# Touring with tandem and young child stoker, possible / reasonable?



## Time Waster (17 Aug 2018)

On way home from a harder than it should have been family cycle tour tour with partner and 5 year old all riding free on own bikes. Vecause we forgot to buy the qr bracket needed with junior's new bike to use with the followme-tandem. It meant we did a lot of pushing uphill with junior's bike on one bike and junior on the other.

So we spotted a Hase pino tandem with the recumbent front seat. Got my partner thinking it's a good idea for a tandem. Should add my son loved sitting on my recumbent seat. I'm not sure he'll like a normal tandem. 

So background over, time for my question. What tandem would suit us? 196cm, 160cm and 120cm are our heights. I can't see how but my partner wants a tandem that can fit our son (or be made to fit with crank shorteners/kiddicranks) when he's riding with either me or my partner, plus as a child taxi where the adult rides off solo after dropping junior at school.

Currently we tour with 2 standard Ortliebs, 2 x 35litre panniers and two front panniers on junior's bike. So this tandem would need to take 4 panniers (ideally 4x normal Ortliebs but 2x normal plus 2x front rollers). We could then get by with two on solo bike. Plus stand and usual touring necessities. 

So what tandem would suit us? Would any tandem suit us? Could try getting two Hase kettweisel recumbents and tandem kit of course but very bulky to put in / on a car. 

Other question is tandems on public transport, possible anywhere? This year used a lot of French public transport such as trains and buses. All with recumbent, normal bike and 20" wheel kids bike. Just don't look if you put a recumbent on a French bus bike rack, they sway and bounce around very alarmingly. I seriously doubt tandems would be allowed. Unless a fortune is spent on s&s couplings.

Third question, s&s couplings how do they work? Do you fold the tandem in half? What happens to the chains? Are they easy to pack up and small enough for bus holds or train luggage areas (in Brittany I saw the max size was 160cm x 90cm or something similar)?

I appreciate your patience in reading this and any advice you offer.


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## Dave 123 (22 Aug 2018)

Not quite a recumbent......

https://tandem-club.org.uk/forSale?cmd=view&id=105

From my calculations there’s 3 of you?


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## BobS (5 Oct 2018)

S&S coupling split the tandem into 2 or 3 parts. Ours splits in 2, the chain stays intact and the joins are all forward of the front rider seat post. Tandem then fits in a Corsa.

Regarding the child question we bought a child back tandem (you can't have too many tandems!) for the Grandson, works a treat, I fitted crank shortners. Been away on an overnight, and usually used 3 days a week on the school run (Sorry ride)

bob


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## Butterfly (20 Jan 2019)

We have a Circe Helios tandem that I ride with our 5 year old. It works really well and is incredibly stable. I keep the mileage per day fairly low - our longest days are 30 miles and I aim for under 20. He loves it and the the attention we get! Circe also make the Morpheus which is very similar to the Hase Pino and I really recommend them as a company. They are very helpful and you can basically customise the frame with whatever components suit you. I upgraded my frame to e-assist last year and I'm looking forward to touring on that. My next upgrade will be to have the splitable kit fitted so that I can take it on more trains with less worry. The Circe with couplings will fold into 2 fairly compact cases that are available from them. The Pino/Morpheus style won't fold so small due to the size of the front seat.

Because the Helios is quite small, it fits into bike spaces on some trains - I have taken it on southern and thameslink and the London Overground quite a bit and on the service from Kidderminster to Worcester. It went on the East coast route booked as 2 bikes when it was operated by virgin, but we have previously had problems with other operators on that route (and identical trains). It depends a lot on the guard and how busy the service is as well as the units they are running. The Tandem club have a list of the policies of the companies, but you can sometimes get away with it even where the official policy is No Tandems. The Pino and Morpheus also have a short footprint which helps. Abroad, there are various policies in different countries and you would need to check the specific route.

In short, touring with a child on a tandem is great fun, but needs a bit more planning than touring with solos, especially if you don't have couplings.


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## mickle (20 Jan 2019)

Josie Dew does a lot of tandeming with sprogs. josiedew.com


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## Sixmile (22 Jan 2019)

Butterfly said:


> View attachment 448008
> In short, touring with a child on a tandem is great fun, but needs a bit more planning than touring with solos, especially if you don't have couplings.



I'd love a Circe Tandem for the kids.

Can I ask the reason behind the bungee cord between the pedals?


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## Richard Fairhurst (22 Jan 2019)

We have a Morpheus too, and although our 2-year old is too little to pedal right now, he loves having his child seat on the front, watching the world go by, and commenting that "it's very bumpy" every time I hit a pothole . I suspect it'll get on some trains and not others - I've carried it on a local commuter (Turbo) train and don't see why it shouldn't fit on similar commuter stock, but I'd be very surprised if it were to fit on one of the new Hitachi inter-city trains with their narrow upright spaces. I agree that Circe are really helpful people.

Bike Friday are another option for child-friendly tandems. They do a separable Family Tandem, and a folding Tandem Two'sday (more expensive). We bought a secondhand Family Tandem for use in a few years' time - my six-year old nephew has stoked on it a handful of times and really enjoys it. BF don't have a UK dealer at the moment, which is exasperating, so scouring the second-hand market is probably the best bet.


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## Paul Walters (7 Jun 2019)

Richard Fairhurst said:


> We have a Morpheus too,



I'd love to hear a review of the Morpheus from someone who runs one. I am considering one for a 4,500 mile British Coast Circumnavigation next year. What sort of average speed could I expect on it over, say, 60-80 miles a day, with two adult riders? I've heard figures as low a 10mph, but I'd hope for something more like 15-18mph.


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## mickle (7 Jun 2019)

Sixmile said:


> Can I ask the reason behind the bungee cord between the pedals?



It's an old tandem hack - it keeps the pedals sunny side up which makes it easier to get your toe into the clip in a hurry.


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## Richard Fairhurst (7 Jun 2019)

Paul Walters said:


> I'd love to hear a review of the Morpheus from someone who runs one. I am considering one for a 4,500 mile British Coast Circumnavigation next year. What sort of average speed could I expect on it over, say, 60-80 miles a day, with two adult riders? I've heard figures as low a 10mph, but I'd hope for something more like 15-18mph.



We've not run it as a tandem yet - it's always me (or Mrs F) with Junior on the front, and at three years old he doesn't do much pedalling!

So in that configuration it's a bit of a tank. But I can average 10mph on it like that; with two adults pedalling I don't see why 15-18mph wouldn't be achievable. We met a couple in Pershore last year who were doing serious touring on a Hase Pino which is a very similar bike, and they seemed to be clocking up the miles.

It'll depend on gears, of course. We went for 1x11, with an Alfine 11 on the back, for simplicity. It gets up Cotswold hills including a local 8%er reasonably easily, but not fast. If you had a wider range - 3x8 or something - you'd be more able to maintain speed uphill.

The other thing that slows us down is having Marathon Plus tyres, which are indestructible but sluggish. I took the view that having to change an inner tube mid-ride with a toddler in tow was not something I wanted to do. If you got speedier tyres (I have 20in Marathon Supremes on my Bike Friday - they're no longer produced but you can occasionally find them on eBay), that'd be worth an extra mph or two.


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