# Assesing The Risk of Ice



## Banjo (21 Nov 2016)

I am getting more wary of ice as time goes by.

I have been lucky to have slid off multiple times on ice without any real injuries but dont bounce quite as well anymore.

My guideline now is not to use lanes if temp is less than 3 degrees C ( or has been over the previous ).night.
Rain followed by frost is dangerous but run off from fields can catch you out.


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## Dayvo (21 Nov 2016)

To me, it's pretty clear: I don't and will not ride in snowy or icy conditions.

I've broken my collar bone once (under different circumstances) and 'suspect' that riding in the winter (especially here in Norway) would definitely result in a fall _sooner_ rather than later.

A lot of winter commuters either use studded tyres or ride those 'fat bikes' and I admire their determination to not let them be stopped by a bit of snow. Maybe if they've had a broken a collarbone/wrist/ribs/head, then they might not be so eager. 

As Banjo mentioned above, he doesn't bounce as well as he did, and nor do I. Plus I've recently slipped a disc in my lower back and don't want to invite any unwanted pain or discomfort.

But good luck if you do. At least a snowy winter in Britain/southern England doesn't last too long.


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## Supersuperleeds (21 Nov 2016)

Second bike with ice tyres is what you need. Any sign of ice then I use the ice bike


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## gbb (21 Nov 2016)

I spent years commuting all winter and I found several things...
Town or urban cycling isn't too bad, the roads are usually gritted. Rarely ever had problems, and yet black ice will have you off in an instant. Thankfully I've found black ice to be very rare.
Countryside cycling requires great care, following things I've found...
Even once the sun's up and the frosts melted, beware those patches where the sun hasn't got to.
Beware those black shiny parts of the road where the tar has melted in the summer, in frosty conditions they become hyper slippery.
Changes in road surface deserve care.


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## summerdays (21 Nov 2016)

The danger signs for me are late evening rain followed by clear sky. And then in the morning the surface looking black and wet rather than dry and white. On those days it's the bike with studded tyres. Sometimes it's ok when you set off and you then come across an area which had that late night shower. Then it's a case of walking and going very slow, saddle lowered until you are past the worst. And aim for busy main roads that are more likely to be gritted.


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## ChrisEyles (21 Nov 2016)

I came off my bike several times last year on the ice, commuting to work early in the morning along country lanes (there is no other option from our house, and I didn't have a car at the time). When it was icy, sometimes I'd slip'n'slide through intact, sometimes I'd go down, and it didn't even seem to have much to do with how I rode. Fortunately I didn't injure myself and the only casualty was a cheap derailleur, but again, that was more luck than judgement. 

I wouldn't do it again! It's pot luck whether you make it over any given large patch of ice, and you can never 100% guarantee there won't be any ice in a given location (unless you ride the whole way at walking pace I guess!). 

I'd agree that riding in town or busier roads is fine though, if they're well gritted as they usually are (I've never had a problem in years of such conditions). 

I think making the judgement call about road conditions is a really important thing to be able to do. If you have the option of taking the car when you suspect there will be ice on the roads, it's daft not to, in my honest opinion.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2016)

Yes, but how do you decide if it's icy?

I look at pots and pools of water outside my house, plus I'm much warier if it's below 4degrees C. I will usually take the studded tyre bike if there's any doubt in my mind... and t'other half hasn't taken it already.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2016)

ChrisEyles said:


> If you have the option of taking the car when you suspect there will be ice on the roads, it's daft not to, in my honest opinion.


Sliding off the road in a car after hitting a surprise icy patch at 30+mph isn't really safe for you, plus you're much more likely to hurt someone else. It's daft to drive in such conditions. Ice bikes are the only responsible way.


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## ufkacbln (21 Nov 2016)

Solved...


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## Dayvo (21 Nov 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> Solved...



That's all very good, but sitting stationary won't get you very far and you'll get cold quickly!


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## Ajax Bay (21 Nov 2016)

@Zeffer 's experience Keep getting better, Z.


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## Shaun (21 Nov 2016)

How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?


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## GGJ (21 Nov 2016)

I was out in the country lanes today, temperature was between -1°C and +1°C. Lots of slippery patches on the roads but no black ice. I listen to the road, if it's icy the road is silent, spookily silent.


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## ufkacbln (21 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?



I made a massive error!

I decided on a Marathon Winter on the rear to allow the grip and drive the trike

It was brilliant... until I decided to stop and realised that additional grip on the front tyres would allow braking

I now have these available and fit them on all three wheels

.. back to the question.

There is some contact at high pressures and a characteristic "buzz" as the studs hit the road. The number of studs impacting rises with low pressure, so lowering pressure does increase grip

I run mine at 35 - 40 in bad conditions, and have never slid yet


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?


Very effective, think riding a mini, two wheeled tractor 
The other morning I was cycling to work at around 6am, on the non treated path, a pedestrian warned me about the ice ahead, I did not feel any on the bike, could see it though.
Riding over metal can still make you slip.
One does not do extreme angles on icy conditions, but yes, the studs on my tyres run out to the sides.
I think there is a cheaper version with only two rows of studs in the middle.


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## dim (21 Nov 2016)

I don't use front brakes when it's icy .... never ....

I learned that when I used to ride motorcycles

I cycled throughout last winter on Schwalbe Durano Plus tyres (700x25), and luckily I never fell off in icy conditions, this year I'm using a Surly Long Haul Trucker as my winter bike, and I will be fitting new tyres soon (I'm still undecided but may opt for Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 26"x2"


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## ChrisEyles (21 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> Sliding off the road in a car after hitting a surprise icy patch at 30+mph isn't really safe for you, plus you're much more likely to hurt someone else. It's daft to drive in such conditions. Ice bikes are the only responsible way.



True, and there are definitely conditions in which I wouldn't want to take the car either. I certainly take it pretty slowly, but I've never once experienced any sliding out on ice in the car, despite commuting along the same routes at the same time of day. Not that I have any choice these days, since my commute is about 50 miles each way (first job I've ever had I couldn't cycle to )

I've never ridden on ice tyres, but they sound like something I should look into.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I think there is a cheaper version with only two rows of studs in the middle.


I think I've got the cheaper version but the two rows of studs are on the outside/shoulders, which means that if you're running at high pressures, they don't make contact and hitting ice will lose traction until the bike starts to tilt, then bite and regain traction. It works surprisingly well for patchy ice, but if you expect much ice, it's better to use lower pressures and have more consistent traction.

It is about as easy as pushing a tractor though and won't set any high speed records!


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## dim (21 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> I think I've got the cheaper version but the two rows of studs are on the outside/shoulders, which means that if you're running at high pressures, they don't make contact and hitting ice will lose traction until the bike starts to tilt, then bite and regain traction. It works surprisingly well for patchy ice, but if you expect much ice, it's better to use lower pressures and have more consistent traction.
> 
> It is about as easy as pushing a tractor though and won't set any high speed records!



those tyres are snow tyres .... not sure if they are effective for frost and black ice .... I may be wrong though


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## HLaB (21 Nov 2016)

I came off on ice twice last winter fortunately at only a few mph. One time I stupidly followed our group leader down a road I knew wouldn't have been gritted





The other time I was caught out was when it was raining (too warm for ice



) it was falling on solid ice was like marbles


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> those tyres are snow tyres .... not sure if they are effective for frost and black ice .... I may be wrong though


I've got a set of snow tyres too, Schwalbe ice spikers they are calles, basically four rows of studs on knobbies, they are great on ice too, but really hard work.
My commute is only 5 miles, so, all good even in snow.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2016)

ChrisEyles said:


> I certainly take it pretty slowly, but I've never once experienced any sliding out on ice in the car, despite commuting along the same routes at the same time of day. Not that I have any choice these days, since my commute is about 50 miles each way (first job I've ever had I couldn't cycle to )


Yes, most of my skidding was done driving commutes of about that distance, years ago. Slowing down helps avoid skids and leaving much longer gaps to the car in front is a very good idea. http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/988279/how-to-recover-from-a-skid suggests twelve seconds.

But ultimately, when you start to skid and the road is narrow or busy, you're lucky to get away without crashing.


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## mjr (21 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> those tyres are snow tyres .... not sure if they are effective for frost and black ice .... I may be wrong though


I've ridden over very slippy ice untroubled, but at the lower pressure so all studs in contact.


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## marshmella (21 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Very effective, think riding a mini, two wheeled tractor
> The other morning I was cycling to work at around 6am, on the non treated path, a pedestrian warned me about the ice ahead, I did not feel any on the bike, could see it though.
> Riding over metal can still make you slip.
> One does not do extreme angles on icy conditions, but yes, the studs on my tyres run out to the sides.
> I think there is a cheaper version with only two rows of studs in the middle.


I've gotta get mine out of the shed and onto the bike. Got away with it so far but icy conditions forecast for later in the week. When do you fit yours?


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## Tilley (21 Nov 2016)

Riding on snow is generally not problematic just like riding through mud. However if the snow is heavily compacted or has ice underneath that is a different scenario. I once made the foolish choice to ride into Bristol on the Bristol to Bath cycle path some days after a reasonably heavy snow fall. The snow on the track had been compacted by cyclists over the preceding days and had then frozen. It was somewhat like trying to cycle across a railway junction with masses of ridges and hollows. If I had taken to the roads I would have had less of a problem as they had all by that time been gritted and had little or no snow or ice. However at that time none of the cycle tracks were routinely gritted and I doubt that much has changed.


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## Tilley (21 Nov 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> Solved...


As your weight is spread over three wheels do you suffer from a lot of rear wheel spinning and if so do you also get tail end drift when cornering?


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Nov 2016)

marshmella said:


> I've gotta get mine out of the shed and onto the bike. Got away with it so far but icy conditions forecast for later in the week. When do you fit yours?


I've got a permanent ice bike 
Changed it this year, as somehow I've acquired an extra bike , so the new Winters went on the old hybrid, the old ice bike is now the snow bike.
There's also a redundant set of studded Winters, 24 they are, because I can ride teenagers bikes due to be vertically challenged 
This set up might change next winter!


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## dim (21 Nov 2016)

another problem at the moment is fallen leaves (especially if there are many and if they are wet) ... 

some of the roads that I commute are thick with fallen leaves at the moment ....


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## GGJ (21 Nov 2016)

Reading this thread has made me realise I have another excuse for n+1


Ice bike 


Not sure SWMBO will be happy about it


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## Slick (21 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> another problem at the moment is fallen leaves (especially if there are many and if they are wet) ...
> 
> some of the roads that I commute are thick with fallen leaves at the moment ....


I was the exact same. Loads of thick brown leaves on large sections of some cycle tracks I use going to work. Caused a few shaky turns as I try and resist using the front brake.


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## summerdays (21 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?


Brilliant IMO! It's actually fun to go out and play in snow, and nice though I'd still take it easy on ice! Just a bit noisy on tarmac.


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## Pat "5mph" (21 Nov 2016)

Pedestrians can hear you coming, other cyclists too, no need for a bell


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## classic33 (21 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Very effective, *think riding a mini, two wheeled tractor*
> The other morning I was cycling to work at around 6am, on the non treated path, a pedestrian warned me about the ice ahead, I did not feel any on the bike, could see it though.
> Riding over metal can still make you slip.
> One does not do extreme angles on icy conditions, but yes, the studs on my tyres run out to the sides.
> I think there is a cheaper version with only two rows of studs in the middle.


This!


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## mjr (22 Nov 2016)

classic33 said:


> This!
> View attachment 152080


It's got a motor so it's cheating. Make it electric and I'll consider it


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## classic33 (22 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> It's got a motor so it's cheating. Make it electric and I'll consider it


Two-wheeled tractor, and most tractors are I/C these days.


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## ufkacbln (22 Nov 2016)

Tilley said:


> As your weight is spread over three wheels do you suffer from a lot of rear wheel spinning and if so do you also get tail end drift when cornering?



One of the "problems" with the Marathon Winter is they do stop that fun!

The tyres make the grip better and stop sliding

Grip is the same as a car - correct gear and take it steady then there is no issue


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## fatjel (22 Nov 2016)

I don't go out early if it's below freezing overnight as a rule,
My first winter with the trike which is kinda making me wish for snow.
As ever with cycling it's the out of control cars that present the really serious danger


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## recycling (22 Nov 2016)

I have read this thread with interest as I have been told that studded tyres will be ruined by riding on tarmac for even a short distance, the studs pulling out of the tyres.
It seems from the above posts that this is not true, or has anyone had this happen ?


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## mjr (22 Nov 2016)

recycling said:


> I have read this thread with interest as I have been told that studded tyres will be ruined by riding on tarmac for even a short distance, the studs pulling out of the tyres.
> It seems from the above posts that this is not true, or has anyone had this happen ?


Not true in general. I think the instructions said to ride them on dry tarmac for a while without sharp braking or skidding to bed the studs in, but that was the start of last winter so I may not have remembered it exactly.

Who told you that? Even icy places clear some roads, so it would limit use a lot. They're not like snow chains on cars.


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## steveindenmark (22 Nov 2016)

When it is snowy and icy it is time for the scooter to come out. I have had some of my most memorable rides on cold, crisp, sunny days where there are no cars or bikes about. The good thing about the scooter is that it is easy to get on and off. How fast does it go? Well how fast do you ride a bike on snow and ice? I can keep up with you.


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## recycling (22 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> Not true in general. I think the instructions said to ride them on dry tarmac for a while without sharp braking or skidding to bed the studs in, but that was the start of last winter so I may not have remembered it exactly.
> 
> Who told you that? Even icy places clear some roads, so it would limit use a lot. They're not like snow chains on cars.


That is why I was asking, as it seemed impossible to avoid mixing tarmac and ice on a ride, and I couldn't see how such tyres could be used if it were true. 
With the benefit of your, and others, experience I think I may have to try some this winter.
Thanks for the reply.


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## Racing roadkill (22 Nov 2016)

Without the option of a quad / trike, there's zero chance of me riding on the road, on untreated roads, if there's a ground frost, ice, or snow. It's just not worth the risk. However, in those conditions, I'll gladly shove a mountain bike in the car, and drive somewhere with trails, then go and ride there. The 'no road bike' conditions rarely last more than a couple of weeks, in my neck of the woods anyway.


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## summerdays (22 Nov 2016)

recycling said:


> I have read this thread with interest as I have been told that studded tyres will be ruined by riding on tarmac for even a short distance, the studs pulling out of the tyres.
> It seems from the above posts that this is not true, or has anyone had this happen ?


I've had mine 5 years at least I think, on a second bike so not used daily in winter but mine still has the full set of studs and most of the time it's been ridden on icy tarmac or clear tarmac later in the day rather than snow.


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## MontyVeda (22 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?


My theory for riding when it's icy is to not take any corner at a speed that will lean the bike more than a couple of degrees... very slow and very steady usually keeps me upright.


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## mjr (22 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Pedestrians can hear you coming, other cyclists too, no need for a bell


The drawback of course is that you can always hear yourself coming, so playing some music on the loudspeaker becomes more attractive, as long as it won't be spoiled by the constant rrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRR....


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Nov 2016)

recycling said:


> I have read this thread with interest as I have been told that studded tyres will be ruined by riding on tarmac for even a short distance, the studs pulling out of the tyres.
> It seems from the above posts that this is not true, or has anyone had this happen ?


Not true if you do the bedding in properly.
Should you lose a few, though, email the schwalbe uk customer service, they will send you a handful for free.
You push them back in on a fully inflated tyre using a thin nosed pair of pliers and a dollop of washing up liquid.


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## classic33 (22 Nov 2016)

Will anyone admit to using a lower pressure in their tyres, without ice tyres?


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Nov 2016)

Minus 4 tonight according to the forecast: there will be ice for sure tomorrow at 7am, when I need to leave.
My ice bike won't fail me


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## summerdays (23 Nov 2016)

classic33 said:


> Will anyone admit to using a lower pressure in their tyres, without ice tyres?


I lower the pressure slightly in the studded ones when it's snowy but I don't think I've lowered the normal ones.


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## biggs682 (23 Nov 2016)

fatjel said:


> I don't go out early if it's below freezing overnight as a rule,
> As ever with cycling it's the out of control cars that present the really serious danger



My rule is simple like above if the cul de sac outside is white over then i wont go out 

if i do commute when frosty i use one of my older bikes so it doesnt matter ( £ wise) if gets damaged oh and ride carefully


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## Globalti (23 Nov 2016)

One of the best rides I ever had when I was a mountain biker was with Mrs Gti along the top of Holcombe Hill near Bury. It had snowed a couple of days before and the rocky lane along the top was filled in with drifted snow. Then it must have thawed a little and re-frozen, meaning that the lane was filled with a smooth undulating bed of solidified snow, with a grippy crunchy layer of hoar frost or grainy hail on top. We discovered you could blast along in complete safety at a good speed and we had an absolute ball. All the time snow showers kept blasting across followed by bright sun; it was so exhilarating. It was the nearest I've seen in Britain to the mythical spring snow that ski tourers will travel miles to find.


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## briantrumpet (23 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> Yes, most of my skidding was done driving commutes of about that distance, years ago. Slowing down helps avoid skids and leaving much longer gaps to the car in front is a very good idea. http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles/988279/how-to-recover-from-a-skid suggests twelve seconds.
> 
> But ultimately, when you start to skid and the road is narrow or busy, you're lucky to get away without crashing.


It sometimes doesn't matter if the road isn't narrow...


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## Globalti (23 Nov 2016)

GGJ said:


> Plenty of frost and ice on today's ride. Steer straight and no braking
> 
> View attachment 152270



Where the 'ell is that? You've got a private road!


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Nov 2016)

Plenty of ice on my commute too, hope some numpty without ice tyres does not crash into me, imagine speeding downhill a frozen path, brakes squealing like banshees ... I must overtake that slow woman in front!


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## GGJ (23 Nov 2016)

Globalti said:


> Where the 'ell is that? You've got a private road!



Supercyclinghighway on the A77 heading towards Glasgow from Ayrshire


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## mjr (23 Nov 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> It sometimes doesn't matter if the road isn't narrow...


Well, no, but imagine how many more of them would be stuck if the road was narrow!


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## fossyant (23 Nov 2016)

I haven't lost any studs on my snow studs (had them 5 years or more). Just don't go breaking hard at first - like you would as you'll still be pooping yourself that these things 'can't possibly work' - they do. 

I'm going to fit mine again for night rides on the canals and farm tracks. 

When I was commuting, they were a life saver - guaranteed to get to work safely. You can't defy physics, but if you corner carefully, you get round no problem.


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## briantrumpet (23 Nov 2016)

mjr said:


> Well, no, but imagine how many more of them would be stuck if the road was narrow!


True. Fortunately the sort of road conditions there (snow on top of solid sheets ice) are rare here, in most parts of the UK. After that video, I let it play on to this one. That people are trying to go about their daily business in those conditions is crazy... but inevitable, I suppose, if that's where you live, and that's the sort of road conditions that happen...



I rather like in insouciance (sorry, just fancied using the word) of the cyclist near the beginning...


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## mjr (24 Nov 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> True. Fortunately the sort of road conditions there (snow on top of solid sheets ice) are rare here, in most parts of the UK. After that video, I let it play on to this one. That people are trying to go about their daily business in those conditions is crazy... but *inevitable,* I suppose, if that's where you live, and that's the sort of road conditions that happen...


I've known those conditions three times in the last decade (split over two winters IIRC) so I guess it's fairly rare, but while it's inevitable that people still need to go about their daily business if it lasts more than a day or two, it's not inevitable that they have to take unequipped vehicles onto the roads and I think they should be ashamed of doing so.

The first time it happened, I was unprepared and had left our car in a place where it was cut off from treated roads until the thaw, by steep slopes, junctions and sharp bends. So we walked miles to town to buy food or get to its train station to travel further, using yaktrax (or something like it) and a staff - various non-essential tasks got postponed, but we all got through without damage. And yet, there were nobbers sliding their cars into snowbanks (I helped push a couple out to safer locations down the hill) and someone even moved the "road closed" signs off the 1 in 4 direct road into town and had a go, with predictable damage to nearby buildings. It's stupid, a danger to anyone walking or cycling but I don't think anyone got hurt (I guess people can run faster than most sliding cars on small roads as they rarely go fast). I hope the motorists who caused damaged with unprepared vehicles were charged in full for their damage and got points/fines for careless/reckless driving!


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## Bicykell (24 Nov 2016)

Was out for a couple of hours this afternoon, stuck mainly to gritted roads. Got a bit scary near Skelton so got off and took this pic with my phone. Trouble is that this part of the world is just gorgeous in this weather.


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## smutchin (24 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?



Just to add to what has already been said, Marathon Winters are designed specifically for riding on icy roads. They have no studs in the centre of the tread, so in theory they're not much different to normal tyres when riding in a straight line on tarmac, as long as you have them at a high-ish pressure (still nowhere near normal road bike tyre pressure though). If you hit an icy patch and start to slip sideways, that's when the studs dig in and save you from a fall. It's quite unnerving the first few times it happens but once you get used to it, it feels great and fills you with confidence. 

There are different tyres with different stud patterns for riding in snow.



recycling said:


> I have read this thread with interest as I have been told that studded tyres will be ruined by riding on tarmac for even a short distance, the studs pulling out of the tyres.
> It seems from the above posts that this is not true, or has anyone had this happen ?



I've lost a few studs from mine but not enough to cause concern. As mentioned already, it is possible to replace them.


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## HLaB (28 Nov 2016)

Lol, I'm becoming a wuss in my old age; decided I'd drive in all the way tomorrow rather than cycle the last part in the forecast freezing fog. When it's been like this in the past I driven to where it's pancake flat and ran lower pressure in my tyres and been fine :-/ As it's dry I doubt there be any ice but as I said I'm getting old ;-)


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## mjr (29 Nov 2016)

Everything's white and the water trough is frozen solid so the morning market trip has become a lunchtime market trip for the first time this year!


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## Pat "5mph" (29 Nov 2016)

It's 5 degrees here, positively mild: no ice bike for me for my shift tonight.
Looks like it's going to stay mild for the next few days!


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## dave r (29 Nov 2016)

classic33 said:


> Will anyone admit to using a lower pressure in their tyres, without ice tyres?



Yes I've done that in the past, usually when its been snowing.


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## mjr (29 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> It's 5 degrees here, positively mild: no ice bike for me for my shift tonight.
> Looks like it's going to stay mild for the next few days!


Sub zero here most of the morning - first time like that this year. -1°c already again now. Ice bike pumped up, oiled and tested! After that, it seems forecast to warm up again until the end of the following week.


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## GGJ (29 Nov 2016)

I'm running my single speed on 23mm Gatorskins at 55-65psi


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## HLaB (29 Nov 2016)

Supposed to stay below freezing to 4AM here and remain 'feel like' -ve temps till 10am but after that its supposed to rise quickly to +5deg. If thats right I think I'm assessing another day of the bike


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## cyberknight (29 Nov 2016)

Been using the mtb but im swapping back to the roadie tomorrow , although the airs cold the ground isn't freezing so no ice about.


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## Pat "5mph" (30 Nov 2016)

Well, I rode back from work about an hour ago, it's warm, to warm to my Altura night vision.
Sitting here now without heating on. Only 2 days ago there was ice everywhere!


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## threefingerjoe (30 Nov 2016)

smutchin said:


> Marathon Winters are designed specifically for riding on icy roads. They have no studs in the centre of the tread, so in theory they're not much different to normal tyres when riding in a straight line on tarmac, as long as you have them at a high-ish pressure (still nowhere near normal road bike tyre pressure though). If you hit an icy patch and start to slip sideways, that's when the studs dig in and save you from a fall


Schwalbe must take a different approach than Nokian. I've been using the Nokian Hekkapalita 106 for the last 10 years or so. These tyres have 2 rows of studs toward the CENTER and are intended for ploughed roads that may have black ice, and work great on glazed ice. They also have a more aggressive tyre that has 4 rows, including 2 rows toward the side. These are intended for deeper snow to help you get out of ruts. Around here, our roads are usually ploughed, and I've always had good luck with the 2 row type.


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## MichaelW2 (30 Nov 2016)

Shaun said:


> How good are studded "ice" tyres? I've never used them - can the bike still slide from under you at extreme angles, or do the studs run out to the sides far enough to stop that happening?


 I made some studded tyres and they are good on black ice, and skating rink type compressed snow. Than angle of tip varies but generslly you ride conservstively, not flat out around corners and cambers.


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## MichaelW2 (30 Nov 2016)

The big risk of falling on ice is a fractured hip. Can you get hip protectors that you can ride with. American football padding now uses a smart material that stiffens on impact.


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## Tin Pot (30 Nov 2016)

*Tin Pot's Principle of Air Temperature Based Excercise*

>15C = Outdoor swimming, cycling and running
5-14C = Indoor swimming, cycling and running
<5C = Running and skiing


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## smutchin (30 Nov 2016)

threefingerjoe said:


> Schwalbe must take a different approach than Nokian.



I don't know, they sound fairly similar - the studs aren't very far off-centre, just far enough that they won't be in contact with the road if you have the tyres at maximum pressure. 

If you run them at lower pressure, the studs will be in contact with the road most of the time - 

The Marathon Winters actually have four rows of spikes - Schwalbe also make a basic Winter tyre with just two rows of spikes.


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## Pat "5mph" (30 Nov 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> <5C = Running and skiing


Can you not slip on ice while running? 
Or are there spiked running shoes? In that case, you might as well get spiked tyres for the bike and cycle too!


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## cyberknight (30 Nov 2016)

Note to self, check bike to ensure you try to ride to work on a turbo specific tyre ...................


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## Rickshaw Phil (30 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Can you not slip on ice while running?
> Or are there spiked running shoes? In that case, you might as well get spiked tyres for the bike and cycle too!


Yes, spikes are available for shoes too: Link


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## classic33 (30 Nov 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Can you not slip on ice while running?
> Or are there spiked running shoes? In that case, you might as well get spiked tyres for the bike and cycle too!


First cross country runs at secondary school, were done in spiked football boots. Not much good at the start, and got a laugh the first time.


Rickshaw Phil said:


> Yes, spikes are available for shoes too: Link


Try crampons!

Not many places let you in though.


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## Rickshaw Phil (30 Nov 2016)

classic33 said:


> Try crampons!
> 
> Not many places let you in though.


Got a set of those too - the microspike version which fit and remove easily.


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## mjr (30 Nov 2016)

MichaelW2 said:


> The big risk of falling on ice is a fractured hip. Can you get hip protectors that you can ride with. American football padding now uses a smart material that stiffens on impact.


I expect the mountain bikers have something, but I just wear a long enough coat!  In my experience, the big risk of falling on ice is bruising whatever hits the deck first, but I am always worried about the potential for a nobber motorist following too close.


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## cyberknight (1 Dec 2016)

Not ice related but i hit the deck today, rear wheel had been slipping under power so im guessing i had some oil / diesel on the tyre so when i went around a corner the rear wheel went and i have lovely road rash on my hip, handlebar tape ripped and shifter twisted round the bars.


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## dave r (1 Dec 2016)

cyberknight said:


> Not ice related but i hit the deck today, rear wheel had been slipping under power so im guessing i had some oil / diesel on the tyre so when i went around a corner the rear wheel went and i have lovely road rash on my hip, handlebar tape ripped and shifter twisted round the bars.


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## HLaB (1 Dec 2016)

cyberknight said:


> Not ice related but i hit the deck today, rear wheel had been slipping under power so im guessing i had some oil / diesel on the tyre so when i went around a corner the rear wheel went and i have lovely road rash on my hip, handlebar tape ripped and shifter twisted round the bars.


Hope you are feeling better. I didn't hit the deck but it felt pretty slippy today and after my back end drifted out I cycled pretty cautiously, my garmin said it was 0deg. A lot milder tonight 4deg according to the Garmin.


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## classic33 (1 Dec 2016)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> Got a set of those too - the microspike version which fit and remove easily.


Mine are more like these


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