# Stove recommendations



## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

In view of the stove advice given by Willem amongst others on the tent recommendations thread I am thinking of purchasing a decent stove so thought I should start a seperate thread to avoid hijacking the tent thread. 

I currently have a single camping gaz burner which is ok for summer touring in the UK and France. However I am thinking of further a field possibly venturing into quite inhospitable remote terrain which could either be too cold or quite hot. I have the impression from Willem that the Trangia range of stoves are the best all round stoves plus they have Duke of Edinburgh Awards approval. But which one?

I have also read on CGOAB that some long term toruing cyclists carry two stoves one for normal use and one for when it gets really cold and as a back up. Unfortunately CGOAB is down at the mo so can't check what makes.

Shall be going into Cambridge tomorrow to have look at a few.

Any pointers or models to avoid would be a great help.

Budget up to £100. 


(Feel free to copy and paste any relevant posts from neighbouring unrelated threads)


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## TheDoctor (23 Aug 2010)

Certainly Trangia have a very good rep - I've got one of the Swedish army knock-offs and the stove part of it is excellent. I suppose it depends how many you're looking to cater for - the 27 UL is fine for one or two, but would struggle at more.
The 25 UL comes with the same number of pans, but bigger ones.
If you're going for really cold, then a petrol stove might work better, but I've never used one, so I don't know for sure.
Hope this helps.


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## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> Certainly Trangia have a very good rep - I've got one of the Swedish army knock-offs and the stove part of it is excellent. I suppose it depends how many you're looking to cater for - the 27 UL is fine for one or two, but would struggle at more.
> The 25 UL comes with the same number of pans, but bigger ones.
> If you're going for really cold, then a petrol stove might work better, but I've never used one, so I don't know for sure.
> Hope this helps.



Thanks for your reply. 

Catering will be for 1 or 2 although who knows who might pop by.

I think my main requirements are fuel type, getting a stove with the most versatility in all temperatures and conditions, ease of use and obtaining the fuel. I would go for pressurised liquid gas cannisters as being relatively easy to obtain in Europe, but am put off that the gas cannisters might be hard to get elswhere and freeze at temperatures below zero which might mean not having a hot meal on a cold mountain night or porridge the following morning.

Of course being toward end of season now in the UK I might be able to pick up a bargain.

sgw on the tent recommendations thread has posted an excellent zen of stoves link. 

http://zenstoves.net/


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## rualexander (23 Aug 2010)

If you are going to 'inhospitable remote terrain' then you would be best with a multi-fuel type stove as availability of fuels will be a concern. You could get a Trangia system initially then when you do venture to far flung places get the compatible multi-fuel burner, although that is probably an expensive route to take.


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## TheDoctor (23 Aug 2010)

No worries.
I can lend you the afore-mentioned Swedish thing if you'd like a play, they're dirt-cheap on Ebay.
Think it cost me around £8 or so.


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## vernon (23 Aug 2010)

The Trangia is my stove of choice. I've used it in all weathers and I haven't come across a UK temperature at which it won't work.

Duke of Edinburgh Award approval is more to do with safety than performance. A Trangia is very stable and should meths get spillled and ignited, it's easily extinguished with water. 

I have a camping Gaz stove that used screw on cartridges and although it does a competent job, its efficiency in windy weather is impaired without an improvised wind shield.

The 25 is the one to go for if for no other reason than having spare capacity. I don't have a kettle and don't miss it. Boiling water in one of the pans does the job just as well.

Don't get a Mini Trangia they have very limited capacity and are really for ultra lightweight expeditions. I have one and it's not very stable. The burner gets so hot that the meths boils and it is in need of a windshield - the burner housing is inadequate as one.


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## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

rualexander said:


> If you are going to 'inhospitable remote terrain' then you would be best with a *multi-fuel type stove* as availability of fuels will be a concern. You could get a Trangia system initially then when you do venture to far flung places get the compatible multi-fuel burner, although that is probably an expensive route to take.




Ah ................ I thought stoves were specific to one type of fuel but if there is a make that will burn any fuel then I am interested. Mind I can't see a liquified gas stove burning anything other than liquified gas as the stove attaches directly to the canister. A petrol stove sounds a nice idea but in practice I don't really want to have to carry the stuff around on safety grounds but also because the smell and vapour eventually permeates eveything making them pretty dangerous. I know a few stupid mechanics who have no eyebrows.


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## Crackle (23 Aug 2010)

If it goes below zero, you have to sleep with your meths bottle in your sleeping bag (Trangia), apart from that, excellent and simple valley stove but not light.


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## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> The Trangia is my stove of choice. I've used it in all weathers and I haven't come across a UK temperature at which it won't work.
> 
> Duke of Edinburgh Award approval is more to do with safety than performance. A Trangia is very stable and should meths get spillled and ignited, it's easily extinguished with water.
> 
> ...



Thanks some really good tips. Fortunately my tent has a pretty good porch offering good wind shielding so think I will try and continue with my Camping Gaz stove. The only problem with this is stability really. One can always find a few rocks to place around the cannister to stop it toppling. Plus I have a mind to carry several thin ali sheets in my panniers to act ass extra windshields if need be.

A Trangia stove is one of the makes I am seriously considering. I think a few shops in Cambridge stock them. Also on the list is MSR but again like Trangia not sure which model would be most suitable. Any models to AVOID is probably the best advice at the moment.


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## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

Thanks all for the advice and tips.

Sleeping with a bottle of meths might give the wrong impression, but then again if one is in a cold remote location ...... who would know. I think temptation to have swig might be hardest to resist .....  .


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## vernon (23 Aug 2010)

Crankarm said:


> Thanks all for the advice and tips.
> 
> Sleeping with a bottle of meths might give the wrong impression, but then again if one is in a cold remote location ...... who would know. I think temptation to have swig might be hardest to resist .....  .



Now then if you want to have a multifunction fuel - Wray and Nephew white cane spirit is drinkable but its performance as a stove fuel is compromised by its relatively low, at 70%, alcohol content. It does work - I've tried it


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## Crankarm (23 Aug 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> No worries.
> I can lend you the afore-mentioned Swedish thing if you'd like a play, they're dirt-cheap on Ebay.
> Think it cost me around £8 or so.



A kind offer. Shall do a little more research first though. Thanks anyway.


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## Anthony (23 Aug 2010)

I have the MSR whisperlite international (£60ish). If your looking for something that will burn the most kinds of fuels and works in any condition this is pretty much the best thing to go for. But it's flame is very powerful, so getting something to simmer is quite an art. Also it takes a few mintues to get the flame going (as you have to release a bit of fuel into the cup and burn it off to build up the heat).


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## Crankarm (24 Aug 2010)

Anthony said:


> I have the MSR whisperlite international (£60ish). If your looking for something that will burn the most kinds of fuels and works in any condition this is pretty much the best thing to go for. But it's flame is very powerful, so getting something to simmer is quite an art. Also it takes a few mintues to get the flame going (as you have to release a bit of fuel into the cup and burn it off to build up the heat).



I think a few doing long tours who write on CGOAB use these stoves.


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## Crankarm (24 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> The Trangia is my stove of choice. I've used it in all weathers and I haven't come across a UK temperature at which it won't work.
> 
> Duke of Edinburgh Award approval is more to do with safety than performance. A Trangia is very stable and should meths get spillled and ignited, it's easily extinguished with water.
> 
> ...



The Trangia 25 series is for cooking for 3-4 people and the 27 series for 1-2 people? Trangia also does a multi-fuel attachment weighing about 500g.

http://www.trangia.se/english/


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## psmiffy (24 Aug 2010)

I have cycled all over Europe - from northern Norway to Southern Greece - Western Ireland to Estonia and have never run out of canister gas

I have used it in tempertures as low as -10°C - it is there first thing in the morning to light for my morning coffee before I get out of my sleeping bag - I eat well and do not resort to dried or dehydrated food 

Out of Europe multifuel is probably the best bet - Otherwise even in "unhospitable" places you still have to buy fuel somewhere - I have always managed to find gas and therefore it is my choice


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## Ticktockmy (24 Aug 2010)

Anthony said:


> I have the MSR whisperlite international (£60ish). If your looking for something that will burn the most kinds of fuels and works in any condition this is pretty much the best thing to go for. But it's flame is very powerful, so getting something to simmer is quite an art. Also it takes a few mintues to get the flame going (as you have to release a bit of fuel into the cup and burn it off to build up the heat).



I use the MSR XGK II multifuel stove, which is really for basecamp use. designed to melt snow, still light enough to carry when I am in far off lands, as with the rest of the MSR range of multi fuel stoves it will burn most types of fuel availble, including cooking oil. Its downside is like all the Multi fuels stoves including those of different makes is that they take a minute or so to prime and get up to heat, also they can be a bugger to control the simmer rate, again depending what fuel you use. Also for those who are old enouch and wise enouch can remember the Primus stoves, then they work on the same principles, and make as much noise, my XGK sound like a jet fighter when it running.


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## Tim Bennet. (24 Aug 2010)

The endorsement of Trangia's by the D of E is about their suitability for use by beginners and their ease of maintenance as communally owned equipment. They have no moving parts, they are stable in use, can be used outside by those who aren't allowed to cook inside a tent, and there's only one dangerous thing you can do with them - that's refill the burner while it is still alight. 

But that doesn't make them an ideal stove for your requirements, unless you're a juvenile idiot who can't be trusted with something hot and have the mechanical nous of a chimp.


Gas stoves are by far and away the best choice for anywhere in Europe, they are fast, convenient and controllable. The ones with the burners separate from the container are also supremely stable. If you're winter camping, then the propane/butane mix will work. Despite the 'advances' of the newer types of resealable cartridges, the piercable camping gas canisters are still by far and away the most universal type of fuel available. Make sure you have at least an adapter to use these.

Once you leave Europe then the flexibility of use of a 'multifuel' stove might be an advantage. If it's a clean fuel area (such as parts of southern Africa, middle East and the USA), then the MSR Whisperlite International is quiet and efficient and will be easy to look after. As you go to places with dirtier fuel (Parts of China, Mongolia and countries along the Silk route), then a simpler stove like the MSR XKG will be easier to maintain and less fussy about contaminants. (But the simple 'roarer' burners are noising to live with!). If the fuel is really crap, don't use your stove; punch some large holes around the rim of an old bean tin, half fill it with sand, soak in petrol and light.

If you're going somewhere really cold where your only source of water is melting snow, then take two MSR XKGs. 

Finally don't be tempted to use these 'heat capture' things that clamp round your pots. Even on winter trips melting snow for all the drinking water, they never saved their weight in fuel on trips of less than 14 days between re-supplies.


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## willem (24 Aug 2010)

It does indeed all start with the choice of fuel, and that is first and foremost determined by where you go and in what climate. I think for third world use, at low temperatures and for larger quantities the multifuel stove is the stove of choice. These are the smelly spidery contraptions connected to a separate fuel bottle by a hose. They are the descendents of the old Primus parafin oil stoves of yesteryear, and of the similar looking petrol stoves. The two important modern innovations have been that these no longer have a large bronze pressure vessel, but use a separate metal fuel bottle. That makes them rather lighter. The second innovation is that almost all of them are now multifuel, meaning that they can use petrol of various kinds (but preferably not car petrol), paraffin oil, or even Diesel (in an emergency). Some new Primus models can even use gas cannisters of the threaded valve type. There are also disadvantages. They mostly do not simmer very well, although some are better than others. They are also a bit smelly because of the fuels you use, and they are fiddly. They are heavier than most alternatives, they clog up with dirty fuel, they need maintenance, and they need to be adjusted while you are cooking. But you can get fuel everywhere, they work a treat at really low temperatures, and they are hot. If you need to melt snow in the Andes, this is the way to go.
Gas cannisters have all the obvious advantages of low weight and convenience. The lightest ones are those that you fit on top of the cannister. They are primarily for solo use in nicer weather. The Snowpeak 100 has consistently come out best in Backpackinglight tests. The biggest disadvantage is fuel availability, as a result of the proliferation of three different types of cannisters. The puncture type are easiest to get, but a bit heavy and clumsy (you cannot disconnect them) and because they are not 100 % safe. Of the valved cannisters there are two types, with the threaded Lindall valve (Optimus, Primus, Coleman and just about everyone), and the click on valved cannisters sold by Camping Gaz. The problem is that in France you cannot really get the threaded canisters, and France is an important destination fo rmany. There are two solutions. The first is to get a multi standard burner, such as made by MSR and now also Primus. The second solution is to get an adapter, such as those made by Edelrid (there are different types, such as puncture to threaded - heavy but useful, or click to threaded, less versatile but lighter). The second problem with gas stoves is their low temperature performance. The solution is what is called liquid feed, where you invert the cannister, and feed liquid gas rather than gas gas. Of course, this demands a different and rather heavier construction with the cannister next to the burner, and connected by a hose. The good news is of course that these stoves are also much more stable, and can use bigger and heavier pots. It is important that such liquid feed can only be done safely (and this is very important) if the the burner has a pre heating loop. Jetboil and others have now also introduced more efficient integrated systems (following in the footsteps of the Trangia), but these are heavy and best suitable for boiling water rather than cooking a real meal. The Primus Eta Express has dangeously high levels of CO emissions.
The third type are the meths stoves. The beauty is that in Europe and the US (HEET fuel line de-icer) meths is almost always easy to get, and cheap. They are also relativley safe stoves as meths does not explode. Meths stoves have no moving parts, cannot get clogged up, or whatever. They are the most reliable stoves you can get, and with a small pre heating cup they will work to below freezing (not at really low temperatures). The central downside is that meths does not contain as much energy as other fuels, so you will use more of it (but you can get it everywhere) and since the flame is not very hot, you need to use it as efficiently as you can. Hence the design of the enclosed stove and windscreen. As a consequence, it is relatively heavy. Trangia have tried to solve this to some extent by introducing a new UL (ultralight version that uses stronger and thinner material, and this has helped quite a bit. So get the UL version (the cut price offers are usually still the heavier models). Trangia have also introduced two additional surface treatments. The first is a teflon coating for non stick purposes. This is heavier and wears, of course. You may consider it for the frying pan (you can buy a new one seperately when it is worn). For the other pots and the windscreen, and perhaps also for the frying pan, there is also the more expensive hard anodized surface. This is also somewhat non-stick, cleans easily, and will last longer. Unless you are on a tight budghet I suggest you take this, with either the HA frying pan or the teflon one, depending on your priorities. The normal Trangia comes in two sizes (forget about the Trangia mini, it does not have the special windscreen). Trangia says the Trangia 27 is for 1-2 people, and the larger Trangia 25 for 3-4. I think that is too optimistic. Unless in a pinch, I would not use the Trangia 27 for two, and similarly, I would not use the Trangia 25 for more than 2-3. I think they are solo and duo stoves respectively. The weight difference is relatively small, but small differences have big consequences if there are enough of them.
Trangia also offer two alternative burners, a 178 gram gas cannister burner for threaded valves (with preheating loop). This increases the weight by only 68 grams, but the gas fuel is lighter. This makes sense in the Trangia 25, but less so in the 27, I think. Trangia also have a multifuel burner. The old one was a special version of the Optimus Nova (but you could also adapt the original Nova) and now a Primus one that can even use gas cannisters. I have the Nova for the Trangia, and occasionally use it in the Trangia 25. It is enormously powerful, and I would only use it in the Trangia 25. It just does not make sense for smaller solo quantities, and I doubt it would get enough oxygen in the 27 (did not try it, however). It makes for a rather heavier set up, of course. My Trangia 25 UL with Nova weighs 240 grams more than the meths Trangia 25. Looking at it differently, using the 325 gram Trangia 25 stand and windcreen instead of the original 125 gram Nova stand (that you remove for use in the Trania) is 200 grams heavier than the Nova without any windscreen. So in this application think of the Trangia as a 100-150 gram heavier but better windscreen than a 50-100 gram sheet of foil. In the Trangia 27 the difference would be even less, of course (50-75 gram), but as I said I doubt if this makes much sense and will work quite so well (any done this?).
The Trangia pots deserve a special mention, because they can be bought separately, and they are great. They are relatively cheap, and weigh as little as your average titanium pots. See http://www.trangia.s...0eng%202010.pdf Their heat dispersing properties are much better, however. So you could buy a Trangia set, use it when meths seems the best fuel, and use the pots with a small gas stove when you need the lightest gear, or a multifuel stove when that is what you need. If you need the lot, get a Trangia 25 with multifuel burner.
There are also lightweight meths alternatives. Many are very light but not very practical. I think the Clikstand and the Caldera cone are the two most useful ones, as they effectively save you some 200 grams with an alternative windshield. The Clikstand is the heavier one, but I think also the more practical one. A Clikstand with windscreen, original Trangia burner, one pot and one frying pan would be some 400 grams.
I hope this helps.
Willem


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## smeg (24 Aug 2010)

I use an Optimus Crux Lite (uses screw-in type canisters), Gear-Zone seem to be selling them for a good price, I paid more for mine off Webtogs but got free p&p. It's very light and has a wide burner which is means more even heat distribution and less chance of food sticking to the bottom of the pan and burning, which is easily done depending what you're cooking using lightweight pans - I hate it when that happens it's also very difficult to clean burnt stuff off the bottom of the pan, usually means leaving it in soak overnight. The only thing I don't like about it is it doesn't seem so great control-wise if you want it turned down very low for simmering etc, it's easy to put it out completely and having to relight it, which is a pain in the ass. It's still a great little stove though. The MSR Pocket Rocket was the other one I was considering before purchasing the Crux Lite. I'm not sure which is the better of the two.


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## Amanda P (24 Aug 2010)

We use a Trangia or an MSR Dragonfly.

The Trangia is light and packs very neatly, but it's a bit slow and meths can be hard to find. It's also difficult to get it to light when it's really cold - sleeping with the bottle is good advice. Meths in some parts of the world is really smelly, and the smell never comes out of clothes.

The slow isn't a problem - it's a matter of routine. When setting up camp, set it going before you do anything else. Then when the tent's up, the water for your tea will just be boiling. Similarly in the morning, light the stove first thing, then pack up while it's boiling.

We got the MSR because it will go on virtually any liquid fuel. It's a pain to spend valuable holiday time searching for meths or gas canisters in foreign parts, but it's always easy to find petrol stations. We've had it going on heating oil, diesel and petrol, but usually use petrol. You can buy petrol or diesel pretty much anywhere, and it's cheap. There are no empty cannisters to carry or to fill up landfills.

It's true that petrol isn't particularly pleasant stuff, but here's what we do: fill a 1l fuel bottle at a petrol station (never had a problem doing this, despite the "minimum 2l delivery" notices. If they want to charge me for 2l, that's fine. It's still cheap). The bottle lives in a bottle cage on my bike, with the pump in place. Once filled, we don't need to ever open the bottle until it's empty again, so you never come into contact with any petrol, and if it should leak, it will be away from clothes etc.

It will light in any weather, hot or cold. It burns very hot on full blast and will boil as fast as an electric kettle. I have no problem getting it to simmer. Running on petrol, the jet blocks from time to time, but a little shake usually cures it, or failing that a five-minute take-it-apart-blow-it-out-and-put-it-back-together has always fixed it. MSR sell all the parts as spares, and it comes with a pack of spare parts and a jet pricker.

It's not cheap, but the time we've saved NOT hunting for hardware shops that sell gas or meths has made it well worth it.

Oh, and flying with gas or any fuel is troublesome. Having to buy it when you arrive is dead easy if you just want petrol.


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## andym (24 Aug 2010)

No such thing as a perfect stove. I think if you're going really off the beaten track then it's worth considering having more than one system: ie multi-fuel plus alcohol as a backup (there are some really light ones) in case your multi-gas stove gets blocked etc and you've run out of spares or whatever.

But can I also enter a plea for the wood-gas stove? (eg Bush Buddy/Bush Cooker etc). OK not for everyone, but perfectly feasible and practical, and there's something very satisfying about a 'real' fire. Would work well in tandem with another cooking system - either as the main system or as backup.


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## andrew_s (24 Aug 2010)

Uncle Phil said:


> Oh, and flying with gas or any fuel is troublesome. Having to buy it when you arrive is dead easy if you just want petrol.


It's not unknown for the stoves to be confiscated. 
Best to make sure that there's no residual smell of fuel at all, so at least you stand some chance of arguing if they check.


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## Amanda P (24 Aug 2010)

andrew_s said:


> It's not unknown for the stoves to be confiscated.
> Best to make sure that there's no residual smell of fuel at all, so at least you stand some chance of arguing if they check.



That's true. I generally rinse out the MSR fuel bottle, and the stove, with hot water and detergent, so it doesn't smell, and have had no trouble yet. It's good practice to remove the stopper of any fuel bottle before you fly, so that on X-ray they can clearly see it's empty.


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## bigjim (24 Aug 2010)

If you want to have a play around with a meths stove for almost nothing try one of these [media]http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html#Safety[/media] They really do work but only really for boiling water.


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## Crankarm (24 Aug 2010)

A huge thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply whether a short or longer post. What has clearly emerged and I guess was self evident when I posed the question that there is clearly no perfect stove. There are literally 101 types of stove on which to cook a cat.

My thoughts are at present a Trangia 25-6 UL non stick stove with a gas burner attachment. I am thinking non-stick as I'm not sure how non-stick and durable the hard anodised finish will actually be so will plump for the genuine non-stick finish which is only an additional 115g heavier. I don't feel comfortable cooking with bare aluminium what with Alzheimers and dementia scares. My nan used old aluminium pans all her life and she lost her marbles in the end. Very sad.

But the main reason I am considering a Trangia stove is because of their apparent wind shielding properties and stability. Also Trangia do a *Multi Fuel Burner inc Fuel Bottle & Pump* as an additional accessory which I might well purchase when I plan to go further a field, however, the cheapest I can find this is at an eye watering cost of £120 on it's own or £150 including either a 25 or 27 UL stove. So it is not cheap.

Currently I have a basic £10 single gas burner attachment that screws into the top of a Camping Gaz canister with a motley assortment of ali bowls and a small frying pan to cook with. One of the probs of a single gas canister with burner screwed in the top, as I'm sure everyone is aware, is stability and the risk of having an accident and also picking one's baked beans out of the dirt or grass.

The only down side I can see for the Trangia stove is the relatively low heating power of meths or spirit as a fuel compared to gas or petrol. I don't fancy sleeping with a bottle of meths when it becomes cold either. So if I buy the Trangia I will use it primarily with the gas burner attachment to fit to a separate gas canister, an additional £45 not including the gas canister. I also found out today that Coleman, Primus and MSR gas canisters have a different fitting to the Camping Gaz canisters widely available in France. Typical of the French.

I will probably get the Trangia stove in the next couple of days. So all told it will cost about £100 which was my budget. I'll also try and get a spare meths burner, as once filled it will burn for approximately 25 mins according to Trangia before running out and needing a refil. So a 2nd burner to continue cooking would be a good idea rather than waiting for it to cool to refill and resume cooking which would mean the food would be cold again.

At the same place where I plan to buy the Trangia stove they also have an MSR Whisperlite stove on sale for about £30-35 less than elsewhere so might buy this as a back up stove as MSR say it can burn white gas, kerosene or unleaded petrol so this might tick the box for the off the beaten track stove. It is a much cheaper option than spending a further £120 on the Trangia multi fuel burner accessory which I suspect is an ever so slight rip off.

As regards destinations, before the winter is here, deepest Wales is on the cards and also maybe Morocco if I can afford it £££ and time - the Atlas Mountains. But maybe Wales or the Norfolk coast will be all that I get to see before the year is out.

But next year a much more substantial bike ride ............

Anyway if out in the back of beyond, hungry, tired, cold, wet and thoroughly fed up, a Burger King/KFC/MacDonalds comes clearly into view, then deciding whether to give it a miss and set up camp and cook my own, might not be quite so appealing, new stove or not ............

Travelling in countries or on continents where food is plentiful and dirt cheap one doesn't really need a stove .........

Hopefully there will be more posts of good advice and experience using stoves on the road.

Thanks again for everyones' inputs.


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## the_mikey (25 Aug 2010)

I've used a Coleman petrol stove, it's brilliantly hot to work with but you do need to carry around a can of petrol with you when you use one. They're not particularly compact either, but again, they're wonderfully quick when boiling a kettle!


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## vernon (25 Aug 2010)

Crankarm said:


> I will probably get the Trangia stove in the next couple of days. So all told it will cost about £100 which was my budget. I'll also try and get a spare meths burner, as once filled it will burn for approximately 25 mins according to Trangia before running out and needing a refil. So a 2nd burner to continue cooking would be a good idea rather than waiting for it to cool to refill and resume cooking which would mean the food would be cold again.



There's no need for a second burner. When there's any sgn of the fuel running out in the burner; remove the pan, extinguish the flame with snuffer lid, remove the snuffer lid, carefully refill the burner then relight and replace the pan. The evaporation of some of the meths combined with the conduction of heat from the burner by the colder liquid meths renders the operation safe.


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## rich p (25 Aug 2010)

bigjim said:


> If you want to have a play around with a meths stove for almost nothing try one of these [media]http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html#Safety[/media] They really do work but only really for boiling water.




That is one of the most entertaining reads I've seen! Brilliant.


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## Ticktockmy (25 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> There's no need for a second burner. When there's any sgn of the fuel running out in the burner; remove the pan, extinguish the flame with snuffer lid, remove the snuffer lid, carefully refill the burner then relight and replace the pan. The evaporation of some of the meths combined with the conduction of heat from the burner by the colder liquid meths renders the operation safe.



Bad practice that, I saw someone do that, thought the flame was out as he could not see it, in went the new fuel and up he went and his tent also, a very nasty experiance for him and the rest of us.


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## willem (25 Aug 2010)

A few last comments. Indeed do not buy a second meths burner. You will not need it, and it will be useless. You will burn your fingers trying to replace it. And really do not refill until it has cooled down. Accidents have happened. It will cool down very quickly, however. As for surface treatment, the HA is pretty non stick, and should solve your (I believe imagined) issue with bare alluminium. The hard anodized is much stronger than the teflon non stick. You can scrape it and it will not budge. You could buy the version with the non stick frying pan and the rest in hard anodized (look at the Trangia website for the many versions).
As for multifuel burners, most that I see on UK sites are still the older Optimus Nova burner rather than the new Primus one that also burns cannisters. However, enough people have succeeded in fitting other burners such as from MSR in a Trangia 25. You may need the special Trangia cup to fit them into (will look for the part number if you are interested). Google to find other people's experiences with this.
As for the gas burner, I have asked both Trangia and Primus (who make it) and they have no plans to introduce a dual valve version. So if you go to France, take an Edelrid adapter.
Bon appetit,
Willem


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## battered (25 Aug 2010)

There is as you say no perfect stove. I have a collection. I bought my first, a small Trangia, in 1982 (I think). I still have it and use the pans now and again, though I have others. I last used the kettle for it on Sunday, so I can't agree with the advice not to buy the one with the kettle. Sure you can boil water for tea in a pan but not when the pan is full of food.

Modern Trangias have a gas onversion. You can also cut a hole for a Petrol stove (MSR type), I have and it's great, but the smaller Trangia is too small and the whole thing gets very hot.

Trangias are simple, reliable, nice to use and safe but s-l-o-o-o-w. Imitation Trangias are worse still,if you get one of these you are paying for the stand/heatshield and pans, dump the burner. Meths isn't cheap.

Petrol stoves are fastest, fuel is cheap, you can get it anywhere but the disadvantages are that things like MSRs are too dangerous to use in a tent unless you are VERY careful, they are a shoot to control, they stink and are filthy. They need servicing, I have one (an Internationale, will burn petrol, paraffin, diesel, you name it) that I need to service, it hasn't worked properly for about 2 years now. For melting snow they are the business, but I've seen a Trangia boil water in the time taken for an MSR to get cleaned out and running properly. I think they are suited to remote trekking where their robustness and high heat capacity is a winner. More complex petrol stoves are more controllable but a bit more choosy about fuel.

Gas stoves are great, I have a couple, clean, reliable, easy, fuel a bit pricey and not available otside Europe. As regards French idiosyncrasies, the Camping Gaz bleuet (with the pierce top) came first, Epigaz type screw valves are a recent thing. They are better though as when they are half empty you can change them for a new one and extra heat. Butane doesn't like cold weather, you need a pro/bu mix.

Don't try taking ANY liquid fuel on a flight, you'll get shot. Any liquid fuel stove or bottle must be spotless and dry before flying.

I travel with a solid fuel stove as a backup. They weigh very little, they are dirt cheap and bulletproof. The Army use them as even the thickest squaddie can work out how to get one lit and boil up water for a hot meal or a tea. For an extended trek they are near useless, the fuel doesn't last long and works out expensive. That said, when you've just got off a plane, you have no petrol or meths and you want a brew, they do a job. 

I wouldn't want to use any camp stove that relied on twigs as fuel in the UK. It's just too wet. Spain, California, sure. Dry sticks in every hedge bottom. England? Yeah, right.

Enough of the blather, what do I *use*? An Epigas Alpine gas stove with an MSR ally heat shield. Trangia pans and kettle. Petrol stove when I'm in the sticks and/or need serious heat to melt snow. Crappy solid fuel job when all else fails or to light the BBQ.


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## andrew_s (25 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> > There's no need for a second burner. When there's any sgn of the fuel running out in the burner; remove the pan, extinguish the flame with snuffer lid, remove the snuffer lid, carefully refill the burner then relight and replace the pan. The evaporation of some of the meths combined with the conduction of heat from the burner by the colder liquid meths renders the operation safe.
> 
> 
> Bad practice that, I saw someone do that, thought the flame was out as he could not see it, in went the new fuel and up he went and his tent also, a very nasty experiance for him and the rest of us.


It's probably safest to remove the burner from the windshield/support before refilling it. 
That way, if it's still alight you'll burn your fingers rather than set the tent on fire.


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## zacklaws (25 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> Bad practice that, I saw someone do that, thought the flame was out as he could not see it, in went the new fuel and up he went and his tent also, a very nasty experiance for him and the rest of us.



Its one of the problems with using meth's, it burns with a blue flame and at times, especially in bright light, it can be hard to see if the Trangia is lit, and if you spill some and it evapourates and the vapour stays close to the ground, you may not notice that it too has ignited.


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## Crankarm (25 Aug 2010)

I now have new appliances to play with  .

A Trangia 25-6 UL stove with non stick pans and kettle £42 plus Trangia gas burner £34, 1.4kg, (Fuel - Meths, spirits and butane/propane gas canisters), total £76 reduced from £100 (£55 + £45).

Trangia 1 litre red fuel bottle £10. 

MSR Whisperlite Multifuel Stove, 440g, (Fuel - white gas, parafin, kerosene, petrol, NOT diesel). £40.50 reduced from £79.99.

Primus Express Spider, 240g, (Fuel - butane/propane gas canisters), £13.50 reduced from £41.99.

4 butane/propane canisters - Primus and MSR £11.

Sharp Oven/Combi Microwave 18kg, £115.


I'm looking forward to my first bowl of porridge, fry up and spag bog  . 

The weekend weather is set fine so they might all get used.


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## battered (26 Aug 2010)

Great prices there Crankarm, where from? 

I fancy the combi microvawe, if I can get it in the pannier and run it off a dynamo, it might be eaier and cleaner than my old MSR.


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## Ticktockmy (26 Aug 2010)

Good prices, I though the MSR Whisperlite Multifuel Stove used to have a speicial extra nozzle so you could use Diesel, maybe they have dropped it, as maybe burning modern Diesel with all it's additives, produce cancerous emmisions. The best bit of kit I have from the Trangia stable is the Kettle, the stove got junked years ago, but the kettle lives on.

May I recommend Wayfares boil in the bag meals, No I dont have shares in the company, but for conveniance they are hard to beat. Being a lazy or as some say a wise old bugger, I like nothing better in the morning than to fester in my maggot, looking at people struggling to cook breakfast, more so when its peeing down with rain or snow. 

All I have is a billy of water on the stove the boil in the bag breakfast (Of which there are a few choices) in the water let it boil for a few minutes , bag out, tea brewing. just slit open the bag and eat the contents, maybe add some pepper (900 Kcal worth of energy).
Net result only 1 billy of water required to make both tea or coffee and cook the meal, no washing up, and just one small pouch to bin and one spoon to lick clean, all done and dusted in less than 10 minutes or less.


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## Arch (26 Aug 2010)

Crankarm said:


> I'm looking forward to my first bowl of porridge, fry up and spag bog  .



That's quite an interesting combination in one bowl!  

I did once mix mashed banana into my Christmas dinner as a baby though, so I'll try anything...


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## Llama (26 Aug 2010)

I've got an MSR pocket rocket - its great really light come in a strong plactic box. got it for £30 from decathlon

now i havent got one of these but I am thinking about getting one:
Honey Stove

it looks great, you can just take three bits,or all five, it will run on anything that burns! You can even put a meths burner in the bottom. seems liek a great idea to me. and its £35

want one of these to - bit heavy for hiking though!
Optimus hiker


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## Arch (26 Aug 2010)

That honey stove looks neat....


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## Crankarm (26 Aug 2010)

battered said:


> Great prices there Crankarm, where from?
> 
> I fancy the combi microvawe, if I can get it in the pannier and run it off a dynamo, it might be eaier and cleaner than my old MSR.



Blacks.

See my recommendation in the similar tents thread for an uber bargain - Vaude Taurus Ultralight tent, 2 man, 1.95kg, *£135.00* down from £275. Get a further 10% off with their discount card. It's on their website. Not sure if price applies in store. Yesterday the Cambridge store had two in stock at £199.00 IIRC but maybe they have now been reduced to £135 or you may have to haggle to get the price in store that's on their web site. They said all tents have to go by end of this weekend.


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## battered (26 Aug 2010)

The honey stove does indeed look neat but it's just a folding tin. You could manufacture something to do the same job for nothing using a food can of the right size and a tin opener. The difficulty in the UK is finding something that you can persuade to burn without leaving it under a roof for 6 months first!

I think I'm going to build a cat stove or a penny stove from a few old tins and see what it's like.

Re the MSR, you need a bigger jet for heavier fuels like kero and diesel. Kero's OK. I never tried diesel in mine, it would take great care and skill to avoid contaminating your food and everything in your bag with the stuff. Once it's on your clothes, it's there to stay and the odour will remain until you put them in the bin. Foul stuff. That said I don't think the fumes from it when used in a stove are any more harmful than any other petroleum fuel.


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## Crankarm (26 Aug 2010)

battered said:


> The honey stove does indeed look neat but it's just a folding tin. You could manufacture something to do the same job for nothing using a food can of the right size and a tin opener. The difficulty in the UK is finding something that you can persuade to burn without leaving it under a roof for 6 months first!
> 
> I think I'm going to build a cat stove or a penny stove from a few old tins and see what it's like.
> 
> Re the MSR, you need a bigger jet for heavier fuels like kero and diesel. Kero's OK. *I never tried diesel in mine, it would take great care and skill to avoid contaminating your food and everything in your bag with the stuff. Once it's on your clothes, it's there to stay and the odour will remain until you put them in the bin. Foul stuff*. That said I don't think the fumes from it when used in a stove are any more harmful than any other petroleum fuel.



Indeed, that's why I have no interest in using it as a fuel to cook with.


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## battered (26 Aug 2010)

Just looked at the Blacks site, none of those items are there at those prices, either under stoves or clearance. You sure it was Blacks?


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## vernon (26 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> Bad practice that, I saw someone do that, thought the flame was out as he could not see it, in went the new fuel and up he went and his tent also, a very nasty experiance for him and the rest of us.



Not really. Re-read what I wrote. 

I don't refill the burner if I think that the flame is out. 
I use the snuffer to extinguish the flame.
Removing the snuffer gives a tactile indication that the flame is out i.e. no burning sensation.
I refill the burner when I know it is out. 

In addition I never have the stove inside my tent's footprint. I consider that practice to be too risky.


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## Crankarm (26 Aug 2010)

battered said:


> Just looked at the Blacks site, none of those items are there at those prices, either under stoves or clearance. *You sure it was Blacks*?



Errr ................... quite sure .

Blacks store in Cambridge. But the MSR Whisperlite and Primus Express Spider were reduced to clear so was probably a clearance item particular to the store. Couldn't see anything wrong with them except some scrote had nicked the fuel filter tube from the pump of the Whisperlite so the sales guy just took one off a neighbouring MSR Dragonfly pump. The Primus Express Spider is complete. I'm particularly chuffed with this find. But proof will be in the pudding.

The prices on their Trangia stoves are the lowest I have seen. £54.99 for the 25-6 UL non stick pans + kettle is pretty good plus a further 10% off. £84 for the 25-8 UL hard anodised finish pans + kettle plus 10% off. I think the basic Trangia 25-2 UL aluminium finish pans and kettle was about £30-35. 

Odd numbers ie 25-1, 25-3, 25-5, 25-7 no kettle.
Even numbers ie 25-2, 25-4, 25-6, 25-8 comes with kettle.

I don't know where your nearest Blacks is, but it might be worth paying them a visit if you need anything.

I will need to go back on saturday as they had run out of MSR bottles yesterday. 

Blacks in Peterborough is ok, not as good IMHO as the Cambridge store.


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## battered (26 Aug 2010)

I'm in Leeds, we have a Blacks iirc, their prices on gas bottles look good too.

TBH I need another camping stove like a hole in the head, but that price for the Whisperlite Inter is sensational. *Used* MSRs go for better than £40 on Fleabay. New the best I can find is £60. What I realy need to do though is service my existing XGK, filthy and unreliable thing as it is. I'll also have a ferret through my other stoves, my old Trangia could do with a run out. I like using the Trangia, the best thing about it is filling the kettle the night before so all you need to do first thing is take the lid off the burner and drop a match in, then have a snooze. The kettle lid rattling will tell you it's tea time.


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## bigjim (26 Aug 2010)

I've found the cat stove works a treat. But there again I also like the esbit and I have no problem finding a few dry twigs to add to it. Does not take many to boil a pot. Old pine twigs go a treat and they are pretty dry at the base of the tree.


battered said:


> I'm in Leeds, we have a Blacks iirc, their prices on gas bottles look good too.
> 
> TBH I need another camping stove like a hole in the head, but that price for the Whisperlite Inter is sensational. *Used* MSRs go for better than £40 on Fleabay. New the best I can find is £60. What I realy need to do though is service my existing XGK, filthy and unreliable thing as it is. I'll also have a ferret through my other stoves, my old Trangia could do with a run out. I like using the Trangia, the best thing about it is filling the kettle the night before so all you need to do first thing is take the lid off the burner and drop a match in, then have a snooze. The kettle lid rattling will tell you it's tea time.


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## battered (26 Aug 2010)

That's probably fair TBH. I haven't ever tried chucking the odd twig in with hexy stoves, but as you say it can't do any harm. As you suggest unless it is actually raining at the time then a pine twig will probably burn. I suspect I'm coming at this from the wrong angle, I've been a lifelong mountaineer and we generally end up camping away from trees, either at altitde or in mountain areas where it's often wet. Crack out the petrol stove lads, twigs aren't an option. 

In lowland areas in the summer it may well be different, I ought to give it a try.


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## Ticktockmy (26 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> Not really. Re-read what I wrote.
> 
> I don't refill the burner if I think that the flame is out.
> I use the snuffer to extinguish the flame.
> ...



The point I was trying to make whilst you are obviously a wise soul, there are others who are not so wise to know that Meths in the right condition whilst alight is invisible. Hence whilst you have had much practice at following your procedure, it can be unwise to pass the information on in writing much better to demonstrate it so people see and understand the pitfalls more the better.


The guy who got burnt was not in his tent, but a few yards away, it was the knee jerk reaction which make him throw away the bottle which then sprayed over the tent, luckily for others around him only the tent got it.


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## vernon (26 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> The point I was trying to make whilst you are obviously a wise soul, there are others who are not so wise to know that Meths in the right condition whilst alight is invisible. Hence whilst you have had much practice at following your procedure, it can be unwise to pass the information on in writing much better to demonstrate it so people see and understand the pitfalls more the better.



In my guise as a 'firestarter', look up my postings about indoor rockets and burning ping pong balls - you might want to reconsider your assessment of me as a wise soul . I, along with other classmates in the early seventies, used to rely upon the near invisibility of burning alcohol to set fire to unsuspecting victims' exercise books, pencil cases and haversacks and wait for them to spot that things were getting warmer.

A decade later as a science teacher flammable reagents were placed under lock and key and kids no longer had the ability to explore flash points, and ignition temperatures of various materials - it's no wonder that accidents with meths stoves happen - folk haven't come accross it before


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## Ticktockmy (26 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> In my guise as a 'firestarter', look up my postings about indoor rockets and burning ping pong balls - you might want to reconsider your assessment of me as a wise soul . I, along with other classmates in the early seventies, used to rely upon the near invisibility of burning alcohol to set fire to unsuspecting victims' exercise books, pencil cases and haversacks and wait for them to spot that things were getting warmer.
> 
> A decade later as a science teacher flammable reagents were placed under lock and key and kids no longer had the ability to explore flash points, and ignition temperatures of various materials - it's no wonder that accidents with meths stoves happen - folk haven't come accross it before



You missed out on the real fun, during the early 50, one could wander the fields near to where I lived and find all sorts of strange and majicial stuff, which when place in a suitable fire which just suddenly appeared, one had a really large bangs which Pee,d everyone off, so that then nice local policemen had to lecture us about our deeds, we even hit on the idea if we lit said Bonfire placed the cannon shelled we used to pick up down a metal pipe and there would be a whoosh and a large bang. needless we did not understand that the shell would travel about 11 miles to land on the isle of wight. the brown stuff really hit the fan..but it was such jolly fun


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## Crankarm (26 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> You missed out on the real fun, during the early 50, one could wander the fields near to where I lived and find all sorts of strange and majicial stuff, which when place in a suitable fire which just suddenly appeared, one had a really large bangs which Pee,d everyone off, so that then nice local policemen had to lecture us about our deeds, we even hit on the idea if we lit said Bonfire placed the cannon shelled we used to pick up down a metal pipe and there would be a whoosh and a large bang. needless we did not understand that the shell would travel about 11 miles to land on the isle of wight. the brown stuff really hit the fan..but it was such jolly fun



And kids of today are considered hooligans out of control ..........................


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## smeg (27 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> You missed out on the real fun, during the early 50, one could wander the fields near to where I lived and find all sorts of strange and majicial stuff, which when place in a suitable fire which just suddenly appeared, one had a really large bangs which Pee,d everyone off, so that then nice local policemen had to lecture us about our deeds, we even hit on the idea if we lit said Bonfire placed the cannon shelled we used to pick up down a metal pipe and there would be a whoosh and a large bang. needless we did not understand that the shell would travel about 11 miles to land on the isle of wight. the brown stuff really hit the fan..but it was such jolly fun



None of that makes any sense to me


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## Ticktockmy (27 Aug 2010)

smeg said:


> None of that makes any sense to me



Sorry this old fart rambled on, in the early 1950, we had not long been out of WWII, and as 10 year old's we used to unlike most kids these day, be allowed to wander where we willed (There was no child molesters around then to rape us boys). also at that time there was alot of unexploded bombs and orndance laying around still in the fields and woods. Which to us kids was great fun. as i said with the help of a few fires we used to have loads of fun making very large bangs and rattling windows, which used to upset the local people. But in those day you just got a slap around the head from the local policeman then he wouild help you light the fire..LOL.


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## battered (28 Aug 2010)

At the other extreme I'm experimenting with a penny stove. They aren't the easiest to work out but they weigh nothing (I mean NOTHING) and cost, er, 1p. 

You need 2 empty soft drinks cans and a larger tin lid, or say a sardine tin, 1p and a spare hour or so. 10 minutes to build, the rest fine tuning and messing about.

There are loads of vids on You Tube, all I'll add is that they don't make it very clear how to use them. You really do need the third shallow tin to stand the thing in and get it hot enough to work. Once started, it gets a bit lively but does eventually settle down to something very similar to a Trangia. 

They aren't easy to control (no simmer ring, and you need a damp cloth or a larger tin to snuff them out) They work well though, one has just boiled water for tea in a few minutes, using 2 bent up bike spokes as a pot stand.

Would I want one as my only stove? No. Could I use one on a short ultralight trip? Yes. Are they a useful addition to the kit bag? Certainly, you can do 2 pot cookery with no weight/cost penalty, or knock up a brew while your dinner is on.


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## vernon (28 Aug 2010)

Ticktockmy said:


> You missed out on the real fun, during the early 50, one could wander the fields near to where I lived and find all sorts of strange and majicial stuff, which when place in a suitable fire which just suddenly appeared, one had a really large bangs which Pee,d everyone off, so that then nice local policemen had to lecture us about our deeds, we even hit on the idea if we lit said Bonfire placed the cannon shelled we used to pick up down a metal pipe and there would be a whoosh and a large bang. needless we did not understand that the shell would travel about 11 miles to land on the isle of wight. the brown stuff really hit the fan..but it was such jolly fun



You underestimate me.....

Railway detonators made a good substitute for ordnance


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## Ticktockmy (28 Aug 2010)

vernon said:


> You underestimate me.....
> 
> Railway detonators made a good substitute for ordnance



And the go on about young people theses days..LOL


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## zacklaws (29 Aug 2010)

I have the earlier version that I use when fishing, the multifuel, and they are good, but I mainley use my Trangia now for simplicity and being reliable. The problem with Primus's, is that they do clog up eventually and the generator needs cleaning, which is easy to do as they come apart easy and the parts are robust, the occasional tap with a spoon on the generator as you use it will clean it by breaking free carbon deposits, as witness by the shower of sparks you get. To reduce clogging up when using unleaded, you can add Redex to the fuel, but I never found it that succesful. Alternatively, instead of using unleaded, buy Aspen 4T, or use "Panel Wipe" which they use for cleaning cars down before respraying. Aspen 4T is good (Not Aspen 2T as its got 2 stroke oil in), about £13 a gallon last time I bought some, usually from agricultural suppliers as it is a very refined petroleum spirit for lawnmowers, etc. Panel wipe, I have never sourced, but it is based on Naptha and is cheaper than Aspen and is supposed to be the same as Coleman fuel which retails at a ridiculous price, about £5 for £500ml at a guess. When you use Panel Wipe, evidently you never get clogged up as it is so refined and leaves no carbon deposits. If you look for panel wipe, ensure it is naptha based and not cellulose as it is dangerous to use due to the fumes given off when burnt

Do a search on line for both Aspen and Panel Wipe and there is plenty of info on both products on camping and fishing forums etc

As for the noise, walk away a few yards and you can hardly hear them


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