# mudguard options..



## DLB (30 Aug 2007)

I've just taken the silver full mudguards (which came with the bike) off my hybrid trek 7.1 (which is black) and the bike looks a thousand times better.

When the rain appears next, what alternatives do i have other than putting the silver guards back on? What mudguards do you guys and gals use? Would black full guards look better than the silver ones?

I realise that come the autumn (if not before) mudguards are going to be essential for me to avoid a soaking.

Oh, and if it makes a differnence, i have a rack fitted.


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## Maz (30 Aug 2007)

Black 'guards deffo look better...I have a black specialized sirrus onto which I had slim, close-fitting black SKS 'guards fitted. It looks good!


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## Oldlegs (30 Aug 2007)

Black to me look a LOT better on a black frame with black tires. . They sort of blend in. I use raceblades on my road bike but would prefer full guards. Style is nice but in winter I prefer a dry arse and legs


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## Brock (30 Aug 2007)

Just put the silver ones back on and stop being such a prissy fanny.


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## DLB (30 Aug 2007)

Brock said:


> Just put the silver ones back on and stop being such a prissy fanny.




yes but they make the bike look crap. I've had the bike for nearly a year but never seen it without them as it came with them already fitted.

Perhaps if i was the wrong side of 40 i'd be happy to use them while wearing some farrar trousers and a nice cardigan. And sandals with socks.


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## HJ (30 Aug 2007)

Just put black ones on...


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## DLB (30 Aug 2007)

i think i'll just do that, Jock


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## Brock (31 Aug 2007)

DLB said:


> yes but they make the bike look crap. I've had the bike for nearly a year but never seen it without them as it came with them already fitted.
> 
> Perhaps if i was the wrong side of 40 i'd be happy to use them while wearing some farrar trousers and a nice cardigan. And sandals with socks.



It's a hybrid with a rack, the style police will hang you regardless of your sandals or the guard colour.


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## Noodley (31 Aug 2007)

Brock said:


> It's a hybrid with a rack, the style police will hang you regardless of your sandals or the guard colour.



exactly. no point trying when you are a disaster anyway.


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## Keith Oates (31 Aug 2007)

You could always tell people that the silver ones are safer as they reflect car headlights in the winter evenings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DLB (31 Aug 2007)

> I've just spent 2 hours putting black SKS guards on my Crossroads. I was a bit worried about them turning it into a grandad bike. but after 2 hours of messing about (don't ever let yourself drop a tiny nut onto a patterned carpet) I've got them on and they do look great. They're almost metallic, and reflect the colour of the frame. And they're slick, but sturdy.
> 
> Far better than those pesky Halfords guards I took of the wife's bike. They was rubbish.



are they these Paul...?


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## skwerl (31 Aug 2007)

> ...I've got them on and they do look great. quote]
> 
> No. Sorry but no matter what mudguards they are they're never going to look "great". It's always going to be a case of how bearable they are. The only great mudguard is a mudguard that's not fitted to a bike.


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## DLB (31 Aug 2007)

skwerl said:


> Sorry but no matter what mudguards they are they're never going to look "great". It's always going to be a case of how bearable they are. The only great mudguard is a mudguard that's not fitted to a bike.



i had a feeling that somebody would write that


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## Brock (31 Aug 2007)

DLB said:


> i had a feeling that somebody would write that



It was almost inevitable, but you know they're the people that jump on the turbo trainer in the living room the moment there's a wisp of cloud in the sky.


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## snorri (31 Aug 2007)

Sound advice all along from Brock.


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## got-to-get-fit (1 Sep 2007)

> I've just spent 2 hours putting black SKS guards on my Crossroads. I was a bit worried about them turning it into a grandad bike. but after 2 hours of messing about (don't ever let yourself drop a tiny nut onto a patterned carpet) I've got them on and they do look great. They're almost metallic, and reflect the colour of the frame. And they're slick, but sturdy.
> 
> Far better than those pesky Halfords guards I took of the wife's bike. They was rubbish.



Im guessing you are not a married man User ....i am assuming if you have dropped a nut onto a patterned carpet, then you are putting your mudguards on in the house .........i can just imagine my wifes face if i did this, in fact i can just imagine it staring across a crowded divorce court.


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## twowheelsgood (3 Sep 2007)

I find it isn't the colour but the width that loses style-points. If you don't have mega-beefy tyres, the narrow P35s look much better in either colour, especially when fitted neatly and not too far from the tyre. I prefer the silver myself.

It shouldn't take more than 20 mins to fit SKSs. The secret is simply screw the lock nut hand tight to the very end of each stay temporarily and adjust afterwards.


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## DLB (3 Sep 2007)

twowheelsgood said:


> I find it isn't the colour but the width that loses style-points. If you don't have mega-beefy tyres, the narrow P35s look much better in either colour, especially when fitted neatly and not too far from the tyre. I prefer the silver myself.
> 
> It shouldn't take more than 20 mins to fit SKSs. The secret is simply screw the lock nut hand tight to the very end of each stay temporarily and adjust afterwards.



no use for me - my wheels are 700x38


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## Elmer Fudd (3 Sep 2007)

DLB said:


> no use for me - my wheels are 700x38


SKS guards do come in different widths, see here


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## DLB (3 Sep 2007)

they look pretty good, as far as mudguards can.

Elmer - i was refering to the p35s which are only for road bikes.


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## Elmer Fudd (3 Sep 2007)

DLB said:


> they look pretty good, as far as mudguards can.
> 
> Elmer - i was refering to the p35s which are only for road bikes.



Sorry m8, typed reply quickly as a loo break was definately on the cards (or nearly the floor !


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## DLB (3 Sep 2007)

Elmer Fudd said:


> Sorry m8, typed reply quickly as a loo break was definately on the cards (or nearly the floor !



no worries.


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## bonj2 (3 Sep 2007)

Don't all clammer at once with sheer wonderment at how amazing this idea is or get overly flustered in wondering why no-one thought of it before, but with respect to the question of what mudguards to have, has anyone considered ... _no_ mudguards? Let's face it - you don't really _need_ them, do you?
People only have them for a fashion statement thinking they're saying 'look at me i'm hard, I cycle in the rain!', but don't realise that what you're effectively saying is 'look at me, I cycle _slowly_ in the rain'. Because I've cycled in wet weather and have never once got rain up my back - I can only assume it's because I go faster than your average pootler.


> I think they look as good as mudguards can-



Is that ^^^ your bike??!! Interesting choice of colour, brown. Don't see many brown bikes around. I would have to agree that they do look 'as good as mudguards can'. If I was to change anything, I'd have the front one going further round the front of the front wheel, e.g. to the 10 o'clock position or even 9 o'clock, rather than stopping at 12. Stopping at the top _kind_ of reminds me of a receeding hairline, in the same way that a stem with only two bolts on the handlebar face clamp reminds me of a cyclops.

But just a few questions if I may, out of curiosity:
what's that contraption attached to the seat tube? (a weapon to use against idiot drivers?)
what's the red thing under the saddle bag? (the firing device?)
And have you ever considered, wait for it - shock horror: _clipless pedals_? If not, I've got a pair of plastic ones you can have for free if you want, it'll save you some weight. No point having metal flatties on a road bike.
Also have you considered taking the spoke reflectors off (although to be fair clear ones aren't _quite_ as much of a travesty as orange ones).
But nice bike on the whole by the way.


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## bonj2 (3 Sep 2007)

edit: oh and User I see you've also got an adjustable stem but have got it straight forward. I've also actually got a 105mm one which would put your bars in pretty much exactly the same position but without the adjustment knuckle you can have for free if you want.


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## bonj2 (3 Sep 2007)

> It's a bracket for fitting a Hamax child seat into.




Hmmm... well if those black bits on the upper dropouts are also attachments for it, then I have to say it at least looks a bit more sturdy than hubgearfreak's one, which _only_ attaches onto the seatpost...


> Thanks for the offer. But I just wouldn't trust it.



Why not?! It's a fine stem


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

> No. It only attaches to the seatpost. It's completely safe, and *the method of attachment means that the seat has its own suspension.*


 
Yes, the bendiness of the PLASTIC...
I don't want to get into a long argument about whether or not they've been theoretically proven to be save, but like I said to hubgearfreak, rather you than me.



> those black things on the seat stays are brackets for lights. Those red shiny things that look at you at night.


they are at least 350mm off the ground I hope?!



> I just don't, OK? And no facts nor reasoned logic, no physics nor personal experience of others will ever convince me otherwise. Got it?


Well, ok. Just as long as you realise the adjuster knuckle is a point of weakness. But if you're not going that fast or the roads are quite good round there then you'll probably be ok.


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

> No, not plastic.



Metal, then. But I still wouldn't trust it. The fact that the metal is constantly bending as you say to provide suspension means that the metal is always getting slightly more and more fatigued. Are there any guidelines in the instructions as to how often you should replace it even it it doesn't look damaged?
You know what I mean by fatigue? - e.g. when you get a paper clip and constantly bend it back and forward, and when you've bent it back and forward about 10 times, it breaks.


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

> Yes dear. And child seats are made of paper clips.



paper clips are made of metal. Child seats are made of metal. Metal suffers fatigue. What metal is your child seat made out of that flexes but doesn't suffer from fatigue?


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

spokes, forks and frames don't flex by a significant amount continually.
But, you know - if you're happy with it...


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

> Oh yes they do.




probably no more than say 10mm and that's _at most_, I would have thought less than that normally. I'm not sure though, if you _do_ actually know then please tell us which bit flexes, in which direction, and under what conditions.



> How much does the stay for my child seat flex?


I don't know, how much does it? But enough to provide 'suspension' apparently? I'm just going on if it's enough to provide 'suspension', it's enough to cause fatigue!

(And is it not the bracket that holds the seat to the stay, rather than the stay itself, that flexes? Is the stay not the bit that is already on your bike in the picture?)


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

oh for god's sake i'm not saying it's definitely dangerous - it's probably fine. I just wouldn't trust it that's all.
Fatigue occurs in metal when it's flexed, and does eventually break it, that's fact. Surely you're not denying that?
So your child seat isn't going to last ad infinitum, its lifespan is finite. But the manufacturers have probably done some theoretical calculations that prove that its lifespan to be something like 10,000 years before it will break due to flexing, it's these theoretical calculations that you're relying on. Blind faith in the validity of theoretical calculations though is where you and I differ.




> You are in a muddle, aren't you?



'Oooh I know, I'll refuse to clarify the terminology of the parts to add a bit of confusion'.
Even though what the parts are called is irrelevant.

How mature.
I don't really _care_ what the parts on your bike are called, I just thought the discussion might be better if I was using the correct terms. But I'm fine to just call it 'the bit that goes from x to y' to let you satisfy your lust for childilsh point scoring.


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

hmmm... still don't like that adjustable stem.


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## Elmer Fudd (4 Sep 2007)

Bonj, steel bends. If you harden it to 45-49 HRC it doesnt bend. if you've got enough strength and i doubt anyone has, you could snap it.

Then you get spring steel thats bouncy and bendy etc. once heat treated you will never change its formed shape from what it was made to unless using the metaphorical sledge hammer and you would have to give it some welly even with that. You get compression springs, that distort down but return to their normal size, then you get expansion springs that stretch and return to their normal length.
I've seen compression springs used in tooling for 15,000 ton drop presses, they don't break.
Then you get leaf springs, aka on the back of my old Capri, none of them ever snapped.
So, I'm pretty damn certain that the manufacturer of Mr.P's child seat would have researched the best spring steel / heat treatment requirements to suit his product. Especially in these days of where theres a blame theres a claim.

I'll get me coat


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

Elmer Fudd said:


> Bonj, steel bends. If you harden it to 45-49 HRC it doesnt bend. if you've got enough strength and i doubt anyone has, you could snap it.
> 
> Then you get spring steel thats bouncy and bendy etc. once heat treated you will never change its formed shape from what it was made to unless using the metaphorical sledge hammer and you would have to give it some welly even with that. You get compression springs, that distort down but return to their normal size, then you get expansion springs that stretch and return to their normal length.
> I've seen compression springs used in tooling for 15,000 ton drop presses, they don't break.
> ...



Are you saying that fatigue doesn't occur?


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## Smeggers (4 Sep 2007)

Walk on the wild-side Mr Paul..... fit Lefty Forks and a Rohloff Hub too


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## alecstilleyedye (4 Sep 2007)

don't ever sit near the window by the wings on a 747 bonj, you'll shoot yourself!


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## bonj2 (4 Sep 2007)

> "bonj" said:
> 
> 
> > it's probably fine, I just wouldn't trust it that's all
> ...


Ah, but they're not _my_ arguments. In case you haven't noticed, the arguments always _start_ with me saying "I wouldn't trust it". It's not intended as an argument. But people always then feel the need to jump in there with justifications of its worthiness, apparent proofs of the theoretical durability of it and arguments for the merits of its design.
If I _start_ a post in _soapbox_ with something like "I don't trust xxx", then fine. It's obviously intended as an argument. But why am I seemingly not allowed to cast aspersions on something elsewhere without being shot down in flames?


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## DLB (4 Sep 2007)

Bonj you are SO entertaining. I just love your reasoning. I go to work today leaving a sensible thread and come back to find you and Mr Paul having this really deep conversation (which had me in tears of laughter).

I was SO glad you transfered from the br site to here. More of the same please lad.


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