# My Garmin switched itself off mid ride. Any ideas why?



## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

Its a fairly basic model (200 edge?).
It was on approx 50% charge when at 12 miles it beeped and switched off. I immediately re-started it and was able to "resume" my ride.
The whole ride was 28 miles and it behaved the remainder of the way.
Its never done it before and never given me any problems.
Any ideas why it would do that ?


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## OldShep (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Its a fairly basic model (200 edge?).
> It was on approx 50% charge when at 12 miles it beeped and switched off. I immediately re-started it and was able to "resume" my ride.
> The whole ride was 28 miles and it behaved the remainder of the way.
> Its never done it before and never given me any problems.
> Any ideas why it would do that ?


It’s what Garmin do 
Every Garmin I’ve ever had ( Etrex, Oregon, Edge) has done that at some point. Battery connection and vibrations are often cited.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

OldShep said:


> It’s what Garmin do
> Every Garmin I’ve ever had ( Etrex, Oregon, Edge) has done that at some point. Battery connection and vibrations are often cited.


Really? I had no idea. TBH I worried it may be on the way out.
Thanks for that.


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## Globalti (25 Aug 2019)

Throw it away and buy a map. They keep going for ever and they show the entire county at a glance.


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

Does it need updating, its memory card cleaning or a factory reset even?


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Aug 2019)

One of the blips mine used to suffer. Wahoo now.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Does it need updating, its memory card cleaning or a factory reset even?


Really, I have no idea. I didnt know it had a memory card.
If it happens again I will look into those things.


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## ColinJ (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Does it need updating, its memory card cleaning or a factory reset even?





Dave7 said:


> Really, I have no idea. I didnt know it had a memory card.
> If it happens again I will look into those things.



Edge 200s are VERY simple... They DON'T have memory cards and are not 'smart' so do not need resetting!



OldShep said:


> It’s what Garmin do
> Every Garmin I’ve ever had ( Etrex, Oregon, Edge) has done that at some point. Battery connection and vibrations are often cited.


Etrex models definitely do/did that. My ancient Etrex H used to switch itself off when I cycled over bumps in the road. The reason is that there are internal battery connections using wipers onto the PCB. They can bounce for a split second and Garmin (in their infinite wisdom) had not thought to include a small capacitor to hold the power line up until the connection remade. Those GPS units have AA batteries inside and the problem seems to be that having batteries bouncing about is not a good idea. I managed to almost completely solve the problem by wedging the batteries firmly in place with a small piece of Blu Tack.

I would be surprised if the battery in an Edge 200 isn't actually soldered in place so bouncing batteries/terminals would not be the problem.

I just did a quick online search and one review mentioned that the device will switch itself off some time after you stop recording a ride. It is a power saving feature. My guess is that you either forgot to start recording, or accidentally stopped!


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Edge 200s are VERY simple... They DON'T have memory cards and are not 'smart' so do not need resetting!
> 
> !


Fair enough. I don’t usually buy the entry level stuff


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Edge 200s are VERY simple... They DON'T have memory cards and are not 'smart' so do not need resetting!
> 
> 
> Etrex models definitely do/did that. My ancient Etrex H used to switch itself off when I cycled over bumps in the road. The reason is that there are internal battery connections using wipers onto the PCB. They can bounce for a split second and Garmin (in their infinite wisdom) had not thought to include a small capacitor to hold the power line up until the connection remade. Those GPS units have AA batteries inside and the problem seems to be that having batteries bouncing about is not a good idea. I managed to almost completely solve the problem by wedging the batteries firmly in place with a small piece of Blu Tack.
> ...


I cannot be adamant (not the singer) but dont think I stopped it. I did have a few drink stops and paused it a few times.
I will take those points on board and ensure I dont make that error.
Thanks for that.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Fair enough. I don’t usually buy the entry level stuff


Well I am but a poor boy so have to make do


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## ColinJ (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Fair enough. I don’t usually buy the entry level stuff


I can't even afford the entry level stuff! 

My Etrex is 13 years old. I also have an Edge 500 but that was donated to me by my cousin when he bought his Wahoo Elemnt Bolt.


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Well I am but a poor boy so have to make do


It’s why I work


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## Crackle (25 Aug 2019)

Perhaps you were going too slow and it fell asleep.


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## HLaB (25 Aug 2019)

I've never had that with a 200 or 130 but its happened to me a few times with other models. A bad vibration I think causes a brief disconnection of something. It seems to happen less often with the wahoo's but they seem to lose the whole ride :-/


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## ColinJ (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I cannot be adamant (not the singer) but dont think I stopped it. I did have a few drink stops and paused it a few times.
> I will take those points on board and ensure I dont make that error.
> Thanks for that.


Hang on... pausing it = stopping it! 

I've done it a few times on my Edge 500. It usually chirps at me to tell me that I forgot to start/restart it after a cafe stop but I sometimes miss hearing it because of traffic noise.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> It’s why I work


I thought you worked so your taxes would keep my pension going


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

Crackle said:


> Perhaps you were going too slow and it fell asleep.


Assuming you are serious.....nah, as per normal for a potholed Pennine Way.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Hang on... pausing it = stopping it!
> 
> I've done it a few times on my Edge 500. It usually chirps at me to tell me that I forgot to start/restart it after a cafe stop but I sometimes miss hearing it because of traffic noise.


To my knowledge I did not fail to restart it......but as my wife would say, I have been known to be wrong


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I thought you worked so your taxes would keep my pension going


Fook that


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Fook that


You should respect your elders.
I fought the huns for you young whippersnappers


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Aug 2019)

It's a computer, they occasionally crash. It can also be caused by GPS signal jamming in the vicinity.


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> You should respect your elders.
> I fought the huns for you young whippersnappers


You’re not 72 then, more like 92


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## Crackle (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Assuming you are serious.....nah, as per normal for a potholed Pennine Way.


Not serious, Dave. Gentle ribbing.

They do sometimes crash, all of them.


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## Dave7 (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> You’re not 72 then, more like 92


I have had a hard life.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Fook that



The typical middle aged response


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> I have had a hard life.



You were lucky I've had to make my GPS out of two tin cans, a lodestone, and silicon extracted from sand


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## Blue Hills (25 Aug 2019)

Globalti said:


> Throw it away and buy a map. They keep going for ever and they show the entire county at a glance.


the entire county?
A tad parochial?


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## vickster (25 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> The typical middle aged response


I’ll pay for my own old age if I get there


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## cyberknight (25 Aug 2019)

Edge 200 battery is a clip afaik it's the sound that's hard wired,mate put a new battery in mine and didn't rewire the sound as it was too fiddly and now the battery rattles but it hasn't disconnected


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## Blue Hills (25 Aug 2019)

My 3 Etrex20s/20xs (have stocked up as I don't think there is anything better) do this now and again.

I think it's due to either of the two possibilities mentioned upthread - maybe both.

1: Temporary loss of power from battery bounce.
2: Confusion caused by satellite loss when it is navigating a route.

Sometimes it even freezes.

It's not a great problem if that happens.

And it is not common.

I just stop awhile (and can snack to avoid bonk issues) and briefly unconnect a battery and reboot.

Compared to the problems I have read about on other units, often far far more expensive, it's nothing to worry about.

All the Etrex 20 needs is a faster processor and a slightly bigger screen.

But instead of doing that, Garmin may well discontinue it for folks who need the latest thing.

I'll wave them off into the distance.


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## cyberknight (25 Aug 2019)

TBH my 200 apart from shortened battery life never missed a beat and still use it to commute,left it on the bike at work accidentally and no one's nicked it


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## Sharky (25 Aug 2019)

My 200 occasionally goes into auto pause on one of our local hills. Must be going so slowly, it thinks I've stopped.


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## Milzy (25 Aug 2019)

Because it’s not a Wahoo device.


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## ColinJ (25 Aug 2019)

cyberknight said:


> Edge 200 battery is a clip afaik it's the sound that's hard wired,mate put a new battery in mine and didn't rewire the sound as it was too fiddly and now the battery rattles but it hasn't disconnected


You are right. I just found a video on YouTube showing how to do it. The little speaker only needs a couple of wires connecting - not difficult when you have the thing in pieces anyway. Mind you, I was building and repairing electronic devices for nearly 20 years so it would be easy compared to many of the things I tackled.

I suppose it would be possible that the battery connector hadn't quite been pushed on properly and became intermittent.


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## cyberknight (26 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> You are right. I just found a video on YouTube showing how to do it. The little speaker only needs a couple of wires connecting - not difficult when you have the thing in pieces anyway. Mind you, I was building and repairing electronic devices for nearly 20 years so it would be easy compared to many of the things I tackled.
> 
> I suppose it would be possible that the battery connector hadn't quite been pushed on properly and became intermittent.


Im going to order a new battery for my 800 with tools so i might have a look at the 200 myself, i do need to sell a few as i now have 4 !


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## I like Skol (26 Aug 2019)

My Garmin Edge Touring switches off occasionally and I have a theory.

It has happened twice near Manchester airport and at other places, where with hindsight I think I may have been riding past mobile phone masts or similar equipment. My theory is that there is either an anti-terrorism jamming signal in use near certain key military and civilian installations to help prevent accurate attack, or these type of sites emit a signal of some sort that at close quarters is so intense that it overpowers the Garmin's circuitry and causes it to shut down to prevent damage. Mountain biking and bumpy cobbled roads have never caused a shut-down so I don't buy the poor battery connection idea.

EDIT: I also think the reason the shutdown doesn't happen everytime at the same location is because the use of a jamming signal is linked to intelligence information about periods of heightened risk!!! I'll get my foil hat......


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## Pale Rider (26 Aug 2019)

My Edge Touring acts up in various intermittent ways.

It once decided I was in Austria, despite actually being in a County Durham pit village.

Its latest trick is to stop working with the laptop - I wonder if it doesn't really like Macs.

Overall, it's next to useless, but I'm not convinced the handful of competitors would be any better.


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## Blue Hills (26 Aug 2019)

I like Skol said:


> My Garmin Edge Touring switches off occasionally and I have a theory.
> 
> It has happened twice near Manchester airport and at other places, where with hindsight I think I may have been riding past mobile phone masts or similar equipment. My theory is that there is either an anti-terrorism jamming signal in use near certain key military and civilian installations to help prevent accurate attack, or these type of sites emit a signal of some sort that at close quarters is so intense that it overpowers the Garmin's circuitry and causes it to shut down to prevent damage. Mountain biking and bumpy cobbled roads have never caused a shut-down so I don't buy the poor battery connection idea.
> 
> EDIT: I also think the reason the shutdown doesn't happen everytime at the same location is because the use of a jamming signal is linked to intelligence information about periods of heightened risk!!! I'll get my foil hat......


Have come across such theories before.
Does it commonly switch off in any other places?
Suppose you could set up a web site where folk could log such things and see if a pattern emerged.
But you might get a visit.


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## Blue Hills (26 Aug 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> My Edge Touring acts up in various intermittent ways.
> 
> It once decided I was in Austria, despite actually being in a County Durham pit village.
> 
> ...


Keep it simple pale rider, get an etrex20/x
You no more need a gps with a "touring" brand sold at a premium than you need rapha touring shorts.


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## iateyoubutler (26 Aug 2019)

I`ve got an edge 500, on the whole it`s been a good workhorse, but not without it`s bugs. Even from new it`s taken a good 15 mins to get a satellite signal - that I can live with. On a good number of occasions it just comes up "working" and stays like that for an hour or so, refusing to do anything else, and on a handful of rides it`s got it knickers in a twist mid ride, then when I`ve uploaded the route afterwards it thinks I`ve been at the other end of the country - with an average speed of 600-700mph


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## SkipdiverJohn (26 Aug 2019)

Garmin just appear to produce cranky electronics with mediocre on the fly navigation. I was using a Garmin car sat nav the other day that suddenly stopped following the route I was taking and told me I was doing 52 mph and was 18 miles away from my destination, for about five minutes regardless of my actual speed. Then it suddenly started working properly again as suddenly as it had stopped. This was on a clear day with no tree cover so there should have been no issues with satellite availability. I also find it slow to re-route on the move if you ignore the planned route it wants you to use - which often isn't the quickest or most logical one either. Compared to say, TomToms, they are definitely inferior, and I would not buy any of their stuff for cycling navigation!


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## ColinJ (26 Aug 2019)

They are infuriatingly inconsistent with their products! I have been using a very early Garmin Etrex for 13 years and it has been extremely reliable, except for 2 things - (1) The bouncing battery problem. Once I did my Blu Tack bodge, that problem went away. (2) One which has caught me out a couple of times - switching the device on indoors. It isn't sensitive enough to pick up the satellite signals and gets confused. After that it can take tens of minutes to come to life. The answer to that is for me to wait until I leave the house before switching the device on. Once it has locked onto the satellites, it is fine.

My Edge 500, however, is almost entirely useless for navigation. I have tried everything - every version of firmware available; more waypoints per route; fewer waypoints per route; spreading waypoints equally through routes; breaking up routes into shorter segments. I could probably just about use it if I loaded a separate, carefully tweaked file for every hour of riding. Blow that!


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## Dogtrousers (26 Aug 2019)

Last year, on two Friday Night Rides, my Garmin Oregon switched itself off on Cornwall road at about 00:10. Same time, same place

The Oregon isn't one of those flakey bike specific units. It's a rock solid outdoor device and the only times, apart from this, that it has turned off have been big pothole shocks.

Same time ... Same place ... Cue twilight zone music.

Boringly it hasn't done it since, despite riding down the same road at the same time several times.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Aug 2019)

Several riders on an Audax I was on experienced their Garmins switching off by a barracks near Salisbury. A neighbour who was in the forces said this might be normal but was very cagey as to why/how. 

My Wahoo was fine.


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## nickyboy (26 Aug 2019)

Crackle said:


> Perhaps you were going too slow and it fell asleep.


Aka "the bleep of death"

Used to get it a lot on steep climbs so I've changed the autopause metrics and now it feels like I'm faster


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## Crackle (26 Aug 2019)

nickyboy said:


> Aka "the bleep of death"
> 
> Used to get it a lot on steep climbs so I've changed the autopause metrics and now it feels like I'm faster


Solved by a speed sensor and now I don't have to yell, "I'm still moving!"


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## Blue Hills (26 Aug 2019)

Remembered this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Trimingham

Read down to "controversy".

I have cycled past it - can't remember if anything happened to the garmin.

Haven't developed any super powers yet.


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## steveindenmark (27 Aug 2019)

Because it's a Garmin and not a Wahoo.


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## Blue Hills (27 Aug 2019)

I like your posts Steve but that one and some time on here and another place does I am afraid rather give me the idea that Wahoo owners have signed up to some particularly boring cult.

The first rule of which is to chant wahoo wahoo at the very mention of the term gps.


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## Pale Rider (27 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Keep it simple pale rider, get an etrex20/x
> You no more need a gps with a "touring" brand sold at a premium than you need rapha touring shorts.



I like the idea of following me on a colour map, preferably an OS Landranger.

Gadgets that do that, including national coverage of Landranger maps, cost about £400.

If I thought such a device would work in a seamless manner I might be tempted.

This OS branded sale bundle at £299 looked promising, but it's out of stock.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/gps/cycling/os-trail-bike-gps.html


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## ColinJ (27 Aug 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> I like the idea of following me on a colour map, preferably an OS Landranger.
> 
> Gadgets that do that, including national coverage of Landranger maps, cost about £400.
> 
> ...


Memory Map have just released the OS Landranger map of GB for £50 (download version). It comes with a licence for 5 devices so I have it on 2 phones, 2 laptops and 1 tablet. (Only legal to use one at a time, so you should NOT hand map-enabled devices out to other people!)

Dedicated GPS devices are a better bet than phones for use on the bike, but it might be a low cost option to use MM on a phone? (If you don't have a suitable phone then I'm sure you could find something on eBay for less than £50.)

My main phone isn't bright enough to use in sunlight but I think this tiny old one _might _be...






I am toying with carrying it to use alongside my main GPS. I have stuck velcro to the back of it and am making a little bar mount to attach it to. I'd need to use a battery pack with it and I'd have to put it in a transparent waterproof enclosure if there was any chance of rain.


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## Blue Hills (27 Aug 2019)

You do have a map on the 20x pale rider.

It's an open streetmap for free I use openfietsmap which is updated once a year but others are more frequent.

I'm a great fan of OS mapping but in truth on a bar mounted GPS I much much prefer one of the openstreetmap flavours.

Covers as much as of the world as you might want for free. And gets better all the time.

Graphically far clearer than OS on a bar-mounted GPS I think.

The Etrex 20x with opensteetmaps IS essentially seamless/trouble free.


The odd switch off is no problem - hell there's far worse techstuff and I imagine many many folks type into this forum on wobbly tech.

edit - here you are pale rider.

http://www.openfietsmap.nl/

Been using it for years all over the place.

Other Openstreetmaps available.

And my excellent OSMandplus on the android tab (works offline) is an ideal companion and also uses a variant of openstreetmaps.


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## Dogtrousers (27 Aug 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> I like the idea of following me on a colour map, preferably an OS Landranger.
> 
> Gadgets that do that, including national coverage of Landranger maps, cost about £400.
> 
> ...


I have a Garmin Oregon with OS mapping. It's very nice. I just checked and you are right they cost about £400 now.

The OS maps are - IMO - better than the OSM ones but you have to pay. (I'm the opposite of @Blue Hills on that point)

Not sure what you mean by "seamless".


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## ColinJ (27 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> I have a Garmin Oregon with OS mapping. It's very nice. I just checked and you are right they cost about £400 now.
> 
> The OS maps are - IMO - better than the OSM ones but you have to pay. (I'm the opposite of @Blue Hills on that point)
> 
> *Not sure what you mean by "seamless*".


I do like paper OS maps, but one of things that I like about my digital OS maps is that they literally are 'seamless' - no having to switch between separate maps. I used to live in Hebden Bridge, which is towards corners of 4 Landranger maps. I can just keep scrolling my digital map until I come to the fringes of the British Isles. I'm not sure why NI doesn't feature though? Ah, here is the reason ...



Wikipedia article said:


> The Ordnance Surveys of Northern Ireland, Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland share a common heritage: the British Ordnance Survey (OS) ceased to map Ireland just before the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922 (the Partition of Ireland having already taken place in May 1921 with the creation of Northern Ireland). The new Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland (OSNI) officially came into existence on 1 January 1922, while the new Ordnance Survey of Ireland (OSI) came into being slightly later, on 1 April 1922.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Because it's a Garmin and not a Wahoo.





Blue Hills said:


> I like your posts Steve but that one and some time on here and another place does I am afraid rather give me the idea that Wahoo owners have signed up to some particularly boring cult.
> 
> The first rule of which is to chant wahoo wahoo at the very mention of the term gps.



I’m in. I love the idea of being in a cult. Do we sacrifice Garmin owners every full moon? And do they have to be virgins? Lots of them are you know.


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## steveindenmark (28 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> I like your posts Steve but that one and some time on here and another place does I am afraid rather give me the idea that Wahoo owners have signed up to some particularly boring cult.
> 
> The first rule of which is to chant wahoo wahoo at the very mention of the term gps.



I have 3 garmins in my draw. There is a reason I joined the Wahoo Cult.


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## mangid (28 Aug 2019)

I had a Garmin 810 which would do that, one of the posts for the screws had a crack in it, and some dampness had got in. It might be worth taking it apart and checking for corrosion on the board. I scrapped the corrosion away, put grease in the posts, and taped over the screw holes. Once reassembled, it mostly behaved after that, but would still have bad periods.

The crack might have come about form the unit being dropped, or maybe it was always there.

Bit of a glutton for punishment. I'm on my 3rd Garmin now, an 830. The last one, a 1000, simply disintegrated and the battery was lasting maybe 5 hours (not even a full ride).


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## Racing roadkill (28 Aug 2019)

I have and edge touring, which I don’t use for many rides anymore. It was forever turning off for no discernible reason, part way through a ride. Nine times out of ten, that would lead to a corrupted ride file, and it wouldn’t then sync / download the ride. The Edge 1030 that I use most of the time now, hasn’t yet let me down. Sometimes the flakeyness of the edge touring, was due to the internal battery getting jolted, but not always. Sometimes there was no rhyme or reason for it.


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## Blue Hills (28 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I have 3 garmins in my draw. There is a reason I joined the Wahoo Cult.


Can I ask which these 3 are and what the problems were?
Do they have built-in batteries?


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## steveindenmark (28 Aug 2019)

Garmin?? Old and cannot recall the last time I used it.

Garmin Touring. It will get you where you want to go. But there are far better routes than it selects. Freezes when it wants to, good at losing GPS signal. Especially in narrow streets with high buildings either side

Garmin Etrex30X Battery operated, heavy, same route problem and faults as Garmin Touring.

Wahoo Bolt. Load the route and it never fails.


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## Milkfloat (28 Aug 2019)

Just to burst @steveindenmark 's bubble Wahoo have not exactly had it plain sailing after shopping shipments of the Roam a few months ago and who can forget the very expensive KICKR debacle. Being a fan-boy is great, but be careful you don't get bitten.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Garmin Etrex30X Battery operated, heavy, same route problem and faults as Garmin Touring.


They are indeed heavy. So, so heavy. It's those very heavy AA batteries that do it. It makes a tremendous difference.


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## ColinJ (28 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> They are indeed heavy. So, so heavy. It's those very heavy AA batteries that do it. It makes a tremendous difference.


Ha ha. 

As for the GPS choosing dodgy routes... Why let a machine tell you where to ride? Just take a look at a map, plot the route for yourself, and upload that. As long as the GPS can follow that reliably, fine. OTOH, if the device keeps crashing or losing track of where it is, then that is bad news. THIS might help?


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## Venod (28 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Its a fairly basic model (200 edge?).
> It was on approx 50% charge when at 12 miles it beeped and switched off. I immediately re-started it and was able to "resume" my ride.
> The whole ride was 28 miles and it behaved the remainder of the way.
> Its never done it before and never given me any problems.
> Any ideas why it would do that ?



I'm a bit late to this thread but I had a mystifying problem with my 520, it would turn off after about 3 miles, I then turned it on again and it would be fine for the rest of the ride, I cured it with a factorty reset and its being fine since.


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## Dogtrousers (28 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Ha ha.
> 
> As for the GPS choosing dodgy routes... _*Why let a machine tell you where to ride?*_ Just take a look at a map, plot the route for yourself, and upload that. As long as the GPS can follow that reliably, fine. OTOH, if the device keeps crashing or losing track of where it is, then that is bad news. THIS might help?



Actually this is a really important point and I think it's possibly why I just don't appreciate why other people get so frustrated.

Some people do want on-the-fly routing and turn by turn prompts. Because I don't want and never use these things I just don't appreciate their issues. Maybe that's why - for example - I never had any issues with my Garmin Touring, but other people end up tearing their hair out. I just never used the features that happen to be dodgy.


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## Dave7 (28 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Actually this is a really important point and I think it's possibly why I just don't appreciate why other people get so frustrated.
> 
> Some people do want on-the-fly routing and turn by turn prompts. Because I don't want and never use these things I just don't appreciate their issues. Maybe that's why - for example - I never had any issues with my Garmin Touring, but other people end up tearing their hair out. I just never used the features that happen to be dodgy.


Dont know if I said this earlier. I agree with you.
I use mine purely for distance and time etc. I have also used it when kyaking or hill/coastal walking to get accurate records of distance.


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## ColinJ (28 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Actually this is a really important point and I think it's possibly why I just don't appreciate why other people get so frustrated.
> 
> Some people do want on-the-fly routing and turn by turn prompts. Because I don't want and never use these things I just don't appreciate their issues. Maybe that's why - for example - I never had any issues with my Garmin Touring, but other people end up tearing their hair out. I just never used the features that happen to be dodgy.


Interesting... @Littgull has a Garmin Touring device which _DID _make him tear his hair out so he bought a replacement (Garmin!) device which he is happier with. He offered to let me borrow the Touring GPS when my old Etrex was playing up. I discovered that the problem was that I had started turning the Etrex on before leaving the house and it got confused when it couldn't lock on to any satellites. The Etrex is now switched on _OUTSIDE _the house and is working properly again so I don't _NEED _to borrow Littgull's device, but it might be interesting to see if I could get it to work reliably. (Brian would be the first to admit that his tech skills are somewhat lacking... )


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## bigjim (28 Aug 2019)

My etrex always did it and I tried all sorts of fixes. Cured the problem by wrapping an elastic band or preferably a hair bobble around the mount where it is attached to the unit. It must cure the vibration and rocking on the mount. Never a problem since.


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## Littgull (28 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Interesting... @Littgull has a Garmin Touring device which _DID _make him tear his hair out so he bought a replacement (Garmin!) device which he is happier with. He offered to let me borrow the Touring GPS when my old Etrex was playing up. I discovered that the problem was that I had started turning the Etrex on before leaving the house and it got confused when it couldn't lock on to any satellites. The Etrex is now switched on _OUTSIDE _the house and is working properly again so I don't _NEED _to borrow Littgull's device, but it might be interesting to see if I could get it to work reliably. (Brian would be the first to admit that his tech skills are somewhat lacking... )


 Ha ha, yes there is definitely a lack of teccy skills factor which have contributed to my Garmin woes.
As Colin mentioned my Garmin Tour was absolutely exasperating. That too, occasionally switched off mid ride for no apparent reason as well as unilaterally deciding to recalculate and alter a pre loaded route even when I hadn't strayed off course! . So far my 'new' Garmin Explore has behaved faultlessly in respect of following pre-loaded routes which meets my main priority. However, it does grossly under-record the amount of ascent for each ride. 
I do also have a Garmin 200 which I acquired for free from my son when he purchased another Garmin. That is generally very reliable. I also had a 200 several years ago as my first GPS device. That one 'bit the dust' as the connection port became damaged but it worked well up until then. I don't think it ever switched off mid ride. I now take both Garmins when I am riding a day long pre loaded route just to have a back up - such is my lack of 100 %faith in Garmins!

One thing I would say, is that despite the inconsistencies of Garmins or any other make of GPS device, I cannot understand how any cyclist who regularly rides long unfamiliar routes would prefer to use paper maps or typed/hand written cue sheets. What a hassle having to rig up an unwieldy map/route sheet holder on the bike to refer to or even worse to have to keep getting route details out of your pocket. I can see the merit in taking them as a back up though.


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## the_mikey (28 Aug 2019)

I bought a 2nd hand Edge 200 with evident battery problems, but I did strip it down, removed and reinstalled the battery, ensuring the connections are securely reinstalled and it has worked fine since, so it's likely that battery problems could be caused by a poor connection somewhere. But also, don't disregard human error, sometimes it looks like it has just turned off when it has really been paused for too long and the timeout timer has triggered a shutdown.


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## Blue Hills (28 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Garmin?? Old and cannot recall the last time I used it.
> 
> Garmin Touring. It will get you where you want to go. But there are far better routes than it selects. Freezes when it wants to, good at losing GPS signal. Especially in narrow streets with high buildings either side
> 
> ...


Thanks for the polite reply steve but am afraid that you have confirmed that you have been captured by the cult, for you are clearly judging the garmin and wahoo by different standards.
You say you don't like the garmin's on the fly routing but that the wahoo performs faultlessly once it is told a route. Hardly an equal test.
I have ridden for 18 hours faultlessly with a garmin working from a route I had given it. I only use its inbuilt routeing on short hops round london and on diverts to stuff off a main route, maybe 20 or so miles or km, possibly less.
The Touring I gather has problems. The etrex 20/30 are fine and the occasional freeze is no great problem. The fact that you can briefly disconnect the removable AAs actually helps sort issues.
Heavy? 
Mm - not going to kill me, and I instinctively mistrust any cycling componentry sold on weight.


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Thanks for the polite reply steve but am afraid that you have confirmed that you have been captured by the cult, for you are clearly judging the garmin and wahoo by different standards.
> You say you don't like the garmin's on the fly routing but that the





Dogtrousers said:


> They are indee



I judge all GPS units by the same standard. Do they work and can you be confident that they will work 100% of the time. I have had years of experience with Garmin and they dont instill confidence. I have had the Wahoo Bolt for 2 years and it doesnt go wrong. It really is that simple. I have used it in forests in Germany, out in the wilderness of Bulgaria and in narrow streets in Sienna with 5 storeys either side and the Bolt just works. I can load a 300km route in seconds and it just works without fail every time. 

Routing on the fly, I use Komoot. Plan it at the side of the road and send it over to the Bolt and it works every time.



Milkfloat said:


> Just to burst @steveindenmark 's bubble Wahoo have not exactly had it plain sailing after shopping shipments of the Roam a few months ago and who can forget the very expensive KICKR debacle. Being a fan-boy is great, but be careful you don't get bitten.



The Roams problem is in its re-routing. Its why I will not get one. Hopefully Roam 2 will come out and have that sorted. Its problems has not been a secret from the start.



Dogtrousers said:


> They are indeed heavy. So, so heavy. It's those very heavy AA batteries that do it. It makes a tremendous difference.



That is the problem. But they are regarded as the most reliable Garmin. I accepted the heavier weight for the reliability.

My opinion is that Garmin were the only real contenders in the bike GPS field for years and became lazy and just released units without solving the real issues. Hopefully, they will now start sorting those problems out now that Wahoo has taken a big chunk of their profits.


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## Blue Hills (29 Aug 2019)

They could certainly boost the speed of the processor in the etrex 20/30x series.
Unless I am mistaken, the wahoo bolt, diminuitive featherweight thing that it is, has no onscreen map?


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## Dogtrousers (29 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> That is the problem. But they are regarded as the most reliable Garmin. I accepted the heavier weight for the reliability.


An Etrex weighs 140g. Bike specific GPS units units come in at around 60g or thereabouts up to about 100g. Do you really consider an 80g difference a _problem_?

This from someone who recommends Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres that weigh the best part of a kilo each to someone struggling for speed.

I think your brand loyalties are getting the better of you.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> They could certainly boost the speed of the processor in the etrex 20/30x series.
> Unless I am mistaken, the wahoo bolt, diminuitive featherweight thing that it is, has no onscreen map?


It does. From https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/wahoo-elemnt-bolt-in-depth-review.html






I've got the larger Elemnt, I find the maps really hard to follow, seems to be constantly upside down despite fiddling with the settings. So I've not used much and did prefer the format of the Garmin maps. Probably just me needing to get used to the different style

I've had problems with it not starting properly or freezing occasionally too. My 800 wasn't problematic other than connecting to a laptop. I changed because I wanted something a bit bigger, with Bluetooth upload and download and it was cheaper than the 1000 series Garmin. If it dies or I fancy a change, I'd probably go back to a 1000 series Garmin if cost wasn't too ridiculous


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> An Etrex weighs 140g. Bike specific GPS units units come in at around 60g or thereabouts up to about 100g. Do you really consider an 80g difference a _problem_?
> 
> This from someone who recommends Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres that weigh the best part of a kilo each to someone struggling for speed.
> 
> I think your brand loyalties are getting the better of you.



Having spent years of several models of Garmins going wrong on a regular basis to fonding a Wahoo Bolt that never goes wrong. Its not about brand loyalty. I dont care if Kellogs make it. It is all about using a unit that you can have confidence in all the time. I doubt if there is a Garmin user on here who has not had problems with their unit, turning off or not loading . I dont have those problems with the Wahoo. Its the only reason I use it.

As for the tyres. I thought the OP wanted puncture proof tyres and that is why I suggested Marathon Plus. I dont use them but have in the past and know that they are bomb proof.


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> It does. From https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/wahoo-elemnt-bolt-in-depth-review.html
> View attachment 482418
> 
> 
> ...



In reality you could quite easily cover the map up and navigate perfectly well just using the Leds and beeps from the unit.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> In reality you could quite easily cover the map up and navigate perfectly well just using the Leds and beeps from the unit.


Maybe if there aren’t many turnings or crossroads. I usually need navigation in built up areas too


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Maybe if there aren’t many turnings or crossroads. I usually need navigation in built up areas too


Well it worked for me in places like Sienna and Florence and there are lots of turnings and little alleys there. You just need to be familiar with how the unit operates. I have the Bolt which is smaller than the Elemnt but I still have no problem following the map. If you take a wrong turn all the flashing lights and beeps go off in a few metres to let you know.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Well it worked for me in places like Sienna and Florence and there are lots of turnings and little alleys there. You just need to be familiar with how the unit operates. I have the Bolt which is smaller than the Elemnt but I still have no problem following the map. If you take a wrong turn all the flashing lights and beeps go off in a few metres to let you know.


Yes but it doesn’t tell you where you should have gone very clearly. I’m not very good with the arrows and sketchy map. This is likely the way my brain (doesn’t) work not the unit. The on the fly isn’t great either. Tried to send me down a muddy hidden bridle path when I’d asked for road instructions (there were no other turnings)


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Yes but it doesn’t tell you where you should have gone very clearly. I’m not very good with the arrows and sketchy map. This is likely the way my brain (doesn’t) work not the unit. The on the fly isn’t great either. Tried to send me down a muddy hidden bridle path when I’d asked for road instructions (there were no other turnings)


I think it is something you need to practice to get right. It took me a short time to get the hang of it, but it is second nature now. 

I use Komoot on the fly and you are right, it can lead you along some paths that are not really suitable. Having said that it has not sent me along a path that I cannot ride with 28C tyres quite easily.

A friend of mine used komoot to plan a route from his house in Holland to my house in Denmark. It was 400+km and downloaded within seconds. He said in the entire journey there was about 1km he would not have chosen to ride. But was quite rideable.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I think it is something you need to practice to get right. It took me a short time to get the hang of it, but it is second nature now.


That’s all well and good but Garmins are more intuitive if just wanting directions from a-b so that is for me a weakness of the Wahoo. My brain doesn’t really do route planning, I have to rely on others for that


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> That’s all well and good but Garmins are more intuitive if just wanting directions from a-b so that is for me a weakness of the Wahoo. My brain doesn’t really do route planning, I have to rely on others for that



This is what Wahoo Roam is supposed to sort out, but doesnt. Maybe the next version.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> This is what Wahoo Roam is supposed to sort out, but doesnt. Maybe the next version.


I'm not changing again, if I do it'll be for a Garmin with pretty coloured maps 

I rarely ride anywhere on my own that I'm not familiar with nowadays anyhow so it's not much of an issue. Just saying that the Wahoo is not perfection (and the OP may not want to spend £200 on one). I record all my rides on 2 devices so if one crashes, I still have a record


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## Mo1959 (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I'm not changing again, if I do it'll be for a Garmin with pretty coloured maps


Haven’t used it for serious navigation yet, but I am really pleased with the Edge 830. It’s getting closer to a car satnav. I.e. You can type a town in and it will navigate a route there.


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> Haven’t used it for serious navigation yet, but I am really pleased with the Edge 830. It’s getting closer to a car satnav. I.e. You can type a town in and it will navigate a route there.


My 800 was similar. Assume it uploads directly to Strava when on wifi?


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## ColinJ (29 Aug 2019)

bigjim said:


> My etrex always did it and I tried all sorts of fixes. Cured the problem by wrapping an elastic band or preferably a hair bobble around the mount where it is attached to the unit. It must cure the vibration and rocking on the mount. Never a problem since.


Oh, I forgot - the other fix I did was to stick a strip of duct tape on the inside of the Etrex mount where the base of the GPS rests. The Etrex always rattled on bumpy roads, which didn't help reliability, and was also extremely irritating. The securely mounted Etrex is quiet _AND_ reliable!


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## Mo1959 (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> My 800 was similar. Assume it uploads directly to Strava when on wifi?


Yes. Usually uploaded before I even put the bike in the shed. Very quick.


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## Dogtrousers (29 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Oh, I forgot - the other fix I did was to stick a strip of duct tape on the inside of the Etrex mount where the base of the GPS rests. The Etrex always rattled on bumpy roads, which didn't help reliability, and was also extremely irritating. The securely mounted Etrex is quiet _AND_ reliable!


My Oregon uses the same style mount as an Etrex. And I too have stuck duc[k|t] tape on it.


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## Dogtrousers (29 Aug 2019)

Mo1959 said:


> Yes. Usually uploaded before I even put the bike in the shed. Very quick.


I remember the first time that happened with my Oregon. I got a push notification "your ride is ready to view". I was gobsmacked. I was unaware it could do that. I'd only paired my phone with it so I could get text and call notifications.


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## ColinJ (29 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I've got the larger Elemnt, I find the maps really hard to follow, seems to be constantly upside down despite fiddling with the settings.


I could mentally flip a map but I wouldn't want to have to when negotiating junctions in traffic. My Etrex doesn't have maps but I always have it set to auto-rotate so I am riding 'up the screen'. I just read a review of the Bolt and it said that there was a similar option to get the maps to auto-rotate. Doesn't its big brother (sister? ) do the same thing?

PS I just found this firmware update page and there is a mention of a fix for a bug which stopped auto-rotate working at different zoom levels. It is also obvious from that page that Wahoo devices have plenty of problems initially, but perhaps they are better at fixing them than Garmin are at fixing theirs?


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## vickster (29 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I could mentally flip a map but I wouldn't want to have to when negotiating junctions in traffic. My Etrex doesn't have maps but I always have it set to auto-rotate so I am riding 'up the screen'. I just read a review of the Bolt and it said that there was a similar option to get the maps to auto-rotate. Doesn't its big brother (sister? ) do the same thing?
> 
> PS I just found this firmware update page and there is a mention of a fix for a bug which stopped auto-rotate working at different zoom levels. It is also obvious from that page that Wahoo devices have plenty of problems initially, but perhaps they are better at fixing them than Garmin are at fixing theirs?


Possibly it does. I can’t recall. (Mapping) gadgets often don’t really compute with me, so needs to be simple (I’m limited in sense of direction and very poor at visualising space/locations....I can even struggle following directions on my phone  )


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## geocycle (29 Aug 2019)

I used a Garmin edge touring for a few years and have also had a 200. The GET was fine as long as you didn’t rely on its routing. I was also riding longer rides than it’s battery would allow so needed to move on. I’ve had a wahoo element bolt for the last year. It’s a fantastic piece of kit and has worked perfectly for me. I’d completely recommend it to most users. I hear the new Garmins eg 830s and 1030s are good but are at a different price point to the element. Conversely the element roam seems to have issues according to reviews. So, I think we need model v model comparison rather than Garmin v Wahoo.


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## shirokazan (29 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> [...] other fix I did was to stick a strip of duct tape on the inside of the Etrex mount [...]





Dogtrousers said:


> [...]And I too have stuck duc[k|t] tape on it.



Medical tape. I was on tour at the time when the irritating rattle of my eTrex in its mount finally got to me, and medical tape was all I had available. Never got around to upgrading it!


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## Phaeton (30 Aug 2019)

My Edge 800 has errored twice in the last 3 weeks after 6 years of faultless use, it just stops registering the distance, the other functions speed, cadence, time etc. keep working but the distance doesn't increase then after a period of time it displays an Auto Power off message. Can't remember any incident 3 weeks ago but last night it happened when I hit a wood step hidden in undergrowth & stopped dead & nearly when over the handlebars, but didn't notice for the next 4 miles. Going to see if there is a factory reset function.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Aug 2019)

You can have an option on the Wahoo Elemnt for the route to always appear in front of you. In other words it autorotates. Or you can set it so the map’s northings are always at the top of the device. 

Our brains work differently. I can look at an OS map with contour lines and ‘see’ the topography of the land. When I played golf I could ‘see’ the line of travel the ball would take to the hole on a putting green. I can also ‘see’ shapes and lines when I am doing topiary and hedge work.

I am obviously some sort of wizard and my talents have been wasted for 45 years. Time for a career change. Move over Harry Potter.


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## Phaeton (30 Aug 2019)

Should my 800 decide to go AWOL again it will be retired, what are the replacement options, I do not want a unit that does mapping, it's a complete waste of time imho, the screen is too small for me to see whilst riding. I just want a unit that has GPS, to log the ride, speed, cadence, HR would be nice but not essential (as I rarely bother wearing it), elevation,


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## Blue Hills (30 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> It does. From https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/wahoo-elemnt-bolt-in-depth-review.html
> View attachment 482418
> 
> 
> ...


Cripes - that's the map?
Would be OK if it was leading you on a track across a desert.
I like way more detail than that, access to all openstreetmaps stuff, POIs etc - often when paused on a long ride I will check the Garmin to see if those wonderful OSM folk have logged any nearby interesting historical or odd stuff - it's amazing the stuff you discover that you would otherwise ride straight past.
And what's wrong with colour?

You can also very easily see cycle routes highlighted in colour which means that if you want to use them a lot (I only do moderately) you don't even need any signs - particularly useful in places/countries where the routes are somewhat theoretical/the budget hasn't quite stretched to signage. 
Very easy to put your own POIs in - amongst other stuff mine has all the spoons in the country.


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## vickster (30 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> And what's wrong with colour?


I think the b&w works better in bright light maybe but you’d need to ask Wahoo


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## Blue Hills (30 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> I think the b&w works better in bright light maybe but you’d need to ask Wahoo


ta for the reply vickster but I'll pass on asking them - from some of the posts I see on the matter I think it might involve sitting crosslegged, closing my eyes, and humming to heaven for the mighty word to descend.


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## ColinJ (30 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Cripes - that's the map?
> Would be OK if it was leading you on a track across a desert.
> I like way more detail than that, access to all openstreetmaps stuff, POIs etc - often when paused on a long ride I will check the Garmin to see if those wonderful OSM folk have logged any nearby interesting historical or odd stuff - it's amazing the stuff you discover that you would otherwise ride straight past.
> And what's wrong with colour?


I have been happily navigating for 13 years without any map at all, just following a grey line on a blank screen, so that Wahoo map would seem the height of luxury for me!

What's wrong with colour is that colour screens tend to use much more battery power and be much harder to read in bright sunlight. 

I have a more sophisticated version of the old Etrex which has the OSM map of GB and a colour screen. I gave up on it after one sunny ride when I was having to stop, take off my sunglasses and shade the screen with my hands to be able to read it.


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## Blue Hills (30 Aug 2019)

I realise it's possible Colin but I wouldn't want to - I like to know what's around me.

The battery power isn't a great issue on the etrex as it's, er, heavier, has quite a substantial battery - easily switched over so I always run its batteries to the bottom before replacing.

Yes very bright sunlight can be an issue but the display can be adjusted - it's not a critical issue I find.

(especially in y/our parts  )


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Aug 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> You can have an option on the Wahoo Elemnt for the route to always appear in front of you. In other words it autorotates. Or you can set it so the map’s northings are always at the top of the device.
> 
> Our brains work differently. I can look at an OS map with contour lines and ‘see’ the topography of the land. When I played golf I could ‘see’ the line of travel the ball would take to the hole on a putting green. I can also ‘see’ shapes and lines when I am doing topiary and hedge work.
> 
> I am obviously some sort of wizard and my talents have been wasted for 45 years. Time for a career change. Move over Harry Potter.



Ah but then you'll get sorry mate I didn't see you in your invisibility cloak....


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## the_mikey (30 Aug 2019)

I struggle with my Wahoo Elemnt, I need to get some firmware updates but they never download, I believe the security on my router is making it difficult but I don't have the will to try to figure it out..


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## ColinJ (30 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> I realise it's possible Colin but I wouldn't want to - I like to know what's around me.


A few times I have had people ask where we are on one of my forum rides. If it isn't somewhere that I have ridden lots of times before I often don't have a clue! It depends how long it is since I plotted the route and how many times I have checked it. If it was planned more than a month before the ride then I forget the details.

I have thought about keeping my tiny old Xperia Ray phone handy so I can quickly check...









Blue Hills said:


> The battery power isn't a great issue on the etrex as it's, er, heavier, has quite a substantial battery - easily switched over so I always run its batteries to the bottom before replacing.


Yes, not a problem with replaceable AA batteries. I have seen lots of people resorting to connecting external battery packs for more recent Garmin devices which have fixed batteries.



Blue Hills said:


> Yes very bright sunlight can be an issue but the display can be adjusted - it's not a critical issue I find.
> 
> (especially in y/our parts  )


Often not, but the day on which I tried using the colour screen Etrex was extremely sunny and I couldn't see what was on its screen.


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## ColinJ (30 Aug 2019)

D'oh - I have already posted that picture in this thread!  (I thought I had got distracted and never completed the post. I did a quick search but didn't find it.)


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## Drago (30 Aug 2019)

Dave7 said:


> Any ideas why it would do that ?



Boredom induced suicide?


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Aug 2019)

Was it vomitting shortly before it shut down?


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## PaulSB (31 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> PS I just found this firmware update page and there is a mention of a fix for a bug which stopped auto-rotate working at different zoom levels. It is also obvious from that page that Wahoo devices have plenty of problems initially, but perhaps they are better at fixing them than Garmin are at fixing theirs?


If you're reaching this conclusion because of the number of updates listed I would advise caution. If there is technical stuff there which backs up your assertion that's obviously a different matter.

I've used a Garmin 810 for five years and my Wahoo Elemnt for 15 months. The Garmin would frequently fail in several different ways, my Wahoo has yet to give me a problem. In my club when chat turns to GPS units the comments revolve around how poorly Garmins behave and how good the Wahoo is. I don't know a single unhappy Wahoo user, I know plenty of Garmin users who cannot rely on their device.

Garmin's problem is twofold; the software has never really been good enough and gets worse with every feature that is added. The second failing is not having recognised the issue and gone back to the drawing board with newer devices.

The difficulty Garmin now faces is personal recommendation from one cyclist to another tends to be "Get a Wahoo, they're brilliant. Garmin will let you down." This is bad news for any company.


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## PaulSB (31 Aug 2019)

vickster said:


> Yes but it doesn’t tell you where you should have gone very clearly. I’m not very good with the arrows and sketchy map. This is likely the way my brain (doesn’t) work not the unit. The on the fly isn’t great either. Tried to send me down a muddy hidden bridle path when I’d asked for road instructions (there were no other turnings)



I can't comment on the Bolt but my Elemnt displays a countdown to the next turn in miles and then feet as I get closer. A blue light flashes to indicate left or right and an arrow next to the street name also shows the direction of turn. If I miss the turn a red light flashes.

I find it hard to imagine what more help a device could give?


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## Blue Hills (31 Aug 2019)

ColinJ said:


> A few times I have had people ask where we are on one of my forum rides. If it isn't somewhere that I have ridden lots of times before I often don't have a clue! It depends how long it is since I plotted the route and how many times I have checked it. If it was planned more than a month before the ride then I forget the details.
> 
> I have thought about keeping my tiny old Xperia Ray phone handy so I can quickly check...
> 
> View attachment 482741


If it's at a stop, you could get out a 7 inch android tab running osmand plus. A fiver for a lifetimes monthly updated maps of anywhere you might want to ride. All works offline. You can superimpose your ride's gpx onto the map. Great for seeing the big picture. Recommended.
If anyone on a ride with me plugs a powerbank into a tiddly built in battery gos I'm afraid they are going to get the
Old, but still telling, joke about the bloke trying to impress a pal with his super tiddly pocketable telly, before sheepishly admitting that it ran off a car battery.
Not a good idea anyway to plug stuff into usb power ports on a bike..


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## PaulSB (31 Aug 2019)

Why on Earth would anyone go on a bike ride carrying a 7" tablet? Quite beyond my comprehension. In a pannier on tour for evening use but on a ride???? It's a bit rich recommending this and then remarking about riders using a powerbank.

I occasionally carry a powerbank if I'm on a very long day, perhaps 3-4 times a year. In the cafe I'd give my device a quick boost.


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## Blue Hills (31 Aug 2019)

Morning paul 
I usually have two small panniers on day rides.
I have been known to take the tab for checking my surroundings when sat behind a church brewing an espresso.
And i often like to stop in a pub with free wifi to innocently check stuff. I do the bare minimum on tiddly snartphone screens.
The issue with plugging a powerbank into a device on the move is that it can screw the input on the device. Usb inputs weren't specced for that sort of use. So then you have a dead unit and more landfill, all for the want of two AAs.
Pannier paul, panniers.
(Off on a ride later today am off to see a film on lsd, an art exhibition, and I will also be packing a chromebook  ) route planning to do over a fine beer or two.
Espresso pot, gas stove and cartridge will be left at home though.
Can't remember if i took the tablet on my day ride with colin over salter fell - possible, though I didn't use it. Definitely had the coffee making gear with me.


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## geocycle (31 Aug 2019)

I’m a bit of a cartophile and love the stories and info you can get from proper maps such as OS. However, I’ve realised that on a bike simple is often better so I went to Garmin with OSM and now Wahoo. I have full OS. Mapping on my phone which gets used in cafe stops.


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## vickster (31 Aug 2019)

PaulSB said:


> I can't comment on the Bolt but my Elemnt displays a countdown to the next turn in miles and then feet as I get closer. A blue light flashes to indicate left or right and an arrow next to the street name also shows the direction of turn. If I miss the turn a red light flashes.
> 
> I find it hard to imagine what more help a device could give?


I have an Elemnt. It’s when using the map screen with the arrows that I find it hard. Maybe I should try with the list of street names. I’ve barely used it as I said


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Aug 2019)

Hate to burst your bubble @PaulSB but I have a friend who is always moaning about his Wahoo. But it's the British condition to moan.


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## Blue Hills (31 Aug 2019)

Just out of interest yukon, what does he say?


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## PaulSB (31 Aug 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Hate to burst your bubble @PaulSB but I have a friend who is always moaning about his Wahoo. But it's the British condition to moan.




I'd also be interested to know his complaints.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Aug 2019)

PaulSB said:


> I'd also be interested to know his complaints.



Well for a start it'd keep taking him off the pre planned track, off down small side roads only to reappear on main road a few miles on. It doesn't load the full route in one go, so he couldn't zoom it, to see where it was taking him and what's coming up. It crashes from time to time, getting itself stuck in a routing loop. You can't change the recording frequency and occasionally it fails to upload to Strava. A few other things, but I lost interest...


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## geocycle (31 Aug 2019)

I’m trying to understand those errors. If I go off a route with the wahoo i just appear off the dotted line on the map and it then flashes once I get back on the planned route. The Garmin did the same but had rerouting ability which was an advantage if very unpredictable. To view the whole route I’d look on the app. I’ve never tried routing with headset only via the app. I’ve had a few occasions where it has lost signal under trees as I did with Garmin. I don’t like the USB port cover and the Garmin mount was better. I’ve had one occasion when it hasn’t uploaded automatically although Strava was down that day. It pairs quite well with the phone so I can see texts and Mrs Geo can follow me, on occasion this drops out, probably because of the phone signal.


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## Blue Hills (31 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I think it is something you need to practice to get right. It took me a short time to get the hang of it, but it is second nature now.
> 
> I use Komoot on the fly and you are right, it can lead you along some paths that are not really suitable. Having said that it has not sent me along a path that I cannot ride with 28C tyres quite easily.
> 
> A friend of mine used komoot to plan a route from his house in Holland to my house in Denmark. It was 400+km and downloaded within seconds. He said in the entire journey there was about 1km he would not have chosen to ride. But was quite rideable.


educate me steve,
Does this komoot/wahoo twinning use the internet at any point to create the routeing that you rate so much?
Polite question.


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## steveindenmark (31 Aug 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> educate me steve,
> Does this komoot/wahoo twinning use the internet at any point to create the routeing that you rate so much?
> Polite question.


Im not here to educate you. Thats what Google is for.


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## Pale Rider (31 Aug 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Im not here to educate you. Thats what Google is for.



Have you tried googling 'apostrophe' or 'shortened form'?


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## steveindenmark (31 Aug 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Have you tried googling 'apostrophe' or 'shortened form'?


Oh dear the self appointed grammar police are on patrol.

Another one for the ignore list. 

Sorry I can't hear you.


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## Blue Hills (2 Sep 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Im not here to educate you. Thats what Google is for.


Sorry about that reply (and initially I think you had two posts, one after the other, telling me to go look at google) as have always valued your posts. I thought cchat was for folk to exchange info and views (latter politely expressed) about cycling stuff.
If the answer is just to google stuff, it may as well shut up shop.
Can only conclude that in fact wahoo is a cult - questions about it are seen as some form of blasphemy.


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## Milkfloat (2 Sep 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> educate me steve,
> Does this komoot/wahoo twinning use the internet at any point to create the routeing that you rate so much?
> Polite question.



Seeing as Steve got out of bed the wrong side - the answer is yes, the internet is required.


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## Phaeton (2 Sep 2019)

There are only 2 rules about Wahoo Club

1. Don't ask about Wahoo Club
2. See Rule 1


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## Dogtrousers (2 Sep 2019)

Phaeton said:


> There are only 2 rules about Wahoo Club
> 
> 1. Don't ask about Wahoo Club
> 2. See Rule 1


Death to Gar-min
Death to Gar-min


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## Phaeton (2 Sep 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Death to Gar-min
> Death to Gar-min


Did you hear that over your tom tom's or were you so wahoo to say it


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## vickster (2 Sep 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> Seeing as Steve got out of bed the wrong side - the answer is yes, the internet is required.


And data / a mobile signal if doing on fly


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## Blue Hills (3 Sep 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> It's a computer, they occasionally crash. It can also be caused by GPS signal jamming in the vicinity.


Agree - the odd crash is not critical as long as nothing is lost. Hardly as if it's crashing on a descent to another planet. I can also see that it might be an issue if you were in some sort of race but races I think are usually marked.

I'd be interested in more info you might have on the GPS "signal jamming" - you mean deliberate jamming or some sort of glitch? Have long had the idea that my Etrex 20 can switch off sometimes if it loses GPS signal contact, particularly if it's navigating a route of its own rather than one of my point to point inputted ones. 

But as I say I don't see it as critical for my purposes. Am quietly confident that my stable of Etrex 20/s will see me out - pretty simple things, I am conservative with updating the software, endless supplies of new rechargeable AA batteries.


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## Venod (3 Sep 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> I'd be interested in more info you might have on the GPS "signal jamming" - you mean deliberate jamming or some sort of glitch?



As stated in my post above mine would turn off after about 3 mile, always in the same vicinity, a country road through a small hamlet, a factory reset cured this, when I think back I can't remember it turning off if I took a different route from home, it dosn't turn off now where it used to, its a bit of a mystery combined with old age and senility.


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## Blue Hills (3 Sep 2019)

If you were running on internal routing, could it have been a routing issue. Maybe solved by your maps having been updated? Mine sometimes decides that it cannot plot a route because it doesn't have the necessary map data.


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## Venod (3 Sep 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> If you were running on internal routing, could it have been a routing issue. Maybe solved by your maps having been updated? Mine sometimes decides that it cannot plot a route because it doesn't have the necessary map data.



No i only use the Garmin for recording.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Sep 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> I'd be interested in more info you might have on the GPS "signal jamming"



Can't say I know a huge amount about it: the GPS satellites broadcast on two frequencies. One is an unencrypted signal intended for civilian use and the other is encrypted and used by the military. The unencrypted one can be "jammed" by broadcasting a rogue signal (from the ground) on the same frequency. Because it is unencrypted the GPS can't tell the difference from a real GPS signal. The rogue signal can be as simple as providing a lot of noise to swamp the GPS signals, or to make the handheld GPS think it is somewhere else, or invalid data that could even crash a unit.

There are reported instances of it being used around military bases, over wider areas during NATO exercises, near airports, near speed cameras and other instances. Note it is only the civilian signal being jammed not the military.

I have had my etrex 20 crash in specific locations on seperate occassions seperated by more than one day. It has crashed no matter which direction I approach from. The locations suggest it might have been a jamming signal. It wasn't mapping as I had no mapping or routing deployed on the unit at the time.

As it is a very rare thing indeed for the Garmin Etrex series to crash I don't worry about it.


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