# RLJ in the countryside



## DCBassman (10 May 2018)

Driving from Tavistock to Brentor on the Lydford road. Set of temporary lights covering a distance of about 50m.

Red for us, cyclist in front, slowed down to give him plenty of space to stop.

Just carried on. 

Just as well he could not hear what my wife said...


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## Milkfloat (10 May 2018)

Did the world end? I hope not.


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## DCBassman (10 May 2018)

No, The world did not end. But they are not there to be ignored. Just more ammo for the cyclist haters.


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## snorri (10 May 2018)

I hope your wife made a rude gesture to him when you eventually overtook this scoundrel.


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## Drago (10 May 2018)

And to think people though Mussolini was a bad 'un.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (10 May 2018)

Hope you beeped him and stared in your rear view mirror on passing


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## DCBassman (10 May 2018)

He turned off before we caught up...


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## Ianboydsnr (10 May 2018)

On the roads I use, which have had a lot of temporary traffic lights, they don’t seem to want to trigger for cyclists, it’s not too bad if your on the downhill side, waiting until a bigger vehicle sets the lights off, but uphill can mean a long line of slow traffic as you climb the slow hill, so at times I admit to getting off and pushing the bike up the pavement, or even the other sides of the cones, car drivers don’t seem to mind that, I wouldn’t ride through a red though.


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## oldwheels (10 May 2018)

Temporary lights are a pain. They are not set for cyclists so even if you start on green you often end up meeting oncoming traffic because they have changed while you are in transit. If there is room I usually ignore them as I am dammned if I do and also if I don’t. Even permanent ones like Connel Bridge near Oban will often have a cyclist starting on green meeting traffic legitimately starting on green in the opposite direction and it is a narrow bridge. Most local traffic is pretty tolerant but I just use the narrow pavement after checking that nobody is coming towards me. Nobody here at least seems to get uptight about the use of common sense as opposed to rules and regulations.


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## snorri (10 May 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Just more ammo for the cyclist haters.


Cyclists only have to breathe to incur the wrath of the cycle haters who would not be swayed in their irrational views even if all cyclists behaved impeccably on the roads.


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## smutchin (10 May 2018)

Second thread this week about why it's OK to hate cyclists. I'm going to have to break my policy of not putting people on ignore if this trend continues.


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## DCBassman (10 May 2018)

Fair point about cyclists not triggering the damned things properly. I've not personally ridden through many - on green - to notice a problem, but thinking about it, they expect to see a larger mass than a cyclist...


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## Randomnerd (10 May 2018)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoqm9j_5wU


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## Lonestar (10 May 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Driving from Tavistock to Brentor on the Lydford road. Set of temporary lights covering a distance of about 50m.
> 
> Red for us, cyclist in front, slowed down to give him plenty of space to stop.
> 
> ...



Should have shouted out the window..."pay road tax you barsteward" while blasting your horn....usually works.

Either that or "Get off and milk it."

Got a set of light's which aren't temporary but usually take their time to change on detection but I survive without jumping them.


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## Drago (10 May 2018)

smutchin said:


> Second thread this week about why it's OK to hate cyclists. I'm going to have to break my policy of not putting people on ignore if this trend continues.



You still ignoring me, Smutchers?


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## smutchin (10 May 2018)

Drago said:


> You still ignoring me, Smutchers?



Dunno. Who are you?


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## Welsh wheels (10 May 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Driving from Tavistock to Brentor on the Lydford road. Set of temporary lights covering a distance of about 50m.
> 
> Red for us, cyclist in front, slowed down to give him plenty of space to stop.
> 
> ...


Red lights should always be obeyed. Mind you, you have to put the hammer down to get through those on a bike before oncoming traffic starts coming.


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## winjim (10 May 2018)

Today I saw a car driver jump a red light.


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## Will Spin (10 May 2018)

I often jump red lights at temporary road works (I know, I'm a scoundrel). Several times I've been in a position when I've waited for the lights and found myself holding up a large line of traffic while I go through the roadworks, and on at least one occasion whilst grinding up hill the lights the other end have changed before I've got through.


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## Drago (10 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Today I saw a car driver jump a red light.



And the cow jumped over the moon!


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## snorri (10 May 2018)

User said:


> Goodness





User said:


> Goodness



 Get off the fence man,


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## Ming the Merciless (10 May 2018)

In a world without cars, there would be no need for traffic lights.


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## raleighnut (10 May 2018)

DCBassman said:


> He turned off before we caught up...


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Today I saw a car driver jump a red light.




....and he wasn't even in his car.<Boom Tish>


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## Globalti (11 May 2018)

Most temporary lights are controlled by PIR detectors on top of the lights so if they don't seem to sense you, a hand waved in front of the detector will set them off.


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## Venod (11 May 2018)

I ride through red lights at roadworks on occasions, if you can see the other set and there is on one waiting and nothing approaching its rude not to, if I can't see the other end I wait, but if there is pedestrian access (and no pedestrians) or nothing inside the cones I will ride, I also ride on pavements if it is safe to do so without affecting pedestrians, its all about common sense and staying safe.

At pelican crossings a pedestrian will cross and the lights remain at red with nobody else crossing, If I am in the car I always wait until the lights change, if I'm on the bike I will ride on as soon as the last pedestrian has crossed.

Am I a bad person ?


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## Brandane (11 May 2018)

DCBassman said:


> Driving from Tavistock to Brentor on the Lydford road. Set of temporary lights covering a distance of about 50m.
> 
> Red for us, cyclist in front, slowed down to give him plenty of space to stop.
> 
> ...


Sooooooo........ This criminal on a bike; if he was doing 15mph, would take approx 7.2 seconds to cover the 50 metres section of roadworks. 
Was there a clear view beyond to the far end of the works? Was there any traffic coming towards you? Was there an escape (gaps in cones etc.) in the section of works where a 2' wide bike could get out of the way IF any stupidly fast moving nobber in a car appeared? Sorry but this is a complete non issue IMHO.. As for affecting drivers attitudes towards cyclists - tough. Some of them just have issues with other people whether it's on the roads or not, and I'm not their therapist.


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## Brandane (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> Am I a bad person ?


No; you have a thing called "common sense" which is becoming a rare quality.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Brandane said:


> No; you have a thing called "common sense" which is becoming a rare quality.



It's common sense to disobey road rules to suit?Ok then.

I can't actually remember when I have had the need to jump temporary lights or the dodgy or the slow changing ones at 3/4am because I'm in so much of a hurry.


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## Brandane (11 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> It's common sense to disobey road rules to suit?Ok then.


In the circumstances outlined in the post I was replying to - yes. You carry on waiting at red lights at pelican crossings when it's perfectly obvious that no-one is using it if you like. You'll be claiming that you don't do a sneaky wee left turn on your bike at a red light on a deserted street at 2am next.....


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Brandane said:


> In the circumstances outlined in the post I was replying to - yes. You carry on waiting at red lights at pelican crossings when it's perfectly obvious that no-one is using it if you like. You'll be claiming that you don't do a sneaky wee left turn on your bike at a red light on a deserted street at 2am next.....



I don't,what is the point?...To save a few seconds? Where have I heard that before?Ho hum.

I'm never in so much in a bloody hurry and I will never be in such a hurry to get to work again since I was rung at home to do a favour and come in early...So I rushed to work without jumping red lights...but this was the 90's...If I'm late for work...tough...It happens but rarely.

I don't get the "you make a sneaky left at a red light at two in the morning thing" just because you ignore red lights to suit (allegedly) doesn't mean I do.


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## Milkfloat (11 May 2018)

If you are going to RLJ then do it properly - us cyclists are mere amateurs.


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## benb (11 May 2018)

There's a junction near me where at one point in the pattern traffic is held at red just to stop the junction clogging up ahead.
I could go through with no impact or detriment to anybody - no conflict with other vehicles and no pedestrians crossing either.
So why on earth shouldn't I do that?


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## Tim Hall (11 May 2018)

Globalti said:


> Most temporary lights are controlled by PIR detectors on top of the lights so if they don't seem to sense you, a hand waved in front of the detector will set them off.


Doppler radar rather than PIR I think, so they can tell the difference between things moving towards and things moving away.


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> It's common sense to disobey road rules to suit?Ok then.
> 
> I can't actually remember when I have had the need to jump temporary lights or the dodgy or the slow changing ones at 3/4am because I'm in so much of a hurry.



How woukd you manage when confronted by faulty lights, that refuse to change, or won’t sense you at 4am with no other vehicles around to trigger the lights?

Just wondered whether there are any circumstances that you are prepared to become an outlaw.


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## swansonj (11 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> I don't,*what is the point?..*.To save a few seconds? Where have I heard that before?Ho hum.
> 
> I'm never in so much in a bloody hurry and I will never be in such a hurry to get to work again since I was rung at home to do a favour and come in early...So I rushed to work without jumping red lights...but this was the 90's...If I'm late for work...tough...It happens but rarely.
> 
> I don't get the "you make a sneaky left at a red light at two in the morning thing" just because you ignore red lights to suit (allegedly) doesn't mean I do.


You answer your own "what is the point" question but answer it wrongly, at least in my case. 

When I jump red lights, which is I think less than the average cyclist but more than zero, the point is not to save time, it is either to save energy (through not having to accelerate back up to speed again) or to improve safety (through clearing a junction before motor traffic appears).


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> How woukd you manage when confronted by faulty lights, that refuse to change, or won’t sense you at 4am with no other vehicles around to trigger the lights?
> 
> Just wondered whether there are any circumstances that you are prepared to become an outlaw.



Probably but that doesn't happen every day...must say rarely.Walk across may be an option and generally if it's during the day the motorists have realised they are faulty also.

The only set I know when the special people are in bed is at the end of Shorter Street near Tower Bridge in the early hours before 5am...The CS 3 lights down to Upper/Lower Thames street but I just walk across or make sure I'm in the bus lane.Generally I avoid anyway and go via Tower Bridge.

So we've got a vote for "I don't stop at red lights so I can save energy."
and also "Clear the junction before motor traffic appears."

How about just not cycling on the road in case motor traffic appears?


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## Milkfloat (11 May 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> How woukd you manage when confronted by faulty lights, that refuse to change, or won’t sense you at 4am with no other vehicles around to trigger the lights?
> 
> Just wondered whether there are any circumstances that you are prepared to become an outlaw.



I hope he does not go down the path of contacting my local authority, whom despite more than 6 requests over a 2 year period have not fixed the faulty lights near me that fail to sense me. If he does, then he better take something warm as often a car won't come by and trigger the lights for at least 5 minutes on a Sunday morning.


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## Venod (11 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> It's common sense to disobey road rules to suit?Ok then.



I am glad I have your approval

Another thing I do (unless I have the grandchildren with me) if as a pedestrian I am using a pelican and it is the red standing man but the road is completely empty of traffic, I cross , and I would hope that when the grandchildren get older and wiser and understand the situation they have the common sense to do so.

One of my pet hates is seeing a bunch adults waiting for a green signal when its obvious nothing is coming or likely to be while they cross the deserted road.


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## Tim Hall (11 May 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> How woukd you manage when confronted by faulty lights, that refuse to change, or won’t sense you at 4am with no other vehicles around to trigger the lights?
> 
> Just wondered whether there are any circumstances that you are prepared to become an outlaw.


Ooh! Ooh! Sir! I know this one:


> If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
> _Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36_


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## swansonj (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> I am glad I have your approval
> 
> Another thing I do (unless I have the grandchildren with me) if as a pedestrian I am using a pelican and it is the red standing man but the road is completely empty of traffic, I cross , and I would hope that when the grandchildren get older and wiser and understand the situation they have the common sense to do so.
> 
> One of my pet hates is seeing a bunch adults waiting for a green signal when its obvious nothing is coming or likely to be while they cross the deserted road.


To be fair, the red pedestrian is not I think a legally enforceable instruction whereas the red traffic light is.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> I hope he does not go down the path of contacting my local authority, whom despite more than 6 requests over a 2 year period have not fixed the faulty lights near me that fail to sense me. If he does, then he better take something warm as often a car won't come by and trigger the lights for at least 5 minutes on a Sunday morning.



I have done.A set at Stratford a few years back...Yes it took ages.


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## Venod (11 May 2018)

swansonj said:


> To be fair, the red pedestrian is not I think a legally enforceable instruction whereas the red traffic light is.



Yes I agree, but the same common sense decision applies.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> Yes I agree, but the same common sense decision applies.



Common sense? Have you seen how people cross the road...or the looney RLJers out there?

Please stop quoting "common sense"...you are over using it.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Yeah I get your point had that sometimes at temporary lights and some dodgy lights at Westferry don't give a lot of time to clear the junction.


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5240072, member: 9609"]As I said earlier with any long stretch of controlled area it is very often an impossibility to get through before the opposite end turns green, so may be it is safer to start off with red when you can see nothing coming, more chance of getting to the other end when it is on red.

for example, a stretch between 200m and 250m will be set at 25secs from amber at one side to green at the other.
therefor you have to maintain an average speed between 18 and 22.5 mph to stay safe.
up hill or into the wind? not a hope in hell[/QUOTE]

On one recent set of temporary lights, uphill with a sharp bend, cyclists had no chance of getting through the lights in one go, they had to stop half way up and wait for the lights to cycle again, most though just ignored the lights and cycled up the coned off area, but some did try, cue some angry horn beeping motorists following behind and the cyclists moving to the other side of the cones.


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> One of my pet hates is seeing a bunch adults waiting for a green signal when its obvious nothing is coming or likely to be while they cross the deserted road.



What if they're partially sighted? What if they're in no hurry? What of they're retired and have all the time in the world? Why should it bother you?


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## Milkfloat (11 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5240080, member: 9609"]
I'm not necessarily being on the side of cyclists here, I agree they are the biggest abuses of the law on the road,[/QUOTE]

Did you really mean to write that, or did you copy and paste something by accident from the Daily Mail? I hate to go down the 'prove it' route, but I would love for you to show me that cyclists are the biggest abusers of the law on the road.


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## smutchin (11 May 2018)

I have this unfortunate condition - it's caused by the DGAF gene and it means I'm unable to care what motorists think of my cycling. 

It's this same genetic condition that meant last week when I was in my car, waiting at a red light, and the driver behind decided to overtake and drive straight through the junction before the lights changed, I didn't feel the need to find an online motoring forum where I could recount this anecdote, citing it as evidence why it's OK to hate all motorists.


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## Venod (11 May 2018)

Drago said:


> What if they're partially sighted? What if they're in no hurry? What of they're retired and have all the time in the world? Why should it bother you?



Who said it bothered me ? If they want to stand at the side of the road, carry on, I just think it's a strange.


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## smutchin (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> Who said it bothered me ?



You described it as a 'pet hate' which sounds a bit strong for something that apparently doesn't bother you!


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## Siclo (11 May 2018)

Shirley it depends on the lights? Unless you're riding a steel bike you can stand in this ASL until the sun goes nova and the lights won't change without a motor vehicle behind you. Rules are for the guidance of the wise


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> Did you really mean to write that, or did you copy and paste something by accident from the Daily Mail? I hate to go down the 'prove it' route, but I would love for you to show me that cyclists are the biggest abusers of the law on the road.



I think it’s very easy to believe that if you live in a large city, but it’s far from correct throughout the country,

There are a lot of motorists who either have an incorrect understanding of what is legal for a cyclist to do, lots think that they have to ride in single file, or that you have to ride in cycle lanes, or ride in the gutter, or think that if they have to give cyclists 1.5m then cyclists should have to give them the same distance, asking them how many drivers have cyclists killed, by riding too close, is never answered,

If cyclists riding within the law are seen by motorists as breaking the law, then no matter what they do, the perception among motorists is that the law doesn’t apply to them.


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## Venod (11 May 2018)

smutchin said:


> You described it as a 'pet hate' which sounds a bit strong for something that apparently doesn't bother you!



Perhaps you should look bothered up in the dictionary, smoking and littering are two more of my pet hates, but I wouldn't say they bothered me.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Siclo said:


> Shirley it depends on the lights? Unless you're riding a steel bike you can stand in this ASL until the sun goes nova and the lights won't change without a motor vehicle behind you. Rules are tailored to suit what's best for me.



Yup got to agree,this is what I see out there.


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5240129, member: 9609"]Only because there is virtually no rules for cyclist to break whilst out in the countryside.[/QUOTE]
Plenty of rules, in the town I live in, 
Traffic lights, one way systems, roadworks


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## smutchin (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> Perhaps you should look bothered up in the dictionary, smoking and littering are two more of my pet hates, but I wouldn't say they bothered me.



According to my dictionary, a 'pet hate' is something that annoys you, and according to my thesaurus 'annoys' is a synonym for 'bothers'. HTH.


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## Rooster1 (11 May 2018)

winjim said:


> Today I saw a car driver jump a red light.



Well done


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## DaveReading (11 May 2018)

Tim Hall said:


> Doppler radar rather than PIR I think, so they can tell the difference between things moving towards and things moving away.



"How does it work?

Each signal is provided with a vehicle-detector unit. These units normally use microwave technology
and are often referred to as an ‘MVD’ (Microwave Vehicle Detector). Other technology can be used,
but the unit must be approved (see page 3).

The MVD can detect most moving motor vehicles, including larger motorcycles, up to 40 metres
away, but with smaller motorcycles and cycles the distance is 25 metres — provided they are
travelling towards the MVD at speeds greater than 10 mph and the detector is correctly aligned (see
next page). Some detectors may be able to work outside these limits."

An Introduction to the Use of Portable Vehicular Signals

So it appears that if you keep your speed up until you get close, you have a better chance of triggering the detector.


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## Siclo (11 May 2018)

Lonestar said:


> Yup got to agree,this is what I see out there.



Oh I agree with your amendment, however ultimately the fault rarely lies with a system user (numbskulls aside), a system has to meet the needs of all it's users, as soon as you start expecting the users to meet the needs of the system, users will deviate and the system breaks. A successful system should always be more attractive to the user than an alternative. 

Road systems are an interesting one, multiple users with differing needs:

Motorists want to save time, hence rat-running.
Cyclists want so save momentum, hence RLJ.
Pedestrians want to save distance, hence crossing away from facilities.

All too often the system engineers simply can't be bothered to attempt to resolve those conflicting needs.


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## snorri (11 May 2018)

Drago said:


> What of they're retired and have all the time in the world?


I think retired people are more aware than most that time is running out fast.


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## Lonestar (11 May 2018)

Siclo said:


> Motorists want to save time, hence rat-running.
> Cyclists want so save momentum, hence RLJ.
> Pedestrians want to save distance, hence crossing away from facilities.



I don't really have problems with pedestrians so long as they look...It does help...Dare I say it but I can't always see everything and make the odd mistake.

Seems like down the backstreets they only use their ears...if that instead of looking...but hey ho...I'm used to that on my routes.


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

Afnug said:


> Who said it bothered me ? If they want to stand at the side of the road, carry on, I just think it's a strange.



You did, unless you actually like pet hates.


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## Brandane (11 May 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Don't go to Helsinki. You'd hate it.



Or Japan; I got pulled up by the Police for trying to cross an empty road against the "red man" signal. Or at least I assume that's what he was giving me a rollocking for, given that I don't speak Japanese and he didn't speak English. It was 40 years ago when I was a spotty yoof in the Merchant Navy, things might have lightened up since then.


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## Tim Hall (11 May 2018)

Drago said:


> You did, unless you actually like pet hates.


I've got a fish related to the cod and the haddock that I keep in aquarium. It's my pet hake.


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

Oh my cod, the fish puns are back!


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## Rooster1 (11 May 2018)

You guys are going to krill this forum.


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

This forum used to be a nice plaice.


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## smutchin (11 May 2018)

Drago said:


> This forum used to be a nice plaice.



Pollocks.


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## Rooster1 (11 May 2018)

this is all just click white bait


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2018)

It's been a whale since we had any fish puns


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

I orca report this to Shaun.


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

Whale you've been away the fish puns have returned. Ive just about haddock enough of them.


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## lazybloke (11 May 2018)

I thought the joke floundered hours (years) ago


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## Drago (11 May 2018)

I don't like to carp on about it, but the puns are becoming a damp squid. We should show some remora for this constant fish punning.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 May 2018)

Is it time to clam up?


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## Mr Celine (11 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5239570, member: 9609"]Potentially traffic lights can be timed at 1 second for every 10 metres. So if you go through just before amber shows and you average below 22.5mph the green will come on at the far end.

There has been a few occasions where I have met vehicles coming the other way at road works even though I have went through on green, even had abuse and threats hurled at me for jumping the red light.

My local council, plus my MSP, plus the Scottish Transport minister don't seem to be remotely interested.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever been to Moffat on the A708? 







I know what it says on the box with the push button on the traffic light because I've been stopped there often enough in a car. But when I cycled throught it last year the lights had just changed to green for the car in front. Did I brake from 20mph to push the button? Aye, right!! (I was actually going the other way, but the old triumph makes for a better screengrab).

On the box it says, in minute writing completely un-noticable to a cyclist moving at any speed, cyclists press the button. This keeps the light at the other end red for longer than normal.


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## Mr Celine (12 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5241044, member: 9609"]Driven through there many times, never cycled it, did not know there was a delay button for cyclists - what a good idea.

[/QUOTE]

It's a good idea, but could be better executed and should have an explanatory sign in advance which is of a size legible to an approaching cyclist. Top marks to Dumfries and Galloway for at least trying. Compare that to SBCs botch at Neidpath on the A72, which incidentally I went through on the same century ride as the lights in Moffatdale. 






Where do you even start with this? There's an ASL on the main carriageway, but a cycle lane to the left of it which bypasses both the stop line and the traffic light. Does the keep right arrow on the traffic island make the cycle lane unusable? Do the traffic lights apply to a cyclist in the bypass lane? Why does the cycle lane stop abruptly 10 metres beyond the traffic lights with no warning whatsoever?
The only safe way to negotiate this is to obey both the traffic lights and and the keep right bollard and to ride the whole thing in primary.


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## nickyboy (12 May 2018)

I have a confession to make

At these rural temps, if the bit they're digging up can be ridden (such as having a narrow trench) I will RLJ and ride the "coned off" bit

I feel better for having unburdened myself


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## Drago (12 May 2018)

nickyboy said:


> I have a confession to make
> 
> At these rural temps, if the bit they're digging up can be ridden (such as having a narrow trench) I will RLJ and ride the "coned off" bit
> 
> I feel better for having unburdened myself


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## benb (16 May 2018)

Enough with the fish puns. Fin


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## Black Sheep (16 May 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> On the roads I use, which have had a lot of temporary traffic lights, they don’t seem to want to trigger for cyclists, it’s not too bad if your on the downhill side, waiting until a bigger vehicle sets the lights off, but uphill can mean a long line of slow traffic as you climb the slow hill, so at times I admit to getting off and pushing the bike up the pavement, or even the other sides of the cones, car drivers don’t seem to mind that, I wouldn’t ride through a red though.



There's a junction near where I work that I can't use on the motorbike once the leaves disappear from the trees, I have to RLJ it or take a mile loop round to get to the same place. Once leaves are on the tree then the CCTV camera right behind me is completely engulfed by the tree so can't see my number plate. 

I always treat it as a broken light and proceed with care giving way to everything, same as I used to do when cycling through Coventry where none of the lights reacted to bikes - my route through the city centre traffic lighted junctions were mainly left turns to make RLJ safer and easier late at night where I wasn't able to route round the junction.


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## Alan O (16 May 2018)

I had one last week, where I got into a right-turn filter lane at a traffic-light junction, to find the right-turn lights were vehicle activated and I wasn't detectable. In the end I got off and became a pedestrian when there was a clear stretch of road.

To make it worse, it was the wrong right turn! I had to get back across the road and continue ahead.


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