# Australian Cyclists Party



## Shut Up Legs (22 Oct 2013)

After a forum search, I couldn't find any other thread about this, but if there is, please let me know, moderators .

I don't know if it's made news in the UK, but a new political party has just formed in Australia, or at least it's accepting new members and will (fairly soon, I think) have the requisite member numbers to register itself as an official party. It's called the *Australian Cyclists Party* .

I'll just say that I'm quietly optimistic that this party will help cycling in Australia, because being pessimistic isn't much fun, is it?

Here's two recent news articles about it:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pedal-power-motorists-poll-guru-changes-gear-20131018-2vscx.html
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-sty...itical-party-for-cyclists-20131021-2vvew.html


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## classic33 (22 Oct 2013)

Should we start one up here.


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## buggi (22 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> Should we start one up here.


 yes!


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## classic33 (22 Oct 2013)

How do we go about funding it?


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## Ern1e (22 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> How do we go about funding it?


 I don't know but it sounds a damed good idea IMO


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## classic33 (22 Oct 2013)

Elections are in May, so we can't hang around.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Oct 2013)

I'm in: we don't need a separate English and Scottish party for cycling!
@classic33 : you organize!


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

@Pat "5mph", @Ern1e, @buggi, @victor, and anyone else interested

*We need the following:*
As an overview, the registered entries for political parties show:
The party name and head office address
The party emblems
The party descriptions
The party officers' names.

Parties on the GB register also select which parts of Great Britain they want to be registered in.
Parties can choose a combination of England, Scotland or Wales.
People required for the following posistions: Volunteers if possible.
*Party leader* - To lead the party.
*Party treasurer* - Will be responsible for the party's compliance with the financial rules.
*Nominating officer* - Who will authorise candidates to stand for election and use the party name on ballot papers.

*Also*
As part of the application, we will need to send the party's constitution. This will cover things like how the party is organised and how it carries out business.

The Electoral Commission will use our constitution to check if there is anything in it which will conflict with our financial scheme under PPERA. 
For example, how our accounts are signed off.
There are no requirements about what the party constituion should set out, but you may want to include the following:
The structure of your party for example, if you have branches.
How the party is run for example, the frequency of meetings and how decisions are made.
What officers you have and what their responsibilities are.
If you have membership requirements.

Thinking caps on please.


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## Sara_H (23 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> @Pat "5mph", @Ern1e, @buggi, @victor, and anyone else interested
> 
> *We need the following:*
> As an overview, the registered entries for political parties show:
> ...



Good luck!


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Good luck!


 You not joining?


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## Sara_H (23 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> You not joining?


What are our policies going to be? We can't agree on anything round here. If we win and form the next government we'll spend so much time scrapping over helmets and headphones that nowt'll get done!


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

@welsh dragon, you not joining?


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

Hey. Im in. If we ban cars, there wont be any need for cycle lanes.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Oct 2013)

I am a foreign national, cannot stand for elections, heck, can't even vote at the nationals!
Could be PR? Press office?


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

Doesn't matter if your not british. As long as you can ride a bike your in.


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Sara_H said:


> What are our policies going to be? We can't agree on anything round here. If we win and form the next government we'll spend so much time scrapping over helmets and headphones that nowt'll get done!


 Helmets are left to personal choice. Head phones should be viewed in much the same way as mobile phone use for drivers.


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I am a foreign national, cannot stand for elections, heck, can't even vote at the nationals!
> Could be PR? Press office?


Have you checked if your name is actually on the register:





Isn't Italy an EU Member State?


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Oct 2013)

@classic33 : I said the national election, I know I can vote at the locals.
Will the cycling party need an MP and an MSP?


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> @classic33 : I said the national election, I know I can vote at the locals.
> Will the cycling party need an MP and an MSP?



Why can't we have both. After all this is a new party isn't it. ?


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Oct 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> Why can't we have both. After all this is a new party isn't it. ?


How are we gonna pay them???


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> @classic33 : I said the national election, I know I can vote at the locals.
> Will the cycling party need an MP and an MSP?


 Start at the local elections, no deposits required by those standing. We'd be able to cover a larger area at a local level. Registration is also slightly easier, for Local as opposed to National Elections. Unless you want to stand for MSP?


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

We can make drivers pay. After all they're always complaining that cyclists Dot pay they're way.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> Start at the local elections, no deposits required by those standing. We'd be able to cover a larger area at a local level. Registration is also slightly easier, for Local as opposed to National Elections. *Unless you want to stand for MSP?*


Cannae!!! Told you I am a foreigner!
Anyhow, want to do press and pr


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

At local level, you are able to keep your expenses to a minimum. If all paperwork is more or less the the same, across the country, then the only variations required would be for the person standing. This could be done with a smaller flyer describing the local candidate.

At the Local Elections I have managed to cover the ward, one of the largest in the area, for £100 - £120. Having done all my own printing. That money can be claimed back, out of principle I've never reclaimed a penny.


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Cannae!!! Told you I am a foreigner!
> Anyhow, want to do press and pr


 You can do Press & PR, but you realise your allowed to stand at local level.
That would be one post filled.
Anyone know about large scale T-Shirt printing costs & where the best deals could be got from?


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Cannae!!! Told you I am a foreigner!
> Anyhow, want to do press and pr


 So you really want to be an MSP & see the local elections as your first step on the way there?


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## Sara_H (23 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> Helmets are left to personal choice. Head phones should be viewed in much the same way as mobile phone use for drivers.


Can you just use one to listen to the satnav?


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

I don't know anything about printing t shirts.


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## Sara_H (23 Oct 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> We can make drivers pay. After all they're always complaining that cyclists Dot pay they're way.


They don't even pay bike tax!


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)




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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Sara_H said:


> Can you just use one to listen to the satnav?


You use SatNav on a bike?


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## classic33 (23 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Cannae!!! Told you I am a foreigner!
> Anyhow, want to do press and pr


As Bob The Builder might say,




"Yes you can!"


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

@classic33 erm I have an old garmins sat nav that I use. I only go around local places so I don't need anything expensive. Don't laugh.


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## welsh dragon (23 Oct 2013)

Looking at that I qualify.


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

welsh dragon said:


> Looking at that I qualify.


You could try for the Welsh Assembly.


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

On a serious note, if set up, how many would be willing to stand come May?


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

User said:


> Who would be the party leader, as @classic33 is clearly cut out to be the Nominating Officer? I reckon @dellzeqq for Leader...


 Does that mean you'll be standing at the local level, come May?


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## Shut Up Legs (24 Oct 2013)

@classic33, I like the idea of a UK Cyclists Party (or whatever you'd call it) , but I'm not eligible to vote in UK elections, as I need to be (a) a Commonwealth citizen (which I am, of course) and (b) have indefinite leave to remain in the UK (which I don't).

I'd have to become a permanent UK resident, as far as I can tell, and believe it or not, I've considered the idea, because I'm fed up with how cyclists are treated here, and it seems pretty clear to me that the UK is more advanced in how it treats cyclists than Australia. Plus those Welsh mountains are calling me... I can hear them saying "_Cycle up me, Victor, you know you want to..._".


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

@victor 
Awaiting a response to an email sent today,with regards their manifesto & whether we'd be allowed to adapt it to suit the UK rules. So for the time being its sit & wait.


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## Shut Up Legs (24 Oct 2013)

OK, then . I'll be watching developments with interest.


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

This reply tonight




Hi,
Well, I'm all for a I Cycle, I Vote global movement!
Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but we have considered an umbrella under icycleivote.com linked to national movements so that we benefit from each other. We can chat about that more later.
I have no idea what your cycling conditions are like there, we feel they are generally rather appalling here with roadside manners to suit. So our approach may or not be useful to you.
We have still to write our constitution as we are contesting first at state level and have to develop ones to suit each. Should we gain momentum through a reasonable showing in Victoria's elections in late 2014 then NSW and other states will be in play. Federal and local elections are also possibilities.
You should look through our website and some of the other coverage (the SBS piece in particular) to get an idea of where we are coming from but we are very clearly positioning ourselves as pro-cycling, not anti-motorist party. We are not just looking to stick it to the motorists, that would never get us the broad support we need to actually gain a seat. Many cyclists are of course also motorists at some point.
We are also clearly tapping into a broad constituency where bicycling appeals for a lot of reasons - commuting, recreation, holidays, utility, MTB, etc. Cycling is not just a "greens" issue anymore and breaking that link has already been clearly reflected in who is joining up here - lots of "conservatives" – the Boris brigade?
We are positioning cycling as the core of positive change in and for a community.
The first decision for your group is whether you just want to use your effort just as a pulpit, or do you really want to win a seat and do all it takes to make that possible? We are not discussing MHL or any other divisive cycling issues. This would be death by a thousand cuts. Stay focussed on the prime objective and let that carry you. The major parties learned long ago that a lot of detail out early just sets you up for being pulled apart. We are merely saying that if we are successful many things may be possible for cyclists and cycling. Focus on what is not happening today and could change with a voice in government. Without unity we remain just where we are. So far, this is working.
Have one person you can trust as your "spiritual leader" that is given full authority to guide things. This person may not in fact be your candidate at the end – but has to have the respect of enough of the core constituency to be trusted to do what is best overall. As cyclists we find this hard to do, but without it there will be no clear message and room for lots of splinter groups and factions – another sure way to kill your effort before it has a chance. Once you gain momentum (because there will be a lot of doubters) I think you will see a lot of people joining in.
We have also engaged an insider political savvy person who happens to be a passionate cyclist to ensure we understand what it will take and to get us properly positioned and can help us work out the preferential deals that we have here in Australia.
But to keep all of this in context, even with a thousand members in just ten days, we have a lot of work to do and the odds are still stacked against our success. It was just me, a website and an iPad at a bicycle show that got this going. The feedback was energising and assured us that it was worth moving forward.
I hope this is somehow helpful, please keep in touch, would love to help out as I can if you indeed decide to move forward. Happy to Skype as well at some point.
Kind regards,
Omar Khalifa
Founder
ACP

So are those who said they were interested at the start still interested?


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## classic33 (24 Oct 2013)

We have a party constitution to come up with, so it get your thinking caps. Given the response from the Austrailian Cyclist Party.
@Pat "5mph", hows the press release coming on?


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## classic33 (25 Oct 2013)

victor said:


> @classic33, I like the idea of a UK Cyclists Party (or whatever you'd call it) , but I'm not eligible to vote in UK elections, as I need to be (a) a Commonwealth citizen (which I am, of course) and (b) have indefinite leave to remain in the UK (which I don't).
> 
> I'd have to become a permanent UK resident, as far as I can tell, and believe it or not, I've considered the idea, because I'm fed up with how cyclists are treated here, and it seems pretty clear to me that the UK is more advanced in how it treats cyclists than Australia. Plus those Welsh mountains are calling me... I can hear them saying "_Cycle up me, Victor, you know you want to..._".


You could also consider a few of the Yorkshire inclines! Britains longest continuous climb is not too far from me & its included in the TDF next year.


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## Shut Up Legs (25 Oct 2013)

I like your work, @classic33!  I found that response from Omar Khalifa very encouraging, as it gives more insight into his thinking. Thanks for that. Was it an email to you, or from a web site?


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## classic33 (25 Oct 2013)

@victor 
Out of curiosity, are you in any way connected with the ACP? 
If you are, any ideas as regards what to include in our manifesto?
We get that drawn up & the first three positions filled, we can upon payment register the party.
The ACP have registered the party, but now need to meet a number, membership wise, before being allowed to stand in the elections. We'd not face such a barrier.


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## classic33 (25 Oct 2013)

Email was a response received last night, our time, in response to one I'd sent to them(ACP) via the contact address given on their site. He's offerred to keep his eyes on what we're doing & help if he's able.


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## icycle ivote (25 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> Email was a response received last night, our time, in response to one I'd sent to them(ACP) via the contact address given on their site. He's offerred to keep his eyes on what we're doing & help if he's able.


Hi, just checking in briefly... thanks for inviting me along! My email may have sounded like we had a lot of answers but we are just learning the ropes like all of you and getting up to speed on how things really work...


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## icycle ivote (25 Oct 2013)

The idealism vs pragmatism balance is what we heard over and over again as what undermined smaller parties and caused them to splinter and fail... it can be really, really hard to let go of certain principles that many hold dear but may be shackles on electoral success. We had to sort that out very candidly with the organising committee and I think there will be some uneasy squirming and line drawing discussions in front of us yet... not a ride suitable for everyone.


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## Shut Up Legs (25 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> @victor
> Out of curiosity, are you in any way connected with the ACP?
> If you are, any ideas as regards what to include in our manifesto?
> We get that drawn up & the first three positions filled, we can upon payment register the party.
> The ACP have registered the party, but now need to meet a number, membership wise, before being allowed to stand in the elections. We'd not face such a barrier.


No connection, other than the fact that I've signed up to join them. I'm not the politicking type, and public speaking of any kind scares me, but I'm happy to support the party, even as a paying member when the party gets around to sorting that detail out. No particularly useful ideas, either, sorry .


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## classic33 (25 Oct 2013)

victor said:


> No connection, other than the fact that I've signed up to join them. I'm not the politicking type, and public speaking of any kind scares me, but I'm happy to support the party, even as a paying member when the party gets around to sorting that detail out. No particularly useful ideas, either, sorry .


 It was simply because you pointed them out & the fact that you live "down under" in Austrailia, that made me ask that question.
I've stood at local level for a number of years,so I'm quite at home with filling & filing the paperwork required for elections.
If we are looking at taking this issue to a national level then I'd need to know who is actually in & who is in just to disrupt it, before it gets a chance to get started.
We have under the regulations,a manifesto to produce before were able to file the registraion papers, as well as finding the three officers mentioned earlier. Then we can set to and start working on what we actually hope to achieve as a party across the country. So on that basis any imput by people on here would be welcome.
If they feel like standing in the Local Elections in May, as Independents, I'm willing to help them with the paperwork.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Oct 2013)

I need some critical information first: If I were to be elected could I claim allowances for a second bike? And could I rent out my main bike to my best mate?

GC


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## Linford (25 Oct 2013)

Does the party naturally lean to the left, right or straight down the centre ?


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## classic33 (25 Oct 2013)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I need some critical information first: If I were to be elected could I claim allowances for a second bike? And could I rent out my main bike to my best mate?
> 
> GC


You can claim the allowances incurred during the election & after, if elected, you claim as a car user would. What Ward in Glasgow do I put you down for?


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## classic33 (26 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Cannae!!! Told you I am a foreigner!
> Anyhow, want to do press and pr


Hows the press campaign going/coming?


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## snorri (30 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I'm in: we don't need a separate English and Scottish party for cycling!


We do really, transport is a devolved issue.


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## classic33 (30 Oct 2013)

snorri said:


> We do really, transport is a devolved issue.


Is this you putting your name forward for the May Elections next year?

Is it as devolved as you think though? Regional variations will always occur, but the problems faced by us as cyclists will nearly always be the same where ever we live/cycle.
IF we were to get it up & running then two major issues could be brought into play. These being the fuel duty levy on petrol/diesel & the ever popular "Road Tax". On the latter we may be able to disprove once & for all that only money raised in this way is ever used to fund the road network, whilst at the same time getting improvements made to the roads themselves. Improvements that benefit all who use them.


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## snorri (30 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> Is this you putting your name forward for the May Elections next year?.


The May Election?


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## classic33 (30 Oct 2013)

snorri said:


> The May Election?


The May Elections, held on the first Thursday of May.
What ward do I put you down for?


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## Pat "5mph" (30 Oct 2013)

classic33 said:


> The May Elections, held on the first Thursday of May.
> *What ward do I put you down for?*


Put me in the chocolate detox ward


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## classic33 (30 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Put me in the chocolate detox ward


 I get the idea you're not taking this too seriously!!


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## classic33 (30 Oct 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Put me in the chocolate detox ward


 We can do that afterwards if you really want to.


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## classic33 (16 Nov 2013)

Given the increase in the number of cyclists killed within the last two weeks & the increase in coverage in the media, over those incidents. Worded that way because in some cases arrests have been made.
How many on here would be willing to stand in the local elections in May as members of a cyclists party?
We can go on about how little is being done, with those elected to represent us, doing their best to ignore us, or we can take the fight to them & make them listen!


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## Pat "5mph" (16 Nov 2013)

You need money and time to be a politician, Classic.
We should also agree on basic issues: on reading this forum it seems we have scattered agenda.


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## classic33 (16 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> You need money and time to be a politician, Classic.
> We should also agree on basic issues: on reading this forum it seems we have scattered agenda.


 And what about standing just to make the point. That costs nothing, other than a bit of time form filling.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> And what about standing just to make the point. That costs nothing, other than a bit of time form filling.


You would need some sort of PR campaign to make the electorate aware of your existence.
Which would take time and money.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> You would need some sort of PR campaign to make the electorate aware of your existence.
> Which would take time and money.


 I've stood in the local elections, spending my own money & seldom taking it over the £100 mark. All of which can be claimed back after the election.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> I've stood in the local elections, spending my own money & seldom taking it over the £100 mark. All of which can be claimed back after the election.


Did you get elected?


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## rich p (17 Nov 2013)

Call me a fool but I have an idea this aint going to take off!


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Did you get elected?


 No, but should that stop me trying. MP is wary of me, when it comes to local issues as are the local council. The fact that I didn't get in shouldn't come down to money as there is a cap on spending.
The fact remains that I am treated as a threat to their election hopes.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> Call me a fool but I have an idea this aint going to take off!


 Why shouldn't it take off?


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## rich p (17 Nov 2013)

no wings


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## Shut Up Legs (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Given the increase in the number of cyclists killed within the last two weeks & the increase in coverage in the media, over those incidents. Worded that way because in some cases arrests have been made.
> How many on here would be willing to stand in the local elections in May as members of a cyclists party?
> We can go on about how little is being done, with those elected to represent us, doing their best to ignore us, or we can take the fight to them & make them listen!


Good luck with that, @classic33 . I probably couldn't join you on this, not being a UK resident, but I'll be interested to see how it goes! Meanwhile, in Australia, the ACP has just reached its required numbers for registering itself as a political party, so that's the first hurdle jumped.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

rich p said:


> no wings


 Would you consider standing in the local elections?


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> No, but should that stop me trying. MP is wary of me, when it comes to local issues as are the local council. *The fact that I didn't get in shouldn't come down to money as there is a cap on spending.*
> The fact remains that I am treated as a threat to their election hopes.


Shouldn't is an ephemeral word 
You never got in because: your agenda was not interesting/appealing to the electorate and/or not enough people knew about it.
Try again with a bigger PR budget.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> Good luck with that, @classic33 . I probably couldn't join you on this, not being a UK resident, but I'll be interested to see how it goes! Meanwhile, in Australia, the ACP has just reached its required numbers for registering itself as a political party, so that's the first hurdle jumped.


 We don't have a minimum number of members before registering.



Pat "5mph" said:


> Shouldn't is an ephemeral word
> You never got in because: your agenda was not interesting/appealing to the electorate and/or not enough people knew about it.
> Try again with a bigger PR budget.


I responded to one of the largest complaints that people have at election tines. That being the amount of election material people were getting shoved through their letter boxes.
As you volunteered for the Press Agent & PR, wouldn't you cover that part?


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

I would if I had the time: regrettably I must work to feed the cat


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Thats one of the better get out lines I've heard. Although you could let @Mad Doug Biker look after it!!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Nov 2013)

I have always wondered what makes a person think other people who usually do not know them will vote for them.
Especially if it is a very limited focus issue, such as cycling.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Thats one of the better get out lines I've heard. Although you could let @Mad Doug Biker look after it!!


Yes, he's got more spare time than I do. So do you btw 



Marmion said:


> I have always wondered what makes a person think other people who usually do not know them will vote for them.
> Especially if it is a very limited focus issue, such as cycling.


Empathy for the manifesto.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Marmion said:


> I have always wondered what makes a person think other people who usually do not know them will vote for them.
> Especially if it is a very limited focus issue, such as cycling.


 Its not just down to the cycling. Road improvements would benefit all. Inclusion within a school can pay off in a few years. Peoples health may also benefit. An increase in those that cycle off-road could lead to better facilities for walkers as well.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

@Marmion, I take it you refrain from voting then?


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## Pro Tour Punditry (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> @Marmion, I take it you refrain from voting then?


 
I refrain from voting for people who only seem to have a very narrow or badly thought-out focus.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Yes, he's got more spare time than I do. So do you btw


Getting assaulted at work and having the person who assaulted me complaining because I refused to serve him afterwards wasn't my choice. However his complaint was upheld, twice, & I'm out of work due to being assaulted. So I have more time you're right.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Marmion said:


> I refrain from voting for people who only seem to have a very narrow or badly thought-out focus.


 Define or better still give a better thought out focus, than improving the area in which you live, for all that live & work there. Small improvements can have a big impact on those, you & others are asking to be elected on.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Getting assaulted at work and having the person who assaulted me complaining because I refused to serve him afterwards wasn't my choice. However his complaint was upheld, twice, & I'm out of work due to being assaulted. So I have more time you're right.


Sorry to hear that: until you get another job, you could start up the cyclist party.
Not all by yourself though, you need help by somebody with political background.
Alas, not me, I'm the most undiplomatic person ever 
If I had time I would be good at the pr, as I've got the gift of the gab.
Maybe at pension age I'll give it a go.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Sorry to hear that: until you get another job, you could start up the cyclist party.
> Not all by yourself though, you need help by somebody with political background.
> Alas, not me, I'm the most undiplomatic person ever
> If I had time I would be good at the pr, as I've got the gift of the gab.
> Maybe at pension age I'll give it a go.


Not even for the chocolate, and no thats not a bribe. Pat mentioned is as part of her conditions of doing the Press & PR work.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Define or better still give a better thought out focus, than improving the area in which you live, for all that live & work there. Small improvements can have a big impact on those, you & others are asking to be elected on.


 
I have never seen any party not to claim they wanted to improve things. Why would/should I vote for an individual or a single issue party saying just more of the same?


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## Pat "5mph" (18 Nov 2013)

Marmion said:


> I have never seen any party not to claim they wanted to improve things. Why would/should I vote for an individual or a single issue party saying just more of the same?


Zip it and indulge a fellow cyclist!


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Zip it and indulge a fellow cyclist!


 
At least you are acknowledging it being an indulgence.


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

It wouldn't be a "single issue party". If through what you are proposing you attack a single issue, then there's every chance you'd get voted in, if that single issue was making headlines at the time. I've seen it happen.
The Cyclist Party could, if formed & registered, could by its very existence make the major parties wonder why they never got past the thinking about it stage. One local councillor has followed my lead when it comes to local issues at election time & has been pulled up over them, causing an apology to be issued, or have his nomination voided. My choice, legally.
Its one reason why I said start at a local level, because those who live locally are more likely to be aware of the problems than someone who "moves" into the area soley for the election. A large number of people standing in the local elections, with the same purpose is what is done by the major parties. Only they're seeking to represent their interests & not yours.

@Marmion, have you thought of standing yourself as an independent, as oppossed to not voting. If not can I ask why, after all you have little to lose.


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

You need to broaden the manifesto.


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Dismount said:


> You need to broaden the manifesto.


 Open to suggestions.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> @Marmion, have you thought of standing yourself as an independent, as oppossed to not voting. If not can I ask why, after all you have little to lose.


 
I can't think why I would.


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## steveindenmark (18 Nov 2013)

By starting a single focus party you are excluding a lot of voters to begin with. take the Raving Monster Loonie Party. Apart from a handful of Raving Monster Loonies, who voted for them.

You need to have a Lets have a picnic Party or Bring back hanging party, which involves everyone.

We cant even agree with each other on here. How do you expect to form a political party?

Steve


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

steveindenmark said:


> By starting a single focus party you are excluding a lot of voters to begin with. take the Raving Monster Loonie Party. Apart from a handful of Raving Monster Loonies, who voted for them.
> 
> You need to have a Lets have a picnic Party or *Bring back hanging party*, which involves everyone.
> 
> ...


 He actually "lost" when he got elected.
Out of curiosity, whats your weight & height?


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Open to suggestions.



To focused on one particular subject improving safety of cycling and so on... Based on the core focus of the party the percentage of cyclist is below:-

10% cycle once a week
3% cycle 5 times per week
2% travel to work by bicycle 

While these figures fluctuate by region overall the percentage of people who cycle are low. To put it simply not enough people who care about cycling in the UK. To be successful you would need some cloak and dagger tactics, focus on the items people presently are concerned with:-

Economy
Jobs
Welfare
So on.... 

Once elected do what every other party does, ignore the core of the manifesto and do whatever you want


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Like the last piece, sell out once in.
But if a larger country, Australia in this case, can manage it, why shouldn't the same be done here?
I've said how improving the roads can benefit all who use them. Now I'll give an example of how such an improvement, done wrong, can make things worse for everyone who uses the roads, whilst saving the worst for cyclists.
The TDF comes through near me, next year, £500,000 has been set aside to repair the roads that will be used, for about an hour in total, to the detriment of every other road that needs repairing. Some of these other roads see heavy traffic use every day & one half mile stretch of road has generated 13+ claims for damage caused to vehicles & injury to individuals because the local council refuse to repair/maintain to a reasonable standard. Any chance it had of being repaired has now been put back by at least two years, because the money will not be there. Its been set to one side for a minority road user, who'll be gone within the hour.
Those other roads serve schools as well as industrial estates, but they are not classed as high priority. So companies are relocating, outside of the area, taking their employment elsewhere but taking money that would have been spent in the areas around their factories/warehouses with them as well.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> The TDF comes through near me, next year, £500,000 has been set aside to repair the roads that will be used, for about an hour in total...


 
There you go, you should be campaigning for more of the roads to be used in Grand Tours - get thyself onto the boss men of the Tour, Vuelta and Giro.


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

> £500,000 has been set aside to repair the roads that will be used, for about an hour in total,



Part and parcel of politics, speculate to accumulate. The TDF coming to the UK/Yorkshire hopefully will be a income generator and leave a net positive after spending on infrastructure etc.. Small business will also prosper during this period, more income for the Gov via taxes both direct and indirect. 

Need to look at large scale projects £500,000 is small change compared to the HS2 last estimate if my memory serves me correct is 40bn. This money could be better spent by donating to local councils to improve on, road, cycling infrastructure, rail (not to be doomsday philosopher, but fuel will only get more expensive). It is really that important to shave 20 minutes of a journey!


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Why don't more people cycle though?
Generally because they deem it unsafe in heavy traffic on badly maintained roads.
Want more people on bikes, improve the right roads for all that use them. Not one or two roads for a minority. Britains longest continuous hill climb is one road that is being fully repaired, for one hours expected use next year. Every other day it is & will be a quiet back road, seldom used by the majority.
The thin end of the wedge being driven in further to help alienate cyclists from every other road user!


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Why don't more people cycle though?
> Generally because they deem it unsafe in heavy traffic on badly maintained roads.
> Want more people on bikes, improve the right roads for all that use them. Not one or two roads for a minority. Britains longest continuous hill climb is one road that is being fully repaired, for one hours expected use next year. Every other day it is & will be a quiet back road, seldom used by the majority.
> The thin end of the wedge being driven in further to help alienate cyclists from every other road user!



My personal opinion, many disagree but I don't think cars and cycles should share the same road. We need a separate cycle network that is designed by cyclists, this would in turn bring the return of local shops, bring back some sense of community. You would cycle for you daily groceries and other smaller items have a fully integrated society/community. We need to look across to Europe and take note of what they done.. Our Gov need to remember London is not the UK other places exist beyond the north of Watford  But I can dream.


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## steveindenmark (18 Nov 2013)

I visit the UK quite often and wouldnt like to cycle there. I lived there until my early 20s and always had a bike.

Possibly it is because I have been spoilt by cycling in Denmark for 10 years. Traffic in the UK seems to have increased massively since I left.

Steve


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> The thin end of the wedge being driven in further to help alienate cyclists from every other road user!


 
How did you come to that conclusion?


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Not widely publicised is if the HS2 does get built as far as Leeds, it will be to a seperate station, as yet unbuilt, roughly a mile away from Leeds station at present. 
No rail link planned between the two stations, so any saving made timewise, with the HS2 will be wiped out by the journey into the City centre, presumably by bus or taxi, thus adding to the traffic.
Ten years ago it was estimated that the population of Leeds declined by just under a million people between the hours of 4-7pm on a daily basis. I was one of those.


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Marmion said:


> How did you come to that conclusion?


Council plan on announcing the cost of the improvements after the next local election, as well as saying that its to the benefit of all who cycle within the area. That hill climb I've done about two dozen times in over 30 years.
When major improvement works are being put back because of what is seen as a minority activity, it will generate friction.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Council plan on announcing the cost of the improvements after the next local election, as well as saying that its to the benefit of all who cycle within the area. That hill climb I've done about two dozen times in over 30 years.
> When major improvement works are being put back because of what is seen as a minority activity, it will generate friction.


 
That's more to do with other's prejudice rather than it going ahead in order to help generate additional regional income - you're not sounding like the kind of person I would vote for; too easily swayed by what others think rather than doing the right thing.


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

The prejudice generated can last a lot longer than any amount of money raised.
A figure of £14,000,000 million generated on the day it passes through has already been given out by the council, but they're withholding the cost of funding a minority activity(their wording) until after the elections. Why would they do that, because they can't be seen as not supporting it before hand, but want to distance themselves from it once its done.


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## Shut Up Legs (18 Nov 2013)

For what it's worth: there are a number of Australians who have been fairly pessimistic about the goals and motives of the Australian Cyclists Party, stating concerns such as "single-issue party", "sell-out once elected", blah, blah, blah... Nevertheless, many of these people have also joined the party, because they see the value for cyclists in adding membership numbers to the party, even though its policies aren't yet fully formed.

For too long now, our state cycling advocacy organisations have argued with each other and been reluctant to present views different to those of the state governments and/or motoring organisations. In other words, these cycling organisations are ineffective. Many of us have joined the ACP in the hope that this will change.


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

victor said:


> For what it's worth: there are a number of Australians who have been fairly pessimistic about the goals and motives of the Australian Cyclists Party, stating concerns such as "single-issue party", "sell-out once elected", blah, blah, blah... Nevertheless, many of these people have also joined the party, because they see the value for cyclists in adding membership numbers to the party, even though its policies aren't yet fully formed.
> 
> For too long now, our state cycling advocacy organisations have argued with each other and been reluctant to present views different to those of the state governments and/or motoring organisations. In other words, these cycling organisations are ineffective. Many of us have joined the ACP in the hope that this will change.



I hope it works out for you - we're all watching to see what unfolds


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## Pat "5mph" (18 Nov 2013)

@classic33 I have had some time on my hands recently so I have attended some Cycling Scotland open seminars.
It pains me to say that all they want to achieve is 10% of total journeys in Scotland to be made by bike.
Hardly anything to get excited about, or to spend much money on.
Opinions on how to spend the little money available seem fragmented, inconclusive.
Seriously, I don't think the UK is ready for a cycling party.
It will be interesting to see how the Australian fare in their venture.


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

> It pains me to say that all they want to achieve is 10% of total journeys in Scotland to be made by bike.



The 10% may seem insignificant but that equates to a lot of journeys made by bicycle, small steps... The cycle manifesto is below some interesting reading (yes I am easily pleased) lol

http://pedalonparliament.org/the-manifesto/


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> @classic33 I have had some time on my hands recently so I have attended some Cycling Scotland open seminars.
> It pains me to say that all they want to achieve is 10% of total journeys in Scotland to be made by bike.
> Hardly anything to get excited about, or to spend much money on.
> Opinions on how to spend the little money available seem fragmented, inconclusive.
> ...


 Maybe, but maybe just the registration of the party may be enough to make the main parties sit up & take notice of that the fact that 2012 effect has gone and what is left is an increase in the actual number of people actually using a pedal cycle as a viable means of transport.


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## Dismount (18 Nov 2013)

> Maybe, but maybe just the registration of the party may be enough to make the main parties sit up & take notice of that the fact that 2012 effect has gone and what is left is an increase in the actual number of people actually using a pedal cycle as a viable means of transport.



Go for it nothing to lose and probably an ideal time, looking at the Guardian bike blog in isolation the top 3 recent blogs are all in relation to bike casualties. Stand up and be counted

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog


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## Pro Tour Punditry (18 Nov 2013)

classic33 said:


> Maybe, but maybe just the registration of the party may be enough to make the main parties sit up & take notice.


 
Or not even register with them at all.


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## classic33 (18 Nov 2013)

Dismount said:


> The 10% may seem insignificant but that equates to a lot of journeys made by bicycle, small steps... The cycle manifesto is below some interesting reading (yes I am easily pleased) lol
> 
> http://pedalonparliament.org/the-manifesto/[/quote
> Thanks for that, something to work from. Just had a quick read & some of the same points raised there as on here. Road improvements benefit not just the cyclists, health benefits(through exercise) and has, sadly, in the last two weeks has come to the fore in London. That of truck & cyclist conflict. With the cyclist coming out the loser.


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## classic33 (19 Nov 2013)

Dismount said:


> Go for it nothing to lose and probably an ideal time, looking at the Guardian bike blog in isolation the top 3 recent blogs are all in relation to bike casualties. Stand up and be counted
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog


Thanks for that, something to work with.
But would you be willing to stand. Three-four weeks work required. Along with a lot of form filling.

That is now, what will the situation be like in 4 months time. When registration for the local elections will be taken. I hope for one that it will not get worse. But if it remains the same will we have the main parties simply blaming one another, whilst doing nothing themselves about the problem. Something they do on any major issue of the day, or make a token gesture towards it.
If the elections were to be next month, I'd say that anyone standing in London for a cyclist party would make serious inroads into the votes cast for the main parties. Thats based upon public reaction to what is happenning now on the roads, down there.


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## Pat "5mph" (19 Nov 2013)

Classic, if you are up to it recruit some helpers.
Really, write a party manifesto first.
It does not do to rush into registering a party and standing for election if there's no clear and unanimous agenda, the party would come across to the electorate as a joke.
At least the founder members need to agree on issues: lets read the Australian statement, see if we can adapt it to our needs.


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## Dismount (19 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Classic, if you are up to it recruit some helpers.
> Really, write a party manifesto first.
> It does not do to rush into registering a party and standing for election if there's no clear and unanimous agenda, the party would come across to the electorate as a joke.
> At least the founder members need to agree on issues: lets read the Australian statement, see if we can adapt it to our needs.



I am willing to chip in, a few can bring about change


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## classic33 (19 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Classic, if you are up to it recruit some helpers.
> Really, write a party manifesto first.
> It does not do to rush into registering a party and standing for election if there's no clear and unanimous agenda, the party would come across to the electorate as a joke.
> At least the founder members need to agree on issues: lets read the Australian statement, see if we can adapt it to our needs.


Can we count on the Belles on Bikes?
Serrious question asked earlier about T-shirt printing, as we are effectivley mobile billboards/advertising.

The manifesto has to be written and submitted at the time of registration. So the party can't be registered without one. Slightly different to the Austrailian situation as they can put forward their manifesto after registration, from what I've read of the Registration proceedure down under.


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## Dismount (19 Nov 2013)

http://thinkingaboutcycling.wordpress.com/category/activism/


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## Pat "5mph" (19 Nov 2013)

Dismount said:


> http://thinkingaboutcycling.wordpress.com/category/activism/


I like this: need to read it again taking more time to digest the message.


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## classic33 (19 Nov 2013)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I like this: need to read it again taking more time to digest the message.


 Likewise.


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## Shut Up Legs (19 Nov 2013)

Dismount said:


> http://thinkingaboutcycling.wordpress.com/category/activism/


Nice . I just read the top article in the page, and will read the others when I get a chance.


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## matthat (20 Nov 2013)

I like your thinking @classic33!! I've put a follow on thread to see how it progresses!


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## classic33 (22 Nov 2013)

[QUOTE 2781673, member: 1314"]Won't work for one simple reason. Magnatom is the King of Scottish Cyclists, and already has his eye on taking over London. Any rival to him will be hung, drawn and quartered.[/quote]
He'd be worth getting on board if he wants to. He's in the media, North of the Border, a lot. So well known. 
Given his past experience with close misses I'd say he'd do well, if he were to stand. However will he still be in the media's good books come March.


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## classic33 (25 Nov 2013)

Waiting to see if Magnatom replies here or via e-mail. And to see what he thinks of the idea.

Started now, as a registered party, I think we'd be looking at 2015 before being able to stand as party members.

Awaiting clarification on new rules being introduced, possibly affecting local elections as well as national.


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## classic33 (21 Dec 2013)

There's no-one willing to put their names forward then!


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## Shut Up Legs (31 Jan 2014)

An update on the Australian Cyclists Party. Here's an exerpt from an email I got from them 



> *Australian Cyclists Party Qualifies in NSW!*
> *5 months since posing the question - "are we ready to back a cyclists party in Australia?" - we have now met all of the qualifications for registering the Australian Cyclists Party in NSW. With the final 750 of our 1,200 members in NSW submitting their verification letters, we ticked the final box. We are slated to be the world's first cyclists party after the publication of our registration and official public notification - that takes about 3 weeks.
> 
> While those who cycle in NSW have demonstrated wonderful support to see the party take its place in government, we are also looking to finalise our base of support in Victoria - the first state that will go to the polls and that we could be ready to contest (November for Vic; NSW will follow in March 2015). Federal registration is also likely in a few months time once the special elections in Queensland and WA are run. So while we pause in NSW, we are on for another sprint finish in Vic.*


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## classic33 (1 Feb 2014)

Now to try & repeat it in this country.


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## classic33 (27 Feb 2014)

Are now a legally recognsed political party, in New South Wales. Fair play to them. Top of the list, namewise as well.
http://www.elections.nsw.gov.au/can..._political_parties/list_of_registered_parties

_"Happy Birthday!!! 

The NSW Electoral Commission has announced that we have been officially listed as a political party! As far as we can tell, it is the first party for cycling and those who bicycle anywhere.

Just 6 months from our firs...t member signing up we are now a new option for the voters of NSW and hopefully soon in Vic and other States and Territories and Federally. We believed it was time we went beyond hoping for change and many of you and our other members appear to agree.

Today we are also changing our "look" and preparing to create the jerseys and shirts that many of you have asked about. We will use a crowd-funding approach to finance this effort beginning soon.

We have now also created a donation facility and hope that you will consider supporting our efforts and offset our costs of establishing the party nation-wide. The donation link and bank information is on our website icycleivote.com

It won't be easy, we may not succeed at first but exciting times are ahead, and we hope you will continue to be an active part of our journey!"_


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## Shut Up Legs (13 Jul 2014)

Another update, and it's good news!  I just received this email from the ACP:


Australian Cyclists Party said:


> *Special Announcement for Victorian Members*
> *
> Thanks to your membership, on the 21st of July the Australian Cyclists Party will file our application to be included in the upcoming November ballot! Just 9 months after first launching in Melbourne, the ACP has successfully registered in NSW and is now seeking to do the same in Victoria and soon Federally.
> 
> ...


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## classic33 (13 Jul 2014)

You planning on standing then @victor?


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## classic33 (13 Jul 2014)

Also shows just what can be achieved. Once you set your mind to it.


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## Shut Up Legs (13 Jul 2014)

classic33 said:


> You planning on standing then @victor?


No . Public speaking is really not my forte, but I'm happy to support the party in other ways, such as making donations.


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## classic33 (15 Jul 2014)

victor said:


> No . Public speaking is really not my forte, but I'm happy to support the party in other ways, such as making donations.


Public speaking doesn't seem to stop most.


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## Shut Up Legs (20 Jul 2014)

A bit more progress...


Australian Cyclists Party said:


> *Move over PUPs...*
> *We have just received notice that our application to the Australian Election Commission to be registered as a Federal Party has been provisionally approved! Notice will be given in national papers on Monday and a 30-day waiting period will follow.
> 
> This news follows an earlier approval in NSW and establishes the party as a true national party preparing to contest at any level of government! Our thanks for your support helping us make this possible!*


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## Keith Oates (20 Jul 2014)

Good news Victor, it will be interesting to see how the actual voting goes in the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Shut Up Legs (17 Aug 2014)

More news - hopefully you can view this 2 minute video in the UK:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/24514375/cyclists-political-party-to-contest-vic-election/


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## Shut Up Legs (27 Aug 2014)

The Australian Cyclists Party is now a nationally-registered political party!  Here's the text from the relevant web page, in case you can't access it:

http://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_R...stration/Registered_parties/aust-cyclists.htm

*Australian Cyclists Party*
*Updated:* 21 August 2014
In accordance with Part XI of the _Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918_, the political party whose details appear below was registered on 20 August 2014. The current particulars of the party, as amended, are:-

Extract from the _Register of Political Parties_ for the Australian Cyclists Party
Name of Party: *Australian Cyclists Party*
Registered Abbreviation: 
Parliamentary Party: *No*
Registered Officer of Party:
Name: Omar Khalifa


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## Shut Up Legs (18 Oct 2014)

Another update: the ACP has qualified for the Victorian State Elections, which occur late November. They just told me they'll be finalising the candidate list shortly and announcing it, probably within a week or two. It's all happening!


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## classic33 (18 Oct 2014)

First election with a cyclists party


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## Shut Up Legs (5 Nov 2014)

Election day approaches, and the candidates are now known: http://www.pozible.com/project/187169


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## classic33 (5 Nov 2014)

victor said:


> Election day approaches, and the candidates are now known: http://www.pozible.com/project/187169


Only showing four. I thought they were doing sixteen?


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## classic33 (6 Nov 2014)

https://australian-cyclists-party.o...VIC_Candidate_Launch-Media_Release_141106.pdf

Names of the 11 people standing for the ACP on November 29th.


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## classic33 (10 Nov 2014)

The Australian Cyclists Party is looking for just one more great candidate - to join our talented team of 15 - for the upcoming Victorian election. This will be a supporting role in one of the 8 regions we will be standing in. If you areinterested we need to hear from you straight away as the deadline for submitting our candidate list is this Wednesday! 

You must already be an ACP member and registered to vote in Victoria. Contact us now on candidate@icycleivote.com

Interested @victor?


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## classic33 (14 Nov 2014)

Cycling Rock'n'Roll 
Will the Sex Party preference the Greens? Do the Cyclists like the Rock’n’Roll party? Crikey Victorian election correspondent Dan Moss investigates the complicated web of preference deals.


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## classic33 (17 Nov 2014)

@victor, able to make it?
_"Victorians, come meet the candidates on a short bike ride (5-6 km) this Sunday! We will meet at Federation Square in Melbourne at 11 AM for a short ride to the Yarra and a place we can stop and have a coffee and have time to chat. We will going at a leisurely pace."_


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## classic33 (24 Nov 2014)

One was involved in a dooring incident. Broken collarbone on Election Week


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## classic33 (29 Nov 2014)

Its not looking so good for them at present. There's also seems to be a few saying that as they are now, they're set to fail.


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## classic33 (30 Nov 2014)

They've given up on the Upper House seat.


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## Shut Up Legs (30 Nov 2014)

classic33 said:


> Its not looking so good for them at present. There's also seems to be a few saying that as they are now, they're set to fail.


This guy seems to disagree with you:
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=79980&p=1200923#p1200923

I also think it went pretty well, considering the ACP only just got the requisite numbers in time to be registered to participate in these state elections. There were roughly 25,000 people who gave the ACP their primary vote. Not much compared to 3 million plus voters, but (I think) encouraging anyway.

Where did you get this "set to fail" conclusion from, anyway? Nothing I've read recently seems to say that.


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## classic33 (30 Nov 2014)

From the ACP
_"Hi everyone, the votes are still coming in but it looks like we will fall short of gaining the seat we targeted in Southern Metro. However, it was a good showing by all accounts for a first time party. Other parties on this list have been involved a long time or with a lot of money so getting this far in just a few months and with a $5k campaign budget should be encouraging!

> Monday AM update with 58% of votes tabulated base on Primary votes before preference allocation. These are the top minor parties in Southern Metro only:

Party - Primary Votes - % - Quota

Liberal Democrats 0 10,526 4.01% 0.2405
Sex Party 0 6,045 2.30% 0.1381
Democratic Labour Party (DLP) 0 5,407 2.06% 0.1235
Animal Justice Party 0 4,180 1.59% 0.0955
Australian Cyclists Party 0 3,174 1.21% 0.0725
Palmer United Party 0 2,339 0.89% 0.0534

At this stage it is unlikely that much more will be posted before Monday night or more likely Tuesday as out of town ballots begin to be tabulated.

We got here just a year from our humble start on just volunteer effort and limited resources. We did it by working together and without bowing to those who wanted to use the ACP for their personal gain.

Our very presence will have raised the profile of cyclists being an emerging force in politics and a new leverage for advocacy.

Thank you once again for your wonderful support and through your membership and donations.

We are committed and energized to making a difference in the NSW elections where what is at stake may be even greater!"
_
*Either way not bad for a first time*


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2014)

victor said:


> This guy seems to disagree with you:
> http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=79980&p=1200923#p1200923
> 
> Where did you get this "set to fail" conclusion from, anyway? Nothing I've read recently seems to say that.


The set to fail part came from a comment left about the party, as it is at present.
Under its present leadership/setup it can do nothing but fail. A bit! harsh for a party in its first election.
Maybe people were expecting greater things from them and are venting their frustrations.


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Dec 2014)

classic33 said:


> The set to fail part came from a comment left about the party, as it is at present.
> Under its present leadership/setup it can do nothing but fail. A bit! harsh for a party in its first election.
> Maybe people were expecting greater things from them and are venting their frustrations.


Yes, but where did this comment come from?


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2014)

victor said:


> Yes, but where did this comment come from?


One here
Glenn DrueryI, It's a disaster for all Australian cyclists. Politicians around the country are watching.. The sad irony of the ACP disaster will be a backward leap for the Australian cycling community. .

See http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/v...d-by-refusing-his-advice-20141130-11wzw2.html

Can't find the comments


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Dec 2014)

classic33 said:


> One here
> Glenn DrueryI, It's a disaster for all Australian cyclists. Politicians around the country are watching.. The sad irony of the ACP disaster will be a backward leap for the Australian cycling community. .
> 
> See http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/v...d-by-refusing-his-advice-20141130-11wzw2.html
> ...


That's his account, and not the only one.


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2014)

I'm not knocking them for trying. 
It just seems as though some had higher hopes/expectations on the day.


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2014)

They're in until the 14th count anyway.


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## Shut Up Legs (1 Dec 2014)

classic33 said:


> One here
> Glenn DrueryI, It's a disaster for all Australian cyclists. Politicians around the country are watching.. The sad irony of the ACP disaster will be a backward leap for the Australian cycling community. .
> 
> See http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/v...d-by-refusing-his-advice-20141130-11wzw2.html
> ...


Interestingly enough, that link is now broken. Not bad, for an article that new!  I wonder what just happened behind the scenes?


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2014)

victor said:


> Interestingly enough, that link is now broken. Not bad, for an article that new!  I wonder what just happened behind the scenes?


404 Error! Page Not Found!

Wonder if not being able to find the comments was an indicator that something was wrong.


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