# Raleigh Record Ace 1982



## Sterba (5 Aug 2013)

I recently rebuilt a 1982 Raleigh Record Ace. It looked pretty much as it left the Nottingham factory, with some signs of wear and tear. I can attach some more photos if anyone is intersted in seeing how the job progressed?

In 1982, club cyclists were often rather snobby about Raleighs, since they were standard bikes, not made to measure for the owner. Raleigh had sought to address this image problem by acquiring Carlton, later bringing production of these hand made steeds into the main factory. The quality rubbed off on the mass-produced frames. More of them used 531, the lugwork became finer, the fluted tops to the seat stays were attached more carefully, Campag-like ends appeared. By 1982, the Nottingham-built Raleigh Record Ace was a fine road bike, well-equipped with Campag, Mavic, Weinmann and some in-house components, all in lightweight alloy. 

I am a steel-frame chap, but I am not so hung up on the original equipment that came with them at that time, so I have modified the bike to meet my current needs. I hope this won't upset the purists out there?

Now I am not sure if this is Ilkeston or Worksop, what do you think?


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## AndyRM (5 Aug 2013)

Chain looks a bit slack.


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## PeteXXX (5 Aug 2013)

More of a Spoke issue I reckon!


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## AndyRM (6 Aug 2013)

PeteXXX said:


> More of a Spoke issue I reckon!


 
You're looking at brand new Gossamer Aero Spokes there pal. Incredibly light and nearly invisible to the naked eye.


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## Sterba (6 Aug 2013)

Here is the before shot. As you can see, this is a nicely proportioned 23" frame. In 1982, the rear brake cable still ran along the top tube, and down tube gear levers were the norm. The gear cables ran under the bottom bracket, but in a cable housing made without a plastic coating, as the corners are quite tight. The clearance is still for 27 X 1.25", but the wheels it was supplied with are 700 X 28mm, which created a brake drop issue during the updating (see later). The Brooks Professional saddle has a lovely patina and the mudguards are in a golden green that nicely offsets the frame colour. The fluted tops of the seat days are a Raleigh signature, nice enough to be copied on a Condor Superbe I have seen. More about the components coming soon.


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## apb (6 Aug 2013)

Nice work!

i can't see the original picture, looks like a broken link.

I too am a fan of steel frames but not the original components and i think with Raleighs, because they are quite common, purists don't get to hung up on a Frankenstein concoction.

If i regret one thing about my custom build, with a raleigh frame, it was i didn't research enough about the frame (i.e. age/ bottom bracket threading). I think this and budget lead me to choose poorly when it came to the bottom bracket. Because the shell was 68mm i assumed the frame was maybe early 90's and would take a modern bottom bracket. I now have, with regret, a threadless bottom bracket in the bike after trying a stronglight and shimano threaded. Did you have any issues with such an old frame?


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## Sterba (6 Aug 2013)

You haven't missed anything, only two pics shown so far.

The BB casing took a standard English threaded 68 X 107 Shimano JIS square taper sealed bearing/axle unit, purchased on-line from the usual supplier. No probs with that.


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## RecordAceFromNew (7 Aug 2013)

Sterba said:


> Here is the before shot. As you can see, this is a nicely proportioned 23" frame. In 1982, the rear brake cable still ran along the top tube, and down tube gear levers were the norm. The gear cables ran under the bottom bracket, but in a cable housing made without a plastic coating, as the corners are quite tight. The clearance is still for 27 X 1.25", but the wheels it was supplied with are 700 X 28mm, which created a brake drop issue during the updating (see later). The Brooks Professional saddle has a lovely patina and the mudguards are in a golden green that nicely offsets the frame colour. The fluted tops of the seat days are a Raleigh signature, nice enough to be copied on a Condor Superbe I have seen. More about the components coming soon.


 

I have a May 1982 RRA from new. Brooks weren't the original saddle, they were brown suede covered, made in Italy, unbranded but very comfy and I still have it somewhere. The original BB is Tange traditional standard British thread of 118mm JIS that delivers a suitable chainline with the Sakae Ringyo Custom 52/42 chainset. Mine certainly came with an Ultra 6 freewheel on a 120mm rear hub, and they definitely had 27 x 1 1/4" rims. My brakes weren't the original Weinman 605 single pivot calipers because they were considered slightly iffy for a laden bike even then and were swapped by the shop before collection for Mafac 2000 racing centrepulls. I had to swap them for long drop dual pivot calipers when I modernised the wheels to 700c. These bikes were sold as "sports tourer" (hence mudguards and eyes) and I bought it for LeJoG. Mine is now just under 10kg despite being a 25". Nice bike!

The original 82 brochure pages below might be of interest to you:










Below from the 83 catalogue:






Below from 84 catalogue:


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## Sterba (7 Aug 2013)

Thanks for showing the catalogues. Like you, I expect the original owner of this one asked for a few mods before he took delivery. The Brooks saddle seems to have had the same amount of use as other items, so could well have been fitted from new. The wheels on this one are a step up from standard, very fine Mavic rims, D/B but not stainless spokes, and Campag Gran Sport L/F Q/R hubs. No brake hoods, which might have worn away with use, and thick foam handlebar covers, which were probably a later fit. Clearly, the Weinmann 605 brakes can cope with both 700c and 27" rims, but they couldn't stop a rice pudding sliding down a drain.


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## Cycleops (7 Aug 2013)

The L/F hubs are an odd fitment as they were out of fashion by that time. The thick foam handlebar grips are "Grab-on" from the US. Nice bike.


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## Sterba (11 Aug 2013)

So, with apologies for the delay, here is the rest of the story about the conversion of my Raleigh Record Ace. First, here are the components I took off. The bike was completely dismantled. The bits were a mix of famous brands and minimally-branded items, likely made for Raleigh by SR in Japan. The brochure kindly shown earlier by RRAfromnew gives better details. All of mine are in pretty good condition, more or less a complete groupset. The freewheel is a 6-speed and the downtube levers are not indexed. The cranks are lightly scuffed by toestraps, although the bike didn't come with pedals. Front and rear derailleurs are Campag Gran Sport. Weinmann 603s. The fluted seatpin appears in the 83 catalogue, although the frame was made in the previous year, I guess it took a while to build.





Here is what happened next. Apologies to you purists, but this has turned it into my ideal bike. The stem is still a bit high, but I start at that level and then gradually reduce it, to avoid scuff marks. Shimano flat bar levers are very easy to use and give great pull. Shimano 7 speed clicker on the right and 3 speed on the left, simple and effective. Alvio 7 speed derailleur at the back and nondescript Shimano front changer I happened to have lying around. A triple Sugino XD600 chainset with Stronglight (prob made by Sugino anyway) alloy rings (bought from Spa Cycles in Harrogate, a very good chainset supplier). The rings are 30/40/50. Actually, other examples of this chainset I have bought, with Sugino rings, have a slightly better fit than these, while here, the area of the ring next to the bolt doesn't quite match the spider. A GBP10 handlebar suits me, the winged, bolted-on rubbers cost twice that! A GBP10 alloy stem is fine, although you have to cover up the hole for centre pull brakes with the computer. The brakes are Tektro, 339 at the front and 539 at the back, where the 700 wheels in a frame designed for 27 inch wheels required the long drop model. Dual pivot brakes are so much stronger than the old ones. These have a particularly wide QR, allowing easier wheel removal. GBP10 seat pillar is 27.2. Saddle is a leather Terry Liberator gel, very comfortable. Rackbag by Author in Prague. Rack found on a skip and straightened up in a vice, new rear light fixed in a way that makes it difficult to nick. Quite difficult to fit, as it has to share the mudguard eyelets (so, long bolts) and had to be clamped to the frame, as there are no brazings for it on the seat frame Headset original, covered in anti-rust solution. BB is new Shimano cartridge 68/107. Wheels are the original Mavic/Campag Gran Sport LF. Mudguards are the original matching golden green ones. The biggest problem was switching from a 14-28 six speed freewheel to a 13-32 seven speed item. I had to put a 2mm spacer on the axle so that the chain would clear the frame end. That meant re-dishing the wheel slightly to keep it on the centre-line. Lots of broken spokes later (despite liberal doses of WD40), replaced with the correct double butted items, I finally managed to true it up in the new position. Difficult but worth it, as I need granny gears to get up my local slope. Tyres new Conti Contacts 700 X 28, lots of comforting tread and in my experience very good at resisting punctures. I run them at circa 100psi. Pedals by MKS, exact copy of Campags of that era, toeclips also copies, of Christophe. Finding a double cable-stop for the gear cables at the top of the downtube meant some rumaging around, as these are rather expensive if you want to buy a newish one.

In a word, just right for me. I hope you like it.

Any questions, or just no interest?


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## raindog (11 Aug 2013)

You've made a smashing job of that. Love it. Well done.
(hope you didn't chuck that Gran Sport rear mech away, though!)


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## Sterba (11 Aug 2013)

Thanks for the kind words. All original parts kept, in case one day there is an economic argument for restoring the bike to its to original condition, not something I am currently planning to do, though.


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## biggs682 (11 Aug 2013)

nice job done well


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## RecordAceFromNew (11 Aug 2013)

Sterba said:


> Shimano flat bar levers are very easy to use and give great pull.
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


 
Do you have the model code of those Shimano brake levers? I would imagine they have to be vintage canti brake levers to deliver the right cable pull - I think few if any modern flat bar brake lever can work with calipers.

I suspect your old freewheel is an Ultra 6, 27mm wide rather than the 31mm of a typical 6 speed freewheels nowadays, or else you wouldn't have had to mess with the hub/dish since modern 7 speed freewheels are only marginally wider at 32mm. I am unsure is there is a great demand, but those Ultra 6 are rare nowadays.


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## Sterba (12 Aug 2013)

The levers are Shimano BL - R550, widely available for around GBP 15, and designed for calipers. The cable pull with the calipers is quite short. It is the V brakes that need the longer pull because of their greater leverage, but you can get levers like this with a two position cable end holder, so they can do either.

Yes, the 6 speed block was the original narrow one, the 7 speed ones are fat enough to fit modern 130mm drop outs and fill the same space as a 9 speed at least. The Alvio derailleur is the highest spec you can go in Shimano to get the correct shifting on the more widely spaced 7 speed freewheels. Above that spec, the parallogram is different, although they do work OK.


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## thegravestoneman (12 Aug 2013)

I too had one like that from new to until last year when the travelling folk decided they deserved it more than me. Mine had several updates from the original spec over the years including a change in colour to a darker green ( to match Greene King Abbots cans at the time sign written Abbot as well, oh and the head badge cut from the can) whilst having cantilevers and downtube braze-ons added. I found that the change from 27 to 700c made it feel more planted on the road but made the pedals catch on corners. I think I still have one original brake and the 4 wheel guides for the brakes that I fitted to something else. The joy of any bike is making them fit your needs. The RRA was the last bike I bought 'out of the box' until this year with my Cinelli although I did spec some changes on that before I rode it home.

Enjoy....


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## Sterba (12 Aug 2013)

You must have been going round corners very fast to bump the pedals on the ground!


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## thegravestoneman (12 Aug 2013)

Putting the smaller 700c wheels on just lowered it enough to make the difference, also yes I liked throwing my bikes about in my yoof!


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## AndyRM (13 Aug 2013)

That's a really good looking bike you've built there. Take it you didn't fancy the Gossamer Aero Spokes I mentioned then?


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## Sterba (13 Aug 2013)

I looked into it, but they were a bit too expensive at this time of the year. The silk worms only spin the thread when there is an "R" in the month, and it doesn't keep well until it is bonded into multi-strands. Others have told me that wheels with GA spokes are very comfortable to ride, but in the end I decided to stick with the original Jenolite-covered rusty steel DBs because my LBS could match them with cut-to-size ones to replace those that wouldn't spring loose from the nipples when I tried to adjust them. I'll take another look at GAs when I build my next wheelset. Thanks for the tip.


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## bikerchaz (15 Jan 2015)

Sterba said:


> So, with apologies for the delay, here is the rest of the story about the conversion of my Raleigh Record Ace. First, here are the components I took off. The bike was completely dismantled. The bits were a mix of famous brands and minimally-branded items, likely made for Raleigh by SR in Japan. The brochure kindly shown earlier by RRAfromnew gives better details. All of mine are in pretty good condition, more or less a complete groupset. The freewheel is a 6-speed and the downtube levers are not indexed. The cranks are lightly scuffed by toestraps, although the bike didn't come with pedals. Front and rear derailleurs are Campag Gran Sport. Weinmann 603s. The fluted seatpin appears in the 83 catalogue, although the frame was made in the previous year, I guess it took a while to build.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sterba said:


> Here is the before shot. As you can see, this is a nicely proportioned 23" frame. In 1982, the rear brake cable still ran along the top tube, and down tube gear levers were the norm. The gear cables ran under the bottom bracket, but in a cable housing made without a plastic coating, as the corners are quite tight. The clearance is still for 27 X 1.25", but the wheels it was supplied with are 700 X 28mm, which created a brake drop issue during the updating (see later). The Brooks Professional saddle has a lovely patina and the mudguards are in a golden green that nicely offsets the frame colour. The fluted tops of the seat days are a Raleigh signature, nice enough to be copied on a Condor Superbe I have seen. More about the components coming soon.


Nice job I owned one of these in mid 80s always regretted selling it I'm on the look out for a steel frame for a project hope it turns out as good as yours


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## Torslanda (21 Jan 2015)

bikerchaz said:


> Nice job I owned one of these in mid 80s always regretted selling it I'm on the look out for a steel frame for a project hope it turns out as good as yours



A customer came in to the shop last year with a printout of (IIRC) the 1981 catalogue. His opening line was 'I had one of these when I was 17 and I'd like another . . .' Taking a little time and coffee it turned out he wasn't averse to a quality 531 frameset of a similar vintage ie it didn't_ have_ to be a RRA. I had a Carlton from 1980 and a bunch of similar vintage parts and built him this.


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## raleighnut (22 Jan 2015)

Very nice.


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## bigjim (23 Jan 2015)

I don't have a problem with the stopping abilities of Weinnman 500 brakes. They might need a bit more fettling or maybe servicing as they are pretty old. However the secret is to make sure the spring is lubricated in the attachment hole it slides in. They were also designed to be used from the drops as handlebars in earlier days were a lot higher and more riding was done on the drops. I find mine, used properly, powerful enough and have toured many miles on them with no problems and I am no lightweight. The bike in my Avatar pic was fitted with them as standard. I never felt the need to change them.


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## 531Man (20 Mar 2019)

Hi all - I know I'm reviving an oldish thread, but this very bike, a RRA 531c is kind-of the reason for my 'handle'.
Bought from new in a Raleigh dealership in Chatham High St. at discount - the bike shop needed the space for the later model coming in.
Hence I only got the '84 catalogue, not the correct earlier ones seen above. So only today, 35 years later do I learn my bike is Ice Green, not Fern Green as there is no discernable difference in the catalogue photos from what I can see!
Anyway - lovely update job done there.
I have also changed the BB (kept the grease though ) to standard Shimano 68mm, no problem.
I think I needed it slightly longer than the Tange original for the inner ring to clear the chainstay. Provided by an old pro. shop Ken James, Ashford, Kent - now retired to the Alps I believe.
I still have and use it regularly/frequently riding out to Wye, Kent.
Talking of old pros., my LBS when a schoolboy racer (Wigmore Cycling Club) was Bill Philbrook, Arden Street, Gillingham (PAG).
Great chap with a beaming smile; if he was in a chatty mood (almost always) you would get a mug of tea with added smeared shop grease on the outside for free. 
I lost touch when I stopped racing, and had no idea he was so famous and respected a frame builder until interweb days and found his life history/story on Classic Lightweights UK.
I can remember today the lugless track frame in his window, painted in blended-in proper light-spectrum colour scheme on each main tube - absolutely stunning.
I have seen others' attempts, nicely painted but they have all had the colours wrong!
Ah - memories - those were the days.
Like overtaking my Chemistry teacher in his car, me on my old Dawes Star Realmrider (stripped down - of course) going down Chatham Hill to a cycling fitness training evening.
I still have that bike too. In bit of a sorry state - I must do something about it, now I come to think of it.
Bye for now,
Robin.


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## 531Man (20 Mar 2019)

raindog said:


> You've made a smashing job of that. Love it. Well done.
> (hope you didn't chuck that Gran Sport rear mech away, though!)



Hi - I had these, Nuovo Tipo Gran Sport, from new on my Raleigh Record Ace,
to quote VeloBase,
"finny _Vintage User_ on 07/11/16 


Kind of crude in appearance and finish opposed to higher end models but still works great. Bonus: steel cage is pretty tough and durable and a whole lot cooler then your average derailleur.
koldfushen _VeloBase User_ on 03/30/17 


I was very surprised when I used this derailleur. Often shunned as the cheap step child to the NR and SR models, this derailleur shifted my 6 speed freewheel smooth as butter. Used it in harsh condition as well. I was surprised."

The use of those hex-headed bolts instead of Allen key sockets spoils it for me. 
You wern't thinking of the original Gran Sport from the 50's-60's were you?
Much more charismatic.
And rebuildable, made of plated Bronze. 
Regards,
Robin.


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## Grant Fondo (20 Mar 2019)

531Man said:


> Hi all - I know I'm reviving an oldish thread, but this very bike, a RRA 531c is kind-of the reason for my 'handle'.
> Bought from new in a Raleigh dealership in Chatham High St. at discount - the bike shop needed the space for the later model coming in.
> Hence I only got the '84 catalogue, not the correct earlier ones seen above. So only today, 35 years later do I learn my bike is Ice Green, not Fern Green as there is no discernable difference in the catalogue photos from what I can see!
> Anyway - lovely update job done there.
> ...


Glad you revived the thread as one of the best classics bikes seen on this humble forum. The bike of my dreams in the 80s...alas couldn't afford one so got a nasty 'mail order' piece of cr*p which fell apart cycle camping on the IOW. You gets what you pay for!


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## PHL67 (20 Mar 2019)

Sterba said:


> So, with apologies for the delay, here is the rest of the story about the conversion of my Raleigh Record Ace. First, here are the components I took off. The bike was completely dismantled. The bits were a mix of famous brands and minimally-branded items, likely made for Raleigh by SR in Japan. The brochure kindly shown earlier by RRAfromnew gives better details. All of mine are in pretty good condition, more or less a complete groupset. The freewheel is a 6-speed and the downtube levers are not indexed. The cranks are lightly scuffed by toestraps, although the bike didn't come with pedals. Front and rear derailleurs are Campag Gran Sport. Weinmann 603s. The fluted seatpin appears in the 83 catalogue, although the frame was made in the previous year, I guess it took a while to build.
> View attachment 256104
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice job.


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## carpenter (20 Mar 2019)

531Man said:


> ............
> I have also changed the BB (kept the grease though ) ..............
> 
> Bye for now,
> Robin.



Handy tip - I have been wondering how to cut costs on my renovations


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## SkipdiverJohn (20 Mar 2019)

Grant Fondo said:


> Glad you revived the thread as one of the best classics bikes seen on this humble forum. The bike of my dreams in the 80s...alas couldn't afford one so got a nasty 'mail order' piece of cr*p which fell apart cycle camping on the IOW. You gets what you pay for!



You gets what you pay for new. Secondhand, you can usually get a lot more than what you pay for, sometimes a large multiple more. So, with grown up wages and the passage of time, all those too-expensive bikes as youngsters are now relatively speaking, cheap as chips. Fill yer boots with vintage steel and enjoy!


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## 531Man (21 Mar 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You gets what you pay for new. Secondhand, you can usually get a lot more than what you pay for, sometimes a large multiple more. So, with grown up wages and the passage of time, all those too-expensive bikes as youngsters are now relatively speaking, cheap as chips. Fill yer boots with vintage steel and enjoy!



Just started on doing just that - I now have collected a Dave Yates 531st, Holdsworth Elan 84' 531 pretending to be a Professional (not with false labels, thank goodness) in beautiful metallic orange with blue panels colour scheme, and '86 Marlboro Triath Elan 531c, and a random Geoffrey Butler in Columbus Acciaio Speciale, whatever grade that is, a bit ugly in colours of brown/silver. All to be built up. Oh, and a Raleigh Lady Royale 531 for my lady, to replace her gas-pipe Silhouette (bicycle , that is). 
Yes - I've just retired, and trying to regain my youth.
It is in the blood, as my father raced a Curly Hetchins that he picked up himself from the workshop. And no , he didn't leave it to me as it went to pay for a house move in '63.
Regards,
Robin.


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## raleighnut (21 Mar 2019)

This is my 531c bike,







A Raleigh Road Ace, admittedly a bit uprated with modernish bits


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## 531Man (28 Mar 2019)

"This is my 531c bike,
A Raleigh Road Ace, admittedly a bit uprated with modernish bits"

Hi - I just looked at this again, and think the bike is a little bit more than uprated.
Are those front mudguard eyes I see behind the front wheel nuts?
Surely, this is a racer, and had none. Have those forks been replaced, as well?
The saddle is nice - is it a Lycett Swallow? Like the one my Dawes came with and still has?
And just how tall are you, with that frame and seat post height?
Best regards,
Robin.


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## raleighnut (28 Mar 2019)

531Man said:


> "This is my 531c bike,
> A Raleigh Road Ace, admittedly a bit uprated with modernish bits"
> 
> Hi - I just looked at this again, and think the bike is a little bit more than uprated.
> ...


Yep new forks, the old ones were toast (bent) and those were the only similar ones I could find with a cast 'shouldered' crown. the saddle is one of the 2004 Brooks Swallow Limited Edition Titanium (a run of 999 individual numbered pieces each with a matching numbered 'certificate of authenticity) they differ from the later standard Swallow Titanium by having a hand-stitched bottom edge instead of simply being cut to shape.






As for height I'm a tad under 6 feet now (I've shrunk a bit but then I am in my late 50s) but I've got long legs in fact I take 34" inside leg trousers so I've got standover height on this frame.

It was my 'quick' bike for a few years until I got my 653 TT frame which I built into an even quicker bike with mainly Campagnolo components as it had a Campagnolo Headset and Seatpost when I bought it,






I have no idea who built this frame but it has some lovely touches like the cable guide tube inside the top tube, nice 'spearpoint' lugs and a gorgeous seat post cluster,





Unfortunately it has no badges or decals and no frame number anywhere, best guess in many of the shops I've asked if they recognise it is it's a handbuilt special.

Oh and BTW those wheels are Roval (Specialized) Classique Pave.


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## Illaveago (29 Mar 2019)

raleighnut said:


> Yep new forks, the old ones were toast (bent) and those were the only similar ones I could find with a cast 'shouldered' crown. the saddle is one of the 2004 Brooks Swallow Limited Edition Titanium (a run of 999 individual numbered pieces each with a matching numbered 'certificate of authenticity) they differ from the later standard Swallow Titanium by having a hand-stitched bottom edge instead of simply being cut to shape.
> 
> View attachment 459692
> 
> ...


Ooh! Large flange hubs !


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## 531Man (28 Nov 2019)

Sterba said:


> I recently rebuilt a 1982 Raleigh Record Ace. It looked pretty much as it left the Nottingham factory, with some signs of wear and tear. I can attach some more photos if anyone is intersted in seeing how the job progressed?
> 
> In 1982, club cyclists were often rather snobby about Raleighs, since they were standard bikes, not made to measure for the owner. Raleigh had sought to address this image problem by acquiring Carlton, later bringing production of these hand made steeds into the main factory. The quality rubbed off on the mass-produced frames. More of them used 531, the lugwork became finer, the fluted tops to the seat stays were attached more carefully, Campag-like ends appeared. By 1982, the Nottingham-built Raleigh Record Ace was a fine road bike, well-equipped with Campag, Mavic, Weinmann and some in-house components, all in lightweight alloy.
> 
> ...


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## Illaveago (29 Nov 2019)

I like the hamster wheel rear drive set up !


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Nov 2019)

Sterba said:


> club cyclists were often rather snobby about Raleighs, since they were standard bikes, not made to measure for the owner.



Can't see why. I have two Raleighs with 531 frames and both were nicely made and the fact they ride well tells me the geometry chosen was sound. My Royal would be close to £1,000 in today's money (if you could still buy one that is!), so hardly a budget market, mass-produced product even if 90% of Raleighs were. As much as I admire the intricate lugwork and high quality paint finishes found on many vintage custom builds, I don't believe that they were markedly better than an off-the-peg quality Raleigh or Dawes, so long as the rider's proportions permit a comfortable fit on a standard frame. If you can't get comfortable on a factory-built bike, then a custom frame makes more sense, but for most riders a standard production bike offers better value.


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## Illaveago (30 Nov 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Can't see why. I have two Raleighs with 531 frames and both were nicely made and the fact they ride well tells me the geometry chosen was sound. My Royal would be close to £1,000 in today's money (if you could still buy one that is!), so hardly a budget market, mass-produced product even if 90% of Raleighs were. As much as I admire the intricate lugwork and high quality paint finishes found on many vintage custom builds, I don't believe that they were markedly better than an off-the-peg quality Raleigh or Dawes, so long as the rider's proportions permit a comfortable fit on a standard frame. If you can't get comfortable on a factory-built bike, then a custom frame makes more sense, but for most riders a standard production bike offers better value.


Yes . With their size the big cycle makers should have been able to have bulk bought components at a reduced price and passed some of that on to the customers.


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Nov 2019)

Illaveago said:


> Yes . With their size the big cycle makers should have been able to have bulk bought components at a reduced price and passed some of that on to the customers.



Not just components, also the build process. If you compare the two extremes, namely one-off made-to-measure with bikes being built to individual orders, and totally standardised mass-production using only semi-skilled robotised humans doing the same specific task repetitively, there is a massive difference in efficiency and unit cost.
The quality product lines of the big makers tended to go for a halfway house with the benefit of economies of scale, but assembly by one dedicated builder, which tended to make the factory work more rewarding, therefore encouraging pride in the job. All my quality framed Raleigh and Dawes look to have neat brazing and the paint finish has survived in good condition considering they are, on average, over 30 years old.
Those of use who appreciate quality hand-built bikes should consider ourselves fortunate that there is so much high quality old steel around currently for such low prices. Take advantage whilst this situation lasts.


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