# Questionable experience on a group ride



## Archeress (20 Jun 2016)

Some of you will know that I have had some very severe depression with a tendancy towards self harm in the last couple of months. Well I found a charity that runs group rides for people experiencing mental health difficulties. The rides are led and are varying lengths to accomodate different abilities.

Yesterday there was a ride round Bristol to view art works that are in the public realm and to learn a little about them. It was published as a 10 mile ride taking 5 hours.

The first questionable experience was right at the start when it was announced that there would be a picnic in a park. This hadn't been in the published ride details and I wasn't alone in having little food with me, but money to pay for food. I had taken a banana and a little box of dried fruit.

The next questionable experience requires a little more of my background... I am transgendered. I live now as a woman and had all my surgery etc in 2010 and have held a female birth certificate and a gender recognition certificate since late 2010. Well the ride leader and the art expert both misgendered me during the ride, even to the embaressment of a fellow client rider. And these were not the subtle him/he misgendering, one was a full blown "gentleman" and another was calling me a MAMIL (which when challenged the person admitted he hadn't understood the full meaning of the term). Now surely a ride leader in charge of a ride with people with mental health problems should be more aware of the things they say and do? Also should he throw terms around that he does not understand?

And finally the ride was getting close to the published end time and my fiance would start to worry if I was late and the ride leader started talking about visiting a cafe for coffee and cake. When I looked worried, I was told that if I hadn't the time I could make my own way home. At this point I was in a part of Bristol that I did not know and would not be able to find my way home. The ride leader started reeling off a long set of directions to which I wouldn't have remembered half of them due to my mental health restricting my memory powers. Eventually the ride leader decided that the group should make their way back to the start point and then those that wanted could then go for coffee and cake.

All in all, although I saw some nice pieces of art the ride was spoiled for me and actually served as a stressor rather than the intended calming influence cycling should have.

Have I overthought all of this or does it really sound a terrible experience from a charity aiming to help people with mental health issues?

Archeress


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## Racing roadkill (20 Jun 2016)

Nope, I had to undertake an inclusivity, and diversity bit, on my BC ride leaders course. The crux of it, is that you have to choose your words vey carefully, and be sympathetic towards everybody on the ride's needs. It puts the onus on making the group ride as stress less as possible, for the participants, even if it entails walking on eggshells, as a leader. That's what we are paid for, after all. It sounds like the leadership, wasn't properly trained, for a diverse group, on your ride.


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## mickle (20 Jun 2016)

I think it would be a productive exercise all round to raise these issues with the folks responsible for organising and delivering the ride. The change of itinerary and the abandoning you in a strange part of Bristol sound like the product of a - probably well meaning but slightly shambolic organisation. These are basic things to get right when trying to support vulnerable people. 

The gender thing? I'm sure you'll not be the first transgender woman to have experienced this sort of insensitivity. People do make mistakes, and there are lots of people out there who, even with the best intentions are won't to 'put their foot in it'. Not because they are malicious, but through inexperience and ineptitude. Your best defence against this I think ts to brief people beforehand. Tell the organisers who you are, how you prefer to be introduced and addressed when within the group. Give people the opportunity to do the right thing and they usually will, sometimes things just need to be spelled out. 

Sorry you had this experience. It must have been humiliating for you, but don't let it put you off art, or cycling! :-)


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## Apollonius (20 Jun 2016)

Just goes to show that ride leadership (like any leadership) is not easy. Sorry you had a bad experience, but give the leader some slack. I don't suppose they meant any harm, just didn't realise.


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## Dave 123 (20 Jun 2016)

Both I'd say.
You may well have over thought it, but that's not really a problem. That's just how you work.

Was the ride led by the leader alone or were there helpers too?

In my kayak coaching days I'd run a 1* course and the maximum number of students would be 12. I. Would have one other qualified coach and at least 2 helpers who were proficient paddlers, they were qualified coaches sometimes.

The roles were

Lead coach- directed the course, set the pace, split the numbers down and help individuals. Keep an eye to who needed the extra help.

2nd coach- small group and 1:1 coaching

Helpers- there to hand hold the less confident people/slower learners.

So when it is split down the ratio was 3:1

When leading stuff like this you never know who will turn up. An average course would be 3 total naturals, half a dozen above/below average, 2 that needed extra help and 1 that kayaking was a bad idea. It's an awful lot to balance!

So were there enough staff?
How experienced was the leader?( could have been first time out?)
Sometimes as a coach you need to be dynamic and scrap the lot as its not going to plan or change things. That's ok, so long as you bring everyone back that you took out!


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## summerdays (20 Jun 2016)

You could try feeding back to them.... Or if you fancy giving it a second go, I might be tempted not to tell them myself and see if it felt better the next time (that's a personal decision, for me I would probably not want to be on a ride having them go.... "That's the one that complained...." but I know a mate of mine would be saying the opposite... "How's it going to improve if you don't say anything").

It might be different people next time?

As for getting lost, that is a little scary but if you have a smart phone could you have an emergency get out by using google maps to give you biking directions? I've been experimenting with it recently and it's not perfect but equally not completely awful! (That's not to say they should leave you somewhere you don't know but to make you feel a little more in control of the situation if you wanted to leave a ride in the middle of it if you tried again).

I guess I'm saying did you enjoy parts of it enough to want to go again if the leaders were better? Some of the suggestions up the thread are good, such as talking to them beforehand about how you would like to be referred to, but it does sound a little disorganised.


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## Pat "5mph" (20 Jun 2016)

Hi Archeress!
Sorry you had this bad experience.
I think you should give feedback to the leader's line managers at the charity.
I was a leader on a similar ride, but was not briefed at all about the mental health problems of the participants!
Previously I had done only family rides for this organization, so I didn't know this group at all, I have no training in mental health, still they let me lead the ride!

Mind, I would never leave anyone in unfamiliar places, you are right to feel uncomfortable with this.
Also, I think advertised rides should follow the published schedule, you are right again about wanting to be back in time, this is another thing you could mention to the charity.
It's not complaining, it's giving constructive feedback 
The gender thing could have been a genuine oversight: still, for your own comfort, next time in a new group introduce yourself with your female name and say no more. You are who you are now, what was before does not need to be known by all ... imo.
At least you enjoyed the cultural side.


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## fossyant (20 Jun 2016)

Thing is, you always take riders back to the start, and then decide if coffee etc is acceptable. You can't leave riders in unfamiliar areas.

I would complain that you weren't happy with the leaders attitudes. It does need addressing. I've been on 'ride to work' days where one leader thinks he can ride super fast - he was a right 'strange one' and when some of us "lycra louts" told him to slow down for the others, he wasn't impressed. He was in 'civvies'.

I used to lead a few 'bike to work days' and it's a case of constantly looking after everyone. You never make comments about people. EVER !


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## Archeress (20 Jun 2016)

Thank you all, I think I will give it another go. Their next ride is to Weston-super-Mare one way. The ride leader is the same as yesterday. I hadn't told anyone at the charity or on the ride that I was transgendered, just my name.

Archeress


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## Pat "5mph" (20 Jun 2016)

Archeress said:


> Thank you all, I think I will give it another go. Their next ride is to Weston-super-Mare one way. The ride leader is the same as yesterday. I hadn't told anyone at the charity or on the ride that I was transgendered, just my name.
> Archeress


Good for you on not giving up something you enjoy!
I would ask the leader at the beginning if he plans to stick to the schedule, so you know what to expect. If what he says does not suit you, don't be shy in telling him.
If he mistakes you for a man again, ask him when his appointment at specsavers is


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## Banjo (20 Jun 2016)

Glad to hear your giving it another go. I suspect your ride leader has little experience of trans gender people , maybe you can help him to understand.

Leaving people alone in a strange place isn't good and that aspect of your first ride needs addressing even though it didn't actually happen if I read the post correctly..
Good Luck. I hope you have a better experience this time.


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## Black Sheep (20 Jun 2016)

feedback, even when disappointed is helpful for the organisers when it's done with positive intent. 

For example, saying what the issue was but how that issue could become a positive:

say what you did enjoy, but also say you were disappointed with the possible sudden change of plan that nearly left you to make your way home from an area you did not know, coffee and cake after a ride is a great idea but perhaps always done after the ride has gotten back to it's start point giving people the choice to head home or stay as time dictates. 

good to see you giving it another chance.


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## PeteXXX (21 Jun 2016)

Who on earth would leave a woman to find her way back from an 'organised' ride alone? Unacceptable.
A planned ride is a planned ride. Maybe the charity is well meaning but short on understanding. They possibly just found a well meaning ride leader to lead a short ride without him realising how vulnerable his charges may be.
Mention it to the charity by all means, but I think the best approach would be a friendly chat with the ride leader to air your views, clear the air, and enjoy some riding.


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## Globalti (21 Jun 2016)

If you ever get lost, Google Maps will locate your exact position than give you walking, cycling, driving, bus or train directions to a postcode you know. It's excellent, a pal of mine used it to ride from Lancashire to Cornwall for a wedding and back and it took him down some super back routes.


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## Katherine (21 Jun 2016)

Hope you have a better experience on the next one. Well done for getting out!


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## Cubist (21 Jun 2016)

Well done for getting out on the ride in the first place, those of us in the know know how hard it is to make those first steps when you've been as low as you describe. Yes, you may have been over thinking it, but it isn't surprising, we look for confirmation of our first impressions, so the inept stupidity of the leader set that off anyway. 

It astounds me that people in any position need "training" in order to treat people with dignity and respect, so I refuse to make excuses for the ride leader, who should have been even more aware of what some will dismiss as a simple faux pas. Our society needs to learn to dis-embed its prejudices and refusal to accept the harm it does by any form of labeling. Transgender issues aren't exactly mysterious or difficult to deal with, as long as we simply think through and perhaps listen to what people are saying. Introducing yourself should be enough.


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## TheDoctor (21 Jun 2016)

^^That. Leading a ride shouldn't be that tricky. Arrange a start time and place, a finish time and place, tell people what they are and stick to them. It ain't rocket science!


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## jay clock (21 Jun 2016)

Frances@lifecycleuk.org.uk and heather@lifecycleuk.org.uk seem to be the people to email


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## Racing roadkill (21 Jun 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> ^^That. Leading a ride shouldn't be that tricky. Arrange a start time and place, a finish time and place, tell people what they are and stick to them. It ain't rocket science!


You'd be surprised just how many 'banana skins' can wing their way towards you, when you've got all the "ride leader" gubbins on display. Think what is the absolutely ridiculously, unexpected event, that can occur, then multiply by 100. Try 'winging it' with no formal training to fall back on, it won't be pleasant.


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## outlash (21 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> You'd be surprised just how many 'banana skins' can wing their way towards you, when you've got all the "ride leader" gubbins on display. Think what is the absolutely ridiculously, unexpected event, that can occur, then multiply by 100. Try 'winging it' with no formal training to fall back on, it won't be pleasant.



Most club runs seem to manage on any sunday morning without any formal training or having a ride leader sash on.


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## Racing roadkill (21 Jun 2016)

outlash said:


> Most club runs seem to manage on any sunday morning without any formal training or having a ride leader sash on.


That's because club runs are usually full of knobbers, and the reason I rarely bother with 'club rides'.

I've never been on one that wasn't full of cliquey little groups, when you're doing a ride that's open to the public, and you have to be very wary of the mixed abilities, you actually learn how to ride properly, in / with a large group, of varying ability and experience. Not just the same bunch that nearly always ride together.


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## Andrew_P (21 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> That's because club runs are full of knobbers


Yeah I think I can see how you might need some training in how to communicate!


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## Racing roadkill (21 Jun 2016)

Andrew_P said:


> Yeah I think I can see how you might need some training in how to communicate!



I'm very good at communicating with knobbers. It's usually via a raised middle finger.


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## Flying Dodo (21 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> That's because club runs are usually full of knobbers, and the reason I rarely bother with 'club rides'.
> 
> I've never been on one that wasn't full of cliquey little groups, when you're doing a ride that's open to the public, and you have to be very wary of the mixed abilities, you actually learn how to ride properly, in / with a large group, of varying ability and experience. Not just the same bunch that nearly always ride together.




There is an element of truth here. I run Sustrans rides and you do have to be alert not just to the group as a whole, but also how individuals are riding, and if necessary adjust the ride accordingly by going slower or cutting a bit off the route, if people are struggling. It's far easier to run a ride if you know everyone, and their riding ability. 

Sadly, for the ride @Archeress went on, as well as the misgendering issues, it's clear the ride leader had no idea how to run a ride. No-one should be left behind, and it should end where they said it would.


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## Racing roadkill (21 Jun 2016)

Flying Dodo said:


> There is an element of truth here. I run Sustrans rides and you do have to be alert not just to the group as a whole, but also how individuals are riding, and if necessary adjust the ride accordingly by going slower or cutting a bit off the route, if people are struggling. It's far easier to run a ride if you know everyone, and their riding ability.
> 
> Sadly, for the ride @Archeress went on, as well as the misgendering issues, it's clear the ride leader had no idea how to run a ride. No-one should be left behind, and it should end where they said it would.


That's very true. We are given some 'golden rules', the route must be safe, fun, and contain points of interest , risk assessed, has to start and finish where it says on the published route, we mustn't drop anyone, only ride at the pace of the slowest rider. We're encouraged to use the quietest roads we can find, and / or cycle paths, and if it's a looped route, ride it anti - clockwise, to reduce the amount of right turns, across traffic. So far it seems to work well.


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## outlash (21 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> That's because club runs are usually full of knobbers, and the reason I rarely bother with 'club rides'.
> 
> I've never been on one that wasn't full of cliquey little groups, when you're doing a ride that's open to the public, and you have to be very wary of the mixed abilities, you actually learn how to ride properly, in / with a large group, of varying ability and experience. Not just the same bunch that nearly always ride together.



Regardless if it's full of knobbers, or any other group you want to insult, the rules are the same. And as far I'm aware club runs are open to anyone too. 
But do carry on like what you do is something special.


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## Dave Davenport (21 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> That's because club runs are usually full of knobbers



Could you clarify that statement a bit;
What's your definition of a knobber (in this context) and what experience has led you to conclude that club runs are full of them? Also, as club run secretary of my local club, does that make me an extra big knobber?


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## Hill Wimp (21 Jun 2016)

well done for going and for giving it another go. Feedback is the way to go and everything crossed the next ride is a lot better.


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## TheDoctor (22 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> You'd be surprised just how many 'banana skins' can wing their way towards you, when you've got all the "ride leader" gubbins on display. Think what is the absolutely ridiculously, unexpected event, that can occur, then multiply by 100. Try 'winging it' with no formal training to fall back on, it won't be pleasant.


Please don't ever come on one of my rides. No offence meant, but you're coming across as a right nobber.
EDIT - the OP, obviously, would be more than welcome, except I'm nowhere nearby!


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## Racing roadkill (22 Jun 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> Please don't ever come on one of my rides. No offence meant, but you're coming across as a right nobber.


Don't worry, I've got no intention of coming on one of your rides, ever.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (22 Jun 2016)

Maybe I've read it wrong, but it seems to me you were discriminated against and victimised and it was intentional. 

The comments made and the way you were treated by this individual is disgraceful in today's society, imo there is no room for this type of behaviour. 

I'd recommend discussing this with your local LGBT group, plus you may find they run rides or other activities. 

SAY NO TO STIGMA!!!!


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## Cuchilo (22 Jun 2016)

and drugs .


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## Racing roadkill (22 Jun 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> and drugs .


Unless your name is Lance Armstrong.


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## Lee_M (22 Jun 2016)

first rule of leading a ride - no one gets left behind, and no change of route unless unanimous. As for transgender - as a leader it would make no difference to me. Unless the person told me and explained why I should treat them differently from anyone else on the ride they would just be another person to get to the end.

Keep riding, cyclists are generally the friendliest non-judgemental people on the road, although you'll always get dicks in all walks of life!


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## Racing roadkill (22 Jun 2016)

Lee_M said:


> first rule of leading a ride - no one gets left behind, and no change of route unless unanimous. As for transgender - as a leader it would make no difference to me. Unless the person told me and explained why I should treat them differently from anyone else on the ride they would just be another person to get to the end.
> 
> Keep riding, cyclists are generally the friendliest non-judgemental people on the road, although you'll always get dicks in all walks of life!


Very true, except we do get to change the route, without the need for it to be unanimous. If the main ride leader makes a shout on a 'dynamic diversion', that's what happens It can be a bit of a pain if the diversion causes any issues, that lead to a load of form filling, but that's where experience, and route reccy-ing come to the fore.


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Jun 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> You'd be surprised just how many 'banana skins' can wing their way towards you, when you've got all the "ride leader" gubbins on display. Think what is the absolutely ridiculously, unexpected event, that can occur, then multiply by 100. Try 'winging it' with no formal training to fall back on, it won't be pleasant.



That made me laugh: once somebody came at the start with a flat, she said, I hoped you could fix it for me!
The cheek lol, but I did fix it.



Lee_M said:


> no change of route unless unanimous.


Well, sometimes you got to change the route, like the time when ice formed on the paths overnight, or if there's road works, or if the cycle path is shut off for any reason, stuff that happens after the reccie.
Agreed though, the ride leader in the OP was in the wrong.


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## Gravity Aided (23 Jun 2016)

Our local ride leader is a great fellow, does a fine job, and sends out e-mails detailing rides, lengths, and start times.


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## Cubist (23 Jun 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> yuck!


?


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## User16625 (23 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> ?



Something that was mentioned in the 1st post grossed me out.


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## Lee_M (23 Jun 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Something that was mentioned in the 1st post grossed me out.


 
I'm assuming it was the 10 miles in 5 hours part?


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## potsy (23 Jun 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Something that was mentioned in the 1st post grossed me out.


Cannot see it myself.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Jun 2016)

potsy said:


> Cannot see it myself.


The bit about a picnic did make me think of this.







>shudder<


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## Cubist (23 Jun 2016)

RideLikeTheStig said:


> Something that was mentioned in the 1st post grossed me out.


Then perhaps you could do us all a favour, and either keep your thoughts to yourself, and don't revisit the thread, or perhaps you could take the time to read it and engage a bit of thinking power about how your comment is completely unhelpful, disrespectful and thoughtless?

I had thought about putting my moderator hat on and deleting the comment and references to it, but it may serve others to read it and reflect on how it fits in with other prejudices and lack of respect.


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## Profpointy (23 Jun 2016)

Re-reading this, surely the seemingly insensitive mis-gendering is a genuine mistake, rather than some bizarre attempt to be offensive. Unless previously tipped-off, this is surely going to happen on occasion - and it's presumably quite a burden to a transgendered person to have to have to explain to everyone each time she happens to be wearing gender-neutral clothes or whatever. I'm sure it's also a burden to feel pressured to dress in an extra-feminine way to avoid this, but not everyone has come across this before, and is quite likely to be thrown the first time however sensitive and well-mannered they may be as a rule. 

Regarding the change of plans etc, again I think some people are being a little harsh. The changed-plan was I understand changed back once the OP made the point she was a unsure of the route home. That's fair enough surely ? The organiser, perhaps naively thought a cafe shop, no more than a few miles from home in their own city wouldn't present anyone with any great difficulty - and when pointed it out that it would, went back to plan A.

All this "complain to the organisers" anger seems completely inappropriate given the "culprit" is presumably a volunteer freely contributing his time to try and help the wider community. Make suggestions for improvements by all means, but "official complaint" is a different thing.

Now, if the leader had indeed been wilfully insensitive / deliberately offensive and I've mis-read things (after all, I wasn't there), then that's a different matter, and is, I agree, utterly unacceptable.


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## Cubist (23 Jun 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Re-reading this, surely the seemingly insensitive mis-gendering is a genuine mistake, rather than some bizarre attempt to be offensive. Unless previously tipped-off, this is surely going to happen on occasion - and it's presumably quite a burden to a transgendered person to have to have to explain to everyone each time she happens to be wearing gender-neutral clothes or whatever. I'm sure it's also a burden to feel pressured to dress in an extra-feminine way to avoid this, but not everyone has come across this before, and is quite likely to be thrown the first time however sensitive and well-mannered they may be as a rule.
> 
> Regarding the change of plans etc, again I think some people are being a little harsh. The changed-plan was I understand changed back once the OP made the point she was a unsure of the route home. That's fair enough surely ? The organiser, perhaps naively thought a cafe shop, no more than a few miles from home in their own city wouldn't present anyone with any great difficulty - and when pointed it out that it would, went back to plan A.
> 
> ...


Possibly, but after @Archeress had introduced herself by her name, any further references to gentlemen or MAMILS becomes crass stupidity. Unforgiveable frankly.


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## Profpointy (23 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> Possibly, but after @Archeress had introduced herself by her name, any further references to gentlemen or MAMILS becomes crass stupidity. Unforgiveable frankly.



I'd missed that bit - and still can't see it, but if that's the case, I do see the point


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## jefmcg (23 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> Possibly, but after @Archeress had introduced herself by her name, any further references to gentlemen or MAMILS becomes crass stupidity. Unforgiveable frankly.


Well, possibly even then it's a mistake. Most female names have similar sounding male equivalents. He might have misheard. 

I was the only woman in a motorcycle training course, and never got the certificate in my name, but the masculine equivalent. Not strictly misgendering, but just someone seeing a man's name because they expected to.


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## potsy (23 Jun 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Well, possibly even then it's a mistake. Most female names have similar sounding male equivalents. He might have misheard.
> 
> I was the only woman in a motorcycle training course, and never got the certificate in my name, but the masculine equivalent. Not strictly misgendering, but just someone seeing a man's name because they expected to.


To be fair Jeff is quite a male sounding name


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## Cuchilo (23 Jun 2016)

Cubist said:


> Then perhaps you could do us all a favour, and either keep your thoughts to yourself, and don't revisit the thread, or perhaps you could take the time to read it and engage a bit of thinking power about how your comment is completely unhelpful, disrespectful and thoughtless?
> 
> I had thought about putting my moderator hat on and deleting the comment and references to it, but it may serve others to read it and reflect on how it fits in with other prejudices and lack of respect.



Maybe if it was in Health issues where self harm and depression are normally discussed then people wouldn't have stumbled across it and read it in the general cycling area .


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## outlash (23 Jun 2016)

User said:


> Perhaps so but do people need insulating from stuff?



Indeed. Perhaps if people didn't act like knobbers then this thread wouldn't exist.


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## Cuchilo (23 Jun 2016)

User said:


> Perhaps so but do people need insulating from stuff?


No not at all but there is a whole section devoted to it . Maybe get rid of that section and integrate it all into general discussions about cycling ?


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## Cuchilo (23 Jun 2016)

No there is another section for that .


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## Cubist (23 Jun 2016)

The health matters are background, not the point of the thread. 

I've modded out the derailing spat posts, keep it civil please.


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## Archeress (24 Jun 2016)

I saw my care coordinator today and we were supposed to continue working on my WRAP (wellness recovery action plan), but she could see my health had dipped. We talked about the week and I spoke of the ride. She is going to talk to them for me without mentioning me. As a team they refer patients to them and they want to make sure that the ride leaders are more careful dealing with their clients in the future.

Archeress x


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## Pat "5mph" (24 Jun 2016)

All the best @Archeress, I think you're being extremely positive in the circumstances by not giving up the activity.
Hope your health gets better soon.


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## stephec (24 Jun 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Maybe if it was in Health issues where self harm and depression are normally discussed then people wouldn't have stumbled across it and read it in the general cycling area .


Does it matter what section it's in, a bit of common sense is all that's needed?


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## stephec (24 Jun 2016)

User said:


> Perhaps so but do people need insulating from stuff?


Judging by some peoples reaction to mentally handicapped people in public places they probably do.


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## Glow worm (24 Jun 2016)

Archeress said:


> I saw my care coordinator today and we were supposed to continue working on my WRAP (wellness recovery action plan), but she could see my health had dipped. We talked about the week and I spoke of the ride. She is going to talk to them for me without mentioning me. As a team they refer patients to them and they want to make sure that the ride leaders are more careful dealing with their clients in the future.
> 
> Archeress x



That sounds very positive and I hope you feel your care coordinator will be proactive and sensitive on your behalf. I can't offer any advice I'm afraid but I just hope very much that you continue riding and that you have a much more positive experience of group rides in future. It's easy for me to say, but really, don't let it put you off. All the very best.


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## jefmcg (24 Jun 2016)

Profpointy said:


> All this "complain to the organisers" anger seems completely inappropriate given the "culprit" is presumably a volunteer freely contributing his time to try and help the wider community. Make suggestions for improvements by all means, but "official complaint" is a different thing.


Actually, I don't think it matters (in this case) if the person was a volunteer or paid. The point of these rides is to bring provide a safe place for people who need it. If one of the ride leaders is behaving in such a way that people partaking in the rides find it a hostile environment, then all the good that could come of the ride is gone. Someone a little more fragile @Archeress could find it more than they can deal with. It could mark the end of someone's last attempt a mixing with other people.

Sure, the organisers should be gentle with the ride leader in helping them improve or letting them go as appropriate, but if someone isn't making a positive contribution on these rides it's better they don't help at all, whatever their motives.


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## Cuchilo (24 Jun 2016)

stephec said:


> Does it matter what section it's in, a bit of common sense is all that's needed?


If you have a problem with the sections then contact the site owner .


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## stephec (24 Jun 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> If you have a problem with the sections then contact the site owner .


I haven't got any problem, but your post seemed to suggest this wasn't a suitable topic for general discussion.


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## bondirob (25 Jun 2016)

I'm sure the leader didn't mean to get your gender wrong

I think it would be good practice to take such things lightly.
It's your choice how you let things affect you.


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## Hill Wimp (25 Jun 2016)

@Archeress s


Archeress said:


> I saw my care coordinator today and we were supposed to continue working on my WRAP (wellness recovery action plan), but she could see my health had dipped. We talked about the week and I spoke of the ride. She is going to talk to them for me without mentioning me. As a team they refer patients to them and they want to make sure that the ride leaders are more careful dealing with their clients in the future.
> 
> Archeress x


That is good news. I do hope you will give the rides another go and indeed continue to ride when you can. Hope you start to feel more positive soon and come back and tell us how you are getting on. Don't let small minded people halt your progress, it is their issue not yours


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## Cubist (25 Jun 2016)

User said:


> I think you missed a bit...


No, I left it in deliberately as I explained, as a demonstration of how insensitive and stupid some people can be.


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