# The 2015 Night Ride thread



## srw (14 Sep 2014)

[edit]
*Register of rides....*
(nothing guaranteed yet)


6th March - @redfalo and ⁠@ianrauk - London to Brighton
17th April - @Trickedem - London to Whitstable
2nd May - @swarm_catcher - Brussels to De Panne.
15th May - @StuAff - Round the Isle of Wight
Late June or early July - @dellzeqq - London to Whitstable
A time to be decided - @srw and @Fab Foodie - London to Oxford or Abingdon


Please contact the indicated user by PM if you want more details.

--------------------------------------------
The night-meister @dellzeqq is taking a break for at least some of next year, and a number of others are thinking of trying to fill in the gaps in the calendar. To avoid too much duplication, and clashes, this is your chance to declare your hands. I'll start.

I'm intending to do something from Central London to Oxford, via Buckinghamshire on roads which are much less hilly than the ones the Tour of Britain used. I've got an enthusiastic in-principle agreement from the local church to provide refreshments half-way, and @Fab Foodie is using his contacts to see if we can find somewhere good in Oxford for breakfast.

I've also had a couple of other ideas for non-coastal destinations, but so far nothing more than ideas that I think might have legs.

Anyone else? @AKA Bob @Flying Dodo @redfalo @theclaud


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## ianrauk (14 Sep 2014)

I am planning on running a Whitstable ride. and could also run a Southend.


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## redfalo (14 Sep 2014)

Brilliant idea to start such a discussion. I'm happy to do a London to Brighton ride or two next year, and/or a Dun Run lite (Hackney to Dunwich, but on a Friday night leaving at midnight).

I'm also aware that @ianrauk and @Trickedem are mulling a Whitstable one, while @StuAff wants to repeat the Night Ride around the Isle of Wight. I'm sure @Andrew Br can be talked into organising a Mancunian night ride. @mmmmartin may also be a candidate to lead another one. And maybe @sbird re-runs Reading to Lymington, as well as @swarm_catcher her fabulous Flemish night ride to the Kust from Brussles to Oostende?

As a starting point, it may be good to get an idea of the weekends closest to full moon between March and November 2015 (I used this website, let's hope it's accurate)

March 6th -- London to Brigthon night ride (led by redfalo and hopefully @ianrauk )
April 3rd (Easter Weekend)
May 1st 
May 22nd - May 26th The Fridays Tour de Normandie 2015
June 5th
July 3rd (Dunwich Dynamo on July 4th)
July 31st
August 28th
Sept 25th
Oct 30th
Nov 27th

As I'm toying with the idea of doing BPB PBP, my diary will be pretty packed in May and June. I'll also be away over the Easter holidays. But I could lead a Brighton ride on March 6. Not sure about plans in 2nd part of the year at the moment.


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## srw (14 Sep 2014)

I'm embarrassed to say I forgot @mcshroom's forum name - he's got a cross-Britain ride running next weekend.


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## dellzeqq (14 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> As I'm toying with the idea of doing *BPB*, my diary will be pretty packed in May and June. I'll also be away over the Easter holidays. But I could lead a Brighton ride on March 6. Not sure about plans in 2nd part of the year at the moment.


Don't. You'll look silly.


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## Andrew Br (14 Sep 2014)

I'll be happy to repeat the Manchester-Morecambe ride or I could look for a better destination although I don't know where yet.

.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> Don't. You'll look silly.


It's in aid of dislecksia ....


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## Fab Foodie (14 Sep 2014)

Is this too anal?

Divide the area around Londinium into 4 say:
M1 to Essex Estuary
Kent Estuary to the M23
M23 to M4
M4 to the M1

Have a group of peeps in each quadrant who have to organise 2 night rides per year in their quadrant. Divide-up the calender. Shouldn't be to onerous?
Also, reverse routes could be possible. Par example, Oxford to Londinium is a well trodden path these days ....







OK, it was a shoot idea wasn't it ....


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## User10571 (14 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> The night-meister @dellzeqq is taking a break for at least some of next year, and a number of others are thinking of trying to fill in the gaps in the calendar. To avoid too much duplication, and clashes, this is your chance to declare your hands. I'll start.



Good call


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## srw (14 Sep 2014)

@Fab Foodie - a bit anal, but not silly - though I'd argue for voluntarism not compulsion in organising.

My impression is that the Oxford to London ride is (a) a bit hard-core in terms of hills, and (b) doesn't actually go to London, but stops about 10 miles short in Acton. I'm not keen on the _to London_ direction, because it goes towards the traffickest bits of the country. If you _must_ start in London (and it is an attractive start because it's easy to get to) it makes sense to get it out of the way in the middle of the night, when most sensible people are fast asleep.


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## Fab Foodie (14 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> @Fab Foodie - a bit anal, but not silly - though I'd argue for voluntarism not compulsion in organising.
> 
> My impression is that the Oxford to London ride is (a) a bit hard-core in terms of hills, and (b) doesn't actually go to London, but stops about 10 miles short in Acton. I'm not keen on the _to London_ direction, because it goes towards the traffickest bits of the country. If you _must_ start in London (and it is an attractive start because it's easy to get to) it makes sense to get it out of the way in the middle of the night, when most sensible people are fast asleep.


Sorry, just to clarify (I was rushing because the Butler had just hit the dinner gong ...).
Of course volunteers, compulsion would be silly.

In terms of Oxford to London specifically; there's no good reason why it has to stop in Acton, the final miles into say HPC or other are easy and with little traffic on a Saturday morn between 7 and 8 am..
Hill-wise, it really depends on the route taken (there are many variations). OK you have to get up over Chinnor or similar but other than that there are few hills of any note. Chinnor hill now has ToB fame to boot! If people can do L2B, then O2L is certainly no harder.

Anyhow, as you were.


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## AKA Bob (14 Sep 2014)

As @srw seems to have London to Oxford in hand happy to organise a London to Winchester adventure


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

Should the lovely @swarm_catcher be doing the FNRttK, and I hope she does as it's an absolute corker, I should imagine that will be (as previous editions) on the first Saturday night in May- May 2 in 2015. 

I am indeed planning to do another IOW loop- the suggestions about leaving it to May were good ones, we got lucky with the weather this year. I'll start a thread on it in the not-too-distant future to gauge interest. If possible, I'd prefer to run it anti-clockwise but that'll depend on getting a suitable refreshment stop, which will in turn depend on numbers.

London-Pompey has been done by small groups of (mostly) locals a couple of times, and if anyone fancied it I'd happily do another run. Bear in mind that it's rolling terrain with a few nasty climbs (the stretch either side of Haslemere is particularly 'welcome' with fifty-plus miles in your legs) and the halfway stop is Tesco in Guildford.....


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## srw (14 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> As @srw seems to have London to Oxford in hand happy to organise a London to Winchester adventure


Excellent idea. Friday night ride to the cathedrals? London to Ely is probably about the right distance. Reading to Bristol? Oxford to Coventry? MK to Peterborough?


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## srw (14 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> Should the lovely @swarm_catcher be doing the FNRttK, and I hope she does as it's an absolute corker, I should imagine that will be (as previous editions) on the first Saturday night in May- May 2 in 2015.
> 
> I am indeed planning to do another IOW loop- the suggestions about leaving it to May were good ones, we got lucky with the weather this year. I'll start a thread on it in the not-too-distant future to gauge interest. If possible, I'd prefer to run it anti-clockwise but that'll depend on getting a suitable refreshment stop, which will in turn depend on numbers.
> 
> London-Pompey has been done by small groups of (mostly) locals a couple of times, and if anyone fancied it I'd happily do another run. Bear in mind that it's rolling terrain with a few nasty climbs (the stretch either side of Haslemere is particularly 'welcome' with fifty-plus miles in your legs) and the halfway stop is Tesco in Guildford.....


Depending on numbers it needn't be Tesco if the halfway point is Guildford. I can certainly do half a dozen, probably squeeze in a dozen and half if they're friendly and may be able to rustle up someone to do something more somewhere in the area.


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Depending on numbers it needn't be Tesco if the halfway point is Guildford. I can certainly do half a dozen, probably squeeze in a dozen and half if they're friendly and may be able to rustle up someone to do something more somewhere in the area.


I'll bear that in mind. Thanks.


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## Flying Dodo (14 Sep 2014)

At Christmas (ie in 3 months time rather than next year), I'll be re-running my Whitstable round tour, which starts at Whitstable, goes down to Dover, then basically the Viking trail all the way round the coast back to Whitstable in time for breakfast.

I do have a hankering for a London to Folkstone/Dover night ride. It is a bit hard core as it's long at about 90 miles though.


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> At Christmas (ie in 3 months time rather than next year), I'll be re-running my Whitstable round tour, which starts at Whitstable, goes down to Dover, then basically the Viking trail all the way round the coast back to Whitstable in time for breakfast.
> 
> I do have a hankering for a London to Folkstone/Dover night ride. It is a bit hard core as it's long at about 90 miles though.


London-Dover was great. Dave's knees obviously disagree!


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## ianrauk (14 Sep 2014)

and if @redfalo is too busy. Happy to run the Brighton ride.


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## redfalo (14 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> and if @redfalo is too busy. Happy to run the Brighton ride.



One lesson I learnt on the Brighton ride on 5 Sept that - unless your name is Simon Legg - its really good to have (at least) two people at the front of the ride who are experienced at night rides and know the route, the usual regrouping points and such kind of stuff. So I'd be more than happy to do it jointly with you again.


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## ianrauk (14 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> One lesson I learnt on the Brighton ride on 5 Sept that - unless your name is Simon Legg - its really good to have (at least) two people at the front of the ride who are experienced at night rides and know the route, the usual regrouping points and such kind of stuff. So I'd be more than happy to do it jointly with you again.




Good man...happy to go for what ever date is good for you.


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## dellzeqq (14 Sep 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> Is this too anal?
> ..


yup.....


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## Fab Foodie (14 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> yup.....


damn ....


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

Forgot to add earlier- happy to help with full or partial recces (& route advice) anywhere within reasonable distance.


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## Andrew Br (14 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> One lesson I learnt on the Brighton ride on 5 Sept that - unless your name is Simon Legg - its really good to have (at least) two people at the front of the ride who are experienced at night rides and know the route, the usual regrouping points and such kind of stuff................


Yes.
On the Manchester-Morecambe ride it was a great help to me after Bury that redfalo could lead the ride while I replied to various 'phone calls and made arrangements for our arrivals at Morecambe and Lancaster.

.


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## dellzeqq (14 Sep 2014)

would it help if I updated 'so you want to run a night ride'?


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## Dogtrousers (14 Sep 2014)

Dare I mention the dread word insurance here? Could people be putting themselves at big risk organising such things without ride organisers insurance? Would the same rules requring all participants to have 3rd party insurance apply (and be policed?).

I might consider re-doing my Coventry ride that I ran this year as a night ride, but it's a long way (95+ miles) and there are various other "but"s that I won't go into right now (insurance being one of them).


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## ianrauk (14 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Dare I mention the dread word insurance here? Could people be putting themselves at big risk organising such things without ride organisers insurance? Would the same rules requring all participants to have 3rd party insurance apply (and be policed?).
> 
> I might consider re-doing my Coventry ride that I did ran this year as a night ride, but it's a long way (95+ miles) and there are various other "but"s that I won't go into right now (insurance being one of them).




I would run any ride I plan under FNR rules and conditions. As was @redfalo 's night ride to Brighton last week.


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> I would run any ride I plan under FNR rules and conditions. As was @redfalo 's night ride to Brighton last week.


And so was the IOW one I did. One less thing to worry about for an organiser....


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## Dogtrousers (14 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> And so was the IOW one I did. One less thing to worry about for an organiser....


Which covers the participants having 3rd party but ...
Could the organiser be open to being sued or something like that?


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Which covers the participants having 3rd party but ...
> Could the organiser be open to being sued or something like that?


http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_Public/member_groups_insurance_0.pdf


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## Dogtrousers (14 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_Public/member_groups_insurance_0.pdf


The huge number of words there, some of them quite long, and some which may be of the weasel variety are basically the reason why I'd be reticent about volunteering to organise anything. 
I will have a bash at reading it tho.


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> The huge number of words there, some of them quite long, and some which may be of the weasel variety are basically the reason why I'd be reticent about volunteering to organise anything.
> I will have a bash at reading it tho.


Short answer: If you're all paid-up full or affiliate CTC members, you're all covered.


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## Ollie W (14 Sep 2014)

More than happy to help out with any jaunts around the Winch/Soton/IoW area if I can be of service in any way.


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## dellzeqq (14 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Dare I mention the dread word insurance here? Could people be putting themselves at big risk organising such things without ride organisers insurance? Would the same rules requring all participants to have 3rd party insurance apply (and be policed?).
> 
> I might consider re-doing my Coventry ride that I ran this year as a night ride, but it's a long way (95+ miles) and there are various other "but"s that I won't go into right now (insurance being one of them).


Olaf's ride to Brighton was a Fridays ride. The Fridays policy costs £75 a year, and that covers the organiser. I'll renew it as usual next year.

If people want to run Fridays rides then.......
we have to publish a schedule. That's the CTC's requirement. There must be no more than 5 non-members.

My baseline(s) for Fridays rides are
- The route has been recce'd and risk assessed. There's a list of participants. The participants all have 3rd party insurance, have given their mobile numbers and have all confirmed that they have read and understood 'the basics'. They must all join The Fridays. A TEC team with a chef d'affaires is in place, who should be able to get in touch with the person on the front. The Wayfinders know what they're doing. There's a safety talk that includes the usual stuff and specific risks are explained. The halfway stop has toilets. The ride leader knows the way and can make decisions about the route on the move.

The other stuff is more about reputation.


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## dellzeqq (14 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> Short answer: If you're all paid-up full or affiliate CTC members, you're all covered.


not really..........


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## StuAff (14 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> not really..........


Got it, points from #36 taken. Good for future reference. Hadn't realised there had to be a published schedule.


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## redfalo (15 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> would it help if I updated 'so you want to run a night ride'?



definitely!

I suggest we also should think about some way of pooling the data. I collected CTC numbers and all the other stuff from members before the Brighton ride, but I does not really make sense if everyone organising a ride has to reinvent the wheel with regard to this.


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## srw (15 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> definitely!
> 
> I suggest we also should think about some way of pooling the data. I collected CTC numbers and all the other stuff from members before the Brighton ride, but I does not really make sense if everyone organising a ride has to reinvent the wheel with regard to this.


Up to a point, Lord Copper.

As soon as you start collecting data you're knocking on the door of data protection laws. As an organiser, I'd want everyone individually to send me their mobile numbers and CTC numbers (and, probably, ICE phone numbers) so that I knew I had them. On the other hand, I'd also like access to a pool of email addresses of people who might be interested in having advertising emals thrown at them.


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## Agent Hilda (15 Sep 2014)

Can I just say on an absolutely personal note that it is going to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great next year. We are going to have japes and a half! I done them already.

And possibly we might very well tag along on the odd ride organised by someone else without a care in the world! Not A Care! Whoooooooooop!

Plus anyone want my medium/large jerseys I got French ones and everything - let the old man know

Agent H

Xxxxx


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## ianrauk (15 Sep 2014)

Agent Hilda said:


> Can I just say on an absolutely personal note that it is going to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great next year. We are going to have japes and a half! I done them already.
> 
> *And possibly we might very well tag along on the odd ride organised by someone else without a care in the world! Not A Care! Whoooooooooop!*
> 
> ...



Bloody hope so...


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## StuAff (15 Sep 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Bloody hope so...


+1!


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## hatler (15 Sep 2014)

God yes !
It'd be weird without you both all year.


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## velovoice (15 Sep 2014)

hatler said:


> God yes !
> It'd be weird without you both all year.


+1 !!


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## Flying Dodo (15 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Up to a point, Lord Copper.
> 
> As soon as you start collecting data you're knocking on the door of data protection laws. As an organiser, I'd want everyone individually to send me their mobile numbers and CTC numbers (and, probably, ICE phone numbers) so that I knew I had them. On the other hand, I'd also like access to a pool of email addresses of people who might be interested in having advertising emals thrown at them.



There are exemptions for common interest clubs & societies, so the quick answer is that it's not an issue as you or I or anyone else don't have to register as a data user.


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## AKA Bob (15 Sep 2014)

Can I also put two other 'Cathedral' rides in the pot. Reading to Chichester and Reading to Salisbury.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_Public/member_groups_insurance_0.pdf


 
I’ve finally read that link. It has destroyed by dreams of a firearms and bouncy castle themed night ride.

As I read it, provided that:

There exists a CTC _Member Group_
The organiser is an _Officer _of that Member Group
The organiser has a list of all participants, incl their CTC numbers (plus has done other diligent stuff in line with CTC guidelines, eg no more than 5 non-members).
Then the organiser is covered, and the 3rd point provides assurance that all parties have 3rd party insurance. (Although without verifying each individual number there’s a risk that there may be lapsed members and other non-members in amongst the participants).

I think the key question is: Are these proposed rides to be done under the imprimatur of the Fridays, using the existing club structures established by DZ?

If so things should slot in OK. The appropriate structures should already exist and steps can be taken to appoint the organiser as an officer, with the additional wrinkle of the need to publish a schedule in advance. I think that was the case with the recent Brighton ride.

But if they are to be done "in the style of" the Fridays/FNRttC, but using different/new organisational structures, then one or more new Member Groups would be required to be established, and officers appointed, in order to ensure organiser’s liability cover.

On a less boring note, if anyone is stepping up to the task of organising a York/Hull/Other E Yorkshire ride, for next year then I’m happy to do some recce riding, or other practical helping, as I visit there quite frequently. Laziness, lack of commitment, living at the other end of the country and fear of all the bureaucratic stuff above preclude me from volunteering to organise it myself.


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## AKA Bob (15 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I’ve finally read that link. It has destroyed by dreams of a firearms and bouncy castle themed night ride.
> 
> As I read it, provided that:
> 
> ...



When I have lead rides for my local CTC group I haven't ever held an official office of the group however just conferred authority given to leaders of authorised and published local CTC Rides.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> When I have lead rides for my local CTC group I haven't ever held an official office of the group however just conferred authority given to leaders of authorised and published local CTC Rides.


Fair enough, the above was just what I garnered from reading the referenced documentation. Happy to be wrong, I usually am.


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## Flying Dodo (15 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Excellent idea. Friday night ride to the cathedrals? London to Ely is probably about the right distance. Reading to Bristol? Oxford to Coventry? MK to Peterborough?



I like your cathedrals idea. I was on the train through Ely recently and thought it looked a nice place to cycle to.


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## srw (15 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> There are exemptions for common interest clubs & societies, so the quick answer is that it's not an issue as you or I or anyone else don't have to register as a data user.


Phew.


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## srw (15 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> I like your cathedrals idea. I was on the train through Ely recently and thought it looked a nice place to cycle to.


As it happens I have contacts in Ely cathedral, though whether I'd trust them to organise breakfast I don't know. It is a lovely place, although to get to it you (almost) have to go through the hell-hole that is Cambridge, and I'm not sure of the safety of the roads thereafter.

I've also got a contact in Wells cathedral (who I would trust to organise breakast), but Wells is sadly bereft of a station.

I feel a discussion over curry, breakfast and beer coming on this weekend.


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## dellzeqq (15 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> There are exemptions for common interest clubs & societies, so the quick answer is that it's not an issue as you or I or anyone else don't have to register as a data user.


yup. We did this one.
Remember that other clubs organise night rides. Reading CTC and Peterborough CTC to name but two.Check this out.
http://www.ctcpeterborough.org.uk/our-rides/ If memory serves Ely is on their list.


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## User10119 (15 Sep 2014)

I can't offer to organise a ride, since that would involve riding-a-bike-a-long-way and I'm remarkably crap at that at the moment.

But I'd be very happy to cheerlead/bake/assist etc for any round the York-ish neck of the woods.


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## User10571 (15 Sep 2014)

[QUOTE 3281361, member: 10119"]I can't offer to organise a ride, since that would involve riding-a-bike-a-long-way and I'm remarkably crap at that at the moment.

But I'd be very happy to cheerlead/bake/assist etc for any round the York-ish neck of the woods.[/QUOTE]
Your generosity and hospitality - that which IHE - knows few bounds.


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## redfalo (15 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Or we could leave the club, and its insurance cover, to one side for the time being and people could run and participate rides between friends on a consenting adults basis.



That would definitely make things a lot easier. The downside probably would be that access for first timers would become more difficult. At least I would feel highly uneasy about leading a group with a fair share of uninsured and inexperienced newbies. Plus, I really like the Friday's openness to new riders of any form and shape. Without it, I would have never been bitten by this night riding madness.

Such rides - maybe calld Dark Night Rides to the Coast, or DNRttC - should be discussed in private chats rather than in the open internet. I'm not fundamentally against this idea, but eventually it all hinges on @dellzeqq's answer to @Dogtrousers question:



> "Are these proposed rides to be done under the imprimatur of the Fridays, using the existing club structures established by DZ?"


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## sagefly (15 Sep 2014)

Guys and girls

I've really enjoyed the Friday night rides and would like to offer a bit more.

Any help or extras for recceing rides etc I'm up for it if free from work.

The Oxford to London ride in particular, I'm sure that I could organise a pub near HPC for breakfast, plus it has space for bike parking etc.


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## Aperitif (15 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Or we could leave the club, and its insurance cover, to one side for the time being and people could run and participate rides between friends *on a consenting adults basis*.


Doggingtrousers?

Thank you, Simon.


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## StuAff (15 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> Can I also put two other 'Cathedral' rides in the pot. Reading to Chichester and Reading to Salisbury.


Reading to Chi is pretty much all in my usual riding neck of the woods- most of the roads you've probably got in mind I'll have ridden at least once or twice, if not a lot more frequently. Any route advice/checking/cafe research I can offer is yours. Salisbury's a bit further out of my way, but I might still be able to help out if need be.


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## User10571 (16 Sep 2014)

Aperitif said:


> Thank you, Simon.


Indeed.


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## dellzeqq (17 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I’ve finally read that link. It has destroyed by dreams of a firearms and bouncy castle themed night ride.
> 
> As I read it, provided that:
> 
> ...


Just to be clear. The Fridays is not a Member Group. It's an Affiliated Club. They've re-issued the leaflet - the text of which is below. The cover expires on 30th September, but I'm presuming that they will renew......

Organisation included in the insurance
[Name of affiliated body]
Period of insurance
[Period of cover offered to the affiliated
body]
How is the insurance provided?
CTC has arranged Organisers’ Liability cover for bodies affiliated to CTC and its officers. Cover is given under a cover taken out by CTC with Royal & Sun Alliance under policy number RSAP1587485200. The policy has a maximum liability of £10,000,000 in respect of each incident and is for the period 1 October 2013 to 30 September 2014. Cover provided to you after 30 September 2014 will reflect the cover available to CTC at the time. A copy of the master insurance policy is available on request.
CTC believes that the cover provided meets the needs of affiliated bodies.
CTC has not assessed individual needs for insurance and you will not receive advice or recommendations from CTC about your insurance needs.
CTC arrange this cover via Butterworth Spengler Insurance Group, who are authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You may check this and obtain further information by looking at the Financial ServicesRegister.
Summary of the cover provided Affiliated bodies (‘You’) may organise rides primarily for their members. They may also organise ‘events’ which are rides for both members and the public.
You are covered for rides / events providing the ride / event involves fewer than 200 riders. For events involvingmore than 200 riders, you must advise CTC of the details in advance of the event by completing an event registration form.
You are covered for rides / events which are touring competitions, reliability events, audax events, and in record breaking. You are not covered for any form of competitive cycling including time trials or mass start races.
The cover also includes social events run as part of a ride, for example, tea stops or a barbecue for ride participants at the end of a ride and for meetings of your organisation.
If your officers are involved in the running of a ride / event (as a ride
leader, marshal, or in a similar capacity), you are covered against claims made against you or your officers for injury or damage caused to a third party.
Rides in collaboration with other bodies are covered provided you are clearly the organiser of the ride / event and CTC rules and guidelines are applied to the
event.
Your officers are covered while they are a fully paid-up individual member of your organisation. For peace of mind, you are strongly encouraged to register with
CTC your officials who you want to be covered.
You are covered provided the ride / event is run in accordance with any guidance issued by CTC and in particular that you are aware of all participants on the ride / event, either through collection of names or by completion of an entry form.
‘Tours’ lasting more than one day and including transport and / or
accommodation may constitute a ‘package’. Unless organised via a bonded travel operator such as CTC Cycling Holidays and Tours, such a ‘tour’ may be illegal and will not be covered.
Geographic cover
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## Dogtrousers (17 Sep 2014)

Wahey! They seem to have rescinded the restrictions on bouncy castles and weapons.


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## dellzeqq (17 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Wahey! They seem to have rescinded the restrictions on bouncy castles and weapons.


I did try to persuade the CTC Council that the entire safety procedure thing should be condensed to 'no discharging of automatic weapons in urban areas' but they weren't having it..........


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## AKA Bob (17 Sep 2014)

Also have some ideas for some London based fun but educational rides.


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## rb58 (17 Sep 2014)

I'm a bit late to this thread. The FNRttC concept was a real inspiration to me, so I'm more than happy to help in any way I can. In particular on Essex and Kent rides. I have access to tea rooms overlooking Hadleigh Castle and the Olympic Mountain bike venue which could make a good alternative destination than Southend. @ianrauk are riding together this weekend, so we'll compare notes then.


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## srw (17 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Or we could leave the club, and its insurance cover, to one side for the time being and people could run and participate rides between friends on a consenting adults basis.


I think there's room for both. I would probably be happy with half a dozen consenting adults, but not really more. Others will have more risk appetite. I'd prefer the formality because it allows for a bigger event and also encourages newbies.

When I did my first FNRttC I was just three electronic initials. I very deliberately didn't publicise my presence in case I didn't enjoy it. As it happens, I did, and @theclaud invited me for a beer afterwards.


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## Tim Hall (17 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> I did try to persuade the CTC Council that the entire safety procedure thing should be condensed to 'no discharging of automatic weapons in urban areas' but they weren't having it..........


We're back to The Long Good Friday aren't we.


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## User10571 (17 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Where better?


I'm a businessman, with a sense of history. I'm also a Londoner....


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## slowmotion (17 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> Also have some ideas for some London based fun but educational rides.


 Will they be around Christmas time and involve feasting and rehydration at All Bar One?


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## User482 (18 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Excellent idea. Friday night ride to the cathedrals? London to Ely is probably about the right distance. Reading to Bristol? Oxford to Coventry? MK to Peterborough?



Reading to Bristol is probably too far - you're looking at 85 miles by the direct route down the A4. Reading to Bath could be shaved to around 75 miles. Bristol to Cardiff around 55 miles via the scenic route. 

Of course I'd be happy to help with route planning, recces etc for anything around these parts.


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## mmmmartin (20 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Or we could leave the club, and its insurance cover, to one side for the time being and people could run and participate rides between friends on a consenting adults basis.


That is a good idea, perhaps we could organise a crossing of France along those lines?


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## mmmmartin (20 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> @mmmmartin may also be a candidate to lead another one


Leading a ride would be a delight. I would love to do that. I am tempted to step forward with firm plans and dates. My heart is fully behind this. And if @dellzeqq and @Agent Hilda were to be on the ride, enjoying it with no responsibilities for a change, then my joy would know no bounds. My head is telling me that with two months in Patagonia in January and February followed by a half-hearted attempt at qualification for PBP, plus a commitment to the expeditions side of the Duke of Edinburgh award for the local school, plus Mountain Leader type expeditions, and on top of all that I might be going back to work (after being thrown on the scrapheap in the prime of life by the brutal capitalist system) then I must beware of having eyes bigger than my belly, as it were.
So I'm going to keep a close eye on plans and help out if I can. Stepping forward with a firm idea now runs the risk of it all going horribly wrong.


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## Flying Dodo (21 Sep 2014)

I've thought of another one.

Cambridge to Oxford (or the other way round). Halfway stop in Milton Keynes.


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> I've thought of another one.
> 
> Cambridge to Oxford (or the other way round). Halfway stop in Milton Keynes.


Milton Keynes? You're going to need plenty of waymarkers for all those roundabouts!


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## rvw (21 Sep 2014)

We have a route map for the BHF Oxford to Cambridge ride somewhere - it was the first long ride we did on the tandem. But it was a solid 90 miles so quite long for a night -- and I think it was pretty much a straight line. The drive-through MacDonalds on the A5 from the first leg of LonJoG would be an alternative to MK, if there isn't a church/scout/voluntary option.


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## redfalo (21 Sep 2014)

What about Reading to Northampton, @AKA Bob, @ianmac62 ?


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## Flying Dodo (21 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> Milton Keynes? You're going to need plenty of waymarkers for all those roundabouts!



I have a route which only involves 8 roundabouts...................


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> I have a route which only involves 8 roundabouts...................


You did well there then!


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## theclaud (21 Sep 2014)

The FNRttC is a particular thing. For me, and for many others, it is, was or has been a special - even life-changing - thing. There's a magic in the idea that is lost when any of its indispensable elements are dispensed with. The Coast element is an indispensable one - there's something joyous about the flight from the city to the seaside at midnight, at the end of the week and the beginning of the weekend. This is one of the reasons I've never been tempted by the SMRbtH, and presumably the reason DZ gave in to the idea that the Welsh ride should travel East to West, against the - ahem - prevailing wind. While there's doubtless much to be said for riding from Reading to Salisbury, or Oxford to Cambridge, I'm not sure it isn't something entirely different to a FNRttC, and better done in the daytime. Having just enjoyed my first non-Fridays-led night ride to the coast, I will certainly be interested if there are other rides to join, and might even offer to run one or two at some point, but I don't think there's any need to try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule. I would favour a more ad-hoc approach than a programme of rides that doesn't have a story or an idea to it.


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> The FNRttC is a particular thing. For me, and for many others, it is, was or has been a special - even life-changing - thing. There's a magic in the idea that is lost when any of its indispensable elements are dispensed with. The Coast element is an indispensable one - there's something joyous about the flight from the city to the seaside at midnight, at the end of the week and the beginning of the weekend. This is one of the reasons I've never been tempted by the SMRbtH, and presumably the reason DZ gave in to the idea that the Welsh ride should travel East to West, against the - ahem - prevailing wind. While there's doubtless much to be said for riding from Reading to Salisbury, or Oxford to Cambridge, I'm not sure it isn't something entirely different to a FNRttC, and better done in the daytime. Having just enjoyed my first non-Fridays-led night ride to the coast, I will certainly be interested if there are other rides to join, and might even offer to run one or two at some point, but I don't think there's any need to try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule. I would favour a more ad-hoc approach than a programme of rides that doesn't have a story or an idea to it.


You'd like my nocturnal IOW loop. Not one but two urban exits (one by ferry, admittedly). Not just to the coast, it's pretty much all coastal. Quieter than a very quiet thing. All the climbing is positively Welsh.


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## Tim Hall (21 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> I have a route which only involves 8 roundabouts...................


You are Leonard Euhler AICM Seven Bridges.


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## theclaud (21 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> You'd like my nocturnal IOW loop. Not one but two urban exits (one by ferry, admittedly). Not just to the coast, it's pretty much all coastal. Quieter than a very quiet thing. *All the climbing is positively Welsh*.



I've always assumed that all the talk about the hilliness of the IOW is just soft southerners making a big fuss.


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## theclaud (21 Sep 2014)

User said:


> it is, maybe but how would I know?


You'll be able to re-assess your position on it after I've invented the Friday Night Ride from Swansea to Aberystwyth.


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> I've always assumed that all the talk about the hilliness of the IOW is just soft southerners making a big fuss.


Nope. According to Strava's elevation figures, the Newport ride last year came to 6,928 ft over 103 miles. The group IOW ride was 4,598 ft in 70.2 miles. Nothing really big, but all manner of other climbing and it never really settles.


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> You'll be able to re-assess your position on it after I've invented the Friday Night Ride from Swansea to Aberystwyth.


Just had a look with Bikehike (OSM cycle routing). The route it came up with: 75 miles, 7,500 ft of climbing, three sections over 20% and an awful lot of other very nasty gradients. Yup, you've won that argument.....


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## StuAff (21 Sep 2014)

User said:


> You concede too easily.


Feel free to do a test ride on my behalf......


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## srw (21 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> I would favour a more ad-hoc approach than a programme of rides that doesn't have a story or an idea to it.


Other stories exist.

The dream of the spires. The search for the concrete cows. The celebration of the country lane. The joy comes from the fugue state in which the story is experienced, not necessarily for the destination. Or, to put it another way, it's less about the getting _there_ than about the _geting_ there.


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## theclaud (22 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Other stories exist.
> 
> The dream of the spires. The search for the concrete cows. The celebration of the country lane. The joy comes from the fugue state in which the story is experienced, not necessarily for the destination. Or, to put it another way, it's less about the getting _there_ than about the _geting_ there.


Yes I can see that there are other stories, but they are perhaps not best served by conjuring things up to fill an FNRttC-shaped space.


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## Siclo (22 Sep 2014)

Andrew Br said:


> I'll be happy to repeat the Manchester-Morecambe ride or I could look for a better destination although I don't know where yet.
> 
> .



I have an interest in this please, I'm sure you can guess which date. 

Disclaimer: No obligations


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## redfalo (22 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> The FNRttC is a particular thing. For me, and for many others, it is, was or has been a special - even life-changing - thing. There's a magic in the idea that is lost when any of its indispensable elements are dispensed with. The Coast element is an indispensable one - there's something joyous about the flight from the city to the seaside at midnight, at the end of the week and the beginning of the weekend. This is one of the reasons I've never been tempted by the SMRbtH, and presumably the reason DZ gave in to the idea that the Welsh ride should travel East to West, against the - ahem - prevailing wind. While there's doubtless much to be said for riding from Reading to Salisbury, or Oxford to Cambridge, I'm not sure it isn't something entirely different to a FNRttC, and better done in the daytime. Having just enjoyed my first non-Fridays-led night ride to the coast, I will certainly be interested if there are other rides to join, and might even offer to run one or two at some point, but I don't think there's any need to try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule. I would favour a more ad-hoc approach than a programme of rides that doesn't have a story or an idea to it.



I have to say I disagree on several points. For my part, I don't really care about the coast, and my feeling is it rarely gets a lot of attention by most riders. I also neither need a "story" nor an "idea". Riding through the night with very nice people is good enough for me. Without @dellzeqq, I would never have realized how enjoyable night riding is and I would have never met an amazing number of amazingly nice people, some of whom I nowadays consider good friends.

I don't think the idea of this thread it to "try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule". I feel there is a general consensus that no night ride on any Friday night to any effing coast will ever be a "Friday Night Ride to the Coast", unless it is led by DZ. Most of the 2015 night rides will be more of an ad-hoc thing, probably lacking a civilised half-way stop as well as meticulous night recces, and I think they will also lack a "story" other than "let's get on our bikes at midnight".

There is some merits in Adrian's idea to just do them without any fuss about a club and insurance issues. As I have pointed out earlier in this thread, the fundamental problem with such kind of stuff is that at least I would be very hesitant to announce such kind of rides in a public forum because some routes - in particular London to Brighton - seem to be in high demand with non-regular Friday's members. I would not feel confident to lead a night ride with 30 or 50 people, many of them potentially lacking insurance and even a name. This year has sadly shown that tragic things can happen on a night ride, and you have to know who is on the ride. 

I think it would be nice to keep at least some rides open for non-regulars. (Actually, for me, the inclusiveness of the FNRttCs rather than the coast or the story is really indispensable.

Another advantage of having a schedule of rides is that it makes planning easier for people who want to come on the ride. I'm not really sure what you have in mind when you suggest an "ad-hoc approach", but setting a date for a ride 2 or 3 months in advance, sticking to the date and trying not to have competing rides on identical dates is crucial, from my point of view.


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## Flying Dodo (22 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> The FNRttC is a particular thing. For me, and for many others, it is, was or has been a special - even life-changing - thing. There's a magic in the idea that is lost when any of its indispensable elements are dispensed with. The Coast element is an indispensable one - there's something joyous about the flight from the city to the seaside at midnight, at the end of the week and the beginning of the weekend. This is one of the reasons I've never been tempted by the SMRbtH, and presumably the reason DZ gave in to the idea that the Welsh ride should travel East to West, against the - ahem - prevailing wind. While there's doubtless much to be said for riding from Reading to Salisbury, or Oxford to Cambridge, I'm not sure it isn't something entirely different to a FNRttC, and better done in the daytime. Having just enjoyed my first non-Fridays-led night ride to the coast, I will certainly be interested if there are other rides to join, and might even offer to run one or two at some point, but I don't think there's any need to try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule. I would favour a more ad-hoc approach than a programme of rides that doesn't have a story or an idea to it.



I see where you're coming from, but I tend to agree with srw, the coast itself isn't the raison d'être, although it's a nice plus, especially when there are some gems we've been to. However, there's also the issue that things change and even last year DZ was trying to get people to consider what the FNRttC could evolve into.

Night rides are themselves a special thing, and if we collectively can come up with new routes, especially ones you wouldn't want to look at during the day, then that's got to be a good thing.


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## frank9755 (22 Sep 2014)

Yes - I thought that what @theclaud said was a tiny bit vacuous, but the bit about FNRttC being life-changing did hit the spot for me! 

I've done rather a lot of non-Fridays night rides since my first on that epic, wet and windy struggle down to Brighton in March 2010. Most of them have had their own stories, and several have even had far stronger stories than my FNRttCs have. For example,
- the 2010 Dunwich Dynamo, riding with a dozen others from Cyclechat with @stevevw sorting out the halfway and arrive catering in fine fashion,
- My return on PBP, sweeping across northern France and being cheered throuh villages at 3am whilst wondering how far I could keep going
- A ride in Scotland, starting by the Forth Bridge and having breakfast on the west coast
- Solitary night loop round Snowdonia on Bryan Chapman
- 24 hour time trial, etc, etc

These all had much stronger stories for me, but hardly any could come close in terms of company, camaraderie and inclusiveness. That is what I think the FNRttC is mainly about. Could a programme of rides organised by others provide that? While it would never come close to matching what Simon has built up over 9 years into one of the very finest things in cycling, I think it could.

Edit - If I had to sum up FNRttC in one line it would be 'enabling ordinary people to do something extraordinary'


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## StuartG (22 Sep 2014)

I do care a about the story @redfalo. I am with @theclaud. It was the challenge of doing all the impossibles - night riding to the coast in company that moved me from a casual rider to one who has horizons shifted galactically.

Whilst we all wish DZ would continue unchanged - a rest is also an opportunity to reflect on whether that would be best. The basic FNRttC has already borne some siblings - The three tours, the FNRttK. Ian's ride home. What was impossible we found to be very possible and now we want even more impossible things to do. We should be looking to build on the experience - not to simply replicate it. There are more exciting rides and acronyms to be found.

I with you @redfalo that introducing newbies to the experience was the key to FNRttC. As it grew - and I've done over 40 of them - dare I say as it became steadily bigger that most of the group got to know and greet each other like the friends they were. However un-cliquey and welcoming we tried to be - our very numbers and familiarity may be a bit too much and it was in danger of losing its true purpose - taking people to a place they had never been by a method they would never have contemplated. "Been there, Done it" was showing through too many shirt tops.

Spires by day, Continental Capitals by weekend or whatever - we who have done it should be moving on and thinking about a new generation of newbie FNRttC-ers with just enough experienced people to wayfind, tec and add encouragement to make it a success with the occasional reunion/nostalgia ride for the beer. Newbies who will follow us on to greater things. 

It is just 5 years since my first ride, terrified, to Southend. That will always be the greatest ride. It can't be replicated by me but it is an experience we should help DZ to give to others. It needs an experience, research, dedication, raw nerve, charisma and much more which we can't just patch on to the post FNRttC experience. Be careful of trying.


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## Flying Dodo (22 Sep 2014)

frank9755 said:


> Yes - I thought that what @theclaud said was a tiny bit vacuous






It's been nice knowing you Frank. I'd be careful next time you're in Wales...........


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## uphillstruggler (22 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> Milton Keynes? You're going to need plenty of waymarkers for all those roundabouts!



if you follow the BHF route on this one, you don't go over any roundabouts - ive done the ride a few times and I live in MK so would be happy to help in any way possible.

and I have insurance (if that helps)


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## hatler (22 Sep 2014)

We've got to be careful we don't spend too long looking at our collective umbilicuses (umbilici ?) And yet I am conscious that by contributing to this thread I am adding to the gazing.

Aside from anything else we have to beware of the maxim that if you put five cyclists in a room and ask for their views on anything you will get six views back (as a minimum).

What are the essential ingredients of the existing FNRttC arrangement ? Feel free to add/remove/discuss or even amend the essentiality (!) of any item.

The welcome extended to all
The in-ride Organisation (and it really does deserve a capital 'O')
Careful selection of routes, destinations and watering stops
The novelty of riding through the night (which still seems like a novelty after all this time, which is surely contradictory).
Sticking together and the support given to those who might find things harder than others
Ending up at the coast (I do _like_ the seaside)
The conversations
Those are all things that any ride with a similar aim in mind (what is that aim anyone ?) should absolutely strive for.

We should, as a random assemblage of riders, consider ourselves very fortunate that someone as (DZ - please look away) inspirational/mad/persistent as Simon was daft enough to kick this one off in the first place and then have the time and wherewithal to stick with it for this long. I don't think it reasonable of us to expect anyone to do it in the exact same way as Simon.

Not even sure of where I am heading with this one so I'd better stop there before I start rambling or contradicting myself. Not sure if this really adds much either.


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## theclaud (22 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> I have to say I disagree on several points. For my part, I don't really care about the coast, and my feeling is it rarely gets a lot of attention by most riders. I also neither need a "story" nor an "idea". Riding through the night with very nice people is good enough for me. Without @dellzeqq, I would never have realized how enjoyable night riding is and I would have never met an amazing number of amazingly nice people, some of whom I nowadays consider good friends.
> 
> I don't think the idea of this thread it to "try and squeeze other rides into the same model in order to replicate the FNRttC schedule". I feel there is a general consensus that no night ride on any Friday night to any effing coast will ever be a "Friday Night Ride to the Coast", unless it is led by DZ. Most of the 2015 night rides will be more of an ad-hoc thing, probably lacking a civilised half-way stop as well as meticulous night recces, and I think they will also lack a "story" other than "let's get on our bikes at midnight".
> 
> ...



Fairy nuff! I agree about the inclusiveness, though definitely not about the coast! I'm just thinking aloud, really. By ad-hoc, I meant that they are likely to be various in character according to who plans and leads them, and there may be no need to agree to a way of doing things that applies to all at this stage - some might be small and informal, others might require more organization. It goes without saying that the FNRttC model is to be emulated, but I think its influence is finding its way into all kinds of rides anyway. There are people in Carmarthenshire who have never heard of the FNRttC, who probably by now imagine they thought of the rolling-waymarkers-released-by-TECs system! Not to mention the rash of overpriced charity FNRttC imitators!


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## Ollie W (22 Sep 2014)

Is it OK to put my opinion forward, as an outsider looking in who's yet to join your rides? I hope so.

There are many reasons why I love reading the FNR threads, even if there's little to no chance I'll be at that ride. The witty repartee is one, and the ride reports and pictures too. The camaraderie is another, from the really friendly posts to the chapeaus (and I'm sure the conversation on the actual ride is great too!). The fact that such friendliness is given out not just to those you've known for years but also to those who are brand new, wet behind the ears and asking questions. Despite my thick questions (and ignorance about the future of the FNRs) in the Reading to Lymington thread you were patient and answered my questions. I don't think I know of any community quite like that which you guys (in particular DZ) have created. Personally the thought of riding such a distance scares me a little but I knew, signing up for a ride that wasn't even a Fridays ride, that I'd be welcomed and helped along the way. I read the threads thinking how inspiring it is to see riders of all ages and sizes enjoying themselves together, and how much I'd like to be part of it.

The routes certainly help. I can understand both arguments for and against the coast, and while I think I'd also appreciate any particularly interesting rural areas (my favourite ride so far was the New Forest circular Skyride that I did), the seaside is an incredible sight to hit at the end of an epic journey, especially those bits of coastline not so usually frequented. Having a proper midway stop adds to it for me too. That said, I'd be happy to help recce any potential new rides - Basingstoke to Bournemouth, maybe? From horrible urban jungle to beautiful timeless seaside (in that it's stuck in the 60s!)...

Anyway, tl:dr:

- The FNRttCs are an inspiration to those of us who aren't quite as experienced in cycling. Please, please, do remember us newbies (though I'm sure you will). It's a great challenge to set one's self.
- Your camaraderie and friendship, from ride inception to chapeau, is encouraging in an internet full of trolls and flamers (OK, I'm a nerd, I use these words).
- Keep at the rides you know and love, but don't be afraid to throw a curve ball in now and again if it's properly researched.

I've had a pretty rotten weekend, from narrowly missing out on Friday to my bike being nicked, but thinking about getting my bike back/my insurance bike and joining you guys is brightening it up a bit. I hope that's not too soppy/sad for a forum like this!


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## hatler (22 Sep 2014)

frank9755 said:


> I've done rather a lot of non-Fridays night rides since my first on that epic, wet and windy struggle down to Brighton in March 2010.
> <snip>
> Edit - If I had to sum up FNRttC in one line it would be 'enabling ordinary people to do something extraordinary'


Was that March 2010 ride the one with the hail storm just after the Beacon ?

And I like that quote of yours.


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## slowmotion (22 Sep 2014)

I'm another big fan of ending at the sea. I like the idea of reaching a destination where you really can't go any further. In a strange way it makes the goal a bit more special. That said, I'm up for any ride that isn't too fast or long and allows people to catch up. I would be delighted and thankful to join them. I wish I could do more to help but I don't think it would work to be leading from the back of the peleton. As @User13710 hinted, the FNRttCs have changed my life and I'm hugely grateful to Simon and his helpers for that. 
Chapeau!


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2014)

It's not about the coast, it's not about the destination or the start. It's about the build-up, the anticipation, the weather forecasting, the readily accessible 'in-jokes', the preparation, the arrival at the start, the buzz that builds, friends - those known and those as yet unknown, the depart, the journey, the stops, the road, the sights, the sounds, the places unknown, the shared experience, the small-wheeled, fast wheeled, steady wheeled, old wheeled, rolling along in close orchestrated harmony, the art of the TEC, and the wayfinders, the warmth of experience cosseting your adventure, the changes of temperature, the warmth of the dawn, the arrival, the food, the beer, the bonhomie, the sadness, the over-ness, the way home, the ride report, the memories, the shared experience, that desire to repeat, that longing again for the warmth, to belong again.


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## StuAff (22 Sep 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> It's not about the coast, it's not about the destination or the start. It's about the build-up, the anticipation, the weather forecasting, the readily accessible 'in-jokes', the preparation, the arrival at the start, the buzz that builds, friends - those known and those as yet unknown, the depart, the journey, the stops, the road, the sights, the sounds, the places unknown, the shared experience, the small-wheeled, fast wheeled, steady wheeled, old wheeled, rolling along in close orchestrated harmony, the art of the TEC, and the wayfinders, the warmth of experience cosseting your adventure, the changes of temperature, the warmth of the dawn, the arrival, the food, the beer, the bonhomie, the sadness, the over-ness, the way home, the ride report, the memories, the shared experience, that desire to repeat, that longing again for the warmth, to belong again.


You didn't mention rain


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## Fab Foodie (22 Sep 2014)

StuAff said:


> You didn't mention rain


I hoped I'd get away with it!


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## Tim Hall (22 Sep 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> It's not about the coast, it's not about the destination or the start. It's about the build-up, the anticipation, the weather forecasting, the readily accessible 'in-jokes', the preparation, the arrival at the start, the buzz that builds, friends - those known and those as yet unknown, the depart, the journey, the stops, the road, the sights, the sounds, the places unknown, the shared experience, the small-wheeled, fast wheeled, steady wheeled, old wheeled, rolling along in close orchestrated harmony, the art of the TEC, and the wayfinders, the warmth of experience cosseting your adventure, the changes of temperature, the warmth of the dawn, the arrival, the food, the beer, the bonhomie, the sadness, the over-ness, the way home, the ride report, the memories, the shared experience, that desire to repeat, that longing again for the warmth, to belong again.


You mean...
Choose bikes. Choose a cake. Choose a Colnago. Choose The Fridays. Choose a f***ing big memorial arch. Choose track pumps, tyres, inner tubes and CO2 inflators. Choose beer, bread pudding and third party cover. Choose fixed gear. Choose a bungalow. Choose your friends. Choose lycra and matching buffs. Choose a triplet in a range of delightful colours. Choose TEC and wondering where the waymarkers are in the early hours of Saturday morning. Choose sitting in a cafe, eating the finest breakfast money can buy. Choose falling asleep standing up. Choose the next ride. And the next. But why would I want to do thing like that? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got the Friday Night Ride to the Coast

(An ill favoured thing, but mine own. And repeated)


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## srw (23 Sep 2014)

I don't think I've pushed the Like button so often for ages.

For me, the point about next year is to experiment. To find out what works and what doesn't. To find out what's essential about The Fridays (the finest cycling club in the world) and what isn't.

I'd hazard a guess that the essential will include some or all of inclusiveness, welcomingness, night, Organisation, remeniscence, participation on a non-compulsory basis, caring and beer (or cider). The inessential will include night, beer (or cider), the coast, London, and probably even cycling.


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## Trickedem (23 Sep 2014)

If anyone is interested in a joint venture organising a night ride to Whitstable please let me know. Our half way stop venue and team would be available.


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## RhythMick (23 Sep 2014)

Andrew Br said:


> I'll be happy to repeat the Manchester-Morecambe ride or I could look for a better destination although I don't know where yet.
> 
> .


I'm in if it fits with work


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## RhythMick (23 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> ... if anyone is stepping up to the task of organising a York/Hull/Other E Yorkshire ride, for next year then I’m happy to do some recce riding, or other practical helping, as I visit there quite frequently. Laziness, lack of commitment, living at the other end of the country and fear of all the bureaucratic stuff above preclude me from volunteering to organise it myself.



I'll plan an overnight ride somewhere around south Yorkshire / east coast. It will be around 100 miles ish and will involve breakfast. I'll post the route and rough timings.

If others fancy riding along or (more likely) feel I might need support then they'll be very welcome.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Sep 2014)

RhythMick said:


> I'll plan an overnight ride somewhere around south Yorkshire / east coast. It will be around 100 miles ish and will involve breakfast. I'll post the route and rough timings.
> 
> If others fancy riding along or (more likely) feel I might need support then they'll be very welcome.


Interesting. When I'm in the area I'm based in Driffield (family there).


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## mmmmartin (23 Sep 2014)

Trickedem said:


> If anyone is interested in a joint venture organising a night ride to Whitstable please let me know. Our half way stop venue and team would be available.


I'm in.
Deffo.
BUT I have a lot on next year and will be away in all of January and February. Shall we fix a date now and just do it?


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## mmmmartin (23 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> I'm in.
> Deffo


Sorry to be so brutal and short. I'm aware I should have written a thousand words of introspection but I'm a bit of a thicko.


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## mmmmartin (23 Sep 2014)

May 1? Get it the diary now?
Thoughts?


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## ianrauk (23 Sep 2014)

Trickedem said:


> If anyone is interested in a joint venture organising a night ride to Whitstable please let me know. Our half way stop venue and team would be available.




Yep, as I said above, count me in.


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## StuAff (23 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> May 1? Get it the diary now?
> Thoughts?


FNRttK might be that weekend- @swarm_catcher ran both the previous ones then.


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Sep 2014)

User said:


> That wouldn't tick the inclusivity box.


I'll throw in here. As a newcomer part of what made the FNRttC's seem like something I could do was that they came with a solid level of expectation. From reading previous reports there were things that I could just presume, the route planning, not being dropped, the pace, the Organisation, food would be eaten. Those could be taken for granted because the whole thing was being run by a benign dictatorship and time had been spent refining everything to make it as good as it could be at that point.

2015 is a bit of a test year, @dellzeqq is taking a well deserved break from being the shoulders that everything else rests on and people are stepping up to make sure that the experience doesn't disappear too. This is good.

While part of the joy of it all is a sense of anarchic madness, there's some smoke and mirrors there that make it so. In a year where the waters are being tested it might be worth accepting that some of that illusion might best be dropped. So a schedule makes sense (in fact, for insurance purposes is necessary). I'd also suggest that a brief set of statements identifying the ride also makes sense, so that people can tell how close to their expectations the ride is going to be. After my first FNRttC we tried a group ride out with one of our local shops. They'd met us a number of times, we've bought a few bikes from them, we've made no secret of how we ride and our fitness levels. They were welcoming, comforting, absolutely definite that they never dropped a rider, positive we'd love their slow group. We lasted around half a kilometre. They got to the first incline, obviously didn't consider it a hill, raced up it while one of our number slowed down somewhat (they plod hills and make up time on the flat) and we never saw them again. Currently their website is advertising their next outing, it happily states they never drop a rider...

So, I'd suggest you need to state distance, midway stop quality, destination type (is it the coast for those geographically challenged!) pace (or maybe expected ride time to first stop and last stop), TEC's present, Waymarker present, the number of riders you're working on. Some sort of quantifiable hilliness rating. First timer friendly. That sort of thing. The rides that are replicating existing FNRttC routes should be easy to write up and based on that new routes could be written up.

This isn't about arguing over what is or isn't a ride. That way lies divisive madness. To help the people you want along, and to prove you've thought things through for this year at least, I think it would help if we showed our working a little.


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## redfalo (23 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> Is it just my heart that is sinking a bit?



Your're not alone, TNM. Another Friday's essential that has not been mentioned so far is lack of red tape and bureaucracy.


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## ianrauk (23 Sep 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> So, I'd suggest you need to state distance, midway stop quality, destination type (is it the coast for those geographically challenged!) pace (or maybe expected ride time to first stop and last stop), TEC's present, Waymarker present, the number of riders you're working on. Some sort of quantifiable hilliness rating. First timer friendly. That sort of thing. The rides that are replicating existing FNRttC routes should be easy to write up and based on that new routes could be written up.



Forget all this and let those who know worry about it and get things moving. People who have put their names forward to lead and organise rides have been doing the FNR's for many years, they know how it works and knows what's what. The rides will be based on the usual FNR's and worked on the same way.


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I hope you gave them some feedback.



I will, when I'm happy to go back in there. This was early August, partly I've had no reason to go back to the shop since, partly I'm still a bit angry at them, my biggest problem is that they took contact numbers for us, but made no attempt to check that we were OK, or make any kind of explanation for it. Even a simple text would have been something. I know it's being grumpy over good manners but having spent in excess of £4k with them over the last 18 months or so you'd have thought at least good customer relations would have come in to it somewhere.



User13710 said:


> Is it just my heart that is sinking a bit?



Yeah, I know, sorry to be a downer and all and I'll not be surprised if I'm ignored. I just know how easy it is to slip in to being unintentionally isolationist when you have a small hobby primarily enjoyed by a single group of people. I guess it all depends on which bit of the experience is the most important. The point of my ramble about my other experience is that it's very easy to think that you're ticking all the boxes and miss the fact that you aren't.


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## hatler (23 Sep 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> The point of my ramble about my other experience is that it's very easy to think that you're ticking all the boxes and miss the fact that you aren't.



That is a good point. It's very easy for the regulars (or anyone reading the threads here) to think that the whole shebang is an all round wonderful experience for absolutely everybody concerned, when it might not be. And if the overwhelming tide here is that everything is wonderful, it does make it harder for anyone with a negative tale to pipe up.

Conscious that I might be stepping into murky waters here (which might be construed as accusatory or something, which is not my intention), but given that I think Simon has something like a 1000 people on his mailing list, how is it that 1000 people don't turn up for every ride if they are as wonderful as I find them to be.

And there we have the answer. We're all different. (<Python>"I'm not"). Some give it a go and decide it's not for them, or perhaps not more than once in a while. Others thrive and find a spiritual home. Unsurprisingly it is the people who enjoy it who become the regulars, and it is their collective 'spirit' (I can't think of a better word though I am sure there is one, possibly a German one) which pervades the rides. It seems to be a spirit which does attract others though.

Again, I don't know where I'm going ...


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## swansonj (23 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> Is it just my heart that is sinking a bit?


Is not part of the genius of Simon that he does in fact have all those things in place, but with the rest of us being hardly aware of it? "Hypnocracy" as you rightly say. The Fridays would not attract (some) newcomers if those things were not in place; the Fridays would not be as attractive to regulars if those things were obtrusive.


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> An email the day after would have been the most effective response perhaps.


From either of us, yes. I'm sure it'll be ignored by all parties the next time I go in, the group rides are academic now anyway as they're new announcement for it also stipulates helmets are mandatory, I honestly can't remember if we were wearing them or not when we turned up but thanks to this place <points at Cycle Chat> I'm a bit more sensitive to that kind of decree now.



User13710 said:


> Are you hinting that there is a problem with the night rides?



No (I'm not actually sure if you are allowed to suggest that and get out without being tarred & feathered :-) ). The reason for my post was as I quoted initially the concept that a suggested ride was 'invalid'. In order to be invalid you need a set structure to test it against. As I can't see creating a set structure and then measuring suggested rides against it as being in keeping with the Fridays ideal I thought I'd throw in a suggestion to counter the idea of being able to state rides couldn't count.

If I think the rides might have a problem, then I guess I'm not sure they feel as inclusive as they want to feel. Kai and I have both told my wife we don't think that she is ready to try one based on our experiences. She needs more miles in her legs before she gives Southend a go basically. You've actually touched on the sense that the rides might not be as new to cycling friendly as they would like to be in the past in previous posts. This may of course be a self fulfilling prophecy, it's difficult to tell if someone is being seriously challenged by the ride if they are well looked after, it's possible that the sense that all the participants are of a minimum standard is an illusion but if it is it's a good one. I'm not seeing needing to get my wife cycling more before she gives a FNRttC a try as a problem with the rides, it's much more an issue of where she is with cycling at the moment.


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> Well, I don't think anyone said a ride was 'invalid'. It was more that an extreme distance is by definition less inclusive than a shorter one.



True, my interpretation. Not necessarily a fair one.



User13710 said:


> But that's what you seem to be saying too, about your wife. Perhaps 100 miles would be too much for her, although I'm sure she could speak for herself. It's not about minimum cycling 'standards', it's about experience, and the Southend ride is absolutely the ideal one for 'beginners', in that it's short and pretty flat. It would be great if your wife decided to give it a try.



I'd love her to do a Southend ride too, we're building up to it slowly, the commuting has fallen by the wayside a bit of late but will hopefully start up again soon and we'll do some ride outs and take it from there. At the moment the Southend ride would be a lot more than she's done in a 'single sitting' and if not actually too much for her, too much for her to enjoy doing. I know I can over think it and worry unnecessarily, which was why I checked with Kai that it wasn't the case. In fact, I asked Kai's thoughts before voicing mine. As an upside, she collected us from Whitstable and got to meet some people at the end of the ride for breakfast and the Fridays were given a thumbs up as a likeable bunch, which is a big step in the right direction. My hope is that I'll convince her to do a Southend (or possibly Whitstable) ride in 2015.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> Your're not alone, TNM. Another Friday's essential that has not been mentioned so far is lack of red tape and bureaucracy.


 Lack of _*visible *_red tape. As the serene swan that is the Fridays glided over the surface, I'm sure its legs were paddling frantically, powered by DZ.


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## wanda2010 (23 Sep 2014)

@Ollie W 

Sorry to hear about your bike and I look forward to meeting you on a ride (whatever it will be called) in the not too distant future


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## velovoice (23 Sep 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> At the moment the Southend ride would be a lot more than she's done in a 'single sitting' and if not actually too much for her, too much for her to enjoy doing.


May I respond to that bit?

I think quite a few of us who are now regulars really struggled and suffered on our first... second... third FNRttC. Maybe more. 

A a ride doesn't have to be 100% undiluted physical pleasure to nonetheless be enjoyable, memorable, a source of price and something to be repeated. In fact, I'd say it's only in over-extending yourself, even "biting off more than you can chew" (by observers' standards) that confidence can grow. 

So your wife hasn't done 60 miles before. Has she done 10? Has she done two rides over the course of one week, with each one being 10 miles? (A rule of thumb I've heard repeated many times is: take the longest ride you've done in the recent past - you can double it and do okay. Another one: take your weekly riding total - you can do that in a single ride without too much suffering.)

If she wants to do Southend, I'll bet she can do it. The challenges will be (a) sleep deprivation, and (2) time in the saddle. Sure, those have physical components, but in actuality they're mental challenges more than they're physical ones. 

(Unless of course her bike is totally the wrong size and actually hurts her to ride. That's different. But whatever she's used to riding, she can ride on a FNRttC. Just ask me, @User13710 , @AnythingButVanilla what bikes we did our first FNRttCs with!!) 

And it's always possible to make a Plan B - there are nearly always bail out options that nonetheless would give her an opportunity to take part, to taste, get a feel for whether she might like this kind of thing. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't put limits on another person's ambitions. And I speak as someone who truly believed for at least my first 2 FNRttCs that I had absolutely no business being there. But Simon thought I did, or at least gave me time and further chances to _prove to *myself*_ (not him, not anybody else) that I did.

Just my tuppence' worth.


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## velovoice (23 Sep 2014)

velovoice said:


> Just ask me, @User13710 , @AnythingButVanilla what bikes we did our first FNRttCs with!!)



Actually, I am thinking of doing the "last" FNRttC in November on that same bike. For old time's sake.


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## StuartG (23 Sep 2014)

velovoice said:


> Actually, I am thinking of doing the "last" FNRttC in November on that same bike. For old time's sake.


<---- There's mine from the 2009 Southend. I'll dig it out and polish it up to. It deserves it.
(A 1979 Dawes Galaxy for our younger readers).


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## w00hoo_kent (23 Sep 2014)

velovoice said:


> May I respond to that bit?
> So your wife hasn't done 60 miles before. Has she done 10? Has she done two rides over the course of one week, with each one being 10 miles? (A rule of thumb I've heard repeated many times is: take the longest ride you've done in the recent past - you can double it and do okay. Another one: take your weekly riding total - you can do that in a single ride without too much suffering.)


When we ride we tend to do between 20 and 30 miles, with a good stop for lunch in there somewhere and average around 10mph, last year when we were doing this a couple of times a month the average crept up a bit, but this isn't anything with what a Fridays ride would consider hills in it. Her commute is about 6 miles each way on at worst rolling hills (but I think most people here would class it as flat) and she probably averages a little higher over it but she hasn't done it for a couple of weeks and I think has ridden once (around 20 miles) since the middle of August when we did the freecycle. So at the moment she isn't coming close to 60 miles a week.

That aside, we'll be celebrating our 22nd wedding anniversary at the bike show (could end up expensive but as yet she isn't havering for an N+1 which is handy...) and I've got to know her pretty well over those two decades. If she's going to do two Fridays runs (and I'd like her to get the bug and come along for various reasons, not least because they are great) then she'll need to finish her first run. If she gets home having baled partway without a mechanical reason, or she gets home feeling that she's slowed everyone else down and held them back then that is likely to be that (note, feeling. It doesn't have to actually be having done any of that). Believe me, a little preparation at this end will pay dividends at the other.

I've tried not to slip off topic with my asides, but have firmly jumped there with this. I'm happy to continue chatting in a Conversation if people want to go further with this, but I don't want to derail an important discussion and I don't want to go any further with this particular diversion in the public domain.


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## velovoice (23 Sep 2014)

Well, to be fair, I may have been stretching it by saying "same bike"... 

As per October 2010 FNRttC to Southend



As per 100 Mile Smile Ride last weekend:


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## Flying Dodo (23 Sep 2014)

velovoice said:


> Well, to be fair, I may have been stretching it by saying "same bike"...
> 
> As per October 2010 FNRttC to Southend
> View attachment 57178
> ...



And next month, after adding new wheels, new front & rear dérailleurs, new handlebars, new shifters and new crankset, I think that leaves the frame and the mudguards as being the same as 2010.


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## velovoice (23 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> And next month, after adding new wheels, new front & rear dérailleurs, new handlebars, new shifters and new crankset, I think that leaves the frame and the mudguards as being the same as 2010.


sshhhhhhhhh!


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## ianrauk (23 Sep 2014)

I remember that bike


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## rb58 (23 Sep 2014)

I'm going to ramble, so humour me.

Even the things that appear beautifully casual (such as the FNRttC) will often have been orchestrated. However, it seems to me the trick is not to overthink things otherwise perspective can be lost. I'd hate it if that happened to the FNRttC and we lost the essence of the ride. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done properly. It should. 

The FNRttC means different things to different people, and trying to capture that in a meaningful way for all of us through some kind of vision will be really challenging, if not impossible. I'd prefer it to remain a framework within which we all take our various and different meaning - whether we be hard-core regulars, or complete newbies.

@Trickedem I'm very happy to help with a Whitstable ride, and agree with @mmmmartin that we should name a date and get on with it, in tried and tested style.


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## BalkanExpress (23 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> And next month, after adding new wheels, new front & rear dérailleurs, new handlebars, new shifters and new crankset, I think that leaves the frame and the mudguards as being the same as 2010.




Mudguards


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## StuAff (23 Sep 2014)

Might I suggest May 8? Leaves previous weekend clear for Belgium (fingers crossed).


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## User10571 (23 Sep 2014)

rb58 said:


> I'm going to ramble, so humour me.
> 
> Even the things that appear beautifully casual (such as the FNRttC) will often have been orchestrated. However, it seems to me *the trick is not to overthink things* otherwise perspective can be lost. I'd hate it if that happened to the FNRttC and we lost the essence of the ride. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done properly. It should.
> 
> ...



The trick, IME experience, of banging these out, in the delightful company of the likes of DZ, Adrian, Adam and a few choice others, is to make it *look* like it has not been overthought.
The fact remains that most of the Friday Night rides anyone has been on, have been overthought to within an inch of their lives. 
Which, I think, accounts for their success.


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## rb58 (23 Sep 2014)

User10571 said:


> The trick, IME experience, of banging these out, in the delightful company of the likes of DZ, Adrian, Adam and a few choice others, is to make it *look* like it has not been overthought.
> The fact remains that most of the Friday Night rides anyone has been on, have been overthought to within an inch of their lives.
> Which, I think, accounts for their success.


Completely agree. I was referring not to the organisation of the ride, but their purpose.


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## StuAff (23 Sep 2014)

User10571 said:


> The trick, IME experience, of banging these out, in the delightful company of the likes of DZ, Adrian, Adam and a few choice others, is to make it *look* like it has not been overthought.
> The fact remains that most of the Friday Night rides anyone has been on, have been overthought to within an inch of their lives.
> Which, I think, accounts for their success.


I can only agree. For the IOW run I did two recces (one solo day, night in the company of Adam), plus needed to play close attention to road closures etc which could have meant last minute changes.


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## User10571 (23 Sep 2014)

User said:


> So what we need is one person to over think each one, so the rest of us can pretend it just occurs.


No.
I think it has been shown to take more than one person to over think.
The combined effort of several others (yourself included) has helped.
The remainder don't need to know.


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## Trickedem (23 Sep 2014)

Ok, after some offline discussion, we are going to claim 1st May for the Whitstable night ride. I will start a separate thread.


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## mmmmartin (23 Sep 2014)

Hurrah!
Am v keen to help this one and make it a success


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## mmmmartin (23 Sep 2014)

Um - a late thought gallops into my head......
Is the lovely @swarm_catcher going to want this for the really rather lovely Brussels to Ostend ride?
The date is fixed by her mum's birthday if I remember correctly.
The ride is wonderful and ought to be supported.


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## DancingDad (23 Sep 2014)

I'm a relative newbie, joining my first FNR just a year ago (to Southend, when we encountered that light shower along the way). After racking up a mere seven or eight rides since then, I was pretty dismayed when I discovered that next year's calendar was uncertain – though I certainly don't blame Simon for wanting a break. As a newcomer I may not know the gang so well and have not joined the conversation here before either but I've enjoyed the atmosphere on the rides as well as the routes taken, the care taken and the views taken in with the dawn. Each ride has been something to plan for and look forward to. I'd like to continue in the same vein next year too. I have no experience of planning or organising a ride but I'm more than happy to contribute in any way I can. And I do enjoy looking out across the sea while eating my breakfast bangers but I'll settle for anywhere that's congenial and involves a nice route. Onward and upward (but not too much upward and a bit of downward is also nice).


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## ianmac62 (24 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> What about Reading to Northampton, @AKA Bob, @ianmac62 ?



I've been so busy hitting the "like" button at so many thoughtful contributions to this thread that I'd forgotten @redfalo's question.

Reading to Northampton would be very pleasant. I certainly know the roads from Aylesbury to Northampton; and doing a recce of that half would be a pleasure.

There would be no spires to aim for - Northampton is decidedly a town and not a city - but the town furthest from the sea in England (now there's a theme reversal) has a "lighthouse" which, at over 125 metres in height and overlooking both the football and rugby grounds, we would see through the early dawn.

There is a Wetherspoons in the town centre, The Cordwainer (shoemaker), with breakfasts from 8.00 a.m. with fast service, free coffee refills, and large toilets. It is near the Guildhall (the masterpiece of E W Godwin) and 78 Derngate (the only house in England with an interior by Charles Rennie Macintosh).

There are three trains an hour on Saturday mornings to Euston. Cycles are carried without the need for reservations.


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## RhythMick (24 Sep 2014)

User said:


> That wouldn't tick the inclusivity box.


What would? 

I've not done any of the FNRs so I've nothing to base it on except my desire to increase the number of imperial centuries I've done (currently 2 including the Exmouth Exodus). Overnight seems a good time to do them as it's pointless getting to the destination to easily and worrying around for a train. Or for a cafe to open. 

That said I'm up for whatever. I liked the EE and like group riding.


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## RhythMick (24 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> May 1? Get it the diary now?
> Thoughts?


Think May 1st seems to have been reserved for another ride but I wonder if that matters? How many people doing the other (southern) ride would also have wanted to head to Yorkshire? 

So yeah I'm up for an overnight ride May 1st weekend. What distance?


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## rvw (24 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> May 1? Get it the diary now?
> Thoughts?


I'd be disappointed as we'll be unavailable that weekend (for a work do for @srw so we shan't be able to get out of it) and I missed the last one. But if that's when suits most, so be it!


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## User482 (24 Sep 2014)

RhythMick said:


> That said I'm up for whatever. I liked the EE and like group riding.



I like the Exmouth Exodus too, but I think it's a different sort of ride to the FNRttC - it's more of an audax really with participants expected to find their own way from a route sheet, and definitely not a group ride. And the distance is challenging - by the time I'd ridden to the start, done the ride, and ridden back to the station in Exeter, I had nearly 140 miles on the clock, which is twice as far as the Fridays rides. I suggest the distances are about right as they are - those fancying some serious mileage have the option of SMRbtH...


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## frank9755 (24 Sep 2014)

User said:


> With one controlling mind behind the enterprise, the dates are a take it or leave it thing. It has now become a matter of negotiation, which changes stuff. I suggest that, as we don't really need to be setting dates in September for next year, people who are volunteering to organise rides or have any other interest, get together on Saturday morning 8 November to discuss it in person over a couple of slaggs.



I'll definitely come along for the beer, but I reckon you are on to a loser. 

If people are organising things, that includes picking the date. So I suspect that, in the absence of the benign dictator, a system of people just fixing things up and announcing them, in the manner of the Whitstable crew, is more likely to prevail than an attempt by one of us mere mortals to impose a top-down calendar.


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## swarm_catcher (24 Sep 2014)

Hi all,

Martin contacted me - thank you Martin. I haven't been on Cyclechat much recently, and I haven't read through this thread yet. But I can say that I have Saturday 2nd May 2015 in the calendar for the Flemish NRttK. I will start a thread after Xmas.

Here are some pictures from last year:
FNRttK 2014 - Saturday May 3rd

Els


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## srw (24 Sep 2014)

frank9755 said:


> I'll definitely come along for the beer, but I reckon you are on to a loser.
> 
> If people are organising things, that includes picking the date. So I suspect that, in the absence of the benign dictator, a system of people just fixing things up and announcing them, in the manner of the Whitstable crew, is more likely to prevail than an attempt by one of us mere mortals to impose a top-down calendar.


I see the Slag-fest (mine's something darker, by the way) as more of an opportunity to share ideas than an attempt to dictate. A little bit of steering will be the best bet.


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## theclaud (24 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Rest assured, the overly gassy Slagg has left the menu.


They have Kernel now IIRC!


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## frank9755 (24 Sep 2014)

Yes, given the quality of their beer menu nowadays, I suspect discussions might be adjourned without reaching a conclusion.


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## theclaud (24 Sep 2014)

frank9755 said:


> Yes, given the quality of their beer menu nowadays, I suspect discussions might be adjourned without reaching a conclusion.


Reaching a conclusion is one thing. Remembering what conclusion has been reached is quite another.


----------



## AKA Bob (25 Sep 2014)

Like so many on here my cycling adventures have been totally transformed by discovering FNRttC. For me I just love the cycling along dark country lanes enjoying talking to friends and strangers or just enjoying a bit of me and my thoughts. Its people who make me return and I am not that fussed about where it finishes as long as there are those lovely 'Friday Peeps', delightful quiet country lanes to discover, a reasonable breakfast and train station near by to get home from. Discovering new lanes and destinations has always been a highlight such as the Manchester and York rides (no seaside in Hull....) @dellzeqq has shown us the magic formula so lets keep his vision and the aspirations and make him proud.



User said:


> Fridays, and one Thursday, nearest to full moons are
> 6 March
> 2 April
> 1 May
> ...



Maybe if we decide on dates now then those who are happy to lead a ride can put their suggestions against a date for the majority to choose their preferred options if more than one is submitted.


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## redfalo (25 Sep 2014)

As pointed out further up, I'm hapoy to lead a London to Brighton ride in March 6.


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## Flying Dodo (25 Sep 2014)

Perhaps amend the first post to show the planned dates and fill it in with destinations?


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## Flying Dodo (25 Sep 2014)

Perhaps amend the first post to show the planned dates and fill it in with destinations?


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## AKA Bob (25 Sep 2014)

Flying Dodo said:


> Perhaps amend the first post to show the planned dates and fill it in with destinations?



Maybe we forget all ideas of new destinations and stick to the old favourites and just keep FNRttC as it has evolved in 2015 and use the next 12 months to consider ways of giving it a gentle 'facelift' and enter 2016 with a considered and approved game plan?


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## hatler (25 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> Maybe we forget all ideas of new destinations and stick to the old favourites and just keep FNRttC as it has evolved in 2015 and use the next 12 months to consider ways of giving it a gentle 'facelift' and enter 2016 with a considered and approved game plan?


That would get my vote. If you try changing too many things at once the end result could get messy.


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## redfalo (25 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Mix and match perhaps? Reduce Brighton. Boot out Burnham because the cafe don't like us. Keep Whitstable because the halfway and cafe are both lovely. Keep Felpham likewise, if The Cabin remains on board. Fill gaps with experiments. That sort of thing.



can't we do Felpham with Gatwick as a halfway stof, if the Cabin Café jumps ship? 

Anyway, I've added the Brigthon ride on March 6 and the Whitstable one on May 1 to the date list on page 1 of this discussion.


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## AKA Bob (25 Sep 2014)

The whole concept depends on how inclusive the rides are. Is it a select group of regulars using CycleChat to communicate which would mean many of our destinations may not be so 'keen' to have us as the 'cycle pound' will be a lot weaker because of small ride numbers or if Simon allows us to use FNRttC branding with him as the Chairman and operations run by a 'board of directors' we should be able to keep places like The Cabin and Stock on board? This would also allow more new comers to discover the wonders and delights of being sleep deprived on a bicycle......


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## StuartG (25 Sep 2014)

Southend is important. Its the accessible ride for newbies. They are the future and we can maybe afford to backpedal elsewhere. Otherwise we just degenerate into another cycling clique.

I fear from the chat so far we are concentrating on the rides WE would like to do and not the ones for the people who have yet to realise they are Fridays. And of course although Southend is short it might need to be planned with more care particularly encouraging first timers - yet gently sifting out the no-hopers. A DZ speciality.


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## srw (25 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Mix and match perhaps? Reduce Brighton. Boot out Burnham because the cafe don't like us. Keep Whitstable because the halfway and cafe are both lovely. Keep Felpham likewise, if The Cabin remains on board. Fill gaps with experiments. That sort of thing.


Whatever we say on this thread - this is what will happen. People who want to organise something - either based on an existing ride or on a new concept - will do it. If no-one steps forward to organise Saaaafend it won't happen. 

I get the impression that DZ will continue with the insurance, because it doesn't seem a lot of effort. The membership is done by the CTC online, and if we need a whip-round to pay the £75, my efforts at getting you all to pay less for a curry last Friday suggest it'll be a piece of cake.

I'll edit the first post to start a register.


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## srw (25 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> would it help if I updated 'so you want to run a night ride'?


Yes please.


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## srw (25 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Fridays, and one Thursday, nearest to full moons are
> 6 March
> 2 April
> 1 May
> ...


I'm afraid that's a TMN to @redfalo


----------



## srw (25 Sep 2014)

User10571 said:


> No.
> I think it has been shown to take more than one person to over think.
> The combined effort of several others (yourself included) has helped.
> The remainder don't need to know.


QED.


----------



## srw (25 Sep 2014)

Anyway. Can I admit that I don't actually like the seaside? Of the classic rides, only Whitstable is somewhere I'd choose to go - and the best bit of the ride is the time trial. I'd cheerfully stop Brighton at the top of the Beacon, Southend is a horrific place, and the section of NSL road on the way to Felpham makes me want to stop at Arundel. I rather enjoyed Wittering and Bosham on the way to Emsworth, but the cafe itself (lovely though it was) might as well have been in Northampton.


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## ianrauk (25 Sep 2014)

Love the seaside, love to see the sea...love to be beside the sea...


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## theclaud (25 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Anyway. Can I admit that I don't actually like the seaside?



Long as you don't mind normal people thinking you're a bit odd.


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## srw (25 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> Long as you don't mind normal people thinking you're a bit odd.


I think it's a bit late to worry about that.


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## StuAff (25 Sep 2014)

theclaud said:


> Long as you don't mind normal people thinking you're a bit odd.


Normal people? Never mind them, we're all abnormal......


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## StuAff (25 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> [edit]
> *Register of rides....*
> (nothing guaranteed yet)
> 
> ...


Pencil in, if you would please, 15 May for Round the Coast (IOW).


----------



## mmmmartin (25 Sep 2014)

AKA Bob said:


> we should be able to keep places like The Cabin and Stock on board? ..


Stock is finished, the family don't want to do it any more.


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## mmmmartin (25 Sep 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> I have Saturday 2nd May 2015 in the calendar for the Flemish NRttK.


Els
To take part in your wonderful, inspiring, fun-filled, magical, ethereal ride I would walk 100 miles barefoot over icecold gravel and stand in raw sewage*

OK?

*other words are available.


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## mmmmartin (25 Sep 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> So at the moment she isn't coming close to 60 miles a week.


Hey. Listen. If she has the guts to turn up at the start we'll have the guts to get her to the finish. We've been here before, you know.
Get her to do a ride longer than usual, it'll all be fine. If she's fighting the bike all the way, life will be difficult, so ensure the bike is as slick as can be. You seem to imagine she'll be the first rider in that nervous position.


----------



## Fab Foodie (25 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> Anyway. Can I admit that I don't actually like the seaside? Of the classic rides, only Whitstable is somewhere I'd choose to go - and the best bit of the ride is the time trial. I'd cheerfully stop Brighton at the top of the Beacon, Southend is a horrific place, and the section of NSL road on the way to Felpham makes me want to stop at Arundel. I rather enjoyed Wittering and Bosham on the way to Emsworth, but the cafe itself (lovely though it was) might as well have been in Northampton.


----------



## ianmac62 (26 Sep 2014)

swarm_catcher said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Martin contacted me - thank you Martin. I haven't been on Cyclechat much recently, and I haven't read through this thread yet. But I can say that I have Saturday 2nd May 2015 in the calendar for the Flemish NRttK. I will start a thread after Xmas.
> 
> ...


Last weekend of the Football League season.


----------



## ianmac62 (26 Sep 2014)

CTC are updating their insurance from 1st October. This appeared in the Club Shorts e-mail:

*Insurance guidance to change*
CTC’s master insurance policy is renewed on an annual basis. Occasionally this means that the Terms and Conditions we agree with our brokers change slightly, and these are reflected in the guidance notes we provide to Member Groups. Please note that, as from the 1 October 2014, the insurance guidance notes will state that the suggested number of guest riders allowed to attend a CTC Member Group ride will change from a maximum of five to a maximum of ten. Each guest rider should only take part a maximum of three times, rather than the current five, before being asked to join CTC. This change is to enable CTC groups to provide rides for more members of the public, and therefore encourage more to people to join CTC.


----------



## ianmac62 (26 Sep 2014)

User said:


> It will all be over by then.


I'm afraid that, in three out of the last four seasons, Northampton Town have depended upon the results of the final Saturday in order to stay in the Football League. If, of course, it's all over by then I will (a) join the Flemish Night Ride and (b) look forward to the delights of Eastleigh, Forest Green and Braintree.


----------



## Fab Foodie (26 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> Last weekend of the Football League season.


Hooray!


----------



## StuartG (26 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> I'm afraid that, in three out of the last four seasons, Northampton Town have depended upon the results of the final Saturday in order to stay in the Football League. If, of course, it's all over by then I will (a) join the Flemish Night Ride ...


The only problem with the FNRttK is getting home. Of course if Northampton no longer has any reason to exist ...

BTW if you are as young as I think you are ... Belgian Railways do a 6 euro return to anywhere within their network. Sadly they will charge you more for the bike unless you bring the Brompton. Be warned Brugge cobblestones and Brook saddles are incompatible. I can still feel the pain.


----------



## ianmac62 (26 Sep 2014)

StuartG said:


> The only problem with the FNRttK is getting home. Of course if Northampton no longer has any reason to exist ...
> 
> BTW if you are as young as I think you are ... Belgian Railways do a 6 euro return to anywhere within their network. Sadly they will charge you more for the bike unless you bring the Brompton. Be warned Brugge cobblestones and Brook saddles are incompatible. I can still feel the pain.



Thanks @StuartG - CTC Northampton visited Belgium early last year when I was a mere 64 and felt the pain of paying full-price! We thought, however, that the helpfulness of Belgian railway staff towards bikes more than made up for it.

Just spent a brilliant week on the Belgian coast with my wife. Both of us on Brommies. Take the coastal tram; get off and check wind direction; pedal along the coast with a tailwind; catch tram again.

Went to Antwerp for the day for the Benelux Brompton Championship - great fun!


----------



## theclaud (26 Sep 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> To take part in your wonderful, inspiring, fun-filled, magical, ethereal ride *I would walk 100 miles barefoot over icecold gravel and stand in raw
> sewage*



Just to complete the picture, mainly for @User's benefit... would this be with or without budgie-smugglers?


----------



## redfalo (26 Sep 2014)

srw said:


> [edit]
> *Register of rides....*
> (nothing guaranteed yet)
> 
> ...


can you add March 6 - London to Brighton to the first post, run by me and hopefully @ianrauk


----------



## ianrauk (26 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> can you add March 6 - London to Brighton to the first post, run by me and hopefully @ianrauk




Yep, happy to help.


----------



## dellzeqq (28 Sep 2014)

ok. We're back from Spain. Which for reasons that I'll go in to at greater length elsewhere is most unlikely to be a Fridays ride - and, if it were, it would be in the third week of September not at the end of June.

So - my plan for 2015 is this - run one tour, and run one or maybe two night rides. The one night ride will be to Whitstable. I'd like to do that toward the end of June or the beginning of July - that is to say not too soon after the Normandy tour.


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## dellzeqq (28 Sep 2014)

sorry - I should have said. The Fridays will continue as an CTC affiliate. The money is in the bank. If people want to run a ride under the FNRttC title then that's do-able, but it will take work on their behalf.


----------



## dellzeqq (28 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Behalf or part?


on my part and their behalf. Obvs.

(Jeez. I go away for a week, ride up mountains, come back to sea level and all of a sudden everyone's a critic.......)


----------



## ianmac62 (28 Sep 2014)

*NOBODY *would criticise you, DZ!


----------



## mmmmartin (28 Sep 2014)

ianmac62 said:


> the Benelux Brompton Championship - great fun!
> View attachment 57502


Er, um....
*checks his emails*
I was rather hoping for a more sedate tour of northern Spain. Is this the same @ianmac62 I'm going to Spain with or is there a different one?
I'd like to know, that's all......


----------



## mmmmartin (28 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> run one tour, and run one or maybe two night rides. The one night ride will be to Whitstable.


Delighted to help in any way I can.


----------



## dellzeqq (29 Sep 2014)

User13710 said:


> I made the same assumption I think - that you were saying other people will have to take on a fair bit of the (admin) work. Which is in no way a bad thing, surely?


it's a little bit more complicated than that. The rides leaders have to be named as officers. The ride has to be on a website. The ride has to be recce'd and risk-assessed - and that includes things like making sure the length of the ride and the refreshment stops are suited to those taking part. There has to be a central record of those taking part - and that has to be formatted in a consistent way so that the data can be found if there's some kind of question after. So, yes, I did mean 'on behalf'.

Now......Olaf and Ian taking a ride to Brighton on a well-established route is easy-peasy. They know the roads and they know what needs to be done to make sure the ride is safe. But Oxford to London - that's going to take some thought. Reading to Northampton - ditto. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd want to see a plan, and I'd want time to assess that plan - if, as I say, it's going to be a Fridays ride.


----------



## dellzeqq (29 Sep 2014)

User said:


> Which all sounds like a lot of ongoing work for a person on a sabbatical, hence my question.


less work that answering a bunch of dopey e-mails from people who cancel at the last moment ('will I make it?' - to which I answer - and this is the best I can come up with - 'if you can answer no to two out of these three questions - are you over 65, two stone overweight and riding a bike that weighs more than 13kg you will be ok'). And a whole lot less worrying about the weather, about asking the same people time and time again to waymark junctions because you just know the young man riding six inches behind your back wheel is going to stick it out for ten minutes and then go off after his mates, and the woman who is always there to offer help (thankyou Miranda) should not really be doing solo waymarking at dodgy junctions in east London. Not giving a monkeys about the next letter of complaint about the lack of toilets en route. Telling 100 farking idiots (of whom 99 will never turn up) that there isn't a Garmin track of the route because I change my mind as we go along. Trust me, Adrian, this is going to be a year off.


----------



## ianrauk (29 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> Not giving a monkeys about the next* letter of complaint about the lack of toilets en route*.



FFS


----------



## mmmmartin (29 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> my plan for 2015 is this - run one tour


Will that be the Normandy tour or another one? If another one, then where/when/who/how etc? Thoughts?


----------



## Tim Hall (29 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> lTrust me, Adrian, this is going to be a year off.


Good. And extremely well deserved.


----------



## redfalo (29 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> less work that answering a bunch of dopey e-mails from people who cancel at the last moment ('will I make it?' - to which I answer - and this is the best I can come up with - 'if you can answer no to two out of these three questions - are you over 65, two stone overweight and riding a bike that weighs more than 13kg you will be ok'). And a whole lot less worrying about the weather, about asking the same people time and time again to waymark junctions because you just know the young man riding six inches behind your back wheel is going to stick it out for ten minutes and then go off after his mates, and the woman who is always there to offer help (thankyou Miranda) should not really be doing solo waymarking at dodgy junctions in east London. Not giving a monkeys about the next letter of complaint about the lack of toilets en route. Telling 100 ****ing idiots (of whom 99 will never turn up) that there isn't a Garmin track of the route because I change my mind as we go along.



hm....



User said:


> Or we could leave the club, and its insurance cover, to one side for the time being and people could run and participate rides between friends on a consenting adults basis.



maybe Adrian does have a point after all? 

Most of the issues described by Simon should become less important the smaller the group is and the higher the share of experienced Friday members is. Not advertising non-Simon rides in an email might help. 

I have great sympathies for Simon's point of sticking to well-proven routes for medium to big Friday's rides. The new stuff could be done in a smaller contingent of consenting adults, like @StuAff's IOW ride earlier this year or Els' Brussels to Oostende ride.


----------



## ianmac62 (29 Sep 2014)

dellzeqq said:


> ... rides leaders have to be named as officers. The ride has to be on a website. The ride has to be recce'd and risk-assessed - and that includes things like making sure the length of the ride and the refreshment stops are suited to those taking part. There has to be a central record of those taking part - and that has to be formatted in a consistent way so that the data can be found if there's some kind of question after.



Spot on, as a Rides Secretary of a CTC Member Group would confirm. Leaders agreed by the Committee, their names sent to CTC HQ, rides recce'd and risk-assessed, refreshment/toilet stops advised in advance, good record-keeping including details of guest riders. Most riders aren't/don't need to be aware.


----------



## User10571 (29 Sep 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> Good. And extremely well deserved.


^
This.
DZ, you've done more than well to deliver for as long as you have.


----------



## StuAff (29 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> hm....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quite. The IOW is, I imagine, unlikely to appeal to newbies, (Travel to Portsmouth! Slow expensive ferry ride! Lots and lots and lots and lots of climbing!.....) and frankly I'd be very wary of having too many of them on it, certainly without a good number of experienced old hands.


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## ianmac62 (29 Sep 2014)

No more snide comments about Northampton, please - we going to have the world's largest lava lamp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-29410790


----------



## Dogtrousers (30 Sep 2014)

Well, this thread has been an education in ride administration if nothing else. As was the Normandy "not a package" tour thread. It's good to know stuff, even if you don't use it.


----------



## w00hoo_kent (30 Sep 2014)

redfalo said:


> hm....
> maybe Adrian does have a point after all?
> Most of the issues described by Simon should become less important the smaller the group is and the higher the share of experienced Friday members is. Not advertising non-Simon rides in an email might help.
> 
> I have great sympathies for Simon's point of sticking to well-proven routes for medium to big Friday's rides. The new stuff could be done in a smaller contingent of consenting adults, like @StuAff's IOW ride earlier this year or Els' Brussels to Oostende ride.



Making them basically recce rides for possible inclusion in a 2016 calendar...


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## Andrew Br (30 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> Well, this thread has been an education in ride administration if nothing else. As was the Normandy "not a package" tour thread. It's good to know stuff, even if you don't use it.




Yes.
You have to see first hand what Simon does before there's even a ride, it's quite an eye opener..

.


----------



## User10119 (4 Oct 2014)

Does it have to be either/or? If, and only if, dz is happy for rides that are Properly Done By The Rules to be run and led by others under the fridays banner then Hurrah! and Youpi! and thanks in advance to him for facilitating this and for all those old hands who are prepared to step up and undertake the recce-ing and risk assessing and answering a bazillion Emails Of Ever Increasing Stupidity. At the same time consenting adults are certainly able, just as they always were, to organise themselves into social rides that may well be at night, as they in fact often have. Inspired by the Fridays, perhaps, but nonetheless not Fridays rides as would be clear due to their non-inclusion on the club rides list, calendar and website.


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## w00hoo_kent (4 Oct 2014)

Yes, but because of the different organisers doing 'official' ones the unofficial ones will be harder to differentiate and so more work should be put in to differentiating them because of the special circumstances.


----------



## Flying Dodo (4 Oct 2014)

w00hoo_kent said:


> Yes, but because of the different organisers doing 'official' ones the unofficial ones will be harder to differentiate and so more work should be put in to differentiating them because of the special circumstances.



Perhaps have the unofficial ones NOT go to the coast.......


----------



## srw (9 Nov 2014)

Resurrecting this thread after a few brief conversations yesterday morning - @Fab Foodie and I are still discussing possibilities for Oxfordshire, perhaps in connection with the Abingdon cycling festival. Someone (I can't remember who) suggested a dressy ride - a proper old-fashioned Night Out in glad rags - which sounds like a spiffing idea. And @theclaud promised faithfully (or I may have got the wrong end of the stick) that she'd do Cardiff to the Gower on a day I'm not otherwise booked.


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## BalkanExpress (9 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> Resurrecting this thread after a few brief conversations yesterday morning - @Fab Foodie and I are still discussing possibilities for Oxfordshire, perhaps in connection with the Abingdon cycling festival. Someone (I can't remember who) suggested a dressy ride - a proper old-fashioned Night Out in glad rags - which sounds like a spiffing idea. And @theclaud promised faithfully (or I may have got the wrong end of the stick) that she'd do Cardiff to the Gower on a day I'm not otherwise booked.



I think that at some stage in the evening we all pestered TC about the ride..to the extent that she promised good weather just to get rid of me.


----------



## Dogtrousers (10 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> And @theclaud promised faithfully (or I may have got the wrong end of the stick) that she'd do Cardiff to the Gower on a day I'm not otherwise booked.


Well, there are clouds gathering over my 2015 diary already, but if at all possible I will do this. If all goes well I'll be able to offer a lift from London to Cardiff & back to one rider+ bike* providing they don't mind returning on Sunday afternoon after I've caught up on my kip.

* or possibly 2 if extra roof carriers or a Brompton are involved.


----------



## srw (10 Nov 2014)

BalkanExpress said:


> I think that at some stage in the evening we all pestered TC about "her" ride..to the extent that she promised good weather just to get rid of me.


I've heard, both from TC and from DZ that those quote marks aren't entirely fair - all DZ did this time around was tell TC what date it was going to be on.


----------



## srw (10 Nov 2014)

And, inspired by a post elsewhere in this forum proposing a day ride, I'm wondering whether a North Wales ride from somewhere like Chester to Anglesey might be a bit of fun - we have friends with a house overlooking the estuary who (if the house is in adequate repair) might be up for a bit of hosting.


----------



## Andrew Br (10 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> And, inspired by a post elsewhere in this forum proposing a day ride, I'm wondering whether a North Wales ride from somewhere like Chester to Anglesey might be a bit of fun - we have friends with a house overlooking the estuary who (if the house is in adequate repair) might be up for a bit of hosting.



Strange to say, I'd been considering a Chester-Caernarfon ride as an alternative to Manchester-Morecambe on the basis that they're both lovely towns (Chester and Caernarfon that is) and there looks to be some scenery en route. A mid-way food stop might be an issue though, as would the lack of a train station in Caernarfon. It's ~10 miles to Bangor and I think those heading south would have to change at Crewe. Shudder.


----------



## srw (10 Nov 2014)

Andrew Br said:


> Strange to say, I'd been considering a Chester-Caernarfon ride as an alternative to Manchester-Morecambe on the basis that they're both lovely towns (Chester and Caernarfon that is) and there looks to be some scenery en route. A mid-way food stop might be an issue though, as would the lack of a train station in Caernarfon. It's ~10 miles to Bangor and I think those heading south would have to change at Crewe. Shudder.


Can I observe in passing that "scenery" on a night ride isn't _necessarily _a selling-point. It's either a euphemism for "hills" or else it's actually scenery. Either way, in the dark it's not immediately attractive.


----------



## BalkanExpress (10 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> I've heard, both from TC and from DZ that those quote marks aren't entirely fair - all DZ did this time around was tell TC what date it was going to be on.



 I have edited accordingly


----------



## subaqua (10 Nov 2014)

Andrew Br said:


> Strange to say, I'd been considering a Chester-Caernarfon ride as an alternative to Manchester-Morecambe on the basis that they're both lovely towns (Chester and Caernarfon that is) and there looks to be some scenery en route. A mid-way food stop might be an issue though, as would the lack of a train station in Caernarfon. It's ~10 miles to Bangor and I think those heading south would have to change at Crewe. Shudder.


or ride to pwllheli and then do the 5 hr train trip to new street . yes I have done it , and no , never ever again despite the nice scenery


----------



## thom (10 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> Can I observe in passing that "scenery" on a night ride isn't _necessarily _a selling-point. It's either a euphemism for "hills" or else it's actually scenery. Either way, in the dark it's not immediately attractive.


Mid-summer, you might only need lights for half the ride. I think I remember Horley half-way stops seemingly in broad daylight..


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## nickyboy (11 Nov 2014)

subaqua said:


> or ride to pwllheli and then do the 5 hr train trip to new street . yes I have done it , and no , never ever again despite the nice scenery



Having researched* my* ride (the day one alluded to upthread) I was amazed to find a direct Colwyn Bay - London train which might be useful for someone's putative night ride. I guess that is coming from Holyhead so probably stops Bangor too


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## subaqua (11 Nov 2014)

nickyboy said:


> Having researched* my* ride (the day one alluded to upthread) I was amazed to find a direct Colwyn Bay - London train which might be useful for someone's putative night ride. I guess that is coming from Holyhead so probably stops Bangor too


 yeah North Wales isn't as bleak public tranport wise as some would have you beleive. was better before Beeching as you could go on the Ruabon- Barmouth line.

i like the old railways as they are nice routes . I might try and arrange a N Wales ride.


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## subaqua (11 Nov 2014)

User said:


> The beer is expensive?


 depends where you want to drink. can be cheap and good or expensive and crap


----------



## theclaud (11 Nov 2014)

User13710 said:


> Looks like north Wales is the new London .



Ah - we know a thing or two about desperate marketing in Wales...


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## clarion (11 Nov 2014)

London is a long way from anywhere.


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## swansonj (11 Nov 2014)

srw said:


> Can I observe in passing that "scenery" on a night ride isn't _necessarily _a selling-point. It's either a euphemism for "hills" or else it's actually scenery. Either way, in the dark it's not immediately attractive.


The romance of scenery on a bike is surely imbued through senses other than just the eyes. Otherwise a turbo trainer in a dark room would suffice.


----------



## clarion (11 Nov 2014)

User13710 said:


> Looks like north Wales is the new London .


What? The people are rude and objectionable?


----------



## Aperitif (11 Nov 2014)

User said:


> That is a superb idea, do virtual rides. If someone could set up the technology via the Internet, we could avoid getting cold over the winter months.


What would the TECs do. Pop round and fix someone's broken window, or change a washer on the kitchen tap for example?


----------



## Tim Hall (11 Nov 2014)

Andrew Br said:


> Strange to say, I'd been considering a Chester-Caernarfon ride as an alternative to Manchester-Morecambe on the basis that they're both lovely towns (Chester and Caernarfon that is) and there looks to be some scenery en route. A mid-way food stop might be an issue though, as would the lack of a train station in Caernarfon. It's ~10 miles to Bangor and I think those heading south would have to* change at Crewe*. Shudder.


@kimble, who, let's face it, knows an awful lot of things, has this to say on the subject: "Friends don't let friends change at Crewe". Wise words.


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## mcshroom (11 Nov 2014)

I'm looking at touring round Ireland next March. Unfortunately this will mean changing trains either at Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay (which is worse then Crewe IMHO)


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## kimble (11 Nov 2014)

Shirley there are direct ATW trains between Bangor and Mordor Central, thobut. Okay, the bike capacity is a little underwhelming, and the last time I used one I ended up having to make two unscheduled changes as various pieces of rolling stock became unserviceable, but it does at least avoid Crewe.


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## Aperitif (11 Nov 2014)

User said:


> Sounds better than way-marking.



Tim hall, stairs and landing... (sorry @Tim Hall - second (ab)usage) Davywalnut dining table Simon chairLegg Mat etc... sorry - skirting round the issue. As for the mansion tacks...'Easy!'


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## frank9755 (11 Nov 2014)

User said:


> Sounds better than way-marking.


It might still be needed. I know people who could get lost on a turbo-trainer


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## 2wheelsgeth (11 Nov 2014)

I was hoping to do some FNRttCs next year, having missed out on nearly six months of cycling, I thought it would be a fun way of getting some miles in my legs for Velothon Wales/London-Paris/Ventoux/whatever else I decide to do in an ill-advised moment of over-enthusiasm. If I promise to join CTC and not be _too_ much of a pr1ck*, can I?

*Disclaimer - my idea of not being too much of a pr1ck may vary from other peoples', my cycling ability can go down as well as up etc


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## rb58 (11 Nov 2014)

User said:


> Sounds better than way-marking.


There is nothing better than way-marking. Especially when it's wet.


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## Aperitif (11 Nov 2014)

I like your 2015 turbowear, Adrian. Well, I think you'd look as distinguished...


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## mmmmartin (11 Nov 2014)

I have done my best to wade through 15 pages of this thread, and am delighted to report that some of it is not utter bollocks. Are there any actual definite dates for night rides next year?
I have a note of a possible Whitstable ride with @Trickedem and the @swarm_catcher Ostend ride in May. Are there any more?

I'm very happy to organise one, perhaps Brighton as I am sort of local to that area. But I'm in Patagonia in January and February so will miss any planning that happens during that time.
And I'm in for the Cherbourg to Caen one in May but is there any talk of other Fridays tours? I wasn't on the Southend ride.


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## StuAff (11 Nov 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> I have done my best to wade through 15 pages of this thread, and am delighted to report that some of it is not utter bollocks. Are there any actual definite dates for night rides next year?
> I have a note of a possible Whitstable ride with @Trickedem and the @swarm_catcher Ostend ride in May. Are there any more?
> 
> I'm very happy to organise one, perhaps Brighton as I am sort of local to that area. But I'm in Patagonia in January and February so will miss any planning that happens during that time.
> And I'm in for the Cherbourg to Caen one in May but is there any talk of other Fridays tours? I wasn't on the Southend ride.


Yes, there are more dates....see post #1....


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## sagefly (11 Nov 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> Sorry, just to clarify (I was rushing because the Butler had just hit the dinner gong ...).
> Of course volunteers, compulsion would be silly.
> 
> In terms of Oxford to London specifically; there's no good reason why it has to stop in Acton, the final miles into say HPC or other are easy and with little traffic on a Saturday morn between 7 and 8 am..
> ...


I've sounded out a decent pub for breakfast that also has good secure space to park the bikes up, if that food\beer option is required.


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## mmmmartin (11 Nov 2014)

Aha. Thanks @StuAff
Silly me, starting at the most recent posts and working backwards. Apologies.
Right - when I get back in March I'll sign up for things.
Will there be a Christmas-time London ride with Added Architectural Awesomeness followed by beer? Or is that history?
And do I see no sign of a week-long Fridays Tour involving Johnny Foreigner and Scrufulous Peasants? Or indeed, a Cheerful & Friendly White Van Man? (Not that I'm naming names at all, @ianmac62)
Is there any thinking about this?


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## velovoice (11 Nov 2014)

mmmmartin said:


> And do I see no sign of a week-long Fridays Tour involving Johnny Foreigner and Scrufulous Peasants? Or indeed, a Cheerful & Friendly White Van Man?
> Is there any thinking about this?


Er... http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-fridays-tour-de-normandie-2015.164117/
Not quite a week long but all the other hallmarks remain.


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## StuAff (11 Nov 2014)

velovoice said:


> Er... http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-fridays-tour-de-normandie-2015.164117/
> Not quite a week long but all the other hallmarks remain.


And also the ongoing discussions (well, they've paused for a few days, but...) in the Fridays Tour 2014 conversation. I don't know if anything got discussed on Friday night/Saturday morning....


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## velovoice (11 Nov 2014)

StuAff said:


> And also the ongoing discussions (well, they've paused for a few days, but...) in the Fridays Tour 2014 conversation. I don't know if anything got discussed on Friday night/Saturday morning....


Ah, thanks for that Stu, I haven't been watching that thread for a while.


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## velovoice (11 Nov 2014)

StuAff said:


> And also the ongoing discussions (well, they've paused for a few days, but...) in the Fridays Tour *2014 *conversation. I don't know if anything got discussed on Friday night/Saturday morning....


Hmm, last post September 2013...?


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## StuAff (11 Nov 2014)

velovoice said:


> Hmm, last post September 2013...?


October 27 (2014..), by Olaf ....


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## velovoice (12 Nov 2014)

Ah, I see. Does that help mmmmartin?


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## Gordon P (12 Nov 2014)

2wheelsgeth said:


> I was hoping to do some FNRttCs next year, having missed out on nearly six months of cycling, I thought it would be a fun way of getting some miles in my legs for Velothon Wales/London-Paris/Ventoux/whatever else I decide to do in an ill-advised moment of over-enthusiasm. If I promise to join CTC and not be _too_ much of a pr1ck*, can I?
> 
> *Disclaimer - my idea of not being too much of a pr1ck may vary from other peoples', my cycling ability can go down as well as up etc


see post #1 in this thread


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## frank9755 (12 Nov 2014)

User said:


> Are you sure that isn't you as my maxi me? It is hard to assess the scale.



I see what you mean. Possibly a love-child...?


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## sbird (20 Nov 2014)

@AkaBob alerted me to this thread.

So just to announce that the third Reading to Lymington night ride with be on Reading CTCs calendar next year, 18th September 2015. Our rides list never goes more than 3 months in advance but I thought you'd like to know this is in my plans - in yours perhaps?


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