# Cyclist fatality Southwark bridge today, lorry collision.



## spindrift (18 Sep 2008)

Anyone heard anything please? The SOCO tent is up, a colleague said the cyclist was killed, nothing online yet.

WTF is it with lorries in London?


----------



## LOGAN 5 (18 Sep 2008)

Awful.

I was stopped "behind" a left turning lorry this morning when a fast rider comes up past me and I honestly thought he was going to jump on the inside of the lorry but thought better of it. Crikes!

Condolences to his family.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (18 Sep 2008)

spindrift said:


> Anyone heard anything please? The SOCO tent is up, a colleague said the cyclist was killed, nothing online yet.
> 
> *WTF is it with lorries in London*?



So by your own admission, you know nothing of this regrettable incident (at least, I assume that's why you've posted asking for information), yet you're already blaming the lorry driver. Perhaps it was the driver's fault and perhaps it wasn't, but let's not jump to conclusions before we actually know anything, eh?


----------



## spindrift (18 Sep 2008)

Are tipper lorries paid per load? They are terrible drivers, ranking alongside scaffolding lorry drivers IMO.

That's not to prejudge this awful event.


----------



## spindrift (18 Sep 2008)

_yet you're already blaming the lorry driver._ 

Errr, when? I'm asking for information and highlighting the fact that lorries account for a disproportionate amount of cycling fatalities. Please don't attack me for summat I haven't said, not on a thread like this.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (18 Sep 2008)

Yes, tipper drivers are paid by the load. No one likes them, even other lorry drivers.


----------



## Blackandblue (18 Sep 2008)

Really depressing. Is this the worst accident black spot for cycling fatalities in London? It seems like it to me. Isn't there some lesson here for the road planners?


----------



## Rhythm Thief (18 Sep 2008)

spindrift said:


> _yet you're already blaming the lorry driver._
> 
> Errr, when?



Well, the phrase "WTF is it with lorries in London?" seems to me to be an indication of how you feel about this one. However, if I've read too much into it, I apologise.


----------



## spindrift (18 Sep 2008)

_Is this the worst accident black spot for cycling fatalities in London?_ 

yes, London's bridges have awful RTA stats.

I've no idea why, although in a crowded, congested city drivers may see an horizon for the first time and put their foot down.

My colleague says it was on the right hand side, northbound.


----------



## bryce (18 Sep 2008)

No one is blaming anyone - I thought it was a observation that lorries are usually involved in cyclist fatalities in London.

I used to cycle that route to Canary Wharf - huge tippers would come up from Elephant, accross Southwark bridge then right onto the Highway, often two at a time.

Does anyone know how the accident might have happened?


----------



## dondare (18 Sep 2008)

I'll blame the lorry driver without knowing anything more about this specific accident.


----------



## joebe (18 Sep 2008)

spindrift said:


> _
> 
> My colleague says it was on the right hand side, northbound._


_

Given the whole of upper Thames Street was closed, was it on the corner? I.e. turning left off UTS on tho the bridge. There are currently roadworks there at the moment and it's down to 1 narrow lane at the lights.

Horrible news_


----------



## Proto (18 Sep 2008)

Rhythm Thief said:


> Yes, tipper drivers are paid by the load. No one likes them, even other lorry drivers.



Have to disagree with this. 

On my 5 mile commute on town and rural roads I'm often passed byt tipper trucks owned by a comapny Graham Churchill Ltd. I'll often see three a day, sometimes more. Not once have I felt threatened, intimidated or frightened by them. I've been so impressed by their skills, patience and courtesy I phoned up their transport manager to pass on my thanks. To say she was delighted to hear what I had to say is an understatement.

Graham Churchill Ltd


----------



## Jake (18 Sep 2008)

Wish i was on the bike today with camera. There was a taxi driver shouting at a pedestrian because she was walking across the road with the green man showing. He thought he could just drive through the crowd of people legally & safely crossing the road becuase he was already through the junction, obvisouly went through on red. If that makes sense? Glad their cabs are blowing up lol


----------



## spindrift (18 Sep 2008)

Another fatality in kensington- another cyclist, according to news desk Evening standard.


----------



## Flyingfox (18 Sep 2008)

joebe said:


> Given the whole of upper Thames Street was closed, was it on the corner? I.e. turning left off UTS on tho the bridge. There are currently roadworks there at the moment and it's down to 1 narrow lane at the lights.
> 
> Horrible news



The accident wasn't on Southwark Bridge, but on the Eastbound carriageway on Upper Thames Street, just before Dowgate Hill. I actually decided to cycle that way this morning, and had to divert onto a side street due to the accident. Apparently it was a female cyclist and a site lorry that were involved. One policeman said she had tried to go between two lorries, but there was only one lorry parked at the scene.

Just awful.


----------



## sternwood (18 Sep 2008)

Flyingfox said:


> The accident wasn't on Southwark Bridge, but on the Eastbound carriageway on Upper Thames Street, just before Dowgate Hill. I actually decided to cycle that way this morning, and had to divert onto a side street due to the accident. Apparently it was a female cyclist and a site lorry that were involved. One policeman said she had tried to go between two lorries, but there was only one lorry parked at the scene.
> 
> Just awful.




Oh, thanks fox.


----------



## Origamist (18 Sep 2008)

Flyingfox said:


> The accident wasn't on Southwark Bridge, but on the Eastbound carriageway on Upper Thames Street, just before Dowgate Hill. I actually decided to cycle that way this morning, and had to divert onto a side street due to the accident. Apparently it was a female cyclist and a site lorry that were involved. One policeman said she had tried to go between two lorries, but there was only one lorry parked at the scene.
> 
> Just awful.




According to City of London Police, a 40 year old male died at 07.20 on Upper Thames St this morning.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/cyclist-killed-by-lorry-upper-thames-street#comment


----------



## sternwood (18 Sep 2008)

8th London cyclist to have died as the result of a collision with a HGV/LGV/lorry in 2008.


----------



## sternwood (18 Sep 2008)

Hiya.I work oposite where this tragic fatality occured this morning.It was a man not a lady.Our cctv caught the accident and according to the health and safety officer who saw the footage there were two lorrys following one another .The cyclist slighty swerved(not out of the bike lane) and basicly the lorry "hovered" him up and he come out the back.the lorry behind stopped.I cycle here but do not use this stretch on upper thames street of bike lane.They had roadworks all the way along ,also motorbikes love to use the bike lane.(i have rang the police nearly every week about this). 
Everyone here feels very sad for the mans family ...this is the second death near ny building ( the other being Sebastian in 2003 on the corner of southwark bridge). 
Hopefully something will be done to make this road safer for EVERYONE.


http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12586757&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Another one? 

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/another-cyclist-killed-by-lorry-kensington-high-street


----------



## Origamist (18 Sep 2008)

spindrift said:


> Another fatality in kensington- another cyclist, according to news desk Evening standard.



Thankfully, this does not appear to be a fatality:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...clist+hit+by+lorry+as+another+dies/article.do


----------



## fossyant (18 Sep 2008)

Blooming London - loads of bad accidents - rats in cages I say - far too busy !!!


----------



## hackbike 6 (18 Sep 2008)

Southwark Bridge Roadworks are a mess,there always seems to be lots of work going on and Algate East this morning was a nightmare,it's all changed there.


----------



## jmaccyd (18 Sep 2008)

Got caught in the traffic today and realised very quickly that it was a fatality. Sad news, and at the same spot another cyclist (I believe) was killed a few years ago


----------



## domtyler (26 Sep 2008)

Just got this in my inbox, cascaded out to the whole of our London office:


From: CTAlerts@city-of-london.pnn.police.uk [mailto:CTAlerts@city-of-london.pnn.police.uk] 
Sent: 25 September 2008 15:51
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: iModus Message (High Priority, CT Email) - Road Collision - Appeal for witnesses


Road Collision - Thursday 18 September 2008





At approximately 7.20am on Thursday 18 September on Upper Thames Street at the junction with Queen Street, a death occurred as a result of a collision between a lorry and a pedal cyclist.

Did you see or hear anything?

Please contact the City of London Police with any information you may have. Call 020 7601 2222 and ask for the Roads Policing Unit.



Message Url: https://www.imodus.com/messagedetail.aspx?messageid=D0P
Message Id: D0P


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

I assume because with most motorvehicle vs cyclist collisions, the cyclist is to blame in only 17% of them.


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

I see they put the accident boards up at Southwark Bridge and also Blackfriars Bridge.


----------



## Jake (30 Sep 2008)

yeah some some boards there on the north side last thurs


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

User3143 said:


> yeah but a truck and cyclist collision what % is that
> 
> Just seems that a lot of people are jumping on the ''blame the lorry'' bandwagon. Just wanted to know why.



We don't know, and it's likely to be a higher proportion of cyclists to blame given that most HGV drivers are of much better quality than car drivers. My guess is that even then the HGV driver will still be to blame in more than half of this sort of collision.


----------



## Jake (30 Sep 2008)

i don;t know if some cyclists understand how a lorry drives, the way it has to tackle a corner, the room and distance they need. Maybe this is becuaes cyclists don't encounter them much. cyclists should be more aware for sure. I am in no way saying some aren't and that a percentage of the crashes are caused by lorry drivers, and they should be aware of us too


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

Well, I'm sure that some cyclists are to blame for this sort of accident through bad riding, but I also think it's quite logical to assume it's rather more likely to be the lorry driver's fault given the stats.

Who brings the danger to this situation, and who thus has much much more responsibility to take care? It's not as though the cyclist is likely to kill a lorry driver in a collision.


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

Blind spots.


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

Or aggressive drivers like this one?

Mayfair plant and tool hire



hackbike 6 said:


> Blind spots.



Surely that's a bit disingenuous? Lorrys kill cyclists more than anything else in London, the drivers can't see, and sometimes don't look properly or care. It seems to me that lorry drivers are the ones that most need to change their actions.


----------



## Jake (30 Sep 2008)

we've all seen some of the way some of our cycling brothes and sisters use the roads so not all is the big 20ton lorrys fault. like a car driver, you have to read the road ahead and that includes possible dangers. And if your driving any motorised veichle in town, drivers should be aware. oh i'm bored.


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

Jake said:


> we've all seen some of the way some of our cycling brothes and sisters use the roads so not all is the big 20ton lorrys fault. like a car driver, you have to read the road ahead and that includes possible dangers. And if your driving any motorised veichle in town, drivers should be aware. oh i'm bored.



How is this any different to what I wrote above? Are you trying to say it's more likely to be the cyclist's fault?


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

What Jake said.....I had tended to scoot up the Left Hand side of lorries many times but with all these accidents I tend not to now.Ok I can time it and generally get it right but one cock up could have put me in trouble.I tend to hang back in view of his mirrors.Must admit some lorries are aggressive when they are behind you cycling down from Tower Gateway.

No im not trying to say it's the cyclists (all the time) fault but I have done a few dodgy undertakes in my time and I have seen others doing it as well.


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

Palm back, right arm out, with a pushing backwards motion. It seemed to work in stopping his overtake, and in annoying him, given the finger you can see in the video.

Jake, you might like to read this article Buffalo Bill wrote:
http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/do-something-but-dont-blame-the-victim


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

Depends.


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

User3143 said:


> Believe me you would, the unit alone weighs almost 8 tonnes. It just ain't worth it.



Depends on the circumstances.

Anyway as I said I may have done it in the past but I don't think it's clever and I am aware of the lorry's blind spots that I decided to be more careful and take less chances.


----------



## BentMikey (30 Sep 2008)

User3143 said:


> Hmmhttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm



The problem being that hardly anyone knows what the proper slowing down / stopping signal is. Also, I was not intending to slow down or stop, I intended only to discourage him from overtaking me when there wasn't space to do so. Perhaps you could tell us all the proper handsignal for that? Kenya coffee tin shake? LOLOL!

In my experience, the pushing back with palm faced back is far more effective, and if you search you'll see it recommended by quite a few other cyclists as being very effective in just this sort of situation.


----------



## hackbike 6 (30 Sep 2008)

*Kenya coffee tin shake? LOLOL*

You mean the Gareth Hunt coffee commercial?


----------



## hackbike 6 (1 Oct 2008)

Re-read my last post and stop lecturing me.


----------



## Riding in Circles (1 Oct 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Or aggressive drivers like this one?
> 
> Mayfair plant and tool hire



Are you roller blading in this one?


----------



## BentMikey (1 Oct 2008)

Catrike UK said:


> Are you roller blading in this one?



Errr... No. On my fixed upright.


----------



## Riding in Circles (1 Oct 2008)

BentMikey said:


> Errr... No. On my fixed upright.



It just looked like a foot appeared when you turned back round, maybe it was a spare.


----------



## hackbike 6 (1 Oct 2008)

User3143 said:


> just making sure



Fair enough,i know you mean well but after 28 years of commuting if i dont know it now i shouldn't be out there.;-)


----------



## Jake (2 Oct 2008)

been sent this:

Deadly September

Monday 8th
Lisa Pontecorvo, 64, was killed in collision with a Mercedes concrete
mixer on a Holloway Road junction in Islington at 5.30pm.

Thursday 18th
Nick Wright, a 40-year-old father-of-two, died after a morning collision
with a truck as he cycled to work along Upper Thames Street in the City.

Thursday 18th
Later that day at around 8.30pm Graham Thwaites, 51, was killed in
Orpington after colliding with a blue Mitsubishi Shogun at a junction.

Wednesday 24th
Wan-Chen McGuiness, a 31-year-old woman, was killed as a lorry made a
left turn in Holborn at around 6.30 in the morning at a junction between
Southampton Row and Vernon Place.


----------



## BentMikey (2 Oct 2008)

I would expect that there have been more cyclist deaths than that in an average month?


----------



## Origamist (2 Oct 2008)

BentMikey said:


> I would expect that there have been more cyclist deaths than that in an average month?



At current levels, there are on average 11 or 12 cyclist fatalites a month - the data above relates to London and one home county and is therefore (sadly) not representative of the country as a whole.


----------



## hackbike 666 (22 Mar 2009)

Accident today apparently.Cycled to work today but avoided Lower/Upper Thames street and Southwark Bridge due to the fact that the roadworks are atrocious and make the route hazardous for cyclists.(Also the road is full of potholes due to the same lorries bombarding the same every day)The roadworks begin just before Prescott Street Aldwych making a pinch point there.I have diverted via Bank for the last two days.I missed a motorcyclist work colleague apparently who had been assisting a pedestrian who had been hit by a lorry while he was walking on the pavement apparently.Apparently the lorry bounced up but apart from that,that's all I know.


----------



## PBancroft (23 Mar 2009)

I would be interested to see a list of all fatal "accidents" involving and when and how they occurred.

I think that they would make very powerful reading for the chaps and chapesses at the dft.


----------

