# Outsized boxes on National Express buses



## 22camels (7 Apr 2016)

I am wondering if anyone has any recent experience transporting an oversized cardboard box on a National Express bus.

My box will contain a bike, but bike-specific stuff is irrelevant to this question, which could just as well be about skis or musical instruments. The dimensions of my box will be 138cm x 73cm x 19cm. 

Their luggage policy http://www.nationalexpress.com/footer-pages/luggage.aspx?utm_source=Redirect&utm_medium=Marketing&utm_campaign=SERVICE Luggage Policy says, amongst other things, that:
"Height, width or depth of these extra items must not be bigger than 85cm."
"We may agree, subject to available room, to carry additional luggage such as: skis, surfboards, folding/dismantled bicycles, provided that they are in suitable protective packaging."

I am happy to pay the additional £8/£10 for an extra bag allowance which should in theory give me some extra leverage if the driver is being difficult, but I am not sure, as my box will still exceed 85cm in length and if the hold looks like filling up on that day, I could be out of luck. 

I will need a 99.999% guarantee that the driver will accept the box on the day. I will be taking an early morning coach from Wales to Heathrow to catch an afternoon long distance flight and cannot face the uncertainty. Taking a train is not an option (there is no space for such a large box on the train I would be catching and so I would have to stand beside the box in between carriages for four hours and annoy lots of people). I can easily travel with the bike unboxed by train but I am not prepared to box it up at the airport, it is way too much hassle to deal with. Hence I need to have it boxed up in advance, which is why I am looking at the coach. 

I spoke to a ticket sales agent at my local bus station and they suggested calling National Express in advance to obtain additional assurance (apparently they can broadcast a message to the driver of the given bus), but I am not sure if this counts for much. 

Basically, if it's iffy, then I will have to travel the day before and spend the night at the airport, which is far from ideal too. 

Any suggestions would be great. 

Thanks!


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## growingvegetables (7 Apr 2016)

Fwiw, any time I've taken a coach, there has always been loads of room for baggage. Far, far more room than baggage. But I'm not a regular.


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## classic33 (8 Apr 2016)

Are you happy to have the box turned on it's side?
And one thing worth considering is that the driver has the final say on any item loaded. Wether you've paid or not. Swap coaches half-way down and you might find the new driver doesn't allow you to load it.

The broadcast message isn't worth the paper it's written on.

The height restriction comes from the luggage hold height.

Check with both their local operator and those along the route wether they'll actually take it. IF you're able.


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## rugby bloke (8 Apr 2016)

When my son came home from Uni for the Easter holiday using National Express he was restricted to 2 bags and was not able to take his guitar ... not sure if that helps or not !


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## Blue Hills (8 Apr 2016)

classic33 said:


> And one thing worth considering is that the driver has the final say on any item loaded. Wether you've paid or not. Swap coaches half-way down and you might find the new driver doesn't allow you to load it.
> 
> The broadcast message isn't worth the paper it's written on.



Yes, that line in national express's terms has always bothered me - irrespective of whatever the size of your package or the space available, possibly with a bit of minimal rearranging, it surely leaves you at the mercy of a driver having a hissy fit, who had a bad night the night before, who isn't getting enough and thinks you may be, who doesn't like guitars, your facial hair, a certain look about you or whatever. You can't dismiss the human element in these things.

I'd be inclined to pack the bike at the airport.


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2016)

I disregard the T&C's and often get bikes on transport I shouln't be able to if I followed the T&C's. But, I wouldn't try if I needed a guaranteed 99.999% successful outcome to catch a flight!


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

Thanks for the feedback. 
Is having the box on its side with suitcases on top of it a serious problem? 
I wonder what others in the UK living several hours from a major airport do when they want to travel with a boxed bike - get a lift in a car?
Boxing it up at airport would be fine if I had some experience boxing bikes (I hear that the first time you do it you should allow 3-4 hours..) and if I was sure I could find a box at the airport - neither of which are true. So the next best thing would be to box it up in Central London and take it on the Heathrow Express (which I've done before and know is fine). However (unless I can fold up the box I've got and carry it along) this requires either sourcing a box from a London bike shop and finding a space to box the bike up, or getting a bike shop to do it for me, either way I would need to be in London 24hrs before my flight departs to be sure. 
This is complicated! 
My usual packing method for flying with bike is a soft bag but I do not want to take chances with this particular airline (I think they will only accept a boxed bike, not a bagged one).


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## classic33 (8 Apr 2016)

Check back with the booking agent. Get them to phone National Express, whilst you're there, and ask about the rules regarding carrying bicycles(seperate set again).
They stand to loose the commission on the sale of the ticket. At the least.

How long before you need to know?


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

I travel in four weeks but I need to decide what I am going to do in the next week as have some other travel plans in between. I think asking National Express about their bicycle policy is just confusing the issue. They take folding bikes, but with full size bikes their policy is ambiguous. So I would just ask them about taking an oversized box. I could call them now but I am not really sure I would trust their assurances.


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## classic33 (8 Apr 2016)

22camels said:


> I travel in four weeks. I think asking National Express about their bicycle policy is just confusing the issue. They take folding bikes, but with full size bikes their policy is ambiguous. So I would just ask them about taking an oversized box. I could call them now but I am not really sure I would trust their assurances.


Couple of numbers for you
0121 6251278
01582 415841
01582 7844440
08705 808080
01582 2453437(John Gilbert)

Previous thread, 2011
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/taking-the-national-express.75768/


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## MarkF (8 Apr 2016)

22camels said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Is having the box on its side with suitcases on top of it a serious problem?
> I wonder what others in the UK living several hours from a major airport do when they want to travel with a boxed bike - get a lift in a car?
> Boxing it up at airport would be fine if I had some experience boxing bikes (I hear that the first time you do it you should allow 3-4 hours..) and if I was sure I could find a box at the airport - neither of which are true. So the next best thing would be to box it up in Central London and take it on the Heathrow Express (which I've done before and know is fine). However (unless I can fold up the box I've got and carry it along) this requires either sourcing a box from a London bike shop and finding a space to box the bike up, or getting a bike shop to do it for me, either way I would need to be in London 24hrs before my flight departs to be sure.
> ...



Personally I wouldn't rely on an employee name/reference number authorising you to take the bike on the bus, not when a flight is at stake.
I think the first time I boxed a bike it took about 30 mins, I could do it in less than 10 now. No idea where 3-4 hours is from?
I had a similar problem once, I got bag from a Pedragalejo bike shop, (Malaga suburb) and rode with it to the airport, folded x3 lengthways, resting on my bars and rear rack. It wasn't a nice 20 miles though.
Take your bike on the train with the box folded flat and pack at the airport, hassle is minimal.


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

Thanks, that might be an idea - I have sufficient experience bagging a bike at the airport with short time constraints, so as long as I did a trial boxing run at home before I got to the airport I might be able to do it. The 3-4 hours I got from this article: http://travellingtwo.com/resources/packingyourbike


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## classic33 (8 Apr 2016)

22camels said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> *Is having the box on its side with suitcases on top of it a serious problem? *
> I wonder what others in the UK living several hours from a major airport do when they want to travel with a boxed bike - get a lift in a car?
> Boxing it up at airport would be fine if I had some experience boxing bikes (I hear that the first time you do it you should allow 3-4 hours..) and if I was sure I could find a box at the airport - neither of which are true. So the next best thing would be to box it up in Central London and take it on the Heathrow Express (which I've done before and know is fine). However (unless I can fold up the box I've got and carry it along) this requires either sourcing a box from a London bike shop and finding a space to box the bike up, or getting a bike shop to do it for me, either way I would need to be in London 24hrs before my flight departs to be sure.
> ...


Would you lay the bike down on its side and let others put stuff on top of it outside of a box? The driver doesn't load luggage, due to to Health and Safety!


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

I guess it depends on how it is packed within the box. It's also a risk when they load your bike into the plane, but that I am prepared to live with.


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## classic33 (8 Apr 2016)

22camels said:


> I guess it depends on how it is packed within the box. It's also a risk when they load your bike into the plane, but that I am prepared to live with.


Difference being those at the airport have been shown how to load the plane, as opposed to someone throwing a case in so that they can get a seat.

You'll miss the ferry times I assume?


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## MichaelW2 (8 Apr 2016)

The only time I have taken a bike on NE coaches, it was refused because families wanted to load up the hold with holdalls full of TV and other Fast Moving Consumer Goods. I had a mad dash to the railway station to make my Stansted flight.


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

What makes me think the National Express option might just work out is that I will be boarding the airport coach at its first stop, I know there are usually only a few other passengers at that time of day, so space should not be an issue initially, and under normal circumstances there are no changes of coach (though possibly a change of driver) and it gets me straight to the airport with only 3-4 stops along the way. I get to pack the bike in the comfort of my own living room. And if I pack it well I don't see why it shouldn't resist some squashing stress..


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## Rasmus (8 Apr 2016)

I'm on the coaches between Bristol and Heathrow pretty regularly. There is generally plenty of space in the hold, but also occasions where it gets packed. Don't think absolute certainty of carriage is possible. Getting on at the origin is good. If possible, also try and find a service terminating at Heathrow (not continuing to Gatwick). 

For an extra £10 you can get a flexible ticket so you can switch to an hour later if the first driver doesn't let you on. That will work on the return as well.


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## MichaelW2 (8 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4228351, member: 259"]But not in a box, I suppose?[/QUOTE]
In a CTC bag


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## Blue Hills (8 Apr 2016)

22camels said:


> My usual packing method for flying with bike is a soft bag but I do not want to take chances with this particular airline (I think they will only accept a boxed bike, not a bagged one).



ah, I see that you are an experienced bike traveller and have used "soft bags before" - I had assumed from your initial post and your extreme keeness on boxing from home that you were a first time traveller with a bike.

But what is this airline that only takes bikes in boxes? Sounds odd.

Have you considered a Ground Effect Tardis - a "soft bag" that packs to the size of an A4 pad but can be pretty well padded with various things. I have used one - packed the bike at home (yes, you are right you do need to allow a fair bit of time) then carried it along with two other bags (one a full sized hold bag) by myself - across central London by two London buses (ie: including a change), then on the airport bus. ie: All public transport, no cars or taxis involved. All went well. That airline was easyjet. The bike was an aluminium hybrid. No carbon I stress. There are loads of reasons why I want no carbon. 

info on Tardis here:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/categ...es/product/review-ground-effect-tardis-31674/

http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/search?q=tardis


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

Not that experienced but not a beginner - have flown about 10 times in Europe and a couple of times to and within Asia, in all cases using soft bag (except one when I bought a bike from central london and it came already boxed up) but this time I want to box it as I am then 100% certain they will accept it whereas with the bag I am going to have an uneasy feeling of will they won't they (even though most airlines will take bagged bikes, they respond much more confidently to the question "do you take a bike in a box" than "do you take a bike in a bag" as there are many types of bags e.g. plastic CTC bag which is often not accepted). Plus I think with a box, damage is less likely. The airline is Vietnam airlines who it seems have had a somewhat iffy reputation for carrying bikes in the past (charging extra etc.) however I think they are ok now and for this trip and I have visited their office in London personally to double check. 

I don't want to spend anything on the bag as I will be throwing it away when I get there. I already have an old soft bag but as said above - I think I want to do box for this trip. Thanks for the tip though - I might try the Tardis some other time.


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## Blue Hills (8 Apr 2016)

OK, Tardis can of course be re-used - and is so small that it can be carried on the bike on the actual trip - I have also heard of folk burying it near their return flight airport 

All the best for your trip - will watch the thread with interest - do please report back on what you decide and how things go on the actual journey.


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## 22camels (8 Apr 2016)

Thanks - I will let you know how it goes.

I've carried my soft bag with me on the bike before, it's only 1kg and quite compact but that is still a bit too much useless weight to be carrying around.. burying it of course is a good idea but I won't be flying back from the same airport..


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## classic33 (12 Apr 2016)

Any progress @22camels?


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## steveindenmark (13 Apr 2016)

22 camels. I have flown my bikes all over Europe and have never used a cardboard box. I make my bike bags out of spinnaker cloth which makes it as protective as a plastic bag and have never had a problem. I think the horror stories about bikes on planes are pretty rare compared to the number that get through unscathed. A lot of people use the CTC plastic bags. Just make sure you remove the waterbottles, pump, computer and anything else that can come loose. 

When I get to my destination airport I set the bike up, Roll the bike bag up and ride off. I have boxed a bike up before for someone else and it is a 30 minute job.


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## Blue Hills (13 Apr 2016)

Good post. Just one comment - someone who hasn't done it before steve maybe better allow more than 30 minutes. Best not to be rushed. I wouldn't pretend that packing the Tardis is a fast job - a tight fit so can be a semi struggle - but a great system. Should also stress that you need extra packing inside it such as cardboard, pipe lagging etc, clothes in protective (from grease/oil) plastic bags. Unlikely you could bury all the packing but you can obtain new packing for the flight back. Or of course leave stuff with friendly first night accommodation if you are coming back the same way.


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## steveindenmark (13 Apr 2016)

Yes you are right Blue Hills. Pipe lagging is also a good idea and if you bin the box you can keep it with you for the return leg as it is light and easy to carry. Protecting the rear mech is also advisable.

This is a photo of my road bike packed up for a Winter in the loft. This is how I fly it as well. the only difference is that the pedals would be off and I would wrap it in a very thin elastic rope to give the handlers something to get hold of. The elastic rope is then also used for a washing line, for making shelters, fastening things to the bike etc, etc.

It is thin cloth but does the job. I make it bright so it is easy to see at airports. I dont know if the colour effects the handlers but the bikes turn up OK. I use the cover as a basemat for the tent and wash it when I get home.


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## Blue Hills (13 Apr 2016)

Impressed, very. Great idea to then use it as tent base/groundsheet and of course it is advisable to use one with modern tents anyway so no extra weight. Rear mech i unscrew and fasten between rear triangle with zip ties - surprisingly easy to sort reindexing if you take photocopied instructions (and haven't fallen for the mega rear gears marketing spiel)


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## classic33 (13 Apr 2016)

We've to assume the coach ticket hasn't been booked yet. NX require 14 days notice if you're planning on taking a bike.


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## Ajax Bay (13 Apr 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Rear mech i unscrew and fasten between rear triangle with zip ties - surprisingly easy to sort reindexing, if you take photocopied instructions


Since you're best leaving the cable attached to the RD when you tape it between seatstay and chainstay, no "re-indexing" should be required. When setting the bike up at the destination bus station/airport just screw the RD back into the hanger and it should be ready to go.


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## mmmmartin (14 Apr 2016)

ICBA but maybe someone should get the UK Cycling people to do some sort of campaign with National Express coaches.


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## classic33 (14 Apr 2016)

mmmmartin said:


> ICBA but maybe someone should get the UK Cycling people to do some sort of campaign with National Express coaches.


Mentioned upthread is a "booking fee", doesn't have to be paid and it guarantees nothing, travelwise.
If the driver(s) were to get that, or part of that, I bet you'd have no trouble getting the bike into the luggage area.

Limiting factor is the actual height of the luggage compartment. Standard bike box is just too big to fit in, in an upright posistion.


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## 22camels (15 Apr 2016)

Whilst an upright position would be preferred, I am struggling to imagine how the box would stay upright (it is now ~80cm high, but 20cm wide).

Where is the 14 day notice thing stated? As far as I am concerned, I am carrying a box of luggage, not a bike (for the purposes of national express).

Bike is now boxed up and I have booked the coach ticket, funfare,with no flexibility to shift to later coach, nor any extra luggage fee (it looked kind of useless paying that supplement in advance since it says I can pay on the day too). I have a later train as an insurance policy, though that is also not 100% certain it will be allowed, otherwise I would have gone with that. Put together I think the chance of success by bus or train exceeds 99%, although individually they are perhaps 90% bets, if you get my drift. 

Will let you know how it pans out, not travelling till May.

I think long haul flights are a bit different to European flights eg I doubt I would risk taking a "ctc plastic bag" on a long haul flight (though it depends on the airline and the airport).


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## classic33 (16 Apr 2016)

The 14 day limit isn't something that is generally made known to the person travelling. In the same way that they never mentioned that the final call on what is loaded, is the drivers, not the companys. 

As for keeping it upright there are stays/supports within the bays. Both drivers and company will tell you that they are not responsible should any item go missing. I've disagreed over this bit, as access to the luggage bay/compartment is down to the driver alone.

NX are doing themselves no favours on this sort of thing. Given they're the eurolines operator in the UK.


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## Blue Hills (16 Apr 2016)

classic33 said:


> NX are doing themselves no favours on this sort of thing. Given they're the eurolines operator in the UK.



Agree, and no favours to passengers - more of an issue now for folks going to stansted from london after stansted airport chopped off terravision's bus link for not paying enough* for a contract place. * bribery against consumer interest another definition.


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## classic33 (16 Apr 2016)

Same problems elsewhere!
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/t...-policy-on-taking-bikes-anyone-know-the-score
http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=14801


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## classic33 (17 Apr 2016)

Get stickers made up with your coach travel ticket numbers on them and use them on the box when needed.
"Stickers" need be nothing more than plain white paper strips with the numbers printed on them. Sellotaped in place before setting off on the coach part of your trip. If you write them on the box cover them up with return one.


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## classic33 (19 Apr 2016)

@22camels
The 14 day notice is the eurolines rule, whilst the luggage payment you mentioned doesn't apply to bikes.
Priority is given to wheelchair users, for storage. 
At any stage in your journey you can be asked to remove your luggage from the coach and wait for the next one. Even if you had paid the fee mentioned, now £15 by the way.

If you're asked if it's packed as it should be, answer yes. 
They(National Express) require the handlebars, wheels and pedals removing. 
Drivers have the right to open and inspect any item in the luggage compartment. Removing it if they have doubts about it.
So take some tape with you in the box, to reseal just in case it is opened.
*Tip.* Avoid plain sellotape/brown tape in parts. IF the box is opened you'll then be able to tell. Use at either end and in the centre of any long joins/seals. Also useful at the airports. You have a visual indicator of the box being tampered with.


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## 22camels (6 May 2016)

Update: it was fine, no worries whatsoever.

More detail: I paid £19 advance for the 05:45 Wednesday morning NE coach from Swansea to Heathrow. If it had not worked out, I would have had the 06:45 coach and the 07:28 great western train as insurance (they would have cost £50 more). The first coach was fine, boarding at its first stop no questions asked, even after we had picked up all the passengers at the other stops, the luggage compartment was not full and my box was quite happy lying horizontally with nothing on top of it. Maybe if it was busier it would have been different. I was checked in and chilling out in the departure lounge with 3 hours to spare until departure.


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## albal (22 Jan 2020)

Currently booking a ne coach. Travel early March. I have never had a problem yet, been on half a dozen ne coaches. 
Same problem tho there is 2 travelling. Their bike policy is rubbish. Will update soon.


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## Blue Hills (22 Jan 2020)

albal said:


> Currently booking a ne coach. Travel early March. I have never had a problem yet, been on half a dozen ne coaches.
> Same problem tho there is 2 travelling. Their bike policy is rubbish. Will update soon.


Can you clarify?
Why do you say their policy is rubbish if you have never had a problem?

Do you mean that they refuse to be clear about the rules/booking and leave you worrying that it is down to the driver on the day?


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## albal (22 Jan 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Can you clarify?
> Why do you say their policy is rubbish if you have never had a problem?
> 
> Do you mean that they refuse to be clear about the rules/booking and leave you worrying that it is down to the driver on the day?


They explain that it is down to driver discretion. What does this mean? That's what I mean by rubbish. I paid for an extra bag, as the op did to give me Lea way. Shouldn't have to do it. Miss this coach I,m stuffed. Must of had a decent driver over the years I guess.
tho I do recall a 0300 HR coach driver muttering something about having to load x2 bikes on 'his' bus.


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## classic33 (22 Jan 2020)

albal said:


> They explain that it is down to driver discretion. What does this mean? That's what I mean by rubbish. I paid for an extra bag, as the op did to give me Lea way. Shouldn't have to do it. Miss this coach I,m stuffed. Must of had a decent driver over the years I guess.
> tho I do recall a 0300 HR coach driver muttering something about having to load x2 bikes on 'his' bus.


Driver will watch/supervise! you loading your luggage, but shouldn't be actually loading it.

This to prevent any claims of mishandling, and the ever present health & safety "excuse". They were hit a few years ago with claims for injuries from drivers.


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