# MTBing a guide to....



## lukesdad (21 Jan 2012)

There has been a lot of useful info posted in here in the past, that has tended to get lost in the mists of time, by some very knowledgeble folk. I think its about time we had a sticky that can be a quick ref. guide that can be accessed by all. Similar to what is available in beginners and commuting. Although there is bound to be disagreement on the finer points, Im sure we can all rise above our differences and provide help to those starting out.

From bikes to components and riding techniques etc. etc. 

What do you all think ?

My thoughts are to keep it in some sort of order if we can, but this can be edited to fit posts into the right part of the thread Im assured ( naming no names )

So are we up for it ? Thoughts ?


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

I'd quite like to see a thread where a prospective purchaser of a MTB could see where to start. There are any number of "I want a MTB to ride on the canal towpath threads" No one is allowed to point out where heavyweight clunker gives way to rideable entry-level bike, so everyone ends up recommending some £300 "bargain" which in reality will be utterly disappointing for anyone wanting to branch out beyond a bit of parkside hardpack. 

So. Let's begin by saying that if you're considering riding more than the occasional towpath, you need to find a bike that weighs less than 14kg, and has forks with damping adjustment. To do this you will need a budget of £500 or more. Or be prepared to shop at Decathlon or Halfords, (but not their £200 wonders). There I've said it, let teh haranguing commence.


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## Keith Oates (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> I'd quite like to see a thread where a prospective purchaser of a MTB could see where to start. There are any number of "I want a MTB to ride on the canal towpath threads" No one is allowed to point out where heavyweight clunker gives way to rideable entry-level bike, so everyone ends up recommending some £300 "bargain" which in reality will be utterly disappointing for anyone wanting to branch out beyond a bit of parkside hardpack.
> 
> So. Let's begin by saying that if you're considering riding more than the occasional towpath, you need to find a bike that weighs less than 14kg, and has forks with damping adjustment. To do this you will need a budget of £500 or more. Or be prepared to shop at Decathlon or Halfords, (but not their £200 wonders). There I've said it, let teh haranguing commence.




Having just joined a club out here that do off road rides on Sunday mornings that vary between 60 to 85 Kms, I would say that your comment above is 'spot on'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> So. *Let's begin by saying that if you're considering riding more than the occasional towpath, you need to find a bike that weighs less than 14kg, and has forks with damping adjustment*. To do this you will need a budget of £500 or more. Or be prepared to shop at Decathlon or Halfords, (but not their £200 wonders). There I've said it, let teh haranguing commence.


 
Didn't we all start out *riding more than the occasional towpath on *rigid forks?


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Didn't we all start out *riding more than the occasional towpath on *rigid forks?


No, I once rode a rigid MTB on the Colne Valley Challenge route, and realized on one descent a) I couldn't focus 'cos my eyeballs were jiggling b) my wrists and arms were about to explode and c) my piles were worse than I thought. I vowed never to be uncomfortable again. 


We could start a "MTB for Purists" thread which involves rigid forks, singlespeed and thrashing yourself with nettles if it didn't feel hard enough the first time round, or we can be honest and recommend kit that will do more than a green family trail with poise. I know not all MTBers will progress to red and black trails, but if you took a £400 bike on the Ae Line it or you are likely to fall to bits before you got to Omega Man.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2012)

^ So, in fact, 'yes' then?

Maybe what we need is to agree (some hopes) what level of sophistication of bike, components and core riding skills you need for each level of Mountain Biking especially for those who will never encounter a real mountain out on their bikes...

But I agree 100% with the idea behind your OP.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

^^
Well yes, but only once. That's why I struggle with the sort of reverse snobbery that means we aren't allowed to recommend good kit, albeit at a price. My example is the thread where someone comes on and says "I have a grand to spend on a hardtail" so someone points to a quality bike with Reba/Fox and XT kit, only to be shot down with some "You don't need all that, spend £500 and the rest on a rack and panniers for it" nonsense. My point is that MTBing is recreational, it ain 't commuting. 

If we want to recommend practical everyday shopping/commuting/towpath bikes on a £300 budget we point them at Subways. If someone wants to get into bridleway and trail riding then we owe it to them to tell them they need decent damped forks and a bike they can actually lift over a stile if they have to. In today's market that starts at about £500, but realistically is far better at £700 plus. The realism starts when that person gets out onto some nice trail and can actually ride the damn thing and doesn't get put off. They have to realise that the budget is (at times) eye-watering. By the time they've sold their second child to Science to buy an upgraded wheelset they may begin to wonder whether riding rigid may be a good idea, but by then their skills will be up to it. 

Agreeing is the difficult bit. There are very few on CC who actually post about their MTB exploits and kit. There are one or two who delight in pointing out that the bit of kit one rider has recommended caused a flame war on STW in 2006 and as a result every MTB rider in the country ought to boycott any product that wasn't hewn from a single billet of Mithril in the Pennines.


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2012)

The delivery on my desk will result in a lynch mob forming the next time I go to a trail centre. Replacing X9 front trigger shifter with an X0 gripshifter (arthritic thumb) so my bike with be asymmetric! And I bought it from Halfords!!

Stone him!

Anyway; let's do it, and let's keep the inverse snobbery, and commuting adaptations  to recreational MTB's out of it.


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## junglegusset (24 Jan 2012)

Er, when you have finished doing that could you do one on road bikes please? 

Regarding MTB's though my beloved Kona Explosive got stolen last year. I got some insurance money, went on ebay, for £200 I got a ParkPre 825 in Tange Ultimate, with a full XT groupset, Hope headset, Marzocchi fork (with dampening adjustment AND lockout), and a handbuilt rear wheel. I am not sure you could find a better new hardtail for five times that. So you don't need to spend a shed load of money at all. I guess though that buying bike second hand has it's own set of problems (maybe that would be the good subject of a sticky as well).
I am putting the rest of the insurance money towards a road bike, and that is a whole new learning curve for me.


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## Crackle (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> No, I once rode a rigid MTB on the Colne Valley Challenge route, and realized on one descent a) I couldn't focus 'cos my eyeballs were jiggling b) my wrists and arms were about to explode and c) my piles were worse than I thought. I vowed never to be uncomfortable again.


 
Pffft, some of us still do that, it all adds to the experience. Frequency is the key, not of your eyeballs but of your off road riding. I can't really justify moving on from my 16 year old mtn bike, state of the art in its day, my frequency and type of riding does not justify it and yes I do occasionally go to trail centres. I get some perverse satisfaction from being the only rigid rider there but as you say, if I was buying today, I wouldn't get a rigid bike. And no, my bike skills are no better for riding a rigid, I'm still sh!t.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

GregCollins said:


> The delivery on my desk will result in a lynch mob forming the next time I go to a trail centre. Replacing X9 front trigger shifter with an X0 gripshifter (arthritic thumb) so my bike with be assymetric! And I bought it from Halfords!!
> 
> Stone him!
> 
> Anyway; let's do it, and let's keep the inverse snobbery, and commuting adaptations  to reacreational MTB's out of it.


That's more like it!


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

junglegusset said:


> Er, when you have finished doing that could you do one on road bikes please?
> 
> Regarding MTB's though my beloved Kona Explosive got stolen last year. I got some insurance money, went on ebay, for £200 I got a ParkPre 825 in Tange Ultimate, with a full XT groupset, Hope headset, Marzocchi fork (with dampening adjustment AND lockout), and a handbuilt rear wheel. I am not sure you could find a better new hardtail for five times that. So you don't need to spend a shed load of money at all. I guess though that buying bike second hand has it's own set of problems (maybe that would be the good subject of a sticky as well).
> I am putting the rest of the insurance money towards a road bike, and that is a whole new learning curve for me.


Great post..........But how would this benefit a beginner wanting to buy a hardtail from new?


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2012)

another sticky thread on the specifics of 2nd hand MTB buying.... you have to be as clued up as you do to buy a 2nd hand road bike and then some.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

GregCollins said:


> another sticky thread on the specifics of 2nd hand MTB buying.... you have to be as clued up as you do to buy a 2nd hand road bike and then some.


You haven't got a long travel frame knocking about have you? I've got a lovely 140 Fox fork and nothing to bolt it onto...............!


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## lukesdad (24 Jan 2012)

so we re all interested then ? I thought Greg and Cubist would offer a contrast in ideas ! Seperate stickys then do you think ? Bikes and components, then riding tips perhaps even ride guides ?


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

I like the idea. Do we need to sub-divide into organic bridleways vs trailcentres, with a bit of routesharing and recommendations?


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## lukesdad (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> ^^
> Well yes, but only once. That's why I struggle with the sort of reverse snobbery that means we aren't allowed to recommend good kit, albeit at a price. My example is the thread where someone comes on and says "I have a grand to spend on a hardtail" so someone points to a quality bike with Reba/Fox and XT kit, only to be shot down with some "You don't need all that, spend £500 and the rest on a rack and panniers for it" nonsense. My point is that MTBing is recreational, it ain 't commuting.
> 
> If we want to recommend practical everyday shopping/commuting/towpath bikes on a £300 budget we point them at Subways. If someone wants to get into bridleway and trail riding then we owe it to them to tell them they need decent damped forks and a bike they can actually lift over a stile if they have to. In today's market that starts at about £500, but realistically is far better at £700 plus. The realism starts when that person gets out onto some nice trail and can actually ride the damn thing and doesn't get put off. They have to realise that the budget is (at times) eye-watering. By the time they've sold their second child to Science to buy an upgraded wheelset they may begin to wonder whether riding rigid may be a good idea, but by then their skills will be up to it.
> ...


This is the point of the sticky, defining the vast array of kit that is available, what you are going to need, to do what you want to do. All we can do is offer slightly less experienced riders the best advice we can. In doing so lets try to keep it factual. Sure we ll have our differences, but we can leave the points scoring for another time.


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## lukesdad (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> I like the idea. Do we need to sub-divide into organic bridleways vs trailcentres, with a bit of routesharing and recommendations?


Anyway you like but I think we need to keep it organised, and easy to reference.


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## Cubist (24 Jan 2012)

Great!
Where do we start?


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Jan 2012)

I'm in. Might even change my avatar to see if cc allows Boardman hardtails without exploding.


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## lukesdad (24 Jan 2012)

Cubist said:


> Great!
> Where do we start?


Ive pm d shaun hopefully he ll join the thread and let us know whats possible.


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## Aperitif (25 Jan 2012)

lukesdad said:


> Ive pm d shaun hopefully he ll join the thread and let us know whats possible.


Good idea! I'll be reading - I kno knothink of this strange world.
Yet.


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## lukesdad (26 Jan 2012)

Aperitif said:


> Good idea! I'll be reading - I kno knothink of this strange world.
> Yet.


 We re working on it 'teef, we might even have a concensus !


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## Friz (27 Jan 2012)

And a "Before you post - read this" thread that has all the common questions that folks are too lazy to search for. I mean, how many new "Should I use clipless pedals?" (Try em and see) and "What kind of tyres should I use?" (Round, black and rubber tend to do the trick) threads do there really need to be?


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## lukesdad (27 Jan 2012)

Friz said:


> And a "Before you post - read this" thread that has all the common questions that folks are too lazy to search for. I mean, how many new "Should I use clipless pedals?" (Try em and see) and "What kind of tyres should I use?" (Round, black and rubber tend to do the trick) threads do there really need to be?


Don t be to harsh Friz, everybody has to start somewhere.


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## Shaun (4 Feb 2012)

A sticky thread is probably the best way to approach this - with the opening post being a good, in-depth "article" style post covering the main points.

I can leave it open, so others can comment, or close it for replies and you post me updates if you want to make changes to it.

Just start a new thread (or use this one) to bash-out the article content itself, then when we post it "proper" as a sticky in its own right I can delete the development thread.

Cheers,
Shaun


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## lukesdad (6 Feb 2012)

Ive come up with this as an opener;


This is the first in a series of stickys, designed to give an insight into the world of mtb. They are intended to help new riders to the mtb scene progress and hopefully avoid some of the pitfalls they maybe likely to encounter. Mtb is a diverse code ranging, from gentle towpath riding, trail riding, mtb centres, off road touring, wild hills to technical downhill . It is important to define what it is you intend to do with your mtb, as this is going to determine your choice of equipment. A word of warning here, there are a lot of cheap mtbs available today that are not going to be suitable for serious off road riding. Having said that there are plenty that are, at decent prices, if you know where to look, both new and S/hand, but more of this later.

*Framesets.*
There are basically three types of framesets that are used in mtb today. Rigids, Hardtails (HT) and Full Suspension ( Full Suss, Bouncers) each type has its pro s and cons depending on your situation and the use you are going to put it to.
*Rigids.*
Material ;
 aluminium (ali), steel, titanium (Ti)
Back in the mists of time when Mtb first arrived from the U.S.A, these were the only frames available on the mass market. Based on the traditional cycle design but using 26” wheels (the standard for wheels with fat tyres in the States ). One of the problems in the early days was not everybody sang from the same song sheet in regards to fittings, something to bear in mind if buying S/hand. Cannondale being a prime example (this continues to the present day in some respects). The beauty of the quality rigid is, its simplicity, lightweight and relative ease of serviceability and running costs. The rigid is not to be discounted out of hand, as they are perfectly capable of coping with terrain a lot of people would wish to use an mtb for. The downside to a rigid in any serious terrain is its stiffness and lack of suspension (obviously). You will feel everything the trail has to throw at you, fatigue brought on by vibration can be an issue with a rigid.
Buying; 
 If you are not quite sure if mtbing is for you, a s/hand rigid could be a good way to go. There are plenty of good examples around ( recently a Cannondale M800 beast of the east in mint condition sold for under £300 on ebay ). If you found mtbing was not your cup of tea, you wouldn t lose much, if anything on resale. Likewise if you found it was for you, sell it then upgrade to something else. There are still some quality rigids available from new. Van Nicholas make some lovely examples in Ti, but you would have to be sure a rigid was for you before spending upwards of £1500 on one!
As with buying any second hand frame, care is needed. Steel frames can rust from the inside out and you will only discover it when it breaks. Aluminium frames can also crack through use and age. They also offer a much stiffer ride which can compound some of the issues in regards to ride quality already mentioned.
Original components can be unavailable or very expensive. Fortunately old style Mtb crank spiders have the same BCD as road compacts. It is also quite simple to convert to a 9 speed drive train especially if you have friction shifters.
*Good examples are;*
Spesh Rockhopper and Stumpjumper
Kona Explosif and Kilauea
GT Zasker
Cannondale M2000 M1000 M800
Fuji Steelite.



*Hardtails.*
Material;
Various ali compounds ,Carbon, Steel, Titanium.
With the introduction of front suspension the hardtail was born. With it, the hardtail brought sloping top tubes, V brakes and the 1 1/8 A Headset (Developments that had started to creep in the later days of the rigid.) . Front suspension came in various lengths of travel depending on the intended use. Adjustable Damping and Lockouts came later.Two exceptions to the traditional front fork were Cannondales Headshock and leftie fork. The rear end is usually a conventional triangle although there have been some exceptions. Another signifcant development to later hardtails was the disc brake. For many years the hardtail has been the weapon of choice for many mtbers, and its not hard to see why. With a tuneable front end and better braking they make a nimble mount for when the going gets tough. The main disadvantage with hardtails is front end ‘bob’ ( the movement of the forks occurring during the pedalling action this can be negated to a certain extent with practice) Lockout can alleviate this also but is by no means ideal in an off road situation. The only extra service work on a hardtail over a rigid are the forks. Disc brake pad replacement can be awkward until you get the knack .
Buying;
Unless you are looking for a bargain at the top end buying S/hand may not be worth the hassle. New hardtails of good quality are now available for around £500-£600.Bargains are to be had if you are not fussed to own this years model. As with buying any bike trying before you buy is always a good idea, especially when it comes to sizing. More about buying and sizing here ;
*Full Suspension*
Materials;
Various ali compounds and carbon are the most common although other materials are and have been used.
The most recent addition to the mtb fold followed shortly after the introduction of the Hardtail. Although the concept of rear suspension was a good one, in practice it proved difficult to perfect. There have been all sorts of weird and wonderful designs tried then discarded. Modern rear suspension designs are the result of years of development. Even today there is no ideal or perfect rear suspension. Im not going to go into the various designs here, there a couple of good articles here; http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-suspension-part-1-28367/
And here; http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/buyers-guide-to-mountain-bike-suspension-part-2-28438/
Top quality Full Sussers are a joy to ride on the rough stuff, cheap ones are awful. Here lies the main drawback with full sussers, price. If you re serious about your mtb and are prepared to maintain your steed the full susser could be the mount for you. If on the other hand you get one to look the part, you may well be wasting your hard earned cash. That may seem harsh, at the end of the day its your money.
Buying;
As has been mentioned, good Full Sussers don’t come cheap. You won t usually get much change out of £1500, unless you happen on a bargain from a slightly older model , someone has in stock. At the top end,.... well think of a number and double it ! Buying S/hand can be a bit of a minefield if you don’t know what you are looking at. Suspension units ( shocks and forks) Bushes in pivots and links need careful examination. Links and mounting points are particularly liable to fracture and damage and again need careful examination. If your determined to buy secondhand try to take someone with you who can examine and advise you on condition. Repairs even if they are possible can be expensive. Its definitely a case of buyer beware.
While this is only a basic guide, hopefully it will point you at least in the right direction to the type of bike to look at. 
Comments and further advice are welcomed, but please keep it factual and to the point.
Please check out the guides to components buying and sizing and riding tips that accompany this article.
May I take this opportunity to wish you all many miles of happy and safe riding.


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