# Glasgow clyde cycle tunnel upgrade



## Joseph (19 Nov 2008)

Not sure where's the best place to post this, but I think there's a few Glasgow commuters around here.

FYI, the south bound cycle/pedestrian tunnel is now closed. Presumably this is for the upgrade work (surface repairs, secure entry system).

It's not clear exactly what you're meant to do - I cycled through the northbound tunnel instead, but much slower than usual (and a pretty weird experience, as all the corners are the 'wrong' way around for anyone accustomed to going in the correct tunnels!).

I've emailed the council asking for more details... will report back if I hear anything 

Joseph


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2008)

Joseph (are you the Joseph who live across the road from me?),

This is the perfect place, as I know exactly what is going on!

The council got some money this year to upgrade one side of the tunnel. So they have closed the southbound tunnel and will be upgrading it over the next 5 week. As part of this they are putting in a door entry system, which when you arrive at the tunnel, you will have to press a call button, before being allowed in. It will also have CCTV.

After the 5 weeks of work, the south tunnel will reopen and the north will close indefinitely as they don't 'currently' have enough funding to upgrade this side.

I have issues with this work:

1) It isn't particularly safe to have traffic in two directions in these tunnels due to the lack of space. I think it will only be a matter of time before there is an accident in one of the curved sections involving a collision of cyclists going in opposite directions. 

2) The security system will slow down progress. Fair enough if it really does increase security, however, it actually creates a problem at the entrances. Both entrances have ground above where people hang about. Being held up at the entrance might just make cyclists a target at that point. 

3) Once the Southbound tunnel is reopened, I am certain that the Northbound tunnel will be abandoned and we will be left with a facility that will be secure (perhaps) but will be substandard in it's safety (i.e. risk of collision). 

However, this is going to happen. I will be interested to see how it actually works....


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2008)

P.S. Here is a video of the northbound tunnel. Notice the blind corners and lack of width. There will be accidents, I'm sure!


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## Mr Pig (19 Nov 2008)

magnatom said:


> The security system will slow down progress.



Not just that but it will remain in fully working order for about three hours! After the local cherubs have had a play with it you're going to be locked out of the tunnel every other day.


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## Joseph (19 Nov 2008)

magnatom said:


> Joseph (are you the Joseph who live across the road from me?),



Yep  Thanks for the pointer to this site!



> 2) The security system will slow down progress. Fair enough if it really does increase security, however, it actually creates a problem at the entrances. Both entrances have ground above where people hang about. Being held up at the entrance might just make cyclists a target at that point.


A few months ago they were saying they'd be issueing 'key fobs' or 'swipe cards' for regular users; not sure if this is still the case or not.



> 3) Once the Southbound tunnel is reopened, I am certain that the Northbound tunnel will be abandoned and we will be left with a facility that will be secure (perhaps) but will be substandard in it's safety (i.e. risk of collision).


Yeah, doesn't sound good. I'm not sure what other option they have without any money


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> Not just that but it will remain in fully working order for about three hours! After the local cherubs have had a play with it you're going to be locked out of the tunnel every other day.




Maybe, but I am reliably informed that they have learned lessons from the past, and that the new system will be vandal proof. Hmmm. I wonder if the designers took into account the focus and ingenuity of the Glasgow ned....


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## magnatom (19 Nov 2008)

Joseph said:


> Yep  Thanks for the pointer to this site!



Welcome to the forum! 

Have a look here (page 17 onwards). We are organising a wee bike ride on the 21st of December. Would you be up for it? It would be a good way to meet you neighbour! 

I hadn't heard about the key fob thing. If that is the case that would help, but how do you register as a regular user? If you hear from the council, let us know!

I've always though a tunnel users group might be a good idea.....


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## Mr Pig (19 Nov 2008)

magnatom said:


> Maybe, but I am reliably informed that they have learned lessons from the past, and that the new system will be vandal proof.



Nothing is vandal proof.


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## Joseph (19 Nov 2008)

magnatom said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Have a look here (page 17 onwards). We are organising a wee bike ride on the 21st of December. Would you be up for it? It would be a good way to meet you neighbour!



Unfortunately we're away that weekend  I'll try to make the next one.



> I hadn't heard about the key fob thing. If that is the case that would help, but how do you register as a regular user? If you hear from the council, let us know!


Will do. I'm guessing registration will probably mostly involve paying for the fob, similar schemes are usually £5-£10 to buy it.



> I've always though a tunnel users group might be a good idea.....


I'm sure it'd help - it did get neglected for a long time...


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## Joseph (11 Dec 2008)

Didn't get a reply myself, but one of my colleagues did get some extra info:

_"On your question I can advise that we are installing a robust secure entry system in the southbound pedestrian/cycle tunnel. This is hopefully the first phase of the project which will hopefully move onto the northbound tunnel as well. Funding is still being sought for the next stage. The total project will cost getting on for £250,000. The southbound tunnel will be complete in mid January._

_The system will allow access to the cycle tunnel to bona fide users and deny access to those who want to use it as a location for anti-social behaviour. This I hope will make the use of the tunnel a much improved and undaunting experience which I also hope will encourage increased usage by cyclists and pedestrians._

_We have not finalised our interim operational plans for the situation where only one tunnel has access control but it is likely to be the case that cyclists wishing to travel north across the river will still be able to use the unimproved northbound tunnel or dismount and walk through the secured southbound tunnel. Southbound cyclists will be able to cycle southbound. Pedestrians are able to use either tunnel in either direction as at present."_


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## magnatom (11 Dec 2008)

Thanks for that Joseph. I can really see cyclists dismounting and walking through the tunnel! (Actually I've seen a few who have had to dismount on the way up!). I'd be happier if they keep the unimproved tunnel open, although the idiots will probably congregate there...

You weren't earlier this morning where you Jospeh? I came across a numpty cyclist this morning . A video will follow shortly!

We really need to meet up over a beer sometime!


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## Joseph (11 Dec 2008)

magnatom said:


> Thanks for that Joseph. I can really see cyclists dismounting and walking through the tunnel! (Actually I've seen a few who have had to dismount on the way up!).



Yep - oddly it always seems to be the ones with mountain bikes that dismount...

It'll be interesting to see what happens...



> I'd be happier if they keep the unimproved tunnel open, although the idiots will probably congregate there...


I did see two coppers down their earlier in the week telling some neds to go off home... and had to resist cycling over a drunk ned lying stretched across the cycle path yesterday 



> You weren't earlier this morning where you Jospeh? I came across a numpty cyclist this morning . A video will follow shortly!


No... this morning I was later than usual 



> We really need to meet up over a beer sometime!


 I'll try and drop you a note once I've figured out my post-xmas plans, that's probably a good time...


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## magnatom (11 Dec 2008)

> Can't you two just talk over the fence?



Not quite, there is a play park and some car parking spaces between us. The internet is much more efficient!


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## Mr Pig (11 Dec 2008)

what I don't understand is this. Some Johnny two-stars will be sitting in a control room somewhere, India probably, watching his little monitor with his finger hovering over the button that opens the gate. 

Cyclist comes along, says hello and is allowed into the tunnel. Couple of grave-dodgers come strolling along and are likewise allowed into the tunnel. Two young urban heroes walk up, what's Johnny going to do now? 

Will all young people be unable to use the tunnel? Is Johnny going to make judgement calls as to whether people want to walk through the tunnel or loiter in it? I'm not sure they've thought this through.


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## magnatom (11 Dec 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> what I don't understand is this. Some Johnny two-stars will be sitting in a control room somewhere, India probably, watching his little monitor with his finger hovering over the button that opens the gate.
> 
> Cyclist comes along, says hello and is allowed into the tunnel. Couple of grave-dodgers come strolling along and are likewise allowed into the tunnel. Two young urban heroes walk up, what's Johnny going to do now?
> 
> Will all young people be unable to use the tunnel? Is Johnny going to make judgement calls as to whether people want to walk through the tunnel or loiter in it? I'm not sure they've thought this through.



Good point. I suppose it is supposed to work as more of a deterrent because you need to show your face on CCTV to get into the tunnel. So if anything happens, they have your face on camera.

Actually, you've got me worried now. Will they let me in when I am hot sweaty and breathing heavily!


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## Mr Pig (11 Dec 2008)

magnatom said:


> Will they let me in when I am hot sweaty and breathing heavily!



I'm sure they will. But will they let you out?


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## Joseph (11 Dec 2008)

Mr Pig said:


> what I don't understand is this. Some Johnny two-stars will be sitting in a control room somewhere, India probably, watching his little monitor with his finger hovering over the button that opens the gate.



I'd presume they're going to block the people carrying the crates of beer and sofas into the tunnel 

I'd guess they'll also be keeping an eye on the tunnel itself, and anyone found applying impromptu decorations will be kept in the tunnel to await a free taxi to partick nick.


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## magnatom (11 Dec 2008)

Joseph said:


> I'd presume they're going to block the people carrying the crates of beer and sofas into the tunnel
> 
> I'd guess they'll also be keeping an eye on the tunnel itself, and anyone found applying impromptu decorations will be kept in the tunnel to await a free taxi to partick nick.



I remember coming across a beer keg at the bottom of the tunnel. I always wondered if someone had nicked it and was taking it home, found it easy to get to the bottom and found that getting it up the other end, wasn't quite so easy!


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## Joseph (23 Feb 2009)

FWIW: had a quick chat with one of the workers (who was blocking the open cycle path with his van  ) last week, and he reckoned the south going track would be open again around the middle of next week. Not sure how much faith I put in that info though...


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## magnatom (23 Feb 2009)

Thanks for the update Joseph. It's been a looooong 5 weeks!


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## Joseph (18 Mar 2009)

Well **** me. It *is *open. It just looks like it's still closed.

Basically, there were workmen in the other tunnel this morning that asked me if I could use the north bound one. "Is that open?!" says me, he says "should be"... I think "yeah, right... guess I should at least check". Cycle down... still looks bolted closed.

Then spot there is an intercom thing... press... "Can I help you?" "err, can I get in the tunnel?" (not really sure what else he was expecting he could help me with...).. then one of the small doors unlocked allowing me into a small corridor. Then at some random time later the other door opens to let you out the small corridor (and of course by the time I'm finish rattling all these and trying to move a bike backwards and forwards down a narrow sloped tunnel) I've lost my balance and got a (very slightly) grazed knee.

Inside of tunnel looks completely unchanged. I think I even went over some glass 

At the exit, one door seemed to have unlocked anyway... then... not sure.. the second door kind of unlocked a bit later. Queue one more slightly grazed knee.

Not the smoothest of experiences  I'd also hazard a guess it's actually been ""open"" for a while...


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## mr_cellophane (18 Mar 2009)

So a bit like an air lock to get in and out ?

How old are these tunnels ?


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## magnatom (18 Mar 2009)

That's interesting Joseph, as I popped down there on Monday. I pressed the button and nothing happened for ages, eventually I heard somebody for a few seconds and then they cut off. Tried again and a while later they came back on again and said 'can you hear me...' then nothing. Tried the gate, nothing happened. I gave up and went in the other tunnel.

Have to say I'm not too impressed with the entrance system. Looks very ominous and it will be a pain to use every day. I honestly think this will reduce use of the tunnel, not increase it. 

It's also not good to hear that the tunnel itself still has glass in it and is in the same state. What have they been doing for the last few months!

I'll try it tomorrow and video my experience.


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## magnatom (18 Mar 2009)

mr_cellophane said:


> So a bit like an air lock to get in and out ?
> 
> How old are these tunnels ?



You can find some tunnel facts here.


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## Joseph (18 Mar 2009)

mr_cellophane said:


> So a bit like an air lock to get in and out ?



Kind of like an airlock... but the "walls" are bars that wouldn't be out of place in a high security prison


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## Joseph (18 Mar 2009)

magnatom said:


> Have to say I'm not too impressed with the entrance system. Looks very ominous and it will be a pain to use every day. I honestly think this will reduce use of the tunnel, not increase it.
> 
> It's also not good to hear that the tunnel itself still has glass in it and is in the same state. What have they been doing for the last few months!
> 
> I'll try it tomorrow and video my experience.



Ah, interesting, so it's obviously only just started working in the last few days then. Bet they've not had many people going down it, it doesn't look like a public tunnel entrance!

I think there was at least 'less' glass than 'usual'...

It could well be a PITA; I was vaguely expecting that cyclists would get to use the big single gate... you know... the one that's across the cycle path...


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## Downward (18 Mar 2009)

Do they have to let you out the other end ??


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## Joseph (18 Mar 2009)

Downward said:


> Do they have to let you out the other end ??



I'm not entirely sure.

The first door seemed to just be unlocked. The outer one wasn't... but seemed to unlock itself before they bothered to answer the intercom... so who knows


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## Downward (18 Mar 2009)

Joseph said:


> I'm not entirely sure.
> 
> The first door seemed to just be unlocked. The outer one wasn't... but seemed to unlock itself before they bothered to answer the intercom... so who knows




Sounds a bit spooky to me.
I'd take some provisions incase you got locked in !


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## magnatom (18 Mar 2009)

Downward said:


> Sounds a bit spooky to me.
> I'd take some provisions incase you got locked in !




If you don't hear from me tomorrow you'll know where I am......


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## Joseph (19 Mar 2009)

It seemed much smoother this morning, though a bit of a PITA having to stop and restart on the uphill section to get through the gate; I'll put yesterday down to teething troubles


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## magnatom (19 Mar 2009)

Joseph said:


> It seemed much smoother this morning, though a bit of a PITA having to stop and restart on the uphill section to get through the gate; I'll put yesterday down to teething troubles




Aye, I'm reserving judgment on it. What annoys me the most is the fact that the entrance is on the pedestrian walkway, so you need to scuttle across to press the button and get on the path, and back off at the other end.

I'll put a video up when I get a chance to see what others think.


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## Joseph (19 Mar 2009)

Got a response from the council:

"The installation of the controlled access system to the southbound cycle tunnel is complete except for some signs and some minor snagging work. It was opened for use on Tuesday 17th March. I'm sorry that the work took a bit longer than envisaged and that no doubt you were inconvenienced for that time. 
The work will continue over the coming months to repaint the tunnels to further improve the experience of using the tunnel. I am really hopeful that the system will prevent the loitering, graffiti and other anti-social behaviour that has become the norm at certain times in the cycle tunnels and that the number of people using the cycle/pedestrian tunnel will increase with time. It is my intention to install an identical system in the northbound tunnel but this depends on getting finance confirmed over the next few weeks.

Please be aware that until we get the full signage in place that at a glance the gates may seem locked. This is not the case - the lock bolts are merely locked back in the open position and you should approach the gates and press the button on the stainless steel box. this will put you in voice contact with the control room who will see you on cctv and activate the gate opening mechanism. Any user feedback is welcome!

If you require further information please feel free to email me directly.

Many thanks for your interest and patience."

I wonder if there's any forum around that has a more cyclists that uses the clyde tunnel in? (Is anyone lurking here that does?  ) It seems like it'd be useful if there was a good forum for people to interact with the council on issues like that...


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## Mr Pig (19 Mar 2009)

> Why don't they leave the gates unlocked during safer times?



In Glasgow? What times might that be?? ;0)


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## Joseph (19 Mar 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> In Glasgow? What times might that be?? ;0)



I think he must mean the 90 minutes during the Rangers/Celtic games twice a year


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## killiekosmos (19 Mar 2009)

Joseph said:


> I think he must mean the 90 minutes during the Rangers/Celtic games twice a year



Isn't that when the Jags fans come out the closet?


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## magnatom (19 Mar 2009)

OK guys, here is the video of the new entry and exit system. Compare it to one of my previous tunnel videos.

Joseph, I was planning on adding something on my blog about this and letting the folk at gobike know about it. I think there are a few tunnel users in gobike. I'll sort it out over the weekend.


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## Bman (19 Mar 2009)

One way of doing it I suppose. 

Pretty much how i imagined it from your description.

I still think its a little poor. 

If they just had a camera at each end, and those under-road sensors (like you get at traffic lights and car park entrances) or an IR sensor to alert the people who monitor that intercom, they could open it before you get there. Or even a pass system like previously suggested.

Still, it should prevent broken glass etc.

I didnt see any mention of it, but I presume (and hope) that tunnel is a one way system? 

Edit: So I see they already have CCTV. All they need then is a method of detecting an approaching cyclist. A simple IR heat sensor cant be that expensive


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## arranandy (19 Mar 2009)

Looks a bit of a pain in the butt. Hopefully it will work smoothly and you don't find yourself stuck in the tunnel of an evening


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## lazyfatgit (19 Mar 2009)

how about swimming across? looks like a right faff.

what's the chances of the tunnel being kept better and more people using it?
i'm sure the neds will still congregate at the entrance and the gates will be a vandal magnet.

and i can't believe how long it's taken to fit.

maybe i'm just cynical.


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## 4F (19 Mar 2009)

Can you not just go for it and cycle through the road tunnel ?


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## Joseph (19 Mar 2009)

magnatom said:


> OK guys, here is the video of the new entry and exit system. Compare it to one of my previous tunnel videos.



Nice! Though that's the southbound tunnel, not the northbound one 



> Joseph, I was planning on adding something on my blog about this and letting the folk at gobike know about it. I think there are a few tunnel users in gobike. I'll sort it out over the weekend.


gobike... that's a new one on me. Looks interesting though! My request to join the mailing list is pending


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## Joseph (19 Mar 2009)

FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:


> Can you not just go for it and cycle through the road tunnel ?



I don't think there's anything to technically stop you doing this (I don't remember any 'no bikes' signs or similar).

I'd imagine it'd be a bit smelly and hence unpleasant (at least in rush hour).

It is a dual carriage way (ie. 2 lanes in each tunnel), but there's double white lines and 'stay in lane' signs all the way down, which would technically make it illegal for car drivers in the same lane as you to overtake you? (And you'd really struggle to keep above 10 mph on the way up I'd reckon)

I'm sure I do remember meeting a cyclist that had done it (given the sign posts to the cycle tunnel are, urm, "obscure" would be the polite term I think).


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## lazyfatgit (19 Mar 2009)

I'm sure i've seen a no cycling sign Southbound, and Northbound there are some directions on the rd off to the left before the tunnel.


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## Downward (19 Mar 2009)

Looks horrible to be fair !


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## magnatom (22 Mar 2009)

I've added an item to my blog here. I plan to send this link to the council. So feel free to leave any comments that you might want the council to read (reasonable comments of course!)


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## ronmac (22 Mar 2009)

I haven't used tunnel in a while and don't think I can manage to until about 3rd week in April. However I will give it a try about then and leave my comments here and on Magnatoms blog.
I must say I can't see the purpose of secure entry system. After all it is a public right of way (I think) and even neds will be allowed through if they don't advertise the fact they're neds at entrance. O.k. if they do anything wrong in tunnel they may get locked in but surely if they did anything wrong before then security could have been waiting for them at exit.
Whether it's allowed or not you would have to be mad to cycle through road section. The lanes are very narrow and the fumes would be horrendous.


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## magnatom (22 Mar 2009)

ronmac said:


> Whether it's allowed or not you would have to be mad to cycle through road section. The lanes are very narrow and the fumes would be horrendous.




I'm almost certain that it isn't allowed to cycle through the main tunnel. As you say you would have to be mad. However, it is tempting. The southbound approach is all downhill and I'd bet you could build up quite a speed heading down there and into the tunnel! 

Maybe we should campaign for a tunnel car free day!


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## magnatom (25 Mar 2009)

Just an update on this. I've had one day where I've had to pull one of the gates open (the automatic system didn't work), I've had the doors open in the wrong order on the way out, and was nearly shut in, and today the large exit gate on the cycle path (which is supposed to be locked, was wide open.

Not a great start. Teething problems perhaps...


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## vavavikki (3 Jul 2009)

Is the tunnel in full operation now? I think I will give it a blast.


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## Jim_Noir (3 Jul 2009)

It is indeed, and if one side is closed then you can use the other side.... Best of luck, that climb out the tunnel in the heat, it's like a greenhouse in there in the winter!


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## Joseph (3 Jul 2009)

The tunnel is open both sides. There are security gates on the southbound side; press the call button and wait to get in. The first/last 100m of the southbound one are newly painted too, so it looks kinda nice for a bit 

Heatwise, it's been really rather cold down the tunnel the last few days; I guess it maintains a temperature of 18C or below due to it's underground nature, which would feel decidely chilly up until today...


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## vavavikki (27 Mar 2010)

Is the tunnel still good? Open 24/7?
thanks


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## Joseph (27 Mar 2010)

It's certainly open 24/7.

Occasionally they close one of the sides, you just have to use the other side.

Be careful at the corners; although it's always good to make sure you're able to stop within the distance you can see, be particularly mindful of it in the tunnel as you never know what you'll run into - anything from a sleeping ned lying in the mud to a left over beer bottle! A toot on a bell/horn can be a good idea.


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## vavavikki (27 Mar 2010)

what do you mean you have to use the other side if one is closed? do you know before you go in you cant get out the other side?


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## Joseph (27 Mar 2010)

Sorry, that perhaps wasn't clear.

There are in fact two tunnels - they are one-way for cyclists (unless one is closed). The south bound one is the East-most one.

So don't worry - if they close one of the tunnels, they do close both ends so you can't get in and hence use the other one :-)


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## vavavikki (27 Mar 2010)

ok cool, thanks for the tips c:


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## CharlesF (27 Mar 2010)

At present, only the Southbound tunnel is open and the security access is not working, the gate is wide open and an invitation to the neds to take up residence again. During February, I asked the Council when the tunnels would be fully open and this was the reply:
T_hanks for your email. I must apologise for overlooking it and not responding to you on time. _

_Hopefully you will have realised since you emailed that both cycle tunnels are now open and the security access system functioning on both. I’m very glad to hear that you find the new system reassuring to use._

_I plan to have the southbound tunnel fully painted this year and the northbound tunnel cleaned of smoke damage and painted as well. Better signs will also be put in place to guide users. This will further improve the experience for cyclists and pedestrians using the tunnels._

_I hope you continue to use the tunnel. Please email me directly if you have any further questions or comments._

_Regards_

_*Marco Bardelli*_
_*Structures Manager*_
_*Land & Environmental Services*_
_*Glasgow City Council

*_
​Not the case, and Marco hasn't come back with any other information. Looks like I will extend my commute via the squinty bridge.


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## magnatom (28 Mar 2010)

That's very interesting Charles. I've been meaning to contact the council about the tunnel. Obviously something has gone wrong with the security system, or more likely money has been shifted elsewhere.

I think cyclists using the tunnel two way is a safety issue, as highlighted by this video. It could have been a lot worse. 

Do you have an e-mail address for Marco?


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## Joseph (28 Mar 2010)

I've had several emails from Marco in response to complaints about the tunnel. I've also emailed him directly several times and never got any response (seems to be a bit of a persistent theme with land services...). Hence I'd recommend making contact through the complaints process (the online 'contact us' form on the council website).


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## magnatom (28 Mar 2010)

Fair enough. I'll try that then.

You'll have noticed I moved then!?


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## CharlesF (28 Mar 2010)

Magnatom, Marco email address is: Marco.Bardelli@glasgow.gov.uk.I'm going to follow Joseph's advice and lodge a complaint, as my last email to Marco came back with a "Out of Office" reply.


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## killiekosmos (28 Mar 2010)

Why not make a Freedom of Information request, which must be answered? 

"All information about the upgrade to the cycle lanes in the Clyde tunnel, to include, plans, funding information, risk assessments, consultations, complaints and complements, delays, snags and any revised plans or funding"?


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## HLaB (28 Mar 2010)

killiekosmos said:


> Why not make a Freedom of Information request, which must be answered?


OT I was speaking to somebody in Edinburgh Council and the 1st FoI request they got was from some bloke who wanted the council to reveal their secret file on UFO's  for some reason it ended up in the Development Control department


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## magnatom (28 Mar 2010)

killiekosmos said:


> Why not make a Freedom of Information request, which must be answered?
> 
> "All information about the upgrade to the cycle lanes in the Clyde tunnel, to include, plans, funding information, risk assessments, consultations, complaints and complements, delays, snags and any revised plans or funding"?



That's an exellent idea. I don't actually live within the council boundary any more. Does someone else within it want to do this? It looks easy on the website.

I'd still quite like to contact them directly. Especially as I have video evidence of the dangers.


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## killiekosmos (28 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> That's an exellent idea. I don't actually live within the council boundary any more. Does someone else within it want to do this? It looks easy on the website.
> 
> I'd still quite like to contact them directly. Especially as I have video evidence of the dangers.



Anyone can make an FoI request, does not matter where you live. You can also use email.


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## Joseph (29 Mar 2010)

magnatom said:


> Fair enough. I'll try that then.
> 
> You'll have noticed I moved then!?



I thought you were just taking a really long detour into work  I thought I'd sent you a congrats email (I certainly meant to!), but glad you found a new place, and just in time :-)

I've actually not been using the tunnel much lately (I've spent the majority of this year so far in Japan), and I'll be back in the UK next week but now in an office off St Enoch square. Looking forward to getting back on the bike, though not sure what route to take - anniesland cross -> city centre doesn't look to have any really fun routes (unless you like jumping red lights).

I can make the FoI request if wanted?

Also, please be cautious about suggestions made to the council about the tunnel being dangerous - there's 3 likely outcomes ('danger' is likely to invoke a lovely "H&S risk assessment"):



they open up the other tunnel instantly (unlikely?)
they put up warning signs at both ends "Two way cycle path - use caution, go SLOW" (which would be incredibly sensible)
They block off the cycle part of the open tunnel, hence completely removing the danger (my fear)
To be honest, it surprises me that a pedestrian hasn't yet been injured by a cyclist at one of the curves on the descent. Human instinct is to walk in the widest part, and the signing indicated that part is for cycles (only) is pretty much non-existent.


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## SavageHoutkop (29 Mar 2010)

see here
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
for FOI requests


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## magnatom (29 Mar 2010)

Joseph I didn't get an e-mail from you. 

If you could make the FOI request that would be great and I will attack them from the other angle! 

I know what you mean about pedestrians. I have considered on occasion saying something when they are on the cyclepath, but as you said, it is so badly signposted, that it isn't necessarily their fault.


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## BentMikey (29 Mar 2010)

Aren't pedestrians allowed to walk on both sides? It's only us that are confined to the cycle path side, speaking generally that is.


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## Joseph (7 Apr 2010)

Freedom of information request is in (sorry for the delay, been travelling).

BentMikey> do you mean both sides of a tunnel, or both tunnels?

Pedestrians are allowed to walk in both ways in both tunnels. Each tunnel has a pedestrian lane and a [usually one way] cycle lane, which are separated by a good solid metal barrier. From the design, it appears to me to be the intention that pedestrians should only use the pedestrian area, where they are well protected from any cyclists.


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## magnatom (7 Apr 2010)

Joseph said:


> Freedom of information request is in (sorry for the delay, been travelling).
> 
> BentMikey> do you mean both sides of a tunnel, or both tunnels?



Good man. I completely forgot about this, but I have just contacted the council via the web page asking for clarification and discussing the issue of two way cyclists. 

I let you know if I get a response.

I hope you had a nice trip Joseph!


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## BentMikey (7 Apr 2010)

My comment was meant generally for shared paths where there's a delineated cycle lane.


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## magnatom (7 Apr 2010)

BentMikey said:


> My comment was meant generally for shared paths where there's a delineated cycle lane.




Aye the Clyde Tunnel is a slightly unusual case, where it is in everyones interests to keep pedestrians and cyclists apart. The lack of signs, and the fact that the barrier is broken in places doesn't help and you need to expect the odd ped on the path.


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## MarchWithOneill (8 Apr 2010)

just read the 8 pages of this thread with interest as i live in paisley and will be doing a commute to hyndland by bicycle a few times a week.

I'd been all set just to cycle out paisley road west and cross the river at the science centre but this route will be the quickest way for me if it is viable.

i'll be starting work at 7.30am so by going this way i need to make sure that the tunnel is always open- has anyone had experiences of turning up and getting no reply on the intercom? I ask this as if i cannot get access by the time i retrace my steps and get to the next nearest crossing i will be late for work.

Also where exactly do i access the northbound tunnel and where does it bring me out- is it on Balshagray _Avenue that i come out? I'll be up that way at the weekend (scotstoun) so i might take a walk over to have a look at the tunnel entrances and exits that i'll be using.

thanks all
_


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## CharlesF (12 Apr 2010)

March, the Northbound Tunnel comes out on Dunbarton Rd with Smith St just to your left, enter it from Berghead Place off Govan Road.

Last time I used the tunnel, only the Southbound was open and operating with no security. That one comes out in Balshagray Crescent, if you are travelling north. You access the tunnel from Govan Rd just by the Linthouse Hosuing Association.

After an experience with a cyclist coming the other way who refused to move over, and then with some neds, I have a new route to work via the Squinty Bridge. Quite a big loop from Maryhill to Braehead, increasing my commute from 5 to 8 miles. I will only use the Tunnel if I have to visit Gartnavel.


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## CharlesF (12 Apr 2010)

Just seen I forgot to say "Welcome MarchwithOneill"!!


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## magnatom (15 Apr 2010)

I've had a reply this morning:



> Thanks for your email. Your potted history of the upgrading of the cycle tunnels is basically correct and I apologies for the length of time it’s taking to sort things out.
> 
> We have problem with the voice comms on the system and are pressing our maintenance contractor to sort it out. Also we are waiting on delivery of a new gate opening actuator which is proving difficult to source. To prevent this happening in future a spare is being purchased to keep on the shelf for immediate swap in and out.
> 
> ...



Hopefully these issues will be resolved soon....


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## toroddf (18 Apr 2010)

I have been through the tunnel twice during the last week from north to south. The entrances is not easy to find, to put it politely. The silt makes the descent to the bottom with a racing bike a bit of a Glaswegian Roulette. Oh, maybe this is the Glaswegian Roulette. 
I do not dare thinking about what happens if you get a two cyclists hitting each other. 

The main problem is the sign posting though. A needle in a haystack and all that. And I have been using the tunnel closest to Glasgow on my way back to Paisley again. I prefer the ferry or the bridge.


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## Joseph (19 Apr 2010)

They're been promising to improve the sign posting for a good 2 years from what I remember... not seen one single new sign in that time though. (I've still no idea what the 'official' way to continue North after coming out the tunnel is.)


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## toms87 (4 May 2010)

Hi all - used the tunnel for the first time on Sunday and found the half-heartedness of the whole system pretty amazing to be honest, this got my curiosity going and I happened across this thread!

As a lot of you will probably be aware, only the southbound tunnel is open with no security at the moment. Strangely enough for a sunday morning the only person I passed was (presumably) a council worker, who was picking up litter! Didn't notice any problems with silt though so maybe that's improved, not too much glass either.

When I returned to use the northbound tunnel, after much frustration trying to follow the very indistinct and eventually non existant signage, needless to say the gates were locked. I can't understand why there is no sign directing users to the other tunnel if this has been the case for a long time, especially given that the no entry signs are so forbidding that I buckled and cycled up to the SECC before crossing and returning to Scotstoun!

In any case, many people will just go the other way and so signage warning of conflicting traffic would be very sensible at both ends of the tunnel. I certainly proceeded happily south, watching where I was going of course but not really expecting anyone to come the other way given I had no reason to think the other tunnel was closed.

As for the intimidation factor, this is certainly there but I'm not sure there is much you can do to avoid this in a 7-800m long cycle tunnel. The best bet would probably to have police cycle through at regular intervals, but would this be too dangerous for them and what can they really do to arrest someone when they are on a bike? Alternatively, somehow encouraging user levels to the point there is a fairly constant stream of people going through would limit the appeal for neds to hang around I think.


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## Joseph (5 May 2010)

Still waiting for the response to my FOI request. I think technically they have another couple of days before it's "late"....


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## magnatom (5 May 2010)

toms87 said:


> Hi all - used the tunnel for the first time on Sunday and found the half-heartedness of the whole system pretty amazing to be honest, this got my curiosity going and I happened across this thread!
> 
> As a lot of you will probably be aware, only the southbound tunnel is open with no security at the moment. Strangely enough for a sunday morning the only person I passed was (presumably) a council worker, who was picking up litter! Didn't notice any problems with silt though so maybe that's improved, not too much glass either.
> 
> ...



Always interesting to hear the views of a new tunnel user. I agree it is currently VERY poorly signposted. Hopefully things will improve soon. If they don't I'll be back onto Marco. He responded to a second e-mail about silt very quickly (I linked to my videos). I think as he knows who I am (a pain in the a$$) he tends to actually read my e-mails.  I'll chase him up in a week or two if nothing has improved.

Joseph, you don't actually expect them to get back to you on time, do you?!!?


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## Joseph (17 May 2010)

Finally got a response. With a rather 'generous' interpretation of the rules I think it is just within the time limit! It's a reasonable wedge of paper, I'll get it scanned and uploaded within the next few days....


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## Joseph (17 May 2010)

Here we go:

http://button.heenan.me.uk/~joseph/tunnel/all.pdf

was rather a pain to scan as the redactions have been done by physically cutting chunks out of the pages, meaning it wouldn't go through the sheet feeder!

A few interesting nuggets:

The total cost of the security system and associated bits appears to be in excess of 200K.

The official position appears to be that the signs clearly indicate that if the cycle tunnel for the direction you want to go is closed, you should push your bike through the pedestrian part of the other tunnel...

I'm not sure they've really included everything that was asked for; there's very little detail on the new system. Oddly there doesn't seem to be one single risk assessment either.


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## magnatom (19 May 2010)

Thanks for that Joseph.

I've had a quick look through it. Interesting to see the number of times that Mr Bardelli apologises for not replying sooner!!

The interesting fact is that in your FOI request it doesn't mention anything about waiting for gate actuators, which are mentioned in my e-mail reply. I read it more closely when I get a chance.


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## magnatom (20 May 2010)

I saw the aftermath of another cyclist coming off due to silt build up in the tunnel this morning. He was fine if a little shaken (and mucky). It really is an 'ice rink' at the moment and the problem keeps recurring.

I phone Marco Bardelli's department this morning (he is off) to inform them. I will also write an e-mail for a 'paper trail'. This is a serious safety issue, as it wouldn't take much for it to result in a serious injury.


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## Joseph (20 May 2010)

That sounds bad :-( Glad to hear he wasn't injured.

I can't understand why they haven't at least put up warning signs.


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## magnatom (11 Aug 2010)

Joseph said:


> That sounds bad :-( Glad to hear he wasn't injured.
> 
> I can't understand why they haven't at least put up warning signs.



This week has finally seen the reopening of the north bound tunnel. I was informed it was re-opened by another cyclist, so I wentthat way last night. I have to say I am not impressed. The lane that you used to be able to cycle down is permanently closed. To get to the gate entrance, you have to bump up a very high curb and cycle over some very rough tarmac pavement. It then takes you down a thin passage (which will be shared with pedestrians) to get to the gate. 

They have also done no work at all in the tunnel since last November. There are still the remnants of a tunnel fire, probably from over a year ago (blacked out walls and rough surface). 

Oh and signage, well, lets just say there isn't any.

Mmm. Another e-mail to the council is in order.

Sorry I don't have any footage. I'm waiting for a replacement cable to arrive.


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## CharlesF (11 Aug 2010)

magnatom said:


> This week has finally seen the reopening of the north bound tunnel. I was informed it was re-opened by another cyclist, so I wentthat way last night. I have to say I am not impressed. The lane that you used to be able to cycle down is permanently closed. To get to the gate entrance, you have to bump up a very high curb and cycle over some very rough tarmac pavement. It then takes you down a thin passage (which will be shared with pedestrians) to get to the gate.
> 
> They have also done no work at all in the tunnel since last November. There are still the remnants of a tunnel fire, probably from over a year ago (blacked out walls and rough surface).
> 
> ...



Well, I will continue going via the Squinty Bridge, it is much more pleasant even tho it is 3 miles longer


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## LauraMuir (27 Sep 2010)

Hiya, I'm new to the forum

So are both tunnels now reopened both south and northbound for cycling through?


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## magnatom (27 Sep 2010)

LauraMuir said:


> Hiya, I'm new to the forum
> 
> So are both tunnels now reopened both south and northbound for cycling through?



Hi Laura,

Welcome to the forum! 

Yes both tunnels are open. The northbound tunnel is accessed via what used to be the pedestrian walkway. To get there, you need to mount the curb, cycle over some rough ground with plenty of glass on it and cycle down the uninspiring entrance to the tunnel. But it is open! 

Where do you cycle from and too?


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## rarelyused (30 Sep 2010)

LauraMuir said:


> Hiya, I'm new to the forum
> 
> So are both tunnels now reopened both south and northbound for cycling through?



Hi. I'm also new to the forum, in the sense that I've read it lots but never written anything. Well, here goes...

FYI, the last two days I've tried to get into the northbound tunnel and been told by the gate operator that it is closed...again. Today I asked him how long for, and he guessed a couple of weeks. I didn't make out his reason for the closure. They are directing people to use the southbound tunnel instead, presumably carefully


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## magnatom (1 Oct 2010)

rarelyused said:


> Hi. I'm also new to the forum, in the sense that I've read it lots but never written anything. Well, here goes...
> 
> FYI, the last two days I've tried to get into the northbound tunnel and been told by the gate operator that it is closed...again. Today I asked him how long for, and he guessed a couple of weeks. I didn't make out his reason for the closure. They are directing people to use the southbound tunnel instead, presumably carefully



Hi rarelyused! Welcome to the forum! Glad you stopped lurking! You should tell us a wee bit about yourself!

Your right and I was about to post about this tonight. The reason it is closed is due to the heavy rain the other day. The nothbound tunnel got flooded which was due to the pumping equipment failing. So they are keeping that close until it is repaired. The guy on the end of the intercom was more chatty with me! 

I really need to put a video up of the entrance to the northbound tunnel. It is very poor in my opinion!


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## rarelyused (14 Oct 2010)

After a few days holiday, back on my bike and glad to find the northbound tunnel is reopen. Also, the road works at the north end of the northbound road tunnel have been cleared, so there are no longer tailbacks on Dumbarton Road - good news all round!

magnatom - I totally agree about the state of the approach to the tunnel. At the very least a drop-kerb would be nice! Mind you, the tunnel itself is pretty dingy compared to the southbound, and they both appear to be suffering from damp, peeling paint/plaster-work at the moment.


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## magnatom (16 Oct 2010)

Indeed you are correct. Both tunnels are now open (although I've been on holiday this week). 

Yes I've noticed the peeling paint, I wondered if it was intentional, but it does seem patchy. I've never seen it do that before. Oh well, just another problem with the tunnel! 

I'm actually quite enjoyed the tailback on Dumbarton Road. More cars to sail past!


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## chunky (8 Mar 2011)

Hi,
I'd like to use the cycle paths to cycle from the Southside to where I'm working just now in Scotstoun. Are both directions still open, and are people actively using them during the day? Any trouble with neds just now?

I'd be going through around 7am in the morning and back again at 4.30pm in the afternoon, so hoping this is outside peak ned time!

Thanks,

Chunky


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## Mad Doug Biker (9 Mar 2011)

Dang! I should have checked yesterday morning, I cycled right past it at Partick going back home to D*mbarton whilst on an early morning training run round the west end on the BSO, AKA Sir Creaky Bike of the Dump (I also had my yellow Hi Vis Skyride vest on which I had forgotten all about, but I hadn't realised just how prominent the lettering is on it ).

Annyway, Magnatom would know, IF HE WAS STILL ABOUT AND NOT LURKING, hint hint. 

I might go and take a look later today. Incidentally, I have walked through the tunnel several times during the day and have never had any problems with Neds. 

Hello by the way Chunky and welcome!


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## Jim_Noir (9 Mar 2011)

It's been 7 weeks since I used the tunnel (or cycled to work!), but most people only use the north bound tunnel (both ways). As for peak ned times, they mostly just sit in a inshot drinking and are not a problem to be fair and it's not that offten you see them... and at thoese time you are using it it might just be some school kids in there. Your other option is the renfrew ferry or over the bells bridge... but the tunnel isn't as bad as you think it is ( iused to think you needed a SAS detail to get through it!)... the climb out however, that's another story


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## Mad Doug Biker (11 Apr 2011)

chunky said:


> Hi,
> I'd like to use the cycle paths to cycle from the Southside to where I'm working just now in Scotstoun. Are both directions still open, and are people actively using them during the day? Any trouble with neds just now?
> 
> I'd be going through around 7am in the morning and back again at 4.30pm in the afternoon, so hoping this is outside peak ned time!
> ...



Hello Chunky, I hope you are still here.

Anyway, I have been using the tunnel quite a few times recently, and all seems ok.
What they now have is automated gates at the entrances, and you need to press an intercom button for the gates to open. It can be quite eerie as the person controlling the gates often doesn't speak, so the gates seem to have a life of their own.

I wouldn't say the tunnel is all that bad, and I have also walked through it several times too - rarely have I never seen anyone else using the tunnel at the same time as me.

All I can say is GO FOR IT!


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