# Wirral to Deeside help



## The Brewer (5 May 2012)

I really enjoy getting the train up to the Wirral and cycling home via the old railway lines, its just one stretch that's with heavy traffic that I need to cut out and make the ride more pleasant.

I come down the west side of the Wirral, West Kirby to Neston, on to Burton then hit heavy traffic from Two Mills to Sealand where I meet up with National route 5 and on to Chester.

Anyone have a better route from Burton to Deeside, not fun on dual carriageways


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## subaqua (6 May 2012)

burton to puddington through to shotwick ( avoid shotwick hollow) follow the BOAT(byway open to all traffic) to the deeside industrial estate roundabout then use green lane to the old mickle trafford hawarden bridge line which is now a good cycle track,
2 options then
1 to chester along the old rail line
2 into N wales
folow the cycle track almost to hawarden bridge then cut back through Garden city to the blue bridge. avoids the nasty dual section from two mills to queensferry flyover.

will try to plot it as a GPX file for upload to garmin etc.

the routes in the area are far better than they were when i was growing up not far from there.


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## The Brewer (6 May 2012)

Thanks Subaqua
I have a garmin so a gpx would really make it easy


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## sean8997 (6 May 2012)

do you live in Chester? I'm looking for a weekend cycling partner if you need someone to ride with


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## The Brewer (6 May 2012)

I'm in Wrexham Sean, sadly I work most weekends


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## subaqua (7 May 2012)

The Brewer said:


> Thanks Subaqua
> I have a garmin so a gpx would really make it easy


 
http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_1969648.html you should be able to save the GPX file . you may need to create a mapometer account (free)


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## dodgy (7 May 2012)

That track from Shotwick to Deeside is what we know locally as Paris-Roubaix, it's quite rough but manageable even on a road bike. Just don't expect smooth surfaces 

Edit, just saw the map, hmmm, that's using tracks that even I've never used and I ride around here all the time!

Further edit, that's a lot of effort to avoid roughly 1km of the A540.


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## subaqua (7 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> That track from Shotwick to Deeside is what we know locally as Paris-Roubaix, it's quite rough but manageable even on a road bike. Just don't expect smooth surfaces
> 
> Edit, just saw the map, hmmm, that's using tracks that even I've never used and I ride around here all the time!
> 
> Further edit, that's a lot of effort to avoid roughly 1km of the A540.


 
the A540 isn't the problem , its shotwick hollow, thats a mental road in a car. each to their own


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## The Brewer (7 May 2012)

subaqua said:


> http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_1969648.html you should be able to save the GPX file . you may need to create a mapometer account (free)


 
Can't thank you enough, those wagons got a bit close a few times near Two mills and this will make it a much more pleasant ride

Thanks again


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## dodgy (7 May 2012)

subaqua said:


> the A540 isn't the problem , its shotwick hollow, thats a mental road in a car. each to their own


 

No need to ride down Shotwick hollow. the tracks you've linked to I'm not sure even exist IYSWIM. None of the local riders I know would choose that as an option anyway.

This is the way I would get from Burton to Deeside:

http://g.co/maps/yhcxv

Note the route crosses the A550, its a horse crossing that takes you onto the 'Green Lane' which is a 100% traffic free route for cyclists on perfect tarmac.


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## The Brewer (7 May 2012)

Cheers Dodgy
I loaded the kml file to google earth and exported it to my garmin.

If I get a chance later in the week I'll try the routes


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## dodgy (8 May 2012)

Yep, let us know how you get on, I have doubts that though they show up on Google, the tracks/roads are suitable as linked to by subaqua. If they are rideable, it will be a revelation for me as I ride around those roads 4 times a week and all my rides into Wales would benefit (every Sat and Sun).


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## Crackle (8 May 2012)

subaqua said:


> http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_1969648.html you should be able to save the GPX file . you may need to create a mapometer account (free)


 
Have you ridden any of that subaqua. I need to look but some of the roads around there are private and fenced off as they belong to Vauxhall motors. It'd be lovely if they weren't.


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## subaqua (8 May 2012)

would need to check the definitive maps at the local town halls. OS maps have been updated over the weekend - now shows footpath and bridle way


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## The Brewer (8 May 2012)

subaqua said:


> http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_1969648.html you should be able to save the GPX file . you may need to create a mapometer account (free)


 
Day off today and weather was predicted to be okay, so thought I'd try the route.

Its as said very bumpy and after last nights rain a bit muddy, but okay if you follow the tractor trails. Came out opposite Starbucks drive thru, so saw this as an omen to stop and let the white knuckle subside


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## Crackle (8 May 2012)

The Brewer said:


> Day off today and weather was predicted to be okay, so thought I'd try the route.
> 
> Its as said very bumpy and after last nights rain a bit muddy, but okay if you follow the tractor trails. Came out opposite Starbucks drive thru, so saw this as an omen to stop and let the white knuckle subside


 
Interesting to know you can get through then, though it sounds a bit 'adventurous' on a road bike.


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## dodgy (8 May 2012)

There's also another route through, it goes from Denhall Lane and goes through the MOD firing range and RSPB land across the marshes  I've done it once, but it's a PITA.


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## The Brewer (8 May 2012)

Don't think I'd do it again after a night of rain, but in dryer weather it might be better. Had to give way to a couple of tractors who just waved.
Sign posted as a public footpath at the start in Puddington and was ready to act dumb and blame the garmin if I got stopped, but you could bumpily drive a car down the route.

With the excellent cycle routes in Cheshire it just seem odd that theres not a better route to Sealand and route 5 from Neston, god knows enough traffic passes that way


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## The Brewer (8 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> There's also another route through, it goes from Denhall Lane and goes through the MOD firing range and RSPB land across the marshes  I've done it once, but it's a PITA.


 
Tried to use that one the other week, but it now sign posted 'Private land but owner permits walkers'


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## dodgy (8 May 2012)

There is a campaign to have it opened up but apparently it's the RSPB that are the biggest hurdle, I heard they won't engage in talks about it.


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## Crackle (8 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> There's also another route through, it goes from Denhall Lane and goes through the MOD firing range and RSPB land across the marshes  I've done it once, but it's a PITA.


Blimey, you're a braver man than me Gungha Din


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## dodgy (8 May 2012)

Crackle said:


> Blimey, you're a braver man than me Gungha Din


 
Hehe, I remember having to clamber over the locked gate at the far end by using the nearby grass embankment. Feet got all wet in the long grass and I spent the next 5 hours with freezing cold feet.

This is a serious point though, everyone who's a keen cyclist on Wirral knows about the problems of getting into Wales, I'd like to see an answer to it. But the route I put up further above is I think, the best compromise, if it wasn't I wouldn't be riding it!


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## junglegusset (8 May 2012)

Crackle said:


> Blimey, you're a braver man than me Gungha Din



I used to do this a fair bit, you can hear if they are firing, they seem to fly the red flags whether there's shooting going on or not. I did it recently, the biggest problem is the poor state of the road and the lifting of bike over fences and gates. I'm sure it used to be easier. Somebody told me that there was a plan to build a track down here, this would be a dream come true for me. RSPB stopped it eh? We'll I will not be supporting them anymore.


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## Crackle (8 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> This is a serious point though, everyone who's a keen cyclist on Wirral knows about the problems of getting into Wales, I'd like to see an answer to it. But the route I put up further above is I think, the best compromise, if it wasn't I wouldn't be riding it!


 
Yeah, that way, ncn5 or the first bit of the 494 off the 540 and then scoot off past the Sealand base on the minor road next to the 494 and there's a few cycle paths there as well which I've never explored.

Getting off the Wirral is a pita any way on a bike. There's always some compromise.


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## subaqua (9 May 2012)

Crackle said:


> Getting off the Wirral is a pita any way on a bike. There's always some compromise.


 
is more like it. I used to hate coming back from Hoylake to N Wales ( MANWEB training college) when I was an apprentice and had just got a car. even the M56 to Drome improvements haven't improved it much. Good Friday into Wales was always fun to watch as we whizzed about on bikes.


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## lejogger (9 May 2012)

The Brewer said:


> I really enjoy getting the train up to the Wirral and cycling home via the old railway lines, its just one stretch that's with heavy traffic that I need to cut out and make the ride more pleasant.
> 
> I come down the west side of the Wirral, West Kirby to Neston, on to Burton then hit heavy traffic from Two Mills to Sealand where I meet up with National route 5 and on to Chester.
> 
> Anyone have a better route from Burton to Deeside, not fun on dual carriageways


 
When we (the Sunlight) go out to Wales from Two Mills we always drop down the never ending lane and down the new cyclepath to Sealand. If there's a better way for road bikes then I'm sure we'd use it. I've mapped it here
Doesn't avoid the Chester High Rd obviously, but might help. If we're going to Deeside to go down the coast then we do this or alternatively keep on the B5441 straight through Garden City and Queensferry if heading up to Hawarden.


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## dodgy (9 May 2012)

lejogger said:


> When we (the Sunlight) go out to Wales from Two Mills we always drop down the never ending lane and down the new cyclepath to Sealand. If there's a better way for road bikes then I'm sure we'd use it. I've mapped it here
> Doesn't avoid the Chester High Rd obviously, but might help. If we're going to Deeside to go down the coast then we do this or alternatively keep on the B5441 straight through Garden City and Queensferry if heading up to Hawarden.


 
That's exactly the route I mapped out above, it's the way all experienced Wirral based cyclists would go, *there is no better alternative*. I think subaqua was just trying to be helpful when he mapped out a route using a web-based map, they may look like rideable roads/tracks, but if they were - we'd all be using them like you say. You can't beat local knowledge.


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## lejogger (9 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> That's exactly the route I mapped out above, it's the way all experienced Wirral based cyclists would go, *there is no better alternative*. I think subaqua was just trying to be helpful when he mapped out a route using a web-based map, they may look like rideable roads/tracks, but if they were - we'd all be using them like you say. You can't beat local knowledge.


 Ah, sorry Dodgy... I forgot to check out your link.


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## dodgy (9 May 2012)

lejogger said:


> Ah, sorry Dodgy... I forgot to check out your link.


 
Not at all, just glad that all these years I haven't been going the wrong way into Wales


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## The Brewer (9 May 2012)

Thanks guys Lejoggers and Dodgy route is the way I'll try next time


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## subaqua (9 May 2012)

dodgy said:


> That's exactly the route I mapped out above, it's the way all experienced Wirral based cyclists would go, *there is no better alternative*. I think subaqua was just trying to be helpful when he mapped out a route using a web-based map, they may look like rideable roads/tracks, but if they were - we'd all be using them like you say. You can't beat local knowledge.


 

yeah my Local knowledge is about 10 years out of date now.
I can remember cutting down through Burton etc to miss out traffic chaos from Shotwick Hollow to the old lights at the junction of A550/A5117, but thats many many years ago now


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## dodgy (10 May 2012)

Regarding the Burton Marshes link

From http://www.chestercyclecity.org/wp-content/themes/CycleChester/files/CCC Minutes October 2011.pdf

"3) Burton Marshes MOD RSPB Link 
Information received from Glyn Evans, Sustrans Flintshire office, states that the link across the marshes is 
expected to be up and running in 2012, as all parties involved are now on board and there is a consensus on 
the route to be taken"

Hmm, we'll see.


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## john59 (12 May 2012)

Cyclestreets uk, is worth a look when planning routes etc.

John


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## dodgy (11 Oct 2012)

Big update on this thread, from http://www.chestercyclecity.org/?p=823



> *Burton Marshes Cycle Link*
> After a number of squabbles and delays, it looks as if the construction of the cycle link from Deeside to Burton across Burton Marshes may finally be going ahead. Both the RSPB and MOD have apparently confirmed their support for the proposals, and signed contracts are expected soon.



Story is dated 11th October 2012.


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## neil_merseyside (12 Oct 2012)

I was at a cycle forum recently and it was mentioned the RSPB link will open this year, and apparently Chester and Cheshire West council have plans to link this into the Wirral Way - that may just be sploshing magic paint about of course...


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## dodgy (19 Feb 2013)

The new route is well under way now, looks to be finishing in roughly 4 weeks, easily in time for Easter any way, probably a lot before. They're building a boardwalk with non slip surface for part of it as the ground underneath is quite marshy.

Can't come soon enough.


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## BikeLiker (19 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> The new route is well under way now, looks to be finishing in roughly 4 weeks, easily in time for Easter any way, probably a lot before. They're building a boardwalk with non slip surface for part of it as the ground underneath is quite marshy.
> 
> Can't come soon enough.


 
That's great news - thanks for the update.


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## Crackle (19 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> The new route is well under way now, looks to be finishing in roughly 4 weeks, easily in time for Easter any way, probably a lot before. They're building a boardwalk with non slip surface for part of it as the ground underneath is quite marshy.
> 
> Can't come soon enough.


Where will it link to on the Welsh side, Deeside somewhere?


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## dodgy (19 Feb 2013)

Apparently it will link to Hawarden Bridge station.


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## Crackle (19 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> Apparently it will link to Hawarden Bridge station.


That makes sense: Follows the railway line then. It'll be excellent when it's finished.

I think I once caught the train from Hawarden station.


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## neil wyn (20 Feb 2013)

Really looking forward to this link opening, work seems to be moving on at a pace now after all the years of negotiations! The route winds its way through the ind. estate after going under the dual carriagway to reach the cycle path to Hawarden Bridge, or of course the Flintshire Bridge is another option, though it's without a dedicated cycle lane. Decent update here: http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshi...1522-New-Cycle-Route-Links-Neston-and-Deeside


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## subaqua (20 Feb 2013)

Crackle said:


> That makes sense: Follows the railway line then. It'll be excellent when it's finished.
> 
> I think I once caught the train from Hawarden station.


 Hawarden and Hawarden Bridge are a fair few miles apart and have Shotton between them !


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## Crackle (20 Feb 2013)

subaqua said:


> Hawarden and Hawarden Bridge are a fair few miles apart and have Shotton between them !


My mistake. Hawarden Bridge.


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## subaqua (20 Feb 2013)

Crackle said:


> My mistake. Hawarden Bridge.


 it has to be the most depressing station i have ever stopped at. can't wait foer the new cycle route tho. hope i get chance at easter to get out on it. sustrans as usual don't have a route on the website


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## HLaB (20 Feb 2013)

Geez, thats a long ride, Wirral to Deeside; worth it for the views though


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## The Brewer (20 Feb 2013)

Brilliant news, its still one of my favorite rides and this section is the icing on the cake.

Train to Bidston a short cycle to Wallasey and a long ride home virtually car free


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## BikeLiker (25 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> Big update on this thread, from http://www.chestercyclecity.org/?p=823
> 
> 
> Story is dated 11th October 2012.


 
Went for a nosey along this route on the way to Chester today on the MTB and it's coming on nicely. The only section incomplete is the "bypass" along the railway around the MOD bit. The MOD gates are open to allow plant and materials through so effectively the way to Chester is now clear. The path between Little Neston - The Harp - and the bottom of Denhall Lane is also being resurfaced with boring tarmac and is currently closed.






Entrance to new section on Deeside side of A548





Exiting A548 underpass looking toward Burton





Start of MOD "Bypass" heading towards Burton. Old track has been resurfaced along entire length.


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## The Brewer (25 Feb 2013)

I cycle sometimes with an older friend who is so aching to do this ride he's bouncing with joy that this is finally coming into place.
Please as soon as it open please post or mesasge so I can take him up there


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## dodgy (26 Feb 2013)

So would you say it's now possible to ride from Burton to Deeside on a road bike? I'm not bothered about the bit connecting the Harp.


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## BikeLiker (26 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> So would you say it's now possible to ride from Burton to Deeside on a road bike? I'm not bothered about the bit connecting the Harp.


Yes, the bit between Denhall and Burton point isn't the best of roads oat the moment, but not the worst either. Better than the missing link, certainly.


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## dodgy (26 Feb 2013)

BikeLiker said:


> Yes, the bit between Denhall and Burton point isn't the best of roads oat the moment, but not the worst either. Better than the missing link, certainly.


 
Funny enough I just went down there while you typed that out, I couldn't see a way of getting across this lot to the workers in the distance. The track to the left you can see is on unfinished boardwalk, and the track to the right I have no idea where it goes. But I know the new track goes alongside the railway, which is where the workers are in the distance. There didn't seem any way of getting there that didn't involve going over lots of mud.


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## BikeLiker (26 Feb 2013)

dodgy said:


> Funny enough I just went down there while you typed that out, I couldn't see a way of getting across this lot to the workers in the distance. The track to the left you can see is on unfinished boardwalk, and the track to the right I have no idea where it goes. But I know the new track goes alongside the railway, which is where the workers are in the distance. There didn't seem any way of getting there that didn't involve going over lots of mud.


 
The track to the right was open yesterday and leads to the A548 via the MoD compound which was also open.That's the way I went. Maybe they've locked up after my temerity at jumping the gun, though I wasn't alone - I saw 2 other cyclists using the path.


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## dodgy (26 Feb 2013)

Aha, makes sense. I'm really looking forward to this opening, it's a game changer for local cyclists. Though the stretch from Denhall Lane to where the picture was taken above is quite rough track, I wonder if they intend to resurface it? It's fairly broken up.


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## neil_merseyside (26 Feb 2013)

I went along for a nosey today and the gates are locked (usual) so no legal access, the path is still being constructed on the wetlands section, and a long way from complete looking across from the RSPB centre with a handily provided telescope :-) The permissive permissions have not yet been granted according to the warden at RSPB centre, he was rather anti-cycle and said 'cyclists are still trying it on' even though the gates are locked, the range flags are flying, and works warnings posted! Please don't try and use it until officially open would be my reccomendation.
The road from the point to the Harp is mostly rubble having been skimmed, but the contractors are laying lots of tarmac, and I think that this section will be finished this week! I reckon another month at least to finish, not sure when the official opening is - by Easter was the plan.


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## dodgy (26 Feb 2013)

neil_merseyside said:


> the range flags are flying


 
I can honestly never remember one single time that those range flags have NOT been flying at the junction of Denhall lane and the permissive path. They simply never reflect what is going on at the range! I'm aware of what the red flag is for (17 years in the forces), I'm pretty sure they just leave it up all the time.


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## BikeLiker (26 Feb 2013)

neil_merseyside said:


> I went along for a nosey today and the gates are locked (usual) so no legal access, the path is still being constructed on the wetlands section, and a long way from complete looking across from the RSPB centre with a handily provided telescope :-) The permissive permissions have not yet been granted according to the warden at RSPB centre, he was rather anti-cycle and said 'cyclists are still trying it on' even though the gates are locked, the range flags are flying, and works warnings posted! Please don't try and use it until officially open would be my reccomendation.
> .


 
No sure if you're intending to question the truth of my post but it reads like you are to me. The gates were wide open yesterday and there were no signs anywhere suggesting entry was restricted, only that work was underway. Neither did any of the workers question my presence there.


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## neil_merseyside (26 Feb 2013)

BikeLiker said:


> No sure if you're intending to question the truth of my post but it reads like you are to me. The gates were wide open yesterday and there were no signs anywhere suggesting entry was restricted, only that work was underway. Neither did any of the workers question my presence there.



I'm not questioning your post in any way, just reporting what I saw there today and what some of the interested parties had to say!


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## dodgy (7 Mar 2013)

They're making great progress. Went up today and the boardwalk I would say is 80% complete. And like others have said, where there is new tarmac it's as smooth as silk, and I'm told by the contractors that wherever there is scrubby track, they will be laying fresh tarmac over it.

The only negative thing I have to say is that there is at least one place where you have to get off your bike and carry bike over a gate (right at the junction of Denhall Lane and the red flag). The gate looks new, so this looks like it's here to stay. It's a kissing style gate, so not possible to ride through.

Contractors tell me it will be 100% rideable by early next week


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## mirrorman (7 Mar 2013)

Is the path suitable for road bikes,or more hybrid/mtb ?


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## dodgy (7 Mar 2013)

mirrorman said:


> Is the path suitable for road bikes,or more hybrid/mtb ?


 
Like it says several times in this thread, the surface is smooth as silk and excellent for road bikes.


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## mirrorman (7 Mar 2013)

dodgy said:


> Like it says several times in this thread, the surface is smooth as silk and excellent for road bikes.


Thanks


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## dodgy (12 Mar 2013)

dodgy said:


> The only negative thing I have to say is that there is at least one place where you have to get off your bike and carry bike over a gate (right at the junction of Denhall Lane and the red flag). The gate looks new, so this looks like it's here to stay. It's a kissing style gate, so not possible to ride through.



Rode past today and workers were removing this gate 

I rode up to the boardwalk section and it's almost finished.


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## The Brewer (12 Mar 2013)

Dentist in the morning then off for a nose


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## The Brewer (13 Mar 2013)

Went down to Burton point on Denhall lane and up the MOD road. Workmen working on the boardwalk and said there were lots of screw about due to the work and asked me not to use the new path 

Anyone know the exact route the new route takes....on a map if possible


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## headcoat (13 Mar 2013)

This new route sounds good, can't wait for it to open!


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## dodgy (13 Mar 2013)

The blue dotted line on here shows the route http://www.sustrans.org.uk/map

I also knocked this up to show the route http://ridewithgps.com/routes/2181571 Note that when the route gets to the Dee, you can turn left into Chester, I just draw the route into Hawarden Bridge as that is a recognisable place in Wales.

PS - Was that one of you guys on the bike with bright orange jacket, taking photos just by the new gate by the range flag?


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## The Brewer (13 Mar 2013)

Thanks for the maps Dodgy I guess the signage isn't in place yet

It was just workmen there, about 11am this morning. Looks like it'll soon be open, I think the work signs said 15th April.

If i get chance Im going to have another look on Sunday when hopefully they'll be no workmen


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## dodgy (16 Mar 2013)

I rode it this morning, contractors have left a couple of gates laying on floor, obviously to dissuade people from using the boardwalk, but it's perfectly passable with care. I rode it through to Deeside then took Dee path into Chester to pick up rail tickets. 45 mile return journey by bike, probably at least 35 of it completely traffic free! I don't think the part that links Church Lane with Flint Drive is particularly useful, it's busy with pedestrians and dog walkers. Better just to head for Marshlands Road and join by the Harp instead.


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## BikeLiker (16 Mar 2013)

dodgy said:


> I rode it this morning, contractors have left a couple of gates laying on floor, obviously to dissuade people from using the boardwalk, but it's perfectly passable with care. I rode it through to Deeside then took Dee path into Chester to pick up rail tickets. 45 mile return journey by bike, probably at least 35 of it completely traffic free! I don't think the part that links Church Lane with Flint Drive is particularly useful, it's busy with pedestrians and dog walkers. Better just to head for Marshlands Road and join by the Harp instead.


 
Was that you in the red hat I saw going the other way - I asked if the path was open? I'm not too keen on that cattle grid at the end of the boardwalk section, otherwise it's a great job.


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## dodgy (16 Mar 2013)

BikeLiker said:


> Was that you in the red hat I saw going the other way - I asked if the path was open? I'm not too keen on that cattle grid at the end of the boardwalk section, otherwise it's a great job.


Nope, not me. I think the cattle grid is temporary, they removed a few strips of boardwalk to dissuade usage and I think the cattle grid is actually a piece of gate that someone has used to bridge the gap. Could be wrong though.


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## The Brewer (17 Mar 2013)

I cheated and got the train to Neston this morning then followed Dodgy's map on my gps.
Yeah its just a gate at the start of the boardwalk, you can see the planks to the side have nails in them from when they were taken up......excuse pic, its a still from my headcam







Looks like the whole road from the red flag is getting resurfaced as Dodgy said, they've done lots since I was there on Wednesday.

30 miles in under 2hours coming back to Wrexham and half of it without a car to be seen


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## Muguruki (19 Mar 2013)

Living in Shotton and I've never been tempted to take a ride over to Wirral, I always head in the other direction to all the lumpy stuff but I guess now with this cycle path I've got no excuse.


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## BikeLiker (21 Mar 2013)

The Brewer said:


> I cheated and got the train to Neston this morning then followed Dodgy's map on my gps.
> Yeah its just a gate at the start of the boardwalk, you can see the planks to the side have nails in them from when they were taken up......excuse pic, its a still from my headcam
> 
> 
> ...


 
Definitely a cattle grid. Where the gap on the left is in the picture there is now a swing gate with solid boarding beneath it for animals to pass. The right hand side is left open across the cattle grid, presumably to contain the sheep. Makes for a bumpy passage on 23mm tyres, though.


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## dodgy (22 Mar 2013)

Yes I went through on Wednesday and the cattle grid on the right is now fixed in place. They've also put speed bumps on sections of the path where cars are allowed.


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## The Brewer (22 Mar 2013)

I guess a cattle grid is better than a style or kissing gate. Weather stopping me from getting down there this weekend


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## headcoat (29 Mar 2013)

Is this route officially opened yet? Was thinking of trying it this weekend.

Can someone show me a map of where it starts from in the Wirral, I know roughly where but would like to plan a route from Seacombe to it and try for traffic free, such as Wirral circular route or NCN route.

Thanks


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## The Brewer (29 Mar 2013)

Dodgy's put some maps up on post 66. Snow up in North Wales is stopping still


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## neil_merseyside (29 Mar 2013)

headcoat said:


> Is this route officially opened yet? Was thinking of trying it this weekend.
> 
> Can someone show me a map of where it starts from in the Wirral, I know roughly where but would like to plan a route from Seacombe to it and try for traffic free, such as Wirral circular route or NCN route.
> 
> Thanks



I'm not sure it's officially open so I personally wouldn't antagonise the RSPB as they were so anti-path OK in the first place, they could get funny and grant limited access [1] The warden I spoke with recently ranted a lot!! and was very anti-bike (especially those checking during construction) so if he has any say in the access conditions we could be stuffed, he may only be a volunteer but could be the regional boss and so I'll wait just a couple more weeks until it access is official.

[1] if no weekend or wednesday access it would kill most CTC two mills group rides for example.


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## dodgy (29 Mar 2013)

I couldn't give a stuff about the RSPB, I'm not impressed at all with their attitude over the years. Yes it's a permissive path, but there's no way the RSPB could police a withdrawal of access. I really have no time for them. They reckon cyclists will disturb the wildlife, conveniently ignoring the fact there's a live firing range no more than 200 metres away.

Anyway, yes the route is open, albeit there hasn't been a ribbon cutting ceremony. Check out http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and select 'cycle map' in the layer menu top right. You'll see I've added the route (NCN568) there.


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## neil_merseyside (29 Mar 2013)

dodgy said:


> I couldn't give a stuff about the RSPB, I'm not impressed at all with their attitude over the years. Yes it's a permissive path, but there's no way the RSPB could police a withdrawal of access. I really have no time for them. They reckon cyclists will disturb the wildlife, conveniently ignoring the fact there's a live firing range no more than 200 metres away.
> 
> Anyway, yes the route is open, albeit there hasn't been a ribbon cutting ceremony. Check out http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and select 'cycle map' in the layer menu top right. You'll see I've added the route (NCN568) there.



Just because you've added it doesn't make it open! 

What other laws and conventions do you ignore when 'you' think it doesn't apply to you, or are unlikely to be caught?


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## john59 (29 Mar 2013)

I took a ride down there today and there were a few cyclists and walkers.



























View: http://youtu.be/uN5ZZMqrABY


John


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## The Brewer (29 Mar 2013)

Dodgy by name etc 
The plans have been agreed, the paths been built and people are using it now.One grumpy twitcher aint going to stop it now


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## Crackle (29 Mar 2013)

Well if it's not closed it's open. What does RSPB guy look like. I'd like to make sure I flick the v's at the right person?


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## headcoat (29 Mar 2013)

Thanks for the info. I may pop along this weekend.


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## dodgy (29 Mar 2013)

neil_merseyside said:


> Just because you've added it doesn't make it open!
> 
> What other laws and conventions do you ignore when 'you' think it doesn't apply to you, or are unlikely to be caught?


 
You may have respect for some job's worth RSPB warden, but I don't, particular one that has gone on record as being 'anti cyclist' (for whatever reason). We lost access to this route in 1992 because of the MOD, and it's partly the RSPB's fault that it took 21 years to get it back.

I will however show the utmost respect to dog walkers, pedestrians, children, other cyclists, but the RSPB can do one.


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## neil_merseyside (29 Mar 2013)

Crackle said:


> Well if it's not closed it's open. What does RSPB guy look like. I'd like to make sure I flick the v's at the right person?



Ignoring the 'walkers only' doesn't make it open.

As to 'The warden' ERM this is when we have trouble, as most RSPB people look like most tandem captains I've ever met, and every recumbenteers - so beard and sandals :-0

including the women ;-)


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## focus123 (29 Mar 2013)

As for the RSPB I am a cyclist and a bird watcher. But I know how obstinate the RSPB can be, on the Welsh side of the Dee, there has been many problems trying to construct an offroad cycle path along the estuary. But a well constructed cycle path actually enhances the environment, as anyone who has used the connah's quay to chester path will know. The problem is with dog walkers who let there dogs run loose and disturb the birds.


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## Crackle (29 Mar 2013)

neil_merseyside said:


> Ignoring the 'walkers only' doesn't make it open.
> 
> As to 'The warden' ERM this is when we have trouble, as most RSPB people look like most tandem captains I've ever met, and every recumbenteers - so beard and sandals :-0
> 
> including the women ;-)


 
Is that what it says, Walkers only. Seems odd if it's all complete. Anyway, it'll be a few weeks before I get there, too cold 

I look forward to it though. Might take my duck whistle when I finally ride it.


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## BikeLiker (29 Mar 2013)

Crackle said:


> Is that what it says, Walkers only. Seems odd if it's all complete. Anyway, it'll be a few weeks before I get there, too cold
> 
> I look forward to it though. Might take my duck whistle when I finally ride it.


 
It doesn't say anything. The stretch between Denhall and the Harp has a "Footpath closed" sign which is dutifully being disregarded by all comers on foot and cycle - funny that people think they should have access to a perfectly usable public path on a bank holiday weekend when no work is underway . There are no restrictions on the path from Denhall to Deeside.
The idea that the RSPB will be able to restrict the use of this path is laughable. The original road was built with public money across public land - I used to drive along it in the 1980s quite lawfully to get to Shotton Sailing Club and the only travesty is that it's taken this long to sort things out.


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## The Brewer (31 Mar 2013)

Watch out between Denhall lane and the Harp as their tarmacking there today (Easter Sunday , triple time) Monday and should finished Tuesday, so said the workmen.

Burton Point to Shotton is finished apart from the cattle grid at the start of Burton point. All restrictive signage seems to have been removed


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## dodgy (31 Mar 2013)

They were tarmaccing yesterday at about 10:30am between the Harp and Denhall, surprised to see them effectively render the pathway unusable over Easter holiday weekend.


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## neil_merseyside (31 Mar 2013)

They'd finished on the Harp stretch today (sunday afty) when I went through but you could see where bikes wheels had cut grooves in the fresh tar! I hope they are going to top dress it or it'll look awful!


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## The Brewer (31 Mar 2013)

Yeah the workman was quite apologetic about them working but with the recent weather understandable, they probably have jobs to do elsewhere in the coming weeks and the powers that be might of been applying pressure for a finish.

Wonder if there's a tape cutting ceremony???


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## The Brewer (31 Mar 2013)

neil_merseyside said:


> They'd finished on the Harp stretch today (sunday afty) when I went through but you could see where bikes wheels had cut grooves in the fresh tar! I hope they are going to top dress it or it'll look awful!


 
That was just the under coating they were applying today Neil


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## neil_merseyside (31 Mar 2013)

I've heard that a biking celebrity is being sought to do a tape cutting and that an official opening ceremony is unlikely to be before end May/early June, although the path will be legally open before then.


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## neil_merseyside (31 Mar 2013)

I thought it was the undercoat but it was a bit busy to stop and look. There'll be lots of bikes with heavy tyres for a while until the too comes off!


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## dodgy (31 Mar 2013)

Right, so now it's 'open', has it had any effect on your riding routes/habits? I went into Wales yesterday and it was nice to get to Flintshire without coming across any busy roads, even more so not to have to ride on any roads I'm overly familiar with (for that read bored - we aren't blessed with options getting off Wirral). On the way back of a 70 mile reasonably hilly ride, i was treated to almost 20 miles of completely traffic free path as I included the Wirral Way, if only the surface was as good as this new route. I don't bother with the bit between Denhall and the Harp, too many pedestrians.


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## The Brewer (1 Apr 2013)

It will encourage myself to use the Wirral way more, now that we have easy access from this side of the border.
I quite often pop in and have a cuppa with my Mum in Buckley and used to be put off dropping down to Deeside and over to the Wirral. Might even explore the east Wirral a bit more now and do the circular route


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## lejogger (1 Apr 2013)

The Sunlight still used the usual 'never ending lane' route from the mills to Llangollen yesterday... I guess we may use the new path when heading out on a more westerly ride however.


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## BikeLiker (1 Apr 2013)

dodgy said:


> Right, so now it's 'open', has it had any effect on your riding routes/habits? I went into Wales yesterday and it was nice to get to Flintshire without coming across any busy roads, even more so not to have to ride on any roads I'm overly familiar with (for that read bored - we aren't blessed with options getting off Wirral). On the way back of a 70 mile reasonably hilly ride, i was treated to almost 20 miles of completely traffic free path as I included the Wirral Way, if only the surface was as good as this new route. I don't bother with the bit between Denhall and the Harp, too many pedestrians.


Makes a nice Chester loop - out through Willaston / missing link / Greenway and back along river and across marshes. And N Wales of course.


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## dodgy (22 Apr 2013)

Latest news is that due to an apparent need to retain a 'rustic look' to the path, it's about to be recovered with a light gravel set into bitumen.

No, I'm not making this up. Time will tell how smooth the new path is, but I don't see how it can not deteriorate in quality with a covering of even 'light' gravel. Apparently, Sustrans have been consulted and approved it, so if turns out bad....

Shame.


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## dodgy (22 May 2013)

Gravelling has started. A real shame.


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## The Brewer (25 May 2013)

I was just going to comment on the gravel, I guess its supposed to slow cyclist down


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## neil_merseyside (4 Jun 2013)

Permissive signs are finally installed, so it's now legal from Harp end!


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