# Dahon Qix vs Brompton



## e-rider (3 Jan 2017)

I have been looking at a Brompton for some time and I have no doubt that they're are great folding bikes. However, the price tag is just so high I'm struggling to get the pennies up together for when I start work later this month.
I have seen the Dahon Qix that gets great reviews for about half the price of a Brompton (under £600), and the price difference is making me think this could be a better option for me.
As I've never owned a folder, what are the major downsides of the Dahon vs the Brompton?


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## chriscross1966 (3 Jan 2017)

The Brompton will almost certainly last longer. Dahon have a nasty habit of deleting spare parts for machines out of production and their lineup changes a lot... Bromptons undergo incremental refinements that are nearly all retrofittable to earlier models. Look at secondhand Bromptons, as for 500 you can certainly get a useable machine, most of the maintenance bits aren't too expensive. Also if you are going to be doing a commute involving public transport then the Brompton is head and shoulders above pretty much anything, the fold is very compact adn when folded it stays folded and is pretty easy to pick up in one hand with the bag in the other. We have other bikes getting on the bus that I catch, along with several other Bromptons, and I'm pretty sure that most Brompton owners practice the special look combining pity with an air of superiority whenever we get to watch someone getting a non-Brompton aboard


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## mjr (3 Jan 2017)

Most other folders stay folded and many aren't difficult to lift, but it's true that Bromptons fold smaller than most and have a more stable model range and spares.

I've got a Dahon and so have friends. A relative and some friends have Bromptons. Some still have Raleigh folders. All good in their own ways.


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## Cycleops (4 Jan 2017)

I'm also looking to get a folder, but not for commuting. I favour the Qix over the Brompton as it costs about half of the Brompton, folds quite small, has 20" wheels and weighs about the same. I'd say unless you need the smaller fold go for the Qix.

I understand the appeal of the Brompton but feel they just want too much for it. Obviously part of this is its made in the UK so costs are higher, plus their marketing costs must be steep. Also some of the fittings are just cheap and shouldn't have a place on a premium product. There's also a bit of Brompton snobbery too as evidenced by Chriscross, looking down on cheaper machines, but don't mind that.

Just weigh up the pros and cons and try to evaluate your needs and relate them to the bikes.


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## chriscross1966 (4 Jan 2017)

If you aren't looking for a commuter then I would agree that a Brompton is rather expensive for what you get.... and I say that as someone who has spent 2.5K on custom bits for his 2012 H3R :-).... I guess the major component of that expense is having a frame that is jig-brazed, by hand, in a factory in London, plus a lot of the bits that seem like normal components are specially made for Brompton... the pedals and crank, the brakes and levers, the hubs are odd (slimmer than normal) widths.... even the bottom bracket is slightly different to a standard one (as I'm finding out in my quest to fit a Campagnolo racing crank and BB to mine)


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## TheDoctor (4 Jan 2017)

Check the value of a 5 year old Brompton.
Then check the value of a 5 year old Dahon.
The Brommie will be near its new price. The Dahon, well, you could weigh it in for scrap...


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## Cycleops (4 Jan 2017)

Not quite, but here's a four hundred quid 2015 model:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brompton-H3...-Excellent-Condition-/381906612753?nav=SEARCH


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## Kell (4 Jan 2017)

If that goes for less than £550, I'll be staggered.


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## Kell (4 Jan 2017)

Here's my two penneth...

I've owned two Dahons and had no end of problems with them. Both were 26" wheeled Matrix models with alu frames.

The first was a 2009 'lockjaw' model. From memory, this was certainly up there with the cheapest of the Bromptons price wise at about £800 (on the ride to work scheme). However, I had to spend a fair bit on it to keep it going - including having the wheels trued on an almost monthly basis. After having the front and rear done about 6 or 7 times each (at £10 a time), I eventually upgraded the wheels to some Mavic CrossMax and they ran true throughout the ownership of the bike - about 4 years. But that added to the ownerships cost of the bike by a total of about £300 - so we're now at £1100.

Then the frame developed a small crack just about the time that Dahon were getting into trouble. Evans were useless at helping me out as they no longer stocked them and at that time, no one was importing them. I had a 5-year frame warranty that wasn't worth the paper it was written on. My only option at that time was to pay for the bike to be transported back to Dahon factory in China and hope that there'd still be a company to honour the claim. On the information I was given, it estimated that it would take them around 3 months to even look at the bike and there were no guarantees they'd ever do anything about it. There was talk of another importer possibly offering the warranty I needed. The advice I was given was to wait out that deal and hope for the best.

However, as cycling saves me around £250 a month in parking and tube fares, I didn't want to be without a bike for any length of time as it would end up being cheaper to just buy a new one.

So I ended up buying another Dahon Matrix from a work colleague. this time a 2008 model Matrix. Knowing the history of the bike i knew that it had been ridden less than 50 miles in the intervening years.

I rode that for a year and then the frame actually snapped on that.

That was so bad that I junked it. And then went back to my original Dahon as it was cracked rather than snapped and rode it for about a year until that too completely failed.

In the end, I threw away both bikes, salvaging my upgraded wheels and little else.

It was then that I decided to take another look at Bromptons. And ended up buying an H6L for £1080 on the ride to work scheme. So far, I've had one wheel wear through and split - which I didn't expect, (but seems to be down to cycling through horrible London sludge and not cleaning it often enough, but otherwise it's just been consumables - new chain, sprockets and chain ring at £50.

It's just as fast, is just as comfortable, and folds up far smaller which makes more sense for me.

So, for me, I wouldn't recommend a Dahon to anyone I'm afraid.


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## mjr (4 Jan 2017)

TheDoctor said:


> Check the value of a 5 year old Brompton.
> Then check the value of a 5 year old Dahon.
> The Brommie will be near its new price. The Dahon, well, you could weigh it in for scrap...


Yes, could be, but I suspect that's only true if you've trashed the Dahon and kept that Brommie fed with a steady stream of (often custom) parts and not dinged the paint (it'll need to be 8/10 to get a good price AFAICT). Otherwise, yes, the old Brompton will probably still sell for more than some new Dahons, but you'll have paid a lot more for it at the outset.

Anyway, who gets rid of a bike after 5 years? I think even my second-newest bike (probably the second-hand Dahon) is that old! 

If I was riding it more, I may tend to a Brompton because of the more stable model range and spares availability, but I doubt having more money tied up in it is worth it for occasional use.


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## srw (4 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> it'll need to be 8/10 to get a good price AFAICT



Not really true. I sold a Brompton, after over 10 years of hard use and weak maintenance that was a 5/10 at best, and got about 70% of the original purchase price.


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## e-rider (4 Jan 2017)

the Dahon is £500 less than the Brompton - if I was loaded I'd probably go for the Brompton, but I'm not. The Qix gets the best reviews I've seen for a Dahon so I'm most likely going for it - let's just hope the frame doesn't snap! I tend to look after my bikes well so I think it'll be okay - some people seem to destroy bikes within months; not sure how they manage that as I've got bikes that are well used and 20 years old that still look like new.
I could always upgrade to a Brompton in a few years time, if I seem to be using the folder a decent amount - there is a chance it will be collecting dust after a few months!


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## mjr (4 Jan 2017)

srw said:


> Not really true. I sold a Brompton, after over 10 years of hard use and weak maintenance that was a 5/10 at best, and got about 70% of the original purchase price.


I think it's really true because "about 70%" isn't "near its new price". On £1100 of Brompton, that would be a difference of £330, which is more than the purchase price of some new Raleigh or B'Twin folders and within an average London dinner out of a new rebadged Dahon.


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## Kell (4 Jan 2017)

Well - in 40 years of cycling, the only two frames i've ever snapped were both by Dahon...

Like many things in life, it depends on multiple factors, but the whole life cost of a Brompton is likely to be less than the Dahon.

Even in the example above, you buy a Brompton and lose £330 on it over 10 years. But you've had 10 years of riding a better bike than a Raleigh. Assuming that the Raleigh cost £330 and is still going after 10 years, how much do you think it would be worth? £30 tops? Or £3 a year extra to ride a Brompton.

And in my case seeing as how my Dagon cost me more than my Brompton anyway and was scrapped I lost 100% of its value. So that bike cost me £1100 to own. 

Sekonda used to have a strapline in the U.K. that sums it up. 

Less expensive than cheaper watches.


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## Kell (4 Jan 2017)

Also, there was a thread a while ago in which a really old, really knackered Brompton was on Ebay and fetched a ridiculous price seeing as how virtually everything looked like it would have to be replaced.

at £50 as a starting bid, it might have been worth a punt for someone wanting a project, but at £331 as a final price, it was amazingly overpriced.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/just-out-of-curiosity.208617/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322290979757?rmvSB=true


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## Cycleops (4 Jan 2017)

Kell said:


> Well - in 40 years of cycling, the only two frames i've ever snapped were both by Dahon...
> 
> Like many things in life, it depends on multiple factors, but the whole life cost of a Brompton is likely to be less than the Dahon.


But didn't you previously mention something about being over for the recommenced rider weight?


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## e-rider (4 Jan 2017)

I have noticed two more things today
1. There are plenty of people on the web that say the riding experience of 16" wheels is very poor compared to 20" wheels
2. Dahon sell more folding bikes than anyone else in teh world - this makes me think that 'Kell' saying all Dahon's frames snap is unlikely to be true


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## 12boy (4 Jan 2017)

If I were to buy a folding bike I would ride one first. I bought my Xootr Swift after reading volumes about them but I was already folder savvy from my Brompton and that helped. When I bought the Brompton I also rode a Bike Friday Companion and then the Brompton. Probably would have bought the Bike Friday except the Brompton felt so much better. I have no reason not to believe the Brompton will last for a long time, as it is over 3 years old and I have ridden thousands of miles on it. Gone through several sets of tires, brake pads and chains, nothing else has been an issue except I replaced the headset with a Chris King Gripnut after about a year. Wasn't cheap, but for a quality well made bike it was very inexpensive. I believe in buying durability and quality once and don't need any short life products which need to be replaced. Obviously you will do as you think best and best wishes on whatever you get, but at least ride a Brompton first. Ride the others too, and if you get a used one of whatever you will have a pretty good idea of what shape the used bike is in.


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## chriscross1966 (4 Jan 2017)

My first Brompton was a second hand M3L, used it for two years, replaced a couple of tyres and a set of brake blocks for each end, plus the saddle as I loathed the not standard one fitted... Paid about 300 for it, sold it for 420 five years ago... Bought an H3L on the C2W and I'd get pretty close to what I paid for it if I wasn't customising it instead of buying a new one. In that time two chains, three sets of brakes, a set of Marathon Plus and a new crank set... That is just maintenance bits on a bike that covers my commute..


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## Kell (4 Jan 2017)

Cycleops said:


> But didn't you previously mention something about being over for the recommenced rider weight?



That is true. But I only found that out by accident 'after' they snapped through research online. 

And as the weight limit is 95kg and I was at about 96-97 there shouldn't have been a problem. 

At no point during the buying process did anyone say to me 'you're too heavy'. 

And I didn't ever say that all Dahons snap. I only said that I''be owned two and had two snap.

You came on here asking for advice, and I gave you my opinion - I'm not qualified to give anyone else's - and my opinion is that I wouldn't recommend a Dahon to anyone. 

It does seem however that you'd already made your mind up before making the post.


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## windmiller (4 Jan 2017)

Did you buy the most uncomfortable of all bikes after hiring one - and discovered you also looked like a nobber while riding it, or was it the other way around?


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## TheDoctor (5 Jan 2017)

My M12R is comfortable enough to do a ten day tour on, and has needed a new chain, chainset and sprockets in the seven-odd years I've had it.
It's the only folder I'd even consider touring on.
If I look like a nobber, I doubt that's entirely down to the bike


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jan 2017)

[QUOTE 4625166, member: 45"]

And you'll look like a nobber riding one.[/QUOTE]

Don't tell these two...


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## chriscross1966 (5 Jan 2017)

[QUOTE 4625166, member: 45"]The Brompton is the most uncomfortable of all the folding bikes I've owned, hired or ridden.

And you'll look like a nobber riding one.[/QUOTE]

Hah... "uncomfortable"? you know NOTHING... try replacing the standard saddle with the lightest carbon fibre razor weight-weanie special you can find..... then we can talk about uncomfortable :-)... Seriously, I'm giving this thing one more week and if it doesn't get slightly less like you're sitting on the edge of a piece of steel whilst you pedal then, with some regret, I'll bolt back the near 200 gram weight penalty of the standard saddle...


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## e-rider (5 Jan 2017)

Kell said:


> That is true. But I only found that out by accident 'after' they snapped through research online.
> 
> And as the weight limit is 95kg and I was at about 96-97 there shouldn't have been a problem.
> 
> ...


you are right that I had pretty much made up my mind before posting, becasue my mind was made up for me by my wallet - however, if everyone rocked up and said, "don't buy a Dahon they are rubbish", then I would have considered the other options

In summary it seems to me that the build quality of the Brompton is excellent and they will last for years and hold their value well. They also fold up nice and small.
The Dahon on the other hand will lose value quickly, is likely to not last for years and folds up less small than a Brompton. On the plus side though for the Dahon, they are half the price of a Brompton and the 20" wheels provide a better ride. You might also look less silly riding a Dahon than a Brompton.


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## 12boy (5 Jan 2017)

chriscross1966 said:


> Hah... "uncomfortable"? you know NOTHING... try replacing the standard saddle with the lightest carbon fibre razor weight-weanie special you can find..... then we can talk about uncomfortable :-)... Seriously, I'm giving this thing one more week and if it doesn't get slightly less like you're sitting on the edge of a piece of steel whilst you pedal then, with some regret, I'll bolt back the near 200 gram weight penalty of the standard saddle...[/QUOTE
> We calls them saddles "ass hatchets". I like Velo Orange saddles a bit better than Brooks as they are a bit cheaper, have longer rails and a better tautening set up, but I don,t think pushing the extra weight is any big thing compared to comfort. As the bible says" be kind to your ass because it bears thee."


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## chriscross1966 (5 Jan 2017)

User said:


> Stick a Brooks on it instead of the stock saddle. Absolute bliss! Bouddica came complete with a well broken in Brooks and it has been comfy from the off.



yes, but Henrietta is a weird combination of practicality and weight-weanie... and the standard saddle (let alone a Brooks) weighs tons next to this thing...


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jan 2017)

If you don't need the fold of a Brompton, you don't need a Dahon either.
My Old BSA shopper rides better than my Brompton and is more comfortable. It cost £40. It folds after a fashion. A Raleigh 20 is even better with waaay more kudos and retro-chic if you can find a good one around.
Get an elongated seatpost for £20 and swap the saddle for something of your choice.
Problem solved.
50 mile L2B, no problems.


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## mcgregor (5 Jan 2017)

yes that's the way to go. Here's my bad boy 20


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## Fab Foodie (5 Jan 2017)

mcgregor said:


> yes that's the way to go. Here's my bad boy 20


Beauty.....
Still on the look-out for one.


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## mcgregor (5 Jan 2017)

yes, I was lucky didn't have to look far, inherited it from my mother,


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## Kell (7 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> You might also look less silly riding a Dahon than a Brompton.



I think it's all much of a muchness. I deliberately didn't choose a Brompton when I first got my Dahon because I thought all small wheeled bikes look stupid. Still do. I didn't want a Brompton as I thought they looked old-fashioned with the upright bars and plain colours. And when I hired a Brompton before buying, I had more comments of 'Nice bike mate' thrown at me in a month than in 20 years of commuting.

But having had other folders and test-ridden a fair few more, both cheaper and more expensive, there's nothing that does everything I want any better. I get that the buy in price of the Dahon is half as much as a Brompton, but you could get a little-used Brompton for about htat price.

Plus, if you're buying a 20" wheeled bike because you think it will look cooler than a 16" wheeled bike, then you're viewing it from entirely the wrong standpoint in my humble opinion.

Good luck with it. I hope yours is more reliable than mine were.


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## Kell (7 Jan 2017)

Kell said:


> If that goes for less than £550, I'll be staggered.



It's up to £511 with a day to go:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381906612753


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## e-rider (7 Jan 2017)

I'm not expecting to look cool on any - I don't even look cool on a normal sized bike! I have read more reviews that say a Brompton is less suitable for tall riders and suits riders of 5'9" and smaller - I'm 6'2" - the Dahon Qix says suitable for riders up to 6'4" but I guess I'll be pushing that limit somewhat too?


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## srw (7 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> I'm not expecting to look cool on any - I don't even look cool on a normal sized bike! I have read more reviews that say a Brompton is less suitable for tall riders and suits riders of 5'9" and smaller - I'm 6'2" - the Dahon Qix says suitable for riders up to 6'4" but I guess I'll be pushing that limit somewhat too?


Those reviews are lying. I'm 6', and with an extended seatpost am perfectly comfortable on a Brompton. With a telescopic seatpost the Brompton is suitable for even taller riders.

One of the many weaknesses of Dahon bikes is the adjustable handlebars they use. Unless you have the various screws and levers done up as tight as they will go - more than hand-tight - the handlebars are prone to self-adjust at inopportune moments.


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## reppans (7 Jan 2017)

You just need the extended seat post if you are tall.

I own a '05? Dahon Speed P8 and '16 Brompton M6R. Originally chose the Dahon over the B due to price back then, and still hemmed and hawed over the B's price last year. But now I'm a convert - if I could only have one bicycle (not just folder), it would be the Brompton. So much versatility and neat possibilities with a B that I never considered until actually owning one, and I've owned folders since '91. 

For me they both ride well enough, but the Brompton tips the scale "just enough" on: 1) a small/quick/tight/fun fold; 2) easy to carry/roll while folded (rack w/X-Roller); and 3) well integrated/quick-release luggage.... so that I'll take the Brompton almost anywhere, whereas the Dahon tips the scale "just enough" the other way, where I really only use it from the boot of car, and to lock up outside instead of taking it inside with me (this can an advantage or disadvantage). These unique advantages together have been the only thing to rekindled my interests in bicycle touring, which I quit decades ago. For me, the difference is like traveling with a non-wheeled full-sized suitcase + briefcase vs a wheeled carry-on which you can strap your breifcase to - where are you willing to go, and what are willing to do, with either rig?

All that said, in hindsight, I knew I was a folding bike convert back in the 90's so I should have coughed up for the B in '05 - I missed a decade of good utility, and ended up with one anyway. You, however, are different in that you don't know if folders are for you - and I agree that certainly makes it tougher to buy into the top the market. But good luck with your decision.


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## Fab Foodie (7 Jan 2017)

Kell said:


> .... because I thought all small wheeled bikes look stupid. Still do. .


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## Fab Foodie (7 Jan 2017)

reppans said:


> You just need the extended seat post if you are tall.
> 
> I own a '05? Dahon Speed P8 and '16 Brompton M6R. Originally chose the Dahon over the B due to price back then, and still hemmed and hawed over the B's price last year. But now I'm a convert - if I could only have one bicycle (not just folder), it would be the Brompton. So much versatility and neat possibilities with a B that I never considered until actually owning one, and I've owned folders since '91.
> 
> ...


I have 9 assorted fab bikes including my custom Rourke, but if the garage were on fire, the Brompton would be the first I'd rescue. In terms of useability it far more exceeds the others. And for touring it's fabulous!


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## e-rider (7 Jan 2017)

after all the comments and all the research I'd probably go for the Brompton, but the fact that the Dahon is £500 less is still going to be a deciding factor, becaSUE i SIMPLY DON'T HAVE £1000+ - if I were to opt for the Brompton I'd need to wait another 12 months before purchasing

If I like the folding bike thing then perhaps I upgrade to a Brommie in a few years time


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## mjr (8 Jan 2017)

srw said:


> One of the many weaknesses of Dahon bikes is the adjustable handlebars they use. Unless you have the various screws and levers done up as tight as they will go - more than hand-tight - the handlebars are prone to self-adjust at inopportune moments.


Not found that, but mine has only one qr lever. I don't like them being custom bars because I've broken handlebars on other bikes, but I've not found any problem with them staying where I put them, even when I've hung bags from them.


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## reppans (8 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> Not found that, but mine has only one qr lever. I don't like them being custom bars because I've broken handlebars on other bikes, but I've not found any problem with them staying where I put them, even when I've hung bags from them.



Mine has 2 QR levers, and it does shift. Not dangerous since its movement is guided in a slotted housing, it's just annoying and the one thing that makes it feel cheap/loose.


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## StuartG (9 Jan 2017)

I was ridiculed when I bought my Brompton in 2006 (AFAIR £600). But its been to the Med, done imperial centuries, done Welsh mountains and wheeled it (folded) around my local co-op. No Dahon can do that. In eleven years I've only had one jobsworth stopping me taking it where I want. I've had two new tyres and a chain or two.

The only valid excuse (IMHO) for not choosing a Brommie is you don't have the readies. If you do then financially, technically and just plain fun the Brommie has it. Well the financial is a bit suspect as you only get most of your original investment back if you sell it. The reason the resale price is so high is that most Brommie owners would sell their souls first.

Yes you do look a prat to others but do Brommie riders care?


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## Kell (9 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> after all the comments and all the research I'd probably go for the Brompton, but the fact that the Dahon is £500 less is still going to be a deciding factor, becaSUE i SIMPLY DON'T HAVE £1000+ - if I were to opt for the Brompton I'd need to wait another 12 months before purchasing
> 
> If I like the folding bike thing then perhaps I upgrade to a Brommie in a few years time



It's a fair enough comment.


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## e-rider (10 Jan 2017)

I have made 2 important decisions today (just before pulling the trigger on a Dahon Qix)
1. I need to test ride a Brompton
2. If the Brompton really is that good, I should wait 6+ months and save the extra £500 - in the long run it will be worth it


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## mjr (11 Jan 2017)

StuartG said:


> I was ridiculed when I bought my Brompton in 2006 (AFAIR £600). But its been to the Med, done imperial centuries, done Welsh mountains and wheeled it (folded) around my local co-op. No Dahon can do that.


Go home - you're drunk!  My Dahon's been around a local co-op (it's still basically wheelchair tyres, after all) and the only reason it's not done the others is that I've not been to the Welsh mountains since getting it, I usually hire on holiday (less worry when travelling IMO) and the imperial centuries I've done have started near enough home that I've ridden my full-size bikes which have handlebars with more hand positions.



e-rider said:


> 1. I need to test ride a Brompton


www.BromptonBikeHire.com ?


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## e-rider (11 Jan 2017)

I tried 3 Bromptons today - interesting to relate my experience to everything I've read during my research
First off, apart from the S handlebars, the other 2 bikes were nice to ride. The S-bars were much too low for a tall chap. The M bars felt pretty good


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## StuartG (11 Jan 2017)

mjr said:


> Go home - you're drunk!  My Dahon's been around a local co-op (it's still basically wheelchair tyres, after all) and the only reason it's not done the others is that I've not been to the Welsh mountains since getting it, I usually hire on holiday (less worry when travelling IMO) and the imperial centuries I've done have started near enough home that I've ridden my full-size bikes which have handlebars with more hand positions.


Aha but you can use a Brommie as an excellent wheeled trolley with the shopping basket perfectly placed? Can you do that with a Dahon or do you pull that ungainly fold with one hand and a basket/trolley with the other. Hopefully you may be one of the very few with a third hand to pick the stuff off the shelf!

I feel your pain at having to do imperial centuries near home. Funnily enough I feel no pain doing a 1000km or more on a Brommie. Is it me, or is it the design? Its unbeatable as hand luggage which does saves on hiring. 

I have a rather nice proper bike too. But unlike you I don't always use it for the more challenging rides. I appreciate the choice. Why are you not choosing your Dahon?


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## mjr (11 Jan 2017)

StuartG said:


> Can you do that with a Dahon or do you pull that ungainly fold with one hand and a basket/trolley with the other. Hopefully you may be one of the very few with a third hand to pick the stuff off the shelf!


No, I leave the seatpost extended and use it to push the Dahon along. It stays put when I let go, so I can use the pushing hand to pick stuff off the shelf and put in the basket. Because a Dahon keeps the rubber side down even when folded, it's not wobbling about on tiny little rack-mounted wheels like some folding bikes I've seen.



StuartG said:


> I feel your pain at having to do imperial centuries near home.


Not a case of "having to" but it seemed to make sense to do the local ones first and I've yet to do Breckland or Peterborough loops from Lynn. So far: Norwich (once on hybrid, once on Dutchie), North Norfolk coast, Ely (aborted at 97 miles following a crash at 70) and Holland.



StuartG said:


> Funnily enough I feel no pain doing a 1000km or more on a Brommie. Is it me, or is it the design? Its unbeatable as hand luggage which does saves on hiring.


I feel no pain on the Dahon so far but I've never done that distance. I don't have a particular objection to hiring, rather than having to carry and store a bike all trip for a couple of days riding.



StuartG said:


> Why are you not choosing your Dahon?


The Dutchie is sooooooo comfortable, the Falcon's quite fun and fast, while the Dahon has enough custom parts that I'm less confident in my ability to fix it and complete the ride. That matters less when travelling for work (its usual task) because I can take it on buses or put it in a taxi - slower and less convenient than riding it, but a good fallback.



StuartG said:


> Aha but you can use a Brommie as an excellent wheeled trolley with the shopping basket perfectly placed?


From now on, I shall refer to Bromptons as shopping trollies!


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## e-rider (11 Jan 2017)

Well, to answer my own OP I have decided against the Dahon Qix - I will get a Brompton after test riding a few today but will have to wait to get the extra funds


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## mjr (12 Jan 2017)

User said:


> Well, he is from Norfolk......


No, I'm an immigrant here and you don't get a third hand, sixth finger or webbing when you start paying Council Tax.


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## Kell (12 Jan 2017)

e-rider said:


> I tried 3 Bromptons today - interesting to relate my experience to everything I've read during my research
> First off, apart from the S handlebars, the other 2 bikes were nice to ride. The S-bars were much too low for a tall chap. The M bars felt pretty good



Yeah I didn't find the S bars that comfortable. But I also found the M bars slightly too high. Not sure where the 5' 9" figure came from for Bromptons - maybe that refers to the S type only.

In the end I ordered an H type - even higher than the M type, and put low risers bars on it. What I've ended up with is something in between an S and an M in terms of bar height.


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## doginabag (12 Jan 2017)

I don't recall you saying before. Do yo have access to a cycle scheme through work? That would save you from having to wait and will cost you less in the long run too.


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## e-rider (12 Jan 2017)

Kell said:


> Yeah I didn't find the S bars that comfortable. But I also found the M bars slightly too high. Not sure where the 5' 9" figure came from for Bromptons - maybe that refers to the S type only.
> 
> In the end I ordered an H type - even higher than the M type, and put low risers bars on it. What I've ended up with is something in between an S and an M in terms of bar height.


but the H-bar stem has less curve than the M or S, thus bringing the bars closer - I'm fairly sure that the M-bars will not be too high for me as it's a commuting bike and I'll not be going as fast as possible. Although the H-bar felt high, it didn't feel excessively high on the short test ride, so although I think H is not for me, it confirms that the M-bar will be good - I already have a road bike with lower bars for weekend blasts

What I'm thinking about now is extended or tele seatpost - I don't like the look of the tele but the extended might not be quite long enough as I'm almost 6'2" - some people say yes, others say no. All the test bikes had the tele post so I couldn't try the extended


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## Kell (12 Jan 2017)

I think my comments about bar heights are particular to the older models - I believe they've reshaped the bars and stem heights for the latest models...

As for the seatpost - I've posted an aswer to that in the other thread.

But essentially, I bought the extended one as I didn't think I'd need the tele version - even though the bike I hired had the tele version.

What I've found in practice is that for my journeys the telescopic one would have proven more useful for reason other than just needing the additional height.


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## chriscross1966 (15 Jan 2017)

I'm having to ride a bike I don't like much while mine is having radical surgery at the LBS.... If nothing else it brings home to me how much weight I had shaved off Henrietta now that I'm on an M6R with a telescope saddle form the shop fleet... It feels like it weighs a ton (in actuality it's like to be around a kilo) more than my H3R.... but Henrietta has a carbon seatpost cut to exactly my preferred height, a carbon saddle, handlebars and Campagnolo carbon crankset... An H3R is a fair old lump normally, there's no way I'd want to add a telescopic saddle.


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## Blue Hills (15 Jan 2017)

I'd save for the Brompton - once bought no reason it shouldn't last a lifetime. I have a Dahon - and an expensive one at that - great fun when it works - but the most problematical bike I have ever had. Won't bore you with the details unless you insist OP, but let's just say that build quality and speccing of bits was questionable. And have you ever had a bike where the manufacturer couldn't even fit a quick release skewer without the lever breaking in your hand? I finally solved the problem of its wheel issue a while ago after getting some inside knowledge. The truth was shocking/pathetic.


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## e-rider (15 Jan 2017)

I've started to walk down the Brompton path - I need £1075 so please give generously


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## alex89 (13 Sep 2017)

have you actually tried a Dahon qix? Cause I own one, and I absolutely love it. It folds in 1 sec, it looks sturdy, it rolls smoothly once folded and it's damn fast. Riding it is a pleasure. I understand you wanted to try a B, trust me and find a way to try the qix as well before spending your money. If you still are on time. Cheers!


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## bonzobanana (16 Sep 2017)

alex89 said:


> have you actually tried a Dahon qix? Cause I own one, and I absolutely love it. It folds in 1 sec, it looks sturdy, it rolls smoothly once folded and it's damn fast. Riding it is a pleasure. I understand you wanted to try a B, trust me and find a way to try the qix as well before spending your money. If you still are on time. Cheers!



The Qix looks a nice bike but what really justifies the price over other 8 speed derailleur based folding bikes? Is it just the vertical folding?

To be honest if I'm spending that much money I'd really want hub gearing. A derailleur is not ideal when so close to the ground getting covered in dirt and mud and more likely to get damaged, hit kerbs etc and need more maintenance. Normal size derailleurs always look like a compromise on small bikes but at the Qix price you shouldn't really be dealing with such compromises.

Also what the hell is dalloy tubing?

http://dahon.com/bikes/qix-d8-2/

Just seems like marketing b**lsh*t combining the word Dahon with alloy in order to sound innovative. I totally understand people not going for the more expensive Brompton but don't understand so much why you would pay extra for the Dahon over many competing 8 speed folding bikes of a similar quality at much lower prices. Many of which have higher load capacities and better components or better value for the same components. 

Also the hinge on the frame. The standard design hinges horizontally because that gives the hinge the greatest surface area to weld to the tubing. It's the most logical design for strength. The vertical fold has the hinge on the thin section of the tube surely the weakest design. Just seems like a design most likely to fail and maybe innovation with a quality and safety sacrifice? Why hasn't anyone done this before well the answer to that seems obvious looking at the Qix. I can see on face value it may look safer having the hinge at the bottom to prevent the frame from collapsing if it becomes loose but beyond that for long term reliability and strength doesn't look so good in my opinion.


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## Blue Hills (16 Sep 2017)

Dahon are notorious those sorts of things bonzo.

Kind of related to the reasons i would now avoid them.


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## Kell (19 Sep 2017)

Did you ever get your Brompton?


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## alex89 (22 Sep 2017)

bonzobanana said:


> The Qix looks a nice bike but what really justifies the price over other 8 speed derailleur based folding bikes? Is it just the vertical folding?
> 
> To be honest if I'm spending that much money I'd really want hub gearing. A derailleur is not ideal when so close to the ground getting covered in dirt and mud and more likely to get damaged, hit kerbs etc and need more maintenance. Normal size derailleurs always look like a compromise on small bikes but at the Qix price you shouldn't really be dealing with such compromises.
> 
> ...


I don't know what Dalloy is and I don't care. I only know that I fold my bike in 1 sec and it rolls nice once folded. It's light, it's very fast and riding it is a pleasure. I bought it at 630€, a tern link D8 comes at the same price and its folding mechanism is not even close to be as handy as the qix's one. I am not the engineer who designed the bike and I can't say about how long the frame will last, but it looks well done and sturdy to me. I understand B is a status symbol and it's probably good to ride, but complaining about a 700€-bike labelling it as expensive once it comes with great quality good folding and 8 gears looks inconsistent to me, especially if the labelling comes from a B.'s owner.


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## Blue Hills (22 Sep 2017)

mm Alex - I wouldn't dismiss the Brompton as a status symbol.

It's a tough as a tank bit of good old fashioned engineering.

Mine has been used a lot for stashing under a Lidl/Aldi shopping trolley.

I care nowt for status - in fact I have been mocked by one or two folk for my Brommie.

By folk who know nowt about bikes.

Or care too much for status.


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## Kell (22 Sep 2017)

Yeah I must admit, I don't see a Brompton as a status symbol.

They may be more expensive than (most) Dahons, but they're far from the most expensive folders out there. Birdys and Airnimals to name two...

I was chatting to one of the guys on my train as he's just got rid of his Ori bike (due to problems with non-standard parts and availability) and gone to a Birdy. It looks great, has a derailleur and disc brakes (sorely lacking from Bromptons IMO). But it doesn't fold as well and had to propped up or leaned against something in the train. And when I checked out the price online it was over £2,000 - more than double what I paid for my Brompton.

It's very lazy for people to see Brompton owners as unoriginal or interested in status. I owned three other folding bikes before getting my Brompton because I didn't want the default choice. But I wasted about £2,000 in bikes which snapped and I ended up junking. Should have got a Brompton in the first place.

Oh - and both my Dahons rode really well.

Until they started falling apart.


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## Blue Hills (22 Sep 2017)

Yep my dahon (speed pro) is very wobbly without lots of care.

Ffs, ever had a bike where the lever on the quick release bent in your hand and broke?

The brommie will be 20 years old in a while - never been any trouble, needed very little maintenance. Has outrun savage dogs on sardinian dirt tracks. If i'd been on the dahon, fun as it is, i'd be mincemeat. It's paid for itself i'm sure with all its economy shopping trips.


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