# New Defender



## Richard A Thackeray (6 Jun 2020)

I saw my first one today
It was on the forecourt of _Guy Salmon - Wakefield_ (A61 Barnsley Road) in Sandal

A big beastie, but far too flash

Doubtless it will sell as a lifestyle vehicle, but unless more basic versions will come later, with a partial 'ladder' chassis, LR seem to be kissing goodbye to traditional customers

This one was on 20" wheels, but at least they have a better sidewall than the usual 'rubber-bands' fitted to Range Rovers


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## neil_merseyside (6 Jun 2020)

Looks like a new mini (or a Move?) that's had an airline up its jacksie, just shout taxi when one goes past - they love it


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## SGG on a bike (6 Jun 2020)

I was a die hard Land Rover man for many years, but sadly, they've lost their way from being rugged utilitarian vehicles and as you say, turned into lifestyle vehicles. Now, I think they're far too expensive for what they are and not really any better for it. For a utilitarian vehicle, there are plenty of very reliable Japanese trucks that are perfectly capable enough off road to do what the Landies of old did. Most don't get used to their full capability and just get used on the odd farm track/byway. I don't know what the towing capacity and payload is on the new Landie, but I strongly suspect it won't be 3 tonnes with a tonne in the back and a train weight of almost 6 tonnes. 

As a Lifestyle 4x4, it's ok, but there are other, better built options that probably cost less and are likely to be more reliable. too much bling for my taste these days though. I'd be inclined to save a bucket load of money and go for a Suzuki Jimny (they're much better than you might think)


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## Cycleops (6 Jun 2020)

Don you think the same nobs will be driving them though? And more importantly, for the owners at least, will they continue to break down?


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## SGG on a bike (6 Jun 2020)

I'm really not sure who would be driving them. People who aspire to owning a Range Rover but can't afford one might be a target for LR. "Traditional" owners who actually need a utilitarian 4x4 probably won't as other more suitable options are available and affordable. People who want a "blingy" 4x4 may not be swayed from their lifted, body kitted, mini monster truck, Ford Rangers which seem to be the weapon of choice currently. Eco warriors won't go anywhere near them, understandably, so I guess that leaves the school run brigade if you can get them out of their RR Evoques.

I do really hope they make a success of it and that they are reliable, but LR's track record hasn't been great since the mid 90s with the introduction of the P38 RR and its well documented air suspension issues.


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## Drago (6 Jun 2020)

All the hard core 4x4 boys I know are holding out for the Ineos Grenadier. A proper workhorse, live axles, British built. The Ineos engineers were quite disdainful of the new Defender as being a mere SUV.

Aside from all that, the old Defender was a tough old boot you could keep going through endless bodgery. The new one will be fit for nothing but the bin in 15 years of the contemporary LR products are anything to go by.


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## biggs682 (6 Jun 2020)

Another expensive toy that will never be used to it's full potential


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## MarkF (6 Jun 2020)

Another manufacturer losing the plot and it's USP at the same time, Jeep blew theirs years ago. I am certain there is still a large "Marlboro man" market for no-nonsense trucks that look better with a few scratches and dings. I could hardly give my 4L Cherokee away 6 years ago, today I'd struggle to afford to buy it back! It's a blah blob and if I'd seen it badgeless I'd have guessed "Kia".


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## Fab Foodie (6 Jun 2020)

Hopefully with new thinking post CV19, a global recession and the true shock of climate change upon us such needless shitboxes will rapidly become extinct....


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## cosmicbike (6 Jun 2020)

That is properly ugly.


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## Salad Dodger (6 Jun 2020)

The old, separate chassis with body bolted on top, Land rovers were built for work. They were capable of being converted from hard tops to soft tops to pickup trucks, and could even have stuff bolted through the rear floor into the chassis.
None of these things can be done to the new Defender. It's too expensive and too posh to be used as a working vehicle. It doesn't have a separate chassis, which Land Rover seem to think is a good thing. I believe a "working" model will be produced eventually, but I can't see that it will be adaptable enough for use as a working vehicle in a wide variety of applications.
I will be interested to see the new Ineos, one of these days.....


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## figbat (6 Jun 2020)

My wife had a go in one a bit before lockdown, at a Land Rover offroad experience. Now, she’s no offroad enthusiast but she was pretty impressed with it. Not impressed enough to replace the XC60 with one, mind.

I have to say, I quite like it. I’m not a die-hard Defenderati and I realise the new one is for a different clientele, but I’d at least like a good look at one.


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## DRHysted (6 Jun 2020)

What have they done!!!!

you know the old saying “if you want to go into the jungle drive a Land Rover. If you want to come back out again, drive a Toyota”.


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## Drago (7 Jun 2020)

Salad Dodger said:


> will be interested to see the new Ineos, one of these days.....


Ineos are busy building the factory as we speak, due for 2021 production to start. Their website doesn't show a complete vehicle, but does have videos talking you through most of the main items. They're using BMW powertrains and Magna Steyr 4x4 systems, so they're liable to be every bit as capable as the Landy but wont break every time the driver coughs.

https://ineosgrenadier.com/?gclid=C...ADqMj38J8CRyPTvi3gdGYy0ovjOwpA7kaAmchEALw_wcB

In fact, I'm really looking forward to its arrival. JLR have been too quick to blame everything and everyone for their woes of late, and if the Grenadier givers them a good kicking as seems possible - maybe even likely - it'll be more proof that they've simply not had their eye on the ball for over a decade. Ineos cash reserves and financial might dwarfs JRL, who are being kept on a tight budget by Tata, so my fingers are crossed that they can do it.

Volvo went from strength to strength when unleashed from their Ford paymasters, but JLR have floundered and made excuses, and on the rare occasion they do make a product that people want to buy (like the Evoque, fo some reason) they assemble it with Pritt Stik and saddle it with a rough and wheezy Ingenium engine instead of buying in a power unit from someone who actually knows that they're doing.


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Jun 2020)

SGG on a bike said:


> I was a die hard Land Rover man for many years, but sadly, they've lost their way from being rugged utilitarian vehicles and as you say, turned into lifestyle vehicles.


I'm with you, I started with a 2A Light-Weight, had 90s (including a genuine factory V8 CSW, not a transplant), 110Tdi's
My last 110 being a 'Heritage', with the Td5 (preceded by a Discovery 300Tdi)

Scaley-Gate
Jackson Bridge

Yes, that was standard suspension






Ramsden Lane, with Holmfirth in the background








SGG on a bike said:


> Now, I think they're far too expensive for what they are and not really any better for it. For a utilitarian vehicle, there are plenty of very reliable Japanese trucks that are perfectly capable enough off road to do what the Landies of old did. Most don't get used to their full capability and just get used on the odd farm track/byway.


Circa £59,000 for the one pictured (...'from'...!!!)



SGG on a bike said:


> I don't know what the towing capacity and payload is on the new Landie, but I strongly suspect it won't be 3 tonnes with a tonne in the back and a train weight of almost 6 tonnes.


It was (for Tdi/Td5) 3.5 ton on over-run brakes (not sure about the 'Puma' engines, but suspect the same)
If Special Vehicles division had fitted the complimentary air-brake system, they were allowed 4 tons
A rare conversion, but one that used to be seen a lot at race-courses
Pontefract Race-Course, 2007





Note air-tank under rear cross-member
Dixon-Bates produced the 'mini' 5th wheel












SGG on a bike said:


> As a Lifestyle 4x4, it's ok, but there are other, better built options that probably cost less and are likely to be more reliable. too much bling for my taste these days though. I'd be inclined to save a bucket load of money and go for a Suzuki Jimny (they're much better than you might think)


Yes, the Jimny is very capable


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## SGG on a bike (7 Jun 2020)

I started off with an ex RAF 1960 S2 88”, followed by a very early Range Rover two door (with manual steering box), I had several at the same time following that one, those being a V8 lightweight and a very rare S1 88” 2.0 diesel ( they only made that one for six months). After that an S3 Stage 1 Vs CSW For 9 years, followed by a 90 TD. Then came another Range Rover, this time a 3.9 Vogue SE for about 6 years, which ended up as a class 1 trialler. Finally had a P38, which I owned for about 7 years. The track where we keep the horses is a dead end and very tight for turning round, so I ended up with a Jimny just to get down there in the winter months. We had that for about 5 years and it was brilliant. None of the LRs I’ve owned have been unreliable, but they were all well looked after mechanically. Currently using a Ford Ranger, but it’s an older Mazda based model and not the current shape. I’ve only had that a year, but it’s a good work horse and has been very good so far.


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Jun 2020)

@SSG

That's the one I regret never buying; a Range Rover ('series 1')
I've driven quite a few, from 2-door/vinyl seated, to late 'soft dash' Tdi's

Yes please
https://www.graemehunt.com/inventory/347/1970-land-rover-velar

Then again, this is a bit more day-to-day friendly!!
(but still utterly gorgeous)
https://www.landrovercentre.com/product/wru606k/

If not an original, then a L322, as the TDV8
(might struggle to find the 'Unicorn' that is the manual version)


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## SGG on a bike (7 Jun 2020)

I had my early Rangie back in the early 80s, so it was still ”current” then and nothing like as good a condition as those you linked to. 🙂 

My favourite was the Stage 1V8. The original engine threw a rod and it ended up with an RPI built unit pushing around 225bhp.


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## Drago (7 Jun 2020)

Late SIIa, D1 V8 3.9 and D1 300TurDi. Mrs D put her foot down and banned me from owning another as they were just money pits and time wasters. She bought me an L200 as an incentive for getting shot of the fi al D1, and to be honest it was better in almost every way.

The only one I'd consider now is a Rangie MK1 CSK. As for the rest of them, the Japanese do it as well, cheaper, and better built, and the only reason people bother now is to Willy Wag.


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## Richard A Thackeray (7 Jun 2020)

Drago said:


> The only one I'd consider now is a Rangie MK1 CSK. As for the rest of them, the Japanese do it as well, cheaper, and better built, and the only reason people bother now is to Willy Wag.



CSK's are cool!

The original Range Rover Sport!!
Try this one (sadly sold)

https://www.graemehunt.com/inventory/270/1991-land-rover-range-rover-csk


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## Duffy (7 Jun 2020)

That's as ugly as sin.
Bloated and plug!


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## DRM (7 Jun 2020)

Land Rover have totally lost the plot with that thing, you'll never see one of those towing a stock trailer, taking utilities staff to the back of beyond for a days work, let alone on an expedition, it just a 2nd rate Discovery, I think it should have been built on a ladder chassis like a Japanese pick-up giving it the ability to be built as a single or double cab pick-up, van or station wagon, & most importantly the ability to be fully electric, perhaps as a hybrid for starters, my old 200 Tdi Disco was more of a workhorse than that thing.


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## CanucksTraveller (7 Jun 2020)

DRM said:


> Land Rover have totally lost the plot with that thing, you'll never see one of those towing a stock trailer, taking utilities staff to the back of beyond for a days work, let alone on an expedition, it just a 2nd rate Discovery, I think it should have been built on a ladder chassis like a Japanese pick-up giving it the ability to be built as a single or double cab pick-up, van or station wagon, & most importantly the ability to be fully electric, perhaps as a hybrid for starters, my old 200 Tdi Disco was more of a workhorse than that thing.



I think Land Rover have clearly given up on proper utility vehicles or workhorse type vehicles haven't they, this is just a variant on the plastic, lifestyle 4x4 / school run standard. It's where the money is, unfortunately. Everyone wants a statement vehicle now, everyone aspires to a plastic Range Rover or similar, it apparently tells you they've made it in life. And of course it'll have a vanity plate on it, every time you see one.

It's a far cry from the series 2 and 3 landies that I drove in the 90s, they worked hard. Electrically vulnerable of course, but mechanically they were good so long as you didn't keep breaking the half shaft with early handbrake applications.


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## keithmac (8 Jun 2020)

Land Rover make Range Rovers so if you buy either it's still ££££££ in Jaguar Land Rovers pocket.

I don't mind the new Disco, hopefully they've sorted all the mechanical and electrical issues out that plague both marques.


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## Drago (8 Jun 2020)

Chap I know spent an absolute fortune on a new Disco Sport. It was his dream car, and he specced it up the the gills with all sorts of official accessories, including the umderbody protection pack.

An utter, utter lemon. Riddled with faults, and the dealer was of little use in rectifying any of them. In the end he rejected it and now has a Forester, he just caught one of the very last diesel ones before they were deletedmfrom the range. Not as exciting or flash, but very capable and is utterly hassle free.

Where is the incentive to buy any LR product these days?

A true snittpet - my BiL is very senior on the development side for JLR, yet he drives a BMW. I asked him why this was, and he replied "Because BMW know how to make a car that works." Nuff said.


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## keithmac (8 Jun 2020)

Just Googled "Landrover Crankshaft Failure", shocking reading and very poor customer service.

Sounds reminiscent of my experiences with Ford..


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## sheddy (8 Jun 2020)

The ultimate futility vehicle ?


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## figbat (8 Jun 2020)

I once heard an anecdote regarding JLR - it was said that a new director of quality control (or some such) was appointed from outside JLR. He had his new company car delivered and initially assumed it must be some kind of test as he found a significant number of defects on it. Even if not true it speaks volumes of the regard they are held in in this respect. And yet they still fly off the shelves.


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## Richard A Thackeray (8 Jun 2020)

Drove past it this morning, with my daughter

She's with me on it, but adds that it's almost as _'Fugly'_ as the X6


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## stoatsngroats (8 Jun 2020)

I would have this back before the new one.....
And then, this one.....


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## Richard A Thackeray (8 Jun 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> View attachment 528447
> I would have this back before the new one.....
> And then, this one.....
> View attachment 528448



🤑🤑🤑


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## GilesM (29 Jul 2021)

I saw a 90 in the flesh for the first time at the end of April, I thought it looked fantastic, so good that I ordered one a few days later, looking forward to getting it, should be fun.


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## gbb (29 Jul 2021)

There is something about the look of them.
I saw two in two days (pretty sure anyway) a LWB and today SWB.
I like the looks personally.


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## Richard A Thackeray (30 Jul 2021)

We all ridiculed the DC100 concept as an unworthy successor, looking back it was closer to the truth, than we knew at the time


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## stephec (31 Jul 2021)

I passed a new 110 Defender yesterday, I can't see many farmers buying one, in which case they should've changed the name as it's not really a proper Defender.


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## Oldhippy (31 Jul 2021)

It's hideous!


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## Badger_Boom (31 Jul 2021)

It’s not a ‘real’ Defender - it doesn’t leak cold water into your lap from the roof when you turn the first corner on a rainy day, and you can’t see daylight through the door gaps or dashboard.

I like the new one, although it’s out of my price range. I saw a nice one yesterday in bog standard Land Rover blue with a white roof that set it off nicely.


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## DRM (1 Aug 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> It’s not a ‘real’ Defender - it doesn’t leak cold water into your lap from the roof when you turn the first corner on a rainy day, and you can’t see daylight through the door gaps or dashboard.
> 
> I like the new one, although it’s out of my price range. I saw a nice one yesterday in bog standard Land Rover blue with a white roof that set it off nicely.


It’s not a real Defender, there’s no option to be converted for any task and because of that they’ll never ever do a days work, never transport military personnel & kit, never be waiting at the end of an RAF runway with a fire extinguishing conversion, never bring livestock to/from the auction mart, never do an expedition, and never get utilities companies to that rural site,
it’s not a workhorse, it’s not a Defender, it’s the wrong car, at the wrong time, they’ve got it spectacularly wrong, and gifted everything listed above, and more besides to Toyota, Isuzu and Mitsubishi.


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## StuAff (1 Aug 2021)

TBF, it _could _do that stuff (Harry Metcalfe for one has demonstrated so). However, it won't do that stuff, because of the price. Like most SUVs, it'll be bought by idiot townies who think they need a three ton vehicle to feel 'safe', and idiots in more rural areas who think they live in 'the country' because there's a bit of mud and gravel on the road.


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## DRM (1 Aug 2021)

StuAff said:


> TBF, it _could _do that stuff (Harry Metcalfe for one has demonstrated so). However, it won't do that stuff, because of the price. Like most SUVs, it'll be bought by idiot townies who think they need a three ton vehicle to feel 'safe', and idiots in more rural areas who think they live in 'the country' because there's a bit of mud and gravel on the road.


It’ll never get any conversions done, simply because yes the Real Defender, and it’s predecessors were cheaper, and more importantly modular in construction, so you could strip them of the rear tub, put a hard top on a pick up, replace the chassis, modify it in a million ways, this new thing is a replacement for the 200/300 Tdi and TD5 Discovery, not the Defender


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## cougie uk (1 Aug 2021)

DRM said:


> It’s not a real Defender, there’s no option to be converted for any task and because of that they’ll never ever do a days work, never transport military personnel & kit, never be waiting at the end of an RAF runway with a fire extinguishing conversion, never bring livestock to/from the auction mart, never do an expedition, and never get utilities companies to that rural site,
> it’s not a workhorse, it’s not a Defender, it’s the wrong car, at the wrong time, they’ve got it spectacularly wrong, and gifted everything listed above, and more besides to Toyota, Isuzu and Mitsubishi.


Just wait until you see the new Grenadier!


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## DRM (1 Aug 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Just wait until you see the new Grenadier!


Seen it, the car Land Rover SHOULD have built,


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## swansonj (1 Aug 2021)

GilesM said:


> .... I ordered one a few days later, looking forward to getting it, should be fun.





StuAff said:


> .... Like most SUVs, it'll be bought by idiot townies who think they need a three ton vehicle to feel 'safe', and idiots in more rural areas who think they live in 'the country' because there's a bit of mud and gravel on the road.


????


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Aug 2021)

StuAff said:


> TBF, it _could _do that stuff (Harry Metcalfe for one has demonstrated so). However, it won't do that stuff, because of the price. Like most SUVs, it'll be bought by idiot townies who think they need a three ton vehicle to feel 'safe', and idiots in more rural areas who think they live in 'the country' because there's a bit of mud and gravel on the road.



Apart from that - do you like it?


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Aug 2021)

GilesM said:


> I saw a 90 in the flesh for the first time at the end of April, I thought it looked fantastic, so good that I ordered one a few days later, looking forward to getting it, should be fun.



Yes, it looks bloody nice. There's a clutch of them at the local dealer in Kendal and mighty fine beasts they are too. 

One has two rectangular luggage pods fixed on either side at the rear and just above the waistline - a small detail but it does look cool. 

We down-shifted on the car front years back so won't be buying one - but, back in the day, it would have been a fine car for us. 

Enjoy when it arrives!


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## Badger_Boom (1 Aug 2021)

DRM said:


> Seen it, the car Land Rover SHOULD have built,


It’s the car Land Rover should have built _20 years ago_. It’s dated looking, and seems to be resolutely internal combustion powered just in time for it to be banned.


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## DRM (1 Aug 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> It’s the car Land Rover should have built _20 years ago_. It’s dated looking, and seems to be resolutely internal combustion powered just in time for it to be banned.


My point entirely, the wrong car, at the wrong time, too long to get in to production, wrong design.


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## GilesM (28 Oct 2021)

Finally got a delivery date for my Defender, 3rd Dec, should be fun.


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## Drago (28 Oct 2021)

Chap round the corner, fellow labrador owner, is a Landie man. He has a new Defender, and his wife one of these LR custom shop Rangie Sports with the carbon bits.

A couple of days ago he stopped to make a fuss of Bruce and I asked him how the Defender was doing. "Don't ask", was his reply. In again, this time something to do with the dashboard going blank and the car shutting down randomly, thus causing soiling of Y fronts. He thinks its related to the cabin water leaks that he'd suffered earlier, and opined that hes beginning to wish hed kept his old G Wagen. A browse of the owners forums this morning doesn't look good, seems Gus is not alone, and JD Power had the model pegged firmly at the bottom.

Didn't have the heart to tell him my 13 year old XC90 had never suffered so much as a blown bulb, and was still on its original battery and exhaust...

So it seems little change. LR are continuing to make supremely capable vehicles, but assembling them with pritt stik. Unless Ineos drops a serious clanger, whichs seems pretty unlikely now (BMW power, Steyr drivetrain, ZF suspension, Bosch electrics, all top drawer stuff assembled by experienced workers in a factory used to making cars to MB standards) the Grenadier is going to steal the Defenders lunch. Indeed, they're selling so few Defenders, well under projection, that theyre struggling to turn a profit on the model (my BiL is a senior engineer at JLR so I get the goss) and when sales drop even further one wonders how much longer they'll continue with this vanity project? 

Coversely, the equally woeful (in reliability terms) RR chelsea tractor range continues to sell like hot cakes, and they continue to be able to shift easily all they can build, with many going abroad. That export market has failed to materialise for the Defender further hampering its long term viability, and the domestic utility market has long since moved on to cheaper, better built far eastern pick ups, so one wonders what sector of the market JLR thought would be queueing to buy the model? As Badger Boom observes above, its 20 years to late and the world, the market, and customer expectations have moved on.

As for me? I don't really want a new car, have no need for a car at all, but once the Grenadier is out ill be seeking out a test drive and buying one for damn sure. My heart tells me that I'd love a Defender, but my head tells me that I wouldn't touch one with yours.


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## GilesM (28 Oct 2021)

Drago said:


> As for me? I don't really want a new car, have no need for a car at all, but once the Grenadier is out ill be seeking out a test drive and buying one for damn sure. My heart tells me that I'd love a Defender, but my head tells me that I wouldn't touch one with yours.



If we all followed our head when it comes to buying stuff it would be a pretty dull world, life really is too short to buy a car based on a JD Power survey.


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## Profpointy (28 Oct 2021)

stoatsngroats said:


> View attachment 528447
> I would have this back before the new one.....
> And then, this one.....
> View attachment 528448



I'd love a 101. Still just about affordable, but only practical for me once we move to somewhere I can park it (and mend it) off road

My ex-Mrs had a 110 and it was pretty good to be fair. She had it a good while, and it wasn't in best nick when we got it. Stuff needed doing from time to time of course but it was basically sound


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## fossyant (28 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> If we all followed our head when it comes to buying stuff it would be a pretty dull world, life really is too short to buy a car based on a JD Power survey.



Until you need the damn thing to start at 7am. They are notoriously unreliable. Life is too short to put up with a crap car that's cost you ££££'s. I'd take my 20 year old Nissan over any JRL car - mine starts every time and doesn't throw electrical wobbles.

Wouldn't tough any JRL cars - bags of poo. Work colleague knew the mechanics at the garage by first name. Bloody good job really as the dealership was across from the office. 

The only Land Rover to get is the old one - at least you can spanner on them. I had a company Alfa 147 Selespeed. OK for a company car but it spent too much time in the garage. Had it been mine it would be sold. 

PS did you go for the silly external storage boxes so they look 'cool' ahem


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## GilesM (28 Oct 2021)

fossyant said:


> Until you need the damn thing to start at 7am. They are notoriously unreliable. Life is too short to put up with a crap car that's cost you ££££'s. I'd take my 20 year old Nissan over any JRL car - mine starts every time and doesn't throw electrical wobbles.
> 
> Wouldn't tough any JRL cars - bags of poo. Work colleague knew the mechanics at the garage by first name. Bloody good job really as the dealership was across from the office.
> 
> The only Land Rover to get is the old one - at least you can spanner on them.



My Evoque has started every morning for the last 5 years, and no electrical wobbles, but that's not the point, more important is that I spend my money on things I really like. I'm sure I will enjoy it, and if I have to wait for a yellow taxi, it will be a comfortable place to wait. As for the old Land Rover, I love them, but I don't really fancy a 6 hour motorway journey in one, I have a 2002 Lotus Elise for unpleasant motorway trips.



fossyant said:


> PS did you go for the silly external storage boxes so they look 'cool' ahem



No, IMHO, having seen them in the flesh, they look alright (ish) on the 110, but a wee bit silly on the 90.


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## gbb (28 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> If we all followed our head when it comes to buying stuff it would be a pretty dull world, life really is too short to buy a car based on a JD Power survey.


Tis true. I love the looks of the new Defender.
Interestingly i watched a YouTube video discussing the least reliable SUV offerings at that time. JLR vehicles came up at or near the top, no surprise there, it seems generally accepted.
But...lets say 30% of new vehicles had problems (i cant remember the exact percentage) , it quoted the average repair bill was blah blah, X amount were covered by warranty etc etc....and consequently repaired. The big question is, do they continue to be unreliable or is that fix...the fix.
Genuine questions....itll be interesting how the Defender is widely...or isn't, accepted.


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## Gunk (28 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> I have a 2002 Lotus Elise for unpleasant motorway trips.



I bought one brand new back in 1996, I still regret selling it.


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## Gunk (28 Oct 2021)

gbb said:


> The big question is, do they continue to be unreliable or is that fix...the fix.



I know a few people who have bought used Range Rovers out of warranty and it’s a world of pain.


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## gbb (28 Oct 2021)

The Range Rover thing i get,, i have a family member who had an 07 plate Range Rover then a 07 plate X5. Mechanically almost identical, he enjoyed having both for different reasons, the RR was a nicer drive by far but a tad troublesome. The X5 was relaible but nowhere near as nice to drive, probably because if the low profile tyres, in his opinion.
Ironically a former colleague brought his childhood dream, a Range Rover...but was a bit disappointed with it once he had it a while.

I always enjoyed driving the original Land Rovers (circa 1976, 3.5 litre petrol),..but you could break them, we were all year round surveying, cross country, farmland,....and we were young and stupid


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## dodgy (28 Oct 2021)

I'm renting a car for holiday in July 2022, I'd not dream of renting anything from JLR. I want to get there, and get home without hassle.


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## GilesM (28 Oct 2021)

Gunk said:


> I bought one brand new back in 1996, I still regret selling it.



I bought mine new, it's been off the road for while, but I'll keep it, I'm very attached to it.


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## GilesM (28 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> I'm renting a car for holiday in July 2022, I'd not dream of renting anything from JLR. I want to get there, and get home without hassle.



As rental it would be a perfect opportunity to try one.


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## dodgy (28 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> As rental it would be a perfect opportunity to try one.


Not if it means breaking down 75% the way to Morzine.


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## cougie uk (28 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> As rental it would be a perfect opportunity to try one.


Why though ? Unless you wanted it to cross fields or something. For most of us it's not a car to drive on the road.


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## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> Not if it means breaking down 75% the way to Morzine.



Unlikely you would, look how many LRJ there are on the road, do you think most of them don't actually manage A to B, and a RR or F pace would be quite stylish in a place like Morzine.


----------



## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Why though ? Unless you wanted it to cross fields or something. For most of us it's not a car to drive on the road.



Obviously it would be a bit dumb to rent or buy a car you didn't actually like or want to drive, but until you've tried one, don't knock the on road driving fun, I fully appreciate that they are not to everyone's taste, but if the only reason you wouldn't have one is for fear of breaking down then a rental is the way to sample one, any problems and it's the rental company's problem.


----------



## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

My Evoque resting in an underground car park in Dresden, after not leaving me stranded getting there a few days earlier, and again not leaving me stranded going to Berlin airport and back for yet another PCR test, you can see by the anti-speed camera plate that the weather was a tad inclement, as a result there were a few cars and trucks that did leave their owners stranded that day, but those wonderful transmission designers at LRJ gave me the right buttons to push, and also lots of good stuff without me even having to think about buttons.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> Unlikely you would, look how many LRJ there are on the road, do you think most of them don't actually manage A to B, and a RR or F pace would be quite stylish in a place like Morzine.


I'm not sure you understand my point, which is; I would rather take a vehicle on what is a very long journey that has an excellent reliability record.
A JLR vehicle may not break down on the 900 mile journey, but it's more likely to than the alternatives, and it's that nagging doubt that would distract from what should be an enjoyable experience.

Also, I'm not at all swayed by a car looking 'stylish' in a 'place like Morzine'. that sounds like something out of Car magazine 
When I see a car I don't think that bestows some quality on the driver, it's just a car that has been bought instead of buying something else. However, I am impressed with a cyclist that has worked hard to become fit and fly past me on the cols, that's impressive, not his choice of bike. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> I'm not sure you understand my point, which is I would rather take a vehicle on what is a very long journey that has an excellent reliability record.
> A JLR vehicle may not break down on the 900 mile journey, but it's more likely to than the alternatives, and it's that nagging doubt that would distract from what should be an enjoyable experience.



It's not that I don't understand your point, it's just that I am surprised by it. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your holiday next year, I love that part of the world.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> It's not that I don't understand your point, it's just that I am surprised by it. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your holiday next year, I love that part of the world.


It's beautiful, haven't been since 2019 for obvious reasons, we usually go every year. Think we'll probably just rent a Skoda something or other!


----------



## Badger_Boom (29 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> I'm not sure you understand my point, which is; I would rather take a vehicle on what is a very long journey that has an excellent reliability record.
> A JLR vehicle may not break down on the 900 mile journey, but it's more likely to than the alternatives, and it's that nagging doubt that would distract from what should be an enjoyable experience.


I'll bite.

Maybe I've just been lucky but my now aged, third-hand, over-complicated Discovery 3 has done nealry 250,000 miles and has never broken down in the eight years since I bought it. I have no hesitation about getting in it and expecting to arive at my destination regardless of distance.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> I'll bite.
> 
> Maybe I've just been lucky but my now aged, third-hand, over-complicated Discovery 3 has done nealry 250,000 miles and has never broken down in the eight years since I bought it. I have no hesitation about getting in it and expecting to arive at my destination regardless of distance.



Anecdote isn't data, besides, I'm not about to rent a vehicle with 250,000 miles on it.


----------



## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

Badger_Boom said:


> Maybe I've just been lucky but my now aged, third-hand, over-complicated Discovery 3 has done nealry 250,000 miles and has never broken down in the eight years since I bought it. I have no hesitation about getting in it and expecting to arive at my destination regardless of distance.



Lots of lucky people about, amazing how many LRJ vehicles you see moving under their own power.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

And amazing how such a premium marque does so badly in reliability data.


----------



## GilesM (29 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> And amazing how such a premium marque does so badly in reliability data.



Go on, live dangerously, rent a LRJ for your trip to Morzine, you'll love it. You know you want to.


----------



## DRHysted (29 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> Lots of lucky people about, amazing how many LRJ vehicles you see moving under their own power.


They say 75% of Landrovers are still on the road, the rest made it home. 
If you want to drive into the jungle drive a Landrover, if you want to drive back out drive a Toyota. 
the old’ens are the gold’ens.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

GilesM said:


> Go on, live dangerously, rent a LRJ for your trip to Morzine, you'll love it. You know you want to.



You seem a really nice bloke, I'm not taking the piss *honestly*. 


But I couldn't in all good conscience take a massive SUV onto the roads, there's enough of them already and they're a blight on our roads (in my, and probably many other's opinion). It would make me a massive hypocrite, I don't have many nice things to say about these over-sized vehicles which usually contain just one person. Morzine and Sameons is/are beautiful, they wouldn't' look any more beautiful with a massive panzerwagon parked on their pretty and quiet streets.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (29 Oct 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I saw my first one today
> It was on the forecourt of _Guy Salmon - Wakefield_ (A61 Barnsley Road) in Sandal
> 
> A big beastie, but far too flash
> ...


OP response shocker!

Almost inconceivable that they will seek to go back into the original Landy market - they've simply abandoned it for the much higher-margin lifestyle market, leaving others to move in - primarily the producers of pickup-type vehicles, I think.


----------



## Gunk (29 Oct 2021)

Do some people really read a JD Power survey to see how reliable a hire car is? I couldn’t give a shite what car I end up with, it’s only usually for a week, and these days nearly all cars are pretty good.


----------



## dodgy (29 Oct 2021)

Gunk said:


> Do some people really read a JD Power survey to see how reliable a hire car is? I couldn’t give a shite what car I end up with, it’s only usually for a week, and these days nearly all cars are pretty good.


Depends how far you're going, especially how far from home you'll be. If I was hiring a van for local use i wouldn't give a 'shite', but if I'm driving 900 miles to the French alps, you bet I'll take reliability into account.


----------



## fossyant (29 Oct 2021)

dodgy said:


> You seem a really nice bloke, I'm not taking the piss *honestly*.
> 
> 
> But I couldn't in all good conscience take a massive SUV onto the roads, there's enough of them already and they're a blight on our roads (in my, and probably many other's opinion). It would make me a massive hypocrite, I don't have many nice things to say about these over-sized vehicles which usually contain just one person. Morzine and Sameons is/are beautiful, they wouldn't' look any more beautiful with a massive panzerwagon parked on their pretty and quiet streets.



You are right. My saloon car can transport 4 blokes and bikes in comfort over many miles. MrsF has a crossover, its about the same size as my car and newer, but shoot for bike transport due to height.

A forum member is the same, the family car is a saloon, carries 4 bikes, but he has an old landy that he uses not often, but when he does it's real off road - not what you'd do with the new frilly pants Defender... pukka trials stuff. 

I don't get rolling around in a massive panzer when it never is used as it may be intended.


----------



## cougie uk (29 Oct 2021)

Gunk said:


> Do some people really read a JD Power survey to see how reliable a hire car is? I couldn’t give a shite what car I end up with, it’s only usually for a week, and these days nearly all cars are pretty good.


Not for a hire car as they're often not guaranteed - but before buying ? You bet I do.


----------



## GilesM (1 Nov 2021)

fossyant said:


> You are right. My saloon car can transport 4 blokes and bikes in comfort over many miles. MrsF has a crossover, its about the same size as my car and newer, but shoot for bike transport due to height.



I haven't had more than two people and two bikes in a car since I stopped racing in 1988, so the bikes always go in the back, not on the roof.



fossyant said:


> A forum member is the same, the family car is a saloon, carries 4 bikes, but he has an old landy that he uses not often, but when he does it's real off road - *not what you'd do with the new frilly pants Defender*... pukka trials stuff.
> 
> I don't get rolling around in a massive panzer when it never is used as it may be intended.



Why not, I hope I get round to doing some proper stuff in it, I will post pictures when I do, the difference with the new defender is it does all of the rough stuff that the old one could, probably a bit better with a few extra bits of tech to help the not so talented like me, the doors seal properly so that deeper water doesn't come in to the cabin, and when it's being used as a normal car it's really nice to drive on all roads, especially at higher speeds for long distances, not something you could say about the original.


----------



## fossyant (1 Nov 2021)

GilesM said:


> I haven't had more than two people and two bikes in a car since I stopped racing in 1988, so the bikes always go in the back, not on the roof.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not, I hope I get round to doing some proper stuff in it, I will post pictures when I do, the difference with the new defender is it does all of the rough stuff that the old one could, probably a bit better with a few extra bits of tech to help the not so talented like me, the doors seal properly so that deeper water doesn't come in to the cabin, and when it's being used as a normal car it's really nice to drive on all roads, especially at higher speeds for long distances, not something you could say about the original.



Just be careful you don't rip off the plastic bits, could be expensive, or scratch it - if leased be very careful.


----------



## GilesM (1 Nov 2021)

fossyant said:


> Just be careful you don't rip off the plastic bits, could be expensive, or scratch it - if leased be very careful.



It won't be leased, and all my cars end up with battle scars, most serious was crashing my Lotus on track, significant repairs required. They are bought to be used.


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (1 Nov 2021)

This L322 copes very well here (New South Wales)
On road tyres too, it states

TDV8, what a motor!!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10wpwcBvnIY


----------



## fossyant (1 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> This L322 copes very well here (New South Wales)
> On road tyres too, it states
> 
> TDV8, what a motor!!
> ...




Tell you what, my MTB is many times faster than that lot. Are you sure these 'car' things will catch on ?


----------



## cougie uk (1 Nov 2021)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> This L322 copes very well here (New South Wales)
> On road tyres too, it states
> 
> TDV8, what a motor!!
> ...



Strange hobby. Going out to beautiful places and destroying them with huge tyres.


----------



## Cletus Van Damme (3 Nov 2021)

yuk


----------



## MrGrumpy (13 Nov 2021)

As a Discovery 4 owner , the new Defender doesn’t do it for me , the old ones are $$$$$ now and my local Indie does conversions and sells these on. You would never take the new Defender off road it’s far too posh . The new Disco 5 is another horror, as well. Different clientele now in that market.

My Disco is 9 1/2 yrs old now, Greta wouldn’t approve but when I bought it , it was a do it all car. 7 seats which allowed us all to go on holiday ( large family ) in one car. 5yrs on and I could probably down size a bit . My boys are up but nothing really out there that can replace it.
Decision will be probably be made next year on the caravan and if I do sell that on then I will be in the market for something else, maybe a bit more eco so Greta and her pals stop sticking pins in their voodoo dolls as I keep getting this stabbing pain


----------



## Illaveago (13 Nov 2021)

I liked the old Top Gear programme where they tested 3 4x4 vehicles in South America and discovered that the most reliable vehicle was the most unreliable one !
It is a shame that they have stopped producing the old work horse. It also seems strange now to see a lot more of the old Land Rovers appearing on TV programmes in remote areas .


----------



## gbb (13 Nov 2021)

GilesM said:


> Obviously it would be a bit dumb to rent or buy a car you didn't actually like or want to drive, but until you've tried one, don't knock the on road driving fun, I fully appreciate that they are not to everyone's taste, but if the only reason you wouldn't have one is for fear of breaking down then a rental is the way to sample one, any problems and it's the rental company's problem.


I drove mid 1970s LRs a lot, proper use of the vehicles, off road, etc etc. As said, we did break them sometimes but the one thing they were was immense fun. Sit high, powerful but not performance, rugged, etc etc. Its a marmite thing, you either get it...or you don't.


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## MrGrumpy (13 Nov 2021)

gbb said:


> I drove mid 1970s LRs a lot, proper use of the vehicles, off road, etc etc. As said, we did break them sometimes but the one thing they were was immense fun. Sit high, powerful but not performance, rugged, etc etc. Its a marmite thing, you either get it...or you don't.


Had a mate who worked in the road building business back in early 90s . His mode of transport about sites was a defender. It was immense what it was capable off on standard suspension etc. I still hanker for one but prices are stupid.


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## DRM (13 Nov 2021)

I’ve seen a few of these out and about now, not one of them looks like it’s got, or ever will get slightly muddy, it’s just a lifestyle vehicle now, even those that have stickers on advertising the drivers business, JLR have abandoned utility use to the various Japanese pick up brands, as older Defenders become unsustainable to keep running they’re going to be replaced with a pick up and scrapped, I can’t see many farmers/utility businesses refurbishing them to keep them going, even though it‘s pretty straightforward to stick a galvanised chassis under it and fit new brakes/pipes/hoses and get a further long life out of it, even though it would be cheaper than a new car, and better to keep it going environmentally Thant to build a brand new car.


----------



## MrGrumpy (13 Nov 2021)

DRM said:


> I’ve seen a few of these out and about now, not one of them looks like it’s got, or ever will get slightly muddy, it’s just a lifestyle vehicle now, even those that have stickers on advertising the drivers business, JLR have abandoned utility use to the various Japanese pick up brands, as older Defenders become unsustainable to keep running they’re going to be replaced with a pick up and scrapped, I can’t see many farmers/utility businesses refurbishing them to keep them going, even though it‘s pretty straightforward to stick a galvanised chassis under it and fit new brakes/pipes/hoses and get a further long life out of it, even though it would be cheaper than a new car, and better to keep it going environmentally Thant to build a brand new car.


Defenders still very much sought after . Just not farmers as quite rightly the Jap pickups have taken over !


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## GilesM (15 Nov 2021)

DRM said:


> I’ve seen a few of these out and about now, not one of them looks like it’s got, *or ever will get slightly muddy*, it’s just a lifestyle vehicle now,



When I finally get mine (delivery date has slipped by two weeks) I will post muddy pictures, whether that will or won't make it a lifestyle vehicle I have absolutely no idea, but I'm sure I will be smiling when I am adding the mud.


----------



## MrGrumpy (15 Nov 2021)

GilesM said:


> When I finally get mine (delivery date has slipped by two weeks) I will post muddy pictures, whether that will or won't make it a lifestyle vehicle I have absolutely no idea, but I'm sure I will be smiling when I am adding the mud.


Ohh another Chelsea tractor driver  now I don’t feel so alone


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## DRM (16 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Defenders still very much sought after . Just not farmers as quite rightly the Jap pickups have taken over !


They certainly are, prices were daft enough before JLR stopped production, it’s only going to get worse now


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## GilesM (18 Nov 2021)

MrGrumpy said:


> Ohh another Chelsea tractor driver  now I don’t feel so alone



Lots of us about


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## GilesM (7 Jan 2022)

Finally got a fixed delivery date of Friday 14th Jan, will post pics, hopefully a few in the showroom shine before the inevitable muddy ones. Looking forward to getting it, although I will be bit sad about selling the Evoque, it has been a great car.


----------



## fossyant (7 Jan 2022)

Quicker delivery than most cars !


----------



## cougie uk (7 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> Finally got a fixed delivery date of Friday 14th Jan, will post pics, hopefully a few in the showroom shine before the inevitable muddy ones. Looking forward to getting it, although I will be bit sad about selling the Evoque, it has been a great car.


Are you getting the lunch box for the side window too ?


----------



## fossyant (7 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Are you getting the lunch box for the side window too ?


I believe he has more taste than the external lunch box !


----------



## GilesM (7 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> Quicker delivery than most cars !



I ordered it in May, however, I understand I got in just before the really bad current delays hit.


----------



## fossyant (7 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> I ordered it in May, however, I understand I got in just before the really bad current delays hit.



You've more patience than I'd have.


----------



## GilesM (7 Jan 2022)

cougie uk said:


> Are you getting the lunch box for the side window too ?


No, I think they look a bit odd, especially on the 90. I did think about the factory fit ladder as we are looking at roof tents, but decided it also looks a bit strange.


----------



## GilesM (7 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> You've more patience than I'd have.



I enjoy driving the Evoque, so happy to wait.


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

Finally collected my new Defender on Friday, so far so good, weekend in Cumbria, 600miles and no need for Land Rover rescue yet.


----------



## fossyant (17 Jan 2022)

Looks good, now don't go over to the electric car threads, your planet destroying diesel will upset them.


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## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> Looks good, now don't go over to the electric car threads, your planet destroying diesel will upset them.


I'll tread carefully on that thread, if they find out my Defender is actually a planet destroying petrol powered one they'll be even more upset, but in reality electric car owners should be thanking me, all the VED, VAT, and petrol duty I'm paying is subsidising their car ownership.


----------



## fossyant (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> I'll tread carefully on that thread, if they find out my Defender is actually a planet destroying petrol powered one they'll be even more upset, but in reality electric car owners should be thanking me, all the VED, VAT, and petrol duty I'm paying is subsidising their car ownership.



What engine is in the petrol ? Out of interest.


----------



## fossyant (17 Jan 2022)

PS looks good in two door form, more like the original


----------



## mustang1 (17 Jan 2022)

I think that new Defender is a fantastic vehicle. Sure you can't fix it yourself as with the old one but no one was expecting that. Haven't been in one but the review says it's really comfortable over bumpy tracks and considering our roads are pretty much like bumpy tracks except they're layered with tarmac rather than gravel.

I would get the LWB model in basic spec, a ladder on the side, a roof rack. Chuck a couple of bikes in the back and we're rollin'!


----------



## Jody (17 Jan 2022)

Nice tidy motor there Giles.


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jan 2022)

Its way out of my budget , maybe in 4yrs I could stretch to one. I like them , but very pricey compared to the original .


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> What engine is in the petrol ? Out of interest.



3L Petrol, 6cyl, 400bhp, electric supercharger for low down umph and turbo for the higher revs, it also has a mild hybrid system for collecting energy during braking and re-using it during hard acceleration, the starter motor is a electric generator/motor and works with a 48v battery system, all very clever, but to put it simply it's a lovely car to drive, overtaking is easy and fun, and it makes a lovely noise when you press the loud pedal. A brief bit (about 1 mile) of very muddy track on Saturday was fun, hopefully more of that to come, but I hardly noticed we were on slippy stuff.


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> PS looks good in two door form, more like the original


I agree, it's not as practical as the 4 door, but as we only have 2 people (and often 2 bikes) in it for 99% of the time it's no problem.


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Its way out of my budget , maybe in 4yrs I could stretch to one. I like them , but very pricey compared to the original .



They are a wee bit pricey, we are lucky enough to be in a situation where we can now afford one, and it may be my last chance to buy a car with a powerful petrol engine.


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> They are a wee bit pricey, we are lucky enough to be in a situation where we can now afford one, and it may be my last chance to buy a car with a powerful petrol engine.


Well that day may come for me , however I need to sink my cash into my house and kitchens and windows


----------



## FishFright (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> I'll tread carefully on that thread, if they find out my Defender is actually a planet destroying petrol powered one they'll be even more upset, but in reality electric car owners should be thanking me, all the VED, VAT, and petrol duty I'm paying is subsidising their car ownership.



Just wait until you hear about the subsidising of the oil industry.


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

FishFright said:


> Just wait until you hear about the subsidising of the oil industry.



I'm sure we could talk about that in many places, but this is really just a thread about the new Defender.


----------



## FishFright (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> I'm sure we could talk about that in many places, but this is really just a thread about the new Defender.



It's pants because it's not the old one

or

It's great because it's not the old one


Which side wins ?


----------



## fossyant (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> 3L Petrol, 6cyl, 400bhp, electric supercharger for low down umph and turbo for the higher revs, it also has a mild hybrid system for collecting energy during braking and re-using it during hard acceleration, the starter motor is a electric generator/motor and works with a 48v battery system, all very clever, but to put it simply it's a lovely car to drive, overtaking is easy and fun, and it makes a lovely noise when you press the loud pedal. A brief bit (about 1 mile) of very muddy track on Saturday was fun, hopefully more of that to come, but I hardly noticed we were on slippy stuff.



Nice. I fancy an Infiniti Q50 - only available used, but it's a hot hybrid. The battery is used for punch and that's over 400bhp, coupled to Nissan's legendary 3.5 v6 (no turbo or supercharger for reliability).


----------



## Jody (17 Jan 2022)

FishFright said:


> It's pants because it's not the old one
> 
> and
> 
> It's great because it's not the old one



Seems a fair review.


----------



## GilesM (17 Jan 2022)

FishFright said:


> It's pants because it's not the old one
> 
> or
> 
> ...


IMHO it's great as it has enough of the DNA of the old one to know it's a Land Rover, but with all the modern stuff that makes it (especially long journeys) more enjoyable.


----------



## fossyant (17 Jan 2022)

GilesM said:


> IMHO it's great as it has enough of the DNA of the old one to know it's a Land Rover, but with all the modern stuff that makes it (especially long journeys) more enjoyable.



Psst, you get a radio  
How about air conditioning - aka the flaps under the front window. 
No soft top though !  
Do you have carpets ?


----------



## GilesM (18 Jan 2022)

fossyant said:


> Psst, you get a radio
> How about air conditioning - aka the flaps under the front window.
> No soft top though !
> Do you have carpets ?



I have a funny feeling that our journey from Bassenthwaite Lake back to East Lothian on Sunday evening was a touch more comfortable than if we'd been in an old Defender.

Excellent sound system
Perfect climate control
Lots of sound deadening material, including small easy to remove and clean carpet mats, combined with a very modern engine ticking over at less than 2000rpm at sensible motorway speeds.

Did we wish we were in an old Defender?

Not a soft top, but the roof does open enough to get a proper amount of wind through the cabin, obviously not used too much this weekend


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## GilesM (8 Feb 2022)

Obviously firmly touching wood as I say this, but the new Defender has been absolutely perfect so far, I've been working in Ireland for the last 10 days, amusingly LRJ tracker monitoring team contacted me when I was on the Cairnyan to Belfast Ferry, the rough sea seems to have looked like somebody trying to break into the car, nice to know they are looking after things. Still smiling every time I get in the car, need to get home and test it's bike carrying ability.


----------



## Simple Simon (16 Feb 2022)

Not a Defender, but the new Range Rover which is pretty handy off road too. Great fun!


----------



## MrGrumpy (17 Feb 2022)

Had an experience day in a RR Vogue a few years back. Very capable off road and super nice drive on it. Used prices have gone nuts but quite fancied one . Reckon I could suffer the running costs . The V8 economy wise was not as brutal as it would seem compared to my Discovery .


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## GilesM (17 Feb 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Had an experience day in a RR Vogue a few years back. Very capable off road and super nice drive on it. Used prices have gone nuts but quite fancied one . Reckon I could suffer the running costs . The V8 economy wise was not as brutal as it would seem compared to my Discovery .



I need to book my free day out at one of the Land Rover off road places, looking forward to it, one of the interesting things will be to see how the different cars manage, something that is easy to forget is just how impressive the big RRs are off road.


----------



## fossyant (17 Feb 2022)

I'd easily burn the lot of you off on that track on my MTB - it's as smooth as the M1.


----------



## Roseland triker (17 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> I'd easily burn the lot of you off on that track on my MTB - it's as smooth as the M1.


They do drive like girls so your probably in with a chance....

...on a battery bike...


----------



## fossyant (17 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> They do drive like girls so your probably in with a chance....
> 
> ...on a battery bike...


Don't need a battery.


----------



## Roseland triker (17 Feb 2022)

Lol true enough.


----------



## GilesM (17 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> I'd easily burn the lot of you off on that track on my MTB - it's as smooth as the M1.


I'll post some pics when I have my fun day out, hope it's a bit rougher than that, and the water and mud is a lot deeper.


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## cougie uk (17 Feb 2022)

The storms might well help you. No need to go off-road !


----------



## fossyant (17 Feb 2022)

cougie uk said:


> The storms might well help you. No need to go off-road !



He'll be pulling cars out of ditches !


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (18 Feb 2022)

GilesM said:


> I need to book my free day out at one of the Land Rover off road places, looking forward to it, one of the interesting things will be to see how the different cars manage, something that is easy to forget is just how impressive the big RRs are off road.


Despite having had several LR products, I've never owned a Range-Rover

I'd like either;
*1. *a VGC 'Series 1' (70 - 95), as a 300Tdi/manual, 100" wheelbase
*2.* a L322 'Series 3' (2001 - 2012) with the TDV8 (3.6litre V8, twin-turbo diesel), but as the extremely rare manual 'box


I'm not a fan at all of the present shape, it could be a Lexus, a Lincoln, even a Kia
The real Velar is on the left


----------



## DRM (19 Feb 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Despite having had several LR products, I've never owned a Range-Rover
> 
> I'd like either;
> *1. *a VGC 'Series 1' (70 - 95), as a 300Tdi/manual, 100" wheelbase
> ...


I recall reading that one of those who was involved in developing the Range Rover, borrowed one of the pre production Velars to take their caravan to a caravan club rally, possibly the national, so around 1969/70, apparently it wasn't the hoped for relaxing weekend away due to the constant stream of people wanting to know what make a Velar was, where can I buy one, and can I have look round it.
I'm guessing the report back at work was "we're on to a winner"
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/range-rover-mk1-1970-retro-road-test
Have a look at the road test from 1970


----------



## Richard A Thackeray (20 Feb 2022)

@DRM

I have the ‘Brooklands Book’ of road-tests


----------



## GilesM (23 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> He'll be pulling cars out of ditches !


No cars to pull out of ditches, we only saw one farmer in his Japanese pick-up and two snow ploughs on this road, it was not quite the wet windy weather we were expecting, but on top of the Lammermuir hills early Saturday morning it was quite stunning, only disappointment was the snow ploughs got up before us, but it was fun (and very impressive) driving up the steep section (17%) up to the top of Redstone Rig without even the smallest of wheel spins, a wee bit of a slide on the sharp bend but that was down to driver enthusiasm, got to test the hill descent on a snowy/icy bit of downhill, a bit weird driving down a steep hill and letting the car do all its stuff, but difficult not to be impressed.


----------



## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Junk. 

There not really defender anymore


----------



## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Junk.
> 
> There not really defender anymore


I'm sure Giles M will give your review due weight 😊

Not a Defender of old, for sure, but junk? I think not.


----------



## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> I'm sure Giles M will give your review due weight 😊
> 
> Not a Defender of old, for sure, but junk? I think not.


Just another car made the same way as all the other junk. Overpriced and not effective. Would you push cow gates open or chuck a dead sheep in the back?

I run around in a 200tdi and a 300tdi.....


----------



## fossyant (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Just another car made the same way as all the other junk. Overpriced and not effective. Would you push cow gates open or chuck a dead sheep in the back?
> 
> I run around in a 200tdi and a 300tdi.....



I think we've moved on from caveman times. You'd get a rattly old Defender for dead sheep, or a pickup these days.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Just another car made the same way as all the other junk. Overpriced and not effective. Would you push cow gates open or chuck a dead sheep in the back?
> 
> I run around in a 200tdi and a 300tdi.....


I said "Not a Defender of old" because it's not one of those. We've also had quite an extensive discussion earlier thread about this fundamental change in a vehicle's purpose.

But if you think it's junk, that's your prerogative.

You have a right to be wrong, because you may be comparing a wheely bin with a trampoline, I fear


----------



## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> I think we've moved on from caveman times. You'd get a rattly old Defender for dead sheep, or a pickup these days.


So why call it a defender when it's a mitsubishi shogun?

No real replacement for a real defender


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> So why call it a defender when it's a mitsubishi shogun?
> 
> No real replacement for a real defender


Because badge recognition. Because they are not replacing the old Defender. All discussed earlier thread 

The spiritual successor to the Defender is the new breed of pickups, IMHO.


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Because badge recognition. Because they are not replacing the old Defender. All discussed earlier thread
> 
> The spiritual successor to the Defender is the new breed of pickups, IMHO.


Should be called freeloader


----------



## Jody (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Should be called freeloader



Don't you mean Discovery Sport


----------



## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Jody said:


> Don't you mean Discovery Sport


May as well be. Equally as bad. Not really in the spirit of the land rover brand .


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> May as well be. Equally as bad. Not really in the spirit of the land rover brand .


That brand you seem to hanker after has gone. Long gone. Land Rover is a lifestyle brand, put simply.


----------



## Jody (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Not really in the spirit of the land rover brand .



It is given the direction they're heading in. Similar to what BMW did with the Mini brand.


----------



## figbat (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> That brand you seem to hanker after has gone. Long gone.


And so has the lifestyle - it’s not post-war Britain any more, the demand for utilitarian machines has passed or is being fulfilled by modern alternatives. Every car brand has moved on in the last half century.


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

We live in a eastern block economic slum here so using modern vehicles for general work is way too expensive.
New Hilux cost too much and break apart far quicker than Toyota lead you to believe so I'll stick with my defender and discovery thanks.
Mechanical equipment is definitely needed here


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## figbat (23 Feb 2022)

I live in a rural area surrounded by arable and sheep farming. The farmers all seem to get about OK in Hiluxes, Subarus, Ford Rangers, Isuzus, L200s and quite a few of those large agricultural quad bike type things. Not a Defender in sight yet still they manage.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

figbat said:


> I live in a rural area surrounded by arable and sheep farming. The farmers all seem to get about OK in Hiluxes, Subarus, Ford Rangers, Isuzus, L200s and quite a few of those large agricultural quad bike type things. Not a Defender in sight yet still they manage.


Defenders are too valuable to use for their intended purpose these days, aren't they?


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## figbat (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Defenders are too valuable to use for their intended purpose these days, aren't they?


I meant the old ones, but given the state of the used car market and anything with a vintage heritage I’d say yes!


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

figbat said:


> I meant the old ones, but given the state of the used car market and anything with a vintage heritage I’d say yes!


Back bone of field work and farming here definitely not collection items


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## fossyant (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Because badge recognition. Because they are not replacing the old Defender. All discussed earlier thread
> 
> The spiritual successor to the Defender is the new breed of pickups, IMHO.



And then they are a bit posh these days. No-one wants uncomfy seats, windy windows, no air con etc etc, and these sell well, despite their less than environmental credentials - ssshhhh don't tell the leccy car drivers, they would explode.


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> And then they are a bit posh these days. No-one wants uncomfy seats, windy windows, no air con etc etc, and these sell well, despite their less than environmental credentials - ssshhhh don't tell the leccy car drivers, they would explode.


I use my discovery for work. It's mechanical, 2 axles 2 gearboxes a chassis and engine.
It's got leather seats, Aircon leccy windows heated windscreen etc etc and is very comfortable.
I push gates with it .chuck dead shieet in the back etc etc ts got 7 seats too so plenty of cabin.
I put loaded pallets of stone in the back with the loader and chuck in the dog and a packed lunch.

Wouldn't do that to a new defender or discovery as it would break.


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## fossyant (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> I use my discovery for work. It's mechanical, 2 axles 2 gearboxes a chassis and engine.
> It's got leather seats, Aircon leccy windows heated windscreen etc etc and is very comfortable.
> I push gates with it .chuck dead shieet in the back etc etc ts got 7 seats too so plenty of cabin.
> I put loaded pallets of stone in the back with the loader and chuck in the dog and a packed lunch.
> ...



Oh you sneak, you've got an old one !  Must have a posh one with aircon !


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> I use my discovery for work. It's mechanical, 2 axles 2 gearboxes a chassis and engine.
> It's got leather seats, Aircon leccy windows heated windscreen etc etc and is very comfortable.
> I push gates with it .chuck dead shieet in the back etc etc ts got 7 seats too so plenty of cabin.
> I put loaded pallets of stone in the back with the loader and chuck in the dog and a packed lunch.
> ...


They would.

Because they _aren't for that purpose any more_ - and therefore 'junk' in your eyes


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## gbb (23 Feb 2022)

I don't really understand the need to compare old with new (or vice versa)
As figbat states, times have moved on, all manufacturers have moved on, we as consumers have moved on.

Who in the world, barring farmers, utility providers etc perhaps, uses a 4wd vehicle in the way it used to be far more common to do so. 
Landrover (i strongly suspect) didnt sell many original 110s, original defenders to the general public as general runarounds, dailly drivers. Now people want this kind of vehicle, its been made so it appeals (whether you like it or not) to a far wider audience and as a result (for better or worse) their sales are probably infinately higher than when they made original Defenders. I alo suspect had they not evolved, they may well have disappeared off the face of the earth by now.

I'm firmly in the freedom of choice camp. If someone can afford and wants a vehicle that many cannot...who am i to question. ?


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

gbb said:


> I don't really understand the need to compare old with new (or vice versa)
> As figbat states, times have moved on, all manufacturers have moved on, we as consumers have moved on.
> 
> Who in the world, barring farmers, utility providers etc perhaps, uses a 4wd vehicle in the way it used to be far more common to do so.
> ...


The reason defender was discontinued was the fact it takes a week to build one and a range rover pops out every half hour or so and is twice the price and sum.


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## FishFright (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> That brand you seem to hanker after has gone. Long gone. Land Rover is a lifestyle brand, put simply.



That's where the sales are nowadays.


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Oh you sneak, you've got an old one !  Must have a posh one with aircon !


Yep. 1998 one owner with full service history from land rover since 1998 lol


Really nice atchualy. Even got remote central locking that works!


----------



## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Yep. 1998 one owner with full service history from land rover since 1998 lol
> 
> 
> Really nice atchualy. Even got *remote central locking* that works!


What do you need that for? It's a working vehicle, for working people, to do work with, not some nancy jonny-come-lately lifestyle SUV.

I'd keep quiet about those modern accoutrements if I were you, lest someone tells you you're driving junk


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> What do you need that for? It's a working vehicle, for working people, to do work with, not some nancy jonny-come-lately lifestyle SUV.
> 
> I'd keep quiet about those modern accoutrements if I were you, lest someone tells you you're driving junk


It's handy when wearing thick leather gloves for locking the guns away.


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> It's handy when wearing thick leather gloves for locking the guns away.


Glove wearing now is it? Whatever next?


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> Glove wearing now is it? Whatever next?


Yes always wear leather gloves for driving the rover. Don't want to look like a peasant


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## figbat (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Yep. 1998 one owner with full service history from land rover since 1998 lol
> 
> 
> Really nice atchualy. Even got remote central locking that works!


Aren’t those the ones with BMW engines? Heresy!


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## Roseland triker (23 Feb 2022)

figbat said:


> Aren’t those the ones with BMW engines? Heresy!


Nope you are incorrect

What you describe is a td5 engine. Designed and built by land rover but only put into production when BMW owned the company.
BMW engines were only used in the freelanders i have a 4cyl land rover engine thanks


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## gbb (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> The reason defender was discontinued was the fact it takes a week to build one and a range rover pops out every half hour or so and is twice the price and sum.


Which emphasises the point, sales of the old Defender probably never warranted conversion into moderm mass production, what the point of making something en masse when the demand isnt there.
Conversely, the demand is there for luxury SUV (and of course, luxury comes at a price, ie more profit ) its a win win for Land Rover


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## Bonefish Blues (23 Feb 2022)

Anyhow, here's one manufacturer maintaining the heritage - if indeed it does launch - and if it sells at its 48k base price:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-ineos-grenadier-launch-july-2022-£48000#:~:text=Ineos is ramping up to,reservations tomorrow (30 September).

Trouble is Jim's iconic replacement for our British Heritage is being built elsewhere:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...british-heir-to-land-rover-defender-in-france


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## MrGrumpy (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Nope you are incorrect
> 
> What you describe is a td5 engine. Designed and built by land rover but only put into production when BMW owned the company.
> BMW engines were only used in the freelanders i have a 4cyl land rover engine thanks


Not going to get involved too much in the old v new . I like both , the old Defener was superb for what it was designed for. The new one is nice as well but as you would say you wouldn’t chuck sheet in the back of it ! However it’s extremely capable off road . Very expensive too boot but if I could afford one I’d have it ! Mind you I’m still hankering over a FFRR as well  .


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## Gunk (23 Feb 2022)

Good objective review here.


View: https://youtu.be/ZUzA4Wcvumc


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## GilesM (23 Feb 2022)

Roseland triker said:


> Junk.
> 
> There not really defender anymore


Reassuringly expensive junk, and if you ask nicely you can even put a couple of sheep in the back of mine, although I'd normally go for a muddy mtb, but hey, wtf. 
The world would be bit dull if we all liked the same stuff, but give the new one a try, you won't even need to approach the challenge with an open mind, the new defender will do the mind opening. 
I love the original defender, but the modern one is in another world, it really is zarking amazing


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## Simple Simon (25 Feb 2022)

Love my pile of junk, D200 hard top. Great on the farm, pulls a twin horse box like it’s pulling a balloon, good for a couple of hay bales or a bike in the back and ideal for the weather conditions living in the Peak District throws at me.


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## Bonefish Blues (25 Feb 2022)

Simple Simon said:


> Love my pile of junk, D200 hard top. Great on the farm, pulls a twin horse box like it’s pulling a balloon, good for a couple of hay bales or a bike in the back and ideal for the weather conditions living in the Peak District throws at me.
> View attachment 632729


Very good, but ask yourself this.

Would you push a gate open with it?*

See, the junkiest thing since Hong Kong harbour in 1857.

*Possibly the daftest test ever invented, ever!


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## GilesM (8 Mar 2022)

Simple Simon said:


> Love my pile of junk, D200 hard top. Great on the farm, pulls a twin horse box like it’s pulling a balloon, good for a couple of hay bales or a bike in the back and ideal for the weather conditions living in the Peak District throws at me.
> View attachment 632729


It looks very cool. 

Have fun


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## ChrisKz (12 Apr 2022)

My lil runaround ... Just don't ask how much i spent on Her


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## Gunk (13 Apr 2022)

ChrisKz said:


> My lil runaround ... Just don't ask how much i spent on Her



Has it got a “one life,live it” sticker?


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## Jody (13 Apr 2022)

Gunk said:


> Has it got a “one life,live it” sticker?



Dutch mountain rescue is my favourite


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## MrGrumpy (13 Apr 2022)

Jody said:


> Dutch mountain rescue is my favourite


Like that !! Might get a sticker like that for mine


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## Jody (13 Apr 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> Like that !! Might get a sticker like that for mine



Still makes me chuckle now and it's years since I saw it on a Landy


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## ChrisKz (13 Apr 2022)

Gunk said:


> Has it got a “one life,live it” sticker?


shoot No .. I have more respect for landrovers. sorry to dissapoint . I am not one of those kiddies that slaps naff stickers everywhere , or drives around in towns and cities with bush cables attached ( i just use them, if needed off roading) . Being in the countryside , only vehicle worth having is a Landy


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## derrick (13 Apr 2022)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> I saw my first one today
> It was on the forecourt of _Guy Salmon - Wakefield_ (A61 Barnsley Road) in Sandal
> 
> A big beastie, but far too flash
> ...


Another one for the little dick brigade.


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## MrGrumpy (13 Apr 2022)

derrick said:


> Another one for the little dick brigade.


Original


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## Gunk (15 Apr 2022)

ChrisKz said:


> . I am not one of those kiddies that slaps naff stickers everywhere



I counted 8


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## ChrisKz (15 Apr 2022)

Gunk said:


> I counted 8


 I was referring to naff "one life live it ", and all the usual "this way up ".. Not the bearmach advertising decals . the landrover international owners club and the winch sticker . these just came with the parts or by the Owners of Landrover outlets . Still . You may have missed one .. My disabled sticker on the rear door


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## GilesM (20 Jun 2022)

Still loving the new Defender, nearly 9,500 miles done, it really is a lot of fun to drive, it still puts a smile on my face every time I get in.

We recently went to the overland and adventure show at Stratford on Avon Race course, lots of good stuff, my better half was not up for the Unimog Motorhome conversion, but at £250k she had a point, we ended up ordering one of these:

https://www.minkcampers.com/

Pick it up in a few weeks time, never thought I'd buy a caravan, but I think it's a bit cooler than most, and should look good with the new Defender.


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## Bonefish Blues (20 Jun 2022)

As featured on Top Gear IIRC.

Anyhow, mile schmiles, how many gates have you opened with it - I understand that's the key criterion


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## GilesM (20 Jun 2022)

Bonefish Blues said:


> As featured on Top Gear IIRC.


Indeed



Bonefish Blues said:


> Anyhow, mile schmiles, how many gates have you opened with it - I understand that's the key criterion


Unfortunately none, must try harder.


----------



## Bonefish Blues (20 Jun 2022)

GilesM said:


> Unfortunately none, must try harder.



I think we know what that means about your new vehicle


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## Richard A Thackeray (20 Jun 2022)

Gunk said:


> Has it got a “one life,live it” sticker?


I've seen a *'Norfolk Mountain Rescue'* sticker, at the last show I went to, which was possibly the _'Leafers At T'Pit' _show (Caphouse Colliery, between Wakefield & Huddersfield)

On the 'MR' front, I know someone who was the chairman of '_Woodhead Mountain Rescue_', a few years ago


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## mustang1 (20 Jun 2022)

GilesM said:


> Still loving the new Defender, nearly 9,500 miles done, it really is a lot of fun to drive, it *still puts a smile on my face every time I get in.*
> 
> We recently went to the overland and adventure show at Stratford on Avon Race course, lots of good stuff, my better half was not up for the Unimog Motorhome conversion, but at £250k she had a point, we ended up ordering one of these:
> 
> ...


Good call! People underestimate the smile something (in this case, your defender) you get, a happy feeling.
BTW that trailer thing looks like a big Burley trailer for bikes (good stuff!)


----------



## GilesM (3 Sep 2022)

New defender still going strong, an amazing car, some proper off road a couple of weeks ago, sadly I didn't get as far as closing a gate but up and down slippery slopes it was impressive, nearly 15000 miles, still makes me smile every journey.


----------



## postman (3 Sep 2022)

Can you give me the address you got your defender from,I want to buy three for Leeds United.


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## GilesM (3 Sep 2022)

postman said:


> Can you give me the address you got your defender from,I want to buy three for Leeds United.


No, play football, hate Leeds, I lived in Derbyshire in the early 70s, I am a Derby supporter, does it show.


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## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2022)

GilesM said:


> New defender still going strong, an amazing car, some proper off road a couple of weeks ago, sadly I didn't get as far as closing a gate but up and down slippery slopes it was impressive, nearly 15000 miles, still makes me smile every journey.



That's approximately £3-4.2k(varying fuel price) in diesel cost for 15000 miles 
plus 5.4 metric tonnes of C02, and tens of billions of particulates 2.5um 
road VED £525 per year too

£600 for an EV to cover same distance


----------



## Jody (5 Sep 2022)

Out of interest, what MPG have you been getting Giles?


----------



## fossyant (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> That's approximately £3-4.2k(varying fuel price) in diesel cost for 15000 miles
> plus 5.4 metric tonnes of C02, and tens of billions of particulates 2.5um
> road VED £525 per year too
> 
> £600 for an EV to cover same distance



Aye, and also a stupid amount of money to purchase one.


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> That's approximately £3-4.2k(varying fuel price) in diesel cost for 15000 miles
> plus 5.4 metric tonnes of C02, and tens of billions of particulates 2.5um
> road VED £525 per year too
> 
> £600 for an EV to cover same distance



I don’t think the OP is worried too much about running costs of his Defender .  

Running costs are high for my gas guzzler as well but loads cheaper than buying a new car for now!


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> Aye, and also a stupid amount of money to purchase one.



Discovery isn't a cheap vehicle, or were you saying EVs aren't cheap?


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2022)

Jody said:


> Out of interest, what MPG have you been getting Giles?



I see quotes of around 31-33mpg for combined. No one gets those so I would expect low 20s


----------



## fossyant (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Discovery isn't a cheap vehicle, or were you saying EVs aren't cheap?



Neither is cheap. That is what I was saying.


----------



## fossyant (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I see quotes of around 31-33mpg for combined. No one gets those so I would expect low 20s



And single figures whilst playing in the mud.


----------



## Jody (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> I see quotes of around 31-33mpg for combined. No one gets those so I would expect low 20s



I thought that sounded low till I had a look and real world driving was getting 29 on the motorway from the most economical diesel


----------



## DRHysted (5 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> That's approximately £3-4.2k(varying fuel price) in diesel cost for 15000 miles
> plus 5.4 metric tonnes of C02, and tens of billions of particulates 2.5um
> road VED £525 per year too
> 
> £600 for an EV to cover same distance



What is the towing capacity of this EV?
Can it complete over 300 miles between charges when fully loaded and towing approximately 1.5 tonnes?


----------



## cougie uk (5 Sep 2022)

DRHysted said:


> What is the towing capacity of this EV?
> Can it complete over 300 miles between charges when fully loaded and towing approximately 1.5 tonnes?



I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.


----------



## MrGrumpy (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.



I’ve seen plenty EVs but all seem to be parked up charging


----------



## DRHysted (5 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.



But what is the towing capacity of the EV?
Can it complete over 300 miles between charges when fully loaded and towing approximately 1.5 tonnes?


----------



## CXRAndy (5 Sep 2022)

If you're talking of the Rivian R1T. I could easily pull 1.5ton. 

I have a 6.2ltr Raptor to pull big heavy things. But it does less than 1000 miles a year and maybe 100 miles towing


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## DRHysted (6 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> If you're talking of the Rivian R1T. I could easily pull 1.5ton.
> 
> I have a 6.2ltr Raptor to pull big heavy things. But it does less than 1000 miles a year and maybe 100 miles towing



That vehicle isn’t available in the UK.


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## CXRAndy (6 Sep 2022)

DRHysted said:


> That vehicle isn’t available in the UK.



Neither was my Raptor, but here it sits 11 years old in the UK. You can get anything


----------



## fossyant (6 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Neither was my Raptor, but here it sits 11 years old in the UK. You can get anything



I think that monster completely negates your leccy footprint within 1000 miles. Totally inappropriate vehicle for the UK, even if I think they are cool.


----------



## CXRAndy (6 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> I think that monster completely negates your leccy footprint within 1000 miles. Totally inappropriate vehicle for the UK, even if I think they are cool.



It has big cats and allegedly less polluting than fiat 500. I would swap it out If I could get a Rivian or alike? I can park it where I like, just drive over other cars


----------



## DRHysted (7 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> Neither was my Raptor, but here it sits 11 years old in the UK. You can get anything



Ahh good old imported vehicles. The necessary modifications to pass the SVA, sourcing suppliers of parts so you don’t have to import what you need, finding specialist mechanics. Been there, done that.


----------



## CXRAndy (7 Sep 2022)

I just order general spares Amazon or from USA motor factors. Stuff comes just as fast as ordering from UK. Done all my own service work on it. 11 yr old now, been very reliable. I ordered Ford diagnostic software from China, installed on my old laptop. I have full Ford dealer service info.


----------



## GilesM (26 Sep 2022)

CXRAndy said:


> That's approximately £3-4.2k(varying fuel price) in diesel cost for 15000 miles
> plus 5.4 metric tonnes of C02, and tens of billions of particulates 2.5um
> road VED £525 per year too
> 
> £600 for an EV to cover same distance



It's a petrol powered engine, not a diesel, so probably more CO2, but lower number of particulates, not sure what all that fuel has cost obviously not cheap, but quite a lot has been for work so for a significant percentage of those 15000 miles I've been paid 45p a mile.

Just think of me subsidising cheaper motoring for those who want to go electric.


----------



## GilesM (26 Sep 2022)

Jody said:


> Out of interest, what MPG have you been getting Giles?



Averaging about 23mpg.


----------



## GilesM (26 Sep 2022)

MrGrumpy said:


> I don’t think the OP is worried too much about running costs of his Defender .



Fortunately I don't, but £2 a litre for unleaded was getting a wee bit tedious.


----------



## GilesM (26 Sep 2022)

fossyant said:


> And single figures whilst playing in the mud.



But it is fun.


----------



## GilesM (26 Sep 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.



Mine does.


----------



## Jody (26 Sep 2022)

GilesM said:


> Averaging about 23mpg.



Not so bad in the scheme of things


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## Badger_Boom (1 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.





GilesM said:


> Mine does.
> 
> View attachment 662454


I passed one towing a car on a trailer yesterday, and seen a few doing the old Discovery 3/4 job of pulling small plant so they are being used for that.


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## Jameshow (1 Oct 2022)

cougie uk said:


> I've seen plenty of new defenders but not one towing anything.



One in Shipley tows tarmac contacting gear pretty swish outfit! 

Smith's tarmac


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2022)

Yesterday I finally went for my Land Rover Off Road day that came free with the New Defender, all I can now say is, the new Defender is incredible off road, and it was a fun day out. I was totally blown away.


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## fossyant (1 Dec 2022)

Hope you didn't scratch it !


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> Hope you didn't scratch it !



No scratches, just a big smile all day, and many thoughts along the lines of, did I really just drive up/down that..............


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## fossyant (1 Dec 2022)

GilesM said:


> No scratches, just a big smile all day, and many thoughts along the lines of, did I really just drive up/down that..............



Phew ! The risk of scratches would put me off ! I'd have to have an old one !


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## GilesM (1 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> Phew ! The risk of scratches would put me off ! I'd have to have an old one !



I was in one of the Land Rover Experience Defenders, but I would happily have driven my own one, and plan to take mine on some serious off roading in the new year. All of my cars end up with a few battle scars so I'm not too worried about scratches, and a Defender can be kept covered in mud, so you don't see the scratches. 
One serious improvement with the new Defender is that water doesn't come through the door seals when it's half way up the side of the doors, the engine does steam for a while once you get out of deep water though, funny watching a Range Rover Sport go through the same deep water.


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## SpokeyDokey (1 Dec 2022)

SWB definitely looks better than LWB which looks a little odd imo.


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## GilesM (2 Dec 2022)

SpokeyDokey said:


> SWB definitely looks better than LWB which looks a little odd imo.



I definitely agree, which is why I went for the SWB, however, if you often need access to the back seats, the SWB is not so practical, but it's very rare that we have more than two in ours, so the better looking car is the best choice.


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