# Are you going vegan?



## gavroche (2 Jan 2020)

Have you noticed how veganism is being pushed via media? On telly, it is mentioned very often. Is society trying to subtly brainwash us into going vegan? Wasting their time with me I must say, I do enjoy a nice steak or chicken and will continue to do so. All in moderation of course.


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## derrick (2 Jan 2020)

Give me a bit of meat with my vegan veg, i can live with that. But the wife has been vegetarian since the age of two, she has just gone vegan, A real pain in the arse when we go out for a meal. I might have to do a bit of dinning on my own.


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## welsh dragon (2 Jan 2020)

Heck no. No way am I going Vegan for anyone.


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## graham bowers (2 Jan 2020)

We eat a lot of veggie food and some vegan, however totally vegan is a step too far for me.


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## ianrauk (2 Jan 2020)

Nope. And really like the Greg's Vegan sausage rolls


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## Racing roadkill (2 Jan 2020)

In common with all of the rest of the Human race. I’m an omnivore. I don’t have any specific dietary requirements, so I’m off to a Vegan’s birthday party, where I shall eat a cow pie, and wash it down With a pint of pig’s blood.


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## roadrash (2 Jan 2020)

No...next question


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jan 2020)

Not quite, we’re going dry and meat-free.


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## Dayvo (2 Jan 2020)

At this stage in life (60 at the end of the month) I'm happy to be a vegetarian. Fish is on the menu for the time being, but depending on how more toxic the seas become, or the increase of parasites in farmed fish (trout and salmon) they me be the next item_ off_ the menu.

I absolutely love cheese and don't imagine I'd ever be able to permanently give it up voluntarily.


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## pawl (2 Jan 2020)

No No No A thousand times no.


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## Nick Saddlesore (2 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> dry and meat-free


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## roubaixtuesday (2 Jan 2020)

gavroche said:


> Is society trying to subtly brainwash us into going vegan?



Ermmm... I think that's a "no"


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## mickle (2 Jan 2020)

I'm almost vegan. Occasionally a croissant falls within reach.


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## slowmotion (2 Jan 2020)

I will if I'm allowed bacon.


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## roadrash (2 Jan 2020)

slowmotion said:


> I will if I'm allowed bacon.


but then you would have to restock,...…. think of the pichard wastage


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## AndyRM (2 Jan 2020)

I haven't got a vegan.


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## Slick (2 Jan 2020)

I can't see myself ever going totally meat free but after having watched the game changer on Netflix I've come to the conclusion that the days of eating meat are coming to an end for lots of different reasons. Not just my personal health but that of the planet.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jan 2020)

gavroche said:


> Have you noticed how veganism is being pushed via media? On telly, it is mentioned very often. Is society trying to subtly brainwash us into going vegan? Wasting their time with me I must say, I do enjoy a nice steak or chicken and will continue to do so. All in moderation of course.


Bingo!
What’s wrong with trying something different? What are you afraid of? You might learn something....
Annanotherthing. You watching the fires in Australia? The heatwave in the Outer Hebs, the record winter temp in Norway? The meat and livestock industry is a major contributor to climate change. Furthermore the meat industry is responsible for deforestation and excessive, pollution. Globally, too much land usage is used to grow crops to feed cattle for too few people to consume. Finally, as if that wasn’t enough, much of the poor health of the affluent west is due to excessive meat consumption.

But hey, it’s all a vegan conspiracy that’s trying to ruin your life;-)
In November, somebody might try to ruin your life by suggesting you might try stopping shaving for a month.


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## PK99 (2 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Bingo!
> What’s wrong with trying something different? What are you afraid of? You might learn something....
> Annanotherthing. You watching the fires in Australia? The heatwave in the Outer Hebs, the record winter temp in Norway? The meat and livestock industry is a major contributor to climate change. Furthermore the meat industry is responsible for deforestation and excessive, pollution. Globally, too much land usage is used to grow crops to feed cattle for too few people to consume. Finally, as if that wasn’t enough, much of the poor health of the affluent west is due to excessive meat consumption.
> 
> ...



Vegetarian seems to me a reasonable choice.

Vegan seems obsessive and cultish.


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## vickster (2 Jan 2020)

Nope. But I’ve not eaten meat for 5 months. Don’t miss it at all


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## roubaixtuesday (2 Jan 2020)

PK99 said:


> Vegetarian seems to me a reasonable choice.
> 
> Vegan seems obsessive and cultish.



Why?

Genuine question.


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## winjim (2 Jan 2020)

Pushed? Brainwashed? Or just discussed?


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## Salty seadog (2 Jan 2020)

It may surprise some but I've been vegetarian most of my adult life. I'm seriously considering pushing on to full on vegan.

This will naturally also have to be between meals.


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## mickle (2 Jan 2020)

PK99 said:


> Vegetarian seems to me a reasonable choice.
> 
> Vegan seems obsessive and cultish.


Vegetarian was seen as obsessive and cultish when I gave up meat C.1983. Now it's mainstream. Times change innit.


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## Rocky (2 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Not quite, we’re going dry and meat-free.


Does that include Basil? Cos I bet he’s not happy about that.


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## AndyRM (2 Jan 2020)

winjim said:


> Pushed? Brainwashed? Or just discussed?



Heaven forfend anything even vaguely alternative to the mainstream is discussed! 

Down with this sort of thing.


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## Rocky (2 Jan 2020)

@Fab Foodie can I have HW’s collection of Hebridean gins?


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## classic33 (2 Jan 2020)

roadrash said:


> but then you would have to restock,...…. think of the pichard wastage


He could go pescatarian.


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## albal (2 Jan 2020)

No but did drastically cut down meat from Jan 2019. The odd chicken. No red meat. My new favorite is garlic pasta. What a joy!


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## mudsticks (2 Jan 2020)

gavroche said:


> Have you noticed how veganism is being pushed via media? On telly, it is mentioned very often. Is society trying to subtly brainwash us into going vegan? Wasting their time with me I must say, I do enjoy a nice steak or chicken and will continue to do so. All in moderation of course.




If you don't fancy 'Veganuary. 

Try 'Regenuary'...

Try to source your meat, milk, cheese, and eggs from sources that farm sustainably, that regenerate earth fertility, and build soil for the future. 

Pasture fed meats for example. 

Cut out the factory farmed stuff.. Terrible for animals, and the environment with all that shipped soya, and slurry effluent. 

Well grazed, and cared for pasture, can actually sequester carbon by encouraging deeper rooted grasses. 

Natural grassland habitats are supposed to have large herbivores grazing.. That's a natural ecosystem situation. 

Eat less animal products, but pay a bit more, and source them well. 

Become a sustainable locavore. 
Eat what grows in your area. 

Eat seasonally, eat from your region.. 
Eat well. Eat deliciously. 

Hint _ that's not avocado's and almonds in the UK.


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## mudsticks (2 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> In November, somebody might try to ruin your life by suggesting you might try stopping shaving for a month.



Does that mean I have to _start _shaving in the meantime


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## PK99 (2 Jan 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Why?
> 
> Genuine question.



Indian Hindu friends are Vegetarian and no problem to cook for.

Vegans, on the otherhand:

https://www.veganlifemag.com/should-vegans-eat-figs/


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jan 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> Does that include Basil? Cos I bet he’s not happy about that.


We can't bring ourselves to eat Basil....


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jan 2020)

Brompton Bruce said:


> @Fab Foodie can I have HW’s collection of Hebridean gins?


Out of her cold dead hands....


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## Fab Foodie (2 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> I can't see myself ever going totally meat free but after having watched *the game changer on Netflix* I've come to the conclusion that the days of eating meat are coming to an end for lots of different reasons. Not just my personal health but that of the planet.


This is not a particular well balanced documentary, it's a bit evangelical, it's easy to pick holes in BUT, I absolutely agree it's worth watching, the info about the impact of meat-eating is particularly eye-opening for many. The fact is that there are few (if any) downsides to heading towards a low meat/no meat diet.


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## swee'pea99 (2 Jan 2020)

My vege friend says you used to be able to get a decent vege option most places, but now the one option for weirdos is vegan, which isn't half so tasty.


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## mudsticks (2 Jan 2020)

mudsticks said:


> If you don't fancy 'Veganuary.
> 
> Try 'Regenuary'...
> 
> ...


Sorry awfully forward, but it got back-ended on the last page. 

I'm repeating cos I think it's a viable option for those who truly care about food and it's impact. 

'Going vegan' to save the planet is a tad simplistic. 

Avocado's _do_ grow on trees, but not in this country, and not without a lot of inputs generally. 

As those of us in the Regen' Ag circles are often wont to say

*"It's the how, not the cow" *



swee'pea99 said:


> My vege friend says you used to be able to get a decent vege option most places, but now the one option for weirdos is vegan, which isn't half so tasty.



They could take their own, organic cheese to sprinkle on the top.. 

I was vegetarian for fifteen years or so.. 

Now I eat a bit of meat if it's from a good source.


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## fossyant (2 Jan 2020)

Not a chance. I do usually have far more veg on my plate, but beef and chicken is my favourite.

Recently went to Bem Brazil in Manchester. Had no carbs, but salad and non stop meat served from skewers. Stayed away from rice, potatoes and chips..


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## roubaixtuesday (3 Jan 2020)

PK99 said:


> Indian Hindu friends are Vegetarian and no problem to cook for.
> 
> Vegans, on the otherhand:
> 
> https://www.veganlifemag.com/should-vegans-eat-figs/



Cheers PK. 

I think you may have found quite an obscure issue there...


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## steveindenmark (3 Jan 2020)

Each to his own. 

I like chicken and fish. 🐔🐠😁


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## newfhouse (3 Jan 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> Each to his own.
> 
> I like chicken and fish. 🐔🐠😁


Not really each to his own, is it? Industrial fishing and meat production affects everybody negatively, not just the consumer. “Like” sounds a bit selfish as a justification.


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## mudsticks (3 Jan 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Not really each to his own, is it? Industrial fishing and meat production affects everybody negatively, not just the consumer. “Like” sounds a bit selfish as a justification.



The good news is that you can get sustainably sourced chicken and fish. 

You just have to pay more, in the case of chicken, or sometimes eat the odder sorts of fish. 

Industrial farming of animals is an abomination. 
Industrialised farming of any sort, is very bad for the environment.


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## EltonFrog (3 Jan 2020)

Not vegan and not vegetarian either.
For three reasons
1. Bacon.
2. Sausages.
3. Cheese.


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## MarkF (3 Jan 2020)

CarlP said:


> Not vegan and not vegetarian either.
> For three reasons
> 1. Bacon.
> 2. Sausages.
> 3. Cheese.



Number 2 is the sort of "food" that l would never contemplate putting in my body, l mean, you have no idea what you are consuming!

Went into an abbtoir via work as a young man, came out a veggie. MrsF moved to vegan from veggie a couple of years back on the behest of my radicalised vegan daughter. I've now gone vegan and it'll make FA all difference to my diet really.

My 2 sons are meat eaters & we are fine with that, just not the production of it. A future generation will look back in horror at these times and rightly so.


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## Edwardoka (3 Jan 2020)

Went vegetarian a few years back (I think I've previously mentioned my andouillette misadventure once or eighteen times), honestly don't miss it. Ignoring the ethics, the smell of meat is properly repugnant.

Gave up eggs a couple of years ago - the stuff that happens in hatcheries is too horrid to ignore.

Veganism is currently too far for me, because of dairy. That's a project for when I get my life back on track.


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## BoldonLad (3 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Not quite, we’re going* dry and meat-free*.



What! just for January?, in which case, it will soon be over. Chin up.


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## AndyRM (3 Jan 2020)

https://www.greggs.co.uk/vsb-locator?sf227337306=1


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## PK99 (3 Jan 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Cheers PK.
> 
> I think you may have found quite an obscure issue there...



That was just illustrative.
More generally:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/things-vegans-dont-eat

and:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/01/vegan-foods-vegans-dont-eat-11985353/

the most obvious exclusions are: Meat (beef, lamb, pork etc.) Poultry Fish and seafood Cheese Eggs Yoghurt Butter Cream Milk
However, being vegan can sometimes mean having to be extra cautious, as there are some less-obvious exclusions to the diet. These include: 

Some beer and wine – check to see if egg white, gelatin or casein has been used in the brewing process. 
Honey – this is a contentious one.
 Some vegans will eat honey, but others don’t because when humans give the bees a sugar substance to replace the honey taken, it lacks essential nutrients they need and can affect their lifespan.
 Sweets – non-vegan ingredients in sweets can include gelatin, shellac or a food dye called carmine which is made from cochineal insects. 
Chips – some are fried in animal fat. 
Pesto – many store-bought pestos contain Parmesan cheese.
 Roasted peanuts – can often include gelatin to help the spices stick together. 
Fresh pasta – often made with eggs.
 Natural flavourings – check the ingredients for additives such as E120, E322, E422, E471, E542, E631, E901 and E904 as these are animal-based. 
And if you see castoreum on an ingredients list, vegans will want to avoid it as that’s made from the secretions of a beavers anal scent gland. Yum.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/01/vegan-foods-vegans-dont-eat-11985353/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

When entertaining at home I have quite happily catered for:
Vegetarian - by choice and Hindu/Bramin
Halal
Diabetic
Gluten Free
Shell fish allergy

diets of my friends/guests or my kids friends.

Vegan - I'm sorry, but if you come, you will have to cope with the drinks I choose to provide and the Vegetarian option.


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## AndyRM (3 Jan 2020)

Cooking vegan really isn't as hard as those articles would have you believe.

Yes, some vegans go to wild extremes, but they are very much in a minority. It seems that most mainstream discussion of veganism ranges from "look at these weirdos" to "what do they eat?" via "why don't they shut up about it?"

It's pretty boring, really, and I'm not vegan.


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## MichaelW2 (3 Jan 2020)

I has a vegan sausage roll in Gregg s on Saturday. Does that count?

I can see in the next 20-30 years that mass production of meat scales right down and meat becomes a luxuy product. The 99% may have to make do with reconstituted jelly fish and petri dish protein for our fix.


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## mudsticks (3 Jan 2020)

AndyRM said:


> Cooking vegans really isn't as hard as those articles would have you believe.
> 
> Yes, some go to wild extremes, but they are very much in a minority. It seems that most mainstream discussion of veganism ranges from "look at these weirdos" to "what do they eat?" via "why don't they shut up about it?"
> 
> It's pretty boring, really, and I'm not vegan.









Hur de hur...


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jan 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> What! just for January?, in which case, it will soon be over. Chin up.


...we might extend into February....


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## mudsticks (3 Jan 2020)

AndyRM said:


> Cooking vegan really isn't as hard as those articles would have you believe.
> 
> Yes, some vegans go to wild extremes, but they are very much in a minority. It seems that most mainstream discussion of veganism ranges from "look at these weirdos" to "what do they eat?" via "why don't they shut up about it?"
> 
> It's pretty boring, really, and I'm not vegan.



There's usually at least one vegan residing, here at the farm, at any one time. 

We often take it in turns to cook communally, no one goes hungry ever. 

Having said that, there's many a "Ostensibly vegan, but actually eating these eggs, from these chickens" before too long. 

If you make a big ol fuss about stuff, then more fuss will generally ensue. 

But reasonably intelligent ppl can have reasoned conversations about these things, in the real world.. 

See previous posts (not the one with the bear )


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## flake99please (3 Jan 2020)

I doubt I would manage a day without any animal products, let alone a month through ‘Veganuary’.


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## roubaixtuesday (3 Jan 2020)

PK99 said:


> That was just illustrative.
> More generally:
> https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/things-vegans-dont-eat
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

As someone who is personally entirely omnivorous but has to routinely cater for a family which features vegans, gluten-free and some other food allergies too, the only thing which bugs me is people who not only have these issues but are fussy on top: "I don't like cashews!"; "yeuuch, that fish has eyes!" etc. That gets my goat. 

The vegan things which bug you haven't been any problem for me. 

Right, enough of this. I'm off to cook onion bhajis, saag massala and tarka dahl for tea. Might do some naans too. 

Dire, vegan food.


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## Slick (3 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> This is not a particular well balanced documentary, *it's a bit evangelical, it's easy to pick holes in* BUT, I absolutely agree it's worth watching, the info about the impact of meat-eating is particularly eye-opening for many. The fact is that there are few (if any) downsides to heading towards a low meat/no meat diet.



Yeah definitely, especially at the start, although it was eye opening to me. If half the claims were true I'd be willing to give it a try.


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## PK99 (3 Jan 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Right, enough of this. I'm off to cook onion bhajis, saag massala and tarka dahl for tea. Might do some naans too.
> 
> Dire, vegan food.



A typical evening meal in our omnivorous house too! I also do a mean Masala Dosa and Sambhar! Meera Sodha is my Guru. But I like my Dosa cooked in Ghee.

Now interestingly, the Ethical Vegan who has won the first part of his case, says that he chooses to walk rather that take the bus because the bus might kill insects is but one step from a Jain diet _The *Jain* cuisine is completely vegetarian and also excludes underground vegetables such as potato, garlic, onion etc, to prevent injuring small insects and microorganisms; and also to prevent the entire plant getting uprooted and killed (Wiki)_
Ie his ethical stance seems self inconsistent in comparison.


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jan 2020)

flake99please said:


> I doubt I would manage a day without any animal products, let alone a month through ‘Veganuary’.


But why not? Maybe just try a week without meat!


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## Fab Foodie (3 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Yeah definitely, especially at the start, although it was eye opening to me. If half the claims were true I'd be willing to give it a try.


Then do! That's our approach, it's an experiment, can we get used to eating differently, do we feel any benefits? I doubt we'll become veggies full time but will maybe just have better meat infrequently.


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## Slick (3 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> Then do! That's our approach, it's an experiment, can we get used to eating differently, do we feel any benefits? I doubt we'll become veggies full time but will maybe just have better meat infrequently.


Already am. 

Pretty much the same plan as you at the moment, but I've now had a number of vegan meals, which I enjoyed but Mrs Slick is not so keen and tends to either eat nothing when I'm enjoying this new diet or makes do with a sandwich. Mrs Slick really can't afford to miss too many more meals or she will be in danger of disappearing altogether.


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## flake99please (3 Jan 2020)

Fab Foodie said:


> But why not? Maybe just try a week without meat!



Meat free week is more than doable. Day free of dairy.... highly unlikely for myself


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## EltonFrog (3 Jan 2020)

Have a read of this if you’re think of going vegan.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folate-deficiency-anaemia/


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## Slick (3 Jan 2020)

Or this.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/


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## EltonFrog (3 Jan 2020)

Slick said:


> Or this.
> https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/


I was just about to post that.


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## roubaixtuesday (3 Jan 2020)

PK99 said:


> A typical evening meal in our omnivorous house too! I also do a mean Masala Dosa and Sambhar! Meera Sodha is my Guru. But I like my Dosa cooked in Ghee.
> 
> Now interestingly, the Ethical Vegan who has won the first part of his case, says that he chooses to walk rather that take the bus because the bus might kill insects is but one step from a Jain diet _The *Jain* cuisine is completely vegetarian and also excludes underground vegetables such as potato, garlic, onion etc, to prevent injuring small insects and microorganisms; and also to prevent the entire plant getting uprooted and killed (Wiki)_
> Ie his ethical stance seems self inconsistent in comparison.



Well, that was delicious, though I say so myself. 

Now I would post a picture of the feast, but as part of #nolongeratwatuary month, I've given up posting pictures of my meals on line.


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## Reynard (3 Jan 2020)

Am I going vegan? No.

Although I've had some absolutely stunning vegan food, but equally, I've had stuff where I'd much rather eat the wet cardboard it resembles. That, however, is true of all food - there's some great stuff out there, and there are some real clunkers.

I do eat a lot less meat than I used to - I would much rather have less of a better quality, higher welfare and far better tasting product, than a plate piled high with intensively-reared and often highly processed meat. And in cooking from scratch, I do tend to make the meat that I do have go further e.g. in enchiladas or pasta bakes or stretching out mince with lentils or mushrooms etc. I really do love vegetarian food though, and I may go several days without eating meat. And you just don't think about it.

IMHO it's all about having a good plate of food in front of you, regardless of whether it's veggie, vegan or otherwise. Good food is good food. If it tastes great, it goes in nicely. 

I don't think I could give meat up entirely though, likewise with eggs, dairy and fish. But when I compare the contents of my trolley to those of the other yellow sticker regulars, I have, by some considerable margin, far more fruit and veg than the others, and very little in the way of prepared / processed food.

Perhaps vegan is kinder for the planet, but tackling food waste is equally better for the environment.

I hate food waste - that's something that really gets my goat...


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## Milzy (3 Jan 2020)

Meat is murder. Morrisey will tell you.


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## pjd57 (19 Jan 2020)

Haven't ate meat in 38 years.
Decided to ditch eggs, dairy etc a year ago.
It's a bit more awkward than just stopping meat.
I won't claim to be " vegan" yet.
At home I am but eating out is still a problem at times.
Most places have veggie options but some are being a bit slow at moving on to vegan.
It's very noticeable that all the big players who make money from serving food are falling over themselves to grab the market.
The smaller places need to catch up quick.


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## Milzy (19 Jan 2020)

newfhouse said:


> Not really each to his own, is it? Industrial fishing and meat production affects everybody negatively, not just the consumer. “Like” sounds a bit selfish as a justification.


If a million people become vegan tomorrow, it wouldn't hardly effect the industrial farming of animals. You'd need super big numbers world wide which will never happen. If it did happen all those fields will become concrete jungles of housing anyway in time. If people can stop eating meat & dairy then maybe they can stop using fossil fuels too.


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## newfhouse (19 Jan 2020)

Milzy said:


> If a million people become vegan tomorrow, it wouldn't hardly effect the industrial farming of animals.


It would for two reasons. The first is that millions fewer animals would be processed through what are still inappropriately called ‘farms.’ That may be a drop in the ocean, but it still matters. The second is that old argument about normalising behaviours and attitudes. While Vegans are 1% they are cranks and oddballs. When they are 5% they are a business opportunity. Go beyond that and it is no longer a ‘lifestyle choice’ and becomes completely mundane.


Milzy said:


> If it did happen all those fields will become concrete jungles of housing anyway in time.


Industrial meat production doesn’t involve much in the way of fields unless you are going to include vast areas of bulldozed rainforest in the definition. I understand the argument that livestock farming doesn’t have to be environmentally damaging and cruel, but the fact is that as currently carried out, globally it mostly is.


Milzy said:


> If people can stop eating meat & dairy then maybe they can stop using fossil fuels too.


Yes, they can. Hard to cut it out completely but easy enough to choose to reduce, and becoming easier.


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## Notafettler (15 Feb 2020)

It wouldn't be on the top of the list of the things i didn't want to do. Death would be at least one place higher.


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## Notafettler (15 Feb 2020)

Some land is unsuitable for growing anything other than animals. What else can you grow on the moors? Or steep hillsides. And grass reduces soil erosion and possibly reverse it. 
How can anybody live without a BLT. Just had a SLT.


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## Edwardoka (15 Feb 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Some land is unsuitable for growing anything other than animals. *What else can you grow on the moors? Or steep hillsides. *And grass reduces soil erosion and possibly reverse it.


Trees. You know, like what historically grew on Britain's hillsides before we cut them all down, and which would return if we were to stop heather burns, sheep overgrazing and grouse shoots.

Grazed land is terrible for soil erosion and water retention.


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## Notafettler (15 Feb 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> Trees. You know, like what historically grew on Britain's hillsides before we cut them all down, and which would return if we were to stop heather burns, sheep overgrazing and grouse shoots.
> 
> Grazed land is terrible for soil erosion and water retention.


"Grazed land is terrible for soil erosion and water retention"? 
What bollocks. You are telling me that moorland doesn't hold water? 
Wheat is better at reducing soil erosion than grass? 
Are you smoking grass?
Most moorland for instance around Manchester has minimal heather and are definitely not over grazed by sheep. Nor is there much in the way of grouse shooting on the aforementioned. 
We are talking about food production you can't eat trees.


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## lazybloke (15 Feb 2020)

I did try a Greggs vegan sausage roll this week. Chatted to the server, who said many customers don't believe it's not meat.
Well I don't know what's wrong with their taste buds ; to me it had a disgusting aftertaste; not something I'll ever eat again.
And why would a committed vegan want to eat something that is mimicking the cooked flesh of a dead animal? I guess it's all a marketing ploy.

But then I've always enjoyed cooking meals from scratch, and enjoy a wide ranging diet including plenty of veggies from our allotments. Plenty of our meals are vegan & vegetarian, but we also enjoy fish & meat (but with an increasing eye on its provenance).

I'd happily see a ban of factory food, but I wonder what that would do to costs? Perhaps a tax on processed and "live" food in order to subside natural plant foods?


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## newfhouse (15 Feb 2020)

lazybloke said:


> Perhaps a tax on processed and "live" food in order to subside natural plant foods?


VAT adjustment would seem a reasonable way to do this.


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