# How long should a bike frame last



## johnnyb47 (25 Apr 2021)

Hi,
Whilst out cycling today, if anything like me, you think of many random things.
As the miles slowly clicked by i got thinking how long my alloy Specialized Allez frame could potentially last before failing.
I seem to be averaging around 5000 miles a year along the road and it's now seen the best part of 17000 miles in total.
From my limited technical knowledge, i roughly understand aluminium has limited fatigue resistance compared to a steel frame bike, which will eventually end in the alloy bikes frame cracking.
Saying that though when i was a kid my two friends both had brand new bikes for Christmas. They were both identical steel framed racer bikes called Sun Solo and after around 7 months the light blue paint changed distinctly to a different shade were the cross bar met the head set tube within weeks of each other until one day, one of them developed a crack in the said place. They both got swiftly replaced by the manufacturer.
Back to my bike as an example, if i continue to use it as i am at the same level how long should i expect the frame to last before it eventually fails. It's a difficult question to answer, but there's got to be a given point as to when it would fail.


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## fossyant (25 Apr 2021)

If you look after it, a long time. 3 steel bikes around 30 years old and an alloy full sus thats about 5 years old.


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## numbnuts (25 Apr 2021)

My touring bike has done over 50,000 miles, but it's steel


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## Drago (25 Apr 2021)

It really is as Numbnuts suggests - a piece of string. Certainly a lot of alloy frames can feel 'dead' and uninteresting after a while, and the same with older alloy motorcycle frames (modern alloy perimiter beam frames are so rigid it doesn't really factor). But with so many innumerable variables involved its really impossible to say.


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## johnnyb47 (25 Apr 2021)

Exactly, how long is a piece of string. I suppose you've got to factor in the general road conditions, riders weight and how aggressive that person is in there cycling style, but there's got to be some sort of general window as to when a frame would eventually fail mileage wise🤔 I'm kind of roughly hedging my bets it would be anything from around 50k to 70k on an alloy bike like mine..(I'll let you know in 100 years time 🤣🤣)


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## chriswoody (25 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> Exactly, how long is a piece of string.



Exactly twice the distance as from one end to the middle.


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## HLaB (25 Apr 2021)

Only bike Ive broke was my Scandium frame which lasted 25,000 miles but the Ti frame I've temporarily retired has done 40,000miles.


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## johnnyb47 (25 Apr 2021)

That's interesting to read. What exactly broke on the frame. Did it happen due to normal wear and tare or was it abused or in an accident. 👍👍


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## Venod (25 Apr 2021)

Just seen this on Yorkshire Cycle Sales, do you think he caught something twixt tyre and frame ? he wants £30, worth it for forks etc.


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## Shack (25 Apr 2021)

Are you a sympathetic rider? Not afraid of a bit of maintenance and general TLC? I've got a Raleigh Granada I've had since new in 87 and still super comfy, but it's the running gear and wheel hubs that are feeling their age, the frame (although incredibly shabby paintwork) still rides well and runs true.


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Apr 2021)

Most frame failures can be attributed to manufacturing or material defects, so are somewhat random in nature. Poor examples in any material tend to fail very prematurely, leaving the decently built examples to soldier on for years.
With Aluminium and Titanium frames, weld defects at fabrication are normally the root cause, as they are not tolerant of things like weld undercut or atmospheric contamination.
Steel tends to fail if clumsy use of cutting tools puts a stress-raiser into a tube during manufacture, which after repeated load cycles, can eventually cause a crack to propagate.
My 1991 Raleigh Pioneer frame failed at 28 years as a result of cracking at the point where the chainstays are slotted for the dropouts to be brazed in. The frame was scruffy when acquired and probably well abused. It's the only steel frame failure I have had.


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## Drago (25 Apr 2021)

Not to mention far too much exposed sestpost. The upbulb if the failures ive seen over the years are just forawrd of the top tube/seat tube junction, and all had a huge length of seatpost acting as a lever. The modern trend for more comoact frame sizes doesn't seem to have helped.


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## cyberknight (25 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Not to mention far too much exposed sestpost. The upbulb if the failures ive seen over the years are just forawrd of the top tube/seat tube junction, and all had a huge length of seatpost acting as a lever. The modern trend for more comoact frame sizes doesn't seem to have helped.


indeed i have seen one and heard of a number of frames from one company that siffered that issue.My own alloy frames is 10 years old is still going strong apart from a repsray as the paint was tatty


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## Moodyman (25 Apr 2021)

Don't Specialised come with a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser? If so, the bike should outlast you.


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## Drago (25 Apr 2021)

cyberknight said:


> indeed i have seen one and heard of a number of frames from one company that siffered that issue.My own alloy frames is 10 years old is still going strong apart from a repsray as the paint was tatty


Because im a fat lardy git muscled hunk I always fit 400 or 450mm sear posts to spread the load, except on old frames like my Claud that are larger and have less expost post.


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## ianrauk (25 Apr 2021)

Moodyman said:


> Don't Specialised come with a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser? If so, the bike should outlast you.


My Van Nicholas has a lifetime warranty


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 Apr 2021)

ianrauk said:


> My Van Nicholas has a lifetime warranty



I should hope they do given the price of them! Particularly as Titanium frames suffer a disproportionately high weld failure rate considering they are only a tiny niche portion of the market. Back in the day when Raleighs were Raleighs they offered a 15 year frame warranty, even on low-end gas pipe models. As a youngster I never saw one fail apart from crash damage which was down to the rider being an idiot, not Raleigh's build quality.


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## johnnyb47 (25 Apr 2021)

Unfortunately even though my Specialized frame has a life time frame guarantee, it was a second hand bike for me, so I don't think it would apply


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## si_c (25 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Not to mention far too much exposed sestpost. The upbulb if the failures ive seen over the years are just forawrd of the top tube/seat tube junction, and all had a huge length of seatpost acting as a lever. The modern trend for more comoact frame sizes doesn't seem to have helped.



That's where my Felt failed, the weld at the seat tube/top tube cracked. I end of lifed the frame right there and as the frame was 2 months over 2 years old Felt advised that it wouldn't be covered under warranty. I could have had it repaired but finding someone to do the work and then get the bike repainted wasn't economical.

I think it likely that because I had nearly 400mm of exposed seatpost the leverage that gave my not inconsiderable bulk over ~20k miles of rough roads meant the frame failed early. A design failure IMO. Nevertheless I've not got a Kinesis Racelight 4s which has a more traditional frame geometry and as a result looks better, and is less likely to have issues.


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## si_c (25 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> Unfortunately even though my Specialized frame has a life time frame guarantee, it was a second hand bike for me, so I don't think it would apply



That's likely to be the case unfortunately. I wouldn't worry about it though, keep the bike in good condition and inspect it regularly when you clean it and you shouldn't have any issues.


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## Gunk (25 Apr 2021)

ianrauk said:


> My Van Nicholas has a lifetime warranty



Once you own a Van Nic, it feels like you have a bike for life.


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## classic33 (25 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> *Exactly, how long is a piece of string.* I suppose you've got to factor in the general road conditions, riders weight and how aggressive that person is in there cycling style, but there's got to be some sort of general window as to when a frame would eventually fail mileage wise🤔 I'm kind of roughly hedging my bets it would be anything from around 50k to 70k on an alloy bike like mine..(I'll let you know in 100 years time 🤣🤣)


25% of it's original length.


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## ianrauk (25 Apr 2021)

Gunk said:


> Once you own a Van Nic, it feels like you have a bike for life.


I certainly have that feeling with my VN


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## Smokin Joe (25 Apr 2021)

I don't mind a slightly sloping frame, but the top tube angle on some is absolutely ridiculous. Even a basic understanding of engineering will tell you that having a large amount of seatpost sticking up is putting a major strain on the frame.

Another thing I am wary of are "Fastback" seat stays. The design just does not look as structurally sound as the traditional method of taking the stays to the top of the tube and giving the frame extra rigidity at the point it is under most stress from the rider.


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## Johnno260 (25 Apr 2021)

Read the small print on the lifetime warranty, most will invalidate the warranty if a mechanic who isn’t a brand specialist or brand trained touch the bike.

My Merida warranty is invalid as the guy who sold me the bike and was a Merida stockist serviced the bike and upgraded the group set, after he closed the shop and became a mobile bike mechanic.


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## HLaB (25 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> Unfortunately even though my Specialized frame has a life time frame guarantee, it was a second hand bike for me, so I don't think it would apply


I've heard of TREK processing a 2nd hand claim but through a TREK dealer; its maybe worth seeing is you can find a Specialize dealer who will help you.


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## Saluki (25 Apr 2021)

1982 DB (Dronfield). Had new wheels, saddle etc over its life but still going strong. I love this bike. There are folks with Way older frames, but this is my oldest.


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## roley poley (25 Apr 2021)

just checked the warranty on my Genesis and they are lifetime for steel/aluminium/titanium and 5 years for carbon


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## MichaelW2 (25 Apr 2021)

My Dahon came with 5 year warranty. After 13 years of daily use I must have racked up 40-50,000 miles. There are 2 breaks in the frame but it came that way ( folding hinges).


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2021)

I've been riding my Al Cannondale CAAD 5 (<--- see avatar) off and on for about 18 years, during which time it must have done many tens of thousands of kms (not quite so many tens of thousands of miles ). I have weighed up to 115 kg (18+ stone) in those years. I have ridden rough roads and even a few bridleways on it. I have descended hills at 90 kph (55+ mph). No problems with it so far!  ***





*** Obviously, the frame will go and snap in the next few weeks now...


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## FrankCrank (26 Apr 2021)

There are many old boneshakers and penny-farthings still around. We need to go back to thicker, heavier, slower and shakier. Makes sense.


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## Arrowfoot (26 Apr 2021)

1 is the best in the scale. Ti last a lifetime.
Frame characteristics ranked in terms of importance from weight to shelf life by manufacturers hence the popularity of aluminium and carbon.

Those who prefer custom build, shelf life go for steel. Those who want it all as best as possible go for Ti. Those who are into races and light frames go for carbon. Those who are looking for affordability, all purpose and commuting go for aluminium.

Then you have individual preferences and materials do have personalities. Any bike you like and feels good riding and to look after is the best bike.


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## Drago (26 Apr 2021)

All frame materials last a lifetime.

Until suddenly they don't.


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## Paulus (26 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> All frame materials last a lifetime.
> 
> Until suddenly they don't.


Alas, some lifetimes are much shorter than others.


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## davidphilips (26 Apr 2021)

Bit like triggers brush, bike frames can last forever even if damaged they can be repaired. 

Have seen bikes over 100 years old and still going as good if not better than they would have when new, seen expensive carbon frames only a few months old involved in an accident and scrapped also seen a few alloy frames (think cheap bikes sold by a retailer ending in ford) cracking around the head tube, both i noticed where low cost road bikes and approximately 10 years old.

My own view is any of my bikes and i have quite a few could and should will outlive myself even if i only used any one every day.


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## Eric Olthwaite (26 Apr 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> We need to go back to thicker, heavier, slower and shakier.



On a personal level, I've been doing that for a few years now.


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## DCBassman (26 Apr 2021)

In the 80s version of Richard's New Bicycle Book, he gives the example of thin-tube (ie equivalent to steel frame) alloy bikes. These might last a pro racer a year, but forever for the average rider, assuming no abuse. With the benefit of another 30 years history, maybe a tad optimistic...
My 7005 Scott frame is perhaps a little large for me, and the seatpost sticks out around 4-5 inches, so I'm never likely to break it there, and anyhow, it's a fat-tube design. The mileage I do means that unless there are hidden horrors from the original owner, I will have to be quite unlucky to break it. Having said that, my routes invariably involve cattle grids, so who knows?


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## DCBassman (26 Apr 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> We need to go back to thicker, heavier, slower and shakier.


My only other bike is a vintage steel mixte, a bit heavier, a lot more comfortable. Although bigger tyres help there.


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## Venod (26 Apr 2021)

I like Cannondale aluminium frames I have had a three, I have one of their Carbon offerings at the moment which is a fantastic ride, I was hit by a car on an aluminium Cannondale the carbon forks broke in half but the frame was ok,

I wonder what the age of the oldest surviving Cannondale aluminium frame still being ridden is.

And if your wondering.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium


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## jowwy (26 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> *I should hope they do given the price of them! *


yet again another whinge about how much something costs.......you will never pay for it, so why keep whinging about it.


as for how long a frame lasts, god knows, never kept one longer than 3yrs


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## tallliman (26 Apr 2021)

I've broken 1 frame at about 12,000 miles at the seat post join. It started squeaking and I couldn't work out why....bike shop found it though!!

We've got to remember that even 10,000 miles is a high achieved life for a frame. Most people will buy bikes and not ride them that much so a lot of the higher milage frames will be in the 1% of achieved life but well within the expected life.


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## ianrauk (26 Apr 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I should hope they do given the price of them!



When it comes to enjoyment then the cost is irrelevant,
You carry on riding your crappy old skip finds and enjoy those. I'll carry on riding my very nice bike.


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## simongt (26 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> how long is a piece of string.


Depends on which end you measure it from - !


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## simongt (26 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> All frame materials last a lifetime.


Having seen on some bikes and other products 'Warranty only valid for the original owner', make you wonder if said owner keeps said product for five years or fifty, will the warranty still apply - ? I had a waterproof from a reputable maker with a 'lifetime warranty'. When the seam tapes began peeling off after a few years of moderate use but over ten years of ownership, I wrote to the maker and they admitted that the 'lifetime warranty' was in their view, ten years. However, they did send me a reel of seam tape - !


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## BrumJim (26 Apr 2021)

Both steel and welded frames have finite fatigue lives, but depends partly on how good the welding is, but mostly on how stressed it is.

Also have a Specialized Allez from 2009 ish. It has done me stirling service over commuting and long distance rides, and is still in one piece. Unlike this one:


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## si_c (26 Apr 2021)

BrumJim said:


> Both steel and welded frames have finite fatigue lives, but depends partly on how good the welding is, but mostly on how stressed it is.
> 
> Also have a Specialized Allez from 2009 ish. It has done me stirling service over commuting and long distance rides, and is still in one piece. Unlike this one:



My old Peugeot failed at exactly the same spot after about 7k miles of my ownership. At the time I put it down to me being heavy and mistreating it but I've seen a couple of steel frames fail the same way and now think that there was probably a stress riser at the bridge which caused it.


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## Johnno260 (26 Apr 2021)

I have seen this frame thing discussed before and it always causes dis-agreements.

Thing is sure Alum has a shelf life with fatigue, but some of that depends on the rider and conditions, if you hit every pothole and have the seat stem on the limits you for sure are going to stress things out.

With mine it’s Alum sure at some point I will look to change the frame but I like the bike it’s comfortable and it makes me smile, I don’t give a rats that it’s a 2016 bike, doesn’t mean I will abuse it though, I could replace it but I fall into the category of people that look after things and try and make them last as long as possible, the bikes always wiped down if it needs it and the drive train is kept clean and lubed, one of my main routes has a shared ped/cycle path that undulates a lot as it has entrances for fields and drive ways, anything like that I come off the saddle so I don’t transfer all my weight through the frame, and I can flex my knees to take some stress out.

Also as has been said before cost is subjective.

If you want a really good metal fatigue analysis get YellowSaddle on here, he knows his stuff.


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## BrumJim (26 Apr 2021)

si_c said:


> My old Peugeot failed at exactly the same spot after about 7k miles of my ownership. At the time I put it down to me being heavy and mistreating it but I've seen a couple of steel frames fail the same way and now think that there was probably a stress riser at the bridge which caused it.


Indeed. Have a good look at BS7608 or the TWI book "Fatigue Design for Welded Structures", but sadly you will need to pay for them. Welding introduces stresses in the parent metal as well as the weld itself which turn a material with an infinite fatigue life into one with a finite one. So expect a fatigue crack to start either in a weld or at the weld toe.

In my industry we tend to regard anyting over 10^7 cycles as practically infinte, but if you have the equipment, funds and patience, it will crack under any stress.


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## Blue Hills (26 Apr 2021)

Venod said:


> I like Cannondale aluminium frames I have had a three, I have one of their Carbon offerings at the moment which is a fantastic ride, I was hit by a car on an aluminium Cannondale the carbon forks broke in half but the frame was ok,
> 
> I wonder what the age of the oldest surviving Cannondale aluminium frame still being ridden is.
> 
> ...


i've got one broken down (ie bits taken off) in my garage.
ally, welded in the USA I'm pretty sure.
welds are beautiful and put more modern welded "pie crust" ally to shame.
But I've gone off ally.
and dale's weakness was all too often some non standard interfaces between frame and bits.
So I am putting my faith in stuff to outlive me in good old fashioned Ridgeback quality steel.
I have 3 90s ones.
The 4th one has only been retired after a rack mount broke off but the frame is still fine and I could always have doubled up the frame/guard mounts.

edit - remembered I have a near mint 5th one but have decided that the size isn't me - must sell.


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## Blue Hills (26 Apr 2021)

FrankCrank said:


> We need to go back to thicker, heavier, slower and shakier. Makes sense.


you talking about you or the things between your legs?


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## Drago (26 Apr 2021)

BrumJim said:


> Both steel and welded frames have finite fatigue lives



They do, yes. However, a properly designed, cosntructed and utilised frame could conceivably be used for centuries and never be stressed beyond its limits. It's not an inevitability.


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## Arrowfoot (26 Apr 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> I have seen this frame thing discussed before and it always causes dis-agreements.
> 
> Thing is sure Alum has a shelf life with fatigue, but some of that depends on the rider and conditions, if you hit every pothole and have the seat stem on the limits you for sure are going to stress things out.
> 
> ...


Of the 4 common materials, only aluminium has flex memory and over time fails due to metal fatigue. No amount of wiping will help, it the nature of material. The only way to stop fatigue is not to use it or use it sparingly. It is however great while it last and best value for money and affordable. 

Agree on the Yellow saddle though.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2021)

Red frames rust faster


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## Arrowfoot (26 Apr 2021)

BrumJim said:


> Both steel and welded frames have finite fatigue lives, but depends partly on how good the welding is, but mostly on how stressed it is.
> 
> Also have a Specialized Allez from 2009 ish. It has done me stirling service over commuting and long distance rides, and is still in one piece. Unlike this one:
> View attachment 585860


Steel bikes if well constructed and maintained to stop rust will last a lifetime. Hence it is popular for custom build and popular with uni students who can only afford second hand and then sell it on when they complete their studies.


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## Johnno260 (26 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Of the 4 common materials, only aluminium has flex memory and over time fails due to metal fatigue. No amount of wiping will help, it the nature of material. The only way to stop fatigue is not to use it or use it sparingly. It is however great while it last and best value for money and affordable.
> 
> Agree on the Yellow saddle though.



haha I wasn't suggesting cleaning it helps, just meant it in terms of looking after something in this case the paint.

Like you said sooner or later it will fail, but you can take steps is all I meant, smashing into potholes etc and having the seat stem to the max won't help was all I was trying to say from a fatigue pov.

And like you said it's great value for money. 

I have seen CF take a what I would call a light hit in the wrong place and fail.

My next bike I would like to last me a few years next time I feel a replacement is due, I have been looking at Reilly Ti frames from Brighton.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2021)

After 26 years, sold my steel bike I got for my 18th birthday. The frame was absolutely fine as were original wheels and drive train etc. It was before I took up long distance cycling so was mainly used for the daily commute and the odd trip out for 1.5 hours or so.


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## Arrowfoot (26 Apr 2021)

Johnno260 said:


> haha I wasn't suggesting cleaning it helps, just meant it in terms of looking after something in this case the paint.
> 
> Like you said sooner or later it will fail, but you can take steps is all I meant, smashing into potholes etc and having the seat stem to the max won't help was all I was trying to say from a fatigue pov.
> 
> ...


There is no looking after an aluminium frame unlike a steel frame. The nature of the material causes flex and hence metal fatigue as long as you use it
No argument on CF, it cannot handle impact. It is the lightest material and used for competition and fitness training. 

Ti is the best, hence life time warranty for frames from manufacturers. As bike geometry is more or less the same for a human being and Ti does not need paint work it will look good and you only upgrade the groupset. Its a keeper. Hence very little on the second hand market.


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## Johnno260 (26 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> There is no looking after an aluminium frame unlike a steel frame. The nature of the material causes flex and hence metal fatigue as long as you use it
> No argument on CF, it cannot handle impact. It is the lightest material and used for competition and fitness training.
> 
> Ti is the best, hence life time warranty for frames from manufacturers. As bike geometry is more or less the same for a human being and Ti does not need paint work it will look good and you only upgrade the groupset. Its a keeper. Hence very little on the second hand market.



CF I have no desire to own, it's overkill for my requirements.

Ti I would like and to be honest when I want/need to replace my current bike I will have a good look at Reillys show room.


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## Blue Hills (26 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Steel bikes if well constructed and maintained to stop rust will last a lifetime. Hence it is popular for custom build and popular with uni students who can only afford second hand and then sell it on when they complete their studies.


Possible some may decide they like cycling around and keep them?
Personally I prefer second-hand steel over new ally.


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## Blue Hills (26 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> As bike geometry is more or less the same for a human being


Go into hiding now before the bike industry takes out a contract on you.
(not getting at you)


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## Venod (26 Apr 2021)

Ti is my favourite frame material, I have had five, and everyone of them I thought this is a bike for life, but things change, the first one an Airborne (they became Van Nic) was not getting used as I was doing lots of MTB and running, so sold it to a mate who still rides it and it looks like new, the second a Sunday Cycles ( they became Sabbath) split where the butting of the top tube changed near the head tube, it was a very light triple butted frame, a mate at work welded it and I rode it on fixed for a while before selling, I think its still going but back on gears. the third a Kinesis Gran Fondo, a very nice frame but limited to 23mm with guards, I did run 25mm but they were very close, the fourth a Van Nicholas Chinook, a very lively quick frame but I was spoilt by the comfort of the bigger tubeless tyres that I was running on the fifth Ti frame, the Van Nic would only take 25 mm max.
I still have the fifth Ti frame and this will probably be a bike for life, its a Planet X Pickenflcik and was the cheapest of them all, it takes massive tyres even with mudguards, it's had lots of abuse and its still going strong, with a good clean it looks like new.


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## Drago (26 Apr 2021)

Whatever works best for a given application and design is my favourite material.


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## roubaixtuesday (26 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Whatever works best for a given application and design is my favourite material.



Exactly. 

For certain applications, pasta is the ideal material for a bicycle...


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## Johnno260 (26 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Whatever works best for a given application and design is my favourite material.



And budget.


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## Smokin Joe (26 Apr 2021)

Aluminium will last far longer than most people want to keep a frame for. I like it myself.


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## Rooster1 (27 Apr 2021)

My GIant Defy (Alu) has done 30,000 miles and doing just fine.

I have only had to replace every component a few times.


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## Alien8 (27 Apr 2021)

johnnyb47 said:


> As the miles slowly clicked by i got thinking how long my alloy Specialized Allez frame could potentially last before failing.


My 2009 aluminium Allez has managed 48,550 miles so far without incident ... to the frame anyway.


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## Smokin Joe (27 Apr 2021)

People who tell you they wouldn't have an aluminium frame because it will break are happy to ride round with aluminium brake calipers, stems, bars and cranks.


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## Drago (27 Apr 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> People who tell you they wouldn't have an aluminium frame because it will break are happy to ride round with aluminium brake calipers, stems, bars and cranks.


...in cars with aluminium engines, aluminium suspension arms, even full aluminium structures on some models, and enjoying trips abroad in aluminium jet airliners...


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## johnnyb47 (27 Apr 2021)

Alien8 said:


> My 2009 aluminium Allez has managed 48,550 miles so far without incident ... to the frame anyway.


Wow, That's some serious mileage you've covered there on your bike. As it's a 2009 Allez (like mine) I'm assuming your forks are carbon. How have they faired up to that great mileage 👍👍


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## tyred (27 Apr 2021)

My 1937 Humber still rides well.


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## Zipp2001 (28 Apr 2021)

My carbon Zipp2001 (1993) has taken a back seat the last 10 years, but it was my daily ride for almost 10 years. After that it was used mainly for weekly club Time Trails and century and double century rides. It's sitting at a tad over 110,000 miles, and now is set-up as a Single Speed for it's senior years. I'm expecting this bike will outlast me.


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## simongt (28 Apr 2021)

Rooster1 said:


> I have only had to replace every component a few times.


Ahh, a two wheeled Trigger's broom - !


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## matticus (28 Apr 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> People who tell you they wouldn't have an aluminium frame because it will break are happy to ride round with aluminium brake calipers, stems, bars and cranks.


On the one hand ... that's an excellent point!
On the other ... we expect to get more miles out of frames than handlebars [think the manufacturers recommend changing every few years IIRC?]

(Failure rates are just statistics, not predictions.)


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## tallliman (28 Apr 2021)

My handlebars have done about 21,000miles, they were carried over from the frame I broke mentioned earlier in the thread.


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## matticus (28 Apr 2021)

tallliman said:


> My handlebars have done about 21,000miles, they were carried over from the frame I broke mentioned earlier in the thread.


Well done.


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## Venod (28 Apr 2021)

matticus said:


> On the other ... we expect to get more miles out of frames than handlebars [think the manufacturers recommend changing every few years IIRC?]


Does anybody change their handlebars from fatigue concerns ?
In well over 50 years of owning bicycles I have never done or even considered this.


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## davidphilips (28 Apr 2021)

Venod said:


> Does anybody change their handlebars from fatigue concerns ?
> In well over 50 years of owning bicycles I have never done or even considered this.


Only with carbon bars (my view) but dont even know any one who has ever changed alloy bars over fatique issues?


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## Drago (28 Apr 2021)

Venod said:


> Does anybody change their handlebars from fatigue concerns ?
> In well over 50 years of owning bicycles I have never done or even considered this.


The bikes I use for training get ridden and (quite literally) thrown around very hard. Ive seen one complete failure on a students bike, and plenty with early warning cracks in the finish on other bikes, so I replace them every 2nd year. A lot of MTB racers do the same.

As for the rest of my bikes, nah, don't replace them. The chances of failure are less likely and my pre ride checks would, one hopes, catch it before it killed me.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Apr 2021)

People are happily riding refurbished 1960's bikes with all the original alloy components cleaned up and working perfectly.


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## Hover Fly (28 Apr 2021)

Venod said:


> Does anybody change their handlebars from fatigue concerns ?
> In well over 50 years of owning bicycles I have never done or even considered this.


Back in the 90s I crack detected (whiting and dye) a par of 20ish year old Cinellis and the stem, the results were pretty shocking, especially from the stem. Since then I change the bars every 10-12 years and use a steel stem if I can.


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## Gunk (28 Apr 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> People are happily riding refurbished 1960's bikes with all the original alloy components cleaned up and working perfectly.



This is a 1962 CB I restored last year and virtually everything on it was cleaned, refurbished and reused. Every component was as good as it was 60 years ago.


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## FrankCrank (29 Apr 2021)

My aly folder snapped in two a year or so back, where I've marked it in orange:





Bike was a over a dozen years old, but little used, just for trips away. Clean break right along the weld.

Had an old steel folder frame, so transferred a lot of the parts to this:






I'm happy to ride an aly diamond framed bike, but would not like to own another aly folding bike.

Although I'm a porky 13 stone, I'm well within any weight limit. Can only put the failure down to fatigue stress, either through bad design, or badly welded. Anyway, glad to have come away unscathed


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## matticus (29 Apr 2021)

Smokin Joe said:


> People are happily riding refurbished 1960's bikes with all the original alloy components cleaned up and working perfectly.


... and I've seen someone break alloy bars at 2am. Not "racey" lightweight jobs either.

50-year-old parts often work perfectly. And then they break. But not always.


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## mustang1 (29 Apr 2021)

Aluminium does have a fatigue life but I would imagine a Spesh Allez' fatigue life is beyond anything a human can put it through (it ain't like those old airplanes that used to fall out of the sky due to fatigued rivets). 

Btw, what's all this thing about steel is for life? It rusts and will fail. Aluminium does corrode but it bubbles over at the corrosion point and so there is no weakness that occurs. 

In other words, I'd imagine an alu frame is for life and a steel frame could be.


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## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

mustang1 said:


> Btw, what's all this thing about steel is for life? It rusts and will fail.


You mean steal _might _rust, and _if _it does so to a sufficient degree then it _might _fail. There are sufficient century+ aged frames in regular use to suggest that it is far from a fait accompli.


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## BrumJim (29 Apr 2021)

mustang1 said:


> Aluminium does have a fatigue life but I would imagine a Spesh Allez' fatigue life is beyond anything a human can put it through (it ain't like those old airplanes that used to fall out of the sky due to fatigued rivets).
> 
> Btw, what's all this thing about steel is for life? It rusts and will fail. Aluminium does corrode but it bubbles over at the corrosion point and so there is no weakness that occurs.
> 
> In other words, I'd imagine an alu frame is for life and a steel frame could be.



Both welded steel and Aluminium frames (not an expert on carbon fibre or titanium) _will_ fail in fatigue eventually. If either are well-designed, they will not fail before the rider does.


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## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

Thats the point. If it outlives the customer it will have achieved its purpose, so it could be made from dung and bark and it will have succeeded if it lives a day longer than the purchaser.

All material will eventually degrade if left long enough, or in conditions conducive to its degradation, regardless of whether is used or not. Heat, cold, cycles of heat and cold, moisture, environmental chemicals, radiation, solar radiation, they will get _everything _eventually. Every material from metallic hydrogen through to oganesson, every possibly conbination, mix or alloy, without exception.

That being the case, the only sensible measure is whether it is likely to fail as a result of the use to which it is put. The ability of these materials to withstand the forces encountered during use are really down to an appropriate design and construction for any given material, rather than the material itself.


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## mustang1 (29 Apr 2021)

Reading some more posts, it reminded me of when the alloy bars on my bike snapped. BUT I had loads of warnings, over several weeks in fact. I could clearly feel being in the bars but this Muppet thought he was getting stronger, alas the bars were telling me swap them.


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