# Most cost-effective way of making your Brompton faster?



## Melvil (14 Oct 2016)

Hi all,

I have now had my B (S6L since you ask) for nearly five months, commuting 3 miles each way into work most every day and I absolutely love my little machine (after I got nicer grips - Ergon GP2s suggested by some people here).

Now I am not the slowest person but I was wondering what mods to the machine there are that give most speed for the buck? (And before you say I know, the rider is probably the cheapest part to upgrade!) 

So - any ideas for mods that will increase the pace for not much cash?


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## smutchin (14 Oct 2016)

What do you consider not much cash? 

You could swap the tyres for Kojaks, assuming you don't have Kojaks already.

One thing I've heard of but not tried myself is swapping the S stem for a shorter M stem (but keeping the S bars), which would put you in a lower down (and therefore more aerodynamic) riding position.

Tbh, I don't think either of these upgrades would make a significant difference over a three mile journey.


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## Melvil (14 Oct 2016)

smutchin said:


> What do you consider not much cash?
> 
> You could swap the tyres for Kojaks, assuming you don't have Kojaks already.
> 
> ...



You're probably right - I might be on a hiding to nothing. I have the Kojaks btw.


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## screenman (14 Oct 2016)

Keep tyres inflated and moving parts lubricated.


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## HLaB (14 Oct 2016)

Take it on the train


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## raleighnut (14 Oct 2016)

700c wheels ?


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## simongt (14 Oct 2016)

As a Brompton owner myself and playing devils's advocate, if you want speed - why are you riding a Brommy - ?


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## Melvil (14 Oct 2016)

simongt said:


> As a Brompton owner myself and playing devils's advocate, if you want speed - why are you riding a Brommy - ?



True!


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## cheys03 (14 Oct 2016)

Most anything besides tyres will take too much away from the comfort and convenience of a standard bike IMO. Some further ideas:
SPD pedals and shoes. 
Ensure the seat height is efficient, if your height means you are at the limit of the standard or extended post, consider telescopic etc.
Front bag with less drag - e.g. Mini O
Firm suspension block if you have the standard/soft (tiny gains!).

As above though, 3 miles - say 15 mins at 12mph? Even if you increased average speed to 15mph you're only saving 3min.


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Oct 2016)

lose some weight and do some squats down the gym.


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## smutchin (14 Oct 2016)

cheys03 said:


> As above though, 3 miles - say 15 mins at 12mph? Even if you increased average speed to 15mph you're only saving 3min.



Three minutes is a big difference over a 3 mile ride. It might be the difference between me catching my train or not, for example. 

But I doubt you could actually make that much of a gain through changes to the bike alone.


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## 12boy (15 Oct 2016)

If you have a large bag in front that will create some drag and a bag off the saddle will be in the slipstream so to speak. Xootr has a nice rack/bag combo that holds the bag far enough back so your thighs don't hit. I agree with SPDs. Also if you are geared too low you may spin out some.


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## burntoutbanger (15 Oct 2016)

If you start wearing SPDs for a three mile commute surely any time saving will be lost by having to change shoes at either end no?

Puts on helmet...


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## Salty seadog (15 Oct 2016)

raleighnut said:


> 700c wheels ?



You barsteward, you beat me to it....


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## steveindenmark (15 Oct 2016)

I would like to thank you for making me laugh this morning.

My question has already been asked.

Why?


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## bikegang (15 Oct 2016)

60T chainring ...


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## Melvil (15 Oct 2016)

bikegang said:


> 60T chainring ...



Think you'd need legs like Chris Hoy to get that up Edinburgh hills....


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## Cycleops (15 Oct 2016)

Eat more Weetabix.


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## TrishnBonnie (15 Oct 2016)

Could always sell it and get a lighter folder with decent gearing. I left the station on my folder one day the same time as a bloke on a Brompton, he eventually only caught me up when I'd stopped at traffic lights and I knew he was approaching as I could hear him rattling like eck


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## Cycleops (15 Oct 2016)

You might get lynched by the Brompton Mafia for saying that @TrishnBonnie I should keep your whereabouts secret.


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## TrishnBonnie (15 Oct 2016)

Cycleops said:


> You might get lynched by the Brompton Mafia for saying that @TrishnBonnie I should keep your whereabouts secret.


Lol I like Brompton's met a lady with one yesterday she was chuffed with it but said it was heavy and difficult on hills. It looked ok shame they don't do a 20" wheel version, or even as is with good parts, I would buy one for the teeny fold


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

Just reading towpath talk and saw this, electric conversion kits for Brompton


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## dim (16 Oct 2016)

there is a lady in Cambridge who rides a Brompton that has a motor .... it's pretty fast (especially when she accelerates from a red traffic light) .... had me confused at first, as I never saw the motor.

http://www.foldingbikes.biz/page6.html


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## jefmcg (16 Oct 2016)

smutchin said:


> Three minutes is a big difference over a 3 mile ride. It might be the difference between me catching my train or not, for example


Yes, but in terms of the original question, the most cost effective way of saving 3 minutes journey time is to leave 3 minutes earlier. 

On a 3 mile journey, a large percentage of your time will be faffing at either end. It's almost certainly possible to save minutes of time getting ready, or even getting on and off your bike. Streamlining that, or setting your alarm 5 minutes earlier will is a better option.


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

User said:


> You had presumably arrived on the train before him though?


Nope same train I can unfold my bike quickly no twiddling bits


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## raleighnut (16 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Just reading towpath talk and saw this, electric conversion kits for Brompton
> View attachment 148047


That looks to be a good conversion kit,



dim said:


> there is a lady in Cambridge who rides a Brompton that has a motor .... it's pretty fast (especially when she accelerates from a red traffic light) .... had me confused at first, as I never saw the motor.
> 
> http://www.foldingbikes.biz/page6.html



Did you notice that my trike has a very similar kit fitted.


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## jefmcg (16 Oct 2016)

http://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/prices

Seems to be about £1000. You might save 10 minutes a day, but you'd be losing 30 minutes of activity in your day - which unless you have an active job would be detrimental to your health.


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## Cycleops (16 Oct 2016)

jefmcg said:


> http://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/prices
> 
> Seems to be about £1000. You might save 10 minutes a day, but you'd be losing 30 minutes of activity in your day - which unless you have an active job would be detrimental to your health.



Would also be detrimental to your bank account.

Can't understand why Brompton are so long in bringing out their own electric version.


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## TheDoctor (16 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Nope same train I can unfold my bike quickly no twiddling bits


OK, I'll bite...
What's this wonderful bike that's lighter, cheaper and faster than a Brompton, and unfolds quicker?


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## jefmcg (16 Oct 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> OK, I'll bite...
> What's this wonderful bike that's lighter, cheaper and faster than a Brompton, and unfolds quicker?


https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/better-fold-for-a-dahon.206944/#post-4459297


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> OK, I'll bite...
> What's this wonderful bike that's lighter, cheaper and faster than a Brompton, and unfolds quicker?


Bite? I've not seen anyone say that a Brompton is a better ride than a folder with 20" wheels. I got mine from robgul of the forum and he seems to have set it up to shift with the tyres on it lol. The frame is alloy so yes it's light and the fold is easy but not as small as a Brompton. I've said above that I would have a Brompton for the fold if they were improved with better parts. New price of mine was £700 new two years ago but not made anymore


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## TheDoctor (16 Oct 2016)

Ah, yes, I remember now.
Nice looking bike, but I'll stick with my M12R.
It would be fun to organise a CC Origami ride sometime, so we can try each other folders and such.


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## TrishnBonnie (16 Oct 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> Ah, yes, I remember now.
> Nice looking bike, but I'll stick with my M12R.
> It would be fun to organise a CC Origami ride sometime, so we can try each other folders and such.


Brilliant I'd be up for that bet others would too


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## simongt (16 Oct 2016)

12boy said:


> If you have a large bag in front that will create some drag



Yes, the front bag creates drag, but the weight actually improves the handling of a Brompton. It just takes a bit of getting used to when you turn a corner because the bag is attached to the main frame & it doesn't turn with the wheel as you would normally expect. But then that's how trade bikes were built.


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## midlife (16 Oct 2016)

I know very little about folders but saw a Kansi the other day.....are they any good?

Shaun


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## cheys03 (16 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> New price of mine was £700 new two years ago but not made anymore


Unfortunately for me this is the main drawback of the Dahon range, the rate at which they introduce new models and vary the component spec such that it becomes difficult to get spares after a relatively short time. Brompton components may be odd, but they are fit for purpose and (generally) well engineered for the task. I agree with your point on 20" wheels. I'm tall and would love a bigger Brompton, where 20" wheels are used and everything else is scaled up as required. The 20" Dahons are still attractive to me, but not enough to shift me from the Brompton.


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## T4tomo (16 Oct 2016)

User said:


> The correct answer to the question, something I am surprised has not been provided already, is to be going downhill. The tricky bit is arranging things so that you go downhill both ways.


Perfectly possible if you live in es(c)her


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## ufkacbln (17 Oct 2016)

smutchin said:


> What do you consider not much cash?
> 
> You could swap the tyres for Kojaks, assuming you don't have Kojaks already.
> 
> ...



Beware of the stem change as it can interfere with the larger bags on the front luggage mount


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## TrishnBonnie (17 Oct 2016)

midlife said:


> I know very little about folders but saw a Kansi the other day.....are they any good?
> 
> Shaun


I looked on Amazon and the single speed is practically half price and 3 speed unavailable. The reviews were fair and there's a review by Evans who sold them if you Google kansi folding bike


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## jefmcg (17 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> I looked on Amazon and the single speed is practically half price and 3 speed unavailable. The reviews were fair and there's a review by Evans who sold them if you Google kansi folding bike



Kansi had a complete product recall in 2011 due to frame failure. So be careful buying second hand. It looks like the company did not survive as their website is unreachable -
http://www.kansi.co.uk

Edit : this seems to be the distributor, but I can't see the manufacturer.


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## MichaelW2 (18 Oct 2016)

Minimise the faffing around element of your short journey. Pick an effective route, explore short cuts and detours and learn how to ride it efficiently. Think marginal gains at evey junction and halt you have to mak. Speed of riding has a small impact on short journeys.


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## John the Monkey (18 Oct 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> Could always sell it and get a lighter folder with decent gearing. I left the station on my folder one day the same time as a bloke on a Brompton, he eventually only caught me up when I'd stopped at traffic lights and I knew he was approaching as I could hear him rattling like eck


Brompton rattles are easy to cure.

Just ride somewhere loud enough to drown them out.


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## Kell (18 Oct 2016)

Unfortunately the biggest drawback to any bike is aerodynamics. Way more than any other thing. In fact, way more than friction, rolling resitance and weight combined.

And the Brompton's short, upright riding position makes it very difficult to improve it.


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## TheDoctor (18 Oct 2016)

True. I've never managed more than about 40 mph on a Brommie, and that was down a fairly impressive slope.
As others have said, the scope for saving time on a three mile trip is limited. My 3 mile round trip to Asda only varies by a couple of minutes no matter what I'm riding. Or driving, for that matter!


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## Kell (18 Oct 2016)

If you can access 4OD, from about 5 minutes 20, Mike Burrows goes into the dynamics (and aerodynamics) of a bike.

90% is air resistance.
7% is rolling resistance.
3% is total mechanical drag (chain, hub, bottom bracket etc.)

So you can see that making yourself more aerodynamic is the only area where you can make any real gains in the short term.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/speed-with-guy-martin/on-demand/58642-001


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## windmiller (18 Oct 2016)

The most cost effective way to make anyones brompton faster is make the rider fitter and leaner. Thus saving money on food and sometimes dubious style over substance modifications.


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## smutchin (18 Oct 2016)

Kell said:


> And the Brompton's short, upright riding position makes it very difficult to improve it.



The only way I know of is swapping for a shorter stem, as mentioned in my first reply to this thread.


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## Kell (18 Oct 2016)

I didn't swap the stem on mine, but I started with an H type and put low risers on it. 

Also pushing the seat right back on its rails as they come with them set very far forward.

I also flipped the pentaclip over as it gives an extra half cm or so.

Finally, I put bar ends on with allows me to stretch out a little further too.

Essentially though, it's fighting a losing battle.

I did run it with a C bag on for about a month and could really feel the difference in resistance.

I've gone back to my rucksack for numerous reasons, but gusty cross winds blowing onto that bag was a major factor.


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## 12boy (19 Oct 2016)

Yesterday as I rode home into a 20 mph headwind with a 12""x 12" inch bag in front I could feel the difference. I had 6 books and my tool roll in the bag so it probably weighed about 8 lbs, but the weight made little difference, as going with the wind I couldn't tell it was there. I have an S type with stubby bar ends, my seat is all the way back, and I have 2 way SPD pedals. All of those help. Had I used my big shopping bag basket it would have been much worse. BTW, I live 3.5 miles from work and use a variety of routes depending on how long I have to ride and the weather. Don't like to get to work sweaty. Unless it is all uphill and/or a headwind is involved 3 miles can't take very long.


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## chriscross1966 (13 Nov 2016)

The obvious way is to pick up a bicycle trainer from Freecycle and spend an hour+ a day training on it.... The best way to make mine faster would be for me to lose a stone or two and get fit, instead of which I'm covering it in titanium and carbon fibre bits....


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## jefmcg (13 Nov 2016)

chriscross1966 said:


> The obvious way is to pick up a bicycle trainer from Freecycle and spend an hour+ a day training on it.


So which "bicycle trainers" work with 16" wheels.


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## 12boy (14 Nov 2016)

You might do better with resistance training to build up muscle mass in your legs, toe raises, leg extensions and squats for example. While at that you can punish your core as well. Probably run through a routine in 30 minutes including a few stretches after that would leave your legs wobbly. What fun!


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## Blurb (14 Nov 2016)

Trim a few seconds, and a (very) little weight, off fold time with these:
https://bikegang.ecwid.com/#!/Bromp...ge-solution-RIDEA/p/37699500/category=9803294


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## Fab Foodie (14 Nov 2016)

Over the years I've come to realise the best performance upgrade is not giving a fying fluck how fast you're going.


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## reppans (15 Nov 2016)

Hello Noob here..

Just wanted to share an idea for drop aero position for those with M bars. I recently hacked a plastic tube about the size of paper towel core to fit in the bottom of the "U" on the M bars for an additional drop/aero hand position when cruising the smooth flats, against headwinds, and well, just to get a lower position similar to that of my other bikes. I can only fit a hand and a half in there so it takes some getting used to equally weight the bars, feel comfortable from security/stability perspective, and develop muscle memory for the unique hand position. 

For me, it's been the single best speed/efficiency improvement (I have the Ergon GP2, and Alphabet Cottage half clips). I actually started using the drop position on a short-term basis with the stock bars (so anyone can try it out) - the tube hack just makes it comfortable for long-term use. Of course, you have no brakes or shifting from this position, and given the already sensitive small-wheeled steering, it may feel disconcerting and take quite a while to get comfortable with.


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## TheDoctor (15 Nov 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Over the years I've come to realise the best performance upgrade is not giving a fying fluck how fast you're going.


Another approach is to do everything in kilometers instead. Instant 60% improvement in everything!


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