# Critique my kit list please?



## jay clock (18 Jan 2008)

I am off to NZ in 8 days time for a 3 week camping tour. I have camped for a couple of one nighters (feeble but true) and have done 5 one week tours staying in hotels. Bike is a new Koga Miyata World Traveller to replace my trad British 531 tourer.

Sorry for the long list pasted in below. I have packed it all in my four new Ortlieb panniers (front and rear backrollers) Plus an Ortlieb dry bag for the tent and ground sheet. The rear panniers weigh 10kg. the front 4.9kg and the dry bag 3.3kg. There are a few extra things in there not listed below (some freeze dried food for emergencies), and one or two of the things are not in yet, but the weight will be around a total of 18-19kg (max 20kg) based on what I currently have listed. For the weigh-in I kept out the one set of cycling clothes I will be wearing, plus helmet etc. I also have a small 3 litre bar bag but that is really just for essentials (wallet, camera etc). All kit such as sleeping and cooking is lightweight. 

Weather should be like a good UK summer (south!) - ie 22-27deg day, 15-16 at night, quite possible some rain. I am risking SPD sandals for all weather.

Any views on 

a) things missing
 excess items (ie what the f*** you taking that for)
c) overall weight - how does it compare??

Many thanks!

Jay
ps I will also post on bikereadar...not been there much lately

bottles
lights

Sleeping bag
Thermarest
Pillow
Silk liner
Tent
groundsheet

Gas stove
lighter
Pans
Spatula, plate, cutlery, bowl, cup
food tubs + bottles
coffee
washup liq
sponge
swiss penknife

cycling shirt short sleeves
baggy shorts lycra
triathlon shorts
SPD sandals
bandana

Short fingered gloves
Helmet
arm and leg warmers
Buff
sunglasses
sunglasses case
ultralight jacket
Goretex jacket

camera
camera charger
tripod
phone charger
tikka headlamp
ipod
ipod charger
power adapter

shower gel
shampoo
hand gel
hand cream
razor
tooth brush
tooth paste
floss
shaving gel
nurofen
deo
nail clippers
suncream P20
lipsalve
wetwipes
tissues
Washing liquid
mozzie
plasters/first aid
sewing kit
flannel/sponge

rough guide
NZ map

Compass/thermomter
coat hangers
pegs
notebook

light fleece
ordinary socks
pants
trousers
t shirt
base layer
ordinary shorts
ordinary shoes
towel
baseball cap

wallet
passport
mobiles
Bum bag
goggles
eye mask
ear plugs
notebook and pen

cable ties
lock
spokes
spare cleats/bolts
multitool
inner tube
puncture kit
chaintool
pedal spanner
cassette tool
fake leatherman
lubricant
latex gloves
bungees/straps
spare pads
spare cables
pepper spray


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## Creamcrackered (18 Jan 2008)

Looks pretty good to me.

Pillow? I just use my clothes.
Coat hangers? I'd just take a length of light line or guyrope you can use as clothes line.

Things that I take that aren't on your list:
-Sun hat for when you don't want to wear your helmet. 
-A tea towel, useful as a general wipe. 
- A collapsible bucket (nice to have, rather than esential)
- Some baler wire for running repairs (unlikely to be necessary with a brand new Koga)


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

Inline...


jay clock said:


> bottles
> lights
> 
> Sleeping bag
> ...




You've manged to fit all that in 4 panniers?  Presumably your tent goes above the rear ones?


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## Amanda P (18 Jan 2008)

If you take a good headtorch, and you're not actually planning to ride at night much, you don't really need a front light as well.

Personally, I don't like gas stoves. Those empty cartridges are very wasteful, and bulky. But that's just me and it might be a bit late for you to switch to something else.

Carry backup fire-lighting stuff (lifeboat matches or a flint and steel). Lighters won't always work if they get wet or get trodden on and there's nothing more frustrating than not being able to make fire when you really need a cuppa.

Razor? Shaving gel? You'll be wearing sandals, why not grow the beard? Seriously, though, you do have quite a lot of different toiletries. You can do a lot of things, including shaving, washing your clothes, showering, washing your hair, with an ordinary bar of hand soap. (Not cleaning your teeth though).

Consider carrying a small selection of nuts and bolts, rather than just those for cleats. Also rubber bands (cut some from an old inner tube), plastic bags and the like.

Finally (unless I think of anything else), check that your mulitool will fit every fastener on your (very nice) bike. The thing it won't fit will be the one that comes loose!

Can I come? Oh, I've got to work. Damn.


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## Brock (18 Jan 2008)

Folded up clothes for a pillow never worked for me.
Can't immediately see anything missing, I did think the latex gloves and lubricant was being a bit optimistic though 


Edit: Hey wait!... You've got your phone charger but no phone!
Edit: Oh I see.. 'Mobiles' doesn't refer to in-tent ornamentation.


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## rich p (18 Jan 2008)

Best bit of advice - Ignore most of Bonj's advice as I suspect he has little or no experience of this thing. He doesn't even know what a thermarest is! But I suspect you'd already ignored him

Millets do a twisted elastic clothes line that is tiny and light but due to the double twist doesn't need pegs. 
They also do a washing gel that covers clothes, body and hair. I used it last year and found it excellent.

Tea bags?


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## Bigtallfatbloke (18 Jan 2008)

Red equals not necessary really imho. Also cant you get one charger for all the electric gear?



> bottles
> lights
> 
> Sleeping bag
> ...


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## Brock (18 Jan 2008)

I wouldn't say a cassette tool isn't needed. Spoke breakage is pretty common among tourers, and a little cassette tool and a few spokes can mean the difference between being stranded and a 15 minute fix.
My hypercracker thingy weighs about nothing and saved me a long walk and a lot of time.


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## Achilles (18 Jan 2008)

Looks a bit heavy to me - I reckon on less that 12kg all up for a 5 day tour plus food and water and thats with a 2kg tent - the next item to be changed. Some thoughts

I would only take 1 pan, a titanium mug ( you can heat water in it) and a lexan spoon or spork - no spatula, plate, cutlery or bowl

Get rid of the food boxes

Combine the washing up liquid, shampoo, shower gel and soap by using an all in one product - you can do clothes with it as well

Replace shaving gel with oil

Ditch the ordinary shorts - take zip off trousers ( might also replace the baggy cyling shorts?)

Get rid of the ordinary shoes - flip flops or crocs

I take it the towel is a microfibre one?

Use you bar bag instead of the bum bag

Buff and bandana?

Coat hangers and pegs? Agree with above, the travel wash line would be a better bet.

you might also like to check on Gas availability/comaptibility

Hope this helps - have a fantastic time!


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

rich p said:


> Best bit of advice - Ignore most of Bonj's advice as I suspect he has little or no experience of this thing. *He doesn't even know what a thermarest is! *But I suspect you'd already ignored him


without looking into it I'll bet that it's something that someone who went on Dragon's Den has invented and convinced people they need...


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## simon_adams_uk (18 Jan 2008)

There's some pretty super-light tourers on here! I'd be inclined to keep most of the gear on the list. 

Yes, it'll weigh more but presuming you're not doing heroic distances every day it will make life more pleasant for the 3 weeks your camping. 3 weeks is a long time living out of a tent and panniers and some creature comforts will be worth it I reckon.

The thing I'd definitely recommend keeping is hand gel - specifically I mean an alcohol based cleaning gel. Making grubby hands not so grubby during meal preparation and after 'pit stops' is essential and saves using water, soap, etc all the time.

Other than that, take more small spares (chain links, zip ties, selection of bolts) and try and cut down on the clothing. 

Oh, and for special treats after a hard day small catering packs of posh jam / marmite / similar. A great motivational tool on occasion!!

Enjoy!
S


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## jay clock (18 Jan 2008)

thanks for all the helpful comments (I will of course ignore any unhelpful ones!). Most of you have responded in a why that sounds helpful and constrcutive (only most!)

There are a few themes:

1 soaps/hygiene - in fact for all body/hair washing I am down to a small tune of gel. Shaving is a small bottle of King of shaves. I do not like a beard (in spite of the sandals). the hand gel stuff are minuscule tubes about 9g each I got as free samples. 

2 Pillow. From my limited camping experience this is the ONE thing that is a must have. I sleep on my side, so need good support. I now have a small polyester one (40x30cm) plus a flat inflatable one. Clothes will be added too all inside a pillow case. I am even looking at taking a full size Hungarian goose down pillow which is amazingly light and folds down tiny.

3 Tools/spares. the 25g for a cassette tool seem to be well spent. If I have a drive side spoke go miles from anywhere I only need to borrow a large wrench, plus a piece of cloth as a chain wrench (it works) and I can get the cassette off. Without, I may have a 100 mile+ trip to a bike shop.

4 Off bike shoes. Have thought long and hard about this, but I plan to go for a short run most evenings (I do triathlons). Same goes for swimming goggles - I plan to swim 800m + every time I come to a nice beach. My 50g of goggles will make this a great memory rather than a non starter.

5 the pepper spray is for dogs of the canine variety. not decided about this yet as NZ does not seem to have reports of dog problems but I am terrified of them

6 Cooking etc - whittling the pans etc down a bit might save 3-400g. The whole pot pan, crokcery combo is about 650g

many thanks - will have another re-pack over the next few days!


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## Brock (18 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> 2 Pillow. From my limited camping experience this is the ONE thing that is a must have. I sleep on my side, so need good support. I now have a small polyester one (40x30cm) plus a flat inflatable one. Clothes will be added too all inside a pillow case. I am even looking at taking a full size Hungarian goose down pillow which is amazingly light and folds down tiny.



I'm exactly the same, and ended up with one of these microbead pillow things. They take up a fair bit of pannier space, but weight is negligible, and most importantly I can sleep like a baby on them. 

Small comforts can mean a lot on such a tour, so don't be tempted to deny yourself the luxury of a decent fork and spoon just to save a few grams. At the same time remember you can always dump/purchase stuff along the way if need be.

Don't forget seasoning! I've got one of these salt/pepper pots from Field and Trek. Hardly _necessary_, but nicer to use than other small pots designed for other purposes.


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## Achilles (18 Jan 2008)

One luxury I do take is a thermarest chair kit - 300g but it transforms the evenings also agree with the pillow, unless you have something like a down jacket, I find using clothing very uncomforable and you cannot put them on if you get cold! 

I also only use rear panniers - bike seems to handle OK and that saves about 1.5kg!


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

simon_adams_uk said:


> The thing I'd definitely recommend keeping is hand gel - specifically I mean an alcohol based cleaning gel. Making grubby hands not so grubby during meal preparation *and after 'pit stops' *is essential and saves using water, soap, etc all the time.


that's what the latex gloves are for. However, he _absolutely must _ remember his neck gel, shoulder cream, knee soap, face gel, face cream, face conditioner, nose scrub lotion, thigh lotion, ankle soap, foot soap, and forehead spray. Where would he be without them? - quite obviously stranded. 



simon_adams_uk said:


> Other than that, take more small spares (chain links, zip ties, selection of bolts) and try and cut down on the clothing.


I'm still yet to hear a reason why he would need cable ties.



jay clock said:


> 3 Tools/spares. the 25g for a cassette tool seem to be well spent. If I have a drive side spoke go miles from anywhere I only need to borrow a large wrench, plus a piece of cloth as a chain wrench (it works) and I can get the cassette off. Without, I may have a 100 mile+ trip to a bike shop.


No offence, but if you're miles from anywhere, who do you think you're going to be able to borrow a "large wrench" from - a passing wallaby?

Not meaning to have a go at you but I have to say all this talk people make of doomsday preparation for incase armageddon occurs and/or your bike literally falls to bits seems a bit pointless. Can't cyclists just get travel insurance like everybody else, or is there something i'm missing that dictates that while touring it's in fact constantly necessary to pretend to be living in the 18th century?


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## TheDoctor (18 Jan 2008)

I can't believe people are objecting to dental floss! It's about half a cubic inch, weighs 15% of sod-all and you can fit a needle in the container, so that's a sewing kit sorted as well. There's always a button or something that comes loose.
Once you're carrying tents and such, I'm not sure it's worth trying to cut every gram you can. I mean, when your bike and kit weighs 30 kilos does it really matter if it's nearer 31 kg?
*envies*


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## Bigtallfatbloke (18 Jan 2008)

> Small comforts can mean a lot



I agree. Especially if you are solo touring.

Mine include a Digital tv
Olive oil, salt, garlic, pepper, chile powder,mixed herbs ( I like to cook well)
Two night light candles
Two sleep mats

I might add a pillow as well...I used the stuffed clothes idea last time and it was difficult to start with, but then I got so knackered I would have slept on a rock. Goodsleep is crucial.

Each to his own on 'luxurys' I suppose.


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## TheDoctor (18 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> that's what the latex gloves are for. However, he _absolutely must _ remember his neck gel, shoulder cream, knee soap, face gel, face cream, face conditioner, nose scrub lotion, thigh lotion, ankle soap, foot soap, and forehead spray. Where would he be without them? - quite obviously stranded.



He's already said he's cut down on the toiletries.




bonj said:


> I'm still yet to hear a reason why he would need cable ties.



I've used them to replace broken pannier hooks, stolen bungees, missing guy points on tents and a screw that fell out of a computer bracket.




> No offence, but if you're miles from anywhere, who do you think you're going to be able to borrow a "large wrench" from - a passing wallaby?



Any house will probably have a mole wrench, stillsons, water pump pliers or some sort of gripping and levering thing. Not many will have a lockring tool. Get the cassette off and you can replace a spoke. Been there done that.



> Not meaning to have a go at you but I have to say all this talk people make of doomsday preparation for in case armageddon occurs and/or your bike literally falls to bits seems a bit pointless. Can't cyclists just get travel insurance like everybody else, or is there something i'm missing that dictates that while touring it's in fact constantly necessary to pretend to be living in the 18th century?



Do you really expect travel insurance will help you get your bike back together on the road to Whaikikamucau? Bits break, come loose or get totalled by baggage handlers. And yes, I know you could make a claim but that won't help you when you're at (say) Vienna airport and your front quick release has been run over by a luggage truck. Loop of cable ties through the axle and an allen key either side of the forks. Got me to the hotel, and the following morning I got to a bike shop. And that, Bonj, is why you need bits and bobs and some ingenuity.


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## Amanda P (18 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> I'm still yet to hear a reason why he would need cable ties.



You can fix or replace a very large range of things (at least temporarily) with cable ties. They're very light, and very tough.

Examples: broken pannier hooks; tent guy loops; pannier racks; shoe laces; lash together broken tent poles; zip puller... With some gaffer tape, a swiss army knife, some WD40 and some cable ties, you can probably bodge just about anything.


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## rich p (18 Jan 2008)

Brock said:


> I'm exactly the same, and ended up with one of these microbead pillow things. They take up a fair bit of pannier space, but weight is negligible, and most importantly I can sleep like a baby on them.
> 
> [g]




The pillow thing is a big deal. I've never got it right yet. Clothes don't do it for me and you need a good kip on a tough tour.
I also got fed up with thermarests last year and ended up on an air bed which was heavier but luxury!
I may give the Microbead pillow a go, Brock.
I note that people who bought the pillow also bought 'Dr Fart'!. Hmmm!


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## Amanda P (18 Jan 2008)

And once again, the good Doctor has beaten me to it.

Like the bodge for a bust QR skewer. Mentally filed.


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## jay clock (18 Jan 2008)

many thanks to those of you who posted non-sneering comments. Most of you seem to know a lot about camping touring, and have been able to give me the benefit of your experience without attempting to make me look like a complete plonker. Most of you. 

Cheers

Jay


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## Crackle (18 Jan 2008)

Make sure the ear plugs (essential for a nice nights sleep in a noisy environment) are foam not wax!


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

TheDoctor said:


> Any house will probably have a mole wrench, stillsons, water pump pliers or some sort of gripping and levering thing. Not many will have a lockring tool. Get the cassette off and you can replace a spoke. Been there done that.


...but they're probably fairly unlikely to have an oil filter wrench or an old chain (you'd still need them to be willing to park their car with its tyre on it.) So you're still stuck.



TheDoctor said:


> Do you really expect travel insurance will help you get your bike back together on the road to Whaikikamucau?


You can get breakdown insurance in new zealand you know. It's not a third world country ...  ...duh!



TheDoctor said:


> well ... yeah, i'm Bits break, come loose or get totalled by baggage handlers. And yes, I know you could make a claim but that won't help you when you're at (say) Vienna airport and your front quick release has been run over by a luggage truck. Loop of cable ties through the axle and an allen key either side of the forks. Got me to the hotel, and the following morning I got to a bike shop. And that, Bonj, is why you need bits and bobs and some ingenuity.


it's quick release got run over by a baggage truck? well why weren't you supervising your bike from the point when you'd got it off the carousel and out of the box and put it back together? And I'm not sure i'd have put it back together in the airport either. 



Uncle Phil said:


> You can fix or replace a very large range of things (at least temporarily) with cable ties. They're very light, and very tough.
> 
> Examples: broken pannier hooks; tent guy loops; pannier racks; shoe laces; lash together broken tent poles; zip puller... With some gaffer tape, a swiss army knife, some WD40 and some cable ties, you can probably bodge just about anything.



Bodge, bodge, bodge. Bodge this, bodge that. Let's all get together in a field in the middle of a field and toss it off over our old bikes that are all cable-tied together, welded up with bits of old plough nicked from french farmers, driven by chains that are held together with string and have sheep leg bones for crank arms, over a fire that we've lit by twirling a stick between two stones. Sorry to jay for ranting on his thread, but this makes me really angry how whenever anyone starts a thread about touring or camping or any long bike ride all the cycling doom-mongers start banging on about how you'll have to fix your bike with 'the elements' and bits of old bric-a-brac.
jay, like i say sorry for semi-hijacking, i'm sure everything will go swimmingly, your bike will be absolutely fine and you'll have a lovely time - just don't believe all the doom-mongering that you'll get struck down by mechanical failure the minute you get a few miles from civilisation. Take basic tools, but for things that are _likely_ to go wrong, not things that aren't. Don't get the wrong impression of cycle touring, it's _mainly_ about meandering through the countryside, enjoying the scenery, and discovering new places. What it's NOT about is a willy-waving competition as to who can battle on through the worst mechanical adversity by cobbling something together with some crap old twigs they've found.

i'm sure at the end of the day nothing will break, it'll all go swimmingly and you'll have a lovely time, all the best and like i say sorry for the anger, but this general strength of feeling DOES make me angry.


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## rich p (18 Jan 2008)

Bonj, stop digging. You're just making a prat of yourself.


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## jay clock (18 Jan 2008)

I am delighted with all the helpful and constructive comments. I have also discovered the "ignore" function in this forum - if it works as I hope, then I look forward to more helpful, friendly and supportive postings.

cheers!

Jay


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

rich p said:


> Bonj, stop digging. You're just making a prat of yourself.


Ah, DIGGING. Yes. Presumably you're going to tell me that when I'm riding to work I should carry a spade on my back so that should my headset suddenly explode I can dig a hole and unearth some fossils to use as a new one.



jay clock said:


> I am delighted with all the helpful and constructive comments. I have also discovered the "ignore" function in this forum - if it works as I hope, then I look forward to more helpful, friendly and supportive postings.
> 
> cheers!
> 
> Jay



its implementation isn't _quite_ perfect, as while you can't actually see the content of the post made by whoever you're ignoring, you can see that there _has been_ a post - i.e. it puts a placeholder there. It's also a bad choice to be sycophantic and only listen to advice you like the sound of from people who like blowing their own trombone too much.


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## Brock (18 Jan 2008)

bonj, his touring bike is aluminium, can't you just be happy with that and leave the advice to people who have actually cycled more than 20 miles from home?


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## sloe (18 Jan 2008)

Couldn't be bothered reading past Bonj's 1st post cos I knew there'd be fireworks, and B is of course the hate-flavour of the day, but most of what he said was about saving weight. So I'd say read Bonj's 1st post again, and the rest, and saw a few centimeters off of your toothbrush and take less toothpaste, Wurleitzers and sheep.


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## vernon (18 Jan 2008)

sloe said:


> Couldn't be bothered reading past Bonj's 1st post cos I knew there'd be fireworks, and B is of course the hate-flavour of the day, but most of what he said was about saving weight. So I'd say read Bonj's 1st post again, and the rest, and saw a few centimeters off of your toothbrush and take less toothpaste, Wurleitzers and sheep.



He seems to be so obsessed with weight that I wonder if he indulges in pre-ride Onanism to shed a few vital grams 

One can take the Crane brothers attitude to weight and be totally obsessed by it or one can just relax and enjoy the ride(s).

Comfort comes at a price and the original poster is wise enough to spot the poor fondation of Bonj's knowledge.


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## vernon (18 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> I am off to NZ in 8 days time for a 3 week camping tour. I have camped for a couple of one nighters (feeble but true) and have done 5 one week tours staying in hotels. Bike is a new Koga Miyata World Traveller to replace my trad British 531 tourer.
> 
> Sorry for the long list pasted in below. I have packed it all in my four new Ortlieb panniers (front and rear backrollers) Plus an Ortlieb dry bag for the tent and ground sheet. The rear panniers weigh 10kg. the front 4.9kg and the dry bag 3.3kg. There are a few extra things in there not listed below (some freeze dried food for emergencies), and one or two of the things are not in yet, but the weight will be around a total of 18-19kg (max 20kg) based on what I currently have listed. For the weigh-in I kept out the one set of cycling clothes I will be wearing, plus helmet etc. I also have a small 3 litre bar bag but that is really just for essentials (wallet, camera etc). All kit such as sleeping and cooking is lightweight.
> 
> ...



bottles
lights

Sleeping bag
Thermarest
Pillow Thermarest do a reversable stuffa sack that doubles as a pillow. I've used a 2 litre plastic pop bottle - surprisingly comfy when wrapped in a few bits of clothing.
Silk liner
Tent
groundsheet

Gas stove
lighter
Pans
Spatula, plate, cutlery, bowl, cup. have you considered a spork a single piece of cutlery?
food tubs + bottles I used resealable plastic bags.
coffee
washup liq
sponge
swiss penknife Drop this if you are taking a leqther man. Unecessary duplication.

cycling shirt short sleeves
baggy shorts lycra
triathlon shorts
SPD sandals
bandana

Short fingered gloves
Helmet
arm and leg warmers You must be nesh if it's as warm as you claim it is 
Buff
sunglasses
sunglasses case
ultralight jacket
Goretex jacket

camera You've got a lot of electrical gear here. If your gear won't take dry celss leave it at home. You won't always have access to mains electricity. It might be worthwhile considering a spare phone battery.
camera charger
tripod
phone charger 
tikka headlamp
ipod
ipod charger
power adapter

shower gel  It might be the wrong time of year but Boots sell popular hygiene products in travel sized packages
shampoo
hand gel
hand cream
razor
tooth brush
tooth paste
floss
shaving gel
nurofen - Generic Ibuprofen is cheaper and just as good.
deo
nail clippers
suncream P20
lipsalve
wetwipes
tissues
Washing liquid
mozzie Avon Skin So Soft if you can get it
plasters/first aid
sewing kit ??? Not sure that you need this.
flannel/sponge

rough guide
NZ map

Compass/thermomter
coat hangers Why?? Arenr't they bulky?
pegs
notebook Isn't this duplicated below? 
light fleece
ordinary socks
pants
trousers
t shirt
base layer
ordinary shorts
ordinary shoes
towel
baseball cap

wallet
passport
mobiles
Bum bag
goggles
eye mask
ear plugs
notebook and pen

cable ties
lock
spokes
spare cleats/bolts Never lost/broke a cleat in 3000 miles of touring and 4000 miles of Audaxing.
multitool
inner tube
puncture kit Check that your glue tube has glue in it.....
chaintool
pedal spanner ?? Nah....
cassette tool
fake leatherman
Where's your duct tape. I've made a tyre boot, repaired a tent pole, repaired the arm of riding glassess, bodged the battery cover on my camera. Some folk wrap it round the body of their cycle pump. You *are* taking a cycle pump aren't you?
 lubricant
latex gloves
bungees/straps
spare pads I'd be surprised if you wore out a newly fitted set on your tour. Fit them now and forget about spares.
spare cables Take a rear brake cable...it can be shortened for the front. Similarly for derailleur. Or fit new ones before leaving....
pepper spray

Have a nice tour...


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## Crackle (18 Jan 2008)

Did someone already say about getting a generic charger for all the electronics? Maybe even ditch the camera for one which takes batteries, far easier. Does the Ipod have a radio? If not a small portable radio is useful for weather forecasts, emergency info etc.. Small binoculars would be on my list and are the nail clippers necessary if you have the penknife? Ibuprofen 400mg means you only need to take one tablet so you can half the amount carried. What about a whistle if you are planning some walking too. Apart from that I think you've got everything.


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## TheDoctor (18 Jan 2008)

OMFG! Where to start?



bonj said:


> ...but they're probably fairly unlikely to have an oil filter wrench or an old chain (you'd still need them to be willing to park their car with its tyre on it.) So you're still stuck.



No you're not, read the post.



bonj said:


> You can get breakdown insurance in new zealand you know. It's not a third world country ...  ...duh!



Good luck calling the AA with a busted bike. And I know about NZ - like it's the size of the UK and has a population of 1 700 000 or so. You're much more likely to be miles away from a town.




bonj said:


> it's quick release got run over by a baggage truck? well why weren't you supervising your bike from the point when you'd got it off the carousel and out of the box and put it back together? And I'm not sure i'd have put it back together in the airport either.



Well, you walk from the airport carrying a box then. Putting it back together takes 15 mins tops. Wheels in, tighten bars, seat post in, pedals in, find somewhere to dispose of cardboard box. 'S easy.
And no, I didn't watch my bike get hit by a truck! I suspect it happened while the bike was coming on or off the plane. Do you often get trucks in the baggage hall? 




bonj said:


> ,<snipped the random rant>
> i'm sure at the end of the day nothing will break, it'll all go swimmingly and you'll have a lovely time, all the best and like i say sorry for the anger, but this general strength of feeling DOES make me angry.



It's not fanwankery, it's being prepared when you're potentially miles away from anyone who can help you. All the things I listed have happened to me, over the course of about 25 years. Having about 4 ounces of bits and some inventiveness has saved me from uncomfortable situations. Kipping the night at an airport wouldn't have been the end of the world, but I'd sooner not have to.

*Considers setting up an 'ignore' list*


----------



## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

vernon said:


> He seems to be so obsessed with weight that I wonder if he indulges in pre-ride Onanism to shed a few vital grams
> 
> One can take the Crane brothers attitude to weight and be totally obsessed by it or one can just relax and enjoy the ride(s).



i'm not obsessed with weight. In fact I haven't said anything about frame material or weight in this thread. That's just you being prejudiced. I just find the 'make do and mend' mentality really gets up my nose. We're NOT in the second world war any more. We DO have something generally known in the trade as 'civilisation'.

In fact it was somebody else who mentioned that with a fully laden touring bikes you're more likely to break a spoke, so presumably this is due to the increased weight. Have you not considered the possibility that carrying all these heavy tools for the eventuality that your bike will break could be a self-fulfilling prophecy - the extra weight from the fact that you're carrying the tools _in itself_ makes your bike more likely to break?? 



vernon said:


> Comfort comes at a price and the original poster is wise enough to spot the poor fondation of Bonj's knowledge.



Like I said, true if the aim is to be a sycophant of those who indulge in the type of patronising cock-waving of which this...


vernon said:


> Where's your duct tape. I've made a tyre boot, repaired a tent pole, repaired the arm of riding glassess, bodged the battery cover on my camera. Some folk wrap it round the body of their cycle pump. You *are* taking a cycle pump aren't you?



...is an archetypal example, then yes it is wise to ignore me. But, I'll not stop pointing out that this isn't the only philosophy.
Oh, and mending a tyre with duct tape is not just a bodge, it's dangerous, and I find the fact that you've recommended a safety compromise offensive.


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

TheDoctor said:


> Well, you walk from the airport carrying a box then. Putting it back together takes 15 mins tops. Wheels in, tighten bars, seat post in, pedals in, find somewhere to dispose of cardboard box. 'S easy.
> And no, I didn't watch my bike get hit by a truck! I suspect it happened while the bike was coming on or off the plane. Do you often get trucks in the baggage hall?


  obfuscation. you cocked up. (or did you? )
personally I wouldn't have used cardboard, i'd be more tempted to go for something like this: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360026102&N=dhb Bike Travel Case
I just don't understand how your QR managed to get run over by a baggage truck. Was your bike in a fully assembled state when it happened? Was it in the 'care' of the airline's baggage handlers, or you? You aren't making sense.


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## TheDoctor (18 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> obfuscation. you cocked up. (or did you? )
> personally I wouldn't have used cardboard, i'd be more tempted to go for something like this: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360026102&N=dhb Bike Travel Case
> I just don't understand how your QR managed to get run over by a baggage truck. Was your bike in a fully assembled state when it happened? Was it in the 'care' of the airline's baggage handlers, or you? You aren't making sense.



I see your confusion. The bike was in a box - you need to have a bike in something to get it on a plane. The box got run over (while the baggage peeps had it), and one of the quick releases got bent. They weren't in the wheels at the time. It wouldn't go through the axle, and it broke as I tried to straighten it. And I was using a cardboard box from the LBS to wrap the bike on the trip out, and scrounged another one in Austria for the trip back. So as not to carry a big hard case around for the week.

All clear now?


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## bonj2 (18 Jan 2008)

TheDoctor said:


> I see your confusion. The bike was in a box - you need to have a bike in something to get it on a plane. The box got run over (while the baggage peeps had it), and one of the quick releases got bent. They weren't in the wheels at the time. It wouldn't go through the axle, and it broke as I tried to straighten it. And I was using a cardboard box from the LBS to wrap the bike on the trip out, and scrounged another one in Austria for the trip back. So as not to carry a big hard case around for the week.
> 
> All clear now?



Yes, perfectly - I can tell you what your mistake was then. Your mistake was using a cardboard box rather than one made of a more sturdy material. I wouldn't trust my bike on a plane unless it was in a hard, custom made bike box, or if it didn't fit in one then that everything that got taken off was wrapped in as much bubblewrap as possible, and it was all packed up in polystyrene in a HARD case, or multiple cases. I'd be paranoid about taking my bike on a plane, and I'd check, double check and triple check my insurance to make sure it was covered for any eventuality.


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## Crackle (18 Jan 2008)

Bonj does the word 'touring' trigger a pre-programmed response. Have you at some point been indoctrinated by a cult and then your memory wiped clean and a new personality overlaid. This might account for those strange dreams you are having where you realize you are in a dream it's because you really are! The real Bonj is 'in there somewhere'.

Have you ever actually been camping, never mind cycle touring? C'mon tell us. What is it about touring that winds you up so?


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## TheDoctor (18 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> Yes, perfectly - I can tell you what your mistake was then. Your mistake was using a cardboard box rather than one made of a more sturdy material. I wouldn't trust my bike on a plane unless it was in a hard, custom made bike box, or if it didn't fit in one then that everything that got taken off was wrapped in as much bubblewrap as possible, and it was all packed up in polystyrene in a HARD case, or multiple cases. I'd be paranoid about taking my bike on a plane, and I'd check, double check and triple check my insurance to make sure it was covered for any eventuality.



Well, cheers for that. I didn't fancy lugging a hard case the length of the Danube, and I got myself out of the situation with 20p worth of cable ties and a little ingenuity. I've taken a bike on a plane 3 times now (to Austria, Portugal and Geneva) and that's the only time I've come unstuck like that. And I'll say it again - no insurance in the world would have helped me out.


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## Chuffy (19 Jan 2008)

Having never toured (well, a disastrous mini-tour of Cornwall 18 years ago aside) I can't add much to the wisdom thus far dispensed Jay. But I am enjoying watching Bonj do his mad monkey dance yet again .

Have a good time!


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## P.H (19 Jan 2008)

Looks a pretty complete list to me, you'll probably refine it with time, most of the major weight decisions are personal. I'd rather carry too much than not enough. On trips where I've carried 5kg more than needed it's slowed me down a fraction. My one attempt at ultralight was a miserable experience.
You can get wind up chargers, I haven't used one, but worth checking out if one would replace all yours.
One item I'd add is a water carrier, the roll up type, it can be a long walk to the tap and your bike water bottles won't be enough if you're cooking. One that could fit to the rack when full could be useful.
My choice of pillow;
http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product301.asp
Have a great trip.


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## wallabyhunter (19 Jan 2008)

> Each to his own on 'luxurys' I suppose.



I met a guy on a tour (Perth-Albany in Aus) his 'luxury' was a cut crystal wine glass! He had it for the whole tour, 14 days, & last time I met him he still had it!

I reckon Bonj is on the staff of CycleChat, just to push things along a bit when they get slow!

Don't stress, prepare as well as you can, & then enjoy it.

gb


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## psmiffy (19 Jan 2008)

Industrial strength insect repellent – sandflies can be savage


Weather should be like a good UK summer (south!) - ie 22-27deg day, 15-16 at night, quite possible some rain. I am risking SPD sandals for all weather.

Yes weather can be like good UK Summer (not always 22-27) – However - I've cycled in NZ twice at or about this time of the year and been subjected to quite prolonged deluges both in the North and South Islands (2-3 days at up to 40mm hour) – all right at first in shorts and mitts with Gore-Tex jacket but after a while you begin to chill very significantly – quite often a long way to anywhere you can shelter – I wore Waterproof leggings, overshoes and gloves- something to put under or over helmet to keep rain off is useful - for gloves I eventually had to resort to a large pair of agricultural rubber ones (hands get just as wet from perspiration but stay warm longer) – and before anyone says it - yes cycling in that sort of rain is pure madness 

Take enough tools – where there are bike shops in major centres they are adequate but can be a long way between them – ditto pegs I cannot remember seeing a laundrette

nitrile gloves or washing up –latex dissolves in the chain gunk

Gas cylinders are generally of the screw on primus sort that we are most used to in England – although the blue camping gaz clicky things are available in some places – again shops selling them can be scarce


Be Good it will be Mega


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## Cathryn (19 Jan 2008)

Corkscrew. 

Very jealous. Are you going to be doing a blog?


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## rich p (19 Jan 2008)

psmiffy said:


> Industrial strength insect repellent – sandflies can be savage
> 
> 
> Weather should be like a good UK summer (south!) - ie 22-27deg day, 15-16 at night, quite possible some rain. I am risking SPD sandals for all weather.
> ...



No offence, Smiffy, but that font is 'orrible


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## Achilles (19 Jan 2008)

A couple of thigs I do carry not on the list are a Pee bottle ( a wide neck nalgene, carefully marked!), its the nearest you will get to an en-suite in a tent, and as you get older....... it makes the tea in bed in the morning possible for me anyway.

I also carry a trowel - one of the back-packing light orange ones, you already have the tissues and hand gel.


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## rich p (19 Jan 2008)

Achilles said:


> ... it makes the tea in bed in the morning possible for me anyway.
> 
> .




Great idea but doesn't it make the tea taste funny! Sarah Miles was a fan IIRC!


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## Achilles (19 Jan 2008)

Hmmm, that is taking weight saving to the extreme! I will now try and delete these images from my mind.


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

wallabyhunter said:


> I met a guy on a tour (Perth-Albany in Aus) his 'luxury' was a cut crystal wine glass! He had it for the whole tour, 14 days, & last time I met him he still had it!
> 
> I reckon Bonj is on the staff of CycleChat, just to push things along a bit when they get slow!
> 
> ...



One chap that I met had a caffettiere....


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> Like I said, true if the aim is to be a sycophant of those who indulge in the type of patronising cock-waving of which this...
> 
> 
> ...is an archetypal example, then yes it is wise to ignore me. But, I'll not stop pointing out that this isn't the only philosophy.
> Oh, and mending a tyre with duct tape is not just a bodge, it's dangerous, and I find the fact that you've recommended a safety compromise offensive.



Dear oh dear Bonj at his best again. Dismissing a course of action without knowing the circumstances or the the nature of the repair. His ignorance knows no bounds. 

I am fully aware of risks/risk assessment and properties of material as a chartered engineer with extensive hands on experience. The only hands on experience that Bonk seems to have is with his aforementioned phallus. 

Tyre boots have fabricated from a whole range of materials as a 'get me home' or 'get me to a bike shop' measure. Materials successfully used include layers of plastic bags, bits of paper, card and tyvek. When suitable laminated and positioned, a tyre boot is not only an effective short term repair it can be left in place for several days until access to a bike shop is available. Not all cuts are reparable but, unlike Bonj, I am well qualified to judge what is and is not safe.


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## rich p (19 Jan 2008)

I have to fess up that last year we bought one of those little aluminium coffee pots to make up an espresso each. It was nice with a whisky in the evening!


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

rich p said:


> I have to fess up that last year we bought one of those little aluminium coffee pots to make up an espresso each. It was nice with a whisky in the evening!



I'm not knocking the possession of a cafettiere. It's just not my sort of luxury 

My luxury was a little more mundane - a radio. I might upgrade to a SW radio if I do more touring overseas.


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## TheDoctor (19 Jan 2008)

Cathryn said:


> *Corkscrew.*
> 
> Very jealous. Are you going to be doing a blog?



Most NZ wine seems to come with a screwtop. Kiwis will assert that they work just as well as corks, and are better because you don't risk cork taint. I personally suspect that the fact that cork trees don't grow in NZ might have something to do with it too!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (19 Jan 2008)

don't forget a photograph of loved ones.......in a cold wet tent in the pissing rain miles from home on your Todd...it'll make a difference.

I good water carrier can be a simple plastic coke bottle picked up en route.


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## bonj2 (19 Jan 2008)

Crackle said:


> Bonj does the word 'touring' trigger a pre-programmed response.
> Have you at some point been indoctrinated by a cult and then your memory wiped clean and a new personality overlaid. This might account for those strange dreams you are having where you realize you are in a dream it's because you really are! The real Bonj is 'in there somewhere'.
> Have you ever actually been camping, never mind cycle touring? C'mon tell us. What is it about touring that winds you up so?



No, the word 'bodge' triggers a pre-programmed generally heated response.
Contrary to popular belief, I do know a lot about cycling, and I probably would even go 'touring' if I didn't have this little thing that most people tend to refer to as a "job".  yes I have camped lots but mainly as a kid with the family, but I'm probably going to get myself a tent and a stove and go for some weekends in wales once the weather gets a bit better.




Bigtallfatbloke said:


> don't forget a photograph of loved ones.......in a cold wet tent in the pissing rain miles from home on your Todd...it'll make a difference.


mobile phone could fulfill this purpose?


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## bonj2 (19 Jan 2008)

vernon said:


> One chap that I met had a caffettiere....


first sensible thing you've suggested.



vernon said:


> Dear oh dear Bonj at his best again. Dismissing a course of action without knowing the circumstances or the the nature of the repair. His ignorance knows no bounds.
> 
> I am fully aware of risks/risk assessment and properties of material......
> .....but, unlike Bonj, I am well qualified to judge what is and is not safe.


if you think that mending a tyre with duct tape is safe then you're quite obviously _not_ 'qualified to judge what is and is not safe'!
Just 'cos it's worked once doesn't mean it's not introducing a much greater chance of causing an accident.



vernon said:


> as a chartered engineer with extensive hands on experience.


Course you are, flower. Course you are.


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## Danny (19 Jan 2008)

P.H said:


> I'd rather carry too much than not enough. On trips where I've carried 5kg more than needed it's slowed me down a fraction. My one attempt at ultralight was a miserable experience.



Agree. It is one thing to travel ultralight for a couple of nights, but you want a few comforts if your going for three weeks. 

So don't cut down on the pillow, etc., but as others have suggested you could probably leave out a few of the tools - e.g. the pedal spanner.


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## Danny (19 Jan 2008)

Sorry to see that this thread has developed into another Bonj versus the world slanging match. 

Personally I think Bonj is allowed to offer an opinion on Jay Clock's kit list - what he said wasn't actually so different from all the other replies. As far as I can see there are a few forum members who enjoy baiting Bonj at every opportunity, and as you have found, Bonj is only too willing to respond in kind.

As far as I am concerned the fact that Bonj is prepared to offer such firm opinions on subjects he may know little about make his posts a joy to read - and oddly it also means that he does come up with the occasional useful insight.


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

Dannyg said:


> As far as I am concerned the fact that Bonj is prepared to offer such firm opinions on subjects he may know little about make his posts a joy to read - and oddly it also means that he does come up with the occasional useful insight.



remind us of both of them then


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> No, the word 'bodge' triggers a pre-programmed generally heated response.
> Contrary to popular belief, I do know a lot about cycling, and I probably would even go 'touring' if I didn't have this little thing that most people tend to refer to as a "job".



Most of also have jobs but there again most of us seem better at time management than you to allow us to undulge in touring.....


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## jay clock (19 Jan 2008)

More thanks
Just to explain, I cut and pasted that list from a spreadsheet. I know what the items mean, even if they are not obvious. So Neurofen in fact means Asda brand 34p for 16. Inner tube means 3 inner tubes

1 Once and for all, the pedal spanner will be left with the bike box in Auckland!

2 Electrical - I am being given a new camera for my birthday (all alone while I am away!) so I need to take the camera stuff. I will have my UK mobile, and a spare one in which I will put an NZ SIM card so I can call and text massively more cheaply. My three daughters are very concerned about me being on my own in way out places, so I place high value on contactability. One charger does both, and it is a French charger, much lighter than the UK ones. The Ipod will provide some evening entertainment. These can be charged at many of the campsites. The total weight of the phones, chargers, Ipod etc is about 350g

3 Hygiene. When it says hand gel etc, this is not a 400ml bottle - they are tiny samples. I am looking forward to having a good shower and clean up every day, including a shave. The small bottle of King of Shaves serum and 3 razors totals about 50g. All the things I have are travel size or decanted into small bottles.

4 Cooking. I have an existing Camping Gaz stove like this http://www.camping-online.co.uk/CAMPING-GAZ-STOVES,LANTERNS-AND-ACCESSORIES/CAMPING-GAZ-BLEUET-270-MICRO-STOVE.html and since many campsites have kitchens, did not want to buy a new one. The alu pot and pan set, along with plastic plate bowl and cup etc weigh about 600g. I could save about 200g by leaving a couple of pans out, but I want comfort and a proper meal at the end of the day, not an all in one meal brewed in a cup.

5 Bedding. Someone queried the silk liner. Nice if the weather is too warm for the bag, and more easily washable to save the bag getting too grubby too soon

6 Tent etc - the tent has a ridiculously lightweight base, so a groundsheet will help protect it. I already have a small rip in the floor. In retrospect I should have got a cheap and nasty but still pretty light tent from Millet's.

Summary - I am someone who likes comfort and keeping clean so these things are high on my priority list. A decent pillow is ESSENTIAL for example. I also like to be in a position where I can carry out reasonable roadside repairs. I wasted a day on a 6 day tour a couple of years back with a loose BB that I could have tightened if I had had the tool. Cable ties are extremely useful and on my last tour I used them to repair a mudguard stay and to repair a pannier hook. They also weigh about 1g each.

I have refined my list based on the comments, but there seem to be three main differences of view on my list

1 Those of an ultralight disposition, no shaving, no electrics, limited comfort, evenings out (if at all) wearing cycling kit

2 People who perhaps misunderstand my list and do not realise that most of my items are very light for their type (eg Prolite 4 Thermarest at 690g), very light down bag, very light North Face tent or saw the hygiene list as excessive. Suggestions like "bite nails" to save the 15g nail clippers are just not my style!

3 Disagreement on tools and preparedness to carry out repairs. On the one hand there is nowhere I will be going where I will be alone (lots of campsites even if basic), on the other hand there will be a 3-4 day stretch round the East Cape where a bike shop will be 150km away. Shops in NZ's smaller towns often close at noon on Saturday till Monday morning, so a major problem on a Saturday morning could well mean a 48hr hiatus. Quite a lot out of a 19 days ride and one I would like to avoid. 

Many thanks to everyone who has given their opinion and I will try and update this in exactly a month to let you know whether I abandoned half the kit over a cliff in a fit of pique!

Jay


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## Crackle (19 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> ........but I'm probably going to get myself a tent and a stove and go for some weekends in wales once the weather gets a bit better.



I hope you're going to come to us for advice on your list of things, which bike you're riding and it's gearing, which tent and where you are going: Happy to help


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## Chuffy (19 Jan 2008)

Crackle said:


> I hope you're going to come to us for advice on your list of things, which bike you're riding and it's gearing, which tent and where you are going: Happy to help


Bonj, when you slap down your version of this OP, can you let me know in advance? I want to make sure I've got a comfy chair, popcorn and a supply of cold beers, because it's going to be funnier than a funny thing being funny. 

The only wisdom I can really offer is to treat this as a learning experience, be prepared to adapt on the fly and not to treat it as a test where you pass or fail. After the trip, have a debrief on what you needed, what you didn't use _but might have needed_, what you didn't need etc etc.

Because you'll be doing this again, won't you?


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

1 Once and for all, the pedal spanner will be left with the bike box in Auckland!

Check your pedals, they might be able to be removed/ replaced using an allen key - all of my pedals are - more through good luck than good management I hasten to add.


3 Hygiene. When it says hand gel etc, this is not a 400ml bottle - they are tiny samples. I am looking forward to having a good shower and clean up every day, including a shave. The small bottle of King of Shaves serum and 3 razors totals about 50g. All the things I have are travel size or decanted into small bottles.

What's the King of Shaves serum like? Is it worth trying?


Summary - I am someone who likes comfort and keeping clean so these things are high on my priority list. A decent pillow is ESSENTIAL for example. I also like to be in a position where I can carry out reasonable roadside repairs. I wasted a day on a 6 day tour a couple of years back with a loose BB that I could have tightened if I had had the tool. Cable ties are extremely useful and on my last tour I used them to repair a mudguard stay and to repair a pannier hook. They also weigh about 1g each.

I wouldn't be without cable ties. They rival duct tape for immobilising things though they can't be used as tyre boots though I do know of someone who unsuccessfully tried to hold a tyre together with them.....

I have refined my list based on the comments, but there seem to be three main differences of view on my list

1 Those of an ultralight disposition, no shaving, no electrics, limited comfort, evenings out (if at all) wearing cycling kit

I don't do light weight - I'd find it easier to lose body mass than to lose equipment mass. If all the stuff fits in my panniers I take it 

2 People who perhaps misunderstand my list and do not realise that most of my items are very light for their type (eg Prolite 4 Thermarest at 690g), very light down bag, very light North Face tent or saw the hygiene list as excessive. Suggestions like "bite nails" to save the 15g nail clippers are just not my style!

You could give your nails a closer than normal clipping and leave them behind....

3 Disagreement on tools and preparedness to carry out repairs. On the one hand there is nowhere I will be going where I will be alone (lots of campsites even if basic), on the other hand there will be a 3-4 day stretch round the East Cape where a bike shop will be 150km away. Shops in NZ's smaller towns often close at noon on Saturday till Monday morning, so a major problem on a Saturday morning could well mean a 48hr hiatus. Quite a lot out of a 19 days ride and one I would like to avoid. 

There will always be disagreements about the 'degree of tooling up'.  

Many thanks to everyone who has given their opinion and I will try and update this in exactly a month to let you know whether I abandoned half the kit over a cliff in a fit of pique!

Have a great time.


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## bonj2 (19 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> 6 Tent etc - the tent has a ridiculously lightweight base, so a groundsheet will help protect it. I already have a small rip in the floor.


just repair it with duck tape.




vernon said:


> Check your pedals, they might be able to be removed/ replaced using an allen key - all of my pedals are - more through good luck than good management I hasten to add.


M540s.


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## Abitrary (19 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> shower gel
> shampoo
> hand gel
> hand cream
> ...



Firstly, a toiletry bag load should fit in plastic bag taking about the same volume as a banana. All that stuff looks like a small panier load

Nail clippers? Do you think you're going to get lucky or something?

Shower gel / shampoo / shaving gel is all achievable with that Green Tea shower gel stuff, you can get tiny bottles from asda, and it gives a good shave.

Deodorant only makes a psychological difference.

No flannel or nurofen.

Hand gel, sewing kit... hehehehe, you're joking now

The only thing you're not thinking about is suncream properly. You'll need stuff for the back of the ears, nose etc, and weaker stuff for the rest of your arms and stuff.

That will set up back a good few quid if you have to buy it from expensive chemists abroad. If you're unlucky up to 50 quid over a 3 week tour


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## vernon (19 Jan 2008)

Abitrary said:


> Firstly, a toiletry bag load should fit in plastic bag taking about the same volume as a banana. All that stuff looks like a small panier load
> 
> Nail clippers? Do you think you're going to get lucky or something?
> 
> ...



Have you read the original poster's update?

You might want to revise your comments after reading it.


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## jay clock (19 Jan 2008)

Thanks Vernon

re the pedal spanner, I can use allen keys but have had problems in the past. it fits in my allowance and will not be carried on tour

The KoS serum is amazing stuff - 50ml bottle will do over 50 shaves. I have tried it and it leaves a lovely moisturised feeling. £4.99 at Boots. see here http://www.shave.com/store/prod/kos/kos_ug_ulx_s_um_info.stm?sid=R5J-ysZBZnAAAFkXS@Y

Arbitrary, thanks for the comments. Going undeodorized is not on my list of plus points about cycle tourists. I am not really sure how much faster I will go if I leave behind 32g of nurofen, and not sure why you tell me I should not take it. If I suffer pain or inflammation I will want some. I like to keep my nails cut short - nothing to do with getting lucky just personal preference. Of course, an unwashed and smelly cyclist with straggly nails is not going to get lucky, therefore reinforcing my reasons for looking and smelling good on tour. The sewing kit weighs 8g -useful for any minor problems. 

The suncream I am definitely aware of. I have P20 which I have found superb, and to be honest the UK stuff for factor 30-40+ I have found less good value than buying outside the UK. I am told NZ stuff is good quality and value. I will also get in supermarkets rather than chemists

As an aside, am I unusual in being someone who showers etc daily (or more) at home, and wants to be as clean whilst away? Or are the people telling me the washing can be cut back on simply people who are like that at home, and do not understand that anyone can be different?


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## Crackle (19 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> As an aside, am I unusual in being someone who showers etc daily (or more) at home, and wants to be as clean whilst away? Or are the people telling me the washing can be cut back on simply people who are like that at home, and do not understand that anyone can be different?



No. I can't think of anything better after a long day in the saddle than a shower. One of the reasons I hardly ever wildcamped when touring


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## andrew_s (20 Jan 2008)

Cassette removal is best done with one of these.
Just as light as the official shimano remover, and you don't need a chain whip and big spanner to work it with.
I agree with the requirement for a reasonable range of tools and spares, and the original list looks good to me, assuming it's been checked against the bike.


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## andrew_s (20 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> rich_p said:
> 
> 
> > Best bit of advice - Ignore most of Bonj's advice as I suspect he has little or no experience of this thing. He doesn't even know what a thermarest is! But I suspect you'd already ignored him
> ...



The thermarest is the single biggest improvement in camping equipment in the last 30 years


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## jay clock (21 Jan 2008)

OK, here is an update.

Firstly, I went for a 39km ride today (pretty hilly, strong winds, some head-on) a couple of heavy showers. The bike weighed a ton! however whenever I got my old tourer loaded up it always seemed stupidly heavy at first.

All in all I was very happy. I had to switch to the small chainring a couple of times on hills I would normally have managed OK on the middle ring, but the bike (new Koga Miyata) was solid and stable, and the Ortlieb panniers were great. Had to stop to fine tune the Ortlieb mountings, but all is now set up fine.

I have just been through the panniers ruthlessly and whittled out 1kg more or less exactly. Things like the ultralight windproof, have gone, one of the pans (still have one pan, a small fry pan and small kettle), Swiss knife replaced by sharp steak knife, small number of tools and spares have gone. Also several little mesh bags (eg pots and pans) have gone too. And the pepper spray.

The only other item I am giving serious thought to leaving is the running shoes. 910g... I would love to run a few times when there after cycling, but I may find a couple of beaches where I could run barefoot. That would mean I had nothing but SPD sandals for the whole trip. Not ideal if i want to go for a walk, but just about acceptable. I could always buy more shoes if pushed.....

Any views on sleeping bags? Mine is a Blacks http://www.blacks.co.uk/Tents-and-C...n-Bags/Blacks-Quantum-300/product/094527.aspx -weighs 1.1kg with the compression bag. I am not at all keen to spend more replacing it, but are there other options much lighter?

Finally tent. My North Face Vector 22 is 2.3kg plus 700g groundsheet (the base of the tent is feeble as hell, and I would be btter off with a different tent) Any tent suggestions, especially if spacious, light, and cheap!!


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## Cathryn (21 Jan 2008)

I'm horribly jealous!! In a nice kind of way of course.

Personally, I'd always take one pair of normal shoes. I have some very light pumps type things and they're invaluable. Take the running shoes....


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## Percy (21 Jan 2008)

Not read through all the posts but I'll offer my advice from the quick scan I have had:

Pillow - I was away 9 months this year and bought a pillow after being away 2 months - really missed it camping and I agree with whoever said rolled up clothes don't cut it. Thermarest pillows are good (and yes, I saw the Thermarest debate too - I use one and wouldn't go back)

I also used cable ties while away and they were very useful for a couple of emergencies.

Sleeping bag - to go really small and light (and expensive) go with a down one. Mine's 600g I think and tiny, but expensive like I say.

My off the bike shoes were indepensible for me, but I was in rainy Europe and away for longer than three weeks and wasn't trying to go really light. In hot beachy places I only used sandals off the bike, but I see you have cycling sandals so maybe they would do - I've not seen/used them.


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## Tony (21 Jan 2008)

Hello again, Jay! Another one suggesting you ignore Bonj....
I take an Ajungilak fibre-filled pillow. I'm another who fids it makes all the difference for sleeping.
You've decided to take a kettle and leave a pan. I take two pans, with a lid that doubles as a frying pan. Boil water in small pan. Use to make tea in big mug. Pasta or whatever in the big pan, sauce to heat in the smaller one once you've made tea.


Bonj, what makes you think you'll be able to contact someone in case of mechanical failure? No mobile reception, no public phones, no traffic, no PEOPLE. I've ridden in places where it is 100 miles between spots that had a phone signal, and if there was more than one vehicle in any direction in twenty minutes it was rush hour. Bodging in those circumstances is essential.


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## Achilles (21 Jan 2008)

I have a PHD down bag - rated to 0C and a claimed 600g. Fantastic. Expensive but will last ages if looked after

I agree with Tony on the cooking kit. I have a titanium pan and a titanium mug - I can boil water in the mug if required and the great thing about titanium I have discovered is that it cools quickly - the food/drink still stays hot but you do not burn your lips on the mug. 

One method I use are lakeland soup'n sauce bags - add boiling water to quick cook pasta/porage etc and then insulate in a fleece ( be careful I have had one disaster!). Leave for a bit longer than you would have cooked it on the stove but you end up with a hot meal and zero washing up. Use pubs every couple of days if available to break the monotony!

How heavy is the tent?


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## Magna (24 Jan 2008)

New to the forum and enjoying the arguments. Much better than the kiss-ass American chat rooms. Bonj is clearly some character to have on here. I think it can be constructive to have someone with a completely alternative view to one's own.

Keep up the good work guys, I'm learning a lot and some of the banter from both sides of the debating is top notch.


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## Tony (24 Jan 2008)

Bonj's view is also alternative to reality.


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## djmc (24 Jan 2008)

My tendency is to agree with Bonj. I have cycletoured alone, while I was staying in hotels, as a point of principle I did not take any tools I could not use. I, wouldn't know what to do with a spoke thus I didn't carry one. Even just riding around the countryside I normally carry a link extractor. There is no need to carry a pedal spanner, a cone spanner is much smaller and lighter. It won't cope with enormous loads do make sure when you go that you can unscrew your pedals, a few weeks touring won't make them impossible to unscrew at the end. 
On the washing front there is very little diference between shampoo, shower gel and washing up liquid, so only take one of whichever you fancy, you can also use it for washing clothes. You don't need soap, use the previous since soap is pretty useless for washing hair. 

While my cycletouring experience is of touring from hotels, I have also camped and bivouacked while mountaineering, my attitude towards camping is camp if you have to, not otherwise. You need a good sleeping bag, down is much better than synthetic. I didn't take a pillow, I used clothes. I didn't bother with an airbed, I used a short length of karrimat. However camping on the icecap of iceland in winter I used a short length thermarest. Paraffin or petrol stoves are quicker than butane if more dangerous. If carrying food I would normally carry stuf like rice, tomato paste, dried apricots, salami sausage. Don't carry any food that is already wet eg tins of beans etc. A few herbs and spices are useful. You probably can't take these into NZ however. Freeze dried food is totally disgusting, we did use it for one night in Iceland. In general I've always tried to carry as little as possible, since speed is safety and if I carried less camping stuff I could carry more climbing or ski touring equipment without collapsing into a big heap.

I therefore take a fairly minimalist approach to camping and cycletouring, If I go by car then I will take my extra kitchen sink, however if I have to carry it myself then I will take the absolute minimum.


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## vernon (24 Jan 2008)

djmc said:


> My tendency is to agree with Bonj. I have cycletoured alone, while I was staying in hotels, as a point of principle I did not take any tools I could not use. I, wouldn't know what to do with a spoke thus I didn't carry one. Even just riding around the countryside I normally carry a link extractor. There is no need to carry a pedal spanner, a cone spanner is much smaller and lighter. It won't cope with enormous loads do make sure when you go that you can unscrew your pedals, a few weeks touring won't make them impossible to unscrew at the end.
> On the washing front there is very little diference between shampoo, shower gel and washing up liquid, so only take one of whichever you fancy, you can also use it for washing clothes. You don't need soap, use the previous since soap is pretty useless for washing hair.
> 
> While my cycletouring experience is of touring from hotels, I have also camped and bivouacked while mountaineering, my attitude towards camping is camp if you have to, not otherwise. You need a good sleeping bag, down is much better than synthetic. I didn't take a pillow, I used clothes. I didn't bother with an airbed, I used a short length of karrimat. However camping on the icecap of iceland in winter I used a short length thermarest. Paraffin or petrol stoves are quicker than butane if more dangerous. If carrying food I would normally carry stuf like rice, tomato paste, dried apricots, salami sausage. Don't carry any food that is already wet eg tins of beans etc. A few herbs and spices are useful. You probably can't take these into NZ however. Freeze dried food is totally disgusting, we did use it for one night in Iceland. In general I've always tried to carry as little as possible, since speed is safety and if I carried less camping stuff I could carry more climbing or ski touring equipment without collapsing into a big heap.
> ...



No problems with your views coinciding with Bonj's. You views however are informed by cycle touring experience albeit without a tent. Bonj's views are uninformed by the ownership of an aluminium framed bike and not a lot more.

The original poster wanted his list critiquing and, to be fair, that placed his list in the sights of all and sundry. However he has subsequently explained his reasoning for his wish to have seperate cleansing agents, the pedal spanner, pillow and thermarest. 

He's not heading for an ice cap nor is speed the essence. As his bike is carrying the load the weight of his kit is not as critical as it would be if he was on a walking holiday. I wouldn't take half the stuff that I take on a cycling holiday when I go fell walking. There again I don't go fell walking that often because I enjoy the comforts and luxuries that cycle camping allows me to have too much.


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## jay clock (24 Jan 2008)

I have already said



> Once and for all, the pedal spanner will be left with the bike box in Auckland!


so as a reminder I AM NOT TAKING A PEDAL SPANNER ON TOUR. It will be in my bag on the plane, and left in Auckland. Hopefully that is now clear.

DJMC's replies are somewhat based upon not liking to camp, and if he does camp being happy to do it at the uncomfortable end of the spectrum. It would be hell on earth for me to sleep straight on the ground, and the foam mats are no good. One of the problems here is that I cannot seem to sleep flat on my back - I am on my side, and if I was on my back I could manage easier with less of a pillow

On the comment of "my attitude towards camping is camp if you have to, not otherwise" this sounds very much like "why cycle when you could drive". Except for those who camp to save money, most camping cycle tourists I know do it for the pleasure, and even though they could afford a hotel or hostel choose not to.

I will let you know how often I bottle out and end up indoors! Hopefully I will be so knackered i will sleep like a log


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## vernon (24 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> I will let you know how often I bottle out and end up indoors! Hopefully I will be so knackered i will sleep like a log



I'm sure that you will sleep soundly. The only time my sleep was broken on tour was when the temperatures dipped unexpectedly. 2006 was unseasonably cold in the SW of England during August and on a couple of nights in 2007 I resorted to wearing gloves and a hat to help keep warm. One invaluable tip that I picked up from a fellow tourer was to take a lightweight poncho. 

It's multi funtional - a basha which I never explored
A picnic rug - tried once or twice on dampish ground it worked.
Adding a season's warmth rating to a light weight sleeping bag - worked beautifully though i suspect your silk liner will do a similar job
A belt and braces job as an extra flysheet in really heavy rain - never needed to try it.
Poncho - it worked well.
Have a great time. Look forwars to reports in due course.


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## Bigtallfatbloke (24 Jan 2008)

You asked for a cheap tent recommendation...well this is my tent. You can pick one up at Decathlon for under £70 ish

http://www.quechua.com/EN/t2-ultralight-pro-4225812/

I'm a big bloke and it works for me. Easy to put up/take down, packs down very small...2kg including all pegs, stuff sac etc It has a double skin, pitches all at once, two vents, and reasonable 'porch' (big enough to cook in if necessary). The ground sheet is thin but adequate..althoughI do also carry a footprint cut from cheap B&Q blue tarp (about £3 for enough to cover a car!)...it's also black and inconspicuos for any wild camps. It survived 40mph gusting winds last summer on the coast when other tents around me were falling apart. I would say however that this is a summer/spring tent..if I were touring in the winter I would use something else probably.


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## vernon (24 Jan 2008)

Bigtallfatbloke said:


> I would say however that this is a summer/spring tent..if I were touring in the winter I would use something else probably.



A hotel?


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## bonj2 (25 Jan 2008)

Tony said:


> Bonj, what makes you think you'll be able to contact someone in case of mechanical failure? No mobile reception, no public phones, no traffic, no PEOPLE. I've ridden in places where it is 100 miles between spots that had a phone signal, and if there was more than one vehicle in any direction in twenty minutes it was rush hour. Bodging in those circumstances is essential.


Well why is it _necessary_ to go so far away from civilisation you're 100 miles from a mobile signal let alone any other people or a village? Why do you _need_ to trek to the unexplored reaches of the forest of outer borneo to have a good time?
People forget that 'wilderness' and 'beautiful countryside' aren't necessarily synonymous. It isn't necessary to get away from all traces of human civilisation to enjoy a new and interesting part of the world. In fact often it's more interesting if there IS civilisation. A tree's a tree, we've all seen forests and rocks and beaches before. Whether they're 100 miles from the nearest mobile phone signal or just on the outskirts of a picturesque little village is immaterial really.





vernon said:


> No problems with your views coinciding with Bonj's. You views however are informed by cycle touring experience albeit without a tent. Bonj's views are uninformed by the ownership of an aluminium framed bike and not a lot more.


Ah, right. So _that's_ what all this boils down to isn't it, that's the root of all this incessant attempt to discredit anything I say. It's because i've "only" got an aluminium framed bike, I'm not down a member of this little nostalgic insider's gang the 'steel club' so therefore I obviously don't know anything about cycling do I.  If you keep saying "eeeh, thi daawnt mek 'em laaahk thi yooused teh" enough times, eventually you might be able to convince someone it's true. Although in all fairness,probably only yourself and your steel-loving cronies.


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## Chuffy (25 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> *Ah, right. So that's what all this boils down to isn't it, that's the root of all this incessant attempt to discredit anything I say. It's because i've "only" got an aluminium framed bike, I'm not down a member of this little nostalgic insider's gang the 'steel club' so therefore I obviously don't know anything about cycling do I.  *


I think it's more to do with you offering a quids worth of advice backed up by a ha'pennys worth of experience.


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## rich p (25 Jan 2008)

I think Jay C is off today or tomorrow so any further advice is probably superfluous but something tells me that Bonj will still be offering the benefits of his (in)experience!


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## jay clock (25 Jan 2008)

Thanks User....


> I reproduce your list below, with the stuff you can buy there and therefore don't need to take



not sure if I follow your logic. I have had 2-3 weeks to prepare, my shower gel is a small hotel size sample, my washing up liquid a similar size bottle taken from the main bottle. Ditto for most other of the toiletries, coffee etc. As for nail clippers, why on earth would I buy them there when I own them already? Inner tubes ditto?

Your plan of buying the toiletries etc there would involve buying a full size of each then either carrying it or binning the excess. Similar for a pack of razors when I have loose ones here. Also would need to head straight to the shops to find all that stuff. the total weight of all that stuff is about 1.5kg. So all I save is carying that amount on the flight...

Anyway I am off tomorrow. Will update you when I can!


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## Cathryn (25 Jan 2008)

JC are you regretting posting your list????


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## Danny (25 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> I have already said
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now before you go could you just explain once more about why your taking a pedal spanner in case anyone's still confused 

And have a good time. You can tell us which bits of kit you actually used when you get back.


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## Crackle (25 Jan 2008)

bonj said:


> Well why is it _necessary_ to go so far away from civilisation you're 100 miles from a mobile signal let alone any other people or a village? Why do you _need_ to trek to the unexplored reaches of the forest of outer borneo to have a good time?
> People forget that 'wilderness' and 'beautiful countryside' aren't necessarily synonymous. It isn't necessary to get away from all traces of human civilisation to enjoy a new and interesting part of the world. In fact often it's more interesting if there IS civilisation. A tree's a tree, we've all seen forests and rocks and beaches before. Whether they're 100 miles from the nearest mobile phone signal or just on the outskirts of a picturesque little village is immaterial really




Aha! Right I've cracked your first tour for you.

Packed up and ready to go, just PM your address, is a turbo, a very big fan, a shower attachment and a laptop.

You will need to setup the turbo in your bath with the shower attachment and fan pointing at you and in site of the laptop.

Once setup, you are ready for your first tour. I will be your guide and the tour you are doing is the highlands of Scotland (you're going to be making a lot of use of the shower). Instructions will come via the laptop which will have transmitted to it, pictures, resistance settings, wind and rain instructions and heatstrokes (you'll need your own fan heater, sorry). Being as it's your first tour, we will do no more than 6 hours in the saddle over a 5 day period. Normal sleeping and eating patterns will apply and you can nip down the local for a swifty at the end of the day. Just be ready for an 8am start.

So that's the Highlands, volunteers required for other areas please?


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## Over The Hill (27 Jan 2008)

Condoms? And a Bike will be handy!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (27 Jan 2008)

There is a village in France called Condom


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## summerdays (27 Jan 2008)

Good Luck - I know you have already gone. I've not done any cycle touring so I can't comment on the kit list on the whole, but some questioned the tikka headlamp. Is it not worth having a head torch for when you need to do things like pitch the tent in the dark/cook etc, or go out and check guy ropes in the middle of a storm?

I think the list was useful together with all the debate about various items, and if I was going to try a bit of touring I would find it a useful list to look at (the more so because of the comments).


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## Danny (27 Jan 2008)

Having not visited BR for months I thought I would have a look and see if anything was going on. Discovered that JC had started the same thread there, but had only received half the number of responses. And overall the discussion was much less excited than here - though I guess this may have been partly to do with an absence of posts from Bonj and the inevitable vehement counter-posts.

Overall there were few signs of life at BR so have no plan to visit again any time soon.


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## P.H (27 Jan 2008)

User76 said:


> Why take a cassette tool, and no spare cassette for instance?



You're unlikely to wear a cassette out without expecting it. On the other hand spokes go without any warning, often on the drive side and I don't know how to replace them without removing the cassette.


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## vernon (27 Jan 2008)

P.H said:


> You're unlikely to wear a cassette out without expecting it. On the other hand spokes go without any warning, often on the drive side and I don't know how to replace them without removing the cassette.



Of course one could take some emergency spokes and dispense with the cassette tool altogether. All academic really as the original poster is on his way.


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## jay clock (28 Jan 2008)

I am in fact here safely, after 27 hrs of travel!

So far so good

I have bought a new titanium stove which weighs 88g (bottle of gas is more!) so that's a few grams off! The cycling starts in earnest tomorrow

www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz for more info


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## longers (28 Jan 2008)

Have a good holiday .


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## Kirstie (31 Jan 2008)

This has got to be one of the best threads in 'tour and expedition' 
Well done team!!


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## Chuffy (31 Jan 2008)

jay clock said:


> I am in fact here safely, after 27 hrs of travel!
> 
> So far so good
> 
> ...


Good man, keep us posted on your progress.


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## wallabyhunter (31 Jan 2008)

This maybe OT, but if so I will re post where directed. However in light of CGOAB excellt web site, what is the best way to maintain/update a website while on tour?

gb


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## Tony (31 Jan 2008)

I think I've spoken to you over on CGOAB?
There are a wide range of facilities depending where you are, to state the obvious. I can't speak for North America, but in Western Europe there are cybercafes everywhere. Some allow photo uploading.
Ditto in Australia, but most of the places I found were limited to coin-op terminals in garages, with little or no upload facility.
Obviously, the wilder the tour, the less facilities there are.
At least one friend has kept their site up by way of a palmtop, with a sat link, powered/recharged by folding solar panels.


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## Tony (31 Jan 2008)

Jay, enjoy!!


And Bonj, you really, really don't understand. I assume you never leave the UK; why would you want to? I've done lots of the UK and am still doing more of it. I have toured extensively in Western Europe. My last tour was one hell of an experience, and if you can tell me where in the UK i can sit out at 3am looking at the Southern stars, in a semidesert, surrounded by feral horses, possums and kangaroos, and, more importantly, ENTIRELY self-reliant with no alternative, you can act as my guide.
I don't spend ages on an mtb, Bonj. I also don't offer any advice to people who fancy giving it a try...


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## jay clock (31 Jan 2008)

Hi there. all going well. For a tour update go to www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz

On the kit front, a few comments.

Whilst cycling round Auckland on Day 0 my gears started to play up, chain running into the spokes, and off the small rear cog too, and indexing up the spout

So when I got off the ferry in Coromandel, I up-ended the bike to sort it out. The problem was that the lockring had come off! As a result the two smallest clogs were flapping around, and the cassette was sliding left and right. Luckily I had ignored the advice of those who suggested saving the 50g that my cassette tool weighed, so was able to replace the lockring as tight as poss with the leatherman pliers, then stopped at a garage to borrow a wrench and do it properly. The nearest shop with a Shimano tool was about 140km away (Whangamata) and without the tool I suspect I would have been finger tightening it every 2-3 miles...not my idea of fun

Other than that, no kit issues. I have bought some new lightweight canvas shoes I liked, and posted the trainers back to Auckland, saving about 400g, plus a couple of the pans, keeping one pan for water boiling and can then always do noodles or pasta if pushed, but I plan to eat out anyway. There was nothing else that on reflection I thought I wanted to ditch of any significant weight.

The drybag for the tent was not 100% essential, but it was useful when I went on a speedboat, meaning I could take all my valuables, towel etc and keep them bone dry.

Comfort-wise, sleeping well. Only two tent nights so far, but the pillow arrangment is good, supplemented by an Air NZ pillow I got. The temperature at night allows use of the silk liner until about 4am when i get into the sleeping bag.

I think I now have a few days of slightly less mad hills!


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## Tony (31 Jan 2008)

Jay, if you add the crazy guy link to your signature it will be updated as you go


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## bonj2 (7 Feb 2008)

Tony said:


> Jay, enjoy!!
> 
> 
> And Bonj, you really, really don't understand. I assume you never leave the UK; why would you want to? I've done lots of the UK and am still doing more of it. I have toured extensively in Western Europe. My last tour was one hell of an experience, and if you can tell me where in the UK i can sit out at 3am looking at the Southern stars, in a semidesert, surrounded by feral horses, possums and kangaroos, and, more importantly, ENTIRELY self-reliant with no alternative, you can act as my guide.
> I don't spend ages on an mtb, Bonj. I also don't offer any advice to people who fancy giving it a try...



Well if you want to spend over 12 hours on a flight in order to be surrounded by ANY type of HORSES, then you've got a different idea of a holiday to what i have...


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## Abitrary (9 Feb 2008)

jay clock said:


> nail clippers



Sorry, lost what was going on with this thread.

Jay, what is the current story with these things.

Is the weight times volume mass squared more than the root of you getting lucky?


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## Tony (9 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> Well if you want to spend over 12 hours on a flight in order to be surrounded by ANY type of HORSES, then *you've got a different idea of a holiday to what i have.*..



Yes. We've established that. Your holiday involves driving your aluminium bike to Mexborough.


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## bonj2 (9 Feb 2008)

jay clock said:


> ...my gears started to play up, chain running into the spokes, and off the small rear cog too, and indexing up the spout
> 
> So when I got off the ferry in Coromandel, I up-ended the bike to sort it out. The problem was that the lockring had come off!





Remind me what make your bike is, so I can avoid buying products of theirs?


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## bonj2 (9 Feb 2008)

jay clock said:


> Whilst cycling *round Auckland* on Day 0 my gears started to play up, chain running into the spokes, and off the small rear cog too, and indexing up the spout
> 
> So when I got off the ferry *in Coromandel*, I up-ended the bike to sort it out. ... blah blah blah ... Luckily I had ignored the advice of those who suggested saving the 50g that my cassette tool weighed, so was able to replace the lockring as tight as poss with the leatherman pliers, then stopped at a garage to borrow a wrench and do it properly. *The nearest shop with a Shimano tool was about 140km away (Whangamata) and without the tool I suspect I would have been finger tightening it every 2-3 miles...not my idea of fun*


see this is what i'm on about, about people deliberately going up shoot creek without a paddle because they _want_ to have to hand-craft themselves a paddle.
You started having problems in Auckland, the capital city of the country and with numerous bike shops, but rather than sort it out there, you loaded your malfunctioning bike onto a ferry and then got off and thought 'ooh! shoot! my bike's gone wrong, what'll I do? I know - stop at a farm and borrow a leather tractor wrench to sort it out.'


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## bonj2 (9 Feb 2008)

in fact, if you went all the way to coromandel, you should have just popped round fab foodie's house, I'm sure he lives in the vicinity.


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## Tony (9 Feb 2008)

How is Spring in Worksop, Bonj?


I really hope, one day, that you will find something to do that will challenge and excite you.
Unfortunately, based on your posts here, it will be buying a 26" tube in Halfrauds......


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## Bonj Hovi (9 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> Remind me what make your bike is, so I can avoid buying products of theirs?



A perfect demonstration of your stupidity.

The malfunction was with the cassette not the bike.

Remind me of your IQ. 

Is it still below room temperature?


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## bonj2 (9 Feb 2008)

Tony said:


> How is Spring in Worksop, Bonj?
> 
> 
> I really hope, one day, that you will find something to do that will challenge and excite you.
> Unfortunately, based on your posts here, it will be buying a 26" tube in Halfrauds......



 you wish.


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## Bonj Hovi (9 Feb 2008)

Tony said:


> I really hope, one day, that you will find something to do that will challenge and excite you.



Tying his shoe laces?


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## bonj2 (9 Feb 2008)

it's becoming clear to me that "Bonj Hovi" is in fact just twatty tone's alter ego for when he wants to be slightly more offensive than he wants people to see him or for reasons probably best only known to himself present a different persona. 10 posts and already ripping the piss? that aint no newbie.

edit: it's also clear that ALL of those 10 posts have been in the Twatting forum.


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## Abitrary (9 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> it's becoming clear to me that "Bonj Hovi" is in fact just twatty tone's alter ego for when he wants to be slightly more offensive than he wants people to see him or for reasons probably best only known to himself present a different persona. 10 posts and already ripping the piss? that aint no newbie.
> 
> edit: it's also clear that ALL of those 10 posts have been in the Twatting forum.



I spent about 10 minutes trying to work out if it was someone interesting.

Obviously not. Just having a quick read of Tony's posts reveals they have the same 'interestingness' footprint


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## bonj2 (10 Feb 2008)

Abitrary said:


> I spent about 10 minutes trying to work out if it was someone interesting.
> 
> Obviously not. Just having a quick read of Tony's posts reveals they have the same 'interestingness' footprint



and, _seven_ out of his 10 posts are ripping the piss out of ME specifically (yes, that's 70%, I should be flattered really), 1's calling you a "sad dolphin", and the others are
"Baa Ba Bahahaaaa = Klingon is spoken by tossers in Sad Goatese", and
"Dolphins are not that intelligent. They've not figured out how to ride a bike."


what saddo sets up a specific username JUST to attack others? Can only conclude he sees us 'radicals' as some sort of threat to his perceived superiority, which incidentally is perceived by only himself


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## longers (10 Feb 2008)

I think that Tony has better things to do with his time than create virtual punters to try and score points. He's not shy about saying what he does and doesn't agree with.


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## Tony (10 Feb 2008)

Just spotted this. How flattering of Bonj. So he's a radical.... Free or acid?


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## Bonj Hovi (10 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> and, _seven_ out of his 10 posts are ripping the piss out of ME specifically (yes, that's 70%, I should be flattered really), 1's calling you a "sad dolphin", and the others are
> "Baa Ba Bahahaaaa = Klingon is spoken by tossers in Sad Goatese", and
> "Dolphins are not that intelligent. They've not figured out how to ride a bike."
> 
> ...



What saddo feels it necessary to defend another saddo who claims to speak Klingon?

Bonj you are a true prat.

Oh while I'm at it - you just can't avoid making assumptions can you?

You've assumed that I'm male.

You've assumed I'm called Tony.

I thought I saw your name on a loaf of bread then I realised it said 'thick cut'


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## Tony (10 Feb 2008)

You are making me giggle. 's not fair.....

And how does Bonj know that I am called Tony?
Bonj. A radical. That rides an aluminium alloy-framed mtb downhill after driving it somewhere in a car. How radical.....
Perhaps he took the mould-breakingly radical step of buying the BSO in Half'd's....


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## vernon (10 Feb 2008)

Bonj Hovi said:


> What saddo feels it necessary to defend another saddo who claims to speak Klingon?
> 
> Bonj you are a true prat.
> 
> ...


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## bonj2 (10 Feb 2008)

Bonj Hovi said:


> What saddo feels it necessary to defend another saddo who claims to speak Klingon?
> 
> Bonj you are a true prat.
> 
> ...





Tony said:


> You are making me igle. 's not fair.....
> 
> And how does Bonj know that I am called Tony?
> Bonj. A radical. That rides an aluminium alloy-framed mtb downhill after driving it somewhere in a car. How radical.....
> Perhaps he took the mould-breakingly radical step of buying the BSO in Half'd's....



same old, same old. you're both the same old fat bearded twatty tone, it's so obvious it's untrue. case closed.  if you don't like what i have to say, set up your own forum and bar me from it.

If you don't like me, and don't hold out any chance or wish of reconciliation, just do what spindrift does - put me on your ignore list and IGNORE me. Don't wind yourself up and get yourself all hot and bothered and angry - 'cos i'll not go away, and as you know i've got a very thick skin, so there's no point wheeling out all the personal insults you can think of about what you imagine my life to be hoping that i'll get bored and go away - 'cos i won't. you'll not do your blood pressure any good.


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## bonj2 (10 Feb 2008)

sorry about the fat bearded comment by the way, no hard feelings i hope.  I meant big boned.


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## rich p (10 Feb 2008)

FFS you lot, Jay Clock posted an innocent question about his kit. He already knew largely what he was taking and he's now long gone to NZ. Why the hostility? Let it go.

Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean, calm ........


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## Tony (10 Feb 2008)

Oh, Jay's off on his ride and posting happily elsewhere. The rest of us are just enjoying poking a monkey.
Yes I am fat, Bonj, but how far can you ride in a day? Is it JUST your skin that's thick, or will I need to give you the, er, third degree to find out...
And no, I am not Bonj Hovi. Am enjoying it though!


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## bonj2 (10 Feb 2008)

rich p said:


> FFS you lot, Jay Clock posted an innocent question about his kit. He already knew largely what he was taking and he's now long gone to NZ. Why the hostility? Let it go.
> 
> Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean, calm ........



well he started it 



Tony said:


> Oh, Jay's off on his ride and posting happily elsewhere. The rest of us are just enjoying poking a monkey.
> Yes I am fat, Bonj, but how far can you ride in a day? Is it JUST your skin that's thick, or will I need to give you the, er, third degree to find out...
> And no, I am not Bonj Hovi. Am enjoying it though!



how far CAN I ride, or how far can i BE BOTHERED to ride?

and, do please enlighten me, what would the 'third degree' consist of??


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## jay clock (11 Feb 2008)

Thanks for the the comments and invective totally irrelevant to my trip!!

Am having a great time. In answer to my own original question there is little I regret adding to the kit, so long as I am camping. However I could have avoided camping in nearly every location by using hostels, or occasionally paying over the odds for a cabin or caravan (sleeps 4 so poor value for 1). I had one motel night at $75 (30 quid).

So, I am going back to Aukland on the bus tomorrow, dropping all non essential stuff (ie down to 2 panniers, and heading to Northland)

Happy fighting!


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## Tony (12 Feb 2008)

Enjoy, Jay!


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## Tony (12 Feb 2008)

Bonj, you told us you knew all about third degrees.....


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## Bonj Hovi (12 Feb 2008)

bonj said:


> If you don't like me, and don't hold out any chance or wish of reconciliation, just do what spindrift does - put me on your ignore list and IGNORE me. Don't wind yourself up and get yourself all hot and bothered and angry - 'cos i'll not go away, and as you know i've got a very thick skin, so there's no point wheeling out all the personal insults you can think of about what you imagine my life to be hoping that i'll get bored and go away - 'cos i won't. you'll not do your blood pressure any good.



As an expert Bonj claims that he is: 
A know-all, a savant, a whizz
When challenged he stamps,
Shouts, pouts and then he rants
Before getting into a tizz


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## Bonj Hovi (12 Feb 2008)

jay clock said:


> Thanks for the the comments and invective totally irrelevant to my trip!!
> 
> Am having a great time. In answer to my own original question there is little I regret adding to the kit, so long as I am camping. However I could have avoided camping in nearly every location by using hostels, or occasionally paying over the odds for a cabin or caravan (sleeps 4 so poor value for 1). I had one motel night at $75 (30 quid).
> 
> ...



Just out of interest, what are you jettisoning? I wish I could get down to two panniers when cycle touring.


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## jay clock (12 Feb 2008)

I will jettison all camping stuff except sleeping bag. Will keep one set offbike clothes, spare set bike clothes, arm and leg warmer, rain jacket, wash stuff. For 3-4 days I should be fine. Will also reduce tubes to one spare from 3 as touch wood no p*nctures so far


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## Tony (12 Feb 2008)

Bivvy or survival bag?


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## Abitrary (12 Feb 2008)

rich p said:


> FFS you lot, Jay Clock posted an innocent question about his kit. He already knew largely what he was taking and he's now long gone to NZ. Why the hostility? Let it go.



It would be interesting to see a list of what Jay brings back with him, so we can compare what he brought with him.

Only then can individual items be vindicated.

I'm particularly interested in the fate of the nail clippers.


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## vernon (12 Feb 2008)

Abitrary said:


> It would be interesting to see a list of what Jay brings back with him, so we can compare what he brought with him.
> 
> Only then can individual items be vindicated.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in the fate of the nail clippers.



I had to resort to buying some nail clippers on my first LEJOG ride. I'm sure that my toe nails had a growth spurt ojn the ride.

With the exceptpion of food I nearly always return with more than I set out with. All of my 'losses' are normally the result of poor packing or forgetfulness i.e. a pair of Aldi cycling specs languishing somewhere in Ayreshire, a bike lock in Exford, a pair of cheap flip flops somewhere in Provence.

All items can be vindicated if they give peace of mind.


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## Abitrary (12 Feb 2008)

vernon said:


> I had to resort to buying some nail clippers on my first LEJOG ride. I'm sure that my toe nails had a growth spurt ojn the ride.
> 
> With the exceptpion of food I nearly always return with more than I set out with. All of my 'losses' are normally the result of poor packing or forgetfulness i.e. a pair of Aldi cycling specs languishing somewhere in Ayreshire, a bike lock in Exford, a pair of cheap flip flops somewhere in Provence.
> 
> All items can be vindicated if they give peace of mind.



Regarding the nail clippers, that sounds like boredom to me, and I've always suspected it. A small battery TV or radio would be a useful substitute for when the reality of touring kicks in.

The quantity of what he brings back compared with what he bought i don't think is necessarily accurate, but I think a Venn diagram would be a more useful way of representing it.


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## vernon (12 Feb 2008)

Abitrary said:


> Regarding the nail clippers, that sounds like boredom to me, and I've always suspected it. A small battery TV or radio would be a useful substitute for when the reality of touring kicks in.
> 
> The quantity of what he brings back compared with what he bought i don't think is necessarily accurate, but I think a Venn diagram would be a more useful way of representing it.



I can assure you that the nail clippers were a much cheaper option than a visit to a chiropodist to have my toe nails trimmed. My shoes had become very uncomfortable because of the length of my nails. 

The battery TV or radio could not be substituted for the nail clippers as they had no sharp edges that could be used for nail trimming purposes.

I'd show it on a Venn diagram but I wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps you could help?


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## Abitrary (12 Feb 2008)

vernon said:


> I'd show it on a Venn diagram but I wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps you could help?



Hang on, was I not talking about Jay Clock? You can do a hypothetical one if you want, but I was more expecting Jay to do one when he got back... just keeping in the spirit of the thread...

A venn diagram is really very easy though, in concept and execution


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## Tony (12 Feb 2008)

But can it either trim nails or get the World Service?

Seriously, I take an MP3 for evenings in middle of buggerall. Worth it.


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## jay clock (12 Feb 2008)

I will hopefully go past Whangaporoa. Plan is to do three days, Paihia to Broadwood, then to Taipa then back to Paihia with a day off in Russell or a boat trip on Sunday.

Nail clippers are IN the two small panniers I have whittled down to. I have snagged nails almost daily and having neat nails is high on my comfort list. Ripping them on things is common for me when out in the open

In answer to whether I would have taken everything I took, I will review later, but if I had to camp anywhere other than NZ, then probably yes. I had three spare tubes as it was a new bike with unknown tyres. Have whittled down to 2.

news here www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz


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## Abitrary (12 Feb 2008)

jay clock said:


> *Nail clippers are IN the two small panniers I have whittled down to.* I have snagged nails almost daily and having neat nails is high on my comfort list. Ripping them on things is common for me when out in the open



It's not a debate about whether you use them or not, but about whether you're going to get lucky or not.

Have trimmed toenails up till this point improved your chances? If not, then jetison them.


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## punkypossum (13 Feb 2008)

Russell is a bit boring, seems to be a sort of pensioners' retirement island...nice tho...


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## vernon (13 Feb 2008)

Abitrary said:


> Hang on, was I not talking about Jay Clock? You can do a hypothetical one if you want, but I was more expecting Jay to do one when he got back... just keeping in the spirit of the thread...
> 
> A venn diagram is really very easy though, in concept and execution



Nope you had definitely quoted me in your reponse regarding the nail clippers.

Now about your assistance with the Venn diagram. Is it forthcoming?


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## ASC1951 (13 Feb 2008)

andrew_s said:


> The thermarest is the single biggest improvement in camping equipment in the last 30 years


Absolutely. It might seem bulky and heavy, but the lightweigh one packs fairly small and I always find it reassuring to know that I will get a comfortable night's sleep no matter how stoney or scrubby the pitch is - particularly important if you're wild camping and setting out your stuff around dusk.

Like a lot of people on the forum (but not Bonj, allegedly) I have done several thousand miles cycle touring; 'proper' touring i.e. with tent and cooking kit, not hostelling. Not that there is anything wrong with hostelling, but it doesn't need the full kit list.

My tenpennorth: I take fewer and more versatile clothes, none of the electrical kit and less of the emergency stuff. Yes, it is nice to be able to deal with every problem from your own resources, but adaptability and a philosophical attitude get you a long way as well. For solo touring you need to be pretty ruthless with kit and my starting point is always 'what will happen if I don't have this?' rather than 'would this be nice to have?'

By now your three weeks will have told you more about what you do and don't need than all our sensible advice, even Bonj's.


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## Abitrary (13 Feb 2008)

vernon said:


> Nope you had definitely quoted me in your reponse regarding the nail clippers.
> 
> Now about your assistance with the Venn diagram. Is it forthcoming?



A venn diagram (as I'm sure you really know) is used to describe sets in maths, and uses overlapping circles.

For example, you could have 4 intersecting circles titled as so:

1)the original list of stuff to bring
2)the list after peoples advice on here
3)the stuff I actually brought on the day in a hurry
4)the stuff I came back with


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## Tony (14 Feb 2008)

Thermarests......I camped at Grasspatch on hardpack that meant I had to use rocks to hold the guys down, as pegging was impossible. I slept well.


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## Rhythm Thief (14 Feb 2008)

On the other hand ... they are more vulnerable to punctures than the old style expanded foam rollmats. (I speak as a Thermarest user myself, although until recently I used a very lightweight £2.99 skinny foam mat covered in foil and got a perfectly good night's sleep on it.)


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## wallabyhunter (14 Feb 2008)

Hey Tony,


> I camped at Grasspatch on hardpack that meant I had to use rocks to hold the guys down



Them d@mn3d easterlys can be a bu993r. I think I would've stayed in Northam! Although Grass Patch is a nice name to have on your itinarary!
gb


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## vernon (14 Feb 2008)

User76 said:


> I have one of these self inflating mats. £17.50 Bloody bargain, and as good as the therma-rest my mate uses, *and* with a free bag



I got a free bag with my Therma-rest.


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## vernon (14 Feb 2008)

User76 said:


> But I only paid £17.50, thermarests are about £35-£45 minimum.



Mine was £20 in a sale. I wouldn't have contemplated buying it otherwise.


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## jay clock (15 Feb 2008)

my thermarest is a Prolite 4 (I think) and was a present. It weighs 680g and is superb.

I will do an update when I get back of what I took etc and what I would have left. Essentially if camping I would pretty much have taken everything - the key point is that I had always had options not to camp.

Journal updated here www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz . I did see a UK cyclist day who clearly subscribed to the "leave the wash kit behind" plan. A filthy and smelly person who had the Kiwis sniffing at him and glowering.... luckily my neatly clipped nails have been an intro to friendships, accommodation and a great time!


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## rich p (15 Feb 2008)

Those nails!! If only I'd known it was the secret of attracting girls 30 years ago!


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## Tony (15 Feb 2008)

wallabyhunter said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> 
> Them d@mn3d easterlys can be a bu993r. I think I would've stayed in Northam! Although Grass Patch is a nice name to have on your itinarary!
> gb



Easterlies.....all the way from Denmark to Esperance. Horrible wind.


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## jay clock (20 Aug 2008)

Just re-read this and realised I never came back with a final final update.

So here it is line by line!

bottles ESSENTIAL
lights NEEDED. They are very light basic LED ones fine for around town

Sleeping bag -Blacks down bag was fine - needed it zipped up some nights
Thermarest - never really found it comfy. Have Ebayed it and just got an Exped Downmat 7 - EXCELLENT!
Pillow had a cheap inflatable one, plus a small hollowfil one. Now got a v lighweight one from Decathlon, wrapped with fleece etc and that seems fine
Silk liner - used every time, partic in hostels
Tent - big for one person (good) but 2,3kg plus a 700g ground sheet. Have now bought a Decathlon T2 Ultralight Pro at 1.7kg and can prob manage without ground sheet, or at least a smaller or lighter one. Have not yet tried it
groundsheet - see above


IN SUMMARY I could have avoided camping in NZ. Even in the remotest areas as a lone traveller I could have always found a bed. Hostels are cheap and a great way to meet people


Gas stove I bought a local titanium one - only 80g plus the bottle 
lighter - needed
Pans - hardly cooked at all. One small one would have been ok
Spatula, plate, cutlery, bowl, cup. All used and needed. Could have left spatula due to lack of cooking
food tubs + bottles. V useful to have light tupperware type tubs and zip up bags
coffee essential
washup liq- useful but due to lack of cooking could have managed without
sponge
swiss penknife - took steak knife - useful for the small amt of cooking I did

cycling shirt short sleeves took 2 - perfect
baggy shorts lycra took 2 perfect
triathlon shorts used several times for swimming and once for running
SPD sandals perfect!
bandana can't recall but think I used it.

Short fingered gloves - yes
Helmet worn all the time
arm and leg warmers needed once - well worth it
Buff worn daily
sunglasses worn all the time
sunglasses case left behind
ultralight jacket left behind
Goretex jacket ESSENTIAL

camera essential
camera charger essential. cable cut short and with french plug so v light
tripod tiny lightweight one
phone charger essential
tikka headlamp essential and very useful for reading in tent and hostel
ipod - very nice to have
ipod charger shares cable with camera 
power adapter uk to kiwi essential

shower gel took one small bottle and refilled from leftovers or in hotels etc
shampoo used shower gel
hand cream 10g Nutrogena snaple - very useful
hand gel cleansing gel - small bottle. quite useful
razor 3 disposable
tooth brush essential
tooth paste small travel tube
floss yes 
shaving gel King of Shaves small tube of serum - excellent
nurofen yes
deo small aerosols
nail clippers - YES
suncream P20 OUTSTANDING STUFF. Put on in morning and no burning at all
lipsalve essential
wetwipes great
tissues essential
Washing liquid essential and bought more there twice. Much cheaper
mozzie can;t remember using it
plasters/first aid may have used a plaster or two
sewing kit. only 8g - think I used it
flannel/sponge used daily in shower

rough guide Very very useful and great to read at night etc
NZ map 1:200k road atlas with pages ripped out. Essential

NOW UP TO DATE - all new entries in blue

Compass/thermomter used - tiny one on key ring
coat hangers - took length of nylon rope instead - worked a treat
pegs - yes....very useful
notebook yes

light fleece yes
ordinary socks yes
pants yes
trousers - zip off Craghopper kiwis
t shirt yes
base layer yes
ordinary shorts no, used zip offs
ordinary shoes - running shoes, sent back when i bought beach shoes
towel - microfibre
baseball cap yes

wallet yes
passport yes
mobiles yes
Bum bag no
goggles yes
eye mask - yes - great for camping
ear plugs yes
notebook and pen yes

cable ties yes
lock yes
spokes yes. fixed on frame
spare cleats/bolts no
multitool yes
inner tube yes 2 or 3 but no p*nctures
puncture kit yes
chaintool yes
pedal spanner left in Auckland
cassette tool yes and needed it!
fake leatherman yes
lubricant yes
latex gloves yes
bungees/straps on bike rack 
spare pads yes
spare cables yes
pepper spray no, and no dog problems


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## Tony (20 Aug 2008)

Welcome back!
Just finished the latest Josie Dew and thought of you--she had a little something confiscated by NZ customs...


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## Danny (20 Aug 2008)

So Bonj was right about the Thermarest after all


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## Chuffy (21 Aug 2008)

Tony said:


> Welcome back!
> Just finished the latest Josie Dew and thought of you--she had a little something confiscated by NZ customs...


Her banananana smuggling technique was never very sophisticated...


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## Tony (22 Aug 2008)

Chuffy said:


> Her banananana smuggling technique was never very sophisticated...



A bit like your famous technique for smuggling animal horns?


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## jay clock (22 Aug 2008)

I HAVE NOW UPDATED IT IN FULL 
Just re-read this and realised I never came back with a final final update.

So here it is line by line!

bottles ESSENTIAL
lights NEEDED. They are very light basic LED ones fine for around town

Sleeping bag -Blacks down bag was fine - needed it zipped up some nights
Thermarest - never really found it comfy. Have Ebayed it and just got an Exped Downmat 7 - EXCELLENT!
Pillow had a cheap inflatable one, plus a small hollowfil one. Now got a v lighweight one from Decathlon, wrapped with fleece etc and that seems fine
Silk liner - used every time, partic in hostels
Tent - big for one person (good) but 2,3kg plus a 700g ground sheet. Have now bought a Decathlon T2 Ultralight Pro at 1.7kg and can prob manage without ground sheet, or at least a smaller or lighter one. Have not yet tried it
groundsheet - see above


IN SUMMARY I could have avoided camping in NZ. Even in the remotest areas as a lone traveller I could have always found a bed. Hostels are cheap and a great way to meet people


Gas stove I bought a local titanium one - only 80g plus the bottle 
lighter - needed
Pans - hardly cooked at all. One small one would have been ok
Spatula, plate, cutlery, bowl, cup. All used and needed. Could have left spatula due to lack of cooking
food tubs + bottles. V useful to have light tupperware type tubs and zip up bags
coffee essential
washup liq- useful but due to lack of cooking could have managed without
sponge
swiss penknife - took steak knife - useful for the small amt of cooking I did

cycling shirt short sleeves took 2 - perfect
baggy shorts lycra took 2 perfect
triathlon shorts used several times for swimming and once for running
SPD sandals perfect!
bandana can't recall but think I used it.

Short fingered gloves - yes
Helmet worn all the time
arm and leg warmers needed once - well worth it
Buff worn daily
sunglasses worn all the time
sunglasses case left behind
ultralight jacket left behind
Goretex jacket ESSENTIAL

camera essential
camera charger essential. cable cut short and with french plug so v light
tripod tiny lightweight one
phone charger essential
tikka headlamp essential and very useful for reading in tent and hostel
ipod - very nice to have
ipod charger shares cable with camera 
power adapter uk to kiwi essential

shower gel took one small bottle and refilled from leftovers or in hotels etc
shampoo used shower gel
hand cream 10g Nutrogena snaple - very useful
hand gel cleansing gel - small bottle. quite useful
razor 3 disposable
tooth brush essential
tooth paste small travel tube
floss yes 
shaving gel King of Shaves small tube of serum - excellent
nurofen yes
deo small aerosols
nail clippers - YES
suncream P20 OUTSTANDING STUFF. Put on in morning and no burning at all
lipsalve essential
wetwipes great
tissues essential
Washing liquid essential and bought more there twice. Much cheaper
mozzie can;t remember using it
plasters/first aid may have used a plaster or two
sewing kit. only 8g - think I used it
flannel/sponge used daily in shower

rough guide Very very useful and great to read at night etc
NZ map 1:200k road atlas with pages ripped out. Essential

NOW UP TO DATE - all new entries in blue

Compass/thermomter used - tiny one on key ring
coat hangers - took length of nylon rope instead - worked a treat
pegs - yes....very useful
notebook yes

light fleece yes
ordinary socks yes
pants yes
trousers - zip off Craghopper kiwis
t shirt yes
base layer yes
ordinary shorts no, used zip offs
ordinary shoes - running shoes, sent back when i bought beach shoes
towel - microfibre
baseball cap yes

wallet yes
passport yes
mobiles yes
Bum bag no
goggles yes
eye mask - yes - great for camping
ear plugs yes
notebook and pen yes

cable ties yes
lock yes
spokes yes. fixed on frame
spare cleats/bolts no
multitool yes
inner tube yes 2 or 3 but no p*nctures
puncture kit yes
chaintool yes
pedal spanner left in Auckland
cassette tool yes and needed it!
fake leatherman yes
lubricant yes
latex gloves yes
bungees/straps on bike rack 
spare pads yes
spare cables yes
pepper spray no, and no dog problems


----------

