# Show us your Spa Wayfarer



## mickle (18 Oct 2020)

I'm thinking of buying the long frame. I'd be interested to hear people's thorts.


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## Spiderweb (18 Oct 2020)

@Vantage has one, looks very nice indeed.


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## All uphill (18 Oct 2020)

Please don't show me! I'm trying to resist!


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## Vantage (18 Oct 2020)

I have the short top tube version. 
I built mine from the bare frame up. Even the current head badge and decals were fitted by me so the bike @mickle possibly ends up with will no doubt differ, so I can't comment on its parts. 
The frame however, I can. There are pro's and con's. 

Pro's: It's very, very, very, very comfy indeed. Like riding along on a cushion of air...almost. 
There's oodles of tyre clearance. 47c with mudguards iirc. 
Plenty of braze ons for things. Except a spoke holder. No big loss. 

Cons: It's very, very, very, very comfy indeed. As a result, it's slower than hell and can be very floppy when fully loaded. Mine didn't take well to front panniers at all. Lots of shimmy. In car terms, you put your foot down and feck all happens. It absolutely will not shoot off from the lights like a rocket sled. 
The seat tube bottle cage mounts have been brazed/welded quite high up which can cause issues if it's a small frame. I had to fit a bottle cage height adjuster thingybob from topeak to get my small bottle to fit under the top tube. 
A small issue in the way in which the front wheel is held in the fork dropouts. The dropouts are almost forward facing and so the bike needs to be upright with wheel on the ground in order to centre it properly. 

The Tange Terious SRN headset fitted is absolute crap. It uses needle/roller bearings in the top race and getting it adjusted to have no play but not too tight is mission impossible. Plus they allow every little bit of water you can find into it. Plus a fair chunk of mud and grit. Ask Spa to change it for something better. 

This is mine shortly before my round the world ride across the North of England.


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## Gunk (18 Oct 2020)

That is lovely, a proper bike.


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## Vantage (18 Oct 2020)

I nearly forgot, a couple more negatives which cause issues are the mudguard fittings.

The rear seatstay bridge is brazed/welded high up and drilled vertically. This means having to drill the mudguard, using a big long bolt and spacers to adjust the height...which can only be done once. In addition to making a stress point in the mudguard, if its height does need to be changed because of a different sized tyre or because of cock ups when doing the initial fitting (which is the path I took), the hole needs to widened or re-drilled. It's a royal pain in the back side and quite frankly, a bloody stupid way to fasten a mudguard. A horizontal hole in a lowered seatstay bridge using a sliding bracket on the mudguard would have been much easier and tidier.





Again, regarding the rear mudguard, the chainstay bridge has again been placed too far forward towards the BB shell. Again, this requires the use of a long bolt and spacers to get the mudguard close to the tyre to do its job. In addition to that headache, because of where the bridge is, a standard kickstand cannot be fitted.
Because of the way the rear disc caliper is fitted, those kickstand which clamp to the seatstay and chainstay also cannot be used. The caliper sticks out too far.





Lastly, there's the fork crown bolt hole. Again, too high up and requiring the use of either some DIY trickery or a Fender Flute. I went for the flute option. Again, this causes more problems if you want to fit certain things like dynamo lights.
I've managed it by first bolting the mudguard to the flute, then shoving said flute up the forks arse and then using a long bolt and spacers to pull the flute against the crown which tightens the light bracket.





I plan on refitting the mudguards tomorrow after I've given the bike a wash so I'll take pics of the setup and post them here.

I believe these issues were a result of giving the bike the chance to take bigger tyres, but jeez it really was a bloody pain in the arse to come up a tidy solution for each one.


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## Blue Hills (19 Oct 2020)

Am surprised at this - always associate Tange with quality stuff.
I may be wrong but I have the idea that the headsets in my old 90s Ridgebacks are Tange of some sort (@raleighnut may know) and tho kinda basic looking I have found them fine - they are toughish looking old fashioned engineering though - ball bearings, no cartridge nonsense.


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## Blue Hills (19 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> Mine didn't take well to front panniers at all. Lots of shimmy.



Would a pair of these possibly help, even if you ended up putting a bit more on the back?

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/BNPODFORK/pair-of-podsacs-tarpaulin-fork-dry-bags

Have been pondering getting some for a while for putting lightish stuff in.

Someone on here, can't remember who, rates them.


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## raleighnut (19 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Am surprised at this - always associate Tange with quality stuff.
> I may be wrong but I have the idea that the headsets in my old 90s Ridgebacks are Tange of some sort (@raleighnut may know) and tho kinda basic looking I have found them fine - they are toughish looking old fashioned engineering though - ball bearings, no cartridge nonsense.


Nah the headset on mine doesn't seem to have any markings on it and is original AFAIK, it may be Tange as the frame tubing is.


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## mickle (19 Oct 2020)

Vantage said:


> I nearly forgot, a couple more negatives which cause issues are the mudguard fittings.



I'm not ashamed to admit that I take a perverse pleasure in devising mudguard installation solutions for reluctant bicycles.


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## Vantage (19 Oct 2020)

I ended up using chairing bolts and sleeves for the rear mudguard. It required drilling the seatstay bridge hole bigger though.






The tape is covering the previous balls up.






The bolt started coming through the mudguard at the chainstay bridge so I've stuck a bent penny washer behind there now.






Le Fender Flute. Pricy for what it is.






The spacer assembly for the front light bracket. It's a bunch of steel sleeve spacers and on the ends are bushes from 2 of those travel adapters for V brakes.
I'm working on a less fiddly setup.


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## mickle (9 Nov 2020)

I've put my name on one, a 58 'Long'. The new stock will clear customs next week. Exciting!


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## Blue Hills (10 Nov 2020)

mickle said:


> I've put my name on one, a 58 'Long'. The new stock will clear customs next week. Exciting!


look forward to your report back on getting it.


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## Drago (10 Nov 2020)

Been looking at these myself - theyve had some decent reviews as a good riding, sensibly thought out machines with a no nonsense spec. Just trying to think of an excuse to get bike no.11 past Mrs D.


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## Blue Hills (10 Nov 2020)

Drago said:


> Been looking at these myself - theyve had some decent reviews as a good riding, sensibly thought out machines with a no nonsense spec. Just trying to think of an excuse to get bike no.11 past Mrs D.


maybe you could take one of your bikes apart, just partly, temporarily at least.
Or slide a frame under the bed?
The floorboards in a spare room?
If you have a garage, could you discover a winter passion for some health-improving DIY - putting in a mezzanine of some sort - fronted by innocent household stuff/doll-making requisites?


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## Drago (10 Nov 2020)

I have thought of building a false wall with some gun racks which swivels open to reveal the secret double digit bicycle.


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## mickle (16 Nov 2020)

The shipping container arrived. It contained no Wayfarer frames. Next container isn't due until March/April. Bummed.


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## mickle (7 Jan 2022)

Ordered it today! Woop.


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## alex_cycles (7 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> I have thought of building a false wall with some gun racks which swivels open to reveal the secret double digit bicycle.


Will you have room for the shark pool and remote-controlled trapdoor bridge in there too?


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## mickle (12 Jan 2022)

It begins..


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## Vantage (12 Jan 2022)

And there's me thinking they were dropping the cantilever bosses on long frames. Must have had a change of heart.


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## freiston (15 Jan 2022)

mickle said:


> It begins..
> View attachment 626131


I don't need one and I can't afford one but I want one - where's the emoji for "drool"?


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## HLaB (15 Jan 2022)

All uphill said:


> Please don't show me! I'm trying to resist!


Did you give in


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## All uphill (15 Jan 2022)

HLaB said:


> Did you give in









I bought this from Spa instead, and I'm happy.


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## Blue Hills (15 Jan 2022)

All uphill said:


> View attachment 626644
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this from Spa instead, and I'm happy.


excuse my ignorance, can I ask what it is?


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## All uphill (15 Jan 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> excuse my ignorance, can I ask what it is?


Spa Aubisque.

It's slightly lighter than the full touring Spa cycles and has a lower stack. It was built for me with Sora 2x9 gears ( 46/30 and 11/40) so that I can comfortably ride around Devon and Somerset hills and do some credit card touring.


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## SkipdiverJohn (15 Jan 2022)

It's a sad state of affairs that it requires so much effort these days to actually source a sensible steel touring bike that can take proper tyres, proper mudguards, and have rack mounts. Back in the 70's and 80's many fairly low-budget bikes sold as "racers" were in fact fairly long wheelbase touring-geometry type frames with enough tyre clearance and with lower gearing could also be used for touring/utility riding if so desired. Modern drop bar bikes are so much less versatile than the ones being made 40 years ago!


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## mickle (25 Jan 2022)

Embarrassingly, having worked in the bike trade for nearly thirty years and even written a chapter in a book about how to choose the right frame size, I bought the wrong frame size. It didn't cross my mind for a millisecond that a 58cm with loads of fork clearance combined with an extra long head tube would be any different from a regular road bike. Thankfully they were more than happy to swap it for the next size down. What a dufus.


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## mickle (27 Jan 2022)

If anyone has one of these 25 year old plastic Sachs derailleurs may I suggest that you don't try installing it when it's cold.


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## freiston (27 Jan 2022)

@mickle - those rims remind me of my old Mavic Module E rims!


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## mickle (28 Jan 2022)

freiston said:


> @mickle - those rims remind me of my old Mavic Module E rims!


Halo rims innit.


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## freiston (28 Jan 2022)

. . . and I've just realised that you've got your bidons and cages fitted before your drivetrain


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## mickle (28 Jan 2022)

freiston said:


> . . . and I've just realised that you've got your bidons and cages fitted before your drivetrain


There's method in my madness!


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## mickle (31 Jan 2022)

ebay bracket drops bottle cage by a few mm


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## freiston (31 Jan 2022)

mickle said:


> ebay bracket drops bottle cage by a few mm


I'll have to take a look at those. I have two cages and I use 1 litre and 750ml "ion8" leakproof bottles. I can't get the litre bottle into or out of the seat tube cage without forcing it against the top tube.


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## Vantage (1 Feb 2022)

I use a similar bracket. Mines made by topeak and cost (I think) around £10-15. There was 2 in the pack along with plenty of bolts.


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## SkipdiverJohn (1 Feb 2022)

freiston said:


> . . . and I've just realised that you've got your bidons and cages fitted before your drivetrain



I'm guessing it's something to do with ground, crankset and tyre clearance in the case of the underslung bottle.


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## jowwy (1 Feb 2022)

mickle said:


> If anyone has one of these 25 year old plastic Sachs derailleurs may I suggest that you don't try installing it when it's cold.
> View attachment 628498
> 
> 
> ...


are you fitting two sets of brakes???


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## mickle (1 Feb 2022)

jowwy said:


> are you fitting two sets of brakes???


I'm installing two cantilevers plus a rear disc. Partly because I like the idea of a (tandem stoker style) drag brake for heavy descents ( I've got 
bit of arthuritis) and as a parking brake but mostly because, with this frame, I can. I can't fit a disc on the front because I'm using a SON dynamo hub. I'm just pissing about with it really. I'm hoping I can use a left side down tube friction shifter to drive the disc caliper, but not sure it'll have enough pull.


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## confusedcyclist (1 Feb 2022)

mickle said:


> I'm not ashamed to admit that I take a perverse pleasure in devising mudguard installation solutions for reluctant bicycles.


3D printing is a fettlers dream. Light mounts, custom multi gadget holders, spacers, bottle cages, pump holders, anything you can dream of, you can design, craft and fit in a matter of hours.


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## mickle (1 Feb 2022)

confusedcyclist said:


> 3D printing is a fettlers dream. Light mounts, custom multi gadget holders, spacers, bottle cages, pump holders, anything you can dream of, you can design, craft and fit in a matter of hours.


I'm more of a drill and hacksaw merchant myself.


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## confusedcyclist (8 Feb 2022)

Each to their own, but the printer is excellent for rapid prototyping and iterative design, that can get tiresome and expensive with other materials, however, I fully appreciate the benefits of other types of materials.


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## mickle (9 Feb 2022)

Have made good progress but cannot decide on which mudguards to fit.


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## mickle (9 Feb 2022)

Coffee/water/whisky carrying is sorted anyway.


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## freiston (9 Feb 2022)

Has there ever been so much bling on a Spa before? 

Looking good. What's the handlebar tape?


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## mickle (9 Feb 2022)

freiston said:


> Has there ever been so much bling on a Spa before?
> 
> Looking good. What's the handlebar tape?


Thanks. Cinelli (IIRC)


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## All uphill (9 Feb 2022)

I love that you are building it the way you want it; especially your answer to disc or rim brakes - both!

It's unlikely you will meet someone on an identical bike @mickle


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Feb 2022)

mickle said:


> Have made good progress but cannot decide on which mudguards to fit.


You mean there are some other types of mudguard out there apart from SKS Chromoplastics with the stripe down the middle?


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## mickle (11 Feb 2022)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You mean there are some other types of mudguard out there apart from SKS Chromoplastics with the stripe down the middle?


I have settled on these French stainless steel jobs. https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/copy-of-gilles-berthoud-stainless-steel-mudguards-type-long


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## bagpuss (11 Feb 2022)

Here is mine .
Excellent paint finish on the frame&forks . Purchased as frame set only ,then quality shed time. Wonderful for winter riding .



Kedleston Hall {NT} by rebalrid, on Flickr


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## Blue Hills (12 Feb 2022)

mickle said:


> I have settled on these French stainless steel jobs. https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/copy-of-gilles-berthoud-stainless-steel-mudguards-type-long


mm - do those have an anti-snag quick release on the front?


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## mickle (12 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> mm - do those have an anti-snag quick release on the front?


No they do not. I suspect because a stainless steel front mudguard can't get sucked under the crown in quite the same way as a plastic one.


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## Blue Hills (12 Feb 2022)

mickle said:


> No they do not. I suspect because a stainless steel front mudguard can't get sucked under the crown in quite the same way as a plastic one.


interesting point, though I'd still be nervous. Have tests been done on jams?


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## galaxy (12 Feb 2022)

Vantage said:


> I have the short top tube version.
> I built mine from the bare frame up. Even the current head badge and decals were fitted by me so the bike @mickle possibly ends up with will no doubt differ, so I can't comment on its parts.
> The frame however, I can. There are pro's and con's.
> 
> ...


Beauty, tempted myself


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## mickle (28 Feb 2022)

First ride out. It still needs mudguards, racks, bar tape, kick stand, dynamo lights wired in and steerer chopped down when I've settled on bar height. It has three brakes and five brake levers (left hand down-tube shifter pulls the rear disc as a drag / parking brake). Parts from each of the last four decades. And no Shimano. It rides very nicely. Loving the Panaracer Gravel King Slicks (37c)


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## mickle (5 Mar 2022)

New saddle by Dia Compe. Copper headset spacer work-in-progress (obviously it's a few mm too long)


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## freiston (5 Mar 2022)

Are you using the cable hanger below the spacer to maintain the headset bearing preload?


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## mickle (5 Mar 2022)

freiston said:


> Are you using the cable hanger below the spacer to maintain the headset bearing preload?


Nope. It's not a clampy one.


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## Blue Hills (6 Mar 2022)

mickle said:


> New saddle by Dia Compe. Copper headset spacer work-in-progress (obviously it's a few mm too long)
> View attachment 633974
> 
> 
> View attachment 633975


Is that gorillatape camo on the top tube?
To protect against knocks?


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## mickle (6 Mar 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Is that gorillatape camo on the top tube?
> To protect against knocks?


Yep. Just while I'm building it. I'll stick some clear tape on it at some point.


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## mickle (6 Mar 2022)

I want to use the space between wheel and bar bag for bulky/light stuff. Tubus make a very nice one that's well over £100. Surly, Bounty, Blackburn, VelOrange etc make them in various iterations of unsuitability and expensiveness. Blackburn used to make a simple front rack which could work in conjunction with a low rider. Madison (M-Part) make a front rack but it's not compatible with their lowrider, which I already have. Brick Lane Bikes came to the rescue wuth their very simple Lightweight Front Rack for just £20!


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## mickle (6 Mar 2022)

Parking/ stoker brake works a treat. Suntour NOS LH shifter works like it was designed for the job.


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## Blue Hills (6 Mar 2022)

mickle said:


> Yep. Just while I'm building it. I'll stick some clear tape on it at some point.


I'd be inclined to keep - I use bits of it on my British Racing Green ridgeback expedition in various places to stop cable rub - if I'd put some on the top tube could have avoided some very bad dinging/scratching that occurred soon after I got it - still don't know when/how it happened.


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## mickle (7 Mar 2022)

Bagged up.


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## T4tomo (7 Mar 2022)

mickle said:


> Bagged up.


looking good

out of interest, what is this bit: 




is it a garmin or phone mount?


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## mickle (7 Mar 2022)

T4tomo said:


> looking good
> 
> out of interest, what is this bit:
> View attachment 634172
> ...


It's a BikeEye mirror I got for free about ten years ago because I wrote a review of it.


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## Vantage (13 Mar 2022)

mickle said:


> Bagged up.
> View attachment 634169



How does she handle loaded like that? Mine isn't keen on front loads...lots of shimy.


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## mickle (14 Mar 2022)

Vantage said:


> How does she handle loaded like that? Mine isn't keen on front loads...lots of shimy.


The *secret* is to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible and behind the steering centre. If it's set up properly a touring bike should ride no handed when fully loaded.


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## postman (14 Mar 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Is that gorillatape camo on the top tube?
> To protect against knocks?


Forgive me Father for i have sinned.Whilst cleaning three bikes on Saturday,one slipped,it caught a hard object and chipped paint off the top tube,it is Mrs P's Koga,it WAS immaculate,i was devastated.When i told her she was so kind to say ok its only a bike,i have worse scratches on the car.


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## mickle (8 Apr 2022)

Now with guards du mud!


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## Tom... (8 Apr 2022)

mickle said:


> Now with guards du mud!
> View attachment 639057



and bar tape!


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## freiston (8 Apr 2022)

Will you be adding flaps du mud?


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## mickle (12 Apr 2022)

It weighs a farking ton.


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## raleighnut (12 Apr 2022)

mickle said:


> It weighs a farking ton.
> View attachment 639611


Aye those 'kitchen sinks' are a bit weighty.


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## RoMeR (12 Apr 2022)

mickle said:


> It weighs a farking ton.
> View attachment 639611


I really wish it was mine.


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## mickle (12 Apr 2022)

RoMeR said:


> I really wish it was mine.


Thanks, I might leave it to you in my will.


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## Vantage (13 Apr 2022)

Are you planning on a round the world tour? 
Get some smaller bags and you'll be less inclined to carry so much crap in them.


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## RoMeR (13 Apr 2022)

mickle said:


> Thanks, I might leave it to you in my will.


Why wait?, do something good today.


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## Saracenlad (13 Apr 2022)

mickle said:


> It weighs a farking ton.
> View attachment 639611


Really looks the business. Good job.


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## Vantage (25 Jun 2022)

As of this week, it's now an ebike.


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## mickle (3 Jul 2022)

It's taken me all this time to sort the front rack set-up. The M-part low rider is a piece of crap compared to the Blackburn now fitted.











Just the front dynamo light, gadget charger and trip computer to wire up and it'll be done! Possibly...


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## mickle (4 Jul 2022)

Front lights. Awaiting wiring.


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## mickle (10 Aug 2022)

Jeez. It was supposed to be a simple job, buy a new frame and chuck all the bits over from the existing bike. That was January and here we are. The Blackburn Custom Low-rider I was so delighted to find a NOS example of hanging on the wall of a local shop (after being an absolute bastard to fit to my fork) - does not place the bags where I want them. The whole point of a low-rider fork is to lower the centre of gravity to improve the handling. A properly set up low-rider hangs the bags behind the steerer, which makes a bike so stable you can ride all the way to Timbuktu no handed. So I sold the low-rider for what I'd paid for it and spent weeks trying to order a Giant Rack-it front rack. A farking saga in itself. Anyway. I now have a set up which uses a £20 Brick Lane Bikes front rack to fill the space between wheel and bar bag, and a nicely made low rider £23 which places the back hook of the bag behind the fork where it belongs. I will at some point link the front racks together for a bit more rigidity, but it's perfectly good as is. A bloody bargain if you exclude the fannying about.

Now that the racks are finally resolved I can wire the dynamo lights, gadget charger and trip computer. At which point I might go cycle camping.

New (wider) Spa Saddle. I didn't get on with the ENE which is basically a B17 clone.


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## freiston (10 Aug 2022)

There's a chance I might have some spare cash some time in the future and I would like to build up my own bike based on a Wayfarer frame. I started a "wishlist" and it's scary just how much my dream would cost and also just how hard it is to source the bits I want (and how one component choice affects others). Wanting Paul Klampers doesn't help .


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## mickle (10 Aug 2022)

Spa Cycles Wayfarer frame with FSA cartridge HS
Son 32 front, Halo Combat 36 rear, Halo White Line 700 rims, black stainless spokes
VO stem
Nitto Noodle bar
Cane Creek brake levers
Microshift 9 speed bar end shifters
VO cables throughout
Stronglight CS, Syncros 46, Stronglight 34, Pace 24
12/32 SRAM 9spd cassette and chain
Suntour XC 9000 rear mech with alloy pulleys
Tektro (I think) cantilever brakes
Tektro (I think) rear disc as a parking/drag brake (activated by a Campag left hand down tube shifter)
Sachs plastic front mech
Chain catcher
Halo ti Allen key skewers
Stainless mudguards
Panaracer Gravel King tyres 42c
Spa Cycles saddle
Genetic seat post
Hope seat clamp
Green bling
Blackburn rear rack
BLB front rack (adapted)
Giant lowrider
Brooks vegan bar tape with gel pads under it
Cross top brakes


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## Dogtrousers (10 Aug 2022)

mickle said:


> Brooks vegan bar tape with gel pads under it


This tickled me. If you happen to find yourself out of supplies, and manage to trap a rabbit, but your companion is vegan, you can say "That's OK, you can eat my bar tape"


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## mickle (15 Sep 2022)

I think it might be *finished*.


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## Saracenlad (16 Sep 2022)

mickle said:


> I think it might be *finished*.



Great job. Where too then?


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## mickle (16 Sep 2022)

Saracenlad said:


> Great job. Where too then?



Shakedown ride and overnight at my nearest campsite tomorrow night. It's 2.1 miles away😂


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## mickle (5 Oct 2022)

Latest upgrade, a Bentley Components stainless top cap:


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## Poacher (6 Oct 2022)

mickle said:


> Latest upgrade, a Bentley Components stainless top cap:



Damn you! I went straight to their website to order one and couldn't find it.
Was it a special commission?


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## mickle (6 Oct 2022)

Poacher said:


> Damn you! I went straight to their website to order one and couldn't find it.
> Was it a special commission?



When he's made me a green anodized titanium one I'll sell you this stainless one if you like. Obviously I'll have to put a big mark up on it because free market economics.


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## mickle (15 Oct 2022)

mickle said:


> When he's made me a green anodized titanium one I'll sell you this stainless one if you like. Obviously I'll have to put a big mark up on it because free market economics.



My new green one is in the post to me if anyone wants to buy this one. For what I paid for it & free postage.


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