# Fazua Evation drive system and Bosch question



## MBosh (3 May 2022)

I was looking maybe to pick up this Boardman e-bike (link below) but I'm not sure if the motor is as good as say the bosch one for my needs. I have to carry the bike up a number of flight of stairs to a flat, so I'm also not sure if the bocsh mid drive motor would be too heavy. Here are the bikes I'm looking at. Does the Boardman have disadvantages, or is there an even better e-bike for the money then the ones I've mentioned? Thank you!

Edit: Just been looking a Befang as a make too and just wondering if they are anygood should I decide to just convert my bike into an e-bike.

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/elec...yb-8.9e-mens-hybrid-electric-bike-133934.html

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/elec...brid-bike---17in-19in-21in-frames-488356.html


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## ColinJ (3 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> I'm not sure if the motor is as good as say the bosch one for my needs.



What _are _your needs? (Assist range? Rack? Mudguards? etc.)

I'm not being funny, but I wouldn't fancy carting a heavy ebike up several flights of stairs and I am fit enough to not need one!

One I liked the look of for a friend was _*this Ribble ebike*_. That is fairly light, at around 13 kg. (PS Only a 250 Wh battery though, so possibly not enough assist range. At least it would be light enough to ride with a flat battery though!)


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## cyberknight (3 May 2022)

ColinJ said:


> I'm not being funny, but I wouldn't fancy carting a heavy ebike up several flights of stairs and I am fit enough to not need one!


Indeed i think you need to weigh up ( haha ) the benefits of the e bike compared to the hassle of lugging it up and down stairs , remember above 15.5 mph the assist cuts out so how much would you use it ?


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

ColinJ said:


> What _are _your needs? (Assist range? Rack? Mudguards? etc.)
> 
> I'm not being funny, but I wouldn't fancy carting a heavy ebike up several flights of stairs and I am fit enough to not need one!
> 
> One I liked the look of for a friend was _*this Ribble ebike*_. That is fairly light, at around 13 kg. (PS Only a 250 Wh battery though, so possibly not enough assist range. At least it would be light enough to ride with a flat battery though!)



It's just for leisure, really. I had my knee cap removed due to smashing it some years ago. Although I can ride a bike, no problem, my knee starts to hurt after about 5 miles of riding. I want to cover about 20 miles during a ride which would be mostly flat ground. Don't need a bike rack or anything, just want to cover about 60 miles each week.

Do you think that Boardman would still be heavy to carry up a few flights of stairs without the battery removed first? Thank you!

@cyberknight - I can only get upto a constant speed of about 14mph, but my knee hurts after about 5 miles due to the pressure placed on it


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## ColinJ (3 May 2022)

Ah, yes - I can see why an ebike would be handy!

Does you knee still hurt even if you use very low gears?

I suppose the Boardman minus the battery would be as light as or lighter than the Ribble with its built-in (harder to remove) battery. 

I just remember trying to cart my mountain bike upstairs once and that was awkward. (It weighs about 13-14 kg.) I suppose it would be a bit easier on a wider staircase.


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## cyberknight (3 May 2022)

what about a normal bike with a swytch kit ? take the battery off to carry it up and down the stairs .


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

@ColinJ - No, my knee doesn't hurt so much in lower gears, it's when I try to go faster using the higher gears. That's when it adds more pressure on my knee and starts to hurt. I'm also always mostly doing 14 mph on my journey, so it's under the 15mph cut out.


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

cyberknight said:


> what about a normal bike with a swytch kit ? take the battery off to carry it up and down the stairs .



I think that Boardman I linked to does that, doesn't it? Battery comes off and can be ridden like a normal bike with around the same weight if I'm not mistken. Is this what you mean by a switch kit as I'm not sure? I'm also a bit weary spending that amount of money on this Boardman, if the battery and motor aren't that good. Do you know if this is quite a good motor and battery? Thank You!


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## ColinJ (3 May 2022)

The Swytch kit converts a normal bike. You get a new front wheel with a motor in and a controller and battery which mount on the handlebars. You can get the kits for about £500 - _*HERE*_. (The full price is double that but join the queue and get it 50% off!)


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

@ColinJ @cyberknight
I'm impressed with this swytch kit. Does it use pedal assist or a throttle switch? I wonder if if they come in different size wheels. I'd prefer the battery to be fitted somewhere else though and not on the handle bars, I wonder if that's possible.


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## CXRAndy (3 May 2022)

If you're practical, then converting a suitable donor bike is great fun. I converted my wife's bike to a Tongscheng TSDZ2 setup. It works just fine. I have a Bafang mid drive motor setup, again fantastic piece of kit. The most refined are the Bosch, but you pay quite a premium. 

Re pain, try a use an easier gear and pedal a little bit faster, generally called 'spinning'. This can help knee issues-but in your case with surgery already taken place you will need to experiment to see if its the method to use. Also check you saddle isnt too low, this can be a common setup error leading to frontal knee discomfort

Here is my wife's E bike conversion thread https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/ebike-conversion.251127/


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## ColinJ (3 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> @ColinJ @cyberknight
> I'm impressed with this swytch kit. Does it use pedal assist or a throttle switch? I wonder if if they come in different size wheels. I'd prefer the battery to be fitted somwhere else though and not on the handle bars, I wonder if that's possible.


It has a detector which fits round the bottom bracket axle and detects how you are pedalling. It then gives a selected amount of boost to that effort, ranging from not much, to quite a lot. 

I think that you can get a throttle as well? PS I just checked - they do 2 types - twist and thumb throttles. You can also buy spare batteries to extend your range.

Swytch take orders for different size wheels and then have a batch built. That's how you get the kit cheaper, but there is a significant delay before you get the kit. You would have to contact them to see how long that delay is. They usually have a stock of different sized kits but then you pay double the price.

The bag with the battery in also has the displays and controls on it so putting it elsewhere wouldn't make a lot of sense, even if you could do it.


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

@CXRAndy - That looks neat. I did look at the Befang motor and building an e-bike out of an older bike I have. The peoblem I've got is I have to carry the bike up 4 flights of stairs, which really does limit me to what e-bike I could go for.


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

@ColinJ - Do you think the swytch would be better than the boardman I listed? The kit on the Boardman only adds an extra 4.6kg to the bike, but I'm not sure how much the bike weights itself. I currently have a Giant defy road bike that I get up these stair quite easily.


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## MBosh (3 May 2022)

Just seen a Youtube video on the boardman bike and a guy is saying it's not a full on electric bike and only helps you up hills? Not sure what he's talking about if I'm honest. How can it be just an electric bike that helps you up hills and not a full on electric bike?


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## cyberknight (3 May 2022)

I am going to step out of the chat, it does seem you would benefit from an e bike and the battery on the boardman is removable which would make it easier to cart up and down stairs if you have too .I dont know much about e bikes so i wish you luck in getting what you need .


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## ColinJ (3 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> Just seen a Youtube video on the boardman bike and a guy is saying it's not a full on electric bike and only helps you up hills? Not sure what he's talking about if I'm honest. How can it be just an electric bike that helps you up hills and not a full on electric bike?



Pretty much _any _ebike will do what you want it to do (not very far, not very fast, no huge hills!)... The main question seems to be about getting it up and down the stairs.

The Boardman weighs 15.5 kg, but according to a _*review*_ that I just read, 3.6 kg of that can be quickly removed (battery and motor - gears to bottom bracket stay in bike). Just under 12 kg probably wouldn't be too bad compared to the Giant Defy, depending on which version you have?


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## richtea (4 May 2022)

We have a Boardman and an Orbea (ebikemotion system like the Ribble). Both work on the flat too - not just up hills.

The Boardman is well made, the battery+motor is removable, and with the battery removed it's not noticeably heavier than your average bike - maybe an extra 1kg. Adding the battery+motor is noticeable if you're lifting up at an awkward angle or away from the body (force * distance and all that) so into a car, onto a roofrack, etc needs care and some strength. However, up stairs the lifting should be quite straightforward.

The ebikemotion-based bikes (Ribble, Orbea, Lapierre, etc) are also good quality, and slightly lighter (maybe 1kg less without spending a fortune on carbon), but you can't remove the battery.

The only word of caution against both of these is if your ride has properly steep hills (1-in-8 or steeper) then you'll still need to put a significant effort in = likely knee pain. I believe the Bosch-based bikes will work better up steep hills (more peak power?).

I haven't tried a Swytch, but for casual cycling, it looks like a simple and affordable system, with the limitation being the front wheel drive and the front-loaded weight (both battery and motor).

In terms of outlay you're paying something like £1200 extra over an equivalent non-ebike for the Boardman, Bosch & ebikemotion bikes - but you are getting a whole new bike of course. Selling your existing bike can soften the blow a little.
I wouldn't pay £1000 for the Swytch - that's just a headline price, not a realistic one, but £500 is tempting if you're not in a rush, especially if you're happy with your existing bike.

[Edit: I should say, both the Boardman and ebikemotion are game changers in terms of enjoying riding again, even though some people rubbish them for being lower power motors with smaller batteries. They give enough power in most situations, and plenty enough for 20 miles even at full power, which I doubt you'll need.]


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## gzoom (4 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> Just seen a Youtube video on the boardman bike and a guy is saying it's not a full on electric bike and only helps you up hills?



Not everything on YouTube is factual.

My Boardman is now over 2 years old, am doing 150-200 miles a month commuting on it. A while back I did LEJOG on a normal carbon Trek roadbike, and used various Carerra hybrid bike before. 

The Fazua motor in the Boardman moves the game on though, it turns the bike into a proper car replacement. Conversions are fine, but the 'factory' built option for me is just more appealing. I love it, I've not been out on my unassisted road bike for 12 months now!!

I carry mine up one set of stairs everyday at work. The bike is just over 15kg on the scales without pedals, but with mudguards, D lock, lights etc its closer to 20kg. One armed carrying is OK, but two is sometimes needed.


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## CXRAndy (5 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> Just seen a Youtube video on the boardman bike and a guy is saying it's not a full on electric bike and only helps you up hills? Not sure what he's talking about if I'm honest. How can it be just an electric bike that helps you up hills and not a full on electric bike?



A bit misleading that. All ebikes can help on any terrain if you're under the cutoff speed. 

Re carrying bike upstairs. All ebikes from high end models to conversion setups weigh significantly more than a standard pushbike. Motors weigh around 3-5kg, batteries 5-7kg. Expect any ebike to weigh 20kg or more upto 35kg for the beefy mtb tourer version


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## youngoldbloke (5 May 2022)

Many e-road bikes weigh well under 20Kg! My alloy Tiagra equipped Orbea Gain weighs around 16kg ready for the road - bottle, tools etc. If you have deeper pockets a carbon framed better specced bike like a Ribble SLe will be around 2 -3 kg less, and the new (expensive!) Mahle X20 offerings from Wilier and Scott are even lighter., so heading down towards the 10 - 11kg level.


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## richtea (5 May 2022)

Youngoldbloke is quite right. If you are happy with the legal max of 250W and a relatively small battery (to give say 30 miles full power, 50-ish miles half power) then 15Kg is possible for under £2.5k.


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## MBosh (10 May 2022)

Thanks for all the replies, but I have just hit on a bike that has great reviews and for the price it looks good. Even has a carbon belt instead of a chain. The battery is built into the frame, but it's still removable if need be according to some reviews.

https://www.tenways.com/products/cgo600


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## youngoldbloke (10 May 2022)

MBosh said:


> Thanks for all the replies, but I have just hit on a bike that has great reviews and for the price it looks good. Even has a carbon belt instead of a chain. The battery is built into the frame, but it's still removable if need be according to some reviews.
> 
> https://www.tenways.com/products/cgo600



I hadn't realised you wanted a single speed bike. Has good reviews - as an urban bike. The battery is removeable, but you wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis! After you've fitted pedals, saddle- pack, bottle cage etc it will be over 16kg.


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