# A guide to ebikes



## Pale Rider (1 May 2015)

*A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*

*What is an ebike?*
An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.

*What types are there?*
Basically two, a motor which is bolted to the bottom bracket and drives the cranks, known as a crank drive. The second type uses a hub motor which is laced into either the back or front wheel, known as a hub drive.

*What are the advantages and disadvantages of the two systems?*
A crank drive rides more like an ordinary bicycle because it drives through the gears, which the rider uses in the same way as a push bike. A hub motor works more independently of the rider, so can feel more like (a very underpowered) moped.

There are two types of hub motor: direct drive _and_ geared_._ The direct drive motors rotate all the time and drain pedal power energy when the system is not active. The better design is the geared hub motor which allow the motor to "freewheel" when not in use, which allows the bicycle to ride like a "normal" bicycle when electric assist is not in use.

The front wheel drive hub motors do exhibit some strange characteristic in wet weather on slippery surfaces e.g. drain covers where the front wheel can lose grip.

*How long does the battery last?*
Depends on the size of the battery, the riding conditions, and how much assistance you ask for via the controller.

Batteries are measured in amp/hours (Ah) and are usually around 10Ah or 15Ah. 20Ah batteries are available but are generally a lot more expensive. A 10Ah battery in favourable conditions could last 40 miles, but against hills and headwinds that could drop to under 20 miles. (The large capacity batteries are heavier and much more expensive).

*What about throttles?*
Throttles are legal in the UK but not everywhere in Europe, so most manufacturers don't fit them. Power is governed by fixed settings, usually about five, which the rider chooses via a button on the handlebars. The controller then varies the power delivery depending on how fast you are pedalling, and in the more advanced systems, how much torque you are applying to the pedals.

Throttles are available for some aftermarket kits. While it's tempting to want and use one, holding a throttle open for a long period of time is wearing, and some people find it difficult when they are pedalling as well. The use of a throttle does reduce the range as the throttle is "power hungry".

The majority of kits have a controller and pedelec controller, so the rider has a choice of using set power levels and / or the throttle. The more upmarket kits have a LCD screen with Mph, odometer, battery voltage and power setting.

The pedelec system cuts in after a couple of revolutions and cuts off when you stop pedalling and provides a controlled electric assistance.

*What's the legal position of ebikes?*
The EAPC regulations state that in the UK for an ebike to be legally a push bike it must have a motor of no more than 250 watts continuous power and the motor must cut out at 15mph (=/-10%). The speed cut out is not negotiable, the watt rating is more complex because all motors deliver more peak power when the controller demands it. There are other regulations regarding braking efficiency etc. and the regulations can be found online.

Nearly all complete ebikes sold in the UK are UK legal. The position is different with aftermarket kits where there are lots of higher power motors on sale. I've not heard of anyone being prosecuted for using a high power kit, but legally they are not bicycles, so cannot be used on cycle paths and should have a number plate, and insurance.

Some ebikes with legal motors can be derestricted - the 15mph speed limit removed. This makes them illegal and often doesn't help a great deal - the motor is tuned for torque, not speed, so provides a lot less assistance the faster it goes.

*How much do ebikes cost?*
Anything from £500 to £5K+. As with ordinary bicycles, you get what you pay for. The motor and battery are heavy metal and valuable, so make up £500 or more of the cost. On a £650 ebike, the bicycle part will be cheap and nasty. Paying more than £1,000 will get bike components of medium quality.

The low cost ebikes use sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries. These are heavy and despite the rating of the battery the range is limited due to the construction of the battery at their 1 hour rate. Nicads were used in some early ebikes, again old technology and suffer from "memory problems and premature failure". The current Models use mainly Lithium, LifePO4 or LiPo batteries and further variants are now in production.

Some of the low cost ebikes use brushed motor technology. These motors are heavy and do not produce as much power as the later brushless motors.

The controller and motors are not interchangeable between these two systems

*What about converting my bike?*
A good option if you are reasonably competent mechanically and electrically. Converting enables you to choose the bike and the motor/controller/battery combination - handy if you have specific needs. It can be a bit cheaper, but a quality battery is about £300 and a hub motor £100+. Add a controller and a few bits and pieces and the parts bill will come to around £500. (_Fitting a front hub motor to alloy front forks IS NOT RECOMENDED_).

Crank drive kits are more expensive, but simpler to fit because there's no messing around with lacing a wheel, and the wiring is more straightforward.

Most kits come from China and quality is variable, some very good, others poor. BMS supply some good quality kits but beware the lower prices, once import duty, UK VAT and carriage is added to the price it does mount up. In most cases the duty is payable to the courier before delivery.

*What's not to like about ebikes?*
They are all heavy - 20kg+ - so the cycling experience is not as pure as on a push bike. The weight also means they are hard to pedal unassisted, which can be a problem if the electrics fail or the battery goes flat.

Another disadvantage is the weight makes ebikes unwieldy at A gates and other restrictions. Lifting one on to a train, up stairs or car rack is hard work.

Fixing a puncture is more complex on a hub drive - no quick release and the motor needs to be disconnected. Less of a problem with a crank drive, but there's still the weight to contend with. (_There are some tubes available now that are made to fit without removing the wheel from the bike_).

Hub drives torture spokes, so breakages are more common. That can be sorted by a properly built wheel, but as with ordinary bikes, getting one of those can be difficult.

There is hostility from some push bike riders - most ebikers will have been called 'cheats' more than once, but in reality ebikes fill a gap in the market that allow the not so fit to enjoy a bike ride without the effort of a convention bicycle.

(_Adding a e-motor to a trike transforms it and makes it easier to ride uphill, It also helps with touring trikes that are laden with camping equipment etc._)


The above is intended as a general guide and is accurate as far as I am aware. Specific queries are probably best dealt with in separate threads where I - and others - can provide recommendations and opinions.

The website that caters solely for electric assist pedal cycles is the pedelec website.

The UK EAPC regulations are in the process of being revised. The 40kg for cycles and 60kg for tandems and trikes has been lifted and Electric assisted pedal quad bikes are being legalised.

_*Note:* Thanks to @voyager for additional supporting information._


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## Hyslop (1 May 2015)

Should anyone be in the Longtown area of Cumbria this weeekend,I believe Bikeseven have a series of displays dedicated to e_bikes.


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## Shaun (2 May 2015)

[QUOTE 3672954, member: 259"]Does this have any kind of official CC sanction? It's a bit sketchy and plain wrong in parts.[/QUOTE]

@Pale Rider offered to write an intro post, which I accepted. People will come to CC looking for advice and opinions on electric bikes and an informative sticky will be helpful.

If you (_or anyone else_) feels that some of the info in the post needs expanding on or adjusting, the please feel free to put forward alternative text and we can review it.


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## steveindenmark (4 May 2015)

Pedelecs is a good e bike forum.


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## voyager (15 May 2015)

Shaun said:


> @Pale Rider offered to write an intro post, which I accepted. People will come to CC looking for advice and opinions on electric bikes and an informative sticky will be helpful.
> 
> If you (_or anyone else_) feels that some of the info in the post needs expanding on or adjusting, the please feel free to put forward alternative text and we can review it.



l did but haven't had any response from Shaun ........yet

regards emma


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## Shaun (21 May 2015)

voyager said:


> l did but haven't had any response from Shaun ........yet



Received and on my to-do list ...


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## tuggy (29 Jul 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> *A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*
> 
> *What is an ebike?*
> An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.
> ...


Thanks pale rider. Very helpful


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## emilyisfun (8 Aug 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> *A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*
> 
> *What is an ebike?*
> An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.
> ...


super helpfull! thank you!


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## Ste T. (31 Oct 2017)

Very helpful thanks.
I'm still hanging in there but I can see a time fast approaching when it will be be ebike or no bike and no bike something I will never accept.
Why on earth would anyone shout cheat? The world is full of peanuts.
Who would go to the cost and faff of using one unless they had to.


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## keithmac (2 Nov 2017)

Nothing wrong with e-biking..


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## voyager (2 Nov 2017)

Shaun said:


> Received and on my to-do list ...



may 15


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## Hedgemonkey (28 Mar 2018)

I obviously still have to get into the learning curve of Ebikes, as I find myself still trying to ride above 16 mph when on the flat and on gentle descents and this is bl##dy hardwork with 23kg underneath me.


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## voyager (29 Mar 2018)

smile - keep pedalling , life over 16.5 mph is hard work 

so is a single speed butchers bike without any assist ( so I have been told )

happy easter 

regards emma


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## Rockn Robin (9 Aug 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> *A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*
> 
> *What is an ebike?*
> An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.
> ...



Great information. Well put together.


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## Gary E (9 Aug 2018)

Great post, thanks.
Anything that attracts more people to cycling has to be good for all of us.


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (15 Apr 2019)

I was reading a review on a trek road bike & came across this.
*Different interpretations*
There are now fewer ‘grey areas’ than there were when UK and EU laws were different, but we still found some differences of opinion among some people in the industry.

James Fitzgerald, founder of electric bike retailer Just eBike says that “according to EU and UK law there is a 10 per cent margin on the maximum speed allowed for the motors to assist the pedals. But nobody knows about that.” That means that the motor could assist the cyclist up to a 17.5mph speed, and not 15.5 mph.


On the other hand, the brothers Lyle and James Metcalfe – founders of London-based UK ebike brand Volt, said they “had never heard of” this margin for error.

Peter Eland, technical manager of the Bicycle Association, which represents cycle suppliers, manufacturers and associated companies, told us: “The 10 per cent margin was clear in the EU legislation, but it’s questionable in the UK. Some motors cut off at the maximum speed allowed, some before that, but the majority do exceed the tolerance a little.”


Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/electric-bikes-uk-law-234973#mhEAwkPLE3fppRSZ.99


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## voyager (15 Apr 2019)

EAPC regs state 15mph +/- 10%
= 16.5 mph 

regards Emma


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## gbb (15 Apr 2019)

I've often noticed my Crossfire appears to be giving some assistance at around 16 mph but never thought much about it. I will watch more intently next time..


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (15 Apr 2019)

Mine is 16.5


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## jowwy (16 Apr 2019)

voyager said:


> EAPC regs state 15mph +/- 10%
> = 16.5 mph
> 
> regards Emma


It’s actually 25km/h which relates to 15.5mph in English money......so +/- 10% = 17.05


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## voyager (16 Apr 2019)

current eapc regs 
https://www.cycleassociation.uk/e-bikes/regulations-eapc-regs/

appears to be 15.5 mph , no mention of +/- 10%

regards Emma


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## jowwy (17 Apr 2019)

voyager said:


> current eapc regs
> https://www.cycleassociation.uk/e-bikes/regulations-eapc-regs/
> 
> appears to be 15.5 mph , no mention of +/- 10%
> ...


its the same as motor vehicle speeding never quotes the +/- 10% but it does exist, because public speedometers are not tested and regulated in MOTs as it would cost way too much........

Cressida dick the police commissioner has campaigned in the past for the 10% leeway to be removed

According to a National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) spokesperson that the rule is a “guidance” and “not part of legislation.”

“The 10 per cent rule is allowed in guidance but it is not part of legislation. 

“It is used as a rule of thumb for enforcement – 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2mph. 

“The thinking behind this is to ensure that enforcement is proportionate.”

One of the main reasons that drivers are given a tolerance when speeding offences are concerned is due to inaccuracies in equipment that is used to measure speed.


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## ebikeerwidnes (7 Jun 2019)

There have been several senior police officers around recently that are threatening to start prosecuting based on 1mph over the limit - and claim that they are entitled to do so

SO the 10% thing on ebikes may also be dodgy
anyway - mine cuts out at 15.5 - so I'm OK
can't see anyone checking though - and how could you prove easily that it had cut out and the cyclits wasn't pedalli a bit still


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## youngoldbloke (8 Jun 2019)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> There have been several senior police officers around recently that are threatening to start prosecuting based on 1mph over the limit - and claim that they are entitled to do so
> 
> SO the 10% thing on ebikes may also be dodgy
> anyway - mine cuts out at 15.5 - so I'm OK
> can't see anyone checking though - and how could you prove easily that it had cut out and the cyclits wasn't pedalli a bit still


This puzzles me too - how could anyone check whether you were riding with assistance or not? - and why bother? If you were riding at 20mph for example, the sort of speed it is quite reasonable to attain on a bike under leg power alone.


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## Pale Rider (8 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> This puzzles me too - how could anyone check whether you were riding with assistance or not? - and why bother? If you were riding at 20mph for example, the sort of speed it is quite reasonable to attain on a bike under leg power alone.



That is true, but where things might fall out of bed is if an illegal ebike is involved in a serious accident and there is a proper investigation.

The offence is not speeding, it's using a derestricted ebike in a place where the public has access.

In other words, it is illegal to use such a bike at 10mph.

I've not heard of any cases of an ebiker being prosecuted, but there may have been one or two.

There was an incident, I think in London, in which an ebiker knocked over a pedestrian and fled on foot.

Not sure if he was ever identified.


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## Phaeton (8 Jun 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Not sure if he was ever identified.


I remember the bike was found, I have a vague recollection that the rider was identified but not heard anything further.


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## ebikeerwidnes (3 Jul 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> This puzzles me too - how could anyone check whether you were riding with assistance or not? - and why bother? If you were riding at 20mph for example, the sort of speed it is quite reasonable to attain on a bike under leg power alone.



Yup - the only way they can check is by confiscating the bike and sending it off to an 'expert' for testing. Although I have no idea who the expert would be. 
I was wondering about this the other day. According to the regulations they should have a plate on them that states power, cutoff speed (or something) but there are alternatives like the motor giving its make etc - seems a bit wolly
The plate thingy sound like the sort of the a police officer would be able to look at and settle the matter - in theory
BUT
a) who it to say you have not lobbed a bigger motor in or chipped the controller and not changed the plate
b) in any case - although my 10 year old Powacycle has a plate - my wife's new carrera folder doesn't - I asked Halfords about it and, after several days wait, they just said it complies with the regs.. i don't think they could really answer so it was just customer-service-legal-techy-answer-number 17.
I also had a look at a few in the LBS and Halfords - none had a plate

I guess they would only go as far as a check if there was a serious accident and the ebiker was potentially at fault - or if the ebiker seriously annoyed the police by being a prat.

Oh - and as far as the speed goes - according to Endomondo - I exceed 20 mph quite a lot on bike rides - and I am sure the motor cuts out legally! (I'm 59 and overweight - if I can do it anyone can!!!)


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## Phaeton (3 Jul 2019)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Oh - and as far as the speed goes - according to Endomondo - I exceed 20 mph quite a lot on bike rides - and I am sure the motor cuts out legally! (I'm 59 and overweight - if I can do it anyone can!!!)


Disagree, I rarely get anywhere that unless it's downhill, my average speed is 10mph


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## Mart44 (11 Jul 2019)

The speedometer on my Scott e-bike (Brose motor) gives a reading of 16 MPH before the motor cuts out. The trouble is that this speed is soon got used to and doesn't seem fast enough. I thought about overcoming the restriction but decided against it. I have some third-party insurance and I expect this would be void if I caused an accident and the bike was found to have been modified.

Another thing I found recently is just how much harder work it is to keep up a constant 16 MPH on an ordinary pedal bike. If ever that 16 MPH doesn't seem fast enough, try going back to pure pedal power for a while. It made me appreciate just how much assistance the motor on the e-bike is giving and also made 16 MPH seem quite fast.


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## Phil Fouracre (11 Jul 2019)

Exactly what I found, soon get used to it, and don’t realise how much assistance you are getting. Interesting, you’ve got a Scott ebike, we’ve ordered two, but, they will have Shimano Steps units, looking forward to seeing how they perform. Just as an aside, did deristrict two retrofit kits years ago, and very pleasantly surprised how they felt with a bit of ‘extra’


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## youngoldbloke (11 Jul 2019)

Mart44 said:


> The speedometer on my Scott e-bike (Brose motor) gives a reading of 16 MPH before the motor cuts out. The trouble is that this speed is soon got used to and doesn't seem fast enough. I thought about overcoming the restriction but decided against it. I have some third-party insurance and I expect this would be void if I caused an accident and the bike was found to have been modified.
> 
> Another thing I found recently is just how much harder work it is to keep up a constant 16 MPH on an ordinary pedal bike. If ever that 16 MPH doesn't seem fast enough, try going back to pure pedal power for a while. It made me appreciate just how much assistance the motor on the e-bike is giving and also made 16 MPH seem quite fast.



It's not really 'quite fast' - I (try to) ride with the club slower training group on a traffic free circuit. It is more to do with bike handling and riding in a group than speed, the slow group, for younger, less experienced and older riders. I used to ride regularly on an unassisted bike before vascular disease began to affect my leg muscles - and I bought an Orbea Gain. Now on the Gain I'm lucky if I can stay with the group for even 1 lap - we were travelling at 33kph within half a lap this week, so an ebike is giving NO assistance whatsoever - the opposite being true as even the Gain is a heavy lump to push at higher speeds. I'm not boasting - It all depends what you are used to - our club leisure rides drift up well over 15.5mph without really trying. I'd find a cut off of 20mph much more helpful.


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## Notafettler (26 Aug 2019)

I could pull a dog trailer (14kgs) with my dog (20kgs) 12 miles there and 12 miles back using my Thorn or my Santos.
I could pull my cargo trailer (12kgs) full of firewood various distances using my Thorn or my Santos.
But I would rather cheat and use a car. If only I had one. Instead I use my kalkhoff ebike because I am not a cheat.


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## Notafettler (26 Aug 2019)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Exactly what I found, soon get used to it, and don’t realise how much assistance you are getting. Interesting, you’ve got a Scott ebike, we’ve ordered two, but, they will have Shimano Steps units, looking forward to seeing how they perform. Just as an aside, did deristrict two retrofit kits years ago, and very pleasantly surprised how they felt with a bit of ‘extra’


Never struggle and use power assist on the flat no matter what weight I am pulling once I am at 8miles an hour with assistance. Obviously I have to use assistance to reach that speed. BUT this only applies if I use the kalkhoff irregularly if I use it 2 or 3 days on the trot I find myself using assistance more and more......and needing it!
Or do I? Is it making me lazy?


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## Notafettler (26 Aug 2019)

Haven't I read that changing the rear sprocket on an ebike can result in the bike reaching higher speeds while still using assistance? I am nearly certain I read it about the kalkhoff ebike.


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## Pale Rider (27 Aug 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Haven't I read that changing the rear sprocket on an ebike can result in the bike reaching higher speeds while still using assistance? I am nearly certain I read it about the kalkhoff ebike.



Most systems calculate speed by means of a spoke magnet that counts wheel revolutions.

Sprocket sizes and gearing are irrelevant.


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## voyager (27 Aug 2019)

virtually all e-assist use and external wheel sensor or and internal sensor .
fooling a unit by using an incorrect ( smaller ) wheel size will increase the top speed but the speedo will be incorrect.
I have seen someone fitting a 2-1 reduction on a rear hub to increase speed . I personally would fiddle the internal software and increase the cut off speed.

regards Emma


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## Notafettler (3 Sep 2019)

voyager said:


> virtually all e-assist use and external wheel sensor or and internal sensor .
> fooling a unit by using an incorrect ( smaller ) wheel size will increase the top speed but the speedo will be incorrect.
> I have seen someone fitting a 2-1 reduction on a rear hub to increase speed . I personally would fiddle the internal software and increase the cut off speed.
> 
> regards Emma


I am afraid I only use my power assist bike for pulling trailers the dog or wood. Heavy braking at higher speeds tends to lead to the trailer overtaking the bike. The dog definitely does not appreciate it! So low speeds for me and therefore no need for it.


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## Phaeton (3 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> Heavy braking at higher speeds tends to lead to the trailer overtaking the bike.


Is this an issue that quite a few people experience, just thinking is a braked trailer a requirement or is it just complicating things? It would be fairly easy to design.


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## Notafettler (3 Sep 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Is this an issue that quite a few people experience, just thinking is a braked trailer a requirement or is it just complicating things? It would be fairly easy to design.


I think that is just complicating things. No idea how you would do it. I will stick with 8 miles an hour. If pulling wood that is the dogs slow jog speed.


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## Phaeton (3 Sep 2019)

Notafettler said:


> I think that is just complicating things. No idea how you would do it. I will stick with 8 miles an hour. If pulling wood that is the dogs slow jog speed.


It would be quite simple really with an hydraulic hitch & hydraulic brakes, much easier if it wasn't a folding trailer but still possible.


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## cyberknight (3 Sep 2019)

I had a thought on the way home. if e bikes really take off i wonder if you could see charging points at work/ shopping centres etc ?


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Sep 2019)

cyberknight said:


> I had a thought on the way home. if e bikes really take off i wonder if you could see charging points at work/ shopping centres etc ?



On holiday in Italy last year, we stopped in Cortina d’Ampezzo during a day trip to the Dolomites. Lots of electric bikes there and a charging point (suitable for bikes and cars) available outside the LBS.


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## cyberknight (1 Mar 2021)

taking to a group of e bike riders yesterday that turned up for the closed cake stop at the same time , really nice chunky full sussers £4500 ! for riding on the road .
The eldest was in his 90s on a hybrid e bike , i can see the use for him but to me it seemed the others were carting a lot of weight to overcome the extra weight of a mtb on the road


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## Phaeton (1 Mar 2021)

🍿


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## sheddy (15 Mar 2021)

Some eFolders 2021 
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/a...-best-folding-e-bikes-from-1000-to-2000-2825?


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## keithmac (17 Mar 2021)

voyager said:


> virtually all e-assist use and external wheel sensor or and internal sensor .
> fooling a unit by using an incorrect ( smaller ) wheel size will increase the top speed but the speedo will be incorrect.
> I have seen someone fitting a 2-1 reduction on a rear hub to increase speed . I personally would fiddle the internal software and increase the cut off speed.
> 
> regards Emma



You'd need a larger wheel (greater distance traveled per revolution) if the limiter was based on wheel rotation speed.


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## Drago (18 Mar 2021)

Its getting harder now, and rightly so. Latest gen Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc can all detect dongles, and Suntour HESC+ is simply undonglable anyway. To change wheels size settings on the latest versions any of these now requires dealer software, which is strictly controlled and licenced, and anyone caught arsing about with it will suddenly find themselves stripped of the privilege. And qukte right too.


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## CXRAndy (18 Mar 2021)

Bosch gen4 have been reversed engineered to allow third party tuning. Yamaha motor too. I expect all current motors can be tuned for owners own requirements


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## keithmac (18 Mar 2021)

Thing with "tuning" them is it puts all ebikers in a bad light..


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## Pale Rider (18 Mar 2021)

Drago said:


> Its getting harder now, and rightly so. Latest gen Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc can all detect dongles, and Suntour HESC+ is simply undonglable anyway. To change wheels size settings on the latest versions any of these now requires dealer software, which is strictly controlled and licenced, and anyone caught arsing about with it will suddenly find themselves stripped of the privilege. And qukte right too.



The likes of Badass say their latest dongle will work on the latest Bosch motor.

I've also ridden a Suntour motored Carrera on which the restriction had been removed.

It was a bit clunky, full gas as soon as you turned the pedals and no in between, but it went very well, more pokey than a similarly de-restricted Bosch bike.


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## Drago (18 Mar 2021)

You can't so much remove the restriction on Suntour, as to completely re-engineer the controller to allow it. Its easier to bin the controller and start afresh.

In the case of Suntour, the motor itself is specifically designed for the 25kmh cut off, not a fast motor simply screwed down to the limit, and isn't good for a lot quicker regardless of what you do with the rest of the system.


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (28 Mar 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> The likes of Badass say their latest dongle will work on the latest Bosch motor.
> 
> I've also ridden a Suntour motored Carrera on which the restriction had been removed.
> 
> It was a bit clunky, full gas as soon as you turned the pedals and no in between, but it went very well, more pokey than a similarly de-restricted Bosch bike.


I put a badass on my active line plus, bike shop recommended to calibrate it first which he did.
The bike runs really well & smooth, getting about 65miles on a charge.
He said he has reduced the speed limit to 20mph for some customers 🤪, I’m happy with 25-28 though😬.


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## ericmark (30 May 2021)

I seem to be in the reverse, bought an e-bike second hand, and only after getting it noticed it says 350 watt on the hub. I found the display allows some adjustments by pressing + and - together and have altered it to show MPH instead of Km/h. Other wise untouched. 

It has 6 options for assistance, 0 is non, and 5 is maximum, setting to 1 the assistance seems to stop at around 4 MPH, but very little assistance given, at 2 however seems at low speed no difference in assistance to 5, it seem 3, 4 and 5 just change the point when assistance stops.

So whole idea of e-bike for me is to change from a push bike to pedal cycle. Without the motor I push the bike up the hills and free wheel down, seems no point having pedals they just bang ones shins when pushing it. Now I can pedal up the some hills, roads marked > I still have to push it on, and far too many roads marked > and >> around here.

It is a compromise, there are loads of pot holes, and I find suspension and large tyres help, it is less likely to cause a wobble with suspension. However that also makes the bike heavier. The same with gears, wife's e-bike has central motor so works through the gears, giving more help on hills, but only has 7 gears the front cog is a special belled design to go around the motor, but mine with hub motor can have 21 gears, so swings and roundabouts. 

But the instructions with my e-bike 33 pages of them are rather lacking, it does not say how to even swap from Km/h to MPH, or how to adjust the cable disc brakes, having on non electric mountain bike realised the disc brakes would only slow me down not stop me when descending Symonds Yat while on holiday some years ago I am aware of the problems with cable disc brakes, loads about how the quick release clamps work, but nothing about brake adjustment.

The manual is a nice shiny paper clearly printed in bulk, but seems to be an OCR copy, "teRRain" not Terrain for example, so making reading hard, and nothing about settings for the electric part.

I think designed for USA market, so likely does need some tweaking for UK, since private sale not really an option to return it, and no idea where it came from, internet hunt I can find similar but non exactly the same. Larger motors, or controller mounted in different place, or different display module. 

Don't get me wrong, it is a nice bike, and does what I want, and it seems the 17 codes can be set to make it street legal, reducing speed, power, and removing twist grip control. But every internet hunt seems to end up with USA sites, so I suspect many ride motor bikes thinking they are e-bikes.


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## Drago (30 May 2021)

Technically, if its a 350W motor it will never be street legal, even if it is set to deliver only 250W, in much the same way a 125cc motorbike can never be a moped even if it is resteicted to 30MPH. 

Dibble are now wising up and looking for the compliance plate or decal on the motor, so while the odds are still very much on the outside of getting fingered the risk is real.


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## Biker man (5 Sep 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> *A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*
> 
> *What is an ebike?*
> An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.
> ...


Hi I found that very interesting I used to have a hub ebike and loved that zooming off once you start peddling .The bike I have now is a mid drive with plenty of NMT for the hills around here and I love the hub gears I do miss the hub drive do you know what the highest NMT you can get on a hub bike regards.


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## Pale Rider (6 Sep 2021)

Biker man said:


> Hi I found that very interesting I used to have a hub ebike and loved that zooming off once you start peddling .The bike I have now is a mid drive with plenty of NMT for the hills around here and I love the hub gears I do miss the hub drive do you know what the highest NMT you can get on a hub bike regards.



I'm guessing by 'NMT' you mean torque, as measured in Newton Metres.

Hub motor are commonly rated for power in Watts.

UK road legal motors are nominally 250W.

Chinese retailer Blue My Sky sells higher rated motors, including an 800W one.

I could only guess at how much grunt that motor would provide, but I reckon it would feel great deal more pokey than a 250W motor.

https://bmsbattery.com/38-rear-driving


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## Biker man (6 Sep 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> I'm guessing by 'NMT' you mean torque, as measured in Newton Metres.
> 
> Hub motor are commonly rated for power in Watts.
> 
> ...


Hi yes a happy medium would be better.


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## Drago (3 Oct 2021)

Why? I'm 19 stone and a 250W, 600NM motor moves me about quite adequately.

If you want more, they are freely available legally and we've already provided you with a link to sellers in the other thread.


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## ericmark (3 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Why? I'm 19 stone and a 250W, 600NM motor moves me about quite adequately.


I have found the mid motor 250 watt also ample at 22 stone, however the hub motor seems to reach a point where it starts to lose torque, if I can maintain around 6 MPH it works well, but as the speed drops below that point the motor seems to reduce the torque delivered and quickly it reaches a point where it overloads and cuts out.

Lucky not too many roads where the hills do reduce my speed to under 6 MPH, but one of them is the last 1/2 mile to home, I have to stop at the grave yard to allow both me to catch breath and motor to cool before doing last little bit home.

Also at steep junctions the mid engine helps as soon as you start to pedal, but the hub needs one to do a few yards before it kicks in, lucky my bike has throttle enabled, bought second hand and to start with it was permitted, new bikes throttle must deactivate at 4 MPH.

I have tried using the throttle or walk assist on the mid engine bike, yes it works, but the control is not easy to use, need to push a button, and it seems torque is limited, as yet not tried it on a flat road to see if it would allow one to travel at 4 MPH without pedalling, but to assist at junctions not required anyway as motor kicks in faster.


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## Drago (3 Oct 2021)

That depends on the hub motor. Direct drive ones may well indeed struggle at low RPM outside of their efficient operating range, but many hub jobs are geared and do very nicely from low speeds.


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## ericmark (3 Oct 2021)

That may be the case, however I found my licence had run out as 70, and the DVLA not responding so not sure if I could drive, and found a second hand bike advertised just 1 km on the clock, so bought it to keep mobile until I got a new licence, had to be from some where I could reach, so very limited selection. 

It had been my intention to buy an e-bike, and since most over 20 kg and my bike rack is rated 40 kg wanted one which could fold and go in the boot, so only one bike (my wife's) on the back, folding also means anyone can rescue me if things go wrong. Tried a folding with small wheels and no thanks, so wanted ideal bike, folding, hydraulic disc brakes, mid motor, derailer gears. But they cost a fortune, so cable disc brakes, and hub motor and half the price of wife's bosch mid motor bike. 

It has worked well, I may get another in fullness of time, but not sure ebike is the way to go, too tempted not to use much effort, and switch off the motor and it's a heavy bike, no way can I keep up with my wife, also both ebikes have gearing which means 16 MPH is the limit, and with a belled front sprocket on mid engine and crank sensors on front sprocket with hub motor not that easy to change the sprockets so can exceed 16 MPH, so with non motor assist slower up hill and faster down hill so net speed about the same as wife's ebike, but with ebike I have no option but to turn on assistance as can't keep up with her without.


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## Biker man (3 Oct 2021)

ericmark said:


> I have found the mid motor 250 watt also ample at 22 stone, however the hub motor seems to reach a point where it starts to lose torque, if I can maintain around 6 MPH it works well, but as the speed drops below that point the motor seems to reduce the torque delivered and quickly it reaches a point where it overloads and cuts out.
> 
> Lucky not too many roads where the hills do reduce my speed to under 6 MPH, but one of them is the last 1/2 mile to home, I have to stop at the grave yard to allow both me to catch breath and motor to cool before doing last little bit home.
> 
> ...


Think you mean 60 NMT you would take off with 600 🤠


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## Biker man (5 Oct 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> *A guide to the types of ebikes currently available in the UK*
> 
> *What is an ebike?*
> An ebike is a bicycle with an electric motor to assist propulsion. The motor is powered by a rechargeable battery, and its operation is governed by a controller.
> ...


Thanks for that it was fantastic information well done .


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