# 531 frame



## Joe24 (11 Apr 2008)

Hello,
I've been given an old 531 frame. At the moment the stem is stuck and isnt budging. The person that gave it me had put WD40 on it and clamped it in the vice and tried to get it moving but that hasnt worked. He said he has also tried to hit it out from the other side but it hasnt got it out. So i took it next door and he is taking it to his garage tomorrow to have a go at releasing the top bolt thingy so the stem can come out.(It does need to come out, he cut that to get his bars off) Also when you turn the stem and forks you can feel it isnt smooth, is this a sign of anything?
Will it be good for turning into a fixed, i think it has horizontal dropouts, i asked him and he said its got the old style drop outs. I can post a picture tomorrow if needed. I want to satisfy my mind before i start building it up.
Overall its a nice frame. He had it re-sprayed a few years ago to make it look nice, which is does. It will also match my kit i already have.
So any help on those things would be great. 
Thanks
Joe


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## Fab Foodie (11 Apr 2008)

Sounds good!
Who was the original frame-builder?

Likely it will have the old-style horizontal drop-outs which means it will be perfect for a fixie build.
Measure the distance between the rear drop-outs to tell what size hub it will take, might be 120mm, or 130mm, fixed hubs/wheels are available in both sizes. If needed get your LBS to remove stuck bits, I did that with my 531 re-build. Regarding smoothness of fork movement probably the bearings are NFG, just get a new headset fitted.
Couple of thoughts, get the frame alignment checked to ensure everything is true. (See Sheldon Brown). Wash the inside of the frame with white spirit and see what washes out to gauge the rust situation. Some oil thinned with white spirit can be used for a bit of rustproofing.

Soulds like a good project. Post some pictures soon!


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## simonali (12 Apr 2008)

If it's a quill stem you need to leave the bolt in, undo it a little and then give it a whack to loosen the wedge.


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## bobg (12 Apr 2008)

BTW if, when you move the handlebars to either side as per hard cornering, they feel a bit tight at the extremes but ok in the mid range then it might be worth checking that the fork tube ( the bit that goes up into the frame ) isnt slightly bent. Its not easy to see but your LBS might be able to help. It'd be shame to build it and the find this out later. Re the potentially seized wedge in the stem, I had some success recentl by turning the frame upside down, pouring diesel into the head tube and leaving it to soak for a day or so. Any grating can usually be remedied by a new headset or just cleaning and relubing the cages/loose bearings. Good luck anway and I hope this helps


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## Joe24 (12 Apr 2008)

I think the wedge is out. Is it a little cone shaped bit that screws on to the long bolt? That came out easy.
But still the stem wont move. Next door took it to work, and pulled it, put a block of wood there and hit it, clamped it and put alot of pressure trying to pull it out but still it hasnt moved. He's put some acid stuff in it, and put some WD40 in it. We put it in a vice, put a length of wood between the forks and tried to get some movement. Going to try again later, or leave it till tomorrow. We've thought about putting abit of heat into the stem and seeing if that will work it free. Failing that another idea we had was to put a small metal pole in to the end of the stem and hitting it to see if that will get it out. 
Any other ideas?
If it still doesnt come out then i'll take it to LBS and see if they can do anything. I want them to check out the frame first aswell before i start anything. 
Cheers for the help so far!


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## hubgearfreak (12 Apr 2008)

may help?
http://sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html


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## Joe24 (12 Apr 2008)

Bloody thing still isnt moving. We've gone in from the other side and gave it some hard hits with the hammer, but its still not shifting.
I cut the top of the stem off, then cut down the stem as far as i could and pinched it in the vice slightly. Still not moving, i dont want to pinch it too hard and bend anything else thats connected. 
So next door is going to take it to work again on Monday and get an electric cutter on it to see if he can cut through the stem section. If that doesnt work then he said i could try it in a lathe(spelling?) and get it out that way. Luckily i do know someone with a very good lathe. 
Anyway here are some pictures of it.
















Not sure the original frame-builder, where will it tell me on the frame?
Cheers


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## hubgearfreak (12 Apr 2008)

maybe you read the link i found, maybe you didn't?

here are the relevant bits.

# Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia.

# If nothing else works, the final resort is the old hacksaw blade trick. Cut the seatpost off so that about 1/2" is left sticking out, then insert a hacksaw blade into the seatpost and carefully cut a slit in the post. This is very laborious, and you run the risk of damaging the frame if you cut too far, but this approach cannot fail. Once you have cut the slit, grab one edge of the cut with a locking plier and roll the seatpost up inside itself and pull it out.


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## Joe24 (13 Apr 2008)

Its the hacksaw blade idea that i have tried. The blade kept slipping and wouldnt cut when i put it inside. Where do i get ammonia from? There has already been an acid stuff put on it when it was in the garage. Unfortunatly not enough to let it soak. At the moment thd stem is cut at the top, but not inside the frame.


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## hubgearfreak (13 Apr 2008)

try a hardware shop, window cleaner contains it, maybe B&Q have a stronger one?



Joe24 said:


> The blade kept slipping and wouldnt cut when i put it inside.



it's a tedious job..patience is required, a good blade and some strong gloves


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2008)

It is out. I think they used an electric hacksaw powertool to cut down so far then squeeze it out.
Here is the stem.









And here are the rear drop-outs. They are horizontal yes?





Where is it best to put in the white spirit and oil mix. Will the bottle holder holes be a good place to put it in?
Cheers for the help.


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## simonali (14 Apr 2008)

Not to put a downer on your new project, but that frame looks to me to be much too big for you, looking at your Giant. It looks to be 24-25" in size.

Big frames and a low seat were trendy in the seventies, but not now!


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## Joe24 (14 Apr 2008)

Which picture of the Giant are you looking at? I've put it up against the giant frame(with the wheels beind where they should be) and its only slightly higher on the top tube(about half an inch, maybe a bit more. Its ment to be a 23.5" frame.
I just measured the distance between the dropout and its 140mm. Is that still good?
(edit: might help if i measure it right. Its 130mm from the inside to th inside of the rear dropouts. Doh!)


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## simonali (14 Apr 2008)

The one in the garden. I'm only guessing, but it looks to be maybe a medium frame and the equivalent of a 23.5" would be an XL one. All guesses, though!


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## Joe24 (15 Apr 2008)

Checked it today by putting a wheel on the back and comparing it to the Giant, and going by the seat post height on the Giant, i will have about 5-6" at least of seat post showing. Are 531 frames shorter length wise then frames now. It seems a tad shorter then the Giant.
Does anyone know where i can get a 130mm fixed hub? I went to 2 LBS, one didnt know, but said he could ask around. The other phoned someone and that person didnt know, so a search on a website we found a Surly one. This one here. But it was about £57 i think. Anyone know of a slightly cheaper one?
Cheers


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## GrahamG (16 Apr 2008)

I've used a couple of On One hubs (I presume they're ambrosio identikit copies). You're probably better off just getting the LBS to cold-set the rear end down to 120mm as you'll have far more choice.

Check http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Rear.html £15 - bargain. I've had one going for about 2 years now, good sealed bearings (although I do have some 'better' ones for when they eventually need replacing), and finish is very good quality with no sign of pitting etc. through two winters.

BTW, are you intending to do this on the cheap? If so I have some bits and bobs in the parts box that'll probably come in useful for you - just drop me a PM.


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## GrahamG (16 Apr 2008)

Forgot to mention - you will probably find that it's 120mm or 135mm (MTB width) from many places. 

Just realised that on-one have mostly black left, here's a pair of Ambrosio high-flange hubs for £40 SJS Cycles


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## Joe24 (16 Apr 2008)

Are the SJS ones any good? I was going to give them a ring to see if they do phone orders, but they were shut. The women on the phone message sounds very nice though.
As for the budget, well i havent got a huge amount to spend, but alot of people in the cycle club i am in are giving me some stuff they dont use and selling me bits they have spare cheaply.
A friend who does spray painting is going to spray paint it for me cheap aswell. On the front there is abit near where the front mech goes that sticks out. The only thing i can think it was for was a chain guard, but i'm not sure. Its on the bottom of the seat tube. Do i need it on there? Should i leave it on or just take it off. 
Cheers


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## GrahamG (16 Apr 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Are the SJS ones any good? I was going to give them a ring to see if they do phone orders, but they were shut. The women on the phone message sounds very nice though.
> As for the budget, well i havent got a huge amount to spend, but alot of people in the cycle club i am in are giving me some stuff they dont use and selling me bits they have spare cheaply.
> A friend who does spray painting is going to spray paint it for me cheap aswell. On the front there is abit near where the front mech goes that sticks out. The only thing i can think it was for was a chain guard, but i'm not sure. Its on the bottom of the seat tube. Do i need it on there? Should i leave it on or just take it off.
> Cheers



Ambrosio hubs are very well regarded, almost in spite of their low price - you can't go wrong with them, they're pretty much standard issue on most of the off-the-shelf single speed/fixed wheel bikes although sometimes re-branded (like the on-ones). You can always upgrade the bearings later on which are a straightforward sealed 'drop in' cartridge.

As for the front mech bit - all I can see on the picture is the braze on for the front mech (many modern frames just use band-on mechs but not as a rule), is there something smaller lower down that I can't see? If you want a 'clean' look then by all means take a blow torch to it and take it off.

I'll respond to your PM directly about parts.


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## Joe24 (18 Apr 2008)

Hello,
i've been given some rear sprockets, two 22tooth ones( one in really good conditon the other needing a good clean) and a 12 tooth one, if i remember right. I also got a chainset. The bigger ring is a 44 tooth and the smaller one is something like 38 tooth. Would the 44 by 22 tooth be too small to start with? My area is a tad hilly, only a few short-ish steep hills. 
Other thing is i cant get the smaller chain-ring off. Its an old french make, and the smaller chain ring has a different set of allen key bolts but i cant get them undone. Will a good spray with WD40 or something free them up or should i just leave the smaller chainring on?


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## feckless (20 Apr 2008)

Joe24 said:


> Are the SJS ones any good?



Those SJS hubs look identical to the Joytech hubs I'm using (the same hubs that get sold under all kinds of brandnames). 

They're not the lightest hubs in the world but for £36 a pair, they are excellent value. 

Quality-wise they're certainly far, far better than the Deore hubs on my mountain bike (also about £35 a pair at SJS) and maybe even a little better than the American Classic hubs on my other road bike.

The bearings are super-smooth, which is always reassuring, and you can adjust the OLN distance using appropriate spacers.

f


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## Joe24 (20 Apr 2008)

Thanks for that Feckless. 
Going to take the frame in the bike shop and get them to check it out then probably buy the SJS ones. 

Cheers.


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