# Foot pain. Morton's neuroma?



## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

Hi all,

I've always used flat pedals without any issue whatsoever but recently decided to get some SPDs (Shimano M520) and shoes (Giro Cylinder) and after about 30min on the bike I start getting some pain under my right foot, roughly between the 3rd and 4th toes and toes start going numb. The pain only gets worse the further I ride and often persists for a couple of days afterwards.

Before getting these shoes I tried different models and sizes and these seemed the most comfortable at the time...

I've now tried quite a few things suggested online and by LBS to try and sort this issue but feel like I've exhausted my options (bar getting a new pair of shoes!) Have tried loosing up the straps/dials, playing with cleat position, different socks, Specialized footbeds and wedges...!

I feel like I did get some improvement from some of these things, namely the footbeds but the problem has not gone away and I've now gone back to using flat pedals as I'm worried about permanent damage to the foot.

From online research it seems like Morton's neuroma might be the issue but it's a bit strange that no other activity or pedals make it flair up.

Has anyone else experienced something similar? 

I was thinking of booking a shoe fitting session somewhere but, as far as I'm aware that's normally something that comes before purchasing new shoes, not as a way of fixing existing ones.

Any other suggestions or things I can try? I'd really like to be able to go clipless!

Many thanks!


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## ColinJ (1 Oct 2020)

I had similar problems with a couple of pairs of Shimano shoes. I posted about this a couple of days ago...



ColinJ said:


> I find Shimano sizing really bad with my wide-ish feet. I need to go up about 1.5 sizes to get the width. My current shoes are +2 sizes. There is a gap beyond my toes, but the rest of each foot fits really well so they don't slide forwards. The result is surprisingly comfortably. Definitely try on before buying, or buy from somewhere with free returns.





ColinJ said:


> My feet got badly squeezed across their widest parts by Shimano shoes my normal size. I had to take a month off the bike after riding for an hour or two!


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Oct 2020)

Shimano SPD shoes come in 5 width sizings based on model. You need to select an appropriate model for the shape of your foot.


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Oct 2020)

le_al_khemista said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've always used flat pedals without any issue whatsoever but recently decided to get some SPDs (Shimano M520) and shoes (Giro Cylinder) and after about 30min on the bike I start getting some pain under my right foot, roughly between the 3rd and 4th toes and toes start going numb. The pain only gets worse the further I ride and often persists for a couple of days afterwards.
> 
> ...



Oddly, I had this exact same pain in my right foot about 2 months ago. I'm not allowed to use Dr Google anymore (long story won't bore you with it) and Lovely Wife deals with these matters. She came to a similar 'interim' conclusion although there has been no formal diagnosis. The pain only lasted for a few days but it did hurt a lot. Apparently it can start, go away or at least not hurt, and then return as it develops further.

Time will tell....  If/when it returns a GP visit will follow.

Good luck with getting things sorted but you should see your GP if you are convinced it is MN as eventually surgical intervention may be required.


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## kingrollo (1 Oct 2020)

These cure it for me.

footpads

I have northwave shoes which are wider - go up sizes as appropriate.


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## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I had similar problems with a couple of pairs of Shimano shoes. I posted about this a couple of days ago...



So did going 2 sizes up sort the problem for you? I did go for a size up when I bought the Giro shoes but maybe that wasn't enough!


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## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Shimano SPD shoes come in 5 width sizings based on model. You need to select an appropriate model for the shape of your foot.



The ones I have are Giro Cylinder which I don't think come in different widths, I could be wrong.


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## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Oddly, I had this exact same pain in my right foot about 2 months ago. I'm not allowed to use Dr Google anymore (long story won't bore you with it) and Lovely Wife deals with these matters. She came to a similar 'interim' conclusion although there has been no formal diagnosis. The pain only lasted for a few days but it did hurt a lot. Apparently it can start, go away or at least not hurt, and then return as it develops further.
> 
> Time will tell....  If/when it returns a GP visit will follow.
> 
> Good luck with getting things sorted but you should see your GP if you are convinced it is MN as eventually surgical intervention may be required.



The pain has totally gone away for me after being on flat pedals for a week or so but I'm certain will come back if changing back to the SPDs.

Have mentioned it to the GP in passing and they suggested a phone consultation with a physiotherapist due to Covid, not sure how much that's going to help...

Hopefully you'll stay pain free, good luck!


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## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

kingrollo said:


> These cure it for me.
> 
> footpads
> 
> I have northwave shoes which are wider - go up sizes as appropriate.



Doesn't that feel a bit awkward when cycling? 

Thick winter socks help quite a bit due to extra cushioning.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Oct 2020)

Don't go up sizes to accommodate foot width, just get proper fitting shoes. You're asking for problems doing anything else


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## kingrollo (1 Oct 2020)

le_al_khemista said:


> Doesn't that feel a bit awkward when cycling?
> 
> Thick winter socks help quite a bit due to extra cushioning.



No don't notice it really. better than that horrible stiff bone feeling


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Oct 2020)

le_al_khemista said:


> The ones I have are Giro Cylinder which I don't think come in different widths, I could be wrong.



Each model fits into one of five width / shape formats. So you’d need to change model to get a wider fit / better fit etc.


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## ColinJ (1 Oct 2020)

le_al_khemista said:


> So did going 2 sizes up sort the problem for you?


Yes, it did. I ended up with bigger than usual gaps in front of my toes, but the rest of each shoe is a snug fit so my feet don't slide forward. Obviously, if the shoes were loose and my feet _did _move, that would cause problems. As it is, it is a bit like wearing well-fitting sandals - my feet stay where they should do but my toes have plenty of room. I have ridden thousands of kms in the shoes and they feel great.

It shouldn't be necessary to go up 2 sizes but the combination of my foot shape and the standard Shimano width/sizing just doesn't work.

When you went back to flat pedals and had no problems, were you still wearing the Giro shoes? If so, then it doesn't sound like the shoes themselves are the problem!

Another problem I had one time was some cleat bolts being slightly too long. The ends of them caused lumps which I could feel on the soles of my feet through the insoles. The discomfort was okay for short rides but became pretty bad after a few hours of riding. Replacing the bolts with shorter ones fixed that problem.


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## le_al_khemista (1 Oct 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Yes, it did. I ended up with bigger than usual gaps in front of my toes, but the rest of each shoe is a snug fit so my feet don't slide forward. Obviously, if the shoes were loose and my feet _did _move, that would cause problems. As it is, it is a bit like wearing well-fitting sandals - my feet stay where they should do but my toes have plenty of room. I have ridden thousands of kms in the shoes and they feel great.
> 
> It shouldn't be necessary to go up 2 sizes but the combination of my foot shape and the standard Shimano width/sizing just doesn't work.
> 
> When you went back to flat pedals and had no problems, were you still wearing the Giro shoes? If so, then it doesn't sound like the shoes themselves are the problem!



Interesting.

I've gone back to flat pedals + regular trainers not flat pedals with the Giro shoes. I've also tried the SPDs with regular trainers and there was no pain so I think the shoes are definitely the problem.



ColinJ said:


> Another problem I had one time was some cleat bolts being slightly too long. The ends of them caused lumps which I could feel on the soles of my feet through the insoles. The discomfort was okay for short rides but became pretty bad after a few hours of riding. Replacing the bolts with shorter ones fixed that problem.



I thought that was what was happening at first! I was sure I was feeling the bolts through the insoles but after further inspection and online reading I realised the sensation was probably my nerve being pinched or similar rather than the bolts.

Might be time to give different shoes a go, not ideal as cycling shoes aren't exactly cheap and these seemed comfortable when I tried them in the shop.


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## ColinJ (1 Oct 2020)

le_al_khemista said:


> Might be time to give different shoes a go, not ideal as cycling shoes aren't exactly cheap and these seemed comfortable when I tried them in the shop.


I find that my feet often start to swell up during rides. I have velcro straps on my Shimano shoes. I start off with the straps comfortably snug but often have to loosen them slightly after 30 minutes or so.


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## le_al_khemista (2 Oct 2020)

ColinJ said:


> I find that my feet often start to swell up during rides. I have velcro straps on my Shimano shoes. I start off with the straps comfortably snug but often have to loosen them slightly after 30 minutes or so.



Yeah, the pain on my foot also starts after about 30 minutes so I think there's a relation there.

Ideally I'd need to try diffetent shoes on the bike for at least 30 minutes but I don't think many shops will let me return the shoes after they've been used...


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## GrandadRob (28 Dec 2020)

I have suffered with this ? for some time. But the odd thing is that it does not bother me whilst on the bike. But when I take my shoes off, I can feel like I have a coin shaped area under the skin on both feet, just behind the central toes, which is sometimes numb. Not a problem to walk except If have thin shoes on and then step on a stone. Its just like I stood on a nail. Lasts a few seconds then goes away. Spoke to my neighbour/physio, she says it is probably NM. I wear cycling shoes and toe clips, can't get on with cleats. Does this sound odd ?


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## screenman (28 Dec 2020)

Have a look at Bikefittuesday on youtube, the guy talks a lot of sense.


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## kingrollo (30 Dec 2020)

ColinJ said:


> Yes, it did. I ended up with bigger than usual gaps in front of my toes, but the rest of each shoe is a snug fit so my feet don't slide forward. Obviously, if the shoes were loose and my feet _did _move, that would cause problems. As it is, it is a bit like wearing well-fitting sandals - my feet stay where they should do but my toes have plenty of room. I have ridden thousands of kms in the shoes and they feel great.
> 
> It shouldn't be necessary to go up 2 sizes but the combination of my foot shape and the standard Shimano width/sizing just doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Going up a couple shoe sizes and the pads I mentioned earlier worked for me.

I also don't think the number on the shoe (size) matters that much. Shoe sizing is all over the place - it would be a bit like always buying a medium size bike - no matter which brand you go for.


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## normgow (11 Jan 2021)

For many years I suffered with foot pain (left foot) whilst cycling but also walking, often it was worse in hot weather and was diagnosed as Morton Neurom. Shoe inserts helped for a while but gradually became less effective. Cutting out slots on the side of my cycling shoes (s-works) to give the toes, or more exactly the metatarsul bones, more room or less compression, also helped but was frowned on by the fashion police. Last year I decided enough was enough and despite hearing some unfavourable reports of possible after effects went ahead with the necessary operation which was really no big deal. The surgeon removed about 22mm of nerve between 3rd and 4th toes and later showed me a photo of it showing the bulges which when compressed caused the painful discomfort. For about 6 weeks I had to wear a special boot which prevented bending of the sole and made me feel like Lord Byron but without being able to write poetry. Just over a year has passed and I'm glad to say everything has been fine and have managed 8000km this year which is modest by comparison with some but makes me grateful that I can do it without the old discomfort. Whether this is the solution for everyone I couldn't say, certainly wide-fitting shoes, really foot-shaped shoes, are a big help but a good doctor who is sympathetic to a cyclist's needs is the best bet. I have been very fortunate and hope fellow sufferers can get some relief in the future.


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## le_al_khemista (4 Sep 2021)

Hi all, reviving this thread as I'm still suffering from the above (suspected Morton's neuroma) and now feel discomfort even with flat pedal and regular trainers.
Can anyone recommend a podiatrist (or other professional) knowledgeable about cycling injuries and shoe fit specifically?
Getting a bit desperate as the GP didn't really resolve the issue (was told to rest the foot for a few weeks) and I'm not too sure who else to turn to. Ideally would like to find someone who's able to tell me exactly what's going on and recommend and adequate pair of cycling shoes.

Many thanks


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## fossyant (4 Sep 2021)

Double check where the ball of your foot is sitting in relation to the axel. Too far forward, or back can cause foot pain. I managed to mess it up on a new pair of shoes and was about 5mm out (too far forward). Caused hot feet until I finally discovered my error.


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## byegad (4 Sep 2021)

I had exactly that issue with SPDs on three different bikes using two different shoes.

I changed to Crank Brothers Mallets which have a large platform and eggbeaters in the centre. Solved it overnight.

I then tried Candy pedals from the same firm much smaller and same principle of eggbeater within a platform, and they're great too. 

In my opinion the SPDs take all the pressure on the cleat, any platform is their for show.


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## vickster (4 Sep 2021)

le_al_khemista said:


> Hi all, reviving this thread as I'm still suffering from the above (suspected Morton's neuroma) and now feel discomfort even with flat pedal and regular trainers.
> Can anyone recommend a podiatrist (or other professional) knowledgeable about cycling injuries and shoe fit specifically?
> Getting a bit desperate as the GP didn't really resolve the issue (was told to rest the foot for a few weeks) and I'm not too sure who else to turn to. Ideally would like to find someone who's able to tell me exactly what's going on and recommend and adequate pair of cycling shoes.
> 
> Many thanks


Sigma offer shoe and cleat fitting as well as a wider range of bike fitting services
https://www.sigmasports.com/bike-fitting/services/hampton-wick

cyclefit another alternative https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/cyclefit

Someone posted recently about a positive experience with bike fit in Orpington, can’t recall the details

Otherwise find a physio who does bike fitting, there used to be a couple of good ones in SW London but they’ve moved on unfortunately. There are probably others, you could try Googling 

Gaitlab offer full podiatry services and are very good, don’t know if they do anything cycling related specifically
https://www.thegaitlab.co.uk/


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## ColinJ (4 Sep 2021)

byegad said:


> In my opinion the SPDs take all the pressure on the cleat, any platform is their for show.


I thought that too until I noticed that the platforms on all of my 8 SPD pedals are polished and worn by the action of the soles of my shoes. 

I suppose it depends on how recessed the cleat is in the shoes. 

I find that comfort depends more on the stiffness of the sole of the shoe. I can feel the cleat/pedal on a flexible shoe but not on a stiff one.


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## le_al_khemista (4 Sep 2021)

fossyant said:


> Double check where the ball of your foot is sitting in relation to the axel. Too far forward, or back can cause foot pain. I managed to mess it up on a new pair of shoes and was about 5mm out (too far forward). Caused hot feet until I finally discovered my error.



I've tried playing around with cleat position quite a bit but it never offered any major relief.


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## le_al_khemista (4 Sep 2021)

byegad said:


> I had exactly that issue with SPDs on three different bikes using two different shoes.
> 
> I changed to Crank Brothers Mallets which have a large platform and eggbeaters in the centre. Solved it overnight.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the recommendations but I don't really want to go down the route of buying different pedals and shoes to then find out it made little difference in terms of confort/pain. I feel like it's bit of a gamble investing in a new setup without knowing exactly what the source of the problem is.


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## le_al_khemista (4 Sep 2021)

vickster said:


> Sigma offer shoe and cleat fitting as well as a wider range of bike fitting services
> https://www.sigmasports.com/bike-fitting/services/hampton-wick
> 
> cyclefit another alternative https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/cyclefit
> ...



Thanks vickster! Will look into all the above.

I have called Cyclefit about this issue before and they've told me they only offer foot consultations if I'm buying one of their products (i.e. very expensive custom footbeds)


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## vickster (4 Sep 2021)

Bicycle richmond do shoe fits
https://www.bicyclerichmond.co.uk/shoe-fitting

Or there’s a physio practice at velodrome
https://www.eastlondonphysio.com/


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## vickster (5 Sep 2021)

I went past this place today, podiatrists offering sport injury assessments, might be worth a call to see if they do anything cycling wise or can recommend anyone who does
http://www.feetonthehill.co.uk/feetonthehill/opencms/topmenu/Whodowetreat.html


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## le_al_khemista (6 Sep 2021)

vickster said:


> I went past this place today, podiatrists offering sport injury assessments, might be worth a call to see if they do anything cycling wise or can recommend anyone who does
> http://www.feetonthehill.co.uk/feetonthehill/opencms/topmenu/Whodowetreat.html



Thanks, will do. Can't see where they're based on the website. Google suggests it might be Hampton.


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## vickster (6 Sep 2021)

le_al_khemista said:


> Thanks, will do. Can't see where they're based on the website. Google suggests it might be Hampton.


Yep Hampton Hill... High Street...from their website
http://www.feetonthehill.co.uk/feetonthehill/opencms/topmenu/findus.html


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