# Ultegra Cassette worth it?



## Nomadski (8 May 2013)

I have a Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105 which has almost exclusively Shimano 105 groupset (changed the standard FSA Gossamer cranks to 105) with the exception of my chain (KMC X10), rear cassette (Tiagra 4600 12-28) and the brake calipers (Tektro R539).

Am looking at the Ultegra 11-28 cassette as its a relatively cheap upgrade (£44) or perhaps ultegra brake calipers (same price).

Just wondering a few things -

* I'm presuming the cassette is a better upgrade than the brake calipers, if I had to chose between them?

* Am I right in thinking the 11 vs 12 tooth will give me a little more downhill drive, without losing anything going uphills?

* Do I need to check anything with my bike regarding compatibility? The chainrings are 50-34 Shimano 105 5700's.

* Am I going to notice anything particularly improved with the upgrade? Is it worth it?


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## Fab Foodie (8 May 2013)

No it's not worth it IMO.
I replaced an Ultegra cassette with a 105 and notice no difference. The caliper difference may have a slight impact but big gains can be had with decent blocks like Koolstop Salmons as a first move.
Wheels, tyres and lighter tubes make the biggest gains, save-up and invest here first. Michelin Pro-race 4 are only £27 at Wiggle at the mo.


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## Nomadski (8 May 2013)

Fab Foodie said:


> No it's not worth it IMO.
> I replaced an Ultegra cassette with a 105 and notice no difference. The caliper difference may have a slight impact but big gains can be had with decent blocks like Koolstop Salmons as a first move.
> Wheels, tyres and lighter tubes make the biggest gains, save-up and invest here first. Michelin Pro-race 4 are only £27 at Wiggle at the mo.


 
Koolstops already fitted!

You think there are big gains from Schwalbe Lugano to those Michelin Pro 4's?

Wheels are Shimano RS10's FYI.

Not much of a clue when it comes to wheels and tyres.

Also, I would be upgrading from Tiagra cassette, not a 105 cassette. Not sure if there is any real significant difference between those two either!


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## Fab Foodie (8 May 2013)

Shwalbe Luganos are a basic training tyre, Pro 4 is a lightweight race tyre weighing over 100 grams less EACH. As this is rotating weight it will feel even lighter. Also it's very supple and gives a very plush ride and grips like sh1t to a blanket. The downside is that they'll not last as long and may p*ncture slightly more, BUT, they'll put a grin on your face. Absolutely worth it.
Wheels are fine for starters, an upgrade will be a few hundred quid. Try tyres and tubes first.


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## buggi (8 May 2013)

Go to 105 if you want to upgrade but i wouldn't bother going up to Ultegra. i've got ultegra, and i had 105 on my last bike. the only difference i notice is the upgraded cost of replacing parts when i have a service. you're better off upgrading wheels if you want to go faster and have spare cash. 
at the end of the day, once the chain is sitting on the cog... it does the same job. 105 might give you a slightly smoother change over than Tiagra but you wouldn't notice the difference between 105 and ultegra so i wouldn't bother going higher than 105, particularly as the rest of your groupset is 105. if the rest of your groupset was ultegra and you had a tiagra casette, i would say upgrade, but in your case, i would say don't bother with more than 105 and i'm not sure you'll even notice a difference doing that.


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## Lee_M (8 May 2013)

agree with the others, I have. a 105 and an ultegra cassette on two different wheelsets and the ultegra is no better in terms of use.

it might be lighter, but a good dump beforehand will beat that!


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## Nomadski (8 May 2013)

Looks like I'll grab 2 of those tyres then. Thanks for the responses, seem to all be in agreement.

EDIT: 1 last thing unanswered - * Am I right in thinking the 11 vs 12 tooth will give me a little more downhill drive, without losing anything going uphills?

One last thing, I have noticed when I change gears at the front chainring from small to big, I have to 'hold' the shifter for a few seconds for it to change, whereas to change down chainring I can just flick the shifter. Is this as intended? Reason I ask is maybe 1 out of 5 times the chain slips back to small and I have to hold it again to upshift again.


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## RWright (8 May 2013)

I notice a big difference on 105 vs Ultegra on the front chain ring(by this I mean the ease of shifting). It is not a fair comparison because my Ultegra is 6700 and 105 is not current generation. Getting a front derailleur dialed in can be a little time consuming sometimes.


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## Nomadski (8 May 2013)

RWright said:


> I notice a big difference on 105 vs Ultegra on the front chain ring. It is not a fair comparison because my Ultegra is 6700 and 105 is not current generation. Getting a front derailleur dialed in can be a little time consuming sometimes.


 
You think I need to look at the derailleur? Haven't touched it since I got the bike.


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## RWright (8 May 2013)

Nomadski said:


> You think I need to look at the derailleur? Haven't touched it since I got the bike.


It might not be a bad idea to check out a few youtube videos and maybe read at the park tool site. Then just look at yours and see what you think. I am sure you can adjust it but it is one of the slightly more difficult bike tuning task.


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

The height and angle adjuster is covered in an app I have and they mention checking alignment of gear line and cage line, but the pic isn't overly helpful on this one element. 

When your changing to the big chainring, are you holding the shifter for a second RWright?


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## RWright (9 May 2013)

Nomadski said:


> The height and angle adjuster is covered in an app I have and they mention checking alignment of gear line and cage line, but the pic isn't overly helpful on this one element.
> 
> When your changing to the big chainring, are you holding the shifter for a second RWright?


 
No. On either my Ultegra or 105 it is a click and done. The 105 just takes quite a bit more pressure and it takes two clicks to go thru the trim. I can go right thru it with the Ultegra, much quicker. I don't have to hold either one though.


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

RWright said:


> No. One either my Ultegra or 105 it is a click and done. The 105 just takes quite a bit more pressure and *it takes two clicks to go thru the trim*. I can go right thru it with the Ultegra, much quicker. I don't have to hold either one though.


 
Not sure what this means mate?

Going to have a look at it after my ride tomorrow.


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## RWright (9 May 2013)

the trim sets it into a position to click to the next ring quicker, moves the derailleur into a closer position


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

RWright said:


> the trim sets it into a position to click to the next ring quicker, moves the derailleur into a closer position



Sorry I'm being incredibly dumb here, where is the trim? What is clicking twice to go thru it? Closer position to the chainring?

Regarding the tyres, is it completely wrong to put blue tyres on a primarily silver with a dash of black bike? Haven't approached the rules on this one, may have to be boring and stick with black, but I do so love blue...


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## MickeyBlueEyes (9 May 2013)

For setting up your gears (and brakes) this BikeRadar vid is really helpful, easy to understand steps, the guy makes it look as easy as it should be.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLqrhFzW8s0


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## RWright (9 May 2013)

This explains trimming, a little. Basically it is clicking the levers in lightly so as not to move them the entire distance of a full shift. It only moves the derailleur a shorter distance than the full shift. It can be used to help avoid chain rub and it makes the next click of the shifter engage the shift easier and quicker, racers and other high performance riders use it mainly I think (as well as cross chaining clowns like myself..I am breaking that bad habit slowly but surely ). A lot of newer riders are not really that aware of it I think. 

I had to go out for a while but I was thinking that maybe your cable might just be stretched a little if it has never been adjusted since you got your bike. First thing I would do is see if you have an inline barrel adjuster for the front derailleur and try adjusting that IN SMALL INCREMENTS (1/4 turns) and see if it takes enough slack out of your cable to help. Don't get carried away with the turns.

If your bike was new when you got it and has never been adjusted since, there is a good chance I think that could be the problem. The above video is a good one and I would even suggest looking at others on youtube as well. If I didn't feel comfortable enough trying to adjust it myself I would take it to a LBS and let them check it out. I would try to watch them if possible.


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## RWright (9 May 2013)

Nomadski said:


> Regarding the tyres, is it completely wrong to put blue tyres on a primarily silver with a dash of black bike? Haven't approached the rules on this one, may have to be boring and stick with black, but I do so love blue...


 
Whatever trips your trigger there sport . It's your bike


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## Pikey (9 May 2013)

Watch out with upgrading the brakes to 105, the synapse has 57mm drop, dont think the 105's reach that far!


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## SpokeyDokey (9 May 2013)

Nomadski I love how your mind wanders from one thing to another!


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## zizou (9 May 2013)

I wouldnt upgrade it if your existing cassette is still working good but when it comes time to replace your existing cassette then it is worth considering it if you can find a good deal...just dont expect to notice much difference!


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

MickeyBlueEyes said:


> For setting up your gears (and brakes) this BikeRadar vid is really helpful, easy to understand steps, the guy makes it look as easy as it should be.
> 
> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLqrhFzW8s0




Useful! Thanks



RWright said:


> This explains trimming, a little. Basically it is clicking the levers in lightly so as not to move them the entire distance of a full shift. It only moves the derailleur a shorter distance than the full shift. It can be used to help avoid chain rub and it makes the next click of the shifter engage the shift easier and quicker, racers and other high performance riders use it mainly I think (as well as cross chaining clowns like myself..I am breaking that bad habit slowly but surely ). A lot of newer riders are not really that aware of it I think.
> 
> I had to go out for a while but I was thinking that maybe your cable might just be stretched a little if it has never been adjusted since you got your bike. First thing I would do is see if you have an inline barrel adjuster for the front derailleur and try adjusting that IN SMALL INCREMENTS (1/4 turns) and see if it takes enough slack out of your cable to help. Don't get carried away with the turns.
> 
> If your bike was new when you got it and has never been adjusted since, there is a good chance I think that could be the problem. The above video is a good one and I would even suggest looking at others on youtube as well. If I didn't feel comfortable enough trying to adjust it myself I would take it to a LBS and let them check it out. I would try to watch them if possible.


 
Got it now, thanks for that link  EDIT: Dont got it! I can move my 105 shifter without the click of the gear changing (there is sort of free movement in the shifter lever) but I can't see it doing what the link says, its not permanently moving the derailleur - its moving it but when I let go of the brake lever its moving back. EDIT2: I got it! I was trying to microshift the rear derailleur, only works on the front!! D'oh.



RWright said:


> Whatever trips your trigger there sport . It's your bike


 
Cant imagine blue wheels on silver frames, going to have t stick with boring black.



Pikey said:


> Watch out with upgrading the brakes to 105, the synapse has 57mm drop, dont think the 105's reach that far!


 
Cheers for the heads up



SpokeyDokey said:


> Nomadski I love how your mind wanders from one thing to another!


 
Well I AM Nomad! :P Seriously though, got a lot of things just popped up at the same time, have an itch to upgrade, have a creaky BB30, and it seems now I dont fully understand how shifting works!


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

_* Am I right in thinking the 11 vs 12 tooth on the cassette will give me a little more downhill drive, without losing anything going uphills?_

Any word on this from anyone?


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## e-rider (9 May 2013)

cassettes don't last long so it would be a short-term upgrade anyway!
11T sprocket is unnecessary for most people 
Ultegra 6600 12-27 cassettes are currently £30 from CRC - bargain if you really want one


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

e-rider said:


> cassettes don't last long so it would be a short-term upgrade anyway!
> 11T sprocket is unnecessary for most people
> Ultegra 6600 12-27 cassettes are currently £30 from CRC - bargain if you really want one


 
Am losing out on the uphill tooth though on that cassette, something I really need for Leith Hill!

Would the 11T give me 1 extra harder gear for downhill? I'm finding I'm spinning on the long downhill sections I ride, would like an extra gear, if this would give me that.


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## RWright (9 May 2013)

If you are spinning out get the 11. It will help.


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys, seems a good idea to wait for an enforced upgrade to happen to my existing cassette, would have plumped down the cash if people thought it was a significant upgrade. As it is I went for the Michelin Pro 4 service course tyres x2. Think the constant improvement in rolling will benefit me a little more than 1 extra downhill gearing and maybe a slight improvement in shifting.

Oh and Ive gone with the blue version.


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## e-rider (9 May 2013)

pro 4s are nice tyres, however, one bit of glass and it'll be in the bin!
if you are spinning out 53x12 or even 50x12 then you should enter the tour de france - I suspect you are simply not pedaling fast enough


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## simmi (9 May 2013)

As you know mate I also have a Synapse mine has the 105 cassette in 11-28 this is great for really hilly rides I only ever get in the 50-11 when going down long hills and conversely only ever need the 34-28 for going up very steep hills, as most of my rides are on flattish terrain I find it very hard to get a good cadence with this cassette.
Consequently I am in the process of getting a 12-25 (12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25) 105 cassette which should smooth my cadence out no end.
I will then be able to swap cassette (and chain) depending on the ride I am doing, I did this on my previous bike and it was only a 5-10 minute job.


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## Nomadski (9 May 2013)

simmi said:


> As you know mate I also have a Synapse mine has the 105 cassette in 11-28 this is great for really hilly rides I only ever get in the 50-11 when going down long hills and conversely only ever need the 34-28 for going up very steep hills, as most of my rides are on flattish terrain I find it very hard to get a good cadence with this cassette.
> Consequently I am in the process of getting a 12-25 (12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25) 105 cassette which should smooth my cadence out no end.
> I will then be able to swap cassette (and chain) depending on the ride I am doing, I did this on my previous bike and it was only a 5-10 minute job.


 
Cheers Simmi, useful, especially as we share the same wheels of steel.

What tyres do you have on yours btw?


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## simmi (9 May 2013)

Nomadski said:


> Cheers Simmi, useful, especially as we share the same wheels of steel.
> 
> What tyres do you have on yours btw?


Mine has still got the Mavic Aksion it came with, they are OK other than when you need to remove them, they are by far the tightest tyres I has ever come across (in my limited experience)


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## simmi (9 May 2013)

I love the video by the way he did the front mech in 1 minute flat.
It must have taken me an hour at least to get it right on my lads bike so many variables
(and me an ex-mechanical engineers)


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## Pikey (9 May 2013)

Nomadski said:


> Cheers Simmi, useful, especially as we share the same wheels of steel.
> 
> What tyres do you have on yours btw?



Ally 105 synapse is my new cherished steed, fecking lovely bike innit!

I had the same thoughs re the brakes, but shimano only do an ultegra set which will fit (r650) I think, crc had some in recently.

Ditch those luganos, hated them, they look nice but were slow, I put gatorskins on mine in the end as the local chavs have taken to trying to fill pot holes with broken bottles and most recently staples (wtf?).


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## MickeyBlueEyes (9 May 2013)

simmi said:


> As you know mate I also have a Synapse mine has the 105 cassette in 11-28 this is great for really hilly rides I only ever get in the 50-11 when going down long hills and conversely only ever need the 34-28 for going up very steep hills, as most of my rides are on flattish terrain I find it very hard to get a good cadence with this cassette.
> Consequently I am in the process of getting a 12-25 (12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25) 105 cassette which should smooth my cadence out no end.
> I will then be able to swap cassette (and chain) depending on the ride I am doing, I did this on my previous bike and it was only a 5-10 minute job.


 
I have both an Ultegra 12-25 and an 11-28. As you say, great to swap between depending on terrain. 11-28 for your up's and downs, spin out at just over 50mph on a 50-11 down an 9% grad (would love to try a 53-11) The 16 ring on the 12-25 is nice to sit in when cruising along.



simmi said:


> I love the video by the way he did the front mech in 1 minute flat.
> It must have taken me an hour at least to get it right on my lads bike so many variables
> (and me an ex-mechanical engineers)


 
Yeah I like it, once you try it on your own bike after watchong it it clicks into place how much easier it is than is perceived.


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