# BSA Tour de France



## EltonFrog (6 Sep 2018)

As mentioned in the other thread I’ve made a start on mine. 

The bike is now a box of bits. 

From this to this. 







To this 






Can someone tell me if this (below) comes off and if so how ?


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## Cycleops (6 Sep 2018)

Well done so far. @biggs682 is your man!


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## biggs682 (6 Sep 2018)

@CarlP either use a spanner that fits across the flats poss 9/16ths size but could be wrong , if it's rock tight then get a big nut and bolt poke the bolt through from the bottom bracket and just keep tightening the nut up and as it gets really tight it should start to unwind the bottom bracket shell , see 1966 Dawes Debonair


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## Oldfentiger (6 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> @CarlP either use a spanner that fits across the flats poss 9/16ths size but could be wrong , if it's rock tight then get a big nut and bolt poke the bolt through from the bottom bracket and just keep tightening the nut up and as it gets really tight it should start to unwind the bottom bracket shell , see 1966 Dawes Debonair



The drive side cup is RH thread, isn't it? If so, by continuing to wind when the nut is tight will be further tightening the BB cup.
Apologies if I have this arse about face.


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## biggs682 (6 Sep 2018)

Oldfentiger said:


> The drive side cup is RH thread, isn't it? If so, by continuing to wind when the nut is tight will be further tightening the BB cup.
> Apologies if I have this arse about face.



It works on all the one's i have struggled to undo due to being rusted etc etc in place and it doesn't do any damage either


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## Drago (6 Sep 2018)

Degrease that frame, then soak the bejesus out of everything with italic acid.


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## EltonFrog (6 Sep 2018)

Drago said:


> Degrease that frame, then soak the bejesus out of everything with italic acid.



Do you mean _oxalic _acid?

Soak all the other parts presumably, not the frame.


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## midlife (6 Sep 2018)

Do you need to take the fixed cup out of the BB?


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## Oldfentiger (6 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> It works on all the one's i have struggled to undo due to being rusted etc etc in place and it doesn't do any damage either


The penny has just dropped 
With the nut inside the B.B. and using a socket to tighten it, the B.B. cup will unscrew.
Apologies for the muppetry.


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## Drago (6 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Do you mean _oxalic _acid?
> 
> Soak all the other parts presumably, not the frame.



Indeed I Do!! Android auto correct strikes again


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## Hugh Manatee (6 Sep 2018)

Drago said:


> Indeed I Do!! Android auto correct strikes again



I assumed you have to lean forwards whilst applying the stuff.


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## EltonFrog (6 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Do you need to take the fixed cup out of the BB?



Well that what I’m trying to work out. How do you get the bearings back in with the cup in?


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## midlife (6 Sep 2018)

Buy some caged bearings from weldtite . Otherwise use grease to hold them in with the frame horizontal.. Put the bearings in via the hole in the cup. Then slide the axle in. Hold axle and spin bike over, fill other cup with balls held in with grease and screw on

Or buy some caged balls from weldtite,


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## EltonFrog (6 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Buy some caged bearings from weldtite . Otherwise use grease to hold them in with the frame horizontal.. Put the bearings in via the hole in the cup. Then slide the axle in. Hold axle and spin bike over, fill other cup with balls held in with grease and screw on
> 
> Or buy some caged balls from weldtite,



Thanks for the info

I was wondering why they weren't caged when I took them out, just loose in the bb shell, I can't work out how they stayed in though, I didn't pay much attention when they came out. I wonder if there is still a bearing race on the shell.


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## midlife (6 Sep 2018)

Caged bearings were expensive so factory bikes came with loose balls lol. There's a you tube clip of a Raleigh shop floor worker filling hubs with loose balls.... I think my hands would fall off at that speed!


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## EltonFrog (6 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Caged bearings were expensive so factory bikes came with loose balls lol. There's a you tube clip of a Raleigh shop floor worker filling hubs with loose balls.... I think my hands would fall off at that speed!



Blimey!

This it @11:30?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaxRQh03BOw


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## biggs682 (6 Sep 2018)

Oldfentiger said:


> The penny has just dropped
> With the nut inside the B.B. and using a socket to tighten it, the B.B. cup will unscrew.
> Apologies for the muppetry.



When i first watched a video showing it , i thought what utter tosh .......
then went out in the garage and tried it and the rest is history


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## midlife (6 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Blimey!
> 
> This it @11:30?
> 
> ...




Sure that's the one


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## EltonFrog (7 Sep 2018)

Just spent an enjoyable couple of hours cleaning and polishing, still a bit to do though. Just worked out how to get the headset cups out!


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## EltonFrog (7 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> @CarlP either use a spanner that fits across the flats poss 9/16ths size but could be wrong , if it's rock tight then get a big nut and bolt poke the bolt through from the bottom bracket and just keep tightening the nut up and as it gets really tight it should start to unwind the bottom bracket shell , see 1966 Dawes Debonair



It is a 9/16th spanner for that, but I couldn’t get it to turn. So I’ve decided to leave it , make sure I give it a good clean and replace the bearings with new ones in a race, which, incidentally I bought from a really old fashioned bike shop in Abingdon, cheaper than online.


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## biggs682 (7 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> It is a 9/16th spanner for that, but I couldn’t get it to turn. So I’ve decided to leave it , make sure I give it a good clean and replace the bearings with new ones in a race, which, incidentally I bought from a really old fashioned bike shop in Abingdon, cheaper than online.



Its nice to hear that a "real" bike shop were price competitive


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## EltonFrog (10 Sep 2018)

As per @biggs682 suggestion I’ve been experimenting with wet wire wool and polishing on the top tube. It appears that some oh the patina is coming off.






EDIT, hmmm that phot is not as clear as I thought.


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## EltonFrog (10 Sep 2018)

Try again


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## biggs682 (10 Sep 2018)

@CarlP see it does work , ok they are not astounding .
Try rubbing some t-cut or cutting paste on the paint and then letting it go dry before trying next bit and see if that makes any difference just avoid the decals


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## EltonFrog (10 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> @CarlP see it does work , ok they are not astounding .
> Try rubbing some t-cut or cutting paste on the paint and then letting it go dry before trying next bit and see if that makes any difference just avoid the decals



Ok will do. I’m worried I’ll rub all the paint off!


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## biggs682 (10 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Ok will do. I’m worried I’ll rub all the paint off!



Try it on the underside of a tube first then and only rub gently


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## EltonFrog (11 Sep 2018)

Daft question this, cos I should have checked before I threw the old tyres away. Are they 27x 1.1/4?


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## EltonFrog (13 Sep 2018)

Handlebars have come up nicely, the rest of the chrome is soaking in Oxalic acid at the moment. 

The rest of the bike is in bits in varying states of refurb, new bearings have been bought for the BB.

I'm trying to decide what to with the frame, whether to clean and tidy and put it back together, or have it repainted. It's not worth it financially, but by gosh it would look nice if it was. 

The chrome on the wheels is in a bit of a state, not sure what to with those atm. I have a pair of spare Bontrager wheels that are bout 6 years old. can you get a 5 speed cassette, that would fit those?


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## biggs682 (13 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Daft question this, cos I should have checked before I threw the old tyres away. Are they 27x 1.1/4?


Yes should be and go to sjs https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres/gumwall-schwalbe-hs159-tyre-27-x-1-14-inch-2832630/ these are good i think and i have used quite a few pr's of them .

If your bontrager wheels are the newer style hub then afraid not unless you buy individual single speed cogs and then space them out to suit , but be careful as i wouldn't expect them to fit in the rear drop outs very easily .

I would forget the chromed steel rims and have a look at these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-x-1-1...224371&hash=item3aab01a6e8:g:wyUAAOSwiYlaAnoN


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## EltonFrog (13 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Yes should be and go to sjs https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres/gumwall-schwalbe-hs159-tyre-27-x-1-14-inch-2832630/ these are good i think and i have used quite a few pr's of them .
> 
> If your bontrager wheels are the newer style hub then afraid not unless you buy individual single speed cogs and then space them out to suit , but be careful as i wouldn't expect them to fit in the rear drop outs very easily .
> 
> I would forget the chromed steel rims and have a look at these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-x-1-1...224371&hash=item3aab01a6e8:g:wyUAAOSwiYlaAnoN



Thanks for the reply and info. The wheels look interesting, and buying those would save me a lot of faffing about.


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## EltonFrog (13 Sep 2018)

I’ve bitten the bullet, bought the wheels and tyres.


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## uphillstruggler (13 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> I’ve bitten the bullet, bought the wheels and tyres.



good commitment


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## biggs682 (13 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Thanks for the reply and info. The wheels look interesting, and buying those would save me a lot of faffing about.



Very true always worth keeping an eye out for other bikes which have 27" alloys already fitted that are going cheap


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## stalagmike (13 Sep 2018)

Where did you get your oxalic acid from? eBay? How much did you get? I've been looking at getting some for a while to soak my Holdsworth but unsure how much to buy. I don't want to over do it and have bucket fulls left over.


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## midlife (13 Sep 2018)

You buy it as a powder and dissolve it in water, cheap as chips


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## stalagmike (13 Sep 2018)

Thanks @midlife . I'm aware that you dilute it from powder. I was just wondering how much powder! Maybe my worry about 'bucketfulls' being leftover was a bit misleading.


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## midlife (13 Sep 2018)

I bought a kilogram I think, it's under the sink (where everything like that ends up). I'll have a look


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## stalagmike (13 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> I bought a kilogram I think, it's under the sink (where everything like that ends up). I'll have a look


Next to the soda crystals. 

And what sort of ratio did you mix it to? From what I've read it seems the stronger the concentration then the quicker the reaction time. And did you wear respirator, gloves etc.?


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

stalagmike said:


> Thanks @midlife . I'm aware that you dilute it from powder. I was just wondering how much powder! Maybe my worry about 'bucketfulls' being leftover was a bit misleading.





stalagmike said:


> Next to the soda crystals.
> 
> And what sort of ratio did you mix it to? From what I've read it seems the stronger the concentration then the quicker the reaction time. And did you wear respirator, gloves etc.?



I bought a kilo of it in tub from eBay. I’ve used 125 grams so far in a 10 Ltd bucket. I was guessing the quantity. I will not know the results until later today. I have left the items to soak for 24 hours. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/232324440841


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## biggs682 (14 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> I bought a kilo of it in tub from eBay. I’ve used 125 grams so far in a 10 Ltd bucket. I was guessing the quantity. I will not know the results until later today. I have left the items to soak for 24 hours.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/232324440841



never tried it myself so will be interesting to see the results


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> never tried it myself so will be interesting to see the results



I’ll try and get some photos up later.


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## Illaveago (14 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> I’ve bitten the bullet, bought the wheels and tyres.


You will find that the bike will feel a lot better with alloy wheels.
This is a very interesting project. I bought one as a donor frame to use the components and then felt sorry for it.
Keep up with the good work .


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

Illaveago said:


> You will find that the bike will feel a lot better with alloy wheels.
> This is a very interesting project. I bought one as a donor frame to use the components and then felt sorry for it.
> Keep up with the good work .


 Probably, but I only rode it 1/4 mile, with split tyres, so I won't notice.


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

Just got all the stuff out of the bucket and rinsed it off 

The oxalic acid has done quite a good job, but perhaps I should’ve degreased everything first.

The axel on the pedals was very rusty, as was the front mech and the lamp holder. Much better now though. Everything needs a good polish.


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

Chainring and pedal now polished, looking much better. 






Any idea how to get the pedal off?


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## midlife (14 Sep 2018)

Pedal spanner and brute force  . That crank has a normal thread, the left crank has a left hand thread....


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Pedal spanner and brute force  . That crank has a normal thread, the left crank has a left hand thread....



Thanks. What i meant was how do I get the pedal off the spindle? Are there bearings in there, can they be replaced?


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## midlife (14 Sep 2018)

Ah! Its one of those funny locking washers I think.....Hate them. If they dont feel better after a good flush with oil I'd think about replacements.

Maybe someone else has had better luck than me with them


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Ah! Its one of those funny locking washers I think.....Hate them. If they dont feel better after a good flush with oil I'd think about replacements.
> 
> Maybe someone else has had better luck than me with them



Yes, that’s them. Maybe I’ll bung one heavy oil in there.


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## stalagmike (14 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Chainring and pedal now polished, looking much better.
> 
> View attachment 429972
> 
> ...



That's looking good. Are you dipping the frame in the oxalic too?


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## midlife (14 Sep 2018)

Oxalic acid and paint are a bit hit and miss.


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## Illaveago (14 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Ah! Its one of those funny locking washers I think.....Hate them. If they dont feel better after a good flush with oil I'd think about replacements.
> 
> Maybe someone else has had better luck than me with them


Mine fell off when I was going round a roundabout !


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## EltonFrog (14 Sep 2018)

stalagmike said:


> That's looking good. Are you dipping the frame in the oxalic too?



No, the frame is done, and cleaned with fine wire wool and polish, just waiting for me to finish cleaning the bits and put them back on. 

I have never taken a bike fully apart before and put it back together, it's a learning curve, I've done bits of different bikes, but no a whole one.


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## EltonFrog (15 Sep 2018)

New wheels have arrived!


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## stalagmike (15 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> No, the frame is done, and cleaned with fine wire wool and polish, just waiting for me to finish cleaning the bits and put them back on.
> 
> I have never taken a bike fully apart before and put it back together, it's a learning curve, I've done bits of different bikes, but no a whole one.



Same here. I've taken all the bits off mine except for the getting the BB out. So I'm nearly ready to get started on cleaning up the frame. I'm just hoping that when the time comes to put it all back together I can remember where it all goes!


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## EltonFrog (17 Sep 2018)

Woop! Gum wall tyres have arrived.


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## biggs682 (17 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Woop! Gum wall tyres have arrived.



Be warned they attract dirt and grime like nobody's business


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## EltonFrog (17 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Be warned they attract dirt and grime like nobody's business



Warning noted, I don't suppose I'll be riding it much, but thanks for telling me.


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## EltonFrog (23 Sep 2018)

Update:

Took apart and cleaned and greased the rear derailleur today, another first for me, I usually take things apart and end up with a piece left over, but not today, though I did have to mess about a bit taking the thing apart and trying again, as I got things in the wrong order and / or upside down. Fiddly little feckers ain't they?












40 odd years of cack.






bits n pieces












nice n clean, say's made in France on middle bit.


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## midlife (23 Sep 2018)

Nice work . It's a rebadged French Huret mech


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## EltonFrog (23 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Nice work . It's a rebadged French Huret mech



I thought it might be, the hanger has Huret on it.


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## EltonFrog (23 Sep 2018)

Did a bit more cleaning and polishing. 






















I really would like to get that clip off somehow. 






Bottle cage brackets.


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## Illaveago (24 Sep 2018)

You will have to prise the clip off with a flat bladed screwdriver or something similar. The clip has three raised prongs which allow the clip to be pressed on but hard to remove. You may have to replace the clip as it may break up on removal. If you can't find a replacement clip an " E" shaped clip could be used as a replacement to slide into the groove machined into the spindle.


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## EltonFrog (24 Sep 2018)

Illaveago said:


> You will have to prise the clip off with a flat bladed screwdriver or something similar. The clip has three raised prongs which allow the clip to be pressed on but hard to remove. You may have to replace the clip as it may break up on removal. If you can't find a replacement clip an " E" shaped clip could be used as a replacement to slide into the groove machined into the spindle.



Thanks, what are those clips called?


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## Illaveago (24 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> Thanks, what are those clips called?


I think they used to be called" Spire Speed Fasteners " back in the 70's, the "E " clips are semi circular and look like a letter E , I think Halfords sell boxes of them but that would be expensive, it may give you an idea of what they are called though. There's no harm in looking!


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## EltonFrog (27 Sep 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Yes should be and go to sjs https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres/gumwall-schwalbe-hs159-tyre-27-x-1-14-inch-2832630/ these are good i think and i have used quite a few pr's of them .
> 
> If your bontrager wheels are the newer style hub then afraid not unless you buy individual single speed cogs and then space them out to suit , but be careful as i wouldn't expect them to fit in the rear drop outs very easily .
> 
> I would forget the chromed steel rims and have a look at these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-x-1-1...224371&hash=item3aab01a6e8:g:wyUAAOSwiYlaAnoN



@biggs682 or @midlife any idea what the wheel nut size is on these wheels? They came with normal nuts but I want to get some dome nuts.


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## biggs682 (27 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> @biggs682 or @midlife any idea what the wheel nut size is on these wheels? They came with normal nuts but I want to get some dome nuts.



From memory rear 3/8 ths and fr could be 5/16 ths but are the new the same ?


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## midlife (27 Sep 2018)

Yup, 5/16 and 3/8 stayed the same for years so they will fit into dropouts. Which wheels again?


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## EltonFrog (27 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Yup, 5/16 and 3/8 stayed the same for years so they will fit into dropouts. Which wheels again?



These.


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## midlife (27 Sep 2018)

Looks the business, if you are going for fancy domed nuts you might have to shorten the axles a bit?


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## EltonFrog (27 Sep 2018)

midlife said:


> Looks the business, if you are going for fancy domed nuts you might have to shorten the axles a bit?



Ah right! Never thought of that . Bugger. 

Would adding washers work or is that a shite idea?


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## EltonFrog (28 Sep 2018)

A little bit more before and after action for you.






Before






After











Front brake was pretty much like the rear brake on the right.











How they were on the bike


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## Illaveago (28 Sep 2018)

CarlP said:


> A little bit more before and after action for you.
> 
> View attachment 431982
> 
> ...


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## EltonFrog (28 Sep 2018)

Hmm, I’ll consider that, trying to keep the costs down.


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## EltonFrog (1 Oct 2018)

Rear brake done now, not many parts to clean now, before I put the bike back together. 






















The Raleigh/ Weinmann badge had come lose and snapped at some point, I’ve super glued it back on .


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## stalagmike (1 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> A little bit more before and after action for you.
> 
> View attachment 431982
> 
> ...


What did you use to clean those hoods? They've come up really well.


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## EltonFrog (1 Oct 2018)

stalagmike said:


> What did you use to clean those hoods? They've come up really well.



Very hot soapy water to clean it all and DD7 rubbed in and left over night and more soapy water. Left to dry in the airing cupboard.


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## davidphilips (1 Oct 2018)

stalagmike said:


> What did you use to clean those hoods? They've come up really well.



Just as a mater of interest MR Mussel oven cleaner will take years of grime of hoods in seconds, never left it on just put it on and washed it of right away. 

looking forward to the build up of the BSA.


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## EltonFrog (1 Oct 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Just as a mater of interest MR Mussel oven cleaner will take years of grime of hoods in seconds, never left it on just put it on and washed it of right away.
> 
> looking forward to the build up of the BSA.



I wish I’d thought of that.


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## EltonFrog (3 Oct 2018)

Gawd! what bloody faff this was, the front derailleur, easy enough to take apart and clean, but two and a half hours to put it back together, getting it wrong on the way, losing a screw, looking outside for it then realising the screw was in the thing, just in the wrong place. I am never never ever going to take one of those apart ever again. 










































There is a spring underneath the right hand top screw, that flicks the arm to left and up, trying to get that down and to stay while refitting the screw took some Heath Robinson style clamping, then i put the wrong feckin screw in and had to start again. Gah! knowing my bloody luck the sodding thing won't work now.


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## stalagmike (3 Oct 2018)

You are doing a great job of cleaning these bits up. It's going to shine when it's all back together. So it will look good even if it doesn't work


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## EltonFrog (3 Oct 2018)

stalagmike said:


> You are doing a great job of cleaning these bits up. It's going to shine when it's all back together. So it will look good even if it doesn't work


Lol


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## EltonFrog (5 Oct 2018)

And yet another update.

Cleaned up the down tube shifters and some other bits n pieces today, including the seat clamp for the brooks saddle which was brown with rust, another 3 hours work, still, its a nice day set up the bench outside and did whilst listening to the iPlayer radio.






Before.










After. Took them apart cleaned them up as best I could.





















Seat clamp, that was in a right 2 n 8.











I've just realised that I think I've threaded that screw in upside down.

Only about half dozen small thing to clean up now before I start to put it all back together.


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## davidphilips (6 Oct 2018)

Thats a lot of time and work, full credit to you and i hope the BSA goes great for you, its some thing you will never forget.

PS Please dont lend it to any one or use it in the rain.


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## EltonFrog (6 Oct 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Thats a lot of time and work, full credit to you and i hope the BSA goes great for you, its some thing you will never forget.



Thanks it has been a lot of work so far, it’s an interesting experience, I’m not naturally mechanically minded, but because the bike was free I don’t really have any to lose, I’m learning a lot. 



> PS Please dont lend it to any one or use it in the rain.



Fair enough, I’m not evem sure if it’s the right size for me! I’ve measured it, the sums add up, but looking at if it seems small. We shall see. There’s a back story to this bike which I’ll write about briefly when it’s finished.


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## EltonFrog (11 Oct 2018)

I’ve just spent a very pleasant hour or so in the garage cleaning the last bits and pieces of chrome, nuts, bolts and odds and sods. Nothing left now but to put everything back on the bike. This will be interesting, cos I’m not sure if I can remember where all the bits go. 

I’m not sure if anyone is that interested in this project, but it’s a useful record for me. I’ll be on holiday for a few days next week so it will be a while before it’s complete.


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## roadrash (11 Oct 2018)

I am interested


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## stalagmike (11 Oct 2018)

I'm interested. I too am worried that when I go to put my Holdsworth back together I won't remember where it all goes but that's part of the learning curve I guess. I'm only half way through my first rebuild and I'm already trying to persuade the Mrs that she really needs a nice steel framed mixte to complement her Giant hybrid.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> I’m not sure if anyone is that interested in this project.



I'm always interested in these sort of topics. A bike doesn't have to be fancy and exotic to make it worth spending time rescuing and sorting out. It just needs to be made of steel and of classic design, even if it was a cheapo new, was given FOC, or dragged out of someone's bin. Whilst we'd all like to own a collection of pristine, one-owner machines with a history from new, the reality is most old bikes of the type we like on here have had a hard life and been through the hands of at least one owner who didn't take as much care of them as they should. That gives us more of a challenge, and I find it very informative reading up on how someone else has stripped and de-rusted their project as I might learn something useful to copy when doing my own ones.


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

Now the fun starts, just put the loose bearing square taper spindle back in with new cage bearings and loads of grease. 

I think it’s the correct way round.






No drive side






Drive side.


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

I’m struggling with the headset now, I have a washer that I don’t know where it goes.

I’m going to take it down the lbs in a minute, hopefully they’ll tell me where to put it, I need some bearings for it anyway.

EDIT: It seems I had the foresight to photograph bits of the headset when I was taking it apart, I found where the washer goes.


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

More progress this afternoon, I got some bearings and bits n bobs from the lbs, and put the fork back on, had a bit of a faff with the handle bar stem, I didn’t know there was some kind of nut device EDIT (Expander plug according to Zinn & and the Art of Bike Maintenance) that splays the stem stem out to keep the bars in place. It was only when I was poking around the head tube that I found it . Cleaned it up, greased it and now it’s installed.






I was about to put the chain ring back on, but when I offered it up, the gap between the rings and the edge of th BB looks big. @biggs682 , @SkipdiverJohn , @midlife your opinion please?


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## biggs682 (12 Oct 2018)

@CarlP turn the bottom bracket spindle round


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

biggs682 said:


> @CarlP turn the bottom bracket spindle round


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## biggs682 (12 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> View attachment 433694



Does it fit know ?


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## midlife (12 Oct 2018)

The gap sometimes looked a bit big as the same axle was often used for the 5 and 10 speed variants. The axle is asymmetric and the longer side is for the chainset side.


----------



## davidphilips (12 Oct 2018)

Measure from the centre of your down tube to the centre of the chain wheel this is the measurement that needs to be right, https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

As long as you are using the bottom bracket spindle that you removed then as long as both pedals are same distance from down tube you should be correct.

With more modern bikes as far as i remember measurement from centre of down tube to centre of chain wheels is 43.5 mm for correct chain line.

PS Yes lots are still interested in BSAs progress keep posting, ttfn.


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

davidphilips said:


> Measure from the centre of your down tube to the centre of the chain wheel this is the measurement that needs to be right, https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
> 
> As long as you are using the bottom bracket spindle that you removed then as long as both pedals are same distance from down tube you should be correct.
> 
> ...



That makes sense, thank you. It is the same spindle, and i'm sure its the right way round it's just the gap looked big. 



biggs682 said:


> Does it fit know ?



yes, thanks, though I've not put the cotter pin in yet, I've run out of time to today.


----------



## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

I’ve been a bit extravagant, these came in the post today.


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## EltonFrog (12 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> The gap sometimes looked a bit big as the same axle was often used for the 5 and 10 speed variants. The axle is asymmetric and the longer side is for the chainset side.



Brilliant, thank you.


----------



## biggs682 (12 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> The gap sometimes looked a bit big as the same axle was often used for the 5 and 10 speed variants. The axle is asymmetric and the longer side is for the chainset side.



Sure I have seen a few fitted the other way round


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## simon the viking (12 Oct 2018)

looking good... just read all 7 pages in one sitting... I love a good classic restoration thread. Can't wait to see it finished!


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## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

HELP! Any idea why I can't get the rear wheel into to the drop outs? Have I bought the wrong wheel? Do those inner nut have to come off? do I need to pull apart the chain stay a bit? HELP!


----------



## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

Measure the distance between the frame dropouts, I guess it's 120mm.if the hub is new it might be 130 mm

How to measure is on this famous Web page 

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html


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## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> Measure the distance between the frame dropouts, I guess it's 120mm.if the hub is new it might be 130 mm
> 
> How to measure is on this famous Web page
> 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html




You're correct! Bol and may i add for good measure Locks! The drop outs are 120mm and the wheel is 130mm, but the front wheel and drop outs are 100. Feck Feck Fecckity feck feck. It was all going so well today.

EDIT: WOULD YOU RECOMMEND SPREADING THE FRAME AS PER THE LINK? 


AND, I can not find for the life of me my brake levers, I spent hours cleaning them up and now I can't find the feckers! I have two plastic boxes, one for stuff that needs cleaning the blue one and the red one for stuff that's clean and the levers are not in either. Where the blumen' blast feck are they! grrrr.


----------



## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

First thing I would look at is for any spacers on the axle that can be removed. If so you might be able to just open the frame a bit to get the wheel in rather than actually spreading the frame.


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## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> First thing I would look at is for any spacers on the axle that can be removed. If so you might be able to just open the frame a bit to get the wheel in rather than actually spreading the frame.




There are no spacers as such, unless the two nuts on each side ( the darker one near the cog) are spacers?


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## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

There might be some spacers between the dark nuts and the cones. Is the freewheel on tight or can you remove it. If removing spacers you have to remove from both sides so the wheel stays in the middle of the frame.


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## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> There might be some spacers between the dark nuts and the cones. Is the freewheel on tight or can you remove it. If removing spacers you have to remove from both sides so the wheel stays in the middle of the frame.




OK, I'l have a look.


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## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

If not I'm sure companies like Weldtite do replacement solid axles, maybe they do a 120mm one? Usually about a fiver.


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## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

On closer inspection it looks like the real difference is about 5/6 mm, I maybe able to with a neighbour pull apart the the chain stays and fit the wheel. I'll give that some thought. In the meantime I have emailed the supplier of the wheel to see if they will swap it with one the correct size. Can't do much more today, I'm waiting for a replacement pin for my chain tool so I'cant put the chain on yet, plus there other jobs to keep me going for now.


----------



## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> If not I'm sure companies like Weldtite do replacement solid axles, maybe they do a 120mm one? Usually about a fiver.




Panic Over. The Fragrant Mrs P has just come home and pulled the stays apart whilst I offered up the wheel, it fits!

Many thanks for your help and advice, I was panicking I think. I really do not have any idea about what I am doing, it's all trial and error. 

Oh, and I have found the brake levers... they were in the airing cupboard.


----------



## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

Right then, wheels notwithstanding, I've made a bit of progress today, started putting things back on the frame.






Short mudguards as supplied by @walkman-man everything else so far as original on the bike, except new cotter pins on the cranks and brake blocks.

View attachment 433887

















One of the things I’ve learned today is that you can put a cotter pin in the wrong way round.


----------



## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

All coming together  if I was being picky I'd say the saddle clamp is the wrong way round.


----------



## simon the viking (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> All coming together  if I was being picky I'd say the saddle clamp is the wrong way round.
> 
> View attachment 433898



Oh good spot sir!


----------



## midlife (13 Oct 2018)

simon the viking said:


> Oh good spot sir!



If I had a pound for each saddle clamp I have messed with... 

Back in the day it was the done thing to buy the biggest bike you could for your child so they would grow into it. Lol. You can flip the saddle clamp around and also upside down so the saddle goes as low and as far forward as possible. Then screw wooden blocks to the pedals


----------



## EltonFrog (13 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> All coming together  if I was being picky I'd say the saddle clamp is the wrong way round.
> 
> View attachment 433898



Yep, you’re quite right, thanks.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (13 Oct 2018)

Those of us who insist on riding steel bikes don't need to worry about springing open a frame by a quarter of an inch to make a wheel slot in. It's the carbon fibre and aluminium devotees whose frames may crack or work-harden who are going to have a problem if replacement bits aren't an exact fit.


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## EltonFrog (15 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> There are no spacers as such, unless the two nuts on each side ( the darker one near the cog) are spacers?
> 
> View attachment 433863





midlife said:


> There might be some spacers between the dark nuts and the cones. Is the freewheel on tight or can you remove it. If removing spacers you have to remove from both sides so the wheel stays in the middle of the frame.





CarlP said:


> OK, I'l have a look.





midlife said:


> If not I'm sure companies like Weldtite do replacement solid axles, maybe they do a 120mm one? Usually about a fiver.





CarlP said:


> Panic Over. The Fragrant Mrs P has just come home and pulled the stays apart whilst I offered up the wheel, it fits!
> 
> Many thanks for your help and advice, I was panicking I think. I really do not have any idea about what I am doing, it's all trial and error.
> 
> Oh, and I have found the brake levers... they were in the airing cupboard.



Before I posted with the wheel problem, I had contacted the company I bought the wheels from; Baldwin Cycles; an eBay seller, they are going to send me some thinner nuts FOC, that should sort out the the problem with out the faff of resetting the rear fork.


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## simon the viking (15 Oct 2018)

Is this a keeper then @CarlP are you planning on riding it?


----------



## EltonFrog (15 Oct 2018)

simon the viking said:


> Is this a keeper then @CarlP are you planning on riding it?



I hope so, but it’s mainly an exercise in seeing if I can dismantle and refurbish a bike from scratch.


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## carpenter (17 Oct 2018)

Brilliant work - and some very useful info for newbies in one thread. Any chance of making this thread a "sticky"


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## EltonFrog (17 Oct 2018)

carpenter said:


> Brilliant work - and some very useful info for newbies in one thread. Any chance of making this thread a "sticky"


T’aint finished yet! But I’m on holiday at the moment so it’ll be another couple of weeks.

I need to find some period style bar tape, my search thus far has been unfruitful.


----------



## midlife (17 Oct 2018)

The plastic stuff it probably came with was shocking! Maybe use Tressostar / Tressorex cloth tape?


----------



## EltonFrog (17 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> The plastic stuff it probably came with was shocking! Maybe use Tressostar / Tressorex cloth tape?



It did look a bit naff, I’ll investigate your suggestion. Thanks once again.


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## EltonFrog (17 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> It did look a bit naff, I’ll investigate your suggestion. Thanks once again.



That looks like it’ll do nicely.


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## EltonFrog (25 Oct 2018)

I’ve been on holiday,time for an update.

The bar tape has arrive, and so have the replacement nuts for the rear wheel.

I’ve fitted the tubes, tyres and wheels. It looks like a bike now. Oh, and I have to turn the seat clamp round! Bugger I’d forgotten about that.












Cables, chain, and bits bobs to fit. Can’t do the chain of yet because the pin in my chain tool snapped, so I have to wait for a replacement.

Lifted the bike off the stand for photos, jeeeeeezus it’s a heavy bugger.

The pedals were to much of a faff to take apart, so as @midlife suggested up thread I poured a load of oil down the spindle, the spin like a silky smooth smoothie thing.

I sat on it earlier and it isn’t too small so I’ll keep the bike I think.

EDIT: the seat clamp was annoying me so I've just sorted that out.


----------



## southcoast (25 Oct 2018)

Looking good  What brake pads are they?


----------



## roadrash (25 Oct 2018)

brilliant job, looks lovely...10/10 ,...hope you enjoy riding it


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## EltonFrog (25 Oct 2018)

southcoast said:


> Looking good  What brake pads are they?



I don’t know the brand, just some blocks in shoes the lbs supplied.


----------



## biggs682 (25 Oct 2018)

Looks good


----------



## stalagmike (25 Oct 2018)

Nice


----------



## simon the viking (25 Oct 2018)

and


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## simon the viking (25 Oct 2018)

If I saw that at a café stop... I'd admire it more than anything modern......


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## EltonFrog (25 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> brilliant job, looks lovely...10/10 ,...hope you enjoy riding it





biggs682 said:


> Looks good





simon the viking said:


> and





simon the viking said:


> If I saw that at a café stop... I'd admire it more than anything modern......


Thanks, it ain’t finished yet, I’ve got the cables and chain to sort out yet, and front mechs are a dark art as far as I’m concerned.


----------



## GM (25 Oct 2018)

Really enjoyed reading this thread Carl, it's a stunning looking bike. I had a BSA Tour de France a blue one back in the 80's, like a fool I sold it for £100 about 20 years ago, wish I still had it. I'll try to find some photos to post up.


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## Illaveago (26 Oct 2018)

I have just caught up with your progress and you have done really well in restoring your BSA. Have you gone back and looked at your first post to see what you have achieved? You should feel proud of your effort and should get a lot of admiring glances from people when you are seen riding it.
Have you kept the old wheels as you could salvage the large flange hubs? A lot of us old cyclist's go weak at the knees when seeing them!
Well done on a good job!


----------



## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I have just caught up with your progress and you have done really well in restoring your BSA. Have you gone back and looked at your first post to see what you have achieved? You should feel proud of your effort and should get a lot of admiring glances from people when you are seen riding it.
> Have you kept the old wheels as you could salvage the large flange hubs? A lot of us old cyclist's go weak at the knees when seeing them!
> Well done on a good job!



Thanks, I appreciate the comments. I have looked the old posts it’s a hell of a lot different now. 

I sold the old wheels on eBay a couple of weeks ago. I realised while on holiday last week that that was probably a mistake and I should have kept the old hubs and put new rims on, I regret that now but what’s done is done. I’m pleased with the progress so far. 

I’m to try and get all the cables n today. The chain will have to wait until next week.


----------



## Illaveago (26 Oct 2018)

I have an orange TdF with black panels which I bought as a donor frame to use the components to build another bike. It was after I had transferred the parts over that I started to feel sorry for it and set about rebuilding it. I have only ridden it a short distance but I enjoyed it.


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## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I have an orange TdF with black panels which I bought as a donor frame to use the components to build another bike. It was after I had transferred the parts over that I started to feel sorry for it and set about rebuilding it. I have only ridden it a short distance but I enjoyed it.



I’ve seen that on another thread, but not the complete bike. Would you put a photo of yours up please?


----------



## Oldfentiger (26 Oct 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I have just caught up with your progress and you have done really well in restoring your BSA. Have you gone back and looked at your first post to see what you have achieved? You should feel proud of your effort and should get a lot of admiring glances from people when you are seen riding it.
> Have you kept the old wheels as you could salvage the large flange hubs? A lot of us old cyclist's go weak at the knees when seeing them!
> Well done on a good job!


Yes, we’ll done on the rebuild. Looking great already.
I sort of got the bug for it after my first rebuild, now I have around a dozen 
Admiring glances - I’be had people riding next to me asking about the bike. Emerge from a cafe to find small groups clustered around my bike. Positive comments from all sorts of people as I ride by.
None of that has happened when riding my much more expensive modern bikes.
There’s a joy to be had from riding an old classic which you’ve brought back to life.
Better still, ride it at the VeloRetro event at Ulverston next summer with a bunch of other old farts like me. Leave your Lycra at home 

Edit:
There’s a program on BBC2 tonight called The Lakes. Based on some geezer riding a penny farthing at the vintage event.


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## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

Oldfentiger said:


> There’s a program on BBC2 tonight called The Lakes. Based on some geezer riding a penny farthing at the vintage event.



I’ll set the recorder up for that, cheers.


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## Illaveago (26 Oct 2018)

Sorry it took a while to find my pictures. As it was when I picked it up and what it looks like at the moment.


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## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

Illaveago said:


> Sorry it took a while to find my pictures. As it was when I picked it up and what it looks like at the moment.
> View attachment 435470



How cool is that? Slightly different head tube, do you know what year your bike is?

Edit: I see you changed the chain ring.


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## Illaveago (26 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> How cool is that? Slightly different head tube, do you know what year your bike is?
> 
> Edit: I see you changed the chain ring.


I'm not sure of the date at the moment. They seem to have done a few variations on that model. Mine has BSA in letters on the head tube whereas some have the old metal rifle badge. The handlebars and stem are aluminium while some others are chromed steel. I left the outer chrome ring off of the chainring as I'm not too keen on them. The brake levers have been replaced with a pair of Shimano ones for the time being, but were originally Weinmann with suicide levers, which I don't find are too bad.


----------



## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

Today I fitted the brake and gear cables and tarted up the bottle holder and clamps.

The cable fitting was easier that I anticipated but as I expected it didn't go without a bit of faffage. The cable stops would not go through the gap it was supposed to in the levers, so I had to take the levers off and thread them through at the back. Didn't take long but just a bit of a faff.






Cable job done, brakes work, derailleurs shift.














In between rain showers I cleaned up the wire bottle cage. That was thick with rust and peeling chrome before I put it in the oxalic acid a few weeks ago, I finished off cleaning it and gave it a few coats of "chrome" paint which I had lying around in a rattle can from a few years ago. I was going to chuck it but it may be ok.
















Before






After, I put a bit of paint on the clips too.


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## Illaveago (26 Oct 2018)

It's looking nice.


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## roadrash (26 Oct 2018)

no need to chuck the bottle cage, it has a new lease of life now, and bikes looking good


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## EltonFrog (26 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> no need to chuck the bottle cage, it has a new lease of life now, and bikes looking good


Just the chain, bar tape, and bottle cage to do now, probably Monday. The Fragrant MrsP picked up the pins for chain tool today, but I won’t have time this weekend.


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## Illaveago (27 Oct 2018)

midlife said:


> Oxalic acid and paint are a bit hit and miss.


I can remember that oxalic acid was used to remove industrial fallout from new car paintwork in the 70's. The affected areas were covered in newspapers and then the acid was poured onto them until they were soaking and then left for a while. After some time the newspapers were removed, the cars were then washed off and polished.


----------



## simon the viking (27 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> Just the chain, bar tape, and bottle cage to do now, probably Monday. The Fragrant MrsP picked up the pins for chain tool today, but I won’t have time this weekend.


Your wife goes into your LBS... Are you sure thats safe?


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## Illaveago (27 Oct 2018)

WN8 is the frame number so October 1978 is the date of manufacture.


----------



## EltonFrog (27 Oct 2018)

Illaveago said:


> WN8 is the frame number so October 1978 is the date of manufacture.



Mine is October 1976


----------



## EltonFrog (27 Oct 2018)

simon the viking said:


> Your wife goes into your LBS... Are you sure thats safe?



It’s more likely that she would come out with a new bike than me, she has an account in that shop.


----------



## EltonFrog (29 Oct 2018)

I'm 'aving a right 'mare with the rear derailleur, chain's on, right length, front mech working fine ( which is a blumen miracle for me) but suminks up with the way I've got this set up. Pull the lever and the chain moves, let go of the lever chain goes back to the small ring. I WILL GET THIS SORTED. Off to the tube of you. Laters.


----------



## EltonFrog (29 Oct 2018)

I am a berk! They're friction shifters! the clue is in the name, I needed to tighten the shifter to stop it returning! D'uh!

It works! Hurrah and Huzzah!

EDIT: I'm having a cuppa to celebrate.


----------



## stalagmike (29 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> I am a berk! They're friction shifters! the clue is in the name, I needed to tighten the shifter to stop it returning! D'uh!
> 
> It works! Hurrah and Huzzah!
> 
> EDIT: I'm having a cuppa to celebrate.


This is good to know. I know when i eventually get round to building mine back up that I'll come across all sorts of troubles like this one.


----------



## EltonFrog (29 Oct 2018)

stalagmike said:


> This is good to know. I know when i eventually get round to building mine back up that I'll come across all sorts of troubles like this one.



Are you referring to that nice Holdsworth from the tip?


----------



## roadrash (29 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> I am a berk! They're friction shifters! the clue is in the name, I needed to tighten the shifter to stop it returning! D'uh!
> 
> It works! Hurrah and Huzzah!
> 
> EDIT: I'm having a cuppa to celebrate.



and now you know something that you didn't earlier , that makes you the opposite of a berk, no one knows until they learn


----------



## stalagmike (29 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> Are you referring to that nice Holdsworth from the tip?


Yep. It's slow progress for me. Two kids under 8 mean that I don't get much time for doing the work. I'm getting good at buying all sorts of potions and lotions for the paintwork online, but the actual restoration job has kind of stalled!


----------



## roadrash (29 Oct 2018)

enjoy their childhood while you can would be my tip , the holdsworth will still be there later.


----------



## EltonFrog (29 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> and now you know something that you didn't earlier , that makes you the opposite of a berk, no one knows until they learn



True dat.


----------



## EltonFrog (30 Oct 2018)

*It's finished!* ​This is what I started with. 







This is what I was trying to achieve, (sort of).






This is what I ended up with.


----------



## EltonFrog (30 Oct 2018)

I mentioned up thread that there was a back story to this bike, if you're interested read on.

The bike was given to me by my neighbour 2 doors up, you may recall for those who were here a couple of years ago that I found her husband lying on the floor after a massive heart attack, another neighbour and me tried but failed to resuscitate him.

18 months or so later, I happened to be round the house talking to the widow, trying to borrow something when I noticed the bike in the garage, she told me it was her husbands and he had had it from new, to go to work on, and used it for quite a while. Anyway she said she was going to take it down the dump and said I could have it if I wanted it.

Anyone else's bike I probably wouldn't have spent so much time and money on it.

Anyway it was a really interesting project, a new experience for me, ( I did do the Dawes Kingpin, but I cheated a bit 'cos. the BB and the headset were done for me). I made a few mistakes on the way, but I got through them, the one mistake I made which I regret is selling the original wheels, I think I should have kept the hubs, refurbished them and had new rims put on.

I thoroughly enjoyed doing it, and I'm sort of sorry it's finished.


----------



## biggs682 (30 Oct 2018)

@CarlP it's been an interesting thread to keep an eye on and well done in what you have achieved , how far have you actually ridden the bike so far ?
As i am sure you will enjoy it 
Keep us posted on it's progress over the miles


----------



## EltonFrog (30 Oct 2018)

biggs682 said:


> @CarlP it's been an interesting thread to keep an eye on and well done in what you have achieved , how far have you actually ridden the bike so far ?
> As i am sure you will enjoy it
> Keep us posted on it's progress over the miles



Thanks Martin

I did ride it yesterday before the bar tape went on, to test the brakes and gears, just down the street and back, I will take it on a proper ride when the ground is dry and the sun is out. 

Thanks to you and all the others with the help and advice you gave.


----------



## biggs682 (30 Oct 2018)

@CarlP just enjoy it for what it is and sod the rest of them


----------



## roadrash (30 Oct 2018)

Another bike saved from the skip , and with a story to tell, bike looks brilliant, I know what you mean when you say your sort of sorry its finished, so...…….. whats next


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Oct 2018)

Nice job you've done there, but I wouldn't dare to have light coloured bar tape on any bike of mine. It wouldn't stay white for very long!


----------



## EltonFrog (30 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Nice job you've done there, but I wouldn't dare to have light coloured bar tape on any bike of mine. It wouldn't stay white for very long!



I agree, but the aim was to make it look as original as possible. That done, if I keep the bike ( likely) then I’ll change it, that tape was cheap as chips.


----------



## EltonFrog (30 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> Another bike saved from the skip , and with a story to tell, bike looks brilliant, I know what you mean when you say your sort of sorry its finished, so...…….. whats next



I don’t know what I’d do next, I’d like to another one, but it needs to be different, I’ll wait and see what turns up.


----------



## midlife (30 Oct 2018)

Smashing


----------



## stalagmike (30 Oct 2018)

Great job and a great story too.


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Oct 2018)

I think half the fun of old stuff, if you trawl places like wheelie bins and skips and the bargain basement end of eBay, is the unpredictability of what may turn up. A lot is modern BSO dross, that might yield the odd useful spare part if you are lucky, but now and again some quite nice stuff can turn up either FOC, or for not a lot of money on the 'Bay. Although I do like a nice Reynolds frame, I'm not a bike snob and am quite happy to fix up and ride low-end bikes so long as the quality is one level up from a BSO. Most of those old hi-tensile framed badge-engineered Raleigh family bikes are currently pretty unloved and low value, yet they make good rides and are tough and dependable. It's nice to see people saving and riding the low end mass-market models, not just the racing exotica. They all have their place in history, and most of us probably started out on low end bikes especially as youngsters. My old Raleigh Arena was definitely nothing fancy, but I still had a lot of fun riding it over many hundreds of miles.


----------



## Kempstonian (31 Oct 2018)

I've just read this whole thread and I'm really impressed with the job you've done Carl! Looks like a new bike now!

The thread will provide inspiration for anyone else who fancies having a go at a restoration. I picked up some useful info myself and its got me wondering whether to rstore this old Townsend bike I've acquired. The only thing stopping me is that its too big for me to ride and I might be better off finding a smaller bike instead.


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Oct 2018)

Kempstonian said:


> I've just read this whole thread and I'm really impressed with the job you've done Carl! Looks like a new bike now!
> 
> The thread will provide inspiration for anyone else who fancies having a go at a restoration. I picked up some useful info myself and its got me wondering whether to rstore this old Townsend bike I've acquired. The only thing stopping me is that its too big for me to ride and I might be better off finding a smaller bike instead.



Thanks for the nice comments.


----------



## Tenacious Sloth (31 Oct 2018)

Nice job. I _do_ like an orange bike.


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Oct 2018)

Folks may (or may not) be interested in how much I spent on this. 

From the Bay of E.

Oxalic Acid £7.95 . 
Liberon Fine Wire Wool £1.99 
Tyres £17.27
Wheels £54.99
Raleigh Steel Bicycle Pump £7.84
Checkered Water Bottle £3.59

From CC member. 
Short Steel Mudguards £15.00

From Vintage Velo. 
Bar Tape. £7.95

From LBS
Chain, cables, cable covers, cotter pins, bearings, brake blocks, etc £50.00 (ish, can’t remember exactly)

Other items. In stock. 

I sold the Pletscher rack and the wheels for £25.00. 

Time: hours and hours! 

Value for money? I had a great time and learned a lot. I really enjoyed the project.


----------



## roadrash (31 Oct 2018)

I quite fancy the idea of restoring an English three speed roadster, not got around to doing anything about the idea yet but I fancy it


----------



## EltonFrog (31 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> I quite fancy the idea of restoring an English three speed roadster, not got around to doing anything about the idea yet but I fancy it



Do you mean the sort of Hercules type bike that @biggs682 is playing with atm? Having read that thread I’ve got a hankering for something like that too.


----------



## biggs682 (31 Oct 2018)

roadrash said:


> I quite fancy the idea of restoring an English three speed roadster, not got around to doing anything about the idea yet but I fancy it





CarlP said:


> Do you mean the sort of Hercules type bike that @biggs682 is playing with atm? Having read that thread I’ve got a hankering for something like that too.



I have wanted an original 3 speed roadster for ages so when the Hercules was spotted it was a no brainer , i have been offered a smaller tidy Vindec but can't justify another one


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## roadrash (31 Oct 2018)

CarlP said:


> Do you mean the sort of Hercules type bike that @biggs682 is playing with atm? Having read that thread I’ve got a hankering for something like that too.



that's the type of thing I mean yeah


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## EltonFrog (2 Nov 2018)

I went on a proper test ride today, about 6 miles to the town and back.

It feels nice and tight like a new bike, though I’ve haven’t ridden a steel road bike for about 45 years, it was strange changing gear with the shifter. 











Everything works as it should, except for the front derailleur. I am such a muppet sometimes, when I fitted the bottle cage brackets I clamped the cable to the frame. Berk! Anyway all fixed now. 

The bike rides really nicely, although it feels a bit cramped, I raised the saddle a bit and that helped. I’ll have to consider whether to keep it or not. 






Parked next to an oldish Raleigh Mixte in the shopping centre.


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## EltonFrog (4 Nov 2018)

Look what I've just found on Ebay






You might be wondering why...and how. It's a long story.


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## midlife (4 Nov 2018)

Page from a 70's catalogue? , we had Empire Stores lol


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## EltonFrog (4 Nov 2018)

midlife said:


> Page from a 70's catalogue? , we had Empire Stores lol



It's a Littlewoods catalogue, there's a seller that has scanned hundreds of Mail Order books and and sells them on the bay on dvd, this happened to be sample photo on the listing. Un-be-fecking-lievable


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## roadrash (4 Nov 2018)

@CarlP what I want to know is , what was you looking for when you found them or did you set out looking for them


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## Kempstonian (4 Nov 2018)

I wonder how many hours the photographer spent in getting all the tyre valves perfectly centred on the ground and the cranks at the same angle for each bike?

I used to rent an office at a photograher's studio so I know how meticulous they can be!


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## EltonFrog (4 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP what I want to know is , what was you looking for when you found them or did you set out looking for them



I knew my bike was from a catalogue, I didn’t know which. I was idly browsing eBay for 1976 catalogues, happened upon the seller, and by complete chance found that on one of his listings.

Found this too.


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## Illaveago (4 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> Look what I've just found on Ebay
> 
> View attachment 437098
> 
> ...


I was looking at the prices and the TdF is the most expensive. I was wondering if it was the top of the range model ?


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## EltonFrog (4 Nov 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I was looking at the prices and the TdF is the most expensive. I was wondering if it was the top of the range model ?



I think it just had more stuff, the only one with Brooks Leather saddle for example.


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> I think it just had more stuff, the only one with Brooks Leather saddle for example.


I was trying to compare my 78 version with a 70's Carlton Kermesse and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference from what I can make out from a blurry catalogue.


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## EltonFrog (5 Nov 2018)

Illaveago said:


> I was trying to compare my 78 version with a 70's Carlton Kermesse and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference from what I can make out from a blurry catalogue.



Like this? 




It does look similar, but isn’t the frame made of lighter steel? The gears and brakes look more upmarket to me, I could be wrong. The paint job certainly looks classy.


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## Illaveago (5 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> Like this?
> 
> View attachment 437162
> It does look similar, but isn’t the frame made of lighter steel? The gears and brakes look more upmarket to me, I could be wrong. The paint job certainly looks classy.


Similar. I was thinking more of the Bermuda blue one which I and it seems like everyone else drooled over.
I'm not sure what material our frames are made from. High tensile steel or Truwell? I do not know. Weight wise there doesn't seem to be much difference between any of my steel frames, possibly 1 lb, and when they are fitted with a nice pair of alloy wheels there doesn't seem to be much difference when ridden. In fact the Raleigh Granada that I like and am riding at the moment is Reynolds 531butted tubing and is 1lb heavier even though it has the smallest frame.


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## stalagmike (5 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> I knew my bike was from a catalogue, I didn’t know which. I was idly browsing eBay for 1976 catalogues, happened upon the seller, and by complete chance found that on one of his listings.
> 
> Found this too.
> 
> View attachment 437102


I like Baleno as a name. It's meant to translate 'flash' or '''lightning' but can also mean 'whale'. I think it would be whale if I was on it.


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## EltonFrog (5 Nov 2018)

Out for another test ride today, I didn’t have a chance to use the front derailleur last week because I managed to clamp the cable to the bottle cage brackets. 

I’m pleased to report that everything is working as it should and I’m having a coffee and toasted tea cake to celebrate in the new M&S .


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## EltonFrog (13 Nov 2018)

I finally finished a blog about the Tour de France, much of it you've already read about but more photos and detail of the work.


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## roadrash (13 Nov 2018)

excellent write up and photos, I know I followed the thread on cyclechat but enjoyed reading it all together, very well done,you must be pleased with the fruits of your labour


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## EltonFrog (13 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> excellent write up and photos, I know I followed the thread on cyclechat but enjoyed reading it all together, very well done,you must be pleased with the fruits of your labour



It’s a nice bike, I rode it again today, it’s fun to ride but a little small for me. 

Another neighbour told me today about a frame he’s got at his mum’s, a Dawes, he’s going to let me have it. Watch this space for another project.


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## ChrisEyles (13 Nov 2018)

That's a truly fantastic job you've done there! Lovely looking bike. 

Before you write it off as too small, have you tried flipping the saddle clamp to effectively lengthen the top tube?


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## EltonFrog (13 Nov 2018)

ChrisEyles said:


> That's a truly fantastic job you've done there! Lovely looking bike.
> 
> Before you write it off as too small, have you tried flipping the saddle clamp to effectively lengthen the top tube?



No, I’m not quite sure what you mean though.


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## biggs682 (13 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> No, I’m not quite sure what you mean though.



What they mean is turning the saddle clamp to how you had it before


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## EltonFrog (13 Nov 2018)

biggs682 said:


> What they mean is turning the saddle clamp to how you had it before



God! I’m a bloody idiot, I thought I’d done that, I put it back the wrong way after having changed it round. I took the saddle off to adjust the rake. Gah!


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## EltonFrog (14 Nov 2018)

ChrisEyles said:


> That's a truly fantastic job you've done there! Lovely looking bike.
> 
> Before you write it off as too small, have you tried flipping the saddle clamp to effectively lengthen the top tube?





biggs682 said:


> What they mean is turning the saddle clamp to how you had it before



Right then, I've had a fettle, the saddle clamp is now the correct way round and I've moved the seat as far back along the rails as they'll go. Had a little ride around the village and it feels a bit better, I'll have a proper ride later to see how it goes. It looks like its pointing up more than it is but its fine, probably the most comfortable saddle I've ever sat on.


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## biggs682 (14 Nov 2018)

Surprising how it can make a difference


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## EltonFrog (14 Nov 2018)

I’m out on a test ride atm, on the way to Abingdon, the locking nut on the headset popped off! I was four miles from home and the brake cable as pulling the guide and flopping about as I was going down the hill. Phhhhht! 

Luckily I was 2 minutes away from Oxford Bike Works and the nice man there sorted me out, got me out of trouble. He’s got some lovely touring bikes there. 

Once Abingdon I took the bike to the lbs to get them to check the headset, I’m not entirely confident that I’ve done it right. Having a cupper in the cafe whist I’m waiting.


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## ChrisEyles (14 Nov 2018)

I like a bit of an upward slope on my Brooks B17 saddle, yours looks about right to me. Swapping the clamp around should have gained you about the difference between a M and L frame size, so it may fit you yet! 

If you love the bike and want to keep it despite it still being on the small side, you could try lowering the handlebars a bit too. Depends how racy a posture you prefer, but I've done this on slightly-too-small bikes before and it's improved the fit so may be worth a try.


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## biggs682 (14 Nov 2018)

CarlP said:


> I’m out on a test ride atm, on the way to Abingdon, the locking nut on the headset popped off! I was four miles from home and the brake cable as pulling the guide and flopping about as I was going down the hill. Phhhhht!
> 
> Luckily I was 2 minutes away from Oxford Bike Works and the nice man there sorted me out, got me out of trouble. He’s got some lovely touring bikes there.
> 
> Once Abingdon I took the bike to the lbs to get them to check the headset, I’m not entirely confident that I’ve done it right. Having a cupper in the cafe whist I’m waiting.



Enjoy the cafe stop and fingers crossed you will be on your away again soon


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## EltonFrog (14 Nov 2018)

Right then back home; and the ride home was a big improvement on the ride out.

Pedal Power bikes In Abingdon sorted out the headset for me...I'd put too many ball bearings in the crown race so it wasn't all sitting straight, £12.99 it cost, I thought that pretty good value, proper old fashioned bike shop. I will be going back there. 

The steering all works smoothly now and I had a nice ride back 20 mile round trip, I still think the bike is a bit small though, it's better now I've moved the saddle but I can't get my legs straight on the down stroke when pedalling, tough for the amount I'm going to use it I might just live with it. The new wheels are just FAB, what a difference they make, so smooth. 

Thanks @biggs682 & @ChrisEyles for the tips.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Nov 2018)

If you cant get the saddle high enough, a longer seatpost will sort that. You must have gained a good inch of reach by turning the clamp round. It looks like a bog standard 1" diameter post, so will be found in pretty much any hi-tensile road frame. Keep an eye out for a scrap Apollo in a skip, as they often have long seatposts for some reason.


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## roadrash (15 Nov 2018)

@CarlP im pretty sure I have a longer 1" seat post knocking around somewhere that you are welcome to , but it will be sat/sun before I have a mooch in the shed.


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## EltonFrog (15 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP im pretty sure I have a longer 1" seat post knocking around somewhere that you are welcome to , but it will be sat/sun before I have a mooch in the shed.



Thanks very much, that would be great, no rush.


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## EltonFrog (21 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP im pretty sure I have a longer 1" seat post knocking around somewhere that you are welcome to , but it will be sat/sun before I have a mooch in the shed.



Did you get a chance to find the seat post?


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## roadrash (21 Nov 2018)

@CarlP unfortunately not see here...
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/flu.242643/

I will see what this weekend brings


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## EltonFrog (21 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP unfortunately not see here...
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/flu.242643/
> 
> I will see what this weekend brings



I’m sorry to hear that, get well soon. The Cafe is on my ignor node list. Thanks


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## roadrash (28 Nov 2018)

@CarlP finally managed to dig it out, I thought it was in better condition ,and I thought it was longer, could be repainted if you wish , let me know if it is any use to you.....


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## EltonFrog (28 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP finally managed to dig it out, I thought it was in better condition ,and I thought it was longer, could be repainted if you wish , let me know if it is any use to you.....
> View attachment 440697
> View attachment 440698
> View attachment 440699



Thanks for digging it out, but I want one without the thingy at the top.


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## roadrash (28 Nov 2018)

I will have a look tomorrow I may have one not sure though


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2018)

Only ine ride you can do on that when it is ready.


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## EltonFrog (28 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Only ine ride you can do on that when it is ready.



Which is?


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2018)

Tour de France of course!


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## roadrash (28 Nov 2018)

@CarlP you could use the one I have, just remove the clamp from under your saddle and it would then clamp on to this seatpost by the saddle rails


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## EltonFrog (28 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> Tour de France of course!



Hmm, yeah right. 

But...I discovered just yesterday from my neighbour that the original owner rode the BHF London to Brighton on it about 15 years ago when he found out he had a heart condition. 

So I am seriously considering the matter of doing that on this bike next year.


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## EltonFrog (28 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP you could use the one I have, just remove the clamp from under your saddle and it would then clamp on to this seatpost by the saddle rails



Thanks, I’ll pass on it but I appreciate the offer.


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## EltonFrog (29 Nov 2018)

roadrash said:


> @CarlP you could use the one I have, just remove the clamp from under your saddle and it would then clamp on to this seatpost by the saddle rails



Just thought I'd mention that yesterday I was reading your post on my mobile device, and couldn't see the photos clearly, I actually want a chrome seat post for the bike yours looks like it's black. Many thanks for going to the trouble of digging it out though.


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## PaddyMcc (29 Nov 2018)

An excellent thread thank you


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## EltonFrog (3 Dec 2018)

Just taken delivery of a longer chrome seat post from some nice chap on the Vintage Raleigh FB page, should give me the extra height I need.


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## EltonFrog (3 Dec 2018)

Now with new seat post.


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## biggs682 (3 Dec 2018)

CarlP said:


> Just taken delivery of a longer chrome seat post from some nice chap on the Vintage Raleigh FB page, should give me the extra height I need.
> 
> View attachment 441311



Amazing what an extra inch or two can do for you


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## EltonFrog (3 Dec 2018)

biggs682 said:


> Amazing what an extra inch or two can do for you



Oooh I say! Matron!


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## EltonFrog (10 Dec 2018)

Took the bike out today as the roads were dry to test the saddle height after fitting the new seat post, I'm please to report that after a couple of minor tweaks I now have a bike that does not feel to cramped to ride. 

A couple of photos of today's ride.


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## roadrash (10 Dec 2018)

looking good, I take it its a keeper then


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## EltonFrog (10 Dec 2018)

roadrash said:


> looking good, I take it its a keeper then



Yup, for now. It's nice to ride, though I'm still getting used to changing the gears.


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## D_97_goodtimes (20 Dec 2018)

CarlP said:


> As mentioned in the other thread I’ve made a start on mine.
> 
> The bike is now a box of bits.
> 
> ...


Soak in plus gas and use hammer and cold chisel


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## Paulus (20 Dec 2018)

CarlP said:


> Took the bike out today as the roads were dry to test the saddle height after fitting the new seat post, I'm please to report that after a couple of minor tweaks I now have a bike that does not feel to cramped to ride.
> 
> A couple of photos of today's ride.
> 
> ...



How do you get on with the saddle angle? It looks a bit high at the front for my liking


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## EltonFrog (20 Dec 2018)

D_97_goodtimes said:


> Soak in plus gas and use hammer and cold chisel



You’re a bit late, but thanks for tip.


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## EltonFrog (20 Dec 2018)

Paulus said:


> How do you get on with the saddle angle? It looks a bit high at the front for my liking



It’s not as angular as it looks in the photo, it’s fine and the most comfortable saddle I’ve ever sat on.


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## EltonFrog (23 Jan 2019)

CarlP said:


> Hmm, yeah right.
> 
> But...I discovered just yesterday from my neighbour that the original owner rode the BHF London to Brighton on it about 15 years ago when he found out he had a heart condition.
> 
> So I am seriously considering the matter of doing that on this bike next year.



Breaking News. 

I’ve signed up for the British Heart Foundation London to Brighton bike ride. I’m going to do it on this bike.


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## Illaveago (23 Jan 2019)

CarlP said:


> Breaking News.
> 
> I’ve signed up for the British Heart Foundation London to Brighton bike ride. I’m going to do it on this bike.


Well done you ! When is it ?


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## biggs682 (23 Jan 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Well done you ! When is it ?



16th June by the look of it

https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-...3EMP-8nSc_uaFVTmg4gaAjEyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## EltonFrog (23 Jan 2019)

biggs682 said:


> 16th June by the look of it
> 
> https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-...3EMP-8nSc_uaFVTmg4gaAjEyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



Yup 16th June.


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## Boon 51 (23 Jan 2019)

CarlP said:


> Now with new seat post.
> 
> View attachment 441312



Lovely bike dude.


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## EltonFrog (23 Jan 2019)

Boon 51 said:


> Lovely bike dude.



Cheers! It was a labour of love.


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## Boon 51 (23 Jan 2019)

CarlP said:


> Cheers! It was a labour of love.



That makes them even better.


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## DCBassman (24 Jan 2019)

I was going to do this also, but won't have recovered from the shoulder replacement in time. Enjoy!


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## EltonFrog (24 Jan 2019)

DCBassman said:


> I was going to do this also, but won't have recovered from the shoulder replacement in time. Enjoy!


That’s a pity. I’ve never heard of a shoulder replacement, must be a bugger for anyone, but especially a banjo slapper.


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## DCBassman (24 Jan 2019)

It's certainly going to tame the playing for a bit!


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## DCBassman (24 Jan 2019)

Banjos...what do you call 10,000 banjos at the bottom of the ocean?





A good start...


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## carpenter (24 Jan 2019)

Brilliant work with the bike, and thanks for mentioning the London to Brighton - I think that I may have a go (my wife is supportive and has offered to "pick me up" at the end of it).


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## EltonFrog (24 Jan 2019)

carpenter said:


> Brilliant work with the bike, and thanks for mentioning the London to Brighton - I think that I may have a go (my wife is supportive and has offered to "pick me up" at the end of it).



The Fragrant MrsP is doing the ride with me.


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## EltonFrog (27 Jan 2019)

A Tour de France for sale here , got two bids so far. I like the Dynamo lights on it.


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## mikeymustard (27 Jan 2019)

CarlP said:


> A Tour de France for sale here , got two bids so far. I like the Dynamo lights on it.


tsk, shorty mudguards? On a bike set up as a tourer? Just why?


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## Javabob (1 Feb 2019)

I’m doing London to Brighton too. Maybe I should haul my dad’s BSA Tour of Britain out from its slumbers and use that instead of my own bike.....


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## EltonFrog (1 Feb 2019)

Javabob said:


> I’m doing London to Brighton too. Maybe I should haul my dad’s BSA Tour of Britain out from its slumbers and use that instead of my own bike.....



It’s basically the same bike, five gears instead of 10. I shall keep a look out for your bike.


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## EltonFrog (9 Feb 2019)

Someone in Australia has done a blog about a BSA Tour of Britain that looks like a T de F most confusing. I’d be interested what folks make of it. I’ve reblogged it. 

Here


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## Illaveago (9 Feb 2019)

CarlP said:


> Someone in Australia has done a blog about a BSA Tour of Britain that looks like a T de F most confusing. I’d be interested what folks make of it. I’ve reblogged it.
> 
> Here


I think they are basically the same apart from the name and colour scheme.


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## EltonFrog (22 May 2019)

It's been a while, but I've been on a few rides on this bike, as posted on the Your Ride Today thread and the ABC Towns and Villages challenge thread.

I have also finally signed up to the London to Brighton bike ride on the 16th June in aid of the British Heart Foundation and in memory of my near neighbour, Alan Davies who died suddenly in Feb 2017. The ride is about 56 miles, not such a stretch, but I will be riding it on this bike, Alan's 43 old steel bike that _I_ re-built...so anything could happen! If you've got a couple of bob to spare I would be very grateful if you would sponsor me by clicking here. Thank you.


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## EltonFrog (19 Jun 2019)

Right Then. 

This particular project is finished with, rounded off by riding the BHF London to Brighton bike ride on Sunday, read here.(link)

It’s time to let this machine go now so if anyone wants to buy it, £150.00 it’s yours, just about covers the cost of new parts which have been listed up thread that have covered 97.71 miles. 

I live in South Oxfordshire, but can pack it and send it for cost.


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## Illaveago (19 Jun 2019)

CarlP said:


> Right Then.
> 
> This particular project is finished with, rounded off by riding the BHF London to Brighton bike ride on Sunday, read here.(link)
> 
> ...


Oh ! What a shame after all that work you put into it .


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## EltonFrog (19 Jun 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Oh ! What a shame after all that work you put into it .



Not really a shame, I enjoyed it, it was cathartic and helped me get over the unfortunate circumstances that lead to me me acquiring the bike, so job done. I have reached the end of that particular journey.


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## Illaveago (19 Jun 2019)

CarlP said:


> Not really a shame, I enjoyed it, it was cathartic and helped me get over the unfortunate circumstances that lead to me me acquiring the bike, so job done. I have reached the end of that particular journey.


I see from your picture that the frame looks a bit on the small side . I also noticed that there isn't a great difference in the chainring sizes, close ratio , so I can see why you had problems on the hills .
I have yet to dig mine out of the garage again . Possibly when we get some sunny days .


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## EltonFrog (19 Jun 2019)

Illaveago said:


> I see from your picture that the frame looks a bit on the small side . I also noticed that there isn't a great difference in the chainring sizes, close ratio , so I can see why you had problems on the hills .
> I have yet to dig mine out of the garage again . Possibly when we get some sunny days .



Probably is a bit small, but once I sorted the seat post out it was a comfortable ride, and I had no real ill effects afterwards, a little cramp but I get that anyway.


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## Cavalol (19 Jun 2019)

What size frame is it, please?


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## EltonFrog (20 Jun 2019)

Cavalol said:


> What size frame is it, please?


I’ll check later, but I think they’re all the same.


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## EltonFrog (20 Jun 2019)

Cavalol said:


> What size frame is it, please?



22.5 inches, as I understand it they were all that size, certainly the all the ones from the catalogue.


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## EltonFrog (23 Jun 2019)

I sold the bike today to a member of the veteran cycle club.


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