# Two Deaths: Bristol



## Rob500 (27 Jan 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21225233

Just saw this. Terrible news.


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## Strathlubnaig (27 Jan 2013)

Pretty awful news, condolences to families.
Link


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## addictfreak (27 Jan 2013)

I will never understand how anyone could leave an injured person(s) lying in the road.

Lets hope the Police catch the driver quickly.


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## gavintc (27 Jan 2013)

Horrid, I really hate reading these reports. Deepest condolences to the families and I hope they find the culprit.


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## Hawk (27 Jan 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21225233

Always difficult to hear of these things.

RIP.


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## runner (27 Jan 2013)

I just live a short distance from this crash scene...we saw loads of police activity this afternoon including a police helicopter....horrific what has happened, I am in shock that something so horrific happened almost at my front door!


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## shouldbeinbed (27 Jan 2013)

Unacceptable, RIP & lets hope the full extent of the law gets applied to the perpetrator


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## glenn forger (27 Jan 2013)

Scum. Worthless scum who will get a lesser sentence than if they were drunk. An incentive to hit-and -runners.



> Eyewitnesses said police were investigating several separate incidents in and around the Hanham area. There were also reports that the person involved deliberately targeted people.


 
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Reports-cyclists-dead-hit-run-Hanham/story-17978337-detail/story.html


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## sabian92 (27 Jan 2013)

RIP.

The awful thing is they will probably not get that harsh a sentence. Tandem riders are not exactly hard to miss, and if he was targeting people, I get the impression he may end up in mental care, not a prison.


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## pplpilot (27 Jan 2013)

Tragic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21225233


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## david k (27 Jan 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21225233

sorry if someones already seen it


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## skudupnorth (27 Jan 2013)

And it starts again,cyclists killed by a coward in a car.I hope they nail this scum......PROPERLY !
RIP fellow riders and my thoughts with your families


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## simon the viking (27 Jan 2013)

Very sad news just read it


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## Typhon (27 Jan 2013)

That's just awful.  RIP. I hope they throw the book at the driver when they catch him, but I bet he won't get anywhere near the punishment he deserves.


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## Spartak (27 Jan 2013)

My condolences to the families.
Very tragic news.


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## Dajoker188 (27 Jan 2013)

RIP. Just read the story and i dearly hope the driver gets put away!


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## ianrauk (27 Jan 2013)

Driver has handed himself in to the police.


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Jan 2013)

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/cycl...-detail/story.html?9323082296&redirected=true


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## Kiwiavenger (27 Jan 2013)

It's a road I used to cycle down regularly when I lived in bristol! Rip to the two cyclists I really hope it's noone I know lots of friends and family in the area.


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## GrumpyGregry (27 Jan 2013)

RIP and please God may something be done to end the killing and the maiming.


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## deptfordmarmoset (27 Jan 2013)




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## Gez73 (27 Jan 2013)

Just been on news that someone has handed themselves in in relation to this incident. They had abandoned the vehicle involved apparently. There isn't a long enough sentence for them. G


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## Linford (27 Jan 2013)

That they ran off and left the couple on the road to die is just unforgivable. The ramifications for their families will be terrible


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## Mr Haematocrit (27 Jan 2013)

Posted here as well

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/two-deaths-bristol.122685/#post-2279953


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## dandegas1 (27 Jan 2013)

This happen around the corner from where I live. I'm appalled. I saw the police take away the car when I was driving home but didn't realise the seriousness of what happened until I saw the news.


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## Linford (27 Jan 2013)

Were they hit on the pinch point ?


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## Ste T. (28 Jan 2013)

Happened just before 4pm?
Stand by for the dazzled by the sun get out clause.


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## Kins (28 Jan 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-21226126

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...dem-dead-after-Bristol-hit-and-run-crash.html

Doesn't say much on the circumstances. Bloke handed himself in eventually. Tandem is a bloody big bike to miss seeing if that's what happened.

Poor buggers.


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## Minotier (28 Jan 2013)

So sad. Two more avoidable casualties and anguish and despair for the family.


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## mickle (28 Jan 2013)

It's enough to make you weep.

There, but for the grace of god (if you believe in such things), goes each and every one of us.


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## Arch (28 Jan 2013)

Both dead at the scene, must have been quite an impact. 

No doubt because he's handed himself in, he'll get a slap on the wrist and a £50 fine.


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## postman (28 Jan 2013)

Ste T. said:


> Happened just before 4pm?
> Stand by for the dazzled by the sun get out clause.


That was my first thought.
I hope there is some real justice this time.I am fed up with cyclists being cannon fodder for one and all.


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## Beebo (28 Jan 2013)

the car was being persued by Police at the time of the accident. The guy should get a long custodial sentence.


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## Andrew_P (28 Jan 2013)

Beebo said:


> the car was being persued by Police at the time of the accident. The guy should get a long custodial sentence.


 When it was first reported I was fairly sure I saw in the report that the same car had been onvolved with another cyclist earlier, but I cannot see that being reported anywhere now. I assume I mis read this as being the case, involved with a Police chase.


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## Maz (28 Jan 2013)

Horrific. Absolutely horrific.


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 Jan 2013)

RIP Ross (32) and Clare (30) Simons. 

2 people arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving. 



> Police arrested a 38-year-old man on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and a 35-year-old woman, 35, on suspicion of dangerous driving.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

Grown adults using cars as toys. If they were racing they both belong in prison and a life ban. They have shown they're not capable of driving sensibly.


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## Demonclimber (28 Jan 2013)

Condolences to families and may those 2 youngsters RIP. Driver should be charged with manslaughter, surely. As handed themselves in will get good representation and possibly a £25 fine, 3 points and option to attend awareness course. Lock them up and throw away the key - forever!


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## benb (28 Jan 2013)

And this oxygen thief had this to say:



Sicko tweets 'road tax' hate after hit & run killing of two cyclists by carltonreid, on Flickr


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## nilling (28 Jan 2013)

R.I.P.

Hope the driver get more than £35 fine and 3 points!!


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## MickL (28 Jan 2013)

benb said:


> And this oxygen thief had this to say:
> 
> 
> 
> Sicko tweets 'road tax' hate after hit & run killing of two cyclists by carltonreid, on Flickr


 
What a nob jockey :/


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## snorri (28 Jan 2013)

benb said:


> And this oxygen thief had this to say:


 
Why do you help him to more widely circulate his message?


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## Accy cyclist (28 Jan 2013)

MickL said:


> What a nob jockey :/


 
The inadequate cowards who sit behind a keyboard sending out their vile messages eh!!
The worrying thing is that scum like him actually believe in what they say!


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## benb (28 Jan 2013)

snorri said:


> Why do you help him to more widely circulate his message?


 
I didn't think I was. Unless you think that people on this forum are receptive to his point of view?


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## snorri (28 Jan 2013)

benb said:


> I didn't think I was.


...well you did! By copying it on to the forum you have spread his hateful message to a wider audience.


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## Glow worm (28 Jan 2013)

Accy cyclist said:


> The inadequate cowards who sit behind a keyboard sending out their vile messages eh!!
> The worrying thing is that scum like him actually believe in what they say!


 
That's the kind of thing that makes even an old leftie hippy like me yearn for the gallows to be brought back.

RIP the two cyclists- tragic. Let's hope the legal process can come up with punishment that isn't a complete insult to the dead for a change.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

Should be manslaughter, that's two families destroyed.


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## EltonFrog (28 Jan 2013)

Those poor people. This is desperately sad for the families of the two young people that died , I cant even begin to imagine what they must be going through right now.

Just as sad, and maybe even sadder is the bile that some fool on twitter has written, it's a terrible indictment of some sectors of society today, that someone thinks that its all right to write something like that. It beggars belief.


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## srw (28 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> Should be manslaughter, that's two families destroyed.





CarlP said:


> Those poor people. This is desperately sad for the families of the two young people that died ,


 You two do realise that they were married to each other, don't you?

It's very sad for the family - on both sides - and for friends. And as half of a married tandem team it feels closer to me than most on-road deaths. But there's no evidence that this was anything other than a case of people randomly being in the wrong place at the wrong time and suffering the consequences. It happens all the time, and shouldn't change individual behaviour. If it contributes to the changes in policy that are happening anyway, that's a good result for society from an individual tragedy.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

Shall we wait for trhe investigation to finish before exonerating the driver?


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## jefmcg (28 Jan 2013)

snorri said:


> Why do you help him to more widely circulate his message?


He's had to lock down his account: good work benb!

(I tried to look and it said you need permission to read them)


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## srw (28 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> Shall we wait for trhe investigation to finish before exonerating the driver?


 Who's doing that?


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

You claimed there's no evidence of anything other than bad luck. You can't possibly know that.


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## Mo1959 (28 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> You claimed there's no evidence of anything other than bad luck. You can't possibly know that.


 
On further reading, the police had already attempted to stop the driver and failed so was probably speeding I would imagine........so definitely not just bad luck.


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## Sara_H (28 Jan 2013)

LOCO said:


> When it was first reported I was fairly sure I saw in the report that the same car had been onvolved with another cyclist earlier, but I cannot see that being reported anywhere now. I assume I mis read this as being the case, involved with a Police chase.


I remember reading that too.


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## srw (28 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> You claimed there's no evidence of anything other than bad luck. You can't possibly know that.


 Bad luck for the victims being in the wrong place at the wrong time is definitely not an exoneration of the driver - and you shouldn't be so naive as to read it as such. The clue's in the phrase "at the wrong place at the wrong time" - at the exact place and time where someone who appears to have been avoiding a police attempt to stop him appears to have been driving extremely dangerously.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65558000/jpg/_65558827_hi017067033.jpg

Some very sad updates. This wasn't "bad luck" it was someone crashing into two young people, killing them and running away.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I remember reading that too.


 
The early reports had that the driver may have deliberately targeted other road users.



> Eyewitnesses said police were investigating several separate incidents in and around the Hanham area. There were also reports that the person involved deliberately targeted people.


 
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Reports-cyclists-dead-hit-run-Hanham/story-17978337-detail/story.html


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## MrJamie (28 Jan 2013)

Very sad


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## summerdays (28 Jan 2013)

Very sad. Lots of people talking about this today, even heard of one person who had had loads of friends contact her because she was a tandem rider before they announced their names.


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## Ern1e (28 Jan 2013)

This is so sad RIP fellow cyclists and lets hope the driver gets a very long custodial sentence.


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

I wonder if the woman arrested was a passenger or another driver.

This seems to be a Level One offence:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/

Sentence range 2-5 years.


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## deptfordmarmoset (28 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> I wonder if the woman arrested was a passenger or another driver.
> 
> This seems to be a Level One offence:
> 
> ...


Can it be the passenger? She was arrested on suspicion of dangerous _driving._


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## glenn forger (28 Jan 2013)

I seem to remember passengers who egged on the driver being charged with similar, I may be wrong.


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## Steve Lancashire (28 Jan 2013)

Absolutley ubelieavable, 2 deaths down to bad driving. it will not put me off riding on the roads, but my other half and kids are now asking me if it is worth putting my life at risk riding as a hobby which i do. We as cyclist know the amount of seriously bad drivers there are on our roads, and we do have to have our wits about us all the time, but even then, we can only do so much, just check out you tube, it's very scary. Mind you, I see some really bad cyclist on our roads also, cutting red lights, weaving in and out without any regard for anyone.


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## Crankarm (29 Jan 2013)

If indeed the scrotes that killed this couple are convicted then the sentence will likely be derisory. It always is. The maximum is NEVER given so we are probably looking at a 6 month ban and a fine for killing two people. It was probably some drugged up scrote with a string of previous longer than the M6. It's times like this I wish we had an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth sentencing. Scum.

Also it may transpire that the police have some culpability by pursuing the vehicle causing it to be driven extremely dangerously. Car chases make for good Police Camera Action footage but it puts the public at great risk.


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## ComedyPilot (29 Jan 2013)

The police are afforded the ability to pursue, and as soon as they 'light up' they become responsible for their actions. Those actions also include the length of the pursuit, the speed of the pursuit, and if the pursuit wasn't called off when it should have been the police drivers have to answer why. From the reports, the police spotted a vehicle at speed, initiated a pursuit, but lost contact almost immediately. IME in cases like that it is SOP to end the pursuit and call other cars into the area for a search. Let us not forget, those people died because of a ........ selfish car driver. Not because a police officer may have tried to stop the car. The responsibility rests solely on the scum-sucking excuse for a human being that drove the car into them and then RAN.

The scum will continue to do this, and more cyclists (and other innocent road users) will die till we adopt a tough stance on road safety.


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## glenn forger (29 Jan 2013)

Yes, high speed pursuits need to be cleared, that wasn't the case in this horrible event.


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## summerdays (29 Jan 2013)

Crankarm said:


> Also it may transpire that the police have some culpability by pursuing the vehicle causing it to be driven extremely dangerously. Car chases make for good Police Camera Action footage but it puts the public at great risk.


What do you suggest the police do if they see a car being driven in a dangerous manner? The report suggested the police asked the driver to stop and he didn't. It was already being driven in a way that had brought it to police attention.


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## SatNavSaysStraightOn (29 Jan 2013)

Steve Lancashire said:


> Absolutley ubelieavable, 2 deaths down to bad driving. it will not put me off riding on the roads, *but my other half and kids are now asking me if it is worth putting my life at risk riding as a hobby which i do*. We as cyclist know the amount of seriously bad drivers there are on our roads, and we do have to have our wits about us all the time, but even then, we can only do so much, just check out you tube, it's very scary. Mind you, I see some really bad cyclist on our roads also, cutting red lights, weaving in and out without any regard for anyone.


I frequenlty have the same conversation with my mother. However, my rational is: everytime you get into a car, you place your life in the hands of that car's driver. As the driver of a car, your passengers are putting their lives in your hands. Chances are you could also be killed in a head on collision that there was nothing you could do anything about. Driving is also a very dangerous "hobby". You only have to look at the number of accidents vs deaths. As an (RoSPA & IAM) advanced level driver for 22 of the 23 years I have been driving, I see much more than other drivers do, and am often significantly more aware of what is happening all around me than most drivers (my OH has had to do something about his driving standard, because it was that bad, I felt like I was driving even as a passenger, so never let him drive: it scared me too much!). As a passenger in a car, I choose my drivers carefully, often prefering for us to go out of our way than let some of my or his family drive us anywhere. That metal box on wheels that kills cyclists, also kills drivers & passengers and pedestrians as well.

I am not in anyway detracting from their deaths, it is utterly tragic and nothing can change that now, so please don't get me wrong on this. I am simply pointing out that the arguement regarding putting your life at risk on 2 wheels (staying fit and healthy) is not valid in my opinion.


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## Pale Rider (29 Jan 2013)

Almost inevitably:

http://news.sky.com/story/1044714/bristol-tandem-cyclists-deaths-man-charged


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## Peteaud (29 Jan 2013)

Pale Rider said:


> Almost inevitably:
> 
> http://news.sky.com/story/1044714/bristol-tandem-cyclists-deaths-man-charged


 

Nicky Lovell will appear before North Avon Magistrates' Court on Wednesday accused of two counts of causing death by dangerous driving.
The 38-year-old, of Oldland Common, south Gloucestershire, has also been charged with driving while disqualified, driving without third party insurance and driving a vehicle and failing to stop after a road accident.

Words fail me.


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## Typhon (29 Jan 2013)

Most drivers who are convicted of driving when disqualified don't go to prison. Instead they get a fine and an extended ban. Where is the deterrent? Why would he not just continue driving? The odds of being caught are low and the punishment is so derisory.

You have to do something very very bad to get disqualified from driving. Being caught speeding 3 times won't see you banned for even a day. Hell you can knock a cyclist off his bike, drag his body down the street on your bonnet and just get a £35 fine. So the fact that when people are disqualified they will face no serious consequences if they get caught driving again is really frightening.

Until the law is changed incidents like this are just going to happen again and again. But unfortunately the tide is turning the other way, I can foresee that in 20 years time no-one will ever get sent to prison for an offence committed on the road, no matter how heinous.


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## Accy cyclist (29 Jan 2013)

A damn shame, they were on an innocent Sunday afternoon ride when they had the misfortune to encounter the monster called Nicky Lovell!


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## glenn forger (30 Jan 2013)

> A police spokeswoman confirmed that Lovell had been charged and said that a 35-year-old woman, also arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving after the incident, remained on police bail, pending further inquiries.
> The Post has learned that the 35-year-old woman, who has not been named, was in the car that hit Mr and Mrs Simons.
> The woman is understood to have stayed at the scene of the crash and was arrested there.


 
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Nick...using-deaths/story-17999783-detail/story.html


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## Boris Bajic (30 Jan 2013)

Typhon said:


> [Post edited]
> 
> You have to do something very very bad to get disqualified from driving.


 

The collision was dreadful and if guilt is proved I hope there will be a good measure of remorse and a severe penalty/sentence. One can only feel sympathy for those who loved the dead cyclists.

That being so, I have to say i know many people who have been disqualified for relatively minor offences. I do not know the history of the alleged driver in this incident, but I was disqualified as a youngster for riding a large motorcycle under-age, with no license or insurance.

I do not disagree with the tenor of the piece I quote, just the observation that one has to do something very, very bad to be disqualified.

Once again, condolences and sympathy to the breaved.


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## glenn forger (30 Jan 2013)

You think driving with no insurance is a minor offence? You're part of the problem.


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## glenn forger (30 Jan 2013)

Typhon said:


> Most drivers who are convicted of driving when disqualified don't go to prison. Instead they get a fine and an extended ban. Where is the deterrent? Why would he not just continue driving? The odds of being caught are low and the punishment is so derisory.
> 
> You have to do something very very bad to get disqualified from driving. Being caught speeding 3 times won't see you banned for even a day. Hell you can knock a cyclist off his bike, drag his body down the street on your bonnet and just get a £35 fine. So the fact that when people are disqualified they will face no serious consequences if they get caught driving again is really frightening.
> 
> Until the law is changed incidents like this are just going to happen again and again. But unfortunately the tide is turning the other way, I can foresee that in 20 years time no-one will ever get sent to prison for an offence committed on the road, no matter how heinous.


 
One in three killer drivers serve no jail time. The maximim sentence has never been passed. Thousands of drivers are on more than 12 points. Uninsured drivers cost the rest of us half a billion pounds a year, and we, honest insured drivers, will end up paying the compensation in this case via the MIB.


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## captain nemo1701 (30 Jan 2013)

Typhon said:


> Most drivers who are convicted of driving when disqualified don't go to prison. Instead they get a fine and an extended ban. Where is the deterrent? Why would he not just continue driving? The odds of being caught are low and the punishment is so derisory.
> 
> You have to do something very very bad to get disqualified from driving. Being caught speeding 3 times won't see you banned for even a day. Hell you can knock a cyclist off his bike, drag his body down the street on your bonnet and just get a £35 fine. So the fact that when people are disqualified they will face no serious consequences if they get caught driving again is really frightening.
> 
> Until the law is changed incidents like this are just going to happen again and again. But unfortunately the tide is turning the other way, I can foresee that in 20 years time no-one will ever get sent to prison for an offence committed on the road, no matter how heinous.


 
Unfortunately true It's our car-centric culture to blame. It never ceases to astonish me that these scumbags don't seem to understand the meaning of 'disqualified'. I passed my driving test in 1981 and had my first speeding offence (3 points) in 1993. I was horrified at the time and embarassed about it but then I found out that just about the entire company I worked at had at least 6 points on their licences, didn't give a damn and treated it as 'normal'  .


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## Boris Bajic (30 Jan 2013)

glenn forger said:


> You think driving with no insurance is a minor offence? You're part of the problem.


 
I may well be part of the problem. I cannot say. I do consider a young teenager riding a motorcycle illegally and _sans permis _a relatively minor offence. Not insignificant or irrelevant, but relatively minor.

I am not looking to pick a fight over this in a thread whose content is built around a tragedy. I was merely pointing out that a ban does not necessarily derive from a 'very, very bad offence'.

I'm sure there are 15-year-olds who have no desire to ride motorcycles and who know all there is to know about insurance and the law and responsible behaviour. I was not in that group. I was a scalliwag. I still consider it a relatively minor offence, but one for which I (rightly) received a ban, a fine, two endorsements and a massive insurance premium for many years to come.

I'm happy that I give you lots of opportunity to point the finger of moral rage at me and happy for you that you have an unslakeable thirst for doing so, but there is not yet a law banning quiet disagreement on the Internet.

Enjoy your cycling. I was rather hoping you'd put me on ignore.


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## glenn forger (30 Jan 2013)

You think uninsured drivers is a minor problem. An uninsured driver has just killed two young cyclists and they cost the rest of us more than half a billion a year and rising.


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## Steve Lancashire (31 Jan 2013)

"I am not in anyway detracting from their deaths, it is utterly tragic and nothing can change that now, so please don't get me wrong on this. I am simply pointing out that the arguement regarding putting your life at risk on 2 wheels (staying fit and healthy) is not valid in my opinion"

SNSS, I appreciate your opinions, and agree with most of them (not too sure about the driver of the car bit though), but when we are talking about members of a family concerned about their father/husband/son etc, it can be difficult for them to understand. Especially if like me, it is purely a hobby,and a way of keeping fit, and not having to do it, or possibly as a way of making a living.

It wont stop me from riding the roads of Manchester and surrounding areas, but saying that, I have to admit riding on our roads can be frought with danger, and the onus is on us as cyclists to have eyes in not only the back of our head, but the side of it to!

Happy cycling.


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## Arjimlad (24 Apr 2013)

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Hanham...uilty-deaths/story-18790067-detail/story.html

Just updating this. The culprits have pleaded guilty.


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## EltonFrog (24 Apr 2013)

Just heard it on the news. I'm afraid they'll get a more lenient sentence because of the plea.


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## antnee (24 Apr 2013)

As I refuse to watch any news (it all too depressing ) This Item has just caught my attention I have been to busy cycling But I hope that when this comes to court that the driver is given the maximum prision term and a fine and 15 year comunity service order when he comes out of prision. Am I being to harsh?


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## glenn forger (24 Apr 2013)

She lied to try to cover up for him, she's out on bail and he's remanded in custody, unusual.


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## Davidc (24 Apr 2013)

Sentencing is on 22nd May.


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## RiflemanSmith (24 Apr 2013)

Lets see what they get, four to five years max.
Only serve half might even get earlier on a tag.
The law needs to be changed it's a joke and I am not just saying that as a cyclist.


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## summerdays (24 Apr 2013)

CarlP said:


> Just heard it on the news. I'm afraid they'll get a more lenient sentence because of the plea.


Local news were suggesting that was the reason for the plea, but that it didn't seem to be backed up with any sign of true remorse.


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## EltonFrog (24 Apr 2013)

There is a couple of police photos of the two scrotes on this site.

http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2013-04-24/man-pleads-guilty-to-tandem-deaths/


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## GrumpyGregry (24 Apr 2013)

What a (pair of) specimen(s).


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