# Step 1: Build hill Step 2: Profit



## blazed (21 Sep 2017)

I was thinking of ways to make money and had the idea of building an artificial hill. Similar to that of a dry ski slope. Perhaps on some farmers land in Hertfordshire (key cycling county).

The hill would have to be reasonably long and very steep, up to 40%. People would flock to it, some to say that have ridden that sort of gradient and others would regularly use for training. You could charge one off fees and monthly memberships.

Of course the outlay would be high to build and tarmac but once up it would be an absolute gold mine. Thoughts?


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

We have some like that round here, called roads. With more than a few that start at 40%(Steep!)


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## Drago (21 Sep 2017)

How high would your hill be? What volume of material would you require?


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## srw (21 Sep 2017)

Just tarmac over a downhill run or two. Only a mile or two outside Hertfordshire.


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## MikeG (21 Sep 2017)

You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, and the hundreds of hours of digger-time (at £220/ day if you're lucky), plus of course the cost of the land, the agents fees for the Planning Permission, and so on, could make a mess of your profit pretty quickly if you hadn't taken it all into account. Which you have, of course.


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## slowmotion (21 Sep 2017)

For a small appearance fee, I would be prepared to meet the press and tell them that is absolutely no chance of me riding up it.

The suckers would pour in!


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

MikeG said:


> You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, and the hundreds of hours of digger-time (at £220/ day if you're lucky), plus of course the cost of the land, the agents fees for the Planning Permission, and so on, could make a mess of your profit pretty quickly if you hadn't taken it all into account. Which you have, of course.



You'd handle all the paperwork. For a fee of course.


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## slowmotion (21 Sep 2017)

You'll need to add some animatronic locals screaming abuse and scattering tacks....


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## blazed (21 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> We have some like that round here, called roads. With more than a few that start at 40%(Steep!)



I didn't think there were any steeper roads than hardknott pass (35%) in the UK. Regardless this wouldn't be some little crusty lane that hits high gradient for 10 metres, it would be an epic mound.




MikeG said:


> You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, and the hundreds of hours of digger-time (at £220/ day if you're lucky), plus of course the cost of the land, the agents fees for the Planning Permission, and so on, could make a mess of your profit pretty quickly if you hadn't taken it all into account. Which you have, of course.



When buying in such bulk it would be far cheaper than that for crushed concrete. Likewise you would not hire a digger for £220/day with the time length it would be cheaper to buy diggers outright and sell them after the project. I know what i am doing dont doubt me.


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## mark st1 (21 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> How high would your hill be? What volume of material would you require?



Bull shoot by the tonne perhaps ?


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## Drago (21 Sep 2017)

You could dig your own hole and use the material for your hill. You could combine the hole with the hill to make an uber deep drop.


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## Tim Hall (21 Sep 2017)

Halve (or even eliminate entirely) the material costs by digging a huge hole. Pile the excavated material next to the hole, then ride from the bottom of the hole to to top of the pile. No need for imported material. You can thank me later.

Edit: Damn, beaten to it by Drago.


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## dan_bo (21 Sep 2017)

epic mound.

First class sir.


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## MikeG (21 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> ........When buying in such bulk it would be far cheaper than that for crushed concrete. Likewise you would not hire a digger for £220/day with the time length it would be cheaper to buy diggers outright and sell them after the project. I know what i am doing dont doubt me.



The digger price included the driver.


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> I didn't think there were any steeper roads than hardknott pass (35%) in the UK. Regardless this wouldn't be some little crusty lane that hits high gradient for 10 metres, it would be an epic mound.


What's a 33° slope, percentage wise?


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## roadrash (21 Sep 2017)




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## MikeG (21 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> What's a 33° slope, percentage wise?



I'm guessing it's 36.67%

Approximately.


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4966274, member: 21629"]1. Get a job.
2. Stop smoking that old hay.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't smoke, so he's said before.


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## Drago (21 Sep 2017)

What sort of height for the summit are you planning?


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## blazed (21 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> What's a 33° slope, percentage wise?


It doesn't matter. Even if there is some old country lane that is 50%. This is about something huge that can accomodate thousands of customers a day. Look at ski resorts, you ski down then get pulled back up. A simple concept but very profitable.

One difference with a ski slope is it would not be safe to have people cycling back down after reaching the summit. An elevator which goes down the core of the mound linking to an exit tunnel would be needed.


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> What sort of height for the summit are you planning?


29,029 feet.


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## blazed (21 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> What sort of height for the summit are you planning?


To accomodate a reasonable length at 40% it's going to need to be around 400ft.


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## huwsparky (21 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> 29,029 feet.


Probably be easier to bring Everest over...


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## Bollo (21 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> To accomodate a reasonable length


Paging @Fnaar, STAT!!!!!


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## Bollo (21 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4966274, member: 21629"]1. Get a job.
2. Stop smoking that old hay.[/QUOTE]
 
Advice on getting tea off a MacBook most welcome.


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## Andrew_P (21 Sep 2017)

MikeG said:


> You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, and the hundreds of hours of digger-time (at £220/ day if you're lucky), plus of course the cost of the land, the agents fees for the Planning Permission, and so on, could make a mess of your profit pretty quickly if you hadn't taken it all into account. Which you have, of course.


A: I think you have given this far too much thought
B: You have not read many posts from Messer Blazed.

:-)


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## Tin Pot (21 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> It doesn't matter. Even if there is some old country lane that is 50%. This is about something huge that can accomodate thousands of customers a day. Look at ski resorts, you ski down then get pulled back up. A simple concept but very profitable.
> 
> One difference with a ski slope is it would not be safe to have people cycling back down after reaching the summit. An elevator which goes down the core of the mound linking to an exit tunnel would be needed.



Ski slopes make fark all profit.

However, a dry slope near me closed last year so I've just phoned them up and bought it so i can ride up and down without fear of having to interact with the hoi polloi.


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## Lozz360 (21 Sep 2017)

MikeG said:


> You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, and the hundreds of hours of digger-time (at £220/ day if you're lucky), plus of course the cost of the land, the agents fees for the Planning Permission, and so on, could make a mess of your profit pretty quickly if you hadn't taken it all into account. Which you have, of course.


Proper ray of sunshine you are...


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## mjr (21 Sep 2017)

MikeG said:


> You know how expensive stuff is, don't you? Good, 'coz £20 to £30 per tonne delivered, multiplied by the tens of thousands of tons you'd need, [...]


No no no, you charge people for taking their stuff to turn into your very own VAMberg... https://rouleur.cc/editorial/vamberg-rubbish-climb/


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

Lozz360 said:


> Proper ray of sunshine you are...


Pointing out the obvious.


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## Profpointy (21 Sep 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Halve (or even eliminate entirely) the material costs by digging a huge hole. Pile the excavated material next to the hole, then ride from the bottom of the hole to to top of the pile. No need for imported material. You can thank me later.
> 
> Edit: Damn, beaten to it by Drago.



You can do better than that. Dig the hole twice as deep, sell all the mud for the £30 a ton Mike above quoted and you can fund the entire project.


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## slowmotion (21 Sep 2017)

I'm thinking that a worked-out mine might be better. With a bit of imagination, you could have both up and down tracks and double your profit.


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

slowmotion said:


> I'm thinking that a worked-out mine might be better. With a bit of imagination, you could have both up and down tracks and double your profit.
> View attachment 374753


You could build a track straight up the side. None of gentle incline stuff.


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## Tim Hall (21 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4966401, member: 9609"]so this hill is going to be 400 foot high with a 40% slope. So I'm thinking some sort of cone shape hill ? 
so the base will be 2000' diameter ?
lets give the earth 8 stone per cubic foot
(not really sure how to calc the volume of a cone)(500^2*3.142*400)?
but I reckon you will need 15.7 million tonne
that would be 100 bulk tippers a day delivering for 15 years.[/QUOTE]
Cone volume is pi r^2h/3
So volume is 500^2*3.142*400/3, which is 1/3 of your answer. Which means truck movements for only 5 years instead. 
(But what's this tonne business? Surely if you're working stuff out in cubic feet and stone, your answer should be in ton(s))


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## slowmotion (21 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> You could build a track straight up the side. None of gentle incline stuff.


Yep, the gradients on my scheme were chosen to suit my listless and pathetic athletic abilities.


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## classic33 (21 Sep 2017)

slowmotion said:


> Yep, the gradients on my scheme were chosen to suit my listless and pathetic athletic abilities.


This is @blazed we're talking about though.


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## slowmotion (22 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> This is @blazed we're talking about though.


My management consultancy is provided without regard to sporting prowess. The fee remains the same.


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## Colin_P (22 Sep 2017)

Give your local council a ring and see if you can hire one of these;


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## blazed (22 Sep 2017)

My plan B was to use a an out use quarry. Such as the abondoned slate quarry in Llanberis near Mt Snowdon. Snowdonia is a peak cycling and tourist area and cheaper than Hertfordshire. All it needs is some grading and tarmac.


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## Beebo (22 Sep 2017)

If you built it they will come. 

Or not. Probably.


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## ianrauk (22 Sep 2017)

The cone of shame


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## Oldfentiger (22 Sep 2017)

Giant hamster wheel is the answer.
If you pedal fast enough you could go vertical. None of this pansy 40% stuff.
Install a row of them, to better serve the obvious clamour for their use.


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## alicat (22 Sep 2017)

Dry ski slopes work because it is a long way to get to any actual snow. 

You can have that one for free.


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## Shut Up Legs (22 Sep 2017)

Just ring Trump, and offer to build the hill on top of Kim Jong-un, if he'll kindly provide the body, and the funds. The hill will be built in no time.


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## Crackle (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> My plan B was to use a an out use quarry. Such as the abondoned slate quarry in Llanberis near Mt Snowdon. Snowdonia is a peak cycling and tourist area and cheaper than Hertfordshire. All it needs is some grading and tarmac.
> View attachment 374772


I've actually ridden down that on a mtn bike.


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## gavroche (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> To accomodate a reasonable length at 40% it's going to need to be around 400ft.


What is 400ft in proper money?


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## TheDoctor (22 Sep 2017)

Something like this? Hung off the side of a multi-storey car park.
Getting round that loop could be tricky, but there is precedent.


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## TheDoctor (22 Sep 2017)




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## Tim Hall (22 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> What is 400ft in proper money?


A bit over 6 chains.


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## Milkfloat (22 Sep 2017)

Far be it for me to oversimplify things but ......


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## KneesUp (22 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> What is 400ft in proper money?


1800 metres pre-brexit. Now 1200 hands.


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I have wondered similar. I sometimes look at "iconic" alpine climbs on telly and think "pah, that's not very steep". Missing the point that it goes on ... and on.
> 
> *(Well, I wonder in metres, as elevations in feet mean absolutely nothing to me, but each to their own)*


Think in terms of a male size ten!


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## Dec66 (22 Sep 2017)

slowmotion said:


> I'm thinking that a worked-out mine might be better. With a bit of imagination, you could have both up and down tracks and double your profit.
> View attachment 374753


How about the crater from a large asteroid impact?


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## Dec66 (22 Sep 2017)

Oh, @blazed ... How I've missed you. 

I think you're missing a trick. Could you not just attach scoops to the back wheel of your turbo trainer, set it at a suitable incline in a farmer's field in Hertfordshire, and use the tremendous power you generate to excavate the incline yourself? Plus, you could compress all the earth deposited next to the hole and make the climb twice as long?

I'll join you to carve out a "nursery slope".


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> I wear size 12s


Use someone elses feet then.


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## JoshM (22 Sep 2017)

I'd totally pay to cycle repeatedly up the same "hill" for an hour...

Don't most of us cycle to get out and about? I, for one, wouldn't want to spend an hour cycling but going no where.


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## Markymark (22 Sep 2017)

slowmotion said:


> I'm thinking that a worked-out mine might be better. With a bit of imagination, you could have both up and down tracks and double your profit.
> View attachment 374753


I got a job measuring the depths of pits. It was not a career I was planning on I just fell into it.


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## subaqua (22 Sep 2017)

Markymark said:


> I got a job measuring the depths of pits. It was not a career I was planning on I just fell into it.
> 
> View attachment 374821




London is calling











For you to leave


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## Dec66 (22 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4967020, member: 9609"]or may be a stray warhead from king yong ding dong[/QUOTE]
I think the asteroid impact is more likely. And probably more damaging.


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## Mugshot (22 Sep 2017)

Markymark said:


> I got a job measuring the depths of pits. It was not a career I was planning on I just fell into it.
> 
> View attachment 374821


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## MacB (22 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> I've actually ridden down that on a mtn bike.



Yeah whoopee doo, now if you had said you'd ridden up it then you would have got a 'like' - whether for the achievement, or the bald faced lie, haven't decided yet


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## MacB (22 Sep 2017)

User said:


> I can't help but feel that the OP might be hurt by the lack of gravitas which has now become associated with this thread.



Hey, it may not be eating dog food but it's not bad


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## growingvegetables (22 Sep 2017)

User said:


> I can't help but feel that the OP might be hurt by the lack of gravitas which has now become associated with this thread.


Agreed. And I'm happy to find out for him contacts. 

They will, I suspect, fall over themselves, in their eagerness for him to remove unsightly pit-bings from around West and South Yorkshire. Play his cards right, he might even get PAID to remove them.


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## MacB (22 Sep 2017)

Weirdly I actually find this whole concept attractive, a sort of Cycling Folly......if you build something extravagant, and solid, enough future versions of humanity may puzzle over it like we do over Stonehenge


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## Crackle (22 Sep 2017)

MacB said:


> Yeah whoopee doo, now if you had said you'd ridden up it then you would have got a 'like' - whether for the achievement, or the bald faced lie, haven't decided yet


What bike would you have ridden up it on though. The custom Burls 29er with hub gears and all round go everywhere geometry (or did you sell that, I can't remember), The customised Karate Monkey or would you have one made specially for it. If it helps, it's all loose sharp slate, top to bottom, so definitely needing tubeless tyres I'd say, not as steep as it looks either but traction definitely an issue?


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## Markymark (22 Sep 2017)

User said:


> I can't help but feel that the OP might be hurt by the lack of gravitas which has now become associated with this thread.


My posting gives any thread gravitas and credence. Being quoted by me is like a cuddle from a loved one.


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## Alan O (22 Sep 2017)

MacB said:


> Weirdly I actually find this whole concept attractive, a sort of Cycling Folly......if you build something extravagant, and solid, enough future versions of humanity may puzzle over it like we do over Stonehenge


H: I say, Poirot, I think you've got it - Stonehenge was a fitness gym!
P: Indeed, Hastings, but don't tell Inspector Japp just yet.


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## Welsh wheels (22 Sep 2017)

40%? Not sure I'd pay for a certain slow-speed fall  If people want really steep hills, they can always come to Wales.


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

*Step 3:*
Wait whilst someone gets hurt before putting a disclaimer up.


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## Drago (22 Sep 2017)

Markymark said:


> My posting gives any thread gravitas and credence. Being quoted by me is like a cuddle from a loved one.



I too showed genuine interest and support. With Marky and Drago behind him, far and away the two most popular Cyclechat contributors, the OP can march forward with his head held high, safe in the knowledge the project will be a huge moneyspinner! The masses will go where Marky and Drago lead.*





































*The above is a dramatisation for morale purposes and may not actually happen.


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## MacB (22 Sep 2017)

Drago said:


> I too showed genuine interest and support. With Marky and Drago behind him, far and away the two most popular Cyclechat contributors, the OP can march forward with his head held high, safe in the knowledge the project will be a huge moneyspinner! The masses will go where Marky and Drago lead.*
> *The above is a dramatisation for morale purposes and may not actually happen.



Well Marky's funny, what's your bit in the dynamic duo again?


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## MacB (22 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> What bike would you have ridden up it on though. The custom Burls 29er with hub gears and all round go everywhere geometry (or did you sell that, I can't remember), The customised Karate Monkey or would you have one made specially for it. If it helps, it's all loose sharp slate, top to bottom, so definitely needing tubeless tyres I'd say, not as steep as it looks either but traction definitely an issue?



Wow, just WOW, little bit of a jokey jibe and you come back with a dagger to the heart...you were meant to punish @Bollo not take lessons from him


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## HLaB (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> I was thinking of ways to make money and had the idea of building an artificial hill. Similar to that of a dry ski slope. Perhaps on some farmers land in Hertfordshire (key cycling county).
> 
> The hill would have to be reasonably long and very steep, up to 40%. People would flock to it, some to say that have ridden that sort of gradient and others would regularly use for training. You could charge one off fees and monthly memberships.
> 
> Of course the outlay would be high to build and tarmac but once up it would be an absolute gold mine. Thoughts?


Thanks I needed a good Laugh


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

HLaB said:


> Thanks I needed a good Laugh


You'll be going if he builds it then?


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## blazed (22 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> You'll be going if he builds it then?


As would untold amounts of others. Either everyone here completely lacks enterprising thinking, or are just having a laugh whilst acknowledging to themselves the idea is good. But serious business, like serious cycling, requires serious people. And that is what has always been my advantage in life.

Apart from riders paying one off fees and monthly memberships, could also charge local sportive organisers to incorporate it into their routes. Could host our own competitions, who can set the quickest time, everesting attempts etc. Pro cycling teams could be charged to allow their riders to train on it. Perfect prep for La Vueltas steep gradients.


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## Drago (22 Sep 2017)

I'll go if you build it.


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

There's a road that goes up almost to the phone mast at the top. From the left of the building at the bottom.
Straight up. 60°+ in parts.


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## Cronorider (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> My plan B was to use a an out use quarry. Such as the abondoned slate quarry in Llanberis near Mt Snowdon. Snowdonia is a peak cycling and tourist area and cheaper than Hertfordshire. All it needs is some grading and tarmac.
> View attachment 374772



I'm not sure why you would want to grade and tarmac it - surely the thrill of being able to ride both up and down on a mountain bike as is would be an amazing catalyst for ticket sales? Perhaps you could get Danny MacAskill to come out for a bit of a promo


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## JoshM (22 Sep 2017)

Cronorider said:


> I'm not sure why you would want to grade and tarmac it - surely the thrill of being able to ride both up and down on a mountain bike as is would be an amazing catalyst for ticket sales? Perhaps you could get Danny MacAskill to come out for a bit of a promo



Perhaps he should only grade and tarmac half of it. That way he could capitalise on the roadies on one half, and the mountain bikers on the other half.


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## Crackle (22 Sep 2017)

Yeah, I'm not sure some of you are getting the scale of the tarmac job here. I've drawn a little red circle around the bit in the picture


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## Alan O (22 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> I've drawn a little red circle around the bit in the picture


If that's your idea of a circle, you really shouldn't consider designing wheels!

*modified quickly to try to sound even funnier, but the first version got a laugh


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## Crackle (22 Sep 2017)

Alan O said:


> If that's your idea of a circle, you really shouldn't consider designing wheels!
> 
> *modified quickly to try to sound even funnier, but the first version got a laugh


That edit has spoilt my comeback now!


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> As would untold amounts of others. Either everyone here completely lacks enterprising thinking, or are just having a laugh whilst acknowledging to themselves the idea is good. But serious business, like serious cycling, requires serious people. And that is what has always been my advantage in life.


Seriously?


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## classic33 (22 Sep 2017)

[QUOTE 4967686, member: 21629"]1. Accy has got a competitor.
or
2. Blazed is Accy's twin brother.[/QUOTE]
First one.


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## Alan O (22 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> That edit has spoilt my comeback now!


Ooh, sorry!


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## slowmotion (22 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> My plan B was to use a an out use quarry. Such as the abondoned slate quarry in Llanberis near Mt Snowdon. Snowdonia is a peak cycling and tourist area and cheaper than Hertfordshire. All it needs is some grading and tarmac.
> View attachment 374772


My team of lawyers will be in touch shortly_ re _my post #36 , intellectual property etc...the usual stuff....

I'm prepared to settle.


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## subaqua (23 Sep 2017)

User said:


> Dragons' Den would be so much fairer, if the dragons were put into weight divisions.


Yeah but what if you were close to the top of one division . A pie at lunch and you could be in a different division ...


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## subaqua (23 Sep 2017)

MacB said:


> Well Marky's funny, what's your bit in the dynamic duo again?


Which ones on the left ?


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## gavgav (23 Sep 2017)

blazed said:


> I didn't think there were any steeper roads than hardknott pass (35%) in the UK. Regardless this wouldn't be some little crusty lane that hits high gradient for 10 metres, it would be an epic mound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You clearly haven't been up Hardknott Pass.......Crusty Lane!!


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## Tim Hall (23 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> View attachment 374881
> 
> There's a road that goes up almost to the phone mast at the top. From the left of the building at the bottom.
> Straight up. 60°+ in parts.


60 degrees. Really? Where is it?


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## classic33 (23 Sep 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> 60 degrees. Really? Where is it?


Beacon Hill. Doesn't get used much these days though


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## Tim Hall (23 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> Beacon Hill. Doesn't get used much these days though


Wikipedia lists a good twenty beacon hills in the uk. Where is this one?


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## classic33 (23 Sep 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Wikipedia lists a good twenty beacon hills in the uk. Where is this one?


Halifax


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## Tim Hall (24 Sep 2017)

classic33 said:


> View attachment 374881
> 
> There's a road that goes up almost to the phone mast at the top. From the left of the building at the bottom.
> Straight up. 60°+ in parts.


Right. 60 degrees for a surfaced road is, umm, nonsense. Back up the thread someone asked about slope gradients as a percentage. A 60 degree slope is 173%. 

The only way that's 60 degrees is if it's 60 degrees Fahrenheit.


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## srw (24 Sep 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Right. 60 degrees for a surfaced road is, umm, nonsense. Back up the thread someone asked about slope gradients as a percentage. A 60 degree slope is 173%.
> 
> The only way that's 60 degrees is if it's 60 degrees Fahrenheit.


60 degrees from the vertical?


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## Tin Pot (24 Sep 2017)

60° of separation


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## Dec66 (24 Sep 2017)

They like to hang the washing out across the street up that way. Maybe 60° is the temperature of the wash.


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