# Top Ten Folders?



## Sharky (10 Jul 2019)

Do we have a list anywhere on the forum of folders?

I get the impression that Bromptons would be at the top of the list, but are also at the high price range.
Then you see ones in Argos and Decathlon for less than £200, but look heavy.

Now for my other bikes, I have gladly paid £300+ for a single front wheel, but when it comes to a folder (actually two - one for me and one for the Mrs) that can be kept in the boot and once a week, have a ride along the coast after we have dropped our daughter back at her care home on a Monday ???????

So what is a good value for money list, which balances, weight, packability, durability etc?


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## vickster (10 Jul 2019)

There are some ideas here
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/best-folding-bikes-2-324714/amp

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/outdoor-activity/cycling/best-folding-bikes-8683766.html?amp

https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/out...singlespeed-and-geared-folding-bikes-from-300

I’ve just bought a Brompton as I’m starting a new contract and can take it on the train and complete the journey on the bike to avoid the tube and get some exercise. The Brompton is costly at a grand but I know that if I find myself not using it, I’ll easily sell it on and lose little money. They fold small and are not that heavy, important features for the commute.
Also lots of shops locally and around London sell and service (although I’m buying from a local bike shop that does specialise in folders)
I also think they look cooler folded and unfolded than the other brands


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## graham bowers (10 Jul 2019)

The size of your boot will have some bearing on it then. A key decision is wheel size, principally 16 inch or 20 inch. Not sure if I'd get two 20 inch wheel Dahon's in my Civic. If the foldability is so it can be kept in a car boot, weight is less of an issue than if you were intending to lug it around by hand. I do like my Dahon Speed P8 however featherlight it's not, although I'm not too bothered. It's allegedly suitable for people up to 6 foot 2 however felt very cramped to me so have bought a Litepro stem adapter and a longer Tern seatpost - the fit all depends on if that's a compromise too far for you.


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## Smudge (10 Jul 2019)

For the amount of use a folder gets with me, i couldn't justify spending over £1K and some of them are many thousands. So i bought a used Dahon and have been very happy with it.
Although i saw this on a deal site today..... £199 seems a great price
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15903287/compass-fast-forward-folding-bike-15903287
If i were still looking for a folder, i'd have been very tempted. Not bad weight at under 12kg and has Claris 8 speed.


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## Cycleops (10 Jul 2019)

If you're talking top ten then the Birdy has to come somewhere near the top if not #1. Beautiful engineered with suspension front and rear and it's evolved over time unlike the Brompton which has only incrementally changed but is the go to choice for commuters due to its fold but not much else.


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## Drago (10 Jul 2019)

I actually prefer riding the Tern to the Brompton, although the Bromp folds neater.


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## TheDoctor (10 Jul 2019)

The Decathlon folders are pretty reasonable for the price. They ride OK, but don't fold anywhere near as neatly as the Brompton.
TBH, they look rather similar to Tern / Dahon bikes, so I'd expect them to ride similarly, and a 20"wheel bike is always going to be less twitchy than a 16" wheeled one.


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## Drago (10 Jul 2019)

And what about full size folders, such as the Montague? The ride is a different league to the diddy wheelers, but then you won't slip them unobtrusively in your pocket when you get on the bus.

Your needs and circumstances are likely more important than any notional 'quality'etc.


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## 12boy (10 Jul 2019)

I had once been enamored of Bike Fridays, a handmade American bike with a cult following much like Bromptons. I found a shop that sold them and tried one out and I did not like it at all. I also found a Brompton dealer and rode one and immediately liked it and bought it without much knowledge of the bike. Later on I bought another folder, a Xootr Swift, not much known in the UK, I suspect. I liked it too but although it is a little faster and has a good derailleur, I still prefer my Brompton. What is best for you and your wife would be best decided after you rode a few diiferent machines, and it is possible you may prefer different bikes. For myself, I have found my all steel Brompton to be sturdy and very comfortable although I've modified it quite a bit. Excepting used bikes I have pretty much found you get what you pay for with cheap vs midrange bikes. Cheap bikes have cheap components, as a rule, and replacing them costs more in the long run. Plus, decent components are more likely to provide the special joy of riding with everything adjusted perfectly and working exactly as it should. Having said all that, I don't see any functional reason other than weight or aesthetics to buy top end components as lower midrange stuff is very good these days. There are plenty of inexpensive cartridge bearing hubs, bottom brackets and head sets that work very well for a long time.
One of the things I like about my Brompton is the heavy hi-ten main frame , old fashioned clamps and hinges are very sturdy. If they do wear they are fixable. Good luck on your quest, but as either Tom Ritchey or Keith Bontrager said... Cheap, light and strong...pick two.


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## midlife (10 Jul 2019)

I thought about this to see what the fuss was about 

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/335041/#comment14812396


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## Sharky (10 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> For the amount of use a folder gets with me, i couldn't justify spending over £1K and some of them are many thousands. So i bought a used Dahon and have been very happy with it.
> Although i saw this on a deal site today..... £199 seems a great price
> https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15903287/compass-fast-forward-folding-bike-15903287
> If i were still looking for a folder, i'd have been very tempted. Not bad weight at under 12kg and has Claris 8 speed.


That does look like value for money and we are in Canterbury on Monday, so will take a look.
Thanks for the tip


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## stoatsngroats (10 Jul 2019)

I can only state my thoughts, and I wouldn’t get very near to a top 5, let alone 10!
Our short tour to Paris last year involved trains, and times when bikes are not permitted, so looked at folding bikes for leisure cycle tours, probably based around car/train, rather than flying, and those I checked out were nowhere near as small folded, some, downright ugly, and spindly, with insecure closing when folded.

It’s definitely governed by what you need, but there is a small when folded, reliable, stylish, dare i say beautiful bike, that expensive, but durable.
I’m sure you can’t have desirable, quality, reliable and cheap... 3 maybe, but not all 4.
Whether I get the use I thought from it, who knows, but I’m happy, and look forward to cycling on my Brompton , as does Mrs SnG, who, until we met some years ago, had never considered cycling over the previous 30 odd years. She has 2 bikes, and is looking forward to using her Brompton in Europe soon! 
What a turnaround


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## Milkfloat (11 Jul 2019)

For your use case I would consider a decent bike rack instead.


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## Richard Fairhurst (11 Jul 2019)

12boy said:


> I had once been enamored of Bike Fridays, a handmade American bike with a cult following much like Bromptons. I found a shop that sold them and tried one out and I did not like it at all.



For what it's worth, I love my Bike Friday to bits. It's the do-anything bike - I ride it round town, I take it into London, I've taken it gravel-riding in New Zealand, touring in New York State and day-riding in the Black Forest... it copes fine with everything. Plus it goes into a suitcase or onto a train with no problems.

Folded up, it's nowhere near as compact as a Brompton. If I were commuting by bike+train every day I'd buy a Brompton, no question. But I just love having a transportable bike that can go (almost) anywhere. Yesterday I had a meeting in Worcester, so took my Bike Friday on the train, then got off three stops early on the way home and made my way back via a series of unexplored bridleways. Lovely half of Old Rosie in a wayside pub too


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## 12boy (12 Jul 2019)

I meant no disrespect for Bike Fridays, only it didn't work for me. This was merely an illustration of the idea that no matter how great a bike appears on paper (or the internet) how it suits any particular person is really up to the ride. I've always been fascinated by Moultons, too, but I would surely want a ride before buying one.


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## Kell (12 Jul 2019)

It is, as mentioned by others, entirely governed by necessity. 

There's no doubt that my full-size Dahon was better to ride than the Brompton, but I couldn't fit that in the back of my convertible mini. 

Also, some train companies will only accept bikes that 'double fold' - my train company was going to be one of those - so I tried to future-proof myself by going Brompton as it fitted all my requirements. 

Now I love it. But it wasn't my default choice.


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## TheDoctor (12 Jul 2019)

Drago said:


> Your needs and circumstances are likely more important than any notional 'quality'etc.


That! @Drago - Nail, Head, Hit.
Most decent folding bikes have their niche.
Airnimals are good *if* you want a pukka touring bike to go on a plane, and a lengthy fold/unfold process is acceptable.
Ritchey Break-Aways are good *if* you absolutely must have a proper road bike, and an hour to rebuild the bike is fine. Bromptons are good *if* it absolutely must fold very small, very quickly.
There is no 'best'.


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## Cycleops (12 Oct 2019)

Just bought a Tikit, a bit of a pain to fold and unfold but quite nice to ride. It has a Alfine 8 speed and discs which I've never seen on another Tikit. The idea is to take it on a train somewhere and cycle from there. I find the slow speed steering a bit twitchy and wondered if this can be cured with a longer stem. I'll leave it in UK.


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## Banjo (13 Oct 2019)

Smudge said:


> For the amount of use a folder gets with me, i couldn't justify spending over £1K and some of them are many thousands. So i bought a used Dahon and have been very happy with it.
> Although i saw this on a deal site today..... £199 seems a great price
> https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15903287/compass-fast-forward-folding-bike-15903287
> If i were still looking for a folder, i'd have been very tempted. Not bad weight at under 12kg and has Claris 8 speed.


I had a Compass brand single speed folder with a hub brake on the back. It served me well with occasional use for 20 plus years . Still in use one of my sons uses it now. PS price shown in the link is £299 ?


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## Kell (14 Oct 2019)

Cycleops said:


> Just bought a Tikit, a bit of a pain to fold and unfold but quite nice to ride. It has a Alfine 8 speed and discs which I've never seen on another Tikit. The idea is to take it on a train somewhere and cycle from there. I find the slow speed steering a bit twitchy and wondered if this can be cured with a longer stem. I'll leave it in UK.



I didn't know the name, so I looked it up and almost all the articles seem to mention how quick it is to fold. 

Is it the same Bike Friday Tikit that they're talking about?


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## Blue Hills (14 Oct 2019)

Cycleops said:


> Just bought a Tikit, a bit of a pain to fold and unfold but quite nice to ride. It has a Alfine 8 speed and discs which I've never seen on another Tikit. The idea is to take it on a train somewhere and cycle from there. I find the slow speed steering a bit twitchy and wondered if this can be cured with a longer stem. I'll leave it in UK.


Don't discs put a lot of strain on forks?
Is that a particular issue with a folder?


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## Cycleops (14 Oct 2019)

Kell said:


> I didn't know the name, so I looked it up and almost all the articles seem to mention how quick it is to fold.
> 
> Is it the same Bike Friday Tikit that they're talking about?





Blue Hills said:


> Don't discs put a lot of strain on forks?
> Is that a particular issue with a folder?


I'm sure a lot is to do with my unfamiliarity. To pop the seat post which comes first you just need to give it a sharp tap, stupid here was pulling! The rest went okay. Unfolding can be a bit fraught as the clamp that holds the steering post is just a C section that sometimes needs positioning and as you unfold the frame the clamp is pulled by a cable that runs the length of the frame and tensions it as it goes straight (you can see it in the pic), rather fiddly. I think later versions may have an arrangement similar to a Brompton. Apart from that it rides quite well and the Alfine 8 hub works well.
As I said I've never seen another Tikit with discs. The paint is plain black on them so I suspect this is an after market fitment but they work superbly. Hopefully the fork will be up to the job.





The Marathon Plus tyres are just about worn out so I'll be replacing them, maybe with some Kojaks unless anyone has a better recommendation.
It also has a Shimano hub dynamo which added to the Alfine hub makes it rather heavy but not significantly more than a Brompton I'd have thought.


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## Kell (14 Oct 2019)

I've got to be honest, for all the grief Marathon pluses get, I'd still favour them over anything else I've used for commuting.

I'm sure Kojaks ride better, but I'm much happier to accept slightly slower, heavier tyres in exchange for zero punctures in 4 years and 8,500 miles of commuting.

I've had two 'flats' (not punctures) in that time - one was because the front brake wasn't tight enough and moved forward under heavy braking and rubbed through the sidewall, and the other was just last week when the valve on my inner tube went.


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## icowden (14 Oct 2019)

As others have said - it depends what you want. That's why it's hard to compare.

Personally I think the Montague should be disqualified as a folder as you have to take the front wheel off. IF you are removing wheels, you can do that on any bike. Tern Joe is good for a full sized, but tern hinges need repairs roughly every couple of years. Brompton have a much better hinge design but the fold is slower than a Tern or Dahon...

Visit shops, try folding. Go for test drives. I tested about 5 different brands before settling on a Joe.


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## Tenkaykev (14 Oct 2019)

icowden said:


> As others have said - it depends what you want. That's why it's hard to compare.
> 
> Personally I think the Montague should be disqualified as a folder as you have to take the front wheel off. IF you are removing wheels, you can do that on any bike. Tern Joe is good for a full sized, but tern hinges need repairs roughly every couple of years. Brompton have a much better hinge design but the fold is slower than a Tern or Dahon...
> 
> Visit shops, try folding. Go for test drives. I tested about 5 different brands before settling on a Joe.



Having reached the grand age of 70 I'm no longer as strong or as agile as I once was. It usually takes me between 15 to 20 seconds to fold / unfold my Brompton.

Not as fast as this guy, but 5.19 seconds is the world record...


View: https://youtu.be/27F9WVj6lU4


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## MichaelW2 (14 Oct 2019)

Drago said:


> And what about full size folders, such as the Montague? The ride is a different league to the diddy wheelers, but then you won't slip them unobtrusively in your pocket when you get on the bus.
> 
> Your needs and circumstances are likely more important than any notional 'quality'etc.


My full size 26" Dahon Cadenza has been my commuter workhorse for over 10 years. It rarely gets folded and for an Al frame is quite heavy but I selected it for the hub gears, disk brakes and eccentric bottom bracket.
Montague tend to be specced with fairly low end components for the price.


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## Andy in Germany (20 Oct 2019)

I've been reading this with interest as it looks likely I'll have a job in November (Finally...), but it is a steep 200m downhill and medium sized town away. I can commute for a while on my regular bike but especially in winter the hill will have to be negotiated by bus.

A folding bike will get me to the last bus stop before the drop via a more direct and faster route than the bus manages, and if I can carry it on the bus I have a fifteen minute bus ride followed by a riding for about eight minutes through the town instead of waiting for a bus connection and trundling around the town centre.

Also, I have a three day week so I'll be looking for freelance work teaching English and woodwork in our local area, so being able to carry a bike on public transport and then cycle the last few kilometres would make me much more mobile.

Looking at posts thus far I either have to get a bike that folds very small for the bus or a bike with larger and more comfortable wheels for riding.

Hmm... Dither, dither.

As an aside, it looks like Brompton luggage racks will only take Brompton bags. Is this the case?

[Edited for typos and clarity]


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## chriscross1966 (20 Oct 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> I've been reading this with interest as it looks likely I'll have a job in November, but it is a 200m downhill and medium sized town away. I can commute for a while in my regular bike but especially in winter the hill will have to be negotiated by bus.
> 
> A folding bike will get me to the last bus stop before the drop via a more direct and faster route than the bus manages, and will mean riding for about eight minutes through the town instead of waiting for a bus connection and trundling around the town centre.
> 
> ...


Lots of aftermarket options for brompton fitting luggage


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## 12boy (20 Oct 2019)

Andy, you can buy the frame only which clips onto the block on the headtube. Then you can attach a bag you like. Or you can build a setup yourself, as I did with plywood and glue for a couple of bags. Ugly as sin but have proven durable. More of a concern may be your weather. While studded snow tires are available, deep snow and Bromptons may not be your best bet.


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## Tenkaykev (20 Oct 2019)

That's a bare Brompton frame attached to a Rixen and Kaul bag


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## Tenkaykev (20 Oct 2019)

The Rixen and Kaul Klikfix system works independently of the Brompton bag frame so you have the option of removing the bag and leaving the frame attached if you so wish.


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## Andy in Germany (21 Oct 2019)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not only looking at Bromptons, but they do seem to be the best for folding, which is an issue on a bus and the most durable long term.
I get the impression most people seem to use the Brompton front rack, not the rear. Is this because the front is more flexible for aftermarket bags / weight?


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## icowden (21 Oct 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> Having reached the grand age of 70 I'm no longer as strong or as agile as I once was. It usually takes me between 15 to 20 seconds to fold / unfold my Brompton.
> 
> Not as fast as this guy, but 5.19 seconds is the world record...
> 
> ...




Which isn't bad but... I can fold the Tern in less than 5 seconds. It's literally - open quick-release for the saddle & drop. Undo clip. Fold. 

The Brompton is the best for *small* folding. You won't find a bike that can fold up smaller. And they are definitely more durable than a Tern or Dahon which tend to need hinge repair every few years in my experience.


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## chriswoody (21 Oct 2019)

I've been commuting for four years now with my Tern and it's stood up really well to all the abuse with hardly any complaint. However, I only take it on the train, which is one of the double decker ones, with the entire lower deck of one carriage given over to bikes, so the size of the fold is not an issue. 

I have on occasion used the trams here and it is fine for that, however, the smaller size of a Brompton would be more suitable.

With regard to the hinge joint, I've had no problems with my hinges in all this time, however, I am quite light even in full winter clothing and work bag. I have a colleague who is really tall and stocky and with a pannier and clothing comes close to the weight limit of these bikes (100kg if memory serves?). He has gone through two hinges on two different Terns, so I would also caution against a Tern or Dahon if your combined weight is getting close to the limit of these frames.

I also use an Ortlieb messenger bag rather than a pannier bag and rack. It will comfortably take a small laptop and all my other work stuff. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I personally prefer it.


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## Kell (21 Oct 2019)

Andy in Germany said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not only looking at Bromptons, but they do seem to be the best for folding, which is an issue on a bus and the most durable long term.
> I get the impression most people seem to use the Brompton front rack, not the rear. Is this because the front is more flexible for aftermarket bags / weight?



The front is more practical when commuting as the release mechanism is quicker and easier. It’s a similar release switch to the one for the rear triangle. In some cases, you can fold the bike up with the bag still attached. I have done this, but found it awkward in practice


The rear rack is good but any bag attaching to it needs a lot more faffing about with to remove. I’ve seen people doing it on my train before.

I’d imagine that you can carry much heavier loads on the rear rack, but I don’t know that for certain.


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## 12boy (21 Oct 2019)

There are some advantages to the weight in front:
It improves the ride, making it less twitchy and possibly increasing front wheel traction.
With many you can access the bike without getting off.
There are obviously many, many bag setups possible, especially if you have the click on frame.
The center of gravity is very low.
Unless you hang a rear bag off the saddle/seat post rear bags can have heel strike. Having a heavy bag off the saddle can affect the handling, especially since these bikes put most of the rider's weight on the rear wheel.
A lot of front bags have pockets just right for water bottles and phones with ready access.
However the front bag, if large, can increase wind drag a lot. The shopper bag and a headwind can be interesting. I use a front bag for large or heavier loads and a small lightweight saddle bag for lightweight items like a tool roll, sweater or jacket, gloves etc. On the site "the path less pedaled" the authors attach a backpack to the saddle and a rack over the rear wheel. That, plus a large front bag,k gives for a huge amount of storage capacity.


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