# NHS- you can see why people go private



## numbnuts (8 Jul 2011)

I've been having a lot of pain in lower back, went to see my doctor on April 27th and told it maybe Sciatica and he made an appointment for the pain clinic at the local hospital
Hospital appointment 13[sup]th[/sup] May told I need a scan
Scan on 31[sup]th[/sup] May
next appointment 24[sup]th[/sup] August fror the pain clinic
It's a bloody good job I'm not working that's 17 weeks after I saw my own doctor, but I bet some people have been waiting much longer than I have


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## Tyke (8 Jul 2011)

I was last in hospital when I was 12 years old, until last year when I had the Heart Attack. Busy Bank Holiday Saturday afternoon walked into a hospital that has no A&E asking for help and they sent for the ambulance took care of me until it came then all blues and 2's to heart unit in Leeds. I was there and in the theater in 30 min and excellent treatment over the next few month's as an out patient in three hospitals.

I'm 55 next week and fitter now than I was ten years ago, but I can't help thinking you would not need to wait so long if less people went private as most of the doctors they see also work for the N.H.S. and can't do both at the same time.

Hang in there it wont be long until August now. I hope you get as good a service as I did and I'm sure it will be worth the wait.


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## vickster (8 Jul 2011)

Pain docs seem to be in particularly short supply, also we are in holiday time now which may also explain the wait? Always badger secretaries for a cancellation too 

Even if you have private insurance you can wait a while to see the top docs, probably because they only spend some of their time doing private work due to their NHS commitments


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

Private healthcare is not the answer- firstly, it isn't available to all like the NHS (small details etc permitting) - I understand your frustrations at the wait and hope there is a cancellation for you soon. Bear in mind that private patients get treated by NHS doctors that also do private work. When I worked in the NHS these doctors favoured and spent more time on those patients that paid. Private patients also often use the same resources that NHS places do ie scanners, staff, doctors etc etc, so it doesn't address the problem - allows for greed in some doctors that are already paid huge salaries and continues to create an elitist moneyed system. The NHS needs more input and don't get me started on the cost of certain services and medicines etc.


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## subaqua (8 Jul 2011)

this has to be the friday kick off thread


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## ufkacbln (8 Jul 2011)

subaqua said:


> this has to be the friday kick off thread



Within the 18 week target though!



More seriously - the last Goverment loaded Hospital Trusts with such massive debts that cutting staf and clinics is the only way to survive.


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## Adasta (8 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> Private healthcare is not the answer- firstly, it isn't available to all like the NHS (small details etc permitting) - I understand your frustrations at the wait and hope there is a cancellation for you soon. Bear in mind that private patients get treated by NHS doctors that also do private work. When I worked in the NHS these doctors favoured and spent more time on those patients that paid. Private patients also often use the same resources that NHS places do ie scanners, staff, doctors etc etc, so it doesn't address the problem - allows for greed in some doctors that are already paid huge salaries and continues to create an elitist moneyed system. The NHS needs more input and don't get me started on the cost of certain services and medicines etc.



I'm pretty divided on this. I think it's because of the fact that doctors are split across NHS and private.

Part of me thinks that there is no ethical problem with paying for healthcare. If you want to fly first class, for example, you pay the extra money for the extra "attention" - no problem. You're taxed anyway so you're still propping up the NHS even if you aren't using it.

But the shared resources in this instance *is* a problem. Of course doctors are going to do NHS and private work - can you blame them? While I think this is a problem, I don't think demonising a person's choice to pay for healthcare is an adequate response (I'm not saying that you are doing this, merely point out that I don't think it would be fair to do that).


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

I'm not demonising the choice, I just don't agree with it. Some of my family are on private healthcare but I would not choose to do so myself as a political choice. The issues within the NHS that need sorting out won't be addressed, it's just backdoor privatising of the NHS.


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## Adasta (8 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> I'm not demonising the choice, I just don't agree with it. Some of my family are on private healthcare but I would not choose to do so myself as a political choice. The issues within the NHS that need sorting out won't be addressed, it's just backdoor privatising of the NHS.



But when it comes to health it becomes less clear. I can't blame a person for wanting to be cured of an ailment. What I can blame is mis-management. I can see your point and agree that the NHS needs reform and needs to be considered as an instrument for healing the sick, not as an ideological tool. But if a person wants/needs an operation and can do it 9 months quicker by going private, I find it had to begrudge him/her that.

Unless it's for gout.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

My issue with that is it increasingly allows those with cash to get a preferential treatment - a growing trend which creates such a divide. Having the money does not necessarily prioritise you for treatment. I know this is due to my political leanings but the example you give of a flight - as you recognise the NHS is not the same in context but the idea that people can just buy themselves anything they want is abhorrent and crass to me. I get annoyed with those BUPA adverts as the NHS has just become so eroded and understaffed and target based culture undermines it.


Rant rant rant!!


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## Adasta (8 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> My issue with that is it increasingly allows those with cash to get a preferential treatment - a growing trend which creates such a divide. Having the money does not necessarily prioritise you for treatment. I know this is due to my political leanings but the example you give of a flight - as you recognise the NHS is not the same in context but the idea that people can just buy themselves anything they want is abhorrent and crass to me. I get annoyed with those BUPA adverts as the NHS has just become so eroded and understaffed and target based culture undermines it.
> 
> 
> Rant rant rant!!



You filthy red.

Jesting, of course. Removing choice doesn't work well for humans, that's my only problem. I firmly believe in the NHS, though.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

I'm not talking about removing choice - there is this confusion that left wing radicalism is often devoid of choice - I just don't believe in a market creating choice or choices based entirely upon capital as that creates inequality in choices.

I am not after shades of grey in the world, however conversely I don't think we need all the differing types of toothpastes if you know what I mean


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## vickster (8 Jul 2011)

But if people go private does it not reduce the burden on the NHS? Not like we are paying less tax, or that the NHS costs aren't increasing (yes, certainly the mis-management and over-management needs sorting...the last Government despite their political leanings are pretty damn guilty in this respect). The population is growing, we are ageing, we are living longer with chronic illness and costs are spiralling (the same in every country).

My example - I have private insurance through work (nothing to do with being taken in by a BUPA ad), for which I am taxed (yes, I am lucky to have this perk, the sector I work in is competitive, need to attract staff). I also pay tax, NI, VAT, VED, council tax etc etc and do so without (too much) bitching which goes towards paying for the NHS...

I have had knee issues for nearly 2 years - initially seen at A&E, a couple of GP visits and referred to orthopaedic surgeon...X-ray and bloods done on NHS then every appointment, scans, physio appointment and 2 operations done at private hospitals, no use of NHS resources. I have seen my GP for pain meds and to keep her informed of what was happening but no NHS hospital treatment.	My knee has probably cost the PHC company £15k at least (I see the bills, haven't totted them all up). I may have had a further surgery if appropriate which is not routinely even available on the NHS being experimental - not enough data for NICE to approve it - if there weren't people having it done privately, the data will never be available (I had to argue long and hard with the PHC company to get them to sign off). There is a possibility of more surgery which will cost another 10k no doubt with pre-hab, surgery, post-op care and rehab!

IF I had had all of this done on the NHS, yes it would have taken longer, but it still would have happened and I would have used those resources - 15+ physio sessions, 10 surgeon appointments, more X-rays, 2 MRIs and 2 operations. 

I remember having a discussion with my first surgeon who is an immense supporter of the NHS (yes he has a private practice but still works at least 3 days a week in the NHS, I don't see him as a golfer  ) - he said some of the waste in the NHS was phenomenal, months paying consultants to undertake superfluous projects that could have been completed much more quickly or were simply unnecessary. I don't think you can blame people having private HC for that!

I am a supporter of the NHS, always have been, fantastic, we are supremely lucky to have it, especially when you look at the system elsewhere (the mess the US healthcare system is in is terrifying).

Ramble over


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## Adasta (8 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> I am not after shades of grey in the world, however conversely I don't think we need all the differing types of toothpastes if you know what I mean



I think you might love this:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWXO87TlH4[/media]


'Same for all! SAME, SAME, SAME!'


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## Flying Dodo (8 Jul 2011)

About 6 years ago, my wife suddenly starting suffering from severe groin and lower back pain. In A&E, they ummed and arred about whether it might be her appendix or an ectopic pregnancy, and let her stay in a ward for 2 days without doing any tests apart from a pregnancy one, before releasing her, and referring her to have follow up treatment at the pain clinic. 

Day 3 she went to see a BUPA consultant at a private hospital, had an immediate MRI scan which identified severe issues in her spine resulting in rapid surgery to fuse various bones and insert a titanium cage. She had to be in a wheelchair for some time and have further spinal surgery. About 8 months later she had to visit A&E on a completely different issue and they mentioned in passing that it was handy she'd popped in, as she was due to have the next day her scheduled MRI scan arranged from 8 months earlier!!!!

Apart from that, the NHS is wonderful.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

I agree there are some real issues within the NHS - there was a whole floor on the ground floor of the building I worked in which had been refurbished several times and for those times was not used for months so the money was spent on projected projects that never materialised - I agree there is mismanagement. I'm not suggesting that people with private healthcare are to blame for that nowhere in my posts do I suggest that.

I just take issue with the fact that the quality of care should by default be higher without privatisation or private health care coming into it. Those issues don't get tackled - PFIs and Foundation Trusts don't answer those questions and certainly, pharmaceutical companies making a nice mint and horrendous profit from medicines etc is all part of a similar system of greed. Making the NHS 'competitive' just means that hospitals fight each other in bidding wars- it's horrible to see and hasn't resolved most of the original issues.

Vickster it seems that in your case not all your services were leeching off the NHS resources but I've seen first hand a lot of this happening in practice.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> About 6 years ago, my wife suddenly starting suffering from severe groin and lower back pain. In A&E, they ummed and arred about whether it might be her appendix or an ectopic pregnancy, and let her stay in a ward for 2 days without doing any tests apart from a pregnancy one, before releasing her, and referring her to have follow up treatment at the pain clinic.
> 
> Day 3 she went to see a BUPA consultant at a private hospital, had an immediate MRI scan which identified severe issues in her spine resulting in rapid surgery to fuse various bones and insert a titanium cage. She had to be in a wheelchair for some time and have further spinal surgery. About 8 months later she had to visit A&E on a completely different issue and they mentioned in passing that it was handy she'd popped in, as she was due to have the next day her scheduled MRI scan arranged from 8 months earlier!!!!
> 
> Apart from that, the NHS is wonderful.




That is really bad and sounds quite traumatic!
Though it sounds more like the A&E staff really were clueless - I'm not defending that but often MRIs and high cost procedures aren't used as a first port of call due to their expense.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

Adasta said:


> I think you might love this:
> 
> [media]
> ]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWXO87TlH4[/media]
> ...




Err I couldn't watch all of it - it was a little too kitsch for me! lol- thanks for the sentiments 'comrade' ahem!!


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## Adasta (8 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> Err I couldn't watch all of it - it was a little too kitsch for me! lol- thanks for the sentiments 'comrade' ahem!!



Well, you can be too red, then...


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## vickster (8 Jul 2011)

But how else do pharmaceutical companies pay for their R&D...12 years and at least $1bn to develop a drug...95%+ of new chemical entities fail in pre-clinical trials - never make it out of the lab but have still cost millions in development. Can't see governments funding this...the companies also employ thousands upon thousands of people globally - in their companies but also in universities etc, support the scientific community, yes, they make profit, but they do pay $$$ in taxes - and it is a very risky business... 

Pharmaceutical companies do actually provide something of use (ok you can argue that some drugs do more harm than good, are addictive, have side effects etc, but where would the treatment of cancer be, diabetes be, we would still have nasty, dirty anaesthetics and not to mention erectile dysfunction


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## Flying Dodo (8 Jul 2011)

Although on the flip side, *without* pharmaceutical R&D, we wouldn't have to suffer umpteen thousands of spam emails for Viagra!


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

Adasta said:


> Well, you can be too red, then...



Hahah, I'm a different shade of red.

Vickster, the thing is it comes down to drugs being over inflated in price- some countries/counties really need a drug but can't afford to access it (this is a global situation and not just one of the UK/NHS).

Yes, I believe that research and development is a vital thing but I'm thinking of looking at this laterally - it's the profit. Is that necessary and what is the ethics of that? Especially in restriction to access. You do mention that governments won't fund research but they end up doing so by proxy of paying for the extra/higher costs in medicines.

Not everyone feels the same way about access in that egalitarian way but what I feel is a wider political thing. Need not greed inho.


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

Flying Dodo said:


> Although on the flip side, *without* pharmaceutical R&D, we wouldn't have to suffer umpteen thousands of spam emails for Viagra!



haha yes!


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## PK99 (8 Jul 2011)

a few years ago, i had Carpal tunnel syndrome, easily self diagnosed and confirmed by GP. Splinting and anti inflammatory meds worked for a few months but eventually the pain was disabling. GP referred me to orthropods.

Instead of an orthropod, i was booked in with a rheumatologist, 6/8 weeks to appointment. Recommended Nerve conduction test to confirm the diagnosis. 6/8 weeks to appointment. Teccie said it was one of the clearest cases he had seen. 6/8 weeks to see rheumatologist again to get result of test. CT syndrome confirmed, operation needed, would need to see Orthropod (where and when had i heard that before?) but 12 week waiting list.

Several weeks later appointment letter arrived - for another visit to the rheumatologist in 6/8 weeks.

I was clear i was being managed away from the orthropods to keep the waiting list to the 12 week limit (or whatever the limit was)

I lost patience and asked my gp for a private referral to the local bupa hospital, saw a consultant within days and was offered an operation within days. i did not then have private health cover and paid the full cost myself.

****
I had a similar experience with a knee problem a year or so later, when GP was up front and said the 12 week waiting time was a fiction and it would be much longer before i could see and orthropod - i went private and paid for my own MRI scan

*****

A few months ago an NHS hospital had my wife for 36 hours lost her twice in that time with staff wandering round looking for her, they discharged her with an undiagnosed fractured shoulder as one of the people who could not fid her was the x ray porter.
30 minutes in a bupa hospital a few days later and the shoulder was x rayed and diagnosed.

****

a few years ago, my 9 year old daughter was booked in for a very minor fracture manipulation under general anaesthetic at 9am. no food from 9pm, she went down the theatre at 1600hrs - the theatre had been blocked all day by walk-ins needing to be dealt with within 4 hours- my daughter was no ones statistic to manage

****

Generally the people in the NHS are good hardworking professionals, but the system lets them and patients down

****

Rant over!


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## vickster (8 Jul 2011)

Ultimately, pharma has made its profits from the blockbusters that were launched 10-15 years ago (the anti-hypertensives, the statins, the anti-depressants, the painkillers), those where the patents are now expiring, not the niche drugs for cancer and the like that cost £1000s a month for a relatively small number of patients in the developed world which make it onto Breakfast News and into the Daily Mail... but still cost millions to develop (and where the failure rate in development is undoubtedly even higher)

The NHS drugs budget is massive, not solely because of the cost of the drugs - something like 75% of the population don't pay (among others, children, older folks, diabetics, contraception is free) (and in Scotland no one does, wales not sure?). And then people fill the prescriptions for the drugs they don't pay for (but have to be funded), don't take the pills, get sicker, end up needing more treatment, more drugs they don't take...

I'd far rather pharma companies made profit and continue to plough a large proportion of that into R&D...than banks, no win-no fee lawyers, evil landlords, estate agents... 

Rant over


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## ttcycle (8 Jul 2011)

anyway, that's me signing off- I've got all my profits to count



hahah


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## fossyant (8 Jul 2011)

Don't get me started. Two weeks after my RTA my GP and physio (went private as I was told no chance NHS) said you need that shoulder decompressing.

Took two years to get it done on the NHS. Not blaming them, but if you are fit and active, you won't be a priority.

5 months on from my op, and my shoulder, whilst mechanically fixed, is far more painful than before. Don't get to see my surgeon for another 7 weeks (this will be *6 months* after he operated) so phoned and got OK to get physio - oh and I've got to pay for that as well.

£2k on physio after accident, and now again to start paying to get shoulder OK. It's 95% there for movement, to someone not active it would be OK, but I can't carry anything heavy (e.g. suitcase) or indeed sprint hard on the bike nor climb 20-25% hills any more. 

Hissed off I is...more at the third party's flippin insurers who won't pay any more interim expenses (over £1300 out of pocket).

NHS is great, but don't expect any priority if fit and active. TBH preventative care will cut bills long term, but unfortunately they aren't funded like that. 

My medical records have statements like 'it can't hurt that much as he does heavy duty cycling', that was one comment when the consultant was shoving steroids into my shoulder (which didn't work) about would it affect me the next day as I was riding to work, riding to one of Dan_bo's track sessions and two hours on the track, you should have seen her face.  I got a copy given to me by my GP (who is actually really good).

NHS - treatment/GP great. System/waiting/referrals = crap !


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## Tyke (9 Jul 2011)

How come all these great private doctors are trained by the N.H.S. work part time for the N.H.S. to do private work which could be done for the N.H.S.and in some cases is done in N.H.S.hospitals as private work.

If we train them to to be the best then we should expect them to be the best when we need them not just when we can afford them.

Support the FREE N.H.S. at point of need as it was meant to be 65 years ago when started the private patients still expect it when things go wrong.


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## Flying Dodo (9 Jul 2011)

Tyke said:


> Support the FREE N.H.S. at point of need as it was meant to be 65 years ago when started the private patients still expect it when things go wrong.



Except that's not actually the case. The situation we have today is precisely down to the way the NHS was set up, and the original contracts offered to the doctors at the time.


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## Andrew_P (9 Jul 2011)

I think the NHS should and could be means tested, those earning above a certain figure should have to top up with Private Health care, but still be able to use the NHS.

My Wife suffered with bone to bone arthritis in her left hip for three years, 2.5 years she was treated with Physio to the knee as all the pain reffered to there in the last 6 months she was in Agony couldn't even lay in bed, I paid for some private clinic to X-Ray and treat, they like the NHS X-Rayed the knee and it only showed mild signs hence the NHS would only offer Physio, then they X-Rayed the left hip which the NHS should have done as it is fairly common for hip pain to refer to the knee, and there it was bone to bone.

She got reffered and luckly we live near the EPOC centre of excellence joint replacement centre and her treatment and end result where fantastic. Sop god bless the NHS for that.


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## Number14 (9 Jul 2011)

ttcycle said:


> Private healthcare is not the answer-* firstly, it isn't available to all like the NHS* (small details etc permitting) - I understand your frustrations at the wait and hope there is a cancellation for you soon. Bear in mind that private patients get treated by NHS doctors that also do private work. When I worked in the NHS these doctors favoured and spent more time on those patients that paid. Private patients also often use the same resources that NHS places do ie scanners, staff, doctors etc etc, so it doesn't address the problem - allows for greed in some doctors that are already paid huge salaries and continues to create an elitist moneyed system. The NHS needs more input and don't get me started on the cost of certain services and medicines etc.



I would like to correct you on that one.

The NHS is moving towards "Any Willing/Qualified Provider" for commissioning healthcare. Your local Primary Care Trust could, in theory, refer you to a private provider if the cost is comparable to the NHS.

I work for a private Healthcare provider and we have a patient from "up north" travelling over 200 miles who is booked in for an NHS paid-for pain management procedure next week.


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## cyberknight (9 Jul 2011)

I get private health care through work , family covered for £20 a month, silly not to at that price.


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## vickster (9 Jul 2011)

Tyke said:


> How come all these great private doctors are trained by the N.H.S. work part time for the N.H.S. to do private work which could be done for the N.H.S.and in some cases is done in N.H.S.hospitals as private work.
> 
> If we train them to to be the best then we should expect them to be the best when we need them not just when we can afford them.



If the top doctors could not do a mix of private work with their NHS work, I suspect that they would only do private work. Some of the top orthopaedic surgeons do exactly this and have no problem subsisting. 

Surely better to allow the mix and then there is no brain drain from the NHS - all patients continue have access to the top folks.


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## ufkacbln (9 Jul 2011)

Probably shouldn't say this, but when it comes to scanning...

We have some equipment in our Trust that we cannot use because NuLabour gave the contract for all our patients to a private company.... we are not allowed to do NHS patients in an NHS Hospital!

We sit there with the machine doing about 3 - 4 patients a week when it could do 50, and all the patients have to travel some distance to the private machine.


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## lulubel (10 Jul 2011)

Since moving to Spain, I've gone private for everything, and will continue to. It isn't that the Spanish health service is particularly bad - in fact, everything I've heard about it is good - but I don't speak enough Spanish to understand medical terms, so I want a English speaking doctor. Since "going private" for the last 2 years, I wouldn't do anything else now. I pay on an individual appointment basis for routine things, and have insurance to cover anything serious. I've been able to "shop around" and find medical professionals who listen to me rather than talking down to me, and the whole process of being unwell has been far less stressful and distressing.

My last stay in an NHS hospital was with a chest infection and life threatening asthma attack over the millenium. They took 8 hours to diagnose the problem (even though I told the first doctor I saw right after I was wheeled in on a trolley that I had a severe chest infection and needed antibiotics), and I ended up staying in hospital for a week. It probably would have been 3 or 4 days at most if they'd bothered to listen to me, and treated me immediately.


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## al-fresco (10 Jul 2011)

I don't have a problem with people 'going private' but I do have a problem with NHS doctors who also do private work - because it creates a conflict of interest. If waiting times are lowered then there is less incentive for patients to pay for private treatment - therefore it is in a practitioner's interest to keep waiting times at a level that will ensure that at least some of their patients will pay to get to the front of the queue.


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## fossyant (10 Jul 2011)

Many consultant's have two or more 'jobs' on top of their NHS work. Mr shoulder consultant works in a few places, his colleague runs one of the top shoulder clinics, as well as NHS. The 'independent' consultant that was appointed for me to see for the PI side of my accident, is based at my local hospital (he was seeing patients opposite my consultant's rooms), he also works at one of the Private hospitals, has 3 or 4 'offices' and works for this private company assessing folk's injuries from accidents. Bit of a money earner for him. TBH not a job I'd like as they don't have regular hours, and all seem to be working many many hours in their various 'roles'.


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## Fiona N (10 Jul 2011)

numbnuts said:


> ...
> Scan on 31[sup]th[/sup] May
> ...



Think yourself lucky - you actually got a scan. 

I was due to go for a lower back/pelvis scan a couple of years ago - between by physio and my GP they arranged me a date at quite short notice. I got to the hospital but had to see the orthopedic registrar first. He decided, on no real information, that I didn't need a scan - waste of money for a middle aged woman obviously - and sent me for an X-ray. When I spoke to the radiographer and told her what had happened she was incandescent as she knew (as apparently the registrar didn't) that X-rays only show bone damage and I knew what that was, having had the problem for 20 years (the radiographer also knew as she'd x-rayed me about 5 years previously and dug out the old ones). What the physio wanted was the soft tissue scan to see where the problems were associated with the bone damage. The radiographer rang the registrar and although I couldn't hear the words, the tenor of the conversation was clear and he wasn't budging. So the radiographer took one oblique X-ray (you don't see much with an normal orthogonal view) which I then had to wait to see the registrar to discuss. He looked at the x-ray and seemed perplexed about why it was oblique - I had to explain what he was seeing!!!! Hell, I know my title's doctor but it's not of the medical variety. This guy was about as much use as a car mechanic would have been (at the hospital - I'm not maligning the competance of mechanics in general with cars).

I actually wrote a letter to my GP describing the situation, with the request that he pass it on as appropriate. No idea what happened although the orthopedic registrar wasn't there a few months later when I needed an X-ray for a badly sprained ankle.


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## rowan 46 (10 Jul 2011)

A couple of years ago I was having problems, I saw the doctor and a week later was in the hospital having tests a fortnight later started treatment for cancer. The treatment seems to have worked and I am still alive. There has been one more recurrance but all clear now. I am looking forward to getting back to full time work getting some of this blubber off me and I just wanted to say respect to the NHS it has been wonderful for me from the staff to the treatment all first class


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## Berlinbybike (22 Jul 2011)

I suppose we all have anecdotes on the lottery that the NHS can be. If you want a glimpse of what the free market offers - in the absence of anything else - consider the health system in the US. The words insane, obscene, ridiculous apply. If the NHS "reforms" continue, that's what we'll get.


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## Flying Dodo (22 Jul 2011)

Berlinbybike said:


> I suppose we all have anecdotes on the lottery that the NHS can be. If you want a glimpse of what the free market offers - in the absence of anything else - consider the health system in the US. The words insane, obscene, ridiculous apply. If the NHS "reforms" continue, that's what we'll get.




If you analyse it, you could equally apply those words to the original NHS.


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## screenman (22 Jul 2011)

Why should the people who earn more pay more? seems a bit wrong to me, as they already support many non payers.


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## rsvdaz (23 Jul 2011)

i've had my experiences with the NHS and also paid for some private consultations to get the ball rolling..I do find that he who shouts loudest gets to the front of the queue first with regard to NHS.

for example...I had a knee injury in an accident I couldnt weight bear and nothing was showing on the x-ray..I was told to go home and rest and wait for an MRI scan..expect to get one in 12-16 weeks!.....by not weight baring I couldnt drive and therefore couldnt work and simply couldnt wait that amount a time for a diagnosis never mind the treatment.

So I get on the phone to radiologist and to be truthful made a nuisance of my-self - I got an MRi scan the following thursday.

Follow up appt to see an ortho - upyo 12 weeks - found out the knee man was doing private consulatation at the local private unit...2 - days for 95quid.

turns out I had a tibial-platua fracture, meniscus tears and a ruptured ACL


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## Cris S (24 Jul 2011)

numbnuts said:


> I've been having a lot of pain in lower back, went to see my doctor on April 27th and told it maybe Sciatica and he made an appointment for the pain clinic at the local hospital
> Hospital appointment 13[sup]th[/sup] May told I need a scan
> Scan on 31[sup]th[/sup] May
> next appointment 24[sup]th[/sup] August fror the pain clinic
> It's a bloody good job I'm not working that's 17 weeks after I saw my own doctor, but I bet some people have been waiting much longer than I have



Hello

Can I just say that your problem is NOT life threatning and whilst you are waiting to have your back looked they the NHS
are saving many many lives on a daily basis. My wife has a life threatning condition and always but always gets an ambulance
when required and is seen immediately on arrival at the hospital which on occasions has saved her life.

I get really really angry when I hear people whinging because they have a bit of pain and have to wait a few weeks to be seen
about a pain 

Think on all you NHS whingers.

Sorry but people who moan about the NHS really make me angry.


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## lulubel (25 Jul 2011)

Cris S said:


> Can I just say that your problem is NOT life threatning and whilst you are waiting to have your back looked they the NHS
> are saving many many lives on a daily basis.



I know you weren't quoting me, but I want to respond to this anyway because I DO have a life threatening condition, and my experiences of the NHS have been far less than satisfactory.

I was even told by an asthma nurse (when I went for my initial health check at a new surgery after moving house) that I didn't have asthma, and to go away and stop wasting her time. I should have reported her, but I was young, and instead I left the surgery in tears. Fortunately, it wasn't the only surgery in the town, and I managed to register at the other one.

I'm very glad now that I now live in Spain and can just buy my inhalers over the counter at the pharmacy, and I also pay less than half the amount I paid for the NHS prescription charges in the UK.


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