# Another Tipper Lorry Death.



## The Horse's Mouth (22 Jun 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33223823

RIP


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## numbnuts (22 Jun 2015)

Oh dear RIP condolence to family and friends


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## Saluki (22 Jun 2015)

RIP Cyclist lady.

Is it just me, or are there more women killed by tipper lorries than men?


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## Blue Hills (22 Jun 2015)

RIP.

It is a pretty complicated terrible junction.

It does seem time to ban tipper lorries during morning and evening rush hours apart from special projects where drivers are given special training.


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## albion (22 Jun 2015)

Sad. 6th female fatality out of 8 fatalities so far this London year.

7 of the 8 were killed by lorries.


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## xxDarkRiderxx (22 Jun 2015)

Very sad to hear this on the news this afternoon. Condolences to family and friends RIP.


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## RitchieJoe (22 Jun 2015)

here was me wanting to get my mum to get a bike, reconsidering that now.

Another young life tragically taken, RIP


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## gavintc (22 Jun 2015)

Sad, so sad. Poor woman, killed by a bloody truck. Not good.


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## spen666 (22 Jun 2015)

Blue Hills said:


> RIP.
> 
> It is a pretty complicated terrible junction.
> 
> It does seem time to ban tipper lorries during morning and evening rush hours apart from special projects where drivers are given special training.




You mean to make it far more dangerous for those who cycle outside of rush hour by ensuring there are far more lorries on roads at those times?

Another fact is you are appearing to assume the truck drivers are to blame. Another solution people could argue is ban the cyclists at rush hour or as its 6/8 were female deaths, lets ban females from cycling. All unacceptable I presume. They are to me


A far more sensible approach is lets deal with the cause of the problem and not make knee jerk reactions to ban people. Not all tipper drivers are the problem, so why punish the whole class of drivers?


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## Markymark (22 Jun 2015)

Well, most cyclists killed are by lorries in central London. They also feature high in the league of pedestrian deaths. They are also found to be disproportionally unroadworthy in recent random police stops. It is also deemed acceptable to run-over a cyclist in front of you claiming that it is not possible to see them in a lorry. It also appears to be the case you can be banned several times and still be employed to drive lorries.

I think it would be quite fair to say that the current situation is not safe and that greater restrictions be placed on lorries.

This should include removing pay-per-load, increasing points/fines for infringements, safer lorries (better visibility, sensors etc) and a more rigerous checking of history before keys are given out.


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## glenn forger (22 Jun 2015)

Almost 100 HGVs have been taken off roads in the Square Mile in the first month of a new unit to crack down on dangerous lorries.

The City of London police’s commercial vehicle unit, funded by Transport for London, stopped 136 vehicles in May and removed 95.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-crackdown-on-dangerous-lorries-10336095.html


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jun 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Almost 100 HGVs have been taken off roads in the Square Mile in the first month of a new unit to crack down on dangerous lorries.
> 
> The City of London police’s commercial vehicle unit, funded by Transport for London, stopped 136 vehicles in May and removed 95.
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-crackdown-on-dangerous-lorries-10336095.html


Do we have any idea how many of these HGVs were tippers or skips? I suspect that the vast majority were but haven't found the report in question.


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## Blue Hills (22 Jun 2015)

spen666 said:


> You mean to make it far more dangerous for those who cycle outside of rush hour by ensuring there are far more lorries on roads at those times?
> 
> Another fact is you are appearing to assume the truck drivers are to blame. Another solution people could argue is ban the cyclists at rush hour or as its 6/8 were female deaths, lets ban females from cycling. All unacceptable I presume. They are to me
> 
> ...


I wasn't assuming that the drivers of the tipper lorries are always to blame at all. I never said such a thing. I fear that you are the one with the knee jerk reaction. In fact I have a certain problem with the name of the group Stop Killing Cyclists, particularly when they announce a die-in immediately after an unfortunate fatality, when the circumstances of the particular event can usually not then be known. If i were the innocent driver of a lorry i wouldn't want to be effectively branded a murderer.

But tipper lorries are inherently problematical and there are a massive number of prone cyclists on London's roads during the rush hour.


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## glenn forger (22 Jun 2015)

Those die-ins are stupid and pointless, IMO.


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## glenn forger (22 Jun 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Do we have any idea how many of these HGVs were tippers or skips? I suspect that the vast majority were but haven't found the report in question.



Dunno, sorry, it's also not clear if they were targeted stops. Hope so, otherwise every twelfth HGV that overtakes London cyclists shouldn't be on the roads, which is terrifying.


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## Tin Pot (22 Jun 2015)

Poor woman, and thoughts for the family.

The evening standard story had it as quite horrific. I didnt walk down that way for lunch, so thankfully I missed it.


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## deptfordmarmoset (22 Jun 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Dunno, sorry, it's also not clear if they were targeted stops. Hope so, otherwise every twelfth HGV that overtakes London cyclists shouldn't be on the roads, which is terrifying.


Road.cc reports that they were ''intelligence led'' so it's not random roadside checks. There is a partial breakdown by vehicle category of the unit's first 6 months at the bottom of here - https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/c...-review-of-first-six-months-of-operations.pdf

And it's as I suspected. An industry that often doesn't give a damn about vehicle safety, or driver hours, is not going to give a damn about other people's safety either.


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## Mrs M (22 Jun 2015)

Poor lass , sad news.


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## si_c (22 Jun 2015)

Horrible news 

BBC have a follow-up article to this today. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33224901


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## spen666 (22 Jun 2015)

Blue Hills said:


> I wasn't assuming that the drivers of the tipper lorries are always to blame at all.


....Which makes it even worse. You want to ban innocent people who do nothing wrong.

Why not ban black people? Or gays or catholics? None of them are guilty per se either.

Stupid people call for bans on other groups, and fail to realise all they are doing is making it easier for others to turn the ban on them. The Road lobby is far more powerful than the cycling lobby. Its far more likely that cyclists get banned than vehicles that are essential to the economy


> But tipper lorries are inherently problematical and there are a massive number of prone cyclists on London's roads during the rush hour.



See, you are already making the case to ban cyclists without realising it


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## Tin Pot (22 Jun 2015)

si_c said:


> Horrible news
> 
> BBC have a follow-up article to this today. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33224901


Good article, mostly.


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## benborp (22 Jun 2015)

Mmm, the use of Rhiannon Bennett’s death as ’balance’ and the lauding of Malmö's death toll being almost one tenth of London's yet only having a population 1/35 the size.
As a window on other cities' attitudes to cycling it is an interesting article, I'm afraid I found it of little use in terms of examing safety.


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## Lonestar (22 Jun 2015)

I was there standing at the lights at Bank Junction at approx 10:53am.I wondered why it looked different in the pic,it's because I was standing at the lights nearby.I had come up from Aldgate.My usual route via Fenchurch Street was shut.Also my backstreet (left hand turn on the same road) to take me to Cannon Street had been shut off also,so had to come this way.A sad sight.

R.I.P.


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## Blue Hills (22 Jun 2015)

spen666 said:


> ....Which makes it even worse. You want to ban innocent people who do nothing wrong.
> 
> Why not ban black people? Or gays or catholics? None of them are guilty per se either.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry - you are off on one - seem determined to have an argument - let's just ride our bikes.


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## glenn forger (22 Jun 2015)

benborp said:


> Mmm, the use of Rhiannon Bennett’s death as ’balance’ and the lauding of Malmö's death toll being almost one tenth of London's yet only having a population 1/35 the size.
> As a window on other cities' attitudes to cycling it is an interesting article, I'm afraid I found it of little use in terms of examing safety.



Know what the headline for that article is on the beeb homepage?

*Should cyclists rule?*


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## subaqua (23 Jun 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Almost 100 HGVs have been taken off roads in the Square Mile in the first month of a new unit to crack down on dangerous lorries.
> 
> The City of London police’s commercial vehicle unit, funded by Transport for London, stopped 136 vehicles in May and removed 95.
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-crackdown-on-dangerous-lorries-10336095.html



Again it's not a true reflection as they will have been targeted. Pick 136 at random and remove 95 I would be very very worried.


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## sidevalve (23 Jun 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Well, most cyclists killed are by lorries in central London. They also feature high in the league of pedestrian deaths. They are also found to be disproportionally unroadworthy in recent random police stops. It is also deemed acceptable to run-over a cyclist in front of you claiming that it is not possible to see them in a lorry. It also appears to be the case you can be banned several times and still be employed to drive lorries.
> 
> I think it would be quite fair to say that the current situation is not safe and that greater restrictions be placed on lorries.
> 
> This should include removing pay-per-load, increasing points/fines for infringements, safer lorries (better visibility, sensors etc) and a more rigerous checking of history before keys are given out.


It is also possible to ride a bicycle with NO idea of the highway code [never ever having bothered to read - ever] to ride with poor vision bordering on almost blindness - to never ever have had even the most rudimentary instruction or even a few 'pointers' how to ride - to ride a bike with worn out tyres no lights and only one barely functioning brake. It's always easier to blame someone else but unless you want MOTs for bikes and compusory tests for riders be carefull of what you wish for


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## Lonestar (23 Jun 2015)

Least the guys at work are experts in Road Tax/Jumping Red Lights/Headphones/No Helmet/No lights/No Hi Viz/Going up the inside of lorries and the fact that I am always having incidents when in fact I am not.


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## albion (23 Jun 2015)

We are surely all wishing for the ceasement of unnnessessary death due to bad vehicle design and practice. 

Bringing other stuff into it is in the circumstances is to put it very mildly, plain WRONG


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## glenn forger (23 Jun 2015)

sidevalve said:


> It is also possible to ride a bicycle with NO idea of the highway code [never ever having bothered to read - ever] to ride with poor vision bordering on almost blindness - to never ever have had even the most rudimentary instruction or even a few 'pointers' how to ride - to ride a bike with worn out tyres no lights and only one barely functioning brake. It's always easier to blame someone else but unless you want MOTs for bikes and compusory tests for riders be carefull of what you wish for



has a rider's poor vision or badly-maintained bike been cited in many fatalities?


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## Scoosh (23 Jun 2015)

*MOD NOTE:*
Please do NOT let this thread deteriorate into yet another lorries/ cyclists/ road-worthiness/ media/public view of cyclists etc "debate",

We have had many of those and do NOT need to re-do the same arguments every time.

This thread is about a cyclist who died on the roads of London. Please go to the other threads to argue - if argue/'discuss' you must.


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## Origamist (23 Jun 2015)

RIP Ying Tao

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...s-newly-married-oxford-graduate-10339057.html


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## glenn forger (23 Jun 2015)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Road.cc reports that they were ''intelligence led'' so it's not random roadside checks. There is a partial breakdown by vehicle category of the unit's first 6 months at the bottom of here - https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/c...-review-of-first-six-months-of-operations.pdf
> 
> And it's as I suspected. An industry that often doesn't give a damn about vehicle safety, or driver hours, is not going to give a damn about other people's safety either.



What Intelligence?


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## Blue Hills (23 Jun 2015)

Origamist said:


> RIP Ying Tao
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...s-newly-married-oxford-graduate-10339057.html


Yes, condolences to the husband.
An interesting and pointed quote from the city of london police officer in that piece.
I do find it a very confusing junction. I'm sure a lot of drivers as well as cyclists enter it wondering which exit they are going to take if they are not familiar with it. It's really a junction designed for the age of the horse and cart/carriage.
I'll try to be there for the demo/memorial tomorrow.


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## Lonestar (24 Jun 2015)

Been using it this week since they closed the Fenchurch Street Road.Not that I find the Fenchurch Street Road particularly pleasant.They have even closed the side street before Bank which I discovered recently.


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## glenn forger (24 Jun 2015)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ragic-road-death-of-newlywed-26-10340987.html


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