# On the oche



## Pale Rider (22 Dec 2019)

Anyone been following the progress of Fallon Sherrock in the darts world championship?

One might have thought darts - and snooker - is a game in which women could compete on an equal footing with men, but it hasn't happened up to now.

Ms Sherrock has beaten two world ranking players and reckons she has a chance of winning the tournament.

I've long lost track of who is good at darts.

None of the players in this BBC report mean anything to me.

I suspect darts is trying to move on from the likes of Jocky Wilson and Eric Bristow.

Sky even has a woman commentator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/50879829


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## Smudge (22 Dec 2019)

Women.... in darts !!.... Next it'll be the end of drinking 10 pints and smoking 20 tabs during a game.
The world's gone mad.


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## Rocky (22 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> Women.... in darts !!.... Next it'll be the end of drinking 10 pints and smoking 20 tabs during a game.
> The world's gone mad.


My wife regularly drinks 10 pints and smokes 20 tabs during work.........and she’s a GP.


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## Smudge (22 Dec 2019)

Brompton Bruce said:


> My wife regularly drinks 10 pints and smokes 20 tabs during work.........and she’s a GP.



Glad to hear it.
Ciggies & drink keep you in the pink.


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## Pale Rider (22 Dec 2019)

It's mineral water only for the players, but from watching the Sky coverage it looks as if lager still plays a big part for the crowd.


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## Levo-Lon (22 Dec 2019)

Fair play to her, i do laugh when darters are called athletic 

When i played pool in the Premier league, the hardest games were against the ladies..


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## twentysix by twentyfive (22 Dec 2019)

Well from what I can see Fallon isn't properly qualified. No huge midriff. Thought that was compulsory....


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## Drago (22 Dec 2019)

Women have been competing as shot putters for years.


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## classic33 (22 Dec 2019)

In the picture in the link, where's the dartboard?


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## Supersuperleeds (22 Dec 2019)

The second fella she beat is a very good player, though he does have days when he can't hit a double to save his life. 

I don't think she has the quality to beat the very best men, but she is raising the profile of the sport for other women, which might mean that the womens game gets more prize money so more can afford to get involved and dedicate the time to get as good as the men.


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## numbnuts (22 Dec 2019)

Another nail in the "man" coffin


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## Levo-Lon (22 Dec 2019)

You'll get burned for that


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## newfhouse (22 Dec 2019)

numbnuts said:


> Another nail in the "man" coffin


All you need to do to regain your masculine pride is throw darts more accurately. How hard can it be?


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## Fab Foodie (22 Dec 2019)

numbnuts said:


> Another nail in the "man" coffin


Eh? What century are you living in?


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## Levo-Lon (22 Dec 2019)




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## Fab Foodie (22 Dec 2019)

Supersuperleeds said:


> The second fella she beat is a very good player, though he does have days when he can't hit a double to save his life.
> 
> I don't think she has the quality to beat the very best men, but she is raising the profile of the sport for other women, which might mean that the womens game gets more prize money so more can afford to get involved and dedicate the time to get as good as the men.


....and then hopefully we’ll just have one game where men and women compete on equal terms for equal prize money?


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## Supersuperleeds (22 Dec 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> ....and then hopefully we’ll just have one game where men and women compete on equal terms for equal prize money?



Hopefully.


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## Reynard (22 Dec 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> ....and then hopefully we’ll just have one game where men and women compete on equal terms for equal prize money?



Erm... Showjumping, three day eventing and dressage for starters...


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## Beebo (22 Dec 2019)

Reynard said:


> Erm... Showjumping, three day eventing and dressage for starters...


National hunt and flat racing all have successful female jockeys. 
In theory F1 is a unisex sport. 
But no women have broken into the top tier yet. 
It can’t be long. 
Ultra marathon sports already appear to benefit female athletes. Which is a good thing.


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## Jenkins (22 Dec 2019)

All motorsport is a unisex sport (if you ignore the 'W' series, that is). There's been recent female champions in the British GT championship - Jamie Chadwick in GT4 and Flick Haigh in GT3.


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## Reynard (22 Dec 2019)

Jenkins said:


> All motorsport is a unisex sport (if you ignore the 'W' series, that is). There's been recent female champions in the British GT championship - Jamie Chadwick in GT4 and Flick Haigh in GT3.



I grew up watching Michelle Mouton Louise Aitken-Walker and Fabrizia Pons (rallying), plus Paula Cook and Nettan Lindgren (single seaters & touring cars), and then later, when I was down on the fenceline with the cameras, Kelly-Jayne Wells was a pretty effective operator in a pickup truck, plus of course Susie Stoddart (now Wolf)


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## Accy cyclist (23 Dec 2019)

I can't see how we're supposed to be amazed by this. It's not hard to chuck a dart at a board,no matter what gender you are. Darts is a pub game,not a sport that requires strength and stamina.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Dec 2019)

Accy cyclist said:


> I can't see how we're supposed to be amazed by this. It's not hard to chuck a dart at a board,no matter what gender you are. Darts is a pub game,not a sport that requires strength and stamina.


Exactly...so why hasn't it happened until now?


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

numbnuts said:


> Another nail in the "man" coffin



Awww bubs. 

Could you clarify what the "man coffin" actually is though.. 

It's bringing up some 'interesting' images for me


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> Exactly...so why hasn't it happened until now?



Well here's a few possibilities. 

Women weren't interested enough to practice hard enough to get that good at chucking arrers. 

Or those who were interested were put off by the overall blokey atmos, disparaging comments from others, or very possibly genuinely not having enough time, confidence, or resources to practice more. 

As a woman (yes I know crazy stuff huh) I've often had folks suggest - either explicitly or otherwise - that what I'm putting my time and energy into, isn't quite appropriate for my gender.

But being an awkward cuss, I ignored them, and got on with it, however the undercurrent of
"This stuff isn't for you" was still very much there. 

I still hear the same from younger women entering occupations / leisure activities, which are non trad female. 

You still get dumb@rses on the internet suggesting stuff like 'go make me a sandwich' - threatened or what?? 

And the images, and advertising still reflect many biases. 

It's wearying having to resist all that invisible tide of negativity - esp when it's combined with our own self doubts when starting out - which are common enough to all humans of course. 

The more females seen doing all these things, the more that becomes perfectly normal, unremarkable even.


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## Accy cyclist (23 Dec 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> Exactly...so why hasn't it happened until now?


I'd say it's because men and women have only recently started to compete against each other.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Dec 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Well here's a few possibilities.
> 
> Women weren't interested enough to practice hard enough to get that good at chucking arrers.
> 
> ...


Thanks (it was a rhetorical question to Accy)!


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Fab Foodie said:


> Thanks (it was a rhetorical question to Accy)!




And you went and got a rhetorical answer from me. 

What a Christmas bonus !!!


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## Levo-Lon (23 Dec 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Well here's a few possibilities.
> 
> Women weren't interested enough to practice hard enough to get that good at chucking arrers.
> 
> ...




I always thought you were a bloke.. 
I'll treat you as a lady in future


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Levo-Lon said:


> I always thought you were a bloke..
> I'll treat you as a lady in future



You mean put me on ignore ??


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## Smokin Joe (23 Dec 2019)

Snooker has at least one female player knocking on the door at the top level. If she or another woman do break through it will inspire others to follow, just like the success of people like Bryony Frost on horse racing and our own Vicky P have brought a big increase in female participation in both sports.


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## Levo-Lon (23 Dec 2019)

mudsticks said:


> You mean put me on ignore ??




Indeed


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Snooker has at least one female player knocking on the door at the top level. If she or another woman do break through it will inspire others to follow, just like the success of people like Bryony Frost on horse racing and our own Vicky P have brought a big increase in female participation in both sports.




Which reminds me horsey type events.. Show jumping, cross country etc have always had men and women competing in an equal footing. 

Clearly most of the 'strength' comes from the horse. 

But there's no little athleticism /skill required by the rider too. 

I'm wondering if its because horsey sports generally have well off participants, with both genders perhapshaving a fair amount of money and chance to practice, that it shows that a lot of the time it's more about time and resources available, to compete on an equal footing*

(*hoofing)


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## Smokin Joe (23 Dec 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Which reminds me horsey type events.. Show jumping, cross country etc have always had men and women competing in an equal footing.
> 
> Clearly most of the 'strength' comes from the horse.
> 
> ...


Certainly in show jumping money is a huge factor, but most racing jockeys come from very ordinary backgrounds starting off as apprentices and working their way up.


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Certainly in show jumping money is a huge factor, but most racing jockeys come from very ordinary backgrounds starting off as apprentices and working their way up.



Yes indeed, they do, maybe horsey sports are just more progressive in this way, when they realised that gender had very little bearing on ability. 

Although being a jump jockey looks terrifying. 

I did a fair amount of horsing about in my youth, but that stuff looks well scarey.


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## Smokin Joe (23 Dec 2019)

mudsticks said:


> Yes indeed, they do, maybe horsey sports are just more progressive in this way, when they realised that gender had very little bearing on ability.
> 
> Although being a jump jockey looks terrifying.
> 
> I did a fair amount of horsing about in my youth, but that stuff looks well scarey.


Women do very well in jump racing relative to their numbers. Being of naturally lighter weight they don't have to starve themselves like the male riders do and because of this are less likely to suffer broken limbs when they do come off, poor diet apparently being a factor in brittle bones. Bryony frost has turned a few of my modest wagers into pleasing wins in the last few years.


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## Drago (23 Dec 2019)

It turns out Daughter #1 knows Fallon. Daughter owns a hair salon in MK where Fallon lives, and she is also a hairdesser by trade.


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## Beebo (23 Dec 2019)

Steve Davies, the snooker player, has always championed women’s snooker. He thinks the reason why women have never broken through is because men have the pure, dedicated, selfishness to practice 8 hours a day on a pointless folly to the detriment of everything and everyone. women just aren’t that selfish.
I suspect a woman player in the modern game would give the male pros of the 1980s a good game.


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## mudsticks (23 Dec 2019)

Beebo said:


> Steve Davies, the snooker player, has always championed women’s snooker. He thinks the reason why women have never broken through is because men have the pure, dedicated, selfishness to practice 8 hours a day on a pointless folly to the detriment of everything and everyone. women just aren’t that selfish.
> I suspect a woman player in the modern game would give the male pros of the 1980s a good game.



Yes this exactly, it was a point I made in another thread about guys just being better at 'ring fencing' their time. 

If you have someone prepared to look after your every bodily need - and those of your kids if you've had them - whilst you perfect the art of 'whatever it is' then chances are you'll get a darn sight better at it. 

Most women I know just don't have those kind of resources at their disposal. 

Or even if they do, they feel they first need to run around looking after everyone else too. 

Talking of which duty calls...


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## Beebo (31 Dec 2019)

It looks like the slow death of the BDO is almost complete. 
It has been second rate for 20 years and the PDC offers better players, better atmosphere and more tournaments. 
They decided to move their flagship tournament from Lakeside Country Club to the O2 this year and only 15% of tickets have been sold. Prize money has been cut, players and officials are deserting in droves. 
It’s a shame as the BDO championed grass roots darts for years, but I think they are finally doomed. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/50952382


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## Reynard (31 Dec 2019)

I think you're right.

They *didn't* do what the PDC - and snooker - have done.

The BDO is hidebound, overpoliticked, and has suffered from being under the thumb of one man for far too long. Olly Croft refused to move forward and modernise, and now that he's shuffled off the mortal coil, the whole thing is unravelling.


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## Cletus Van Damme (13 Oct 2020)

I love darts. It was a shame Price won the final yesterday. He doesn't seem like a bad guy off the oche. I just think all that screaming and stuff is gamesmanship, others do it like MVG, but not as bad. I prefer the guys that just get on with it like Anderson, Smith, Cross etc.


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