# Brighton Cyclist Down



## dragon72 (26 Jul 2011)

I was out for a run along Brighton seafront today when, arriving at the point where Madeira Drive meets Duke's mound down at beach level, the police had cordoned the junction off. 
In the middle of the junction was a white road bike (I didn't get the make) surrounded by what looked like the cyclist's bag and personal belongings. Right next to the bike was a big blood stain and a bloodied t-shirt. It looked pretty devastating. No sign of the rider or an ambulance, I assume I got there after it had been and gone. The scene of crime cops were taking photos of the scene. 
I really hope the rider's okay, although I doubt he/she is given what I saw.


----------



## gaz (26 Jul 2011)

Terrible to hear, I hope the cyclist involved pulls through!


----------



## dragon72 (26 Jul 2011)

Hit by a milk float at 8.20am this morning. Serious head injuries meant the rider was taken to the Neuro Unit at Haywards Heath. Condition life-threatening, according to Brighton&Hove News.
The driver of the milk float has been arrested under suspicion of dangerous driving.

Simply dreadful.


----------



## JonnyBlade (26 Jul 2011)

dragon72 said:


> I was out for a run along Brighton seafront today when, arriving at the point where Madeira Drive meets Duke's mound down at beach level, the police had cordoned the junction off.
> In the middle of the junction was a white road bike (I didn't get the make) surrounded by what looked like the cyclist's bag and personal belongings. Right next to the bike was a big blood stain and a bloodied t-shirt. It looked pretty devastating. No sign of the rider or an ambulance, I assume I got there after it had been and gone. The scene of crime cops were taking photos of the scene.
> I really hope the rider's okay, although I doubt he/she is given what I saw.



Oh no not another one!!! I hope he/she is ok


----------



## 2Loose (26 Jul 2011)

Crossing fingers that things aren't as bad as they first seem.


----------



## Simba (26 Jul 2011)

Not being awful but how do you get hit by a milk float? I can walk faster than they go.

On topic, hope the cyclist is ok.


----------



## fossyant (26 Jul 2011)

Simba said:


> Not being awful but how do you get hit by a milk float? I can walk faster than they go.
> 
> On topic, hope the cyclist is ok.



Many are flat bed transit vans these days !


----------



## The_East_Stand_View (26 Jul 2011)

Hope they are ok.

I regularly see road and cycle path commuters not wearing helmets where I cycle. I feel like shouting to them please wear a helmet to protect yourself.


----------



## gaz (26 Jul 2011)

The_East_Stand_View said:


> I regularly see road and cycle path commuters not wearing helmets where I cycle. I feel like shouting to them please wear a helmet to protect yourself.



There is a sub form for that


----------



## Tynan (26 Jul 2011)

seems a relevant post if it's serious head injuries

I'd say start a book but we may never find out whether they were you know what...


----------



## e-rider (26 Jul 2011)

not looking good for him. some milk floats have diesel engines, but it sounds like this one was just being driven badly!


----------



## gaz (26 Jul 2011)

Tynan said:


> seems a relevant post if it's serious head injuries



speculation that he wasn't wearing a helmet. Hard to make any valid points without knowing what he was wearing, the kind of head injury and how bad it was.
Helmets won't protect your head from being run over by a milk float.


----------



## The_East_Stand_View (26 Jul 2011)

Hi gaz, I think you got the wrong end of my post, sorry if not clear. I was not referring to the accident.

however the accident did alert my mind to the cyclists I see wearing no helmets.


----------



## 2Loose (26 Jul 2011)

The_East_Stand_View said:


> Hi gaz, I think you got the wrong end of my post, sorry if not clear. I was not referring to the accident.
> 
> however the accident did alert my mind to the cyclists I see wearing no helmets.



And those not wearing full body armour perhaps? Thoughtless post imo.


----------



## The_East_Stand_View (26 Jul 2011)

Why thoughtless loose?

To the contrary I am just concerned for other fellow cyclists safety I see who wear no helmets.


----------



## betty swollocks (26 Jul 2011)

Thought are with the poor victim and their friends and family.
Hope they pull through.
Please, no helmet comments, they're irrelevant.


----------



## Tynan (26 Jul 2011)

if he broke his ribs then body armour would be relevant

irrelevant? how?

almost all of these threads are a long list of speculations and wishing a stranger well so very little has any real worth


----------



## Matthames (27 Jul 2011)

Police are appealing for witnesses to come forward and call them on the 0845 60 70 999 quoting operation Stanwell:

http://www.sussexsaferroads.gov.uk/...eriously-injured-in-milk-float-collision.html


----------



## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

The_East_Stand_View said:


> Hope they are ok.
> 
> I regularly see road and cycle path commuters not wearing helmets where I cycle. I feel like shouting to them please wear a helmet to protect yourself.



Do you feel like shouting the same to pedestrians too?
Head injured pedestrian, Lancing, 25 July 2011
Head injured pedestrian, Brighton, 17 July 2011

If not why not?


----------



## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

Tynan said:


> seems a relevant post if it's serious head injuries
> 
> I'd say start a book but we may never find out whether they were you know what...



The journalistic tradition seems to be:

No helmet and head injury: mention helmet
No helmet and no head injury: mention helmet
Helmet and no head injury: mention helmet
Helmet and head injury: don't mention helmet


----------



## 007fair (27 Jul 2011)

Heard of a similar incident near me in Glasgow recently - and it really puts me off cycling in cities on roads You just have very little chance with a 1 to 2 ton vehicle and concrete involved - even when there very little speed (of the vehicle) involved

Vehicles and bikes just shouldn't be on the same road for the same reasons as people and vehicles shouldn't

I would vote for consistent separate cycle paths and leave the cars to it 

I used to live on the front at brighton too (and then lived in Haywards Heath) Have good memories of both Sorry to hear of both places in such circumstances


----------



## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

007fair said:


> Heard of a similar incident near me in Glasgow recently - and it really puts me off cycling in cities on roads You just have very little chance with a 1 to 2 ton vehicle and concrete involved - even when there very little speed (of the vehicle) involved
> 
> Vehicles and bikes just shouldn't be on the same road for the same reasons as people and vehicles shouldn't
> 
> ...



I think you've sorted most of it in recognising its the big lorries that are the problem However I think you have come to the wrong conclusion for the following reasons.


Despite it being gruesome when it happens, it is extremely rare. Taking London as an example its about one death per 20 million journeys (Boris Bikes have managed 6 million trips without even a single serious injury and segregated facilities are rare in London). At say four hundred journeys a year that's about 50,000 years on average before its likely to happen to you. You have about the same chance of it happening to you this year as you have of being the sole winner of the lottery jackpot this week. Yes, somebody is going to win it but its very very unlikely to be you.
Knowing that big lorries are the problem and being alert to that either when approaching them or they are approaching you is most of the way there to stopping it happening to you. You will get a far greater safety advantage from that than you could ever get from segregated facilities and the even better news is you can get it from today, not some time far off in the future when Utopia has been achieved.
The biggest problem is at junctions, not the bits in between, and segregated facilities don't solve the problem of junctions, only the bits in between. In fact they exacerbate it at junctions. The difference is that now instead of being in front of that truck in primary position in the traffic flow at the junction you are tucked away out of sight and out of mind in a segregated area and having to look out not only for the lorry but traffic coming from all the other directions of the junction as well. Pedestrians have a pretty good segregated network. Watch how motor vehicle treat pedestrians leaving their network to cross the road at a junction. Its far worse than how cyclists on the road get treated.


----------



## 2Loose (27 Jul 2011)

Anyone have any more news of the victim and driver?

If not I suggest that this thread gets diverted into the helmet threads area as it has gone seriously o.t.


----------



## 007fair (27 Jul 2011)

1479479 said:


> And what is your plan for those roads where there is no space for total segregation?



I don't propose a cycle patch for every road But in Cities there should be good clear clean cycle routes which have no cars I take the point of Red Light that intersections will still be a problem but there can be under and/or over passes where possible 
I also think that outside cities there should - if at all possible - be separate cycle routes This is happening a bit but will be a long time before satisfactory due to logistics and costs .. but this is the way it should be going When I am PM ...

cycling should not be seen as a high risk sport (not counting Mountain biking or road racing) but as a healthy and cheap alternative transport option Plus I feel alot of motorists really don't care if they knock someone off a bike, its their risk (the cyclist)

Red Light - I know statisically its fairly rare But I hear of more serious injuries / deaths around town to cyclists than anything else Car accidents won't cause injuries in town due to the low speeds Its only on country roads and motorways that car deaths increase


----------



## 007fair (27 Jul 2011)

Sorry.. thoughts are with the cyclist Not trying to be disrespectful


----------



## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

007fair said:


> Car accidents won't cause injuries in town due to the low speeds Its only on country roads and motorways that car deaths increase



Are you sure about that? About one third of all road fatalities occur on 30mph speed limit roads and half of them on built up roads (RRCGB2009)


----------



## Red Light (27 Jul 2011)

007fair said:


> I take the point of Red Light that intersections will still be a problem but there can be under and/or over passes where possible



Lets take a simple cross roads. Would you care to provide a sketch of how these under and over passes are to be arranged, not forgetting that cyclists are likely to want to turn left, turn right or go straight on at the junction coming from all four directions and are unlikely to want to cycle up a steep ramp at every junction?


----------



## dave r (27 Jul 2011)

Firstly, my best wishes to the rider involved for a speedy recovery.
Secondly this thread makes me sad, someone is hurt and all you lot can do is bicker about helmets and segregation, some posters on here should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## 007fair (28 Jul 2011)

dave r said:


> Firstly, my best wishes to the rider involved for a speedy recovery.
> Secondly this thread makes me sad, someone is hurt and all you lot can do is bicker about helmets and segregation, some posters on here should be ashamed of themselves.



I thought it was more debate than bicker. Road safety is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear of this sort of thing No intended disprespect to the injured, so I'll raise a new thread on the segregation thing


----------



## CliveA (28 Jul 2011)

The cyclist in question is a guy I used to work with - a very nice bloke. All of us who know him are quite shaken by this news.

I won't give full details of his situation without relevant permission to do so, but it's fair to say there is some waiting to do before we learn more about the effects of this collision.

It upsets me that the helmet subject gets brought up by those who feel the need to lecture others on their behaviour. So so much has been written and debated already on the myths and assumptions around helmets.

For the information of the person who "feels like shouting to them please wear a helmet to protect yourself", I can inform you that he was wearing a helmet when he was hit by the van.


This is not about helmets.


The full facts are not yet known, but the two thoughts in my mind are:


- Rather than looking for road layout or helmet-wearing as a way of reducing risks, responsibility has to be taken for the awful driving that is too abundant on our roads. I rode across this junction twice a day for six years. Vehicles zoom down Dukes Mound treating it like a speedy seafront short cut. I have had several near misses.


- The new(ish) cyclepath along that area of the seafront is awful. It takes space away from pedestrians and then presents eastbound riders with a terrible swerving path across the road. Some parties' constant begging for cyclepaths does not always solve problems. Sometimes it makes them worse.


----------

