# Disk brakes on a folding bike



## CEBEP (12 Aug 2022)

I never used disk brakes on a bicycle. Birdy Touring was my first one with disk brakes. Mine came with Shimano T6000 hydraulic brakes. I read somewhere, that disk brakes on small wheels are too aggressive and hard to manage. Reason being higher stopping power due to smaller wheels. It wasn’t the case for me with T6000. After Brompton’s caliper brakes, I had no issues getting used to disks. Lever is very light to press, one finger will do. Modulation is awesome, brakes start to bite consistently at the same point. For emergency braking it’s easy to modulate to avoid locking the wheel. Stopping performance will differ on what rubber you have and with Big Apples on mine, it stops very well. And it doesn’t dive due to Birdy’s front suspension design. Disk brakes are awesome on folding bikes.


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## Cycleops (12 Aug 2022)

Agreed, I have discs on my Bike Friday, only cable operated but work well. Can’t understand why they haven’t made an appearance on the Brompton.


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## rogerzilla (12 Aug 2022)

There's not much space, it would bump up the carrying weight, and a lot of redesign would be needed (e.g. stiffer, stronger fork, which would make the ride worse).

Modders like Steve Parry have done it, I think.


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## Nibor (12 Aug 2022)

Kinetics do Brompton forks and rear triangels with disk mounts


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## berlinonaut (12 Aug 2022)

I have a Brompton with disk brakes on a Kintectics rear triangle and fork - nothing to complain about. On another folder I do have disk brakes as well - no issues. On folders there are two potential issues with disk brakes:
• they are heavier than rim brakes. So nothing for weight wheenies.
• when the disk gets bent you are doomed for your trip. On a folder the danger that the disk gets bent is higher than on a normal bike.
Modulation or "too raw power" has never been an issue, neither on a normal bike nor on a folder. No idea where @CEBEP got this "info" from. Sometimes there's false information that get echoed over and over on the internet and sometimes this even leads to a product: On my Bike Friday with V-brakes one of the pervious owners mounted a "thingy" on the front brake that would linder the "massive power" of the brake to avoid rolling over the front wheel  These thingies were popular for a while when V-brakes were relatively new, basically kind of an ABS because people were in fear because of their power. Ricidulous back then and even more today. For the same reason coaster brakes on the backwheel where popular (and more or less standard) on bikes in Germany. When I was a child I was tought (and this was the general opinion) I should avoid using the front brake to avoid rolling over the front wheel. Totally idiotic and in terms of optimal breaking against the laws of phyics. Rumors are hard to come by.

BTW: I do not think disc brakes are necessary on a Brompton. The rim brakes are fine. Advantage of disc brakes is cleaner rims and no rim wear.


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## CEBEP (12 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> • when the disk gets bent you are doomed for your trip. On a folder the danger that the disk gets bent is higher than on a normal bike.



_Safety Disk Brake_​_One of the most eye-catching, patented accessories produced by DAHON this year; it won the Gold Award at the Innovation Awards during the China Cycle Show in May. Its key advantage is its offset internal structure that effectively protects the disc, avoiding knocks and collisions; even after years of use, the disc will resist warping, offering improved performance compared to ordinary disc brakes. The Safety Disk Brake is more versatile, with better handling than that of ordinary disc brakes, thanks to its inset of 15mm. For the folding bikes market, it fundamentally solves disk brake installation problems such as bulky folding volumes and increased body weight, optimizing its appearance and performance. Internationally available from 2022, these new safety disc brakes will be fully applied to all DAHON models equipped with disc brakes._















berlinonaut said:


> BTW: I do not think disc brakes are necessary on a Brompton. The rim brakes are fine. Advantage of disc brakes is cleaner rims and no rim wear.



I agree that caliper brakes on Brompton are adequate in dry conditions. I don’t ride when it rains and can’t comment on that.


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## berlinonaut (13 Aug 2022)

Interesting. I do not know how big or relevant the "bent disc" problem is in reality. Possible (and I suspect that this is the case), that it is massively overrated. But if it hits you while traveling it has massive impact and most of the times there's not rally a quick fix. In terms of risc management it thus a risc that you would like to avoid.


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## MrM83 (13 Aug 2022)

Nibor said:


> Kinetics do Brompton forks and rear triangels with disk mounts


I have been running a Kinetics disc brake solution for 10 years now. It works perfectly and inspires confidence. I was never impressed by the rim brakes on the Brompton, especially in the wet. Furthermore most people adding disc brakes to a Brompton will likely have a modified rear hub, which is another reason to not want to use rim brakes with respect to rim wear.


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## TheDoctor (13 Aug 2022)

I can vouch that the standard brakes on a Brommie, with pink pads on the front, are very capable of stopping the bike and 100kg of fat bastard from 50 mph. If I was going to fit a disc anywhere, it certainly wouldn't be on the back.


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## tinywheels (14 Aug 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Agreed, I have discs on my Bike Friday, only cable operated but work well. Can’t understand why they haven’t made an appearance on the Brompton.



I contacted brompton a while ago ref them starting a skunkworks type division. With a remit to produce eye-catching and well engineered kit.
there is a large market for this world wide 
Their reply was no need we are doing fine. 
meanwhile countless manufacturers churn out bling goodies and better than standard parts.
That new lightweight brompton shows the market is waiting for quality products


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## Cycleops (14 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> I contacted brompton a while ago ref them starting a skunkworks type division. With a remit to produce eye-catching and well engineered kit.
> there is a large market for this world wide
> Their reply was no need we are doing fine.
> meanwhile countless manufacturers churn out bling goodies and better than standard parts.
> That new lightweight brompton shows the market is waiting for quality products


Innovation left the company with Andrew Ritchie. He left the board in 2016 over the companies plans. It's now controlled by a bunch of Investors that see no point in refining it further. They just want a return on their money and think they're doing fine as it is


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## u_i (14 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> meanwhile countless manufacturers churn out bling goodies and better than standard parts.



Can you offer any supporting evidence?? My repeated experience with the aftermarket 'improvement' parts is trash on top of trash and I can offer plenty of evidence: https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/1185364-flawed-aftermarket-parts-accessories-3.html .


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## tinywheels (14 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> Can you offer any supporting evidence?? My repeated experience with the aftermarket 'improvement' parts is trash on top of trash and I can offer plenty of evidence: https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/1185364-flawed-aftermarket-parts-accessories-3.html .



joseph kuosac, Chris king etc,I won't go on.
I did specify well engineered bling.
if your looking on ali baba,I shan't enlighten you it would be like explaining physics to a slo worm.


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## u_i (14 Aug 2022)

Kuosac seems all right, but tangential to Brompton - sacrifice one thing for another. Chris King is not folding bike specific and I am unaware of it bringing any really needed improvement over what Brompton provides. I still see no evidence for "meanwhile countless manufacturers churn out bling goodies and better than standard parts".


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## CEBEP (14 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> Can you offer any supporting evidence?? My repeated experience with the aftermarket 'improvement' parts is trash on top of trash and I can offer plenty of evidence: https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/1185364-flawed-aftermarket-parts-accessories-3.html .



Ridea, Color+, Multi-S to name another few


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## u_i (14 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> Ridea, Color+, Multi-S to name another few



I have a Ridea adapter and I had a Color+ kickstand and neither has been of Brompton quality. In terms of value, of what you get per price, both have been ridiculous. I did not try Multi-S, as there are multiple brands and, over time, I found that expanding over brand range and budget spent, did not make things any better. The overall experience has been of reaching to a wider range of clueless designers who seem, nonetheless, to find an applauding audience, as this exchange suggests.


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## Schwinnsta (14 Aug 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Innovation left the company with Andrew Ritchie. He left the board in 2016 over the companies plans. It's now controlled by a bunch of Investors that see no point in refining it further. They just want a return on their money and think they're doing fine as it is



The T and P models seem post Ritchie to me. Am I wrong on this? Do you count those as innovative?


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## tinywheels (14 Aug 2022)

please can we move on
the plethora of aftermarket parts,superior in quality and design to brompton is undeniable. unless your cave has no tv reception nor Internet. 
no one stated the parts had to be folding bike specifically nor cheaper prices than brompton original. 
I suggest naysayers need to venture out more often


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## u_i (14 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> please can we move on
> the plethora of aftermarket parts,superior in quality and design to brompton is undeniable. unless your cave has no tv reception nor Internet.
> no one stated the parts had to be folding bike specifically nor cheaper prices than brompton original.
> I suggest naysayers need to venture out more often



I have presumably one of the most functional Bromptons on the planet, achieved through multiple modifications. All Brompton or folding bike specific parts that went on the bike, in the course of expanding its functionality, either came off or were heavily modified as they could not be otherwise used. I.e., I think I can speak some authority. Internet can do various things to various people. I don't take spreading misinformation lightly.


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## CEBEP (14 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> I have a Ridea adapter and I had a Color+ kickstand and neither has been of Brompton quality. In terms of value, of what you get per price, both have been ridiculous. I did not try Multi-S, as there are multiple brands and, over time, I found that expanding over brand range and budget spent, did not make things any better. The overall experience has been of reaching to a wider range of clueless designers who seem, nonetheless, to find an applauding audience, as this exchange suggests.



Why did you buy them in the first place then?


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## tinywheels (14 Aug 2022)

oh boy, someone has issues. 
when buying bits for your bike it's buyer beware. 
However with a bit of research and chatting to your mates, an informed decision can be made. 
Meanwhile here on planet earth, if something seems too cheap to be true, it's probably worth giving it a miss.
The brompton is a perfectly acceptable bike out of the box. Some people like to faff about and stick bits on them. Manufacturers know this, hence the aftermarket bits. 
Brompton are filling a gap with their new wunderwaffen.
Myself, I think a good product is let down by some cheapy components. 
That is what prompted me to write to brompton. 
They failed to provide the required bits, so I went elsewhere.


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## u_i (14 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> Why did you buy them in the first place then?



I wanted to expand Brompton's functionality and read positive opinions, such as hinted here. Notably, no product can be everything to everyone. After the first couple of mishaps, I thought it was bad luck, but as this continued I started developing a broader perspective both at the manufacturing of the folding bike aftermarket parts and opinions on them. Yes, sure one needs to be careful about opinions on anything, but the folding bike and particularly Brompton owner community exhibits a peculiar subculture.

As to other sentiments expressed in this thread, the advice of one of mentors to their mentees was "Do not read too much" meaning that the reading should not hamper the gaining one's own experiences by getting hands dirty.


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## Cycleops (14 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> I wanted to expand Brompton's functionality and read positive opinions, such as hinted here. Notably, no product can be everything to everyone. After the first couple of mishaps, I thought it was bad luck, but as this continued I started developing a broader perspective both at the manufacturing of the folding bike aftermarket parts and opinions on them. Yes, sure one needs to be careful about opinions on anything, but the folding bike and particularly Brompton owner community exhibits a peculiar subculture.
> 
> As to other sentiments expressed in this thread, the advice of one of mentors to their mentees was "Do not read too much" meaning that the reading should not hamper the gaining one's own experiences by getting hands dirty.


The thing about Brompton buyers is that the vast majority are not 'cyclists'. They are just people who want a particular option on commuting to work, hence there not interested in 'blinging up' or modding their bikes, it's the cyclists who want to do that.


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## tinywheels (15 Aug 2022)

Cycleops said:


> The thing about Brompton buyers is that the vast majority are not 'cyclists'. They are just people who want a particular option on commuting to work, hence there not interested in 'blinging up' or modding their bikes, it's the cyclists who want to do that.



I suspect your wrong. 
one of the first things brompton riders do is upgrade the awful little wheels that are fitted for rolling. Swiftly followed by the equally grim folding handles. Plus the nasty grips. 
I won't bang on about the other upgrades possible. 
So an eight mile a day commute plus regular long distance jaunts don't make a cyclist! OK, I must do better.


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## Cycleops (15 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> I suspect your wrong.
> one of the first things brompton riders do is upgrade the awful little wheels that are fitted for rolling. Swiftly followed by the equally grim folding handles. Plus the nasty grips.
> I won't bang on about the other upgrades possible.
> So an eight mile a day commute plus regular long distance jaunts don't make a cyclist! OK, I must do better.


Says a cyclist. That’s why you’re on here. The vast majority of owners aren’t bothered about that stuff. Brompton know that. I rest my case.


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## berlinonaut (15 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> one of the first things brompton riders do is upgrade the awful little wheels that are fitted for rolling.


"Bromton riders" do that? really? Out of 100 more less actual Bromptons, how many have fitted 3rd party wheels? How many of those who changed them did change them for bigger ones? How many because of better rolling needs? How many because of bling? I suspect a tiny fraction changed and almost none for functional reasons based on own experiences.

As you speak of "awful little wheels": Is it possible that you did not recognize that Brompton has changed the standard roller wheels already back in 2015 - seven years ago? Is it posiible that you did not recognize that since the early 2000s the "easy wheels" were available directly from Brompton as an upgrade? Are you one of those, who, based on 20 year old experiences, today actively talks people into "upgrading to easy wheels" in ignorance that the actual wheels exist in the first hand and - depending on what aspects are important to you - are either better than the easy wheels or at least almost as good?



tinywheels said:


> Swiftly followed by the equally grim folding handles.



I do own a bunch of Bromptons. One has folding handles that differ from standard - Eerdermetal ones. They were on the bike when I bought it used (and they are indeed better than factory standard). I do barely see 3rd party handles on the street and the people that have changed to 3rd party handles (apart from the Eerder ones) have done it for the optics - typically they even say they handle worse, but they look better.



tinywheels said:


> Plus the nasty grips.


That's true. 


tinywheels said:


> I won't bang on about the other upgrades possible.


Would be interesting. I have the suspicion that if back then when approaching Brompton with your idea of a tuning department they may not have liked your attitude and communication style but way more important: What you have in mind may be a market (and Brompton serve it themselves - they do have a small amount of "blingy" upgrade parts including handles since I think last year) but it it not at all relevant for the mission of the company which is about changing urban transport. So maybe you were too early, maybe you were too nasty, maybe your concept was not convincing to them, maybe your vision was not their vision.
If it was such a great idea: Why didn't you start your own business then and produce that kind of stuff? I you were right back then you would be a rich man by now...


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## CEBEP (15 Aug 2022)

I don’t know what Brompton changed 7 years ago, but on my 2021 models stock small wheels were total crap. Small plastic crap without bearings. I changed mines for original Brompton ones, but once you plan to change them it doesn’t matter what you will change them to. What matters is original wheels that comes with Brompton is crap. Then everyone is deciding for themselves which wheels to choose, Brompton’s Eazy wheels or third party ones if they want to pay alot less for same functionality. I’m pretty sure those who have rear racks, majority out of 100 owners would upgrade the wheels unless they’re mot a masochists.


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## Cycleops (15 Aug 2022)

It amazes me that companies practise this petty price cutting on parts especially when producing a premium product like a Brompton. How much does it save them fitting a poor quality item instead of something worthy of the brand. I don't know, a few quid? Over the thousands they produce I'm sure it's a substantial amount of savings but the harm it does the brand is immense when customers find they're having to replace poor fittings. I guess they have to keep the investors happy.


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## u_i (15 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> I don’t know what Brompton changed 7 years ago, but on my 2021 models stock small wheels were total crap. Small plastic crap without bearings. I changed mines for original Brompton ones, but once you plan to change them it doesn’t matter what you will change them to. What matters is original wheels that comes with Brompton is crap. Then everyone is deciding for themselves which wheels to choose, Brompton’s Eazy wheels or third party ones if they want to pay alot less for same functionality. I’m pretty sure those who have rear racks, majority out of 100 owners would upgrade the wheels unless they’re mot a masochists.



I hope your day job keeps you far from any engineering as those on the receiving end could be in some peril. Presumably, this is the case as you have a technician carry out even simple tasks for you. We are for years users of previous and now current Brompton roller wheels and I am unaware of any aftermarket better in that functionality. In design, you build layers where the outer layers are weaker, cheaper and easier to replace than the inner. Their fragility protects the more expensive, harder to replace items such as the rear triangle or rack. Otherwise, in spite of multiple specialized parts, Brompton keeps the price of the whole bike and of the replacement parts low by making parts as good as needed and not over-engineering. If you want gold-plated pedals, you are free to install them, just do not blame Brompton for not including them in the originally priced bike.


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## CEBEP (15 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> I hope your day job keeps you far from any engineering as those on the receiving end could be in some peril. Presumably, this is the case as you have a technician carry out even simple tasks for you. We are for years users of previous and now current Brompton roller wheels and I am unaware of any aftermarket better in that functionality. In design, you build layers where the outer layers are weaker, cheaper and easier to replace than the inner. Their fragility protects the more expensive, harder to replace items such as the rear triangle or rack. Otherwise, in spite of multiple specialized parts, Brompton keeps the price of the whole bike and of the replacement parts low by making parts as good as needed and not over-engineering. If you want gold-plated pedals, you are free to install them, just do not blame Brompton for not including them in the originally priced bike.



Well, actually I am an engineer and understand how Brompton Eazy wheels are designed and why they need to be placed the way they are placed on the rear rack. It doesn’t make stock roller wheels any better, they are still garbage. Considering your superior engineering skills, I’d hate to brake it to you, that a wheel that you are supposed to roll the bike with extra weight on is supposed to have a thingy called bearing. Not metal to plastic friction design. And the only reason why Brompton don’t install them stock is to charge you £24 a pare or 2x if you have a rear rack.

I didn’t get your attempt of humor with gold plated pedals, but my MKS Allways ones are absolutely superior and mich more comfortable than stock pedals.


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## u_i (15 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> Well, actually I am an engineer and understand how Brompton Eazy wheels are designed and why they need to be placed the way they are placed on the rear rack. It doesn’t make stock roller wheels any better, they are still garbage. Considering your superior engineering skills, I’d hate to brake it to you, that a wheel that you are supposed to roll the bike with extra weight on is supposed to have a thingy called bearing. Not metal to plastic friction design. And the only reason why Brompton don’t install them stock is to charge you £24 a pare or 2x if you have a rear rack.
> 
> I didn’t get your attempt of humor with gold plated pedals, but my MKS Allways ones are absolutely superior and mich more comfortable than stock pedals.



I am shocked here regarding these engineering skills as every roller wheel has a bearing. You seem to lump the concepts of a ball bearing and bearing, but friction or plain bearing is a bearing too. Nearly all suitcases come with roller wheels that lack ball bearings, yet those meant to be checked in are meant for higher loads than the weight of Brompton. So all those suitcase manufacturers produce rubbish and people should be swapping their suitcase wheels with the aftermarket ones. Well, the travel community is not this delusional.


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## CEBEP (15 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> I am shocked here regarding these engineering skills as every roller wheel has a bearing. You seem to lump the concepts of a ball bearing and bearing, but friction or plain bearing is a bearing too. Nearly all suitcases come with roller wheels that lack ball bearings, yet those meant to be checked in are meant for higher loads than the weight of Brompton. So all those suitcase manufacturers produce rubbish and people should be swapping their suitcase wheels with the aftermarket ones. Well, the travel community is not this delusional.



My Rimowa suitecase have ball bearing wheels. You can check for yourself with your engineering skills. I’d say Rimowa knows one or two things about building suitacases. Don’t you think?


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## u_i (15 Aug 2022)

My Carlton/Samsonite suitcases operate fine for decades w/o ball bearings. I spend on average a third of the year in travel and a have a couple of suitcases always full to be able to walk out of the door. You can always throw as much money product as you want.


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## CEBEP (15 Aug 2022)

I travel extensively, about a flight a week before Covid and know a few things about suitcases and their wheels performance.

I also had a Samsonite suit case with single wheel design (Rimowa and new Samsonites use double) which was absolutely terrible to roll. They used same cheap crap wheel design without ball-bearings, similar type that Brompton uses as stock wheels.

R&M Birdy is also considered a premium folding bike and R&M engineers wisely installed wheels on the rack with ball bearings. Exactly what Brompton was supposed to do too.


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## Cycleops (15 Aug 2022)

Bromptons to suitcases, well that was an interesting journey


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## cougie uk (15 Aug 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Bromptons to suitcases, well that was an interesting journey



With a fair bit of handbags too.


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## tinywheels (15 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> Well, actually I am an engineer and understand how Brompton Eazy wheels are designed and why they need to be placed the way they are placed on the rear rack. It doesn’t make stock roller wheels any better, they are still garbage. Considering your superior engineering skills, I’d hate to brake it to you, that a wheel that you are supposed to roll the bike with extra weight on is supposed to have a thingy called bearing. Not metal to plastic friction design. And the only reason why Brompton don’t install them stock is to charge you £24 a pare or 2x if you have a rear rack.
> 
> I didn’t get your attempt of humor with gold plated pedals, but my MKS Allways ones are absolutely superior and mich more comfortable than stock



Wow, outstanding. 
I feel you may be wasting your time, the fact someone considered those little roller wheels acceptable tells us all we need to know.


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## u_i (15 Aug 2022)

I suggest starting one's own bike company, superior to Brompton, and let' see where those engineering skills go. I won't be biting nails.


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

u_i said:


> I suggest starting one's own bike company, superior to Brompton, and let' see where those engineering skills go. I won't be biting nails.



please go to bed and get some rest.


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## Schwinnsta (16 Aug 2022)

I have read, I believe on this forum, that those cheap wheels that come stock on the frame and rack, are designed to fail so that if you're traveling and your bag is subject to being dropped, the wheels break before the rack or frame. So they are sacrificial.


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## CEBEP (16 Aug 2022)

Schwinnsta said:


> I have read, I believe on this forum, that those cheap wheels that come stock on the frame and rack, are designed to fail so that if you're traveling and your bag is subject to being dropped, the wheels break before the rack or frame. So they are sacrificial.



Optional Brompton Eazy wheels are designed with same functionality in mind, to protect triangle/frame. But they roll much better and provide additional clearance if you use rear rack.


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## rogerzilla (16 Aug 2022)

The biggest issue I had with the stock "rattlers" was that they flayed the skin from the inside of my calves.


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> on my 2021 models stock small wheels were total crap. Small plastic crap without bearings.


Astonishing. In this case you bought a fake Brompton b/c the Brompton wheels do have bearings.



CEBEP said:


> I changed mines for original Brompton ones, but once you plan to change them it doesn’t matter what you will change them to.


I hope you won't find out the hard way why you are wrong. That you are wrong is out of the question.



CEBEP said:


> they want to pay alot less for same functionality.


Greed has rarely ever been a good advice. And even less, if you don't understand the aspects behind the design of a certain product or part.


Cycleops said:


> It amazes me that companies practise this petty price cutting on parts especially when producing a premium product like a Brompton.


In this very forum you can hear a lot of people constantly moaning that the Brompton would be too expensive. Personally, I consider it to be expensive, but well worth the price. If you added higher priced compontents, the moaners would go Berzerk (who cares) but indeed it would influence either sales or margins or both and thus either way harm the company, potentially to a substantial amount.


Cycleops said:


> How much does it save them fitting a poor quality item instead of something worthy of the brand.


They don't. The items fitted are perfectly fit for purpose. They are just not shiny bling and - obviously - a compromise between price and featureset (but a good one with focus on fuctionality). A lot of those, that buy aftermarket parts effectively exchange the factory parts for parts of lower (and often very poor) quality because they are blinded by the bling. And as they don't understand what they are doing they even complain about Brompton and honestly believe that they have "upgraded" their bike. Effectively in a way as if you added chrome stickers to your car and pretended it was faster now (but those did at least not influence the technical quality and functionality to the negative).


Cycleops said:


> when customers find they're having to replace poor fittings.


As you, as far as I know, still have no own experience with the Brompton I would suggest to judge a little less...


CEBEP said:


> Well, actually I am an engineer and understand how Brompton Eazy wheels are designed


I don't know if the first part of this sentence is true but I do know that the second part is not true. And as it is not true it says something about the first part...


Schwinnsta said:


> I have read, I believe on this forum, that those cheap wheels that come stock on the frame and rack, are designed to fail so that if you're traveling and your bag is subject to being dropped, the wheels break before the rack or frame. So they are sacrificial.


Exactly. The story behind the Brompton roller wheels is here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/project-m6l-to-m6r-on-a-budget.282618/page-2#post-6639948
But what do I know... I'm not an engineer. 


CEBEP said:


> Optional Brompton Eazy wheels are designed with same functionality in mind


No, they are not.


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

the willy waving is out hand guys, please calm down. 
Brompton pedals are shite,that should reignite the discussion!
My MKS ones are fab,plus they are nice and shiny,and don't creak.


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> the willy waving is out hand guys


Not sure if willy waving using your hands would be so much pleasing.  Not to forget that the whole story startet with you, telling us that you have the biggest willy in the world. 


tinywheels said:


> Brompton pedals are shite


Why? I don't think so. Right hand pedal is one of the lightest pedals on the market and at the same an utterly cheap spare part. The cage sometimes breaks after a couple of years but replacing is cheap and easy. The lefthand folding pedal is one of the best folding pedals on the market (but obviously suffers from constraints of load distribution onto the main bearing, that are typical and unavoidable with any folding pedal). It could no doubt be better, but I don't know of any existing better one and the typical lifetime with me has been ~12-15 years of intensive use, most samples last even longer (but have been not used as intensively). Then the main bearing fails (which officially is not maintainable - however: @rogerzilla has published how to exchange the bearing in such a case).


tinywheels said:


> My MKS ones are fab,


That's good. I guess that's true for other people's MKS pedals as well. Mine i.e.. But I assume you are talking about removable pedals. Much easier to construct than folding pedals - even the MKS folding pedals are not _that_ good (and they build pedals as their main and exclusive business). On the Brompton, I do not favor removable pedals as I find them annoying in daily practice on the Brompton. I do have removable pedals (MKS as well as others) on a couple of bikes and only remove them if absolutely necessary. I do have some experience with other folding pedals than Brompton and they all quickly turned out not to be convincing.
As you did not point out what model of pedals you're talking about and why they are "fab" your statement seems to be rather willy waving than informational.


tinywheels said:


> plus they are nice and shiny,and don't creak.


My Brompton pedals do not and did never creak, so I don't get your point. Nice and shiny is either a matter of taste or a matter of maintenance.


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## u_i (16 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> But what do I know... I'm not an engineer.



I am neither, but I train future and current engineers, particularly in getting advanced degrees. Similarly to other fields, engineers come in all shapes and sizes, some are brilliant, many are good enough or better and some cannot hold a well paid job and may resort to garage-level aftermarket product manufacturing. Obviously, in spite efforts to regulate it, the automotive aftermarket is not much better than that for folding bikes such as including miracle oil additives that can hurt engines.


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> Not sure if willy waving using your hands would be so much pleasing.  Not to forget that the whole story startet with you, telling us that you have the biggest willy in the world.
> 
> Why? I don't think so. Right hand pedal is one of the lightest pedals on the market and at the same an utterly cheap spare part. The cage sometimes breaks after a couple of years but replacing is cheap and easy. The lefthand folding pedal is one of the best folding pedals on the market (but obviously suffers from constraints of load distribution onto the main bearing, that are typical and unavoidable with any folding pedal). It could no doubt be better, but I don't know of any existing better one and the typical lifetime with me has been ~12-15 years of intensive use, most samples last even longer (but have been not used as intensively). Then the main bearing fails (which officially is not maintainable - however: @rogerzilla has published how to exchange the bearing in such a case).
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, are you an engineer?


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> I'm sorry, are you an engineer?


If you read the thread you are posting in you would not need to ask. 



berlinonaut said:


> But what do I know... I'm not an engineer.


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> If you read the thread you are posting in you would not need to ask.



likewise, you would have spotted my MKS pedals further back. 

now leave me alone, I'm busy converting my suitcase into a bicycle. It's gonna fold real good and have great wheels that never puncture etc etc


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## CEBEP (16 Aug 2022)

We have lot’s of brilliant engineers here arguing that ball-bearing wheels are not the worthy upgrade to the friction type wheels and shouldn’t be used as standard in a Brompton. I guess I need to reassess my understanding of engineering all together. And not ever have an opinion of my own, as the only correct one is available here, with few users with insane egos who know everything.

I’d say thats the reason why there are fewer users here compared to folding bike threads on reddit and bikeforums.


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## CEBEP (16 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> likewise, you would have spotted my MKS pedals further back.
> 
> now leave me alone, I'm busy converting my suitcase into a bicycle. It's gonna fold real good and have great wheels that never puncture etc etc



You will probably soon be told to shut your mouth and never ever say anything bad about Brompton pedals because nothing Brompton does can be wrong. My wrong opinion is similar to yours, also wrong one, that MKS pedals are awesome.


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> I'm busy converting my suitcase into a bicycle.



Looking forward to your results. No need to reinvent the wheel.  






(taken from the Brompton book by David Henshaw)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlOyEZCd6lg


https://www.youtube.com/embed/m1UdayeFaLo





(https://www.made-in-china.com/showr...EInMxIgWU/China-Suitcase-Folding-Bicycle.html)





https://www.tuexperto.com/2009/08/1...cle-una-maleta-que-se-convierte-en-bicicleta/


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwtPpgWBsps


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> MKS pedals are awesome.


The silly thing ist that for one just because something is awsome something else can be awesome too at the same time. Plus what you consider to be awesome is often a question of personal taste and personal opinion.
To state that something is good, bad or awesome based on false beliefs or insufficient information is still a valid opinion, just not a very clever one.
Thinking you'd need to diss alternatives (or original parts) based on false arguments to justify your opinion that something you consider awesome is poor logic and irrational.
To pretend you'd be attacked for your opinion b/c you dislike something Brompton while in fact your opinion is questioned because of false information or false claims is a very poor straw man (including an ad hominem attack).

Be aware: You have not been, are not and will never be "attacked" by me (and possibly by no one else as well) because you say something against Brompton or one of their products or because of an opinion. But have to live with the fact that if you shoot around false claims (about anything) you may be corrected. I think you've experienced this already. Stop making false claims -> problem solved.


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## CEBEP (16 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> To state that something is good, bad or awesome based on false beliefs or insufficient information is still a valid opinion, just not a very clever one.



Who are you to judge which opinions are clever and which are not?



berlinonaut said:


> Thinking you'd need to diss alternatives (or original parts) based on false arguments to justify your opinion that something you consider awesome is poor logic and irrational.



Who are you to judge that my opinion is poor logic or irrational?



berlinonaut said:


> To pretend you'd be attacked for your opinion b/c you dislike something Brompton while in fact your opinion is questioned because of false information or false claims is a very poor straw man (including an ad hominem attack).



Who are you to judge if information I based my opinion on is false?



berlinonaut said:


> Be aware: You have not been, are not and will never be "attacked" by me (and possibly by no one else as well) because you say something against Brompton or one of their products or because of an opinion. But have to live with the fact that if you shoot around false claims (about anything) you may be corrected. I think you've experienced this already. Stop making false claims -> problem solved.


Just read your own posts. I am an active member on forums I’ve mentioned above and didn’t come across aggressive users like you questioning each and every opinion opposite to yours, asking if people tested all samples in a lab before they will have an opinion about anything. It’s not a friendly discussion by any means. I’d suggest you to suck up your ego and be a little more friendly to users whom you consider not matching your high standards.


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> The silly thing ist that for one just because something is awsome something else can be awesome too at the same time. Plus what you consider to be awesome is often a question of personal taste and personal opinion.
> To state that something is good, bad or awesome based on false beliefs or insufficient information is still a valid opinion, just not a very clever one.
> Thinking you'd need to diss alternatives (or original parts) based on false arguments to justify your opinion that something you consider awesome is poor logic and irrational.
> To pretend you'd be attacked for your opinion b/c you dislike something Brompton while in fact your opinion is questioned because of false information or false claims is a very poor straw man (including an ad hominem attack).
> ...



Thank you Dr Spock 
I claim my 5 pounds


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## T4tomo (16 Aug 2022)

I'd like to nominate this thread for the biggest and most pointless willy waving exercise on Cyclechat.


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## jowwy (16 Aug 2022)

T4tomo said:


> I'd like to nominate this thread for the biggest and most pointless willy waving exercise on Cyclechat.



are you ok?? you got lots of opinons on things today...


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## tinywheels (16 Aug 2022)

can anyone recommend a good engineering forum?
I've encountered an issue with the hinges on my foldy suitcase bike thingy.


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## berlinonaut (16 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> I am an active member on forums I’ve mentioned above and didn’t come across aggressive users like you questioning each and every opinion opposite to yours, asking if people tested all samples in a lab before they will have an opinion about anything.


That's an interesting point. Why are you member of those forums? I assume, as with most people including myself, one aspect is to learn, to ask questions, to find new solutions, to exchange experiences and to discuss different opinions.
The problem with every forum is, that many people inourdays cannot distinguish any more between opinion, belief, judgement, hypothesis, assumption, experience and fact - it is basically all the same thing. So often an opinion or assumption is stated as a fact. Which they aren't. If then someone questions that "fact" you feel attacked for your opinion - which is not the case.

Obviously opinions (and even more judgments) based on prejudices or wrong assumptions are less worth for learning than opinions or judgements based on extensive own experience and/or extensive knowledge of context. If this is all mixed up learning is barely possible, prejudices and cheap, uninformed judgements always win as they are easier to compose (and thus more frequent), more attractive (as they do need less thinking and often seem convincing on first look) and for all of those reasons get echoed more easily and more frequently, especially by newbies that have little own experience but want to actively participate and give advice. If this situation becomes the standard or dominant a forum may still be fun regarding social aspects and may still be interesting and inspring but has a very low level of competence, trustworthyness and technical value. This is basically what facebook is and what also many forums are (or have become). And often enough, this turns out to be a waste of time because of bad signal-to-noise ratio and being constantly sent in wrong and dubious directions. Often rather disinformation than information.

It is in my opinion thus in the deepest interest of a technical forum, while being integrative and friendly, to also maintain a reliable and trustworthy high standard of the technical content because this is a relevant aspect for the value of a forum, today in times of facebook, instagram etc. even more than 15 years ago. This is what distinguishes a good forum from social media and what is it's USP. Having in mind that social media is real time (no-one cares for facebook posts five years ago) while a forum is also often used as a reference and people take relevant (and in their eyes trustworthy) information from 10 year old postings and threads also makes aware of the differences and the relevance of a reliable and good standard of a forum. I've learned loads from forum archives and often enough found the hint that finally led to the correct information or simply the correct search terms on google or elsewhere. Sometimes after years of fruitless digging. But I've also often had the opposite and had to wade through tons of useless disinformation. Not desirable.

If within a forum any opinion is stated as a fact and has to be accepted as a fact (no matter on what - in extreme grotesque misinformation, prejudices etc. - it is based) there is not even discussion of different opinions possible any more and the forum is on a predictable route to irrelevantness. I've seen this often enough in forums over the last years.
If you respect, that you have an opinion and I may have a different one - but neither of those is per definition automatically "the truth" discussion mode is enabled about the reasoning and the background and learning starts. On both sides. And no matter how the discussion goes and what facts, ideas, experiences or other opinions show up: You do not need to actually change _your_ opinion. But sometimes you would be stupid not to. Or I. One needs to be open minded for that. If you consider new information as a threat for your personality, a different opinion than yours as as a threat as well and as an attack and any questioning of your reasoning that lead to that opinion as an attack and you assume that you are always right than this is a sure way into either trouble/conflict or irrelevance of the platform and we are back in middle age. People will toot out opinions and prejudices randomly, this may still be ok from a social perspective (and maybe very woke) but the technical value and relevance is close to zero as is the learning. More and more of the more competent people will leave and the speed to level zero increases. Nobody needs a forum like that.

Admittedly I am not always the friendliest person, but I only very rarely ride a personal attack and even if that happens this is the consequence of a longer story and escalation beforehand. If you feel personally attacked I am sorry for that but you should maybe think about why you feel that way and what set the triggers with you and what maybe with me. There are always two sides of a story.

I do consider this forum of value - this is why I do post here (and also, why I gave up on some others: because they lost their value to me). And I would like it to stay that way and to do my part to make this possible. In many cases this may be uncomfortable to others by questioning their opinions. Such is life. If you don't like that there's probably an ignore button somewhere in the settings section.


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## ExBrit (16 Aug 2022)

When I joined MENSA I saw discussions like this. I never renewed my membership.
I mean this in the most respectful way - some of you guys are geniuses


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## ExBrit (16 Aug 2022)

tinywheels said:


> can anyone recommend a good engineering forum?
> I've encountered an issue with the hinges on my foldy suitcase bike thingy.



If I put a big enough bag on my Brompton, can I go to the airport and claim it's a suitcase with 16" wheels?


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## CEBEP (16 Aug 2022)

@berlinonaut being polite to other people, specially those who know less than you is a lifestyle. Guess something your parents didn’t teach you about.


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## rogerzilla (16 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> @berlinonaut being polite to other people, specially those who know less than you is a lifestyle. Guess something your parents didn’t teach you about.


Different culture. More direct.


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## berlinonaut (17 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> @berlinonaut being polite to other people, specially those who know less than you is a lifestyle.


Biting the hand that feeds you and insulting the people that know more than you (and from whose knowledge you profited in the past) is also a lifestyle. Just not a very clever one.



CEBEP said:


> Guess something your parents didn’t teach you about.


You do request politeness and next* in the same sentence* insult my parents. Enough ist enough. I think your behaviour is toxic to this forum and you should be banned. Harshly and directly. The first time in more than 30 years on the net that I do such a statement.



rogerzilla said:


> Different culture. More direct.


Yup. Sometimes more direct is rude. Sometimes it is painful. Sometimes it is helpful. Sometimes it is the only appropriate way. Like in this posting.


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## tinywheels (17 Aug 2022)

is it safe to come out now?


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## CEBEP (17 Aug 2022)

@berlinonaut I think you overestimate your importance to me calling yourself the hand that feeds. Believe it or not you’re not the only one in this world who can assist with technical questions regarding folding bikes. I didn’t insult you or your parents. Just being direct, the way you like it. It’s not pleasant, but I think it’s important for you to know, no matter how many years you’re on this forum.

Toxic. Thank you, exactly the word I was looking for to describe the environment you created for me on this forum. I already requested yesterday forum mods to delete my account, so don’t bother.


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## berlinonaut (17 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> @berlinonaut I think you overestimate your importance to me calling yourself the hand that feeds. Believe it or not you’re not the only one in this world who can assist with technical questions regarding folding bikes.


And I am not the only one you insulted...



CEBEP said:


> I didn’t insult you or your parents.


If this


CEBEP said:


> @berlinonaut being polite to other people, specially those who know less than you is a lifestyle. Guess something your parents didn’t teach you about.


was no insult in your opinion but your normal way of communication I wonder even more what on earth you complain about with others.



CEBEP said:


> Toxic. Thank you, exactly the word I was looking for to describe the environment you created for me on this forum. I already requested yesterday forum mods to delete my account, so don’t bother.



So you are trying once more playing the victim role, being unwilling or unable to reflect about and to take responsibility for your actions and behaviour but instead accusing me being responsible for it. Even on your way out you still try your toxic messaging and ad hominem attacking, trying to cause as much damage as possible. For me and for the forum. Wont work. It seems indeed better that you leave.


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## CEBEP (17 Aug 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> And I am not the only one you insulted...


You were the only one crying and asking to ban me. Go have a life already.


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## berlinonaut (17 Aug 2022)

CEBEP said:


> You were the only one crying and asking to ban me. Go have a life already.



Jesus. You said you decided already yesterday to leave this forum. Why on earth are you still posting then?
The _only_ person constantly whining was you, not me... While at the same time insiting on your "right" to post wrong facts uncorrected (because you are an engineer), reading things that were not written, complaining and riding ad-hominem attacks in a row and thinking he would be the center of the world and everything that is written in the forum here would directly and exclusively be an attack to him. You vastly overestimate your relevance in this forum.
After your ad-hominem attack yesterday I stated:


berlinonaut said:


> I think your behaviour is toxic to this forum and you should be banned.


I did _neither_ ask to ban you _nor_ notify a mod. This is, what one calls an "Opinion". Possibly your constant mental constructions are part of the mental problems that you seem to suffer from.

Oh, and thanks: I do have a life. What about you?


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## berlinonaut (18 Aug 2022)

The account of @CEBEP has changed to "Guest", I guess this means constructive discussion can now finally commence.


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## tinywheels (18 Aug 2022)

I am at a loss to understand this bizarre affair. 
It is somewhat sad that it came to this. 
If a bit of idle banter provokes such a reaction, then perhaps some inward reflection may be useful. 
On the other hand, I cannot say it wasn't amusing on some level. 
If anyone has been offended by something I've said,suck it up buttercup. Put on your big boy pants and learn to deal with differing opinions.


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## TheDoctor (18 Aug 2022)

Can we move on from the spat please?
Thanks


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## yoho oy (19 Aug 2022)

Weird people. You want Brompton to be a 1000 things. I don't see any problem with a Brompton as it is. Easier to buy spare parts when bike model is almost the same for number of years. In worst case scenario there are aftermarket mods. Sure, they are not cheap, but who said that Brompton has to be cheap. A lot of things that people request for add weight or interfere with a fold. The only negative what I see for rim brakes is that from time to time it will require change of a rim or a wheel. The biggest issue with that is price- rims are not that cheap. I took one very steep and long hill for a few times and could see how it could become significant expenditure. Assuming cheapest route- 2 rims £28x2 (reuse of spokes, and all the hardware, DIY), so it is minimum £56. But then - disk break pads are not that cheap either, and rim break pads are a bargain.


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## yoho oy (19 Aug 2022)

There is a chap who bought Brompton clone (Litepro) a while ago. He has updates on his channel.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CFhOzGkLlk


Back in a day I was looking into Brompton alternatives, but the price point I was looking at was £400+. Some of the clones were at that price delivered. His purchase turned out more than £900 while real 6 speed Brompton at that time was £1415 or a bit cheaper (£1395 I think) if not from Brompton. £900+ for a subpar product is hardly a bargain. I am happy with real Brompton.


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## berlinonaut (19 Aug 2022)

regarding brake power: With the rim brakes (2008+ version) I only once suffered from unsufficient braking and that was when going a very (!) steep downhill at speed, fully loaded and heavy T-bag on the front and with a 30+kg trailer attached. In this situation it was not possible to come to a standstill adequately. Once, in roughly oneandahalf decades of almost daily use of Bromptons.
No doubt disc brakes are fine and do offer more break power - but it is in everyday use just not necessary on a Brompton. Possibly the cry for disc brakes is once more the result from old messaging: Before the MK3 was invented in 2000 the Brompton brakes were truly terrible. Starting from 2000 this enhanced massively. In 2000 the front caliper was changed to DualPivot, the rear followed in late 2007. Next the brake cables changed to Jagwire and finally the levers changed to todays shape in 2013 (which in itself was a massive improvement). I do consider the brakes absolutely sufficient, even more if you use something like Koolstop salmon or SiwssStop Blue brake pads. When tuning levers, cables and pads even pre-2000 Bromptons learn how to break properly with their wonky calipers (including the red entry-level C-model that used the old-style calipers until end of production in 2007).
Bikes in Europe have to fulfill various ISO-norms and one of them is about the brake power. The Brompton complies to these norms, thus one can assume that the level of brake power is officially considered sufficient. On the other hand: Over the years Brompton have I think lowered the max weight of rider and luggage by something like 20kg if I remember correctly. This may have had to do with those norms for breaking.

Regarding disk brakes: If something is not properly adjusted with them they can drive you nuts. Especially with things like squeezing in the wet.

Rim wear with rim brakes on the other hand is there, but often vastly overestimated. A couple of years ago I asked around a couple of long term Brompton riders and it turned out that most of them had to change them around the 20k km mark. Some had far higher values, some way lower ones. It obviously depends a lot from riding style, riding conditions and rider weight. Also, Brompton have changed the rim models a couple of times over the years. Still I'd say a min of 10k km is a pretty safe bet for most riders. Still there are some who have to change earlier, but anything in the world can be broken when treated improperly.


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## yoho oy (19 Aug 2022)

Since you know a thing or two about different brake pads for Brompton, did you had experience with Halt Gooey, Fibrax? What advantages or disadvantages do they offer?
As from my experience 2021 Brompton rim brakes are very powerful. Most of the times I tend to not to squeeze the levers all the way or use different power on front and rear. I am not sure what pads were standard on 2021 nonelectric models.


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## berlinonaut (19 Aug 2022)

The electric uses Swisstop Blue, the non-electric $something Fibrax.  Typically, the softer the pads are the better they break but also the quicker they wear. Personally, if the current brake power is sufficient for your needs, I wouldn't bother to change anything. When the pads are worn and it's time for a change just avoid cheap no-name pads and if you are willing to spend an extra quid going for Koolstop salmon or Swissstop Blue doesn't hurt and does not really harm from a price perspective.
As if I remember correctly you do have an A-Line there's also potential in the levers - the A line is I think still equipped with the older style pre-2013 levers.


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## yoho oy (19 Aug 2022)

No, my bike model is M6L. I am pretty happy with my brakes. So basically I would like to get the same when the time for replacement comes. I don't feel the need for MORE braking power. I am pretty heavy, don't drive when it rains or on ice/snow so current brakes are really fine. Also I wouldn't mind changing brake pads more often, and preserve rims for longer.


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## u_i (19 Aug 2022)

Are Swiss Stop pads indeed good? I am aware of their fame, but the couple times I put their pads on a full size bike, their performance was very clearly inferior to KoolStop salmon, so I gave up on using up. However, there may be variation between different compounds used, just like for KoolStop. I think my Swiss Stop were dark green (GHP2 in my record).


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## berlinonaut (19 Aug 2022)

Don't have personal experience with them yet and happy with Coolstop salmons (or generic black ones) as well for the time being. But I heard a lot of positive from other users regarding the blue ones. https://www.swissstop.com/tech/compounds/bxp/
Also, they seem not to have any green (any more?) in their lineup of brake pads: https://www.swissstop.com/brakepads/rimbrakes/
I remember a test of brakepads on the Brompton from someone in a relative scientific way a couple of years ago. Possibly from Italy. But I do neither remember where I found it back then nor what exactly the outcomes were.  But I think they had SwissStop green included in their test lineup.


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## Kell (31 Aug 2022)

I've used Swissstop sine my OEM pads wore out. The OEM ones didn't fill me with confidence with their performance and wore out very quickly (in around 6 months IIRC) - the worst possible combo.

So, back in early 2016, I made the switch as the Swissstop were highly recommended at that time. I think I'm using blue (I wouldn't swear to it without checking) - it was whatever was recommended for wet performance.

While Berlinonaut has never suffered brake problems, I think the Brompton is truly dreadful in the wet. Perhaps it's the small wheel shedding less water by the time the rim comes back up to the pads. Maybe it's my weight. Maybe it's a combo of the two. I'm not sure, but I know I'm very wary of it now as I got caught out once and almost ran into the back of a car as my brakes were non-existent in a sudden downpour.

One thing I do remember is that last time I ordered, I ended up with loads. As they only show two pads in the images, I thought I'd only get two. But each set is 4 pads. I think I ordered two sets to fit right away and another set to keep in the drawer.

So I ended up with 12.


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## Kell (31 Aug 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> Different culture. More direct.



TBH - this ^^^^

I know I've found some of Berlinonaut's posts over the years a little ...brusque. 

But then I put it down to a) Being German and b) making the effort to reply in a second language. 

As far as I'm concerned, hats off for even bothering. And please continue to do so.


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## tinywheels (31 Aug 2022)

reflecting on this thread,I wish we could all agree we have different opinions. 
I feel all concerned have valid points, so let's move on. 
We are all part of the same cycling family. 
Now who said brompton brakes are crap in the wet?


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## rogerzilla (1 Sep 2022)

Kell said:


> TBH - this ^^^^
> 
> I know I've found some of Berlinonaut's posts over the years a little ...brusque.
> 
> ...


We British have a very roundabout way of saying things. A British person would ask, "Could you please give me the salt?". Most other Europeans would say, "Please give me the salt." Americans would probably ask, "Can I get the salt?" which makes no sense at all but has been popularised by Friends!


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## Kell (1 Sep 2022)

I was in Cuba recently and was chatting with our Air B&B host.

When you say thank you to a Spanish speaker, they will normally reply "de nada" (it's nothing). Which to my British ears is actually fairly dismissive when you think about it.

Whereas he was asking if it's rude to say "You're welcome" as he felt it was. I couldn't get my head around why. To me, "you're welcome" makes more sense. The customer acknowledges that a service has been provided, the server acknowledges the thank you. In Spanish I think the server's response is a bit throwaway. Almost like, I was doing it anyway, I wasn't doing it specifically for you.


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## ExBrit (1 Sep 2022)

rogerzilla said:


> We British have a very roundabout way of saying things. A British person would ask, "Could you please give me the salt?". Most other Europeans would say, "Please give me the salt." Americans would probably ask, "Can I get the salt?" which makes no sense at all but has been popularised by Friends!



As a Brit living in California since 1984 I agree. It still riles me to hear someone ordering in a restaurant with "I want a BLT". When I order with "May I have a BLT?" it makes the waitress smile, but I think they like it.

In English, like most languages, there are 20 ways to say the same thing each with it's own implications of deference, social class, arrogance, etc. It's impressive that Berlinonaut can make himself understood. I wouldn't dream of trying to post on a German language group, even though I speak a little. I wonder how many people I accidently offended while I lived in Hamburg.

OK, OK singing "Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles" was unforgivable. But I was drunk.


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## mitchibob (5 Sep 2022)

tinywheels said:


> Now who said brompton brakes are crap in the wet?


I didn't say it, but was thinking it recently, but it was really down to just needing new rims and pads. My experience of Brompton brakes has been a lot better than any of the bikes I had in my youth. The best thing is to not try a bike with disc brakes, and you'll never miss them ;-)

Wonder why didn't sturmey archer also create a drum brake option hub, just for a little extra weight? ;-)


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## tinywheels (5 Sep 2022)

Discs,are of interest to me, but I can survive with the std brakes for now.Its only whilst speeding downhill I wish for better. 
Maybe by 2030 Brompton will have caught up
I'll leave it at that,in case I wake a certain teutonic cyclst


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## ExBrit (6 Sep 2022)

I have never felt my rim brakes were a problem. I'm 100kg and if they can stop me they can stop anyone. I know how they work, I can adjust them, I can bodge them if a spoke breaks. I don't know enough about disc brakes to adjust them mid ride and I certainly can't bodge them if I crash and damage the rotor. I've always felt disc brakes are a solution in search of a problem.

I'm militant old-school, I suspect.

Does anyone here remember physics classes in high-school? (Anyone remember high-school at all?)
Question: Do small wheels provide an advantage/disadvantage/no effect on rim braking effectiveness?


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## u_i (6 Sep 2022)

ExBrit said:


> Does anyone here remember physics classes in high-school? (Anyone remember high-school at all?)
> Question: Do small wheels provide an advantage/disadvantage/no effect on rim braking effectiveness?



Smaller rims heat up more as any location on the rim is more often operated on by the brake.


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## berlinonaut (7 Sep 2022)

mitchibob said:


> Wonder why didn't sturmey archer also create a drum brake option hub, just for a little extra weight? ;-)


In the olden times there was a 3rd party option for a S/A drum brake equipped front wheel on the Brompton. Some did and stated they liked it.


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## mitchibob (8 Sep 2022)

berlinonaut said:


> In the olden times there was a 3rd party option for a S/A drum brake equipped front wheel on the Brompton. Some did and stated they liked it.



Wow. I mean, pre-disc brakes, they were slightly more reliable option in the wet on the back of a tandem, although, was still worth just removing altogether and just relying on the cantilever rim brakes, partly to lose the weight, and partly to remove the issue of resetting them if having to quickly repair rear puncture. Can't imagine having them on the front, although, at least on steep gradient on brommie, it'd help keep the front wheel down.


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## berlinonaut (8 Sep 2022)

mitchibob said:


> Can't imagine having them on the front,



Here you go: https://www.atob.org.uk/brompton-hub-brake/


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## T4tomo (13 Sep 2022)

ExBrit said:


> Question: Do small wheels provide an advantage/disadvantage/no effect on rim braking effectiveness?



Disadvantage - the further from the hub centre the rim is the less force is needed to stop the wheel. 

this is also why disc brakes have to be quite powerful as they are only acting on a 140/160/180mm rotor.


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