# The Shiv has arrived



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

I took her out for a quick spin ( 2 miles ) and she feels sweet to ride although I need to shift a few things around . You can really feel like the bike wants to just go .
Oddly after a week or so of the shop telling me they would fit the bike to me and they didn't want to let it out the shop without getting it just right for me , I turned up with shorts , pedals and shoes as instructed and was told heres your bike mate , sign here and have fun 
It suits me as my LBS has already said they will tweak it for me if I want .
Anyway , I now have her set up in the turbo trainer for me to have a play with positions . Any tips as to what to aim for ?
Oh , and yes , I do have some nice wheels for her


----------



## screenman (5 Jan 2015)

Have you had a look on the time trial forum http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ there are a lot of top guys on there, most happy to give advice.


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

screenman said:


> Have you had a look on the time trial forum http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ there are a lot of top guys on there, most happy to give advice.


I would rather ask here as these guys and gals already know I'm a twat . If I go over there i'll have to build up the whole reputation of being a twat again


----------



## screenman (5 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> I would rather ask here as these guys and gals already know I'm a twat . If I go over there i'll have to build up the whole reputation of being a twat again



Better to sound stupid for a minute than to remain ignorant for the rest of your life. It is a good forum, have a look.


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

screenman said:


> Better to sound stupid for a minute



I'll have you know it's taken me years to perfect it !


----------



## totallyfixed (5 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> I would rather ask here as these guys and gals already know I'm a twat . If I go over there i'll have to build up the whole reputation of being a twat again


One or two of us are regulars on the TTF, so feel free to make a pillock out of yourself. Happy to help out though, I have done a lot of TT bike tweaking for others over the years. PM me any pictures of you on the bike [side view and as square on as you can].


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> One or two of us are regulars on the TTF, so feel free to make a pillock out of yourself. Happy to help out though, I have done a lot of TT bike tweaking for others over the years. PM me any pictures of you on the bike [side view and as square on as you can].


That's very kind of you . I'll try and get some sorted .


----------



## Pikey (5 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> I would rather ask here as these guys and gals already know I'm a twat . If I go over there i'll have to build up the whole reputation of being a twat again



I just joined the TTF, in anticipation of my new bike, it's a pretty decent forum and they seem quite welcoming.

Nice bike btw


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

Hmmmm ive just tried to drop the bars to at least get them somewhere near my road bikes and the spacers don't seem to fit on the top . It looks like there is some kind of split spacer that takes up the slack ? I knew I shouldn't have touched it


----------



## totallyfixed (5 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Hmmmm ive just tried to drop the bars to at least get them somewhere near my road bikes and the spacers don't seem to fit on the top . It looks like there is some kind of split spacer that takes up the slack ? I knew I shouldn't have touched it


You will find that most tt'ers do not have their tri-bars set as low as the bars on their road bikes. In a nutshell it is a trade off between aero and power, it takes a long time to get the balance right for an individual, simply because everyones morphology is different. This is where a power metre can be very useful.


----------



## Cuchilo (5 Jan 2015)

totallyfixed said:


> You will find that most tt'ers do not have their tri-bars set as low as the bars on their road bikes. In a nutshell it is a trade off between aero and power, it takes a long time to get the balance right for an individual, simply because everyones morphology is different. This is where a power metre can be very useful.


I understand that and was just having a play with things . Right now I have every spacer on everything and it feels like i'm on my mums bike 
Off to bed now , this TT stuff is hard work isn't it


----------



## Roadrider48 (6 Jan 2015)

Nice bike Cuchilo. Mine took about a month to get comfy/ish.
I still feel the aero bars are touch too low.(on mine that is)


----------



## jowwy (6 Jan 2015)

My bars have all the spacers underneath and the stem flipped, as thats how it feels comfortable. Concentrate on getting narrow and not low, with a small comprimise over aero to power...........works for me and im 17 st lump that has a 26min pb


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

Narrow not low  This is going to be lots of fun !


----------



## Joshua Plumtree (6 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo said:


> Narrow not low  This is going to be lots of fun !




Narrow, not necessarily low, but definitely flat!


----------



## Joshua Plumtree (6 Jan 2015)

jowwy said:


> My bars have all the spacers underneath and the stem flipped, as thats how it feels comfortable. Concentrate on getting narrow and not low, with a small comprimise over aero to power...........works for me and im 17 st lump that has a 26min pb



I'd be more impressed if you were a 26st lump with a 17min personal best!


----------



## jowwy (6 Jan 2015)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> I'd be more impressed if you were a 26st lump with a 17min personal best!


After the xmas eating feast, i might be that big


----------



## AndyRM (6 Jan 2015)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Narrow, not necessarily low, but definitely flat!
> 
> View attachment 76143



WTF has happened to that poor woman behind him? Is she about to explode? Has someone given her a jab up the arse with a pointy stick? 

I hope she has made a full recovery, because whatever she has suffered looks like it was incredibly painful.


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

AndyRM said:


> WTF has happened to that poor woman behind him? Is she about to explode? Has someone given her a jab up the arse with a pointy stick?
> 
> I hope she has made a full recovery, because whatever she has suffered looks like it was incredibly painful.




I think the woman in the brown top has removed the offending item ...... and seems rather proud of it I must add


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

Ive just got back from my LBS who set the bike up on a turbo for me and used lasers , pointy bendy sticks and angle finders to set the positioning up for me . They have left the bars as they are , just moved the pads and reach about to suit me .
Also fitted my nice carbon wheels and brake pads 
So now I have no excuse , except its raining now


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Jan 2015)

How did they determine how aero your position was at each stage?


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

Rob3rt said:


> How did they determine how aero your position was at each stage?


At this point they have only set the bike up so I am in the right position for riding it . Arms and legs at the right angles and points .
They said the bars could probably go down some but to have a ride as it is and then go back . I'm guessing they want my feed back on it ? Remember I am no spring chicken so you cant just bend me into position and tell me to ride like it


----------



## totallyfixed (6 Jan 2015)

I know plenty of testers out there who are veterans and are still tweaking their position.


----------



## Joshua Plumtree (6 Jan 2015)

Cuchilo asked for some advice on the TTF. 

The first reply went something along these lines; exaggerate everything by at least 25pc, use a training model which will later be discredited, learn at least 50 new acronyms per week, and PLF!


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

I guess its TT humour ? It went straight over my head .
Anyhow , took the bike down to Hillingdon circuit today between the rain and took it for a ten mile spin . Its a lovely bike to ride and I shaved 2 minutes off my normal time . Still a crap time but that's what practice is for .
I felt like the saddle could go up just a little bit and my arms could come in closer together on the pads . Are there any guides online or books to learn what position I am aiming for ?


----------



## Rob3rt (6 Jan 2015)

It was humour yes.

Regarding your position, you are (or should be) aiming for the fastest position, simple as that.

However, this position will be extremely specific to you, as such lasers, angle measurements and bendy sticks won't tell you which position is going to be fastest, nor will a book or website, in fact I have found that most books/websites perpetuate the same old bullshit regarding certain saddle heights, body angles and contact points being 'right' and obsessing about flat backs etc, what you need to do is embark on a journey of methodical trial and error. This is what I was alluding to/hoping you might catch onto when I asked the question about how the bike fitter was determining how aero you were as they made adjustments i.e. they were thrusting a knife into the dark and you may well have come out of there less aero and slower than you went in, even if you look more aero. The reality is, you can't see aero, there are a few riders in the time trial scene with positions you would look at and think "what were they thinking", yet they have extremely low drag values.

Why don't you just ride the bike a bit more and see how you get on. You won't get your position right any time soon, accept it is going to be long term thing and work it out as you go. If you need pointers from experienced time triallists you will need to post pictures (or preferably video recorded with your riding at race pace) from the front (dead on) and the side (dead on).


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Jan 2015)

Riding the bike and working things out as I go is my plan . I was always going to tweak things myself once the bike had been put into a starting position for me to work from . The problem was , the bike was never put into a start position for me . It was just built and handed over so I took it to my LBS so they could get me into some sort of educated position rather than me taking a wild guess at it .
I understand that there will be a lot of BS out there as there is with all subjects . But by not bothering to read anything about the subject and trying to work it out for myself would be a very slow way to learn . Surely you need to read the BS to work out what is BS and what isn't .


----------



## ayceejay (6 Jan 2015)

Your position on this bike is sure to be unique, consequently a little tweak here and there from your regular position is to be expected. Although I agree that your position should be guided by whatever is fastest you also want to live to fight another day.


----------



## jowwy (6 Jan 2015)

Ive actually lowered my saddle this year compared to last year. As it feels more powerful and comfortable, but its only on the turbo at the moment and no real road testing as yet


----------



## Cuchilo (7 Jan 2015)

I spent most of last night looking at hundreds of pictures a photographer had taken of some time trials and one thing that I noticed is that nearly everyone has an aero helmet . I guess my pointy helmet moment may come sooner rather than later 
Anyhow , the positions of some people as mentioned was very interesting as they seemed to be doing things totally different to the others .
I also took detailed measurements of the bike as it is before I start to tweak things so if I feel I have messed things up I have notes of a default position to go back too .
Ive moved the saddle up 12mm as I felt it needed to go up when I was riding . Its still about 5mm lower than on my other bikes but im not sure if comparing that is relevant ?


----------



## Rob3rt (7 Jan 2015)

You need to be identifying the fast riders, looking through galleries blind is bound to show all sorts of positions, good, bad and anything in between, having no clue who is fast and who isn't, you have no idea which positions are likely to be good and which are likely to be bad.

As for your saddle height, you can not compare saddle height to your road bike because A) The seat tube is steeper, so you are sat further over the bottom bracket, B) As you roll your pelvis forward to get aero, your hips are lifted up. Also your saddle height is an aerodynamic consideration, not just a comfort consideration.


----------



## Cuchilo (7 Jan 2015)

Ive been doing a bit of playing today in between work and have set the bike up on the turbo in the spare bedroom . Ive also invested in a huge mirror as this was advised by one of you guys last time I was asking about positioning . The mirror is a massive eye opener into not only my position but just how good looking I am  I'm surprised I'm still single to be honest 
Ive also been looking on youtube ( because no one has said not to look at that yet ) about positions and why / how they work . All very interesting stuff and its nice to have a turbo to test things out before taking the bike out for a ride .


----------



## ayceejay (7 Jan 2015)

_I'm surprised I'm still single to be honest._
A bike called a Shiv and a huge mirror in the bedroom might have something to do with it. I wish I;d thought of that.


----------



## Cuchilo (7 Jan 2015)

ayceejay said:


> _I'm surprised I'm still single to be honest._
> A bike called a Shiv and a huge mirror in the bedroom might have something to do with it. I wish I;d thought of that.


Don't forget to add me in lycra


----------



## Cuchilo (10 Jan 2015)

Been watching the good ones on you tube for tips . I don't look like him !

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0JGt8m0WHE


----------

