# I'm thinking about getting a German Shepherd



## Accy cyclist (5 Jan 2016)

The area around here is getting a little too rough. I've thought about security cameras and police calls but i don't think this deters the undesirables. I think there are a few on here who either own or have owned such a dog in the past? I already have a small dog, so my main concern is would my little Jack Russell/ Shih Tzu be safe with a bigger dog? I don't work as many hours as i used to so time spent with the dog wouldn't be a problem. I have my eye on a rescue dog, i don't want to spend hundreds and hundreds on a puppy and there are so many dogs in homes that need a new home!


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2016)

If you will be leaving the dog all day, it will be bored and lonely and will probably bark and annoy your neighbours. When you take it out for its twice-daily walk and toilet your house will be exposed to burglary. Why not spend the money on better security or move to somewhere better?


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## Brandane (5 Jan 2016)

This needs less looking after...........


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## Paulus (5 Jan 2016)

Good idea getting a dog from a rescue centre. Just take some care when choosing to get the background information on the chosen one. Most dogs will get on with other dogs in the house, but watch out for problems with your terrier/cross as it may try to be the dominate dog as the sitting tenant.


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## Durian (5 Jan 2016)

Get yourself some geese instead, not only are they good guards but if you get hungry you can kill and eat one.


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## Cubist (5 Jan 2016)

Don't. 

A rescue GSD is going to be a rescue dog because its not right for the owner. It may be the owner's fault or the dog might be a nightmare. It takes months and months of expert training to turn a GSD into a safe security dog from puppyhood, and not all of them make the grade. If you take on a reject I suspect you won't have the expertise to turn it around from where it is now to where you want it to be. They're large, powerful dogs and a massive responsibility in anybody's hands. A novice taking on a potential nightmare is a recipe for disaster.


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## raleighnut (5 Jan 2016)

Unless you've had a GSD before I'd avoid a rescue dog, a pup you could 'bring on' would be fine but an older dog. 

I'd also be wary of using a dog for security, a guy I know from down the pub had his house broken into and they stole his 2 Rottweilers.


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## Licramite (5 Jan 2016)

Oh sorry from the title I thought you had a problem with sheep.
chances are a small barky dog would do just as well, - I don't see how getting a big aggressive (if you train it right) dog is going t make your life easier.
I would buy a home security system - the little box outside and the odd camera will put off the local scrotts. -


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## Gravity Aided (5 Jan 2016)

My neighbor has a GSD, they are only as good as their training, according to him. They are naturally loyal but not naturally guard dogs. My rescue dogs have all been protective, probably because they appreciate us getting them out of that shelter. I currently have a Harrier that is a great guard dog. Good lighting and maybe a home security system would be a better option than adding a dog just for protection. Even a fake home security camera is better than none at all.


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## ColinJ (5 Jan 2016)

[QUOTE 4088265, member: 9609"]
I knew a bloke with a scrap yard, he used to have two or three Alsations that would roam the yard at night time, they were seriously scary beasts, _*he used to train them when they were young by leaving them by themselves in the yard, he would then get a stranger to come in and beat them to within an inch*_ - once that had happened to them a couple of times, the dogs did not welcome strangers.[/QUOTE]
_NICE_ guy!


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## stephec (5 Jan 2016)

ColinJ said:


> _NICE_ guy!


Beat me to it there.

I've heard of rubbing a dog's nose in it, but that's going a bit far.


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## vickster (5 Jan 2016)

Better locks, security lights and a burglar alarm would be cheaper

Or move as someone suggested, also probably cheaper than feeding, insuring a large dog, paying a dog walker etc for 10+ years


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2016)

I used to visit a Hungarian guy who had a warehouse full of valuable goods in a ropey part of Budapest. In one corner was a stinking, filthy cage containing a very large baboon, which he let out at night. I don't suppose he had many burglaries.


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## swee'pea99 (5 Jan 2016)

A cautionary tale (or three): 

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeWxHpC-9wk


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## Fnaar (5 Jan 2016)

Globalti said:


> I used to visit a Hungarian guy who had a warehouse full of valuable goods in a ropey part of Budapest. In one corner was a stinking, filthy cage containing a very large baboon, which he let out at night. I don't suppose he had many burglaries.


This reminds me of a certain night chez Miss Goodbody. The Vicar still can't watch Tarzan without shaking.


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## snorri (5 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> The area around here is getting a little too rough,


Your neighbourhood wiIl be no less rough with the addition of a German Shepherd.


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## ColinJ (5 Jan 2016)

Globalti said:


> I used to visit a Hungarian guy who had a warehouse full of valuable goods in a ropey part of Budapest. In one corner was a stinking, filthy cage containing a very large baboon, which he let out at night. I don't suppose he had many burglaries.


How did he get it back in the cage in the morning ...?


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## Piemaster (5 Jan 2016)

Brandane said:


> This needs less looking after...........


I don't think the dog would be much good at swinging that. Though you could probably train it to fetch it for you.

[QUOTE 4088265, member: 9609"]
I knew a bloke with a scrap yard, he used to have two or three Alsations that would roam the yard at night time, they were seriously scary beasts, he used to train them when they were young by leaving them by themselves in the yard, he would then get a stranger to come in and beat them to within an inch - once that had happened to them a couple of times, the dogs did not welcome strangers.[/QUOTE]
I've got a relative that had a back street garage with a similar arrangement, big 'DOG LOOSE IN YARD' sign. He only kept one dog, it lived in a donor car and he and his business partner were the only ones who could handle it, or for that matter even want to go near it. Was never mistreated though, it didn't need to be as it was bright. One of his neighbours spotted someone climbing over the wall with nefarious intentions one night. Dog was nowhere to be seen, at first anyway. It was waiting until the victim was well into the yard first...

Aren't there changes in the law about responsibilities for dog attacks/bites even on your own property now?


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## Andy_R (5 Jan 2016)

Piemaster said:


> I don't think the dog would be much good at swinging that. Though you could probably train it to fetch it for you.
> 
> 
> I've got a relative that had a back street garage with a similar arrangement, big 'DOG LOOSE IN YARD' sign. He only kept one dog, it lived in a donor car and he and his business partner were the only ones who could handle it, or for that matter even want to go near it. Was never mistreated though, it didn't need to be as it was bright. One of his neighbours spotted someone climbing over the wall with nefarious intentions one night. Dog was nowhere to be seen, at first anyway. It was waiting until the victim was well into the yard first...
> ...



Yup. If your dog is loose in your premises and someone breaks in and gets bitten, you are as responsible for it as if it happened in a public place, especially if you deliberately get a dog as a guard dog.


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## ScotiaLass (5 Jan 2016)

Another who says, in this circumstance, avoid a rescue.
Your smaller dogs would not be at any more risk from a GSD, than from any other! 
In fact it's been reported that smaller dogs, esp Jack Russells, Chihuahua's etc are far more aggressive with people and other dogs than a GSD.
I'd agree with home security and some good lighting, light timers etc


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## Piemaster (5 Jan 2016)

ScotiaLass said:


> In fact it's been reported that smaller dogs, esp Jack Russells, Chihuahua's etc are far more aggressive with people and other dogs than a GSD.


JR - only dog I've ever been bitten by that meant it, no warning at all. Ripped a pair of jeans which probably stopped it being any worse.
My parents had a couple of Cavalier King Charles that had their typical lovely temperament, except when they had a beef bone (quite rarely) when they were very possessive. Lots of warning growling and snarling leaving you doubt it was theirs and you could sod off


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## ayceejay (5 Jan 2016)

I dunno a German shepherd sounds a bit tame, what about a German wrestler?


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## rich p (5 Jan 2016)

I believe that it's enshrined in the British Constitution 2nd Amendment
..._being necessary to the security of a free ghetto, the right of the people to keep and bare arms (and tattoos) and keep mad dogs, shall not be infringed._
Summink like that anyway. Possibly the right to arms bears (and baboons)


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## ColinJ (5 Jan 2016)

rich p said:


> I believe that it's enshrined in the British Constitution 2nd Amendment
> ..._being necessary to the security of a free ghetto, the right of the people to keep and bare arms (and tattoos) and keep mad dogs, shall not be infringed._
> Summink like that anyway. Possibly the right to arms bears (and baboons)


And the baboons to bare bottoms?


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## perplexed (5 Jan 2016)

I'd recommend getting some tips from Home Alone...


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## fossyant (5 Jan 2016)

I would have thought the Jack Russell cross would be a bigger deterrent - they only need to bark to alert the owner. 

I also thought GSD's were great pets generally, just 'BIG'. They really don't deserve the reputation. Thing is, any rescue dog will have problems that you would need to work out. You'd also be best if you could introduce your dog to the 'potential' one at a rescue centre before making a decision.

We'd love a dog, especially as the two older cats are no longer with us, but the big bruiser might not be too happy


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## Globalti (5 Jan 2016)

When I used to mountain bike my brother and I used to enjoy doing a ride that started in a place called Gauxholme (@ColinJ will know it). You had to open a gate and follow a ROW through a builder's yard to gain access to a lovely old cart track that curves sinuously up the hillside above. In the builder's yard was a psychopathic dog on a chain that was just short enough to prevent it reaching you as you sidled past. Once we had got outside the second gate we would stop for a while and piss the dog off by lobbing stones onto the corrugated iron roof of its kennel, which always drove it mad. You can see where this is going, can't you? 

Anyway one day we entered the yard and were heading for the far gate and out came the dog came from its kennel as always, barking and slavering, like an Exocet missile. But when it reached the end of the chain, instead of the usual neck-breaking sudden stop, _the collar broke_ and to our horror the dog was free. We nearly pooed in our Ron Hills. We put the bikes between us and the rabid dog and sidled past saying "Nice doggie!" but strangely the dog didn't come near us; either it hadn't realised its collar had gone or it simply didn't consider the narrow strip of the ROW to be its territory. We didn't go back there again after that fright.


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## ScotiaLass (5 Jan 2016)

Piemaster said:


> JR - only dog I've ever been bitten by that meant it, no warning at all. Ripped a pair of jeans which probably stopped it being any worse.
> My parents had a couple of Cavalier King Charles that had their typical lovely temperament, except when they had a beef bone (quite rarely) when they were very possessive. Lots of warning growling and snarling leaving you doubt it was theirs and you could sod off


I really dislike small dogs for that reason. I have had 3 GSD's, raised alongside 5 children, including newborns, and hand on heart, I never had one incident. Ever. Of course, I would never leave a dog of any type, alone with my children. 
I think training is key as well. My kids could take a treat from any of our dogs, and the dog would sit and wait, as it was trained to do.


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## Accy cyclist (5 Jan 2016)

Maybe i didn't explain myself properly. It's not a fear of being burgled as this area is virtually burglar free. I want one for when i walk out at night time, or if there are some undesirables outside intent on causing trouble.


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## vickster (5 Jan 2016)

I'd definitely be looking to move if I didnt feel safe walking around my neighbourhood at night!

You'll want to look into the costs of running a big dog if wanting to go that way, especially as you'd be best getting a pup for the reasons stated above, purchase has to be a grand to start for a pure breed


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## raleighnut (5 Jan 2016)

fossyant said:


> I would have thought the Jack Russell cross would be a bigger deterrent - they only need to bark to alert the owner.
> 
> I also thought GSD's were great pets generally, just 'BIG'. They really don't deserve the reputation. Thing is, any rescue dog will have problems that you would need to work out. You'd also be best if you could introduce your dog to the 'potential' one at a rescue centre before making a decision.
> 
> ...


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## ufkacbln (5 Jan 2016)




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## raleighnut (5 Jan 2016)

[QUOTE 4088648, member: 9609"]Thankfully having guard dogs roaming loose in scrap yards and coal yards seems to be a thing of the past, or at least I am unaware of it where i live now. And if I did see it I would make the RSPCA aware and hope that they would ensure they were being correctly looked after.[/QUOTE]
As long as the dog has shelter from the weather, clean water and is not underweight then the RSPCA/SSPCA won't/can't do anything.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Jan 2016)

Reminds me of the guy with the Bentley..
he parked up in liverpool ,he was quickley approached by 4 youths...
they said £50 to guard the car Sir....

have you seen the 2 Rottweilers in the back..the car dont need protecting..

can they put fires out ??


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## Levo-Lon (5 Jan 2016)

considder a bigger dog if you feel threatened..but some crooks with dog baiting habits will attack you for the bloody dog..fooked up world im affraid..


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## SD1 (5 Jan 2016)

All gaurd dogs at the maze were German Shepherds (or versions of one! ). But you want it to protect you outside the home? Anything that looks scary will do. BUT alas it should not wag it's tail at ever body. So in your case you need an aggressive dog which is pulling you i.e. not at heel (it looks aggressive)
Umm you are in quandary. You obviously don't want a dog which Is actually aggressive just one who looks aggressive but will protect you if required to. Luck may get you the right dog if not a lot of training.
Get a taxi?

Staffys are as soft as shite but look the part.
"Staffordshire Bull Terrier is known for its character of fearlessness and loyalty.[10] This, coupled with its affection for its friends, its off-duty quietness and trustworthy stability, make it a foremost all-purpose dog.[11]

The breed is naturally muscular and may appear intimidating; however, because of their natural fondness for people, most Staffords are temperamentally ill-suited for guard or attack-dog training"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier


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## steve50 (5 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Maybe i didn't explain myself properly. It's not a fear of being burgled as this area is virtually burglar free. I want one for when i walk out at night time, or if there are some undesirables outside intent on causing trouble.


A German Shepherd is a good choice of dog both as a pet and a guard dog, they become very protective of their owners very quickly if treated right. I have two GSD and am very confident should anyone with bad intentions were to approach me or mine uninvited they would get plenty of vocal warning from my dogs with the potential to get bitten if they persisted.

The dog laws have changed quite dramatically regards dogs in public places and dogs out of control etc but if your dog protects you or your family from attack / burglary on your private property you are within your rights. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-What-pet-owners-need-to-know-from-today.html

My Two dogs


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## vernon (5 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Maybe i didn't explain myself properly. It's not a fear of being burgled as this area is virtually burglar free. I want one for when i walk out at night time, or if there are some undesirables outside intent on causing trouble.



Have you thought of the possibility that you might become viewed as an undesirable, intent on causing trouble if you are parading around the streets with a GSD on a leash?


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## Accy cyclist (5 Jan 2016)

vernon said:


> Have you thought of the possibility that you might become viewed as an undesirable, intent on causing trouble if you are parading around the streets with a GSD on a leash?




I don't think so. Maybe many years ago when i was young the undesirables had German Shepherds which were then called Alsatians. They didn't have them on leads which scared the public,but now they have American Bulldogs and "Staffie" types off the leads scaring the public.
I haven't seen a dodgy looking type with a German Shepherd in a very long time. Maybe they can't afford them or they think their Bulldogs are "harder"? The ones i see now with German Shepherds are mostly middle aged men or couples.


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## steve50 (5 Jan 2016)

vernon said:


> Have you thought of the possibility that you might become viewed as an undesirable, intent on causing trouble if you are parading around the streets with a GSD on a leash?


why should anyone be considered "undesirable" just because they walk with a German shepherd or a Rottweiler or a labradoodle or a great dane or any breed of dog for that matter????


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## Accy cyclist (5 Jan 2016)

steve50 said:


> why should anyone be considered "undesirable" just because they walk with a German shepherd or a Rottweiler or a labradoodle or a great dane or any breed of dog for that matter????



Great Danes are gentle giants. There's one on my round. I climb over the high fence to get to the windows, it barks like billyo but doesn't come near me. The only thing to watch out for are its dumps, if you get one of those on your shoes you're in trouble!


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## vernon (5 Jan 2016)

steve50 said:


> why should anyone be considered "undesirable" just because they walk with a German shepherd or a Rottweiler or a labradoodle or a great dane or any breed of dog for that matter????



There isn't a universal fondness for dogs....


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## Seevio (5 Jan 2016)

When I saw the title of the post, all I thought about was some guy with lederhosen and a smock.


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## Accy cyclist (5 Jan 2016)

vernon said:


> There isn't a universal fondness for dogs....



You sound like the bloke doing the radio phone in i've just turned off. He thinks all dogs are bad because he got bit by one when he was younger!


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## vernon (6 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> You sound like the bloke doing the radio phone in i've just turned off. He thinks all dogs are bad because he got bit by one when he was younger!



I didn't say that I wasn't fond of dogs....

I am my neighbour's pooch's favourite playmate.

You need to be careful with your assumptions.


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## Accy cyclist (6 Jan 2016)

vernon said:


> I didn't say that I wasn't fond of dogs....
> 
> I am my neighbour's pooch's favourite playmate.
> 
> You need to be careful with your assumptions.





Sorry, i had you down as a couldn't care about animal welfare type. Now i know you do.


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## Gravity Aided (6 Jan 2016)

Seevio said:


> When I saw the title of the post, all I thought about was some guy with lederhosen and a smock.


Don't forget that green pointy hat with the pheasant feather.


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## Saluki (6 Jan 2016)

If you want to feel safe out walking, you need a Jack Russell. Anyone who approaches me, while out walking, does so at their own peril. She's on a short lead but she's not very user friendly. She'll walk past people quite happily but I don't trust her an inch. In the house, with us, she's a happy, well adjusted, wonderful, affectionate, cuddly little princess. With strangers or out of the house, she will rip your arm off and beat you to death with the wet end. We love her very much.

I've worked with dogs for decades, the only time I have been bitten, when the dog meant business, was by a JRT. I've been nipped by quite a few dogs, over the years, but there is real intent when a Jack sinks their teething in to you.

Rescue GSDs are lovely dogs, if you know what you are doing. There is an awful lot of dog there if you have a nervy, sharp one. My Dad bred GSDs and, over the years, we've had loads of them. They are fine with small dogs too. It's sighthounds that are not so great with small dogs. There are a lot of scumbuckets out there who will mug you for your dog. Especially bigger ones.

Rather than getting a dog as a protective measure, have you considered a self defense course? Fun to do and teach you practical skills.


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## Globalti (6 Jan 2016)

Get one of these:


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jan 2016)

You're all mentalists. 

Also, can I put in a word for tigers. They are crazy mothas.


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## Cubist (6 Jan 2016)

Globalti said:


> Get one of these:


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Jan 2016)

If Cycle Chat was a real life situation


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## Mugshot (6 Jan 2016)

Sounds like a stupid reason to be getting a dog as far as I'm concerned. However, have you considered the consequences of you wandering the streets with your big hard looking dog on the lead whilst there are others that;


Accy cyclist said:


> now they have American Bulldogs and "Staffie" types off the leads scaring the public.


How do you think you and your doggy are going to get on if one of these other dogs decides it wants to have a go? Are you going to carry a big stick to try to prise them apart or are you going to leave them to it and hope your dog doesn't get chewed up too badly?


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## raleighnut (6 Jan 2016)

Marmion said:


> If Cycle Chat was a real life situation


Not enough cripples though.


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## steve50 (6 Jan 2016)

I also thought GSD's were great pets generally said:


> I don't think so. Maybe many years ago when i was young the undesirables had German Shepherds which were then called Alsatians. They didn't have them on leads which scared the public,but now they have American Bulldogs and "Staffie" types off the leads scaring the public.
> I haven't seen a dodgy looking type with a German Shepherd in a very long time. Maybe they can't afford them or they think their Bulldogs are "harder"? The ones i see now with German Shepherds are mostly middle aged men or couples.



There is no such thing as an Alsation, the name alsation was introduced during the 1st world war when anything with the name "German" was frowned upon. German shepherds originated in a town on the German borders called Alsace, when war broke out it was decided the name German shepherd was not acceptable , so changed the name to Alsation. http://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-history-i-150.html


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## raleighnut (6 Jan 2016)

steve50 said:


> There is no such thing as an Alsation, the name alsation was introduced during the 1st world war when anything with the name "German" was frowned upon. German shepherds originated in a town on the German borders called Alsace, when war broke out it was decided the name German shepherd was not acceptable , so changed the name to Alsation. http://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-history-i-150.html


*German Shepherds*



The breeding program that created the German Shepherd included wolfdogs
Among the dogs used in the development of the German Shepherd, at least four were either wolfdogs or partly descended from wolfdogs. In 1899, Max von Stephanitz, an ex-cavalry captain and former student of the Berlin Veterinary College, was attending a dog show when he was shown a dog named Hektor Linksrhein, who was allegedly one-quarter wolf. Renamed Horand von Grafrath, the dog and his progeny were used to create the German Shepherd. Horand became the centre-point of the breeding programs and was bred with dogs belonging to other society members that displayed desirable traits. Although fathering many pups, Horand's most successful was Hektor von Schwaben.[16] Hektor was line bred with another of Horand's offspring and produced Beowulf, who later fathered a total of eighty-four pups, mostly through being line bred with Hektor's other offspring. In the original German Shepherd studbook, Zuchtbuch für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SZ), within the two pages of entries from SZ No. 41 to SZ No. 76, there are four wolf crosses.[17] This is the first documented use of pure wolf genes to create a domestic dog breed, the German Shepherd, which is historically thought to be the first documented intentionally-bred wolfdog.


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## snorri (6 Jan 2016)

Marmion said:


> If Cycle Chat was a real life situation


What has a bunch of painter and decorator types waiting for the kettle to boil have to do with CycleChat?


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## Gravity Aided (6 Jan 2016)

I don't know, but I've already had my pills this morning.


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## CopperCyclist (8 Jan 2016)

My view for what it's worth. 

Burglar deterrent - dog needs to be loud. Doesn't matter about being big. Yappy not so good. My springer is soft, looks soft, but sounds ferocious whenever anyone knocks the door, and would really scare most burglars off. I always tell people that a loud dog is the best burglar deterrent you can get. 

But you want one for walking the streets. Hmm. Is it really, really that bad by you? It's not a good reason to get a dog - dogs require time, effort, discipline, love - that's a LOT of work needed if you really only want to scare away undesirables, and the end result is likely to be you and the dog regretting your choice. 

If that's the ONLY reason, then I wouldn't advise a dog. 

If however, the main thing is you want a dog, and were willing to put all the work in that goes with it regardless... Then yes, the benefit of a (even a friendly, sociable) GSD is that it would make you less of a target for that <1% of people that MAY decide to target you at that precise moment. Robbers pick targets of opportunity. 

But please, please, please - if that's the main reason... Don't do it. Spend the money on a monthly membership to the gym, go daily, pump iron and get ripped. It'll be less work for you in the long run.


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## vickster (8 Jan 2016)

[QUOTE 4095024, member: 259"]We met a family of _seven_ two-month old Alsation pups being taken for their first walk in the woods recently and I could have bought all of them.

Anyone else remember when all pub landlords wore sheepskin jackets and had an Alsation called Prince?[/QUOTE]
My dad was a pub landlord, had an Alsatian called Rennie. It had to be sedated on fireworks, so terrified was he (this was before I was born, so in the early 70s maybe he had a sheepskin coat)


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## Andy_R (8 Jan 2016)

ok...Staffies....soft as newly laid cow pats...end of. We have a staffie cross who goes absolutely ballistic when the window cleaner comes round....not barking, but crying and yammering for attention. He actually uses his toys in the same motion that the window cleaner uses the squeegie in an attempt to mimic him. It's farkling hilaroius. He mugs the postie and robs him of treats too.


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## bancrobba (9 Jan 2016)

I am not a dog owner, due to the fact I don't have the time and resources to care for one properly.
I have to go into peoples houses as part of my job and have had some very hairy moments with their "wouldn't hurt a fly" dogs.
Anybody who uses a dog as some sort of shield or a weapon should be put in jail. 
If I wandered the streets of Liverpool brandishing a chainsaw for my own protection I don't think plod would let me get too far. Yet if I choose a couple of stone of dog, capable of killing, that's OK? 
My two youngest kids were knocked to the ground by a staffy, while its owners enjoyed a spliff on the grass in the park, but that's OK coz "he doesn't bite." He only had to bite once and I could have lost a child.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Jan 2016)

CopperCyclist said:


> My view for what it's worth.
> 
> Burglar deterrent - dog needs to be loud. Doesn't matter about being big. Yappy not so good. My springer is soft, looks soft, but sounds ferocious whenever anyone knocks the door, and would really scare most burglars off. I always tell people that a loud dog is the best burglar deterrent you can get.
> 
> ...




Mmm, do you think that being pumped up deters being attacked? I've seen "big lads" attacked by a group because the ones doing the attacking want to test themselves against formidable opposition. I was 14 stone with a 45 inch chest and pumped up biceps years ago. Granted it might've deterred some nutters but it also attracted them. Besides,i'm 55 years old, blind in one eye and metal plates in my face. I don't want to be having to fight off some idiot, that's why a dog seeing them off on my behalf appeals to me.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> I am not a dog owner, due to the fact I don't have the time and resources to care for one properly.
> I have to go into peoples houses as part of my job and have had some very hairy moments with their "wouldn't hurt a fly" dogs.
> Anybody who uses a dog as some sort of shield or a weapon should be put in jail.
> If I wandered the streets of Liverpool brandishing a chainsaw for my own protection I don't think plod would let me get too far. Yet if I choose a couple of stone of dog, capable of killing, that's OK?
> My two youngest kids were knocked to the ground by a staffy, while its owners enjoyed a spliff on the grass in the park, but that's OK coz "he doesn't bite." He only had to bite once and I could have lost a child.



"Anybody who uses a dog as some sort of shield or a weapon should be put in jail."



To use a dog as a weapon is wrong, but to use a dog as a shield to protect themselves. Does that make them a criminal?


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## swee'pea99 (9 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> Anybody who uses a dog as some sort of shield or a weapon should be put in jail.


There's a big difference. People using dogs to intimidate/threaten is totally indefensible, but people having dogs at least in part for protection can be entirely understandable, and certainly no reason for their incarceration.


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## swee'pea99 (9 Jan 2016)

Oops. TMN at 1 o' clock....


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## bancrobba (9 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> "Anybody who uses a dog as some sort of shield or a weapon should be put in jail."
> 
> 
> 
> To use a dog as a weapon is wrong, but to use a dog as a shield to protect themselves. Does that make them a criminal?


Not having a go at you. I just put the point that if you have a dog to protect you from attack, what happens if a couple of kids run up to you and the dog sees if as potentially threatening?
I'm not a dog hater, but hate a lot of dog owners who think having some snarling, dangerous animal intimidating people is OK.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> Not having a go at you. I just put the point that if you have a dog to protect you from attack, what happens if a couple of kids run up to you and the dog sees if as potentially threatening?
> I'm not a dog hater, but hate a lot of dog owners who think having some snarling, dangerous animal intimidating people is OK.




I think there's more chance of children running up to my 11 pound in weight Jack Russell/Shih Tzu than a scary German Shepherd.


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## irw (9 Jan 2016)

Marmion said:


> If Cycle Chat was a real life situation


Naaah...they can't be from Cycle Chat...none of them are wearing helmets!


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## vickster (9 Jan 2016)

If you and your family want a GSD and have the time and resources to walk, feed and care for a big dog, get one. A big responsibility though. do your research around the types of medical conditions they can suffer for example and get it insured which will probably be £50 a month on top of food, routine vet bills etc

Do you have a decent sized garden? Access to large areas for exercising etc. The needs are different to little pooch (my cat is way bigger )


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## CopperCyclist (9 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Mmm, do you think that being pumped up deters being attacked? .



I was more trying to hammer home that it would be less time and effort to turn yourself into the Hulk, than to get a dog toy don't really want. 

If you want a dog anyway, and want to put that effort in - do so. 

If you only want one for the deterrent, then don't. 

My advice in a nutshell.


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## SD1 (9 Jan 2016)

steve50 said:


> There is no such thing as an Alsation, the name alsation was introduced during the 1st world war when anything with the name "German" was frowned upon. German shepherds originated in a town on the German borders called Alsace, when war broke out it was decided the name German shepherd was not acceptable , so changed the name to Alsation. http://www.germanshepherdrescue.co.uk/german-shepherd-history-i-150.html


And people from Alsace got a hump on because they are called alsations. Alsace/Lorraine was German at the time? It changes hands depending on who wins the latest German French war.


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## SD1 (9 Jan 2016)

vickster said:


> get it insured which will probably be £50 a month on


Bollocks! You can get 5 dogs (if not more) insured for £50. What are you insuring it for? Vet call out for nettle stings? For period pains?


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## vickster (9 Jan 2016)

SD1 said:


> Bollocks! You can get 5 dogs (if not more) insured for £50. What are you insuring it for? Vet call out for nettle stings? For period pains?


My brothers dog has had both ACLs reconstructed. They pay that much monthly. Location (London) ups the cost too. Where are you based?


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## SD1 (9 Jan 2016)

He is paying that much because the dog has a long term medical condition. I have just insured my Springer for £8.90 a week.
If I had taken out a life time insurance I think it would have cost me £14 a month till she died....don't quote me on that.


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## vickster (9 Jan 2016)

SD1 said:


> He is paying that much because the dog has a long term medical condition. I have just insured my Springer for £8.90 a week.
> If I had taken out a life time insurance I think it would have cost me £14 a month till she died....don't quote me on that.


Where do you live though? Big dogs especially pure breed cost more

All I said was Accy needs to have the resources should they be required


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## SD1 (9 Jan 2016)

Lincolnshire. Why would it be more expensive in London? Not saying it isn't but why?


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## steve50 (10 Jan 2016)

User13710 said:


> You're making the assumption that all GSDs are assertive and protective. They're not necessarily and you might end up with a soft, good-natured one, which would be lovely of course but not much good for 'security'. Anyway, isn't what you're thinking of just the same as the mindset of those who acquire muscly staffies? I seem to remember you don't think much of them, in fact they might be the neighbours you're worrying about.



My dogs are super soft with us and the little ones but I really wouldn't want anyone uninvited in my home or threatening us, I know my dogs and how protective they can be.
My big vicious 7 stone German Shepherd,


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## raleighnut (10 Jan 2016)

steve50 said:


> My dogs are super soft with us and the little ones but I really wouldn't want anyone uninvited in my home or threatening us, I know my dogs and how protective they can be.
> My big vicious 7 stone German Shepherd,
> View attachment 115418


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## bancrobba (10 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> I think there's more chance of children running up to my 11 pound in weight Jack Russell/Shih Tzu than a scary German Shepherd.


Unfortunately my kids are now terrified of all dogs. My original reply was too harsh, sorry. Bit of a sore point at the moment, a couple of bad experiences with idiotic dog owners. 
Cracking looking dog!


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## Kajjal (10 Jan 2016)

Most dogs if socialised properly, well looked after and given limits are fine, each with their own little quirks. Most problems stem from the owners rather than the dogs.


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## steve50 (10 Jan 2016)

Kajjal said:


> Most dogs if socialised properly, well looked after and given limits are fine, each with their own little quirks.* Most problems stem from the owners rather than the dogs.*



Bang on the money there, we make our dogs what they are. With a pup you have a blank canvas, we then create the dog.


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## Renmurew (10 Jan 2016)

You need to consider both the "brains" and "brawn" elements that you're looking for........so really you need a German Shepherd and. Great Dane!


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## User19783 (10 Jan 2016)

I have a GSD X with a brindle Staffie, I believe, 
he's ten years old and I am the third or fourth owner,
He is great dog, but he has that Staffie whine, but a GSD bark.
His hind quarter s are in good shape, No problems, but I do keep his weight down to 30kg,
For a ten year old dog, he can still do a 15 mile walk, .


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## Mrs M (10 Jan 2016)

Looking forward to when we can acquire a wee canine companion.
Not just now as both out at work all day.
I love Staffies, sweet, loving and loyal wee dogs.
Can come with an undeserved, bad reputation because of some inadequate, superned, chav owners .
Mr M's opinion was changed when we got a Staffie to walk from the animal sanctuary in Lanzarote last year.
This wee guy was so happy and friendly and just loved Mr M who was sad to hand him back. 
We'll get a doggie one day, not too hung up on breed, just a wee one ho'll fit in and that the cat approves of!


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## raleighnut (10 Jan 2016)

User19783 said:


> I have a GSD X with a brindle Staffie, I believe,
> he's ten years old and I am the third or fourth owner,
> He is great dog, but he has that Staffie whine, but a GSD bark.
> His hind quarter s are in good shape, No problems, but I do keep his weight down to 30kg,
> ...


He's definitely got the ears of a GSD.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> Unfortunately my kids are now terrified of all dogs. My original reply was too harsh, sorry. Bit of a sore point at the moment, a couple of bad experiences with idiotic dog owners.
> Cracking looking dog!




Your reply didn't offend me, i know how you feel. I've had plenty of bad owner dangerous dog incidents myself!


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## Accy cyclist (11 Jan 2016)

Mrs M said:


> Looking forward to when we can acquire a wee canine companion.
> Not just now as both out at work all day.
> I love Staffies, sweet, loving and loyal wee dogs.
> Can come with an undeserved, bad reputation because of some inadequate, superned, chav owners .
> ...





I was talking to a couple the other month. They had a small dog they'd rescued from a bin bag in some Spanish holiday resort. The little dog seemed happy to be alive....thank's to them


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## Accy cyclist (16 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> Not having a go at you. I just put the point that if you have a dog to protect you from attack, what happens if a couple of kids run up to you and the dog sees if as potentially threatening?
> I'm not a dog hater, but hate a lot of dog owners who think having some snarling, dangerous animal intimidating people is OK.





Accy cyclist said:


> Your reply didn't offend me, i know how you feel. I've had plenty of bad owner dangerous dog incidents myself!



Low and behold i had one last night. There i was walking out a shop with my little dog under my arm when this bulldog type came running over, either wanting to be "friendly" or to try and get at my dog. The owner came out with the usual he's friendly stuff but it then started circling us. I kept on walking and the owner made a half - hearted attempt to put the thing on a lead, but it wasn't having it so i back heeled it.
That was it! She blew her top and started calling me cruel for "kicking her dog".
I tried to explain that her dog was out of control but she wasn't having it. I think the stupid chav was hoping i'd back down and succumb to her dog intimidation tactics.
She then approached me in a menacing way so i pushed her over with my walking pole and went on my way. I'd like to think i was right to defend myself against such lowlifes.


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## Deafie (16 Jan 2016)

If you don't understand dog behavior don't have a dog.


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## bancrobba (16 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Low and behold i had one last night. There i was walking out a shop with my little dog under my arm when this bulldog type came running over, either wanting to be "friendly" or to try and get at my dog. The owner came out with the usual he's friendly stuff but it then started circling us. I kept on walking and the owner made a half - hearted attempt to put the thing on a lead, but it wasn't having it so i back heeled it.
> That was it! She blew her top and started calling me cruel for "kicking her dog".
> I tried to explain that her dog was out of control but she wasn't having it. I think the stupid chav was hoping i'd back down and succumb to her dog intimidation tactics.
> She then approached me in a menacing way so i pushed her over with my walking pole and went on my way. I'd like to think i was right to defend myself against such lowlifes.


I was told this week that it was my fault a dog went for me at work. The reason? I was wearing hi-viz, the dog (obviously) always goes for people in hi-viz. Duh. That will be my mistake then. 

Its a waste of time trying to talk sense to certain dog owners.


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## stephec (16 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> I was told this week that it was my fault a dog went for me at work. The reason? I was wearing hi-viz, the dog (obviously) always goes for people in hi-viz. Duh. That will be my mistake then.
> 
> Its a waste of time trying to talk sense to certain dog owners.


Were you wearing a helmet as well?


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## bancrobba (16 Jan 2016)

stephec said:


> Were you wearing a helmet as well?


With 16 lights attached to it.


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## Accy cyclist (17 Jan 2016)

bancrobba said:


> I was told this week that it was my fault a dog went for me at work. The reason? I was wearing hi-viz, the dog (obviously) always goes for people in hi-viz. Duh. That will be my mistake then.
> 
> Its a waste of time trying to talk sense to certain dog owners.



The silly cow i pushed over must've thought "Tyson" would've pounced on me. Instead it just stood there doing nothing. I don't blame the dogs for being what they are ,or what the owners would like them to be. I just blame the owners for being the lowest of the low!


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## Arrowfoot (17 Jan 2016)

Dog owners who cannot control or handle their dogs are not dog lovers in my book. The blame for putting a dog down for an attack must sit with the owner and no one else. Why do we take it out on the dog. I know of dog owners who despite their best efforts find it difficult to control their dog and so have them on a leash. 

Dog owners also must realise that some folks have a genuine fear of dogs and will go into a state of near panic. Making statements such as "he won't bite" suggest poor understanding.


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## Accy cyclist (17 Jan 2016)

Arrowfoot said:


> Dog owners who cannot control or handle their dogs are not dog lovers in my book. The blame for putting a dog down for an attack must sit with the owner and no one else. Why do we take it out on the dog. I know of dog owners who despite their best efforts find it difficult to control their dog and so have them on a leash.
> 
> Dog owners also must realise that some folks have a genuine fear of dogs and will go into a state of near panic. Making statements such as "he won't bite" suggest poor understanding.



"He's only being friendly" doesn't wash! He might be friendly but a big dog jumping up at you can knock you off balance, mess your clothing and as you say cause fear to those who don't like or trust dogs. Usually when you wont accept their "he's only being friendly" and ask them to control the dog their attitude changes to one of "so you're calling me a liar are you"?! It's definitely a form of intimidation to have a dangerous looking dog off a lead. Would we accept idiots walking round with a knife or a baseball bat with nails in it?! No we wouldn't but we have to put up with an animal that can rip your arm open or kill your smaller dog! If i was to walk round with a metal bar to protect me and my little dog the police would pull me over, but i've lost count of the times i've seen them drive past some idiot with "Tyson" off a lead and folk giving the owner and the dog a wide berth as they fear for their safety!

I've just remembered! I did once see a copper giving a chav a long lecture about his dogs being off a lead. Unfortunately the following week the chav was walking his dogs off their leads again!


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## Mugshot (17 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Low and behold i had one last night. There i was walking out a shop with my little dog under my arm when this bulldog type came running over, either wanting to be "friendly" or to try and get at my dog. The owner came out with the usual he's friendly stuff but it then started circling us. I kept on walking and the owner made a half - hearted attempt to put the thing on a lead, but it wasn't having it so i back heeled it.
> That was it! She blew her top and started calling me cruel for "kicking her dog".
> I tried to explain that her dog was out of control but she wasn't having it. I think the stupid chav was hoping i'd back down and succumb to her dog intimidation tactics.
> She then approached me in a menacing way so i pushed her over with my walking pole and went on my way. I'd like to think i was right to defend myself against such lowlifes.


Are you sure that your neighbours aren't getting dogs to protect themselves from you?


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## London Female (17 Jan 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> "He's only being friendly" doesn't wash! He might be friendly but a big dog jumping up at you can knock you off balance, mess your clothing and as you say cause fear to those who don't like or trust dogs. Usually when you wont accept their "he's only being friendly" and ask them to control the dog their attitude changes to one of "so you're calling me a liar are you"?! It's definitely a form of intimidation to have a dangerous looking dog off a lead. Would we accept idiots walking round with a knife or a baseball bat with nails in it?! No we wouldn't but we have to put up with an animal that can rip your arm open or kill your smaller dog! If i was to walk round with a metal bar to protect me and my little dog the police would pull me over, but i've lost count of the times i've seen them drive past some idiot with "Tyson" off a lead and folk giving the owner and the dog a wide berth as they fear for their safety!
> 
> I've just remembered! I did once see a copper giving a chav a long lecture about his dogs being off a lead. Unfortunately the following week the chav was walking his dogs off their leads again!



But in your original post you didn't say the dog jumped up at you, knocked you off your balance, messed your clothes, ripped your arm off or killed your small dog!

Perhaps I have missed something but it does seem you were the only one who committed any kind of assault.


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## Levo-Lon (17 Jan 2016)

Sounds like its the night of the long knives..or should that be leads.. @Accy cyclist 
have fun


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## Cuchilo (17 Jan 2016)

I don't think you should get a German Shepherd .


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## Accy cyclist (17 Jan 2016)

User13710 said:


> Did you really do this? Isn't this the sort of anti-social behaviour you usually get on your high horse about? I seriously think you are very unwell, and need help.





Defending yourself isn't anti social behaviour!!


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## vickster (17 Jan 2016)

What were you actually defending yourself against when you kicked the dog and assaulted this,woman? If you were under threat, why didn't you go back into the shop and call the police?


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## midlife (17 Jan 2016)

Our dog is part of the family, shares the house, goes on holiday with us etc...........i don't think the dog thinks that she is a dog 

Shaun


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## Accy cyclist (17 Jan 2016)

vickster said:


> What were you actually defending yourself against when you kicked the dog and assaulted this,woman? If you were under threat, why didn't you go back into the shop and call the police?



You had to be there to understand the situation. Have you ever been in a similar situation?


Call the police..how naive of you!


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## Accy cyclist (17 Jan 2016)

London Female said:


> But in your original post you didn't say the dog jumped up at you, knocked you off your balance, messed your clothes, ripped your arm off or killed your small dog!
> 
> Perhaps I have missed something but it does seem you were the only one who committed any kind of assault.


 


Yes you have missed something!


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## Smurfy (18 Jan 2016)

At what point is it OK to defend yourself? Do you have to wait until you are bitten? If you don't want muddy paw prints on your clothes is gentle use of your foot OK?


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## PhilDawson8270 (18 Jan 2016)

Smurfy said:


> At what point is it OK to defend yourself? Do you have to wait until you are bitten? If you don't want muddy paw prints on your clothes is gentle use of your foot OK?



At what point is it ok to use excessive force, in a pre-emptive attack?


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## Kajjal (18 Jan 2016)

Strangely carrying a dog is very provocative to other dogs even ones that are well trained and don't normally jump up people. Even so the owner should quickly and decisively bring the dog under control. Kicking a dog is a very, very bad idea, even small dogs can cause alot of damage very quickly.


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## raleighnut (18 Jan 2016)

Kajjal said:


> Kicking a dog is a very, very bad idea, even small dogs can cause alot of damage very quickly.



That depends on how far you manage to kick em. 

FWIW My German Shepard Dog was often attacked by little dogs with the owners shouting " You should have that thing on a leash" whilst Sabor stood there quite placid. Larger dogs were never a problem for the lad, sometimes there'd be a bit of 'banter' between them but never anything serious and a couple of 'stop' words (Sabor's was Oi COME HEEEERE) always stopped any damage.
The thing is with GSD's is that they don't need a lot of 'exercise' but they do need 'companionship' and attention, if left alone for long periods they quickly get bored and can be quite destructive (shoes, carpets and doors being favourites) as they are a Wolf hybrid they are very social animals and detest isolation, they also have a trait that tells them not to attack smaller 'pack' members making them an ideal family dog ( with the right owner who understands their nature and their needs)


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