# Saddle height question (and random ride ramblings)



## lulubel (11 Oct 2012)

I finally managed to get out on the MTB yesterday after 2 weeks of feeling run down with what passes for flu in this part of Spain.

I was working on my attack position before my lay off, so I decided further progress with that would require a lower saddle. I'd changed the saddle at the weekend, from the wide, squishy thing that was on the bike to my preferred SDG Allure that my OH says looks like a razor blade if she's ever seen one, and I was hoping that would make moving about easier. It did.

I left the saddle at full road height until I was at the top of the first climb. After that, it's "undulating" (some flat bits, some sloping bits, some steep bits) until you head back down via a choice of 3 different routes. I then lowered the saddle by about a inch to see how I got on. It was good on the downhill bits. The narrower saddle makes it easier to get my weight back, but having it lower as well put it further out of the way. The problem I had was a total loss of power on the uphill and flat sections, and my right knee started to hurt after about 15 minutes. I put the saddle back up, and normal service (and no knee pain) resumed.

I decided to practice leaning the bike in turns without leaning myself, which is totally alien to me with my road background, and led to a few hairy moments. I still have to break down "attack position" into its component parts, so adding weighting my outside leg, leaning the bike, keeping my body upright, and looking where I was going ended up with too much thinking and not enough speed on several occasions. But I'll get there, and on the one occasion when I actually got it right, it felt good.

My default braking position is 2 fingers on the brake levers, but I moved my hands further out and tried one finger for a while, which felt great, and the improvement in control from having one extra finger on each hand wrapped round the bars was amazing. I had to go back to 2 finger braking for proper descending because I couldn't slow down otherwise, but I'm really looking forward to easy braking when I get my new bike.

Anyway .... saddle height. At the moment, I think I'll have to keep it high unless I'm going to be descending for a while, but I think a dropper seat post might be a good idea for the future.

What does everyone else do?


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## Cubist (11 Oct 2012)

Here are my thoughts. Other opinions are available!

In order to get the most from a decent trail you need to have the seat down in some places and up in others. I have ridden gnarrly stuff on an XC bike with the seatpost all the way up to road position, and let me tell you that there have been a number of occasions where the saddle/clockweight interface has resulted in a swearword inventing session. You can get all the way out of the saddle, and can swing your weight around fore and aft, and occasionally the saddle helps as a point of grip for the thighs, but it's always there, threatening. 

Like you I've tried lowering it, but as soon as you need to climb or pedal you need it back at full height. If you ride flat, fire road style MTB that's no problem, it can stay at full height, or just below it. However, if you want a really full-on downhill ride, it's much better out of the way, and on steep techy stuff I always put it right down. 

On club rides a couple of riders criticised the fact Cubester and I were always fiddling with the seat height, but I watched one of them go OTB because the saddle smacked his arse for him on a rocky descent, and the other was a knob anyway, so his opinion was of no consequence in any case. 

The first time I rode with a dropper I couldn't believe how many times I used the function. In fact I thought I was over using it because of the novelty, but each time I ride now I note that it's the same. 

It really, really comes into its own on undulating terrain. When we rode the Marin Trail Cubester moaned like hell after one section, because it rollercoastered so much. He couldn't get his post into a position which was ideal for him. The Reverb however had done exactly what it was meant to do. 

So. If your riding has a series of long climbs where you'll ride full post, followed by kilometre after kilometre of descent where you'll want it slammed, then the time spent adjusting seat height will mean a dropper is a luxury, rather than a necessity. If it undulates, changing frequently enough to adjust your seat height every few hundred yards or so, then if you can afford one, get one. 

As for type? Giant do their own brand which is highly thought of. KinderShock have several models, the i900 and now the Lev being the most common. Crank Bros have brought out the Kronolog, which looks great but has huge questions around reliability. Fox have brought out the DOSS, which is about £400, but the market leader at the moment is Rockshox Reverb. You can get them from Germany for about £175, and if you go for it make sure your deal includes the bleedkit, which is another 40E or so if bought separately. Look for the 2012 model, and you have choices between 100mm and 125mm travel, 380mm overall length to 420mm, and the remote lever with its matchmaker clamp fits on the left or right side of the bars. 

The lever itself is silly expensive to replace, and is suspected to be a bit fragile, so many riders buy a right hand lever and run it upside down on the left.


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## billflat12 (11 Oct 2012)

It,s a judgement call , I prefer to just ride rather than faff around with seat adjustments, keep mine midway & carry my speed best i can , get out the seat occasionally on the odd climb , been stuck behind my seat on steep descents though " hovering "over a rear tyre on steep drop offs can be unnerving , sometimes suffer with my knees climbing but blame it on horse riding-rugby-job etc. ( & to mean to pay for any downhill uplifts )
I like to have my brake levers adjusted up & more inboard for 1 finger use, Just be clear though with heavy braking your weight will be thrown forward with greater force going down,.


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## 02GF74 (12 Oct 2012)

I never go the point of ;lowering saddle for descent since the technigue is to move back off the saddle when doing a steep decent.

here is a photo of me (yeah right!)


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## lulubel (13 Oct 2012)

I'm definitely going to get a dropper seat post. It sounds like it will make a massive difference to my rides. Until the other day, I'd just been riding with it full height all the time, and there are occasions when I'd like to get lower and can't because the saddle's in the way. I'll probably notice it more on the new bike because the bars will be lower than the bike I've been riding recently (my OH's) due to the shorter head tube.

Since I've just bought a new bike, I'll probably have to smuggle it in as part of an order with some other bits and pieces, then put it on the new bike, and if my beloved notices, I can tell her it came with the bike 

On another note, I've just been watching some YouTube videos of people riding the red route at Cannock Chase (now I want a helmet cam so I can make my own videos!), and I think I must be missing something. I know video can be very deceptive, but it looks like a "pleasant Sunday afternoon pootle" along a narrow trail through some woods. I know you can ride it at whatever speed you want, and I can see how it would be fun to ride it as fast as you can without falling off on the turns or hitting a tree, and those rolling up and down bits (don't know what they're called) look like they could go wrong if you're trying to go fast and misjudge it. There's a bit that goes between 2 trees and then steep down over what look like "artificially positioned tree roots" that's quite similar to a bit on one of my rides where you leave the trail to cross over to another one (except on mine the tree roots are at an angle and there are loose rocks as well) but it kind of left me thinking, "Is that it?" Is it designed to be easy enough to ride slowly, and the challenge - the fun part - is in riding it as fast as you can?


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## Motozulu (13 Oct 2012)

A bit disengenous TBH - watching youtube of anything can never really convey the reality - and saying it's just about how fast you ride it otherwise it's a pootle...well yes..is'nt that a bit obvious? Sorry if I appear a bit naive here and perhaps you're going down the side of Spanish mountains whilst posting on here with one hand and adjusting your forks with another but.....I'd never denigrate someone else's ride without doing it first..especially after only watching it on youtube?.
Since starting out I've noticed a little bit of snobbery amongst the MTB illuminati concerning trail centres, that's fine - don't do 'em then.
We all start somewhere and if you don't happen to live half way up a mountain in the Pyrenees and live 2 miles from a trail centre...well, horses fer courses..innit? 

Just my twopennorth worth, loike.


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## GrumpyGregry (13 Oct 2012)

If you come from a road background you knees will simply protest if you run your saddle low and do any real pedalling. Maybe it is my body form but with my saddle set full height and me right off the back my saddle is trying to bust my sternum and occupy my thorax so I've no idea how anyone goes down properly steep stuff without dropping the seat.

Dropper post is the way to go. I've a Gravity dropper on the HT (27.2 seat tube limits options) and will have a reverb on the FS once I get around to fitting it.

cornering, weighting the outside leg, lots of the top boys and girls don't do it, they either pedal neutral (flat 15:00 & 21:00) or weight their chocolate foot. Depends on what you've grown up with and what feels natural. Oddly, I weight the outside on the road but neutral it off road.


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## lulubel (13 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> A bit disengenous TBH - watching youtube of anything can never really convey the reality - and saying it's just about how fast you ride it otherwise it's a pootle...well yes..is'nt that a bit obvious? Sorry if I appear a bit naive here and perhaps you're going down the side of Spanish mountains whilst posting on here with one hand and adjusting your forks with another but.....I'd never denigrate someone else's ride without doing it first..especially after only watching it on youtube?.
> Since starting out I've noticed a little bit of snobbery amongst the MTB illuminati concerning trail centres, that's fine - don't do 'em then.
> We all start somewhere and if you don't happen to live half way up a mountain in the Pyrenees and live 2 miles from a trail centre...well, horses fer courses..innit?


 
You're certainly coming across as over-sensitive, which maybe you wouldn't be if you'd seen more of my posts over the last 2 or 3 months that I've been getting into MTBing. I don't want to put anyone down because they ride at trail centres, regardless of whether that's the only option for them or not. I've posted before that I think access to a trail centre would be a really good thing for me because I could learn in a "safe" environment, where the route colour coding would let me know the kind of difficulty levels I'd be encountering, rather than just having to "wing it" out on the natural trails, and usually ending up falling off.

It wasn't obvious to me before I watched the videos that it's all about how fast you ride. I thought there'd be more technical stuff - artificial rock sections, for example - like in the olympic MTB course, but obviously appropriate for the difficulty level of the course. I was disappointed because I had guessed, from things people have posted on forums, that red routes were probably equivalent to a lot of the stuff I ride, and I was hoping to pick up some technique from watching the videos.

At the same time, I was also quite relieved to find that the trails I ride on are actually quite difficult, and the reason I fall off a lot is probably not because I'm cr@p, but because I'm a beginner on a really poor quality bike, trying to ride stuff that's above my level of ability.

Yes, we all have to start somewhere. I'm unlucky enough that I've had to start with mountains. But I also understand that I'm very lucky because, once I've got more experience, I can really get the most out of those mountains.

And I don't live anywhere near the Pyrenees. I live at the opposite end of the country.


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## lulubel (13 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> If you come from a road background you knees will simply protest if you run your saddle low and do any real pedalling. Maybe it is my body form but with my saddle set full height and me right off the back my saddle is trying to bust my sternum and occupy my thorax so I've no idea how anyone goes down properly steep stuff without dropping the seat.


 
Someone will probably tell you your legs are too bent - or too short  - but I know exactly where you're coming from. Although I think being hit in the stomach by the saddle is probably preferable to being whacked on the backside by it and sent flying over the bars. (I'm yet to try either, and really hope I can get my dropper post before I do!)



GregCollins said:


> cornering, weighting the outside leg, lots of the top boys and girls don't do it, they either pedal neutral (flat 15:00 & 21:00) or weight their chocolate foot. Depends on what you've grown up with and what feels natural. Oddly, I weight the outside on the road but neutral it off road.


 
I naturally weight the outside on the road bike (after a particularly scary incident years ago on a Post Office bike, when I caught the inside pedal on the tarmac on a roundabout), but I haven't really got any technique for cornering on the MTB yet. I'm still nervously trying to find the point where the front wheel lets go, so I can avoid it in future, and looking for the best way to maintain grip for as long as possible.


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## Motozulu (13 Oct 2012)

Over sensitive? not in the slightest. Do the youtube videos cover every inch of the monkey and dog? doubt it somehow so my point was it's difficult to judge until you've actually ridden a trail - if that's over sensitive then that's what I am then  I am sure the Cannock red routes are very easy to the more hardcore. I know at the level I am at they are certainly a challenge but fun too - I guess that's what it's all about - we are all at different levels, are'nt we?
The Pyrenees was just an example - I could have said the Alps or the Rockies. You certainly come across as over sensitive about geography. 

Edit - in case you don't 'get' me I am a bit dry - I do understand why some feel trail centres are too 'homogenized' what you do on unmarked trails and natural landscape is pretty impressive - i just have'nt got that terrain local to me.


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## Motozulu (13 Oct 2012)

Cornering - one of my more experienced mates told me to put my inside knee into the corner a la motorbiking - must admit it's worked for me so far.


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## lulubel (13 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> I know video can be very deceptive


 


Motozulu said:


> Do the youtube videos cover every inch of the monkey and dog?


 
As I said, video can be deceptive. That's why I asked the question.

And I can't believe I'm being called hardcore. I'm just someone who does her best to ride the local trails, falls off a lot, and wishes she had some easier stuff to practice on.


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## lulubel (13 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Cornering - one of my more experienced mates told me to put my inside knee into the corner a la motorbiking - must admit it's worked for me so far.


 
I've been told that too. And I've also been told you _shouldn't_ do that, but should keep your inside knee tucked in close to the bike. That's possibly the cause of much of my confusion!


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## Motozulu (13 Oct 2012)

You're right - there is so much info out there it's a bit baffling, s'pose the rule of thumb is trust yor mate's advice until it's proven wrong - cornering at speed is one of the few things I'm pretty good at just now thanks to his advice but I'm guessing there is no hard and fast rule? it's whatever suits you best.

And Lulu I was'nt calling you hardcore I just meant more experienced riders in gener - oh forget it - we have'nt had the best of starts, have we?


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## Cubist (14 Oct 2012)

Interesting viewpoints here. @Motozulu, I completely understand your references to what you call "snobbery" re trail centres. especially as you spend some time on STW, where there are the "elder statesmen" who believe that unless you are picking your way down slimy vertical boulder fields in the Pennines you ain't biking. I cannot stand this attitude personally as I love both kinds of riding. I have slimy boulder strewn descents aplenty round here, but I love trail centres where I can let fly, knowing that the surace is generally going to be stable, and there are no really nasty surprises round the corner like local trails can have. 

@lulubel, yes the videos are often very deceptive. An experienced rider on a big hitting 160 bike with a chest mount Go-Pro riding fast and flowing over most of the trail centres will make it look smooth and simpler than it actually is. You rarely see videos of novices stuttering to a halt and going OTB on a chute filled with babies heads, or losing traction on a tech climb and toppling sideways 'cos they can't unclip. 

That drop you refer to in your questions re Cannock is the Werewolf I think. I asked the same question once, as you see stuff like that at Dalby, and as you point out, a bit of a drop followed by a few roots shouldn't hold much mystery. The Werewolf however is challenging because it is approached via two trees that are about 800mm apart, so you can't carry speed through it. As you drop in you immediately have to change direction to turn into the sharp right hand turn , and as you haven't got any speed this becomes problematic. Most folk make the mistake of braking on the drop. 

Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best lines

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xItaExPazYw&feature=fvwrel


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## Cubist (14 Oct 2012)

Trail centres vary hugely in terms of their technical levels. Red Routes are perhaps the best exemplar as they are designed supposedly for fit, experienced riders on good quality machines. However, a rider used to some Red Routes thinking they are hardcore are going to be bitten at other trailcentres, as the standard varies hugely. Sherwood Pines is a great example. The red Kitchener Trail is fast, smooth, pedally. There is no contour worth speaking about, and about three rocks in total on the whole trail. There are some bomb-holes and a couple of whoops but to be fair I would happily take a young family round it, as there are no really tricky trail features at all. It is wonderfully flowing singletrack all the way round. Cannock reds are, I'm told, pretty technical. What's difficult about Cannock apparently, is that there are loads of jumps but no landers, so it's punishing. 

Dalby red has some great tech features in places, but all are doable. Dalby changes character throughout the whole 23 miles anyway, so will never be boring. There are parts of Dalby that take some very careful riding on an XC hardtail. 

Then you go to Wales and Scotland. I once rode the Ae line on the Cube and it was that ride that convinced me to get a full suss bike. The Ae line is steep, rocky, and I mean really rocky. The Cube shook me to bits riding it. Better trails in the Stanes are to be found at Kirroughtree, Mabie and Dalbeattie.

The Marin in Snowdonia is also rocky, but in my opinion flows better than Ae. It makes a hell of a lot of use of loose rocky descents, and yet folk still call it easy. Depends on your styel I reckon.

Llandegla is a great place for a novice/improver. It's designed so everything can be rolled, even all teh drops and jumps on the black sections, but pick up your speed and thrash it, and it becomes a jump filled heaven. It could get pretty harsh if you overdo it though.


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## screenman (14 Oct 2012)

Why do we so often see lines like this on the forum.


"Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best line"

I am sure in others eye's the poster of this line is thought of as an idiot.


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## Motozulu (14 Oct 2012)

Thanks for the summary Cubist - pretty much on the money I'd say. Only ever done Cannock up til now but mates of mine from Derby way tell me the Sherwood red is nowhere near as technical as Cannock. I do admire the lads and lasses who go on the natural trails and want to do it myself one day. Me and lulubel are polar opposite in our experiences in that we are learning in different environments, but as long as we both enjoy the sport - cool.
Like you said the snobs are a shame but you get that in all walks. The werewolf - looks nothing on video in reality it took me probably 10-15 refusals before I finally cracked it - do it without thinking now - but those bloody gawkers are a pain, the one on the vid is stood exactly on my approach. I'm meeting mates up there in an hour to go round the dog, which is something I try to avoid at weekends because of the sheer volume of bikes up there - I'm lucky that as a shift worker I get the trails to myself in midweek, but I've got to do it today with them as they are all mon-fri, 9-5ers  Hey ho.


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## Motozulu (14 Oct 2012)

screenman there is loads of room to watch people do that drop and not be in the way, when I started I watched others do it for tips on approach etc but I was'nt stood where the fella? in the vid was.


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## lulubel (14 Oct 2012)

Cubist said:


> @lulubel, yes the videos are often very deceptive. An experienced rider on a big hitting 160 bike with a chest mount Go-Pro riding fast and flowing over most of the trail centres will make it look smooth and simpler than it actually is. You rarely see videos of novices stuttering to a halt and going OTB on a chute filled with babies heads, or losing traction on a tech climb and toppling sideways 'cos they can't unclip.


 
I did see one vid that was posted by a bloke going so slowly that he was practically stopped most of the time (and had to keep stopping to let people pass), but I think he was doing an audio summary of the route as he rode round .... except the audio was so bad that you couldn't hear what he was saying!! To begin with, I was just sat there watching in disbelief because I couldn't figure out why he was riding so painfully slowly. I know there are plenty of videos of falls out there, but I've been avoiding them because I don't want to see how to do it wrong! Although, I suppose you can learn a lot from watching what to not do as well.



Cubist said:


> That drop you refer to in your questions re Cannock is the Werewolf I think. I asked the same question once, as you see stuff like that at Dalby, and as you point out, a bit of a drop followed by a few roots shouldn't hold much mystery. The Werewolf however is challenging because it is approached via two trees that are about 800mm apart, so you can't carry speed through it. As you drop in you immediately have to change direction to turn into the sharp right hand turn , and as you haven't got any speed this becomes problematic. Most folk make the mistake of braking on the drop.
> 
> Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best lines


 
Yes, that's the one. I did notice the tight approach and thought it looked a bit awkward to line up for, and had already decided if I ever get the chance to do a trail centre, it will be on a week day outside of holiday time!

There is something quite similar on one of my regular rides here, except it's much more messy, as I said, because it's natural. I think it's just a narrow path that MTBers have carved out by crossing from one track to another. You approach it on a relatively wide trail (generous vehicle width), but there's a lot of loose stone, and it's a bit uphill so you don't have any speed to speak of, and then you have to make a 90 degree turn into it. It drops down into a little gulley and then up the other side, so you don't have to turn straight afterwards, but it's a bumpy, loose surface and you do have to try and avoid hitting any of the bigger loose rocks, which seem to be in different positions every time I go up there! I just ride up to it slowly, get lined up, and as soon as my front wheel starts to drop off the edge, I let go of the brakes and don't touch them again until I'm on stable-ish ground.

The but I find more difficult is actually further down where there's a low stone wall/bank that the track goes over. At some point, someone has obviously pulled the end of it down, so you can go round the end, but the track actually lines up to go over the bank, and I found that easier on my own bike when the forks were up to it because you don't have to try and steer on the loose stuff.

It's all the loose stone around here that I find really difficult to tackle. The bank I described above gives you a bit of extra speed as you come off it, and you're still going downhill, so you have to try and control the speed on a mass of loose stone, while trying to steer well enough to avoid hitting the bigger bits. It's the feeling of not having much control that I don't like. I suppose it's similar to descending in slippery mud - just a harder landing if you get it wrong.



Cubist said:


> Then you go to Wales and Scotland. I once rode the Ae line on the Cube and it was that ride that convinced me to get a full suss bike. The Ae line is steep, rocky, and I mean really rocky. The Cube shook me to bits riding it. Better trails in the Stanes are to be found at Kirroughtree, Mabie and Dalbeattie.
> 
> The Marin in Snowdonia is also rocky, but in my opinion flows better than Ae. It makes a hell of a lot of use of loose rocky descents, and yet folk still call it easy. Depends on your styel I reckon.


 
Thanks for all those names of places. I'll look some of them up later and see if I can find anything that looks similar to what I've got around here.



Motozulu said:


> And Lulu I was'nt calling you hardcore I just meant more experienced riders in gener - oh forget it - we have'nt had the best of starts, have we?


 
Yeah, probably best to just forget it. I think it was just a lot of misunderstanding on both our parts - very easy on forums.

I was thinking, there are loads of people around here who I would describe as hardcore. They go flying down the trails like they think they're immortal, and all the rocks that cause me so much trouble don't seem to affect them at all. I was talking to someone the other day, and I asked him what the trails are like just after it's rained, and he looked at me like I was mad. He said: "You can't come up here for a few days after it's rained. It's much too slippery and dangerous." Anyone who rides MTBs in the UK would probably have found that hilarious, so I guess you only get good at what you're used to. Show him a bit of mud, and he turns into a nervous wreck!


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## Motozulu (14 Oct 2012)

Morning Lulubel - one BIG advantage I have over you ARE those youtube vids tbf. I can (and do) watch em for tips/lines to avoid etc. You don't have that luxury on the runs you do so it must be much more of a challenge for you - also - me doing purpose built trails means they are (as much as you can say this) safe, I'm not gonna turn a corner and find myself staring down a 200ft ravine at 30mph . Anyway - have a good day, it's a beautiful morning here, sun's blasting on a lovely autumn day - better get going before it get's too busy. See if I can split me other knee.


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> Someone will probably tell you your legs are too bent - or too short  - but I know exactly where you're coming from. Although I think being hit in the stomach by the saddle is probably preferable to being whacked on the backside by it and sent flying over the bars. (I'm yet to try either, and really hope I can get my dropper post before I do!)
> 
> 
> 
> I naturally weight the outside on the road bike (after a particularly scary incident years ago on a Post Office bike, when I caught the inside pedal on the tarmac on a roundabout), but I haven't really got any technique for cornering on the MTB yet. I'm still nervously trying to find the point where the front wheel lets go, so I can avoid it in future, and looking for the best way to maintain grip for as long as possible.


lots of roadies ride turns with the outside pedal down, for sure, and for the reasons you've given. very few roadies and mtb-ers actually unweight the saddle completely and drive all their weight through the outside pedal forcing the the tyres into the dirt.


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## lulubel (14 Oct 2012)

GregCollins said:


> lots of roadies ride turns with the outside pedal down, for sure, and for the reasons you've given. very few roadies and mtb-ers actually unweight the saddle completely and drive all their weight through the outside pedal forcing the the tyres into the dirt.


 
That's true. I certainly don't get out of the saddle to corner on the road bike. I do tend to put more weight through my outside leg as I corner faster, though, because I'm convinced it helps to stop the bike drifting if you're taking the corner a bit fast - possibly because you can balance that with more weight on your inside hand to guide the bike through the turn. Maybe. It seems to work, anyway, and it's got me out of a few of those swearing under my breath moments when I know I've taken a corner too fast.



Motozulu said:


> Morning Lulubel - one BIG advantage I have over you ARE those youtube vids tbf. I can (and do) watch em for tips/lines to avoid etc. You don't have that luxury on the runs you do so it must be much more of a challenge for you - also - me doing purpose built trails means they are (as much as you can say this) safe, I'm not gonna turn a corner and find myself staring down a 200ft ravine at 30mph . Anyway - have a good day, it's a beautiful morning here, sun's blasting on a lovely autumn day - better get going before it get's too busy. See if I can split me other knee.


 
I hope you have/had/are having a good time, and you manage to get through it without any more injuries. I've manged to get away with plenty of bruises and a few grazes so far, but I know it's only a matter of time - which reminds me, I must put a first aid kit together to carry with me.

The most scary fall I've had so far was when I decided to tackle a big loop that I hadn't done before, and the trail back down was really tough. (I haven't been down it again since because I figured I could do with some more experience and a better bike first.) I got tired and fell off nearly at the end of about 3km of rough, stony descent, and hit my knee on the end of the bars. I must have caught a nerve - although I didn't realise that immediately - and it was so painful. I managed to get myself and the bike up, and just stood, leaning on the bike, feeling sick and wishing I could "just go home". Then I looked to the side - I'd just been staring at the trail until then, and didn't realise I'd been missing the most incredible view - and saw the town where I live over 1000 ft below me. You don't realise how vulnerable you are until you can't bend your knee (so can't ride or walk), and you know you have to get yourself off that mountain somehow. Fortunately, the worst of the pain wore off pretty quickly, and I was able to get back on the bike and carry on.

I'd love to see some video of people riding the trails around here. All I've managed to find so far is the "official" video of the MTB race that takes place every autumn (next month, in fact - and no, I'm not going to attempt it, although I won't rule it out for the future - it's about 60-70km and the most I've done so far is about half that), but they seem to like showing people slogging up hills rather than descending technical stuff. I also know there's some woodland single track somewhere around here that I'd like to ride, but my attempts to find it have drawn a blank so far - and led me down lots of tricky dead ends! Hopefully, I'll get to do some rides with my doctor and his mates (which I talked about in another thread) once I've got my new bike, and I'll find out about loads of fun places to ride. There's also a cycle holiday company who are based on the other side of the mountains that divide us from the coast (the ones I ride on most of the time), so I might contact them and ask if I can join them on one of their rides. (I found out about the single track on their website, so they must know where it is!)

I stuck to the roads today because I'm still recovering from this stupid virus and I need to take it a bit easy, but I'm going back up the trails tomorrow when it's a bit quieter.


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## Cubist (14 Oct 2012)

screenman said:


> Why do we so often see lines like this on the forum.
> 
> 
> "Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best line"
> ...


The reference was directly to the video. Did you actually watch it before you leapt for the angry keys?

The rider falls off because he has to modify his line twice, once at the top where he would have had a better approach had he been able to swing wide to enter the feature, and again at the bottom because some clown is parked right where he needs to go to exit smoothly.

Meet me, read any of my posts and you will see I am only ever keen to help others. You ask how often we see lines like that on this forum.... have you got any examples? If you can find anywhere where I have displayed the out of context attitude you are referring to I will apologise profusely.


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## screenman (14 Oct 2012)

I took feature as being the drop off on the trail, not the video. But saying that there must have been many a time you were an idiot or where you born extremely clever at everything you do?


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## Cubist (14 Oct 2012)

Sorry, but you seem to be deliberately picking fights, and I don't do that .


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## lulubel (14 Oct 2012)

screenman said:


> I took feature as being the drop off on the trail, not the video. But saying that there must have been many a time you were an idiot or where you born extremely clever at everything you do?


 
screenman, if you can't be nice, please go away and stop trying to derail my thread.


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## screenman (14 Oct 2012)

I sincerely apologise, it is just the fact that I do not like inexperienced cyclist being called idiots. I am out.


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## billflat12 (14 Oct 2012)

Don't wish to hijack the thread but don,t understand all this natural trail hype, good trail centers are designed with our enjoyment in mind and do this very well as well as being sustainable, some are a little sanitized but one of my local favorites needs no facilities & relies on a honesty box , most importantly it keeps a natural charm & flows, some features can distract some riders but mostly in a positive way, to avoid the rush means avoid 9-5 summer weekend slots, "Check out the switchbacks on the descents to see how riders slow then shift their weight on the corners & make their own use out of some features available on the trail " It,s all down to expierience and making things work for yourself.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmCM4lbrlo


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## 02GF74 (14 Oct 2012)

.... back to the video, I see pleny of room to the left of the so called idiot - or is that not the correct line?

I like the way the s.c.i. just kinda stood there like nothing had happpened despite a rider falling off!!


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## Motozulu (14 Oct 2012)

You do have to approach it as wide as possible to prepare for the very sharp right hander at the bottom - going straight on is risking an argument with a very large tree directly in front of the drop  thing is once you are there in person all this is very obvious - so to stand on an obvious line is a bit stupid - I'm with cubist. As for inexperienced - that's what I am, however being inexperienced does'nt give you an automatic 'excused common sense, do not stop at go' card.

Lulubel if you ever get a head/chest camera I hope you post the vid on here, that scenery sounds bloody stunning - for the record no more injuries, we did the dog twice plus a 15 mile blue run - all in all over 3 hours going at it - I'm shattered but with a huge grin on me fizzog - thanks for the thought.


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## lulubel (15 Oct 2012)

I managed to get out on the trails today, but I'm still feeling really washed out, so it was a bit of a struggle. I was fine on the flats and descents, but as soon as I started uphill, my body told me where to go.

I went in the woods just a couple of km out of town, which is mostly fire roads, but it's quite interesting at the moment because we had the first rains of autumn a couple of weeks ago, so they're badly cut up, and what soil there was has been washed away, leaving lots of loose rock. There are also some deeper sections where grit has been washed down off the mountainside, and that caught me out a couple of times.

I was hoping to get in a bit of practice on a kind of MTB area that local people have claimed, which has some awkward little drops and stuff, but the local equivalent of the national parks people were up there, and I don't think they're terribly impressed with that, so I thought I'd better not. I also had an encounter with 2 British women with 7 dogs between them, none of which were on leads, and 3 of which tried to fling themselves under my front wheel. And there I was thinking Monday was a good day because I'd have it all to myself!


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## lulubel (16 Oct 2012)

Motozulu said:


> Lulubel if you ever get a head/chest camera I hope you post the vid on here, that scenery sounds bloody stunning


 
I can take some photos, anyway, although I'm not sure my cheap camera will do the views justice!

I'm glad to hear you got through your latest adventure with no new injuries.

Yesterday, I realised one of my biggest problems over technical stuff is tensing my shoulders and lifting them up, rather than keeping them down and relaxed. The bike handles so much better when I'm relaxed, so it's something I really need to work on. At the moment, it's tense up - "no, relax" - tense up - "no, relax" - and so on to the bottom of the hill!


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## GrumpyGregry (16 Oct 2012)

lulubel said:


> Yesterday, I realised one of my biggest problems over technical stuff is tensing my shoulders and lifting them up, rather than keeping them down and relaxed. The bike handles so much better when I'm relaxed, so it's something I really need to work on. At the moment, it's tense up - "no, relax" - tense up - "no, relax" - and so on to the bottom of the hill!


perfectly normal. I find I'm focusing on having soft hands, and my arms and shoulders and neck just follow. That said any minor loss of control and my mojo evaporates for a few minutes and I'm back to the 90's and riding like a dead sailor with a vulcan death grip. I do wonder sometimes if I'll ever ride like I used to ever again...


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## Motozulu (16 Oct 2012)

A mate I was out with on that 25 miler on Sunday was complaining of a stiff neck and shoulders - as you said it's gripping on for dear life/concentrating hard for 3 hours that does it. I was ok, yes you tense up for a few seconds when it all starts going a bit pear shaped but that very early advice I got about 'heavy feet-light hands' has really worked well for me.


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