# Boris Johnson Loses The Plot



## ChrisKH (11 Mar 2009)

See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5883358.ece

Quite apart from the removal of road use rights from pedestrians, surely it makes no difference if you speed up pedestrians since the Highway Code says that in the event that a pedestrian is on a crossing, and the traffic light is green, you still have to give way? This is just going to increase accidents and lead to antagonism between pedestrians and other road users. 

Views?


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## Bollo (11 Mar 2009)

Can't say I'm surprised - remember Boris won the election pretty much on the back of the pro-car/anti-CC lobby. Heaven forbid suggest that vehicles cause traffic.

Bitter irony now follows - Remember, pedestrians don't pay road tax, so they shouldn't even be on the roads.


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## srw (11 Mar 2009)

No fully fit central London pedestrian takes the blindest bit of notice of the pedestrian green lights as they're already very biassed towards the cars. This will make approximately no difference to most of us - and a very significant amount of difference to the less able.

Way to go, bozzer!


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## dellzeqq (11 Mar 2009)

The man is an oaf. And that's putting it politely. He should be shot.

This is all about cutting car journey times on radial routes.


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## arallsopp (11 Mar 2009)

Wonder how far this proposal would have got if the countdown was given to cars on green...


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## Will1985 (11 Mar 2009)

I've read the article - totally stupid idea, but the Time's suggestion that cars could be moving when peds are still on the crossing is wrong. The flashing amber phase still means give way to any peds still crossing, so moving cars are technically breaking the law (172) unless the changes also reduce the yellow phase!

So much for trying to reduce the number of cars in the capital...


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## arallsopp (11 Mar 2009)

Will1985 said:


> The flashing amber phase still means give way to any peds still crossing, so moving cars are technically breaking the law (172) unless the changes also reduce the yellow phase!



Actually, the Highway Code says 

"GREEN means you may go on *if the way is clear [...and]* give way to pedestrians who are crossing"

ooops. Sorry. Bit major on the old font size there


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## Will1985 (11 Mar 2009)

Oops! I've got the previous version of the HC hence the wrong number. I didn't read down another couple of rules.


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## jonesy (11 Mar 2009)

The whole proposal is based on the ludicrously naive idea that there is lots of hidden spare road capacity available for cars that has until now somehow escaped the notice of generations of traffic engineers... it is truly ridiculous; and completely contradicts Boris's stated policy to support walking. TfL has been spending loads of money reviewing pedestrian provision in the capital and identifying where crossings etc need to be improved; including reducing waiting time at pedestrian crossings. Now another bit of TfL will be going round reversing these improvements, for benefits that few drivers will notice but at a price that will cause very real difficulties for the most vulnerable pedestrians.


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## zimzum42 (12 Mar 2009)

We have these in Singapore, and they work very well, and are useful on big road crossings. If there are only a few seconds left I do stop and wait for the next set cos I don't want to get trapped and have to sprint to get out of the way, and it removes any uncertainty of how long you have to get accross. They could very well be a great help to the elderly too.

I think we should have them for the traffic too like they do in many parts of Asia, it stops people revving their cars unnecessarily and creeping forward thinking they are about to change.

Boris is great, so much better than that miserable bastard Ken!


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## srw (12 Mar 2009)

Errmmm... Zimmers? Have you ever walked in London? Thought not.


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## zimzum42 (12 Mar 2009)

All the time actually, I was born there, have lived there for years, and I still live there when I'm not in Singapore, right on the Marylebone road, which is quite busy. The junction at Baker Street is a difficult one to cross going north to south on the west side of the junction, it could benefit from something like this.

I'm OK, I jaywalk most of the time, quite enjoy it. But there are people who would benefit from this.

Thanks for your condescension though, it's appreciated. Perhaps you could remove the cock from your arse next time?


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## dellzeqq (12 Mar 2009)

We all know that cars creep forward as soon as they have the slightest encouragement - and that includes the 'green man' going off, even though the light is still red. 

Walking in the city shouldn't be the preserve of the quick, or the young, or even the quick-witted. You should be able to take your time, be old and confused, or not too rapid on your feet.

My preference would be for pedestrians to have right of way on all streets in zones 1 and 2. Which would, by the by, provide a boost for the local economy.


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## zimzum42 (12 Mar 2009)

I don't see why private vehicles shouldn't largely be barred from much of the current CC zone, save for disablists and residents


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## dellzeqq (12 Mar 2009)

Let's not forget - this is specifically about reducing trip times for motorists driving in from zones 4, 5 and 6. Zones 1 and 2 bear the burden of the commuter who drives seven to thirty miles to work. Now, these people are muppets. They can take the train.

Oh - and you heard this here first. Johnson is going to claim that he has speeded up traffic. Actually he hasn't. Congestion has pretty much zero'd in Zone 1, because the construction industry traffic (and more besides) has pretty much disappeared. The road from Victoria to HPC was empty on Tuesday - as recently as last November it was rammed all day.


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## Lurker (12 Mar 2009)

zimzum42 said:


> .... [1] They could very well be a great help to the elderly too.
> 
> I think we should have them for [2] the traffic too like they do in many parts of Asia....
> 
> ...



[1]  How does standing for longer waiting for the lights to change, or knowing how much time is remaining to cross, help the elderly?

[2] Pedestrians are traffic

[3] No such thing as 'jaywalking' in UK laws

[4] That's the whole point - the question is /which/ people benefit, and which people lose....


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## Origamist (12 Mar 2009)

It makes a mockery of TFL's VIP (Very Important Pedestrian) Days. For the remaining 364 days peds are treated like harijans.


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## thomas (13 Mar 2009)

I wish they put them in Norwich city centre...and sped up all the lights on the roundabouts on the outskirts - you have to wait for ages. The city centre ones are terrible too, you can never tell if the ped lights are red for a reason (they generally are) but so many jump them seeing no traffic and nearly get hit. It also takes forever to get through the town centre on a bike because of the awful rotation they use.

Speed up Peds in Norwich , I'm happy running across the road


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## skwerl (18 Mar 2009)

I saw this comepletely the other way round. If the counters are like other coutries they also tell you how long you have to wait for the next green man. That should hopefully reduce the temptation for peds to cross without waiting


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## jonesy (18 Mar 2009)

skwerl said:


> I saw this comepletely the other way round. If the counters are like other coutries they also tell you how long you have to wait for the next green man. That should hopefully reduce the temptation for peds to cross without waiting



Accompanied by an increased red phase they will tell you that you've got a long wait ahead and you might as well dash across if you get a gap!


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## snorri (18 Mar 2009)

> In Eire when you press a button you get a count-down to the green man. This sounds like a whole better idea.


and in Glasgow.


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## tdr1nka (8 Apr 2009)

User1314 said:


> Boris is open for questions....
> 
> http://www.london.gov.uk/stateoflondon/




I got the email for this too and deliberated about going.
IMO this is just a PR exercise along with all 'consultations', designed to make 
the public feel like they have input in decision making when at the end of the day, those with the power will invariably follow their original plans irrespective of public feelings. 

Boris has already reneged on enough promises to London for him to know what people wanted.


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