# The Penny Farthing



## JohnRedcoRn (5 Aug 2009)

Noticed one of these at a vintage rally at the weekend and I thought to myself...

To ride one of these whilst smoking a pipe, dressed in your sunday best and smoking a pipe, maintaining a dignified gentlemanly posture and all the while being ever alert to the perils of street urchin devilment ?

- that was some skill those olden days gentleman cyclists mustve had. Hats off to them


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

JohnRedcoRn said:


> Noticed one of these at a vintage rally at the weekend and I thought to myself...
> 
> To ride one of these whilst smoking a pipe, dressed in your sunday best and smoking a pipe, maintaining a dignified gentlemanly posture and all the while being ever alert to the perils of street urchin devilment ?
> 
> - that was some skill those olden days gentleman cyclists mustve had. Hats off to them



Some of us still do


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## GrumpyGregry (5 Aug 2009)

Hilldodger said:


> Some of us still do



Serious not winding you up question. Why? What's the attraction, the usp....


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

They are THE most exhilarating machine to ride and incredibly fast, too


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## tyred (5 Aug 2009)

You can ignore the debates on chain lubrication as well


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## hubgearfreak (5 Aug 2009)

Hilldodger said:


> Some of us still do



pleased to hear it, sadly, pipe smoking seems to be less and less frequent


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## JohnRedcoRn (5 Aug 2009)

how exactly do you get on them ?
come to think of it, once your on, how do you STAY on? how do you stop and start again? and i dont even want to think about climbing.
I dare say they may have been of a time when a gent would merely ride a short distance around town on the flat, no traffic lights etc, probably just to show off and look daper - you know, just 'being a gentleman' in the days when wives looked after the kids and did the housework and a chap could enjoy his leisure time after a hard weeks work


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## tyred (5 Aug 2009)

I would say climbing wouldn't be too much of a problem. The gear ratio is in the region of 50 - 60 inches which is low by SS standards and there will be no transmission loss. I would be more concerned about going down a steep hill.

I knew an old man who spent a lifetime collecting old oddities and he was still able to ride the penny he had on his 85th birthday.


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## chris667 (5 Aug 2009)

JohnRedcoRn said:


> To ride one of these whilst smoking a pipe, dressed in your sunday best and smoking a pipe, maintaining a dignified gentlemanly posture and all the while being ever alert to the perils of street urchin devilment ?


Smoking two pipes?


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

JohnRedcoRn said:


> how exactly do you get on them ?
> come to think of it, once your on, how do you STAY on? how do you stop and start again? and i dont even want to think about climbing.
> I dare say they may have been of a time when a gent would merely ride a short distance around town on the flat, no traffic lights etc, probably just to show off and look daper - you know, just 'being a gentleman' in the days when wives looked after the kids and did the housework and a chap could enjoy his leisure time after a hard weeks work



They were racing bikes in there day and very fast ones at that - up to 40mph.

And many people rode long distance on them - the first LeJog was on a Penny in IIRC 1882.

I've done Leicester - York in two days and am just thinking of riding Calais - Toulouse next year for a bet. And to see a beautiful French lady friend

Riding across London is fine if a little exciting at times.


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## tyred (5 Aug 2009)

Thomas Stephens rode one around the world.


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

_The gear ratio is in the region of 50 - 60 inches_

The wheel diameter on my smaller Penny is 52 inches with a circumference of 162 inches


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> Thomas Stephens rode one around the world.



And so did Joff.


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## Owch (5 Aug 2009)

Some years ago (late 80s?) there was a 'high bicycle race' as part of a cycling festival in Market Harborough - terrifying! If memory serves me right a certain Mr Obree was the winner.


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## tdr1nka (5 Aug 2009)

I can't see the pic.?


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

Owch said:


> Some years ago (late 80s?) there was a 'high bicycle race' as part of a cycling festival in Market Harborough - terrifying! If memory serves me right a certain Mr Obree was the winner.



We had one in Leicester in 03


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## tdr1nka (5 Aug 2009)

Pennies from heaven.


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## CharlieB (5 Aug 2009)

Always wanted to have a go!
Does anyone know whether/where you can rent one?
Buy one?


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## jeltz (5 Aug 2009)

OK maybe I'm being dim here but how to you stay upright when stopped? I meant you can't put a foot down can you?


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## Hilldodger (5 Aug 2009)

You either don't stop, get off or do a track stand


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## CharlieB (5 Aug 2009)

Sorry, how do you do a track stand *and* smoke two pipes?


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## tyred (6 Aug 2009)

I presume if you were riding in traffic, you could put a foot down on the roof of a convenient car?


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## simon_brooke (6 Aug 2009)

Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal... Do you ever have police questioning the legality of it?

Where do you get tyres? Is there a cottage industry of penny-farthing-tyre-makers out there somewhere?

What are the parameters for the safe descent of hills - i.e. what's the longest, steepest downhill you'd consider tackling on the machine?

Are all the parts necessarily custom made, or are you able to use some conventional bike parts (e.g. rear wheel, headset?)

What's the technique for an emergency dismount, and how easy is it to do in practice?


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## Maizie (6 Aug 2009)

CharlieB said:


> Does anyone know whether/where you can rent one?
> Buy one?



http://www.theoldbicycleshowroom.co.uk/ are out of stock at the moment but you can look on their sold page to see what they have had!

You can get some antique replicas here... http://www.hiwheel.com/

You can buy some 'modern equivalents' but they don't look so much fun to me (and nowhere near tall enough...)
http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/product/112693.html
http://www.cycleking.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=353&k=13

I don't think I'd commute to work on (real, not modern equivalent) one, but I'd like to have a try just to see how quickly I fall off.http://www.theoldbicycleshowroom.co.uk/c1884-52-penny-farthing-bicycle-891-p.asp


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## Theseus (6 Aug 2009)

simon_brooke said:


> Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal... Do you ever have police questioning the legality of it?



The one I saw on the Embra to StAndrews ride last year had a brake on the front wheel, although it didn't look particularly effective. As they are fixed, the legs count as the second brake.


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## Arch (6 Aug 2009)

simon_brooke said:


> Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal...



I think some do have a spoon brake on the front wheel, although it's actually pretty ineffective (which is perhaps a good thing...)



> What's the technique for an emergency dismount, and how easy is it to do in practice?



Everyone I've seen do it, makes it look very easy, just a leg over and jump off to one side, or backwards. I've never tried it myself, I'm no good at anything involving jumping or not being able to get my feet down to the floor.

There was an invention, back when the Ordinary was the thing, of a dismountable handlebar, which was supposed to detach in the event of a sudden stop, allowing the rider to spring off forwards, without getting tangled in the bars. I'm not sure if it ever actually made it into use....

The other technique for being stationary is to hang onto a bit of street signage.

There's some penny farthing, and other tallbike action seen here.... (soundtrack was Willie Nelson, On the Road again...)


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWoogHFglI&feature=channel_page


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## tyred (6 Aug 2009)

It's definitely something I'd like to try at some point. I'm sure practice (and a few falls!) would make perfect, just like most things in life.


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## exchangeandmart (6 Aug 2009)

My friend did a sponsored cycle around her village on a penny farthing, I'm still in awe of anyone who can actually master it. I can see it being quite dangerous if you lost control of it, surely people tend to ride them for special occasions, not as an everyday bike?


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## Arch (6 Aug 2009)

exchangeandmart said:


> My friend did a sponsored cycle around her village on a penny farthing, I'm still in awe of anyone who can actually master it. I can see it being quite dangerous if you lost control of it, surely people tend to ride them for special occasions, not as an everyday bike?



Anything is dangerous, if you lose control of it. An eggwhisk, for example...

I gather (again, I've never done it, but know plenty who have) that the hardest bit is getting on and off, and that's just a knack to master. Once you are going, they are very stable. The worst peril is something jamming the front wheel, or losing your pedals on a downhill and having no way of stopping - just the normal issues with fixed wheel.

I knew (know? is he still with us? Lionel?) an old chap who used to bring his to roadshows for us, and if it was within London would ride to the show, or occasionally, take it on the tube. Once you have the knack, it's just a case of thinking ahead more. Remember, for a while, that was all there was and people used them just as we use safeties today...

Roger just makes it look easy...


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## tyred (6 Aug 2009)

Of course, once you master it, then you need to start doing it while smoking a pipe.


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## exchangeandmart (6 Aug 2009)

Arch said:


> I knew (know? is he still with us? Lionel?) an old chap who used to bring his to roadshows for us, and if it was within London would ride to the show, or occasionally, take it on the tube.



I'd have loved to have bumped into him while he was taking it on the tube, it's not quite the fold-up bikes people now carry around! Hmmm after all this discussion I'd love to try it, does anyone know where I could try it? Anyone got a spare one lying around?


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## Arch (6 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> Of course, once you master it, then you need to start doing it while smoking a pipe.



To be really hard core, it has to be a hookah...


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## Crash (7 Aug 2009)

Got to take my hat (top hat of course ) of to anyone who rides one. My brother in law recently restored one for someone and despite lots of coaxing he couldn't get me to climb on the thing it was a monster


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## Baggy (7 Aug 2009)

Andygates has a replica, but it needs a little bit more fettling before it's going to be safe to ride. Charlotte, who is registered here but doesn't post here much, has a replica, which she completed the Dun Run on this year - 120 miles in 15 hours 

There's a thread on yACF about her penny here http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14230.345


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## Hilldodger (8 Aug 2009)

simon_brooke said:


> Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal... Do you ever have police questioning the legality of it?
> 
> Where do you get tyres? Is there a cottage industry of penny-farthing-tyre-makers out there somewhere?
> 
> ...



a


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## simon_brooke (9 Aug 2009)

Hilldodger, what's the Q (or OLD) on yours? Charlottes' (and Joff's) look pretty wide...

Clearly there must be a bearing in each fork leg, and clearly if these don't align very precisely you'll get at best accelerated bearing wear. Is this a problem? Presumably the fork blades have to be pretty stiff anyway...

Is the hub and axle turned out of a single billet, or is it built up out of parts?

Yes, _of course_ I'm thinking about a carbon fibre penny. Proper UCI 3-to-1-aspect-ratio aero sections, too. If you're gonna do steam punk, you gotta do it _right_...


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## MajorMantra (9 Aug 2009)

Does no one use any form of foot retention on p-fars? From riding fixed I would have thought it was desirable, though I suppose it would pose problems for dismounting.

Matthew


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## byegad (25 Aug 2009)

Hilldodger said:


> _The gear ratio is in the region of 50 - 60 inches_
> 
> The wheel diameter on my smaller Penny is 52 inches with a circumference of 162 inches



If it's exactly 52 the circumference will be 163.4 to the nearest 1/10th of an inch.


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## Hilldodger (26 Aug 2009)

Obviously the tyre has worn down a bit


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## Zipperhead (27 Aug 2009)

exchangeandmart said:


> I'd have loved to have bumped into him while he was taking it on the tube, it's not quite the fold-up bikes people now carry around! Hmmm after all this discussion I'd love to try it, does anyone know where I could try it? Anyone got a spare one lying around?



Here's Charlotte taking hers on the District Line on evening:


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## RyanW (22 Sep 2009)

I bet she got a few funny looks, I cant imagine carrying that up the stairs at russel sq


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## Yellow Fang (7 Oct 2009)

Well, considering she dyed her hair red, and the last time she posted on here was to tell us she'd been cycling around with no clothes on, I doubt she worries about funny looks.


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## Greenbank (11 Oct 2009)

simon_brooke said:


> Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal... Do you ever have police questioning the legality of it?



No, Ordinaries/Penny-Farthings don't need any brakes at all.

From: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4073

"
I've already noted that fixed wheel counts as a brake. Taking that a stage further: if one wheel is not only incapable of rotating independently of the pedals, but the pedals are fixed directly to it without any intervening chain or gears, the cycle does not have to be equipped with any other braking system at all. This is obviously designed to allow various antique machines such as penny-farthings to be exercised on the highway without adding incongruous modern accessories!
"


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## The ORDINARY Man (26 Aug 2010)

CharlieB said:


> Sorry, how do you do a track stand *and* smoke two pipes?


Hi Charlie . . being an avid enthusiast for the High wheel, to give it another name . . track stands, with or without a pipe or two are now banned down under at the Australian P/F Championships due to several of the competitors in the penny farthing SLOW race being able to just sit there indefinitley, and I'm not joking. The judges now implement the rule that the wheel must keep turning.
Doug Pinkerton, ex-UK Ordinary Champion was able to sit stationary for some time . . a sight to behold.
In answering your other question . . be that it was last year . . check out the website :- www.mesicek.cz
Mine is the 50" beige beauty in the colour section. Price for a standard machine are approx 2200euro.


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## The ORDINARY Man (26 Aug 2010)

simon_brooke said:


> Seriously, presumably you'd technically need to stick a brake on the back wheel (even though it would do very little good) in order to be street legal? Obviously a brake on the front wheel would be pretty lethal... Do you ever have police questioning the legality of it?
> 
> Where do you get tyres? Is there a cottage industry of penny-farthing-tyre-makers out there somewhere?
> 
> ...


Hi Simon . . little late answering but I have only just joined and have been reading the P/F items .... Legality: a spoon brake slows the machine down slightly actioned on the front wheel, so together with fixed drive it is street legal. I have owned and ridden an 1874 P/F with a rear brake and would have to agree wih you that it was more effective than the current front spoon brake.
Tyres are readily available both for the UK type machine and the new aluminium velocity rims.
Rule when approaching the descent of a hill is if you cannot see the bottom don't ride down . . get off and walk. Victorian times it was common practice to place your legs over the handlebars in case you came to grief and thenyou were able to jump clear . . OUCH !!
Modern day riders of these wonderful but dangerous machines when descending have been known to stand on the mounting peg whilst holding the handlebars, apply the spoon brake and at the same time place there shoe sole on the rear wheel . . don't know how long the sole lasted ?
Most parts are available from certain persons in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Cezch Rep, U.S.A. should you be inclined to make your own.
Cheers . . The Ordinary Man


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## Hilldodger (26 Aug 2010)

The ORDINARY Man said:


> Hi Simon . . little late answering but I have only just joined and have been reading the P/F items .... Legality: a spoon brake slows the machine down slightly actioned on the front wheel, so together with fixed drive it is street legal. I have owned and ridden an 1874 P/F with a rear brake and would have to agree wih you that it was more effective than the current front spoon brake.
> Tyres are readily available both for the UK type machine and the new aluminium velocity rims.
> Rule when approaching the descent of a hill is if you cannot see the bottom don't ride down . . get off and walk. Victorian times it was common practice to place your legs over the handlebars in case you came to grief and thenyou were able to jump clear . . OUCH !!
> Modern day riders of these wonderful but dangerous machines when descending have been known to stand on the mounting peg whilst holding the handlebars, apply the spoon brake and at the same time place there shoe sole on the rear wheel . . don't know how long the sole lasted ?
> ...



Are you coming to the Pumper on Sunday? As one of the Sky Ride Event Managers I doubt I'll have time to ride my Penny much but I DO intend to get one lap in.

Although, after last year, I'm not riding over Belgrave Flyover again, going down the other side with lots of other people wandering all over the place wasn't much fun!


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## The ORDINARY Man (26 Aug 2010)

Hilldodger said:


> Are you coming to the Pumper on Sunday? As one of the Sky Ride Event Managers I doubt I'll have time to ride my Penny much but I DO intend to get one lap in.
> 
> Although, after last year, I'm not riding over Belgrave Flyover again, going down the other side with lots of other people wandering all over the place wasn't much fun!


JK and myself intend to ride the route and will call in at the Pumper . . should be on the way around 10:00 equipt with machine gun and loudspeaker . . ha ha !! 
Have ridden the Mesicek over thirty times since March plus other ancient machines on other occasions as well.
C U Sunday


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## The ORDINARY Man (29 Nov 2011)

I'm still riding the High Wheel approaching Seventy Two years of age and hate to consider that one day i will not be able. My first ever ride was on a 48" machine in 1976.
The machine most ridden currently is my 50" Mesicek which I have used at least fifty times this year for rides of five to thirty miles, including two laps of the Leicester Sky Ride up and down the Belgrave Road Fly-Over.
The Ordinary (P/F) in my profile picture is a 1886 Parr 52" made in Leicester.
Keep the Big Wheel turning and might see you at Next years 'Pennies in the Park' Event ~ check out the website for details, which will include a practice at a Penny Stack. The Guinness World Record is currently One Hundred & Thirty One riders and P/F's free standing achieved in Leicester in 2003 . . about time we lengthen the line !!!!!!
Feel free to contact me anytime re: P/F ( Ordinary ) interest on :- ahcpick@aol.com
Enter " *P/F Interest "* as the subject on your E-mail please.


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## ufkacbln (29 Nov 2011)

The chain looks slack is missing !


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## TheDoctor (29 Nov 2011)

I do sometimes wonder how many of Hilldoggers gigs I would have to work at to get a Penny.
I then ponder how I would explain a rather tall N+1 in the BikeCave...


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