# Speedwatch group more alarmed by cyclists than speeding cars...



## tom73 (14 Jun 2019)

Group found cars going 40 in a 30 zone one going 50. 

“What was perhaps more alarming were the cyclists who on average came past the bus stop at between 30 to 35mph,” said the group’s manager, Gregg Manning.

He believes combined impact rider and bike would have on a pedestrian would cause serious injuries or even death. But not a speeding car it look's 

He even admits cyclist not breaking the law but then add's “What is even worse is that unlike bikers who wear protective clothing, these riders wear the thinnest of material with lots of bare flesh. Bare flesh and tarmac do not mix.

Remind me how many car's kill someone each year ?
Sound's like when I got smashed up by a car I should think at least it was not a cyclist with bare flesh on show. 

https://road.cc/content/news/262249...0mph-motorists-says-dartmoor-speedwatch-group


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## lazybloke (14 Jun 2019)

On average? Steep hill or was a pro race coming through?


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jun 2019)

Oh dear, does he write part time for the DM?


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## Flying Dodo (14 Jun 2019)

1,800 road deaths and 150,000 + incidents caused by motor vehicles are accepted as a normal thing, just like speeding cars. They're background noise, something always there. 

Cyclists stand out as an outlier - they're not there in the background - they're different. That's why people want to control them. Make them wear hi-viz, helmets etc. Anything to stop them causing an issue.


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## glasgowcyclist (14 Jun 2019)

tom73 said:


> Group found cars going 40 in a 30 zone one going 50.



A small correction; the article says the speeding drivers were in a 40mph zone, not a 30.

So the cyclists were within the posted limit yet he thinks they need to be singled out above the risk posed by cars being driven above the limit. The man is an idiot.


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## tom73 (14 Jun 2019)

@glasgowcyclist Oh ok miss read that bit (been a long day) hope you let me off .

Wonder if he’d be willing to test out his point of view?


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## Shut Up Legs (14 Jun 2019)

tom73 said:


> Group found cars going 40 in a 30 zone one going 50.
> 
> “What was perhaps more alarming were the cyclists who on average came past the bus stop at between 30 to 35mph,” said the group’s manager, Gregg Manning.
> 
> ...


The same kind of hypocritical rubbish is printed in Australia frequently. I'm glad I'm leaving the house this morning to spend a month overseas, because Australia's attitude to cyclists is deplorable.


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## NorthernDave (15 Jun 2019)

So bikes doing less than the speed limit (which doesn't apply to them), are more dangerous than cars exceeding the speed limit that does apply to them?


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## IanSmithCSE (15 Jun 2019)

Good morning,

Initially I felt the same as others but if you read the article and remember that it comes from a local paper where it may be assumed that the readers know the area it does make some sort of sense.

Not a lot of sense, but some, that car drivers speed is accepted, and not news.

_That really is too fast to be entering any village, let alone one where the road narrows to a single lane over the bridge._

The concern, whether real or not seems to be that cyclists, who may be quiet on the roads are going into a change of road where the road narrows to a single lane and a bridge without having any way of knowing what is on the other side of the bridge.






https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...x821868080bb6caa0!8m2!3d50.595264!4d-3.905352

If you look really carefully you can see a footpath that crosses the road just as it narrows and passes over the river. 

If you are on that footpath it may not be possible to see a cyclist as he will be hidden by the bridge until he is actually on the bridge, at that point a crash seems inevitable.

If the road really is that dangerous why does it have a 40mph speed limit though?

Bye

Ian


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## classic33 (15 Jun 2019)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good morning,
> 
> Initially I felt the same as others but if you read the article and remember that it comes from a local paper where it may be assumed that the readers know the area it does make some sort of sense.
> 
> ...


You are supposed to keep your eyes open for other road users though, as well as your ears. Sat inside something removes any chance of the ears catching the approach of a cyclist though.

A Parish Councillor, who's also a fan of keeping the roads near his house quiet and free flowing. Most of the speed checks done around the volunteers addresses, and his.


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## Bonefish Blues (15 Jun 2019)

As a Parish Councillor, he has to live within his Parish, and he would have no ability to operate a Speedwatch anywhere other than in the Parish. I expect that's why they happen hear the addresses of those who live in the Parish.


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## raleighnut (15 Jun 2019)

Bonefish Blues said:


> As a Parish Councillor



He's a nobber, as are most of the 'nimby' crowd.


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## Bonefish Blues (15 Jun 2019)

I have no knowledge of him to be able to make a judgement like yours, I was explaining the limit of their jurisdiction.


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## bladderhead (15 Jun 2019)

So who is this "group" and who is Gregg Manning? People like this used to write to their local newspapers in green ink all the time. Now they are all over the internet and the local papers are disappearing. The internet is full of cobblers of all kinds. I should know, I am a prolific contributor. Why does Gregg Manning matter more than me?


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## classic33 (15 Jun 2019)

Bonefish Blues said:


> As a Parish Councillor, he has to live within his Parish, and he would have no ability to operate a Speedwatch anywhere other than in the Parish. I expect that's why they happen hear the addresses of those who live in the Parish.


All within a small area, that doesn't cover all the parish.


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## Bonefish Blues (15 Jun 2019)

classic33 said:


> All within a small area, that doesn't cover all the parish.


... which has a single concentration of population, by the looks of it. Let's be sensible.


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## tom73 (15 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> So bikes doing less than the speed limit (which doesn't apply to them), are more dangerous than cars exceeding the speed limit that does apply to them?



Not forgetting " lots of bare flesh" we seamingly flash as we speed past


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## chriscross1966 (16 Jun 2019)

NorthernDave said:


> So bikes doing less than the speed limit (which doesn't apply to them), are more dangerous than cars exceeding the speed limit that does apply to them?


The speed limits do apply if the bike is being actively pedalled (not freewheeling down a hill) from memory the offense is something like "cycling furiously"


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## palinurus (16 Jun 2019)

tom73 said:


> “...perhaps more alarming were the cyclists who on average came past the bus stop at between 30 to 35mph,”



*rubs chin* Jimmy Hill.


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## glasgowcyclist (16 Jun 2019)

chriscross1966 said:


> The speed limits do apply if the bike is being actively pedalled (not freewheeling down a hill) from memory the offense is something like "cycling furiously"




I'm afraid that's wrong on all counts. 

Speed limits do not apply to cycles (excepting Royal Parks) and there is no offence of cycling furiously. You may be thinking of the offence for which Charlie Alliston was convicted after he struck and killed a pedestrian, Kim Briggs, which was the offence of furious driving. Note that this offence is only applicable when the furious driving results in bodily injury to a third party. 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/35


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## chriscross1966 (16 Jun 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm afraid that's wrong on all counts.
> 
> Speed limits do not apply to cycles (excepting Royal Parks) and there is no offence of cycling furiously. You may be thinking of the offence for which Charlie Alliston was convicted after he struck and killed a pedestrian, Kim Briggs, which was the offence of furious driving. Note that this offence is only applicable when the furious driving results in bodily injury to a third party.
> 
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/35


I was thinking of the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act,
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89
which mentions nuicance caused by driving or riding furiously, and by precedent that has (a very long time ago) been applied to bicycles...


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## DaveReading (16 Jun 2019)

chriscross1966 said:


> I was thinking of the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act,
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89
> which mentions nuisance caused by driving or riding furiously, and by precedent that has (a very long time ago) been applied to bicycles...



I can't see any mention of a distinction between pedalling or freewheeling there.


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Jun 2019)

chriscross1966 said:


> I was thinking of the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act,
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89
> which mentions nuicance caused by driving or riding furiously, and by precedent that has (a very long time ago) been applied to bicycles...



Sorry that link points to a whole load of stuff including chimneys catching fire. Did not find this furious bit can you indicate which clause it is on that page?


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (16 Jun 2019)

palinurus said:


> *rubs chin* Jimmy Hill.



Indeed. Chinny reck-on.


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## jarlrmai (17 Jun 2019)

https://www.strava.com/segments/2418017

Looks like the road has steep grade so 30+mph is not out of the question going downhill.


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## Aravis (17 Jun 2019)

jarlrmai said:


> https://www.strava.com/segments/2418017
> 
> Looks like the road has steep grade so 30+mph is not out of the question going downhill.


As the fastest times for the whole 1.74km of that segment average at over 40mph, evidently not!

The finishing line is about 75 metres beyond this bridge, opposite the entrance to the village stores:


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (17 Jun 2019)

jarlrmai said:


> https://www.strava.com/segments/2418017
> 
> Looks like the road has steep grade so 30+mph is not out of the question going downhill.



I stand corrected. A shame because people don't use this enough anymore....



palinurus said:


> *rubs chin* Jimmy Hill.


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## Bonefish Blues (17 Jun 2019)

Aravis said:


> As the fastest times for the whole 1.74km of that segment average at over 40mph, evidently not!
> 
> The finishing line is about 75 metres beyond this bridge, opposite the entrance to the village stores:
> 
> View attachment 471237


A fuller picture than hitherto.

If one then looks at crashmap for the area, there have been a lot of serious accidents on that road (although only one with slight injury at that specific location, interestingly), so the sensitivity of the community can perhaps be understood.


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## NorthernDave (17 Jun 2019)

Aravis said:


> As the fastest times for the whole 1.74km of that segment average at over 40mph, evidently not!
> 
> The finishing line is about 75 metres beyond this bridge, opposite the entrance to the village stores:
> 
> View attachment 471237



Looks like you could get some air over that bridge too.


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Jun 2019)

chriscross1966 said:


> I was thinking of the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act,
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/10-11/89
> which mentions nuicance caused by driving or riding furiously, and by precedent that has (a very long time ago) been applied to bicycles...




I've been able to find only a single reference to the use of that act in relation to cycling, back in 1997.

A rider was stopped by police for doing 25mph in a 30 zone, arrested and reportedly faced a fine of £120 which he was refusing to pay. It's clear therefore that the
cyclist was not prosecuted for speeding. 
Rather, the pretext for the police's action was, as you mentioned, Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 which refers to the furious driving or riding of any horse or carriage. However, there's no subsequent reporting that I can find of his conviction or acquittal so it may be that it never reached court.


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## winjim (16 Dec 2019)

Now then, what's going on here? There's a lot to pick apart in this story...

https://road.cc/content/news/269597...lists-caught-speeding-speedwatch-group-he-set


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## Drago (16 Dec 2019)

I once caught an entire speedwatch group speeding as they left a training event at police HQ.


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