# Feeling giddy. Blacked out. Anyone else?



## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

Commuting home on Thursday (7 of 8 miles) my vision went very peculiar, not so much that I couldn't see things more I couldn't make sense of them. Eventually it got so bad I had to pull over and stop and thats the last thing I remember before coming round surrounded by paramedics about 30mts along the pavement from where I pulled over.
Perhaps my food intake wasn't adequate (cereal 12hrs before, 4pieces fruit 10hrs before, packet of fruit pastilles 3hrs before) and I suspect that my caffeine intake is higher than it aught to be so neither of these would help but surely not enough on their own. I also wondered if my head had got too cold, my helmet has vents and ducts to channel cooling air which is fine in the summer but on a cold day could the effect become detrimental?
Apparently certain symptoms suggest cardiac arrhythmia while other symptoms indicate a neurological seizure, neither of which I am too elated about. Has anyone else experienced similar symptoms or effects, I am particularly interested in the possibility and effects of excessive cooling.
Off to wrap up warm.


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## Andrew_P (6 Feb 2012)

I have to be careful at a set of lights just after a really tough climb , my HR plummets if I am caught at the lights and I get light headed whilst waiting.

Had you just made a big climb or 90-100% effort just before stopping?

Read somewhere that the blood can pool quickly in the legs causing dizziness and light head felling.


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## ianrauk (6 Feb 2012)

*cereal 12hrs before, 4pieces fruit 10hrs before, packet of fruit pastilles 3hrs before*


If this is what you had to eat all day then is it any wonder?
Why are you starving yourself?


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

LOCO said:


> I have to be careful at a set of lights just after a really tough climb , my HR plummets if I am caught at the lights and I get light headed whilst waiting.
> 
> Had you just made a big climb or 90-100% effort just before stopping?
> 
> Read somewhere that the blood can pool quickly in the legs causing dizziness and light head felling.


 
No big climbs of any description around here but I had just had the exciting bit of my commute through town.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

ianrauk said:


> *cereal 12hrs before, 4pieces fruit 10hrs before, packet of fruit pastilles 3hrs before*
> 
> 
> If this is what you had to eat all day then is it any wonder?
> Why are you starving yourself?


Fair point but not well made.
I can't be the only one who has a fairly sedentary job and needs to loose a bit of bulk after Christmas and perhaps I had gone a bit too far with the calorie reduction that day but I think 'starving myself' is more drama than fact.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

Go to docs for a check up, telling him you blacked out. If we do this we lose our licence until the reason is found, or for good. Next time you might not have time to stop, who knows what or who you could hit?


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## ianrauk (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> Fair point but not well made.
> I can't be the only one who has a fairly sedentary job and needs to loose a bit of bulk after Christmas and perhaps I had gone a bit too far with the calorie reduction that day but I think 'starving myself' is more drama than fact.


 

You have taken on barely any food/calories the whole day. I would call that starving oneself.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

Paramedics took me to A+E and I am not driving until test results are through which is a nuisance as I drive for a living. Don't get me wrong, thats exactly as it should be, but if it is an easy situation to avoid simply by wrapping my head a bit better it would be a useful bit of information to have.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

ianrauk said:


> You have taken on barely any food/calories the whole day. I would call that starving oneself.


I would call it being ineptly over cautious. Starving has the element of will power against all cotraindications that you are harming yourself.
Thats not me mister.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

I would imagine paramedics would have checked your blood sugar, and taken other things into account? So if it wasnt due to not eating enough that day, and you think a possibility might be to keep your head warm? id get in to the docs sharpish.


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## ushills (6 Feb 2012)

col said:


> Go to docs for a check up, telling him you blacked out. If we do this we lose our licence until the reason is found, or for good. Next time you might not have time to stop, who knows what or who you could hit?


 This is generally not the case or wasn't in mine, blacked out at top of stairs and broke back in the resulting fall. Doctor never suspected epilepsy and therefore no need to stop driving, has happened before when younger.

In response to the OP I also used to regularly pass out when cycling usually after stopping, would get off bike take a few breaths then lights would go out and I would wake up in some office or on the pavement with a crowd around me, must have happened 20+ times in my teens and early twenties.

Think with me it was to do with dropping blood pressure when stopping and insufficient calorie intake, I was a big lad but not fat and needed more than most.

Also, do you suffer from migraines ever?


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## Becs (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> I would call it being ineptly over cautious. Starving has the element of will power against all *cotraindications that you are harming yourself*.
> Thats not me mister.


 
You've just had one of those!!! I'm with Ian on this one. It's quite possible your symptoms were from hypogylcaemia due to not eating enough during the day (and for how many days?) - this would give you the neurological symptoms you describe. Obviously there are a bunch of other possible causes but whatever the case eating less than 600 calories in a day and trying to commute 7 or 8 miles (each way?) is pretty bloody foolish! If you want to lose weight sensibly use something like "my fitness pal" to track your calories while eating a *balanced* diet.

Incidentally I experience your pre-blackout symptoms on long rides when I don't eat enough.

The cold head warm head thing is probably b*llocks IMO


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## Linford (6 Feb 2012)

It sounds to me like you had a hypo. My blood sugar levels would be on the floor if I'd had such a small intake and then exercised in the cold.
Eating sweets like that encourages the body to produce a dollop of insulin, but because you had starved yourself, you had little glucose in your tissues or bloodstream, and little Glycogen in your liver. Fast release carbs like sweets and chocolate give only a brief boost.
I discovered I was diabetic after doing similar on an empty stomach.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

I am taking medical advice from the doctors at A+E and my own GP and I have faith in their judgement. Tests have been done or are planned in an effort to establish the how, what and why.
I simply WONDERED if anyone else had had a similar experience and to what extent excessive cooling may have contributed.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

ushills said:


> This is generally not the case or wasn't in mine, blacked out at top of stairs and broke back in the resulting fall. Doctor never suspected epilepsy and therefore no need to stop driving, has happened before when younger.
> 
> In response to the OP I also used to regularly pass out when cycling usually after stopping, would get off bike take a few breaths then lights would go out and I would wake up in some office or on the pavement with a crowd around me, must have happened 20+ times in my teens and early twenties.
> 
> ...


 
If you drive professionally for a living, you wouldnt have got your licence back until they knew why you blacked out. This is always the case . As you say, it wasnt in yours, unless you drive large vehicles or buses for a living. In which case your doc would be in serious trouble if you blacked out again at the wheel, without finding out the cause, and not informing the authourities of your previous blackout.


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## Becs (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> I am taking medical advice from the doctors at A+E and my own GP and *I have faith in their judgement*. .


 
I wouldn't trust them too much. I have a very low opinion of (most) GPs and (most) A and E doctors, with good reason. Don't be afraid to ask for a second opinion or to see a specialist.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

Thanks Becs and Linford,
That seeems to be the sort of information that I need.
I will have to try harder to have reasonable quantities of quality food around me.
That presents its own problems but it looks like more planning and will power are needed.

I'm still going to get a hat though.


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## Linford (6 Feb 2012)

I'm not suggesting you are diabetic because you had a hypo. Just that you didn't consume enough to replace that which you had burned off, or had in reserve.

A common cause of death through alcoholic poisoning is because it messes with the liver function, and limits its ability to release the sugars in the night to keep the vital organs functioning after a heavy session. The body shuts down because it has no glucose, and the booze has turned off the liver (glucose store).


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> I am taking medical advice from the doctors at A+E and my own GP and I have faith in their judgement. Tests have been done or are planned in an effort to establish the how, what and why.
> I simply WONDERED if anyone else had had a similar experience and to what extent excessive cooling may have contributed.


Ah so your already under your doc about it. Should have asked your doc if a cold head can cause it then?


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

col said:


> If you drive professionally for a living, you wouldnt have got your licence back until they knew why you blacked out. This is always the case . As you say, it wasnt in yours, unless you drive large vehicles or buses for a living. In which case your doc would be in serious trouble if you blacked out again at the wheel, without finding out the cause, and not informing the authourities of your previous blackout.


I told them I am an LGV driver and they have advised that I don't drive until the cause is established. I anticipate that should it become clear that a medical condition (eg diabetes / epilepsy) is the cause then I will need a new career but that is by no means certain at the moment.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> I told them I am an LGV driver and they have advised that I don't drive until the cause is established. I anticipate that should it become clear that a medical condition (eg diabetes / epilepsy) is the cause then I will need a new career but that is by no means certain at the moment.


 It must be more strict for passenger carrying, as your licence is revoked on the spot until the cause is found.


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## astrocan (6 Feb 2012)

I'm not sure.
On one hand I know of diabetic taxi drivers, on the other I have also heard the story about the bus driver who wanted time of to go to a football match, he was told he had to work so as he was walking across to his vehicle on the Saturday he faked a fainting fit, went to the match and lost his licence.


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## Becs (6 Feb 2012)

I think if they find a cause that can be managed effectively with drugs then you're ok once the condition is shown to be under control over the subsequent months.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> I'm not sure.
> On one hand I know of diabetic taxi drivers, on the other I have also heard the story about the bus driver who wanted time of to go to a football match, he was told he had to work so as he was walking across to his vehicle on the Saturday he faked a fainting fit, went to the match and lost his licence.


 Yes I knew a lad it nearly backfired on too. He faked a blackout to skive and it took six months to get his licence back, lucky, because they couldnt find a cause, and also couldnt find a reason either.


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## broomwagon (6 Feb 2012)

I had something similar happen to me last year....Nothing was found to be wrong, (touches wood) but I visited the Dr and after a chat about my job and eating habits, the reason for my feeling not quite right was put down to too much caffien, not eating enough during the day and not drinking enough water. It was a little obvious really when we discussed it!
Things have changed for me since then, I have lots of water, I've cut the caffeine out and I eat a decent, healthy lunch which is on top of the bit of fruit I was having before.


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## col (6 Feb 2012)

Becs said:


> I think if they find a cause that can be managed effectively with drugs then you're ok once the condition is shown to be under control over the subsequent months.


 This is true, but if its a heart condition, I think its a minimum of one year without incident.


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## guitarpete247 (6 Feb 2012)

I too have decided to do something about my weight and have gone onto a drastic reduced calorie diet. My diet however is very rigidly controlled and monitored. I started on 4 Cambridge products a day (550 calories) but these have all the vitamins/minerals I need per day. I was also told to hold off any cardiovascular exercise, not doubling my resting heartrate, or I could seriously damage heart muscles. I agree with ianrauk you are starving yourself. My diet is designed to put me in ketosis which it did and I measured it with ketostix provided by my diet consultant. 

Have you spoken to your GP about your calorie intake and asked if this could be a contributory factor into you passing out? If you have I would be surprised if they didn't warn you off this severe diet.

Is this level of food intake you have described a one-off or have you been following this regime for a while?


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## I_S (6 Feb 2012)

astrocan said:


> Commuting home on Thursday (7 of 8 miles) my vision went very peculiar, not so much that I couldn't see things more I couldn't make sense of them. Eventually it got so bad I had to pull over and stop and thats the last thing I remember before coming round surrounded by paramedics about 30mts along the pavement from where I pulled over.
> Perhaps my food intake wasn't adequate (cereal 12hrs before, 4pieces fruit 10hrs before, packet of fruit pastilles 3hrs before) and I suspect that my caffeine intake is higher than it aught to be so neither of these would help but surely not enough on their own. I also wondered if my head had got too cold, my helmet has vents and ducts to channel cooling air which is fine in the summer but on a cold day could the effect become detrimental?
> Apparently certain symptoms suggest cardiac arrhythmia while other symptoms indicate a neurological seizure, neither of which I am too elated about. Has anyone else experienced similar symptoms or effects, I am particularly interested in the possibility and effects of excessive cooling.
> Off to wrap up warm.


Did you have an ECG at hospital? 18months ago I cycled home, had a high surgar drink & collapsed walking across a busy road. No driving for 6 months, given eeg, ecg + mri scans no definite cause found. Driving allowed again. My understanding is a one off event is not uncommon - twice and there may be a pattern.


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## Miffy (6 Feb 2012)

Hi Astrocan, not sure if I can be much help on the cooling theory but I have had a few of those types of faints/blackouts when I was younger. With me I think its vasovagal as no other likely cause, I work in cardiorespiratory now so i've pretty much had a full work up self testing the equipment! definitely not diabetic either. I think with me it may have been caused by lack of sleep/exhaustion as I was working long hours in the day and nights on call. I still get the occasional light headed feeling if i've really been pushing it on the bike and then stop suddenly which I put down to a blood pressure issue as its never happened sitting or lying down (i'm certainly not an expert though). To prevent it I just cool down a bit before stopping by slowing down if I can, and by not going flat out between traffic lights. As others have said the lack of food won't help, I had a friend who would severely restrict her diet and then go and do an hour of spin class, she would faint after every class, unsurprisingly perhaps. Having said that I also knew someone (what is it with me?) who would black out suddenly and fall without warning, he had lots of neuro exams but no cause found, and was prevented from driving. Have the docs said anything about the warning signs? I thought this was more common with 'simple faints', but again i'm no expert. Good luck with finding the cause anyway, hope you feel ok now. Its no fun losing control of your own body!


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## jefmcg (7 Feb 2012)

I'm just going to back up others here. When I was leading a teenage lifestyle (running about a lot, not dieting) I discovered if I skipped a couple of meals, even though I felt fine and wasn't hungry, I'd faint. And that was standing on a tram, not cycling across the city. Later I noticed that if I hadn't eaten for a while, I'd also get pretty grumpy, when other people were ok. So, I just came to terms with being more sensitive to lower blood sugar than other people, and made sure I ate when I needed to.

That being said, now I can cycle 16 miles on a cup of white coffee: but I trust my hunger, and when I feel I need it, I eat something. If you are trying to lose weight, sometimes you can convince you're hunger is psychological, so you have to learn the difference between genuine hunger and the sort of eating that makes you need to diet in the first place.


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## Linford (7 Feb 2012)

jefmcg said:


> I'm just going to back up others here. When I was leading a teenage lifestyle (running about a lot, not dieting) I discovered if I skipped a couple of meals, even though I felt fine and wasn't hungry, I'd faint. And that was standing on a tram, not cycling across the city. Later I noticed that if I hadn't eaten for a while, I'd also get pretty grumpy, when other people were ok. So, I just came to terms with being more sensitive to lower blood sugar than other people, and made sure I ate when I needed to.
> 
> That being said, now I can cycle 16 miles on a cup of white coffee: but I trust my hunger, and when I feel I need it, I eat something. If you are trying to lose weight, sometimes you can convince you're hunger is psychological, so you have to learn the difference between genuine hunger and the sort of eating that makes you need to diet in the first place.


 
My low blood sugar has a big effect on my moods. If I've not eaten by 7pm after work, I can be a bit of a nightmare with a very short fuse but otherwise still function. 20 minutes after food, and I'm back onto an even keel.


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## Fubar (8 Feb 2012)

I had something similar on a couple of training rides, didn't blackout but my energy levels bottomed-out and I had to stop and sit down for half-an-hour. Managed to crawl home. Both happened on hot days and I put it down to (a) lack of proper food and (b) lack of proper hydration. I had also been on a low-carb diet and upped my exercise. Not saying that's what happened to you but I doubt the cold was the main cause. I think we tend to under-estimate the link between what we are putting in and what we are burning off, especially when overweight (like myself...)


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## NormanD (8 Feb 2012)

Happened to me once in the hospital while taking a patient in an elevator from a ward to Xray, I was a hospital porter at the time, as soon the elevator began to move I flopped to the floor out cold, turns out it was an inner ear infection that screwed up my Equilibrioception.


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## amaferanga (8 Feb 2012)

If I was trying to lose weigh as drastically you seem to be then wouldn't be snacking on fruit pastels 

Seriously, this could be a genuine medical condition, but my money would be on the cause being down to the starvation diet. If so then your stupidity will have wasted the time of a lot of medical professionals, not to mention the cost to the NHS.


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## swampyseifer (8 Feb 2012)

Just to say that my father drives as part of his job (he doesnt have passengers) and he is diabetic. He has been told that so long as he only needs the tablets, and not injections, then its fine for him to drive. but if the diabetes gets bad enough where he needs regualr insulin injections then they will not insure him to drive but he can, if he insures himself.

Also, it certainly does sound glucose-based. The other week I went to the gym at like 11am on a sunday, hadnt eaten or drank for 15 hours or so. I pushed myself hard and bottomed out sugar-wise...felt-faint, had to sit for 30mins and even then I was unstable and shaky for another good 90mins after that.


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## Gooner Mad Dog (8 Feb 2012)

IanRauk right on I would have been light headed even not having cycled, this time of year you need at least tea, 2 x toast & ideally a banana or ceral bar etc before setting off, imagine if you pass out at roundabout or something??

Even if you are not a breakfast person you must have something, also when you get to destination take on fluids and again as a minimum a piece of fruit/snack bar/digestive biscuits etc


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## dave r (10 Feb 2012)

NormanD said:


> Happened to me once in the hospital while taking a patient in an elevator from a ward to Xray, I was a hospital porter at the time, as soon the elevator began to move I flopped to the floor out cold, turns out it was an inner ear infection that screwed up my Equilibrioception.


 
I've had that, many years ago on a club ride, I felt unwell and left the group to return home, riding through Coleshill I went down like a sack of spuds, world spinning vomiting everywhere, couldn't stand' fortunetly a passing jogger called an ambulance and I got treated a George Elliot Hospital.




amaferanga said:


> If I was trying to lose weigh as drastically you seem to be then wouldn't be snacking on fruit pastels
> 
> Seriously, this could be a genuine medical condition, but my money would be on the cause being down to the starvation diet. If so then your stupidity will have wasted the time of a lot of medical professionals, not to mention the cost to the NHS.


 
+1 on that, it sounds like inadequate fuelling more than anything anything else. If it was summer and hot I would suspect poor Hydration as well, but from what you have said it sounds like you didn't eat enough to do what you were doing.


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## LarryDuff (10 Feb 2012)

Never skip lunch or breakfast.


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## fossyant (10 Feb 2012)

This sounds like diet. I know when I have not eaten enough when commuting home - and my acupuncturist still thinks I'm not eating enough for my exercise level. I do eat lots though, but the OP post...no way - I'd have the shakes by lunch on that. You got the 'bonk' but bad. You hit the "system" with sugar in the afternoon then extra insulin was produced that levels stuff off, but the tank was empty  . Simple sugars don't work well with exercise really - instant high, instant massive low as insulin kicks in.

Sort your diet, before you panic about being diabetic.


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## guitarpete247 (13 Feb 2012)

Our diet consultant, yesterday, told GF and I that too much exercise on a low calorie diet does not have the desired weight loss you would expect. She told us the body tries to hold onto the fat but burns off muscle. I cannot wait till next week when we move up to 1000 calories. By then we hope to have lost 2.5 stone each. 
If you drop the calorie intake then take the exercise steady and don't push it or the results will be light headedness and fainting. Plus If you push your heart rate over 2x resting rate damage to heart muscles (from what I've read up).


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## MattHB (13 Feb 2012)

Gotta fuel the body if you're going to expect it to work. I'm struggling to eat enough at the moment!


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## Dan_h (13 Feb 2012)

Fubar said:


> I had something similar on a couple of training rides, didn't blackout but my energy levels bottomed-out and I had to stop and sit down for half-an-hour. Managed to crawl home. Both happened on hot days and I put it down to (a) lack of proper food and (b) lack of proper hydration. I had also been on a low-carb diet and upped my exercise. Not saying that's what happened to you but I doubt the cold was the main cause. I think we tend to under-estimate the link between what we are putting in and what we are burning off, especially when overweight (like myself...)


 
That sounds like a classic "Bonk"! Low carb diets do not really go too well with endurance sports. The hot day certainly does not help with that and consuming water AND electrolyte is important. Same with the OP, going to the docs is a good idea, but from the evidence in the initial post it sounds like a case of running out of fuel.

The cold may have a bearing, there is a theory that your body burns a few more calories in the cold in order to stay warm. If this is the case then that could bring on the bonk a bit sooner. There seems to be some debate about how much effect this actually has though.


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## astrocan (19 Mar 2012)

amaferanga said:


> If I was trying to lose weigh as drastically you seem to be then wouldn't be snacking on fruit pastels
> 
> Seriously, this could be a genuine medical condition, but my money would be on the cause being down to the starvation diet. If so then your stupidity will have wasted the time of a lot of medical professionals, not to mention the cost to the NHS.


 
I have to confess that I am a very lucky boy to be a cotributor to the NHS whose services are available to anyone who needs it and not just the chronically self-righteous and terminally indignant.


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## The Jogger (20 Mar 2012)

astrocan said:


> I have to confess that I am a very lucky boy to be a cotributor to the NHS whose services are available to anyone who needs it and not just the chronically self-righteous and terminally indignant.


 
astrocan, how are you doing, did you get to the bottom of it yet and just ignore that silly statement you quoted, not worth the hand movements on the keyboard.


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## lulubel (20 Mar 2012)

astrocan said:


> I have to confess that I am a very lucky boy to be a cotributor to the NHS whose services are available to anyone who needs it and not just the chronically self-righteous and terminally indignant.


 
Have the doctors come up with any definite answer to what happened yet?

I had an incident years ago when I passed out from the cold. I was doing the first part of my motorbike CBT training, just riding the bike round a deserted car park on a Sunday morning. It was -2C, and I wasn't anywhere close to being dressed for the conditions. Throughout the session, I was gradually getting colder and colder until I couldn't feel my hands or feet, but I hung on because I was really keen to get my certificate and I was hoping to do it in 2 Sunday morning sessions.

Towards the end of the session, I started feeling a bit dizzy, so I put the bike on its stand and sat down on a wall. I explained to my trainer what had happened, and he and the other blokes there agreed it was probably the cold. We decided to end the session there, and I sat for a while until I felt better, and got up to head to my car. Next thing I knew, someone was sitting me up and putting my head between my knees.

They got me to my car, the heater warmed me up after a while, and I got home safely. Apart from sore fingers for the rest of the day, there were no other ill effects.

One of the blokes there was from the Driving Standards Agency. He happened to be there that day monitoring the training being provided, and he contacted the DVLA, which resulted in me being told to go for a checkup with one of their doctors. (He was a very nice doctor, with a private practice in a big house in Sonning on Thames, and my experience of that checkup is why I now see a private doctor whenever I can.)

The doctor said I had been flagged as possibly epileptic because I "convulsed" when I passed out. (I suspect I flailed around with my arms to try and catch hold of something as I fell.) Anyway, there was nothing else to suggest epilepsy, so we had a nice chat, and he told me it wasn't uncommon for people to convulse when they lose consciousness suddenly. He told me about a study on fighter pilots that found the vast majority convulse when they pass out under high g. And that was the end of it.

I don't know if this helps at all, but I thought I'd share it in case it's useful.


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## astrocan (21 Mar 2012)

Had electrodes stuck to my head. Been through a MRI scanner which was like seeing to a really rubbish Hawkwind tribute act. Had an armful removed and tested. Just about to go and have a cardio monitor fitted for 24hrs then back to see if they can tell me why.
I am hoping for nothing significant and will also try to answer the question in my OP regarding cold conditions lowering an individuals seizure threshold.

Reading Lulubel s experience seems to indicate that it might and the symptoms described there do corelate closely to mine which is encouraging.

Thanks for your kind comments and concern. It helps a lot.


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