# Do your toes touch the ground?



## danjanoob (12 Apr 2013)

Should your toes be able to reach the floor when on the saddle?

I ask as I don't feel my legs are extending enough on their stroke so my legs feel cramped sometimes, but if i raise my seat anymore i will not be able to reach the ground from the saddle, which worries me.

This probably seems like a really stupid question, but i'm wondering if anybody rides with the ground out of reach, without coming off the saddle.


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## gavintc (12 Apr 2013)

The distance between the ground and your seat height is irrelevant. The only distance that counts is the saddle to pedal distance. When you come to a stop, you slide forward off your seat.


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## ianrauk (12 Apr 2013)

My toes can only reach the floor when I lean the bike over a little. And think that's the same for a lot of people.

You really need to set your saddle height properly.
There are many ways to do this. But one of the most popular is to, when seated on the bike, put your heel on the pedal. Your leg should be straight. So when you put your toes on the pedal you will have a small bend in the knee.

*Here's* a link to that, and other methods of how to set your saddle height.


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## Globalti (12 Apr 2013)

No no no. I doubt whether any cyclist who is riding a correctly set-up bike can touch the ground. I can just about contact the ground with my tippy-tiptoes if I stretch and one toe if I slip partially off the saddle sideways.

Correct seat height is far more important than being able to touch the ground.


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## Globalti (12 Apr 2013)

Blimey! A blitz of replies!


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## Kookas (12 Apr 2013)

I can't reach the ground either, but I don't come off the saddle, I just lean. I always found coming off the saddle a bit odd, since I didn't grow up with a good bike fit and always just leant to one side.

(I never ride out of the saddle on it either. I am permanently ensaddled.)


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## MontyVeda (12 Apr 2013)

Personally I prefer my saddle a bit on the low side... but it is an MTB so altogether more casual. There's nowt more annoying than a 'correctly set up saddle' repeatedly whacking one in the derrière when hurtling down a bridleway. So in answer to your question, yes, my toes do touch the ground when in the saddle, and i like it that way.


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## danjanoob (12 Apr 2013)

Thanks everybody. Quite comforting really as i thought you were supposed to be able to reach the floor when stopped on the saddle. I'll raise the saddle for tomorrows ride and hopefully give my legs a good stretch.

BTW this is riding a road bike. I can understand having a lower saddle on a mtb.


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## Psycolist (12 Apr 2013)

The last time my toes reached the floor was when I took the Cycling Proficiency Test in 1969


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## numbnuts (12 Apr 2013)

I can't touch the ground if I stop I have to slide off the saddle


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## Banjo (12 Apr 2013)

danjanoob said:


> Thanks everybody. Quite comforting really as i thought you were supposed to be able to reach the floor when stopped on the saddle. I'll raise the saddle for tomorrows ride and hopefully give my legs a good stretch.
> 
> BTW this is riding a road bike. I can understand having a lower saddle on a mtb.


 
Your thighs are going to love the new position.Im guessing with the saddle that low you were getting some serious burn on the top of your thighs?

Continuing to ride with the saddle too low would have probably caused you knee problems as well. 

I think the 2 feet on the ground thing only applies to small children.


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## danjanoob (12 Apr 2013)

Banjo said:


> Your thighs are going to love the new position.Im guessing with the saddle that low you were getting some serious burn on the top of your thighs?
> 
> Continuing to ride with the saddle too low would have probably caused you knee problems as well.
> 
> I think the 2 feet on the ground thing only applies to small children.


 
Spot on. My thighs were very unhappy. Not really in any pain after my hour commute, but definitely aching in the wrong way. Made it very difficult after an intense period without stopping, to move off from traffic lights.


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## Hip Priest (12 Apr 2013)

I can get a toe down at lights, but if it's a long wait I'll come off the saddle.


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## marzjennings (12 Apr 2013)

I can on tiptoe, but then again I have some big feet. Size 13 cycle shoes.


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## gaz (12 Apr 2013)

As above, I can get a toe down. Size 12 feet.


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## Nathjh (12 Apr 2013)

Wow! I'm glad I found this thread! The guy in my lbs set mine up with me on the bike, had me sat on the seat and being able to touch the ground partially but raised it a little as my legs were crunched up. Now I've read this and I'm all over the show! Tomorrow after I've done a bit of maintenance I shall be raising the seat to a mor comfortable level. Thanks.


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## Cyclopathic (13 Apr 2013)

gavintc said:


> The distance between the ground and your seat height is irrelevant. The only distance that counts is the saddle to pedal distance. *When you come to a stop, you slide forward off your seat*.


Or stop near the kirb.


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## Easytigers (13 Apr 2013)

Can't touch the floor with my toes either. I get really sore knees if the saddle isn't high enough and sounds like you need to up it a bit too if legs are getting cramped


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## Mr Haematocrit (13 Apr 2013)

have to get off the seat completely to touch the floor


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## Nathjh (13 Apr 2013)

Right. I've just been and had a look. Leaned myself against a wall so I didn't fall off. Bum on seat, heel on pedal. Absolutely straight leg... I'm stumped! Maybe I need a different size bike?! This cycling game isn't half confusing!!


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## Chris S (13 Apr 2013)

danjanoob said:


> Should your toes be able to reach the floor when on the saddle?


 
Some people recommend this for safety reasons - it allows you to do an emergency stop if your brakes fail. The chances of both brakes failing at the same time are rather slim though.

Perhaps it only applies to those fixie riders who don't have them? It's not unknown for a chain to slip off.


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## Kookas (13 Apr 2013)

Chris S said:


> Some people recommend this for safety reasons - it allows you to do an emergency stop if your brakes fail. The chances of both brakes failing at the same time are rather slim though.
> 
> Perhaps it only applies to those fixie riders who don't have them? It's not unknown for a chain to slip off.



If my brakes failed, putting my legs down is the last thing I'd want to do. I'd just find the steepest hill (easy enough in Birmingham) and go up without pedaling.

I'd definitely not trade off the benefit that applies to 100% of the time spent cycling just for a risk that will only apply to less than 1% of it.


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## deadpool7 (13 Apr 2013)

I can barely touch with my tip toes but it wouldn't do me much good when stopping. I slide forward off the saddle at stops.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (13 Apr 2013)

Barely and I'm not challenged in the leg length department


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## robjh (13 Apr 2013)

Agree with most that's been said - can do tiptoes and leaning, but mostly by sliding forward off the saddle when I stop (or stop at a kerb and stay seated). 
In the other direction, you can over-raise the saddle, and I find myself sitting very heavily on a saddle and getting back-ache. Sometimes just 1/2 cm adjustment can make all the difference.


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## Sara_H (13 Apr 2013)

I've got really bad balance (legacy of a herniated disc a few years ago) and if I can't touch the ground after stopping I'm prone to toppling over.


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## Monkreadusuk (13 Apr 2013)

Had mine setup by my LBS using the heel method. However that doesnt seem to have done the trick. After a week of commuting (around 150 miles) my right knee is killing me. Doctor has said ive got fluid on the knee. Will have for fork out for a bike fit session me thinks 

I have to lean to put a foot down, but not by much.


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## Tigerbiten (13 Apr 2013)

I can easily get both feet flat on the ground when I unclip after I've stop.
But I normally leave both my feet clipped in when I stop as it makes setting off so much easier/quicker.

Then again, I'm riding a recumbent trike and my bums only 8" off the ground ...............


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## youngoldbloke (13 Apr 2013)

I can't see how you could put both feet down while sitting on the saddle _and_ have your saddle height correctly adjusted - it is just not possible. When stopping you move forward off the saddle.


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## Blurb (13 Apr 2013)

I can just touch on tiptoes and slide off or seek the kerb if stopped for any length of time.
Regarding the heel on pedal straight leg method. I think this is recommended as a starting point and adjust from there depending on your personal body structure. I actually used this method and had to move the saddle slightly higher on all my bikes to get comfortable. Shoe/foot size will make a difference.
My personal knee pain epiphany came when I realised it wasn't the height, but the fore-aft relative position of pedals to saddle. Once fixed all my knee issues were relieved.


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## Pale Rider (14 Apr 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I've got really bad balance (legacy of a herniated disc a few years ago) and if I can't touch the ground after stopping I'm prone to toppling over.


 
Sarah,

If you really get into ebiking, Dutch maker Gazelle has the answer.

Full leg extension and feet flat on the ground:

http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/...gazelle/gazelle-balance-innergy/prod_763.html

They used to make the Balance bike as an ordinary push bike, but stopped doing so which I think reflects the popularity of ebikes in Holland.


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## Sara_H (14 Apr 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> Sarah,
> 
> If you really get into ebiking, Dutch maker Gazelle has the answer.
> 
> ...


I got a Woosh Santana which is quite comfortable. Still getting used to it at the mo, I don't always stop as quickly as I think I'm going to and come to a halt with both toes dragging along the road!


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## Pale Rider (14 Apr 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I don't always stop as quickly as I think I'm going to and come to a halt with both toes dragging along the road!


 
Ebikes are heavy and can take a bit of stopping.

There's a cable disc on the front of the Sant Ana I think.

Cable discs seem more prone to glazing than hydraulic ones.

A good tip is to smear some dirt on the disc and use the brake as normal.


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## Sara_H (14 Apr 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> Ebikes are heavy and can take a bit of stopping.
> 
> There's a cable disc on the front of the Sant Ana I think.
> 
> ...


TBH, though I'm generally delighted with the bike and it's given me back my freedom - it's obviously at the very budget end of things. The bike is very "noisy", lots of rattling and clanking (the OH says the rear mudguard wobbles about all over when I'm riding), and I don't think the gears and brakes are very well adjusted. I'm going to get my LBS man to look it over and get set up a bit better.

Having said all that, I'm used to hydraulic discs on my usual main bike, and often find myself in bother when on other bikes with lesser brakes!


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## danjanoob (14 Apr 2013)

Bluris said:


> I can just touch on tiptoes and slide off or seek the kerb if stopped for any length of time.
> Regarding the heel on pedal straight leg method. I think this is recommended as a starting point and adjust from there depending on your personal body structure. I actually used this method and had to move the saddle slightly higher on all my bikes to get comfortable. Shoe/foot size will make a difference.
> My personal knee pain epiphany came when I realised it wasn't the height, but the fore-aft relative position of pedals to saddle. Once fixed all my knee issues were relieved.



Maybe this Is my issue.

How did you fix it?

I rode with the seat an inch higher yesterday and felt much better. But while my right leg felt brilliant with no fatigue, the left thigh still ached.


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## Mallory (14 Apr 2013)

I've used one of the various measurement guides to set my saddle height. If my bike is dead upright I can just reach the ground with my the end of my toes, so I have to lean the bike to the right when I stop at lights etc.


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## Davidc (14 Apr 2013)

Chris S said:


> Some people recommend this for safety reasons - it allows you to do an emergency stop if your brakes fail. The chances of both brakes failing at the same time are rather slim though.
> 
> Perhaps it only applies to those fixie riders who don't have them? It's not unknown for a chain to slip off.


 
I've been riding a bike for a very long time and a very long distance in that time. I have never seen a bike have both brakes fail on the road, not mine or anyone else's.

When I stop I can touch down on one side with the bike leaning a bit. Unless there's a kerb or bank I then just slip out of the saddle.

When buying a bike I do always make sure the ground to top tube clearance (stepover height) is more than my inside leg, be  otherwise.


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## Blurb (14 Apr 2013)

danjanoob said:


> Maybe this Is my issue.
> 
> How did you fix it?


 
Hi, THIS site describes it well. Worked for me, but there is some debate about it on a few sites.
I tend to run at a higher cadence to protect my knees and keep the knee as close to over the pedal spindle as possible. Give it a go. Change one thing at a time and test a few times. Good luck


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## Psycolist (14 Apr 2013)

Cyclopathic said:


> Or stop near the kirb.


 Dont put your trust in kerbs. The next town along the coast to me decided that thier main shopping street would look lovely in block paving, but to reduce the cost they did it between the kerbs. I ride into town shortly after all the work is complete and slow to a stop, popping a foot out to rest on the kerb, not realizing that the kerb was now at the same level as the road surface. A swallow dive it was not, but the only thing hurt was my pride, so, as I said, dont trust the kerbs


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## tyred (15 Apr 2013)

It just might be possible to have the saddle correctly adjusted and touch the ground as a factor of frame geometry and bb height. I can do it on a 1960s Dutch roadster I have, but such bikes are a minority.


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## earth (15 Apr 2013)

Good question. After taking the bike to a lbs recently they raised the saddle a good 20mm. I agree the extra leg extension is probably more efficient but I find it difficult getting on and touching the ground when stopped at lights. I lowered it again by about 10mm as a compromise but it is still difficult. I have pulled a muscle in my right calf now and I am thinking might be due to over stretching that leg at the lights. But as someone else has pointed out saddle distance to the ground is irrelevant, it is the distance from the saddle to the pedal and there is another way to change that.

If people find it necessary to raise the saddle so far that they cannot touch the ground with their feet, what about longer crank arms?


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## youngoldbloke (15 Apr 2013)

Longer cranks would actually make the situation worse if your saddle is not set correctly high enough. The crank at 12 oclock would be pushing that foot even higher - admittedly only by 2.5 or 5 mm, but no help if the saddle height is not set properly. It is basically wrong to expect to be able to put both feet down whilst in the saddle - move forward off the saddle when stopping. You may be able to touch the kerb with your toe when in the saddle, but that is the very most you should expect.


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## earth (15 Apr 2013)

youngoldbloke said:


> Longer cranks would actually make the situation worse if your saddle is not set correctly high enough. The crank at 12 oclock would be pushing that foot even higher - admittedly only by 2.5 or 5 mm, but no help if the saddle height is not set properly. It is basically wrong to expect to be able to put both feet down whilst in the saddle - move forward off the saddle when stopping. You may be able to touch the kerb with your toe when in the saddle, but that is the very most you should expect.


 
I don't mean you should be able to put both feet down just one with a bit of lean.

Having a crank 5 mm longer means you can lower the saddle by 5 mm and still achieve the same leg extension on the downstroke surely. I agree your knee will move 5 mm higher on the upstroke but are there any important consequences to that?


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## youngoldbloke (15 Apr 2013)

What is the problem with moving forward off the saddle? It soon becomes instinctive. Equally when moving off you should expect to be out of the saddle. I am constantly moving, lifting weight off the saddle - when going over speed bumps for example. If you use longer cranks you will still need to set the saddle height correctly - leg straight with heel on pedal at 6 oclock, good starting point, as many posters have suggested. I don't expect you would notice the effect of longer cranks on the 'upper' leg, but the need to change crank length for this reason seems a bit of a red herring to me


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## byegad (15 Apr 2013)

I can put the flat of my hand onto the road.


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## sheffgirl (15 Apr 2013)

I can just reach the floor with my toes if I move forward in the saddle. I tend to lean on my left foot when stopped at traffic lights with my right foot on the pedal ready to set off. I think my seat height is OK, I did keep getting pain above my right knee when riding recently, but that seems to have stopped fortunately.


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## kedab (17 Apr 2013)

after stalking this thread yesterday, i got up this morning with it fresh in my mind and took some time to fettle with the road bike. it had crossed my mind that my riding position was a bit cramped and that i was shifting about on the saddle far too much...result? raised my saddle height by 30mm and shifted it aft by 10mm...result of that? much more comfortable  didn't have time for a proper ride but i imagine my riding will be quite a bit more efficient now too...can i touch the ground when sat in the saddle? only by a whisker. CC does it again. thanks as always lovely people.


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