# What Bike?



## GmanUK65 (15 Jul 2018)

So this idea is a bit of a way off but I am planning on doing a 3 month tour around some of Europe in a couple years time. I know its a long way off but better to be planning early than later. First I need a bike, something I am planning to buy in about a years time to give me about a year in learning the skills and gaining the experience before the big one. I've noticed that there is quite a variety of bikes used for touring such as Steel bikes, aluminium bikes; bikes with drop bars, butterfly bars, hybrid style bars etc.

The type of bicycle I am looking for is one with drop bars (I have been riding road bikes for a few years, and still am). I have never used disc brakes but have heard they work well with touring bikes (I suppose better stopping power for 30+ kg than rim brakes) so I want one with those. 27+ gears is also a big option. I've been told steel is better, don't know why, maybe someone can tell me. I also would prefer one that comes with a rear rack.

So far I've looked at a number of bikes but don't know which to choose, or if there are better ones which I may not have seen. The bikes I have seen are:
*Kona Sutra
Genesis Tour De Fer 10
Dawes Ultra Galaxy* (this has no disc brakes, so unless there is good reason to get one, probably not)
*Ridgeback Panorama 
*
The best one in my view is *Genesis Tour De Fer 10*, but I could be wrong. 
What views do people have on the above bikes?

In next several months I will in no doubt be asking other questions about touring which I may need assisting with.
Do you know of any other bikes I should consider


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## Heltor Chasca (15 Jul 2018)

The Kona and Genesis are great bikes.

Can I chuck in a spanner to your well thought out works?

Surly Dusc Trucker or Long Haul Trucker?


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## raleighnut (15 Jul 2018)

Ridgeback, but a Steel un.


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## GmanUK65 (15 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> The Kona and Genesis are great bikes.
> 
> Can I chuck in a spanner to your well thought out works?
> 
> Surly Dusc Trucker or Long Haul Trucker?


Yeah I've seen them, and its something to think about though they don't come with rear racks and mudguards. Something I did not mention was I would be trying to stick to a budget in bike buying. the Kona Sutra and Genesis cost about the same and come with rear racks and mudguards. The Surly's cost more and are without the rear rack and mudguards but I suppose the added cost of these items would not make much of a distance so might be worth looking into. I will compare them to the Genesis to see which I prefer. You could give me a head start and advise me on what you think the advantages are of the Surly's over the Genesis?


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## GmanUK65 (15 Jul 2018)

raleighnut said:


> Ridgeback, but a Steel un.


The Ridgeback Panorama is Steel. Something I'm not too sure of is that it uses Reynolds 725 tubing. I've read that this can use smaller diameter tubing than the 631 but the 631 is stronger. The Dawes Galaxy uses this tubing but not disc brakes. I suppose a perfect bike would be one that uses 631 tubing with disc brakes.


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## GmanUK65 (15 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Yeah I've seen them, and its something to think about though they don't come with rear racks and mudguards. Something I did not mention was I would be trying to stick to a budget in bike buying. the Kona Sutra and Genesis cost about the same and come with rear racks and mudguards. The Surly's cost more and are without the rear rack and mudguards but I suppose the added cost of these items would not make much of a distance so might be worth looking into. I will compare them to the Genesis to see which I prefer. You could give me a head start and advise me on what you think the advantages are of the Surly's over the Genesis?



Another thing I forgot to mention was the wheels. As I am used to 27" wheels I would prefer these. I think the Surly's use 26"


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## Vantage (16 Jul 2018)

I don't think anyone does bikes with 27" wheels anymore. The closest to that would be 27.5" aka 650b and even that size is rare. I don't know of any personally.
Next up would be 700c. Surly use that size in their bigger frame sizes as do others. You'd be limited to a max tyre size of probably 45mm though.
If I can recommend Spa's steel tourer if you can live without disc brakes. Comes fitted with mudguards and pretty decent racks. The base model is a little under a grand but as it's built up by Spa themselves, parts you're not happy with can be swapped over before it's delivered or picked up. Even the wheels are handbuilt and you get a choice of colours to pick from.
My recommendation is basically because for the last month or so, I've owned one 
But I can honestly say that in the 30+ years I've been cycling, it's the most comfortable bike I've owned. I can't knock it.


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## Tigerbiten (16 Jul 2018)

Out of the four bikes .....
The one you picked has the highest gears due to the triple being a 50/39/30.
The other three use a 48/36/26 triple.
I think a 50/34 compact double is even worse on a tourer, if you want to run a double then look at something like a 42/26 so you can also get very low gears with it.
Remember that a fair few cyclist come here and ask how to get lower gear but it's very rare for someone to ask how to get higher ones.
For a beginner cyclist, higher gears sound better so more bikes get sold, even if they are basically unusable.
So have a hard think on what range of gears you want/need.

I think the main advantage of steel tourer vs other material is that it's possible to bodge some type of a repair to a damaged frame in a third world country.
I don't think you'll need to do something like that but then again YMMV .....


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## Vantage (16 Jul 2018)

+1 for what he said ^^^
A steel frame is easier to weld in the event of a cracked or snapped tube. But then you have to ask yourself if you'd be comfortable letting Daves mate Nick from round the corner loose with a welder on your quite likely very expensive frame or is it better to wait and send it to a reputable frame builder?


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## betty swollocks (16 Jul 2018)

Thorn are touring bike specialists. Suggest you take a gander on the options they offer.
What's your budget?


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## raleighnut (16 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> The Ridgeback Panorama is Steel. Something I'm not too sure of is that it uses Reynolds 725 tubing. I've read that this can use smaller diameter tubing than the 631 but the 631 is stronger. The Dawes Galaxy uses this tubing but not disc brakes. I suppose a perfect bike would be one that uses 631 tubing with disc brakes.


TBH my Ridgeback is Tange CrMo (similar to 725) but uses V-Brakes.


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## GmanUK65 (17 Jul 2018)

Vantage said:


> I don't think anyone does bikes with 27" wheels anymore. The closest to that would be 27.5" aka 650b and even that size is rare. I don't know of any personally.
> Next up would be 700c. Surly use that size in their bigger frame sizes as do others. You'd be limited to a max tyre size of probably 45mm though.
> If I can recommend Spa's steel tourer if you can live without disc brakes. Comes fitted with mudguards and pretty decent racks. The base model is a little under a grand but as it's built up by Spa themselves, parts you're not happy with can be swapped over before it's delivered or picked up. Even the wheels are handbuilt and you get a choice of colours to pick from.
> My recommendation is basically because for the last month or so, I've owned one
> But I can honestly say that in the 30+ years I've been cycling, it's the most comfortable bike I've owned. I can't knock it.


I look into that thanks. 700c is what I was meant to say so it those kind I am still after


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## F70100 (17 Jul 2018)

Not sure whether this information from Reynolds website will clear up, or add to, your confusion...

Reynolds are just one of the tubeset manufacturers. I don't know who supplies the tubeset for the Genesis bike.

For what its worth, 3 years ago I was in a similar position to the one you describe. It took me a while to sort out the bike that I wanted, and even now, I'm not 100% sure that I got it but I'm not far off. I got a bike with 631 tubing, drop bars with STI levers, cable operated disc brakes, 32mm "touring" wheels and tyres, mudguards and a rear rack. It also has provision for a front rack which I fit when I need it.

I wanted a good quality tubeset so that the frame would be up to carrying a load on roughish bridleways and canal towpaths and the like. Likewise the racks are made by Tubus for the same reason. I also wanted wheels with 36 spokes per wheel, again for strength.

I wanted STI levers because that's what I am used to. More specifically, I also wanted ones which hide all the gear and brake cables under the handlebar tape so I can easily fit a handlebar bag.

I wanted disc brakes because having had a lighter road bike which is fitted with them, I found them to be so much easier to keep in good adjustment than the cantilever and caliper type brakes that I had used in the past. Your mechanical skills may well be better than mine. Some much more experienced tourers than me are of the opinion (as expressed on the Cycling UK Forum) that strengthening forks to accommodate disc brakes negatively impacts on the ride quality, and therefore comfort of the subsequent bike.

One thing that I have changed on the bike I bought is the gearing. I thought that 26 front / 30 rear would give me a sufficiently low gear for the hills. I struggled with it and to get the 34 rear cog that I wanted, I had to change the rear derailleur and STI levers. I now "only' have 27 gears instead of 30 but the range is wider. Have a look at a gear ratio calculator to check what your chosen bike gives you. Something under 25 gear inches is usually recommended for the low ratio on a loaded tourer.

It may well be that an off the shelf bike that meets your specification is not available. Don't worry if its not. My advice would be to go for the one with the frame which meets your needs. Virtually everything else can be changed later (albeit with a negative impact on the budget) if required.

So what bike did I get? Dawes Super Galaxy. I got it in 2015. Specs change from year to year with all the manufacturers and models. What's available now might not be next year, for better, or for worse.

Have fun!


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## GmanUK65 (17 Jul 2018)

betty swollocks said:


> Thorn are touring bike specialists. Suggest you take a gander on the options they offer.
> What's your budget?


My budget would be around £1000 to 1400 but I would need to get it on finance. I know Tredz and Evans do finance so it is these that I have been looking at.


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## GmanUK65 (17 Jul 2018)

F70100 said:


> Not sure whether this information from Reynolds website will clear up, or add to, your confusion...
> 
> Reynolds are just one of the tubeset manufacturers. I don't know who supplies the tubeset for the Genesis bike.
> 
> ...


When I got your post it was within a pop up, I don't trust popups


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## F70100 (17 Jul 2018)

OK... 

Should be ok if you just read it in the thread .


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## GmanUK65 (17 Jul 2018)

betty swollocks said:


> Thorn are touring bike specialists. Suggest you take a gander on the options they offer.
> What's your budget?


I've just looked at the Thorn brochure and they look very good bikes. The Thorn Club Tour MK4 700c especially interests me but the price being over £1500 and little chance of finance, getting it is doubtful. I suppose I could use this to compare it against bikes I can get on finance


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## Ticktockmy (19 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> My budget would be around £1000 to 1400 but I would need to get it on finance. I know Tredz and Evans do finance so it is these that I have been looking at.



As you say in your original post that it will be a few years before you will go on tour, to save paying interest fee's why not start saving now. As to which bike to use, I have cycled down through Europe, Africa and Asia and have never used expensive cycles, for my Africa trip I used a cheap Raleigh Mirage, just added a pair of racks and panniers and away we went for 4 months. Only problem I had was the bottom bracket died when crossing the Nubian desert and I had to do a rebuild. It is all too easy to get drawn into thinking that throwing money at a bike will give you a reliable machine. Expensive bikes attracts sticky fingers whereas an battered old wreck is less attractive. Likewise, if you do have your cycle stolen or wrecked its not so bad, and you can buy a new one at the nearest cycle shop


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## Time Waster (19 Jul 2018)

Look at wheelbase on Staveley and ilkley. They do tour de fer and kona bikes. Up to 3 years interest free and you choose deposit and length of term to suit. It's with the usual V12 retail credit company though seems a better deal than most other bike shops that offer credit


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## GmanUK65 (26 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> When I got your post it was within a pop up, I don't trust popups


Sorry mate, I've realised it wasn't a pop up, I accidently clicked your name and not the post and a pop up of your profile came up. Sorry again


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## GmanUK65 (26 Jul 2018)

Well I've done a complete turn around with my bike choices. Don't want drop bars no more, I've realised on a lot of occasions after 50 miles or so I get a sore back or/and a sore neck, probably posture or bike fit needed. I used to have a hybrid and never a sore back so now I want flat bars.

Also, I have realised it is best to have the option of going on trails and I want 1.75 hybrid tyres for this, all the 700cc wheeled touring bikes I have found have thinner tyres, for 26 inch hybrid bikes there are options for 1.75 tyres, as well as the bike I think would suit me best - Ridgeback Expedition 2018

I've no doubt I will probably change my mind again in the future lol.


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## GmanUK65 (27 Jul 2018)

I'm back to not being sure again. I'm thinking, as people have said before, do I need a bike like the Ridgeback, or a thorn bike when I'm only going to Europe for 3 months. I need to find out how much kit I will be needing and the weight of that kit. If it's less than I think, will a hybrid be enough (one that pannier rack can be fitted) I suppose the info I need is, what is the maximum load a hybrid can take.


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## User66445 (27 Jul 2018)

Worry about this six months before you leave. Models, prices, and forum favorites change.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Jul 2018)

I would choose the lighter of your choices as it may cover more uses when you aren't touring. That said, my Surly is a round-the-worlder like some of the Thorn bikes, but I wouldn’t have it any other way and use it for EVERYTHING.


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## minininjarob (29 Jul 2018)

I love my Tour De Fer, my brother was impressed with it so much he bought one too. Lots of nice details such as kick stand mount, spare spoke mounts, 3 bottle mounts etc. Shows they’ve really thought about the frame design. I have 700c wheels with 35c tyres and they are enough to do light off road no problems, nice and comfy. 
I’ve converted mine to flat bars as that’s what I prefer. I also put some better wheels on. 
Can’t see me selling it as it does a bit of everthing and is so versatile.


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## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2018)

minininjarob said:


> I love my Tour De Fer, my brother was impressed with it so much he bought one too. Lots of nice details such as kick stand mount, spare spoke mounts, 3 bottle mounts etc. Shows they’ve really thought about the frame design. I have 700c wheels with 35c tyres and they are enough to do light off road no problems, nice and comfy.
> I’ve converted mine to flat bars as that’s what I prefer. I also put some better wheels on.
> Can’t see me selling it as it does a bit of everthing and is so versatile.


 Interesting - was always the drops that put me off what otherwise seemed a very nice bike to me.

Feel free to post a pic of it.

Expensive to swap from drops to flat? - a fair few bits to be disposed of/others bought?

Did you find that the frame size was still suitable without extensive jiggery pokery on the reach?


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## HobbesOnTour (29 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> I suppose the info I need is, what is the maximum load a hybrid can take.




How long is a piece of string?

It depends on the frame itself. And the wheels. And the spokes - quality, weave and tension. And the tyres - size and pressure. And the road surfaces. And the speed. And the temperature. And the location of the weight. And the maintenance. And....

And then, even if the bike can "take" the load how comfortable will it be to ride or descend hairpins in the Alps or Pyrenees? How will it handle off-road?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/trek-/1307311891

That's enough bike for what you want to do (so long as it fits).

At the very least it's enough bike to get you out, dipping your toes in overnight trips to help you figure out what you'll want to be bringing with you.

40 quid!
Use it, learn on it and if you want to get a "touring" bike, then you can sell it for probably the same as you paid for it.

Incidentally, if you look around on that site, you'll see a low mileage Ridgeback with 2 sets of Ortliebs for 550 quid!!

I've said it before; Getting out on a bike and going for a bit of a "tour" will teach you far more about what you need, don't need, what you like, don't like and what's really important.

Bike touring despite the name, is really not about the bike! It's about touring.
Indulge me....
The bike is only the base of the Bike Touring Pizza.
You have a choice of crispy or doughy, whatever your preference is. If you're not a weight weenie, go for a cheese injected crust
But the toppings that go on top - they're what make the Pizza! Oftentimes, if the toppings are good, it doesn't matter what type of base is underneath.

It seems you're trying to make the perfect pizza without trying any of the toppings to know what you like or don't like or what go together and what don't.
Instead, you're asking strangers on the internet what they like.

I'd never order a pizza that way!

I've toured from Holland to Spain, over the Pyrenees, followed the Camino de Santiago to Santiago (off-road), wandered the western coast of Spain and then back along the Northern coast of Spain (lots of mountains!) and back to NL on a no-name hybrid bike that cost me nothing other than a service.
In total that bike toured in 7 different countries and did about 12-15000 km fully loaded before a chainstay cracked (suspiciously where a stand had been attached).

That worked for me. I don't know if it will work for you.

It was stuck in mud about a foot deep along the Somme, rode through a flooded forest path that reached the top of my ortliebs near Pamplona, cruised down mountains at up to 70kmh in the Pyrenees (going up was not as fast!) and was pushed, dragged and sometimes carried over off-road hilltops.
All I needed from that bike was to be able to trust it to do what I wanted it to do. And it did.

It was of no use at the campsite in Sen Sebastian (on top of a hill) in the middle of the most wonderful thunderstorm! My tent was.
It was of no use when the campsite I headed to in France was closed - a friendly local was.
It was of no use in picking out a good place to eat - my nose was.

Now I tour on a rigid steel frame, 26 inch wheels for strength and dynohub efficiency. I've gone from 1,5 to 1,75 to 2,0 tyres, purely for comfort.
That's only somewhat useful to you until I add
I carry 4 panniers and a rack bag, total weight of about 25 kg.
That's only somewhat useful to you until I add
I also tour in winter and carry a largeish tent and full cooking gear for cooking real food, not re-hydrated stuff.

Other useful information to assess how useful my story is
My average daily distance and speed, (Average is 80-85 km per day, 18 kph)
My fitness level, (reasonable, I have a 42 km daily commute 5 days per week)
How long I cycle for per day, (I stop a lot, but probably an average of 5 hours per day)

No disrespect to anyone offering any advice on any of your threads but the advice they offer is from their perspective, including my own 

If someone tells you that they toured on thin racing tyres, then it might be useful to know they were staying in hotels, carried less than 5 kg of gear and never rode in the rain!
If someone tells you that they had to have tubeless fat tyres, front suspension and a bear bell it would be good to know that they rode the Great Divide Mountain Bike trail.

If you want to keep your dream alive, you need to find your own perspective, otherwise 2 years out from your tour, your dream is going to drown in too much information.

Good Luck!


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## Blue Hills (29 Jul 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Now I tour on a rigid steel frame, 26 inch wheels for strength and dynohub efficiency. !



Great post Hobbes - at the risk of a small thread divert can I ask you to elaborate a bit on the last point? Physics never my strong point. Have been considering a dynohub for charging a powerbank for a while, though possibly about to give up on the idea.


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## HobbesOnTour (29 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Great post Hobbes - at the risk of a small thread divert can I ask you to elaborate a bit on the last point? Physics never my strong point. Have been considering a dynohub for charging a powerbank for a while, though possibly about to give up on the idea.



Thanks!
Getting on a bike and heading off exploring was one of the best things I have done. So many people I meet express a wish to do the same and I find it hard to understand why they don't. I'm probably too evangelical when someone like the OP comes along, but I firmly believe that once someone tries it, they will see the reality rather than the confusion of steel vs aluminium, 26 vs 700, ortliebs vs anything else.

I'm no physicist myself, but my logic is that a smaller wheel turns faster than a larger wheel, therefore a smaller wheel can generate power at a lower speed than a larger wheel.

Of course, the size of the tyre has an influence too, so my current 2,0 tyres make the "wheel" bigger than my previous 1,5 tyres.

Given that I use the hub for touring, and I tend to tour slowly, that logic works for me. Stephen Peel of these forums found his dynohub wasn't generating power the way he expected. He has 700 wheels, big tyres and travels slowly.

As for if a dynohub is for you, well that depends on you!

There's 2 parts to the charging system.
1 Is the hub.
2. Is how you charge from it. There are a lot of options out there for this, and as a non-technical person I found it difficult to wade through and process.

At the end of the day I operate on the KISS principle and went for the simplest option possible. It also happened to be the cheapest!

My thought process was to reject any option that had a built in battery. Batteries fail and when they do so does your system. Also, I'd want to charge from sockets too, when I can. A built in battery makes that more difficult. Finally, something that look like a powerbank is attractive to just about everybody.
I rejected anything that was too big or bulky on the bike. It's used on a touring bike. There's already lots of things attached.
I rejected the light with a USB socket because my light is not attached at the crown. I have a platform rack and the light is attached at the front of that. That would lead to a long usb cable going to whatever I was charging.

So I chose the cycle2charge.de unit. A little larger than a bicycle bell it sits on my handlebars. (Threadless stems can accommodate them inside the top of the stem). Cable runs down to the hub. Minimum impact and almost invisible to a casual thief.

From that I can plug in my Wahoo GPS unit (Garmin didn't work with it - a feature of garmins) or more usually a powerbank either inside my handlebar bag (depending on weather or surface) but usually in an outside pocket where I can see if a cable is loose and monitor the charging progress.

Charging a powerbank and from that a phone etc, is not the most efficient way of charging. Power is lost at both ends of the equation. However, depending on the device, eg phone, it may switch off when you slow down and not restart when you speed up. To my way of thinking, that's not efficient at all! 

On a typical day of touring this system will generate enough power to recharge my Wahoo, my phone and still have some juice left over. I also need to recharge a tablet, kindle and rechargeable batteries. (I use the Wahoo mainly for tracking not so much for navigation, so it's always on. I use phone and tablet minimally. The kindle is second on the charging priority list)

I also carry an (old) fold out solar panel from before I had the dynohub. I use it at camp, or if I'm having a lazy day. It's remarkably efficient, especially when stationary. Not so great strapped on the back of a bike - but it will help in an emergency.

Depending on where and when you tour you don't need a dynohub, but I like the freedom of being self sufficient. I noticed in Spain that campsites were starting to charge for charging. I've no problem with that - it just means that you're limited by the opening hours of the office. And there have been some campsites I've been in where I was afraid something would happen to me in the bathrooms, never mind a powerbank! 
If you use the same bike for commuting for example, then it deserves more thought.

As for the Dynohub itself? I got the cheapest I could (Shimano) built into the original wheel of my MTB conversion. Nothing wrong with Shimano, but I'm not a fan of the plastic connector. Fine for commuting, not so much for touring.
When I upgraded my wheels, I got a set from SJSCycles with a Son28. Greater distance between servicing than Shimano. My Shimano is now on my commuter.

I carry 2 powerbanks, one large, one small. The idea is that one is charging while the other can simultaneously be used to charge something. Probably overkill, but when I do get the chance for a long socket charge then the big one gets plugged in and I have juice for up to a week.

Hope that didn't muddy the waters!


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## Serge (29 Jul 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Thanks!
> Getting on a bike and heading off exploring was one of the best things I have done. So many people I meet express a wish to do the same and I find it hard to understand why they don't. I'm probably too evangelical when someone like the OP comes along, but I firmly believe that once someone tries it, they will see the reality rather than the confusion of steel vs aluminium, 26 vs 700, ortliebs vs anything else.
> 
> I'm no physicist myself, but my logic is that a smaller wheel turns faster than a larger wheel, therefore a smaller wheel can generate power at a lower speed than a larger wheel.
> ...


Great advice, thanks for that.


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## HobbesOnTour (29 Jul 2018)

Serge said:


> Great advice, thanks for that.


Thanks!
You're welcome!


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## minininjarob (29 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Interesting - was always the drops that put me off what otherwise seemed a very nice bike to me.
> 
> Feel free to post a pic of it.
> 
> ...



I’ve got short arms so the reduction in length was ok but I ended up putting a longer stem on (20mm IIRC) and it was perfect. I’ve got Salsa Moto bars on it which are 25.4 for a bit of flex and 17 degree bend for comfort. 

The flat bar position should, I reckon be a bit forwards of where the tops would be on drop bars so a longer stem would probably be needed. The longer one I put on was a Hope XC stem - only £20 second hand as no one wants 25.4mm!!

You can normally sell the bars and levers for about the same money as the new ones cost so it shouldn’t be too much money to change to flats. I already had the shifters though. 

I sold the cable discs as new and put Deore touring hydraulic disc brakes on 180mm front and rear as they are really nice to use and resonably cheap. 

The wheels I put on were Mavic XM319 29er MTB rims on XT rear and Exposure dynamo on the front.


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## GmanUK65 (29 Jul 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> How long is a piece of string?
> 
> It depends on the frame itself. And the wheels. And the spokes - quality, weave and tension. And the tyres - size and pressure. And the road surfaces. And the speed. And the temperature. And the location of the weight. And the maintenance. And....
> 
> ...


Wow. I enjoyed reading this. Who knows if my dream will be kept alive but if I never think about it, plan it or do anything else about it, the dream will never stay alive. I have realised if I wait a year to gain the money to get a bike, I will have to wait more than a year to practice, again my dream may not stay alive. So, I've made the fist step. Hopefully I will be getting a Dawes touring bike on the cycle to work scheme, I'm waiting for the certificate and should get it by next week and the bike the following week. Just the tent sleeping bag and panniers needed next and I'll be practicing in the British countryside


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## minininjarob (30 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Wow. I enjoyed reading this. Who knows if my dream will be kept alive but if I never think about it, plan it or do anything else about it, the dream will never stay alive. I have realised if I wait a year to gain the money to get a bike, I will have to wait more than a year to practice, again my dream may not stay alive. So, I've made the fist step. Hopefully I will be getting a Dawes touring bike on the cycle to work scheme, I'm waiting for the certificate and should get it by next week and the bike the following week. Just the tent sleeping bag and panniers needed next and I'll be practicing in the British countryside



At the end of the day any bike will do as long as its comfy and holds together. People nowadays worry too much about frame materials, groupsets, angles etc etc etc etc!!!!!! Not so long ago we just used whatever bike we had to do whatever we wanted to do. Modern bikes can pretty much do anything - even a full carbon road bike with carbon wheels is crazy strong for its weight and would survive some offroad (see the Road Bike Party YouTube videos for proof!).

I did a C2C about 4 years ago and I only had my old 1994 Kona Kilauea MTB. I bunged some slicks, rack and higher stem on and just did it. The bike was great and you soon forget about the angles and frame materials when you are setting off on your journey. To be honest I don't think my TDF is much better than the Kona in the end.
I've also got a Kinesis Racelight road bike I've done a bit of touring on. I used the mudguard mounts it has to bob a rack on. Worked a treat. Was a bit faster and less comfy over all day but it coped fine.

Don't stress about 631 this, double butted that, 8/9/10/11 speed. Most modern bikes are really good and do what they say on the tin - you can't get a stinker these days. We have so much choice it makes things more difficult in some ways.

If we spent half the time riding than we do choosing our bikes and kit we'd have a lot more stories to tell...


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## minininjarob (30 Jul 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> How long is a piece of string?
> 
> It depends on the frame itself. And the wheels. And the spokes - quality, weave and tension. And the tyres - size and pressure. And the road surfaces. And the speed. And the temperature. And the location of the weight. And the maintenance. And....
> 
> ...



I have to say I didn't read this before I put my 2p's worth in but it has the same sentiment! Just get on a bike, any bike, and enjoy the "touring" bit, rather than stressing about the "cycle" bit.


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## Salar (30 Jul 2018)

I've toured around France on an old Marin MTB with just slicks added and a cheap rack also on an old Raleigh 5 speed "racing" bike from the 70's with just a large saddlebag.

As said above the bike is only part of the tour.

When you think about it most bikes will do the job ( not full suspension though!).

You only have three points of contact, feet, hands and backside, if this triangle more or less line up with the geometry of a touring bike you should be ok. 

Secondary, wheelbase and bottom bracket height might come into it as well as gearing, old MTB's suit this requirement nicely.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jul 2018)

minininjarob said:


> I have to say I didn't read this before I put my 2p's worth in but it has the same sentiment! Just get on a bike, any bike, and enjoy the "touring" bit, rather than stressing about the "cycle" bit.



I do like this sentiment and similar ones from others, but having toured on an old Mongoose MTB that was a bit too big, I genuinely can say, part of ‘enjoying the tour’ on my Surly, is that I’m not worrying about reliability.


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## minininjarob (30 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Wow. I enjoyed reading this. Who knows if my dream will be kept alive but if I never think about it, plan it or do anything else about it, the dream will never stay alive. I have realised if I wait a year to gain the money to get a bike, I will have to wait more than a year to practice, again my dream may not stay alive. So, I've made the fist step. Hopefully I will be getting a Dawes touring bike on the cycle to work scheme, I'm waiting for the certificate and should get it by next week and the bike the following week. Just the tent sleeping bag and panniers needed next and I'll be practicing in the British countryside



The Dawes will be great, not because its better than other bikes (it may or may not be, they've been making touring bikes since God was a kid so it'll be fine!) but because its a bike, and you'll be riding it!

Anyway you asked for pics.....

My "Touring Bike", Genesis TDF converted to flat bars - I have different bars on now and no bar ends, plus a B&M light system that charges my phone - see loaded up pic below!








My Kinesis Racelight - triple Ultegra, can fit a rear rack! Carbon bars so high up as I'm fat....




1994 Kona Kilauea converted for touring with a high stem and slicks - starting the C2C!!




Nearly there - this is what its all about....


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## Tin Pot (30 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Do you know of any other bikes I should consider





> Since its original conception and fine tuning in two successive editions of the mythical Tour d’Afrique in 2012 and 2013 (genesis to which the bicycle’s livery pays homage), the Hobo Bootleg, has broken the Guinness World Record for crossing the world by bicycle as well as conquered all seven of the world’s highest mountain passes and dialed up more than a million kilometres in adventure riding.


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## minininjarob (30 Jul 2018)

That Cinelli is poor value for money compared to most of its rivals. Not even got disc brakes. Cheap chainset and finishing kit too. As usual trying to cash in on the Cinelli name but they are 10 years behind the rest with that bike I’m afraid.


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## HobbesOnTour (30 Jul 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Hopefully I will be getting a Dawes touring bike on the cycle to work scheme, I'm waiting for the certificate and should get it by next week and the bike the following week. Just the tent sleeping bag and panniers needed next and I'll be practicing in the British countryside



Good man! I'm delighted for you!

Now the bad news....

I'm not sure 2 years is enough time to find the perfect tent and panniers! 

Your next posts should be about where you're going on your first overnighter!  

Whenever you pick up that bike I hope you start to think like your tour has started!


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jul 2018)

minininjarob said:


> That Cinelli is poor value for money compared to most of its rivals. Not even got disc brakes. Cheap chainset and finishing kit too. As usual trying to cash in on the Cinelli name but they are 10 years behind the rest with that bike I’m afraid.



But ain’t it pretty?


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## minininjarob (30 Jul 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> But ain’t it pretty?



I don’t think so, boring colour and naff graphics. Not much thought gone into it IMHO.


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## Blue Hills (30 Jul 2018)

minininjarob said:


> I don’t think so, boring colour and naff graphics. Not much thought gone into it IMHO.


I like the colour. Are you really the sort of person who worries about graphics on a long distance tourer? I saw one at a show and was very impressed, not least by the fact that an italian company had specced a square taper bb. What's wrong with the chainset? Why do you consider it "cheap"? "Finishing kit"? Care to define the term and what's wrong with it on that bike? Not even disc? By no means a universally accepted truth that a tourer has to have discs.


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## SkipdiverJohn (30 Jul 2018)

Not totally convinced about the frame/geometry. Wheelbase looks a bit on the short side for a Tourer, IMHO. My old Raleigh hybrids and rigid MTB's have got longer wheelbases than that.


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## raleighnut (30 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Not totally convinced about the frame/geometry. Wheelbase looks a bit on the short side for a Tourer, IMHO. My old Raleigh hybrids and rigid MTB's have got longer wheelbases than that.


The rack does seem well back TBH.


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## minininjarob (31 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I like the colour. Are you really the sort of person who worries about graphics on a long distance tourer? I saw one at a show and was very impressed, not least by the fact that an italian company had specced a square taper bb. What's wrong with the chainset? Why do you consider it "cheap"? "Finishing kit"? Care to define the term and what's wrong with it on that bike? Not even disc? By no means a universally accepted truth that a tourer has to have discs.



First of all I very much doubt the bike they profess to have ridden around the world had the same spec as the one they are selling. It’s possible but if I was speccing a bike up I’d choose wiser than they have. 

Firstly the frame. Material is ok but the geometry just isn’t what I would call touring. Compared to a Genesis TDF it’s an inch shorter in the chainstay. This affects stability, it’ll mean your heels are much more likely to hit your panniers. It is doubtful you’d be able to fit a kickstand with a chainstay that short. The wheel base is a lot shorter which isn’t great for touring either. The B.B. drop is shorter too so you’ll feel more perched on top of the bike rather than sitting in it. 
It looks very much like a winter training bike which has had an extra bottle cage mount and canti studs welded on rather than a properly designed tourer like the TDF. The TDF has a centre stand mount and spare spokes mounted on a special pair of braze ons. That’s great design. 

I’ll keep comparing to a TDF for the drivetrain. The TDF 20 is the same price as the Cinelli but it manages to fit ALL Deore kit on rather than just the rear mech. Cinelli have gone down the “put a fancy rear mech on” to sell the bike but Genesis have managed to fit a Deore HT2 chainset with lower gears much better for touring, Deore front and rear mech and B.B and shifters. AND it’s 10 speed rather than 9 so a lot more money has been spent on kit for the same selling price. The Cinelli has a cheap FSA chainset - they are naff cheaply made items which are only ever fitted as OEM items to save money - no one ever buys them aftermarket unless CRC sells them mega cheap.
The TDF 10 has a more similar spec to the Cinelli but it’s 20% or £300 cheaper. 

Cinelli has cheap cantis on, the TDF has discs. For 99% of people discs will be better. Maybe you can argue that if you are doing proper wilderness touring in remote areas of the world some rims brakes would be better but I’d take my chances with discs as they are super reliable and anyway the Cinelli wouldn’t be up to such trips anyway, you’d go and buy a Thorn anyway. 

The finishing kit on both is fairly similar, stuff bought in the Far East with their name printed on it. I reckon the tyres on the TDF (Schwalbe Marathons) edge the Cinelli (Vitoria Randonneur) a bit but that’s more personal choice. 

The TDF plays its trump card next - the wheels. Shimano 525 rear hub - a MTB stalwart - strong and well sealed. But it wins easily with an SP dynamo front hub. The Cinelli has ok Sora hubs but in 32 hole rather than 36 - errr why? 

The TDF kicks dirt at the Cinelli a bit more with a full set of B&M Dynamo lights. Ok the Cinelli has a front rack but I’d rather have the very nice hubs (expensive to replace as new wheels are often the same price as replacing hubs). 

Cinelli spend half the time on their website saying how trendy their bike is (specially printed bar tape - are they crazy?) rather than saying why it’s a good touring bike. Which is probably a good thing as it just isn’t. 

Don’t be fooled by the Cinelli name - they have made other niche bikes which are the same, banking on their name and some crazy graphics or grips to sell the bike. 

This one is just an old steel winter training bike with cantis on. Not a touring bike at all.


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## SkipdiverJohn (31 Jul 2018)

Take a look at this early 90's Raleigh ATB in Reynolds 501 cro-moly, which makes no pretensions to being a tourer - but certainly has touring-friendly geometry (71* head/73* seat) long chainstays, and a long overall wheelbase. Stick a set of mudguards and a rack on that, fit some Schwalbe Marathons instead of knobblys and it would get you anywhere you could possibly want to go.


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## HobbesOnTour (31 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Take a look at this early 90's Raleigh ATB in Reynolds 501 cro-moly, which makes no pretensions to being a tourer - but certainly has touring-friendly geometry (71* head/73* seat) long chainstays, and a long overall wheelbase. Stick a set of mudguards and a rack on that, fit some Schwalbe Marathons instead of knobblys and it would get you anywhere you could possibly want to go.
> 
> View attachment 421798




But... but.... but.... it's got pink in it's colour scheme! 

I did that with an old Trek. And it does get me anywhere I want to go!

One day, just for fun, I compared my bike to a Surly LHT frame. Almost identical!

My "What Bike?" philosophy was settled on my very first bike tour, at an old concentration camp along the Danube of all places!
In the museum was a 1920's bike. You know the ones with front brakes only, no cables but a steel rod. Gears? 
It had been stolen from a nearby village by a Polish inmate of the camp and ridden back to Poland from Austria at the end of the war. After the man died, his family returned it. He had kept it all his life because it was what gave him his freedom.

I had sweated and struggled and cursed my way up a hill to get to that camp. Looking at that bike made me feel a little ashamed of myself.

If I'm ever having a bad day on the bike I think of him, on the run on a stolen bike, quite literally in enemy country, food and water almost impossible to find, a man trying to get home through a warzone. It gives a little perspective.


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## raleighnut (31 Jul 2018)

minininjarob said:


> First of all I very much doubt the bike they profess to have ridden around the world had the same spec as the one they are selling. It’s possible but if I was speccing a bike up I’d choose wiser than they have.
> 
> Firstly the frame. Material is ok but the geometry just isn’t what I would call touring. Compared to a Genesis TDF it’s an inch shorter in the chainstay. This affects stability, it’ll mean your heels are much more likely to hit your panniers. It is doubtful you’d be able to fit a kickstand with a chainstay that short. The wheel base is a lot shorter which isn’t great for touring either. The B.B. drop is shorter too so you’ll feel more perched on top of the bike rather than sitting in it.
> It looks very much like a winter training bike which has had an extra bottle cage mount and canti studs welded on rather than a properly designed tourer like the TDF. The TDF has a centre stand mount and spare spokes mounted on a special pair of braze ons. That’s great design.
> ...



When Shimano go back to making decent quality square taper cranksets (with rebuildable bottom brackets that have decent shafts) then the FSA crank can be called 'cheapo' but until they do it's probably the best they can find. Don't get me wrong HT2 is a good system (I've got it fitted to 4 of my bikes) but the BB fitted to my 20+yr old Ridgeback is still on it's original shaft and cups although the bearings have been changed 4-5 times (and serviced probably twice as often)

For me it is the ideal 'midweight' tourer (I've also got a 'heavyweight' tourer (old Raleigh MTB) and a 'lightweight' weekend away one.


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## minininjarob (31 Jul 2018)

User said:


> Lots of opinion there masquerading as fact...
> 
> Lots of manufacturers of touring bikes (e.g. vsf, Thorn, Koga) are still producing heavy duty tourers without disc brakes. But what would they know, eh...?



I know some people still prefer rim brakes, they are often specced on proper back country tourers. Same with Sq taper BB's, I still have an XT one on my 94 Kona Kilauea. They aren't bad things BUT they are generally the *cheaper* options to spec on a full bike. 

My whole point is that the Cinelli is a £1100 bike selling for £1500 because it has a Cinelli sticker on it. If you are happy paying £400 for the name thats fine, go for it, if you are a badge snob then it's probably worth it to you.


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## minininjarob (31 Jul 2018)

raleighnut said:


> When Shimano go back to making decent quality square taper cranksets (with rebuildable bottom brackets that have decent shafts)



You don't need to wait for them to remake them, any sealed sq taper BB from the 1990's is virtually indestructible - get a 2nd hand one! I've got a box with about 15 of them in (various axle lengths) taken off a variety of ruined/grotty/rusted retro MTB's and every single one of them is buttery smooth and tight. Love 'em!


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## minininjarob (31 Jul 2018)

User said:


> Oh dear...
> 
> You really don't know when to stop digging, do you?



You need to go back and have a look at the  face I put in to show I was pulling your leg a bit. Don't take everything so seriously!


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## Blue Hills (2 Aug 2018)

minininjarob said:


> It is doubtful you’d be able to fit a kickstand .......
> 
> . The TDF has a centre stand mount and spare spokes mounted on a special pair of braze ons. That’s great design.
> 
> ...



Some very strong personal opinions there. But just that.

I won't get into frame geometry as I don't pretend to be an expert.

But a few points.

If it's doubtful you can fit a kickstand I'm very doubtul that that matters a jot. Have never felt the slightest need for one on any sort of bike, let alone a heavily loaded tourer/exped bike. And as I understand it you have to be pretty careful fitting the things or you can trash a bike.

Spare spokes on a mount - hardy a key great design point. A detail. And I had the impression that some at least of those Cinelli's have this.

Deore rear mech but not on the front. You state this as some sort of con. I don't see it as that. Front mechs are pretty simple things (in fact the simpler the better) - main thing is that they are compatible with your chainset and have a good spring. My Ridgeback Expedition came with a Deore rear and an Alivio front. I don't feel conned. The front changes wonderfully on the Expedition's set-up and I am thinking of buying another one or two as lifetime spares to maintain this happy situation. Can be had cheap. Nothing really wrong with Alivio. One of my favourite bikes is currently running a 20 year old Altus (below Alivio) which works fine. New ones can be had for about seven quid.

There seems to be a certain theme in your post of newer/"higher spec" being better. I would argue not necessarily so. I see HT2 as superfluous on a tourer. My Hewitt has it but if I knew what I know now I would have specced a square taper. Minus to Hewitt for not signalling this to me as a valid alternative. Plus to Cinelli for speccing it on their bike. And not worrying if this is "behind the times". They deserve extra marks for being Italian and doing this.

Gearing - you maybe have a point and I would go for lower gearing but it would suit some riders. Not a deal breaker. In time other chainsets from the likes of Spa could be substituted. Square taper.

It's only 9 speed rather than 10? Congratulations to Cinelli for this. If they have saved some money in speccing this, more power to them. And if they haven't passed on any cost saving (you seem to say that this is their motive) in other bits of the bike, but have just kept it as profit, well for me they are welcome to it. For the trouble they have saved me. And possible expense in shifting a bike "back" to 9 speed. I was put off a standard spec LHT a few years ago after I found that, inexplicably, the makers of this tough beast had gone to 10 speed. No advantage whatsoever for a tourer.

Rim rather than discs? - there is a valid debate on which is better on a long distance tourer. Definitely not the case that discs are indisputably better.

Tyres? All standard model bikes are a compromise of sorts. The average person is happy that they have found an off the peg bike that hits most of what they want. For of course you benefit from the economies of the bike manufacturer getting trade price on all the bits. No one sane is going to reject a bike because of the tyres. My Ridgeback Expedition came with a variety of Schwalbes I quite liked but, perhaps surprisingly, they seemed a bit puncture prone. No problem - I switched the rear to a Marathon for £20 and I now have two fronts.

The wheels - it is normal for manufacturers of all but the most specialist (and therefore significantly expensive) bikes to save money here. And, given the eagle eye with which potential customers eye price points, I can empathise with them. My Exped bike came with decent wheels but I wouldn't really trust them on a long long trip loaded the way I load. But I am using them in the meantime. Not a great problem to buy some more wheels (and I stress that the originals will not be dumped) since the rest of the bike is so so close to my ideal. And economical to boot.
I also find your scathing comments on the wheels a bit odd as I have the impression from some of your other posts that you are something close to a credit card tourist and don't carry camping or cooking gear. For this I am sure they will be fine. If you want to "slum" it more, then just get the extra/spare wheels for those trips into the unknown.

The Cinelli comes with two tubus racks.Quality serious items. You could easily pay £150 retail for these.

In short I think you are being too tough on the thing and apearing to demand more "advanced" expensive bits where they are no advantage and may be a significant disadvantage.


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## minininjarob (2 Aug 2018)

I wish you'd actually read what I wrote. I don't have a problem with _*what*_ they specced, after all a lot of bike choice is very personal. Its the fact that they are charging much much more than what the bike is actually worth. The genesis was maybe a poor example as its a more modern style tourer, I was just using it as an example of a similarly priced price which has much more expensive stuff on it.



> And if they haven't passed on any cost saving (you seem to say that this is their motive) in other bits of the bike, but have just kept it as profit, well for me they are welcome to it. For the trouble they have saved me.



You would buy this Cinelli, even though you could buy an almost identical bike for half the price, just because you like how they spec it? Are you their advertising manager? 

Have a look at the Jamis Aurora touring bike at Evans - £680 and almost the bike as the Cinelli:

* Jamis £680 (current sale price)*
Frame Reynolds 520 double-butted chromoly main tubes with SST tubing diameters, double-tapered cromo stays, extended head tube with reinforced collars, forged dropouts, fender/rack eyelets and 3 spoke carrier
Fork Lugged semi-sloping chromoly with canti bosses, low-rider carrier braze-ons, forged dropout with fender eyelets
Front Derailleur Shimano Sora FDR3030 with 28.6mm alloy clamp
Rear Derailleur Shimano Sora RD-R3000GS
Shifters microSHIFT bar-end shifters with index or friction option, 27-speed
Chain set FSA Alpha Drive, 48/36/26T
Chain KMC Z99
Brakeset Tektro 992 forged alloy cantilevers with Tektro RL340 road brake levers
Handlebars Jamis Ergo, 6061 aluminum, 31.8
Stem Jamis adjustable threadless system (ATS), forged aluminum, 10˚ x 90mm (47/50), 105mm (53/55), 115mm (57/59/62). ATS shim length 100mm
Wheelset Alex ACE19 eyeleted double walled rims, 36H, Shimano Tiagra RS400 hubs with QR and 14g stainless steel spokes
Tyres Vittoria Randonneur with Double Shielding puncture protection, 700 x 32c
Saddle Jamis Touring Sport with pressure relief cut-out
Seatpost Jamis alloy micro-adjust, 27.2 x 300mm with cromo seat pin
Accessories Rear Rack, Front & Rear Mudguards
* Cinelli £1199 (current sale price)*
Frame Columbus Cromor - double butted top and down tubes
Fork Columbus Cr-Mo Steel 1-1/8"
Front Derailleur SHIMANO Sora
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore 9-speed
Shifters Microshift BS-T09 Bar End
Chain set FSA Alpha Drive Trekking, 26/36/48t, XS,S,M-170mm, L,XL,XXL-175mm
Chain KMC X9
Brakeset Tektro Cantilever
Handlebars Cinelli 31,8 mm Long Distance Traveller Sweep
Stem Cinelli 31,8 mm
Wheelset Alex Rims, Sora Hubs
Tyres Vittoria Randonneur Trail 700x38 mm
Saddle San Marco Ischia bootleg Custom
Seatpost Bootleg 31,6 mm
Accessories Tubus Front & Rear Racks, Front & Rear Mudguards

The only advantage that the cinelli has is the Tubus racks, which are very nice but don't suit everyone. Even adding them to the Jamis gets you a massive saving.

The only reason to buy the Cinelli is because of the name on the frame.



> I also find your scathing comments on the wheels a bit odd as I have the impression from some of your other posts that you are something close to a credit card tourist and don't carry camping or cooking gear. For this I am sure they will be fine.



Firstly, there's no need to get personal, and the riding I do you have no idea about, so I would kindly ask you not to presume.



> If you want to "slum" it more, then just get the extra/spare wheels for those trips into the unknown.



So although the spec you say is better for the more adventurous tourist, you admit the wheels aren't up to it? Which is exactly what I'm saying.

Actually looking at it that Jamis is an absolute steal at £680..... surely I don't need _another_ bike???


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## HobbesOnTour (2 Aug 2018)

Hey, OP!

I bet you're glad that you got your Dawes on the way to you!

Just look at how difficult it can be to pick a touring bike! 

And remember, the important thing to take from this thread is that once you have done your research , you need to poop on everybody else's decisions. *That's* the important thing about bike touring! 

@minininjarob Thanks for inspiring my new motto - "Riding specs gives me a pain in my ass"


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## minininjarob (2 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Hey, OP!
> 
> I bet you're glad that you got your Dawes on the way to you!
> 
> ...



I think nowadays nearly all bikes ride well so the only discussion left is whether they suit what you want to use it for and are they decent value for money. 

There was a time you rode one bike for everything, it was a simpler time! 

I think if I had to choose one bike over all my others I’d keep my touring bike, so I hope the OP has many years of fun on their bike. 

When you’re pedalling the specs don’t matter too much thankfully.


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## GmanUK65 (3 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Good man! I'm delighted for you!
> 
> Now the bad news....
> 
> ...


As it happens the cycle to work scheme refused me the money I needed so today Ive ordered the bike through Tredz on 0% finance along with a pair of QL2.1 Ortliebs pannier bags, waterproof trousers and a Ortliebs handlebar pack. 

The last item I may have some problems with as the bike has butterfly handlebars and I don't know how the bag could be fitted, oops! So just a tent and sleeping bag now. I think a cheap tent and sleeping bag would do to practice with. It's gonna be winterish weather in about 3 months so you are right I need to hurry.


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## Blue Hills (4 Aug 2018)

Getting into sale period for tents with biggest discounts(though narrowing choice) round about the turn of the year. Tents for cycling a big subject in itself - check out threads on here or start a new one if interested. Sleeping bags - a big debate between synthetic or down - worth checking out snugpak, particularly their factory shop if you ever get their way.


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## GmanUK65 (4 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Getting into sale period for tents with biggest discounts(though narrowing choice) round about the turn of the year. Tents for cycling a big subject in itself - check out threads on here or start a new one if interested. Sleeping bags - a big debate between synthetic or down - worth checking out snugpak, particularly their factory shop if you ever get their way.


Yes I've been contimplating on down or synthetic but the drawbacks on down are price and if wet you're knackered though don't know what's different if a synthetic one gets wet? Synthetic ones are cheaper and so cheap, easily affordable to replace. I think it depends on how often you are going to use it.

I've also checked out the seasons of sleeping bags and for the summer only 1 to 2 season sleeping bags are advised. The only seasons I have found for down sleeping bags is as low as 3 so might be a bit warm for summer. Are there down 1 to 2 sleeping bags?

As I will probably only be planning on going on spring to early autumn trips, I think synthetic would be my choice


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## GmanUK65 (4 Aug 2018)

Just in case the people I replied to who I thought was slagging off the bike I had bought but we're not (they were slagging off the Cinelli) seen the posts. I've deleted them now


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## raleighnut (5 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Yes I've been contimplating on down or synthetic but the drawbacks on down are price and if wet you're knackered though don't know what's different if a synthetic one gets wet? Synthetic ones are cheaper and so cheap, easily affordable to replace. I think it depends on how often you are going to use it.
> 
> I've also checked out the seasons of sleeping bags and for the summer only 1 to 2 season sleeping bags are advised. The only seasons I have found for down sleeping bags is as low as 3 so might be a bit warm for summer. Are there down 1 to 2 sleeping bags?
> 
> As I will probably only be planning on going on spring to early autumn trips, I think synthetic would be my choice


I'd go for at least a 3 season bag, you can always undo the zip if you're too warm but it's a bugger trying to sleep if you're cold in spring/autumn when there's a chance of a bit of frost overnight.


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## HobbesOnTour (5 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> As it happens the cycle to work scheme refused me the money I needed so today Ive ordered the bike through Tredz on 0% finance along with a pair of QL2.1 Ortliebs pannier bags, waterproof trousers and a Ortliebs handlebar pack.
> 
> The last item I may have some problems with as the bike has butterfly handlebars and I don't know how the bag could be fitted, oops! So just a tent and sleeping bag now. I think a cheap tent and sleeping bag would do to practice with. It's gonna be winterish weather in about 3 months so you are right I need to hurry.



Well, you've been having an up and down experience!

That's a pity about the BTW scheme.
But you're going all out getting your gear! 

I've an Arkel handlebar bag because I didn't like the Ortlieb. I'd be surprised if you can't mount the Ortlieb on butterfly bars. Remember, you can mount them frontways or backways. In any case, it shouldn't be an issue to change the handlebars to flats. I've done it with mine. I tried Butterflys, didn't like them, so went back to flats.

As for the tent/sleeping bag.... slow down! :-)

Issues to consider for the tent: (My own opinions)
Size. Just how big does it need to be, how big do you want it to be, and what is practical.
You can get teeny tiny tents ( I call 'em coffin tents) that are really light and have a small profile - really good for wild camping. But anymore than a couple of nights in one & I'd be going crazy! Or a long rainy day.,
Consider also space for cooking in inclement weather or space for your gear/bike if that's an issue for you.

Ease of erection (Ooooooh! Missus!!) No good having a tent that's a PITA to try to put up. Or take down. Or only good in certain situations and useless in others.

Groundsheet/Footprint. A lot of modern tents have thin floors so an extra footprint is advisable. More weight, cost and sometimes complicates the erection process.

Overall packsize & weight, because you do have carry the thing! (Remember you can split a tent into a couple of bags).

If you plan on being on the road for 3 months, a good tent choice is important to the success and enjoyment of your tour. Don't rush the purchase.


Sleeping Bags:
Down is lighter than synthetic, and supposed to be warmer.
Down is much less effective than synthetic when wet.
Down requires more care in terms of laundry/drying.
Down packs smaller than synthetic, so down gives more warmth value per space taken than synthetic. In theory.
Of course, there are improvements in tech all the time, so some of those statements are debatable.
The temp rating on the bag is very personal. If it says comfortable to 0C, that may work for me, but not for you.

And don't forget a sleeping pad/mat. In cooler temps a good mat will overcome the deficiencies of a poor bag.

Can you borrow a tent?
In these temps a sleeping bag may not even be necessary. A couple of nights in a tent will teach you a lot more than a few weeks online.

I've a 3 season synthetic bag. In winter I supplement that with a merino wool liner. I use a Thermarest pad. Not one of the ultralight ones. It packs a bit big. In winter aluminium foil wrap under the pad.

My longest tour was in a cheapy Coleman tunnel tent. Heavy, but a delight. Easy to put up, handled everything thrown at it. Tough as nails. I think it cost me about Euro 45.
I've since splashed out on a far more expensive 4 season tent. And hate it! Way too finnicky.

Good luck!


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## GmanUK65 (8 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Well, you've been having an up and down experience!
> 
> That's a pity about the BTW scheme.
> But you're going all out getting your gear!
> ...


Good advice thanks. For the tour I am planning on buying a £200ish tent I've got 3 years to get that, but for practicing I think I will only need a cheap £50ish tent (I need to start practicing from this year and don't fancy winter camping so that gives me only 3 or 4 months tops this year). 
The only reason I am buying the extra things with the bike is because I had to make the price up to over £850 to get finance from Tredz but I would have had to get them eventually anyway.


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## GmanUK65 (8 Aug 2018)

raleighnut said:


> I'd go for at least a 3 season bag, you can always undo the zip if you're too warm but it's a bugger trying to sleep if you're cold in spring/autumn when there's a chance of a bit of frost overnight.


Good point, cheers


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## Ticktockmy (8 Aug 2018)

I use a 3 season down sleeping bag, I know some people will say that one of down's drawbacks is that when they get wet they are a nightmare to dry, I bought mine in 1982, and have used it for cycle touring and backpacking since then. and never had any problems. I know you want to buy cheap to practice, but buy cheap and you can have bad experainces as cheap can fail under poor conditions, buy more expensive gear and it will last a life time and will give you a much better experancie and if cycle touring you find is not for you it has a greater resale value.


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## HobbesOnTour (8 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Good advice thanks. For the tour I am planning on buying a £200ish tent I've got 3 years to get that, but for practicing I think I will only need a cheap £50ish tent (I need to start practicing from this year and don't fancy winter camping so that gives me only 3 or 4 months tops this year).
> The only reason I am buying the extra things with the bike is because I had to make the price up to over £850 to get finance from Tredz but I would have had to get them eventually anyway.



** apologies! The apostrophe seems to have disappeared from my keyboard! 


Given that you have given yourself lots of time to prepare, Id be wary of setting budgets for your gear at this early stage.
Id be more focused on what I want in a tent - size, weight, vestibule etc. The difference ( a lot of the time between your 50 tent and your 300 tent is not the design, but the materials used in terms of weight & quality). Any camping shop that has tents on display should be your first place to visit. Second is campsites- to see others tents in the flesh and to talk to people about what they like, dont like etc.

Oh! And dont knock winter camping until youve tried it!  I never would have thought Id enjoy it, but its quieter, and the longer nights are very calming. Its a great way to really test your clothing & gear. You should also check out Warmshowers - a touring cyclist mutual hosting site. A good way to go for a mini-tour in the winter without camping and meet similarly minded people (as a guest and a host).



Ticktockmy said:


> I use a 3 season down sleeping bag, I know some people will say that one of down's drawbacks is that when they get wet they are a nightmare to dry, I bought mine in 1982, and have used it for cycle touring and backpacking since then. and never had any problems. I know you want to buy cheap to practice, but buy cheap and you can have bad experainces as cheap can fail under poor conditions, buy more expensive gear and it will last a life time and will give you a much better experancie and if cycle touring you find is not for you it has a greater resale value.


Good advice on the purchasing. Theres always the conflict between buying good once, or buying crappy several times. The problem is figuring out whats good for you! 

I went for a synthetic bag because I wanted to be comfortable when away from civilisation for days at a time. For most people who are never far from a town and back at home on a regular basis theres no significant disadvantage to a down bag, and they can enjoy the smaller packsize and greater warmth.


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## GmanUK65 (11 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Getting into sale period for tents with biggest discounts(though narrowing choice) round about the turn of the year. Tents for cycling a big subject in itself - check out threads on here or start a new one if interested. Sleeping bags - a big debate between synthetic or down - worth checking out snugpak, particularly their factory shop if you ever get their way.


I checked out Snugpak sleeping bags from an online site named Military Kit and found their sleeping bags catered for taller people (I'm 6' 3). The Snugpak Sleeper Light sounds good (2-3 season, 220cm length, £40)

From same site, they sell plenty other kinds of camping kit. Has anyone had any experience with Snugpak tents? There is one I've got my eyes on, the Snugpak Scorpion. I cannot decide on this or the Burghaus Peak 3.2 Pro, any suggestions?


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## HobbesOnTour (12 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> I checked out Snugpak sleeping bags from an online site named Military Kit and found their sleeping bags catered for taller people (I'm 6' 3). The Snugpak Sleeper Light sounds good (2-3 season, 220cm length, £40)
> 
> From same site, they sell plenty other kinds of camping kit. Has anyone had any experience with Snugpak tents? There is one I've got my eyes on, the Snugpak Scorpion. I cannot decide on this or the Burghaus Peak 3.2 Pro, any suggestions?



Personally, I'd go for a better sleeping bag. The specs I've seen for the Sleeper light says 2 season - Spring/Summer. You'll be gone for 3 months, maybe longer, covering a lot of different terrain. It get's cold in the mountains - even in the summertime. Or after a wet day it can be pretty luxurious to warm up inside a warm sleeping bag. You can always cool down in a warm sleeping bag, you can't always warm up in a cold one.

As for the tent, rather than ask people what they like, how about you tell us what you're looking for, or why you like any of theses particular tents?

It really, really doesn't matter if I come on here and say, yeah, Snugpak Scorpion 2 is the best tent you can get. If I'm not using my tent in the same way you'll be using yours, then my advice isn't worth diddlysquat.

Of far more benefit to you will be to get out there and see these tents in the wild! And all the other types there are.

All the online discussion in the world won't really help you to understand how a tent works in the real world and what is important to you.

Every tent has its advantages and disadvantages. And they differ from person to person.

For example, both of the tents you suggested are tunnel type designs with a vestibule at the front. That's where you will store your gear. That's also your only entry and exit point. Is the vestibule big enough to accommodate your gear? is it big enough to let you in and out easily with your gear in it? You're not going to want to be dragging your wet gear into the sleeping area of your tent!
Normally, these tents are erected facing into the wind. In wet and windy weather then, there is little shelter if you need to cook in your vestibule. 
Maybe neither of these things are important to you. 
Maybe they will be later on (when you're cold after a long wet day on the bike, and you're eating a cold sandwich in your tent because you can't cook or even make a cup of tea without getting soaked and getting ready to climb into a 2 season bag)

You're going to be using your tent every night for at least 3 months. That is vastly different to the guy or gal who likes to take weekend trips. 
It's pishing rain? Some tourers will take a hotel. I don't think that's in your budget, so you'll have to sit it out. 

I understand that your budget is very tight. But you have at least 2 years to get your tent. A lot of bargains will come and go in that time - if you know what to look for. It could actually be a lot of fun!

I'd suggest you have a look around online to pick up a 2 man tent second hand and try your hand at that. 
If you paid 40 quid for it and used it for 20 nights that works out at 2 quid per night. That strikes me as a very cheap way of learning.
Then, when you know what you want you can pay over some more money with confidence.

You've already learned the perils of buying in bulk from one supplier - buying a barbag that may not fit your handlebars. Don't be narrrowing your tent choice down to the same place that sells the sleeping bag you want.
There's not a lot of point in saving some money on delivery to get a tent that may not suit you.

Also, this thread is about "What bike" but we're discussing tents and sleeping bags.
Maybe it's time to start the mother of all "I'm getting my self ready for a big tour" type thread where all your posts can go. You'll get more answers then. 

Finally, just about every post I make on your threads finishes with something like "just get out there and do it!"
And this one is no different.
You don't need the perfect tent or sleeping bag or bike to go away for a day or 2.
Get out. Feel the weather on your face. Turn your bike in a direction and follow it. Throw up whatever tent you can get your hands on, crawl into whatever sleeping gear you can find and enjoy a night away from everything! 
Let your mind wander to Dutch canals, Rhine castles, to Austrian Alps, to Italian lakes, to French country lanes, to Spanish dusty ones.

You may not be 100% comfortable (in fact, that's kind of the point!), but it's not going to kill you! 
And you'll learn so much more by doing just a little.


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## Blue Hills (12 Aug 2018)

Great post as always Hobbes.

On Snugpak, they do some higher specced bags than than that one above.And after all they do supply stuff for army types.

I have a softie 9 hawk - synthetic. Supposed to be 3 seasons I think. Haven't got round to camping in it yet (have been using a quality if bulky Mountain Equipment synthetic for 20 years on and off) but have great hopes for it. Some say their temperature ratings are optimistic, but no matter - I have two liners, often sleep using long johns and even have a snugpak thermal hat . I got the Snugpak bag for about £55 in one of their factory sales. It's actually a second but only in a cosmetic way.

IF, and it's an IF as I second your message to the OP to get out there, the OP decides that they like the idea of a free-standing geodesic or semi geodesic tent, I can recommend the Robens Lodge 2.

Tent sale season is approaching of course.


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## GmanUK65 (12 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Personally, I'd go for a better sleeping bag. The specs I've seen for the Sleeper light says 2 season - Spring/Summer. You'll be gone for 3 months, maybe longer, covering a lot of different terrain. It get's cold in the mountains - even in the summertime. Or after a wet day it can be pretty luxurious to warm up inside a warm sleeping bag. You can always cool down in a warm sleeping bag, you can't always warm up in a cold one.
> 
> As for the tent, rather than ask people what they like, how about you tell us what you're looking for, or why you like any of theses particular tents?
> 
> ...


So, are you saying to buy a cheap tent and a 3 season sleeping bag and cooking stuff and get out?

There is one problem with these kinds of forums. There is so much differing points of views that it is hard to choose which is the correct one. Somebody stated earlier to buy a decent priced tent because a cheap one would be no good, hence why I was looking at the £200 mark for the tent that was going to take me on the big journey.

I've got to admit that the advice you have given me makes the most sense. I get paid in just under 2 weeks, so I will buy a cheapish tent, sleeping bag and things to allow me to get out and do it (practice) from the day I get the stuff.

P.S. The buying of bulk was not a pitfall. To get out and do it I would need Panniers. I changed the handlebar bag which I received yesterday and I am expecting the bike and the rest to be delivered tomorrow (13th Aug).


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## Blue Hills (12 Aug 2018)

I'd be pretty confident that after your initial trips when you decide what sort of tent you want you could easily get THE tent for less than £200. Just buy at the right time of year.


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## GmanUK65 (12 Aug 2018)

I think I've found the tent which I am planning on buying, whether temporary for practice or to take on the big trip - The Coleman Phad X2. RRP £180 - 200, I've found it at £109. Thought I'd mention it here to see what you think of it (You're probably pretty sick of me now LOL). Its more money than what I'd pay for a temporary one and the RRP is around the price that I would pay for the big trip but, as you say I've got 2 years to find that one and I may find a better one by then. At £109 I think it is a bargain.


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## Ticktockmy (12 Aug 2018)

Join the Backpackers club facebook page, you will find a lot of good chat on there regarding backpacking equipment, cycle packing uses the same equipment as Backpacking just the differance is panniers rather than a rucsak. I have in the past bought 2 lightwieght tents on ebay, one a vaude hogan which normally would have been over £200.00 and bought of the manufactours for £69.00, the other was a a Terra Nova Laser Competition 1, should have been over £300.00and I paid £75.00. Both tents where brand new, but being a previous years model and style the manafactors were off loading stock. so it well worth checking ebay and see what on offer and ths is coming up the right time of year as next years stock will be arriving in store come November. 
Of course you dont need a tent a 3X3 mtr Tarp is more than adequate , which is mainly what I use during the summer months. https://www.ddhammocks.com/products/tarps.


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## HobbesOnTour (12 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> So, are you saying to buy a cheap tent and a 3 season sleeping bag and cooking stuff and get out?
> 
> There is one problem with these kinds of forums. There is so much differing points of views that it is hard to choose which is the correct one. Somebody stated earlier to buy a decent priced tent because a cheap one would be no good, hence why I was looking at the £200 mark for the tent that was going to take me on the big journey.
> 
> ...



There were a few weeks there that you didn't even need a tent or sleeping bag! 

I'm saying what I would do if I was in your shoes.

There are no correct answers!

I agreed with the advice to spend your money on a good quality tent. It makes sense - *if* you know what type of tent you want. If you get a tent that doesn't suit you, then you've just wasted a lot of money.

All I have been trying to suggest from, I think, my first post, is that it doesn't matter what bike/tent/sleeping bag works for me. You have to know what works for you. 
The best way of figuring that out is to try, in the real world.

Once you know how you want to travel, then making your gear choices will become easy-peasy.

If you can borrow some stuff or pick up what you need cheaply, then I think that's a good way to help you figure out what works for you.

Extreme example
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1mr&page_id=311045&v=1i
Her clothes and camping gear weighs less than 3,5 kg!

or 
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1mr&page_id=404716&v=f4
Cooking, camping & some clothing come to 13 kg! (for 2)

Which style of touring suits you best? 

Have you read any journals on CGOAB? There's so much information contained within there that will help you think beyond what bike? What tent? What sleeping bag? It will help you figure out *how *you want to travel - and I don't mean by bike.

But not as much as actually climbing on a bike and heading off!

You don't have to decide anything now! You have no rush.

In any case, any sleeping bag, any tent will work. All you're trying to figure out is what works best.


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## HobbesOnTour (12 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> I think I've found the tent which I am planning on buying, whether temporary for practice or to take on the big trip - The Coleman Phad X2. RRP £180 - 200, I've found it at £109. Thought I'd mention it here to see what you think of it (You're probably pretty sick of me now LOL). Its more money than what I'd pay for a temporary one and the RRP is around the price that I would pay for the big trip but, as you say I've got 2 years to find that one and I may find a better one by then. At £109 I think it is a bargain.



Personally, I think that's too expensive just for practising or figuring things out.
I know someone who'd say "It's very easy to go broke saving money!".
It's also heavy for what you're getting 3,4 kg.

Good advice to look at backpacker's sites. 
Look for someone local, second hand tent. Get them to pitch it out for you, go through all the things to watch out for. 
Seriously, I wouldn't consider anything over 35-40 quid.


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## GmanUK65 (12 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Personally, I think that's too expensive just for practising or figuring things out.
> I know someone who'd say "It's very easy to go broke saving money!".
> It's also heavy for what you're getting 3,4 kg.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was thinking of the weight. Cannot find much with 2 doors, I suppose second hand market it may have to be


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## HobbesOnTour (12 Aug 2018)

I have a coleman Coastline tent. 3 man 
It's heavy, but strong. A tunnel tent design means it goes up easy all in one, needs to be pegged out and has one door.
It's very roomy inside with zero condensation in the winter.
I brought it to Spain and back. It's done the Rhine, Austria, Italy, and large parts of Belgium, France & Holland.
Because a pole snapped (fibreglass) Amazon took it back(!) and sent me a whole new tent!
The new one is hardly used. 
I love it, but upgraded when I started doing more winter camping. The vestibule is quite exposed for cooking in poor weather.
It's yours (along with an extra set of poles) if you want it - gratis.
All you have to do is to figure out how to have it sent to you. I'm in Holland. (You're paying for the postage!)
Use it as a try-out tent, or use it as your big trip tent. If you get another tent, then pass it on to someone else.


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## Serge (12 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I have a coleman Coastline tent. 3 man
> It's heavy, but strong. A tunnel tent design means it goes up easy all in one, needs to be pegged out and has one door.
> It's very roomy inside with zero condensation in the winter.
> I brought it to Spain and back. It's done the Rhine, Austria, Italy, and large parts of Belgium, France & Holland.
> ...


Damn, you are just too nice! If I ever end up doing a tour through Holland, I'm going to hunt you down and buy you a pint.


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## HobbesOnTour (13 Aug 2018)

Serge said:


> Damn, you are just too nice! If I ever end up doing a tour through Holland, I'm going to hunt you down and buy you a pint.


Ah, you have to build your bike first 

I'm in the middle of a big clear out. Loads of stuff going to good homes. 
I had no idea what I was doing when I bought that tent, but it never let me down. 

If Gman doesn't want it, you're welcome to it. T'would be a great thing for you and the little domino champion - you'd even fit the girlfriend in there too!
Plus, it's give you some wiggle room on the old credit card!


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## GmanUK65 (14 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I have a coleman Coastline tent. 3 man
> It's heavy, but strong. A tunnel tent design means it goes up easy all in one, needs to be pegged out and has one door.
> It's very roomy inside with zero condensation in the winter.
> I brought it to Spain and back. It's done the Rhine, Austria, Italy, and large parts of Belgium, France & Holland.
> ...


Thank you very much mate, greatly appreciated. Find out how much it will cost in postage and I will transfer the money across before you send it. I will give you my address details when I transfer the money. Changing the subject, I received my bike yesterday


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## Serge (14 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Thank you very much mate, greatly appreciated. Find out how much it will cost in postage and I will transfer the money across before you send it. I will give you my address details when I transfer the money. Changing the subject, I received my bike yesterday


Brilliant. Lots of photos please, it's the law.


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## GmanUK65 (14 Aug 2018)

Serge said:


> Brilliant. Lots of photos please, it's the law.


If it's the bike you mean:


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## Serge (14 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> View attachment 424494
> View attachment 424495
> View attachment 424495
> View attachment 424496
> ...


That looks a lovely little beast. I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it.


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## GmanUK65 (14 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I have a coleman Coastline tent. 3 man
> It's heavy, but strong. A tunnel tent design means it goes up easy all in one, needs to be pegged out and has one door.
> It's very roomy inside with zero condensation in the winter.
> I brought it to Spain and back. It's done the Rhine, Austria, Italy, and large parts of Belgium, France & Holland.
> ...


Actually mate it's not the type of tent I would be after. I've checked online and it is a lot heavier than was expecting. If Serge still wants it I think he may make better use of it. Thanks for the offer anyway.


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## GmanUK65 (14 Aug 2018)

Serge said:


> That looks a lovely little beast. I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it.


Me too. I know Dawes have a good reputation so it should


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## HobbesOnTour (15 Aug 2018)

That's a lovely looking machine!

Happy Riding!


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## GmanUK65 (15 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> That's a lovely looking machine!
> 
> Happy Riding!


Cheers, looking forward to it. I think I will have to get fitter to tour. I've rode to work and back for two days with my panniers containing work gear and struggled at times especially on hills. It felt like the bike wanted drag me back down. I've realised with panniers on its harder than I thought but have really enjoyed every ride.

The incentive is there though as to pay for this bike etc I have to commute and use the monthly cost of public transport to pay for it for 18 months. I think I'll be fit enough well before then though. When I start to tour for couple days at a time, I've got a friend who would go with me until I'm used to going solo. He's had some experience touring round Scotland though a lot of it was via bivvy bagging it.


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## HobbesOnTour (16 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Cheers, looking forward to it. I think I will have to get fitter to tour. I've rode to work and back for two days with my panniers containing work gear and struggled at times especially on hills. It felt like the bike wanted drag me back down. I've realised with panniers on its harder than I thought but have really enjoyed every ride.
> 
> The incentive is there though as to pay for this bike etc I have to commute and use the monthly cost of public transport to pay for it for 18 months. I think I'll be fit enough well before then though. When I start to tour for couple days at a time, I've got a friend who would go with me until I'm used to going solo. He's had some experience touring round Scotland though a lot of it was via bivvy bagging it.



Ah, fitness will come, don't worry about that. More important is to be comfortable for a long time in the saddle - that means a decent saddle, in the correct position relative to everything else. A hill might slow you down, a painful ass can stop you!  

If you're used to going out on a roadbike and measuring segments etc, then a change of mindset is in order! Touring is all about smelling the roses (with the occasional dash to shelter when dark clouds get too close  )

If you're going to be commuting make sure you have a good lock or locks! It's be a real PITA if your bike was stolen and you still had to pay it off!
Regular commuting patterns means that your bike is visible to people regularly. If someone is of a mind they have lots of opportunity to figure out how to take it and when to take it.


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## GmanUK65 (16 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Ah, fitness will come, don't worry about that. More important is to be comfortable for a long time in the saddle - that means a decent saddle, in the correct position relative to everything else. A hill might slow you down, a painful ass can stop you!
> 
> If you're used to going out on a roadbike and measuring segments etc, then a change of mindset is in order! Touring is all about smelling the roses (with the occasional dash to shelter when dark clouds get too close  )
> 
> ...


Had no problems with the saddle yet but it's only 7 miles to work so at that distance I won't find out. The seatpost has suspension so that would help too.

Something I feel I do need to change are the pedals. I use SPDs on my road bike so I don't want to get used riding the touring bike without them because I may forget when on road bike but I have found that sometimes I have to keep taking feet off pedals a lot especially when off-road so I am getting one-sided SPD pedals such as Shimano M324s and cycling shoes with grips for flat pedal riding such as O'Neal Flow SPD shoes


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## HobbesOnTour (18 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Had no problems with the saddle yet but it's only 7 miles to work so at that distance I won't find out. The seatpost has suspension so that would help too.
> 
> Something I feel I do need to change are the pedals. I use SPDs on my road bike so I don't want to get used riding the touring bike without them because I may forget when on road bike but I have found that sometimes I have to keep taking feet off pedals a lot especially when off-road so I am getting one-sided SPD pedals such as Shimano M324s and cycling shoes with grips for flat pedal riding such as O'Neal Flow SPD shoes



I know nothing about SPD pedals. I only ride on flats. Currently experimenting with toe-clips to prevent slips in the wet. 

As for the commute, well, now you have the chance to try out lots of different things such as GPS apps on your phone, a little creative route planning with different resources, maybe trying out different surfaces if that's an option. A 7 mile trip to work can easily become a 25 mile trip on the way home with lots of time to test different scenarios and bike handling. 

I've found the positioning of the saddle can be as important as the saddle itself. And that can take a lot of tiny adjustments to get just right.


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## Blue Hills (18 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> I've found the positioning of the saddle can be as important as the saddle itself. And that can take a lot of tiny adjustments to get just right.



Very true. One almost caused me a life changing injury. Moved it and it became very comfortable.


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## GmanUK65 (24 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Personally, I think that's too expensive just for practising or figuring things out.
> I know someone who'd say "It's very easy to go broke saving money!".
> It's also heavy for what you're getting 3,4 kg.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the earlier post and I am missing the good advice you gave me. You don't have to answer to this if you don't want to but just thought I would let you know I have ordered a cheap tent (Vango Soul 200), sleeping bag, sleeping mat and cooking stuff. I should be going for my first camp in about 2 weeks, I've even found the campsite to go to


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## HobbesOnTour (24 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> Sorry about the earlier post and I am missing the good advice you gave me. You don't have to answer to this if you don't want to but just thought I would let you know I have ordered a cheap tent (Vango Soul 200), sleeping bag, sleeping mat and cooking stuff. I should be going for my first camp in about 2 weeks, I've even found the campsite to go to



Well, then, you’re all ready to rock’n’roll then!

Pics are obligatory!

Have a good look at gear lists so that you don’t forget anything essential!
Try to practise pitching the tent at home, or in a park before you go (learned from bitter experience!)
The bike will probably feel weird at first, when loaded. The good thing is that after the weekend, your commute will seem a whole lot easier!

I appreciate your apology. It takes guts to apologise.
I wish you had simply sent a Personal Message rather than criticise me so publicly.
Since I’ve been advocating you get on your bike and get away, and you’re all set to do that now, then there’s not much more for me to add.

There’s something wonderful and primitive, relaxing and free about heading off somewhere different and bringing all that you need with you to survive and be comfortable.

Enjoy!


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## GmanUK65 (24 Aug 2018)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Well, then, you’re all ready to rock’n’roll then!
> 
> Pics are obligatory!
> 
> ...


Yes you're right a private message would have been better, but I did not know how to send one otherwise I would have


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## Lee-M (27 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> My budget would be around £1000 to 1400



I see your budget but you won't be disappointed with the updated Trek 920 . I'm not too sure on the benefits of a steel frame for touring apart from the obvious repair aspects, but when in all honesty is this going to be needed . I have a Ridgeback steel frame and it feels no more or less comfortable than the ali frame of the 920 . The Trek rolls really well, is racked up ready to go and the hydraulic brakes will stop on a six pence.


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## snorri (27 Aug 2018)

betty swollocks said:


> Thorn are touring bike specialists. Suggest you take a gander on the options they offer.


Also Thorn have considerable experience of the Rohloff hub.


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## GmanUK65 (28 Aug 2018)

Lee-M said:


> I see your budget but you won't be disappointed with the updated Trek 920 . I'm not too sure on the benefits of a steel frame for touring apart from the obvious repair aspects, but when in all honesty is this going to be needed . I have a Ridgeback steel frame and it feels no more or less comfortable than the ali frame of the 920 . The Trek rolls really well, is racked up ready to go and the hydraulic brakes will stop on a six pence.


That budget was if I waited for 18 months but I realised I NEEDED one earlier so opted for the £700 Dawes Karakum on 18 month finance.


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## Lee-M (29 Aug 2018)

GmanUK65 said:


> I NEEDED one earlier so opted for the £700 Dawes Karakum



I'm pleased you got your bike . Happy touring .


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## steveindenmark (31 Aug 2018)

Genesis bikes are excellent. I have the Genesis Croix de fer 30. My friend rode with one and completed the TCR last year. I will be riding the Tuscany Road on mine next month.

Its a lovely touring bike. Its comfortable and quick. I usually go for 105 group sets and above. But thd Tiagra has been faultless in the 2 years I have had it. 

I have ridden 6000km on it this year and have not done anything but kept it clean and oiled.


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## Nigelnightmare (1 Sep 2018)

Why did you not consider a secondhand bike?
There are some really good bargains to be had out there.


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## Nigelnightmare (1 Sep 2018)

P.S. The Galaxy does come with disc brakes.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAWES-GA...hash=item4ae2c0a816:m:mwXMoqvQ2LGUiMif9MWUJAg


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## minininjarob (3 Sep 2018)

Dawes have always been up and down with their race and MTB bikes but their touring bikes have always been ace. Maybe not the coolest trends in design or the absolute latest equipment but great purposeful touring machines at a good range of prices. The Karakum is a great bike and will do you proud. I have a friend who has a Robloff equipped Thorn tourer but also a Karakum - he rides the Dawes much more often!!


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## clid61 (3 Sep 2018)

I have a Genesis Croix de Fer , excellect piece of kit and faultless when touring .


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## Rob7 (3 Aug 2019)

Hi, can I ask how your getting on with the karakum? Cheers.


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