# Hill question ???



## kimz (18 Feb 2010)

Right i have no idea on the gradience of this hill but i am struggling to get up i have to stop at least once use to be twice ! 

now its not my legs that give in but my breathing i cycle 12 mile round trip to check my horses most days and ive been doing this for a year now but this hill still beats me






so is there anything i can do to help my breathing strengthen my lungs or something





i dont have any fancy bike just a bog standard one a ridgeback mountain bike 601 gs i think its 15 gears and i go right down on my gears to help with the hill 

any ideas


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## Garz (18 Feb 2010)

Some of the battle is mental and not solely physical. Is your problem slowing down so you have to stop or just getting short of breath?

If your on an MTB then I would say gearing isn't the issue, however to improve on your fitness in general just start riding more and upping the mileage to begin with and see if the hill starts becoming easier.


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## shippers (18 Feb 2010)

Are you out of lungs or out of legs? 
Garz is right about the mental side of things. Decide you're going to get up there, and you'll never struggle again!


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## kimz (18 Feb 2010)

no not mental and the problem is the short of breath i use to walk up after i stopped now i breath deeply and slowly till my breathing is back to normal then carry on


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## Garz (18 Feb 2010)

Keep at it then and as I said earlier get more active by either riding more or jogging etc. As your fitness improves you shall overcome the hill in no time at all.


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## Tynan (18 Feb 2010)

how oldish are you and what physical condition?

are the tyres pumped up, is the bike in good nick, is the saddle at about the right height?

how long is the hill?


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## on the road (19 Feb 2010)

You're making it harder by stopping; you should try to keep going no matter how slow you end up going. When you stop, you have to start all over again and it feels much harder, so the best option is to try to keep some momentum going and you'll eventually make it up without stopping.


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## longers (19 Feb 2010)

I do hills by trying to get a bit further up them each time before stopping, changing gear later or something that I can put my finger on as being an improvement next time.

Tynan makes a good point about bike set up. You'll get good advice here if you ask.


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## Paulus (19 Feb 2010)

Are you in a low enough gear? You should be able to twiddle your way to the top without getting out of breath.


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## Downward (19 Feb 2010)

Pace it - Slow all the way. It'll come in time . How long have you been battling it ?


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## BrumJim (19 Feb 2010)

+1

Don't be like me - instead approach the hill steadily. Your momentum won't get you very far up the hill at all, so no point in getting up speed before the slope cuts in.


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## Andy in Sig (19 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> no not mental and the problem is the short of breath i use to walk up after i stopped *now i breath deeply and slowly till my breathing is back to normal then carry on*



That's the best tactic. All you have to do is note the last place you stopped for a breather and be determined that the next time it will be five bike lengths further on even if it kills you.


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## 2Loose (19 Feb 2010)

Slow and steady in an easy gear, rather than try and rush up it. 
Plod away and you can get up anything, rush and you will exhaust yourself before reaching the top. 

I find that NOT looking at the top makes me pace myself better, I normally stare at the road infront of my wheel instead.


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## kimz (19 Feb 2010)

wow lots of advice  ok try to answer some more questions my bike is a ridgeback its in goodish nick i cant afford another one yet so i'm stuck with it although its a nice bike to ride i had a jupiter trailblazer last year and it woould not get me any where as near to the top as this one !

ok yes i do go up slowely i dont get up pace to try to get up and i change my gears right down 

and someone said dont stop ! i have no option but its not hard once ive taken a few long deep breaths i can carry on to the top which im proud that i can do instead of walking up it thats given in and dont do that no more  no idea how lond it carries on for maybe 1/4 or half a mile not sure ! 

i bike it on a budget dont have heart monitors or mileage counter etc although would like one to see how far i do cycle in a day in total i dont drive so ride it every where apart from the 12 miles round trip i am a home carer and my average biking from person to person is prob about half a mile in between each other so no idea if this helps my fitness levels or not 

oh and im 44 and in not bad shape IMO 

i think ive answered all Q's just thought if i can improve my lung strenth somehow i might improve better as said my legs can keep going


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## gazmercer (19 Feb 2010)

I have the same problem kimz, problem is I am a smoker which obviously doesn't do me any favours


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## kimz (19 Feb 2010)

ah yes give them fags up they not good for you but im sure you know that with out me 

i dont smoke thank goodness ! although i do drink twice a week 

oh yes i for got one q ive been battling this for about a year but only 6 months on this bike which on a good day i have managed to get 3/4 of the way up but thats on a really good day and was so anoyed i had to stop cos was nearly there


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## Barbelier (19 Feb 2010)

I feel your pain!

There is a very steep longish hill in the village where I live and I always come to it at the end of a ride. Been training for a LEJOG for a couple of months and so far it beats me everytime. I don't run out of legs or breath because I take it slow and steady, just run out of gears, standing up on the pedals and the bike has ground to a halt! However, like the advice several have given I aim each time to get a bit further and so far its working and I'm 75% of the way up it! I'll beat the sod some day soon.

Another nasty hill I hadn't been able to beat comes immediately after I turn back onto the road after a slow bumpy track, allowing no chance to pick up any momentum. Last time I went up it there was a rather attractive young lady parked watching me and so I just had to make it!! Well chuffed, but collapsed in a pathetic heap as soon as she was out of sight.


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## accountantpete (19 Feb 2010)

Not a scientific person but am a smoker so get the same problem - 

Possible solutions

1) push a harder gear at a slower turn of the pedals.

2)try just using one leg to push down at a time (for say 10 turns) and then use the other. This gives one leg a chance to recover and helps reduce the oxygen needed.



Long term -the solution is to build up the muscles and lung capacity by riding hard up lesser hills and getting a tasty lightweight road bike with skinny wheels!


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## Rob3rt (19 Feb 2010)

Eat right before you go out, and work on your cardio fitness?

I hear that you can tell your at cardio work rate(without resorting to HRM etc) when you can still speak short sentences but not talk and talk and talk. But not to point you can only get one or 2 words out without gasping. Run and cycle in this zone for a few hours a week and you will get better.


And eatting right before and after your ride will help out.


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## kimz (19 Feb 2010)

glad i'm not the only one having hill probs 

ok never thought of the one leg at a time thing might have a go ,
food is my biggest problem as i leave the house for work in the morning at 7 i cant eat first thing so have to wait till about 11am when i get in then maybe have a bowl of cereal and a cup of tea before dashing to check on horses ..... the hill is on my way home so it could be that there is not enough fuel in the tank  

i get home about 2 and a half hours later and might have a baked potato before going back to work at 4.30/5pm home at 8pm then as long as im not too tired will have a quick micro meal veggie meal maybe quorn cottage pie or something sometimes im so tired i have another bowl of cereal and yes i know this is not good for me and my food intake has to change i get weeks i eat really well and then i get fed up and pick at things but.....food is another story


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## Kestevan (19 Feb 2010)

Mark the point where you have to stop - mentally, rather than with chalk 

Tomorrow, make sure you dont stop till you pass the mark, even if it's only by a bike length. Don't worry about getting all the way up, just focus on passing the mark.

Repeat every day, before long you'll be at the top of the hill. I can guarantee that once you have done it once, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about, and sail up easier and easier.

Then go find a steeper/longer hill and start all over again


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## Rob3rt (19 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> glad i'm not the only one having hill probs
> 
> ok never thought of the one leg at a time thing might have a go ,
> food is my biggest problem as i leave the house for work in the morning at 7 i cant eat first thing so have to wait till about 11am when i get in then maybe have a bowl of cereal and a cup of tea before dashing to check on horses ..... the hill is on my way home so it could be that there is not enough fuel in the tank
> ...



Porrige and a bannana!  Nutella on toast is a good one too, for me anyway


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## kimz (19 Feb 2010)

Then go find a steeper/longer hill and start all over again  Noooooooooooooooooooooo

yes love porridge and banana's making me hungry now


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## BrumJim (19 Feb 2010)

Watch the big climbs on the Tour de France to get hill-climbing trips.

There is a hill near me where I have chalked my name on the tarmac, along with a Union Flag and "Allez" in increasingly large letters as you go up the hill. Then I get a car with cycles on the top to drive just behind me, as the driver yells obscenities at me (quite easy to find in this locality). Next I pay a group of people to stand in front and yell as I head towards them. Also give them a picnic to enjoy whilst they are waiting for me. At the top put a white line and the name of a company that you might like to buy something off. This will mark the finish of the climb.

Hope that helps.


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## kimz (19 Feb 2010)

BrumJim said:


> Watch the big climbs on the Tour de France to get hill-climbing trips.
> 
> There is a hill near me where I have chalked my name on the tarmac, along with a Union Flag and "Allez" in increasingly large letters as you go up the hill. Then I get a car with cycles on the top to drive just behind me, as the driver yells obscenities at me (quite easy to find in this locality). Next I pay a group of people to stand in front and yell as I head towards them. Also give them a picnic to enjoy whilst they are waiting for me. At the top put a white line and the name of a company that you might like to buy something off. This will mark the finish of the climb.
> 
> Hope that helps.



Love it


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## on the road (20 Feb 2010)

Just to be clear, when I say keep some kind of momentum going I mean keep the pedals turning even if it's extremely slow.


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## Rip Van (20 Feb 2010)

It's unlikely that you'll get further every time you try it. Go for doing more than you're used to on some days and less on others, for a few weeks, then, after an easy day or two, really give it some sh*t and see how far you get.
Look at speed/ endurance training manuals and adapt the advice to your situation. Performance wise, expect something like two steps forward, one step back. Really hard effort balanced with enough easy training, rest and decent sleep should help you succeed.
Take all the advice you've received in this forum and use the bits that suit you.


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## Downward (20 Feb 2010)

This time of the year it will be a struggle with the cold. Come March/April when it's warmer I reckon by then you'll be getting up in 1 go. The cold does take it out of you.


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## Bill Gates (20 Feb 2010)

You don't mention what sort of pedals or shoes you have. Are they platform pedals without toe clips? If so then then it might be worth investing in toe clips to secure your feet or better clipless pedals and cycling shoes with cleats that secure the feet on the pedals.

With your feet securely attached to the pedals you can start to apply some climbing techniques that will help you. Someone mentioned pushing hard with just one leg x 10 and then the other. I've not heard of that one before and I wouldn't recommend it to be honest although each to their own.

Good climbers get into a rhythmn. Choose a gear you can get on top of' i.e. relatively fast cadence more than 60 rpm. You lose energy fighting the bike in too big a gear; it is more efficient to keep the body relatively still. Count in your head 1-2-3. On the count of 1 push down hard on one leg and then counts 2 & 3 focus on applying a circular force on the pedals so that as one leg is pushing down the other is clawing up as though you are scraping something off the bottom of your shoe. 

The next count of 1 will be the alternative leg pushing down hard. Fix your gaze about 15-20 feet ahead and put your bum twoards the back of the saddle and keep your arms on the tops of the bars towards the centre, either side of the stem. Your body is then postioned in a such a way so that your legs have something to push against. Every now and again get out of the saddle. This will use different muscle groups and give some relief to the other muscles.

You've now got into a steady rhythmn and before you know it you're at the top.


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## Chrisc (20 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> i bike it on a budget dont have heart monitors or mileage counter etc although would like one to see how far i do cycle in a day in total i dont drive so ride it every where apart from the 12 miles round trip i am a home carer and my average biking from person to person is prob about half a mile in between each other so no idea if this helps my fitness levels or not



I use this site to check distances. Just click on a start point then add stops along your route to see the total distance. If you click elevation data it'll also tell you how much climbing and descending you did and how steep the gradient is.

http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php


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## steve52 (20 Feb 2010)

*canal legs*

you may be like me and born with canal legs!! they will go down hill fine and are happy on anything flat, but as soon as they see anything remotely uphill they stop working properly , they demand so much oxygen that my lungs cant keep up, somehow my chest size shrinks and saliva turns to sticky string to ad to the breathing difficultys,i have delt with this by looking for hills, to ride up not because it helps but in the seemingly vain hope that i can improve! ( ps pant i pant think pant its pant working cough pant)


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## GrasB (20 Feb 2010)

Bill Gates said:


> You don't mention what sort of pedals or shoes you have. Are they platform pedals without toe clips? If so then then it might be worth investing in toe clips to secure your feet or better clipless pedals and cycling shoes with cleats that secure the feet on the pedals.
> 
> With your feet securely attached to the pedals you can start to apply some climbing techniques that will help you. Someone mentioned pushing hard with just one leg x 10 and then the other. I've not heard of that one before and I wouldn't recommend it to be honest although each to their own.
> 
> ...



+1 to this, the rhythm is key. If you zen into the rhythm you actually don't want to stop as it actually takes effort to stop. I mean I've completely miss-judged the climb gradient & been doing 10ppm up a >20% gradient not wanted to stop or change gear because it'd be more effort than keeping in the rhythm.

I'll try to judge it so the gear is about right for the main climb gradient but I'll need to get out of the saddle to keep things going on the steepest parts. I've found that I tend to climb low on the drops, just before the bar flattens out for the return. This allows me to seamlessly move between in the saddle, out the saddle & out the saddle + 'rolling' the bike.


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## kimz (20 Feb 2010)

wow its all getting so technical now 

ive got normal bog standard pedals no clips also if im riding to the field normally got wellies or trainers on  can foot wear realy make a difference ? i can understand the clips making a difference but my trainers ? my feet dont slip 

steve52 i think we have the same type legs 

i will take this all in and adapt to my liking some really good advice


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## marinyork (20 Feb 2010)

You don't have to have clips if you don't want them. I did thousands of miles before I got them. This place is a bit biased towards the confusingly called clipless pedals. Climbing hills is all about gearing, rhythm and guesswork though.


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## Riverman (20 Feb 2010)

I love that feeling when you're half way climbing up a hill and you feel comfortable shifting into a higher gear.

It doesn't happen to me that often but when it does it feels really satisfying.


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## lukesdad (20 Feb 2010)

Less mass= better climber

Good technique= better climber

Positive mindset = better climber

Everything else is practice.


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## Bill Gates (20 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> wow its all getting so technical now
> 
> ive got normal bog standard pedals no clips also if im riding to the field normally got wellies or trainers on  can foot wear realy make a difference ? i can understand the clips making a difference but my trainers ? my feet dont slip
> 
> ...



Basically if you are riding a bike then your legs are transmitting your power on to the pedals which generates forward motion.

The power transmission is not 100% efficient though. Some of your energy will be wasted through the bike and it's components. Generally the stiffer the component ( including the frame) the better as this reduces energy loss. That is why you should change the chain regularly as the links stretch making it elastic.

Cycling shoes are stiff soled and fasten tight over the top of the foot, and if fastened to the pedal will be much more effiicent than wellies or trainers which are soft and pliable. In other words a lot more efficient and therefore easier to ride.


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

ok i decided after doing lunches for my clients i would take the long route home and i maped it when i got home now it was 5.9 miles i did this in 30 mins is this slow ???

also i new this route had a hill and was very pleased i got up it i can remember long time ago i had to walk up it ( not been this way in a long time ) its not as long as the other one im trying to conquer but im still pleased just wondered if my time was slow ? mind you im not trying to race or anything but want to know what kinda speed im looking at ,

on a bad note ive been bad today as ive not eaten so my energy is probably low i did buy a drink earlier then for got to take it 

so now ive caught my breath back and had a drink im gonna have some lunch


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

anyone any good at working out hills ive just managed to get the elevation on the hill that im having trouble with ! 
cant seem to upload it so will just put it on here and someone might know if this is a little hill or not 

its a total of .8 miles long this road 

total ascent - 114ft 
total decent - 1ft
start elevation - 15ft
end elevation - 128ft
min elev - 15ft
max elev - 129ft 


any ideas ?????? is this a little hill to most off you


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## marinyork (21 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> ok i decided after doing lunches for my clients i would take the long route home and i maped it when i got home now it was 5.9 miles i did this in 30 mins is this slow ???



Nope, sounds perfectly all right on a MTB. It's the sort of averages I get on my hybrid. That's fine honestly don't read too many of these threads of people doing 15, 16, 19mph in beginners.

As for the hill, doesn't really matter, it's you that has to deal with it.


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

marinyork said:


> Nope, sounds perfectly all right on a MTB. It's the sort of averages I get on my hybrid. That's fine honestly don't read too many of these threads of people doing 15, 16, 19mph in beginners.
> 
> As for the hill, doesn't really matter, it's you that has to deal with it.




no im not a speed demon so wont be doing things like 19mph anyway 

im just trying to get an idea of what i need to do to be able to do this 118 what kind of speed would be average etc im not looking at trying to be first second or whatever but just to finnish ok 

oh and i must admit i nearly messed the hill i did today by misjudging what gear i should of been in and had to change 3/4 of the way up lost rythem and nearly did not make it


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## GrasB (21 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> anyone any good at working out hills ive just managed to get the elevation on the hill that im having trouble with !
> cant seem to upload it so will just put it on here and someone might know if this is a little hill or not
> 
> its a total of .8 miles long this road
> ...


While there are certainly more challenging climbs out there I'd not call that climb inconsequential by any stretch of the imagination.

Also forget about your average speed, but around 12mph isn't bad, the will come with time if you put effort into it. For now just enjoy you riding.


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

thanks grasb thats kinda what i wanted to know , dont want people laughing at me saying call that a hill !!!! if you know what i mean


and 12mph is not too bad considering ive very little brakes at the moment and dont likke going to fast just in case some idgit cuts me actually they often do ! normally getting in front of me then doing a sharp left turn in front of me  why oh why do they do this so far ive managed to avoid hitting cars only cos im carefull approaching juntions as i know what idiots there are around


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## marinyork (21 Feb 2010)

kimz said:


> no im not a speed demon so wont be doing things like 19mph anyway
> 
> im just trying to get an idea of what i need to do to be able to do this 118 what kind of speed would be average etc im not looking at trying to be first second or whatever but just to finnish ok



You'd do it at about 12mph my guess is. The problem is scaling it so you can get 11-12mph on the full 118 miles. You don't want to be doing that for the first 60 miles and then trundling along at 8mph for the last half. Hence as I was saying try and do some longer rides, but you have the right attitude and seem to be enjoying it.


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



guess what i done ???


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## BrumJim (21 Feb 2010)

Dropped the kids off at the swimming pool?


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## kimz (21 Feb 2010)

nope  guess again  come on someone must wanna know what i did today ???


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## aJohnson (22 Feb 2010)

Conquered the hill? Nah that's too obvious.


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## marinyork (22 Feb 2010)

You went back for more and did the hill three times you like it so much .


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## gazmercer (22 Feb 2010)

You started looking for a steeper, longer hill ???


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## jimboalee (22 Feb 2010)

You're hill is average 2.7%.

Is it a continual slope, or a series of steps?

For 2.7%, you might be required to give an extra 50% power for a 30% speed reduction.


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## kimz (22 Feb 2010)

yes its obvious i did it 

can't believe it though as yesterday as i approached the start of the incline i thought i was gonna have to get of there and then as it was the end of a long day and i felt so depleted  had only had alpen for lunch 

but i changed my gears low early on and just thought i will keep going as far as i can before i new it i was passsing the lane on the side of the road and i suddenly thought im nearly there and thought not giving up now !!!

and made it woop woop !!! i did manage to get my self to breath better going up normally i can only bring my breathing down a bit is once ive stopped so this was a big help , 

mind i think it was cos i wanted to at least watch the last half of wild at heart 

there is also a hill as i come out of the forest it not as long but a bit steep got all the way up too i did think i was going die tho 

i did it i did it !!!!


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## kimz (22 Feb 2010)

jimboalee said:


> You're hill is average 2.7%.
> 
> Is it a continual slope, or a series of steps?
> 
> For 2.7%, you might be required to give an extra 50% power for a 30% speed reduction.




its a slight slope from early on but then goes quite steepish


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## BrumJim (22 Feb 2010)

Cakes are on you today then, Kimz!!


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## Riverman (22 Feb 2010)

Speaking of hills, I always seem to huff and puff up one that is about a 22foot climb in 0.08 miles.

It's the little steep climbs that annoy me most, rather than the long ones.


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## kimz (22 Feb 2010)

yep cakes all round 

Riverman this one is steep about half way along you dont have any chance to get up any speed before hand 

oh riverman did ask on another thread have you got up the hill in romsey ?? cos thats some hill


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## Riverman (22 Feb 2010)

> oh riverman did ask on another thread have you got up the hill in romsey ?? cos thats some hill



I find cycling to Romsey quite fun because the way back is steeper than the way there. However, what scares me most is the ride to Romsey from Southampton is nothing compared to the one to Stockbridge.

I really want to try and cycle to Swindon but If I'm finding the cycle to Romsey, testing at times there's no way I'm going to be able to handle the steep climb toward Tidworth. It's about 21 miles and total ascent is about 1200 feet. However there is about a 900feet descent.


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## kimz (22 Feb 2010)

jeeeze thats some climb dont think i could get up that one in romsey let alone something higher ekkk!!!


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## Riverman (22 Feb 2010)

It's worth a try Kimz, if you can make it to Pewsley there's a campsite there that only costs £5 a night this time of year. It has a pub next door.


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## Riverman (22 Feb 2010)

By the better ride to Swindon would be to start in Salisbury and ride up the sustrans track - national cycling network instead of the road.


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## kimz (22 Feb 2010)

Riverman said:


> It's worth a try Kimz, if you can make it to Pewsley there's a campsite there that only costs £5 a night this time of year. It has a pub next door.




great i will try to work on this hill a bit more as i might spend another 6 months trying to get up it again  so once i know this is not a one off i might just do that


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