# No wonder we get a bad name



## dusty605 (6 Oct 2016)

So I'm on my motorbike this evening riding to work instead of cycling for a change and there are cyclists everywhere, obviously some club meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Oxford by the way.


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## Shut Up Legs (6 Oct 2016)

They don't give me a bad name, because they don't represent me in any way. Just because they're cyclists and I'm a cyclist doesn't imply there's any connection between us.


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## mickle (6 Oct 2016)

Nah.


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## dusty605 (6 Oct 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> They don't give me a bad name, because they don't represent me in any way. Just because they're cyclists and I'm a cyclist doesn't imply there's any connection between us.


I agree, however, all too often I'm tarred with the same brush.


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## Pat "5mph" (6 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> I agree, however, all too often I'm tarred with the same brush.


Me and the ones you met tonight? Not remotely similar, but I get where you come from.


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## alecstilleyedye (6 Oct 2016)

you should see cambridge on a saturday; folk on aged bso's practically pushing japanese tourists out of the way as they speed past…


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Oct 2016)

So I'm on my bike this evening riding to work instead of motorcycling for a change and there are motorcyclists everywhere, obviously some chapter meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us bikers a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Sussexshire by the way.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Oct 2016)

So I'm walking from work this evening going to work instead of cycling for a change and there are pedestrians everywhere, obviously some meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is their smart phones. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us pedestrians a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the running track and get off the road. This is in Londonshire by the way.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Oct 2016)

So I'm on my driving this evening to work instead of cycling for a change and there are cars everywhere, obviously some rush hour. No regard for traffic laws, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us drivers a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike each other and everyone else There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Everywhereshire by the way.


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## GrumpyGregry (6 Oct 2016)

There is no we, them, or us, by the way.


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## dim (6 Oct 2016)

alecstilleyedye said:


> you should see cambridge on a saturday; folk on aged bso's practically pushing japanese tourists out of the way as they speed past…



LOL ... the cycle path between Shelford and Cambride station has become a race track for cyclists .... the guided busway path between Milton road and St Ives is even worse on weekends ....

still, they are great if you want to cycle at speed ... I ride as fast as I can on both mentioned 

my biggest fear when cycling in the city of cambridge is not buses or taxi's ... it's international students in a hurry on rented bikes ... especially those students from far east counties who drive on the opposite side of the road in their own countries


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## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Oct 2016)

So.

Stop using it to start sentences.


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## ianrauk (6 Oct 2016)

Oh lookey.. another too many cyclists on the road inconveniencing motorists thread.


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## 400bhp (6 Oct 2016)

OP - this is worth a read.

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/09/the-lions-share/


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## r04DiE (6 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> ... No regard for traffic...


They _are_ traffic.


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## dusty605 (7 Oct 2016)

r04DiE said:


> They _are_ traffic.


No regard for other traffic then


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## dusty605 (7 Oct 2016)

I don't care how many cyclists are on the road, I'm a cyclist, I care that there was a disregard to other road users.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2016)

What's your view on motorcyclists who plant themselves in the cycle box beyond the white stop line, which is designed for bicycles only? Do motorcyclists know that this is the case?

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Advanced-Stop-Lines/1400018009433/1400018009433

Or scooter riders who use cycle lanes?


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

Sigh ...


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

Oh dammit. You win. I lose. I can't resist joining in.

Did you know that at at noon you will find 45% of drivers on motorways breaking the speed limit, 48% of drivers in 30 limits, and 82% of drivers in 20 limits.
Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/spe01-vehicle-speeds

Yet you see a small group of cyclists not doing anything illegal, but irritating you by just being cyclists and being in your way and you find cause to complain.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2016)

I'd like to know what the percentage of motorcyclists breaking the speed limit in urban areas is. About 90% ride up the 40 limit DC near my house at 60+. At night it sounds to be used for racing


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## Pale Rider (7 Oct 2016)

Integrating a large number of cyclists with other traffic - in the few places where there is a large number of cyclists - is not easy.

What appears to have happened here is the cycling group has made it's way to the front of the queue at a red light.

They are entitled to do that, but they will have created a slow moving road block when the lights turned green.

Rather than having a pop at the (newly joined) OP, it might be more helpful if those who regularly ride in large groups in traffic would share their experience.


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## EnPassant (7 Oct 2016)

400bhp said:


> OP - this is worth a read.
> 
> http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/09/the-lions-share/


Bookmarked. I learned today


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## e-rider (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> So I'm on my motorbike this evening riding to work instead of cycling for a change and there are cyclists everywhere, obviously some club meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Oxford by the way.


I saw a guy speeding in his car using a mobile phone at the same time - are all car drivers labeled this way?


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## Brand X (7 Oct 2016)

r04DiE said:


> They _are_ traffic.



They're arrogant planks. I swear one of these days I'm going to see a pack of riders blocking the road, blast my horn and just barge right through them. There is no excuse for their BS. Them and people who ride at speed through pedestrianized areas.


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## gavintc (7 Oct 2016)

Brand X said:


> They're arrogant planks. I swear one of these days I'm going to see a pack of riders blocking the road, blast my horn and just barge right through them. There is no excuse for their BS. Them and people who ride at speed through pedestrianized areas.


M27 was pretty blocked this morning. No excuse for their BS. I tried blasting my horn, but it had no effect and I did not think it wise to barge right through.


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## Andrew_Culture (7 Oct 2016)

Brand X said:


> They're arrogant planks. I swear one of these days I'm going to see a pack of riders blocking the road, blast my horn and just barge right through them. There is no excuse for their BS. Them and people who ride at speed through pedestrianized areas.



Yup, that has been done before. There was much death.


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## PhilDawson8270 (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> So I'm on my motorbike this evening riding to work instead of cycling for a change and there are cyclists everywhere, obviously some club meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Oxford by the way.



So you're on a motorcycle, and are complaining that cyclists filtered the queue, and made it so busy you couldn't race off the lights like you normally would?


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## PhilDawson8270 (7 Oct 2016)

e-rider said:


> I saw a guy speeding in his car using a mobile phone at the same time - are all car drivers labeled this way?


On here they are


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## r04DiE (7 Oct 2016)

Brand X said:


> They're arrogant planks.


They are traffic, as I've already pointed out. Go and look in the dictionary at the definition: traffic, and you'll see what I mean.


> I swear one of these days I'm going to see a pack of riders blocking the road, blast my horn and just barge right through them.


Do you realise that comments like this just make you look like an arrogant prick?


> There is no excuse for their BS.


And there is no excuse for your coming on here and acting like a complete idiot, but that's not stopping you, is it?


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## MontyVeda (7 Oct 2016)

So i was cycling down the shared use track and this huge group of joggers blah blah blah....


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## dusty605 (7 Oct 2016)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> So you're on a motorcycle, and are complaining that cyclists filtered the queue, and made it so busy you couldn't race off the lights like you normally would?


I don't race off the lights, I ride sensibly thank you very much. Racing is for tracks as I've said.


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## snorri (7 Oct 2016)

Bad name? Do cyclists really have a bad name?
Most non-cyclists I know hold me in awe and struggle to accept my unbounding energy proven by my ability to cycle out five miles and get back home on the same day.


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## dusty605 (7 Oct 2016)

I give up, some of you are obviously Oxford cyclists that feel it's ok to have a disregard for other traffic around you. Some peoples attitudes truly suck.


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## PhilDawson8270 (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> I don't race off the lights, I ride sensibly thank you very much. Racing is for tracks as I've said.



So you was just annoyed that you had to wait behind slower traffic? Or was it the cheek they had to filter at the lights that annoyed you? By disregard, you mean they should know their place and wait behind other traffic>


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## benb (7 Oct 2016)

Even if there was something wrong with the way these cyclists were behaving, which has by no means been shown to be the case, only an ignorant tool would extrapolate that to disliking all cyclists because of it.

A motorcyclist undertook me at speed and way too close the other day. I don't hate all motorcyclists because of that, because I'm not a moron.


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## r04DiE (7 Oct 2016)

User said:


> ^^^


Yep, OK - I totally get that.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> I give up, some of you are obviously Oxford cyclists that feel it's ok to have a disregard for other traffic around you. Some peoples attitudes truly suck.


I have plenty of regard for other traffic, given that it could kill me. 

That doesn't mean that I consider it more important than me. Just more dangerous.

If there's an ASL at lights I will* filter to the front and position myself centrally behind the ASL. If the result that some chap on a motorcycle might have his day completely ruined by having 15 seconds added to his journey, well ... I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

* unless circumstances dictate otherwise, like a big vehicle that I'd prefer to stay behind.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2016)

Remind me again what they did to show disregard for other traffic, other than filter to the front why they are perfectly entitled to do...just like motorbikes except they are allowed in the cyclist box (not that many motorbikes seem able to grasp that fact at least around London)


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4500711, member: 9609"]I would be really interested in looking at those tables, but how do I open an ODS ? (I have excel but it won't open them)[/QUOTE]
I can't help you there I'm afraid. ODS is an open standard for spreadsheets. They opened automatically in excel for me.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2016)

User said:


> They beset him on all sides.


What did Moses do in that circumstance?


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## MiK1138 (7 Oct 2016)

That is Mrs Miks pet hate, it is so prevelant on TV these days


Marmion said:


> So.
> 
> Stop using it to start sentences.


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## Leaway2 (7 Oct 2016)

[QUOTE 4500711, member: 9609"]I would be really interested in looking at those tables, but how do I open an ODS ? (I have excel but it won't open them)[/QUOTE]
Libre office will open them. It is free and will also open almost every other document. Use it instead of M$ office.


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## bozmandb9 (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> So I'm on my motorbike this evening riding to work instead of cycling for a change and there are cyclists everywhere, obviously some club meeting. No regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other. I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit the track and get off the road. This is in Oxford by the way.



I'm local to Oxfod, and do club rides out of Oxford. I'm sitting here scratching my head, and wondering about what the message is here. Presumably everywhere means in many different areas of the road. This is difficult to get around, since once one bit of road is already occupied by a cyclist, you generally need to find another.

Then, apparently said cyclists stopped at a red light. Hhhhmmm. Well usually the complaint is that we don't.... Ho hum. And the cyclists progressed along the road when the lights were green... Did you get any descriptions, was there CCTV? They should probably all be proscuted for progressing on a green light.. Bloocy cyclists, oh, hand on, green you say...

I know what you mean though. I've been caught at a green light surrounded by cars, bastards, all around me. Must call 999 next time.

Not sure what the behaviour is that gives us a bad name. Cycling in groups? Stopping at red lights, going on green, occupying different bits of the highway? Anyway, drivers on the whole dislike most other drivers, and pedestrians.... and their passengers, not to mention tractors, horseriders, and worst of all caravaners!


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## Lozz360 (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> I give up, some of *you are obviously Oxford cyclists* that feel it's ok to have a disregard for other traffic around you. Some peoples attitudes truly suck.


I'm a cyclist from Oxford. 'Spose that makes me an Oxford cyclist by definition. The term appears as an insult above. I don't quite get the reason for that? (I don't disregard other traffic either).


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## glasgowcyclist (7 Oct 2016)

Brand X said:


> They're arrogant pricks. I swear one of these days I'm going to see a pack of riders blocking the road, blast my horn and just barge right through them.



Are you that arrogant prick James Martin?


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> there are cyclists everywhere, . . . . I stopped at a set of lights only to get swamped on all sides as they turned green with no where for me to go.


Dusty
Please would you describe what behaviour the cyclists should have adopted in the circumstances you described which would uphold the good name of Oxford cyclists?
Isn't it great that there are cyclists everywhere, especially in a city like Oxford (only there myself for 3 years bitd, but cycling through and around 10 days ago)? There's a lot of traffic in the city isn't there: most of it stationary, so it was reasonably easy to filter to and through the various lights.
Presumably that the cyclists stopped at the (assumed) red light is a 'good thing' and should maintain their (collective) good name?
When the lights turned green, what would you like the cyclists to do? Wait till you had moved off or clear off quickly themselves 'racing', giving you space to be confident (of your and others' safety) when you moved off? I guess that on a motorbike you're no more stable than they are on push bikes.
Or do you think that any more than a very few cyclists should not filter through traffic to the ASL? How would this work, btw?
How much space (in cm) should cyclists allow a motorcyclist, to avoid him/her feeling 'swamped'?
How much space (in cm) should cyclists allow another cyclist, to avoid him/her feeling 'swamped'?


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## Mugshot (7 Oct 2016)

I was at some lights a little while ago when I had a motorcycle pull up on either side of me, two young lads on their way to the McDonalds about 50 yds further on. One on a 125 scrambler type and the other on a scooter. We had a chat and decided a drag race was in order (funnily enough there was a guy on a Ducati in the next lane over but we didn't bother inviting him) the scrambler was just too quick off the mark but I beat the guy on the scooter. I would imagine he had the bad name after that!


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## User16625 (7 Oct 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> I'm local to Oxfod, and do club rides out of Oxford. I'm sitting here scratching my head, and wondering about what the message is here. Presumably everywhere means in many different areas of the road. This is difficult to get around, since once one bit of road is already occupied by a cyclist, you generally need to find another.
> 
> Then, apparently said cyclists stopped at a red light. Hhhhmmm. Well usually the complaint is that we don't.... Ho hum. And the cyclists progressed along the road when the lights were green... Did you get any descriptions, was there CCTV? They should probably all be proscuted for progressing on a green light.. Bloocy cyclists, oh, hand on, green you say...
> 
> ...




With good reason tho. I dont mind people who are odd, but why do they have to be odd in such a way that it infuriates everyone else? They are essentially rolling road blocks.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

bozmandb9 said:


> Anyway, drivers on the whole dislike most other drivers, and pedestrians.... and their _*passengers*_, not to mention tractors, horseriders, and worst of all caravaners!


Don't get me started. Fiddling with the radio. Turning the heating on. Turning the heating off. And they don't pay road tax.


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## bozmandb9 (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> I give up, some of you are obviously Oxford cyclists that feel it's ok to have a disregard for other traffic around you. Some peoples attitudes truly suck.



I'm confused. Still not sure how using the road, stopping at red lights, progressing when they go greed, and being a cyclist is having disregard for other traffic. Often I am 'other traffic' when I'm driving rather than cycling, and I have no problem with the dreaded infamous "Oxford cyclist" prowling round in their feral packs, on their dastardly club rides.

Not always perfect. My ride passed another small group ride a couple of weeks back, and their riding etiquette was far from perfect. But then people may say that about me. Certainly I find drivers who's driving leaves something to be desired, and it's quite possible that mine is not always regarded as perfect by all other road users.


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## John the Monkey (7 Oct 2016)

Swamping Dusty!
And you're to blame!
You give bikes - A bad name!

(& seq)


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## r04DiE (7 Oct 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> Swamping Dusty!
> And you're to blame!
> You give bikes - A bad name!
> 
> (& seq)


Post of the week?


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## r04DiE (7 Oct 2016)

... oh, and I just want to apologise to @dusty605 for insulting you. I shouldn't have done that.


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2016)

r04DiE said:


> ... oh, and I just want to apologise to @dusty605 for insulting you. I shouldn't have done that.


@dusty605 @r04DiE has got confused. It was @Brand X he insulted. (Or his post insulting you has been deleted.) But @Brand X was just (successfully) trolling.


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## Bollo (7 Oct 2016)

This is fun. My turn....

So I'm on the starship Enterprise this evening exploring strange new worlds instead of not exploring strange new worlds for a change and there are Klingon Warbirds everywhere, obviously some ambush. No regard for light speed, the only thing they seem interested in is decloaking and firing particle beams. I stopped at the neutral zone only to get swamped on all sides as they disabled my transporters with no where for me to go. This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently civilisations on the whole dislike us. There really is no need for it in my eight eyes, if you want to get that competitive hit Vulcan and get out of hyperspace. This is in the Mutara Nebula by the way.


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## HLaB (7 Oct 2016)

They as in human beings, stop sub dividing folk into groups we are all human beings ;-)


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## r04DiE (7 Oct 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> @dusty605 @r04DiE has got confused. It was @Brand X he insulted. (Or his post insulting you has been deleted.) But @Brand X was just (successfully) trolling.


Oops! Thanks @Ajax Bay  At least somebody is taking notice! Yes, @Brand X, I aplologise.


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## jefmcg (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> There really is no need for it in my eyes, if you want to get that competitive *hit the track* and get off the road. This is in Oxford by the way.


Um, where exactly?


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## bikeman66 (7 Oct 2016)

Marmion said:


> So.
> 
> Stop using it to start sentences.


I "so" hate it when people do that!!


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## TheDoctor (7 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> So I'm on my motorbike this evening riding to work, no regard for traffic, the only thing they seem interested in is racing each other.
> Tl; dr.
> This kind of behaviour gives the rest of us a bad name and consequently drivers on the whole dislike us..



That's a bit harsh. We don't all dislike all motorcyclists by any means.
You're coming across as a bit of a plank though. You might want to watch that.


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## jefmcg (7 Oct 2016)

bikeman66 said:


> I "so" hate it when people do that!!


So what?


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## Dogtrousers (7 Oct 2016)

bikeman66 said:


> I "so" hate it when people do that!!


Worst. Habit. Ever.


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## slowmotion (8 Oct 2016)

When I get on my bike, I don't feel a sense of hatred towards pedestrians, lorry drivers, motorcyclists, car drivers, horse riders or dog owners.

Can you help me?


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## Brandane (8 Oct 2016)

slowmotion said:


> Can you help me?


Can I suggest that you spend more time reading posts on CycleChat? Give it a day or two and the red mist will descend every time you venture out on your bike. Better still, get one of those cameras on your handlebars and go looking for the ba$$tards, just to make sure they ruin your day .


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## dusty605 (8 Oct 2016)

Forgive my intrusion, I bow down to your superior knowledge, it wasn't bad riding after all. Learn something new every day.


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## Brandane (8 Oct 2016)

dusty605 said:


> Forgive my intrusion, I bow down to your superior knowledge, it wasn't bad riding after all. Learn something new every day.


FWIW, I am in partial agreement with you. There are nobbers on bikes, just like there are in cars, lorries, buses, tractors, motorbikes (but only very few of them on motorbikes  as we know). We could all do a lot more to co-exist in perfect harmony on the public roads, but from some other recent threads on here there appears to be a reluctance on the part of _some_ cyclists to accept that there is a degree of personal responsibility placed on them when they venture onto the road. It's creating a very noticeable "us and them" attitude on the roads which isn't a good thing for either side.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Oct 2016)

Brandane said:


> FWIW, I am in partial agreement with you. There are nobbers on bikes, just like there are in cars, lorries, buses, tractors, motorbikes (but only very few of them on motorbikes  as we know). We could all do a lot more to co-exist in perfect harmony on the public roads, but from some other recent threads on here there appears to be a reluctance on the part of _some_ cyclists to accept that there is a degree of personal responsibility placed on them when they venture onto the road. It's creating a very noticeable "us and them" attitude on the roads which isn't a good thing for either side.


Who are the us and who are the them? I am not us. You are not them. They are not we.

All just individuals trying to rub along in a shared space. Some do it more gracefully than others but generalising and placing people in "out" groups is rather silly.


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