# I am gobsmacked!



## User16625 (16 Aug 2016)

Went into my LBS looking to buy a new MTB full sus. Was prepared to hand over £1700 and even signed a disclaimer form so I could ride the bike (albeit only around their car park). Never even bothered. Was told that the brakes (Shimano Deore XT) had no adjustment option. I wanted to bring the pads on the rear brake closer to the disc but was told this was not possible. The only adjustment was lever reach.

Call me pedantic but there is no way I would pay any amount for any bike where I have no control over brake pad/block clearance. I assumed this was a basic. Even Halfords cheapies have adjustment (altho they are still shoot). 

I mentioned my Hayes Sole brakes on my 9 year old MTB did have such adjustment, and it only cost half as much.

Apparently I have to spend £3k plus for a full sus bike with such brakes, or simply buy that bike and upgrade the brakes. Not worth the faff.


----------



## screenman (16 Aug 2016)

What advantage would you have got by bringing the pads closer?


----------



## User16625 (16 Aug 2016)

screenman said:


> What advantage would you have got by bringing the pads closer?



Reduced the excessive lever travel before the bite point. I cant stand it personally, however strong the brakes are after that point. The front one seemed to have the bite point further out, but I still require the ability to adjust. Wont the lever travel become greater as the pads wear? Last thing I want is the lever coming back to the handlebars before maximum braking is achieved. Just doesnt make sense. I dont know about cars, but even my motorcycle has an adjuster on the lever that sets the bit point further out. As the pads wear, I turn this adjuster over time.


----------



## screenman (16 Aug 2016)

The reason I ask is despite using hydraulic discs for many years I have never encountered a problem, I will have to keep my eye's open for it. Mind you my wheels would lock up long before maximum braking is achieved.


----------



## MikeW-71 (16 Aug 2016)

Hydraulic discs adjust themselves as the pads wear. Car brakes do the same.


----------



## fossyant (16 Aug 2016)

SRAM Guide R aren't adjustable either. No big deal.

Only issue, went and rode my old MTB last weekend and nearly crashed into the back of my wife's bike. Bloody canti brakes aren't a patch on finger press hydraulic brakes.


----------



## Profpointy (16 Aug 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Reduced the excessive lever travel before the bite point. I cant stand it personally, however strong the brakes are after that point. The front one seemed to have the bite point further out, but I still require the ability to adjust. Wont the lever travel become greater as the pads wear? Last thing I want is the lever coming back to the handlebars before maximum braking is achieved. Just doesnt make sense. I dont know about cars, but even my motorcycle has an adjuster on the lever that sets the bit point further out. As the pads wear, I turn this adjuster over time.



The adjuster on a motorcycle lever is just the hand position. It doesn't adjust the actual brakes as such. Assuming the pedal cycle had hydraulics there similarly wouldn't be a pad adjustment. Cable discs I know nothing about but presume they would need to be adjustable


----------



## MikeW-71 (16 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Cable discs I know nothing about but presume they would need to be adjustable


Cable discs have pad adjusters, and need to be re-adjusted as pads wear in the same way as rim brakes.


----------



## I like Skol (16 Aug 2016)

Stig, this is a non-issue and you are over thinking the situation. Get the XT brakes, they are the best you will ever use and there is no need to reduce the clearance. I would suggest that if the bike you tried had excessive lever travel then the brake concerned needed bleeding properly. The lever adjustment is all you need to balance the biting point between front and rear. I run the XT's on my commuter and MTB (and now the road equivalent on my new enduroad bike) and once set up they require nothing other than occasional pad replacement.


----------



## Levo-Lon (17 Aug 2016)

As above..


----------



## Phaeton (17 Aug 2016)

Do all cars/motorcycles/lorries/busses have adjusters on their hydraulic disc brakes, no, as per above as they are hydraulic they are not needed, cable brakes are totally different


----------



## Jody (17 Aug 2016)

I thought XT brakes have free float adjustment? That's the only difference between SLX and XT, apart from a bolt holding the pads rather than a split pin. The lever travel will stay the same as pads wear due to piston adjustment But as Skol points out the only thing you really need is reach adjustment to get the brakes feeling right as there is very little throw in Shimano hydraulics.


----------



## Levo-Lon (17 Aug 2016)

Jody said:


> I thought XT brakes have free float adjustment? That's the only difference between SLX and XT, apart from a bolt holding the pads rather than a split pin. The lever travel will stay the same as pads wear due to piston adjustment But as Skol points out the only thing you really need is reach adjustment to get the brakes feeling right as there is very little throw in Shimano hydraulics.



they do but its debatable as to whether they actually work..

the high end codeR and odd others have pad gap adjustment ..it involes adjustment after the fluid entry point ..bit gimicky but may be more for high heat DH application..or such like..


----------



## keithmac (18 Aug 2016)

There is something deffinitely wrong with your motorcycle if you have to adjust the lever reach to compensate for pad wear, the hydraulic master cylinder is self adjusting by design. 

Pistons sticking in the calipers can cause spongy lever feel and excess travel..

I would have it checked over to ensure your calipers are in correct working order..



RideLikeTheStig said:


> Reduced the excessive lever travel before the bite point. I cant stand it personally, however strong the brakes are after that point. The front one seemed to have the bite point further out, but I still require the ability to adjust. Wont the lever travel become greater as the pads wear? Last thing I want is the lever coming back to the handlebars before maximum braking is achieved. Just doesnt make sense. I dont know about cars, but even my motorcycle has an adjuster on the lever that sets the bit point further out. As the pads wear, I turn this adjuster over time.


----------



## User16625 (18 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> There is something deffinitely wrong with your motorcycle if you have to adjust the lever reach to compensate for pad wear, the hydraulic master cylinder is self adjusting by design.
> 
> Pistons sticking in the calipers can cause spongy lever feel and excess travel..
> 
> I would have it checked over to ensure your calipers are in correct working order..



The reach isnt adjusted. There is a little circular thing with numbers 1-5. Rotating this adjusts the bite point of the brake. There is an identical device on the clutch lever, altho I never tried that one.


----------



## Levo-Lon (18 Aug 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> The reach isnt adjusted. There is a little circular thing with numbers 1-5. Rotating this adjusts the bite point of the brake. There is an identical device on the clutch lever, altho I never tried that one.



no thats nothing to do with pad adjustment..
its the span only..so your moving the lever further away so in effetc you commpress the piston sooner in relation to your hand grip span ,so your less likely to pull the lever to the bar..the master cylinder piston is not adjustable..
if you were to push it even a few mm you would have a fluid lock as soon as the fluid warms..and the wheel brake will lock on solid until it cools..


----------



## Salty seadog (18 Aug 2016)

MikeW-71 said:


> Hydraulic discs adjust themselves as the pads wear. Car brakes do the same.




Can someone explain how, genuinly interested?


----------



## I like Skol (18 Aug 2016)

Salty seadog said:


> Can someone explain how, genuinly interested?


Yes, really simple. As the master cylinder returns to the rest position it passes a small port that allows fluid from the reservoir to flow in. This also allows expanded fluid and fluid pushed back up the line when fitting new pads to flow into the reservoir. As the pads wear the calliper pushes out further and retains additional fluid, this is replaced from the reservoir each time the brakes are fully released. If you think about it like pushrod brakes then the extra fluid getting in to the brake line is like making the pushrod longer to compensate for wear.


----------



## Levo-Lon (20 Aug 2016)

Too add to the perfect description above..
hydraulic brakes have 2 rubber sealing rings in the caliper that seal the piston and caliper to stop fluid leaking out...these are what make the brakes relax after application so the brakes dont drag.
the flex ' elasticity'in the seals retracts the pads by a very small amount..
dirt and old seals ' loss of elasticity' can often cause the brakes to bind or cause excessive lever travel depending on whether the seals are stuck with dirt..tho dirt and corosion are the big problem as a rule over time.
a good clean of the pistons is essential when fitting new pads as just shoving them bach un-cleaned is the start of future brake problems..if you cant buy new seals its often the death nell for the brakes.

so when you fit new pads or ever need to retract the caliper pistons take a few mins to clean them first with a small tooth brush or something that will get into the nooks and crannies , brake cleaner works well for washing down removing dust..


----------



## Cubist (20 Aug 2016)

XT brakes have bite point and lever reach adjustment. The servo wave shape of the lever cam means that the pads sit out of the way of the rotors rather than nearer to them. I have XT brakes on all my MTBs and wouldn't use anything g else. They really are fit, adjust for lever feel preference, and forget.


----------



## Drago (20 Aug 2016)

I don't know of any hydraulic brakes, be it bicycle, car or even aircraft, that have such and adjuster. It'd be an utterly pointless mechanism on a system that very effectively self adjusts with use and wear.

There are some with an adjuster, such as the super XT stoppers, but that affects the valving and the feel rather than any physical measurement at the pad-disc interface, and then there's lever span adjustment. But a pad adjuster....? About as useful as a periscope on a parrot.


----------



## Levo-Lon (20 Aug 2016)

Periscope on a parrot!! Quality @Drago


----------



## Profpointy (20 Aug 2016)

meta lon said:


> Periscope on a parrot!! Quality @Drago



yebbutt what if a parrot needs to peep over the gunwails on his pirate ship when it's under fire?


----------



## Levo-Lon (20 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> yebbutt what if a parrot needs to peep over the gunwails on his pirate ship when it's under fire?



as in 'I see no ships?"


----------

