# Irresponsible Scout Leaders blocking cycle path



## captain nemo1701 (8 Jun 2017)

This took the biscuit tonight on my way home.
I have posted about the segregated cycle path on Cattle Market Road in Bristol being used as a free car park by anglers but what I encountered this evening staggered me. Parked up blocking the cycle path were:

Two cars
One minibus with trailer
20 kids in life vests
Three adults attempting to launch a makeshift raft into the water. 

We had a fatal drowning near here recently, they were illegally parked and there is no slipway or launching facility. Stupid and irresponsible in my view, so rather than create a 'scene', I reported it to the police.

Did any other Bristol cc'ers see them tonight - about 6.30pm?.


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## fossyant (8 Jun 2017)

Oh great ! They are Scouts, you trying to stop some proper fun ? Climbing, etc all have risks.

Yes they shouldn't block the cycle path, but its hardly a big inconvenience. The leaders should at least be warning people approaching and making sure there is a way through. I'd be happy to see something like that going on.


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## Drago (8 Jun 2017)

Its hardly setting a good example to the children in their care. By the time they're old enough to drive themselves they'll be subliminally conditioned to thinknits acceptable to dump their cars on any bitnof tarmac they fancy.


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## ufkacbln (8 Jun 2017)

We have the same issue with a local BMX track

They prevent families form accessing the beach and coast as vehicles empty a series of kids and BMX bikes whilst parking on the cycle track


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## captain nemo1701 (8 Jun 2017)

fossyant said:


> Oh great ! They are Scouts, you trying to stop some proper fun ? Climbing, etc all have risks.
> 
> Yes they shouldn't block the cycle path, but its hardly a big inconvenience. The leaders should at least be warning people approaching and making sure there is a way through. I'd be happy to see something like that going on.



I am not against kids having fun, but scout groups in Bristol have an arrangement with local sailing clubs to use their facilities. This, in my opinion, was wholly irresponsible as it is not a launch facility, there is no slipway. They had to get this thing over a fence, down a slope into the water. BTW, they were completely blocking the path, parked up beside double yellow lines. There are proper, safer facilities in the area for this stuff. A cycle path is not a boat yard!.


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## fossyant (8 Jun 2017)

That explains it better!


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## FishFright (8 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I am not against kids having fun, but scout groups in Bristol have an arrangement with local sailing clubs to use their facilities. This, in my opinion, was wholly irresponsible as it is not a launch facility, there is no slipway. They had to get this thing over a fence, down a slope into the water. BTW, they were completely blocking the path, parked up beside double yellow lines. There are proper, safer facilities in the area for this stuff. A cycle path is not a boat yard!.



So how did you communicate your fears to the Scout leaders concerned ? Or did you scoot home as fast as you can to get on the phone and internet while rubbing yourself with used copies of the Daily Mail ?


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## Banjo (8 Jun 2017)

Great to see 20 kids doing something like that instead of lying on their beds on playstations etc.


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## snorri (8 Jun 2017)

Sounds like there might be a volunteering opportunity going a begging there, a responsible individual required to organise training exercises in transporting awkwardly shaped things through obstacle courses


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## captain nemo1701 (8 Jun 2017)

The key here is *safe facilities.* For example, a boating lake with a slipway. I am not agianst getting kids out and being active and yes, things have risks. But this just looked amateurish and wasn't really appropriate considering the police divers a few months ago were searching this spot for someone who vanished on his way home from the Motion nightclub. As I stated before, I didn't want to create a scene, but on reflection, maybe I should have 'had a word' - I most certainly will if I encounter them again. Better scout groups would have gone to proper facilities. There was no need for them to be there.
BTW, I loathe the Daily Mail.


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## Dogtrousers (8 Jun 2017)

So you dib dib dobbed them in.

Woggle they do now?


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## winjim (8 Jun 2017)

Write to the DC.


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## Biff600 (8 Jun 2017)

What a miserable killjoy


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## Vegan1 (8 Jun 2017)

Appears to me like some much needed experience an education for a group of youngsters with respect to the near fatal drowning that you said occurred.

A bit of give and take needed me thinks, and involving the old bill - sorry but.


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## Jimidh (8 Jun 2017)

My memories of the scouts includes doing lots of daft stuff up hills, in water and playing with fires, axes and saws. 

Part of the fun was doing stuff that felt a bit dangerous even though they were were pretty well supervised by adults who knew what they were doing.

I suspect that that the adults in charge tonight knew exactly what they were doing - let's face it launch boats from a field is much more Scoutish than doing it from a boring mooring.

Phoning the police was way over the top.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (8 Jun 2017)

What do we want?
Scouts out!
When do we want it?
Once I've had time to get home, phone the Polis and post on a cycling forum...


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## Yellow Saddle (8 Jun 2017)

I'm opening a beer. Anyone else want one?


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## Tim Hall (8 Jun 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I'm opening a beer. Anyone else want one?


Gasping. And the shop over the road is shut. Good news is I've got a week off Scouts tomorrow, as I'm away riding my bike.


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## fossyant (8 Jun 2017)

Scouts is about doing stuff without the namby pamby H&S Elf that keeps appearing - they are insured.


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## cubey (8 Jun 2017)

fossyant said:


> Scouts is about doing stuff without the namby pamby H&S Elf that keeps appearing - they are insured.


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## Crankarm (8 Jun 2017)

There is only one thing for it, you'll have to call the Feds.


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## User6179 (8 Jun 2017)




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## Shaun (8 Jun 2017)

Sounds like they've been a bit inconsiderate. Did they have the name of the troop written on the side any of the vans?

As an aside, I was a keen scout for many years (before being thrown out for not drinking my beer quick enough!) and was awarded the Chief Scout's Award. I was on my way towards the Queen's Scout Award and a visit to Windsor Castle, but after landing my first job bought me and a mate a beer each, which we nipped round the back of school to drink during a break in the Gang Show practice. He swigged his quick as a flash. I was too slow and got caught red handed and kicked out.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

Jimidh said:


> My memories of the scouts includes doing lots of daft stuff up hills, in water and playing with fires, axes and saws.
> 
> Part of the fun was doing stuff that felt a bit dangerous even though they were were pretty well supervised by adults who knew what they were doing.
> 
> ...



I'm Ok with them having fun. There was lots of space for them to park on the black asphalt thing with the bright yellow lines on it. Even better, they could have found somewhere to launch a raft that didn't involve trying to get it over a fence. 





That would have saved a bit of effort. Inconvenient that fence, maybe a gap would make raft launching a bit simpler?. Darned inconsiderate, putting a fence in!. What about fun?.
Also, not only is the bank steeper than years ago, you have to navigate the culvert they put in:




Still there's plenty of fun for the kids. You can amaze them with tales of ye olde derelict post sorting office. But watch out scrambling up those banks. Funny folk who stick sharp needles into themselves lurk under the trees. Hopefully, this won't happen:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/04/girl-4-has-to-have-hiv-test-after-standing-on-dirty-needle-6616591/

For the record, I mentioned it to a friend who is a police officer and his answer was that if he'd been down there, he would have moved them on. There are better places to introduce kids to water related activities.


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## oldfatfool (9 Jun 2017)

Thank god there are people like the op to look out for us all.


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## Lonestar (9 Jun 2017)

If the cycle lane is out of order any chance of using the road?

I know,stupid idea.Sorry about that.


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## broadway (9 Jun 2017)

Jimidh said:


> My memories of the scouts includes doing lots of daft stuff up hills, in water and playing with fires, axes and saws.
> 
> Part of the fun was doing stuff that felt a bit dangerous even though they were were pretty well supervised by adults who knew what they were doing.
> 
> ...




Er, a miinute googlling told me it's the middle of Bristol, do keep up.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> If the cycle lane is out of order any chance of using the road?
> 
> I know,stupid idea.Sorry about that.



Any chance of them parking on the road?. I know, daft idea. Who'd have thought that minibuses and cars should be on a road?.
Plenty of space. What am I missing as to why they didn't do that?. I mean, it's a relatively mild inconvenience to walk an additional...oooh...5m to the fence? (that anti raft device the council put in)
Could anyone suggest why the road was inappropriate?. Can't quite put my finger on it.....





Meanwhile, here's this morning's silly parking. Obvious place to reverse fork lift trucks down a ramp...
I suppose all those cyclists could just swerve around him....


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

fossyant said:


> Scouts is about doing stuff without the namby pamby H&S Elf that keeps appearing - they are insured.


Health & safety keeps the litigation virus at bay.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

fossyant said:


> Oh great ! They are Scouts, you trying to stop some proper fun ? Climbing, etc all have risks.
> 
> Yes they shouldn't block the cycle path, but its hardly a big inconvenience. The leaders should at least be warning people approaching and making sure there is a way through. I'd be happy to see something like that going on.


I'll have to remember that the next time the police turn out with blue lights and sirens for vehicles blocking a carriageway, that it's hardly a big inconvenience and motorists should just use another road. 

I don't care who the criminal motorist is. Report it to the police. And with the worrying behaviour of launching a makeshift raft of teenagers from a dodgy location into iffy water, it was definitely worth a call. Let the police decide how to prioritise it. If you spotted it but didn't call and someone got hurt, you'd be flamed.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Gasping. And the shop over the road is shut. Good news is I've got a week off Scouts tomorrow, as I'm away riding my bike.


Sorry to waste 30 seconds of your life by forcing you at gunpoint to read my posts.......


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## Bimble (9 Jun 2017)

I think calling the police was going a bit too far (did they get back to you with details of any action taken?) - but I get the annoyance when people do selfish stuff like this. Presumably they took up the whole of the path and cycle lane and you couldn't get around them without being forced onto the road? I'd have maybe gone and found the leader and asked them to move the vehicles. Escalate from there if they are rude and refuse.


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## subaqua (9 Jun 2017)

Biff600 said:


> What a miserable killjoy



have a google for Lyme bay .

or in Bristol - Aaron Burgess and Iain Woodstock

OP was correct in not creating a scene. 

My boy is in sea scouts. fist principle is doing it sensibly and launching in correct place. 


does he do silly with axes ? damn right he doesn't its done properly . 


its all great till it goes wrong .


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

Bimble said:


> I think calling the police was going a bit too far (did they get back to you with details of any action taken?)


In my experience, it's very very rare that the police in recent years have time get back to you with details of any action taken if you're not clearly a victim. So if you report road rage or worse, you may hear back, but if you report obstructions or things you've witnessed, you'll only hear it was acted upon if you go to hear the relevant police report to a parish/community/village/town council.


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## Arjimlad (9 Jun 2017)

To undertake this activity there would have had to have been a trained leader, a detailed and thorough risk assessment, approval by the District scout authority and suchlike. My lot are going walking up a small stream next Monday which I am quite happy will be safe/controlled risk. The location of the activity @captain nemo1701 describes is surprising to me.


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## Lonestar (9 Jun 2017)

Sorry @captain nemo1701 ...not having a go but I'd probably just be on my way and leave it at that......We see it differently but living in London seems to bring out every half wit to be inconsiderate to the next person like dodgy parking or just not knowing the fact i'm there.

My original post was more tongue in cheek also.


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## mjr (9 Jun 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> To undertake this activity there would have had to *should* have been a trained leader, a detailed and thorough risk assessment, approval by the District scout authority and suchlike.


Fixed That For You - nothing actually stops an irresponsible scout leader going off half-cock before it happens, does it? If no-one like the OP reports stuff like this, they'd probably get away with it until someone gets hurt.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> To undertake this activity there would have had to have been a trained leader, a detailed and thorough risk assessment, approval by the District scout authority and suchlike. My lot are going walking up a small stream next Monday which I am quite happy will be safe/controlled risk. The location of the activity @captain nemo1701 describes is surprising to me.



It's very central Bristol and is frequented by drug users, hence my concern over discarded 'sharps' which our engineering crew reported when we were down there doing some groundwork for the new widened road/culvert. It's fenced off, which should be a hint that it's not the best spot to launch craft from. And there's always my favourite along canals:

Leptospirosis (Weils disease).

Here's a Wikipedia extract on it:

*At-risk occupations[edit]*
Occupations at risk include veterinarians, slaughterhouse workers, farmers, sailors on rivers, sewer maintenance workers, waste disposal facility workers, and people who work on derelict buildings.[24] Slaughterhouse workers can contract the disease through contact with infected blood or body fluids. _Rowers, kayakers and canoeists_ also sometimes contract the disease.[25] It was once mostly work-related but is now often also related to adventure tourism and recreational activities.[5]
(my italics)

The local rag here - Bristol Post - is always banging on about cycling on pavements. So when I use a new segregated facility, the last thing I expect to see are vehicles blocking it. OK, so I could have used the road and I did. But then again, why were they there in the first place?. It's clear that they were avoiding a parking ticket by not parking up on the double yellow lines, but then block the pavement/cycle path. Some people seem to operate on the basis of complying with one regulation by breaking another. 

Plus, they had to lift the raft over that fence, down a slope into what is, basically, filthy water (it's Feeder Canal). Not the best environment to introduce kids to water!. I felt that it was also inappropriate timing, as the police divers had been out a few weeks earlier searching that very spot for someone who went missing from the Motion Nightclub across the water (he unfortunately drowned). Further upstream there are steps down onto the canal bank for fishing and you see canoeists all the time around the canal - perhaps it would have been more appropriate and safer to enter the water from further upstream from a designated access point. The whole thing looked very amateurish and I think they just racked up and got on with it - no RA plan or anything. If you look at the area on Bing Maps streetview, you get the old layout that does have a wide grassy bank. But that's long gone now with the widened road and cycle path.

I've no problem with kids doing adventure sports etc,and yes, risk is part of the game, but needs to be reduced and controlled. Fortunately, it appears nothing went wrong.


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

Lonestar said:


> Sorry @captain nemo1701 ...not having a go but I'd probably just be on my way and leave it at that......We see it differently but living in London seems to bring out every half wit to be inconsiderate to the next person like dodgy parking or just not knowing the fact i'm there.
> 
> My original post was more tongue in cheek also.



Thank you for your apology, accepted and no hard feelings


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## oldfatfool (9 Jun 2017)

To be fair climbing over railings to launch a home made raft on what appears to be commercial wasteland water in a city center does look a bit dickish and not what I would expect of the scouts if my 11 yo Johnny was involved. The op originally did however appear more agitated about how they had parked. 

Amazed if this was risk assessed by qualified leaders, seems more like the daft crap we got up to in Venture scouts 30 years ago like sailing the river Ouse on homemade canoes towing barrels full of tents, but even back then we knew there was at least one scout group that was unable to meet in their scout hut without a qualified climber because they resided a certain height above sea level, so health and safety was taken quite seriously and to some extremes at times.


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## classic33 (9 Jun 2017)

oldfatfool said:


> To be fair climbing over railings to launch a home made raft on what appears to be commercial wasteland water in a city center does look a bit dickish and not what I would expect of the scouts if my 11 yo Johnny was involved. The op originally did however appear more agitated about how they had parked.
> 
> Amazed if this was risk assessed by qualified leaders, seems more like the daft crap we got up to in Venture scouts 30 years ago like sailing the river Ouse on homemade canoes towing barrels full of tents, *but even back then we knew there was at least one scout group that was unable to meet in their scout hut without a qualified climber because they resided a certain height above sea level,* so health and safety was taken quite seriously and to some extremes at times.


Wonder if that was just a myth. I knew two with similar tales.


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## classic33 (9 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Any chance of them parking on the road?. I know, daft idea. Who'd have thought that minibuses and cars should be on a road?.
> Plenty of space. What am I missing as to why they didn't do that?. I mean, it's a relatively mild inconvenience to walk an additional...oooh...5m to the fence? (that anti raft device the council put in)
> Could anyone suggest why the road was inappropriate?. Can't quite put my finger on it.....
> View attachment 356258
> ...


What about the signs placed so that they obstruct the view at the junction?


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## captain nemo1701 (9 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> What about the signs placed so that they obstruct the view at the junction?


They sometimes aren't there. I just thought that this guy was being daft by reversing fork lift trucks practically into the path of cyclists. No warning signs plus he should have had a banksman. In our firm, we've been told by the Very Big Cheese that things like this won't be tolerated.


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## jefmcg (9 Jun 2017)

FishFright said:


> So how did you communicate your fears to the Scout leaders concerned ?


How do you think that would have gone? 

"Sorry kids, outing is cancelled. I thought we were doing was perfectly safe, but now this stranger on a bicycle has had a word, I realise it's very dangerous. Let's all go back to the scout hall and play scrabble**. Please make sure you let your parents know that if it wasn't for this strangers intervention I would have put your lives at risk."

@captain nemo1701, if you genuinely believe that the kids were in danger, you did absolutely the right thing. A mistake near water can quickly turn very bad indeed.

**yeah, I don't know a lot about scout activities.


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## DRM (9 Jun 2017)

I must admit having looked at what the OP posted, I think it's not about being a killjoy, there can't have done risk assessment, and I wonder if the district commisioner had been informed about the activity, as stated in the Scout Associations Policy, organisation & rules, I for one would not have had any of my lot clambering over roadside fences, on to a steep banking, frequented by druggies,with a home made raft, into dubious water, just the thought of the accident form you have to fill in would be enough to make me think twice, there are surely better & safer places for such an activity to take place.


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## fossyant (9 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> I'll have to remember that the next time the police turn out with blue lights and sirens for vehicles blocking a carriageway, that it's hardly a big inconvenience and motorists should just use another road.
> 
> I don't care who the criminal motorist is. Report it to the police. And with the worrying behaviour of launching a makeshift raft of teenagers from a dodgy location into iffy water, it was definitely worth a call. Let the police decide how to prioritise it. If you spotted it but didn't call and someone got hurt, you'd be flamed.



If you read the next post by the OP, he left out quite a few details which I then agreed with. Read a couple of posts on next time !


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## Bazzer (9 Jun 2017)

Blocking the cycle path is annoying, but given the number of tools on the road, probably something most cyclists and certainly most commuters encounter on a regular basis. - Admittedly not a good example to the youngsters, but I'm not sure I'd get worked up about it. For example the two dickheads who on the way home tonight almost hit me by filter lane jumping, caused me more aggravation.
However the water does cause me more concern. As someone who regularly deals with youngsters from aged 7 and upwards in water and takes them into open water, from the description provided what was taking place sounds irresponsible. There is a golden rule, don't get in unless you can safely get out. I am not familiar with the area, but from the limited information provided, I am not sure I would even consider entering the water there with my youngsters in open water snorkelling gear. Boat or not, if someone goes in the water you have to be able to get them out if they cannot manage it, or they are putting themselves (and you) in danger.
Wearing a life jacket doesn't save you. Firstly you need to know how to use it and then be able, either to get out of the water, or the person rescuing you to get both you and themselves out of the water.
It's not being a killjoy. Water can be enjoyed in the same way as other environments, but it can quickly become a killer. Cold and its effects on the body, quite apart from drowning can happen very quickly.
Personally I'd have been inclined to try to get the name of the troupe and report the matter to the local scout commissioner. If a full risk assessment had been carried out, no harm done. But if it hadn't it might save a child's life in future.


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## snorri (9 Jun 2017)

fossyant said:


> Read a couple of posts on next time !


It's unfortunate that pertinent details had been omitted in the OP.


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## Arjimlad (13 Jun 2017)

@captain nemo1701 saw this and thought of you..my cubs activity last night.. the rope swing wasn't built to take Akela!


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## Drago (13 Jun 2017)

Motorists. Cycle paths are for cyclists, not cars. The clue is in the name "cycle" path. It is not a car path.

It matters not if you're a scout leader, Peter Duncan, or Baden-Powell himself , there is no lawful or moral justification for putting a car on a cycle path. Do not do it!

Right, email that to the scouts and lock the thread.


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## winjim (13 Jun 2017)

Might be worth teasing them for a bit. Ask if any of the Scouts have their cycling badge.


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## KnackeredBike (13 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Motorists. Cycle paths are for cyclists, not cars. The clue is in the name "cycle" path. It is not a car path.
> 
> It matters not if you're a scout leader, Peter Duncan, or Baden-Powell himself , there is no lawful or moral justification for putting a car on a cycle path. Do not do it!
> 
> Right, email that to the scouts and lock the thread.


Police do not give a toss so people do what they like. There were four or five traveller caravans blocking a busy segregated cycle path (so no way around) for days and police did sod all.

Bet if they'd done the same on a quiet road the police would head straight down.


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## classic33 (13 Jun 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> @captain nemo1701 saw this and thought of you..my cubs activity last night.. the rope swing wasn't built to take Akela!
> View attachment 356950


What gave, branch or rope, and was the water deep enough for you?


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## jefmcg (13 Jun 2017)

Back to the original posting



captain nemo1701 said:


> This took the biscuit tonight on my way home.
> I have posted about the segregated cycle path on Cattle Market Road in Bristol being used as a free car park by anglers but what I encountered this evening staggered me. Parked up blocking the cycle path were:
> 
> Two cars
> ...


There are two vastly different accusations here. One is blocking a cycle path and the other is putting children's lives in danger.

Do you really believe they were in danger? If so, why do you even mention the parking? That would be like citing the London Bridge attackers for parking on the pavement.

If not, then don't accuse people of endangering children if you don't believe it's true.


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## Arjimlad (13 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> What gave, branch or rope, and was the water deep enough for you?



I slipped off the bank before standing up on the rope !
Now have a nice bruise on my bum. Gave everyone a good laugh and my hat was retrieved for various cubs to wear to cool them down


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## mjr (13 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> There are two vastly different accusations here. One is blocking a cycle path and the other is putting children's lives in danger.


Oh right, so every child capable of cycling along a cycle path is quite safe pulling out blind into oncoming traffic on a carriageway to avoid someone who parked like a twit?  I know it's not what you meant, but I'd say one is passively putting children's lives in danger and the other is actively putting children's lives in danger.


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## captain nemo1701 (14 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Oh right, so every child capable of cycling along a cycle path is quite safe pulling out blind into oncoming traffic on a carriageway to avoid someone who parked like a twit?  I know it's not what you meant, but I'd say one is passively putting children's lives in danger and the other is actively putting children's lives in danger.



They clearly didn't want a fine by parking on double yellow lines, but decided to oddly break the law by driving onto and blocking the segregated cycle path & pavement. The fence should have been a clue that this is not a suitable launch spot for a raft. they made it harder for themselves by lifting it over. There is also a No Swimming sign there, albeit faded.

I believe there was a health risk to the children since discarded sharps have been found there in the past. It's not the best spot to go rafting from, really. Worth noting that they may be people who complain about cycling on pavements, risk to children/elderly people etc. But when it comes down to parking a vehicle........ This is exactly the same as that lazy man I saw driving onto the pavement outside our local shop to avoid the double yellow lines. He clearly couldn't be bothered to walk 50 yards from single yellow lines that permit temporary parking. No sir, just dump it on the pavement!.

If i'm ever done by the police for cycling where I shouldn't, perhaps I can get away with it by using the 'I'm having a bit of fun' excuse?.


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## nickyboy (14 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> They clearly didn't want a fine by parking on double yellow lines, but decided to oddly break the law by driving onto and blocking the segregated cycle path & pavement. The fence should have been a clue that this is not a suitable launch spot for a raft. they made it harder for themselves by lifting it over. There is also a No Swimming sign there, albeit faded.
> 
> I believe there was a health risk to the children since discarded sharps have been found there in the past. It's not the best spot to go rafting from, really. Worth noting that they may be people who complain about cycling on pavements, risk to children/elderly people etc. But when it comes down to parking a vehicle........ This is exactly the same as that lazy man I saw driving onto the pavement outside our local shop to avoid the double yellow lines. He clearly couldn't be bothered to walk 50 yards from single yellow lines that permit temporary parking. No sir, just dump it on the pavement!.
> 
> If i'm ever done by the police for cycling where I shouldn't, perhaps I can get away with it by using the 'I'm having a bit of fun' excuse?.



I'm still a bit confused

You called the police. Was that to inform them of illegal parking or dodgy water activities?

If it was for dodgy water activities it sounds like you have some specific knowledge of the site that the scouts may not have been aware of. Why not, in those circumstances, let the scout leader know at the time, rather than informing the police? By then the scouts had already been exposed to the risks

If you called the police to inform them of illegal parking why are you turning this into a H&S issue?


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## Drago (14 Jun 2017)

I'm not familiar with the area, but in most parts of the country parking enforcement has been deregulated and the powers devolved to the local authority. In those places there will be a memorandum of understanding between the L.A. and the dibble defining the boundaries of the enforcement activities, and from my own experience its almost certain that the L.A. and not the Feds will own a cycle path for enforcement purposes.

Of course, enforcement is for too much like hard work for an L.A. so they farm it out to private companies, who almost never deviate from the town centres because that's where the lolly is made. 
The private companies won't care less, and the L.A. themselves won't have a non profit making parking warden of their own to hit areas that don't get coverage.

You can thank Tony Bliar for that little mess.


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## mjr (14 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> You can thank Tony Bliar for that little mess.


And, to be fair, all subsequent PMs and SoS's for Local Government (Brown, Cameron, May, Prescott, David Miliband, Kelly, Blears, Denham, Pickles, Clark, Javid) for letting it fester, as well as your local county/unitary councillors and mayors for under-managing the wardens.


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## jefmcg (14 Jun 2017)

nickyboy said:


> I'm still a bit confused
> 
> You called the police. Was that to inform them of illegal parking or dodgy water activities?
> 
> ...


<tap tap tap > is this thing on?


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## Drago (14 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> And, to be fair, all subsequent PMs and SoS's for Local Government (Brown, Cameron, May, Prescott, David Miliband, Kelly, Blears, Denham, Pickles, Clark, Javid) for letting it fester, as well as your local county/unitary councillors and mayors for under-managing the wardens.



Yep, my favourite people - politicians.


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## ufkacbln (14 Jun 2017)

Just ask how their actions demonstrate their respect for the Scout Promise, in particular their breach of items 3 and 7 of the Scout Law


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## Tim Hall (14 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Motorists. Cycle paths are for cyclists, not cars. The clue is in the name "cycle" path. It is not a car path.
> 
> It matters not if you're a scout leader, Peter Duncan, or Baden-Powell himself , there is no lawful or moral justification for putting a car on a cycle path. Do not do it!
> 
> Right, email that to the scouts and lock the thread.


It's not Peter Duncan anymore, it's Bear Grylls. <Rrrrrraaaaawwwww>

(I was talking to a bloke, Royal Armoured Corps, who'd been on some kind of escape and evasion course with Mr. Grylls. Apparently he had innovative places to hide Mars bars. Or one place anyway.)


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## Tim Hall (14 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4843805, member: 259"]In the minibar in his hotel room?[/QUOTE]
I think that was the second choice.


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## Drago (14 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> It's not Peter Duncan anymore, it's Bear Grylls. <Rrrrrraaaaawwwww>
> 
> (I was talking to a bloke, Royal Armoured Corps, who'd been on some kind of escape and evasion course with Mr. Grylls. Apparently he had innovative places to hide Mars bars. Or one place anyway.)



The military family is a small place. Everyone knows everyone, or knows someone who does. The word I get back is that he's a nobber, whereas Peter Duncan was in Flash Gordon, and is therefore cool as.


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## classic33 (14 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> The military family is a small place. Everyone knows everyone, or knows someone who does. The word I get back is that he's a nobber, whereas Peter Duncan was in Flash Gordon, and is therefore cool as.


He went down with food poisoning whilst camping, scout camp, did Mr. Grylls.


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## captain nemo1701 (15 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> <tap tap tap > is this thing on?


I called the fuzz as it's clearly a traffic offence. Many cyclists get berated and fined for riding on pavements. This is clearly a pavement, not a car park or raft launching facility. They didn't want to get a fine for parking on the double yellows but seemed oblivious to the laws governing pavements. usually in these cases i find that people's personal convenience over-rides anything else. Sorry, but what applies to cyclist applies to motorist too.

Is it too much to ask that as a cyclist on a segregated cycle path I shouldn't have to deal with objects that shouldn't be on the cyclepath?.
BTW, here's a lovely raft-launching facility I found in London. Nice and wide, plenty of room for parking the minibus & trailer


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## Drago (15 Jun 2017)

There is a 25 metre prosecution limit before the CPS will run driving other than on a highway through court. In addition, you need a witness or CCTV who save the vehicle being driven - it could be 50 miles from the nearest road and quite obviously not air dropped into position, bit you still need a human or technical witness to prosecute. With the aforementioned stripping of parking powers from the police, they're pretty much stuffed whennit comes to doing anything about it.

I agree wholeheartedly - designated cycle facilities are just that, no convenient car parks.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4843613, member: 259"]I never liked the look of the scouts when I was a kid - it was that weird uniform mainly - but this thread is starting to convince me they were really a bunch of lawbreaking, swashbuckling risk-takers and I'd probably have fitted in very well.[/QUOTE]
I was all fired up to join the cubs but I was ill or something, and missed the meeting or whatever. Anyway childhood tribalism being what it is I immediately joined the "Scouts are rubbish" tribe, so when the next opportunity came around I spurned it. I could now be the successful holder of loads of badges, and have useful old lady helping skills. Instead I just turned out to be a failure. Our lives are built on such little things.


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## captain nemo1701 (15 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> The military family is a small place. Everyone knows everyone, or knows someone who does. The word I get back is that he's a nobber, whereas Peter Duncan was in Flash Gordon, and is therefore cool as.



It was a minor role and as I recall, he died. He was in The Exiles, season 2 episode of Space 1999.


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## Drago (15 Jun 2017)

But he died like a man, demanding that Timothy Dalton do him with the sword so he wouldn't suffer a hideous death with the poison.


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## Dogtrousers (15 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> (I was talking to a bloke, Royal Armoured Corps, who'd been on some kind of escape and evasion course with Mr. Grylls. Apparently he had innovative places to hide Mars bars. Or one place anyway.)


Let me guess, it's Bear Grylls so ... In the minibar of your 5 star hotel room? Hidden inside the complimentary basket of fruit?


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## Drago (15 Jun 2017)

I though he meant behind his ego.


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## nickyboy (15 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I called the fuzz as it's clearly a traffic offence. Many cyclists get berated and fined for riding on pavements. This is clearly a pavement, not a car park or raft launching facility. They didn't want to get a fine for parking on the double yellows but seemed oblivious to the laws governing pavements. usually in these cases i find that people's personal convenience over-rides anything else. Sorry, but what applies to cyclist applies to motorist too.
> 
> Is it too much to ask that as a cyclist on a segregated cycle path I shouldn't have to deal with objects that shouldn't be on the cyclepath?.
> BTW, here's a lovely raft-launching facility I found in London. Nice and wide, plenty of room for parking the minibus & trailer
> View attachment 357211



Given that it was a voluntary organisation trying to give some nice experience to youngsters I would be very much inclined to cut them some slack and forget about it

But Rules Are Rules, hey? Thin end of the wedge and all that....


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## Drago (15 Jun 2017)

Exactly. Let them get away with that today, tomorrow they'll be invading Poland. That's how these things start.


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## MrGrumpy (17 Jun 2017)

Cannot believe what I'm reading on here , is it a joke post  . Seriously !!!


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## ufkacbln (17 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> Exactly. Let them get away with that today, tomorrow they'll be invading Poland. That's how these things start.


They do wear brown shirts!


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## NorthernDave (17 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> But he died like a man, demanding that Timothy Dalton do him with the sword so he wouldn't suffer a hideous death with the poison.



Exactly - not only was he in Flash Gordon, but he got the second worst James Bond to do him in. Legend.


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## Drago (17 Jun 2017)

And he nearly made it across the Irish Sea in a VW Beetle. He'd kick Bear Grylls arriss any day. He's so manly I feel proud to have the male chromosomes.

Going back to the cycle path blockers, it would surprise me not if their day jobs are making the foul new Lucozade orange.


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## ufkacbln (17 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> The military family is a small place. Everyone knows everyone, or knows someone who does. The word I get back is that he's a nobber, whereas Peter Duncan was in Flash Gordon, and is therefore cool as.



You should see the appearance fees he charges for performing his function as Chief Scout!


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## Drago (17 Jun 2017)

Cunobelin said:


> You should see the appearance fees he charges for performing his function as Chief Scout!



He charges money to go for a dump wearing a scout uniform?


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## ufkacbln (17 Jun 2017)

Colleagues of mine wanted him to open their new headquarters, his fee was several thousand pounds


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## ufkacbln (17 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4846864, member: 259"]Blimey. In his role as a scout or as a private person?[/QUOTE]

Former


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## mjr (19 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> There is a 25 metre prosecution limit before the CPS will run driving other than on a highway through court. In addition, you need a witness or CCTV who save the vehicle being driven - it could be 50 miles from the nearest road and quite obviously not air dropped into position, bit you still need a human or technical witness to prosecute.


Is there really no way to deal with this sort of shoot? Isn't it highway obstruction? Again, I don't see arguing there are other lanes as a good excuse because the police turn up fairly soon when someone leaves a vehicle blocking one carriageway lane of a non-clearway section of A10, despite there being other lanes people can use... but block a cycle track or lane and suddenly there's tons of reasons not to act.


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## subaqua (19 Jun 2017)

[QUOTE 4846864, member: 259"]Blimey. In his role as a scout or as a private person?[/QUOTE]

its not him you are paying. its the scout association.

he turned up at a tuff mudder for the scouts last year unnanounced and was a thoroughly decent down to earth bloke.


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## captain nemo1701 (19 Jun 2017)

mjr said:


> Is there really no way to deal with this sort of shoot? Isn't it highway obstruction? Again, I don't see arguing there are other lanes as a good excuse because the police turn up fairly soon when someone leaves a vehicle blocking one carriageway lane of a non-clearway section of A10, despite there being other lanes people can use... but block a cycle track or lane and suddenly there's tons of reasons not to act.



Well said. I get berated for moaning about cars and a mini bus blocking a segregated cycle lane (apparently 'kids having fun' can be used as a universal excuse). I'll bet as soon as I cycle on the pavement, I'll get nicked. Rules for some, other rules for others, eh?.


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## jefmcg (19 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> Well said. I get berated for moaning about cars and a mini bus blocking a segregated cycle lane (apparently 'kids having fun' can be used as a universal excuse). I'll bet as soon as I cycle on the pavement, I'll get nicked. Rules for some, other rules for others, eh?.


what number did you call?

(and no, you almost certainly won't get nicked for riding on the pavement)


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## captain nemo1701 (19 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> what number did you call?
> 
> (and no, you almost certainly won't get nicked for riding on the pavement)


101.
Our local rag like to demonsie cyclist for riding on the pavements. So I don't. I just expect that segregated cycling facilities are not used as a free car park, possibly by people who moan about cyclists on pavements.


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## jefmcg (19 Jun 2017)

Well, it would be great if your local police have the resources to attending parking incidents in the evening. I betting they don't. I bet they respond to cyclist-on-the-pavement calls after 5pm (and probably before) either.

My local police took several minutes to pick up 999 calls on on Sunday evening recently, and an hour to attend an emergency. In these times of cutbacks, police have more important things to attend to.


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## mjr (19 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> Well, it would be great if your local police have the resources to attending parking incidents in the evening.


It's highway obstruction, not a farking "parking incident". Please stop being the irresponsible motorists' friend.



jefmcg said:


> I bet they respond to cyclist-on-the-pavement calls after 5pm (and probably before) either.


I'd bet they respond to cyclist-on-the-pavement calls after 5pm in the similar way they respond to people turning up at evening meetings to complain about largely fictional cyclists on pavements - by holding a crackdown on an unrelated group of cyclists at a different time in a different area and quite possibly where cycling is permitted. One of my colleagues walked an officer to the end of a street through the pedestrian zone to show them that the previous "no vehicles" sign had been replaced by "no motor vehicles" before they agreed not to issue a fine!


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## jefmcg (19 Jun 2017)

OK. 

But my local police don't have the resources to respond when the "obstruction on the road" is a person with a head injury, and 10 members of the public are directing traffic to prevent south west London being gridlocked, then I'm guessing Swindon don't have the resources for an obstruction that can easily be got around on the adjacent roadway. 

That doesn't mean it's ok, but literally thousands of things that are not ok do not get police attention because there is more important things going on.

Edit: and if Swindon police do have the resources, then can we move some money from them to the Met?


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## mjr (19 Jun 2017)

jefmcg said:


> That doesn't mean it's ok, but literally thousands of things that are not ok do not get police attention because there is more important things going on.


Of course, but that doesn't explain the priority given to minor crimes committed by cyclists. Those get police attention and well-publicised crackdowns (such as cycling on footways) while crimes committed that disadvantage cyclists (such as parking blocking cycle tracks and lanes - in the case of cycle tracks, also hindering people in wheelchairs, mobility scooters and so on) rarely do.

And as mentioned, a traffic car turns up reasonably promptly in most places where the obstruction in the carriageway can easily be got around using the adjacent roadway. Sorry you had an exception.



jefmcg said:


> Edit: and if Swindon police do have the resources, then can we move some money from them to the Met?


Get the Met to put their council tax up if they need more money. There looks like enough expensive houses in London to fund it.


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## classic33 (20 Jun 2017)

subaqua said:


> its not him you are paying. its the scout association.
> 
> he turned up at a tuff mudder for the scouts last year unnanounced and was a thoroughly decent down to earth bloke.


It was himself that got the money. Scout Association aren't too keen on his abuse of the posistion of Chief Scout, doing this.

I've met Garth Morrison, a previous Chief Scout, a few times. Whilst he was Chief Scout.


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## Tim Hall (20 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> It was himself that got the money. Scout Association aren't too keen on his abuse of the posistion of Chief Scout, doing this.


Ooh, that's interesting. Got a link?


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## Drago (20 Jun 2017)

So they're not happy with Bare Grill?


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## subaqua (20 Jun 2017)

Drago said:


> So they're not happy with Bare Grill?




throw another shrimp on then blue


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## classic33 (20 Jun 2017)

Tim Hall said:


> Ooh, that's interesting. Got a link?


https://theknifepoint.me/category/uncategorized/page/11/

Not the one seen, gerber seem to be missing the page.


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## Tim Hall (20 Jun 2017)

classic33 said:


> https://theknifepoint.me/category/uncategorized/page/11/
> 
> Not the one seen, gerber seem to be missing the page.


The article there seems only to talk about profits from flogging his branded knives, nothing about appearance fees.


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## Andy_R (20 Jun 2017)

Ferkin ell....7 pages about a non incident....


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## Arjimlad (20 Jun 2017)

Will this thread ever die? Each time I open the commuting section there it is, right at the top!


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## Dirk (21 Jun 2017)

Arjimlad said:


> Will this thread ever die? Each time I open the commuting section there it is, right at the top!


Strange that. Everytime I reply to a thread, it seems to go to the top as well.


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## captain nemo1701 (21 Jun 2017)

Dirk said:


> Strange that. Everytime I reply to a thread, it seems to go to the top as well.


I'm the OP and even I'm bored with it now.

Would you like me to invoke Godwins Law?.


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## Shaun (21 Jun 2017)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I'm the OP and even I'm bored with it now.


Would you like me to oblige with a little golden padlock?


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## Tanis8472 (21 Jun 2017)

Get the Gestapo to come and sort them out


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## Shaun (21 Jun 2017)




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