# Is a full road bike quicker ?



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

I am trying to improve my average over my seven mile commute, best is 17.5, last night I did 16.9, I am using a Cannondale Hybrid and am going to start looking for a Road Bike in anticipation of the CTW scheme coming round again soon.

I am not getting to fixated on the average but like it as a good indicator of progress, I reckon if I can do that elusive 20 mph average I will be happy and forget about it.

Anyone gone from a Hybrid to a full on roadie and did you go any faster, what were the other benefits or downsides, also, any suggestions on what to get up to a grand seeing as its "on the drip" 

I am thinking that it wont make much difference really, mainly as its down to actual effort, small advantage from being a bit lighter, aerodynamic advantage of the lower bars and riding position, cant see 5mm narrower tyres makign much difference. 

What I was thinking is ride wise, if a roadie is softer/better riding than my frankly rock hard Cannondale it may allow higher speeds over marginal surfaces or do the skinny wheels mean you have to take it easier ?


----------



## 4F (3 Jun 2009)

Do the Tour de France riders race on hybrids ?


----------



## Jake (3 Jun 2009)

hi, i went from MTB to road bike, is that what they are called. you know, a racer. Much much better, fater. yes bumpy and very different handeling, but in the 4months of having it, i'#ve not looked back. (until this week wher its in the shop being repaird lol)


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Do the Tour de France riders race on hybrids ?




Yes, but to be fair, Lance Armstrong isnt a podgy 38 year old Database Administrator


----------



## Jake (3 Jun 2009)

lol


----------



## garrilla (3 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> Yes, but to be fair, Lance Armstrong isnt a podgy 38 year old Database Administrator



in his dreams


----------



## Black Sheep (3 Jun 2009)

Road bikes are bumpier - but they're also faster.

some hybrids are quite badly designed, intended for a slow pootle to the shops

my average speed varies a fair amount on the same route between 15mph and 25mph on my road bike, prior to that it was 12mph to 15mph on a mountain bike.

you'll be able to get the power down easier due to the riding position compared to the hybrid that'll have a more upright riding position.


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

Changed from hybrid to race bike recently. I don't use the racebike for commuting though. The racebike is a hell of a lot faster. I'd say the race bike is more comfortable and fun to ride. Minor bumps are more noticeable but other than that the racebike is more comfortable in just about every way. It changes your cycling lines through roads, you just cannot do some of the mega poor urban surfaces. That might be seen as a downside. Another downside is it's a problem getting 100% out of the racebike. You really need race pedals rather than SPDs and to get it into the higher gears. 

The biggest problem with the racebike is really that you don't feel exercised at all. You go along, post a time faster than you could possibly do on the hybrid and the legs don't hurt and you aren't tired. If you have hills it gets even sillier as you can do the roadie's conserving energy trick by going slightly slower up a hill than you would be on the hybrid but using virtually no energy.


----------



## RedBike (3 Jun 2009)

> I am thinking that it wont make much difference really, mainly as its down to actual effort,


Sadly yes it is down to effort. However, a good road bike will turn more of that effort into speed. There's probably not much in at low speeds, but if you're pushing hard then you should start to really notice the difference between bikes. 



> small advantage from being a bit lighter, aerodynamic advantage of the lower bars and riding position,


There's nothing small about the areodynamic advantage. At 20mph something like 95% of the resistance you're experiancing is due to wind resistance (can't remember the actual figure). Simply going from riding on the top (like a hybrid) to riding on the drop bars will give you an extra mile per hour or two. Weight doesn't make a big difference on the hills but it is suprisingly noticable on the hills. 



> cant see 5mm narrower tyres makign much difference.


Changing to narrower lighter (and higher pressure) tyres will probably have the most effect on the bike. Changing the tyres on your hybrid from say 30mm to 23mms (I don't know what they currently are) will make a huge difference to the way it rides.


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2009)

I've recently went from hybrid to road bike. On the first few outings I remember thinking, 'oh this is a bit wobbly'. However, I also noticed that I had gained a new ability to accelerate where previously I 'slowly cranked up the speed'.

Now, the wobblyness has gone and has been replaced with responsiveness. It really is a joy to ride my road bike. I have had some discomfort niggles, but I think I am starting to resolve those. 

I hate the days now when the weather is poor and I go back on the hybrid. It feels like a lump of lead. In fact, if I could afford it I would get a poor weather road bike and be shot of the hybrid altogether!


----------



## jimboalee (3 Jun 2009)

Don't try to put up a PB on roads which are also inhabited by cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorbikes and other cyclists.

That's if you don't have a Garmin.

One day, you will push that little bit too hard and come a cropper.

If you do have a Garmin, there are post process tricks that filter out all the stops and slow riding, which gives you a 'cruising average' rather than an overall average.


----------



## ShinSplint (3 Jun 2009)

marinyork said:


> The biggest problem with the racebike is really that you don't feel exercised at all. You go along, post a time faster than you could possibly do on the hybrid and the legs don't hurt and you aren't tired. If you have hills it gets even sillier as you can do the roadie's conserving energy trick by going slightly slower up a hill than you would be on the hybrid but using virtually no energy.



Well then you're not working hard enough, you're simply settling for an equal or slightly faster time, and enjoying the easier ride.

If you work as hard on the race bike as you do on the hybrid, you'll get much quicker times, I thought that was the idea...


----------



## jimboalee (3 Jun 2009)

ShinSplint said:


> Well then you're not working hard enough, you're simply settling for an equal or slightly faster time, and enjoying the easier ride.
> 
> If you work as hard on the race bike as you do on the hybrid, you'll get much quicker times, I thought that was the idea...



I've NEVER seen a hybrid on a 200 km Rando.

Roadrace bikes, - easier for the same speed. This is NOT a problem MarinYork, its an advantage.

PS Roadrace bikes have a lower....... Cd....Take a sip from the grail.


----------



## jimboalee (3 Jun 2009)

Coming to think about it, my Apollo County is 33lb. 26" big tyres and a Sturmey 3 speed.
My SWorks is HALF the weight. No wonder it's faster......


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

ShinSplint said:


> Well then you're not working hard enough, you're simply settling for an equal or slightly faster time, and enjoying the easier ride.
> 
> If you work as hard on the race bike as you do on the hybrid, you'll get much quicker times, I thought that was the idea...



(a) I've not had it long
( there is no speedometer fitted
(c) I don't have road shoes as I've already stated
(d) Same number of idiots on the roads. You simply cannot go that fast in some urban situations, it's too dangerous. You need to get it out in the countryside and at quieter times to really put the power down.

From the point of view of climbing hills in a group I do find the racebike very annoying as you dawdle along at their pace with no effort rather than enjoying the hill peddling like a hamster on the hybrid.


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Don't try to put up a PB on roads which are also inhabited by cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorbikes and other cyclists.
> 
> That's if you don't have a Garmin.
> 
> ...




Jimbo, good points, I agree and dont take it so seriously that I will compromise safety, there is a section on a single track road where I could go mad but choose to hold back as car drivers don't, you cant trust them not to speed without any consideration for the fact that something could be round the corner, so my average is subject to a certain extent to being careful but if you are consistent then that is just a factor.

A mate at work has offered me a Felt Road bike on loan as he doesnt use it, probably a little small, hence why he doesnt use it, he got bad advice when he bought it but I am three or four inches shorter than him at six foot so it should be ok.


----------



## I am Spartacus (3 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> A mate at work has offered me a Felt Road bike on loan as he doesnt use it, probably a little small, hence why he doesnt use it, he got bad advice when he bought it but I am three or four inches shorter than him at six foot so it should be ok.



just forget to give it back to him


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

Its a Felt F65, 56 cm, is this suitable for six feet and 16 stones plus of me, its immaculate as has hardly been used, how much would something like that be worth ?


----------



## Maz (3 Jun 2009)

What is a full/full-on road bike?


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> just forget to give it back to him




The key word here is "Mate", might buy it but also I could wait and go for one on CTW and save the tax and get to choose something.


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

Ride the felt and see how you get on .


----------



## Sittingduck (3 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> Yes, but to be fair, Lance Armstrong isnt a podgy 38 year old Database Administrator



Neither are you if those are your Hybrid averages


----------



## I am Spartacus (3 Jun 2009)

Ultegra groupset...methinks ..poss just over a grand new.. but nice
make a sensible offer.. me I'd go low
I am over 6 2 and fit a 58.. he would look as tho he dwrfed it a bit


----------



## Greenbank (3 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> I've NEVER seen a hybrid on a 200 km Rando.



Steve A (former AUK points champion) sometimes does a few Audaxes on a mountain bike with knobbly tyres just for the hell of it.

There are also quite a few hybrids on the grimpeur events. In fact, I remember playing leapfrog with a guy on a flat-barred hybrid for a few hours on the Bryan Chapman 600 last month.

Then there's the famous BMX that someone did the Elenith (4727m climbing in 300km) on:-

http://kidderminsterctc.smugmug.com/gallery/2292089_5NrUT#123787977_pW7mh-A-LB

I did have plans for an Audax BSO (Bike-Shaped-Object) challenge. Rules were similar to those for the Fixed Wheel Challenge:- 1 BSO point per 100km or AAA point of completed/validated Audaxes ridden on a bike costing under £100 retail price from Argos or Halfords. The only equipment changes allowed are pedals (for clipless) and a change of saddle. Knobblies, brakes-of-cheese, transmission, etc must be left as is. Broken/worn items can only be replaced with items of similar dubious quality.


----------



## mr_cellophane (3 Jun 2009)

marinyork said:


> If you have hills it gets even sillier as you can do the roadie's conserving energy trick by going slightly slower up a hill than you would be on the hybrid but using virtually no energy.



That will be why I passed a roadie at the bottom of Upminster hill , but he took me back half-way up.


----------



## jimboalee (3 Jun 2009)

Greenbank said:


> Steve A (former AUK points champion) sometimes does a few Audaxes on a mountain bike with knobbly tyres just for the hell of it.
> 
> There are also quite a few hybrids on the grimpeur events. In fact, I remember playing leapfrog with a guy on a flat-barred hybrid for a few hours on the Bryan Chapman 600 last month.
> 
> ...



When I say "NEVER" see a hybrid, I'm not deliberately looking for them. One may have passed through my line of vision and I didn't register it was a hybrid.
The main body of riders clear off eagerly and I just pootle along behind.


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

I've thought of doing an audax on the hybrid before getting the racebike but unfortunately like Bonj there's the mudguard requirement . Since getting the racebike I'm going for longer super rides and using less energy. For that purpose I think it is very good, but for shorter distances I don't think there's harm in a hybrid. If someone was doing a very long commute though, drops+thinner tyres would be a lot better.


----------



## bonj2 (3 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Don't try to put up a PB on roads which are also inhabited by cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorbikes and other cyclists.
> 
> That's if you don't have a Garmin.
> 
> ...



so in other words, 'buy a garmin'


----------



## bonj2 (3 Jun 2009)

marinyork said:


> I've thought of doing an audax on the hybrid before getting the racebike but unfortunately like Bonj there's the mudguard requirement . Since getting the racebike I'm going for longer super rides and using less energy. For that purpose I think it is very good, but for shorter distances I don't think there's harm in a hybrid. If someone was doing a very long commute though, drops+thinner tyres would be a lot better.



there isn't actually. Most audaxes i actually go on there's loads of people, on some i'd go so far as saying _most_ people, without mudguards.
A lot of people are on what i would class as more of a sportive/race bike than a traditional audax bike.
I've not done an audax where it's rained but that's perhaps testament to how likely it actually is to rain at all.


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

You been doing 100 or 200kms?


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> Neither are you if those are your Hybrid averages



No, honest I am, and thats what my computer reports, I reset it as I move off and check it when I get home as it doesnt pay to get too fixated on something on the bars !

It is quite a nice Hybrid as they go, Cannondale Bad Boy 700, 28mm slicks, pumped up to 110 psi, I have a rack and usually one pannier, I generally wear lycra for the aerodynamic advantage and its only seven miles of countryside, not much in the way of traffic, a few minor hills and only one junction to wait at. Been at it a year now, gone from 11/12 mph typical average to 15/16 mph, 17.5 mph pb and last nights attempt was 16.9.


----------



## Greenbank (3 Jun 2009)

Some Audaxes require mudguards because the controls used are commercial cafes (sometimes even volunteer's houses) and they don't want mucky/muddy arses making their chairs filthy. Some cafe controls have threatened to pull their support for an event because of the mess that was being made. Without the support of these cafes it would be nigh on impossible to run the event.

Organisers handle this by imposing a mudguard requirement.

But relatively few Audaxes stipulate mudguards, a quick look a the calendar shows it's less than 5% of them.

It may not just be for rain though. Some rides go through many fords, even shallow rivers, and along roads where nearby farms have spread it with mud.


----------



## ShinSplint (3 Jun 2009)

marinyork said:


> (a) I've not had it long
> ( there is no speedometer fitted
> (c) I don't have road shoes as I've already stated
> (d) Same number of idiots on the roads. You simply cannot go that fast in some urban situations, it's too dangerous. You need to get it out in the countryside and at quieter times to really put the power down.
> ...



marinyork,

The OP simply asked whether a road/race bike is quicker. Your points mentioned above are irrelevant. We have to assume we are comparing like-for-like i.e. road shoes/pedals are used on both bikes etc.

Your point about climbing hills just makes you sound like you're up yourself. If you're so good - start competing to a high standard, and before you know it you'll be winning gold medals.


----------



## Greenbank (3 Jun 2009)

bonj said:


> I've not done an audax where it's rained



You've not lived!


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Don't try to put up a PB on roads which are also inhabited by cars, buses, trucks, vans, motorbikes and other cyclists.
> 
> One day, you will push that little bit too hard and come a cropper.



Scaredy cat........


----------



## J4CKO (3 Jun 2009)

Also, am aiming to start going on some none commute rides with Roadie mates which is part of the requirement, its funny, one mate, he is slightly worried that I will leave him standing due to me cycling every day and I was worried because he is lighter and has a nice road bike, in reality I suspect we will just lope along at a mutually agreeable pace.


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2009)

Get fixed..........you'll love it....bit like riding an out of control rocket - especially down big hills.....


----------



## fossyant (3 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> Also, am aiming to start going on some none commute rides with Roadie mates which is part of the requirement, its funny, one mate, he is slightly worried that I will leave him standing due to me cycling every day and I was worried because he is lighter and has a nice road bike, in reality I suspect we will just lope along at a mutually agreeable pace.



You'll probably beat him......nothing better than riding every day.


----------



## marinyork (3 Jun 2009)

ShinSplint said:


> marinyork,
> 
> The OP simply asked whether a road/race bike is quicker. Your points mentioned above are irrelevant. We have to assume we are comparing like-for-like i.e. road shoes/pedals are used on both bikes etc.
> 
> Your point about climbing hills just makes you sound like you're up yourself. If you're so good - start competing to a high standard, and before you know it you'll be winning gold medals.



Your post makes you sound up yourself. You seemed to have an inability to read other people's posts and then latch onto some post and start poking fun when you know little about people. If it were upto you everybody should have just answered "Yes". I think you need to grow up and stop trolling.


----------



## ShinSplint (3 Jun 2009)

marinyork,

Your initial post suggested that cycling on a road/race bike does not get you out of breath, compared to using a hybrid bike. I was simply trying to help you understand that working equally as hard on the road bike will get you further, faster. If all you want is to get from A to B in a leisurly comfortable manor, then by all means, hybrid all the way.

If on the other hand you want to cover more distance, and ride faster, and perhaps competitively, its road bike all the way.

No harm meant. And I certainly dont just "poke fun" at people.

Honestly...


----------



## Sittingduck (3 Jun 2009)

Fair play Jacko - you're pretty quick for a Hybridist 
I really struggle to get more than about 14 avg on mine.

Good luck with the road bike 
SD


----------



## HJ (3 Jun 2009)

Black Sheep said:


> Road bikes are bumpier - but they're also faster.
> 
> some hybrids are *quite badly designed*, intended for a slow pootle to the shops
> 
> ...



No, some hybrids are designed for people who want something to pootle to the shops on. Just because someone is riding a bike it doesn't mean they are trying to go as fast as possible. If you really want to go fast, get a recumbent...

Personally I can do 30mph on the flat on my hybrid, but only for short distances...


----------



## montage (3 Jun 2009)

> Its a Felt F65, 56 cm, is this suitable for six feet and 16 stones plus of me, its immaculate as has hardly been used, how much would something like that be worth ?



I had the z65. Wrote it off in a crash though


----------



## c2c (3 Jun 2009)

i commuted to work on a trek full susser, put that back in the shed and bought a bianchi road bike with road pedals and shoes as opposed to spds. the difference is huge..... on the trek i was working hard, being slow and de motivated to ride at all. on the bianchi i enjoy the ride, am much much faster, and look for reasons to extend the ride...there is an old cycling saying that sums up your connundrum...... its does not get easier you just get faster. thats what a good road racer does..imho..


----------



## Breedon (3 Jun 2009)

I got my road bike yesterday and went out on it today, the diffrence is amazing from my steel lump of a mtb at 17kg, to my ribble at 10kg very quick off the mark at the lights, the speed i found on a road bike is instant like op said on the mtb it's cranked up.

They are *twichy* at first but it doesnt take long before that goes but you do notice side wind more.


----------



## dellzeqq (3 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> I am trying to improve my average over my seven mile commute, best is 17.5, last night I did 16.9, I am using a Cannondale Hybrid and am going to start looking for a Road Bike in anticipation of the CTW scheme coming round again soon.
> 
> I am not getting to fixated on the average but like it as a good indicator of progress, I reckon if I can do that elusive 20 mph average I will be happy and forget about it.
> 
> Anyone gone from a Hybrid to a full on roadie and did you go any faster?


Yes -and I think that an improvement from 17.5 to 20mph would probably be about right. The real benefit is on longer distances.

The challenge (well, it was for me) was the position. I felt very stretched, and it took quite some getting used to. Now, if I ride the hybrid, it feels like I'm all tucked up.


----------



## MacB (3 Jun 2009)

I'm up to 14-15.5mph, depends on the wind direction, on my commutes. That's on a Surly Crosscheck with hub gear, 35mm M+ tyres(I still can't believe they weigh nearly 1kg each, rack and variety of pannier-rackpack combo's. I'm awaiting new 23mm Ultremos for my Giant hybrid, we will then see how fast that'll go. Hopefully the commuting 'workout' will make life easier for the fun rides.


----------



## magnatom (3 Jun 2009)

I had my quickest commute on the roadbike on the way home today (mostly uphill). 16.7mph moving average which over 5 miles of traffic, junctions and traffic lights is pretty good. I'd never get anywhere near that on my hybrid!


----------



## Downward (3 Jun 2009)

Some pretty good average speeds, In my car the best I have achieved is 19mph on the bike it's 7 miles in 27 mins (any mathematicians ?!)
There is way too many cars,islands,junctions and traffic lights in Birmingham oh and hills.


----------



## garrilla (3 Jun 2009)

60/27 * 7 = 15.6


----------



## dellzeqq (4 Jun 2009)

of course there's the third option. Get a Brompton. You'll be super fit in no time, and won't have to change at either end of the journey.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Jun 2009)

16.5 average last night, was trying fairly hard but there was a fair headwind so no PB, in the car today as its not moved in ages and we are off out early tonight.

Going for an 18 mph average next week, then when I get a road bike the 20, based on what has been said is in my grasp.

I know it sounds like I am getting obsessed, maybe I am but I find it does make me push rather than amble.

Its not the be all and end all and very subject to the prevailing wind/traffic etc on the day, but hey, if you do a 20 mph average once you can go on about it for ever


----------



## arranandy (4 Jun 2009)

I'm about 8-9 minutes quicker to work on my road bike compared to my hybrid. Average speed is over 17.5mph compared to about 15mph on the old clunker hybrid. Hybrid is more robust though so I tend to use it more as some of roads up here leave a lot to be desired


----------



## Downward (4 Jun 2009)

How much does one spend on a new Road bike when going from a Hybrid ?


----------



## magnatom (4 Jun 2009)

Downward said:


> How much does one spend on a new Road bike when going from a Hybrid ?




As much as the wife will allow!


----------



## garrilla (4 Jun 2009)

magnatom said:


> As much as the wife will allow!


+1


----------



## Greenbank (4 Jun 2009)

magnatom said:


> As much as the wife will allow!



I did exactly that (plus some more on top of that without telling her).

My commute is between 11km and 13km depending on the route I take. Average speeds on 3 different bikes:-

13kg flat barred hybrid (Gary Fisher Nirvhana): 22-24kph (13-14mph)
11kg Fixed road bike (Condor Tempo): 25-26kph (15-16mph)
8kg Carbon road bike (Wilier Izoard): 28-29kph (17-18mph)

It's a rather urban commute through London with various bits where I can't go as fast as I'd want to because of traffic or other cyclists.

Blatting round Richmond Park with no obstacles I'm averaging 18.6mph on the Wilier and 17.1mph on the fixed. Haven't done it on the flat barred hybrid but I'd expect it to be proportionally slower than the Tempo, mainly because of the extra weight.


----------



## HLaB (4 Jun 2009)

Before I put drops on it I think that in ideal conditions, no wind because of the gearing that for short to medium distances my flat bar road bike was faster than my dropped bike but adding wind and downhill over longer distances the drops are far faster. The other benefit I find is I can can perform better for less effort and therefore can go further.


----------



## J4CKO (4 Jun 2009)

Out of interest, how fast do pro cyclists go, what kind of averages would they be doing, as a ballpark as I realise it is subject to many factors.


----------



## jimboalee (4 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> Out of interest, how fast do pro cyclists go, what kind of averages would they be doing, as a ballpark as I realise it is subject to many factors.



*May 30, 2009: Giro d'Italia: Napoli - Anagni (202 km):
*1 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Silence-Lotto 04:30:07

Slide rule please


----------



## Greenbank (4 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> *May 29, 2009: Giro d'Italia: Avellino - Vesuvio (162 km):
> *1 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 04:33:23
> 
> Slide rule please



162/(4+(33/60)+(23/3600)) = 35.55kph.

[EDIT] Your new figures (202km in 4:30:07 = 44.87kph = 27.88mph).

That's not particularly fast though, in a peloton they maintain a much faster speed. Looking at the Tour de France:

The fastest stage in line was the 1999 stage Laval-Blois (194.5 km), won by Mario Cipollini at an average speed of 50.355 km/h (31.289mph)

The average speed of the winner of the 2005 TdF (Lance) over the whole 3607km (including time trials) was 41.654kph. 25.883mph.


----------



## Sittingduck (4 Jun 2009)

Downward said:


> How much does one spend on a new Road bike when going from a Hybrid ?



We'll require full access to your financial records in order to diagnose the correct answer


----------



## Breedon (4 Jun 2009)

Or when the wife ask's you how much did you spend you say about x amount of £'s, never give the true figure, has helped me out loads of times lol


----------



## Downward (4 Jun 2009)

Cyclescheme 

£600


----------



## fossyant (4 Jun 2009)

Breedon said:


> Or when the wife ask's you how much did you spend you say about x amount of £'s, never give the true figure, has helped me out loads of times lol



Exactly............ 

We all do it.....


----------



## Tynan (4 Jun 2009)

Greenbank said:


> 162/(4+(33/60)+(23/3600)) = 35.55kph.
> 
> [EDIT] Your new figures (202km in 4:30:07 = 44.87kph = 27.88mph).
> 
> ...



yeah but he's got a really good bike though init


----------



## kool4caats (5 Jun 2009)

Hey everyone.. this is my first post.

I love reading about others' experiences on this forum. I've just recently bought a hybrid. It's a Rigdeback Tempest. I didn't opt for a race bike because I thought that I might want to ride along tracks and stuff so wanted something that would handle that. Now I'm finding that I pretty much just stick to the roads. Although it's a hybrid, I'm impressed with this bike, I can get some decent speed on it at times.

My commute to work is 12 miles in each direction, and I've been doing it a month so far, working up to do it doing a full 5 day week, which I might manage next week, hopefully! I haven't got a computer yet, but my times for that distance range between 40 minutes and an hour - 12 to 18mph average - usually 45 to 50 mins though. I estimated it would take me an hour before trying it, so I'm pleasantly surprised. There are quite a few sets of lights though, which can take a painfully long time to sequence. And there have been some very vicious headwinds (15mph or so). Considering I've done minimal exercise over the last 2 years though, I'm quite pleased with myself. I find I start the journey wondering why I'm doing this (why didn't I take the car today), and as I progress I get more agressive, and loving it.

I feel that soon I will probably want to progress to a road bike. I'll probably keep the hybrid as well though, as long as I can find somewhere to store them both. I just wonder how much faster it will be? I think the riding position would certainly help with the head winds.


----------



## Maz (5 Jun 2009)

Welcome, kool4caats!


----------



## jimboalee (5 Jun 2009)

Greenbank said:


> 162/(4+(33/60)+(23/3600)) = 35.55kph.
> 
> [EDIT] Your new figures (202km in 4:30:07 = 44.87kph = 27.88mph).
> 
> ...



An overweight half-trained amatuer should be able to accomplish 2/3 of the pro's speeds over similar distances.

In 1976, I could ride at 2/3 of Lucien's speed, 2/3 x 21.5 = 14.4 ; and in 2006, I could ride at 2/3 of Oscar's speed. 2/3 x 25.3 = 16.9

In 1976 I rode a Peugeot 531 PX10LE, and in 2006, I rode an SWorks.


----------



## jimboalee (5 Jun 2009)

1937 was the first year a Brit was in the Tour de France. Bill Burl and Charlie Holland.

Charlie rode a bike which weighed about 22.5 - 23lb and the winning speed was 31.8 kmh, or 19.75 mph.

Now I'm considering myself on my Dawes Giro 500, riding most of the stage in a pace-line, saving my best for the run into the finish.

My uncle rode for the RAF in the thirties, and rode against Charlie.
Charlie lived in Brum in the seventies and I made a trip to Sutton Park to see the guy in the flesh.


----------



## kool4caats (5 Jun 2009)

Maz said:


> Welcome, kool4caats!



Thanks, Maz!


----------



## HJ (20 Jun 2009)

Today I rode from Edinburgh to St Andrew's, I was really surprised by just how many expensive road bike I overtook. Coming down the Cleash Hills I managed to pass every bike I came across including light weight carbon road bike ridden but club riders, down on the drops. Not only was I riding a hybrid, but I was also carrying a pannier. It is not the bike which make you fast, it is the legs, and I am not even that fast...


----------



## J4CKO (21 Jun 2009)

HJ said:


> Today I rode from Edinburgh to St Andrew's, I was really surprised by just how many expensive road bike I overtook. Coming down the Cleash Hills I managed to pass every bike I came across including light weight carbon road bike ridden but club riders, down on the drops. Not only was I riding a hybrid, but I was also carrying a pannier. It is not the bike which make you fast, it is the legs, and I am not even that fast...




Its all part of an equation that involves lots of factors but you are right in saying the rider is the biggest factor, however, the same rider on different bikes will travel faster or slower depending on the hardware sat beneath them, I noticed a difference between my Cannondale Bad Boy hybrid and the borrowed Felt f65 slinky road bike, it isnt night and day difference but its there, the waters were muddied by having no speedo and a stiff headwind, I would imagine its perhaps worth ten percent on my commute.

At the end of the day its all incremental changes and no matter how quick you think you are, there is always someone quicker just waiting to spoil your day so its not worth getting too pleased with yourself with your speed, I was doing this other week after a string of scalps, then got pounced on by a roadie who overtook, I made him work for his scalp but fair play, the lad was younger, fitter and quicker than me.

I think a lot of commuters do end up faster than some fully clad roadies just for the fact they cycle every day wheras a proportion of roadies are weekend only for various reasons.


----------



## jig-sore (21 Jun 2009)

well i have to say my road bike feels more nimble and certainly accelerates faster,
the hybrid feels much bigger and a bit chunky, but it does soak up the bumps better thanks to it's wider tyres 
my average times on both bikes are much the same, so is one quicker than the other.... i don't think so


----------



## jimboalee (22 Jun 2009)

the anorak said:


> well i have to say my road bike feels more nimble and certainly accelerates faster,
> the hybrid feels much bigger and a bit chunky, but it does soak up the bumps better thanks to it's wider tyres
> my average times on both bikes are much the same, so is one quicker than the other.... i don't think so



Are your average times on the flat or up a big long hill?


----------



## eldudino (22 Jun 2009)

I met an old roadie at the weekend, former racer who was telling me all sorts of stories about racing on the continent and how things were done back then. He must have been in his late 60's at least and we got onto the topic of bikes. He said two things will make you significantly quicker: rider weight and the amount of time spent in the saddle. He said he'd never been fitter than in the early sixties when he was cycling to university in Edinburgh from Bathgate, around about 50 miles, 3 days a week, he also said without the rest days (Tues&Thurs) he wouldn't have been as good. We were sat in a cafe, about 25 miles from Glasgow and Stirling where each of us had come from, and he put away some pancakes and the biggest chocolate/raisin/nut bar I'd ever seen, and he told me himself he only weighs 53kgs! I'm sure if I'd have followed him he'd soon have lost me.


----------



## swee'pea99 (22 Jun 2009)

I have a very good hybrid (Koga) and a very good fixie (Dawes 653) but my very good racer (Vitus) is faster than the latter and a good bit faster than the former. 

The Koga will never compete on speed, if only for its wide knobbly tyres - against 23 slicks running at 100psi+ it's no contest. And the fixie, though fearsome fast in a sprint, just runs out of gear. There's only so fast you can spin, and when push comes to shove, if the other guy can shift up (and back it with beef, of course) he's going to beat you.


----------



## Adrian_K (22 Jun 2009)

*the same*

I very recently got a road bike & was more than a little disappointed that my short sunday morning run (~20miles) was *slower* on the road bike by about 2 minutes. I'll have to do it again now I've got used to the bike.

The hybrid is a Spesh Sirrus (i.e. light) on 23c tyres and the bars are very low so aerodynamics and road drag are less of an issue.

The road bike is a hell of a lot easier to do longers distances tho'. (and go up hills and go down hills)


----------



## XmisterIS (23 Jun 2009)

J4CKO said:


> I am trying to improve my average over my seven mile commute, best is 17.5, last night I did 16.9, I am using a Cannondale Hybrid and am going to start looking for a Road Bike in anticipation of the CTW scheme coming round again soon.
> 
> I am not getting to fixated on the average but like it as a good indicator of progress, I reckon if I can do that elusive 20 mph average I will be happy and forget about it.



Are you sure its a full 7 miles?

Without wishing to be too geeky ...

7 miles in 16.9 minutes => 7*60/16.9 miles in an hour => approx. 25 mph average! (are you Lance Armstrong??!).

Yet you say that you are aiming for the elusive 20mph average, as indicated on your speedo ....

If you're nearly at 20mph, then that would be 20*16.9/60 = 5.63 miles.

summit is fishy-wise with your calculali ... cacalluli ... calcacalula ... God dammit, I'm just not that bright!


----------



## J4CKO (24 Jun 2009)

XmisterIS said:


> Are you sure its a full 7 miles?
> 
> Without wishing to be too geeky ...
> 
> ...




Sorry, I have probably mislead there, I used the average speed on my cycling computer rather than minutes versus distance, as I set off I zero it and read the result when I am on my driveway, it does all the maths, havent managed to set an average on the Road bike yet as it doesnt have a computer and its not really worth transferring it for a few days so just have to go on how it feels, it is quicker, not a vast amount but it just feels more effecient and natrual. I think a lower bottom bracket helps and I prefer drops, the tyres are marginally slimmer, it rides more smoothly and rolls a little better than my Cannondale, I think the carbon stays help in this respect, also, handling wise it feels more precise and the front end seems more grippy as if more of the weight is over the front wheel.

I miss my panniers and I cant really enjoy it totally as its worth abotu a grand and I cant afford to break anything so it makes me a bit nervous especially with it being a bit slink and me being 16.5 stones plus backpack, its that feeling of it not being mine, also I think I need a 58 frame for it to be perfect.

Basically it has convinced me I do want a drop barred bike with similar geometery but I may end up going a bit more Touring or Cyclo Cross rather than full sporty road.


----------



## jig-sore (12 Jul 2009)

sorry to drag this up again but i finally took my hybrid around my 15mile road bike route and well I'm shocked...

route: 15.01 miles (bikehike mileage)

road bike: time = 51m 49s Av = 17.38mph

Hybrid: time = 49m2s, Av = 18.37mph

so my hybrid is 1mph faster than my road bike ??? I'm putting this down to the fact that i had a point to make and so pushed hard on the hybrid.

next week i'll try it on the road bike again and see if i can beat today's time.

the point is, i don't think the hybrid is really any slower (or my road bike is shite, you choose )

this is the route... http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?id=11922


----------



## HJ (12 Jul 2009)

It is a bit like trying to race a 2CV and Ferrari, on a race track it is no contest, but in the real world on real roads...

well we have all seen the Bond movie...


----------



## jimboalee (13 Jul 2009)

Rode to work today ( 24 miles usual route, barely any wind ) on one of my racebikes ( Peugeot PX10LE 531 ).

Clear TEN minutes quicker than Dawes Giro 500 with full mudguards.


----------



## Will1985 (13 Jul 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Rode to work today ( 24 miles usual route, barely any wind ) on one of my racebikes ( Peugeot PX10LE 531 ).
> 
> Clear TEN minutes quicker than Dawes Giro 500 with full mudguards.


Drug fuelled? Either that or you think you're Tom Simpson


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

Will1985 said:


> Drug fuelled? Either that or you think you're Tom Simpson



One old guy last night looked twice . Thought he'd seen a ghost.


----------



## cyberknight (14 Jul 2009)

My average on a 26 " hybrid on slicks over my whole commute is around 16.5 mph including the hillier return trip .
On the way in its the reverse but i am to lazy to reset the computer to see . 

On the flat i can quite easily pootle around at 20 mph with the pannier and bag of crap i carry .

I have just got a team Raleigh bannana 12 speed racer on the road after much work ( anyone got a front chain ring spare? mine i think is warped ) i intend to give it a go when i can get a seat post pannier and see how it compares.

I used to ride a TT specced racer in the early 90s and it did go like a bomb but not a good commuter 

I think you have to decide whether you want comfort , speed, load carried etc before you decide on what to commute on , if you want speed sure a roady will help but at the end of the day im sure a pro cyclist would beat me on a hybrid even if i had his bike for the day , technique and fitness play a big part.


----------



## ed_o_brain (14 Jul 2009)

HJ said:


> Today I rode from Edinburgh to St Andrew's, I was really surprised by just how many expensive road bike I overtook. Coming *down* the Cleash Hills I managed to pass every bike I came across including light weight carbon road bike ridden but club riders, down on the drops. Not only was I riding a hybrid, but I was also carrying a pannier. It is not the bike which make you fast, it is the legs, and I am not even that fast...




I'm not sure you need legs for going fast down hill when you are carrying extra weight!


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

ed_o_brain said:


> I'm not sure you need legs for going fast down hill when you are carrying extra weight!



Force = Mass x acceleration.

Seeing gravity never changes, more mass gives more force.

It's called "Fat Boy's Advantage".


----------



## Sittingduck (14 Jul 2009)

I noticed "FBA" coming into play during the Dunwich Dynamo. Had to brake continually going downhill behind some slimmer riders who were spinning away. I wasn't close enough t be drafting either. Shame I am such a chicken when it comes to fast downhills or I might clock some quick speeds!


----------



## marinyork (14 Jul 2009)

In my experience FBA more than makes up for TBA going up hills. You can pull out massive chunks of time on climbs only to be overtaken and have that plus a couple of minutes taken out on the descent. FBA seems to have some magical properties on the flat where they can cruise along as 20mph forever.

My racebike is much faster than my road bike. On a long run I posted I did on a racebike it was 6mph quicker than the hybrid on average. On other runs it took 3 hours out of the century run. Three hours!


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

marinyork said:


> In my experience FBA more than makes up for TBA going up hills. You can pull out massive chunks of time on climbs only to be overtaken and have that plus a couple of minutes taken out on the descent. FBA seems to have some *magical* properties on the flat where they can cruise along as 20mph forever.
> 
> My racebike is much faster than my road bike. On a long run I posted I did on a racebike it was 6mph quicker than the hybrid on average. On other runs it took 3 hours out of the century run. Three hours!



Dangerous word round here.

Fortunately, the 'M' word in this instance is "Inertia".


----------



## marinyork (14 Jul 2009)

I just meant, these people who talk of FBA tend to have some very bulky muscles and are able to cruise along at very high speeds on the flat. That or it is very flat where all these people live and they started out on fast bikes.


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

marinyork said:


> I just meant, these people who talk of FBA tend to have some very bulky muscles and are able to cruise along at very high speeds on the flat. That or it is very flat where all these people live and they started out on fast bikes.



Indeed. The muscular guys who have the kgs, and also have the W/kg to match; the guys who easily find 360W to get up a 14% in 39 x 23 ( 4.5 W/kg ), jest continuously about FBA.

BTW, that's 80kg.... and in cycling circles, that's heavy


----------



## Davidc (14 Jul 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Force = Mass x acceleration.
> 
> Seeing gravity never changes, more mass gives more force.
> 
> It's called "Fat Boy's Advantage".



Which is also acceleration = Force/mass, so the extra force downhill is (exactly) used up accelerating the extra mass, the rest of the time the extra mass just reduces acceleration on the flat and takes extra force to shove it up hills!

Looks a lot like thin boys advantage to me.


----------



## marinyork (14 Jul 2009)

Davidc said:


> Which is also acceleration = Force/mass, so the extra force downhill is (exactly) used up accelerating the extra mass, the rest of the time the extra mass just reduces acceleration on the flat and takes extra force to shove it up hills!
> 
> Looks a lot like thin boys advantage to me.



I'll race any of these people who dub themselves fat on the flat or downhill. I wager they'll beat me by a long way .


----------



## Sittingduck (14 Jul 2009)

marinyork said:


> I'll race any of these people who dub themselves fat on the flat or downhill. I wager they'll beat me by a long way .



I don't believe in FBA on the flat but on a downhill I know it's legit


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

One method of determining the Coefficient of Drag of a wheeled vehicle is to measure the time it takes to reduce speed ( in Neutral ) along a flat road. The longer it takes, the better the Cd. In other words, the more Inertia ( mass for the same shape and volume ), the longer the vehicle will keep rolling.

Another method of determining the Coefficient of Drag of a wheeled vehicle is to measure the 'equilibrium velocity' it attains down a known slope.

The latter is easiest for a cyclist as Cross section area need not be known to calculate Power vs Velocity.

Watch out Marinyork, the 'Holy grail' is within reach…

Both of these methods DO NOT involve the vehicle to be powered. A car can be tested by pushing it to speed and then let it coast-down along a flat strip of test track.

The upshot of this is a vehicle with more mass for the same shape and volume will roll further along the flat and faster down the hill.

On a flat roadrace stage, it is a balancing act between mass for inertia and lightweight for the short climbs. This is usually done with bottles of water.


----------



## Dan B (14 Jul 2009)

Sittingduck said:


> I don't believe in FBA on the flat but on a downhill I know it's legit


Yeah, but the question is whether it's FBA or TBA _overall_ on a course that has the same amount of up as down. My intuition says TBA - uphill speed is limited by power to weight ratio, but downhill speed is probably more often limited by roadholding unless it's a straight run down with no curves on it


----------



## Sittingduck (14 Jul 2009)

coruskate said:


> Yeah, *but the question is whether it's FBA or TBA overall *on a course that has the same amount of up as down. My intuition says TBA - uphill speed is limited by power to weight ratio, but downhill speed is probably more often limited by roadholding unless it's a straight run down with no curves on it



If that's the Q, then certainly skinnies win!


----------



## marinyork (14 Jul 2009)

The FBA wins for the simple reason that riding in a group you're expected to wait at the top or part way up a hill whereas going down nobody waits .


----------



## amnezia (14 Jul 2009)

marinyork said:


> In my experience FBA more than makes up for TBA going up hills. You can pull out massive chunks of time on climbs only to be overtaken and have that plus a couple of minutes taken out on the descent. FBA seems to have some magical properties on the flat where they can cruise along as 20mph forever.
> 
> My racebike is much faster than my road bike. On a long run I posted I did on a racebike it was 6mph quicker than the hybrid on average. On other runs it took 3 hours out of the century run. Three hours!




which is why all the TDF riders are 20st blokes at 5'6 high.


----------



## marinyork (14 Jul 2009)

amnezia said:


> which is why all the TDF riders are 20st blokes at 5'6 high.



Which relates to the quantifier "in my experience", how? Even if they were 20st blokes 5'6 high they'd still be faster.


----------



## Dan B (14 Jul 2009)

marinyork said:


> The FBA wins for the simple reason that riding in a group you're expected to wait at the top or part way up a hill whereas going down nobody waits .


Heh, yes


----------



## jimboalee (14 Jul 2009)

"In my experience".....

It's PBA, ..... Powerful Bastard's Advantage.

I can climb quicker than 95% of the 'D' riders although I am three stone heavier.
I can climb quicker than 50% of the 'C' riders although I am two and a half stone heavier.
I can climb quicker than 10% of the 'B' riders although I am two stone heavier.
I don't know about the 'A' riders, they disapeared over the hill while I was looking at my front mech.


----------



## J4CKO (15 Jul 2009)

Its cos the heavier guys legs work harder all the time carrying their bodies around.


----------



## mad al (15 Jul 2009)

I had an undulating 13 mile road route that I'd ride on a hard tail mountain bike in about an hour, one day I went on the road bike..............39 minutes


----------



## hackbike 666 (15 Jul 2009)

J4CKO said:


> Yes, but to be fair, Lance Armstrong isnt a podgy 38 year old Database Administrator



Or a podgy 45 year old train driver


----------

