# Exhibition Road



## dellzeqq (5 Jan 2012)

there's a poll. I'm not interested in speculation. The poll is for those who've been there


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## slowmotion (5 Jan 2012)

Is there a cycle scheme or is this a poll about dodgy 1960/1970 architecture?


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## dellzeqq (6 Jan 2012)

it's a traffic scheme - and worth a visit


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## Flying Dodo (8 Jan 2012)

I went along it a few weeks before Christmas on a bike, and have been along there a few times on foot during last year whilst they were working on it.

I think it looks quite striking. Anything that slows cars and (hopefully) makes the drivers realise they're not top of the heap is a good thing.


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## thom (9 Jan 2012)

A worthwhile constructive experiment at the very least - something will be learnt ;-)


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## dellzeqq (9 Jan 2012)

thom said:


> A worthwhile constructive experiment at the very least - something will be learnt ;-)


the word experiment is a good one. There are people on the wilder fringes of cycle campaigning (trans. blogging) who despise Exhibition Road. But, then again, one thing is certain. You can't be certain unless you give it a go....


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## thom (9 Jan 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> the word experiment is a good one. There are people on the wilder fringes of cycle campaigning (trans. blogging) who despise Exhibition Road. But, then again, one thing is certain. You can't be certain unless you give it a go....


I think London just has to work out it's own solutions - it never will be like Copenhagen. It is nice to see an appetite to try something vaguely radical. Hopefully any criticism will only lead to an even better solution but designing busy junctions are more meaningful for a cyclist.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Jan 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> the word experiment is a good one. There are people on the wilder fringes of cycle campaigning (trans. blogging) who despise Exhibition Road. But, then again, one thing is certain. You can't be certain unless you give it a go....


One of the most entertaining campaigners bloggers I find to be easy as riding a bike.  No idea where he gets the time but he a local lad so I like to support him.

Exhibition Road gets a mention today in between all the "it's not fair" why isn't Horsham Groenigen?, why isn't London Copenhagen? posturing.


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## dellzeqq (9 Jan 2012)

he's been here, and, judging by the snippy quoting of yours truly, is still smarting. See Campaigns above.....


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## Richard Mann (10 Jan 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> he's been here, and, judging by the snippy quoting of yours truly, is still smarting. See Campaigns above.....


 
I've tried to give him a bit of an understanding of your point-of-view (he seemed to have you down as a supporter of shared surface everywhere). There's probably some common ground on generally taming the traffic.


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## theclaud (10 Jan 2012)

I like it. My first encounter with it was approaching from the North end on a very wet evening with skinny tyres and heavy panniers, and seeing the unexpected surface ahead I made a quick decision to avoid it and divert via Prince Consort Rd and Queensgate. However on the way back I went North on it with DZ and I thought it looked great and was starting to work - some of the pedestrians using it were clearly still expecting to be casually maimed having the audacity to cross, and looked surprised when we stopped or slowed, but others were getting the hang of the idea that the space belonged to them.


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## jonesy (10 Jan 2012)

Richard Mann said:


> I've tried to give him a bit of an understanding of your point-of-view (he seemed to have you down as a supporter of shared surface everywhere). There's probably some common ground on generally taming the traffic.


 
There's been an ongoing debate in Local Transport Today (subscription access) about shared space- have you seen it? Behind some of the criticisms being made of the recent DfT report led by Stuart Reid of MVA (formerly of CTC) seems to be the same implied straw man than advocates of shared space are not also supportive of traffic restraint, speed reduction and re-allocation of roadspace. Which is very frustrating, as I don't know anyone in favour of shared space who doesn't see it as one tool amongst many to be used as appropriate, depending on local circumstances, practicalities, resources available etc.


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## martint235 (10 Jan 2012)

Ashford put in quite a bit of shared space in 2010. I found it quite confusing on a bike the first time I went through it but then once you get the idea that you're not meant to be going quick across it, it kind of works. If I was commuting, I'd probably find a way around it though.


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## Richard Mann (11 Jan 2012)

jonesy said:


> There's been an ongoing debate in Local Transport Today (subscription access) about shared space- have you seen it? Behind some of the criticisms being made of the recent DfT report led by Stuart Reid of MVA (formerly of CTC) seems to be the same implied straw man than advocates of shared space are not also supportive of traffic restraint, speed reduction and re-allocation of roadspace. Which is very frustrating, as I don't know anyone in favour of shared space who doesn't see it as one tool amongst many to be used as appropriate, depending on local circumstances, practicalities, resources available etc.


 
Unfortunately, when the designs hit the real world, it's very hard to persist with absolutely-no-cues, whether that be following the car in front, or hints in the geometry. And when you're spending millions on a scheme, the design needs to be robust to the real world.


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## dellzeqq (11 Jan 2012)

one thing's for certain - the Exhibition Road scheme is very expensive. It's not happening on Streatham High Road any time soon

I'm not sure that it's shared space though. You can't just park or ride or drive where you want. You can walk where you want, but the arrangements made for vehicles and bicycles imply an arrangement that pedestrians stick to. In essence what you have is pedestrian zones and pedestrian priority outside those zones. If memory serves, Lucien Kroll's schemes back in the 80s were shared space - park where you want, drive where you want, but everybody had to wait for everybody else. The schemes relied on the vehicles being socialised. I say 'if memory serves' because his website, which is getting on a bit, shows parking spaces. The illustrations I saw back in 1989 didn't


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## GrumpyGregry (11 Jan 2012)

Richard Mann said:


> Unfortunately, when the designs hit the real world, it's very hard to persist with absolutely-no-cues, whether that be following the car in front, or hints in the geometry. And when you're spending millions on a scheme, the design needs to be robust to the real world.


The (psuedo) shared space in the Carfax Horsham won several prizes when it was introduced. It was brilliant to be a pedestrian for a year or so with the cars crawling through at a crawl. Over time local drivers have got used to it and it now only slows down visitors.

I now realise I've used Exhibition Road as a pedestrian several times and as a borisbiker once since the scheme was built. So I didn't even notice it!


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## Dan B (11 Jan 2012)

I was there last night, but there wasn't sufficient volume of either pedestrians or vehicles to see if it was working in practice. It still _looks_ like a nice wide straight road with good sightlines and has tactile paving to mark the edge of the carriageway, so ...

If it were my design I'd have moved the streetlights into the carriageway area and forced the cars to slalom around them. That would have slowed them down much more effectively.


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## AlexB (12 Jan 2012)

I love it, but the downside is the Museum, where I work, has closed the entrance from our car park (and cycle parking) to Exhibition Road, so I have to go through Imperial College, loop back down through Queensgate and in via our rear entrance.


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## CopperBrompton (13 Jan 2012)

I like it as a pedestrian, but avoid it as a cyclist.


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## Watt-O (16 Jan 2012)

Isn't it attempting to mimic parts of Amsterdam? I don't like these ambiguous open spaces where pedestrian, cyclist or indeed motor vehicle don't know who has priority. Consider the exit from Sloane Sq. Stn (okay, on a much smaller scale) where they have put in sort of pedestrian only area. Nine times out of ten, when I emerge onto the street from The Tube, I seem to fall foul of one type of vehicle or another.


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## CopperBrompton (16 Jan 2012)

No, Amsterdam is mostly either entirely segregated cycle paths:







or very clearly-marked (and generally very wide) paths on the road:






There is a little ambiguous shared space, but it's not the norm.


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## dellzeqq (16 Jan 2012)

Watt-O said:


> Isn't it attempting to mimic parts of Amsterdam? I don't like these ambiguous open spaces where pedestrian, cyclist or indeed motor vehicle don't know who has priority. Consider the exit from Sloane Sq. Stn (okay, on a much smaller scale) where they have put in sort of pedestrian only area. Nine times out of ten, when I emerge onto the street from The Tube, I seem to fall foul of one type of vehicle or another.


I don't think it's an attempt to mimic anything. It's not even like anything. It's just what it is, where it is. The cutthrough at Sloane Square is a kind of pedestrian crossing without the stripes - which is, again, what it is, where it is.....


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## Watt-O (23 Jan 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> I don't think it's an attempt to mimic anything. It's not even like anything. It's just what it is, where it is. The cutthrough at Sloane Square is a kind of pedestrian crossing without the stripes - which is, again, what it is, where it is.....


 
Whatever it is, it's not a very smart design.


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## dellzeqq (9 Feb 2012)

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/smart-streets-bbc-radio-program.95296/#post-1717201 for an interview with the designer


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## Richard Mann (11 Feb 2012)

Getting it's first real test, what with half term.

The bit south of Prince Consort Road works well, though I'd have parallel parking between the lamp-posts and an even wider pavement from the Science Museum southwards. Particularly outside the back entrance to the Natural History Museum, where people were queuing on the pavement (and a little comedy of Israeli and Palestinian leafleters were adding to the melee).

North of Prince Consort Road, the switch to using the full road width is a complete mistake. The traffic should be two-way on the east side (and that should continue across the lights and into the park).

The Range Rover turning right into Prince Consort Road clearly had problems with giving way to pedestrians crossing a side road, fancy treatment or not (and was roundly abused for his pains - not by me). Good to see pedestrians asserting their priority, but there's clearly insufficient cues to drivers (yet).

In terms of doing something similar elsewhere, I'd have said that 90% of the effect is from reducing the width of the road by half (and banning a number of turning moves), and 10% from the level surface and fancy paving.


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## dellzeqq (12 Feb 2012)

Richard Mann said:


> North of Prince Consort Road, the switch to using the full road width is a complete mistake. The traffic should be two-way on the east side (and that should continue across the lights and into the park)..


absolutely. That seems to me to be the big failure.

I think you're right about the paving, but, again, these things have to be tried at least once, and where better than Exhibition Road? Let's content ourselves with knowing that the paving was a waste of time and money, as opposed to suspecting that the paving would be a waste of time and money.

Could the entire road be turned in to one gigantic zebra crossing? And, again, could the 'car zone' shift from side to side, using parking or small gardens?

You say that there's a lack of cues to drivers, but when I last went down it there were red signs every twenty yards or so. Had these been taken away, or do you mean something other than signs?


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## Richard Mann (13 Feb 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> You say that there's a lack of cues to drivers, but when I last went down it there were red signs every twenty yards or so. Had these been taken away, or do you mean something other than signs?


 
Red signs were all completely gone.

The only "temporary" sign was an additional keep left bollard just south of Prince Consort Road (where the traffic switches to being on the east side only).


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## gaz (13 Feb 2012)

dellzeqq said:


> one thing's for certain - the Exhibition Road scheme is very expensive. It's not happening on Streatham High Road any time soon


Could it ever happen to streatham high road?
It's a major route from london to the south.


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## dawesome (16 Feb 2012)

A man suffered head injuries when he became the first to be knocked down in Exhibition Road since it was turned into a "shared space" for pedestrians and drivers.
The victim, 25, was in collision with a Scania lorry less than two weeks after the new layout was officially opened by Mayor Boris Johnson and senior Kensington and Chelsea councillors.
The £29 million redesign of Exhibition Road - home to the Victoria & Albert Museum, Natural History Museum and Science Museum - allows drivers and pedestrians to mix on a high-grade Chinese granite surface.
The redesign levelled the road and pavement, with no yellow lines or road signs to mark the two surfaces, only textured paving to assist blind people.
Officials had hoped the new 20mph speed limit would cut accidents by 30 per cent.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...t-crash-on-shared-space-of-exhibition-road.do


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

I drove down there last year and parked in the Imperial college car park as we went to the NH museum on bit of a flying visit and had a baby in a push chair so didn't want to park miles from there. Full of road works which looked like being done to block pave the entire road. Quite hard to negotiate as a pedestrian though, but then it was full of work men and traffic cones and half finished. I'm not the greatest fan of shared spaces. We have one in Gloucester by the docks, and it has caused a lot of confusion on all sides.


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## srw (16 Feb 2012)

dawesome said:


> Officials had hoped the new 20mph speed limit would cut accidents by 30 per cent.


 One person has been injured in two weeks, not seriously. What was the accident rate last year?


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

srw said:


> One person has been injured in two weeks, not seriously. What was the accident rate last year?


 Even with the road works, it was a very busy space when I visited with people stepping out whenever without looking to cross the road. More people, more confusion, more opportuunities to connect with otheer people, cyclists or vehicles. I would have thought the best thingwould be to have a lot more crossings strategically placed, and a 20mph limit.


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## srw (16 Feb 2012)

Linford said:


> Even with the road works, it was a very busy space when I visited with people stepping out whenever without looking to cross the road. More people, more confusion, more opportuunities to connect with otheer people, cyclists or vehicles. I would have thought the best thingwould be to have a lot more crossings strategically placed, and a 20mph limit.


 One person has been injured in two weeks, not seriously. What was the accident rate last year?


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## ianrauk (16 Feb 2012)

It's a lovely looking road now.
They should just bite the bullet and close it to cars.
It would make for a great thoroughfare for peds & tourists.


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

srw said:


> One person has been injured in two weeks, not seriously. What was the accident rate last year?


 
No Idea TBH, mine is only the opinion from walking it and driving it on a saturday when all the work was going on.


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

ianrauk said:


> It's a lovely looking road now.
> They should just bite the bullet and close it to cars.
> It would make for a great thoroughfare for peds & tourists.


 
Not really sure of the geography of the area, but it loked like a main thoroughfare. Blockingthese off only pushes the problems elsewhere or creates new ones in the residential backroads around it.


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## ianrauk (16 Feb 2012)

Linford said:


> Not really sure of the geography of the area, but it loked like a main thoroughfare. Blockingthese off only pushes the problems elsewhere or creates new ones in the residential backroads around it.


 

Who cares, let car drivers worry about that.
They said the same about Trafalgar Square being pedestrianised and it's turned out fine and now the Square is a joy to visit rather then chancing death trying to get to it.

Exhibition Road has some of the worlds greatest museums which draws in millions of tourists every year so the powers that be should embrace a road closure.


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## theclaud (16 Feb 2012)

srw said:


> One person has been injured in two weeks, not seriously. What was the accident rate last year?



There you go again with your sensible questions! Isn't the vague one-off impression of a 4x4 pilot from Cheltenham before the road was finished enough for you???


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

1726038 said:


> make it harder and harder to get about by car incrementally until people give it up.
> 
> Imagine a merekat smiley


 
I'm struggling a bit with that as I also had the MIL in the car as well who uses a wheelchair with any distance more than about 30 yards. Not everybody has the mobility of the average cyclist.


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

User said:


> Yebbut, without all the cars clogging up the system, accessible public transport would be so much better for your MIL.


 
I did say it was a lighting visit, and not an overnight affair. When I say 30 yards, She walks 30 yards, she is done in for the day. She can get out of it and wander around for a little bit in the immediate vicinity but she couldn't do a hike. She is either car or wheelchair and is very unsteady on her feet after a couple of strokes. Waiting around for public transport to turn up and taking half a dozen buses from a park and ride to negotiate the capital is not something I'd even contemplate. The strokes mean she has some of her marbles, but not all, so she couldn't be left unattended at all for fear she'd have a fall. It is a bit sad really and a horrible part of the ageing process if you get caught by it.


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## Linford (16 Feb 2012)

1726403 said:


> That sounds awful and I can see how it us very much easier for her to get about being driven. It is a fair way towards one end if the mobility spectrum though as is tour contrasting example the mobility of the average cyclist. In between there is an overwhelming majority of people who really do not need to clutter up the place with their dangerous, noisy, smelly and unwelcome cars.


 
All very sad really, she was a second mum to my kids when my missus was in work when they were younger. She really was brilliant, an absolute rock, and the kids absolutely treasure her  . She was into walking for miles over the hills, and take walking holidays (only 8 or 9 years go). Strokes can do that though, and caused by high blood pressure. Had about 3 over the space of about 2 weeks. If you or yours suffer from it, the consequences of not controlling it can be horrendous.


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