# Chipped stone hits car window - who is liable??



## regthellama (20 Mar 2014)

Hello and sorry if this in the wrong section, but...
I was cycling through a private car park with a public right of way when a stone pinged from my tyre and hit a car window, completely smashing it. I wasn't going quickly and was obviously not being negligent. Who is liable for this though? Would the owner's insurance pay up without charging excess?
Thanks for your help.


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## ColinJ (20 Mar 2014)

I have had a few near misses after causing stones to fly off and hit cars and asked myself the same question. I think that it should be treated like any other accident where nobody was to blame.


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## Cameronmu917772 (20 Mar 2014)

Call Gavin for auto glass herd he is pretty good 
It will be there insurance I'm sure. A lot of policy's come with wind screen cover bees days

*these days lol


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## Nigel-YZ1 (21 Mar 2014)

I suppose it's the same as a car driving down a road having it's screen smashed by another passing car.
The owners insurance pays up (if they have windscreen cover) and they pay an excess. It's an occupational hazard.


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## Profpointy (21 Mar 2014)

The long answer is that to claim against someone else for tort, you have to establish all 3 things

1) duty of care
yes - cyclist does have duty of care to people around not to damage them or their stuff.

2) failure or negligence in that duty - hooning around doing doughnuts kicking up stones - probably
Pootling around sensibly but catching a chipping - probably not - so "no blame, no claim"

if there were "strict liabilty" which is established by statute for certain inherently dangerous things, then burden of proving negligence is removed - but that wouldn't apply here - but would be "a good thing" if it applied to cars - sadly doesn't

3) proximity - meaning proving the harm followed fairly directly - so broken window - yes


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## Globalti (21 Mar 2014)

Invite the driver to sue you then get on with your life. They won't.


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## uclown2002 (21 Mar 2014)

Cameronmu917772 said:


> Call Gavin for auto glass herd he is pretty good
> It will be there insurance I'm sure. A lot of policy's come with wind screen cover bees days
> 
> **these days lol*



Why not edit out the other errors while you're at it?


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## welsh dragon (21 Mar 2014)

It's no one's fault. No one can be blamed. If the car owner has windscreen cover then his insurance company will pay for the damage. If he doesnt, he will have to claim off his insurance company. It may ne seen as a fault claim. Check with his insurance company


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## raleighnut (21 Mar 2014)

I was quite shocked when my bike did it, went with a hell of a ping straight into a car windscreen. With this one though would I be right in thinking it was a side window as it shattered cos most windscreens are laminated nowadays so would just crack whereas side windows are merely toughened so shatter. Would then windscreen insurance cover it.


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## vickster (21 Mar 2014)

British cycling member? You have third party cover. You could call them for advice


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## Cycleops (21 Mar 2014)

Most drivers will have windscreen insurance included with their policy so not an issue for most.


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## Banjo (21 Mar 2014)

This isnt your fault. You did nothing wrong. If anything the surface of the path is to blame.
I have to admire your honesty, I think I may have kept pedalling.


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## Brandane (21 Mar 2014)

Over the years I've had about 4 windscreens smashed (2 were within a few weeks of each other) by stones thrown up by other vehicles. Repairs were down to me, end of story. 

The driver of the vehicle that threw the stone up can hardly be blamed, and neither can the roads authority. It's just one of those things that happens. 

Most fully comprehensive insurance policies will cover the costs anyway, apart from an excess of about £80 in my case.


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> I wasn't going quickly and was obviously not being negligent.


 
That is the crux of it, the car owner would have to prove that you were negligent in your manner of riding to have a claim against you.

You could not reasonably have known that a particular little stone would be at the very position which, when struck by one of your tyres at a given angle, would be propelled towards the window.

Don't beat yourelf up about this, let the driver's insurance handle it. If anything, you've done the driver enough of a favour by corroborating his claim to his insurers as genuine. They may not have taken his word for it and been reluctant to pay.

You're clearly an honest person with a conscience but you have no legal obligation to pay for this damage, accidents do happen.

GC


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## welsh dragon (21 Mar 2014)

What would the driver do if he was driving along the road and a stone from another vehicle hit his window? Its the same thing.


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## Dan B (21 Mar 2014)

raleighnut said:


> With this one though would I be right in thinking it was a side window as it shattered cos most windscreens are laminated nowadays so would just crack whereas side windows are merely toughened so shatter. Would then windscreen insurance cover it.


Windscreen insurance covered it when our side window was broken a couple of years ago, although the insco (Admiral) were utterly utterly incompetent at sorting out the claim and had we left it up to them we'd have had to put up with crash wrap for the three months it took them to find a replacement.


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## raleighnut (21 Mar 2014)

Dan B said:


> Windscreen insurance covered it when our side window was broken a couple of years ago, although the insco (Admiral) were utterly utterly incompetent at sorting out the claim and had we left it up to them we'd have had to put up with crash wrap for the three months it took them to find a replacement.


Just wasn't sure as I've never owned a car, working as a Saturday lad and then as an apprentice then a technician at a SAAB main dealer cured me of that fetish (That costs HOW much)
2 wheels good 4 wheels bad 6 or more dangerous


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2988316, member: 45"]Yeah right. And then the car stereo fell into your pannier.[/QUOTE]

It was only a tape deck so I didn't bother with it 

I was just thinking of joining British Cycling, or getting insurance... Oh well, sod's law!

At the moment I just had a quote for a repair at £95, so I don't really mind paying half of that if it comes to it.


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## vickster (21 Mar 2014)

You could contact BC and see if the cover can be applied retrospectively


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> At the moment I just had a quote for a repair at £95, so I don't really mind paying half of that if it comes to it.


 
Are you dealing directly with the owner or his insurer?

GC


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

The owner currently. I've only spoken to them once and they hadn't even spoken to their insurers at that point, so I wasn't overly impressed. They were complaining because their excess is £200 and I resisted the urge to point out that that wasn't my fault!


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## Brandane (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> At the moment I just had a quote for a repair at £95, so I don't really mind paying half of that if it comes to it.


Why are YOU bothering with quotes and the like? It was the car owners misfortune that his window was hit by a stone ACCIDENTALLY kicked up by your bike tyre. It was nobodys fault, so it is down to the car owner to get it fixed, and if there are costs involved to him; well, he needs to change his insurance company.


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

Well the main reason for looking for a quote was if they came back to me and got difficult about it - at least this way I have more ammunition.


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## John Shingler (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> a stone pinged from my tyre and hit a car window, completely smashing it.



this is very odd


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

Well I haven't actually said that I'd pay. I think they expected me to want to, but if I hear from them again I will say that I was only hoping to help them out with their insurance claim.


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## John Shingler (21 Mar 2014)

John Shingler said:


> this is very odd



sorry I was assuming the car was stationary ...I guess it was moving of course. Was the car park thing that threw me


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

Nope, the car was very much parked - luckily really as if there had been anyone driving they would have ended up with a stone hitting them pretty forcefully in the face. The stone hit the driver's window at a roughly 90° angle and went straight through. Being safety glass the whole window just shattered completely, but having looked up similar incidents on the internet it's definitely not unheard of.


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## fossyant (21 Mar 2014)

Blame the stone, it's his fault for laying about on the road.


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## fossyant (21 Mar 2014)

I've been hit on the side of the nose by a stone flipped up by a car. Hurt lots, lots of blood. Had to stop and ask a homeowner to phone an ambulance as I was about 18 miles from home in the middle of no-where, and there was a little too much blood pumping out to carry on cycling home. Still have the scar !


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## Phaeton (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> I was cycling through a private car park with a public right of way when a stone pinged from my tyre and hit a car window, completely smashing it..





John Shingler said:


> this is very odd


No it's not, in fact it's an old joyrider/radio snatcher trick, if they walk around with a hammer in their pocket they can be pulled by Policeman Badger for 'going equipped' (I think the charge is) but if they have a pocket full of small pebbles they can't. The force to break the window is not particularly great & simply flicking a pebble will cause the side windows to shatter. The other favourite tool is an automatic centre punch if you are familiar with them again it takes a little more explanation why you would have one in your pocket if you get pulled.

Alan...
p.s. This is all 3rd party knowledge I have never broken into a car without the owners permission.


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## Brandane (21 Mar 2014)

Phaeton said:


> No it's not, in fact it's an old joyrider/radio snatcher trick, if they walk around with a hammer in their pocket they can be pulled by Policeman Badger for 'going equipped' (I think the charge is) but if they have a pocket full of small pebbles they can't. The force to break the window is not particularly great & simply flicking a pebble will cause the side windows to shatter. The other favourite tool is an automatic centre punch if you are familiar with them again it takes a little more explanation why you would have one in your pocket if you get pulled.
> 
> Alan...
> p.s. This is all 3rd party knowledge I have never broken into a car without the owners permission.


The sharp end of a spark plug is another useful tool.


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2014)

Phaeton said:


> No it's not, in fact it's an old joyrider/radio snatcher trick, if they walk around with a hammer in their pocket they can be pulled by Policeman Badger for 'going equipped' (I think the charge is) but if they have a pocket full of small pebbles they can't. The force to break the window is not particularly great & simply flicking a pebble will cause the side windows to shatter.


 
A favoured option round these parts was (is) fragments of ceramic insulation from spark plugs.

GC


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## Nigel-YZ1 (21 Mar 2014)

Just echoing what User has said. I'd never expect another road user to contribute in these circumstances.
I suppose that's why insurance policies keep windscreen cover separate and without loss of NCB. It's act of god territory.


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## John Shingler (21 Mar 2014)

I've had a few cracked windscreens driving at speed on duel carriageways, but it's only ever cracked it and certainly hasn't come through. We are talking about the windscreen aren't we?

P.S. yes very familiar with auto centre punch and yes I've heard of them used to break into cars but on the side window to then lean in and open the door, not for breaking the front wind screen.


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## Phaeton (21 Mar 2014)

John Shingler said:


> I've had a few cracked windscreens driving at speed on duel carriageways, but it's only ever cracked it and certainly hasn't come through. We are talking about the windscreen aren't we?


OP never mentioned windscreen & clarified later that it was a side window

Alan...


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## John Shingler (21 Mar 2014)

well that's a relief ...carry on


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## vickster (21 Mar 2014)

Normally the windscreen excess is lower than the main excess, £200 sounds high, around £80 more normal?


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## buggi (21 Mar 2014)

i don't think you would even be liable if you were driving your car coz it happened on a private car park. I remember this happened to my brother when he had a collision years ago, he couldn't claim off the other driver.

what makes you think it came from your wheel? I just cant see that riding at a normal speed would do this, would the stone even get the required lift? seriously, are you sure someone didn't try to shoot you with a pellet gun, and hit the car instead, and you just presumed your bike kicked up a stone?


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## buggi (21 Mar 2014)

John Shingler said:


> sorry I was assuming the car was stationary ...I guess it was moving of course. Was the car park thing that threw me


if the car was moving, don't pay. If you get a stone chip in your windscreen this is an indication you are driving too close to the vehicle in front. He shouldn't have been up your arse and this sounds suspect anyway. How do you know his windscreen wasn't already damaged and he's took the opportunity to blame you. Stone chip from a push bike... Really?

edit: side window? Really?? How far away from the car was you? Next to it and a stone flew up at that angle? Car windows do not break that easily. I know, i once took a crow bar to one!


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2014)

buggi said:


> if the car was moving, don't pay. If you get a stone chip in your windscreen this is an indication you are driving too close to the vehicle in front. He shouldn't have been up your arse and this sounds suspect anyway. How do you know his windscreen wasn't already damaged and he's took the opportunity to blame you. Stone chip from a push bike... Really?
> 
> edit: side window? Really?? How far away from the car was you? Next to it and a stone flew up at that angle? Car windows do not break that easily. I know, i once took a crow bar to one!


 
I believe the car was parked and unattended, some 4 metres away.

GC


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## buggi (21 Mar 2014)

its up to you. If it makes you feel better and you can afford it, get your own quote and put half the cost, you are under no obligation to pay and they should be thankful. Don't get ripped off just coz you feel bad.


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## buggi (21 Mar 2014)

still think you were  at


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## jarlrmai (21 Mar 2014)

Maybe it was a ceramic chip.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhlmKHbPFhU


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## ianrauk (21 Mar 2014)

John Shingler said:


> this is very odd




No it's not. I have done the same. Cycling at speed past a car, stone pinged up and smashed side window.


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## regthellama (21 Mar 2014)

I was only doing about 10mph because a lady with her toddler were ambling across the road in front. I heard a pop and definitely felt the stone come out from under my tyre. A split second later the window crumpled! Anyway, I haven't heard anything from them today, so maybe now that they've had the sense to phone their insurers they'll know the deal.


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## Rouge79 (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> I was only doing about 10mph because a lady with her toddler were ambling across the road in front. I heard a pop and definitely felt the stone come out from under my tyre. A split second later the window crumpled! Anyway, I haven't heard anything from them today, so maybe now that they've had the sense to phone their insurers they'll know the deal.



It's nice that you were concerned but as others have said sod all to do with you and TBH you should have just carried on where you were cycling to. You could be giving yourself a whole load of grief by getting involved and giving personal details that you not needed to do.

IF you had crashed your bike into the car then thats a different story but as no contact was made its an "act of dog"


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## jarlrmai (21 Mar 2014)

When you are filtering and it hits a boy racer's door panel, pretend to have just been shot.


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## Rouge79 (21 Mar 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> When you are filtering and it hit's a boy racer's door panel, pretend to have just been shot.



LOL don't thats cruel 

A few times I've been overtaking a car both at slow filtering and fast overtaking and have heard that loud crack as a stone from my wheel has hit their side panel. Kept eyes straight ahead and pretended it didn't happen


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## User16625 (21 Mar 2014)

regthellama said:


> Hello and sorry if this in the wrong section, but...
> I was cycling through a private car park with a public right of way when a stone pinged from my tyre and hit a car window, completely smashing it. I was going quickly and was obviously being negligent. Who is liable for this though? Would the owner's insurance pay up without charging excess?
> Thanks for your help.



In my opinion if the stone was part of debris from road damage, potholes etc then the authority responsible for maintaining the surface should be liable. Otherwise its a blameless accident.


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## glasgowcyclist (21 Mar 2014)

jarlrmai said:


> Maybe it was a ceramic chip


 
TMN to me, I think...

GC


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## jarlrmai (21 Mar 2014)

glasgowcyclist said:


> TMN to me, I think...
> 
> GC


Translation error..


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## John Shingler (21 Mar 2014)

ianrauk said:


> No it's not. I have done the same. Cycling at speed past a car, stone pinged up and smashed side window.


yeah no we've been there ...i thought it was the windscreen that would have been odd.


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## upandover (21 Mar 2014)

My insurance had no excess on a broken window, and no consequences, they just did it. Ask him to call them.


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## wiggydiggy (21 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2988172, member: 30090"]God[/QUOTE]

Who?


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## jarlrmai (21 Mar 2014)

He's the dude who smashed your car window.


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## Accy cyclist (22 Mar 2014)

What about when a stone flies off like a bullet from your 120 psi road tyres and cracks against a car door leaving a paint chip. I cringe when i hear it but it's quite impressive isn't it?!


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## raleighnut (22 Mar 2014)

Accy cyclist said:


> What about when a stone flies off like a bullet from your 120 psi road tyres and cracks against a car door leaving a paint chip. I cringe when i hear it but it's quite impressive isn't it?!


My earlier post happened on my sprint bike with conti grand prix supersonics at 140 and its pinged quite a few since. Does'nt seem to happen with any of my other bikes which have more normal tyres though.


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## wiggydiggy (23 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2990860, member: 30090"]An Incident like the one in the OP could be classed as an act of God.[/QUOTE]

Who is this god you speak of?


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## wiggydiggy (23 Mar 2014)

[QUOTE 2991886, member: 30090"]Dont try and be funny.[/QUOTE]

Avoiding the question?


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## Crankarm (23 Mar 2014)

Can the driver prove that what ever hit the glass of his car causing it to shatter was 1) a stone and 2) it was done by your bike? If not forget it and let him sue. Do not admit or make any offer to pay as he can claim off his insurance for replacement glass.


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## thelawnet (20 Oct 2015)

wiggydiggy said:


> Who is this god you speak of?


Eric


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## Bianchi boy (20 Oct 2015)

regthellama said:


> Hello and sorry if this in the wrong section, but...
> I was cycling through a private car park with a public right of way when a stone pinged from my tyre and hit a car window, completely smashing it. I wasn't going quickly and was obviously not being negligent. Who is liable for this though? Would the owner's insurance pay up without charging excess?
> Thanks for your help.


I hav'ent bothered to read all of the thread, But is'nt it the local council, who are to blame, I'm sure they are duty bound to ensure all carriageway s are kept clear


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## Drago (20 Oct 2015)

Holy thread resurrection Batman!


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## screenman (20 Oct 2015)

I would call screenman.


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## Drago (20 Oct 2015)

@screenmam Look at this!


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## User16625 (20 Oct 2015)

thelawnet said:


> Eric



Are all your gods called Eric? (Jesus had a brother called Achmed but he was terminated before birth)


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## Tin Pot (20 Oct 2015)

Bianchi boy said:


> I hav'ent bothered to read all of the thread, But is'nt it the local council, who are to blame, I'm sure they are duty bound to ensure all carriageway s are kept clear



Thank you and let it be a lesson to all of us _there is always someone to blame_.


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