# 80s Raleigh Royal, or am I barking up the wrong tree...



## markc94 (13 Feb 2017)

Hi everyone!

My flatmate and I are in the market for some touring bikes, but as students everything seems to be a bit out of range price wise.

We have been looking at the Roux Etape 150 and the Adventure Flat White, but I feel that I could be better placed getting something second hand? 

The new Raleigh Royal looks like a great touring machine, but again out of our price range - is there anything to be said for the multiple 'old' raleigh royals that are to be found when scouring ebay? Or are these not really tourers?

Also, used touring bikes seem nearly impossible to come by on the web, is there anywhere in particular I should be looking?

We are considering touring the Pacific coast of the US this summer if we get sorted

Thanks!


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## oldwheels (13 Feb 2017)

You can tour on anything. Some may be more suitable than others but anything comfortable and mechanically sound will get you there. When I started my pal had an ex police bike with 28 inch wheels and double crossbar. We covered most of Scotland and bits of England with him using this bike. I had a " racer" with a single gear freewheel. We had a great time but then in teens it is easier.


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## smutchin (13 Feb 2017)

The old Raleigh Royal is a very different beast to the current model - it was hand-built from 531 steel in Nottingham, whereas the current Royal is 4130 chromoly and probably factory-made in the Far East. Not necessarily saying one is better than the other though.

I have a late-80s vintage Royal which I bought second hand in 1988, IIRC. I would say it was a very capable and fast, lightweight touring machine. I took it laden with camping gear across the Alps. Unfortunately it is now relegated to hanging decoratively on the wall of my garage because of a knackered chainstay. Not really worth the cost of repair.

Also worth noting that the old Royal was built for 27" wheels and 80s components - threaded steerer, down tube shifters etc.


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## User32269 (13 Feb 2017)

Worth looking at 80's & 90's rigid mtbs in my opinion. Still cheep. Strong steel frames that can be welded easily if disaster strikes on tour. Bombproof 26" wheels. Braze ons for racks and guards. Gears to get you up a wall.


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## markc94 (13 Feb 2017)

odav said:


> Worth looking at 80's & 90's rigid mtbs in my opinion. Still cheep. Strong steel frames that can be welded easily if disaster strikes on tour. Bombproof 26" wheels. Braze ons for racks and guards. Gears to get you up a wall.



I've seen these mentioned quite a few places, what should I look out for? Are there any particular brands/models/groupsets you recommend?


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## growingvegetables (13 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> We are considering touring the Pacific coast of the US this summer if we get sorted.


Are you based in the US .... or here (UK)? If the latter, you could do worse than consider buying a bike on craigslist? Adding the panniers, et al, there? 

I'm just through "distance-buying" a bike for a family member in Los Angeles ... yup, and I'm in Leeds. I can vouch for the fact that there is any amount of absolute c**p on Craigslist! 

But, if you know what you want, what to look for, and (more importantly) what to avoid ... there's some nice bikes to be had. As for a specifically "touring bike" - if it's comfortable, tough-and-rugged-but-reasonably-light, and can carry a load, it'll do the job .

It's what I'll do when I get round to visiting LA.


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## markc94 (13 Feb 2017)

growingvegetables said:


> Are you based in the US .... or here (UK)? If the latter, you could do worse than consider buying a bike on craigslist? Adding the panniers, et al, there?
> 
> I'm just through "distance-buying" a bike for a family member in Los Angeles ... yup, and I'm in Leeds. I can vouch for the fact that there is any amount of absolute c**p on Craigslist!
> 
> ...



UK based (Edinburgh), but I'd be a bit wary about buying a second hand bike and not having the time or equipment to modify it, if need be? I think I'd rather have the bike in hand, and see what needs changed, and then fly it over?


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## User32269 (13 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> I've seen these mentioned quite a few places, what should I look out for? Are there any particular brands/models/groupsets you recommend?


Just look for decent quality (back in the day) cro mo frame, make sure it's got all the braze ons you need for mudguards and racks. Ive liked GT bikes I've had and decent Raleighs. Can still find them with original shimano groups on, which is a testament to how rugged they are!
Google mountain bike tourer conversion for some pointers.

Edit: though I've never attempted to head across USA on one! Done OK for a weeks camping tour fully loaded.


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## Bonefish Blues (13 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> I've seen these mentioned quite a few places, what should I look out for? Are there any particular brands/models/groupsets you recommend?


I have an original steel Kona Cinder Cone that would do that duty in a heartbeat. Probably better than my 1983 Raleigh Royal (now long gone), especially as mine was pre-cantis, so braking with a load wasn't the sharpest.


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## smutchin (13 Feb 2017)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Probably better than my 1983 Raleigh Royal (now long gone), especially as mine was pre-cantis, so braking with a load wasn't the sharpest.



Did yours have the Weinmann centre-pulls? I never thought they were that bad at the time, but that may be from lack of experience of anything better. I wonder what I would make of them now...


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## Bonefish Blues (13 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> Did yours have the Weinmann centre-pulls? I never thought they were that bad at the time, but that may be from lack of experience of anything better. I wonder what I would make of them now...


It did indeed, at least to begin with, later replaced with swanky Weinmann sidepulls (were they the 510s or 610s or somesuch) with Modolo unitary pads, which whilst as dirty as anything did improve response quite markedly.


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## mmmmartin (13 Feb 2017)

if you're in edinburgh go to edinburgh cycle co-op, they know their stuff. used bikes are fine, you need to ensure they can take front and rear racks. £400 should get a decent one on ebay. dawes galaxy is OK. I prefer 26 inch wheels though.


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## markc94 (13 Feb 2017)

Where should I look for said used 90s Mountain bikes? Ebay? Or is there somewhere else cyclists tend to sell their wares?

Also I realise there must be hundreds of models, but are there any particular models that are recommended over others?


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## bigjim (13 Feb 2017)

If you come acroos a good 80s Royal snatch it up. I stopped touring on my old Royal just two years ago when the frame was damaged on a flight back from France. I have another mint condition one that is too precious to take on a plane.


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## Crackle (13 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> I've seen these mentioned quite a few places, what should I look out for? Are there any particular brands/models/groupsets you recommend?


I've a Marin Bear Valley






After about '97 they went to a suspension fork and early 90's had canti brakes. They were a popular bike so it should be easy to get hold of one. You might need to upgrade the brakes and fit a riser stem.


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## markc94 (13 Feb 2017)

All the MTB mentioned seem to have sizing in the 18" range, I'm a tall guy and currently riding an old 25" Schwinn 434, is it possible to get these bikes for bigger guys?


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## User32269 (13 Feb 2017)

5' 10" - 6' 1" 178 - 185cm 19 - 20" L
6' 1" - 6' 4" 185 - 193cm 21 - 22" XL
6 '4" - 6' 6" 193 - 198cm 23 - 24" XXL


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## mcshroom (13 Feb 2017)

If you're in Edinburgh then it would be worth finding Edinbugh Bicycle Coop and trying out their Revolution Country 1 - https://www.edinburghbicycle.com/revolution-country-1-16.html

There's no need to tour on drops though. A good hybrid will be able to tour very nicely, and usually you can find decent hybrids both new and second hand a bit cheaper than their drop-barred equivalents.


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## markc94 (14 Feb 2017)

Has anyone ever heard of the ELSWICK TURBO 12? I found one on the web that has a huge frame, looks perfect for my height. Hard to tell what the bike is like though?


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## tyred (14 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of the ELSWICK TURBO 12? I found one on the web that has a huge frame, looks perfect for my height. Hard to tell what the bike is like though?



I'm not familiar with that model but the name suggests 12 speed (2 x 6) derailleur so some sort of road racing bike from the 80s.

Elswick were a respected brand with a very long history. It probably isn't one of their nicest bikes but would be a decent steel frame (probably plain guage tubing but that's probably better for touring) and like most bikes of it's time and type I'd expect mudguard clearance and rack mounting points. It would make a perfectly good touring bike.

But, and there is a few big buts - it's probably got a 42/52 chainset and perhaps a 14-24 freewheel block so the gearing is a bit on the high side to put it mildly. If the intended route is flat(ish) it probably wouldn't matter but if you're heading for the hills with a loaded bike and that type of gearing, accept you'll be doing some walking. Changing the block for a 14-28 (cheap enough from ebay) would help a little but to build it into a good touring bike you'd really need to swap the chainset for something with a smaller inner ring.

It's highly probably it's got chrome rims too so stopping the loaded bike on a wet day on a steep descent could prove "interesting." Manageable but you'd need to ride with anticipation. Basic 700c or 27" alloy wheelsets can be bought for ~£70 from ebay and they work fine in my experience. My first few tours were done on cheap wheels like that without issue. Just adjust and grease the bearings before fitting as they are always too tight from the factory.


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## Milkfloat (14 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of the ELSWICK TURBO 12? I found one on the web that has a huge frame, looks perfect for my height. Hard to tell what the bike is like though?



I looked at that exact bike today and thought it was incredibly over priced.


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## markc94 (14 Feb 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> I looked at that exact bike today and thought it was incredibly over priced.



The one for £200 on eBay? That's where my inexperience comes in - I thought it wasn't too bad!


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## Grant Fondo (14 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> I've seen these mentioned quite a few places, what should I look out for? Are there any particular brands/models/groupsets you recommend?


Seen some 90s Cannondale M500s on Ebay, have got one and great touring bike, original Sun rims are bombproof but upgrade original cantis to Avids, cheap and worth it.


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## markc94 (14 Feb 2017)

Grant Fondo said:


> Seen some 90s Cannondale M500s on Ebay, have got one and great touring bike, original Sun rims are bombproof but upgrade original cantis to Avids, cheap and worth it.



All I can find is a frame for one in Poland at the minute  but I'll keep an eye out, thanks!


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## oldwheels (15 Feb 2017)

In Edinburgh there is bound to be a charity which recycles used bikes and sells then on to benefit the charity. In Glasgow there are a couple of places ( like Common Wheel ) and one in Bridgeton somewhere. The bikes are refurbished and I got one a few years ago from Common Wheel. The only thing they do not do is repaint. Not familiar with Edinburgh but I am sure if you ask around you will find such a place.


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## Crackle (15 Feb 2017)

markc94 said:


> All the MTB mentioned seem to have sizing in the 18" range, I'm a tall guy and currently riding an old 25" Schwinn 434, is it possible to get these bikes for bigger guys?


Mtn bike sizing is not the same as road bike sizing. 18" would be a large bike in a mtn bike frame. Probably suitable for someone over 6'. It will vary according to manufacturer, so some research might be needed but in general a 15" bike is small, 17 medium and 18, large.


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## uphillstruggler (15 Feb 2017)

90s ridgeback from the 600 range, should do just fine


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

oldwheels said:


> l. We had a great time but then in teens it is easier.


 

Yes, you can do anything at that age - it's all new/an adventure. Barring death (very unlikely) you can do anything. An old friend of mine remembers a scottish tour with a friend in their student days. The friend turned up on a bike with 2 punctures. They had a great time.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

uphillstruggler said:


> 90s ridgeback from the 600 range, should do just fine


Just arrived here - you are ahead of me.
I don't know the 600 range (steel mtb?) But yes i would recommend pretty much any steel (but not high tension steel) 90s ridgeback, mtb or hybrid. Hybrid better for on road.


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## MarkF (17 Feb 2017)

You could spend a lot of time looking for the "right" tourer when you could easily just get a "right" hybrid for the job. The web is littered with hardly used hybrids bought by people intending to ride/lose weight and then giving up very quickly, there are great bargains to be had and little risk in bikes with so few miles under their wheels.

I've posted this many times before...............my tourer was stolen just before I set off on 1000 mile tour of Spain, I bought a 3 month old Specialized Sirrus for £200 from a local guy and with only a change of tyres flew out to Bilbao a few days later. It was just fine and when I returned I put it on Ebay where it sold for £365. 

Specialized Sirrus, Trek FX, Dawes Discovery, I'd happily do your trip on any one of those. Get the right size for you, stick some bar ends and rack on it and off you go...........

I have both steel & aluminium hybrids at the mo' and wouldn't really have a preference as to which to take on my next tour.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

OP, Mark speaks/writes great sense.

Always amuses me the way many folk use the word "hybrid" with a silent "it's only a" before - oh the ignorant fools


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## smutchin (17 Feb 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Always amuses me the way many folk use the word "hybrid" with a silent "it's only a" before - oh the ignorant fools



Most bikes these days are 'hybrids' of some description.

It's like dogs - the fashion in dog ownership is for cockerpoos, labradoodles, puggles and other designer breeds that aim to blend particular qualities of different pedigree breeds. The 'adventure' bike is the cockerpoo of the cycling world.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

mmmmartin said:


> you need to ensure they can take front and rear racks. .



Yes, though not a great problem as long as you get a completely steel frame.

I always prefer two mounts at the rear so that the mudguards and rack can be mounted separately - you can of course double them up but a bit more of a fiddle and two gives you redundancy - one of the mounts on a favoured old hybrid of mine broke off (maybe my fault) but at least I had a fall back of then mounting guards and rack on a single mount.

Don't get hung up about front mounts OP.

If you want to take front bags and your chosen bike has no mid fork mounts but is steel, you can just fasten these to the forks:

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article...467.MTEzNTM5&gclid=CPSu17bvltICFW0A0wod6_0Erg


Made by Tubus, who make racks to take folk round the world so you can be sure that they are solid.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> Most bikes these days are 'hybrids' of some description.
> 
> It's like dogs - the fashion in dog ownership is for cockerpoos, labradoodles, puggles and other designer breeds that aim to blend particular qualities of different pedigree breeds. The 'adventure' bike is the cockerpoo of the cycling world.


well yes, and hence some of Ridgebacks new tourers look not too different from my 20 year old Ridgeback hybrids 
Hybrids came in in the 90s I think - merged aspects of MTBs and road bikes - they are actually what got me into cycling.
People do still use the term dismissively though.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

mcshroom said:


> I
> 
> There's no need to tour on drops though..



Yes - OP - I don't think you stated a preference - unless you have a very particular reason for favouring drops, I'd go flat bar with bar ends for all sorts of reasons.


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## smutchin (17 Feb 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> People do still use the term dismissively though.



I guess that comes from the view that a 'hybrid' is neither one thing nor the other and therefore not as good as either. Thinking of hybrids as 'designer breeds' rather than 'mongrels' might help to dispel such ideas.


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

Hi Mark

If you could beg/borrow/sell/rent a bit of your body or whatever, this would be a bargain:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=112386

You might find that you love touring in which case you are set for a lot of your life with a bargain.

If not, you could probably sell it post trip for what you paid for it.

I wouldn't use it around town though, not unless double locked.


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## biggs682 (17 Feb 2017)

An 80's Royal would be good or try looking for the later 853 tubed ones which had canti brakes

But at the end of the day you can tour on anything as long as its reliable

Back in the day when i use to tour with the local ctc i would have been happy to tour on this G.E.R. Lomas retro road bike and still would today in all fairness it would be ideal


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## Blue Hills (17 Feb 2017)

I'd avoid anything that had the old standard wheel size close to but not quite 700c though.

Doubtless some kind soul can remind me/the thread what it's called without telling me to google it.

Tyres and tubes can be obtained but not without difficulty.


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## mcshroom (17 Feb 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> I'd avoid anything that had the old standard wheel size close to but not quite 700c though.
> 
> Doubtless some kind soul can remind me/the thread what it's called without telling me to google it.
> 
> Tyres and tubes can be obtained but not without difficulty.


27 inch?


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## mcshroom (17 Feb 2017)

smutchin said:


> I guess that comes from the view that a 'hybrid' is neither one thing nor the other and therefore not as good as either. Thinking of hybrids as 'designer breeds' rather than 'mongrels' might help to dispel such ideas.


I agree, and to be honest if a bike is an out and out 'Thoroughbred' like a full-sus DH bike or a feather-light road bike with paper-thin clearances, then it's probably not going to fit with what you want to do with it most of the time IMHO.

For touring I think hybrids are fine. The difference between my tourer and hybrid is mainly the type of bars really. I've toured on both, and though I prefer the tourer as I like drops and it's a steel frame, I wouldn't have any qualms about touring on the hybrid again.


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## bigjim (17 Feb 2017)

mcshroom said:


> 27 inch?


I don't have a problem sourceing 27" tyres for my Raleighs. Big name manufacturers still selling them and the tubes are the same as 700c. I would have thought it would be even easier in the states. There are a lot of old bikes around still using 27". You can still buy new wheels easily enough.


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## bigjim (17 Feb 2017)

This guy has an interesting touring bike perspective. Careful you don't fall asleep though.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYPw6SDz2l0&t=963s


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## Blue Hills (18 Feb 2017)

bigjim said:


> I don't have a problem sourceing 27" tyres for my Raleighs. Big name manufacturers still selling them and the tubes are the same as 700c. I would have thought it would be even easier in the states. There are a lot of old bikes around still using 27". You can still buy new wheels easily enough.


Thanks for the correction. Yes, silly me, suppose the tubes are the same.
Are tyres generally available in your average shop though or would you have to go online.

I do, by the way, and strangely, have such a bike - given to me by my late dad but never really ridden.


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## uphillstruggler (18 Feb 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Just arrived here - you are ahead of me.
> I don't know the 600 range (steel mtb?) But yes i would recommend pretty much any steel (but not high tension steel) 90s ridgeback, mtb or hybrid. Hybrid better for on road.



Over in the photo gallery there's a thread by @cyberknight called drop bar mtb, mine is pictures in there. I don't have the image on my phone.

The thread will also outline some potential options for @markc94 although the hybrid route also sounds like a good option


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## Blue Hills (18 Feb 2017)

Has the OP, who maybe hasn't been around for a while, got round to telling us whether he favours strsight or drop bars?


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## bigjim (19 Feb 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> Thanks for the correction. Yes, silly me, suppose the tubes are the same.
> Are tyres generally available in your average shop though or would you have to go online.
> 
> I do, by the way, and strangely, have such a bike - given to me by my late dad but never really ridden.


My LBS stocks them, Halfords sell them.


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## markc94 (19 Feb 2017)

Haven't looked here in a while! Thanks for all the help! Especially @Blue Hills your advice has been great!

I prefer drops to flats, just for the range of positions. I like getting down close to the bike too going down hills!


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## Blue Hills (19 Feb 2017)

ah if you prefer drops I'll defer to other folks on here who know way way more than me on such things.

My comments on 90s hybrids all related to straight bars.

all the best, good luck, you will definitely get good advice on here.


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