# Brompton Paint Issue?



## Justinitus (31 Mar 2021)

Hi all, we collected a new 2021 Brompton M6R Black Edition a couple of weeks ago. Was in the garage earlier and noticed something on the floor - it’s some of the paint! It’s come off the rear of the seatpost clamp - in fact it looks like some more is about to come off! Bike has been ridden 3 times, about 15miles max. Surely this isn’t normal? Before I ring the dealer, I thought I’d ask the Brommie owners on here for your thoughts.


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## ianrauk (31 Mar 2021)

That wouldn't bother me but if it bothers you then contact the dealer to see what they say.


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## Tenkaykev (31 Mar 2021)

No that’s not normal and I’d definitely contact the dealer if only to put on record that there’s an issue with the paint finish on your bike. I appreciate that Brompton are working flat out to meet demand so perhaps some parts of the manufacturing process have been speeded up a little to help throughput.
Heres my Orange Brommie which is a 2015 model ( excuse Henry the Hoover who also lives under the stairs )


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## Cycleops (31 Mar 2021)

That's unacceptable, take it back. I'd be asking for a replacement. The entire bike frame could be affected.


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## roley poley (31 Mar 2021)

my advice is before you ring your dealer give it a very good look over as you may find other bits you need to point out now rather than discover later


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## Justinitus (31 Mar 2021)

Thanks all, obviously not normal on a new Brommie so will give it a full look over tomorrow and give the shop a ring.


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## ExBromptonMan (1 Apr 2021)

Very best of luck. I have never had a problem with the three I have owned. 
If it was a part which could scrape on the ground if folded, they might say it was misuse BUT I cannot see how that part could scrape on the ground.
If you have had it less than 28 or 30 days, I think you could reject it if you really wanted (Then wait two or three months for a replacement!).
I did reject one of my early electric Brompton and got a refund no problems.


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## rogerzilla (5 Apr 2021)

Their paint has often been appalling. Mine needed a full respray after a year, and it hadn't even been out in the rain. The original powdercoat just flaked off.

Reject it now, as they will not entertain paint claims for long.


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## Justinitus (5 Apr 2021)

Dealer (used them several times for different bikes, always very good) emailed back to say they’ve sent a warranty claim in for a new frame and are waiting Brompton‘s response. I’ll give them a ring and have a chat - to be honest, some touch up paint and a guarantee that if more paint comes off in in the same way in the future then they swap the frame then, or exchange the complete bike for a new one now. I’ll update once we’ve agreed a way forward. Cheers all


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## berlinonaut (5 Apr 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Their paint has often been appalling.


How exactly do you define "often" and on which foundation? Apart from issues with early raw-laquer models I've not been aware of any relevant amount of issues with the powder coat on Bromtons. After the change from glossy to mate in 2009 the coating has become less robust and after switching the coating from the company in Wales that had done it from the start to inhouse with the new factory they had a couple of minor issues in the beninnig sometimes. That's all I am aware of.


rogerzilla said:


> Mine needed a full respray after a year, and it hadn't even been out in the rain. The original powdercoat just flaked off.


So good that there's a five year warranty on the frame... Apart from that I am really wondering as according to your posts in various threads you've had the worst and nightmarish issues with your Brommi that strangely enough no one else seems to suffer from, let alone to that extend, if you maybe are the Brompton equivalent of the lorry driver in the Douglas Adams novel that suffers from having to drive in the rain where ever he goes, not knowing that he is a rain god...


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## rogerzilla (5 Apr 2021)

Transferring all the parts to a new frame is a long job for someone!


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## tourdescotland (20 Oct 2021)

I just received my Brompton.. damage under where the front wheel hooks on and also a smaller issue on the steering post.. I emailed back.. is this normal damage around the hook on part?


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## 12boy (23 Oct 2021)

I have a lotta years and many miles (10k) on my Brompton and I have had chips and dings but nothing like the OP. Totally bogus, dude.


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## iluvmybike (24 Oct 2021)

tourdescotland said:


> I just received my Brompton.. damage under where the front wheel hooks on and also a smaller issue on the steering post.. I emailed back.. is this normal damage around the hook on part?


Not acceptable on a new bike


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## rogerzilla (24 Oct 2021)

Paint on older ones (up to mid-2000s) can be really good. It gets scuffed but doesn't flake. Flaking on powdercoat is always a manufacturing defect - poor adhesion, either due to rusty metal, contamination by grease, or lack of primer. Reject the bike as it will look like a dog's dinner in a year's time. My 2008 bike needed a respray after a year and it *never went out in the wet*.


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## Cycleops (24 Oct 2021)

Be interesting to learn from @Justinitus how the matter was resolved.


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## Justinitus (24 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Be interesting to learn from @Justinitus how the matter was resolved.


Hi Cycleops. Well, a new frame arrived at the dealer back in June and they swapped all the parts over. Sadly on their test ride the paint came off in exactly the same place - worse actually! So they had to swap all the parts back onto the original frame (Bromptons request) and ordered up yet another replacement frame - which they‘re still waiting for.

I’ve also been waiting since late August for a replacement folding pedal - Brompton have them in stock online (or did) but apparently not available for dealers. It’s on back order.

I actually bought a 2 speed as well earlier in the summer from a different shop (about the same time @Fab Foodie did) but on delivery it had 3 areas of paint damage all the way down to bare metal (one bigger than 50p piece) plus significant play in the handlepost hinge. I just returned the bike for refund.


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## Cycleops (24 Oct 2021)

Brompton have really dropped the ball on their paint finish. Seems like they have changed something to save a few bob and it's ending up costing them dear. Things like this severely dent a makers reputation.
Advice would be for anyone contemplating buying to steer clear until they have sorted out the issue.
At least Justinitus can be assured they'll do the right thing but sounds like that might take some time and he won't get any recompense for the time he hasn't had use of the bike.


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## rogerzilla (24 Oct 2021)

You can put a new bearing in a folding pedal with a bit of filing and some strong bearing retainer compound. Even if it fails soon, it's a cheap fix - but IME a half decent SKF bearing will last longer than the original unbranded bearing.


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## Justinitus (24 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Brompton have really dropped the ball on their paint finish. Seems like they have changed something to save a few bob and it's ending up costing them dear. Things like this severely dent a makers reputation.
> Advice would be for anyone contemplating buying to steer clear until they have sorted out the issue.
> At least Justinitus can be assured they'll do the right thing but sounds like that might take some time and he won't get any recompense for the time he hasn't had use of the bike.


We’ve been using the bike throughout, so not been without it. Several more bits of paint have come off since - the area pictured in my first post is now all bare metal.


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## berlinonaut (28 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Brompton have really dropped the ball on their paint finish. Seems like they have changed something to save a few bob and it's ending up costing them dear. Things like this severely dent a makers reputation.


Always interesting to read what conclusions people are confindently drawing from nonexistent information...  I's assume that there are two to three possibilities which may be a single or combined root cause:
1. Brompton have scaled their production to almost twice as much than before within roughly a year. This has often the effect that quality goes down temporarily due to the higher volume and stress in combination with an underestmated relevance of qa.
2. For that scaling process Brompton needed a huge lot of new workers. To gain qualified workers in that amount in a short timeframe is demanding, to fully integrate and onboard them to the existing quality level is typically close to impossible. Which has consequences for the quality of the output.
3. I may be possible that they have changed something around the powder coating process technically, either innovation wise or there may exist new laws regarding processes or materials - don't know. Any change in processes and materials inherits the danger of quality issues. If the did such a change it _may_ have been motivated by efficiency and cost, but not necessarily.

Thus I would say the statement "they have changed something to save a few bob" is not adequate if you do not have internal knowledge that we others lack. What's for sure is that there are currently changing times at Brompton in many areas and aspects and there are hickups and negative effects visible all over the place. They seem to be massively challenged, if it is just the effect of massive scaling or also a cultural and attitude change regarding more effiency and more revenue (in ignorance of quality and customers) is at least to me unclear.


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## berlinonaut (28 Oct 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> You can put a new bearing in a folding pedal with a bit of filing and some strong bearing retainer compound. Even if it fails soon, it's a cheap fix - but IME a half decent SKF bearing will last longer than the original unbranded bearing.


As I currently do have a folding pedal lying around that is eol: Do you have a link to fitting bearing or a type number?


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## Cycleops (28 Oct 2021)

I don’t know if @berlinonaut has ever worked in a manufacturing industry, I suspect not, but if he had he would know that cost saving measures and changes in processes are implemented all the time. Some work some don’t. Some end up saving costs, others end up costing the company money to rectify their mistakes. This is usually driven by the ‘bean counters’.
Of course I don’t have inside knowledge of what might have happened to affect the paint at Brompton but you can bet that after having no problem for years in this area and then suddenly there’s an issue you can bet something had changed, whether that be in the paint itself or the way it’s applied or who applies it or maybe all three.
I used to work for a manufacturer who changed cotton in their product to polypropylene because it would save them money even though it was a tiny part of the finished product. I won’t go into technical details but it was a disaster as polypropylene doesn’t stretch as much as cotton, leading to have to replace goods.
I’m sure in time the reason Brompton are having issues with paint will be revealed so until then we can only surmise but cost is a fairly good bet.


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## berlinonaut (28 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> I don’t know if @berlinonaut has ever worked in a manufacturing industry, I suspect not,


Wrong suspicion.



Cycleops said:


> but if he had he would know that cost saving measures and changes in processes are implemented all the time. Some work some don’t. Some end up saving costs, others end up costing the company money to rectify their mistakes. This is usually driven by the ‘bean counters’.


Platitudes and generalisations may be generally true but not necessarily for a specific case.


Cycleops said:


> Of course I don’t have inside knowledge of what might have happened to affect the paint at Brompton but you can bet that after having no problem for years in this area and then suddenly there’s an issue you can bet something had changed, whether that be in the paint itself or the way it’s applied or who applies it or maybe all three.


Confusing outcome with the root cause does not help. We do know the outcome and we do know the the outcome would not have changed if not something within the process would have changed. Surprise. But we do not know what exactly has changed, that's my whole point. Due to the obvious scaling of production we can be pretty sure that "who applies it" holds true as a point of change and we can be pretty sure that "the process of painting" will have changed in one way or another as well (but we have absolutely no information in what way). The rest is pure speculation. For one there is a difference between coincidence and correlation and second it is a tough bet to conclude from a given outcome alone directly and precisely back to the motivation and to claim to know it. Not possible seriously in my opinion and if you still do it a clear overrating of own cleverness.


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## rogerzilla (1 Nov 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> As I currently do have a folding pedal lying around that is eol: Do you have a link to fitting bearing or a type number?


Yes, it's a 62032RS. The existing bearing is retained by a lip which was peened over after the bearing was fitted. This can be filed off or carefully opened back up.

The old bearing is then drifted out using a large socket (as it's going in the bin, it doesn't matter if the removal force goes through the bearing).

Clean up the recess in the pedal, apply strong bearing retaining compound and press in the new bearing (I used a large vice, and force must be applied to the outer race or the whole bearing, not just the inner race). After curing, this should hold it sufficiently, especially as it is a tight interference fit. If you chose to open up the lip rather than file it off, that is now hammered back into shape to retain the bearing as extra insurance.


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## berlinonaut (1 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Yes, it's a 62032RS.


At less than 2€ to under 4€ for the bearing that's definitively worth a try! Thanks for the info  - another project on the list for the upcoming winter months...  Also good to know that I could rise my cadence more or less unlimted - according to SKF the bearing is specified for up to 12000 rpm.


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## bonzobanana (1 Nov 2021)

Very disappointing to hear of a reduction in quality at Brompton. I don't remember these issues when they had all frames and forks sent to Wales for painting so assume this situation has been caused by bringing painting in-house but not to the same standards as done in Wales. I would say they need to review their procedures for painting.

This is actually a common situation of sorts as when production of bikes moved out of Taiwan into mainland China paint was often worse, over the years it improved then when production moved out of mainland China to countries like Vietnam and Cambodia again people would complain about their paint chipping off.

I know fuji-ta have a great paint adhering process and that is by phosphate dipping their frames both steel and aluminium I think. It gives it a galvanishing/zinc plating finish which helps paint adhere very well as well as protecting the interior of the frame from corrosion. They do this on super cheap steel robot made frames that about 3 years ago they sold at $4-5 each so cannot be an expensive process although of course fuji-ta are the world's largest bicycle manufacturer by volume so they have huge benefits of scale. 

The worst thing to do is not store frames and forks correctly before painting as I believe corrosion may start even if not visually seen where surface particles are starting to loosen and corrode and of course painting those means the paint will just chip off easily. Surface preparation is critical to painting. I used to be a paint sprayer for military and commerical aviation parts and surface preparation was where I spent most of my time.

The longer Brompton allows this to go on the more damage this will do to the brand. Every dealer and customer should pressurise them to improve this and rejection of poorly painted frames in the long term will benefit the brand. There is absolutely no reason in 2021 you can't have a steel frame with a fantastic quality long lasting paint finish and at Brompton pricing you should expect a premium paint finish.


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## rogerzilla (1 Nov 2021)

They did have issues when painting was done in Wales - my 2008 bike would have been. What I don't understand is why some bikes - the ones with good paint - have a black undercoat and other - the flaky ones - don't. Someone is cutting corners somewhere. It's not just Brompton: Moultons, at least the affordable ones made in Stratford-upon-Avon, are powdercoated, and it can be woeful. My TSR could really do with a respray.


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## berlinonaut (1 Nov 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> Very disappointing to hear of a reduction in quality at Brompton. I don't remember these issues when they had all frames and forks sent to Wales for painting so assume this situation has been caused by bringing painting in-house but not to the same standards as done in Wales. I would say they need to review their procedures for painting.
> (...)
> The longer Brompton allows this to go on the more damage this will do to the brand. Every dealer and customer should pressurise them to improve this and rejection of poorly painted frames in the long term will benefit the brand. There is absolutely no reason in 2021 you can't have a steel frame with a fantastic quality long lasting paint finish and at Brompton pricing you should expect a premium paint finish.


Oh, dear! Once more there seems to be a total confusion regarding cause and correlation as well as a total misinterpretation of failure numbers plus a ignorance in terms of things where we lack information.
First: The move to the new factory was in January 2016, the change of the paining from Wales to in house was shortly thereafter. More than five years later we see a small number of issues on the paint of new Bromptons. Two cases to be exact, one of them looks like a massively gone wrong paintjob, even on the replacement frame, the other more like a mechanical issue in treatment of the bike. Since moving the painting roughly 350.000 Bromptons have been produced. Basically two paint jobs, that made it to the customer did go wrong that we know about. 

This is neither a high failure rate nor can I see any correlation between moving the painting in house and painting issues.

Regarding the paining in Wales: We do not know anything about failure rates back then though there is some knowledge that issues existed. What is obvious that this off-site painting created much overhead and a massive logistics issue. I bet that limitiation in colors (initioally only black or red main frame, extremities always black) had also to do with easening up the complexity in terms of logistics and failure handling.
We know, that with the change from gloss to mate at the beginning of 2009 the paint got way less robust and that there were issues in the beginning. We know, that Brompton had to stop the raw laquer models, that were invented in 2005, for a couple of years beween ~2008 and ~2012 because of quality issues. 

We do know that at least two frames with quality issues in painting made it to the customer. We do not know what the usual failure rate is with powder coating in general (apart from Brompton), we do not know what Brompton's q/a-processes look like and we have absolutely no idea how their failure rate is (how many frames get refused by q/a) now, how it was at "Wales-times" and how it evolved. We do not know if the case of the turkish green bike could have been spotted already in the factory.
We do know that Brompton accepts the issues and does replace the frame. We do know, that the number of special editions and freaky colors rised massively since the move of the painting in house: Flame laquer, bolt blue, black laquer, stardust and other colors simply did not exist in earlier years. The small batches of special paint jobs for special editions are probably easier to handle in house as well. In other words: Paining in house brought more flexibility, less complexity, less logistic issues, less overhead and probably lower cost. If the company in Wales would be able to handle the current production volumina of 100.000+ bikes per year at all is an open question, too.

So while there are issues I am a bit baffled by the conclusions you draw from very limited information in ignorance of a lot of other factors and contraints.


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## berlinonaut (1 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Moultons, at least the affordable ones made in Stratford-upon-Avon, are powdercoated, and it can be woeful. My TSR could really do with a respray.


The paint job on Moultons is shameful at best, at least from my experience. I do own two TSRs and a Bridgestone Moulton. The older one of the TSRs (a very early one in light blue) is okish but not brilliant whereas the the newer one (racing green one from around maybe 2010) gets paint chips already when just look at it sharply. I know a lot of Moulton owners who suffer from similar paint issues with their bikes - the quality of the paint job is just shameful, at least on the Pashley ones. My Bridgestone Moulton is the same, despite being produced in Japan instead of at Pashley or Moulton themselves.


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## bonzobanana (1 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> They did have issues when painting was done in Wales - my 2008 bike would have been. What I don't understand is why some bikes - the ones with good paint - have a black undercoat and other - the flaky ones - don't. Someone is cutting corners somewhere. It's not just Brompton: Moultons, at least the affordable ones made in Stratford-upon-Avon, are powdercoated, and it can be woeful. My TSR could really do with a respray.



I've watched a few factory videos for bikes and I could be wrong but I rarely see an undercoat used although not sure about this but when you paint a frame at home you'd pretty much always undercoat the frame before putting a top coat on and then lacquering that. Actually looking at the fuji-ta painting process in their video there are a lot of stages of painting and to be quite honest its looks extremely high quality painting. Fuji-ta make a huge number of brands at different times for varying priced models. Specialized, Bianci, Cannondale, Carrera, Btwin, Muddyfox, Raleigh and many others. There are literally 100s maybe 1000s of brands they have made for. I think one year they were close to 20 million bikes made a significant chunk of world bike production. It seems to be aluminium frames they most dominate in, in western markets. Even when bike brands have assembly planets in Europe etc often the frames and forks come from fuji-ta. Dorel have used them extensively in the past as has Accell the two giant bike importers. Many people reading this will have a fuji-ta bike without actually knowing it if they own a few bikes and have bikes from the big factory-less brands. I personally don't think they quite match Giant or Merida frame and fork quality but are very decent.

I think my Muddyfox Race 200 bike is fuji-ta as I think it was even mentioned on the box and the paint finish on that relatively cheap bike is superb. Dare I say it but some of the Brompton clones that aren't sold in the UK or Europe may be coming out of the fuji-ta factory so likely to have a better paint finish even if the bikes themselves are often compromised a bit with more flexy frames and lower weight ratings.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8fihx4iUlI


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## berlinonaut (1 Nov 2021)

bonzobanana said:


> I've watched a few factory videos for bikes and I could be wrong but I rarely see an undercoat used although not sure about this but when you paint a frame at home you'd pretty much always undercoat the frame before putting a top coat on and then lacquering that.


Are you sure that you are not mixing up traditional laquering with power coating as i.e. Brompton does it? As far as I'm informed with power coating the usual way on metal is (after cleaning and maybe blasting) to have a chemical preparation, today on untreated metal normally phosphating. That's exactly what Brompton does and has done for ages as far as I know. On top of the phosphating comes the powder that then get's burned in in a heat chamber. Powder coating has evolved massively over the last 30 years and today there's probably more than one way to Rome. Also the brands that you are mentioning mainly do aluminum frames - the technique used, common or necessary for powder coating here may in some details differ from the one used on steel.


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## Justinitus (1 Nov 2021)

An update from me. I’m told that my 2nd replacement frame will be at the shop in 2-3 weeks so when it arrives I’ll get it booked in and report back. Replacement folding pedal is still 6-8 weeks away - despite Brompton showing stock! I’m just glad the bike is still usable otherwise I’d be having a hissy fit!

As a side note, my 2021 rocket red S6 Black Edition (bought a month or so afterwards) still has perfect factory paint and has been ridden a lot more than the Turkish Green one.


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## bonzobanana (1 Nov 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> Are you sure that you are not mixing up traditional laquering with power coating as i.e. Brompton does it? As far as I'm informed with power coating the usual way on metal is (after cleaning and maybe blasting) to have a chemical preparation, today on untreated metal normally phosphating. That's exactly what Brompton does and has done for ages as far as I know. On top of the phosphating comes the powder that then get's burned in in a heat chamber. Powder coating has evolved massively over the last 30 years and today there's probably more than one way to Rome. Also the brands that you are mentioning mainly do aluminum frames - the technique used, common or necessary for powder coating here may in some details differ from the one used on steel.



Isn't fuji-ta powder coating in that video? I must admit I assumed Brompton weren't phosphate dipping because of the poor adhesion of their paint on recent bikes but maybe its just being done badly or there is a storage issue before painting. I think fuji-ta are chemically dipping both steel and aluminium to clean but thinking about it the prep would have to be different between the materials for painting. My point is they are doing a very good job painting steel frames as you can see by their facilities even though their steel frames are very low cost. No excuses for Brompton to not equal or even better them considering their pricing. I've seen some bikes from more basic factories in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and those steel bikes can corrode quite quickly and the paint is easily chipped off.


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## steveindenmark (2 Nov 2021)

I have bikes going back to the 70s. All with reasonable paintwork.

My Brompton 9 Streets paintwork is shoddy, even though the bike is well looked after. I like the bike and it is great for what it was made for. But the bike on the whole is shoddy and Brompton seem to have no desire to sort the problems out. The gears on Bromptons are forever being mentioned in forums, they are a major problem. Brompton are aware of this and will not address it. 

They are forever banging out what they believe are different models. Every model appears to be a "Special". But trying to tell Brompton that a different colour on the same bike does not make it special. their R&D department seems to consist of a colour chart and thats it.

Instead of taking a little time to sort out the basic problems with the bikes. They spend time flogging extortionatley prices bags and jackets. As a Brompton fan it is quite frustrating.

If I were going down the Brompton route again. I would buy the cheapest model possible and have it sand blasted and resprayed. I would then send it to Kevin at Kinetics in Scotland and tell him what I wanted. Kinetics is what the Brompton R&D dept should be.

But as a niche market bike, it is not in the same class as Koga, for example. But it should be and getting it there would be pretty easy as there are so many people who have a passion for Brompton. It lives on its reputation of being iconic.

When the bike is working correctly, I love it. But it goes wrong far too easily.


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## rogerzilla (2 Nov 2021)

The black undercoat could be the phosphating dip?

What's the problem with Brompton gears? I know the new derailleur cable arrangement is a bit Heath Robinson and may stick more than the old type, but the hub gears generally work. I don't personally like the Sturmey-Archer NIG design as it's overcomplicated and more prone to rattles, but the market demanded a hub that could never slip between 2 and 3.


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## Tenkaykev (2 Nov 2021)

steveindenmark said:


> I have bikes going back to the 70s. All with reasonable paintwork.
> 
> My Brompton 9 Streets paintwork is shoddy, even though the bike is well looked after. I like the bike and it is great for what it was made for. But the bike on the whole is shoddy and Brompton seem to have no desire to sort the problems out. The gears on Bromptons are forever being mentioned in forums, they are a major problem. Brompton are aware of this and will not address it.
> 
> ...


I’ve only ever had one issue, and that was when I’d been practicing removing and refitting the rear wheel. I’d connected up the hub gear connection then gone to bed without setting it up correctly and forgot about it the following morning. I had trouble changing out of second gear but the penny soon dropped.
I fitted a 11 speed chain to my C3, and despite being warned that it wouldn’t work, the derailleur changes smoothly.


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## CaptainWheezy (2 Nov 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> What's the problem with Brompton gears?


The new style plastic shifters become "sticky" and won't change gear without dismantling them and filing away some of the plastic to free up the mechanism. This is a problem that has been reported now for at least a few years (there's video's on YouTube showing how to fix the issue) and has not been addressed by Brompton at all. I have a Black lacquer black edition S6L that I bought new a few years ago from Evans in Sheffield (2018 I think) that suffered with the problem (fixed myself), and also a Superlight S6L purchased from the Brompton website this year that also had the exact same issue (again, fixed myself). Brompton probably are being so tight they don't want to spend the money on a revised injection mould to fix the problem once and for all and instead rely on the dealer network so sort out their design failings (see also the many people having repeated problems with the Brompton Electric on the Facebook groups, having to take the bike back to the dealers to replace batteries, controllers and motors).


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## Justinitus (9 Jan 2022)

Another update, the dealer has now received the 2nd replacement frame and the replacement folding pedal from Brompton and the bike is booked in for 26th Jan. Fingers crossed this time!


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## CEBEP (10 Jan 2022)

Good luck @Justinitus

I see this discussion took some time ago and had valid points. 

Some fault ratio is acceptable in almost all productions, that's what helps bring production costs down and make them acceptable. Every manufacturer tries to find the best balance between production costs and fault ratio. The impact to brand/producer's reputation is a whole other story and will differ greatly based on what the product is and most importantly how producers handles the fault (quality claims). 
Simple example could be wrist watches. If you buy a $5 watch off a Chinese brand and it stops working after 6 months, chances are you will not try to contact Chinese watch manufacturer but throw it away and buy a new one. Minimal to no damage to Chinese brand reputation. 

You buy a Rolex, it stops working after 6 months, you bring it to the dealer and they say they'll fix it in 6 months because they will wait for some part which is not yet in stock, or even worst will tell you that it's your fault and it's out of warranty? You will definitely want the world to know about it and your stories in the internet communities will definitely make an impact on the brand's reputation. 

Users don't care why Brompton paint have issues, they don't care what type of coating they use or if they doubled production or what not. For user it's not important how many cases of paint issues Brompton had, could be one in a million. 

Paying what they pay for Bromptons, users will rightfully expect paint job on their bikes to be excellent, and if something goes wrong they would expect it to be fixed quick. If there were only two isolated paint cases then damage to the brand reputation or it's lack will be determined by how Brompton will handle these two cases to ensure customer satisfaction.


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## Justinitus (27 Jan 2022)

Today - a full 10 months to the day - and armed with a pocketful of party poppers to celebrate, I ventured to the dealer and collected the Brompton. Frame has been swapped (the 3rd one if you’ve been following the thread!) and the faulty folding pedal replaced with a shiny new one. So all looking good again!


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## CEBEP (27 Jan 2022)

Congrats, happy you could sort things out!


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## Ghanabike (14 Dec 2022)

Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below


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## Tenkaykev (15 Dec 2022)

Ghanabike said:


> Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below



All I can suggest is to take a few more photos from different angles and close ups, and get in touch with Brompton direct. ( They have an online chat facility which I’ve found very responsive) 
Forward the photos and take it from there.
Brompton have been increasing production a lot, and brought a lot of previously outsourced operations in house, perhaps they’re having problems with processes. Nevertheless they should welcome the feedback. 
Do let us know how you get on.


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## Cycleops (15 Dec 2022)

Ghanabike said:


> Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below


I should send your complaint to Mr Will Double Barrel the CEO giving full details and pics.


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## rogerzilla (15 Dec 2022)

Is it scratched? Poor paint on Bromptons normally manifests itself as flaking around sharp edges (e.g. the clamps and dropouts) or bubbling.


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## tinywheels (16 Dec 2022)

personally I like a battered Brompton


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## Ghanabike (16 Dec 2022)

Tenkaykev said:


> All I can suggest is to take a few more photos from different angles and close ups, and get in touch with Brompton direct. ( They have an online chat facility which I’ve found very responsive)
> Forward the photos and take it from there.
> Brompton have been increasing production a lot, and brought a lot of previously outsourced operations in house, perhaps they’re having problems with processes. Nevertheless they should welcome the feedback.
> Do let us know how you get on.



Brilliant! thank you very much for reply and feedback. Much appreciated


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## berlinonaut (16 Dec 2022)

Ghanabike said:


> Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below



It is a bit of an unusual area for paint to flake off w/o reason. Not saying it could not be possible but the typical reason for paint issues like that in this area is when the folded bike lies flat on the stem (i.e. in a car boot) and is moving around while the car is driving. So at least understandable that the dealer has questions.
On the other hand: Hopefully normally no one would lie the bike on the stem side, but typically paint flakes off at edges or sharp corners, not in the middle of a homogenic area. When thinking about how powder coat is applied it seems indeed a little strange that it flakes off in this area. However: W/o better pictures nobody can decide wether these are the outcome of scratches or a failure in painting.


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## Ghanabike (16 Dec 2022)

Thank you for your response. I am completely baffled as to how it has happened. I did notice the paint peeling a few days after purchase and automatically thought I had accidentally damaged the bike. However not long after I noticed that more of the paint was peeling further down the stem. I am waiting to hear from customer services. We'll see what happens fingers crossed


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## Ghanabike (16 Dec 2022)

tinywheels said:


> personally I like a battered Brompton



Hi tinywheels, I see your point but I just worry about rust in future 🙂


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