# Do we really need to wrap new bikes in cotton wool through the winter?



## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

I bought a new bike after getting some excellent advice from the forum. I planned to use the old bike for commuting and keep the new bike for the weekend but the truth is, as soon as I sat my backside on the new bike I quickly made up my mind that I wouldn't use anything else. I give it a good clean at night and a good spray all over before putting it back in the garage but it seems this isn't enough. The rear brake started jamming on, so I put it in for its free check and it turns out it was rusting inside. The guy fixed it no problem, but his advice was not to ride it in the winter to avoid more problems. Is this a thing or would you expect a new modern bike to be able to withstand a few weeks of winter use?


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## jonny jeez (22 Mar 2017)

Utter and complete bollox.

What bike have you bought?


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Genesis Equilibrium. The bike rides great but I couldn't believe the advice. It does sit all day at work but it's in its own heated room.


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## Shut Up Legs (22 Mar 2017)

If the guy said that, then he's not a bike mechanic, but an idiot.


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Also got a bit of a row for my choice of oil on the chain. It's far too heavy apparently reducing slick gear changes and I must use his stuff. I'm not usually that gullible, but something changes in me when it comes to the bike.


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## ianrauk (22 Mar 2017)

change your bike shop


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Fair enough. Shame though, as I thought I was dealing with some good guys.


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## Drago (22 Mar 2017)

Keep it clean, spray the shiny bits with ACF or Duck Oil (GT 85 don't cut it in comparison) and enjoy the ride.

If brake pivots etc are suffering already I'd wait til the Missus is out, drag in in lounge with the work stand, and take it right down to its component parts, cleaning and properly lubing/greasing every thread, fastener, pivot and bearing as I went. Sounds like its just been assembled dry out the box by a Muppet in a hurry.


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## S-Express (22 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> and properly lubing/greasing every thread,



Not sure I'd be 'lubing/greasing every thread' as that would alter the torque specs, which on some key bolts would not be a good idea.


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> Keep it clean, spray the shiny bits with ACF or Duck Oil (GT 85 don't cut it in comparison) and enjoy the ride.
> 
> If brake pivots etc are suffering already I'd wait til the Missus is out, drag in in lounge with the work stand, and take it right down to its component parts, cleaning and properly lubing/greasing every thread, fastener, pivot and bearing as I went. Sounds like its just been assembled dry out the box by a Muppet in a hurry.


That's a distinct possibility. I have been spraying it, not quite sure what with, but it's a muck off product which I assumed was just a glorified wd40. I'll be more specific with where I'm spraying in future.


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## Drago (22 Mar 2017)

That's open to engineering debate somewhat, depending on the lube/anti seize and application, but not in the least bit insurmountable - there are tables available for each thread size and type of lube, so its just a case of being able to read and use a torque wrench (a tool you can bet the spode doing the assembly didnt use).

The bike shop have already proven a dry assembly isn't suitable, and if pivots are seizing after the first ride then threads won't be far behind them.


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Drago said:


> That's open to engineering debate somewhat, depending on the lube/anti seize and application, but not in the least bit insurmountable. The bike shop have already proven a dry assembly isn't suitable, and if pivots are seizing after the first ride then threads won't be far behind them.


Not to be pedantic, but it's not the first ride. Still only 6 to 8 weeks old and cleaned and sprayed after each ride.


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## Tin Pot (22 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> I bought a new bike after getting some excellent advice from the forum. I planned to use the old bike for commuting and keep the new bike for the weekend but the truth is, as soon as I sat my backside on the new bike I quickly made up my mind that I wouldn't use anything else. I give it a good clean at night and a good spray all over before putting it back in the garage but it seems this isn't enough. The rear brake started jamming on, so I put it in for its free check and it turns out it was rusting inside. The guy fixed it no problem, but his advice was not to ride it in the winter to avoid more problems. Is this a thing or would you expect a new modern bike to be able to withstand a few weeks of winter use?



Mine takes a battering as well, its why people started talking of winter bikes in the first place. The wet, cold, the extra oil, metal and glass on the roads, not to mention gritting if that happens near you...it all takes it's toll. 

But. 

Wrapping it up won't save it - using it and cleaning it afterwards and lubing as appropriate will keep it ship shape


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## Drago (22 Mar 2017)

That's still pretty crap. Im still riding a bike manufactured 39 years ago that hasn't corroded in that manner at a pivot point


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## Tin Pot (22 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> Not to be pedantic, but it's not the first ride. Still only 6 to 8 weeks old and cleaned and sprayed after each ride.



What brakeset?


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> Mine takes a battering as well, its why people started talking of winter bikes in the first place. The wet, cold, the extra oil, metal and glass on the roads, not to mention gritting if that happens near you...it all takes it's toll.
> 
> But.
> 
> Wrapping it up won't save it - using it and cleaning it afterwards and lubing as appropriate will keep it ship shape


Yeah, there has been a few mornings I've battled through the frost and salt. That's why I wanted a good bike though, to handle all that stuff but I take your point about cleaning and lubing. I thought I was doing OK, but I think the damage must be when it's lying at work all day. I'll probably need to start taking it in the shower with me.


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## KnackeredBike (22 Mar 2017)

For some bizarre reason I seem to find that myself and my colleagues who have knackered bikes that get left out in bike stands through the winter seem to have bikes that survive and thrive whereas my colleagues with much nicer bikes do need to break out the cotton wool and Lemsips for their bike. 

I don't know the technical reason for this but IMO any bike "mechanic" that tells you not to ride a bike instead of how to maintain a bike so that it's rideable when you want is a bit of a knob.


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## r04DiE (22 Mar 2017)

Mine is ridden all year round and it loves it


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> What brakeset?


This isn't where I bought it, but just a better link for information. 

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/...Frame_Medium?gclid=CPWX3_60x9ECFQEL0wod9jYINg


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> I bought a new bike after getting some excellent advice from the forum. I planned to use the old bike for commuting and keep the new bike for the weekend but the truth is, as soon as I sat my backside on the new bike I quickly made up my mind that I wouldn't use anything else. I give it a good clean at night and a good spray all over before putting it back in the garage but it seems this isn't enough. The rear brake started jamming on, so I put it in for its free check and it turns out it was rusting inside. The guy fixed it no problem, but his advice was not to ride it in the winter to avoid more problems. Is this a thing or would you expect a new modern bike to be able to withstand a few weeks of winter use?



I'm clearly in the minority here but I say your bike shop owner was right. Brakes contain springs that can only be made of steel. Steel can be painted or plated. Paint doesn't work on steel, so they're plated. Plating is very susceptible to rust. Salt causes rust. The bolts are also steel (Titanium on some fancy stuff) and they too will rust, at first inside the hex hole and then spreading onwards. These brakes contain bearings and all bearing balls rust. You discovered this yourself. 
The RD and FD both contain lots of steel. 
The hubs and other bits are made from polished or anodised aluminium. This develops pits in the presence of salt. 
Spokes have either aluminium or brass nipples. Aluminium and stainless steel, in the presence of salt, forms a nice galvanic battery that quickly cracks the nipples. Brass too, but much slower.
Headset bearings are sprayed by salt water coming directly off the front wheel. It rusts.
Lots of other bits and pieces corrode as well, paint and plating notwithstanding.

There is good reason why people have summer and winter bikes. 

I guess will boil down to semantics in the end and it all depends on what you asked the bike shop guy for him so say not to ride it in winter. If you asked him how you can prevent it, his answer is correct.

No amount of stuff you spray on or cleaning can negate riding in salt water. Nothing.

Salt water spray is one of the most powerful tools to test for corrosion. Usually an item will be said to be corrosion proof to "50 hours of X-temperature salt water spray."


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I'm clearly in the minority here but I say your bike shop owner was right. Brakes contain springs that can only be made of steel. Steel can be painted or plated. Paint doesn't work on steel, so they're plated. Plating is very susceptible to rust. Salt causes rust. The bolts are also steel (Titanium on some fancy stuff) and they too will rust, at first inside the hex hole and then spreading onwards. These brakes contain bearings and all bearing balls rust. You discovered this yourself.
> The RD and FD both contain lots of steel.
> The hubs and other bits are made from polished or anodised aluminium. This develops pits in the presence of salt.
> Spokes have either aluminium or brass nipples. Aluminium and stainless steel, in the presence of salt, forms a nice galvanic battery that quickly cracks the nipples. Brass too, but much slower.
> ...


That's exactly what I asked him. I'm not exactly riding on the beach or anything, but I do like to ride as much as possible in winter so inevitably I'm riding on treated roads. So is the winter bikes cheaper and tougher or just expendable?


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> That's exactly what I asked him. I'm not exactly riding on the beach or anything, but I do like to ride as much as possible in winter so inevitably I'm riding on treated roads. So is the winter bikes cheaper and tougher or just expendable?


Expendable. Also fitted with full mudguards. Obviously not as a rule, but usually. Full mudguards prevent the spray for reaching anywhere from under the saddle to the seatpost, to the brake bearings. Two-piece mudguards are still tough on brakes. Some people ride singlespeeds to work to give the salt less to chew on.


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## KnackeredBike (22 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Lots of other bits and pieces corrode as well, paint and plating notwithstanding.


Of course pieces corrode but any designer who designs a bike for anything other than a velodrome should be aware of the presence of salt and water and design a bike which (through paint, plating, materials or sheer strength) can withstand it. After all, drivers drive around in big boxes of chipped steel for years without their car falling apart.

I've just checked by rear brake which has absolutely no maintenance, no mudguards and gets all the crap thrown onto it. It has surface rust but is absolutely servicable and will be for many years because the steel springs and bolts are robust enough to withstand it. If that is possible on a £200 bike it should be easy on a £2,000 bike.


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## boydj (22 Mar 2017)

To reinforce YS' post above, if you commute in all weathers without mudguards then you'll be replacing a lot of components by the end of winter, no matter how good your cleaning / lubrication routine is.


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## Slick (22 Mar 2017)

boydj said:


> To reinforce YS' post above, if you commute in all weathers without mudguards then you'll be replacing a lot of components by the end of winter, no matter how good your cleaning / lubrication routine is.


Well, I'm commuting in your area, so if anyone knows the terrain it's you.


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## fossyant (22 Mar 2017)

So, someone is still being sold into this..... You need a ride to work bike, then a training bike, then a race bike, then at least two different MTB's.....


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Mar 2017)

KnackeredBike said:


> Of course pieces corrode but any designer who designs a bike for anything other than a velodrome should be aware of the presence of salt and water and design a bike which (through paint, plating, materials or sheer strength) can withstand it. After all, drivers drive around in big boxes of chipped steel for years without their car falling apart.
> 
> I've just checked by rear brake which has absolutely no maintenance, no mudguards and gets all the crap thrown onto it. It has surface rust but is absolutely servicable and will be for many years because the steel springs and bolts are robust enough to withstand it. If that is possible on a £200 bike it should be easy on a £2,000 bike.


As I said, semantics will kick in. Who said anything about things falling apart? Take off your car's front wheel and have a look at the mess in there. It's rust everywhere. It's not falling apart - yet. A car is easy to make look as if it is not corroded. A bike not. 

You'll need to tell us what type of plating that can be used on springs (that doesn't introduce hydrogen embrittlement) can be used on brake springs. You'll have to tell us how you prevent rust where the paint is under attack from QR teeth on the drop-outs, prevents rust. Remind us how you place a bolt so that the hex cavity is also plated? Tell us how you protect that naked little spring in the FD? Tell us how you prevent salt water entering your seat tube via the seat clamp and pool in the BB where it festers.

I'm not sure how robustness or "sheer strength" comes into play but it sounds to me that your bike is no longer pristine, thanks to salt. No bike is immune. Not even yours.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Mar 2017)

fossyant said:


> So, someone is still being sold into this..... You need a ride to work bike, then a training bike, then a race bike, then at least two different MTB's.....


No, no-one said that. The issue is, if I want a pristine bike, is it likely that it will remain pristine if I ride it to work in the winter?


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## r04DiE (22 Mar 2017)

But who wants a pristine bike? Surely we're all aware that use = wear and tear? I did 13,000km on my last bike over many winters and its still working, hasn't fallen apart, so who cares about riding in winter?


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Mar 2017)

r04DiE said:


> But who wants a pristine bike? Surely we're all aware that use = wear and tear? I did 13,000km on my last bike over many winters and its still working, hasn't fallen apart, so who cares about riding in winter?


That is a different debate.


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## r04DiE (22 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> That is a different debate.


Well, I was only answering what you said about wanting a pristine bike...


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## Fab Foodie (22 Mar 2017)

I don't see the problem having many bikes ridden for Donkey's years in all weathers. With very little TLC they all work well and look fine.
My 'best bike' is in fact my 'winter bike'.with the loveliest shiniest bits on it. The DA rear mech for example has been running in all weathers since 2004 and still polishes-up like new.
What makes it a 'winter-bike' is that it has full guards, fatter tyres and dynamo lighting than my other bikes, not the low quality of components or extra TLC.


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## gbb (22 Mar 2017)

My take on the subject as a former all year, all weather commuter, come sun, rain, slush and snow.
I did use my former good bike (at that time it was a year old) during one winter. In the following spring I found exactly what Yellow Saddle described, rusting bolts, springs...not in itself terrible but a little disheartening. Worse was the furring corrosion building up where the paint chipped off the ally frame...again, fixable but disheartening on a relatively new bike.
Worse still was finding the paint and or carbon peeling off the alloy head of my carbon /alloy forks . Corrosion obviously started in the brake caliper holes and worked it's way down. Not structural but not pleasing either.

That wasn't even a particually wet winter at that time, just residual salt for the most part.
I admit perhaps better attention to frame cleaning might have helped, but I don't abuse my bikes either,

Winter bike for me after that.


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## KnackeredBike (22 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> No bike is immune. Not even yours.


No but with pretty basic engineering you can design something to work for years or even decades within normal conditions - which with bikes would cover 40% of the year.

To bike manufacturers a bit of salt should be designed for and be resilient or repairable against in the bicyle's expected lifetime,


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## tommaguzzi (22 Mar 2017)

I ride my bike through winter, all that happens is the salt and dirt make the moving parts wear quicker. So just expect to do more maintenance and replace components sooner.


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## Tin Pot (22 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> I'll probably need to start taking it in the shower with me.



Well, leaving it in bed while you get up and leave would just be rude.


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## Vantage (22 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> No, no-one said that. The issue is, if I want a pristine bike, is it likely that it will remain pristine if I ride it to work in the winter?


If you look after it, yes.
I've never had a "summer bike". Whether they were mountain bikes being dragged through the moors in pissing rain and covered in sheep crap, road bikes through salted roads in freezing conditions or my mudguarded tourer being dragged through and covered in everything imaginable, my bikes nearly always looked in showroom condition.
Piss poor maintenance is what makes a bike look and perform rough, not the mileage or weather.


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## Tin Pot (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> This isn't where I bought it, but just a better link for information.
> 
> https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/...Frame_Medium?gclid=CPWX3_60x9ECFQEL0wod9jYINg



While everyone else is on a polemic about their worldview on winter riding...the brake calipers look to be decent or at least expensive. 

Quite a lot of questions and answers on them here:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/trp-hy-rd-cable-actuated-hydraulic-disc-brake-caliper/

Mine are regular Miche Reflex worth about £20 with the spring exposed and got through horrendous winter and 8 months long hard commuting without any special attention. The front might be going now 3.5yrs into its lifespan.

Try to look into how disc calipers can be maintained - you don't want to be shelling out £100 every few weeks!


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## slowmotion (23 Mar 2017)

If you have a nice bike, why wouldn't you want ride it, no matter what the season might be. I didn't buy mine to stick it on an altar and light candles around it when the nights get shorter.

It's just a bike.


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## mythste (23 Mar 2017)

Haaaaaang on a minute.

"rusting inside?"

We're talking a semi hydro disk brake here, and the idea that its "sticking on" could be one of two things;

1. The pistons aren't returning when the cable tension/lever is released. I seriously can't imagine that being rust
2. The cable leading to the unit has rusted/gummed up with road crap at some point

My money is almost certainly on number 2, especially after only a few weeks. I use the same units and have done in every conceivable weather for 18 months now and its caked in crap but still releases perfectly fine.


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## raleighnut (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> Genesis Equilibrium. The bike rides great but I couldn't believe the advice. It does sit all day at work but it's in its own heated room.


I don't think the heat helps, ventilation would be better.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Quite right. Never ride a bike after the clocks have gone back, unless it's on a turbo. It's madness to do so, madness I tell you. Turbo from autumn 'till spring, or the bike *will *dissolve.


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## raleighnut (23 Mar 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> Quite right. Never ride a bike after the clocks have gone back, unless it's on a turbo. It's madness to do so, madness I tell you. Turbo from autumn 'till spring, or the bike *will *dissolve.


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## Globalti (23 Mar 2017)

My choice of bike is not dictated by season but by how recently salt was spread on the roads. The regular summer bike has winter mudguards and gets washed down with hot water and car shampoo after a salty ride, wet or dry. In dry weather you ride in a cloud of salt dust which settles on every surface, attracts moisture and causes rust. Regular cleaning and greasing will stave off the inevitable.

The best bike doesn't come out until well into Spring when all the salt has been rained away.

Brake pistons don't slide through the calipers when you pull the lever, the seal flexes then returns the piston to its original position. Over the weeks as the pads wear the pistons do creep slowly through the seals.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

Vantage said:


> Piss poor maintenance is what makes a bike look and perform rough, not the mileage or weather.



No. Salt corrosion is directly related to hours of exposure. Exposure to salt-water spray is very, very damaging and is created by riding. Weather dictates presence of salt on the roads or not.

If you commute 5 times a week for one hour each way, you have ten hours of direct spray per day plus 40 hours of festering while you work. That's if you immediately wash it of perfectly when you get home. Sometimes you skip a beat and for some reason you can't wash your bike immediately and it stands, perhaps for a few days. That's not poor maintenance, that's just life.

I don't blame it all on poor maintenance.


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## Kestevan (23 Mar 2017)

I approach the issue of winter maintenance somewhat differently....It has a layer of oily grime so thick that no mere water spray, salty or otherwise could ever penetrate.

After riding home, I simply lock the winter commuter in the shed and forget about it. The chain is occasionally wiped down with an oily rag and every Autumn it gets a new chain and cassette and new brake pads/cables for the coming winter.

Doesn't look pretty, but continues to work.


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## KneesUp (23 Mar 2017)

boydj said:


> To reinforce YS' post above, if you commute in all weathers without mudguards then you'll be replacing a lot of components by the end of winter, no matter how good your cleaning / lubrication routine is.



But the question "Why on earth don't you fit mudguards?" would remain. 

I mean, I didn't have them on my road bike in 1991 because I thought they looked naff, and it didn't have eyelets - but mainly because I thought they looked naff. However, I wasn't commuting in all weathers (just for my summer job) and I was a lot younger, and cool mattered.

Unless you're racing, or are a teenager, you need guards, surely?


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I'm clearly in the minority here but I say your bike shop owner was right. Brakes contain springs that can only be made of steel. Steel can be painted or plated. Paint doesn't work on steel, so they're plated. Plating is very susceptible to rust. Salt causes rust. The bolts are also steel (Titanium on some fancy stuff) and they too will rust, at first inside the hex hole and then spreading onwards. These brakes contain bearings and all bearing balls rust. You discovered this yourself.
> The RD and FD both contain lots of steel.
> The hubs and other bits are made from polished or anodised aluminium. This develops pits in the presence of salt.
> Spokes have either aluminium or brass nipples. Aluminium and stainless steel, in the presence of salt, forms a nice galvanic battery that quickly cracks the nipples. Brass too, but much slower.
> ...


Dont wish to pick on your comment but I have ridden a low spec (£1500 when new) "summer" bike for 5 years, in all weathers over some big ol' distances, hills, potholes, laadaan roads, salt, beaches, fladers cobbles, rain, greasy rain, sideways rain, big hurty rain...you name it.

No mudguards
Race tyres
Carbon wheels

Never had a brake caliper seize, 8 weeks after a lube, assembly or ride.

Even left the bike upside down for a week at work while she waited for a spoke made of adamantium (must have been as it was so hard to bloody find).

No problems from me.


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## Rooster1 (23 Mar 2017)

Bikes are for riding, whatever the conditions. Yes, the brakes get manked up, the chains get dirtied and wet, the headsets start rusting up. You just do your utmost to care for the machine and keep it running.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

jonny jeez said:


> Dont wish to pick on your comment but I have ridden a low spec (£1500 when new) "summer" bike for 5 years, in all weathers over some big ol' distances, hills, potholes, laadaan roads, salt, beaches, fladers cobbles, rain, greasy rain, sideways rain, big hurty rain...you name it.
> 
> No mudguards
> Race tyres
> ...



Oh dear, I did predict that it will get down to semantics but this I never foresaw.

I get the "no mudguards" bit but I really struggle to figure out how race tyres, potholes, cobbles and carbon wheels affect the issue or contribute to your point. Even rain.

I think we've had good explanations for the brake caliper seizing and further speculation is just that. There's some great speculation going on the radio and TV today, if you need an example of what an unhelpful passtime it is.

I'm trying hard to fight the tide of denialist here but perhaps they can all chip in a bit and google "salt bridge"?

We've had plenty of examples on this forum of how the universal laws of physics is routinely suspended for particular individuals when mounted on certain wheels, but this is a first, the laws of chemistry being suspended for certain individuals. Perhaps you should all apply for jobs as naval architects or yacht builders.


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## jonny jeez (23 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Oh dear, I did predict that it will get down to semantics but this I never foresaw.
> 
> I get the "no mudguards" bit but I really struggle to figure out how race tyres, potholes, cobbles and carbon wheels affect the issue or contribute to your point. Even rain.
> 
> ...


Listen.

I made it clear that I wasn't trying to pick on your comment.

You reply with a facetious and frankly rude post.

You chose to take it there...not me. 

Real your neck in and consider editing your post to actually ask a question, or make a point.

Rather than try to score one.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

jonny jeez said:


> Listen.
> 
> I made it clear that I wasn't trying to pick on your comment.
> 
> ...



Listen carefully.

I reacted factually, not facetiously. You attempted to illustrate that even with race tyres, carbon wheels and potholes and different types of rain, your bikes don't experience galvanic corrosion or salt erosion. No matter how you phrased it, that's the crux of your post. It deserves challenge. How you react to that challenge is up to you. One way you could react is by explaining why you think your bike is immune to common problems. 

Please point out the rude bits.


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## Rooster1 (23 Mar 2017)

The usual willy waving starts again. Usual suspect.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> The usual willy waving starts again. Usual suspect.


The unwatch thread button is top, right hand corner.


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## Johnno260 (23 Mar 2017)

I must say, I rode my bike through the winter and the wheels are in a shocking state.

Brakes I have been lucky with, noticed some corrosion on bolts and cleaned them up it was nothing fatal, and just needed some TLC.

I can't afford a winter bike, and I will ride my bike next winter, I will just deal with the issues the time of year deals out.


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## Dogtrousers (23 Mar 2017)

I ride my bike all year round. I clean it in a half arsed manner. Bits wear out and cease to function with monotonous regularity. It's almost as bad as my body.

I agree with your mechanic, but he doesn't go far enough. If you never ride your bike _at all _it will not wear out.


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## davidphilips (23 Mar 2017)

Please point out the rude bits.[/QUOTE]

Maybe time for summer cycling?
Seen this picture, maybe there are some rude bits or maybe just some nice bits? Anyone notice the bikes if so then you must be older than me, lol have a nice day guys.


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> While everyone else is on a polemic about their worldview on winter riding...the brake calipers look to be decent or at least expensive.
> 
> Quite a lot of questions and answers on them here:
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/trp-hy-rd-cable-actuated-hydraulic-disc-brake-caliper/
> ...


Yeah, I think you might be right, just have to learn how to look after them better. They were really noisy to begin with, but after bedding them in they work well in wet conditions and have gone quiet so pretty much all good. As an aside, he did replace the cable but reckoned it wasn't the cable that was the problem.


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## Globalti (23 Mar 2017)

To add a note of curiosity to this thread, I used to own a Land Rover, a proper square one built in 1986. Anybody who has ever owned the money-pit of an old Landy will know that, being a mixture of Birmabright aluminium alloy and steel they rust for fun, especially when doused in salty water. Not only that but the designers have cleverly built in loads of cavities and traps where mud and water can collect and corrode the chassis and body. After a drive on wet winter roads I sometimes used to jet-wash the chassis and axles in despair but sticking my head in the front wheel arch i could actually SMELL the gases being given off as a by-product of the oxidation that was rampaging through the vehicle. If you've been near a car battery in bad condition you will recognise that distinctive tangy metallic odour anywhere.

Bikes in winter are suffering the same galvanic corrosion.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Globalti said:


> To add a note of curiosity to this thread, I used to own a Land Rover, a proper square one built in 1986. Anybody who has ever owned the money-pit of an old Landy will know that, being a mixture of Birmabright aluminium alloy and steel they rust for fun, especially when doused in salty water. Not only that but the designers have cleverly built in loads of cavities and traps where mud and water can collect and corrode the chassis and body. After a drive on wet winter roads I sometimes used to jet-wash the chassis and axles in despair but sticking my head in the front wheel arch i could actually SMELL the gases being given off as a by-product of the oxidation that was rampaging through the vehicle. If you've been near a car battery in bad condition you will recognise that distinctive tangy metallic odour anywhere.
> 
> Bikes in winter are suffering the same galvanic corrosion.


Yep, all of my bikes dissolve the second I ride them on wet salty roads, why only this past January, I rode home on a wet salty road, by the time I got home, I was pedalling thin air, on a saddle, gripping nothing but bar tape, ohhhhh the humanity


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## Rooster1 (23 Mar 2017)

It's more satisfying to unwatch you instead


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> It's more satisfying to unwatch you instead


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## Tin Pot (23 Mar 2017)

@Slick 

My commuter woes:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tps-commuter-maintenance.194176/


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> @Slick
> 
> My commuter woes:
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tps-commuter-maintenance.194176/


Wow, woes is the word. Funny how everyone has different ideas on how to beat the winter.


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## Alan O (23 Mar 2017)

I've read this thread with a certain amount of bemusement over some of the emotional reactions it seems to have generated, and it saddens me a little, so I hope you don't mind a few comments from an old curmudgeon with decades of cycling experience (and built on the experience of much-loved father and mother, and grandfather, who cycled their paths before me and taught me so much).

Until I returned from my break and joined in this forum, none of my family's three generations of cyclists had ever heard of the idea of having a "winter bike" because good ones are only for summer (I've never asked them, admittedly, but I know them well). Many things have changed since our old days, but I'm confident that the chemical properties of iron and aluminium have not changed much since they were first forged in those ancient supernovae.

So, a claim by a bike shop bloke that you're not supposed to ride your good bike in the winter or it will corrode is obvious nonsense.

Yes, of course, iron (steel) and aluminium will corrode, and yes, of course, salty winter slush will make that happen faster. But it's all about the rate that it happens, and what we can do to slow it.

If you want your new bike to remain in pristine showroom condition with no sign of ever being used, well, hang it up in a gallery somewhere. But if you want to ride it, and keep riding it all year round, some basic preventative maintenance should keep it going for many years, through rain, snow and salt.

I used to ride a 531 steel bike all year round, to work and back every day, including through some pretty obnoxious winter weather. My standard procedure was to always carry a can of WD40 in my bag, and if my bike got wet on the way to work or back, I'd give the exposed components (brake mechs, derrailleurs, chain) a good spray. It's not lube, it's not a long-term solution, but it appeared to work very well for displacing the water and keeping corrosion away. Then, if it had been a wet or dirty week, at the weekend I'd clean the bike properly and re-lube.

I've still got that bike, and after a bit of work on it last year, it's still going strong.

I wish my granddad was still here, because I'd love to tell him that some bike shop bloke has claimed it's normal for a new bike to rust in just a few weeks if you ride it during the winter. Unfortunately, I can't share with you my mental picture of his probable response 

Alan


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Alan O said:


> decades of cycling experience.



It's not all about the quantity that counts, it's as much about the quality



Alan O said:


> I'm confident that the chemical properties of iron and aluminium have not changed much



You'd be surprised what decades of material science based R&D have provided, in terms of alloys.



Alan O said:


> If you want your new bike to remain in pristine showroom condition with no sign of ever being used, well, hang it up in a gallery somewhere.



True



Alan O said:


> My standard procedure was to always carry a can of WD40 in my bag



Bad mistake.


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## S-Express (23 Mar 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> It's not all about the quantity that counts, it's as much about the quality



Says the man who is always banging on about his 'many years' and 'many thousands of miles' of experience 



Racing roadkill said:


> Bad mistake.



Wrong


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

As I said, amazing how different people have different beliefs about beating the winter.


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## Alan O (23 Mar 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> It's not all about the quantity that counts, it's as much about the quality


Very true, yes, and some of my experience of using my bike's autopilot to get me home after drunken evenings has definitely been of very low quality. Being serious, I'm certainly not trying to pull some sort of "experience" authority, I'm just suggesting that we can use our combined experience to counter dubious claims made by a bike shop bloke. Common sense through experience does have a part to play.



Racing roadkill said:


> You'd be surprised what decades of material science based R&D have provided, in terms of alloys.


Not surprised at all, but I doubt their properties have got worse?



Racing roadkill said:


> Bad mistake.


(Re WD40) How so?


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Alan O said:


> (Re WD40) How so?



WD 40 is a very bad idea, on any moving parts, that are exposed to any elements. It's akin to spraying the moving part with a degreaser, followed by spray glue. It's very good at producing a grinding paste, by entrapping grit and dirt, and then holding it against the surface.

WD40 have new formulations, which are far better than the original blue and yellow can with a red cap stuff, as far as bikes are concerned, this comes in a silver can, and is marked clearly as for bikes.


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> As I said, amazing how different people have different beliefs about beating the winter.


It's more amazing that there are so many people who very rarely ( if ever ) ride their bikes in poor conditions, yet think they know how to deal with a bike being used in said conditions.
I guess that's just Forums for you though. Everyone is entitled to state their case, one just has to be selective with which advice is worth paying heed to.


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## Alan O (23 Mar 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> WD 40 is a very bad idea, on any moving parts, that are exposed to any elements. It's akin to spraying the moving part with a degreaser, followed by spray glue. It's very good at producing a grinding paste, by entrapping grit and dirt, and then holding it against the surface.


Ah, yes, I understand what you mean, and it is indeed very good at attracting dirt. But I've never had any long-term problem when I've done a proper cleaning at weekends and relubed.



Racing roadkill said:


> WD40 have new formulations, which are far better than the original blue and yellow can with a red cap stuff, as far as bikes are concerned, this comes in a silver can, and is marked clearly as for bikes.


That's useful to know, thanks.

Alan


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## Racing roadkill (23 Mar 2017)

Alan O said:


> But I've never had any long-term problem when I've done a proper cleaning at weekends and relubed.



That's the key, it's fine in an emergency, but has to be removed when practicable.


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## boydj (23 Mar 2017)

I don't recall anybody mention the damage done to rims by all-weather commuting. A couple of years was all I could get on the commuter bike's rims before they were concave and needing replaced and that's with riding to anticipate traffic lights and trying to avoid any heavy braking. Wet weather riding, particularly in winter, quickly adds a grinding paste to the rim / brake block, even if you wipe them clean before or after every ride.


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## S-Express (23 Mar 2017)

Racing roadkill said:


> WD 40 is a very bad idea, on any moving parts, that are exposed to any elements. It's akin to spraying the moving part with a degreaser, followed by spray glue. It's very good at producing a grinding paste, by entrapping grit and dirt, and then holding it against the surface.



This is just absolute nonsense, sorry. It's like you made it up. Original WD is just a light mineral oil in a solvent.


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## davidphilips (23 Mar 2017)

boydj said:


> I don't recall anybody mention the damage done to rims by all-weather commuting. A couple of years was all I could get on the commuter bike's rims before they were concave and needing replaced and that's with riding to anticipate traffic lights and trying to avoid any heavy braking. Wet weather riding, particularly in winter, quickly adds a grinding paste to the rim / brake block, even if you wipe them clean before or after every ride.



Good point, what i also notice even if there some different views on both the effects and maintenance of bikes used though winter no one seems to mind to much if theres any adverse effect on the cyclist. Either there are none or the bike takes priority?


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## raleighnut (23 Mar 2017)

boydj said:


> I don't recall anybody mention the damage done to rims by all-weather commuting. A couple of years was all I could get on the commuter bike's rims before they were concave and needing replaced and that's with riding to anticipate traffic lights and trying to avoid any heavy braking. Wet weather riding, particularly in winter, quickly adds a grinding paste to the rim / brake block, even if you wipe them clean before or after every ride.


Light braking is probably the worst for wearing rims out, it's like holding an abrasive against a surface for a long time. Try waiting until you need to stop then braking normally, the pads will dry, warm up and then grip with little or no wear to the rim.


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## Tin Pot (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> As I said, amazing how different people have different beliefs about beating the winter.



It's not quite yet "Helmet Debate" territory, I put it in the same class as shared road vs seperate cycle path debate. In other words there's a few seething oldies but not enough to get a proper bar room brawl going.

Ask them about grease, go on I dare you!


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

Tin Pot said:


> It's not quite yet "Helmet Debate" territory, I put it in the same class as shared road vs seperate cycle path debate. In other words there's a few seething oldies but not enough to get a proper bar room brawl going.
> 
> Ask them about grease, go on I dare you!


Ha ha, I wouldn't dare, although I was considering trying out a spot on my spoke nipples. I'll just take a stab in the dark as to which type is best.
One thing I've decided, I haven't been out in the bike all week, so to hell with lubing and greasing, I'm taking the new bike out a spin in the morning.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> Fair enough. Shame though, as I thought I was dealing with some good guys.


@Slick having recently bought a Genesis I feel for you!
Where did you get it from? Billy Bisland or Dales?
@Yellow Saddle is dead right, I commute in all weathers, have watched two of my bikes slowly becoming rust buckets: they still go, of course, but the Genesis was too expensive to end up like that, so I will not ride it with grit on the roads.
True, one can minimize damage by rinsing and lubing after every ride, but if you are commuting you obviously can't.
My favorite bike mechanic, Katy at Freewheel North, always tells us " if you don't want your bike needing fixed, don't ride it!"



Tin Pot said:


> Wrapping it up won't save it - using it and cleaning it afterwards and lubing as appropriate will keep it ship shape


Yes, yes, I have seen your bike's pictures, immaculate she is 



Slick said:


> Yeah, I think you might be right, just have to learn how to look after them better.


When you get to work, shower the bike instead of you 



boydj said:


> I don't recall anybody mention the damage done to rims by all-weather commuting. A couple of years was all I could get on the commuter bike's rims before they were concave and needing replaced and that's with riding to anticipate traffic lights and trying to avoid any heavy braking. Wet weather riding, particularly in winter, quickly adds a grinding paste to the rim / brake block, even if you wipe them clean before or after every ride.


Eh, it's all disk brakes now.


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## Pat "5mph" (23 Mar 2017)

Slick said:


> Ha ha, I wouldn't dare, although I was considering trying out a spot on my spoke nipples. I'll just take a stab in the dark as to which type is best.
> One thing I've decided, I haven't been out in the bike all week, so to hell with lubing and greasing, I'm taking the new bike out a spin in the morning.


No grease on spoke nipples, Katy says, it attracts grime: a drop of GT85 instead.


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

Pat "5mph" said:


> @Slick having recently bought a Genesis I feel for you!
> Where did you get it from? Billy Bisland or Dales?
> @Yellow Saddle is dead right, I commute in all weathers, have watched two of my bikes slowly becoming rust buckets: they still go, of course, but the Genesis was too expensive to end up like that, so I will not ride it with grit on the roads.
> True, one can minimize damage by rinsing and lubing after every ride, but if you are commuting you obviously can't.
> ...


I went south for mine in Kilmarnock.


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## Slick (23 Mar 2017)

Pat "5mph" said:


> No grease on spoke nipples, Katy says, it attracts grime: a drop of GT85 instead.


Nice.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

S-Express said:


> This is just absolute nonsense, sorry. It's like you made it up. Original WD is just a light mineral oil in a solvent.


But but but....it says "New formulation for bikes" right there on the can?


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

Rooster1 said:


> It's more satisfying to unwatch you instead


Stay tuned then.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

Alan O said:


> So, a claim by a bike shop bloke that you're not supposed to ride your good bike in the winter or it will corrode is obvious nonsense.



and 



Alan O said:


> Yes, of course, iron (steel) and aluminium will corrode, and yes, of course, salty winter slush will make that happen faster. But it's all about the rate that it happens, and what we can do to slow it.



Don't you see the contradiction in your two adjacent sentences in your post. Does the bike corrode or not? 



Alan O said:


> I used to ride a 531 steel bike all year round, to work and back every day, including through some pretty obnoxious winter weather. My standard procedure was to always carry a can of WD40 in my bag, and if my bike got wet on the way to work or back, I'd give the exposed components (brake mechs, derrailleurs, chain) a good spray. It's not lube, it's not a long-term solution, but it appeared to work very well for displacing the water and keeping corrosion away. Then, if it had been a wet or dirty week, at the weekend I'd clean the bike properly and re-lube.



Obnoxious weather has nothing to do with the corrosion we're talking about. It is wet, salty roads or even dry salty roads as Globalti rightfully pointed out. Emotional words like obnoxious doesn't strengthen your case. Further, oily sprays will help but spraying that stuff over your brakes (where the corrosion in question started off with) when you still consider to ride that bike back home is just not practical. Maybe back in the good old days of three generations of forefathers when brakes used to be spoon brakes, yes. Nowadays it is not practical or safe. I don't think suggesting riding around with a can of magic spray is the answer and certainly not a sensible suggestion. I don't think you really did it. 



Alan O said:


> I've still got that bike, and after a bit of work on it last year, it's still going strong.


What does that actually mean? Going strong? Is there corrosion or not? Did you ride it in salt water or not?



Alan O said:


> I wish my granddad was still here, because I'd love to tell him that some bike shop bloke has claimed it's normal for a new bike to rust in just a few weeks if you ride it during the winter. Unfortunately, I can't share with you my mental picture of his probable response.



Well, if he was the clever and wise man I imagine he was, he'll be quick to ask you if our generation ever solved the problem of:

1) Melting the invisible coating of ice on roads.
2) Braking with hard rubber blocks on rusty chromed steel rims
3) Preventing water from just pouring into BBs without any seals
4) Removing rusty cotter pins
5) Changing gears without flipping the back wheel around.
6) Carrying a pocketable device that can spray light oil on all bike components.

He may even tell you that nostalgia isn't all it was cut out to be, if he's kind.

This bonhomie and good old days stuff is nice for a sunny day with a glass of wine, but this is a technical discussion and the problem is: salt makes bikes corrode.


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## KneesUp (23 Mar 2017)

My dad commuted on the same bike every working day for the best part of a decade, and I never saw him do anything other than change the brake blocks. I have that bike now, it's in my shed and it's largely original. I took the BB out as it was a bit rough, and that was pretty much gone, but everything else worked. It has the original cranks and chainwheels, the original derallieurs; tt even has one of the Mavic Module E rims he bought as an upgrade, even that must have done a good 6 or 7 years commuting duties. He used to work near a bike shop, so I presume he got them to change the chain and the sprockets once or twice, but other than that, a bit of 3 in 1 oil, some bar tape and a new saddle it's the same bike he bought in 1979. Bikes are quite tough machines.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Mar 2017)

KneesUp said:


> My dad commuted on the same bike every working day for the best part of a decade, and I never saw him do anything other than change the brake blocks. I have that bike now, it's in my shed and it's largely original. I took the BB out as it was a bit rough, and that was pretty much gone, but everything else worked. It has the original cranks and chainwheels, the original derallieurs; tt even has one of the Mavic Module E rims he bought as an upgrade, even that must have done a good 6 or 7 years commuting duties. He used to work near a bike shop, so I presume he got them to change the chain and the sprockets once or twice, but other than that, a bit of 3 in 1 oil, some bar tape and a new saddle it's the same bike he bought in 1979. Bikes are quite tough machines.


OK, you're a good one to ask then. What do you think it was that prevented that bike from corrosion in the usual-suspect spots mentioned earlier on in this thread? Was it indeed used on salted roads? You have the bike on hand, so it will make a great reference. It would help if we could understand the construction of this bike.
1) Does it have a chainstay bridge and if so, is it drilled?
2) What type of brakes does it have?
3) Are the spokes galvanised steel or stainless?
4) Are the nipples brass or steel? (assuming not aluminium due to the date)
5) Can the nipples still turn?
6) Is it a bushingless chain or not?
7) What type of gear mechanism?
8) Mudguards?
9) Cable actuated gears/brakes?
10) Stainless or galvanised cables? 
11) Plastic lining in the cables?
12) Sealed BB or open type?
13) Cranks? Chromed steel or alu?Chromed or painted?
14) Hubs: Steel or alu? What type of seals on the bearings?
15) Frame: Where, if any does the paint blister from rust?
16) Seatpost: Is it chromed steel. Can it still move up and down? Is the seat clamp still operational?


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## KneesUp (23 Mar 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> OK, you're a good one to ask then. What do you think it was that prevented that bike from corrosion in the usual-suspect spots mentioned earlier on in this thread? Was it indeed used on salted roads? You have the bike on hand, so it will make a great reference. It would help if we could understand the construction of this bike.
> 1) Does it have a chainstay bridge and if so, is it drilled?
> 2) What type of brakes does it have?
> 3) Are the spokes galvanised steel or stainless?
> ...



1 - yes, yes
2 crappy Weinman ones (I've bought some early 105 callipers to replace them)
3 no idea
4 no idea
5 no idea
6 it doesn't have one at the moment - as mentioned I'm sure that has been changed over the years though
7 Sachs Huret 10 speed





8 Yes
9 Yes
10 no idea - I expect these are not 40 years old though ...
11 no
12 open, but as stated, pitted and worn axle
13 Aluminium - Stronglight 52/42
14 would have to look - one is (I think) from my bike from when I was a teenager. I used to 'borrow' the wheels of my dad's if I had a puncture once he'd changed jobs and didn't cycle so often
15 Steel frame. Paint blistered all over perhaps as a function of the garage it was kept in. I used to hang my bike from the rafters so it didn't get scratched. 
16 steel - it moves and clamps. The stem does not move though.

It's actually a 1982 bike - I misremembered.


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2017)

Ultimately I think this thread is about the bike shop bloke's glib comment vs. the pragmatic view of bikes as a tool. 

I can hear the probably young shop assistant expressing horror at the idea of exposing one's best bike to salt and I completely sympathise with this attitude, I have a valuable race bike and I simply wouldn't dream of riding it in salty or even wet conditions, it's too beautiful and perfect to be dirtied and rusted and I need it to last a good many years.

OTOH I have an all-weather bike that has lightweight mudguards in winter and that has to cope with everything it encounters on the road. I do clean it after a muddy or salty ride but I can see the steady deterioration.

Bear in mind also that in these litigious times local authorities are probably salting roads more than they did when some contributors were riding regularly.


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## slowmotion (24 Mar 2017)

Isn't it just a question of the type of person that you are? Some are tidy, organised and like things to be just so. I'm a slob and always in a bit of a hurry as a result. The tools I own are not clean but they are used. When one dies, I get another without keening over the tragedy.


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## Globalti (24 Mar 2017)

Been thinking about this since my last post and I reckon the obsession with cleanliness and purity is the same part of cycling lore as the obsession with clean matching kit and leg shaving. As Matt Seaton writes in his excellent book The Escape Artist, if you turned up for a race with hairy legs you'd be laughed out of the peloton; the same would apply if you turned up on a bike that was anything less than pristine.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Mar 2017)

Just by the by, all this talk of salty roads needs to be taken with a pinch of ... er ... salt.

This winter has been quite mild down here in the SE and gritters have been a rarity. I do realise that in the grim hinterland and on the coast things may be a bit different.


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## Mo1959 (24 Mar 2017)

I know we have become a throw away society and shouldn't encourage it, but I sometimes think it's quite nice to keep a really nice bike for the dry days and have something a lot cheaper for the wet, mucky days knowing that it is almost as cheap just to replace it in two or three years rather than spending any more on it.


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## kingrollo (24 Mar 2017)

Brought a used giant defy of ebay for £250. - I can put mudguards and any array of lights racks and things - that I just wouldn't want to do to my best bike. I would expect things to wear out quicker on this bike - partly because of the weather - and partly because of the nature of commuting, lots of braking, clicking in and out.
I could ride to work on my best bike - but feel a used cheaper bike is a more appropriate tool for the job.

I wouldn't wrap a best bike in cotton wool though - they are meant to ridden.


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## KneesUp (24 Mar 2017)

kingrollo said:


> Brought a used giant defy of ebay for £250. - I can put mudguards and any array of lights racks and things - that I just wouldn't want to do to my best bike. I would expect things to wear out quicker on this bike - partly because of the weather - and partly because of the nature of commuting, lots of braking, clicking in and out.
> I could ride to work on my best bike - but feel a used cheaper bike is a more appropriate tool for the job.
> 
> I wouldn't wrap a best bike in cotton wool though - they are meant to ridden.


Expecting things to wear out more when they are used more is fairly logical though?

I understand the idea of having a 'best' that you keep clean and so on. I have a suit in my wardrobe - it comes out for funerals these days. I wouldn't do the gardening in it - and I suppose the reason is that it wouldn't fulfil a key part of it's function if I did. My suit has a few jobs:

1) to cover the parts of me that are societally unacceptable to expose in public
2) to provide a degree of warmth
3) to 'look smart' and indicate externally that I respect the occasion I am attending

If I also wore it for gardening, it would most likely not fulfil criteria 3, so I wear old jeans and jumpers in the garden - knackered old clothes with tears and stains from DIY and gardening.

I guess for some, their bike has roles akin to a suit - it's important to them that it looks 'right' either to send a message to others, or for their own benefit. I suppose part of wearing a suit is also to make you feel like you fit in?

To others, their bike is like my gardening clothes - it' already less than perfect, so just use it until it's beyond useful or repair.

And for yet others - and I include myself in this - the bike is 'smart casual' - not precious, not pristine, but functional in most circumstances.


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## kingrollo (24 Mar 2017)

KneesUp said:


> *Expecting things to wear out more when they are used more is fairly logical though?*
> 
> .



Yes - (I wasn't aware that I had indicated or implied otherwise ?)


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## Johnno260 (24 Mar 2017)

with my job we deal with off shore sites so salt spray testing is a big deal with what we do.

Now Alu parts can be painted/coated/anodised etc for protection, the irridite coating we use for Alu I think most would dis-like as it stains the Alu a urine yellow colour! a hard black anodise would work for most.

With steel parts we use 316 and 316L very costly and heavy, but durable, we also electro-polish or passivate steel parts for additional protection, not sure these solutions would work on a spring as an example, but bolts etc you could spend more on these or titanium.

I do ride my bike in the winter, but I don't commute, and I will not ride if there is a hint of ice, but the bikes cleaned/lubed after each ride, and I still have issues, but as I stated before it's a trade off, I wouldn't use a turbo as I would get bored, as long as the frame and bolt threads are fine I can cope.

Some threads I protected with a small amount of copper grease.


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## Slick (24 Mar 2017)

Globalti said:


> Ultimately I think this thread is about the bike shop bloke's glib comment vs. the pragmatic view of bikes as a tool.
> 
> I can hear the probably young shop assistant expressing horror at the idea of exposing one's best bike to salt and I completely sympathise with this attitude, I have a valuable race bike and I simply wouldn't dream of riding it in salty or even wet conditions, it's too beautiful and perfect to be dirtied and rusted and I need it to last a good many years.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention the gritters, as I was paying a lot more attention to the terrain I was covering and despite it being only-2 when I left the house this morning the salt was thick on some parts of the road. I started to think that it's probably as much about the timing of our trips as anything else. It looked very much that I was the first vehicle to go over this salt since it was laid. I could be wrong, but I scrubbed the bike once home and sprayed the moving parts, so fingers crossed.


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## boydj (24 Mar 2017)

raleighnut said:


> Light braking is probably the worst for wearing rims out, it's like holding an abrasive against a surface for a long time. Try waiting until you need to stop then braking normally, the pads will dry, warm up and then grip with little or no wear to the rim.


You misunderstand. I'm not talking about lightly dragging the brakes, but about reading the road ahead and minimising the need to use the brakes. I had 32 sets of lights on my commute and I would generally try to avoid having to stop. Clearly the heavier the traffic, the greater the need for speed adjustments, but riding to the conditions can still avoid lots of use of the brakes.


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## Globalti (25 Mar 2017)

My strategy for reducing wear on the rims in wet gritty weather is to use only the front brake, always bearing in mind the possibility of causing the front wheel to wash out. The front wheel gets hardly any water and grit whereas the rear is always filthy, which is why the rear rim and pads wear faster. When front wheel only braking I allow my weight to transfer forward and I only do it in a straight line.


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## ColinJ (25 Mar 2017)

Globalti said:


> My strategy for reducing wear on the rims in wet gritty weather is to use only the front brake, always bearing in mind the possibility of causing the front wheel to wash out. The front wheel gets hardly any water and grit whereas the rear is always filthy, which is why the rear rim and pads wear faster. When front wheel only braking I allow my weight to transfer forward and I only do it in a straight line.


I have been riding my Cannondale more than usual over the winter, but I took its usual Campagnolo Neutron front wheel out and replaced it with a much cheaper Khamsin. I do most of my braking at the front anyway. I'll put the Neutron back in soon.


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## raleighnut (25 Mar 2017)

boydj said:


> You misunderstand. I'm not talking about lightly dragging the brakes, but about reading the road ahead and minimising the need to use the brakes. I had 32 sets of lights on my commute and I would generally try to avoid having to stop. Clearly the heavier the traffic, the greater the need for speed adjustments, but riding to the conditions can still avoid lots of use of the brakes.


Fair enough.


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