# my project and braking on a trike



## paul fellows (28 Mar 2015)

about my project, i imagin that a tadpole will want to turn when braking. [tank style] i have looked at a chunk of this bit of this site and it dose not seam to be mentioned as a problem. so am i imagining a problem that dose not exist, or is it a real problem with a very simple solution that is so obvious that it is not worth mentioning.


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## Turbo Rider (28 Mar 2015)

I have no idea what you said...it's been a long morning though, so I'll assume it's me.


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## classic33 (29 Mar 2015)

Tank steering doesn't come with a recumbent trike, as a built in problem.
Brakes are split as per regulations, front & rear.

You can, if you feel like trying, start the turn and lean into the turn slightly, then applying the front brakes. The lighter loaded outer wheel will continue to turn on the heavier loaded inside wheel. With the weight of the rider and the trike behind the front wheels helping in the manouvre.

Get it wrong and you'll end up on the road however.


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## paul fellows (29 Mar 2015)

2 hands 3 brakes. How dose that work? do you fasten both front brakes to one lever. There is mention of a free wheel back brake but I don’t want to have to keep peddling all the time.

The idea I am kicking around is to have the trike frame lean into the corners bike style, to go round sweeping bends a speed. But to stay up right when turning sharp corners slowly.


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## stuee147 (29 Mar 2015)

paul fellows said:


> 2 hands 3 brakes. How dose that work? do you fasten both front brakes to one lever. There is mention of a free wheel back brake but I don’t want to have to keep peddling all the time.
> 
> The idea I am kicking around is to have the trike frame lean into the corners bike style, to go round sweeping bends a speed. But to stay up right when turning sharp corners slowly.




easy you only need 2 levers as you would any other bike but one lever will either be a duel cable lever or you can rig up a cable splitter as i did on MK1 i had a single cable from the leaver that went under the seat and there split in two like a giant version of the brakes on a MTB i think they are called center pull brakes but i may be wrong. 
on MK2 i have a duel lever both ways work its just preferance. 
one thing i would say is with the duel lever you have 2 cables coming from it if you also have your gears then maybe an e-kit it can become like spagettie junction if your not careful lol 

here is a pic of the duel lever






they also come in side by side cable outlets but i think the over under like this is a bit neater 

hope this has helped 

stuee


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## paul fellows (29 Mar 2015)

thanks. and nice.
in that order.


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## Tigerbiten (29 Mar 2015)

How much brake steer you get depends both on the angle of the king post and where the extension of the king post intersects with the contact point of the tyre.
Get them both right and you'll have very little brake steer.

With the brakes you have two options.
Both front off lever and the back brake off the other. 
That the strictly legal option but .........
Each front brake off it's own lever and the back brake off a friction gear lever (only used as a drag/parking brake) gives you more braking options.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2015)

stuee147 said:


> easy you only need 2 levers as you would any other bike but one lever will either be a duel cable lever or you can rig up a cable splitter as i did on MK1 i had a single cable from the leaver that went under the seat and there split in two like a giant version of the brakes on a MTB i think they are called center pull brakes but i may be wrong.
> on MK2 i have a duel lever both ways work its just preferance.
> one thing i would say is with the duel lever you have 2 cables coming from it if you also have your gears then maybe an e-kit it can become like spagettie junction if your not careful lol
> 
> ...


Seem to remember seeing that picture before somewhere!
If I remember correctly you used side-pull brakes on MkI.

Another option for two brakes, one lever, is the use of cables for tandem use.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2015)

paul fellows said:


> 2 hands 3 brakes. How dose that work? do you fasten both front brakes to one lever. There is mention of a free wheel back brake but I don’t want to have to keep peddling all the time.
> 
> The idea I am kicking around is to have the trike frame lean into the corners bike style, to go round sweeping bends a speed. But to stay up right when turning sharp corners slowly.


How fast are you looking at actually travelling?
20mph & above, I find myself leaning into corners just so I know there's less chance of it going over sideways. I'm on four wheels as well.


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## starhawk (30 Mar 2015)

I have 2 brake levers, one for each front wheel, I have never experienced "brake steering" but I have an ICE trike, they are designed with no brake steering so it's a question of the design of the trike


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## paul fellows (30 Mar 2015)

my speed [slowness] is 10 mph or so, and i will not not be peddeling harder on laid back cycling trip.
now i know i will comply with the law two front bakes on one hand one back brake on the other.
the idea, if can pull it of, is to have the frame lean like a normal bike. but keeping all three wheels on the ground.


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## stuee147 (30 Mar 2015)

classic33 said:


> Seem to remember seeing that picture before somewhere!
> If I remember correctly you used side-pull brakes on MkI.
> 
> Another option for two brakes, one lever, is the use of cables for tandem use.



your right the front brakes on MK1 are side pull brakes i was more trying to describe how i split the single cable from the leaver devide into 2 for the 2 front brakes. i used the little conecter thingy that you have on MTB brakes that i think are called center pull brakes but not sure its where you have the small lengh of cable from one side to the other and its held by a metal hooky thingy above the tire and is pulled straight up. 
i really should start learning the proper names for things lol


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## paul fellows (30 Mar 2015)

i might stick the second front brake leave beside the first, so they both get pulled at the same time.


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## classic33 (30 Mar 2015)

paul fellows said:


> my speed [slowness] is 10 mph or so, and i will not not be peddeling harder on laid back cycling trip.
> now i know i will comply with the law two front bakes on one hand one back brake on the other.
> the idea, if can pull it of, is to have the frame lean like a normal bike. but keeping all three wheels on the ground.


Not doable unless the frame is split into two. With where the rider sits/is seated treated as a seperate frame, which will be allowed to bend into the corners because it is mounted on some kind of suspension.


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## paul fellows (30 Mar 2015)

Classic33 you are probably right, im still trying to work things out. but look at the last video of Cunobelin posted here https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/help-with-trike-ideas.176836/
it strikes me that if i lift the left front wheel up a bit and push the right one down, that should tilt the full trike to the left. i could be wrong, it would not be the first time.


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## classic33 (31 Mar 2015)

paul fellows said:


> Classic33 you are probably right, im still trying to work things out. but look at the last video of Cunobelin posted here https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/help-with-trike-ideas.176836/
> it strikes me that if i lift the left front wheel up a bit and push the right one down, that should tilt the full trike to the left. i could be wrong, it would not be the first time.


How can lifting one side, thereby having no traction on that wheel, make the heavier loaded outside wheel turn the trike sharper?

Have a look at http://www.easystreetrecumbents.com/articles/2010/06/trike-cornering/


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## Tigerbiten (1 Apr 2015)

The fastest you can go around a corner on a tadpole is with the inside front wheel just off the ground ........ 
Any faster and the inside wheel lifts further and you end up flipping it.
Any slower and you don't lift the inside wheel at all.


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## paul fellows (1 Apr 2015)

Sorry I explained that badly.
I meant lift it with regards to the trike’s frame, it of cause stays on the ground, there by causing the full frame to lean.

As to how?
Visualize it like this: take a strip of card. fold the two ends at an angle, to form a flat triangle. Open it up to make part of a deformed cube. Look at the way the two arms move as you steer them right or left.


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## raleighnut (1 Apr 2015)

A lot of upright trikes have dual brakes on the front wheel and none on the rear, I think the law says you must have 2 independent brakes in case 1 fails. If I had a tadpole (when I get a tadpole) I'd want 1 brake on each side for the fronts and a drag brake for the rear on a friction shifter mounted on the left hand bar fitted so it could be applied with the 'heel' of my palm.


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## byegad (1 Apr 2015)

As a trike rider since 2007 I have some points.
1. Assuming two wheels at the front forget a rear brake for anything but parking. Both my tadpoles, the QNT with SA drum brakes and the Trail with Avid BB7 discs will lift the rear wheel clear off the ground under hard braking. A rear brake used as a drag brake on 20%+ hills will tend to lock up and once locked will cause you severe problems.
2. Linked brakes with one lever may sound good, but in effect limits your braking to the grip of the lighter wheel. You rightly point out that you will unload the inner wheel at speed.
3. Brake Steer, the tendency of a trike to turn towards the strongest (or only brake applied) brake is controlled by clever design, my QNT will pull up with very little and easily corrected brake steer with only one brake even when that brake is on the point of locking up. (That is when it is exerting maximum deceleration.) 
4. The ability to lightly drag the brake in the inside wheel as you are already making a sharp fast turn makes the trike turn into the corner, even on the QNT this is worth doing! Also when the inside wheel stops rotating you know you have lifted that wheel clear of the road. A clear sign to ease off!
5. For a Delta, like my Kettwiesel, a front brake has limited use as the front wheel is very lightly loaded and would lock up before weight transference to the front occurs. My BB7 equipped Kett' will brake much like an upright bike whereas the tadpoles will out brake _any_ upright in any conditions. 
6. Deltas tend to have more brake steer, it is very useful for fast cornering! But less useful unless you can easily modulate the individual brakes on the rear wheels. This applies less so on a tadpole but I for one wouldn't entertain linking the brakes as with one wheel on gravel and the other on clean tarmac the trike will turn away from the gravel, *hard*, being able to ease the brake on the gripping wheel keeps you straight.

Hope this helps.


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## paul fellows (1 Apr 2015)

iv got most of my bits now. 3 wheels 3 brakes and 3 leavers. all is well, for now. thanks for the extra input


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## Tigerbiten (1 Apr 2015)

Due to only having one hand, I run linked front brakes on my ICE Sprint.

The limit on braking in a corner is from the outside/loaded wheel.
If it was from the inside/unloaded wheel then I'd get no braking effect once I'd lifted it off the ground in a corner.


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## ufkacbln (1 Apr 2015)

The answers are as diverse as the questions

Look at the range of trikes and they are ll different in the way they steer, brake and park

I have a Catrike that has independent front wheel brakes ... and that is it. Parking is by a band round the lever

My Gekko has independent front brakes with a locking mechanism that acts as a parking brake

The Kettwiesel has independent rear brakes with a parking lock on the right hand brake

My Trice had drum brakes from a single lever and a parking brake operated by a friction gear lever

It is entirely up to you


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