# Beltran tests postive



## yello (11 Jul 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7502763.stm


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## yello (11 Jul 2008)

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/...-reports-that-liquigas--manuel-beltran-tested


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## Dayvo (11 Jul 2008)

What can one say?

I would like to say I'm surprised, but unfortunately, I'm not!


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## alecstilleyedye (11 Jul 2008)

the only good thing is that he's one of the 'old guard', not one of the supposedly 'clean and proud' generation.


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## yenrod (11 Jul 2008)

How big does everyone feel this is likely to be ? - is it still exploding...


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## rich p (11 Jul 2008)

Liquigas might be asked or choose to leave


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## yenrod (11 Jul 2008)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/11072...-beltran-tests-positive-police-raid-team.html


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## mondobongo (11 Jul 2008)

Actually targeted due to pre Tour Test shows they are not going to mess about, Gendarmerie were straight in there.

Be very interesting if any sanctions are taken by ASO against Liquigas and this is the team that has signed Basso oh dear.
For the conspiracy theorists Beltran is an ex postal boy who joins the ranks of Hamilton and Landis.


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## rich p (11 Jul 2008)

how many former US Postal/Disco riders have subsequently tested positive, I wonder?
Landis, Beltran, any more? Perhaps the quality control is not so good at other teams as it was at USP/Disco


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## Chuffy (11 Jul 2008)

Oh. Another ex Postal/Disco rider. Gosh.


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## rich p (11 Jul 2008)

Blimey, Mondo, you've answered my question before I've asked it!!

A bit like the Two Ronnies sketch


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## Chuffy (11 Jul 2008)

Three posts simultaneously!


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## Chuffy (11 Jul 2008)

Stoppit! One at a time.


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## Chuffy (11 Jul 2008)

rich p said:


> how many former US Postal/Disco riders have subsequently tested positive, I wonder?
> Landis, Beltran, any more? Perhaps the quality control is not so good at other teams as it was at USP/Disco


Heras and Hamilton spring to mind.


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## rich p (11 Jul 2008)

Didn't ASO mke the teams sign up to a 100K euro fine if one of their riders tested positive?


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## rich p (11 Jul 2008)

Chuffy said:


> Heras and Hamilton spring to mind.



So that's 4 including Landis, Beltran. Any more.............yet?


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## yenrod (11 Jul 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_cycling


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## girofan (11 Jul 2008)

rich p said:


> So that's 4 including Landis, Beltran. Any more.............yet?




Yes, LA if the truth ever comes out!!!!


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## mondobongo (11 Jul 2008)

Heras that was the other one that I couldn't remember.

GF it is never ever going to be admitted to although a lot more people have doubts about him now. It is why Astana smell.


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## Chuffy (11 Jul 2008)

mondobongo said:


> Heras that was the other one that I couldn't remember.
> 
> GF it is never ever going to be admitted to although a lot more people have doubts about him now. It is why Astana smell.


Weren't Astana formed out of the wreckage of Liberty Seguros after they were stopped from taking part in the 2006 Tour because too many of them were implicated in Puerto? Oh, and leaving poor Alex Vinokourov stranded and unable to compete....
Astana smell on many levels...


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## mondobongo (11 Jul 2008)

Yes they smelt but then lo and behold they have a new Manager and half of Disco sign up for them and they stink too high heaven.


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## Noodley (11 Jul 2008)

FFS!!! 

And Liquigas management have a ****ing cheek - that would be the same management who have signed Basso...


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## mondobongo (11 Jul 2008)

Can you not hear Prudhomme scoring them off the ASO invite list.


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## yello (11 Jul 2008)

Is it possible the team didn't know??

Possible perhaps.... but stretching the bounds of credibility?

I just find utterly astounding that any team would knowingly employ a doper in the current climate.


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## Noodley (11 Jul 2008)

yello said:


> Is it possible the team didn't know??
> 
> Possible perhaps.... but stretching the bounds of credibility?
> 
> I just find utterly astounding that any team would knowingly employ a doper in the current climate.



I have maintained for years (and years) that teams and doctors are more to blame than riders. There are clean riders out there I am sure of it, and I think there are a number of previously doped riders who are now riding clean. It is not "new" it has existed "forever"...but it still pisses me off. !

It is a hard sport, and I am all for protecting/trying to protect the health of riders. I think there should be some degree of medical supervision and that medication/supplements/drugs should be introduced to replace "lost" reserves to balance to a "natural" level...but I acknowledge this is difficult. I know my body is all to pieces after a long ride and it takes days, sometimes weeks, to recover. For Pro riders it will be much worse...day after day, fast speeds, money at stake, sponsors, livelihood, always someone else willing to take a chance, new riders coming through, etc... 

I don't know the answer. There has to be a way; medical science is not something I know much about. But it appears it is a lucrative business in most sports.


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## Noodley (11 Jul 2008)

yello said:


> Is it possible the team didn't know??



No.


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## mondobongo (11 Jul 2008)

Don't think this will be the only one. As mentioned they targeted Beltran after pre Tour test anomalies there were a total of 10 riders with abnormal levels recorded. If they are targeting all 10 then another rider may yet be caught out.


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## Noodley (12 Jul 2008)

mondobongo said:


> Don't think this will be the only one. As mentioned they targeted Beltran after pre Tour test anomalies there were a total of 10 riders with abnormal levels recorded. If they are targeting all 10 then another rider may yet be caught out.



I thought it was 10-20 with "abnormalities" 

I can see this all going tits up again.


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## mondobongo (12 Jul 2008)

Cycling News reported 10.

This is going to be the passports biting arse if the UCI had played ball with ASO they could be comparing blood samples to the values in the passports but as it is handbags at 10 paces the passports languish in a lab somewhere. What a waste of time money and effort as the sport once again goes under the microscope.


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## Keith Oates (12 Jul 2008)

I'm really suprised about this as I thought firstly, no team would allow this to happen in the present climate (although it's possible the team didn't know) and also I thought ASO would keep it under their hats if something was found. Wrong on two counts.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<This is going to be the passports biting arse if the UCI had played ball with ASO they could be comparing blood samples> 

Without getting into who is right and wrong in the UCI - ASO debacle, I think in this case it was ASO who dumped the UCI not the other way around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rich p (12 Jul 2008)

According to cycling newsthe fine of 100K euros does not apply


"The station also reported that the team will escape the 100,000 euro penalty which was part of the ASO's anti-doping contract signed by all teams prior to the Tour, because they removed Beltrán immediately after the positive A-sample. 

Not much of a penalty then!


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## yello (12 Jul 2008)

mondobongo said:


> Don't think this will be the only one. As mentioned they targeted Beltran after pre Tour test anomalies there were a total of 10 riders with abnormal levels recorded. If they are targeting all 10 then another rider may yet be caught out.



ASO are spinning this (and it may well be the truth!) that the 10 abnormalities were not to do with doping. The tests found results outside 'certain parameters' so the riders were advised as a safety precaution, i.e. their health may have been at risk. It all seems very vague and no mention of what the 'certain parameters' were. 

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/79842/french-agency-dismisses-doping-claim

It is, however, plausible. I would hope that if a blood test showed traces of some virus or disease (for instance, I'm not saying it's that simplistic) then the testers would say something - even if it weren't what they were testing for. So it's benefit of the doubt time as far as I'm concerned. 

Fingers crossed that Beltran is the only one.


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## andy_wrx (12 Jul 2008)

Leakygas of course have signed Basso...

Perhaps ASO will not invite them next year, in the way they shut-out Astana this year.


It's supposed to be 10-20 riders who have 'suspicious' results from pre-Tour tests.
They are testing Ricco and Cunego a lot. Ricco won a stage so obviously they tested him then, but he's been done almost every day I understand...


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## yello (12 Jul 2008)

Many riders are having frequent tests of one form or another... I think it's the new regime and not necessarily part of any 'targeting' per se.


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## girofan (12 Jul 2008)

The BBC reported the TdF for the first time this week, as far as I know, on News 24's sports slot, and what did they report? 'Triki' Beltran's positive test! The only time cycling gets a mention on the BBC and the wider media is when there's something salacious, and our sport plays right into the hands of the sensationalist media.
Again anyone who rides a bike seriously will be portrayed as a cheating junkie!!! 
I really do consider that this time it is the end of cycle sport as a credible athletic pursuit. This cynical lot of managers, riders and agents have finally put the last nail in the coffin and we may never recover.
Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Noodley (12 Jul 2008)

girofan said:


> I really do consider that this time it is the end of cycle sport as a credible athletic pursuit....




That's been said for years GF. Every time there's a positive test people say it's the end. I doubt this will have much impact. Look at Puerto, Festina, Oil for Drugs, Landis, the Chicken, etc, etc


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## Keith Oates (12 Jul 2008)

It's disappointing but the real cycling fans will not be put off as they love the sport regardless. Most of the moaning is from those outside of the sport who are not in love with it and don't fully understand what goes on in the races!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Losidan (12 Jul 2008)

One rider kicked out....another who has come from nowhere to wear the maillot jaune and stinks to high heaven.....

Another top year for the TDF!!!


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## Noodley (12 Jul 2008)

Losidan said:


> ....another who has come from nowhere to wear the maillot jaune.....



you speaking about Schumacher or Kirchen?

Schumacher hardly came from nowhere. He was bronze medal winner in last year's Worlds. And wore the maglia rosa in the Giro the year before last.

Kirchen was in top ten of last year's Tour and won a stage as well IIRC. And this year he has been posting some very good results, and IMO he's not too much of a surprise for the maillot jeune at this stage of the race.


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## andy_wrx (12 Jul 2008)

girofan said:


> The BBC reported the TdF for the first time this week, as far as I know, on News 24's sports slot, and what did they report? 'Triki' Beltran's positive test!



No, there was lots of coverage on News 24, News at 10, the link into sports headlines on the BBC News homepage, and on BBC radio news, of Cav's win in the stage the other day.

Now he's won another one, I'm expecting lots of coverage tonight.


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## Losidan (12 Jul 2008)

Noodley said:


> you speaking about Schumacher or Kirchen?
> 
> Schumacher hardly came from nowhere. He was bronze medal winner in last year's Worlds. And wore the maglia rosa in the Giro the year before last.
> 
> Kirchen was in top ten of last year's Tour and won a stage as well IIRC. And this year he has been posting some very good results, and IMO he's not too much of a surprise for the maillot jeune at this stage of the race.



I guess I misheard the commentry on ITv then...It seemed to imply that he came from nowhere to win the time trial and take the jersey.


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## girofan (12 Jul 2008)

andy_wrx said:


> No, there was lots of coverage on News 24, News at 10, the link into sports headlines on the BBC News homepage, and on BBC radio news, of Cav's win in the stage the other day.




Must say I don't rely on BBC for cycling news, so your experience is good news in a way. I'm usually too busy watching Eurosport and trying to believe what I'm seeing is the truth. Unfortunately it often turns out to be a total lie.
I agree with a lot _*Noodley*_ says, but perhaps this time these selfish b***ards have gone one test too far!


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## Noodley (12 Jul 2008)

Losidan said:


> I guess I misheard the commentry on ITv then...It seemed to imply that he came from nowhere to win the time trial and take the jersey.



There was quite a bit implied on the ITV commentary!  I've no idea why they singled him out for comment regarding his performance  He has won quite a few ITTs over the years, this is the biggest no doubt. Maybe the ITV team have been told a few snippets behind the scenes...


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## rich p (12 Jul 2008)

I think it was about the recreational amphetamines and why he's in and Boonen out


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## Noodley (12 Jul 2008)

rich p said:


> I think it was about the recreational amphetamines and why he's in and Boonen out



The timing did it for Boonen, and the fact he is a big star.

Schumacher's amphetamine positives were in 2005 and 2007 (the latter being a test carried out by the Police, not cycling/drug authorities).


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## CotterPin (15 Jul 2008)

On the issue about coverage of the TdeF and doping stories, I seem to recollect that there was a story about a cricketer testing postive the other day? Interesting to hear of it in another sport and I am sure that cycling is not unique in having cheats.

But what struck me was that the cricketer's name was being witheld until the second test. How different that is to cycling! Think what happened to poor Rob Hayles earlier in the year.


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## marinyork (15 Jul 2008)

To be fair eurosport did talk about all of these things I believe, but I think they have more studio time so also talked about a lot of other things.


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## woohoo (15 Jul 2008)

CotterPin said:


> On the issue about coverage of the TdeF and doping stories, I seem to recollect that there was a story about a* cricketer testing postive the other day*? Interesting to hear of it in another sport and I am sure that cycling is not unique in having cheats.
> 
> But what struck me was that the cricketer's name was being witheld until the second test. How different that is to cycling! Think what happened to poor Rob Hayles earlier in the year.



Yes. It's a dreadful drugs-tainted sport(?). 

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SPORT/07/14/cricket.drugs.ap/


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## Chuffy (15 Jul 2008)

It's funny that in cycling, many common practices like teams and riders co-operating with each other, money being offered to a rider to work for a rival in a breakaway, results being decided by arcane chivalry ('you take the stage old chap because I'm placed higher than you in GC and might get yellow if we work together and hold off the peloton') would be regarded as blatant cheating in other sports. Could you imagine two football managers before a match and one saying 'Tell you what, we've already won the championship and you guys need the points to avoid relegation. Lets do a deal shall we?' Dear god, we'd never, _ever_ hear the end of it....


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## Tetedelacourse (16 Jul 2008)

Well so far it hasn't exploded. Fingers crossed.


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## Chiefwiggum (16 Jul 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/7509091.stm

Second rider tests positive


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## Tetedelacourse (16 Jul 2008)

y'know, as I typed that post before yours wiggum, I thought "should I double check the news?" then thought nah, the times are good, be positive (no pun intended).

19th overall? That's a big scalp. Please let there be no more.


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## yello (16 Jul 2008)

Tetedelacourse said:


> Please let there be no more.



Indeed.


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## Greenbank (17 Jul 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/7511518.stm


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