# Campagnolo Ultratorque or Powertorque on Brompton?



## chriscross1966 (12 Nov 2016)

Has anyone here fitted a Campagnolo Ultra or Power Toque crankset to their Brompton?... is it as simple as getting a pair of 68mm threaded outside-bearing cups and a set of fittings?.. ASsuming that Brompton uses a 68mm English threaded BB here.... or have Bromtpon (as usual) used something slightly different that is non-standard?... If you have fitted one what were the issues with the chainrings (except for Campy's out-of-BCD proprietary chainring mounting screw, I can fix that, I have a lathe). If you've fitted both at different times would you recommend one over the other?... I know that I do have an option of using a 2006 or previous Campy crankset as it fitted square taper BB's, but the BB in Henrietta is four and a bit years old, I might as well change it while I'm having my midlife crisis, she's already getting a lot of titanium and carbon bits plus an 11 speed Alfine conversion and a custom made SON front hub...


----------



## TheDoctor (12 Nov 2016)

I've got no idea, but I think we need photos. That sounds very nice!!


----------



## 12boy (12 Nov 2016)

Brompton uses standard English thread 68 mm bottom brackets. Just curious, why do you want to do this? BTW old Campy square taper spindles/cranks are usually ISO, although the cranks seem OK with JIS spindles in my experience.


----------



## Dan Morinary (12 Nov 2016)

I'm putting a bespoke spoiler on mine.
Need down force man.
Oh. I haven't got a brompton. 
Wrong thread.


----------



## chriscross1966 (13 Nov 2016)

I did think about getting a square taper one, but they're a lot harder to find in carbon fibre, and my midlife crisis demands carbon fibre pedals. Anyway, following a conversation with my local bike shop (Warlands in Oxford) I've picked up a set of Campy Centaurs and found some intermediately flash bearings to put in them. Warlands are doing a significant amount of the specialised work to the bike and I generally include setting up bearing preloads as specialised so I'll get the cups from them. They have done that sort of conversion before so hopefully it won't be too hard


----------



## chriscross1966 (13 Nov 2016)

For pedals, read cranks please.... the pedals are going semi-spd, I think I can make a replica of the Brompton folding pedal middle plastic bit in ally and build in or bolt on the spd platform from an old set of SPD's...


----------



## 12boy (14 Nov 2016)

You can buy Shimano 2 way pedals, I have 2 pair, one on my Xootr Swift and the other pair on my Brompton. Thousands of miles and no issues. Very convenient to be able to wear sandals or heavy boots when the fancy takes me. BTW Velo Orange sells some nice light pedals with easily replaced cartridges that are very light ...236 grams for touring pedals.


----------



## Fab Foodie (14 Nov 2016)

chriscross1966 said:


> I did think about getting a square taper one, but they're a lot harder to find in carbon fibre, and my midlife crisis demands carbon fibre pedals. Anyway, following a conversation with my local bike shop (Warlands in Oxford) I've picked up a set of Campy Centaurs and found some intermediately flash bearings to put in them. Warlands are doing a significant amount of the specialised work to the bike and I generally include setting up bearing preloads as specialised so I'll get the cups from them. They have done that sort of conversion before so hopefully it won't be too hard


Just another endorsement fir Warlands ... A proper bike shop.


----------



## chriscross1966 (16 Nov 2016)

12boy said:


> You can buy Shimano 2 way pedals, I have 2 pair, one on my Xootr Swift and the other pair on my Brompton. Thousands of miles and no issues. Very convenient to be able to wear sandals or heavy boots when the fancy takes me. BTW Velo Orange sells some nice light pedals with easily replaced cartridges that are very light ...236 grams for touring pedals.



yes but they don't fold... closest alternative is an MKS removeable that is SPD+Platform, and they don't use the same cleats... I've got SPD's on my recumbent and my Sinclair C5 so I'd like to stick with them.


----------



## chriscross1966 (16 Nov 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Just another endorsement fir Warlands ... A proper bike shop.



Yep, even if I've got them tricking out a clown bike...


----------



## chriscross1966 (27 Nov 2016)

Annoyingly I found myself with the wrong chainring.... all the other bits are here... I do have a chainring that will fit, but won't work with the current chain cos it's too short as the chainring is a 52 and I don't have a spare chain to hand.... grrr.... oh well... next weekend.... I have solved the pedal crisis by ordering a pair of Exustars, they have a model with SPD one side and platform the other (so that the' right hand pedal straight away) and looking at it the SPD part is demountable from the pedal, hopefully I can mod the Brompton folding pedal to take the SPD part and still fold correctly... News from the far East is that my carbon rims ship Tuesday so should be here early the week after, we're still chasing the Germans for the custom SON-XS hub for the front.... I'm still in quandary about brake levers.... I've bought a pair of Brompton Black Editions, (well on ebay, so they're on their way here now) as well as a pair of J+L ultralightweights.... which I might use.... Im no weightweenie, and the Bromtpon ones do look lovely, but if the J+L's look as nice in the flesh as they do in the pictures then I'll have a real decision to make.... the front caliper is now for the chop if I can get the Campagnolo Veloce I've picked up on ebay (brand new, for a fiver) can be made to fit.... not because there was anything wrong with the Brompton one, but this one is black, and says "Campagnolo" on it. .. Have also ordered a Chris King headset, not because there's anything wrong with the Brompton one, but this one is black and says "Chris King" on it  That leaves the standard Brompton bit list once its finished as main frame, possibly brake levers, handlebar stem and mudguards, though they'll be changing to new ones cos my current pair are tatty and silver... that said if anyone has a set of 17Carbon's carbon mudguards, I'm in the market...


----------



## chriscross1966 (28 Nov 2016)

Pile of shiny things arrived at work today... the green leather PDW grips, the Exustar pedals and the H+H titanium half-rack.... I'm impressed with the speed the last of those arrived, shipped from Taiwan in around a week....


----------



## 12boy (28 Nov 2016)

How about some pics with all these little tasties?


----------



## chriscross1966 (28 Nov 2016)

ATM we're waiting on wheel rims, brake levers and the front hub. I need the brake levers to do the handlebar upgrades, not going to do the front fork and headset until the wheel is ready for it, and the same goes for the rear triangle... Cheapy chainring on order from SJS so hopefully BB and crankset can get done this week. Pedals will need a weekend day fabricating a Brompton folding pedal centre out of aluminium so I can bolt the Exustar cleat holder to it... Was hoping to just strengthen the plastic but now I've got the bits to hand that doesn't look feasible... I'm hoping to have it done by Christmas, though getting the gearing sorted out might take longer... I'll just have to get a few rear sprockets and see what suits... And it depends on when the 60t front turns up....


----------



## chriscross1966 (21 Dec 2016)

Ultratorque bracket in, Carbon Compact Centaur fitted..... needs a bit of fettling yet as there is a minor rub as I fold, but I can make some shorter chainring bolts to solve that, the current ones need washers as spacers to replace the other chainring...also might need to shave the LH side of the bottom bracket itself as I have pedal-slop issues, but they might also bee a bdding in issue that will clear up...


----------



## chriscross1966 (21 Dec 2016)

Still waiting on spokes for the wheelbuilds for the big ticket changes.... rims arrived a couple of weeks ago and are a thing of beauty... 60T chainring will need a quick kiss from a file to suit the Campy PCD... vostok.bike rear triangle also ordered so I will have a comparison at some point... Chris King headset won't be here until January so front fork swap delayed until then.... Hoping to have her done for the next Swindon Smallwheels ride... will also have a look at the upcoming Origami rides...


----------



## chriscross1966 (30 Dec 2016)

Well the spokes arrived just in time for Warlands Christmas shutdown, hopefully the Chris King headset will be here early next week and the wheels built up and then they can get cracking on the main body bits.. Still entertaining myself with the UT bottom bracket, have purchased (happy Xmas to ME!) a bottom bracket tapping and facing kit and have ordered some shim washers. This weekend I'll try and make up some "wrong way round" chainring bolts, basically a flanged tube nut that will run forward from the rear chainring position without being any deeper than the actual spiders nearest point to the frame, then wide-headed allen screws from the front. I'll make them out of M10's machined down to M6x.75, if that doesn't cure the slight rubbing as it folds I'll have to look at shimming the drive side out with the bottom bracket shims I have ordered, then refacing the non-drive side over to keep it in spec regarding bottom bracket width. The Tektro front caliper has arrived and doesn't look hard to modify to downwards pull, if I get that done this weekend I might even fit it. It looks more effective than the Brompton ones, though looks can be deceiving.... at least it is black, and that's what I want it for as much as anything else seeing as Brompton seem to be making it very difficult to get hold of Black Edition spares. The green coil-over shock has arrived, as has a carbon fibre saddle for which the austerity regarding apparent comfort is matched by the distinct lack of mass.. they can go on and I WILL get that damn seatpost shortened....


----------



## chriscross1966 (2 Jan 2017)

OK, well valuable if slightly more pricey than I hope lesson learned.... Brompton bottom brackets aren't all that good in the big scheme of things... you need to tap and face them (Wiggle do a kit for 120 quid) and then measure the damn thing cos my one was a tad over-width and rather than go to all the effort of trimming it down I've left out the wavy pre-load washer in the Ultratorque bottom bracket. At the moment I have a bottom bracket that isn't binding and is torques up to the manufacturers recommended 55nm. In the course of doing all that I've shagged the bearings I installed somewhat, so will need to get some more, and given that I think I want to space the whole thing over by a millimetre (i have some bottom bracket shims on the way) to stop the inside of the spider fouling on the rear frame as it folds, I think I need to come up with a powertool method of trimming that BB down.... I'm thinking of some way to mount a shell endmill on a drill might work or some sort of fixed-radius holder that I can mount on the tapping mandrell and use a smaller high-speed cutter to slim the bracket down....plan A is to go through my stuff and see if I have a suitable shell endmill anywhere.... I could swear I saw a pile of them a few weeks back in one of the sheds...


----------



## chriscross1966 (2 Jan 2017)

Aaaaaand...... now I realise I've been a cretin, indeed, that is mildly insulting to cretins..... I didn't read the spec sheets enough when I was getting this stuff together (who reads manuals anyway).... I've put a pair of 6805's in there.... they should be 6805N's (bugger 2).... the difference is a whole millimetre... that's where all the binding has come from... anyway, correct bearings on order now, the good news is that that should allow me to space the bracket over to the right a couple of millimetres with shims and get away with it.... (hurrah3).... and I won;t have to manufacture some kind of powertool bracket slimmer (hurrah4)


----------



## chriscross1966 (2 Jan 2017)

In further news, Henrietta has had her seatpost cut down to the correct length for me (slightly shorter than a extended post, but longer than a standard one), she has her new suspension unit with a racing green spring over the damper and the carbon fibre saddle is slightly more comfortable than I expected (which isn't hard, though the saddle is). I am noticing that the overall weight has come down now. Once all the mods are done I'll weigh her properly.... the aim is to get an 11-speed that weighs no more than the original 3-speed and preferably somewhat less...


----------



## chriscross1966 (6 Jan 2017)

In an exciting development, Henrietta is at Warlands, hopefully having her 11-speed back-end fitted. Still wiating on a Chris King headset to arrive before the front gets done...


----------



## chriscross1966 (7 Jan 2017)

Warlands had an apparently tough day fitting such a large hub into such tiny rims with such stiff spokes, so although the wheel got built, they didn't have time to fit it. It is a thing of wonder though, and we're booked back in for monday. 

Back to the bottom bracket and having pulled the wrong bearings out and put a cheap set of 6805N-2RS in there I've managed to shim over the drive side cup 1.5mm and there might be a bit more to come, but even that has massively improved the fouling issue. Waiting on some 0.3mm shims to arrive as I have, theoretically, 0.3 to 0.5mm of axial float in the crank.


----------



## chriscross1966 (8 Jan 2017)

Correction, Tuesday, Andy doesn't work Mondays :-).... Anyway these are the newly made chainring nuts.... Hurrah for having a lathe at home... The bolts are from the KCNC set












Chainring bolts



__ chriscross1966
__ 8 Jan 2017


















Chainring nuts



__ chriscross1966
__ 8 Jan 2017


----------



## chriscross1966 (8 Jan 2017)

Just had a test ride with these and a 2mm shim stack.. And its perfect as far as I can tell... No knocks, creaks or squeaks, no frame fouling when folding... Woohoo! Took long enough :-)


----------



## Gavrassaf (18 Aug 2017)

I also tried today to install my record 10 speed ultra tourqe crankset on my brompton , put the cups but the bolts as I fold the bike touch the frame ... can you describe what you did eventually? Did you put only shims between the arms and the cups ?


----------



## chriscross1966 (20 Aug 2017)

I put a 2mm shim under the drive side cup between the frame and the cup (after facing the drive side of the bracket flat and square) on Centaur and Chorus Carbon Compact cranks fitted with a 60t ring this gives enough clearance. I ended up making my own chainring screws, but have since found that by trimming an M10 penny washer it will fit on the inner ring plate and allow for normal chainring screws. The one behind the crank will need to be replaced with a shorter one, they are available, I made mine. You have to get rid of the spring/wavy washer and face the non-drive side of the bracket until it all torques up without binding.


----------



## Gavrassaf (20 Aug 2017)

Thanks Chris
So there is no way to fit the 53 chain ring ? Btw its no matter which chain ring I will put the screws will stay at the same spot and will avoid frame folding , I also tried to tourqe the crank w/o the left arm spring but it stack and won't moving freely any more , i put as you said the 2mm shim on crank side between the cup and frame , I will look for the screws you suggested ...


----------



## chriscross1966 (21 Aug 2017)

53 will fit, I've had a 50 and a 60 on that crank. I will try and get pictures if my setup. What is the screw head fouling on? My Brompton does have a Vostok rear triangle (titanium, takes 135mm hubs), but I've had the same crank setup with the Kinetics one and both the standard steel and titanium ones


----------

