# Why am I not losing weight?



## BintanMan (17 May 2011)

Afternoon all,

I've just come back from a nice 18-miler during my lunch break. I'll best honest - I wasn't going to go at all after weighing myself yesterday. Basically I am about the same weight I was before I started - 17st. This is the start of my 4th week 'proper' cycling, going out four times a week and slowly building my mileage up to 85 miles last week (long 27 miler Sunday). Ok so 27 miles doesn't seem like far, but to me it was a good slog especially in a westerly headwind for the WHOLE RIDE. It felt great afterwards though.

Ok let's get to it - weight loss. My biggest vice is sugar. I can go without butter and fats generally. In fact I hate butter in sandwiches. I gave up Coke totally and pretty much drink tap water. I still take 2 sugars in my coffee and probably have 2-3 cups a day. I like to think my diet is balanced - breakfast can be either cerel with a banana or dry toast with tinned tomatoes with brown sauce or porridge. Lunch can be a wrap or sandwich (tuna salad my fave) or Rivita with homous. Dinner is usually pasta because the kids love it. I tend not to snack, but if I do it's usually more Rivita. I crave chocolate but resist.

On rides I have noticed my heart rate has stopped fluctuating so much. It used to settle around 150-160 but now I've seen it come down to 135-140 on flat. The 27-miler my HRM said I burned 1600 calories (2hr10min. My 18-miler today it said 700 (55 minutes). This is a typical mid-week ride.

What adjustments can I make? I will admit my clothes fit better and I feel fitter running up and down stairs and I feel less tired in the evenings.

Thanks in advance,

Bin


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## SquareDaff (17 May 2011)

I'm no exercise/cycling guru but I do know that after only 4 weeks you're likely to be still changing body composition (i.e. losing fat and gaining muscle mass). Your diet seems much healthier than mine and you do about the same distances. I've just started to notice that the waist on my trousers is starting to feel a little big. And ultimately that's all I'm really bothered about. I feel fitter, my resting heart rate has plummetted and I'm losing weight in the area I know fat usual collects (on me anyway). Whether my weight fit's in a certain column on some beraucrats "Are you obese" chart doesn't really interest me as I know they're generalisations and not really worth the paper they're written on. Just keep at it and the benefits will come!


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## tyred (17 May 2011)

Be careful with breakfast cereals. Some can be ludicrously high in calories, and not always the ones you suspect.

It will take time, and you've only being doing this for three and bit weeks if I read your post correctly.

Someone smarter than me will explain all the numbers but I think you need to budget 50 calories a mile for normal cycling. In order to lose weight, you need to eat less than you burn, it's as simple as that in theory, but, as I know only too well in practice, it can be difficult. The other thing is that as you build up your cycling, your muscles will build and that weighs more than fat. It's possible to become very lean and still weigh enough to put yourself into the obese category on the BMI scale. The fact that your clothes fit better suggests you've made some progress imo. The fact that you feel better is more important than anything else.


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## amaferanga (17 May 2011)

Are you using a calorie calculator and weighing your food? If not then you should. How many grams of porridge do you have? How many slices of toast? How many grams of pasta? What do you have with the pasta?

Also, take the calorie estimate from your HRM with a HUGE pinch of salt. 27 miles in over 2 hours is very unlikely to burn 1600kcal. If you assume you're burning 500kcal/hour cycling then you probably won't be too far off (it may be an underestimate, but its very unlikely to be an overestimate).


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## Panter (17 May 2011)

I struggled in exactly the same way as you have done.
The only solution (for me) is very, very careful calorie counting. Buy some decent kitchen scales, and carefully log everything you consume, and also the exercise you do.
As long as you burn more than you put in, you'll lose weight.

I very nearly jacked the whole thing in myself a few weeks back after exercising hard for a week, eating very little, and actually gained weight!
It's only be meticulous logging of everything that you identify the problem (in my experience.)

There's lots of free websites that you can log everything on and if you're lucky enough to have a smartphone there's plenty of apps that will sync your data with their relevant website, immensely useful for logging calories when out & about.

The problem when you start cycling regularly (and for ever after




) is that you get immensely hungry and your body will try to compensate for that with extra hunger.
Good luck! and stick with it. Get it right and it WILL work





There's a very useful, and motivational weightwatchers thread at the top, maybe get involved with that?

Once again, good luck





EDIT: Cross posted with amaferanga


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## JamesMorgan (17 May 2011)

The key equation is energy intake < energy expenditure. Your cycling activity is excellent and will increase your fitness (as you are noticing), however, unless you are monitoring your energy intake you may not lose weight. Eating a well balanced diet is important for your general health but if you eat too much food you won't lose weight. Someone recently did an experiment showing that counting calories but eating only junk food was just as likely to lose weight as doing the same with a balanced diet. I can understand that lots of people don't want to spend their whole time getting obsessive about counting calories, but it is surprising how easy it is to eat over 2000 calories a day. I suggest you try to keep a food diary for a week in which you count total calories consumed. Pay particular attention to food high in calories (especially bread, pasta, rice, cereals, cheese). Alcohol and sugar are also big offenders - ideally cut out both completely.

Finally your body will resist losing weight - it does this by making you feel hunger. This is a good sign, however, if you don't feel hungry most of the day the chances are that you may not be losing much weight.

EDIT: Cross posted with lots of other posters!!


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## numbnuts (17 May 2011)

Throw the scales away,_ (well don't look at them,)_ and do longer rides 30 miles plus then you will notice a weight loss, short rides are OK to keep you in trim, but for weight loss high mileage counts well it works for me


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## coffeejo (17 May 2011)

Muscle weighs more than fat so if the scales say the same but your clothes fit better, then rest assured that you're doing all the right things.


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## srw (17 May 2011)

Here are some rough guesses as to your calorific intake, assuming that you are keeping to fairly small portions

Breakfast - 300 calories, unless you have a very large bowl of cereal, in which case it might get up to 400
Lunch - 400 calories, assuming you have tuna without mayo
Dinner - 400 calories, assuming you're having a healthy low-cal sauce and a medium-sized bowl of pasta
Total - 1100 calories per day

When you start calorie-counting (a good thought) you _may_ discover that you are severely undereating. That in itself will restrict weight loss, as your body goes into starvation mode. A 17-stone man who is taking regular exercise should be eating about 2100-2200 calories to maintain decent weight loss. I recently started losing weight again after a depressingly long hiatus by starting to eat more.

The general recommendation for weight loss is to eat a balanced reasonably low-fat diet, to keep portion sizes small and to snack regularly.


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## 4F (17 May 2011)

coffeejo said:


> Muscle weighs more than fat so if the scales say the same but your clothes fit better, then rest assured that you're doing all the right things.




How does 1lb muscle weigh more than 1lb of fat ?


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## ianrauk (17 May 2011)

4 weeks is not a lot of time to notice weight loss.
Keep cycling regularly (push yourself) and eat sensibly and the weight will come off.


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## BSRU (17 May 2011)

4F said:


> How does 1lb muscle weigh more than 1lb of fat ?



They should have written muscle is more dense, 1 litre of muscle weighs more than 1 litre of fat.


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## BSRU (17 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Afternoon all,
> 
> I've just come back from a nice 18-miler during my lunch break. I'll best honest - I wasn't going to go at all after weighing myself yesterday. Basically I am about the same weight I was before I started - 17st. This is the start of my 4th week 'proper' cycling, going out four times a week and slowly building my mileage up to 85 miles last week (long 27 miler Sunday). Ok so 27 miles doesn't seem like far, but to me it was a good slog especially in a westerly headwind for the WHOLE RIDE. It felt great afterwards though.
> 
> ...



If you drink alcohol, stop drinking alcohol, lots of empty calories and can result in eating foods full of calories. If I've learnt anything from watching weight loss TV programmes, apart from don't watch them, it is alcohol is not good for loosing weight, unless your a wino.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 May 2011)

Give it a year. and apply a rule of thumb, one third of your wieght loss will come via exercise, two thirds will come from reducing your calorific intake. Or as Minnie Driver once put it 'eat less food, move about more' a gross oversimplification but with much truth at the core. You have to force your body to consume itself rather than supply it with external energy. The trick is to do it in such a way that you don't consume muscle rather than fat, yes that happens, esp if exercising a lot, and to do it in a way so you replace one set of eating habits with another so the weight stays off.

Beer (and other alcohol) and cheese undo it for me, every time. In the last 10 years my weight has zigzaged from 17.5 st to 14.5st to 16st to 15st to 16.5st and is currently stuck, glowering at me, at 15.5st. But I rode one hundred miles on Saturday and ran 6km on Sunday morning despite being at least 1.5 stone above my 'ideal' weight. I look ridiculous in lycra, thin face, thin arms, thin legs, well padded rotund belly and moobs my daughter is jealous of.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> If you drink alcohol, stop drinking alcohol, lots of empty calories and can result in eating foods full of calories. If I've learnt anything from watching weight loss TV programmes, apart from don't watch them, it is alcohol is not good for loosing weight, unless your a wino.




Some where I have a link to a decent nutritionalist who claims 2 units of alcohol in 24 hours also supresses your body's fat burning system for 3 days.....

Booze is a potential double whammy.


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## SquareDaff (17 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> They should have written muscle is more dense, 1 litre of muscle weighs more than 1 litre of fat.


I can't remember the unit of volume used and it's been a long while since O'Level Biology but I seem to remember the same volume of muscle to fat having a ratio of 37/14. Of course it's been a long while and I could be talking absolute rot!


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## BSRU (17 May 2011)

GregCollins said:


> Some where I have a link to a decent nutritionalist who claims 2 units of alcohol in 24 hours also supresses your body's fat burning system for 3 days.....
> 
> Booze is a potential double whammy.



Two units, that's less than half a can of special brew.

That means a Saturday night tipple of what ever you fancy affects the body until Tuesday evening.


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## BintanMan (17 May 2011)

Wow - some fantastic responses so far!

Firstly alcohol - I sound boring but I really don't drink much. But can I assume wine is better than beer? The occasional trip to the pub on a Friday has been known with the good weather.

Secondly - I'm beginning to think I'm eating big portions. I didn't want to go down the 'weighing' route but I might start by being conscious of portion sizes. With cereal I tend to stick to Shreddies, but I prefer to steer away from cereal and go for the dry toast and tomatoes (my current favourite) or porridge (with honey  ).

As most have said I do get very hungry after rides, especially longer ones. What is the best thing to eat after a ride?

I am slightly limited with longer rides because my family come first. I have 3.5 year old twin boys who take up a LOT of time at weekends so early mornings and evenings are my only option, but it's unfair on my wife to expect her to do all the housework when the kids are in bed - she deserves some time as well!

Anyhow, lots of stuff here. I'll crack on and try to stay motivated.


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## GrumpyGregry (17 May 2011)

BintanMan. Eat off smaller plates, and no seconds, a great way to control portion sizes.


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## Globalti (17 May 2011)

Evening snacking is always my undoing. I deal with it by flossing my teeth after supper, which stops me raiding the fridge. Mostly.

My best weight loss ever was this Feb/March when I gave up carbs almost completely, eating only fish, meat and salads. For about a month I had a strange fatty buttery taste in my mouth, which somebody said is common amongst people on the Atkins diet.


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## BSRU (17 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Wow - some fantastic responses so far!
> 
> Firstly alcohol - I sound boring but I really don't drink much. But can I assume wine is better than beer? The occasional trip to the pub on a Friday has been known with the good weather.
> 
> ...



I drink very little also, sometimes going for months without alcohol.

Don't worry about your longer rides, you've already cycled a longer distance than I have done this year. I only cycle when I am commuting now about 40km a day, like you I have family commitments but I cannot do any riding at the weekend.

You could always try to keep a food diary, you might spot something that needs to be cut out.

You could always try some running, uses far more calories than cycling for the same amount of time, although personally I cannot stand running.


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## coffeejo (17 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> They should have written muscle is more dense, 1 litre of muscle weighs more than 1 litre of fat.


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## BintanMan (17 May 2011)

Yeah seconds is a killer with kids in the house. Don't you just find that, with certain foods, you could just eat until you pop? My wife makes an awesome tuna/pasta bake and I really have to restrain from that.

I'm cool with evening snacking. My other hobby is playing the guitar so I can usually stay away from trouble by doing that.

I do find bulking out meals with veg helps a lot. Last night I made gnocchi in a tomato sauce with garlic and basil, but I did less gnocchi and loads of broccoli. Definitely helped but having the veg in the house isn't always the case, whereas having 'stock' stuff like pasta, tinned toms is always there. Another thing is - I really hate waste but I never know how much my kids are going to eat. I do try to put things in the fridge for the next day whenever I can.

Sounds like a bit more restraints with the portions is in order, and bulking out with more veg. Love fruit as well, but I suspect some will be full of sugar.


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## SquareDaff (17 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Love fruit as well, but I suspect some will be full of sugar.


Not the ones you'd think I suspect. Remember seeing a quiz show where you had to guess the sugar content of various bits of fruit from lowest to highest. I got it totally wrong and so did the guy playing!


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## coffeejo (17 May 2011)

My newly discovered trick with pasta are frozen peppers and mushrooms. A large handful of each bulks it out beautifully.


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## BintanMan (17 May 2011)

BSRU said:


> I drink very little also, sometimes going for months without alcohol.
> 
> Don't worry about your longer rides, you've already cycled a longer distance than I have done this year. I only cycle when I am commuting now about 40km a day, like you I have family commitments but I cannot do any riding at the weekend.
> 
> ...




Yeah I should have mentioned I used to run a lot. When I turned 30 I was 19st (in 2001). In 2003 I ran the London Marathon and 2006 the Amsterdam (<4 hrs). I got down to about 14.5st then but when the kids came along I went back to my old ways, hence here I am now trying something new!

Running is hard though. You need at least 6-8 weeks to even get to the point of enjoying it and getting into the 'zone'. I have found cycling much easier and I really do enjoy it more than running because you can cover greater distances quickly and you don't really need to be that fit to enjoy it. Maybe my memories of running 40 miles/week and shedding weight easily are still fresh.


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## JamesMorgan (17 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Firstly alcohol - I sound boring but I really don't drink much. But can I assume wine is better than beer? The occasional trip to the pub on a Friday has been known with the good weather.






A glass of wine is roughly the same as half a pint of beer (or cider). A lower calorie option is gin and tonic (as long as you use low calorie tonic). I find the big problem with alcohol is not the calories in it, but that it gives you the munchies so you end up eating lots of junk food afterwards. As with any diet it needs to be workable in the long-term so no need for complete abstinence. If you already drink little alcohol you seem to have that in control.


If you are concerned that portion sizes are too large, weigh your typical meals to see how many calories are in them and then adjust down to give you the amount of calories you are aiming for (500-700 calories in a meal is a good target). You only need to do this once to work out what a typical meal should look like.


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## Angelfishsolo (17 May 2011)

I have been where you are. Keep one thing in mind. Muscle is heavier than fat. Just weighing yourself is not enough. Take measurements of your waist and neck say once a week. If the diameter is getting smaller you are loosing weight. Also as others have said you have not been at it that long and it will take time for you metabolism to adjust. At the start of this year I had gone upto 18 stone as I had had a 7 month lay off after a GBH (with intent) assault upon me. I am now around 15.7 / 16 stone


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## zacklaws (17 May 2011)

coffeejo said:


> Muscle weighs more than fat so if the scales say the same but your clothes fit better, then rest assured that you're doing all the right things.



The correct way to state that muscle weighs more than fat is, "Muscle is heavier by volume than fat."


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## ColinJ (17 May 2011)

zacklaws said:


> The correct way to state that muscle weighs more than fat is, "Muscle is heavier by volume than fat."


Or as BSRU wrote in post #12 - "more dense"!


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## coffeejo (17 May 2011)

Now you all sound like my school maths teachers!


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## Ajay (17 May 2011)

Angelfishsolo said:


> I have been where you are. Keep one thing in mind. Muscle is heavier than fat. Just weighing yourself is not enough.



Agreed, your weight is just a blunt statistic, don't get hung up about it.
You didn't put your 17st in context with your height, build and goals. Sure, if you want to road race and compete you will need to loose weight, but if you want to do great rides and enjoy yourself then its not compulsory.
I've carried 17st (6'2")across the Raid Pyreneen, up the Ventoux etc. I'm not built like a "proper cyclist" - not all of us are - sure I'm carrying a bit more fat than I should, but I have non-cycling muscles that I dont particulary want to loose!
You're only a month in, as your muscles get stronger your metabolism should increase, so if you engage common sense with your calorie intake you'll have a virtuous circle which should see some weight come off, but more importantly, your body fat % will go down, your body shape will change and you'll be a stronger rider.


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## Nebulous (17 May 2011)

I lost a pound a week for over a year - without counting calories or weighing anything. I did it by being disciplined about my eating habits and watching out for compensating in other ways - reduce your lunch for instance and you will find yourself taking bigger portions in the evening. I ate less Monday to Friday and a bit more at the weekend to try and stop my metabolism slowing down. I reached a point where I reckoned I could 'feel' when I was running a calorie deficit and burning fat. 

I also drink a lot of water, particularly in the evening. Probably the biggest change I made was eating fruit at lunchtime. For about 20 years at lunchtime I bought sandwiches or hot food in colder weather from local shops. Our local convenience store started selling 5 items of fruit for a pound and I have eaten that just about every lunchtime - unless I have a lunchtime meeting, for the past 14 months.


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## screenman (17 May 2011)

I was 16 stone last year I am now 12.5 stone and a lot fitter. I used the Mydailyplate option on the Livestrong site and it really helped me a lot. Understanding how much I was eating and the amount of calories was a great help.

That fact is I always ate far more than I admitted to myself or even knew about. How did I end up that big easily I ate far more calories than I needed to each day. Up to 10 years ago I was racing 10 months of the year along with plenty of training miles, during this time I could eat without putting on the weight, then along came 9 years without riding but still eating the same. Truth is I ended up a big fat unhealthy git, never again.

I am now 55 and feel more like 40, last year I was 54 and felt like 60.

Nebulous, that is a fantastic achievement and one I hope you are proud of, just imagine getting up in the morning picking up 25 bags of sugar or a 5 gallon container of water and carrying it around all day, this is how I mark what I have lost.


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## Panter (18 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Wow - some fantastic responses so far!
> Secondly - I'm beginning to think I'm eating big portions. I didn't want to go down the 'weighing' route but I might start by being conscious of portion sizes. With cereal I tend to stick to Shreddies, but I prefer to steer away from .



If you've got the discipline then cutting down portion sizes is definitely less of a faff, but don't dismiss the food weighing if smaller portions don't work for you.
As I say, your thread just caught my eye with your comments about giving up on it as it's exactly how I felt!
In fact, I think I scoffed crisps all weekend in protest after that little knock back






The food weighing is a bit of a chore but you don't have to do it for long as you quickly learn what "correct" portion sizes look like.
Saying that, I need to start again in earnest as I've been getting lazy with it, once again, and it's the ONLY thing that's worked well for me so far in all my Years battling the bulge!

Keep us posted





EDIT: Forgot to add, I'm not personally convinced that sugar is that big a deal (and I'm fully prepared to be shot down in flames here)
I can't really back that up with proven links or anything, but from everything I've seen so far, carb calories seem to promote far more weight gain than sugar calories so I would personally concentrate more on those than the sugar in your drinks (My personal opinion only)


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## BintanMan (18 May 2011)

I quite like the look of the OnMyPlate App (that I just downloaded on my Blackberry). Being a bit of a geek as well (not obsessive mind) this might work because I have my Blackberry all the time. Nice.

'Habit' is the key word for me I think. I also think meal planning is a good idea because both my wife & I get lazy at dinnertime. We both work full time so it's the last thing on our mind during the day and we generally end up with 'pasta & x' or 'rice & y'. We do get a veg box delivered each week, but most of it gets wasted if I'm honest. It's silly really because since we've had kids we batch cook for them and freeze (soup, pasta sauce, chicken curry, bolognese, fish fingers, chicken nuggets (yes we make our own!)) and don't bother for ourselves. Time for a change I think.

Loads to think about. Thanks again for all the replies.


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## tyred (18 May 2011)

I will highlight the point about drinking a lot of water. We can be thirsty and think we are hungry. Before a meal, drink half a pint of water and you will probably find you eat less.

I had lost 4 stone without calorie counting or cutting out anything, just eating more of the healthy foods I like and less of the unhealthy foods but not really denying myself anything. This was before I got back into cycling and I was walking 4 miles a day at a very brisk pace. I have put on some weight this year again but I'm going to make a real effort to lose it from now on. I do suffer from a sweet tooth and a love of Coke and similar drinks and without realising it, I had let my intake creep up to my old level. I know what I need to reduce!


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## BintanMan (18 May 2011)

I registered on the LiveStrong web site for the OnMyPlate stuff. I also looked at some of the recipes and forums, but I hate the US 'cup' measuring system arrghhhh  I understand the benefits (no weighing) but it's backward even compared to lb and oz! I have actually managed to go metric and using the cup system just doesn't compute.

Ho hum


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## Panter (18 May 2011)

A lot of them use the cup system, very annoying!
I used to the the myplate app on iphone, but they don't do an android version.
The one I use now is called "myfitnesspal" or something like that, it's just as guilty of using cup measurements but also has a fair few conventional weights as well as a barcode scanner which is of some use.
The most useful thing though is the quick add calories only feature, where you just enter the calories you've consumed as all products have them listed on the packaging now anyway and you can quickly calculate by weight.
The myplate app didn't have that function, but I think it may be something they introduced after I stopped using it?


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## benb (18 May 2011)

As others have said, in order to lose weight you have to set up a calorie deficit.

An average man, without taking excercise into account, should consume about 2,500kcal a day to stay at the same weight. A 500kcal reduction in intake will translate roughly to 1lb weight loss a week, but it will fluctuate. You don't really want to lose more than 1-2lb a week or you'll get ill. So you can either eat 500-1000kcal less, or do exercise amounting to 500-1000kcal, or ideally a combination. 

It's worth bearing in mind that shorter rides more often will probably give you more consistent weight loss that longer rides infrequently. I cycle to work every day, but it's only 10k each way and takes me 30-40 mins. I reckon that's about 500-600kcal daily. I don't get to go on longer rides very often, only once or twice a month. Nevertheless I have lost 1.5st since the beginning of the year, which I'm happy with. 

I am 6'3". I was 16st 11lb at the beginning of the year, and right now I'm 15st 3lb. I aim to be a whisker over 14st by the end of the year, and then maintain that.

I wouldn't worry about not seeing much weight loss after only a few weeks, it can take a month or two for it to become apparent.


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## Nebulous (18 May 2011)

screenman said:


> I was 16 stone last year I am now 12.5 stone and a lot fitter. I used the Mydailyplate option on the Livestrong site and it really helped me a lot. Understanding how much I was eating and the amount of calories was a great help.
> 
> That fact is I always ate far more than I admitted to myself or even knew about. How did I end up that big easily I ate far more calories than I needed to each day. Up to 10 years ago I was racing 10 months of the year along with plenty of training miles, during this time I could eat without putting on the weight, then along came 9 years without riding but still eating the same. Truth is I ended up a big fat unhealthy git, never again.
> 
> ...



Thanks Screenman - my situation has a lot of similarities to yours - though I had pushed my limits a bit further before I did anything about it. 

I'm late forties and had very slowly gained weight for almost twenty years - ever since I turned thirty. It's amazing how insidious it can be. Even putting on a pound every three months gives forty pounds in ten years! 

Anyway I'm 5'9" and I started last year at 18 stone 2 pounds. I've really stopped trying to lose any more, having lost for over a year, but I'm now at 13 stone 3 pounds. 

I don't think I ate more than I admitted to - but I was certainly much less fit than I woud ever have admitted. I still regarded myself as pretty fit, when in truth I often became breathless climbing stairs. Health issues weren't a huge factor, but I was worried that they could be. One issue was snoring and possible sleep apnoea, leading to me being very tired during the day, particularly afternoons. I can't believe how little sleep I need now - or that I rarely feel tired. 

All in all it's been a hugely positive experience- feel great, lots of energy, though I have developed a potentially expensive cycling habit!


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## amaferanga (18 May 2011)

tyred said:


> I will highlight the point about drinking a lot of water. We can be thirsty and think we are hungry. Before a meal, drink half a pint of water and you will probably find you eat less.



I've heard this before, but if you only put on your plate what you plan to eat then you don't need to do anything to suppress your appetite. Maybe more relevant when you're eating out I guess.


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## WychwoodTrev (18 May 2011)

..Hi ya bintanman I have been on a diet since jan 11th and cycling since the start of march. I have allmost cut out bread only 4 slices a week as beans on toast or scrambled egg at weekends. During the week I eat cream cracker or ryvita with philadelphia there are loads of flavours my fave are sweet chilli or roasted peppers and fruit. Evening meals loads of veg I have lots o fbrussel sprouts. I started out at 18 st and now weigh 15st and feel so much healther for it. But I didnt lose weight every week good luck and keep it up as its well worth it.


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## BintanMan (18 May 2011)

I've heard cutting out bread helps a lot. A friend of mine went on the Red/Green day diet and lost quite a bit of weight just by cutting out bread as a carb.

Ideally I would like to exercise every day, little and often, but it's just not that practical. I'm out on the bike every other day at the moment doing 12-18 miles and a longer ride on weekends. I hear what you say about commuting but I tend to work from home more often that go into the office these days, plus I don't fancy the logistical nightmare of cycling into work. It would be nice though; to have a local job and cycle to work. At the moment I live in a great area for cycling but too far out of London to commute JUST using a bike. I could do the old train/cycle thing but again it doesn't seem right. To be honest I think I would rather run than cycle in that way.

What other suggestions are there for breakfast that don't involve bread? Obviously I know porridge and cereal....


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## Fiona N (18 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> .... Maybe my memories of running 40 miles/week and shedding weight easily are still fresh.



I'm with you there - in 1992 after a serious ankle injury stopped me doing any sport or even walking without pain, I put on about 5kgs before I had an operation to sort the problem and another 5 kgs before I started physio after the plaster cast came off. So by the time I started running again I had more than 10kgs to shift - it took about 6 months but I don't ever remember having to diet or even restrict what I ate, running at lunchtimes and commuting to work by bike were enough.

Sadly, nearly 20 years on and the same isn't true - I can't run any more due to knackered knees so shifting excess weight is purely by cycling (totally ineffective so far and that includes long distance Audaxes - 400km a couple of weeks ago resulted in a weight loss of 0.0 kgs) and discipline (also so far ineffective ).


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## Panter (19 May 2011)

I found that cutting down massively on bread helped a great deal.
I'm not convinced that bread in itself is a problem, but it is high in calories.
I used to eat a huge amount of bread, but now I just have two slices of toast in the morning, and a salad for lunch (unless I'm cycle commuting, then I also have 100g of porridge oats with cold skimmed milk and a roll for lunch) which keeps my calorie intake low.

In fact, I eat so little bread now that I keep mine in the freezer (I'm the only one in our household who eats wholemeal bread) and just pop a couple of slices in the toaster straight from the freezer for breakfast.
There are obviously plenty of bread free breakfast options, but unless you stick to fruit or similar, just keep a close eye on the calories as even porridge can pack a hefty punch if you're not careful with portion sizes.

I've never come across the Red/Green diet, but I must admit I'm very skeptical of any eating plan that has a fancy name 
I'm a firm believer in good calories balanced against excercise, it's all that has ever worked for me and at my weigh-in this morning, although I'm still a fat bar-steward, I'm at the lowest weight I've ever been in the whole of my adult life after Years of yo-yo dieting with a gradual upwards trend...


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## yello (19 May 2011)

Bread is a real temptation as it tends to be easily snackable, it tending always to be in reach. This is a good way to deal with that problem...



Panter said:


> In fact, I eat so little bread now that I keep mine in the freezer (I'm the only one in our household who eats wholemeal bread) and just pop a couple of slices in the toaster straight from the freezer for breakfast.



Anyone that's eaten fresh bread will know how gorgeous, not to mention moor-ish, it is. Fresh baguette was a real problem for me, now resolved - we very rarely buy it these days! I could easily scoff half a fresh baguette, with butter, between breakfast and lunch. 

If you are a snacker, make sure the at hand snack option isn't a waist expander. 

The other thing to keep in mind (and I've not read this entire thread so apologies if it's been mentioned already) is that if really want to loose weight then don't fuel your rides. By that I mean don't go preparing special meals to have before and after riding. On bike fuelling on longer rides, sure, but don't go carbo loading or anything daft. Look to change your regular (hopefully healthy!) meals rather than add new ones.

It's a mistake I feel a lot of people make. They think the extra effort, in terms of miles on a bike, allows them leeway for extra eating. It doesn't if your aim is weight loss. I think that we believe we burn more calories than we actually do. When you consider that exercise gives you the major munchies (the body's going into restocking mode), it can be very very easy to actually PUT ON weight after upping the exercise. 

There is an argument, one that I have a lot of time for btw, that if you seriously want to loose weight (and have negligible will power like most of us!) then DON'T do strenuous exercise. You want your body chemistry to remain as stable as possible and not force it into extremes. Regular and gentle exercise, such as walking, is seen as a better strategy for weight loss than gym sessions.


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## kenuk1 (19 May 2011)

Hi all, just hoy my bit into this, I was/am in the same boat re losing weight, I like beer and kebabs too much to be thin...either way, my mate 46 years, got took into hospital ended up have a quad bypass so it was time for me to wake up, at 36 years and a family history of heart issues, basically I shat meself and got a wake up call.

So to losing weight, tried weightwatchers with the missus, felt like a tart so stopped as I couldn't get my head round points to be honest, then I stumbled on myfitnesspal (google it im scared to link coz am new) it's a calorie counting site, but almost all foods are already listed and it's a piece of slimline cake to use, also has an app, and also has exercise cals to add.

Anyone who wants to incorporate calorie intake, cycling as part of a fitness routine will benefit massively from it, I lost a fair bit and its easy, addictive to be honest, just enter your height, weight, goals, and then your away.

Good luck anyone on a weight loss journey, resist the kebab, food of the god!


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## phil120867 (23 May 2011)

I'm 43 5'8'' and 13st 5ib this morning. I've been looking to get down to 12 st 6lb or there abouts for about 3 years. i regularly ride, train, commute up to 5 or 6 times a week, usually 2 hours max at any one time. My issue is that as i have got fitter, I have got fatter. I'm just hungry all the time. I also like to go as fast as I can all the time, I regulary average 21mph over 17 miles on the way home from work and I ride with a bunch of really fit (younger) guys so I'm always running at 75-100% max BHP. I have a resting HR of about 41. I cut out all booze 4 years ago but I've got fatter since. I eat the usual stuff, pasta, spuds, chips once a week, sandwiches & coke for lunch, the odd (!) cake from the girls in the office, fruit N fibre as a 9pm snack. I'm not sure what else to do, I've done the slimfast thing (stayed the same), I've tried protein shakes as a post ride drink. I've given up energy bars in favour of an oat based homemade flapjack thing. If I don't eat a lot I find it difficult to ride home or keep up on the 2 hour MTB ride. What else should I do? I was thinking of doing slower rides to burn fat but I'm very time limited (family, job etc), so I'd have to use the time I usually go out riding with the lads? I have tried to cut out bread this week and its working, I've lost a couple of lbs just having pasta instead of a sandwich for lunch. I've also joined the slower 'recovery' group on Sunday morning, it seemed just as fast


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## yello (23 May 2011)

Sounds like your exercising too hard! Refer to my earlier post. Working that hard is making the munchies such a temptation, one that any mortal being needs an iron will to ignore.

And in all honesty, pasta, spuds and chips are not what I'd call a weight loss diet. Neither are sandwiches and coke for lunch. I think you need to revise your eating habits (sorry, and cut out the late night snacks too!) and look for your normal eating habits to fuel your riding... and work on your powers of resistance!


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## amaferanga (23 May 2011)

phil120867 said:


> I'm 43 5'8'' and 13st 5ib this morning. I've been looking to get down to 12 st 6lb or there abouts for about 3 years. i regularly ride, train, commute up to 5 or 6 times a week, usually 2 hours max at any one time. My issue is that as i have got fitter, I have got fatter. I'm just hungry all the time. I also like to go as fast as I can all the time, I regulary average 21mph over 17 miles on the way home from work and I ride with a bunch of really fit (younger) guys so I'm always running at 75-100% max BHP. I have a resting HR of about 41. I cut out all booze 4 years ago but I've got fatter since. I eat the usual stuff, pasta, spuds, chips once a week, sandwiches & coke for lunch, the odd (!) cake from the girls in the office, fruit N fibre as a 9pm snack. I'm not sure what else to do, I've done the slimfast thing (stayed the same), I've tried protein shakes as a post ride drink. I've given up energy bars in favour of an oat based homemade flapjack thing. If I don't eat a lot I find it difficult to ride home or keep up on the 2 hour MTB ride. What else should I do? I was thinking of doing slower rides to burn fat but I'm very time limited (family, job etc), so I'd have to use the time I usually go out riding with the lads? I have tried to cut out bread this week and its working, I've lost a couple of lbs just having pasta instead of a sandwich for lunch. I've also joined the slower 'recovery' group on Sunday morning, it seemed just as fast



Well you need to eat less obviously. I understand that its difficult to maintain a calorie deficit when you're training or riding hard a lot, but it should be possible by being smart not just about what you eat, but when you eat. So for example have your evening meal immediately after your ride instead of having a snack and/or recovery shake and then dinner later.

Unfortunately riding hard = massive appetite so you need to be disciplined and resist the urge to stuff your face after a hard ride.

You might find logging your calories using something like Livestrong's MyPlate an eye-opener and it might just be that a bit of portion control is all you need (but make sure you're honest with your calorie log and you need to weigh most things).


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## Cubist (23 May 2011)

phil120867 said:


> I'm 43 5'8'' and 13st 5ib this morning. I've been looking to get down to 12 st 6lb or there abouts for about 3 years. i regularly ride, train, commute up to 5 or 6 times a week, usually 2 hours max at any one time. My issue is that as i have got fitter, I have got fatter. I'm just hungry all the time. I also like to go as fast as I can all the time, I regulary average 21mph over 17 miles on the way home from work and I ride with a bunch of really fit (younger) guys so I'm always running at 75-100% max BHP. I have a resting HR of about 41. I cut out all booze 4 years ago but I've got fatter since. I eat the usual stuff, pasta, spuds, chips once a week, sandwiches & coke for lunch, the odd (!) cake from the girls in the office, fruit N fibre as a 9pm snack. I'm not sure what else to do, I've done the slimfast thing (stayed the same), I've tried protein shakes as a post ride drink. I've given up energy bars in favour of an oat based homemade flapjack thing. If I don't eat a lot I find it difficult to ride home or keep up on the 2 hour MTB ride. What else should I do? I was thinking of doing slower rides to burn fat but I'm very time limited (family, job etc), so I'd have to use the time I usually go out riding with the lads? I have tried to cut out bread this week and its working, I've lost a couple of lbs just having pasta instead of a sandwich for lunch. I've also joined the slower 'recovery' group on Sunday morning, it seemed just as fast



Your diet is high carbohydrate. We love to eat it as it's filling, but refined carbs cause an instant energy hit, the blood sugar levels shoot up and your body throws in an insulin spike to get the levels back down to normal. This lowers the blood sugar again and you feel hungry. It's a vicious circle. The excess carbs you consume are simply stored as fat for next time you face a serious famine or failed harvest (this is a bit primordial!). If you cut out the instant sugary, refined starchy foods, and substitute them for the wholemeal, low sugar varieties, your blodd sugar level doweesn't see-saw, and you feel less hunger. 

If you take this a step further and eat fewer carbs, upping the protein levels you can burn proteins and fats for energy, but these quickly run out. The body then remembers where it stored a couple of pounds of energy, on your gut and arse, so it goes to the famine store and uses them up. So if you cut down on carbs and continue to exercise, then the fat burn is all the quicker. If you cut down the refined carbs and sugars your insulin levels (and therefore your blood sugar levels) flatline, and so you don't feel as hungry after exercise. 

Google " High Protein Diet". The weight loss is rapid at first, but this method means that you change your metabolism to burn body fat, rather than protein (muscle)


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## yello (24 May 2011)

Cubist said:


> the blood sugar levels shoot up and your body throws in an insulin spike to get the levels back down to normal.



Maintaining blood sugar levels is a key to controlling weight, imho. From my reading, and as Cubist also says, carb generally but fast carb specifically alters those levels. Fast sugars are the main dangers as they cause the dramatic changes. I know I go on about this but is my belief that intense exercise also dramatically alters body chemistry - this is why you get the munchies post ride. Your body not only wants to restock but also take on more in case of future repeats! 

If you want to continue with the intense exercise (and loose weight) then you'll need to develop an iron will too.

There's also the nature of calories consumed to consider. Fat has a bad reputation, because it is calorific, but fat doesn't make you fat. Sugar is required to store fat. Ergo, reducing the sugars helps prevent that. (I'm NOT advocating high fat, no carb diets btw!) Equally, protein and fat tend to be more appetite sating than carb. They might be more calorific but you tend to eat less of them. 

There are many many good 'low carb' resources on the web. I personally like to read the perspectives offered by the advocates of the so-called caveman or palaeolithic or primordial diets. They have a great deal to offer in terms of food for thought. The evolutionary perspective is one worthy of consideration, as our diets today are radically different to those of a few hundred years ago and evolution is a slow process. Our bodies are having to deal with food products today that are very very recent in terms of evolution. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if our new diet is responsible for a great many illnesses. Now, I'd never suggest someone goes the whole hog and goes on a caveman diet (to ignore the benefits of modern eating would be a bit daft imo, baby and bathwater springs to mind) but I do think some of the principals are worth incorporating.


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## JohnHenry (24 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> I've heard cutting out bread helps a lot. A friend of mine went on the Red/Green day diet and lost quite a bit of weight just by cutting out bread as a carb.
> 
> Ideally I would like to exercise every day, little and often, but it's just not that practical. I'm out on the bike every other day at the moment doing 12-18 miles and a longer ride on weekends. I hear what you say about commuting but I tend to work from home more often that go into the office these days, plus I don't fancy the logistical nightmare of cycling into work. It would be nice though; to have a local job and cycle to work. At the moment I live in a great area for cycling but too far out of London to commute JUST using a bike. I could do the old train/cycle thing but again it doesn't seem right. To be honest I think I would rather run than cycle in that way.
> 
> What other suggestions are there for breakfast that don't involve bread? Obviously I know porridge and cereal....



I've been with Slimming World for over a year - lost three stone (and put one back on) - good breakfasts for me are scrambled eggs (with smoked salmon or LEAN bacon as a treat) but no bread/toast or butter. A good fry-up (with Frylite) mushrooms tomatoes bacon eggs and baked beans (NO hash browns or fried bread) is great - the basic thing is to eliminate fat as much as you can (fat free yoghourt, fruit and muesli is my "normal" breakfast). Cut out dairy - God I miss my cheese! Eat loads of fruit and veg - weirdly fruit JUICE is banned - something to do with complex sugars - way over my head. I treat myself to a Bloody Mary for brunch every Sunday - beer is out, sadly. The mantra is that you won't stick to it if you don't enjoy it...


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## screenman (24 May 2011)

I enjoy bread and feel it helped in my diet, slice it thick and spread it thin is my mantra. Lost 4 stone last year and felt great all the time so must have done something right.


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## ColinJ (24 May 2011)

JohnHenry said:


> I treat myself to a Bloody Mary for brunch every Sunday - beer is out, sadly. The mantra is that you won't stick to it if you don't enjoy it...


An inherent contradiction there, methinks!


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## jeltz (24 May 2011)

Just skimmed through so haven't read all the posts but has anyone using a smaller plate? I tend to eat what I have on the plate and I will fill my plate, however in truth I've had more than enough to eat therefore if I use a smaller plate I control my portion size better. It doesn't matter that what you are eating is healthily if its too much then its too much.


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## JohnHenry (24 May 2011)

ColinJ said:


> An inherent contradiction there, methinks!



What can I say - my life is full of them!


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## ColinJ (24 May 2011)

jeltz said:


> Just skimmed through so haven't read all the posts but has anyone using a smaller plate? I tend to eat what I have on the plate and I will fill my plate, however in truth I've had more than enough to eat therefore if I use a smaller plate I control my portion size better. It doesn't matter that what you are eating is healthily if its too much then its too much.


Yes, that's a good tip.

I'd also suggest eating slowly. It can take a few minutes before you realise that you are actually full. It's easy to overdo it when you eat quickly.

Pay attention to what you are eating. I've had an intense conversation during a meal and at the end of it, I had no recollection of eating the food! It's hard to feel satisfied when you can't even remember what you've eaten ...


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## snorri (24 May 2011)

jeltz said:


> Just skimmed through so haven't read all the posts but has anyone using a smaller plate?



The smaller plate theory has been mentioned, I think it's a good'un.


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## amaferanga (24 May 2011)

The size of the plate makes no difference if you only prepare what you need in the first place....


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## ColinJ (24 May 2011)

amaferanga said:


> The size of the plate makes no difference if you only prepare what you need in the first place....


And you won't get fat if you eat and drink the right number of calories and exercise enough, but bluntly saying that isn't really helpful to people who are struggling is it?

I know damn well that I am only fat because I drink too much beer so it is very simple for me, but some people find it much more difficult.


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## phil120867 (24 May 2011)

Thanks guys there is a lot of food for thought there (!), some of it I knew about some of it I didn't want to hear. I am willing to make the effort, thank you all again.


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## amaferanga (24 May 2011)

ColinJ said:


> And you won't get fat if you eat and drink the right number of calories and exercise enough, but bluntly saying that isn't really helpful to people who are struggling is it?
> 
> I know damn well that I am only fat because I drink too much beer so it is very simple for me, but some people find it much more difficult.



Portion control or a smaller plate should achieve the same thing though shouldn't they? Better to control the calories through only cooking what you need instead of using a smaller plate (which you can easily load up a second time anyway).


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## ColinJ (24 May 2011)

amaferanga said:


> Portion control or a smaller plate should achieve the same thing though shouldn't they? Better to control the calories through only cooking what you need instead of using a smaller plate (which you can easily load up a second time anyway).


It's the psychological effect of plate size that makes the difference. A sensible-sized portion can look lost on a huge plate so you feel deprived. The same amount of food filling a smaller plate looks like more even though it isn't.

Of course, in the end it is the number of calories that matter but some mind games can help to cut down the cravings.

My number one tip (which I've probably mentioned before) - choose some low calorie vegetables that you like and take the edge off your appetite with generous portions of those at the expense of more calorie-dense stuff. For example - carrots contain about one tenth of the calories of cheddar cheese by weight. You could eat 250g of carrot and still only be eating half the calories contained in just 50g of cheddar. Just don't smother them in butter, or your salads in mayo or salad cream.


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## JohnHenry (25 May 2011)

For me, a lot of my overeating is habit so, now when I know I am going to be tempted to snack on Rocky Road and biscuits (in meetings for example) I always take along my own bag of snacks such as dried apricots, sultanas or carrot sticks.

It's surprising how many other people dig into my "healthy" alternatives and I find that it helps me stay away from the "bad" stuff.


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## BintanMan (26 May 2011)

I'm not sure when I started this thread, probably a week ago?

I haven't weighed myself since I wrote the first thread, mainly because of all the replies I managed to stay focused and got myself into a routine where I am happy. I've decided weighing myself isn't helping, even though weight loss and toning up is my main aim. I just know my weight loss expectation are too high and if I get on the scales I'm going to be disappointed.

Since I posted I have also registered with LiveStrong OnMyPlate. Even though the calories stated and (in particular) the calories burned through exercise are very dubious, it really is helping me look at my diet more closely. I also find it quite motivating.

Have I seen more positive results this past week? Yes I have. My jeans are definitely looser and some of my t-shirts feel much nicer. The most rewarding thing is I feel MUCH fitter on my bike, to the point where I'm enjoying it immensely. I went out this lunchtime in all the wind and showers and I'm getting the same buzz I got from those long runs I used to do a few years ago. Do my legs ache? Oh yes, but it feels magic again


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## tyred (26 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Have I seen more positive results this past week? Yes I have. My jeans are definitely looser and some of my t-shirts feel much nicer. The most rewarding thing is I feel MUCH fitter on my bike,






There you go. You are starting to find the benefit of your new healthier lifestyle. It just takes a little time for the benefits to kick in. It will only get better from here on, but only if you can avoid the post-ride munchies.


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## BintanMan (26 May 2011)

I usually work out what I'm going to eat (when I get back) during the ride! I also try to schedule my rides before a main meal. It's difficult on weekends because I like to get out before the family get out of bed, so finding the time to eat is hard especially as it's the time I want to go on a longer ride. Perhaps this weekend I will take food with me and eat minimal breakfast. What do you think?


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## Bayerd (26 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> I usually work out what I'm going to eat (when I get back) during the ride! I also try to schedule my rides before a main meal. It's difficult on weekends because I like to get out before the family get out of bed, so finding the time to eat is hard especially as it's the time I want to go on a longer ride. Perhaps this weekend I will take food with me and eat minimal breakfast. What do you think?



That's what I do. Most days I go out and cycle between about 10-15 miles before eating anything. On weekends when I'm looking to do over 30 miles I'll take a small amount of food with me.

You could always aim for a cafe stop for breakfast if the distance warrants it.

When I get back I usually have something like beans on toast with a glass of milk or sparkling water.

This method works well for me.


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## MacB (26 May 2011)

Cubist said:


> Your diet is high carbohydrate. We love to eat it as it's filling, but refined carbs cause an instant energy hit, the blood sugar levels shoot up and your body throws in an insulin spike to get the levels back down to normal. This lowers the blood sugar again and you feel hungry. It's a vicious circle. The excess carbs you consume are simply stored as fat for next time you face a serious famine or failed harvest (this is a bit primordial!). If you cut out the instant sugary, refined starchy foods, and substitute them for the wholemeal, low sugar varieties, your blodd sugar level doweesn't see-saw, and you feel less hunger.
> 
> If you take this a step further and eat fewer carbs, upping the protein levels you can burn proteins and fats for energy, but these quickly run out. The body then remembers where it stored a couple of pounds of energy, on your gut and arse, so it goes to the famine store and uses them up. So if you cut down on carbs and continue to exercise, then the fat burn is all the quicker. If you cut down the refined carbs and sugars your insulin levels (and therefore your blood sugar levels) flatline, and so you don't feel as hungry after exercise.
> 
> Google " High Protein Diet". The weight loss is rapid at first, but this method means that you change your metabolism to burn body fat, rather than protein (muscle)



This would be my pick of the tips, either cut carbs out totally for a while or only have them up til lunchtime.


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## Panter (27 May 2011)

BintanMan said:


> I'm not sure when I started this thread, probably a week ago?
> 
> I haven't weighed myself since I wrote the first thread, mainly because of all the replies I managed to stay focused and got myself into a routine where I am happy. I've decided weighing myself isn't helping, even though weight loss and toning up is my main aim. I just know my weight loss expectation are too high and if I get on the scales I'm going to be disappointed.
> 
> ...



Fantastic, glad you're feeling the benefits


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## Lizzy (4 Jun 2011)

Hi

I've been cycling to help me loose weight, but I'm not doing that solely. When cycling your body is lugging the weight around so yo can do hours of it without loosing much weight. A brisk walk means your legs carry your body and you ought to loose more weight. Skipping very impactful on weight loss (although the first time you try you may only be able to do a few second at a time, but you can do that 20 time a day and build up). 

To give you an indication of how poor cycling is, my main work out is between 60-120 miles a week, since Cristmas I've done 174 hours working out, Cycling, ice skating (about 70 hours) , ballet (about 40 hours), and skipping (less than 5 hours were the latter)... so cycling by far the max. If I'd just done 50 hrs of skipping I'd probably be my goal weight.... 

the gist being cycling is not giving you the work out you need to loose weight.


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## amaferanga (4 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> Hi
> 
> I've been cycling to help me loose weight, but I'm not doing that solely. When cycling your body is lugging the weight around so yo can do hours of it without loosing much weight. A brisk walk means your legs carry your body and you ought to loose more weight. Skipping very impactful on weight loss (although the first time you try you may only be able to do a few second at a time, but you can do that 20 time a day and build up).
> 
> ...



What rubbish. I regularly burn close to 1000 kcal/hour cycling. Most people should be able to burn 500 kcal/hour cycling - do an hour every day and eat normally and you'll lose a pound a week. 

Maybe your problem is you've been eating too much?


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## Lizzy (4 Jun 2011)

I hook up my monitor and it SAYs I'm burning 1000 calories and still the scales don't budge very much.... bikes carry your weight - thats not debatable. If you believe its rubbish all good, but running, walking, skipping will be MUCH more effective at LOOSing weight. Any of the weight bearing activities cause the weight to come off quicker.... cycling very good for overall fitness, rubbish for weight loss.

I have a bro who cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania concurs that actually your body becomes very efficient with cycling. So if you believe its rubbish - all good to you, but the scale don't lie and the person posting the OP is having issue with trying to loose weight.


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## screenman (4 Jun 2011)

This may give you some idea's about calories used. Now walking slowly uses less calories than cycling fast, well I am sure you can work out the rest.

Take in less calories than you use and you will lose weight. The majority of people massively under estimate how many calories they take in each day.


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## amaferanga (4 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> I hook up my monitor and it SAYs I'm burning 1000 calories and still the scales don't budge very much.... bikes carry your weight - thats not debatable. If you believe its rubbish all good, but running, walking, skipping will be MUCH more effective at LOOSing weight. Any of the weight bearing activities cause the weight to come off quicker.... cycling very good for overall fitness, rubbish for weight loss.
> 
> I have a bro who cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania concurs that actually your body becomes very efficient with cycling. So if you believe its rubbish - all good to you, but the scale don't lie and the person posting the OP is having issue with trying to loose weight.




You do know that its LOSing and not LOOSing right? And LOse as opposed to LOOse?

Anyway, HR monitors are notoriously crap at telling you how many calories you burn - most overestimate hugely. I suspect that when your HR is telling you've burnt 1000 kcal you've probably burnt maybe half that amount. So if you were basing your calorie intake on what your HR monitor is telling you you'd probably end up eating too much. 

My calorie estimates come from a power meter so are just about as accurate as you can get. I know that if I properly monitor the number of calories I consume (no kidding myself or underestimating) and the calories I burn cycling from my power meter I will drop weight. Simple as that.

Not sure what makes your brother an expert just because he cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania. The efficiency of the human body is pretty much fixed - you can't train it. Doesn't matter how fit you are - cycling at a given power output will burn a given number of calories (+/- a few %). 

So yes, I still reckon you're talking rubbish.


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## Lizzy (4 Jun 2011)

amaferanga said:


> You do know that its LOSing and not LOOSing right? And LOse as opposed to LOOse?
> 
> Anyway, HR monitors are notoriously crap at telling you how many calories you burn - most overestimate hugely. I suspect that when your HR is telling you've burnt 1000 kcal you've probably burnt maybe half that amount. So if you were basing your calorie intake on what your HR monitor is telling you you'd probably end up eating too much.
> 
> ...




I'm dyslexic, so spelling is not a strong point, but a long way short from stupid... 


I use a HRM and a cadence unit, I then come home upload it, ignore the calories, then put it into mynetdiary - where I calculate my calory intake, which is always different from the heart rate monitor, I plug in the different mins spent at 5 different speed bands.

For what its worth I was at a dietitian on Thursday who cut back my cycling and asked me to spend 40mins a day skipping (in two parts) - 4 days a week. She didn't explicitly say that cycling means the bike is carrying your weight around, but three fairly knowledgeable people have explicitly said as much... 
A friend of mine who does a lot of boxing and actually knows a scary amount about gym and work out methods 
My Bro and his girlfriend who cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania - ultimately says your body very quickly gets use to average daily speed so you don't loose weight, and that is in addition to the dietitian. 

I do appreciate that other people have different opinions, but I'll stick to my professional's advice and the experience of the above people.

Some metabolisms have triggers into fat production therefore is it more difficult than a simple calorie in and out. The book The metabolic Miracle (AWFUL book for a variety of issues), basically points out that there is more than one type of metabolism, one which functions very well on the calories in and out equation... the other has created cells that actively cling onto fat.... this concept concurs with the idea in "The Fat around the Middle book (again wouldn't recommend this book), which basically says you've increased your cortisone, which in turn turns your body into a fat producing machine.

So basically the alternative metabolism simply doesn't work with the calories in and out equation,and you ave to re-train your body to process foods in a more normal way. The book I would recommend is one called "The insulin resistance diet book" by Cheryle Hart (and another woman).

The original poster is saying they are not loosing weight, I'm suggesting they change how they work out. Obviously they can make up their own mind.

The benefits of cycling is that my general fitness is very good and I look a lot slimmer than my actual weight, however that doesn't prevent health issues.


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## Aperitif (4 Jun 2011)

Hello Lizzy, I didn't see you when I passed you this afternoon... 
ONLY joking. A good post.
For me, I ride and feel hungry. To satiate that hunger 'anything goes' whether that is Coke (full-fat, not the Aspartame rubbish) chocs, a sandwich or whatever...
The last ride I did that involved stopping to eat and drink was excellent, and a pointer for me - I chose 'nicer' food rather than chocs etc...
I completed the ride in good 'form' and reflected that I thought about what I NEEDED to eat... (doesn't often happen). (It was London - Cardiff, then Cardiff- Swansea... for breakfast - then we had beer afterwards... )
And I'm the antidote to 'martyrs' about all this stuff about eating.
Take time. Things will change as long as you let them change. Bintanman - let it happen, but never start a ride without fuel in your tank. Think of your cyclist's body as a coal-fuelled fire - an 'Ideal' boiler. When you cycle, you can drop anything you like into the open top of the 'Ideal' and it will burn to nothing. If there is no flame in that 'boiler' then you will be the first to realise it. 
Enjoy your riding - whatever your weight.


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## Lizzy (4 Jun 2011)

Aperitif said:


> Hello Lizzy, I didn't see you when I passed you this afternoon...
> ONLY joking. A good post.
> For me, I ride and feel hungry. To satiate that hunger 'anything goes' whether that is Coke (full-fat, not the Aspartame rubbish) chocs, a sandwich or whatever...
> The last ride I did that involved stopping to eat and drink was excellent, and a pointer for me - I chose 'nicer' food rather than chocs etc...
> ...



I don't snack like that, I cycle have breakfast (which is usually very healthy) and then cycle again.... If you don't drink enough dehydration can cause you to snack/get the munchies, but if you drink enough water you don't snack so much (but might need to pee).... The body can confuse dehydration with hunger, so even if not working out sorting out your hydration is massive. Asparimine = evil in my book, but it is in so much. Bliss is a really nice natural one which is low cal. 


Don't get me wrong, I have lost a stone in 6.5 months so technically I am loosing it, just tediously slowly, to the point I was referred to the dietcian... who basically put me on c.200 less cals per day (1200 - no joke). 

When I've had a similar amount of weight to loose (about 5 years ago)....I lost a similar amount in about 5 weeks when skipping 4 times a week (in comparison to months of cycling and a total of 2kg lost). 

I do have a metabolic disorder so I'm an extreme case and platue at the drop of a hat, there are much more efficient working out methods that cause weight loss than cycling, because of the body weight being carried. The last time I moved onto skipping (which is extreme I agree), I'd been cycling a stationary bike each evening with pitiful results, so unless you are doing proper spin classes there are significantly more effective methods of weight loss.

PS I'm no saint when dieting I do fall off the bandwagon just like anyone else, but in comparision to other dieters I can be eating 1400 cal and working out 1400 cal and still wont much/any loose weight...


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## Rhythm Thief (4 Jun 2011)

JohnHenry said:


> I've been with Slimming World for over a year - lost three stone (and put one back on) - good breakfasts for me are scrambled eggs (with smoked salmon or LEAN bacon as a treat) but no bread/toast or butter. A good fry-up (with Frylite) mushrooms tomatoes bacon eggs and baked beans (NO hash browns or fried bread) is great - the basic thing is to eliminate fat as much as you can (fat free yoghourt, fruit and muesli is my "normal" breakfast). Cut out dairy - God I miss my cheese! Eat loads of fruit and veg - weirdly fruit JUICE is banned - something to do with complex sugars - way over my head. I treat myself to a Bloody Mary for brunch every Sunday - beer is out, sadly. The mantra is that you won't stick to it if you don't enjoy it...



With great respect - and I should say that I'm pleased that this has worked for you - I'd sooner be a bit of a porker than cut out beer and fried bread, and eat fat free yoghurt (yuk). It's all very well being thin, but hell, you've got to enjoy life a bit too!
I've found the best way to lose weight is to not own any scales.


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## Madcyclist (4 Jun 2011)

Over the past 4 years my weight has dropped from 17stone to just under 11 stone by cycling alone. My eating habits have changed as my fitness increased, particularly cutting out take aways and late night snacks and simply eating smaller meals more often as hunger/exercise patterns dictate.
Ironically I enjoy logging my rides purely from a distance point of view but just haven't got the patience to estimate calories consumed against expenditure.

The point of my post is that with patience cycling is an excellent way to lose excess weight, get out and enjoy the countryside, meet like minded people and most importantly low impact compared to walking/skipping/jogging.

The only negative for me is that it's cost me a fortune in clothes, waist size has reduced from 42 to 30 inches.

Keep cycling, enjoy it and the results will come !!!!


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## Lizzy (4 Jun 2011)

Madcyclist said:


> Over the past 4 years my weight has dropped from 17stone to just under 11 stone by cycling alone. My eating habits have changed as my fitness increased, particularly cutting out take aways and late night snacks and simply eating smaller meals more often as hunger/exercise patterns dictate.
> Ironically I enjoy logging my rides purely from a distance point of view but just haven't got the patience to estimate calories consumed against expenditure.
> 
> The point of my post is that with patience cycling is an excellent way to lose excess weight, get out and enjoy the countryside, meet like minded people and most importantly low impact compared to walking/skipping/jogging.
> ...



With the greatest respect, cutting out take away (massive calories in those) and snacks (additional calories in those).... is a diet.... cutting out take alone will typically see weight fall off because they are so bad for you - check out pizza hut calories per pizza (small), v's chinese take out, or McD's, . 



I will shut up, cycling is great for fitness and health, but there are more efficient weight loss methods


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## screenman (4 Jun 2011)

Whilst not disagreeing that skipping can use up more calories per hour than cycling, how many hours could an over weight person skip for without causing any damage to joints? Also it is easier on the body and mind surely to cycle for 2 hours and burn say 800 calories than it is to skip for 1 hour and 10 minutes for the same calorie use.

4 stone lost last year on 1800 calories nett per day.


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## Baggy (5 Jun 2011)

yello said:


> The other thing to keep in mind (and I've not read this entire thread so apologies if it's been mentioned already) is that if really want to loose weight then don't fuel your rides. By that I mean don't go preparing special meals to have before and after riding. On bike fuelling on longer rides, sure, but don't go carbo loading or anything daft. Look to change your regular (hopefully healthy!) meals rather than add new ones.
> 
> It's a mistake I feel a lot of people make. They think the extra effort, in terms of miles on a bike, allows them leeway for extra eating. It doesn't if your aim is weight loss. I think that we believe we burn more calories than we actually do. When you consider that exercise gives you the major munchies (the body's going into restocking mode), it can be very very easy to actually PUT ON weight after upping the exercise.


This is fairly key for a lot of people who count calories - e.g. if you burn 600 calories in an hour of cycling, you need to remember that this includes calories that you burn just from being alive anyway (background calories). For me, that's about 100 calories, so in an hour's cycling I burn 500 extra calories. I can easily see how my weight had crept up in spite of regular cycling, I was just eating too much! 

Heart rate is also important for weight loss, if you exercise at a higher heart rate for a short period you won't be burning into your fat reserves, but a lower heart rate over a longer period of time will. So, am sure if Bintanman keeps up a long, slower ride at weekends as well as shorter rides through the week the weight loss inch loss will continue. 

After keeping a stricter eye on my calorie intake, plus eating more fruit and veg, less carbs and a little less fat I've shed over a stone since January. The weight loss has slowed, but the inches are still going, so that's fine by me. If I didn't eat 6 packs of Tunnocks Teacakes in one sitting I'd probably lose/tone more quickly, but what the hey!


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## Baggy (5 Jun 2011)

BintanMan said:


> Have I seen more positive results this past week? Yes I have. My jeans are definitely looser and some of my t-shirts feel much nicer. The most rewarding thing is I feel MUCH fitter on my bike, to the point where I'm enjoying it immensely. I went out this lunchtime in all the wind and showers and I'm getting the same buzz I got from those long runs I used to do a few years ago. Do my legs ache? Oh yes, but it feels magic again


Missed this in amongst everything - the feeling that you're getting fitter is so important, and it's imo far better to cycle because you enjoy it than to cycle to lose weight - and great that both are happening  It's a good state to get to as we go into summer which will hopefully be good enough to let us all get some good miles in...


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## Andrew_P (5 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> I hook up my monitor and it SAYs I'm burning 1000 calories and still the scales don't budge very much.... bikes carry your weight - thats not debatable. If you believe its rubbish all good, but running, walking, skipping will be MUCH more effective at LOOSing weight. Any of the weight bearing activities cause the weight to come off quicker.... cycling very good for overall fitness, rubbish for weight loss.
> 
> I have a bro who cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania concurs that actually your body becomes very efficient with cycling. So if you believe its rubbish - all good to you, but the scale don't lie and the person posting the OP is having issue with trying to loose weight.


Cycling for one hour @ 75-80% of your predicted MHR will burn the same as any other workout @ the same avg HR.

The mistake I made could well be what you are doing and that is you are using the flat and slight downhills as rest breaks. I Try to put the same effort in on the flat and downhill as I do climbing and aim to have peaked @ 90% up hills and averaged 75-80% for the hour commute. I would reckon that is 450-500 calories


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## yello (6 Jun 2011)

screenman said:


> Take in less calories than you use and you will lose weight.



This is true. It is very simplistic (a broad scale truth if you like) and it is worth looking a little beyond that simple statement. Your body does not store all 'extra' calories consumed, not necessarily anyway. Fat retention is a little more complex than simple calorie counting. Certain body chemicals - most notably insulin - are involved in the fat retention process. That is why low carb diets tend to be more successful for weight loss. It's not because carb is calorific (fat is more so for instance) but carb causes insulin production. Particularly the fast sugars. 



> The majority of people massively under estimate how many calories they take in each day.



Again true. And the sad truth is that those forgotten extras tend to be of the carby snack variety; the chocolate bar, the bit of toast, etc. Kind of a double whammy (with cheese of course!) 

The other (self?) deception is the amount of calories we burn. Baggy mentioned it above; we have a base level of energy burn. That just for our normal functionality. But when don't burn a whole heap more than that in exercising. Our bodies are pretty darned efficient when it comes to power consumption (which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective). I read somewhere (and if I could remember where, I'd link to it, just for the exact numbers if nothing else) that a 30 minute jog burns not a great deal more than just pottering around the garden for the same length of time. 

And what do we do after our 30 minute jog? Reward ourselves with some carby treat in the name of restoring glycogen levels or somesuch! We've just consumed more calories than we've burnt. And not just calories but carbs. Wouldn't have been so bad if it were protein, or even fat. Btw, whilst I think of it, did you know that some doctors/nutrionists say that there is NO daily requirement for carbohydrate - nada, zilch. Not so of protein or fat. The brain is the only organ that requires carb, but it's requirement is negligible. For that reason, other docs say there a small requirement. All agree there is much less need for carbohydrate than our normal diets contain. The body can source energy from all food types (even alcohol!), carb tends to be the readiest source. Hence it being of interest to athletes. 

I know I've said this before, and I'm a bore on the subject, but if you're serious about weight loss (and have no will power!) then avoid carbohydrate and strenuous exercise. Ideally, you want to keep your body chemicals nice and stable. Keep insulin levels in-check and don't go creating boom-bust cycles where you body craves food. If you do like a work out then be prepared to wage a war against appetite too! Think of exercise just before your normal eating times; ride *before* breakfast for instance. Let your normal eating patterns also be your post ride refuelling.


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## Lizzy (6 Jun 2011)

Yea to Yello.....


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## Cubist (6 Jun 2011)

For what it's worth I have been eating less than 25g of carbohydrate per day since the end of April. In those five weeks I have shed 20lb. A high protein content, a high(non starchy) vegetable intake and plenty of fluids means that I don't get hungry, and can snack on previous horrors like pork scratchings and lumps of cheddar. 

Today's menu has been two scrambled eggs and a rasher of grilled bacon, a handful of mixed nuts for elevenses, lunch was a tandoori chicken leg quarter with an iceberg and onion salad, and tea was a keema and mixed veg rogan josh. I've cycled to work and back and will be going to the gym with Cubester to do some upper body work this evening. A quality protein shake will be a nightcap. 

According to t he reading I've done, a low-carb, high protein diet ensures you burn fat, and not muscle like some diets do.


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## Glover Fan (7 Jun 2011)

I'm on my phone so can't be bothered to type loads, but as someone who runs, cycles and swims. Running is the best way to lose weight. Cycling only comes into it's own if you are doing longs distance cycling where you can be exercising for over 3 hours flat, which is why all of those audax types like myself can devour cake at every control without a care in the world!

To be honest I don't think anybody needs to worry about feeding on the bike on anything under 35 miles and I can ride 50 miles comfortably on just a litre of squash. So long as you are eating well balanced meals your body should be able to cope, but by all means take a cereal bar as an emergency ration.


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## Fiona N (7 Jun 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> ... which is why all of those audax types like myself can devour cake at every control without a care in the world!
> 
> ...



Except some of us can't  So far, since March I've done 1 x 400km event, 1 x 300, 6 x 200. Have I lost weight? - not a gram despite a very careful cake intake


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## yello (7 Jun 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> Cycling only comes into it's own if you are doing longs distance cycling where you can be exercising for over 3 hours flat, which is why all of those audax types like myself can devour cake at every control without a care in the world!



Humour me for a moment and let me unpack that statement based on my vital statistics...

Three hours - let's say 75km, ball park that at 2400 calories burnt. My base metabolic rate would have me burn around 200 calories for 3 hours if I stayed in bed. So a 2100 generous additional burn, because I actually do get out of bed though in reality would easily burn more than 300 just pottering about the garden. Chocolate cake at say 350 calories a slice (8 slices per cake say) gives me 6 slices... if I have nothing else. A cup of instant with sugar with that cake? Maybe 50 calories. An energy bar between controls perhaps? Probably down to 4 slices of cake now. My point is I'm not quite sure that I'd say "devour cake without a care in the world". Got to be careful, it soon adds up doesn't it! 

Then those post ride munchies? The reward for all that exercise? You see you can quickly negate any calorie burn without even really trying!

For 100km, I'd take a banana and maybe a bit of flapjack. Plus water in the bidon. Less than 100km then it'd just be water. I either ride before breakfast or am back just before dinner simply to avoid the munchies. I do enjoy my morning coffee and cake though.


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## MacB (7 Jun 2011)

Cubist said:


> For what it's worth I have been eating less than 25g of carbohydrate per day since the end of April. In those five weeks I have shed 20lb. A high protein content, a high(non starchy) vegetable intake and plenty of fluids means that I don't get hungry, and can snack on previous horrors like pork scratchings and lumps of cheddar.
> 
> Today's menu has been two scrambled eggs and a rasher of grilled bacon, a handful of mixed nuts for elevenses, lunch was a tandoori chicken leg quarter with an iceberg and onion salad, and tea was a keema and mixed veg rogan josh. I've cycled to work and back and will be going to the gym with Cubester to do some upper body work this evening. A quality protein shake will be a nightcap.
> 
> According to t he reading I've done, a low-carb, high protein diet ensures you burn fat, and not muscle like some diets do.



Way to go that man!!!! and it totally backs up what Yello posted above


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## Fiona N (8 Jun 2011)

yello said:


> Humour me for a moment and let me unpack that statement based on my vital statistics...
> 
> Three hours - let's say 75km, ball park that at 2400 calories burnt. My base metabolic rate would have me burn around 200 calories for 3 hours if I stayed in bed. So a 2100 generous additional burn, because I actually do get out of bed though in reality would easily burn more than 300 just pottering about the garden. Chocolate cake at say 350 calories a slice (8 slices per cake say) gives me 6 slices... if I have nothing else. A cup of instant with sugar with that cake? Maybe 50 calories. An energy bar between controls perhaps? Probably down to 4 slices of cake now. My point is I'm not quite sure that I'd say "devour cake without a care in the world".



While I absolutely agree with you for a 75km ride (for which I wouldn't usually plan to eat anything extra), I think Glover Fan's point was for Audaxes where 75km is between two controls. So a piece of cake or even two every three hours, for most people, is not an issue. Besides, over long events ( ca. >8 hours, but depends on the intensity), the energetic requirement changes so late miles require more calorie intake than early miles - I seem to recall this is partly a function of a tiring system as fat burning decreases with fatigue so more sugars need to be supplied.


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## yello (8 Jun 2011)

Fiona N said:


> I think Glover Fan's point was for Audaxes where 75km is between two controls. So a piece of cake or even two every three hours, for most people, is not an issue.



I'd agree with that, if we're talking a ride of say 150/200km in total. 



> energetic requirement changes so late miles require more calorie intake than early miles - I seem to recall this is partly a function of a tiring system as *fat burning decreases with fatigue* so more sugars need to be supplied.



I didn't know that. I'll have to investigate. I'd certainly like to know the rate of decrease because it'd make a difference to my refuelling strategies. I tend to maintain a regular eating pattern for longer distances when I could well be needing to increase it after a point in time. It'll also require a menu change too, I get 'sugared out' after a while!


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## Lizzy (8 Jun 2011)

Fiona N said:


> Except some of us can't  So far, since March I've done 1 x 400km event, 1 x 300, 6 x 200. Have I lost weight? - not a gram despite a very careful cake intake



Awe, careful cake eating is a bummer....change your work out, been skipping a week and it is paying off so far (far more so then cycling). I agree with the other poster, long cycles are the only way I actually loose weight from it, the rest of the time it is just fun no weight loss.

Jogging works too, because your mobilising your whole body. Although I love it, Ice Skating is great for a small time, because you have to use your body more, but ultimately the blades take on your body weight.

Good luck and hopefully your care free cake consuming days are only a few weeks away


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## screenman (9 Jun 2011)

Skipping, watch out for your joints if like mine they are getting on a bit. Lizzy, can I ask how long you advise to skip for? I presume it would be hours.


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## Dan B (9 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> Jogging works too, because your mobilising your whole body. Although I love it, Ice Skating is great for a small time, because you have to use your body more, but ultimately the blades take on your body weight.


Not clear what you're saying here - ice skating is good or is not so good? I inline skate a lot and I'd guess it's roughly as effective as cycling (per time, not by distance) with the difference that you can't sit down and your knees are bent more or less all the time.

Mind you, I'm talking about speed skating, and I think from your previous comments you're more into the artistic side?


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## amaferanga (10 Jun 2011)

Cycling burns calories. Simple as that. The harder you work the more you burn. The longer you ride the more you burn. Cycle HARD for an hour every day and you could lose 2lb/week. Cycle less hard for an hour a day and you could lose 1lb/week. Cycle at a pottering pace for an hour a day and you probably won't lose any weight.

I think I'll stick to cycling over skipping....


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## Rafreg (10 Jun 2011)

I would also add make sure your carbohydrate intake is not too high! Although we need carbohydrates especially when exercising, too much and the body will store the excess carbohydrate as body fat. This could be a likely reason why your weight loss is slow. Your body will naturally use carbohydrate for energy. Once the carbohydrates have gone it will start to use fat for it's energy. This is when you start to burn the fat off and start losing weight quicker. If you don't eat carbohydrates you will stay in a state called Ketosis. This is where your body is purely using fat for it's energy. This is not very efficient and will cause tiredness. Be careful that you don't drop into this state too much and for a long period. There is no real prove that it is safe or unsafe.

Bottom line is make sure your diet is well balanced. Only you know if it is, and only you know if you're cheating or not.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

Rafreg, the issue with prolong low carb is what you replace it with. Prolonged very low carbing means you end up eating large portions of proteins and fats. Fat have more calories, and are lower down the threshold for burning... so you in fact make the problem bigger.

Lots of carb sources have other nutritional benefits prolonged non consumption of caby veggies....carrots, turnip, fruit, etc means you are denying your body of a vast array of antitoxins, and other nutrients.

Rather than being in ketosis for prolonged time, it's better to focus on lowering the % of carbs in your daily intake and the total daily in take. even with low carbing, if you are eating too much fat you wont loose weight or it will be super slow.

I appreciate that short term low carbing can kick start, but mass issue over any prolonged time of doing it.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

amaferanga said:


> Cycling burns calories. Simple as that. The harder you work the more you burn. The longer you ride the more you burn. Cycle HARD for an hour every day and you could lose 2lb/week. Cycle less hard for an hour a day and you could lose 1lb/week. Cycle at a pottering pace for an hour a day and you probably won't lose any weight.
> 
> *I think I'll stick to cycling over skipping....*



I think I'll stick to professional advice on the last part...


Consistent messages from folks cycling 7 hours a day for over a year - your body become use to the effort and your weight normalizes so you loose very little. Yell above pretty much says the same thing. 

I cycle at a higher heart rate than my skipping and I STILL loose more weight with the skipping.


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## screenman (10 Jun 2011)

I asked you how long you should skip for, could you please answer that question. How many more calories does low level skipping burn up compared with high or medium level skipping? Skipping is a full load bearing impact exercise I think we should maybe warn that is is not good for joints, as told to me by my very experienced physio and my knee surgeon.

Now I am a true amateur with the experience of losing 4 stone last year, I have spent 40 years in cycling and know may people for whom cycling has helped lose weight safely. Would you please tell us where your professional opinion comes from, this would help others decide if your information is helpful to them.

I am not saying skipping does not burn calories I just feel that it is safer to cycle and you can keep it up longer, meaning more calories burnt overall.

without keeping a very accurate food diary I feel it hard to say that you lost weight just becuase you skipped.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

Don't get me wrong cyclings if fabulous for fitness and will help lots of people,but for many the body normalises and you stop loosing weight (the hours I've spent on a stationary to loose practically zero)

There is and activity calculator here..... you plug in your weight, the activity (there are loads of different ones - click on activity link middle of the page).


http://www.caloriesp.../index_burn.php


Like most calculators they give fairly blunt repose (which needs to be kept in mind with your daily life activity level). You need to differentiate for your own body, the impact of activities where your body weight is begin moiblised by something else (ice skating, roller balding, cycling) and the ones where your body is carrying the mass, jogging, skipping etc. If I want to loose weight and get thin, I do skipping and ballet. I love cycling but it simply doesn't burn weight for me (and for many others - I also love ice skating which burns more than cycling does). 

Skipping is usually called jumping rope on these things. It's hideous when you first try it, but build up is super quick.

I do 40mins a day - spread out in 3 or 4 blasts. I can cycle 2 hours a day and not get the same weight loss the skipping will give me. 

Personally I think skipping slower regular beats kills me more than fast... but hell it is all pretty intense.

Skipping is not good for joints, not is jogging and to a lesser extent cycling. If you have bad joints then brisk walks again where you are carrying your own body weight is again effective.



Professional opinion was the dietician last week who instructed me to cut way back on cycling and ramp up on skipping (I might add I'm a pretty healthy person).

My bro and his partner cycled from Edinburgh to Tasmania a few years back, and both of them concur that cycling will only help partly because your body nomalises

Finally a boxing gym savvy mate also says the reason cycling wont loose weight is due to the bike carrying your weight (much like skating), and your body working out limbs rather than your limbs carrying the full impact of your body weight. 

I keep an accurate food dairy on my phone and exercise via HRM/Cadence Unit and various diaries over time, so yes I can see what impacts more than others


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## screenman (10 Jun 2011)

From what I can find skipping burs off about 600 to 800 calories per hour cycling 400 to 700, so if we take an average say 700 skipping and 550 for cycling then you would need to cycle for 1hour 36 minutes longer to burn off 1lb in fat. Now 3 short sessions of skipping I would find restrictive as in building up to a sweaty state and wanting to shower afterwards, personal hygiene and all that. I would say that you are eating different amounts which is why you are noticeable losing weight with your skipping, doing exercise 3 times per day rather than once will change the way you eat. 

I see you recommend brisk walking over cycling for the overweight with bad joints, that flies in the face of any other recommendations I have ever seen, cycling is none weight bearing on the joints or at least far less than walking is so it is unlikely to cause the same amount of damage to the joints. 

The dietician is seldom a fitness expert, but good that you have faith in the person none the less.

Please all you people out there who are overweight be very careful skipping as it can damage your joints.

Now if we go to the normalize part, utter rubbish, yes you get fitter and use less calories per effort if that effort remains the same. What will happen is you will produce more watts for the lower heart rate, there will not be a time when you are burning the same amount of calories cycling as you would say sleeping.


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## ColinJ (10 Jun 2011)

I lose about 1 pound of weight per 100 miles cycled and it doesn't matter how fit or unfit I am, it's just that I do it quicker when I'm fit!

You say that your body adapts to cycling - yes - it gets fit; you need to keep pushing your boundaries. If your body is fit enough to cycle 40 miles at 15 miles per hour without much effort, then cycle 80 miles at 18 mph and see how you get on. When you get used to that, do a 5 hour century ride.

Cycling is very efficient so, yes, gentle cycling doesn't burn many calories. Intense cycling is another matter ... I've done 6 hour rides where my heart rate on the flat averaged well over 155 bpm, and on the hills was more like 175-180 bpm with peaks of 195 bpm. On rides like that, the weight just falls off me.

I agree that intense skipping and running burn more calories than similarly intense cycling but I can't do them because of my dodgy joints. Cycling doesn't cause me any joint pain as long as I use low enough gears and carefully mount and dismount the bike.


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## Rafreg (10 Jun 2011)

Fully agree with you Lizzy zero carbs will kick start but is not a good long term solution. Again as I said the only way is a proper _balanced_ diet. Simply as that, and only you will know if you are eating correctly


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## Rafreg (10 Jun 2011)

Also what I think we need to remember is everyone has their own opinions. Now I don't think any opinion is wrong, as everyone is different and response differently to various exercises. Well that's my opinion.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

Dan B said:


> Not clear what you're saying here - ice skating is good or is not so good? I inline skate a lot and I'd guess it's roughly as effective as cycling (per time, not by distance) with the difference that you can't sit down and your knees are bent more or less all the time.
> 
> Mind you, I'm talking about speed skating, and I think from your previous comments you're more into the artistic side?



ahhhhhhhhhhhhh the calculator is there, Most efficient weight loss are the activities where you whole body is mobilised. Personally speaking I loose more per hour ice skating the cycling at say 14 mps. Both pail in comparison to skipping. 

If you think about the physics.... 

A person can life a weight X, but the person clan life X weight more easily using a winch, however by using the winch its gentler on the body, AND it burns less calories. So you can either lift weight X more times OR lift say XX. When a person cycles the bike, gears etc carry and empower your leg muscles. When you skip, run or do any non assisted with suitable vigor you body is put under more stress, and burns more calories. 

LOL 

So I've been doing an average of 10 hours of working out a week majority being cycling ( skating, ballet and a very little skipping). Average loss per week has been 0.51 lbs (this is on c.1300-1400 calories per day). This week I've again done approximate 10 hours cycling, with an average of 30 mins skipping a day and 4 ballet work outs and some cycling and I've lost 2.9 lbs - which I would expect to reduce each week by that amount, but I do expect it to come off quicker. I have a metabolic issue which makes weight loss really difficult so I do have to go to full on to loose much. c.10 years ago I out on 3 stone very quickly after a bereavement, bought a stationary bike and cycled on it hell for leather for months and also walked home form work which was a bit over an hour, the total reduction in 3 months was something like 3 lbs. Eventually I got savvy and bought a skipping rope, and the weight simply fell off, took about 3 months of skipping ballet to be into a size I'd never been since I was a teenager. 

The bottom line is there are more time efficient ways to loose weight than cycling. The Op is about weight loss not basic fitness. 

If you want to shrink a cloths size do ballet (or I guess pilates)


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## screenman (10 Jun 2011)

So where does HR come into this? My wife did pilates for 3 years and put on 5lb, she lost it in 3 weeks following Mydailplate and eating a sensible diet.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

screenman said:


> From what I can find skipping burs off about 600 to 800 calories per hour cycling 400 to 700, so if we take an average say 700 skipping and 550 for cycling then you would need to cycle for 1hour 36 minutes longer to burn off 1lb in fat. Now 3 short sessions of skipping I would find restrictive as in building up to a sweaty state and wanting to shower afterwards, personal hygiene and all that. I would say that you are eating different amounts which is why you are noticeable losing weight with your skipping, doing exercise 3 times per day rather than once will change the way you eat.
> 
> I see you recommend brisk walking over cycling for the overweight with bad joints, that flies in the face of any other recommendations I have ever seen, cycling is none weight bearing on the joints or at least far less than walking is so it is unlikely to cause the same amount of damage to the joints.
> 
> ...




You need to go to the physo is you have issues over joints, I'm a former nurse for people with dissabilites, so certainly not a physio, but I'm pretty confident cycling is harder on joints than walking. 

And no I don't eat less skipping than I do cycling. 

You are saying pretty much the same thing, as you get fitter you need to put more in... your body normalise the efforts therefore you have to increase, sometime people don't have more time, or the ability to exert more due to the physicial location. My bro in his haul to Tasmania was cycling 7 hours a day, not saying you do 20 mps on Iranian dirt tracks, but basically the body gets use to it.

Again there are *more efficent method of loosing weight*,


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

screenman said:


> So where does HR come into this? My wife did pilates for 3 years and put on 5lb, she lost it in 3 weeks following Mydailplate and eating a sensible diet.



Pilates I've not done but I do ballet are generally nice work outs, and actually fabulous to shrink in size - lots of women have issues where the muscles are far from toned. you can drop a dress size in 10 days with that type of work out. On it's own it shrinks and tightens doesn't burn much in my experience. cycling on top will help with eight loss, but if you wan tot loose it quicker, jogging, running, skipping etc... will help loose lbs. 

For many women the right course is to throw out the scales and buy a measuring tap because their goal is to get thing, not to get 

the HR thing has very varied advice given, loads of differences on web pages over the most effective method of weight loss. There is a huge difference between fitness, weight and size. HR 'd say is about core fitness


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## screenman (10 Jun 2011)

Seen the physio, doctor, consultant both NHS and private. I packed up racing 10 years ago and now limit my cycling to only 100 and a bit miles per week.

I am not against your skipping, however this is not good advice for overweight people.

Why would cycling be harder on joints when your bottom carries a lot of your weight compared with walking where your legs/knee's carry it all? I am always curious as to how people think, which is why I ask so many questions.

At the end of the day the success of weight loss is more about self motivation and self control and finding that which works for you, I am yet to try ballet.

Have fun and keep pedaling.


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## ColinJ (10 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> You need to go to the physo is you have issues over joints, I'm a former nurse for people with dissabilites, so certainly not a physio, but I'm pretty confident cycling is harder on joints than walking.


It isn't if you have a bike that fits you and you use low enough gears!

As you have pointed out several times, a bike supports your body weight. If I am spinning a nice low gear then I am hardly putting any force on my knees and hips - my sit bones are taking a big proportion of my weight. If I use excessively high gears though, yes, those joints do complain.

When walking, the only way you can take the weight off your legs is to use walking poles and even then there is a limit to it. Walking is inherently harder on your joints because of having to support your body weight. Having said that, it is better for your bone density than cycling for exactly the same reason. I do both.

I can't run any more and skipping would kill my hips and knees. I'm still okay with walking as long as I don't scramble over too many rocks or walk down too many steep descents (both of which can hurt). Cycling is fine unless I overgear.

As for the weight loss question. It still boils down to calories in versus calories out. Appetite control may be easier with certain foods than others. Some people have faster metabolisms than others, but if you don't take in the calories you are burning, then you will lose weight. There isn't any question about it. 

If somebody puts you on a treadmill for 5 hours a day and only gives you 1,000 calories worth of food plus water, then you will lose weight. You might not lose as much as my skinny fast-burning mate who needs to eat about 5,000 calories a day just to stay skinny, but you will lose weight. 

To deny that is to suggest that you have discovered a perpetual motion system within your own body. If you have, then I suggest you get it checked out and patented because you will solve the world's energy crisis and earn yourself a fortune!


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

screenman said:


> Seen the physio, doctor, consultant both NHS and private. I packed up racing 10 years ago and now limit my cycling to only 100 and a bit miles per week.
> 
> I am not against your skipping, however this is not good advice for overweight people.
> 
> ...



I don't think skipping is for everyone either, it depends on how healthy/fit the over weight person is. Sometimes you need to work up to it, but there are lots of alternatives, the activities list on the link is a good start point.... At my fattest (not heaviest), I was only able to walk around blocks, but do that lots........ it was only after I'd lost a bit I could pick up intensity. Weirdly enough at my heaviest I have been super fit. go figure. LOL very different. 

Cycling moves your leg joints in very specific ways that other work out don't. Also ergonomic issue spring up with saddle height and bike adjustments far more common than most non equipment based activities. I believe jogging is pretty hard and skipping also.... ice skate I believe is much gentler, at least you see the septogenerians there in quiet times. If you have joint issues you ought to always seek a physio, or I'm sure NHS direct can also advise at the end of the phone.

Motivation really is about what works for you, never done the whole weight loss club in a public way (sometimes done online - but more to motivate others). I weight (have fancy scales that pretend they know how much muscle etc - not convinced) but also measure. I want to be a smaller size as much as i want to be light, hence when the scales wont budge I sometimes loose inches.

Think the discussion is valuable.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> When walking, the only way you can take the weight off your legs is to use walking poles and even then there is a limit to it. Walking is inherently harder on your joints because of having to support your body weight. Having said that, it is better for your bone density than cycling for exactly the same reason. I do both.
> 
> 
> I can't run any more and skipping would kill my hips and knees. I'm still okay with walking as long as I don't scramble over too many rocks or walk down too many steep descents (both of which can hurt). Cycling is fine unless I overgear.



If you have specific health issues, then the physio is the right call point (or NHS direct if you are having trouble getting to see a physio). 

High efficient weight loss methods aren't available to you (through physical injury or lack of mobility) then look at the next best, which may well be spin classes for your conditions. Various water sports are also good for people who have joint issues, ie the water resistance is gentle on the joints but taught enough on the muscles. Your physio ought to be able to advise on the most efficient weight loss method for your bodies conditions.


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## Glover Fan (10 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> You need to go to the physo is you have issues over joints, I'm a former nurse for people with dissabilites, so certainly not a physio, but I'm pretty confident cycling is harder on joints than walking.


My wife IS a Physio and says you are wrong.


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## ColinJ (10 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> If you have specific health issues, then the physio is the right call point (or NHS direct if you are having trouble getting to see a physio).


I call it a _gene_ problem[sup]1[/sup], not a _health_ problem! My family suffer from osteoarthritis and I seem to be following in my father's footsteps. Both his hips went in his 50s. Fortunately, I spend most of my time in front of a computer rather than doing hard physical work so I'm not damaging my hips as quickly as he damaged his.

Keeping my weight down is the most important thing I can do to protect my joints, together with avoiding the activities which hurt them, and doing more of the ones that don't.



Lizzy said:


> High efficient weight loss methods aren't available to you (through physical injury or lack of mobility) then look at the next best, which may well be spin classes for your conditions.


The highly efficient weight loss methods of taking in fewer calories and vigorous cycling are both available to me. I have done many one day rides taking off over a pound of body fat. I'm not talking fluid losses here. I've come back from rides weighing 7 pounds less than when I set off because I haven't been able to get enough fluids in, but when I'm fully rehydrated, a 1.0-1.5 pound loss remains. I've lost an inch off my waist in one day!



Lizzy said:


> Various water sports are also good for people who have joint issues, ie the water resistance is gentle on the joints but taught enough on the muscles.


I actually like swimming but haven't done it for years. I only do breast stroke and the kick action gets to my hips. I would be okay with the crawl leg action, but I never mastered the breathing technique. I might give it a go some time.

The reason why I am 3 stone overweight is because I drink too much beer, simple as that. If I ride my bike frequently and get plenty of walks in, I easily lose 2+ pounds a week. When I tried really hard, I was losing 3-4 pounds a week but I felt that was excessive, probably not healthy.

I can put weight on quickly but also lose it quickly so I must be one of those people with a very predictable metabolism. My body does exactly what you'd expect it to do - it stores surplus calories as fat but easily burns fat when required to.

[sup]1[/sup]_It's not all bad news though - both sides of my family tend to live well into their 80s, 90s, or even 100s!_ 


[sup]
[/sup]


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## Baggy (10 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I actually like swimming but haven't done it for years. I only do breast stroke and the kick action gets to my hips. I would be okay with the crawl leg action, but I never mastered the breathing technique. I might give it a go some time.


When I recently saw a physio due to my knee woes she suggested swimming but advised me not to swim breast stroke as it would twist the bit of the knee I was trying to recuperate - she suggested I combine breast stroke arm movements with crawl kicking. In the end I didn't bother, as I hate swimming!

She was of the opinion that as long as your biomechanics and position are ok, cycling is pretty good for your joints.

Whilst I agree there _are_ quicker of losing weight than cycling, I'd never argue that it's a bad way to lose weight if you enjoy it. Even though I've cycled regularly for 8 years if I up the mileage, even at low intensity, the weight comes off.

FWIW my brother was a bike courier for 10 years, riding approx 400 miles per week. I don't think he ever "normalised"! as Lizzy puts it - if he didn't stuff his face he lost weight as well as inches! As mentioned up thread I think this is where intensity comes into it - courier work is high intensity so has a high burn rate.


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

Glover Fan said:


> My wife IS a Physio and says you are wrong.




As I said I'm no physio...


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## Lizzy (10 Jun 2011)

ColinJ said:


> I call it a _gene_ problem[sup]1[/sup], not a _health_ problem! My family suffer from osteoarthritis and I seem to be following in my father's footsteps. Both his hips went in his 50s. Fortunately, I spend most of my time in front of a computer rather than doing hard physical work so I'm not damaging my hips as quickly as he damaged his.
> 
> Keeping my weight down is the most important thing I can do to protect my joints, together with avoiding the activities which hurt them, and doing more of the ones that don't.
> 
> ...



One of my bro's has similar issues, is getting some full on treatment these days. kind of like myself you are trapped between a rock and a hard place...you need to keep the weight down to keep the symptoms away. high impact almost always means bad for body/joints etc... water being one of the few ways to increase resistance without negatives. But serious listen to your physio not me.. The reason I'm over weight is I gave the fags up and went onto haggen das for 6 month...I deserve it, but full fat ice cream is a bitch to move.... My endocrines converts carbs into fats X times quicker than the average... the dietician was like reduce your calories down to 1200 and keep it there for life... and I'm like, well actually I can pretty much eat what I like when my weight is down and it takes about 2 year before it creeps up. 

You have my sympathies its a very painful condition 

Avoid the beer - which is easier said than done, but the government is due to hike prices so you may have a curfu on you sooner than you think. Have a look through the activities and see which ones are gentle on the joins, and don't just think swimming, water aerobics or volley ball etc may be a fun way to just get active without it feeling like working out... which means you will want to do it rather than a chore. 

I can say 100% sure, I prefer cycling (and skating) far, far more than skipping, although I do the latter quite often during soaps.... 



Oh for those low carbing... a top tip from Ms carbs really screw me up.... load your carb intake earlier in the day... Ie if you are having 150 grams of carb in the whole day, have 50 for breakfast, 80 for lunch and 20 for dinner. Breakfast as per, lunch has 2 portions of carbs and 1 portion of protein and dinner has 2 protein one carb. So you may have chicken advocado and a slice of bread at lunch (or soups or what have you)... and for dinner two spoons of stew and 1 potion of potatoe. That way you are not hungry and you have lot of the day to burn the carb off in your daily activity.


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## screenman (10 Jun 2011)

Lizzy, are you still over weight?


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## Nebulous (11 Jun 2011)

Lizzy - despite your obvious enthusiasm this just isn't going to work. 

This is a cycling forum. It also appears to me to be largely populated by middle age men. Ballet and skipping is likely to be a very difficult sell.

If it works for you then good for you- however most of your evidence just doesn't stack up. It's hard to accept an argument that goes something like - cycling doesn't work because the bike carries your weight making it too easy- yet at the same time it's harder on your joints? 

I lost 69 pounds in just over a year- losing at least a pound a week every single week except for two weeks over Christmas. I did it by running a calorie deficit - burning more than I consumed. For almost everybody that is the way to go. 

Your body doesn't normalise - what it tries to do is achieve balance. On a long tour you will go slower than many people on here ride, your body wil become more efficient - and you will up your calories to match.

Most people who get on the diet cycle go too fast, then revert back to old habits and pile it back on again. My intention was to take it slow and steady whilst embedding some real lifestyle changes that I can keep now that I have stopped losing weight.


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## lulubel (11 Jun 2011)

Lizzy said:


> cycling on top will help with eight loss, but if you wan tot loose it quicker, jogging, running, skipping etc... will help loose lbs.



Interesting.

Since I run and cycle, I'll compare those two.

I burn around 600 calories an hour running, or 500 calories an hour cycling.

The longest I can realistically run for on a regular basis is an hour every other day (can't run every day because it's too hard on my joints). The longest I can realistically cycle for on a regular basis is 1.5 hours every day.

That's 600 calories every 2 days from running or
1500 calories every 2 days from cycling

That would explain why the weight started falling off me when I switched my focus from running to cycling.


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## MacB (12 Jun 2011)

I think ColinJ must be quite a similar body type to me, I rate cycling at an average 1lb per 100 miles as well. I don't need to diet for that as, for some reason, the more active I am the less I crave the sort of junk that puts weight on for me. From my current weight I would start losing at about 4lbs a week and that would drop off after the first 20lbs or so to abround the 2lb a week mark. But I can guarantee that if I cycled consistently, at least 200 miles per week, then I could lose about 70lbs in 7000 miles or 35 weeks. That would see me around the 12.5 stone mark and, at that point, fitness targets would take over from weight loss.


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