# How does being a cyclist affect your driving?



## mickle (29 Sep 2021)

Above and beyond the minimum behaviour requirements of the highway code or the driving test. I drive differently because I'm a cyclist and to make life easier and safer for cyclists I share the road with. 

In stop - start traffic I leave a decent gap to the car in front in case a cyclist needs to change lanes or dip in to get out of incoming traffic.

I've trained myself to always check in the left side mirror before pulling away to make sure there's no one in the process of scooting down my nearside.

I hold back a long way before attempting an overtake, pass wide and slow and leave tons of space before I pull back in. I don't overtake unless I can achieve all that.

How does being a cyclist influence the way you drive?


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## Dolorous Edd (29 Sep 2021)

I drive as fast as possible so I can waste less time driving and spend more time cycling.


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## HMS_Dave (29 Sep 2021)

Pretty much the same as you.

I know im going to sound like a geek here but:

Last Sunday i drove to a clinic in Stafford. Just past Milford, on the way, there was a cyclist who had 2 drivers overtake him on blind bends. When it came my turn, i refrained until we (me and the cyclist) was around the next corner which wasn't immediate and gave him huge wide berth when i did overtake and was clear. He thumbed up in acknowledgement but i really wasn't trying to score points here. Since starting cycling again 2 years ago, i really am way more conscious of cyclists and try to respect them more. I don't think i was ever bad before, but perhaps didn't give it as much thought.

It takes one to know one...


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## Drago (29 Sep 2021)

It doesn't. I was trained to driver properly in the first place.


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## Gillstay (29 Sep 2021)

I still do fast glances over the shoulder at times when i need to be certain no one is in a blind spot, such as a motorbike.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (29 Sep 2021)

I was a motorcyclist before being a driver then also a cyclist. Had a great instructor (but he also had an experienced pupil who could drive thanks to years of farms and tractors) and I'm also a member of the Institute of advanced motorists. It's fair to say I have a fair grasp of the concept of forward planning and positioning, IPSGA/TUG and driving/riding around vulnerable road users from not only being one - but doing support roles at open races and other such events.


Drago said:


> It doesn't. I was trained to driver properly in the first place.


And this


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## gcogger (29 Sep 2021)

I was used to cycling on busy roads long before I learned to drive. I think that experience helped a huge amount with my observation skills, something that was commented on by my driving instructor.


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## fossyant (29 Sep 2021)

I avoid pot holes


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## Arrowfoot (29 Sep 2021)

While driving I tend to notice cyclists, their bike model and gear and even how they ride. I did come across a chap in his 50s in lycra, an expensive bike with too high a seat post. From afar his hip movement was noticeable. Out of curiosity how cyclist handle roundabout. 

I don't think it changed my manner of driving, just more observant of cyclists on the road. .


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## Brandane (29 Sep 2021)

I've progressed through the ranks from tricycle to bicycle, to motor bike, car, van, HGV class 2, then HGV class 1. 
Each one helps you to realise the problems faced by another.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Sep 2021)

Drive two abreast, weave between road and pavement, and jump red lights. Have a black car and do not turn lights on when it’s dark.


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## All uphill (29 Sep 2021)

Because I drive less and cycle more than I did previously I am always in consciously competent mode, rather than driving on auto pilot.

Ms AU says I'm much more methodical, which is easier on her as a passenger.


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## presta (29 Sep 2021)

In general:
Cyclists are safer car drivers says insurance specialist - Ci4C (carinsurance4cyclists.com)


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## newfhouse (29 Sep 2021)

mickle said:


> How does being a cyclist influence the way you drive?





All uphill said:


> I drive less


Exactly this. Removing my car from the road is the biggest contribution I can make.


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## ebikeerwidnes (29 Sep 2021)

Dolorous Edd said:


> I drive as fast as possible so I can waste less time driving and spend more time cycling.


And blow your horn at those damn cyclists deliberately getting in your way when you NEED to get to your bike.

Entitled gits the lot of them!!!


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## ebikeerwidnes (29 Sep 2021)

When I was a kid - and then learning to drive - we often went to North Wales on Bank Holidays and nice weekends

there were queues - those from the Wirral and other such areas will know where 

Sometimes motorbike would move down the middle of the lanes
some drivers would deliberately move to close the gap and stop them

My Dad would comment that it was one less vehicel in the queue and why not just let them through

same applies to cyclists - my Dad used to cycle around Liverpool when he was a kid - probably influenced his driving

I reckon cycling has made me more observant and more likely to notice people - and give way and help people

I think it has also meant that I am more likely to spot idiots on Motorways and just sigh and let them go off - on the basis that if they are infront of me I can react to their stupidity in a safe manner
same as I do for drivers when I am cycling


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## Milkfloat (29 Sep 2021)

I get a close as possible to the cyclists so I can check out their bikes and clothing, sometimes close enough to see if they have removed their valve caps to save weight.


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## ebikeerwidnes (29 Sep 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I get a close as possible to the cyclists so I can check out their bikes and clothing, sometimes close enough to see if they have removed their valve caps to save weight.


Just as long as you know that the concept of the sticky bottle include an element of consent
especially if there is a difference in genders

just to make sure


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## Drago (30 Sep 2021)

Being a cycle trainer has had a more profound affect on my driving.

I notice stuff like poor positioning, poor technique, poor obs drills, etc, and then keep an even wider berth.


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## Mo1959 (30 Sep 2021)

I always remember when I was learning to drive and coming up to sitting my test, my instructor telling me that the examiner at the time was a keen cyclist and to make sure I gave any cyclists a wide berth.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Sep 2021)

mickle said:


> In stop - start traffic I leave a decent gap to the car in front





mickle said:


> I've trained myself to always check in the left side mirror before pulling away





mickle said:


> I hold back a long way before attempting an overtake


Interestingly these are all taught as basics on a RoSPA or IAM course. 
"Tyres and tarmac", i.e. in stationary traffic you should be able to see the rear tyres of the car in front plus some road surface. It allows for better maneuvering, gives space from the car in front in case of a shunt behind, and it's better for observation all round. 
Both mirrors should be checked before pulling away for the exact reason you state, plus it's just good situational awareness. 
Overtaking is taught exactly as you describe, you start from a long way back and hold off until the overtake is appropriate and safe. 

So well done on self teaching! 
I'd recommend a RoSPA or IAM course to anyone, they systematically change how you drive and they engrain some really good habits and practices.


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## Pale Rider (30 Sep 2021)

CanucksTraveller said:


> some really good habits



I did an IAM course for a feature and remember 'tyres and tarmac'.

The instructor didn't like the use of 'good habits' because a habit is something you do automatically, whereas each driving decision should be taken consciously.

As part of a court case involving a copper accused of death by careless driving, we spent a long time going through the ins and outs of the Cleveland Police driving manual.

Hardly a rip roaring read, but one phrase in it I liked, and which I still use, is 'drive to arrive'.

That was in reference to emergency response, but it applies to all of us.


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## ebikeerwidnes (30 Sep 2021)

I did the IAM test many many years ago - it really made you realise how much you were missing and improved observation dramatically.

It was after that when I started spotting more and more idiots on motorways - often before they did anything wrong.
My wife has often commented that, when we drive long distances, I am often taking avoiding action for something that hasn't happened yet. That is from the IAM course
It was long time ago - I have probably forgotten a lot - should probably have another go??


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## BoldonLad (30 Sep 2021)

To begin, I was a pedestrian, then, I learned to ride a bicycle. I took "proper" lessons to learn to ride a Motorcycle, and, drive a car. I like to think I was taught correctly, and, I passed both tests (car and motorcycle) at first attempt. However, being a pedestrian, driving different size vehicles, plus cycling and riding a motorcycle has, I believe, given me greater understanding of the challenges facing others. 

IMHO, anyone who claims to be a perfect driver, (or motorcyclist, or cyclist) should be banned from that activity. I would have included Pedestrian, but, I think a ban on walking may infringe Human Rights?


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## hatler (1 Oct 2021)

Cycling has made my driving use less fuel. On a bike you learn the importance of keeping rolling, and I have migrated that habit into my driving.


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## DaveReading (1 Oct 2021)

Cycling has helped me do track stands in my car whenever I'm stationary.


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## robjh (1 Oct 2021)

I know my routes into town as a cyclist. In a car I happily drove through a buses and cycles only sign and earnt myself a £60 fine. No complaints, it's a tax on stupidity.


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## Smokin Joe (2 Oct 2021)

If you arrive at your destination without giving anyone else cause to remember you then you've had a good drive.


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## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

My Dad taught me to drive. He was a RoSPA trainer, one of the few that weren't ex dibble. We'd go out for a few hours and if I did something wrong the offending hand would get a smack with a steel rule - I damn well never made the same mistake twice! By the end of a typical lesson my hands were bloody tatters but, I passed first go.

It stood me in good stead when I went to roads policing in the late 90's, breezed through my class one. 

RoSPA/IAM are roughly equivalent to the old police class 4, which is a little way south of the current police 'standard' or SRP ticket, absolutely nowehere near police 'advanced' as class 1 is now called. Its a bit cheeky calling the civilian ones 'advanced' when they teach so little of the system, but I guess 'a little better than the average cager' doesn't exactly trip off the tongue.

For all that, I don't enjoy driving and avoid it as much as possible. Conversely, im a hopeless motorcyclist but love it. The good news is that I know im hopeless and take things very steady, never had an off.


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## bikingdad90 (2 Oct 2021)

Had a classic must get in front driver today and got beeped at! I followed a group of cyclists along bridge road in Darlington, the group had split in two and the road was only wide enough for three cars in total. 

I hung back as Bridge Road has a bit of a dip in it with a blind summit, after we crest I waited until I could overtake the first group safely with a 2metre gap and pull back in before overtaking the second group. Well this bobber of a city 2WD SUV couldn’t be bothered to wait and tried to overtake me and the cyclists at the same time, just as I was about to pull out and over take as a clear gap had opened up on the opposite carriage way.

I took great delight in receiving a blast of the horn from the driver behind for his self arrogance and inability to wait when he had to pull back in and abort his manoeuvre to allow me to overtake safely

Once I was safely passed he overtook the cyclists safely like I did and then followed me all the way to the roundabout where he went a different way to me. 

Why this driver couldn’t have waited 30 seconds longer is beyond me!


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## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

Most car on car overtakes are pointless. Odds are you'll catch them at fhe next roundabout, or turn off before they do, thus negating the stress, effort, danger and wear and tear. Unless someone is being ridiculously tardy its not worth the bother.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Apparently cyclists are to blame the queues at petrol stations.


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## Drago (2 Oct 2021)

Perhaps we should organise a few forum rides, touring petrol stations and grinning inanely at the cagers?


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Perhaps we should organise a few forum rides, touring petrol stations and grinning inanely at the cagers?



And ringing our bells as we pass shouting stop obstructing the road


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## Profpointy (2 Oct 2021)

Slightly OT but the thing that improved my driving a lot was my motorcycle training which I did maybe 5 years after my car test. The bike stuff introduced a much more systematic approach to observing with the so-called "lifesaver" over the shoulder glance before indicating and again before actual manoeuvre. Whilst I didn't drive agressively before (albeit had had a too-fast phase I'd outgrown by then) and did leave space and look a good way ahead, this more systematic approach resulted in very rarely being surprised or caught out. I don't know if it was specifically the bike lessons or whether car licence training had improved in the meantime but there was definitely a before and after improvement in my driving safety. As I'd always cycled I can't really say what the difference that made other than being aware of left hooking and giving space


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## Solocle (3 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Most car on car overtakes are pointless. Odds are you'll catch them at fhe next roundabout, or turn off before they do, thus negating the stress, effort, danger and wear and tear. Unless someone is being ridiculously tardy its not worth the bother.


What about bike on car overtakes? Sure, they turned off shortly afterwards, but it was fun!

View: https://youtu.be/l-_MJ4frxsg


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## Mr Celine (8 Oct 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> I always remember when I was learning to drive and coming up to sitting my test, my instructor telling me that the examiner at the time was a keen cyclist and to make sure I gave any cyclists a wide berth.


Was that in Perth?


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## Mo1959 (9 Oct 2021)

Mr Celine said:


> Was that in Perth?


Yes. Think it was a name like Neil Sinclair if I’m remembering correctly?


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Oct 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> Yes. Think it was a name like Neil Sinclair if I’m remembering correctly?



Brother of Clive.


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## Mr Celine (9 Oct 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> Yes. Think it was a name like Neil Sinclair if I’m remembering correctly?


I learned to drive in Perth in 1980. I was also told by my instructor that one of the examiners was a cyclist and that if you got within 6 feet of a cyclist during your test you would fail. 
I had that examiner and passed first time, on a cold February day with no cyclists around.
I wasn't remotely interested in cycling at the time but the 6 ft rule did stick. 

ISTR that he had an adopted son who was one of Dennis Neilson's victims.


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## Mo1959 (9 Oct 2021)

Mr Celine said:


> I learned to drive in Perth in 1980. I was also told by my instructor that one of the examiners was a cyclist and that if you got within 6 feet of a cyclist during your test you would fail.
> I had that examiner and passed first time, on a cold February day with no cyclists around.
> I wasn't remotely interested in cycling at the time but the 6 ft rule did stick.
> 
> ISTR that he had an adopted son who was one of Dennis Neilson's victims.


Wasn’t Birrell’s School of Motoring you learned with? Nice instructors.


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## rogerzilla (9 Oct 2021)

Riding a bike a lot makes front wheel drive seem a bit odd, particularly its tendency to scrabble for grip coming out of gravelly T-junctions or dieselly petrol station forecourts.


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## Mr Celine (9 Oct 2021)

Mo1959 said:


> Wasn’t Birrell’s School of Motoring you learned with? Nice instructors.


No, it was 'Rightway School of Motoring'. I can't remember his name but he had a Vauxhall Viva. A bit sarcastic, 'I said park the car, not abandon it!'


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## oldwheels (10 Oct 2021)

Not sure that cycling changed my driving habits. Driving a lot on single track with passing places means I look further forward than most I think. I always scan as far ahead as I can see to anticipate oncoming traffic which can suddenly appear round a blind corner. At the same time I keep an eye on traffic from behind as anyone going faster than I am is allowed past at the first safe opportunity.
A lot of mainland drivers do not seem to look much further than the end of their bonnets.


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## Andy_R (29 Oct 2021)

I used to shout at cyclists who weren't in the gutter. Now I shout at them if they are.


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## sheddy (29 Nov 2021)

Driving Instructors: do we know how they teach overtaking ?


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## Drago (29 Nov 2021)

From what ive seen of them recently a lot of them aren't fit to teach the basics, like indicating _before _manoeuvring, applying a handbrake when stationary, etc, never mind advanced stuff like actually passing another road user. 

Remember, as drivers the typical ADI is no better or more qualified to drive than the average Joe. Not all, but thats true for the largest chunk of their numbers. Its in essence a teaching qualification, not a driving one.


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## grldtnr (29 Nov 2021)

Drago said:


> From what ive seen of them recently a lot of them aren't fit to teach the basics, like indicating _before _manoeuvring, applying a handbrake when stationary, etc, never mind advanced stuff like actually passing another road user.
> 
> Remember, as drivers the typical ADI is no better or more qualified to drive than the average Joe. Not all, but thats true for the largest chunk of their numbers. Its in essence a teaching qualification, not a driving one.


I have 2 basic rules , I am always learning to drive, and drive as if everyone else is going to do something absolutely stupid, never wrong on that one.
I have been a cyclist far longer than an a motorist, and more qualified as one, I took my ROSPA Proficiency for Cycling, and have only a standard driving licence.
Being an active cyclist , is by far the best teaching aid, than anything else, I have managed to live to 60by being a cyclist for 50 of those!


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## Smokin Joe (15 Dec 2021)

Drago said:


> Remember, as drivers the typical ADI is no better or more qualified to drive than the average Joe.



Wanna bet? Prospective ADIs have to take a 1. 1/2 hour driving teat set at a very high standard. Ok, not up to police Class 1 but considerably harder than the IAM or RoSPA advanced tests. 

And because a pupil isn't doing something correctly doesn't mean they haven't been repeatedly instructed to do it. Remember that fly on the wall driving school program twenty or so years back, and the infamous Maureen? Any full time Instructor will have at least four of those at any one time. It ain't an easy job.


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## grldtnr (15 Dec 2021)

One hopes that instructers are trained to a much higher standard, perhaps to Police standard, then that would filter through to pupils ,thence to driving public.
It's my opinion that it is a very low standard drivers are passing, it shows in the street ,with road rage, speeding, bad parking , running lights, I need not go on,.
The same can be said of bicycle users, but not Cyclist', I make the distinction, Cyclist will take a little more care,it's self preservation.
I will point out ,if there is any altercation, when I cycle, I can be pretty sure that I would not be the cause of the problem , apart from being on a bike in the first place, I have to balance, power , position and keep a good look out to make it safe to ride.
In a comfy tin box the driver only had to push pedals, pull levers, twiddle switches, some even park automatically!
It's no effort to drive, motorist should take head of that.


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## DaveReading (15 Dec 2021)

I would say that being a (former) motorcyclist informs my driving more than being a cyclist.


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## grldtnr (15 Dec 2021)

DaveReading said:


> I would say that being a (former) motorcyclist informs my driving more than being a cyclist.


Conversely, I am thinking of taking up motorcycling, never ever sat on one, I am now 60!
I have been watching CBT training vids, police training ones,, the over arching message is , don't skimp on observation, don't speed, road position is everything,if the slightest risk ,don't do it, that's overtake or manoeuvre.
I subconsciously drive as the advise.


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## Smokin Joe (15 Dec 2021)

grldtnr said:


> It's my opinion that it is a very low standard drivers are passing, it shows in the street ,with road rage, speeding, bad parking , running lights, I need not go on,.



A higher standard than it has ever been. Driver training and testing is only to show that a person is capable of driving in a safe manner, once the test has been passed character takes over and an A-Hole will always be an A-Hole no matter how well they have been trained.


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## slowmotion (15 Dec 2021)

Having driven vans without rear windows for a while, I have always looked in the door mirrors a lot. Being a cyclist has probably increased that because I know how easy it is to be missed if you ride up the inside.


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## oldandslow (29 Dec 2021)

I think as a cyclist I can let the bike roll to maintain momentum, where as a driver, with more momentum to think about, I ought to brake. I have to watch out for that. But generally I think it helps to have seen both views.

I learned to drive late, after some years of cycling, and before the days of ABS. When it came to the emergency stop, I asked my instructor whether, as a driver, you could do what I had learned to do as a cyclist, and "feel" for the point at which the wheels began to lock, pumping the brakes slightly as you found it. He said yes, but it took years of practice. When I did it first time out of sheer habit, he called me a show-off


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