# Alternative Juice



## Kevin Alexander (26 Nov 2013)

Hi Guys

I have been hooked with the guy on youtube "durianrider" and picking up tips as I go along, is there an alternative to the Guava drink he is drinking in the UK?

Also any advice on the high carb, low fat diet for a diabetic?

Will be speaking to my consultant at next appt but wondered if any one could advise.


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## Roadrider48 (27 Nov 2013)

Durianrider IMHO is so far up his own rectum it's sad!


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## Doyleyburger (27 Nov 2013)

Is that the Australian guy?

Proper nob If that's him


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## srw (27 Nov 2013)

I've never heard of DurianRider but two observations spring to mind. If he's called Durian Rider why isn't he advocating drinking Durian juice? And all fruit juice is pretty much the same - it's water, various kinds of sugar including quite a large dollop of fructose, and small amounts of other stuff. From a nutritional perspective just about any juice would be the same.

For what it's worth I sometimes drink juice mixed 50-50 with water when I'm out on the bike.


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Nov 2013)

Roadrider48 said:


> Durianrider IMHO is so far up his own rectum it's sad!



Doubt he can stay up there for long if he is still eating 30 bananas a day


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Nov 2013)

Kevin Alexander said:


> Hi Guys
> I have been hooked with the guy on youtube "durianrider" and picking up tips as I go along, is there an alternative to the Guava drink he is drinking in the UK?
> Also any advice on the high carb, low fat diet for a diabetic?
> Will be speaking to my consultant at next appt but wondered if any one could advise.



Duran Rider has no qualification elating to health or nutrition and as stated he shares only his own view and little of what he states can be supported by scientific evidence. He even believes eating vast quantities of banana's a day is a positive thing for a balanced diet and health.
A low fat diet is not always a positive thing, your body requires fat to function effectively. You just need to understand the difference between good fats and bad fats.

Any diet is simply not sustainable long term and stopping the activity will ensure you return to the condition you were before if habits have not changed.. You need to make lifestyle choices and eat in a healthy and sustainable manner.


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## Rob3rt (27 Nov 2013)

If you must drink some form of juice in an attempt to improve your performance, there is only one real option, Beetroot Juice! Look up the scientific papers, there are plenty about and IME it is the real deal and through various experiments I conclude that I put out more power, for a lower heart rate and go faster after consuming a glass of Beetroot juice ~2.5 hours before training/racing.


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## Dusty Bin (27 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> If you must drink some form of juice in an attempt to improve your performance, there is only one real option, Beetroot Juice! Look up the scientific papers, there are plenty about and IME it is the real deal and through various experiments I conclude that I put out more power, for a lower heart rate and go faster after consuming a glass of Beetroot juice ~2.5 hours before training/racing.



Much respect old chap - if you can drink that stuff, then you are a better man than I am... 

I tried a glass once, the taste gave me nightmares. I don't care how fast it makes me - never again.


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

I too dont buy into a lot of what he is saying, High Carbs isnt good for a Diabetic (Which I am) but the juice he drinks looks nice ( thought it might have been the same as sunny delight)

I do believe in some of what he says, vegan diet being better for you and the advice to stay away from oil and butter but then again people should know this already.

I take what he says with a pinch of salt.


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## Dusty Bin (27 Nov 2013)

Kevin Alexander said:


> I take what he says with a pinch of salt.



Low sodium salt, presumably.....


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## Rob3rt (27 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Much respect old chap - if you can drink that stuff, then you are a better man than I am...
> 
> I tried a glass once, the taste gave me nightmares. I don't care how fast it makes me - never again.



I like the taste, however I neck it anyway just because of the extreme colour which makes your lips and mouth bright red if you sip it! Apparently you should avoid chewing gum or brushing your teeth immediately afterwards too.



Kevin Alexander said:


> I too dont buy into a lot of what he is saying, High Carbs isnt good for a Diabetic (Which I am) but the juice he drinks looks nice ( thought it might have been the same as sunny delight)
> 
> *I do believe in some of what he says, vegan diet being better for you *and the advice to stay away from oil and butter but then again people should know this already.
> 
> I take what he says with a pinch of salt.



???


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> I like the taste, however I neck it anyway just because of the extreme colour which makes your lips and mouth bright red if you sip it! Apparently you should avoid chewing gum or brushing your teeth immediately afterwards too.
> 
> 
> 
> ???



Not sure what the ??? are for, I generally believe having a vegan diet is better than shoving fatty foods down your throat.


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## Rob3rt (27 Nov 2013)

Fat is not bad!


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## michaelcycle (27 Nov 2013)

Guava (juice I presume?) is simply a concentrated form of sugar (mainly fructose) which your body will metabolise just like any other type of sugar. Given you are not eating the whole fruit it will spike your blood sugar level just the same as a maltodextrin supplement for example given it has lost most of its bulk and fibre which will slow down rates of digestion. Probably not a good fit for you if you are diabetic really other than in small quantities. Personally, I think fruit squash mixed with water, a little sugar and some salt will be more beneficial.

As for a vegan diet - it is probably going to be healthier than your average person's diet which is high in calories and low in other nutrients, particularly protein.

Is it healthier or better than a well balanced omnivorous diet including reasonable amount of dietary fat? Not likely in my view no matter what the China Study may allude to...


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Fat is not bad!



In proportion its not, but over doing it is. I am not overweight, I am 5"9 and weigh 11st 13 but still want to eat better than I am just now.


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

michaelcycle said:


> Guava (juice I presume?) is simply a concentrated form of sugar (mainly fructose) which your body will metabolise just like any other type of sugar. Given you are not eating the whole fruit it will spike your blood sugar level just the same as a maltodextrin supplement for example given it has lost most of its bulk and fibre which will slow down rates of digestion. Probably not a good fit for you if you are diabetic really other than in small quantities. Personally, I think fruit squash mixed with water, a little sugar and some salt will be more beneficial.
> 
> *I have heard and read that as well, I have to watch the sugar/glucose content as my adrenaline tends to push my sugar level up*
> 
> ...



*Agreed - Couldnt do a complete vegan diet, I like Fish far too much and other foods taken from animals.*


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

Just buy a juicer, throw what you like in the top, press the button, and vola, you have a drink !


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

fossyant said:


> Just buy a juicer, throw what you like in the top, press the button, and vola, you have a drink !



Got the smoothie machine out.

It was more of an alternative that I could buy whilst I was out and maybe needing a wee sugar bump, but as said fruit juice should do the trick,


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

Most of the stuff you buy is packed with sugar, just make it yourself.


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

[QUOTE 2791467, member: 259"]Does it work with kebabs?[/quote]

I guess so !


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

PS Kevin, you by now have guessed that people on here (including me) think this 'durian rider' is a nut case. We even had a chap come on the forum blatently going on about the banana diet, and wouldn't listed to the facts that a balanced diet is best.

Our advice is to ignore any silly fad diets, eat properly, and ride your bike ! Simple


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

fossyant said:


> PS Kevin, you by now have guessed that people on here (including me) think this 'durian rider' is a nut case. We even had a chap come on the forum blatently going on about the banana diet, and wouldn't listed to the facts that a balanced diet is best.
> 
> Our advice is to ignore any silly fad diets, eat properly, and ride your bike ! Simple



To an extend I agree, a lot of what he says I dont believe or dont understand but I think his message of eating right is correct. I could never eat 30 bananas a day and god knows how he affords it but the idea of having a smoothie as meal is something that I would benefit from as I rarely eat breakfast and sometimes dont eat lunch and just snack which isnt good.

Personally I will try and eat more fruit and veg, fish, less cakes and chocolate and have a smoothie for breakfast.

No point in cycling and eating rubbish and wondering why I have a little belly haha

Like his videos though.


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## fossyant (27 Nov 2013)

A home made smoothie is a good idea if you are not eating breakfast. I generally take fruit to woek and eat it there. Usually tea and toast to start at home, then the fruit once in the office.


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## Flying Dodo (27 Nov 2013)

Kevin Alexander said:


> Hi Guys
> Also any advice on the high carb, low fat diet for a diabetic?



Avoid carbs - as generally that means sugar! There is some evidence that a low carb diet can help diabetics - here's one study, but it may be easier just to avoid pigging out on junk food and eating sensible portions.


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## Ghost Donkey (27 Nov 2013)

Hi Kevin, I like durianrider in that he adds to the whole food debate. Not sure about some of his coments (steroids are rife in cross fit?) And some of his anecdotal claims take away from the whole food message. Whole fresh food is the way forward. I also enjoy bananas and dates as post training food but not in the quantities durianrider does as well as dried fruit instead of/as well as energy dring when out riding. A variety of salad veg is king with a bit of olive oil or high quality egg away from training. A lot of the micronutrients in veg are fat soluable although you don't need a lot of fat for the benefits.

Diabetes is an interesting subject with a lot of conflicting information regarding fat, sugar etc which is a bit specialist for me. Whole food is key in general. Dr Richard Bernstein is a good read as a type1 diabetes suffering doctor. The food pyramid is a bad read. My mum is T2 (obese and > 50% body fat) and went to the gym eating biscuits during her very light workout as a misinterpretation of the advice from her diabetes nurse to stop her going hypo. I convinced her switch to small portions of fruit and mainly water. She still prefers the sofa, tv and junk food whoch is how she got that way in the first place. My dad, myself and my siblings are all lean and sporty but she doesn't listen to us on the benefits of healthy eating and exercise!

There are high carb, low fat and low carb offerings for diabetics to further confuse things. For my ten pence worth (and I'd be ripping you off) eat fresh food, mainly vegetables with fruit and starch around exercise, particluarly after. Vegans do well, animal eaters also do well when cutting out the crap.

Diabetes info is a minefiled at best! I'll fully admit knowing naff all factually. For a cyclist look up what team type 1 pro cycling team did for their training and racing. I expect their collective knowledge outweighs most people's understanding of sport and diabetes.


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

Flying Dodo said:


> Avoid carbs - as generally that means sugar! There is some evidence that a low carb diet can help diabetics - here's one study, but it may be easier just to avoid pigging out on junk food and eating sensible portions.



Thanks, will check out the study. I think for me personally it all about a balanced intake and to cut back on the junk (Stupid time for this as its xmas just round the corner)


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## Kevin Alexander (27 Nov 2013)

Ghost Donkey said:


> Hi Kevin, I like durianrider in that he adds to the whole food debate. Not sure about some of his coments (steroids are rife in cross fit?) And some of his anecdotal claims take away from the whole food message. Whole fresh food is the way forward. I also enjoy bananas and dates as post training food but not in the quantities durianrider does as well as dried fruit instead of/as well as energy dring when out riding. A variety of salad veg is king with a bit of olive oil or high quality egg away from training. A lot of the micronutrients in veg are fat soluable although you don't need a lot of fat for the benefits.
> 
> Diabetes is an interesting subject with a lot of conflicting information regarding fat, sugar etc which is a bit specialist for me. Whole food is key in general. Dr Richard Bernstein is a good read as a type1 diabetes suffering doctor. The food pyramid is a bad read. My mum is T2 (obese and > 50% body fat) and went to the gym eating biscuits during her very light workout as a misinterpretation of the advice from her diabetes nurse to stop her going hypo. I convinced her switch to small portions of fruit and mainly water. She still prefers the sofa, tv and junk food whoch is how she got that way in the first place. My dad, myself and my siblings are all lean and sporty but she doesn't listen to us on the benefits of healthy eating and exercise!
> 
> ...



Thanks very much. I am aiming to start a "diet" if you can call it that of 2 smoothies a day, soup, veg, pasta, oily fish, beans and rice. Obviously I am not that strict that I wont go near meat or dairy but I think that cutting down will help the overall goal.

Dont agree with a lot of what DR says but I think what he is aiming to get across is a healthy lifestyle (which in my opinion can include dairy products and meat)


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## Ghost Donkey (27 Nov 2013)

+1 to what Flying Dodo said re carbs. Smoothies are better than fruit juice as they contain the fibre of the fruit which slows digestion but if you're going to bang a load of fruit into one in one go it'll hit your blood sugar levels. I love fruit but if I have for lunch and haven't just exercise I have a bit of fruit and some nuts and seeds to balance it all out. I eat fruit for breakfast when I cycle to work some days and also after training

The thing with internet recommendations is that diabetes is a very individual condition. No two T1 or T2 people the same. If you're T2 are you just very insulin resistant of are the beta cells in your pancreas depleted and by how much? When I hear durianrider say that meat spikes insulin levels in blood I would be very wary of taking his blanket advice relating to such an individual condition. I'd obviously be wary of my advice as well. I've read a lot about the condition and have read a lot of books and articles on health, nutrition, human biology etc but in reality I actually know naff all.

Durianrider mentions a book several times written by doctor who apparently has treated diabetes patients with a high carb whole food vegan diet. That book would certainly be worth a read if you can get it. I'd definitely read Dr Bernstein's book as well. The devil is always in the detail with these things. He has lectures the internet which are free on sites such as youtube, vimeo etc. A doctor or specialist who can treat you as an individual patient is the only sort of person you should be taking direct advice from based on your individual health.


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## Ghost Donkey (27 Nov 2013)

Funnily enough just seen this via twitter.http://www.dietdoctor.com/diabetes
I'll stop now !


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## Pat "5mph" (27 Nov 2013)

[QUOTE 2791018, member: 259"]You can get guava juice fairly reasonably from Chinese and Thai supermarkets. It's nice with vodka.[/quote]
Not many of them here.
Go to Asian grocery shops @Kevin Alexander should find guava juice there.


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## vickster (27 Nov 2013)

Get advice from your diabetogist. Proper diabetes control is important if you value your eyes, kidneys and feet etc


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## Mr Haematocrit (28 Nov 2013)

Kevin Alexander said:


> In proportion its not, but over doing it is. I am not overweight, I am 5"9 and weigh 11st 13 but still want to eat better than I am just now.



It is not as simple as stating overdoing fats is bad for you, without quantifying what fats, we need to get out of the habit of thinking about fats negatively.

There are numerous types of fat. Your body even makes its own fat from taking in excess calories. Fat is essential to your health because it supports a number of your body's functions. Some vitamins, for instance, must have fat to dissolve and nourish your body. 
Monounsaturated fat for example improves blood cholesterol levels, which can decrease your risk of heart disease and benefits insulin levels and blood sugar control, which can be especially helpful if you have type 2 diabetes. Omega3 is also a fat and is highly recommended as part of a healthy diet.
There are two main types of potentially harmful dietary fat which are Saturated fat and Trans fat it is these which are bad for you.

Most fats that have a high percentage of saturated fat or trans fat are solid at room temperature while monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are liquid at room temperature.


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## VamP (28 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> Much respect old chap - if you can drink that stuff, then you are a better man than I am...
> 
> I tried a glass once, the taste gave me nightmares. I don't care how fast it makes me - never again.


 
MTFU 

I wouldn't care if it tasted like ostrich poo, if it made me go faster I'd drink it. BJ is quite nice, if you're struggling, cut it half and half with apple juice.


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## Dusty Bin (28 Nov 2013)

VamP said:


> MTFU
> 
> I wouldn't care if it tasted like ostrich poo, if it made me go faster I'd drink it. BJ is quite nice, if you're struggling, cut it half and half with apple juice.



No seriously 

I hate the taste so much, that even if drinking a glass might mean the difference between 1st or 2nd place in the TdF - I still wouldn't do it...


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## VamP (28 Nov 2013)

[QUOTE 2791467, member: 259"]Does it work with kebabs?[/quote]

Only if you also add vodka.


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## VamP (28 Nov 2013)

Dusty Bin said:


> No seriously
> 
> I hate the taste so much, that even if drinking a glass might mean the difference between 1st or 2nd place in the TdF - I still wouldn't do it...


 
That's one serious aversion


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## squeezelouise400 (10 Jan 2014)

I too am diabetic, type 1 and pumping Apidra, I'm new to cycling but I have found the best juice to drink is full sugar Ribena and to my surprise my blood sugars stay stable during and after exercise and this works a treat!


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## squeezelouise400 (10 Jan 2014)

[QUOTE 2791467, member: 259"]Does it work with kebabs?[/quote]
Hahahah


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## squeezelouise400 (10 Jan 2014)

Kevin Alexander said:


> I too dont buy into a lot of what he is saying, High Carbs isnt good for a Diabetic (Which I am) but the juice he drinks looks nice ( thought it might have been the same as sunny delight)
> 
> I do believe in some of what he says, vegan diet being better for you and the advice to stay away from oil and butter but then again people should know this already.
> 
> I take what he says with a pinch of salt.



I'm also diabetic and pumping Apidra, and I have found that full sugar Ribena keeps my blood sugars stable when training (I'm a noobie)


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## Kevin Alexander (11 Jan 2014)

squeezelouise400 said:


> I'm also diabetic and pumping Apidra, and I have found that full sugar Ribena keeps my blood sugars stable when training (I'm a noobie)



I have been drinking Copella and Ribena, loads of sugar but full of energy


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