# Structured Training in 2017



## Tin Pot (4 Jan 2017)

Hi all,

Following training plans can be a bit isolated (was for me last year anyway!) so I thought I'd start a thread we can all talk about the plans we're following, challenges and successes.

Ive just started the TrainerRoad Full Iron Distance Triathlon Base Plan, its week 1 and heavy going 

Post here what you're doing and any questions you have.

Cheers TP


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## Tin Pot (4 Jan 2017)

@CXRAndy
@Joffey
@Asa Post @MasterDabber


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## HLaB (4 Jan 2017)

Last winter I started a training regime with the main aim of the Mallorca 312, I've ticked that off the bucket list but I've continued with the programme with the aim of improving my TT's. Its been a mix of turbo (intervals)/roller/core exercises/ weights during the week a fast training ride on the Saturday and more social training/cafe ride on the Sunday. After 312 was complete, I've tended to do more relaxed Sunday social rides to break up that isolation and if its been too relaxed went out in the afternoon/evening to practice my tt bike handling or extended the Sunday ride to complete the Century a month challenge. There's been other adhoc rides too.
At the moment I'm sticking with the regime with the aim of the ToC Chrono.


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## Chappy (5 Jan 2017)

I am currently on Sweet spot base low volume 2 with trainer road. Due to work commitments and long hours the going isn't to bad, even with the workouts all being in the Sweet spot and Threshold range. How this will change when I move onto the Base and Specialty plans later on in the year we will see, I think it will be harder to get on the trainer when the weather turns nice again.


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## WelshJon (5 Jan 2017)

Not a specific program a such but my current weekly schedule consists of :

Tuesday - Turbo intervals 20 or 30 mins
Thursday - Club chaingang 20miles , 1 hour at threshold, few spikes above.
Sunday - Club ride 60 miles 

Probably the most I can fit in with current commitments and my main goal is to bridge the gap between team 1 fast group and team 2. 
Had a flat ride with team 1, 50 miles with 18mph avg speed and suffered with my turns on the front and would more than likely be dropped on a significant climb.


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## Tin Pot (5 Jan 2017)

Chappy said:


> I am currently on Sweet spot base low volume 2 with trainer road. Due to work commitments and long hours the going isn't to bad, even with the workouts all being in the Sweet spot and Threshold range. How this will change when I move onto the Base and Specialty plans later on in the year we will see, I think it will be harder to get on the trainer when the weather turns nice again.



So that's two turbo interval sessions per week?

Iirc it's an eight week plan - how far are you in?


I've got four TR sessions per week with he option of doing two outside, but I've balls up because I can't find my thermal tights and jersey!


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## Tin Pot (5 Jan 2017)

HLaB said:


> Last winter I started a training regime with the main aim of the Mallorca 312, I've ticked that off the bucket list but I've continued with the programme with the aim of improving my TT's. Its been a mix of turbo (intervals)/roller/core exercises/ weights during the week a fast training ride on the Saturday and more social training/cafe ride on the Sunday. After 312 was complete, I've tended to do more relaxed Sunday social rides to break up that isolation and if its been too relaxed went out in the afternoon/evening to practice my tt bike handling or extended the Sunday ride to complete the Century a month challenge. There's been other adhoc rides too.
> At the moment I'm sticking with the regime with the aim of the ToC Chrono.



Is that a regime of your own devising or a structured plan from somewhere/someone?

Did you get the results you hoped for at the 312?


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## HLaB (5 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Is that a regime of your own devising or a structured plan from somewhere/someone?
> 
> Did you get the results you hoped for at the 312?


Its a coaches plan, I joined him for the 312 and I'm still with him. 

My main aim with the 312 was to finish and tick it off the bucket list and I did that. Lol, I could have went faster but give that I'd come down with mild heat stroke (through up dinner, had a broken uncomfortable sleep, felt a little better but through up breakfast) I'm quite happy. Felt comfortable and improving, which wasn't hard, till about 160miles. Then I felt dead passed a farm couple and initially I pressed on then I suddenly thought they might have water and they did, they also had loads of oranges too. I don't know what was in those oranges but it done the trick, I found my self doing 20+mph for the last 15miles


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## Chappy (5 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> So that's two turbo interval sessions per week?
> 
> Iirc it's an eight week plan - how far are you in?
> 
> ...



I am on week 5 at the moment which consists of 3 interval rides and 1 recovery ride. Tues/Wed/Thurs/Sat


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## Tin Pot (5 Jan 2017)

Chappy said:


> I am on week 5 at the moment which consists of 3 interval rides and 1 recovery ride. Tues/Wed/Thurs/Sat



I've just done "Big Squaw" tonight. I'm definitely going outside for the next long one. I just don't know if I can work that hard on the road - the last hour was pretty hard.


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## Chappy (6 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> I've just done "Big Squaw" tonight. I'm definitely going outside for the next long one. I just don't know if I can work that hard on the road - the last hour was pretty hard.



I no what you mean it can be hard to find the right stretch of road that mimics the workout. 

For me its the boredom factor I can just about maintain the effort for an hour on the trainer anything longer like the Saturday rides which are an 1 1/2 then i really struggle.


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## Asa Post (6 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> @CXRAndy
> @Joffey
> @Asa Post @MasterDabber


Structured? 


Me? 

I have never raced. I don't do Sportives or similar. I don't belong to a club. I'm a member of the Bkool group on here, but I don't do any of the communal rides.

The only competition I'm interested in is beating myself. I ride a bike to stay fit and have fun. I like to see improvements in my speed or endurance (or, I did when I was younger - these days I try to limit the losses) but have no long-term goals to aim for. There is no need for me to do intervals, but sometimes I do them to introduce a bit of variety, and see how well I cope.

I have tried training plans in the past, to build up my general stamina and to encourage me to ride regularly. I borrowed books from the library and copied the plans onto spreadsheets:

*Training Plans for Cyclists - Gale Bernhardt*
I liked this book. The plans are designed to improve endurance, but include some intervals, and are varied and achievable.

*Cycle for Life - Nicole Cooke *
I found this tougher than Bernhardt, with more intervals. Still achievable, but made me struggle on occasions. That probably means it was pretty near perfect for me.

*Time Crunched Cyclist Training Plan - Chris Carmichael*
Tried it twice, and both times I had to give up after a few weeks because it was killing me. If I was 40 years younger, I might have managed to stick with it.

These days I tend to make it up as I go along. I might have some mileage goals, but no specific plan. I'll often try to work on a particular aspect of cycling because I want to see if it makes a difference to my speed or power, or makes things feel easier or more difficult, so at the moment I'm going to be trying to increase my cadence to where it was a few years ago. In theory, that's easily achieved by using smaller gears. If I find I feel better (or, at least, not feel worse) I'll stick with it. In a couple of months, I'll pick some other aspect and play around with that.

Riding outside prevents me from keeping to any HR or power levels. Whatever intentions I set out with, I nearly always end up riding as hard as I feel I can maintain, so I don't use road rides for anything specific. I do a lot of turbo sessions, and that's how I did my plans. Currently, I'm using Bkool's video or 3D rides as substitutes for the road, and I'll design other rides to fit what I want to do. If I fancy some intervals, I'll use a perfectly flat ride. If I want to do some hill work, I can design a session with the gradient and length of hills that I want.

Having said all that, while writing this post I've had another look at Nicole Cooke's plans, and I'm tempted to try one of them again - either "Improving Speed and Endurance", 7 hours a week for 8 weeks or "Getting Serious", 12 hours a week for 8 weeks. Most of it is at an easier intensity than I usually ride at, but there are interval sessions every week. I'll think about it, and let you know.


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## Tin Pot (6 Jan 2017)

Great post @Asa Post 

I'm young, naive and ambitious...well relatively speaking I suppose 

Plus I think a lot. Really, _a lot. _I planned my own training last year and did exactly what I didn't want to do - spent every hour thinking about whether I was doing the right thing and if I should update my plan, and skipping a session and trying to catch-up blah blah.

I want/need to just get on with it. So I've taken up a structured/measured plan that does the thinking for me - I will spend these few weeks making sure I'm content and then so hope to simply execute - consistently - for the next 27 weeks.

I did pretty well last year, but even if this is a terrible plan it should be better for me than last year where I didn't run enough and spent so long on the bike for six months I was either sleeping or riding!

I think if I knew how to train I wouldn't need to do this, but I don't.


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## Tin Pot (6 Jan 2017)

Chappy said:


> I no what you mean it can be hard to find the right stretch of road that mimics the workout.
> 
> For me its the boredom factor I can just about maintain the effort for an hour on the trainer anything longer like the Saturday rides which are an 1 1/2 then i really struggle.



Did you get used to the intensity sessions? I'm feeling pretty whacked already, and I've got another intense turbo, two runs and a swim session this weekend.

In fact, I'm off to bed!


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## Chappy (7 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Did you get used to the intensity sessions? I'm feeling pretty whacked already, and I've got another intense turbo, two runs and a swim session this weekend.
> 
> In fact, I'm off to bed!


You will get used to it overtime, the body will adapt to the the stress and intensity but you also have to put your recovery days to good use as well. Some days I will get on the trainer for a gentle spin other days I will do as little as possible.


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## Tin Pot (12 Jan 2017)

Managed to get in 1:15 on the turbo and out for a 25 min run before the rain/snow started.


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## Shut Up Legs (12 Jan 2017)

I have a 2 week Alpine tour planned for June (Italian and French Alps, then Mont Ventoux, then Pyrenees). My training for that is fairly simple: lots of distance and climbing! Probably not a lot of structure, though. I'll just slowly ramp it up over the next few months, then slack off for the last week or so before flying over there.


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## WelshJon (13 Jan 2017)

Tried the new GCN video, basically 5 mins high spin at 110rpm, 5 mins grind at 60rpm. 4 times. All in an around threshold pace. Pretty tough


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## Tin Pot (15 Jan 2017)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I have a 2 week Alpine tour planned for June (Italian and French Alps, then Mont Ventoux, then Pyrenees). My training for that is fairly simple: lots of distance and climbing! Probably not a lot of structure, though. I'll just slowly ramp it up over the next few months, then slack off for the last week or so before flying over there.
> View attachment 158066



I'd seriously consider structured training - far more likely to work and give you feedback on progress to build confidence.


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## Tin Pot (15 Jan 2017)

WelshJon said:


> Tried the new GCN video, basically 5 mins high spin at 110rpm, 5 mins grind at 60rpm. 4 times. All in an around threshold pace. Pretty tough



Just did the FTP test again, 1hr: warm up Intervals then 20min flat out and warm down.

Ouch. Only saw spots and felt vomity once though, so maybe I could've gone harder.

173W -> 191W

Was hoping for 200


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## HLaB (15 Jan 2017)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I have a 2 week Alpine tour planned for June (Italian and French Alps, then Mont Ventoux, then Pyrenees). My training for that is fairly simple: lots of distance and climbing! Probably not a lot of structure, though. I'll just slowly ramp it up over the next few months, then slack off for the last week or so before flying over there.
> View attachment 158066



I've done a lot of that in the past 



Tin Pot said:


> I'd seriously consider structured training - far more likely to work and give you feedback on progress to build confidence.



But as above I followed a structured training plan and for a lot less time I got the same results on the 312 or maybe even better given my health at the time. I've also had better results in other events


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## screenman (15 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Just did the FTP test again, 1hr: warm up Intervals then 20min flat out and warm down.
> 
> Ouch. Only saw spots and felt vomity once though, so maybe I could've gone harder.
> 
> ...



I have never done a deliberate FTP test, is it usual to warm up for an hour and do intervals first.


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## HLaB (15 Jan 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Just did the FTP test again, 1hr: warm up Intervals then 20min flat out and warm down.
> 
> Ouch. Only saw spots and felt vomity once though, so maybe I could've gone harder.
> 
> ...


Thats a bit long of a warm up. Trainer Road has quite a good one which is just 30mins warm up (see below) and my best result came after a 20 mins warm up. PS I'm due to do another in a few days.




I messed up the pacing on the test above and had too much left in the tank at the end but the structure is good and with a shorter more targetted warm up I'm sure you'll crack 200w


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## Tin Pot (15 Jan 2017)

screenman said:


> I have never done a deliberate FTP test, is it usual to warm up for an hour and do intervals first.


Just my wording it's, a normal test:






About 230 for 5min burning out the anaerobics, then averaged 203 for the 20min test.

The blue is actually target for my new FTP, not the target during the test which was much lower which is a green line.


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## uclown2002 (16 Jan 2017)

Zwift also does a FTP test with the option of 75 or 45 min workout, although both have the 20 min test.

It seems it also does a full 60 min FTP test, should anyone fancy that.

It will also monitor your 20 min best effort during a ride and adjust your FTP upwards if appropriate.

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/articles/210208083-What-is-FTP-and-how-is-it-used-in-Zwift-


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## steve292 (16 Jan 2017)

I've just started the Trainerroad low vol sweet spot base plan. Third year I've done it. did the FTP test today 216w- down from 223 at the start last year.


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## kipster (17 Jan 2017)

I've also just started Sweet spot base low volume on trainer road. I wanted something structured rather than just spinning legs on zwift or half killing myself in bkool races. I have just replaced an old broken bkool with a wahoo Kickr snap and the ftp test on Sunday came in at 251w (or 3.44 w/kg). Second ride on trainerroad tonight, I might have to get iplayer or something in the background as I'm used to watching stuff happen on the screen, watching the chart and the pop up messages might get a little boring.

I'm not training for anything specific but it'll be good to have some base training for the Majorca club trip and try and get my speed up so I can ride with the advanced group.


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## simon walsh (17 Jan 2017)

I find Sufferfest great for training indoors and lots of specific sessions including the rubber glove FTP test. Done it last week ftp of 291. Training ATM for Belfast marathon, gran fondo & Dublin ironman 70.3.


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## postman (23 Jan 2017)

I have just found GCN on the laptop.I am doing a 30 min training plan three times a week.First two i have stopped after 20 mins.Mind you i am 66 and have been off the bike roughly six months it could be more.Also do light hand held weights also found off the laptop.I'll come back in three months and let you know how i am.


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## Tin Pot (27 Jan 2017)

I'm the first recovery week and have picked up a cold/cough sadly.

Quite tough today getting through a relatively easy session, but still finished ok.


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## Asa Post (30 Jan 2017)

Having been persuaded to put some structure into my rides, I’ve now completed two weeks of my plan - Nicole Cooke's Improving Endurance and Speed.

I've adapted her HR zones to five power zones, expressed as ranges of FTP: 56-75%, 76-90%, 91-105%, 106-120%, >120+%

The intervals have been OK – 3 x 10 minutes zone 3 with 10 minutes recovery, and 5 x 3 minutes zone 4 with 2 minutes recovery (progressing to 10 x 2 minutes zone 4 with 1 minute recovery).

The really hard bit has been the 3½ hour zone 2 rides. I’m not used to going much over 2 hours these days, and my ar$e isn’t happy. Recovery has been surprisingly good, though – no stiffness next day.


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## Tin Pot (31 Jan 2017)

In hindsight (and in foresight if I'm honest), doing the 3x(5x1min) VO2 Intervals with this chesty cough was not my brightest idea of the day.

Last week was recovery week and I had to miss my first bike session due to this illness but I'm much brighter today and I'm determined to continue the plan, even if it's at a reduced intensity.

The next two weeks are looking sketchy as I'm abroad without an obvious means of bike training. I've ordered some power pedals so I can use any exercise bike I find, if I can swap the pedals surreptitiously


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## Asa Post (31 Jan 2017)

Today's ride cut the recovery time for the zone 3 efforts from ten minutes down to five.

I wish it hadn't


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## mythste (1 Feb 2017)

How do you guys find commuting and structured training routines?

I'm really wanting to upgrade myself (lord knows I've spent enough money upgrading my gear...) and whilst I've put in almost 600 miles this year I really want something a bit more structured and measurable. However, I commute 80-100 miles a week and It just means I don't have the energy to push a few hours workout 3 nights a week as well. Do any of you manage anything similar? Is it just a case of manning up and getting used to it?


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## Tin Pot (1 Feb 2017)

mythste said:


> How do you guys find commuting and structured training routines?
> 
> I'm really wanting to upgrade myself (lord knows I've spent enough money upgrading my gear...) and whilst I've put in almost 600 miles this year I really want something a bit more structured and measurable. However, I commute 80-100 miles a week and It just means I don't have the energy to push a few hours workout 3 nights a week as well. Do any of you manage anything similar? Is it just a case of manning up and getting used to it?



Well I have specifically stopped unstructured training such as commuting, to do this. I was commuting 200-300km per week this time last year, and like you I was shattered - I think it did my aerobic fitness the world of good, but it didn't push it as far, or as effectively, as structured training will (I hope).

In short I'm doing 5-7hrs constant work on the turbo, instead of 8-12hrs intermittent work at random efforts depending on traffic and weather.

The advice I've heard is to essentially ignore commute time in terms of training, and continue only if it doesn't interfere with quality sessions.


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## r04DiE (11 Mar 2017)

Hmm, interesting stuff re Trainer Road.


Tin Pot said:


> ... I have specifically stopped unstructured training such as commuting...


All I do is commute, that's all I have time for with family and work commitments, but I really would like a bit of structure - ideally, I'd just like to be a bit faster. I commute 200km a week, most weeks and rarely do I get passed. I'm happy about this, I'm not twenty anymore (not thirty, either), so its good that I'm keeping up or beating the young uns.

Still, I'd like a bit of structure, I do ocassionally get passed and I would really like to up my average speed a bit. I bought a BKool trainer last year and I haven't been on it much. This is partly because I'm too tired, home from work too late, or don't get the time due to family commitments. I think that maybe a structured plan will make me stick to doing it and I think I might cancel my BKool subscription and hop onto Trainer Road. I can always use BigRingVR if I fancy a bit of video stuff.


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## r04DiE (11 Mar 2017)

OK, so I have signed up. Can anybody tell me if need the trainer and the speed sensor to use TR? I'm guessing that the turbo on its own is fine and that the speed thingy might just confuse things?


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## Tin Pot (11 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> OK, so I have signed up. Can anybody tell me if need the trainer and the speed sensor to use TR? I'm guessing that the turbo on its own is fine and that the speed thingy might just confuse things?



You need either a speed/cadence sensor or a power meter to use trainerroad.

If the turbo does power your in as well.

If you go the speed/cadence route, (virtual power), check they support your turbo first.


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## screenman (11 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> In hindsight (and in foresight if I'm honest), doing the 3x(5x1min) VO2 Intervals with this chesty cough was not my brightest idea of the day.
> 
> Last week was recovery week and I had to miss my first bike session due to this illness but I'm much brighter today and I'm determined to continue the plan, even if it's at a reduced intensity.
> 
> The next two weeks are looking sketchy as I'm abroad without an obvious means of bike training. I've ordered some power pedals so I can use any exercise bike I find, if I can swap the pedals surreptitiously



Training with an illness is counter productive, you need rest to get over it.


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## r04DiE (11 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> You need either a speed/cadence sensor or a power meter to use trainerroad.
> 
> If the turbo does power your in as well.
> 
> If you go the speed/cadence route, (virtual power), check they support your turbo first.


Thanks, @Tin Pot - I just left the speed thing on the front wheel (so it wasn't spinning), unpaired it and hooked the BKOOL Pro up and all seemed to work fine. Here's my FTP - I was hoping for a bit higher but I ended up with 186. Not too shabby for somebody that has never really done any structured training before.

The 20 min test is hard though, eh? Blimey, I'm aching in places that I've never ached before, but at least that means I put in a good effort. Love the info TR gives along the way, it does help to keep you focused and help you understand exactly how you're supposed to be working. 10/10 so far for TR - let's see what training plans there are on offer for me, and if I get a bit faster. Quite excited, I have to say


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## Tin Pot (11 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Thanks, @Tin Pot - I just left the speed thing on the front wheel (so it wasn't spinning), unpaired it and hooked the BKOOL Pro up and all seemed to work fine. Here's my FTP - I was hoping for a bit higher but I ended up with 186. Not too shabby for somebody that has never really done any structured training before.
> 
> The 20 min test is hard though, eh? Blimey, I'm aching in places that I've never ached before, but at least that means I put in a good effort. Love the info TR gives along the way, it does help to keep you focused and help you understand exactly how you're supposed to be working. 10/10 so far for TR - let's see what training plans there are on offer for me, and if I get a bit faster. Quite excited, I have to say
> 
> View attachment 341989



Brilliant, well done!

i thought I'd need videos to keep me from getting bored but a bit of music is all I need even for the long sessions.


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## steve292 (11 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Brilliant, well done!
> 
> i thought I'd need videos to keep me from getting bored but a bit of music is all I need even for the long sessions.



And me, I like the geeky aspect of it. And the fact that the training plans explain well what their main aims are.



r04DiE said:


> The 20 min test is hard though, eh? Blimey, I'm aching in places that I've never ached before, but at least that means I put in a good effort. Love the info TR gives along the way, it does help to keep you focused and help you understand exactly how you're supposed to be working. 10/10 so far for TR - let's see what training plans there are on offer for me, and if I get a bit faster. Quite excited, I have to say



Nice one. Have you looked in the plans section of the site yet?


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## si_c (11 Mar 2017)

I'm thinking that trainerroad might be an option for me too, just setup the tacx trainer and had a short play around on zwift, absolutely shagged. I can't help but chase people, was following one person up a massive hill on my 26"er, wearing jeans t shirt and a jumper, sweating like a pig and i realised what i was doing. Had to stop before i do myself an injury.

Only wanted to test the ant+ dongle.


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## r04DiE (11 Mar 2017)

steve292 said:


> Nice one. Have you looked in the plans section of the site yet?


Yes, I think I'll start with the Sweet Spot Base. No need for me to go crazy and I would like to keep to my usual Mon, Wed, Fri commute - the Sweet Spot Base runs on Tue, Thu and Sat - so that's all good. Worst ways I will drop a commute if I feel too tired.

Whaddayathink?


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## huwsparky (12 Mar 2017)

Training plans have their place, no doubt about that. With an FTP below 200w there's no need to over think it IMO. Just go out and ride hard, the improvements will come. No doubt I'm gonna get shot down for saying this but hey-ho.


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## steve292 (13 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Yes, I think I'll start with the Sweet Spot Base. No need for me to go crazy and I would like to keep to my usual Mon, Wed, Fri commute - the Sweet Spot Base runs on Tue, Thu and Sat - so that's all good. Worst ways I will drop a commute if I feel too tired.
> 
> Whaddayathink?



Sounds good. thats what i'm doing.



huwsparky said:


> Training plans have their place, no doubt about that. With an FTP below 200w there's no need to over think it IMO. Just go out and ride hard, the improvements will come. No doubt I'm gonna get shot down for saying this but hey-ho.



If he only weighs 60 kg that's over 3w/kg. thats not to shabby.


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## r04DiE (13 Mar 2017)

steve292 said:


> Sounds good. thats what i'm doing.


Excellent. Let me know how you're getting along.


> If he only weighs 60 kg that's over 3w/kg. thats not to shabby.


Ah, sadly not 60kg...


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## r04DiE (13 Mar 2017)

Question:

My first training activity is tomorrow - it listing it as an 8 min test, is this just an FTP test and can I skip it since I already did the 20 min test on Saturday?

Thanks


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## steve292 (14 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Question:
> 
> My first training activity is tomorrow - it listing it as an 8 min test, is this just an FTP test and can I skip it since I already did the 20 min test on Saturday?
> 
> Thanks



Yes, you can, or you can treat it as as a confirmation of your FTP.


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## Tin Pot (14 Mar 2017)

Or substitute a high intensity session with a similar IF


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## r04DiE (15 Mar 2017)

steve292 said:


> Yes, you can, or you can treat it as as a confirmation of your FTP.


Many thanks, I ended up skipping it as I have a sore knee and a long ride coming on Sunday. I'll start it next week and It'll be good to confirm the FTP.


Tin Pot said:


> Or substitute a high intensity session with a similar IF


What is IF, please?


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## Tin Pot (15 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> Many thanks, I ended up skipping it as I have a sore knee and a long ride coming on Sunday. I'll start it next week and It'll be good to confirm the FTP.
> What is IF, please?


Intensity factor, each trainerroad session shows the IF value and estimated TSS (training stress score).

I've taken a random example, you'd want to look further for something less complex imo. But for the purposes of argument these two workouts have the same over all intensity and stress (true that they achieve different things) so swapping this in instead of repeating an FTP test will give you variety and still have you in a state that the training plan expects you to be in.








...But I'd just do the 8 min test.


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## r04DiE (15 Mar 2017)

Ah, I see - thank you @Tin Pot for your excellent, picturised, explanation - that's much appreciated


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## r04DiE (21 Mar 2017)

Well I have started my training this week, and, just for info, here it is.

Tonight's effort was for an 8min FTP, which I found much easier than the 20min one from last week. My FTP has also risen from 186 last time, to 220 tonight. I do think my HRM was playing up as it was registering very low through the second 4min FTP but I would think that this doesn't affect the FTP result.

Again, TR was very helpful with its comments throughout the workout, keeping me focused on the job at hand and providing me with all the information and motivation I needed. Its good.


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2017)

Okay guys and gals, how are we doing so far?

I'm in the last week of Base training Triathlon Full Distance and I'm finishing with an FTP test today!

These last 16 weeks have gone pretty quickly, I've missed 12 of the 48 rides (8 whilst skiing, 4 through poor motivation). Otherwise, I'll have done 36 rides (only 8 outside). If it weren't for the two weeks off I'd be very happy with my commitment.


@CXRAndy
@Joffey
@Asa Post
@MasterDabber
@HLaB
@Chappy
@WelshJon
@Shut Up Legs
@uclown2002
@steve292
@kipster
@simon walsh
@postman
@mythste
@r04DiE
@si_c

Let's see some updates from you guys!


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## WelshJon (24 Mar 2017)

Recently dropped off cycling specific structured straining in favor of trying to lose a few KG. Been doing fasted low intensity gym work in the mornings before work and the odd spin bike HIIT/ tabata sessions. Nothing to monitor power/FTP so cant report progress but doing this and following a vegetarian high carb diet ive come down a few Kg's which is the current goal.

Still going well on the club runs 50+miles and plenty of climbing every Sunday and not particularly fatigued. Clocks go forward this Sunday so hope to throw in a few midweek evening rides and club chaingang sessions should be higher in numbers.


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## Chappy (24 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Okay guys and gals, how are we doing so far?
> 
> I'm in the last week of Base training Triathlon Full Distance and I'm finishing with an FTP test today!
> 
> ...




Well i have just finished my 8 week build phase low volume and have started the specialty climbing road race. The build package was a lot of sweet spot and threshold work only missed a couple due to long work days and lack of motivation. 

I was lucky ( or more unlucky really ) that due to being away with work I had no chance of outside riding so it has all been completed on a Watt bike but that is due to change in the next couple of weeks as I will be commuting again 3 times a week and with weekend rides available again I think I am going to struggle getting on the trainer.


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## mythste (24 Mar 2017)

Less structure, more racing from me! As much as a smart turbo is great for training, the lure to drop into a race has been too much for me...

I have, however seen an incraese in FTP of about 10% since january though so I suppose there is some improvement!


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## si_c (24 Mar 2017)

mythste said:


> Less structure, more racing from me! As much as a smart turbo is great for training, the lure to drop into a race has been too much for me...
> 
> I have, however seen an incraese in FTP of about 10% since january though so I suppose there is some improvement!


I suppose that is the inevitable result when you start training properly, you have to end up racing.


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## si_c (24 Mar 2017)

I've done my first two sessions this week based on an initial FTP of 252.

One interval set followed by a sweet spot set yesterday. The last one felt quite easy. My plan is for two one hour sessions during the week and one longer session at the weekend. The longer one alternating between a set incorporating intervals and then a longer sweet spot run and the other week a 3x 20min FTP set.

Once I'm back to commuting (200km per week) i think that should be enough for me, I don't want to over do it.

If I'm doing a longer ride at the weekend I'll defer that session to the next week.

Ultimately my aim is to increase my climbing and endurance capacity.


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## r04DiE (24 Mar 2017)

Well, last night I did my second session on TR. It was a bit too easy but I'm pleased I've started at the bottom - much better than overdoing it. Really enjoying TR - it's just how I'd imagine having a real coach would be. Its always providing interesting tips and a bit of motivation.

Here's last night's effort. Power drops off a couple of times as a) I forgot to set the fan up (I know), and, b) the Ant+ dongle was a bit too far away so I moved it a bit closer. New HR monitor though so no erroneous data there this time


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2017)

Positive result, FTP up from 217 to 228W 

Kind of not knackered though, feeling ok. At no point was I panting, vision blurring or feeling sick...obviously didn't try hard enough!

Added 5% in the first 5 minutes then 10%, no problems, then tried to do the last ten minutes at +15% but couldn't keep it going.






So a bit of discontinuity as I switched from virtual to power meters, but gained 18W in the first three weeks of January, then _ignoring the three weeks following and jump from 191 to 217_ as I changed meters, and 11W that's still 30W in 16 weeks, or roughly a 15% improvement.

I could retest with a virtual power just to get an absolute gain measurement but I'll leave that until later in the plan.

I'm switching to a tri bike and aero position next week and testing in that position too.


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## steve292 (24 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> I could retest with a virtual power just to get an absolute gain measurement but I'll leave that until later in the plan.


TBH I wouldn't.

I switched from virtual power to a smart trainer, and the virtual power was so far away as to be meaningless. Although you can measure in any units you want as long as they are the same every time.

Nice increase in power tho'

I'm struggling a bit atm as there is a serious illness in the family, and i'm up and down the m4 quite a bit to Pembrokeshire.

I have at least maintained my base fitness, and have just concentrated on reducing weight(I've lost 10 lbs so far), which, providing my ftp doesn't drop to much will go some way towards compensating. I did a 50k with the club on wednesday & didn't struggle to much.
I may have to scrap my Half Iron distance ambitions this year, but thats life.


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## kipster (24 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Okay guys and gals, how are we doing so far?
> 
> I'm in the last week of Base training Triathlon Full Distance and I'm finishing with an FTP test today!
> 
> ...



I completed the 6 week sweet spot 1 but haven't started build phase yet as I was cycling in Majorca for 5 days. As the evenings are getting lighter and the weather better, I think I'll find myself outside now until the Autumn. I will start earlier on TR next year as I found it very good.

My initial FTP was 251 (3.4w/kg), would like to be closer to 4 w/kg by this time next year. At 6'3" and 73kg I need to add power and not lose any weight.


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## HLaB (24 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Okay guys and gals, how are we doing so far?
> 
> I'm in the last week of Base training Triathlon Full Distance and I'm finishing with an FTP test today!
> 
> ...


It seems to be working my last FTP test was 301w and IIRC my first one 200w before I started training a year and a half ago, my coach has advised me to work of 290w though. Touch wood it translates to real seconds on a TT; 200w got me 25.20 on a flat course last years 265w FTP got me 25.03, so fingers crossed.


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## huwsparky (24 Mar 2017)

HLaB said:


> It seems to be working my last FTP test was 301w and IIRC my first one 200w before I started training a year and a half ago, my coach has advised me to work of 290w though. Touch wood it translates to real seconds on a TT; 200w got me 25.20 on a flat course last years 265w FTP got me 25.03, so fingers crossed.



That's not on the same course surely? A 25%+ hike in power would be worth a lot more than 17s unless you were wearing a parachute!!


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## Tin Pot (24 Mar 2017)

+1

There must be more to that story than 17s, surely?


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## HLaB (24 Mar 2017)

huwsparky said:


> That's not on the same course surely? A 25%+ hike in power would be worth a lot more than 17s unless you were wearing a parachute!!


Different days but the same flat course but different bikes. Wouldn't be surprised though if my original FTP test before coaching was wrong pacing and on the low side but I looked back the first two test I done were 194w and 201w and my first test after coaching started was 207w, so 200w was a not bad memory. 
Thinking about last season and the season before I was more comfortable on the older converted road bike (disc cover, forward facing seat post and tt bars with bar end shifters) than the new TT bike, and handled the road bike better too, so I didn't get the full benefit. Net result I've changed the fit on the TT bike which seems to be more comfortable, so fingers crossed I do get the benefits this season.


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## HLaB (24 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> +1
> 
> There must be more to that story than 17s, surely?


Thinking about it there probably was see above ☺


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## r04DiE (25 Mar 2017)

Here's todays effort and that concludes week one. Still too easy but I am going to stick with it as I am sure that will change soon enough!


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## Tin Pot (25 Mar 2017)

Blink and you'll be getting a "plan completed" message like I did today


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## r04DiE (25 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Blink and you'll be getting a "plan completed" message like I did today


Look forward to it and well done you!


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## si_c (25 Mar 2017)

Wife is out for the evening, so decided to do the zwift mountain route. Tried to go as hard as I could throughout, although I found it difficult to maintain a steady power output, so it went up and down a bit.

Glad I did it as training peaks recalculated my FTP as being 300W, somewhat different from the 250W I was working on before, so I'd have been undertraining somewhat. I'd be nice to think that this was all an improvment from a weeks training, but it's more likely that when I did the FTP test previously I was unable to get settled on the bike properly having been off for 4 weeks with a separated shoulder. Hopefully this "new" baseline figure will mean I can actually see some genuine improvements during the year.

https://www.strava.com/activities/914299046

Edit:

I'm actually really surprised it's so high, given I've never done any structured training. I'm pretty crap at climbing hills and I'm not particularly quick, but thats probably because I'm about a stone and a half overweight.


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## Tin Pot (1 Apr 2017)

Okay lads how are we doing this week?

I hurt my knee on the final run of the final session of Base plan, but I got through this week and it seems to be okay again.

Something to show for my efforts - look at the tyre rubber dust!





I'm week one into Build and a day behind already, pushing my long ride (4hr turbo!) into Monday.

Long run and two swims tomorrow, catch-up ride on Monday will get me to:

4 runs
4 bikes
3 swim

Still one swim behind but Hey Ho.

What the week been like?


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## r04DiE (1 Apr 2017)

Glad the knee is feeling better. I finished off week two with three more sessions. I felt the burn on today's 90 minute one, I have to say! Still, I dug in and got on with it, also I managed 150km of commuting during the week, so good stuff really 

Pictures of pain below (Goddard, Monitor, Antelope)


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## HLaB (5 Apr 2017)

Had a bit of a blow out over a long weekend. Had well too much to drink in Belgium particularly on Thursday night and riding the last 50 miles on Saturday whilst topping up the alcohol levels in the evening probably wasn't the best idea  Felt knackered the last few days and managed to escape for a quick outdoors training session today and felt cr@p. I'm hoping its just that I have had a busy week at work plus a cr@ppy McDonalds lunch courtesy of my boss and not that I've blown it too much ahead of my first tt of the season


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## si_c (7 Apr 2017)

Done nothing structured this week, need to get used to doing the commute again or I'm going to break myself. My intention was to do a 3 sessions during this week as a top up, but it's just not happened as I've been exhausted each evening when I get in.

I will have done 225km this week by the time I get home tonight, so for the moment I think that's plenty as I've not done much this year generally, so I will start to add in the structured sessions again in a week or so when I've adjusted to the daily rides again.


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## HLaB (8 Apr 2017)

I looks like my structured training is paying off after a 35sec PB on the Middleton course 50:12  Still plenty of room for improvement as I wasn't down in the Ski Poles enough, which was a good job when I rounded a blind bend in the second last village to find a queue of stationary cars


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## r04DiE (8 Apr 2017)

Nothing this week, but not my fault. Mrs ro4DiE decided we would go to Wales for a week to keep the tiddlers happy over the half term. I took the bike, and the turbo, and the phone, with the TR app. No network at all, it was internet detox, so no TR. I did escape for one day and racked up 120km over and around the Brecon Beacons, so that was nice. Garmin was kind enough to die at about 70km in though so there is no proof apart from these pics 










EDIT: And there's this on Relive.


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## r04DiE (12 Apr 2017)

OK chaps and chapesses. Here's last night's effort. Still delighted with TR in every way. Still learning a lot from my virtual trainer and amazed how ignorant I am to technique after all these years of cycling!


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## r04DiE (13 Apr 2017)

OK, training peeps - I have a session planned tonight on TR. I am supposed to be doing Tue, Thu and Sat every week. Do you think its okay for me to move tonight to tomorrow and Sat to Sun or do I have to do my sessions when TR tells me to? Might sound a bit silly, but just to be sure!


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## BikeCurious (13 Apr 2017)

r04DiE said:


> OK, training peeps - I have a session planned tonight on TR. I am supposed to be doing Tue, Thu and Sat every week. Do you think its okay for me to move tonight to tomorrow and Sat to Sun or do I have to do my sessions when TR tells me to? Might sound a bit silly, but just to be sure!


You can do them on any day, the Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday is just I guideline. I actually do mine Monday, Wednesday and Friday.


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## r04DiE (13 Apr 2017)

Goody, I thought that was the way things were but I do like to stick to the rules for some reason!! Thanks, I'll go out drinking tonight and do the work tomorrow.


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## r04DiE (16 Apr 2017)

Hello all,

So, I completed my next two sessions, one on Friday and one last night. I've noticed for a while now that I tend to slip forward on the saddle - its level, so I thought I'd move it forwards just a few mm. I don't usually mess about with the setup but I've recorded the previous setting so I can always go back. I really seemed to help on the next session (Carson), I was definitely more comfortable and didn't need to stop at all due to numbness (which usually happens when I slip forwards and don't notice for a while). You'll see that I did stop toward the end, but this was due to something else that I may as well share:

I asked my daughter if she'd fill my water bottle up for me and she went off with it and came back and handed it to me. "Is that okay" she said, I said "Yes, babe, that's perfect, thanks." She went off happily. I raise it to my lips and gave it a good squeeze, where, due to my daughter's cross threading of the lid, I was covered in water. Shortly after that, all data went off on the trainer, there was no power, HR, cadence. I soon realised that the Ant+ dongle was sitting on the floor in a shallow puddle of water. So, I dried it off and thatkfully everything recovered 

So, Carson went well, I'm not too keen (or good at) the ILT sections but I suppose I'll improve. I think my form is definitely improving, specifically the pedalling mechanics and this is due to the excellent advice from TR. Funny, but I've always looked at the way professional riders ride and I have always tried to mimic them a bit in the way they hold themselves on the bike. I've always resisted rolling my shoulders and I have always tried to look like I'm not working, even when I am. This is coming in really handy now as TR is recommending this as a way to keep sit bones planted on the saddle and to keep good form.

Eclipse came next and my arse knew it. I got very numb around 55 mins so I had to pause and get some blood circulating down there. This happened again at 1hr 15mins. A bit annoying after I was so comfy following my saddle adjustment, but I will see. It was a 90min session, compared to Carson's 60min session. I don't know if pausing adversely affects the data, but it had to be done!

Eclipse was hard work since there were 20 min sessions closeish (90%ish) to my FTP. The first tries out a quick cadence, the second a slower cadence (that I didn't like), and the 3rd, I think, (my daughter came in and distracetde me a bit), was left up to me, so I took it quick. Pictures below:


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## zigzag (16 Apr 2017)

now on a build phase, still struggling with the vo2max and over-under intervals, only manage to complete first couple of intervals then reduce the intensity. longer intervals under ftp line no problem. the (ambitious) plan is to raise ftp to 4.5w/kg in the next six weeks.


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## huwsparky (16 Apr 2017)

zigzag said:


> the (ambitious) plan is to raise ftp to 4.5w/kg in the next six weeks.


From what?


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## zigzag (16 Apr 2017)

huwsparky said:


> From what?


from 4.1w/kg currently. it seems like a slow and very painful journey..


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## huwsparky (16 Apr 2017)

zigzag said:


> from 4.1w/kg currently. it seems like a slow and very painful journey..


That's a hell of an ask in one year at that fitness level. If it was 3.1 to 3.5 that would be a piece of cake. I'm around the same as you but have started tri training so there's not much hope in kicking on in cycling terms for me this year at least. I'd settle for maintaining what i have to be honest.


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## Tin Pot (21 Apr 2017)

zigzag said:


> now on a build phase, still struggling with the vo2max and over-under intervals, only manage to complete first couple of intervals then reduce the intensity. longer intervals under ftp line no problem. the (ambitious) plan is to raise ftp to 4.5w/kg in the next six weeks.



Wow, came here to post the same complaint!

I took the turbo with me on holidays and had my first VO2 max session blew me apart from the get go. After three one minute vo2 max intervals I was supposed to do 12x 3m VO2 max.

Not a hope in hell.

Failing on the first interval after a minute, bailed on the session after eight failed intervals 

A few days rest through travelling and back on for a much easier 5x 3min VO2 max session.

1. Good
2. Good
3. Good...maybe I could go harder?
4. Uhoh I feel sick. My head is going.
5. Not good (luckily have to get off half way through to attend an appointment.)

I felt ill for about thirty minutes afterwards.


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## HLaB (22 Apr 2017)

My structured training has took more to outdoors and actual TT's. I think the real structured training is paying of, I got a 1min 35sec pb on a 18miler two weeks ago and 1min 22sec on a 10 miler today


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## Tin Pot (4 May 2017)

Bumpety bump - how are we doing?

I've melted down my turbo so I'm scuppered on TrainerRoad for a while, but doing outdoor rides to replace.
4 runs, 4 rides and one swim last week.


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## zigzag (5 May 2017)

the structure went off the rails when i started to do longer and more intense rides outside - i would not recover enough for the hard intervals. so now only do them when i feel fresh and rested.


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## Chappy (5 May 2017)

Indoor training has now gone out the window due to being able to commute and ride outside full time. The only time I will use the trainer now until winter is if there is no chance for an outside ride.


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## Norry1 (5 May 2017)

I've been doing TrainerRoad on and off for about a year now with some reasonable results. I seem to be in a bit of a plateau now - probably because like others I'm now doing decent length weekend outside rides rather than sticking to the plan.
Done Sweet Spot Base 1 and 2 a couple of times
Now doing a bit of VO2 max work as I think that needs pushing up to allow my FTP to rise


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## HLaB (10 May 2017)

As I was saying before and like Norry1 says I'm doing a lot more outdoors stuff and following the OBree way (to train for TT's do TTs). I skipped last nights outdoor session though as I had a specific twinge in my knee. Its disappeared rapidly before after a ride and I've thought nothing of it but it hang round albeit mildly on my rest day. I'm guessing it was the cleats I need for my power meter/ track bikes (Keos) that didn't have the spacers under them that my spd-sl's have. I've added them and things seem 90% good again. Bizarrely I'm looking forward to indoor training when it gets darker again now I've a real power meter.

Edit My knee was about 95% good by the time of my next TT and I set a 41s course PB, 25.11  View: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/14506974


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## Tin Pot (23 May 2017)

Finished build phase and started Speciality with an FTP test. 

9 weeks ago tested: 228. 
8 weeks ago tested in aero position on new bike: 228. 
8 weeks later: 228.

I am extremely disappointed.


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## huwsparky (23 May 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Finished build phase and started Speciality with an FTP test.
> 
> 9 weeks ago tested: 228.
> 8 weeks ago tested in aero position on new bike: 228.
> ...


Do you feel that your a better cyclist? Truth is, your basing everything on a 20min test every two months. Don't worry about it. I've had the same thing happen in the past. If your burying yourself harder than ever in training it's a pretty sure bet your gonna improve.

Ironically, from a personal point of view, I did two events last year which I repeated again this year and pb'd both. 1 by over 30mins over a 112 miles and I know for an absolute fact my 20min best is at least 15-20w down from last year. 

FTP is obviously important, but for endurance events it's just as important to be able to maintain a higher percentage of your FTP for a given period of time. 

Do you have any banker 3-4 hour routes that you could do to compare from last year? No race is ever won on a turbo trainer after all.


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## HLaB (28 May 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Finished build phase and started Speciality with an FTP test.
> 
> 9 weeks ago tested: 228.
> 8 weeks ago tested in aero position on new bike: 228.
> ...


An indoor FTP test? A FTP test just now in the heat compared to one 9 weeks ago when it was cooler probably isn't a great comparison. My FTP was down on my last test and I was a little concerned/disappointed at first but I'm more concerned with my TT times which are definitely improving and at the moment I'm pb'ing by around a minute. If your cycling is improving don't get hung up about it


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## Tin Pot (30 May 2017)

huwsparky said:


> Do you feel that your a better cyclist?



The point of structured training is to have measurable performance, train according to your metrics so that you can optimise performance gains.




HLaB said:


> An indoor FTP test? A FTP test just now in the heat compared to one 9 weeks ago when it was cooler probably isn't a great comparison.



Possibly, but given I'm at the bottom end of the performance scale, structured training should give people like me the biggest gains - 10, 20, 50% gains are not uncommon for some like me at only around 2.7W/kg. Those gains are most noticeable during the build phase - the one I just finished, and I got nada. 

I took some advice from TrainerRoad and retested today but the result was 230.

It's not looking good come my review of TR for triathlon training...nor for Ironman UK, I could be suffering a lot for the same result as last year.


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## HLaB (30 May 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> The point of structured training is to have measurable performance, train according to your metrics so that you can optimise performance gains.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'll be grand (a free wheel,rather than a fixed turbo and air cooling is supposed to be worth 30w). I never had access to a PM when I was younger but I wouldn't be surprised if my FTP was higher then based on a short interval but now I pace better over a longer distance and even if its lower its a more sustainable FTP now;I'm sure yours is too


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