# Getting tired of the effort it takes to save money......



## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

This seems to be a recurring annual theme for me. As well as the continual process of making sure I don't pay over the odds for day to day purchases and one-off tech treats etc I also have a rush at this time of year due to energy and SWMBO car insurance renewals then my car and the house insurance in the next month or two.
Today I have initiated an energy supplier switch and just renewed the good lady wife's car insurance and now I am tired, feel like I have done 12 rounds in a boxing ring but eventually won on points 

Call me cynical but fixed energy contract was coming to an end and annual cost was gong to jump (nay, leap!) from £1300pa to £2150pa if I did nothing . They were offering me various alternatives to get new 'deals' for the next 12 months, the best of which worked out at around £1850pa. Have used a comparison site and managed to get this down to £1525pa fixed for two years with OVO (2yrs should be good, can't see costs going down really?). This is where the cynical side of me kicks in because within 1 hr of initiating the switch, my current provider sent me an email offering a 'special' rate for 'valued' customers and this brought them to within £100 of my new provider. They can stick their 'special' offer where the sun don't shine. I suspect they got the notification that I am leaving so only then decided not to try and milk me for £hundreds a year more than their best deals.

Similar with the car insurance. Tesco offered a renewal of nearly £1200 compared to last years approx. £650 premium. Admittedly we have swapped to a much more powerful and newer car, but as 44yr old married, home owning, employed, family people with clean histories that is taking the peepee! After doing the Martin Lewis MoneySavingExpert routine (4 comparison sites and 3 x direct insurance sites) I feel weak and barely have the will to live 
On a plus note I now have a policy costing only £640 inc legal and protected NCD, but even that wasn't straightforward. When linking through from the comparison site my price jumped from £630 to....... nearly £1200 . I had to ring the company directly to go through the quote again which now mysteriously came back down to £640 (I pushed them on that last £10 but they wouldn't budge).

Anyway, over £1k saved today but now I need to go and lie down for a bit. At least I shouldn't have to do the energy dance next year......

There must be a simpler way?


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## oldfatfool (5 Sep 2017)

Ouch what car are you driving!


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## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

Daren't say as it would be very unpopular on here.... 

Needless to say, it is unnecessarily powerful and my wife commutes a fair way so is expected to cover around 20kpa which no doubt bumps up the price somewhat?


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## Drago (5 Sep 2017)

£1200 for car insurance!!!

Perhaps driving a Bentley and putting "mercenary" as an occupation isn't terribly cost effective? 

Without NCB protection and legal cover mine costs barely a one-er.


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Sep 2017)

Consumer inertia drives most "utility" providers profit. How much do you notionally pay yourself, you are making significant savings?


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## Heigue'r (5 Sep 2017)

So its an Audi


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## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> £1200 for car insurance!!!


I don't pay that much, but they wanted me to.


GrumpyGregry said:


> How much do you notionally pay yourself, you are making significant savings?


I saved over £1k today. If I can do that everyday I will never need to work again....


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## Crackle (5 Sep 2017)

It's tedious doing stuff like that and mind numbing.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Sep 2017)

Yup its an uphill battle..and when we get to retirement its get dearer again..
I think i get more annoyed with the cheek of insurance and power providers..
Why not give us the deal first time instead of just hoping we will be good old stupid uk buyer's.

People are getting more savvy but you really shouldn't have to..
My virgin tv phone internet package is going up yet again in november..£3 a month 36 quid a year.
Ill be able to watch stuff on my phone !!! I watch my bloody 42" telly ta . .i dont need this or music..
I'd dump them for a year and use sky but that means BT line rental ,so that ain't happening..im a secret BT hater.. And sky for that matter..greedy bastids

Mind you i blame the feckin premiership


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## SpokeyDokey (5 Sep 2017)

All of this malarkey is sub-contracted to Lovely Wife who has far more patience than me.

Mind you, she seems to employ a double entry accounting system with any savings made on utilities etc appearing as credits in her 'hair & nail care' account.


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## srw (5 Sep 2017)

User said:


> £1,200 is extracting the urine! I drive a large German car and am insured for business purposes - and that comes to £500ish per annum, including legal and protected no claims. It was lower but I did cost them £4k in repairs in the previous year....


You live near a leafy academic town, not in the crash-for-cash ambulance-chasing capital of the country.

As a rule of thumb, the shop-around price for motor insurance is broadly fair. It's a cut-throat market based on extensive data analytics.


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## helston90 (5 Sep 2017)

They make it this difficult in the vein hope that you'll not bother moving and just pay whatever they tell you renewal is!


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## fossyant (5 Sep 2017)

They are buggers - car insurance is silly. Just for a laugh, I thought I'd see what a new(ish) Astra VXR would cost, and it's under £500 notes for my age. I currently pay £250 for an old family car.

My energy company isn't too bad but it pays to keep check on the rates.

Whilst I was in hospital my leccy bill went bonkers - I assume they'd had the dryer on continuously and heating in the conservatory 24/7. Fortunately it's back to normal.


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## Drago (5 Sep 2017)

The way I see it Foss the speed limit is 70, and even the cheaper cars will do that. So long as they are reliable and keep my brogues dry in the rain then I'm happy. Along with this pragmatism comes cheap insurance.

Not wasting money in this sort of thing allowed me to quit work at 47. Every time someone buys/leases/PCPs themselves a flash German car they're simply adding unnecessary years to their working lives, while at the same time moaning they'll have to work until at least 67. Go figure.


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## fossyant (5 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> The way I see it Foss the speed limit is 70, and even the cheaper cars will do that. So long as they are reliable and keep my brogues dry in the rain then I'm happy. Along with this pragmatism comes cheap insurance.
> 
> Not wasting money in this sort of thing allowed me to quit work at 47. Every time someone buys/leases/PCPs themselves a flash German car they're simply adding unnecessary years to their working lives, while at the same time moaning they'll have to work until at least 67. Go figure.



I've still got the old car. Just thought I'd see what benefit my age now has.. PS It wouldn't fit bikes in well. Tempted with a pick up one day.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (5 Sep 2017)

I like Skol said:


> When linking through from the comparison site my price jumped from £630 to....... nearly £1200


Clear out your cookies.


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## Drago (5 Sep 2017)

This is heady stuff. I'm looking forward to the money off coupon thread.


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## Wobblers (5 Sep 2017)

I like Skol said:


> There must be a simpler way?



There is: ditch the car and go and live in a cave.

Problem solved! (No need to thank me )


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## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Clear out your cookies.


Well I did hammer the bourbons and the custard creams while I was doing the shopping around but didn't spot any cookies in the tin or else might have 'cleared them out' too


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## I like Skol (5 Sep 2017)

User13710 said:


> Gosh, this is nearly as exciting as that yellow stickering thread.


Sod off you! This is an important [1st world] problem and needs to be talked about. I didn't realise you had excess funds and didn't care what things cost


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## potsy (5 Sep 2017)

User13710 said:


> Gosh, this is nearly as exciting as that yellow stickering thread.


Impossible!!


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## Salty seadog (5 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> £1200 for car insurance!!!
> 
> Perhaps driving a Bentley and putting "mercenary" as an occupation isn't terribly cost effective?
> 
> Without NCB protection and legal cover mine costs barely a one-er.



Mind you, you're car smells of wee...


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## slowmotion (5 Sep 2017)

We got sent a renewal notice for our home insurance a couple of months ago, together with a cost of renewal. It was a few quid more than the previous year so I phoned them to say "Yes". They started asking me questions. I interrupted and told them that absolutely nothing had changed since the previous year, and couldn't we both save ourselves a bit of time? No. Ten minutes later, they gave me a quotation that was £150 more than the one on the renewal notice. I asked why?

"That was just an illustration".

The entire industry is manned by ragged spivs.


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## Drago (6 Sep 2017)

Indeed. The algorithms they use are very clever. The insurance industries perception of "risk" is far from always a measure of that which genuinely presents a significant risk, but in large part includes a calculation as to how affluent they believe the customer to be, and thus how much they can make them pay.

I discovered this first hand. 7 years ago I moved almost exactly 1 mile, from an already nice street to a more affluent area. Unsurprisingly, my car insurance went up about 20%. Being a copper at the time I was able to check both the crime and RTC data for both areas, and lo and behold - the new area had lower recorded crime, and lower rates of reported RTC's. Indeed, the only thing that had gone up in my new area was the average salaries.

I rang my insurers and presented them with this information. After lots of "oh" and "ah"ing they returned my premium to its previous figure. The local radio even ran a brief piece about it, although ultimately the insurer kept publicly schtum.

So there you go, good evidence that a significant part of their calculations is the customers ability to support a particular price. Actual empirical demonstrable "risk" can be a very minor element in their calculations.


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## screenman (6 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> The way I see it Foss the speed limit is 70, and even the cheaper cars will do that. So long as they are reliable and keep my brogues dry in the rain then I'm happy. Along with this pragmatism comes cheap insurance.
> 
> Not wasting money in this sort of thing allowed me to quit work at 47. Every time someone buys/leases/PCPs themselves a flash German car they're simply adding unnecessary years to their working lives, while at the same time moaning they'll have to work until at least 67. Go figure.



Are you sure it had nothing to do with you being in a very generous pension scheme


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## srw (6 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> includes a calculation as to how affluent they believe the customer to be, and thus how much they can make them pay.


Absolute rubbish.


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## I like Skol (6 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Indeed. The algorithms they use are very clever. The insurance industries perception of "risk" is far from always a measure of that which genuinely presents a significant risk, but in large part includes a calculation as to how affluent they believe the customer to be, and thus how much they can make them pay.
> 
> I discovered this first hand. 7 years ago I moved almost exactly 1 mile, from an already nice street to a more affluent area. Unsurprisingly, my car insurance went up about 20%. Being a copper at the time I was able to check both the crime and RTC data for both areas, and lo and behold - the new area had lower recorded crime, and lower rates of reported RTC's. Indeed, the only thing that had gone up in my new area was the average salaries.
> 
> ...


That doesn't work because I live in a deprived shoothole!


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## Drago (6 Sep 2017)

srw said:


> Absolute rubbish.



Is it? How do you account for my experience, moving to a provably lower risk area only to have premiums rise? If you have any insight into that i'd be genuinely interested to hear it.

The insurers are forever telling us their charges are based upon risk, when in my example that was demonstrably, absolutely that was not the case. So what did drive the rise in premium?


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## srw (6 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> Is it? How do you account for my experience, moving to a provably lower risk area only to have premiums rise? If you have any insight into that i'd be genuinely interested to hear it.
> 
> The insurers are forever telling us their charges are based upon risk, when in my example that was demonstrably, absolutely that was not the case. So what did drive the rise in premium?


The insurers were right, you misunderstood the risk and successfully negotiated a better deal.

If insurance company A deliberately overcharges risk group X it will be undercut by company B that doesn't. It's called a market.


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## Drago (6 Sep 2017)

I had empirical data that the risk of loss, damage, or injury was lower than my previous address. I wasn't insured for any thing else, and all the criteria they regard as risk were reduced.

Where is the misunderstanding? Please, feel free to expand upon the misunderstanding. The consumer experts at the BBC couldn't identify the misunderstanding, and neither can I. Risk provably reduces, numbers to prove it, yet prices rise - no latitude for misunderstanding there.

Your final sentence is correct if all companies behave in a logical, market driven fashion. Unfortunately, insurers do not, as the rampant abuse of hire car charges to which they all are guilty will attest. They're driven my profit opportunity, no matter how illogical it may ultimately be, and how unsustainable or dangerous to the long-term health of the industry it may be. The idea of maintaining a stable and sustainable market using established business practice to tap into legitimate market forces and trends is alien to them. All they want is maximum nickel and dime now. Today. And to Hell with tomorrow.


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## srw (6 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> had empirical data that the risk of loss, damage, or injury was lower than my previous address


No you didn't.

And the rest of your post is arrant and prejudiced nonsense. If I wasn't on a phone and could be bothered to educate you I could explain, but I suspect you wouldn't listen.


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## mjr (8 Sep 2017)

srw said:


> The insurers were right, you misunderstood the risk and successfully negotiated a better deal.
> 
> If insurance company A deliberately overcharges risk group X it will be undercut by company B that doesn't. It's called a market.


Specifically, it's called a market for lemons. The sellers have access to much more information on the market than the buyers. AFAICT, there's no way to independently verify whose hypothesis of @Drago's renewal experience is correct.


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## Markymark (8 Sep 2017)

I moved two streets away and my premium went up. When it was done and dusted (I managed to get it roughly the same) I pretended to move back again and my premium was again to go up.

It's more about being ripped off by insurance companies who are charging what they think they can get away with....though I dare say they'll argue the rates have changed due to risk changes during all the times I requested the quotes


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## screenman (8 Sep 2017)

I think most businesses bill them till they hollar then back it down a dollar.


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## Milkfloat (8 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> I had empirical data that the risk of loss, damage, or injury was lower than my previous address. I wasn't insured for any thing else, and all the criteria they regard as risk were reduced.
> 
> Where is the misunderstanding? Please, feel free to expand upon the misunderstanding. The consumer experts at the BBC couldn't identify the misunderstanding, and neither can I. Risk provably reduces, numbers to prove it, yet prices rise - no latitude for misunderstanding there.



Did you factor in small changes such as distance from Fire/police Station or proximity to natural hazards such a rivers? In addition did you have access to the companies other customers data to see if they were spreading their risk geographically? An insurance company certainly would not insure every car in town when a big hailstorm hits.


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## byegad (8 Sep 2017)

srw said:


> The insurers were right, you misunderstood the risk and successfully negotiated a better deal.
> 
> If insurance company A deliberately overcharges risk group X it will be undercut by company B that doesn't. It's called a market.



And when they 'share' their data it's called a Cartel!


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## srw (8 Sep 2017)

byegad said:


> And when they 'share' their data it's called a Cartel!


Which is why they don't.


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## Drago (8 Sep 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> Did you factor in small changes such as distance from Fire/police Station or proximity to natural hazards such a rivers? In addition did you have access to the companies other customers data to see if they were spreading their risk geographically? An insurance company certainly would not insure every car in town when a big hailstorm hits.



Closer to both, as it goes. Not insured for acts of God anyway. The risk they were claiming did not correspond to the actual geographical risk as reported to the dibble.


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## byegad (8 Sep 2017)

srw said:


> Which is why they don't.


I strongly suspect that they do! They share your given details of any application you make, I suspect that it goes much further.


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## srw (8 Sep 2017)

byegad said:


> I strongly suspect that they do! They share your given details of any application you make, I suspect that it goes much further.


It doesn't. Data protection and competition law doesn't allow it. Fines are enormous, and prison sentences are possible.

There is limited sharing of aggregate statistical data, and the amount and granularity of data involved has shrunk over the last 20-odd years as the law has tightened. There is a central database of claims made to help prevent fraud and contribute to the understanding of risk. There is a database of people involved in insurance fraud. There's a database of employer's liability policies (but it doesn't include premiums). And that's just about it (although I'm sure some clever-clogs will be along to point out something I've forgotten).

It is not true that details of applications are shared, and if you have any evidence of it happening I suggest you contact the police - it's illegal.


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## byegad (8 Sep 2017)

But every time you make an application for insurance, they tell you they will share the data you give. So making it impossible to tell the first company you apply to that you were banned for 12 months,then 'forgetting' to tell the second.


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## FishFright (8 Sep 2017)

byegad said:


> But every time you make an application for insurance, they tell you they will *share the data *you give. So making it impossible to tell the first company you apply to that you were banned for 12 months,then 'forgetting' to tell the second.



I think by 'share the data' I think they mean selling your details to marketing companies.


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## I like Skol (28 Aug 2019)

My 2yrs of energy peace is coming to an end and it is time to do the rounds again 

I've done pretty well over the last two years and looks like I have been prudent and actually reduced energy usage slightly since the fixed price plan was started.

Current best deal available to me is 12 month fixed with Avro for £1590. Avro have been in the headlines for not towing the line on smart meters, which makes them even more attractive, and better still don't have an active installation program, so I shouldn't be continually pestered to fit the wretched things.

Has anyone got and opinions of Avro, good or bad?


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## SpokeyDokey (28 Aug 2019)

I like Skol said:


> My 2yrs of energy peace is coming to an end and it is time to do the rounds again
> 
> I've done pretty well over the last two years and looks like I have been prudent and actually reduced energy usage slightly since the fixed price plan was started.
> 
> ...



I remember this thread from when I was much younger. 

Good luck going back around the hamster wheel.


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## fossyant (28 Aug 2019)

Good luck. Our energy use rocketed after Mrs F got her hot tub...just getting the usage under reliable monitoring now after a couple of years with it. Will be changing after this deal goes, and won't be going smart.


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## Phaeton (28 Aug 2019)

Try Octopus there are several on here who can send you a recommendation link including me, we both get £50  (added to our accounts)


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## vickster (28 Aug 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Try Octopus there are several on here who can send you a recommendation link including me, we both get £50  (added to our accounts)


I can offer the same for Bulb


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## I like Skol (28 Aug 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Try Octopus there are several on here who can send you a recommendation link including me, we both get £50  (added to our accounts)





vickster said:


> I can offer the same for Bulb


I'll take a look later


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## I like Skol (28 Aug 2019)

Neither of those came up on the Martin Lewis energy club site, why is that?


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## vickster (28 Aug 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Neither of those came up on the Martin Lewis energy club site, why is that?


Dunno. Bulb come up best for me on Uswitch and meerkat. Not used the other site you mention. I don't sign up for things like that. Get enough junk email


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## Phaeton (28 Aug 2019)

If you know your usage I'm sure they have a calculator on their site


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## vickster (28 Aug 2019)

Just signed up. I wouldn’t commit to Avro on the basis of the warning on the site. I could allegedly save a massive £70 a year IF the cashback actually pays out. Not enough to bother. I’ll just turn lights off


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## oldwheels (28 Aug 2019)

Just wait, you are in for a shock as you get older. My house insurance seems to be stable but motor insurance is a different matter. Not sure what age it kicks in at but many companies, even those who claim no age limit will refuse to quote for new business car insurance so you are stuck with the company you currently have. Car hire companies generally have a notice saying they will not hire to anyone over age 70. My local garage says that this can be flexible sometimes on production of a clean driving license but no guarantee of acceptance.


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## shirokazan (28 Aug 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Current best deal...£1590.



Blimey, Skol! £1590? Have you got a swimming pool to heat?


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## I like Skol (28 Aug 2019)

shirokazan said:


> Blimey, Skol! £1590? Have you got a swimming pool to heat?


Skol Towers is quite a large and sprawling property, plus I do not live alone so the energy consumption is not entirely under my control.....


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## Milkfloat (28 Aug 2019)

I have been with Avro for a couple of years now, no problems at all. Website is basic but I get my gas and electric and the direct debits work.


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## vickster (28 Aug 2019)

shirokazan said:


> Blimey, Skol! £1590? Have you got a swimming pool to heat?


Friends of mine said their pool is about 5k to heat for about 3 months of the year


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## vickster (28 Aug 2019)

The MSE warning for Avro is explained here

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....vro-energy-stops-taking-on-new-customers/amp/


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## shirokazan (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Friends of mine said their pool is about 5k to heat for about 3 months of the year



Wow. By that yardstick, Skol must have a heated duck pond then.


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## fossyant (29 Aug 2019)

The hot tub at ours adds about £1 a day, and don't mention the lads gaming PC. Our gas is just £40 a month, but electric about £160.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

fossyant said:


> The hot tub at ours adds about £1 a day, and don't mention the lads gaming PC. Our gas is just £40 a month, but electric about £160.



I pay £60 a month for both (to be fair it’s just me, but I do Wah for 2-3 days a week)


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## Mo1959 (29 Aug 2019)

fossyant said:


> Our gas is just £40 a month, but electric about £160


My electric has recently gone up to around that too.  Still using storage heaters as I don’t want the upheaval of getting gas in.


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## mjr (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I pay £60 a month for both (to be fair it’s just me, but I do Wah for 2-3 days a week)


You do Wah? Diddy!


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## nickyboy (29 Aug 2019)

A more general tip for those interested in saving money on household running costs:

Your Council Tax is largely determined by the Band your property is deemed to occupy. There is an appeal system against the banding. If you can suggest any reasonable reason to appeal the banding they are obliged to review it. They have specialists who will come to your house to review it in person but that's a ball ache. If what you're suggesting is remotely reasonable they will approve it

Of course, if your house is in a group of other identical houses then it's unlikely to succeed. Ours is an individual house. Shortly after moving in (19 years ago) I appealed the Banding based on movements in house prices since the banding was established, what I'd paid for it etc (to get a decent idea of what the house was really worth when it was initially assessed). They approved a reduction by one band without ever visiting the property. Must have saved me thousands since I appealed


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## shirokazan (29 Aug 2019)

nickyboy said:


> There is an appeal system against the banding...Ours is an individual house.
> 
> ...19 years ago...I appealed the Banding



Congratulations, nickyboy, but very few appeals will succeed these days. 

Those that do will most likely be 'individual' houses such as yours. In essence, you have to show that the assessment is out-of-kilter with others in the same band. The Valuation Office probably did an external inspection of your property, a drive-by, if you will. :-)


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## mjr (29 Aug 2019)

shirokazan said:


> [...] The Valuation Office probably did an external inspection of your property, a drive-by, if you will. :-)


The Valuation Office (who employed relatives of mine) did not have enough valuers to do that in time, so external inspections were also done by contracted estate agents and (in some areas) almost anyone else with any property market experience. So if tempted to appeal, also check what bands similar nearby properties are in and the relative improvements made to them since 1990. Some houses are lucky to be in lower bands based on the flimsiest of reasons, such as getting Band C because a more carefully-assessed-at-random similar Band D neighbour had a pre-1990 extension even if it was small, or that improvements to a slightly smaller house were not obvious from the kerb.


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## nickyboy (29 Aug 2019)

shirokazan said:


> Congratulations, nickyboy, but very few appeals will succeed these days.
> 
> Those that do will most likely be 'individual' houses such as yours. In essence, you have to show that the assessment is out-of-kilter with others in the same band. The Valuation Office probably did an external inspection of your property, a drive-by, if you will. :-)


Maybe you're right. But I spent about two hours analysing and preparing the appeal. In return I've saved thousands. It may be worthwhile people in similar circumstances doing the same.

Although the appeal system may have changed over time, ours was conducted by phone. Essentially to see whether I would stick to my guns. I did and they just wrote to me confirming the rebanding

You have to be willing to work their system and not be put off. We've had a further reduction due to one of our sons being disabled, the other at university. That was a ball ache and they made it difficult. But by not giving up the Council Tax has reduced a lot


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## Shadow121 (29 Aug 2019)

I like Skol said:


> This seems to be a recurring annual theme for me. As well as the continual process of making sure I don't pay over the odds for day to day purchases and one-off tech treats etc I also have a rush at this time of year due to energy and SWMBO car insurance renewals then my car and the house insurance in the next month or two.
> Today I have initiated an energy supplier switch and just renewed the good lady wife's car insurance and now I am tired, feel like I have done 12 rounds in a boxing ring but eventually won on points
> 
> Call me cynical but fixed energy contract was coming to an end and annual cost was gong to jump (nay, leap!) from £1300pa to £2150pa if I did nothing . They were offering me various alternatives to get new 'deals' for the next 12 months, the best of which worked out at around £1850pa. Have used a comparison site and managed to get this down to £1525pa fixed for two years with OVO (2yrs should be good, can't see costs going down really?). This is where the cynical side of me kicks in because within 1 hr of initiating the switch, my current provider sent me an email offering a 'special' rate for 'valued' customers and this brought them to within £100 of my new provider. They can stick their 'special' offer where the sun don't shine. I suspect they got the notification that I am leaving so only then decided not to try and milk me for £hundreds a year more than their best deals.
> ...


No wonder you feel like you’ve done 12 rounds.
That is just taking the Pepe, insurance almost doubling,
and the cost of energy from 1300 to 2200, really shows
how there are no laws to protect us from sharks like this,
and the amount of hassle to change, it’s built in to dissuade us from
changing.


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## Notafettler (29 Aug 2019)

Drago said:


> Indeed. The algorithms they use are very clever. The insurance industries perception of "risk" is far from always a measure of that which genuinely presents a significant risk, but in large part includes a calculation as to how affluent they believe the customer to be, and thus how much they can make them pay.
> 
> I discovered this first hand. 7 years ago I moved almost exactly 1 mile, from an already nice street to a more affluent area. Unsurprisingly, my car insurance went up about 20%. Being a copper at the time I was able to check both the crime and RTC data for both areas, and lo and behold - the new area had lower recorded crime, and lower rates of reported RTC's. Indeed, the only thing that had gone up in my new area was the average salaries.
> 
> ...


Socialism?


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## slowmotion (29 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Socialism!


Capitalism actually!


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## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

Drago said:


> Is it? How do you account for my experience, moving to a provably lower risk area only to have premiums rise? If you have any insight into that i'd be genuinely interested to hear it.
> 
> The insurers are forever telling us their charges are based upon risk, when in my example that was demonstrably, absolutely that was not the case. So what did drive the rise in premium?


Maybe they just bottled because you were a pig! 
PS charges are always based on risk ....plus what they can get away with. 
Example MSE has pointed out recently that if you leave it to the last minute to look for insurance then you will pay significantly more. Don't quote me he (the beloved Martin) said so. 



Drago said:


> I had empirical data that the risk of loss, damage, or injury was lower than my previous address. I wasn't insured for any thing else, and all the criteria they regard as risk were reduced.
> 
> Where is the misunderstanding? Please, feel free to expand upon the misunderstanding. The consumer experts at the BBC couldn't identify the misunderstanding, and neither can I. Risk provably reduces, numbers to prove it, yet prices rise - no latitude for misunderstanding there.
> 
> Your final sentence is correct if all companies behave in a logical, market driven fashion. Unfortunately, insurers do not, as the rampant abuse of hire car charges to which they all are guilty will attest. They're driven my profit opportunity, no matter how illogical it may ultimately be, and how unsustainable or dangerous to the long-term health of the industry it may be. The idea of maintaining a stable and sustainable market using established business practice to tap into legitimate market forces and trends is alien to them. All they want is maximum nickel and dime now. Today. And to Hell with tomorrow.


----------



## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

slowmotion said:


> Capitalism actually!


Charging people who are perceived to have "loads of money " is Socialism!


----------



## slowmotion (30 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Charging people with "loads of money " perceived obviously is Socialism!


I think that we can both agree that we both get royally stiffed by the ragged spivs in the insurance trade.


----------



## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

slowmotion said:


> I think that we can both agree that we both get royally stiffed by the ragged spivs in the insurance trade.


I may disagree with you the day my house burns down...and they pay up!
An ex friend says the same thing as you, he has deliberately driven two cars into trees flooded his house AND I have just heard his car caught fire? I have no idea wherever the latest was fraud but really.


----------



## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

PS tsb cycle insurance £28 a year for loss of any bike up to £3500. No specific lock needed (not gold level) any where in the world. BARGAIN!!


----------



## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I can offer the same for Bulb


My daughter sent me a £75 refer a friend link for bulb. I got £75 and she got £75 AND SHE REFUSED TO GIVE ME ANY OF HER £75. Outrageous its normal to offer at least £25 for using a link but no she had to play the daughter card! Without the £75 off I am looking at a £24 a month bill. (No gas)


----------



## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> My electric has recently gone up to around that too.  Still using storage heaters as I don’t want the upheaval of getting gas in.


What do you mean the upheaval? I have heard they can charge staggering amounts of money just to bring the mains 20yards. So much it would be cheaper to stay on economy 7 radiators


----------



## Shadow121 (30 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Socialism?


On an even more rudimentary level, I don’t know anyone who had or were involved in
an rtc and yet every year the insurance company twists the knife for all they can get,
and nothing is done about it, why, because banks financial institutes and insurance
brokers can afford to control their markets, and we can’t afford to fight back, especially
in regard to car insurance, because when we refuse to pay it because we are being ripped
off, then we break the law, so between price fixing and the law we are screwed.


----------



## Mo1959 (30 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> What do you mean the upheaval? I have heard they can charge staggering amounts of money just to bring the mains 20yards. So much it would be cheaper to stay on economy 7 radiators


Floorboards up, etc to install the plumbing. I don't actually mind the storage heaters too much to be honest. I know they are maybe not quite as controllable as gas, but at least if you have a power cut they stay warm for a long time.


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## Notafettler (30 Aug 2019)

As long as the power cut takes place after you have "filled up" your radiators. It always seemed to happen during the night when I had them so never really benefited.


----------



## vickster (30 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> My daughter sent me a £75 refer a friend link for bulb. I got £75 and she got £75 AND SHE REFUSED TO GIVE ME ANY OF HER £75. Outrageous its normal to offer at least £25 for using a link but no she had to play the daughter card! Without the £75 off I am looking at a £24 a month bill. (No gas)



But you got £75 for doing nothing (except presumably getting a cheaper deal)


----------



## DCBassman (31 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I do Wah for 2-3 days a week


Another eejit who read that and suffered an immediate earworm attack!


----------



## Smudge (31 Aug 2019)

The thing with energy suppliers, is to never trust their estimate of what you monthly payments will be in a quote. Always look at the costs of unit rate price and any standing charges and compare with your current supplier. Also some quotes will include vat and some wont. Then there's different rates that are dependant on how much you use.
You have to do a bit of work yourself with these quotes to get a correct price comparison, the suppliers hope you cant be arsed to work it out, so they can blind you with their often complicated pricing structures.

Ovo, have recently told me about their price rises, so i've dumped them and got a better deal with Coop energy for my leccy. My gas has been with Better Energy for quite a few years now, and even with a recent small price rise, they've still been the cheapest for me to date.


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## Notafettler (3 Sep 2019)

vickster said:


> But you got £75 for doing nothing (except presumably getting a cheaper deal)


If I used mse I could probably have got an extra £40 (guessing). I have done that before. The person whose link your using gets lots of referral payments. Loads of moneyyy


----------



## Notafettler (3 Sep 2019)

Smudge said:


> The thing with energy suppliers, is to never trust their estimate of what you monthly payments will be in a quote. Always look at the costs of unit rate price and any standing charges and compare with your current supplier. Also some quotes will include vat and some wont. Then there's different rates that are dependant on how much you use.
> You have to do a bit of work yourself with these quotes to get a correct price comparison, the suppliers hope you cant be arsed to work it out, so they can blind you with their often complicated pricing structures.
> 
> Ovo, have recently told me about their price rises, so i've dumped them and got a better deal with Coop energy for my leccy. My gas has been with Better Energy for quite a few years now, and even with a recent small price rise, they've still been the cheapest for me to date.




Surely comparison sites do all the working out for you?
I use mse they send me an email when my deals is coming to end.
Although they don't seem to note that you can leave 49 days early and pay no "fine".
Despite telling you so on their weekly "save a penny deals


----------



## vickster (3 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> If I used mse I could probably have got an extra £40 (guessing). I have done that before. The person whose link your using gets lots of referral payments. Loads of moneyyy


What’s wrong with that? You could equally do the same and benefit. Or you didn’t have to use your daughters referral link but then you would have missed out too. You chose to go that way


----------



## Notafettler (3 Sep 2019)

vickster said:


> What’s wrong with that? You could equally do the same and benefit. Or you didn’t have to use your daughters referral link but then you would have missed out too. You chose to go that way


Obviously I choose to go that way. I was really pointing out you can do better. People like me who only use a relatively small amount of electric are, percentage wise making a major savings. IE check mse


----------



## vickster (3 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Obviously I choose to go that way. I was really pointing out you can do better. People like me who only use a relatively small amount of electric are, percentage wise making a major savings. IE check mse


I did. Very little benefit for me to switch from Bulb who are easy to deal with (£50 saving a year not worth the hassle tbh, especially with companies with poor CS ratings)


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> PS tsb cycle insurance £28 a year for loss of any bike up to £3500. No specific lock needed (not gold level) any where in the world. BARGAIN!!


Sounds good - but don't cover ebikes? ('bike with motor')


----------



## Notafettler (4 Sep 2019)

Are you sure? After all it is classed as bicycle there is no separate class for ebike. Sometimes when dealing with insurance reps you need ask them to go further up the line of command. Or even ring more than once to speak with different advisers. Just thought see what there terms and conditions say. The latter might be best bet.


----------



## youngoldbloke (4 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Are you sure? After all it is classed as bicycle there is no separate class for ebike. Sometimes when dealing with insurance reps you need ask them to go further up the line of command. Or even ring more than once to speak with different advisers. Just thought see what there terms and conditions say. The latter might be best bet.


- I looked at the terms and conditions:
"We will not cover • the excess(es) shown on your schedule; • loss or damage to tyres or accessories unless the pedal cycle is stolen or damaged at the same time; • theft unless the cycle is: a. in your immediate custody and control; b. securely locked to an object that cannot be moved; or c. in a locked building • *any pedal cycle with a motor;* • loss or damage caused by wear and tear, light, weather conditions, damp, rust, wet rot or dry rot or anything that happens gradually; • loss or damage caused by the process of cleaning, washing, repairing or restoring"
- that's why I asked


----------



## mustang1 (4 Sep 2019)

Drago said:


> Indeed. The algorithms they use are very clever. The insurance industries perception of "risk" is far from always a measure of that which genuinely presents a significant risk, but in large part includes a calculation as to how affluent they believe the customer to be, and thus how much they can make them pay.
> 
> I discovered this first hand. 7 years ago I moved almost exactly 1 mile, from an already nice street to a more affluent area. Unsurprisingly, my car insurance went up about 20%. Being a copper at the time I was able to check both the crime and RTC data for both areas, and lo and behold - the new area had lower recorded crime, and lower rates of reported RTC's. Indeed, the only thing that had gone up in my new area was the average salaries.
> 
> ...



Exactly this. It makes me cringe when I phone up to buy something, be it insurance or double glazing or whatever, and the first thing they ask is.my postcode so they can guage how much they can fleece me.


----------



## I like Skol (4 Sep 2019)

I always dodge this by saying 'it doesn't matter, just give me your best price if you want me to buy!'.


----------



## Notafettler (4 Sep 2019)

I like Skol said:


> I always dodge this by saying 'it doesn't matter, just give me your best price if you want me to buy!'.


Fair one for double glazing, not for house insurance and car insurance


----------



## gavroche (28 Sep 2019)

My wife car insurance is due October 6th . Got renewal notice from Halifax for £254 , £30 more than last year. Went on line to Meerkats and found same cover for £184 with Lloyds so guess where she is going to go?


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## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

This is the reason I ride a bike and live on a boat.
£95 a year insurance for my boat, £410 for river license, no rent, free water from taps placed along riverside and at locks, free energy from solar, free cooking and heat from log stove and free logs left laying around thanks to river maintenance crews.
I get to work part time only and still get to buy all my toys.
Sorry for rubbing it in, honest!


----------



## JPBoothy (28 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> This is the reason I ride a bike and live on a boat.
> £95 a year insurance for my boat, £410 for river license, no rent, free water from taps placed along riverside and at locks, free energy from solar, free cooking and heat from log stove and free logs left laying around thanks to river maintenance crews.
> I get to work part time only and still get to buy all my toys.
> Sorry for rubbing it in, honest!


And good luck to you my friend, it sounds like a nice slice of freedom you have going there


----------



## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

JPBoothy said:


> And good luck to you my friend, it sounds like a nice slice of freedom you have going there


The nice slice of freedom came years ago, divorce they call it, lol


----------



## JPBoothy (28 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> The nice slice of freedom came years ago, divorce they call it, lol


Ha Ha, lets hope she doesn't find out where you moor your boat at night!


----------



## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

JPBoothy said:


> Ha Ha, lets hope she doesn't find out where you moor your boat at night!


Another good reason for living on a boat, I can move home as easily as moving a car!


----------



## Smudge (28 Sep 2019)

I lived in my motorhome for a few years around 15 years ago. It was quite an interesting experience and met a lot of people that did this. They call themselves full timers.
Most of the time i was on a caravan site, on a week by week full timer basis. It was a real cheap way to live at only £50 a week including hook up, no council tax or tv licence, plus there was showers and a launderette on site. Plus when i wanted to bugger off touring in my van i obviously wasn't paying any rent.


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## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

Smudge said:


> I lived in my motorhome for a few years around 15 years ago. It was quite an interesting experience and met a lot of people that did this. They call themselves full timers.
> Most of the time i was on a caravan site, on a week by week full timer basis. It was a real cheap way to live at only £50 a week including hook up, no council tax or tv licence, plus there was showers and a launderette on site. Plus when i wanted to bugger off touring in my van i obviously wasn't paying any rent.


Now you can add data only SIM card routers so you can have a computer and Wi-fi too!


----------



## Smudge (28 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> Now you can add data only SIM card routers so you can have a computer and Wi-fi too!



Indeed, i would be doing that if i still lived that life.


----------



## JPBoothy (28 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> Another good reason for living on a boat, I can move home as easily as moving a car!


On a serious note though.. 

Do you have to be selective when choosing a spot to spend a night given that we now seem to be living in a time when people seem to be more aggressive and not afraid of breaking the law? I remember spending several happy holidays cruising the Thames on Hoseasons boats when I was a child but, I'm not sure if I would still be as comfortable to just stop alongside a nice park as we did back then.


----------



## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

JPBoothy said:


> On a serious note though..
> 
> Do you have to be selective when choosing a spot to spend a night given that we now seem to be living in a time when people seem to be more aggressive and not afraid of breaking the law? I remember spending several happy holidays cruising the Thames on Hoseasons boats when I was a child but, I'm not sure if I would still be as comfortable to just stop alongside a nice park as we did back then.


My Akita puts a stop to anyone coming near the boat, they only need to think about walking up the plank and she see’s them off.
I have cctv fitted and automatic lights to catch unwanted visitors too.
I’m from Lewisham so needed all this in my house too, so no extra security than before.


----------



## JPBoothy (28 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> My Akita puts a stop to anyone coming near the boat, they only need to think about walking up the plank and she see’s them off.
> I have cctv fitted and automatic lights to catch unwanted visitors too.
> I’m from Lewisham so needed all this in my house too, so no extra security than before.


Blimey, that ex-wife must be pretty scary if you need all of that 😂


----------



## Skanker (28 Sep 2019)

JPBoothy said:


> Blimey, that ex-wife must be pretty scary if you need all of that 😂


I can’t afford to lose half my sh*t again!


----------



## Drago (30 Sep 2019)

It was worth every penny to get shot of the ex. Being a lot wealthier than me (a director for an electronics firm) I made a fair bit out of the divorce!

Regardless of whatever happens in the future there will be no 3rd Mrs D. I'll just sleep around a lot and remain footloose.


----------



## JPBoothy (30 Sep 2019)

Drago said:


> It was worth every penny to get shot of the ex. Being a lot wealthier than me (a director for an electronics firm) I made a fair bit out of the divorce!
> 
> Regardless of whatever happens in the future there will be no 3rd Mrs D. I'll just sleep around a lot and remain footloose.


I've heard those Spin classes are the place to be


----------



## Skanker (30 Sep 2019)

JPBoothy said:


> I've heard those Spin classes are the place to be


Have you ever tried one? They will break you!
There is absolutely no need to pedal like that, ever!


----------



## JPBoothy (30 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> Have you ever tried one? They will break you!
> There is absolutely no need to pedal like that, ever!


Oh bugger, that could be why I've just had a double hernia operation then


----------



## youngoldbloke (30 Sep 2019)

Skanker said:


> *This is the reason I ride a bike and live on a boat.*
> £95 a year insurance for my boat, £410 for river license, no rent, free water from taps placed along riverside and at locks, free energy from solar, free cooking and heat from log stove and free logs left laying around thanks to river maintenance crews.
> I get to work part time only and still get to buy all my toys.
> Sorry for rubbing it in, honest!


- but we can't ALL live on boats can we? Was reading a 'save the planet ' article the other day about a woman who'd left her city job and now lives off grid in a straw bale house in wildest wales - that's great, but what would happen if we ALL did that? There are stretches of canal around here that have become eyesores due to the endless line of moored houseboats.


----------



## Skanker (30 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - but we can't ALL live on boats can we? Was reading a 'save the planet ' article the other day about a woman who'd left her city job and now lives off grid in a straw bale house in wildest wales - that's great, but what would happen if we ALL did that? There are stretches of canal around here that have become eyesores due to the endless line of moored houseboats.


I still work and I constantly cruise around and move my boat. No one says you have to be lazy and loiter in the same place just because you live on a boat.


----------



## JPBoothy (30 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - but we can't ALL live on boats can we? Was reading a 'save the planet ' article the other day about a woman who'd left her city job and now lives off grid in a straw bale house in wildest wales - that's great, but what would happen if we ALL did that? There are stretches of canal around here that have become eyesores due to the endless line of moored houseboats.


The 'off the grid' bit always appealed to me, but after you made that first internet transaction and gave away your details that is no longer a realistic option unless you bin your phone/lap-top and start keeping your money under the mattress again. 

It is quite scary when you watch movies/tv programmes that show how quickly you can be tracked down by a geek with a computer


----------



## Phaeton (30 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> I may disagree with you the day my house burns down...and they pay up!


But that is the issue, getting them to pay up, they are usually happy to take your money but put as many obstacles in your way to stop having to pay out.


Smudge said:


> Most of the time i was on a caravan site, on a week by week full timer basis. It was a real cheap way to live at only £50 a week including hook up,


As they are now charging £20+ per night for a caravan/motorhome even a 1 man tent these days is £10 a night, how can you get £50 per week.


----------



## Smudge (30 Sep 2019)

Phaeton said:


> But that is the issue, getting them to pay up, they are usually happy to take your money but put as many obstacles in your way to stop having to pay out.
> 
> As they are now charging £20+ per night for a caravan/motorhome even a 1 man tent these days is £10 a night, how can you get £50 per week.



It was a special rate for full timers and it was 16 years ago.


----------



## mjr (30 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - but we can't ALL live on boats can we? Was reading a 'save the planet ' article the other day about a woman who'd left her city job and now lives off grid in a straw bale house in wildest wales - that's great, but what would happen if we ALL did that?


We fark up the planet much more slowly? What do you think would happen?



youngoldbloke said:


> There are stretches of canal around here that have become eyesores due to the endless line of moored houseboats.


How can boats on a canal ever be an eyesore? Do you mean that the boats are being allowed to fall derelict? People let houses fall derelict too and that causes far bigger problems.


----------



## youngoldbloke (30 Sep 2019)

mjr said:


> We fark up the planet much more slowly? What do you think would happen?
> 
> 
> How can boats on a canal ever be an eyesore? Do you mean that the boats are being allowed to fall derelict? People let houses fall derelict too and that causes far bigger problems.


It is a question of scale. There is simply not enough room for us all to move to mid Wales, or moor our converted barge at the canal-side.


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## mjr (30 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> It is a question of scale. There is simply not enough room for us all to move to mid Wales, or moor our converted barge at the canal-side.


Are you sure? How big is the national average house now and how big are those straw houses and boats? Stuff I've seen like that often seems smaller than many houses.


----------



## youngoldbloke (30 Sep 2019)

mjr said:


> Are you sure? How big is the national average house now and how big are those straw houses and boats? Stuff I've seen like that often seems smaller than many houses.


I'm not talking size but numbers. Fine for limited numbers of people to choose to live like this, but not hundreds of thousands of us.


----------



## mjr (30 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'm not talking size but numbers. Fine for limited numbers of people to choose to live like this, but not hundreds of thousands of us.


Sorry I was going on what you wrote. If it's not that there's "not enough room" then what is the problem you forsee?

The main problem I see is we'd have to find good ways to recycle our current big on-grid brick houses. Other than that, more people treading more lightly on the planet doesn't look like it's got that many drawbacks.


----------



## Drago (1 Oct 2019)

The entire population of the world can stand on the IoW with space to spare, so I expect there would be little physical difficulty with the entire UK moving to Wales. It might not be a very pleasant scenario though.

In the order of 2/3 of the nations population choose to live in urban areas, so theres little prospect of everyone suddenly moving to a remote, rural area (not that they would be remote rural areas any more if that happened). I expect that most folk are happy enough to get up. eat breakfast, drive to work, drive home, eat dinner, go to bed, and don't give the banality of urban living any real thought. Indeed, a hardcore actually love it.


----------



## I like Skol (1 Oct 2019)

Getting back on topic!

My OVO fixed deal ended a few days ago and lazyness on my part meant I hadn't initiated a swap beforehand.
I have now. Switching to Avro for a 12month fixed price plan that will see me saving approx £500/yr compared to the standard rate OVO price and close to £150 against the best offer price OVO can give me.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the OVO rates seem to have improved now I am at the point of leaving. I'm sure the offer wasn't so good when they were trying to get me to sign up a couple of months ago....


----------



## icowden (3 Oct 2019)

Have you thought of Bulb? I really like them. They tend to have a good price and give fair notice of adjustments (up and down) to their prices.
If you want to give them a whirl I can give you my referral code for £50 off ;-)


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## vickster (4 Oct 2019)

vickster said:


> I can offer the same for Bulb


Nice try @icowden ...I got in there first well upthread in post #47


----------



## Skibird (20 Dec 2019)

I'm just looking to change electricity suppliers and home insurance, before I go down the money supermarket/uswitch route, does anyone have any recommendations or ref codes for anyone...………...……...only if they are good though.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## vickster (20 Dec 2019)

Skibird said:


> I'm just looking to change electricity suppliers and home insurance, before I go down the money supermarket/uswitch route, does anyone have any recommendations or ref codes for anyone...………...……...only if they are good though.
> Thanks in advance.


I use Bulb, very happy. PMd a £50 referral link


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## derrick (20 Dec 2019)

The older I get the easier it is to save. I don't spend like I used to. I don't eat or drink the amount I did when I was younger.


----------



## BoldonLad (20 Dec 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Neither of those came up on the Martin Lewis energy club site, why is that?



I think, ML site may exclude small suppliers, who MAY be considered at risk of collapse. Do they fit that description, perhaps?


----------



## BoldonLad (20 Dec 2019)

fossyant said:


> The hot tub at ours adds about £1 a day, and don't mention the lads gaming PC. Our gas is just £40 a month, but electric about £160.



£61/month Gas and Electric. Two people, four bedroom detached house. No Hot Tub, no Tumble Dryer, all of the other gubbins (I think) ie Gas Central Heating, TV, Computers, lights, Sound System, Electric Oven ... etc That is with Eon.

Car is not so relevant, because it depends on individual history, car make/model etc, but, for what it is worth Renault Captur 1.5dci, myself and mrs only, over 9 years claim free, £227pa The bad news is, on looking for that information, I noticed it is due in February, so, I will shortly be on the Comparison Sites, could have done without being reminded of that, just yet!


----------



## gbb (21 Dec 2019)

Skanker said:


> Have you ever tried one? They will break you!
> There is absolutely no need to pedal like that, ever!


Not really relevant to the topic but when I was at my peak I'd do 2 hours in the hotel on a gym bike and work hard.
A guy came in and absolutely punished his machine, going like crazy, made me look like an amateur. Respect, but blimey.....horses for courses I suppose.


----------



## Notafettler (7 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> The older I get the easier it is to save. I don't spend like I used to. I don't eat or drink the amount I did when I was younger.


Try harder, it's not that difficult.


----------



## Notafettler (7 Jan 2020)

vickster said:


> I use Bulb, very happy. PMd a £50 referral link




I use bulb got the link from daughter £75 each. I pointed out if I went to a mse forum the refer would give me £50 hint hint, she told me to sod off!
I use about £25 a month electric I am only paying them a tenner once I use up the £75 I will go for a cheaper deal somewhere else. I am such a slag!


----------



## derrick (7 Jan 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Try harder, it's not that difficult.


I also do not have a mortgage.


----------



## vickster (7 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> I also do not have a mortgage.


Expensive holidays can put a satisfying dent in finances  (unless you’re a multi millionaire/billionaire I guess)


----------



## Notafettler (7 Jan 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Try harder, it's not that difficult.





derrick said:


> I also do not have a mortgage.


Now you have no excuse whatsoever get to the pub followed by a takeaway.... no an expensive restaurant. GO


----------



## derrick (7 Jan 2020)

vickster said:


> Expensive holidays can put a satisfying dent in finances  (unless you’re a multi millionaire/billionaire I guess)


Never done expensive holidays. Just lots of good ones.


----------



## Notafettler (7 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> Never done expensive holidays. Just lots of good ones.


Are you sure your definition of good holiday isn't just a cheap one?
Going down to your shed at the bottom of the garden isn't really a holiday....in my opinion!


----------



## derrick (7 Jan 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Are you sure your definition of good holiday isn't just a cheap one?
> Going down to your shed at the bottom of the garden isn't really a holiday....in my opinion!


Not really interested in your opinion.


----------



## vickster (7 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> Never done expensive holidays. Just lots of good ones.


Guess it depends on your definition of expensive too


----------



## Notafettler (7 Jan 2020)

derrick said:


> Not really interested in your opinion.


Oops have I hurt your feelings?
Well you've hurt mine!


----------



## Drago (14 Jan 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Are you sure your definition of good holiday isn't just a cheap one?
> Going down to your shed at the bottom of the garden isn't really a holiday....in my opinion!


Depends on your perspective. If an annual shed break allows the holiday maker to save sufficient money to retire in their 40's then that person has the rest of their life as one long holiday.

Conversely, a sun bunny may get a week or two every year somewhere or other, but may end up working into their late 60's or beyond to pay for the habit.

From where I'm sitting, in my armchair designed for prematurely retired people of leisure, the Butlins inspired shed vacation seems a most splendid option. If you prefer spending your life up a chimney or down a pit then the expensive holiday may be for you.

So you enjoy your annual 2 weeks annual break in whatever place it is you fancy, and Derrick and I will enjoy our 52 weeks annual chillax with equal relish.


----------



## Rusty Nails (14 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> Depends on your perspective. If an annual shed break allows the holiday maker to save sufficient money to retire in their 40's then that person has the rest of their life as one long holiday.
> 
> Conversely, a sun bunny may get a week or two every year somewhere or other, but may end up working into their late 60's or beyond to pay for the habit.
> 
> ...



The money saved by shed breaks for around 20 years is not going to allow anyone to retire in their 40s, who hasn't won the lottery, worked in the city, or retired from one of the uniformed services, let alone people who do mundane jobs.


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## itboffin (14 Jan 2020)

i'm up for saving money by switching in fact one of my customers that's their business model, i'm lucky my good lady takes care of most of all that, we're also sufficiently old but not too old that anything car related is cheap, what's not cheap are those holidays and we dont want them to be a compromise as both of us have lots most of our families to the big C or sudden heart attacks, none of which we're due to being unfit or unhealthy.

Switch energy, insurance etc every year is a total ball ache, but dont let that put you off, the potential savings are huge over a lifetime.

Mind you i'm dreading the end of Jan. as all of my significant necessary agreements are up for renewal, same BS every year where we have to switch due to the short sightedness of businesses to realise keeping customers is far more cost efficient than winning new ones.

yawn!


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## Drago (15 Jan 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> The money saved by shed breaks for around 20 years is not going to allow anyone to retire in their 40s, who hasn't won the lottery, worked in the city, or retired from one of the uniformed services, let alone people who do mundane jobs.


I managed it through savings and doing materially well out of a divorce, and due to a bit of luck (although I'm a firm believer that you make your own luck) I ended up owning 2 houses outright so have a steady rental 8ncome. I could have no pension at all and still - barely - have stopped when I did. 

Think about it. I've never had car finance, so that's 3 and a half grand or more I've saved, each and every single year of my adult life - if we assume 300 sovs a month is fairly typical, that is £125,000 that I haven't spent that the typical working car driving adult has chucked away. That's gone into my bank.

Multiply that by all the other things people spend their money on, and suddenly in my early 40's I find that I have a lot, and I mean a lot, of liquidity. That gave me something to think about sat in my sun lounger on the patio for 2 weeks every year. Think about that next time you sign up for a new car, holiday, mobile phone contract, gym membership, etc, etc. The choice is yours and no one elses.

It's a lifetime of undisciplined spending habits that delays retirement for a significant number of people, but they're too close to the problem to see it and blame the fact that they weren't in the forces or uniform services for having to work so late in life instead. Well I've news for them - they're simply wrong.


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## vickster (15 Jan 2020)

Doesn't your wife still work though? Of course, she may very much enjoy doing so and have no desire to stop 

Frankly, I'd be bored stupid if I retired (and I enjoy the social aspect of work, some of my best friends are or have been colleagues). A couple of years ago I did decide to work 4 days a week, which gives me plenty of time for hobbies and life admin and loads of money for holidays and ample savings  I've never had a car loan either and I just paid off my mortgage


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## BoldonLad (15 Jan 2020)

vickster said:


> Doesn't your wife still work though? Of course, she may very much enjoy doing so.
> 
> Frankly, I'd be bored stupid if I retired. A couple of years ago I did decide to work 4 days a week, which gives me plenty of time for hobbies and life admin and loads of money for holidays and ample savings  I've never had a car loan either and I just paid off my mortgage



No, although I do regularly suggest to her that, she may, feel much more fulfilled if she got a job. So far all I get in return is an answer ending in "off"


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## vickster (15 Jan 2020)

My comment wasn't directed at you, but the previous poster. But all good


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## Electric_Andy (15 Jan 2020)

I agree with Drago, there are loads of things that we all want and think we need, but we really don't _need_ all of them. Making small changes can often build up over time. I made a conscious effort to not buy food at work, some weeks I was spending up to £15 in M&S so i now take food to work and keep fruit and rice cakes in my draw as a back-up. That's potentially £60/month saved.

I'm signed up to l**k after my b1lls which only saves me about £1/month from what I can see, but I don't have to do any work or make any calls.

I also try to sell one item on ebay per month, if I don't use it of course. My phone bill is £13/month. I know people who have the latest handsets and unlimited minutes, who spend £60/month. Who needs to talk all the time? I have used 16 minutes of call time so far in January! My handset is cracked but still works fine, so I'll keep it as long as it works, it's lasted 4 years so far.

I also drive a rubbish car, but it's cheap to run. I'd love a better car and more toys, but now I've got older I know they won't bring me any more joy once the novelty has worn off. So I try to get internal enjoyment from experiences.

I am lucky as well though, my parents give me a weeks holiday in Cornwall every year (they come too). I would not pay for a foreign holiday unless it was dirt cheap. For me, it's who you're with that makes for a good time. And a holiday needn't be going away either. If you're off work and enjoying something, that's a holiday to me, whether it's working on a project in the garage or garden, or just sitting in your pants watching telly. Time enjoyed is not time wasted.


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## vickster (15 Jan 2020)

I'm not that focused on having enough money for old age to be honest.
I do pay into a pension and have ample savings (which increase month on month). I'd rather enjoy the money and life (including seeing the world, visiting friends overseas) - while I'm (relatively) fit and (relatively) young.
I've not bought a new (to me) car for 6 years (no point, I do about 4000 miles a year tops
I'm in the fortunate position of having no dependants and am well paid . Yes, I'll probably die a spinster but I'll still have lots of friends and will have enjoyed myself getting there  I have no ambition to live to 100!

I do still do due diligence when car and home insurances are due (that said, I'm now with Aviva Plus for both who do not charge existing customers more than new, with the added bonus of 20% off because I have an ancient pension pot with them from an old job) and I do shop around for most things that I buy that cost more than a quid or two

Others want different things from life which is absolutely fine and should be respected


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## Smudge (15 Jan 2020)

All my motorcycling mates take the piss out of me for always having a flask of coffee in the tail pack on my motorcycle. But then they moan about paying £2.50 for a takeaway coffee at whatever bike meet we end up at. Many of them will have 2 or 3 of these takeaway coffees throughout our rideout of the day.
I dont mind spending on fish & chips, or whatever meal we have.... but sod paying £7.50 for a few coffees.


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## Notafettler (15 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> Depends on your perspective. If an annual shed break allows the holiday maker to save sufficient money to retire in their 40's then that person has the rest of their life as one long holiday.
> 
> Conversely, a sun bunny may get a week or two every year somewhere or other, but may end up working into their late 60's or beyond to pay for the habit.
> 
> ...


Haven't worked since I was 50. 2 weeks away is not the difference between retiring at 40 and 67. Sitting in a shed isn't a holiday. But I have just built (laboured may be more accurate) a "garden room ". At the top of my terraced garden. You go through a small shed and you are in a room with a raised vegbeds on 3 sides, double glazed with a flat heavily insulated roof. The rural view are magnificent.....still not a holiday.


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## Rusty Nails (15 Jan 2020)

Drago said:


> I managed it through savings and doing materially well out of a divorce, and due to a bit of luck (although I'm a firm believer that you make your own luck) I ended up owning 2 houses outright so have a steady rental 8ncome. I could have no pension at all and still - barely - have stopped when I did.
> 
> Think about it. I've never had car finance, so that's 3 and a half grand or more I've saved, each and every single year of my adult life - if we assume 300 sovs a month is fairly typical, that is £125,000 that I haven't spent that the typical working car driving adult has chucked away. That's gone into my bank.
> 
> ...



Early 40s! I always thought, from your posts, that you were closer to 60! Retirement ages people.

I retired early at 50, totally due to being in the right place at the right time, but soon realised I was too young to just potter around and started back as a self-employed business adviser where I could work part-time.

My attitude has always been to make some provision for future finances, but to still spend as much as I could afford on things I enjoyed at the time.

I am intrigued that the average working car owner spends £300 per month on car finance. Is that total spend including depreciation or interest on the finance deal?


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## Landsurfer (15 Jan 2020)

fossyant said:


> I've still got the old car. Just thought I'd see what benefit my age now has.. PS It wouldn't fit bikes in well. Tempted with a pick up one day.



Had pickups for the last 15 years, Hilux, Rangers and Isuzu's .... Recently replaced the latest pickup with a Ford Transit Custom 9 seater minibus. I can get 3 bikes in across the vehicle without taking wheels off and its a joy to drive .... but not an Auto like all my pickups where .... £15K with 14000 miles on the clock and sexy alloys .... love it.


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## Notafettler (15 Jan 2020)

Still not a holiday! Nice though.


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## johnblack (16 Jan 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> Had pickups for the last 15 years, Hilux, Rangers and Isuzu's .... Recently replaced the latest pickup with a Ford Transit Custom 9 seater minibus. I can get 3 bikes in across the vehicle without taking wheels off and its a joy to drive .... but not an Auto like all my pickups where .... £15K with 14000 miles on the clock and sexy alloys .... love it.


I've had a few Caravelles and last year had a Kombi Van for a few months, possibly the best vehicle I've had, absolutely loved driving it. Not retired yet but def. think that's what I'll have when I stop working.


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