# Need help picking a new hard tail



## razer17 (18 Feb 2015)

So I've been looking for a new mountain bike for myself. My current one is heavy and sluggish, with an awful fork and awful stop and go bits. I want an upgrade, and so I've set my budget at a £1000. I'm looking at direct suppliers at the minute, because they just seem to offer more bang for buck than the other major brands. I'm mainly going to be riding trails, probably not going to be doing much in the way of jumps and such. There's a few short, muddy drops and climbs in some woods near mine too, which I haven't dared attack on my current bike. I'm within an hour of Cannock, Woburn and Chicksands and others too, so I'd like to tackle those at some points. 

Long story short, I'm looking at bikes, and currently I'm trying to decide between these four so far. Mountain bikes are much harder to choose than rod bikes, so I'm asking for some help. 

Canyon AL 29er 6.9
https://www.canyon.com/en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3640
On-One Parkwood X9
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPWX9/on-one-parkwood-sram-x9-mountain-bike
Vitus Sentier VRS
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sentier-vrs-hardtail-bike-2015/rp-prod120722
Bird Zero.3
http://shop.birdmtb.com/zero/zero-3-279.html


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## Cubist (18 Feb 2015)

All nice bikes, all well specc'd. For my money it would be the Bird 'cos of the wheelsize, and the 142x12 back end. Fork is great too. They are also confident in the frame with its lifetime transferable warranty, and they are pretty niche. They seem to know what they are doing in the UK market. The Manitou might put me off the Vitus, but I've never ridden a bike with one on. The Reba and Revelation on the Parkwood and Canyon are awesome too, and they've all got 615 brakes except the Canyon. Not much to choose between any of them from spec sheets .


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## Pale Rider (19 Feb 2015)

My advice, surprisingly, is not to buy the bike I've just bought, although you could do worse for £900.

What I will say is get a bike with a granny ring.

My mate Chris the mountain biking bike mechanic is about the fittest bloke I know.

If anyone could manage with 2X10 or 1X11, it's him.

But he always specs a granny ring.

The reason is that granny has enabled him to keep going in difficult conditions when other riders without one have come to a stop.


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## Crackle (19 Feb 2015)

I like the esoteric styling of the Bird, though I'm never overly keen on that reinforcing bridge at the top of the seat post. Canyon styling is a bit unsubtle, I've never liked it. Spec wise it's all good so it's what appeals. As for 1x10 or 2x10, just make sure it has the range you need including for moments when you're not as fit as you were. I think I used my inner ring for the first time at Llandegla last week but I've been off the bike for 12 months so it was no surprise, normally I wouldn't need it.

Edit: The Bird doesn't have a one by 10 choice on that model anyhow


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## razer17 (19 Feb 2015)

Cubist said:


> The Manitou might put me off the Vitus, but I've never ridden a bike with one on. The Reba and Revelation on the Parkwood and Canyon are awesome too, and they've all got 615 brakes except the Canyon. Not much to choose between any of them from spec sheets .


The revelation is the only reason I was still considering the Parkwood, but I think I'm down to the Canyon and Bird now. 

The major difference is the Reba vs the Velvet. The Reba is 30mm less travel. The canyon is a hundred quid less, mind. 


Crackle said:


> I like the esoteric styling of the Bird, though I'm never overly keen on that reinforcing bridge at the top of the seat post. Canyon styling is a bit unsubtle, I've never liked it.


 The Canyon is probably my favourite in terms of look, though the Bird really isn't far behind. Maybe I'm just a loutish twenty something, though.


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## Crackle (19 Feb 2015)

User28511 said:


> The Canyon is probably my favourite in terms of look, though the Bird really isn't far behind. Maybe I'm just a loutish twenty something, though.


The Canyon is also the most XC oriented of the ones you've listed and the Bird is much more a trail bike, more stable steering, thru axles, 140 forks. Given your op, I'd have thought the Bird fitted your needs more. I don't know your size but Canyon always drop from 29" to 27.5 wheels on the smallest size. 

27.5" feels closer to a 26" bike in handling than it does to a 29er, that may be a consideration too.


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## Heigue'r (19 Feb 2015)

Thats a tough choice! ! Between the two I couldnt pick as this is exactly where i am at, the exact same bikes.that or a cotic build which is very very appealing,looking forward to seeing which you get, id imagine you wouldn't be disappointed either way


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## razer17 (19 Feb 2015)

Crackle said:


> The Canyon is also the most XC oriented of the ones you've listed and the Bird is much more a trail bike, more stable steering, thru axles, 140 forks. Given your op, I'd have thought the Bird fitted your needs more. I don't know your size but Canyon always drop from 29" to 27.5 wheels on the smallest size.
> 
> 27.5" feels closer to a 26" bike in handling than it does to a 29er, that may be a consideration too.


Being nearly 6"2, probably not going to plump for the smallest size. I have tried 29ers, and they can be a little difficult to force through tight turns. Haven't tried 27.5", but I'm hoping it's best of both worlds as the marketing bluff would have me believe. 


Heigue'r said:


> Thats a tough choice! ! Between the two I couldnt pick as this is exactly where i am at, the exact same bikes.that or a cotic build which is very very appealing,looking forward to seeing which you get, id imagine you wouldn't be disappointed either way


The cotics are in a slightly different price class to the Canyon and Bird, though, aren't they? 

As for my choice, think I'm going to go with the Bird. As has been said, it's more of a trail bike than the Canyon, and has the lifetime warranty and being able to support a small, new British company is cool too. 

Though, the exhaust on my non pedal bike packed in today, so I will have to hold off till I know how much that will set me back.


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## Cubist (20 Feb 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> My advice, surprisingly, is not to buy the bike I've just bought, although you could do worse for £900.
> 
> What I will say is get a bike with a granny ring.
> 
> ...


But you can have the advantages of a 1x10 and a bail out granny. Simply fit a ghost granny without a front mech, and if your 1x setup won't get you up a steep bit, hand shift the chain to the granny ring. 20 odd grammes of 24 or 22t cog ain't gonna make much difference. Obviously only works with a converted triple or double setup, not a dedicated 1x Crankset, and you can't do this with a front chain device, but if you have a narrow wide ring and clutch mech, you don't need one anyway.


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## razer17 (20 Feb 2015)

The Bird has a 24/38 front and 11-36 rear, so I think I should be pretty sorted for gear ratios. The Birds the one I've decided on, now I just have the horrible wait till I can order the thing.


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## Pale Rider (20 Feb 2015)

Cubist said:


> But you can have the advantages of a 1x10 and a bail out granny. Simply fit a ghost granny without a front mech, and if your 1x setup won't get you up a steep bit, hand shift the chain to the granny ring. 20 odd grammes of 24 or 22t cog ain't gonna make much difference. Obviously only works with a converted triple or double setup, not a dedicated 1x Crankset, and you can't do this with a front chain device, but if you have a narrow wide ring and clutch mech, you don't need one anyway.



Changing a chain manually seems daft when the idea is to keep moving, but as I say, I don't profess to understand mountain biking.

It does remind me of something similar I saw years ago.

A mountain biker offered to guide me around what was probably a fairly low level trail.

We came across what was - to me - a really steep bit, so I stopped.

He stopped, and told me he would demonstrate his new piece of kit.

His bike already had a triple, but he had fitted a tiny fourth ring, which I recall he called either a ghost or shadow ring.

From memory, it was manual shift.

Off he went, spinning as fast as he could, but not really getting anywhere.

It appeared to me the gear was so low it was difficult for even an experienced cyclist to use it and maintain balance.

"Useless" was his verdict.


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## Cubist (21 Feb 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> Changing a chain manually seems daft when the idea is to keep moving, but as I say, I don't profess to understand mountain biking.
> 
> It does remind me of something similar I saw years ago.
> 
> ...


A lot of new bikes now come with SRAM 1x11 setups. With the closer ratios available and bigger cassettes, you can have the gear extremes more or less the same as a compact XC double. Downhillers have used 1x for years, but then you don't need any climbing gears on a downhill bike. 

SRAM have been leading this for a couple of years, with 32, 34 or 36t front and 10-40 cassettes. OK, your biggest gear is a bit lower but not many leisure riders want or need a 35mph top gear. and the advantages of a 300g or so weight loss, from mech, shifter and cables, plus simplicity, plus the added bar space for dropper remotes means it has become a popular option for a lot of riders. 

Off road, many bikes needed some sort of chain retention device, as a bike descending over rough ground will suffer chainslap, chainsuck and chainjump unless the chain is held in place by a tensioner and/or a top guide. To mitigate this the manufacturers added a clutch mech into the mix. The mech spring was reinforced when required by a clutch mechanism which prevented the chainslap, keeping the chain taut. To overcome chainjump or loss the front ring was given a "narrow-wide" profile, the teeth having a varying width machined into the profile effectively binding the chain in place. This now means that the bike no longer needs a chain device or tensioner. 

Aftermarket suppliers soon cottoned onto the popularity/advantages of 1x. Without all those ugly tensioners and chain devices bikes looked cleaner, were lighter and simpler without front mechs. Riders with quads of steel were soon converting their triple or double setups by removing the front mech, outer and inner rings and adding clutch mechs and narrow wide front rings. It was pretty common to see 10 speed bikes with 30, 32, 34 or 36t n/w chainrings mated with 11-36 cassettes. This setup is great over most terrain, but the climbing gear became an issue. Unless you were a riding god, even a 30x36 gear is a bit hard on a lot of climbs. You either became a stand-up climbing monster, or you got off and pushed up the steepest bits. A 30x11 soon spins out on a level or downhill bridleway or fire road. 

The next development for the leisure rider was the extender cassette cog. Available in 40 or 42 teeth this is placed onto the freehub before the cassette is fitted, then you remove the 15t or 17t cog. Great for climbing, 30-42 is more or less the same gear as a 22t granny on a 36 cassette. A bit lumpy with a jump from 13t to 17, or 15-19, this can be smoothed out a bit with an aftermarket 16t cog in place of both the 15 and the 17. 

My Ibis currently has a 32t narrow wide front ring, and a 10 speed 11-42 rear cassette and a clutch mech. I get off and push occasionally, but no more so than when I had a 24-36 bottom gear.


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## Cubist (21 Feb 2015)

I almost forgot the bit about the ghost granny. You can have the clean lines and uncluttered benefits of a single ring without the expense of an expander cog, on your converted double or triple setup, by leaving the granny ring in place. Without a front mech you need to shift it by hand, and of course you have to stop to do it, but it may be that you only occasionally have to deal with a steep climb. It's a bail-out option rather than a regular use thing. If you use it a lot you're better off with a double.


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## w00hoo_kent (21 Feb 2015)

I was very taken with the KTM 1964 when I saw it at the NEC last year. As pretty much a novice to dirt on a bicycle, I'd be interested where people felt it sat with the four mentioned here? Pretty but just that, or worthwhile contender?


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## Crackle (21 Feb 2015)

@Cubist you think those clutch mechs are worth a standard triple setup? I seem to get more slap on the Kinesis, possibly because the back end is pretty rigid. The Shimano mech has a switch though, which demands a conscious decision and I also read it stiffens the change a lot.


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## Cubist (21 Feb 2015)

Crackle said:


> @Cubist you think those clutch mechs are worth a standard triple setup? I seem to get more slap on the Kinesis, possibly because the back end is pretty rigid. The Shimano mech has a switch though, which demands a conscious decision and I also read it stiffens the change a lot.


They aren't that expensive right now, and they may well calm the chain down. The switch means you can choose not to have it on at all if you don't want. Yes, it stiffens the change a bit, but not massively- but mine are on XT shifters which are positive/crisp to start with. Also, the clutch is adjustable by unscrewing the cover and adding or removing spring tension, so you can always tune it to how you want it.


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## razer17 (21 Feb 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I was very taken with the KTM 1964 when I saw it at the NEC last year. As pretty much a novice to dirt on a bicycle, I'd be interested where people felt it sat with the four mentioned here? Pretty but just that, or worthwhile contender?


From experience, those brakes aren't particularly good. The Reba forks on it are the same as the ones on the Canyon, but that bike's a hundred quid cheaper. Looks pretty sleek in the black with orange trim. I know someone on this forum bought this bike recently,so you could ask for his experience.

Edit- Quick search led me to this: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cycle-to-work-scheme-mtb-for-1k.172685/post-3483465


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## Motozulu (21 Feb 2015)

Another one for the Bird here - so much so I will be ordering one in April. I love the looks and personally I have chosen it over the Carbon evo 456 from On One. I like the fact it's niche and built by Brit trail riders and as I am going for the Zero.2 I can spec it with a 1x10 set up (which I have on the Chief) and Sweep 140mm forks. As this will predominantly be ridden at Cannock I'm happy enough with a 32t narrow/wide, 11-36 cassette and a Zee mech. Looking forward to trying X fusion too.

The Bird 2 is perfectly specced for me - and for £1,200 I'm chuffed. All I've got to do now is pick acid yellow or candy blue!!


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## razer17 (21 Feb 2015)

Motozulu said:


> Another one for the Bird here - so much so I will be ordering one in April. I love the looks and personally I have chosen it over the Carbon evo 456 from On One. I like the fact it's niche and built by Brit trail riders and as I am going for the Zero.2 I can spec it with a 1x10 set up (which I have on the Chief) and Sweep 140mm forks. As this will predominantly be ridden at Cannock I'm happy enough with a 32t narrow/wide, 11-36 cassette and a Zee mech. Looking forward to trying X fusion too.
> 
> The Bird 2 is perfectly specced for me - and for £1,200 I'm chuffed. All I've got to do now is pick acid yellow or candy blue!!


Definitely the acid yellow for me. The blue is nice, but the yellow looks fantastic. And I'm not a fan of pink, but it really sets off the yellow in this frame and looks great.

Also, that Sweep fork looks fantastic, and from the review I just read it's basically on par with the Pike, which is like double the price. Wonder if it's worth saving a little longer and getting the zero.2 instead of the 3. Wonder if I'd ever really get full use out of that fork.


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## Oldbloke (22 Feb 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I was very taken with the KTM 1964 when I saw it at the NEC last year. As pretty much a novice to dirt on a bicycle, I'd be interested where people felt it sat with the four mentioned here? Pretty but just that, or worthwhile contender?



I bought one of these in December, brilliant bike as far as I'm concerned. I use it for forest trails and cross country, nothing too radical.

Can't tell you how it compares to the others mentioned as my shortlist only included the Trek Superfly and Wilier 401. Chose the KTM on price.


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## Crackle (23 Feb 2015)

Cubist said:


> They aren't that expensive right now, and they may well calm the chain down. The switch means you can choose not to have it on at all if you don't want. Yes, it stiffens the change a bit, but not massively- but mine are on XT shifters which are positive/crisp to start with. Also, the clutch is adjustable by unscrewing the cover and adding or removing spring tension, so you can always tune it to how you want it.


Heh, I should've have listened when you tried to steer me to 10 speed during my build. Clutch mechs are 10 speed only, I'll continue to rattle then.


And my vote is the blue one


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Feb 2015)

Oldbloke said:


> I bought one of these in December, brilliant bike as far as I'm concerned. I use it for forest trails and cross country, nothing too radical.
> 
> Can't tell you how it compares to the others mentioned as my shortlist only included the Trek Superfly and Wilier 401. Chose the KTM on price.


Thanks for the info, that's pretty much what I'd be looking to do with it. I've got a very unsuitable Commencal El Camino at the moment, (it was cheap) and the theory is if I start giving it a bit more use then I'll reshuffle the 'stable' and replace it with a KTM.


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## Pale Rider (23 Feb 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Thanks for the info, that's pretty much what I'd be looking to do with it. I've got a very unsuitable Commencal El Camino at the moment, (it was cheap) and the theory is if I start giving it a bit more use then I'll reshuffle the 'stable' and replace it with a KTM.



I had a brief go on a KTM 1964 and liked it a lot.

Just the job for 'nothing too radical' as @Oldbloke says.

I all but bought one, but when I went back the shop didn't have my size.

I believe this year's 1964s come in 29er and 650b, so make sure you get the one you want.


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## Motozulu (23 Feb 2015)

User28511 said:


> Definitely the acid yellow for me. The blue is nice, but the yellow looks fantastic. And I'm not a fan of pink, but it really sets off the yellow in this frame and looks great.
> 
> Also, that Sweep fork looks fantastic, and from the review I just read it's basically on par with the Pike, which is like double the price. Wonder if it's worth saving a little longer and getting the zero.2 instead of the 3. Wonder if I'd ever really get full use out of that fork.


I would say do it - if not now then at some stage you may regret not going for the stiffer more capable sweeps. Reviews I've read say the Velvets are excellent XC forks but are a bit flexi on the bigger hits. Main reasons I think the 2 is such an excellent bike are the Sweeps and the 1x10 set up.

I really can't choose between the Blue or Yellow. Living in the Midlands it's just too far for a test ride and they have no demo days planned up here. The photo's suggest the yellow is a bit wishy washy but I know how different things look in the flesh...toughie...


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## razer17 (23 Feb 2015)

Motozulu said:


> I would say do it - if not now then at some stage you may regret not going for the stiffer more capable sweeps. Reviews I've read say the Velvets are excellent XC forks but are a bit flexi on the bigger hits. Main reasons I think the 2 is such an excellent bike are the Sweeps and the 1x10 set up.
> 
> I really can't choose between the Blue or Yellow. Living in the Midlands it's just too far for a test ride and they have no demo days planned up here. The photo's suggest the yellow is a bit wishy washy but I know how different things look in the flesh...toughie...


For the extra £200 I get better forks and stop/go gear. Better sell on value as well if I don't get on with it (hopefully that won't happen). Might be worth a bash, the sweep really is meant to be great. Not sure I'd go 1x10 though. Think a 2x10 is better for me.


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## razer17 (24 Feb 2015)

I need to stop looking at bikes till I buy the Bird. I started looking for sub 1000 quid hard tails, thought I'd decided, and suddenly I find myself looking at Canyon full sussers for way above that. 

I just wish I didn't need to wait another 3 weeks to order by Bird.


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## w00hoo_kent (24 Feb 2015)

I was under the impression the riding that required a full suss was very different to that you'd be happy doing on a hardtail. Considering all the extra weight and moving parts to look after I think I'd have to be really sure I needed a full suss before going that way. Also, surely you take a tech hit going to full suss without adding an awful lot more money.


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## Motozulu (24 Feb 2015)

User28511 said:


> For the extra £200 I get better forks and stop/go gear. Better sell on value as well if I don't get on with it (hopefully that won't happen). Might be worth a bash, the sweep really is meant to be great. Not sure I'd go 1x10 though. Think a 2x10 is better for me.



Yes, deffo worth the extra 200. Just as I was bored I had a go at speccing the Bird myself - I got to a grand without getting halfway down the list and that was still without the frame!!
1x10...2x10 is purely a personal thing, I love the simplicity of a 1x10 plus the fact it gets/keeps you fitter and just looks neater, cleaner bars, less clutter and easier to clean/maintain - beauty of the Zero 2 is it is a free choice between the two set ups.
I'm deffo going for the yellow btw, like you I have to wait 3 weeks and like you I was looking at a HT sub £1,000 but the Zero is just too good to turn down.....I can't wait....


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## razer17 (16 Mar 2015)

Well, I'm finally going to pull the trigger. Did some overtime and I'm going to go with the Bird Zero 2, rather than the 3. Now I'm just speccing it up to see what I want. I'm think 750mm bars, Ardents front and back? Possibly 2.4 front, 2.2 back? Going with the 2x10 set up and tubeless tires. Since the rims are tubeless ready I'm hoping any tyre fixes will be relatively easy, compared to ghetto tubeless anyway.


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## Motozulu (18 Mar 2015)

Good stuff - I'm going to the factory next Wednesday to test ride a large and medium, just to be sure. I've saved up enough to go for the Zero 1 too - really like the all turbine kit.....


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## razer17 (18 Mar 2015)

I considered going with the 1 briefly, but decided I was already stretching my budget enough to get the 2. Did end up going 1x10 instead of going with 2 chain rings. The gear ratios don't really change that much, especially if I get myself a 42t expander. When things get too steep I tend to push rather than spin my way up anyway. The one slight shame is that they were out of black Sweeps, so I went with a white. Should still look good though.


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## Motozulu (19 Mar 2015)

When is it delivered? in truth there isn't much difference really in the 1 and 2 but as I said, I really wanted the all turbine drive train and XT brakes - that was the deal maker for me, but really it ain't massive.

Bit concerned about the Sweeps - don't think I want white. Be sure to post a review of the bike on here! For a £60 option they do the expander for you (40t though I think). I considered it but then reasoned that it's a HT and lightish, it will climb better than my Chief, I'll just have to pedal harder and stop being so lazy! Also you lose the Zee rear mech if you opt for the pussy cog and the Zee is my favourite mech.


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## razer17 (19 Mar 2015)

Motozulu said:


> When is it delivered? in truth there isn't much difference really in the 1 and 2 but as I said, I really wanted the all turbine drive train and XT brakes - that was the deal maker for me, but really it ain't massive.
> 
> Bit concerned about the Sweeps - don't think I want white. Be sure to post a review of the bike on here! For a £60 option they do the expander for you (40t though I think). I considered it but then reasoned that it's a HT and lightish, it will climb better than my Chief, I'll just have to pedal harder and stop being so lazy! Also you lose the Zee rear mech if you opt for the pussy cog and the Zee is my favourite mech.



Will be a few days till delivery, takes longer because I took tubeless. However, I phoned them up today, and they are going to swap the white Sweeps for black, since it's not finished yet. Which is great. It will definitely look better with black forks. Can't wait to get hold of it and try it out.


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## Motozulu (19 Mar 2015)

That's a big relief - didn't want to say as you had already ordered but I really didn't like the white Sweeps! You made the right choice going for tubeless - since doing it myself I will never go back to tubed, you'll be the same, I think them setting tubeless up for free for you is a great selling point too.

Looking forward to your initial thoughts after a first ride! I'm 2 or 3 weeks off ordering yet.


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## razer17 (19 Mar 2015)

Motozulu said:


> That's a big relief - didn't want to say as you had already ordered but I really didn't like the white Sweeps! You made the right choice going for tubeless - since doing it myself I will never go back to tubed, you'll be the same, I think them setting tubeless up for free for you is a great selling point too.
> 
> Looking forward to your initial thoughts after a first ride! I'm 2 or 3 weeks off ordering yet.


I had to drag my mtb 3 miles back to my house last time I went out on it. Went over a root and just destroyed the inner tube. Didn't have a spare so it was an annoying hike back to mine. Especially since my old mtb weighs 15kg or so. I've had to hike with my roadie more than once as well, I need to start carrying more spares with me. 
And you're right about the white sweeps. I thought they looked alright, and I looked again today and just thought "Nope, don't like 'em". Luckily I can get them changed.


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## Motozulu (19 Mar 2015)

The peace of mind of being tubeless far outweighs the minimal faff of setting it up. With good old Bird you haven't even got the initial faffage! Win Win!


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## razer17 (21 Mar 2015)

Also realised I chose the wrong tyre. Meant to get ardents front and back, accidentally got a high roller in the front. Not a big deal though. 
The order hasn't updated to say it will have a black Sweep, but hoping that's just the way their site works. Looks like the bike has been shipped though, so it should come today or Monday I would assume.


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## Motozulu (21 Mar 2015)

Can't wait for your report.


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## Heigue'r (22 Mar 2015)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and more importantly seeing the pics!!.


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## razer17 (23 Mar 2015)

Well, the day has come, the bike has arrived. Firstly, it looks absolutely fantastic. The tyres are bigger than I expected, much bigger than the tyres on my old mtb.Glad I went with the black sweeps, they look much better. I only took it out for a very short ride, mostly on road, since it was dark by the time it was fully set up. I forgot to buy a shock pump which was a mistake. I'm not exactly a light rider ,so the suspension really isn't set up for me. So much so that I tried to wheelie up a kerb, but basically all I did was pull my forks out of their travel and ended up lurching forward. Got one reserved at Halford and I'll pick it up on the way home from work tomorrow, put some air in my forks and then hit a few little trails in my town.


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## Heigue'r (23 Mar 2015)

Well wear,it looks fantastic!


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## Jody (24 Mar 2015)

^ The Bird looks great and although I picked Blue in the poll Yellow looks ace!


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## Pale Rider (24 Mar 2015)

User28511 said:


> Well, the day has come, the bike has arrived. Firstly, it looks absolutely fantastic. The tyres are bigger than I expected, much bigger than the tyres on my old mtb.Glad I went with the black sweeps, they look much better. I only took it out for a very short ride, mostly on road, since it was dark by the time it was fully set up. I forgot to buy a shock pump which was a mistake. I'm not exactly a light rider ,so the suspension really isn't set up for me. So much so that I tried to wheelie up a kerb, but basically all I did was pull my forks out of their travel and ended up lurching forward. Got one reserved at Halford and I'll pick it up on the way home from work tomorrow, put some air in my forks and then hit a few little trails in my town.
> 
> View attachment 83533
> View attachment 83534
> ...



Nice bike, and a good move on the shock pump.

Worth researching how to set the pressure, if you don't already know.

There is a bit of a knack to getting it right.


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## Motozulu (24 Mar 2015)

That looks stunning. I'm going to the factory tomorrow to size one up and do a test ride around Swinley forest. Can't wait.

What tyres did you go for? can't quite make em out? I've only ever had Schwalbe tyres so know nothing about the Maxxisa range but was thinking Ardent 2.25 rear and either a High Roller or Minion 2.3 on the front - thoughts anyone?


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## razer17 (24 Mar 2015)

Well I took it out for a bit more of a proper spin today. Looked like it was going to be cancelled when hailstorms started pelting down 10 minutes before I finished work. Luckily it had stopped completely before I got the bike out of the bike shed. 
Got to halfords and put some air in my forks, feels a lot better straight away. 
The bike rolls very quickly on the path, and also on the trails. There's some bits where you have to go over roots with some relatively steep drops on the side, and on my old bike it used to always nearly kick me out. That didn't happen on this bike, and I felt a lot more confident in tackling things. The brakes are much, much better than old my bike. The longer bars take some getting used to, It's not light compared to an XC machine, but it's a lot lighter than my old MTB, despite the extra 40mm of travel, and the bigger wheels and wider tyres. 

All in all, the bike is fantastic. I can't wait to get it onto some more technical, bigger trails. 


Motozulu said:


> That looks stunning. I'm going to the factory tomorrow to size one up and do a test ride around Swinley forest. Can't wait.
> 
> What tyres did you go for? can't quite make em out? I've only ever had Schwalbe tyres so know nothing about the Maxxisa range but was thinking Ardent 2.25 rear and either a High Roller or Minion 2.3 on the front - thoughts anyone?


Ardent 2.2 rear and High Roller 2.3 front, same as you're considering.


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## Motozulu (26 Mar 2015)

Nice report mate - I can confirm everything you say after yesterday. As an aside we had 2 bikes - one with revelations and High roller/Ardent combo, the other with X fusion Sweeps and MinionDHF/Ardent combo. Both combos were absolutely rock solid and we were hitting corners and berms at real speed, never felt like washing out once on either. I'm going with the Minion though as it's 20g lighter than the High Roller 

Got to say, I've never ridden a bike that hugs berms and corners so well, must be a combo of bike geom, forks and tyres - blew us both away, also I was impressed at just how light the bike was! Swinley forest is also a great, fun, bermy blast. I came on to post a small report from yesterday's visit - see below.

PS - great avatar!


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## Motozulu (26 Mar 2015)

"Well we went today - bit of an epic drive in the old jalopy - it got us there and back and Bird's current base is well hidden in deepest darkest Hampshire!

Me and Jay were joking on the way that it would be one old chap in a brown coat working out of his garden shed and we were almost on the money! They are upgrading the main factory/warehouse atm so are having to build bikes in the office!

Anyway - took a L and an M off to Swinley and set off on a brilliant warm sunny day.

Swinley is great IMO, fast, jumpy, swoopy and bermy and even has some real quality single track through very tight trees on the red - bloody loved it.

The bikes? an absolute no brainer. I personally haven't rode a HT that sticks that well to the corners and berms - fecking superb and was very impressed with the Sweeps, which IMO, out performed the Revelations on the AM spec Zero we had.

In short, I'm totally sold and know I've made the right choice. Can't wait to get it ordered!

Would I go to Swinley again despite the 280 mile round trip?

Absomotherfeckinlutely. "


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## Motozulu (26 Mar 2015)

Also - quick question Razer...both test bikes yesterday had creaks which we couldn't pin down as to where they were coming from - bit strange both bikes having the same creak? I put it down to the fact both these bikes look like they have been ridden into the ground and am assuming a new one will be fine.
You had any issues?


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## razer17 (29 Mar 2015)

Nah, no creaks on my end.


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## Motozulu (30 Mar 2015)

Cool - cheers.


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## Motozulu (2 Apr 2015)

Well, it's ordered just got to wait now, I think for the price and the spec list - it's a piggin bargain of a bike.


ZERO.1

BIRD-ZERO-1 

£1,310.00

1 x Bird Zero Acid Yellow/Hot Pink Large (19" / 45 cm) £0.00
1 x Bird frame lifetime transferrable warranty £0.00
1 x XT/Turbine 1x10 Groupset £0.00
1 x Shimano Zee mech Shadow+ FR £0.00
1 x Shimano XT 11-36 cassette £0.00
1 x Shimano XT iSpec B gear shifter 1x10 £0.00
1 x RaceFace Narrow Wide Chainring - 32T Black £0.00
1 x X-Fusion Sweep RL2 140mm - Black £0.00
1 x XT Fr & Rr brakes £0.00
1 x Hayes lightweight Fr (180mm) & Rr (160mm) Rotors £0.00
1 x RaceFace Turbine Wheelset (1800g) £0.00
1 x Tubeless Set Up Including Valves/Tape/Sealant (230g) £0.00
1 x Maxxis Minion DHF 2.3 EXO TR 3c Maxx Terra (825g) £5.00
1 x Maxxis Ardent 2.25 EXO TR Dual Compound (715g) £0.00
1 x RaceFace Atlas Riser - 1/2" 750mm Black (333g) £2.50
1 x RaceFace Atlas stem - 50mm Black (155g) £2.50
1 x Cane Creek Forty Tapered Headset (130g) £0.00
1 x RaceFace Half Nelson Grips - Black (92.5g) £0.00
1 x RaceFace Ride Seatpost (295g) £0.00
1 x Hope QR seat clamp 34.9 - black £0.00
1 x Charge Scoop Saddle - Black top/Black Base, Cro Mo Rails (245g) £0.00
Given weight at approx 12.2kg.


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## razer17 (9 Apr 2015)

Nice. I'm assuming it has arrived by now, how is it? 

I did a "half frontflip" on mine the other day. Tackled a really steep descent, chickened out and stopped, which was a terrible idea as I just ended up going arse over tit. Slammed the seat down, tried it again and made it. Maybe I need a dropper...


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## Motozulu (10 Apr 2015)

I would deffo have a dropper. First thing I'm saving for. No, btw, not being built until Mon/Tues. Can't wait mind.


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## Motozulu (10 Apr 2015)

And yes, having done my first Peak district ride on Weds I can confirm trying to stop on steep is NOT a good idea, you have to commit and speed is your friend.

I still came off but not as much as I thought - this is just one of the awesome trails we rode. No, I wouldn't fancy tackling this and 'The Beast' or 'Spud Alley' on the Bird!


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## Jody (11 Apr 2015)

Isn't that a path you're not meant to ride?


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## Motozulu (11 Apr 2015)

Jody, I have absolutely no idea - we were being guided by a local lad who rides the Peaks regularly and he knew exactly what we were and were'nt supposed to ride.... we even had an exchange with one of your arsey walker types who told us we shouldn't be riding the flagstone challenge path. Our guide calmly told him that the status had been changed to bridleway and after consulting his phone the walker stomped off defeated. Pratt!

So I would assume it was ok.


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## Jody (13 Apr 2015)

Could you ask your guide if he has any info on that part dropping back down to the A57. If you're allowed on it then I am having ago next trip to t'dam.


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## Motozulu (13 Apr 2015)

All I know is it's called the telegraph descent.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Apr 2015)

Dropper posts 

The Giant Contact Switch SL is around £135 if you shop around like I did, got a 30.9mm one at roughly that price but paid a few £ for a shim to bring it up to 31.6mm. Gear cable actuated so really easy to route and trim down excess..

Only problem is I need another one for my hardtail


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## Cubist (13 Apr 2015)

Jody said:


> Could you ask your guide if he has any info on that part dropping back down to the A57. If you're allowed on it then I am having ago next trip to t'dam.


Is it the permissive bridleway from halfway down Whinstone Lee Tor to Cutthroat bridge?


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## Motozulu (14 Apr 2015)

Cubist the answer I got was.....

"no mate as I said its not marked on any map iv seen. in fact its also known as 'the unmarked singletrack'.it starts from the western end of the bridleway at whinny lee tor and heads virtually south, down ladybower tor then it meets the bridleway at ladybower house"

Hope that makes sense to you - for me as a Peaks newbie I haven't got a clue.


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## Motozulu (14 Apr 2015)

And Razer....I am in love with this bike already... what a choice we have made...


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## Heigue'r (14 Apr 2015)

That looks the business!


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## razer17 (2 May 2015)

The bike sure is a thing of beauty, great picture that, too. 

I've managed to get a couple of scratches on mine, including a couple of the bit that attaches the brake lever to the handlebar. Those are from my unplanned half front flips. 

Did develop a slight clicking type noise a while ago. Couldn't figure out what was causing it, till I realised that it only happened when I was in the saddle, so I undid the clamp, repositioned the seat post, and did the clamp back up. Problem is gone, so I have to assume that I messed up and just didn't tighten the clamp properly. Been having a lot of fun on it, though. Especially doing skids, which I know is probably killing my tyre life, but it's so much fun.


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## w00hoo_kent (3 May 2015)

Just as likely you dislodged some crud on the post tube interface, that would do it.


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## Cubist (3 May 2015)

Motozulu said:


> Cubist the answer I got was.....
> 
> "no mate as I said its not marked on any map iv seen. in fact its also known as 'the unmarked singletrack'.it starts from the western end of the bridleway at whinny lee tor and heads virtually south, down ladybower tor then it meets the bridleway at ladybower house"
> 
> Hope that makes sense to you - for me as a Peaks newbie I haven't got a clue.


The photo you posted lines up with the bridge so you can find it on satellite view


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## Cubist (3 May 2015)

User28511 said:


> The bike sure is a thing of beauty, great picture that, too.
> 
> I've managed to get a couple of scratches on mine, including a couple of the bit that attaches the brake lever to the handlebar. Those are from my unplanned half front flips.
> 
> Did develop a slight clicking type noise a while ago. Couldn't figure out what was causing it, till I realised that it only happened when I was in the saddle, so I undid the clamp, repositioned the seat post, and did the clamp back up. Problem is gone, so I have to assume that I messed up and just didn't tighten the clamp properly. Been having a lot of fun on it, though. Especially doing skids, which I know is probably killing my tyre life, but it's so much fun.



Charge spoons are renowned for creaking and clicking. All of mine do.!


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## razer17 (3 May 2015)

Cubist said:


> Charge spoons are renowned for creaking and clicking. All of mine do.!


It wasn't the seat itself, since it went away when I redid the clamp. If it does start creaking a little, I'm not too fussed, because it's a great seat, the comfiest I've owned. I have bought another one to put on my roadie.


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## Motozulu (6 May 2015)

Razer I did put a bit of helitape in strategic positions but not much, scratches are part of a MTB and proves they are being used properly!


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## 3narf (9 Jan 2017)

Motozulu said:


> Razer I did put a bit of helitape in strategic positions but not much, scratches are part of a MTB and proves they are being used properly!


Hi
Just resurrecting this thread because I'm hoping to buy one next month!


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## 3narf (24 Jan 2017)

I've ridden Bird's Zero TR and AM, which are both superb. Ragley Piglets are now down to £949 on Chain Reaction, though... 

I like the Nukeproof Scout as well! Has anyone ridden one of those?


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## MarquisMatsugae (24 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> I've ridden Bird's Zero TR and AM, which are both superb. Ragley Piglets are now down to £949 on Chain Reaction, though...
> 
> I like the Nukeproof Scout as well! Has anyone ridden one of those?



No,but I can give you a wee bit of detail on a Blue Pig 
Rode one this time last year,and in short, it was a blast down hills and a good climber for a bike with a slack head angle.It also felt quite (absorbent ??) and soaked up the rough stuff.
I only had it for 30 mins as the actual owner was getting very paranoid about someone canning it on his pride and joy.
(It didn't stop him hooning mine though).
A big shout then to Ragley's bikes from me.
Sorry,I know that's not what you were looking for.
But y'know


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## Nigel-YZ1 (24 Jan 2017)

Here's a left field suggestion. Jamis Komodo Pro. I've had the 2016 version for a year now.
Fox 32 fork, 2x10 that has a better spread than my old 3x8, dropper post, hydraulic discs, tubeless compatible 27.5 wheels, wide Ritchey bars.
Originally a £1300 bike but down around £970 at Evans.
It'll take more punishment than I can dish out. I even find the saddle comfy, which is a rarety for me.

I know I'm getting to old fart type age but I've not regretted buying a relative unknown once. It seems Jamis are popular in the US.


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## MarquisMatsugae (25 Jan 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Here's a left field suggestion. Jamis Komodo Pro. I've had the 2016 version for a year now.
> Fox 32 fork, 2x10 that has a better spread than my old 3x8, dropper post, hydraulic discs, tubeless compatible 27.5 wheels, wide Ritchey bars.
> Originally a £1300 bike but down around £970 at Evans.
> It'll take more punishment than I can dish out. I even find the saddle comfy, which is a rarety for me.
> ...



Not the first name on my lips,but good shout with that one .


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Here's a left field suggestion. Jamis Komodo Pro. I've had the 2016 version for a year now.
> Fox 32 fork, 2x10 that has a better spread than my old 3x8, dropper post, hydraulic discs, tubeless compatible 27.5 wheels, wide Ritchey bars.
> Originally a £1300 bike but down around £970 at Evans.
> It'll take more punishment than I can dish out. I even find the saddle comfy, which is a rarety for me.
> ...



Thanks, I'll certainly take a look! Yes, they're a big brand in the US apparently. What happened to KHS? They were big in the '90s then they stopped importing them. Marin have always had a big presence over here, for a small company.

PS I used to pass through Penistone regularly on the way to my dad's in Yorkshire. I do miss living in Hayfield...


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> No,but I can give you a wee bit of detail on a Blue Pig
> Rode one this time last year,and in short, it was a blast down hills and a good climber for a bike with a slack head angle.It also felt quite (absorbent ??) and soaked up the rough stuff.
> I only had it for 30 mins as the actual owner was getting very paranoid about someone canning it on his pride and joy.
> (It didn't stop him hooning mine though).
> ...



Thanks, it all helps! I looked at the Blue Pig, which is also heavily discounted, but they only have the very small ones left (14.5" or something).

TBH the Piglet is such a bargain I'd be hard pressed to justify spending more! Only thing I'm scared of is that they drop the price again right after I press the button!


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## Spiderweb (25 Jan 2017)

What about this one, Kinesium alloy, XT/SLX Spec, Rock Shox Reba RL air forks, lots of sizes available. A bargain with 50% off @ £699!
http://www.startfitness.co.uk/sale/bikes-sale/forme-winscar-29-xt-hardtail-mtb-black-for48.html


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

Hmm... Not really looking at 29ers on account of my short legs!


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## Spiderweb (25 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> Hmm... Not really looking at 29ers on account of my short legs!


Lower your saddle, get a short frame you know it's a bargain!


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

Spiderweb said:


> Lower your saddle, get a short frame you know it's a bargain!



British company as well, by jove...


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## MarquisMatsugae (25 Jan 2017)

Spiderweb said:


> Lower your saddle, get a short frame you know it's a bargain!



Can't disagree that it's a bargain,but a 29er though ?
On a smaller frame wagon wheels look simply ridiculous.


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## Spiderweb (25 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> British company as well, by jove...


What about a 27.5" Forme Ripley at £499!!
http://www.startfitness.co.uk/sale/bikes-sale/forme-ripley-1-hardtail-mtb-blue-for93.html


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

That's pretty good for the money! Plenty left over for a dropper post, single front ring and better tyres...


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## Spiderweb (25 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> That's pretty good for the money! Plenty left over for a dropper post, single front ring and better tyres...


I would leave the double and tyres and see how you get on first, you may require more Climing gears and the tyres may surprise you.


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## 3narf (25 Jan 2017)

I usually get by with one gear...


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## 3narf (28 Jan 2017)

Ragley Piglet down to £899 now! I had to do it...


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## MarquisMatsugae (28 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> View attachment 335210
> View attachment 335211
> View attachment 335212
> 
> ...



Nice one ,I love it.
Spec ?


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## 3narf (28 Jan 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Nice one ,I love it.
> Spec ?



Manitou fork and Deore gears. 2X10 but I'll be converting it to 1X as soon as it hits my doormat!


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## MarquisMatsugae (28 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> Manitou fork and Deore gears. 2X10 but I'll be converting it to 1X as soon as it hits my doormat!


Nice one, but don't be too hasty and have a few rides with the 2X


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## 3narf (29 Jan 2017)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Nice one, but don't be too hasty and have a few rides with the 2X



Nah, I'm convinced the time to do it is when it's new! 'Add lightness and simplicate...'


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## MarquisMatsugae (29 Jan 2017)

3narf said:


> Nah, I'm convinced the time to do it is when it's new! 'Add lightness and simplicate...'



Ok


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## 3narf (3 Feb 2017)

Nothing beats getting a new bike delivered! Not nowadays, anyway. 

















First job is to remove the front mech, LH shifter, cable and swap the two rings for my new RaceFace NW ring!


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## MarquisMatsugae (3 Feb 2017)

3narf said:


> Nothing beats getting a new bike delivered! Not nowadays, anyway.
> 
> View attachment 336001
> 
> ...



There's nothing like the smell of a new bike in the morning !!!!


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## 3narf (7 Mar 2017)

This is where I'm up to with the new bike. 

It's now 1x10 with narrow/wide ring; dropper post replaced for a lighter Brand-X stealth one. Seat is the Fabric one off my Cannondale.

I have some Wellgo DMR copy pedals on the way. I suppose then I'll have to ride it & get it dirty!


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## Mireystock (10 Mar 2017)

Looks lovely ! I'd love a Ragley.


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## MarquisMatsugae (10 Mar 2017)

3narf said:


> This is where I'm up to with the new bike.
> 
> It's now 1x10 with narrow/wide ring; dropper post replaced for a lighter Brand-X stealth one. Seat is the Fabric one off my Cannondale.
> 
> ...



Farkin' love it !!!


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

Very pleasant. I'm partial to a bit of Ragleyness.


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## MarquisMatsugae (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Very pleasant. I'm partial to a bit of Ragleyness.



Fit for a Lord .
Suits you Sir


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## Drago (10 Mar 2017)

A keen lady cyclist in our SAR team as a Piglet built up with XTR, and I've always admired it.

I need to get round to finish building up my Pace, then I might have a go at a Ragley.


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## MarquisMatsugae (10 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Pace.


Marquis like Pace.
Maybe Marquis see Drago Pace one day.


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## 3narf (15 Mar 2017)

Finally got the bike dirty at 417 Bike Park!


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## prawny (16 Mar 2017)

Like that, it was on my shortlist, but was too much ££ ultimately.

I bought this instead, it's a ripper.


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## Crackle (16 Mar 2017)

3narf said:


> Finally got the bike dirty at 417 Bike Park!
> 
> View attachment 342618


And.......?


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## 3narf (16 Mar 2017)

prawny said:


> Like that, it was on my shortlist, but was too much ££ ultimately.
> 
> I bought this instead, it's a ripper.
> 
> ...



Looks like similar geometry to the Piglet, and a bit lighter I should imagine! Same tyres, too; how are you getting on with them?


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## 3narf (16 Mar 2017)

Crackle said:


> And.......?



It was great, I think it was a good buy for the price. I think the mediocre review on Bike Radar must have put off a lot of folk; pity nobody else did a test...


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## prawny (21 Mar 2017)

3narf said:


> Looks like similar geometry to the Piglet, and a bit lighter I should imagine! Same tyres, too; how are you getting on with them?



Tyres are great grip wise, wire bead and not tubeless versions though. Still, they've gone up (and stayed up) tubeless easy enough and I'm not that fussed on the weight that I'm going to replace them soon. 

Went out on it properly for the first time last tuesday over the Chase and got a few PRs and 2nd and 3rd bests which I was pleasantly surprised about, I've not sorted the tyre pressure out yet and most of my best times were set on a full suss bike that I was more used too. 

Bit of a bargain for £820.


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