# Total justification for e bikes



## Phil Fouracre (14 Aug 2016)

Had a couple of e bikes for a while now, and, had all the 'cheating' arguments thrown at us, who gives a stuff what anyone else thinks? 
In the Peaks yesterday, chatting to a guy outside local bike shop. His story is the perfect antidote to idiots who criticise others with no knowledge of their history. 
Diabetic, overweight - so wife buys him an e bike (mountain) he rides it regularly, lost 6 stone! Can now ride with local group, as well as his son. Loves every minute of it, new lease of life, desperate to get out on the hills at every opportunity.
What more could you ask for?


----------



## Haitch (14 Aug 2016)

My father-in-law is currently riding his ebike down the Danube. Not bad for an 84 year old.


----------



## jonny jeez (14 Aug 2016)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Had a couple of e bikes for a while now, and, had all the 'cheating' arguments thrown at us, who gives a stuff what anyone else thinks?
> In the Peaks yesterday, chatting to a guy outside local bike shop. His story is the perfect antidote to idiots who criticise others with no knowledge of their history.
> Diabetic, overweight - so wife buys him an e bike (mountain) he rides it regularly, lost 6 stone! Can now ride with local group, as well as his son. Loves every minute of it, new lease of life, desperate to get out on the hills at every opportunity.
> What more could you ask for?


Do many folk consider them cheating?

I'm sure some do but I actually think most just assume that there is a reason a person chooses one, beyond cheating

I was a spokes width away from buying a kalkhoff a few years ago. I'm very glad I didn't for a range of reasons but could definitely see the appeal.


----------



## CanucksTraveller (14 Aug 2016)

Are people generally anti e-bikes here? It's not the impression I've got... maybe the odd dissenter but you'll always have different opinions on any subject. 

If people want to ride an e-bike I'm pleased for them that they're getting out, it's better than sitting on a sofa. It can't be cheating if they're not competing. Not unless they pass me anyway.


----------



## dodgy (14 Aug 2016)

I wouldn't mind a Gocycle G3, can't quite justify the outlay, though. If I was sure my wife would use it for the odd pint of milk journey instead of the car, could be tempted.


----------



## keithmac (14 Aug 2016)

I honestly haven't had one negative comment while riding the Gtech!.


----------



## stearman65 (14 Aug 2016)

Alan H said:


> My father-in-law is currently riding his ebike down the Danube. Not bad for an 84 year old.


Hope he's got his wellies on


----------



## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2016)

Alan H said:


> My father-in-law is currently riding his ebike down the Danube. Not bad for an 84 year old.



Waltzing along?


... and would criticism make him feel Blue?


----------



## steveindenmark (14 Aug 2016)

It is only recently on here that the electric bike knockers have stopped. You do not need to have to justify having an electric bike. Jannie and I loved having ours. 

Alan H. respect to your father in law. I hope he is having a great time. My father in law is also 8 and rides his road bike regularly in the summer.


----------



## broady (27 Aug 2016)

@keithmac 
How is the Gtech?
My mum is thinking of getting one to assist her on the hills.
How far can you realistically go?
What's it like once the power is gone?


----------



## Saluki (27 Aug 2016)

broady said:


> @keithmac
> How is the Gtech?
> My mum is thinking of getting one to assist her on the hills.
> How far can you realistically go?
> What's it like once the power is gone?


I was about to ask similar. My neighbour was asking me about them today.


----------



## keithmac (27 Aug 2016)

I'm very happy with the Gtech, for my commute (flat and moderate hills) it's great. They claim 30 miles on a battery but it depends on how you ride and the amount of effort you put in.

I ride it just like a normal bike so assist only kicks in for me from setting off and hills/ wind so I get 50miles from a charge.

It's light for an ebike (16kg) and the Gates Carbon Drive is nice and smooth. No gears though!.

If you're going to tackle a lot of steeper hills I would say a geared bike would be more practical (Halfords sell a Carrera Crossfire-e that gets good user reviews) but that is 20+kg I beleive.

The brunt of the assist torque on the Gtech is at 12mph.

For me the Gtech is perfect for my work bike (virtually no maintenance, no gears to faf with, light and easy to steer and nice assist for the hills).

It's more of a helping hand on the hills for me, if you don't have a lot of energy and lots of hills to climb then maybe not the best choice?.

They do 14 day returns if you're not happy/ don't get on with it but for me its the perfect commuter and really glad I bought one!


----------



## keithmac (27 Aug 2016)

Just gone up a moderately steep hill on way to work with no pedal input (just lightly turning) and it managed 11mph all on its own so not to bad at all!.


----------



## Pale Rider (27 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> I'm very happy with the Gtech, for my commute (flat and moderate hills) it's great. They claim 30 miles on a battery but it depends on how you ride and the amount of effort you put in.
> 
> I ride it just like a normal bike so assist only kicks in for me from setting off and hills/ wind so I get 50miles from a charge.
> 
> ...



I've not tried a Gtech, but this seems like a spot on review to me from what I've read and heard about the bike and from my knowledge of other ebikes.

Another point in the Gtech's favour may be reliability.

Many sub-£1,000 Chinese ebikes suffer from niggly faults, often electrical.

Lots of reports already of the motor cutting out on the Carrera ebike.

Such reports about the Gtech are noticeable by their absence.

That could be another benefit of its relative simplicity.


----------



## keithmac (27 Aug 2016)

That's exactly why I bought mine, simple but very well engineered.

The frame has been designed from the ground up to utilise the Carbon Belt system and the rear hub motor, no nasty torque arms etc.

No messy wiring everywhere, no computer, the battery doesn't really look like a battery and easy to unclip.

Some people are dissapointed because it doesn't ride itself but I wanted a proper bike with assistance when needed, this fits the bill perfectly for me!


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Aug 2016)

A serious question. Without looking it up can you get E bikes with drop handlebars? I'm not a flat handlebar fan. Anyway, i ask because i envisage myself ending up with an E bike sooner rather than later. I feel really down after last weeks incident when someone fell over and knocked me off. It's taking longer to recover than i thought, i can't even use my exercise bike yet as it hurts too much. I'm just wondering how many more knocks my old legs can take before i have to have a little help.It's too hilly around here to just sail along leisurely. If you can buy E bikes that look nearly the same as road bikes then i'm interested in one!


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Aug 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> A serious question. Without looking it up can you get E bikes with drop handlebars? I'm not a flat handlebar fan. Anyway, i ask because i envisage myself ending up with an E bike sooner rather than later. I feel really down after last weeks incident when someone fell over and knocked me off. It's taking longer to recover than i thought, i can't even use my exercise bike yet as it hurts too much. I'm just wondering how many more knocks my old legs can take before i have to have a little help.It's too hilly around here to just sail along leisurely. If you can buy E bikes that look nearly the same as road bikes then i'm interested in one!




I'm not sure you could to be honest. There is usually a throttle on the handle bars and I'm not sure drop handlebars would work. I don't think I have seen any ebikes with them fitted.


----------



## Accy cyclist (28 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> I'm not sure you could to be honest. There is usually a throttle on the handle bars and I'm not sure drop handlebars would work. I don't think I have seen any ebikes with them fitted.




Thanks! Then i'd just have to get used to flat bars. I'm not a fan of the upright position but i can adapt to many things!


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Aug 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Thanks! Then i'd just have to get used to flat bars. I'm not a fan of the upright position but i can adapt to many things!




Saying that, there are electric conversion kits you can buy to convert an existing bike, so you may well be able to Do it. I've never looked at them. There Is a good forum called pedelecs, and They could help you.


----------



## DEFENDER01 (28 Aug 2016)

I would give the flat handlebars a go you may find you get on better with them.
Us humans are a very versatile species i am sure in a short time you will be saying i am not a fan of drop handlebars.


----------



## Phil Fouracre (28 Aug 2016)

As the op, and a convert to ebikes, I can highly recommend Cyclotricity kits. They do a number of different options that seem to be able to suit most bikes
I've fitted 250w front wheel kits to two Thorn Tours. Now in the process of fitting two 500w rear wheel kits to two Giant Stance full suss mtbs


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Aug 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> A serious question. Without looking it up can you get E bikes with drop handlebars? I'm not a flat handlebar fan. Anyway, i ask because i envisage myself ending up with an E bike sooner rather than later. I feel really down after last weeks incident when someone fell over and knocked me off. It's taking longer to recover than i thought, i can't even use my exercise bike yet as it hurts too much. I'm just wondering how many more knocks my old legs can take before i have to have a little help.It's too hilly around here to just sail along leisurely. If you can buy E bikes that look nearly the same as road bikes then i'm interested in one!



As has been said, nothing to stop you converting a drop bar bike.

There are not many ready made drop bar ebikes, but Giant have recently entered the market.

This Bike Radar test is worth a read.

The hacks did manage to overheat some of the bikes on the Alpine-style climb, and cook the brakes on the way down.

But I wouldn't worry too much about that, I suspect they tried to climb in too high a gear, which some crank drive ebikes don't like.

These guys descend like demons as you know, so I doubt a recreational rider would either do such a long descent or attack the descent as aggressively.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/giant-road-e-review-47443/


----------



## MarquisMatsugae (28 Aug 2016)

I had no idea there was no justification for e bikes.
As long as someone is out on a bike,no matter if they need a bit of assistance,they are on a bike.
And that makes them a cyclist no matter what


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Aug 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> I had no idea there was no justification for e bikes.
> As long as someone is out on a bike,no matter if they need a bit of assistance,they are on a bike.
> And that makes them a cyclist no matter what




Very true...


----------



## MarquisMatsugae (28 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> That's exactly why I bought mine, simple but very well engineered.
> 
> The frame has been designed from the ground up to utilise the Carbon Belt system and the rear hub motor, no nasty torque arms etc.
> 
> ...



Saw @keithmac 's G-Tech before,and I think it's kinda cool.


----------



## keithmac (28 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> I'm not sure you could to be honest. There is usually a throttle on the handle bars and I'm not sure drop handlebars would work. I don't think I have seen any ebikes with them fitted.



If you go for a more "bike" like ebike it won't have a throttle, they use crank torque and cadence sensing to meter out the assistance.

The Giant Road-e is a beautiful looking bike and you'd be hard pressed to tell it was electric at first glance..


----------



## Phil Fouracre (29 Aug 2016)

Just 'road testing' my Giant full suss with kit as mentioned earlier. Works a dream, just 'floats along', sad, or what? Talking about fitting kits to different bikes, these will fit anything. Told by Cyclotricity that they're not often fitted to full suss, and, that it could be difficult. If you are half practical I reckon it can be done, had to modify pedal sensing arrangements, and fiddle about with general positioning and layout, but, now very pleased. Also, re the throttle, these kits have both pedal sensing and throttle, so, the best of both worlds.


----------



## raleighnut (29 Aug 2016)

The one problem with the Cyclotricity kit would be the brake levers, these have cut-outs installed. The wheel will power without them (I only use one of them on the Trike as the other lever has a 'handbrake' button) but I'd want to be able to cut the power off 'just in case'


----------



## keithmac (29 Aug 2016)

This is my next project, Carrera Vengence Ultimate/ Nuvinci 360 rear hub/ TSDZ2 Mid motor with 36v 15ah battery.

Slow going but nearly got it finished!, won't be using the tensioner setup in the pic as it doesn't allow the chain to mesh with much of the rear sprocket..


----------



## doog (29 Aug 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> Do many folk consider them cheating?



Only us loaded up folk left in their wake on the long haul routes. 

An elderly couple flew past me in Germany. I caught up with the bloke and asked if he was electrically assisted(out of interest)..he looked offended, denied it then left me for dust.


----------



## Accy cyclist (14 Sep 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> As has been said, nothing to stop you converting a drop bar bike.
> 
> There are not many ready made drop bar ebikes, but Giant have recently entered the market.
> 
> ...




That bike looks good Pale Rider! At least i now know you can get drop bars.


----------



## swee'pea99 (14 Sep 2016)

I'm with what seems to be the consensus: e bikes don't need 'justification'.


----------



## dodgy (14 Sep 2016)

The only problem I have with e-bikes is their price! Most of the ones that road.cc's sister ebike magazine tweet about are circa £3000!


----------



## welsh dragon (14 Sep 2016)

dodgy said:


> The only problem I have with e-bikes is their price! Most of the ones that road.cc's sister ebike magazine tweet about are circa £3000!




You are looking in the wrong place then I'm afraid. Yes they cost more, they do have a motor and battery so obviously they cost more, but you can get a bike for around £600 £700. Whoosh ebikes are recommended and there are others in the £1000 or less price range.


----------



## John the Monkey (14 Sep 2016)

Satan's hairy badgers. If you like it, ride it.

So long as it harm no one, do what thou wilt (etc)


----------



## numbnuts (14 Sep 2016)

raleighnut said:


> The one problem with the Cyclotricity kit would be the brake levers, these have cut-outs installed. The wheel will power without them (I only use one of them on the Trike as the other lever has a 'handbrake' button) but I'd want to be able to cut the power off 'just in case'


Hi fit one of these instead of the the brake levers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-bike-HWBS-hidden-wire-brake-sensor-/141749471827


----------



## keithmac (14 Sep 2016)

Neither my Gtech or the TSDZ2 converted Carrera have brake cutouts, both require pedal movement to activate the motor so as soon as you stop pedalling the motor stops.


----------



## raleighnut (14 Sep 2016)

keithmac said:


> Neither my Gtech or the TSDZ2 converted Carrera have brake cutouts, both require pedal movement to activate the motor so as soon as you stop pedalling the motor stops.


I set mine up thumb throttle only as I wanted to be able to travel at walking speed without wasting 'assist' power and I don't need assistance going downhill (plus it saved me £100 not buying the handlebar unit and crank sensor)


----------



## keithmac (14 Sep 2016)

Fair do's!. I normally coast downhill on the Gtech (fixed gear so 20mph+ is to much leg work!).


----------



## r04DiE (14 Sep 2016)

keithmac said:


> That's exactly why I bought mine, simple but very well engineered.
> 
> The frame has been designed from the ground up to utilise the Carbon Belt system and the rear hub motor, no nasty torque arms etc.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's really smart - I really like that. Don't quite need an electric bike yet but that's what I'd go for if I did, and that's what I'd recommend to others!

Lovely


----------



## keithmac (14 Sep 2016)

It really is a nice bike to ride and very low maintenance.

Technically I don't "need" an ebike but it deffinitely has made my ride to work and back far more enjoyable.

Just not having to keep up with the chain cleaning and lubing is a bonus, that may sound lazy but I repair motorcycles all day so see enough of that at work .


----------



## Colin_P (14 Sep 2016)

raleighnut said:


> I set mine up thumb throttle only as I wanted to be able to travel at walking speed without wasting 'assist' power and I don't need assistance going downhill (plus it saved me £100 not buying the handlebar unit and crank sensor)



Interesting stuff.

I've been pondering for a while now. I've got a heart condition and am on a hefty dose of drugs which limit me somewhat. I'm ok on the flat and obviously downhill but hills are a killer.

What I'd like is a really simple setup.

Front wheel motor, I'd be happy with a 250w legal motor.
A thumb throttle
Battery, hopefully on the rear rack which I already have.

I'm not interested in pedal assist or brake cut outs or any of the fancy stuff, I just want a boost up the hills as and when. It sounds like you have got that setup.

Do you have any more details of what you are running?


----------



## Pale Rider (14 Sep 2016)

Colin_P said:


> Interesting stuff.
> 
> I've been pondering for a while now. I've got a heart condition and am on a hefty dose of drugs which limit me somewhat. I'm ok on the flat and obviously downhill but hills are a killer.
> 
> ...



A couple of points to bear in mind.

A full-speed throttle is now illegal, even it cuts out at the legal speed limit of 15.5mph.

Plenty of users don't worry about that, and it's hardly the most serious offence in the criminal calendar, so it really depends on your attitude to being a bit naughty.

There have been no prosecutions of which I'm aware, but things could get a bit unpleasant if you happen to clout a pedestrian and are found to be riding what the law would describe as an unlicensed moped.

Putting that aside, what you want is eminently doable for a few hundred quid.

Practically, riding the converted bike unpowered may not suit you.

The extra weight makes a big difference, and all motors have some resistance when unpowered.

'Like riding through treacle' is one description, at the very least it's like riding a loaded tourer.

So there's something to be said for pedal assist.

A decent controller will enable you to do not a lot more than 'unweight' the bike on the flat, then dial up some more grunt on hills.


----------



## Colin_P (14 Sep 2016)

Thanks for that @Pale Rider 

With regard to the thumb throttle I would have thought it would have operated something like a scalextric trigger, obviously with a controller which I omitted to mention in my questions. I would intend on fitting a controller.

Interesting about the loaded tourer feeling though. That could be the make or break for me. I suppose the only way to find out is to try one.


----------



## raleighnut (14 Sep 2016)

Colin_P said:


> Interesting stuff.
> 
> I've been pondering for a while now. I've got a heart condition and am on a hefty dose of drugs which limit me somewhat. I'm ok on the flat and obviously downhill but hills are a killer.
> 
> ...


250w front drive kit with a rack-mount battery from Cyclotricity (the rack is a 'double decker' and the battery slides in below the top leaving the rack top free) the thumb throttle and brake levers come with the 'hall effect' controller and wiring loom in with the wheel kit and the battery is then one of 3 options

Seat post mount @9Ah
Bottle cage mount @12Ah
Rack mount (with rack) @12Ah
There are then 2 controller options, 1 a basic assist level controller (@£50) and the other an 'advanced' controller (@£100) but neither of those are needed but they may be a legal requirement now the law has been altered, although as it is a kit (and they sell up to 1000w 'off road kits too) they may not apply the regulations too 'rigidly'.

Good points of the kits

The drive wheel 'freewheels' when the motor isn't in use so there is no drag when not using 'assist'.
The front wheel had 'disc brake' mounts on the hub (standard 6 bolt mount) but both of our bike/trike kit equipped ones use V-brakes
Bad Points

There is a weight penalty.
You need to use the throttle carefully when climbing steep hills, on the trike especially I can hear the motor begin to 'labour' if too much power is applied to it. My 'solution' is to reduce the power until the noise subsides but the motor is still pulling by judicial throttle use (the motor may be safe or it could 'burn out' I just don't want to take the risk now it is over 2yrs old and out of guarantee however the trike is a 'hefty old hector' and Maz's Dawes suffers this much less)


----------



## raleighnut (14 Sep 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> A couple of points to bear in mind.
> 
> A full-speed throttle is now illegal, even it cuts out at the legal speed limit of 15.5mph.
> 
> ...




The Cyclotricity kit I have (well 2 of em cos Maz has one as well) are 'dragless' motors, in fact they 'freewheel' better than a few wheels I own on normal bikes (those with rubber 'seals' on the axle)


----------



## raleighnut (14 Sep 2016)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...rator/&usg=AFQjCNGTR083F6l92KZacE-veHmfcl9EWg


----------



## RMurphy195 (26 Sep 2016)

Not sure if I've said this before - but - I was a "Naysayer" until one day I was looking at an ebike outside the cafe at the foot of Cader Idris a while back, and got talking to the owner. A local gentleman in his late 80's who would have had to give up cycling for health/fitness reasons but as a lifelong cyclist he'd switched to an ebike so he could still enjoy his cycling,with a little help on the hills (its a tad hilly in that part of the world!).

So now after visiting the bike show I'm thinking "maybe that's me in a few years time".

But I'm a tad worried about the prospect of meeting one of these on Cannock Chase/Tissington Trail/Forest of Dean etc. especially if in a couple of years I have my Grandson in tow
http://www.electric-bike-factory.co...ic_bike.html?gclid=CJLYufvJrc8CFVdAGwod4eMJlw
http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/stealth-b-52-bomber/


----------



## Lonestar (28 Sep 2016)

Love racing ebikes and have caught up with a few...and they fascinate me.Interested in getting one now to make n+5.


----------



## DEFENDER01 (28 Sep 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Love racing ebikes and have caught up with a few...and they fascinate me.Interested in getting one now to make n+5.


And we love people chasing us knowing how much effort they put into it compared to us.


----------



## r04DiE (28 Sep 2016)

DEFENDER01 said:


> And we love people chasing us knowing how much effort they put into it compared to us.


And we love catching you, knowing how few calories you're burning, and how many more 'calorie free' pies and beer we can have than you.


----------



## DEFENDER01 (28 Sep 2016)

r04DiE said:


> And we love catching you, knowing how few calories you're burning, and how many more 'calorie free' pies and beer we can have than you.


They don't all catch us.
Its not the calories that make people take up e cycling as in my case its the exercise that helps with knee problems.


----------



## RobWard (28 Sep 2016)

A lot of interesting reading, I am almost 47yrs of age and have been pondering for a few months now between ebike and normal. The thing that puts me off an ebike is knowing I will never achieve my targets. For one, The Way Of The Roses. I like to go out on my bike and clock on the miles, The further I go the fitter I am becoming. I would love some assist on some of the hills near me, But I hate the thought of the battery running out when I am some 30 miles away from home, I feel this would be like peddling a snow plough back home.

I think when people refer to ebikes as cheating they mean its not you the cyclist who has done the work. If I was on an ebike, I would not record any of my trips or goals as I would feel it was not me who did it. The satisfaction of achieving targets un aided leaves me with much sense of pride.


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Sep 2016)

RobWard said:


> A lot of interesting reading, I am almost 47yrs of age and have been pondering for a few months now between ebike and normal. The thing that puts me off an ebike is knowing I will never achieve my targets. For one, The Way Of The Roses. I like to go out on my bike and clock on the miles, The further I go the fitter I am becoming. I would love some assist on some of the hills near me, But I hate the thought of the battery running out when I am some 30 miles away from home, I feel this would be like peddling a snow plough back home.
> 
> I think when people refer to ebikes as cheating they mean its not you the cyclist who has done the work. If I was on an ebike, I would not record any of my trips or goals as I would feel it was not me who did it. The satisfaction of achieving targets un aided leaves me with much sense of pride.




Obviously if you have targets and goals you want to achieve, then an bike is not for you. They are mainly for people like me who cycle purely for pleasure, are not competing or want to compete and who don't care about targets. We cycle for pleasure and exercise. And even with an ebike, you still have to work. The bike doesn't do all the work. It simply assists with the hills.


----------



## Roxy641 (28 Sep 2016)

RobWard said:


> A lot of interesting reading, I am almost 47yrs of age and have been pondering for a few months now between ebike and normal. The thing that puts me off an ebike is knowing I will never achieve my targets. For one, The Way Of The Roses. I like to go out on my bike and clock on the miles, The further I go the fitter I am becoming. I would love some assist on some of the hills near me, But I hate the thought of the battery running out when I am some 30 miles away from home, I feel this would be like peddling a snow plough back home.
> 
> I think when people refer to ebikes as cheating they mean its not you the cyclist who has done the work. If I was on an ebike, I would not record any of my trips or goals as I would feel it was not me who did it. The satisfaction of achieving targets un aided leaves me with much sense of pride.



Kind of what I'm feeling. My family brought me a bike last xmas and there was an option for them to get me an ebike. I did feel that I do need the excise, and although I do use the bike for pleasure ie. just going for a cycle ride just for the sake of it. I also do it go keep fit. How would I be able to work out if I had really done twenty miles that week if the bike was doing the work whenever I encounter even a slight hill?


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Sep 2016)

The simple.answer is to have both an ordinary bike an an ebike. If you want a good workout use the ordinary bike. If you want a leisurely bimble then the ebike can be used. Simple.


----------



## RobWard (28 Sep 2016)

How do they fair in heavy rain and thunder storms. It maybe nice a sunny when you go out, but the weather can change pretty quick around here.


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Sep 2016)

RobWard said:


> How do they fair in heavy rain and thunder storms. It maybe nice a sunny when you go out, but the weather can change pretty quick around here.




This is Wales you know. . Not sure about really heavy rain, but normal rain they should be ok. Everything is well protected and insulated and if you couldn't use them in the rain, the powers that be wouldn't allow them on the road.


----------



## Roxy641 (28 Sep 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> The simple.answer is to have both an ordinary bike an an ebike. If you want a good workout use the ordinary bike. If you want a leisurely bimble then the ebike can be used. Simple.



And if I could afford it I would buy an ebike. I'll make do with the one I've got.


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Sep 2016)

Roxy641 said:


> And if I could afford it I would buy an ebike. I'll make do with the one I've got.




I have one of each, so if I'm feeling fit I can choose my ordinary bike. It's a win win situation.


----------



## Lonestar (28 Sep 2016)

Wondering if I could convert the Brompton into an ebike.At least if I felt like it I could convert it back.

Looked at plenty of ebikes but It doersn't look that easy to choose.Plus my knees are fine even though I fell off the Brompton two weeks ago.Couldn't get out of the clips.Fixed now.


----------



## welsh dragon (28 Sep 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Wondering if I could convert the Brompton into an ebike.At least if I felt like it I could convert it back.
> 
> Looked at plenty of ebikes but It doersn't look that easy to choose.Plus my knees are fine even though I fell off the Brompton two weeks ago.Couldn't get out of the clips.Fixed now.




You can buy an eBrompton. I don't see why you couldn't convert one.


----------



## raleighnut (28 Sep 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Wondering if I could convert the Brompton into an ebike.At least if I felt like it I could convert it back.
> 
> Looked at plenty of ebikes but It doersn't look that easy to choose.Plus my knees are fine even though I fell off the Brompton two weeks ago.Couldn't get out of the clips.Fixed now.


plenty of 20" front wheel kits available.


----------



## Lonestar (28 Sep 2016)

Fascinated by ebikes...Never had them in the old days...Or perhaps we did have as far as I'm told.All I had was a dynamo.


----------



## r04DiE (28 Sep 2016)

DEFENDER01 said:


> They don't all catch us.


They don't need to catch you to burn more calories than you! 


> Its not the calories that make people take up e cycling as in my case its the exercise that helps with knee problems.


I know  I am fully behind anybody that wants to use, or is using an ebike - I think that they're an excellent thing and I hope that one day, when my poor body is too tired to pedal as much as it does now, they'll assist me too in carrying on with my favourite kind of transport. Long live the ebike!


----------



## raleighnut (28 Sep 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Fascinated by ebikes...Never had them in the old days...Or perhaps we did have as far as I'm told.All I had was a dynamo.


They used these in the 50s,


View: https://youtu.be/jB3HDjJCerE


----------



## Lonestar (28 Sep 2016)

I was looking at the dynamo.

That's a funny ebike....Sounds a bit emgineeeeeeeeee.

Number plate ion the front is illegal now but I do remember them.


----------



## Pale Rider (29 Sep 2016)

Lonestar said:


> Wondering if I could convert the Brompton into an ebike.At least if I felt like it I could convert it back.
> 
> Looked at plenty of ebikes but It doersn't look that easy to choose.Plus my knees are fine even though I fell off the Brompton two weeks ago.Couldn't get out of the clips.Fixed now.



The best engineered - and most expensive - conversion kit for a Brompton is the Nano.

The way the battery connects via the luggage block is neat.

However, the electricals are fairly basic Chinese, which are OK, but you could buy the components for less than the £700+ charged by Nano.

Returning the donor bike to standard is difficult because the drop outs need to be filed to fit the motor axle.

Nothing to stop you buying another fork.

The money no object solution is a factory eBrompton.

It's been promised for several years, but Brompton now seem relatively insistent it will be available from spring, next year.

The bike has been designed with input from Williams Engineering - the Formula One motor racing company.

That could either mean genuine technological advances, or as is often the case with Brompton these days, marketing spiel to make the bike desirable to well-off buyers.

http://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/


----------



## Lonestar (29 Sep 2016)

Yeah I'm sort of yes no with this idea.It seems like a good idea and then it doesn't.Also doesn't seem like they are particularly fast anyway and where to stick the battery is fiddly anyway.The forks thing is another put off.Still could do it but a purpose built bike seems a better idea.


----------



## welsh dragon (29 Sep 2016)

They are brilliant, and put an enormous smile on you're face whenever you use it.


----------



## Lonestar (29 Sep 2016)

Vitesse folding ebike on the CS 3 tonight and as hard as I tried I just could not catch him and he wasn''t even peddling (pedaling)....


----------



## RMurphy195 (29 Sep 2016)

I think it might have been the Nano conversion I saw at the bike show. Ingenious, but when I picked it up in its folded state - I couldn't, it was heavy, and with the weight of the battery/motor it wanted totip over onto one side. Rather defeated the object,from my perspective,of the Brompton. If looking at this type of conversion try the practicalities of folding and lifting this first - imagine getting onto a train, carrying it across a station concourse/through ticket barriers etc.


----------



## Pale Rider (30 Sep 2016)

Motors and batteries which have reasonable power and capacity are heavy.

A folding ebike with acceptable performance is cumbersome, so the fold is really only suitable for lifting in and out of the car or for storage in a confined area.


----------



## Lonestar (30 Sep 2016)

Agree...a folding ebike does not seem the best of ideas...That ebike on the CS 3 last night had a big case on the rack on the back with a green button.I couldn't see the battery so I guess that was it?


----------



## DEFENDER01 (30 Sep 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Motors and batteries which have reasonable power and capacity are heavy.
> 
> A folding ebike with acceptable performance is cumbersome, so the fold is really only suitable for lifting in and out of the car or for storage in a confined area.


Yes i must say i wouldn't want to carry my e cycle folder far.
As you say they are only suitable for storage and transporting in a vehicle which to be honest is really their intended purpose.


----------



## welsh dragon (30 Sep 2016)

Agreed with the above. You certainly wouldn't want to try to get one on a train.


----------



## gavroche (30 Sep 2016)

I must admit that for a long time I thought e- bikes were for "lazy people". Not so now as I finally can see the advantages it offers to many "would be cyclists" but can't be for many reasons.At the age of 66 soon, I can see me getting one in about 10 years time , when I am old.


----------



## fossyant (30 Sep 2016)

gavroche said:


> I must admit that for a long time I thought bikes were for "lazy people". Not so now as I finally can see the advantages it offers to many "would be cyclists" but can't be for many reasons.At the age of 66 soon, I can see me getting one in about *30 y*ears time , when I am old.



Fixed that for you


----------



## 3narf (12 Oct 2016)

eBikes are OK as long as everyone remembers they're motorcycles...


----------



## DEFENDER01 (12 Oct 2016)

3narf said:


> eBikes are OK as long as everyone remembers they're motorcycles...


Yes they are a cycle with a motor but i wouldn't say i am going out on my motorcycle.


----------



## 3narf (12 Oct 2016)

DEFENDER01 said:


> Yes they are a cycle with a motor but i wouldn't say i am going out on my motorcycle.



But you can't _really_ say you're going out cycling, either, can you?


----------



## DEFENDER01 (12 Oct 2016)

3narf said:


> But you can't _really_ say you're going out cycling, either, can you?


Yes you can.
They still have pedals and you can still use them as you would any other cycle.
They just do away with hills and headwinds.


----------



## Supersuperleeds (14 Oct 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> As has been said, nothing to stop you converting a drop bar bike.
> 
> There are not many ready made drop bar ebikes, but Giant have recently entered the market.
> 
> ...



When they get down to half their current price I would be tempted to have one of these. Only thing that would stop me is if I couldn't use it for the Imperial Century challenge


----------



## Pale Rider (14 Oct 2016)

Supersuperleeds said:


> When they get down to half their current price I would be tempted to have one of these. Only thing that would stop me is if I couldn't use it for the Imperial Century challenge



Not sure if one would work for you as a strong push bike rider.

Using the motor, even on lowest setting, would need a second battery to cover 100 miles.

You could turn the motor off on the flat/ride above the assist limit of 15.5mph, but you might find pushing the extra weight would outweigh any benefit on hills.

It would be an interesting experiment for you to do the same 100-mile ride on both types of bike.


----------



## Lonestar (14 Oct 2016)

I'd like to get one as they are fast and I'm and I have a big interest in electronics and mechanics.

I'm a big supporter of ebikes now after hiring some @ Karon beach and using them between there and Phuket.My fitness at the time was pretty poor.

They were Kalkhoff ebikes chain driven from bottom bracket.


----------



## AnneW (25 Oct 2016)

3narf said:


> But you can't _really_ say you're going out cycling, either, can you?



Yes, I can.

I have to pedal all the time - if I don't pedal, I will fall off, just like any bike. 

I have different levels of assistance available on my e-bike, including none at all. I can chose whichever setting I need. I still have to put effort in, and I make sure that I do. I still get hot and out of breath (and not just because I'm a podge ). That's my choice, because I want to get fitter.

Others may choose to pootle, but they're still cycling.


----------



## Sheffield_Tiger (2 Nov 2016)

Our last customer was diabetic and elderly. He had a glucose crash in the shop and collapsed whilst he was looking. He bought a folding bike, the roodog bliss and he loves it. He got one of the last ones with the twist and go. He can ride again, anybody want to call him a cheat?


----------



## DEFENDER01 (3 Nov 2016)

Sheffield_Tiger said:


> Our last customer was diabetic and elderly. He had a glucose crash in the shop and collapsed whilst he was looking. He bought a folding bike, the roodog bliss and he loves it. He got one of the last ones with the twist and go. He can ride again, anybody want to call him a cheat?


Twist and go is the best way to go.


----------



## Salar (3 Nov 2016)

I don't see the need to justify e bikes. I'm all for them if it gets you out.

I've pondered about fitting a kit to one of my bikes for a few years.

There was some dodgy kits around a few years ago, but thankfully they seem to have disappeared from the market.

Cyclotricity kit looks good, but the costs do mount up when compared to buying one of their bikes.

If it could be done for around £300 max or so all in including replacement wheel I'd consider it, but at the moment it still seems pricey. EBC seem to be the cheapest at £400.00
That is unless you know something different and it's legal


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> I don't see the need to justify e bikes. I'm all for them if it gets you out.
> 
> I've pondered about fitting a kit to one of my bikes for a few years.
> 
> ...



What you want is a large Chinese supplier with a silly name, Blue My Sky, or BMS for short.

Motor kits from about $125.

https://bmsbattery.com/19-ebike-conversion-kit?orderby=price&orderway=desc&orderway=desc&p=3

Batteries under $200.

https://bmsbattery.com/19-ebike-conversion-kit?orderby=price&orderway=desc&orderway=desc&p=3

Adding a bit of shipping and duty you may - or may not - have to pay should give a total bill of under £300.


----------



## Salar (3 Nov 2016)

Thanks, that's great @Pale Rider, really helpful.

A to B online mag doesn't rate the Chinese stuff, but I reckon that's where most of it comes from anyway, apart from the expensive German gear.

I've no problem dealing with Chinese suppliers, I've sold and bought stuff on ebay and always found the Chinese helpful.

Under £300 sounds good, that's more than the bikes I want to fit too are worth. 

Now you've got me thinking.


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Nov 2016)

A lot of the cheap Chinese ebikes have electrical niggles, but that's often more to do with shoddy assembly than shoddy components.

For example, poorly fitted batteries which 'worry' on their terminals and burn them out.

If you build the bike to a good standard it should be reasonably reliable.


----------



## Salar (3 Nov 2016)

There seems to be a few on ebay too.

What do most people go for front or rear drive.

I would have thought front wheel drive would make the handling heavy, but I'm new to this so I could be talking nonsense.

I'm thinking of fitting it to one of my old steel frame hybrids.


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Nov 2016)

I don't think front or rear wheel motor makes a huge difference to the ride.

Crank drives - motor bolted to the bottom bracket - do ride more like ordinary bicycles.

Going back to hubs, power delivery - controlled by the, er, controller - has a bigger impact on the ride.

Nearly all use simple rotational sensors, which can feel a bit basic.

If you want to pay a bit more, you could get a torque sensing, or torque simulating, controller, which means the motor will respond in part to the input from your legs, giving a more natural feel.

As always, there's a danger of becoming too anal about it.

Many users are perfectly happy with their basic rotational sensor ebikes.


----------



## raleighnut (3 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> There seems to be a few on ebay too.
> 
> What do most people go for front or rear drive.
> 
> ...


I use a front drive kit on the Trike (as does Maz on her Dawes) both of which are 'Hall Effect' motors (3 phase) and the power doesn't come in with a bang but has almost a 'soft start' take-up.

Bit of a shame really, I'd love the trike to spin it's front wheel.

BTW both kits are Cyclotricity 250w and have been 'fault-free' for over 2yrs (over 3yrs for Maz's)


----------



## Salar (4 Nov 2016)

Thanks @Pale Rider , @raleighnut

Basic and simple for me, I only need it for a bit of help on a few long climbs.

Although I fancied fitting the kit to one of my hybrids the ideal candidate would be my runabout ,Dawes Jack folder, but I need to check what would happen to cables and the other bits when folded etc


----------



## Pale Rider (4 Nov 2016)

The smaller wheel of the folder will limit your motor choice a bit, but that's no bad thing because there are far too many to choose from for big wheels.

Spoke breakages can be a problem in any motor wheel.

Once again it comes down to build, some of the Chinese factory built wheels are not built well.

It makes sense to stress relieve and evenly tension the spokes on the motor wheel before installing it.

Lastly, if you go for a front wheel consider fitting a torque arm - a plate which prevents the wheel spinning out of the dropout under load.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2626...=1006948&device=c&campaignid=620865095&crdt=0


----------



## Salar (4 Nov 2016)

Thanks again.

I've decided it will be the folder, it's the most modern bike I have which does not have disc or hydraulic brakes and already has a rear rack.

Front wheel drive seems to be the simpler and best option, not much space at the rear, might be fiddly needing to spread drop outs and re align gears and I'd like to leave the wheel and gears as they are.

I'd rather not spend too much on the older hybrids anyway, good tip about torque arm.


----------



## Salar (4 Nov 2016)

Just been googling.

Most folders seem to be rear wheel drive, putting all the weight on the back. I find even now without any weight on the back the folder tries to wheelie when pushed, probably just my wrong riding position!

Back to work.

Just checked the shipping costs from China £85-£100!


----------



## Pale Rider (4 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Just checked the shipping costs from China £85-£100!



Full kit here from UK supplier Panda for £380 shipped.

http://www.pandaebikes.com/product/...50w-ebike-conversion-kit-li-ion-10ah-battery/


----------



## Salar (4 Nov 2016)

Yes,

I like the look of them, one good thing is the pedal assist ring is split in two halves so no need to remove cranks etc.
I need to check if they are ok for 80mm drop outs, most seem to be for 100mm, although pedalease do an 80mm drop out version (my Dawes is a rebadged Dahon)


----------



## Velow (4 Nov 2016)

With the onset of some back problems and my kids starting to get quicker than me I'm seriously considering an e-bike. This is very tempting...albeit scary
http://www.greyp.com/


----------



## Pale Rider (4 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Yes,
> 
> I like the look of them, one good thing is the pedal assist ring is split in two haves so no need to remove cranks etc.
> I need to check if they are ok for 80mm drop outs, most seem to be for 100mm, although pedalease do an 80mm drop out version (my Dawes is a rebadged Dahon)



Not checking this sort of stuff leads to bodging and unreliability.

Seems you are well on top of it, which should mean a decent build.


----------



## shouldbeinbed (4 Nov 2016)

velow.bike said:


> With the onset of some back problems and my kids starting to get quicker than me I'm seriously considering an e-bike. This is very tempting...albeit scary
> http://www.greyp.com/


The specs sound good but it is one fugly bike IMHO


----------



## keithmac (5 Nov 2016)

My Gtech is rear hub drive, almost silent and really helps with the winnd and hills mainly.

I also have converted a mountain bike to crank drive paired with a Nuvinci rear hub but haven't had time to do any real testing with that yet. Used a TSDZ2 for that build.


----------



## welsh dragon (5 Nov 2016)

keithmac said:


> My Gtech is rear hub drive, almost silent and really helps with the winnd and hills mainly.
> 
> I also have converted a mountain bike to crank drive paired with a Nuvinci rear hub but haven't had time to do any real testing with that yet. Used a TSDZ2 for that build.




Are you still enjoying your Gtech?


----------



## Salar (5 Nov 2016)

Regarding the kits, Up to now I've only found one supplier who does a motor to fit 80mm front drop outs, the rest are 100mm.

So if you have a Dawes, Dahon or Brompton make sure you check, no problem with rear dropouts most are 130-135mm, just more difficult to find 20" rear wheels with motors.

Still undecided to go for front or rear motor, what's available, ease of fitting and just get on with it might decide for me.

I've never ridden an e bike so not sure what to expect.

I would have thought a front motor on a 20" wheel folder might make the steering slightly heavy and do strange things when cornering.

And a rear motor, all that weight on the back, should give good grip on loose stuff.


----------



## keithmac (5 Nov 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> Are you still enjoying your Gtech?



Yeh, got nearly 500 miles of commuting on it now and it hasn't missed a beat.

Very happy with it!.


----------



## Pale Rider (5 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> I've never ridden an e bike so not sure what to expect.
> 
> I would have thought a front motor on a 20" wheel folder might make the steering slightly heavy and do strange things when cornering.
> 
> And a rear motor, all that weight on the back, should give good grip on loose stuff.



A legal motor of the type you are thinking of is a lot less powerful than many people think.

The assistance is very noticeable, no doubt about that, but on it's own the motor won't pull you up much of a hill.

Wheel spin with a front motor is not really a problem, although on a stiff climb I find it hard to get my weight forward, quite the reverse, I tend to yank back on the bars.

A front motor might 'skip' briefly in that scenario, but it hasn't got enough grunt to spin like a burn out.

I reckon most folders have a shorter wheel base and the rider tends to sit further back which doesn't help.

It's unlikely you will notice much difference in steering feel, certainly not enough to make the bike in any way difficult to control.


----------



## Velow (9 Nov 2016)

shouldbeinbed said:


> The specs sound good but it is one fugly bike IMHO


More motorbike than bike on first looks


----------



## Salar (9 Nov 2016)

Mmm,

Perhaps I'm being impatient?

I sent out emails last Thursday / Friday to kit suppliers as it doesn't seem to be that you can speak to them on the phone.

Out of the bunch only one replied.

Makes you wonder what their after sales is like if something goes wrong.


----------



## Phil Fouracre (13 Nov 2016)

Looks like I was right in my original post, there is justification for lecci bikes :-) Just come back to this post and glanced at some of the comments. Having fitted four conversions now I have a couple of thoughts that might be useful. Pale rider is right, in that none are what I would call 'powerful', but, then you probably fit them for 'assistance'. I found fitting front wheel kits worked well and actually helped handling, probably because you then have an 'all wheel drive effect'. Certainly better on corners, if surface is poor. 
Re: torq arms - I would say an absolute must, especially on front kits on bikes without beefed up forks, learnt a lesson on Thorn Tours, when the drop outs appeared to 'spread'!! 
Put larger, rear kits on full suss mountain bikes, and on these, rear is the way to go, mainly for traction.
As far as backup goes, there is no reason for this not being available. I've dealt with Cyclotricity throughout, and, they have been very good. They seem to have struggled with demand more recently, and hopefully service won't deteriorate!


----------



## MarkF (18 Nov 2016)

After my E-Bike ownership of last year, I decide they just didn't make sense for me in any way. I have an arduous commute plus an arduous job, often I just don't want to cycle, I am too tired.

The electric bikes that I desire are £k's, like anything I want something that looks good, otherwise I don't get pleasure from it or look after it, I am not riding something that Mary Poppins would. Then there are the residual values, technology is moving so fast, in a minor demand market. Then there is the speed..........

I bought a 125cc bike instead.


----------



## voyager (19 Nov 2016)

We have been using home built electric trikes with 37v and q100 motors for the past 30 months . great fun and practical .


----------



## mustang1 (19 Nov 2016)

It seems less people are anti e-bike these days than they were just a couple of years ago. I wouldn't mind an e-bike if my commutes became much longer.

The only problem I see formyself is my normal bike keeps me reasonably fit and if I ever done any less exercise, I would balloon out. And an e-bike is dippo tempting to ride given the choice. 

Generally I'm all up for them. Saw one just yesterday, couldn't keep up with the bugger.


----------



## Mrs M (19 Nov 2016)

We were in Edinburgh Bikes yesterday having Mr M's bike tweaked.
Had a look round the shop as the mechanic worked away.
Showed Mr M the electric bikes and he thought they were great, even said good idea for when we're older


----------



## Salar (22 Nov 2016)

Well,

After almost three weeks since I sent out emails to the conversion kit companies, only one company replied to my questions. 
As they don't list their phone numbers emails seem to be the only way to contact them.

I've given up investing £500+ plus with these companies, so I won't be going down the conversion route, but I'll possibly keep an eye on fully built bikes in the future instead.


----------



## Phil Fouracre (22 Nov 2016)

It's a shame you've had no luck. The great advantage of retrofit kits is being able to choose the best bike for the job. We've now got tourers and full suss mtbs, all bases covered!


----------



## raleighnut (22 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Well,
> 
> After almost three weeks since I sent out emails to the conversion kit companies, only one company replied to my questions.
> As they don't list their phone numbers emails seem to be the only way to contact them.
> ...


I've got 2 of these kits, if you scroll down to the bottom there is a telephone number.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...rator/&usg=AFQjCNGTR083F6l92KZacE-veHmfcl9EWg

BTW both kits over 2yrs trouble free.


----------



## Salar (23 Nov 2016)

Thanks @raleighnut 

Perhaps you've changed my mind (again)!

I might well give them a call, although their website is very comprehensive. 

One of the problems I was having was finding a front wheel motor to fit the narrow drop out on my Dawes folder,I did find one supplier but I can install rear anyway if push comes to shove.

I'm starting to think it might be best to fit the motor to one of my other stronger bikes which are not folders and don't have hydraulic brakes. 

Ones my old Pioneer, the other is my 1980's steel framed Rockhopper Comp, currently being set up for short tours. Frames are ok, but it seems a lot to spend on thirty year old bikes!


----------



## raleighnut (23 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Thanks @raleighnut
> 
> Perhaps you've changed my mind (again)!
> 
> ...


The kit can be removed and put onto another bike with the same size wheels whilst the first bike can be returned to standard, it is only a bolt on so there are no frame mods needed.

A steel framed MTB/Hybrid (with steel forks) is perfect for conversion.


----------



## Phil Fouracre (23 Nov 2016)

Yup, these are the kits I used, for the same reason, you can easily swap the kits to a different bike. They do offer the option of buying just the motor and respoking your own wheel to suit. Even though the wheels on our bikes were nominally different sizes I've kept them complete, just in case!
Re; Cyclotricity, they reply pretty quickly to email, but, don't bother phoning, complete waste of time.


----------



## Salar (23 Nov 2016)

Thanks Both,

As the wheels are standard on the steel frame bikes I did expect / consider removal and fitting on something else in the future.

I think the bike to convert will be the Pioneer, I'd like to keep the Rockhopper as standard as possible, although it's a solid bike more suited to my weight!.

Maybe an early Christmas present then, courtesy of my plastic friend.


----------



## voyager (23 Nov 2016)

Here are a pair of small wheel e-bikes we built a couple of years ago , both still running okay but the e-shopper frame ( 30 years old )is starting to weaken , currently it has done over 4000 miles in the last 2 years , motor and controller still doing well but the throttle has been changed twice and this week the chain broke ,it is now using slime tubes and marathon tyres .

The single speed BMX is still OK but it only doubles as a reserve machine .


https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-folding-e-shopper.166954/

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-electric-bmx-conversion-the-build-blog.187808/#post-3911019

BMS of china make a good setup but the problem is carriage to the UK ( q100 motor )


----------



## Pleiades (3 Jan 2017)

The Cyclotricity thing sounds intriguing but being totally non-technically minded I could never fit such a device myself! Do you think a LBS could do it?

I have 2 candidate bikes: A GT i-Drive 2.0 full sus (16 years old so the only things original are frame and front sus). This is actually a comfy road bike (with semi-slicks now) as it soaks up all the enormous potholes around here with ease and isn't too heavy; the clever i-Drive seems to do its job in making sure energy isn't wasted bouncing around too much.

The other newer bike is a 13 Intuitive Gamma from Halfords - a Shimano Alfine (hub geared) hybrid.

Both are quite heavy enough to begin with (tho it doesn't bother me) so adding all that extra weight is a concern (if it's do-able in the first place)...

Any ideas as to the possibilities? Cheers!


----------



## raleighnut (3 Jan 2017)

Pleiades said:


> The Cyclotricity thing sounds intriguing but being totally non-technically minded I could never fit such a device myself! Do you think a LBS could do it?
> 
> I have 2 candidate bikes: A GT i-Drive 2.0 full sus (16 years old so the only things original are frame and front sus). This is actually a comfy road bike (with semi-slicks now) as it soaks up all the enormous potholes around here with ease and isn't too heavy; the clever i-Drive seems to do its job in making sure energy isn't wasted bouncing around too much.
> 
> ...


Suspension and electric kits, not a good idea unless you opt for a crank drive and I wouldn't fit a front kit to a bike with a carbon/aluminium fork.

Ideal bikes to convert are rigid MTBs or Hybrids with a CrMo fork.


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Jan 2017)

To expand a bit on what @raleighnut says, mounting a battery is the problem with a full sus because there's not enough room in the triangle and rear carrier doesn't work well with the suspension.

If you can somehow solve the battery mount problem, a crank kit is not an option on the GT due to the i-Drive.

Which leaves hub motors.

A rear could be done, but may limit your cassette options.

Some people do fit front motors to suspension forks, but the drop outs need to be meaty, and you would need to tether the motor to the fork legs with torque arms.

It should be possible to fit a crank kit on the 13 bike.

A rear motor is not possible due to the hub gear.

Front motors in carbon forks are an absolute no-no.

It looks like the 13 bike has those, so the only option is a crank kit.


----------



## Pleiades (3 Jan 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> To expand a bit on what @raleighnut says, mounting a battery is the problem with a full sus because there's not enough room in the triangle and rear carrier doesn't work well with the suspension.
> 
> If you can somehow solve the battery mount problem, a crank kit is not an option on the GT due to the i-Drive.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, very helpful!


----------



## Pleiades (3 Jan 2017)

raleighnut said:


> Suspension and electric kits, not a good idea unless you opt for a crank drive and I wouldn't fit a front kit to a bike with a carbon/aluminium fork.
> 
> Ideal bikes to convert are rigid MTBs or Hybrids with a CrMo fork.



Thanks for info. I googled crank drive and one of the results was this: https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/ which showed some nice full-suss bikes with the mod. Seems like they have a lot of downside though...


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Jan 2017)

Pleiades said:


> Thanks for info. I googled crank drive and one of the results was this: https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/ which showed some nice full-suss bikes with the mod. Seems like they have a lot of downside though...



Worth bearing in mind that site is aimed at those wanting bikes that are far more powerful than is legal in the UK, so some of the advice doesn't apply.

For example, changing gear on a legal crank drive motor is no trouble at all.

Either a hub or crank will do the job.

Cranks other a more authentic cycling experience in that you go up and down the gears just like an ordinary bike, you have to because there's not enough poke to do otherwise.

The power (such as it is) delivery from a hub motor can feel disconnected from the riding of the bike.


----------



## Pleiades (3 Jan 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Worth bearing in mind that site is aimed at those wanting bikes that are far more powerful than is legal in the UK, so some of the advice doesn't apply.
> 
> For example, changing gear on a legal crank drive motor is no trouble at all.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Dang it, I'd prefer to try a crank on the full-sus but as you say, the i-Drive is the obstacle.

PS I hadn't realised how many vendors there are! This must be a growing market, not just a niche? I know it's really taken off in China, unsurprisingly... pity they embraced the 'great car culture' of the US - now they have the longest traffic jams and worst smog in the world :-(

I remember those old films showing thousands upon thousands of Chinese workers on bicycles, which we thought was a sign of a backward society...


----------



## Pale Rider (3 Jan 2017)

Some stories in China of ebikes being banned in cities because there are so many of them.

They are dreadful contraptions, so I'm told, with heavy lead acid batteries, but the bikes are very cheap and commonly sold in supermarkets.

Ebikes in the UK are still very much a niche product, although it's not so unusual for me to see another one on my travels now which it would have been five years ago.

As regards vendors, BMS battery is one of the most reliable suppliers from China, and they have a large range of kits and components.

https://bmsbattery.com/


----------



## MrGrumpy (3 Jan 2017)

Had a conversation with my 78yr old father on an ebike for him, rides every day more or less on his hybrid taking the dog for a run currently . Still manages but this I can see as an option for him pretty soon. Not quite as nimble as he used to be !


----------



## Pleiades (3 Jan 2017)

Pale Rider said:


> Some stories in China of ebikes being banned in cities because there are so many of them.
> 
> They are dreadful contraptions, so I'm told, with heavy lead acid batteries, but the bikes are very cheap and commonly sold in supermarkets.
> 
> ...



Now I come to think of it, I remember some of the first Chinese e-bikes that came over in any quantity, must've been over 10-15 years ago? They were pretty awful, and expensive for what they were too. I'm guessing new models are vastly improved LOL...


----------



## welsh dragon (3 Jan 2017)

Pleiades said:


> Now I come to think of it, I remember some of the first Chinese e-bikes that came over in any quantity, must've been over 10-15 years ago? They were pretty awful, and expensive for what they were too. I'm guessing new models are vastly improved LOL...




I think you'll find they are a hell of a lot better. Better made, more stylish,and the batteries last a lot longer.


----------



## voyager (3 Jan 2017)

BMS do have a good reputation my 3 q100 units are well into their third year of use , they are a little sensitive when used with some 3rd party controllers but the lcd controller from panda bikes seems to work with them but that really needs a mod to get the speedo to work properly, I have modified 2 of these with a sensor from a scrap bike speedo.


----------



## aldus (10 Oct 2019)

I know it's getting better in the UK (my partner's in London and she's started looking for them there) but the choice of folding ebikes seems to be much greater here in Germany... many of them with various Bosch mid-engine designs, either with the battery on the seat tube or the down tube, which brings the center of gravity way down and super-controllable. Much less cumbersome.

Just ebikes has three from Hercules — a German company— (https://www.justebikes.co.uk/shop/?swoof=1&pa_frame-type=folding), one of them being an all carbon one... so there ARE some better choices should you decide to go that route.

Good luck!


----------

