# Feet touching front wheel



## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

Its happened a few times on my road bike when coming up to a junction and starting to track stand. Nearly caught me out as I'm clipped in. Nothing I can do about it but does anyone elses feet touch their front wheel when turning. Also is their any chance of this happening when riding at speed.


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## Salty seadog (26 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> Its happened a few times on my road bike when coming up to a junction and starting to track stand. Nearly caught me out as I'm clipped in. Nothing I can do about it but does anyone elses feet touch their front wheel when turning. Also is their any chance of this happening when riding at speed.



Very unlikely at speed. Most steering is done by leaning and only turning the bars slightly
..


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## Globalti (26 Oct 2017)

It happens on some bikes. Just ride faster and stop in a straight line and it won't bother you.


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## Oldfentiger (26 Oct 2017)

I have this on my Raleigh RX Comp, which has CX type geometry. There's about 1" of toe interference, and even more with mudguards fitted.
Just need to be mindful of this at low speeds and when doing stuff like U turns. Never a problem over 7mph or so.


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## bpsmith (26 Oct 2017)

Happens a bit on one of my bikes when stopped and talking/not concentrating.

Never considered it when riding though, so definitely doesn't affect me at all.


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## Smokin Joe (26 Oct 2017)

You'd have the go back to the sixties when I last had a bike without toe overlap.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

Oldfentiger said:


> I have this on my Raleigh RX Comp, which has CX type geometry. There's about 1" of toe interference, and even more with mudguards fitted.
> Just need to be mindful of this at low speeds and when doing stuff like U turns. Never a problem over 7mph or so.



Yes I've had it happen on sharp turns at sub 10mph and will be putting mud guards on it shortly. It's probably worse because the bike is a small frame but its just wierd as I have had any bike where this happens.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 5014775, member: 9609"]have you rear ended anything recently ?[/QUOTE]

No. Headset is straight and the forks are carbon so shouldnt be bent.


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## RoubaixCube (26 Oct 2017)

It happens to me on my triban as the frame is just a tad bit small for me. Still rides perfectly fine though. I just dont have the same range when it comes to steering but ive never had to completely turn the the bars completely 45 degrees to take a turn while ive been on it (I also dont trackstand)


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## fatjel (26 Oct 2017)

I had it on my Bacchetta when I put a 700 front wheel in place of the usual 26"


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## vickster (26 Oct 2017)

Toe overlap. Quite common. I have big feet, ride a fairly small frame for my height (long legs, short torso). Avoid turning at slow speeds and put your foot down at junctions. Or get a new bike


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## palinurus (26 Oct 2017)

Happens on two of my bikes, only notice it on the fixed gear one because it's a bit harder to avoid it when making a tight turn (although I've started to learn, without really trying, to turn the wheel briefly out of the way just after my foot comes over the top of the pedal stroke)

As other posters have stated, never a problem at speed, only when making tight turns when pedalling.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Toe overlap. Quite common. I have big feet, ride a fairly small frame for my height (long legs, short torso). Avoid turning at slow speeds and put your foot down at junctions. Or get a new bike



I have a similar problem but small legs and small torso  No way is her indoors going to let me buy another bike yet.


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## vickster (26 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> I have a similar problem but small legs and small torso  No way is her indoors going to let me buy another bike yet.


Do you have mudguards? I found getting mine cut down helped a bit


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

Toe overlap, I'm a short arse I have it on all my bikes and always have had. Its a minor nuisance on the fixed when maneuvering at low speed, and its had me on the floor once when maneuvering the geared bike at low speed, touched the mudguard with my foot and it rolled up under the fork crown.


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## Lonestar (26 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 5014775, member: 9609"]have you rear ended anything recently ?[/QUOTE]

@Fnaar


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## Fnaar (26 Oct 2017)

Lonestar said:


> @Fnaar


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## Lonestar (26 Oct 2017)

dave r said:


> Toe overlap, I'm a short arse I have it on all my bikes and always have had. Its a minor nuisance on the fixed when maneuvering at low speed, and its had me on the floor once when maneuvering the geared bike at low speed, touched the mudguard with my foot and it rolled up under the fork crown.



Except the Brompton none of my bikes have a front mudguard.


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## dave r (26 Oct 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Except the Brompton none of my bikes have a front mudguard.



I run guards on all my bikes.


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## Slick (26 Oct 2017)

It does on one of my bikes and it did kinda catch me by surprise at first, but now I just ignore it. I think the bike is a bit small for me but I find it's very comfortable on the drops where my bigger bike has no toe overlap but feels just a bit stretched on the drops. I'm sure I could fix it with a shorter stem but we'll probably need to live with the wheel catching the toe every now and again.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Do you have mudguards? I found getting mine cut down helped a bit




Not yet. They are on the shopping list though with winter approaching.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

It looks like its more common than I thought and not just a geometry flaw of a small Defy. Will just have to be more mindful of it at junctions so I don't end up on my arse.


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## mustang1 (26 Oct 2017)

Happens on my road bike. Need to be very careful when using raceblades because the foot hits the raceblades which jams against the tyre. I've learned when this happens to just apply a bunch of power to allow the tyre to start spinng again, this avoiding a fall.


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## boydj (26 Oct 2017)

Common problem on small frames. Easy to manage on a bike with a freewheel - just a bit of forward and back on the pedals to keep the offending foot out of the way when doing slow speed sharp turns. More of a problem on a fixie, though.


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## Levo-Lon (26 Oct 2017)

Are you using mtb shoes & cleats?
I get it with them on a road bike.
I use spd-sl cleats with a road shoe now which seems to solve it , mtb shoes seem to put you foot a bit nearer to the wheel.


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## Jody (26 Oct 2017)

meta lon said:


> Are you using mtb shoes & cleats?
> I get it with them on a road bike.
> I use spd-sl cleats with a road shoe now which seems to solve it , mtb shoes seem to put you foot a bit nearer to the wheel.



Not thought of that. Yes I'm using normal spds and mtb shoes.


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## raleighnut (26 Oct 2017)

I get it on this one but it's an extremely short wheelbase frame,


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## Ajax Bay (26 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> No[t] thought of that. Yes I'm using normal spds and mtb shoes.


If your shoes offer such adjustment, could you mitigate the risk of toe overlap by shifting your cleats forward as far as they will go?


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## alicat (26 Oct 2017)

Never happened to me yet, taps head.


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## velovoice (26 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Moving the cleat too far forward will potentially cause foot problems.


+1
Compromising your fit/position to align to an ill-fitting bike is never a good idea. Do what you can to make the bike fit you, not the other way round. If it can't be done within reason and safety, then change bikes.


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## Ajax Bay (26 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Moving the cleat too far forward will potentially cause foot problems.


Good point. I have my cleats as far back as they will go as, on balance, it is more efficient, and put up with toe overlap, and expect it in very low speed manoeuvres. See Steve Hogg's article.


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## Tenacious Sloth (27 Oct 2017)

vickster said:


> Toe overlap. Quite common. I have big feet, ride a fairly small frame for my height (long legs, short torso). *Avoid turning at slow speeds* and put your foot down at junctions. Or get a new bike



How do you do that then? 

I have this problem with my CAADX (seems more common with CX geometry?), particularly with a slow RH turn onto a cycle path on my commute to work route. I’ve cured the problem by cutting the toes off my left foot and wearing a size 8 shoe on that side, as opposed my my normal size 10.

Graham


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## vickster (27 Oct 2017)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> How do you do that then?
> 
> I have this problem with my CAADX (seems more common with CX geometry?), particularly with a slow RH turn onto a cycle path on my commute to work route. I’ve cured the problem by cutting the toes off my left foot and wearing a size 8 shoe on that side, as opposed my my normal size 10.
> 
> Graham


Get off the bike and walk round, unclip feet and scoot round, or unclip and move feet back?


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## Oldfentiger (27 Oct 2017)

The pedal on the outside of the turn, which is the one which will interfere on a tight turn, needs to be kept in the rearward arc.
If some pedal input is required in order to maintain control then the pedal on the inside of the turn can be "pumped", if that makes sense.


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## dave r (27 Oct 2017)

Oldfentiger said:


> The pedal on the outside of the turn, which is the one which will interfere on a tight turn, needs to be kept in the rearward arc.
> If some pedal input is required in order to maintain control then the pedal on the inside of the turn can be "pumped", if that makes sense.



Except on a fixed.


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## jay clock (27 Oct 2017)

bit worse on bikes with mudguards and also toeclips. Not an issue unless turning in the road at slow speed.

And stop the track stand bollox!


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## Oldfentiger (27 Oct 2017)

dave r said:


> Except on a fixed.



Bunny hop the back wheel round then


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## mikeymustard (27 Oct 2017)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> How do you do that then?
> 
> I have this problem with my CAADX (seems more common with CX geometry?), particularly with a slow RH turn onto a cycle path on my commute to work route. I’ve cured the problem by cutting the toes off my left foot and wearing a size 8 shoe on that side, as opposed my my normal size 10.
> 
> Graham


that's all very well and good, but what do you do when you come home the same way?


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## Tenacious Sloth (27 Oct 2017)

mikeymustard said:


> that's all very well and good, but what do you do when you come home the same way?



Sit facing backwards. Obviously. 

Graham


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## ManiaMuse (27 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> It looks like its more common than I thought and not just a geometry flaw of a small Defy. Will just have to be more mindful of it at junctions so I don't end up on my arse.


It's a trend in bike design really, more compact frames with a shorter wheelbase, especially on racier bikes. It'll be worse obviously if you have mudguards fitted, have big feet/shoes or have replaced your original cranks with longer ones.

Also bear in mind that while the Giant Defy is available in 5 different frame sizes, there are only 3 different crank lengths fitted to those frames so there is a bit of a compromise/crossover in sizing there.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, it's only a problem at very low speeds when you forget about it. When you are riding at any speed above a few mph you don't actually turn the wheel very much at all. If you turn the wheel that much at higher speeds you will be having a crash anyway regardless of whether your toes touch the wheel.

Much more important to get your cleats in the correct position otherwise you can injure yourself through improper riding position. When you are riding you should feel like the power is going through the ball of your foot, not your toes or heel.

I have a bit of mudguard/toe overlap on one of my bikes and I can still trackstand on it if I am careful.


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## Jody (27 Oct 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> If your shoes offer such adjustment, could you mitigate the risk of toe overlap by shifting your cleats forward as far as they will go?



I could but that would mess my position up for when on the MTB.




jay clock said:


> And stop the track stand bollox!





User said:


>



Its a useful skill for the odd occasion its needed


[QUOTE 5015569, member: 9609"]out of curiosity what is the closest your pedal gets to the front wheel ?

From the centre line of the pedal bearing to the tyre is 98mm on mine.[/QUOTE]

Not sure. Will have a look tonight.





ManiaMuse said:


> Also bear in mind that while the Giant Defy is available in 5 different frame sizes, there are only 3 different crank lengths fitted to those frames so there is a bit of a compromise/crossover in sizing there.
> 
> Much more important to get your cleats in the correct position otherwise you can injure yourself through improper riding position. When you are riding you should feel like the power is going through the ball of your foot, not your toes or heel.
> 
> I have a bit of mudguard/toe overlap on one of my bikes and I can still trackstand on it if I am careful.



The Defy feels odd as its got shorter cranks than my full suss which feels odd. Cleat position hasn't changed in the last 20+ years and is pretty much on the ball of my foot towards the rear of its adjustment. 



@velovoice Had a quick glance at your blog. Nice collection of bikes you have there past and present


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## Salty seadog (27 Oct 2017)

raleighnut said:


> I get it on this one but it's an extremely short wheelbase frame,
> 
> View attachment 380406



I've never seen a bike with more than one set of handlebars before....


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## velovoice (27 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> @velovoice Had a quick glance at your blog. Nice collection of bikes you have there past and present


Thanks! As you can see, I also have a somewhat obsessive interest in bicycle geometry and fit!


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## raleighnut (27 Oct 2017)

Salty seadog said:


> I've never seen a bike with more than one set of handlebars before....


Looked even stranger when it had the 'Aero' extensions on.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Oct 2017)

Can we just clear one thing up?

Toe overlap is nothing to do with the frame being a compact or a small size, nor is it a problem for most people. It is a feature of race geometry frames and has been for more decades than most of us have been alive. It is something that one very quickly learns to live with and only causes issues during walking pace tight turns. If you do find it a worry the only answer is to buy a frame which is geared more to touring and has more relaxed angles.


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## pjd57 (27 Oct 2017)

I noticed it happening once or twice when I got a CX . Never on my hybrid.
But now I'm aware it can happen , I seem to have made the necessary adjustments to my riding to avoid it.
No idea what I've done , but it's not happening any more.


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## tyred (28 Oct 2017)

Smokin Joe said:


> Can we just clear one thing up?
> 
> Toe overlap is nothing to do with the frame being a compact or a small size, nor is it a problem for most people. It is a feature of race geometry frames and has been for more decades than most of us have been alive. It is something that one very quickly learns to live with and only causes issues during walking pace tight turns. If you do find it a worry the only answer is to buy a frame which is geared more to touring and has more relaxed angles.



I agree, absolutely nothing to do with frame size. My Viscount is a massive 25" frame and still suffers slightly from toe overlap.


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## Ajax Bay (29 Oct 2017)

Jody said:


> does anyone elses feet touch their front wheel when turning


There are British Standards for bicycle safety and for the bike (as opposed to lighting) it was BS6102/1
Trouble is that these BS (and the standards / ENs that replaced them when original withdrawn) cannot be accessed without payment. However there is a useful info work-around.

*Cycling UK (was CTC) Standard for Hired & Used Cycles*
"Since BS6102/1 applies only to brand-new, unused bicycles, there has long been a desire for some yardstick against which to asses the safety and roadworthiness of a bicycle that's already seen a bit of wear and tear. This desire for a kind of cycling MOT became a necessity in conjunction with the CTC Cycle Hire Code, so CTC [Chris Juden was author)] answered it with *a specification*, broadly* based upon BS6102/1*."

"5 Steering
"5.1 Free movement
"The steering shall be free to turn through at least 60° either side of straight-ahead. Slight
stiffness shall be accepted, provided that the steering is free enough for the weight of the
front fork and wheel etc. to turn it when the cycle is leaned at up to 45° to one side or the
other (wheels not touching the ground).
*"As the steering is turned and as the cycle is pedalled it shall not be possible for the toe of a
rider’s shoe, when 110mm in front of the centre of either pedal, to touch the front wheel or
mudguard."*
My size 9½ shoes extend 108mm in front of the pedal spindle (NB I have the SPD-R cleats set back as far as they will go). My crank length is 170mm. My mudguards, over 28-622 tyres, extend 353mm from the front wheel axle and the clearance is dead on 108mm. My mudguard, when the wheel is turned, may brush the toe of my shoe (but I always assume it will). The bike frame(57/58) has a wheelbase of 1018mm and BB to front axle is 610mm.


tyred said:


> absolutely nothing to do with frame size. My Viscount is a massive 25" frame and still suffers slightly from toe overlap.


I must admit I'm surprised that that size frame hasn't got a longer wheelbase. Have you got 'massive' feet as well?


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## screenman (29 Oct 2017)

I think you would not want to turn your bars enough to catch your feet at any reasonable speed, you would likely be on the floor before your toes touched the tyre.


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## Ajax Bay (29 Oct 2017)

Salty seadog said:


> Very unlikely at speed. Most steering is done by leaning and only turning the bars slightly





ManiaMuse said:


> When you are riding at any speed above a few mph you don't actually turn the wheel very much at all. If you turn the wheel that much at higher speeds you will be having a crash anyway regardless of whether your toes touch the wheel.





screenman said:


> I think you would not want to turn your bars enough to catch your feet at any reasonable speed, you would likely be on the floor before your toes touched the tyre.


TMN Award to @Salty seadog and to @ManiaMuse


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## raleighnut (29 Oct 2017)

screenman said:


> I think you would not want to turn your bars enough to catch your feet at any reasonable speed, you would likely be on the floor before your toes touched the tyre.


It's the 'slo-mo' topple that's embarrassing though, not to mention the chance of snapping a collarbone as you land like a 'Sack of Spuds'


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## Salty seadog (29 Oct 2017)

Ajax Bay said:


> TMN Award to @Salty seadog and to @ManiaMuse



I don't think it's a TMN to me. I was the first reply. I want this acknowledged.....


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## pjd57 (3 Nov 2017)

Heels clipping the pannier bags can be a nuisance as well.


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## Dave7 (5 Nov 2017)

Happened to me in a serious way.....but I got away with it.
Turning onto my drive...right toeclip locked on tyre. Bike stopped dead but I carried on and on and on.....over the fence.
Ended up with me in the garden but my feet still in the clips and my bike on the other side.
Fortunately no one saw me


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## mikeymustard (5 Nov 2017)

Dave7 said:


> Happened to me in a serious way.....but I got away with it.
> Turning onto my drive...right toeclip locked on tyre. Bike stopped dead but I carried on and on and on.....over the fence.
> Ended up with me in the garden but my feet still in the clips and my bike on the other side.
> Fortunately no one saw me


 lucky escape that - could've been really embarrassing!


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## User16625 (6 Nov 2017)

[QUOTE 5014775, member: 9609"]have you rear ended anything recently ?[/QUOTE]

what!


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## Milzy (6 Nov 2017)

Always have toe over lap on road frames.


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