# Lorry with build in table kills cyclist.



## tom73 (5 Oct 2019)

https://road.cc/content/news/267275...st-had-installed-dashboard-tray-table-blocked

You can’t make this stuff up...

Admits it was not good idea but clueless as to why he killed the cyclist 

mind boggles


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## annedonnelly (5 Oct 2019)

But why can you even buy a tray to fit on a dashboard? You're supposed to drive a vehicle not have a picnic or do your homework or the crossword while on the move.


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## Brains (5 Oct 2019)

annedonnelly said:


> But why can you even buy a tray to fit on a dashboard? You're supposed to drive a vehicle not have a picnic or do your homework or the crossword while on the move.



Unfortunately its not illegal to sell illegal add on's to vehicles.
It's only illegal to be on the road with such items.
Hence, if you read another report of this incident the company transport manager told him to remove the table prior to the incident as it would constitute a MOT failure.

I'm sure I can buy chariot wheel scythes somewhere and fit them to my HGV, I mean what could possibly go wrong ?


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## Slick (5 Oct 2019)

Sounds like a homemade job or maybe something you can buy at the truck stop. The scania has a large flat area to the drivers left so there is lots of room but I assume that this obscured the drivers vision so it must be pretty huge. I've driven that road a number of times and it's pretty ordinary with nothing particularly dangerous that I can think of. How does the driver think its a 50 50 thing, does it mention anywhere in what way he is trying to blame the cyclist?


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## Drago (5 Oct 2019)

Proof that lorry drivers should be given an IQ test before unleashed on the world.


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## welsh dragon (5 Oct 2019)

Just goes to show that some people should never be allowed to drive any kind of vehicle. It beggars belief.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Oct 2019)

Words fail me. What an utter tragedy.


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## Cycleops (5 Oct 2019)

As @Drago says they are not the brightest or most responsible bunch and in this case it led to to a cyclist's needless death. Tragic.


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## Levo-Lon (5 Oct 2019)

When travaling on a big coach you see exactly what some of these so called professionals get upto in their HGVs.
Shocking behaviour


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## HLaB (5 Oct 2019)

Stands to reason though, if you can't see something you can't hit it; oh he did


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## Bonefish Blues (5 Oct 2019)

Six of one and half dozen of the other. In no way whatsoever is it anything like that.

Substitute "completely my fault" lorry man.


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## derrick (5 Oct 2019)

The idiot should not be behind any type of wheel. Will be interesting to see what justice is handed out,


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## Bonefish Blues (5 Oct 2019)

derrick said:


> The idiot should not be behind any type of wheel. Will be interesting to see what justice is handed out,


It's such a stupid set of things to say that one wonders if he's been told to act the stupid part - but he's so good, one must wonder if it's innate.


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## johnnyb47 (5 Oct 2019)

I regularly have to chaperone trucks in my work, which involves jumping in the passenger seat and directing the drivers where to go. I'm often surprised by the amount of dashboard clutter they have. Huge trays covered in paperwork and opened laptops. Without being prejudiced i find foreign trucks the worst. Some of there dash boards really raise an eyebrow. There windscreens are covered with somtimes two sat navs, tracking devices and numerous stick on identity discs, for passing through different countries and ports. That's not to mention all the personal clutter they have. Spanish and Romanian truckers also seem to like fitting those tassled pelmets across to top of the windows too. With all this window furniture going on you can see how blind spots can arise and how detracting it could be, driving a great big trucks like these


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## tom73 (5 Oct 2019)

It’s the “six of one and half dozen of the other” comment that’s just sounds like a throw away one.
Which sticks in the mind sums up attitudes he may as well have said so what who cares.
To think people mean that little to other people is quite shocking and equally pretty sad affair for society.


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## steve292 (5 Oct 2019)

Why isn't the company in court as well? If they had seen it and just told him to tidy it up as an MOT failure, as the road cc piece would seem to say, surely they have failed in their duty of care?


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## Bonefish Blues (5 Oct 2019)

Oh and whilst we're at it, can the thread title be changed to something more accurate? AFAIK lorries neither fit their own accessories nor drive themselves into cyclists causing their death.


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## Phaeton (5 Oct 2019)

Cycleops said:


> As @Drago says they are not the brightest or most responsible bunch


Thank you for that very sweeping statement, any white man who lives in Africa is a slaver, how does that sound to you?


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## Slick (5 Oct 2019)

tom73 said:


> It’s the “six of one and half dozen of the other” comment that’s just sounds like a throw away one.
> Which sticks in the mind sums up attitudes he may as well have said so what who cares.
> To think people mean that little to other people is quite shocking and equally pretty sad affair for society.


I agree, truly sickening.


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## Slick (5 Oct 2019)

steve292 said:


> Why isn't the company in court as well? If they had seen it and just told him to tidy it up as an MOT failure, as the road cc piece would seem to say, surely they have failed in their duty of care?


The law is quite clear and happy to go after individuals especially when most companies are now more protected than ever when they never actually did anything wrong.


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## Cycleops (5 Oct 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Thank you for that very sweeping statement, any white man who lives in Africa is a slaver, how does that sound to you?


Let me guess you're a lorry driver? Slavery from Africa died out a long time ago but driving is still an occupation that still seems to attract some less than bright individuals as evidenced here. I apologise for the sweeping statement.


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## Phaeton (5 Oct 2019)

Cycleops said:


> Let me guess you're a lorry driver?


Not for over 10 years, but there are some very educated people driving 


Cycleops said:


> Slavery from Africa died out a long time ago


The fact we have slavery in the UK means I doubt very much it has died out in Africa


Cycleops said:


> I apologise for the sweeping statement.


I accept it, although I'm not sure you really mean it


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## lane (5 Oct 2019)

I don't know about the rules linking to other forums on here - but if you check out threads about cyclists on a UK trucking forum you might be shocked.


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## Smudge (5 Oct 2019)

Cycleops said:


> Let me guess you're a lorry driver? Slavery from Africa died out a long time ago but driving is still an occupation that still seems to attract some less than bright individuals as evidenced here. I apologise for the sweeping statement.



The emphasis being 'some'..... and you could say that about most occupations and professions.
You could also say it about other road users, including cyclists. So don't restrict your generalisations to just truckers.


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## raleighnut (6 Oct 2019)

What a total ar$e


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## steveindenmark (6 Oct 2019)

I was a truck driver for many years. They are not all as thick as bricks. The driver in the dock is. Drivers are people, just like cyclists, some do stupid things. He bought a tray to be one of the lads. What a prat. At least the lads will hopefully be ditching their trays now.


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## rogerzilla (6 Oct 2019)

ISTR a case of a lorry driver caught driving while watching blue movies on a TV propped on his dashboard.


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## Stephenite (6 Oct 2019)

I've known and worked with plenty of HGV drivers over the years. They come in all varieties. One of mates who is a full-time computer programmer for a large organisation dallied with it for a while.

This fella ought to be banned for life from operating anything larger than a wheelbarrow.


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

I remember this from when the case hit the court.
She was a doctor at the children’s hospital and was riding in the cycle lane, the lorry turned left and dragged her underneath. Completely the lorry drivers fault as he could not see properly due to his own modifications that made the vehicle dangerous to drive and unroadworthy, therefore illegal!
Jail for death by dangerous driving and I will be very surprised if there is a different outcome.
Real sad bit is I think it happened a couple of years ago and I think it has only gone to court this year.


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## lane (6 Oct 2019)

Stephenite said:


> I've known and worked with plenty of HGV drivers over the years. They come in all varieties. One of mates who is a full-time computer programmer for a large organisation dallied with it for a while.
> 
> This fella ought to be banned for life from operating anything larger than a wheelbarrow.



I'm sure your are correct. However reading some UK trucking forums is not a great advert for HGV drivers and their opinion on cyclists and the value of their lives is worrying.


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## Pale Rider (6 Oct 2019)

lane said:


> I'm sure your are correct. However reading some UK trucking forums is not a great advert for HGV drivers and their opinion on cyclists and the value of their lives is worrying.



I suppose there are keyboard warriors on truck forums as there are elsewhere.

Lorry drivers, and some cyclists, do have a bunker mentality.


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## theclaud (6 Oct 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> I suppose there are keyboard warriors on truck forums as there are elsewhere.
> 
> Lorry drivers, *and some cyclists, do have a bunker mentality.*


A 'bunker mentality', you say? And roughly how many lorry drivers are killed by cyclists each year?


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

There are some extremely good lorry drivers about though, some that have reactions and driving skills that save plenty of clueless cyclists lives.
This crazy and extremely lucky idiot from where I work springs to mind, him and his child are only still breathing thanks to the drivers reactions:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1066874/Cyclist-accident-roundabout-Surrey-Weybridge-lorry-toddler-seat?


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## johnnyb47 (6 Oct 2019)

Absolutely, Like everything in life there's good and bad in all walks of life. I deal with around 200 hgv drivers every week and mostly there highly professional in there job. Sadly it only takes one laxed driver though to cause catastrophic damage to someone's life.


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

johnnyb47 said:


> Absolutely, Like everything in life there's good and bad in all walks of life. I deal with around 200 hgv drivers every week and mostly there highly professional in there job. Sadly it only takes one laxed driver though to cause catastrophic damage to someone's life.


I’m in logistics too and most of the drivers I encounter are very professional. My dad was an hgv driver for over 50 years with only one accident, when a stupid car driver decided to undertake him going around a roundabout. Luckily no one was hurt in that, apart from the car drivers pants but he murdered them himself!


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## lane (6 Oct 2019)

theclaud said:


> I suppose there are keyboard warriors on truck forums as there are elsewhere.
> 
> Lorry drivers, and some cyclists, do have a bunker mentality.



Maybe. But in the forum I have looked at I would say it seems the prevailing attitude not a minority.


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## cambiker71 (6 Oct 2019)

Skanker said:


> There are some extremely good lorry drivers about though, some that have reactions and driving skills that save plenty of clueless cyclists lives.
> This crazy and extremely lucky idiot from where I work springs to mind, him and his child are only still breathing thanks to the drivers reactions:
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1066874/Cyclist-accident-roundabout-Surrey-Weybridge-lorry-toddler-seat?


I agreed fully to start with, but watch it again with the sound turned up! The truck that the camera is in, is far to the left going up to a 3 way roundabout, cyclist is overtaking turning right. Only after the cyclist passed and the horn had been sounded did the lorry driver indicate his intentions to turn from the left of the lane to turn right, you can clearly hear the indicators start to click after he has joined the roundabout area just after the swearing. Granted the cyclist wasn't thinking much about oncoming traffic either so was also very much in the wrong.


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

cambiker71 said:


> I agreed fully to start with, but watch it again with the sound turned up! The truck that the camera is in, is far to the left going up to a 3 way roundabout, cyclist is overtaking turning right. Only after the cyclist passed and the horn had been sounded did the lorry driver indicate his intentions to turn from the left of the lane to turn right, you can clearly hear the indicators start to click after he has joined the roundabout area just after the swearing. Granted the cyclist wasn't thinking much about oncoming traffic either so was also very much in the wrong.


You are looking at the wrong lorry, it’s the big red one that has to use quick thinking to prevent driving right over the cyclist as he swung out to overtake the stationary camera lorry who had obviously pulled far left to let the red one come around the roundabout.


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## cambiker71 (6 Oct 2019)

Skanker said:


> You are looking at the wrong lorry, it’s the big red one that has to use quick thinking to prevent driving right over the cyclist as he swung out to overtake the stationary camera lorry who had obviously pulled far left to let the red one come around the roundabout.


Got you, yes he's the good one here!


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

cambiker71 said:


> Got you, yes he's the good one here!


That guy and his poor child are very lucky it was a good driver. He is definitely not doing much in the name of cyclists or responsible fathers.
That’s a 50+ ton tipper truck!
You would hope to go quickly if that drove over you. I think you would need a man with a jet wash to come and deal with you rather than an ambulance!


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## theclaud (6 Oct 2019)

Looking out for people so as not to crush them to death is not some kind of special extra service - it's the bare minimum that should be expected from a person operating anything that dangerous in a public space. And that includes looking out for people who make foolish manouevres (although of course in most cases where people are killed and injured by drivers the victim is not doing anything untoward or unusual). Pedestrians and cyclists slipping through small spaces amongst things, whether well or badly judged, is what happens in all urban areas where there are lots of people going about their business. It may be nervewracking for drivers, but tough - it is those who are operating the vehicles that bring the extraordinary danger to the situation that need to adapt - if they can't, then they are not fit to share public space.


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## Skanker (6 Oct 2019)

theclaud said:


> Looking out for people so as not to crush them to death is not some kind of special extra service - it's the bare minimum that should be expected from a person operating anything that dangerous in a public space. And that includes looking out for people who make foolish manouevres (although of course in most cases where people are killed and injured by drivers the victim is not doing anything untoward or unusual). Pedestrians and cyclists slipping through small spaces amongst things, whether well or badly judged, is what happens in all urban areas where there are lots of people going about their business. It may be nervewracking for drivers, but tough - it is those who are operating the vehicles that bring the extraordinary danger to the situation that need to adapt - if they can't, then they are not fit to share public space.


Vehicles can’t be stopped instantly, no matter how good the driver is or how well they are driving. 
If something goes wrong in front of a vehicle, and even if that drivers reacts instantly and does everything perfectly, it might not be physically possible for that vehicle to stop in the distance that you are from them.
It’s not a matter of what they do, it has too many variables to guarantee that things won’t end terribly, and you can’t just say that the driver should have been able to avoid it or they shouldn’t be on the road!


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## theclaud (6 Oct 2019)

Skanker said:


> *Vehicles can’t be stopped instantly*, no matter how good the driver is or how well they are driving.
> If something goes wrong in front of a vehicle, and even if that drivers reacts instantly and does everything perfectly, it might not be physically possible for that vehicle to stop in the distance that you are from them.
> It’s not a matter of what they do, it has too many variables to guarantee that things won’t end terribly, and you can’t just say that the driver should have been able to avoid it or they shouldn’t be on the road!


Neither can pedestrians or cyclists materialise out of thin air. But everyone can proceed in such a manner that they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear, and everyone can wait to make a manouevre until anyone they would otherwise squash is out of the way. The point is that the driver in the case to which this thread pertains deliberately limited his ability to do either, and killed someone as a result. It would be a relief if we could make it through just one of the numerous threads about lorry drivers and other motorists killing people through negligence or stupidity or aggression or all three without someone invoking the irrelevant misdemeanours of unrelated cyclists and entreating us to think of the poor drivers. It was easy for Bradbury to kill Bull because the standards to which lorries are routinely driven is nowhere near good enough for them to be trusted to share the roads. Cyclists simply don't kill drivers, so it's neither useful nor appropriate to focus on cyclist behaviour here.


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## slowmotion (7 Oct 2019)

theclaud said:


> Neither can pedestrians or cyclists materialise out of thin air. But everyone can proceed in such a manner that they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear, and everyone can wait to make a manouevre until anyone they would otherwise squash is out of the way. The point is that the driver in the case to which this thread pertains deliberately limited his ability to do either, and killed someone as a result. It would be a relief if we could make it through just one of the numerous threads about lorry drivers and other motorists killing people through negligence or stupidity or aggression or all three without someone invoking the irrelevant misdemeanours of unrelated cyclists and entreating us to think of the poor drivers. It was easy for Bradbury to kill Bull because the standards to which lorries are routinely driven is nowhere near good enough for them to be trusted to share the roads. Cyclists simply don't kill drivers, so it's neither useful nor appropriate to focus on cyclist behaviour here.


This not in any way a comment on the doctor's death, just one on your post above.
Here's a driver who reacted pretty well to sudden circumstances. Some will say that he should have anticipated the event because there was a school bus ahead. My personal opinion is that we should take a tiny bit of responsibility for our own safety on the road and not delegate it to others because of a sense of righteousness, whether as a pedestrian , cyclist, or even car driver. If you do, you might get avoidably hurt.
[media]
]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44L-SOI1I8[/media]


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## raleighnut (7 Oct 2019)

slowmotion said:


> This not in any way a comment on the doctor's death, just one on your post above.
> Here's a driver who reacted pretty well to sudden circumstances. Some will say that he should have anticipated the event because there was a school bus ahead. My personal opinion is that we should take a tiny bit of responsibility for our own safety on the road and not delegate it to others because of a sense of righteousness, whether as a pedestrian , cyclist, or even car driver. If you do, you might get avoidably hurt.
> [media]
> ]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44L-SOI1I8[/media]


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## Drago (7 Oct 2019)

slowmotion said:


> This not in any way a comment on the doctor's death, just one on your post above.
> Here's a driver who reacted pretty well to sudden circumstances. Some will say that he should have anticipated the event because there was a school bus ahead. My personal opinion is that we should take a tiny bit of responsibility for our own safety on the road and not delegate it to others because of a sense of righteousness, whether as a pedestrian , cyclist, or even car driver. If you do, you might get avoidably hurt.
> [media]
> ]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44L-SOI1I8[/media]





Good point, well made. 

However, the example cited in the video also shows a lorry driver not driving at a speed appropriate to his lack of view through a solid bus, so perhaps not the best.


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## theclaud (7 Oct 2019)

slowmotion said:


> This not in any way a comment on the doctor's death, just one on your post above.
> Here's a driver who reacted pretty well to sudden circumstances. Some will say that he should have anticipated the event because there was a school bus ahead. My personal opinion is that we should take a tiny bit of responsibility for our own safety on the road and not delegate it to others because of a sense of righteousness, whether as a pedestrian , cyclist, or even car driver. If you do, you might get avoidably hurt.
> [media]
> ]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44L-SOI1I8[/media]



It's just as well his reactions and control are good, as he's driving too fast. Had he been going half the speed, the video would be altogether less hair-raising. As you say, it's not rocket science to anticipate children near a stopped school bus. And no, I don't think schoolchildren are responsible for preventing lorry drivers running them over. I think we have a collective responsibility not to kill them with heavy machinery, and that that responsibility is absolute.


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## Milkfloat (7 Oct 2019)

In the US most states have a 'stop law' that requires traffic behind and in front to stop when a school bus is dropping off passengers. They are not all bad.


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## Skanker (7 Oct 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> In the US most states have a 'stop law' that requires traffic behind and in front to stop when a school bus is dropping off passengers. They are not all bad.


That’s a superb law!
We could do with that in the uk as children are injured/killed outside schools way too often, even with the slow driving speed limits we have in place currently.


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## RichK (9 Oct 2019)

Been found guilty of careless driving 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49976048


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## Drago (9 Oct 2019)

Death by Careless is a travesty. Even if you're driving sensibly it can still be Dangerous Driving simply because your vehicle is in a poor or inappropriate state.

BTW, he's a bit of a mess considering he's the same age as me. Is that what driving a lorry does to you?


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## tom73 (9 Oct 2019)

You make a choice to drive a vehicle with an illegal modification and in such a way that kill's someone and some how that's just being careless. Oh came on it's total madness dropping crumbs all over the carpet after you've just cleaned up is careless. This is a human life we are talking about.


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## Blue Hills (9 Oct 2019)

Brains said:


> Unfortunately its not illegal to sell illegal add on's to vehicles.



Rings true.

Years ago (this was before the compact mobile age) at a trade exhibition I came across a company selling a full size computer keyboard (nice moving clicking keys as well) built into a steering wheel.

"Isn't it dangerous?" I asked the proud distributor.

Not at all he reckoned.

I never figured out why you would want such a thing.


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## tom73 (7 Dec 2019)

update .... 

This just get's worse now it come's out the company knew that it was removed to pass MOT's then put back.
Plead guilty to failing in duty under HandS fined £112,500 and £3,000 in costs.
It's a joke 1st the driver showed in court he can't give a fig now this. 

https://road.cc/content/news/269329...d-dashboard-tray-table-jailed-killing-cyclist

Look in comments and you see what he thought was ok to driving round with.


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## Smudge (7 Dec 2019)

Amazing that he thought it was ok to have all that crap obstructing the screen. I see he has an in cab airline suzie as well, i thought that was an 80's/90's thing to have one of those to blow the dust off your dash.


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## tom73 (7 Dec 2019)

The other thing is he's more than likely not the only one who thinks it's ok either.


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## Smudge (7 Dec 2019)

tom73 said:


> The other thing is he's more than likely not the only one who thinks it's ok either.



Definitely not. In fact i've seen even more windscreen tassels than that on truck screens, plus windscreen flags & banners stuck on with suckers.


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## lane (7 Dec 2019)

Side curtains pulled partly obscuring windows often with the aim of stopping police see in. At this time if year Xmas decorations.


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## Smudge (7 Dec 2019)

I never had any of that crap obscuring my windscreen when i was trucking, too distracting.
I had enough to do when driving a wagon, like being on the phone, tuning the radio or putting CD's in, pouring tea out of my flask, being on the CB, reading maps, eating sandwiches crisps and Yorkie bars. Also trying to spot good looking women in other vehicles. Plus reading the many dials and gauges on my dash, half of which i didn't even understand.
Its not an easy life being a professional LGV driver.


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## Slick (7 Dec 2019)

I did a bit in an LGV in relation to another job in another life and I would be too embarrassed by the things I used to do and believe were right whilst in control of one of those things. I was lucky to escape without incident but I know what goes on and give them a wide berth.


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## Smudge (7 Dec 2019)

Slick said:


> I did a bit in an LGV in relation to another job in another life and I would be too embarrassed by the things I used to do and believe were right whilst in control of one of those things. I was lucky to escape without incident but I know what goes on and give them a wide berth.



Knocked one out whilst driving ?
Yeah, we all did that..... you can always see a pack of tissues on the dash of a truck


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## Slick (7 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> Knocked one out whilst driving ?
> Yeah, we all did that..... you can always see a pack of tissues on the dash of a truck


Nah, not my thing.


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## Smudge (7 Dec 2019)




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