# Winter Training rides



## xxmimixx (1 Dec 2012)

Hi. 
Just a question.
Does riding in winter / cold temperatures give any extra phisical / fitness benefits than if you ride in more mild climate conditions?

For ref cold Id say sub 7 degrees. Mild over 10ish


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## black'n'yellow (1 Dec 2012)

no - not really. Just colder.


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## derrick (1 Dec 2012)

And harder.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Dec 2012)

Apart from looking really hard or dedicated nope


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## xxmimixx (1 Dec 2012)

so riding in the cold doesnt make you work harder, to keep warm or anything....  I know if effects my performance as I cant cycle as fast while i go brrbrbrbrbbbrrrrr  BUT at least I thought I was benefiting elsewhere....


there my friend Google tells me that you burn brown fat in cold cycling 
http://www.dillonbikes.com/cycling-tips/benefits-of-winter-riding/


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## Rob3rt (1 Dec 2012)

No, although, there is the obvious issue of dedication, those who are dedicated enough to train in the cold and wet will be more likely to succeed than those who are not as dedicated.


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## Banjo (1 Dec 2012)

Cold weather riding or any exercise is harder as your body is using energy just to keep warm. good excuse for an extra cake 

Some interesting comments about cold weather riding here http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=65888.msg0#new


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## Trail Child (1 Dec 2012)

I am still commuting in sub zero weather, but all my training rides are inside in front of the TV. 

I'm crazy but not that crazy. 

ETA: I've heard of the 'burn more fat' thing before. I haven't bothered to research it excuse it's not the reason I till do it. I enjoyed running in cold too. I think it makes you mentally stronger. I do have a tendency of losing more weight in winter, but that's anecdotal.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (1 Dec 2012)

Trail Child said:


> I am still commuting in sub zero weather, but all my training rides are inside in front of the TV.
> 
> I'm crazy but not that crazy.
> 
> ETA: I've heard of the 'burn more fat' thing before. I haven't bothered to research it excuse it's not the reason I till do it. I enjoyed running in cold too. I think it makes you mentally stronger. I do have a tendency of losing more weight in winter, but that's anecdotal.


It's not as true as people would like it to be really. Heat is always a byproduct of working muscle - this heat forces the body to sweat to dissipate it when it's ambiently warm - the same heat is enough to warm you in most winter conditions, providing you aren't running naked in -5 or something. The calorie requirements don't change,just how the heat is used.

No situation(hot or cold) is better for burning fat - that is a dietry and training matter

ps:


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## MrJamie (1 Dec 2012)

I struggle to get the temperature right for any proper cycling when its cold, so I dont really enjoy it either. Im either too cold or I overheat, sweat and get too cold and its not comfortable, so i tend to wear a bit extra and go slower, which is safe anyway I guess - Maybe a side effect of keeping away from the lycra? Im not averse to the cold though, I was out for an hour running earlier in shorts, baselayer and a top earlier at 2 degrees splashing through iced water.


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## Rob3rt (2 Dec 2012)

MrJamie said:


> *I struggle to get the temperature right for any proper cycling when its cold, so I dont really enjoy it either*. Im either too cold or I overheat, sweat and get too cold and its not comfortable, so i tend to wear a bit extra and go slower, which is safe anyway I guess - *Maybe a side effect of keeping away from the lycra?* Im not averse to the cold though, I was out for an hour running earlier in shorts, baselayer and a top earlier at 2 degrees splashing through iced water.


 
Possibly part of the problem, if you wear the right clothing and layer up well you will be good to ride in the cold, the temperature shouldn't bother you much if at all and yet you shouldn't overheat, you can always remove a layer and stuff it in your jersey pocket too 

So far this winter I have cycled (I cycle in all weather except ice and snow - about 38 hours a month for the last few months) with either a pair of standard lycra cycling shorts or a pair of 3/4 fleece shorts, a pair of roubaix leg and arm warmers, a base layer and then either a race jersey (tight and breathable) or more recently a fleecy inner long sleeve jersey (not because the race jersey was cold, but just because my order for club kit arrived and included this long sleeve). A pair of windstopper gloves and a pack down waterproof top off the ensemble! I have not been uncomfortable yet! Oh and some overshoe covers! Although I admit, I often don't bother and do get cold feet.

Slightly annoying as I did buy a load of nice winter gear, but I just haven't felt the need for it yet.


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## lulubel (2 Dec 2012)

MrJamie said:


> I struggle to get the temperature right for any proper cycling when its cold .... Maybe a side effect of keeping away from the lycra?


 


Rob3rt said:


> Possibly part of the problem, if you wear the right clothing and layer up well you will be good to ride in the cold, the temperature shouldn't bother you much if at all and yet you shouldn't overheat, you can always remove a layer and stuff it in your jersey pocket too


 
It depends a lot of what kind of riding you're doing, too. If you're riding on safe roads - as in there's nothing majorly slippery on the surface - you can push on and keep your body producing warmth, so you maintain a fairly steady temperature. If you're riding a mixture of safe and slippery roads, you get times when you're pushing on and times when you're having to take it slow, so you're liable to be too hot in one situation or too cold in the other.

My worst experience was mountain biking on Friday. I climbed over 800m, and I was pretty warm on the climb in just a thin baselayer and windstopper jacket (undone), mitts and nothing warm on my neck and head. By the time I'd done the descent into a northerly wind, I was so cold I literally couldn't feel my fingers and my stomach muscles were cramping. I really needed to carry a warm jersey, buff, hat and winter gloves to put on for the descent.

So, from my experience, the only option if you're doing varied rides in cold conditions is to be prepared to stop often and add or shed layers.


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## Rob3rt (2 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> *It depends a lot of what kind of riding you're doing, too. If you're riding on safe roads - as in there's nothing majorly slippery on the surface - you can push on and keep your body producing warmth, so you maintain a fairly steady temperature. If you're riding a mixture of safe and slippery roads, you get times when you're pushing on and times when you're having to take it slow, so you're liable to be too hot in one situation or too cold in the other.*
> 
> My worst experience was mountain biking on Friday. I climbed over 800m, and I was pretty warm on the climb in just a thin baselayer and windstopper jacket (undone), mitts and nothing warm on my neck and head. By the time I'd done the descent into a northerly wind, I was so cold I literally couldn't feel my fingers and my stomach muscles were cramping. I really needed to carry a warm jersey, buff, hat and winter gloves to put on for the descent.
> 
> So, from my experience, the only option if you're doing varied rides in cold conditions is to be prepared to stop often and add or shed layers.


 
Not necessarily, if you are wearing the right technical clothing! As for hills, climbing and descending, well the wind chill is evident even in the summer, i.e. the need for windproof gilet's.


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## lulubel (2 Dec 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> As for hills, climbing and descending, well the wind chill is evident even in the summer, i.e. the need for windproof gilet's.


 
Not here, it isn't!


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## lulubel (2 Dec 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> Not necessarily, if you are wearing the right technical clothing!


 
Sorry, forgot to say, how would you define the right technical clothing? I'm dripping in sweat - and I do literally mean it's dripping off me - climbing in 0-5C wearing just a Helly Hansen Dry base layer with my Gore Windstopper jacket undone. Descending in the same conditions, same clothes (but with the jacket done up and all the vents closed), I'm so cold I'm getting stomach cramps and I can't feel the brake levers.

I tried a lot of different cycle specific clothing before I moved on to non-cycling technical clothing, and the Helly Hansen is the best I've found because the sweat dries quickly. If I wore anything heavier, it would be so soaked with sweat the moment I put any effort in that I'd be chilled very quickly as soon as I reduced the effort and the sweat cooled, hence my comment about adding and removing layers.


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## Rob3rt (2 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> Not here, it isn't!


 
That's why the pro's pull on gilet's in the Tour, Giro, Vuelta etc


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## lulubel (2 Dec 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> That's why the pro's pull on gilet's in the Tour, Giro, Vuelta etc


 
Sorry, I don't understand that comment at all.

I was saying, when the temperature is 35C, what you're calling windchill is what I'd call a very pleasant cooling breeze.


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## poynedexter (2 Dec 2012)

"brown fat"???? never heard of that before. "is activated" i dont understand it at all


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (2 Dec 2012)

poynedexter said:


> "brown fat"???? never heard of that before. "is activated" i dont understand it at all


It is pretty specialist, used to generate heat in humans and hybernating animals. Not entirely sure why anyone would want to burn it, but mimi's :P does suggest that she is aware of this.


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## MattHB (2 Dec 2012)

xxmimixx said:


> Hi.
> Just a question.
> Does riding in winter / cold temperatures give any extra phisical / fitness benefits than if you ride in more mild climate conditions?
> 
> For ref cold Id say sub 7 degrees. Mild over 10ish


 
sub 0 for me is harder work, but only due to extra concentration on road conditions, grip etc. If you have the right gear it shouldnt make a difference. Its harder to balance the gear though, so layers is the answer.

Yesterday it was -2 and we did 60 miles, at least 30 of which I did in just a base layer and LS gore thermo jersey, although that is testament to the jersey and the Odlo base layer. But it was hard hard work, even though it was slower than normal, we had to be extremely careful with the ice, and for some reason I found myself on the front alllllll the time!


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## MrJamie (3 Dec 2012)

lulubel said:


> It depends a lot of what kind of riding you're doing, too. If you're riding on safe roads - as in there's nothing majorly slippery on the surface - you can push on and keep your body producing warmth, so you maintain a fairly steady temperature. If you're riding a mixture of safe and slippery roads, you get times when you're pushing on and times when you're having to take it slow, so you're liable to be too hot in one situation or too cold in the other.
> 
> My worst experience was mountain biking on Friday. I climbed over 800m, and I was pretty warm on the climb in just a thin baselayer and windstopper jacket (undone), mitts and nothing warm on my neck and head. By the time I'd done the descent into a northerly wind, I was so cold I literally couldn't feel my fingers and my stomach muscles were cramping. I really needed to carry a warm jersey, buff, hat and winter gloves to put on for the descent.
> 
> So, from my experience, the only option if you're doing varied rides in cold conditions is to be prepared to stop often and add or shed layers.


Sounds horrible, theres not much worse than cycling while feeling like you're freezing to death.

I think thats it really though, the effort level is so varied and it feels like the wind can really take heat away quickly if you start to get cold and damp with sweat, especially as I tend not to ride that hard except where i have to to get up hills, as its more for enjoyment than cardio training. A lot of my routes are more trail and cyclepaths than roads, so cant always push that hard anyway. I usually wear some very lightweight combats because they seem to work well and up top various combinations of base/mid layers/jackets. I could probably do with a decent cycling jacket as mine dont really stop the wind.


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## Owen Burgess (3 Dec 2012)

Good quality bib-tights, base layer and a good quality thermal long sleeve jersey if its not raining. Take stuff some newspaper in at the start of the ride and put it in your back pocket once you've warmed up. Pop it back in you stop for a cafe break. 

Dress up warm and ride slow. My advice for winter training. Work on your speed when it warms up again or on the turbo if you're really keen this time of year!


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## MrGrumpy (9 Dec 2012)

xxmimixx said:


> Hi.
> Just a question.
> Does riding in winter / cold temperatures give any extra phisical / fitness benefits than if you ride in more mild climate conditions?
> 
> For ref cold Id say sub 7 degrees. Mild over 10ish


 

I refer you to http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#9


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## david k (9 Dec 2012)

i remember reading that exercise in colder weather is harder as your body find it harder to use oxygen or something like that

this ring any bells with anyone?


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## Licramite (16 Jan 2013)

I find wind proof is the most important thing in the cold weather. I'm looking for a scull cap to go under my helmet as my head gets pritty cold. - when the air is icey some sort of face protection is needed.
but I find once you have built up steam I only notice the wind chill.
of course its the problem of , when cycling you soon get warm enough, but if you stop you freeze. 

If the air's freezing it certainly is hard on the respirative system , then its best to breath trough a face marsk.
takes a bit of getting use to.


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## black'n'yellow (16 Jan 2013)

using a face 'marsk' is not a good idea if you are riding with any degree of intensity - you simply won't be able to pull enough air through it. In any case, the lungs are remarkably good at heat transfer. No matter how fast you inhale/exhale, the exhaled air always comes out warm....


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## Rob3rt (16 Jan 2013)

Breathing in very cold air can irritate your respiratory system though, I think this is what Licramite is trying to say, but then again, who knows, I understand about 5% of the stuff he types.


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## montage (16 Jan 2013)

Interestingly there is evidence that riding in the heat provides benefits - not seen anything about riding in the cold though, but the paper did mention how it was possible to acclimatize to both hot and cold weather at the same time (not literally the same time i.e. sitting in the sauna with your balls in a bucket of ice, but over the same period)


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## Licramite (17 Jan 2013)

when its really cold - (a bad day in the arctic) - it's like breathing razor blades. if it ain't covered, it's frostbitten in minutes. - you see little burn lines between the goggles and the face mask (marsk is how we say it in wiltshire - ooh arr) - and you get used to breathing through a mask - it's had to say if it impaired performance we jogged and ski-trekked , it was the conditions that slowed us down more than anything else.
The cold definitely makes physical exertion harder. and more complicated as you strip off before , dry and cover up quickly after or your sweat freezes on your clothes. 

when it's really cold your not going to cycle as efficiently , and when you stop, dry yourself then cover up.

I find warmth energises me, I don't mind sweating buckets till it runs into my eyes and mouth, - but I hate the cold. - the only escape is hard physical effort and even then your fingers and toes are painfully frozen.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Cycling certainly seems to be a lot more hard work when the temperature dips below zero, but that could just be because I'm not as fit as I would like to think I am.


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## Rob3rt (17 Jan 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Cycling certainly seems to be a lot more hard work when the temperature dips below zero, but that could just be because I'm not as fit as I would like to think I am.


 
Are you wrapping up warm?

Other than the cold irritating my asthma I don't find it any worse tbh.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Are you wrapping up warm?
> 
> Other than the cold irritating my asthma I don't find it any worse tbh.


 
My legs and body are fine, my toes get cold because I don't bother with overshoes on the way to work and my fingertips get cold. It's my face that seems to suffer a bit, I've started a thread (big surprise)...


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## Licramite (17 Jan 2013)

you can get face masks with mouth slits or thinned areas by the mouth.
or a face cream you put on (its like vasaline) that justs protects the skin on cheaks and chin and around the lips and it doesn't make you overheat like a mask does.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Licramite said:


> you can get face masks with mouth slits or thinned areas by the mouth.
> or a face cream you put on (its like vasaline) that justs protects the skin on cheaks and chin and around the lips and it doesn't make you overheat like a mask does.


 
The blokes at work are only just coming to terms with me arriving in lycra, arriving with a face covered in bum lube might cause a level of hilarity that could rupture spleens.


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## Graham (17 Jan 2013)

You burn more calories in the summer. Your heart has to work harder to keep you cool i.e. pumping blood to the surface of the skin to cool the blood. Winter is about getting the layers right to keep you 'just right' - this has taken me a while and I've usually ended up wearing too much because I've stuck my finger out of the window before I rode and used that a judgement of what to wear. However, I've got an outside thermometer and now know exactly what to wear depending on the temperature (and wind). Quick blast on the inhaler usually sorts out my asthma.


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## Andrew_Culture (17 Jan 2013)

Graham said:


> You burn more calories in the summer. Your heart has to work harder to keep you cool i.e. pumping blood to the surface of the skin to cool the blood. Winter is about getting the layers right to keep you 'just right' - this has taken me a while and I've usually ended up wearing too much because I've stuck my finger out of the window before I rode and used that a judgement of what to wear. However, I've got an outside thermometer and now know exactly what to wear depending on the temperature (and wind). Quick blast on the inhaler usually sorts out my asthma.


 
I'm getting there with a similar process of having set clothing for certain temperature bands. I also work to the rule that I should be slightly too cold when first starting out.


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## Graham (17 Jan 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I'm getting there with a similar process of having set clothing for certain temperature bands. I also work to the rule that I should be slightly too cold when first starting out.


 
Agree with that - I'm 'lucky' in that my first 1/2 mile is usually uphill so gets some warmth into my legs pretty quickly.


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## BrumJim (17 Jan 2013)

Graham said:


> You burn more calories in the summer. Your heart has to work harder to keep you cool i.e. pumping blood to the surface of the skin to cool the blood. Winter is about getting the layers right to keep you 'just right' - this has taken me a while and I've usually ended up wearing too much because I've stuck my finger out of the window before I rode and used that a judgement of what to wear. However, I've got an outside thermometer and now know exactly what to wear depending on the temperature (and wind). Quick blast on the inhaler usually sorts out my asthma.


 
Heater uses more energy than an air conditioning unit, so logically you burn more calories in winter as your body tries to keep warm.
Sadly I have no evidence to back up this wild guess. However I am justifying a cooked breakfast tomorrow due to cold weather, as I have not managed to complete my qualifying lunch-time (or evening) ride this week.


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## Graham (17 Jan 2013)

BrumJim said:


> Heater uses more energy than an air conditioning unit, so logically you burn more calories in winter as your body tries to keep warm.
> Sadly I have no evidence to back up this wild guess. However I am justifying a cooked breakfast tomorrow due to cold weather, as I have not managed to complete my qualifying lunch-time (or evening) ride this week.


 
If you ride in shorts and t-shirt then yes your body will use up a lot of calories trying to keep warm - in which case you definitely need a fry up! Release the frying pan!


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## black'n'yellow (17 Jan 2013)

Graham said:


> You burn more calories in the summer. Your heart has to work harder to keep you cool i.e. pumping blood to the surface of the skin to cool the blood.


 
Actually, the opposite is true - you will burn more calories in the winter. And 'pumping blood to the surface of the skin' is not how the body keeps cool. Look up 'perspiration'.....


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## Graham (17 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> Actually, the opposite is true - you will burn more calories in the winter. And 'pumping blood to the surface of the skin' is not how the body keeps cool. Look up 'perspiration'.....


 
Just did. I am right.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (17 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> Actually, the opposite is true - you will burn more calories in the winter. And 'pumping blood to the surface of the skin' is not how the body keeps cool. Look up 'perspiration'.....


Just to throw a spanner in here.

Heat is a byproduct of work - which in "warmer" weather is the reason for perspiration. Wouldn't the same heat (particularly in vital organs/core temp) be ample in colder weather to keep warm,providing your clothing choices are up to the task and you aren't shivering?

And therefore no calorie burn benefit?


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## black'n'yellow (17 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Just to throw a spanner in here.
> 
> Heat is a byproduct of work - which in "warmer" weather is the reason for perspiration. Wouldn't the same heat (particularly in vital organs/core temp) be ample in colder weather to keep warm,providing your clothing choices are up to the task and you aren't shivering?
> 
> And therefore no calorie burn benefit?


 
But perspiration isn't necessarily 'work dependent' - you can still perspire without doing work, if it's hot enough.

Re the 'wrapping up' thing - that might be true if you were 100% insulated from the cold - but from a practicality point of view, that ain't gonna happen, because if you were fully isulated, you would overheat very quickly once you started to exercise. In any case though, if you are riding through colder, denser air, then your body will use more energy trying to maintain both temperature and output - especially on the parts that may not be as warm as they usually are.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (17 Jan 2013)

black'n'yellow said:


> But perspiration isn't necessarily 'work dependent' - you can still perspire without doing work, if it's hot enough.
> 
> Re the 'wrapping up' thing - that might be true if you were 100% insulated from the cold - but from a practicality point of view, that ain't gonna happen, because if you were fully isulated, you would overheat very quickly once you started to exercise. In any case though, if you are riding through colder, denser air, then your body will use more energy trying to maintain both temperature and output - especially on the parts that may not be as warm as they usually are.


I don't see it, which is not to say you're wrong.


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## black'n'yellow (17 Jan 2013)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I don't see it, which is not to say you're wrong.


 
ok, let's look at it another way 

Obviously you will need additional clothing/weather protection in the cold. But this clothing is almost certainly not sufficient to 'trick' your body into thinking it is riding in the summer - especially if you intend on riding with any degree of intensity. Just because you are not cold whilst out on a ride, does not mean your warmth is 100% down to the clothes you are wearing. Don't forget your body is being 'cooled' from the inside as well - through the cold air you are inhaling. You can see I'm not getting the words out here, but that's about the best I can do...


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## Licramite (19 Jan 2013)

you burn more calories in the cold, our calorific intake was almost doubled in norway, and it needed to be. core temperature is most important, - it's a fine balance on clothing between , to little - freezing extremities and to much - sweat. - you don't want to sweat. you can get away with very little clothing as long as it's windproof , we stripped before going trekking to underwear and windproof outer covering only , you froze till you got going then your body kept you warm.

an alternative to a face mask or barrier cream - grow a beard.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (19 Jan 2013)

I'm pretty sure Norway is colder than Wiltshire


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