# Horizon vs Galaxy???



## K... (27 Jan 2010)

Hi,

As I said in a previous post I'm planning a trip from the UK to Greece via Spain and Italy.

I am now considering which bike I should be choosing, without very strict limitations in budget, but again without wanting to spend any money just for style and appearances.

So for example I've been checking the Dawes Horizon vs the Galaxy or even the Super Galaxy.

The price difference for the first two is 400£ and I'm wandering what am I getting for this money. 

-The different frame seems to benefit the buyer with only 0.4 to 0.6Kg of less weight to carry.
-The bikes have different gear systems, but apart from the 27 compared to the 24 ratios, I can't inderstand any aother difference, since all of them are SHIMANO followed with lots of letters and numbers.
-The Horizon doesn't seem to come with a decent carrier, but again that is something I could easily replace.

Generally I don't get it.
Can somebody please persuade me in spending this extra 400£?

Here are the specs for these bikes by the way:

http://www.dawescycles.com/p-25-horizon.aspx
http://www.dawescycles.com/p-20-galaxy.aspx
http://www.dawescycles.com/p-27-super-galaxy.aspx

Thanks,
K.


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## PpPete (27 Jan 2010)

It's not just about the weight of the frame, stiffness has a big effect on efficiency too. Reynolds 520 is OK, 631 is better, 853 really is nice, but arguably too light for a touring bike, and what would be the point of shaving a few grams off the frame weight when you are carrying a touring load anyway?

Gears:
Horizon & Super Galaxy come with STI shifters....which are nice, but if they go wrong you are f....d until you can replace them. 

Galaxy has Bar End Shifters....which are not quite as conveniently placed, but they are simpler and far less to go wrong.

Get yourself to a Dawes dealer and ask to try them. Also look at Surly LHT (american equiv of Galaxy?) , Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op Country Traveller (similar spec to Horizon but Aluminium frame)


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## upsidedown (27 Jan 2010)

Hi K

The rear mechs on those bikes are:

Horizon - Alivio
Galaxy - Deore
Super Galaxy - Deore LX

Alivio is a "leisure" spec, for want of a better word. Not sure i'd want to be doing any serious miles on one.
Deore and Deore LX are ok, but if i was doing any serious miles i would look to XT.

If you can afford a Galaxy i would go for it, you will enjoy your trip more, and get decent money if you ever want to sell it.


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## Baggy (27 Jan 2010)

upsidedown said:


> Hi K
> 
> The rear mechs on those bikes are:
> 
> ...


My Horizon has racked up over 10,000 miles on its original Alivio mech with no problems! I've not had any problems with any of the components failing and wouldn't hesitate to take it on a long-haul tour.
I agree that sti levers might be fragile, but you could always swap to bar end shifters and it would still be £400 less.


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## upsidedown (27 Jan 2010)

Baggy said:


> My Horizon has racked up over 10,000 miles on its original Alivio mech with no problems! I've not had any problems with any of the components failing and wouldn't hesitate to take it on a long-haul tour.
> I agree that sti levers might be fragile, but you could always swap to bar end shifters and it would still be £400 less.



Ok, i speak from experience of Alivio on my first back to cycling bike, a Dawes Discovery 201. It was rubbish.
I've never cycled in Greece, but if i did i would take XT, worth every penny.


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## chris667 (27 Jan 2010)

It's fairly counterintuitive, but once you get above a certain price point equipment generally gets less robust!

Alivio is fine. Like all equipment, it needs to be set up well and looked after, but otherwise it should provide lots of service for cheap.

As to whether or not I'd buy a Dawes, well I'd have to say no.

Once upon a time the Galaxy was far and away the best touring bike money could buy, unless you went to one of the independent builders and had one made specially. That is simply not true anymore, and once you get into the price realms of the Super Galaxy you're looking at the price of a bespoke machine. And they aren't even that well designed as tourers anymore! 

I'd either buy secondhand, or get something more special. Thorn's Club Tour is in a different league to the Galaxy, for about the same price. So is the Hewitt Cheviot, or the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

And much as I hate to say this, I think £600 is too cheap to buy a new touring bike. There will be too many corners cut.


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## Ivan Ardon (27 Jan 2010)

I'd rate the 8 speed transmission more robust for touring than the Galaxy's nine speed. 

The Galaxy will hold more of it's value, but it is £400 more in the first place. 520 is a fine material for a touring frame, once loaded the difference between 631 and 520 isn't really noticeable.

If you're debating the Horizon Vs the Galaxy, have you considered the Dawes Vantage? SPA are doing them for under £400 and in all but name they appear to be the old alloy framed Horizon.


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## Ivan Ardon (27 Jan 2010)

Oh - and if you're worried about the STI's breaking, toss a cheap pair of thumb shifters in the panniers so you could make a running repair on the road.


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## xilios (27 Jan 2010)

I would go for the Horizon the specks are right.
I might change the front (small) ring to a 22 tooth for the really tough hills and probably the saddle, like a nice Brooks leather B17 or even beter a Champion flyer.
As far as Alivio goes I bought my bike used for 300 euro's in 2005, been to Greece, France, and Spain (check our webpage below) without any problems just needs a bit of care like clean and lube, but you need to do that on all the others also.
cheers


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## Davidc (27 Jan 2010)

I bought a 2008 Horizon last year, hardly used second hand, for what is more leisure use than touring (don't do that any more ) If I wanted to do distance I'd be quite happy to use the Horizon though. It gives a comfortable and very stable ride from unloaded up to (so far) about 20kg load, and seems well built and finished.

I've been very pleased with it so far, but have put smaller chainrings, decent tyres, and a comfortable saddle on it, all of which I'd consider essential for a long distance tour. The Horizon comes with a resonable rear rack but no front ones, but it does have the braze-on mountings for them.

I don't have experience yet of running the supplied gears for long distance, but have heard other people with the same experience as Baggy, that they don't give any trouble. The advice about putting a pair of cheap thumb shifters in your spares kit would hold good for any indexed shifters IMO - never had any fail but they all seem overcomplicated and flimsy.

I looked into a number of bike types before buying the Horizon and even at last years lower 'new' prices I considered all of the Galaxies grossly overpriced. The best package overall in their price range seemed to me the Surly LHT.


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## dragon72 (27 Jan 2010)

Call me a cheapskate but +1 for the Horizon.

Mine's done well over 10,000 miles since 2005 including a few loaded mountainous tours. No problems whatsoever. It's got me from A to B and sometimes from A to Z without any hassle at all.

I just don't know what spending hundreds more would have given me? On the Horizon, when I flick the Sora shifter connected to the Alivio mech, the gear changes cleanly and promptly. Just like I would expect it to. With Deore XT, does it bring you a cuppa too? It would have to for me to feel justified laying out so much more.


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## Muddyfox (27 Jan 2010)

I'd have a Kona Sutra ... just because its sooo Sexy 







And it's got a cool name


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## Bandini (27 Jan 2010)

Quite new to biking after long hiatus, but here is my tuppence worth:

Have you considered a Kara-Kum:

http://www.dawescycles.com/p-23-kara-kum-gents.aspx

Deore gears (and other better specs than the horizon I believe: http://minto.co.za/Dawes/dawes/kara-kum.htm 'Upgrades from Horizon' at the bottom of the page- not sure if it applies to 2009 model). The butterfly bars give lots of riding positions. I am very happy with mine.

Oh - someone advised me that the only trouble they had in several thousand miles touring was weak front panniers - they spent £30 on some Blackburn ones and job was a good 'un.


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## elduderino (27 Jan 2010)

Another Horizon fan here. I've done over 10,000 miles on mine. Nearly 8,000 of that fully loaded for touring and nothing broke. I did upgrade the rear wheel and rack though just to be safe. 

My Horizon has now been relegated to my commuting bike to make way for the Surly Long Haul Trucker for future tours. But I wouldn't hesitate to use my Horizon again.


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## irc (28 Jan 2010)

For touring I don't consider 9 speed an upgrade. Chains and cogs are narrower so wear out slightly quicker. 3x8 is plenty gears. 

My last 8 speed bike with downtube shifters went months or years without having to fine tune the cable. With 9 speed it seems to need adjusting more often. Perhaps less margin for error with narrower spacing.

Finally look at the price of 8 speed chains and cassettes compared to 9 speed.

As to the Alivio derailler. Wouldn't worryu, I had one on a commuter bike and it lasted several thousand miles with minimal adjustments or maintainance.

THe Horizon looks a better buy to me. I'd put on a smaller ring maybe a 24 in place of the 28 though.


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## Tedx (31 Jan 2010)

chris667 said:


> And much as I hate to say this, I think £600 is too cheap to buy a new touring bike. There will be too many corners cut.



I disagree with this. I bought my Dawes Galaxy second hand about about 2 years ago and used it as my main commuting bike as well as a touring bike. It got me from the UK to Barcelona with no problems and did a 14 mile round trip to work and back every week day. I also used to take it on short tours on the weekends. The only problems I had was on my last tour (3500 miles) of Europe when the chain finally snapped and the rear cassette and front derailleur needed changing. This of course is expected after at least 20,000 miles. That's without knowing what it had done before I bought it second hand.


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## vernon (1 Feb 2010)

upsidedown said:


> Hi K
> 
> The rear mechs on those bikes are:
> 
> ...




I had an Alivio mech on my tourer/Audax bike and it was still going string three years after installation when the bike frame snapped and I abandoned it in France.


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## vernon (1 Feb 2010)

chris667 said:


> And much as I hate to say this, I think £600 is too cheap to buy a new touring bike. There will be too many corners cut.



I have a Decathlon tourer bought in Orleans when my tourer's frame snapped. 

It cost me £350 and is doing a great job.

It costs £299 here in the UK.


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## BigonaBianchi (1 Feb 2010)

> Galaxy - Deore



I have a Galaxy 2007 and it came with deare. It got me down th elength of Germany into Switzerland, back to the uk and then down to the med no problem. I have replaced the cassette now but th efront chainset is origional. I am happy with bar end shifters as well, simple and functional. Dunno about the £400 difference though..especially a si felt the need to upgrade my galaxy with a brookes B 17, spds and schwalbe m+s straight out of the box. Its a rock solid bike especially under a heavy load


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## RedBike (1 Feb 2010)

If your packings like mine you'll have enough to carry without spare shifters. STI's are highly reliable. Worst case is you'll get stuck in one gear front or back.

In theory 8spd is more reliable than 9. But in the real world how you look after your drivetrain / the quality of the parts will make far more difference than the number gears (width if the chain). I doubt you'll find 8speed offers any reliability advantages over 9.

In my experiance the two things that fail most often are the wheels (buckling / snapped spokes) and the tyres (punctures). yet nobody has mentioned the quality of these on either bike. 

I would take a short section of spare chain + power links, patches + tubes and two or three spare spokes.


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