# Not Feeling the Benefit of Clipless



## getfit (26 Aug 2009)

Hi All,

Well I went clipless earlier this week and to date have done 3 rides avg. 20 miles each.

The route is quite hilly and so far I haven't noticed any improvement in the uphill phase. I have the pedal adjusted to the mid position, I do intend to increase this over time but notice quite a lot of float, not a problem as it makes the transition to clipless feel normal.

I chose SPD-SL pedals and have an Adidas shoe. Although the shoe is comfortable with regards to fit I am getting a dull ache in the arch area after an hours riding. Is this normal or should I consider a more supportive insole?

To date I have managed to avoid a clipless 'moment' but do find myself saying 'cleat, cleat' repeatedly as I approach junctions etc.

Have I been expecting too much with the move to clipless?

GF


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## colinr (26 Aug 2009)

I found clipless a lot better than clips, and clips a lot better than flats. Wouldn't go back now, I'm sure I'm faster but don't know if that's me getting fitter or the pedal setup. Definitely notice it uphill, if nothing else my calves get a rude awakening.

I get that dull ache too. A combination of cleat positioning, loosening the tension and wearing thicker socks seemed to help but it's still there a bit.


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## 2Loose (27 Aug 2009)

There is quite a learning curve before pulling the pedals upwards or backwards with your feet becomes natural, rather than just pushing downwards - but once you have it, the pedal can be used to transfer power throughout a much greater range than a normal pedal, making your ride far more efficient as it uses more of your leg muscles, less of the time. 

As for your foot arch, can the cleats be moved any further forward on your shoes? Just a little tiny bit... I have plain SPD, rather than SPD-L, but this solved a similiar problem with me.


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## nigelnorris (27 Aug 2009)

I went clipless a couple of weeks ago and for the first few days was 'like, so what'. I thought I should be able to get some kind of 360 degree pedaling action going or something, which turned out to be ridiculous, too much too soon. But then one session I did notice that I could pull the pedal on the backstroke, so I abandoned pushing downwards and just did that for a few miles, and I've started doing a few miles of that every session now. Once those muscles got used to being used I found that I could combine using the downstroke and backstroke which does seems to offer more power. Next will be trying to use the upstroke.

To cut a long story short, I think expecting everything to happen at once is destined for failure. Little incremental steps are the way forward.


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## gaz (27 Aug 2009)

to really notice it you have to have your saddle at the right height. your leg should be near straight on the down stroke. If it isn't you need to adjust your saddle height.


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## getfit (27 Aug 2009)

Cheers guys,

I will try nigels idea of introducing the up stroke over a few sessions.

Gaz the seat post is at it's heighest point but still not allowing me to get near full extension. 

2Loose, you mention moving the cleats forward, I'll give this a go and report back.

GF


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

the cynic in me would also point out that it's quite possible to lead a long, and enjoyable, cycling life without clips or clipless. If you're trying to compete, or make a living, then clipless are necessary, beyond that I'm yet to be convinced.

What is true is that there's a whole industry that has risen around pedals, cleats and shoes. Also true is that people don't like to hear that they're not now, and never will be, good enough to warrant a professional pedal approach.

Arguements that they make cycling so much easier, and therefore more enjoyable, seem strange to me.


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## fossyant (27 Aug 2009)

Macb..join the 20th century and then the 21st


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## Crackle (27 Aug 2009)

MacB said:


> the cynic in me would also point out that it's quite possible to lead a long, and enjoyable, cycling life without clips or clipless. If you're trying to compete, or make a living, then clipless are necessary, beyond that I'm yet to be convinced.
> 
> What is true is that there's a whole industry that has risen around pedals, cleats and shoes. Also true is that people don't like to hear that they're not now, and never will be, good enough to warrant a professional pedal approach.
> 
> Arguements that they make cycling so much easier, and therefore more enjoyable, seem strange to me.



On that point I don't find clipless any great advantage 'for me' over clipped pedals. On my mtn bike I've just bought a combination clipped/platform pedal because there are times I don't want to be clipped in or don't want to take an extra pair of shoes away. Moving to clipless seems to have given me more issues than before and I still haven't abandoned the idea of ditching them and going back to clips.

A good stiff soled pair of cycling shoes on the other hand, is a very good thing to buy.


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## gavintc (27 Aug 2009)

getfit said:


> Cheers guys,
> 
> 
> Gaz the seat post is at it's heighest point but still not allowing me to get near full extension.
> ...



Buy a new seat post. This will be your most successful upgrade you could make. If your legs are not working properly, no amount of clipless pedals, cycling 360 degree is going to help.


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## Perfect Virgo (27 Aug 2009)

Hi GF, don't forget cleat position can be adjusted laterally a little too and more importantly there is angle to consider. If you naturally walk with your feet turned slightly outwards or inwards then try to match that with your cleat position on the shoe. I have about 6 months experience with clipless and made small adjustments for several weeks before being satisfied with a comfortable position. Good luck.


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## getfit (27 Aug 2009)

gavintc said:


> Buy a new seat post. This will be your most successful upgrade you could make. If your legs are not working properly, no amount of clipless pedals, cycling 360 degree is going to help.



I'm proberly not going to go down this route although it makes perfect sense I am currently riding a hybrid and looking to upgrade to a road bike early next year so not really wanting to spend money on this bike.

Macb,

I've a few problems with slipping of the pedal in the wet....I live in NI so wet riding is an almost everyday event!

GF


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

fossyant said:


> Macb..join the 20th century and then the 21st



merely offering an alternative viewpoint - if you'd care to point out anything factually incorrect in my post I'd be interested


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## Randochap (27 Aug 2009)

Make sure the bike is set up properly.

If your seat post is at it's limit, the bike is too small.

Usually, a cleat _backward_ position will improve performance and ease stress on Achilles, assuming everything else is set up properly.

I've rarely ridden without some kind of attachment to pedals in 40 years, so can't understand the argument against. Tried without for short (2.5 km) commute last year, but found it scary. Kept pulling foot off pedal and slipping off in wet weather.


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## Hilldodger (27 Aug 2009)

I don't, never have and never will use clipless pedals. 

As far as I'm concerned they rank alongside oval chainwheels, 29" front wheels and puncture proof tyres.


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## tyred (27 Aug 2009)

I always think this is an interesting article.

http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse


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## Hilldodger (27 Aug 2009)

Couldn't agree more with that article

But lots of people are going to be VERY upset


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## Arch (27 Aug 2009)

Hilldodger said:


> I don't, never have and never will use clipless pedals.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned they rank alongside oval chainwheels, 29" front wheels and puncture proof tyres.



Yes but Rog, you've barely adopted the safety bicycle...

I'm also in the camp that doesn't feel the need to go clipless - except on my recumbent trike, where it's more a case of keeping the feet on the pedals at all. If people want to, and it helps them, fine. But it's long way down my personal list of necessaries....


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## threebikesmcginty (27 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> I always think this is an interesting article.
> 
> http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse




Excellent  - I do wear clipless on my race bikes but on the flat bar hack I use the flat side of A530's with normal shoes and no clips, it's easier when I'm out with the kids.

I like the last sentence in summing up.....

'But at some point the madness has to stop, and if you're looking for an excuse to head out on a ride in your Hush Puppies, now you have it.'


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## trustysteed (27 Aug 2009)

if i try to pedal on the upstroke, i'm sure i'd just give my legs cramp! i look at the upstroke as a brief rest for my legs.


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## Hilldodger (27 Aug 2009)

Arch said:


> Yes but Rog, you've barely adopted the safety bicycle...



And it'll be a cold day in hell before I fully accept it


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## wafflycat (27 Aug 2009)

I'm one of those poor deluded fools who changed to clipless and loves it. From day 1 of changing to clipless (Looks) my cycling changed for the better. Up to my mid-forties, when cycling I used either traditional platform pedals or platforms with toeclips. I could never quite get the hang of being in toeclips when they were *tight* on to the foot, and on anything over ten miles using platform pedals I'd have painful knees and shins. As soon as I switched to clipless, the knee & shin pain went away. It was a joy. It still is. I find going up hills much easier on my legs due to pulling on the upstroke as opposed to pushing down on the pedals all the time. Use traditional platform pedals again? Not out of choice.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

hmmm, another view from 'Dr Romanov'

http://www.posetech.com/training/archives/000602.html


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## gaz (27 Aug 2009)

that guy doesn't half talk some crap?

He is trying to say at one point that stiff shoes are just as good as things like crocs. well thats total ball crap.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

gaz said:


> that guy doesn't half talk some crap?
> 
> He is trying to say at one point that stiff shoes are just as good as things like crocs. well thats total ball crap.



I don't know I haven't tried enough types of footwear and pedals to be able to say.......have you?


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

I still don't understand why clipless pedals are even called that given that they clip you to the bike. Still they are stupid things and will have no place on any of my bikes. Flats and Vans FTW everytime.


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2009)

You have to train the muscle memory and the muscles to get anything out of clip-ins -which can take a long time.

Watch the pro's on tour - none of them straighten their legs fully at the lowest point.

You have four main stages - pulling back,pulling up.pushing forward and then pushing down -practice each of these individually and then round up the session by combining all 4 in one smooth movement. Practice this on the small chainring and in a month or two you will start getting the hang of things.

It is most definitely worth the effort.


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## Origamist (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> *I still don't understand why clipless pedals are even called that given that they clip you to the bike.* Still they are stupid things and will have no place on any of my bikes. Flats and Vans FTW everytime.



It was to differentiate them from pedals that had toe-*clips* and straps...


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

accountantpete said:


> You have to train the muscle memory
> 
> 
> > unless I'm wildly mistaken muscles contain no memory and no ability to store data


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## ttcycle (27 Aug 2009)

I read in a triathlon training book and I think if I remember correctly to get the most from clipless and the smooth full pedal rotation is described like this:

with the feet angled down, push down from 12 o clock, pull backwards as if you're trying to drive your ankle towards the back of the bike and around 6 o clock (I think) you pull up but the motion is like trying to push your knee towards the handlebars/drops. If there's bouncing on the saddle there's gearing/seatpost adjustments.

It's all about efficiency in the pedal but I have to admit if I am having a lazy commute I don't use the full rotation in a pedal movement.

Clipless aids the process and allows it to happen more fluidly but it's not without your legs acclimatising over time and doing the work so they're not suddenly going to round out your pedalling style that takes practice.


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2009)

MacB;868787][quote=accountantpete said:


> You have to train the muscle memory
> 
> 
> > unless I'm wildly mistaken muscles contain no memory and no ability to store data
> ...


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

Origamist said:


> It was to differentiate them from pedals that had toe-*clips* and straps...



Then wouldn't strapless been a better/more accurate name as they still have 'clips'?


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## ttcycle (27 Aug 2009)

> unless I'm wildly mistaken muscles contain no memory and no ability to store data



they do - there's a difference between slow twitch and fast twitch and types of muscle fibres. If there was no memory or ability for the body to cahnge over time - why do you think training plans are worked out the way they are? it's to allow the body to force the muscle beyond it's current capabilities and tear it at times and the rest a cyclist then has allows for the body to repair and improve and modify.


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## gavintc (27 Aug 2009)

There are some people who clearly do not want to move outside their little comfort blanket bubble. 

If you move from a clipless bike to a flat pedal bike; then you notice the difference. Moving to clipless takes time to get your legs used to the sensation, then your muscles and then your style. Take the benefit away and wow, it suddenly gets harder again. But, each to their own, but there does seem to be an awful lot of dyed in the wool attitudes in here.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

accountantpete;868802][quote=MacB;868787][quote=accountantpete said:


> You have to train the muscle memory
> 
> 
> I was not saying that they do Mac - this explains it
> ...



I know but, as proved by ttcyles post, the term muscle memory confuses many. Accepted I'm being pedantic but the memory is held in the brain and the training merely acclimatises/develops muscles for certain activities.[/quote]


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

I rode clipless for about 2 years while I was commuting approx 40 miles a day before changing to flats. The only real difference I noticed was that I was no longer forced to wear ugly shoes that were crap for walking in everytime I wanted to ride my bike.


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## ttcycle (27 Aug 2009)

MacB are we talking semantics and language here?

Not necessarily - memory in itself if you were referring purely to cogntive function of a human being in its narrow defines then yes you are correct but muscle memory is defined in terms of the adaptability of the human body and any training a person has done previous is advantageous to them being able to do that same activity again- ie in that the body/muscles 'remembers' that process. It is muscular not cognitive memory I refer to here. 

in regards to the original post - it's about technique and practising that - not something that will magically happen with clipless pedals just bolted on. give it time


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

gavintc said:


> There are some people who clearly do not want to move outside their little comfort blanket bubble.
> 
> If you move from a clipless bike to a flat pedal bike; then you notice the difference. Moving to clipless takes time to get your legs used to the sensation, then your muscles and then your style. Take the benefit away and wow, it suddenly gets harder again. But, each to their own, but there does seem to be an awful lot of dyed in the wool attitudes in here.



Gavin, I totally accept the benefits for serious competition, for other types of riding I'm yet to be convinced. Seeking the right solution is not as clear cut as you 'modernists' believe. Yes you'll find reams of advice online saying clipless in vastly superior. But it's worth looking at where that comes from:-

serious competitive cyclists - well it would be important for them
converts to clipless - after spending all that dosh I can see some placebo effect happening
people in the trade - pedals, shoes and cleats, big margins and the more the takeup the better the returns


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## threebikesmcginty (27 Aug 2009)

I doesn't have to be all about cost MacB - you can kit out for less than £50 (less than the cost of a decent marino!!)

Admittedly you can spend as much as you want if that's your thing.

For me it just depends on the type of riding as to whether it's flats or SPDs.


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## tyred (27 Aug 2009)

gavintc said:


> If you move from a clipless bike to a flat pedal bike; then you notice the difference. Moving to clipless takes time to get your legs used to the sensation, then your muscles and then your style. Take the benefit away and wow, it suddenly gets harder again. But, each to their own, but there does seem to be an awful lot of dyed in the wool attitudes in here.



You need to get used to clipless. If you have been used to clipless, you probably do need to get used to flats again. It's just different techniques.

If you could take a snapshot of every single person riding a bike in the world at this moment in time, I would like to bet the number on falt pedals outnumber those on clipless. Flat pedals are perfectly suitable for anyone who isn't racing, it cost less and leaves the option of wearing whatever footwear you want.


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## ttcycle (27 Aug 2009)

Ah MacB

you could easily argue the same about Carbon Fibre bikes - 

I don't profess that clipless are a panacea. They're just an enabler which allows you to have better pedalling technique and use energy more efficiently.

Ultimately you can get a CF bike with a clipless system but if you're not fit and healthy, have good endurance and or have poor technique it's pointless as you won't get the most out of your machine no matter how good the componentry.

I agree that clipless is vital to competing though.


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2009)

The main thing is Mac,that I can spin along quite happily on the flat at a decent lick whilst saving my muscles for either accelerating or getting up a hill. Or I can spin up a hill without losing momentum. The variety of pedalling styles that clip-ins allow is indispensible to my rides- but each to his/her own.


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## adscrim (27 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> Flat pedals are perfectly suitable for anyone who isn't racing, it cost less and leaves the option of wearing whatever footwear you want.



Flat pedals are perfectly suitable for anyone on a bike. Wear cycling shoes with them and you'll be more efficient and faster. Use a full clipless system and you'll increase the gains further still. Like everything else, it's a matter of choice.


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## threebikesmcginty (27 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> If you could take a snapshot of every single person riding a bike in the world at this moment in time, I would like to bet the number on falt pedals outnumber those on clipless.




You're taking in China and India there - be a while before they're cycling in anything more fancy on the feet than sandals at best!


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## tyred (27 Aug 2009)

threebikesmcginty said:


> You're taking in China and India there - be a while before they're cycling in anything more fancy on the feet than sandals at best!



Exactly. And they probably cover more miles than most European cyclists and get along perfectly happily. The, when their country get richer, the marketing men will come along and sell them things they probably don't even need in the first place.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

TT & AccPete - agreed each to their own, and I know I was being picky on the muscle memory bit. I just feel that the clipless debate isn't always represented fully


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

accountantpete said:


> The main thing is Mac,that I can spin along quite happily on the flat at a decent lick whilst saving my muscles for either accelerating or getting up a hill. Or I can spin up a hill without losing momentum. The variety of pedalling styles that clip-ins allow is indispensible to my rides- but each to his/her own.



Sorry, I don't get this. Are you saying that this can't be done with flats or that flats somehow prevent you from pedalling in a particular manner?


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## ttcycle (27 Aug 2009)

It's alright 



> I know I was being picky on the muscle memory bit


- 

I'll let you off MacB!

Yeah - people can spend a lot of money on bikes and set up without making the most of it (Me personally, I'm the worst climber - clipless won't help me with that!) or taking things fully into account ie what they want the bike for, where they're at with their own fitness etc and some people don't want to think (hurts too much) and only want to hear things that reinforce their ideas.

Ultimately - getting on a bike is all good - we're all individuals and have different styles, needs etc - so clipless works for some and not for others - worth trialing for a bit to get to grips with it though...gritting teeth with determination...


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## Flying Dodo (27 Aug 2009)

It took me about 3 years to decide to switch to clipless pedals, and I wouldn't want to switch back.

Immediately, I noticed about a 10% increase in my average speed on my regular routes without any apparent increase in effort/fatigue. However, for pootling up to the shops, I'm quite happy to have flat pedals, as it would be a bit pointless to be clipless for such a short journey.


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## accountantpete (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> Sorry, I don't get this. Are you saying that this can't be done with flats or that flats somehow prevent you from pedalling in a particular manner?



Yes. By turning the crank with your feet exactly the same as how you would turn a handle with your hand spreads the load on your muscles. You can't do this with flats and less efficiently with clips.


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## wafflycat (27 Aug 2009)

MacB said:


> Gavin, I totally accept the benefits for serious competition, for other types of riding I'm yet to be convinced. Seeking the right solution is not as clear cut as you 'modernists' believe. Yes you'll find reams of advice online saying clipless in vastly superior. But it's worth looking at where that comes from:-
> 
> serious competitive cyclists - well it would be important for them
> converts to clipless - after spending all that dosh I can see some placebo effect happening
> people in the trade - pedals, shoes and cleats, big margins and the more the takeup the better the returns



I'm as far from a competitive cyclist as anyone could be. I do not go fast. I admire the scenery. Civilised cycling is a gentle pootle from Ye Olde Tea Shoppe to Ye Old Tea Shoppe. Yet I find a definite benefit to using clipless pedals.

Dosh... ah let's see... my pedals cost £10 the pair. One pair of Look road shoes (inc. cleats) were given to me as a freebie. The Look shoes that are my everyday cycling footwear cost me a fiver (inc. cleats). Ah yes, must justify that huge expense there then


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## Origamist (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> Then wouldn't strapless been a better/more accurate name as they still have 'clips'?



Yes - it's misnomer!


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## Randochap (27 Aug 2009)

tyred said:


> I always think this is an interesting article.
> 
> http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse



I own a Rivendell bike (or did, until it was destroyed along with my right ankle, last month) but, IMO, much of Grant's peripheral bicycling philosophy just -- how shall I put it? -- doesn't correspond with my experience.

Note the disclaimer that the article is not written for "racers" or people who ride like racers. I'm not a racer, and I often rant here against the use of "racing" bikes for recreational or commuting use, because they are, in my view, inappropriate technology. Yet I can see the obvious benefits of clipless systems for recreational riding.

Sure, I can recommend flat pedals for nipping to the store, but any further afield -- especially in hilly terrain -- and you're better off with proper shoes and clipless ... unless you prefer not to.

Calling to "stop the madness" of clips & straps or clipless is ... well, madness itself. Quite over the top.


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## Crackle (27 Aug 2009)

Randochap said:


> I own a Rivendell bike (or did, until it was destroyed along with my right ankle, last month)



Did you post about that, I don't remember seeing anything, sounds a bit grim.


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## getfit (27 Aug 2009)

Interesting to see the strong views held on both sides of the wall. It is obvious I expected to much too soon, however, I will keep with the clipless pedals/shoes and take on board the 360 degree motion and see if I can get an improvement.

I am no racer and never will be but I do hope to increase my average speed by a combination of fitness, technique and technology (a road bike).

GF


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## Virtual DBP (27 Aug 2009)

<<I often rant here against the use of "racing" bikes for recreational or commuting use, because they are, in my view, inappropriate technology.>>

i hear that argument every time i jump on my fireblade (honda's 1000cc superbike) and drive it to work. forgetting the fact that it is actually quicker, someone said to me it's like having a racehorse doing pleasure walks on a beach.

the response is what would you rather sit on at the weekend... a donkey or a racehorse!


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

Randochap said:


> Calling to "stop the madness" of clips & straps or clipless is ... well, madness itself. Quite over the top.



I don't think that that was anyone's intention. I believe that it was more a case of arguing that they're not essential and in some (in my view many) cases they're not the most practical solution overall. Most cycle journeys are relatively short (commutes, to the shops/pub etc), often involve a reasonable amount of walking at the destination, in urban areas will encounter frequent stops (assuming a lack of rljing) etc etc, and in these cases I'm not convinced that clipless pedals are the best solution. But I feel that there are a lot of voices out there that would still advocate their use for these journeys and lots of newer cyclists are only hearing these opinions and that is what I feel is the point that was trying to be highlighted.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> I don't think that that was anyone's intention. I believe that it was more a case of arguing that they're not essential and in some (in my view many) cases they're not the most practical solution overall. Most cycle journeys are relatively short (commutes, to the shops/pub etc), often involve a reasonable amount of walking at the destination, in urban areas will encounter frequent stops (assuming a lack of rljing) etc etc, and in these cases I'm not convinced that clipless pedals are the best solution. But I feel that there are a lot of voices out there that would still advocate their use for these journeys and lots of newer cyclists are only hearing these opinions and that is what I feel is the point that was trying to be highlighted.



and that is basically where I'm coming from.

I tried clipless, possibly not enough to satisfy the advocates, but enough to make me change back to flats. The experiment cost me £120 and I don't lightly spend that sort of money, so it was given a serious go. I did find hill climbing easier, but not earth shatteringly so. I fell off a bike, clipless moment, for the first time. I also knackered my right knee and was off riding for nearly 3 weeks. Accept that the injury will be due to cleat position. But most of all I hated the feeling of being clipped in, I also hated not being able to hop on my bike in any shoes.

As said already, if I was a different type of cyclist then I believe clipless would be a requirement. My priority, at present, is utility and so flats will do me fine. I do have some powergrips and quite fancy these but I go the standard size and they don't fit my clodhoppers. When I get round to it I'll try to trade them for the longer version.


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## Randochap (27 Aug 2009)

Virtual DBP said:


> the response is what would you rather sit on at the weekend... a donkey or a racehorse!



Thing is, I don't "sit on" anything; I am the engine that propels the machine, and there is little difference between a race bike and my commuters and "event" bikes as far as speed. 

Still, on my commuting bike, I'm not looking to break records; I'm trying to transport myself and impedimenta in a practical manner.

A racing bicycle (comparing to motor vehicle is irrelevant) does not give one a practical machine, lacking mudguard and rack clearances and braze-ons. To use your metaphor though, there might be an animal between racehorse and donkey that's right for the job. We don't need to go to extremes.

And I'll agree that, for very short distances, flat pedals might be more practical for most people.


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

Seeing as you've now used the phrase twice, can I ask what you consider short distances?


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## Randochap (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> I don't think that that was anyone's intention.



It appears from his hyperbole that that is Grant Peterson's intention -- which is what I am referring to -- and I've called him out on it on this side of the pond as well.


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

I meant the intention of posters on this forum rather than those from external articles.


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## MacB (27 Aug 2009)

Flying Dodo said:


> It took me about 3 years to decide to switch to clipless pedals, and I wouldn't want to switch back.
> 
> Immediately, I noticed about a 10% increase in my average speed on my regular routes without any apparent increase in effort/fatigue. However, for pootling up to the shops, I'm quite happy to have flat pedals, as it would be a bit pointless to be clipless for such a short journey.



Thanks Adam, an actual estimate, I've read many threads, articles and debates re clipless, clips and flats. It's very rare that I ever see an ctual number put on the difference. This thread is a good example, 7 pages and only one post trying to give any data.


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## Randochap (27 Aug 2009)

BigSteev said:


> Seeing as you've now used the phrase twice, can I ask what you consider short distances?



I dunno; say 10k on flat ground.


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## BigSteev (27 Aug 2009)

Randochap said:


> I dunno; say 10k on flat ground.



Sounds fair, about my daily commute (1 way).

Best wishes for a speedy recovery btw.


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## paddy01 (28 Aug 2009)

First up... all speed to your recovery Randochap.

As for the pedal debate, there is no right nor wrong answer.

If your cycling benefits from clipless (as mine without doubt does) then go clipless.

If the nature of your cycling means its more suited or your feel a preference for clips or flats, more power to you.

Why anyone thinks only one of those 2 scenarios can be correct is beyond me.


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## alp1950 (28 Aug 2009)

paddy01 said:


> First up... all speed to your recovery Randochap.
> 
> As for the pedal debate, there is no right nor wrong answer.
> 
> ...



+1.

All I can say is I made the change last year & within a week or so loved it. Would never want to go back & when I do pedal even short distances with flats it feels so wrong.


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## Cubist (28 Aug 2009)

Fingers crossed for your recovery rando

I rode my MTB with flats on it the other day. Hated every minute of it, couldn't get the same sort of power through the pedals. Another benefit of SPDs is that on occasions on certain trails/sections, I can get in an extra stroke to get over or past an obstacle by pulling up, where a rock or whatever would foul the pedal on a downstroke. 

Each to their own though.


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## Shaun (28 Aug 2009)

To keep this thread on-topic, you can wish Rando well here.

Cheers,
Shaun


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## Flying Dodo (28 Aug 2009)

MacB said:


> Thanks Adam, an actual estimate, I've read many threads, articles and debates re clipless, clips and flats. It's very rare that I ever see an ctual number put on the difference. This thread is a good example, 7 pages and only one post trying to give any data.





I agree there is a lot of "you must do this or else you're not a proper cyclist" attitude. Before I tried clipless, I reckoned scientifically there must a definite benefit, but delayed for the entirely natural fear of falling off. It took a few months to feel 100% confident that I'd be able to unclip under every circumstance including someone stopping rapidly in front of me. I even managed to unclip when I had an accident 2 years ago, and hit a crash barrier at 25 mph!

On steep hills going up, and when really going fast, I do try and remember to pull on the upstroke to increase efficiency and speed, but probably at least 80-90% of the time I'd admit I'm unweighted on the upstroke, and so technically aren't benefitting from being clipless. However, I'll stick with them on my road bike for the times when I need to have that (small) benefit.

If I was commuting in London, I'd not bother with clipless, as the constant unclipping required due to lights/crossings/WVM cutting me up/pedestrians walking out in front of me would get on my nerves!


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## trustysteed (28 Aug 2009)

OMG, the benefits of clipless pedals in 'individual to each cyclist' shocker!


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## 661-Pete (29 Aug 2009)

I'm happy that opinion on this forum appears to be evenly divided. If goes to show that here, at least, the matter can be sensibly debated. 

I won't sermonise people 'go thou clipless' or 'go thou non-clipless'. That's not my job. SPDs are right for some people, wrong for others.

What really hacked me off, was being patronised almost to the point of personal abuse, in 'another place', by certain individuals (who shall of course be nameless, but whom I thought I counted as friends ). All because I had the temerity to put the case _against_ SPD pedals and cleats on that forum. Being told that my cycling was 'dangerous' was not a useful contribution to the debate.

Ho hum. I shall continue to favour my flat pedals, toe clips and straps, until I end my days in a wooden box, or am otherwise incapacitated. End of story. I'm happy to listen to advice on other matters, but on this issue I require no advice. Good luck to everyone on this forum, whichever pedals they adopt!


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## beachcaster (29 Aug 2009)

Virtual DBP said:


> <<I often rant here against the use of "racing" bikes for recreational or commuting use, because they are, in my view, inappropriate technology.>>
> 
> i hear that argument every time i jump on my fireblade (honda's 1000cc superbike) and drive it to work. forgetting the fact that it is actually quicker, someone said to me it's like having a racehorse doing pleasure walks on a beach.
> 
> the response is what would you rather sit on at the weekend... a donkey or a racehorse!



Personally I'd go for the donkey
with flat bmx pedals of course.

To be serious for a minute I suffer from claustrophobia...I hate the though of being trapped ....dont like lifts or travelling on the tube etc. These things really dont occur on a day to day basis...but when I tried clipless...I just felt trapped I hated it .

I have a cyclocross type bike and have large flat bmx type pedals and love them. my LBS was a bit shocked when he saw the combination
but was quite relaxed about it when I explained why.
I cycle for the pure pleasure of it and now clock up over 100 miles on a good week.......flat pedals and all !!!!!

Free your feet GO FLAT 

barry


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## getfit (31 Aug 2009)

I was on a long ride yesterday and on the whole can't say I felt much difference with clip less however near the end of the ride when I was struggling I did notice a benefit when off the saddle and found it slightly easier uphill as I felt a real pull on the up stroke.

So far I have managed to avoid the 'moment' and while taking a slow corner the guy next to me fell so I slammed on the brakes coming to an almost instant stop. The foot came out before I had realised so hopefully the muscle memory is starting to kick in. Now I’ve jinxed myself I'll no-doubt have a 'moment' soon!

GF


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## ed_o_brain (31 Aug 2009)

It took me a good 18 months I'd say, to get the full benefit of clipless.

It's one of those things you don't really miss until you have had it for a while and you really miss it when it's gone.


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## Liddington (31 Aug 2009)

This thread has been very reassuring - I thought I was one of the last flat pedal luddites out there but there has been a surprising number of views in favour of them. I don't preach to anyone about it; whatever pedals you have, if you cycle and enjoy yourself then it's all good! Looking forward to picking up my new Pashley Guv'nor tomorrow with a decent pair of flats on. I can't wait.


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