# Clipess - how much better?



## Kobie (31 Jul 2007)

Hi Folks,

I'm curious as to how much of a performance gain you get from going clipless - i.e. speed gain, endurance gains etc?

Cheers,
K.


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## peejay78 (31 Jul 2007)

loads.

tons, in fact.


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## laurence (31 Jul 2007)

heaps

stacks, in fact.

L


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## Big Bren (31 Jul 2007)

Lots.

Masses, in fact.

Bren


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## Dormouse (31 Jul 2007)

Noone will ever catch up with you. Far better performance boost than any drugs that I have tried.


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## Frazer (31 Jul 2007)

I used to have toeclips, and was doing a 26k loop i use for time trialling at a best of 32.6kph. 

The first time i used clipless i beat that with an average of 33.8kph, and now regularly make it at over 34kph average, quite a big difference for just changing shoes


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## HJ (31 Jul 2007)

Try it, you won't regret it...


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## slow down (31 Jul 2007)

A big improvement - plus it's more comfortable


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## Aperitif (31 Jul 2007)

...that reassuring click... push, pull... 

Kobie - you know it makes sense.

Don't delay, change your pedals today! (Ok - tomorrow then  )


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## starseven (31 Jul 2007)

Riding on flats will seem second rate after youve tried it!


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## Keith Oates (31 Jul 2007)

Probably the best extra you could buy for any bike, just take care in getting used to them!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bigtallfatbloke (1 Aug 2007)

I hav ejust switched to clipless and suddenly I can climb hills...well at least halfway !


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## Joe (1 Aug 2007)

I went clipless for the first time yesterday (Specialized Sonoma shoes with Crank Brothers Candy C pedals). 
I'm off to try them out today, wish me luck!


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## mosschops2 (1 Aug 2007)

Good Luuu-uuuck!!


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## ajevans (1 Aug 2007)

Practice unclipping out of them before riding into heavy traffic. 

Falling over sidewards in front of heavy traffic in Brixton was not a good memory for me.


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## Tynan (1 Aug 2007)

brill

the man in the LBS said 50-60%,m of what I'm still not sure

they make a huge difference, you feel like a proper cyclist


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## Kobie (1 Aug 2007)

Thanks folks - looks pretty unanimous then  I've just got myself a new tourer, so I want to get used to that before adding the extras, but clipless does seem the way to go!


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## Tynan (1 Aug 2007)

can be pricey admittedly but an utter no brainer if you can afford it


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## leoc (1 Aug 2007)

I'm probably going to get my first set of clipless at the wknd too. I understand that there would be a massive improvement over flats, but I've been using toeclips for a while now, so is there likely to be a big difference going from toeclips with straps to clipless?


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## bonj2 (1 Aug 2007)

it's definitely better, but not that much of a performance benefit although it is a bit so you might aswell do it. Just feels better and more connected. Wouldn't ever have them on a MTB though - would be a bit like putting dump valves on a landrover.


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## bonj2 (1 Aug 2007)

Kobie said:


> Thanks folks - looks pretty unanimous then  I've just got myself a new tourer, so I want to get used to that before adding the extras, but clipless does seem the way to go!



Definitely get double-sided ones, and the ones meant for MTBs (SPD), the ones meant for roadies (SPD-SL) are silly as you can't walk in the shoes as the cleats are sticking out - which seems a ridiculous idea to me, but hey. They like them though because they've got stiff soles.
Roadie ones I think are also single-sided which makes it a lot harder to clip in to them.


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## domtyler (1 Aug 2007)

bonj said:


> Definitely get double-sided ones, and the ones meant for MTBs (SPD), the ones meant for roadies (SPD-SL) are silly as you can't walk in the shoes as the cleats are sticking out - which seems a ridiculous idea to me, but hey. They like them though because they've got stiff soles.
> Roadie ones I think are also single-sided which makes it a lot harder to clip in to them.



In other words, he has never used roadie style pedals but has heard some overstated pitfalls and is now recounting them for us. Cheers for that bonj.

The truth is they are easier to get into and out of than MTB style ones,
you can walk short distances easily once you get used to it,
they have very stiff soles and together with the pedals are super efficient for pedaling,
they only need to be single sided as they automatically correct themselves to be hanging down the right way.

However a lot of less confident and/or older cyclists prefer SPDs so I wouldn't dismiss them altogether.


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## HJ (1 Aug 2007)

domtyler said:


> However a lot of less confident and/or _older_ cyclists prefer SPDs so I wouldn't dismiss them altogether.



What has age got to do with it? 

SPD-SL are fine if all you doing is racing, but if you are cycling as a means of transport i.e. commuting, touring, going to the shops etc, then MTB style SPDs are a lot more convenient. 

As for confidence, that just show the level of arrogance of some roadies!


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## Tynan (1 Aug 2007)

leoc said:


> I'm probably going to get my first set of clipless at the wknd too. I understand that there would be a massive improvement over flats, but I've been using toeclips for a while now, so is there likely to be a big difference going from toeclips with straps to clipless?



I used toe clips for ages and thought they were good, it's another league again, you clip your feet in and forget about them thereafter and concentrate on your legs


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## skwerl (1 Aug 2007)

Hairy Jock said:


> What has age got to do with it?
> 
> SPD-SL are fine if all you doing is racing, but if you are cycling as a means of transport i.e. commuting, touring, going to the shops etc, then MTB style SPDs are a lot more convenient.
> 
> As for confidence, that just show the level of arrogance of some roadies!



Agreed. MTB cleats are much better if you're unclipping 20 odd times along your commute, especially if it's wet. Road shoes aren't any stiffer than decent MTB shoes, the difference is that MTB shoes have grippy soles.
Road cleats give a bigger platform and I find them more comfy on long rides. I'd say they're harder to unclip from but that's probably cos my egg beaters (which I wouldn't recommend unless you want to change cleats every 4 months) are easy to unclip. Road cleats are easy enough to clip into


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## andy_wrx (1 Aug 2007)

bonj said:


> Wouldn't ever have them on a MTB though



I would *very much* have them on a MTB - without them, your feet are bounced off the pedals at the slightest bump and it's downright dangerous.


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## Lardyboy (1 Aug 2007)

Once you've gone clipless you never go back.


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## peejay78 (1 Aug 2007)

one-sided pedals are weighted and ridiculously easy to clip into. 

road pedals with a bigger cleat are made for cycling, not walking.


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## asterix (1 Aug 2007)

bonj said:


> Wouldn't ever have them on a MTB though - would be a bit like putting dump valves on a landrover.



There's no way I'd EVER put dump valves on a landrover. Well you just wouldn't would you?


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## fossyant (1 Aug 2007)

Commuting and off road - proper double sided spd's.

Road work then deffo SPD SL, TIME or LOOK (or egg beaters etc) - the cleat is bigger, more stable, shoes stiffer - I prefer them for distance/low stop rides.


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## Joe (3 Aug 2007)

Argh! I had two falls thanks to my clipless pedals in my 20 mile ride this morning. Having had a successful first ride out using them a couple of days ago I obviously switched off today
First one was the classic "forgot to clip out, topple over in middle of the road" job. The second was when I'd been waiting at a busy junction for ages and decided to make a go for it. After pushing forward to go I realised the gap wasn't big enough and tried to walk myself backwards whilst still clipped in with one foot. Not a good idea
It must look soooo stupid to non cyclists!


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## Tynan (3 Aug 2007)

supposedly everyones been there etc etc

haven't fallen yet in three months but I have had some near misses, including today where I got over interested in a lady cyclist's thigh while balancing tippy toe and over balancing

luckily they come out ok with a panicky yank


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## Gary D (3 Aug 2007)

What came out????


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## Tynan (3 Aug 2007)

it'd take more than a yank to get them out with the shorts I wear, spec if still clipped in on one side


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## barq (3 Aug 2007)

Joe said:


> Argh! I had two falls thanks to my clipless pedals in my 20 mile ride this morning. Having had a successful first ride out using them a couple of days ago I obviously switched off today



I think that's pretty much normal!


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## fossyant (3 Aug 2007)

Does anyone call SPD's, "Spud's" these days.... that's what we called them when they came out !


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## alecstilleyedye (4 Aug 2007)

definately a good move. if you don't intend on being off the bike for long there is nothing to beat a good set of road cleats (look, spd-sl etc). they give a better transfer of power to the pedal than spds. however, if you plan to walk a lot then spds are a good option, and there are even people who wear them on a flat club run on account of walking from bike to café counter.

i personally only run looks, (although mtb has a cheap pair of spd pedals) but that's just my preference and we are all different.

any clipless > any clips and straps


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## twowheelsgood (5 Aug 2007)

For a touring bike, look at the Shimano A520 pedals. These are a single-sided pedal but use normal SPD. This means you can use standard mountain or touring shoes but still have a larger contact patch for comfort and efficiency. Really I wouldn't even consider SPD-SL for touring, the shoes just aren't suitable, you really can't shop or go to the pub in them.


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## longers (5 Aug 2007)

Come winter I will be putting my platforms back on my commuting bike. I think they're going to feel like s**t in comparison. I haven't used them for months now.

The reason I'll be fiiting them again is that I only have the one pair of spd compatible shoes and commute twice a day. When they're cold and wet they'll stay like that for days. 


Hang on! This is an excuse to buy more shoes. I will not be fitting the platforms this winter


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## bonj2 (6 Aug 2007)

domtyler said:


> The truth is they are easier to get into and out of than MTB style ones


bollocks.
I have used them in fact, and the ones I tried although they were usually hanging down the right way, if the crank arms were moving at the time when I was trying to clip my right foot in or my right foot knocked it, this could send it spinning round the wrong way - hence why I find MTB ones easier to clip in to. Maybe it's just my method - I tend to leave my left foot clipped in at the top, and when setting off push my left pedal down and clip my right foot in when the right pedal's near the top.



domtyler said:


> you can walk short distances easily once you get used to it,


Yeah but it damages the cleats more.

For me MTB ones are better because I like being able to use the shoes just as normal shoes, I can walk round in them all day comfortably, drive in them, go to work in them - just like any other shoes - and I can't see any advantage I would get from having single-sided roadie pedals, but I can understand why a lot of people like them - a lot of roadies with all the drop handlebars and the lycra jerseys etc wouldn't be seen dead without the 'right' pedals.

I might add that I have _never_ had a fall due to clipless pedals....


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## bonj2 (6 Aug 2007)

andy_wrx;31219][quote name= said:


> Wouldn't ever have them on a MTB though



I would *very much* have them on a MTB - without them, your feet are bounced off the pedals at the slightest bump and it's downright dangerous.[/QUOTE]
only if you're sitting on the saddle going over bumps - which I personally never do! I sometimes have to 'find' my right foot position but only ever when I'm setting off. I can be riding really rocky/rooty trails and be confident of not losing my footing even though I've got crap shoes. I have got good pedals though, I think this makes a big difference.


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## luke's fleche (23 Jan 2009)

I find clipless pedals so much easier because you use the full 360 degree pedal stroke both a push and a pull but with flats you just get the push unless you use toe clips

hope this is some help to you


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## chfp77 (23 Jan 2009)

Defo much better going clipless.Few different types out there,i use look single side on my good bike(the one i race on) and use crank bros on my second bike.Get much more secure lock with the look so its harder to accidentally pull your foot out when your really going for it,but the crank bros are really good for getting in and out easier!


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## Angelfishsolo (24 Jan 2009)

Once you go clipless you will never want to go back. Massive power increase and more strength in your legs. You can not get better than that!!! If you are on an MTB take a look at the Shimano M520's - Great kit for the price.


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## ASC1951 (24 Jan 2009)

Going back to your original question. For me:-

Clipless - about 15% more efficient than nothing

Rigid shoes - about another 15% more efficient than trainers

Double sided for MTBs, single-sided on the road. Shoes with recessed cleats for both.

NB. 1. Racers generally use Look style cleats, which transfer more power (but are less convenient off the bike).
2. I made the figures up, but they won't be far out.


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## Downward (24 Jan 2009)

Tynan said:


> supposedly everyones been there etc etc
> 
> haven't fallen yet in three months but I have had some near misses, including today where I got over interested in a lady cyclist's thigh while balancing tippy toe and over balancing
> 
> luckily they come out ok with a panicky yank




Be Careful when yanking, especially with a woman in sight.


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## Downward (24 Jan 2009)

Oh and on the loosest setting all you need to do is wiggle your toes and you come unclipped.

If you get them asap after starting riding you get used to them so quickly.
I think I bought mine having only done 30 miles with the normal pedals.


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## lantern rouge (24 Jan 2009)

just gone clipless thanks to santa claus with some shimano shoes, pedals and SPD-SL "yellow" cleats.

Really pleased I did it, no falls yet, but still at the "furtive practising up and down the street in the dark" stage

now for some Lycra!


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## Randochap (24 Jan 2009)

As already mentioned, SPD if you spend any amount of time off the bike.

The limiting factor (for some) of all clipless systems but one is the amount of "float" (freedom of lateral movement), though most systems these days give enough for most people, from a biomechanical point of view.

Even given a small amount of float, the systems will always be guiding the foot back, due to spring tension, and this can present problems -- usually in the knees.

The one pedal/cleat system that avoids the issue altogether is made by Speedplay.

The Speedplay system moves the spring mechanism into the cleat and essentially allows unlimited float, without the tendency to re-centre.

The feeling for some is like skating on ice, but this soon feels normal. In fact, it feels natural because, especially out of the saddle, you are able to sway the bike without it yanking your feet around unnaturally.

I felt an immediate increase in power because of this freedom. And less knee problems because now my feet have re-assumed their natural (unnatural?) gait.

What's more, Speedplay have one of the largest platforms of any clipless system, due not to the little "lollipop" pedal, but the big cleat area.

The downside is that you must avoid clogging the cleat with mud and/or gravel. "Cafe caps" are available and I just pop those on when I'm off the bike.


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