# PBP training



## Doo (19 Nov 2010)

Hi Forum Folks,

Thought I'd be brave and ask is anyone training for the PBP next year? What training does that involve? Done it before?

Horrors!

Doo


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## steveindenmark (20 Nov 2010)

Well I am totally new to Audax rides and I am also quite new to cycling.

Once I get a bike  I am going to start riding very gently and see how I go. If I like it I will increase my distances and see how I feel.

If I can do 100km without any problems then I will seriously start considering PBP for next year, bearing in mind I will have to complete all the qualifying distances as well.

My Baccchetta Giro 26 will arrive next week  

Steve


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## Doo (20 Nov 2010)

The shortest qualifying event is 200k!


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## ACS (20 Nov 2010)

This is the best place to start

Audax PBP

PBP website 

Or 

Ldn - Edn -Ldn


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## Ian H (20 Nov 2010)

Ride regularly, get an early season 100k next year, work up to 200, 300, etc. Mix shorter rides in with the qualifiers. Try to build speed so that you can comfortably finish within time. Above all, don't panic.


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## steveindenmark (21 Nov 2010)

I have recently joined Audax UK, even though I live in Denmark, I will also join the Danish Club.

The qualifying distances are: 200km, 300km, 400km and 600km. But not all Audax rides qualify for PBP so you need to check.

An experienced hand at PBP has advised me that the first thing you do is write a big *90 *on your hand. This is how many hours you have to do.

At the end of it you need to say I finished the PBP. Nobody cares how long it took as long as you did it in the time. He told me at the start they set of quicker than the tour de France but he looks at his hand and it say *90. *That is how long he has got, and that is how long he will take if he has to. The tortoise always catches the wannabee hares he says.

I have also been advised to plan more on comfort than speed because more drop out to discomfort than to not finishing in time. Obviously you do need to be aware of the speed.

I have a question about the longer rides where rest stops can be added.

Do you have to rest at designated stops or can you just pull over where you want to?

Steve


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## Ian H (21 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> The qualifying distances are: 200km, 300km, 400km and 600km. But not all Audax rides qualify for PBP so you need to check.



All qualifiers in the AUK calendar have "[PBP]" in the description.



> An experienced hand at PBP has advised me that the first thing you do is write a big *90 *on your hand. This is how many hours you have to do...
> ...I have also been advised to plan more on comfort than speed because more drop out to discomfort than to not finishing in time. Obviously you do need to be aware of the speed.



Yup. Riders who get carried away and rush off at the start are very likely to regret it later in the event.



> I have a question about the longer rides where rest stops can be added.
> 
> Do you have to rest at designated stops or can you just pull over where you want to?



As long as you stay within the max/min speed window you can stop wherever you like.


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## Lighthorse (21 Nov 2010)

The way I ride Audax is I aim to arrive at the first control 1/2 hour before it closes. Half an hour in case of a puncture. It might be less than 20 kmh average.
Then speed up as I warm up, finishing at about 21 kmh average.

I eat a lot before the ride and lots during the slow ride to the first control.


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## Doo (21 Nov 2010)

I do not understand the calender. For example the PBP website says a 200k has to be completed between feb 24th and april 22nd, however there are 200k events in the calender in Jan which say 200k [pbp].

Can anyone explain this discrepancy?

Cheers, Doo


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## Greenbank (21 Nov 2010)

Doo said:


> I do not understand the calender. For example the PBP website says a 200k has to be completed between feb 24th and april 22nd, however there are 200k events in the calender in Jan which say 200k [pbp].
> 
> Can anyone explain this discrepancy?



The dates are advisory. If it says [PBP] then it'll be a valid qualifying event.


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## steveindenmark (21 Nov 2010)

Yes those dates are just a hint to give you an idea what your schedule can be. Personally I will be trying to get them in well before the dates suggested, weather permitting.

We have not had much snow in Denmark as yet. But last year it started on December 17th and went on for 4 months.

It could end up being a very busy couple of months.

*Could we have a section dedicated just to PBP for this year Mr Administrator.

*Steve


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## Doo (21 Nov 2010)

Thanks Steve and Green, that has really helped clear things up!

Doo


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## steveindenmark (24 Nov 2010)

Doo,

if I were you I would do what I have just done and join Audax UK.

The magazine they send out is a really good read.

Steve


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## Doo (24 Nov 2010)

I am indeed a member of Audax Uk.  I cycled a 200k on saturday.... Ahh, I also feature in the latest arrivee magazine (just a pic doing the hay in a day 200)

Cheers,

Doo


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## steveindenmark (26 Nov 2010)

I have just found something else out....I think.

On these qualifying rides, if you have not done Audax before you must complete them in the correct order 200, 300, 400, 600.

I cannot do the 600, 200, 400, 300. Is that correct.

Was your 200 a qualifier for PBP Doo?

Steve


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## yello (26 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> *Could we have a section dedicated just to PBP for this year Mr Administrator.*



There's one over on YACF. Without disrespect to anyone here (there are some folk both here and there anyway), I'd recommend you check that out. Generally speaking, you get more/better advice there than here. Well, certainly more!


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## steveindenmark (26 Nov 2010)

yello said:


> There's one over on YACF. Without disrespect to anyone here (there are some folk both here and there anyway), I'd recommend you check that out. Generally speaking, you get more/better advice there than here. Well, certainly more!



I switch between the two as well Vello.

Steve


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## Doo (27 Nov 2010)

Hi, my 200k was not a qualifier. To my knowledge, no event in the UK is a qualifier until Jan 2011, and then only BRM events.

Cheers, Doo  

ps Am doing a 200k on dec 11th, but my first qualifier 200k is jan 22nd, all being well.


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## Ian H (28 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> I have just found something else out....I think.
> 
> On these qualifying rides, if you have not done Audax before you must complete them in the correct order 200, 300, 400, 600.
> 
> ...



You can do them in any order, and substitute shorter with longer. Just ensure they're marked "BRM [PBP]".


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## zigzag (28 Nov 2010)

a question for those who have gone through pbp registration before. let's say i've completed the qualifying events successfully. how do pbp organisers know about the rides that i've done? does the organiser of qualifying rides send them the list of the finishers (name and auk number), or is it for me to send them any forms or cards? thanks.


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## steveindenmark (28 Nov 2010)

zigzag said:


> a question for those who have gone through pbp registration before. let's say i've completed the qualifying events successfully. how do pbp organisers know about the rides that i've done? does the organiser of qualifying rides send them the list of the finishers (name and auk number), or is it for me to send them any forms or cards? thanks.



If you are an AUK member I think they can arrange the registration for you and if you have the handbook I think it explains it in there.

What is your cycling background ZigZag?

Steve


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## zigzag (28 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> If you are an AUK member I think they can arrange the registration for you and if you have the handbook I think it explains it in there.
> 
> What is your cycling background ZigZag?
> 
> Steve



if registration is arranged via auk, then it's good and convenient. regarding cycling background, i started commuting by bike 4 years ago, done couple of charity rides. then signed up for lel, realised during the ride that i'm not fit enough, but somehow managed to finish. then started riding longer distances, overnight rides, went to spinning classes once a week. now i'm in a good shape and can fit within audax time limits comfortably without overstretching myself. i also do a bit of running (5-10km/week), ran london marathon this year and got a place for next year.


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## Ian H (28 Nov 2010)

All BRM events worldwide are validated by Audax Club Parisien. If you've ever done a BRM, your name is in their list. 

Next year the registration process for PBP will be different. The details will be announced early in January. It'll be mostly online, but you'll probably still have to post physical documents to AUK.


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## andrew_s (28 Nov 2010)

Ian H said:


> steveindenmark said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot do the 600, 200, 400, 300. Is that correct.
> ...


You are still bound by the limiting dates for the various distances, and you can't count an event twice.
So you can't do a 600 in mid May and then a 400 in mid June because the 400 is after the 400 closing date, and if you count the 600 as a 400 you've missed on a qualifying 600 (assuming no other 600).


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## Ian H (28 Nov 2010)

andrew_s said:


> You are still bound by the limiting dates for the various distances, and you can't count an event twice.
> So you can't do a 600 in mid May and then a 400 in mid June because the 400 is after the 400 closing date, and if you count the 600 as a 400 you've missed on a qualifying 600 (assuming no other 600).




Sorry, but yes, you can. The distance windows are advisory only. ACP have made this explicit. The only thing you need to look for is the [PBP] tag.

(In previous years we have stuck to the windows, but quite possibly didn't need to).


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## steveindenmark (29 Nov 2010)

Ian H said:


> Sorry, but yes, you can. The distance windows are advisory only. ACP have made this explicit. The only thing you need to look for is the [PBP] tag.
> 
> (In previous years we have stuck to the windows, but quite possibly didn't need to).



I think you are correct Ian. On the PBP website it states:



The *recommended* planning for French organizers in 2011 is as follow : : 
BRM 200 km of February 24 to April 22
BRM 300 km of April 07 to May 20
BRM 400 km of April 28 to June 03
BRM 600 km of May 17 to June 17
I am sure I read somewhere that if you had not done an Audax ride in the past you had to do the rides in order, but if I did I cannot find it.

It makes sense for me to do them in the correct order for 2 reasons. It appears on most calendars that the 200 is ran first and second is that the furthest I have ever ridden is about 20 miles so I am not sure if I can drag myself to the end of 200km.

Steve


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## Ian H (29 Nov 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> I think you are correct Ian.



Just to make it absolutely plain, my advice is official. I am a member of the AUK committee.


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## ChuckoLotte (5 Dec 2010)

Good luck! Give it a try. I did a few brevets (my first) this year and enjoyed them a lot (the longest was 400k). There is a learning curve, however. It's not just a question of conditioning, but of following route sheets, optimum equipment, nutrition, night-riding, etc. Of course if you succeed in qualifying you will have sorted much of that out.


Doo said:


> Hi Forum Folks,
> 
> Thought I'd be brave and ask is anyone training for the PBP next year? What training does that involve? Done it before?
> 
> ...


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## ChuckoLotte (6 Dec 2010)

It sounds as tho you have a reasonable plan. Keep in mind however that the PBP organizers are anticipating receiving more entries in 2011 than the 5000 or so spaces they can handle. One result of this is they are staggering the entry submission dates for riders, depending on brevets they've completed in 2010. Generally riders who've done more brevets get to enter earlier than those who've done fewer. Once the limit is reached no more entries will be accepted. The process is more complicated than I've indicated but the point is that it's not as straightforward as doing the qualifying rides and sending off your application.
Enjoy your new bike!


steveindenmark said:


> Well I am totally new to Audax rides and I am also quite new to cycling.
> 
> Once I get a bike  I am going to start riding very gently and see how I go. If I like it I will increase my distances and see how I feel.
> 
> ...


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## Fiona N (6 Dec 2010)

I understood that there are national quotas and that in previous editions of the event, not all the UK quota has been filled.
Anyone like to comment?


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## Ian H (6 Dec 2010)

We'll know the exact quotas for les etrangers after the Jan 15th meeting in Paris. Our best guess is that the UK will be okay, but you never know.


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## Fiona N (7 Dec 2010)

I just ask as, having been moderately interested in doing the qualifications with mind to possibly riding the event, I managed to get my (highly competitive, Ironman-training) sister also interested. So I could be committed () by default. 

Sister also lives in warmer climes than the Lake District so could well have more clement qualifying events than the northern ones I was identifying - how unfair


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## steveindenmark (7 Dec 2010)

Just to be on the safe side I am a member of AudaxUK and also Audax Randonneurs Danmark. I will be submitting my cards to both groups. But even then there is no guarantee to get a place.

It is good to see the event is a success though.

Steve


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## BAGBOG (10 Dec 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> Well I am totally new to Audax rides and I am also quite new to cycling.
> 
> Once I get a bike  I am going to start riding very gently and see how I go. If I like it I will increase my distances and see how I feel.
> 
> ...



I have done 4 PBP and feel you need to start "training" 18 months before. The best preparation is to do what Auk call RRTY i.e. Randoneur Round the Year. That is do at least one 200k ride each month over a 12 month period. That will get you used to the distance in all weathers which is important. It makes sure your bike is up to the task as is your equipment, clothing and very importantly lighting. The longer qualifying distances will inform you how you like to ride, fast with long rests, fast with no rests, fast with short rests or slow with no rests. It is also when you should get your calorie intake correct. Find out what you tolerate long before you get to Paris. Oh, and finally get in as many hills as you can. Go to the Alps or Pyrenees. PBP is not Alpine but neither is it flat. Rolling would be a good description. Finally you will need a certain amount of luck. There are a multitude of reasons why people fail to get back to Paris. Most of them are fit enough, all of them have qualified but around 15% fail everytime.


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## Doo (10 Dec 2010)

I guess it's good news for UK folk that quota's have not been filled if we are looking for a place. I really want to enter PBP and hope this is possible, I cycled 9 audax events in the 2010 season but only one was 300k (my furthest) - wonder what my chances of getting a place are? Another 200k event planned tomorrow.

Doo


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## Ian H (10 Dec 2010)

BAGBOG said:


> I have done 4 PBP and feel you need to start "training" 18 months before. The best preparation is to do what Auk call RRTY i.e. Randoneur Round the Year. That is do at least one 200k ride each month over a 12 month period. That will get you used to the distance in all weathers which is important. It makes sure your bike is up to the task as is your equipment, clothing and very importantly lighting. The longer qualifying distances will inform you how you like to ride, fast with long rests, fast with no rests, fast with short rests or slow with no rests. It is also when you should get your calorie intake correct. Find out what you tolerate long before you get to Paris. Oh, and finally get in as many hills as you can. Go to the Alps or Pyrenees. PBP is not Alpine but neither is it flat. Rolling would be a good description. Finally you will need a certain amount of luck. There are a multitude of reasons why people fail to get back to Paris. Most of them are fit enough, all of them have qualified but around 15% fail everytime.



Good advice (and rather more than I generally do). 

I'm planning to be at the meeting when the quotas are announced. So let's wait and see.


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## steveindenmark (11 Dec 2010)

Thanks for that advice Bagbog.

Obviously starting training 18 months before is out of the window, but that would have been nice.

The first brevet held in Denmark is not until 2nd April. The reason behind that is because we can still be up to our heads in snow in May. That means doing one every month is not possible. The first one in Northern Germany that I can find is 5th March, for the same reason I would expect.

I set myself this challenge for 2011 fully knowing that it is going to be hard. But why would you set yourself easy challenges? I am going to take all the advice I can get from anywhere and then process it. If Audax riding riding is anything like motorbike touring I can imagine getting advice from people who have never been further than the end of the street, but swear the advice they are giving you is correct, because someone told them it was.

Thankfully you are not in this catagory Bagbog.

I have joined Audax Randonneurs danmark and they always take a good party to PBP and so hopefully they will be able to point me in the right direction.

My biggest problem at the moment is that my Bacchetta Giro 26 arrives next week and I have never ridden a 2 wheel recumbent, In fact I have never seen one up close, apparently they take a bit of getting used to.

I have got the winter to carry out lots of research as what I should be wearing, eating and sorting out on the bike but I know the only way I will get through this is to put the mileage in.

Another interesting sideline to this challenge is that I have started a Blog, which is another first for me as I am a total klutz when it comes to computers. My daughter said to me "Dad you are the only person I know who uses a pen and paper to write letters". I am only 52, she thinks I am a relic. The Blog will be an easy way for me to keep a record of the challenge. Maybe we will get a book out of it. Well if Andy Allsop can do it why can`t we all?

I do not know if this works but here is the link.

http://audaxvirgin.blogspot.com/

Steve


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## BAGBOG (12 Dec 2010)

steveindenmark said:


> Thanks for that advice Bagbog.
> 
> I have joined Audax Randonneurs danmark and they always take a good party to PBP and so hopefully they will be able to point me in the right direction.
> Steve




Steve, I must admit I have looked for the Danish contingent to ride with on each of the PBP I have been in. There is always a good crowd. They are excellent company and, in general, they ride very well as a group. They tend to look after each other. 

The advice I gave about RRTY would be ideal but if not possible then it can be done with determination on less. I did my first PBP in 1995 and had only ridden over 100 miles on one occasion before I started the qualifying events. So it can be done, it is just a little harder thats all. There is no substitute for hours on the bike because that is what PBP is about.

On most qualifying events I tend to ride alone. If I get company then it can be a bit of a bonus but on long rides it is very difficult to find a partner who will suit. Riding alone can give you a lot of inner strength and, for me, boosts self confidence. 

On something like PBP you, or your partner, will go through difficult times I prefer to go through these by myself. Company can help but it can also be detrimental. Some of my friends almost never ride alone because they need the support of others due to the perceived benefits of drafting behind them.

PBP is like no other ride. I tend to avoid the British group because I have been with them all year and I want PBP to be different hence I look for other nationalities to ride with, if I feel in need of company at any time. 

Obviously at night it can be better in a group because of the addition lights. Again I do not feel the need to be with anybody at night because I have managed to put a really good light system together. I can only remember it being out shone once in the last PBP.

The average PBP, for me, would see me riding alone for 80% of the time after the first night has split the big groups up. 

I have always ridden to Cahaix before resting which I do between 24 and 26 hours, generally. I have always booked a hotel, get there for about 12 midnight and sleep until 7 had breakfast and be on the road by 8. A nice trip to Brest then your on your way home with half the job done and loads of time left. It has worked for me everytime but will not suit everybody.


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## yello (12 Dec 2010)

BAGBOG said:


> The average PBP, for me, would see me riding alone for 80% of the time after the first night has split the big groups up.



I didn't think it was possible to ride alone on PBP! I thought the number of riders prevented that. At least, that was the impression I'd formed; stories of endless streams of rear red lights showing the path ahead etc!

But it pleases me to hear it can be done as, frankly, the number of riders on PBP actually puts me off the event. Like you, I ride alone. I prefer it (which is fortunate because, in reality, I have little choice!) This will be my first PBP (and so am looking for experienced comment) but I've ridden LEL and would agree that doing the preparatory rides alone was good practice; physically, comfort & equipment testing... AND mentally. You do learn to tough it out when needed. Even something simple like getting yourself up at 4am to do a DIY 300 is character building; when it'd be SO simple to go back to sleep because nobody (but you) gives a damn.

I hope you stick around on this forum and offer more insights. I know, come the time, I'm going to want to start thinking of loose strategy, and alternatives, for how I'm going to tackle PBP.


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## ChuckoLotte (13 Dec 2010)

Doo said:


> I guess it's good news for UK folk that quota's have not been filled if we are looking for a place. I really want to enter PBP and hope this is possible, I cycled 9 audax events in the 2010 season but only one was 300k (my furthest) - wonder what my chances of getting a place are? Another 200k event planned tomorrow.
> 
> Doo



There's some information regarding number of entrants, etc. in this article, also some other info re PBP-

http://janheine.word...ate-all-riders/


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## Ian H (13 Dec 2010)

yello said:


> I didn't think it was possible to ride alone on PBP!



It's easy enough, after the first few kms, not to be in a group. As the ride progresses it's quite easy not to see other riders for short periods, but they're never far away (unless you're off-course - I know this).


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