# The fallacy of "servicing" a bicycle.



## Globalti (16 Sep 2014)

I posted this in a thread on Technical Know How but I think the point is so important that I'm re-posting it here as a new thread, with a couple of edits:

The idea of doing a "service" on a bike is misguided; it's not a modern car where you only need to change oils and filters and not much else. A bicycle is a collection of delicate lightweight systems that need to be tweaked and kept in adjustment to get the best from them and the only way to do that is to learn to do it yourself.

I despair when I see people posting that their bike "has just been serviced " and they expect it to be running perfectly. You will only know when a something needs attention if you are attuned to the sound and feel of it or you take the time to inspect it carefully; which you can't expect a mechanic in a bike shop to do when he's under pressure and being distracted by colleagues, customers, loud music and his mobile phone. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance if you want to understand more about quality work and the futility of handing your precious machine to a so-called "professional".

Bike "servicing" is a dirty, boring, tiring, tedious job that makes no profit no matter how much the shop charges. Speaking as a bike fettler who has tried, briefly, to make a living from servicing bikes, there's nothing more depressing or demotivating than receiving a bike in a filthy or neglected condition from a customer who expects you to wave a magic wand and make it like new again, especially when you know that your efforts won't be appreciated and they will continue to abuse and neglect the bike.

The simplest and cheapest answer is to buy some tools and learn to do your own maintenance. That way, when the bike breaks out on the road, you've a better chance of fixing it yourself.

Not all bike mechanics are muppets; I know a couple of excellent mechanics at my LBSs who certainly know more than me but I would not expect them to be able to perform routine maintenance or adjustments, which is the rider's job.


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## swansonj (16 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> . A bicycle is a collection of delicate lightweight systems that need to be tweaked and kept in adjustment to get the best from it.


Not a description I find readily applies to my bike 

Seriously, I may happen to share your philosophy for myself, but if we try to proselytise others to that view, aren't we doing the same exclusive, offensive and ultimately counterproductive thing that cyclists do all the time - say that you can only be a "real" cyclist if your way of cycling is the same as mine?


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## Lemond (16 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> ... the only way to do that is to learn to do it yourself.



Nice idea. Problem is I tried it once and totally buggered up the gears on my bike. Then where do you go other than back to your LBS?


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## Globalti (16 Sep 2014)

Did you try asking the shop staff to show you how to do the adjustment? I'm sure they are as irked as you by this kind of problem and would be only too happy to show you.


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## Hip Priest (16 Sep 2014)

There are some things I do myself and some that I prefer the shop to do. Therefore I tend to put the bikes in the shop once a year for a full service, and keep it fettled myself in the meantime.


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2014)

Whilst in some ways I agree, I can see that getting is not for everybody.
I do all the rudimentary maintenance myself on the home fleet, but jobs such as modern bottom bracket replace not I don't do often because I lack the specific tools. (Cup and cones on old Squate taper I can do as I have tools for that).
I do cup and cone wheel bearings but not sealed types. 
I don't fix wheels.
I don't do ahead sets.
But everything else I do on a need-too basis.
I could learn to do more, I could learn to fix the car too, but am not interested nor do I have the time.

So I can see why it's easy to take a bike to the shop, have cables adjusted, chains replaced, headsets and bearings lubed and adjusted and the bike come out feeling better than it went in.
Like my car, I just want to drive the chuffing thing, I have no interest in how it works.


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## Globalti (16 Sep 2014)

_"There are some things I do myself and some that I prefer the shop to do. Therefore I tend to put the bikes in the shop once a year for a full service, and keep it fettled myself in the meantime."_

But what do they do at the "full service" that you can't?


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2014)

It's one of those books that most people only read about half way ... And I'm one.


User13710 said:


> But only if you have an excess of the will to live to get rid of.


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> _"There are some things I do myself and some that I prefer the shop to do. Therefore I tend to put the bikes in the shop once a year for a full service, and keep it fettled myself in the meantime."_
> 
> But what do they do at the "full service" that you can't?


In my case very little, but for others for whom cycling is simply a means of transport rather than a hobby or minor interest then the answer might be everything.
Not all people are interests or hugely capable of fixing things.


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## Crackle (16 Sep 2014)

Actually, I thought it was a great book but I don't recall a chapter on bicycle gears.


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## Lemond (16 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Did you try asking the shop staff to show you how to do the adjustment? I'm sure they are as irked as you by this kind of problem and would be only too happy to show you.



He wasn't irked at all. He was perfectly happy to do the work, gave my bike a thorough going over, and charged what I thought to be a very reasonable price. I'm one very happy customer, go out of my way to visit his shop and have recommended him to all of my friends.


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## glenn forger (16 Sep 2014)

Each to their own but I kind of disagree. I am useless at fettling, I get cross and frustrated at anything more arduous than changing an inner and even that takes eleventy-twelve swear words, a barked knuckle and a kicked cat, I would much rather hand the whole gubbins over to a man in greasy overalls who knows what he's doing. Jesus said, I think correctly, put your light under the bushel and remember the parable of the talents where there's this bloke who does something or other, I forget the details. Anyway. Wise words.


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## Mile195 (16 Sep 2014)

I do all my servicing myself. But some people just don't want to though which is fair enough really. 

I have a friend that loves to ride motorbikes and bicycles but he has absolutely no interest in working on them, and despite being very intelligent academically, he's useless with anything more mechanical than a pencil sharpener. He'd much rather pay someone else do it. He won't even lube his own motorbike chain - gets me or his father to do it.

In fact I tried to get him to learn how to fix a puncture once. He said he'd rather call a taxi and get them to take him and the bike to a bike shop (after I told him that no - the AA definitely WILL NOT come out and fix a pushbike).

So I agree with the OP in that anyone who wants to should learn, but while remembering that actually, not everyone wants to learn which is a personal choice.


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## welsh dragon (16 Sep 2014)

I am not a serious cyclist. I go out when I feel like it. If I don't then my bike is left in my car or the garage. I don't really know how it works and to be honest I don't care either, and I don't care if people like that attitude or not. I dont know or care how my car works either. If it breaks or needs a service, I take it to the garage.

you know the saying, why buy a dog and bark yourself. I am quite happy to pay someone else to do the dirty work and if I'm happy with that that's all that matters. As some have said, each to they're own. If you like tinkering and fettling for hours getting grease up to your elbows then fine. I don't. I'll leave it to others to put right. I just want to ride my bike When i feel like it.


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## byegad (16 Sep 2014)

I agree whole-heartedly with the OP. A 'service' can range from checking cables condition, adjustment of gears and brakes and pumping up the tyres to completely stripping the bike to basic components, replacing worn items, truing wheels and repacking all bearings. You can guess what your £30 at the LBS buys. 

I check the trikes every now and then fix anything I find. Periodically I check the chain with a go/no go gauge and re-lube or replace it as necessary. All of this depends on the amount of use the trike gets, one sits for months between rides, another weeks at most and the other is ridden several times a week, so they get different amounts of attention over the year.


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## Bollo (16 Sep 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> I am not a serious cyclist....


The anti-bonj!

CC old timers' reference - sorry!


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## Smokin Joe (16 Sep 2014)

As I said in t'other thread, most "Servicing" consists of nothing more than the turn of an adjuster to take up slack in a cable, It used to amaze me when I rode the odd sportive how some very expensive bikes made a noise like a nail bomb in a biscuit tin on every gear change, a problem that could be solved in less than ten seconds by anyone with even the minimum of knowledge. And for every cyclist you see at the roadside changing a tube there'll be another on the phone to his wife to come and pick him up.


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## welsh dragon (16 Sep 2014)

Bollo said:


> The anti-bonj!
> 
> CC old timers' reference - sorry!



 sorry


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## Cycleops (16 Sep 2014)

Lemond said:


> Nice idea. Problem is I tried it once and totally buggered up the gears on my bike. Then where do you go other than back to your LBS?


But with advent of YouTube everyone is an instant expert, so there's never any need to fail again.


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## Dmcd33 (16 Sep 2014)

I've saved a fortune in amassing a load of tools and things that help me maintain my bike. The main one being a good bike stand.

The only thing I use the bike shop for now is to 'Tru' my wheels. I've kept my eyes out for a machine, but My wheels only need this after a big bump or every 6mths (if that)

The other tip is that it's all on You Tube anyway and the tools can be got on Ebay for a reasonable price (be aware of the cheap chinese stuff though)

I must also add that I've F'.*'@ed up a few components with my lack of knowledge/patience, but is has been worth it in the long run.


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## Lemond (16 Sep 2014)

Cycleops said:


> But with advent of YouTube everyone is an instant expert, so there's never any need to fail again.



If you can point me in the direction of some recommended "how to" videos, I'd be more than interested.


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## Cycleops (16 Sep 2014)

Lemond said:


> If you can point me in the direction of some recommended "how to" videos, I'd be more than interested.


There are so many, but try this one for starters on gear adjustment:

View: http://youtu.be/F37P_krSM9I


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## arch684 (16 Sep 2014)

I do all my own servicing and repairs but that's just me.many people are just not mechanically minded so have to use the lbs for repairs


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## Bollo (16 Sep 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> sorry


It's a compliment, believe me.


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## Windassisted (16 Sep 2014)

I generally do the fettling things meselph, trouble is when I disassemble a component I often drop the odd washer or piece in the grass and the thing does not work quite as well afterwards.


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## KneesUp (16 Sep 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> I do all the rudimentary maintenance myself on the home fleet, but jobs such as modern bottom bracket replace not I don't do often because I lack the specific tools. (Cup and cones on old Squate taper I can do as I have tools for that).
> I do cup and cone wheel bearings but not sealed types.
> I don't fix wheels.
> I don't do ahead sets.



I'm the opposite with BBs - I get the shop to put new ones in whenever I buy a rusty wreck off eBay a new bike because that's all I have tools for. Wheels fixing is basically alchemy.


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## cd365 (16 Sep 2014)

I do everything myself to the best of my ability! I wouldn't touch truing a wheel though, tried as a kid and failed miserably! As a kid I could strip a bike right down and rebuild, but wheels are a black art!


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## rb58 (16 Sep 2014)

I enjoy 'servicing' and repairing my bike. I'm fortunate in that I could afford to give it to a shop, but I choose not to. Not because the LBS is rubbish, but because I enjoy doing it myself. In fact, one of the first things I did when I got my 'Sunday Best' (and expensive) bike was to take it apart completely - back to a bare frame - and then building it up again so I understood how everything worked and what each component looked like in 'as new' condition. Very satisfying. On the other hand, I've never lifted the bonnet on my daily car. Can't be ar5ed - it's the garage every time. What I think I'm trying to say is that people's motivation for working on their bikes is many and varied.


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

Doing your own work for me is as much about appreciating and understanding the machine as riding it.

There's is nothing as satisfying - and wallet friendly - as keeping your own bike in top form. Tools are cheap, internet guides are many, so it never been easier.


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## Davidc (16 Sep 2014)

I've done most of my own servicing for about 50 years - mainly because I enjoy it.

BUT

It's not for everyone. I know a number of cyclists who don't enjoy doing mechanical or repairy things to their bikes, and use a bike shop instead.

Why should anyone feel pressured into doing maintenance if they don't want to? If they enjoy riding but not the practical bit then that's their choice and it's not up to any of us who happen to be able to do our own (and enjoy it) to suggest that there's anything wrong with just getting out and riding, leaving the maintenance to others and paying them for the privilege. Like rb58 above that's exactly the view I take about cars.

The only thing I think everyone should learn though is to take off a tyre, find whatever made the hole in the tube and remove it, put a spare tube in and replace the tyre - then work some form of reinflation device.


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## Hop3y (16 Sep 2014)

I would love to but simply don't know how! Any good YouTube channels to subscribe to, and learn from there?


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## Dogtrousers (16 Sep 2014)

For me the elephant in the room, well in the hallway, is my new bike's SRAM Apex indexed shifters. Great big mysterious modern things sitting on my handlebars. I can just about set up the indexing if it goes off, but I have no idea what I'd need to do to replace the brake or gear cables (well, I do know - I'd download the SRAM manual and go on youtube). I ought to really, to be prepared for roadside emergencies.

I can do most other things - provided they don't have anything to do with spokes. Wheel trueing is beyond me.

I do lift the bonnet of my car. I'm a dab hand at filling up the windscreen washer resevoir. I even mix my own screenwash sometimes (really hard core car maintenance)


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Sep 2014)

[QUOTE="Globalti, post: 3282133, member: 357" I know a couple of excellent mechanics at my LBSs who certainly know more than me but* I would not expect them to be able to perform routine maintenance or adjustments*, which is the rider's job.[/QUOTE]
Why not?


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

Because bike mechanics aren't available in a handy pocket size, can't leap out to make adjustments mid ride when they are needed. If the rider can't do their own running maintenance and adjustments then their pleasurable use of a bike is seriously curtailed.


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## potsy (16 Sep 2014)

I do pretty much everything myself, still to attempt wrapping new bar tape though but that is my next job.
One thing I'm not too confident about is replacing the BB30 on my Caad, not that it needs it yet but thinking ahead to when it does.


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## Sara_H (16 Sep 2014)

I've done a bike maimtenance course and I can at least do a few bits now, though if I'm honest some of the course content went over my head.

The revelatin for me has been learning how to adjust brakes. I had no idra how to do it previously. It use to frustrate the hell out of me that brakes seem to e able to stop working properly and I had no idea what to do!


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## Globalti (16 Sep 2014)

GrumpyGregry said:


> [QUOTE="Globalti, post: 3282133, member: 357" I know a couple of excellent mechanics at my LBSs who certainly know more than me but* I would not expect them to be able to perform routine maintenance or adjustments*, which is the rider's job.


Why not?[/QUOTE]

Er... because they live 25 miles away from me?


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## John the Monkey (16 Sep 2014)

Bollo said:


> The anti-bonj!
> 
> CC old timers' reference - sorry!



AHEM. I draw Mr. Bollo's attention to my sub avatar title.


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## Andrew_P (16 Sep 2014)

When I first had my Hybrid many moons ago I rode about 1000 miles without cleaning the chain, and used anything from WD40 to the heavy green gunk on it, never washed the bike or anything. Was gutted when I picked it up still as dirty as I had left it with them. A New chain and new disc pads didn't soften the blow


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## the_mikey (16 Sep 2014)

I do what I can when I can, but anything that needs some time spent on it will languish unused in the garage until I have time to look at it or time to take it to the LBS. Next job waiting for some time is a complete replacement of brake and gear cables, new bar tape and clean and check of headset + bearings on my old Giant Defy 2.


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## Smokin Joe (16 Sep 2014)

It's a great shame how the ability to do even the simplest mechanical repairs seems to be a dying thing. In my road of 35 houses only myself and one other ever lift the bonnet of their cars to check fluid levels, let alone do anything else. Whenever I buy second hand I make a point of asking the seller a few basic questions that need just a minimum of technical knowledge to answer. If I get a blank look in return I walk on the grounds I'm probably looking at a neglected lemon.


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## nickyboy (16 Sep 2014)

I hate doing stuff to my bike, it's time I could spend doing something more enjoyable.

I'll do little bits and bobs cos it's a pain to take it to the LBS but most stuff I give to them. While they're fixing it, I'm doing something I'd rather be doing.


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## Fnaar (16 Sep 2014)

I'm hit and miss with DIY-fettling. I've done things like successfully change the jockey wheels for new ones. And it worked. I was surprised. I've also got my gears working again when they were all over the place. _However, on another day, my fettling just makes things worse_. That's when I hand over to lbs-man.

*I had a go at fettling Miss Goodbody-up-the-road's bottom bracket, but she said the man in the bike shop had a better array of tools. But I took longer.


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## Jon George (16 Sep 2014)

Fnaar said:


> *I had a go at fettling Miss Goodbody-up-the-road's bottom bracket, but she said the man in the bike shop had a better array of tools. But I took longer.


Ah, I have occasionally wondered what the script writers responsible for Mrs Solcombe's cat in Are You Being Served? are up to these days.


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## Jon George (16 Sep 2014)

The main lesson I have learnt from doing my own servicing/repairs is that no-where in life is the maxim 'Cheap Is Twice As Expensive' more applicable than in cycling.

Oh, and I solved the problem of regularly attempting The Art by buying relatively up-market wheel-sets for both #1 and #2 bikes.


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## Leodis (16 Sep 2014)

Is this thread about a LBS moaning about people giving LBS's business? A service might not be a money spinner but the other things whilst their does make them money. I am crap at anything except the basics, its how I am but I would rather have my bike fully stripped and serviced within a decent time than spend weekends working on it like some sad old man in a shed with nowt better to do.


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## mustang1 (16 Sep 2014)

I need new brake pads. I will book the bike into the shop. Its not that I can't do it, bit why should I?

PS. Some cars need a lot of tuning too, sports cars.


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2014)

I don't mind servicing Mrs FF every now and then ....


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## mustang1 (16 Sep 2014)

What did you buy with this fortune you amassed? 



Dmcd33 said:


> I've *saved a fortune* in amassing a load of tools and things that help me maintain my bike. The main one being a good bike stand.
> 
> The only thing I use the bike shop for now is to 'Tru' my wheels. I've kept my eyes out for a machine, but My wheels only need this after a big bump or every 6mths (if that)
> 
> ...


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## mustang1 (16 Sep 2014)

Gcn


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## Brandane (16 Sep 2014)

mustang1 said:


> I need new brake pads. I will book the bike into the shop. Its not that I can't do it, bit why should I?


Because it would take all of 10 minutes to DIY, after ChainReaction/Wiggle had delivered the parts through your letter box.

I view bike maintenance as an on-going project, where anything that needs adjusted, lubricated, or replaced gets done as it needs it. 
I don't see the point in letting faults fester and multiply until you eventually take the bike into a shop. Or end up visiting the LBS every week with whatever might have gone out of adjustment (or squeak, rattle or whatever).
It's bicycles we are talking about here isn't it? They are basic machines, it's definitely not rocket science!


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

Leodis said:


> Is this thread about a LBS moaning about people giving LBS's business? A service might not be a money spinner but the other things whilst their does make them money. I am crap at anything except the basics, its how I am but I would rather have my bike fully stripped and serviced within a decent time than spend weekends working on it like some sad old Nan in a shed with nowt better to do.



Your confessed lack of knowledge lets you down. I got 7 bikes, all but one used regularly, and I average less than 15 minutes a week with the spanners, so I'm not sure where this "all weekend" Twilight Zone of bike maintenance comes from.

If you don't have the knowledge and don't feel like acquiring it then fair play, but the lack of time argument is a non starter. The journey alone to the bike shop takes longer than most repair jobs would.


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## Kevoffthetee (16 Sep 2014)

I'm fairly handy when I put my mind to things and I love to do the maintenance on my own bikes. it gives me the most pleasure when I'm out on a club run and the guys on 1 year plus higher end gear have bikes that are clicking, banging and squeaking but Le Pug (23years old) is as quiet as a mouse.

when it comes to bike maintenance, I find doing little and often beats the prospect of a major fail and a parts overhaul.


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## nickyboy (16 Sep 2014)

Drago said:


> Your confessed lack of knowledge lets you down. I got 7 bikes, all but one used regularly, and I average less than 15 minutes a week with the spanners, so I'm not sure where this "all weekend" Twilight Zone of bike maintenance comes from.
> 
> If you don't have the knowledge and don't feel like acquiring it then fair play, but the lack of time argument is a non starter. The journey alone to the bike shop takes longer than most repair jobs would.



If you had watched me trying to fit mudguards you might have a different opinoin


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## NorvernRob (16 Sep 2014)

mustang1 said:


> What did you buy with this fortune you amassed?



More tools to save more money.....


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

What should I do, as I can easily earn more per hour than my lbs charges.?


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## Moodyman (16 Sep 2014)

[QUOTE="Drago, post: 3283198, member: 22751"The journey alone to the bike shop takes longer than most repair jobs would.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, and then you've got to go back a few days later to collect it.

If your bike is your transport then this is not an option.


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## youngoldbloke (16 Sep 2014)

mustang1 said:


> I need new brake pads. I will book the bike into the shop. Its not that I can't do it, bit why should I?


Why shouldn't you? Do you take the bike in to get the tyres blown up too? Why not?


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

He takes it in to lube the chain and give it a polish.


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## Pat "5mph" (16 Sep 2014)

I think bike mechanics are like builders, plumbers, joiners - all workmen, really  to get them to do a job properly you need to have the knowledge of what is wrong in the first place.
When I started cycling I planned to take the bike to the lbs for everything. Alas, after a few times I could see some jobs are not worth his money nor his time, so I learned to do them myself. Getting there was difficult anyway, me working shifts.
I think if you cycle for transport you better learn the basics. Also, if you lead rides, some knowledge is essential.


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## Shut Up Legs (16 Sep 2014)

Lemond said:


> Nice idea. Problem is I tried it once and totally buggered up the gears on my bike. Then where do you go other than back to your LBS?


I believe a lot of cyclists go through this stage, a kind of transition stage where we're learning to replace and maintain parts ourselves, but don't always get it right. I posted in the Know How sub-forum just now about how excited I was that my latest derailleur adjustment (probably the most finicky, error-prone task in bicycle maintenance) left the gear-changing quiet and precise. However, I have taken a bike to a bike shop because I couldn't quite work out how to get a part running again, or just lacked the time to do it myself.


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## Colin_P (16 Sep 2014)

I cannot believe that so many of you don't attempt to try and fix and maintain your bikes.

I grew up in the 1970's and it was the done thing. As was fixing your own car and house. As for having better things to do, maybe, but not all the time. Sometimes get your hands dirty and physically doing something is joy itself not to mention the time and money saved as well.

Your Dad did it as did your Grandad probably more out of necessity back then but as people have mentioned above it is becoming a way of life we are losing. We are the nation that invented _everything_ and a lot of it happened in garden sheds and garages. Sad to see that go.

I fix and maintain, our house, our cars and our bikes. It really isn't difficult to learn, especially a bike as they are very simple machines. I suppose if you grew up in a household where it was the norm to get a 'man' in then the inclination to do things yourself simply isn't there.


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## CopperBrompton (16 Sep 2014)

Love the idea of it, but I am utterly mechanically incompetent. I can strip a thread at 100 paces merely by glancing in its general direction, and the Cobra committee is automatically convened if I come within ten feet of a spanner.

I out-source my spannering.


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## welsh dragon (16 Sep 2014)

Colin_P said:


> I cannot believe that so many of you don't attempt to try and fix and maintain your bikes.
> 
> I grew up in the 1970's and it was the done thing. As was fixing your own car and house. As for having better things to do, maybe, but not all the time. Sometimes get your hands dirty and physically doing something is joy itself not to mention the time and money saved as well.
> 
> ...



We always repaired our own home mainly because we couldn't afford to get someone In to do it, and even now we do all the jobs in and around the house. Cars nowadays aren't made to be worked on by owners, as often specialist tools are needed, and car companies don't want people to be able to do anything other than check your oil and spark plugs. And sweeping statements about people and theyre abilities and how they were brought up are really out of order. Good for you and the amount of work you do, but it is still my perogative to maintain my bike or get someone else to do it without someone trying to make me feel, that I am lacking in some way because I don't. as more than one person has said, each to his or her own.


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## arch684 (16 Sep 2014)

I think I must be that sad old man in a shed.the local kids come and ask me to fix there bikes but instead of me fixing them I get them to do the work while I watch and make sure they are doing it right .


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## mustang1 (17 Sep 2014)

A long time ago when I got into b


NorvernRob said:


> More tools to save more money.....


You must have a lot of money left over after spending a small part of your fortune.


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## mustang1 (17 Sep 2014)

Moodyman said:


> [QUOTE="Drago, post: 3283198, member: 22751"The journey alone to the bike shop takes longer than most repair jobs would.



Indeed, and then you've got to go back a few days later to collect it.

If your bike is your transport then this is not an option.[/QUOTE]

I have one lbs within one minute walking distance. I have 3 more lbs within 5 min walking distance. And I have one more lbs within 10 Min walking distance.

I also use my bike as a commuter. If there are any problems en route the I get the guy in the Skoda behind me to get a new bike off the roof rack. I usually give my old bike away so there is normally a queue of cyclists riding behind me INA peleton waiting for me to get a flat tire.


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## the_mikey (17 Sep 2014)

Colin_P said:


> Your Dad did it as did your Grandad probably more out of necessity back then but as people have mentioned above it is becoming a way of life we are losing. We are the nation that invented _everything_ and a lot of it happened in garden sheds and garages. Sad to see that go.



I agree, but more people than ever are living in poor quality flats with no garden, garage or sheds. Bicycles are often relegated to the less than secure 'communal bicycle storage area' since they're banned from the living area by the landlord or housing scheme, it leaves people with little incentive to invest in their bicycle, let alone invest time in maintaining it.


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## summerdays (17 Sep 2014)

I can do little bits but sometimes I lack the physical strength to do a job, for instance changing a gear cable. I can do most of it (jag wire ones so slightly more fiddley than normal), but I can't pull the cable tight enough to start the minor adjustment. I get Mr Summerdays at that point.

I also worry about doing it incorrectly and the fact that I don't want to find that out when I'm doing 20+ mph downhill, that it is wrong on a safety critical bit!


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## John the Monkey (17 Sep 2014)

nickyboy said:


> If you had watched me trying to fit mudguards you might have a different opinoin


"I know, I'll save time by leaving the wheels in and fitting the mudguards around them."

NEVER AGAIN.


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## youngoldbloke (17 Sep 2014)

I grew up with Meccano and taking bikes apart and putting them back together was a natural and obvious thing to do. I had built my racebike from components - 2nd hand 531 frame, full Campag groupset etc etc - in my early teens, and serviced bearings, bottom bracket, headset, and glued on tubs etc, without a second thought. I have a theory that with the demise of constructional toys such as Meccano, and the huge success of less demanding push fit Lego, and then computer games, practical activities have become much less natural for most people.


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## John the Monkey (17 Sep 2014)

The longer jobs, I guess, are the sort of stuff I tend to do pre-winter (regreasing seat post, bb threads, steerer). I'd reckon on a cable change every year too, at least on a regularly used bike, and that can take a while, depending on how finicky the routing, indexing &c is.

I do most jobs myself, although I'd balk at fitting a headset, or facing a BB shell. I think one of the joys of bicycles (pre-electronic shifting, at least) is that they are, mechanically, very simple. 

I like doing the maintenance I can do (as well as building wheels, &c) but some people don't, and that's fine - all you need is an LBS you can trust to do the work properly for you. 

There seems to be an odd, hair shirt mentality around some things in cycling (the racers all want everyone to "suffer", the shed grumps all want everyone to sweat over every little task themselves) that I don't entirely understand. You're not a bad person if you don't do your own maintenance. It makes sense to know how to do some roadside repairs, but even then, if you'd sooner not and have a viable bail out method if you need to abandon a ride, so what?


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## Ticktockmy (17 Sep 2014)

Personally I think this post is about a age thing in the main, those of us who started a cycling as a kid in the 1950's did what all kids did then, pulled our nice shining cycle apart even thought it was not busted, we used to mess about with them to make them go faster, but of course they did not, we would make them sound really cool by clipping thin bits of wood on to the forks so it rattled on the spokes, which sounded cool to us but pee'ed off the adults that you whissed by making strange and magical noises that kids were want to do in those days. as I recall it was mainly spitfire noises and machine gun noises we made, after all we had been brought up thought WW2

When something went wrong, out would come an oversized spanner,big hammer and screwdriver, which we thought would do the job, but of course it did not. so it was down the road to the nice old man, well he was old to us 11 year old's, and he would help us fix it, the result is that over our teen years we learnt to fix our cycles, and the big hammer still has it uses. I have for so many years never though of going to the LSB, as nothing on a bike is complicated, and like when I was a kid, I tend to do a running service, service each part in an order each week. but I have friends my age who hate getting grease on there hands, so now it me who is the nice old man.LOL


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## John the Monkey (17 Sep 2014)

Ticktockmy said:


> Personally I think this post is about a age thing in the main, those of us who started a cycling as a kid in the 1950's did what all kids did then...


I've been cycling "properly" since about 2007.

I'm not particularly handy, or mechanically minded in other ways (although I can turn my hand to carpentry, now I think of it). I learnt most of my maintenance from online resources like bicycle tutor, and the occasional trip to my local LBS. I learnt to build wheels from websites and Roger Musson's excellent e-book. 

I'm not sure if I'm typical of cyclists who do their own maintenance or not, but at least one of us who does doesn't fit the narrative you have there.


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## Longshot (17 Sep 2014)

I can't be bothered. I'd rather pay someone else to do it.


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## Globalti (17 Sep 2014)

Part of repairing and maintaining things, especially mechanical things, is having a mechanic's "feel" for the characteristics of materials, mostly the elasticity of metals. A good, instinctive mechanic knows the difference between just snug, tight and "eff-off" tight (old English technical term) when doing up a nut; the good mechanic appreciates that as you tighten a nut you can just get the surfaces touching, or you can begin to stretch the material or you can really stress it to the point where you are in danger of breaking it. Different metals have different elasticities and some materials, porcelain for example, have no elasticity and are easily broken. A good mechanic also knows that some materials may be incredibly resistant when used in the correct way, a well-lubricated plain bearing will give many years of good service but if you handle it with a tool that's harder than its own surface you will cause irreparable damage, hence the need for plastic and copper mallets when assembling engine parts that are incredibly hard-wearing. There's also an appreciation of how things are manufactured and how they must therefore be disassembled and reassembled.

Some people don't have this instinctive understanding and never will, so I guess they will never be able to fix their houses or cars or bikes.


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## Rob3rt (17 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Bike "servicing" is a dirty, boring, tiring, tedious job that makes no profit no matter how much the shop charges.



Excuse me... what?


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## vickster (17 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Some people don't have this instinctive understanding and never will, so I guess they will never be able to fix their houses or cars or bikes.



That's me...I also have less than zero interest in mechanical things and fixing them, ditto computers, so will never be inclined to obtain knowledge


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## Simontm (17 Sep 2014)

I guess I started this off on the other thread when I said I had a service from Evans. 

I took the bike for a service as it was was free - of course if I had know the trouble it would cause me post-check I wouldn't have bothered. 

To clarify, I grew up in the seventies with hardly any money and two older brothers so I used to build my own bikes from the scraps left behind. Time moves on and I have got back to biking this year. 

However, with a full-blown family life and career, the bike is not the priority and when/if I get time, then I do checks on the bike - otherwise, and after a few months, I would go to the brilliant LBS near me if I needed to. And sometimes it is necessary. I had no idea what had happened to my back brake when it locked so I took it to the LBS who told me about the cock-up from Evans. 

I'm out of practice, hence questions on this here forum . 

As @John the Monkey says, there seems to be a curious hair shirt mentality in the bike world. For instance, I want to shout "smile!" to the weekend wheelies as they frown their way round North Surrey - to me if you can't smile when bombing around on a bike, what's the point? 

And to the grease monkeys, it is not a badge of shame if someone can't or won't fix their bike - and it provides a bit of income to the LBS . BTW, until this year I'd never heard of servicing a bike, fettling, and such like. Where I grew up. you oiled the chain about once a month or so, checked that the brakes, gears and tyres actually worked and you were off. You didn't think of it as a service. You didn't have tyre levers, if you remembered you had one of your mum's serving spoons in the back pocket. Occasionally you may take a rag to the frame if you had ridden through some muck!

I guess I'm saying each to their own!


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## Globalti (17 Sep 2014)

To continue this discussion, here's an excerpt from my favourite book on quality, about the perils of using a bad professional mechanic. Pirsig's motorcycle engine seized and following the seizure, was making a noise of piston slap, which is a typical consequence:

From Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig.

_"I took this machine into a shop because I thought it wasn’t important enough to justify getting into myself, having to learn all the complicated details and maybe having parts and special tools and all that time-dragging stuff when I could get someone else to do it in less time – sort of John’s attitude.

The shop was a different scene from the ones I remembered. The mechanics, who had once all seemed like ancient veterans, now looked like children. A radio was going full blast and they were clowning around and talking and seemed not to notice me. When one of them finally came over he barely listened to the piston slap before saying, “Oh yeah, tappets.”

Tappets? I should have known then what was coming.

Two weeks later I paid their bill for 140 dollars, rode the cycle carefully at varying low speeds to wear it in and then after one thousand miles opened it up. At about seventy-five it seized again and freed at thirty, the same as before. When I brought it back they accused me of not breaking it in properly, but after much argument agreed to look into it. They overhauled it again and this time took it out themselves for a high-speed road test.

It seized on them this time. 

After the third overhaul two months later they replaced the cylinders, put in oversize main carburettor jets, retarded the timing to make it run as coolly as possible and told me, “don’t run it fast.” 

It was covered with grease and did not start. I found the plugs were disconnected, connected them and started it, and now there really was a tappet noise. They hadn’t adjusted them. I pointed this out and the kid came with an open-end adjustable wrench, set wrong, and swiftly rounded both of the sheet-aluminum tappet covers, ruining both of them.

“I hope we’ve got some more of these in stock,” he said.

I nodded.

He brought out a hammer and cold chisel and started to pound them loose. The chisel punched through the aluminium cover and I could see he was pounding the chisel right into the engine head. On the next blow he missed the chisel completely and struck the head with the hammer, breaking off a portion of two of the cooling fins.

“Just stop,” I said politely, feeling this was a bad dream. “Just give me some new covers and I’ll take it the way it is.”

I got out of there as fast as possible, noisy tappets, shot tappet covers, greasy machine, down the road, and then felt a bad vibration at speeds over twenty. At the kerb I discovered two of the four engine-mounting bolts were missing and a nut was missing from a third. The whole engine was hanging on by only one bolt. The overhead-cam chain-tensioner bolt was also missing, meaning it would have been hopeless to try to adjust the tappets anyway. Nightmare.

The thought of John putting his BMW into the hands of one of these people is something I have never brought up with him. Maybe I should.

I found the cause of the seizures a few weeks later, waiting to happen again. It was a little twenty-five cent pin in the internal oil-delivery system that had been sheared and was preventing oil from reaching the head at high speeds."

_


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## Fab Foodie (17 Sep 2014)

You're reading the wrong book Globalti .....


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## Cyclopathic (17 Sep 2014)

I don't offer a "service" as such. I often get people ask me how much for a service and I simply say that it depends what is wrong. I don't see the point in changing brake blocks, cables etc if they are perfectly ok and have good life in them, just for the sake of doing a service. I assess the bike and it's faults and give the customer an estimate based on that. If other things occur whilst working on it I get in touch and let then know so they can decide what to do.

I get customers who don't even know how to use a pump and think they need to come to me for air in their tyres. I usually pump them up and give them a quick tutorial and advise them to get a pump. Also there are people who are able to do bits and bobs themselves but don't have the tools the time or the inclination. I do think going to mechanic to pumpup your tyres is a bit like getting an electrician in to change a bulb.


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## Globalti (17 Sep 2014)

Well, yes... that's called routine maintenance. Every couple of weeks especially in winter I take out the brake blocks, give them a good clean up and de-glaze and pick out the grit. It helps to reduce wear on the wheel rims. When the blocks have worn down to the indicator bars I replace them.


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## tyred (17 Sep 2014)

I do all my own repairs on cars, bikes etc. The only exception might be if I were to need a special tool for something and couldn't justify buying it. It was the done thing when growing up to just roll your sleeves up and get the toolbox out. I grew up on a farm and machinery was always home maintained/repaired. If you are sitting in a field of hay with a broken baler and a real threat of rain, you haven't time to book it into a garage next week, you need to do whatever you need to do to get it working right now, even if it may be using "techniques" you won't find in the service manual.

The other thing is that having seen the handiwork of some professional mechanics (Cars, bikes and machinery), some aren't to be trusted and at least if I do something I will either have done it right (or completely broken it!) and we all learn from mistakes.

I understand that some simply lack interest (you pay your money, etc), others think they lack the skills but probably only really lack confidence. Pull a bike out of a skip, doesn't really matter what it is, get a few basic tools and some penetrating oil, and pull it apart and rebuild it. It's the best way to learn imo.


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## John the Monkey (17 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> I get customers who don't even know how to use a pump and think they need to come to me for air in their tyres. I usually pump them up and give them a quick tutorial and advise them to get a pump. Also there are people who are able to do bits and bobs themselves but don't have the tools the time or the inclination. I do think going to mechanic to pumpup your tyres is a bit like getting an electrician in to change a bulb.


I remember being in Supreme Cycles a couple of times when folk have come in to have punctures repaired (£5 incl new tube, iirc). 

The guy in the shop usually offers to demonstrate (jovially saying something like "You don't need to keep paying me to do this, lads") sometimes people take him up on it, sometimes they don't.


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## Profpointy (17 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> I remember being in Supreme Cycles a couple of times when folk have come in to have punctures repaired (£5 incl new tube, iirc).
> 
> The guy in the shop usually offers to demonstrate (jovially saying something like "You don't need to keep paying me to do this, lads") sometimes people take him up on it, sometimes they don't.




There was a very bizarre letter to the local paper in Cheltenham a few years ago where a woman was complaining a bike shop wouldn't help "a damsel in distress" by doing a "temporary" repair to a puncture but wanted to charge her for a new tube, whatever the-f a "temporary repair" to a puncture might be.

The follow up letters were pretty scathing (to her) it must be said.

Whilst I'd always do my own puncture repair, I don't see any fundamental issue with someone paying the price of a coffee & bun for someone to do it for them. I might consider such a person a bit feebly mind.


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## Fab Foodie (17 Sep 2014)

Life's to short to fix a puncture daahlin' ....


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## John the Monkey (17 Sep 2014)

Leodis said:


> You can fully strip down a bike, true the wheelset and grease everything in 15 minutes... This LBS needs you working there.


That's an *average*.

Probably a lot of 5 minute weekends, and one infrequent, but hideous, all nighter...


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## Leodis (17 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> That's an *average*.
> 
> Probably a lot of 5 minute weekends, and one infrequent, but hideous, all nighter...



Sorry removed it as it was a bit arsey. I do the basics to keep my bikes ticking over but once a year I get the fully stripped down and serviced.


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## Profpointy (17 Sep 2014)

Fab Foodie said:


> Life's to short to fix a puncture daahlin' ....



The alternative to mending your own puncture, is the long push-of-shame home, followed by a further push-of-shame to the bike shop, so getting someone else to do it for you isn't saving time nor hassle. Unless of course, you just ring your butler to send the car out for you of course.

(I do realise your post was tongue-in-check)


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## theclaud (17 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Different metals have different elasticities and some materials, porcelain for example, have no elasticity and are easily broken.



I quite agree. I should have known the porcelain bicycle was a bad idea even before I tried to fix it with a sledgehammer.


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## vickster (17 Sep 2014)

I've taken my bike in the car to get puncture fixed...the disc brakes frighten me and Evans only charge a fiver + tube

I do fix roadbike punctures myself but never alone yet by the roadside...I have both walked and cadged a lift from friends and family 

I hate fixing punctures, source of dirty hands, sore thumbs and much frustration for me! I only replace the tube, life's too short for repairs and I seem to end up with gaping holes not teeny slits anyhow!!!!!!


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## Jon George (17 Sep 2014)

And so, after dipping into this thread since its initial posting and feeling somewhat pleased with myself because I can strip my bikes down, my new cassette arrived. (I'd got fed up with my natural cadence/effort being right at the change-over point between the small and big ring and decided to experiment with different ratios.) The first minor alarm bell was when there was no pleasant 'ratcheting' sound as I tightened it up. The second alarm bell came when I found I had to tweak the limit on the derailleur. But I ignored the disquiet.
A few minutes into this morning's ride, and with a noise like a sack of nails coming from the cassette, I turned for home with the intention of tightening it up further. This I did. Still slightly loose. Tried to undo it to inspect it. Tried to undo it again. Tried to undo yet again while not bursting a blood vessel. After a longer adjustable was employed, and hell-or-bust effort, I got it off.
I had forgotten the wheelset came with an extra-thick spacer and I'd used the thinner one which came with the new cassette.
Issue solved - but feeling a bit of a twonk.


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## Fab Foodie (17 Sep 2014)

Profpointy said:


> The alternative to mending your own puncture, is the long push-of-shame home, followed by a further push-of-shame to the bike shop, so getting someone else to do it for you isn't saving time nor hassle. Unless of course, you just ring your butler to send the car out for you of course.
> 
> (I do realise your post was tongue-in-check)


One get's one's Butler to swap a tube.


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## Cyclopathic (17 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> I remember being in Supreme Cycles a couple of times when folk have come in to have punctures repaired (£5 incl new tube, iirc).
> 
> The guy in the shop usually offers to demonstrate (jovially saying something like "You don't need to keep paying me to do this, lads") sometimes people take him up on it, sometimes they don't.


I have no objection to people paying me to do it but I will try and suggest that it would be a good skill to learn. Changing a tube though could be challenging for a novice. I worry more about the people who can't even pump their tyres up.


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## summerdays (17 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> I have no objection to people paying me to do it but I will try and suggest that it would be a good skill to learn. Changing a tube though could be challenging for a novice. I worry more about the people who can't even pump their tyres up.


I don't like pumping up tyres with an unfamiliar pump, sometime I don't operate it correctly and end up deflating the tyre instead. Someone also gave me a pump like that I can't decide whether I should give it away and assume operator incompetence or that I shouldn't as it will deflate someone else's tyres as well!


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## Cyclopathic (17 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> I don't like pumping up tyres with an unfamiliar pump, sometime I don't operate it correctly and end up deflating the tyre instead. Someone also gave me a pump like that I can't decide whether I should give it away and assume operator incompetence or that I shouldn't as it will deflate someone else's tyres as well!


Persevere. Some of the flexible connectors on the Shrader (car type) valve can be hit and miss. I've got one that works well and I guard it. The ones that fit on to the higher pressure, narrower Presta valves can also take a little getting used to. Practice with pumps and perhaps look on you tube for visual demonstrations. You might have to wade through some rubbish but it may help. Really is worth knowing how to do as you may not always be near a bike shop.


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## summerdays (17 Sep 2014)

Oh I have several pumps I like too, I have one track pump and then at least 3 or 4 ones to go in my bag, as I do misplace them occasionally. But I will go looking for one of the ones I like rather than use one I don't that's sitting handy, I always know where the ones I don't like are as they don't move!


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## Cyclopathic (17 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> Oh I have several pumps I like too, I have one foot pump and then at least 3 or 4 ones to go in my bag, as I do misplace them occasionally. But I will go looking for one of the ones I like rather than use one I don't that's sitting handy, I always know where the ones I don't like are as they don't move!


Right, got you. I think I misunderstood, but yes I agree. I've had pumps that were just useless and ones that I keep away from other people. I'm always reluctant to let anybody else use my track pump which does both sorts of valve, in case they bugger it up.


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## summerdays (17 Sep 2014)

I end up lending mine out reasonably frequently, and after some loosing a bit when someone had to reverse the inner bits for their valves, I now have one that automatically does both with no fiddling.


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## mustang1 (17 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> Why shouldn't you? Do you take the bike in to get the tyres blown up too? Why not?



Wait, did you build your bike yourself or did you buy it?


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## Drago (17 Sep 2014)

Built 3, bought 3, completely restored 1.


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## youngoldbloke (17 Sep 2014)

mustang1 said:


> Wait, did you build your bike yourself or did you buy it?


I would have if it had been the less expensive option . I'm quite happy to take it apart again and reassemble it if required.


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## ayceejay (17 Sep 2014)

I have put my back out with lifting the garage door more than once. I had a guy in who applied a treatment of oil and hammer that made little difference and was something I could do myself and did. Today a young guy came in and spent an hour, I told him the problem and went off to do something else. Maybe this guy is a wizard or just conscientious but the door works better than it has for at least ten years. How much is that worth?


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## Jon George (18 Sep 2014)

ayceejay said:


> I have put my back out with lifting the garage door more than once. I had a guy in who applied a treatment of oil and hammer that made little difference and was something I could do myself and did.



Back pain? It's a bugger, isn't it?


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## vernon (18 Sep 2014)

Windassisted said:


> I generally do the fettling things meselph, trouble is when I disassemble a component I often drop the odd washer or piece in the grass and the thing does not work quite as well afterwards.



Serves you right for not doing it in the living room over a light coloured carpet which will instantly show up any dirty greasy parts that you drop. .


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## mustang1 (18 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> I would have if it had been the less expensive option . I'm quite happy to take it apart again and reassemble it if required.



That's why I give my bike to the mechanics to fix, its less pricey for me.

BUT I was being a touchy arsey by saying I give my bike to the lbs to fix every time. The truth is most of the time I replace my own brake pads and do my own maintenance. I've striped bikes down and rebuilt them, just to see if I can do it. Its very convenient for me to drop the bike off at the lbs (only one minute away), go to the office, and at end of day pick the bike up. I'll even do that for a puncture.

So in summary, sometimes I'll work on the bike myself, and sometimes give to the mechanic. :thumb:


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## confusedcyclist (18 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> For me the elephant in the room, well in the hallway, is my new bike's SRAM Apex indexed shifters. Great big mysterious modern things sitting on my handlebars. I can just about set up the indexing if it goes off, but I have no idea what I'd need to do to replace the brake or gear cables (well, I do know - I'd download the SRAM manual and go on youtube). I ought to really, to be prepared for roadside emergencies.
> 
> I can do most other things - provided they don't have anything to do with spokes. Wheel trueing is beyond me.
> 
> I do lift the bonnet of my car. I'm a dab hand at filling up the windscreen washer resevoir. I even mix my own screenwash sometimes (really hard core car maintenance)


GCN on youtube is pretty good for the how-to's


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## Dogtrousers (18 Sep 2014)

confusedcyclist said:


> GCN on youtube is pretty good for the how-to's


 
I made one small step towards understanding my brifters last night. The right one has come a bit loose, so I downloaded the manual, folded back the rubber cover, and located the bolt that tightens up the bracket that holds it to the bars. Hooray for me!

I still think indexed gears are more trouble than they're worth and introduce too much fettling complexity. When I ride my bike that has friction shifters I never think "oh, how I wish these gears were clicky". And I definitely never think "oh, how I wish these shifters put the derailleur in exactly the wrong place and nowhere else" But that's way off topic.


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## Smokin Joe (18 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I still think indexed gears are more trouble than they're worth and introduce too much fettling complexity.



I'll disagree with that. They made gear changes so much faster (Invaluable if racing) and after taking up the initial cable slack on a new system i've never found any further adjustments necessary.


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## Colin_P (18 Sep 2014)

But if you are not racing the ability to 'trim' a friction lever to achieve silence is something wonderful. That said a properly adjusted indexed system should be silent.


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## Drago (18 Sep 2014)

You can't beat a bit of neatly trimmed, eh Colin?


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## Smokin Joe (18 Sep 2014)

Colin_P said:


> But if you are not racing the ability to 'trim' a friction lever to achieve silence is something wonderful.



Eh?

It took me two minutes to learn it when I first got a geared bike.


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## Colin_P (18 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Eh?
> 
> It took me two minutes to learn it when I first got a geared bike.



I'm not talking about how long it takes to learn how to do it but the ability to do it all. You cannot do it on the fly with indexed gears whereas with frictions silence is easily achieved.


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## Globalti (18 Sep 2014)

You can do it "on the fly" if you've got inline cable adjusters and you can work out which way they need turning!


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## wrenchloather (18 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> I posted this in a thread on Technical Know How but I think the point is so important that I'm re-posting it here as a new thread, with a couple of edits:
> 
> The idea of doing a "service" on a bike is misguided; it's not a modern car where you only need to change oils and filters and not much else. A bicycle is a collection of delicate lightweight systems that need to be tweaked and kept in adjustment to get the best from them and the only way to do that is to learn to do it yourself.
> 
> ...



All well in theory, and most of us would like nothing more than to fix any problems or keep our bikes ticking over in our garages or sheds.

Yet some of us dont even own a shed, garage or garden...try getting an oily bike apart in a one bed flat or bedsit - try doing that after a 10 hour night shift.

Then there's those of us who are not in any way mechanically or technically minded. Not all of us owned a Mecanno set from the age of 18 months. Saying "learn" how to service your bike is all well in theory, but some of us struggle to change a plug or light bulb. Calibrating speedos and messing around with wrenches is best left to those with the aptitude for it.

Bike mechanic work is doubtless tedious, frustrating and poorly remunerated - join the club! We all have to sell our labour to put food on the table - if bike mechanics want to improve their lot they'd be better off organising against capitalism rather than pointing fingers at folk for not owning enough spanners.


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## Tim Hall (18 Sep 2014)

Dogtrousers said:


> I made one small step towards understanding my *brifters* last night.



There's your mistake right there, Brifters. What a horrible word. Shifters, purlease. The wrath of $Supreme_Deity has come down on your head and caused all kinds of grief just for saying it. Or if it hasn't, it will do in a minute.


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## Tim Hall (18 Sep 2014)

vickster said:


> I've taken my bike in the car to get puncture fixed...the disc brakes frighten me and Evans only charge a fiver + tube
> 
> I do fix roadbike punctures myself but never alone yet by the roadside...I have both walked and cadged a lift from friends and family
> 
> I hate fixing punctures, source of dirty hands, sore thumbs and much frustration for me! I only replace the tube, life's too short for repairs and I seem to end up with gaping holes not teeny slits anyhow!!!!!!


Disposable gloves (latex or nitrile) and a VAR tyre lever are your friends for the first two problems listed. Hopefully they'll banish the third too.


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## Dogtrousers (18 Sep 2014)

Tim Hall said:


> There's your mistake right there, Brifters. What a horrible word. Shifters, purlease. The wrath of $Supreme_Deity has come down on your head and caused all kinds of grief just for saying it. Or if it hasn't, it will do in a minute.


Well if I've got to just call them one thing, it's brake levers. Fat brake levers, with ideas above their station, but brake levers all the same.


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## gurninman (19 Sep 2014)

I've not had my bike long , so apart from adjusting cables and levers to the right position and changing the qr skewers , I've not really done anything
I have been fixing my own motorbikes for 30 odd years though , so have *lots* of tools and like spending quality time in the garage.
Having said that , if people can't or don't want to do stuff themselves , then that's fine.All about personal choice, innit ?


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## Bodhbh (19 Sep 2014)

I've recently taken up homebrewing. In a few months of homebrewing, despite not really knowing what I'm up to, I've made better beers than I've ever drank in 20yrs of beer drinking, learnt more about the taste and balance and flavours than I ever knew, and it's all much cheaper than anything you could buy bar White Lightening. Yet still people buy tins of beer! Why?....well time and inclination....only so much time in the world, not everyone wants to spend it dicking around with bikes/beer/monrobagging/knitting their own jumpers/darning socks/cooking/making jam/etc etc etc


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## Roadrider48 (19 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Did you try asking the shop staff to show you how to do the adjustment? I'm sure they are as irked as you by this kind of problem and would be only too happy to show you.


They want to make money from fixing people's bikes, not teach them how to do it there selves. That's quite counter productive from the shops point of view.
Do you really think the shops cares that you can't do your own repairs?


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## Stonechat (19 Sep 2014)

User14044mountain said:


> I look after all my bikes - oil the chain and cables, adjust the gears when needed, replace cables, chains, cassettes etc etc and generally give them the TLC they need. They have their own room at home and are kept in the warm and dry. I can't ever think of taking one in for a service.
> 
> My younger son has had the same mountain bike since his undergraduate days. He leaves it outside, it is never maintained and never cleaned. Periodically the chain, brakes, gears, headset seize up. He does take in it for a service 'to get it working again'.
> 
> He's happy with his approach and I'm happy with mine.


Yes in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ,thee are the two characters, one does his own maintenance, the other has a BMW and relies on the Motorbike shop to do it, he highlights the different approaches


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## Globalti (19 Sep 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> They want to make money from fixing people's bikes, not teach them how to do it there selves. That's quite counter productive from the shops point of view.
> Do you really think the shops cares that you can't do your own repairs?



The bike shop owner who I've known for the last 26 years and especially since he set up his own shop is thoroughly peed off with having to fix other people's neglected bikes. He would rather be building bikes to sell and making a little more profit for his efforts. Repairing bikes keeps him just about solvent but he is so disillusioned with it that he's thinking of closing the shop down. He admits that he can't compete with internet sellers and he feels insulted when people buy parts on the web then expect him to fit them but he has to swallow his pride.


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## youngoldbloke (19 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> The bike shop owner who I've known for the last 26 years and especially since he set up his own shop is thoroughly peed off with having to fix other people's neglected bikes. He would rather be building bikes to sell and making a little more profit for his efforts. Repairing bikes keeps him just about solvent but he is so disillusioned with it that he's thinking of closing the shop down. He admits that he can't compete with internet sellers and *he feels insulted when people buy parts on the web then expect him to fit them but he has to swallow his pride*.


I don't blame him! Imagine taking your car for a service carrying your own oil, screenwash, coolant, wiper blades etc. All of which I could get online for a fraction of the price they will charge. I know what my local mechanics would say - just two words ..... If you are going to buy parts online you should learn to fit them yourself, or expect to pay a premium for fitting.


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## Longshot (19 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> Imagine taking your car for a service carrying your own oil, screenwash, coolant, wiper blades etc.



Imagine? It happens quite a lot. I know a number of people who refuse to pay inflated prices for oil especially from dealers/garages.


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## cd365 (19 Sep 2014)

I've taken my own parts to the garage I use. Never said a word about it. He makes enough in labour charges to not be bothered.


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## youngoldbloke (19 Sep 2014)

Longshot said:


> Imagine? It happens quite a lot. I know a number of people who refuse to pay inflated prices for oil especially from dealers/garages.


Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I have a good relationship with my local garage, and I don't think they would be quite as accommodating if I provided my own parts*. I do top up oil and fluids and replace bulbs, wiper blades etc myself between services though. *Think the same would apply to your LBS.


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## summerdays (19 Sep 2014)

I have taken some parts to my LBS when I wanted specific things fitted that they didn't stock (and weren't going to order either), but I've discussed it with them first. But I imagine I got other things at the same time from them.


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## cd365 (19 Sep 2014)

If the LBS wants to appear cheaper labour wise by selling you parts at a more expensive price than you can get online then just put the price of their labour up for externally sourced parts. As long as that is explained beforehand I don't see a problem


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## Roadrider48 (19 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> The bike shop owner who I've known for the last 26 years and especially since he set up his own shop is thoroughly peed off with having to fix other people's neglected bikes. He would rather be building bikes to sell and making a little more profit for his efforts. Repairing bikes keeps him just about solvent but he is so disillusioned with it that he's thinking of closing the shop down. He admits that he can't compete with internet sellers and he feels insulted when people buy parts on the web then expect him to fit them but he has to swallow his pride.


A bike shop owner peed off at having to fix bikes?That's a new on me.
But he's your friend so I don't doubt what you say.
I wasn't referring to buying your own parts and turning up at the shop expecting them to be fitted. I meant bike repairs in general.
I would imagine small bike shops will suffer with online sellers,so bike repairs I would of thought would be their bread and butter.
Some people like to fettle some people don't.


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## e-rider (19 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> Did you try asking the shop staff to show you how to do the adjustment? I'm sure they are as irked as you by this kind of problem and would be only too happy to show you.


some people simply just can't do this - it might seem very simple to you and me, but to others it's as difficult as inventing space travel. I know for a fact that some people should never even try as it could result in death! You could argue that perhaps these people shouldn't ride bikes at all (i.e. most triathletes etc).


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## mickle (19 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> I posted this in a thread on Technical Know How but I think the point is so important that I'm re-posting it here as a new thread, with a couple of edits:
> 
> The idea of doing a "service" on a bike is misguided; it's not a modern car where you only need to change oils and filters and not much else. A bicycle is a collection of delicate lightweight systems that need to be tweaked and kept in adjustment to get the best from them and the only way to do that is to learn to do it yourself.
> 
> ...


I disagree completely. The whole point of living together in a society is that it allows individuals to become specialists. Or would you rather we each brew our own beer and rear our own burgers?


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## youngoldbloke (19 Sep 2014)

mickle said:


> I disagree completely. The whole point of living together in a society is that it allows individuals to become specialists. Or would you rather we each brew our own beer and rear our own burgers?


I disagree completely. Unfortunately marketing has successfully persuaded individuals that specialists are required to perform many simple everyday tasks that used to be part of everyday life for the majority of people.


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## nickyboy (19 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> I disagree completely. Unfortunately marketing has successfully persuaded individuals that specialists are required to perform many simple everyday tasks that used to be part of everyday life for the majority of people.


But that isn't how society and economics works.
We all specialise in certain skills to a greater or lesser degree. This means we can do these skills better and faster than someone else. So we do that, get paid for that, then spend the money on buying in skills that other people have.
I can make more money in an hour than I can save by doing bike maintenance for an hour. So I get the bike maintenance guy to do that for me while I do what I'm good at.

And please don't start about the pleasure of maintaining your own bike. It isn't a pleasure for me


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## Colin_P (19 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> I disagree completely. Unfortunately marketing has successfully persuaded individuals that specialists are required to perform many simple everyday tasks that used to be part of everyday life for the majority of people.



And I agree completely.

It is like a giant pyramid scheme. Service industries do not create wealth. Truly specialised tasks excepted but for the mundane, having a go yourself has to be the right way. Is it bone idleness that afflicts many of us? Many will say they are too busy, busy doing what? Doing the mundane now and then helps to keep one grounded and in reality.

Awaits condemnation from those who are so busy being tied up in their own self importance.


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## John the Monkey (19 Sep 2014)

nickyboy said:


> And please don't start about the pleasure of maintaining your own bike. It isn't a pleasure for me


I quite like working on bikes, but freely admit to finding some of the other tasks folk have bemoaned us not having a bash at tedious or hazardous. A chacun son gout, and all that.


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## nickyboy (19 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> I quite like working on bikes, but freely admit to finding some of the other tasks folk have bemoaned us not having a bash at tedious or hazardous. A chacun son gout, and all that.



dans la nuit tout chat son gris

.........oh hang on, that's about something quite different


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## Cyclopathic (19 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> I quite like working on bikes, but freely admit to finding some of the other tasks folk have bemoaned us not having a bash at tedious or hazardous.* A chacun son gout,* and all that.


Everybody has gout?


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## Smokin Joe (19 Sep 2014)

Whether people take the trouble to do their own servicing is their business. Some can't be bothered and are happy to pay a shop to do it, good luck to them. But what I can't understand is the complete disinterest shown by many modern cyclists in the bike or how it works and how to carry out adjustments that a nine year could master in five minutes. Come on, for God's sake. If someone can't change an inner tube, adjust the slack out of a brake or gear cable or tighten something that has come loose I have no sympathy with them whatsoever if they get stuck in the middle of nowhere one bleak Sunday, out of range of a phone signal. In fact if they hold a driving licence I would question their right to it. The thought of sharing the roads with people who haven't a clue where the brake resevoir in their car is and rely on the garage to check the level every 20k service is very worrying.

There really is no excuse I can except for using any vehicle on the road, powered or not without the knowledge to make the most basic checks and adjustments. And it's beyond no-one to learn it, failure to do so is down to pure laziness, not lack of mechanical ability.


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## John the Monkey (19 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> Everybody has gout?


It's all the cake, I reckon. And the port. And the cheese. Well, you get the idea.


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## summerdays (19 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Whether people take the trouble to do their own servicing is their business. Some can't be bothered and are happy to pay a shop to do it, good luck to them. But what I can't understand is the complete disinterest shown by many modern cyclists in the bike or how it works and how to carry out adjustments that a nine year could master in five minutes. Come on, for God's sake. If someone can't change an inner tube, adjust the slack out of a brake or gear cable or tighten something that has come loose I have no sympathy with them whatsoever if they get stuck in the middle of nowhere one bleak Sunday, out of range of a phone signal. In fact if they hold a driving licence I would question their right to it. The thought of sharing the roads with people who haven't a clue where the brake resevoir in their car is and rely on the garage to check the level every 20k service is very worrying.
> 
> There really is no excuse I can except for using any vehicle on the road, powered or not without the knowledge to make the most basic checks and adjustments. And it's beyond no-one to learn it, failure to do so is down to pure laziness, not lack of mechanical ability.


I don't know, somehow I just don't have a mechanical mind, my cable has stretched and I know where to adjust it, but I've forgotten which way (again), and I will worry that I will make it worse of course. I will do it, but I will have to get a book out again, and work up to it, but it's at the annoying stage so it will need to be soon. I don't know why I don't pick it up, I didn't understand physics O-level either, though I learnt it off by rote and so got an A for it, whereas Chemistry seemed to come more naturally to me (all forgotten now). Different minds learn in different ways!


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## Smokin Joe (19 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> I don't know, somehow I just don't have a mechanical mind, my cable has stretched and I know where to adjust it, but I've forgotten which way (again), and I will worry that I will make it worse of course.


Turn it one way and if it goes even slacker turn it back the other way. You won't break it.

For the record, it's anti clockwise to take up the slack. All you need to know really as cables only ever stretch, they don't shrink.


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## summerdays (19 Sep 2014)

Yes but where are you standing when it's clockwise, cos that makes a difference, and they never tell you that bit! If I was guessing I would say standing behind the bike rotating the little bit clockwise, and that makes the derailleur move the same direction, as in further away from the bike? If you say yes I'll give it a go tomorrow


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## Roadrider48 (19 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Whether people take the trouble to do their own servicing is their business. Some can't be bothered and are happy to pay a shop to do it, good luck to them. But what I can't understand is the complete disinterest shown by many modern cyclists in the bike or how it works and how to carry out adjustments that a nine year could master in five minutes. Come on, for God's sake. If someone can't change an inner tube, adjust the slack out of a brake or gear cable or tighten something that has come loose I have no sympathy with them whatsoever if they get stuck in the middle of nowhere one bleak Sunday, out of range of a phone signal. In fact if they hold a driving licence I would question their right to it. The thought of sharing the roads with people who haven't a clue where the brake resevoir in their car is and rely on the garage to check the level every 20k service is very worrying.
> 
> There really is no excuse I can except for using any vehicle on the road, powered or not without the knowledge to make the most basic checks and adjustments. And it's beyond no-one to learn it, failure to do so is down to pure laziness, not lack of mechanical ability.


Some people just can't be bothered. There's nothing wrong with that.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Sep 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> Some people just can't be bothered. There's nothing wrong with that.


I just can't understand how anyone who claims to be a cyclist (Rather than a just bike user) can take zero interest in how his or her bicycle works at even the most basic level. I'm not talking about fitting headsets or gear systems, just the most simple of adjustments to keep things running sweet and safe.


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

I have to agree. I can't help finding out how it all works. At school I was more academic than hands on, but nowadays I just have to know how things work. I don't get why people wouldn't either?


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## youngoldbloke (19 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> Yes but where are you standing when it's clockwise, cos that makes a difference, and they never tell you that bit! If I was guessing I would say standing behind the bike rotating the little bit clockwise, and that makes the derailleur move the same direction, as in further away from the bike? If you say yes I'll give it a go tomorrow


You are looking down the cable away from the bars. Think 'tight to the right, loose to the left' - if you are tightening (screwing up) the adjuster you are in effect making the cable casing shorter, and the cable looser. If you are loosening (unscrewing) the adjuster (to the left, anticlockwise) you are in effect making the cable casing longer, and the cable tighter - 'taking up the slack'.


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## Simontm (19 Sep 2014)

There is a lot of elitism on this thread. Seriously, it is up to the cyclist whether they are comfortable fettling, filtering or fixing their bike. They are not 'bike users' because they struggle with mechs, they are cyclists because they ride an effing bike.

I know mechanics who struggle with the modern car let alone the driver without a computer degree and anyone who attacks other people's busy lives as being lazy are either unemployed, retired or really lucky with their work/life balance.

And I have yet to meet an LBS owner who objects to earning some money fixing someone's cable problems.

Anyone who decides to jump on a bike, whether a £100 quid beat-me-up or a £1000 show vehicle should be applauded whether their hands get greasy or not. 

Actually I called this elitist, as a geek I know I'm wrong. This is nerdish behaviour.


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## Roadrider48 (19 Sep 2014)

Simontm said:


> There is a lot of elitism on this thread. Seriously, it is up to the cyclist whether they are comfortable fettling, filtering or fixing their bike. They are not 'bike users' because they struggle with mechs, they are cyclists because they ride an effing bike.
> 
> I know mechanics who struggle with the modern car let alone the driver without a computer degree and anyone who attacks other people's busy lives as being lazy are either unemployed, retired or really lucky with their work/life balance.
> 
> ...


Spot on!
To say someone isn't a cyclist because they don't adjust their own brakes or oil their own chain is complete bollox.


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## swansonj (19 Sep 2014)

Simontm said:


> There is a lot of elitism on this thread. Seriously, it is up to the cyclist whether they are comfortable fettling, filtering or fixing their bike. They are not 'bike users' because they struggle with mechs, they are cyclists because they ride an effing bike.
> 
> I know mechanics who struggle with the modern car let alone the driver without a computer degree and anyone who attacks other people's busy lives as being lazy are either unemployed, retired or really lucky with their work/life balance.
> 
> ...


No, as you were, I think "elitist" is quite right.


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## cd365 (20 Sep 2014)

Hahaha @ eletism. I learnt to do most things to a bicycle as a child in a 70s, I had to coming from a not very well off working class family. I recently helped a young lad about 13 from the "rough estate" next to me, he had a puncture, saw me cycle home and asked if he could borrow a pump and some tools to get his wheel off. I took the wheel and tyre off, he fixed the puncture (far bettr than I would of) and I sorted the rest out.

If I'm asked for help again I will tell him fixing it himself is eletist and he must take it to his LBS. Of which there are none near me.


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## Cyclopathic (20 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> I just can't understand how anyone who claims to be a cyclist (Rather than a just bike user) can take zero interest in how his or her bicycle works at even the most basic level. I'm not talking about fitting headsets or gear systems, just the most simple of adjustments to keep things running sweet and safe.


I know. I've even seen some obviously over privileged riders with all the lycra kit and really expensive bikes, riding around in huge groups, who even have some lackies following them around in cars with spare wheels and food and drink and even spare bikes. They've got no business being on the roads!


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## Cyclopathic (20 Sep 2014)

cd365 said:


> Hahaha @ eletism. I learnt to do most things to a bicycle as a child in a 70s, I had to coming from a not very well off working class family. I recently helped a young lad about 13 from the "rough estate" next to me, he had a puncture, saw me cycle home and asked if he could borrow a pump and some tools to get his wheel off. I took the wheel and tyre off, he fixed the puncture (far bettr than I would of) and I sorted the rest out.
> 
> If I'm asked for help again I will tell him fixing it himself is eletist and he must take it to his LBS. Of which there are none near me.


No one has said fixing your own bike is elitist. Also you don't have to be from the ruling elite to be an elitist on a certain subject. That's not what it means in this context.


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## mickle (20 Sep 2014)

I'm a well known nerd , yet even I, with access to a fully equipped workshop, do not build my own wheels nor replace the guts of internal geared hubs. Because there are better folks than me at it and I want it done proper. 
Having the skills to work on your own bike is admirable and desirable and should be encouraged, but its borderline offensive to suggest that someone is in any way not a 'proper' cyclist if they can't. It's just this sort of elitist bullsh!t that discourages people from getting involved in cycling.


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## Globalti (20 Sep 2014)

It's not about elitism or anything else, it's about the pleasure of riding a bicycle that's in perfect running order and is doing the job silently and efficiently. There's joy in owning a reliable, well-worn piece of equipment, be it a bicycle or a woodworking tool or a serviceable vehicle like an old Land Rover. that bears honourable scars of hard service but is still in perfect mechanical order. The near-crime is in wilfully neglecting that equipment then expressing surprise that it has let you down.


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## Windassisted (20 Sep 2014)

Makes the difference between the enthusiastic cyclist and the type you see on a beat up heap of scrap , riding with his kipper feet and stuck out knees because his saddle is set too low and wobbling all over the road due to being in a wrong gear cos the cable has broken


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## youngoldbloke (20 Sep 2014)

nickyboy said:


> But that isn't how society and economics works.
> We all specialise in certain skills to a greater or lesser degree. This means we can do these skills better and faster than someone else. So we do that, get paid for that, then spend the money on buying in skills that other people have.
> *I can make more money in an hour than I can save by doing bike maintenance for an hour.* So I get the bike maintenance guy to do that for me while I do what I'm good at.
> 
> And please don't start about the pleasure of maintaining your own bike. It isn't a pleasure for me


My LBS charges £10 for 15 minutes (minimum charge), plus parts (at full rrp). It is over 10 miles away/ 20 minutes driving. The city council charges lots of money to park any where nearby. So .. how much money would I have to generate to cover the costs incurred? A hell of a lot more than £40, thats for sure. Maybe the 'elite' that posters are referring to are those that can afford the services of an LBS.


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## Roadrider48 (20 Sep 2014)

If you ride a bike your're a cyclist!


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## youngoldbloke (20 Sep 2014)

If you play a violin you're a violinist, if you kick a ball you're a footballer ........


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## Smokin Joe (20 Sep 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> If you ride a bike your're a cyclist!


But if you can't adjust a cable or change an inner tube you should be ashamed to admit it.


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## swansonj (20 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> But if you can't adjust a cable or change an inner tube you should be ashamed to admit it.


You really don't give up, do you....


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## Smokin Joe (20 Sep 2014)

swansonj said:


> You really don't give up, do you....


Nah, I cut my teeth on the helmet threads. Nobody gives up there.


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## welsh dragon (20 Sep 2014)

Are we there yet?


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## CopperBrompton (20 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> But if you can't adjust a cable or change an inner tube you should be ashamed to admit it.


Quite right. Similarly, if you can't write a simple piece of javascript, you have no business using a computer; if you can't enrich the fuel mixture, you should be ashamed to fly on a plane; and if you can't even do the simplest chromakey cutout, you shouldn't be watching movies.


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## John the Monkey (20 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> I just can't understand how anyone who claims to be a cyclist (Rather than a just bike user) can take zero interest in how his or her bicycle works at even the most basic level. I'm not talking about fitting headsets or gear systems, just the most simple of adjustments to keep things running sweet and safe.



It's not the way I'd like to do my cycling, but isn't the key just to enjoy it, however that comes about?

If our hypothetical cyclist/bike rider (delete to preference) just wants to ride & have someone else take care of the oily stuff, WHATEVER, as the young people say.


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## PpPete (20 Sep 2014)

For once I find myself in agreement with Smokin' (and the OP) 
About the only thing I go to LBS for is removing and refitting crown races, or chasing out BB threads. (both of which need v. expensive tools) I can do (and have done) pretty much everything else.

Still, as JTM says, each to their own.


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## youngoldbloke (21 Sep 2014)

Trikeman said:


> Quite right. Similarly, if you can't write a simple piece of javascript, you have no business using a computer; if you can't enrich the fuel mixture, you should be ashamed to fly on a plane; and if you can't even do the simplest chromakey cutout, you shouldn't be watching movies.


Not the same at all - think about it. Don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't ride a bike if you can't fix a puncture, just that it doesn't require great skill or knowledge, or much precious money earning time, to perform simple maintenanceand repairs.


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## Cyclopathic (21 Sep 2014)

Roadrider48 said:


> If you ride a bike your're a cyclist!


Ah, but some people are only cyclists when they are on a bike.


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## Cyclopathic (21 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> But if you can't adjust a cable or change an inner tube you should be ashamed to admit it.


But then how could you ever face asking some one to show you how to do it? I've got any number of things in my house that if they go wrong I haven't got a clue how to fix. Somewhere there is likely a plumbers forum on which they are debating the stupid idiot who didn't know how to fix a ball cock or even which one to order or where to get it from. They are possibly saying that he should be ashamed not to know how to fix the most basic and necessary piece of equipment in the house.


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## summerdays (21 Sep 2014)

I don't entirely agree with saying that if you can't fix a puncture you shouldn't ride, for some with limited mobility/strength they may be unable to mend a puncture but they can still cycle, it just requires a backup plan, even if it was just being able to get a passer by to do it or phone a taxi.

I want as few barriers as possible to stop people from getting on a bike.


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## youngoldbloke (21 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> I don't entirely agree with that, *for some with limited mobility/strength they may be unable to mend a puncture but they can still cycle, it just requires a backup plan, even if it was just being able to get a passer by to do it or phone a taxi.*


- of course! Interestingly I was skimming through the Bikeability course content the other day, and IIRC simple repairs and maintenance are covered.


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## summerdays (21 Sep 2014)

After I wrote it I remembered the incredible video of the bloke who used his teeth to change a tyre.


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## swansonj (21 Sep 2014)

PpPete said:


> For once I find myself in agreement with Smokin' (and the OP)
> .....
> Still, as JTM says, each to their own.


I think, when you say "each to their own", you are in fact differentiating yourself from others on this thread. The view is being put that if you choose not to acquire the knowledge to do your own maintenance, you are not a proper cyclist, and you should be ashamed; that is hardly "each to their own".


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## Roadrider48 (21 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> Ah, but some people are only cyclists when they are on a bike.


Unless you're a trick cyclist.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Sep 2014)

Trikeman said:


> Quite right. Similarly, if you can't write a simple piece of javascript, you have no business using a computer; if you can't enrich the fuel mixture, you should be ashamed to fly on a plane; and if you can't even do the simplest chromakey cutout, you shouldn't be watching movies.


Different thing entirely, those are things that require a degree of technical knowledge. If someone finds stripdowns of the bike, such as a bottom bracket or headset too daunting I fully understand and would never criticise them for it (My mother showed me how to take a bottom bracket apart and replace the bearings). But I cannot comprehend how every cyclist isn't fully aware of how to adjust the slack on a brake cable (An important safety issue) or a gear cable, two jobs that take seconds and require no manual skills at all. Or how they'd risk leaving themselves stranded because they don't know how to change an inner tube or how to tighten a bolt.

And as I've said before, most of these people also drive. Brake fluid, oil and water levels? Tyre pressures? The thought of zooming round the M25 with people whose bonnet hasn't been opened since the last MoT...


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## welsh dragon (21 Sep 2014)

OMG  i'm supposed to open that thing at the front of my car and look INSIDE?


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## swansonj (21 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> *But I cannot comprehend* how every cyclist isn't fully aware of how to adjust the slack on a brake cable (An important safety issue) or a gear cable, two jobs that take seconds and require no manual skills at all. Or how they'd risk leaving themselves stranded because they don't know how to change an inner tube or how to tighten a bolt.


Yup, that, I think,is the problem in a nutshell...


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## Cyclopathic (21 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Different thing entirely, those are things that require a degree of technical knowledge. If someone finds stripdowns of the bike, such as a bottom bracket or headset too daunting I fully understand and would never criticise them for it (My mother showed me how to take a bottom bracket apart and replace the bearings). But I cannot comprehend how every cyclist isn't fully aware of how to adjust the slack on a brake cable (An important safety issue) or a gear cable, two jobs that take seconds and require no manual skills at all. Or how they'd risk leaving themselves stranded because they don't know how to change an inner tube or how to tighten a bolt.
> 
> And as I've said before, most of these people also drive. Brake fluid, oil and water levels? Tyre pressures? The thought of zooming round the M25 with people whose bonnet hasn't been opened since the last MoT...


What about toilets then? They're not massively complicated but a lot of people wouldn't know how to do a minor fix.


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## Cyclopathic (21 Sep 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> OMG  i'm supposed to open that thing at the front of my car and look INSIDE?


Nah. If it was built in the last 5 years or so it's probably a sealed unit.


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## welsh dragon (21 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> Nah. If it was built in the last 5 years or so it's probably a sealed unit.



Its 3 years old, and I know where the bonet release catch is because I put windscreen wash in my car, but to find the spark plugs you'd need a degree in mechanical engineering. I have a husband who checks the oil.

He also fettles my bike as well. I admit to being a complete luddite when it comes to things like that, so I just tell Mr WD what the problem is and he fixes it.


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## CopperBrompton (21 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> But I cannot comprehend how every cyclist isn't fully aware of how to adjust the slack on a brake cable (An important safety issue) or a gear cable, two jobs that take seconds and require no manual skills at all.


I believe you can't comprehend it, but it isn't true they require no skill. I assure you I once spent 20 frustrating minutes trying to correctly adjust a gear cable before giving up and taking it to a LBS.

I might find it equally incomprehensible that someone can't follow the 3-2-1 rule in backing up their data, but the reality is that different people have different skillsets. 

Cycling is achieved by riding a bike. Everything else is optional.


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## summerdays (22 Sep 2014)

youngoldbloke said:


> You are looking down the cable away from the bars. Think 'tight to the right, loose to the left' - if you are tightening (screwing up) the adjuster you are in effect making the cable casing shorter, and the cable looser. If you are loosening (unscrewing) the adjuster (to the left, anticlockwise) you are in effect making the cable casing longer, and the cable tighter - 'taking up the slack'.


Ok took my time getting around to doing it. In the end I couldn't get the barrel adjuster by the derailleur to shift, so decided to use the one on the handlebars. If I was sitting on the bike I pushed the adjuster forwards a bit would that be right? Seems ok.


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## youngoldbloke (22 Sep 2014)

If it works - yes. Straight bars? Thumb shifters? I'm not the guy to ask.


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Sep 2014)

summerdays said:


> Ok took my time getting around to doing it. In the end I couldn't get the barrel adjuster by the derailleur to shift, so decided to use the one on the handlebars. If I was sitting on the bike I pushed the adjuster forwards a bit would that be right? Seems ok.


Yes, that would be tighten (on a flat bar). Works for brakes too.


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## summerdays (22 Sep 2014)

Brakes are hydraulic so don't need to adjust those, though I'm fine with adjusting V brakes.

And I'm so hopeless I ended up getting Mr Summerdays to put air in my back tyre as the valve seemed to not let air in. Of course the first time he tried there wasn't a problem. I'd already done the front one so it's not that I can't do them at all.

And yes flat bar with thumb shifters. Ah well I don't think it is adjusted perfectly but riding better than it was, ( not needing to do an over shift to get it to the right gear). Thanks for your help


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## threebikesmcginty (22 Sep 2014)

John the Monkey said:


> If our hypothetical cyclist/bike rider (delete to preference) just wants to ride & have someone else take care of the oily stuff, *WHATEVER, as the young people say*.



Actually it's just 'whatevs' now, less effort required to say it.


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## John the Monkey (22 Sep 2014)

threebikesmcginty said:


> Actually it's just 'whatevs' now, less effort required to say it.


Actually, they're saying "WEVS". Bare less effort tho, innit bruv.

I feel old.


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## bowtomephil (23 Sep 2014)

I wanted to change a belt in an old hoover, when I put it back together I had one part on the floor, no idea what it was or where it went, it cost me £50 to get it fixed. 
I have done similiar things building DIY furniture with instructions, upside down, back to front etc.

My bike shop gives a free service yearly if you buy the bike from them, no brainer, I take it it, it gets fixed, I can then ride the next day. There is no guarantee if I touch it that I would be able to ride it ever again.

I like my way : )


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## summerdays (23 Sep 2014)

bowtomephil said:


> I wanted to change a belt in an old hoover, when I put it back together I had one part on the floor, no idea what it was or where it went, it cost me £50 to get it fixed.
> I have done similiar things building DIY furniture with instructions, upside down, back to front etc.
> 
> My bike shop gives a free service yearly if you buy the bike from them, no brainer, I take it it, it gets fixed, I can then ride the next day. There is no guarantee if I touch it that I would be able to ride it ever again.
> ...


Mr Summerdays, way way back in our relationship, decided that he and his mate could come round and fix the vacuum (an old cylinder one), that was smoking badly. They took all the bits out and couldn't get them all back in again. As they put it, they had stopped it smoking, though it now didn't suck either. The landlord checked it in our presence and said he would replace it since it didn't work. My eyes kept being drawn to the closed cupboard behind his head where the extra parts were hiding.

Actually he's "fixed" a number of my vacuums since, I've had quite a few, it would help if he didn't ask them to clear up after his DIY things. He's good at fixing other things but not vacuums!


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## Smokin Joe (23 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> What about toilets then? They're not massively complicated but a lot of people wouldn't know how to do a minor fix.


I'm not talking about "Fixing" things, but making minor tool free adjustment on bikes and checking fluid levels on cars.


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## Stonechat (24 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> What about toilets then? They're not massively complicated but a lot of people wouldn't know how to do a minor fix.


YEs we had a syphon go, and I changed it for one of those flap type valves, cost of the whole job about 20 instead of 60 + fpr a plumber


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## Cyclopathic (24 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> I'm not talking about "Fixing" things, but making minor tool free adjustment on bikes and checking fluid levels on cars.


There is a balance/valve adjuster on some ball cocks that can be adjusted as simply as any bike cable. A lot of appliances are like that in some way. Are we expected to know how to fix everything? It's obviously good if one can but not everybody has the time, know how or inclination to find out how to fix their bog, car or bike and that is absolutely ok. There are other people who can. Some people don't want to fix things.

I would also guess that, generally speaking, the sort of person who really knows nothing about fixing a minor thing on a bike is not likely to be using their bikes for very long journeys and is probably not going to be stranded miles from civilisation.


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## Cyclopathic (24 Sep 2014)

Stonechat said:


> YEs we had a syphon go, and I changed it for one of those flap type valves, cost of the whole job about 20 instead of 60 + fpr a plumber


What's a syphon?


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## Globalti (24 Sep 2014)

Fixing a WC siphon or a bike or any other mechanical device is a question of being able to work out the operation of the mechanism and then deduct the reason why it's failing. Then it's a matter of having some understanding of how things are manufactured and assembled, being able to disassemble it and find a replacement part then fit that part. I accept that probably less than half the population has that ability and if they don't, it's better to pay somebody who does because a mistake can cost even more. 

But my original post was on the fallacy of the idea of a one-off, cure-it-all "service" on a bicycle, which is a relatively delicate collection of systems pared down to the minimum weight. On an old roadster with rod brakes, a 3-speed hub and enclosed chain there would seldom be any need for adjustment and the bike could be ridden for hundreds of miles with no attention. However it was a very heavy bike and modern lightweight bikes have chains and cables, which are affected by dirt and water and derailleurs that need milimetre-perfect adjustment at the end of cables that stretch, running in housings that compress. So a modern bike needs frequent adjustment and attention to keep running at its best and a six-monthly or annual service isn't enough for that. Keeping a well-used bike running properly is a constant process of adjustment, replacement and cleaning and lubrication.


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## CopperBrompton (24 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> I would also guess that, generally speaking, the sort of person who really knows nothing about fixing a minor thing on a bike is not likely to be using their bikes for very long journeys and is probably not going to be stranded miles from civilisation.


You might be wrong about that. :-) My longest journey to date was 1,000 miles, but I do aim to have a more mechanically literate friend along for these rides ...


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## Smokin Joe (24 Sep 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> I would also guess that, generally speaking, the sort of person who really knows nothing about fixing a minor thing on a bike is not likely to be using their bikes for very long journeys and is probably not going to be stranded miles from civilisation.



Ever ridden a sportive and come across someone with 3 or 4k worth of bike complaining it needs a service because the gears won't change properly? Or having to get help to change a tube?


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## Cyclopathic (24 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Ever ridden a sportive and come across someone with 3 or 4k worth of bike complaining it needs a service because the gears won't change properly? Or having to get help to change a tube?


I refer you to the word "generally" in my post.


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## cd365 (24 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Ever ridden a sportive and come across someone with 3 or 4k worth of bike complaining it needs a service because the gears won't change properly? Or having to get help to change a tube?


The phrase "all the gear no f'in idea" springs to mind!


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## John the Monkey (24 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Ever ridden a sportive and come across someone with 3 or 4k worth of bike complaining it needs a service because the gears won't change properly? Or having to get help to change a tube?


OTOH, I've not touched the gearing on my Giant since I set it up - whilst I'm capable of sorting that out, I've never needed to. I can see a situation where a similar setup could be "serviced" and be left alone until a yearly/bi-yearly cable change at the LBS as part of the "service".

If you fit a tough tyre like a Durano, say, you might not need to worry about unplanned deflations either...

(That said, I used to ride a sportive a year - I've slacked off a bit since then).


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## G3CWI (24 Sep 2014)

Smokin Joe said:


> Ever ridden a sportive and come across someone with 3 or 4k worth of bike complaining it needs a service because the gears won't change properly? Or having to get help to change a tube?



....you mean like the Pro Cyclists?


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## steveindenmark (25 Sep 2014)

If any of my bikes go into my LBS they are gleaming. I just could not hand them over in any other condition.


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## jonny jeez (25 Sep 2014)

Globalti said:


> _"There are some things I do myself and some that I prefer the shop to do. Therefore I tend to put the bikes in the shop once a year for a full service, and keep it fettled myself in the meantime."_
> 
> But what do they do at the "full service" that you can't?


For me...although not in a service, these are jobs I will not tackle

Tune my wheel, I don't have a spoke tension meter or a good ear for a tune so will not attempt a wholesale spoke tightening / wheel straightening on my own for fear of adjusting ALL my spokes to a too high a tension....I will adjust individual spokes but not a whole wheel...I get through a rear rim a year.

Bottom bracket lube, no tools for the job and I hate the idea of buggering up the tread on the frame.

Servicing shifters, like actually opening those suckers up.

everything else I am happy to do.

However, I don't share your view, it feels a little elitist, like telling people they should't ride if they cant service their bikes. I drive a car and a motorcycle...I even use a loo occasionally and I don't know how to take any of them apart.

I prescribe to a view that its better to support my LBS, even if they make no money they retain loyal customers who, like me, spend far too much cash in their shops, often under their recommendation.


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## Yorksman (28 Sep 2014)

Even supermen can't do it:


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## glenn forger (29 Sep 2014)

Wheel-trueing is an apprenticed trade, the novices endure ten years of training and privation, heads and scrotums shaved, stuffed into potato sacks and beaten with burlap ropes. They would be insulted if I were to meddle with my wheels.


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## Stonechat (29 Sep 2014)

Well I will and have trued minor wobbles, but really wonky wheels beyond my ability


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## Salty seadog (7 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> I know a couple of excellent mechanics at my LBSs who certainly know more than me but I would not expect them to be able to perform routine maintenance or adjustments, which is the rider's job.




Absolutely spot on.....


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## Lee_M (7 Aug 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Different thing entirely, those are things that require a degree of technical knowledge. If someone finds stripdowns of the bike, such as a bottom bracket or headset too daunting I fully understand and would never criticise them for it (My mother showed me how to take a bottom bracket apart and replace the bearings). But I cannot comprehend how every cyclist isn't fully aware of how to adjust the slack on a brake cable (An important safety issue) or a gear cable, two jobs that take seconds and require no manual skills at all. Or how they'd risk leaving themselves stranded because they don't know how to change an inner tube or how to tighten a bolt.
> 
> And as I've said before, most of these people also drive. Brake fluid, oil and water levels? Tyre pressures? The thought of zooming round the M25 with people whose bonnet hasn't been opened since the last MoT...



i opened my bonnet last week to fill up the washer fluid. First time I've opened it in 3 years. I only did it because I was about to drive 250 miles otherwise i wouldnt have bothered


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## Ajax Bay (7 Aug 2016)

Holy thread resurrection


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## CanucksTraveller (7 Aug 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> Holy thread resurrection



Indeed. Great thread nonetheless, and worth digging up! Some marvellous content that's worth revisiting, I've enjoyed it. 

My view is that bike maintenance isn't a black or white subject of can or cannot do, it's an entire sliding scale of abilities. If you can do the job in question and are confident, great. You're saving money and you're feeling chuffed with yourself, and deservedly so. I love that feeling. 
If you can't do it or are less confident, give it to the bike shop, that's what shop mechanics exist for. There is minor stuff that scares me which other members would scoff at (for example gear adjustment, I've screwed up a whole derailleur setup before and I'll do it again if you threaten me), and there's stuff that I find easy that others would have trouble with. Youtube has probably helped us all in recent years, but the LBS mechanic has also been a fillip of most of us.


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## GrumpyGregry (7 Aug 2016)

Crackle said:


> Actually, I thought it was a great book but I don't recall a chapter on bicycle gears.


Jets. I remember lots of talk about carb jets on boxer twin BMWs. The fettling of which should be the last thing an amateur wrench undertakes.

Oddly my own R100RS was the most maintenance free mo'bike I have ever owned.


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## Globalti (9 Aug 2016)

I expect it was; motorcycle engine technology had moved a long way from the old boxer twins by the time the 3 and 4 cylinder in-line engines came out. I may be wrong but those engines must have a single carb or even fuel injection for the three or four pots, meaning it's easier to achieve uniform carburation, whereas the poor old boxers had two primitive carburettors on opposite sides of the engine, which vibrated like a tractor when I rode a 750 boxer.


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## glenn forger (9 Aug 2016)

What if you are confident, yet inept? Asking for a friend.


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## Profpointy (9 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> I expect it was; motorcycle engine technology had moved a long way from the old boxer twins by the time the 3 and 4 cylinder in-line engines came out. I may be wrong but those engines must have a single carb or even fuel injection for the three or four pots, meaning it's easier to achieve uniform carburation, whereas the poor old boxers had two primitive carburettors on opposite sides of the engine, which vibrated like a tractor when I rode a 750 boxer.



I doubt if that's right. The old BMW twins had (what looked like anyway) the German equivalent of the SUs and Strombergs on the old minis and so on. Balancing a pair of that kind of carbureter is pretty easy - if my old Triumph Vitesse was anything to go by. The 3 and 4 cylinder motorcycles typically had a fixed jet carb per cylinder. All fuel injection these days


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## keithmac (10 Aug 2016)

I'm a motorcycle mechanic and love setting up old BMW's (there's deffinitely a knack to it), had a 1975 Triumph triple in which needed the carbs stripping due to a bodge job before hand (which customer had paid good money for), a real job to setup but rewarding.

Nowadays it's all extremely complicated Electronic Fuel Injection, abs/ asr/ chassis control. If you don't have the correct diagnostics you are severely limited to what you can achieve (we have £3000+ of multi make diagnostics).

Saying all that the times I've riden a bike in for service to find both tyres virtually flat and the chain hanging off is unreal, I mainly put down to laziness..


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## GuyBoden (10 Aug 2016)

In the old days, when you were miles from home, you needed to be able to fix your own bike to get back home. Nowadays, I've seen riders with a puncture phone their girlfriend to pick them up and drive them home...........


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## MarquisMatsugae (10 Aug 2016)

You Tube has been my learned friend for a few years.
You are correct ,only you know when your bike feels right or not


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## tyred (10 Aug 2016)

GuyBoden said:


> In the old days, when you were miles from home, you needed to be able to fix your own bike to get back home. Nowadays, I've seen riders with a puncture phone their girlfriend to pick them up and drive them home...........


Those of us who don't have a girlfriend still need to be able to fix our bikes to get back home!


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## MarquisMatsugae (10 Aug 2016)

tyred said:


> Those of us who don't have a girlfriend still need to be able to fix our bikes to get back home!


Phone your boyfriend then ?


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## Venod (10 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> Not all bike mechanics are muppets; I know a couple of excellent mechanics at my LBSs who certainly know more than me but I would not expect them to be able to perform routine maintenance or adjustments, which is the rider's job



I did a 5 year apprenticeship and spent a lot of my working life mending things far more complicated than bicycles, I enjoy building them more than maintaining them, but the maintenace has to be done, I would expect the LBS mechanic to be able to perform routine maintenance for the people who can't or just don't want to do it themselves.

Or did you mean, I would not expect them to perform routine maintenance or adjustments


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## raleighnut (10 Aug 2016)

Profpointy said:


> I doubt if that's right. The old BMW twins had (what looked like anyway) the German equivalent of the SUs and Strombergs on the old minis and so on. Balancing a pair of that kind of carbureter is pretty easy - if my old Triumph Vitesse was anything to go by. The 3 and 4 cylinder motorcycles typically had a fixed jet carb per cylinder. All fuel injection these days


Bing CV carbs, more similar to the Stromberg than the SU, a good mechanic can set em up (balance them) by ear.


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## hopless500 (10 Aug 2016)

User13710 said:


> But only if you have an excess of the will to live to get rid of.


100% agree. I tried again for the 2nd time last year. I think having my toenails hoiked off with pliers would have been more entertaining.


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## Andy_R (10 Aug 2016)

If you can't adjust your brake/gear barrel adjusters on the fly (ie whilst still riding) you should have your cyclist badge removed forcibly.....eg "Oooo...gear change sounds a bit clicky...time to tweak before the next hill"


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## Shut Up Legs (10 Aug 2016)

Is it wrong of me, that whenever seeing this thread's title, I have a mental image of a horse "servicing" another horse?


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## Ajax Bay (10 Aug 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> Is it wrong


Yes; very 'wrong' and a mite worrying. Easy on that saddle.


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## Globalti (11 Aug 2016)

Andy_R said:


> If you can't adjust your brake/gear barrel adjusters on the fly (ie whilst still riding) you should have your cyclist badge removed forcibly.....eg "Oooo...gear change sounds a bit clicky...time to tweak before the next hill"



Er.... this attempt at sarcasm fails because if you've got in-lne cable adjusters it's perfectly possible to adjust your gears on the fly. Anybody can do this if they've a feel for the gears and an ear for the noise they make. And with a bit of an effort you can also adjust your brakes if you really want.


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## Andy_R (11 Aug 2016)

Globalti said:


> Er.... this attempt at sarcasm fails because if you've got in-lne cable adjusters it's perfectly possible to adjust your gears on the fly. Anybody can do this if they've a feel for the gears and an ear for the noise they make. And with a bit of an effort you can also adjust your brakes if you really want.


It's not an attempt at sarcasm..it's a valid (from my point of view anyway) point. Bikes are meant to be easily adjusted and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn how to adjust them -- well perhaps they should start walking.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

I used to adjust gears on the fly, the best way imho as you can dial it in properly as you ride

I have a single speed now and a Nuvinci hubbed bike so that's one less thing to worry about!.


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## CopperBrompton (11 Aug 2016)

Andy_R said:


> If you can't adjust your brake/gear barrel adjusters on the fly (ie whilst still riding) you should have your cyclist badge removed forcibly.....eg "Oooo...gear change sounds a bit clicky...time to tweak before the next hill"


You're not a Real Cyclist unless you can fix a puncture in your rear tyre while still riding.


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## summerdays (11 Aug 2016)

Trikeman said:


> You're not a Real Cyclist unless you can fix a puncture in your rear tyre while still riding.


 And in a marathon plus tyre too


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## Dogtrousers (11 Aug 2016)

Adjusting gears on the fly? Isn't that what friction shifters do?

Adjusting brakes on the fly? I do that too. Squeeze gently. Squeeze hard.


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## MarquisMatsugae (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> I used to adjust gears on the fly, the best way imho as you can dial it in properly as you ride
> 
> I have a single speed now and a Nuvinci hubbed bike so that's one less thing to worry about!.



Nice.
Pictures or you don't have one !!!!


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## Blue Hills (11 Aug 2016)

I think there is a lot of sense in the original post.

Bikes can start to run out of adjustment soon after a "service". What do you do then? - take it in for another one?

Donkeys years ago I was one to possibly take a bike into the bikeshop if the gears weren't indexing properly. I well remember taking it in once. After one service things were just as bad. Called the bike shop and asked if they had actually given it a test ride after their "adjustment". Had a closer look and discovered for myself why the front changer wasn't working properly - bottle cage had broken at a metal join, pushing against the mech! No way would it have worked.


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## keithmac (11 Aug 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Nice.
> Pictures or you don't have one !!!!



Gtech single speed Carbon Drive, 







Carrera Nuvinci Hubbed Mid drive under construction,











Both eBikes unfortunately..


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## Bollo (11 Aug 2016)

Andy_R said:


> If you can't adjust your brake/gear barrel adjusters on the fly (ie whilst still riding) you should have your cyclist badge removed forcibly.....eg "Oooo...gear change sounds a bit clicky...time to tweak before the next hill"


I tried adjusting my gears on the fly but the laptop kept slipping off the handlebars.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Aug 2016)

Using the DT adjusters on the move can be a bit dangerous to the fingernails if the guides are set low on the tube.

Don't ask me how I know


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## MarquisMatsugae (11 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Gtech single speed Carbon Drive,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with that friend,as long as you are out on a bike,it's all good .
I'm loving the stout fork on the G-Tech,and the second one has what looks like a Sektor fork(which I use)


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## Dogtrousers (11 Aug 2016)

I think the OP is a classic example of "I do things this way, and it works" (perfectly reasonable) "therefore it is the one true way" (somewhat less reasonable).

We see it all the time, often very well-intentioned, "you should do/wear/use this" from people who quite successfully do/wear/use "this" but have never considered that there might be other quite successful ways of going about things.


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## CopperBrompton (12 Aug 2016)

It's really quite simple: everyone should just do things exactly the way I do.


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## smutchin (12 Aug 2016)

I get @Globalti's point - keeping your gears and brakes well adjusted is routine maintenance in much the same way as topping up your windscreen washer reservoir. But I think of 'servicing' as being more of an overhaul, replacing worn out parts such as chains, cassettes, brake blocks, cables, bottom brackets. For people who don't do their own regular maintenance (whatever the reason), getting an annual service of this kind might not be such a bad idea. 

For anyone who finds keeping their gears well adjusted a challenge, there's a new device that uses an iPhone app to help you adjust your rear mech alignment. I've used it and it's actually pretty good - I've always managed fine without such a device but for those who are less confident, it might be worth trying. 
http://ottodesignworks.com/


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## Dogtrousers (12 Aug 2016)

I know this is a really old thread, so I just re read the OP:

Pompous, condescending and wrong.


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## cd365 (12 Aug 2016)

smutchin said:


> I get @Globalti's point - keeping your gears and brakes well adjusted is routine maintenance in much the same way as topping up your windscreen washer reservoir. But I think of 'servicing' as being more of an overhaul, replacing worn out parts such as chains, cassettes, brake blocks, cables, bottom brackets. For people who don't do their own regular maintenance (whatever the reason), getting an annual service of this kind might not be such a bad idea.
> 
> For anyone who finds keeping their gears well adjusted a challenge, there's a new device that uses an iPhone app to help you adjust your rear mech alignment. I've used it and it's actually pretty good - I've always managed fine without such a device but for those who are less confident, it might be worth trying.
> http://ottodesignworks.com/


Seems expensive for what it is though! You buy the parts then you pay a subscription for the iPhone software.


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## smutchin (12 Aug 2016)

cd365 said:


> Seems expensive for what it is though! You buy the parts then you pay a subscription for the iPhone software.



I think the subscription service is optional - only needed if you want the full range of features. I agree it's not cheap for what it is, but it works, which might make it worthwhile for some people.


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## keithmac (12 Aug 2016)

MarquisMatsugae said:


> Nothing wrong with that friend,as long as you are out on a bike,it's all good .
> I'm loving the stout fork on the G-Tech,and the second one has what looks like a Sektor fork(which I use)



Yeh, the Gtech rides really well!, I had to fit a Suntour NCX seatpost though just to keep my back happy.

The Carrera has Rock Shox on the front and may treat it to an NCX post as well.

I've been biking over 30 years now, bought the Gtech to try something a bit different a month ago and I'm glad I did!.


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## Blue Hills (12 Aug 2016)

For anyone who wants to keep their gears adjusted (and this is from someone who used to vaguely turn things this way and that in the hope of straying across the answer) i recommend the park tools method. As outlined in the big blue book of bicycle maintenance (various editions) and i think for free on the website. First step is to deliberately send all your gears out of step/all to buggery (wonderful yorkshire/lancashire phrase) and from there on in it's all uphill. Apart from that, switch to 8 speed (times 3) and then things only rarely slip out of adjustment and are soon fixed.


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## Fnaar (12 Aug 2016)

I was that chap who didn't know how to do much beyond fix a puncture. In fact, I was looking for information on headsets when I found the wonderful world of cycling forums.
Thanks to advice on here, YouTube and elsewhere on the Web, my bikes now rarely go to a bike shop.
The other day, I was in a cafe /bikeshop and there was a bloke in there in the middle of his ride as his (expensive looking) bike had a derailleur problem. All it needed was a small adjustment of one of the limit screws.
Four or five years ago I might have been that chap (without the expensive bike tho).
I'm all for encouraging people to learn, but there's no harm in being a novice.
We all have to start somewhere.


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## keithmac (12 Aug 2016)

It's slighly strange to me, I can't remember anyone else fixing my bike when I was young and I'm trying to get my 9 year old lad self sufficient for the main part.

I've always told my 2 children try your best, if they mess things up fair enough but at least they've had a go!.


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## sackville d (13 Aug 2016)

I love a good fettle but I run up against a wall when it comes to wheels. For that there is my LBS.

Anyhoo, watch this YT clip and you may never need to take your bike for a _service _again 

View: https://youtu.be/SkzvfCaIbyQ


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## cyberknight (13 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> It's one of those books that most people only read about half way ... And I'm one.


I've read it a few times,try Carlos Castaneda 's books on Mexican Indian peyote induced trances for real weird.
I have pretty much the same approach to bikes as you,headsets are about the only thing I don't do due to tools.


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## Bollo (13 Aug 2016)

I think bikes are going the way of cars in that components are becoming more integrated and less user-serviceable. I don't fundamentally have a problem with this, but it does become an issue when you're tied into a specific manufacturer or cartel.


cyberknight said:


> I've read it a few times,try Carlos Castaneda 's books on Mexican Indian peyote induced trances for real weird.


William Burroughs' cut-up novels. I lasted 10 pages, and I've read Ulysses.


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## Blue Hills (14 Aug 2016)

Bollo said:


> I think bikes are going the way of cars in that components are becoming more integrated and less user-serviceable. I don't fundamentally have a problem with this, but it does become an issue when you're tied into a specific manufacturer or cartel.



Which integrated non user servicable bits are you thinking of, so that i am forewarned and can maybe start stocking up?

I very definitely have an issue with it.


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## John the Monkey (18 Sep 2016)

[QUOTE 4472347, member: 259"]This thread is going a bit twin peaks.[/QUOTE]


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