# Sore quads and how to help?



## grobinson09 (12 Jun 2015)

So I am relatively new to cycling.
I started triathlon 18 months ago and completely fell in love with it, however, the cycling element was my least favourite. Knowing it is the longest stint of the event, and the area where a lot of time can be both gained and lost I realised I needed to change this. So this year's strategy is to cycle cycle cycle and fall in love with it and hopefully improve my tri times.
However, I am also driven by huge challenges, so having never cycled more than 15 miles before, back in September I decided I wanted to cycle John O'Groats to Lands End this August (2015) - stupid, maybe. But I have had all year to train and get use to my bike. There is no denying I have improved. But I still have a lot of work to do. My question, and why I am posting is that when I cycle 50+ miles i get a really deep set pain in both my quads. It feels like a build up of lactic acid that just doesnt go away but gets worse and deeper and pretty horrible. Getting off my bike, sitting, stretching, moving, hydrating, eating, fuelling, nothing helps.
I was wondering if any one else has experienced this? Or if any one has any suggestions on how to get rid of this problem.
I have had my bike properly fitted so I know it isn't that, and I hydrate well on rides and eat as well. Potentially I could eat more during my rides...but I can't imagine that would cause such pain in my quads?
My ride in August is averaging 70-80 miles a day for 12 days so I can't afford for this to happen... I have been training sensibly, doing 2-3 30 miles a week, and every two weeks a bigger ride of 60-70 miles, but come 50 miles the pain sets in. I have a pretty high pain threshold but it literally brings me to tears.
Please help....


----------



## windyrider (12 Jun 2015)

My guess would be seat height, check that for a starter for 10 and see if raising the saddle by small increments makes a difference.


----------



## vickster (12 Jun 2015)

Do you stretch and foam roll between rides? Have you seen physio or a doctor? If convinced it's not the bike fit


----------



## screenman (12 Jun 2015)

Take 3mph off of your average and try it at that speed. Have a look at the Mathetone method, it works well.


----------



## Glow worm (12 Jun 2015)

I get sore quads every three or four months that leave me grounded for up to two weeks at a time. It might be very different from your condition but this thread sums up pretty much what I get and offers some ideas though sadly no diagnosis: 

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=16610


----------



## Travs (14 Jun 2015)

In polarised training, you train at high output to create lactate, then drop back to low power to clear it; these are usually for about 10 minutes at a time, so dropping back in speed (as a result of lower power output) may help the body to clear it while on the move.


----------



## jay clock (14 Jun 2015)

saddle height would be my starting point


----------



## Dayvo (16 Jun 2015)

Try resting after hard sessions.

What's your cadence like? Try spinning (quick and easy) more and not grinding (hard and slow).


----------



## Glow worm (23 Apr 2016)

Sorry to bump an old thread but after almost 20 years I think I'm finally on to what causes my quad and glute pain. Hopefully anyone suffering the same may find this helps.

In short- it is the failure of the body to regulate glycogen supply to the muscles. On days when I ride, no problem. The glycogen gets burned by my muscles. On rest days though, 'normal' people stop producing glycogen. However my body carries on producing it, overloading the cells and on attempting excercise again, they tear, causing terrible pain. It manifests itself when I have two or more rest days. 

So it looks as though I need to ride every day to keep it at bay (and keep carb intake down on rest days). A thorough summary is below, written by a fellow sufferer on the site I linked to above. This explains why I always seem to get the pain while on holiday and away from the bike.

*Hi all
I've had a number of episodes of this issue and have been working with my coach (Phd with focus on sports science and genetics) and some sports doctors, and have come up with a hypothesis as to what is going on:

Onset of the condition in my case:
- relatively high training / racing load
- 3-4 days of inactive rest
- normal / increased carb and sugar intake during the training load, and importantly no moderation /and often an increase in carb and sugar intake immediately during the rest period (ie pigging out a bit post a stage race / big block, or at least not reducing intake during this period)

Manifestation
- pain as described above, in quads, calves, hammies, abductors, glutes. 
- importantly the fact that during an episode the pain moves around (anterior, posterior, right leg, left leg) indicates that this is not a nerve/skeletal issue
- significantly increased CK levels indicating some for or myopathy 
- CRP levels normal indicating that it isn't an autoimmune issue*

*Hypothesis
- the issue is an enzyme related issue in the muscles specifically related to the production of glycogen synthase.
- glycogen synthase is the enzyme which is responsible for converting glucose into glycogen for storage in muscle cells.
- in a "normal" person, during high load, levels of glycogen synthase increases in order to store fuel to meet the increased requirement for energy for the body. When exercise load decreases, the body automatically regulates the level of this enzyme as the body's need for stored glycogen reduces. 
- the theory that we are working with is that in my case, the body is not regulating this enzyme level, and so the body is continuing to convert glucose into glycogen and packing it into the muscle cells. 
- the problem is twofold in that firstly exercise has stopped and so the glycogen is not being used (but continues to be stored) and sugar and carb intake has not reduced (and often increased) so there is excess in the body and it is being stored.
- the theory is that the muscle cells get overloaded with glycogen and when exercise is introduced, the cells literally tear as a result of being overloaded. 
- this accounts for the pain felt, as well as the increased CK levels.
- the hypothesis is that this is a genetic issue and there isn't a "cure" as such

Prevention and treatment
- active rest as opposed to inactive rest has been effective in preventing onset (ie. 90 minute low intensity sessions with not more than a day of inactive periods).
- significant reduction of carb and sugar intake as the rest period starts
- during the most recent episode I went into a LCHF (virtually carb free) diet and within 2 days had no more pain
- during the episodes, multiple, short (10-20min) sessions until onset of pain, with aim of stimulating metabolism and effectively burning off glycogen
- once pain had subsided, introduced low intensity IMTG rides for the first few sessions. 
- use of ibuprofen to assist with inflammation in Muscles and for pain during the episode
- increase water intake to assist kidneys with CK load

As I said, this is a theory that the guys i am working with have come up with and it seems to make sense and be working for me. I'm sharing it with you simply because I know the frustration and the pain associated. If (and hopefully we don't have another episode given our prevention strategy) we have another episode, we will need to do a muscle biopsy to test the theory - obviously invasive so would prefer to avoid!! 

Once again, this is a theory - hopefully it helps!!*


----------



## Prometheus (23 Apr 2016)

*Hi you have not told us what position you use.
Time trial or normal road
To hold time trial position for 50 miles you need a lot of training *

*This may help!*

*https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=time+trial+position+setup&biw=1440&bih=660&tbm=isch&imgil=NZyXLo5IYUtMsM%253A%253BlbTnAOR5Zf3yMM%253Bhttp*

*http://fitwerx.com/reducing-low-back-and-hamstring-injury-through-proper-aero-postioning/*


----------



## adamangler (27 Apr 2016)

Its quite simple to me, do the work then have adequate rest to recover and eventually your body will adapt to what you are doing and you wont have sore quads anymore.

If it was a bad back or dodgy knee you were complaining of it would be different and a postural thing. But sore quads is muscular, muscles break down and repair.

If i ride and then dont rest and ride hard again my legs will get sore, if i ride again they will get worse to the point of not being able to stand up.
Ive found that my legs need to stop hurting before i exercise again or i will simply compound the pain.

Whatever you are doing is placing a demand on your body and it need to recover.

Recovery is the key component in improving muscular endurance and rest is when repair occurs and muscle gets stronger.

If when you hit around 50 miles the pain sets in thats normal, its lactate build up, you will start to cramp etc, ive done this, it just means youve dont too much, build up to it steady with adeuate fuelling and recovery and the point at which this occurs will get further and further, you cant expect to go from 15 to 50 miles and no to feel anything.


----------



## MrPie (2 May 2016)

[QUOTE 3745647, member: 9609"]you need to get into foam rollers - painful at first but you learn to love it - you have to break up those crunchy grisly painful spots
exciting I know, butt concentrate on the technique and the foam roller...[/QUOTE]

Reiver, you owe me a new I pad and bed linen. Spat out my May Day tea in bed when she mention 'sausage' and 'sheath' while she made those hand movements. Oh Lordy!


----------



## Bunker (24 May 2016)

+1 for foam rollers. Especially Rumble Rollers. Hurt like hell when you use them but strangely addictive.


----------

