# Disc brakes on road bikes



## Accy cyclist (18 Oct 2014)

I went to a local bike shop the other day just browsing around. Naturally the owner tried to talk me into buying one of the end of season road bikes on sale. To cut a long story short he showed me the catalogues for next years bikes, Quite a few Williers had disc brakes fitted. He said that eventually disc brakes will be accepted in competitions and "they are the way forward"! Is this so, and are disc brakes far better than the traditional method?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (18 Oct 2014)

Yes


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## ColinJ (18 Oct 2014)

We don't need more powerful brakes because conventional brakes are already perfectly capable of locking wheels but disk brakes should work better in the wet, and will fix the problem of rim wear.


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## downfader (18 Oct 2014)

Colin is right.

The benefit of discs are also that the ceramic pads can last ages (got a set to last over a year). 

However I dont see them becoming a competition regular - the UCI has dithered on this for a very long time already, chances are they'll want EVERYONE in a competition to have the same brake. The last thing you want is for a competitor upfront to brake on discs and the rider behind to catch up - rim pads and discs have different bedding in times upon pulling the lever - the disc tends to be a bit more direct, rims have a little deceleration as the pads slide before locking. Especially in the wet


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## smokeysmoo (18 Oct 2014)

ColinJ said:


> We don't need more powerful brakes because conventional brakes are already perfectly capable of locking wheels but disk brakes should work better in the wet, and will fix the problem of rim wear.


^ this is my opinion too.

If you commute in all weathers then discs are definitely beneficial in terms of wear, just ask @ianrauk

However, I don't commute so excessive wear has never been am issue for me, and personally I don't like the look of discs on a road bike.

Horses for courses and all that innit


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## Accy cyclist (18 Oct 2014)

Would it be possible to fit disk brakes on a road bike that has conventional brakes? If so would it be expensive and difficult?


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## ianrauk (18 Oct 2014)

Accy cyclist said:


> Would it be possible to fit disk brakes on a road bike that has conventional brakes? If so would it be expensive and difficult?




Unless the frame has disc brake mounts, then no.


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## the_mikey (18 Oct 2014)

I suppose it has to be proven in road racing, I don't relish the prospect of dealing with bent or warped rotors but the braking generally "should" be better. 




Accy cyclist said:


> Would it be possible to fit disk brakes on a road bike that has conventional brakes? If so would it be expensive and difficult?



You'd need new forks and the option to include it already on the frame.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2014)

downfader said:


> Colin is right.
> 
> The benefit of discs are also that the ceramic pads can last ages (got a set to last over a year).
> 
> However I dont see them becoming a competition regular - the UCI has dithered on this for a very long time already, chances are they'll want EVERYONE in a competition to have the same brake. The last thing you want is for a competitor upfront to brake on discs and the rider behind to catch up - rim pads and discs have different bedding in times upon pulling the lever - the disc tends to be a bit more direct, rims have a little deceleration as the pads slide before locking. Especially in the wet


If a rim brake can lock the wheel with it's power what would be the problem with some riders using discs while others used rim brakes? When discs first appeared on GP motorcycles their take up was not instantly universal and it caused no problems. People miss the point of powerful brakes, their main benefit is to allow you to apply the same force with a much lighter touch giving far better feedback and making it easier to adjust the pressure you are applying. I rarely if ever lock the wheels on my car and haven't done for years. Back in the days of drum brakes it was a regular thing to hear someones tyres screeching because to get any real stopping power into them you had to press so hard you lost all sense of feel.

Rim brakes should have been consigned to the Ark years ago.


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## mustang1 (18 Oct 2014)

I recently bought a MTB with hydro disks.

Yes, I think disks will be better on road bikes too.


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## MacB (18 Oct 2014)

it's also a money progress thing so expect it to happen


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## cyberknight (18 Oct 2014)

ianrauk said:


> Unless the frame has disc brake mounts, then no.


And most disc brake bikes have a 135 mm rear hub , not 130 mm like a standard road spacing .Yes i know there are a few 130 mm wheels but most afaik are the wider standard .


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## nappadang (18 Oct 2014)

Surely disc brakes will be heavier?


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## MacB (18 Oct 2014)

nappadang said:


> Surely disc brakes will be heavier?



I was under the impression that they already had to put weights inside frames to bring them up to race legal weights. If that's correct then the weight wouldn't be a factor.


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

1 bikes has disc brakes the other has rim brakes. Prefer disc as an old bike with disc front and rim brake on the back wore out 4 rims albeit over 12 years. but the bike with rim brakes front and rear has ceramic pads with a type of ceramic rim. It is not ceramic coated but the ceramic bit is fired at/into the metal?
Either way the seller had done a 20,000 km cycle ride and the rims appear to have no wear at all. I am not sure but I think he said the brake pads are original as well.
And the Brooks saddle is soo broke in!


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## ColinJ (18 Oct 2014)

MacB said:


> I was under the impression that they already had to put weights inside frames to bring them up to race legal weights. If that's correct then the weight wouldn't be a factor.


They do. I just read that Russell Downing had 9 pound coins wrapped up and inserted in his bike's seat tube. He found them a few years later, having forgotten they were there! His brother Dean had a few links of chain in the seat post to make the bike up to the 6.8 kg UCI limit.


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

The forks have to be strengthend and it is supposed to be very hard on the wrists/hands if there is no front suspension. That's according to Thorn.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2014)

brand said:


> The forks have to be strengthend and it is supposed to be very hard on the wrists/hands if there is no front suspension. That's according to Thorn.


Have you ever seen what Thorn consider to be a bike?


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Have you ever seen what Thorn consider to be a bike?


You mean like my Thorn Raven Enduro?
Which I would happily call a bike. What would you call it? A helicopter!!


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## upandover (18 Oct 2014)

I have a new Synapse 105 disc, and I love it. It's my commuter in all weather, and the disc break feel great. Probably not necc much of the time, but the do work just as well in the wet and mud, (and Horse manure, given some of my commute is on country lanes!) Whether they're better or not, I do like them.


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

upandover said:


> I have a new Synapse 105 disc, and I love it. It's my commuter in all weather, and the disc break feel great. Probably not necc much of the time, but the do work just as well in the wet and mud, (and Horse manure, given some of my commute is on country lanes!) Whether they're better or not, I do like them.


So no front suspension. Now the claim by Thorn is that it is hard on the hands/wrists?? It should be remembered that they specialise in tourers so possibly different over long distances??


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## Banjo (18 Oct 2014)

My Trek hybrid commuter/utility bike has mechanical discs and I have been so impressed over the last 5 years with it that my new road bike (picked up this week) is a Cannondale Synapse disc.105.

I hate the grinding noise you get when conventional rims pick up mud and grit .the discs seem virtually unaffected by weather and the pads go on for ages

Sure you can lock the wheel with any brake system but with discs the braking feels smoother and more controlled to me.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2014)

brand said:


> You mean like my Thorn Raven Enduro?
> Which I would happily call a bike. What would you call it? A helicopter!!


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## Banjo (18 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> View attachment 59428


 Horses for courses. If I was planning a trek around the world crossing places with no real roads then the Thorn would be ideal. look a bit odd on a club sunday morning run though.


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## marzjennings (18 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> View attachment 59428


 Is there a prize for building the worlds ugliest bike, 'cos that may be a winner.


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## MacB (18 Oct 2014)

marzjennings said:


> Is there a prize for building the worlds ugliest bike, 'cos that may be a winner.



I believe that was an experimental, but ridden, bike put together by Sheldon Brown - if not he certainly did one with multi handlebars etc


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## BSRU (18 Oct 2014)

A mechanic from one of the big tour teams made a salient point that it is not very desirable to have spinning metal rotors(blades) because they'll cause real serious carnage in a crash(very common in racing).


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> View attachment 59428


I hope that's not meant to be Thorn Raven Enduro. Because it isn't. Its bike for somebody who is a little indecisive.


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## brand (18 Oct 2014)

Banjo said:


> Horses for courses. If I was planning a trek around the world crossing places with no real roads then the Thorn would be ideal. look a bit odd on a club sunday morning run though.


The Raven Enduro is a Mountain bike. I also have a Travelmaster ALU 26 which is proper touring bike. That's the one with ceramic rims which don't wear down....at least not in my lifetime!


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2014)

BSRU said:


> A mechanic from one of the big tour teams made a salient point that it is not very desirable to have spinning metal rotors(blades) because they'll cause real serious carnage in a crash(very common in racing).


I wonder why they allow them on racing motorcycles then, which can go barrelling down the road at 200 mph? Nobody ever wanted chainrings banned on bikes because the teeth might slice someone's leg off.


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## BSRU (18 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> I wonder why they allow them on racing motorcycles then, which can go barrelling down the road at 200 mph? Nobody ever wanted chainrings banned on bikes because the teeth might slice someone's leg off.


In general the crashes in motorbike races are different to crashes in bicycle racing.
Also with chain rings you tend not to keep peddling when your about to crash into someone and normally the big ring teeth have a chain on them.


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## Globalti (18 Oct 2014)

The story about riders being injured by discs in a crash is twaddle. Mountain bikers crash a hell of a lot more than roadies and I've never heard of anyone being injured by a spinning disc. I've heard of people burning themselves and stupidly sticking a finger in a disc but never being hurt by one in a crash.


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## ColinJ (18 Oct 2014)

Globalti said:


> The story about riders being injured by discs in a crash is twaddle. Mountain bikers crash a hell of a lot more than roadies and I've never heard of anyone being injured by a spinning disc. I've heard of people *burning themselves* and stupidly sticking a finger in a disc but never being hurt by one in a crash.


I only made that mistake once! (I branded my leg with a hot rotor after a big descent.)


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## Smokin Joe (18 Oct 2014)

BSRU said:


> In general the crashes in motorbike races are different to crashes in bicycle racing.
> Also with chain rings you tend not to keep peddling when your about to crash into someone and normally the big ring teeth have a chain on them.


Yeah, they happen at higher speeds and the whole bike often ends up on top of the rider.


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## Peteaud (18 Oct 2014)

http://road.cc/content/news/119433-...-disc-brakes-coming-2016-says-wfsgis-bike-man

I have the synapse disc. Last weekend went for a 30mile ride around Devon back lanes, very gloopy, grit and not good for rims. The discs are so cheap to replace i really dont care about the crud.


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## Low Roller (18 Oct 2014)

Earlier this year went on my first tour on a new Dawes Ultra Galaxy with Shimano discs, about 500 miles. First time i have ever used a bike with discs. They were set up by the LBS before I left.

I hate them.

I spend a large part of the trip f*rting and faffing about trying to get them to work properly. Every downhill I was well and truly juddered.

I really don't know why I just didn't by another Super Galaxy with perfectly good cantilever brakes and saved myself a load of money.


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## Flying Dodo (19 Oct 2014)

Accy cyclist said:


> Would it be possible to fit disk brakes on a road bike that has conventional brakes? If so would it be expensive and difficult?



You could just have them at the front by fitting a disc compatible fork.


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## Flick of the Elbow (19 Oct 2014)

Ive been riding a couple of road bikes with discs for a number of years, a steel forked Croix de Fer and a carbon forked Landescape tandem. Neither with front suspension. Both are very comfortable indeed. Both have Avid BB7's which so long as they are set up right in the first place have been trouble free and require very little in the way of ongoing adjustment and way, way less than cantilevers..


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## brand (19 Oct 2014)

Peteaud said:


> http://road.cc/content/news/119433-...-disc-brakes-coming-2016-says-wfsgis-bike-man
> 
> I have the synapse disc. Last weekend went for a 30mile ride around Devon back lanes, very gloopy, grit and not good for rims. The discs are so cheap to replace i really dont care about the crud.


Couldn't get a replacement disc once, had to buy a complete brake? Anyone want disc brake without a disc?


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## brand (19 Oct 2014)

Low Roller said:


> Earlier this year went on my first tour on a new Dawes Ultra Galaxy with Shimano discs, about 500 miles. First time i have ever used a bike with discs. They were set up by the LBS before I left.
> 
> I hate them.
> 
> ...


What's to set up? Never ever set up anything they just work. 
Discs are an investment they save you money in the long run. I wore 4 rims out on one bike rear only as the front was disc. Even pads work out cheaper.
I am of course ignoring the bike with ceramic rims.


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## brand (19 Oct 2014)

PS Rolhoff gears are also an investment which will save you money, although in this case you have to put the miles in to save on chains and sprockets. As I had habit of breaking derailleurs I have saved more money there as well.


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## Globalti (19 Oct 2014)

I went over to discs on mountain bikes about 15 years ago after suffering years of the wear and tear of Lancashire grit on rims - I got pretty good at fitting new rims to my wheels by taping the new alongside the old and transferring the spokes over. Then I bought a disc-brake Global Ti and had to find some wheels, bought a set second hand and have been using them ever since, the rims are in perfect condition. Still got the original Hope minis as well and they work as well as they day they were new.


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## G3CWI (19 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> I rarely if ever lock the wheels on my car and haven't done for years.



Cars have had anti-lock brakes for years.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Oct 2014)

G3CWI said:


> Cars have had anti-lock brakes for years.


Nothing I've ever owned has, and I've had plenty of the things.


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## upandover (19 Oct 2014)

brand said:


> So no front suspension. Now the claim by Thorn is that it is hard on the hands/wrists?? It should be remembered that they specialise in tourers so possibly different over long distances??



I find it really nice on my arms. My last roadbike with carbon forks was a very old one, but this is def much nicer. Better than my flat-bar hybrid certainly. Just on my experience, they don't feel rough on my arms. The Syanapse as a whole is a fantastic ride.


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## Robeh (19 Oct 2014)

upandover said:


> I have a new Synapse 105 disc, and I love it. It's my commuter in all weather, and the disc break feel great. Probably not necc much of the time, but the do work just as well in the wet and mud, (and Horse manure, given some of my commute is on country lanes!) Whether they're better or not, I do like them.


i have the 2015 model aswell and considering its not the lightest bike it rides really well and is smooth and very fast.
the brakes work very well.im well happy with it


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## gavintc (19 Oct 2014)

I have never used disc brakes, but I would imagine that wheel changing would be slower with a disc braked wheel than a rim brake system.


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## Robeh (19 Oct 2014)

No slower TBH i put 2 GP4000S Tyres on the wheels yesterday and it took me 5 mins per wheel.


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## Banjo (19 Oct 2014)

I think the geometry of a bike has more to do with comfort than if it has discs or not. If your stretched out on a bike your more likely to have your elbows locked straight where a more relaxed bike like a Synapse encourages you to keep a bend at the elbow which acts like a shock absorber.

Havent ridden mine very far yet but so far it feels great , comfortable and quick.


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## Globalti (19 Oct 2014)

gavintc said:


> I have never used disc brakes, but I would imagine that wheel changing would be slower with a disc braked wheel than a rim brake system.



No difference. With a disc you can just drop the wheel in and you don't even need to close the brakes. Discs can be a bit difficult to set up but usually once set up they are good for life.


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## boydj (19 Oct 2014)

Globalti said:


> No difference. With a disc you can just drop the wheel in and you don't even need to close the brakes. Discs can be a bit difficult to set up but usually once set up they are good for life.


I built a Croix de Fer this year with TRP HyRd brakes. Easy to set up and use, and very effective. While replacing a wheel is easy, I find I take just a bit of care to ensure that the disc slots in between the pads correctly before pushing it fully home, so not really any slower than rim brake wheels.


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## Flick of the Elbow (19 Oct 2014)

However, much as I like them for my own bikes, I can't see them ever being used in the peloton. The gap between pad and disc is so small that having set it up for one wheel I can't see another wheel simply slotting in without a good chance of adjustment required. Also pity the mechanic in the back seat of the team car jumping back in with the too hot to touch wheel that he's just taken out, could cause some nasty accidents !


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## MacB (19 Oct 2014)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> However, much as I like them for my own bikes, I can't see them ever being used in the peloton. The gap between pad and disc is so small that having set it up for one wheel I can't see another wheel simply slotting in without a good chance of adjustment required. Also pity the mechanic in the back seat of the team car jumping back in with the too hot to touch wheel that he's just taken out, could cause some nasty accidents !



I think they'll get around these problems/fears, too much money involved


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## StuAff (19 Oct 2014)

It *will* happen in the pro peloton, probably 2016. Planning by the UCI and manufacturers is ongoing.


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## Flick of the Elbow (19 Oct 2014)

MacB said:


> I think they'll get around these problems/fears, too much money involved


Surely the cycle trade makes more money out of customers constantly needing new wheels/wheel builds from worn out rims ?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Oct 2014)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Surely the cycle trade makes more money out of customers constantly needing new wheels/wheel builds from worn out rims ?


So they'll make it out of hydro seals, pistons,pads,discs, bleeding and oil instead.


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## MacB (19 Oct 2014)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> Surely the cycle trade makes more money out of customers constantly needing new wheels/wheel builds from worn out rims ?



I would have thought the mass upgrades of frames and forks moving over to discs would outweigh that and there's the other bits as TMHNET says


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## cyberknight (19 Oct 2014)

StuAff said:


> It *will* happen in the pro peloton, probably 2016. Planning by the UCI and manufacturers is ongoing.


Mamil mag C+ reviewed a bianchi disc ( i think ) that had a uci approved sticker on recently .....


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## StuAff (19 Oct 2014)

cyberknight said:


> Mamil mag C+ reviewed a bianchi disc ( i think ) that had a uci approved sticker on recently .....


As a C+ subscriber..if it's the Infinito CV Disc (October issue) you were thinking of, that's not a UCI sticker on the frame- it denotes it as part of Bianchi's C2C range.


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## Flying Dodo (19 Oct 2014)

Flick of the Elbow said:


> However, much as I like them for my own bikes, I can't see them ever being used in the peloton. The gap between pad and disc is so small that having set it up for one wheel I can't see another wheel simply slotting in without a good chance of adjustment required. Also pity the mechanic in the back seat of the team car jumping back in with the too hot to touch wheel that he's just taken out, could cause some nasty accidents !



There's at least a couple of mm gap. If a team is all riding the same type of bike with the same wheels, then it definitely wouldn't be a problem.


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## Wafer (19 Oct 2014)

I'm another of the Synapse Disc 105 owners and liking the brakes. Certainly find I have to do more adjusting when taking the wheel off a lot (for shoving in the back of the car) but if left alone it's fine. Seems like they need more time/development to work a few things out, some bikes, like mine, have normal QR, some have through axles, which are meant to resolve some of the positioning issues and MTBs use more I think? I doubt those issues will be insurmountable. I think disc brakes handle the heat of lots of use better too? Which may not mean a lot to me, but will interest the pro peleton I would expect.

Wonder if in a few years time the debate will be moot and discs will be the standard.


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## Banjo (20 Oct 2014)

Very few "racing bikes" ever get raced. Market forces will take over and if Sportive or leisure riders want discs then that is what we will find more and more available ..


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## the_mikey (20 Oct 2014)

Banjo said:


> Very few "racing bikes" ever get raced. Market forces will take over and if Sportive or leisure riders want discs then that is what we will find more and more available ..



That may be so, but some brands are maintaining a range of high end carbon rim braked road bikes while the UCI ruling still exists. I suspect that once the ruling is changed (and some kind of standardisation of road disc technology) then all but the bottom of the range will have some kind of disc brake.


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## Venod (20 Oct 2014)

The down side of disc brakes to me compared to rim is the weight, I used BB7 with shimano levers on the cross bike and the braking was not as good as the rim brakes on the road bike (same levers) I have hydraulic discs on the MTB and they are brilliant, I am just putting together another MTB, I am going to try BB7 mtn discs with speed dial levers & see how they fair, I have heard good reports as long as you use decent cabling.


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## Bodhbh (20 Oct 2014)

brand said:


> The forks have to be strengthend and it is supposed to be very hard on the wrists/hands if there is no front suspension. That's according to Thorn.



Thorn are very strongly against discs, at least on their tourers. I'm not necessarily disputting the point as I've not ridden on a road bike with discs - but they do lay on the doom and gloom about discs in their bumph.


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## adscrim (20 Oct 2014)

Another Synapse 105 Disc owner here. I picked the bike up 3 weeks ago and although I've been commuting on it since then (5miles each way) Saturday was the first significant ride out (70 miles). There have been a couple of wet days since collection and I opted for the Synapse on Saturday as it was already wet with a forecast for more, and it's got full guards.

I've found stopping in the wet significantly improved which, to me, is of particular benefit when around traffic. I haven't experience any problems with aching arms or hands and I ride without gloves when it's not cold (as I did on Saturday).

Happy as I am, I not in any great rush to change over my other road bike. It's used mostly in the summer when road, even when wet, tend to be cleaner. I don't spend alot of time around traffic on it and so far, I've not notice any problems riding in groups where we've had some on discs and other on rims.

I like them, and I'm glad I've got them; but as with so many other cycling purchases I'm under no illusions that I need them.


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## Pale Rider (20 Oct 2014)

Cable discs are a faff to set up and need regular adjustment, hydraulics are fit and forget.

One thing both systems do is torture spokes - all the braking force goes through them.

Not a problem on hybrids which tend to have heavier built wheels and a high spoke count.

Could be a problem on a racer with ultra light wheels.

I would be interested to hear from disc brake road bike owners if the wheels/spokes appear to be built for the purpose.


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## Brandane (20 Oct 2014)

I have disc brakes on my MTB.. As I don't use it for it's intended purpose of charging down mountains, I decided to ditch the heavy and useless suspension forks and replaced them with a carbon fork.
The problem now is the flex in the carbon fork under braking forces, which means the front brake is not as effective as it should be. I assume that the same problem would occur on carbon forked road bikes, unless they stiffen them up. Which would mean extra weight and less ride comfort?


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## screenman (20 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Nothing I've ever owned has, and I've had plenty of the things.



Blimey, are you driving some kind of classic?


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## screenman (20 Oct 2014)

PR, does braking not go through the spokes on rim brakes as well, must admit it is nothing I have given much thought too.


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## GrumpyGregry (20 Oct 2014)

Bodhbh said:


> Thorn are very strongly against discs, at least on their tourers. I'm not necessarily disputting the point as I've not ridden on a road bike with discs - but they do lay on the doom and gloom about discs in their bumph.


Yeah. They do. I ignore 'em completely, what I think it means is "we can't build a disc fork we like". I'm on my second disc braked tourer.


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## Smokin Joe (20 Oct 2014)

Bodhbh said:


> Thorn are very strongly against discs, at least on their tourers. I'm not necessarily disputting the point as I've not ridden on a road bike with discs - but they do lay on the doom and gloom about discs in their bumph.


Thorn have said some rather strange things about how bikes should be made in the past. Maybe they know something nobody else does or maybe they're just nuts, who knows?


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## Venod (21 Oct 2014)

I have a mate who rides a Thorn Audax and he loves it, I like there quirkiness and the cycling world would be a worse place without them, they stock a lot of stuff that is hard to find anywhere else, but you have to pay for the service, they aren't the cheapest.


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## brand (21 Oct 2014)

Bodhbh said:


> Thorn are very strongly against discs, at least on their tourers. I'm not necessarily disputting the point as I've not ridden on a road bike with discs - but they do lay on the doom and gloom about discs in their bumph.


Not really they are against disc brakes on non suspension forks. They are happy to make up tourer with discs on suspension fork.


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## the_mikey (21 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Thorn have said some rather strange things about how bikes should be made in the past. Maybe they know something nobody else does or maybe they're just nuts, who knows?



One suspects that a damaged disc on tour is a bit of a showstopper. Especially if you're thousands of miles away from your favourite road cycling beautique.


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## MacB (21 Oct 2014)

the_mikey said:


> One suspects that a damaged disc on tour is a bit of a showstopper. Especially if you're thousands of miles away from your favourite road cycling beautique.



if they're mechanical discs brakes then carrying a spare rotor and even caliper wouldn't be an issue, depends how loaded/self sufficient you want to tour. You can also make a similar argument around touring with a rohloff(I'm a fan by the way) as it's not exactly and everyday repairable item. Then there's do you tour on a 26" or 700c wheelset? I like the move to disc brakes and can some benefits across the board:-

road disc wheels, touring disc wheels and 29er wheels are pretty much interchangeable

unlike rim brake frames disc brake ones don't care about wheelsize, in a pinch you could utilise a variety of wheelsizes from 20" up to 29" to get you home/to next bike shop. It's also possible to design a frame that will work well with 26" up to 700c assuming you use the smaller wheels for bigger tires and vice vera. This would keep the geometry fairly static so you could have a frameset that you toured on with 26" 2" tires and used on the road with 700x25 wheels/tires.

rotor failure on a disc brake doesn't make a bike unrideable you can just remove the rotor, not so with a rim failure.


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## Beebo (21 Oct 2014)

BSRU said:


> A mechanic from one of the big tour teams made a salient point that it is not very desirable to have spinning metal rotors(blades) because they'll cause real serious carnage in a crash(very common in racing).


 


Smokin Joe said:


> I wonder why they allow them on racing motorcycles then, which can go barrelling down the road at 200 mph? Nobody ever wanted chainrings banned on bikes because the teeth might slice someone's leg off


 
The disk is much thinner and much more exposed in cycling, especially the front disk. The rear disk is protected by the rear triangle, as is the rear cassette. Plus the riders arent wearing thick leather either.
I have disk brakes on my road bike, and a guy in the bike shed was amazed at how thin my disk was compared to his MTB disk. It realy is a bit like a circular saw.
You wouldnt want to be hit in the calf at 30mph by a spinning front disk.


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## MacB (21 Oct 2014)

I wonder if there is a system that could provide the benefits of disc brakes and remove some of the drawbacks - how about drum brakes?

Or they could just create an aerodynamic carbon shell that fits over the front disc as a safety precaution, maybe for race use only?


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## Smokin Joe (21 Oct 2014)

the_mikey said:


> One suspects that a damaged disc on tour is a bit of a showstopper. Especially if you're thousands of miles away from your favourite road cycling beautique.





Beebo said:


> You wouldnt want to be hit in the calf at 30mph by a spinning front disk.



To be hit on the calf by a disc which is mounted inboard of the fork your leg would have first had to go through the spokes of the front wheel. That's the most ridiculous reason I've heard for not wanting to adopt new technology, and I've heard all the scare stories from indexed gears through clipless pedals and brifters, plus all the rest.


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## Beebo (21 Oct 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> To be hit on the calf by a disc which is mounted inboard of the fork *your leg would have first had to go through the spokes of the front wheel*. That's the most ridiculous reason I've heard for not wanting to adopt new technology, and I've heard all the scare stories from indexed gears through clipless pedals and brifters, plus all the rest.


No it wouldnt, you could easily get a glancing blow from the tyre, straight into this.


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## Bodhbh (21 Oct 2014)

the_mikey said:


> One suspects that a damaged disc on tour is a bit of a showstopper. Especially if you're thousands of miles away from your favourite road cycling beautique.



I've had v few problems with discs on tour. Well two: after pushing the bike several hundred meters thru thick clay, I managed to scour out the pads. My fault really for trying to go thru stupid crap, rim brakes would prolly have just locked the wheels with clay due to lack of mud clearance and I'd have had to gone another way. Other time, the pad retainer pin fell out, and so did the pads. My fault again for not bending the pin properly. I've yet to have a bent disc or them fail altogether tho. In fact the Shimano M525s are the only things left from the orginal build after 6-7 years swapping out other bits either due to brakage, wear out or upgrades.

You do have two brakes afterall to limp to the next port of call. Also front and back racks make a makeshift around the discs. And as MacB says, is it really any more likely than bending the rims out of true, either thru wacks or spokes pinning (which can happen a fair bit on tour if you're wheels aren't properly built). Sorry, thread derail....


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2014)

Beebo said:


> You wouldnt want to be hit in the calf at 30mph by a spinning front disk.



This is absolute nonsense. If you've just fallen off your bike at 30 mph the spinning disc is going to be the least of your worries. And just how do you suggest that your body might come into contact with the disc anyway? 

Posts like this are as daft as those from people who objected to wearing seat belts because they feared getting trapped in a burning car.


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## Beebo (21 Oct 2014)

Globalti said:


> This is absolute nonsense. If you've just fallen off your bike at 30 mph the spinning disc is going to be the least of your worries. And just how do you suggest that your body might come into contact with the disc anyway?
> 
> Posts like this are as daft as those from people who objected to wearing seat belts because they feared getting trapped in a burning car.


You clearly havent understood what I was saying.
This is about racing in mass events, when the whole peleton comes to a crunching stop, the guy in front puts his right foot down, the guy behind crashes into his calf with the left side of this front wheel.


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2014)

Well then the front wheel would be stopped, wouldn't it? Mountain bikers fall off lots more than roadies but I've never seen an injury caused by a disc brake.


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## MacB (21 Oct 2014)

Beebo said:


> No it wouldnt, you could easily get a glancing blow from the tyre, straight into this.



Beebs I know you mean well but I'm just not getting shock, fear and awe from that image


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## Smokin Joe (21 Oct 2014)

Globalti said:


> Well then the front wheel would be stopped, wouldn't it? Mountain bikers fall off lots more than roadies but I've never seen an injury caused by a disc brake.


Exactly. There's more chance of getting a brake lever through the neck than getting your leg severed by a disc and I've never seen that happen.

Within a few years of the UCI approving discs rim brakes will be history and we'll no more miss them than we do cottered cranks.


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## boydj (21 Oct 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> Cable discs are a faff to set up and need regular adjustment, hydraulics are fit and forget.
> 
> One thing both systems do is torture spokes - all the braking force goes through them.
> 
> ...



The answer is to have wheels which are built to take the stresses of disc brakes. CX bikes tend to use mtb hubs with 700c rims. My own wheels have Hope hubs and Archetype rims with 32 spokes. I'm pretty sure that some of the new road disc wheels that have been introduced recently will have found ways to minimise weight while maintaining strength.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Oct 2014)

boydj said:


> The answer is to have wheels which are built to take the stresses of disc brakes. CX bikes tend to use mtb hubs with 700c rims. My own wheels have Hope hubs and Archetype rims with 32 spokes. I'm pretty sure that some of the new road disc wheels that have been introduced recently will have found ways to minimise weight while maintaining strength.


What have MTB wheels been all these years then if Pale Riders post is such an issue?


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## boydj (21 Oct 2014)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> What have MTB wheels been all these years then if Pale Riders post is such an issue?


Good point. But then you don't see low spoke counts on mtb wheels and the shorter spokes do make them inherently stronger. I'm sure the road guys will be testing the limits on weight vs the strength required for road riding. It would seem to be only a matter of time before we see the professional road teams on disc-braked bikes, given the rate at which new models are acquiring disc brakes..


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## MacB (21 Oct 2014)

boydj said:


> given the rate at which new models are acquiring disc brakes..



that's the telling point for me, I can't see any way they'd be ploughing ahead in this manner if they didn't know it was coming


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## dodgy (21 Oct 2014)

Yes, it's spinning discs of white hot metal that are the real danger. Not dozens of effectively piano wire strung between hubs and rims, or chinese throwing stars (cassettes) spinning on the back wheel, or the buzz saws attached near the cranks.

Oh no, it's the discs. Discs are bad.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Oct 2014)

dodgy said:


> Yes, it's spinning discs of white hot metal that are the real danger. Not dozens of effectively piano wire strung between hubs and rims, or chinese throwing stars (cassettes) spinning on the back wheel, or the buzz saws attached near the cranks.
> 
> Oh no, it's the discs. Discs are bad.


Everything new in cycling has always been bad. The mantra has always been, "If it was good enough for my dad it's good enough for me, unless I can find something that was good enough for my grandad".


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## DRHysted (21 Oct 2014)

Look at my avatar. I've had that since January, and it has run faultlessly (excluding the Sora groupset which got changed to Ultegra).
My commuter is a CX with disc, I have had issues with the rear wheel, but I think that is because it is not a good rear wheel, then again it has managed 3000 miles, with three snapped spokes (all went whilst not under stress), and the freehub is (almost) spent (and can't be replaced). New wheels next year.

The difference in braking was demonstrated quite well on the NF100 when I got rear ended (on the Roubaix) because the bloke behind had wet brakes, no damage to either bike. The feel is completely different, the confidence they inspire is great. They are IMHO the future.


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2014)

Definitely. We found the same when we went over to discs on mountain bikes in the nineties.


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## upandover (21 Oct 2014)

Beebo said:


> The disk is much thinner and much more exposed in cycling, especially the front disk. The rear disk is protected by the rear triangle, as is the rear cassette. Plus the riders arent wearing thick leather either.
> I have disk brakes on my road bike, and a guy in the bike shed was amazed at how thin my disk was compared to his MTB disk. It realy is a bit like a circular saw.
> You wouldnt want to be hit in the calf at 30mph by a spinning front disk.



Interestingly, those on my roadbike are the same thickness as the ones on my mtb....


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