# Fischer E-bikes



## Rickshaw Phil (25 Jun 2016)

I've had the pleasure of setting up (after a lot of googling to find out what the German instructions said) and testing one of these during the last week as the boss got hold of one for his wife to try out.

I thought it was pretty good but I'm curious as to what our more knowledgeable members think of them. This was the one that he got: LINK


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## welsh dragon (25 Jun 2016)

It looks very similar to kalkhoff bikes and I believe they are the number 1 ebike. What mileage does it do. I thought it said around 140km ? Per charge?. My german is rubbish. If that's right, then the mileage is similar to a kalkhoff as well.

I do wonder. Though, if you sacrifice power for the mileage they can do. IE. Less power means greater miles per charge can be achieved. But the bike does look quite nice. Have a look at the kalkhoffs and you will see how similar they appear to be.

German made bikes to tend to be well made though. Good engineering. Made to last. Of course they are not cheap, but you tend to get what you pay for.


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## Rickshaw Phil (25 Jun 2016)

From what I could see, 140km is with everything turned right down. 50 to 80km under power seemed to be what it was claiming at the mid to high power settings. Something I quite liked was that despite the weight it didn't feel like a heavy bike to ride with the motor turned off.

The Kalkhoff bikes look interesting. They all seem to have the motor built into the bottom bracket though which is a little more sophisticated and substantially more expensive from the pricing I could find. 

Fischers website shows this one at 1249 Euros. Probably nearer cost price for the boss though, buying through his business contacts.


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## welsh dragon (25 Jun 2016)

The mileage you can get depends very much on the weight of the cyclist, how much of the available power they use, how many hills they encounter etc, but 30 to 50 miles average would be about right I think. I do like the fact that the battery is housed in the rear rack instead of having a great lump of a battery wedged behind the seat post.

And these days, they are trying to make the bikes a bit lighter. That has always been the bug bear with them up to now that they weighed a ton. Ebikes are getting better and better, and better looking as well.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Jun 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> The mileage you can get depends very much on the weight of the cyclist, how much of the available power they use, how many hills they encounter etc, but 30 to 50 miles average would be about right I think. I do like the fact that the battery is housed in the rear rack instead of having a great lump of a battery wedged behind the seat post.
> 
> And these days, they are trying to make the bikes a bit lighter. That has always been the bug bear with them up to now that they weighed a ton. Ebikes are getting better and better, and better looking as well.


Hello Welshy, where you bin? Haven't seen you for a while.
Hope all is well.


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## welsh dragon (26 Jun 2016)

Roadrider48 said:


> Hello Welshy, where you bin? Haven't seen you for a while.
> Hope all is well.




Hi there roadrider. I've been around. Hope you are well.


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## Roadrider48 (26 Jun 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> Hi there roadrider. I've been around. Hope you are well.


I am, thanks for asking.
Keep well.


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## Pale Rider (26 Jun 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> From what I could see, 140km is with everything turned right down. 50 to 80km under power seemed to be what it was claiming at the mid to high power settings. Something I quite liked was that despite the weight it didn't feel like a heavy bike to ride with the motor turned off.
> 
> The Kalkhoff bikes look interesting. They all seem to have the motor built into the bottom bracket though which is a little more sophisticated and substantially more expensive from the pricing I could find.
> 
> Fischers website shows this one at 1249 Euros. Probably nearer cost price for the boss though, buying through his business contacts.



The Fischer bike has a rear hub motor, which are relatively cheap - under a £100 retail - and usually reliable.

Inevitably, there's more strain on the spokes, so breakages can be a problem on poorly built wheels.

The bike has a large capacity 15 amp/hour battery with Panasonic cells, which are as good as any.

The rear motor and carrier battery will make the bike rear-heavy, and I could bang on about crank drive ebikes like mine being better balanced and offering a nicer cycling experience.

But, quite reasonably, all many new ebikers are bothered about is the bike is easier to pedal, particularly up hills.

A hub motor bike ticks those boxes, so the new owner will likely be pleased with the Fischer.


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## Rickshaw Phil (26 Jun 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> The Fischer bike has a rear hub motor, which are relatively cheap - under a £100 retail - and usually reliable.
> 
> *Inevitably, there's more strain on the spokes, so breakages can be a problem on poorly built wheels.*
> 
> ...


That's the kind of thing that prompted me to ask the question. Being the cyclist in a company full of petrolheads I'm seen as the fount of all knowledge when it comes to pushbikes  so when asked "Is it any good?" it's easy enough to make a judgement on the cycle components but I don't have experience of what's good and bad about the electric bits.


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## Yellow Saddle (30 Jul 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Inevitably, there's more strain on the spokes, so breakages can be a problem on poorly built wheels.


You keep on repeating this myth.

Whether the torque is supplied via the chain or directly to the hub, the spokes receive the same strain for the same torque. There is no more torture involved in the one system over the other. Poorly built wheels are just that, poorly built wheels and spokes will break equally whether they are on a hub drive or crank drive.

You keep on repeating this unsubstantiated story, I see it is even in the FAQ at the top.

Explain your position or put the myth to rest.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jul 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> You keep on repeating this myth.
> 
> Whether the torque is supplied via the chain or directly to the hub, the spokes receive the same strain for the same torque. There is no more torture involved in the one system over the other. Poorly built wheels are just that, poorly built wheels and spokes will break equally whether they are on a hub drive or crank drive.
> 
> ...



Look, I don't need to justify myself to the likes of you, but just in case anyone else is taken in by your attempt to pursue a vendetta against me due to the locking of the tyre pressure thread...

Lots of owners of cheap rear hub drive ebikes have problems with spokes breaking.

The owner of woosh bikes - who sell about 20 such bikes a week - told me it's a common problem, illustrated by a bike they lent me which broke several spokes.

Of course, a properly built quality wheel will be bombproof whether it has a motor or not, but a sub-£1,000 ebike is unlikely to have the best quality wheel or build.

So in answer to @Rickshaw Phil's question, it's correct to point out that one of the most likely problems with a budget rear hub motor ebike will be spoke breakages.

One could examine why, maybe the motor torque snatches more than just pedal only torque.

A legal 250w hub motor peaks at more than twice that, add some hard pedalling, and the total number of watts is relatively high.

Rider weight may come into it, a lot of people who buy ebikes do so because they hope to shift a bit of timber.

But does it matter?

The fact of spoke breaks being common on cheap rear hub bikes remains that, a fact.

Oxygen bikes, who also sell a lot of budget rear hub ebikes, reckon keeping the spokes taut helps alleviate the problem.

The arcane art of wheelbuilding is beyond me, but that's their experience.

Spoke breakages on front wheel motor ebikes are almost unknown, which may give credence to the notion the total torque applied to a rear hub bike and/or lardy riders is the problem.


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## steveindenmark (31 Jul 2016)

Did I miss something there?

I cannot see anyone having a pop, only making valid comments.


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## Hill Wimp (31 Jul 2016)

I think they are referring to another thread.


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## Yellow Saddle (31 Jul 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Look, I don't need to justify myself to the likes of you, but just in case anyone else is taken in by your attempt to pursue a vendetta against me due to the locking of the tyre pressure thread...
> 
> Lots of owners of cheap rear hub drive ebikes have problems with spokes breaking.
> 
> ...



You made the claim that hub motors break more spokes than crank motors. No matter how you phrase it, it is wrong. You made the claim in two posts. Repeating it will not make it true, nor will a belated rider of "cheap rear hubs" fix the statement.

If something is beyond you as you say, and you are out of your depth on a particular subject, it is better that you not offer advice on that subject.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

I have a 250w Gtech rear hub drive and a 350w Mid drive conversion Carrera.

I would say out of the two the 350w mid drive would be more likely to brake a spoke due to higher torque transferred through the rear wheel.

Saying that I've broken a few rear wheel spokes on leg power alone so blaming the e-assist for me wouldn't be fair..


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## jonny jeez (11 Aug 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> From what I could see, 140km is with everything turned right down. 50 to 80km under power seemed to be what it was claiming at the mid to high power settings. Something I quite liked was that despite the weight it didn't feel like a heavy bike to ride with the motor turned off.
> 
> The Kalkhoff bikes look interesting. They all seem to have the motor built into the bottom bracket though which is a little more sophisticated and substantially more expensive from the pricing I could find.
> 
> Fischers website shows this one at 1249 Euros. Probably nearer cost price for the boss though, buying through his business contacts.


Kalkhoff believe in the motor and battery being place at the low centre of gravity. I've ridden treks with a rear mounted batter and have to agree.

I thought seriously about it a few years ago as a way to give up driving.

I opted for a road bike, which has served me well and opened up my cycling experiences a lot.

An elec bike would have retained me firmly in the commuter world.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

Have a very good read up on the Kalkhoff Impulse/ Impulse2 motor failure rate before deciding to buy one, even their Evo motor has seen failures as low as 30miles in..

For me out of the big names it would be Bosch/ Yamaha or Shimano STEPS mid drives...


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## Yellow Saddle (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Saying that I've broken a few rear wheel spokes on leg power alone so blaming the e-assist for me wouldn't be fair..



I very much doubt it.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

Shoud I rephrase I have broken 3 rear wheel spokes on a non electric bike?..


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## Yellow Saddle (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Shoud I rephrase I have broken 3 rear wheel spokes on a non electric bike?..


You should rephrase that you "have broken a few rear wheel spokes on leg power alone".


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

Well I have broken a few spokes on a leg powered bike so what's the problem there?.


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## Yellow Saddle (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Well I have broken a few spokes on a leg powered bike so what's the problem there?.



Slight technical problem with "leg power". You are not strong enough to break spokes through power, or rather, torque. However, your weight on the wheel causes 99% of the cyclical stresses that lead to metal fatigue, which breaks spokes. They break in the same mode as taking a piece of metal wire and bending it until it breaks. That break is not caused by your strong biceps or pecs or lats or triceps or abs, but by small movements that require no strength that leads to cracks and fractures.

That's what I'm harping on about here. It is not torque to the wheel - by leg power or by motor power - that breaks spokes, it is just riding along with weight on the wheel.

Chris Hoy, who seems like a strong sort of chap, cannot break spokes by sprinting out of the starting block. His spokes break as frequently (or not) as mine provided we weight the same and ride the same distance.

Let power or motor power has next-to-nothing to do with it. By using next-to-nothing I mean that if you were to coast the same distance as pedal your spokes will break at approximately the same distance.


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## Rickshaw Phil (11 Aug 2016)

Oi! Stop hijacking my thread with chatter about spokes.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Oi! Stop hijacking my thread with chatter about spokes.



Just do your homework very carefully, especially if you are planning on buying a Kalkhoff .


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## Rickshaw Phil (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Just do your homework very carefully, especially if you are planning on buying a Kalkhoff .


Not helping!  I'm *not *planning to buy a Kalkhoff.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

Sorry, heard them mentioned on the fisrt page and just looking out for anyone thinking of buying one ;-).


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