# Do you go on your bike when the roads are covered with thin snow ?



## gavroche (11 Dec 2022)

I know a PE teacher who did a 60 kms ride yesterday on such roads. His only comments were : " It was bloody cold. " My answer to that was; " Do you have a death wish".
I know he is in his late 20"s , very keen rider and possibly oblivious to the dangers and I am considerably older and fully aware of the dangers but even so, common sense should prevail I think.


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## vickster (11 Dec 2022)

Good grief no


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## tyred (11 Dec 2022)

Definitely not. It's just not worth it.


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## I like Skol (11 Dec 2022)

Yes.


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## roubaixtuesday (11 Dec 2022)




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## cyberknight (11 Dec 2022)

depends on the bike, a road bike with skinny tyres , no chance


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## fossyant (11 Dec 2022)

MTB with studs yes, not worth the risk on the road. Our estate get's very icy as it's not gritted, so I'll take the MTB. Better than having a car slide into you.


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## Panscrank (11 Dec 2022)

Nope, not worth the risk


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## I like Skol (11 Dec 2022)

Just to put my reply into context...

From memory I have fallen off on the road due to slipping only 3 times during my adult cycling career, always during the winter.

Two of those events were on dry roads where the heavy gritting in the days/weeks before had left a slippy crust on the surface which even though it looked entirely dry (even under subsequent inspection) left a coating like grease as far as tyre grip was concerned. These were cold dry days with temps above freezing and no frost. Both times at a reasonable speed and resulted in some grazes and torn clothing.
The other time was urban riding in mid afternoon after a frosty morning. The frost had all cleared and I was several miles into my ride when I turned into a terraced street and went down instantly on a patch of frost that had been in the shadow of the houses all day. Slowish fall and no harm done other than embarrassment.

If it is snowy then you expect it and ride accordingly so no chance of falling off.

If you want to avoid falling off when the weather turns wintry then put the bike away in November and don't get it out again until April/May?


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## gavroche (11 Dec 2022)

cyberknight said:


> depends on the bike, a road bike with skinny tyres , no chance



That is what he was riding, road bike with skinny tyres.


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## Sharky (11 Dec 2022)

About 10yrs ago, when we had heavy snow, I commuted into work on fresh soft snow. Most of my office colleagues couldn't even get their cars out of their drives. It was fun and no problems. The next day though was a different story. Overnight, the snow had frozen and I only managed 100 yds, slipping and sliding on the frozon snow and ice. Had to turn back and work from home. 

Now retired and post a spill on black ice, will not venture out in sub zero conditions.


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## Andy in Germany (11 Dec 2022)

It's how I get to work, go shopping, visit family, so yes I do.

Do you drive a car in snow? Risky...


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## Alex321 (11 Dec 2022)

It depends on the snow, and other circumstances. Right at the moment, my wife is in hospital, so I am completely risk averse, and not taking the bike out if there is any chance at al of ice, but normally I will ride when it is snowing, or if there is thin SOFT snow on the roads. I won't if it has frozen overnight. - Which last night's snow has done, so I wouldn't be taking it out just now even in regular circumstances.


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## Sallar55 (11 Dec 2022)

Did you ever go youth hostelling in the winter when young. Sometimes it was white outside. You had no options , only way was to cycle home.. . People are getting soft today,😄


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## vickster (11 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> Do you drive a car in snow? Risky...



Not if I can help it, no


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## Vantage (11 Dec 2022)

Without studded tyres, I did when I was much younger. Actually enjoyed it too.
Not now. I don't bounce as well as I did then.
Studded tyres now though, yep. Although I'm still **** scared of hitting the deck.
A bigger worry is bell ends in cars etc. Those idiots struggle to control their cages in the dry. Give them ice and snow?


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## vickster (11 Dec 2022)

Sallar55 said:


> Did you ever go youth hostelling in the winter when young. Sometimes it was white outside. You had no options , only way was to cycle home.. . People are getting soft today,😄



No, I’ve never been youth hosteling 
(Actually I may have stayed in one in Italy when a student)


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## Andy in Germany (11 Dec 2022)

vickster said:


> Not if I can help it, no



Very wise.


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## Oldhippy (11 Dec 2022)

Absolutely!


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## sevenfourate (11 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> It's how I get to work, go shopping, visit family, so yes I do.
> 
> Do you drive a car in snow? Risky...



^^^Brilliant.


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## derrick (11 Dec 2022)

When i was commuting i rode all through the year no matter what, fell off a few time on the ice, but would not even think about it now i am retired.


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## Oldhippy (11 Dec 2022)

It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.


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## fossyant (11 Dec 2022)

Having come off on black ice I'm cautious about it, and another fall would have my better half going mental. I invested in studded tyres 12 years ago for the old MTB, and for commuting I still took an off road route when it was icy even when road commuting - you don't want to be riding near slip sliding cars. On my current route you'd be mad to ride it (with standard tyres) when it's icy - there is a significant amount of water run off across any of the tarmac sections, which turns to solid ice - piece of cake with studded tyres though.

I must say I do enjoy a crisp cold morning, but it's done with the right equipment.

I do tend to avoid going anywhere in the car if it's thick snow - more for preserving my car from the idiots out there. That said, it was great yesterday in the Mrs' car with All Season tyres on - fabulous grip in the snow.


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## Neilka (11 Dec 2022)

Also, the riders experience counts. Someone who's been on two wheels for years has a different understanding of how the bike reacts.
Slower and no clips 👍🏽


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## geocycle (11 Dec 2022)

I do two distinct forms of cycling, utility/commute and leisure rides. There was way too much ice and snow about this weekend to get the Spa out. But tomorrow I’ll probably be on the Thorn to work sticking to the gritted main roads rather than the cycle paths and quiet routes.


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## Ian H (11 Dec 2022)

I've had a few skiddy moments, particularly on black ice, but never actually come off on snow or ice.


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## I like Skol (11 Dec 2022)

Ian H said:


> I've had a few skiddy moments, particularly on black ice, but never actually come off on snow or ice.
> View attachment 670759



Is that Gospel Pass?


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## Andy in Germany (11 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.



I think it's an unfortunate side effect of car culture. The inherently dangerous nature of a transport system based on cars is ignored along with the other disadvantages, so people have a false sense of security in a two ton box. The consequences can be seen on our roads every day, but especially in winter.


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## Ian H (11 Dec 2022)

I like Skol said:


> Is that Gospel Pass?



It is.


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## biggs682 (11 Dec 2022)

Up to this winter I would have on a frost but not this year as just not worth it


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## biggs682 (11 Dec 2022)

Sallar55 said:


> Did you ever go youth hostelling in the winter when young. Sometimes it was white outside. You had no options , only way was to cycle home.. . People are getting soft today,😄



Many a time in my teens with the Kidderminster CTC and I don't remember any of them having heating


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## cougie uk (11 Dec 2022)

gavroche said:


> I know a PE teacher who did a 60 kms ride yesterday on such roads. His only comments were : " It was bloody cold. " My answer to that was; " Do you have a death wish".
> I know he is in his late 20"s , very keen rider and possibly oblivious to the dangers and I am considerably older and fully aware of the dangers but even so, common sense should prevail I think.



Nope. With age comes knowledge. I'd rather skip a ride than risk being out for weeks with a broken bone.


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## Always Cross (11 Dec 2022)

I was out yesterday on three wheels though wouldn’t gone out on 2 wheels this old body doesn’t bounce well now


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## Big John (11 Dec 2022)

Went out for three hours this morning but it was a balmy 1C, so pretty toasty. Roads were good for the most part. Obviously you have to be careful but it's winter and I don't want to be stuck in the garage on rollers if I can help it. I wouldn't go out if there was ice on the roads. I bought a mountain bike about 10 years ago to use off road if the weather got too bad but rarely use it.


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## presta (11 Dec 2022)

Yes and no.

I went out in any weather, but after riding (or walking) gingerly over the ice to the main road at the top of the estate, I stuck to roads that had been salted. A couple in a BMW once stopped to offer me a lift when they saw me covered in snow in a blizzard, I didn't dare tell them there was nowhere to take me, because I was just leisure riding. When I got home, there was so much snow on the spokes it made the wheels like disc wheels.


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## bobzmyunkle (11 Dec 2022)

All the people I was heading out with today cancelled. I'm one of the more senior members of my riding group so I'll accept that I should be one of the more sensible and follow their example. (At the same time I have a sneaking suspicion that all this Zwift stuff is making people soft).


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## wafter (11 Dec 2022)

Nope. 

The thought of going out in such conditions fills me with dread tbh; although most of my bikes have skinny and / or slick / near-slick tyres. I'd probably look upon it a bit more favourably if I was on knobblies riding on rough ground with fresh snow. 

It's something I'll probably have to face if I ever get to escape this bloody village though, as I plan to commute on the bike if I make it back to the city.

I think, as @cyberknight suggests, if tyres are appropriate and it's fresh snow you're OK, but ice is going to be a killer. 

Sadly I've not ridden for 2wks and with the weather as it is / roads as they are I can't see this changing any time soon..


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## cyberknight (11 Dec 2022)

bobzmyunkle said:


> All the people I was heading out with today cancelled. I'm one of the more senior members of my riding group so I'll accept that I should be one of the more sensible and follow their example. (At the same time I have a sneaking suspicion that all this Strava stuff is making people soft).


all road club rides cancelled this weekend too for me


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## tyred (11 Dec 2022)

I got caught out on black ice one Sunday afternoon about ten years ago and ended up going down a hill on my side. I wasn't hurt. 

What scared me was standing up, picking up the bike and then seeing a Honda Accord coming sideways down the road towards me and me having to jump into hedge and hope for the best. 

It made me realise that you can control yourself up to a point but you never know when someone is about to lose control of a car.


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## Vantage (11 Dec 2022)

Even with studded snow tyres I find I'm struggling to keep upright. It's not the ice or snow specifically, but the way it's been churned up by millions of feet and car tyres. It sends the bikes tyres all over the place. Sketchy at best.


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## a.twiddler (11 Dec 2022)

When I was younger I did go hostelling and had some great rides in fresh snow. It's quite predictable and enjoyable as long as it doesn't get deep enough to start clogging your mudguards. Once it has turned into ruts caused by other traffic, not so good. Other traffic is not your friend. If it freezes overnight, it becomes virtually impossible to ride.

Having said all that, now I have access to a recumbent delta trike with a double freewheel, I'm looking forward to having a go on selected routes.


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## Illaveago (11 Dec 2022)

I went out for a short ride earlier to Christen my Zelos it has 700x23c tyres. I only did about 600 yds but it was fine in the fresh snow . We have about 1.5 to 2 inches of snow . I find that it is best to ride in snow with a narrow front tyre to cut through the snow. I went out a few years ago in 3 to 4 inches of snow on a mountain bike but found that the side tyres made it hard to steer . Crossing ruts is the tricky bit .


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## pawl (11 Dec 2022)

Back in the day when I rode with Loughborough CTC I can’t remember a club run being called off.

The one winter ride I remember well.It was aSaturday afternoon My self and my mate headed out to meet up with the rest of the club at Ilam Hall YH .They had gone up on the morning Dave couldn’t get away earlier as his dad’s shop didn’t close till mid day
We decided to stop in Ashbourne for a meal.When we left it was snowing heavily Anyone who knows Ashbourne will be aware of the steep hill out of Ashbourne It had become impossible to ride . Conditions till the Dovedale turn off weren’t to bad.However the decent to Ilam was really dodgy so it was back to walking.
Would I ride in the current icy conditions at my age no way . Turbo for me.Fresh snow I might give it a try My problem is I feel the cold a lot more at my age


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## Alex321 (11 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.



Why does that surprise you? A small patch of ice, a car will be over it before it causes any real problem, but a bike will be on its side.

Plus, if somebody else loses control of their box on wheels and hits you, if you are in your own box, you have some protection. On a bike, you don't.


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## Gwylan (11 Dec 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> View attachment 670755



Beautiful. Did a suitability test in weather like that. Expected to be trekking and bivvying. 
Turned up and we got given bikes and instructions. Bergen and bike do not mix. Snowed throughout the 3 day evasion test. The bikes went over hedges in day 2 and we went hors piste.
Meant the pursuit had to get out of their heated vehicles to find us.


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## cougie uk (11 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.



I can barely walk out of my street it's that slippy. No normal tyres bike stands a chance. 

The main roads are gritted though so I only have to drive a hundred yards or so to clear roads. 

My bike would fall over. A car is very unlikely to.


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## kingrollo (11 Dec 2022)

Nah - to damm old ! - top up on the spin bike and gym.

This cold snap will have probably passed in 3 weeks - a broken bone could take months to get over - just doesn't add up to me. 

Although much respect to those who do go out.


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## Phaeton (11 Dec 2022)

We have a horse & a pony (or rather the daughter has) 1 mile away from our house, I've ridden up to the field just about every day for nearly the last 2 years around 7am to let them out into the field, never given it a thought about not riding because of snow, I have I will to admit I hate riding in the rain & if too heavy will take the car, but that has only been a hand full in all that time. Now whether I'd go out for a leisure ride, not too sure.


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## ChrisEyles (11 Dec 2022)

Not if I can avoid it, especially on a road bike. 

Mountain biking off road in these conditions is usually fine though, you don't really get the same build up of slick ice on rough off road surfaces. 

I've come off a few times on black ice when I had no option but to commute on a road bike throughout winter, and IMO there's not always a great deal you can do to avoid it, regardless of skill level, once it gets past a certain level of iciness and a patch catches you unawares.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

Ian H said:


> I've had a few skiddy moments, particularly on black ice, but never actually come off on snow or ice.
> View attachment 670759



Gospel Pass?


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## rivers (11 Dec 2022)

Normally I wouldn't and would either take public transport or drive. This week leaves me with no other option besides riding to and from work. My wife is away with the car, and there are train strikes. Buses in Bristol have become so unreliable there's no point in even trying. I'll never make it to work.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

Yes, but it has to be fresh, not melted due to gritting and refrozen as lumpy slush ice. What is far more dangerous is sub zero with freezing fog, which often translates to thin clear layers of ice over the tarmac.


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## winjim (11 Dec 2022)

The Peak District's beautiful in the snow. Old pictures now unfortunately but I did start a winter ride thread at the time.


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## Profpointy (11 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:


> It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.



On four wheels, assuming you're not going like a twat, if you skid a bit at modest speed, then nothing much happens. On two wheels, if you you skid a bit, then you are more than like on your arse. If ridden my motorcycle in snow maybe 3 times, and it was exceedingly unpleasant and dangerous though I got away with it. Push bike likewise though did come off on sheet ice - which I'd seen so was unhurt. Car - use a bit of sense and slow down, maybe slow down a lot, and it's really not big deal


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## cyberknight (11 Dec 2022)

and its pretty unlikely unless your unlucky if a car that all 4 wheels will be on the ice at the same time


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## Brandane (11 Dec 2022)

I have a MTB with Schwalbe ice spike tyres fitted which I will use, but it's not great for anything other than short distances. 

No way am I risking another off on black ice, after suffering one about 7 years ago and landing on my left hip. I am still suffering the after effects of that. It didn't break, but next time I might not be so lucky. Just not worth it.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

The bike tyre marks left in the snow


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

A snow covered off road Sustrans route


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## Pat "5mph" (11 Dec 2022)

I tried to walk out of my not gritted housing estate a couple of hours ago: impossible, even though I had those grippy shoe thimgmies on.
The ice is thick, more than yesterday evening, maybe because there was light rain.
But tomorrow, just before 7am, I will cycle to work on my studded tyres, I don't have a choice.
The main road will be fine, once I get to it.


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## Ian H (11 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Gospel Pass?


Gospel Pass indeed.

In fact I did once come off on ice. It was about 55 years ago, riding a Raleigh shopper.


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## GuyBoden (11 Dec 2022)

Just don't brake.


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## ChrisEyles (11 Dec 2022)

Or steer


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## Bollo (11 Dec 2022)

No


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## cosmicbike (11 Dec 2022)

Up until last year, yes, cycle commuted all year round and just took it easy. A year older and wiser and I'm afraid I have been in the car the last 3 shifts, very icy on the roads just scraping the car off so not worth it.


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## Jenkins (11 Dec 2022)

Not on a road bike as your PE teacher did, but I certainly have done on a MTB or wide tyred hybrid if the conditions were right - fresh, soft snow on top of dry roads or where it had fallen on top of previous snowfall. Where it's lying on top of ice, rutted or compressed/frozen snow then most likely not, but never say never as I've done a few miles with the roads like this in the past ...


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## slowmotion (11 Dec 2022)

Sometimes. It depends if I think that there might be a layer of ice underneath. If not, I'll go cautiously.


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## ColinJ (11 Dec 2022)

I went out on my MTB on New Year's Day once and crashed on ice 3 times in an hour! It made me more cautious about offroad winter riding.

Mind you, it didn't seem to put me off doing _some _winter road rides...








slowmotion said:


> Sometimes. It depends if I think that there might be a layer of ice underneath. If not, I'll go cautiously.


I went out on a winter ride with @Littgull a few years back. We were aware that there might be problems with ice, but managed to avoid it...

... until we _didn't_! 

We were on a very minor road and very suddenly came upon a sheet of black ice across its width. He managed to carry on across.


GuyBoden said:


> Just don't brake.


I didn't touch the brakes...


ChrisEyles said:


> Or steer


... but the merest hint of steering had my front wheel slide from under me and I went down fast, and HARD! It was lucky that it did happen so quickly because I didn't have time to react. My hands were still on the bike and I landed on my left side, completely relaxed. Because I hadn't stuck an arm out or tensed up my entire left side took the impact, which it was able to do without injury. It shook me up though, so I was extra vigilant after that and have avoided icy conditions since then.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

ChrisEyles said:


> Or steer



Unless you have very straight roads you are going to need to steer round bends in the snow.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Dec 2022)

GuyBoden said:


> Just don't brake.



Unless there are no junctions, you will need to brake in the snow. Just keep it smooth , don’t grab them, and plan ahead for longer stops.


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## Gwylan (11 Dec 2022)

My bike has "custom" tyres. They look like slicks. But they do grip. Out today in rain, earlier ice and then snow.

Seemed to cope but I remain suspicious of what might happen if things go off.

Last time I had a serious bike incident I was 20 years younger and fitter Still spent time in hospital. Despite a helmet my head took it badly. Broke several bones in my hand too. 
Ruined my skiing season too.


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## a.twiddler (11 Dec 2022)

The problem is, even when riding in a straight line you actually describe a series of elongated S shaped curves to enable you to balance. You only have to see your wheel tracks in the snow to see the slight deviation either side of your actual course made by the front wheel followed by the much straighter course of the rear. All well and good as long as there is even a minimal degree of grip but once you get below the minimum level there is not enough leverage between the front tyre and the road to keep your centre of balance between your wheels, no matter how straight your course, and down you go. A bit of camber, a ripple in the road, let alone a rut, and some ice or oil will do it.

Despite all this, in the right conditions, you can have a lot of fun on a bike in the snow.


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## Stephenite (12 Dec 2022)

You're mard, the lot of you.

Edit: I’m not serious.


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## slowmotion (12 Dec 2022)

When you get it wrong, it's all over very quickly. Not even a split second to wonder how painful it's going to be. I suppose that's a bit of a mercy really.


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## freiston (12 Dec 2022)

Yes but conditions can vary greatly and there's a good degree of "suck it and see". Also, one has to consider the distance and how the weather might change/progress during the ride. I find ice without snow more challenging.

Back in the 90s, I finished work at 10:00 p.m. and whilst at work, a thin layer of snow had settled. I have never known snow like it before or since: it was slippery like ice and some drivers didn't get their cars out of the factory gates (it was a maintenance shift and not many workers - I can't recall how they got home). I had an old road bike with <32mm tyres but I only had a mile to go and decided to try to do it with the challenge of not falling off. The road out of the factory went down a relatively steep short hill and I was gingerly going down, making sure I didn't gather too much speed before the junction ahead. A Land Rover driver behind me lost control, slid his back end out and came down the hill on the diagonal, pointing to the right (i.e. pointing diagonal to the direction of travel). He was moving very slowly but hit me with the left-hand side and I went down slowly, keeping the car at arm and leg's length, pushing against it until we got to the bottom and he stopped. The bike and I were fine but the driver was really shook up.

Last year, I went out in this on my 32mm road tyres - a bit deeper than a thin layer but lovely.


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## sevenfourate (12 Dec 2022)

I'm actually looking forward to getting the MTB out; off-road; and on some fresh snow.

Anything else / on the roads / after a cold night for the sub-layer to freeze etc - that's most certainly a no from me.......

Kudos to those that do though !


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## mustang1 (12 Dec 2022)

I have in the past. But not any more.


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## cyberknight (12 Dec 2022)

Luckily where I am no proper snow and although not above freezing all weekend any patches of ice have been worn away by traffic so fairly safe


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## matticus (12 Dec 2022)

Oldhippy said:
It amazes me constantly that someone will happily get in a two ton box and drive in bad weather but are stunned at those of us who cycle as transport will do the same. We still have to shop, visit people, work and so on.



Profpointy said:


> On four wheels, assuming you're not going like a twat, if you skid a bit at modest speed, then nothing much happens. On two wheels, if you you skid a bit, then you are more than like on your arse. If ridden my motorcycle in snow maybe 3 times, and it was exceedingly unpleasant and dangerous though I got away with it. Push bike likewise though did come off on sheet ice - which I'd seen so was unhurt. Car - use a bit of sense and slow down, maybe slow down a lot, and it's really not big deal



If you look at the potential risk to OTHERS, cycling is indeed more sensible than driving in bad conditions.

[I have a slightly different view to most cyclists, in having been to ICU after a car+ice crash! But that's a different topic, and I'd probably walk away from the same accident in a modern car ...]


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## fossyant (12 Dec 2022)

This is how you do it. Fortunately I got the Ice Spiker Pro's on discount, something like £75 each now


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## Regular.Cyclist (12 Dec 2022)

Never set out in such conditions but have been caught out on club rides a few times.

Tend to avoid heading out when it nears freezing point as I don’t bounce as well as I used to.


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## Dogtrousers (12 Dec 2022)

Sometimes, because I live in London and most roads are cleared pretty quickly. But I don't go out if it's actually snowing. And I stick to known gritted roads.


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## T4tomo (12 Dec 2022)

I like Skol said:


> If it is snowy then you expect it and ride accordingly so no chance of falling off.



Really, no chance?


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## matticus (12 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Why does that surprise you? A small patch of ice, a car will be over it before it causes any real problem, but a bike will be on its side.
> 
> Plus, if somebody else loses control of their box on wheels and hits you, if you are in your own box, you have some protection. On a bike, you don't.



_Fri 4 Aug 2006:_
Robert Harris, 47, was driving on the A547 near Abergele, north Wales, in January when his Toyota Corolla skidded on black ice and collided with riders from Rhyl Cycling Club who were out on an early morning training exercise. The car hit the riders with such force that two of them were thrown over a wall into a field.

Those killed were Maurice Broadbent, the club's chairman; Dave Horrocks, 49; Wayne Wilkes, 42; and 14-year-old Thomas Harland. The teenager's father, Jon, also part of the group of 12, suffered a broken leg and saw his son die.


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## Sharky (12 Dec 2022)

ColinJ said:


> ... but the merest hint of steering had my front wheel slide from under me and I went down fast, and HARD!


One of the most painful spills I've had was just this. Riding up a slight incline on a frosty road at no more than walking pace and down I want. My hip took most of the impact and it hurt for days afterwards.


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## palinurus (12 Dec 2022)

Fresh snow? yes- I can't resist it

Other kinds of snow? It depends.


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## AlanW (12 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> This is how you do it. Fortunately I got the Ice Spiker Pro's on discount, something like £75 each now



You and me both


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## Littgull (12 Dec 2022)

ColinJ said:


> I went out on my MTB on New Year's Day once and crashed on ice 3 times in an hour! It made me more cautious about offroad winter riding.
> 
> Mind you, it didn't seem to put me off doing _some _winter road rides...
> 
> ...



Oh crikey, yes I remember that Colin. A lucky escape from injury. It was in Ship Lane very near Grains Bar. A very quiet moorland lane high up above Oldham, Denshaw and Delph.

A 'like' for the timely warning to CC'ers not for the fall.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Dec 2022)

You all need a bike like mine that’s stays upright on its own.


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## Bazzer (12 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> _Fri 4 Aug 2006:_
> Robert Harris, 47, was driving on the A547 near Abergele, north Wales, in January when his Toyota Corolla skidded on black ice and collided with riders from Rhyl Cycling Club who were out on an early morning training exercise. The car hit the riders with such force that two of them were thrown over a wall into a field.
> 
> Those killed were Maurice Broadbent, the club's chairman; Dave Horrocks, 49; Wayne Wilkes, 42; and 14-year-old Thomas Harland. The teenager's father, Jon, also part of the group of 12, suffered a broken leg and saw his son die.


I couldn't understand why there would be black ice in August as shown, but the incident happened in January of that year.
The driver had defective tyres and from the report it is suggested he was speeding.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (12 Dec 2022)

Well, I made it to work and back.
The challenge, this morning at 7am, was how to get out of my housing estate.
I have now gritted a way out for me tomorrow.
I've got the Marathon Winters on the MB, not the Spikers like @fossyant, so I wasn't risking any shared pavements, I took the road all the way.
At a particularly iffy junction, I dismounted, slowly walked the bike along the pedestrian way.
No doubt there was some ice on the roads early this morning, but the studded tyres did their job.
Our pavements and segregated cycling routes are now a thick sheet of ice.
I feel for frail people, stuck inside for 2 weeks now.
I would gladly pay extra council tax to have segregated walking and cycling routes, and pavements of course, gritted during an icy spell.


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## PaulSB (12 Dec 2022)

A local news report at 19.00 brought this thread to mind. NW ambulance service broadcast an appeal at 7.00pm this evening. Please only call 999 in a life threatening situation. 100 ambulances are queuing at various A&E departments and 600 people are awaiting an ambulance to attend their own 999 call.

I know of two recreational cyclists who went out at the weekend; one spent 7 hours in A&E and the other broke a hip.

If cycling is your only possible form of transport I can understand riding. If the ride is for any form of recreational use then I'd suggest the rider is a part of the problem and has given no thought to the potential consequences of a selfish action and attitude.


----------



## roubaixtuesday (12 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> If cycling is your only possible form of transport I can understand riding. If the ride is for any form of recreational use then I'd suggest the rider is a part of the problem and has given no thought to the potential consequences of a selfish action and attitude.



I do hope you have the exact same attitude for drivers and walkers. 

Personally I had a very pleasurable and very safe ride for purely recreational purposes this morning. Certainly safer than driving or walking.


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## oldwheels (12 Dec 2022)

Profpointy said:


> On four wheels, assuming you're not going like a twat, if you skid a bit at modest speed, then nothing much happens. On two wheels, if you you skid a bit, then you are more than like on your arse. If ridden my motorcycle in snow maybe 3 times, and it was exceedingly unpleasant and dangerous though I got away with it. Push bike likewise though did come off on sheet ice - which I'd seen so was unhurt. Car - use a bit of sense and slow down, maybe slow down a lot, and it's really not big deal



Where I live you have very little leeway and if you skid in a car as some did this morning you end up off road upside down. One gritting lorry went into a ditch this morning to add to the troubles.


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## PaulSB (12 Dec 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I do hope you have the exact same attitude for drivers and walkers.
> 
> Personally I had a very pleasurable and very safe ride for purely recreational purposes this morning. Certainly safer than driving or walking.



Yes, I would say so. Generally main roads are safe for cars in the current conditions so I don't see a problem this week. If by walking you mean heading off on to the moors, hills etc, which is my idea of walking, then I would say no, stay at home.

As for cycling the riding I do is for pleasure, the roads I use aren't even close to fit for riding at present.

We were due at a social event this evening, organised by our walking group, but we've stayed home.

I've cancelled a social event I was hosting this coming Thursday because I consider the ½ mile access road too risky at present to ask people to walk or drive on. I practice what I preach.

It's your choice but in my view a selfish one.


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## Fastpedaller (12 Dec 2022)

Andy in Germany said:


> It's how I get to work, go shopping, visit family, so yes I do.
> 
> Do you drive a car in snow? Risky...



Yes, risky - but not as risky as a bike. You can't fall off a car!


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> It's your choice but in my view a selfish one.



Enjoy the view from atop that fine horse of yours.

I'll enjoy the frozen countryside. On my bike, and on foot too.


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Dec 2022)

Mountain rescue winter advice: "enjoy your time in the hills but stay safe!"


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## roubaixtuesday (12 Dec 2022)

Fastpedaller said:


> Yes, risky - but not as risky as a bike. You can't fall off a car!



No. But you can skid into someone else and will cause far more damage than if you were on a bike.


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## Vantage (12 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> A local news report at 19.00 brought this thread to mind. NW ambulance service broadcast an appeal at 7.00pm this evening. Please only call 999 in a life threatening situation. 100 ambulances are queuing at various A&E departments and 600 people are awaiting an ambulance to attend their own 999 call.
> 
> I know of two recreational cyclists who went out at the weekend; one spent 7 hours in A&E and the other broke a hip.
> 
> If cycling is your only possible form of transport I can understand riding. If the ride is for any form of recreational use then I'd suggest the rider is a part of the problem and has given no thought to the potential consequences of a selfish action and attitude.



I have to disagree strongly on this. How many of those ambulances where called unnecessarily? How many of those 600 people have an actual need for an ambulance?
Of the necessary needs for ambulances, how many cases are the result of pure stupidity? Anger? Impatience? Drink? Other people's actions? Unrelated in any way to the weather conditions or travelling in it?
I know there are some pretty simple minded muppets out there putting themselves at risk but that doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have a clue as to the situations we put ourselves into and take the necessary precautions to minimise risk. 
Just because Tim can't ride a bike in a straight line doesn't mean Tom can't.


----------



## HLaB (12 Dec 2022)

> Do you go on your bike when the roads are covered with thin snow ?​



Depends where it is. Back home (Scotland) I've cycled lots of times in the snow but down here (East England) I wouldn't go out if its anywhere near zero; the roads just aren't treated well. One consolation components last longer down here.


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## PaulSB (12 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> I have to disagree strongly on this. How many of those ambulances where called unnecessarily? How many of those 600 people have an actual need for an ambulance?
> Of the necessary needs for ambulances, how many cases are the result of pure stupidity? Anger? Impatience? Drink? Other people's actions? Unrelated in any way to the weather conditions or travelling in it?
> I know there are some pretty simple minded muppets out there putting themselves at risk but that doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have a clue as to the situations we put ourselves into and take the necessary precautions to minimise risk.
> Just because Tim can't ride a bike in a straight line doesn't mean Tom can't.



And once you've minimised the risk, fallen off, broken a hip who are you going to call?

As for all the ambulance needs you list. I agree but I can only report what the NW ambulance service requested.


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## PaulSB (12 Dec 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Enjoy the view from atop that fine horse of yours.
> 
> I'll enjoy the frozen countryside. On my bike, and on foot too.
> 
> View attachment 670920



I'll ask you the same question. If things go wrong who are you going to call?


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## Vantage (12 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> And once you've minimised the risk, fallen off, broken a hip who are you going to call?



If I thought like that I'd never get out of bed. 
There's risk in everything you do. How much risk to take is up to the individual. How much is too much varies wildly from one extreme to another. It isn't up to you or I to decide what that level is and certainly no one has any right to label someone else as being selfish because they have a different view of how much is too much.
I'll continue to ride my bike in whatever conditions I see fit until I see myself as a risk or several other people point it out. I'll not be judged on it either.


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## freiston (12 Dec 2022)

Cycling on a busy city road when you could travel more safely in a bus or car? It's totally irresponsible behaviour if you cycle instead of taking the bus or the car in a city - that makes you part of the problem and you have given no thought to the potential consequences of a selfish action and attitude. Same goes for people who dare to leave the safety of their homes for anything recreational - there's just no need for it and it creates unnecessary risk.


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## Vantage (12 Dec 2022)

freiston said:


> Same goes for people who dare to leave the safety of their homes for anything recreational - there's just no need for it and it creates unnecessary risk.


Can't even do that. The risk of obesity, heart disease, stroke from a lack of exercise etc etc.
Damned if we do. Damned if we don't.
I might just get myself cryogenically frozen.
Feck. Risk of hypothermia when it's defrost time.


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## Jameshow (12 Dec 2022)

Nope not been out on the bike since cold snap began..

Won't until it's over too. 

Don't feel too porky yet, Christmas eating coming so will have to get back on it.. ! 

Week in Devon coming up and possible new years tour!


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## Alex321 (12 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I'll ask you the same question. If things go wrong who are you going to call?



Why are you posting in this forum if you never ever go out on your bike?

Because it is NEVER risk-free, so if you really do "practice what you preach", you will never do any leisure cycling at all.


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## rualexander (13 Dec 2022)

This was a few years ago but a fine example of the superiority of a bike with studded tyres over motor vehicles with numpties at the wheel.


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## matticus (13 Dec 2022)

As with many issues, there is a sensible middle-ground here. 

And then there are comments like this:


freiston said:


> Same goes for people who dare to leave the safety of their homes for anything recreational - there's just no need for it and it creates unnecessary risk.


----------



## Solocle (13 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> As with many issues, there is a sensible middle-ground here.
> 
> And then there are comments like this:



Surely that's the point being made, though?
Different people's middle grounds are different.
In certain circumstances, I'll happily ride on trunk dual carriageways like the A303...




As opposed to the other route I could easily have taken, the A30. Which is a nice quiet road that I did use last time I rode the same general route...




In terms of risk, the A30 is surely substantially safer.

But the A303 was quiet *enough *that it didn't feel particularly dangerous, so I tossed up between the two routes. I decided that the convenience of roadside services that would actually be open at 3-5 am and higher quality road outweighed the slightly increased risk of sudden death. Passing Stonehenge was an added bonus.

Neither route is risk free, nothing is. So it then becomes a question of individual choice.


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## T4tomo (13 Dec 2022)

rualexander said:


> This was a few years ago but a fine example of the superiority of a bike with studded tyres over motor vehicles with numpties at the wheel.
> View attachment 670926



Looks like you dazzled them off the road with your pink top🤣


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## Alex321 (13 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> As with many issues, there is a sensible middle-ground here.
> 
> And then there are comments like this:



I think that post was made to make the point (as was mine in a more direct way) that you can't just make the sort of blanket statements PaulSB was making.


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## freiston (13 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> As with many issues, there is a sensible middle-ground here.
> 
> And then there are comments like this:



My intention was to parody a post further up and take it to that conclusion to make a point; I actually strongly disagree with the part you quoted. Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## gavroche (13 Dec 2022)

rualexander said:


> This was a few years ago but a fine example of the superiority of a bike with studded tyres over motor vehicles with numpties at the wheel.
> View attachment 670926



Maybe they were just moving out of the way to let you through?


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## matticus (13 Dec 2022)

freiston said:


> My intention was to parody a post further up and take it to that conclusion to make a point; I actually strongly disagree with the part you quoted. Sorry for any misunderstanding.



Ah, jolly good! 
(It was the bus bit that confused me - it might well be sensible to take the bus instead of cycle, for certain circs, etc etc ... )


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## FishFright (13 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> I have to disagree strongly on this. *How many of those ambulances where called unnecessarily? How many of those 600 people have an actual need for an ambulance?*
> Of the necessary needs for ambulances, how many cases are the result of pure stupidity? Anger? Impatience? Drink? Other people's actions? Unrelated in any way to the weather conditions or travelling in it?
> I know there are some pretty simple minded muppets out there putting themselves at risk but that doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have a clue as to the situations we put ourselves into and take the necessary precautions to minimise risk.
> Just because Tim can't ride a bike in a straight line doesn't mean Tom can't.



No idea, do you ?


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## Vantage (13 Dec 2022)

FishFright said:


> No idea, do you ?



Surprisingly, I actually have no clue. Hence why I asked.


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## PaulSB (13 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Why are you posting in this forum if you never ever go out on your bike?
> 
> Because it is NEVER risk-free, so if you really do "practice what you preach", you will never do any leisure cycling at all.



This is a rather silly remark. Generally I ride 120-150 miles a week. There is a very real difference to cycling under normal conditions when incidents can and do occur to riding in adverse conditions such as snow and ice when the likelihood of an incident is significantly increased.

Ignoring the increased potential puts oneself at greater risk and potentially increases the workload for emergency services and the NHS.

Ask yourself this. If the ambulance service is prioritising life threatening situations how long would you like to wait by the roadside with, say, a broken leg or fractured collarbone?

I'm 68 now and very aware a broken bone could put me off the bike for 3 months or so. Why risk that for an hour in the snow?


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## Alex321 (13 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> This is a rather silly remark. Generally I ride 120-150 miles a week. There is a very real difference to cycling under normal conditions when incidents can and do occur to riding in adverse conditions such as snow and ice when the likelihood of an incident is significantly increased.
> 
> Ignoring the increased potential puts oneself at greater risk and potentially increases the workload for emergency services and the NHS.
> 
> ...



Of course it was a silly remark. But it was just an extension of what you were saying.

All cycling carries some risk. Different conditions pose different levels of risk, but where each of us draws the line at the level we are prepared to accept is very much an individual decision.

And the presence of snow doesn't *automatically* make it riskier, though it often will, particularly on road.

But the point I was really making is that it isn't up to you to decide for others what they are prepared to risk. Nor is it any more "selfish" to accept any gioven level thgan a small amount less - and then how on earth do you decide at what point it is becoming selfish?


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## freiston (13 Dec 2022)

So there's a risk in nigh on any activity and there are conditions that can increase the risk. There are also activities that in good conditions might still have a higher risk than other activities in bad conditions - I certainly consider my risk of injury cycling on a busy urban road in good weather to be far greater than the risk on the country lanes I ride on with a little bit of snow. Then there are people who just aren't as "safe" as other people. Until something happens, it is just risk and nothing might happen at all.

What really gets my goat is when someone tells me that _they_ have decided what the threshold of acceptable risk is for _me_ and that they have then deemed me selfish for crossing that threshold - I'm an experienced cyclist with experience of cycling in pretty much any weather that we get where I live. This is not jumping red lights or playing chicken with motor vehicles kind of risk exacerbation - it is going about my usual life in ordinary weather. I make my own decisions vis-a-vis risk taking and I've pretty much done well by it by my reckoning. I avoid busy fast roads that other members of this forum might be quite happy to ride on but I wouldn't tell them they are guilty of putting themselves at greater risk and potentially increasing the workload for emergency services and the NHS. I certainly wouldn't be so much up my own derrière whilst on my high horse to call them selfish for doing so.


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## matticus (13 Dec 2022)

I'm getting deja vu here - anyone remember the "cycling for more than an hour" debates?


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## roubaixtuesday (13 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> I'm getting deja vu here - anyone remember the "cycling for more than an hour" debates?



Exact same thing struck me. Mustn't go out for fear of a mechanical!


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Why does that surprise you? A small patch of ice, a car will be over it before it causes any real problem, but a bike will be on its side.
> 
> Plus, if somebody else loses control of their box on wheels and hits you, if you are in your own box, you have some protection. On a bike, you don't.



A good reason for not heading out in your box in snowy conditions


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## roubaixtuesday (13 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> A good reason for not heading out in your box in snowy conditions



It almost suggests that heading out in your box would be a _selfish_ thing to do...


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Dec 2022)

Fastpedaller said:


> Yes, risky - but not as risky as a bike. You can't fall off a car!



You can do this though , and that was without snow


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> I'll ask you the same question. If things go wrong who are you going to call?



If you fall over and break your hip at home , who are you going to call?


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> I might just get myself cryogenically frozen..



Cycle for long enough out there with insufficient clothing and you might get your wish


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## ColinJ (13 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You can do this though , and that was without snow
> 
> View attachment 670992



And that was a driver who _DID _go to Specsavers!


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## PaulSB (13 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If you fall over and break your hip at home , who are you going to call?



Ambulance service but then I haven't increased my risk of breaking a hip by riding in snow and ice.

It's quite beyond me why people cannot see cycling in such conditions increases personal risk and potentially risk for others or else find those risks acceptable. I don't know any real life cyclists who take similar risks, which makes me wonder.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Ambulance service but then I haven't increased my risk of breaking a hip by riding in snow and ice.



No but you might have increased your risk by trying to go up and down the stairs or cook in the kitchen


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## Mr Celine (13 Dec 2022)

Do you go on your bike when the roads are covered in snow?

Of course I do. 

























The last two, either side of the Swire on an early March evening, were as fun as they were unexpected (the road was ploughed lower down, but not to the top). 

My winter bike has 28mm slick gatorskins. Maintaining traction on uphills is a problem and descents have to be taken with care.

Who am I going to call? There's no signal up there in winter and strangely enough there isn't one in summer either. 
But slithering down the Swire on two wheels and two tip toes in nearly fifteen minutes carries far less risk of serious injury than belting down in under two and half minutes on the best bike on a summer evening.


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## PaulSB (14 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> No but you might have increased your risk by trying to go up and down the stairs or cook in the kitchen



That is a ridiculous statement and you know it. There is a difference between routines necessary to life and those which are not.

Clearly some cyclists refuse to see or chose to ignore snow and ice create an increased and entirely avoidable risk. Recreational cycling in these circumstances is at best foolhardy.

There's little point in continuing to post in this thread. 👋


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## Andy in Germany (14 Dec 2022)

Fastpedaller said:


> Yes, risky - but not as risky as a bike. You can't fall off a car!



I think it's fair to say that in all of these cases no-one fell *off *anything.



























I'm not sure that meant it was 'less risky' for those involved though.


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## Andy in Germany (14 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Yes, I would say so. Generally main roads are safe for cars in the current conditions so I don't see a problem this week. If by walking you mean heading off on to the moors, hills etc, which is my idea of walking, then I would say no, stay at home.
> 
> As for cycling the riding I do is for pleasure, the roads I use aren't even close to fit for riding at present.
> 
> ...



12 people are killed _per day_ on the roads in Germany, all year round. On that basis driving a car is inherently selfish when another option exists, because it results in unnecessary call-outs for the emergency services, in addition to the often ignored indirect healthcare costs caused by motor vehicle use.

In this context, this argument suggests we should be cracking down on selfish and unnecessary car use before we criticise cyclists for falling off their bike in the snow.


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## Brandane (14 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> If you fall over and break your hip at home , who are you going to call?



Hip-busters?


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## I like Skol (14 Dec 2022)

I'm sure it won't be long until this thread is 'frozen'.

As usual, the usual suspects have managed to turn it into a 'heated debate' where there was really no need.

Merry Christmas 🎄


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## Alex321 (14 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> That is a ridiculous statement and you know it. There is a difference between routines necessary to life and those which are not.
> 
> Clearly some cyclists refuse to see or chose to ignore snow and ice create an increased and entirely avoidable risk. Recreational cycling in these circumstances is at best foolhardy.


Clearly YOU refuse to see that this is not always true to any significant extent.

You have drawn an arbitrary line which has little to do with reality, and are trying to shame anybody who crosses it.



PaulSB said:


> There's little point in continuing to post in this thread. 👋



Probably not, with your entrenched and over-prescriptive view.


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## Solocle (14 Dec 2022)

Alex321 said:


> Clearly YOU refuse to see that this is not always true to any significant extent.
> 
> You have drawn an arbitrary line which has little to do with reality, and are trying to shame anybody who crosses it.
> 
> ...



Indeed, back on Saturday, I took my bike down to HMV. Essential Journey? No. But preferred being able to park my bike right outside to driving or walking. As for conditions, I was careful, and then I ordered these...


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## Vantage (14 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> Clearly some cyclists refuse to see or chose to ignore snow and ice create an increased and entirely avoidable risk. Recreational cycling in these circumstances is at best foolhardy.



Unless I've missed it, you haven't stated what these risks are so I'll go out on a limb and suggest it's slipping which leads to crashing which leads to injury which leads to paramedics. Or, due to similar circumstances, being hit by a driver. If I'm wrong, I'll happily be corrected.
This being the case, cycling in general according to you should be banned unless it's dry outside.
No more mountain biking as in my experience, wet rocks and grass are one of the biggest causes of lost traction. In fact, the sport/activity should be banned outright. Even in the dry. I mean, what kind of idiot blindly launches oneself down a rock strewn cliffside in the pursuit of fun? 
Road cycling should also be curtailed. How many cyclists cling to the corners of country lanes without thinking about the chances of hitting an oil slick or patch of leaves? That's just stupid.
While we're at it, no more ascents of Everest or k2. Might as well limit Ben Nevis to the general public too as it can be snow covered at times.
Then there's ice skating. There's an activity specifically done _because_ it's slippy. Madness.


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## Gwylan (14 Dec 2022)

Going to find how to ignore some people around here


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## biggs682 (14 Dec 2022)

Boy's come on behave please , we can't all agree on the same things all the time.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Dec 2022)

PaulSB said:


> That is a ridiculous statement and you know it.



The only ridiculous statement is that of saying there’s snow about best stay in otherwise you are bound to end up in A&E.


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## Sixmile (14 Dec 2022)

I absolutely love the snow now that I work from home and have a fattie in the shed. 

Some of my favourite rides over the last few years have been mid winter on this thing.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Dec 2022)

Sixmile said:


> I absolutely love the snow now that I work from home and have a fattie in the shed.
> 
> Some of my favourite rides over the last few years have been mid winter on this thing.
> 
> View attachment 671039



Is that a side boat mounted for passengers?


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## Vantage (14 Dec 2022)

biggs682 said:


> Boy's come on behave please , we can't all agree on the same things all the time.



No we can't and we're all entitled to our own opinions but someone branded those of us who like to play in the snow as selfish and foolhardy. That's taking it too far imo.


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## pawl (14 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The only ridiculous statement is that of saying there’s snow about best stay in otherwise you are bound to end up in A&E.



UP thread I did report on a youth hosteling week end in Derbyshire on a very snowy weekend 

Simple answer to your question no I don’t Mainly because I at my age I don’t bounce like I used to. 

Back in my youth yes I would along with the other club mate nutters.

I will now wait for comments of gross irresponsibility


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Dec 2022)

pawl said:


> UP thread I did report on a youth hosteling week end in Derbyshire on a very snowy weekend



I’m sure it was great fun, and in the right snow conditions it can be like Velcro with little chance of a bad crash.


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## a.twiddler (14 Dec 2022)

Even so, i expect velcro will soon come with a health warning once someone finds a way to injure themselves with it.


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## Dogtrousers (14 Dec 2022)

I took my bins out last night. 

Pretty daring. I'm an adrenalin junkie.


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## Jameshow (14 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Is that a side boat mounted for passengers?



Gratitous gloating over a motorists missfortune!🤣🤣🤣


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## MichaelW2 (14 Dec 2022)

Left the bike at home and took the bus to work. Yuk. 40 people got off the double decker in town before I got on and not one of them thought that opening a window was a good idea.


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## roubaixtuesday (14 Dec 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I took my bins out last night.
> 
> Pretty daring. I'm an adrenalin junkie.



You selfish bastard!


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## Vantage (14 Dec 2022)

Today despite a touch of pinkeye and a raging cold I decided to take the doggy out to the moors.
We both got home alive and uninjured.


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## biggs682 (14 Dec 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> I took my bins out last night.
> 
> Pretty daring. I'm an adrenalin junkie.



Can you do mine tonight please


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## Dogtrousers (14 Dec 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> You selfish bastard!



I know, taking the bins out is supposed to be my wife's job. I was hogging all the glory.


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## freiston (14 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> Today despite a touch of pinkeye and a raging cold I decided to take the doggy out to the moors.
> We both got home alive and uninjured.
> 
> View attachment 671045



Three cool flaps!


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## Vantage (14 Dec 2022)

freiston said:


> Three cool flaps!



Home made


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## freiston (14 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> Home made



Even the one on the bag?


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## Vantage (14 Dec 2022)

freiston said:


> Even the one on the bag?



The one smack bang in the middle? Nay, that's a carradice leather logo they did themselves. It's a green/tan Pendle.


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## Sixmile (14 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Is that a side boat mounted for passengers?



Don't be silly, that's the sleigh


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## a.twiddler (14 Dec 2022)

For fun in the snow, a motorbike with sidecar is hard to beat.


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## Oldhippy (14 Dec 2022)

I had a Ural military sidecar outfit for years and they were extremely good fun in mud or snow. Drifting was hysterical with two wheel or one wheel drive.


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## Solocle (14 Dec 2022)

Vantage said:


> Today despite a touch of pinkeye and a raging cold I decided to take the doggy out to the moors.
> We both got home alive and uninjured.
> 
> View attachment 671045



On Monday I walked to work. Getting on for 3 miles.



















Minimal risk of harming others, but far more of a slip and fall risk than driving down the gritted dual carriageway...


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## Teamfixed (14 Dec 2022)

I was reminiscing about this recently. A few years ago (in the 80's) I think we just used to ride in almost any conditions apart from hard frozen sheet ice, soft snow was no barrier. I certainly used to plow through getting to work riding fixed, not sure if that was better or not.
I went for a few jogs round the park early doors this week which was much safer!


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Dec 2022)

Just got in from 2 hours 15 mins of feeling alive. Great fun with winter tyres


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## Pat "5mph" (14 Dec 2022)

Solocle said:


> On Monday I walked to work. Getting on for 3 miles.





Solocle said:


> Minimal risk of harming others, but far more of a slip and fall risk than driving down the gritted dual carriageway...


Chapeau to you for walking 3 miles on those icy pavements: I tried to leave my housing estate on foot on Sunday, gave up.
Much safer riding the roads on my studded tyres!


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Dec 2022)

Another photo from today’s outing. This is once I’d reached gritted roads. A veritable winter wonderland. The average temp was -2C and min -4C. Grit is good down to -10C or so. Started sunny before freezing fog settled in. Enough to have lights on.


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## Petrichorwheels (14 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> MTB with studs yes, not worth the risk on the road. Our estate get's very icy as it's not gritted, so I'll take the MTB. Better than having a car slide into you.



I lead a bike ride once in home counties. No snow - had frozen overnight but we thought it clear by the time we set out.
Someone riding ahead had studded tyres and at moderate speed in a straight line fell off.
I will ride in all weathers, cold doesn't bother me but any chance of ice and I stay in.
(I once skidded off on black ice with someone else on a dark busy traffic road - we were OK but could so easily have been killed by a following driver it would have been difficult to blame - that incident was really the fault of the ride leader)


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## Caperider (14 Dec 2022)

Only my fat bike with an inch or two and usually in the woods. I live across from 1600 acres of conservation land and there just happens to be a trail across the street from me. Anything deeper causes issues with pedals hitting the snow.


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## fossyant (15 Dec 2022)

Four riders were killed one winter near Prestatyn in Wales due to a car skidding on ice. Car slid into a club run ! Be careful. Minus NINE this morning.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> Chapeau to you for walking 3 miles on those icy pavements:



In Finland they prioritise clearing pavements and cycleways. Plus some of the cycle ways are heated to keep them clear. Different priorities for ways of moving about.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> Four riders were killed one winter near Prestatyn in Wales due to a car skidding on ice. driver behaving recklessly in the conditions. Car slid into a club run ! Be careful. Minus NINE this morning.



_The driver of the car involved in the crash, Mr. Robert Alan Harris, *admitted that he was driving too fast for the weather conditions*. His car had three defective tyres. A collision expert, PC George Skinner, blamed Mr. Harris for failing to drive at an appropriate speed for the road conditions. The ice on the road was patchy and there were enough dry patches for Mr. Harris to regain control of his vehicle. PC Skinner said that if Mr. Harris had paid attention to the freezing conditions and not driven at 55mph, which was his estimated speed before the crash, it might not have happened. He said:

“It would have to be accepted that he failed to observe the ambient temperature display in his vehicle. He set off on his journey having scraped ice off the window of his car, and subsequently drove through countryside where visible frost lay.”

He also said:

*“He drove in an inappropriate manner for the prevailing conditions”*

but added:

“In my opinion, there was sufficient grip available to the driver to control the vehicle. Had he driven according to the prevailing road conditions, as had the vast majority of motorists before this collision, then I am of the opinion this collision could have been avoided.”

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2007-07-17/debates/07071760000005/CyclingDeaths(Abergele)_


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## Oldhippy (15 Dec 2022)

UK is positively backward in so many ways sadly.


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## Brandane (15 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> In Finland they prioritise clearing pavements and cycleways. Plus some of the cycle ways are heated to keep them clear. Different priorities for ways of moving about.



That's great, until all those cars, buses, and HGV's on the untreated roads start sliding onto the pavements and cycleways.


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## roubaixtuesday (15 Dec 2022)

Brandane said:


> That's great, until all those cars, buses, and HGV's on the untreated roads start sliding onto the pavements and cycleways.



In most of Sweden, studded winter tyres are compulsory. I would guess Finland is the same.


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## FishFright (15 Dec 2022)

Brandane said:


> That's great, until all those cars, buses, and HGV's on the untreated roads start sliding onto the pavements and cycleways.



Snow / winter tyres and chains are normal there , probably madatory.


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## ColinJ (15 Dec 2022)

Brandane said:


> That's great, until all those cars, buses, and HGV's on the untreated roads start sliding onto the pavements and cycleways.


Won't they have to use suitable winter tyres there?


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## Vantage (15 Dec 2022)

Just been reading up on this. 
Less traffic there. Harder test to pass. Winter/snow tyres are mandatory. Lower speed limits.
And then we have the UK. Ugh.


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## pawl (15 Dec 2022)

Sallar55 said:


> Did you ever go youth hostelling in the winter when young. Sometimes it was white outside. You had no options , only way was to cycle home.. . People are getting soft today,😄



Yes I did Ilam hall .See my report up thread.


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## Kingfisher101 (15 Dec 2022)

No not now as I know your tyres can slip and I'm not spending time in A and E when its totally avoidable. Other people can do what they want, its upto the person.Also its too cold for me at the moment on a bike.


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## biking_fox (15 Dec 2022)

Thin tyres = higher pressure = cuts through snow more efficiently cf fat tyres that ride on top.. Only for a certain depth, but not necessarily a bad choice, Is sometimes a lot better than cars. Whether it cuts through ice under the snow is different again. Always ride all year round - admittedly mostly in a gritted urban environment. learn the skills, wrap up warm and enjoy.


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## Kingfisher101 (15 Dec 2022)

biking_fox said:


> Thin tyres = higher pressure = cuts through snow more efficiently cf fat tyres that ride on top.. Only for a certain depth, but not necessarily a bad choice, Is sometimes a lot better than cars. Whether it cuts through ice under the snow is different again. Always ride all year round - admittedly mostly in a gritted urban environment. learn the skills, wrap up warm and enjoy.



Its not always about skills though is it? There can be black ice/ice and you can go down no matter what your skill level is. Its not really snow thats the issue.


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## gavroche (15 Dec 2022)

Nine days since I have been on a ride due to icy roads but the forecast for next week looks better with temperatures up to double figures.


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## nickyboy (15 Dec 2022)

Been out a few times on the MTB including yesterday morning when max was -2. Mainly offroad and didn't experience any grip issues. Some icy stretches but kept it steady, no braking and straight line. Got up to about 1600ft ASL without issues
Wouldn't fancy the road bike atm. Main roads are fine (but crap as they're full of traffic). Minor roads are very dodgy here as we get a lot of water runoff from the fields that freezes on the roads


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## Brandane (15 Dec 2022)

gavroche said:


> Nine days since I have been on a ride due to icy roads but the forecast for next week looks better with temperatures up to double figures.



But with rain and 40mph winds, in our case. It seems to be that is the only 2 types of winter weather available in these days of altered climate. Freezing cold; or wet and windy.

Personally, give me the cold option, and forsake the bike for winter. Other than the occasional ride out on the MTB with Schwalbe studded winter tyres.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

Brandane said:


> That's great, until all those cars, buses, and HGV's on the untreated roads start sliding onto the pavements and cycleways.



They have laws about all those vehicle needing proper winter tyres etc.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

Perfect winter wonderland today, though coldest was -6C during ride. I was dressed for it, so no problem.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

Kingfisher101 said:


> There can be black ice



Conditions for black ice are fairly well understood and can be mitigated for / avoided. But you have to understand the conditions necessary and apply that to the local roads you know.


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## matticus (15 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Conditions for black ice are fairly well understood and can be mitigated for / avoided. But you have to understand the conditions necessary and *apply that to the local roads you know.*


This is why I'm skeptical of riders on 200k rides saying ice won't be a problem - it's incredibly rare to know all the roads concerned, in a variety of conditions. [Often accompanied by my favourite winter phrase - "_If you see any ice, just slow down_!" ]


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> This is why I'm skeptical of riders on 200k rides saying ice won't be a problem - it's incredibly rare to know all the roads concerned, in a variety of conditions. [Often accompanied by my favourite winter phrase - "_If you see any ice, just slow down_!" ]



Agree, if I’m on a winter 200km audax I’m relying on the organiser to have picked suitable roads. Knowing when to turn around and when to push on for tales down the pub, is a valuable skill.


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## Saluki (15 Dec 2022)

Today was a bit interesting so stuck to the bus routes. First and last 100 yards, on my ungritted street were a smidge worrying.

Yesterday, we took a different route and, at one point, got off and walked as the ice was a bit sheet. Cycle paths don’t get gritted, I guess.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Dec 2022)

Saluki said:


> Cycle paths don’t get gritted, I guess.



Ours get gritted but they would also need clearing to be effective. The same techniques that can work on a road with a lot of hot traffic doesn’t work half as well with cold bikes with narrow tyres.

I stayed off our cycle tracks today and used gritted bus route roads to get out of town to the rural gritted roads.


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## winjim (15 Dec 2022)

biking_fox said:


> Thin tyres = higher pressure = cuts through snow more efficiently cf fat tyres that ride on top.. Only for a certain depth, but not necessarily a bad choice, Is sometimes a lot better than cars. Whether it cuts through ice under the snow is different again. Always ride all year round - admittedly mostly in a gritted urban environment. learn the skills, wrap up warm and enjoy.



My winter tyres are 30mm and have a bit of a shallow tread. I do find that they can struggle with loose snow, sometimes you need to spin them in order to clear it off or go sideways a bit so they can dig in and get to a more solid substrate that they can grip. Slidy funtimes. I use them under mudguards so there can also be a buit of a buildup of snow between tyre and guard. On more packed snow or ice they're no problem at all.


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Dec 2022)

fossyant said:


> Four riders were killed one winter near Prestatyn in Wales due to a car skidding on ice. Car slid into a club run ! Be careful. Minus NINE this morning.


It's supposed to snow overnight here, till the early hours of the morning.
I'm organizing myself to bus it to work (if the bus comes haha!) not because I'm scared of falling, but because I'm scared of getting run over by a sliding car. I have seen folks attempting to drive in snow, it was scary!
Think is, to get the bus I need to walk 30 min to the stop ... on icy pavements, at 6am!
On the bike, it only takes me 20 min to get to work 


Vantage said:


> Winter/snow tyres are mandatory.


A driver told me that snow chains would damage our British roads, not sure if this is correct.


Saluki said:


> First and last 100 yards, on my ungritted street were a smidge worrying.


I gritted myself a way out of the housing scheme, like I do every winter, nobody else seems to mind sliding


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## Two-Wheels (15 Dec 2022)

Funny, I was going to make a similar thread after Sunday's weather but I was too busy & just back from being away a few days.

Before my accident I would've probably gone out & 'taken it steady'. Thing is, no matter how steady you take it, the way it was on Sunday I could've gone in to a hedge at any moment with the country roads I cycle on.
Since the accident though I'm more cautious. I don't go hell for leather going downhill any more & I'm more cautious around bends too.

So when it was icy on Sunday I hopped in the car & went to the gym instead.

-8c here this morning.

When I went away on Monday, I drove through a stretch that the car said was -15c. Was tempted to get out and see how cold it felt but couldn't be bothered.


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## DCBassman (16 Dec 2022)

I rarely ride a bike if it's below 10°C...
Different if bike is your transport. Frankly, I'd not go out in the car either in such conditions, unless absolutely necessary.


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## ianrauk (16 Dec 2022)

DCBassman said:


> I rarely ride a bike if it's below 10°C...
> Different if bike is your transport. Frankly, I'd not go out in the car either in such conditions, unless absolutely necessary.



As I'm getting older I'm starting to think like this too. But only for leisure rides, not commuting. I no longer bounce as well as I used to.
Cycle commuting is a different matter as my bike is my main transport.
Living in London, we seem to be very lucky that the roads are gritted and pretty busy so ice and snow very rarely settles.


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## fossyant (16 Dec 2022)

I'm more bothered about driver's abilities - we all saw the carnage of last week's snow in Southern England over the media. 

I remember going to meet some other CC'ers one winter's morning. We'd had some snow, but the roads were clear and it wasn't that cold. As I got nearer the meeting point, the roads got worse, but still OK. At the point I heard a landrover skidding behind me, I decided I would turn around and go home - it wasn't me but other road users.


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## Dogtrousers (16 Dec 2022)

The existence of my turbo keeps me inside when it's cold these days. It's only when I've got a challenge on (like rapha 500 or one of the century a month challenges) that I force myself out.

In London the roads clear off quickly and become no more dangerous than usual, so if there's risk of ice I don't venture out into the countryside. This has led to some pretty dismal cold challenge rides round loops of SE London.


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## Pat "5mph" (16 Dec 2022)

DCBassman said:


> I rarely ride a bike if it's below 10°C...


Lol, living in Scotland 4C feels actually quite warm.
Anyway, this morning I got up at the crack of dawn (more like the middle of the night ) ready to walk 30 minutes to the bus stop, if the overnight snow made cycling too risky.
At 6am there was only a thin layer of snow, so I decided to chance it, I can always chain the bike and walk the rest, my commute is only about 3 miles.
It was a bit iffy, because the main roads were all slushy, with ice underneath.
Because I left so early there were hardly any cars on the road, which allowed me to ride carefully.
Then the bus I could have taken passed me, so I could ride in it's tyre track ... happy days.
On top of a minor incline with lights on red at the bottom, I waited for the green to descend, least I slide across the junction 
Again, this was possible because I was the only one on the road.
On my way back home all good, it had rained, almost all the snow gone, but I walked a short still slushy downhill (segregated path) just in case I couldn't stop at the bottom 
These last few weeks the commute has been adventurous to say the least!


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## cyberknight (16 Dec 2022)

it was getting on for - 10c this week for me , a tad nippy but thankfully the roads were clear


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## steveindenmark (17 Dec 2022)

I am 64 and ride most days of the year. I call a halt only when there is snow and ice on the roads. I have found the older you get. The less you bounce and the longer you take to fix. I have never enjoyed riding in ice and snow so I will take the car for a couple of weeks. This weather will not last long


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## Brandane (17 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The bike tyre marks left in the snow
> 
> View attachment 670792



If that's from one bike, may I suggest a frame alignment check!


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Dec 2022)

Brandane said:


> If that's from one bike, may I suggest a frame alignment check!



You clearly never looked at tyre tracks when turning in snow


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Dec 2022)

Another fine outing before the thaw arrives. Covered 62km with cafe stop.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Dec 2022)

Historic riding in the snow


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## Dogtrousers (17 Dec 2022)

Turbo this morning. "Rode up" Mt Ventoux. Blue skies, lovely weather.


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Dec 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Turbo this morning. "Rode up" Mt Ventoux. Blue skies, lovely weather.



How was your ride in the garage ?


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## matticus (17 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You clearly never looked at tyre tracks when turning in snow



Have you considered looking where you're going?


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Dec 2022)

matticus said:


> Have you considered looking where you're going?



Where is the fun in that?


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## Dogtrousers (17 Dec 2022)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How was your ride in the garage ?



Conservatory. Garage is really cold! I'm not going down there! And I might slip on the path, break my hip, and need an ambulance. What do you take me for?


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## Ian H (17 Dec 2022)

138km solstice ride today, with a couple of pub stops. Plenty of snow & ice around. 5 of us out including 3 pensioners.


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## Pat "5mph" (17 Dec 2022)

This morning I was surprised to see sheet ice even on the main roads!
Made it to work, not even the car park was gritted ... it's a hospital, for goodness sake!
We are not organized for a deep freeze in the UK


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## cyberknight (18 Dec 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> This morning I was surprised to see sheet ice even on the main roads!
> Made it to work, not even the car park was gritted ... it's a hospital, for goodness sake!
> We are not organized for a deep freeze in the UK



glad i decided to take the weekend off the bike ! light snow this morning thats now turning to freezing rain


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## Ming the Merciless (18 Dec 2022)

Pat 5mph said:


> This morning I was surprised to see sheet ice even on the main roads!
> Made it to work, not even the car park was gritted ... it's a hospital, for goodness sake!
> We are not organized for a deep freeze in the UK



Assume you’ve had some rain or mist, combine that with frozen surfaces and conditions are ripe.


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## yello (19 Dec 2022)

We've a number of shaded valley roads around here where it pays to be careful. Away from those dips, roads can be safe and dry. Down in the dip's another story. We get black ice; damp roads and freezing overnight temperatures. It can be there all day. I avoid such routes if I'm unsure.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Dec 2022)

Dogtrousers said:


> Conservatory. Garage is really cold! I'm not going down there! And I might slip on the path, break my hip, and need an ambulance. What do you take me for?



It would be selfish of you to slip by walking outside


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## steveindenmark (20 Dec 2022)

It thawed really quickly overnight in Denmark. Most of the snow is gone. It was plus 7 this morning.


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## Vantage (20 Dec 2022)

All gone here. Tyre change time...again.


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## freiston (20 Dec 2022)

We had next to no snow here but plenty of frost. With the thaw and the rain, there's been a lot of surface water:


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## cyberknight (20 Dec 2022)

it was about 12 c even after midnight, absolutely chucking it down mind but warm


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## HLaB (23 Dec 2022)

He would 


View: https://youtu.be/Qutf9SSf55E


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## I like Skol (24 Dec 2022)

You know what?

15 pages in and I just realised, I go out on my bike what ever. Snow, ice, cold, heat, rain, floods, demise of the crown, wind, storms, strikes, pandemics, glorious summer days, bank holidays.... You name it and I probably will/have ridden anyway. It's just riding my bike without a song and dance.


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## brommieinkorea (24 Dec 2022)

When at Ft Drum, where we got 12' of snow between January and March, I rode in the snow a lot. Studded tires, and my commute was only 2 to 3 miles. Easier to pick my bike up over the drifts than to dig out my 2 wheel drive pickup several times per day. Helps to have a very good understanding of other vehicles traction limitations too. The snow plow that I operated could run across anything and wade through 8' (2.5 metre) of snow (chains full time 4x4) , but most of the motor pool trucks couldn't stop on a slope because of the ice. My bike could stop on bare ice but it would wallow out in deep snow. If you see a car with Hawaii plates in snow, stay away...


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## cyberknight (24 Dec 2022)

brommieinkorea said:


> When at Ft Drum, where we got 12' of snow between January and March, I rode in the snow a lot. Studded tires, and my commute was only 2 to 3 miles. Easier to pick my bike up over the drifts than to dig out my 2 wheel drive pickup several times per day. Helps to have a very good understanding of other vehicles traction limitations too. The snow plow that I operated could run across anything and wade through 8' (2.5 metre) of snow (chains full time 4x4) , but most of the motor pool trucks couldn't stop on a slope because of the ice. My bike could stop on bare ice but it would wallow out in deep snow. If you see a car with Hawaii plates in snow, stay away...



In the Usa/canada they have a massive storm and temperatures down to - 45 c covering most of the continent ! The mayor of new york told drivers that there normal tyres wouldnt grip and not to even attempt to drive


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## Dogtrousers (24 Dec 2022)

When I visit Northern Finland I do see people out and about on bikes in the towns. On the roads between towns, no. Generally ordinary looking town bikes. I've never examined the tyres.

There is a LOT of snow. It gets VERY cold. Roads are ploughed regularly and there are maintained packed trails for snowmobiles and pedestrians/kicksleds. There are also groomed trails for XC skiing. Of course all road vehicles have studded tyres.

The very low temperatures mean it's all quite different to the small amounts of wet snow we get in this country.


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## Andy in Germany (24 Dec 2022)

I like Skol said:


> You know what?
> 
> 15 pages in and I just realised, I go out on my bike what ever. Snow, ice, cold, heat, rain, floods, demise of the crown, wind, storms, strikes, pandemics, glorious summer days, bank holidays.... You name it and I probably will/have ridden anyway. It's just riding my bike without a song and dance.



Me too. My takeaway from this thread is that people like us are courageous, hardcore and generally awesome.

The fact it was unintentional just adds to the coolness factor.


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## Ming the Merciless (Thursday at 15:14)

Andy in Germany said:


> Me too. My takeaway from this thread is that people like us are courageous, hardcore and generally awesome.
> 
> The fact it was unintentional just adds to the coolness factor.





Andy in Germany said:


> Me too. My takeaway from this thread is that people like us are courageous, hardcore and generally awesome.
> 
> The fact it was unintentional just adds to the coolness factor.


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## Andy in Germany (Thursday at 16:30)

Ming the Merciless said:


> View attachment 674158



I'm going to adopt that as my motto for 2023. I may even translate it and stick it on the workshop door...


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## postman (Yesterday at 16:47)

Me and the bike hibernate November to April,and have been doing it for years.Part time cyclist.


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## cyberknight (Yesterday at 16:48)

does zwift count


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## fossyant (Yesterday at 16:59)

cyberknight said:


> does zwift count



Apparently Zwift never counts


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## cyberknight (Yesterday at 18:03)

fossyant said:


> Apparently Zwift never counts



i know . i was just leg pulling


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