# knees hitting the dropbar ends



## Torvi (11 Dec 2014)

any way to solve it? i tend to hit dropbar ends pretty often while stand-sprint, will stem raisers do anything?


----------



## jim55 (11 Dec 2014)

Longer stem?


----------



## rualexander (11 Dec 2014)

Wider bars


----------



## Profpointy (11 Dec 2014)

sounds like an adult bike rather than child size !

Pish taking aside, it does sound like the bike is a bit small, or at least set up too small for you


----------



## Torvi (11 Dec 2014)

it's 51cm frame bike im 176cm high, handlebars does really seem thin when im looking at them from when i sprint. might be worth to mention i also lean forward alot while sprinting, before it wasnt happeing.


----------



## mcshroom (11 Dec 2014)

Depends on the manufacturer, but that sounds pretty small for your height. I'm the same height and would be looking at a 54/56cm frame usually


----------



## voyager (12 Dec 2014)

There is obviously something wrong with your riding position :- either your seat is too far forward , the bars are too near or too narrow , Can I suggest a photo of you on the bike might give us a clue in helping you out . 


The starting point to set up your ideal riding position is 
The distance from the nose of the saddle to the bars should be the distance from the back of your elbow to your finger tips away , with your knee directly above the pedal spindle in the forward position , .the standard bar width on a small frame could be a lot narrower than you need , the trend when I was racing was to have a small frame as they were more rigid. 

regards emma


----------



## Torvi (12 Dec 2014)

it is my first road bike so might be right that i went into too small frame, whatever  im already looking after some better bike 

@voyager read my 1st post once again it's written there *standing-sprint* nothing wrong happens on sitting position but when i sprint off the saddle i tend to lean very hard forward and there my knees hits ends


----------



## voyager (12 Dec 2014)

I read your first post first ...

..the comments made *are to get your bars in the right position *!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

regards emma


----------



## Torvi (12 Dec 2014)

yes i know messy room.


----------



## jack smith (12 Dec 2014)

Frames too small going by the saddle height


----------



## Cyclist33 (12 Dec 2014)

roll the bars up for one thing. you might also be able to get a cm or so sawn off each drop end..?


----------



## voyager (12 Dec 2014)

Assuming the saddle is in the right position I have to agree that the frame looks too small for you 
4 or 5 inches of seat pin was the ideal setting when l was racing , bars look too low , an inch chopped off the rear of the bars might be a temporary fix .

regards emma


----------



## Torvi (12 Dec 2014)

like i said im going to get a better bike anyway, its stock halfords budget bike 14sp, now im aiming for 22sp carbon. 105 11sp groupsets aint that bad as i read and totally pointless to go dura, im just cycling for enjoyement not for begin pro... for now.


----------



## SpokeyDokey (12 Dec 2014)

Torvi said:


> like i said im going to get a better bike anyway, its stock halfords budget bike 14sp, now im aiming for 22sp carbon. 105 11sp groupsets aint that bad as i read and totally pointless to go dura, im just cycling for enjoyement not for begin pro... for now.



I'm struggling to make sense of that.


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Dec 2014)

Torvi said:


> like i said im going to get a better bike anyway...im just cycling for enjoyement not for begin pro... for now.



So why ask?


----------



## vickster (12 Dec 2014)

Bike is too small for you, try a longer stem, different bars or stay in the saddle. Or sell the bike and get one that fits


----------



## outlash (12 Dec 2014)

Cyclist33 said:


> roll the bars up for one thing.



This. Droopy bars don't impress the ladies .


Tony.


----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Dec 2014)

The distance from your knee to the pedal is not going to change, the pedal is not going to move out of its little orbit. So I can only imagine that the bars are turning excessively when you sprint/start, which would also imply you're wasting energy by not going in a straight line. You may need to be pulling up on the handlebars a little earlier and concentrating on keeping the sway down to a minimum.

I have a bike with bar end changers and I have been known to accidentally change gears when manoeuvring the bike but never under normal use.

EDIT: Agree with other posts about twisting the bars a little. It'll raise you a little when you're riding on the hoods but you can bend your elbows a little more.


----------



## raleighnut (12 Dec 2014)

+1 for rotate the bars to move the bottom section forwards, plus the bike looks way too small set up like that in the piccies. Can you even use the drops when climbing?


----------



## shouldbeinbed (12 Dec 2014)

as with the rest. your bar looks as if it is loose and gravity has taken effect. roll it up so the whole top bit to the hoods is pretty well flat & the bar ends are more plumb line level with the tops and it'll help as a) they'll be further away from your knees and b) you won't be as tipped forwards when on the hoods or drops pushing your whole body, including knees more into proximity with the bars. There does look a bit of leeway to trim some off the ends too without bothering your grip on drops which would help more too.

But it is clear from the seatpost alone that you're far too big for the frame. I'd give this one up as a mistaken purchase, sell it on and go with your plan to buy a different bike.

No disrespect to Halfords intended, I'm not one of the hate 'em just because gang, but I'd strongly suggest you go to a 'proper' local bike shop (LBS in abbreviated form on here) so you can sit on a few, take some advice on fitting and what bike geometry will suit your riding style, rather then return to the people that saw your height and still let you leave the shop with that bike, or buying online sight unseen from a rough idea measurement 52.54.56 whatever.

Also before you do pay out for a new one, have a bit of a google on frame sizes vs body height etc and learn a little bit about sizing and set up to help inform yourself when you do go looking because as much as Halfords let you leave with the wrong size bike, it was still you that left with it.


----------



## Cycleops (12 Dec 2014)

That seat post looks to at the limit if it's adjustment. If you continue riding it like that you risk stressing/cracking the seat tube.


----------



## Venod (12 Dec 2014)

Cycleops said:


> That seat post looks to at the limit if it's adjustment. If you continue riding it like that you risk stressing/cracking the seat tube.



Seat posts are designed to be ridden at their limit of adjustment, its when you go beyond it becomes a problem.


----------



## Gravity Aided (12 Dec 2014)

Sounds to me like the seat post is at it's limit of adjustment, and the OP is still having problems with the size of the bicycle. Selling the bike to a shorter rider and getting a larger one seems like a good plan.


----------



## steveindenmark (12 Dec 2014)

Ask at your lbs. They are the experts and can see both you and your bike in the flesh.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (12 Dec 2014)

Afnug said:


> Seat posts are designed to be ridden at _upto_ their limit of adjustment, its when you go beyond it becomes a problem.



_pedantic change. _

TBH I'd be surprised from the photo if the post wasn't bang on or past the minimum insert line, there is a lot of it on display.


----------



## Turbo Rider (12 Dec 2014)

Ok, this might sound a bit radical and you'll probably have to get a referal from your GP, but have you thought about getting a chunk cut out of your legs? Can probably get it done for free on the NHs these days


----------



## Cyclist33 (12 Dec 2014)

Gravity Aided said:


> Sounds to me like the seat post is at it's limit of adjustment, and the OP is still having problems with the size of the bicycle. Selling the bike to a shorter rider and getting a larger one seems like a good plan.



You can always get a longer seatpost. There *are* people of all shapes and sizes, and that bike is by no means the most outlandish I've seen in terms of the differential between saddle height and handlebar height!


----------



## Mugshot (12 Dec 2014)




----------



## deptfordmarmoset (12 Dec 2014)

Saddle height is not going to help the OP's knees though. I just got on the turbo to see whether I could replicate the effect on a bike that's just a wee bit small for me. And I can almost manage it (can hit the tops though) but the bars have to be at an unrideable angle with the toe pointing straight down.


----------



## Gravity Aided (12 Dec 2014)

Cyclist33 said:


> You can always get a longer seatpost. There *are* people of all shapes and sizes, and that bike is by no means the most outlandish I've seen in terms of the differential between saddle height and handlebar height!



Perhaps not the most outlandish, but that's missing the point. It is obviously, by the op ' s post, not working out well in this configuration. To solve this, more room is needed.


----------



## Cyclist33 (12 Dec 2014)

Gravity Aided said:


> Perhaps not the most outlandish, but that's missing the point. It is obviously, by the op ' s post, not working out well in this configuration. To solve this, more room is needed.



Okay, but that isn't the same as blanket saying that the bike's too small on the basis of a picture of a bike with a well-extended seatpost and low relative handlebar position.

The point, which is what I think has been missed, is that not everyone benefits from a more neutral position. In my own case, though I hardly class myself as flexible or even particularly fit, all attempts to level or neutralise my ride positions have left me painfully unwilling to get on the bikes, by contrast I have found that by pushing my post out and the saddle roughly central, then dropping the bars an inch or so down, I have reached a good balance between performance and comfort.

I read the OP before I started commenting and from this and the photo it seems fairly clear that a) the issue arises when out of the saddle and therefore any opinions on whether the saddle is in the right place are moot, and b) the issue can only be solved on this particular bike if the OP rolled the drops upwards and/or fitted a longer stem. Since we have no anatomical data on the OP any other suggestions would also be moot.


----------



## Cycleops (12 Dec 2014)

Turbo Rider said:


> Ok, this might sound a bit radical and you'll probably have to get a referal from your GP, but have you thought about getting a chunk cut out of your legs? Can probably get it done for free on the NHs these days


I think you've got your wires a bit crossed. The NHS likes to add stuff on rather than cutting it off, and that's to boobs not legs! And only then if you're going to be a glamour model.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (12 Dec 2014)

I think the bike diagnosis is based on several things beyond the simple picture, albeit it is an extreme and uncomfortable looking set up. The height and bike size mentioned in the OP and the fact it is damnably hard to crack your knees off the front end of a bike going in a straight line or even a moderate turn out of the saddle or not as neither the pedal cranks nor the OP's legs will be changing length nor connection to one another and it would be a heck of an odd almost crouched position to be getting into out of the saddle to be pointing the lower legs that far forwards on a well fitted frame. Allied to the subsequent photo giving the impression that if foot to backside height has to be augmented with such an extension of seatpost then by extension (no pun) the horizontal length of the frame is going to be commensurate to the shorter vertical height and would require a far longer stem tube to make the bike fit the body.


----------



## Turbo Rider (12 Dec 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I think you've got your wires a bit crossed. The NHS likes to add stuff on rather than cutting it off, and that's to boobs not legs! And only then if you're going to be a glamour model.


 
Well he could get boobs grafted onto his knees in that case then, to cushion the blow.


----------



## ayceejay (12 Dec 2014)

It seems obvious that the frame is too small for normal use but what beats me is why a beginner feels the need to adopt a position I have only ever seen pros in a bunch sprint use. 
In this picture of Mark Cavendish you can see the position in question, there is a fair amount of seat post showing and a long stem yet his knees are closer to his elbows that handlebars could it be that the OP gets out of the saddle and drops his position rather than what Cavendish is doing ie same height but further forward?


----------



## Venod (12 Dec 2014)

Turbo Rider said:


> Well he could get boobs grafted onto his knees in that case then, to cushion the blow.



Don't be a tit.


----------



## raleighnut (12 Dec 2014)

He's only banging his knees STANDING UP, the seatpost is just an indicator that the frames too small which a longer top tube (on a bigger frame) could cure.


----------



## Cuchilo (12 Dec 2014)

My knees can hit the tops when sprinting . I guess if you cycle with your knees kicking out rather than in line you could hit the drops .


----------



## Firestorm (12 Dec 2014)

ayceejay said:


> View attachment 74211
> 
> It seems obvious that the frame is too small for normal use but what beats me is why a beginner feels the need to adopt a position I have only ever seen pros in a bunch sprint use.
> In this picture of Mark Cavendish you can see the position in question, there is a fair amount of seat post showing and a long stem yet his knees are closer to his elbows that handlebars could it be that the OP gets out of the saddle and drops his position rather than what Cavendish is doing ie same height but further forward?


If Cav had his bars rotated like the O/p's picture he may bang his knees
Seems to be the place to start before spending any money


----------



## cyberknight (12 Dec 2014)

My knees go inside my elbows when on the drops, on the hoods my elbows are maybe 2-3 inches in front of the knees .


----------



## Torvi (12 Dec 2014)

ayceejay said:


> View attachment 74211
> 
> It seems obvious that the frame is too small for normal use but what beats me is why a beginner feels the need to adopt a position I have only ever seen pros in a bunch sprint use.
> In this picture of Mark Cavendish you can see the position in question, there is a fair amount of seat post showing and a long stem yet his knees are closer to his elbows that handlebars could it be that the OP gets out of the saddle and drops his position rather than what Cavendish is doing ie same height but further forward?



my sprinting does looks similiar to it, tough instead of using drops i lean on shifters
Thanks for all the replies, didnt tought that it will make sucha brainstorm around.


----------



## Browser (15 Dec 2014)

My two pen'orth, the sweep of the drop section of the bars extends well back past the top (horizontal) section of the bars, and while I realise that this is not unusual there are lots of different profiles available so swapping the bars for some with a less rearward sweep would help alleviate the problem.


----------



## briantrumpet (21 Dec 2014)

Another one to recommend rotating the handlebars forward a bit. You'll gain a couple of inches of clearance if you get the tops horizontal. You could also try a slightly longer stem (mine's 130mm) - although the bike does sound a bit small for your height, this might make it less knee-unfriendly. Here's my set-up:


----------



## Arrowfoot (22 Dec 2014)

Seriously undersized. 176cm height means at least size 56.


----------



## briantrumpet (22 Dec 2014)

Arrowfoot said:


> Seriously undersized. 176cm height means at least size 56.


Hmm, not that far out, I'd have thought ... I'm 180cm, and the bike above is a 54, and my other nice bike a 56. Though it does depend on the geometry a bit.


----------



## vickster (22 Dec 2014)

I'm 178cm and ride 54cm bikes with a 100mm stem. I don't like being overstretched. That said, being female, I probably have shorter arms and torso, and longer legs


----------



## MickeyBlueEyes (23 Dec 2014)

Arrowfoot said:


> Seriously undersized. 176cm height means at least size 56.


 Then my bike is waaaay to small! 
I don't think you can be too generic with sizing i.e. the total height of a person means this size frame. I mean how do you split that up? I'm short legged, 30/30.5 inside leg but have a longer upper body. How does that compare with a guy who is the same height, 5' 10", but with a 34" inside leg but shorter upper body? 
I was always taught it was the relationship between hands/hips/feet that were the bits to concentrate on. Frame size is just one contributor to this.


----------



## Fab Foodie (23 Dec 2014)

Torvi said:


> yes i know messy room.



Point of order .... indoor bike photos should only be taken in the kitchen. It's the rools ....


----------



## Fab Foodie (23 Dec 2014)

vickster said:


> I'm 178cm and ride 54cm bikes with a 100mm stem. I don't like being overstretched. That said, being female, I probably have shorter arms and torso, and longer legs


IIRC, women are on average proportionally similar to men in the general population, however, women tend to have less hip articulation/rotation and so tend to favour shorter top-tubes/reach as a result.


----------



## cyberknight (23 Dec 2014)

Just to throw a spanner in the works I ride a 52 with a 100 stem or my commuter has a 54 top tube with a 80 stem,seat height is 69 cm to Bb,reach is 51 to ctr of of bars. I am 170 cm with a 30 inch inseam.I did try. a 1 cm longer stem and felt too stretched on the drops. set back from bb is 4 cm.I do think I could increase saddle to bar drop though as I ride mainly on the hoods with elbows fully bent.


----------

