# Cycling UK Advice Coronavirus



## lane (19 Mar 2020)

*EDIT: THE ADVICE QUOTED BELOW HAS NOW BEEN UPDATED BY CYCLING UK.*


Cycling UK advice "is it safe to cycle" per the link below. Is it me or is this rather confusing?

https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/c...Bcty13ftjPG-_jICs1SCxK374IgCO0GLAfXWPPCbg45J4

*Q: I’m a healthy cyclist over the age of 70, is it safe for me to continue cycling during the Coronavirus outbreak?*
KH: Yes. The latest advice is to self-isolate at home for the next twelve weeks to protect yourself from infection. Exercise is encouraged, which would permit cycling indoors on a turbo trainer or an exercise bike.
Tissue use and hand washing advice is as above.
*Q: I’m a cyclist with chronic health conditions such as heart disease, diabetes or COPD , is it safe for me to continue cycling during the Coronavirus outbreak?*
KH: Yes, as above.

*Q: I’m a cyclist who has been in physical contact / close proximity recently with friends or relatives with symptoms who are self-isolating and I live in the same household as them - is it safe for me to continue cycling during the Coronavirus outbreak?*
KH: No. You are high risk to others as you may be infected, although may not be showing symptoms. It would be wise (although frustrating) to stay at home and use a turbo trainer or exercise bike if you have one, instead of going out, even if you feel well.

The first two paragraphs I have pasted above say yes it is OK to continue cycling but then seem to imply this should only be indoors. The third paragraph says no not safe to cycle should only exercise indoors.

This is surely confusing (to me at least) because in first two it IS safe to cycle but you should do it indoors and the final one it ISN'T safe to cycle so you should only cycle indoors.

What do others make of it?


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## Drago (19 Mar 2020)

Ah, Cycling UK, those famous health and epidemiology experts.

It seems simple to me:

The second paragraph it's ok to carry onc cycling if you're not infected.

The third paragraph, if you're self isolating because you're either infected or been in close contact with someone who is infected, then you should stay indoors.

However...

The first paragraph is wrong. The advice for high risk groups is not to self-isolate, but to _socially distance_ themselves. Self isolation is for people who are infected or who have been in close contact with someone who is infected.



Ignore any advice from me, or your neighbour, or Dr Nothing, the self appointed professor of bollocks who wants only to get his face on telly, and even CUK. Take such advice from the NHS website only.


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## lane (19 Mar 2020)

Well they have consulted a doctor so not just totally made it up themselves - I just don't think its clear.


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## Phaeton (19 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> This is surely confusing (to me at least) because in first two it IS safe to cycle and the final one it ISN'T safe to cycle so you should only cycle indoors.
> 
> What do others make of it?


Don't the first 2 say indoor cycling only?


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## lane (19 Mar 2020)

That's my point. All 3 seem to say only cycle indoors. But two answer yes it is safe to continue cycling and the final one says no its not. But ultimately the same advice for all 3.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Mar 2020)

You have to take it in the context of the first Q & A which you have omitted from your post. In the first one aged under 70 with no health conditions you were safe to cycle outside. But in the final scenario listed you can’t do that even if you are well. Perhaps it should have said outdoors, but otherwise I didn’t have a problem understanding it.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Mar 2020)

The first bit you left out, clearly talking about cycling outside

*I’m a healthy cyclist under the age of 70, is it safe for me to continue cycling during the Coronavirus outbreak? *
Dr Hattersley (KH): Yes. There is no reason for you to stop cycling. Visits to cafes and pubs should be avoided to limit exposure to infection. You should carry tissues to use when cycling, disposing of them safely in a bin as soon as possible.

Upon returning home, you must wash your hands. It’s also advisable to wash your cycling gloves, too. Remember to avoid touching your face if your hands are not clean.


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## Phaeton (19 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You have to take it in the context of the first Q & A which you have omitted from your post. In the first one aged under 70 with no health conditions you were safe to cycle outside. But in the final scenario listed you can’t do that even if you are well. Perhaps it should have said outdoors, but otherwise I didn’t have a problem understanding it.


That's how I read it


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## twentysix by twentyfive (19 Mar 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Don't the first 2 say indoor cycling only?


Those paragraphs imply that. Not sure the first para is correct as per Drago's observation above.


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## lane (19 Mar 2020)

To start with I found it confusing and still think it is personally - but even worse it turns out to not only confusing but incorrect which I think is really quite poor from a national organisation. What is recommended is being more stringent regarding social distancing as noted by @Drago. Social distancing rather than self isolation would not seem to imply that you can only cycle indoors. If I go cycling outside by myself I would consider myself to be as socially distanced as I can be. More so than being in the house with my family.


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## Ian H (19 Mar 2020)

An earlier version made more sense. It has been updated but not entirely eptly. I might give Dr Kate a nudge, ask her to look.


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## lane (19 Mar 2020)

Good idea. I realise things are fast moving but at the same time I think clear accurate advice is important.


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## Ian H (19 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Good idea. I realise things are fast moving but at the same time I think clear accurate advice is important.


She's on to it, but it sounds like too many hands making a pig's ear of the broth (echoed by my mangled metaphor).


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## tom73 (20 Mar 2020)

Sports England have the following say 
Getting active outside is still fine! If you are well and have no symptoms, going for a walk, run or a cycle is also a good way to take a break. Again just follow the advice on social distancing and contact & consider doing it solo or with someone you live with.


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## C R (20 Mar 2020)

This piece in the graun goes over the same points, cycling on your own maintains social distance and is overall good for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...urage-cycling-during-the-coronavirus-lockdown


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## Phaeton (20 Mar 2020)

I think they are all only not committing themselves due to the concern that the lock down may get more stringent,


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## Tom B (20 Mar 2020)

I'm not 70+ but the idea of social isolation appeals!

Thought I'd try social desolation yesterday. Spent two hours behaving like a hoon on the MTB and didn't see a soul until i got back to the unusually quiet towns. Then for some reason people didn't want to come near me


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## Shearwater Missile (20 Mar 2020)

I saw what I thought was a man in a field all alone yesterday. As I got closer I could see it was a scarecrow so it too is doing the social distancing thing.


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## lane (20 Mar 2020)

Worzel Gummidge? Better watch out for him talking to those children


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## lane (20 Mar 2020)

There is also a lot of confusion on the local Facebook group this morning regarding the difference between social distancing and self isolation and who should be doing what. No doubt the new Government slogan "stay home save lives" will just add more confusion.


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## Randombiker9 (20 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Ah, Cycling UK, those famous health and epidemiology experts.
> 
> It seems simple to me:
> 
> ...


 
exactly, anyway if you have to go out cycling is better than buses etc.. anyway I’m out At animal which is volunteering and everyone’s just distancing or like sitting a foot part from each other. Because even though no one has got it yet a lot of the staff have asthma or diabeties and some volunteers are the same etc...


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## Maherees (21 Mar 2020)

I normally go out with a cycling group, I have no coughs etc so can I go out on my own and be tazered?


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## vickster (21 Mar 2020)

Maherees said:


> I normally go out with a cycling group, I have no coughs etc so can I go out on my own and be tazered?


Why would you get tasered


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## Drago (21 Mar 2020)

Because he dresses up as Osama Bin Laden when he goes out.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2020)

Randombiker9 said:


> At animal which is volunteering and . . . even though no one has got it yet a lot of the staff have asthma or diabeties and some volunteers are the same etc...


You and the other volunteers "like sitting a foot part from each other" (31cm!!!), don't know that "no one has got it". When each of us catches this, it won't be from someone we know "has got it", it'll be a passing probably assymptomatic contact, direct from mouth or via deposited droplets on surfaces you have touched and transfered to body orifice.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> it'll be a passing probably assymptomatic contact, direct from mouth.



You've got to stop kissing everyone (on the lips) you meet. Especially important no tongues!


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## vickster (22 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> You've got to stop kissing everyone (on the lips) you meet. Especially important no tongues!


I’m more concerned about his use of two ss in asymptomatic!


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2020)

Did seem 'not quite right' but 'spellcheck' seemed to let it through. Be very concerned. Three pedant demerit points for me.


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## Shearwater Missile (22 Mar 2020)

From the vehicles I saw out, whilst on my ride it was just like any other Sunday. I can`t think that they were all after toilet rolls. There were more cyclists than I usually see, mostly in twos and also couples which is nice too and plenty of walkers. The weather may have had a part in this with the glorious sunshine.


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## oldwheels (22 Mar 2020)

I have to go shopping from time to time where I am at considerably more risk than out on my bike where I need have close contact with nobody. If anybody says I might fall off and need attention then I can go on three wheels where even that risk is minimised. I do not have trike tyres suitable for forest tracks but I can check them out. Problem there is these tracks are probably jammed with people so I am more isolated on the road.


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

Just been out on my bike and one thing for sure it is absolutely impossible to maintain a 2m distance from others which is what the NHS website recommends for social distancing.

Edit - not least because most people make absolutely no effort to do so


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

The Cycling UK advice has now changed. The bullet point below is second bullet point in my OP (third if you look at the full document) and interestingly no longer quotes the Doctor but quotes PHE (other points still quote the Doctor). As far as I am aware this is still not the advice on the NHS website which still says stricter social distancing - whatever that means. I think I will now give up with getting any clear advice from anyone and just do what seems reasonable to me. 

PHE: If you are in a vulnerable group then we strongly advise that you stay at home to reduce your overall social contacts during the period in which the social distancing measures apply.

Edit - this compares with NHS website which is not the same and I quote

We are advising those who are at increased risk of severe illness from coronavirus (COVID-19) to be* particularly stringent* in following social distancing measures.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> it is absolutely impossible to maintain a 2m distance from others which is what the NHS website recommends for social distancing.


Why not? Passing riders and peds (both with verbal warning as necessary) or riding past others going the other way doesn't 'count' - by that I mean that because the closeness is fleeting, the risk of cross-infection is (surely) negligible. It's when people (peds) congregate in groups, even small ones, and fail to keep 2m apart, inside or outside, that risk increases aiui.


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> I have to go shopping from time to time where I am at considerably more risk than out on my bike where I need have close contact with nobody. If anybody says I might fall off and need attention then I can go on three wheels where even that risk is minimised. I do not have trike tyres suitable for forest tracks but I can check them out. Problem there is these tracks are probably jammed with people so I am more isolated on the road.



They have closed National Trust and round here country parks which means people will be more concentrated on where they can still get out.


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> Why not? Passing riders and peds (both with verbal warning as necessary) or riding past others going the other way doesn't 'count' - by that I mean that because the closeness is fleeting, the risk of cross-infection is (surely) negligible. It's when people (peds) congregate in groups, even small ones, and fail to keep 2m apart, inside or outside, that risk increases aiui.


 in which case no problem if it doesn't count.


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## Ajax Bay (22 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> no problem if it [passing fleetingly closer than 2m] doesn't count.


What do you think? Compared to going to food shops, which people who are not home-isolating have to do, on a bike or otherwise, which does 'count' (see working definition of 'count' above) but the benefits of eating outweigh the risk.


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## Randombiker9 (22 Mar 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> You and the other volunteers "like sitting a foot part from each other" (31cm!!!), don't know that "no one has got it". When each of us catches this, it won't be from someone we know "has got it", it'll be a passing probably assymptomatic contact, direct from mouth or via deposited droplets on surfaces you have touched and transfered to body orifice.


The Nature of the job you wash hands often anyway and no one was showing any symptoms etc... and anyway they decided to close fully today with only staff that live on site allowed to care for the animals. 

just curios, why do you think shopping centres are still open especially with restaurants and cafes etc... being closed? I don’t see the point of them remaining open?


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## rogerzilla (22 Mar 2020)

How are they going to stop teens hanging round with each other? I can't see them willingly self-isolating, unless they're goths. Fine the parents £500 each time the kid is found outside in a group?


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> What do you think? Compared to going to food shops, which people who are not home-isolating have to do, on a bike or otherwise, which does 'count' (see working definition of 'count' above) but the benefits of eating outweigh the risk.



I thought you were saying it didn't count? I don't know if it does or not but I guess it's clearly a lower risk.

Anyway after today I will be going out when there are fewer people around which can't hurt.


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## lane (22 Mar 2020)

rogerzilla said:


> How are they going to stop teens hanging round with each other? I can't see them willingly self-isolating, unless they're goths. Fine the parents £500 each time the kid is found outside in a group?



I think it's fairly like we will all be confined indoors as other countries too hard to police otherwise


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

oldwheels said:


> I do not have trike tyres suitable for forest tracks but I can check them out. Problem there is these tracks are probably jammed with people so I am more isolated on the road.


Yes, I'm struggling to remember which forest tracks and flood banks are used by maintenance or farm vehicles (so wide enough to pass someone distant) and which are single track so best avoided.


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## oldwheels (23 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Yes, I'm struggling to remember which forest tracks and flood banks are used by maintenance or farm vehicles (so wide enough to pass someone distant) and which are single track so best avoided.


That for me may be less of a problem now that tourists are not allowed on the ferries so less people on forest roads. One problem is that some have padlocked gates with a side bit to get a bike round. Unless they have changed the locks I still have a key. We used these roads sometimes for cycle racing and I got a key in case of emergency requiring access by a vehicle. All my recent cycling has been on roads so I have no idea what the surfaces are like just now and while I have Schwalbe Marathon Plus on the rear wheel the front are the standard ones which came with the trike. One track I know has mostly reasonable surface there is a section made up with football size rocks. On a bike I could get off and walk but not so easy with a trike.


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## BigMeatball (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I think it's fairly like we will all be confined indoors as other countries too hard to police otherwise



If people this week behave the same way they behaved last week, the govt is going to go down the route of total lockdown, Italy style.

Last week I went for a walk on my lunch break. Never seen the roads so crowded and my local park was just surreal: groups of people just hanging out, old and young, dozens of children in the playground, old folks walking the dogs.

Same thing yesterday when I went for a run.

And I'm not even going to mention all the old toolbags crowding in waitrose and m&s just like if nothing happens.

The government overestimated the intelligence of the people. I guess it's time to do it the hard way now.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

People don't want to stay indoors all weekend at the start of spring on a sunny day and unless you make them are not going to.


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## The Central Scrutinizer (23 Mar 2020)

What is different to the flu is that the virus doesn't come out straight away.It can incubate inside you for up to two weeks so i can be writing this saying i'm healthy with no symptoms when in fact i could have it.That is why social distancing and self isolation are so important.
I am going on solo bike rides and taking the dogs out but obviously social distancing and that's it.


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## BigMeatball (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> People don't want to stay indoors all weekend at the start of spring on a sunny day and unless you make them are not going to.



Fair enough, but if the advice from the government and nhs is to not go out and gather in big groups, then I don't understand why all these people are gathering and doing picnics in the park, or groups of 5-6 parents walking about with strollers, and groups of old people just chilling everywhere.

I understand social distancing can be stressful, especially when the weather starts getting nice, but if these people are not able to understand and follow simple advice given to avoid bigger problems, then I'm not going to say that I hope they catch the virus, but I'm not not going to say it either.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

Personally I am now timing my trips outdoors either walking or cycling when not many people are about. Won't be going out in a sunny Sunday afternoon again.


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Personally I am now timing my trips outdoors either walking or cycling when not many people are about.


My ability to do this for groceries has been limited by long-opening shops closing early. Similarly, restriction of click and collect increases my exposure. I know both have reasons but this is not without drawbacks.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

Yeah not great what is the issue with click and collect


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Yeah not great what is the issue with click and collect


Priority for NHS and vulnerable, I believe, combined with a surge in demand. Booked up 3 weeks ahead now.


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

Wow! what a difference between the Uk and France ! Here there are no grey areas open to individual interpretation. For example no cycling is allowed whatsoever and that means individually or in groups. If you walk it must be within 2km of your home. When driving you must have signed and dated document stating your purpose so that the gendarmerie won't fine you (approx €135 per. incident) l know at least one person who was pulled over and fortunately he had the document with him. 
The consequence of all this is that there isn't a soul about in our village or even in the nearby small town. All the bars are closed and only some of the food shops are open.
My gut feeling for what its worth is that we are in this for the long haul and until an effective vaccine has been developed (which is probably some way off) we will struggle to maintain normality for perhaps the next twelve months ! 
And since l live in France and am addicted to the TDF. it pains me to say that l won't be surprised if it doesn't happen this year. I just hope that l am wrong


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## hoopdriver (23 Mar 2020)

Social distancing on my morning ride, pictured on the seafront at Hastings. Fresh air and exercise is important - and so is staying healthy and being social responsible. It really isn't that big an ask to stay two metres apart. It would be nice if those who insist on socialising would get the message so we don't have to endure the type of lockdown they have in France. It really isn't that big an ask.


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> View attachment 509958
> 
> 
> Social distancing on my morning ride, pictured on the seafront at Hastings. Fresh air and exercise is important - and so is staying healthy and being social responsible. It really isn't that big an ask to stay two metres apart. It would be nice if those who insist on socialising would get the message so we don't have to endure the type of lockdown they have in France. It really isn't that big an ask.


How right you are ! It amazes me when l speak to my relatives in England that the seriousness of the situation still hasn't dawned on them . They are quite shocked when l tell them how life has become very restricted here. I even had a close relative say "oh thats just typical of the French , they just love all that bureaucracy , form filling and officialdom" .Give me strength
Anyway nearly forgot , that is a beautiful photograph and it lifts my spirits, thanks !


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> Wow! what a difference between the Uk and France ! Here there are no grey areas open to individual interpretation. For example no cycling is allowed whatsoever and that means individually or in groups. If you walk it must be within 2km of your home. When driving you must have signed and dated document stating your purpose [...]


So anyone without a car living more than 2km from a food shop must pay for delivery, beg charity or starve?

Contrary to "no grey areas"... It looks clear in the current amended decree https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000041728476&categorieLien=cid that there is no discrimination against active travel - in other words, you could go to work or food shopping or medical centres by bike as validly as by car - so where is this "no cycling is allowed whatsoever" laid down? Could it be in the massive grey area of "Le représentant de l'Etat dans le département est habilité à adopter des mesures plus restrictives en matière de déplacement des personnes lorsque les circonstances locales l'exigent" / "The State representative in the district is empowered to adopt more restrictive travel measures for people if the local circumstances require it"?

I fear for France if its government is harming residents' health by restricting exercise so severely that few will persist, right at the time when the government should want everyone to be fighting fit, ready for possibly the fight of their lives against this virus.


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## BigMeatball (23 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> I fear for France if its government is harming residents' health by restricting exercise so severely that few will persist, right at the time when the government should want everyone to be fighting fit, ready for possibly the fight of their lives against this virus.



There's plenty of people in the world that live a long and happy life without doing one single minute of exercise.

Just because people like us like exercising and feel the benefits of it on our health, it doesn't mean that whoever doesn't exercise is going to suffer and/or die.


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## pawl (23 Mar 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> How right you are ! It amazes me when l speak to my relatives in England that the seriousness of the situation still hasn't dawned on them . They are quite shocked when l tell them how life has become very restricted here. I even had a close relative say "oh thats just typical of the French , they just love all that bureaucracy , form filling and officialdom" .Give me strength
> Anyway nearly forgot , that is a beautiful photograph and it lifts my spirits, thanks !




Hate to say it but I have to agree.The attitude with a lot of people in this country appears to be pull up the ladder I’m alright Jack.When we are put into lockdown they will be all complaining about there individual rights Don’t these idiots realise that it has happened due to there attitude


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## C R (23 Mar 2020)

pawl said:


> Hate to say it but I have to agree.The attitude with a lot of people in this country appears to be pull up the ladder I’m alright Jack.When we are put into lockdown they will be all complaining about there individual rights Don’t these idiots realise that it has happened due to there attitude


These people are never at fault for anything, in their own minds at least.


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## matticus (23 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> View attachment 509958
> 
> 
> Social distancing on my morning ride, pictured on the seafront at Hastings. Fresh air and exercise is important - and so is staying healthy and being social responsible. It really isn't that big an ask to stay two metres apart. It would be nice if those who insist on socialising would get the message so we don't have to endure the type of lockdown they have in France. It really isn't that big an ask.


An excellent photo (and an even better selfie-stick!)


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> There's plenty of people in the world that live a long and happy life without doing one single minute of exercise.
> 
> Just because people like us like exercising and feel the benefits of it on our health, it doesn't mean that whoever doesn't exercise is going to suffer and/or die.


Enough will to make a difference. Some people live long while smoking but it's still not a good idea for govt to encourage it.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

There is obviously a lot that would normally be encouraged but isn't at the moment - like going school. I don't think I will die if I don't ride my bike but might from the virus. I would still like to ride my bike in s responsible way - which after yesterday will be going out later on a weekday evenings not Sunday afternoon


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> So anyone without a car living more than 2km from a food shop must pay for delivery, beg charity or starve?
> 
> Contrary to "no grey areas"... It looks clear in the current amended decree https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000041728476&categorieLien=cid that there is no discrimination against active travel - in other words, you could go to work or food shopping or medical centres by bike as validly as by car - so where is this "no cycling is allowed whatsoever" laid down? Could it be in the massive grey area of "Le représentant de l'Etat dans le département est habilité à adopter des mesures plus restrictives en matière de déplacement des personnes lorsque les circonstances locales l'exigent" / "The State representative in the district is empowered to adopt more restrictive travel measures for people if the local circumstances require it"?
> 
> I fear for France if its government is harming residents' health by restricting exercise so severely that few will persist, right at the time when the government should want everyone to be fighting fit, ready for possibly the fight of their lives against this virus.


I think you are ok to go shopping for food even on a bike not that you could carry much l guess. I dont ever remember seeing a cyclist at Intermarché even in normal times but you would probably be ok if you had the Attestation de déplacement dérogatoire signed and dated etc. As for people without a car, what we have done is to collect orders from friends and neighbours , put together one large order and email the supermarket . We will be collecting the whole lot on Wednesday evening ! We will then drop off peoples orders or they can collect from us if they are in our village! It could be called helping those less fortunate than oneself , no sweat !


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> There is obviously a lot that would normally be encouraged but isn't at the moment - like going school. I don't think I will die if I don't ride my bike but might from the virus. I would still like to ride my bike in s responsible way - which after yesterday will be going out later on a weekday evenings not Sunday afternoon


I stick a bike on the trainer and do an hour or so out on our terrace .....bloody boring it is too but at least it is exercise of sorts


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> I think you are ok to go shopping for food even on a bike not that you could carry much l guess.


I have panniers up to 60 litres, 35 litre backpack, front basket and a trailer. The Dutch bike can carry more than my car boot (but not if the back seats are folded down).

It just seems irresponsible to drive a car unnecessarily, polluting, getting in the way of delivery vehicles and risking hurting other people so much more severely.


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> I have panniers up to 60 litres, 35 litre backpack, front basket and a trailer. The Dutch bike can carry more than my car boot (but not if the back seats are folded down).
> 
> It just seems irresponsible to drive a car unnecessarily, polluting, getting in the way of delivery vehicles and risking hurting other people so much more severely.


Good for you , l am not knocking using a bike for shopping etc. especially one like yours in Norfolk and as an ex. resident of both Diss and Norwich l am aware that the area is flat compared with here. The people we are trying to help are either elderly or not in the first flush of youth. So lm afraid cars are the only option for them normally !


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## mjr (23 Mar 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> Good for you , l am not knocking using a bike for shopping etc. especially one like yours in Norfolk and as an ex. resident of both Diss and Norwich l am aware that the area is flat compared with here. The people we are trying to help are either elderly or not in the first flush of youth. So lm afraid cars are the only option for them normally !


I'm not knocking the likes of you carrying so much it's arguably necessary for that terrain. More the "drive to the corner shop for one newspaper" brigade. Its car park was full again today. I struggle to think how you could buy enough of its limited ranges not to be able to carry it walking even - maybe one of the cars has a disabled badge but no way did all twelve!


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> I'm not knocking the likes of you carrying so much it's arguably necessary for that terrain. More the "drive to the corner shop for one newspaper" brigade. Its car park was full again today. I struggle to think how you could buy enough of its limited ranges not to be able to carry it walking even - maybe one of the cars has a disabled badge but no way did all twelve!


Fair point !


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

Just had an email from Cycling UK. The advice (which i think was the original subject of this thread) has been significantly revised and in my opinion is now greatly improved and also very clear. I am clearer what is expected in my situation (and is what I have decided to do in any case but pleased with the confirmation).

If @Ian H had anything to do with getting this advice made more logical and useful many thanks.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

Revised advice here:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Mar 2020)

woodbutcher said:


> I think you are ok to go shopping for food even on a bike not that you could carry much l guess.



Two rear panniers or a trailer with 70 litre bag. You could carry plenty even without a cargo bike.


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

Just seen a report on SKY regarding a possible lock down because people are going out too much. The picture they have used looks OK to me - cyclists seem socially distanced (maybe not the two at the back) and there is one without a helmet!

Edit - also missed the person sat closely behind the female cyclist at the top of the hill!


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## woodbutcher (23 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Just seen a report on SKY regarding a possible lock down because people are going out too much. The picture they have used looks OK to me - cyclists seem socially distanced (maybe not the two at the back) and there is one without a helmet!
> 
> Edit - also missed the person sat closely behind the female cyclist at the top of the hill!
> 
> View attachment 510042


Is that really light traffic ? Holy smoke l've been in rural France for far to long because that looks like a traffic jam to me.
And everyone is on the wrong side f the road ....


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## BigMeatball (23 Mar 2020)

Way too many people in that photo for my liking


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## hoopdriver (23 Mar 2020)

I go out at 4:30am, back by 6:30am, never see a soul...


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I go out at 4:30am, back by 6:30am, never see a soul...



After yesterday's ride I will be doing something similar


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## lane (23 Mar 2020)

We don't know if the ones cycling together are family members in which case OK.

Anyway won't be for much longer.


Funny I was reading some months ago that virus coming in the spring would be good because people are less likely to catch it outside - as opposed to the Flu at all the Xmas parties. But things change I guess.


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## Crankarm (24 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> I'm not knocking the likes of you carrying so much it's arguably necessary for that terrain. More the "*drive to the corner shop for one newspaper*" brigade. Its car park was full again today. I struggle to think how you could buy enough of its limited ranges not to be able to carry it walking even - maybe one of the cars has a disabled badge but no way did all twelve!



Who still buys newspapers! Only old fossils probably? They are supposed to be isolating themselves by definitely staying at home, strictly no contact with anyone.


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## hoopdriver (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> Who still buys newspapers! Only old fossils probably? They are supposed to be isolating themselves by definitely staying at home, strictly no contact with anyone.


Breathtaking assumptions, arrogance and, also, incorrect


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> Who still buys newspapers! Only old fossils probably? They are supposed to be isolating themselves by definitely staying at home, strictly no contact with anyone.


Why? I'm 65 and far from being an old fossil. I have a newspaper delivered Saturday and Sunday, during the week I read online. I've many friends who have a paper seven days a week. Reading and holding a paper is an enjoyable experience for some. As I and most of my friends are fortunate to be retired we have the time to enjoy life's simple pleasures.

Your post is inaccurate, rude and ignorant.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

I fell across this BBC article which half way through states:

"Bicycle shops are on the list of retailers that are allowed to stay open during the shutdown."

This would seem to add weight to the argument for continuing to cycle.

I am very much in two minds as to whether to continue to ride, let's face it 70-80 miles is not what many consider a bike ride, or to stay at home. Confused and unsure would best describe my thoughts.

Is the question more about do we cycle for sport and pleasure and exercise is a by product? Or do we cycle for exercise? Personally I'm in the sport and leisure camp with exercise being an excellent benefit. If it's about sport and leisure we should probably stop. My wife's tennis courts have been, closed our roads have been left open. Our sport is probably unique in that it takes place on the public highway.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Sports Direct vows to keep shops open despite new curbs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915


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## hoopdriver (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> I fell across this BBC article which half way through states:
> 
> "Bicycle shops are on the list of retailers that are allowed to stay open during the shutdown."
> 
> ...


Same here. I didn't ride this morning, although the weather was lovely and it pained me to remain indoors. I wanted to think this through. I go out very early - typically 4:30am and ride for two hours on empty country lanes - zero risk to anybody. What complicates this, philosophically, is that I bring along my camera and shoot images of cycling in the landscape - this is an integral part of my rides. Again, I do this, typically, on deserted country lanes with absolutely no one about. There would be zero risk to me or anybody else by my continuing to do this as I do my permitted once-a-day "exercise". But pursuing photography - my profession, even if unpaid in this case - is not exactly within the spirit of the ban on activities and I really don't want to be a prat about this. It's too important. And so sadly I think that if/when I do go out it'll be short rides around the town with no camera...


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## C R (24 Mar 2020)

@PaulSB and @hoopdriver I think the point is stopping all unnecessary contact between people, which your rides comply with, so no need to feel that you need to stop riding.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> @PaulSB and @hoopdriver I think the point is stopping all unnecessary contact between people, which your rides comply with, so no need to feel that you need to stop riding.



Thank you. I'm still struggling but I'm adding to the "carry on" list of reasons.


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## dave r (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> Who still buys newspapers! Only old fossils probably? They are supposed to be isolating themselves by definitely staying at home, strictly no contact with anyone.



We buy newspapers, I also have a news feed on both my phone and tablet.


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## dave r (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Thank you. I'm still struggling but I'm adding to the "carry on" list of reasons.



A lot of cyclists are unsure about this one, myself included.


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## Velochris (24 Mar 2020)

I agree that cycling will often mean minimal risk of infection. I know I could do a three hour ride and stay further away from fewer people than if I did a 30 minute run along the pavements. 

However, my ride would be in fairly isolated rural areas. Emergency services are stretched and this will only get worse. From experience I know the amount of resources required if a cyclist crashes in remote areas. 

I therfore think we need to also consider that, albeit it is only a small chance of such an event occurring.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

dave r said:


> A lot of cyclists are unsure about this one, myself included.



Yep. Lots of my cycle buddies are struggling with the whole thing. There's a big debate in the club Facebook group.



Velochris said:


> I agree that cycling will often mean minimal risk of infection. I know I could do a three hour ride and stay further away from fewer people than if I did a 30 minute run along the pavements.
> 
> However, my ride would be in fairly isolated rural areas. Emergency services are stretched and this will only get worse. From experience I know the amount of resources required if a cyclist crashes in remote areas.
> 
> I therfore think we need to also consider that, albeit it is only a small chance of such an event occurring.



I agree. It was an argument put forward by friends days ago when I continued to ride. At that time my countering point was when people stop driving the potential burden on the NHS will reduce.

People have effectively been told to stop driving other than absolutely essential journeys - food, medicine, key workers.


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## Velochris (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Yep. Lots of my cycle buddies are struggling with the whole thing. There's a big debate in the club Facebook group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. All unncessary journeys, car, bicycle etc... would help reduce the burden. As much as we all love cycling, I cannot put my hand on heart and say I can justify long remote rides at the moment.


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## Mo1959 (24 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> I agree. All unncessary journeys, car, bicycle etc... would help reduce the burden. As much as we all love cycling, I cannot put my hand on heart and say I can justify it at the moment.


I feel I can for my physical and mental wellbeing but will be sensible. For instance I walked at 5.30am this morning. If I cycle I will be alone on country roads....no stopping and no contact.


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## C R (24 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> However, my ride would be in fairly isolated rural areas. Emergency services are stretched and this will only get worse. From experience I know the amount of resources required if a cyclist crashes in remote areas.


This is the bit I keep going back to. If I have an accident an end up in A&E, I will not only use scarce resources, I will also have more risky contacts than I would otherwise.

I know that people counter with what about a car accident or a DIY accident. Well, the point is to first, reduce social contact to cut the probability of transmission, but also, reduce unnecessary activities that might indirectly lead to increased contact. It is a difficult calculation, as I mentioned elsewhere, and, absent stricter guidelines, each of us will have to decide what works for us.


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## Mo1959 (24 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> This is the bit I keep going back to. If I have an accident an end up in A&E, I will not only use scarce resources, I will also have more risky contacts than I would otherwise.
> 
> I know that people counter with what about a car accident or a DIY accident. Well, the point is to first, reduce social contact to cut the probability of transmission, but also, reduce unnecessary activities that might indirectly lead to increased contact. It is a difficult calculation, as I mentioned elsewhere, and, absent stricter guidelines, each of us will have to decide what works for us.


I've slipped in the bath more times than I've come off the bike. I just feel if we can't keep ourselves mentally and physically fit, this is going to be unbearable and potentially lead to more health problems.


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## Velochris (24 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> I've slipped in the bath more times than I've come off the bike. I just feel if we can't keep ourselves mentally and physically fit, this is going to be unbearable and potentially lead to more health problems.



I was speaking in relation to my own situation. So, for the physical and mental wellbeing of society, I can mange, but accept for many, their mental wellbeing needs it.

My own experience is that taking up three police cars, an ambulance, a helicopter, several doctors, two consultants and three weeks of nursing, would give me great guilt at the moment, more so than it did at the time. 

There are risks to anything. Life still has to go on and it is a difficult balance for each individual to weigh up, based on their circumstances.


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## Venod (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Is the question more about do we cycle for sport and pleasure and exercise is a by product?





PaulSB said:


> Our sport is probably unique in that it takes place on the public highway.



Some interesting points here, when I was younger I would have fallen into the sport and pleasure group, I would say now I fall into the pleasure exercise group, and a bit of sport (bicycle orienteering) is a by product.

Road cycling by definition takes place on the public highway, but there are lots of alternatives.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

The word on my club Facebook page is when Michael Gove was asked about cycling distances he replied:

"Whatever is normal for the individual"

I don't have a link but will post it when a fellow club member sends it to me.


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## matticus (24 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> My own experience is that taking up three police cars, an ambulance, a helicopter, several doctors, two consultants and three weeks of nursing, would give me great guilt at the moment, more so than it did at the time.


Are you sure this didn't happen during your work as a stunt-man?


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## Velochris (24 Mar 2020)

To be 


matticus said:


> Are you sure this didn't happen during your work as a stunt-man?


To be honest, I don't know, and nobody knows. 

Nearly seven years ago and the last recollection I have of that ride is three miles before the crash.


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## rivers (24 Mar 2020)

I'll continue to ride outside as long as I'm able. However, it will be done alone and on routes I know well. I will stick to shorter rides (30ish miles), a few times/week. Once restrictions are lifted, then I will think about longer rides with friends. But until then, I won't. And let's face it, long rides with friends and cafe stops are way more enjoyable than without either.


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## matticus (24 Mar 2020)

https://twitter.com/daniellloyd1

Well, triathletes are in a quandary.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

After a lot of thought I've decided, importantly Mrs P agrees, to ride 25-35 miles, two hours depending on the route, locally.

I'll do this seven days a week instead of my usual 3 x 70 miles.


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## lane (24 Mar 2020)

Yes my thinking is a couple of hours will enable me to get out early and back before many others are up and about. Might allow lightly longer to get to 50km I am not the quickest rider.


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## gavgav (24 Mar 2020)

I’ve ummed and ahhhed all day, whilst working from home, as to whether to go out on my bike after work, tonight. I’ve decided not to, even though it’s a beautiful evening, as it just doesn’t feel right, somehow. I wouldn’t enjoy it, I’d probably do a really short route and just want to get home quick, which is not what cycling is about for me and so I’ve decided not to. Mow the lawn instead is my evening plan now.


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## Crankarm (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Why? I'm 65 and far from being an old fossil. I have a newspaper delivered Saturday and Sunday, during the week I read online. I've many friends who have a paper seven days a week. Reading and holding a paper is an enjoyable experience for some. As I and most of my friends are fortunate to be retired we have the time to enjoy life's simple pleasures.
> 
> Your post is inaccurate, rude and ignorant.



You've just proved my point. You are retired so in high risk vulnerable group which the PM has said should self isolate for 12 weeks, no exceptions. I think riding or driving to a newsagents to get a paper would be in breach of your isolation. The self isolation was put in place by the government for your own safety and well being. If you have other ideas about compliance then that's down to you but my post was neither inaccurate, rude or ignorant.

In any case people who buy newspapers is painfully low now so much so that many run them as loss leaders as most people get their news from their on-line sites or social media. I doubt whether many younger people buy a newspaper. It really is only the older generation.


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## lane (24 Mar 2020)

[


Crankarm said:


> You've just proved my point. You are retired so in high risk vulnerable group which the PM has said should self isolate for 12 weeks, no exceptions. I think riding or driving to a newsagents to get a paper would be in breach of your isolation. The self isolation was put in place by the government for your own safety and well being. If you have other ideas about compliance then that's down to you but my post was neither inaccurate, rude or ignorant.
> 
> In any case people who buy newspapers is painfully low now so much so that many run them as loss leaders as most people get their news from their on-line sites or social media. I doubt whether many younger people buy a newspaper. It really is only the older generation.



To possibly bring the thread back to the topic of the Cycling UK advice, which was helpfully revised yesterday per my post, the advice to @PaulSB , being apparently 65, is not different to that of any other age group under 70. He is not required to self isolate for 12 weeks. He is fine to cycle following the new guidelines going solo and keeping a distance from others.

I think you are right though, sales of newspapers are now very low.


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## Venod (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> but my post was neither inaccurate, rude or ignorant.



Your post was accurate about the paper buying aspect, but don't you think calling people old fossils could be construed as rude and ignorant by some people, and you seem to have got your facts wrong in your latest post, isn't it over 70's who have been told to self isolate for 12 week.


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## pawl (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> Who still buys newspapers! Only old fossils probably? They are supposed to be isolating themselves by definitely staying at home, strictly no contact with anyone.




Go and isolate yourself somewhere without Wi-fi


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## Mo1959 (24 Mar 2020)

Venod said:


> Your post was accurate about re the paper buying aspect, but don't you think calling people old fossils could be construed as rude and ignorant by some people, and you seem to have got your facts wrong in your latest post, isn't it over 70's who have been told to self isolate for 12 week.


Exactly, and Paul regularly churns out decent miles at great average speeds. Probably puts many younger riders on here to shame.


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## PaulSB (24 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> You've just proved my point. You are retired so in high risk vulnerable group which the PM has said should self isolate for 12 weeks, no exceptions. I think riding or driving to a newsagents to get a paper would be in breach of your isolation. The self isolation was put in place by the government for your own safety and well being. If you have other ideas about compliance then that's down to you but my post was neither inaccurate, rude or ignorant.
> 
> In any case people who buy newspapers is painfully low now so much so that many run them as loss leaders as most people get their news from their on-line sites or social media. I doubt whether many younger people buy a newspaper. It really is only the older generation.



OK so let's examine this post in a little detail:

Could you provide a link showing a 65 year old, retired male is in a high risk vulnerable group
Please provide a link showing why a healthy individual with no underlying health issues for self-isolate for 12 weeks
At what point have I made any statement as regards to what does or does not breach "your" (meaning me in your post) self-isolation?
Where have I stated I have "other ideas" as to what compliance with self-isolation is?
Your second paragraph who buys newspapers is irrelevant. The act of buying a newspaper does not make an individual an "old fossil."
I took the trouble to establish whether or not I am in a high risk group sometime ago. I know precisely those groups and look forward to being able to place myself in a group when you provide the appropriate details. My description of your post was clear and accurate unlike the contents of the post quoted above.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Mar 2020)

With less outdoor exercise and movement don’t forget to do some walking or jumps or running to maintain bone density.


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## vickster (24 Mar 2020)

Venod said:


> Your post was accurate about re the paper buying aspect, but don't you think calling people old fossils could be construed as rude and ignorant by some people, and you seem to have got your facts wrong in your latest post, isn't it over 70's who have been told to self isolate for 12 week.


And the over 70s are still allowed to exercise if not in the 1.5m shielded group with severe respiratory illness, compromised immune system etc


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## mjr (24 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Exactly, and Paul regularly churns out decent miles at great average speeds. Probably puts many younger riders on here to shame.


There is nothing shameful in riding slower or not as far!


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## mjr (24 Mar 2020)

PaulSB said:


> Is the question more about do we cycle for sport and pleasure and exercise is a by product? Or do we cycle for exercise?


I cycle to get where I'm going, most of the time, like most cyclists IIRC. Twice as many commuters as leisure cyclists.


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## slowmotion (24 Mar 2020)

If you are reckoned to be in the vulnerable group, you will be sent a text and a letter from HMG this week. A friend who had an organ transplant got his yesterday.


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## Mo1959 (24 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> There is nothing shameful in riding slower or not as far!


Just a turn of phrase.......I’m much slower myself these days, I was just trying to make the point that Paul is hardly an old fossil!


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## lane (24 Mar 2020)

Reply to @slowmotion 


There is more than one category of vulnerable with different recommendations. Over 70 together with under 70 with less serious conditions or the most serious the ones you refer to. The revised cycling UK advice I posted yesterday provides advice in each case.

Edit : rather than read my clumsy wording refer to the new cycling UK advice I posted yesterday or NHS


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## adamangler (25 Mar 2020)

At the moment we are still allowed to ride. Now to go out for 3 hours may be taking advantage of the situation but we are not breaking guidelines by doing so just stretching them to the limit. I'm sure in due course further measures will come in such as exercise withing 200m of your home etc but until then exploit it, if you can do so safely.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

The thing is if you're spinning along alone on a country lane at 15mph you are not posing a risk to anyone, nor are you likely to pick up anything yourself.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

adamangler said:


> At the moment we are still allowed to ride. Now to go out for 3 hours may be taking advantage of the situation but we are not breaking guidelines by doing so just stretching them to the limit. I'm sure in due course further measures will come in such as exercise withing 200m of your home etc but until then exploit it, if you can do so safely.



The guidelines do say we can continue to ride, but I think some are missing the point. The guidelines also say that for all the "outdoor" exemptions, time spent outside the home should be minimised.

I don't think that the average man in the street would see three hour rides as minimal. I agree that riding alone, in quiet areas is low risk, and lower than running in urban areas. However, once we start to ignore the guidelines, whether we see them sensible or not, we cannot complain about others also breaching the guidelines.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

"The tragedy of the commons is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling the shared resource through their collective action." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons


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## Pat "5mph" (25 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> You are retired so in high risk vulnerable group which the PM has said should self isolate for 12 weeks, no exceptions.


*Mod Note:
this is an incorrect statement.
Being retired does not put you automatically in a high risk group.*
Facts here.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

adamangler said:


> Now to go out for 3 hours may be taking advantage of the situation but we are not breaking guidelines by doing so just stretching them to the limit.



The fundamental message from the government is “Stay home - Save lives”.

Yes, you can use exercise as one of the exemptions but that is on condition that you minimise the time spent outside. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

As I said elsewhere on this subject, don’t go looking to interpret the restrictions in a way that lets you carry on with some favourite pastime or hobby in the midst of a global health crisis. Maybe you have found a loophole, so what? Don’t make excuses for needlessly increasing the risk of spreading this virus.


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## straas (25 Mar 2020)

The current government advice suggests 150 minutes of exercise a week for healthy adults (this is unrelated to and predates any coronavirus advice)

So you'd expect if there were to be further restrictions then this MAY be the limit? So just over 20 minutes a day.

Obviously no-one knows at this point, this is pure assumption.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

straas said:


> The current government advice suggests 150 minutes of exercise a week for healthy adults (this is unrelated to and predates any coronavirus advice)
> 
> So you'd expect if there were to be further restrictions then this MAY be the limit? So just over 20 minutes a day.
> 
> Obviously no-one knows at this point, this is pure assumption.


I'd expect even the most severe to be longer than that, because some chronically-ill people basically need more, so clamping it down to 20 minutes a day would be condemning some to unnecessary sickness and possibly at the extreme death. I wouldn't be surprised to see it cut to 1-2 hours in a further lockdown, but a distance limit seems more likely.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

I have already been going for a walk in the evening about 9pm for about 75 mins round village. I see one other person in all that time an old guy walking his dog. I am happy with that no risk to me or anyone. If I went out for 20 mins on Sunday afternoon probably more risk.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

As posted previously I am thinking of going for a bike ride around 2 to 2.5 hours but will also go when there are very few other people out - for example early morning or late evening as with my walk to minimise any contact. If I went out at 9pm as per my walk and tsuck to quieter lanes I don't think I would come across many people at all if my walk round the village at a similar time is anything to go by. Roads are very quiet then to.


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## matticus (25 Mar 2020)

2 completely new threats on my commute this week:
- cyclists using MY sustrans route on the right. I saw a VERY near miss yesterday! There are numerous non-regulars have suddenly appeared, why they choose to go out during rush-hour, at +2'c is, I guess, none of my business :P
- drivers testing their V-max on lovely empty roads. just today there were 2 loons heading towards me (tailgating) at well over 70 (in a 60 limit); it's rare to see cars get over 50 in rush-hour.
Then when I got into work, my team-mate admitted to touching 100 on the same stretch earlier!

Luckily, I don't these things are important in the grand scheme, but you know how the little things sometimes get to you … !


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> As posted previously I am thinking of going for a bike ride around 2 to 2.5 hours but will also go when there are very few other people out - for example early morning or late evening as with my walk to minimise any contact. If I went out at 9pm as per my walk and tsuck to quieter lanes I don't think I would come across many people at all if my walk round the village at a similar time is anything to go by. Roads are very quiet then to.


See posts above about minimising time outside


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> 2 completely new threats on my commute this week:
> - cyclists using MY sustrans route on the right. I saw a VERY near miss yesterday! There are numerous non-regulars have suddenly appeared, why they choose to go out during rush-hour, at +2'c is, I guess, none of my business :P
> - drivers testing their V-max on lovely empty roads. just today there were 2 loons heading towards me (tailgating) at well over 70 (in a 60 limit); it's rare to see cars get over 50 in rush-hour.
> Then when I got into work, my team-mate admitted to touching 100 on the same stretch earlier!
> ...


They're important if the tw@ts crash and end up needing medical care...I hope you pointed that out to your colleague


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## matticus (25 Mar 2020)

You're completely right, Vicks, but sometimes you have to pick your battles.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> See posts above about minimising time outside



Do you think I should do something differently and if so for what reason and to what end?


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Do you think I should do something differently and if so for what reason and to what end?


My fear is that people stretch the rules, they will be tightened further

Personally, I'm restricting my suburban, observing social distancing cycling to an hour. That would be pretty normal for me (maybe more at weekends). Is 2-2.5 hours a day cycling normal for you? Presumably you are alternating walk/cycle days as the permitted rules?

Ultimately though it's up to you to decide (and the authorities to enforce)


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

There are no authorities at 9pm in my village to see how long my evening walk is nor anyone else for that matter. I am happy by going out at 9pm I am no risk to anyone and that is what matters. Other than my family my social interaction is zero and will be until we need to go to the shops when we run out of food.


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> There are no authorities at 9pm in my village to see how long my evening walk is nor anyone else for that matter. I am happy by going out at 9pm I am no risk to anyone and that is what matters. Other than my family my social interaction is zero and will be until we need to go to the shops when we run out of food.


fair enough


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## Mo1959 (25 Mar 2020)

Just back a quick spin. Just under 17 miles so a little bit over an hour. I feel that is plenty to keep myself ticking over without abusing it.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> My fear is that people stretch the rules, they will be tightened further



There is that and also the risk that others who may be tempted to go outside but don’t have a good reason will feel emboldened and copy those who are ‘stretching the rules to the limit’. And for what? Can’t some people forego their normal routine for a few weeks?


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> There is that and also the risk that others who may be tempted to go outside but don’t have a good reason will feel emboldened and copy those who are ‘stretching the rules to the limit’. And for what? Can’t some people forego their normal routine for a few weeks?



How long do you think a period of exercise should be?


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> How long do you think a period of exercise should be?


The NHS rec has always been a minimum of 30 mins a day. 
I get pain and stiffness if I’m not active and encouraged by my specialist to be as active as possible. I’ve figured an hour a day away from home acceptable for ‘minimal’
I usually do 1-2 hours a day so the extra will be at home (turbo, gardening, stretching)


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> My fear is that people stretch the rules, they will be tightened further
> 
> Personally, I'm restricting my suburban, observing social distancing cycling to an hour. That would be pretty normal for me (maybe more at weekends). Is 2-2.5 hours a day cycling normal for you? Presumably you are alternating walk/cycle days as the permitted rules?
> 
> Ultimately though it's up to you to decide (and the authorities to enforce)


 
I don't normally go out every day on my bike but at the weekend previously might do anything up to 6 hours which is clearly not now reasonable. 

I am mainly so far going for a walk with my family at 9pm which is partly to get them out the house for some exercise each day. 

I will only go out once a day so either a walk or cycle. 

I came back home on Sunday afternoon because I was unhappy with how many people were out. Hence now going out later.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> There are no authorities at 9pm in my village to see how long my evening walk is nor anyone else for that matter. I am happy by going out at 9pm I am no risk to anyone and that is what matters. Other than my family my social interaction is zero and will be until we need to go to the shops when we run out of food.



I don't think anybody doubts your actions would lead to any risk.

The point that I have made is that it is not about the risk our actions may incur, but about acting as a society as a whole. 

In doing so, we are all in it together. If we all decide to risk assess individually, even if that shows no risk, the system fails. 

The cunundrum is more about our attitude to following the guidelines for the benefit of the whole society, as oppose to our individual attitude to risk.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2020)

It’s a difficult one. To have a good chance of social isolation the country lanes are the best for your cycle ride / exercise. But to get there and do a loop may take you over what many consider minimising time. If you minimise time you may end up on crowded cycle ways or roads because everyone is close to home in high density urban areas. This is what has been happening in some of the parks which are surrounded by large numbers of people.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> How long do you think a period of exercise should be?



NHS advice is two and a half hours of moderate exercise per week. You can do that across several days or just one.


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## OldShep (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> How long do you think a period of exercise should be?


If you don’t come into any contact with person or object other than your bike or your shoes. Why oh why does it need to be time restricted?


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

OldShep said:


> If you don’t come into any contact with person or object other than your bike or your shoes. Why oh why does it need to be time restricted?


If there is no traffic on the road, why do I have to adhere to the speed limit?


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> If there is no traffic on the road, why do I have to adhere to the speed limit?



Cause one is a risk and the other isn't


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Cause one is a risk and the other isn't


But there is no traffic on the road, so no risk.


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## vickster (25 Mar 2020)

OldShep said:


> If you don’t come into any contact with person or object other than your bike or your shoes. Why oh why does it need to be time restricted?


Ask UK gov ( you can address questions via the BBC website), they have requested that time outside the house should be minimised. It’s a blanket request not rural vs suburban vs urban for example


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> But there is no traffic on the road, so no risk.



If there are no other pedestrians or cyclists on the road you can't give or receive the virus to them or from them.

If you are the only car on the road speeding you can crash.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Ask UK gov ( you can address questions via the BBC website), they have requested that time outside the house should be minimised. It’s a blanket request not rural vs suburban vs urban for example



The problem is what does mimimised mean? If you go out for 20 minutes you could have gone out for ten, if you went out for ten you could stay at home. You say you go out for an hour - but how do you work that out as being the "correct" amount of time versus some longer or shorter period. It's a judgement call. There is no right answer I am sure we are all doing what we think is reasonable in the circumstances.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> If there are no other pedestrians or cyclists on the road you can't give or receive the virus to them or from them.
> 
> If you are the only car on the road speeding you can crash.


Why would I be more likely to crash in a car, on a road without traffic, as oppose to crashing a bicycle, on a road without traffic. 

Again, you are focusing on attitude to individual risk, as oppose to attitude to the rules of society. 

Only my observations, and we won't argue.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> Why would I be more likely to crash in a car, on a road without traffic, as oppose to crashing a bicycle, on a road without traffic.
> 
> Again, you are focusing on attitude to individual risk, as oppose to attitude to the rules of society.
> 
> Only my observations, and we won't argue.



My thinking was that driving over the speed limit would make you more likely to crash irrespective of other vehicles. I am not advocating cycling in a dangerous manor in the current circumstances - or any others come to that. If you go out on your bike currently take extra care and if you go in a car likewise and don't speed.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> My thinking was that driving over the speed limit would make you more likely to crash irrespective of other vehicles. I am not advocating cycling in a dangerous manor in the current circumstances - or any others come to that. If you go out on your bike currently take extra care and if you go in a car likewise and don't speed.


My thinking was that cycling for 2 hours means you are more likely to crash than cycling for 1 hour. This could be extended, and as you rightly say, where do you draw the line? As things appear to be heading, the Government may well have to implement some form of direction. 

I am working in the perception of society in general. They would not look at the actual risk, but if it is really appropriate at this time to be riding a bike for hours. 

Likewise, I never ride dangerously and always take care. It still did not stop me breaking my back and neck, with all the emergency resources that took up (see previous). 

Life still has to go on, and exercise is good for our physical and mental wellbeing. My perception (and only mine, so no criticism of others) is that we are in a period of extreme risk minimisation, and to do what we can to help that. 

I'll leave it at that. 

For all who do venture out, for however long, safe riding.


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## matticus (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> I am working in the perception of society in general. They would not look at the actual risk, but if it is really appropriate at this time to be riding a bike for hours.


Unless you are doing laps round their house (or office window), how are they going to know?

I'm generally someone who DOES follow rules (in most cases because of the _what-if-everyone-broke-them _test), but for this SPECIFIC case, it's clear to me that the INTENTION of the rules is far far more important than obeying the letter, or "being seen to obey".


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> If there is no traffic on the road, why do I have to adhere to the speed limit?


Exactly - and who does? Nobody


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

I had intended to keep to a town loop - ten miles or so - but have found when I went out mid morning that there are enough cars, joggers, strollers, dog walkers about - and fair enough they are all keeping their distance - to make me change instead to my standard winter route out in the lanes, just under thirty miles. It’s a flat route, very safe, I know it by heart and I have reverted to going out at 4:30am back before 6:30. I see nobody the whole time. It is a route and a distance I do daily anyway so I struggle to see any harm in it, or any “taking advantage”.


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## OldShep (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> My thinking was that cycling for 2 hours means you are more likely to crash than cycling for 1 hour. This could be extended, and as you rightly say, where do you draw the line? As things appear to be heading, the Government may well have to implement some form of direction.
> 
> I am working in the perception of society in general. They would not look at the actual risk, but if it is really appropriate at this time to be riding a bike for hours.
> 
> ...


To hold water your thinking would have to assume you’re totally safe in the home. I’m sure there’s accidents in the home.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

Velochris said:


> Likewise, I never ride dangerously and always take care. It still did not stop me breaking my back and neck, with all the emergency resources that took up (see previous).


So I looked back at previous and in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cycling-uk-advice-coronavirus.258555/post-5924652 you say that you cannot remember a while before the crash, so I don't think you can be so sure you didn't take a risk even just that once.

I've not yet needed an ambulance but my three A&E visits (as far as I can recall - see past rants about what meds have done to my memory) have been two from running and one from eating dinner. I'm probably safer cycling!

Even so, I am still taking extra care like double-checking at junctions because of surprises like high-speed muppet motorists enabled by clearer roads and I urge you all to be cautious. The roads are empty enough now that you can probably still get around faster than usual even then.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

OldShep said:


> To hold water your thinking would have to assume you’re totally safe in the home. I’m sure there’s accidents in the home.



Not really. That would only apply if I had said I am totally safe at home. I'm not, but on balance, I am safer at home, than riding a bike. Hence minimising, not eliminating risk.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

OldShep said:


> If you don’t come into any contact with person or object other than your bike or your shoes. Why oh why does it need to be time restricted?


Do we how long this bug lives outdoors yet? Or is there a chance that rider A coughs it onto the floor, then it gets carried around on rider B's tyres, possibly handled when B checks their tyres, then introduced into B's home and eventually community... the minimisation order is trying to reduce the links between different communities so that the virus stops spreading so fast.


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## Velochris (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> So I looked back at previous and in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/cycling-uk-advice-coronavirus.258555/post-5924652 you say that you cannot remember a while before the crash, so I don't think you can be so sure you didn't take a risk even just that once.
> 
> I've not yet needed an ambulance but my three A&E visits (as far as I can recall - see past rants about what meds have done to my memory) have been two from running and one from eating dinner. I'm probably safer cycling!
> 
> Even so, I am still taking extra care like double-checking at junctions because of surprises like high-speed muppet motorists enabled by clearer roads and I urge you all to be cautious. The roads are empty enough now that you can probably still get around faster than usual even then.


A good point well made. I truly cannot say I did not take a risk. What I can say is that I set off intending not to take a risk, which is what we all do, but incidents can still happen.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Do we how long this bug lives outdoors yet? Or is there a chance that rider A coughs it onto the floor, then it gets carried around on rider B's tyres, possibly handled when B checks their tyres, then introduced into B's home and eventually community... the minimisation order is trying to reduce the links between different communities so that the virus stops spreading so fast.



No idea but don't touch your face, wash you hands thoroughly as soon as you get in, wash your gloves and possibly also cycling kit. Best to be on the safe side.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Do we how long this bug lives outdoors yet? Or is there a chance that rider A coughs it onto the floor, then it gets carried around on rider B's tyres, possibly handled when B checks their tyres, then introduced into B's home and eventually community... the minimisation order is trying to reduce the links between different communities so that the virus stops spreading so fast.


But of course rider B washes his hands when he/she gets home as we are all supposed to and so - la! - no more virus...

one can imagine all sorts of hypothetical possibilities. Billion to one odds still means there’s a chance but what sane person or society leads their lives that way?


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## matticus (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Do we how long this bug lives outdoors yet? Or is there a chance that rider A coughs it onto the floor, then it gets carried around on rider B's tyres, possibly handled when B checks their tyres, then introduced into B's home and eventually community... the minimisation order is trying to reduce the links between different communities so that the virus stops spreading so fast.


Nobody has numbers for this stuff, but the chances of transmission via this mechanism are tiny.

When you compare with the chances at
- shopping in a supermarket, let alone
- sharing a crowded tube,

… the difference is several (many?! ) orders of magnitude. As this is a numbers/probability game, you can just ignore it. The spread IS happening, 99.9999% of it will be due to the High Risk situations like the two I mention above.

Bike rides are just irrelevant - I say that hand-on-heart. (group rides are probably another small step up the risk ladder … gawd knows how small that step is, it's pretty irrelevant with the current restrictions!)


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> But of course rider B washes his hands when he/she gets home as we are all supposed to and so - la! - no more virus...


If we know rider B doesn't follow the advice on minimising time outdoors, what reason is there to think that they follow the advice on hand-washing?



> one can imagine all sorts of hypothetical possibilities. Billion to one odds still means there’s a chance but what sane person or society leads their lives that way?


Well, it was just one example. There's probably a greater risk of rider A accidentally coughing or sneezing onto some object like a gate that walker C touches.

Yes, we can't eliminate all risk, but we're playing the numbers here. Each extra circulation of a person outside their own community is another possible transmission vector and long exercise rides look like vectors that could probably be minimised - and if we don't minimise them ourselves, Big Brother Boris will probably do it for us in the next stage of lock-down unless there's a more obvious target like another weekend of fools crowding on the beaches.

More people probably are being infected in supermarkets or on commuter transport, but those are more difficult to tackle. As I've opined on other threads, cyclists are not valued in the UK and don't protest as much as motorists, so we're an easy target and any measures against us will be fully backed by the Daily Hate and FU Express.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

There are over 100,000 people in Italy (with a similar population level to the UK) who have been fined for breaching the restrictions, no doubt a great number of those think they’re doing no harm and came up with similarly manufactured justifications for being outside.

But that’s over 100,000 more possible vectors for transmission.

Working out ways to circumvent the clear stay-at-home advice isn’t clever, it’s selfish.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

Nobody is manufacturing reasons for being outside or trying to subvert the quarantine! In case you missed the news, everyone is allowed one exercise per day - of unspecified length. Entirely permissible! People on this site are discussing - intelligently and responsibly for the most part - ways to maintain fitness while adhering to both the letter and the spirit of the regulations.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Nobody is manufacturing reasons for being outside or trying to subvert the quarantine! In case you missed the news, everyone is allowed one exercise per day - of unspecified length. Entirely permissible! People on this site are discussing - intelligently and responsibly for the most part - ways to maintain fitness while adhering to both the letter and the spirit of the regulations.



In case you missed it, there’s a contribution up-thread where someone is talking about doing a 3hour ride and suggesting this is okay because it doesn’t breach the guidelines but is “stretching them to the limit”.
The guidance is to *minimise *your time outside, even for exercise.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> In case you missed it, there’s a contribution up-thread where someone is talking about doing a 3hour ride and suggesting this is okay because it doesn’t breach the guidelines but is “stretching them to the limit”.
> The guidance is to *minimise *your time outside, even for exercise.


What "limit" is this you are referring to? The prescribed one exercise a day was of no specified length. If one is truly to *minimise* time - and take that word and meaning literally, as you seem to be doing - that means zero. None. Zilch. That is the minimum - or if you do not wish to consider zero a number, then make it one second. Anything above that is no longer a minimum. 

The more sensible discussion was about what is _reasonable_ under the circumstances, and that will vary by location - three hours on a lonely road in the Scottish highlands is not the same as three hours tooling around London.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> What "limit" is this you are referring to? The prescribed one exercise a day was of no specified length. If one is truly to *minimise* time - and take that word and meaning literally, as you seem to be doing - that means zero. None. Zilch. That is the minimum - or if you do not wish to consider zero a number, then make it one second. Anything above that is no longer a minimum.
> 
> The more sensible discussion was about what is _reasonable_ under the circumstances, and that will vary by location - three hours on a lonely road in the Scottish highlands is not the same as three hours tooling around London.



I was quoting someone else, I didn't refer to any limit.

Your definition of minimising makes no sense for it amounts to not doing it at all.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I was quoting someone else, I didn't refer to any limit.
> 
> Your definition of minimising makes no sense for it amounts to not doing it at all.


That’s why I moved from zero to one second. Make it one minute if you prefer - a hundred yards down the road and back. That’s certainly minimising


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Local Facebook group. No reports from the public concerned about cyclists going for too long or too far. No reports of my 75 min walk round the village after 9pm. Quite a substantial number of reports of groups of teenagers ignoring the quarantine and roaming the streets in groups and on bikes saying they are young and fit so it does not apply to them.


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## C R (25 Mar 2020)

My brother shared this a few days ago about the situation in Spain






It reads
Today's data from the health and interior ministries
21328 infected
30000 cautioned by police
350 arrested
We have more idiots than sick people


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> That’s why I moved from zero to one second. Make it one minute if you prefer - a hundred yards down the road and back. That’s certainly minimising



I don’t know why you’d want to go to that extreme, there’d be no benefit.

NHS advice suggests a minimum of 150 minutes per week as part of a healthy lifestyle. I would argue that in these extreme circumstances there’s no necessity for anyone to exceed that outdoors, or at least not by much. And there are plenty of options to exercise without going out in public places.


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## screenman (25 Mar 2020)

The village face b page is having a rant about all the lycra clad bankers out on their bikes today some in groups.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I don’t know why you’d want to go to that extreme, there’d be no benefit.
> 
> NHS advice suggests a minimum of 150 minutes per week as part of a healthy lifestyle. I would argue that in these extreme circumstances there’s no necessity for anyone to exceed that outdoors, or at least not by much. And there are plenty of options to exercise without going out in public places.


I mentioned the extreme because you put extra emphasis on minimise in your post. I illustrated what minimise could mean. So it seems you don’t really mean minimise but reduce to a level you feel is appropriate - that is fine for you, but you are not in charge and your arbitrary ruling on what it means to minimise doesn’t bind anyone else.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

I suspect that the reality is a lot are ignoring the advice. Reports of busy road in the Peak district beauty spots also.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I mentioned the extreme because you put extra emphasis on minimise in your post. I illustrated what minimise could mean. So it seems you don’t really mean minimise but reduce to a level you feel is appropriate - that is fine for you, but you are not in charge and your arbitrary ruling on what it means to minimise doesn’t bind anyone else.



I emphasised it for two reasons; you had referred to exercise of “unspecified length” and I didn’t want anyone to take from that that exercise time outside was limitless, and to make the point that the 3hour ride referred to by another poster was not, in my view, in the spirit of the restrictions.

To me, minimise means doing it only for as long as necessary to achieve the benefit.


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## geocycle (25 Mar 2020)

If the weather was it’s usual wet and windy self we would probably not be having these discussions.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I emphasised it for two reasons; you had referred to exercise of “unspecified length” and I didn’t want anyone to take from that that exercise time outside was limitless, and to make the point that the 3hour ride referred to by another poster was not, in my view, in the spirit of the restrictions.
> 
> To me, minimise means doing it only for as long as necessary to achieve the benefit.


I referred to unspecified length because - guess what? - no time or distance limit was specified and, as far as I am aware, has still not been specified. It was left to conscience and personal judgement. The fact that people on this site are discussing this suggests to me they are looking for reasonable compromise not a way to flout the quarantine. Those who truly don’t care won’t be on here arguing for or against anything but will be out making nuisances of themselves. The fact that you, and I, and others on here care enough to argue over this is, to my way of thinking, a good thing. We take responsibility but have different, legitimate interpretations of what is reasonable no doubt depending on our locations and personal lives.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> I referred to unspecified length because - guess what? - no time or distance limit was specified and, as far as I am aware, has still not been specified.


It has been specified, but as two opposing directives to exercise but minimise time away from home. I'm disappointed some have the mentality of stroppy teenagers and say the lack of exact time limit means they can go on a wild-camping tour. It's that sort of shoot which will enable a French-style hard-and-low limit.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

People on here seem interested in doing the right thing. I doubt they are the people we really need to worry about.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> It has been specified, but as two opposing directives to exercise but minimise time away from home. I'm disappointed some have the mentality of stroppy teenagers and say the lack of exact time limit means they can go on a wild-camping tour. It's that sort of shoot which will enable a French-style hard-and-low limit.


Who suggested a wild camping tour? I don’t recall that post.

And what length of time or distance was specified? I don’t recall that either. Please enlighten


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Who suggested a wild camping tour? I don’t recall that post.


I checked and that was on another forum. Sorry for any confusion.



> And what length of time or distance was specified? I don’t recall that either. Please enlighten


See above. It is specified but not as a simple unconditional number - it's long enough to get the exercise you need but short enough to minimise time away from home.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> I checked and that was on another forum. Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> 
> See above. It is specified but not as a simple unconditional number - it's long enough to get the exercise you need but short enough to minimise time away from home.


in other words it is not specified but left up to the individual and their needs.


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> in other words it is not specified but left up to the individual and their needs.


Those are words with different meaning.


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Those are words with different meaning.


Specified comes from the word specific. There is nothing specific about the length, in distance or duration, of the exercise outing we are permitted.


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## gavgav (25 Mar 2020)

After a chat with my boss, who said I need to get out for my own Mental Health, I decided to do a 16 mile ride, just under 1&1/2 hours, this evening and I feel so much better for doing it. That will be my limit on length of ride, until this is over. To be honest, I’m actually likely to be closer to people, out in my back garden, with small gardens and neighbours either side, than I am out on a bike!


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## johnnyb47 (25 Mar 2020)

This keeping 2 metres apart from others really can't apply to cyclists either. If a cyclist was 2 metres in front and sneezed you would be in the point of where they sneezed much quicker than opposed to say walking. It's a no brainer that cycling should only be done solo at the moment.


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## Mo1959 (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Specified comes from the word specific. There is nothing specific about the length, in distance or duration, of the exercise outing we are permitted.


I do believe Michael Gove said as long as we would normally ride. I won’t abuse it though and will mostly keep it between 15 and 20 miles. More than enough to keep fitness levels up.


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## johnnyb47 (25 Mar 2020)

I also think if you do want to get out and exercise that little further and longer, pick quiet back roads away from potential people and traffic. Riding through built up areas usually entails stop start traffic. Motorists will have there windows down in the warm weather which is not a good idea when your stuck by them at the lights. Some cyclists will also hold onto street furniture (such as safety railings) at traffic lights, so they don't have to unclip their cycling shoes. Not a good idea as they've probably been touched hundreds of times a day by Tom dick and Harry. Pick a quiet route where you can stop for a breather in quiet surroundings and virtually no people around. If we cycle sensibly with a little forward planning it will pose very little risk to us or others


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## mjr (25 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Specified comes from the word specific. There is nothing specific about the length, in distance or duration, of the exercise outing we are permitted.


But it is specified.

I fear you may be confusing "specific" and "exact".


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## hoopdriver (25 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> But it is specified.
> 
> I fear you may be confusing "specific" and "exact".


I’m not the one who is confused.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Just back from my 75 minute walk with the family, saw three other people a couple and the usual dog walker. We all kept well away from each other.


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## lane (25 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> I do believe Michael Gove said as long as we would normally ride. I won’t abuse it though and will mostly keep it between 15 and 20 miles. More than enough to keep fitness levels up.



Yes I heard that as well but not seen a link. Nonetheless I would have never taken his advice on anything in the past so won't start now. I suspect his knowledge of cycling is quite limited.


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Is there a rule about how many of a single family can go out together? I thought families could exercise together but am now being told only two at a time. Should't really have to be hunting round for the guidance on the web it should be a bit clearer in my view.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

Members of your household. Bear in mind though, you all need to stay in a tight group and not have little ones scootering/cycling/running/toddling off!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

I’d use this as the primary source (not news reports  )


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## matticus (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> People on here seem interested in doing the right thing. I doubt they are the people we really need to worry about.


yes, this is the main thing. 

easily forgotten during all the hair-splitting!


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Members of your household. Bear in mind though, you all need to stay in a tight group and not have little ones scootering/cycling/running/toddling off!
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
> 
> I’d use this as the primary source (not news reports  )



Yes I think Mrs Lane has seen something on TV news about groups of people and extrapolated it to us going out as a family of four.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Yes I think Mrs Lane has seen something on TV news about groups of people and extrapolated it to us going out as a family of four.


If you're all adults, you could go out separately in pairs
Small children, there's no issue


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> If you're all adults, you could go out separately in pairs
> Small children, there's no issue



Why would we need to go out separately in pairs when that is not the guidence?


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Why would we need to go out separately in pairs when that is not the guidence?


I misunderstood what you said maybe
Although it might give you a break from the family


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> Ah, Cycling UK, those famous health and epidemiology experts.
> 
> It seems simple to me:
> 
> ...



Don't think that is correct. If you are in a high risk group - *then you shouldn't go out at all* - (As an asthmatic it seems daft to me) - So the only cycling you can do is indoors. Hope I am wrong but thats my reading of it -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19

The measures are:

Strictly avoid contact with someone who is displaying symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19). These symptoms include high temperature and/or new and continuous cough.
Do not leave your house.
Do not attend any gatherings. This includes gatherings of friends and families in private spaces, for example, family homes, weddings and religious services.
Do not go out for shopping, leisure or travel and, when arranging food or medication deliveries, these should be left at the door to minimise contact.
Keep in touch using remote technology such as phone, internet, and social media.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Don't think that is correct. If you are in a high risk group - *then you shouldn't go out at all* - (As an asthmatic it seems daft to me) - So the only cycling you can do is indoors. Hope I am wrong but thats my reading of it -


It depends if you are on the 1.5m specific shield list (like my friend who is immunosuppressed due to lymphoma) vs. being over 70 / having a condition that places you at higher risk but not on the list. The former should not go out, the others are permitted to go out and shop for essentials / try exercise like the rest of us if they feel it is appropriate to their own situation

Ultimately, if you're not on the shield list but have health problems that place you at higher risk should you contract CV19, consider your own situation and whether it is appropriate to go away from home (or stay in and seek help from the household or a volunteer)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

More info https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> *It depends if you are on the 1.5m specific shield list* (like my friend who is immunosuppressed due to lymphoma) vs. being over 70 / having a condition that places you at higher risk but not on the list. The former should not go out, the others are permitted to go out and shop for essentials / try exercise like the rest of us if they feel it is appropriate to their own situation
> 
> Ultimately, if you're not on the shield list but have health problems that place you at higher risk should you contract CV19, consider your own situation and whether it is appropriate to go away from home (or stay in and seek help from the household or a volunteer)
> 
> ...



That what I was calling the high risk group. I think I am on that because of the inhaler I take. Although if I wasn't a cyclist I probably wouldn't take the inhaler !


----------



## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> That what I was calling the high risk group. I think I am on that because of the inhaler I take. Although if I wasn't a cyclist I probably wouldn't take the inhaler !


Have you heard yet whether you are on the list?


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Have you heard yet whether you are on the list?



NO - but per the asthma UK website - because I take triotpuim I will be. - but my GP isn't the best - so would be surprised if I heard anything.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> NO - but per the asthma UK website - because I take triotpuim I will be. - but my GP isn't the best - so would be surprised if I heard anything.


Have you tried to call them?


----------



## lane (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> I misunderstood what you said maybe
> Although it might give you a break from the family



Yes good point! Will go out on the bike occasionally for that. Just been trying to make sure they do go out each day think it does them good.


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Have you tried to call them?


Who my GP or Asthma UK ? - I have so little confidence in my GP and Asthma UK have a banner saying they are extremely busy - I don't really want to add to that to ask 'Can I go out on my bike !!"


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> That what I was calling the high risk group. I think I am on that because of the inhaler I take. Although if I wasn't a cyclist I probably wouldn't take the inhaler !




Like Chris Froome then!!

I am also on the high risk group. I have (mild) asthma. But I am taking it seriously because it is a lung condition. I will still go out for exercise but would prefer to do so when it is quieter and I am less likely to come into contact.


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## mjr (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Who my GP or Asthma UK ? - I have so little confidence in my GP and Asthma UK have a banner saying they are extremely busy - I don't really want to add to that to ask 'Can I go out on my bike !!"


So ask "should I go out to exercise or not?" I think they'll be happy to handle a genuine call, from some of the shoot I've been reading about various helplines getting.

And if you survive this, please change your farking GP if at all possible. Being registered to one you don't trust is a waste of your time and their available registrations IMO.


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Like Chris Froome then!!
> 
> I am also on the high risk group. I have (mild) asthma. But I am taking it seriously because it is a lung condition. I will still go out for exercise but would prefer to do so when it is quieter and I am less likely to come into contact.



Thats the sensible thing to do - However if youre inhaler puts you in the high risk group - then you would (IMO) be breaching the guidelines - by leaving the house.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Who my GP or Asthma UK ? - I have so little confidence in my GP and Asthma UK have a banner saying they are extremely busy - I don't really want to add to that to ask 'Can I go out on my bike !!"


GP - I assume the question is 'am I on the shielding list' If they don't know, ask to speak to Dr / asthma nurse to check (and clarify as triotropium taken)


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Like Chris Froome then!!
> 
> I am also on the high risk group. I have (mild) asthma. But I am taking it seriously because it is a lung condition. I will still go out for exercise but would prefer to do so when it is quieter and I am less likely to come into contact.


If you've been told to shield for 12 weeks you should NOT be going out at all (other than in garden) - check with GP if no letter / text received (friend of mine got text on Monday)


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Who my GP or Asthma UK ? - I have so little confidence in my GP and Asthma UK have a banner saying they are extremely busy - I don't really want to add to that to ask 'Can I go out on my bike !!"



I posted the latest cycling UK advice previously and suggest that you read it

https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle

I think that the relevant bit for you is:

"Roger Geffen (RG): The answer we received from PHE suggests that if your chronic condition is relatively mild, you can follow the same advice as that for the over 70s."

The advice for over 70s which also applies to you is

"H: Yes, but with *particular caution *(my bold). The latest advice is to remain at home for the next twelve weeks to protect yourself from infection.

Public Health England (PHE): If you're from a vulnerable group but feel that you need to take a walk or go for a bike ride, choose a route where you are unlikely to meet any other people or take your exercise at a quieter time.

This will reduce the risk of exposure to other people. Exercise at home or in your garden is encouraged where possible, for example on a turbo trainer or an exercise bike if you have access to one.

Tissue use and hand washing advice is as above."

*PARTICULAR CAUTION* is what I have taken note of. Therefore I will go out when not many other people are likely to be out.


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> So ask "should I go out to exercise or not?" I think they'll be happy to handle a genuine call, from some of the shoot I've been reading about various helplines getting.
> 
> And if you survive this, please change your farking GP if at all possible. Being registered to one you don't trust is a waste of your time and their available registrations IMO.



Yes you are quite correct about my GP - the only reason I stay is because I have fought them many times over refusing to refer me for back / respiratory conditions and for my kids - If I moved GP would I have to fight those battles over again.

Heres an example of the service the lead GP gives 

Mate of mine went to see him about knee pain - the GP didn't even look at him, let alone examine him - but said "thats arthritis rest and take some ibuprofen" - whole consultation took 90 seconds !


----------



## lane (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> If you've been told to shield for 12 weeks you should NOT be going out at all (other than in garden) - check with GP if no letter / text received (friend of mine got text on Monday)



Sorry badly worded - not one of the 1.5 million but lower risk have to act like I am over 70


----------



## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Yes you are quite correct about my GP - the only reason I stay is because I have fought them many times over refusing to refer me for back / respiratory conditions and for my kids - If I moved GP would I have to fight those battles over again.
> 
> Heres an example of the service the lead GP gives
> 
> Mate of mine went to see him about knee pain - the GP didn't even look at him, let alone examine him - but said "thats arthritis rest and take some ibuprofen" - whole consultation took 90 seconds !


And did the rest and ibuprofen help, presuming he properly complied with the advice given proper rest and regular ibuprofen ? 
Standard advice for arthritis be it a GP or knee specialist  Arthritis is almost certainly the most common cause for non-traumatic knee pain in older adults (40+)

If proper rest and regular ibuprofen didn't help, presumably he went back for a more thorough check (possible referral to physio which is step 1)

How many GPs are there at your practice?


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I posted the latest cycling UK advice previously and suggest that you read it
> 
> https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle
> 
> ...



Thanks - It would be good if .gov.uk updated there advice TBF i suppose they have higher priorities at the moment.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Yes you are quite correct about my GP - the only reason I stay is because I have fought them many times over refusing to refer me for back / respiratory conditions and for my kids - *If I moved GP would I have to fight those battles over again.*
> 
> Heres an example of the service the lead GP gives
> 
> Mate of mine went to see him about knee pain - the GP didn't even look at him, let alone examine him - but said "thats arthritis rest and take some ibuprofen" - whole consultation took 90 seconds !


Why if your GP truly is rubbish as you suggest compared to the others in your locality? There may be no battle to fight


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## mjr (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> If I moved GP would I have to fight those battles over again.


Or you might get one who you think is not a dick, especially if you check for comments/reviews first on local gossip groups and NHS Choices.

I had a GP who didn't refer me as he ought, then wouldn't, as I've described in other posts. In the end, a locum did. But my current GP didn't hesitate. They're not all crap.


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

Called GP - have a telephone consultation on Monday - fair enough.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> Called GP - have a telephone consultation on Monday - fair enough.


Good, easy to sort


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Good, easy to sort



I actually think they will tell me its ok - as my Asthma is mainly exercise induced (not attacks just breathless) - but also suffer from the big D and Anxiety - that would seem sensible - but will go with what they say.


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> I actually think they will tell me its ok - as my Asthma is mainly exercise induced (not attacks just breathless) - but also suffer from the big D and Anxiety - that would seem sensible - but will go with what they say.


Reassurance will be good in that case
But if asthma exercise linked, at the moment, perhaps sticking to a brisk walk once a day might be better at a level that doesn't cause breathlessness 👍


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Reassurance will be good in that case
> But if asthma exercise linked, at the moment, perhaps sticking to a brisk walk once a day might be better at a level that doesn't cause breathlessness 👍


its mainly when going uphill - trying to keep up with people 30 years younger than myself !


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## vickster (26 Mar 2020)

kingrollo said:


> its mainly when going uphill - trying to keep up with people 30 years younger than myself !


Ok I’m sure you know how you should best manage your own condition , regardless of the official and unofficial guidance


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

I have asthma all my life - more of a problem as a child but generally mild later in life. Never really given it a thought but always had the flu jab. Suddenly to be put into a higher risk group was a bit of a shock. But I can see how it might make contracting the virus more of a risk.


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I have asthma all my life - more of a problem as a child but generally mild later in life. Never really given it a thought but always had the flu jab. Suddenly to be put into a higher risk group was a bit of a shock. But I can see how it might make contracting the virus more of a risk.



Thats pretty much my circumstances - it was terrible as a kid - I missed months of school , and couldn't do PE etc - Inhalers were an absolute godsend when they came along.

IMO - if they keep people like you and I indoors - Thats 2 people less likely to need a hospital bed - so it makes sense - my own theory is that 12 weeks without any cardio activity would make me in not so good shape to battle the virus should I get it. But I have been preaching that everyone stick to the guidelines - so will do.


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Derbyshire police tweeted

"Essential travel and local exercise does not include lycra-clad cyclists on the now quieter roads"

According to who and what has it go to do with what you wear?


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## C R (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Derbyshire police tweeted
> 
> "Essential travel and local exercise does not include lycra-clad cyclists on the now quieter roads"
> 
> According to who and what has it go to do with what you wear?


So if I wear football shirt and shorts on a mammoth 200 mile ride I am ok?


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## hoopdriver (26 Mar 2020)

Just another power-happy badge flasher.


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## hoopdriver (26 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> So if I wear football shirt and shorts on a mammoth 200 mile ride I am ok?


As long as your football shirt is from the cop’s favourite team


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## BigMeatball (26 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> So if I wear football shirt and shorts on a mammoth 200 mile ride I am ok?



yes, but wear padded underwear at least. 200 miles in just shorts could be not fun


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Derbyshire police tweeted
> 
> "Essential travel and local exercise does not include lycra-clad cyclists on the now quieter roads"
> 
> According to who and what has it go to do with what you wear?



Derbyshire Police clearly don't have enough on. They've got their drones out... ...harassing dog walkers at near deserted car parks.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...0878a2a48aaad1#block-5e7cb10b8f0878a2a48aaad1


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## BigMeatball (26 Mar 2020)

People are so stupid! If everyone in the country behaves the same way as the people in my neighbourhood, I'm afraid we're going to get even stricter restrictions.

Day 4 of lockdown and on my neighbourhood facebook group it's already war between casual walkers and joggers/cyclists arguing about who "owns" the local parks and paths and who needs to give space to whom.

I'm going to call it right now: people are going to start to throw hands before the end of the week. Let's just hope I'm there when it happens


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## hoopdriver (26 Mar 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Derbyshire Police clearly don't have enough on. They've got their drones out... ...harassing dog walkers at near deserted car parks.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/politic...0878a2a48aaad1#block-5e7cb10b8f0878a2a48aaad1


You can just hear the chatter down at the Derbyshire Cop Shop - the lads all sitting about arguing over who gets to play with the new drone and who's turn it is next...


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## BigMeatball (26 Mar 2020)

One positive thing about this corona virus emergency is that, at least in my neighbourhood, the garbage men come and empty the bins twice a day


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> You can just hear the chatter down at the Derbyshire Cop Shop - the lads all sitting about arguing over who gets to play with the new drone and who's turn it is next...



Yeah, and the guy running their social media who's got a semi over how it might go viral.


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## matticus (26 Mar 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> People are so stupid! If everyone in the country behaves the same way as the people in my neighbourhood, I'm afraid we're going to get even stricter restrictions.
> 
> Day 4 of lockdown and on my neighbourhood facebook group it's already war between casual walkers and joggers/cyclists arguing about who "owns" the local parks and paths and who needs to give space to whom.
> 
> I'm going to call it right now: people are going to start to throw hands before the end of the week. Let's just hope I'm there when it happens


Make sure you're wearing a neutral outfit so you don't get roped in!

Luckily it's all been peace-and-love round here. So far.

two families out walking stepped off a rough (but dry) bridleway that I was honking up last night. I think they massively overestimated my fitness, it took me nearly a minute to ride past them all!


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## mjr (26 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> Just another power-happy badge flasher.


Yes, flashing their rusty Sherrif's badge all over social media!

They seem to have overreacted to what looks like a couple of cycle clubs stupidly going out on a group ride, but instead of fining the perpetrators, they've engaged in yet another bout of bike-bashing, like they've done before. Here it is, if you feel motivated to reply, but there are already some excellent ones, plus mine:

View: https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1243141455503413248?p=v


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Well I certainly wont be wearing my cycle club jersey when I go out!


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## kingrollo (26 Mar 2020)

Again people inventing sub rules - Boris clearly said in his speech Monday that cycling was allowed. If thats changed then fair enough - but it needs to come from .gov.uk


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Although if as @mjr has posted they reacted to people going out on a group ride they are very much in the right to do so but the wording on social media was not appropriate


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## matticus (26 Mar 2020)

Plod is a postcode lottery - some forces have been brilliant for cyclists in the last couple of years. Loads of close-pass prosecutions, active campaigning.
Some forces? Less so ...

Looks to me like those Derbyshire panda drivers are having a nice drive out into the countryside. Can't say I blame 'em!


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Yeah they would be better focusing on groups of young people hanging around locally


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## BigMeatball (26 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Yes, flashing their rusty Sherrif's badge all over social media!
> 
> They seem to have overreacted to what looks like a couple of cycle clubs stupidly going out on a group ride, but instead of fining the perpetrators, they've engaged in yet another bout of bike-bashing, like they've done before. Here it is, if you feel motivated to reply, but there are already some excellent ones, plus mine:



Derbyshire police proving themselves to be idiots twice: first time for posting that ridiculous abomination, and second time for not deleting the posts pronto.

It's almost like they're asking to be laughed at


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## hoopdriver (26 Mar 2020)

BigMeatball said:


> Derbyshire police proving themselves to be idiots twice: first time for posting that ridiculous abomination, and second time for not deleting the posts pronto.
> 
> It's almost like they're asking to be laughed at


Yes, and they wonder why the grown-ups won't let them have guns...


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## DaveReading (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Although if as @mjr has posted they reacted to people going out on a group ride they are very much in the right to do so but the wording on social media was not appropriate



"Lycra clad cyclists is in reference to what appeared to be members of cycling clubs in matching outfits riding in large groups along the 11 mile stretch of the A57 Snake Pass."

Sounds like a fair cop to me.


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## mjr (26 Mar 2020)

DaveReading said:


> "Lycra clad cyclists is in reference to what appeared to be members of cycling clubs in matching outfits riding in large groups along the 11 mile stretch of the A57 Snake Pass."
> 
> Sounds like a fair cop to me.


No, it's an invalid generalisation. It's that sort of nonsense which Constable Savage was based on, albeit on a much more serious topic...


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> No, it's an invalid generalisation. It's that sort of nonsense which Constable Savage was based on, albeit on a much more serious topic...


Had to Google it - used to really enjoy that


----------



## Dogtrousers (26 Mar 2020)

I have asthma that is tree pollen triggered, and we're just coming into my allergy season. Hasn't started yet … fingers crossed it may not be a bad year. I'm also lucky enough to own a turbo (bought last year) and have space for it and to quite enjoy using it. So I'm moving to 100% indoor cycling for the time being. If I do feel breathing problems coming on I can stop immediately. As we move into summer and the asthma risk drops I'll reassess that. 

My bike is also a bit damaged, and the fact that I can't just pop out to the LBS to get a new wheel and other parts means it'll likely stay that way for a while. But it's turbo-worthy.

It's depressing, but inevitable, that these circs will be used by the usual suspects as an excuse to have a pop at cycling in general, as is the case with the police quote above and the meme going around that if you go outside on a bike you are highly likely to end up taking up a bed in A&E because riding a bicycle is highly a dangerous activity, like base jumping or cave diving.


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Just re watched it - looks a bit out of date now. I don't think you could say coughing without due care and attention isn't an offence today


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> Just re watched it - looks a bit out of date now. I don't think you could say coughing without due care and attention isn't an offence today



But "Being in possession of black tights and skinny arms" apparently is...


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

Well, my cycle home from working at home featured extremely well mannered motorists, almost empty roads, and a loop through Derbyshire where, shockingly, a woman had parked in a deserted beauty spot and was brazenly walking her dog- without being arrested. 

Derbyshire plod need to pull their finger out pronto.


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## Drago (26 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Yes, flashing their rusty Sherrif's badge all over social media!
> 
> They seem to have overreacted to what looks like a couple of cycle clubs stupidly going out on a group ride, but instead of fining the perpetrators, they've engaged in yet another bout of bike-bashing, like they've done before. Here it is, if you feel motivated to reply, but there are already some excellent ones, plus mine:
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1243141455503413248?p=v



I've read the legislation, and it makes no mention of lycra. Cycling has been mandated as an acceptable form of exercise, either alone of with members if the same household. No mention of their attire.

Indeed, ath the time DerbsPol posted that the matter had not even been passed into law.


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

It's apparently going to be as cold as January over the weekend that should do the polices work for them.


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## johnnyb47 (26 Mar 2020)

Just reading the BBC news article on corona virus scammers. There sending out text messages, pretending to be the authorities with £250 fines for breaking the curfew rules. How low can these scumbags get in our "time of need" is appalling


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## nickyboy (26 Mar 2020)

DaveReading said:


> "Lycra clad cyclists is in reference to what appeared to be members of cycling clubs in matching outfits riding in large groups along the 11 mile stretch of the A57 Snake Pass."
> 
> Sounds like a fair cop to me.


I cycled over the Snake Pass today (Glossop to Ladybower and back again) and saw a couple of police cars which was unusual so these incidents probably explain why. There were several solo cyclists out and no probs with police by the look of things

What was an issue was probably about 50 motorcyclists so obviously there are a lot of bikers taking advantage of the quiet roads. Can't believe they'll get away with that for long


----------



## roubaixtuesday (26 Mar 2020)

johnnyb47 said:


> Just reading the BBC news article on corona virus scammers. There sending out text messages, pretending to be the authorities with £250 fines for breaking the curfew rules. How low can these scumbags get in our "time of need" is appalling



More to the point, why aren't plod apprehending them rather than harassing lone dog walkers?


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## lane (26 Mar 2020)

Just back from a 33km ride went out just after 8pm. Following advice for people in my (lower) risk group to go out at quieter times. Spotted one couple on the pavement was well away from them. Roads quiet but a bit of traffic about. Good to be out.


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## Crankarm (27 Mar 2020)

Pat "5mph" said:


> *Mod Note:
> this is an incorrect statement.
> Being retired does not put you automatically in a high risk group.*
> Facts here.



There is no mention of being retired in your link or indeed of elderly adults being more at risk of contracting CV and their need to remain at home. Bare in mind that 70% of those who have died from the CV in Spain are over 60 years old. I believe it is similar in Italy. Hold that figure in your mind and you will realise how vulnerable older people are to the CV, not expressly older people as the virus has claimed the lives of younger people as well, but older people i.e. over 70 years old and those with under lying medical conditions are seemingly so much more vulnerable and make up the bulk of the figures for people who haves sadly lost their lives. But if you are retired and over 70, that you believe you are in the peak of fitness and health, if you believe that if you contract the CV you have as good a chance of recovery as a much younger person, then you carry right on ignore the advice.

So when have those over 70 years of age been told to remain at home? Surely you cannot have missed Boris and his medical advisors making clear on several occasions during their nightly updates on TV that those who are 70 years old and over should remain at home isolated for 12 weeks? If you are 70 years old and over you are typically going to be retired, however some people still may still be working, I accept this. Indeed some younger people may have been lucky enough to be able to retire well before 65 years old, but for the most part those who have reached 70 years old will be retired and classed as vulnerable and even more at risk to CV.

Younger family members have also been told NOT to visit elderly parents or relatives. For Mother's Day the advice from Boris was NOT to visit your mother and potentially pass on CV to her or indeed your Dad, but to call or use Skype or similar. Younger people can be carriers without even being aware especially if they have not been tested and unknowingly pass the virus onto older family members.

I also have the impression that many contributors to this forum may well be retired or approaching retirement age so I am stirring ups hornets' nest. Not all contributors here are retired, many like me still work, but there are quite a few.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.


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## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> I've read the legislation, and it makes no mention of lycra.


The problem here is that cyclists are not a protected minority in the legislation, so they can be as rude and as bigoted as they like about us.

_Plus ca change_ ...


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> There is no mention of being retired in your link [...]


which is what the mod said. When in hole, stop digging! At best, you used "retired" as a lazy ageist synonym for "70+"


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## Mo1959 (27 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> which is what the mod said. When in hole, stop digging! At best, you used "retired" as a lazy ageist synonym for "70+"


Exactly...........I've been retired since 53. Nearly 61 now. Can't say I feel like I should be in the vulnerable group just yet.


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## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> Exactly...........I've been retired since 53. Nearly 61 now. Can't say I feel like I should be in the vulnerable group just yet.


Indeed and he was criticising a poster who is 65 not 70+


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## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

​
I might post this in every relevant thread until the Mods stop me!


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## StuAff (27 Mar 2020)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf

References to exercise make no reference whatsoever to limits. Any duration of exercise, any number of times, alone or with members of your household.


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## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

StuAff said:


> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf
> 
> References to exercise make no reference whatsoever to limits. Any duration of exercise, any number of times, alone or with members of your household.


Which bit is it in?
It really depends what your interpretation of minimise time outside is


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## StuAff (27 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Which bit is it in?
> It really depends what your interpretation of minimise time outside is


Page 4. And I quote:
"Restrictions on movement 6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse. (2)For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need— (a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2; (*b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household; *(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2; (d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(a), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;"


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## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

Not as clear as the .gov website under 1) staying at home
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

I guess you could use the statute in court if needed


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## lane (27 Mar 2020)

The police seem to have blanket power to tell you to go home and if you don't comply they can fine you. I don't think they actually need to prove you are in breach of the rules. Very odd though that the statute is not more specific.


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## ianrauk (27 Mar 2020)

The powers that be have banned cycling in Richmond Park


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## Ajax Bay (27 Mar 2020)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
Scrolling down that site rather than the first few lines, @vickster gives clear direction/interpretation
"You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:

one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
These reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home"
Cycle (or walk or run) from home, not drive somewhere and then exercise.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

StuAff said:


> Page 4. And I quote:
> "Restrictions on movement 6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse. (2)For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need— (a)to obtain basic necessities,  including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2; (*b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household; *(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2; (d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(a), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;"



That has to be read in conjunction with the government guidance on staying at home.

“You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:


shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.
These reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home”

Note the form of exercise is in the singular and the statement that you should be minimising the time outside.

It is not carte blanche to do hours and hours of riding, running, football or gymnastics away from your home.


[Edited to add: beaten to it by Ajax Bay]


----------



## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

ianrauk said:


> The powers that be have banned cycling in Richmond Park


Another force that's famously daffodils about cycling showing their love of bike-bashing. They claim "there is no current evidence of congestion" in the other parks, but don't actually show - or even say they have - evidence of congestion in Richmond Park either. https://www.royalparks.org.uk/media...ond-park-following-social-distancing-concerns

Each park that is closed means that local residents are then being kettled into smaller and smaller spaces, making congestion and thereby breach of the Coronavirus Restrictions more likely, which will then probably be used to close more spaces, and the spiral continues until people are genuinely trapped in their houses.

It would be a far better approach to open all the parks (including ones like the NT fenced/walled ones which have closed this week) and police unnecessary travel and maybe even distances.

Could it be that if the Royal Parks are closed, then the offences won't be on the RP turf giving that division more work and making their stats look bad?


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Note the form of exercise is in the singular and the statement that you should be minimising the time outside.
> 
> It is not carte blanche to do hours and hours of riding, running, football or gymnastics away from your home.


Let's not be too discouraging. What is "hours and hours"? I think there's good argument for up to 5 hours of exercise a week, on the grounds of this FAQ answer published by the Mayo Clinic: "You can achieve more health benefits if you ramp up your exercise to 300 minutes or more a week" - and surely we all want to be as healthy as possible to face this virus?

If you're in a job that has unpredictable uneven demand right now, I think there's an argument that you could do your weekly exercise in one or two outings because you don't know when you might next get chance. Just don't try 5 hours a day every day, else you could have a big problem if you do get found out. I doubt courts are going to be lenient on the worst examples of people taking the pee, which are probably going to be dragged before them if this continues long enough

And I think an arguable definition of "near home" is the distance which you're willing to walk the bike home if the bike breaks beyond a roadside repair, such as when my front hub bearings collapsed. Going to collect a friend with a farked bike is not a given exception to the stay-at-home regulation.


----------



## lane (27 Mar 2020)

With regard to parks the country parks here closed originally - then following the "lockdown" being introduced opened up again although car aprks closed. Very odd.

I did make the point at closing NT on a Facebook group. Someone said he went last Sunday and it was absolutely rammed - car park overflowing and he did not feel safe. It's difficult.


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## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> What is "hours and hours"? I think there's good argument for up to 5 hours of exercise a week,



I was referring to the duration of a single daily outing.


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I was referring to the duration of a single daily outing.


I know! But how long did you think you meant by that expression?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6gwC-EiFw4&t=50


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## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

Someone (in Norfolk?) has done a 325km ride this week. Look on the Stravaw**kers twitter account if you don't do Strava.

He did ride it well under 10hours, so chapeau! :P


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Someone (in Norfolk?) has done a 325km ride this week.


Professional athlete Joe Skipper, the British Ironman record holder. Cycling to work is permitted, isn't it? He's now deleted his Strava account to stop the sort of personal attack you just made.

View: https://twitter.com/Noaveragejoe88/status/1243290162760757248


----------



## Drago (27 Mar 2020)

Some things just aren't funny, although being nasty about it isn't justified.


----------



## classic33 (27 Mar 2020)

Crankarm said:


> There is no mention of being retired in your link or indeed of elderly adults being more at risk of contracting CV and their need to remain at home. Bare in mind that 70% of those who have died from the CV in Spain are over 60 years old. I believe it is similar in Italy. Hold that figure in your mind and you will realise how vulnerable older people are to the CV, not expressly older people as the virus has claimed the lives of younger people as well, but older people i.e. over 70 years old and those with under lying medical conditions are seemingly so much more vulnerable and make up the bulk of the figures for people who haves sadly lost their lives. But if you are retired and over 70, that you believe you are in the peak of fitness and health, if you believe that if you contract the CV you have as good a chance of recovery as a much younger person, then you carry right on ignore the advice.
> 
> So when have those over 70 years of age been told to remain at home? Surely you cannot have missed Boris and his medical advisors making clear on several occasions during their nightly updates on TV that those who are 70 years old and over should remain at home isolated for 12 weeks? If you are 70 years old and over you are typically going to be retired, however some people still may still be working, I accept this. Indeed some younger people may have been lucky enough to be able to retire well before 65 years old, but for the most part those who have reached 70 years old will be retired and classed as vulnerable and even more at risk to CV.
> 
> ...


Not retired or over 70, and still buy printed newspapers.

I'm in the 'high risk" category on three counts. Heart issue, cancer(currently and in the past) and lifelong epilepsy. The third governs treatment for the first two, and everything else. Meaning should a vaccine be found, I'll not be given it. Just like all the others people have had over the years.

The first and third could kill me at any time. SUDEP kills around 600 a year in the UK. Epilepsy affects around 5% of the UK population.

And a sneeze travels over 8 feet, 18" further than the 6'6" "social space" requested at present.


----------



## matticus (27 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> He's now deleted his Strava account to stop th*e sort of personal attack you just made*.


Excuse me?


----------



## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Excuse me?


Stravaw**kers not v flattering maybe?


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## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> Stravaw**kers not v flattering maybe?


That's the name of the Twitter account!


----------



## vickster (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That's the name of the Twitter account!


Right, I don't use twitter, never have


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## lane (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That's the name of the Twitter account!



I didn't realise that either


----------



## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

lane said:


> I didn't realise that either


Here's the tweet referring to Mr Skipper's ride..


View: https://twitter.com/stravawankers/status/1243288413760942081?s=19


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

matticus said:


> Excuse me?


You seemed to post details of his ride here as criticism, complete with tongue-stuck-out smiley. How would you like it if someone posted "Look at @matticus doing lots of work, as shown on the workw**kers twitter. Well done :P" about your work?


----------



## Dogtrousers (27 Mar 2020)

Bit of additional clarity (?) in govt guidelines https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces



gov.uk said:


> exercise is still important for people’s physical and mental wellbeing, so the government has said people can leave their homes for exercise once a day.
> *Please use the following guidance in order to stay safe:*
> 
> stay local and use open spaces near to your home where possible – do not travel unnecessarily


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## Dogtrousers (27 Mar 2020)

Problem is, with every one at home, the green spaces get pretty crowded pretty quickly. This is just with perfectly normal use. I went out for a walk a couple of days ago, at lunchtime. I walked past a park and it was way more full than I'd usually expect. This wasn't "idiots treating it like a holiday". It was people going out for a walk, sometimes with dog, sometimes with kids, sometimes alone.


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## nickyboy (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Here's the tweet referring to Mr Skipper's ride..
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/stravawankers/status/1243288413760942081?s=19



The government is already accessing GPS phone data to determine compliance with aspects of the lockdown to see where it isn't producing the results needed.. Idiots like this will hasten a ban on cycling.


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## mjr (27 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> The government is already accessing GPS phone data to determine compliance with aspects of the lockdown to see where it isn't producing the results needed.. Idiots like this will hasten a ban on cycling.


1. How are government accessing GPS phone data? Unlike what you see on TV cop shows, GPS does not receive phone signals so are they doing that through that dodgy JoinZoe app, through fools who have given their permission to share everything with Google/Apple/... or by some other mechanism? Or do you just mean that they're observing which phones are using which masts?
2. Why is Joe Skipper an idiot for doing his work which he cannot do at home? He claims to have sought a doctor's advice, taken precautions, carried all his provisions and not stopped - much more than many people who are still going out to work at jobs which much less obviously require them to go out to an office.


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## Milzy (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Here's the tweet referring to Mr Skipper's ride..
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/stravawankers/status/1243288413760942081?s=19



He's one of our top triathaleates. Like he's going to just do a local 20 mile been a professional.


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## hoopdriver (27 Mar 2020)

A 200-mile ride is simply taking the mick - yes, sure, he's a pro, but that is an extremely long training ride even for a pro as he must very well know. AS for me, I am a professional photographer and in normal circumstances I bring along my camera to capture images on my rides and even though I know perfectly well that stopping briefly on a quiet country lane at dawn, far from anyone, and snapping a few images is not going to increase risk for me or anyone else, I don't do it because I don't want to be a prat. I try to keep within the spirit of the thing - as frustrating as that might be. By showing off like this, this clown is simply going to ruin things for everybody else.


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## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

Milzy said:


> He's one of our top triathaleates. Like he's going to just do a local 20 mile been a professional.



I posted that to clarify that the Stravawankers reference was a direct quote of the account name, not a personal attack by Matticus, as some seem to have misinterpreted it.

However, Mr Skipper didn’t need to do a ride that long, it wasn’t essential. He might earn his income from cycle races as a pro but he wasn’t in one in this instance so the exemption of ‘going to work’ doesn’t apply.

Simply put, he was taking the piss.


----------



## nickyboy (27 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> 1. How are government accessing GPS phone data? Unlike what you see on TV cop shows, GPS does not receive phone signals so are they doing that through that dodgy JoinZoe app, through fools who have given their permission to share everything with Google/Apple/... or by some other mechanism? Or do you just mean that they're observing which phones are using which masts?
> 2. Why is Joe Skipper an idiot for doing his work which he cannot do at home? He claims to have sought a doctor's advice, taken precautions, carried all his provisions and not stopped - much more than many people who are still going out to work at jobs which much less obviously require them to go out to an office.


The government has already said that it used phone data to determine compliance with the "request" to avoid pubs, restaurants (which was ignored to the extent that they were required to close). Don't split hairs, you know exactly what I mean
He's an idiot in that if a sufficient number of cyclists push the envelope of "one time exercise per day" (as he is obviously aware he is doing from the title of his ride) then there will be restrictions on what cyclists are permitted to do. This may (as in a number of other European countries) be far stricter than we are currently experiencing


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## Drago (27 Mar 2020)

First the government was using GPS data. then phone data. Which is it?


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## gavroche (27 Mar 2020)

I , for one, made the decision not to ride my bike on the road in a previous post, and will not until this plague is over. I hope more cyclists will do the same in support of the NHS. Nowadays, with modern technology, one can still exercise without going out. Stay safe people.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (27 Mar 2020)

nickyboy said:


> The government has already said that it used phone data to determine compliance with the "request" to avoid pubs, restaurants (which was ignored to the extent that they were required to close). Don't split hairs, you know exactly what I mean



True.

My brother is with BT and a recent email to rally staff confirms this, it says:
“We’re providing anonymised, aggregated mobile and wi-fi data to support Government’s efforts to determine the efficacy of its communications and countermeasures. “

It won’t be the only network provider doing this.


----------



## Sunny Portrush (27 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Here's the tweet referring to Mr Skipper's ride..
> 
> 
> View: https://twitter.com/stravawankers/status/1243288413760942081?s=19




Only took me a tenth of his distance to beat his elevation - I`m moving!


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## matticus (28 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I posted that to clarify that the Stravawankers reference was a direct quote of the account name, not a personal attack by Matticus, as some seem to have misinterpreted it.
> 
> However, Mr Skipper didn’t need to do a ride that long, it wasn’t essential. He might earn his income from cycle races as a pro but he wasn’t in one in this instance so the exemption of ‘going to work’ doesn’t apply.
> 
> Simply put, he was taking the piss.


Thanks. And yes I was just passing on news (forgive me for referencing the obscure new website known as "Twitter", Your Honour (: )


----------



## lane (28 Mar 2020)

Police acknowledge confusion over lockdown


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/27/police-acknowledge-confusion-over-uk-lockdown-rules


----------



## Alberto Balsam (28 Mar 2020)

Slightly off topic, but here's an interesting article about CV from the Spectator.


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## tom73 (28 Mar 2020)

Seen a few bikes on cars today. Not quite in the spirt of the law. looks like some are still driving out for a ride


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## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

tom73 said:


> Seen a few bikes on cars today. Not quite in the spirt of the law. looks like some are still driving out for a ride


Where can one find details of this spirit? How does one become an expert on the spirit? Observing it or imbibing it?


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## C R (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Where can one find details of this spirit? How does one become an expert on the spirit? Observing it or imbibing it?


It was clarified yesterday that the exercise was meant to start and finish at home, as driving elsewhere to exercise is not an essential journey.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2020)

tom73 said:


> Seen a few bikes on cars today. Not quite in the spirt of the law. looks like some are still driving out for a ride



and people with dogs . Still driving for a dog walk.


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## Landsurfer (28 Mar 2020)

Isn't the whole thing about exercise guidance ... not law ?
The Police can uphold the Law ... but not Guidance ...

Get in your car, alone, drive ... ride ... drive home alone .... how can you possibly add to the issue ?
The bullies in society always make themselves known when things get tough ... they bully .. they don't help ...


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## Venod (28 Mar 2020)

In ASDA today was the remaining Chuckle Brother, he was standing very close to someone, so I shouted over, two metre you.


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## vickster (28 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> and people with dogs . Still driving for a dog walk.


My brother has to drive his dog to the park as she's very arthritic but still young and enthusiastic enough to want to get out in green space and not just hobble around the local pavements.

Can't see a genuine reason for driving somewhere to cycle though in the current circumstances especially given how quiet the roads are


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## Landsurfer (28 Mar 2020)

vickster said:


> My brother has to drive his dog to the park as she's very arthritic but still young and enthusiastic enough to want to get out in green space and not just hobble around the local pavements.
> 
> Can't see a genuine reason for driving somewhere to cycle though in the current circumstances especially given how quiet the roads are


I live on top of a substantial hill .... i have a heart condition and an implanted device .... i can ride for miles .. but climbing hills is not good for me .. So i drive to the bottom of the hill, cycle, then drive back up the hill .........."My Ride Today .." posts are a bit of a give away ....
Exercise is essential for my health, swimming pools are closed, i have to avoid impact exercise ... so cycling it is ...
Swimming in pools sucks, I only swim in the sea .... 
Cycling is my 44 year passion, and my 56 year source of fun .....


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## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> I live on top of a substantial hill .... i have a heart condition and an implanted device .... i can ride for miles .. but climbing hills is not good for me .. So i drive to the bottom of the hill, cycle, then drive back up the hill ..........
> Exercise is essential for my health, swimming pools are closed, i have to avoid impact exercise ... so cycling it is ...



You have made a case for ignoring the 'exercise must begin at home' restriction, but not a valid one.

Walking is not an impact exercise.

You can get all the essential exercise you need by walking from home, so you have no essential need to cycle.

I have limited sympathy with the argument that only driving half a mile up and down a hill is not a massive breach of the restrictions.

It is still a breach, and could have a negative impact in that people may see you doing it, which undermines the compliance of others.

Mention of seeing bikes on a car roof has been made in this thread.

You do have the option of getting all the essential exercise you need and fully complying with the restrictions.

That is the option you should take.


----------



## matticus (28 Mar 2020)

mjr said:


> Where can one find details of this spirit?


If you have to ask ...


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

C R said:


> It was clarified yesterday that the exercise was meant to start and finish at home, as driving elsewhere to exercise is not an essential journey.


That's not quite correct. What they said was that you should "stay local and use open spaces near your home. Do not travel unnecessarily "
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces

That's not quite the same as saying exercise must start & finish at home.


----------



## Dogtrousers (28 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> You have made a case for ignoring the 'exercise must begin at home' restriction, but not a valid one.


There is no such restriction. Just that you should "stay local" and "not travel unnecessarily " not quite the same thing.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces


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## Landsurfer (28 Mar 2020)

Here in England we have a history of "Gold Plating" guidance to turn it into urban myth law ..
Those that shout loudest for restriction .... WITHOUT ANY BENEFIT TO SOCIETY .. seem to appear in every crisis.
Humberside Police ... seem to want neighbours to tell tell tales on each other ... 
This approach has been compared with the East German STASI in both the Telegraph and the Grauniad today ...

We are better than this ... we will keep each other safe ... we will not give in to bullies, and we will support the Police in their task of upholding the Law .... not the guidance or the suggestion .. the Law ..
Because we all know how to keep each other safe .......
Social Distancing ... If i am cycling alone, along a country lane and 2 police officers stop me to inquire why i am out of my house ... who has broken the Social Distancing Guidance ... me or the Police officers ...  ?


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## Pale Rider (28 Mar 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> There is no such restriction. Just that you should "stay local" and "not travel unnecessarily " not quite the same thing.
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces



A journey to exercise is not an essential journey if you do not have to make it to get the exercise.

Who can truly say they cannot exercise without first making a journey?

It does appear there may be an allowance to drive to a park or green space, but I'm bound to say if that space is near enough to observe the 'stay local' restriction, it's near enough to walk to.


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## mjr (28 Mar 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> [...], but I'm bound to say if that space is near enough to observe the 'stay local' restriction, it's near enough to walk to.


Who has bound you over thus?


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## gavgav (29 Mar 2020)

I see Gove has done an interview, this morning, where he’s said a bike ride between 30 mins and 1 hour “would have thought” be considered acceptable......I fully expect something to be enforced very soon.

Coronavirus: Strict measures could last 'significant period' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52082781


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## Drago (29 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> I , for one, made the decision not to ride my bike on the road in a previous post, and will not until this plague is over. I hope more cyclists will do the same in support of the NHS. Nowadays, with modern technology, one can still exercise without going out. Stay safe people.


How does that help the NHS? Mile for mile you're more likely to die while walking.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (29 Mar 2020)

gavgav said:


> I see Gove has done an interview, this morning, where he’s said a bike ride between 30 mins and 1 hour “would have thought” be considered acceptable......I fully expect something to be enforced very soon.



Enforced how exactly? No one knows how long you’ve been out except yourself. Same with running and walking.


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Enforced how exactly? No one knows how long you’ve been out except yourself. Same with running and walking.


As long as you don't post publicly on Strava like the triathlete upthread


----------



## Mo1959 (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> How does that help the NHS? Mile for mile you're more likely to die while walking.


...or end up with depression if you rely on fresh air and exercise to keep you sane! Plus you have no more contact being out 2 hours than half an hour


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## gavgav (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Enforced how exactly? No one knows how long you’ve been out except yourself. Same with running and walking.


You’d be surprised who knows where you’ve been......if you don’t take a mobile phone with you then maybe not


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## gavgav (29 Mar 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> ...or end up with depression if you rely on fresh air and exercise to keep you sane! Plus you have no more contact being out 2 hours than half an hour


I’d say I have less contact, being out in the sticks, on my bike, than I do in the Small back garden at home, where my neighbours are closer!


----------



## glasgowcyclist (29 Mar 2020)

Support the NHS...
*




*


----------



## matticus (29 Mar 2020)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Support the NHS...
> *
> View attachment 511171
> *


 sorry I'm off out in a minute.


----------



## gavroche (29 Mar 2020)

Drago said:


> How does that help the NHS? Mile for mile you're more likely to die while walking.


Because if I was to have a fall and hurt myself enough to go to hospital, I would then use NHS staff and facilities. That is the reason why cycling is prohibited in France at the moment and it makes sense to me even if the chances of that happening are very very small.


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

gavroche said:


> Because if I was to have a fall and hurt myself enough to go to hospital, I would then use NHS staff and facilities. That is the reason why cycling is prohibited in France at the moment and it makes sense to me even if the chances of that happening are very very small.


You could do that walking too however


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## alicat (29 Mar 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Enforced how exactly? No one knows how long you’ve been out except yourself. Same with running and walking.



If you're further away from home than you could cycle in half an hour, that would be proof.


----------



## hoopdriver (29 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> If you're further away from home than you could cycle in half an hour, that would be proof.


You mean if you’re further away from home than an overweight under exercised police officer imagines someone could cycle in half an hour...


----------



## vickster (29 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> You mean if you’re further away from home than an overweight police officer imagines someone could cycle in half an hour...


10 mile limit would be applicable to 90% of cyclists I should think


----------



## alicat (29 Mar 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> You mean if you’re further away from home than an overweight under exercised police officer imagines someone could cycle in half an hour...



Yeh, I probably did mean something like that!


----------



## alicat (29 Mar 2020)

Fortunately for me at least, that's more or less the speed that I go at.....


----------



## mjr (29 Mar 2020)

alicat said:


> If you're further away from home than you could cycle in half an hour, that would be proof.


It was a tailwind when I set out, officer...

But you're all still encouraging people to get their long rides in now!


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Mar 2020)

If i sit alone under the stairs for 3 hours .... i would feel sad.
If i sit alone on my bike for 3 hours .... i would be uplifted ...
Stress relieving .....
Neither puts anyone at risk ...... but one helps ....
Take care, stay safe.


----------



## Landsurfer (29 Mar 2020)

Work in the morning .... i'm taking the RE 400 ...
Less emissions, better fuel consumption than the car..... stress relieving ...
Take care, stay safe.


----------



## kingrollo (30 Mar 2020)

Landsurfer said:


> If i sit alone under the stairs for 3 hours .... i would feel sad.
> If i sit alone on my bike for 3 hours .... i would be uplifted ...
> Stress relieving .....
> Neither puts anyone at risk ...... but one helps ....
> Take care, stay safe.


Funny you should say that because my home office is under the stairs.

Unfortunately I am on one of the high risk groups - GP couldn't understand why I hadn't been picked up for a letter. I mentioned about going cycling she said as per the guidelines no - but the shielding guidelines aren't law. (Yet) - Staying in the house for the last couple of weeks is making me feel pretty low. Asthma uk guidelines say if your conditions are generally mild then cycling is OK.


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## mjr (17 Apr 2020)

ianrauk said:


> The powers that be have banned cycling in Richmond Park


I missed it at the time, but at least ten groups (not including Cycling UK) asked Royal Parks to lift the ban: https://lcc.org.uk/articles/richmond-park-closure-our-groups-respond

It's not clear to me if they've had a reply.


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## mjr (20 Apr 2020)

"Survey reveals how lockdown is transforming activity habits"
https://www.activenorfolk.org/news/...-how-lockdown-is-transforming-activity-habits
"A Sport England survey has shown how the coronavirus crisis is having a radical impact on people's exercise habits [...] 59% of adults taking their daily outdoor exercise in the form of a stroll, while 19% went jogging and 9% went for a cycle."

Only 9%. IIRC that's a bit more than a threefold increase, but it's still a bit of a low number, don't you think? Missed opportunity by Cycling UK and similar advocacy organisations?


----------



## mjr (12 May 2020)

https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ansport-guidance-for-passengers-and-operators


Grant Shapps said:


> we are also asking those who need to make journeys to their place of work or other essential trips to walk or cycle wherever possible. [...]
> 
> If people cannot walk or cycle but have access to a car, we urge them to use this before considering public transport, avoiding, where possible busy times of day.



Minister Shapps seems to be setting a rather different priority order to the PM's "car... or walk or cycle" speeches.

I've seen naff all change on the ground yet. Has anyone? In other countries, the concrete blocks and metal posts were closing off lanes from cars within days.


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## hoopdriver (12 May 2020)

From my observation of the traffic this morning I would say that the PM's unfocussed remarks the other night effectively ended the lockdown. The roads were quite busy this morning.


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## mjr (12 May 2020)

hoopdriver said:


> From my observation of the traffic this morning I would say that the PM's unfocussed remarks the other night effectively ended the lockdown. The roads were quite busy this morning.


The roads here were busy yesterday morning, then it didn't tail off (people returning home after their employers said they could not open despite Boris?) until the afternoon, but this morning seemed only slightly busier than last week. I guess the traffic data will tell.

But really I wondered if anyone had seen any pop-up bike lanes other than the ones in London and Brighton?


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## matticus (12 May 2020)

mjr said:


> https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ansport-guidance-for-passengers-and-operators
> 
> 
> Minister Shapps seems to be setting a rather different priority order to the PM's "car... or walk or cycle" speeches.
> ...


Short answer: no. And as you know, many countries have had this stuff for weeks. (if not months!) I think Calgary was the first I read about?

However, I saw this just now and_ Thought Of You_:
https://bemk.co.uk/news/milton-keyn...lanes-to-open-as-part-of-250m-government-plan
there are green shoots in Milton Keynes who do at least seem commited to doing stuff. apparently.

Stay tuned for more updates  hopefully ...


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## mjr (12 May 2020)

matticus said:


> However, I saw this just now and_ Thought Of You_:
> https://bemk.co.uk/news/milton-keyn...lanes-to-open-as-part-of-250m-government-plan
> there are green shoots in Milton Keynes who do at least seem commited to doing stuff. apparently.
> 
> Stay tuned for more updates  hopefully ...


Outside the centre, what MK needs most is resurfacing, but this fund probably can't be used for that, so fixing the centre is a good move, as would fixing Stratford, Newport and Bletchley next.


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## mjr (27 May 2020)

British Cycling suspensions extended to 1 September (national/international), 1 August (regionals/sportives), 4 July (clubs/groups), to be reviewed fortnightly with just two weeks' notice if things get suspended again, making organisers' lives difficult: I wouldn't be surprised if some refuse to take the risk of restarting under those terms. https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/a...--Suspension-of-sanctioned-cycling-activity-0

Still no updates from Cycling UK to https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/coro...dvice-following-tough-new-government-measures


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## matticus (27 May 2020)

"STILL no updates" you say?? This is appalling!


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## mjr (27 May 2020)

matticus said:


> "STILL no updates" you say?? This is appalling!


Last updated 23 March. Everything suspended, no ETA. My local non affiliated group was following CUK advice but I think people may want to restart on 4 July if the racing clubs do, which means publishing schedules in a couple of weeks.


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## matticus (28 May 2020)

How many updates on non-competitive riding have BC ( the saviours of UK cycling, and just much better all-round than CyclingUK) given since 23 March?

(It's not like anything significant changed until a week ago anyways ... )


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## rivers (28 May 2020)

matticus said:


> How many updates on non-competitive riding have BC ( the saviours of UK cycling, and just much better all-round than CyclingUK) given since 23 March?
> 
> (It's not like anything significant changed until a week ago anyways ... )



Several. Basically anytime there's an update from the government. Latest update was yesterday.


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## matticus (28 May 2020)

So 1 update. The one mjr posted. Hardly a crisis in CyclingUK that they "still" haven't rushed to update their situation!

Meanwhile, there is this just out:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/back-your-bike

_Back on your bike offer
If you’ve recently discovered the joys of cycling or are starting to ride to work, we’ve got everything you need to help you on your journey.

The Back on your bike bundle is only £15 for 6 months and includes everything you need to help you feel more confident on your recreational ride or commute.

What is included
Free £10m third-party liability insurance and legal assistance
*One-month free bike insurance *and personal accident insurance (and get 15% discount on a further year)
...
_
My bold: i think that's a cool idea for new commuters/utilty cyclists, one less thing to worry about


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## matticus (28 May 2020)

Bit off-topic, but I think folks should read this (from the weekend):
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/tie-...ling-uk-submits-formal-complaint-sunday-times


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## mjr (28 May 2020)

matticus said:


> So 1 update. The one mjr posted. Hardly a crisis in CyclingUK that they "still" haven't rushed to update their situation!


BC (who I dislike for many other reasons) have published a plan, which lets their volunteers start work on events again. CUK have no plan and their volunteers are having to make it up for themselves - I've already seen one CUK affiliate say they'll follow the BC schedule and I doubt others will be far behind.



matticus said:


> Meanwhile, there is this just out:
> https://www.cyclinguk.org/back-your-bike
> [...]
> *One-month free bike insurance *and personal accident insurance (and get 15% discount on a further year)
> ...


One less thing to worry about - for one month. Then they'll be worried about insurances. That's a great way to keep new riders cycling, that: say nothing about the positives of cycling, make them think about what might go wrong and then presumably try to get people to buy renewals in the run up to Christmas(!)


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## Pat "5mph" (28 May 2020)

matticus said:


> Bit off-topic, but I think folks should read this (from the weekend):
> https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/tie-...ling-uk-submits-formal-complaint-sunday-times


Mod Note:
already discussed here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/more-wire-w-ers.260098/#post-6008127


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## mjr (29 May 2020)

Cycling UK update posted today: https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/how-maintain-morale-your-cycling-group-during-lockdown

Still no target date to restart events, so nothing volunteers can plan around. A couple of local groups are now discussing restarting on their own timetables. One seems to be planning to follow BC instead - I don't know if they will change their affiliation in due course. CUK seem MIA.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Jun 2020)

They just tweeted this

View: https://twitter.com/WeAreCyclingUK/status/1267488281631117316


I know @mjr doesn't read embedded tweets. It says
_Who can I go cycling with? As long as a 2 metre distance is maintained, most of us can now go riding with a limited number of people who aren't part of our household. Please check our advice for cyclists to find out exactly how the changes apply to you: http://bit.ly/3a1dQLe _

followed by graphic of Who can I cycle with/How far can I cycle/ How often/ Can I drive there broken down by Eng/Scot/NI/Wales

Link is to https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle


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## mjr (1 Jun 2020)

That's interesting because I think it's the first thing I've seen that says groups of six can ride together, not merely meet up outdoors.

I do feel that CUK are being overtaken by events, just like the government. I've seen one CUK affiliate announce a ride tomorrow morning and hasn't explicitly limited it to six riders. I think another local group is going to restart too, possibly influenced by the first - either taking courage from it or not wanting to lose riders to it, perhaps?

(since the last upgrade to CC, I can read most tweets as they get a "View" link under them)


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## Ajax Bay (1 Jun 2020)

Scotland authorities have said that 'local' means within 5 miles.


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## mjr (1 Jun 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> Scotland authorities have said that 'local' means within 5 miles.


Does that only mean for travel to sport, rather than the whole ride? It would be bizarre to apply it now to the whole ride because it would be effectively locking cycling down harder during opening-up.


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## Ajax Bay (1 Jun 2020)

mjr said:


> it's the first thing I've seen that says groups of six can ride together, not merely meet up outdoors.


Well, this isn't authoritative, it's just CTC's take on the home nations' clear revised guidance.
It's also mine. How can riding in a group of 6 (SD) not be within the 'meeting (SD) 6 others' guidance (applicable to England)? Do we need CTC to interpret that?

Our informal group - well 6 of us - are going to meet at an RV on Wednesday pm, ride for an hour to one rider's garden and have a couple of drinks (centrally procured beverages - pre-ordered already). 2+m SD at all times. Someone's else's garden next week. Expecting to transfer to pubs with (outside) beer gardens next month.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...rus-runners-cyclists-airborne-infectious-dose?
Will make a welcome change to the Zoom Bar we've been patronising every Wednesday.


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