# Addison lee told to use bus lanes!



## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

> *Addison Lee mini cab drivers told to use bus lanes from Monday. Previously only black cabs could use bus (and bike) lanes.*
> BikeBiz.com has discovered that private hire company Addison Lee of London is advising all of its drivers to start using bus lanes from tomorrow. Currently only black cabs are allowed to drive in bus lanes.


Read more >

I'm sure some of you will agree that this is a nightmare.. Addison lee are known to be some of the worst drivers on the roads of London.

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of their claim to use bus lanes, i'm having a hard time finding any official documentation about the laws.


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## ianrauk (15 Apr 2012)

God help us...!!!


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2012)

OMG..


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## musa (15 Apr 2012)

well, this will be the start of a disaster....and could lead to paths being created for other known companies. its bad enough with cabbies and _*MOTORBIKES *_


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## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

It looks like the law regarding who is allowed to use bus lanes or not is down to the Traffic Management Order for the specific section of road. It would seem that the TMO's only state taxi, and they don't actually define what a taxi is. So it is open to interpretation as to wether private hire vehicles are allowed to use london bus lanes.


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## gb155 (15 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> It looks like the law regarding who is allowed to use bus lanes or not is down to the Traffic Management Order for the specific section of road. It would seem that the TMO's only state taxi, and they don't actually define what a taxi is. So it is open to interpretation as to wether private hire vehicles are allowed to use london bus lanes.




A TRO that stipulated taxi only covers not allowing private hire in them as the law states what a taxi is( public transportation, able to pick up at th's side of the roads) sounds like this operator is trying to be smart?


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## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

gb155 said:


> A TRO that stipulated taxi only covers not allowing private hire in them as the law states what a taxi is( public transportation, able to pick up at th's side of the roads) sounds like this operator is trying to be smart?


The operator of private hire vehicles or the bus lanes?


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2012)

Here's their campaign...

http://www.lphca.co.uk/magazines/issue46/bus_lanes.pdf


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## gb155 (15 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> The operator of private hire vehicles or the bus lanes?




The private hire operator


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## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Here's their campaign...
> 
> http://www.lphca.co.uk/magazines/issue46/bus_lanes.pdf


Saw that as well, dates is 2009 though :O


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## gb155 (15 Apr 2012)

slowmotion said:


> Here's their campaign...
> 
> http://www.lphca.co.uk/magazines/issue46/bus_lanes.pdf




amazing, full of holes, glad to see the north/south doesnt extend to the "trade "


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## slowmotion (15 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> Saw that as well, dates is 2009 though :O


 Ooops! Missed that!


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## GfromHull (15 Apr 2012)

Is this some sort of legal loop hole they have picked up on? In regards to the definition of taxi v's private hire.


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## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

I've done a lot of reading in the past 3 hours. To me they are pushing there luck. I reckon i've found out enough to say that a private hire vehicle is not a taxi.... all shall be revealed in my blog tomorrow.


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## musa (15 Apr 2012)

do you know if this 'want' of there as got any further? like to MP's and TfL etc


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## BentMikey (15 Apr 2012)

Jeez, we're going to get a lot of tailgating and beeping, I think.


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## gaz (15 Apr 2012)

TFL have stated the following
Addison Lee drivers warned not to drive in London's bus lanes or face criminal prosecution


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## musa (15 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> TFL have stated the following
> Addison Lee drivers warned not to drive in London's bus lanes or face criminal prosecution


 

That cleared it all, best have your camera ready Gaz



> There are around 24,000 licenced taxis in London and over 60,000 licenced PHVs. Licenced taxis are allowed in many bus lanes._* Taxis can legally ply for hire on the street, often picking up passengers from pavements by bus lanes. By contrast, PHVs are not allowed to ply for hire on the street.*_ Allowing 60,000 additional vehicles into bus lanes would have a negative impact on bus journey times, potentially creating delays for millions of passengers.


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## Adasta (15 Apr 2012)

Wonder how long it'll be before they let cars in the bus lane.


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## deptfordmarmoset (15 Apr 2012)

So until this has been test cased in the courts are we going to see lots of altercations between Hackney Cabs and Addison Lee? Any black cab driver without a fare is simply going to block any AL in the bus lane, wouldn't they?


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## gb155 (16 Apr 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> So until this has been test cased in the courts are we going to see lots of altercations between Hackney Cabs and Addison Lee? Any black cab driver without a fare is simply going to block any AL in the bus lane, wouldn't they?


HC vs PH happens all the time, its a tribal war


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## spen666 (16 Apr 2012)

so, AL are encouraging their drivers to "break the law" - indeed even offering to indemnify them against the penalties imposed?

1. Are AL a fit and proper company to hold a private hire operators licence in the circumstances?
2. If using bus lane is a non endorsable offence, then why not instead charge with driving without due consideration for other road users (aka careless driving) when AL vehicles use bus lane. This is endorsable. No indemnity from AL can cover the points on licence.


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## gaz (16 Apr 2012)

I go into detail about why Addison Lee isn't allowed to use the bus lanes here > http://www.croydoncyclist.co.uk/addison-lee-vehicles-can-not-use-bus-lanes/


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## davefb (16 Apr 2012)

Puts the drivers in a bad position, whatever the opinion is of their driving. One assumes the 'base' will put pressure on them to be using buslanes, which is akin to expecting drivers to speed on the basis that addison lee will just pay their fines..
Ridiculous.


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## dawesome (16 Apr 2012)

London's biggest taxi company and Transport for London (TfL) are on collision course after the company's chairman instructed his 4,000 drivers to defy the law and use bus lanes.
Buses, taxis and motorbikes are the only vehicles allowed to use bus lanes, but John Griffin, the chairman of Addison Lee, has asked for a judicial review of the regulations, which he describes as unlawful.
Griffin wrote to his drivers last week and told them to drive in bus lanes pending the result of the judicial review. "Addison Lee believes that we cannot allow our customers to continue to be victims of this unfair and discriminatory treatment.
"As chairman, I can advise you that a lawful interpretation of the bus lane regulation entitles Addison Lee drivers with private hire identifiers to use all bus lanes in the same way as our competitors. Accordingly, you are fully entitled to use the bus lanes."
TfL hit back on Sunday, threatening to prosecute and withdraw licences from drivers who use bus lanes. "Under current regulations, driving a private hire vehicle (PHV) in a bus lane, during the hours when the bus lane is operative (and other than to pick up and set down passengers) is a criminal offence for which PHV drivers may be personally prosecuted," wrote John Mason, director of taxi and private hire for TfL in a statement.
Griffin told his drivers that he would indemnify them for any fines they might receive for following his instructions. But TfL said that this offered no protection from having their licences revoked.
Mason concluded: "Drivers who repeatedly contravene traffic regulations, including by intentionally driving in Bus Lanes, other than to pick up or set down passengers, may be considered unfit to hold a PHV driver's licence; and operators who encourage such conduct may be considered unfit to hold a PHV operator's licence."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/16/london-cab-firm-drivers-bus-lanes

Didn't Griffin refuse to pay to use Prescott's bus lan?


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## Flyingfox (16 Apr 2012)

This is a copy of the email sent to all Addison Lee drivers http://theandersonshelter.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/email-sent-to-all-addison-lee-drivers.html


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## deptfordmarmoset (16 Apr 2012)

The bike biz article quotes Griffin as saying AL will indemnify all drivers who get fines, etc, for using bus lanes. I know nothing about the law but this looks like a clear incitement to break the law to me.


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## dawesome (16 Apr 2012)

Back to all articles
*M4 Bus Lane Prosecution Dropped*

Oct 10, 2010
_*Addison Lee, Europe’s largest taxi firm received notice today that over 200 tickets and 130 court summonses against them for driving in the despised M4 bus lane have been dropped.*_
The CPS contacted Addison Lee after deciding that prosecutions were not in the public interest.

http://www.addisonlee.com/press/read/391


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## Jezston (16 Apr 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> The bike biz article quotes Griffin as saying AL will indemnify all drivers who get fines, etc, for using bus lanes. I know nothing about the law but this looks like a clear incitement to break the law to me.


 
Quite. Any way we can get a campaign running to threaten Addison Lee's license?

Any London commuters experience any AL bus lane action this morning?


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## jonny jeez (16 Apr 2012)

As a taxi (Hackney carriage) has a liscense to Ply for hire at the road side, it would be impractical for them to not have access to and across bus lanes. Mincab/private hire are not licensed to ply for hire and so have no business entering or crossing bus lanes.

The only reason they would want to is to save time and increase profits.

They knew the law when they started their business and no matter how big a company you are, you should not expect the law to "change" to suit your business plan.


Unless you are a petro-chemical or arms company of course, in which case, help yourself...murder, extort, occupy, steal...feel free, just don't use the bus lanes..that's the important thing


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## jonny jeez (16 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> Any London commuters experience any AL bus lane action this morning?


nope


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## ohnovino (16 Apr 2012)

The Guardian claims that black cab drivers are planning on taking photos of AL cars in the bus lanes as evidence. Maybe Gaz should tell them that road users with cameras are just looking for trouble.


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## martint235 (16 Apr 2012)

The news on BBC this morning seemed to suggest that AL have won the right for a judicial review on restrictive business practices contrary to European Law grounds. IIRC this will mean they are now legally allowed to use the bus lanes until the results of the review won't it?

I'm quite lucky in that the new commute doesn't have many bus lanes. Once I finally get access to the car park for my bike, I'll be able to commute and see how many AL I have to deal with. I'm guessing not many but you never know.


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## benb (16 Apr 2012)

dawesome said:


> "As chairman, I can advise you that a lawful interpretation of the bus lane regulation entitles Addison Lee drivers with private hire identifiers to use all bus lanes *in the same way as our competitors*. Accordingly, you are fully entitled to use the bus lanes."




In what alternative universe are black cabs competitors? Black cabs are generally hailed from the street, whereas AL and other private hire cabs must be booked by phone. If some PH cabs were allowed to use them, but AL not, he would have a point.


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## gaz (16 Apr 2012)

jonny jeez said:


> As a taxi (Hackney carriage) has a liscense to Ply for hire at the road side, it would be impractical for them to not have access to and across bus lanes. Mincab/private hire are not licensed to ply for hire and so have no business entering or crossing bus lanes.
> 
> The only reason they would want to is to save time and increase profits.
> 
> ...


Minicabs / private hire vehciels are allowed to stop in bus lanes to pick up or drop off passengers.


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## goo_mason (16 Apr 2012)

They'll all be wanting the right to drive in cycle lanes next. Oh, hang on...


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## captain nemo1701 (16 Apr 2012)

Didn't AL contribute to Boris' election campaign?. They are also a motorbike courier firm and now motorbikes are allowed in some of london's bus lanes. I see a correlation there....


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## Little yellow Brompton (16 Apr 2012)

goo_mason said:


> They'll all be wanting the right to drive in cycle lanes next. Oh, hang on...








Or just park on them?


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## captain nemo1701 (16 Apr 2012)

Just had a thought (lunchbreak ending, work drawing me back...aaargh!). As cyclists,why not email this dingbat who runs AL and state quite simply that if AL drivers cause an accident with you, you will be looking to sue him personally. Might work?.


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## musa (16 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> Minicabs / private hire vehciels are allowed to stop in bus lanes to pick up or drop off passengers.


 
Prior to booking, right?


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## jonny jeez (16 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> Minicabs / private hire vehciels are allowed to stop in bus lanes to pick up or drop off passengers.


Yeahbut this is only to literally pick up and drop off...not ply for hire. Taxis that can be hailed will inevitably cruise near the kerb and stop frequently.

Plus they are regarded as a form of public transport (which they are not) and as such are provided some privilages such as riding bus lanes (as well as parking in taxi ranks for free and having neat little green caravans stocked with plenitiful supplies of egg and chips, all over the place)

Whereas minicab's as just criminals people in cars and as such are afforded no such privileges.


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## compo (16 Apr 2012)

dawesome said:


> Back to all articles
> *M4 Bus Lane Prosecution Dropped*
> 
> Oct 10, 2010
> ...


 
For those who don’t know Griffin Lee, his firm, Addision Lee, contributed £150,000 in cash to the Tories, entitling him to buy his way onto the Leaders’ Group of donors and so meet Tories on a regular basis at drinky poos, lunches and dinners. Oh, and those who followed the general election run up might remember that Addison Lee cabs donated £4,000 worth of fares to the Tories. No surprise what can be arranged if the money is right.


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## gaz (16 Apr 2012)

jonny jeez said:


> Yeahbut this is only to literally pick up and drop off...not ply for hire.


yes


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## mr_cellophane (16 Apr 2012)

There will soon be no point is "Bus Lanes"
Buses, taxis, minicabs, cyclists, motorbikes, coaches and minibuses (which on the whole shouldn't be in them). Should just designate the "other" lane "Cars and lorries only"


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## davefb (16 Apr 2012)

compo said:


> For those who don’t know Griffin Lee, his firm, Addision Lee, contributed £150,000 in cash to the Tories, entitling him to buy his way onto the Leaders’ Group of donors and so meet Tories on a regular basis at drinky poos, lunches and dinners. Oh, and those who followed the general election run up might remember that Addison Lee cabs donated £4,000 worth of fares to the Tories. No surprise what can be arranged if the money is right.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2012/apr/16/minicab-tory-donor
250k here..
and I'm sure its got nothing to do with the m4 debacle ...


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## defy-one (17 Apr 2012)

I find the Addison Lee drivers better than black taxi brigade. I drive in and out of central most days!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martint235 (17 Apr 2012)

530kam said:


> I find the Addison Lee drivers better than black taxi brigade. I drive in and out of central most days!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I think you must be the only person to think so. You get some black cabs doing stupid things but with AL drivers it tends to be a case of just sit back and see what stupid thing they come up with next.


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## ianrauk (17 Apr 2012)

martint235 said:


> I think you must be the only person to think so. You get some black cabs doing stupid things but with AL drivers it tends to be a case of just sit back and see what stupid thing they come up with next.


 

Agree, Black cabs or ALee who are worse.. hmm let me think about that for a microsecond....ok ALee.
AL are some of the worst drivers that I have the misfortune to come across on my commute.


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## BentMikey (17 Apr 2012)

I'm astounded when an AL driver drives well, shocked even. Most of the time cabbies are pretty decent.


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## jonny jeez (17 Apr 2012)

I'm preparing myself to be shot down in flames here...and trust me I am (or maybe was) one of the biggests A.L haters around.

however...

I've been really watching...and I mean really watching all the A.L black MPV's that I see on my travels and I've reached an uncomfortable conclusion.

Since around October last year I've noticed that the majority of AL drivers are not as bad as I first thought. Admittedly some are atrocious but they don't actually seem to be as bad as I have given credit for

The thing that has skewed my perception is the fact that up untill November I just kind of assumed that all black MPV were AL cars.

The fact is, they are not and the vast majority of black MPV's that I see doing very stupid things are actually NOT A.L at all. There are literally masses of private hire companies that choose to look like A.L cars presumably because it reflects a corporate impression or some professionalism.

I suspect that these drivers are the worst of all in London, self regulated, self employed, unable or unwilling to work in any other medium and answerable to only themselves.

Before you shout me down (I know there are some really bad A.L drivers around and I've even taken steps to highlight this elsewhere) just try if for yourself, make a mental note of the number of black MPV's that you see acting like spanners then take a look at the back window, does it actually carry the A.L logo?

Give it a go, I'd be interested to see what you all think.


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## captain nemo1701 (17 Apr 2012)

AL motorbike couriers in action....in a cycle lane:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OlQJKKN5Zw


Just illustrates what a joke the blue paint is. Should be a mandatory lane.


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## Beebo (19 Apr 2012)

Now the Institute of Directors are getting involved according to the Evening Standard. They seem to be using the discrimination / protectionism arguement.

I pray this doesnt happen. The bus lanes currently offer a degree of protection as most buses dont go fast enough, for long enough, to bother overtaking cyslists. Cab and motorbikes on the otherhand squeeze past when ever possible.

"Simon Walker, director general of the Institute of Directors, said Addison Lee was right to challenge the ban on minicabs using London bus lanes as passengers were being “ripped off”.
Addison Lee sent a letter to its 3,500 drivers on Monday urging them to ignore the ban and drive in the lanes. Chairman John Griffin said allowing only licensed black taxis to use them was “unfair discrimination”.
Transport for London will next week seek a High Court injunction ordering the letter to be withdrawn.
Mr Walker said some of the institute’s 40,000 members had complained about the inability of private hire vehicles to use the lanes.
He told the Standard: “Anything that provides protectionism is a bad idea and will result in consumers losing out. A lot of our members use Addison Lee, as well as black cabs. It’s a service that’s been built up quite successfully. To hobble it, and other minicabs, seems unfair.”
He added: “We have got three hire car services and two of them are discriminated against because they cannot drive along the bus lanes. I think protectionism by metered taxis has helped push up prices.
“That’s always a problem when you have an inhibited ability to enter an industry — the consumer gets ripped off. Black cab prices are higher than they need to be.”
TfL insists its main priority is to keep bus lanes clear for the six million people who make bus journeys in London every day. They also argue that only black taxis can be hailed on the street and all are wheelchair accessible.
Cyclists claim roads will become less safe if the city’s 60,000 private hire vehicles are allowed to use the lanes."


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## Miquel In De Rain (19 Apr 2012)

530kam said:


> I find the Addison Lee drivers better than black taxi brigade. I drive in and out of central most days!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
I don't.


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## Andy84 (19 Apr 2012)

Not sure how old this is, but interesting choice of words from their chairman regarding cyclists!


https://twitter.com/#!/grahamlehr/status/192592466552172544/photo/1/large


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## Beebo (19 Apr 2012)

Andy84 said:


> Not sure how old this is, but interesting choice of words from their chairman regarding cyclists!
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/grahamlehr/status/192592466552172544/photo/1/large


 
it's shocking isnt it. Lets all get in our protected steel cages where we feel safe. It can't be my fault if I run over a granny on her bike. It shows a total disregard for anyone who isnt a motor vehicle.


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## BentMikey (19 Apr 2012)

Addison Lee video clips collected together....

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84A8677DE78BD0DB


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## LCpl Boiled Egg (20 Apr 2012)

BentMikey said:


> Addison Lee video clips collected together....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84A8677DE78BD0DB


 
An interesting collection of videos. I'm not sure these are Addison Lee drivers though, because according to this article none of their drivers have ever been "convicted of an offence while on duty", which must mean they are absolute perfect drivers at all times and never break the law.


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## Peowpeowpeowlasers (20 Apr 2012)

The guy created the company name so it appears at the top of the phone book:

http://www.addisonlee.com/discover/about/the-addison-lee-story

*Two can play at that game.* Maybe then we should ensure that the above videos appear at the top of the Google search index, you know, just for fairness.


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## mickle (20 Apr 2012)

From Bike Biz today:​*John Griffin, founder of Addison Lee, is making no friends in the cycling community. His latest rant is going viral.*
John Griffin, the Addison Lee boss at the centre of a bus lane storm in London, uses his editorial in the latest issue of his corporate magazine to take a pot-shot at cyclists, blaming them for any "accidents". Griffin recently told his 'self-employed' drivers to break the law and use bus lanes in London.
Currently only black taxi cabs - and cyclists and since January, motorcyclists - are allowed to use bus lanes. Griffin told his drivers he'd reimburse them for any fines they incurred when breaking the law.
AddLib magazine is handed out to Addison Lee customers and is available in the 4000 vehicles used by the company for 25,000 daily journeys in London.
Griffen wrote:​_"Green party candidates and others are up in arms about what they see as the murder of Cyclists on London Roads. There has, as we all know, been a tremendous upsurge in cycling and cycling shops._​_"This summer the roads will be thick with bicycles, These cyclists are throwing themselves onto some of the most congested spaces in the world. They leap onto a vehicle which offers them no protection except a padded plastic hat._​_"Should a motorist fail to observe a granny wobbling to avoid a pothole or a rain drain, then he is guilty of failing to anticipate that this was somebody on her maiden voyage into the abyss. The fact is he just didn't see her and however cautious, caring or alert he is, the influx of beginner cyclists is going to lead to an overall increase in accidents involving cyclists._​_"The rest of us occupying this roadspace have had to undego extensive training. We are sitting inside a protected space with impact bars and air bags and paying extortionate amounts of taxes on our vehicle purchase, parking, servicing, insurance and road tax. It is time for us to say to cyclists 'You want to join our gang, get trained and pay up'._​ 
_Road tax doesn't exist. It's car tax, a tax on cars and other vehicles, not a tax on roads or a fee to use them. Motorists do not pay directly for the roads. Roads are paid for via general and local taxation. In 1926, Winston Churchill started the process to abolish road tax. It was finally culled in 1937. Car tax is based on amount of CO2 emitted so, if a fee had to be paid, cyclists - who are sometimes branded as 'tax dodgers' - would pay the same as 'tax-dodgers' such as disabled drivers, police cars, the Royal family, and band A motorists, ie £0. Most cyclists are also car-owners, too, so pay VED. Many of those who believe road tax exists - such as John Griffin - want cyclists off the roads or, at least registered, but bicycle licensing is an expensive folly._

_Over on Road.cc, Simon Macmichael goes over Griffin's text and offers many more rebuttals._
_"We could comment upon his apparent belief that roads belong to motorists._
_"We could take him to task for his apparent victim-blaming of those who lose their lives while quite legally cycling on London’s roads._
_"We could consider that a motorist’s ‘protected space’ can lead them to forget that they are sitting inside a machine with the capability of easily inflicting death or serious injury on more vulnerable road users._
_"While he acknowledges that cycling in London is booming, he misses the point about where much of that growth comes from; it isn’t from ‘grannies’ taking to two wheels for the first time._
_"Instead, a lot of the rise in cycling is driven by middle-aged professionals such as lawyers, bankers and accountants who in some cases will be the people who decide which cab firm their company uses, or at least help influence that decision._
_Currently, for many companies and organisations, that firm will be Addison Lee._
_"Earlier this week, the company used its Twitter feed to proclaim proudly that its account customers had overwhelmingly backed its unilateral decision to illegally use London’s bus lanes; we wonder whether all of his customers will endorse his views on cycling, and those who have died while riding their bikes, once they learn of it?"_
_Dr. Robert Davis, Chair of the Road Danger Reduction Forum, said:_
_"This display of self-pitying bigotry and victim-blaming is, above all, the kind of incendiary message that exacerbates rule and law breaking behaviour by motorists._
_"And the bigotry is deep seated and needs to be properly confronted by those in power: step forward all those with responsibility for transport policy, as well as those charged with enforcing driver behaviour on London’s roads._
_"The “paying road tax” myth is inevitably associated with negative behaviour towards non-motorists._
_"The idea that drivers are “extensively trained” is laughable. So too is the implication that vehicle occupants have somehow fulfilled a greater responsibility than cyclists or pedestrians because they are in a crashworthy environment. These myths are simply part of the inversion of reality presented by Addison Lee’s Chairman – a world where drivers are the victims of cyclists, rather than the other way round._
_"Encouraging people to feel that they are good drivers because they have driven properly once for 25 minutes, and producing idiots by idiot-proofing the motor vehicle and highway environment, are part of the problem of danger on the road – and these examples of “road safety” culture are officially sanctioned."_


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## doctornige (20 Apr 2012)

Sorry. I posted the tax article in another thread. This forum has soooo many sections, I can't keep up. Anyway, that Addison Lee article on tax is ridiculous. I shouldn't worry though because if any of this got anywhere near parliament, I should imagine that someone might bother to read the existing legal and taxation structure.


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## zimzum42 (20 Apr 2012)

captain nemo1701 said:


> AL motorbike couriers in action....in a cycle lane:
> 
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OlQJKKN5Zw
> ...



Won't work - huge swathes of the blue lanes can be parked on after 7pm as per usual red route rules


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## growingvegetables (20 Apr 2012)

Just a wee diversion and an aside - is the guy a bully?

Not just of cyclists - here.


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## mickle (20 Apr 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> Just a wee diversion and an aside - is the guy a bully?
> 
> Not just of cyclists - here.


 
Good grief. What a complete twunt.


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## growingvegetables (20 Apr 2012)

Hmmm - the guy's hired a PR damage limitation "expert" http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/john-griffin/cycling-a-deadly-serious-issue_b_1440489.html

Sh!t - there's more grease there than in Sweaty Betty's chip frier down the road. He may be thick himself ....... but he knows who to hire.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (20 Apr 2012)

In light of the recent news, I hope all government departments and local authorities look at switching jobs away from them


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## Beebo (20 Apr 2012)

So this millionaire he wont pay his brother £15,000 in interest from his mother's inhertance because he doesnt approve of his life style, but he will pay all the driver's Bus Lane fines, very good. 

Yes. he's a bully, if you dont do what he wants he uses his money to bully people, whether it's his brother or TFL.


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## Smurfy (20 Apr 2012)

There's another article in todays Guardian



> Griffin's firm had donated £250,000 to the Conservative party and he had discussed the issue with the then transport secretary, Philip Hammond


 
I should also mention that private hire vehicles are also trying to get access to bus lanes in Leeds.


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## BSRU (20 Apr 2012)

YellowTim said:


> There's another article in todays Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> I should also mention that private hire vehicles are also trying to get access to bus lanes in Leeds.


He looks like he is one large glass of whiskey short of a heart attack.


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## deptfordmarmoset (20 Apr 2012)

Has anybody told him that Addison Lee pedicabs are already allowed in the bus lane?


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## fossyant (20 Apr 2012)

What an idiot. Lets see what damage his comments do eh.


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## gambatte (20 Apr 2012)

I'd like to buy him a drink....


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## growingvegetables (20 Apr 2012)

gambatte said:


> I'd like to buy him a drink....


of cyanide.


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## gambatte (21 Apr 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> of cyanide.


Nah, whisky'll do... just wanna test BRSUs theory


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## roirizla (21 Apr 2012)

He's now suggesting that taxing cyclists will cause less deaths:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/921...-cyclists-are-on-a-voyage-into-the-abyss.html.

Wonder if he also plays World of Warcraft.


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## stowie (21 Apr 2012)

I do wonder if he intended for a whole load of publicity or whether this is all a bit of a surprise. It has been reported now in most of the national online papers. Whether this is a "Ratner moment" for him remains to be seen - but if I owned a cab firm I wouldn't be looking to irritate cyclists, some of whom may have a say in transport contracts for major clients in the City.

He appears to want to challenge TfL on bus lanes in court, and I say let's help him. Every black taxi driver and cyclist with a camera should report any Addison Lee bus lane transgression, or indeed any other AL transgression, to road-safe and TfL.


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## bof (21 Apr 2012)

There's an e-Petition against A-L here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33116

Would producing hard to remove stickers marked "A Criminal is driving this" that could be placed on A-L cars in bus lanes be a legal protest?


Edit - I misread the closing date


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## Beebo (21 Apr 2012)

Out of interest has anyone actually seen an AL car in a bus lane yet? I looked all week and didnt see one.


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## ManiaMuse (21 Apr 2012)

I saw an AL car yesterday...

...not using the bus lane even though traffic was jammed and the bus lane was completely clear.


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## gaz (21 Apr 2012)

bof said:


> There's an e-Petition against A-L here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33116 - *the closing date seems misleading* as it is getting signatures at a rate of knots. About 100 in the ten minutes since I read about and signed.
> 
> Would producing hard to remove stickers marked "A Criminal is driving this" that could be placed on A-L cars in bus lanes be a legal protest?


That is how the e-petition system works. If you don't get 100,000 signatures in a year then it is locked/closed



Beebo said:


> Out of interest has anyone actually seen an AL car in a bus lane yet? I looked all week and didnt see one.


Nope, i've seen plenty not using the bus lane.


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## Little yellow Brompton (21 Apr 2012)

gaz said:


> That is how the e-petition system works. If you don't get 100,000 signatures in a year then it is locked/closed
> 
> 
> Nope, i've seen plenty not using the bus lane.


 
There are two things that will stop them.
Will their SatNav insructions work taking into account bus lanes?
The first "accident" that occurs in a bus lane. I wonder who in AL will do the gaol time or licence suspension for the driver?


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## AnotherEye (21 Apr 2012)

There is a protest outside the AL offices at 18.00 on Monday:
35-37 William Road, NW1 3ER
https://www.facebook.com/events/392495397451954/


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

I have to thank John Griffin in one way though. Without him I would probably not have found Hailocab.com and their app for calling a black cab in London and paying for it from your phone. Even has a nifty display of where the cab coming to pick you up currently is.


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

Uncle Mort said:


> He's getting some stick in the Independent too.


 
One curious thing in the reporting. All the articles make a point of mentioning his donation to the Tory Party and Ken Livingstone is reported in the Independent as saying Boris got a £25k donation for his previous election campaign. I am struggling to see the relevance to the story other than as reporters getting their own back for Levenson. After all Boris' TfL was pretty quick off the mark in responding very robustly to the suggestion AL cars should drive in the bus lanes and has he has issued a statement condemning yesterday's comments as "irresponsible and unacceptable". And now Unite have jumped on the bandwagon too.


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## Jezston (21 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> One curious thing in the reporting. All the articles make a point of mentioning his donation to the Tory Party and Ken Livingstone is reported in the Independent as saying Boris got a £25k donation for his previous election campaign. I am struggling to see the relevance to the story


 
Probably more to do with this: http://www.addisonlee.com/press/read/391

And the fact that Boris isn't actually doing anything about it, just talking the talk.


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## RecordAceFromNew (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> And the fact that Boris isn't actually doing anything about it, just talking the talk.


 
Really? Taking those plonkers to court is just talk?


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## Jezston (21 Apr 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> Really? Taking those plonkers to court is just talk?


 
That's not Boris.

All I've seen so far from him is his reponse to AL's comments about cyclists. Has Boris said anything about them using the bus lanes?


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## RecordAceFromNew (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> That's not Boris.


 
Ok. So the fact that Boris chairs Tfl, appoints all its directors, and Tfl takes AL to court is not enough.

Do you think he should personally take AL to court?


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## Jezston (21 Apr 2012)

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue with me about.

Boris has said nothing to condemn what AL are doing.

TFL are only taking AL to court to tell them to withdraw their letter ordering staff to use the bus lanes.

TFL in their statements are only threatening individual drivers rather than AL itself.

And the CPS declined to prosecute the tens of thousands in fines that AL had accrued using the M4 bus lanes and refused to pay.

The fact that AL has given the governing party a quarter of a million quid over the last few years is relevant.


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> That's not Boris.
> 
> All I've seen so far from him is his reponse to AL's comments about cyclists. Has Boris said anything about them using the bus lanes?


 
S'funny, If TfL do something wrong, its Boris' fault. If they do something right its nothing to do with Boris. Can't have it both ways so which is it to be?


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## Jezston (21 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> S'funny, If TfL do something wrong, its Boris' fault. If they do something right its nothing to do with Boris. Can't have it both ways so which is it to be?


 
I'm not sure where you are coming from here as your response appears to have nothing to do with what I said.

From what I understand, the mayor is in charge of TFL, but they are to a degree less autonomous and won't just do what he says. Hence stuff in the past about Boris wanting something for cyclists and TFL saying no. Whether that was all fluff on Boris' part is another issue.

Boris AFAIK has said nothing other than in response to AL's comments about cyclists.

The case here is TFL are taking AL to court to ask them to withdraw a letter - they aren't suing them or threatening to revoke their licence, just saying "you take that back!". The argument at hand is whether AL having donated 250k to the Conservatives is relevant. Clearly it's worth stating considering their seemingly soft treatment.


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to argue with me about.
> 
> Boris has said nothing to condemn what AL are doing.
> 
> ...


 
A spokesman for the London Mayor said the comments were “unacceptable,” insisting no funds have been received for the campaign from Mr Griffin.
“John Griffin’s actions are irresponsible and unacceptable, and Boris Johnson does not agree with his comments on cycling.”
http://www.london24.com/news/politi...on_lee_boss_s_anti_cyclist_outburst_1_1355907

And if the AL donation is relevant, what about the Unite donation and their wading in on the issue on behalf of Ken and the Labour party?


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## RecordAceFromNew (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to argue with me about.
> 
> *Boris has said nothing to condemn what AL are doing.*
> 
> ...


 
The proof ehhh counter-proof actually, of your thesis, is here.


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> I'm not sure where you are coming from here as your response appears to have nothing to do with what I said.


 
You said the actions of TfL against Addison Lee have nothing to do with Boris. Yet Boris is blamed for many of the things TfL do especially wrt cyclists. Either he is or he isn't responsible for what TfL does and I'm just trying to determine which you think it is.


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## Jezston (21 Apr 2012)

Ah, didn't see all of Boris' statement on that. That is slightly reassuring. 

Can we calm down on the internet argument point scoring nitpickiness though, please?


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## Red Light (21 Apr 2012)

RecordAceFromNew said:


> The proof ehhh counter-proof actually, of your thesis, is here.


 
I find it almost as odious as John Griffin that Ken and Unite should be using this and cyclists as a political football in their Mayoral election campaign. As much as I dislike Addison Lee, Unite, as the union of black cab and London bus drivers, clearly has a very strong conflict of interest in this and should not be trying to manipulate the political process directly and through a mayoral candidate they are funding.


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## BrazingSaddles (22 Apr 2012)

Do you think having the surname of Griffin results in that person being a tw*t? (Nick, John...) (Sincere apologies for any nice Griffin's out there!!)


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## Red Light (22 Apr 2012)

[QUOTE 1818146, member: 1314"]Of course they should be. Unite ARE a political organisation. They're a trade union. It is their responsibility to try and direct the political process.[/quote]

So is their position as the largest donor to the Labour Party to try and buy influence and direct them as well?


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## classic33 (22 Apr 2012)

Well with local elections coming up in parts of the country next month. Why not ask everyone who comes to your door, asking for your support if they will be willing to support yours.

It may start with one company, in one part of the country. But how long before this is taken as a test case & we get private hire vehicle owners/operators driving in bus lanes when ever & where ever they please. Just to save a few seconds.

Interesting to note that he is instructing his drivers to use their cameras. Were these fitted before this started or after.


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## subaqua (23 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> So is their position as the largest donor to the Labour Party to try and buy influence and direct them as well?


 
i can opt out of Unites political levy, which i have. can i ask warburtons to not pay the small percentage they donated to the Tories of the loaf i purchased ?


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## Red Light (23 Apr 2012)

subaqua said:


> i can opt out of Unites political levy, which i have. can i ask warburtons to not pay the small percentage they donated to the Tories of the loaf i purchased ?


 
You can choose not to buy Warburton's products. Many people do not have a choice about not joining Unite.


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## bof (23 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> You can choose not to buy Warburton's products. Many people do not have a choice about not joining Unite.


Really? The Closed Shop is long abolished.


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## subaqua (23 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> You can choose not to buy Warburton's products. Many people do not have a choice about not joining Unite.


 
really? what employers are these?


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## subaqua (23 Apr 2012)

Red Light said:


> You can choose not to buy Warburton's products. Many people do not have a choice about not joining Unite.


 
can still opt out of the levy


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## Red Light (23 Apr 2012)

bof said:


> Really? The Closed Shop is long abolished.


 
The closed shop yes, but other arrangements still go on and peer pressure still plays a strong part. e.g. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/24/social-work-college-launch-postponed


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## mickle (23 Apr 2012)

Addison Lee's App - which generated £23 million in fares last year - is taking an enormous pounding as it's being flooded it with negative reviews. Enough negatives and it'll be automatically deleted.

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/addyleeapp/

Tee hee.


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## mickle (23 Apr 2012)

[QUOTE 1819297, member: 45"]And if one wanted to add a review, how would one go about it?[/quote]
Download the App to your smartphone, write a review and then, I suppose, delete the App.


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## AnotherEye (23 Apr 2012)

I've just sent this email:
Dear John Griffin,
I have cycled in London for the last 35 years and am, like you, concerned with the safety of all road users. Whilst we may not agree on all things I believe there is ground on which we can make common cause.
I think that we agree that there careless road users as well as good road users within all categories, on this occasion I am specifically concerned with cyclists and motorists.
Your influence is far greater than mine so I am inviting you to use it in order to help reduce deaths and injuries on London's roads. Would you be willing to publicise the below in order to improve the standard of cycling and motoring in our city?

There is excellent advise to drivers here:
What drivers can do to be more cyclist aware
http://www.carbuzz.co.uk/blog/Drivers-more-cyclist-aware

Whilst the following is addressed to cyclists it would be advantageous for motorists to read it as well so as to understand the behaviour of trained and experienced cyclists:
http://www.roadusers.net/motoristsandcyclists.html

yours sincerely
Gerry Platt


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## jmaccyd (23 Apr 2012)

I do wonder what will happen if and when another road user dies hit in a bus lane by an AL minicab using the lane il-legally. Like all of his ilk, this guy will no doubt walk away from the driver and hang him or her out to dry. I remember the bus driver who killed a cyclist on Blackfriars bridge a few years ago, who had reported to management that he was struggling on the route, and was told to 'get on with it', and was sent to prison whilst the managers carried on regardless. If you read this and drive an AL vehicle in a bus lane and something happens, this GUY will not be standing behind you. Oh, by the way any difference between il-legal use of bus lanes by AL vehicles, and the il-legal use of the Bloombsbury Way contra-flow bus lane by tens of thousands of cyclists every week? Because if you think the former is wrong then so is the later!


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## Andy84 (23 Apr 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...pe-dangerous-statement.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Daily Mail's (suprising) view


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## Dan B (23 Apr 2012)

jmaccyd said:


> Oh, by the way any difference between il-legal use of bus lanes by AL vehicles, and the il-legal use of the Bloombsbury Way contra-flow bus lane by tens of thousands of cyclists every week?


Yes. 


> Because if you think the former is wrong then so is the later!


No.

Hope that clarifies matters


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## s_casey99 (23 Apr 2012)

I've just sent John Griffin this..

Dear Mr Griffin,
I have been a customer of Addison Lee for many years now and I have always been very happy with the service the company has provided me with. I even used the company to transport all of my wedding guests to my wedding reception in 2010.
I have also been incredibly impressed with the conduct of your drivers with regard to my one year old daughter and her safety in the cars.
In the past I have recommended Addison Lee to all of my friends and family and I received positive feedback from them also.

After reading what you said last week with regard to cyclists (of which I am one) and bus lanes then I have to admit that I am disgusted with your comments. They were irresponsible and quite frankly dangerous.

You said 
_“__This summer the roads will be thick with bicycles, these cyclists are throwing themselves on to some of the most congested spaces in the world.” _

We are not“throwing” ourselves onto the roads. We are using them just as motorists are and let me remind you that it was cyclists who used the roads first. Cyclists were the first group in a generation to use roads and were the first to push for high-quality sealed surfaces and were the first to lobby for national funding and leadership for roads. Without cyclists, motorists wouldn't have hit the ground running when it came to places to drive their new form of transport.

_“They leap on to a vehicle which offers them no protection except a padded plastic hat. Should a motorist fail to observe a granny wobbling to avoid a pothole or a brain drain, then he is guilty of failing to anticipate that this was somebody on her maiden voyage into the abyss.”_

Can I point out rule 213 in the Highway Code?

“Cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may need to make.”

Quite frankly it’s the driver’s responsibility. Drivers kill cyclists. That’s why they should be asked to give them plenty of room.
How many drivers were killed last year due to cyclists on the road?
Zero.

_“The fact is he just didn't see her and however cautious, caring or alert he is, the influx of beginner cyclists is going to lead to an overall increase in accidents involving cyclists.”_

Department for Transport figures from 2009 showed that police found drivers solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all road accidents, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.

You say that
_“The rest of us occupying this road space have had to undergo extensive training. We are sitting inside a protected space with impact bars and air bags and paying extortionate amounts of taxes on our vehicle purchase, parking, servicing, insurance and *road tax*, It is time for us to say to cyclists, 'You want to join our gang, get trained and pay up”_

Road Tax?
Really?

I pay road tax because I am a taxpayer in this country. Motorists pay a vehicle excise duty which is based on emissions. If cyclists WERE liable for it we would pay £0. It’s quite simple, how you haven’t yet managed to grasp this simple piece of legislation baffles me.

I’m surprised at your apparent lack of knowledge on this subject and am slightly worried at your obvious lack of understanding of the Highway Code.

Motor vehicle users must undergo thorough training because due to cases of poor driving. Hundreds of thousands of people are killed and injured each year. Cyclists do not represent such a risk and, more to the point, are, by choosing to cycle, reducing congestion and the burden of public health linked to physical inactivity and air pollution.

You have also said to your drivers that they should use bus lanes making it more dangerous on the roads for cyclists now.
Thanks.
We now don’t know if an Addison Lee vehicle will come on to a bus lane or not.

The reason“Black Cabs” are allowed to use the bus lanes is simply that they ply for business on the roads unlike minicabs. At some point they need to get to a pavement for their trade.


I see what you are doing here, trying to make the Addison Lee customer feel as though you want them to get to their destination quicker and doing something about it in the process. I think this is a cheap publicity stunt which will cost you in the long run. 
Your comments were irresponsible to say the least and as I’ve said before, dangerous.

I for one will never use Addison Lee again and I’ve spoken to a lot of my cyclist friends who won’t also.
You obviously haven’t factored in that cyclists also use Addison Lee but after what you have said to make the roads a more dangerous place for us I imagine that they won’t be using Addison Lee anymore.

I will tell all of those friends I recommended Addison Lee to and inform them of your comments.

Also, just to add, if I’m injured in a collision with an Addison Lee driver that isn’t my fault then I will hold you personally responsible.

Regards,
Steve Casey


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## Sore Thumb (23 Apr 2012)

I have just found a dedicated "Official Boycott Addison Lee Campaign" website.

http://boycottaddisonlee.wordpress.com/

It looks like they are trying to persuade Barclay's Bank to drop their contact with AL.


From the Boycott web site

"Please contact Barclays asking them:
Is Barclays lending money to AddisonLee so that they can encourage law breaking and increased danger on our roads?
Why Barclays?
1. Barclays has committed a lot of money to the Barclays cycle hire scheme.
2. Barclays is funding Addison Lee to help it expand in the run up to the Olympics.
3. Barclays is a major Addison Lee customer.
Please contact Barclays asking them:
Is Barclays lending money to AddisonLee so that they can encourage law breaking and increased danger on our roads?
Email: customer.relations@barclays.co.uk
Twitter @Barclays @barclaysonline

Please email us any response you get boycottaddisonlee@gmail.com

also the boycott facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/BoycottAddisonLee


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## Red Light (23 Apr 2012)

jmaccyd said:


> I remember the bus driver who killed a cyclist on Blackfriars bridge a few years ago, who had reported to management that he was struggling on the route, and was told to 'get on with it', and was sent to prison whilst the managers carried on regardless.


 
If that was the Vicki McCreery death then I remember a police officer involved with the case telling me that the driver had pleaded guilty so the prosecution were unable to show the in-cab video evidence. That showed he had had a clear view of her for a full 23 seconds before he hit and killed her but he was too busy having an argument with someone to actually bother looking where he was going. Not the actions of someone "struggling on the route".


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Apr 2012)

In Glasgow the private hire cars are permitted in bus lanes and have been for a good number of years now. I can't say I've ever had particular problems with them or the black cabs, in or out of bus lanes. They generally give a decent overtake whereas the really dangerous drivers are those ordinary motorists & motorcyclists who aren't supposed to use the lane; they skim past at high speed as they try to get beyond the lane before they get caught.

In the past few days the city council has finally begun camera enforcement of the lanes with a view to issuing fixed penalties to offenders. See http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/GettingAround/Roads/buslaneenforcement.htm

London may be a different kettle of fish so I'm not suggesting you don't oppose Mr Griffin's proposal.


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## Hawk (25 Apr 2012)

glasgowcyclist said:


> In Glasgow the private hire cars are permitted in bus lanes and have been for a good number of years now. I can't say I've ever had particular problems with them or the black cabs, in or out of bus lanes. They generally give a decent overtake whereas the really dangerous drivers are those ordinary motorists & motorcyclists who aren't supposed to use the lane; they skim past at high speed as they try to get beyond the lane before they get caught.
> 
> In the past few days the city council has finally begun camera enforcement of the lanes with a view to issuing fixed penalties to offenders. See http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/GettingAround/Roads/buslaneenforcement.htm
> 
> London may be a different kettle of fish so I'm not suggesting you don't oppose Mr Griffin's proposal.


 
Yeah, really good to see GCC taking up this issue. Mostly a problem in the city centre where cars want to dash over, for example, the bridge over Queen Street Station.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Apr 2012)

Hawk said:


> Yeah, really good to see GCC taking up this issue.


 
I'm curious as to where these cameras are located since I've seen nothing that looks like a camera near the lanes. Unless they're relying on stills captured from bus cameras or are planning to deploy mobile camera units to the worst affeceted lanes.

The worst ones I know of are the bus gate at Govan Road (towards STV studios) and the bus lane over the squinty bridge.


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## musa (25 Apr 2012)

[QUOTE 1822511, member: 45"]We've got a new bus lane camera in Brum. It sticks out the top of a Smart car.[/quote]

We've had them for ages...they use them for clamping cars too


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## Jezston (25 Apr 2012)

[QUOTE 1822511, member: 45"]We've got a new bus lane camera in Brum. It sticks out the top of a Smart car.[/quote]

Parked in a bus lane?


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## Hawk (25 Apr 2012)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm curious as to where these cameras are located since I've seen nothing that looks like a camera near the lanes. Unless they're relying on stills captured from bus cameras or are planning to deploy mobile camera units to the worst affeceted lanes.
> 
> The worst ones I know of are the bus gate at Govan Road (towards STV studios) and the bus lane over the squinty bridge.


 
They are being put up at the moment.

There is one already up between the junction of Cathedral street and Queen Street and the Sainsbury's at Buchanan Galleries.

There is one on Maryhill road where the bus lane begins between Canniesburn Toll and St Mary's Primary school (just where Summerston starts), near the bank on Maryhill road.

It seems that some First buses are carrying CCTV with number plate recognition too?


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## gaz (25 Apr 2012)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I'm curious as to where these cameras are located since I've seen nothing that looks like a camera near the lanes. Unless they're relying on stills captured from bus cameras or are planning to deploy mobile camera units to the worst affeceted lanes.
> 
> The worst ones I know of are the bus gate at Govan Road (towards STV studios) and the bus lane over the squinty bridge.


In London they use CCTV style cameras to capture video, they send you a copy of the video.


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## subaqua (25 Apr 2012)

Jezston said:


> Parked in a bus lane?


 thats Waltham Forest and Newham that do that. They don't like it when you take pictures of them breaking the law to catch people breaking the law and then send them to Chief Execs


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## stowie (25 Apr 2012)

subaqua said:


> thats Waltham Forest and Newham that do that. They don't like it when you take pictures of them breaking the law to catch people breaking the law and then send them to Chief Execs


 
I like it when they park on Forest road by Blackhorse road junction. Just after the lights as two lanes merge into one, it is slightly uphill and then they park in the cycle lane so you need to go out into the melee to get past. True genius.


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## subaqua (25 Apr 2012)

take the pics and send em to the chief exec and the parking dept.


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