# Electrickery Question



## Joey Shabadoo (1 Nov 2020)

I'll tackle most DIY jobs but electricity scares me. So, can anyone tell me what's going on here? The dishwasher goes into a single socket put there when the kitchen was re-done a few years ago. Not been too impressed by the sparky's work because we've since discovered live wires tucked behind the oven, lights wired wrong and sockets coming out the wall. Anyhoo, the dishwasher. Lately, every time you go to use it, it only switches on when you pull the plug out the wall, wait a few seconds then plug it back in. Any ideas what the issue is?


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## Sharky (1 Nov 2020)

Don't have a clue, but some guesses. If unplugging the dishwasher works, there could be some kind of safety device built into the dishwasher that resets itself when disconnected. Probably highly unlikely though. But you could test this by connecting the dish washer via a long extension lead to another socket in the house which you know works OK. If same problem, then dish washer at fault. If all OK, then time to call an electrician in.


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## oldworld (1 Nov 2020)

I'd guess it's the dishwasher not the wiring. Maybe a bit like a computer when you've tried everything else you pull the plug out. 
Hey presto! It's all working again!


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## I like Skol (1 Nov 2020)

Water and electrics, great combination for an amateur to tackle!

How up to date are the house electrics, is there any RCD protection covering the socket involved? Are you getting any unexplained fuses tripping?

I would proceed with caution as the chance of electrocution or a fire are quite high if you get it wrong.

Having said that, it it were me I would proceed as follows.

Turn off the electrics for the plugs circuit powering suspect socket then remove the plug facia and inspect the wiring connections for anything dodgy. Scorching, loose connections, stray/unexplained wires, dampness etc. If that all looks ok then screw it back to the wall and move your attention to the appliance. The plug and power cable need inspecting for damage, as well as removing the appliance and checking for any signs of leakage. Some machines have internal trays with leak sensors and it may be a small leak is tripping this but then drying out by the time you come to use it again and your off/on routine is resetting this. What happens if you try to run the machine again within 30 minutes of it completing it's last cycle.


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## fossyant (1 Nov 2020)

As above, inspect socket with electric isolated, test with a lamp or something plugged in. We've had sockets fail in the past.


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## I like Skol (1 Nov 2020)

Oh, just a note.

I'm not a qualified electrician so don't take my advice as anything other than an amateur suggestion. I also believe it may be illegal to tamper with household wiring in the way I have suggested above?


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## Hicky (1 Nov 2020)

If it’s easily accessible put a extension lead. Plug a radio(ideally low power)and the dishwasher in, run it as you suggest and any issues off the socket should be shown by the radio throwing a wobbly. That’s all I’d suggest if you’re not confident/competent with electrics.
Beyond that get said sparky back and show him the live wires(are they live or just exposed?) etc and tell him to sort it. 
We had a house rewrire not too long ago(I’m competent but can’t sign it off and it was also part of the house extension), anyhow, after a while I have a closer look at the alarm which needs upgrading....its powered off the lighting circuit. Wtf!!


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## newts (1 Nov 2020)

Any work done on a kitchen/bathroom since 2005 comes under part P regulations, should have been tested & signed off by the electrician (also notified building control). If he or she has left bare wires showing, then they should be reported & have said cables inserted where the sun don't shine.


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## Joey Shabadoo (1 Nov 2020)

newts said:


> Any work done on a kitchen/bathroom since 2005 comes under part P regulations, should have been tested & signed off by the electrician (also notified building control). If he or she has left bare wires showing, then they should be reported & have said cables inserted where the sun don't shine.


It's a Housing Association house designed for assisted living. The work was carried out by a team appointed by the HA and the bare wires were discovered last year when the guy came from British Gas to fit a Hive thermostat.


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## Hicky (1 Nov 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It's a Housing Association house designed for assisted living. The work was carried out by a team appointed by the HA and the bare wires were discovered last year when the guy came from British Gas to fit a Hive thermostat.


Send pictures to the HA, recorded delivery asking for it to be checked as a matter of urgency. If you have an agreement check on the details to see when the last electrical check was done, as of June/July these had to be done along with gas certs to rented properties.


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## Joey Shabadoo (1 Nov 2020)

Hicky said:


> Send pictures to the HA, recorded delivery asking for it to be checked as a matter of urgency. If you have an agreement check on the details to see when the last electrical check was done, as of June/July these had to be done along with gas certs to rented properties.


Pretty sure the Gas man made it good. It was from when the heating controls had to be moved during the kitchen refit. He discovered the control switch was completely inert and when he took the panel off he found the bare wires unconnected to anything.


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## newts (1 Nov 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> It's a Housing Association house designed for assisted living. The work was carried out by a team appointed by the HA and the bare wires were discovered last year when the guy came from British Gas to fit a Hive thermostat.


If the BG who installed the Hive was a qualified electrician he should have made the bare wires safe & reported the original installation. 
The original work & any subsequent periodic testing should have recorded data on resistance, earth etc.


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## Joey Shabadoo (1 Nov 2020)

I'll tell the wife - she's the one who deals with the HA. We get gas boiler checks and smoke detector tests annually, don't know that we've had electic tests. In Scotland if that makes any difference.


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## jowwy (1 Nov 2020)

Joey Shabadoo said:


> I'll tell the wife - she's the one who deals with the HA. We get gas boiler checks and smoke detector tests annually, don't know that we've had electic tests. In Scotland if that makes any difference.


HA should check electrics every 10yrs currently, will soon be 5yrs........but that’s in Wales under Welsh Housing Quality Standard, not sure about England and Scotland


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## slowmotion (1 Nov 2020)

Try and run the dishwasher off an extension lead plugged into another remote socket. If it still acts up, it might be a dishwasher fault.

BTW, it's worth taking the cover off the plug of the dishwasher to see if there's a dodgy connection inside.


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## Joey Shabadoo (4 Nov 2020)

Ok, tried it on an extension lead and worked fine so decided to change the socket.













Upon taking the socket out, I found the on/off switch to be a bit "iffy". Switches off but not convincingly on, so I think that's been the issue. New socket in now and working OK.

Not sure about the positioning of that other socket by the overflow waste pipe though 🤔


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## Broughtonblue (5 Nov 2020)

Looking at it, pretty sure the socket was there before the waste pipe


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## Archie_tect (5 Nov 2020)

In an ideal world there should be 300mm between any electric socket and an open stand pipe... but there isn't a Scottish Building Standard for a minimum separation dimension- though it isn't good building practice to have a live 13a. plug socket below an open waste stand pipe! 

On our HA phousing I specify a fused spur connections for below worktop white goods, connected to a neon switch above the worktop so you can isolate the white goods from the electric before dragging the fitting out of their 600mm space... one for the fridge, cooker, WM, dryer and DW.

I'd have a quiet word with the Maintenance Department of your HA...


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## ColinJ (6 Nov 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> ... though it isn't good building practice to have a live 13a. plug socket below an open waste stand pipe!


What do you think of rain water round light switches...? 

The wall round the light switch by my front door got very damp the other day. That was _somewhat alarming_! I discovered that the mastic surrounding my front door has some gaps in it opposite the switch and if there is heavy rain and a strong westerly wind, rain water can penetrate.

I must sort that out ASAP!


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## Archie_tect (6 Nov 2020)

ColinJ said:


> What do you think of rain water round light switches...?
> 
> The wall round the light switch by my front door got very damp the other day. That was _somewhat alarming_! I discovered that the mastic surrounding my front door has some gaps in it opposite the switch and if there is heavy rain and a strong westerly wind, rain water can penetrate.
> 
> I must sort that out ASAP!


Damp is manageable... overflowing water isn't Colin!


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## ColinJ (6 Nov 2020)

Archie_tect said:


> Damp is manageable... overflowing water isn't Colin!


True!


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## Joey Shabadoo (14 Nov 2020)

Broughtonblue said:


> Looking at it, pretty sure the socket was there before the waste pipe


They were put in at the same time when the kitchen was re-done.

Another quirk; the two sockets (off a fused spur with neon switches) was used to run the dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine (with an extension). But you couldn't run any two at the same time or the dodgy socket went dead. Since replacing the single with a double last week, there's been no issues.


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## Archie_tect (14 Nov 2020)

Double sockets possibly wired in parallel off the single supply while the power from the second single socket was taken in series off the first one causing a power over load ... electrickery sometimes works in mysterious ways.


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