# Curb Pavement Cyclists!



## StuartG (5 Jun 2013)

This was made a priority at our local community assembly last night. Presumably by the people who parked outside ...







Oh, the irony ...


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## Spinney (5 Jun 2013)

Did you mention that at the meeting?


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## StuartG (5 Jun 2013)

Spinney said:


> Did you mention that at the meeting?


Nope. I'm carefully excluded from transport matters. Got form ...


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## Part time cyclist (18 Jul 2013)

My son was recently pulled by the police for riding on the pavement and told it was against the law to ride on the pavement, he took to the road as advised by the kind policeman..... 3 weeks later he was hit by a petrol tanker knocking him over the handlebars of his bike. Luckily he got away with just grazes, bruises ripped shorts and a knackered bike. He has now told me he is going to take his chances on the pavement from now on.....


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## Rob3rt (18 Jul 2013)

Part time cyclist said:


> My son was recently pulled by the police for riding on the pavement and told it was against the law to ride on the pavement, he took to the road as advised by the kind policeman..... 3 weeks later he was hit by a petrol tanker knocking him over the handlebars of his bike. Luckily he got away with just grazes, bruises ripped shorts and a knackered bike. He has now told me he is going to take his chances on the pavement from now on.....


 

This is an argument in favour of cycling on the pavement?


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## ufkacbln (18 Jul 2013)

We had a local Councillor who was an avid anti-cyclist and campaigned vigorously against cyclists on the pavement, especially children from the local school

So we went along to a local meeting with photographs of the endemic parking on pavements, including her family

We also had figures showing that in the local constituency, 4 children and three adults had been injured by either damage caused by cars on the pavement or being forced into the road by these cars


Her official answer was that cars need to park somewhere and that parking on the pavement was a necessity, whereas cycling on it was not

However she was less than impressed when the Police representative agreed to look into he matter and write to the residents concerned


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## ufkacbln (18 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> This is an argument in favour of cycling on the pavement?




In some cases - yes

If the local authority fails to maintain a safe road environment, then arguably a child riding responsibly on the pavement is a sensible option


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## TheDoctor (18 Jul 2013)

I can't get that worked up about it, TBH.
Happens all the time round here, and I've never heard of a pedestrian getting hit by a bike.


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## sheddy (18 Jul 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> This is an argument in favour of cycling on the pavement?


 
Why do people use the pavement ?
Because they are frightened to use the road. The authorities have let us down, they've failed to invest in safe cycling infrastructure and allowed the motor car to rule our lives.


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Jul 2013)

Pavement riding has become a high priority for local plod as a result of 'community pressure.'
When the local cycling community attempted to exert similar pressure about driving standards, speeding and pavement parking the local tory councillors tried to shut them (us) up and shout us down.
But it's ok for drunken bums to urinate and defecate in the street and shout abuse at passing women because that is not as high a priority as "the scourge of 'you lot' riding on the pavements."

somewhere along the way to "big society" the whole idea of society got corrupted.


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## GrumpyGregry (18 Jul 2013)

2554991 said:


> Do remember that these people are really strugging to accept the concept of society at all.


Of course. What Dave meant to say was "Big Disassociation" where "people like us" make the decisions and people like those ghastly sorts on bicycles simply tug the forelocks to their betters in gratitude for being spared the birch.


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## MontyVeda (18 Jul 2013)

StuartG said:


> This was made a priority at our local community assembly last night. Presumably by the people who parked outside ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
the road doesn't look that wide so parking partly on the pavement makes sense... and there seems to be adequate room for a double buggy by those steps, so is there really an issue here? or any irony?

as for pavement cycling... I do it when appropriate. That is to say, I don't weave in and out of peds, I ride on wide or unused sections of pavement if it's preferable to riding on the road next to it.. shame on me.

of course there are those who cycle on the pavement and don't give a toss about weaving in and out of peds, close passes or even riding in an intimidating manner.. shame on them.


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## summerdays (18 Jul 2013)

sheddy said:


> Why do people use the pavement ?


 
Sometimes it is because the pavement goes the way they want to go. There used to be a bit in Bristol where there was a one way system that went up and down hill (the longer sides of the triangle), if you just wanted to go straight on. Now (well a number of years ago), they made a cycle contraflow/bus lane along the bottom of the hill. Or a place where I ride on the grass rather than do 2 right turns through 2 sets of traffic lights (of which both will be red), and it is a much shorter route.


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## Shut Up Legs (18 Jul 2013)

sheddy said:


> Why do people use the pavement ?
> Because they are frightened to use the road. The authorities have let us down, they've failed to invest in safe cycling infrastructure and allowed the motor car to rule our lives.


Exactly the same over here, and for the same reasons. I have no problem with adults doing it, provided they ride reasonably carefully.


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## glasgowcyclist (19 Jul 2013)

Pavements are for pedestrians.

In my experience, adult cyclists using pavements aren't doing so through fear but through laziness where they value their own convenience (doging traffic lights, one-way streets etc) over everyone else's.


GC


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jul 2013)

I believe the same adults who pavement cycle are the same adults who RLJ.


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## MontyVeda (19 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> I believe the same adults who pavement cycle are the same adults who RLJ.


wrong.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jul 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> wrong.


No. I definitely do believe that. 

And it ain't blind faith, I've seen it often enough.


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## summerdays (19 Jul 2013)

GregCollins said:


> No. I definitely do believe that.
> 
> And it ain't blind faith, I've seen it often enough.


 
I admit to the occasional small pavement cycling, an alleyway to cut through between two roads (avoids a longer route using main roads, and hills), across a pavement at the end of cycling on the common etc. (Probably adds up to a total of 30 metres max for any one day). I don't choose to go on the pavement normally as the road is usually far quicker and safer. However I don't jump red lights.


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## potsy (19 Jul 2013)

summerdays said:


> However I don't jump red lights.


According to Greg you do


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## veloevol (20 Jul 2013)

It's probably illegal but I also cycle on the pavement but only when carrying my child. Which I do often through the week on the school run. My default speed is very slow, try not to cycle too close to people and to stop to let children or the elderly pass us.

Guess I'd call this shared-space considerate-cycling. 

Not at all sure if it is truly illegal or not.


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## MontyVeda (20 Jul 2013)

veloevol said:


> It's probably illegal but I also cycle on the pavement but only when carrying my child. Which I do often through the week on the school run. My default speed is very slow, try not to cycle too close to people and to stop to let children or the elderly pass us.
> 
> Guess I'd call this *shared-space considerate-cycling*.
> 
> Not at all sure if it is truly illegal or not.


 
Exactly! All too often one mentions pavement cycling and some have a vision of innocent pedestrians jumping out of the path of a weaving and winding bicycle in fear of their lives... but that is not the reality of my pavement cycling.

Technically it is illegal... but i've read _on the internet_, that the police are advised to only tackle pavement cyclists who are causing a nuisance to others... even if that is the case, there's still going to be the odd jumped up plod who'll disregard this (possibly fictitious) advice for no other reason than slapping an FPN on somebody just because they can... proceed with caution and check for the plod first is my advice.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Jul 2013)

2557609 said:


> And they all wear hi-viz and helmets.


You may believe that. I don't. 

Besides hi-viz doth offend mine eye.


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## fabregas485 (20 Jul 2013)

I had to go pass a red light onto a pavement on Thursday on my cycle home from work as someone coming up behind me did not look like they would stop in time.


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## steve52 (20 Jul 2013)

im a pav ement cyclist! that said its when leading three special needs lads on there bikes, out rules are follow me and give way to any peds.this keeps them alive why en rount to our nearest off road sustrans route.its not cycling on the pavement that is a prob, but doing it inapropriately,and without due care and concideration.when they are able we will move onto roads,(we are on quite one allready)


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## jack shepherd (20 Jul 2013)

im also a pavement cyclist, as i get scared riding on roads, but i always make sure that i give way or hop onto the road when i approach pedestrians, sometimes they stop and move over to one side, if they do i usually speed up to not waste their time and i always thank them


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## cyclewick (22 Jul 2013)

People who are considerate on the pavement and cycle with care, thats totally fine.. what I dont agree with is the people on bmx's pushing 15 mph weaving inbetween prams etc


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## jack shepherd (22 Jul 2013)

cyclewick said:


> People who are considerate on the pavement and cycle with care, thats totally fine.. what I dont agree with is the people on bmx's pushing 15 mph weaving inbetween prams etc


i remember one time i pulled over onto the grass to let a young family go by only to have 2 bmx'ers rush by me almost taking out the little girl by the pram, im 16 but i still respect the rules of the paths


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## cyclewick (22 Jul 2013)

jack shepherd said:


> i remember one time i pulled over onto the grass to let a young family go by only to have 2 bmx'ers rush by me almost taking out the little girl by the pram, im 16 but i still respect the rules of the paths


 i'm 16 aswell, and when I used to ride on the pavement people I felt like i had to set a example to people who are actually older and still ride carelessly, at the end of the day, they will end up the one getting into trouble when they skim past someone who is not in a good mood


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## jack shepherd (22 Jul 2013)

cyclewick said:


> i'm 16 aswell, and when I used to ride on the pavement people I felt like i had to set a example to people who are actually older and still ride carelessly, at the end of the day, they will end up the one getting into trouble when they skim past someone who is not in a good mood


yer good point, the only thing that really annoys me is that when the pavement is split for walkers and cyclists, sometimes i will be riding along in the cycle lane and a group of people or a family will be spread out over both paths and they will see me coming and it is only at the last minute that they will give me a little room ( right on the edge of the path) to get by. i dont expect them to just walk on their side but it would be nice to let cyclists use the whole cyclist lane.


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## cyclewick (22 Jul 2013)

jack shepherd said:


> yer good point, the only thing that really annoys me is that when the pavement is split for walkers and cyclists, sometimes i will be riding along in the cycle lane and a group of people or a family will be spread out over both paths and they will see me coming and it is only at the last minute that they will give me a little room ( right on the edge of the path) to get by. i dont expect them to just walk on their side but it would be nice to let cyclists use the whole cyclist lane.


 
That's the otherside of the knife, pedestrians who need to be a bit more weary of cyclists, some people dont even look left and right at a cycle path and just walk out with their family, which is why i always focus when im on a cycle lane, you never know when someones going to walk out or a kid will edge into the path. And if somebody walks out in front of me i'm usually quite polite, I find that they then remember about the cycle path


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## jack shepherd (22 Jul 2013)

cyclewick said:


> That's the otherside of the knife, pedestrians who need to be a bit more weary of cyclists, some people dont even look left and right at a cycle path and just walk out with their family, which is why i always focus when im on a cycle lane, you never know when someones going to walk out or a kid will edge into the path. And if somebody walks out in front of me i'm usually quite polite, I find that they then remember about the cycle path


 
very good point


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## Sham69 (24 Jul 2013)

Rarely do I cycle on the pavement. The only time has been when traffic lights at the end of a particular bus lane don't respond to me and my bicycle. I guess the lights only change when an in-built detection system 'sees' a large lump of metal (i.e. a bus) and that ain't me. I sat there like a pratt for minutes the first time, before giving up and bumping up the kerb for the final 30 metres of my journey. I dismount and walk the bike if there are any pedestrians nearby.

We surely all know of sections of road that feel dangerous to cycle on. What's the harm in using the pavement provided it's pedestrian free at the time (as it invariably is round these parts, no-one walks anymore).


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## ufkacbln (24 Jul 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> Exactly! All too often one mentions pavement cycling and some have a vision of innocent pedestrians jumping out of the path of a weaving and winding bicycle in fear of their lives... but that is not the reality of my pavement cycling.
> 
> Technically it is illegal... but i've read _on the internet_, that the police are advised to only tackle pavement cyclists who are causing a nuisance to others... even if that is the case, there's still going to be the odd jumped up plod who'll disregard this (possibly fictitious) advice for no other reason than slapping an FPN on somebody just because they can... proceed with caution and check for the plod first is my advice.


 

The advice was from the then Home Office Minister Paul Boateng

The Government had introduced spot fines for cycling on the pavement, but Boateng's statement was:



> "The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users. "Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."


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## jonesy (24 Jul 2013)

Come on User, surely you know that standards are higher than ever? The exam results say so...


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## aces_up1504 (24 Jul 2013)

Is some going to tell me that my near 4 year old can not ride his bike with stabilisers on, that he should ride on the road doing 1-2mph? 

Obviously no one would put in a child in that situation.

I think there should be a balence point: Children under a certain age say 10 to 12 should be allowed to use the pavement. Then on it should be expected a person on a bike should use the road. Nothing worse than seeing a 20-30sum person riding on a pavement when there is road empty next to them.


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## aces_up1504 (24 Jul 2013)

User said:


> I refer you to post #39...


 


But in the eyes of the law they could still give a spot penalty if they so wished. So what's you point?

But the main aim of my post should be that it should be legal for young children to use the pavement and not require discretion.


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## Richard Mann (24 Jul 2013)

You can't give an FPN to anyone under 16, IIRC.

The German situation is different - under 8 you "have" to ride on the pavement, age 8-12 you have the choice, age 12+ you have to ride on the road. The level of enforcement is about the same as the UK, but at least they don't rely on an 1835 Act about driving horses & carriages!


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## aces_up1504 (24 Jul 2013)

Richard Mann said:


> You can't give an FPN to anyone under 16, IIRC.
> 
> The German situation is different - under 8 you "have" to ride on the pavement, age 8-12 you have the choice, age 12+ you have to ride on the road. The level of enforcement is about the same as the UK, but at least they don't rely on an 1835 Act about driving horses & carriages!


 


Sounds very sensible


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