# Cameras for cycle lanes/boxes



## Yorkshireman (24 Jul 2007)

Any thoughts on this :-
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article2128011.ece


----------



## mcr (24 Jul 2007)

Excellent! The more cameras catching law-breaking motorists the merrier (and if they could provide usuable photo evidence for prosecuting cycle RLJers, even better).


----------



## ChrisKH (24 Jul 2007)

> Sounds ok to me.
> 
> There are a couple of interesting responses.



Oh Colin, Colin, Colin.  Where do we start with your response? 

Nah can't be bothered.


----------



## Rhythm Thief (24 Jul 2007)

Hmmm. I don't think much of the idea myself. I don't think it'll do anything to make our presence on the road more respected (and some of the comments bear me out on that) and it may well lead to increased calls from motorists to confine us to cycle lanes at all times, whether we want to be there or not. Plus, I occasionally end up with my tractor unit in an ASL at traffic lights, simply because it sometimes takes a while to stop - cameras are famous for their lack of discretion and I'll be very displeased if I start getting fined every time that happens. Finally, there's no harm in putting one's nearside wheels into the cycle lane (as long as it's clear) to pass, say, right - turning traffic.


----------



## Pete (24 Jul 2007)

I was going to say more or less the same as Rhythm Thief - seems a great idea but what about the possible backlash? We already have bus lane cameras and many city cyclists agree that bus lanes make the best cycle routes, perhaps we should stick with that.

As for your tractor unit transgressing the ASL, RT, well that's perfectly legal if the lights changed only _as you were approaching the junction_. I concede that many HGVs do need the extra room, and like most sensible cyclists I'll avoid messing it with a HGV waiting at a junction! It's the car drivers who just don't look at the road in front of them that bother me...


----------



## zimzum42 (24 Jul 2007)

Isn't there already enough snooping and focus on minor transgressions?

This will just get up people's noses even more and won't generate any great respect for us.

How about the simple emthod of making sure there are more traffic police out on the road, more police out on the street in general?

More cameras just means the police are mor elikely to think doing people for being in the ASL isn't their job, whether there is a camera there or not.......


----------



## Rhythm Thief (24 Jul 2007)

Pete said:


> *As for your tractor unit transgressing the ASL, RT, well that's perfectly legal if the lights changed only as you were approaching the junction.* I concede that many HGVs do need the extra room, and like most sensible cyclists I'll avoid messing it with a HGV waiting at a junction! It's the car drivers who just don't look at the road in front of them that bother me...



Absolutely. That's the only time I ever find myself in the ASL.


----------



## monnet (24 Jul 2007)

I can't help thinking it'll be used as yet another reason for us to 'use the cycle lane' regardless of its width and broken glass content.


----------



## monnet (24 Jul 2007)

I don't know why I bother. I think it's 'Daily Mail Letters Page Syndrome.' I say to myself 'don't read the comments, it's bad for your soul' but then I read them, thinking 'this time they'll amuse me', but just like with the Hate Mail, I get increasingly annoyed by each response. One day I'll learn and my blood pressure will be so much lower.


----------



## Yorkshireman (24 Jul 2007)

> I was more interested in what Pete from St Albans had to say.
> 
> I didn't realise that having a child outside of marriage was illegal or dangerous. Or being a young mother for that matter.



Exactly  The cameras aren't even there yet and the nasties are creeping out. I'm all in favour of keeping within the law(s) etc. and also in favour of the police 'nailing' those who don't - providing that they are impartial in doing so. I don't expect (or ask for) preferential treatment as a cyclist on the road, but it would be pleasant if some road users could have a bit more give and take now and again


----------



## Pete (24 Jul 2007)

> I was more interested in what Pete from St Albans had to say.
> 
> I didn't realise that having a child outside of marriage was illegal or dangerous. Or being a young mother for that matter.


Or being black. 

(no I don't live in St A)


----------



## marinyork (24 Jul 2007)

I'm not sure it's a good idea at all. The odd cycle lane I use there's quite often a vehicle parked on it, usually on double yellows as well. I think that although people should in general show much better lane discipline, it's a minor irritating transgression. Whereas parking on them usually creates bottlenecks, obscures views etc.

Good idea to police ASLs. Then again, non-legitimately crawling into a a box is affectively RLJing. Spying on people RLJing would be even more useful.


----------



## zimzum42 (24 Jul 2007)

What about the cycle lanes that you can park in during certain hours, would not be happy if an over-zealous pedaller decided to take some form of direct action before they knew the parking regulations......


----------



## Rhythm Thief (24 Jul 2007)

To be honest, if I have a high street delivery to do and there are cycle lanes on each side of the road, I park in the cycle lane. And will continue to do so, I'm afraid. If a camera's going to pick me up and fine me £120 every time I do so, a lot of people are going to have to start doing without a lot of things.


----------



## marinyork (24 Jul 2007)

Cycle lanes on high streets? I think there probably lies the problem. If people are loading and stuff all the time the lane probably shouldn't be there.


----------



## col (24 Jul 2007)

Agreed,i used to get annoyed at vans and wagons parking in cycle lanes /bus lanes,but i had a eureka moment and realised they needed to deliver their goods,so it doesnt bother me at all now,they/you have a job to do after all.


----------



## Yorkshireman (24 Jul 2007)

Rhythm Thief said:


> To be honest, if I have a high street delivery to do and there are cycle lanes on each side of the road, I park in the cycle lane. And will continue to do so, I'm afraid. If a camera's going to pick me up and fine me £120 every time I do so, a lot of people are going to have to start doing without a lot of things.



I've wondered about some of those solid lined cycle lanes and delivery/taxi drivers having to stop to pick up and drop off/deliver etc. The ones we have around here don't have any signs showing times of operation, so I assume that they are 24/7. According to the Highway Code :-
215: You MUST NOT stop or park on 

the carriageway or the hard shoulder of a motorway except in an emergency (see Rule 244) 
a pedestrian crossing, including the area marked by the zig-zag lines (see Rule 167) 
a Clearway (see Traffic signs section) 
a Bus Stop Clearway within its hours of operation 
taxi bays as indicated by upright signs and markings 
-an Urban Clearway within its hours of operation, except to pick up or set down passengers (see Traffic signs section) 
a road marked with double white lines, except to pick up or set down passengers 
a bus, tram or cycle lane during its period of operation 
a cycle track 
red lines, in the case of specially designated 'red routes', unless otherwise indicated by signs.
Laws MT(E&W)R regs 7 & 9, MT(S)R regs 6 & 8, ZPPPCRGD regs 18 & 20, RTRA sects 5 & 8, TSRGD regs 10, 26, 27 & 29(1), RTA 1988 sects 36 & 21(1) 


So does that mean that anyone wishing to make deliveries etc should park in the carriageway (outside the cycle lane)?


----------



## Cab (24 Jul 2007)

Oh, this is a good one. Taken from one of the comments in the Times article:



> Several of our local important roads including the A127 London - Southend road have cycle paths which we have paid for; why is it that cyclists use the roads and ignore the special tracks which are well clear of the car areas an, one would think, safer?
> 
> What do the police do when cyclists ride down the centre of the road and minimum speed deliberately holding up traffic? Nothing



What they do, David Brown of Brentwood, Essex, is they try to prosecute you for _legally_ using the road ar a reasonable speed. No one rides down the middle of the road just to hold up traffic, thats in your head. 

And then, after they police have tried to prosecute you, the appeals court throws the case out because the police officers who took that to the CPS were being idiots, and cyclists have a _right_ to ignore stupid cycle lanes and be on the road.

Don't believe me? Google the Daniel Cadden case.


----------



## Cab (24 Jul 2007)

col said:


> Agreed,i used to get annoyed at vans and wagons parking in cycle lanes /bus lanes,but i had a eureka moment and realised they needed to deliver their goods,so it doesnt bother me at all now,they/you have a job to do after all.



Generally speaking I can deal with the delivery vans. I rekon most of the taxi drivers should know better though.


----------



## col (25 Jul 2007)

That wont apply in my town,the bus lanes are for taxis too,and what cycle lanes we do have,that seem to end nowhere and use half a normal lane which have just been painted on to give a car about half a lane of width in some places,dont really come into it for us.


----------



## monnet (25 Jul 2007)

col said:


> That wont apply in my town,the bus lanes are for taxis too,and what cycle lanes we do have,that seem to end nowhere and use half a normal lane which have just been painted on to give a car about half a lane of width in some places,dont really come into it for us.



Yes, I'm a big fan of the cyle lane that becomes a parking area that becomes a cycle lane half the size of the orginal and then disappears (usually where it might actually be useful) and then re emerges at safe distance from any danger.


----------



## Pete (25 Jul 2007)

Regarding bus lanes and what I've observed about them in my rather limited exposure to London's streets: just to clarify what I said before:

I wouldn't call them a haven for nervous or inexperienced cyclists. Indeed they can be as nerve-jangling and unsafe as any other part of the highway. Only Dutch-style cycle paths can keep you more or less completely safe. And as a by-product, keep you from ever learning how to deal with traffic...

What they do offer, _for the experienced cyclist_, is a means of making _fast_ progress through otherwise snarled-up streets. You have plenty of width, a clear road ahead, and you can get up to normal cycling speed, which I find well-nigh impossible in ordinary near-stationary traffic. Of course there are hazards: the bus or taxi coming up fast behind, the stopped bus which you will often want to overtake, pushing yourself into the traffic, the sudden ending of the bus lane at traffic lights...

Some of this can also be said, of course, of the painted-on cycle lane at the side of the carriageway, although you don't have the width and usually can't maintain the same sort of speed. Of course you will inevitably come up against the parked car or other obstruction and will need to overtake. You _need to learn how to do this safely_, even though it means exposing yourself briefly to the main stream of traffic. There are no easy answers. All cyclists start out as novice cyclists: I would wish them - even children - to develop into 'experienced' cyclists as quickly as possible. I have seen plenty of child (well - teenage anyway) cyclists who seem perfectly capable of coping in difficult traffic.


----------

