# Thinking of a new MTB but just can't get excited about current bikes....



## I like Skol (24 Jun 2022)

This is kind of a 'What bike?' post, but specifically for MTB so posting in this section seems appropriate.

I ride a 1996 hardtail MTB and find it serves me quite well, certainly doesn't hold me back when riding with buddies where I am often quickest up the trail and without fail fastest down the other side!
A few times over recent years my mates have made comments along the lines of 'Jeez Skolly, heaven help us if you ever get a decent modern bike'! This usually prompts me to look at the current availability before dismissing the idea because nothing takes my fancy and besides, I'm plenty quick enough with my old 26" dinosaur 

However, the niggle that maybe I am missing something won't go away. Could a modern bike' actually be better handling and give more enjoyment?

Trouble is, having just looked again, there is still nothing to excite me.

1x drivetrains are not good for me as I like to pedal downhill between the bends.

27.5" wheels would be my natural choice but all the high end bikes tend to be 29"

Aesthetically I want a frame that doesn't look like a full suss but with a rigid rear end.

My son has a 2016 GT Zaskar carbon expert which would be my ideal bike if I could find one the next size up from his and throw on a double chainset.

Why do I feel so left out by modern bikes, or am I missing something?


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## wiggydiggy (24 Jun 2022)

Sounds like you need a custom build👍

My Genesis Mantle 20 (profile pic) started as a 3x(forgot) but is now a 2x9. It is a 29er but Ive never ridden a 27.5 so can't compare. I have Marathon + MTB tyres on it and it rolls very well.

One thing I do like about it it as a very wide handlebar, I also fitted some Ergon GP1 grips.

It's definitely more of a cross country bike than a downhiller but I've had it since 2008ish so I understand the reluctance to buy something new!


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> This is kind of a 'What bike?' post, but specifically for MTB so posting in this section seems appropriate.
> 
> I ride a 1996 hardtail MTB and find it serves me quite well, certainly doesn't hold me back when riding with buddies where I am often quickest up the trail and without fail fastest down the other side!
> A few times over recent years my mates have made comments along the lines of 'Jeez Skolly, heaven help us if you ever get a decent modern bike'! This usually prompts me to look at the current availability before dismissing the idea because nothing takes my fancy and besides, I'm plenty quick enough with my old 26" dinosaur
> ...



Nope, not missing anything. Tried a couple of 'modern' MTB's and rigid 1995 M500 Cannondale way better, just over 10kg could be the secret? Mind you, the canti brakes are the only downside, really poor compared to modern kit.


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## chriswoody (24 Jun 2022)

Hard to say if your missing out or not, if your enjoying your current bike and you can still happily ride the trails you want to, then keep with it.

With all this new bike technology though, Modern Mountain bikes can be a very different beast and a lot of fun to ride. Disc brakes and tubeless are brilliant off road, as are 1x systems in my opinion. 

Have you tried a 1 x 12 equipped bike? I've personally found with a 10 tooth cog, matched to a 36 tooth chainring, I can still pedal a lot going downhill and the gaps between ratios are a non issue because I'm going up and down the cassette a lot because of the rough terrain. 1 x is a very divisive issue I know, but I heartily recommend trying one with an open mind if you haven't already. It is tricky though to find anything else on mountain bikes these days.

Personally I've been looking at Sonder bikes recently, especially the Frontier, it looks a bit more traditional than other more modern bikes and you can specify it with 27.5" wheels or 29", dependant on preference. It does only come with 1 x though, so if that's a definite no, then it's not an option. Alpkit do have a number of stores around though and you can take a bike out for a demo and see what you think. I wouldn't mind doing it myself, but sadly they have no stores in Northern Germany!


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## nickb (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Nope, not missing anything. Tried a couple of 'modern' MTB's and rigid 1995 M500 Cannondale way better, just over 10kg could be the secret? Mind you, the canti brakes are the only downside, really poor compared to modern kit.



I bought the same bike in 1997 (from the now sadly closed Reg Braddick's in Cardiff) and it came with an LX groupset including V-brakes which were much better than cantis. Over the next few years I changed the entire groupset to M739 XT which turned it into a great bike. As well as serving me well offroad until I bought a full-sus, it was my regular commuter for 12 years and never let me down.


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## Threevok (24 Jun 2022)

This is exactly why I build my own. Not only do you get what you want, but you don't waste more money changing stock things you didn't like


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## Cycleops (24 Jun 2022)

Why don’t you consider a hybrid? Many are now Mountain bike lite with fat tyres and MTB like geometry. Some still come with a double or triple up front. You could also ditch the front suspension to save weight. Something like this:
https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes...ghroad-slr-2-hybrid-bike-2022-in-metal__32906


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## I like Skol (24 Jun 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> Sounds like you need a custom build👍





Threevok said:


> This is exactly why I build my own. Not only do you get what you want, but you don't waste more money changing stock things you didn't like


I'm not averse to this and have considered it as an option. Two things put me off though....

1, I might invest a lot of time, effort (and money) to build a bike to my standard and not actually gain much in the way of benefit other than actually just adding another bike to the stable? Possibly I am giving the bike manufacturers more credit than they deserve, but I would like to think they play around with component choice and geometry tweaks to make it all work together nicely and ride well. You just can't do that kind of R&D when picking (and committing to) a combination of frame/forks/etc off the page.

2, I'm not sure self build is as easy as it was 3-4 years ago before the current supply issues kicked in? Availability and prices seem to have suffered seismic shifts so my go-to spec of Shimano XT and components of similar standards might be hard to achieve?



Cycleops said:


> Why don’t you consider a hybrid? Many are now Mountain bike lite with fat tyres and MTB like geometry.



Thanks, but no thanks. There's a reason I posted in MTB rather than the general 'What bike' section.


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## Threevok (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> I'm not averse to this and have considered it as an option. Two things put me off though....
> 
> 1, I might invest a lot of time, effort (and money) to build a bike to my standard and not actually gain much in the way of benefit other than actually just adding another bike to the stable? Possibly I am giving the bike manufacturers more credit than they deserve, but I would like to think they play around with component choice and geometry tweaks to make it all work together nicely and ride well. You just can't do that kind of R&D when picking (and committing to) a combination of frame/forks/etc off the page.
> 
> 2, I'm not sure self build is as easy as it was 3-4 years ago before the current supply issues kicked in? Availability and prices seem to have suffered seismic shifts so my go-to spec of Shimano XT and components of similar standards might be hard to achieve?



I didn't have too many supply problems building the Inbred, or getting air forks for the Kinesis KM210 for Mrs V (which ashamedly I still haven't finished).

Although, building a 26 is probably harder these days, all other size parts appear to be easier to get than complete bikes, at the moment.

I can see your point about just adding one for the sake of it though. Which is why i'm getting rid of my 3x10 Inbred, as I use the Single Speed for everything these days.


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## nickb (24 Jun 2022)

Cycleops said:


> Why don’t you consider a hybrid? Many are now Mountain bike lite with fat tyres and MTB like geometry. Some still come with a double or triple up front. You could also ditch the front suspension to save weight. Something like this:
> https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes...ghroad-slr-2-hybrid-bike-2022-in-metal__32906



With wide-range cassettes and clutched rear derailleurs, is there any reason for the complication and faff of triple chainsets these days? 

I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole any more. I can't remember the last time I used the granny ring on my old Gary Fisher XC bike and would love to ditch the triple on that if I could justify changing the drivetrain.


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## roubaixtuesday (24 Jun 2022)

Your bike sounds perfect already.

Get a custom paint job for it. 

https://mtbrules.com/how-much-is-a-paint-job-for-a-mountain-bike/


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## Threevok (24 Jun 2022)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Your bike sounds perfect already.
> 
> Get a custom paint job for it.
> 
> https://mtbrules.com/how-much-is-a-paint-job-for-a-mountain-bike/



OMG look at that Sudario pic 

Who on earth wants their bike to look like Pat Butcher's curtains ?


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## roubaixtuesday (24 Jun 2022)

Threevok said:


> Who on earth wants their bike to look like Pat Butcher's curtains ?



@I like Skol ?


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

Here's what you're after mate. 
https://www.cannondale.com/en-gb/bikes/electric/e-mountain/moterra-neo-lt


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## figbat (24 Jun 2022)

In my fleet I have:

- full carbon full-sus, 27.5" boost, 1x12, 36T x 10-50T, discs (13kg)
- carbon hardtail, 29", 1x10 (converted from 3x10), 36T x 11-46T, discs (11kg in stock form, might be a bit different now)
- 1998 full rigid Saracen, 26" wheels, 3x7, V-brakes
- 1997 full rigid Trek XC converted to a gravel bike, now 700c, 1x10 (36T x 11-42T), mechanical discs.

In terms of outright speed, over the terrain I ride the first two are fairly matched, but given a choice I'd take the full-sus as it is just easier to ride quickly - not only on descents where it soaks up the bumps but also on climbs where it digs in and grips on rough terrains, where the HT might lose momentum. The gravel bike holds its own on typical bridleways and tracks, but suffers on rough descents. I actually rode the Saracen to work today, along the Ridgeway, where it put in a time comparable to other bikes I've ridden over the same route, although I'm not really pushing on a commute.

For me it's horses for courses, no single bike is quickest over everything, but the full-sus is generally quickest over most of it if we're talking proper offroad rather than fire roads or canal paths. You also have to ride the bike you have, so technique differs across them.

Gearing - the 10-50 on the full-sus pretty much covers me for anything and everything - I might spin out on a fast road descent but this is pretty rare so I just live with it. I have noticed that on the 3x7 I am changing gear a lot more often, because there are smaller gaps between the gears - on the 1x bikes you sometimes have to compromise on cadence or speed if you're between gears (the 12-speed is better in this regard).

Disc brakes offroad are just better. My V-braked Saracen works OK in the dry but in the wet is a bit sketchy.

Is anybody willing to let you have a go on their bike so you can get a feel for what it's like? In my MTB group we sometimes swap bikes to let people try something different if they are musing a change. Someone recently had a go on my full-sus to feel what wide handlebars felt like - they then went out and bought some to replace their narrow ones and are now much more confident on rutted tracks.


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## I like Skol (24 Jun 2022)

dan_bo said:


> Here's what you're after mate.
> https://www.cannondale.com/en-gb/bikes/electric/e-mountain/moterra-neo-lt



You & me are going to fall out


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## I like Skol (24 Jun 2022)

figbat said:


> Someone recently had a go on my full-sus to feel what wide handlebars felt like - they then went out and bought some to replace their narrow ones



A change of bars has also crossed my mind, especially as the rest of the bike seems to suit me so well. Still can't get rid of the feeling that I am just patching up an old (compromised?) machine and in reality could be missing out on a revelation in the handling department.

Maybe I need to try and sort some test rides to see for sure?


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## Sallar55 (24 Jun 2022)

Cannondale fan here, Carbon lefty, Rush, a few headshok ones. Wish list, Waiting for a 29er headshok if they ever make one. Easy to maintain, I may change the oil in the cartridge of my 2015 lefty as it has never been in for a fork service. The others have a rubber boot to keep out all the crap from the suspension. You can buy the tools to fix and seal kits are still on E Bay. Other half has a 2002 F 700 and it's still going well, just a matter of knowing what size of seals for the air suspension and the grade of suspension oil.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> You & me are going to fall out



At your age you should start to consider your options for keeping up with the lads.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> A change of bars has also crossed my mind, especially as the rest of the bike seems to suit me so well. Still can't get rid of the feeling that I am just patching up an old (compromised?) machine and in reality could be missing out on a revelation in the handling department.
> 
> Maybe I need to try and sort some test rides to see for sure?



Go to Leisure Lakes and have a look at the XC cannondales. Make it preston and I'll meet you there to advise.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

dan_bo said:


> Go to Leisure Lakes and have a look at the XC cannondales. Make it preston and I'll meet you there to advise.



Wouldn't want you asking any silly questions like.


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

nickb said:


> I bought the same bike in 1997 (from the now sadly closed Reg Braddick's in Cardiff) and it came with an LX groupset including V-brakes which were much better than cantis. Over the next few years I changed the entire groupset to M739 XT which turned it into a great bike. As well as serving me well offroad until I bought a full-sus, it was my regular commuter for 12 years and never let me down.



Nice to hear that. I swapped 7 speed to 10 speed XT and Alivio canti brakes for Avid Juicy's, better but not great. Do you know if a V-brake upgrade is doable? I have heard of a disc upgrade, but sounds pricey.
Got some nice shimano saint pedals on now to finish things off ... its such a great bike


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Nice to hear that. I swapped 7 speed to 10 speed XT and Alivio canti brakes for Avid Juicy's, better but not great. Do you know if a V-brake upgrade is doable? I have heard of a disc upgrade, but sounds pricey.
> Got some nice shimano saint pedals on now to finish things off ... its such a great bike
> 
> View attachment 650284



Cool sled. Really.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

Threevok said:


> OMG look at that Sudario pic
> 
> Who on earth wants their bike to look like Pat Butcher's curtains ?



It's fkin awesome that's what it is.


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

dan_bo said:


> Here's what you're after mate.
> https://www.cannondale.com/en-gb/bikes/electric/e-mountain/moterra-neo-lt



Good grief! How much?


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Good grief! How much?


Small potatoes when compared to how cool he'd look out on the trail


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## Jody (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> Still can't get rid of the feeling that I am just patching up an old (compromised?) machine and in reality could be missing out on a revelation in the handling department.
> 
> Maybe I need to try and sort some test rides to see for sure?



This ^

Coupled with Figbats post which sums it up as I would have. 

New gen bikes may feel a little weird when you first get out on them but aren't comparable with 90's tech.


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## wiggydiggy (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> 2, I'm not sure self build is as easy as it was 3-4 years ago before the current supply issues kicked in? Availability and prices seem to have suffered seismic shifts so my go-to spec of Shimano XT and components of similar standards might be hard to achieve?



Custom isn't always self, is there a LBS you could use to build it for you?

My Genesis was rebuilt and serviced about 6 months ago in a LBS I trust, the job inc parts delivery was 2-3 weeks though I wasn't specifying exact brands just that I wanted a new drivetrain 'of the same quality/ratios as the one it's replacing'. I understand though if you have a preferred type of part that option may not be for you

Edit:


I like Skol said:


> A change of bars has also crossed my mind, especially as the rest of the bike seems to suit me so well. Still can't get rid of the feeling that I am just patching up an old (compromised?) machine and in reality could be missing out on a revelation in the handling department.
> 
> Maybe I need to try and sort some test rides to see for sure?



I'll be honest patching up worry has crossed my mind as well, that bike of mine isn't as old as yours but is running on the original wheelset, frame and forks. Everything else has been replaced at some point.

But it's really comfortable for me and apart from a misguided attempt at 1x10 a few years back I've always been happy with it. I've browsed for a new bike but never really come close to getting one.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

wiggydiggy said:


> Custom isn't always self, is there a LBS you could use to build it for you?



Easy @I like Skol he didn't mean it.


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## Arrowfoot (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> However, the niggle that maybe I am missing something won't go away. Could a modern bike' actually be better handling and give more enjoyment?



Better handling as technology would have improved after 26 years. There will be folks that will tell you that you are doing well and ahead of your group and why change etc. 

It going to be your your call. Pointless keeping the money that you can't take with you when you head to the exit. Might as well enjoy a better experience. 

Let face it. You can travel the world with a 26 year old bike and you can travel the world with a better bike and guess which bike is likely to make that journey better.


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

I like Skol said:


> This is kind of a 'What bike?' post, but specifically for MTB so posting in this section seems appropriate.
> 
> I ride a 1996 hardtail MTB and find it serves me quite well, certainly doesn't hold me back when riding with buddies where I am often quickest up the trail and without fail fastest down the other side!
> A few times over recent years my mates have made comments along the lines of 'Jeez Skolly, heaven help us if you ever get a decent modern bike'! This usually prompts me to look at the current availability before dismissing the idea because nothing takes my fancy and besides, I'm plenty quick enough with my old 26" dinosaur
> ...



I was having a think about one of these the other week on the basis of modern/front suss improvement over my old Canny. Got a Ghost road bike and quality is up there with the big names.





https://www.chainreactioncycles.com...sf-essential-hardtail-bike-2021/rp-prod201649


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## I like Skol (24 Jun 2022)

I think I am going to spend 6 months watching eBay for that 2016 carbon Zaskar in size L. Just had the tape out on Jnr's M and no matter how I hold it the bike is just plain too small for me..... Lovely bike though.


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## dan_bo (24 Jun 2022)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28486111...qniw3gJSJq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


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## nickb (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Do you know if a V-brake upgrade is doable?


I don't know if the brake bosses will be in the correct place or even if they'd be suitable if they are.


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

nickb said:


> I don't know if the brake bosses will be in the correct place or even if they'd be suitable if they are.



Yeah thought that might be an issue. Will look into disc conversion again, shame original Sun Metal rims can't be reused though, both are still perfectly true after 27 years!


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## marzjennings (24 Jun 2022)

If the bike you have already have makes you happy then there's no reason to change, but I feel you are missing out on a lot of improvements.

'One by' drive trains are great and if you stick a 34 on the front your not going to run out of gears going downhill. On my full sus 29er with 1x I can keep pedaling and pushing hard over 25mph downhill on the road. But I'm a spinner not a masher so might not work for.

Modern disk brakes are night and day from what they were years ago, my Hope Tech 4s compared to my old old mini's are a vast improvement. And all the old rims brakes are terrible in anything other than the driest conditions.

Modern suspension forks have better seals, bushings, less play, longer life and are a whole bunch lighter.

Friggin carbons wheels are a god send for a large rider like me who used to kill alloy rims on a yearly basis.

The lowest end shifters and mechs work as well if not better than the old high end XTR's and XX's. I will be upgrading to electric shifting on my next bike.

Oh, almost forget the dropper post, an absolute must on any mountain bike I own or plan to own in the future. Something I definitely wish I had back in the 90's.

Something like a Specialized Epic is a rocket on the trails. 

For me my full sus 29er 1x Stumpy allows me to pedal and pedal hard all the time, but our local trails are quite rooty and rough. I've feel my older bikes used to clatter across the dirt, whereas now the new bike seems to flow so much smoother and quicker.


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## figbat (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> Yeah thought that might be an issue. Will look into disc conversion again, shame original Sun Metal rims can't be reused though, both are still perfectly true after 27 years!


I converted my Trek from cantis to discs. The front is easy, although if you are on a threaded headset it is much easier if you convert to threadless (as I did) as this opens up many more fork options. The rear you can either leave as canti (since the rear carries less braking duty), or you can get disc caliper mounts brazed on or you can use a frame adaptor (as I did).


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

figbat said:


> I converted my Trek from cantis to discs. The front is easy, although if you are on a threaded headset it is much easier if you convert to threadless (as I did) as this opens up many more fork options. The rear you can either leave as canti (since the rear carries less braking duty), or you can get disc caliper mounts brazed on or you can use a frame adaptor (as I did).



That's helpful thanks.
Just had a quick look ... angled dropouts, are yours the same? Adapter blurb says 'vertical only'?


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## potsy (24 Jun 2022)

If it was me I'd be sticking with the bike you already have and love, cannot imagine a new shiny one giving you much more, I reckon performance is 90% rider and 10% gear...and as much as I hate to say it you aren't too shabby in that department 
Once your legs go you'll need an electric one anyway, may as well save your pennies for that day


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## Hacienda71 (24 Jun 2022)

Slacker angles but more upright seating for climbing, more travel suspension without compromising handling, dropper posts, do all make a difference. My 2020 Bossnut climbs far better than my 2004 Stumpjumper and is more planted going downhill and that is a budget modern fs versus a pretty prcey in it's day fs xc bike . Putting wide bars shorter stem and more travel forks on an old bike is a compromise. It is not designed for that. I suspect @I like Skol knows this from his foray into 160 mm forks on a bike designed for 80 to 100....


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## figbat (24 Jun 2022)

Grant Fondo said:


> That's helpful thanks.
> Just had a quick look ... angled dropouts, are yours the same? Adapter blurb says 'vertical only'?
> View attachment 650295


Yeah, it says for alloy frames with flat dropouts but I fitted it to a steel frame with contoured dropouts - I did a bit of fettling with a Dremel and so far so good (approx 1,500 miles). The seat stay hasn't collapsed as naysayers would have it and the brakes work well enough to have stopped my every time I needed them.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jun 2022)

You are quickest up the hill and fastest down. A modern mtn bike will just mean more waiting around on the terrain you ride, assuming it’s gnarly enough. Gravel bikes were pretty much invented as mtn bikes moved so far beyond the trails we ride, they lost the engaged feeling you have on older designs. Part of the joy of mtn biking is the engagement with the trails you ride. Modern mtn bikes can remove that engagement as they just make everything too easy. You are just a passenger not an active pilot.

If you truly want to see what a modern mtn bike feels like. Go to a trail centre where you can hire, and see what you think.


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## Grant Fondo (24 Jun 2022)

figbat said:


> Yeah, it says for alloy frames with flat dropouts but I fitted it to a steel frame with contoured dropouts - I did a bit of fettling with a Dremel and so far so good (approx 1,500 miles). The seat stay hasn't collapsed as naysayers would have it and the brakes work well enough to have stopped my every time I needed them.
> 
> View attachment 650300
> 
> ...



Nifty looking bit of kit! Seen SLX set for £150 so may be worth a punt, just wheels then.
Cheers


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## IanSmithCSE (25 Jun 2022)

Good morning,

I think that I get it, having been brought up on steel road bikes, hydroformed aluminium and carbon fibre bikes still look wrong to me, although less wrong now than say 10 years ago.

I am currently commuting on both a CF road bike with Di2 and a Halfords Carrera Virtuoso with pre Claris 2000 series, not at the same time. :-)

The really big difference is Di2, yet this is probably the most _more money than sense_ upgrade that you could buy according to most people.

The commute is on country lanes where one minute it is flat, then it is a 5% gradient, then 20% for 20 yards and then flat again. Because of this I swap between the two chainrings a lot, I can not put into words why pressing a button rather than a lever makes the ride so, so different but it does, for me at least.

It may be that you have to accept that new bikes are different, accept them for what they are rather than try a make a new old style bike, ride them for a few thousand miles and then decide, _Wow that is wonderful_ or _Yup, I was right, my old bike was better_.

The problem with short rides can be that you simply find that the bike is different and automatically prefer what you know. It took me a couple of thousand miles to "get" Di2, initially I was using it like a cable shifter and it works fine that way, but after a while I found that I was making gear changes that I wouldn't with a cable shifter.

It's really fun to ride along a down hill road, get to a short hill, swap chainrings and hammer it up that hill, all 40 yards of it and then change rings again.

What's worrying is that carbon fibre bikes no longer look ridiculous to me, and I actually look at steel road frames and feel, _come on, you're just taking the mick, £1,100 for a 725 frame that weighs 2,300g_. If you can find one, that is what a full 501 tubed frame weighed in the mid 1980s and they were sold to non enthusiasts.

Sometimes it is easy to become too cynical, not every new invention is about making you buy a new version of what you already have. Okay, often it is, but not always.

Bye

Ian


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## I like Skol (2 Aug 2022)

Been out for a ride with @dan_bo tonight and discussed the new bike thing. As it happens I felt so engaged with my old bike that even when questioned about the new bikes progress I couldn't imagine swapping to a new machine!

Maybe I am too stuck in my ways?


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## dan_bo (2 Aug 2022)

I like Skol said:


> Been out for a ride with @dan_bo tonight and discussed the new bike thing. As it happens I felt so engaged with my old bike that even when questioned about the new bikes progress I couldn't imagine swapping to a new machine!
> 
> Maybe I am too stuck in my ways?



Nah. If it works it works.


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## kayakerles (3 Aug 2022)

I like Skol said:


> Been out for a ride with @dan_bo tonight and discussed the new bike thing. As it happens I felt so engaged with my old bike that even when questioned about the new bikes progress I couldn't imagine swapping to a new machine!
> 
> Maybe I am too stuck in my ways?



Or maybe just stuck with your perfect ride. Sometimes our old school stuff is just hard to beat for us. So many factors. 

Even worse, you could spend a lot on something new and not be as satisfied with it, ride wise, component wise, all around “feel” etc.

Just my two cents.

Best of success in the long hunt, ILS and whatever you decide.


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## ChrisEyles (24 Oct 2022)

I'm with you on this. Tried a couple of modern hardtails and found that while they are flattering in some situations (very steep rough chutes) they are much less engaging when not riding as fast as I could at 10/10ths of my ability. 

I did find they encouraged me to ride more difficult trails that I'd normally bottle, which was great. Funny thing is after riding them a few times on the modern bike, I was able to go back on my 2010 XC hardtail and get down them all right, albeit not quite as confidently. 

I'd say if you're able to confidently ride all the terrain you want to be able to ride on your current bike (it's that awesome zaskar, right?) there's not much advantage in swapping. 

If you want to progress your riding (bigger, steeper, rougher etc) beyond what you're currently comfortable with, a modern mtb will almost certainly help. 

Personally I'd be looking for something with a slacker head angle, nice modern components, but not too long reach, as it's the latter trend for long bikes that seems to suck some of the fun out for me. 

All the above goes double for 29" wheels IMO.


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## fossyant (25 Oct 2022)

ChrisEyles said:


> I'm with you on this. Tried a couple of modern hardtails and found that while they are flattering in some situations (very steep rough chutes) they are much less engaging when not riding as fast as I could at 10/10ths of my ability.
> 
> I did find they encouraged me to ride more difficult trails that I'd normally bottle, which was great. Funny thing is after riding them a few times on the modern bike, I was able to go back on my 2010 XC hardtail and get down them all right, albeit not quite as confidently.
> 
> ...



He's still faster than us on his old Zaskar - he'd be a complete nutter on a modern FS.


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## ChrisEyles (25 Oct 2022)

Sounds about right 

That's the thing with modern MTBs, they're designed to enable you to ride incredibly demanding terrain at speed, but if most of your riding is standard red grade sort of trails I don't see that they have a huge advantage over an older, less capable bike. 

On the trails I ride regularly that I'm confident on there was hardly any time difference between the modern and older MTBs I was riding (Strava segments, so take with a pinch of salt I guess). It's only when riding stuff that I find challenging on the older bike that the modern one became a big advantage. 

Another thing I discovered, is that I feel like if I take my 2010 GT Avalanche to Forest of Dean and give it a thrashing on the DH runs, I'm getting pretty close to the top end of the sort of riding of what's sensible on that bike - the bike's capabilities feel reasonably well matched to my own limitations in skills/balls. On a modern FS, I feel like they're so capable I'm never going to push it anywhere remotely near what it's capable of, and it feels a bit like the bike's wasted on me. 

Guess it depends what sort of riding you have available locally / how prepared you are to drive a little while to get to the really crazy stuff. And how prepared you are to accept the higher consequences of an off when you're riding that sort of terrain. 

I vote keep rocking the Zaskar!!!


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## I like Skol (25 Oct 2022)

Thrashed the old 96 Zaskar around north Wales for two days this weekend and again at Llandegla today. Loved it, smashed it, nailed it and had no doubts about the Skolly/Zaskar combination being the right one.

The 2x9 drivetrain is right for me and a wide spread of situations. Hardtail suits me. Bike fit and agility are IMO perfect, can't really imagine anything being better.

I think I must have been mad to consider replacing it, just seems a bit wrong that a 26 year old bike hasn't got an obvious replacement from modern versions?


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