# FS or Hardtail



## Ootini (20 Jan 2015)

Hi all,

I live in North Wales and have been riding a CX bike for around a year or so. For the past 6 months it's been a dedicated road / path only bike. The main reason for this being, a few mates have road bikes and keeping up with them on knobbly CX tyres was a nightmare and the paths and trails round here, were just a bit too much for a CX bike.
I'm looking at picking up a mountain bike so I can get back in to the dirtier stuff but I'm not sure if a hardtail would suffice, or whether I should go whole hog and grab a low end full suspension bike. I'd like to ride Llandegla, Marin, Coed Y Brenin etc. For these trails, would a full suspension bike be required? or would a hard tail manage?

FYI for a hardtail I was drawn to the Halfords Voodoo Bazinga 29er. For a full suspension bike, cost would be a more limiting factor. I've seen a KTM FS bike at my LBS for £1k.

Thanks


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## Kestevan (20 Jan 2015)

You can ride pretty much any of those trails on a HT. 

IMHO unless you are looking to send some serious money (1K is absolute bottom end, better off adding another £500 - £1000) then you will always be better off buying a decent HT than a full susser.


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## Ootini (20 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the heads up. I thought that may be the case re: bottom end FS or mid range HT.
I just have no idea about the more technical requirements of those trails.


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## Pale Rider (20 Jan 2015)

Ootini said:


> I've seen a KTM FS bike at my LBS for £1k.
> 
> Thanks



As your bike shop does KTM, have a look at the 1964 Special Edition hardtail.

Lovely bike, and very light which you will appreciate coming from CX.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/p/2015-ktm-ultra-1964-special-edition?pp=12


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## derrick (20 Jan 2015)

Go for the HT, unless you can afford a good FS, i Spent £1100 on a FS a few years back, and at that money the rear shock is rubbish,I will eventually get a HT frame and swop it all over. A HT can do it all and they are lighter.


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## Oldbloke (20 Jan 2015)

Pale Rider said:


> As your bike shop does KTM, have a look at the 1964 Special Edition hardtail.
> 
> Lovely bike, and very light which you will appreciate coming from CX.
> 
> http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/p/2015-ktm-ultra-1964-special-edition?pp=12



I'll vouch for that as I bought one in December, excellent bike.

Try Googling the model name, seen it much cheaper than £999.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2015)

Im in the same boat, budget is negotiable but I can't find a particularly well specced FS below £1400 (Been looking at Giant Anthem/Trance + Canyon Nerve AL 6/7)

Id still be tempted by a well sorted HT, probably Carbon framed.


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## Pale Rider (20 Jan 2015)

Oldbloke said:


> I'll vouch for that as I bought one in December, excellent bike.
> 
> Try Googling the model name, seen it much cheaper than £999.



After your recommendation in the tetchy thread, I had a brief go on one of these yesterday.

A bit over my budget, and my mountain bike plans are not fully formed, but I was very impressed with the bike.

Saved me looking any further, can't see the point - I either want one of those or will leave it for the time being.


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## ColinJ (20 Jan 2015)

I would prefer a nice hardtail to a cheap FS. In fact, I don't really like riding fast over gnarly stuff, and am more interested in climbing so the lighter weight of the hardtail would always be my first choice.


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## Hacienda71 (20 Jan 2015)

I have a fs Specialized and have ridden the Marin on a hardtail a couple of times and it was fine.


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## Ootini (20 Jan 2015)

Just been on the blower to the LBS and they have a Ghost Kato 3 Hardtail that they're recommending as a first HT.

Anyone got any views on this: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ghost-kato-3-hardtail-bike-2015/rp-prod126378
VS
this: http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/mountain-bikes/voodoo-bizango-29er-mountain-bike-20


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## Kestevan (20 Jan 2015)

TBH at that price I'd be wanting better than Alivio gearing and Suntour suspention.... 

Have a look at Decathlons offering for the same price (26" wheeler though). 
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockride...l#anchor_ComponentProductTechnicalInformation

If you can run to another £100 then the planet X parkwood is going to be hard to beat for the money....
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPWX5/on-one-parkwood-sram-x5-mountain-bike

Alternatively if you're a short-arse or freakishly tall look at the offerings on Pauls cycles for something from a major manufacturer at a knock-down price ( although you may struggle if you want a "normal size" as they tend to go quickly).


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2015)

Also been eyeing this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sentier-vrs-hardtail-bike-2015/rp-prod120722 if not this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-rapide-275-hardtail-bike-2014/rp-prod107045

I'm biased though as I've owned more Vitus' than I have fingers to count them on


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## Jody (20 Jan 2015)

Less than 12 months old (maybe slightly biased) 







http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2013-GIAN...1201532075?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item566d55e0ab


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2015)

That's gorgeous but too small for me  I'm a big lad


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## Jody (20 Jan 2015)

What size frame are you after? My friend has a medium and is about 5.10 but if your taller then it will be a bigger frame


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (20 Jan 2015)

Large but not really ready to splash the £


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## Cubist (20 Jan 2015)

If you have a grand to spend, I would look at the On One Parkwood X9. The trails you describe are great trails , and a short travel XC style bike may leave a bit to be desired. The Parkwood is less of a racy setup, and will enjoy the Welsh descents better than a steeper bike. In terms of VFM it's hard to beat On One's spec sheet. That said, a grand will buy an awful lot of secondhand bike. ....


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## Ootini (21 Jan 2015)

I'd be much happier, and less divorced if I could spend a max of £600 tbh, the £1k on a full suspension bike was probably going to be through the C2W scheme at work. Granted it's not exactly a commuter but it can be done.


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## evo456 (21 Jan 2015)

Had the same dilemna not too long ago... £600 MTB HT, in the end I settled for the Trek X-Caliber 8. Has everything I need, haven't really bedded it in yet, but the steering is very responsive and the spec is more than enough for my needs.


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## Ootini (22 Jan 2015)

Hi folks, I appreciate all the advice and input so far.

I've spoken to a colleague who is in to this MTBs and discussed my first hard tail. I would really like to buy from an LBS as it would give me the chance to ride the bikes, as opposed to buying blind. After some consideration and chatting he recommended taking a look at the KTM Ultra Fire @£680, little bit more than I was hoping to spend but the spec is much higher than the Ghost bikes I was originally looking at. Not quite up to the 1964 spec ed. I'm really struggling to find any reviews on the bike before I go for a test ride on Saturday. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the KTM Ultra Fire? Thanks


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## Oldbloke (22 Jan 2015)

Ootini said:


> Hi folks, I appreciate all the advice and input so far.
> 
> I've spoken to a colleague who ishttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KTM-Ultra-Fire-27-5-650b-Hardtail-2014-Mountain-Bike-20-off-RRP-/331343763626?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&var=&hash=item4d25a098aain to this MTBs and discussed my first hard tail. I would really like to buy from an LBS as it would give me the chance to ride the bikes, as opposed to buying blind. After some consideration and chatting he recommended taking a look at the KTM Ultra Fire @£680, little bit more than I was hoping to spend but the spec is much higher than the Ghost bikes I was originally looking at. Not quite up to the 1964 spec ed. I'm really struggling to find any reviews on the bike before I go for a test ride on Saturday. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the KTM Ultra Fire? Thanks



Don't know your size but there's a 2014 model on eBay for £560 ish. If you like the test bike perhaps ask the lbs to try and price match?


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## Cubist (22 Jan 2015)

Check On One's website. They do cyclescheme, but it depends if that's compatible with work. That KTM is pretty standard fare... Budget fork and Octalink chainset. For the same money you'd do better buying from the likes of On One, Rose or HiBike. At the end of the day, MTBs can be modified from the off in terms of stems, bars and so on, and a test ride won't tell you much unless you can get them out in their proper environment. I hate to say it, but around that price range everything is pretty much the same... a generic trekking or XC style frame with a different assortment of dangly bits. They'll nearlyall have internal BBs unless you can find a bargain with Hollowtech or SRAM GXP. The only difference tends to be the occasional special with an air fork, or a decent Rockshox coiler. Dont dismiss Bikehut/ Halfords some of their middle porcine stuff is really nice. Check Chain Reaction s own brand, is it Vitus? Or really left field Go Outdoors have some cracking value mid price stuff, the Calibre two two won various sub £500 category awards, and the 50 looks as nice.


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## Cubist (22 Jan 2015)

Cubist said:


> Check On One's website. They do cyclescheme, but it depends if that's compatible with work. That KTM is pretty standard fare... Budget fork and Octalink chainset. For the same money you'd do better buying from the likes of On One, Rose or HiBike. At the end of the day, MTBs can be modified from the off in terms of stems, bars and so on, and a test ride won't tell you much unless you can get them out in their proper environment. I hate to say it, but around that price range everything is pretty much the same... a generic trekking or XC style frame with a different assortment of dangly bits. They'll nearlyall have internal BBs unless you can find a bargain with Hollowtech or SRAM GXP. The only difference tends to be the occasional special with an air fork, or a decent Rockshox coiler. Dont dismiss Bikehut/ Halfords some of their middle porcine stuff is really nice. Check Chain Reaction s own brand, is it Vitus? Or really left field Go Outdoors have some cracking value mid price stuff, the Calibre two two won various sub £500 category awards, and the 50 looks as nice.


Middle porcine! ? Gotta love autocorrect.....


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## shadow master (22 Jan 2015)

Kestevan said:


> You can ride pretty much any of those trails on a HT.
> 
> IMHO unless you are looking to send some serious money (1K is absolute bottom end, better off adding another £500 - £1000) then you will always be better off buying a decent HT than a full susser.


Couldn't agree more under £1000 hardtail.full sus £1250+ or drop real clanger and buy a budget full sus 29er!


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## Levo-Lon (22 Jan 2015)

you live in mtb heaven ..pop to coedy brennin or llandegla and hire a FS and a HT and try them..nothing worse than buying the wrong bike..
some shops will hire or let you test ride a bike if they have one for a test bike?


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## Cubist (23 Jan 2015)

meta lon said:


> you live in mtb heaven ..pop to coedy brennin or llandegla and hire a FS and a HT and try them..nothing worse than buying the wrong bike..
> some shops will hire or let you test ride a bike if they have one for a test bike?


Except..... One Planet bikes at Llandegla sell Orange, Nukeproof, Santa Cruz, Yeti and Ibis. All boutique or niche brands. The cheapest Orange Hardtail is the Clockwork, with a retail price of £1000. Their hire bikes are Orange Crush I think, starting at £1200 or so to buy. A more realistic budget for a trail ready full suss in their shop starts at over two grand. 

Beics Brennin are a bit more budget, with Trek 4500 and 4700 as hire bikes. They stock Treks to sell, and also Santa Cruz. The hire bikes put you back where you started, in the "entry level" mountain bike "mid range" frenzy of generic frames and poorly damped Suntour forks with low end Shimano running gear, and hiring one will tell you not a great deal about what you want to buy. Coming from a cross bike to a budget bike like those will only disappoint, I suspect. 

If you ride with other mountain bikers, ask them what they ride and why.


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## Ootini (23 Jan 2015)

Cubist said:


> If you ride with other mountain bikers, ask them what they ride and why.



I've done this. Most of them ride "posh" bikes such as Nuke Proof, high end FS cubes. Those that don't have recommended Trek, Scott, KTM and Ghost.
I think I may be over thinking this. Coming from a CX bike, that saw little CX action and is now basically a tough road / touring style bike, I'll just be happy to get back on rougher terrain. As as been mentioned at this price range everything is much of a muchness, and it's my first MTB. I'll just try a few out, without worrying about spec and just pick which ever feels / looks the best! Remember, image is everything!

"If" I get in to MTBing' then there's nothing to stop me upgrading in the future, but for now I think I'll just grab a bike and have a go.

The short list for this weekend is the KTM Ultra Fire (despite costing a little more), Voodoo Bizango (despite being heavy & the ridiculous name) and the Ghost Kato 4 (despite looking hideous).


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## Cubist (23 Jan 2015)

Being an avid fettler I tend to look around and see what the going price is for decent bikes. Nothing in that price range even starts to compare with what you could put together yourself if you have half an ounce of spannering ability. Basically, MTB parts are interchangeable and one rider's upgrade is another rider's bargain. A bit of net based research around the classifieds and online bargains this morning and I have come up with a nichetastic custom build based on a secondhand Sanderson Blitz long travel Hardtail frame I found for £110 including headset. With used Reba 120 fork for example for about £140, and a secondhand wheelset for £100 ( I've found Shimano SLX, Fulcrum Red Power, Hope Pro 2 and various others for the same sort of money) you could then bolt on a used XT or SLX crank (£40-£50) adding a Superstar single front ring (£26), add a new Zee mech or a mint used XT for £30-£35, an XT cassette for £32, Deore brakes for £65 if you shop round, brand new On One seatpost (£20), stem (£15) and bars (£20), grips (£8) a charge spoon saddle (£20).... A complete custom build with new drivetrain for £700 or thereabouts. That sort of build would give you a stonking trail centre beast that would weigh several kilos less than anything you have been looking at. It will outperform anyhting you've seen so far, AND give you the pleasure of building it yourself. 

What's more, by starting off with used stuff you won't lose as much when you decide you need to change.


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## Ootini (23 Jan 2015)

Cubist said:


> if you have half an ounce of spannering ability.



This is the main stumbling block here. Also I wouldn't be able to do this on the C2W scheme. 

FWIW I do actually intend to use this bike, along side my CX/road bike for commuting.


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## J1780 (23 Jan 2015)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Also been eyeing this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sentier-vrs-hardtail-bike-2015/rp-prod120722 if not this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-rapide-275-hardtail-bike-2014/rp-prod107045
> 
> I'm biased though as I've owned more Vitus' than I have fingers to count them on



So I take it you like Vitus. I am considering one next time around. I've never seen one here so am wondering about finish, build quality etc etc??

As for the OP question I'd go for a HT over FS unless youre going to spend big money and are certain you'll make use of a FS bike. IMHO HT are more versatile and can handle what most riders will throw at them they are also lighter and climb better on the flat you'll be faster.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (23 Jan 2015)

J1780 said:


> So I take it you like Vitus. I am considering one next time around. I've never seen one here so am wondering about finish, build quality etc etc??
> 
> As for the OP question I'd go for a HT over FS unless youre going to spend big money and are certain you'll make use of a FS bike. IMHO HT are more versatile and can handle what most riders will throw at them they are also lighter and climb better on the flat you'll be faster.


I'd never doubt build quality


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## J1780 (24 Jan 2015)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'd never doubt build quality



Looks like it  I've heard good things but its hard to pay out when youve never seen one in the flesh. Best photos I've seen so far. Cheers. It'll be a wwhile yet but Vitus just went up the list....always looking out!!!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Jan 2015)

Granted the brakes/goodridge cables/wheels and BB were my additions from standard bike, they are still fantastic value. I paid £1200 for this, Full carbon with nearly full Ultegra, standard wheels were Ksyrium Equipe that I still swap to occasionally. And tbh, against the Cervelos, Giants, Cannondales and the odd Pinarello of an average club run, it's obviously the best looking bike and as you can see, I like immaculate bikes.

Oh and this. Changed my MTB every year for the last 3-4. 9x3 Alivio is more suited to trail riders than riders who give bikes a bit of abuse like me. Forks aren't that bad at all but they lacked a pressure guide so they took a little effort in getting pressure right.







My other bike is blue too  @ianrauk


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## Ootini (26 Jan 2015)

Visited Halfords & the LBS on Saturday and tried out a few bikes.

Voodoo Bizango: Looks horrible and felt big and chunky (too much so). Wasn't very impressed but then I was only pottering around Halford's car park. Didn't like the 29" wheels.

Ghost Tacana 2: I actually quite liked this, and it came in below budget at £480. I just wasn't a fan of the 29inch wheels, felt very unwieldy.

Ghost Kato 3: This was the first 27.5er I tried and I was immediately happier with the wheels, however the bike felt clunky, not sure why to be honest, it just didn't feel "as nice" and the colour was hideous.

KTM Ultra Fire 27.5 17" frame: Really liked the look of this bike, grey with black and red. Felt nice, build quality felt better than the Ghost's however, I think due to frame size the bike felt cramped.

KTM Ultra Fire 27.5 19" frame: This was my favourite, had the build quality and I liked the wheel size, according to the KTM size guide, being 5'9" I should be on the 17" frame, but I think that's for the 29er version. On the 27.5 wheels the 19" frame felt better. Also, the bike was discounted by £60, so this is the one I'm going for.


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## Oldbloke (26 Jan 2015)

Ootini said:


> Visited Halfords & the LBS on Saturday and tried out a few bikes.
> 
> Voodoo Bizango: Looks horrible and felt big and chunky (too much so). Wasn't very impressed but then I was only pottering around Halford's car park. Didn't like the 29" wheels.
> 
> ...



Good choice @Ootini, that's now 2 of us KTM owners on here, at least. Enjoy!


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## Cubist (27 Jan 2015)

Nice choice. The 19" frame will give you a slightly more stretched out feel, and if you're used to riding a cross bike that makes sense. Enjoy it!


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## Ootini (27 Jan 2015)

Now I've just got to find some decent off road routes and trails. I like the idea of Llandegla, CYB, Marin etc but they're more weekend trips. Are there any sites or resources that would show me off road routes and paths in my local area ? (which is N Wales btw).


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## Cubist (27 Jan 2015)

Llandegla is a day trip for me.... from Huddersfield!
Visit MB Wales ; http://www.mbwales.com/ or treat yourself to a guide book. You are in prime MTB country there, so an OS Map or subscription would be a start point. Exploring is the key..... check out bridleways on the map, zoom in on Google Earth satellite view, and go and play. 

Vertebrate publishing do some great guide books: http://www.v-publishing.co.uk/books/categories/mountain-biking/wales-mountain-biking.html

MBR do some good guides: http://www.mbr.co.uk/routes

Otherwise, log onto mapping sites like Bikely, Bike Hike, Mapmyride, Garmin Connect, Strava and search for segments or routes near where you fancy


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## Ootini (27 Jan 2015)

Brilliant, thank you very much!


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## Ootini (27 Jan 2015)

This is a great site, very local to me too: 
http://www.mbnw.co.uk/
http://northwalesmtb.proboards.com/


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## Silver Fox (31 Jan 2015)

Ootini said:


> Now I've just got to find some decent off road routes and trails. I like the idea of Llandegla, CYB, Marin etc but they're more weekend trips. Are there any sites or resources that would show me off road routes and paths in my local area ? (which is N Wales btw).



How far are you from Delamere Forest. There's some nice variety of riding to be had there.


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## Ootini (2 Feb 2015)

Silver Fox said:


> How far are you from Delamere Forest. There's some nice variety of riding to be had there.


It's a 45 minute drive. Cheers for the pointer, I'll give it a look at some stage.


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## Silver Fox (2 Feb 2015)

Ootini said:


> It's a 45 minute drive. Cheers for the pointer, I'll give it a look at some stage.



There's group night rides on a Thursday aswell, 6.30 ride off from the cafe.


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## shadow master (2 Feb 2015)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Granted the brakes/goodridge cables/wheels and BB were my additions from standard bike, they are still fantastic value. I paid £1200 for this, Full carbon with nearly full Ultegra, standard wheels were Ksyrium Equipe that I still swap to occasionally. And tbh, against the Cervelos, Giants, Cannondales and the odd Pinarello of an average club run, it's obviously the best looking bike and as you can see, I like immaculate bikes.
> 
> Oh and this. Changed my MTB every year for the last 3-4. 9x3 Alivio is more suited to trail riders than riders who give bikes a bit of abuse like me. Forks aren't that bad at all but they lacked a pressure guide so they took a little effort in getting pressure right.
> 
> ...


That MTB must ride well extended like that!!!not,obviously didn't have your size on offer!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Feb 2015)

shadow master said:


> That MTB must ride well extended like that!!!not,obviously didn't have your size on offer!


Not at all. Raised the post so it cleared the bars of another bike on the towbar rack.


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## shadow master (2 Feb 2015)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Not at all. Raised the post so it cleared the bars of another bike on the towbar rack.


I didn't think somebody could be riding it like that lol


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Feb 2015)

shadow master said:


> I didn't think somebody could be riding it like that lol


It would surprise most people how much saddle-bar drop I actually have


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## Motozulu (2 Feb 2015)

I'm getting the carbon 456 evo on my works C2W scheme. for a grand I honestly don't think you'll get a better HT. easily good enough with 140mm of travel to do any trail centre, comfortably.


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## razer17 (3 Feb 2015)

Motozulu said:


> I'm getting the carbon 456 evo on my works C2W scheme. for a grand I honestly don't think you'll get a better HT. easily good enough with 140mm of travel to do any trail centre, comfortably.


Quite fancied that carbon myself. On finance though, since my current cycle to work bike still runs till July. 

Heard a few people say it rides pretty harsh, and since I cant try it out in person I decided against it. Shame, because it looks great and seems to have a great spec at the price.


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## Cubist (4 Feb 2015)

User28511 said:


> Quite fancied that carbon myself. On finance though, since my current cycle to work bike still runs till July.
> 
> Heard a few people say it rides pretty harsh, and since I cant try it out in person I decided against it. Shame, because it looks great and seems to have a great spec at the price.


Anyone that says a 140mm carbon hardtail rides harsh has got their tyres pumped up too high (or is talking bolleaux)


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## Motozulu (4 Feb 2015)

Riding buddy has one and I've had a goo on the Dog at Cannock on it, feather light and super fast. I think this 'carbon is harsh' is utter tosh, or at least it is at my level of riding, felt no difference at all to my alu HT. Rode great and with the 140mm forks and slack head tube angle it'll tackle anything I can throw at it, I reckon.


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## razer17 (4 Feb 2015)

Cubist said:


> Anyone that says a 140mm carbon hardtail rides harsh has got their tyres pumped up too high (or is talking bolleaux)


 Blame the guys over at BikeRadar. Although, I just looked the bike over again, and realised I somehow missed it was a 26". Thinking a Lurcher or Parkwood, though. On-One seem to have ridiculous value, even compared to other direct sales brands.


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## Ootini (6 Feb 2015)

First ride on the KTM today. It performed well.... I didn't.

I'd forgotten how hard off road riding was!


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## Ootini (6 Feb 2015)




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## hennbell (6 Feb 2015)

Looks good. I agree with lots of people here only get a FS if you have lots of money and the trails require it. A good HT will take you very far.


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## razer17 (6 Feb 2015)

That's a nice bit of kit that. Always a fan of black and red colour schemes.


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