# So long car ownership, I'd like to say it has been a delight, but...



## Andrew_Culture (21 Oct 2020)

That's it, I'm DONE. I've had a clean driving licence since passing my test in 1993 and have never been involved in a claim that was my fault. I have a surfeit of no-claims bonus discount.

But following a lively few months involving the unrequested liberation of my catalytic converter, someone keying my car and then someone else reversing into my car, my insurance company and I have been in frequently terse conversation.

As a result of the above my annual premium went up from about £250 a year to nearly £800. So I'm DONE. I don't want to play any more. I have transferred ownership of my car to my wife, who despite having naff all no-claims bonus can insure the car for half the cost of my policy. She now uses it for her gardening business (instead of a van!).

On the plus side I'm cycling a lot more! I can't imagine I'll want to go back to owning a car, but my opinion my change when we're doing the school run in sub-zero temperatures and horizontal sleet!


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## ianrauk (21 Oct 2020)

Nice one Andrew. Yep, the cold, wet, dark months are upon us. But keep riding through them, you soon get used to it.


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## oldwheels (21 Oct 2020)

So long as your wife is the main driver you should be ok but if you drive more than a minimal amount the insurance company may be a bit sniffy in the event of a claim. It is a common dodge to get lower premiums which they are well aware of.


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## avecReynolds531 (21 Oct 2020)

ianrauk said:


> Nice one Andrew. Yep, the cold, wet, dark months are upon us. But keep riding through them, you soon get used to it.


+ 1

23 years car free - never missed it, glad to get rid of it. Many significant benefits to life quality & health mean getting through the winters will become easier in time. Overshoes & a decent waterproof jacket will help a lot.


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## fossyant (21 Oct 2020)

Mine hasn't had fuel since in the last month since we had to 'leave' the caravan (bloody Welsh Covid rules). I doubt it will get fuel before Christmas and it's on less that a quarter of a tank.


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## albal (21 Oct 2020)

I drive for a living. Hgv +. So was glad to ditch my car back in February 2018. My elderly father is trying his best to pass his car on to me. As he is getting too old now. I just laugh it off. Not interested. He's bemused. Not missing a car at all.


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## I like Skol (21 Oct 2020)

Not sure what you are complaining about TBH?
After a long time without incident you have had 3 claims in a short period. Kind of like punctures or buses which always seem to all arrive at once. This has obviously affected your claim history and NCD, that's how it works, but you have decided you are special and shouldn't be subject to the same conditions that apply to everyone else?
It does rather seem that after the first upset of things not going your way you have thrown all your toys out of the pram and decided not to play any more.
Good luck managing without a car, I hope it works out for you, more people should consider it. I also hope you don't resume car use fraudulently under the pretence of being an 'occasional' driver of your old car but now registered and insured more cheaply in your wife's name.


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2020)

avecReynolds531 said:


> + 1
> 
> 23 years car free - never missed it, glad to get rid of it. Many significant benefits to life quality & health mean getting through the winters will become easier in time. Overshoes & a decent waterproof jacket will help a lot.


Pretty much the same period here after an unmentionable incident. I don't miss it at all. In London if there are no young kids to ferry around I think cars pretty pointless anyway.
The age of the car is swiftly passing. Future generations will think it barmy that towns and cities were re-designed and bulldozed for them.


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## MichaelW2 (21 Oct 2020)

The car club allows me to be car free but not carless.


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## Archie_tect (21 Oct 2020)

Having paid for 4 vehicles as part of my practice for 25 years I got stung for every claim, fair or not, and the resulting increase in premiums... that's life. it's lovely when you get rid of the cars and the hassle of running a business and only have to be responsible for your own, and that one's days are numbered. But to sidle out of paying a reasonable increased premium following three claims by using a bit of chicanery isn't giving up car ownership Andrew! You could've just kept the van...


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## Notafettler (21 Oct 2020)

30 years plus without a car. Would have to take driving lessons if I wanted to drive again. God knows what they would charge for insurance. 
Mind that doesn't quite make me carless as I can always scroung a lift if desperate.


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## Moodyman (21 Oct 2020)

I can sympathize with the OP. He's being penalised for events that are not his doing. The insured see increased premiums for no-fault claims and the insurance industry doesn't give convincing explanations for this.

To suggest he's disgruntled at the same rules as everyone else is missing the point. Car ownership is a pain: the direct costs, indirect costs and the ever increasing restrictions on where you can drive and park. If one can find a way to manage without one, chapeau.


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## Brooks (21 Oct 2020)

6 years car free and I can honestly say I get by fine without one. Someone in my cycle group needed a new ignition barrel for their car recently and the cost was staggeringly just shy of £600!
I paid those silly prices as well but these past few years it's just slipped my mind mainly due to cycling with it's cheap maintenance costs.
I don't think I'll ever go back to car ownership. If I lived out in the sticks then that would be a different matter of course.


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## I like Skol (21 Oct 2020)

Moodyman said:


> He's being penalised for events that are not his doing.


Not his doing maybe, but insured against nonetheless. He has presumably taken out insurance to cover the damage in the first two events and then made claims? Two cases of using his insurance that could not be covered by the liability insurance of a third party. No surprise or shock that the insurance costs went up. You can't have it both ways!


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## Paulus (21 Oct 2020)

I know insurance companies are risk based, but in the years when you don't claim, and assuming you have the maximum nbc the premiums do not still come down, so the company is effectively making a profit from you.
Then, when you do have a claim, or as the OP has several in quick succession although they pay out, they then start to recoup there losses so they are having it both ways by making money when no claims and recouping the money with higher premiums when they pay out.


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## screenman (21 Oct 2020)

Paulus said:


> I know insurance companies are risk based, but in the years when you don't claim, and assuming you have the maximum nbc the premiums do not still come down, so the company is effectively making a profit from you.
> Then, when you do have a claim, or as the OP has several in quick succession although they pay out, they then start to recoup there losses so they are having it both ways by making money when no claims and recouping the money with higher premiums when they pay out.



I imagine that the cost of one claim can take out many years of premiums, the most expensive I was involved in cost well in excess of £30,000 in total.

Just had my insurance renewal through to day, at just under £8 a week it seems good value.


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## I like Skol (21 Oct 2020)

Paulus said:


> I know insurance companies are risk based, but in the years when you don't claim, and assuming you have the maximum nbc the premiums do not still come down, so the company is effectively making a profit from you.
> Then, when you do have a claim, or as the OP has several in quick succession although they pay out, they then start to recoup there losses so they are having it both ways by making money when no claims and recouping the money with higher premiums when they pay out.


I don't think you really understand probabilities, averages and liabilities. Any claim at any point could easily wipe out a lifetime of premiums paid.


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## Paulus (21 Oct 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I don't think you really understand probabilities, averages and liabilities. Any claim at any point could easily wipe out a lifetime of premiums paid.


I do .


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## Drago (21 Oct 2020)

I keep trying to go car free and people keep giving me free cars that are too good to turn down. Damn their generous souls to Hades!


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## Tail End Charlie (21 Oct 2020)

It can be difficult to go car-less so kudos to the OP for giving it a whirl. My reading of his post is that his wife has ditched her van and is now the main user of the car, so no chicanery.
I went car-less for three years and it was great, but things changed and I had to buy a van , which I still have. I'll ditch it when I can.


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## dave r (21 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> 30 years plus without a car. Would have to take driving lessons if I wanted to drive again. God knows what they would charge for insurance.
> Mind that doesn't quite make me carless as I can always scroung a lift if desperate.



I was car free for over 30 years, though I did drive company vans and small lorries in the 1990's early 2000's, when I brought my first car in 2012 I got clobbered for insurance as I didn't have a checkable insurance history. These days going car less would cause problems, my Good Lady has mobility problems and without the car she would be restricted in how she could get around.


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## Andy in Germany (21 Oct 2020)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I can't imagine I'll want to go back to owning a car, but my opinion my change when we're doing the school run in sub-zero temperatures and horizontal sleet!



It is easier than you think: you'll be warm enough after the first hundred metres or so.

Also, remember the costs of car ownership and it becomes much more enjoyable...


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## ColinJ (21 Oct 2020)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I can't imagine I'll want to go back to owning a car, but my opinion my change when we're doing the school run in sub-zero temperatures and horizontal sleet!


Hmm... 


ColinJ said:


> The one and only time that I berated myself for not driving was on Christmas Eve, standing at a bus stop in Halifax in a blizzard, waiting for a very overdue bus. No taxis were available and I was weighed down with heavy, bulky Christmas presents including a portable TV and a whiteboard! By the time I got home, I was frozen and I'd put my back out!


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## HMS_Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Im not quite car-less but ive used my car a LOT less. It requires a different mindset. It is of course possible, but when you open the fridge and you realise that you have no milk, beers or food you can't simply pop in the car to Tesco at 10pm at night, unless you live very close or fancy gearing up for a night ride. That being said, it is a lot easier for you as you do have someone in the household who can drive. Give it a go i say. The worst that can happen is that you save some money...


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## screenman (22 Oct 2020)

I would need to move house, shut my businesses and change my lifestyle a lot to go car less so it is not for me at the moment. I can see a time when we only have the one car between us like the OP though.


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## avecReynolds531 (22 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> The age of the car is swiftly passing. Future generations will think it barmy that towns and cities were re-designed and bulldozed for them.


+ 1
After decades, the idea of using bikes as everyday transport seems to be gaining credibility once more.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

Went down from two to one car 12yrs ago, how I got right into my cycling. However since then , we are back to two this last 6yrs. It wasn’t easy by any stretch running one less with kids to take to various things but I sacrificed. I think if you live in the city and have excellent bus links etc it should be fairly easy. However if you were forced you would manage ! It is habit forming after all.


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## Mo1959 (22 Oct 2020)

My battery will be going flat it is so long since I used it. Must give it a little run. I think I could probably do without it now to be honest, but there's always that odd time it's needed.


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## Blue Hills (22 Oct 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> My battery will be going flat it is so long since I used it. Must give it a little run. I think I could probably do without it now to be honest, but there's always that odd time it's needed.


If it's used that infrequently I would very seriously consider alternative solutions for these odd times its needed. These "solutions" may seem expensive on a "per incident" basis but not when plotted over a year. Sitting cars are just tin.


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## Pale Rider (22 Oct 2020)

Several posters in this thread, including the OP, seem to think 'car free' means only having one car per household.

Nothing wrong with that arrangement, but please don't kid yourself it is in any sense of the term 'car free'.


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## Brads (22 Oct 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Not sure what you are complaining about TBH?
> After a long time without incident you have had 3 claims in a short period. Kind of like punctures or buses which always seem to all arrive at once. This has obviously affected your claim history and NCD, that's how it works, but you have decided you are special and shouldn't be subject to the same conditions that apply to everyone else?
> It does rather seem that after the first upset of things not going your way you have thrown all your toys out of the pram and decided not to play any more.
> Good luck managing without a car, I hope it works out for you, more people should consider it. I also hope you don't resume car use fraudulently under the pretence of being an 'occasional' driver of your old car but now registered and insured more cheaply in your wife's name.




Wow, bet you're popular at parties. lol.

Insurance companies are scum, end off. They want it all their way, all of the time. Not accepting any argument opposing that view either.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

No way would car free make things easier in anyway for us. So it will never happen !! Just pointing out you can reduce reliance if you wanted too!


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## Deafie (22 Oct 2020)

I was fortunate enough to be able to give up cars in 93. If I got one I could make more money but I love life without the hassle of it. Cycling for transport in harsh weather can be challenging and requires a little planning but, it's really fun and invigorating. You will learn to really appreciate a hot shower and clean dry clothes. Life will be better!


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

Deafie said:


> I was fortunate enough to be able to give up cars in 93. If I got one I could make more money but I love life without the hassle of it. Cycling for transport in harsh weather can be challenging and requires a little planning but, it's really fun and invigorating. You will learn to really appreciate a hot shower and clean dry clothes. Life will be better!


That’s a life choice that not all can afford or willing to compromise. However well done!


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## fossyant (22 Oct 2020)

<<<<< I use my car to carry important things <<<<< 

Might have to use it today as need to drop a present off at my sisters, had contemplated riding, but as the route is off road, and present fragile, I don't hold my chances it will be in one piece. First time the car has moved in at least a week.


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## PK99 (22 Oct 2020)

Brads said:


> Wow, bet you're popular at parties. lol.
> 
> Insurance companies are scum, end off. They want it all their way, all of the time. Not accepting any argument opposing that view either.



People who rely on cheap insurance are stupid, end of.

I buy my household insurance from Hiscox. Headline cost is large.
But includes any number of bikes to individual value £3,500, and higher value at no cost if specified. I just had a room redecorated following a roof leak they put £1400 in my bank before I had the work done. In the past, I've had a new kitchen ceiling following a central heating leak, and major repairs to hall ceiling following a shower leak. A bike replaced before compo received following SMIDSY, they then chased drivers car insurance for their costs.
Emergency plumber call out (plumber on-site within 2 hours of my call. it would have been quicker had I not been able to turn off the water in that part of system) to trace and fix unknown leak -at the same time, they authorised what was essentially a maintenance repair on an item the plumber spotted that might have caused a future problem.

No increase in premium following any of those claims.

I've had very good value from my insurance.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

With your track record nobody else would touch you


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## shep (22 Oct 2020)

I'd invest in a better Plumber!


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## PK99 (22 Oct 2020)

shep said:


> I'd invest in a better Plumber!



yep!

The one who was involved in our Loft conversion 20 years ago was clearly not very good - we should have gone for the higher quote!

TBF though the Central heating leak was down to the Alarm company who screwed back a floorboard and went into a pipe - years later the end of the screw rusted off and a slow drip started, months/years later damage appeared in ceiling, the fungal growth ceiling space was, eerm, alarming in the extreme - Hiccox paid for Plumbing repair, Rentokill inspection and treatment plus new ceiling and lighting.

As with anything else, with insurance, you get the quality of service you pay for.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

Brads said:


> Wow, bet you're popular at parties. lol.
> 
> Insurance companies are scum, end off. They want it all their way, all of the time. Not accepting any argument opposing that view either.


Nowt like exaggerating. 
A motorbike ran into the back of me. Contacted his insurance company , they got back 2 days later accepting responsibility. Paid for all repairs by paying into my bank account They offered to pay for me to rent a bike. Also said I could hire a dog walker and they would pay. I asked for neither.
At a latter date they said my injuries were not minor and they would pay full cost of solicitor.
What a bunch of scum ....according to you.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

@PK99
I will note that down for future reference. I was with nfu good but put my Insurance up big time for a minor claim. TSB do the same insurance for bikes dirt cheap without adding house insurance. Upto £3500. No matter how many bikes at home and away from home anywhere in the world. Is it cheaper without the bike insurance? No point in double insurance.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

Electric bike for heavy loads, including 2 and half years of firewood. Fetched on ordinary bike and Electric bike....depending on how lazy I feel.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> People who rely on cheap insurance are stupid, end of.


Some people may not be able to afford the premiums of quality insurance....end of.!


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## PK99 (22 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> @PK99
> I will note that down for future reference. I was with nfu good but put my Insurance up big time for a minor claim. TSB do the same insurance for bikes dirt cheap without adding house insurance. Upto £3500. No matter how many bikes at home and away from home anywhere in the world. Is it cheaper without the bike insurance? No point in double insurance.



Bike cover is part of contents cover. No extra with bikes. No reduction without.

As I say, headline price is high but we have North of £10k of bikes covered for no cost.


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## MrGrumpy (22 Oct 2020)

Without knowing what your premium would a abs size of house/type of house and area it’s hard to quantify value for money. However your requirements are wholly different from the rest of us !?
Must say we had a small house fire , and Direct line had money in my bank within days to cover all loss and other costs. Granted that was my choice rather than wait for tradesman to come in. It was good outcome. Just a pity our renewal was horribly expensive !! So we moved provider lol


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## confusedcyclist (22 Oct 2020)

oldwheels said:


> So long as your wife is the main driver you should be ok but if you drive more than a minimal amount the insurance company may be a bit sniffy in the event of a claim. It is a common dodge to get lower premiums which they are well aware of.


Simple, "No gov', it's my wife's car, I used it today as a one off" 

I've been (personally) car free since 2014, I toyed with the idea of getting one again very very briefly last year, but once you live without the expense, it's hard to go back. My wife still drives, and I take hers out occasionally. I mostly commute by ebike nowadays. I should say, car-lite, not free, but it's the best of both worlds. My wife insists on car ownership after all, so I could never be car free entirely.


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## byegad (22 Oct 2020)

We had two cars from '94, when we married, to early 2018. My last three MOTs recorded 3500/2500/3000miles in each Yr. It was costing around £800/annum, to Tax, insure, service and MOT. 
The last MOT had several faults needing rectification, all had been warnings in the previous MOTs.
So, at a book price of £800, needing the wrong side of £500 spending on it, I sold it as is to the garage for £500. 
For the next two years I drove Lady Byegads car, mostly on a holiday and days out. She drove it 4 or 5 days a week for shopping, meeting friends and following her hobbies. A completely fair assessment was we covered almost exactly the same mileage each Yr. So, at her first renewal I insured it in her name. The next year she insured it. Each time naming the other as a driver. Then a couple of months later, she had a brain abscess necessitating a hole in her head to drain it, and so incurring a perfectly understandable withdrawal of her licence for a minimum of one year by DVLA.

As I'd had a renewal notice less than two months earlier, but she'd insured, with the same firm for a little less, I informed the RAC Insurance people of her circumstances. Remember, I'd been with them up to that September. Their reaction was despicable. Having insisted on cancelling her policy (Fair enough, she could not be the main driver, as her licence had gone back to DVLA.) and promptly offered me insurance on the car, which in September I could have bought at just under £400, it was on their renewal notice, a policy at over £960. I told them what I thought of their attempt to profiteer on my wife's illness (At that time her survival was in doubt.) and promptly got the car covered for just under £350 by Direct Line. 

Insurance companies all want to charge the maximum they can, and pay out the minimum. They're businesses and I do understand that they need to make a profit, but all too often the bastards run the show. 

So just three weeks ago we needed to replace our two year old rather nice small car with a larger one so we could carry the wheelchair, which my wife needs for more than a short walk, without the rear seats being down. I called Direct one who, for a modest sum covered the new car for the remaining 2 months of my cover. No fee to make the change, which I'm sure those robbing bastards at RAC Insurance would charge! No fuss just enough to cover 1/6th the annual difference in a years insurance.


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## matticus (22 Oct 2020)

confusedcyclist said:


> Simple, "No gov', it's my wife's car, I used it today as a one off"
> 
> I've been (personally) car free since 2014, I toyed with the idea of getting one again very very briefly last year, but once you live without the expense, it's hard to go back. My wife still drives, and I take hers out occasionally. I mostly commute by ebike nowadays. I should say, car-lite, not free, but it's the best of both worlds. My wife insists on car ownership after all, so I could never be car free entirely.


You could refuse to have any contact with the infernal contraption. No lifts, and make her park it out of sight. Where are your principles man??


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## Brads (22 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Nowt like exaggerating.
> A motorbike ran into the back of me. Contacted his insurance company , they got back 2 days later accepting responsibility. Paid for all repairs by paying into my bank account They offered to pay for me to rent a bike. Also said I could hire a dog walker and they would pay. I asked for neither.
> At a latter date they said my injuries were not minor and they would pay full cost of solicitor.
> What a bunch of scum ....according to you.




Did they increase your premiums due to "your" accident ?


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## Randomnerd (22 Oct 2020)

I've three cars and a telly in every room. Do I win a prize?


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## All uphill (22 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> Mine hasn't had fuel since in the last month since we had to 'leave' the caravan (bloody Welsh Covid rules). I doubt it will get fuel before Christmas and it's on less that a quarter of a tank.


We were a bit smug about the tank of fuel that lasted us nearly three months earlier this year. Shame the handbrake calipers seized and wrecked the discs on our first journey.


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## pjd57 (22 Oct 2020)

3 years without one.
Haven't missed it one bit


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## PK99 (22 Oct 2020)

Randomnerd said:


> I've three cars and a telly in every room. Do I win a prize?



How do you get the cars into the room?


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## fossyant (22 Oct 2020)

All uphill said:


> We were a bit smug about the tank of fuel that lasted us nearly three months earlier this year. Shame the handbrake calipers seized and wrecked the discs on our first journey.


Oops. Mine was moved to stop any of that.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

Brads said:


> Did they increase your premiums due to "your" accident ?


What premiums? I was cycling home. Your burbling.


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## Andy in Germany (22 Oct 2020)

PK99 said:


> How do you get the cars into the room?



I'm just hoping the prize isn't a sofa.


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Oct 2020)

ianrauk said:


> Nice one Andrew. Yep, the cold, wet, dark months are upon us. But keep riding through them, you soon get used to it.


I've done it before and look forward to it a bit, it's my nine year old daughter who isn't so keen. Mind you, the Castelli kids' mitts I found on Wiggle for £9 have impressed her!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Oct 2020)

oldwheels said:


> So long as your wife is the main driver you should be ok but if you drive more than a minimal amount the insurance company may be a bit sniffy in the event of a claim. It is a common dodge to get lower premiums which they are well aware of.



I would be surprised if I even drive ten miles in a month! There are no gigs to play, no band rehearsals to attend and the shopping gets delivered!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Oct 2020)

I like Skol said:


> Not sure what you are complaining about TBH?
> After a long time without incident you have had 3 claims in a short period. Kind of like punctures or buses which always seem to all arrive at once. This has obviously affected your claim history and NCD, that's how it works, but you have decided you are special and shouldn't be subject to the same conditions that apply to everyone else?
> It does rather seem that after the first upset of things not going your way you have thrown all your toys out of the pram and decided not to play any more.
> Good luck managing without a car, I hope it works out for you, more people should consider it. I also hope you don't resume car use fraudulently under the pretence of being an 'occasional' driver of your old car but now registered and insured more cheaply in your wife's name.



Cor, I thought I was in the news and current affairs section for a minute 

I'm fully aware that I'm a statistical liability. I talked about this at length with a friend who is an actuary. I wouldn't insure me!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Oct 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Having paid for 4 vehicles as part of my practice for 25 years I got stung for every claim, fair or not, and the resulting increase in premiums... that's life. it's lovely when you get rid of the cars and the hassle of running a business and only have to be responsible for your own, and that one's days are numbered. But to sidle out of paying a reasonable increased premium following three claims by using a bit of chicanery isn't giving up car ownership Andrew! You could've just kept the van...



My wife's van died at the start of lockdown and was stranded at the allotment for three months till the scrappy opened again, we were not popular!


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## Andrew_Culture (22 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> Also, remember the costs of car ownership and it becomes much more enjoyable...



That's the real nub of the matter, I get no joy from owning such a financial liability.


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## Notafettler (22 Oct 2020)

byegad said:


> We had two cars from '94, when we married, to early 2018. My last three MOTs recorded 3500/2500/3000miles in each Yr. It was costing around £800/annum, to Tax, insure, service and MOT.
> The last MOT had several faults needing rectification, all had been warnings in the previous MOTs.
> So, at a book price of £800, needing the wrong side of £500 spending on it, I sold it as is to the garage for £500.
> For the next two years I drove Lady Byegads car, mostly on a holiday and days out. She drove it 4 or 5 days a week for shopping, meeting friends and following her hobbies. A completely fair assessment was we covered almost exactly the same mileage each Yr. So, at her first renewal I insured it in her name. The next year she insured it. Each time naming the other as a driver. Then a couple of months later, she had a brain abscess necessitating a hole in her head to drain it, and so incurring a perfectly understandable withdrawal of her licence for a minimum of one year by DVLA.
> ...


You appear to be suggesting that all car insurance companies aren't


Brads said:


> Insurance companies are scum, end off.


I think some people have a different view albeit knee jerk.


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## screenman (23 Oct 2020)

byegad said:


> We had two cars from '94, when we married, to early 2018. My last three MOTs recorded 3500/2500/3000miles in each Yr. It was costing around £800/annum, to Tax, insure, service and MOT.
> The last MOT had several faults needing rectification, all had been warnings in the previous MOTs.
> So, at a book price of £800, needing the wrong side of £500 spending on it, I sold it as is to the garage for £500.
> For the next two years I drove Lady Byegads car, mostly on a holiday and days out. She drove it 4 or 5 days a week for shopping, meeting friends and following her hobbies. A completely fair assessment was we covered almost exactly the same mileage each Yr. So, at her first renewal I insured it in her name. The next year she insured it. Each time naming the other as a driver. Then a couple of months later, she had a brain abscess necessitating a hole in her head to drain it, and so incurring a perfectly understandable withdrawal of her licence for a minimum of one year by DVLA.
> ...




The worrying part for me here is you had warnings but did nothing about them.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Oct 2020)

byegad said:


> I informed the RAC



Ah, the RAW gawdbless 'em. After paying them a reasonable amount of money every month for years, (and never actually needing to call them out) the dashboard on my Prius lit up like something on the USS Enterprise (the Star Trek one, not the Aircraft carrier) and I had to give them a tinkle.

When the Mechanic reached me he said (and I quote) 'LOL, we don't do hybrids'. As it turns out they absolutely do not do hybrids. I have now heard this from several trusted sources.

A while later my wife broken down in a different car and after six and a half hours of waiting on the roadside for them gave up on waiting and made other other arrangements.

I have cancelled my RAC membership now, but they still call me every few weeks asking if they can entice me back into the fold. I ask if they support hybrids yet, they confirm that they do not and myself and the call centre bot part ways.


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## Drago (23 Oct 2020)

When I cancelled my RAC membership (you get free RAC so longnas you get your Volvo serviced at the dealer annually, so no longer needed to buy my own) they were desperate to keep me. "What about the no claims discount youve accruded?", they cried. Generous souls that they are, for only £5 a month they would keep my NCD current until I rejoined them. Nothing else for the fiver, just that. I was keen to not take them up on their offer.


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## Andrew_Culture (23 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> When I cancelled my RAC membership (you get free RAC so longnas you get your Volvo serviced at the dealer annually) they were desperate to keep me. "What about the no claims discount youve accruded?", they cried. Generous souls that they are, for only £5 a month they would keep my NCD current until I rejoined them. Nothing else for the fiver, just that. I was keen to not take them up on their offer.


When they ring me and demand to know how I can possibly live my life without sharing a portion of my income with them I remind them that I am not a car owner.


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## Brads (23 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> What premiums? I was cycling home. Your burbling.


Which you hadn't mentioned.
Thanks for the polite reply mind. Have great day.


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## mustang1 (23 Oct 2020)

avecReynolds531 said:


> + 1
> After decades, the idea of using bikes as everyday transport seems to be gaining credibility once more.



I hope this one sticks but we've had a few bike booms over the decades which seem to fizzle out after a while.


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## I like Skol (23 Oct 2020)

mustang1 said:


> I hope this one sticks but we've had a few bike booms over the decades which seem to fizzle out after a while.


It's the weather innit? People have become so used to being cosseted from door to door that they are now afraid of getting a bit wet or having to dress up against the elements. The current surge following recent sporting success and then boosted further by the Covid situation will likely die out in the coming years as all these 'car free' campaigners gradually and discreetly return to their convenient old ways once out of the spotlight.

The answer is not to replace car use but to address the need for most of these pointless journeys.


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## byegad (23 Oct 2020)

I got a letter from Direct Line yesterday telling me they'll refund me a percentage of the premium if I under shoot my predicted annual mileage. All I have to do is tell them my present odometer reading, then at renewal tell them again, and I'll get a reduction on my next policy.


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## Notafettler (23 Oct 2020)

Brads said:


> Which you hadn't mentioned.
> Thanks for the polite reply mind. Have great day.






Notafettler said:


> They offered to pay for me to rent a bike


Theres a clue


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## I like Skol (23 Oct 2020)

byegad said:


> I got a letter from Direct Line yesterday telling me they'll refund me a percentage of the premium if I under shoot my predicted annual mileage. All I have to do is tell them my present odometer reading, then at renewal tell them again, and I'll get a reduction on my next policy.


I can see the obvious flaw with that offer.....


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## Notafettler (23 Oct 2020)

fossyant said:


> <<<<< I use my car to carry important things <<<<<
> 
> .


Yourself!


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## byegad (23 Oct 2020)

I like Skol said:


> I can see the obvious flaw with that offer.....


Well yes, the quote for renewal will be High. Time will tell as I'm due to new at the end of November, I'll report back.


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## simongt (23 Oct 2020)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I get no joy from owning such a financial liability.


Agree with your observation. We have a car which does about the same amount of miles annually as I ride. I drive when I need to; crap weather, distance, load carrying, but I certainly do not enjoy driving. If none of the above caveats apply, give me the bike anytime. 
Had my annual insurance quote in a few days ago and so began the annual 'discussion'.  I fire back several better quotes from other insurers and thus get a much better deal with my current insurer. What a waste of time and effort - !  What does puzzle me though is that the car and I are both getting older; I'm 67 with a full no claims bonus. Been with this insurer umpteen years, so why does the premuim keep going up - ?


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## fossyant (23 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Yourself!



Nope I'm not important. Bikes are.


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## I like Skol (23 Oct 2020)

simongt said:


> What does puzzle me though is that the car and I are both getting older; I'm 67 with a full no claims bonus. Been with this insurer umpteen years, so why does the premuim keep going up - ?


You kind of answer your own question. Change providers to a cheaper one, you are being charged for your loyalty.
In my case, once out of the 'young male' category I have managed to effectively maintain premiums at a stable level once you factor in inflation, changes in use and vehicle type. Sometimes the same company manages to keep my business for more than a year, but once they exceed the market they lose my custom.
This market force from all customers is the only way to keep them competing against each other and stop the blatant profiteering that can occur in a less active market place.


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## simongt (23 Oct 2020)

And of course, there's the company ploy of 'here's your new quote, if you're happy you need do nothing - !' And so many folk bung it in their 'to do tray' at home to deal with later and suddenly it's too later and the premuim has been whipped out of their bank account - ! 🤣


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## Brads (23 Oct 2020)

Notafettler said:


> Theres a clue




Yup, certainly gives me a good clue about you right enough.

Was it a motorbike ?


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## si_c (23 Oct 2020)

Mrs C drives, I don't and never have.

We both try to avoid unneccessary journeys - Mrs C walks or rides to work weather/post work activities permitting and as there is a supermarket within walking distance (under a mile there and back) we dont' use it for shopping other than once or twice a month for bulkier items and often Mrs C does that on the way home from work anyway. The upshot is that the car barely put 2.5k miles on last year which is not too bad.

I ride everywhere and certainly have never felt I should have a car myself, living in a largely urbanised area there is just no need.


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## MrGrumpy (23 Oct 2020)

Not quite so easy with a family , you would have to be committed to the cause !


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## Drago (23 Oct 2020)

Aside from people keep giving me cars, the omly reason I carry on is because of Mrs D's wheelchair. As valiant as I like I cant balance that and her on the crossbar. As it is, I ride more than 3 times as many miles as I drive. Indeed, I do so lottle car mileage it actually becomes a ballache to keep the car in good order and ready for action.


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## Edwardoka (24 Oct 2020)

I know literally nothing about car ownership (I have neither TV nor driving licence ) so forgive my ignorance - do you need to declare *everything* that happens to your car?

A catalytic converter getting stolen is a major pain in the ass and would definitely increase your premiums on account of the neighbourhood being considered riskier. Would it not have been cheaper to replace it yourself than to claim it on your insurance?

I understand that getting the insurance company involved after a collision is mandatory, but if it's a no-fault claim why would you lose your NCB?


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## screenman (24 Oct 2020)

Cost is rising its head a lot on this topic, what will you be doing with the spare money you gain?


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## Pale Rider (24 Oct 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> but if it's a no-fault claim why would you lose your NCB?



Not sure if you meant something else, but NCB stands for No Claims Bonus.

Fault doesn't come into it - a claim is a claim.

Worth pointing out a claim means you lose a proportion of the bonus, not all of it.

Many of us, including me, pay a few quid extra for a protected NCB.

Not sure if it's worth it.


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## Edwardoka (24 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> Not sure if you meant something else, but NCB stands for No Claims Bonus.
> 
> Fault doesn't come into it - a claim is a claim.
> 
> ...


I knew NCB meant no claims bonus, but wasn't sure if those cases where it was 100% the other party's fault would be excluded, since the entire settlement would come out of the other driver's insurance.


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## Pale Rider (24 Oct 2020)

Edwardoka said:


> I knew NCB meant no claims bonus, but wasn't sure if those cases where it was 100% the other party's fault would be excluded, since the entire settlement would come out of the other driver's insurance.



Seems to me something of a grey area.

In the example you quote, 'you' haven't made a claim on your insurance, so your NCB ought to be left alone.

However, there's nothing to stop the insurance company upping the base premium due to your involvement in an incident.

The result is the same - a bigger insurance bill for you.

In the OP's case, he made a claim for the catalytic converter theft which was not strictly his fault, which meant a loss of a proportion of his bonus.

I say 'strictly' because the insurance company could say he was at fault by leaving his car unattended in an area in which converter thieves operate.

The insurance company took on the risk 'car parked on street overnight', set an appropriate premium for that risk, and paid the claim when it arose.

Equally, the OP would have known that in the event of such a claim, he would lose some of his bonus.

The phrase: "where's the beef?" springs to mind.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Oct 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> Not quite so easy with a family , you would have to be committed to the cause !



I've been told this a number of times, but it's not as hard as people think: the Eldest of my kids is now 18 and we haven't ever owned a car since we were married. For my kids it meant greater independence because they went to school by public transport and because of this have a free pass for the city: any time they want to go anywhere they just go: no waiting for the Papa taxi. I appreciate that public transport is probably better organised than in the UK, but we don't live in the city of Stuttgart, and while the bus service isn't that bad it isn't brilliant, or very frequent.

To me it's much harder to deal with owning a very large, complex, and expensive vehicle that I'm responsible for maintaining to the mandated standards, to keep it safe less likely to kill people, for which I have to pay for tests, fuelling, insuring, and ultimately replacing, all of which costs an apparently large amount of money. 

I also have to figure out storage, although for many car owners the solution to this seems to be to make someone else pay for that aspect.

I think a lot of the difficulty is connected to the expectations people have on others and their own lives. When I was in technical college I lived further away from the college than my peers. I also was the only one who cycled there. I was also the only one consistently on time. The four consistently late students were the four who came by car, and every time they were stressed, tired, and in winter vocally cold for the first hour. I'd arrive punctually, awake and always warm.

I'm not saying it's possible for everyone: we have the advantage of more traffic free cycle routes than you'd get in the UK, and I don't own a company that needs to deliver bulky items, for example, but it isn't as difficult as people sometimes assume. 

I think that sometimes it is a matter of priorities and planning, and making a specific decision to work in a certain way.


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## Notafettler (24 Oct 2020)

screenman said:


> Cost is rising its head a lot on this topic, what will you be doing with the spare money you gain?


Beer


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## Brooks (24 Oct 2020)

Great post Andy, I love hearing how other folk get by without a car it's inspiring really. London is extremely well served by public transport so it's much easier to be car free. I appreciate it's much harder if someone lives in a semi rural environment.
I can get by without a car but once thought that impossible like many people do.


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## Drago (24 Oct 2020)

I live in a village and unless youre disabled its no impediment. 2 big towns are a half hour ride away, the Docs is 20 minutes away, local shops are within half an hour, and big shops (and just about anything else you can think of) can be delivered to your door anyway.

Unless youre disabled and need a wheelchair like Mrs D, rural living is no impediment. If you really want to do it then you will do it. If you don't, you will make excuses instead.


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## Brooks (24 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> I live in a village and unless youre disabled its no impediment. 2 big towns are a half hour ride away, the Docs is 20 minutes away, local shops are within half an hour, and big shops (and just about anything else you can think of) can be delivered to your door anyway.
> 
> Unless youre disabled and need a wheelchair like Mrs D, rural living is no impediment. If you really want to do it then you will do it. If you don't, you will make excuses instead.


That's very interesting and you have a refreshing view on it as well. A friend pointed me in the direction of this Facebook group campaigning against the implementation of safer streets measures in Camden. The anti cycling feeling is bordering on derangement. After pointing out the benefits of walking and cycling to the shops I'm now banned from the group 😂😂😂


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## Andy in Germany (24 Oct 2020)

Brooks said:


> That's very interesting and you have a refreshing view on it as well. A friend pointed me in the direction of this Facebook group campaigning against the implementation of safer streets measures in Camden. The anti cycling feeling is bordering on derangement. After pointing out the benefits of walking and cycling to the shops I'm now banned from the group 😂😂😂



That's a problem at the moment in many groups, on and off line: anyone who dares speak against the accepted wisdom isn't engaged with, but dismissed as a heretic.


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## Brooks (24 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> That's a problem at the moment in many groups, on and off line: anyone who dares speak against the accepted wisdom isn't engaged with, but dismissed as a heretic.


Scary isn't it?😂


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## Blue Hills (24 Oct 2020)

Brooks said:


> Scary isn't it?😂


look on the positive side - if they are unwilling to engage with those with opposing views they are hardly likely to strengthen their arguments. Just disappear up their own exhaust pipes.


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## bladesman73 (24 Oct 2020)

Lovely. You wont regret it. My wife has a car but I cycle everywhere, all weathers. Just get the right clothing and no matter what you will be ok.


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## matticus (24 Oct 2020)

When I was born, I joined my big sister in the poor-house. We lived with all the other children from car-less households, 30 to a dorm; this was pre-internet, so we didn't know where Dagenham was, let alone how to read or write. 

It was an amazing day when Dad saved up enough for the car deposit - but it was sad to be taken away from all our childhood friends.


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## MrGrumpy (24 Oct 2020)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been told this a number of times, but it's not as hard as people think: the Eldest of my kids is now 18 and we haven't ever owned a car since we were married. For my kids it meant greater independence because they went to school by public transport and because of this have a free pass for the city: any time they want to go anywhere they just go: no waiting for the Papa taxi. I appreciate that public transport is probably better organised than in the UK, but we don't live in the city of Stuttgart, and while the bus service isn't that bad it isn't brilliant, or very frequent.
> 
> To me it's much harder to deal with owning a very large, complex, and expensive vehicle that I'm responsible for maintaining to the mandated standards, to keep it safe less likely to kill people, for which I have to pay for tests, fuelling, insuring, and ultimately replacing, all of which costs an apparently large amount of money.
> 
> ...


If I really wanted too or needed too I could make it work I suppose. Only thing is my wife runs her own business and that involves house calls due to the nature of said business. Yes she could do it on a cargo bike , but in reality that’s a pipe dream until we have proper dedicated safe cycling lanes etc . I cycle to work most of the time , that’s my commitment but it’s got cock all to do with saving the planet  . I like food and beer/wine so it’s A trade off and it’s my only exercise these days.
Youngest cycles to school now ( no bus for now ) , however he does get dropped off if weather rubbish. The other two boys drive to work , no other option due to location . That’s public transport for you !!


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## itboffin (24 Oct 2020)

i managed 10 years with a car that sat on the driveway as i rode 17 miles each way to the station then train to London followed by 3 miles each way to the office, 5 days a week. then 3.5 years ago i changed job and a train not an option so back in the car for a 165 mile round trip 5 then 4 and now 0 days a week.

Whilst i use a bike for almost all transport i live in a super hilly part of the west country and our nearest shops are 15 miles round trip with multiple 15% climbs thrown in so using a bike for shopping is out added to which the most direct route is a road you really wouldnt want to ride a bike on, my point being its very much swings and roundabouts when it comes to living in remote locations car free, if only villages like mine still had local facilities. Hey ho!


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## Andrew_Culture (24 Oct 2020)

Okay, this has gained more attention than I thought it would, so just for clarification....

*Mincing*
I'm not complaining about insurance so much as mincing off from the game entirely. A bit like someone I knew who quit smoking when the taxes got so high cigarettes passed a financial threshold he was prepared to tolerate.

*No fun*
I try and minimise financial liabilities on objects I have no affection for. Cars fall into that category.

*Missing cat*
I had to claim for the stolen catalytic converter due to temporary fiscal shortfall (being skint). The insurance company repaid me roughly half the cost of replacement, so we kinda went halves on that one and paid £300 each.

*Unscheduled aerodynamic remodelling*
The door that was driven into had to be claimed for because it compromised the safety features of the door making the car unfit for passengers in the rear seats, AKA the heir to my modest fortune.

*Confusing careless carless confusion*
I'm not going carless - my wife now has the car. I have closed my office due to covid and the school run is the only place I have to go, so we cycle or walk the couple of miles between our castle and the halls of academia my spawn is enlisted at.

*Keeping up with keying*
I didn't plan to report the car being keyed, because frankly I wasn't too upset about it. But when someone reversed into my car I knew from experience that the very thorough inspection carried by the loss adjuster would highly the scratch in the paintwork, thereby initiating a discussion about whether my insurer would consider me a fully disclosing customer. No full disclose = invalid insurance. Driving with no insurance = quite rightly illegal.

*Passive liability and the art of zen*
In addition to the aforementioned discourtesies my Prius has suffered, I have previously had two cars totally written off while they were parked right outside my house. At this stage if I was an insurance company I'd make a hissing sound like escaping gas if I tried to insure me.

A friend of a friend has just been diagnosed with COVID so we're now self-isolating for a while. So not having a car at the moment is easy.


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## Brandane (25 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> Unless youre disabled and need a wheelchair like Mrs D, rural living is no impediment. If you really want to do it then you will do it. If you don't, you will make excuses instead.


Or you will enjoy the convenience of car ownership and take the financial hit. For my personal circumstances, it is worth the cost.


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## Drago (25 Oct 2020)

Eactly Brandane. You simply don't _want_ make the leap, and you make no bones about it. That makes you one of the few really honest motorists.


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## oldwheels (25 Oct 2020)

Brandane said:


> Or you will enjoy the convenience of car ownership and take the financial hit. For my personal circumstances, it is worth the cost.


For me a car is almost essential to retain my sanity. I live in a small town with a barely adequate Coop for basic food and I live at the top of a steep hill with all shops at the bottom. Walking is not really an option for me as I have a Blue Badge due to limited walking ability. Cycling is not really an option and the trike is not possible either due to a dangerous corner with mad tourists bombing around and in any case is probably too steep with a load.
The bus service to the main ferry terminal is really designed for tourists and even local hospital visits are in summer not possible due to tourist traffic filling the buses from the terminals and in winter limited timetables. Visits to mainland and back can be done by bus but not every ferry has a bus connection and ferry times can be disrupted for a variety of reasons leaving you stuck 21 miles from home in winter darkness. 
Mainland hospital visits need a taxi to and from the hospital and since I get concessionary fares it really costs very little to take my car on the ferry with shelter from the elements at both sides and space for shopping and even emergency accommodation if required.
Insurance is another topic but due to age they have me over a barrel as even quotations are hard to get.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> Eactly Brandane. You simply don't _want_ make the leap, and you make no bones about it. That makes you one of the few really honest motorists.


I won't apologise for owning a car, I enjoy driving and I find it the most convenient way of getting around. I also use the bus (Though that went out the window with Covid) as I have a bus pass.

The one vehicle I wouldn't touch _as a matter of transport_ is a bicycle. That kind of cycling has no interest for me, it is slow and adversely effected by the weather with limited load carrying ability. Cycling has always been a sport for me, not a utility.


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## Drago (25 Oct 2020)

Whereas for me cycling is a way of life.


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## Brandane (25 Oct 2020)

Drago said:


> Whereas for me cycling is a way of life.


It is for me, too. But not to the exclusion of other activities which are made easier by having easy access to a car. In fact, some of my cycling activities are aided by use of the car, for instance by using it to transport the MTB to some of the more remote MTB trails in the borders (7 Stanes). 
I will also confess to sometimes enjoying just "going for a drive". Around here it can still be enjoyable, as the roads aren't as busy as parts of the more built up areas of the UK that I have had the misfortune to drive in. I enjoy being protected from the weather by my tin shelter, and listening to my choice of music, and not having to share my space with some of the more antisocial people who use public transport.


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## Blue Hills (25 Oct 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> The one vehicle I wouldn't touch _as a matter of transport_ is a bicycle. That kind of cycling has no interest for me, it is slow and adversely effected by the weather with limited load carrying ability. Cycling has always been a sport for me, not a utility.


Each to their own but I don't find the bicycle slow - for most journeys round London it's the fastest, including train and tube - once won a pint off a foreign visitor who couldn't believe that I'd be home before him with him taking a direct train from London Bridge. I only bet on sure things  If going to the other end of the country, with substantial luggage (I often do) I just pop the bike on a train, cycling at both ends. Pretty sure on that trip I'd beat you as well, and arrive far less stressed. I don't consider this "cheating" - part of the wonder of the bike.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Pretty sure on that trip I'd beat you as well, and arrive far less stressed. I don't consider this "cheating" - part of the wonder of the bike.


I don't find driving stressful and never have, and believe it or not one or two of us don't live in London.


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## Blue Hills (25 Oct 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> and believe it or not one or two of us don't live in London.


I fully accept and understand that. Hence I quoted another journey example.
I am not a londoner. Not by origin anyway.


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## Mike Ayling (26 Oct 2020)

itboffin said:


> i managed 10 years with a car that sat on the driveway as i rode 17 miles each way to the station then train to London followed by 3 miles each way to the office, 5 days a week. then 3.5 years ago i changed job and a train not an option so back in the car for a 165 mile round trip 5 then 4 and now 0 days a week.
> 
> Whilst i use a bike for almost all transport i live in a super hilly part of the west country and our nearest shops are 15 miles round trip with multiple 15% climbs thrown in so using a bike for shopping is out added to which the most direct route is a road you really wouldnt want to ride a bike on, my point being its very much swings and roundabouts when it comes to living in remote locations car free, if only villages like mine still had local facilities. Hey ho!


Crikey, how long does the 82.5 mile trip take you?


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## itboffin (26 Oct 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Crikey, how long does the 82.5 mile trip take you?



Pre lockdown anything from 1.5 hours to 4 each way depending on the number of accidents on the M4 that day


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## Blue Hills (26 Oct 2020)

Cripes. Yes, that's why driving is often stressful. Unpredictable jams, lines at traffic lights which take several changes to get through. Many's the time on a bike i have felt sorry for drivers as I breeze straight through, knowing that many will be stuck for another two changes at least. One of the primary causes of stress is lack of personal control, and contrary to what the ads would have you believe, cars very often don't deliver it.


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## dave r (26 Oct 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> I won't apologise for owning a car, I enjoy driving and I find it the most convenient way of getting around. I also use the bus (Though that went out the window with Covid) as I have a bus pass.
> 
> The one vehicle I wouldn't touch _as a matter of transport_ is a bicycle. That kind of cycling has no interest for me, it is slow and adversely effected by the weather with limited load carrying ability. Cycling has always been a sport for me, not a utility.



I came back to cycling in 1979 and used it for transport, it got me around, it got me to and from work, and did so up until 2012 when I brought my first car, even when I had the car I commuted to work by bike, and did so until I retired. I did my first club ride in 1985 and did my last one around 2008, these days the car usually gets used for transport and the bike for leisure rides. The bike is OK for transport.


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## Moodyman (26 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Cripes. Yes, that's why driving is often stressful. Unpredictable jams, lines at traffic lights which take several changes to get through. Many's the time on a bike i have felt sorry for drivers as I breeze straight through, knowing that many will be stuck for another two changes at least. *One of the primary causes of stress is lack of personal control, and contrary to what the ads would have you believe, cars very often don't deliver it.*



This. A bicycle gives a degree of control that other modes don't.


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## gcogger (26 Oct 2020)

At least 95% of my car usage over the last few years has been the commute to work, or the grocery shopping.
The work commute takes ~50-60mins each way (less since Covid due to reduced traffic, though I don't go to the office so much now). Occasionally the journey home takes an extra 10 mins. Perhaps once or twice a year, it can be as much as 1hr30.
To cycle would be 35 miles on horrible roads. The train takes anything from 1hr20 to ~2hrs depending on the the time of day, assuming they're running OK. My wife does part of that journey by train, and often has late/cancelled train issues. At the moment, she also has to cope with young people not wearing masks 
For the shopping, I come home with the boot of the car pretty much full, so don't see a sensible alternative in that case. Perhaps Ocado or similar, but I think I'd still need to do the occasional 'in person' shop.
So for _me_, the car is for transport and the bike is for leisure. (I'm not saying that's how it should be for everyone).


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## CXRAndy (27 Oct 2020)

I'm a car fan, but dont do a great many miles these days. Also mine are electric cars


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## Andrew_Culture (29 Oct 2020)

The fun rolls on. Admiral have 'reviewed' my wife's policy and have decided to up the amount she pays by £10 a month for her insurance. So we're nearly back to where were when I owned the car.

That promotes car insurance to number 4 in the monthly outgoings hit parade, surpassed only by mortgage, council and and food. The only way it could be cheaper would be for my wife to give up her job and get rid of the car.


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## Jefferson Meriwether (22 Nov 2020)

It's been 11 years now since I've owned a car. For most of that time I was still single and was mainly reliant on my bicycle as a mode of transport; I occasionally used the rural bus service.

Back at the start of 2017 I moved & got married. My wife has a car that I do use a fair bit so I'm no longer completely car free. I can't see myself ever going back to owning a car myself; I enjoy the financial freedom too much.


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## Andrew_Culture (8 Jul 2021)

I'm still carless! Now that lockdown has eased a bit I've started walking to work. If I drop the heir off at school and then head on to the office I can rack up a five mile strut!

My legs hurt.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jul 2021)

I came close to going carless. I had to ditch my car due to ULEZ (and it was falling to bits and expensively struggling with its MoTs). I was planning to switch to Zip Cars but purely by chance a mate happened to be selling his Hyundai i10 at the time so I took it off his hands at a mutually acceptable price.

I don't like driving at all - yes I find it very stressful - and we don't use the car a lot. As a Londoner I rarely use the car for short trips except for occasional need to transport large things (garden centre a handful of times a year, tip once a year) and sometimes taxi service to get friends home late at night. We get nearly all shopping delivered, and what we don't get delivered we bring home on foot/by train. So that leaves occasional visits to friends/family around the country plus holidays in France.

I feel a bit of a coward at ducking the opportunity to try the Zip Car experiment. Maybe sometime ...

Oddly enough I never cycle for utility purposes. This comes from living in London where most destinations are easily reached by walking or getting the train/bus. Plus the high security risk to any parked bike. When I return to office working I'll probably cycle commute as I'm not looking forward to the petri-dish of train commuting.


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## Andy in Germany (8 Jul 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I feel a bit of a coward at ducking the opportunity to try the Zip Car experiment. Maybe sometime ...



We tried the local version of Zip car, although we came at it from the other side of not having a car and thinking it may come in useful.

Trouble is we then got a work bike and found excuses not to use the car, and we realised we were paying a subscription for nothing much, and I found it more stressful every time...

So I guess it worked oin a way, just not in the way expected...


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## gavroche (8 Jul 2021)

What is this zip car some of you are mentioning? Never heard of it.


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## icowden (8 Jul 2021)

gavroche said:


> What is this zip car some of you are mentioning? Never heard of it.



It's a quick hire car model whereby you search for a car near you and hire it for one hour or more paying an hourly rate (£8.50) (or daily rate if you go over x hours). The rate is different if you are going one way or dropping it back to where it was They unlock using your smart phone. In the UK I think it's just in that thar London.


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## MichaelW2 (8 Jul 2021)

Sounds like car clubs. I am a membe of Co Wheels which is a not for profit social enterprise. Lots if vehicles in my part of town, from small cars to big vans. I take one out maybe once/month.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jul 2021)

MichaelW2 said:


> Sounds like car clubs. I am a membe of Co Wheels which is a not for profit social enterprise. Lots if vehicles in my part of town, from small cars to big vans. I take one out maybe once/month.


It's mainly London in the UK but they also say they have a presence in Bristol, Cambridge and Oxford. In my area of London they are a common sight. When you factor in tax, insurance, servicing and general hassle of owning a car it can be a money/time saver - depending on your usage level. 

The main downsides from my perspective are that you generally can't take them abroad (some exceptions I think) - and we go to France quite regularly, and bike racks are at best a big problem and at worst impossible.


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## kayakerles (13 Jul 2021)

They work great here in the States (I live outside of Washington DC) . Gas (petrol) is also included in your cost. There is a credit card in the vehicle and you just need to drop off the vehicle with at least 1/4 tank. Only carried a bike with me once, but without a rack, I put it in the back of an SUV. CAUTION... larger vehicles will cost more. If I used it more often I might buy my own mountable/removable bike rack, and rent vehicles I knew it would fit. Lots of Zip cars here. Probably at least a dozen I could walk to. To bad over there you can’t take them abroad with so many destinations close enough to drive. One more thing, really just for day trips. Over-nights cost a lot.  Better off just getting a rental.


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## kayakerles (13 Jul 2021)

We use one (in non-pandemic times) around 4 - 6 times a year. Car-less for the last 4 - 5 years. Don’t miss crazy traffic either. I can handle public transit when not riding my bike.


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