# Jeremy Vine meets a gangster



## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

https://www.facebook.com/The-Jeremy-Vine-1691455784407633/

The Vinester rides wide, lady behind goes crazy bonkers.


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## Drago (30 Aug 2016)

Is the gangster ok?


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## jefmcg (30 Aug 2016)

Why Gangster? Because she is black?


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## Tim Hall (30 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Why Gangster? Because she is black?


I'm guessing because she made a gun with her fingers and "shot" him.

@glenn forger , entertaining as these threads are, do you spend your life trawling teh intarwebs for them, or just stumble across them?


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

The Vinester tweeted it this morning. The Standard are begging to use it so that lady may have an uncomfortable time.


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## DCLane (30 Aug 2016)

Untaxed car, verbal threats, aggressive driving. I think she's having a bad day - about to get worse ...


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## jefmcg (30 Aug 2016)

View: https://www.facebook.com/1691455784407633/videos/1841782049375005/


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## Pro Tour Punditry (30 Aug 2016)

He nearly died by means of the finger-popping-gun


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## potsy (30 Aug 2016)

Charming young 'lady'.


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

I thought untaxed didn't mean a great deal? There are massive loopholes, I thought.


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## Drago (30 Aug 2016)

I'd have thumped her, in immediate fear of being assaulted due to her behaviour and words, Officer.


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

Like that Nottingham hit-and-run I think there are ways round the system. No idea what they are but I expect that young lady knows a few.


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## G3CWI (30 Aug 2016)

Loved the comments from the ex-cycling instructor. Thank goodness he has retired.


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## Drago (30 Aug 2016)

The usual peckers are commenting on FB.


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## Gert Lush (30 Aug 2016)

Seems pretty typical of this sort of video. Not sure why he pulls alongside at the end, might as well stay back and let her drive off.


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

DCLane said:


> Untaxed car, verbal threats, aggressive driving. I think she's having a bad day - about to get worse ...


How do you know it's untaxed?

Sorry, this is the first time I've seen this.


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## midlife (30 Aug 2016)

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

Several .gov sites can give tax info.

Shaun

Edit to say I was beaten to it...


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## davefb (30 Aug 2016)

not seen this before.. erm wonder how long it'll stay up.

http://rate-driver.co.uk/MT56ECJ

and yeah, appears as untaxed. hmm but mot done on same day?


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

Oh, dear. She is in a little trouble, then... does not being taxed invalidate your insurance, too?


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## Gert Lush (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Oh, dear. She is in a little trouble, then... does not being taxed invalidate your insurance, too?



Yup

Edit: Apparently not, learn something new everyday.


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## slowmotion (30 Aug 2016)

Was that Ronnie Pickering in the passenger seat?


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

Gert Lush said:


> Yup



Umm, no it doesn't


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## huggy (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Oh, dear. She is in a little trouble, then... does not being taxed invalidate your insurance, too?


No it doesn't, if that was the case how would you take a car that has been SORN to an MOT which you need before you can buy the tax.


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Oh, dear. She is in a little trouble, then... does not being taxed invalidate your insurance, too?



No because you can't tax a car unless you're insured. So if your insurance is invalid because you're not taxed, you can't get tax, because your insurance would be invalid.


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

Now that I do know, you must have a pre-booked appointment.


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## steveindenmark (30 Aug 2016)

Having no road tax does not invalidate your insurance. But people who don't tax their cars often don't insure them either.

The disadvantage of having cameras all over your bike is that you cannot take your multi tool out of your pocket and stab people to death :O)

When she started with the horn. Just where did she expect him to go.


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## huggy (30 Aug 2016)

The Guardian are blurring the reg and person. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...osts-footage-alleged-road-rage-incident-cycle

I don't see why he didn't let the car past at the point he stopped.


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## Drago (30 Aug 2016)

To be fair, i'd be very angry too if life had dealt me such a bad hand I'd ended up driving a 1.2 Cora.


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

User said:


> You can insure an untaxed car (and in this circumstance I'm referring to a car that needs to be taxed). However, you will not be covered by your insurers for driving it on a public road unless, as @glenn forger says, you have a pre-booked appointment for an MOT which you require in order to tax it.



Why do you think that ? So if i neglect to tax my car my insurance suddenly becomes invalid - how so?


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## vickster (30 Aug 2016)

Who's Jeremy Vine?


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Why do you think that ? So if i neglect to tax my car my insurance suddenly becomes invalid - how so?


http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/legal-implications-avoiding-car-tax-insurance.html

Seemingly there's no straightforward "yes" or "no".

It depends on the T&C's of your policy.

I'd wager, though, that if you crashed an untaxed car, your insurers would try to wriggle out of paying up on the grounds that your vehicle was unroadworthy.


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## potsy (30 Aug 2016)

User said:


> you have a pre-booked appointment for an MOT which you require in order to tax it.


Maybe she had an appointment and was running late, then some bloody cyclist got in her way


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## Cycleops (30 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Why Gangster? Because she is black?



Are gangsters always black then?


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Aug 2016)

"You lot p*ss me off". 

What lot? 
Just imagine if Vine had uttered that line.


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> "You lot p*ss me off".
> 
> What lot?
> Just imagine if Vine had uttered that line.


I think she meant cyclists, not white men.


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Who's Jeremy Vine?


Tim Vine's skinnier and less good at stand up brother.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> I think she meant cyclists, not white men.



Sure. But imagine if he said it, meaning motorists.


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> Sure. But imagine if he said it, meaning motorists.


But why would he say it?


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> But why would he say it?



I don't know. Why did the driver say it?


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## Gert Lush (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Umm, no it doesn't



Okay, I was wrong. But is that in only the situation where you are going to your MOT appointment?

Edit. Just read the rest of the thread. No need to keep asking this question


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> I don't know. Why did the driver say it?


Because she was annoyed by a cyclist and has a beef against them, I'm guessing.

Maybe she actually hates white people and that's what she really meant, but I don't think that sort of presumptive speculation does anybody any favours, do you?


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

Gert Lush said:


> Okay, I was wrong. But is that in only the situation where you are going to your MOT appointment?



You are "allowed" to drive without an MOT or TAX to a PRE_BOOKED mot providing you have insurance. Assuming you pass, you may then tax the car. You are not allowed to tax the car without an MOT or insurance. This is the bit that I think people have got mixed up about

If the no tax = no insurance thing were true, you would get stuck in an endless loop which would be logically impossible to escape from


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## Gert Lush (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> You are not allowed to tax the car without an MOT or insurance. This is the bit that I think people have got mixed up about



That sounds more familiar to what I was thinking.


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## Melvil (30 Aug 2016)

I have only fairly recently started commuting again after snapping my leg like a twig some years ago and this just depresses me and also scares me quite a bit. All it takes is some knob who has had a bad day and...


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## Tin Pot (30 Aug 2016)

jefmcg said:


> View: https://www.facebook.com/1691455784407633/videos/1841782049375005/




They All Think Like This. All Of Them.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Because she was annoyed by a cyclist and has a beef against them, I'm guessing.
> 
> Maybe she actually hates white people and that's what she really meant, but I don't think that sort of presumptive speculation does anybody any favours, do you?



No, I'm not presuming, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. What I'm illustrating is how careless and downright stupid it is to utter the phrase "your lot", "your type" and similar in these situations. This lady gets away with this carelessness not least because she's been even more crass in other respects and it's actually been completely eclipsed. The question I'm asking is would Jeremy Vine have got away with uttering such a careless phrase in any circumstances, particularly in a confrontation with a black female car driver? I think not.


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

User said:


> It's one of the very few scenarios you're allowed to drive an untaxed car on the road (that needs to be taxed).



That bit's true as I understand it, but the insurance point is a different one. You are never allowed to drive an uninsured vehicle, and you won't become uninsured by dint of not paying your tax, nor your MOT expiring. 
Insurance companies have a great deal of difficulty wriggling out of their 3rd party liablities, which after all, is to cater for when you, the insured, is to blame in some way


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2016)

Has anybody counted how many cars were blocking up that road yet?


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## RoubaixCube (30 Aug 2016)

I wonder if she regrets her actions now since her face is all over social media & news related sites. Secondly I wonder how far the police will go with this as they dont seem to do much when its your regular joe cyclist reporting an incident. Jeremy Vine is famous to some degree. It could be a case of they bend over backwards trying to help and prosecute the driver because he works for the BBC and if he feels that his case hasnt been taken seriously and there is a lack of progress then he has a strong platform upon which he can voice his opinions.... Not just on social media but across the air waves as well as having an article pushed to the front page of the BBC website.

Whatever the outcome it will hopefully bring attention to the double standards that every day cyclists suffer when they've been involved in any incident involving a vehicle or just road rage in general.

Depending on its outcome maybe its worth reaching out to jeremy and point out these double standards -- but then again he's probably paid too much by the BBC to care about such trivial matters.


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## srw (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> That bit's true as I understand it, but the insurance point is a different one. You are never allowed to drive an uninsured vehicle, and you won't become uninsured by dint of not paying your tax, nor your MOT expiring.
> Insurance companies have a great deal of difficulty wriggling out of their 3rd party liablities, which after all, is to cater for when you, the insured, is to blame in some way


I am not a wordings or claims expert, but I rather doubt that your insurance company would pay out for anything other than mandatory 3rd-party liability if you were untaxed. As Reggie pointed out there are RTA liabilities which are unavoidable, so if you damage someone else or someone else's property you'll be covered. But if you damage your own car you're on your own.


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I am not a wordings or claims expert, but I rather doubt that your insurance company would pay out for anything other than mandatory 3rd-party liability if you were untaxed. As Reggie pointed out there are RTA liabilities which are unavoidable, so if you damage someone else or someone else's property you'll be covered. But if you damage your own car you're on your own.



But what possible basis would they have for weaseling out of it, other than merely being weasels of course?

I could understand if you'd modified the car, or had moved to a high risk town and were fibbing, but not taxed ?


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## Dec66 (30 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> No, I'm not presuming, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. What I'm illustrating is how careless and downright stupid it is to utter the phrase "your lot", "your type" and similar in these situations. This lady gets away with this carelessness not least because she's been even more crass in other respects and it's actually been completely eclipsed. The question I'm asking is would Jeremy Vine have got away with uttering such a careless phrase in any circumstances, particularly in a confrontation with a black female car driver? I think not.


I don't know if he would or he wouldn't. But he didn't. So why speculate on whether or not there'd be a backlash over something that didn't happen?


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## srw (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> But what possible basis would they have for weaseling out of it, other than merely being weasels of course?
> 
> I could understand if you'd modified the car, or had moved to a high risk town and were fibbing, but not taxed ?


To take a motor policy wording entirely* at random...



> General conditions applying to this policy
> [...]
> 18 Tax and registration Your car must be taxed where applicable and registered in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or Isle of Man


https://www.allianzebroker.co.uk/co...PER3137_12_Clear-Privat-Car-Policy-Jun-16.pdf

I believe the technical term is condition precedent to liability - something you as the policyholder have to do before the insurance company's liability to you kicks in. Hardly weaselling out of paying...


*The randomness might be from a sample of one.


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2016)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Has anybody counted how many cars were blocking up that road yet?


It's just occurred to me that some might think that my earlier post was suggesting that it was a bike holding the traffic up. In fact, the road is wide enough for 3 lanes of traffic. The aggression directed towards the cyclist is because of the scores of parked cars narrowing a road to a single track passageway with obstructed visibility. The bike is not holding up the driver, the parked cars on both sides are. Typically, it's the smallest moving vehicle that gets the blame for ''blocking'' the road. And, as ever, the frustration and aggression is directed at the cyclist. 

That said, she did almost punish one parked car for obstructing her cruise entitlement.


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## Profpointy (30 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> To take a motor policy wording entirely* at random...
> 
> 
> https://www.allianzebroker.co.uk/co...PER3137_12_Clear-Privat-Car-Policy-Jun-16.pdf
> ...



I have to stand corrected. Presumably "where applicable" would get you off on the driving to and from MOT before you can tax it at least. Bizarre though, but hey ho.


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## CanucksTraveller (30 Aug 2016)

@Dec66 
You never speculate? We all do it, it's evident on every thread on this very forum.

I speculated here because clearly a white male cyclist (rightly) can never, ever say "you lot" when addressing a female black motorist in a confrontation, but it seems a black female driver can get away with the same phrase on that white male cyclist with not even a mention, and indeed it ends up being very far from the worst bit of the confrontation. I thought that was an interesting juxtaposition. It's nothing against you, although you seem to be taking it personally so apologies if it offends.


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## deptfordmarmoset (30 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> @Dec66
> You never speculate? We all do it, it's evident on every thread on this very forum.
> 
> I speculated here because clearly a white male cyclist (rightly) can never, ever say "you lot" when addressing a female black motorist in a confrontation, but it seems a black female driver can get away with the same phrase on that white male cyclist with not even a mention, and indeed it ends up being very far from the worst bit of the confrontation. I thought that was an interesting juxtaposition. It's nothing against you, although you seem to be taking it personally so apologies if it offends.


She's a cyclicist!


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## swee'pea99 (30 Aug 2016)

Really, these people should all just be put in the blender...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-in-road-rage-row-while-cycling-a3332516.html


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## dan_bo (30 Aug 2016)

Yebbut Jeremy Vine's a daffodil.


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## bonsaibilly (30 Aug 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> I'm guessing because she made a gun with her fingers and "shot" him.
> 
> @glenn forger , entertaining as these threads are, do you spend your life trawling teh intarwebs for them, or just stumble across them?


Is that relevant?


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## bonsaibilly (30 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Not really. Untaxed vehicles can be seized and crushed.



Does it take place much?


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## bonsaibilly (30 Aug 2016)

potsy said:


> Maybe she had an appointment and was running late, then some bloody cyclist got in her way


 It was you, wasn't it, lolz.


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## bonsaibilly (30 Aug 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Because she was annoyed by a cyclist and has a beef against them, I'm guessing.
> 
> Maybe she actually hates white people and that's what she really meant, but I don't think that sort of presumptive speculation does anybody any favours, do you?



Possibly not, far better to make your own assumptive speculation


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## Tim Hall (30 Aug 2016)

bonsaibilly said:


> Is that relevant?


Is what relevant? My post had two points in it, but it isn't clear which you're questioning the relevance of.


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

She's a good girl. Her mum is mortified. She's a product of conditioning, it's not completely her fault, hatred of cyclists has been drummed into her. Now she's in hiding. This is the worst thing that's happened to her. She is dying of shame. Maybe.


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## slowmotion (30 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> But what possible basis would they have for weaseling out of it, other than merely being weasels of course?



Force of habit.


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## glenn forger (30 Aug 2016)

The Sun have basically put a bounty on her head so the clip will get played a fair bit more on the news.


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## YahudaMoon (31 Aug 2016)

I think the lady? words of "you lot" more than likely refers to..

Jeremy had no helmet

She hates Brompton riders

Jeremy had a £7000 aero bike whilst wearing a suit with pant clips

She hates Jeremy and the Beeb


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## Dec66 (31 Aug 2016)

bonsaibilly said:


> Possibly not, far better to make your own assumptive speculation



A "presumptive speculation" made to highlight the folly of the original presumptive speculation.

But, of course, you already knew that.

Was it a good evening?


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## slowmotion (31 Aug 2016)

[QUOTE 4443101, member: 259"]It's on Facebook so I can't see it
Is it worth joining up for?[/QUOTE]
It's on YouTube. Just type Jeremy Vine Road Rage. The comments are worth a miss.


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## Milkfloat (31 Aug 2016)

If the police do ever catch up with her, I would prefer her punishment to be being forced to go on Vine's radio show to discuss it.


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## jefmcg (31 Aug 2016)

[QUOTE 4443074, member: 259"]I'm sure it's fantastic but it's on Facebook so I can't see it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE 4443101, member: 259"]It's on Facebook so I can't see it
Is it worth joining up for?[/QUOTE]
You don't need to join



jefmcg said:


> View: https://www.facebook.com/1691455784407633/videos/1841782049375005/


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

I'm going to go against the grain here. Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars. He didn't because he wanted to make a point, and, whatever the merits of the point he wanted to make, it makes him look a monkey. A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day. If he was really out to improve the world he could have caught her at the junction, smiled sweetly and given her a little wave.

I'm bound to say that I think he was looking for a youtube clip. He succeeded, but, in succeeding he's just added to the general fund of ill-feeling.


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## coffeejo (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm going to go against the grain here. Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars. He didn't because he wanted to make a point, and, whatever the merits of the point he wanted to make, it makes him look a monkey. A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day. If he was really out to improve the world he could have caught her at the junction, smiled sweetly and given her a little wave.
> 
> I'm bound to say that I think he was looking for a youtube clip. He succeeded, but, in succeeding he's just added to the general fund of ill-feeling.


Having watched it again, I'm reminded of the majority of clips I've seen. Driver shouldn't have done x, y *and* z but the youtuber doesn't help his/herself.


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## Milkfloat (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm going to go against the grain here. Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars. He didn't because he wanted to make a point, and, whatever the merits of the point he wanted to make, it makes him look a monkey. A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day. If he was really out to improve the world he could have caught her at the junction, smiled sweetly and given her a little wave.
> 
> I'm bound to say that I think he was looking for a youtube clip. He succeeded, but, in succeeding he's just added to the general fund of ill-feeling.



We disagree here - why should he be bullied off a road he is entirely entitled to be on? If he could have pulled in without stopping to let her past then fine, but he would have had to come to a stop to let her pass, she would have been able to pass at the end of the road, so the inconvenience to her would have minimal.

This ignores the use of the horn and dangerous driving before he stopped. I think he was quite justified in doing what he did, I see no reasonable defence for her at all.


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## jefmcg (31 Aug 2016)

[QUOTE 4443305, member: 259"]No, Facebook is getting fussy nowadays, and I can't view any of its content unless I create a Facebook account.
View attachment 141979
[/QUOTE]
How strange. I'm not logged in to fb, and I can see it.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> We disagree here - why should he be bullied off a road he is entirely entitled to be on? If he could have pulled in without stopping to let her past then fine, but he would have had to come to a stop to let her pass, she would have been able to pass at the end of the road, so the inconvenience to her would have minimal.
> 
> This ignores the use of the horn and dangerous driving before he stopped. I think he was quite justified in doing what he did, I see no reasonable defence for her at all.


we can disagree by all means, but I'd rather you disagreed with what I wrote than with what I didn't write


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## Dogtrousers (31 Aug 2016)

vickster said:


> Who's Jeremy Vine?


I've just looked him up. He's on radio 2. So probably a bit like Jimmy Young. He is also on telly but I don't know which one he is.


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## tallliman (31 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've just looked him up. He's on radio 2. So probably a bit like Jimmy Young. He is also on telly but I don't know which one he is.



He presents Eggheads amongst other things


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## TheJDog (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day.



Did we give in to Hitler when he was bullying his way across Europe?


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## Dogtrousers (31 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I call Godwin!


Tommy?


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## Tin Pot (31 Aug 2016)

i hope the police investigate and nothing happens, just like it does for the rest of the population.

Perhaps it'll shed light on the lawless streets.


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## winjim (31 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I've just looked him up. He's on radio 2. So probably a bit like Jimmy Young. He is also on telly but I don't know which one he is.


On the spectrum of Jeremies he looks up to Paxman, down on Kyle and across from a distance at Clarkson.


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## Bollo (31 Aug 2016)

My frustration with this (and to a certain extent the recent Branson near-death story) is that this only becomes news when it happens to some schleb.


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## User6179 (31 Aug 2016)

Bollo said:


> My frustration with this (and to a certain extent the recent Branson near-death story) is that this only becomes news when it happens to some schleb.



Big Bad Ronnie Pickering and Twat Fall Peugeot guy was allover the MSM .


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## jarlrmai (31 Aug 2016)

He also could have avoided this whole incident by locking himself in his house and never leaving ever and getting the pizza delivery people to post 10" ham and pineapple's through his letter box once a day.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

winjim said:


> On the spectrum of Jeremies he looks up to Paxman, down on Kyle and across from a distance at Clarkson.


but not fit to lick Corbyn's boots!


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## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> we can disagree by all means, but I'd rather you disagreed with what I wrote than with what I didn't write



Ok, well let's take a look at what you wrote. You wrote this:



dellzeqq said:


> Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars. He didn't because he wanted to make a point, and, whatever the merits of the point he wanted to make, it makes him look a monkey. A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day. If he was really out to improve the world he could have caught her at the junction, smiled sweetly and given her a little wave.
> 
> I'm bound to say that I think he was looking for a youtube clip. He succeeded, but, in succeeding he's just added to the general fund of ill-feeling.



"Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars."

To which Milkfloat responded:



Milkfloat said:


> why should he be bullied off a road he is entirely entitled to be on?



Looks like a response to 'what you wrote' to me.

The rest of your post looks to me like a set of your assumptions. That 'he wanted to make a point'. That he 'was looking for a youtube clip'. Maybe he was, and maybe he wasn't - you don't know, any more than we do. Milkfloat didn't respond to them. But insofar as he continued:



Milkfloat said:


> This ignores the use of the horn and dangerous driving before he stopped. I think he was quite justified in doing what he did, I see no reasonable defence for her at all.



...I for one have no problem with it. 

I cannot see any grounds whatsoever for 'going against the grain' here. This was exactly what it looked like: a vicious and unwarranted bit of aggressive and dangerous bullying, accompanied by verbal abuse and a physical assault, by someone in control of a ton and a half of metal. I, like you, would probably have pulled over, rolled my eyes, and got on with my day. But not everyone on two wheels is as confident as you and me. People like that could do that to one of my daughters, and at best it would scare the shoot out of them. 

There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. None. Anyone who drives like that - anyone who behaves like that - has no place behind the wheel of a car. If I had my druthers, she'd have a 12 month ban, a six month suspended sentence, and her car crushed in front of her eyes.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

because, dear Swee'pea99, doing what you are entitled to do and doing that which is sensible are two different things. I accept that Mr. Vine was fully entitled to stay in the road - I just don't think that doing so was particularly grown-up.

And, forgive me, but I didn't assume Mr. Vine wanted to make a point - I said that I thought that he did. There's a difference.

I make no excuses for the driver. She's an idiot. But, unlike Mr. Vine I don't let idiots ruin my day.

My guess is she'll get a small fine.


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## jefmcg (31 Aug 2016)

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to go to the kerb and shrug their shoulders" .


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## Tin Pot (31 Aug 2016)

winjim said:


> On the spectrum of Jeremies he looks up to Paxman, down on Kyle and across from a distance at Clarkson.



And Beadle..?


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## Dogtrousers (31 Aug 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> And Beadle..?


Fisher?


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## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> because, dear Swee'pea99, doing what you are entitled to do and doing that which is sensible are two different things. I accept that Mr. Vine was fully entitled to stay in the road - I just don't think that doing so was particularly grown-up.
> 
> And, forgive me, but I didn't assume Mr. Vine wanted to make a point - I said that I thought that he did. There's a difference.
> 
> ...


If she was just an idiot, I'd have no problem with her. But she's not. She's a violent, dangerous bully, on the public highway, in control of a ton and a half of metal. That's my problem. You're probably right that she'll just get a small fine. And so long as people can behave that way and get small fines, they'll continue behaving that way. And the victims of their 'idiocy' will continue to go to hospital - or the graveyard. Not that I expect that to ruin your day.


----------



## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

swee'pea99 said:


> If she was just an idiot, I'd have no problem with her. But she's not. She's a violent, dangerous bully, on the public highway, in control of a ton and a half of metal. That's my problem. You're probably right that she'll just get a small fine. And so long as people can behave that way and get small fines, they'll continue behaving that way. And the victims of their 'idiocy' will continue to go to hospital - or the graveyard. Not that I expect that to ruin your day.


it's very easy to conflate a bit of hooting and shouting with causing injury, but I think that some perspective might come in handy. I'm probably one of the few people here who have been hit from behind by a car doing 55 mph, catapulted 30 yards down the road and left for dead in the dark. I can tell you, with some authority, that there is a qualitative difference between this and having somebody blowing a horn at you. 29 years on I still feel the result. I doubt that Mr. Vine will have the same problem.


----------



## TheJDog (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> it's very easy to conflate a bit of hooting and shouting with causing injury, but I think that some perspective might come in handy. I'm probably one of the few people here who have been hit from behind by a car doing 55 mph, catapulted 30 yards down the road and left for dead in the dark. I can tell you, with some authority, that there is a qualitative difference between this and having somebody blowing a horn at you. 29 years on I still feel the result. I doubt that Mr. Vine will have the same problem.



I doubt that Mr Vine will have the same problem, because cycling is inherently pretty safe. But I think it would be far safer if she wasn't on the roads.


----------



## hondated (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I'm going to go against the grain here. Jeremy Vine is a pompous geranium and he could have done the simple thing and pull over in to the gap between the two cars. He didn't because he wanted to make a point, and, whatever the merits of the point he wanted to make, it makes him look a monkey. A grown up would have gone to the kerb, shrugged his shoulders and got on with his day. If he was really out to improve the world he could have caught her at the junction, smiled sweetly and given her a little wave.
> 
> I'm bound to say that I think he was looking for a youtube clip. He succeeded, but, in succeeding he's just added to the general fund of ill-feeling.


Don't know about your opinion of JV but your right a grown up would of pulled over etc etc. But that proves I have yet to grow up as I had some idiot tooting me in a narrow strip of road and my reaction was to brake even harder and to stop in the middle of the road. Yes I was ready to confront this young idiot but probably fortunate for me he chose to swerve around me and my bike and told me what he thought I was as he sped away.
I probably do need to grow up because the wife often passes that comment as I set off out on my bicycle or motorbike but not just yet a !


----------



## swee'pea99 (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> it's very easy to conflate a bit of hooting and shouting with causing injury, but I think that some perspective might come in handy. I'm probably one of the few people here who have been hit from behind by a car doing 55 mph, catapulted 30 yards down the road and left for dead in the dark. I can tell you, with some authority, that there is a qualitative difference between this and having somebody blowing a horn at you. 29 years on I still feel the result. I doubt that Mr. Vine will have the same problem.


No-one's conflating anything, as far as I'm aware. And yes, I'm sure Mr Vine will be fine - shaken, even stirred, but basically ok. 

That doesn't change the fact that the behaviour he encountered is precisely the kind that causes death and serious injury. Behaviour that stems from a flat rejection of the implicit contract attached to being granted the right to control a potentially lethal machine in public: If you want to drive, you need to accept that the world doesn't revolve around you; that you are potentially a danger to many other people; and that in order to minimise that danger, there will be times you need to compromise your desire to go where you want, when you want, at any speed you want. You have, on occasion, to be prepared to slow down, and accept a degree of inconvenience to ensure the safety of other people.. 

Anyone who says, in effect, 'bugger that - you're in my way, so I'm going to put you at risk for my convenience' forfeits that right, and should be taken off the road.


----------



## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

swee'pea99 said:


> *No-one's conflating anything*, as far as I'm aware. And yes, I'm sure Mr Vine will be fine - shaken, even stirred, but basically ok.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that the behaviour he encountered is *precisely the kind* that causes death and serious injury.


quite....


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

The arbiter for safe driving isn't that they never hit you from behind at 55.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> The arbiter for safe driving isn't that they never hit you from behind at 55.


nobody's saying it is. I simply think that a bit of perspective and a sense of proportion might be in order, and that Mr. Vine might have saved himself the fuss and bother had he done the grown-up thing.

As it is you've got Peter Walker and the usual suspects over on the Graun telling us that cyclists face death at the hands of psychopathic drivers every day. Now, I don't know about you, but I cycled in to the centre of London this morning and then amused myself by taking the tourist route back home again, and did not feel the slightest presentiment of death or anything close. The sun shone, the birds tweeted, the Santander bikes wobbled this way and that, cheery scaffolders swung from poles and police officers saluted old ladies (I might have made that last one up).


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

Walker's inviting submissions, he's correct when he says behaviour like this is common, I went to the old bill to report similar last week, first time in fifteen years.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> Walker's inviting submissions, he's correct when he says behaviour like this is common, I went to the old bill to report similar last week, *first time in fifteen years*.


indeed. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to ride down to Balham. If tooted I will respond with a smile.


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

I've let a lot of stuff go cos I rise above it. My commute was East London for 8 years remember, I'm used to whackjob looney tune drivers.


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> nobody's saying it is. I simply think that a bit of perspective and a sense of proportion might be in order, and that Mr. Vine might have saved himself the fuss and bother had he done the grown-up thing.
> 
> As it is you've got Peter Walker and the usual suspects over on the Graun telling us that cyclists face death at the hands of psychopathic drivers every day. Now, I don't know about you, but I cycled in to the centre of London this morning and then amused myself by taking the tourist route back home again, and did not feel the slightest presentiment of death or anything close. The sun shone, the birds tweeted, the Santander bikes wobbled this way and that, cheery scaffolders swung from poles and police officers saluted old ladies (I might have made that last one up).


I say - not everyone is backing up Walker (I sometimes wonder why he doesn't more often, but that's another question). At least one person has called him out on his scaremongering.

There's a rather amusing questionnaire: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...-experienced-an-altercation-like-jeremy-vines

It would be absolutely delightful if more than one person filled it in telling Peter Walker that he's a bit of a scaremongering numpty, perhaps pointed to the best article on the subject? http://www.gicentre.net/blog/2013/11/24/risk-cycling-and-denominator-neglect


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

That article is about injuries and death, not altercations.


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> That article is about injuries and death, not altercations.


People are concerned about altercations because they believe they lead to injuries and death.


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

That link doesn't have anything to do with Walker's piece. You said the article shows Walker's scare-mongering. The article has nothing to do with road rage. The article is about casualties. You're confused.


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> That link doesn't have anything to do with Walker's piece. You said the article shows Walker's scare-mongering. The article has nothing to do with road rage. The article is about casualties. You're confused.



*puts on patient face*

I'm not confused. Peter Walker is scare-mongering because he doesn't understand the fear reaction. It's not a rational reaction but an irrational, primeval reaction to perceived challenge and is based on the flight-fight mechanism. The way to conquer it is to understand the risk (which is why the Wood article is relevant) and gently encourage the irrational mind to overcome and calm down the irrational mind.

It's the basic technique underlying a lot of psychological therapies - and it works.


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## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

You're still confused. Altercations are not the same as injuries and deaths. They're two different things, so the existence of one doesn't disprove the other. If someone is threatening you the situation isn't defused by remembering not many cyclists get hurt.


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> You're still confused. Altercations are not the same as injuries and deaths. They're two different things, so the existence of one doesn't disprove the other. If someone is threatening you the situation isn't defused by remembering not many cyclists get hurt.


Oh how sweet. My very own stalker.

You're missing a key point. In the vast majority of the circumstances Walker is on about - including, from the transcripts I've read, the Vine incident - _no-one is threatening anyone_. Yes, there's the perception of threat, but it's only a perception, not a reality. Which is why @dellzeqq is (as he so often is) absolutely right. The best response to a perception of threat is to chill, and let the other bugger suffer.


----------



## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

Saying 

"Get the fxxx out of the road, I will knock you out!" 

isn't a threat, you reckon?


----------



## srw (31 Aug 2016)

glenn forger said:


> Saying
> 
> "Get the fxxx out of the road, I will knock you out!"
> 
> isn't a threat, you reckon?


No, I don't. 

The number of people who would actually follow through on that suggestion is miniscule. To be a real threat, the person delivering it would need to be willing to follow through on it.


----------



## doog (31 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> No, I don't.
> 
> The number of people who would actually follow through on that suggestion is miniscule. To be a real threat, the person delivering it would need to be willing to follow through on it.



By law the willingness to follow through is immaterial ..its the threat that counts. How can you prove a willingness to follow through ..unless they do ?


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

doog said:


> By law the willingness to follow through is immaterial ..its the threat that counts. How can you prove a willingness to follow through ..unless they do ?


I don't actually give a toss about what the law says in this situation. I'm more concerned with my own psychological health. And I can tell you that when I learned to chill out when I'm cycling two things happened. First, I started enjoying riding a lot more. And second I stopped seeing a threat around every corner. I realised that most people _aren't _out to get me. Which is also good because, on the extremely rare occasions when someone really _is_ out to get me (it happens maybe a couple of times a year) it means that I can respond appropriately.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> Oh how sweet. My very own stalker.
> 
> You're missing a key point. In the vast majority of the circumstances Walker is on about - including, from the transcripts I've read, the Vine incident - _no-one is threatening anyone_. Yes, there's the perception of threat, but it's only a perception, not a reality. *Which is why @dellzeqq is (as he so often is) absolutely right.* The best response to a perception of threat is to chill, and let the other bugger suffer.


sighs deeply.


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## srw (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> sighs deeply.


You're lucky I didn't pick you up on Corbyn's boots....


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## doog (31 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> I don't actually give a toss about what the law says in this situation. .



You should do. If you're happy to be threatened and just brush it off on the off chance someone wont follow throw you sound like the next victim.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

srw said:


> You're lucky I didn't pick you up on Corbyn's boots....


it was a riff, man. Chillax!


----------



## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

[QUOTE 4444162, member: 45"]That reminds me, what's your horse-beating, dodgy-bus-driving, cyclist-hating tour guide up to these days?[/QUOTE]

Still trundling around Norwich. see him now and again. He deleted his Tripadviser entry.


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## dellzeqq (31 Aug 2016)

doog said:


> You should do. If you're happy to be threatened and just brush it off on the off chance someone wont follow throw you sound like the next victim.


I'll give you a piece of advice. If, through lack of foresight, lack of attention or plain lack of intelligence you find yourself in a confrontation that you have not designedly brought about, the thing to do is to win. Vine lost.


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## RoubaixCube (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I'll give you a piece of advice. If, through lack of foresight, lack of attention or plain lack of intelligence you find yourself in a confrontation that you have not designedly brought about, the thing to do is to win. Vine lost.



Vine had the last laugh.... He caught it all on camera -- Depending if the police are as incompetent as they sound, he can still win unless he choose not to pursue her and press charges.


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## doog (31 Aug 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> *I'll give you a piece of advice.* If, through lack of foresight, lack of attention or plain lack of intelligence you find yourself in a confrontation that you have not designedly brought about, the thing to do is to win. Vine lost.



Thanks..my egg sucking isn't going that well .


----------



## glenn forger (31 Aug 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Vine had the last laugh.... He caught it all on camera -- Depending if the police are as incompetent as they sound, he can still win unless he choose not to pursue her and press charges.



Exactly. So entitled was this driver that she continued with threats after she noticed the camera. It's quite delicious schadenfreude.


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## Hitchington (1 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Vine had the last laugh.....


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## Dogtrousers (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> indeed. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to ride down to Balham. If tooted I will respond with a smile.


You could go via Tooting.


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## Blue Hills (1 Sep 2016)

Gert Lush said:


> Seems pretty typical of this sort of video. Not sure why he pulls alongside at the end, might as well stay back and let her drive off.


I thought he showed quite remarkable self control. I'm not recommending it (in fact I know it can escalate things quite dramatically and you risk losing the moral high ground) but i would have almost certainly fired a few choice words back at her.


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Vine had the last laugh.... He caught it all on camera -- Depending if the police are as incompetent as they sound, he can still win unless he choose not to pursue her and press charges.


If the police pursue it she'll get a small fine. He, on the other hand, stood there stammering and got himself pushed around by somebody a foot shorter than him. I'd have thought his friends and family are looking at their toes in embarrassment.

And the reason is....he had no plan. No thought about how he was going to play it. He stood his ground, but had no clue what to do when the young woman took him to task. That's marginally more pathetic than his showing on Strictly.

The really sad thing about this is it plays to the audience within cycling that sees itself as the victim. Cyclists aren't victims. They're the new nobility of the streets. They swan around, heedless of jams, taking in the scenery, getting to their destinations more quickly than anybody else, revelling in their own fitness, living longer, healthier lives than the car-bound masses around them. Cyclists have become the chosen, the keepers of virtue, the flaneurs of the modern age. Were Baudelaire alive today he'd be awestruck by the ease with which our tyres, wheels, frames and saddles carry us vast distances without apparent effort. We're the Tops, the Colosseum and the Wax Museum of town and country.

Lets have that as our chosen narrative, not this bleating about people passing too close, or parping their horns. If Mr. Vine is so convinced that cycling is dangerous, why does he continue?


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## srw (1 Sep 2016)

glenn forger said:


> Exactly. So entitled was this driver that she continued with threats after she noticed the camera. It's quite delicious schadenfreude.


Rather proves it wasn't a real threat, doesn't it? If it was real she wouldn't have bothered carrying on, she'd have destroyed the evidence PDQ.


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## outlash (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> The really sad thing about this is it plays to the audience within cycling that sees itself as the victim. Cyclists aren't victims.



This. But it won't stop the OP carrying on with their 'crusade'.


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## Blue Hills (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> If the police pursue it she'll get a small fine. He, on the other hand, stood there stammering and got himself pushed around by somebody a foot shorter than him. I'd have thought his friends and family are looking at their toes in embarrassment.
> 
> And the reason is....he had no plan. No thought about how he was going to play it. He stood his ground, but had no clue what to do when the young woman took him to task. That's marginally more pathetic than his showing on Strictly.
> 
> ...


Got to disagree. I thought he played it well.
admirably so.
What do you think he should have done?


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Got to disagree. I thought he played it well.
> admirably so.
> What do you think he should have done?


a) not get in to the row in the first place - shrugged his shoulders, moved aside, caught her up at the junction and given her a cheery wave. 
b) failing that (and it is a failure), got on the bike immediately she got out of the car and pedal off saying......... (well, I can't actually write what I would have said, because it's very, very rude - but it works).


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## Tin Pot (1 Sep 2016)

The problem is bullies like this driver.
Bullying isn't resolved by condoning bullying.
Bullying isn't resolved by giving in to bullies.

People who drive around angry and self righteous must be stopped before they hurt someone. They must be made aware of the law. And when they break the law, they must face justice.

If anyone here can't understand this *very simple* reality, they are part of the problem.


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## glenn forger (1 Sep 2016)

"Hey, *cyclists*, you should obey all road laws"

"Yep, okay. I'll take the lane here as it's a bit narro..."

"NOT THAT ONE"


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## Blue Hills (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> , got on the bike immediately she got out of the car and pedal off saying.. (well, I can't actually write what I would have said, because it's very, very rude - but it works).


Well being in the public eye, and with possible witnesses, jeremy is possibly rather limited in this area.
But, being myself usually less controlled then jeremy, and not being in the public eye, I'm genuinely interested in this.
Please tell -we are all adults and the mods will maybe allow. You can always insert starred euphemisms/definitions at key points if needed.


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

Blue Hills said:


> Well being in the public eye, and with possible witnesses, jeremy is possibly rather limited in this area.
> But, being myself usually less controlled then jeremy, and not being in the public eye, I'm genuinely interested in this.
> Please tell -we are all adults and the mods will maybe allow. You can always insert starred euphemisms/definitions at key points if needed.


it would be a string of asterisks, and not very nice ones at that. If I see you around (on the Old Crocks Ride) then I'll let you know, but I don't fancy having one of my great failings (bad language) aired in quotes on CC


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## jefmcg (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> (well, I can't actually write what I would have said, because it's very, very rude - *but it works*).


in what way does it work. I've noticed that if you shout obscenities at road rager, they tend to get more angry. Do you have a phrase so obscene, it calms them down? Like Red Adair using explosives to put a an oil rig fire?


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## srw (1 Sep 2016)

jefmcg said:


> in what way does it work. I've noticed that if you shout obscenities at road rager, they tend to get more angry. Do you have a phrase so obscene, it calms them down? Like Red Adair using explosives to put a an oil rig fire?


It's not the words, it's the extremely angry and abrupt tone in which he says them, including the very sudden, and very special, snarl. 

Imagine the hate of Donald Trump crossed with the rage of Basil Fawlty, but without the inherent charm of either - and you're beginning to get there.


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

srw said:


> It's not the words, it's the extremely angry and abrupt tone in which he says them, including the very sudden, and very special, snarl.
> 
> Imagine the hate of Donald Trump crossed with the rage of Basil Fawlty, but without the inherent charm of either - and you're beginning to get there.


those are the one you see. That's my public persona.


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## srw (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> those are the one you see. That's my public persona.


I should acknowledge that this is a side of Mr Zeqq that you very rarely see if you're on a bike or in a pub with him.


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## Blue Hills (1 Sep 2016)

More and more interested/intrigued.

How's about PMing me this verbal vitriol?

Won't repost, honest.


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## winjim (1 Sep 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Like Red Adair using explosives to put a an oil rig fire?


He put out fires as well? What a talented bloke, I loved him in those tap dancing movies.


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## goody (2 Sep 2016)

He wasn't tap dancing he was having flashbacks from when the explosives didn't quite work.


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## glenn forger (4 Sep 2016)

The Sun have found the driver:



> “He made me look impatient but he was riding on the pavement and came out on to the road in front of me, with no hand signals.
> 
> 
> 
> “The road had parking on either side. He was dangerous. He pulled out in front of me, making me have to make an emergency stop.


----------



## Glow worm (4 Sep 2016)

glenn forger said:


> The Sun have found the driver:



Ah, so that's ok then 
So there you have it, inconvenience a motorist in Britain, even by the tiniest amount, and you deserve everything you get. Shameful really.


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## srw (4 Sep 2016)

Glow worm said:


> Ah, so that's ok then
> So there you have it, inconvenience a motorist in Britain, even by the tiniest amount, and you deserve everything you get. Shameful really.


If her description of the event is accurate (and I make no judgement on that) then he's been a complete nobber and needs a course in basic roadcraft.


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## Buddfox (4 Sep 2016)

Presuming that Jeremy Vine has the video of his entire journey it shouldn't take him long to clear this up


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## glenn forger (4 Sep 2016)

So so far the cops have done nothing and the driver has been persuaded to speak to The Sun. It is possible Shayna is better off than she was before.


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## Glow worm (4 Sep 2016)

srw said:


> If her description of the event is accurate (and I make no judgement on that) then he's been a complete nobber and needs a course in basic roadcraft.



Possibly. I'm not sure how much I'd trust an account from a proven raving lunatic though. I guess we'll see.


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## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2016)

I thought of Peter Walker on Friday. I left home at six, went through the Rotherhithe Tunnel, up to Barking, along the old Southend Road to Rainham, turned left past Jewish Cemetery, stopped for a pee in Pea Lane, went east across the drained mashland to Bulphan, then northeast to Little Burstead and Billericay where I stopped for coffee. Then, refreshed, I went through Stock, past the windmill, down Old Stock Lane (which is as delightful a piece of road as I know) through the Hanningfields, Bicknacre, Maldon and then by the sweetest back roads to Tolleshunt D'Arcy before running up through the Wigborough's Great and Small, Peldon and across The Strood to East Mersea where I carried my bike over the dunes to the Staithe and, after a wait, took the boat to Brightlingsea. I took pictures of a yawl (I think) and of clocks and cupolas, of views known to Constable and churches built before the Reformation. I thought of crashing Zepellins, John Ball, men hanged for poaching, samphire and oysterbeds.

From Brightlingsea I rode northeast through Great Bentley, Weeley, the Oakleys, Dovercourt and then to Harwich where I had a bacon sandwich and took the boat to Felixstowe, arriving in dear little Princes Road at about twenty to two. I took pictures of green lanes, ships from China and giant cranes, and thought of Swing Riots and the floods of '53. And I thought of Peter Walker again, because in all that seven hours and forty minutes, all those 91 miles, no motorist had caused me a single breath of anxiety. Not one. Which is par for the course.

The man is a chump. What joys await the cyclist! And how things have improved - in the time that I've been riding out of London, now well over forty years, life for us has never been better! Our bikes are marvels (even as my legs fade), the tarmac is in better repair than it's ever been, and, for all that there is more traffic on the roads, the respect afforded us is greater than it has ever been. It is impossible to convey the joys of cycling in words (and, heaven knows, I've tried) but one can only hope that characters like Walker and Vine will, one day, run out of bad things to say and start letting us know about the good things they, eventually, find on two wheels.

(The clouds were wonderful, but Fotherington-Thomas had dibs on them..)


----------



## glenn forger (5 Sep 2016)

Nicked:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...k-out-bbc-presenter-jeremy-vine-a3336646.html


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## dellzeqq (5 Sep 2016)

we should pass the hat around to pay her fine!


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## Bazzer (5 Sep 2016)

Beeb also reporting it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37277374


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## coffeejo (5 Sep 2016)

User said:


> So Shayna's claiming he was racist cycling...


I read it that she's been on the receiving end of racism since the video went viral.


----------



## Tin Pot (5 Sep 2016)

So what's the odds of a conviction..?

And a meaningful penalty?


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## Globalti (6 Sep 2016)

Dash cams and bike cams are really making life easy for the Police aren't they! As easy as ANPR and average speed cameras; all they have to do it sit tight and wait until somebody naughty drives past then tweet the result to give the impression they're all over the motoring public.


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## dellzeqq (6 Sep 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> So what's the odds of a conviction..?
> 
> And a meaningful penalty?


sadly none. Vine won't even be charged with obstruction. Worse still he'll keep his job, and bore us all to tears with meaningless graphics at the next General Election.


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## jefmcg (6 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> sadly none. Vine won't even be charged with obstruction. Worse still he'll keep his job, and bore us all to tears with meaningless graphics at the next General Election.


I'm not sure why you think he is worse than her. I spent a few minutes googling it, and obstructing the highway is a traffic offence, with a maximum fine of £1000, and I assume usually a FPN of much less (please correct me if I am wrong), while she has been charged with a criminal assault, with potential of incarceration and a record. Maybe it's because I don't watch broadcast TV or listen to radio 2 (I had to google him), but she seems the much more serious offender here.

Oh, yeah, I think if I knew him, I'd hate him. But I hope that's not why you think he is the more serious offender here

Full disclosure: I have stood my ground when a looney came it me, lights and horns a-blazing.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-recent-encounter-with-a-looney.115457/ Not proud, or anything, but hey.


----------



## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2016)

jefmcg said:


> I'm not sure why you think he is worse than her. I spent a few minutes googling it, and obstructing the highway is a traffic offence, with a maximum fine of £1000, and I assume usually a FPN of much less (please correct me if I am wrong), while she has been charged with a criminal assault, with potential of incarceration and a record. Maybe it's because I don't watch broadcast TV or listen to radio 2 (I had to google him), but she seems the much more serious offender here.
> 
> Oh, yeah, I think if I knew him, I'd hate him. But I hope that's not why you think he is the more serious offender here
> 
> ...


I think he's worse than her because he clogs up the airwaves trivialising that which should be trivialised, and he (in company with the dreadful Peter Walker and most of the LCC) is a cycling miserabilist who seems not to enjoy riding a bike. Other than that I don't much care either way.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> I think he's worse than her because he clogs up the airwaves_* trivialising that which should be trivialised*_, and he (in company with the dreadful Peter Walker and most of the LCC) is a cycling miserabilist who seems not to enjoy riding a bike. Other than that I don't much care either way.


Did you miss out a "not" there? 

I'm a lucky chap, I've managed to avoid him so far. Which possibly explains why I have such a sunny disposition.


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## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Did you miss out a "not" there?
> 
> I'm a lucky chap, I've managed to avoid him so far. Which possibly explains why I have such a sunny disposition.


I did - apologies


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2016)

User said:


> I have to agree with @dellzeqq on one thing - Peter Walker is a miserable, naysaying, CEGB acolyte devoid of any personality or wit.


Central Electricity Generating Board?


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## dellzeqq (7 Sep 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Central Electricity Generating Board?


not only are you showing your age, you're inviting a lecture from @swansonj - which is always welcome!


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2016)

As long as there's some pylon action, I'll be happy.


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## perplexed (7 Sep 2016)

Point of order - shouldn't the thread title be 'Gangsta', or 'Gangs'toh'?


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## swansonj (7 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> not only are you showing your age, you're inviting a lecture from @swansonj - which is always welcome!


Always happy to give a lecture. Anything particular in mind? In fact, I was thinking of heading over to "400 ppm" or "wind turbines work" to ask whether anyone else has been tracking the recent absolutely phenomenal rate of installation of solar PV?


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## Venod (7 Sep 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Central Electricity Generating Board?



I used to work for for the CEGB it made money kept people in work and was a leader in electricity generation, research and building of power stations with a mandate to keep the lights on, electricity was no more expensive than it is nowadays, so the govenment sold it off, is todays power supply industry any better ? I don't think so.

Plus I don't get my discount from the YEB shop, why? because they all shut.


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## slowmotion (7 Sep 2016)

*Useless fact alert
*
One of the ex-chairmen of the CEGB had a home made from a converted pig-sty near Bath. It had active solar air collectors for a roof. It's performance was monitored by a visiting American professor who I worked with. He had a refreshingly pragmatic attitude to data accuracy...

"Well, that's close enough for Government work....."


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## winjim (7 Sep 2016)

slowmotion said:


> *Useless fact alert
> *
> One of the ex-chairmen of the CEGB had a home made from a converted pig-sty near Bath. It had active solar air collectors for a roof. It's performance was monitored by a visiting American professor who I worked with. He had a refreshingly pragmatic attitude to data accuracy...
> 
> "Well, that's close enough for Government work....."


Good enough is good enough.


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## dellzeqq (8 Sep 2016)

who was that CEGB chappie that staged a rail crash with a nuclear waste container?


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## Dogtrousers (8 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> who was that CEGB chappie that staged a rail crash with a nuclear waste container?



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc


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## benb (8 Sep 2016)

I saw one where they fired a small military jet along a track into a concrete wall at 500MPH. The jet literally atomised - it turned to dust - but the wall was virtually undamaged.


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## booze and cake (8 Sep 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc




They went to all that effort back then, and this week we hear Sellafield have been storing plutonium and uranium waste in plastic bottles in a cupboard, terrifying. What happened?#cutbacks


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## booze and cake (8 Sep 2016)

I'm not in the tiniest reassured its all OK at Sellafield because that loaded cupboard isn't moving.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Sep 2016)

I question their methodology. I did extensive small scale tests with dinky toys when I was younger, and they always bounced.


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## glasgowcyclist (13 Oct 2016)

The driver of the car has now been charged with a number of offences following her altercation with JV.

From the Evening Standard:

_Scotland Yard confirmed that Pearson, a student, of Vauxhall, was charged on Tuesday with driving without reasonable consideration to other road users, failing to licence a vehicle and using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour.

She has been bailed to appear at Hammersmith Magistrates’ Court on November 8._​


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## Nibor (13 Oct 2016)

The woman who Jeremy Vine filmed in a road rage attack has been charged with among onther offences not paying her "Road Tax" oh the irony.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/woman-charged-over-road-rage-clash-with-jeremy-vine/


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## gavgav (13 Oct 2016)

Good, throw the book at her


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## biggs682 (13 Oct 2016)

Lock her up and throw away the keys


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## Sixmile (13 Oct 2016)

I only know this is being talked about elsewhere as I looked it up earlier.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/jeremy-vine-meets-a-gangster.206318/


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## Nibor (13 Oct 2016)

so it is I looked for that and failed thought it ironic that a road rager would be done for failing to pay their vehicle excise duty.


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## Rooster1 (13 Oct 2016)

You just made my day


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## Lonestar (13 Oct 2016)

Dangerous tithead of a driver.

Stupid though.Breaking the law beforehand so decides to have a confrontation with another road user.


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## Andy_R (13 Oct 2016)

Nibor said:


> so it is I looked for that and failed thought it ironic that a road rager would be done for failing to pay their road fund licence *vehicle excise duty*.


FTFY


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## Arjimlad (13 Oct 2016)

Great. That driver should not be allowed out without a nurse.


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## Nibor (13 Oct 2016)

Fixed it for myself lol ROAD TAX!


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## raleighnut (13 Oct 2016)

Maybe the best thing would be to make her re-sit the test after a ban.


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## coffeejo (13 Oct 2016)

Arjimlad said:


> Great. That driver should not be allowed out without a nurse.


Some people are nobbers without having mental health issues. And some of us like to think we can have the latter without people saying we're the former.


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## Arjimlad (13 Oct 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Some people are nobbers without having mental health issues. And some of us like to think we can have the latter without people saying we're the former.



Agreed, I was just thinking of the level of aggression shown, way beyond what's civilised & acceptable.


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## coffeejo (13 Oct 2016)

Arjimlad said:


> Agreed, I was just thinking of the level of aggression shown, way beyond what's civilised & acceptable.


Doesn't mean that mental health is an issue and IMHO, insinuations that it does just furthers the stereotype that people with mental health problems shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised as they (we) are a danger to society.

As I said, some people just aren't very nice.


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## Arjimlad (13 Oct 2016)

coffeejo said:


> Doesn't mean that mental health is an issue and IMHO, insinuations that it does just furthers the stereotype that people with mental health problems shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised as they (we) are a danger to society.
> 
> As I said, some people just aren't very nice.



I didn't want to further any stereotype and sorry if I have.


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## fossyant (13 Oct 2016)

She was a fairly 'wealthy' student with a gutter trash attitude.


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## Leedsbusdriver (13 Oct 2016)

What's happened to the OP? A flounce?


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## coffeejo (14 Oct 2016)

Arjimlad said:


> I didn't want to further any stereotype and sorry if I have.


No worries. It's not something I thought about until I became ill.


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## Markymark (14 Oct 2016)

Leedsbusdriver said:


> What's happened to the OP? A flounce?


I hope so.


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## Drago (14 Oct 2016)

I haven't been reported to the Mods once since he finally disappeared up his own bottom.


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## Arjimlad (14 Oct 2016)

coffeejo said:


> No worries. It's not something I thought about until I became ill.


 
I have been wondering what to say instead ?

Should not be allowed out without appropriate anger management training ?  Passing a driving test seems not to have worked !!


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## Drago (14 Oct 2016)

Whether they are 'ill' or not is open to question, but such behaviour is indicative of some kind of psychological issue. After all, how many sane and rational people in full control of their intellect and behaviour behave in that way?


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## Drago (14 Oct 2016)

You must move in some strange circles as one can not be both rational and also behave in an irrational manner. I would wholeheartedly agree with your observation about such behaviour being a cultural issue in many cases.


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## Drago (14 Oct 2016)

User said:


> Not really. One can be rational (i.e. understand the implications of different courses of action) but still choose to take a course of action that not not in your best interests (i.e. irrational). We do it although the time. For example, altruistic actions are often irrational.


Do you think that at the moment she was yawping off, blood pressure through the roof, vision tunnelling, auditory exclusion setting in, large gestures with arms and hands, ground kicking, occasional target acquisition glances, that she understood fully the potential consequences of her actions? Once the beast is unleashed these are physiological reactions almost impossible to control. Physiologically she was displaying all the signs of a creature preparing for combat. At that moment in time she may have believed her behaviour was rational, as do many of us in an unusual or stressful situation, but on a London street with no physical threat to react or defend against it clearly was not. She was under the control of base physiological programming, and rational, well adjusted members of society to not enter those behavioural areas without genuine stimuli.


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## Markymark (14 Oct 2016)

User said:


> Not really. One can be rational (i.e. understand the implications of different courses of action) but still choose to take a course of action that not not in your best interests (i.e. irrational). We do it although the time. For example, altruistic actions are often irrational.


Depends whether you think acting for a group against one's interests is irrational. We, and many other species, have evolved to often act for the good of the group or family against our personal interests. It's entirely rational.


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## benb (14 Oct 2016)

Nobody is rational all the time.
There seems to be something about driving that exacerbates the extent of some people's irrational behaviour.


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## ianrauk (1 Feb 2017)

Driver who screamed abuse at Jeremy Vine is convicted of road rage

From the *Guardian*


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Feb 2017)

ianrauk said:


> Driver who screamed abuse at Jeremy Vine is convicted of road rage
> 
> From the *Guardian*



And she's already got a conviction for ABH from 2012 when she got a suspended sentence. Here's hoping it's prison for her now.


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## benb (1 Feb 2017)

> Her lawyer, James O’Keeffe, said Vine’s involvement in the case had ensured the case was far more high profile than it should have been and said Pearson had faced racial abuse as a result



I don't condone any abuse, racial or otherwise, that the defendant received, but as it relates to the case itself, so farking what? It's completely irrelevant to the facts of the case.


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## Electric_Andy (1 Feb 2017)

Great news. I hope she does go to jail, give her time to reflect on her attitude towards other humans.


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## hatler (1 Feb 2017)

I'd far rather she received a lengthy (in the order of years) driving ban rather than a prison sentence. She's shown she is clearly unfit to drive.


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Feb 2017)

hatler said:


> I'd far rather she received a lengthy (in the order of years) driving ban rather than a prison sentence.



Hopefully the Crown Court won't consider those as either/or options.


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## Arjimlad (1 Feb 2017)

You really never know who you're dealing with sometimes...

_"Pearson was nine months into a suspended sentence for theft, assault causing actual bodily harm, and resisting arrest at the time of the altercation with Vine. King commited her case to Isleworth crown court for sentencing. 

O’Keeffe said Pearson was a single mother and the incident was “out of character in the sense it was unplanned, it was impulsive and it was something which she in her interview with the police is very willing to accept and did accept she was wrong”."_


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## jefmcg (1 Feb 2017)

benb said:


> I don't condone any abuse, racial or otherwise, that the defendant received, but as it relates to the case itself, so farking what? It's completely irrelevant to the facts of the case.


I assume that is about sentencing. The court should take into account if she has already been punished. 

That being said, can she avoid prison? I thought if you committed a crime during a suspended sentence, then you have to serve that sentence. The only question is how much they add to it.


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Feb 2017)

Well, she may be going down. Just reading her poorly written text that she made in court speaks volumes about education and attitude.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (1 Feb 2017)

And mid trial she goes on twitter and threatens someone else.


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Feb 2017)

User said:


> You can't convict someone for poor education, apart from Derek Bentley of course.


 No, I agree. I was just commenting on the poor spelling in the text.


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## BrumJim (1 Feb 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> You really never know who you're dealing with sometimes...
> 
> _"Pearson was nine months into a suspended sentence for theft, assault causing actual bodily harm, and resisting arrest at the time of the altercation with Vine. King commited her case to Isleworth crown court for sentencing.
> 
> O’Keeffe said Pearson was a single mother and the incident was “out of character in the sense it was unplanned, it was impulsive and it was something which she in her interview with the police is very willing to accept and did accept she was wrong”."_



So her crimes are usually planned and well thought out?


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## jefmcg (1 Feb 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> No, I agree. I was just commenting on the poor spelling in the text.


What text?


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## Kestevan (1 Feb 2017)

jefmcg said:


> What text?


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## benb (1 Feb 2017)

jefmcg said:


> I thought if you committed a crime during a suspended sentence, then you have to serve that sentence.



I think it depends on the nature of the offence committed during the suspension.


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## jefmcg (1 Feb 2017)

Kestevan said:


> View attachment 335766


Wow.

It's not spelling, or the rage that bothers me the most, it's the stupidity. Does she not know twitter is public? Surely her lawyer has told her she must appear to be repentant. 



benb said:


> I think it depends on the nature of the offence committed during the suspension.


Yes. And we don''t have mandatory sentencing in the UK**, so it's always at the courts discretion. 

**Googled it, and yes we do, but not for this class of offence.


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## Cycleops (1 Feb 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Wow.
> 
> It's not spelling, or the rage that bothers me the most, it's the stupidity. Does she not know twitter is public? Surely her lawyer has told her she must appear to be repentant.


The rage might bother you if she was the one driving a few inches off your back wheel. She's already tweeted another cyclist that next time she won't be stopping.

Unfortunately there's no cure for stupid.

Just hope she gets a few months behind bars to help cool her down, but I doubt it. Thoroughly unpleasant individual.


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## betty swollocks (1 Feb 2017)

Fling her into an oubliette: ghastly creature.


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## jefmcg (1 Feb 2017)

Cycleops said:


> The rage might bother you if she was the one driving a few inches off your back wheel.


Oh, I was concerned about the rage in August, I am just talking about that stupid message.



betty swollocks said:


> oubliette


Thank you. That's now my word of the day.


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## Kestevan (1 Feb 2017)

I suspect the chances of her getting locked up to be somewhere short of slim to none - despite the previous convictions.

Her brief will wheel out the "single mother" defence and it will be a slap on the wrist and a spot of community service... a small fine, some points, and a short ban (if we're lucky) and she'll leave happy.

Personally I'd prefer a really long driving ban (10 years should do it for a start) and the confiscation and crushing of her car.... although I suspect that wouldn't change her entitlement fuelled, idiotic rage... as pointed out already you can't cure stupid.


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## Sara_H (1 Feb 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> You really never know who you're dealing with sometimes...
> 
> _"Pearson was nine months into a suspended sentence for theft, assault causing actual bodily harm, and resisting arrest at the time of the altercation with Vine. King commited her case to Isleworth crown court for sentencing.
> 
> O’Keeffe said Pearson was a single mother and the incident was “out of character in the sense it was unplanned, it was impulsive and it was something which she in her interview with the police is very willing to accept and did accept she was wrong”."_


In other words, she usually plans her assaults in advance. Delightful.


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Feb 2017)

Then,there's this idiot:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-38730051

'I'm an excellent driver'...WTF??..

No pal, if you were 'excellent', you wouldn't have been banned the first time. The penultimate line clearly demonstrates this person's inability to understand the meaning of the word _banned_.


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## Hitchington (1 Feb 2017)

lock 'er up and throw away the door


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## potsy (1 Feb 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Then,there's this idiot:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-38730051
> 
> 'I'm an excellent driver'...WTF??..
> ...


Excellent? 



> The court heard Elliott had 12 previous convictions for driving while disqualified


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## captain nemo1701 (1 Feb 2017)

potsy said:


> Excellent?


Yeah, I almost gagged on my sarnie at work when I read that.


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## Tin Pot (1 Feb 2017)

Kestevan said:


> I suspect the chances of her getting locked up to be somewhere short of slim to none - despite the previous convictions.
> 
> Her brief will wheel out the "single mother" defence and it will be a slap on the wrist and a spot of community service... a small fine, some points, and a short ban (if we're lucky) and she'll leave happy.
> 
> Personally I'd prefer a really long driving ban (10 years should do it for a start) and the confiscation and crushing of her car.... although I suspect that wouldn't change her entitlement fuelled, idiotic rage... as pointed out already you can't cure stupid.



See, another reason to reinstate exile to the justice system. Apparently they want to colonise Mars.


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## Tin Pot (1 Feb 2017)

potsy said:


> Excellent?



How the hell is the justice system working if he's been free to do this after *12 previous convictions* for driving while disqualified?


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## deptfordmarmoset (1 Feb 2017)

Hitchington said:


> lock 'er up and throw away the door


Lock the cell and throw her away.


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## winjim (1 Feb 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Thank you. That's now my word of the day.


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## DaveReading (1 Feb 2017)

I used to know what it meant, but I've forgotten.


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## Tin Pot (1 Feb 2017)

winjim said:


> View attachment 335815



Well, I don't see how she'd mix with the eggs and milk and anyway I prefer pancakes.


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## glasgowcyclist (1 Mar 2017)

And now this thug is to lodge an appeal against her conviction..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39125341


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## Poacher (1 Mar 2017)

It'll be interesting to find out what grounds she thinks she has to appeal against conviction. Could she incur a more severe sentence than she would otherwise have done? Let's hope the 9 month suspended sentence will also be imposed, to run consecutively.


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## Pale Rider (2 Mar 2017)

Poacher said:


> It'll be interesting to find out what grounds she thinks she has to appeal against conviction. Could she incur a more severe sentence than she would otherwise have done? Let's hope the 9 month suspended sentence will also be imposed, to run consecutively.



Looking at the video, she toots Vine and says something about 'I could be done for murder'.

Presumably she meant his poor cycling could have caused her to injure him and face charges.

That part of her reaction doesn't amount to threatening behaviour.

The gun sign might, but that's not clear to me from the video, and she may have a lie ready to cover it which will be hard to disprove.

Regrettably, I think her appeal stands a chance, assuming there's not lots of other evidence.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (18 Apr 2017)

And she looses the appeal...

A driver filmed screaming obscenities at BBC presenter Jeremy Vine as he cycled through London has been jailed after losing an appeal against her conviction for threatening behaviour....

At the time of the incident, she was subject to a suspended sentence for a string of previous convictions for robbery, thefts and assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39629808


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## RoubaixCube (18 Apr 2017)

Good riddance


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## Markymark (18 Apr 2017)

RoubaixCube said:


> Good riddance


You're assuming the judge will bother to put her in prison?


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## si_c (18 Apr 2017)

Markymark said:


> You're assuming the judge will bother to put her in prison?



Nine months.


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## Markymark (18 Apr 2017)

si_c said:


> Nine months.


How are you certain? She is in breach of suspended sentence but until she's in prison it may not happen. Sentencing will take place take month.


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## Tim Hall (18 Apr 2017)

Markymark said:


> How are you certain? She is in breach of suspended sentence but until she's in prison it may not happen. Sentencing will take place take month.


The bbc article opens with


> A driver filmed screaming obscenities at BBC presenter Jeremy Vine as he cycled through London has been jailed after losing an appeal against her conviction for threatening behaviour.


And later says:


> Pearson was jailed for nine months following the appeal hearing at Isleworth Crown Court.



Linky


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## Markymark (18 Apr 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> The bbc article opens with
> 
> And later says:
> 
> ...


Good news!


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## r04DiE (18 Apr 2017)

Good. Gangster that, baby.


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## ianrauk (18 Apr 2017)

At last, some good news.


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## glasgowcyclist (18 Apr 2017)

TwickenhamCyclist said:


> A driver filmed screaming obscenities at BBC presenter Jeremy Vine as he cycled through London has been jailed after losing an appeal against her conviction for threatening behaviour....


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## fossyant (18 Apr 2017)

Lovely lass ?


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## Dogtrousers (18 Apr 2017)

Police thingy
http://news.met.police.uk/news/woman-jailed-following-road-rage-incident-in-kensington-236080


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## raleighnut (18 Apr 2017)

Will the unlicenced vehicle be taken and crushed though.


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## KnackeredBike (18 Apr 2017)

Good but I bet the police wouldn't bother if it was one of us mere mortals. I know they certainl didn't bother for me - "The best we can hope for is that they pay for the damage to your bike".


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## Tin Pot (19 Apr 2017)

Shame that she's jailed relating to previous suspended rather than the driving offence alone, but it's a bloody good start.


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## jefmcg (19 Apr 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Shame that she's jailed relating to previous suspended rather than the driving offence alone, but it's a bloody good start.


According to the police article, she got a month for the offences on video, which seems about right.


----------

