# Condor Heritage or Surly LHT?



## jorgemartin (2 Feb 2013)

Trying to decide between two Touring framsets:
- Condor Heritage
- Surly LHT

I've been to Condor cycles in London today. Their touring model, the Heritage, is beautiful (I think it's hand made in Italy). Price for the frame set is 600 pounds (frame, fork and headset). Having seen the bike jig, I'm certain I would get a bike that fits perfectly. I'd buy the frameset and build up the rest slowly. One of the big advantages of buying at Condor would be knowing exactly stem length, stack height, etc. Great. The only caveat is the prize. Having said that, I would be happy to pay for a quality, durable product that fits.

Been to another shop to check out the Surly LHT. Looks quality too... and visually attractive. And I've tried the 60 and the 62 cm frames. The 62 looks like a good fit. Price for the frameset is £375. Significantly cheaper than the Heritage. I'd be happy to buy this frameset but I'm afraid I'd be missing on the bike fitting service that Condor offers. Similar bikes, big difference in price, worried about buying the surly and not beng the best fit. Am I being overly fastidious? The Surly shops seems to be a bit more laid back about sizing, compared to the more serious jig at Condor. Is this worth the £225 price difference?

Any thoughts welcome. Cheers!


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## Cycleops (2 Feb 2013)

The Condor name does carry a certain kudos and that would certainly influence me. Surly is from the US isn't it? The thing that would put me off the Condor was that I read on one of the forums, might have been on here, of a guy who bought a complete touring bike from them and the frame failed after only about twelve months and they refused to replace it. Astonishing. I wouln't have thought it possible but there you go.


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## BigonaBianchi (2 Feb 2013)

I think you can get it to fit fine as long as you have th eright frame size to start with..but I didnt like th e surely lht's i saw in america...heavy and slow compared to my galaxy


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## P.H (2 Feb 2013)

BigonaBianchi said:


> I think you can get it to fit fine as long as you have th eright frame size to start with..but I didnt like th e surely lht's i saw in america...heavy and slow compared to my galaxy


 
Wasn't it you trying to swap your Galaxy for a different size shortly after buying it?


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## jorgemartin (2 Feb 2013)

Surly is from the US. Frames made in Taiwan (like most bicycle things these days). Condor is from London and frames are made in Italy. I read on a forum about a guy who had his fame replaced at Condor... I don't know I guess it depends on the circumstances, if you throw your bike off a cliff one day after you buy it, then you probably wouldn't have that replaced... I think both bikes are equal as far as weight, and I like the looks of both. It's the thing about the bike fitting that might be the decisive factor in the end for me... Cheers.


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## P.H (2 Feb 2013)

I cycled for about 10 years before getting a bike fit when I bought a Hewitt. Although I was happy enough on the bikes I'd sized and chosen myself, the changes Paul Hewitt made have proved over the last 10 years to have been the right ones. I can't remember how much that bike cost. I still consider it to be a great bike, I'm sure I could have bought a cheaper alternative, I'd have saved a bit then and it wouldn't matter a jot now and I'd still have the cheaper bike. If you start with the idea that you're going to get a lot of use out of it over a long period of time, an extra couple of hundred quid getting what you want isn't really significant.
Having said that, bike fit and bike sizing are not as closely linked as they were with more traditional designs. I have three bikes, size 58, 60 and 61, the riding position and fit is identical.
I had a LHT for a while, it was a very capable tourer, very comfortable and stable, but I didn't really enjoy riding it unloaded. I have no experience of the Heritage other than knowing a couple of satisfied owners.


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## Cycleops (2 Feb 2013)

BigonaBianchi said:


> I think you can get it to fit fine as long as you have th eright frame size to start with..but I didnt like th e surely lht's i saw in america...heavy and slow compared to my galaxy



Yes, just the name conjures up an image of heavy and slow.


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## musa (2 Feb 2013)

As rocky mountain mentioned hit brixton cycles they the official dealer for surly and the guys there are great


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## Sillyoldman (3 Feb 2013)

If you wanted to consider disk brakes, Surly LHT is available with the frame braze ons to allow disk brakes to be fitted. Maybe worthwhile consideration if you plan to load up with plenty gear.


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## Bikerchick (3 Feb 2013)

I toured France last year for 4 weeks on my Surly LHT with not a single mechanical. Would definitely recommend it.


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## lulubel (3 Feb 2013)

Based on my experience of owning a Surly Crosscheck, I wouldn't bother looking further than Surly if I was looking for a tough tourer that will last. If I was looking for an expedition tourer (or I was just expecting to have a fairly hefty load), I'd choose the Disc Trucker. If I was looking for something with more off-road capability or to build with something other than drop bars, I'd probably choose the Surly Troll, which Surly have made some changes to this year in recognition of the fact that people like touring on them.

I considered Condor's Fratello when I was looking for a new bike (and eventually decided on the Crosscheck) and I don't have anything negative to say about their presales service. I came very close to buying, but the price tipped it for me in the end. The Fratello frame and fork was going to cost about £700 shipped to Spain. I could get the Crosscheck frame and fork for just under £300 with free shipping from Wiggle.

I've never been fitted for a bike, and I'm comfortable on both my bikes (now - it took some experimenting and changing components, but nowhere near the cost of a bike fit), so I certainly wouldn't think the bike fit is worth the extra cost. Some people will disagree, of course.


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## Crankarm (3 Feb 2013)

I have purchased bikes from Condor in the past and have nothing but praise for them. Haven't used them for a few years as I don't go down to London much now. Why don't you just pay Condor for a bike fit then get which bike you feel most comfortable on? I take it you have actually ridden a Surly LHT? The thing I didn't like about the LHT when checked them out to see what all the fuss is about is that the rear disc brake caliper is NOT inside the rear triangle meaning mounting of a rear rack is problematic. So a major fail IMHO for a bike that is aimed at serious touring expedition when serious amounts of kit will be carried. The Surly Troll is a contender but I didn't like the frame and I could never buy a bike with such a negative name. So now I have a Kona Kula adapted for commuting and expedition. I very nearly bought a Civia Bryant as it had disc brakes and rear internal hub gears with belt drive but the hub was only an Alfine 8 speed and I wanted to buy just the frame and build it up with a Rohloff hub but the shop and Civia REFUSED to sell me frame only despite me asking them to come up with a reasonable figure. How mad is that a bike company refusing to sell you a frame and forks! They must be making more money than they know what to do with! Nutz.


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## lulubel (4 Feb 2013)

Crankarm said:


> The Surly Troll is a contender but I didn't like the frame and I could never buy a bike with such a negative name


 
I suspect they were thinking of the Troll that lives under the bridge rather than internet trolls.

Or perhaps they were thinking of the playable race of Trolls in World of Warcraft, which are rather funky and cool.

(The fact that they called its big brother the Ogre supports either of these.)


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## Alberto (4 Feb 2013)

Crankarm said:


> I have purchased bikes from Condor in the past and have nothing but praise for them. Haven't used them for a few years as I don't go down to London much now. Why don't you just pay Condor for a bike fit then get which bike you feel most comfortable on? I take it you have actually ridden a Surly LHT? The thing I didn't like about the LHT when checked them out to see what all the fuss is about is that the rear disc brake caliper is NOT inside the rear triangle meaning mounting of a rear rack is problematic. So a major fail IMHO for a bike that is aimed at serious touring expedition when serious amounts of kit will be carried. The Surly Troll is a contender but I didn't like the frame and I could never buy a bike with such a negative name. So now I have a Kona Kula adapted for commuting and expedition. I very nearly bought a Civia Bryant as it had disc brakes and rear internal hub gears with belt drive but the hub was only an Alfine 8 speed and I wanted to buy just the frame and build it up with a Rohloff hub but the shop and Civia REFUSED to sell me frame only despite me asking them to come up with a reasonable figure. How mad is that a bike company refusing to sell you a frame and forks! They must be making more money than they know what to do with! Nutz.


 
The rear caliper of the disc trucker is on the inside of the rear triangle







I own a normal LHT (26 inch wheels) that I built myself and although I have not put more than 2000 miles on it, my experiences are all positive. Feels very stable when loaded and depending on the setup you go for, can be had for under £1000. I too like the Condor, but for that money you can get various custom made steel frames. Regarding the bike fit, I do not think is that crucial. I've never had one and feel comfortable doing long days on all my bikes. You can take measurements from your current bikes and adapt them to your new rig easily (or else, take a close look at their angles etc from their specs and choose appropriate)


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## Crankarm (4 Feb 2013)

Alberto said:


> The rear caliper of the disc trucker is on the inside of the rear triangle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Oooops ...........

I see the real reason I discounted it. Vertical rear dropouts only. For Rohloff hub horizontal drop outs are best, otherwise with vertical drop outs a concentric BB or chain tensioner and torque arm is needed = faff.


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## jjb (5 Feb 2013)

I once got fitted for shoes at a specialist running shop and came out with a pair two sizes too big.

I think both these bikes are winners and you should allow visuals to sway you in this choice. I'd struggle to pick. Often the only way to be decisive in such a matter is to be very fickle. I can't see the racing green paint frame on the Condor site, which irks a bit, so on that basis alone, I'd pick the LHT. But only if it were available in that blue colour still. Actually, you might give the LHT a whirl for 5 years then swap in the Condor for a bit, just for fun. Harder to go the other direction maybe, cheap frame to dear frame, so, yes, my vote is for LHT first.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 Feb 2013)

jjb said:


> I once got fitted for shoes at a specialist running shop and came out with a pair two sizes too big.
> 
> I think both these bikes are winners and you should allow visuals to sway you in this choice. I'd struggle to pick. Often the only way to be decisive in such a matter is to be very fickle. I can't see the racing green paint frame on the Condor site, which irks a bit, so on that basis alone, I'd pick the LHT. But only if it were available in that blue colour still. Actually, you might give the LHT a whirl for 5 years then swap in the Condor for a bit, just for fun. Harder to go the other direction maybe, cheap frame to dear frame, so, yes, my vote is for LHT first.


Yes, it's a shame there's no photo of the green Condor. But it has to be said, if I ever notice a bike and think ''that's a lovely looking bike,'' it very often turns out to be a Condor.


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## jorgemartin (5 Feb 2013)

Thanks all for the advice. I have decided to go for the Condor Heritage. Why?

- The main deciding factor had to be the fitting service offered at Condor. You choose a saddle, a type of handlebar and you sit on the jig. Not only they tell you frame size but reach, stack height, stem length, handlebar width, saddle height... This information is very valuable to me as I spend a lot of time on the bike and comfort is paramount... I went down to Brixton cycles and the sizing advice was a bit more casual than I would like it to be... They suggested a 62 cm frame, of which they had a complete bike in the store. It seemed all-right but I was afraid that it would be too big. 5 minutes of cycling in the vicinity of the bike shop could not provide reliable information as to the long term effect of sitting on the saddle for extended periods of time. The frame suggested at Condor Cycles is 58 cm... which comes as a bit of a surprise to me, being 193 cms tall (with an in-seam of 94 cms).

- Both bikes are very attractive. The Condor is probably the better looking one. In fact, I think it is stunning. I love it in British Racing Green. Surly LHT at the moment is only available in black and grey.

- Condor is a London-based business. Their shop is a mere 15 minutes ride away from home and their frames are made in Italy. Surly is US-based and their frames are made in Taiwan. Having the choice, local-European sounds more attractive than US-Taiwanese... 

Cheers!


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## jjb (5 Feb 2013)

Sounds good, well thought through! The local / Italian thing too, very good point. Sounds like a fine excuse for a tour out to Italy some day.


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## deptfordmarmoset (5 Feb 2013)

Pics asap


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## Crankarm (6 Feb 2013)

Nice bikes Condors. I 'm sure you and your Heritage will be very happy together.


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## P.H (6 Feb 2013)

I think between those two, I'd have made the same choice fro similar reasons. Hope it provides many miles and smiles.


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## jorgemartin (23 Jun 2013)

The Heritage bike on the M41 ("Silk Road"). Noman's land between Kyrgysztan and Tajikistan. Kyzyl Art pass. Trailer: Carry Freedom Y-Frame.


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## Sterba (24 Jun 2013)

Wise choice


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## P.H (24 Jun 2013)

Looks great, very purposeful. I don't usually see them with such big tyres, good to see they have the option. Hope you're still happy with it.


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## jorgemartin (24 Jun 2013)

Used 700x45 tyres which just about fit with modified mudguards. Condor recommend 37c tyres. I guess that this is a bike that feels more comfortable on smooth European thoroughfares than than on rough exotic roads but did a good job. 50 mm tyres would've been better.


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