunately for me, they both ride on Sundays which I can’t do and the midweek ride is a chain gang or track ride in winter so I’m stuck with no club. 

As for the gear, I look at 10-12 speed groupsets and then think what does it add over my 8 speed Claris R2000 except expense of repair/maintenance and closer gear shifts and then decide it is not worth it (although I am tempted by Sensah). I do draw the line at under bar routed cabling, just prefer the aesthetics more.


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## Sallar55 (3 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I know how you feel. I tried going out with a local club earlier this year but no matter how polite they were in their welcome I just couldn’t get over the fact that mostly they were clearly very, very loaded. All of their kit was top end and immaculate and there was talk of an insurance claim from which I learned that at least one of the riders was riding a bike worth £16 grand. It just felt intimidating.


Cycling is like any other hobby/sport all depends on what you want . If you compete its always trying to have an edge and if you are older it's this saying ( one told me the older I get the lighter the bike becomes)😁. Having a nice bike is not about showing how rich you are. Bet a lot of high end bikes are discounted last year's models so more affordable. Have you seen the way the electric scene is going that's where the money is for high end gear.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jul 2022)

cyberknight said:


> When i ride i generally feel welcomed by the actual riders but _*feel out of place*_ by not "keeping up with the joneses ", a member of the club is selling one second hand for £6500 ...............



Maybe that's your problem not theirs? I mean, do others actually _care _that you are on a museum piece that has ancient technology like cable shifters?


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## PaulSB (3 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Maybe that's your problem not theirs? I mean, do others actually _care _that you are on a museum piece that has ancient technology like cable shifters?


Well I'm glad you said it because this is what I've been thinking.


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## Ian H (3 Jul 2022)

My club organises road-races, crits, time-trials, audax events. Club runs are race-team, intermediate, and no-drop, to cater for a range of abilities & age. We have a youth academy section as well. Nobody looks down on others for their equipment or speed. We co-operate with other local clubs and there's generally a good friendly atmosphere. If you want to go faster, we have coaches who can advise on training.


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## Sittingduck (3 Jul 2022)

I’d be very surprised if many of the other rides give a monkies what bikes others are on, really. Regardless if they are on high end middle of the road or entry level. It sounds surprising to me and I haven’t really experienced much of this behaviour in any of the 3 clubs I have been a member of. Perhaps I am just lucky.


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## fossyant (3 Jul 2022)

OP doesn't ride with the Rapha lot. Miserable feckers that won't wave to anyone else, or let on.


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## Flick of the Elbow (3 Jul 2022)

My experience of local cycling clubs is that they have now become in large part showcases of how rich and successful you are. Bankers and the like who used to exercise bragging rights in wine bars (or golf clubs) now exercise them on clubruns.


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## wiggydiggy (3 Jul 2022)

Every thread I see complaining about club problems reminds me I am better off without one.


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## Sterlo (3 Jul 2022)

biggs682 said:


> The club I ride with has one member and he can turn up on whatever he wants 😜



I'm in a very exclusive club and I won't let anyone else join.


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## cyberknight (3 Jul 2022)

i think most thought i meant as a cost vs reward which i may have implied accidentality , the aim of my train of thought was more the spiralling costs bought on by the release of 105 at £1700


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## chris667 (8 Jul 2022)

It show's I've been a while since I last went on a club ride. Last time I went on a club, I was on my old Galaxy and so was about 60% of the rest of the club!

Bloody loved that bike. I did about 40,000 miles on it. Sold it to a hipster. Wish I hadn't!


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## Flick of the Elbow (8 Jul 2022)

Other than CTC sections I wonder if any clubs still accomodate touring bikes like the good old Galaxy ? Both of the English clubs that I rode with in the 80’s and 90’s had touring paced runs in addition to training/faster clubruns but they seem to be very sadly lacking here and now.


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## chris667 (8 Jul 2022)

I might go, although I don't have a bike like that any more.

You're making me want a bike. I will just think about replacing the bent axle... AGAIN. That's better.


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## FishFright (8 Jul 2022)

My local club has people with some lovely pieces of kit and surprisingly no one looks down on them. Are those folk too busy on the internet to actually go riding with friends ?


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jul 2022)

FishFright said:


> My local club has people with some lovely pieces of kit and surprisingly no one looks down on them. Are those folk too busy on the internet to actually go riding with friends ?



I think the "looking down" is normally in the imagination of the person who claims they were looked down on.

I remember when I was a member of a club I turned up at the start of the annual Brighton-and-back ride. Lots of cyclists milling around in a car park. There were two bikes next to each other that were attracting discussion and attention. One was DI2 equipped bike (DI2 was a new thing at the time) and one was my ancient and very crap Dawes with friction shifters. Cyclists just tend to be interested in bikes. All kinds of bikes.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Jul 2022)

The cycling demographic has changed. When I first joined a club in the late sixties it was very much a working class sport and all but a few had a strict budget for their bikes and equipment. During this century it has morphed into a middle class hobby for people with high disposable incomes who think nothing of spending the sort of money on a bike for which you can get a very decent used (Or even a new) car, and as much again for all the indoor stuff.

I preferred it like it used to be.


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## Petrichorwheels (20 Jul 2022)

Smokin Joe said:


> The cycling demographic has changed. When I first joined a club in the late sixties it was very much a working class sport and all but a few had a strict budget for their bikes and equipment. During this century it has morphed into a middle class hobby for people with high disposable incomes who think nothing of spending the sort of money on a bike for which you can get a very decent used (Or even a new) car, and as much again for all the indoor stuff.
> 
> I preferred it like it used to be.



one kinda wonders what will be next.
Football, cycling.
Next stop whippet racing?


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## Flick of the Elbow (20 Jul 2022)

I don’t mind the middle classes getting involved in cycling clubs as such, I just wish they wouldn’t use their involvement to showcase their wealth.


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## PaulSB (21 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I don’t mind the middle classes getting involved in cycling clubs as such, I just wish they wouldn’t use their involvement to showcase their wealth.



That's so very inclusive of you. Thank you. I hadn't realised my, perhaps wrongly, perceived position in society still influenced my life opportunities.

As a society I thought we had moved on but obviously not as much as I hoped.


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## Flick of the Elbow (21 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> That's so very inclusive of you. Thank you. I hadn't realised my, perhaps wrongly, perceived position in society still influenced my life opportunities.
> 
> As a society I thought we had moved on but obviously not as much as I hoped.



I had no problems ‘fitting in’ to the two traditional clubs that I rode with in England in the 80’s and 90’s. All I’m looking for is the replication of the same now. Is that too much to ask ?


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## PaulSB (21 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I had no problems ‘fitting in’ to the two traditional clubs that I rode with in England in the 80’s and 90’s. All I’m looking for is the replication of the same now. Is that too much to ask ?



Nothing's changed. It's easy enough fitting into a cycling club but with your attitude towards the "middle classes" perhaps that vibe is communicated to other members.


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## Venod (21 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I had no problems ‘fitting in’ to the two traditional clubs that I rode with in England in the 80’s and 90’s. All I’m looking for is the replication of the same now. Is that too much to ask ?



I have been in 2 Cycling clubs a Running club and 2 Orienteering Clubs, the first Cycling club was mostly working class, the latest one was a balance of middle class ( by the way I deplore the whole class thing) and working class but everybody got on fine, the running club was the same, the Orienteering clubs if I have to label them I would say definitely middle class but a fine set of people with like minded interests.

I don't know if you will find a club now of the old type, I have but its just a group of mates on Facebook who organise rides outside the club structure.

The club was getting too focused on rules and BC influence, so I left as did quite a few others, the Facebook group is just focused on rides, which is fine by me.


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## DCLane (21 Jul 2022)

As @Venod has put it happens in other clubs. Son no. 1 is into archery and there are two clubs near us. The first, which we _thought_ would be best for him as a 14yo a few years ago, turned out to be all about image and status. It put him off. The other was completely different and very friendly without any of the same issues.


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## fossyant (21 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Nothing's changed. It's easy enough fitting into a cycling club but with your attitude towards the "middle classes" perhaps that vibe is communicated to other members.



Can't say I've noticed any change either in clubs locally, unless you wanna be one of the Rapha gang, ignorant buggers they are.


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## Flick of the Elbow (21 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Nothing's changed.



An unbelievable statement !!!


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## iandg (21 Jul 2022)

Our club runs are split into 4 different groups based on average speed (30kph down to 24kph). The fast group is (obviously) full of the fast men on the bling carbon bikes. I usually sit with the 3rd group and it's a mix of slower riders on modern bling bikes and older riders on more traditional machines.

When I first joined a club in 1974 (Stafford RC) club runs were usually 1 group and a day of "touring" cycling. It lasted all day (often needed lights over winter for an evening finish) and had 2 or 3 cafe stops depending on distance and time of year. There would still be a mix of bikes - some on their factory built Raleighs and Dawes others on hand built machines with Campag bling (and training wheels).

A club run now (Dumfries CC) is more of a training ride. About 50 miles long, back by lunch time and no cafe stop. There is a monthly "away day" where riders meet at specified location and ride a longer route with a cafe stop (this Saturday they meet at New Galloway for an 80 mile route around Galloway Forest).

Another thing that's different is that club runs used to explore lanes and quiet roads with occasional "rough stuff" section thrown in to the mix. Now, club members with "modern" bikes and carbon wheels etc. continually complain about poor road surfaces and potholes and refuse to use certain roads because of their condition. Club run routes therefore tend to use short sections of busier roads to avoid poorly surfaced sections of lanes. I would rather the quieter sections were used with slower speeds where surface is poor.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jul 2022)

It’s what I like about audax. You’ll get a complete range of bikes and riders. Recumbents, trikes, touring bikes, race bikes, tri bikes, hybrids, friction shifters, DI2, steel, aluminium, carbon. You’ll get saddle bags, bar bags, top tube bags, bike packing bags, bugger all bags. As to riders some will be super fast but crap at navigation, others at the upper time limit, but solid on navigation. Last bit a bit of stereotyping. You will get riders in their 20s and riders in their 80s. You’ll get same at London Edinburgh London in just over two weeks.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

Something that often happens to me on audaxes is that I ride past a group, often in club colours, stopped for a wee stop or a mechanical or whatever. Then they zoom past, then I pass them again maybe another wee stop or they are sitting down at a control. This can go on for a very long time, and once we twig that we are all on the audax it can add quite a fun element as we start to recognise each other.


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## Sittingduck (21 Jul 2022)

How are people determining what class they perceive others to be in then? Assumptions based on the bike or accent or what? Just because somebody may happen to turn up on a well specced carbon bike with a decent wheelset - I don't think that means they are middle class, does it... Maybe the rider worked long and hard to save up enough pennies to invest in something they enjoy, just a thought.

I must have been lucky with clubs, by reading this thread. Been in three and none have had any of the class based separations or tension described upthread. Just a mix of folk out enjoying the rides. Ego (sometimes) can occasionally surface and cause minor niggles but certainly have never noticed anybody doing salary surveys at the start of a club run.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

The British obsession with class is somewhat depressing.


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think the "looking down" is normally in the imagination of the person who claims they were looked down on.



So what about when a member verbally criticises another for not riding a faster/better type of bike? Still imagination?


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## FishFright (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> So what about when a member verbally criticises another for not riding a faster/better type of bike? Still imagination?



When that happens come on here for the opposite view as the antidote . Balance achieved .


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## teeonethousand (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> So what about when a member verbally criticises another for not riding a faster/better type of bike? Still imagination?



I think you will find that people like that are insecure in themselves and so look for external things that they mistakenly think will make them look better in comparison


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> So what about when a member verbally criticises another for not riding a faster/better type of bike? Still imagination?



No. And if someone were to hit a rider with a hammer, screaming "Take that! That's for your horrible rim brakes!" that would not be imagination. If it ever happened.


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> No. And if someone were to hit a rider with a hammer, screaming "Take that! That's for your horrible rim brakes!" that would not be imagination. If it ever happened.



Ah. Do I detect you are deploying sarcasm to imply that these comments are, in fact, in the imagination of all those who hear them?

(Sarcasm: the lowest form of debate.)


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> Ah. Do I detect you are deploying sarcasm to imply that these comments are, in fact, in the imagination of all those who hear them?
> 
> (Sarcasm: the lowest form of debate.)


What comments are you referring to? Not seen any reported in this thread.


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> What comments are you referring to? Not seen any reported in this thread.



https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-club-and-the-upward-spiral-of-tech-prices.286265/post-6774767


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-club-and-the-upward-spiral-of-tech-prices.286265/post-6774767



How very circular.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> How very circular.



I saw that


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I saw that



I get around


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

Was my post unclear in some way? I've checked, it was short, and written in English!

I'm struggling to understand the confusion here ...


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> Was my post unclear in some way? I've checked, it was short, and written in English!
> 
> I'm struggling to understand the confusion here ...



It wasn't in English, it was a URL. Pointing to one of my posts. A little bit circular, non?


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

What I meant was, was my post not clear:


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## PaulSB (21 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> An unbelievable statement !!!



I've ridden with three clubs over the past 26/27 years. I live in Lancashire, have a very distinctive southern accent and I'm clearly what people somewhat ignorantly describe as middle-class. In that time I've never encountered any form of discussion about "class" and cycling. Nothing has changed.

You clearly have a problem with what you perceive as different classes of people. As I see it we are all equal and I make no distinction between people based on things such as background, education, accent etc. but take people as they come. You obviously do make distinctions which is rather sad.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> What I meant was, was my post not clear:
> 
> View attachment 653733



This is indeed insanely circular. I think I've already replied to that. 

I'll leave you going round in circles on this one.


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## matticus (21 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> This is indeed insanely circular. I think I've already replied to that.
> 
> I'll leave you going round in circles on this one.



Well you posted about hitting riders with hammers. I didn't really see that as a serious - let alone constructive - response.


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## Flick of the Elbow (21 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I've ridden with three clubs over the past 26/27 years. I live in Lancashire, have a very distinctive southern accent and I'm clearly what people somewhat ignorantly describe as middle-class. In that time I've never encountered any form of discussion about "class" and cycling. Nothing has changed.
> 
> You clearly have a problem with what you perceive as different classes of people. As I see it we are all equal and I make no distinction between people based on things such as background, education, accent etc. but take people as they come. You obviously do make distinctions which is rather sad.



You appear to live in cloud cuckoo land. But to be fair, it does sound as if it works very pleasantly for you so well done, I am very happy for you.


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## cougie uk (21 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> So what about when a member verbally criticises another for not riding a faster/better type of bike? Still imagination?



I can't recall that happening in the clubs I've been in. People have taken the piss out of people for riding dirty bikes which I think is fair enough.


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## DCLane (21 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I can't recall that happening in the clubs I've been in. People have taken the piss out of people for riding dirty bikes which I think is fair enough.



Dirty or squeaky bikes is fair game. It doesn't matter how expensive they are.

I _still_ get mentioned for having a squeaky pedal on a 200-mile ride about six years ago on a new Wilier Izoard full carbon set-up. Squeak - squeak - squeak for almost all the 200 miles


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## matticus (22 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I can't recall that happening in the clubs I've been in.



Thus proving that people vary. As will collections of people (such as clubs).


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> Well you posted about hitting riders with hammers. I didn't really see that as a serious - let alone constructive - response.



Is this what it means to “put the hammer 🔨 down” when a rider tries to get on your wheel without asking?


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## iandg (22 Jul 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> No. And if someone were to hit a rider with a hammer, screaming "Take that! That's for your horrible rim brakes!" that would not be imagination. If it ever happened.



Off topic anecdote - I once worked with a guy who had hit his wife with a hammer and killed her. He was back in the workplace having served his time at her majesty's pleasure. He cycled to work (as did I) and was complaining about cars cutting him up. I suggested that we get a tandem. When he passed my house he could leave his bike and we would ride tandem the final 8 miles to work. I suggested he piloted and I stoked and that I could have a hammer to bang cars that cut us up. He suggested that he'd go on the back as I was the better bike handler. I told him to f*** off, I wasn't having him sit behind me with a hammer. 😄


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## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

matticus said:


> What I meant was, was my post not clear:
> 
> View attachment 653733



Your post was perfectly clear, but appeared to be hypothetical, not a report of it actually happening.


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## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> You appear to live in cloud cuckoo land. But to be fair, it does sound as if it works very pleasantly for you so well done, I am very happy for you.



I think most of us probably live in what you think of as "cloud cuckoo land".

I can't really relate it to cycling clubs because I've never been a member of any (keep thinking about it, but have never actually got round to trying any), but his comments seem to apply to general life just as much.


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## matticus (22 Jul 2022)

iandg said:


> Off topic anecdote - I once worked with a guy who had hit his wife with a hammer and killed her. He was back in the workplace having served his time at her majesty's pleasure. He cycled to work (as did I) and was complaining about cars cutting him up. I suggested that we get a tandem. When he passed my house he could leave his bike and we would ride tandem the final 8 miles to work. I suggested he piloted and I stoked and that I could have a hammer to bang cars that cut us up. He suggested that he'd go on the back as I was the better bike handler. I told him to f*** off, I wasn't having him sit behind me with a hammer. 😄



Now THAT is bantz.


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## matticus (22 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Your post was perfectly clear, but appeared to be hypothetical, not a report of it actually happening.



Ah. Thanks, clearly I was NOT clear then! This has ACTUALLY happened.


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## Sallar55 (22 Jul 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I can't recall that happening in the clubs I've been in. People have taken the piss out of people for riding dirty bikes which I think is fair enough.


I think those days are over, having a winter bike is long gone in most cycling clubs. We used to have dirty bike competitions, cleaning the bike was riding in the rain. A plus was not needing to carry a lock for cafe stops. Happy days.


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## DCLane (22 Jul 2022)

@Sallar55 - I've got a winter bike  . It's also my summer commuter.

And I've got a winter commuter.
Plus a 'bad weather' commuter.

I must be out of date ...


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## Big T (22 Jul 2022)

I’m currently doing club rides on a 2nd hand Specialized that cost £300. No matter how good your bike, you still have to pedal it. Our aging club captain bought a Carbon winter bike as he thought he’d be able to keep up on rides better. He was wrong, you can’t outride Old Father Time. We have another member who has a full Carbon top end TT rig with disc wheel and all. Must have cost at least 6k. He struggles to beat 30 minutes for a 10 mile TT on it.

Some people fall in to the trap of thinking Tech makes you faster. Riding more and training makes you faster.

We have a rule that if you come out in winter on a bike with no mudguards, then you have to ride at the back of the group.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2022)

DCLane said:


> Dirty or squeaky bikes is fair game. It doesn't matter how expensive they are.
> 
> I _still_ get mentioned for having a squeaky pedal on a 200-mile ride about six years ago on a new Wilier Izoard full carbon set-up. Squeak - squeak - squeak for almost all the 200 miles



I got nicknamed 'Marigold' in my club as my bikes were always spotless. They still are !


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## matticus (22 Jul 2022)

Big T said:


> We have a rule that if you come out in winter on a bike with no mudguards, then you have to ride at the back of the group.


Great rule! 👍

(although unless it's enforced rigidly, the problems come because the faster riders do _tend _to also be the ones on bikes without guards - no, I don't know why - so want to ride up at the front all the time ... )


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## Alex321 (22 Jul 2022)

Big T said:


> I’m currently doing club rides on a 2nd hand Specialized that cost £300. No matter how good your bike, you still have to pedal it. Our aging club captain bought a Carbon winter bike as he thought he’d be able to keep up on rides better. He was wrong, you can’t outride Old Father Time. We have another member who has a full Carbon top end TT rig with disc wheel and all. Must have cost at least 6k. He struggles to beat 30 minutes for a 10 mile TT on it.



So would I - on any bike  

Maybe if it was completely flat and no wind I could do it.




Big T said:


> Some people fall in to the trap of thinking Tech makes you faster. Riding more and training makes you faster.
> 
> We have a rule that if you come out in winter on a bike with no mudguards, then you have to ride at the back of the group.



What is this concept of "no mudguards"?

My bike gets used in all weathers, and we don't have enough reliably dry days in Sout Wales to be worth the hassle of taking mudguards off.


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## Big T (22 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> So would I - on any bike
> 
> Maybe if it was completely flat and no wind I could do it.
> 
> ...



I have a summer bike, that has no mudguards and a winter bike which always has mudguards. I choose according to the weather, but the summer bike never gets ridden outside between October and March. It lives on the turbo trainer then. Even if it’s not actually raining in the winter, the roads are often damp/wet.


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## Flick of the Elbow (22 Jul 2022)

I had to give up work in large part because I couldn’t adapt to the rejection of what I was used to and had grown up with. Sadly it looks like I’m going to have to give up club cycling for the same reason. It was nice while it lasted.


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## cougie uk (22 Jul 2022)

Sallar55 said:


> I think those days are over, having a winter bike is long gone in most cycling clubs. We used to have dirty bike competitions, cleaning the bike was riding in the rain. A plus was not needing to carry a lock for cafe stops. Happy days.



We've never locked a bike up at a cafe and never had an incident either. 

Why would you not have a winter bike ?


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## Venod (22 Jul 2022)

Sallar55 said:


> having a winter bike is long gone in most cycling clubs


Is there any evidence to support this ? winter bikes have always been popular here in Yorkshire and as far as I can see still are.


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## fossyant (22 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> I had to give up work in large part because I couldn’t adapt to the rejection of what I was used to and had grown up with. Sadly it looks like I’m going to have to give up club cycling for the same reason. It was nice while it lasted.



Why.....

Out ran two fellas on new carbon fab dabby dosey machines last weekend - one was on a F12 Dogma. I was on my old 32 year old bike.... that said, it was a money no bars bike then.... custom farme, Dura Ace etc, feck em. You are the engine !


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## PaulSB (22 Jul 2022)

Alex321 said:


> I think most of us probably live in what you think of as "cloud cuckoo land".
> 
> I can't really relate it to cycling clubs because I've never been a member of any (keep thinking about it, but have never actually got round to trying any), but *his comments seem to apply to general life just as much.*



Thank you at least one person gets it.


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## PaulSB (22 Jul 2022)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> You appear to live in cloud cuckoo land. But to be fair, it does sound as if it works very pleasantly for you so well done,* I am very happy for you.*



I feel very sorry for you as someone who seems to live in a bygone era. For any thinking person class does not exist in 2022.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Jul 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I feel very sorry for you as someone who seems to live in a bygone era. For any thinking person class does not exist in 2022.



True. 

But sadly, thinking people aren't necessarily all that common.


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