# Right to repair



## ebikeerwidnes (1 Jul 2021)

So - the 'Right to Repair' act has now come in

Now - I have a Raleigh Motus - hence Bosh battery, motor and controller

so - if the battery starts to get a bit old - as it will - will Bosch give out a method of allowing 3rd parties to recell it??

and it the motor breaks after warranty expires - will they publish enough info for a 3rd party expert to repair it ???

more importantly - will they do it voluntarily - and if they do not can they be forced???

anyone know???


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## numbnuts (1 Jul 2021)

i have no idea, but I have just paid £400 for a new one, one company wanted to charge me £395 just to recell it, so I went for the £400 as it was 6ah more so now I have 17ah = more miles


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## Drago (1 Jul 2021)

3rd parties can recell it, but only the few willing to buy the Bosch licences for the pooters. The software will always remain proprietary and will have to be paid for.


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## ebikeerwidnes (1 Jul 2021)

Drago said:


> 3rd parties can recell it, but only the few willing to buy the Bosch licences for the pooters. The software will always remain proprietary and will have to be paid for.


Thanks

for future reference do you know which ones have paid out the dosh??


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## welsh dragon (1 Jul 2021)

I was looking at the cost of repair to my spare battery But it was going to cost me more than buying a new one.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2021)

Some acid, a bit of metal, and some wires and your bike should be good as new.


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## ebikeerwidnes (1 Jul 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Some acid, a bit of metal, and some wires and your bike should be good as new.


What kind of acid????


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> What kind of acid????





Gather your materials.
Fill the plastic cup roughly 3/4 full with soda.
Make sure the soda can is completely empty.
Cut a strip of aluminum from the soda can.
Sand the aluminum strip (optional).
Place the strips into the solution.
Attach lead wires to metal strips.
Test the battery.


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## carpiste (1 Jul 2021)

From what I read it is law so they will have to comply I guess. Whether that is themselves or third party business.
Either way it can only be good for the consumer.


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## gbb (2 Jul 2021)

It might be, as with batteries, that the costs of repair make it prohibitive. The fact is it's still repairable but no-one is going to do it because if the cost. Company can therefore claim it IS repairable surely ?
Im not suggesting thats fair as far as the consumer is concerned but that may be the reality.


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## gbb (2 Jul 2021)

Looking at a quick article on the subject, manufacturers of white goods in particular, tvs, 'home displays'what ever ghey may be...but excluding laptops, computers etc, will have to supply spares at the latest from 2 years of a products arrival and 7 to 10 years after its discontinuation.

And as i alluded above, the cost may be prohibitive even if they are available and may not be available to the public acording to the article.

Bikes and components (as well as almost everything else you buy) arent mentioned although hopefully may follow in the future


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## ericmark (3 Jul 2021)

Interesting, so the government will need to allow quartz bulbs for lamps which can't take LED for 7 years after the lamps no longer made? It seems that's not the case, and quartz bulbs are being discontinued. So those with G9 bulbs have a problem.

Seems there are going to be exceptions, it does seem cars now use some sort of common computer connection and it no longer needs dealer only to reset engine management. 

However with an e-bike I note mine I can alter to use twist grip control by pressing up/down buttons together and scrolling through the options, so I can make the e-bike illegal for UK use without need of a tool, not sure if this is really what should be allowed? I found out how to change from kph to mph, but so many other options.

What I want to try is how well will the walk assist work with the Bosch to allow motor to push one without peddling? Too steep here to really test it out, but once third party assess permitted then would be easy I suspect to alter so can ride without peddling. Mine already has that option, and it is so tempting to enable it.


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## gbb (3 Jul 2021)

Cynical me, I suspect we are all hopeful that we will have items that are manufactured so they are repairable...but in reality, take washing machine drums, nowadays it's common to have one piece drums with integrated bearings, one of the most common things a DIYer used to be able to fix, nowadays not really possible due to design. The hope would be they stop that kind of thing....but why would they ? It's obviously cheaper for them, and all they have to do is have is have a drum/bearing available as spares, which of course is prohibitive and still would be, so they met the criteria but we're no better off.
And what level of spares should be available ?...everything on a machine ?
It's something that's got everyone really excited,but I suspect the reality will be quite different. I hope im wrong of course.


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## ericmark (3 Jul 2021)

I have a manual which came with my e-bike, it clearly came as a kit of parts, although I got is second hand so already assembled, but the important bits, how to set to MPH instead of KPH, what the brake pads are called and how to order replacements, nothing. Or even a warning about what happens if the disc brakes are not adjusted. I found out the hard way on a previous bike with cable disc brakes.

When I did my cycling proficiency in the 1950's we had brake blocks, and the main thing was to fit them right way around so the rubber did not shoot out. And if the brakes were bad you realised when doing light braking, unlike the modern disc where they slow you down fine, but then do not work any better no matter how hard you squeeze the lever. 

The whole reason why the Landrover was loved world wide was you could repair it. Not so today, it needs a computer plugging in to work out what has gone wrong. But no excuse with a push bike, one should be able to carry all you need to keep it going.


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Jul 2021)

My original ebike was a Powacycle and they were very helpful when I needed spare parts
My new on has Bosch ebike stuff - I haven;t needed any spares yet but people on here seem to think they are not so helpful

And, of course, as far as the battery is concerned - they can cite safety as the reason


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## Oldhippy (3 Jul 2021)

Whilst in theory it is an excellent idea returning to repair and reuse as was the norm years ago, I suspect manufacturers will consider it another way to squeeze extra cash from products.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jul 2021)

Hilights why the standard bike with gear cables and downtube or bar end shifters and stand alone brakes and spoked wheels is great. It’s simple enough that pretty much anyone can repair and replace parts on their bike. But mostly it just keeps working for decades other than worn out parts.


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## ericmark (3 Jul 2021)

Can you still buy handle bars with the bearing for the rod brakes? Can you still get the wheels even?


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## Blue Hills (3 Jul 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Hilights why the standard bike with gear cables and downtube or bar end shifters and stand alone brakes and spoked wheels is great. It’s simple enough that pretty much anyone can repair and replace parts on their bike. But mostly it just keeps working for decades other than worn out parts.


exactly - with bikes folk can ensure that they can ride pretty much to the end of their days as long as they stick to simple stuff. Rapidfires up to 9 speed won't be a realistic problem either I feel.
Of course some folk like their stuff to be cutting edge/different/not used by the crowd .....


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## Drago (3 Jul 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Thanks
> 
> for future reference do you know which ones have paid out the dosh??


Sadly my friend, no. Ive never had to have one recelled, but they are out there.


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## Pale Rider (5 Jul 2021)

I'm not aware of any UK companies who can recell Bosch batteries, like Apple, the system is locked down.

Some sites look promising, but when you delve into them Bosch stuff is usually excluded.

As a company, Bosch undertake to make all spares available for at least seven years after the item drops out of their original equipment catalogue.

In the case of a battery that would only be a new one, currently about £700.

A lot of money, but were recelling possible it would be about £500.


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## CXRAndy (5 Jul 2021)

Bosch wont be using anything special re their batteries, just good quality branded Samsung/Panasonic/LG etc. Time spent researching, investing in a spot welder and a new pack of batteries will save you ££££s


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## Badger_Boom (5 Jul 2021)

ericmark said:


> Seems there are going to be exceptions, it does seem cars now use some sort of common computer connection and it no longer needs dealer only to reset engine management.





ericmark said:


> The whole reason why the Landrover was loved world wide was you could repair it. Not so today, it needs a computer plugging in to work out what has gone wrong.



Although on-board computers are a curse for all home mechanics, most car manufacturers adopted a standard plug system for fault code reading about 20 years ago. I have a cheapo (£50) pocket-sized plug in device for my modern(ish) Land Rover that lets me read the codes and work out what it thinks is wrong with it before I decide if I need to bother a garage. It also works on our even older VW.


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## ebikeerwidnes (5 Jul 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Bosch wont be using anything special re their batteries, just good quality branded Samsung/Panasonic/LG etc. Time spent researching, investing in a spot welder and a new pack of batteries will save you ££££s


Apparently the batteries can be replaced OK but if you do then the BMS will have bricked itself - or something like that.
Bosch say it is for safety reasons because things can go badly wrong if you don;t know what you are doing or make a mistake. Personally I think they should allow professionals to have the information to refurbish the batteries without triggering the electronics to brick themselves - but, of course, they have a profit incentive to keep such information to themselves.


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## CXRAndy (5 Jul 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Apparently the batteries can be replaced OK but if you do then the BMS will have bricked itself - or something like that.
> Bosch say it is for safety reasons because things can go badly wrong if you don;t know what you are doing or make a mistake. Personally I think they should allow professionals to have the information to refurbish the batteries without triggering the electronics to brick themselves - but, of course, they have a profit incentive to keep such information to themselves.


Thats why I will never buy a Bosch ebike. I dont like being held to manufacturers for such relatively simple electronics


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## Drago (5 Jul 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> Although on-board computers are a curse for all home mechanics, most car manufacturers adopted a standard plug system for fault code reading about 20 years ago. I have a cheapo (£50) pocket-sized plug in device for my modern(ish) Land Rover that lets me read the codes and work out what it thinks is wrong with it before I decide if I need to bother a garage. It also works on our even older VW.


I bought a Volvo specific one that does the engine but also covers transmission, ABS, stability system, aircon, multiplexed accessories, etc. It can also read, clear, initialise, program and calibrate new components and modules. It was £130, but has paid for itself 3 or 4 times over.


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## classic33 (5 Jul 2021)

ericmark said:


> Can you still buy handle bars with the bearing for the rod brakes? Can you still get the wheels even?


Westwood rims are still available, as are the handlebars with the brake levers mounted. Even the brake levers are still available.


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## keithmac (6 Jul 2021)

ericmark said:


> Interesting, so the government will need to allow quartz bulbs for lamps which can't take LED for 7 years after the lamps no longer made? It seems that's not the case, and quartz bulbs are being discontinued. So those with G9 bulbs have a problem.
> 
> Seems there are going to be exceptions, it does seem cars now use some sort of common computer connection and it no longer needs dealer only to reset engine management.
> 
> ...



That's OBD2 Diagnostics and manufacturers were forced to allow 3rd party access due to emissions regulations (anybody should be able to diagnose and repair faults that negatively affect the emissions output).

Main Dealer diagnostics are far superior mind, I have the Ford kit for our Kuga (IDS) same as Drago has Volvo specific kit.

Normally OBD2 just lets you read and reset DCTs, factory kit connects to High and Medium speed CanBus lines etc to read all modules.


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## CXRAndy (7 Jul 2021)

There are many aftermarket scan tools, the higher end just as comprehensive in functionality as the OE kit. 


I have an USA import vehicle and it needed a code reset via Fords diag software. 

I purchased a Chinese kit which did exactly the same job but for far far less.


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## Badger_Boom (7 Jul 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> There are many aftermarket scan tools, the higher end just as comprehensive in functionality as the OE kit.
> 
> 
> I have an USA import vehicle and it needed a code reset via Fords diag software.
> ...


Me too. Mine is a pretty comprehensive reader and will reset codes as well as do some useful functions like encoding new keys. It doesn't do the more complex and clever reprogramming and adjustments that a more expensive one would, but I tend to leave that kind of thing to the professionals.


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