# Sick of cars! Lack of indicating, pavement mounting,lazy drivers etc etc



## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

Ok some will say this another thread about me Accy Cyclist rather than about things in general. but i'm sat here bored,a little depressed and in some pain, so why not start a thread? If you don't want to read it or contribute please ignore it and don't get personal.

I'm sick of cars and the way they'r being driven. There are so many on the road and it's only going to get worse. Don't tell me they're all doing necessary journeys and they have to go by car, because i can't accept it. Cars are being driven just for the sake of it. For example the tool next door to me drives his car everyday of the year, even Christmas Day. Why you may ask? Because he thinks the bugger will seize up if it's not moved everyday maybe? The other day i was waiting to cross a road. It took me 5 bloody minutes, even then i had to peg it as the traffic only stopped passing for a few seconds. Have you ever been out walking and thought to yourself what's that noise? Then you realise that "noise" is silence? When the traffic stops it seems so weird.
I fear that i'll be hit by a car when i'm out walking or cycling. Especially now that not using indicators and mounting the pavement has become socially acceptable. Another example of horrible driving happened the other day when a car mounted the pavement. The driver had about half his car on the pavement when he approached me. He pipped his horn at me. I indicated to him to wind the window down. What are you using your horn for i asked. You're in my way, i want to get my car fully on the pavement so i can unload some stuff into my house he replied. This dick actually thought he had the right to make a pedestrian walking on a pavement move for so he could park his car fully on that pavement! 


Your thoughts about the number of cars and how they're being driven please!


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## macp (8 Sep 2016)

Firstly sorry you are in pain hope it stops soon. I agree traffic is increasing massively year on year it gets me a little sad when some of the once quiet back lanes are now busy with cars as another new estate has been built eating into the lovely green landscape (NIMBY moi ?). I also agree a lot of dicks on the road with no real idea how they could easily kill/destroy a cyclist. I try to be aware of traffic around me and ride defensively but honestly I have stopped caring so much about whether somebody will hit me. I used to get obsessive about that but it made me tense and I could not concentrate.


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## iggibizzle (8 Sep 2016)

Itl soon be quicker to walk 5 miles than drive. In my town anyway (Blackpool). Utter traffic chaos at all times. No one needs to drive everywhere. (Apart from some obvious exceptions)


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## Starchivore (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Have you ever been out walking and thought to yourself what's that noise? Then you realise that "noise" is silence? When the traffic stops it seems so weird. I



Haha I can relate to that- I genuinely do notice and think to myself "wow what is that...?" before realising it's just the absence of that omni-present hum and vrum of huge steel boxes chugging up and down the road!

There are some temporary lights that have been up near me while a road is being repaired. Me and a friend cycle that way on our way to 5-a-side each week. Because of the lights (they take a long time to change), shortly after going through we get several minutes with no cars passing at all and can cycle side by side and chat, on the main road, which is nice and very unusual.


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Sep 2016)

This last couple of weeks in and around Manchester have been dickhead central.

I don't normally get riled or take it to heart but I think the council have been putting something in the water supply recently to bring out drivers inner daffodil.


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## macp (8 Sep 2016)

I find myself getting annoyed when I hear a car coming up behind me on what always used to be a very quiet lane in the middle of nowhere. "where the fook are you going and why are you going this way".


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

macp said:


> Firstly sorry you are in pain hope it stops soon. I agree traffic is increasing massively year on year it gets me a little sad when some of the once quiet back lanes are now busy with cars as another new estate has been built eating into the lovely green landscape (NIMBY moi ?). I also agree a lot of dicks on the road with no real idea how they could easily kill/destroy a cyclist. I try to be aware of traffic around me and ride defensively but honestly I have stopped caring so much about whether somebody will hit me. I used to get obsessive about that but it made me tense and I could not concentrate.



On the subject of new estates. In the nearby borough of Ribble Valley they're building something like 350 houses over 3 years. It's still a favourite area for cyclists because of the quiet roads and views, but i've noticed in the last year how those quiet roads are becoming less quiet. If you look at the drives on these new estates they all seem to have 2 or 3 cars. Once of a day you could pull out safely from the kerb on a bike in a few seconds but now you have to wait a lot longer as the traffic just seems to b a non stop convoy.


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

macp said:


> I find myself getting annoyed when I hear a car coming up behind me on what always used to be a very quiet lane in the middle of nowhere. "where the fook are you going and why are you going this way".


I thought it was only me who asks that question in my head when annoyed with the traffic. Yes, where the hell are you going and couldn't you walk, cycle or catch a bus there you lazy git i ask??


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

iggibizzle said:


> Itl soon be quicker to walk 5 miles than drive. In my town anyway (Blackpool). Utter traffic chaos at all times. No one needs to drive everywhere. (Apart from some obvious exceptions)



My mum was in Blackpool hospital early this year. I decided to park up somewhere and walk to the hospital rather than use their car park. The nearest parking space was a mile away! All around the zoo and Stanley Park is chocker!!


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## macp (8 Sep 2016)

User13710 said:


> It's probably a window cleaner on his way to clean someone's windows.


If it were that would be fair enough but I personally have not yet seen a pair of ladders atop the said vehicles. Unless they are specialising in bungalows


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## Globalti (8 Sep 2016)

It sounds as if you are spending too much time amongst the motorised dickheads in Accrington. Why not head out (once you're feeling better) into the country? A fellow Accrington resident of yours has this website; take a bit of time to feast your eyes on the stunning photos he's taken all around your area:

http://www.idonohoe.com/moorland-gallery.htm

Edit: I'm in one of those pictures; it was taken a long time ago. I'll give you a clue: Kona!


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

User13710 said:


> It's probably a window cleaner on his way to clean someone's windows.




Yes but that'd probably be a necessary journey. I don't suppose that you've ever carried a 17kg 9 foot ladder, a full bucket and an extension pole very far.


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## Tim Hall (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> My mum was in Blackpool hospital early this year. I decided to park up somewhere and walk to the hospital rather than use their car park. The nearest parking space was a mile away! All around the zoo and Stanley Park is chocker!!


Given that you're complaining about too many cars on the road, why didn't you cycle there?


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

Tim Hall said:


> Given that you're complaining about too many cars on the road, why didn't you cycle there?




It was in January during an icy spell. I didn't want to join her in the hospital. I've cycled there since.


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## iggibizzle (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> My mum was in Blackpool hospital early this year. I decided to park up somewhere and walk to the hospital rather than use their car park. The nearest parking space was a mile away! All around the zoo and Stanley Park is chocker!!



That's actually a pretty traffic free area. But yea nowhere to park for a long way around the hospital!


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## snorri (8 Sep 2016)

Buses to/from Blackpool Hospital
http://www.bfwh.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Bus-routes-to-BVH.pdf


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## Oldfentiger (8 Sep 2016)

I'll add a rant to this too, because I see it often.
Looked in my rear view mirror yesterday, and there was a 2016 Range Rover up my jacksie.
Up my jacksie because how could I have the temerity to be in his way, impeding his illegally quick progress.
Then I noticed the mobile phone being held next to his left ear.
WHY FFS??????
Buy an £80 - odd grand car, which is equipped with bluetooth, and drive along at stupid speeds while holding a phone to the ear.
See it all the time in expensive cars.
Send 'em to the Tower, I say.


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## Yellow Saddle (8 Sep 2016)

I'm in the market for an N+1 car. I'm considering one of them baby 4x4s, pavement climbers I think they call them. Any suggestions?


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## pauldavid (8 Sep 2016)

I can't comment on drivers who don't indicate, mount pavements etc as that is not me as a rule and I try to drive in a legal and considerate manner.

However, I can comment on why I make so many car journeys.

It is mainly because I enjoy driving in the same way that on another day I may enjoy riding my bike. Sometimes I'm driving to nowhere just because I can and I enjoy, when I go out on my bike I generally ride to nowhere in particular as well.

So in summary, I can drive if I want to in the same way you can ride when you want to and it's none of your business where I'm going



macp said:


> I find myself getting annoyed when I hear a car coming up behind me on what always used to be a very quiet lane in the middle of nowhere. "where the fook are you going and why are you going this way".


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## Nigel-YZ1 (8 Sep 2016)

Schools are back. Time to dive for cover as the mobile phone driven faux x 4 dimwits resurface.


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## tyred (8 Sep 2016)

Cars aren't a problem, it's people. Anyone know where I can buy a desert island and get away from the maddening crowd?


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Sep 2016)

Owning, operating and leaving your car in public spaces is a human right surely? 

I own and operate a wardrobe. Do you think I could 'park' it in the street?

PS people who ride bikes instead of driving cars are weird.


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## Dan B (8 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> It is mainly because I enjoy driving in the same way that on another day I may enjoy riding my bike. Sometimes I'm driving to nowhere just because I can and I enjoy, when I go out on my bike I generally ride to nowhere in particular as well.
> 
> So in summary, I can drive if I want to in the same way you can ride when you want to and it's none of your business where I'm going


I see no problem with that _per se_, but where did you get a car that runs on water?


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## jonny jeez (8 Sep 2016)

tyred said:


> Cars aren't a problem, it's people. Anyone know where I can buy a desert island and get away from the maddening crowd?


fill your SPD boots!

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/areas/britishcolumbia


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## Dan B (8 Sep 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> I own and operate a wardrobe. Do you think I could 'park' it in the street?


and if it gets scratched by a passerby when you have done, could you claim it on insurance?


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## Gixxerman (8 Sep 2016)

Totally agree. There is a woman 2 doors down from me who seemingly drives everywhere. A few weeks back, I was doing a bit of gardening in my front garden. In the 2 hours that I was out there she must have made at least 5 short journeys, where she was gone for less than 10 minutes on most of them.


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## jonny jeez (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Ok some will say this another thread about me Accy Cyclist rather than about things in general. but i'm sat here bored,a little depressed and in some pain, so why not start a thread? If you don't want to read it or contribute please ignore it and don't get personnel. I'm sick of cars and the way they'r being driven. There are so many on the road and it's only going to get worse. Don't tell me they're all doing necessary journeys and they have to go by car, because i can't accept it. Cars are being driven just for the sake of it. For example the tool next door to me drives his car everyday of the year, even Christmas Day. Why you may ask? Because he thinks the bugger will seize up if it's not moved everyday maybe? The other day i was waiting to cross a road. It took me 5 bloody minutes, even then i had to peg it as the traffic only stopped passing for a few seconds. Have you ever been out walking and thought to yourself what's that noise? Then you realise that "noise" is silence? When the traffic stops it seems so weird. I fear that i'll be hit by a car when i'm out walking or cycling. Especially now that not using indicators and mounting the pavement has become socially acceptable. Another example of horrible driving happened the other day when a car mounted the pavement. The driver had about half his car on the pavement when he approached me. He pipped his horn at me. I indicated to him to wind the window down. What are you using your horn for i asked. You're in my way, i want to get my car fully on the pavement so i can unload some stuff into my house he replied. This dick actually thought he had the right to make a pedestrian walking on a pavement move for so he could park his car fully on that pavement!
> 
> 
> Your thoughts about the number of cars and how they're being driven please!


I suspect, right now, you just have a bit too much time on your hands to get wound up with "stuff".

its kind of natural.

let it go. and get well soon.


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## User16625 (8 Sep 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I'm in the market for an N+1 car. I'm considering one of them baby 4x4s, pavement climbers I think they call them. Any suggestions?



Crucifixion, gas chamber, firing squad, the pendulum, cremation


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

10 yards from my house is a row of 5 shops with a parking bay outside. 20 yards further on is a car park (pay obviously). Cars mount the pavement outside my house so they can visit the shops. "Why are you parking across my drive?". "Because I'll only be 20 seconds and anyway you don't have a dropped kerb (says the occasional smart arse)". "It's still illegal in London to park with two wheels on the pavement unless clearly signed that this is permissible and there's a car park just down there". "I'm not paying to park for 30 secs". "Well it'll cost you £60 when I send a photo of your car to the council". 

I actually had one woman pull into my driveway and park. That didn't end well for her.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

User said:


> Did it end with you saying "You're my wife now"?


Errr no!!! She was stoopid. I need (and have) an intelligent partner to do the thinking for the household


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## BorderReiver (8 Sep 2016)

Driving (often badly) is seen as a right rather than a privilege. The driving test needs to be made harder and repeated at regular intervals (10 years? 5 years?). It should also be a requirement to pass a medical- a proper one, not just to see if you are still upright and warm. Simple way to reduce the number of drivers on the road and improve the quality of the ones that are left.


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## jayonabike (8 Sep 2016)

User said:


> Do you do it thusly?
> View attachment 143183


That can't be Accys bike, it's upright.


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## Profpointy (8 Sep 2016)

martint235 said:


> Errr no!!! She was stoopid. I need (and have) an intelligent partner to do the thinking for the household



There was a tale from another newsgroup (appologies if it was someone here) where the poster owned an old scammell or some such army truck and someone parked across his drive "for only a minute". His response was "up to you mate" and he let the handbrake off and climbed out of the cab as the truck very slowly satrted to roll down the drive. The parked car was moved pretty quickly.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> There was a tale from another newsgroup (appologies if it was someone here) where the poster owned an old scammell or some such army truck and someone parked across his drive "for only a minute". His response was "up to you mate" and he let the handbrake off and climbed out of the cab as the truck very slowly satrted to roll down the drive. The parked car was moved pretty quickly.


I'm a poor civil servant, my drive isn't big enough for a Scammell.


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## pauldavid (8 Sep 2016)

Dan B said:


> I see no problem with that _per se_, but where did you get a car that runs on water?



I havent got a car that runs on water, but you already knew that your just being a bit of an smarty!

It runs on good old fashioned fossil fuels, and it runs lovely thank you.


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## Brandane (8 Sep 2016)

Gixxerman said:


> Totally agree. There is a woman 2 doors down from me who seemingly drives everywhere. A few weeks back, I was doing a bit of gardening in my front garden. In the 2 hours that I was out there she must have made at least 5 short journeys, where she was gone for less than 10 minutes on most of them.


Drug dealer delivering her phone orders? She could always do it by bike, but is that tax deductible?


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## Gixxerman (8 Sep 2016)

Brandane said:


> Drug dealer delivering her phone orders? She could always do it by bike, but is that tax deductible?


If she was driving a black BMW I would tend to agree. But it is a blue Corsa, and she must be 60-odd years old. Maybe the drugs are sonatogen?


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## Brandane (8 Sep 2016)

Gixxerman said:


> Maybe the drugs are sonatogen?


It's good sh!t, that sanatogen .


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## tyred (8 Sep 2016)

This thread reminds me I must book the Lamborghini in for a service. There is a little hesitation when you floor it above 100MPH.


Gixxerman said:


> If she was driving a black BMW I would tend to agree. But it is a blue Corsa, and she must be 60-odd years old. Maybe the drugs are sonatogen?



It's really irritating when you leave your lovely Corsa in for a service and you get a BMW courtesy car.


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## r04DiE (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> ...don't get personnel.


To do what?


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## Psycolist (8 Sep 2016)

It's coincidental that I have seen this thread today. I was driven to a funeral today by an old work colleague. I noticed while making our way out of town, that he was very competent at letting other traffic know what his intentions were. Eye contact, indicators and general road positioning. I commented to him that as a cyclist I found drivers not doing so well in this area when driving around our town centre. It turned out that he had recently been on a "driving awareness course" that avoided him getting points on his licence. His view was, that as with everything in life, 'familiarity breeds contempt' and that people doing a regular short journey, that is repeated many times, tend to switch off their normal driving skills and rely on instinct to get them to and fro. This is born out by statistics showing that the majority of minor RTA's happen within 3 miles of the home address. He was very open about him being one of these 'robots', as he put it, until the shock of being found speeding, made him realise what he was doing. The cyclist, being so vulnerable, may not be so liable to fall into this trance like state, but with so many journeys taken by car being with only the driver on board, I can understand how this is happening. I can be at work all day, and be on automatic pilot, with out really having to think about what I am doing, I can get through an entire days work, and then when asked what I have been doing today by Mrs Psycolist, often, cant tell her a dam thing I did. I have never been a car driver, but I see this type of driving in family members and friends all the time. I usually try to bring it into the conversation without appearing to be judgemental, but it never really seems to sink in or have any lasting effect. When I ride my bike, I ALWAYS make sure other road users and pedestrians know what I am intending, where I am going, and I try to make sure, with eye contact, that they have seen me. I still have cars pull out on me as though I am invisible, pedestrians walk off the pavement in front of me, and have their dogs and/children to walk into my path of travel. When riding, road, trail or cycle path, I have learned to assume that every one else is a d%*k head, that they do not know what they are doing, or where they are going, and to expect the unexpected. 50 years of riding, off and on, and I am still in one piece, just about.


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## gavroche (8 Sep 2016)

Not too bad here in Wales, apart from the A55 at 5pm or week ends when all townies from Liverpool and Manchester invade us.


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

An elderly disabled woman i know rides around on a mobility scooter. One of her routes is constantly blocked by some staff who work at a car home. It's a busy road so they say they have to park their vehicles on the pavement to save their wing mirrors and stuff,even though most leave their mirrors out. One day she saw a gap on the pavement so she tried to squeeze through, scratching a car as she did so. The owner of the car saw her scratch his car. He ran out threatening this and that, demanding her name and address. I told her to contact the police and see what they said. According to her they said she'd done nothing wrong as the car shouldn't have been blocking a public highway. So why are they still using the pavement next to the care home as a car park?


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## MarquisMatsugae (8 Sep 2016)

I think this should go to a Poll


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## screenman (8 Sep 2016)

martint235 said:


> I'm a poor civil servant, my drive isn't big enough for a Scammell.



Mine is big enough for 10 of them, but if I left the hanbrake off they would not move, the joys of Lincolnshire.


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## screenman (8 Sep 2016)

I find it funny that many who own a car do not see themselves as part of the problem.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

screenman said:


> I find it funny that many who own a car do not see themselves as part of the problem.


That's the same for everything though. People don't like airports but want to fly cheaply to the Med. I've actually seen protests against mobile phone masts run by mobile phone


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

screenman said:


> I find it funny that many who own a car do not see themselves as part of the problem.




I own a car but it hasn't moved for three weeks. i can honestly say that if i didn't need a car to carry my ladders and stuff to and from work i would not bother having one. I've even thought about a type of barrow to push my stuff around but most of my work is around 5 miles from home and it's very hilly where i work. I probably do less than 3000 miles a year driving.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

User said:


> No, that was an episode of Gavin and Stacey.


No unfortunately it wasn't. It was around the corner from me


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## Ihatehills (8 Sep 2016)

@Accy cyclist I'm genuinely interested in your solution to the growing traffic problem. I think that your perception of everyone just driving around for shoots and giggles is skewed. I personally cycle commute but as I work three miles from my front door it's no biggie but my OH has a 17 mile commute, whilst not impossible there's no chance that I would do this on a bike regularly.


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## Pat "5mph" (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> I thought it was only me who asks that question in my head when annoyed with the traffic. Yes, where the hell are you going and couldn't you walk, cycle or catch a bus there you lazy git i ask??


Sometimes I have a very early Sunday morning shift. I look forward to that commute because I like to take the road all the way when it's quiet, not the cycle path.
If there are come cars than usual I ask the same question - to myself really - what are you doing driving at 6am on a Sunday morning???
They are probably going to work, like me


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## macp (8 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> I can't comment on drivers who don't indicate, mount pavements etc as that is not me as a rule and I try to drive in a legal and considerate manner.
> 
> However, I can comment on why I make so many car journeys.
> 
> ...


Yup well I suppose I asked for that but really my comment was directed at those used to be oh so quiet traffic free country lanes.


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## simongt (8 Sep 2016)

Maybe it's simply a question of balance. My big bugbear is vehicles that don't bother signalling on roundabouts, so you are pretty clueless as to which way they intend going. But hey, THEY know where they're going, so what does it matter - ?  However, when cycling home and I invariable come across two lanes of gridlocked traffic in various places, I pedal straight down the space in the middle to the front of the queue and think 'Yes, revenge - !'


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## outlash (8 Sep 2016)

So let's just get this straight, OP is sick of cars yet owns one himself....


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## kiriyama (8 Sep 2016)

With the year on year increase in traffic there is a year on year increase in traffic jams and a year on year increase of missery for drivers, we cyclist end up being an outlet for this misery in the form of rage and abuse. ... funny thing is riding bikes could free them from this misery!


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

outlash said:


> So let's just get this straight, OP is sick of cars yet owns one himself....





Accy cyclist said:


> I own a car but it hasn't moved for three weeks. i can honestly say that if i didn't need a car to carry my ladders and stuff to and from work i would not bother having one. I've even thought about a type of barrow to push my stuff around but most of my work is around 5 miles from home and it's very hilly where i work. I probably do less than 3000 miles a year driving.



You must've missed this earlier post.


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## outlash (8 Sep 2016)

But you still own a car....


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## Yellow Saddle (8 Sep 2016)

What's happened? I've been away all afternoon driving my car up and down main street. Can anyone fill me in? What did I miss?


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

outlash said:


> But you still own a car....
> 
> View attachment 143249




Yes but i drive it only when i have to do. Not just for the sake of it. Oh and i do indicate and do not park on pavements!


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## Goggs (8 Sep 2016)

A few years ago I worked as a WVM in the city. My house was 8 miles outside the city so I'd commute into work for 06:30, load my van & then I was out on the road all day. I understood why the roads were busy during my commute but what I still don't get is why they continued to be just as busy throughout the whole day. Don't these people have work to do? If not then how can they afford to drive around all day? And why are they doing so?


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## outlash (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Yes but i drive it only when i have to do. Not just for the sake of it. Oh and i do indicate and do not park on pavements!



So you're sick of everyone else's cars but not your own?


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## vickster (8 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> A few years ago I worked as a WVM in the city. My house was 8 miles outside the city so I'd commute into work for 06:30, load my van & then I was out on the road all day. I understood why the roads were busy during my commute but what I still don't get is why they continued to be just as busy throughout the whole day. Don't these people have work to do? If not then how can they afford to drive around all day? And why are they doing so?


I'm sure Accy for example drives between his window cleaning gigs outside the rush hour, other people drive between different places of work, people work different shifts, retired and non working people also drive during the day etc...roads are generally less busy during the day (the m25 appears to be an exception)

Simples


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## Goggs (8 Sep 2016)

vickster said:


> I'm sure Accy for example drives between his window cleaning gigs outside the rush hour, other people drive between different places of work, people work different shifts, retired and non working people also drive during the day etc...roads are generally less busy during the day (the m25 appears to be an exception)
> 
> Simples



I obviously imagined it then. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## vickster (8 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> I obviously imagined it then. Thanks for clearing that up.


Eh?

I'm sure you didn't imagine that there were people using roads outside the rush hour

Doesn't that happen in France?


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## Goggs (8 Sep 2016)

Not to the same extent, no.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

simongt said:


> Maybe it's simply a question of balance. My big bugbear is vehicles that don't bother signalling on roundabouts, so you are pretty clueless as to which way they intend going. But hey, THEY know where they're going, so what does it matter - ?  However, when cycling home and I invariable come across two lanes of gridlocked traffic in various places, I pedal straight down the space in the middle to the front of the queue and think 'Yes, revenge - !'


Depends. I've been beeped for not signalling straight on. There's a difference between a roundabout and a gyratory


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## Goggs (8 Sep 2016)

Nobody signals in France. The worst driving standards I've ever experienced actually.


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> Nobody signals in France. The worst driving standards I've ever experienced actually.




Many years ago the BSM were after learner driving instructors. I fancied it so i took a test drive with one of their "senior" instructors, to see if i was suitable material for the job. He pulled me up when i indicated, asking why i'd indicated when there was no one about. How do i know no one's about, there might be someone i haven't noticed who's wondering what my next move will be i replied. He said if i was taking the test to become an instructor they'd fail me for unnecessary indicating. It only costs a few seconds to flick a switch what harm is there in that i replied, but he wasn't having it so i stopped the car and decided the job wasn't for me.


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## martint235 (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Many years ago the BSM were after learner driving instructors. I fancied it so i took a test drive with one of their "senior" instructors, to see if i was suitable material for the job. He pulled me up when i indicated, asking why i'd indicated when there was no one about. How do i know no one's about, there might be someone i haven't noticed who's wondering what my next move will be i replied. He said if i was taking the test to become an instructor they'd fail me for unnecessary indicating. It only costs a few seconds to flick a switch what harm is there in that i replied, but he wasn't having it so i stopped the car and decided the job wasn't for me.


Tree. Forest. No one around. On my bike I still stick my arm out when the nearest car is 5 miles away. Habit


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

outlash said:


> So let's just get this straight, OP is sick of cars yet owns one himself....




Yes but that doesn't mean i'm not sick of mine as well.


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## snorri (8 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> . I understood why the roads were busy during my commute but what I still don't get is why they continued to be just as busy throughout the whole day. Don't these people have work to do?


One of my ex-colleagues had modified the old WW1 saying "When your marching you're not fighting" to say "When you're driving you're not working" In other words as long as he was out on the road and not sitting idly at his base, management were happy without checking his every move.


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## vickster (8 Sep 2016)

martint235 said:


> Tree. Forest. No one around. On my bike I still stick my arm out when the nearest car is 5 miles away. Habit


But cars have multiple mirrors for checking. I guess you don't have eyes in the back of your head?


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## Nigelnaturist (8 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Many years ago the BSM were after learner driving instructors. I fancied it so i took a test drive with one of their "senior" instructors, to see if i was suitable material for the job. He pulled me up when i indicated, asking why i'd indicated when there was no one about. How do i know no one's about, there might be someone i haven't noticed who's wondering what my next move will be i replied. He said if i was taking the test to become an instructor they'd fail me for unnecessary indicating. It only costs a few seconds to flick a switch what harm is there in that i replied, but he wasn't having it so i stopped the car and decided the job wasn't for me.


Complete opposite to what I was told doing my HGV, regarding indicating at roundabouts, there is a mini one near here atop of a short 10% climb it does pee me off when a car on the approaching right doesn't indicate left if thats their intent because you have to stop till you know their intent and as we all know its lost momentum.


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## tyred (8 Sep 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> What's happened? I've been away all afternoon driving my car up and down main street. Can anyone fill me in? What did I miss?



Move with the times. Get a smart phone and update your status while driving up and down the main street


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## Oldfentiger (8 Sep 2016)

Bloomin prophetic, this thread.
Had real close shave this evening.
For those who know the area, I was swooping down the slope from Blacko to Barrowford on the A628 iirc. It's a 30mph limit so I was keeping up with the traffic, but leaving a 50 metre gap to the car in front. Don't want to have to panic brake if someone jumps on the anchors.
All of a sudden some muppet reverses at speed out of a driveway on the left into the gap I've left in front of me!! No way I'm gonna stop in time. Back brake is no use as the wheel is off the ground. Can't brake any harder or I'm over the bars.
Muppet wakes up, jams it in gear and accelerates away smartish, waving his hand by way of apology.
I waved back at him.
That's a busy road. Who reverses out onto a busy A road ffs?


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## tyred (8 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> That's a busy road. Who reverses out onto a busy A road ffs?



You'd be surprised but it seems to happen all the time here. I can't understand as I would never put myself in the position of having to reverse blind on to the road.


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## Accy cyclist (8 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> Bloomin prophetic, this thread.
> Had real close shave this evening.
> For those who know the area, I was swooping down the slope from Blacko to Barrowford on the A628 iirc. It's a 30mph limit so I was keeping up with the traffic, but leaving a 50 metre gap to the car in front. Don't want to have to panic brake if someone jumps on the anchors.
> All of a sudden some muppet reverses at speed out of a driveway on the left into the gap I've left in front of me!! No way I'm gonna stop in time. Back brake is no use as the wheel is off the ground. Can't brake any harder or I'm over the bars.
> ...




A lazy dumb couldn't give a toss bastard that's who!


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## Nigelnaturist (8 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> Bloomin prophetic, this thread.
> Had real close shave this evening.
> For those who know the area, I was swooping down the slope from Blacko to Barrowford on the A628 iirc. It's a 30mph limit so I was keeping up with the traffic, but leaving a 50 metre gap to the car in front. Don't want to have to panic brake if someone jumps on the anchors.
> All of a sudden some muppet reverses at speed out of a driveway on the left into the gap I've left in front of me!! No way I'm gonna stop in time. Back brake is no use as the wheel is off the ground. Can't brake any harder or I'm over the bars.
> ...


New drivers won't be doing that as they dropped the reversing into a junction bit, so I believe.


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## Racing roadkill (8 Sep 2016)

Sue them, all of them.


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## Goggs (9 Sep 2016)

I was informed by one of my nieces when I pulled her up for not indicating that she'd been instructed that excessive use of indicators is a fail. I guess in order to indicate there must be someone to indicate to.


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## Goggs (9 Sep 2016)

User said:


> I disagree. Paris drivers may be shoot - but at least they indicate before running you over.
> 
> Driver signalling is, in my experience, far better on France than in the UK.



I can't speak for Paris but around these parts indicators are a myth. Everyone also defaults to the middle of the road when no-one's around. Makes blind corners on narrow roads interesting.


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## Accy cyclist (9 Sep 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> Sue them, all of them.





Goggs said:


> I was informed by one of my nieces when I pulled her up for not indicating that she'd been instructed that excessive use of indicators is a fail. I guess in order to indicate there must be someone to indicate to.




I don't see how indicating no matter how much you do it,should be classed as a fail. If you're turning,overtaking,pulling in to park,attempting to rejoin traffic etc and you signal your intentions to do so why is that bad? Incorrect signalling such as signalling after the manoeuvre or indicating left two turn offs from your intended exit then yes. As for there having to be something to indicate to,like i said previously how can you be 100% certain there's no one or no vehicle relying on you signalling your intentions?


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## Goggs (9 Sep 2016)

I don't make the rules.


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## lutonloony (9 Sep 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> What's happened? I've been away all afternoon driving my car up and down main street. Can anyone fill me in? What did I miss?


Not much


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## MarquisMatsugae (9 Sep 2016)

Racing roadkill said:


> Sue them, all of them.



Accrington,twinned with Los Angeles.


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## Starchivore (9 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> An elderly disabled woman i know rides around on a mobility scooter. One of her routes is constantly blocked by some staff who work at a car home. It's a busy road so they say they have to park their vehicles on the pavement to save their wing mirrors and stuff,even though most leave their mirrors out. One day she saw a gap on the pavement so she tried to squeeze through, scratching a car as she did so. The owner of the car saw her scratch his car. He ran out threatening this and that, demanding her name and address. I told her to contact the police and see what they said. According to her they said she'd done nothing wrong as the car shouldn't have been blocking a public highway. So why are they still using the pavement next to the care home as a car park?



Seeing cars parked on pavements without enough room left for someone in a wheelchair or mobility scooter to pass is something that really makes me angry, and as a person I'm so laid back I'm almost horizontal.

It's a complete lack of any thought for other people. They deserve for their vehicles to end up with accidental damage.


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## Nigelnaturist (9 Sep 2016)

@Starchivore
I will give you a less obvious one, my friend is wheelchair bound and in front of his house is a dipped kerb its the only one in the close the number of cars the park in front of it, well................


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## steveindenmark (9 Sep 2016)

We are so good at knocking car drivers but we should be looking at ourselves instead.

Ive already had 2 near misses with bikes without lights on the way to work this month. How they can see without them is a mystery. It is pitch black where I livr.

A quick look at Youtube and you will see some total twonkers on bikes and in cars.

Im a car driver but mostly a cyclist and it is cyclists doing stupid things that annoy me the most. Basic, silly things like no lights, not signalling, jamming the brakes on in the middle of nowhere for no reason at all.

Thankfully most of the bike riders and car drivers I come across engage their brain before setting out. Its those that dont who stand out in my mind.


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## Yellow Saddle (9 Sep 2016)

steveindenmark said:


> We are so good at knocking car drivers but we should be looking at ourselves instead.
> 
> Ive already had 2 near misses with bikes without lights on the way to work this month. How they can see without them is a mystery. It is pitch black where I livr.
> 
> ...


Steve, there is no place on this forum for introspection or balance. This is a cycle forum where we bash car drivers and argue that every single car trip is one that should best be done on an HPV made from organic, home-grown materials which are PVC-free, gluten-free and green. Our carbon footprints are low and being so green, our methane emissions aren't taken into account. We are the holy of the holy.

Of course most of us own cars as well but that paradox is easily dealt with by simply joining a car forum where we can bitch and moan about cyclists riding without lights, chasing old ladies off pavements and carelessly leaning our bicycles against shop windows. Not to mention those awful revealing spandex they wear. Don't they realise that they look like a jellyfish stuffed into condom.

Tut tut tut....

Me? I'm going for a ride and a beer. It is Friday and thus morally legal to drink before noon.


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## Starchivore (9 Sep 2016)

Those wishing to moan about cyclists may create their own thread.

This thread was created by Accy to moan about motorists and I for one respect that!


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> I don't see how indicating no matter how much you do it,should be classed as a fail. If you're turning,overtaking,pulling in to park,attempting to rejoin traffic etc and you signal your intentions to do so why is that bad? Incorrect signalling such as signalling after the manoeuvre or indicating left two turn offs from your intended exit then yes. As for there having to be something to indicate to,like i said previously how can you be 100% certain there's no one or no vehicle relying on you signalling your intentions?


IAM Instructors give you a grilling if you indicate in a filter lane or indicate when there are no other road users to indicate too. The logic is that you are unthinkingly indicating, and unthinking indicating is a symptom of unthinking driving. You know the sort of thing signal, manoeuvre, oh sh!t!


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## martint235 (9 Sep 2016)

Yellow Saddle said:


> Steve, there is no place on this forum for introspection or balance. This is a cycle forum where we bash car drivers and argue that every single car trip is one that should best be done on an HPV made from organic, home-grown materials which are PVC-free, gluten-free and green. Our carbon footprints are low and being so green, our methane emissions aren't taken into account. We are the holy of the holy.
> 
> Of course most of us own cars as well but that paradox is easily dealt with by simply joining a car forum where we can bitch and moan about cyclists riding without lights, chasing old ladies off pavements and carelessly leaning our bicycles against shop windows. Not to mention those awful revealing spandex they wear. Don't they realise that they look like a jellyfish stuffed into condom.
> 
> ...


Really? Can I have that in writing?


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## Oldfentiger (9 Sep 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> IAM Instructors give you a grilling if you indicate in a filter lane or indicate when there are no other road users to indicate too. The logic is that you are unthinkingly indicating, and unthinking indicating is a symptom of unthinking driving. You know the sort of thing signal, manoeuvre, oh sh!t!


I agree with that.
You should know whether there are any other road users around you, by using something called observation and spatial awareness.
To indicate "just in case" there is someone else near is mindless imo.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> I was informed by one of my nieces when I pulled her up for not indicating that she'd been instructed that excessive use of indicators is a fail. I guess in order to indicate there must be someone to indicate to.


Not true.

Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> I agree with that.
> You should know whether there are any other road users around you, by using something called observation and spatial awareness.
> To indicate "just in case" there is someone else near is mindless imo.



Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.


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## Starchivore (9 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.



I don't drive but that would be my thought too. Surely it's better just to be in the habit of following all the safety procedures all the time, rather than having another thing to assess- _should I indicate or not, is anyone around to make it worth it etc_. That's just another thing to have to think about isn't it?


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2016)

Starchivore said:


> I don't drive but that would be my thought too. Surely it's better just to be in the habit of following all the safety procedures all the time, rather than having another thing to assess- _should I indicate or not, is anyone around to make it worth it etc_. That's just another thing to have to think about isn't it?


It makes sure that you are thinking - and not just blindly going through the motions out of habit.


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## steveindenmark (9 Sep 2016)

Motorcycle training and getting instruction to be and IAM car member is totally different. I am a motorcyclist and a IAM car member.

I was also an ADI in cars. You are taught systems. Mirror - Signal - Manouvre, etc to get you through the test. It is the basic mimimum standard needed to get you out on the road. Hopefully, as you get more experienced the systems you learnt at the start become a framework on which you add all your new experiences to. The systems you learn at the start are not written in stone, they are just the start of a building block which you add to as you gain experience.


You indicate if it will benefit any other road user or pedestrian. Otherwise there is no need to indicate. I was on an LGV refresher course a couple of months ago and the instructor agreed with that.

The Highway code is misleading...whats new. When referring to signals there are sections which say "You must always" and other sections which say "When necessary".


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> It makes sure that you are thinking - and not just blindly going through the motions out of habit.



Isn't there an argument for blindly going through the motions in a systematic way till it becomes 2nd nature. Applies to a lot of things - scuba diving say - or military drill - or playing the piano.


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## Glow worm (9 Sep 2016)

I simply couldn't make a turn, leave a RAB, change lanes etc without indicating correctly. It's so ingrained it's 2nd nature for me. All this stuff about no one there to see it seems nonsense. How can you be absolutely sure there's no one there? Not indicating correctly is just lazy/ bad driving though it's so endemic now it's a bit pathetic really.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Isn't there an argument for blindly going through the motions in a systematic way till it becomes 2nd nature. Applies to a lot of things - scuba diving say - or military drill - or playing the piano.


The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.


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## MontyVeda (9 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Starchivore
> I will give you a less obvious one, my friend is wheelchair bound and in front of his house is a dipped kerb its the only one in the close the number of cars the park in front of it, well................


what's needed is a short double yellow to protect it.


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## Starchivore (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.



But is that guy cutting across without looking really related to him indicating? Yes he did it because it's automatic to him but surely if it hadn't been, he probably would have just cut across you anyway?


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## Oldfentiger (9 Sep 2016)

There are situations where you can mislead other road users by indicating.
e.g. Following a slow-moving vehicle on a main road whilst approaching a minor road on the right. Your right indicator is flashing. What are you going to do? Overtake the slow moving vehicle (when it's safe to do so), or are you going to turn right?

This was pointed out to me by my IAM examiner.


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.



Bit of a false choice argument. No ones saying be systemtic instead of looking where you're going after all.

You could use the "thinking" argument equally well for observation - only look in specific places for each manoevure rather than mindlessly looking everywhere.


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## steveindenmark (9 Sep 2016)

Glow worm said:


> I simply couldn't make a turn, leave a RAB, change lanes etc without indicating correctly. It's so ingrained it's 2nd nature for me. All this stuff about no one there to see it seems nonsense. How can you be absolutely sure there's no one there? Not indicating correctly is just lazy/ bad driving though it's so endemic now it's a bit pathetic really.



It is not lazy, bad driving, its advanced driving. If you need to make an informed comment then book yourself on a Advanced motorist course and see for yourself. My dad claimed he was a good driver when he tried to teach me, as does everyones dad. He was rubbish, truly awful, when you were taught by professionals. I dont claim to be a brilliant driver. Ive been an LGV1 driver for over 30 years, ADI, IOM instructor, ex police driver. If there is anything I have learnt about driving is that we dont know it all, even if we think we do. There is always more to learn if we want to go out and learn it. The ADI car course was really good fun. The police skid pan rides every year were terrible. I was sick every time.


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Bit of a false choice argument. No ones saying be systemtic instead of looking where you're going after all.
> 
> You could use the "thinking" argument equally well for observation - only look in specific places for each manoevure rather than mindlessly looking everywhere.


We appear to be at slightly cross purposes - my fault I think. I'm using the term "Automatic", by which I mean just flicking the indicator with no thought to how the manouvre will effect anyone else. I do understand what you mean by "Systematic".


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.


Was specifically challenged, by a police instructor, about unthinking indicating whilst doing my IAM motorbike test. But that was a long time ago, and, possibly, the thinking on unthinking may have changed.


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> We appear to be at slightly cross purposes - my fault I think. I'm using the term "Automatic", by which I mean just flicking the indicator with no thought to how the manouvre will effect anyone else. I do understand what you mean by "Systematic".



Can't really argue with that. I do tend to the "indicate unless there's a specific reason not too" rather then "only indicate if absoultely necessary" as it were. I am also a great believer in being systematic so things do become (good) habits - look, indicate, look again, move (this from motorcycle training) - which incidentally improved my car driving a lot and I'm now very rarely suprised by no seeing something - and even then the extra look catches it. Similarly diving - drills to determine which valve to turn off quickly and so on.


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> There are situations where you can mislead other road users by indicating.
> e.g. Following a slow-moving vehicle on a main road whilst approaching a minor road on the right. Your right indicator is flashing. What are you going to do? Overtake the slow moving vehicle (when it's safe to do so), or are you going to turn right?
> 
> This was pointed out to me by my IAM examiner.



yebbut not indicating suggests you are simply carrying so so would clearley be wrong. And you wouldn't be overtaking by a junction in the first place if you had any claim to being "advanced" after all.

That said, there are valid examples - left turn ummediately followed by a layby - indicate too soon and people think you're turning into the junction and pull out - leave it till after and get beeped by twat behind for indicating "late" - I preferred the latter.

Or cycling - I would only by exception signal left as it encourages left-hooks and right-turners cutting across


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## Oldfentiger (9 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> yebbut not indicating suggests you are simply carrying so so would clearley be wrong. And you wouldn't be overtaking by a junction in the first place if you had any claim to being "advanced" after all.
> 
> That said, there are valid examples - left turn ummediately followed by a layby - indicate too soon and people think you're turning into the junction and pull out - leave it till after and get beeped by twat behind for indicating "late" - I preferred the latter.
> 
> Or cycling - I would only by exception signal left as it encourages left-hooks and right-turners cutting across


Which why I added "when safe to do so"


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## MontyVeda (9 Sep 2016)

outlash said:


> So let's just get this straight, OP is sick of cars yet owns one himself....





outlash said:


> But you still own a car....
> 
> View attachment 143249





outlash said:


> So you're sick of everyone else's cars but not your own?


These three posts in 20 minutes are clearly the work of a troll... and quite a stupid one since you clearly don't understand the OP.


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## Velominati (9 Sep 2016)

In my opinion, there are too many distractions in a car, CD Player, DVD screens, texting, heated seats, satnav etc., when I ride my pushbike or motorcycle, I am exposed to the elements, no distractions just me and the road, I know exactly what is happening to my tyres, I know how much grip I have and I'm very aware of my surroundings, its just not like that for car drivers, with the advent of ABS, Power steering and all the other gadgets that you find in modern cars there is a real risk that drivers become desensitised to their surroundings. In older cars you could feel the road through the steering wheel, you could feel every bump in the road and there used to be fewer distractions. If the road surface was greasy or wet car drivers could compensate for it by slowing down. These days in modern cars its almost impossible for the drivers to feel at one with the road, even the sensation of speed is being lost to car drivers, if a car is being driven too fast, the on-board electronics simply compensate for it, and its okay to drive like a lunatic because there is always the airbag and side impact strengthening to protect Mr car Driver.

To be honest, when I'm out on my bike I don't expect to be seen by Mr car driver, I don't even expect them to recognise me as another human being, I'm just one more obstacle to be passed, I'm in the way, and as far as the car driver is concerned I shouldn't even be on the road, with that in mind and riding defensively, I find that I manage to get home in one piece.


For what its worth, In my experience the biggest mistake that all road users make is assuming that they know what the other road users will do, my golden rule is to ride like I'm invisible and I never, repeat never trust a car when it indicates, I learnt that through bitter experience and many broken bones.

Rant Over.


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## Nigelnaturist (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Not true.
> 
> Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.


Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.


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## Profpointy (9 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.



Indicating when no one's there is a huge problem. Probably the the direct cause of maybe zero accidents


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## Velominati (9 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Not true.
> 
> Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.



If you haven't already you should give the current motorcycle test a go, one of the biggest fails is forgetting to turn off the indicators, unlike cars, motorcycles don't have self cancelling indicators, they other big fail is forgetting to carry out shoulder checks or life savers, I reckon that cyclist could learn a great deal from motorcycle training. I passed my DAS four years ago, its the best training for the road that you can get, it even improved my car driving.


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## DaveReading (9 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.



I suspect that, for the purpose of the test, an "unnecessary" signal is defined as one that's not appropriate in relation to the manoeuvre you're about to make, and not in terms of whether or not there is anyone else around to see your signal.


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## outlash (9 Sep 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> These three posts in 20 minutes are clearly the work of a troll... and quite a stupid one since you clearly don't understand the OP.



genuine lols.


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## Tanis8472 (9 Sep 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> what's needed is a short double yellow to protect it.



Well if people read the highway code and brushed up occasionally, they'd know that a dropped kerb is by default the same as double lines


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## Smokin Joe (9 Sep 2016)

Velominati said:


> *If you haven't already you should give the current motorcycle test a go, one of the biggest fails is forgetting to turn off the indicators,* unlike cars, motorcycles don't have self cancelling indicators, they other big fail is forgetting to carry out shoulder checks or life savers, I reckon that cyclist could learn a great deal from motorcycle training. I passed my DAS four years ago, its the best training for the road that you can get, it even improved my car driving.



That is indeed potentially dangerous as you are giving a misleading signal which would confuse other road users. Not the same as indicating to pull in on a straight, clear road when there is no one else in sight. Unnecessary but not in any way something that is unsafe.


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## Tanis8472 (9 Sep 2016)

Indicating to pull in after overtaking is one I hate


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## Nigelnaturist (9 Sep 2016)

Velominati said:


> If you haven't already you should give the current motorcycle test a go, one of the biggest fails is forgetting to turn off the indicators, unlike cars, motorcycles don't have self cancelling indicators, they other big fail is forgetting to carry out shoulder checks or life savers, I reckon that cyclist could learn a great deal from motorcycle training. I passed my DAS four years ago, its the best training for the road that you can get, it even improved my car driving.


I did motor cycle training when I was 16-17, I did my HGV in 2004, for the record I passed both first time, and on the HGV with only 2 minors, and the theory test one of the highest at the time in Gillingham. 
@DaveReading I was quoting what the instructors said, we did debt the issue a little, because in your HGV you are taught to indicate even when you think no-one is looking.
@Tanis8472 I regulaly do the theory test either on line or from dvd, and on my book shelve a current highway code, but my short term memory isn't what it was.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> I can't comment on drivers who don't indicate, mount pavements etc as that is not me as a rule and I try to drive in a legal and considerate manner.
> 
> However, I can comment on why I make so many car journeys.
> 
> ...






pauldavid said:


> So in summary, I can drive if I want to in the same way you can ride when you want to and it's none of your business where I'm going



Bloody well is, when you're adding to the clogged up roads, just for the fun of it. Your type will be out in force this sunny Sunday. Driving like lemmings just for the sake of it.


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## Oldfentiger (11 Sep 2016)

The missus and I both have company cars which are both obviously required by what we do for a living. One of the downsides is that, if we want to go on a jaunt at the weekend, it sorta feels a bit like a busmans holiday.
We bought a Mazda MX5. It spends most of it's time under a cover in the garage. The sun's out today, so we might just get it out and drive aimlessly round the Dales with the roof down, cos that's what we bought it for.
Can't see anything wrong with that.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> The missus and I both have company cars which are both obviously required by what we do for a living. One of the downsides is that, if we want to go on a jaunt at the weekend, it sorta feels a bit like a busmans holiday.
> We bought a Mazda MX5. It spends most of it's time under a cover in the garage. The sun's out today, so we might just get it out and drive aimlessly round the Dales with the roof down, cos that's what we bought it for.
> Can't see anything wrong with that.




I bought an Audi 80 Convertible about 4 years ago. It was a bit of fun driving with the top down but the novelty soon wore off. Every time i saw a cyclist i'd end up wishing i was on his bike rather than sat behind a wheel driving aimlessly. If i'd bought it for everyday necessary journeys i'd probably still have it, but i couldn't justify the cost of keeping it just so i could have the occasional drive around with the top down.


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## Oldfentiger (11 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> I bought an Audi 80 Convertible about 4 years ago. It was a bit of fun driving with the top down but the novelty soon wore off. Every time i saw a cyclist i'd end up wishing i was on his bike rather than sat behind a wheel driving aimlessly. If i'd bought it for everyday necessary journeys i'd probably still have it, but i couldn't justify the cost of keeping it just so i could have the occasional drive around with the top down.


It's easily justifiable in our world.
It's paid for.
Costs peanuts to run.
Mazda legendary reliability.
MOT annually £35 (always passes).
Road tax £16ish/month
35 mpg

We get decent use out of it. Been to Italy three times and driven aimlessly round there too. Touring the Alps in a drophead should be on everyone's bucket list.

I suppose I'm just trying to make the point that leisure motoring is a valid pursuit.

However I also get annoyed with people being lazy in their everyday lives.
Why the need to park next to the supermarket door. Why can't kids walk or cycle to school? Most of them are fat and could do with the exercise. Etc. Etc.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> It's easily justifiable in our world.
> It's paid for.
> Costs peanuts to run.
> Mazda legendary reliability.
> ...





Stop! Don't call anybodies kid fat in a derogatory manner on here! I called someone for being so and received hate mail!


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## Oldfentiger (11 Sep 2016)

When I was at school there were only about 6 fat kids out of 360-odd.
Summat's changed hasn't it?


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> When I was at school there were only about 6 fat kids out of 360-odd.
> Summat's changed hasn't it?




When i was waiting in the A&E waiting room after my knocked off incident i saw this family walk in. The dad had a beer belly so big he was leaning back to balance himself. Two of their four children were clearly overweight. As soon as they saw the crisps, chocolate vending machine they started playing up. The girl threw a tantrum till mum bought her a chocolate bar. She ate it in about 5 minutes then threw another tantrum till mum bought her a packet of crisps. After eating them she wanted more. Finally the mother said to the girl no you've had enough. You wont want your McDonalds, as you'll be full!


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## Smokin Joe (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> We bought a Mazda MX5. It spends most of it's time under a cover in the garage. The sun's out today, so we might just get it out and drive aimlessly round the Dales with the roof down, cos that's what we bought it for.
> Can't see anything wrong with that.



I've promised myself one of those at some point in the not too distant future. Work needs rule one out at the moment, but it's on my list of must haves. A Lotus Elan that doesn't fall to bits, what's not to like?


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## Oldfentiger (11 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> I've promised myself one of those at some point in the not too distant future. Work needs rule one out at the moment, but it's on my list of must haves. A Lotus Elan that doesn't fall to bits, what's not to like?


Even older ones can still be very good. Our previous one was a 2004 model with 20K on the clock, owned by a doctors wife. Brilliant car. Bought it for £4750.


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> It's easily justifiable in our world.
> It's paid for.
> Costs peanuts to run.
> Mazda legendary reliability.
> ...


If you have kids and aimlessly drive around you have no concern for theirs or the future of our species (and the rest of the planet)


Oldfentiger said:


> When I was at school there were only about 6 fat kids out of 360-odd.
> Summat's changed hasn't it?


Yes excessive use of the motor car from running kids to school to being afraid to allow them out because of the increased traffic of which having three cars between two of you makes you high on the list.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Yes excessive use of the motor car from running kids to school to being afraid to allow them out because of the increased traffic of which having three cars between two of you makes you high on the list.


Judging from the number of overweight (Even obese) cyclists one sees out and about today I have my doubts about how beneficial exercise is in keeping slim. Modern scientific opinion seems to be moving towards identifying the cause as the amount of sugar added to food, something which has increased alarmingly over the past 50 years. 

Today's sportive types do seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the cake stop going by the threads on cycling forums, which would explain the "Fat man in lycra" group.


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Sep 2016)

@Smokin Joe I agree and other factors come into play as well like computer games over meeting friends for a kick about ect. However at 40 cals or so a mile and doing 100+ miles a week thats a pound a week in any ones books, and we are probably forgetting possibly the biggest weight gain in adults alcohol.
I personally can't afford to lose to much more weight being under 11st now and 6ft, but I am not really eating enough.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Smokin Joe I agree and other factors come into play as well like computer games over meeting friends for a kick about ect. However at 40 cals or so a mile and doing 100+ miles a week thats a pound a week in any ones books, and we are probably forgetting possibly the biggest weight gain in adults alcohol.
> I personally can't afford to lose to much more weight being under 11st now and 6ft, but I am not really eating enough.



I daren't weigh myself these days.i'm 6ft but the last time i looked i was just over 10 stone. No matter how i try i can not gain weight. Some said it was due to my 150 miles a week cycling but i haven't ridden for nearly 3 weeks and i can tell i haven't put any weight back on. I have 4 of these a day, god knows what i'd weigh if i didn't take them.https://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/ens...s02IgqRlp6M6VZ4STPud8wrtHDbrC9zHQGBoC_33w_wcB


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## Smokin Joe (11 Sep 2016)

Same build as myself Accy, I'm 6'1" and 10.5 stone.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Same build as myself Accy, I'm 6'1" and 10.5 stone.




What's that down to Joe? Medical problems or just your natural build? I've been "slim" most of my life. I'd love to go back to the 13.5 stone i was 9 years ago but i can't see that happening


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## Oldfentiger (11 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> If you have kids and aimlessly drive around you have no concern for theirs or the future as our species (and the rest of the planet)
> 
> Yes excessive use of the motor car from running kids to school to being afraid to allow them out because of the increased traffic of which having three cars between two of you makes you high on the list.



What drivel.
We only own one car. The other two are tools of our respective trades.
When we are out in our own car we are always together.
The MX5 has done 25000 miles in six years.
15000 miles of those have been driving to and from Italy, and touring on holiday.
I doubt whether we use as much fuel as a Boeing 737, so we're doing our bit to save the Planet.
I would doubt that the Holier than Thou Brigade risk going on holiday anyway.
Also we don't usually target schools on weekdays on our aimless drives. I've managed to avoid knocking any schoolchildren over so far.


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## Smokin Joe (11 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> What's that down to Joe? Medical problems or just your natural build? I've been "slim" most of my life. I'd love to go back to the 13.5 stone i was 9 years ago but i can't see that happening


Natural build. I've been that weight all my life.


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## coffeejo (11 Sep 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Natural build. I've been that weight all my life.


Your poor mother!


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Sep 2016)

@Accy cyclist not as light as you yet but I have lost a stone in the last 6-7 weeks and just under 11st. now.


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Sep 2016)

Oldfentiger said:


> What drivel.
> We only own one car. The other two are tools of our respective trades.
> When we are out in our own car we are always together.
> The MX5 has done 25000 miles in six years.
> ...


I have done 22,000 miles on my bike in 4 years. 
That's is some detour to Italy, is 15,000 miles, I am not a great fan of jet planes either (loads of other stuff as well ......) but if you look at CO2 level increase since the 50/60's you will see why I am not (which I assume you already know).
I never implied you did but more the future of those children. 
I have driven for a living and might likely do again, but all my personal transport is on my bike.


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## Accy cyclist (11 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Accy cyclist not as light as you yet but I have lost a stone in the last 6-7 weeks and just under 11st. now.



I saw a height and weight chart in the doctors once. According to the chart my maximum weight should be 13.5 stone and minimum 10 stone. I think i'm lazy when it comes to food if someone put 3 meals a day in front of me(like in hospital last week) i'd eat them. As it is now i have 1 main meal, 4 supplements, and crisps, chocolate and ice cream to try to gain weight.I also try and have 5 fruit and veg a day.


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## Nigelnaturist (11 Sep 2016)

@Accy cyclist ditto except i am not eating the amount you are.


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## MontyVeda (11 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> ...
> So in summary, I can drive if I want to in the same way you can ride when you want to and it's none of your business where I'm going





Accy cyclist said:


> Bloody well is, when you're adding to the clogged up roads, just for the fun of it. Your type will be out in force this sunny Sunday. Driving like lemmings just for the sake of it.


In light of this @Accy cyclist ...i have no choice but to retract this...


MontyVeda said:


> These three posts in 20 minutes are clearly the work of a troll... and quite a stupid one since you clearly don't understand the OP.


Apologies @outlash ...the OP clearly does have issues with everyone's car but his own.


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## outlash (11 Sep 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> the OP clearly does have issues with everyone's car but his own.



He has a lot of issues given the amount of moaning & blaming we've had to endure. 

Personally, I don't see the difference between leisure cycling or leisure driving. Both enjoyable, but both unecessary.


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## Profpointy (11 Sep 2016)

outlash said:


> He has a lot of issues given the amount of moaning & blaming we've had to endure.
> 
> Personally, I don't see the difference between leisure cycling or leisure driving. Both enjoyable, but both unecessary.



well there is a difference in that leasure driving is using up precious fossil fuels, directly kiling other road users (more miles = more deaths) as well as contributing to global warming. Leasure cycling is negligable harm in comparison. Not that I don't drive to go on holiday, even if I've rarely if ever "gone for a drive" but the difference is pretty clear cut


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## Cuchilo (11 Sep 2016)

I prefer leisure boating with my two stroke engine . Thats proper smog


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## outlash (11 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> well there is a difference in that leasure driving is using up precious fossil fuels, directly kiling other road users (more miles = more deaths) as well as contributing to global warming. Leasure cycling is negligable harm in comparison. Not that I don't drive to go on holiday, even if I've rarely if ever "gone for a drive" but the difference is pretty clear cut



Whilst I kind of agree with you, it's largely irrelevant in the context of this thread.


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## pauldavid (11 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Bloody well is, when you're adding to the clogged up roads, just for the fun of it. Your type will be out in force this sunny Sunday. Driving like lemmings just for the sake of it.



Bloody well isn't and never will be, mind your own business and stay out of other peoples.

Probably best for you to just go back to your inane polls about whether you should get dressed or not, simple things like that seem more your level.


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## mjr (11 Sep 2016)

Odd trip to the shops by bike today. I could see the nose tail motorists from my route for 3 miles and I'd bet the queue continued to the next A road split, 5 miles further on. Most of them probably thought it was a good day for a needless drive and got an hour or so sitting in a queue instead. Why do they do it? They should have gone out by bike instead


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## Accy cyclist (12 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> Bloody well isn't and never will be, mind your own business and stay out of other peoples.
> 
> Probably best for you to just go back to your inane polls about whether you should get dressed or not, simple things like that seem more your level.




Touchy touchy. Do you show the same aggression when driving around aimlessly?


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> In light of this @Accy cyclist ...i have no choice but to retract this...
> 
> Apologies @outlash ...the OP clearly does have issues with everyone's car but his own.


and I have no choice but to react to this, the point that is being made made is unnecessary journeys, it is reckoned there is 150 years of oil left (give or take) though the fall out of it running out will be felt long before that.
I know someone shes 2 1/2 years old her grand children will be living in a world without crude oil, now hopefully we as a species will have found better ways to create the energy we need by then, (and don't get on about energy efficient cars as most of these are still powered by fossil fuels from power stations)
Just take a look at this chart though I suspect many on here don't really needed to.



Today we are peaking at over 400ppm CO2 the release of methane is now becoming an issue this has also increased and is 4 times as potent as CO2 as a green house gas, the global mean temperature fluctuates for many reasons, but the chart clearly shows the that the increase has been rapid since the 60's an increase in car ownership increase in unnecessary global travel increase in electrical consumer products both in use and manufacturer I could go on, the point is are we to remain selfish or think about the future for our grand children and theirs or continue as we are, it us that will make the difference not governments.
However I do feel it is too late, the rate of glacial melt is unprecedented and sea level rise is currently at a mean of 0.4mm a year or which means a place I ride through not 5 miles from here could be on the coast (10m a.s.l.) within 200 years, the current coast line is some 45-60 miles away.



Leisure driving has no effect, please do go pull the other might even make me laugh, and I haven't even started on plastics and their possible effect on insect life, anyone notice this year how few insects there have been.


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## User16625 (12 Sep 2016)

Profpointy said:


> well there is a difference in that leasure driving is using up precious fossil fuels, directly kiling other road users (more miles = more deaths) as well as contributing to *global warming.* Leasure cycling is negligable harm in comparison. Not that I don't drive to go on holiday, even if I've rarely if ever "gone for a drive" but the difference is pretty clear cut



Its mostly known as climate change (which is what climates do, even on other planets) now. This is just in case that if the climate goes colder, rather than warmer, the self righteous still have a weapon to use.



Nigelnaturist said:


> and I have no choice but to react to this, the point that is being made made is unnecessary journeys, it is reckoned there is 150 years of oil left (give or take) though the fall out of it running out will be felt long before that.
> I know someone shes 2 1/2 years old her grand children will be living in a world without crude oil, now hopefully we as a species will have found better ways to create the energy we need by then, (and don't get on about energy efficient cars as most of these are still powered by fossil fuels from power stations)
> Just take a look at this chart though I suspect many on here don't really needed to.
> View attachment 143670
> ...



Yes. I bought myself an electric fly bat.


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## pauldavid (12 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> Touchy touchy. Do you show the same aggression when driving around aimlessly?



I was going to start a poll when i read this to help me make answer a question I had in my mind, then I just spent 30 seconds thinking and realised I didn't need to.


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

@RideLikeTheStig and those that use the excuse about climate change being natural which it is, what is referred to as global warming is generally referred to as what our species is doing to compand a possible problem, the earth has been warmer and colder (much much colder, Snowball Earth when the entire planet was covered in ice), the Sun is variable and has a major impact on climate (11 year sunspots I could go on about this), however the issue that is a concern is the rate at which CO2 and Methane are increasing CO2 has increased by approx 30% in the last 130 years over a pretty standard base line, at no point in the past as far as can be made out has this happened and the concern is what might happen.
Einstein once said without bees the planet has 4 years, its well known the bees are in decline, natural or from our actions, plastics and insects some plastics as they brake down give of certain pheromones which interrupt the reproduction cycle of insects.
Told you we've f***** it up.


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## outlash (12 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> 11 year sunspots I could go on about this



Please do.


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

@outlash its know that the sun has an 11 year cycle when the sun has more sunspots (more active) its warmer less spots cooler, what is less well know are longer term cycles I believe there is a 90 year cycle and one of 400 years or so, the 400 year cycle is possibly linked with both the mini ice-age in Europe (at least) of the 17th cent and the period in the 13th cent were poor summers were recorded, the last one (17th cent) it is know that over a period of about 60 years there were very few sunpots recorded known as the Maunder minimum. If the 400 year cycle is correct it is possible that it had some barring on the drive of the Vikings south in the 8-9th cent, though I have never come across evidence to suggest as much.


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

anyway its going a bit of topic.


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## pauldavid (12 Sep 2016)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @outlash its know that the sun has an 11 year cycle when the sun has more sunspots (more active) its warmer less spots cooler, what is less well know are longer term cycles I believe there is a 90 year cycle and one of 400 years or so, the 400 year cycle is possibly linked with both the mini ice-age in Europe (at least) of the 17th cent and the period in the 13th cent were poor summers were recorded, the last one (17th cent) it is know that over a period of about 60 years there were very few sunpots recorded known as the Maunder minimum. If the 400 year cycle is correct it is possible that it had some barring on the drive of the Vikings south in the 8-9th cent, though I have never come across evidence to suggest as much.




Those long winter nights must just fly by in your house!


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## coffeejo (12 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> Those long winter nights must just fly by in your house!


Charming.


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

pauldavid said:


> Those long winter nights must just fly by in your house!


They don't bother me its part of how the planet is, take part of my screen name maybe you might understand me a little better its not all about getting your kit off.


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## screenman (12 Sep 2016)

Every little helps, we should all stop using the internet.


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## Nigelnaturist (12 Sep 2016)

screenman said:


> Every little helps, we should all stop using the internet.


I am looking at cheaper (energy wise) graphics cards as the one I currently use is too powerful for the needs of this system, I would use the onboard but it doesn't support widescreen resolutions, base system uses approx 70-90wats with the current card 150-170watts (per hr) looking at cheaper systems altogether but trying to justify the outlay cost wise to how long to get that money back without losing to much in performance, my other system for photo editing & rendering only gets used when its needed.


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## Scoosh (12 Sep 2016)

*MOD NOTE:*
This thread seems to have served its time and, as it now appears to be heading into Climate Change territory, it is time to Close it.

Should you wish to discuss Climate Change, Global Warming etc, there are lots of opportunities over in SC&P.

You have been warned ...


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