# No Vax Djokovic



## MrGrumpy (6 Jan 2022)

So Djokovic is all over the news, has been anti vax from the start of this pandemic. What I’m trying to understand here is how he was allowed to travel all the way over there only to then be threatened with deporting due to his vaccination status. They knew beforehand they all did ?? Is his team at fault for not following procedures for his medical exemption ? Or is he being made an example of ?


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## flake99please (6 Jan 2022)

Early contender for thread title of 2022. 

The fault lies entirely with him and his management team IMO


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## dan_bo (6 Jan 2022)

I get the feeling he flew on the tournament organisers say so and when he got there the govt. Went 'nah mate'. 

Lawyers are gonna have a field day on this one whatever happened.


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## vickster (6 Jan 2022)

Sounds like Tennis Australia thought all ok (well they would, wouldn't they), the Federal Govt has a different idea and seems not to want to make an exception cos he's good at swinging a racquet at a fuzzy ball


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## MontyVeda (6 Jan 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> So Djokovic is all over the news, has been anti vax from the start of this pandemic. What I’m trying to understand here is *how he was allowed to travel *all the way over there only to then be threatened with deporting due to his vaccination status. They knew beforehand they all did ?? Is his team at fault for not following procedures for his medical exemption ? Or is he being made an example of ?


The 'exemption' he somehow wangled got him on the plane. Once he got off the plane, the Aussies banged him up in quarantine because his 'exemption' doesn't really wash.

Just a case of someone thinking they're above the Law... is what i see.


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## Dogtrousers (6 Jan 2022)

Does anyone watch "Border Security"? It's a fly on the wall documentary in an Australian airport, featuring Chinese people with bags full of food that is not allowed, and dodgy people having their visas revoked.

Anyway, I'm hoping he will make it into a future episode.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Does anyone watch "Border Security"? It's a fly on the wall documentary in an Australian airport, featuring Chinese people with bags full of food that is not allowed, and dodgy people having their visas revoked.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping he will make it into a future episode.


Yes I’ll be watching


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jan 2022)

MontyVeda said:


> The 'exemption' he somehow wangled got him on the plane. Once he got off the plane, the Aussies banged him up in quarantine because his 'exemption' doesn't really wash.
> 
> Just a case of some one thinking they're above the Law... is what i see.


Yes I get the feeling he thinks he is above the law as well. It’s going to get messy either way .


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## flake99please (6 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Does anyone watch "Border Security"? It's a fly on the wall documentary in an Australian airport, featuring Chinese people with bags full of food that is not allowed, and dodgy people having their visas revoked.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping he will make it into a future episode.



OT…. My dad has appeared in an episode of that (one of the good guys I might add).


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## Arrowfoot (6 Jan 2022)

He refused to reveal his vaccine status and genuinely thought he was above everyone else. There is no doubt the tennis organisers helped him by carrying out a "blind assessment" which turned out to be ingenious way of telling Australians that his exemption was granted by an "independent" body who had no idea who they were assessing. It certainly backfired as it lacked transparency.

The Australian PM like a true politician backed it at first and then did a u-turn when he realised the that is not what Aussie wanted. Now he is claiming to be the one who stopped it. Whole bunch of leaches.


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## Oldhippy (6 Jan 2022)

He is a d*ck of the highest order, why does he think he is so special?


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## vickster (6 Jan 2022)

Cos he's almost won as many grand slams as others and wants the opportunity to beat them it seems (I have to say of him, Federer and Nadal, I like him least by far!)


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## Dogtrousers (6 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> The Australian PM like a true politician backed it at first and then did a u-turn when he realised the that is not what Aussie wanted. Now he is claiming to be the one who stopped it. Whole bunch of leaches.


This was classic politicking and will probably be used as an example in training course for up and coming politicians.


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## dan_bo (6 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Sounds like Tennis Australia thought all ok (well they would, wouldn't they), the Federal Govt has a different idea and seems not to want to make an exception cos he's good at swinging a racquet at a fuzzy ball


And he's an entitled nobber.


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## PeteXXX (6 Jan 2022)

As posted elsewhere by @Dayvo


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## vickster (6 Jan 2022)

Hopefully UK gov will follow suit for Wimbledon (although they've not so far bothered stopping anyone coming in in a timely fashion who's not vaccinated or might have Covid )


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## Cycleops (6 Jan 2022)

So Djokostrap is being held captive in a quarantine hotel. 
Don't the Australians know who he is?


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Does anyone watch "Border Security"? It's a fly on the wall documentary in an Australian airport, featuring Chinese people with bags full of food that is not allowed, and dodgy people having their visas revoked.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping he will make it into a future episode.



Yeah guy claims he just wants to play tennis but only has an anti vax visa.


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## Time Waster (6 Jan 2022)

Some reports say he's had two medical reviews to get the medical exemption. He got to convictland and they asked him to give evidence. Explain how one of the greatest tennis players of all time at the height of his powers with a real invincibility in the aussie open can have a medical reason why he can't have any covid vaccine. And no, you can't use a paranoid belief that they'll put a tracking chip in you as a medical reason. Insanity doesn't count but just gets you a ticket home! 

This is a pr nightmare for team jockstrap! He's gone from possibly the most popular tennis player to public enemy number one in his tennis stronghold of the aussie open. Good luck getting people to stop believing your a prime dickovich! I don't think he believes he's above the rules just that the aussie open organisers are so desperate to get him there his anti vax non public stance, he thought, didn't matter. It does but if there's any loophole with the aussie gov's actions he might still get through. 

He's still a supremely talented tennis player so I hope he grows up and gets his jab so he can join the tennis community that's probably very pro vaccination. I think things are going in one direction and that's to a place where those without vaccination record get excluded from a lot of the modern, public life, entertainment and sports. He's on the wrong side of history!


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## Cycleops (6 Jan 2022)

Of course he doesn't need vaccination as he's protected by the mystical powers of the Serbian pyramids which can also purify water.


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## roadrash (6 Jan 2022)

He knew the rules and thought he was above them, part of the do you know who i am brigade...


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## dan_bo (6 Jan 2022)

The blokes a bit special


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Of course he doesn't need vaccination as he's protected by the mystical powers of the Serbian pyramids which can also purify water.


Haha did you see that tweet ! Mind blown


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## raleighnut (6 Jan 2022)

I see Farridge has weighed in with his take calling Australia a 'Banana Republic' for not allowing 'Novax' in It's called 'Taking Control Of Our Borders' you thicko..................................something you seemed very keen on not so long ago.


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## MrGrumpy (6 Jan 2022)

dan_bo said:


> The blokes a bit special


That’s the tweet !


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## welsh dragon (6 Jan 2022)

Storm in a teacup I suspect. He is against vacination and somehow wrangled an exemption to having it done. He thought he could get away with it.

However, once he landed the government rightly decided he wasn't above the law. Entering another country is a privilege and not a right. The government had every right to detain him, quarantine him and have the right to question the reason for exemption. 

I don't think he has any sympathy from the other players either.

The moral of the story is, don't think you have the right to do whatever you want in someone else's backyard.


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## raleighnut (6 Jan 2022)

it seems that the Serbians are regarding this as an attack 'by the west' on their country and that Novax is being 'held hostage' by the Aussies.


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## welsh dragon (6 Jan 2022)

raleighnut said:


> it seems that the Serbians are regarding this as an attack 'by the west' on their country and that Novax is being 'held hostage' by the Aussies.




Dear God. Of course the Aussies are. What next


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## PaulSB (6 Jan 2022)

Has anyone mentioned the French open to him? If not he'll be emmerder.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jan 2022)

raleighnut said:


> it seems that the Serbians are regarding this as an attack 'by the west' on their country and that Novax is being 'held hostage' by the Aussies.



He is free to get on a flight back home at any time


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## raleighnut (6 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> He is free to get on a flight back home at any time


YepI know, I'm merely posting what i've read his family and the Serbiam President have been saying.


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## steveindenmark (6 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> So Djokostrap is being held captive in a quarantine hotel.
> Don't the Australians know who he is?


I heard that. "He is being held prisoner" according to his supporters. As far as most people are concerned he is in quarantine. Which is where he should be. It will be a travesty if they do not deport him, when so many other people are trying to get home to see their families.


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## slowmotion (6 Jan 2022)

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. There must be ample opportunities for him to practice his racquet-smashing skills in the hotel provided by the Australian government.


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## Time Waster (6 Jan 2022)

He's in a quarantine hotel that's also used for immigrants too. Hardly captive as they'll transport him to the airport any time he asks. Otherwise he's in quarantine as is quite right as far as I'm concerned.


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

Last 3 Trip Advisor reviews of Park Hotel where he resides with 2 Police Officers stationed outside his room. His phone has been taken away. Apparently this not where incoming arrivals are sent for quarantine. Its is now used as a detention centre.

He always had an ego and a point to prove. Most people would prefer taking a return flight.


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## Drago (7 Jan 2022)

His biggest mistake was boasting about it on social media. Before Djokovic had even stepped foot on the plane the Australian PM was saying "We shall see about that, young feller me lad."

With foresight and planning of that level its good that he went into tennis and not robbing banks.


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## steveindenmark (7 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> Last 3 Trip Advisor reviews of Park Hotel where he resides with 2 Police Officers stationed outside his room. His phone has been taken away. Apparently this not where incoming arrivals are sent for quarantine. Its is now used as a detention centre.
> 
> He always had an ego and a point to prove. Most people would prefer taking a return flight.
> 
> ...


I cannot see what right they have to take his phone away from him. What law is in place for that to happen? He is not under arrest. He is in quarantine.

As tennis player and entertainer, I like him. But he is not exempt from the covid rules set in place .


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## mustang1 (7 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Does anyone watch "Border Security"? It's a fly on the wall documentary in an Australian airport, featuring Chinese people with bags full of food that is not allowed, and dodgy people having their visas revoked.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping he will make it into a future episode.


it'll be great if they feature him but don't mention anything about tennis... don't even mention his name. Just call him "someone who thought he could get into the country without being vaccinated." That'll annoy him to no end as he'll realise some media outlets consider him to be a _nobody-of-significance._


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## vickster (7 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> I cannot see what right they have to take his phone away from him. What law is in place for that to happen? He is not under arrest. He is in quarantine.
> 
> As tennis player and entertainer, I like him. But he is not exempt from the covid rules set in place .


I think technically he’s not in quarantine as he hasn’t been allowed to enter the country. He’s actually in immigration holding pending an appeal to see if he’ll be deported. He got an exemption from Tennis Australia not the Government so Border Control detained him. Afaik he’s free to leave Australia at any time but decided to appeal (got a good case or just arrogance?)


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> I cannot see what right they have to take his phone away from him. What law is in place for that to happen? He is not under arrest. He is in quarantine.
> 
> As tennis player and entertainer, I like him. But he is not exempt from the covid rules set in place .


It's not quarantine. He is in a detention centre. His visa has been revoked. The same practice is applied the World over - UK, US, Europe.

There is a lot of confusion. Temporary detention facilities are available at all International airport which will house you if they can deport you the same day. Your phones are also seized and anything that will cause harm to you. He chose to appeal and like all deportees and refugees he has been moved to longer term detention centre until the appeal is heard. In this case a hotel designated for refugee detention. 

He should have left on the next available flight and fought the appeal from home. I think he was trying to make a statement. No doubt encouraged by the father and Serb President.

Serbian President appealed to OZ PM for him to be detained at his rental apartment. They turned it down.


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## Illaveago (7 Jan 2022)

I


Ming the Merciless said:


> He is free to get on a flight back home at any time


Is it the opposite of the Hotel California ?


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

Hi Oz lawyers are also not doing him any favours. They asked for expedited hearing on the basis Tennis Australia needs to complete match schedules with players names in time. The judge basically told them to FO.


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## Drago (7 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> I cannot see what right they have to take his phone away from him. What law is in place for that to happen? He is not under arrest. He is in quarantine.
> 
> As tennis player and entertainer, I like him. But he is not exempt from the covid rules set in place .


He is being _detained_ in quarantine. As far as the law is concerned is not legally present there, hence the detained status. They probably took his belt and shoelaces as well.


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## fossyant (7 Jan 2022)

Eee, all this could have been avoided if he followed the immigration rules for said country. He's cost himself a fair bit, and possibly lost more wonga from the tournament. He's probably got enough dosh anyway. 

You'd think his Manager/PR Team would tell him not to be a plonker as this could affect hie earning capacity ?


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## Time Waster (7 Jan 2022)

Unlikely to get permission for detention at his rented apartment as that would need security to be added to ensure the detention. Daft request that's quite rightly refused.

Detention is simply the right action if you have not complied with the visa regulations. That's assuming you're stubborn enough to not take the first available flight out of there.

Let's hope there's no more tennis players over there without complying to visa regulations. However if there are I hope they get detained and given the opportunity to take the next flight out. As the minister said, the border force will even facilitate it! 

Bloody illegal immigrants!


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## Time Waster (7 Jan 2022)

I read that he's earned USD$150 million in prize money. I'm not sure he'll really miss a bit more from winning the open again down there.


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## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

All this seems to have been caused by a conflict between state and federal law. 
The Australian government gave him some sort of exemption to play but the state where he entered had strict laws to prevent unvaccinated entering the country.
Whatever the outcome I'm enjoying his discomfort.


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

Here is the bigger mystery that many are keen to unravel. This was engineered by Tennis Australia and the Victorian State Govt Acting Minster. It looks like it was engineered for him.
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_“Djokovic applied for a medical exemption which was granted following a *rigorous review process* involving *two separate independent panels of medical experts*,” the statement said. “One of those was the *Independent Medical Exemption Review Panel appointed by the Victorian Department of Health*. They assessed all applications to see if they met the *Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation guidelines*.”

Tennis Australia said the process included the “redaction of personal information to ensure privacy for all applicants,” with details of names, ages and nationalities removed. That means Djokovic was not obliged to make his exemption public.

Australian Open tournament director Craig Tiley said “*fair and independent protocols*” were established for assessing medical exemption applications” and Djokovic went through that “*completely legitimate application and process*.”_
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above managed to survive a few hours and then Victorian State Govt walked away. Then all hell broke loose. Prior to this no such mechanism or bodies existed.

He failed the medical exemption criteria within minutes of arrival at Immigration. So what did the panels look at?


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> All this seems to have been caused by a conflict between state and federal law.
> The Australian government gave him some sort of exemption to play but the state where he entered had strict laws to prevent unvaccinated entering the country.
> Whatever the outcome I'm enjoying his discomfort.


Its the other way around.


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## MrGrumpy (7 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> Here is the bigger mystery that many are keen to unravel. This was engineered by Tennis Australia and the Victorian State Govt Acting Minster. It looks like it was engineered for him.
> 
> The above managed to survive a few hours and then Victorian State Govt walked away. Then all hell broke loose. Prior to this no such mechanism or bodies existed.
> 
> He failed the medical exemption criteria within minutes of arrival at Immigration. So what did the panels look at?


I think they hoped for a wing and prayer ! Either way it’s a mess , should never have come to this


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## rikki (7 Jan 2022)




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## Dogtrousers (7 Jan 2022)

Someone on the radio today was suggesting he could play in the big Aussie tennis competition while his case was still pending. And he could then lose the case and get deported. 

That, I think, would require him to climb out of his hotel window using a rope of knotted sheets.


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## Arrowfoot (7 Jan 2022)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-07/australian-open-renata-vorackova-visa-border-force/100745226


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## Time Waster (7 Jan 2022)

There's reports that they're looking closely at three people. Not sure if that's on top of Djoc


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## matticus (7 Jan 2022)

Oh jeez. This is what the situation needs:

_I’ll give my opinions soon_
— Nicholas Kyrgios (@NickKyrgios) January 6, 2022


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jan 2022)




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## Illaveago (7 Jan 2022)

They will soon be able to hold the tennis match in the hotel if any more players get detained .


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## Cycleops (7 Jan 2022)

Illaveago said:


> They will soon be able to hold the tennis match in the hotel if any more players get detained .


Yeah, but where’s the profit in that?


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## Drago (7 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> _Australian Open tournament director Craig Tiley said “*fair and independent protocols*” were established for assessing medical exemption applications” and Djokovic went through that “*completely legitimate application and process*.”_


And if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle!


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## Time Waster (7 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> And if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle!


Depends. How does she identify? Could easily have balls and identify as female making her your aunt. For a youngster like you I'd have thought you'd know that!


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## slowmotion (8 Jan 2022)

Is NoVaxx the new Lance??


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## steveindenmark (8 Jan 2022)

As he is posting on Instagram and talking to his mother in Serbia. It is evident that the Australian have not confiscated his phone.


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## Arrowfoot (8 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> As he is posting on Instagram and talking to his mother in Serbia. It is evident that the Australian have not confiscated his phone.


Those in detention are allowed access to phones under monitored conditions to talk to family on a periodic basis. Same all around the World. Instagram post likely from his PR minders who would have access to his account. Detainees are also allowed to communicate with their legal counsels.

See below. Phone and all his possessions taken away at the detention centre.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/06/nova...prisoner-in-a-dirty-hotel-with-bugs-15875438/


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## vickster (8 Jan 2022)

Apparently his exemption is because he had Covid a month ago. Why not just say that in the first place rather than taking an anti vax stance 🤷‍♀️


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## Arrowfoot (8 Jan 2022)

My guess is that he will be allowed to play as OZ and UK courts have the similar humanitarian approach. His lawyers will want a full hearing whether tactical or otherwise which will take weeks and months. And they will apply for him to be released and he plays with a negative test. The rest will be moot.

The Federal elections will have to be called by Feb 2022 and elections held by April 2002. And if he plays, the country will punish the Govt for this.

It is interesting that the top two of Tennis Australia - President and CEO are not Australian nationals and only went across after working elsewhere. They probably have insufficient grasp of the OZ sensitive egalitarian psyche. Special treatment are generally frowned upon.

The bod that issued the Federal Visa probably was having a vegemite sandwich at that time and did not realise the consequence. Also explains why a relatively unknown tennis player Renata Vercova was allowed in with the same visa classification some weeks ago with no issues.


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## MontyVeda (8 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Apparently his exemption is because he had Covid a month ago. Why not just say that in the first place rather than taking an anti vax stance 🤷‍♀️


some anti-vaxers seem to believe that having Covid means they don't need the vaccination, thus justifying their anti-vax stance, and whilst this may hold some logic, i'm yet to see any advice stating "Get vaccinated (_unless you've had C19, then don't bother_)"


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Apparently his exemption is because he had Covid a month ago. Why not just say that in the first place rather than taking an anti vax stance 🤷‍♀️



You can understand that early in pandemic but he’s had a year to get vaccinated. I’m sure he hasn’t had Covid all year.


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## Drago (8 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Apparently his exemption is because he had Covid a month ago. Why not just say that in the first place rather than taking an anti vax stance 🤷‍♀️


Although the papers are today showing a picture of him at a party with children...taken the day after he claims he tested positive...

He's just digging himself in deeper and deeper. The Oz government have told him he is free to leave the country any time he wants to, and I cant help thinking it would not only be simpler if he did, but it might also stop his reputation unravelling as fib piles upon fib.


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## PaulSB (8 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> Although the papers are today showing a picture of him at a party with children...taken the day after he claims he tested positive...
> 
> He's just digging himself in deeper and deeper. The Oz government have told him he is free to leave the country any time he wants to, and I cant help thinking it would not only be simpler if he did, but it might also stop his reputation unravelling as fib piles upon fib.


While I don't know about the party and children I very much agree with the rest of the post.

Djokovic is an individual with enormous wealth and therefore able to employ top quality people to assess the Australian entry requirements. I imagine Djokovic and his advisers knew he was on sticky ground prior to travelling. Basically an arrogant approach presuming his super star status would win the day.

I'm not a big tennis fan but always enjoy watching him play. I won't be bothering to watch Novax again and hope if he doesn't meet UK entry requirements this summer he is not allowed to play at Wimbledon.


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## Drago (8 Jan 2022)

The good news is he's still eligible for entry to attend cheese and wine soiree's at Number 10.


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## MasterDabber (8 Jan 2022)

He seems to have the same sense of entitlement as a certain "Andrew" we know too well.
I hope the Aussies dig in and bury him.


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## Arrowfoot (8 Jan 2022)

Apparently he tested positive on 16th Dec but later attended 2 separate officials event in Belgrade where he was presented with newly issued series of stamps honouring him by the country's postal service and another with the President. No mask etc.


PaulSB said:


> I'm not a big tennis fan but always enjoy watching him play. I won't be bothering to watch Novax again and hope if *he doesn't meet UK entry requirements this summer he is not allowed to play at Wimbledon.*



On a scale of 1 to 10, UK is probably a 9 as one of the easiest country to enter under various guises and when quarantine is required, exemptions are granted to do it anywhere you can afford including a service apartment, your friend's second home etc. All he has to do is turn up. The issue is not the UK Border and never has been. It's Wimbledon who can decide if an unvaccinated player is allowed entry to play or can qualify under a medical exemption. 

Oz, NZ and most of the Far East, there is a Police Cordon at the airport. Its all medi-hotels. You are bussed across and met by army and Police at the hotels. You can't pick anything.


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## DRM (8 Jan 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Is NoVaxx the new Lance??


That was my thoughts too with him not getting the jab, terrified of some adverse reaction, iirc weren't tennis players & Spanish top tier soccer teams embroiled in Operation Puerto & Dr Fuentes? and covered up by the Spanish Authorities,
Edit, From Wikipedia
On 5 July 2006, Fuentes was indignant that only cyclists had been named and said he also worked with tennis and football players.[2] On 27 July 2006, IAAF was assured by Spanish prosecutors that no track and field athletes were involved.[58] On 23 September 2006, former cyclist Jesús Manzano told reporters from France 3that he had seen "well-known footballers" from La Liga visit the offices of Dr Fuentes.[59]

In May 2007 Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, at a World Anti-Doping Agency meeting in Montreal, was reportedly interested in the contents "of the Puerto file".[60] _Le Monde_ had reported in December 2006 that they had possession of documents of Fuentes detailing "seasonal preparation plans" for Spanish football clubs FC Barcelona and Real Madrid. These plans did not specifically name any players.[61] No other athletes had been named.


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## matticus (8 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> On a scale of 1 to 10, UK is probably a 9 as one of the easiest country to enter under various guises and when quarantine is required, exemptions are granted to do it anywhere you can afford including a service apartment, your friend's second home etc. All he has to do is turn up. The issue is not the UK Border and never has been. It's Wimbledon who can decide if an unvaccinated player is allowed entry to play or can qualify under a medical exemption


Yes. Consider the relaxed gov view on sport (all those un-jabbed footballers etc).
Plus Wimbledon is in July. I'll be amazed ifany players are refused entry on C***d grounds.


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## Illaveago (8 Jan 2022)

Will they bring in Michael Masi in to sort things out ?


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Jan 2022)

Now it turns out he was meeting people indoors and maskless the day after his so called positive test.


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## MrGrumpy (8 Jan 2022)

DRM said:


> That was my thoughts too with him not getting the jab, terrified of some adverse reaction, iirc weren't tennis players & Spanish top tier soccer teams embroiled in Operation Puerto & Dr Fuentes? and covered up by the Spanish Authorities,
> Edit, From Wikipedia
> On 5 July 2006, Fuentes was indignant that only cyclists had been named and said he also worked with tennis and football players.[2] On 27 July 2006, IAAF was assured by Spanish prosecutors that no track and field athletes were involved.[58] On 23 September 2006, former cyclist Jesús Manzano told reporters from France 3that he had seen "well-known footballers" from La Liga visit the offices of Dr Fuentes.[59]
> 
> In May 2007 Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, at a World Anti-Doping Agency meeting in Montreal, was reportedly interested in the contents "of the Puerto file".[60] _Le Monde_ had reported in December 2006 that they had possession of documents of Fuentes detailing "seasonal preparation plans" for Spanish football clubs FC Barcelona and Real Madrid. These plans did not specifically name any players.[61] No other athletes had been named.


Long thought there is more to him on that front.


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## Time Waster (8 Jan 2022)

Wasn't there something about match fixing betting in tennis allegedly involving a Spanish player? Can't recall the details and not really relevant. Just iirc the couple of articles I read were basically implying there's a lot more dirty stuff going on in tennis and football that's not being brought out like in cycling and even cricket with their match fixing allegations and player involvement in betting rings against the sport governing body's rules.


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## steveindenmark (9 Jan 2022)

How do you get a medical exemption certificate if you have had Covid? Is there an assumption that you cannot catch it again and pass it on to other people?

Australia are going to look so bad if they cave in to this.

I hope they do not come up with some weak solution that he can stay but can only travel between the hotel and the tennis court or some such thing.


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## vickster (9 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> How do you get a medical exemption certificate if you have had Covid? Is there an assumption that you cannot catch it again and pass it on to other people?


Yes


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## Drago (9 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> How do you get a medical exemption certificate if you have had Covid? Is there an assumption that you cannot catch it again and pass it on to other people?


Its not a very good assumption, as Keir Starmer has discovered to his detriment.


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## Drago (9 Jan 2022)

I see some of the more hysterical news outlets have described No-Vax's situation as "imprisonment", while conveniently forgetting to mention that he is free to leave Oz any time he likes. Who'd have thought the Sunday Sport would stoop to such poor journalism?


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## ebikeerwidnes (9 Jan 2022)

It may not be directly his mistake but he did enter the country without a valid visa
and has chosen to remain and try to appeal 

so being in a detention facility is not inappropriate - he may think he is special but legally he is just some numpty


----------



## figbat (9 Jan 2022)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> It may not be directly his mistake but he did enter the country without a valid visa
> and has chosen to remain and try to appeal


Or did he? Reading the court document linked provides a compelling case for his innocence. Well, of course it would as it is from his law team and only one side of the argument, but it lays out a credible case for his vaccination exemption.

For clarity, I am not defending him and I am a fully-vaccinated believer, but there are some assertions being made that are not based on primary knowledge.


----------



## Arrowfoot (9 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> Or did he? Reading the court document linked provides a compelling case for his innocence. Well, of course it would as it is from his law team and only one side of the argument, but it lays out a credible case for his vaccination exemption.
> 
> For clarity, I am not defending him and I am a fully-vaccinated believer, but there are some assertions being made that are not based on primary knowledge.


They are going along with procedural error, because he got both state and federal approval. The State did not follow Federal rules when they granted the exemption and the Federal approval was predicated on state following the rules. The Federal approval system is highly automated for speed.

I have a feeling that that they are going to ask for his blood sample for testing. And that's when he will leave.


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## MasterDabber (9 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> I have a feeling that that they are going to ask for his blood sample for testing. And that's when he will leave.


That could be interesting. No telling what a full analysis might uncover.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jan 2022)

slowmotion said:


> Is NoVaxx the new Lance??



New balls please …


----------



## Ming the Merciless (9 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> Although the papers are today showing a picture of him at a party with children...taken the day after he claims he tested positive...
> 
> He's just digging himself in deeper and deeper. The Oz government have told him he is free to leave the country any time he wants to, and I cant help thinking it would not only be simpler if he did, but it might also stop his reputation unravelling as fib piles upon fib.



No only that, the border force will help facilitate his leaving. What a nice bunch.


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## MrGrumpy (9 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> They are going along with procedural error, because he got both state and federal approval. The State did not follow Federal rules when they granted the exemption and the Federal approval was predicated on state following the rules. The Federal approval system is highly automated for speed.
> 
> I have a feeling that that they are going to ask for his blood sample for testing. And that's when he will leave.


Did fail to declare his covid infection ? All very well getting a visa in Nov but if you then go into catch Covid a month later , surely that would have to be disclosed especially entering OZ ? A bit more to this ?


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## PaulSB (10 Jan 2022)

Djokovic has won his case. BBC News

It makes you wonder really. I would feel a government makes the rules and border officials enforce them. This doesn't seem so difficult to grasp. I'm not planning to attempt to enter France as I know the current French rules.

An exemption is either valid or invalid. I'm struggling to decide if this makes Djokovic look like a spoilt brat or the Australian authorities, federal, state and tennis, idiots. Probably both and nobody wins.

I don't agree with the "valid notice" argument. If I were to turn up at any country in the world without a valid visa I risk being refused entry. I do not understand how Djokovic and his "people" can make such a stupid and basic error.


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## Joey Shabadoo (10 Jan 2022)

He won his case. Obviously bought good lawyers.


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## Illaveago (10 Jan 2022)

Disgusted by the news! 
He now ranks among the all time greats with Lance Armstrong .
I hope people boycott the tournament .
I will . I can't stand tennis anyway .


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## figbat (10 Jan 2022)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> He won his case. Obviously bought good lawyers.


Or maybe he was right?


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## Mo1959 (10 Jan 2022)

Good luck to him for fighting for something he believes so strongly.


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## Blue Hills (10 Jan 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Disgusted by the news!
> He now ranks among the all time greats with Lance Armstrong .
> I hope people boycott the tournament .
> I will . I can't stand tennis anyway .


yep - this is when it's going to get really interesting.
What sort of victory does he think he's won?


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## Joey Shabadoo (10 Jan 2022)

View: https://twitter.com/andrew_winslet/status/1480292471393370120


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## Time Waster (10 Jan 2022)

Aiui djokovich has never had the popularity of say Nadal or Federer. Do you think this will improve his popularity rating?


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## Joey Shabadoo (10 Jan 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Aiui djokovich has never had the popularity of say Nadal or Federer. Do you think this will improve his popularity rating?


In Serbia? Probably.


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## Blue Hills (10 Jan 2022)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> In Serbia? Probably.


yep - sad isn't it - the curse of tribalism - NACAs used to be full of it.


----------



## Dogtrousers (10 Jan 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I hope people boycott the tournament
> I will . I can't stand tennis anyway .



I was probably going to boycott it anyway on the grounds that I'm not particularly interested. I'll continue not to be particularly interested. That'll show 'em.


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## lazybloke (10 Jan 2022)

Illaveago said:


> I hope people boycott the tournament .


I'm not going!


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## MrGrumpy (10 Jan 2022)

Mo1959 said:


> Good luck to him for fighting for something he believes so strongly.


He strongly believes he can purify polluted water using his mind as well !! A stronger believer indeed !


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## Joey Shabadoo (10 Jan 2022)

View: https://twitter.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1480453991062405121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1480453991062405121%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_1_7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Foliverbrown_tel%2Fstatus%2F1480453991062405121%3Fs%3D20


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## fossyant (10 Jan 2022)

Seems very odd that he wasn't open about having had covid before his trip - the Aussie Immigration are pretty strict (maybe he was sneaking in some of his favourite bacon ?)


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## winjim (10 Jan 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> yep - sad isn't it - the curse of tribalism - NACAs used to be full of it.


It's been three months. I know it's difficult but it's a new year so maybe now's the right time to let it go.


----------



## Illaveago (10 Jan 2022)

Someone had better tell the Beeb . They still think he has been released .


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## Illaveago (10 Jan 2022)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> View: https://twitter.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1480453991062405121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1480453991062405121%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_1_7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Foliverbrown_tel%2Fstatus%2F1480453991062405121%3Fs%3D20



Ah! Autograph hunters !


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## matticus (10 Jan 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> What sort of victory does he think he's won?


He's won the chance to win the AUS Open. This is what he lives for. His career palmares will not record visa issues pre-tournament (or his status on the COV*D dick/hero spectrum).



> He has won a joint record 20 Grand Slam men's singles titles, including a record nine Australian Open titles.


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## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

matticus said:


> He's won the chance to win the AUS Open. This is what he lives for. His career palmares will not record visa issues pre-tournament (or his status on the COV*D dick/hero spectrum).


I think they referring to the imminent re-cancellation and this time they will follow procedure.


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## ClichéGuevara (10 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> They are going along with procedural error, because he got both state and federal approval. The State did not follow Federal rules when they granted the exemption and the Federal approval was predicated on state following the rules. The Federal approval system is highly automated for speed.
> 
> *I have a feeling that that they are going to ask for his blood sample for testing. And that's when he will leave.*


_DJOKOVIC: Well as I said before ... I’m surprised that there is insufficient information on the very reason why I was granted the medical exemption by Victorian state independent medical panel which confirmed that I have fulfilled the criteria to enter Australia ... which is not on the paper which you read to me and that is if you had encountered or had a positive Covid PCR test in the previous six months, and you can provide the negative PCR test and the sufficient amount of antibodies, then you are granted access and that’s exactly what happened in the whole process.

So we provided – I provided medical documentation, on 16 November [sic], I was positive on PCR, PCR test positive COVID-19, 22nd I was negative.

*I sent the blood analysis for my antibodies and had a sufficient amount and I was granted the access to Australia and I received the documentation that supported my medical exemption and the travel declaration coming from the federal government.*

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...live-updates/ar-AASB7By?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531_


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## figbat (10 Jan 2022)

From reading the court submission it seems there's a lot of stuff going on that we, the outraged public, did not know or just made assumptions about. There is some suggestion that the decision-makers regarding visas, entry conditions etc were going all Michael Masi and just making it up on the spot. It seems that there is provision within Australian immigration law for vaccination exemption following a PCR-confirmed COVID infection with a 6 month window. It seems that Novak had such an infection (whether or not he should be visiting a kitten orphanage after a positive test is nether here-nor-there for the sake of a visa status). It seems that this assertion was made during the visa revocation process. Now it seems that the court have backed Novak... for now.

I don't support his case nor agree with the moral stance, but it is the Australian authorities with egg on their faces and Novak with a heightened pantomime villainy. I assume there will ne no crowds at the Open?


----------



## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> From reading the court submission it seems there's a lot of stuff going on that we, the outraged public, did not know or just made assumptions about. There is some suggestion that the decision-makers regarding visas, entry conditions etc were going all Michael Masi and just making it up on the spot. It seems that there is provision within Australian immigration law for vaccination exemption following a PCR-confirmed COVID infection with a 6 month window. It seems that Novak had such an infection (whether or not he should be visiting a kitten orphanage after a positive test is nether here-nor-there for the sake of a visa status). It seems that this assertion was made during the visa revocation process. Now it seems that the court have backed Novak... for now.
> 
> I don't support his case nor agree with the moral stance, but it is the Australian authorities with egg on their faces and Novak with a heightened pantomime villainy. I assume there will ne no crowds at the Open?


The judge threw it out on procedural grounds. Act 2 is in progress. Interestingly the judge acknowledged that he can't do anything if he gets deported.


----------



## ClichéGuevara (10 Jan 2022)

If he's tested clear, surely Australia is more of a risk to him, than he is to Australia, and it implies they don't have confidence in their measures to protect him.


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## figbat (10 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> The judge threw it out on procedural grounds. Act 2 is in progress. Interestingly the judge acknowledged that he can't do anything if he gets deported.


Indeed - and the crux of Novak's defence was one of procedural error. It seems the authorities just can't proceed correctly.


----------



## Blue Hills (10 Jan 2022)

winjim said:


> It's been three months. I know it's difficult but it's a new year so maybe now's the right time to let it go.


I said used to be - history - it's all useful to students of human nature/relationships. Of course there is the goldfish alternative. Tribalism is pernicious, lots of examples of it - by the nature of things examples are in the past. Ditto most of books I read are about the past one way and another. One lives and learns.
The tribalism in this matter will doubtless run for a while.


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## Cycleops (10 Jan 2022)

I’m really enjoying this, particularly jocko’s sense of entitlement and his discomfort.
But the real cliffhanger is the will they-won’t they aspect. Whichever way it goes the Aussies are going to be left with egg on their faces.


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## Illaveago (10 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> The judge threw it out on procedural grounds. Act 2 is in progress. Interestingly the judge acknowledged that he can't do anything if he gets deported.


Who ? The judge ?


----------



## T4tomo (10 Jan 2022)

I'm hoping he gets to play..... and gets knocked by a qualifier in round 1


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## fossyant (10 Jan 2022)

What a faff. TBH, if I was him, I'd be off back home to my multi-million pound bank balance, and say 'see ya next year'. Maybe stop off for a nice Island Holiday as he's half way round the earth already.


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## Svendo (10 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> If he's tested clear, surely Australia is more of a risk to him, than he is to Australia, and it implies they don't have confidence in their measures to protect him.


That is so, but then he’d be spreading it to others whilst asymptomatic, and as unvaccinated he would possibly then be a burden to the Australian health system, and also those he might infect.


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## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

Illaveago said:


> Who ? The judge ?


Yep, the judge. 



> _Kelly said the threat of a further visa cancellation meant the “stakes have now risen rather than receded.”
> 
> “If this man is to be summarily removed upon a personal exercise of cancellation power, he cannot return to this country for three years, am I right about that?” Kelly asked lawyers for Home Affairs Minister Andrews, under whose authority Djokovic’s visa was earlier canceled.
> 
> Tran and colleague Naomi Wootten confirmed that Djokovic would be banned from Australia for three years._


They trying to convince him to leave voluntarily so he does not get whacked with a 3 year ban if the Minister of Immigration exercises his right to deport him,.


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## ClichéGuevara (10 Jan 2022)

Svendo said:


> That is so, but then he’d be spreading it to others whilst *asymptomatic,* and as unvaccinated he would possibly then be a burden to the Australian health system, and also those he might infect.



He's tested clear, so isn't asymptomatic. If he caught it, it's be because their system failed.


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## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> What a faff. TBH, if I was him, I'd be off back home to my multi-million pound bank balance, and say 'see ya next year'. Maybe stop off for a nice Island Holiday as he's half way round the earth already.


He has developed into a political and religious model in Serbia. So it not about comfort and money. It's about power. No different to crotch grabbing Trump becoming a model for the bible belt.


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## matticus (10 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> I assume there will ne no crowds at the Open?



Maybe ... there were big-but-reduced crowds at the Ashes. Could be different states though, don't ask me!


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## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> He's tested clear, so isn't asymptomatic.


It's not him. Australia does not allow people with previous Covid infection and without vaccination to enter. Nearly all countries have applied the rule. 

Medical exemption is granted if you have been infected and cannot receive vaccination for a period of time and you need to visit a dying relative or attend a funeral. And certainly not to play tennis. 

Hope folks can tell the difference. The Victorian State Govt engineered this and they knew many can't work it out.


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## winjim (10 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> He has developed into a political and religious model in Serbia. So it not about comfort and money. It's about power. No different to crotch grabbing Trump becoming a model for the bible belt.


Yeah but the Serbians venerate a statue of Rocky Balboa...


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## ClichéGuevara (10 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> It's not him. Australia does not allow people with previous Covid infection and without vaccination to enter. Nearly all countries have applied the rule.
> 
> Medical exemption is granted if you have been infected and cannot receive vaccination for a period of time and you need to visit a dying relative or attend a funeral. And certainly not to play tennis.
> 
> Hope folks can tell the difference. The Victorian State Govt engineered this and they knew many can't work it out.



Except, the judge says they do.


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## Svendo (10 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> He's tested clear, so isn't asymptomatic. If he caught it, it's be because their system failed.


I should have said he’d need to catch it in Australia first. Possibly low likelihood but nonzero, and higher than if he were vaccinated, natural immunity notwithstanding.


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## Arrowfoot (10 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Except, the judge says they do.


The judge ruled on procedural error. As I said many can't work it out.


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## steveindenmark (10 Jan 2022)

Hey Australia

*NEW BALLS PLEASE*

( Someone needs to grow a pair )

I wonder what his reception on court will be like.


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## vickster (10 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> Hey Australia
> 
> *NEW BALLS PLEASE*
> 
> ...


Depends if there are any spectators allowed in 🤷‍♀️ Looks like there will be based on the fact there are tickets for sale via the Aus Open website. If a mainly local crowd he may just possibly perhaps get booed a teensy weensy little bit?


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## icowden (10 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> _So we provided – I provided medical documentation, on 16 November [sic], I was positive on PCR, PCR test positive COVID-19, 22nd I was negative._


And I am sure it will play well that having being tested positive on 16th December, the first thing good old Novak did was to spread the virus as widely as possible putting himself in direct contact with both adults and children without a mask. What a lovely bloke!


View: https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1479730371679850500?s=20


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## matticus (10 Jan 2022)

matticus said:


> Maybe ... there were big-but-reduced crowds at the Ashes. Could be different states though, don't ask me!


There will probably be fans at the matches.

Novak will get some boo-ing, but also some loyal fans*. He's used to that - although the balance may be a little different at this tournamament ...

*google serbian fans in australia, they're mad for him!


----------



## steveindenmark (10 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> Depends if there are any spectators allowed in 🤷‍♀️ Looks like there will be based on the fact there are tickets for sale via the Aus Open website. If a mainly local crowd he may just possibly perhaps get booed a teensy weensy little bit?


Or cheered madly by tennis fans. 

I think this could bite him on the arxe


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## vickster (10 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> Or cheered madly by Djokovic fans.
> 
> I think this could bite him on the arxe


FTFY


----------



## ClichéGuevara (10 Jan 2022)

Svendo said:


> I should have said *he’d need to catch it in Australia firs*t. Possibly low likelihood but nonzero, and higher than if he were vaccinated, natural immunity notwithstanding.



Precisely. So irrespective of what he did back home, as that's for his authorities to sort, he's currently clear, so is less of a risk to Australia, than Australia is to him, so it suggests they don't trust their own measures.


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## T4tomo (10 Jan 2022)

matticus said:


> Maybe ... there were big-but-reduced crowds at the Ashes. Could be different states though, don't ask me!


Western Australia had the biggest / significant restrictions, so they moved the 5th test to Hobart. Melbourne / Victoria had what appeared to be a normal-ish sized crowd for the usual boxing day test. I don't believe the Victoria state govt issued any crown capping measures.


----------



## Joey Shabadoo (10 Jan 2022)

View: https://twitter.com/henrybreadstick/status/1480405251115028486


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## Illaveago (13 Jan 2022)

"New balls please !"

The Australian prime minister was asked about No Vax Djokovic as to whether he should be deported and passed it off to the immigration minister .
Why haven't politicians got any balls these days to do things when it seems obvious that the rules have been broken ?


----------



## Cycleops (13 Jan 2022)

What you have to remember is that the Australians are sports mad so any leader has to make the right decision to avoid unpopularity.


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## Illaveago (13 Jan 2022)

Cycleops said:


> What you have to remember is that the Australians are sports mad so any leader has to make the right decision to avoid unpopularity.


Have they turned Pass the Parcel into a sport ? It sure looks that way in which nobody can make a decision !


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## Time Waster (13 Jan 2022)

Do they get a little pack of sweeties with each layer opened if they don't win it? If so I'm all over that sport! You see some pass the parcel regions don't do that. I refuse to compete in those regions!


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## figbat (13 Jan 2022)

Time Waster said:


> Do they get a little pack of sweeties with each layer opened if they don't win it? If so I'm all over that sport! You see some pass the parcel regions don't do that. I refuse to compete in those regions!


This is something I have learnt as a parent. When I were a lad all you got at each layer was some ripped up paper and a sense of disappointment. Maybe that's what Novak is heading for?


----------



## PeteXXX (14 Jan 2022)

Bye bye Djokovic... Or is it? 🤔


----------



## Drago (14 Jan 2022)

The pundits reckon the ministerial privilege rule is near on impossible to challenge. If the Oz's have any sense they'll have him on the first plane out, make it a fait accompli.

It also means No-Vax is now automatically banned from entering Oz for 3 years which will hit him financially.

Still, little sympathy. Hes been caught out in multiple fib, with new ones coming to light daily, and in moving about and mixing in public while infected with a disease that has the potential to be fatal to some of the people out there. Hes treating the laws of multiple countries and the rights and wellbeing of those with whom he comes into contact with utter contempt. 

He's discovering that actions have consequences, and being a wealthy sleb sportsperson doesn't make you immune to being slapped back when you take the pith.


----------



## Arrowfoot (14 Jan 2022)

PeteXXX said:


> Bye bye Djokovic... Or is it? 🤔


Definitely, certainly and for sure. The Federal Government is facing an April GE. Australians rate egalitarianism much much higher than their sports crazy culture. They never entertained tall poppies and they are not about to start now. Remember they made their Cricket captain walk the plank 2 months ago. And cricket captaincy is the second most important job after the PM.


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## Arrowfoot (14 Jan 2022)

The Immigration Minister's Full Statement.


----------



## Illaveago (14 Jan 2022)

The Australian PM has now supported the cancellation .


----------



## cougie uk (14 Jan 2022)

Anyone that's ever caught an episode of Australian Border Force knew this was only going to end one way.


----------



## Cycleops (14 Jan 2022)

He's on his way then. This should be played at the airport as he departs:

View: https://youtu.be/OgtQj8O92eI


----------



## Dogtrousers (14 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Anyone that's ever caught an episode of Australian Border Force knew this was only going to end one way.


You mean the final reveal, when they discover that Djokovic's suitcase was full of pickled eggs and unwashed vegetables?

Cut to stern faced officer: "These seeds represent a serious hazard to our biosecurity!"

Dramatic music: Dum-di-dum-di-dum!


----------



## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> You mean the final reveal, when they discover that Djokovic's suitcase was full of pickled eggs and unwashed vegetables?
> 
> Cut to stern faced officer: "These seeds represent a serious hazard to our biosecurity!"
> 
> Dramatic music: Dum-di-dum-di-dum!



No it’s where it is where he didn’t declare his tennis racket on the form and his balls are stuffed with nuts.


----------



## Cycleops (14 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> You mean the final reveal, when they discover that Djokovic's suitcase was full of pickled eggs and unwashed vegetables?
> 
> Cut to stern faced officer: "These seeds represent a serious hazard to our biosecurity!"


They are very serious about their bio security. Before you’re allowed to step off the plane they come down the aisles spraying disinfectant over you.


----------



## yello (14 Jan 2022)

Captivating watch is 'Border Force' Not only for watching the breathtaking naivety/stupidity of some passengers (how did they ever think they'd get away with that!) AND what happens to people when you give them a badge and a uniform.

I think the Aussie govt/authorities backed themselves into a corner. They've handled it badly and as a result left themselves with only 2 options and neither make them look good. I felt they simply had to revoke Djokovic's visa to enforce the rule of law. To have done otherwise would make them look as though there's preferential treatment (when we all know there is anyway but you just can't openly admit to that!)


----------



## fossyant (14 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Anyone that's ever caught an episode of Australian Border Force knew this was only going to end one way.



Quite, exactly what I thought. They stopped accepting crims a long time ago !  The Border Force take no prisoners.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

No Vax has had plenty of opportunity to become two Vax. I’d agree catching Covid on Dec 16th is not a valid exemption.

As Jamie Murray said “If it was me, I don’t think I’d be getting that exemption”


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## yello (14 Jan 2022)

Genuine question here (I know I could google)...

I presume he's not being deported (that is, as in the legal definition of) and has simply had his visa cancelled/revoked. I understand deportation would mean he could never re-enter Australia (or certainly not for x years) and I presume they wouldn't want that.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

yello said:


> Genuine question here (I know I could google)...
> 
> I presume he's not being deported (that is, as in the legal definition of) and has simply had his visa cancelled/revoked. I understand deportation would mean he could never re-enter Australia (or certainly not for x years) and I presume they wouldn't want that.



Deportation is the next step as legally he has no right to enter Australia. But they are expecting another legal challenge. Hence the delay.


----------



## icowden (14 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> No Vax has had plenty of opportunity to become two Vax. I’d agree catching Covid on Dec 16th is not a valid exemption.
> 
> As Jamie Murray said “If it was me, I don’t think I’d be getting that exemption”


That's if he even caught it on 16th. Der Spiegel have been looking at the online database and there seems to be evidence to suggest that he actually tested positive on 26th December - which makes things worse not better.

He's obviously not heard that porkie pies can get out of control, and the more lies you tell, the more obvious they become.


----------



## yello (14 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Deportation is the next step as legally he has no right to enter Australia. But they are expecting another legal challenge. Hence the delay.


So what you are saying is that he will be (the legal definition of) deported if the challenge fails.

Does that then mean he will no longer be able to re-enter Aus, let alone compete in the Australian Open?


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## yello (14 Jan 2022)

icowden said:


> Der Spiegel have been looking at the online database and there seems to be evidence to suggest that he actually tested positive on 26th December - which makes things worse not better.


I've read that and I will be following it. It really does not look good for Djokovic (if true) and he really would have nailed his own coffin.


----------



## fossyant (14 Jan 2022)

The process a mate of mine had to go through to take a bike into the country. He couldn't guarantee there was no dirt on his tyres, despite scrubbing the bike, so bought new tyres. He literally had to strip and scrub it before it would be allowed in.


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## Arrowfoot (14 Jan 2022)

Renata Voracova voluntarily left and is now pursuing Tennis Australia for compensation. It is the right thing to do as they ignored Federal Govt clear documented advice and facilitated an exemption and thereby misleading her.

Novak's Australian lawyers are competent and would have told him very clearly that he had no hope and likely to attract a 3 year ban if he did not leave voluntarily. He ignored it and they got him out on a technicality.

The Federal Govt lead counsel also raised the Minister's power at the hearing so there is not doubt in anyone's mind what the consequence can be. The Federal judge acknowledged the powers and raised the point about the 3 year ban.

So why did he do it? My guess is that Novak has a bigger agenda back home. He has been cultivating clout with political and religious leaders for years. I think he chose martyrdom for future political aims. He has been ambitious and even attempting to start a rival Tennis tour to rival the existing one.


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## yello (14 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> The process a mate of mine had to go through to take a bike into the country. He couldn't guarantee there was no dirt on his tyres, despite scrubbing the bike, so bought new tyres. He literally had to strip and scrub it before it would be allowed in.


That happened to my brother* when he returned to NZ with his mtb.

*in the unlikely event that someone is tracking my posts (why??), I have (had) 3 brothers that I've recently mentioned; one has questionable memory recall, one likes his stereo gear and the other (now sadly departed and my favourite) was, like me, into bikes and we toured a great deal together... I think. One can't always trust ones memories!


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

yello said:


> So what you are saying is that he will be (the legal definition of) deported if the challenge fails.
> 
> Does that then mean he will no longer be able to re-enter Aus, let alone compete in the Australian Open?



I think it’s a 3 year ban if deported


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## Arrowfoot (14 Jan 2022)

yello said:


> So what you are saying is that he will be (the legal definition of) deported if the challenge fails.
> 
> Does that then mean he will no longer be able to re-enter Aus, let alone compete in the Australian Open?





Ming the Merciless said:


> I think it’s a 3 year ban if deported


The 3 year ban is already in play the moment the Minister made the decision. He has 28 days to appeal. However he will be detained unless he can get a stay order from the courts or the Govt agrees to it until the appeal is heard.


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## yello (14 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> The Federal Govt lead counsel also raised the Minister's power at the hearing so there is not doubt in anyone's mind what the consequence can be. The Federal judge acknowledged the powers and raised the point about the 3 year ban.


Thank you, that answered the question I asked above.

Makes you wonder why Djokovic chose the path he did. I have a kind of saying - don't argue with bouncers. It could equally apply to law enforcement.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, if someone wields an absolute power then you really have to be super careful, play by (their) book and jump through the hoops. Either Djokovic, or his agent, has given the authorities something to point to when they throw the book - and this was highlighted to Djokovic (according to the interpretation above) on at least a couple of occasions. He could have (should have?) taken the hint.

You just don't call the bouncer a thick shoot. You know how it's going to end.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Jan 2022)

yello said:


> That happened to my brother* when he returned to NZ with his mtb.
> 
> *in the unlikely event that someone is tracking my posts (why??), I have (had) 3 brothers that I've recently mentioned; one has questionable memory recall, one likes his stereo gear and the other (now sadly departed and my favourite) was, like me, into bikes and we toured a great deal together... I think. One can't always trust ones memories!


Goes and updates spreadsheet


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## Arrowfoot (14 Jan 2022)

I think the Oz govt also spent a lot of time investigating what else he did prior to his entry. Respected German investigative weekly Der Spiegel queried the QR code for his PCR test and found that it was issued 10 days after the date originally claimed. 

My guess is that he won't appeal as too many things will come out.


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## matticus (14 Jan 2022)

I don't pretend to know the Aussie system, but you can read live updates on the current hearing here:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/l...atest-updates-immigration-minister-alex-hawke

(It tickles me that they've used exactly the same web-page layout/engine/thingy as for the Ashes over-by-over coverage  )


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## Time Waster (14 Jan 2022)

It's possible that he's playing to his home audience for political power reasons. Klitschko the boxer is the mayor of Ukrainian capital city. He would be a good role model for Djokovich but imho Djokovich isn't as good a political prospect as Klitschko who is not just a supremely successful boxer but highly intelligent. I don't think Djokovich is as well rounded. However he'll certainly get a few years mixing with the great and good of his home nation after this.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Goes and updates spreadsheet



What do your cameras trained on @yello ’s house reveal?


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## yello (14 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> What do your cameras trained on @yello ’s house reveal?


The dog basking in the sun on the lounge floor probably. 

So, yes, we must head out for a walk and enjoy the sun.... _profiter_ as the French would say.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2022)

yello said:


> The dog basking in the sun on the lounge floor probably.
> 
> So, yes, we must head out for a walk and enjoy the sun.... _profiter_ as the French would say.



Yep I’m heading out after 1pm giving ice a chance to have melted


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## Illaveago (15 Jan 2022)

One thing you can say for him is that he has certainly given the Australian Tennis Open a lot of publicity !


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## Cycleops (15 Jan 2022)

Poor old Djocko is back in Stalagluft 19. This is turning into a real cliffhanger.


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## Arrowfoot (15 Jan 2022)

Appeal set for tomorrow, Sunday in front of 3 Judge including CJ. The composition means that there is no further appeal and the road ends.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jan 2022)

Apparently he could have gone for a two week quarantine as an unvaccinated visitor. But he didn’t want to do that either.


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## yello (15 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Apparently he could have gone for a two week quarantine as an unvaccinated visitor. But he didn’t want to do that either.


That wouldn't help his cause one bit if true. Some might see arrogance in that.


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## steveindenmark (15 Jan 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I think it’s a 3 year ban if deported


It can be a 3 year ban.

Personally, I think deporting him and banning him for a year would be a better option for the Australian government.


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

He is in court to fight his expulsion and he is scheduled to play on Monday night. If his visa is rejected he can still stay in Australia while he appeals the decision. But they could confine him until the decision is made.

Whether he wins or loses I think he comes out looking like an entitled brat.


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## raleighnut (16 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> He is in court to fight his expulsion and he is scheduled to play on Monday night. If his visa is rejected he can still stay in Australia while he appeals the decision. But they could confine him until the decision is made.
> 
> Whether he wins or loses I think he comes out looking like an entitled brat.


I believe the term you're looking for is 'nobber'


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## Joey Shabadoo (16 Jan 2022)

Game, Set and Match to the Australian Government

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-60014059


> Tennis star Novak Djokovic has lost his last-ditch court bid to stay in Australia and is set to be deported.
> 
> Federal judges rejected his appeal after the government cancelled his visa for the second time this month on public health grounds.
> 
> ...


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

Good to see the Australian government and judges found those new balls.

Plus he has to pay the court costs. If he appeals he will still get turned out and it will cost him even more.

If he has any brains he will release a statement accepting the decision and get out quick.


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## Drago (16 Jan 2022)

Make the self entitled prat swim home.


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## Illaveago (16 Jan 2022)

I think they should pack him off to the airport right away before his lawyers can appeal again .


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## Arrowfoot (16 Jan 2022)

Unanimous decision by the 3 Judges including CJ.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-60014059


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## Joey Shabadoo (16 Jan 2022)




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## Illaveago (16 Jan 2022)

"He's leaving on a jet plane "
"Don't know when he'll be back again !". 

Pinched from John Denver .


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## PeteXXX (16 Jan 2022)

Not that it particularly bothers me, but will him not playing affect his world No 1 ranking?


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## vickster (16 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> Good to see the Australian government and judges found those new balls.
> 
> Plus he has to pay the court costs. If he appeals he will still get turned out a d it will cost him even more.
> 
> If he has any brains he will release a statement accepting the decision and get out quick.


I doubt the cost is of primary concern


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## matticus (16 Jan 2022)

PeteXXX said:


> Not that it particularly bothers me, but will him not playing affect his world No 1 ranking?


Yes, I think you've understood the system 👍


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

vickster said:


> I doubt the cost is of primary concern


Neither do I. But if he has any Yorkshire in him. He will hate giving away money.


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## sheddy (16 Jan 2022)

Still top of the world wankings


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## Drago (16 Jan 2022)

Apparently theyre intending to kick him out swiftly. If he intends to appeal to a higher court, he'll have to do it from whereveristan and not Oz.

The moment he landed they should have shoved him on the next flight/boat/canoe heading out.


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## raleighnut (16 Jan 2022)

View: https://youtu.be/0jm0EHceDzE


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## yello (16 Jan 2022)

As soon as the Aus govt revealed it's "we can do what we like here" card, the decision became as much about which camp they pissed off least/most as anything else.

As farcical as it all became, personally I feel the Govt could only ever take a strict line on the rules and cancel the visa.


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## Milzy (16 Jan 2022)

I don’t really like the guy & although it seems harsh on him, Australia are well within their rights to send him packing. Haaarrrr haaaa!


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## Arrowfoot (16 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> Apparently theyre intending to kick him out swiftly. If he intends to appeal to a higher court, he'll have to do it from whereveristan and not Oz.
> 
> The moment he landed they should have shoved him on the next flight/boat/canoe heading out.


Once it is a 3 judge Federal Court, the road ends. His lawyers asked for the 3 judge and not the usual single judge. There is no further avenue.


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## Bonefish Blues (16 Jan 2022)

We'll have that 3-way tie for Grand Slam titles winners a little while longer then - assuming Rafa can't win here, which is a fair assumption, I think.


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## sheddy (16 Jan 2022)

Novax Cockovic will now be remembered as the first grand slam player to be eliminated after missing two shots.


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> We'll have that 3-way tie for Grand Slam titles winners a little while longer then - assuming Rafa can't win here, which is a fair assumption, I think.


My opinion is who cares?

When so many Australians have been refused entry to visit family and sick and dying relatives. I find it hard to believe that a man would go through all of this to walk over those people to play tennis. I used to find him entertaining. But now I will just see him as being self centred and arrogant. He will arrive home as a national hero, I will not be suprised to see his supporters burning the Australian flag. I think this could define his tennis career and thats a shame.


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## Bonefish Blues (16 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> My opinion is who cares?
> 
> When so many Australians have been refused entry to visit family and sick and dying relatives. I find it hard to believe that a man would go through all of this to walk over those people to play tennis. I used to find him entertaining. But now I will just see him as being self centred and arrogant. He will arrive home as a national hero, I will not be suprised to see his supporters burning the Australian flag. I think this could define his tennis career and thats a shame.


Why did you quote my post to make that point? I care about the Grand Slams, which is why I made the point, which you quoted and then made a wholly different one.


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Why did you quote my post to make that point? I care about the Grand Slams, which is why I made the point, which you quoted and then made a wholly different one.


You must be one of the few people outside of Serbia who does care. Compared to other peoples reasons for wanting to get into Australia. His reason was insignifant. That was my point. I used your quote because you put it out there and so I can use it.


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## Bonefish Blues (16 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> *You must be one of the few people outside of Serbia who does care*. Compared to other peoples reasons for wanting to get into Australia. His reason was insignifant. That was my point. I used your quote because you put it out there and so I can use it.


Tennis fans outside Serbia don't care about Grand Slam Tournaments and the 3 giants of the game who each have 20 Grand Slam titles?
I appreciate your unusual insight into the game.

Reading posts is always a good start, at least IME, lest someone was making a rather different point entirely - which was, for your complete understanding - now that he is unable to play in a tournament for which he was clear favourite*, it looks like we will continue with the 3-way tie for most Grand Slam Tournaments won for another tournament 😊

I was making no comment about the efficacy of his impending expulsion, but as it happens, I absolutely understand and support it.

WRT this defining his tennis career, I very much doubt it. In future years it will show him (I expect) as the clear GOAT in terms of Grand Slams won. This will be a footnote.

*As World No 1 and a previous 9-time winner, and which surface Rafa Nadal's game is unsuited to.


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## steveindenmark (16 Jan 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Tennis fans outside Serbia don't care about Grand Slam Tournaments and the 3 giants of the game who each have 20 Grand Slam titles?
> I appreciate your unusual insight into the game.
> 
> Reading posts is always a good start, at least IME, lest someone was making a rather different point entirely - which was, for your complete understanding - now that he is unable to play in a tournament for which he was clear favourite*, it looks like we will continue with the 3-way tie for most Grand Slam Tournaments which surface Rafa Nadal's game is unsuited to.





Bonefish Blues said:


> Tennis fans outside Serbia don't care about Grand Slam Tournaments and the 3 giants of the game who each have 20 Grand Slam titles?
> I appreciate your unusual insight into the game.
> 
> Reading posts is always a good start, at least IME, lest someone was making a rather different point entirely - which was, for your complete understanding - now that he is unable to play in a tournament for which he was clear favourite*, it looks like we will continue with the 3-way tie for most Grand Slam Tournaments won for another tournament 😊
> ...


Sorry. I did not understand 90% of that and I do not know these people. As far as I, and many others are concerned. He is a self centred, entitled git. He should have manned up and ruled himself put of this competition. Even if it was to respect those Australians who have been trying to get home to visit relatives. I have friends in OZ arranging street BBQs to celebrate the back of him 😁😁


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## Joey Shabadoo (16 Jan 2022)

One of his entourage probably deliberately not wearing his mask properly.


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## Time Waster (16 Jan 2022)

Funny thing about tennis, people who don't follow it and only have comments on the controversial when they hit the main news can't see that a lot of people care about the game. It's kind of like people on a non cycling site slagging off Pro cyclists as all doping when they catch and ban one prominent cyclist doping. My who cares comment is about the opinions of those who say "who cares" in such cases. If that makes sense.

The good thing about all this is how any thread on here about grand slams in tennis will be for fans of tennis and sport not those out for the controversy.

IMHO the AO has undoubtedly lost out due to the stupidity of the GOAT Djokovich. It is a lesser tournament without him but it is still right to be without him due to no vaccination status. It has been his tournament to lose IMHO. Howeverwe'll still see a good level of tennis skill without him


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## Drago (16 Jan 2022)

I don't think its lost out. I think the integrity and sporting credentials of the evet are enhanced without an arrogant, lying prat who thinks the rules and regulations of multiple countries do not apply ro him.

The remaining players are behaving themselves, and setting a better example of sportsmanlike behaviour. Not only that, they aren't sticking a metaphorical middle finger up at the bulk of Australians who made so many sacrifices in the name of public safety, and that also preseves the standing of the event.


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## matticus (16 Jan 2022)

_Taken as a whole_, they both lost. The Open would DEFINITELY rather have Novak playing - they just don't want him breaking rules to achieve that.

I suspect most in government would also want him in - as if they have any sense, they will want what's best for one of their highest profile international events. (The only small plus side might be the show of legal force - but the confused handling will undermine even this aspect, I believe.)


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## glasgowcyclist (16 Jan 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> it will show him (I expect) as the clear GOAT in terms of Grand Slams won



Not while there are still three women with more Grand Slams than he has.


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## Arrowfoot (16 Jan 2022)

Time Waster said:


> The good thing about all this is how any thread on here about grand slams in tennis will be for fans of tennis and sport not those out for the controversy.


I don't think that is a fair statement. 

On paper Novak Djokovic is the greatest tennis player ever even with the current tie with Nadal and Federer. Just google his achievements and you will see he has out gunned both his rivals and any other player. 

He was kicked out not because of Tennis. He did not follow the rules that the country expected of all its visitors and of their own. It is straightforward and easily understood whether you understand Tennis or not.


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## Drago (16 Jan 2022)

It's like Lewis Hamilton.

Ace wheelman, but a raving pranny.

Perhaps to dominate a sport one must be a bit of a d**kwad in character?


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## matticus (16 Jan 2022)

Drago said:


> Ace wheelman


This phrase is due a comeback.


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## matticus (16 Jan 2022)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Not while there are still three women with more Grand Slams than he has.


They can't compete for the same Grand Slams, so I think it's a given that you can have 2 goats!


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## Bonefish Blues (16 Jan 2022)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Not while there are still three women with more Grand Slams than he has.


Fair point. Happy to qualify it to the Men's game.

That said, the top 3 in the Women's game have no overlap in their Slams. Compare with this period when for the majority of the time Nadal, Federer and Captain Covid have been direct competitors - there's little doubt in my mind that if even one of the 3 hadn't been around, we'd be talking of someone with 30 slams. Ifs and buts and maybes, I know


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## Stephenite (16 Jan 2022)

Just had to...


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## Time Waster (16 Jan 2022)

Arrowfoot said:


> I don't think that is a fair statement.
> 
> On paper Novak Djokovic is the greatest tennis player ever even with the current tie with Nadal and Federer. Just google his achievements and you will see he has out gunned both his rivals and any other player.
> 
> He was kicked out not because of Tennis. He did not follow the rules that the country expected of all its visitors and of their own. It is straightforward and easily understood whether you understand Tennis or not.


That comment was in response to the poster who said "who cares?" Once this has dropped out of the news cycle tennis threads can get back into discussing the sport. The controversy that non tennis fans are commenting on ends and they'll probably not be interested in normal tennis threads.

Those who do care about tennis will be left to discuss the sport. That will include djokovich in the future without controversy. He's not finished at all. Roland Garros might be difficult but Wimbledon and flushing meadow won't I reckon for djokovich. We'll see him winning this year somewhere I'm certain.


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## vickster (16 Jan 2022)

He might want to get vaccinated if he plans to play in the US


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## sheddy (16 Jan 2022)

^ Welcome to Yovax Notacockovic !


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## steveindenmark (17 Jan 2022)

Latest news is that he can also have trouble with the French Open. 

Oh dear dear. What a shame. Never mind.


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## Drago (17 Jan 2022)

And the French will be even less inclined to fanny about than the Australianists.


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## Joey Shabadoo (17 Jan 2022)

The Americans won't be keen either.


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## Noodle Legs (17 Jan 2022)




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## Noodle Legs (17 Jan 2022)




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## classic33 (17 Jan 2022)

Noodle Legs said:


> View attachment 627071


Beaten to it!


Stephenite said:


> View attachment 626879
> 
> 
> Just had to...


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## hobo (17 Jan 2022)

Not such a bad person..

Courtesy of wiki..

In 2007, Djokovic founded the Novak Djokovic Foundation. The organization's mission is to help children from disadvantaged communities to grow up and develop in stimulating and safe environments.[415] The foundation partnered with the World Bank in August 2015 to promote early childhood education in Serbia.[416][417][418] His foundation has built 43 schools and supported almost 20,800 children and a thousand families.[419][420]

He participated in charity matches with the aim of raising funds for the reconstruction of the Avala Tower, as well as to aid victims of the 2010 Haiti earthquake and 2010–11 Queensland floods.[421][422][423] Starting in 2007, he has established a tradition of hosting and socializing with hundreds of Kosovo Serb children during Davis Cup matches organized in Serbia.[424] Djokovic was selected as the 2012 Arthur Ashe Humanitarian of the Year, for his contributions through the foundation, his role as a UNICEF national ambassador and other charitable projects.[425] In August 2015, he was appointed a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador.[426]

During the 2014 Balkans floods, he sparked worldwide financial and media support for victims in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Serbia.[427] After winning the 2014 Rome Masters, Djokovic donated his prize money to the flood victims in Serbia, while his foundation collected another $600,000.[427][420] Following his 2016 Australian Open victory, Djokovic donated $20,000 to Melbourne City Mission's early childhood education programm to help disadvantaged children.[428] After the COVID-19 pandemic spread to Serbia in March 2020, he and his wife announced that they will donate €1 million for the purchase of ventilators and medical equipment to support hospitals and other medical institutions.[429] He also made a donation to Bergamo, Italy‚ one of the worst-affected Italian provinces, as well as to Novi Pazar, Serbia and North Mitrovica, Kosovo.[


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Jan 2022)

steveindenmark said:


> Latest news is that he can also have trouble with the French Open.
> 
> Oh dear dear. What a shame. Never mind.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Jan 2022)




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## Noodle Legs (17 Jan 2022)




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## Johnsop99 (20 Jan 2022)




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## Ming the Merciless (20 Jan 2022)




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## Joey Shabadoo (30 Jan 2022)

So pleased to see Nadal win in Australia and go 1 ahead of Djokovic in the Grand Slam stakes, especially as it's looking increasingly likely the Serb falsified his Covid results to get into Australia.


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## LarryDuff (30 Jan 2022)

I would have preferred Medvedev to have won. There's something about Nadal that I just don't like


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## Time Waster (30 Jan 2022)

Just glad djokovich didn't win. Out of the three formerly 20 grand slam winners I tend to think Federer, Nadal and last djokovich in the popularity stakes. Before this year I'd have put that list the other way round in the chances of going ahead in the grandslam records.

As to niceness of the guy wrt charities that's irrelevant it's his attitude in and around the game that's important. A lot of wealthy sportspeople give time and money to charities. Even playing in a few charity matches gets you value financially through positive or, the cynical part of me would say. The rest is just money given away to a foundation that looks after it all for you, also generating positive pr through the use of your name.

I am a complete cynic when it comes to rich people and charity. There's very few rich people I think are truly about the ideals of charity. If 10% of your wealth is £10 and you give it away it's a bigger deal than a £100m wealth resulting in a million pound charity cheque imho. AIUI there's very few giving serious money away compared to their wealth. The ex wife of Bezos and the Gates are the only ones to spring to mind. Of course there's the US billionaire with the surname Cuban who's selling medicines into the USA at Fraction of the price you can get them over there. $8000 medicine going for $50 on his online sales site. Apparently that's a good thing for billionaire to do rather than fly into upper atmosphere in a flying penis!


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