# SWYTCH e-assist conversion pack -any thoughts?



## Archie_tect (24 Apr 2020)

Just been sent this link- anyone heard of Swytch, haven\'t checked out the site yet but it sounds too good to be true...

https://www.swytchbike.com/learn-more/


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## Smudge (24 Apr 2020)

I thought this system had been around for ages. Hub motor, not very high torque and a small battery, so not much range unless you use low assistance setting.
Probably better suited for a Brompton than a full size bike.


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## Beebo (25 Apr 2020)

There’s a lady at the local allotment who has had similar for a few years. I’ve often wonder whether there is any drawback to having the power through the front wheel and not the rear?


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## Smudge (25 Apr 2020)

Beebo said:


> There’s a lady at the local allotment who has had similar for a few years. I’ve often wonder whether there is any drawback to having the power through the front wheel and not the rear?



I've never found a front wheel hub motor a problem, i've had two ebikes with it. It balances the weight better if you have a rack battery. It also effectively gives you two wheel drive.


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## Pale Rider (25 Apr 2020)

The Swytch kit looks best for a Brompton.

I'm not giving them my email address to find out the early bird price, but when prices were on their website, it was around £800.

This makes it a useful two hundred quid or so cheaper than the main Nano competitor.


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## beastie (29 Apr 2020)

I've ordered one, through crowd funding, at a price of $350 dollars IIRC. Delivery has been delayed due to the coved crisis. Should arrive within the next month. I will report back when it does. I figure for that price it was worth a trial..Edit $399 so about £330.


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## jann71 (4 Dec 2020)

beastie said:


> I've ordered one, through crowd funding, at a price of $350 dollars IIRC. Delivery has been delayed due to the coved crisis. Should arrive within the next month. I will report back when it does. I figure for that price it was worth a trial..Edit $399 so about £330.


Have you received it?
Just seen there is a newer model launching?


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Dec 2020)

beastie said:


> I've ordered one, through crowd funding, at a price of $350 dollars IIRC. Delivery has been delayed due to the coved crisis. Should arrive within the next month. I will report back when it does. I figure for that price it was worth a trial..Edit $399 so about £330.



Don’t forget import duty and VAT on top of that.


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## steveindenmark (5 Dec 2020)

It looks like a really good product. But having to wait nearly a year to receive it, is ridiculous


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## Drago (6 Dec 2020)

No mention of battery capacity anywhere on their website. I suspect tiny judging by the claimed battery weight.

Also ebike batteries are _heavy_. The last think you want mounted outside of the steering axis. Even the puny batteries theyre providing aren't best placed where they're proposing - vey neat and convenient, but not so good for feel or safety, particularly for weaker or less experienced pilots.


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## Tenkaykev (6 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> No mention of battery capacity anywhere on their website. I suspect tiny judging by the claimed battery weight.
> 
> Also ebike batteries are _heavy_. The last think you want mounted outside of the steering axis. Even the puny batteries theyre providing aren't best placed where they're proposing - vey neat and convenient, but not so good for feel or safety, particularly for weaker or less experienced pilots.



I was curious too so I had a dig around and found this:


*Battery Capacity**PRO Power Pack*
36V 7Ah = 250Wh
Expected range 30miles/50km at 125W average power output.
*ECO Power Pack*
36V 5Ah = 180Wh
Expected range 20miles/35km at 125W average power output.


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## Drago (6 Dec 2020)

Prerty puny.


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## Archie_tect (6 Dec 2020)

@beastie, how is it [if it's arrived yet]? 

How much was it after paying tax and duties...


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## wajc (7 Dec 2020)

I saw this recently

https://easifitebikekit.co.uk/

Slightly bigger battery at 36V 5.8Ah than the Swytch Eco Power Pack and fits on the downtube in it's own bottle type cage.
Price is clearly stated as £495 which you don't see on the Swytch website.
No signing up to be on a waiting list and delivery of items in stock is 2 days and approx 3 weeks otherwise.
They also seem to have quite a number of good reviews.
Based in Eastbourne in the UK

If I was looking for an ebike conversion kit I'd be looking at these people before Swytch.


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## Drago (9 Dec 2020)

The Easi-fit uses a throttle, which I was given to understand was outlawed in 2016, or thereabouts? Only pedal assist, not pure electric power, is permitted on bikes or installarions after that date.

Edit - yes, from January 1 2016, the only *throttles legal* within the *UK's* EAPC *legislation* are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – i.e. starting assistance only. ... If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the *throttle* can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph. The Easi-fit website describes being able to ride using only the throttle, which would result in a good pistol whipping from the feds, and rubber hose across the soles of the feed from the courts.

Edit edit - the witeless thumb throttle is optional, so ignore everything ive just said, and simply don't order it.


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## Blue Hills (10 Dec 2020)

I know diddly squat about this stuff but am vaguely keeping an eye on things for the future.

Would like to use a conversion kit as so many ebikes seem to have pointless suspension and even the better ones (for me) often seem to be ally and I would like to avoid aluminium bikes.

I gather that Bosch kit is quite well regarded as originally fitted kit.

So, question - do they do retrofittable conversion kit?

If not why not?

Anyone aware of any plans they may have?


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## Pale Rider (10 Dec 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> So, question - do they do retrofittable conversion kit?


No.



Blue Hills said:


> If not why not?



The Bosch and other factory fit crank drives such as Shimano Steps and Yamaha are complete units.

The bike frame has no bottom bracket.

Where the seat tube, down tube, and chain stay meet there is a curved plate to which the unit is bolted.

Crank drive kits, such as those made by Bafang, use the bike frame's bottom bracket so can be fitted to most bikes.

I think you will struggle to find a steel frame Bosch motored ebike, most are aluminium or carbon.


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## Drago (10 Dec 2020)

Some of the better chinese mid drive kits are actually pretty decent...

http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-2s-gaym

Would go well in a steel framed bike.

Bosch are overrated in the ebike motor sphere. They're not utter hand grenades, but aren't especially reliable either, and mediocrity for the money they charge is a little hard to swallow. The main drive gear is nylon, doubtless to reduce interial losses, and these are starting to split with age and necessitates the motor going in the bin.


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## Blue Hills (10 Dec 2020)

Cripes, didn't realise the drive depended on plastic, even if clever plastic. I wonder why this innovation hasn't been used on leg powered bikes?


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## Stul (10 Dec 2020)

..most (if not all), electronic power steering in cars rely on a "nylon" gear driven by a steel worm drive....never heard of any failing?

https://www.nylacast.com/automotive/products/steering


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## Drago (10 Dec 2020)

Clearly Bosch aren't buying theirs from Nylacast then...


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## Pale Rider (11 Dec 2020)

The reliability of the Bosch system needs to be seen in context.

The millionth motor was produced several years ago - huge numbers for a major bicycle component.

Some of the earlier nylon sprockets failed which was traced to lack of lubrication at the factory.

Bosch produced a 'service pack' - a small tube of white grease.

I've done thousands of miles on three Bosch motors.

A thumb control failed in that time, and my newest Bosch bike needed a software update to cure erratic power delivery.

The motors were reliable in all other respects, which I suspect is the experience of most owners.


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## Drago (11 Dec 2020)

Similarly, ive done over 1000 miles in 3.5 months on a Carrera ebike. Nary a niggle.

Hellfrauds modestly reckon they've sold more Carrera ebikes in the UK than all the other brands combined. Yet log on to the UKs most visited ebike forum and the massive majority of discussion about faulty machines are about other makes of bike and motor, Woosh, Bosch, and others. 

There is, of course, some Carrera discussion, but taken into consideration against the numbers sold its neglisble really,

Yet ask the members to recommend a brand and to a man and woman theyll likely tell you to avoid Carrera, despite the evidence of their very own website actually making them one of the safest bets.

Context is, as you say, everything.


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## cougie uk (11 Dec 2020)

This video is quite interesting and shows how easy it is to convert a bike. 


View: https://youtu.be/qo6i5VcJ-ME


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## Pale Rider (12 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> Context is, as you say, everything.



As an example, all the broken Bosch motors in your pics are the original version which ceased production seven years ago.

I still have one which is running satisfactorily.

No reports of sprocket failure in subsequent and the current generation of Bosch motors, although no doubt some have failed for other reasons.


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## TonyEnjoyD (27 Dec 2020)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Don’t forget import duty and VAT on top of that.


I pre ordered mySwytch conversion kit on 7th December with a 6-10 week delivery time, this is to upgrade my revolution cx which I use purely for recreation,oh and shopping as had to give up driving due young onset dementia.
I opted for the higher grade power battery giving 50km range rather than 30.
Total cost including delivery, At and any taxes costing £644 all in.
It has a 250 watt front wheel motor.
Apparently, the all in onebattery pack and control unit.
Fingers crossed it'll be sooner rather than later.
.
I'll give younthe full SP when I get it and take it out on a good test run.
T


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## currystomper (2 Feb 2022)

Just waiting for delivery, planning on converting a mountain bike to electric. will keep you updated with how this goes....


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## steveindenmark (3 Feb 2022)

I know plenty of people who have them fitted to their Bromptons and are happy with them. The only thing putting me off is the delivery time. It was almost a year. Has that changed?

I was looking at Tern bikes today and saw that they had this article as to why you should not electrify a bog standard bike. 

https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/sup...y-shouldn-t-electrify-your-acoustic-tern-bike


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## Blue Hills (3 Feb 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> I know plenty of people who have them fitted to their Bromptons and are happy with them. The only thing putting me off is the delivery time. It was almost a year. Has that changed?
> 
> I was looking at Tern bikes today and saw that they had this article as to why you should not electrify a bog standard bike.
> 
> https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/sup...y-shouldn-t-electrify-your-acoustic-tern-bike


that's an article on why they think you shouldn't electrify a Tern bike, not bikes in general.

and note this quote:

"Without that process, the resulting e-bike won't ride well. But more importantly, it's very unlikely to pass relevant safety tests. An e-bike's motor adds substantial forces, in new directions, that an acoustic bike's frame and fork weren't designed to handle. For example, adding a front hub would require a massively beefed-up fork to handle the additional stresses safely."

which suggests to me limitations of the Tern rather than bikes in general.

I have a Dahon Speed Pro sports bike - there's a certain (problematical) real-life family connection between Dahon and Tern.

I definitely wouldn't try to electrify my Speed Pro - that would be a safety issue I think. Not to mention endangering my mental health.

and another quick scan of that "article".

This:

@@
First off, there are the costs of getting your after-market motor and battery working reliably. Think fried sensors, melting wires, adapters, and other extra parts … it may cost more than you think to get your e-bike project off the ground.

Next, there are the increased maintenance costs associated with electrifying an acoustic bike. Your bike will be heavier, and your average speed will be higher, so you’ll be putting lots of extra wear and tear on your bike’s frame, fork, and components—none of which were designed to withstand that kind of use. In particular, your bike’s brakes and tires are likely to need very frequent maintenance or replacements (that’s if your tires aren’t constantly deflating on your ride).

@@
so your tyres will go down?
whatever next - you'll break out in spots, your wee will turn blue?


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## steveindenmark (3 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> that's an article on why they think you shouldn't electrify a Tern bike, not bikes in general.
> 
> and note this quote:
> 
> ...


I had never an article saying you should not use something like a Swych on a bike. I understand this is for Tern bikes but I think it could be pretty generic. As I said, I know plenty of people who have been happy with their Swytch kit for a long time. An article like this would not put me off having a go at Swytch if the delivery time has improved.


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## CXRAndy (3 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> that's an article on why they think you shouldn't electrify a Tern bike, not bikes in general.
> 
> and note this quote:
> 
> ...


I've never read such waffle. Who drafted that? Are their bikes made of cheese?

Speed and decelerating are two different issues. A motor kit and battery add about 5-8kg. Riders weights could be 20-30kg in difference, the forces associated with rider weight are far greater than a motor kit.


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## IanSmithCSE (3 Feb 2022)

Good morning,

I have just read that page on the Tern site and initially it appeared to me like something written by the marketing department, _please bang out an article on ebike conversions, but don't spend much time on it.
_
But then I realised that I was thinking in UK terms, 250watt motor, but what about 500 or 750 watt motors? 

It doesn't seem unreasonable to avoid discussions on legal and illegal conversions, especially as conversions may be making it possible to exceed the limits a selling point.

Bye

Ian


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## newfhouse (3 Feb 2022)

> Swytch conversation kit​


I suppose it gives solitary riders someone to chat with.


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## currystomper (11 Feb 2022)

I ordered my kit on the 6 week delivery which should have given a delivery of mid Jan, its now been picked, but not delivered yet


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## currystomper (11 Feb 2022)

Just delivered, it seems that some of the waiting times have been shocking, but they seem to be getting better now....


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## currystomper (20 Feb 2022)

Basically what is in the box, I have taken to wheel out and put it back for the photo, some some of the cardboard is more battered than on first opening


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## bonzobanana (21 Feb 2022)

Swytch kits look great and easy to fit but the pricing model for what is a relatively standard chinese geared hub motor and a smallish battery of fairly low capacity seems a bit high even after the so called half price pre-order deal. Also the fact its slightly more proprietary means more difficult to customise later on and replace batteries etc. However on the positive side its relatively weak motor so not really too demanding on the frame and forks I would of thought and if you are converting a mountain bike you have additional strength built into the design of such bikes which makes them ideal candidates for ebike upgrades. It really depends on the bike though some brands have had low weight capacities like the 100kg total load of Decathlon bikes and there was a huge recall on the larger frame Rockriders that kept breaking very early on. One report had the frame failing after only two weeks. I think the issue was Decathlon were buying fairly basic Chinese market spec frames from China hence the low weight limits even though assembled into bikes in Europe. Just making the point not all mountain bike frames are equal. Some have high weight limits and long frame warranties some have low weight limits and short frame warranties.

Here are the Yose kits which are shipped from the UK so presumably no additional tax and quick delivery.

https://yosepower.com/collections/uk-shipping

Yes more involved to fit but then easier to optimise and customise for your bike.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Feb 2022)

Anyone who uses the word "acoustic" to denote to a non-electric bicycle deserves to develop a really nasty itchy rash.


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## wheresthetorch (21 Feb 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Anyone who uses the word "acoustic" to denote to a non-electric bicycle deserves to develop a really nasty itchy rash.


Same for 'analogue'.


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## Andy_R (21 Feb 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Anyone who uses the word "acoustic" to denote to a non-electric bicycle deserves to develop a really nasty itchy rash.


As I read somewhere else.."May your crotch be infested with 1000 fleas, and your arms too short to reach it."


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## currystomper (11 Mar 2022)

In Scotland 'tie you to a post and let the midge get you'. 

On the subject of the build slight problem new axle 10.0mm across the flats, forks 9.94mm slots... 9.95mm after cleaning with a file, going to need a bit more adjustment.


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## currystomper (11 Mar 2022)

Yes so the Yose kits are a bit cheaper, but I wanted some the a bit easier to fit first time round. Also wanted to see it I can swap it between bikes.


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## currystomper (20 Mar 2022)

So that's the bike electrified.




Its wasn't too hard to do about 3 hours with the bits of fiddling that I had to do on my bike - on others I could see it being done in 90 minutes. The two main problems were the clearances around the front axle. The slot wasn't quite 10.mm (its was 9.95) so that need to be eased, also the nut is quite big and only just passed the edge of the bugle in the casting were the shock is housed - it was so close it took off some of the paint. The other problem was the cadence sensor - if you have a 2mm or greater gap between the crank arm and the frame then there is a neat adapter in the kit, however my crank arm is butted up to the frame so magnetic ring has to sit in free space - I added a 3d printed spacer to sort this out, but could be a problem for others - all there is very little room between the fat tubes of this frame and the crank so the sensor only just fitted. Also it was a touching fit to the front changer bracket -so that could be a problem on other bikes. Generally I would recommend the kit, probably better on a lower end bike with more standard kit.


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## currystomper (20 Mar 2022)

So how does it ride. 

So this is my first electric bike, the kit does make the front end a bit heaver, to me it feels a bit like a motor bike front end rather than a bicycle front end. Its all bolted to the steering and close to the center of the the swinging point so not really a problem for me. I spoke to a friend who owns a bike shop and he was warning that the front of electric drive bicycles can spin out so maybe the low power and extra weight on the front is a good thing for this kit. 

So thoughts from my first ride: 

The power assist comes in after about half a turn of the crank and in the lowest setting it just gently helps to push you along its nice and not at all intimidating. If you stop pedaling then the assistance stop immediately. I rode to a local hill which is pretty steep in one section, turned the power to max and gently soft pedaled the kit got me up the hill no problem, it did slow down, but had no problem getting up what must be a 20% slope. 

I got the kit for two reasons, 1) to help my other half get back into cycling and get her up the hills that she fears, we will only do a max of 20 miles so there will be plenty of power at the lowest setting for her to get around even boosting the power a little to get up the hills. 2) to get me to work without me getting really hot and bothered up that steep hill I mentioned above, so as an alternative to driving the 5 miles to work each day - and I think the kit will do both of these things very well. 

I think the kit will be well used to go to the shops in the summer it is a really nice alternative to the bike when you just want to get some where and not out "getting exercise!!"


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## currystomper (20 Mar 2022)

Swapping the kit between bikes - I think than the crank sensor will have to live on one bike, however a second sensor is only a few pounds and changing the wheel and the battery clip is only four bolts, so both can probably be swapped over in 15 minutes - so that's what I plan to do.


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## Binka (25 Mar 2022)

Hope your kit works better than mine. I’m on my second kit and both as bad as other. There’s a major design fault which means the battery doesn’t connect tightly enough to the bracket and on slightly rough ground it cuts out. Six months with it and nothing but problems. My commute is harder with it than before due to the weight. I’ve asked for a refund but they won’t refund. They admit it’s faulty but say I have a duff one and they’ll send me another. Which is pointless as it’s the same design.


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## bonzobanana (26 Mar 2022)

Binka said:


> Hope your kit works better than mine. I’m on my second kit and both as bad as other. There’s a major design fault which means the battery doesn’t connect tightly enough to the bracket and on slightly rough ground it cuts out. Six months with it and nothing but problems. My commute is harder with it than before due to the weight. I’ve asked for a refund but they won’t refund. They admit it’s faulty but say I have a duff one and they’ll send me another. Which is pointless as it’s the same design.



I don't think that is a common complaint with the Swytch kits but the fact they do kits for just about every bike there has to be bikes perhaps that don't take the kit as well, maybe bikes where the front has a fairly rigid wheel, thin high pressure tyres and maybe aluminium forks. The fact the hub motor is at the front means shorter spokes less flex and slightly more harshness to the ride. 

I've seen reviews of the kits and people were fairly happy with the level of assistance. The motors have 40Nm of torque which is not bad at all. I guess the average torque a rider has is probably around 50Nm but older less fit riders could be down to 30Nm average over an extended period. I would of thought that is ok assistance its like a second person riding the bike with you without the weight of that person.


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## Binka (26 Mar 2022)

Oh I’m happy with the assistance when it’s working but it’s cutting in and out like a flickering lightbulb. And I see a lot of “judder” complaints on the unofficial swytch fb group. The problem with the kit is the connection point between the battery and connector. Nothing to do with the individual bike.


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## bonzobanana (26 Mar 2022)

Binka said:


> Oh I’m happy with the assistance when it’s working but it’s cutting in and out like a flickering lightbulb. And I see a lot of “judder” complaints on the unofficial swytch fb group. The problem with the kit is the connection point between the battery and connector. Nothing to do with the individual bike.


What I meant was some bikes might have a softer ride which would mean less movement/judder at the handlebars so less likely the battery would disconnect from the connector intermittently.

Shame no one has come up with a workaround yet like strapping the battery to the connector more securely.

Do you have the low capacity battery or the heavier high capacity battery?


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## currystomper (2 Apr 2022)

Are you sure it's not the pedal sensor, I'm pretty sure it could move and not always sense the pedals rotations.... 

.. Just a thought.


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## currystomper (8 Apr 2022)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/revie.../swytch-universal-ebike-conversion-kit-review

I generally agree with this report


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## Playpen (24 Apr 2022)

Just fitted my Swytch kit to a Voodoo Marassa hybrid, went ok only issues were the supplied cable ties weren't long enough due to the oversize tubing on the bike, having to slightly file the drop outs (seems a common issue) and one of the pins on the main connector was slightly bent but was straightened with no issues.

Initial test ride was good and had me grinning when gliding up the hill at the end of my road - I'd normally be gritting my teeth on my regular road bike! Hopefully this kit will allow me and the wife to do some leisure rides together and I can even see me using it for short shopping trips.

My road and gravel bikes are tubeless and I'd rather avoid carrying a spanner if possible plus the tubeless setup allows lower tyre pressures.

Has anyone setup their Swytch wheel tubeless ?


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## currystomper (9 May 2022)

I would think you would need to replace the rims, but not sure.


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## currystomper (9 May 2022)

Beebo said:


> There’s a lady at the local allotment who has had similar for a few years. I’ve often wonder whether there is any drawback to having the power through the front wheel and not the rear?


My local bike shop said that with front wheel drive you need to watch out for possible wheel spin up really steep slopes


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## ColinJ (9 May 2022)

currystomper said:


> My local bike shop said that with front wheel drive you need to watch out for possible wheel spin up really steep slopes



Given that I have had my (non-motorised) front wheel actually lift off the road on some local 25% ramps, I would say that is definitely true.

On a conventional bike it is a balancing act between keeping the front end down, and keeping enough weight on the back to stop the rear wheel slipping. On the e-bike the rider would have to lean forward more.


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## currystomper (25 May 2022)

So just got another pedal sensor and moved the kit to another bike to use as a daily (dry days generally!!) commute and nip to the shops bike. Again the biggest problem was that the forks were 9.95mm, so some filing needed to get them to 10.0mm. (no sensor fitting issues on this bike)

The plan is/was no lycra on this bike just ride in what you are wearing, its great - can get up hills without getting at all sweaty I keep gently pedaling all the way probably at around 50 to 70 watts?






Generally assistance is set at level 2 out of 5, after half a turn of the crank the power comes on like some one gently pushing your back and you are soon up at 15mph. Coming up a hill, I wack it up to full assist and I'm getting up the steepest hill on my way to work no problem.

Here is the profile and speed of my commute






Its 4.8miles in 22 minutes with 300 feet of climb each way, using 2 bars of the five bars on the gauge for the return journey and taking ~ 2 hours to recharge the battery at stated wattage (on the charger) of 85 watts in the evening.

Again at the shops its great, attach a pannier and 4 pints of milk, a litre of coke and various other items are quickly and effortless delivered home, probably as quick as I could do this in the car.


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## currystomper (3 Jun 2022)

Here are my thoughts on the swytch kit that I've had for a few months https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/swytch-conversation-kit.283114/ great for a commuter convertion, but maybe not for longer rides, note the main problem seems to be a lot of drop outs are not metric 10.0mm but 9.95mm so need to be eased.


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## wryneck (9 Jun 2022)

Do not buy one of these kits, they are too unreliable.
I purchased one of these kits for my own bike and my wife’s and have nothing but trouble with them both.
Both kits have cut-out mid-ride but despite having had components changed under warranty the problems returned after its expiry date. The problem seems to be with the pedal sensors which are activated by magnets on a disc fitted to the pedal crank.


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## bonzobanana (10 Jun 2022)

I wouldn't buy a Swytch kit anyway as they are very poor value based on their low capacity battery. However normally pedal cadence sensor issues are poor installation however I've seen reports of Swytch kits having intermittant power due to the battery mounting losing contact at times. Really we shouldn't even be dealing with cadence sensor issues anyway . This was an EU initiative favoured by EU companies like Bosch who wanted bikes to be pedal assist but its much safer just to have a simple throttle you have full control of up to the maximum 15.5mph speed. Cadence sensors can kick in and out abruptly and its a poor option, torque sensors are better but can be problematic. The UK legislation that was in play up to 2016 should be reinstated and then you just apply the throttle when you need power and you can apply as much or little as you want but it only assists up to 15.5mph/25Km/h. This is safer and helps increase ebike range and improves reliability too.


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## mjr (10 Jun 2022)

I understand ( but don't agree with) the safety argument, but how would a throttle increase range?


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## BoldonLad (10 Jun 2022)

mjr said:


> I understand ( but don't agree with) the safety argument, but how would *a throttle increase range?*



Presumably, because, you could pedal and not use the throttle?, if you wished, and/or just be very "gentle" with the throttle. 

However, the eBikes, Mrs @BoldonLad and myself have just acquired, have a "zero assist" mode, where they operate as "normal" bicycles, so, like you, I don't really follow the "increased range" claim.


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## Dogtrousers (10 Jun 2022)

Does this forum have enough threads on Swytch kits? 

There are 3 on the first page alone
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/swytch-conversion-kits.285859/ 
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/swytch-conversation-kit.283114/ 
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/swytch-views.264384/
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/swytch-e-assist-conversion-pack-any-thoughts.260270/


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## Pat "5mph" (10 Jun 2022)

Mod Note:
Three threads on this topic have been merged.


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## bonzobanana (11 Jun 2022)

mjr said:


> I understand ( but don't agree with) the safety argument, but how would a throttle increase range?



I'm not sure how the safety improvement is debatable as a throttle gives you full and fine control of power and means you don't have to be pedalling in certain situations plus you don't get the motor kicking in and out at random times based on cadence sensor readings or the torque sensor. If you are in a complex traffic situation and want fine control of power only a throttle provides that and means you could be less tired in those situations. A throttle is pretty much the standard way of controlling power/speed on all other vehicles on the road and it makes sense to extend that to ebikes too. No one wants to be controlling power/speed on a car by turning a set of pedals faster or slower. Separating motor power from pedalling makes perfect sense especially with hub motors.

A throttle can increase range simply because it only operates when you turn the throttle so you can be conservative with when to use power. Most bikes have stepped power levels where they will use power most of the time. If you are approaching a hill with a set power level and cadence sensor the bike will be consuming power all the time. If you approach the hill with a torque sensor ebike the bike will supply more power based on the torque you are applying but on a throttle you can simply cycle up the hill on your own power as far as you are comfortable and then simply turn the throttle to provide power when you actually need it so its easy to be more conservative with power and maximise range. However the reverse is also true you can consume more power if you want to by using the throttle more often. So a throttle can be consume the most or the least power because you have full control of that power its as simple as that.


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