# hardtail help



## archenemy (21 Sep 2009)

i'm trying to talk my boss into the cycle to work scheme but i'm stuck on which bike to get if he does say yes.
one of the bikes i'm looking at is a giant talon 0 or orange p7s but as i do not know how a steel rides i'm heading for the talon as any one got a talon and how do you find it.
i'm going to try and see if i can get to have a ride on the p7 near me if they have one but is there any other bikes i should look at apart from specialized as i feel every one has.
thanks


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## RedBike (21 Sep 2009)

If the bike really is for riding to work on (along the road) then I wouldn't get a MTB at all.


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## archenemy (21 Sep 2009)

sorry but i could not be roadie i love being off road as much as pos as there are to meny idiots in cars on the road.


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## Mr Pig (21 Sep 2009)

You really want to ride/try out all of the bikes you are considering. When I chose my current bike, a Genesis Altitude, it was between that and a Specialized Rockhopper. I tried both and they were massively different with the steel-framed Genesis being much more comfortable. Steel rides nice, I'd buy the P7.


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## maurice (22 Sep 2009)

P7 is a nice bike, I'd be angling for a test ride.

Alternatively Orange do an 'Evo' bike for a bit cheaper that's alloy if you're that way inclined (like me).


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## 02GF74 (22 Sep 2009)

archenemy said:


> sorry but i could not be roadie i love being off road as much as pos as there are to meny idiots in cars on the road.




agreed; I try to be a roadie, but where I live, too close to londonium, I am limited in the routes I can take to get away from cars.


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## Jonathan M (22 Sep 2009)

archenemy said:


> sorry but i could not be roadie i love being off road as much as pos as there are to meny idiots in cars on the road.




There are very few places where a person could ride to work and not encounter tarmac & vehicles at some point. Do you live in the Outer Hebrides? 

Seriously though a few things to think about. Your boss will be less keen to agree the scheme if he feels it will be misused - such as buying MTB's that see plenty of use but never for cycling to work. My employer (an NHS hospital) only allows people to sign up during a 4 week period in the spring. Reason? Less chance of people "not liking" the bike and it suddenly ending up under the Xmas tree for teenage child, and spring is probably a great time to truly take to a cycle to work lifestyle change. 
Equally if your storage facilities are like mine (a set of railings on site) then any bike is vulnerable but the more "bling" a bike, the more likely it is to be nicked, and locally the scallys would probably still go for a decent brand MTB over a decent brand road bike.
Finally how far do you have to travel? My riding is in the region of only 12 miles or so, but on road that is more suited to a road bike than MTB.


But as an aside, I like steel hardtail MTB's, I've had an Orange C16R, a Marin Pine Mountain, and currently a Cove Handjob - a really great bike, but truly lousy "fnaaar" name. I've got to qualify this by stating I've never ridden an aluminium hardtail though!!


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## archenemy (22 Sep 2009)

I work at a garden centre in the aquatics and ride every day through out the year and if I can get out when I’m off I will do going off road.
There is about 2 mile through fields and woodland, which I’ve started using going to work and back as its downhill on the way back.
I my self do about 12 mile a day and between 20 and 60 miles if it’s a bike n p*** up but at the moment I’ve just started a bit of training as I’m thinking of the kielder 100 mile next year.
I bet Jonathan you have been asked about the cove handjob a few times with a daft grin on there faces they say steel is a softer ride but until I have a go I will not find out.
Thanks


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## Mr Pig (23 Sep 2009)

archenemy said:


> They say steel is a softer ride but until I have a go I will not find out.



Takes about thirty seconds! I rode the Rockhopper straight after the Genesis, not impressed.


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## gaz (23 Sep 2009)

I preferred the alu frame of my GT Avalanche over any steel frame i have ridden!


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## Jonathan M (23 Sep 2009)

archenemy said:


> I work at a garden centre in the aquatics and ride every day through out the year and if I can get out when I’m off I will do going off road.
> There is about 2 mile through fields and woodland, which I’ve started using going to work and back as its downhill on the way back.
> I my self do about 12 mile a day and between 20 and 60 miles if it’s a bike n p*** up but at the moment I’ve just started a bit of training as I’m thinking of the kielder 100 mile next year.
> I bet Jonathan you have been asked about the cove handjob a few times with a daft grin on there faces *they say steel is a softer ride but until I have a go I will not find out.*
> Thanks



Thats the only way to find out - as I say I've never ridden an alu MTB, but would imagine there is a difference between a decent steel frame & alu frame.


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## archenemy (23 Sep 2009)

1 of the bikes i've been looking at is the giant talon 0 it has a good write up but i can't think of any others with a good spec and frame.
thanks


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## Mr Pig (23 Sep 2009)

If I had that money to spend on a hardtail I'd be looking at Orange, Genesis or other quality steel bike. 



> I preferred the alu frame of my GT Avalanche over any steel frame i have ridden!



Fair enough. My wife has a GT and I find that really nice to ride too. I think it's more to do with the geometry and size though, it just seems to fit nicely.


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## maurice (23 Sep 2009)

For the other side of the coin, in my opinion steel is over-rated.

My M5 alloy Stumpjumper rides far nicer than my steel Kona did. It's also a fair bit lighter than 99% of steel bikes so handles better too. Regular 60 mile off-road rides are not noticeably less comfortable.

I suspect tyres make much more of a difference - I'd be willing to put money on an alloy bike with 2.25 tyres being comfier than a steel bike with 1.8's.

If you really want a softer ride get a full-suss bike.


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## Mr Pig (23 Sep 2009)

The weight is a consideration, I reckon a steel bike will be about two-pounds heavier than the equivalent steel one, which makes a difference. 

I find my steel bike significantly less jarring compared to aluminium bikes with similar tyres. Other aluminium bikes may well be better than the ones I've owned and tried though, which again emphasizes the importance of trying the bikes out before you buy.


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## Jonathan M (24 Sep 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> The weight is a consideration, I reckon a steel bike will be about two-pounds heavier than the equivalent steel one, which makes a difference.



i assume ou mean a steel bike will be 2lbs heavier than an equivalent aluminium bike?

Depends on what budget you can go to. Was out riding with a mate the other week, he has a trek that he paid in the region of £1000 for, and has a smaller frame size than my Cove. When he lugged both bikes over a stile he commented that he was surprised how light the Cove was, it wasn't lighter than his, but I think the black paint job and oversize down tube means the bike looks heavier than it really is.

But then the Cove when I got it was a £350 steel frame, and was built up for not much more than £1100, I think with steel it really is a case of you get what you pay for.


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## Mr Pig (24 Sep 2009)

Jonathan M said:


> i assume ou mean a steel bike will be 2lbs heavier than an equivalent aluminium bike?



Yes. I know it's a generalisation. I came up with the figure because at the time I bought my bike Genesis did an aluminium bike called the Core which had exactly the same components as the Altitude 00 bolted to a alu frame. It was two pounds lighter and looking at a few other bikes that seemed to be about the size of it. Obviously, if you buy a better, more expensive, steel bike it will be lighter and could easily be lighter than some aluminium ones. The frame is just one part of the deal. 

I noticed the difference straight away. As soon as I went out on the Altitude I knew it was slower. However I enjoy riding it much more which for me is more important. If I'd wanted to cover the ground as quickly as possible I would've bought the rockhopper but I'd rather be happy to ride the bike for two hours instead of wanting to get off it after one.


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## Matty (11 Oct 2009)

I have recently acquired a Giant XTC4, not too disimilar to your proposed Talon0. It is excellent. Really comfy, comparing to a 1991 Kona Cindercone. Big fat 2.1" tyres, suspension, flies over fields/tracks.

I've used it for commuting on the road once or twice, only ~1 or 2 mph slower than the Kona (which is running slicks). 

Matt


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