# Riding on the drops



## fudgedog (30 Oct 2009)

95% of the time I ride on the top (no jokes please) but when I move hands to the drops it just doesn't feel right. If I grip the curves (again no jokes) braking feels awkward and if I move hands down to the bottom flats I feel my hands are comming off the ends of the bars, they feel a bit short? Are there different profiles, lengths etc any suggestions


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## Norm (30 Oct 2009)

You can get different profiles, lengths, widths etc.

Having only last week bought my first road bike in over 30 years, I was surprised how far up the brake levers are. Very comfortable and accessible when riding on the hoods but a stretch to reach, to brake or change gear, when on the drops.


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## colinr (30 Oct 2009)

Drops probably feel weird because you use them <5% of the time! I know what you mean though, mine are the same but I figure if I used them more they'd feel better.

You could try adjusting the handlebar rotation to change the angles.


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## gf1959 (30 Oct 2009)

I agree with the po,i don't feel right on the drops,the brakes don't fall nicely to hand and i don't have the same feeling of control. I stick with the tops and that suits me fine,not like i'm desperately trying to be more aero-dynamic like a serious club rider anyway.


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## Mr Farley (30 Oct 2009)

As has already been said, I would try rotating the bars forward a bit. Even a few millimetres will make a difference.


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## bonj2 (30 Oct 2009)

try changing the saddle position.
The drops don't feel right with the saddle too low.
For me the drops is often the most comfortable position, though the hoods are comfortable as well.
Road bike brake levers (like STIs) are designed to be used from the drops - it may be that you have set them up to the ideal position when using the hoods, when *you actually want to set them up so that they are a compromise between how good they are from the hoods and how good they are from the drops.*
The first experience i had of riding a bike with drop bars (properly as an adult) was from doing the conversion from flat bars myself. I put the STIs on and positioned them as i would want to use them from the hoods, but then tried riding on the drops, and thought "oh! the brake levers are too high up!" and knew instantly that i had to change them, an (initially unintuitive but not at all bad in the long term) consequence of which was that the 'hoods' position was more stretched out than what it would have been if i'd never intended to ride on drops.
Also, dont' want to tech any grandmothers to suck eggs but make sure they are the same height and position on the bars _as each other_. You'd be surprised how many cyclists ride along on bikes that aren't.
I also have ergo bars, i.e. with a flat section. The flat section is at 45 degrees to the ground, and the actual brake levers themselves are vertical.
Personally I can't stand handlebars that are curved all the way. Your hand isn't curved backwards, so why are the bars...? 
The drops position gives the most control of the bike and the best control of the brake levers. coming down hardknott pass earlier this year, 1 in 3, hairpin bends in thepissing rain, very difficult descent, so going very slowly, under 10mph - drops all the way. descending kirkstone pass - much faster, sweeping bends - again, drops. Can only do active countersteering from the drops (and even then not all the time).
A lot of flat riding I do on the drops, which i never used to. I find them comfy for just cruising along on.
Used to find them awkward-feeling, like my torso was scrunched up. Played around with the saddle position and found that with the saddle higher the chest cavity was open more. Use them all the time now.


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## raindog (30 Oct 2009)

bonj2 said:


> The drops position gives the most control of the bike and the best control of the brake levers


+1
Absolutely - more control and more leverage on the brake levers, so more powerfull braking.
Nothing like being in full control hurtling down a hill flat out!
Use them drops!


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## Gerry Attrick (30 Oct 2009)

You could try a pair of the relatively new shaped compact designs such as FSA produce, Omega for instance. They have a shallower drop and a longer horizontal grip section which feel very comfortable and secure.

e.g. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/FSA_Omega_Alloy_Compact_Handlebar/5360036373/


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## yello (30 Oct 2009)

Many riders (of the casual type) rarely ride on the drops. I'd put myself in that category. It's also not uncommon for riders not to be able to brake effectively from the drops; either because they cannot reach or the angle is wrong. Why, just today, I witnessed my clubmate (a rider of many many years) come off the drops to brake from the hoods.

I'd disagree with changing your saddle position to suit riding on the drops. The saddle's position is primarily about comfort (again, for the casual cyclist). Changing that can introduce a whole host of other problems! If you have problems with the bar position, or braking, then address those directly either by finding more suitably shaped/sized bars or adjusting lever positions.


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## peanut (30 Oct 2009)

yello said:


> I'd disagree with changing your saddle position to suit riding on the drops. The saddle's position is primarily about comfort (again, for the casual cyclist). Changing that can introduce a whole host of other problems! If you have problems with the bar position, or braking, then address those directly either by finding more suitably shaped/sized bars or adjusting lever positions.



I couldn't agree more. Once your saddle position is right you shouldn't need to change it to improve another deficient aspect of your position on the the bike.

Some riders have very fixed ideas about how a bike should be ridden and what components should be fitted.
I would also recommend you try both the drops and the brake hoods adjust the stem height and length as necessary and make your own mind up about which suits your type of riding


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## swee'pea99 (31 Oct 2009)

I use the drops at least half a dozen times a year - anytime I'm battling into a really tough headwind. Other than that, sitting on the hoods feels sweet to me...


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2009)

Gerry Attrick said:


> You could try a pair of the relatively new shaped compact designs such as FSA produce, Omega for instance. They have a shallower drop and a longer horizontal grip section which feel very comfortable and secure.
> 
> e.g. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/FSA_Omega_Alloy_Compact_Handlebar/5360036373/



Agreed.
Changed to these bars this summer and they're way better than my previous pistol-grip bars. The Omegas are slightly shorter forward reach so you may feel a longer stem's required.


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## Dave5N (31 Oct 2009)

If you can't ride the drops and you are reasonably flexible, I reckon you have the bike set up wrong.

Some people can'tget the pelvis to rotate and have to bend their back, which is no good at all. If you don't use the drops, get rid. Fit a flat bar.


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## Dave5N (31 Oct 2009)

Smoe dodgy advice here. You certainly don't change the saddle position to suit the bars/stem position. Quite the reverse.

The drops for a fit flexible rider should be the default position.

If you have the levers too high you will find it hard to brake: that said, many riders have the seat wrong so then can't crook the elbow into the drop.

For a lesson in set-up the Track world cup today was a masterclass.


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2009)

Dave5N said:


> Smoe dodgy advice here. You certainly don't change the saddle position to suit the bars/stem position. Quite the reverse.
> 
> .



Absolutely right. So many get this wrong.

Good set-up advice here...

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm


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## lukesdad (31 Oct 2009)

Hand size is another factor my hands are pretty small for a bloke and though i ride alot on the drops I come up onto the hoods to brake just more comfortable.


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## De Sisti (31 Oct 2009)

If you look at the front cover of any Cycling Plus magazine, and/or inside 
the mag, and that of Cycling Weekly, invarably you'll see a rider out of the 
saddle, on the drops. 

Apparantly, it makes cycling look more dynamic (according to Tass Whitby
of Future Publishing).


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2009)

Dave5N said:


> If you can't ride the drops and you are reasonably flexible, I reckon you have the bike set up wrong.



It's not the flexibility that keeps me out of the drops... it's me aero-belly resting on my thighs!


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## leveret (31 Oct 2009)

Fab Foodie said:


> Agreed.
> Changed to these bars this summer and they're way better than my previous pistol-grip bars. The Omegas are slightly shorter forward reach so you may feel a longer stem's required.



+1

Just got a new bike which had the FSA compact bars as standard and was a bit sceptical, even intending to replace them before the bike had even been delivered. However they are great. Very comfy positioning and easy reach to brakes and gear levers from either hoods or drops. 
'Think I'll keep them a bit longer


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## bonj2 (31 Oct 2009)

yello said:


> I'd disagree with changing your saddle position to suit riding on the drops.



I should probably qualify that - I wouldn't condone changing the saddle position to suit the bars *if the saddle is in the right place already*. Just that when I first switched to drops, my saddle was too low anyway, but the fact that it felt difficult riding on the drops was what brought this to my attention. It's quite feasible for the saddle to be a bit too low ideally speaking, but to a limited extent that doesn't actually matter for upright riding.




Gerry Attrick said:


> You could try a pair of the relatively new shaped compact designs such as FSA produce, Omega for instance. They have a shallower drop and a longer horizontal grip section which feel very comfortable and secure.
> 
> e.g. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/FSA_Omega_Alloy_Compact_Handlebar/5360036373/



talking of fsa bars: saw some kuotas in a LBS recently and they had these on: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=36075 well nice! 'specially if you don't tape muchpast the hoods.
I almost like the traditional stem clamp better than the wedge my spesh's have got. which incidentally are really comfortable bars.


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## Norm (31 Oct 2009)

Dave5N said:


> The drops for a fit flexible rider should be the default position.


I was thinking that this was my issue, not being particularly fit or flexible. Went out for a 30 minute ride earlier, though, and this comment came to mind...



Dave5N said:


> ...that said, many riders have the seat wrong so then can't crook the elbow into the drop.


I did a few metres on the drops, stopped, dismounted, found a handy brick wall, and smacked my (helmetless) head against it a few times. 

My problem was that I was riding with my arms too straight. Not locked but still too straight. I bent the elbows more and my hands just naturally fell right.

However, I still contend that, from the drops, you'll never reach the upper gear changer on a set of Shimano Sora STI levers.



Fab Foodie said:


> It's not the flexibility that keeps me out of the drops... it's me aero-belly resting on my thighs!


Yeah, I can tick that box too.


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## bonj2 (31 Oct 2009)

Dave5N said:


> If you can't ride the drops and you are reasonably flexible, I reckon you have the bike set up wrong.




agree 100%. I was trying to get across that you shouldn't set up the levers to be absolutely ideal for the hoods position, only to find that it isn't any good at all on the drops position - leading the rider to write off the drops position as "not for me", but I suspect however it's lost on many...



Dave5N said:


> The drops for a fit flexible rider should be the default position.




agree again.


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## bonj2 (31 Oct 2009)

Norm said:


> However, I still contend that, from the drops, you'll never reach the upper gear changer on a set of Shimano Sora STI levers.



or campag


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2009)

maander said:


> If you look at the front cover of any Cycling Plus magazine, and/or inside
> the mag, and that of Cycling Weekly, invarably you'll see a rider out of the
> saddle, on the drops.
> 
> ...



... and that's why every front cover looks exactly the same. C+ needs to change that mantra and get a better cover manager...


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## bonj2 (31 Oct 2009)

Fab Foodie said:


> ... and that's why every front cover looks exactly the same. C+ needs to change that mantra and get a better cover manager...



 
wot you mean to say you don't ALWAYS ride like that, all the time? you should always ride with the sun casting a dappling effect on your arms, your body, clothes and bike spotlessly clean, completley unsweaty, the hedges whooshing past in a blur, always on your big ring, serious but smiling look on your face, never carry a saddle bag, and have muscles and veins slightly bulging out of your arms.


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## Norm (31 Oct 2009)

bonj2 said:


> or campag


Give us a clue, why the disdainful visage?



bonj2 said:


> and have muscles and veins slightly bulging out of your arms.


I do have a bulge but it's cause is neither muscles nor veins and it's not from my arms. Other than that, it's all good.


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## Fab Foodie (31 Oct 2009)

bonj2 said:


> wot you mean to say you don't ALWAYS ride like that, all the time? you should always ride with the sun casting a dappling effect on your arms, your body, clothes and bike spotlessly clean, completley unsweaty, the hedges whooshing past in a blur, always on your big ring, serious but smiling look on your face, never carry a saddle bag, and have muscles and veins slightly bulging out of your arms.



Well of course _*I*_ ride like that... but others might not


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## bonj2 (31 Oct 2009)

Norm said:


> Give us a clue, why the disdainful visage?



campag = sora.


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## Norm (31 Oct 2009)

bonj2 said:


> campag = sora.


Really!  Didn't realise, I thought that was just a cheap troll at the old argument. 

I just lifted the specs for my bike from the site because I know that, on my bike at least, you couldn't reach the lever to switch to a smaller ring at either end if you were using the drops.


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## wyno70 (31 Oct 2009)

I had 'anatomic' drops on my bike when it came new and swapped them for a more traditional shaped drop bar, which was also a shallow drop. They have gone from feeling very strange to feeling very comfortable.

Problem with you moving the angle of the bar so that the drop is more comfortable, is that it may then not be so comfortable riding on the hoods. 

It's simply a case of playing around and seeing what suits you. Takes some time I'm afraid but you'll get there in the end!


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## Dave5N (1 Nov 2009)

Norm said:


> However, I still contend that, from the drops, you'll never reach the upper gear changer on a set of Shimano Sora STI levers.




I'd agree. Sora levers are shoot, except thne reach adjust makes them good for young riders (and they're affordable for parents).


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## Dave5N (1 Nov 2009)

I still maintain if you want to ride a drop bar bike - and I don't mind if you don't, all bikes are good - set it up so the drops are a comfortable place to be. I have my own sciatica issues now which means the bars are higher then my racing position, but I'm still in the hook.


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## bonj2 (1 Nov 2009)

Norm said:


> Really!  Didn't realise



oh yeah, ALL campag shifters have got those little crap tabs on the inside of the hoods for upshifts just like sora.


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## bonj2 (1 Nov 2009)

Dave5N said:


> I'd agree. Sora levers are shoot, except thne reach adjust makes them good for young riders (and they're affordable for parents).



sram have reach adjust as well.


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## Ant (2 Nov 2009)

I can shift from the drops on my campagnolo gears just fine.


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## raindog (2 Nov 2009)

yep - me too.


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## Dave5N (5 Nov 2009)

bonj2 said:


> sram have reach adjust as well.



I'm not very familiar with SRAM - would love to try a set.


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## peanut (5 Nov 2009)

Dave5N said:


> I'd agree. Sora levers are shoot, except thne reach adjust makes them good for young riders (and they're affordable for parents).




please don't be put off Sora levers by this comment. Sora levers are excellent value and very good quality. They are strong reliable and durable and above all they are more straightforward to use for cyclists that are new to lever gear shifts.

I have used 8x and 9x speed and both are comfortable to ride on the hoods. I can brake easily from the hoods and my partner (who has small hands) can also brake without problem .

There is a lot of snobbery in biking just as there is in golf or any other sport. You don't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on top price 'labels' to get something that is perfectly useable and acceptable.


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## Dave5N (6 Nov 2009)

peanut said:


> please don't be put off Sora levers by this comment. Sora levers are excellent value and very good quality. They are strong reliable and durable and above all they are more straightforward to use for cyclists that are new to lever gear shifts.
> 
> I have used 8x and 9x speed and *both are comfortable to ride on the hoods.* I can brake easily from the hoods and my partner (who has small hands) can also brake without problem .
> 
> There is a lot of snobbery in biking just as there is in golf or any other sport. You don't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on top price 'labels' to get something that is perfectly useable and acceptable.



It's very difficult for ordinary people to use Sora levers from the drops. Which is what this thread is about and you are not.


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## peanut (6 Nov 2009)

Dave5N said:


> It's very difficult for ordinary people to use Sora levers from the drops. Which is what this thread is about and you are not.



I was responding to your comment on the quality of Sora levers because I have them and use them and I disagree with your opinion.Your comment wasn't anything to do with using Sora gears from the drops it was about the quality in general . Suggest you read your post and wind ya neck in 



The majority of leisure riders do not use the drops. If you watch the T d F on Sky you'll see that elite riders use the hoods most of the time also. It is probably only in sprinting that they get used.

Of course there are always the occasional pedant that thinks that by riding in the drops ,that somehow miraculously transforms them into an elite race rider ho ho


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## Keith Oates (6 Nov 2009)

I ride most of the time on the tops and find the braking is OK but if going fast downhill I go into the drops and consider it's better to have something pushing back at you in the section between forefinger and thumb and the hands feel more secure, if the road is bumpy, as the bars are surrounding the hands, except from the opening towards the back of the bike. I also go into the drops when there is a headwind.


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## bonj2 (6 Nov 2009)

peanut said:


> The majority of leisure riders do not use the drops. If you watch the T d F on Sky you'll see that elite riders use the hoods most of the time also. It is probably only in sprinting that they get used.



Only generally because they're lazy, and riding on the drops doesn't come naturally to them so they don't bother trying it, as they incorrectly perceive that less upright = less comfortable and less safe, OR, simply *because* of the fact that they've only got sora.


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## xpc316e (6 Nov 2009)

The whole drop handlebar problem can be solved in one fell swoop by purchasing a recumbent. I struggled with handlebar position for approximately 38 years before I bought one. Not only am I now extremely comfortable with respect to my hands and arms, but I have no neck/back/shoulder/crotch pains or numbness in my hands. I found that the adjustments that I made on a conventional bike merely meant that it was slightly less uncomfortable, never actually comfortable.


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## bonj2 (6 Nov 2009)

xpc316e said:


> The whole drop handlebar problem can be solved in one fell swoop by purchasing a recumbent. I struggled with handlebar position for approximately 38 years before I bought one. Not only am I now extremely comfortable with respect to my hands and arms, but I have no neck/back/shoulder/crotch pains or numbness in my hands. I found that the adjustments that I made on a conventional bike merely meant that it was slightly less uncomfortable, never actually comfortable.



But that creates a whole load of other problems.


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## peanut (6 Nov 2009)

*Bonj2 is a troll*



bonj2 said:


> Only generally because they're lazy, and riding on the drops doesn't come naturally to them so they don't bother trying it, as they incorrectly perceive that less upright = less comfortable and less safe, OR, simply *because* of the fact that they've only got sora.



I think you should watch some pro riders when they ride in the peleton all day for hours. You'll not see many in the drops. Obviously you don't ride with any clubs or other riders to have noticed you are the only one riding in the drops 

people with closed minds and a one track blinkered view of things can't face the possibility they may be wrong or that there may be an alternative . 

With you Bonj I know you well enough to know that you are one of the worst trolls on CC and a right royal pain in the ass so once again I have been succered into to replying to your silly baiting


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## jimboalee (6 Nov 2009)

peanut said:


> *Bonj2 is a troll*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To reinforce what Peanut has said.

In the middle of the peleton, there is much reduced wind resistance. Occasionally, there is sufficient draft to get 'sucked' along by the other riders. In these circumstances, making your upper body more akin to a sail is desirable. 
You may see riders in the peleton steering with one finger ( or less ).

Riding on the drops reduces frontal area. It is uncomfortable at first but you soon get used to the position.
Leisure riders should get some practice at it because when there is a stiff headwind, going to the drops makes a recognisable difference.
So much so that when you sit up and go back to the hoods, it feels like you've released a parachute.


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## GrasB (6 Nov 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Riding on the drops reduces frontal area. It is uncomfortable at first but you soon get used to the position.
> Leisure riders should get some practice at it because *when there is a stiff headwind, going to the drops makes a recognisable difference.*
> So much so that when you sit up and go back to the hoods, it feels like you've released a parachute.


Amen brother! The only time I miss drops on my bikes is when I'm slogging along to a stiff headwind, I have to really tuck in my arms & it's not a natural position for longer periods. But like everything it's a compromise & mine is to abandon drop bars (& flat bars) for bull bars for various reasons.


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## peanut (6 Nov 2009)

GrasB said:


> Amen bother! The only time I miss drops on my bikes is when I'm slogging along to a stiff headwind, I have to really tuck in my arms & it's not a natural position for longer periods. But like everything it's a compromise & mine is to abandon drop bars (& flat bars) for bull bars for various reasons.



I've yet to try bull bars . I am looking forward to trying some on my TT bike I hope to build for my first TT next April. Are they comfortable ? 

I am able to tuck down into the same position on the hoods as I can achieve in the drops. Shaun Yates used to do the same thing .Rarely saw him in the drops but god he had long arms didn't he !


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## GrasB (6 Nov 2009)

peanut said:


> I've yet to try bull bars . I am looking forward to trying some on my TT bike I hope to build for my first TT next April. Are they comfortable ?


Bulls are the only thing I can feel truly comfortable on, I have them on all 3 bikes including a HT MTB. I get some odd looks with road bike shifter/brake levers & bulls.


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## peanut (6 Nov 2009)

GrasB said:


> Bulls are the only thing I can feel truly comfortable on, I have them on all 3 bikes including a HT MTB. I get some odd looks with road bike shifter/brake levers & bulls.



have you got a pic of your road bike setup ? what shifters are you using ?


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## GrasB (6 Nov 2009)

On the road fixie I'm using SRAM TT 900 brake levers. The geared bikes are a little oddball but they work for me, both bikes have Cane Creek Drop V brake levers combined with Dura Ace (MTB) & Campag Record bar end shifters (Road).


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## Davidc (6 Nov 2009)

jimboalee said:


> when there is a stiff headwind, going to the drops makes a recognisable difference.
> So much so that when you sit up and go back to the hoods, it feels like you've released a parachute.



That's absolutely right, but more riders could also benefit from using the drops when riding steeply uphill as well.


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## jimboalee (7 Nov 2009)

Another occasion where 'riding on the drops' is preferable is on the track.

Track bikes dont have hoods. Mine only had handlebar ribbon on the drops from about half way round the bend.

Some riders 'bottled out' when it came to standing up while holding the bars by the straight bit of the drops.

It is something every cyclist should do at least once.


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## Dave5N (7 Nov 2009)

You are right on both counts Jimbo. On the track you should be on the drops for control.

Peanut, I have Sora levers on one of my bikes. That's how I know it's pretty hard to change gear from the drops using the silly little black button.


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## jimboalee (7 Nov 2009)

Dave5N said:


> You are right on both counts Jimbo. On the track you should be on the drops for control.
> 
> Peanut, I have Sora levers on one of my bikes. That's how I know it's pretty hard to change gear from the drops using the *silly little black button*.



Sora has never been on my shopping list. Nor have any other levers with a "silly little black buton".

Instead of struggling to get a thumb to the "silly little black buton", I can change both ways with an outstretched index and middle finger.


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## De Sisti (8 Nov 2009)

Davidc;987193...... but more riders could also benefit from using the drops when riding steeply uphill as well.[/QUOTE said:


> I disagree. IMO it's much easier to climb steep hills when hands are rested on the
> hoods.


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## peanut (8 Nov 2009)

Dave5N said:


> You are right on both counts Jimbo. On the track you should be on the drops for control.
> 
> Peanut, I have Sora levers on one of my bikes. That's how I know it's pretty hard to change gear from the drops using the silly little black button.



Yeah me too . I have 9 speed on my winter hack upgraded from 8 speed sora. I quite like using it cos I only ride in the hoods. 
My top half weighs over 11 stones which is a lot of weight to put into the drops.


Sora are bottom of the range lever set, intended primarily for use by novice riders who would not be expected to use the drops . They are designed to be used from the hoods .

I have 105 10xspeed on my summer bike . Its like getting into an automatic after driving a manual. You have to make a quick mental adjustment.


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