# Planning for France into Spain and Portugal



## Milemuncher (10 Nov 2011)

My wife and I are planning a (slow) tour from St Malo down through France and Spain to Southern Portugal for this coming September/October. I have been looking at routes in the forums here and elsewhere and wonder if any of the cols over the Pyrenees is especially recommended? Ideally it would be flat




but failing that which is the 'easiest'? Norman


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## bikepacker (11 Nov 2011)

Done 2 tours in Spain, one down to Gibraltar and the other along the North Coast and I can assure you there is no flat route. Spain is regarded as the second most mountianous country in Europe.

Places worthwhile visiting.
Vitoria
Burgos 
Salamanca
Trujillo
Merida


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## Ajay (11 Nov 2011)

I cycled Roscoff - Faro many moons ago.
Its very easy to ride down through France without encountering too many hills. Brittany can be a bit lumpy, so plan that bit carefully.
Cross the Loire on the St Nazaire bridge it'll be the last "climb" you need to do before Spain!
You can cross the border at sea level at Hendaye, so there's no need to climb the Pyrenees, but as bikepacker says Spain is much harder work, whichever way you slice it!
If you've got 2 months to play with you'll have plenty of time to pick an interesting route with shortish daily mileages. Don't avoid the hills, that's where the best cycling is!


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## Dave Davenport (11 Nov 2011)

We did Bilbao - St. Malo last year and a big loop south east of Bilbao a few years ago. The French section is all easy terrain (unless you go out of your way to find hills/mountains). Spain is lumpy but the gradients aren't too steep and the roads are great.


We're planning on Cherbourg to Santander next year.


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## Milemuncher (11 Nov 2011)

Bikepacker, Ajay, Dave, thanks for responding. You have no idea how useful your comments are to a beginner tourer. You can spend hours (I do!) scouring maps, but is impossible to make sense of what your 'seeing' and what you might face on the ground. I'll get back into the maps now with these suggestions in mind and with renewed enthusiasm. Thank you. When we bought our Thorns we were steered by Andy Blance towards gearing that meant that we 'would never have to climb off the bikes and push' - so we will be pleased to put this to the test in Spain. We are currently good for 50-60 mile days in lumpy terrain, so the hope is that a month or so wending down through France will get us ready for the challenges of Spain. As I say, its great to have found a space like Cycle Chat where experienced members are so willing to give their best advice to novices like myself. Norman



Further comments will be very well received.


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## doog (11 Nov 2011)

I did Girona, Spain straight up to St Malo in June 

That was lumpy, nearly 30,000 feet of ascent, stick rigidly to the west coast I think is your best bet. Even slightly inland in the Vendee was hilly.

(edit ...probably not much use at all to you as you are heading towards the other end of the pyrenees



)


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## johnny mcgurk (13 Nov 2011)

I've done a bit of riding in the western Pyrenees but not a full on tour. Have used these cycle tourist maps as guides. They may be of interest. Guide velo from www.tourisme64.com is a bit simplistic but wil give you a good idea of popular routes with cyclists and Navarra en bicicleta from www.turismo.navarra.es shows some popular routes on the Spanish side of the border. Col profiles are available in lots places, the one I use most is climbbybike.com. My favourite way to cross the border is to follow the river nive from Bayonne, gentle climbs up to Cambo-les-bains then tips up a bit but never seriously pointy to st jean pied de port. You then have a choice of crossing ponts, col d'ispeguy, col d'urquiga or puerto d'ibaneta. The descent from roncesvalles into navarra and Pamplona is spectacular. Only problem with this route is its popularity, depending on the time of year it can be swamped with pilgrims walking/cycling/crawling the casino Frances and the the route to Santiago. I stress I have not cycled these route fully laden. If you do decide to cross further west, I would recommend the old smugglers route, la route des contrabandiers around esplette and ainhoa. Beautiful basque villages and the most breathtaking scenery. Only problem is it doesn't really get you across the Pyrenees and as others have pointed out, the fun really starts when you get to Spain. Hope this helps and good luck.


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## Milemuncher (14 Nov 2011)

johnny mcgurk said:


> I've done a bit of riding in the western Pyrenees but not a full on tour. Have used these cycle tourist maps as guides. They may be of interest. Guide velo from www.tourisme64.com is a bit simplistic but wil give you a good idea of popular routes with cyclists and Navarra en bicicleta from www.turismo.navarra.es shows some popular routes on the Spanish side of the border. Col profiles are available in lots places, the one I use most is climbbybike.com. My favourite way to cross the border is to follow the river nive from Bayonne, gentle climbs up to Cambo-les-bains then tips up a bit but never seriously pointy to st jean pied de port. You then have a choice of crossing ponts, col d'ispeguy, col d'urquiga or puerto d'ibaneta. The descent from roncesvalles into navarra and Pamplona is spectacular. Only problem with this route is its popularity, depending on the time of year it can be swamped with pilgrims walking/cycling/crawling the casino Frances and the the route to Santiago. I stress I have not cycled these route fully laden. If you do decide to cross further west, I would recommend the old smugglers route, la route des contrabandiers around esplette and ainhoa. Beautiful basque villages and the most breathtaking scenery. Only problem is it doesn't really get you across the Pyrenees and as others have pointed out, the fun really starts when you get to Spain. Hope this helps and good luck.



Johnny, this is just great, thanks. Lot's of super pointers. I'll have all sort of fun tracking these routes on the maps. I am beginning to think I am getting somewhere! Norman


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## Milemuncher (14 Nov 2011)

I asked Google maps for a 'no highways' 'no tolls' route from St Malo to Loule in Portugal tonight and it came up with the attached. Any thoughts? Would it be too 'rural' and miss places we ought to be going to? What do you think? Any advice will be very welcome.


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## doog (14 Nov 2011)

This was my recent route

http://www.crazyguyo..._id=198301&v=1i

Looks almost identical from St Malo to just north of Bordeaux leg on yours. All I can say is that it wasnt flat, was very rural and surprisingly quite busy. 

The section between Vitre (East of Rennes) and Coulonges (Just north of Niort) had 4500 feet of ascent in 140 miles. May be easier riding to go west of this further towards the coast.


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## Milemuncher (14 Nov 2011)

doog said:


> This was my recent route
> 
> http://www.crazyguyo..._id=198301&v=1i
> 
> ...



Thanks again, Doog. Link to your blog safely bookmarked. I'll give it full justice tomorrow. Just about cross-eyed tonight!


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## Dave Davenport (15 Nov 2011)

We used the ferry between Le Verdon-su-Mer & Royan whch avoids Bordeaux. They go every half hour for about 6 euro.


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## bikepacker (15 Nov 2011)

Don't you mean Soulac sur Mer? As DD says it is a good way to avoid Bordeaux and they serve great coffee in the bar.


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## Dave Davenport (15 Nov 2011)

If your're planning on 50 to 60 miles a day (which is about the same as we usually do, Bilbao - St. Malo took 13 days) and you've got a couple of months you'll have time to do a less direct route than that google map one. Allowing for rest days and a bit of sight seeing I'd base a route on about 300 miles a week if it was me & mrs d. Maybe do some of the Loire valley and green Spain.

You don't say which Thorns you've got, we've got a pair of Sherpas and they've been great. We run a 26x27 lowest gear and haven't had to get off and push yet, even in the alps.


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## Dave Davenport (15 Nov 2011)

Oh, and just remembered; The canal cycle route between St.Malo and Rennes is very nice.


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## johnny mcgurk (15 Nov 2011)

Sorry malfunction.I know I'm biased but I would urge you not to avoid Bordeaux. Take the ferry as suggested across the Gironde estuary and drop down to Lacanau or Arcachon. Then take the cycle path into central Bordeaux. Not, cycle lanes but dedicated cycle paths, converted from disused railway lines. About 150km of dedicated cycle paths and pan flat. Bizarrely they give them road numbering, the one in from the coast is the D803 and the one out to Sauveterre is the D801. If you google pistes cyclables Gironde you will findd all you need.


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## Milemuncher (15 Nov 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> You don't say which Thorns you've got, we've got a pair of Sherpas and they've been great. We run a 26x27 lowest gear and haven't had to get off and push yet, even in the alps.




Hello Dave,

We have Raven Sport Tours with (as far as I understand it) very low gears. Rohloff hubs with 38T chainrings. Flat, narrow bars. They pedal up hills very easily, although the steering is very skittish going up - fine coming down, so not a problem. Now that we have gotten over the shock of what they cost we love them. They were a treat to ourselves when we retired last summer. The story of their purchase and a piccie is here is you are interested. We are sure we want to travel light so the weight carrying limitations are not a problem.

Thanks for all the advice, Dave. Much appreciated.


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## Milemuncher (15 Nov 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> We used the ferry between Le Verdon-su-Mer & Royan whch avoids Bordeaux. They go every half hour for about 6 euro.



Thanks Dave and Bikepacker. Missing Bordeaux would be good. A few years ago we flew into Bordeaux with our bikes and took the train to Bergerac before starting a tour. We didn't take to Bordeaux and would not rush back. I'll check out the ferry. Thanks both.


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## Milemuncher (15 Nov 2011)

doog said:


> This was my recent route
> 
> http://www.crazyguyo..._id=198301&v=1i
> 
> ...



Gosh, Doog, just checked out your trip on your site and that was hard! Hats off for the distances and the climbing. And calm facing mishaps. Are you sure you don't have an engine fitted?


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## doog (15 Nov 2011)

Milemuncher said:


> Gosh, Doog, just checked out your trip on your site and that was hard! Hats off for the distances and the climbing. And calm facing mishaps. Are you sure you don't have an engine fitted?



It was my first oversees tour however I think I must have stumbled on the canal that dave Davenport mentions earlier between St Malo and Rennes. That route would be a great start for your tour..



.

I had a bit of a time limit so having suffered in the Pyrenees I needed to make up time, hence the few nutty days... I Intend to go back and do it slow(er) time ..although I was surprised at the amount of excess mileage I did simply 'aiming' for a camp site and a hot shower.....


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## Milemuncher (16 Nov 2011)

doog said:


> It was my first oversees tour however I think I must have stumbled on the canal that dave Davenport mentions earlier between St Malo and Rennes. That route would be a great start for your tour..
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yes, I think this is right, doug. Checked it out on the via Michelin site and it shows up clearly as a great way to get into the very centre of Rennes. So, that's leg one sorted!


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## onlineamiga (16 Nov 2011)

Dave Davenport said:


> We used the ferry between Le Verdon-su-Mer & Royan whch avoids Bordeaux. They go every half hour for about 6 euro.




I did the same thing when cycling up last year. It cuts off some mileage too. Its a nice change to be on a boat travelling on the water after endless forests through the south of France. 
Had no problem with the bicycle on this ferry. They were very accomodating. You dont have to prebook either. Just roll up


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## Milemuncher (16 Nov 2011)

onlineamiga said:


> I did the same thing when cycling up last year. It cuts off some mileage too. Its a nice change to be on a boat travelling on the water after endless forests through the south of France.
> Had no problem with the bicycle on this ferry. They were very accomodating. You dont have to prebook either. Just roll up



Thanks, I'm totally sold on this idea.


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## jay clock (16 Nov 2011)

First of all have a good look through the superb rseource that is crazyguyonabike.com - my offerings are here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/julian

I would say absolutely avoid the coastal route into Spain. Busy, built up and hilly. By the time you get to the Pyrenees you will be fit enough for the inevitable hills so head inland a bit.

If you cross the Gironde at Soulac you then have 200k down to Spain. A little dull, but as stated above, lots of cycle tracks and quiet and flat. Another boat option is the one from Cap Ferret to Arcachon see here http://www.bateliers-arcachon.com/pdf/17.pdf 

Campsites in rural Spain may be closed or not exist in October, but hotels are cheap. Ask for a "hostal" - this a cheap pension type hotel NOT a hostel.

If you can face it plan for a bit of rough camping - did it here in Spain and loved it http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1r4vFZo&doc_id=6005&v=B4

Have a great time


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## andrew_s (16 Nov 2011)

Ajay said:


> You can cross the border at sea level at Hendaye, so there's no need to climb the Pyrenees, but as bikepacker says Spain is much harder work, whichever way you slice it!


The Pyrenees don't really stop at Hendaye - they turn into the Cantabrians and swing west along the the Spanish coast. You've still got to climb somewhere. 
The Ibaneta (via the Embalse de Itaiz) is probably the easiest route, being just one climb rather than several. It's a main road until just after Roncesvalles though, and may be busier than you'd like.

I reckon the least hilly route through Spain is to aim for Pamplona, then Logrono, Burgos, Palencia, Zamora, Ciudad Rodrigo, Caceres, Merida or Badajoz, then into Portugal. I can't say it would be a scenic route.


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## Milemuncher (16 Nov 2011)

andrew_s said:


> The Pyrenees don't really stop at Hendaye - they turn into the Cantabrians and swing west along the the Spanish coast. You've still got to climb somewhere.
> The Ibaneta (via the Embalse de Itaiz) is probably the easiest route, being just one climb rather than several. It's a main road until just after Roncesvalles though, and may be busier than you'd like.
> 
> I reckon the least hilly route through Spain is to aim for Pamplona, then Logrono, Burgos, Palencia, Zamora, Ciudad Rodrigo, Caceres, Merida or Badajoz, then into Portugal. I can't say it would be a scenic route.



Thanks Andrew, this is very helpful. If you were adding some scenic alternatives what would you suggest (remembering that I want to end up on the Algarve)? I appreciate that this is the opposite to my original query, so thanks for your patience!



Norman


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