# Smackhead Express - Raleigh Routier



## wafter (22 Jul 2020)

I happened upon this recently on my travels.

In keeping with what has become a depressingly regular sight, this appears to be another nicked bike mercilessly ridden into the ground by the city's burgeoning homeless population before being discarded when it finally became unable to carry on 

I've checked the frame number and make / model against Bike Register and have got no hits, as well as putting a couple of "found" notices up on local FB pages and Gumtree. If you think it might be yours by all means drop me a PM with the frame no. and obviously if it matches you're welcome to come and collect it.

This poor example is in surprisingly good nick considering the abuse it's been subjected to; suggesting someone at some point cared about it. The only real damage to the frame is a couple of gashes on the RHS of the down tube and the paint seems otherwise very good (and resilient - I suspect due to pre-dating various bits of environmental legislation). Unfortunately the bars are bent, while the back tyre is completely shredded; totally disintegrating in places and having evidently caught on the mudguard at some point bending it severely. The bike has apparently still been ridden like this, which has pretty much shafted the rear wheel too 

I've done a bit of homework and it appears this was a low-mid range offering from the '80s, touted as a general tourer or utility bike. The 57cm/ 22.5" frame appears to be gas pipe (none of your fancy Reynolds tube here) and the whole bike weighs in at a portly 14.35kg as received. It has a 2x5 drivetrain with 50/40 chainring, 14-28 cassette and sachs friction-shifter-based components. Oddly (?) the square-taper cranks appear to be a diminutive 165mm long. Wheels are 700x21c and chromed steel with 36 spokes. The bike's fitted with chrome mudguards, panier rack and kickstand, apparently as standard.

On paper this would make an excellent utility bike (for when I want to cover longer journeys / tackle greater gradients than on the ofo without having to worry about using one of my "nice" bikes) however looking at the cost of appropriate bits on ebay doing it up looks like it'll cost more than I can currently justify. Irritatingly I recently flogged a similar (but tattier) Notts-build non-Raleigh for very little money, whose wheels and bars would probably have gone straight on 

Equally I love the idea of building up the old frame with newer 9/10/11 speed components with STIs and again recently sold my old Giant which would have yielded a wealth of 8sp parts because I thought I couldn't justify the cost and hassle of sourcing an approriate frame as well as storing another bike. What are people's thoughts on this route? I understand some will consider it sacriledge and I generally like to keep things original, but since it's not a particularly high end / desirable model (and needs some bits replacing anyway) I guess this is less of a concern.

So there we go. I'm not going to rush into anything currently; for now it can sit under a tarp in the back garden until I have a better idea of how to proceed.. so please don't expect an interesting project any time soon! I'm also not sure if I can manage with the frame as it's a little bigger than I'd like; I measured the reach and stack earlier and it comes in at a little larger and more aggressive than what I'm currently riding so it might yet get punted on, although I'd prefer it to be in working order even then.

In the meantime I'd welcome any more info anyone might have on this model and thoughts on the pitfalls on fitting newer components (specifically STI shifters) - I'm aware that the axle spacing at the rear should be 120mm while the current spec for 8sp+ rim-braked road bikes is 130mm... but I suspect I could spread the dropouts a bit since it appears to be boggo non-heat-treated steel. Can anyone tell me about bottom bracket specs on this sort of bike please?

Equally if you might have a suitable rear wheel / set, rear mudguard and / or bars that you want to get rid of by all means drop me a PM


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## All uphill (22 Jul 2020)

Nice bike @wafter 

Do you like it, does it fit and do you have a use for it?

If so don't add up the likely costs, doing that will just make you miserable.

Replace the rear wheel and tyre with used parts then go from there, one part at a time.


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## FrankCrank (23 Jul 2020)

Possibly had a front end shunt?


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## wafter (23 Jul 2020)

All uphill said:


> Nice bike @wafter
> 
> Do you like it, does it fit and do you have a use for it?
> 
> ...


Thanks 

In answer to your questions - yes, maybe and perhaps...

If I do fix it up it'll have to be on a strict budget as I can't justify spending much. I think you're right about the bits though; will aim to get it working in its current form and tbh as much as I like the idea of fitting current-spec components I think it'd be folly on a frame of this quality.

I got sucked into spending more than I'd planned on the ofo and don't want to go down that route again.



FrankCrank said:


> Possibly had a front end shunt?


Thanks - didn't think of that although did clock the orientation of the forks. A good point but comparing it to images of the same bike from other sources it's hard to tell tbh. I guess if it has it's pretty much game over - any ideas as to how I could check whether this is the case?


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## FrankCrank (23 Jul 2020)

In the first pic the fork looks slightly pushed back, although pictures can be deceptive. Not sure how to really be decisive, or whether it matters. Sorry to muddy the waters.


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## wafter (23 Jul 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> In the first pic the fork looks slightly pushed back, although pictures can be deceptive. Not sure how to really be decisive, or whether it matters. Sorry to muddy the waters.


Indeed; I could see how it might look a little bent but others I've seen look similar, while I guess there's an argument for adding an amount of compliance by sweeping the forks back at the headtube and curving them forwards at the wheel. If I had original specs for trail etc I could have a stab at measuring it, but I don't. I guess I could lash up a plumb line and try to compare it to my other bikes but this wouldn't necessarily tell me a whole lot. 

Thanks for the observation anyway


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## wafter (23 Jul 2020)

Because I can never leave anything alone I had a bit of a fiddle tonght; resulting an a satisfying evening's casual tinkering in the garden with a nice jungle soundtrack 

After concerns over the straightness of the fork I gave it a good coat of looking over and when straight-ahead it doesn't look particularly bent, so I think this has been exaggerated in the image in my original post due to the steering angle. Off came the now redundant speedo mount, cable and magnet, along with the front reflector to gain access to all the spoke nipples.

I found the front wheel to be somewhat buckled, offset to one side by about 5mm and with pretty loose spokes. I'd applied a little penetrating oil to all the nipples a couple of days ago and was relieved to find all but one free to turn; this one eventually giving in after a bit of heat courtesy of the Clipper lighter I also found on the same night I found the bike 

I managed to get the wheel centred in the fork to within maybe 0.5mm (judging by my also-found steel rule checked against the side of the rim and apex of the fork leg) and axial runout on the rim down to around 0.5mm as well - not perfect but absolutely serviceable and so much better than before.

I also trued up the front mudguard relative to the wheel; it's tatty and still has a kink in it but at least now gives the best chance of not fouling anything.

I tried to centre the brakes but the bike was upside down and I couldn't really see what I was doing so didn't go too far.. I think I'm missing a trick as the operation of the caliper seems dependent on the tightness of the nuts on the front (presumably why there are two) so I suspect something else needs to be slackened to allow me to centre the caliper relative to the wheel. I did move the brake blocks to give better engagement with the rim; it all looks positively dangerous so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the efficacy of the brakes if I ever manage to ride it..

Also gave the forks a bit of a clean with some WD40 and was impressed by how resileant the bike's finish is; as well as the thorough internal rust-proofing that appears to have been applied.

I've not fully investigated yet but the fasteners appear to be a mixture of metric and imperial; the seat clamp nut is definitely imperial while the stem clamp allen bolt seems to be metric, as do many of the nuts on the front end although these might just be imperial sizes that happen to be close to a metric equivalents. The nuts on the brake caliper appear to be 10mm, but this would figure as I think they're possibly German (Weinmann rings a bell...?).

After some doubts about the rim size having read how close the old 27" (630mm BSD) standard is compared to 700c (622mm BSD) I was relieved to find the following stamped on the front wheel:






So it's apparently 622x28mm, although measuring the internal width of the battered rear rim suggested 21mm so I suspect the 28mm refers to its external width. Mudguard clearance is generous so hopefully if I ever get it going it'll accommodate some fairly wide rubber.

Finally just for a laugh I put some air in the front tyre; while in better nick than the shredded rear the tread is de-laminating and all the sidewall material has become brittle / is flaking away from the cord beneath. Might be the original tyres for all I know!







As I've worked on the bike I've become more resolute to keep it as original as I can and aim to get it up and running for as little money as possible; so progress is likely to be slow - especially as I'm wary of putting too much work in incase I can't find a suitable replacement rear wheel. I guess I'll also need to swap over the freewheel, which doubtless will require the purchase of another tool...


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## wafter (27 Jul 2020)

A bit more "progress" since this thread is proving so popular 

The state of the rear wheel was irritating me earlier, so I removed what was left of the tyre and tube by snipping the remaining intact steel beads with a pair of side cutters and just pulling the whole lot off without removing the wheel. 

The rim was buckled, spokes loose and has a lot of damage on its outside edges from contact with the road. It's of reasonably uniform width but showing a few outward "bulged" areas and some damage to the braking surfaces. 












I thought I'd have a go at trueing the wheel as I had nowt to lose and I find it quite relaxing. During this process I noticed the hub bearings were loose so removed the wheel to take a closer look. The ball bearings themselves looked OK but the cap that forms the outer race is somewhat scored eccentrically, perhaps in keeping with the hub sitting low relative to the axle due to the sloppy fit. There was also very little grease in there.. 

I couldn't do much with it tonight (and was hampered by a proper downpour) so cleaned up the cap, filled it full of spray grease and put it back together at a more suitable preload. Some roughness can be felt when rotating the axle by hand but the wheel spins freely enough. Depending on what transpires with the wheel I might open it up again, dress down any high spots on the damage and fill it with moly grease when I have some to hand.. 


After the downpour and much rainbow-photographing I refitted the wheel (shamefully with the driver's side washers in the wrong place more than once as I wasn't paying much attention when they were removed). I didn't like the lack of washer between the locknut on the axle and the frame on the NDS (is this normal?) and remembered back to some washers that had recently appeared on my side of the fence in the garden.. Retrieved, one of these fitted perfectly and I think from the witness marks must have been cast-offs from my neighbour's tinkering with his mrs' bike - certainly preferable to the fag butts and hot BBQ fat he's more fond of chucking over the fence 

Again the paint proved itself to be extremely resileant; handling well the impacts from my ham-fisted attempts to get the wheel back in, which weren't helped by the fading light. 

I did a little more spoke adjustment before the light went completely and got the deflection reasonable considering; although there are obviously other areas of damage to attend to and I think the dish is a bit off - I'll probably have another crack tomorrow when I can see. 

The plan is to get the rim as true as possible, belt out the deformed high spots as much as possible, dress down any sharp / significant damage and try fitting the front tyre onto the back as a test, since this is on the cusp of falling apart so expendable. If it physically fits I might put a spare 25c tyre on the front and actually see how the bike rides, and if things are promising might entertain the idea of chucking some cheap, wider rubber on both wheels. 


In other news I found the crank reasonably interesting as the chain guard and big ring are made from one pressing, with an interruption in the teeth for the bridges between the two 







That's all for now; I'm interested to hear any thoughts on how I might best deal with the state of the rear rim.. ideally I'll replace it but am yet to find anything suitable at a justifiable price, and since this is intended to be a budget runaround I'll be content with getting it working, as long as it's safe, reliable and not to horrible to ride.


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## Gunk (27 Jul 2020)

I’d strip the rear wheel completely, carefully knock out the bulge and rebuild it, I’ve done this a few times and they end up pretty rideable for zero expenditure.


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## wafter (28 Jul 2020)

Gunk said:


> I’d strip the rear wheel completely, carefully knock out the bulge and rebuild it, I’ve done this a few times and they end up pretty rideable for zero expenditure.


Thanks - why do you suggest stripping it completely? Tbh I find the prospect of re-lacing it somewhat daunting if I don't have to! 

There are at least two gentle bulges as well as the more acute deformation picture, which I think will have to be got at with a hammer and hard punch or just filed flat. I've had a crack at one of the bulges with a copper mallet with limited success; think I need to acquire a bit of flat hardwood to rest the other side against. I was wondering if a hammer and some brass punches might afford a bit more precision than the mallet.. 

Would be good if I could get it useable without having to spend any money on it (tyres notwithstanding)..


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## wafter (29 Jul 2020)

Another large amount of my life questionably assigned to this bike today...

I finished my stab at trueing the rear wheel, which is a bit all over the place but within acceptable limits, with probably around 1mm runout axially and radially.

I then took it off the bike and knocked seven shades out of it with a hide mallet in an effort to minimise some of the bulges. In total there were probably 4-5 on each side and the process was far from precise. I also ran a fine file over the inner edges of the beads to remove any obviously sharp bits, as well as dressing down any significant local deformation on the brake track in an effort to avoid it shredding the brake blocks. The beads aren't straight but shouldn't cause any issues with tyre mounting. I expect braking at the rear to be "interesting"..

I swapped the dilapidated but intact remaining tyre and tube from the front rim to the rear in anticipation of fitting a 25c Zaffiro I have spare; however halfway through mounting I noticed "only to be mounted on hooked rims" or similar on the sidewall, so since these aren't everything got put back in its box 

Looks like I need to do some learning about different tyre mounting formats..

I also had a go at straightening the mudguard(s) and rear stay, which had taken a hammering thanks to the tyre failure. They're certainly functional now but won't win any beauty contests..

I cleaned the frame up a little in places and removed, cleaned, copper-greased and refitted the stem and seatpost; in the process levelling the seat, setting its height to something more appropriate as well as raising the stem as high as it'll (safely) go to make the ride a bit more relaxed.

Finally I also noticed another frame number on the back of the seatpost tube; relieved to find this not listed on BikeRegister either and have now worked out the bike's DOM at apparently June 1987.

Throughout I keep coming back to how well put together this bike is. Despite being a slightly tatty, heavy, entry-ish level utilitarian model the quality of design, materials, fit and finish seems really good throughout; the fact that it's lasted 33yrs saying something in itself.


I guess the next step is to try and source a tyre or two; which sadly will probably break the seal and mean I have to put my hand in my pocket


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## wafter (1 Aug 2020)

More progress!

Thanks to the clarity afforded by the advice I received in this thread I spent the usual ridiculous amount of time researching tyres. I'd initially hoped to get some fat 40mm-ish efforts on there but a few masurements confirmed this was wishful thinking so I limited myself, somewhat arbirtrairly to 32mm.

After dancing around several options, thoroughly perplexed by the need to weigh up cost, durability, rolling resistance, availability, fit etc I finally settled on a pair of 32mm B'Twin gravel efforts from Decathlon. Funnily enough these didn't come up on their site when searching (the link is from a googling) and I only found them by chance when I popped into the shop to browse in person to make myself feel like I was doing something.

The tyres cost the princely sum of £8ea, plus £3ea for a pair of suitable tubes.. so the bike now owes me £22.

While fitting the front tyre I noticed some bulges in the rims so had to crack out the soft-faced mallet again, but after this there were no issues getting the tyres on the rims. Sadly things went south when attempting to refit the rear wheel as the fatter tyre fouled the mudguard at the chainstays; threatening to prevent it going in all together, and once finally in fouling the knobbly treads to prevent it turning properly 

After a lot of buggering about carefully dressing the guard (opening out its profile from more of a flat-bottomed vee to a more generous semi-circle, as well as fully flattening its folded edges) the wheel would go in an out without issue and spin freely with no fouling; although there's probably less than 1mm of clearance on either side.

The bike finally back together I did a few more little jobs; cleaning a few areas with some WD40 and a cloth, setting the seat to its (not very convincing) rearmost position, tightening the headset nut (by hand) to reduce some play in the bearing and trying (largely unsuccessfully) to centre the rear brake caliper.

On its maiden (for me) voyage up and down the street the bike felt very odd; the bars extremely narrow, the gears clumsy, the brakes crap. Today I went out properly for the first time and probably covered 10-15 mile just rolling around the city; accompanied by a largely period-correct new wave soundtrack kicked off by Echo and the Bunnymen's epic Killing Moon 

In contrast to my initial observations the bike felt a lot nicer this time. The brakes are pretty crap; not a lot of outright power (I don't think I could lock the back wheel) or feel, but not life-threateningly terrible and better than the drums on the ofo. When on the brakes the suicide levers rattle (need to tighten their fixing screws) and while initially skeptical I actually quite like them for breaking from sides of the bars with the tips of the fingers pushing up from below. The state of both rims makes itself known, but thankfully now the really high spots have been dressed down braking feels rough rather than lumpy, which is tolerable.

Unfortunately the mudguard mount at the brake bridge has broken and for some reason the guard sits excessively high / outboard at the rear; repeatedly clattering against the reflector. Irritating indeed, providing you can hear it over the the tunes of course!

I've not ridden a bike with friction shifters for the best part of 20yrs and found them as you might expect; imprecise, inconvenient and requiring a lot more forethought when stopping (or just acceptance that you're going to have to grind your way up to speed again when starting off again). Since shifting was a lot more involved I found myself tolerating a wider range of cadences than I usually do.

The gears feel clunky and their range is limited with the 50/40t chainring and 14-28t cassette giving IIRC around 60% the range I'm used to on my CdF's 50/34t and 11-34t setup. In addition the short crank arms diminish the low-end gearing further so getting up hills isn't particularly fun; out-of-saddle grinding being the order of the day. Ironically in its lowest gear the Raleigh takes about the same amount of crank revs to get up our hill as the Ofo does; although at least the geometry is more predisposed to putting your back into it.

All that said once the novelty that the bike otherwise felt pretty decent to ride had hit home, I quite enjoyed the feeling of involvement and tactility of cranking the levers every time a shift was required.

Intrinisically the frame rides nicely and the geometry is generally good, although the seat really needs to be significantly further back. After riding for a few miles I forgot about the initially-alien-feeling narrow bars (and the fact they're bent) and largely very much enjoyed the ride. The tyres seem decent enough and display no obviously elevated rolling resistance.

So there we go.. potentially a worthy utility bike that's quicker and a bit more versatile than the ofo (this one has mudguards!) although it loses points for its lack of built-in lighting and ease of gear shifting.

On the whole I'm really pleased with it so far. This ride was going to be make-or-break as to whether I punted the bike on, but I certainly don't feel the need to currently.

A few pics in reward for making it to the end:











Im not sure why the panier rack is angled downward at the rear; there appears no way of adjusting this. Likewise I don't know why the mudguards sit so outboard at the rear (especially on the back). I'm tempted to bend the stays outwards to pull the guards in a bit, but am aware that they should probably be straight so am reluctant. Anyone got any ideas please?






I think I did a reasonable job of re-forming the bent rear guard, considering what I was dealing with. It's not perfect but works fine. I suspect it could be made to look a lot better by a skilled tin-worker with appropriate tools. Note the nick in the lower-RH corner where the battered, bare rim had evidently cut into it - illustrating the amount of time the poor thing was ridden effectively without a tyre 







The stem as high as it'll go and is just about level with the saddle as set at an appropriate height, so is comfortable enough.







I love the colour of the frame and for some reason find myself drawn to the bottom bracket for really showing it off after a bit of a scrub. I was skeptical about the pedals but they do a mostly fine job of gripping my shoes 






The new rubber (yes I'll address than wonky valve stem when I can bring myself to have the tyre off again!). Note the once-high spot in the rim near the base of the valve where the finish has worn through the chrome and copper to the steel beneath. I also discovered today that the ding in the frame near the shifters has been caused by the nut on the brake caliper when the bars and wheel have been allowed to swing around to the right unchecked.


So that's that for now. Possible future jobs include straightening / replacing the bent bars, replacing the bar tape, properly tightening the headset nut if I can get a spanner, and giving the bike a good clean. In addition it needs a new chain as the checker fell through with room to spare, and I probably don't begrudge spending another £9 on a replacement since it's acquitted itself pretty well so far (although I hope this doesn't also demand a replacement cassette at the same time!).

I also recently acquired a dead "Professional" hybrid from which I've robbed the wheels; interestingly despite being a modern bike a lot of the tech is decidedly old with an identical (geometrically at least) 5-speed freewheel and very similar 36 spoke 700x21 rims - although in ally. I'm tempted to swap them over but the hubs are pretty tatty so not sure which route to go yet..


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## Gunk (1 Aug 2020)

Nice job, Warlands stock a spare mudguard bridge, you just rivet it on, mine was about a fiver.

I'd change those brakes, they'll never be any good. Shimano RX100's are a good upgrade, they're twin pivot.

The pannier rack bracket usually slides to adjust the angle of the rack, it's strange that there is not any adjustment.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-...470069?hash=item289968bd35:g:8p0AAOSwSx1fI~5P


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## wafter (1 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> Nice job, Warlands stock a spare mudguard bridge, you just rivet it on, mine was about a fiver.
> 
> I'd change those brakes, they'll never be any good. Shimano RX100's are a good upgrade, they're twin pivot.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I'll maybe poke my head around Warlands' door if I can bare to throw another fiver at it 

Tbh the brakes are live-able with and adequate for the scope of what I'll be using it for; although I'll keep an eye on those calipers in case they go for a silly-low amount. Ta for the link!

EDIT: The rack is an odd one; I assumed it would have some sort of adjusment too but everything appears fixed with the bracket at the brake bridge having a single hole and is welded to the round-section mount that screws to the rack itself; so as far as I can see it can only fit in one position..


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## Gunk (1 Aug 2020)

Last pair I bought were £12


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## wafter (1 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> Last pair I bought were £12


Nice - might be able to stretch to that although I'm determined not to let the budget creep up too much!


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## wafter (2 Aug 2020)

Another inconsequential update.

After yesterday's ride I noticed the headset didn't feel quite right. In the absence of a correctly-sized spanner I'd tightened it up by hand using a bit of innertube for better grip but it still felt sloppy. Last night I unscrewed the whole upper assembly, cleaned the thick, sticky, dried grease from the threads, re-lubed with some thickish chain oil and reassembled. This time time I got some obvious engagement with the bearing race - I think previously the cap was hanging up on the mucky threads, so that's another little job done.

Afterwards I went out for another ride around town which really brought home how "imperfect" the saddle is. Thanks to my long legs it sits far too far forward, meaning the best I can manage is to have my sit-bones perched right on the rear of the seat. If I relax and overcome the obvious lack of contact I'm hanging off the back of the saddle and could conceivably push right over the edge..

I think the saddle could be reasonably comfortable in the right place, however this is a moot point since this isn't possible .By the time I got home (from probably 20ish miles cumulatively that day) my arse was so sore I was having to push right forward on the saddle to make the remainder of the journey bearable 

Musing over the issue in bed I cast my mind to the butchered cheapo "Professional" bike sat out by the bins awaiting the next pikey trawl of the area.. this morning it was thankfully still there so I robbed the seatpost and saddle assy; which (just like the wheels and cassette) are compatible with the 25yr-older Raleigh 

I ended up swapping the Professional saddle onto the Raleigh's seatpost; it's manky as fook but the separate clamp positions the saddle a little further back, and also accepts a more conventional twin-rail mount than the Raleigh's integral setup.. so will allow me to fit a wide range of alternative saddles should I so desire.

In addition to being a little further back the "new" saddle is fat, soft and sprung so should hopefully be a bit kinder to my back end! Hopefully it'll make the bike a bit less appealing to thieves too 








Ideally this won't be a long term solution, but for now it's welcome if it makes the bike more comfortable / tolerable.. I'll hopefully get to test it out tomorrow


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## rogerzilla (3 Aug 2020)

It's just like one of Lance Armstrong's TdF bikes!


(Last ridden by a drug abuser)


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## Nigelnightmare (5 Aug 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> It's just like one of Lance Armstrong's TdF bikes!
> 
> 
> (Last ridden by a drug abuser)


Lance Armstrong did NOT abuse drugs.
He did however USE them for the purpose they were intended, which was to help him go faster!
And it was under strict medical supervision.

I'm not condoning the use, just pointing out the fact that he didn't *abuse* them, (meaning using them for a different purpose than that which they are made/designed for).


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## rogerzilla (5 Aug 2020)

If we're being charitable, he originally needed EPO to recover from the chemo and testosterone to make up for his shortage of bits, and just didn't stop.


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## Nigelnightmare (5 Aug 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> If we're being charitable, he originally needed EPO to recover from the chemo and testosterone to make up for his shortage of bits, and just didn't stop.


Then he should never have been allowed to ride professionally whilst on those drugs.
I never said he didn't USE drugs, I just said he didn't ABUSE them, i.e.
(using them for a different purpose than that which they are designed/prescribed).

I don't agree with the use of PED's in sport and the excuses of some that it was "prescribed for an existing medical condition" is ridiculous.

If you have a medical condition/injury that needs medication, then you should not be allowed to compete whilst on that treatment.

End of, no if's, but's or maybe's.


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## wafter (6 Aug 2020)

So anyway, back on topic..

I've since done a few more miles on this bike and am impressed by the saddle which affords a noticeably softer ride over rough terrain and I was impressed to reach down and feel a good amount of displacement in the springs over the bumps. The downside is sometimes it forms part of a sprung-mass systems whose natural frequency coincides with my pedal strokes or the bumps in the road so can get quite bouncy..

Also I'm not sure how hot it would be on longer journeys; in this case possibly just swapping bruising for chafing. For a casual bike I really like the comfy, springy saddle though and if I feel the need to replace it at some point would probably go this way over something more sporty. 

I keep having to rein in my desire to improve the bike further as the whole point is to keep it cheap and tatty-looking to avoid too much loss if it got nicked and de-incentivise this happening in the first place. 

I am however vaguely considering tidying up the saddle - a mate suggested re-covering it and it appears that it could be stripped enough to allow this to happen. I reckon some thick vinyl and a heat gun could do the job... alternatively I might just lash it up with some gaffer tape. 

Having learnt a bit more about parts compatability I'm really kicking myself for flogging my Giant now, since it appears its 8sp rear wheel would only have needed 6mm more axle spacing to have fitted (as opposed to the very optimistic 10mm of a 9sp+ setup) so chances are had I kept it, it could have made an excellent parts donor for this bike 

I'm still torn on the novelty v. clunkyness of the gearing; and have found a few more perculiarities including its apparent disposition to creep off the 28t sprocket at the rear while climbing, as well as making some fairly pained noises when running 40/20t - it's constant and almost sounds like poor alignment although no amount of fettling the shifter will alleviate it and it has probably the most straight chainline at this setting (maybe that's the reason). I'm also aware this combination is exactly divisible (i.e. a 2:1 ratio) which I know is arguably bad for wear.. while also probably being the most likely used ratio. 

I need to sling a new chain on it but am deliberating over where to source one and am a bit anxious that it might not play well with the older chainring and cassette; although they don't look obviously worn..


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## Gunk (6 Aug 2020)

Decathlon do a cheap chain with a quicklink


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## wafter (6 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> Decathlon do a cheap chain with a quicklink


Thanks - I did consider one but PlanetX are doing KMC chains for about £3 after discount code IIRC; the fly in the ointment is whether I can justify the spend on the pair of spare Conti tyres I've been watching on their site; and what other "essential" sales items I might get drawn into..


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> EDIT: The rack is an odd one; I assumed it would have some sort of adjusment too but everything appears fixed with the bracket at the brake bridge having a single hole and is welded to the round-section mount that screws to the rack itself; so as far as I can see it can only fit in one position..



It looks to me as though the rack was designed for a bike with smaller sized wheels. For casual occasional use where it might have a carrier bag bungee strapped to it's top, but not fitted with proper touring panniers, it's hardly going to matter. A £22 functional bike is a good result, look at the plus points, it's a British-built lugged steel Raleigh, it's got a decent riding if unexotic frame, and it's low enough in cost/value not to be too paranoid about leaving it unattended. Cheapo bikes like this are freedom bikes, where you can just use them unconstrained by the factors that would curtail you from taking out an expensive one.


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## wafter (7 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> It looks to me as though the rack was designed for a bike with smaller sized wheels. For casual occasional use where it might have a carrier bag bungee strapped to it's top, but not fitted with proper touring panniers, it's hardly going to matter. A £22 functional bike is a good result, look at the plus points, it's a British-built lugged steel Raleigh, it's got a decent riding if unexotic frame, and it's low enough in cost/value not to be too paranoid about leaving it unattended. Cheapo bikes like this are freedom bikes, where you can just use them unconstrained by the factors that would curtail you from taking out an expensive one.


Thanks - not sure about the rack v. wheel size tbh but something certainly doesn't look right. An image search of similar bikes suggests a range of different panier attitudes (including some apparently the same as mine).. perhaps Raleigh just used this model to punt on a load of old stock intended for another...?

I totally agree with your other points though and find myself loving it for precisely the reasons you give. It certainly brings a feeling of freedom not having to worry about locking it up and makes it feel a lot more useful and versatile than my more expensive bikes as I'd never leave them unattented anywhere outside the house (or ride them when a bit sloshed). 

It does breed a certain dichotomy in my mind though; I constantly want to make it better (because I like it and that's what I do) but of course this would require spending money and essentially detracting from the factors that make it so appealing in the first place. 

I think this bike has defintely broken the n+1 seal.. before I got it I was content with the idea of a CRFP road bike, steel gravel bike and a utility bike of some discription (maybe even just the utility bike and gravel bike at a minimalist push). Now I've developed a proper fetish for an old, original high-ish end '80s racer (like a Raleigh Record Ace or similar), as well as a nice late '80s / early '90s vintage steel frame with a nice modern groupset. 

Not that I have the money or the space, but mentally at least it looks like this bike has opened the floodgates!


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## wafter (7 Aug 2020)

Another scintillating update...

Earlier I attacked the rims with some fine steel wool and they're pretty presentable now from a distance. Of course they're still speckled and a bit rough to the touch where the chrome has been lifted / removed by the corrosion, but the scrubbing has removed a lot of the rust bloom around the broken chrom so it doesn't look as severe. I need to find some way of protecting them now; thinking carnauba wax might be the best bet but suggestions are welcome as always.

While I was at it I gave the somewhat rusty panier a bit of a tickle in a few areas and it reacted really well; the corrosion almost completely disappearing (apart from in the most severe areas), leaving a nice smooth finish. Not sure why this reacted so differently to the rims; maybe the plating is softer or it's some form of stainless (although it's still magnetic).

I also found a couple more bulges in the rear wheel I'd evidently missed so will try to remember to address them next time the wheel's off.

I went out for a gentle mosey (given the heat) and found that the front end didn't feel too clever under braking again. It transpired that the headset and front caliper nuts had worked loose, so these were nipped up when I got back.. I gave the headset locknut a bit more of a crank this time so hopefully it'll stay put, but lack the slim 10mm spanner necessary to hold the half-nut on the caliper so suspect this will continue to work loose until I source the right tool (really need a 14mm one for the hubs too). 

I came back via the shops and the panier is still proving novel for allowing me to carry a greater amount of vital provisions


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## ColinJ (7 Aug 2020)

That's a good job! 

I put together a singlespeed bike at low cost and the temptation is always to make it better, but I wanted it to be a knockabout bike that I wasn't afraid to lock up outside shops (a) because it would be less tempting to steal and (b) because it wouldn't be a big financial loss if someone stole it anyway. So, I don't think you should spend much more on it, except... perhaps to replace the wheels? (See below! )

I nearly got killed when I was 13 riding my bike to school. It had wheels like yours. I was late for school and went whizzing down a hill in the rain towards traffic lights at the bottom. The lights changed to red as I approached but nothing much happened when I braked on my wet chrome rims!  The cross traffic had already started moving when I accidentally jumped the red light. The drivers coming both ways spotted me and braked hard so I had a gap to squeeze through... Don't trust those wheels in the wet unless you have some kind of modern brake block that actually works on slippery chrome!


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## Gunk (8 Aug 2020)

Sometimes the grease gets into the thread so it’ll keep coming loose, clean the threads thoroughly and If you stick a tiny blob of Blue Loctite on the bottom nut of the headset it’ll stay tight, don’t use too much as you don’t want it dribbling into the bearing race.


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I put together a singlespeed bike at low cost and the temptation is always to make it better, but I wanted it to be a knockabout bike that I wasn't afraid to lock up outside shops (a) because it would be less tempting to steal and (b) because it wouldn't be a big financial loss if someone stole it anyway. So, I don't think you should spend much more on it, except... perhaps to replace the wheels?



There's no reason why even replacing the wheels needs to cost much. I found a well abused aluminium framed Ridgeback hybrid dumped in some bushes last year. It was in a right state, and not worth getting roadworthy again, but I did salvage a decent enough pair of alloy 700c rims and another couple of odds and ends off it all the same.
That said, I still run a 3-speed roadster and a hack Raleigh Pioneer on steel rims without issues. No, they don't stop too great in the wet, but since I don't enjoy cycling in the rain anyway, I'm not going to be riding them in the wet to begin with - unless I get caught out by an unexpected shower. In that case I take it easy and remember the limits of the stopping power. One day years ago I got drenched visiting a relative with a house at the top of a very steep road on a 3-speed, and it was still raining when it was time to go home. Rather than risk a no-stop at the T-junction at the bottom I just walked down the road pushing the bike and got on at the bottom. The rest of the journey was on the moist side, but otherwise uneventful. You just ride according to the road conditions and the type of machine you are on.


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## Teamfixed (8 Aug 2020)

Don't know if this has been suggested already but it's screaming out to me.... fixed wheel, saddlebag work bike.


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## wafter (8 Aug 2020)

ColinJ said:


> That's a good job!
> 
> I put together a singlespeed bike at low cost and the temptation is always to make it better, but I wanted it to be a knockabout bike that I wasn't afraid to lock up outside shops (a) because it would be less tempting to steal and (b) because it wouldn't be a big financial loss if someone stole it anyway. So, I don't think you should spend much more on it, except... perhaps to replace the wheels? (See below! )
> 
> I nearly got killed when I was 13 riding my bike to school. It had wheels like yours. I was late for school and went whizzing down a hill in the rain towards traffic lights at the bottom. The lights changed to red as I approached but nothing much happened when I braked on my wet chrome rims!  The cross traffic had already started moving when I accidentally jumped the red light. The drivers coming both ways spotted me and braked hard so I had a gap to squeeze through... Don't trust those wheels in the wet unless you have some kind of modern brake block that actually works on slippery chrome!


Thanks 

As per my previous post I agree about the spending - in fact I have a stark reminder of this in the form of my ofo; which despite costing me nowt initially now owes me a little over a ton and if I sell it (to be replaced by the Raleigh as a utility hack) I suspect I'll struggle to get back what I've spent.

Ta for the thoughts about the brakes - funnily enough I was only thinking last night how, while being acceptable in the dry they'd probably be a bit of a nightmare in the wet. They occasionally elicit mild terror on the 10% ish descent into the city and any more wouldn't really be appreciated!

While I have a spare set of ally rims salvaged from another bike I'm reluctant to use them as the hubs are tatty and I don't really want the hassle / scope for cock-ups of re-lacing them. I will at some point strip and rebuild the hubsand maybe just try dropping the rims on complete (they have an apparently compatable 5-speed freewheel as well ) although I think the slick 40mm tyres will probably struggle to clear the rear mudguard given the issues I had with the knobbly 32mm efforts currently on there..

Also I'm impressed by how these steel rims have held their trueness so far (especially having taken such a beating) and I'm not sure how much I can expect from a set of cheapo Chinesium rims off a battered, stolen, abused budget hybrid..

I'm not sure what the existing pads are made from but they look like some sort of felt material.. bargain-basement rubber replacements appear pretty cheap and I'm currently considering either a set of four Jagwire blocks for a fiver which apparently have good reviews, or if I end up placing and order with Planex X for other stuff two pairs of Jobsworth blocks (either socket cap bolt or acorn nut fitment) for all of £2.80 for two pairs after their promo discount has been applied.. obviously lower costs are always welcomed but the Jagwire ones look more period correct and I can't find any reviews for the Jobsworths.. as always I'd welcome any thoughts on either if anyone has any 

My only remaining concern is that replacement fully-rubber blocks might be less accommodating of imperfections in the rim in comparison to the current fuzzy-felt items.



Gunk said:


> Sometimes the grease gets into the thread so it’ll keep coming loose, clean the threads thoroughly and If you stick a tiny blob of Blue Loctite on the bottom nut of the headset it’ll stay tight, don’t use too much as you don’t want it dribbling into the bearing race.


Thanks - I'll see how it goes but it might come to that! I guess in any case I really ought to have it all apart again and properly grease both upper and lower races now I've got some decent moly grease in my possession!


A little more progress was had today; thanks to the bike offering a welcome route of procrastination relative to some more important tasks I should have been doing 

As previously mentioned the bars have taken a bit of a beating; the RH side being bent downwards, rearwards and twisted clockwise (when viewed from the RHS). I was musing last night over how I might remedy this and today got busy with a breaker bar, levering the bottom rear of the drop outwards against the top rear of the stem (with a bit of padding to protect the latter). This has straightened the downward bend a fair bit but it's still present to an extent. I also had a go at addressing the bends in other planes, but it's difficult to restrain the bars appropriately to apply enough force.

In addition being ally I suspect all the deformation has caused them to work-harden; the upward-bending at first going fairly easily then pretty much resolutely refusing to go any further - suggesting it'd need a lot more force and may risk breakage and I suspect I've probably got them about as good as I can. 

All the talk above about not spending any more money notwithstanding I have noticed a seemingly lovely set of Nitto flared "Randonneur" bars at an apparently fantastic price (approximately 14 packets of pork scratchings and not far off what I'd pay with postage for a set of used originals from ebay), so might plump for a pair of these with the justification that they could go on the vintage steel frame / modern groupset road bike I definitely don't intend to build in future...


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## wafter (8 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's no reason why even replacing the wheels needs to cost much. I found a well abused aluminium framed Ridgeback hybrid dumped in some bushes last year. It was in a right state, and not worth getting roadworthy again, but I did salvage a decent enough pair of alloy 700c rims and another couple of odds and ends off it all the same.
> That said, I still run a 3-speed roadster and a hack Raleigh Pioneer on steel rims without issues. No, they don't stop too great in the wet, but since I don't enjoy cycling in the rain anyway, I'm not going to be riding them in the wet to begin with - unless I get caught out by an unexpected shower. In that case I take it easy and remember the limits of the stopping power. One day years ago I got drenched visiting a relative with a house at the top of a very steep road on a 3-speed, and it was still raining when it was time to go home. Rather than risk a no-stop at the T-junction at the bottom I just walked down the road pushing the bike and got on at the bottom. The rest of the journey was on the moist side, but otherwise uneventful. You just ride according to the road conditions and the type of machine you are on.


Ta - as above I have a set of such wheels but have my reservations..



Teamfixed said:


> Don't know if this has been suggested already but it's screaming out to me.... fixed wheel, saddlebag work bike.


Nup - tbh I think fixed wheel bikes are the work of the devil so I'll definitely be keeping as many gears as I can! Saddlebags would be good though and it's definitely going to be put to work as a utility bike.. "work" is pushing it a bit though since i don't currently have a proper job..


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## Teamfixed (8 Aug 2020)

True.... "doing the impossible with the unrideable"


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Aug 2020)

My Raleigh Royal has Randonneur pattern alloy drop bars, perhaps unsurprisingly being a touring bike. I find them very user-friendly, although I hardly ever use the drops themselves. The last time I owned a drop bar "racer" prior to the last couple of years I was still a teenager, so it's hard to make direct comparisons, but the Randonneur pattern certainly seems to work for me. Not sure I'd necessarily replace a perfectly good set of "normal" drops mind you, but if replacing damaged ones or converting from flat bars, it's certainly worth giving some thought to the shape profile of the drops you intend to use. They aren't all the same and don't all feel the same to ride with.


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## wafter (8 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> My Raleigh Royal has Randonneur pattern alloy drop bars, perhaps unsurprisingly being a touring bike. I find them very user-friendly, although I hardly ever use the drops themselves. The last time I owned a drop bar "racer" prior to the last couple of years I was still a teenager, so it's hard to make direct comparisons, but the Randonneur pattern certainly seems to work for me. Not sure I'd necessarily replace a perfectly good set of "normal" drops mind you, but if replacing damaged ones or converting from flat bars, it's certainly worth giving some thought to the shape profile of the drops you intend to use. They aren't all the same and don't all feel the same to ride with.


Aye; I like the flared bars on my CdF and think I prefer them to standard drops.. looks like the Nitto bars might no longer be on offer though - perhaps it's a cosmic signal to curtail my spending..


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## wafter (10 Aug 2020)

A bit more done today..

After recently straightening / trueing the front wheel (and "correcting" its dish based on measurements between the rim and either side of the fork) I noticed that the centre of the tyre's tread was noticeably offset to one side of the brake caliper mounting stud when viewed from the front, which somewhat twisted my melon.

First I suspected bent forks but there was no issue with wheel alignment / parallelism. I checked to see if they were twisted by viewing their crown relative to the dropouts from above; again everything aligned properly. Last thought was that the caliper's mounting stud was bent - highly likely considering the witness mark on the frame from where the nut on the caliper had hit it in the past; while the gap between the caliper and fork crown seemed to taper from one side to the other.

In a rare fit of pragmatism, before reaching for the mallet I removed the caliper to inspect the stud, which appeared pretty straight. With the caliper and guard out of the way it was easier to eyeball the wheel's position; which looked pretty damned central:






Seemingly the only possibility left was that the caliper mounting hole was pished in the fork; which turned out to be the case when poking a screwdriver into it and checking extremes of movement.

Handle pushed to far right of bike (just about central):







Handle pushed to far left of bike (clearly on the wonk):







Re-checking the fit of the caliper stud in the hole revealed a reasonable amount of waggle room, so rather than try to correct the hole with a file (and risk creating a corrosion initiation point) I crossed by fingers that I could better align the caliper by skewing it over to one side when tightening its retaining nut.


Since I'd got this far it would have been rude to have not given this area a clean and re-grease the headset bearings as I'd planned to at some point.It was a bit filthy so I figured it deserved some attention..







Out came the fork, everything was cleaned and the paintwork of the fork and head tube waxed.

One for @SkipdiverJohn - not too bad for your standard gas pipe...?







Unfortunately the paint on the dropouts has taken a bit of a beating, but I can't complain for a 33 year old freebie. Next time I refit the wheel I suppose I should get some grease in this area to keep the corrosion at bay:







The removable bits of the headset bearing (minus the cups still pressed into the head tube) - in order from top to bottom (left to right, top to bottom).







I cleaned a lot of dried grease out of the cups but left it on the bearing cages as it wasn't hurting anything and probably afforded some additional corrosion protection should any water get in there.

Each bearing assembly was packed with moly grease and the whole lot reassembled. I also added some moly to the wedge on the stem, which (rightly or wrongly) looks like a really nice quality Japanese item:







The front area looking a lot more presentable for my efforts:






(Ctd. in next post)


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## wafter (10 Aug 2020)

Before refitting the brakes I gave the caliper a quick cursory clean without stripping it, and took some corrosion off the (remarkably made in Japan!) Cateye reflector before waxing it for some protection:












While the mudguard was off it also got some attention. I tweaked a couple of shallow creases in its edge with an adjustable spanner and addressed the partial plastic coating remaining in some areas:







I'm not sure what the crack is with this tbh - best guess is that it was there to protect the guards during shipping and was never removed (either in error or to try and preserve them during use).

Either way, now only about 40% of it remained, it looked tatty and was promoting localised rust where it had lifted and was retaining water, so it had to go. I peeled off what I could (with the aid of some heat from the cooker's gas ring) and removed the remaining residue (from the bits I'd removed and in other areas) with some degreaser, before giving the guard a wash and wax.

I forgot to take another shot of the guard in isolation as I was in a bit of a rush by this point, but here's the front end all back together... having refitted the brake cable retainer in the correct location (which it wasn't initially).






Time will tell if the caliper alignment is any better, but it looked more central during the quick look it got before I went out 


Finally, a shot of my nice shiny head badge:







There are still many jobs to be done; having seen what can be achieved with the front mudguard I'd like to give the rear one the same treatment; although this will doubtless be a bit tricky as the bolt at the BB is pretty convincingly seized.

I need to replace the chain and try to get to the bottom of what's causing excessive drivetrain noise in one gear, as well as stripping and re-greasing the rear hub - but this will have to wait until I've source and appropriate 14mm cone spanner.

I also want to replace the felt brake blocks with some rubber items in the hope of improving the pretty dismal braking, as well as probably re-wrapping the bars once I'm certain I'll be keeping them (colour? I'm thinking black as I'm not a fan of the while and retro-chic brown will probably look a bit busy with the rest of the colours already present)..

Finally I'm tempted to remove the bike's stickers (possibly with the exception of the "genuine gaspipe" one on the seat tube. While I generally prefer to keep things original I hate the later "Neighbours title sequence" font used for the branding, as well as the slightly patronisingly market-y "town and around" text on the seat tube.

The stickers are also a bit tatty in places too. On the one hand I like to keep things original, on the other I think it'd look a lot nicer (although potentially more expensive and thievable) with them removed. Can anyone force themselves to care enough to give an opinion?


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## SkipdiverJohn (10 Aug 2020)

Very impressive for such a cheapo project. Given that you want a low-thief attraction factor to facilitate worry-free casual use I would resist the urge to go OTT. Just stick to giving it a basic clean up and lube overhaul, and preserving bare frame steel against corrosion.
The Routier was a modest spec level bike and if you get too carried away, you'll soon end up spending more on tidying it than it will ever be worth, once the coronacycling fad subsides and normal used bike market values return.
If you find yourself really bitten with the old steel Raleigh bug, I would be just patiently keeping one eye out for a cheap 531 framed bike to come on to the radar. I waited quite some time for my Royal to show up, and passed over a lot of expensive examples in the meantime but eventually I got what I wanted for not a lot of dosh. A Randonneur would have been the holy grail, because of the all-531 frame and the paint colour, but I'll settle for what I've got.


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## wafter (11 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Very impressive for such a cheapo project. Given that you want a low-thief attraction factor to facilitate worry-free casual use I would resist the urge to go OTT. Just stick to giving it a basic clean up and lube overhaul, and preserving bare frame steel against corrosion.
> The Routier was a modest spec level bike and if you get too carried away, you'll soon end up spending more on tidying it than it will ever be worth, once the coronacycling fad subsides and normal used bike market values return.
> If you find yourself really bitten with the old steel Raleigh bug, I would be just patiently keeping one eye out for a cheap 531 framed bike to come on to the radar. I waited quite some time for my Royal to show up, and passed over a lot of expensive examples in the meantime but eventually I got what I wanted for not a lot of dosh. A Randonneur would have been the holy grail, because of the all-531 frame and the paint colour, but I'll settle for what I've got.


Thanks! I agree about the approach although don't begrudge it a few quid on essential / maintenance items as long as I can remain fairly confident that it'll remain serviceable as it's worth more to me as a hack than it's modest financial value 

Sadly I'm aware that cleaning / tidying will probably increase its desirability to thieves, however I can't help myself I'm afraid.. I certainly don't plan to spend a lot of money on showy additions. 

Tbh I have been keeping an eye out for nicer 531-framed bikes; however this is really pointless as I'd not want to subject anything really nice to daily hack duties and I couldn't really justify / store one otherwise. I'm tempted to replace my CFRP road bike with a highish end Raleigh frame with modern components, however this would be a currently-unjustifiable indulgence and would hinge on finding something that hits that perfect balance between being worth saving but equally fair game for a non-original conversion. 

I'm still getting the hang of all the '80s Raleigh models; I've come across both the Royal and the Randonneur - the latter apparently still commanding very good prices!


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## Reynard (11 Aug 2020)

If the stickers are tatty and you don't like them, then take them off.

I've done precisely that on the Raleigh MTB that I'm currently doing up as a winter bike, and it made the frame look a whole lot nicer. Though I have left the small one on the seat tube that just states "Raleigh Max 15, Nottingham, England."

P.S. Late 90s graphics are even worse


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## wafter (11 Aug 2020)

Reynard said:


> If the stickers are tatty and you don't like them, then take them off.
> 
> I've done precisely that on the Raleigh MTB that I'm currently doing up as a winter bike, and it made the frame look a whole lot nicer. Though I have left the small one on the seat tube that just states "Raleigh Max 15, Nottingham, England."
> 
> P.S. Late 90s graphics are even worse


Thanks - I might just do that 

I hear you on the graphics - how's the paint? I've downloaded a few Raleigh catalogues and it's interesting to see how indicitive of an era the bikes are from their styling. Some proper neon-over-white horrors in there from the '90s IIRC!


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## Reynard (11 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks - I might just do that
> 
> I hear you on the graphics - how's the paint? I've downloaded a few Raleigh catalogues and it's interesting to see how indicitive of an era the bikes are from their styling. Some proper neon-over-white horrors in there from the '90s IIRC!



Paint is pretty good actually. There are a few chips and scuffs plus a bit of paint loss under the chainstays and on the dropouts, but it's survived remarkably well, considering. I'll just go over the bare bits with some clear nail varnish - no one will see them unless the bike is tipped upside down.

I was dealt the worst possible hand with the graphics, as it's a junior bike (I know, this gal is a bit undertall), and those tend to be more flamboyant on the paint job side than the equivalent adult bikes. So a light cadmium red bike, with navy, dayglo orange and acid lime green. Sunglasses time and then some...  The bike is from 1998 btw.

Before (flash has muted the colours some, but you get the idea):





After - well, the almost bare frame:





I think it looks a lot better as a plain frame, don't you?  I did a bit of nosing around, and the bike also came in a bright green with yellow and orange graphics. I think I prefer the red.

P.S. I love the mix of burgundy and cream on yours. It's cleaned up really nicely.


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## wafter (11 Aug 2020)

Reynard said:


> Paint is pretty good actually. There are a few chips and scuffs plus a bit of paint loss under the chainstays and on the dropouts, but it's survived remarkably well, considering. I'll just go over the bare bits with some clear nail varnish - no one will see them unless the bike is tipped upside down.
> 
> I was dealt the worst possible hand with the graphics, as it's a junior bike (I know, this gal is a bit undertall), and those tend to be more flamboyant on the paint job side than the equivalent adult bikes. So a light cadmium red bike, with navy, dayglo orange and acid lime green. Sunglasses time and then some...  The bike is from 1998 btw.
> 
> ...


That looks like a nice little score for a kid's bike (which as we all know usually see the worst neglect / abuse) and I agree it looks so much better without the stickers (and really tidy too for the work you've evidently put in). Graphics designed for kids in the '90s were never going to wear well but the colour looks pretty nice in isolation 

Glad you like mine - I love the colout too and FWIW I think the paint makes it look a lot more expensive than it was (the white head tube echoing the Randonneur of the same era which - by current used prices - is worth about four times as much).


I've made some more decent progress on the Routier today. After deliberating for ages over where to source a chain I bit the bullet and went for the more costly but conveneint, known quantity of one from Decathlon (which is just down the road) for eight quid.. bringing the total spend to a little shy of £30 so far.

The short trip was made on the Raleigh and typified by oppressive heat and humidity, the bike making an array of perplexing and concerning noises, and the overwhelming desire to issue a firm backhand to the muppet stood next to me in the bike bits aisle whose face mask coverage was limited to only his chin - wtf is wrong with people? 

Because the bike was an unknown quantity I elected to size the chain using the accepted method rather than simply relying on cutting it to the same number of links as the one that came off; a learning experience as I've only ever replaced chains on bikes I've had from new so not needed this process.

I followed the first bit of this Park Tool video; revealing that my chain was clearly too long.

Not much forward RD cage displacement on the big/big combination..







... while the cage was folded right back on itself on the small/small sprocket setup:







In addition to this less-than-ideal orientation the chain was also very sloppy with next to no tension.







I played about folding the chain to simulate a shorter length than the 114 links fitted; suggesting that losing two link pairs / four links total would be about right:












However, as previously measured the chain has worn to about 2% oversize; which in terms of length is the equivalent of having a little more than two additional links / one link pair. I elected to fit the 114 link chain as-received and once sure probably remove one link pair to give 112 links remaining.


I was reassured to have my suspicions confirmed that Decathlon's chain is a re-boxed KMC item...






...which after unpacking was chucked into a jar of paraffin, given a good shake and left to sit to remove the sticky factory packing grease while I got on with other bits of the job.

The unfeasibly greasey chain was split and removed, the rear wheel pulled out and the bike precariously propped up to allow access to the drive components; which were saturated in water-based degreaser, left to sit for a while, scrubbed and rinsed. This process was repeated numerous times until the 30-odd years of caked on grease and grit had been removed as best as possible. Only one paragraph to describe; a couple of messy hours to complete in real life.

At some point during the above process the new chain was removed from the paraffin, drip-dried and chucked in a pan of wax / moly powder mixture on the hob and left to cool; turning occasionally 

Once the drive components were "clean" (and the resultant spatter removed from the rest of the bike as best as possible) it was all reassembled with the new waxed chain; confirming that the replacement was indeed a bit long so a link pair was pulled to bring it down to 112 links total.

I'm generally really pleased with how it's turned out - the extreme RD positions now look a lot more acceptable (if still a little sloppy in the small/small combination; not that I'm likely to use this), and the transmission parts so much cleaner 












Tbh I don't really think the pics really convey how much grime was removed from the chainset and freewheel; thankfully this won't be a problem in future thanks to the lovely waxed chain 











I found the RD to have a fair bit of slop in its mounting and jockey wheels, although thankfully this doesn't appear to affect performance.

Given the chain wear and array of nasty noises I was a bit concerned that I might encounter slippage with the new chain, however a quick lap or two round the block proved this to not be the case (at least so far). In other great news I reckon the number of sinister sounds eminating from the drivetrain have decreased by maybe 75% which is great 

(Ctd. in next post)


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## wafter (11 Aug 2020)

In addition to the headline job above I re-aligned the (increasingly tatty) saddle so whipped out the seatpost clamp bolt and gave it some with the steel wool; the (I suspect) stainless bolt coming up really nicely (having just written that I've remembered that you probably shouldn't use mild steel wool on stainless!) but the flaky-chromed nut didn't enjoy such a remarkable recovery, unfortunately..












Finally a couple of shots from the front to show the bars as they were as received (bent) and now after some abuse with a breaker bar (less bent):











I think I can live with them like this, although in addition to the RH of the bars still being bent downwards slightly, the RH shifter also appears to be mounted low on the bars. To move this (as has to be done) means partially re-wrapping the bars and an enticing opportunity to replace the tatty tape (and spend more money to make the bike more tidy-looking and hence attractive to thieves..).


There are still plenty of jobs to do but I'm pleased with today's effort as it's alleviated the anxiety about causing more damage through continued use with the old chain, it's a crappy messy job out of the way and has given me renewed hope that with a bit more work the bike should prove serviceable for many years so is worth putting the time and few quid into


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## Gunk (11 Aug 2020)

You’re getting properly stuck into that @wafter it’s coming together well. I like the fact it’s a rolling restoration, I’m not so good at that as I can never resist dismantling them.


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## Reynard (11 Aug 2020)

One serviceable bike less in landfill can only be a good thing @wafter  That's really coming up nicely, makes the elbow grease worthwhile. And Decathlon is a good place to get sundries.

Mine looked far better than it actually was once I started stripping it down - the drivetrain was completely shot and the rear axle bent like a banana. I've bit the bullet and gone for a new wheelset, and am upgrading to 8 speed if I can get the clearance. It does mean I now have the dubious delight of having to spread the rear triangle...

What I find rather intriguing is that some of the parts Raleigh used didn't change much in the interval between your bike and mine. I guess they must've had deals for serious job lots on things.


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## raleighnut (11 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks
> 
> As per my previous post I agree about the spending - in fact I have a stark reminder of this in the form of my ofo; which despite costing me nowt initially now owes me a little over a ton and if I sell it (to be replaced by the Raleigh as a utility hack) I suspect I'll struggle to get back what I've spent.
> 
> ...


Do not 'wax' the rims, you'll never stop in the rain, also those abrasive brake blocks are designed to work on steel rims, if you had aluminium wheels they'd chew through them in short order but they're meant to 'bite'on the harder steel rim


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## wafter (12 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> You’re getting properly stuck into that @wafter it’s coming together well. I like the fact it’s a rolling restoration, I’m not so good at that as I can never resist dismantling them.


I am - tbh it's a welcome escape / distration from other areas of life and appeals to me on every level; being a nearly-free, thoroughly useful item that I have the power to make so much more from than the undeserved fate of being recycled into Chinese bean tins it would have been destined for otherwise 

It's only a rolling resto out of necessity really; I lack the facilities to practically keep it in bits for long periods, as well as the decisiveness and funds to pull it all to bits and do everything in one hit. If I had a garage and workstand it would probably wouldn't see the light of day until this time next year 



Reynard said:


> One serviceable bike less in landfill can only be a good thing @wafter  That's really coming up nicely, makes the elbow grease worthwhile. And Decathlon is a good place to get sundries.
> 
> Mine looked far better than it actually was once I started stripping it down - the drivetrain was completely shot and the rear axle bent like a banana. I've bit the bullet and gone for a new wheelset, and am upgrading to 8 speed if I can get the clearance. It does mean I now have the dubious delight of having to spread the rear triangle...
> 
> What I find rather intriguing is that some of the parts Raleigh used didn't change much in the interval between your bike and mine. I guess they must've had deals for serious job lots on things.


Absolutely - I'm always for a bit of "make do and mend" and I love the fact that viable, well-made transport can be had for such a small amount of money (perhaps if you're prepared to put the work in as this one owes me a lot of time).

Sorry to hear that yours was in such a state; however this is always the way with complex mechanical items - you'll never find / have the facility to check many potential faults when buying. For me it's an anxiety-watershed moment with anything like a bike, car etc when I've finally pulled every major sub assembly to bits and have an idea of how healthy it is (facilities permittin of course).

So what are the specs at the moment - I'm guessing 24" rims and a 5 speed freehub on 120mm axle spacing? I'm not too familiar with standards for MTBs and junior stuff. It's funny you mention the pasts as I've found similar; despite the fact that the widespread use of 5 speed freewheels died (I'd guess) around the early '90s on road bikes, I acquired a "Professional" (anything but) hybrid from 2011 that has this setup, while I think more modern ones are only running 6-speed freewheels. I guess the older stuff does still have some advantages over newer gear; probably enjoys some economy of scale thanks to emerging markets too. 

Are you keeping the straight bars and friction shifters?



raleighnut said:


> Do not 'wax' the rims, you'll never stop in the rain, also those abrasive brake blocks are designed to work on steel rims, if you had aluminium wheels they'd chew through them in short order but they're meant to 'bite'on the harder steel rim


Thanks - the wax would only have been applied / left on the pitted centre sections of the rims, but I appreciate the thought. So you reckon that plain rubber pads would be worse on steel? I'd like to improve the braking if I can as it's fine in anticpatory situations, less pleasant when a guy hobbles across the tow path in front of you, or some pillock pulls out of a junction without looking because he's yapping to his mrs 


Today I experienced the Raleigh in the wet for the first time; my two major takeaways being that a) yes; the already crap brakes are significantly worse and b) the mudguards protect everything from my lower shins up, comprehensively soaking everything beneath including the bottom bracket, crank and chain; so looks like a "bespoke handmade" extension is on the cards!


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## Gunk (12 Aug 2020)

I rode my old Claud Butler in a shower recently and forgot how bad rubber brake blocks and chromed rims are in the wet.


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## Gunk (12 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> Today I experienced the Raleigh in the wet for the first time; my two major takeaways being that a) yes; the already crap brakes are significantly worse and b) the mudguards protect everything from my lower shins up, comprehensively soaking everything beneath including the bottom bracket, crank and chain; so looks like a "bespoke handmade" extension is on the cards!



This will do you

https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompt...d-flap.html?search_query=Mud+flap&results=332


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## Reynard (12 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> Absolutely - I'm always for a bit of "make do and mend" and I love the fact that viable, well-made transport can be had for such a small amount of money (perhaps if you're prepared to put the work in as this one owes me a lot of time).
> 
> Sorry to hear that yours was in such a state; however this is always the way with complex mechanical items - you'll never find / have the facility to check many potential faults when buying. For me it's an anxiety-watershed moment with anything like a bike, car etc when I've finally pulled every major sub assembly to bits and have an idea of how healthy it is (facilities permittin of course).
> 
> ...



Well, this one owes me £25 that I paid for it at the local tip / recycling centre. Stripping and re-building a bike to my personal spec is something I'd always wanted to have a go at, and this one turned up in the right size and at the right price, which is a miracle in the current situation. Good junior bikes in decent nick are hard to find under normal circumstances. The joys of being 4ft 11, I suppose... 

As best I can tell, the chain got jammed in the drivetrain, and that some considerable force was then used to free it. On the brief test ride I had, it felt like riding through treacle; hardly surprising given what I've found as I've stripped it down. The rear wheel was crabbing sideways even though it was ostensibly sitting square. 

Yes, 24" rims, 5-speed 14-28 freewheel, 130mm spacing, 42-32-22 triple on the front is the original spec.

The bars are going, as they have (probably) been in a vice and are damaged, but I'll be replacing like for like. Current shifters are indexed gripshifts, and they're going as they are quite frankly horrible. As are the plastic brake levers. All being well, I'm upgrading to 8-speed cassette, as the new rear wheel comes with a freehub, and am fitting trigger shifters.

Btw, my thread on the project is HERE 

P.S. My previous junior MTB (a mid-80s Emmelle) had chromed steel rims. Stopping, especially in dusty or wet conditions, required serious advance planning...


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## wafter (13 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> I rode my old Claud Butler in a shower recently and forgot how bad rubber brake blocks and chromed rims are in the wet.


I bet - these fibre ones were bad enough and it seems they're supposed to be better than plain rubber. Mine have been OK so far with some defensive riding but tbh if I had to perform and emergency stop I'd have no chance..



Gunk said:


> This will do you
> 
> https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/brompt...d-flap.html?search_query=Mud+flap&results=332


Thanks - will give it some thought although I'm not sure it'd necessarily be long enough.



Reynard said:


> Well, this one owes me £25 that I paid for it at the local tip / recycling centre. Stripping and re-building a bike to my personal spec is something I'd always wanted to have a go at, and this one turned up in the right size and at the right price, which is a miracle in the current situation. Good junior bikes in decent nick are hard to find under normal circumstances. The joys of being 4ft 11, I suppose...
> 
> As best I can tell, the chain got jammed in the drivetrain, and that some considerable force was then used to free it. On the brief test ride I had, it felt like riding through treacle; hardly surprising given what I've found as I've stripped it down. The rear wheel was crabbing sideways even though it was ostensibly sitting square.
> 
> ...


Cool - you've got to love a budget project! I'd love to do similar one day with an old steel frame; actually spotted a totally stripped () Raleigh / Reynolds frame D-locked to a fence earlier, but of course it's still someone else's property; despite the high probability that it's been abandoned.

At least you're making the most of your skinny-end-of-the-bell-curve size and the cheap frames it makes viable!

That's interesting about the rear spacing, which is 10mm more than I'd expect on a road bike. I guess an alternative to spreading the dropouts would be to rebuild the rear wheel with a road hub (IIRC 11sp is still 130mm) although I appreciate that this would have its shortcomings and might bring issues with component compatability too.

Have you looked into changing the axle spacing? There are some good guides on youtube; I'd personally want access to some decent kit to make sure it was done aligned properly when I'd finished as it's probably quite easy to cock up. Park do some nice gear but I'm sure far too expensive to justify for a one-off project.

Sounds like you've got it all sussed anyway - I'll take a look at your thread when I get a minute to save you having to duplicate it all over here 



I gave the Routier a bit more of a tickle today. The wonky brake levers were irritating me so I did my best to make them a bit less so; electing to drop the one on the (undamage) LH side as I preferred the lower position of the RH one. I unplugged and unwrapped the bar tape, disconnected the rear brake cable to get access to the clamp bolt in the brake lever, slackened it off and dropped it by around 10mm from where it was before repeating the whole procedure in reverse. I also gave the tatty tape a bit of a scrub afterwards, with mediocre results..

It's certainly better but obviously not perfect given the bars are still bent; I think I might have some luck by putting a lever on / in each drop and forcing them against each other (one up, one down) although I don't currently have anything that fits.


How the bars look now - still pished but arguably less-so. Looking at the image it appears the LH shifter could have done with being dropped more, however this also alters is angle relative to the RH one - it's impossible to get both the the angles and heights correct due to the bent bars while measuring their positions is difficult due to the lack of repeatable reference points....













I also took some shots of the roll-stamping on the bars as I love its aesthetic...











..before covering it up with more important things:






The bell is from my CdF (which got fitted with the one off my Boardman as that bike doesn't need one since I don't usually ride it in any situations where pedestrians need to be moved on). They're all the same cheap, generic bundled-to-appease-the-law items anyway; but aside from the questionable live plastic hinge on the striker not bad little units.

The speedo is from my old Giant and has been recalibrated to the Raleigh's wheel size using the superior "rolling along the floor" method. I couldn't find its magnet but re-fitted the one that was already on the bike when I got it, and had to use a bit of the perpertually useful and abundant "old bit of innertube" to both stop the speedo mount from slipping around on the bars (in leiu of the original rubber pad) and pack the bell clamp out to properly fit the skinny bars.

Note also that the image above illustrates how the RH end of the bars is bent backwards (and down) relative to the LHS.

I took the bike out for a little pootle; the 20 miles covered proving more enjoyable for a) having a legit way of suggesting that pedestrians GTF out of my way, and b) knowing how fast and far I'd travelled.

In other news the drivetrain continues to be joyfully quiet (when correctly indexed at least) although the chain has gone a little rusty from yesterdays rainy escapade. Thankfully it's still squeak-free though.

Somewhere on the journey I also lost the old, holed sock I'd lashed between the rear mudguard and reflector to stop it rattling; so really ought to pull my finger out and sort a replacement guard bracket from somewhere.


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## wafter (14 Aug 2020)

A little more today but no pics.

While rummaging in my "bike bits box" I found one of those cheap pressed steel "spanners" with four hexagonal holes of varying sizes punched through it. I decided to chance a fiddle with my front caliper retaining nut (as it'd come loose again) and thanks to some slop in the spanner and some fortuitous positioning of the thread inside the locking nut I managed to get it all nipped up with the half nut and locking nut roughly aligned; allowing me to remove the spanner.

I also had more of a play with the front caliper position. It seems that the resting place of the brake blocks relative to the rim is controlled by the return spring for the caliper arms; which passes through a horizonal slot in the caliper retaining boss. Rotating the caliper mounting stud alters the orientation of this slot, the spring and hence the bias of the pads to one side of the rim or the other.

I'd had trouble centring the caliper / blocks about the rim as it always seemed to creep back over to give a fat gap on one side and sod all on the other. This was apparently because the plastic boss on the caliper that contains the spring slot is sloppy, allowing some movement. Today I slackened the cable tension right off to get more displacement in the caliper, re-aligned it again and nipped it up. I think it's worked this time and the blocks now have a fairly consistant 2mm-or-so clearance with the rim 

At the same time I also fitted a stainless M5 washer beneath the nut for the front caliper mount as I didn't like the small diameter anti-shake washer alone separating the nut and mudguard mount.

Finally I re-adjusted the rear brakes to give a shorter lever pull to try to match that of the front, however really I need to true the rim a bit better as my efforts to stop the tyre rubbing the rear guard have made it a bit wibbly..


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## Gunk (14 Aug 2020)

Those Weinmann side pull brakes are useless, the 999 centre pulls are so much better as they’re dual pivot and are always centred, the side pulls tend to be pushed off centre by the weight of the brake cable.


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## wafter (17 Aug 2020)

Gunk said:


> Those Weinmann side pull brakes are useless, the 999 centre pulls are so much better as they’re dual pivot and are always centred, the side pulls tend to be pushed off centre by the weight of the brake cable.


Yeah, they're not too splendid but they work and I have to keep reminding myself not to spend any money on it!

As it happens having had some success centring them has allowed me to run tighter clearances with the rims, which in turn has made them bite earlier in the lever travel at a preferable point (more advantage to the fingers I guess) so they inspire more confidence (less terror) than they did. Also, it might be my imagination but they seem to be less rough in use now (I'd guess as some of the high spots on the rim take a beating).


I've made a bit more minimal but satisfying progress. My hand-crafted-upcycled-artisan-polymer-stealth mudguard extension from the ofo has been fitted and it works perfectly - after a puddle-strewn thrash into town and back earlier I can report the worst it got was a bit of mist to the shins, rather than the constant bow-wave soaking my feet, the BB and crank as was the case previously 

I also had a eureka moment with the panier; finally twigging that the mounting tabs on the rack itself are just folded around and slide fore-aft (I thought they were integral, despite being a different colour ) so everything has been slackened off and the rack punted forward as far as it'll go; making it just about level 


The guard, actually really pleased with this for a bit of recycled pop bottle:







Rack mounts, now in a far more appropriate position. Note the contrast in rust content between both sides of the mount; after having a go at the RHS with steel wool I reckon it must be made of stainless as it's cleaned up a lot better than the chrome elsewhere has..







As it currently stands.. I like how visually unobtrusive the addition to the guard is, but the aesthetic of the tatty saddle and bar tape are starting to grate..


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## SkipdiverJohn (17 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> The guard, actually really pleased with this for a bit of recycled pop bottle:
> 
> View attachment 542127
> 
> ...



Accept it's cosmetically challenged imperfection and leave it as it is. Remember this is supposed to be a cheapo hack bike you can thrash around town and not worry about it. You don't want it to look too decent. Your saddle isn't that bad anyway.

Here's the one I removed from a skip Apollo MTB, that I repaired with duct tape and fitted to my el cheapo Puch 3-speed. The chrome on the bars was so bad I ended up binning them as razor sharp flakes were cutting my hands! I've got some old MTB ones on now, off another scrapper. Believe it or not the bike rides lovely!


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## wafter (17 Aug 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Accept it's cosmetically challenged imperfection and leave it as it is. Remember this is supposed to be a cheapo hack bike you can thrash around town and not worry about it. You don't want it to look too decent. Your saddle isn't that bad anyway.
> 
> Here's the one I removed from a skip Apollo MTB, that I repaired with duct tape and fitted to my el cheapo Puch 3-speed. The chrome on the bars was so bad I ended up binning them as razor sharp flakes were cutting my hands! I've got some old MTB ones on now, off another scrapper. Believe it or not the bike rides lovely!
> 
> View attachment 542139


Yeah, yeah - I know... it's in my nature to try and improve things though! In my defence the saddle may well become a practical issue soon as the fabric beneath the outer covering is wearing and I suspect will get water-logged if it gets wet. Did think of the gaffer tape approach and it might come to that yet. Have been peering into skips for potential re-covering materials, but so far no luck.

That looks like a tidy little score - how old do you think it is? Looks like it pre-dates MTBs by a long way tbh! I think a lot of old steel frames probably ride a lot better than many would give them credit for; and likewise many names we now fully associate with crap (such as Apollo) might not have been so shifty back in the day. 

Funnily enough I saw an abandoned ladies Apollo on the Cowley rd recently - was tempted to snaffle it but it needed a load of work and given what it was figured it was probably unlikely to be worth flogging it on, while I also didn't fancy pushing it 3 miles home and attempting to ride at the same time would probably have ended in disaster 

ffs I'm in bed now after an exhausting day but can feel the pull of the night and all the abandoned two-wheeled jewels a trawl of the city might reveal!


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## Reynard (17 Aug 2020)

Upholstery vinyl and a staple gun should do it...


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## wafter (17 Aug 2020)

Reynard said:


> Upholstery vinyl and a staple gun should do it...


Thanks - it's obtaining it that's the issue as the rest of the saddle is tatty and I could probably replace it with a cheapo one for £15 off the 'bay (IIRC the bike it came off only cost £100 new).. need to befrend an upholsterer so I can purloin their offcuts


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## Reynard (17 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks - it's obtaining it that's the issue as the rest of the saddle is tatty and I could probably replace it with a cheapo one for £15 off the 'bay (IIRC the bike it came off only cost £100 new).. need to befrend an upholsterer so I can purloin their offcuts



That might be me, then.  Let me know what you want to do - I may have some offcuts knocking around if you're not too fussy when it comes to colour.


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## SkipdiverJohn (18 Aug 2020)

wafter said:


> ... it's in my nature to try and improve things though! In my defence the saddle may well become a practical issue soon as the fabric beneath the outer covering is wearing and I suspect will get water-logged if it gets wet. Did think of the gaffer tape approach and it might come to that yet.



Generally I also like to tidy up my acquisitions - but I mentally divide my fleet into "good" bikes and hack bikes. The former I do try to make as presentable as the underlying condition allows. The latter I just maintain them so they are safe & functional to ride. Whilst riding something that looks like a shed may cause observers to form a particular impression of me, I don't really care about that and they can think what they want. The fact the bike is still there when I return even in a less than salubrious location means ultimately I have the last laugh.



> That looks like a tidy little score - how old do you think it is? Looks like it pre-dates MTBs by a long way tbh! I think a lot of old steel frames probably ride a lot better than many would give them credit for; and likewise many names we now fully associate with crap (such as Apollo) might not have been so shifty back in the day
> 
> Funnily enough I saw an abandoned ladies Apollo on the Cowley rd recently - was tempted to snaffle it but it needed a load of work and given what it was figured it was probably unlikely to be worth flogging it on, while I also didn't fancy pushing it 3 miles home and attempting to ride at the same time would probably have ended in disaster



I believe the 3-speed dates to about '73/74. That didn't come from a skip and I was told it was bough in response to the petrol price spike caused by the Six Day War which seemed to set the inflation trend for the rest of the '70's.
I've encountered dumped bikes at times I had no immediate means of transporting them. I try to push them out of sight, and in one case I chained it to a lamp post using the lock off my hack bike then returned later when I was in the vicinity with a van.
Halfords own brand bikes have always been low budget, but they haven't always been crap. I have an 80's Halfords (not Apollo) frame that is really well detailed for a 3-speed gas pipe job. It's much more nicely made than my Puch frame, but unfortunately is an inch smaller.


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## rogerzilla (18 Aug 2020)

The factory "packing grease" on chains is better than anything you can buy. Just fit and ride.


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## wafter (20 Aug 2020)

Reynard said:


> That might be me, then.  Let me know what you want to do - I may have some offcuts knocking around if you're not too fussy when it comes to colour.


lol - how convenient, thanks! Unfortunately I'm a bit of a tart but if you've got some going begging I'm always interested to hear what's on offer 



SkipdiverJohn said:


> Generally I also like to tidy up my acquisitions - but I mentally divide my fleet into "good" bikes and hack bikes. The former I do try to make as presentable as the underlying condition allows. The latter I just maintain them so they are safe & functional to ride. Whilst riding something that looks like a shed may cause observers to form a particular impression of me, I don't really care about that and they can think what they want. The fact the bike is still there when I return even in a less than salubrious location means ultimately I have the last laugh.
> 
> I believe the 3-speed dates to about '73/74. That didn't come from a skip and I was told it was bough in response to the petrol price spike caused by the Six Day War which seemed to set the inflation trend for the rest of the '70's.
> I've encountered dumped bikes at times I had no immediate means of transporting them. I try to push them out of sight, and in one case I chained it to a lamp post using the lock off my hack bike then returned later when I was in the vicinity with a van.
> Halfords own brand bikes have always been low budget, but they haven't always been crap. I have an 80's Halfords (not Apollo) frame that is really well detailed for a 3-speed gas pipe job. It's much more nicely made than my Puch frame, but unfortunately is an inch smaller.


Indeed - I feel the same in principal and generally manage to avoid pouring money into sheds that I'll never get back, but can't help the urge to constantly improve within reason. Of course the fact that keeping the bike looking tatty is, in practical terms a positive thing in this case is somewhat at odds with this..

I'm not really bothered by peoples' perception either - I think the lowest I've stooped so far is riding the ofo round town with no shirt on 


Not that I'm in any way educated but I could see the Apollo as '70s.. I love that sylish no-frills utilitiarian look that harks back to a time when bikes were considered a practical necessity by more people than they are now. Sounds like you're more committed / accomplished than I am with your finds - I often feel a bit scally (my moral threshold is "unlocked and unrideable") and haven't yet resorted to locking anything up, but I'm fairly new to this! 

A mate of mine has an old Halfords town bike I'd guess from the '70s or '80s; it's far too small for him too but looks alright for what it is; rust notwithstanding..




rogerzilla said:


> The factory "packing grease" on chains is better than anything you can buy. Just fit and ride.


I can see why it might appeal although sadly it didn't acquit itself well on my Genesis; retaining a lot of dust and particultates and accumulating on the cassette and chainrings. I imagine it might be better in winter when corrosion is more of a concern and there's less grit in the air..


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## wafter (15 Sep 2020)

After a good few weeks of stagnation I'm happy to report some more progress!

A while ago on @Gunk's recommendation I popped my head round the door of local shop Warlands on my quest for a replacement bracket for the rear mudguard. After a pitying look toward the bike from the owner (or perhaps he recognised it as having been dumped across the road from his shop before I found it) I was sent on my way with a used one for the princely sum of a quid 

Since this job requred a bit of effort and skill while offering plenty of scope for cock-ups it was left for a while, until this morning when I awoke early and uncharactistically motivated; spurred on by a fantastic dawn that promised a day of glorious weather.

Out into the fresh morning air and the back end of the bike was stripped; chain, wheel, panier rack and brake caliper off; leaving the tatty rear mudguard hanging on by a single stubborn bolt at the chainstay bridge. The bolt had a thin slotted head with limited access, and after breaking a chunk out of my finest piece of spare-broken-hacksaw blade trying to hold the bolt steady I cracked out the Dremel and cut some slots across the nut and bolt; which got it all moving with no bother 








Once off the sorry state of the guard could be seen in all its glory - half of the plastic covering already torn off, the rest tatty in places and harbouring some light corrosion of the stainless guards where it had been damaged and retained moisture..







The site of the old, broken bracket:







The leading edge of the guard where it bolts to the frame:







The next seeming eternity was spent peeling of the covering f (if I was lucky), or more often than not painstakingly picking it away in areas where the adhesive proved stronger than the material itself. This was helped by a bit of warming over the gas ring; sometimes to the detriment of my fingers 

With all the plastic removed the guard was washed, dried and the remaining adhesive residue scrubbed off with an old sock and some degreaser. While it was off I had a crack at knocking out a bit more of the smackhead damage; using a dolly lashed up from a bit of rotten wooden baton and the guard separated from the doorstep beneath by the faithful old sock again..

Finally the guard was waxed; looking a lot better than when I started:







Next I moved onto the frame, which was also a bit grotty:






The back end of the bike got a bit of a wash and scrub with an old toothbrush to get the worst of the crap out of the nooks and crannies before also being waxed to afford a bit of extra protection. 







Next I had a crack at the bracket; first straightening it out with pliers and an adjustable spanner before giving a bit of a working-over with a soft-faced mallet and the famous sock on my doorstep anvil to try and knock the tighter kinks out, with some success..







This was offered up to the guard, marked and bent as accurately as possible in successive goes with the adjustable spanner again, until it was a reasonable but loose fit on the guard. It's far from perfect but given my limited facilities and experience with such stuff I don't think I could have done much better:







While the panier rack was off I took the opportunity to strip it and work over the rusted chrome with some 0000 wire wool and oil, with pleasing if not perfect results. Here's the rack bracket after my last effort - cleaned up a lot better than I'd expected although in some areas it's clearly too far gone with the chrome having flaked off in sizeable chunks..







As usual once tidied everything was waxed, with a little thick oil dropped into the joints to try and give some corrosion protection in these areas.

(Ctd. in next post  )


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## wafter (15 Sep 2020)

...

Everything fettled as far as was practicible it was time to sling it all back together, using some of my leftover Ofo-bound stainless socket button cap / Nyloc fixings to replace the fasteners destroyed during removal.

The bolt that came out was about 8mm long but replaced with a 12mm item to accommodate the additional length of the extra washers fitted and T-type Nyloc nut. I was a bit worried that this might cause clearance issues with the tyre during fitting; it wasn't fun but I got it back on and tbh I'm not sure if the bolt caused a problem or whether it was just the tight-fitting guard as usual. The bolt could do with a couple of mil nipping off the end to be sure but I can't be arsed to take it all out again yet so that'll have to wait until next time..

Anyway, here's the bike as it currently stands - cleaner, shinier, hopefully less rattly and now lacking the serpentine coils of the old innertube I'd entwined around the panier and mudguard to stop the guard moving about too much and causing further noise and damage.



























Tbh the photos flatter it somewhat and I've spent an obscene amount of time playing with the bike given what it's "worth" in monetary terms, but of course it's not all about that; so far I've found it a really rewarding project that feels all the more worthwhile considering what an excellent value, practical tool it's proven to be so far.

For interest's sake when the bike was in bits I weighed a few parts; the complete rack coming in at around 925g and the stand around 230g. As it stands in pretty much completed form the bike weighs 13.9kg. The bike now owes me all of £31 and probably about 20hrs labour.. since I fitted the speedo it's covered about 150 miles so that works out at around 20p per mile 

There's still arguably more to be done but this was the last of the necessary mechanical issues addressed. I find the paper-thin bar tape uncomfortable (plus it looks nasty) so I'm tempted to replace it, likewise the aesthetics of the saddle let the bike down and I don't like the stickers much, but as has been acknowledged many times all these probably make it less attractive to thieves, so will probably stay until I get the opportunity of replacements as appropriate for "you'd be silly not to" money.

Will probably give it a bit of a test ride later; given the hours spent I think I'm subconsciously expecting it to ride like a dream; although rationally the best I can expect is that it no longer sounds like a tin can kicked down the street over the bumps


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## Reynard (15 Sep 2020)

That really does look a whole lot better 

If you do want to re-cover that saddle, give me a yell and I'll have a look for some vinyl for you.


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## wafter (15 Sep 2020)

Reynard said:


> That really does look a whole lot better
> 
> If you do want to re-cover that saddle, give me a yell and I'll have a look for some vinyl for you.


Thanks on both counts - I might just do that 

I need to finish working my way through the thread on your latest project too; although it's somewhat intimidating in its length!


----------



## Reynard (15 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Thanks on both counts - I might just do that
> 
> I need to finish working my way through the thread on your latest project too; although it's somewhat intimidating in its length!



That's because we've gone off on the occasional tangent... 

And it was very much a learning experience, as it's my first project.  Have just ordered the last necessary item (crankset with a decent number of teeth), so hopefully soon, I should have a rideable bike...


----------



## Gunk (15 Sep 2020)

Considering it’s your first project you’ve made a really good job of it, I’m only down the road in Botley so give me a shout if you ever need any help/tools etc. Kettle is always on.


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## Reynard (15 Sep 2020)

Gunk said:


> Considering it’s your first project you’ve made a really good job of it, I’m only down the road in Botley so give me a shout if you ever need any help/tools etc. Kettle is always on.



I think you've got me and @wafter crossed up! 

Mind, I wouldn't say no to cups of tea, even if I've got to hoof it from north of Cambridge...


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Sep 2020)

Just goes to prove you can have a decent utility runabout for bugger all if you're prepared to get your hands dirty and sort things out by repairing them and using secondhand bits. I would ride that any day in preference to some modern plastic bike with a price tag a hundred times as much.


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## wafter (16 Sep 2020)

Reynard said:


> That's because we've gone off on the occasional tangent...
> 
> And it was very much a learning experience, as it's my first project.  Have just ordered the last necessary item (crankset with a decent number of teeth), so hopefully soon, I should have a rideable bike...


Nice work - hopefully you'll get to put some good miles on it before the weather changes!



Gunk said:


> Considering it’s your first project you’ve made a really good job of it, I’m only down the road in Botley so give me a shout if you ever need any help/tools etc. Kettle is always on.


Thanks - that's very much appreciated 



SkipdiverJohn said:


> Just goes to prove you can have a decent utility runabout for bugger all if you're prepared to get your hands dirty and sort things out by repairing them and using secondhand bits. I would ride that any day in preference to some modern plastic bike with a price tag a hundred times as much.


Absolutely - that's one of the things I love so much... feels like I'm gaming the system to get such a practical piece of kit for so little. Almost like it shouldn't be allowed given how there seems to be such a drive in so many aspects of life to keep you on the hook and paying through the nose to some scumbag or another. Not so with bikes; especially old ones 


Unfortunately the bike blotted its copybook on the way to the pub last night; letting me get all the way down the hill until the back wheel decided to shift in the dropouts and to the point where the tyre was heavily, consistantly rubbing on the mudguard - so back up the hill it was pushed 

Since I fitted the new tyres clearance has always been tight on the back, thanks to knobbly bits on the outside of the tyres and and the single pinch point where the guard necks down to pass between the chainstays. For anyone reading this and considering tyres for the same bike; I'd advise 32c slicks as a maximum...

I adjusted the wheel and it's now useable, but does rub slightly in one place due to the rim not being totally straight; so that needs addressing at some point..


----------



## Reynard (16 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Nice work - hopefully you'll get to put some good miles on it before the weather changes!



Thanks! 

Although that will be my bike *FOR* when the weather changes.  I envisage it getting rather muddy come the potato and sugar beet lifting seasons. 

Hope the Routier was severely admonished for letting you down so badly at the bottom of the hill...


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## wafter (17 Sep 2020)

Reynard said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Although that will be my bike *FOR* when the weather changes.  I envisage it getting rather muddy come the potato and sugar beet lifting seasons.
> 
> Hope the Routier was severely admonished for letting you down so badly at the bottom of the hill...


Would be nice to get a few dry miles on it before it sees the horrors of winter though 

Choice words were uttered as the wheel was re-aligned, although I suspect tightening the wheel a bit more when originally fitted might have avoided the situation 


Today I up-ended the bike to straighten the rear wheel and noticed that since re-aligning the wheel in the frame the only rubbing was at the brakes so I re-centred these with reasonable success 

I tweaked the spokes on the back wheel and while the frequency of wobble remains much the same its amplitude / total runout is less. I also tweaked out the edges of the guard but springback in the material means I still have maybe 1mm of clearance with the frame. Not nec. a bad thing I guess since the paint's unsurprisingly worn in other areas of contact.

Here's the situation with tyre clearance at the front of the rear guard; I'd guess 1-2mm at best. Note the tightest spot is near the raised tread at the shoulder; without this the clearance would be a lot more generous. These did come up a bit narrower than the 32mm specified at around 30.5mm across the sidewalls but I suspect you'd get away with 32mm slicks if they weren't excessively over-sized. As long as the wheel stays true I shouldn't have a problem, and so far they've proven pretty robust 







New lower fixing; different grades of stainless with anti-seize grease. Thankfully the end of the bolt is nowhere near the tyre so won't require shortening.







After half an hour of mincing in the garden (which quite frankly was a privilege given the fantastic weather) the Raleigh took me into town for a haircut and maybe 15 miles total of just moseying around, which was very nice


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## Reynard (18 Sep 2020)

wafter said:


> Would be nice to get a few dry miles on it before it sees the horrors of winter though



I can hardly disagree with that now, can I?  Not sure how fast Spa's turnaround is for orders, but if the weather holds and i don't have too many issues with the rest of the project, I should get a few miles in. Although I'm the sort of person who assumes that whatever can go wrong will go wrong...



> Choice words were uttered as the wheel was re-aligned, although I suspect tightening the wheel a bit more when originally fitted might have avoided the situation



I bet! Cycling has certainly taught me some rather... colourful... additions to my vocabulary. My Raleigh did the same to me on my test ride. (I know, I know, I should have checked everything was properly tight etc, but I was excited, like...) I ended up having to push the bike a mile and a half home in the piddling rain.

BUT...

I got passed by a tractor with a trailer full of onions that was a mite overloaded while doing so... I had to keep stopping to lob onions into my jacket as I walked.  Missed a trick there though, should've hung the onions from my handlebars...


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## wafter (18 Sep 2020)

Reynard said:


> I can hardly disagree with that now, can I?  Not sure how fast Spa's turnaround is for orders, but if the weather holds and i don't have too many issues with the rest of the project, I should get a few miles in. Although I'm the sort of person who assumes that whatever can go wrong will go wrong...


Finger's crossed and life has driven home time and again the persistant importance / relevance of pessimism, so you're not alone in that!




Reynard said:


> I bet! Cycling has certainly taught me some rather... colourful... additions to my vocabulary. My Raleigh did the same to me on my test ride. (I know, I know, I should have checked everything was properly tight etc, but I was excited, like...) I ended up having to push the bike a mile and a half home in the piddling rain.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> I got passed by a tractor with a trailer full of onions that was a mite overloaded while doing so... I had to keep stopping to lob onions into my jacket as I walked.  Missed a trick there though, should've hung the onions from my handlebars...


Oh dear; I guess it all builds character in the end! At least your plight had a silver lining 

Tbh even as a reasonably mechanically knowledgeable individual I'm still sometimes taken aback by the engineering finesse found in bikes and the associated potential to cock things up.. 


Not a lot to report today. I don't feel much like a big ride despite the glorious weather, so have just done a little 2 mile round trip to the shop on the Raleigh; delighting in the absence of things flailing about at the back of the bike but mindful of the light clatter still coming from the front over rough ground.

A bit of inspection concluded this was probably due to the front guard deflecting into the inside of the brake caliper; confirmed by the noise disappearing after a folded leaf was stuffed into the gap. I noticed that the caliper wasn't particularly well-centred (again) so have adjusted this to give a bit more of an even gap, althugh the caliper still contacts the guard when applied. If I can't get rid of the rattle I'll stick a bit of PVC tape or similar on the guard to give some cushioning.

During the past few weeks the roads seem to have been especially generous with bungee cords; gifting me a fetching pseudo-leopard print item and yesterday a squashed but useable sky blue job... both of which have been added to the rack in case I have cause to carry anything large on the pannier; the new cords allowing the carriage of a lot more girth as I can wrap them laterally / across the rack. I'm genuinely excited about this, as one might expect only a sad middle-aged man could be 








I've also been eyeing up bar tape as I'm growing increasingly intolerant of the slippery, thin, tatty and slightly 80's-and-not-in-a-good-way bar tape. 

I'm keeping an eye on some sources to see if I can pick some up on sale.. while I appreciate all the usual arguments for keeping the bike looking tatty I think I can justify this to myself on practical grounds.

Finally I'm still getting impure thoughts about removing all the stickers; only my default mindset of keeping things original and the knowledge that they probably make the bike look cheap and nasty (and less thievable) preventing me from whipping out the hair dryer and getting busy peeling..


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## Reynard (18 Sep 2020)

Tell me about it - even simple engineering can drive you bananas sometimes!

Why don't you go with white foam bar tape? It'll be comfy, but doesn't half get very grubby very quickly. I guess it's one of the times where white bar tape kind of serves a purpose.

FWIW, I have white bar tape and saddle on my roadie.  But I did switch from the OEM foam to the pierced leather-look stuff which, so far, has stayed reasonably clean. And that's how I know how grubby the foam stuff can get! 

P.S. My chainset turned up today. Ergo there may be much swearing emanating from my garage when I start putting the drivetrain together tomorrow...


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## mavric123 (1 Feb 2021)

I recently picked up a black Raleigh Routier and I've enjoyed it but have an itch to modernise it as much as possible (lockdown boredom).
Unfortunately I know next to nothing about bikes so this will be a challenge.
I'm ditching the steel wheels and swapping them for an alloy pair and also want to delete the front mech & convert it to a 1x system.
I originally planned a 1x9 but after reading this thread I see 9 may not be possible.
Ill be spending the next few days looking at drivetrain parts to see what will & wont work.
If you have any advice for me before I take on such a task it would be greatly appreciated.


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## Chris S (1 Feb 2021)

I doubt if there is enough space between the rear dropouts for anything more than a 5-speed freewheel.
The alloy wheels will let you stop in the rain though.


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## mavric123 (2 Feb 2021)

Chris S said:


> I doubt if there is enough space between the rear dropouts for anything more than a 5-speed freewheel.
> The alloy wheels will let you stop in the rain though.


You're right! I contacted a local old school bike shop today and they are going to build up a new rear wheel for me with a 5 speed freewheel over the next few days.
My next step is finding a new derailleur


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## Chris S (2 Feb 2021)

@SkipdiverJohn would be the best person to advise you on that, my knowledge is limited to 3-speeds.


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Feb 2021)

Chris S said:


> @SkipdiverJohn would be the best person to advise you on that, my knowledge is limited to 3-speeds.



If you want to fit a slightly wider hub into a steel frame the simplest and easiest way is simply to spring the chainstay open a bit more with your fingers. Obviously there are limits, but even if you go down the route of cold setting, you have to consider the width of the seatstay bridge where the brake mounts. The correct way, if doing a significant respacing, is to remove the bridge and fit a wider one to compensate, but that obviously requires access to the steel tubing and workshop facilities to braze with, and will destroy the paintwork. 
I've fitted a 126mm wheel into a 120 mm frame and a 130 mm wheel into a 126 mm frame using just finger pressure with no problems, but that is as far as I would go - only one width increment up from what the frame was originally built as.


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## wafter (27 Nov 2021)

Reynard said:


> Tell me about it - even simple engineering can drive you bananas sometimes!
> 
> Why don't you go with white foam bar tape? It'll be comfy, but doesn't half get very grubby very quickly. I guess it's one of the times where white bar tape kind of serves a purpose.
> 
> ...


Apologies - evidently didn't spot your response before going AWOL last year!

While foam bar tape would doubtless fit perfectly with the '80s aesthetic I'm not fan tbh. I have no moral issue with white tape if it fits, however I think in this case the bike would look so much better (and more thievable of course) with matching brown tape and saddle.

Glad to hear you've made more progress on your project! I hope now, a year down the line it's finished and being put to good use - I've had a quick look but can't find a link to your build thread - might you be able to provide one please? I'm intrigued to learn how it all panned out 



So, sod all of any consequence to report on this beastie really; since moving back home has rendered it redundant as utility journeys are usually either so short it's not worth getting it out or long enough to need the car.

It has, however been out on three glorious occasions (racking up a grand total of about 15-20 miles, although the speedo's apparently broken out of spite for being relegated to the shed for the past 12 months). Some months ago it got thrown in the back of the car to get me to work while it was being MOT'd (with less-than-straightforward consequences with which I won't burden this thread) then more recently on two consecutive runs to the next village to get some eggs from the local farm shop.

On each occasion this humble, battered old metal brought a smile to my face; of magnitude that would no doubt deeply confuse the consumptive, status-obsessed hoards that seem to dominate this country. Tbh I was grinning just dragging it through the kitchen on the last trip; such has been my starvation of cycling-derived dopamine of late.

So much did I appreciate using it that I was moved to return home for my camera and take some celebratory shots. Again, viewed in the context of current skewed, shallow values it seems that deriving such pleasure and satisfaction from something like this feels akin to pishing myself to an in-joke only I (and a select few others  ) get 

Still giving me far more pleasure than by rights I should be getting from something I found in the street and that owes me less than half a tank of fuel


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## Reynard (27 Nov 2021)

Oh yes, Max is finished bar a couple of nice but not essential tweaks (waiting for parts supply situation to improve) and I've had lots of fun riding local back roads, gravel trails and farm tracks. Good for muddy winter roads too. Not the lightest bike in the world, but very forgiving on rough surfaces.






And it's a bike that turns heads wherever I go.

And HERE is the thread you were after...


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## wafter (6 Dec 2021)

Reynard said:


> Oh yes, Max is finished bar a couple of nice but not essential tweaks (waiting for parts supply situation to improve) and I've had lots of fun riding local back roads, gravel trails and farm tracks. Good for muddy winter roads too. Not the lightest bike in the world, but very forgiving on rough surfaces.
> 
> View attachment 619710
> 
> ...


Excellent - looks like it turned out splendid 



A pitifully unexiting update on the Routier.. Saturday saw a return trip for eggs and a bit more nancy-gravel action; only for the whole thing to be ruined by a slow puncture when I got back (well, along with fatigue, wind-chill and general misery.. but I digress).

This is the first puncture I've had on this bike and not something I've been looking forward to fixing. I took the chain off to make things a bit simpler, inverted the bike on some wooden blocks to protect the tat bolted to the handlebars, cracked out the spanners and waggled the really-too-large tyres past the unfeasibly-close-fitting mudguard at the chainstay.

Once the appropriate bits had been separated the culprit was found to be a good, honest thorn though the tyre and tube. Tube patched and back together, I noticed the rear wheel was far from aligned with the downtube. I figured this was because I'd dished it wrong (during all the brutality to make the horrifically-abused rear wheel serviceable again) and subsequently skewed the wheel in the dropouts to centre it in the mudguard at the front.

I got out the spoke key and worked my way around one side of the wheel tweaking them loose by half a turn, then tightening them in a similar manner on the other side. This was repeated (with adjustements at the dropout as appropriate) until a total of 1.25 turns had been administered..

The wheel now seems parallel to the length of the frame; however is now noticeably offset to one side. Basically everything seems on the pish; the wheel offset to one side relative to the seat stays and to the other relative to the mudguard - the rear stays of which I've had to significantly straighten on one side and bend on the other to get clearance.

As much as I love this old bike and respect the old-skool craftsmanship of Raleigh; I can't help but think that this might be a bit of a friday afternoon special - perhaps after a particularly sustained liquid lunch (something that's supported by the pished caliper mounting hole in the fork)..

I also found a randomly-excessively-worn patch on the rear tyre - odd as the brakes are physically incapable of of locking the rear wheel - as much as I'd like to do some skids to impress the ladies.. I wonder if this is associated with the pished wheel; but I can't really see why this would only affect one spot.

Anyway, it is what it is. I might give it a run to the shop shortly to acquire a (fermented, cereal-based) dinner. If I don't post again in the next few days please assume the hateful contraption has killed me.


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## wafter (6 Dec 2021)

Well, it got me the half-mile to the co-op and enabled my unrestrained gluttony on reduced sandwiches and pastries for dinner.. I'd also like to say that it genuinely felt good to ride - although that might just be within the context of having sat here in the dark with my thumb up my arse for the past four days.

Anyway, the shopping shed lives on to fight another day


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Dec 2021)

Chris S said:


> @SkipdiverJohn would be the best person to advise you on that, my knowledge is limited to 3-speeds.



My advice is stick to 5 or 6 speeds at the back and forget about the current silly fashion for 1 x derailleur drivetrains. It's just marketing nonsense designed to con riders into buying "gravel" bikes that are really reinvented tourers minus half their gear range.
The Routier was a budget bike fitted with budget components - the sort of durable no-nonsense bikes Raleigh excelled at making that many of us grew up riding.
Any low end MTB/hybrid derived rear mech should fit one of these bikes, as will any similar MTB derived front chainrings, so long as the BB axle lengths are suitable. You just have to mix and match this old stuff as you go. It helps if you are like me and salvage any scrappers you encounter on your travels, so have a pile of spare parts available to choose from.


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## wafter (27 Jul 2022)

Noticed earlier that the Routier has had a couple of "birthdays" recently - June marked 35 years since it was apparently manufactured (according to its frame no.) while it's two years since I found it abandoned. 

Not a lot has changed recently; I've tweaked the spokes a little in an attempt to true the battered rear wheel a bit more, while the brake blocks have been removed, soaked in isopropanol and sanded in an effort to kill the banshee-like screaming that eminated from the front wheel under braking - with some success. 

Bits of brittle plastic continue to flake off the saddle and the foam is starting to get abraded now; tempted by a new replacement but also by the thought of trying to get a bit more life out of it by re-covering it somehow..

It continues to give good service in its new home at the office, while every ride brings smugness about how much enjoyment this bike gives considering how little it owes me


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## fossyant (27 Jul 2022)

Stick a new saddle on it for it's birthday, and some decent black bar tape.


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## wafter (27 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> Stick a new saddle on it for it's birthday, and some decent black bar tape.



Cheers - I'm certainly very tempted, however so far have resisted since I don't want to make it any more thievable; not that this is a huge concern currently as my living situation means it never gets left outside the pub (although hopefully this will change in future).

I think if I did spruce it up I'd go with brown tape and saddle; have seen the odd tatty Brookes on offer which has been tempting. I think I also need to be quite careful with saddle choice in terms of layback and compliance as the original came off due to being too far forward, while the gas pipe frame can be a bit of a bone shaker..


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## raleighnut (27 Jul 2022)

fossyant said:


> Stick a new saddle on it for it's birthday, and some decent black bar tape.



bar tape looks better a bit worn







oh and btw that is black tape


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## fossyant (28 Jul 2022)

I'd be putting some basic cork tape on - it's not expensive, and contact points should be 'nice', so decent saddle and bar tape.


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## wafter (28 Jul 2022)

raleighnut said:


> bar tape looks better a bit worn
> 
> View attachment 654678
> 
> ...


"A bit"? 

Probably a good theft deterrent though..



fossyant said:


> I'd be putting some basic cork tape on - it's not expensive, and contact points should be 'nice', so decent saddle and bar tape.


Yeah, again my main reason for not it keeping it tatty looking. IMO the original bar tape has done very well to last thing long; however it isn't very comfy and I'm on the fence with the looks.

I've brought the saddle home in an effort to re-cover it this weekend; so (materials permitting) depending on how much of a mess I make of that the saddle issue might be forced.. am keeping an eye on cheap used examples on ebay


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## fossyant (28 Jul 2022)

I find bar tape quite important. I've a 'brooks' copy from Planet X on one bike, that was cheap and comfy, then I needed tape for my other bike, but I was away from home and got 'stung' at a local bike shop (as you do) but it's a very nice tape, comfy and grippy. Was worth it as it went on the best bike !


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Jul 2022)

Any old cheapo saddle from a scrap BSO should do the job on a hack bike. One of mine is wrapped in duct tape with a bit of thin packaging foam under it for comfort. it looks horrible, but no-one has nicked it.


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## wafter (30 Jul 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Any old cheapo saddle from a scrap BSO should do the job on a hack bike. One of mine is wrapped in duct tape with a bit of thin packaging foam under it for comfort. it looks horrible, but no-one has nicked it.



Indeed; that was the source of the current saddle. 

I was going to try to re-cover this one or maybe fall back on the gaffer tape, however in the end thought I'd treat the bike to a decent replacement and scored this on ebay earlier:






It wasn't much more than the used rotters / cheapo new stuff and is in-keeping with the bike. 

It'll be less compliant than the fat sprung item currently fitted but should be better than the solid, non-adjustable original


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## Gunk (30 Jul 2022)

I’ve found the Decathlon saddles are cheaper than used stuff off eBay


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## ColinJ (11 Aug 2022)

I was just drawn back to this post by @wafter 'Liking' this post of mine...



ColinJ said:


> I put together a singlespeed bike at low cost and the temptation is always to make it better, but I wanted it to be a knockabout bike that I wasn't afraid to lock up outside shops (a) because it would be less tempting to steal and (b) because it wouldn't be a big financial loss if someone stole it anyway. So, I don't think you should spend much more on it, except... perhaps to replace the wheels? (See below! )


Funnily enough, I had just been looking at _*THESE*_ fine Spa Cycles singlespeed audax frames. I would LOVE to buy one and build a really nice singlespeed bike but then I would be scared to use it the way I use the current cheap bike. I would have to keep the old bike just for shopping trips, and I am getting swamped by bikes already!


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## wafter (11 Aug 2022)

ColinJ said:


> I was just drawn back to this post by @wafter 'Liking' this post of mine...
> 
> 
> Funnily enough, I had just been looking at _*THESE*_ fine Spa Cycles singlespeed audax frames. I would LOVE to buy one and build a really nice singlespeed bike but then I would be scared to use it the way I use the current cheap bike. I would have to keep the old bike just for shopping trips, and I am getting swamped by bikes already!



I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one battling that circular problem of buying something for utility then realising that actually, it's really too nice for that. 

So far the Routier is the only bike I have that I'm happy to leave locked up anywhere for a length of time - it owes me the least of the bikes I have but is so valuable for this reason!


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## wafter (15 Aug 2022)

Having got to work this morning and inspected the bike after last week's buckled rear wheel incident, it transpires that I've broken a spoke 

Typically this has happened on the drive side so the cassette will have to come off, something for which I don't have a tool.

I do have a (seemingly very similar) ally wheelset from a boggo "Professional" BSO and have long mooted the idea of swapping them over (or re-lacing the rims onto the Raleigh hubs).

For now think I'm going to take the path of least resistance and try to swap the complete rear wheel onto the bike then maybe re-lace and replace both if this works.

Fun fun fun - although I can't complain too much considering that I've got maybe 800 miles out of the comprehensively battered rear wheel before the spoke let go..


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## Gunk (15 Aug 2022)

What is the cassette you need to remove?

I’m in Oxford, may be able to help


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## DCBassman (15 Aug 2022)

A freewheel, at a guess.


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## wafter (15 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> What is the cassette you need to remove?
> 
> I’m in Oxford, may be able to help



Thanks! As usual things haven't gone according to plan, since the "spare" wheel from the BSO is 6sp with a corresponding 126mm axle spacing, while the Routier is 5sp 120mm.. so no straight swaps to be had here 

So, I'm going to accept that the bike will be out of action for a while and look to strip both wheels and rebuild once decent one using the ally rim (and possibly spokes) from the BSO and hub / freewheel from the Routier.

I think I need a Shimano splined tool for the freewheel from the Routier:







...and a Suntour two-notched tool for the freewheel from the BSO:







I'm happy to put my hand in my pocket to buy the splined tool as this appears more common and will be compatable with the bits I'm keeping. If you happen to have the notched tool I'd much appreciate the opportunity to pull off the (rusty, sloppy, generally knackered) freewheel assy from the rim-donor. Of course if you have both it'd be rude not to do both at the same time - thanks 

I have plenty of questions left about compatability, but will post that in another thread in technical where it'll get more views..


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## Gunk (16 Aug 2022)

I have a Shimano tool but not the Suntour tool, last time I removed one Windrush Bike charity in Witney removed it for me for a small donation.


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## wafter (16 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> I have a Shimano tool but not the Suntour tool, last time I removed one Windrush Bike charity in Witney removed it for me for a small donation.



Thanks and no worries - I've just bought a Shimano-fit tool as this probably won't be the last time I'll need it.

Tbh I might cut off the crappy cassette as it's all scrap, or if that proves difficult just remove the accessible spokes for spares and scrap the rest.

Cheers for the thought anyway


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## wafter (17 Aug 2022)

Got back from the pub last night after a particularly unfulfilling day and set about the rim-donor before all the day's caffeine wore off. 

Thanks to RJ the Bike Guy on youtube I'd learned how to strip the freewheel in situ; meaning I could remove the sprockets leaving just the smaller-diameter internal portion of the unit on the hub and allowing me access to remove the spokes. 

This was particularly satisfying as it found a use for some particularly cheap, soft and nasty punches I'd considered chucking out at the weekend but ended up keeping 

I'd oiled the nipples and they all came out fairly obligingly using a screwdriver from inside the rim channel. The rim cleaned up quite nicely with some soapy water, a scrubbing brush and scotch pad; the worst bits being some corrosion stains and burrs around the nipple holes in the rim channel (the latter of which I might clean up with a jeweller's file)...













I also have a box of bits; most of which will be going in the scrap..







I'm now waiting for the freewheel removal tool to arrive for the other wheel so that I can get that stripped and start to rebuild it with the new rim


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## Gunk (17 Aug 2022)

A good tip for swapping over rims is to use masking tape to tape the new rim to the existing wheel (line it up with the valve hole), easy way of swapping spokes over


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## wafter (18 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> A good tip for swapping over rims is to use masking tape to tape the new rim to the existing wheel (line it up with the valve hole), easy way of swapping spokes over



Thanks - I did consider doing similar, however I want to give everything a good clean before it goes back together so really want it all in pieces first. 

Anyone want to offer odds on me ever ending up with a serviceable wheel after all this?


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## Gunk (18 Aug 2022)

wafter said:


> Thanks - I did consider doing similar, however I want to give everything a good clean before it goes back together so really want it all in pieces first.
> 
> Anyone want to offer odds on me ever ending up with a serviceable wheel after all this?



I’ve built a couple up and it is super rewarding, you just need to take your time and have plenty of patience.


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## wafter (18 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> I’ve built a couple up and it is super rewarding, you just need to take your time and have plenty of patience.



Cheers - I can see how it could be really satisfying... equally it obviously has the capacity to be extremely frustrating if I make a b*llocks of it 

Was going to start today but the day has been swallowed by the Fuji... maybe I'll have a crack later this evening or tomorrow. I really want it back together by Monday if possible in case I need to use it, while I'm much less of a prick at the Tuesday night pub visit if I've been thoroughly exercised for an hour beforehand..


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## wafter (18 Aug 2022)

I am now fully committed 







Need to finish cleaning the the spokes, nipples and probably cassette tomorrow, then I can hopefully crack on with the wheel build


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## Gunk (19 Aug 2022)

A bit of fine wire wool and WD40 will get all that looking like new


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## wafter (19 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> A bit of fine wire wool and WD40 will get all that looking like new



Cheers - I gently used a scotch pad in the end on the spokes as they appear to be galvanised and I don't want to take off what remains; the rest was just washed in paraffin.

The entire day's efforts bring me to the point where I now have an approximately planar disc-shaped object on the back of the bike; that's more planar and disc-shaped than the one that came off..







Brain is too numb for a full post-mortem; suffice to say that it went OK - spokes fit fine, it's reasonably true and doesn't rub anywhere..
I did rediscover the old alignment problems with the frame; in that if getting the gaps either side of the wheel correct at the chainstays it's kicked over to one side at the seatstays 

With the nuts slackened off the rear axle has an amount of play along the slot in the NDS dropout, however this really only affects the attitude of the wheel about the vertical axis while I think my problem is indicitive of rotation about the axis along the length of the bike.

Also I noticed that the new rims are evidently designed to be run with Schrader valves, so their holes are larger. Not the end of the world, however it's additionally irritating that the cheapo (but decent) Decathlon tubes fitted don't have threaded valves / the ability to fit nuts.

Anyway, other than the fact that the rear wheel now actually rotates the bike feels much as it did before. Except the back brakes are even worse; I suspect because it's still running fibre pads which will be replaced at some point.

I guess the big question now is whether I want to start work on the front wheel (which should be significantly quicker / easier) or do I wait to see how this rim holds up..? It would be nice to get some closure and two tatty knackered bike wheels out of the dining room..


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## DCBassman (19 Aug 2022)

wafter said:


> Except the back brakes are even worse; I suspect because it's still running fibre pads; which will be replaced at some point.



If the old rim was steel, you need to change the blocks pronto. As I remember it, fibre pads will eat alloy rims in short order.


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## Gunk (19 Aug 2022)

wafter said:


> Cheers - I gently used a scotch pad in the end on the spokes as they appear to be galvanised and I don't want to take off what remains; the rest was just washed in paraffin.
> 
> The entire day's efforts bring me to the point where I now have an approximately planar disc-shaped object on the back of the bike; that's more planar and disc-shaped than the one that came off..
> 
> ...



Well done, you’ve done a good job. It’s not easiest thing to do.


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## wafter (19 Aug 2022)

DCBassman said:


> If the old rim was steel, you need to change the blocks pronto. As I remember it, fibre pads will eat alloy rims in short order.


Thanks - plan on ordering some pads shortly and the bike won't be getting much use for a few days anyway 




Gunk said:


> Well done, you’ve done a good job. It’s not easiest thing to do.


Cheers!

I owe a sizeable debt of gratitude to the video below which helped me nail the spoke lacing order / pattern - had I tried to figure it out myself I'd probably still be at it..



It literally only covers the lacing pattern but a mate reminded me of differential spoke lengths the other night and the rest was pretty easy to figure out.


I've oiled the crusty nipples on the front donor wheel and will at least aim to get that stripped this weekend so I've got the bits to do the front one as and when.. Sooner would be better than later as the bike will be going back to Oxford on Monday, and accommodating as my colleagues are I don't think they'd be too keen on me spending an entire paid working day rebuilding a wheel 


Finally it appears that schrader to presta hole adaptors are a thing, which has brightened my day more than it probably should


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## wafter (21 Aug 2022)

The donor front wheel has now been stripped and the rim thoroughly cleaned as per the rear.

The nipples on the rear wheel were tweaked today as the spoke tension seemed somewhat lacking and I took it out for an unsuccessful 3-4 mile egg run just to check it wasn't going to collapse beneath me when I actually needed it to work. Over this short distance the rim acquitted itself well; including on some mild gravel 

I also had a brainwave earlier and have made myself some DIY valve hole grommets by running a groove around the OD of some appropriately sized O-rings:







They're not perfect and I have my reservations about their longevity, but they're worth a try; especially since most of the off-the-shelf offerings are apparently intended to fit double-walled rims - so likely to interfere with the tube in these single-walled items.

Half of me thinks that the tube will push them out of the hole - I guess time will tell!

I'm going to take the bike back to Oxford tomorrow then assuming the rear rim's survived will swap the front one over later in the week; by which time my more appropriate brake blocks should have arrived..


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## wafter (23 Aug 2022)

A bit of an incosequential update, as much as an aid memoir for my benefit as much as anything else.

The bike is generally performing well and feels both a little more spritely and comfortable for its new rear rim; although of course this could be entirely psychological. Today I did another work run on it and got stopped by a chap on another old Raleigh (a Record Sprint IIRC) who has the Mixte version of my Routier, and was very complementary 

Something remains clearly amiss with the alignment of the rear wheel. The rim runs true on the hub and is pretty much central in the chainstays (mybe 0.5mm offset to the LHS, measuring to the rim), however is around 5mm offset to the RHS at the seatstays. I've measured (as best I can) the distance from the crank centre to of the rear axle on both sides and there seems to be about 1mm difference.

At the chainstays the rim is about 305mm in front of the centre of the wheel in the horizontal plane, while at the seatstays this distance is about 150mm.

I think in theory I could get the rim central at both the seatstay and chainstay through a combination of skewing the axle in the dropouts and altering the offset / dish on the rim. In practice I think this would require too much movement in the axle (which by crude measurement already appears to be fairly well aligned).

I'm wondering if the frame's wonky - either due to squiffy manufacture or damage.. need to find a way to measure it I guess!

*EDIT* It appears that the NDS end of the axle is maybe 1-2mm further behind the crank than that on the DS, as best as I can measure with my tape.

If I rotated the wheel about the (near) vertical by skewing the axle in the dropouts, increasing the offset at the seatstays by 5mm (for 10mm offset total) would increase the offset at the chainstays by around 10mm.. giving a comparable offset at each point. I could then correct this by altering the wheel on the dish to bring the rim 10mm across the axle towards the NDS to centralise it.

The problem with this is that to get the 5mm I potentially need at the seatstays would require around 4mm forward movement at the NDS side of the axle; which seems a lot. That said the dropouts are angled downwards slightly, so moving the axle forwards would also pull it down a little and bring the top of the rim down with it at the seatstays.

*EDIT 2* - I've just made an effort to measure the angle of the dropouts, and over 10mm horiontal they seem to drop by about 4mm, while the ratio of lengths between the 120mm axle and 300mm-ish radius of the wheel at the seatstays suggests that 1mm of vertical movement at the NDS end of the axle will move the rim at the seatstays horizontally by around 2.5mm. 

So in summary I think I should be able to get away with moving the NDS end of the axle forward in the dropout by maybe 2-3mm, which in combination with the fall in the dropout should allow me to dish the rim more and get everything more central. The axle doesn't naturally want to sit in this location though, so I might have to tweak the DS dropout inward a bit too..

This whole process is complicated somewhat by the fact that the NDS of the axle is secured with a ridged washer which has bitten into the paint and makes small adjustments difficult.

Looks like my next day off work's going to be fun!


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## wafter (24 Aug 2022)

So... got home and played with the rear wheel with not a whole lot of progress.

I took the opportunity to check the frame alignment with the string method (around head tube and dropouts, measuring at seatpost tube on each side) and found a discrepency of around 5mm between both sides; suggesting an offset of around 4mm towards the NDS at the dropouts.

Looks like I need to find a big long sturdy piece of wood to brutalise the frame with somewhat before I attempt any more wheel alignment..


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## wafter (25 Aug 2022)

A quick / final(?) update as I can't be arsed and there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest..

Cracked on with the Routier fairly early this morning. First job was the re-check the frame alignment using some fine fishing line for a more precise / reliable value, suggesting that the seatpost tube was misaligned with the dropouts by about 2mm - with a reading from line to tube of 31mm on the DS and 35mm on the NDS.

I set about the frame with a long bit of steel tube, with a bit of rag attached to one end to protect the frame and a block of wood / another rag at the seatpost tube to lever against. After a sustained period of swearing and knocking over of things, I got to a value of 33mm each side. Unfotunately I'd failed to account for the fact that the rear wheel doesn't really like 120mm spacing (I need an additional 2mm washer to give clearance for the likely-non-original Shimano cassette at the RD hanger) and measuring the clearances again confirmed that the frame wanted around 34mm each side of the tube with the wheel fitted; which it was duly widened out to.

After more buggering about with axle alignment and wheel dish, with the leading edge of the wheel central in the chainstays I ended up with maybe 1.5mm wheel offset towards the DS at the seatstays / rim, rather than the 5-6mm I'd had previously.

With the frame inverted the rear wheel now also looks pretty well aligned with the down tube; rather than either offset or angled relative to the tube as it was previously.


Next the front wheel was stripped, cleaned and rebuilt with original spokes, hub and nipples with the "new" ally rim. Trued on the bike as best as possible, tyre fitted.. brakes re-centred, fitted with new cheapo, ebay-sourced "Jagwire" rubber blocks and set up.

I also fitted the "new" Selle Royal saddle and punted the seatpost height up a bit.


Went out to get some eggs (there were no eggs  ) and shake the bike down.. had to play with the rear axle as the NDS evidently wasn't tight enough; allowing the wheel to skew and rub. The front wheel also has some eccentricity to it, although this looks due to tyre fit rather than a rim issue.

For those bothered the steel rims that came off weighed around 790g each while the ally replacements were around 460g - so a saving of 330g per wheel or (if my assumptions are correct) the equivalent of around 1300g saved on bike mass from an acceleration / inertia perspective. Since the new rims are geometrically similar to the old ones but their material is around 1/3rd as stiff they should also be more compliant.

The bike does seem maybe a bit more sprightly and nicer-riding, however this could be psychosomatic and ride quality isn't really a fair comparison on account of the new saddle. 

Brakes are noticeably better than the fibre pads with chrome rims (and no doubt still bedding in); being acceptable if not stellar. They do feel a lot nicer running on straight rims while the front no longer squeals 


Tbh I was looking forward to today as a cathartic and satisfying process, and while progress has been made there are still lots of little things that aren't right - although I've absolutely had enough today so they'll have to wait..


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## Gunk (26 Aug 2022)

wafter said:


> A quick / final(?) update as I can't be arsed and there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest..


 
9 pages in, I think it is fair to say that there has been a fair amount of interest.


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## wafter (26 Aug 2022)

Gunk said:


> 9 pages in, I think it is fair to say that there has been a fair amount of interest.



Certainly at the beginning; however it seems to have tailed off recently. Maybe it's the content - granted an enormous wall of text isn't very appetising, however I've had that much to do anyway stopping to take photos has become increasingly bothersome..


A hopefully-slightly-more-interesting update!

The only pic I took yesterday; being of the frame alignment tool - lashed up from fishing line, paperclips and the band that sometimes constrains a new innertube within its box. The idea was that it'd be less hassle to remove and refit, re-usable and viable for a range of different bikes.. there was smugness abound until I fitted it with the wheel in place then later casually gave the wheel a spin to check runout 









After the somewhat ragged and unfulfilling end to yesterday's proceedings I attacked the bike again this morning - re-dishing the front wheel as I'd made a cack job of it last time, tweaking the brakes a bit more and pushing the saddle height up a fair bit more after measuring it.


Nice new brake blocks; which work well and appear to be a steal at £4.99 for two pairs from (IIRC) Hopkins cycles 







The lashed up valve hole grommet is doing its job well; although who's to say how long it'll last..







I also sorted the eccentric tyre issue by depressurising it, giving it all a squeeze / tug in the right direction and re-inflating.

The magnet for the trip computer was relocated, as with it removed to tweak the spokes I noticed that the wheel had an obvious heavy spot (away from the valve, fap knows why) so I positioned it opposite to this and the wheel now looks pretty well balanced 


Following this refreshingly brief spell of pissing about I got off down the road in search of eggs. Having scored two boxes I extended the short ride a bit more than usual since it was such a fantastic morning and privilege to be out in it tbh.

Instead of following the usual forbidden path I took a longer route around the periphery of some fields that brought me out at a track that's absolutely-not-a-right-of-way, separating me from the main road back into the village..

A few photos along the way:

A short stretch of fantastic, uncomplicated gravel..







The new saddle - less uncomfortable than it was when fitted to the Fuji, but then I've only done shorter journeys. Irritatingly, if predictably its single bolt allows the back to sag at maximum layback - not sure what to do about this yet...







The front brakes now work really nicely - clearance is well setup and lever operation feels positive and clean. Unsurprisingly not on a par with a nice set of hydro discs, but perfectly adiquate stopping ability if you yank hard enough (unlike the old fibre pads and chrome rims) and I'd say surprisingly good considering they're entry level and mostly nearly as old as I am..

I was getting some vibration from the mudguard on the caliper, but this appears to have been sorted as a result of the caliper setup.







The back brake's not so hot - as is often the case the lever pull's a bit more mushy while it's reluctant to reset once the lever is released. I think a new set of cables might not be a bad idea.

Also, not sure if it's intentional but the non-adjustable calipers give a lot of toe-in.







Given all the issues associated with the knobbly 32c tyres I'd been lamenting my decision not to play it safe and spend a bit more on some 28c slicks, however today's tame off-road route allowed the cheap, ancient Routier to prove its worth on terrain that modern marketing would insist you need a gravel bike for 


The bike saw some fairly lumpy terrain today and I'm now more confident in the rims / wheel build as they seem to remain unaffected.








A much more favourable experience today than yesterday; although there are still things to be done.

I'm not overly happy with the saddle situation, while the rear brake's a bit squiffy in operation and there's a vibration from somewhere.. 

In addition the panier rack likes to migrate backwards when in use as the two clamping bolts used to secure it evidently aren't too clever.
I was going to replace them with socket cap alternatives but the thread's really, really odd (3/16"x28tpi IIRC) so it looks like I'm stuck with these. Wondering if they're bottoming out in their holes so might try some more washers.

Speaking of which, the holders for the threaded adjustors for the brakes could also do with some washers.. I have a glut of M5 items which should be near-as-dammit.

That concludes today's scintillating update 😊


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## Reynard (26 Aug 2022)

Have to admit, I do read this - always *something* to be learned by seeing how other people go about stuff, but just cos I don't comment doesn't mean I'm not paying attention... 

I'd probably replace that seatpost with a modern integrated clamp jobbie that you can adjust with an allen key. SJS Cycles sell them in a variety of diameters IIRC. Keep meaning to get one for my Max, along with a set of alloy bars.


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## Jameshow (26 Aug 2022)

Nice inspiration to to get my touring bike built. Perhaps bring it to Devon!


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## wafter (27 Aug 2022)

Reynard said:


> Have to admit, I do read this - always *something* to be learned by seeing how other people go about stuff, but just cos I don't comment doesn't mean I'm not paying attention...
> 
> I'd probably replace that seatpost with a modern integrated clamp jobbie that you can adjust with an allen key. SJS Cycles sell them in a variety of diameters IIRC. Keep meaning to get one for my Max, along with a set of alloy bars.


Thanks - not that I'm an attention whore but it seems a bit pointless if nobody's apparently reading the thread. Appreciate your confirmation that you are 

I did consider replacing the seatpost, but of course this is supposed to be a budget build so I'm reluctant to throw any more money at it than I have to..



Jameshow said:


> Nice inspiration to to get my touring bike built. Perhaps bring it to Devon!


Cheers - I trust there will be a thread when you get started..? 



up at silly O'clock this morning I did a few miles on the Fuji and swung by the LBS on the way back. Confidently proclaiming that I required an uncoated stainless brake cable inner, I was rewarded by the reassurance that these are the shop owner's preferred choice, for just the reasons I'd had in mind 

Back at home I set about the Routier once more. Once I'd got over the need to sacrifice the lovely crimped-on brass cable ends (that now reside somewhere in the garden having been ejected at speed from the side cutters), both sets of brake cables were removed and attended to.

Only one of the four cable ends had a ferrule fitted, the other three having suffered to varying degrees as a result (and maybe because I'd once turned the bike upside down to work on it without remembering that the cables exit from the top of the levers  ).

The rear cable was worst; bent, outer covering split and sitting skewed in the bush. Every time the lever was pulled it would spring upwards as the open coils of the bent section were compressed..












The damaged ends were lopped off with a cutting disc in the ever-impressive rotary tool, then all ends trued with the flat face of a grinding wheel. It appears that the cables are unlined 







While all this was going on, the existing front cable and new rear cable were cooking away nicely in the wax pan. Both cables removed had some sticky oil present (as per @Gunk's experiences!) which was removed from the one I was keeping with some paraffin. All of the immediate parts were also cleaned with paraffin and a brush - cable outer ODs, cable clamps and adjustors..

I also cleaned the cable retainers on the top tube and gave that area a bit of a wax..







Once all was as it should be the new / existing cable assemblies were refitted with new ferrules where necessary. This became quite messy as a fair bit of wax was scraped off the cable as it was passed through various bits - probably best to fit them first next time (and keep them out of the pan) in order to get the most wax into the cable outer..







The adjustors were fitted with various washers; necessary to take up some slop in the rear one which is too long where it passes through the caliper - I suspect it's non-original..













Unsurprisingly considering the calipers are German all fittings are metric - which made life a bit easier..


I'd intended to "tin" the ends of the cables with solder; so that they could be withdrawn easily at a later date without having to remove a crimped-on finisher. This were precisely zero times; the solder failing to take to the front I think because it's galvanised, and the rear presumably because it'd previously been covered in wax..







I'd removed as little cable outers as possible to get back to a good base; I think they were perhaps a shade shorter than ideal to start with and they look a bit unbalanced on the bike (despite being shortened by a similar amount).. but it's not the end of the world and it saved me having to replace them!







All back together and the brakes feel much nicer - the already decent front feeling cleaner and more snappy with a lighter pull; the rear (as usual) not as nice but again much better than it was and certainly acceptable - returing positively to its stop when released; unlike previously.


I also flipped the clamps on the saddle in the hope that it might make it "bottom out" to a more acceptable position. It didn't, however it does stay where I put it now. Problem is that its favoured orientation is a bit high at the back, which feels a bit too intimate for my liking..







A good chunk of the morning well-spent IMO; and another shifty and hitherto-untouched area of the bike acceptably sorted with a tangible improvement in ride experience as a result


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## All uphill (27 Aug 2022)

I enjoy this, too, and read every word.

That's a lovely bike and I consider reading your threads and those of other people who rejoice in low-cost cycling as preparation for my next project, whatever it is.

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences.


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## wafter (28 Aug 2022)

All uphill said:


> I enjoy this, too, and read every word.
> 
> That's a lovely bike and I consider reading your threads and those of other people who rejoice in low-cost cycling as preparation for my next project, whatever it is.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences.


Thanks - appreciate you saying so and hope you'll post similar when your next project arrives 


A few more points following yesteday's post..

It seems my attempts to apply solder to the ends of the cables failed for two reasons - stainless apparently won't take solder at all, while galvanised cables apparently will - however I think I ruined everything by over-cooking them with a propane torch (I don't have a soldering iron)..

I also noticed that the front cable adjustor is apparently missing a locking nut, which obviously wants addressing at some point but I'm not in a hurry to pull it all to bits again.


Finally I did a bit more research on the brake calipers. The front is apparently an *edit* Weinmann 720, the back a Weinmann 730A. I'm not sure of the difference or if the latter is original / has been retro-fitted for some reason..

I'm also not sure if the caliper on the rear is legit or a copy - it seems that after Weinmann went to the wall in the early '90s various far eastern manufacturers continued selling copies of their calipers using the same naming convention. Neither caliper appears to have the Weinmann brand marked on them, but it seems that this might have been something that disappeared as the products were gradually cheapened over the years..


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## Oldhippy (28 Aug 2022)

Excellent and proves again you don't need to spends fortunes and learning new stuff is good. Great thread.


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## wafter (29 Aug 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> Excellent and proves again you don't need to spends fortunes and learning new stuff is good. Great thread.



Thanks - it's certainly been a valuable, if sometimes frustrating learning experience 



I've just wheeled the bike over the road to the car in preparation for returning it to work tomorrow; and couldn't resist a quick blast round the village in the fading light..

Other than the back tyre still rubbing a shade when rolling and more when under power it feels pretty nice; and certainly a lot closer to a decent bike than a clunky deathtrap, as it certainly was when I first got it and until recently to an extent on account of the wheels / brakes.

It actually feels pretty sprightly now and noticeably more responsive when smashing it up a hill out of the saddle; although from the numbers (let's say it's lost 1.5% effective mass from total in the wheels, from an acceleration standpoint) I'm not sure as I'd actually be able to notice this.. so it's potentially all psychological.


I do think the new saddle's made it look no end better (not nec. a good thing!) and I really love the way it looks now - IMO a lot classier than the rest of the entry-level gaspipe Raleigh offerings of the same vintage. For the moment it's potentially increased theivability is offset by the fact I'll not be locking it up in the street / anywhere shifty for the forseeable; although it will be kept in a mate's garden. 

They live in a more crimey part of town but it will be under a cover, the gardens are fairly enclosed and they have a big shouty dog.. so fingers' crossed it'll still be in my possession by the time I get to move back to the city; if this ever happens..


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## GTZaskar (16 Oct 2022)

Really enjoyed reading about your project.

I’ve come to own one of these bikes as my Father’s friend passed this on to him. It hasn’t been used since 1989.

We’ve put on new wheels and tyres and managed to get it working. It needs a lot of work but rides very harsh. Does your bike ride comfortably on bad roads?

You wouldn’t know the seat post dimensions? 

I’m hoping a to replace the original post and saddle to damp it down a little.


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## wafter (16 Oct 2022)

GTZaskar said:


> Really enjoyed reading about your project.
> 
> I’ve come to own one of these bikes as my Father’s friend passed this on to him. It hasn’t been used since 1989.
> 
> ...



Thanks and nice work with yours 

End of the day it's an entry-level gaspipe frame so it's never going to give a super-smooth ride, however the saddle plays a large part in this. If yours is like mine it's not got rails and the clamp attaches very rigidly to the plastic underside of the seat, which gives very little compliance.

Replacing my saddle helped a lot in this regard (plus I couldn't get as much layback as required) so I think you're on the right track. The seatpost is the standard old-school stepped affair that you should be able to get a clamp / saddle for; no need to replace the whole post. Not sure on the size but I think it might be something a bit odd; which is another reason to hang onto the original.

I trust you'll be starting a thread on yours at some point..?


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## wafter (29 Oct 2022)

Sadly with circumstances as they are the bike has become a bit of a study in the effects of living outside 

As it stands the Routier shares a bike-tarp with two others outside at the office. I've been keeping a close eye on it, and while it's fared fairly well on the whole, I've noticed the odd spot of corrosion - most notably on the chainset but also on the chain and seatpost, which already had a light rash on it.

In an effort to arrest the brown pox I've cleaned up the chainset with some fine wire wool and treated it with a DIY wax paste of 50/50 paraffin wax and oil by mass. This has also been applied to the seatpost too. Hopefully this will prevent, or at least slow the corrosion.. I guess time will tell. 

In other news I think I hate the gears, as I spent most of my time on the small chainring / probably middle three sprockets on the back, so tbh given the silly (for a town bike) 50/40 chainset I'd probably be better off with a single 38 or 40 on the front..

Finally I'm paying for my decision to chuck the whole cassette into the wax pan when rebuilding the rear wheel... on the one hand it's done a great job of preventing corrosion as intended, on the other I think the wax has found its way into the freewheel - making its action somewhat lazy and resulting in a slack chain during coasting. Not the end of the world, but probably something that will warrant the freewheel stripping to sort out...


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## Gunk (29 Oct 2022)

Buy some ACF50 and treat all the chrome parts


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## wafter (29 Oct 2022)

Gunk said:


> Buy some ACF50 and treat all the chrome parts



Thanks - I did look at that but baulked at the cost somewhat. I'll see how the DIY stuff goes and if I still end up with corrosion I might put my hand in my pocket for some proper stuff as I suspect it could have other applications - treating the inside of frames etc. It would be good to have some sort of corrosion protection that's not oil of grease.


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