# No - Nose (Noseless) Bike Saddle Seat



## Kleban (10 Dec 2011)

I found this information on another forum. As a relatively newcomer to cycling I'm posting this without comment. However, I'm interested in reading your thoughts on this.

Bicycle saddles and reproductive health (USA website)
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/bike/

NIOSH National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
NIOSH is piloting the use of videos on YouTube to generate curiosity on the benefits of using a no-nose (noseless) bike seat saddle for bicycle police officers. By working with several partners, including the police departments of Chicago, Las Vegas, Miami Beach, San Antonio, and Seattle, NIOSH developed a video with footage of bicycle police officers using a no-nose seat as a part of their daily safety check. Why is a no-nose bike seat part of their daily safety check? View the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEzfgS36eEE


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## Dan B (10 Dec 2011)

http://quickrelease.tv/?p=562 - you might find this relevant


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## Zoiders (10 Dec 2011)

Not this old chestnut.

You may as well post a poll asking who has a limp noodle.

Some bugger somewhere must have a shiping container full of those sodding saddles which they can't shift and has spent the last ten years trying to flog them all.


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## numbnuts (10 Dec 2011)

I'm thinking of buying this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Selle-SMP...586562613&po=&ps=63&clkid=4796822131948074041


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## Bicycle (10 Dec 2011)

I've heard this kind of thing over the years as a slightly giggly story... I had no idea it was serious.

Once I'd caused the birth of my three children, a kindly surgeon reduced almost to zero the chance of my becoming the progenitor of any further human life.

When I was still young enough to enjoy romance and the slightly sweatier activities associated with it, I do not believe I suffered the adverse effects of cycling on my conduct. 

As a man, I care not two figs whether anyone else present during romance noticed anything amiss. If I enjoyed it, surely they did too?


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## Bigsharn (11 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> ...You may as well post a poll asking who has a limp noodle.


 
You rang?

Na seriously. I've been riding saddles with noses for ten years (throughout puberty, I might add) and have no health problems... there.


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## dave r (11 Dec 2011)

I've been cycling for over 40 years and have never had problems with the family jewels, everything works perfectly and always has done. If you're having problems in that department just check how you have the saddle set up. This story about the noseless saddles does the rounds regular and often.


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## Gbola (11 Dec 2011)

dave r said:


> I've been cycling for over 40 years and have never had problems with the family jewels, everything works perfectly and always has done. If you're having problems in that department just check how you have the saddle set up. This story about the noseless saddles does the rounds regular and often.


 
Your statement is a classic example of one man anecdotal evidence. Research have shown prolong perineal pressure is associated with erectile dysfunction and I personally welcome no nose saddles as it at least to provide solution to the problem.


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## dave r (11 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Your statement is a classic example of one man anecdotal evidence. Research have shown prolong perineal pressure is associated with erectile dysfunction and I personally welcome no nose saddles as it at least to provide solution to the problem.


 
????? My post was just a statement of how it is not anecdotal evidence, I'm just about sixty now, still cycling,did 53 miles this morning, still capable of an impressive boner and still with an active sex live. This noseless saddle thing has been going the rounds on the internet at intervals for many years. If you set your saddle up correctly theres no perineal pressure and no problem, when you sit a bike you sit on your sit bones no where else.


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## derrick (11 Dec 2011)

To late for me to start worrying about that, have been firing blanks for years, lol


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## Gbola (11 Dec 2011)

Erectile


dave r said:


> ????? My post was just a statement of how it is not anecdotal evidence, I'm just about sixty now, still cycling,did 53 miles this morning, still capable of an impressive boner and still with an active sex live. This noseless saddle thing has been going the rounds on the internet at intervals for many years. If you set your saddle up correctly theres no perineal pressure and no problem, when you sit a bike you sit on your sit bones no where else.


There is scientific evidence that cycling especially in an upright position rather than reclining position is associated with reduced oxygen flow to the tip of the penis and erectile dysfunction. Here are some links to the papers http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534705617065 ; http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...oduktNr=224083&Ausgabe=226813&ArtikelNr=52533.
You are an individual with unique characteristics and ways of cycling. The argument is about cyclists as a group compared to similar group of non cyclists. It is not about an individual.


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## dave r (11 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Erectile
> There is scientific evidence that cycling especially in an upright position rather than reclining position is associated with reduced oxygen flow to the tip of the penis and erectile dysfunction. Here are some links to the papers http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534705617065 ; http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...oduktNr=224083&Ausgabe=226813&ArtikelNr=52533.
> You are an individual with unique characteristics and ways of cycling. The argument is about cyclists as a group compared to similar group of non cyclists. It is not about an individual.


 
So how come most cyclists I know are happily married people with families, its not just about me its about what I see around me, obviously its not a subject for discussion at the cafe stop, but most of my cycling friends are family people, the ones I've seen get married over the years haven't had problems having children.


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## Gbola (11 Dec 2011)

dave r said:


> So how come most cyclists I know are happily married people with families, its not just about me its about what I see around me, obviously its not a subject for discussion at the cafe stop, but most of my cycling friends are family people, the ones I've seen get married over the years haven't had problems having children.


This still remains your individual experience, not scientific evidence. Meanwhile, erectile dysfunction and infertility/fertility are two different things, please don't mix them up. It is only the woman who is sure of the father of her children


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## Bicycle (11 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Erectile
> 
> You are an individual with unique characteristics and ways of cycling. The argument is about cyclists as a group compared to similar group of non cyclists. It is not about an individual.



We are all individuals with unique characteristics. I and many of the middle-aged, male cyclists I know are also providers of anecdotal evidence.

This topic is a bit of a joke amongst my male cycling friends, most lifelong cyclists, most romantically active, most with two or more children.

I worry about many things, but not this. Nor does anyone I know. 

On the matter of sweaty romantic activity, I'm pretty sure that being reasonably fit and having good lung function and slimmer lines than I might otherwise have (through regular cycling on a traditional razor-like saddle) has been more of a boon than a curse.

I'm much more worried that Spurs might finish higher than the Greatest Team the World Has Ever Seen. Much, much more.


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## TheDoctor (11 Dec 2011)

If the saddle is causing erectile dysfunction it's set up wrong - nose far too high.
Long before causing dysfunction, you'd have noticed pins and needles and general numbness in the area concerned. Don't ask me how I know this...
It's an utter non-story pushed by makers of peculiar saddles, and it comes out every so often, usually after oval chainrings and before L-shaped cranks.
It is, (if you'll pardon the expression) pure bollocks. If it was really that pressing a problem, we'd all be riding 'bents. I furthermore invite you to consider female anatomy in the saddle region. They've got rather more in the way of fragile and sensitive bodily structures down there...


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## dave r (11 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> This still remains your individual experience, not scientific evidence. Meanwhile, erectile dysfunction and infertility/fertility are two different things, please don't mix them up. It is only the woman who is sure of the father of her children


 
If a couple are having children it needs both to function, if one is not functioning they wont have children, not without the help of the fertility clinic. If the women is having an affair the marriage wont last.



TheDoctor said:


> If the saddle is causing erectile dysfunction it's set up wrong - nose far too high.
> Long before causing dysfunction, you'd have noticed pins and needles and general numbness in the area concerned. Don't ask me how I know this...
> It's an utter non-story pushed by makers of peculiar saddles, and it comes out every so often, usually after oval chainrings and before L-shaped cranks.
> It is, (if you'll pardon the expression) pure bollocks. If it was really that pressing a problem, we'd all be riding 'bents. I furthermore invite you to consider female anatomy in the saddle region. They've got rather more in the way of fragile and sensitive bodily structures down there...


 
+ 1 on that. I talked about correct bike set up in my second post, you sit on the the sit bones in your arse, if you have pressure else where you have your set up wrong


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## brokenflipflop (11 Dec 2011)

Well I've purchased a Brooks saddle because.....

Sex is borin', pain is fun,
I wanna cut me fingers off one by one,
There ain't no point in stayin' alive,
I wanna be dead when I'm 25.....

Seriously though. That bit between my balls and arse is absolutely killing me.


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## TheDoctor (11 Dec 2011)

The last time I rode a Brooks saddle it was very comfy indeed.
It had had a good amount of time to mould itself to the bottom of its owner.
Sadly for orthodox wisdom, that owner was not me.
That owner wasn't even the same gender as me.
Very comfy saddle though.
Evidently my ar$e is the same shape as Plax's...


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## Fletch456 (12 Dec 2011)

+1 For SMP Selle Italia saddles. Going to get myself one at some point in the new year. The nose points down and they have the biggest cut out of any saddle on the market. Used on any wet rides without mudguards I will be putting tape underneath for all the water that will come through it! You can get your hand in it. They also have the longest rails of any saddle on the market which gives greatest range for seat position which is one of the reasons bike fitter Steve Hogg likes them and writes about them here

I've been using an Arione for a couple of years but my "soft tissue" definitely isnt 100% comfortable in all positions so get some discomfort at some point during a ride. Enough for me to now consider others and going to get an SMP on test from The Bike Whisperer at some point in the new year. Another reason is my adductors (inner upper thigh muscles) are often strained from the wing bits of the Arione that are meant to break off with time...


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## mr_hippo (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Your statement is a classic example of one man anecdotal evidence. Research have shown prolong perineal pressure is associated with erectile dysfunction and I personally welcome no nose saddles as it at least to provide solution to the problem.


Have you tried riding with a no nose saddle? Try one out first before commenting on them. The saddle's nose is a very important feature. On a 'normal' saddle, the rider does have the luxury of being able to move fore and aft as conditions dictate: not so on a 'noseless'. The nose also assists with cornering when the inner thigh presses against it.
Have I tried one? My late wife bought me a Hobsons Easy Seat - http://hobsonseats.com/new/ - tried it out for a few hundred miles on my hybrid. My verdict - what a waste of money!
Please feel free to start a poll and ask on this forum and other cycling forums how many men suffer from erectile dysfunction that is entirely due to cycling and not other reasons.


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## Fletch456 (12 Dec 2011)

Dan B said:


> http://quickrelease.tv/?p=562 - you might find this relevant


 
Very interesting article.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Fletch456 said:


> Very interesting article.


Did you read the article well and the unsupported opinions used to counteract the scientific opinion. I am a cyclist myself but I do not deceive myself that cycling does not have his risks. Nobody on this forum has so far shown a scientific paper that has disproven the effect of cycling saddles on the perineum. Do you think millions of cyclists know anything about adjusting saddle positions. Anything that would encourage others to cycle and reduce its disadvantage is welcoming to me. At least I know I have the option of noseless or cut-out saddle to prescribe to people that are worried or disturbed about the perineal pressure.
The claim of me and my friends are about 60 year old and I have been cycling for 40 odd years does not hold water in a scientific arena. Do not fall into the common danger of enthusiasts of a sport ''it is 100% beneficial'. Nothing it is.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

numbnuts said:


> I'm thinking of buying this one
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Selle-SMP-TRK-Man-Road-Bike-MTB-Seat-Saddle-Brown-/150664981572?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo=DLSL%2BSIC.NPJS&its=I&itu=UCI%2BUA&otn=10&pmod=160586562613%2B160586562613&po=&ps=63&clkid=4796822131948074041


Good on you. I would do the same when I have the means.


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## strofiwimple (12 Dec 2011)

http://www.moonsaddle.com/

Just to add another saddle to the argument


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## ianrauk (12 Dec 2011)

Fletch456 said:


> +1 For SMP Selle Italia saddles. Going to get myself one at some point in the new year. The nose points down and they have the biggest cut out of any saddle on the market. Used on any wet rides without mudguards I will be putting tape underneath for all the water that will come through it!


 
I have one...as you can see in this pic.. probably the most comfortable saddle I have ever had/have.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

strofiwimple said:


> http://www.moonsaddle.com/
> 
> Just to add another saddle to the argument


Another dimension to the saddle variety. However, I like their looks. My perineum must remain free from pressure whether in sitting or aero position. My crutch would not be crushed!


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## Fnaar (12 Dec 2011)

My saddle's got no nose.
How does it smell?
Blooming awful!


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

I used to have a noseless saddle on my Grifter, owing to the rather poor design about a third of the big lump of sponge pretending to be a seat fell off, eventually an extra third of saddle at the back fell off too, leaving me with a strip a couple of inches wide to perch on.


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## oldroadman (12 Dec 2011)

A properly set up saddfle should cause no problems. The sympton of numbness points to a nose maybe a fraction too high. Cut outs can help with perineal pressure, but the majority of pros don't use them, and their time in the saddle is generally longer than mere mortals. and there does not appear to be a lack of offspring or happy ladies in their lives. Originally the cut out appeared on "female specific" saddles, to minimise friction in a sensitive area, then migrated to the general market.
Like most things about comfort on the bike, if it works and you like it, fine. pay your money and take your choice. But "noseless", why???
Marketing ploy by someone with a load of cheap seats made in China, most likely.
Be careful, this is how shell helmets started out and look where we are now (lights blue touchpaper and retires rapidly!).


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## MontyVeda (12 Dec 2011)

with the worlds population over 7 billion, I think they should start designing saddles with do cause ED


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Are you saying cyclists are not entitled to enjoyments of life? Is erectile dysfunction a form of contraception? Removing this hazard means cyclists would enjoy better erection because of stronger hearts and optimum blood flow


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

This is a great thread. It has some of the characteristics of an angry Press Release by Cornish Separatists:

One or two take it terribly, terribly seriously and everyone else s doing their best to keep a straight face.

I and my cycling pals have far, far too many children and far, far too much romantic affection in our lives.

I agree with the poster above who said anything that might reduce the population would be a good thing.

What no-one seems to have pointed out yet is that the saddle apparently designed to prevent ED looks not entirely unlike the penis of someone who might have just that.... :troll:


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## Nigel-YZ1 (12 Dec 2011)

Bicycle said:


> This is a great thread. It has some of the characteristics of an angry Press Release by Cornish Separatists:
> 
> One or two take it terribly, terribly seriously and everyone else s doing their best to keep a straight face.


 
+1

If the bike's a rocking, the rider's still knocking...


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## numbnuts (12 Dec 2011)

well I've just ordered the Selle SMP TRK and with my name <<<<< I need all the help I can get


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## Dan_h (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Are you saying cyclists are not entitled to enjoyments of life? Is erectile dysfunction a form of contraception? Removing this hazard means cyclists would enjoy better erection because of stronger hearts and optimum blood flow


 
Are you, perhaps, one of the people with a few thousand of these saddles to try and shift?

_"Will biking cause impotence for the average cyclist? Does that risk outweigh the sport's cardiovascular benefits?" questions Harin Padma-Nathan, MD, a clinical professor of urology at the University of California School of Medicine. "The answer is no, on both counts." _

From this article...

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/431285/sex-and-cycling-cyclists-do-it-better.html


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Reducing potential perineal pressure by whatever means possible would improve overall sexual performance of the cyclists. Why should cyclists carry the burden of controlling world population? You don't only have sex to reproduce? Do you? And what about your partner? A good cyclist with a powerful heart without good erection would be of such low self esteem that it might in turn reduce his cycling.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Dan_h said:


> Are you, perhaps, one of the people with a few thousand of these saddles to try and shift?
> 
> _"Will biking cause impotence for the average cyclist? Does that risk outweigh the sport's cardiovascular benefits?" questions Harin Padma-Nathan, MD, a clinical professor of urology at the University of California School of Medicine. "The answer is no, on both counts." _
> 
> ...


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

numbnuts said:


> well I've just ordered the Selle SMP TRK and with my name <<<<< I need all the help I can get
> View attachment 5504



Would you please tell us how you find it after you have started using it.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

As medicine advances and eventually diseases in Third World gets dealt with but people in the Third World continue to shell out dozens of kids then the already and increasingly overpopulated world will continue to grow and this obviously can't be sustained. I think you're there before me - cyclists can combat the overpopulation of the world with their Brooks saddles buggering up their erections. We need a Bob Geldof kind of appeal to get bikes and Brooks saddles over to the Third World. I hope they have the strength and energy to cycle sufficiently to cause erectile problems. I may not have thought this through properly.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> As medicine advances and eventually diseases in Third World gets dealt with but people in the Third World continue to shell out dozens of kids then the already and increasingly overpopulated world will continue to grow and this obviously can't be sustained. I think you're there before me - cyclists can combat the overpopulation of the world with their Brooks saddles buggering up their erections. We need a Bob Geldof kind of appeal to get bikes and Brooks saddles over to the Third World. I hope they have the strength and energy to cycle sufficiently to cause erectile problems. I may not have thought this through properly.


 
Erection represent a distinct symbol of masculinity. A very important symbol for young men. Erectile dysfunction leads to marriage break up, infidelity which can lead to murder, depression and suicide. It is ethically and morally wrong to prescribe erection as a form of contraception. These 'people in the third world' have sex as the only form of enjoyment they can afford (they don't have to buy it). Do you want to deprive them of that as well? Have you looked at the articles on internet pornographic hits. None of the top countries is from your typical ''third world''.


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

This thread is starting to exceed my wildest hopes.

I think everyone who has posted to date is completely right and I want to read more of what they have to say.

For what it's worth, I use cheapish _Selle Italia_ saddles dropped slightly at the nose.

Now that divorce, murder and suicide are added to the plot, I might have to consult my surgeon, GP or LBS. This might get scary!


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Erectile dysfunction should not be taken lightly, only people that suffer from it can attest to its demoralising effects on their lives. Unfortunately they are the ones that are unlikely to speak out in a forum like this.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Bicycle said:


> This thread is starting to exceed my wildest hopes.
> 
> I think everyone who has posted to date is completely right and I want to read more of what they have to say.
> 
> ...


 
In what ways has the Selle Italia help with perineal pressure. Just wondering


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

I did mention that I may not have thought it through properly. I don't know if this is relevant but since I started cycling 4 months ago I have gone from masturbating about 12 times a week to just 3 times a week. Since I got my Brooks saddle 10 days ago I've not masturbated once.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I did mention that I may not have thought it through properly. I don't know if this is relevant but since I started cycling 4 months ago I have gone from masturbating about 12 times a week to just 3 times a week. Since I got my Brooks saddle 10 days ago I've not masturbated once.


I don't know whether there is any connection, because masturbation can precede erection and vice versa. Nevertheless, it is still relatively a short period of time. It must be there for at least 3 months before a reasonable conclusion. More so there are so many other possible contributory factors. Your GP is always there


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

I'd imagine access to computers and broadband wouldn't come from your typical Third World countries.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Divorce, murder and suicide! Where did that come from? I thought we were talking about saddles and numbness.
I often wondered why the stage winners et al in the TDF etc looked so disintersted in the young ladies handing out the pressies, now I know why!
Gbola, I'll understand if you didn't answer this, but may I ask if you're talking with specific experience of this problem relating to saddles?


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

I've already been to my GP who has referred me to my LBS. I've got an appointment on 18 December.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Divorce, murder and suicide! Where did that come from? I thought we were talking about saddles and numbness.
> I often wondered why the stage winners et al in the TDF etc looked so disintersted in the young ladies handing out the pressies, now I know why!
> Gbola, I'll understand if you didn't answer this, but may I ask if you're talking with specific experience of this problem relating to saddles?


I don't have erection problems but long before I started cycling, I have known from my training that any form of injury to the perineum has deleterious effects on erection.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

A


brokenflipflop said:


> I've already been to my GP who has referred me to my LBS. I've got an appointment on 18 December.


Are you joking or serious?


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I'd imagine access to computers and broadband wouldn't come from your typical Third World countries.


The high rate of population growth in ''the third world'' has to do with poverty, poor education, culture and lack of widespread availability of contraception not the frequency of sex.


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## Milo (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Erection represent a distinct symbol of masculinity. A very important symbol for young men. Erectile dysfunction leads to marriage break up, infidelity which can lead to murder, depression and suicide. It is ethically and morally wrong to prescribe erection as a form of contraception. These 'people in the third world' have sex as the only form of enjoyment they can afford (they don't have to buy it). Do you want to deprive them of that as well? Have you looked at the articles on internet pornographic hits. None of the top countries is from your typical ''third world''.


Spilled my tea.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> I don't have erection problems but long before I started cycling, I have known from my training that any form of injury to the perineum has deleterious effects on erection.


Medical training?


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Medical training?


Yes


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> The high rate of population growth in ''the third world'' has to do with poverty, poor education, culture and lack of widespread availability of contraception not the frequency of sex.


I'd imagine if you have fifteen kids then I reckon you've had sex at least 14 times (one set of twins). So I reckon frequency of pun tang pie may have at least some bearing. If I was poor I'd argue having more mouths to feed wouldn't necessarily help my poverty situation. I actually thought that they have dozens of kids because half of them die of disease which leaves a few left. As more are treated now with modern medicine then more kids survive causing overpopulation.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Yes


Go on.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

It has been shown clearly that even in the ''third world countries'', the educated tend to have small number of children (2 or 3) while the uneducated still have large number of children; just as it is in Britain where the professionals and the middle class families tend to have no or few children but those of lower socioeconomic class (those on benefit etc) tend to have higher numbers of children. The main determining factor seems to be maintaining your standard of living and trying to make sure that your children have at least the same or higher levels of standard living. Less children less to cater for and more funds to spend on each child.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Go on.


The main reason why prostate surgery could not be as radical as possible is because of the potential damage to these nerves controlling erection and incontinence.

Anything that would reduce perineal injury should be welcome. It should be tested and be proven to be useless before being discarded with the wave of a hand as some posters here would like.
In modern medicine, 'expert opinion' is at the lowest hierarchy of evidence based practice. No matter the experience and skills of a single surgeon, his opinion is his personal experience and for it to be accepted worldwide, studies have to be carried out. No matter your expertise in cycling it is still your personal experience. It is not a piece of research.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> It has been shown clearly that even in the ''third world countries'', the educated tend to have small number of children (2 or 3) while the uneducated still have large number of children; just as it is in Britain where the professionals and the middle class families tend to have no or few children but those of lower socioeconomic class (those on benefit etc) tend to have higher numbers of children. The main determining factor seems to be maintaining your standard of living and trying to make sure that your children have at least the same or higher levels of standard living. Less children less to cater for and more funds to spend on each child.


MMMM. I bow to your knowledge of Third World social issues. However, you've inadvertently stepped into my sphere of expertise. Namely the benefit cheating council estate Jeremy Kyle watching scroat. They have dozens of kids and have a Range Rover parked outside their council house because they get a fortune for their kids and get free everything. Their white van man boyfriend lives with them unbeknown to the authorities and pays for their lavish lifestyle. Their laminate flooring may be 3 inches shy of the skirting board and is full of hair but the important matters being the widescreen T.V., broadband, cream coloured leather settee, X-Box live, parrot, dog, cat, reptiles, tatoos, McDonalds every night, cars (Range Rover/Subaru/Merc or BMW) are all the trappings of "success" they care about. Believe me, dozens of kids here is a career choice and they have plenty of cash to spend on their kids.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> The main reason why prostate surgery could not be as radical as possible is because of the potential damage to these nerves controlling erection and incontinence.
> 
> Anything that would reduce perineal injury should be welcome. It should be tested and be proven to be useless before being discarded with the wave of a hand as some posters here would like.
> In modern medicine, 'expert opinion' is at the lowest hierarchy of evidence based practice. No matter the experience and skills of a single surgeon, his opinion is his personal experience and for it to be accepted worldwide, studies have to be carried out. No matter your expertise in cycling it is still your personal experience. It is not a piece of research.


I meant "Go on, what is your medical training relevant to the topic being discussed?"


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I've already been to my GP who has referred me to my LBS. I've got an appointment on 18 December.


 
Typical of the NHS!

A GP referral to your LBS takes that long! 

Don't take that sort of delay sitting down! 

(I made a funny)


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Namely the benefit cheating council estate Jeremy Kyle watching scroat. the widescreen T.V., broadband, cream coloured leather settee, X-Box live, BMW are all the trappings of "success" they care about.


HEY!!!


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> In what ways has the Selle Italia help with perineal pressure. Just wondering


 
I have no idea. I confess I wasn't being entirely serious.

I suffer no discomfort on the saddle (well, not until 70+ miles).

I'm afraid I'm not taking this part of this thread as seriously as I might.

Sorry...:troll:


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

I


Bicycle said:


> Typical of the NHS!
> 
> A GP referral to your LBS takes that long!
> 
> ...


I thought so as well


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I have no idea. I confess I wasn't being entirely serious.
> 
> I suffer no discomfort on the saddle (well, not until 70+ miles).
> 
> ...


I was not so serious about it before. However, we do not know the full reason why the person that started the thread asked his question. An open answer should be given, detailing the pros and cons of each option


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> I meant "Go on, what is your medical training relevant to the topic being discussed?"


I don't want to divulge too much about myself. Nevertheless, I am a trained urologist and a psychiatrist combined.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Same here, things have happened in the past and most of it's on the QT but I can only say that I'm half mod half rocker but I'll just have to leave it at that for now.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> MMMM. I bow to your knowledge of Third World social issues. However, you've inadvertently stepped into my sphere of expertise. Namely the benefit cheating council estate Jeremy Kyle watching scroat. They have dozens of kids and have a Range Rover parked outside their council house because they get a fortune for their kids and get free everything. Their white van man boyfriend lives with them unbeknown to the authorities and pays for their lavish lifestyle. Their laminate flooring may be 3 inches shy of the skirting board and is full of hair but the important matters being the widescreen T.V., broadband, cream coloured leather settee, X-Box live, parrot, dog, cat, reptiles, tatoos, McDonalds every night, cars (Range Rover/Subaru/Merc or BMW) are all the trappings of "success" they care about. Believe me, dozens of kids here is a career choice and they have plenty of cash to spend on their kids.


 
The main point is that the people you refer to as ''benefit cheating council estate Jeremy Kyle watching scroat'' have many children to maintain their standard of living while the middle class also have few number of children to maintain their standard living. The aim is the same but the means are different. Note that I have not taken any moral position. Each socioeconomic class has its contribution to the society if you look at it longterm.

The poor in the third world continues to have children because there is no free hospital treatment in many of these countries, thus they have many children with the hope that some of them would survive to adulthood and the more they have the higher the probability that one of the children would escape the poverty trap and become rich, thus raising the standard of living of the entire compound family.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> The poor in the third world continues to have children because there is no free hospital treatment in many of these countries, thus they have many children with the hope that some of them would survive to adulthood and the more they have the higher the probability that one of the children would escape the poverty trap and become rich, thus raising the standard of living of the entire compound family.


Personally I blame Mother Teresa.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

All of us are accidents of birth. We never chose our parents.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> All of us are accidents of birth. We never chose our parents.


Well, no, but.....what?


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

I think I said myself they have loads of kids due to the high mortality rate. I believe they hope they have enough kids survive to work the land and generally look after their parents. I don't think they expect one child to suddenly become rich particularly although I've seen a few programmes where people have tried various underhand and dishonest ways to gain work in the developed world to "become rich". I'm quite sure the majority of the African/Asian world that have loads of kids don't expect one particular child to get rich to support the whole family.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

There a lot of


brokenflipflop said:


> I think I said myself they have loads of kids due to the high mortality rate. I believe they hope they have enough kids survive to work the land and generally look after their parents. I don't think they expect one child to suddenly become rich particularly although I've seen a few programmes where people have tried various underhand and dishonest ways to gain work in the developed world to "become rich". I'm quite sure the majority of the African/Asian world that have loads of kids don't expect one particular child to get rich to support the whole family.


There are a lot of middle class individuals in the third world that are from very humble family. More so majority of rich people in the third world did not travel to the developed world before they became rich. Education, talents and luck are still the elements of become a middle class individual.


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## Gbola (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Well, no, but.....what?


The socioeconomic class of your parents contributes significantly to your eventual socioeconomic class. The same anywhere in the world


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> There a lot of
> There are a lot of middle class individuals in the third world that are from very humble family. More so majority of rich people in the third world did not travel to the developed world before they became rich. Education, talents and luck are still the elements of become a middle class individual.


It would be very interesting yet impossible to find out exactly how many people from the Third World a:become wealthy through honest hard work in the Third World, b:become wealthy through dishonesty/violence/illegal activity in the Third World, c:Honest work/dishonest work as an illegal immigrant in the Western World, d:Honest work/dishonest work as a legal immigrant in the Western World.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> The socioeconomic class of your parents contributes significantly to your eventual socioeconomic class. The same anywhere in the world


Agreed, not sure what it had to do with Mother Teresa though.


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## Dan_h (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> _I am not into business of any kind. Is that satisfactory? However, I know about erectile dysfunction more than you by training_


 
I know nothing about erectile dysfunction... honest... no really I don't!!! 

I know a bit about bikes though, and can see the obvious, millions of people ride millions of miles on ordinary saddles, no problem. A few may suffer some form of erectile problem from it but it is unlikely. I don't personally care what saddles people use, whatever is comfy is the right one. I have ridden thousands of kilometers on my San Marco Ponza and have no problems. Well, I don't think I do, perhaps I had best go and check out some pictures of expensive carbon bikes to make sure...


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

It doesn't matter how much Frankie Vaughan I watch, that Brooks saddle has ruined my sex drive. I never thought I'd have to stop cycling to crack one off but it's looking like I'm going to have to.


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## Mugshot (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> I never thought I'd have to stop cycling to crack one off but it's looking like I'm going to have to.


It really is much easier than trying to have a shuffle whilst pedaling.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)




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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

Mugshot said:


> Personally I blame Mother Teresa.


 
OT, so apologies in advance about that.

She was a very interesting woman, Mother T. Of Macedonian Albanian extraction and ended up in India. 

She died in the same week as the coy, weepy, self-publicising divorced lady. No-one even noticed she'd died. They were too busy leaving flowers for the aforementioned at Kensington Palace... Bless!

Sorry. Slightly world-weary attempt at a mild rant now over.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Jordan's not dead.


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Jordan's not dead.


 
No, but things are not looking good in the Middle East.

It may only be a matter of time.


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Too much sand turns the population into fanatics and mentalists.


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## Bicycle (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Too much sand turns the population into fanatics and mentalists.


 
That's very much the view at the FCO.

The situation in Syria is not helping, of course - and there is an extent to which the populace will start to question the legitimacy of the Hashemite monarchy.

But you're certainly right about the effect of sand. And Peter Andre? What was the poor girl thinking?


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## brokenflipflop (12 Dec 2011)

Just to complicate East/West relations I don't think my mate Dave helped when he trampled mud on an Iranian guy's Persian rug today and then proceeded to wipe it up with his boots still on his feet. We were there a very very long time !


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## Fnaar (12 Dec 2011)

brokenflipflop said:


> Since I got my Brooks saddle 10 days ago I've not masturbated once.


Though if you run out of Proofride...


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## dellzeqq (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> Erectile
> There is scientific evidence that cycling especially in an upright position rather than reclining position is associated with reduced oxygen flow to the tip of the penis and erectile dysfunction. Here are some links to the papers http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534705617065 ; http://content.karger.com/ProdukteD...oduktNr=224083&Ausgabe=226813&ArtikelNr=52533.
> You are an individual with unique characteristics and ways of cycling. The argument is about cyclists as a group compared to similar group of non cyclists. It is not about an individual.


ha! These people all ride steel frames! Those of us who are blessed by carbon know that the smoothness of the ride afforded by carbon, and the absence of resonance doesn't just negate impairment, it actually improves performance. If a fully functioning erection after 165 miles in a day doesn't convince you, my name's not Ernesto!


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## dellzeqq (12 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> Not this old chestnut.
> 
> You may as well post a poll asking who has a limp noodle.
> 
> Some bugger somewhere must have a shiping container full of those sodding saddles which they can't shift and has spent the last ten years trying to flog them all.


scarily I find myself agreeing with Zoiders for the second time in one day. Excuse me while I celebrate......


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## dellzeqq (12 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> I don't want to divulge too much about myself. Nevertheless, I am a trained urologist and a psychiatrist combined.


what! Or, more pertinently.......why???????


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## dellzeqq (12 Dec 2011)

I do accept one thing. If science can prove that Brooks saddles are a form of contraceptive, then there is a God.


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## dellzeqq (12 Dec 2011)

behave!!!!


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## Nigel-YZ1 (13 Dec 2011)

Oh I am so tempted to start putting silly posts here...


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## Zoiders (13 Dec 2011)

I am waiting for my share of the $1000000 USD waiting in a Nigerian bank account that Gbola promised to split with me once I forwaded him the processing fee of £3000 in Sterling or Euros.

I know it must be distressing not being able to access your fathers estate due to having to run a busy practice in Harley Street dealing with the sexual health of the rich and famous but 6 months to clear a cheque is taking the piss - I could really do with the cash sometime soon as someone else emptied my entire account not long after I gave Gbola all of my details.


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## Gbola (13 Dec 2011)

I


Zoiders said:


> I am waiting for my share of the $1000000 USD waiting in a Nigerian bank account that Gbola promised to split with me once I forwaded him the processing fee of £3000 in Sterling or Euros.
> 
> I know it must be distressing not being able to access your fathers estate due to having to run a busy practice in Harley Street dealing with the sexual health of the rich and famous but 6 months to clear a cheque is taking the piss - I could really do with the cash sometime soon as someone else emptied my entire account not long after I gave Gbola all of my details.


 I like your reply keep it coming


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## Gbola (13 Dec 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> what! Or, more pertinently.......why???????


To take care of people like you


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## Gbola (13 Dec 2011)

Zoiders said:


> I am waiting for my share of the $1000000 USD waiting in a Nigerian bank account that Gbola promised to split with me once I forwaded him the processing fee of £3000 in Sterling or Euros.
> 
> I know it must be distressing not being able to access your fathers estate due to having to run a busy practice in Harley Street dealing with the sexual health of the rich and famous but 6 months to clear a cheque is taking the piss - I could really do with the cash sometime soon as someone else emptied my entire account not long after I gave Gbola all of my details.


You must be shimano sora to fall for it or probably less


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## Gbola (13 Dec 2011)

1641920 said:


> [quote="dellzeqq, post: 1641890, member: 3567"If a fully functioning erection after 165 miles in a day doesn't convince you, my name's not Ernesto!


Even at a good lick, that sounds like priapism to me.[/quote]
Another side effect of cycling


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## snailracer (13 Dec 2011)

oldroadman said:


> ...Cut outs can help with perineal pressure, but the majority of pros don't use them, and their time in the saddle is generally longer than mere mortals...


Not a great example - pro cyclists aren't exactly renowned for looking after their long-term health, many seem prepared to poison themselves just to finish a few positions higher in their next race.


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## Gbola (13 Dec 2011)

snailracer said:


> Not a great example - pro cyclists aren't exactly renowned for looking after their long-term health, many seem prepared to poison themselves just to finish a few positions higher in their next race.


In your support, cycling competitions probably have the highest incidence of doping scandals.


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## dellzeqq (13 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> To take care of people like you


that's so not doing it for me.......


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## dellzeqq (13 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> In your support, cycling competitions probably have the highest incidence of doping scandals.


you astonish us with these revelations!


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## Dan B (14 Dec 2011)

Gbola said:


> More so there are so many other possible contributory factors. Your GP is always there


My sympathies to the OP then. I also would find it difficult to maintain an erection if my GP were always there


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## dellzeqq (14 Dec 2011)

if my GP were there I'd find it completely straightforward (tish-boom). I'd not ever consider asking her to diagnose something, though......


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## Gbola (14 Dec 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> if my GP were there I'd find it completely straightforward (tish-boom). I'd not ever consider asking her to diagnose something, though......


Obviously your problem is not caused by cycling


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## dellzeqq (14 Dec 2011)

...nor diagnosis by google searches


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## Gbola (14 Dec 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> ...nor diagnosis by google searches


Another common error of the novice


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## oldroadman (29 Dec 2011)

snailracer said:


> Not a great example - pro cyclists aren't exactly renowned for looking after their long-term health, many seem prepared to poison themselves just to finish a few positions higher in their next race.


That sort of comment is hardly worthy of a response. And helps no-one. "Many", how "many" is that, 10%, 5%, 50%? Do you know? Cycling is in general pretty clean, and compared to certain other sports is spotless.


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