# Tightened Chain - clicking freewheel



## dhd.evans (10 Dec 2017)

My chain got slack on my Pinnacle Dolomite singlespeed and it jumped off the rear cog into the wheel a few times. I tightened the chain by shifting the crank forward on the bottom bracket (a Pinnacle related solution) but now when I'm freewheeling I get serious clicking noises and the chain pulls the wheel forward from time to time. Any ideas/solutions?


----------



## DCLane (10 Dec 2017)

dhd.evans said:


> I get serious clicking noises and the chain pulls the wheel forward from time to time. Any ideas/solutions?



Pulls it forward? i.e. the wheel moves in the frame?

If so it's not tight enough in the frame.


----------



## dhd.evans (10 Dec 2017)

DCLane said:


> Pulls it forward? i.e. the wheel moves in the frame?
> 
> If so it's not tight enough in the frame.



That's... not a bad diagnosis. I've a 30mi ride next week for work so will tighten the wheel before I set off tomorrow. Will post updates!


----------



## mjr (11 Dec 2017)

Big torque wrench is your friend.


----------



## Lonestar (11 Dec 2017)

I had a clicking that went on for thousands of miles on the fixie.Changed the pedals and do you know what? The clicking has gone.

Had done everything else.Bottom bracket chain and it was driving me bonkers.


----------



## dhd.evans (11 Dec 2017)

So, tightened the nuts (giggedy) and the chain is still tugging the freewheel forward; methinks i've overtightened the chain when i tried to stop it jumping. Being new to singlespeeds and chain tension i wonder if this is a 'rookie error' as it where? Thoughts?


----------



## Lonestar (11 Dec 2017)

dhd.evans said:


> So, tightened the nuts (giggedy) and the chain is still tugging the freewheel forward; methinks i've overtightened the chain when i tried to stop it jumping. Being new to singlespeeds and chain tension i wonder if this is a 'rookie error' as it where? Thoughts?



Is it a proper fixie frame? Got a pic?


----------



## dhd.evans (11 Dec 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Is it a proper fixie frame? Got a pic?



This is a stock picture; bike is a Pinnacle Dolomite Singlesped (2017 model). 






It's got a bottom bracket that you can pull or push forward to tighten the chain (held in by bolts):


----------



## Lonestar (11 Dec 2017)

Singlespeed.(doh)

https://www.evanscycles.com/pinnacl...-road-bike-EV264164#modal__product-zoom-modal

Could see it better on here.


----------



## Cycleops (11 Dec 2017)

Having the chain jump off the rear sprocket would suggest the wheel/sprocket isn’t aligned correctly with the chainwheel but this shouldn’t be possible. There is obviously something wrong, I should take it back to Evans as you could end up having an accident. The chain should have some free play in it.


----------



## Andrew1971 (11 Dec 2017)

Are your bottom bracket bolts tight enough to prevent it from spinning round. 
Andrew


----------



## dhd.evans (11 Dec 2017)

Andrew1971 said:


> Are your bottom bracket bolts tight enough to prevent it from spinning round.
> Andrew



Should be, i did tighten them to within an inch of their lives but also worth checking.


----------



## XC26 (11 Dec 2017)

Firstly, don’t over tighten anything to the point that it causes damage. Looking at your photos, it appears that your chain tension is adjusted using an eccentric bottom bracket rather than the rear wheel position within its forks. In fact, your rear wheel appears to sit in vertical dropouts which means there is no horizontal movement/adjustment to tension the chain. On this kind of bike, chain tension is achieved by loosening the nuts that clamp the bottom bracket within its eccentric, oversized enclosing shell, rotating the bottom bracket to a position that provides the desired chain tension and then retightening the clamping nuts to the recommended torque.

Is the chain actually pulling the rear wheel forward and out of the dropout or is it pulling the bottom bracket backwards in the shell, in either case causing the chain to become slack. From the photos, I can’t see how the rear wheel could be pulled forwards without coming out of the dropouts. Is your chain over-tensioned? I would recommend having a bit of slack on your chain, usually just enough to waggle it up and down a bit midway between chainring and sprocket. Often you will find that if you tension the chain to what appears satisfactory and then rotate the pedals, the chain can either be too tight or too slack at different positions of the pedals. So you need to ensure that the chain is not too tight in any position.


----------



## dhd.evans (12 Dec 2017)

It definitely feels like the freewheel; took the wheel out and rotated the axle, clicking and then it catches when trying to reverse. Wonder if it has anything to do with the collision I had last week...


----------



## Cycleops (13 Dec 2017)

You didn’t mention that before! That opens up a new possibility and the alignment I talked should be looked at.


----------



## dhd.evans (14 Dec 2017)

Cycleops said:


> You didn’t mention that before! That opens up a new possibility and the alignment I talked should be looked at.



Yeah, this was the collision:



I couldn't quite believe that the chap just drove into me, much less that it might cause the bike damage. Shifter knocked to a right angle and now the chain jumping along with freewheel acting like a fixie... perhaps this is the cause.


----------



## Cycleops (14 Dec 2017)

Aluminium is a fairly soft metal so it’s more than likely things are bent somewhere, most probably in the rear triangle. Sight down the tubes and see if you can see anything out of shape.
Put the bars straight and run a straight edge or length of string between the wheels to see if they line up.
If the frame is bent it’s junk so you’re going to need a new one. Hope you got the drivers details.


----------



## dhd.evans (14 Dec 2017)

Cycleops said:


> Aluminium is a fairly soft metal so it’s more than likely things are bent somewhere, most probably in the rear triangle. Sight down the tubes and see if you can see anything out of shape.
> Put the bars straight and run a straight edge or length of string between the wheels to see if they line up.
> If the frame is bent it’s junk so you’re going to need a new one. Hope you got the drivers details.



LBS is having a look today; they reckon (at first sight) that the lock nut has come loose and that the wheel is out of true. Oh, and the ridiculous concentric bottom bracket just needs tightening. Squeaky bum time to see if they can sort that before i head home tonight.


----------



## dhd.evans (15 Dec 2017)

The consensus is that the freehub has gone (with 487mi on it). I've had the bike for 1 month, 18 days. 

So off to Evans with the guarantee it is!


----------



## Cycleops (16 Dec 2017)

Maybe Evans using cheaper inferior components in an attempt to buoy up their sinking profits.
Let us know how you get on.


----------



## dhd.evans (18 Dec 2017)

Evans actually doing good; dropped them an e-mail on Friday saying that the freehub was clicking, sticking and generally knackered. They offered to take a look in store. Unfortunately my nearest store is ~70mi away so they have agreed that my LBS can check it over, write a report for the cost of the work and then they'll sort out payment.

I've got to cover 122mi in the next week so it'll get done after that


----------



## EasyPeez (12 Jan 2018)

Cycleops said:


> The chain should have some free play in it.





XC26 said:


> the desired chain tension



Without wishing to derail the thread, what is correct/good chain tension for a SS bike?

I've got about 1.25-1.5" play (available horizontal movement) in the middle of my chain. This means that there is a bit of chain rattle if freewheeling over rough ground. I've tried to go for more tension but anything tighter than this (I have track style drop-outs so achieve greater tension by pulling the wheel back and then securing with the tensioning bolts that screw backwards into the dropouts) and the chain doesn't feel like it's running so smoothly when I have it up on the stand and rotate the cranks.


----------



## 3narf (12 Jan 2018)

It's experience really. You'll notice there are tight spots with the cranks in certain positions (due to uneven wear on the chain) so you want a minimum of free play with the cranks in those positions.

1.5 inches seems a bit much; I think you would have obvious visible sag with that amount of free play. You just need to have enough that the chain actually has a bit of movement at its tight spot and isn't under tension.


----------



## Cycleops (12 Jan 2018)

This is what the master, Sheldon Brown has to say on the matter:

Once you have the chainrings centered and secured, adjust the position of the rear axle to make the chain as nearly tight as possible without binding. Notice how freely the drivetrain turns when the chain is too loose. That is how freely it should turn when you are done, but with as little chain droop as possible.

If the chain is badly worn, adjusting it so it is just short of binding will result in rough running and low efficiency, because it will not engage the teeth of the sprocket evenly. Check the chain for wear, and replace it as needed.


----------



## EasyPeez (12 Jan 2018)

Hmmm. There is a hint of visible sag, wouldn't call it obvious. But both @Cycleops & @3narf 's responses seem to confirm my instincts that the tension ought to be increased. I just don't seem able to find a spot where it's any tighter than it is currently without the chain running less smoothly (not really noticeable while pedalling, but certainly noticeable on the workstand).

The bike and components are second hand; based on the stated mileage when I bought it (was told 400miles + another 850 that I've put on since buying it) there's no way the chain should be badly worn. 

I'll pop the chain wear tool in tonight and see what it's saying.

I plan to put a new freewheel sprocket on next month so will get a new chain then regardless and have another go, see if it makes a difference with the new components. 

Cheers.


----------



## 3narf (13 Jan 2018)

Bear in mind that when you're pedalling the freewheel won't be doing anything, so a bit of tightness and roughness isn't the end of the world when freewheeling. 

Also, I'll most likely be cheap tat if it's the one the bike came with! Freewheels, by their nature (springs forcing pawls in contact with inner hub) are going to wear out, so I wouldn't worry too much about a bit of roughness and noise. Spray some lube into it and adjust so you have just a little play and it's not throwing the chain, and replace the freewheel with a Shimano DX one when it starts annoying you. 

Or a White Brothers one if you have more money than you know what to do with!


----------



## EasyPeez (16 Jan 2018)

3narf said:


> Freewheels, by their nature (springs forcing pawls in contact with inner hub) are going to wear out, so I wouldn't worry too much about a bit of roughness and noise.


It's more a roughness with the way the chain pulls through the sprocket and chainring than a roughness with the freewheel itself. The increased tension just seems to mean the chain doesn't mesh quite so perfectly with the teeth. As I say, it's not really noticeable while riding, but you can feel it when turning the cranks with the bike up on the stand.



3narf said:


> Or a White Brothers one if you have more money than you know what to do with!



I'm getting a White Industries one after payday. Silly price but everyone seems to rate them and the outer sprocket can be replaced without sacrificing the inner freewheel.

I can only think the current chain is slightly too long, given the fact that the wheel is already pulled nearly as far back as it can go in the dropout and I've still got over an inch of play at the mid point.

Currently everything is running smoothly and I have no problems with chain coming off etc. just a clunking noise coming from the freewheel which is there regardless of tension, which others have reported with this particular component, and which is (I think and hope) due to poor bearings.

So my plan is just leave it for now and see how things sit with more tension once I have installed a new (non-clunking) freewheel and new, slightly shorter chain.

Cheers.


----------



## dhd.evans (6 Feb 2018)

An update: LBS replaced the BB and rebuilt the wheel with a Shimano Deore rear hub. Total cost of work was £250. Evans reimbursed me the same day. Job done!


----------

