# to buy or not to buy



## welsh dragon (27 May 2014)

Im thinking of buying a folding bike. Only thinking mind you, and not about any particular bike at the moment. 

But, are folders a bit micky mouse? Are they to be used only for very short rides. Will I get enough use, out of it.? I don't think I can have a bike rack fitted to the back of my car, and I would not be able to lift my hybrid up onto the roof of my car, so a folder would seem to be the way to go, but only if I would use it.

I quite fancy being able to just throw a bike into the back of my car to be able to use it if I wanted to. What do you use yours for? Do you get a lot of out of it, or is it left in the back of your garage gathering dust. How far would and could you ride your folder?


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## Pale Rider (27 May 2014)

I have a Brompton and while it is the least used of my bikes, it is the one I will never sell.

Parts supply is good and Bromptons don't change much - a new one wouldn't be a significant upgrade on my 2009 model.

Some people tour the world on them, but I find the ride on mine harsh so don't undertake trips of much more than 10 miles.

The small tyres are not brilliant on cinder tracks - it's a bit like riding on ball bearings - so that's another limiting factor.

Lots of folders have 20" wheels, with the right tyres they are nearly as comfy as a full-size wheeled bike and will also do tracks and paths.

Larger folded package, but that's not a problem if you only want to lift it in and out of the car.


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## welsh dragon (27 May 2014)

Pale Rider said:


> I have a Brompton and while it is the least used of my bikes, it is the one I will never sell.
> 
> Parts supply is good and Bromptons don't change much - a new one wouldn't be a significant upgrade on my 2009 model.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. Yes I would only be lifting it in and out of my car, and I would want 20" wheels as well. Maybe if it had 20" in wheels I would be able to
go further than 10 miles. I think the furthest I would ever go would be 20 to 25 miles.


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## welsh dragon (27 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> @redfalo and Mrs redfalo just cycled from London to Paris on their Bromptons, so he might have some wise words of advice for you welsh dragon.



Thanks for the info.


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## John the Monkey (27 May 2014)

I bought a Brompton on Cyclescheme in 2009.

Unbelievably useful bike - I've used it for;

-Riding back from B&Q after loading up the car with doors (bike in the boot on the way down, then Mrs M drove back)
-Commuting on days I have to be on other sites & aren't sure about the bike parking (b/c I can fold the Brompton and keep it with me)
-Running errands to places where the bike parking isn't great (b/c I can fold the Brompton and keep it with me)
-Multi-mode commutes with the ability to get *any* train without that tiresome bike reservation nonsense

...and probably some things I've forgotten.

I've never done vast distances on mine, but it's been a really useful little bike to have.


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## welsh dragon (27 May 2014)

Thanks for that. Its always nice to hear the other side of the coin so to speak. I know some people are a bit overprotective when it comes to Bromptons, but not everyone can be in love with them. I daresay they are a bit like marmite, you either love them or hate them.

And I will look into taking the front wheel off we well. Cheers


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## StuAff (27 May 2014)

Currently on my third folder, all Dahons- Chutney the Speed Pro TT. I previously had a Jetstream XP (also 20"), and a Cadenza (26"- so more of a 'transportable' than a folder- hope it broke under the person who nicked it). Dahons and Terns are probably the best bet if you want a 20" bike, though depending on your budget you might also have a look at Pacific's Reach models (which are the slightly larger and rarer 451 rather than 406 wheel size) and the Xootr Swift (which is a bit rare over here, but a great bike and very flexible RE configuration). The Dahons and Terns are the smallest fold of that lot, and the widest availability. Evans among others stock Tern. Unfortunately, the higher-end Dahons seem to be unavailable for the most part in the UK. There can also be problems getting hold of parts, particularly for older models, as they've had a very high model turnover, multiple changes of UK distributor...so if it were me buying new, now, I'd go for a Tern.
As for being mickey mouse- I did the full IOW Randonnee and multiple FNRttCs on the Jetstream, and my first ton on the Cadenza. Chutney is the least used of my current four, but definitely not the least loved- every bit as good for long runs as the other three (it's a fast, lightweight road bike, that just happens to have small wheels and folds) and every time I ride it it puts a smile on my face. I've done three tons so far on Chutney, including 170 or so miles in France and Belgium over a couple of days a few weeks back. Main part of ride here. Previous owner took it to the Pyrenees, climbed the Tourmalet, Luz Ardiden & Hautacam on it...


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## rich p (27 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> Just to add balance, this was my personal experience: I bought a second-hand Brompton that came up because at the time I had a motorhome and I thought it might be a useful little bike to put in the van and ride off-site. In fact I found it clunky, heavy, horrible, and uncomfortable to ride, much to my disappointment. Because I hardly used it, because I disliked riding it so much, I had to get out the instructions that I printed off the internet every time to remind me how to fold and unfold the bloody thing, and in the end I sold it to someone who was longing to own one. Wonder if she's ridden it much @rich p?
> 
> Other folding bikes are available though. And you can take the front wheel off an ordinary bike to get it in even the smallest car.


FWIW, I wouldn't be seen dead on a folder
I bought TMN's Brompton for my daughter for a specific purpose when she lived in London and had car, childcare, work interface issues. It was the only way it would work for her and her commute.
Since she moved back to Brighton she has always chosen the Specialized Sequoia in preference.
@User once pointed out to me that, for him on a commute, it was a Brompton or nothing, which nails it but If you can get away with a 'real' bike then do so. But they have a place for necessity.
What always baffles me is why people would ride one when they could ride a proper bike - the hell of it? Dunno!


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## MacB (27 May 2014)

I bought one for a commute to London, full size bikes not allowed on trains in rush hour, and then the job failed to materialise. However I do use it for shopping as it removes my fear of theft because I take it into the shops with me. I chose a Bike Friday Tikit as I was distinctly unimpressed by the ride of a Brompton, the specific parts it requires, the readjusting when you fold/unfold and the faff of a rear wheel change. I prefer the ride on the Tikit though it's still clearly a 16" wheel bike and I think I now fall into the camp of, not using it a huge amount but really glad I have it and not likely to give it up. My wife has one as well and it suits her needs very nicely. However a Brompton is far more affordable due to import duties etc.


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## welsh dragon (28 May 2014)

Thanks a lot to everyone for your input. You've all given me a lot to think about. I had no idea you could ride them as far as 100 miles. And you have given me a good mix of opinions to think about. Many thanks to you all.


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## summerdays (28 May 2014)

We have an estate car so my bike fits in with the back seat folded down without removing the wheel. I've also managed to fit two bikes into the back of a colleagues old polo car with both front wheels removed. The most number of bikes I saw fitted into a car was in the back of a people carrier, where I think my friend fitted 5 bikes but removed all wheels I think (he made sure he put his bike on top if the wife and kids bikes).


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## Cookie56 (28 May 2014)

I have a folding bike that I use to commute part way to work. I needed something I could fold up into the boot of the car but wanted something rideable.
I chose a montague, which is effectively a full size hybrid (700c tyres) with a clever hinge that folds it in half. Not the best riding hybrid I've ever used but ok for 10-20miles in reasonable comfort.
Might be worth a look if you're not planning to use the train or other public transport much ?


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## cisamcgu (28 May 2014)

I have put our tandem, sans wheels, in the back of a Honda Jazz with my daughter sitting next to it 

It is amazing what can be squeezed into a car if needed


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## welsh dragon (28 May 2014)

I might give it a go. I have a suzuki splash. The website says rear bike racks can't be added to models after 2008. I think its because of the tailgate perhaps. Maybe I can get my hybrid in it


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## jefmcg (28 May 2014)

in 2008 I had an old mountain bike that I literally never rode. I liked cycle commuting by work was too far for me to even consider it - 13 miles! - but wanted to avoid the waterloo & city line which was making me sad. So I bought a Mezzo, which was a competitor to the Brompton.

It was my only bike for four years, so I did everything on it. In 2011, the last year it was my only bike, I rode about 5,000 miles. In 2012 I did the Dunwich Dynamo on it. I still take it when I travel, and used it to keep up with 100km/month challenge in February and March when I was in Australia.

On the other side, I can fit my road bike, with front wheel removed but mudguards still on, in a Ford Ka.


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## welsh dragon (28 May 2014)

User13710 said:


> I used to put one of those hanging tailgate bike racks on my hatchback and carry one or two bikes that way. BUT I was always very anxious about them working loose or something breaking. I wouldn't recommend them; the thought of the bikes falling off the back of the car into following traffic was always in my mind - and fitting the thing to the car was a real pain.





User13710 said:


> I used to put one of those hanging tailgate bike racks on my hatchback and carry one or two bikes that way. BUT I was always very anxious about them working loose or something breaking. I wouldn't recommend them; the thought of the bikes falling off the back of the car into following traffic was always in my mind - and fitting the thing to the car was a real pain.



That's what I've heard as well. The thought of that happening is horrible.


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## StuartG (28 May 2014)

The Marmite comment was apt. Why is it some of us luv'em and some hate'm?

I have to go back to my first experience of riding the Brompton after a 'proper' road bike. The twitchiness may be your first impression. My view was it was not a nice bike to ride but if you have to fold better than no bike at all. This view continued for the first six years. It never went much more than two mile trips. Then, by circumstance, I had to take it on a mini-tour. First issue was gearing (it is a 3 speed). Changed the chainwheel and that, in my eyes, halved the apparent weight of the bike. Then there were fast descents which I would expect to have terrified me. But stability improves with speed. And after a few hundred miles its motion and action becomes natural. I found I was really riding the bike rather than fighting it. Moreover, enjoying it immensely.

Without that first forced long ride I may have agreed with some of you above. I think the issue is that if you have a negative impression then experience is likely to reinforce it. If you have a positive impression that it can comfortably do 60/80 miles as easily as a proper bike then the experience of riding it again reinforces your opinion. May be its not an accident that it has a Brooks saddle and I do like Marmite. YMMV.


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## John the Monkey (28 May 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Thanks a lot to everyone for your input. You've all given me a lot to think about. I had no idea you could ride them as far as 100 miles. And you have given me a good mix of opinions to think about. Many thanks to you all.



People have ridden Audaxes on Bromptons, I believe 

I think the sticking point may be that the fit isn't all that tweakable (although you can add stubby bar ends, and fit a better saddle for long ride comfort). The riding position (even on the S-type) seems quite susceptible to headwinds too. 

Back when I bought mine, the dealer was fine about me whizzing it around the car park near the shop, so if you know what riding position you like, it might be worth trying one. 

As well as Dahon, have a look at Mezzos, which are thought to have a "big bike" ride. Like Dahon, they don't have as intuitive, or compact fold as Bromptons though


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## seadragonpisces (28 May 2014)

Loads of views and depends if you like style over function etc etc and of course depends what you use it for and how much you want to spend ultimately. If you are a bit self conscious and concerned about your street cred then I would go for a folder with 20’’ wheels or larger, ie, avoid the Brompton.

I have owned a Brompton and a Dahon (Jetstream EX) and I feel more manly on the Dahon with chunky 20’’ wheels (with front and rear suspension). The Brompton has the superior fold and is good quality, but I absolutely loathed the stupid gear change trigger mechanism on my S-type 6 speed bike. You also don’t feel that secure on smaller wheels at high speed.

People will have vastly differing views and there is no wrong choice. If you aren’t too bothered then I guess it comes down to what you like and how much money you are willing to part with..

PS: If you buy a Brompton you won’t be able to get it delivered, you have to pick it up from whatever bike shop you have ordered it through.


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## Brommyboy (30 May 2014)

The Brompton is what you make of it: I regularly use mine for camping tours, but have also done long day rides on it, the very longest being 113 miles. It does not give a hard ride if the front tyre is correctly inflated, mine is usually at about 3.5 bar (say, 50 lb/sq. in). It is very robust and has little frame flex. I have the reduced gearing option, as the normal gears are too high for longer rides, on my 6-speed. In my profile image I am riding over the notorious Applecross Pass.

For 20" wheeled folders, do note that that is with a 2" tyre: if running road tyres, then the wheel size is barely bigger than 18", not much more than the 16" Brompton wheel.


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## welsh dragon (30 May 2014)

Brommyboy said:


> The Brompton is what you make of it: I regularly use mine for camping tours, but have also done long day rides on it, the very longest being 113 miles. It does not give a hard ride if the front tyre is correctly inflated, mine is usually at about 3.5 bar (say, 50 lb/sq. in). It is very robust and has little frame flex. I have the reduced gearing option, as the normal gears are too high for longer rides, on my 6-speed. In my profile image I am riding over the notorious Applecross Pass.
> 
> For 20" wheeled folders, do note that that is with a 2" tyre: if running road tyres, then the wheel size is barely bigger than 18", not much more than the 16" Brompton wheel.



Thanks for that.


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## gpx001 (2 Jun 2014)

Hi, just to add my four-penneth, I have owned a Dawes Kingpin (Re-badged Dahon) for the past 6-7 years.
I used to work away from home alot and got it to pootle round on in the evenings, it has proved an excellent buy! I have since changed jobs and now use it most days to travel too and from work (I drive half way then cycle the rest it saves lots of time and petrol).
I have taken it on holiday with me doing 20-40 mile rides across all terrain (eg the sandy promenade, off road in the Cairngorms and through parts of Snowdonia)
It is also good for going to fetch the car the morning after a few beers!
Folders Mickey Mouse - maybe once and maybe some of the real cheapies, but they have come along way and are great pieces of engineering


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## MarkF (8 Jun 2014)

I think they are great, my good lady prefers to ride her folder rather than her hybrid, so we just chuck them (Dahon + Philips) in the boot and go wherever. They've taken as much abuse as "normal" bikes and I've had zero issues, I fitted M+'s as soon as we got them. We actually bought them for a trip to Amsterdam, which was silly really considering the amount of hire shops.  Still, I am glad we did buy them, we never now use them as we intended to, city weekends abroad, but they have proved great fun. I don't have or want a bike rack and it's associated hassle, if we are going somewhere we always take the folders in case we want to use them.


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## Gravity Aided (4 Jul 2014)

I often use mine (Peugeot Weekender) in a rather spoke and hub arrangement, using car to get downtown and bike to go about from there, or from train station to destination and return to train station. I am considering a Montague or a Bike Friday in future so I have speeds, and these are also more capable of bearing my great size. Bike Fridays would be able to be used by both myself and Mrs. GA were she ever to be so inclined.


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## London Female (12 Jul 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Im thinking of buying a folding bike. Only thinking mind you, and not about any particular bike at the moment.
> 
> But, are folders a bit micky mouse? Are they to be used only for very short rides. Will I get enough use, out of it.? I don't think I can have a bike rack fitted to the back of my car, and I would not be able to lift my hybrid up onto the roof of my car, so a folder would seem to be the way to go, but only if I would use it.
> 
> I quite fancy being able to just throw a bike into the back of my car to be able to use it if I wanted to. What do you use yours for? Do you get a lot of out of it, or is it left in the back of your garage gathering dust. How far would and could you ride your folder?



Hello welsh dragon, did you get a folder in the end and if you did what did you go for? I am thinking of buying one too. Bromptoms are not an option as I need to get three and we want ones with 20 inch wheels, I want one each for my two children too (my son will be paying 50% of his).


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## welsh dragon (12 Jul 2014)

London Female said:


> Hello welsh dragon, did you get a folder in the end and if you did what did you go for? I am thinking of buying one too. Bromptoms are not an option as I need to get three and we want ones with 20 inch wheels, I want one each for my two children too (my son will be paying 50% of his).



Hi. Yes I bought a rarher cheap folder witb 20in wheels in the end.i wanted to see if I liked them first and if I do then I'll save my pennies and buy a tern that I have my eye on. It's a tern node 24, with 24in wheels. The reviews are very good apparently, so I'll have to start saving for it.

Anyhow, I must admit i do like folders. I like the fact that I can put it Into the boot and take it anywhere. They're really easy to fold and unfold, and are easy to ride. It doesn't feel cramped or small, and there is no flexing in the bike at all. I was worred about flexing, but there isn't any at all. I love them, especially the aspect of being able to use it whenever I am out and about. 

It's a must have as far as I am concerned, and I can recommend them. Hope this helps.


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## London Female (12 Jul 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> Hi. Yes I bought a rarher cheap folder witb 20in wheels in the end.i wanted to see if I liked them first and if I do then I'll save my pennies and buy a tern that I have my eye on. It's a tern node 24, with 24in wheels. The reviews are very good apparently, so I'll have to start saving for it.
> 
> Anyhow, I must admit i do like folders. I like the fact that I can put it Into the boot and take it anywhere. They're really easy to fold and unfold, and are easy to ride. It doesn't feel cramped or small, and there is no flexing in the bike at all. I was worred about flexing, but there isn't any at all. I love them, especially the aspect of being able to use it whenever I am out and about.
> 
> It's a must have as far as I am concerned, and I can recommend them. Hope this helps.



Thank you, that's a big help. I have been looking at dahon and we are going to try them this week. I may just go for a decathlon bfold 7 for my son as I think he will use it less often. We want something we can put in the car as hanging three bikes off the back of my car is not an option. We had such a great time all cycling together when we were in Amsterdam we would like to do more and folders will make that possible.


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## welsh dragon (12 Jul 2014)

London Female said:


> Thank you, that's a big help. I have been looking at dahon and we are going to try them this week. I may just go for a decathlon bfold 7 for my son as I think he will use it less often. We want something we can put in the car as hanging three bikes off the back of my car is not an option. We had such a great time all cycling together when we were in Amsterdam we would like to do more and folders will make that possible.



They are a lot of fun, and I think once you have ridden them a few times, you won't know how you managed without one before, and even some cheap folders can 
And are excellent. I think there is a thread somewhee about cheap folders. I'll see if I can find it and let you know.


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## welsh dragon (12 Jul 2014)

London Female said:


> Thank you, that's a big help. I have been looking at dahon and we are going to try them this week. I may just go for a decathlon bfold 7 for my son as I think he will use it less often. We want something we can put in the car as hanging three bikes off the back of my car is not an option. We had such a great time all cycling together when we were in Amsterdam we would like to do more and folders will make that possible.



The thread is called decathlon (or other cheaper folding bikes).


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## London Female (12 Jul 2014)

welsh dragon said:


> The thread is called decathlon (or other cheaper folding bikes).



Thank you, I will have a look at that.


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## CopperBrompton (26 Jul 2014)

There's no substitute for a test-ride, but do a decent-length one. When I see people in this thread talking about Bromptons being suitable only for short distances, it makes no sense to me - I've ridden mine on 30-40 mile rides and been as comfortable as on any non-recumbent. A Brooks saddle makes a big difference.


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