# An electric bike for touring



## RedBike (14 Aug 2010)

Ok. I know my range is going to be severally hampered, but is it possible?
Is there such a thing as an electric touring bike?


Due to an injury I'm having major trouble with the gears/ weight of my motorbike and I can't get very far at all on a standard bike.


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## numbnuts (14 Aug 2010)

Not unless your prepared to tow a trailer with a 24/36 volt generator behind you


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## ColinJ (14 Aug 2010)

You are never going to get more than about 15-20 miles range on one charge if you aren't able to pedal to help the motor. Probably less if you go somewhere scenic (i.e. hilly!).

Did you consider the hand-cranked recumbent bike idea?

Or how about a 125 cc scooter? They must be a lot lighter than a motorbike.


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## RedBike (14 Aug 2010)

Colin, 
theres been a bit of unexpected development on the pedalling front.

I've been talking to a frame builder / bike fitter and they've made me a few changes. Basically I couldn't ride before because my ankle was collapsing and twisting inwards with each pedal stroke. This twisting was causing pain not only in the ankle itself but also in my knees and hips. Simply by adjusting my saddles position and adding arch supports to my shoes I can now pedal for short periods of time provided I don't put any pressure on the pedals. 
Unfortunately, not being able to put any pressure onto the pedals means I can't cope quite cope without the assistance of a motor. 

I was planning to let the train take the strain between destinations and just ride from the train station to the campsite / B&amp;B.
My motorbike is only a 125. I know a 125 is hardly 'heavy' as far as motorbikes go. I did think about taking the motorbike touring but I wanted to go up to scotland. I can't take a 125 on the motorways (Duel caridgeways are REALLY scarry) and I don't fancy the ride all on 'A' roads.


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## Ste T. (14 Aug 2010)

If you are stopping at b&b's or youth hostels they should have no objection to you charging your bike each night, especially if you offer a contribution for the small amount of electricity you will consume.Depending on the model you may be able to recharge your battery in the room or you may need to take a small extension cable with you to recharge it on the bike. Even if you are camping, the site may recharge it for you for a fee. In theory there is no reason you couldnt pay for a hook up pitch and charge it yourself via your tent. You may need a trailer for all this kit and milage would be low as stated many people are happy covering 20 - 30 a day, easily doable if you choose your model carefully. There are ways around this problem and the main thing is you'd be back in the wild outdoors with the wind in your helmet!


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## RedBike (14 Aug 2010)

stetI have a trailer thats a clone of a bob trailer. I've never tried to take it on a train though! I'm a bit worried about what happens to the battery consumption when you put a trailer/ set of panniers on the back of the bike. 20-30miles is acceptable (just) when combined with the train but if I can only get 5-10miles then I might have a problem.


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## Arch (14 Aug 2010)

These guys were at the Prestiegne electric bike show:

http://www.cytronex.com/

You'll have to dig about on the site to find out about range - they seem to be most interested in plugging the speed and the lightwieght. At the moment, they make up the kit on Cannondales, but they say a retrofit kit will be available later in the year, so it could be fitted to a bike suited to touring, as opposed to being a purpose made electric bikes - many of which are more sit up and beg.

A 'side-effect' of their set up is that it's very discrete - the battery looks like a water bottle, and the motor is in a hub, so unless you know what you're looking at, you probably don't think it's electric....


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## andym (14 Aug 2010)

I met someone (OK that's got to be an admission that this isn't very reliable info) who said that electric bikes have a range of 35 kilometres. OK not a lot., but better than nothing if it's your only option. as well as hostels/hotels, if you carry the right plug and cable there'd be nothing to stop you recharging at a campsite. I don't understand why would you need a trailer to carry a short length of cable.


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## Banjo (14 Aug 2010)

OK your mileage is going to be limited but I think its a great idea.A guy I know has a Kalkhof electric bike. Seems a good bit of kit and can be pedalled almost as easilly as a normal hybrid.

Kalkhoff

I didnt even realize what it was at first sight.

I think you will need to travel light though, lugging a trailer is bound to knock the batteries daily mileage.


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## Brains (14 Aug 2010)

Charging up devices is nearly always possible at YHA's and camp sites, you just need to ensure you have a selection of plugs, as a caravan socket is different to a standard plug.

I have done a vast amount of camping over the last few decades, often with 'youth' who "need" their devices changing, and I need my walkie talkies to I can keep in touch with other Leaders. We have not been above waiting for caravaner's to switch off the satellite TV and and the bread oven and then put in our caravan plug, extension cable, and 6 way power block and then get up early to swap the plugs back again. Likewise, nipping into the local swimming pool, library, pub, railway station, café, etc and "borrowing" a socket for a few hours


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## billflat12 (15 Aug 2010)

e bikes usually have a range between 20-40mls depending on your effort, charge times usually from 2-8hrs etc, maybe a gruber assist would make things easier. available as retrofit , has off and on switch + (turbo button) on the bars, designed to fit inside a seat-tube driving your bottom bracket, making use of all your normal gears. 

see: http://www.gruberass...tegory/englisch 

uk dealer: http://www.electricmountainbikes.com/*ssist*


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## Spokesmann (15 Aug 2010)

If you are going to cycle, do it properly and lose the electrics.


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## Arch (15 Aug 2010)

Spokesmann said:


> If you are going to cycle, do it properly and lose the electrics.



That's really helpful. Did you read the thread at all? Are you aware of Redbike's injury problems?

If you've nothing helpful to add, don't waste the pixels.


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## BenScoobert (15 Aug 2010)

I read a review of this somewhere, but I can't find it now. I recall it was a great review, not sure wheelies is the best or cheapest place to buy it but may be worth a look.

Another thing to consider is supporting the ankle more, what about more of a boot which you can strap tightly for more support, possibly even with cleats to hold your foot straight on the pedal. This may be worse, but you don't know until you try I guess.


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## ufkacbln (15 Aug 2010)

BenScoobert said:


> I read a review of this somewhere, but I can't find it now. I recall it was a great review, not sure wheelies is the best or cheapest place to buy it but may be worth a look.
> 
> Another thing to consider is supporting the ankle more, what about more of a boot which you can strap tightly for more support, possibly even with cleats to hold your foot straight on the pedal. This may be worse, but you don't know until you try I guess.



The problem to overcome is going to be weight and cost

A to B Magazine lists a whole lot of electric bikes and tests them on a mixed hilly course to get a realistic assessment of range.

The quick answer would be to carry two batteries and change over when the first drains, but as I stated this is expensive and heavy!


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## BenScoobert (15 Aug 2010)

Cunobelin said:


> The problem to overcome is going to be weight and cost
> 
> A to B Magazine lists a whole lot of electric bikes and tests them on a mixed hilly course to get a realistic assessment of range.
> 
> The quick answer would be to carry two batteries and change over when the first drains, but as I stated this is expensive and heavy!



I have to admit I like the bottle shape battery idea, plus rear batteries too, you could sure get some amp hours stored and new lithiums are great, if expensive.


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## RedBike (16 Aug 2010)

> If you are going to cycle, do it properly and lose the electrics.


Believe me i've tried. I've even tried pulling one crank off and just having a peg to put my foot on. 
I've been told to leave the bike alone for the next 6-9months to let things recover. This is clearly never going to happen. In fact I lasted just 2 days before I tried to ride. 

Apparently my ankle is now more like the one on the left than the one on the right (Not that I can tell). This effectively means that when I ride (or walk) i'm getting hip, knee and even back ache. These arch inserts i've just found are really helping to straighten me up but until i'm fully recovered I need a bit of a helping hand with pedalling. 











> I have to admit I like the bottle shape battery idea, plus rear batteries too, you could sure get some amp hours stored and new lithiums are great, if expensive.



I've found several companies selling 1000w wheels with controllers for about ~£200, which isn't too bad. The main problem / cost with the conversion is the batteries!


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## andym (16 Aug 2010)

RedBike said:


> I've been told to leave the bike alone for the next 6-9months to let things recover. This is clearly never going to happen. In fact I lasted just 2 days before I tried to ride.




Hmm. I thought that even electric bikes required some pedalling - so more a question of motor-assisted.

I can imagine how hard it might be, but possibly it might be better to listen to the doctors - 6-9 months is a long time, but better than being told you can never ride again.

Arch - well said.


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## adamjones (17 Aug 2010)

You don't need an electic bike RB. 

Just leave those stupid direct drive bikes at home and use a proper bike for once.


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## andym (17 Aug 2010)

adamjones said:


> You don't need an electic bike RB.
> 
> Just leave those stupid direct drive bikes at home and use a proper bike for once.



See Arch's post above. If you can't be bothered to read the thread why waste your time (and everyone else's) by posting?


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## adamjones (17 Aug 2010)

andym said:


> See Arch's post above. If you can't be bothered to read the thread why waste your time (and everyone else's) by posting?



Don't worry I know Jon (RB) very well. 

Imo Red doesn’t need electrical assistance. He is an unbelievably fit rider. He just needs to be patient and let his leg heal. 



When he is strong enough to ride then he needs to start riding a normal geared bike instead of those direct drive fixed wheel abominations of his.


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## andym (17 Aug 2010)

adamjones said:


> Don't worry I know Jon (RB) very well.
> 
> Imo Red doesn’t need electrical assistance. He is an unbelievably fit rider. He just needs to be patient and let his leg heal.
> 
> When he is strong enough to ride then he needs to start riding a normal geared bike instead of those direct drive fixed wheel abominations of his.



Yep that sounds like it's probably good advice ...

Sorry for getting stroppy with you.


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## Arch (18 Aug 2010)

andym said:


> Hmm. I thought that even electric bikes required some pedalling - so more a question of motor-assisted.



There are two sorts. Some (called pedelecs) require pedalling - the motor won't cut in unless the pedals are turning. Some can be operated purely via a throttle, usually a twist grip type. My morning commute nemesis is a woman on one of these, who glides along the riverside path at 17-18 mph, just ahead of me, only pedalling for the slight gradient up and over the Millennium Bridge. Once, I caught and overtook her, and stayed ahead though it nearly killed me, but the last few times I've seen her, I've just not had the oomph.

How hard you have to pedal to get the help on a pedelec varies, I think. On a throttle type, it would be possible to ride it like a motorbike, and just turn the pedals very lightly, with little or no resistance. It would perhaps at least keep the joints moving - although this might not be a good idea, if RB really really ought to just rest.


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## Chekmx (26 Aug 2010)

RedBike said:


> Ok. I know my range is going to be severally hampered, but is it possible?
> Is there such a thing as an electric touring bike?
> 
> Due to an injury I'm having major trouble with the gears/ weight of my motorbike and I can't get very far at all on a standard bike.


Yes there is a german brand that does a bike speciically for touring but I forget the name. I will try to find it. Also kalkhoff have announced there 2011 range and this includes a new 18ah battery with a range of upto 140km although this is with minimum assist levels and is only pedelec.
Have you tried posting your query at www.pedelecs.co.uk?


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## Bike Matt (25 Aug 2012)

The good news is that with modern advances in lithium batteries you can get a decent range in a relatively light weight battery. I do my 30 mile a day (15 miles each way including a 10% hill) on a single charge with a 36v 16ah battery. There is plenty left at the end of the day so if I wasn't able to pedal I would still get the ride done. Batteries are light enough now that you can carry a spare for touring if you want to double the range (but bear in mind costs!). 

In the UK you don't need to pedal to get the electric bike to work, you are allowed a throttle. If you ride in Europe then you are only allowed a 'pedal assist' bike so bear this in mind if you tour abroad. 

Also bear in mind the legal speed and power limitations for the country you ride in. In the UK for example you can have up to 250 watts of continuous power and are limited to 25kph (15.6mph). 

And to Adamjones and Spokesmann who are all to quick to judge electric bikes: Please consider those who would like to cycle more but are unable to like the OP. Would you rather live in a world where they are excluded from the activity they love? And what about commuters? Many people don't have shower facilities where they work and an electric bike means commuting without the need for a change of cloths. Would you rather ride your non electrics on roads filled with electric bikes or sucking in the exhaust fumes from cars with just one person in them on their way to work? 

For the record I regularly ride my Wilier Triestina Le Roi in 100 mile sportives but I use my electric bike for commuting so I don't have to change at work. I arrive fresh, I'm never late because of traffic and I start and end my day on my bike. Life is sweet


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## climo (5 Sep 2012)

RedBike said:


> Believe me i've tried. I've even tried pulling one crank off and just having a peg to put my foot on.
> I've been told to leave the bike alone for the next 6-9months to let things recover. This is clearly never going to happen. In fact I lasted just 2 days before I tried to ride.
> 
> Apparently my ankle is now more like the one on the left than the one on the right (Not that I can tell). This effectively means that when I ride (or walk) i'm getting hip, knee and even back ache. These arch inserts i've just found are really helping to straighten me up but until i'm fully recovered I need a bit of a helping hand with pedalling.
> ...


Go to a proper podiatrist and get custom made orthotic insoles. They'll really help.


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## AndyPeace (9 Sep 2012)

RedBike said:


> Believe me i've tried. I've even tried pulling one crank off and just having a peg to put my foot on.
> I've been told to leave the bike alone for the next 6-9months to let things recover. This is clearly never going to happen. In fact I lasted just 2 days before I tried to ride.
> 
> Apparently my ankle is now more like the one on the left than the one on the right (Not that I can tell). This effectively means that when I ride (or walk) i'm getting hip, knee and even back ache. These arch inserts i've just found are really helping to straighten me up but until i'm fully recovered I need a bit of a helping hand with pedalling.
> ...


 
An electric touring bike is possible. I have an Alien Auroa (350w) which does can do around 40 miles on my battery set up (2x 36v 10ah batteries). Milage is dependant on terrain, Hills will sap the battery big time! The biggest problem you will have (especially if its a home conversion) is reliability... if it breaks down, your stuck (full set up without luggage my electric bike is well over 25kg)... with so little support in the uk you'll struggle to find a bike shop able to repair... so you will need a good knowledge of your set up, how to diagnose electrical problems and where to get parts from. Cheap electronics and batteries = low or no technical support, poor reliabilty and a lack of hardiness in wet weather! When they work they're great fun, but trying to peadal a 25kg bike with an inactive electric hub is not going to bring any joy.

Although in day to day life a prosuction is unlikley, any electric bike over 250w is illegal in the uk ( they need to be registeded/licenced in the same way cars and moterbikes are.. should you be in accident you will be serious legal trouble (technically you are riding an unregistered motor vehical, without insurance, mot etc). Any electric bike over 250w cannot be insured for road use in the uk so you'll be vunerable in so many ways.

Could you not combine train and carefully selected routes that won't be beyond your recovering bodies abilities?


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## albion (9 Sep 2012)

The standard way to do it is to have a touring trailer with a battery in the trailer and using a front wheel motor.

Obviously a 100 mile range can be achieved.


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## AndyPeace (9 Sep 2012)

albion said:


> The standard way to do it is to have a touring trailer with a battery in the trailer and using a front wheel motor.
> 
> Obviously a 100 mile range can be achieved.


 
Curious, why a front wheel motor... I was under the impresion this offers less torque thus less hill climbing ability. As far as I know front wheel motors are used because its easier to do a conversion this way.. Less hassle as it doesn't involve the bikes gearing. And 'where did you get the 100 mile quota from? experince or hearsay?


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## albion (9 Sep 2012)

It is an easier DIY route and fairly straight forward.
Batteries are always a compromise.
LiFeP04 being by far the most robust but heavier than less stable lithium ones.

I researched it when my knee problems gave me a break from cycling but never went ahead.
The trailer and front wheel makes for quick change over to/from a normal bike.


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## ufkacbln (9 Sep 2012)

My wife rides a BIonx equipped bike, and we had this fitted with a throttle. You have to be moving to trigger the assist, but the system works well for us. It is rear wheel fitted

The Bionx has 4 levels of assist and a throttle so you can select how much help you need.

We did our first "tour" on it round the Isle of Wight, two 35 mile days, and on a single battery, recharged at night. However this milage will be variable on weight carried, hilliness and the amount of assist used.!


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## AndyPeace (9 Sep 2012)

Hmm.. lithium ion batteries and lifepo4 batteries are pretty equal weight wise... and on reliability. lifepo4 are just less harrardous to the enviroment, their is lots of hype about lifepo4, but its main advantage is it can be made into any shape. Their are other less expensive batteries from lead acid batteries to Nihim batteries as well as a variety of lithium chemistries. Not all batteries are the same 2 36v 15ah batterties can perform differently depending on their C rating (which describes how much power can be delivered at any one time). To ride 100 miles you would need to invest at least £1k into buying batteries, more if you want reliability and reasonable warranties . . I have ridden both front wheel and rear wheel drive. rear wheel drive is far superiour on climbing and carrying loads. Any motor above 250w needs thought about the frame your building on. Either way a touring bike conversion is gonna cost a good weight of notes. Interesting thought about swapping the wheel back to a normal bike, but this would be as simple for the rear wheel. Given we're talking about a touring bike, I'm guessing the guy won't be carrying a spare wheel?


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## albion (9 Sep 2012)

AM sure ones I had checked out seemed to have a 30% weight premium.
Price was also premium so that £1000 is maybe about right now. 

Ready made bikes often use cheaper unstable lithium ones.


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## AndyPeace (9 Sep 2012)

Its been a few years since I looked into batteries, so maybe things have moved on and your right. However, the quality of a battery depends on many things. Cell voltages must be carefully balanced and ever increasing sophistication in electronics helps maintain a batteries health. Wisper bikes have a link to a blog on a 'world tour ' on electric bikes , with a solar panel attached to the trailer.







Given the climate in the UK, I doubt solar panels would be effective... I wonder if rain can be used as a renewable energy source? Despite owning an electric bike I have to say any touring I do will not be on an electric bike, but they are good fun....


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## zac 64 (10 Sep 2012)

my wife has a freego electric bike which is pedal assist with 3 power levels and can also be powered by battery only (motorcycle type throttle) which you could use for a short rest from pedalling. the battery lives behind seat post and lifts out for charging.does 40-50 miles depending on how much you help it!


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