# Can anyone offer me any advice on this building matter please?



## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

Hi, I got a plumber out today because the overflow disc fell off on the bath and needed putting back on. He took the side off the bath to do it and discovered a leak!! and said I needed a new floor, new bathroom because it would have to be ripped out etc. Upon further inspection he said I needed to contact the home insurance because the joist had totally rotted due to the leak and that he couldn't put a new bathroom in and that it was a builder I needed? He showed me it and the joist had definitely rotted.
Its a very small bathroom say 2M by 2M, Is anyone on here a builder who could give me a very rough estimate of how much a replacement joist would be please and new bathroom floor? I've checked the home insurance and I don't think it will cover it due to the leak taking place over time. Obviously I would have dealt with it straight away and not allowed the joist to rot. I'm so fed up about this, its one thing after another. ATM.


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## ClichéGuevara (7 Oct 2021)

How far along has it rotted?

Would it be possible to cut out the rotten section and 'splint' the existing one onto fresh wall hangers with a 2m long replacement joist, or if it's on the ground floor, can you build a supporting buttress under the new joists?


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

ClichéGuevara said:


> How far along has it rotted?
> 
> Would it be possible to cut out the rotten section and 'splint' the existing one onto fresh wall hangers with a 2m long replacement joist, or if it's on the ground floor, can you build a supporting buttress under the new joists?


I don't know to tell you the truth, I'm not up at all on building work. It looked totally rotten from what I could see. It is the ground floor. I haven't even been able to eat anything today I'm that upset.


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## newts (7 Oct 2021)

Very difficult to give a ball park figure without seeing the job. 
The bath will have to come out, this means removing at least 1 row of tiles to get it out. The floor repair should be straight forward once the bath is out. Can you post some pictures of the bathroom layout & the rotten floor?


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## Cycleops (7 Oct 2021)

Oh dear, sorry about that. You might be able to do most of the hard work yourself to minimise the cost.
By that I mean ripping out the bath, toilet and tiles. Are you handy? 
Then get a good carpenter to splice in a new joist, should be possible. Is the flooring tongue and groove? Even easier if it's grooved chipboard. If so should be fairly easy to remove the affected parts. Again a carpenter could make good.


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

newts said:


> Very difficult to give a ball park figure without seeing the job.
> The bath will have to come out, this means removing at least 1 row of tiles to get it out. The floor repair should be straight forward once the bath is out. Can you post some pictures of the bathroom layout & the rotten floor?


 Thanks for your reply, I'm not sure how to post photos on this forum. I'll take some photos tomorrow.


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## Drago (7 Oct 2021)

Fix the leak, put the panel back on the bath, move house.


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## Cycleops (7 Oct 2021)

To post photos click on the Attach Files and select the folder on your phone/tablet and mark the required pics. It will then upload.


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> Oh dear, sorry about that. You might be able to do most of the hard work yourself to minimise the cost.
> By that I mean ripping out the bath, toilet and tiles. Are you handy?
> Then get a good carpenter to splice in a new joist, should be possible. Is the flooring tongue and groove? If so should be fairly easy to remove the affected parts. Again a carpenter could make good.


No I'm not that handy, I can do very basic tiling only and painting/decorating etc, that's it. The flooring is wood and then it has non stick tiles over the top. Under the bath its just the wood.


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

Cycleops said:


> To post photos click on the Attach Files and select the folder on your phone/tablet and mark the required pics. It will then upload.


 Thanks, I' will take some tomorrow and upload.


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## Cycleops (7 Oct 2021)

If you can do that you should be able to do the stuff I outlined, shouldn't be that difficult, just hard work.

You don't need a need a new bath/ toilet if you don't want to replace them.

You might be able to find a handyman locally who can help you out. I found an old boy when I was doing my house in UK. He was retired and didn't want much money, just enjoyed the work to keep him busy. Ask around and look on notice boards.
Whatever you do don't hire a man with a white van and a broad southern Irish accent 

YouTube is your friend when it comes to this sort of thing:


View: https://youtu.be/wVRn3sYzK0w


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## winjim (7 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> Fix the leak, put the panel back on the bath, move house.


Yep, literally done that. I'm sure I've told the tale of selling a house with a tiny leak in the bathroom and some slight discolouration on the kitchen ceiling and returning to pick up some post a couple of weeks after moving out to see a mahoosive hole where the discolouration used to be...

Caveat emptor and all that, I'm sure they must have had a survey done.


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## TissoT (7 Oct 2021)

I undertook the the same work for a client due to the joist being rotten from a leak from the shower trap.

It was paid for via a insurance claim.

Removed the bathroom suite removed the joist and replaced with new and fitted the existing suite inc new tray shower screen.
The bathroom was 3.8 x 4m
Total £4.800 3 years ago.


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## PaulSB (7 Oct 2021)

25+ years ago we had an undetected bathroom leak. When it eventually became obvious we claimed and our insurers paid out.

You can't know the insurance position until you've spoken to them. It's impossible to know what's happening under the floor until you have reason to look which is what you have done.

This is why people have insurance.


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## D_97_goodtimes (7 Oct 2021)

Hello,

Now into the second week of fixing my downstairs bathroom- a leaking tap has soaked the floorboards. It’s not that difficult but it is time consuming 

Isolate the water
Remove fixtures and fittings
Remove floorboards
Examine joist with a view to replacing the joist or treating it with wood treatment (Ronseal)
Examine floorboards to see if they can be re-used
Find and fix the leak
Let everything dry out
Repair the joist
Remove any rusty nails
Assure yourself that you are leak free
Replace the floorboards (18mm planks should do it) and screw them to the joist
Refit fixtures and fittings

Good to go

You can always follow the earlier advice of claiming on your insurance or you could get someone in.

And all things considered it’s only a leak.


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

PaulSB said:


> 25+ years ago we had an undetected bathroom leak. When it eventually became obvious we claimed and our insurers paid out.
> 
> You can't know the insurance position until you've spoken to them. It's impossible to know what's happening under the floor until you have reason to look which is what you have done.
> 
> This is why people have insurance.


 I think things are a bit different now with home insurance and that they try to get out of paying more. I've put in a claim but I'm not hopeful really because they wont pay out for damage that occurs over time. I've gone through the policy.


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## midlife (7 Oct 2021)

Slightly off topic but if building work needed I'd start looking for a builder now. It's a nightmare getting building work done. Our builder did some bathroom work and have waited months for him to get some free time to look at our extension. He is rammed with work (he is good) not to mention the cost going up.....


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## Kingfisher101 (7 Oct 2021)

Thank you everyone for your kind replies. After I get this fixed, I'm going to check the bath for leaks very couple of weeks or so. I dont want this to happen again.


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## Kingfisher101 (10 Oct 2021)

If anyone is still interested I got a very nice chap a carpenter to look at the joist and he said that it needs replacing and the floor beneath the bath but he doesn't know how far until he starts taking it up. He is going to send me a written quote over this weekend at some point.The bath and the toilet will need to come out.


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## Kingfisher101 (13 Oct 2021)

Contacted various plumbers about the bath/toilet etc. Someone was supposed to be coming out today, he didn't turn up. I had a quick look at his Facebook page and he's suffering clearly from a severe mental health crisis, loads of suicidal messages etc. So he's obviously too ill to take the job on. Someone else may be able to come to quote tomorrow, but wont be able to do the work till Dec.


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## Chislenko (13 Oct 2021)

The one big problem with doing all this work is if you are paupers like us and don't have a second bathroom to fall back on.

I did most of my own bathroom but continually hooking the loo back up every night was a pain.

And the obvious problem of removing tiles, skimming the walls etc means no showers.

Luckily I was a member of a local gym at the time so went there for a shower but having your only bathroom in disarray for any length of time is not good news.


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## Kingfisher101 (14 Oct 2021)

What I'm worried about is getting the plumber to take everything out then being let down for some reason by the carpenter. I'd still have to pay the plumber and I'd be no better off. Also I'm not paying anything upfront either. I'm getting stressed out with it because I've had some very bad experiences with tradespeople in the past. Like not turning up etc and someone once became threatening saying I had to have job done.


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## gbb (15 Oct 2021)

It may not be neccessary to remove a row of tiles. I tiled my walls to the appropriate height before fitting the bath. If i need to remove the bath now, i just have to lower it on the mounting feet and it will drop away. That may be the case in OPs house ?


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## Drago (15 Oct 2021)

Kingfisher101 said:


> someone once became threatening saying I had to have job done.


I'd love some water fairy to try that with me. I'd stuck his plunger up his arriss and parade him up and down the street like a giant lollipop.


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## berty bassett (15 Oct 2021)

I have had to change a bath for someone before and took it out without damage to the tiles by lowering bath first - but it is a real ball ache , only did it as tiles were discontinued 
Could be a easy job , could be a horrible job 
Could be pipes and electric going through old joist , bath could be screwed to wall , tiles could be well and truely stuck - if I was to price it then I would definitely cover myself 
On the other hand , it could go like clockwork and be a breeze 
I wish you good fortune 👍


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## CXRAndy (15 Oct 2021)

Make a claim, nothing to lose. You weren't aware till now-not your fault


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## CXRAndy (15 Oct 2021)

Most trades are thin on the ground. I ended up doing all my own plumbing of my new house, just signed off by building inspector and water authority-who was far more thorough than the building inspector.


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## Kingfisher101 (15 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Make a claim, nothing to lose. You weren't aware till now-not your fault


 Yes it wasn't my fault but most homeowners insurance doesn't cover water damage that *occurs over time*. Also mine doesn't cover wet rot. They will cover things like a flash flood etc. I've spoken to them and its a no.
I've someone else coming round to offer me a quote tonight. I don't mind paying a reasonable price but I'm not paying anything upfront either. Its really hard at the moment to get anyone to even quote you for a job.


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## newts (15 Oct 2021)

The wording & terminology of insurance can be a bit of a minefield. I would persevere with your claim. My experience with this is they won't pay to fix a leaking pipe, but do cover the damage caused by the leaking pipe.


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## CXRAndy (18 Oct 2021)

My joiner has said that he was called back to a renovation he did last year. The plumber found a leak on push fit connections going into the underfloor heating system( the expansion and contraction of the slab weakened the fitting. This wasn't part of the original works-so no blaming the plumber. He has said the water has damaged lots of the renovation work. 

Estimated £12K to remove new bathroom, re-tile, replace stud walling bases plate(black mould) plasterboards-water has wicked up the boards, and re instate all fittings. I personally would never use plasterboard or green moisture resistant board in future. Either something like Knauf Aquapanel or Abacus Elements board. Totally water proof


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## newts (18 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> My joiner has said that he was called back to a renovation he did last year. The plumber found a leak on push fit connections going into the underfloor heating system( the expansion and contraction of the slab weakened the fitting. This wasn't part of the original works-so no blaming the plumber. He has said the water has damaged lots of the renovation work.
> 
> Estimated £12K to remove new bathroom, re-tile, replace stud walling bases plate(black mould) plasterboards-water has wicked up the boards, and re instate all fittings. I personally would never use plasterboard or green moisture resistant board in future. Either something like Knauf Aquapanel or Abacus Elements board. Totally water proof


Plasterboard is not a suitable substrate for tiling in wet areas like a shower enclosure(m/resistant is only marginally better). As you quite rightly suggest a tile backer board for wet areas is best, tanking coat over plasterboard a lowly second. Over 30 years I have replaced many bathrooms for customers with plasterboard failure being the root cause. Nowadays I regularly inspect new builds & plasterboard (now moisture resistant) is still the element that fails.


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## Kingfisher101 (18 Oct 2021)

I think I've got it sorted now, I've got a plumber coming one day to take out the bath/toilet, the next day the joist/s and floor are getting done and the following day toilet back in and new bath. I'm having a go at tiling the floor myself, following on from previous tiling and decorating success.


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## CXRAndy (21 Oct 2021)

Have you seen these 

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Vitrex-LASH-Tile-Levelling-Clips---Pack-of-100/p/210072

Make placing and leveling up tiles a doddle 

My tiler used them, super quick


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## neil_merseyside (21 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Have you seen these
> 
> https://www.wickes.co.uk/Vitrex-LASH-Tile-Levelling-Clips---Pack-of-100/p/210072
> 
> ...



I tried them they are rubbish! Base clip was actually just so variable in moulding accuracy that they ranged from a few OK, to being tough to break (cleanly) and mostly too damn tough to break at all (without killing the tile!) and so most needed cutting off/back with a stanley knife.


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## CXRAndy (28 Oct 2021)

He must using better, because from I saw he had no problems removing the clips after tiling


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## newts (28 Oct 2021)

The Rubi Cyclone clips work very well & break off easily.


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