# Spa Cycles



## Dave Davenport (5 Apr 2016)

We were in Harrogate last week and I took the opportunity to order a new set of wheels for my tourer. The guy there was a bit vague and wrote down my details etc. on a scrap of paper, didn't want a deposit or payment either. I was a bit dubious about actually getting them but they phoned yesterday for payment and they turned up today exactly as ordered (36 hole LX hubs, Sputnik rims, with heavy duty spokes on the drive side built by Dave Gall, £176 delivered).


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## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2016)

IME they're good people, and very helpful, but it seems they have all been on dour grumpiness training as part of the brand image.


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## Crackle (5 Apr 2016)

Glad to hear nothing has changed since I bought my bike there then


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## si_c (5 Apr 2016)

Only ever dealt with them on the phone. Everything has always been as advertised. 

I think the grumpy attitude is free, kinda like those odd chinese restauraunts. It is Yorkshire after all...


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## Dogtrousers (5 Apr 2016)

My favourite was the guy explaining that they'd left some spacers on top of the bars rather than cutting the steerer right down "so you can raise them up a bit when your back goes". I'll swear I saw the Grim Reaper sitting in the workshop at the back drinking a cup of tea.


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## e-rider (5 Apr 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> We were in Harrogate last week and I took the opportunity to order a new set of wheels for my tourer. The guy there was a bit vague and wrote down my details etc. on a scrap of paper, didn't want a deposit or payment either. I was a bit dubious about actually getting them but they phoned yesterday for payment and they turned up today exactly as ordered (36 hole LX hubs, Sputnik rims, with heavy duty spokes on the drive side built by Dave Gall, £176 delivered).


they are not still building with plain gauge spokes on the drive side are they? The latest Dinosaur technology from Spa Cycles


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## Prometheus (5 Apr 2016)

It's nice to know some things in life are rock solid and don't change!
My wheel are fine so far, stood up to all the riggers that Yorkshire can throw
even the Tea.


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## slowmotion (5 Apr 2016)

I bought a few chainrings from them as well as my most recent bike. Good people and wonderfully "old school".


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## biggs682 (5 Apr 2016)

only ever used them online for some koolstop pads very good service


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## Pale Rider (5 Apr 2016)

e-rider said:


> they are not still building with plain gauge spokes on the drive side are they? The latest Dinosaur technology from Spa Cycles



Looks like they are: "...built using double butted spokes throughout except on the driveside rear where plain gauge are utilized for strength..."

Not that I would want to be the man to tell Spa their wheels weren't properly built.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s178p2235


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## classic33 (6 Apr 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> My favourite was the guy explaining that they'd left some spacers on top of the bars rather than cutting the steerer right down "so you can raise them up a bit when your back goes".* I'll swear I saw the Grim Reaper sitting in the workshop at the back drinking a cup of tea*.


Wasn't me!
I was elsewhere at the time.


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## slowmotion (6 Apr 2016)

Here's the absolute classic clip. No arm-waving, look-at-me histrionics. Just simple instructions.
Fantastic!
[media]
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
[/media]


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## Incontinentia Buttocks (6 Apr 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Here's the absolute classic clip. No arm-waving, look-at-me histrionics. Just simple instructions.
> Fantastic!
> [media]
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
> [/media]



Straps, who'd have thought! That man is a genius, and from now on I'm keeping zip ties in my bag.


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## slowmotion (6 Apr 2016)

Incontinentia Buttocks said:


> Straps, who'd have thought! That man is a genius, and from now on I'm keeping zip ties in my bag.


I followed that clip religiously with my first Marathon Pluses. I think I used about fifteen releasable cable ties for the job.

There was still blood oozing out from under both thumbnails at the end of the prolonged struggle. I didn't have the knack.


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## growingvegetables (6 Apr 2016)

A trick worth mastering. If you're a teacher who cycles into school, YOU repair kids' punctures. And doing it that way, just with your hands, impresses the sulkiest 14 year old.


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## raleighnut (6 Apr 2016)

e-rider said:


> they are not still building with plain gauge spokes on the drive side are they? The latest Dinosaur technology from Spa Cycles


What's wrong with that combination, I got John to build me a rear wheel in that style after a tip on 'Sheldon'. As I understood it though it was more to do with keeping the tension of a loaded wheel even to prevent brake 'rub' ,and believe me my Ridgeback used to get very heavily laden on jaunts up to the Peak District (at the time I used to establish a 'base camp' up there and then travel off in daily 'loops')
It would have been easier to transport everything up there by car but I don't use one of those and I do like a bit of 'luxury' in the tent, little things like a glass for drinking my Single Malt from cos it doesn't taste 'right' drinking it from a plastic vessel. and only hooligans neck it straight from the bottle.

I'd reckon the total weight of me, the bike and the luggage would have been around the 150Kg mark so assuming a 40/60 split for the weight then the back wheel would have been carrying 90Kg for the 70 miles or so there some of which was on trails (the 'Cloud' trail up to Derby and then the Tissington/High Peak from Ashbourne)
Never broke a spoke or 'buckled' a wheel doing that 2 or 3 times a year for 7/8 years and the wheels are still going strong.


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## Spoked Wheels (6 Apr 2016)

Incontinentia Buttocks said:


> Straps, who'd have thought! That man is a genius, and from now on I'm keeping zip ties in my bag.



I find two lengths of 23C inner tube work better that the toe straps I have, on Marathon Plus tyres.... I don't think zip ties would be very good for this task, unless that's the only thing you have


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## e-rider (6 Apr 2016)

raleighnut said:


> What's wrong with that combination, I got John to build me a rear wheel in that style after a tip on 'Sheldon'. As I understood it though it was more to do with keeping the tension of a loaded wheel even to prevent brake 'rub' ,and believe me my Ridgeback used to get very heavily laden on jaunts up to the Peak District (at the time I used to establish a 'base camp' up there and then travel off in daily 'loops')
> It would have been easier to transport everything up there by car but I don't use one of those and I do like a bit of 'luxury' in the tent, little things like a glass for drinking my Single Malt from cos it doesn't taste 'right' drinking it from a plastic vessel. and only hooligans neck it straight from the bottle.
> 
> I'd reckon the total weight of me, the bike and the luggage would have been around the 150Kg mark so assuming a 40/60 split for the weight then the back wheel would have been carrying 90Kg for the 70 miles or so there some of which was on trails (the 'Cloud' trail up to Derby and then the Tissington/High Peak from Ashbourne)
> Never broke a spoke or 'buckled' a wheel doing that 2 or 3 times a year for 7/8 years and the wheels are still going strong.


plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes, or I should say plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes in a wheel. On their own they are stronger (simple physics) which is why such a design would have been conjured up by Spa in the first place. However, how spokes behave in a wheel is more complicated, and in simple terms DB spokes dissipate forces more effectively making them less likely to fail.


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## raleighnut (6 Apr 2016)

e-rider said:


> plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes, or I should say plain gauge spokes are not stronger than DB spokes in a wheel. On their own they are stronger (simple physics) which is why such a design would have been conjured up by Spa in the first place. However, how spokes behave in a wheel is more complicated, and in simple terms DB spokes dissipate forces more effectively making them less likely to fail.


I found the article which explains why it is done, it is from Sheldon Brown but the article itself was written by John Allen, it's nothing to do with strength but more with tension/stretch.

An elegant trick to build a stronger rear wheel is to use thicker spokes on the right side than on the left side. Spokes with a 2mm shaft on the right and with a 1.6 mm shaft on the left balance nicely; with this combination, spokes on both sides ring at approximately the same pitch, indicating that they are both carrying optimum tension.

You may ask why this approach makes a better wheel than using thicker spokes on both sides. After all, thick left-side spokes would be stronger. They would also at the same tension as the lighter spokes would, though at a lower musical pitch. But because they elongate less, thick spokes on the left actually go slack and give up control of the rim under a lighter weight load; and even when the load is not so great that they go slack, the rim warps to one side at the bottom of the wheel where it bears weight, due to the unequal lateral component of stiffness of the right-side and left-side spokes. The reason that thinner spokes on the left work better and last longer is that they are stretched by the same amount and have the same stiffness against lateral (side-to-side) motion of the rim as the thicker spokes on the right.

If you need instruction in wheelbuilding, read Sheldon Brown's article, on this Web site, which is as good as anything I've ever read on the subject.


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## Moodyman (6 Apr 2016)

Spa are brill. I've heard of them sending a product out first and asking for payment by return cheque.

The guy in the M+ video is Colin - the now retired master wheel builder. He regularly posts on the CTC forum and is an adherent of the Jobs Brandt wheel building school. 

He built me some wheels about 8 years ago and they are as true as the day I bought them. And, I ain't light - 120kg or thereabouts.


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## Trickedem (6 Apr 2016)

I've got SPA wheels on my Van Nich and my Dawes Ultra Galaxy. Thousands of miles and still going strong. Say what you like, but I think their theory works.


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## Pale Rider (7 Apr 2016)

I rate Spa.

I bought my Brompton from them from their old shop, and on my most recent visit for a possible gravel bike purchase they were very helpful.

"Test ride what you like for as long as you like" was about the strength of it - I can't think of another shop that offers that.

They are famously grumpy, sometimes rude - I had to bite my lip a couple of times.

But they are so good at what they do, it's worth putting up with their foibles.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Apr 2016)

When I bought my bike from them I asked if I could supply my own wheels, as I had a newly built pair on my current bike. They were happy to do this, but the unwritten small print was the condition that they got to insult my wheels. I handed them over to a storm of tooth sucking and tutting. "ooh dear, who built this for you then?". Everything was wrong with them, spokes, nipples, spoke tension and all, although he had to grudgingly admit that they were, broadly speaking, round-ish.


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## Svendo (7 Apr 2016)

I once ordered some chainring spacers online as I was having chain-line issues. Chap rang up for a chat about it before he sent them to check I knew what I was doing and was getting the right thing! Don't get that with Wiggle Chain Reaction etc.


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## Pale Rider (9 Apr 2016)

I've fancied giving a leather saddle a try for a while, so called in to Spa yesterday to have a look at their own brand range.

The general touring use Nidd is the one for me, Spa number it as SO 17 - a hint to those who might have been looking at another brand.

The assistant gave me a few care and maintenance tips - I hadn't grasped the tensioner bolt is only used if the saddle spreads in use, which it might never do.

I was also offered a test on a bike fitted with a Nidd.

No fuss or drama, just 'take it for a ride'.

I had a quick look at the shiny new bikes while I was in, the Sabbaths really look the part.

Needless to say, I bought the Nidd.

Fitted it, but not been for a ride yet.

It feels rock hard - I think a love or hate relationship is about to start.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s204p2667


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## GuyBoden (9 Apr 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> I've fancied giving a leather saddle a try for a while, so called in to Spa yesterday to have a look at their own brand range.
> 
> The general touring use Nidd is the one for me, Spa number it as SO 17 - a hint to those who might have been looking at another brand.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, I've been interested in Spa Nidd leather saddle. 

Could I ask a few questions:

1.) Is the saddle flat or convex across the width 168mm where the sit bones go?

2.) Is the material that's bonded underneath the saddle waterproof?


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## Pale Rider (9 Apr 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> Thanks for the info, I've been interested in Spa Nidd leather saddle.
> 
> Could I ask a few questions:
> 
> ...



A picture is worth a thousand words, although as the ruddy thing is black a pic might not be so instructive in this case.

Looks slightly convex at the rear, although I suppose a limited amount of reshaping may occur in use.

It appears to be one piece of thick leather, so I don't think there is anything bonded to the underside.

The instructions sensibly say don't leave it in heavy rain 'for long'.

Water will tend to run off the top surface, rather than soak in.

Spa include a small pot of cream to rub in, although I've not reached that advanced stage of leather saddle use yet.

The man in the shop said putting the cream on while playing a hair dryer on the saddle will speed the soaking in process.

Alternatively, it needs to be left at least overnight.

I might have a play with that tomorrow evening, after which I won't be using the bike for a couple of days.


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## GuyBoden (10 Apr 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> A picture is worth a thousand words, although as the ruddy thing is black a pic might not be so instructive in this case.
> 
> Looks slightly convex at the rear, although I suppose a limited amount of reshaping may occur in use.
> 
> ...



Many thanks, the saddle looks good, it does look slightly convex, I wonder if it flattens when you sit on it. 
Thanks again for the info, it will be interesting to hear how you get on with the saddle.


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## confusedcyclist (17 Jan 2017)

Dave @ Spa Cycles has just done me a cracking set of Sputniks/XTs for my new Surly Disc Trucker build, I was going to build my own wheels but after mucking up the hub/rim measurements *twice *(not sure what happened there, I have built a few wheels in my time!) I got desperate and ordered a hand built wheelset. The Spa cycles website had some odd combinations of rims/spokes counts and hubs. I was tired when I made the order and didn't think much of ordering 32 spoke TOURING wheels with black hubs and silver rims... 

Thankfully Dave gave me a call the following morning to suggest I opt for 36 spokes on the rear and to swap out the silver rims for black so it looked better. Top service! If you're reading this Dave and co, thanks very much for a job well done!


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## iandg (17 Jan 2017)

I use Spa regularly for various bits and bobs - bought my cross-check from there and had them build the wheels for it too. Wheels in my audax/tourer are from Spa too. 

I like the fact you can phone and 'ask' before buying and get good advice. Good delivery to the Outer Herbrides too (they phoned me prior to my last wheel delivery to say that they thought their usual courier service was over-priced and would I like them to use parcel force instead)


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## Blue Hills (17 Jan 2017)

I've got some Spa Sputniks as well.

Despite a certain reputation for grumpiness they appear/appeared to have in certain places I well remember them talking me through things as I asked a few sensible/ignorant questions.

No hard sell.

The wheels have been great.

Built by Colin, not Dave.

Do let us know how you get on with yours confused.


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## Pale Rider (17 Jan 2017)

With Spa it can be a case of the Spa way or the highway.

If you take their good advice, all will be well.

But I think Spa can lock horns with a customer who wants something built that the touring bicycle sages at Spa don't approve of.


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## ACS (17 Jan 2017)

I purchased an Audax Ti from Spa in 2012 and have to admit the entire experience was a positive one. Spoke to them on the phone about a test ride and on the strength of that conversation I made an appointment and drove down to Harrogate from NE Scotland.

I did not find the staff anything but helpful, test bike was ready, I was given a suggested route to follow and left to my own devices. After a 15 mile test ride I returned and asked if I could take out the steel version. No problem, 15 minutes later I was away.

After a couple of miles I decided the Audax Ti was the way to go. On returning I had a further discussion about frame size, spec etc and arranged for the bike to couriered up to me. This was the only sticking point as they wanted me to return for a fit "because it was part of the service". Sadly distance and work commitments prevented me from travelling. At the time they recommended a saddle upgrade to a B17, which I decline. I later purchased one. Should have listened as they offered me a deal and I would have saved a little.

The bike? I love it.


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## Blue Hills (17 Jan 2017)

What's involved in a Spa fitting? Is it charged for? Does it involve very individual theories about bike sizing? Involving plumb lines or such? Am a bit wary of these.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Jan 2017)

I spent over half a day at Spa choosing my bike. Most of the time was spent riding various bikes. No plumblines.


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## Blue Hills (18 Jan 2017)

Sounds great from all I have read upthread. A few years ago I think I had the idea that they really only catered for folk who knew EXACTLY what they wanted, particularly with regard to sizing. Pretty sure that if I knew then what I know now I would have headed their way rather than to Hewitt. Have ordered stuff from them a few times, well pleased, plan to pedal over to their shop sometime.


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## postman (24 Jan 2017)

Spa a wonderful,wonderful shop.They had me riding up and down the street.Then they set up the bars for me.I had just had a hernia op.That bike was beautiful.Dawes Super Galaxy.64cm frame.I had to let it go.It went to a chap in London.He sent me a fantastic e mail.Thanking me for a superb beautiful bike.


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## Milkfloat (24 Jan 2017)

Blue Hills said:


> A few years ago I think I had the idea that they really only catered for folk who knew EXACTLY what they wanted, particularly with regard to sizing.



I always thought that if you knew exactly what you wanted, then they would bluntly tell you that you are wrong, and most often they would be correct.


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## Moodyman (25 Jan 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> I always thought that if you knew exactly what you wanted, then they would bluntly tell you that you are wrong, and most often they would be correct.



Indeed. That is exactly my experience.


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## oldfatfool (26 Jan 2017)

I bought my Brookes saddle from them, it was like shopping at a Oleanda's with hundreds of dusty old boxes containing various models of saddle.


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## MontyVeda (26 Jan 2017)

I bought a set of wheels from them about three or four years ago... managed to pop the back rim after 12 months due to me not noticing one of my rear brake blocks had worn down so much it was grinding the rim. Front wheel is still going strong. Will definitely be buying my next set from them.


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## steveindenmark (26 Jan 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> With Spa it can be a case of the Spa way or the highway.
> 
> If you take their good advice, all will be well.
> 
> But I think Spa can lock horns with a customer who wants something built that the touring bicycle sages at Spa don't approve of.



I can understand that. I build sails for yachts and would rather turn somebody away than put my name to a sail that will be second rate.


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## Gixxerman (26 Jan 2017)

Milkfloat said:


> I always thought that if you knew exactly what you wanted, then they would bluntly tell you that you are wrong, and most often they would be correct.


Or as they might say it:-
"ah tek it tha thinks tha naws best then mayert?"


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## Dogtrousers (30 Jan 2017)

I was just on their website and I saw that the model that I have (steel Audax) is reduced to £850

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p2827/SPA-CYCLES-Steel-Audax-(SRAM)

A bargain, I'd say.


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## Pale Rider (30 Jan 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I was just on their website and I saw that the model that I have (steel Audax) is reduced to £850
> 
> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p2827/SPA-CYCLES-Steel-Audax-(SRAM)
> 
> A bargain, I'd say.



Tend to agree, not least because if you rocked up to the premises you would get Spa's customisation service for internet 'bike in a box' prices.

By customisation I mean a willingness - generally - to swap components, tinker with the gearing and the like.

Spa also has a good stock of touring/audax accessories which not many general bike shops can match.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Jan 2017)

btw my steel Audax cost me a bit over £1,000 (complicated cos I fiddled about with options) about three and a half years ago. And I was happy at that price (although I wouldn't buy another SRAM GXP BB again)


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## Aravis (1 Feb 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I was just on their website and I saw that the model that I have (steel Audax) is reduced to £850
> 
> http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p2827/SPA-CYCLES-Steel-Audax-(SRAM)
> 
> A bargain, I'd say.


That does look like good value, to say the least. Not sure I could live with black though.

I've had my eye on the 631 tourer in blue for a while. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 631 and 725 anyway, and I've never had a bike that shade of blue. But it wouldn't really do anything my current bike doesn't. It's a vibrant red, which always gets admiration when I'm in any sort of group (rarely). And it's aluminium, allowing me a bit of anti-snobbery which I quite enjoy.

But the bluey does look very nice, and I'm going to be a long time dead.


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## jay clock (20 Nov 2017)

@Dave Davenport I have just ordered the same wheels. 36 back, 32 front. For my trip across America www.usacyle2018.com

Arrived today

Any feedback?

Jay


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## Dave Davenport (20 Nov 2017)

jay clock said:


> @Dave Davenport I have just ordered the same wheels. 36 back, 32 front. For my trip across America www.usacyle2018.com
> 
> Arrived today
> 
> ...


Used them for two, month long heavily loaded trips and general day to day stuff for about 18 months now. No problems, they still run true and I haven't had to touch them.


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## jay clock (20 Nov 2017)

Dave Davenport said:


> Used them for two, month long heavily loaded trips and general day to day stuff for about 18 months now. No problems, they still run true and I haven't had to touch them.


that all sounds wonderful and the reason I went for them. Will be testing them soon!


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## Blue Hills (20 Nov 2017)

I've got two Rigida Sputnik wheels built by Spa.

Great.

A world away from the pringles that came with my Speed Pro.


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## Dave 123 (22 Nov 2017)

My Spa Nidd saddle broke the other week. The bracket that holds the adjuster screw at the front snapped.
I rang them up and spoke to a lad called Tom. I explained what had happened, and he asked me to send a picture.
He was back on the phone in 2 minutes saying the saddle had failed somehow.
There was a no quibble 'send it back, we'll give you a new one'

2 days later I had a new saddle (to break in!)


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