# Abuse by fellow cyclists.



## Pat "5mph" (28 Jun 2018)

Today I got a tirade of abuse by a woman cycling on the right hand side of the shared path, because I was riding on the left and would not get out of her way.
Well, one does not know what to do, because they might swerve in my direction if they realize they are on the wrong side, or, like in this case, we might collide if they are convinced to ride correctly.
I normally stop before collision, obviously.
It is mostly tourists on city bikes that ride on the right, but this one was definitely local!
Once I witnessed the exact same: a rider showered another with abuse, this time the shouter was right, it was the other riding on the wrong side.
Another time it was a jogger that got sarky "which way are you going??"
Well, 'ya muppet", you are jogging into me, I'm where I'm supposed to be - did not say that of course 
Again, on the quite narrow riverside path, a bunch of tourists on city bikes take the whole path.
When I politely suggested they keep to the left because there will be fast riders coming from round the blind corner, one says "do you want me to take a license to ride a bike?"
All right mate, get run into then 
With this sunny weather the shared paths are busy, we must have a system ... or not?
Should we just ride slalom like, hoping for the best?
I don't think my cycling skills are up to this


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## snorri (28 Jun 2018)

Aye, it's no' easy Pat .
Maybe we need sprinklers on these paths to keep everyone cool?


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## PK99 (28 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Another time it was a jogger that got sarky "which way are you going??"



That's an interesting one.

On the road with no pavement, walker/jogger goes on the right into oncoming traffic and the traffic moves out around.

I've always worked the same principle on shared cycle/pedestrian paths.


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## Racing roadkill (28 Jun 2018)

It’s happening more and more recently. There are no ‘rabbit proof fences’ to keep ‘em out, you don’t need to take an I.Q. Test before you can ride a bike ( more’s the pity).


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## pjd57 (28 Jun 2018)

The path along the Clyde gets very busy on good days. It's a good route but it can be a challenge.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 Jun 2018)

pjd57 said:


> The path along the Clyde gets very busy on good days. It's a good route but it can be a challenge.


But the worst one is Kelvingrove park, I try to avoid it at peak times.
It's the random dogs more than the pedestrians!


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## Andy in Germany (29 Jun 2018)

I find I get snark from other cyclists in summer. Usually although not exclusively they seem to be riding very expensive bikes in the latest team kit. Generally they are upset about people being 'in the way' or 'not following the rules' which at times is the case,strictly speaking, but they seem to think that people trundling along the cycleway should react like drivers on the Autobahn. It's like they've left the car in the garage, but they're still driving it in their head.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

Nothing will be close to to ideal with shared infrastructure. Any mixed form of transport will create conflict.

The jogger is right to run into the traffic. The cycles are right to stay on the left. At some point they’ll meet. Who gives way? The cycle probably, but what if you add another jogger or cycle to the mix? How about a horse? Chuck in a dog walker who has a dog that’s off the lead. Add a buggy and a toddler and two elderly walkers, one who can’t hear a bell, the other one gets frightened at the sound of a bell. Also, take to account the vegetation has encroached onto the path either side resulting in a reduction in space of 30%...

And taa daa...There you have it ladies and gentlemen: Shoot infrastructure. How dare you use it when I’m using it.

Off to the NL in August just to make me even madder on my return.


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## Drago (29 Jun 2018)

In my experience the Power Rangers are the ones least likely to follow any rules themselves.


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## DCBassman (29 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> In my experience the Power Rangers are the ones least likely to follow any rules themselves.


Too true...


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## DaveReading (29 Jun 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> I find I get snark from other cyclists in summer. Usually although not exclusively they seem to be riding very expensive bikes in the latest team kit.



Not only that, but they invariably don't have a bell ...


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> How do pedestrians manage on crowded pavements? After all, they hardly ever collide. People just need to apply the same principles to shared use paths. Look out for each other and employ a bit of tolerance.



Peds can sidestep in the blink of an eye. Cycles by their very design travel in very straight lines and 5 times quicker. Shared paths are far from ideal. Come with me to the NL in August and see a better solution. Bring a swimming cozzy too.


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## DCBassman (29 Jun 2018)

Reading that post, a vision of swimming routes popped into my head. That would be good on a nice day, and ice-skateable in winter!


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> Bikes CAN indeed go five times faster, but in your scenario they shouldn't be, that's my point.



And I agree, but I was dramatising a less than ideal scenario. As an ideal scenario, where bikes are a viable and sustainable means of mass transport, they need to be 5 times quicker and not mixing with peds or vehicles.


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## Time Waster (29 Jun 2018)

You don't go five times faster on Dutch cycle routes, certainly not town ones. Pedestrians ask around who have priority so quite often ime you have to expect a ped to cross the cycle path. Then the cyclists themselves!

Since it's natural for the natives but isn't for the brit visiting it often becomes the brit who's causing the issues on the cycle paths in Holland. At least in my experience (only one trip so possibly not valid). So this issue the Op has needs to be sorted and understood by cyclists here if we're going to get even close to Such system of bike use. It's about social norms for bike or other modes of transport and motion.


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## mcshroom (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> Walkers and joggers always face the traffic.


IIRC, Walkers and joggers should move to the outside of bends where they are most visible. 



> And if there are likely to be "fast riders coming round the blind corner" then those riders should be ashamed of themselves, and probably belong on the road.


Very true. Shared paths are not designed to be ridden like roads. I don't expect to ride the C2C path near me anything like as quickly as the road alternative.


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## Venod (29 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Well, one does not know what to do, because they might swerve in my direction if they realize they are on the wrong side,



I had this dilemma yesterday on the Solar System Path coming out of York,I was heading South and a couple on a tandem were coming straight towards me (I was on the left) they looked experienced so I thought they would move over but they kept coming, then I thought they might be foreigners and are used to riding on the right, it was like who dares wins, at the last minute they went left and we passed without incident, but the number of people on bikes who don't keep left is astounding.


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## Inertia (29 Jun 2018)

Afnug said:


> I had this dilemma yesterday on the Solar System Path coming out of York,I was heading South and a couple on a tandem were coming straight towards me (I was on the left) they looked experienced so I thought they would move over but they kept coming, then I thought they might be foreigners and are used to riding on the right, it was like who dares wins, at the last minute they went left and we passed without incident, but the number of people on bikes who don't keep left is astounding.


If the path is clearly marked then I’d understand the surprise. If it’s not marked then I don’t assume that people on it have any idea of any rules.

Regardless of the path, if they don’t move to the other side to me, I switch sides before I get close.


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## I like Skol (29 Jun 2018)

I think traditionally (on a road) a walker should walk towards oncoming traffic, i.e on the right in the UK. If you extend this to shared use paths then walkers should walk on their right and approaching cyclists should move over to pass them. @User13710 makes the point about pedestrians not colliding with each other but IME it is not unusual to end up doing the 'To me, to you tango' with a person that can't seem to decide which side they want to pass on and then panic! As many cyclists consider themselves to be pedestrians with wheels rather than wheeled road users it is obvious to see how the confusion arises.
Having said that, a mixed use cycle path is not a road so every potential interaction has to be treated with care and caution. Your speed should be such that when you do inevitably get involved in a tango dance situation you are travelling slowly enough to stop before a collision occurs.
Could it be that our very own @Pat "5mph" was going too fast?


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## screenman (29 Jun 2018)

An observation last night, people mainly British do not make any effort to clear the path for a person being pushed in a wheelchair. My first experience as a passenger in one.


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## DRHysted (29 Jun 2018)

I use the principal that the fastest gives way. If I’m cycling I move for everyone (including other cyclists), if I’m running I move for runners & walkers (actually I remember jumping out of the way of a cyclist who hollered “coming through”), if I’m a walking I move out of the way.

Drat, I’ve just realised that I just get out of the way. 

I like to think of the system that the fastest gives way to the slowest.


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## Milkfloat (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> How do pedestrians manage on crowded pavements? After all, they hardly ever collide. People just need to apply the same principles to shared use paths. Look out for each other and employ a bit of tolerance.





Heltor Chasca said:


> Peds can sidestep in the blink of an eye. Cycles by their very design travel in very straight lines and 5 times quicker. Shared paths are far from ideal. Come with me to the NL in August and see a better solution. Bring a swimming cozzy too.



You are right, in the NL it is a better solution - but it is still a shared space.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> not shared use paths which are not there to expedite anyone's journeys but simply as a means of keeping non-car-users away from cars (to expedite the cars' journeys).



Shared use paths are a pragmatic solution to the problem that most roads & their associated footpaths have been there for many years and are surrounded by buildings and other private property. There's a limited amount of space available, so allowing bikes to use the footway means cyclists don't have to mix it up with the 40 tonners. I use loads of shared paths, and the key is being sensible and keeping your speed down. The lycra-clad cycling equivalents of the boy racers in their blinged-up BMW's should do everybody a favour and stick to the roads, not insist on trying to maintain 20 mph on a surface shared with pedestrians and animals. Pedestrians also need to keep their mobile phones in their pockets and try looking where they're going instead of texting and looking at FB.
Cyclists only comprise a very small percentage of the total mileage volume of road traffic, and they are not generally transporting anything bulky or heavy around either. Unless you want the entire country to grind to a halt because of traffic congestion (like Khan seems to want in London) then the roads have to be designed to facilitate free-flowing traffic. Like it or not the existing road system is what it is, and it is not going to be completely rebuilt at massive public expense anytime soon just to please the 5% or so of the population who may happen to ride a bicycle on a fairly regular basis.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Peds can sidestep in the blink of an eye. Cycles by their very design travel in very straight lines and 5 times quicker. Shared paths are far from ideal. Come with me to the NL in August and see a better solution. Bring a swimming cozzy too.


Even NL has some shared paths. They're just less crap about widening and splitting them into cycleways and footways when they get successful than our incompetent governments are. Ours assume it's a passing fad, the consequences of path congestion encourage people back into driving cars and the government proves itself right. Trebles all round!


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## KneesUp (29 Jun 2018)

I think the general rule is (or should be if one has any common sense) is that the thing with the most momentum (mass x velocity) is the thing that needs to look out for, and give way to everything else, because it's the thing that can do the most damage to the other things, with the least damage to itself.

So, on a road, it is beholden on the motorised traffic to be extra vigilant about cyclists - I believe that if there is any doubt motorised vehicles should give way to cyclists - if a car clips a bike, a worse case is that the car needs a bit of filler and some paint. Worse case for the cyclist is rather more serious.

On a shared use path - as I keep reminding my kid - the cyclist is the heavy, fast thing, so the cyclist is the one who has to take extra care and stop if in doubt. We should ride as we would expect motorists to drive. I see people using shared paths and bridleways in this way less often that I would like.

Horses are a different case - they're a ton of skittish meat on sticks, with a brain the size of walnut and an intestine with the volume of a shed. Everyone should keep well away from them.


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## I like Skol (29 Jun 2018)

screenman said:


> An observation last night, people mainly British do not make any effort to clear the path for a person being pushed in a wheelchair. My first experience as a passenger in one.


That's a tricky one. You don't want to be in a position where you are highlighting the disability of the wheelchair user and discriminating against them as a result. How would they feel if everyones instant reaction was 'Oh look at the poor person in a wheelchair. Everyone stand well back and let them through because they obviously can't manage anything on their own'!
I find it best to treat the situation the same as any other movement interaction, which way am i going, which way are they likely to go, who got there first, who has been waiting, how much room do we each need to pass, etc


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## screenman (29 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> That's a tricky one. You don't want to be in a position where you are highlighting the disability of the wheelchair user and discriminating against them as a result. How would they feel if everyones instant reaction was 'Oh look at the poor person in a wheelchair. Everyone stand well back and let them through because they obviously can't manage anything on their own'!
> I find it best to treat the situation the same as any other movement interaction, which way am i going, which way are they likely to go, who got there first, who has been waiting, how much room do we each need to pass, etc



Common decency I would say, a wheelchair is not as easy object to get moving again once stopped.


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## snorri (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> the roads have to be designed to facilitate free-flowing traffic. Like it or not the existing road system is what it is, and it is not going to be completely rebuilt at massive public expense anytime soon just to please the 5% or so of the population who may happen to ride a bicycle on a fairly regular basis.


...but the traffic is not free flowing, and I don't like it and fail to see why I should accept the status quo. The existing system is inefficient and some expenditure to reduce the motor traffic and provide for the suppressed demand from other transport modes would be money well spent.


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## Alan O (29 Jun 2018)

screenman said:


> An observation last night, people mainly British do not make any effort to clear the path for a person being pushed in a wheelchair. My first experience as a passenger in one.


I've actually had a very different experience where I am. I spent several years caring for my Mum and pushed her many miles in her wheelchair, and I found the majority of people we came across to be very considerate towards us.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Jun 2018)

The most annoying thing I get on a fairly regular basis is when walking to dogs along a shared path near me. The number of times a cyclist (All classes of bike) will whizz past from behind with no warning of approach is unbelievable. Pedestrians appreciate a warning call or a bell in these situations, especially when they are walking a dog which is likely to be startled into a sudden lunge. I have never had any aggro from a pedestrian when I've cycled behind them and given a friendly shout of "Bike behind", or rung the bell on the trike.


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## Drago (29 Jun 2018)

Evwn when jogging i shout "make way for the fat man" when approaching people from behind. It gives them suitable warning, and usually makes them smile with the humour of it...until they see how fat I really am!


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## I like Skol (29 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> Evwn when jogging i shout "make way for the fat man" when approaching people from behind. It gives them suitable warning, and usually makes them smile with the humour of it...until they see how fat I really am!


Yes but, a combination of breathlessness and auto correct gone mad means you actually shout 'Out of my way fat man' to which they reply by planting a fist in your teeth......


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> The most annoying thing I get on a fairly regular basis is when walking to dogs along a shared path near me. The number of times a cyclist (All classes of bike) will whizz past from behind with no warning of approach is unbelievable. Pedestrians appreciate a warning call or a bell in these situations, especially when they are walking a dog which is likely to be startled into a sudden lunge. I have never had any aggro from a pedestrian when I've cycled behind them and given a friendly shout of "Bike behind", or rung the bell on the trike.



I've become much more sensitive to this since becoming a dog owner myself. I think a lot of cyclists just don't realise that dogs jumping up and barking is not aggression but a defensive reaction to being startled because the cyclist has passed too close and/or too fast. I always try to slow down and pass as wide as possible when dogs are about but I don't think I understood quite how slow and wide you need to be to avoid startling some dogs.

Of course, there's an onus on dog owners not to be a nuisance to cyclists as well, and I'm trying train my dog to remain calm regardless of how fast and close cyclists pass. A lot depends on his mood. Some days, he's fine and doesn't react at all, other days he can be more unpredictable. In any case, I'll keep him on a short lead if there are likely to be cyclists about.

Mostly it's just about sharing the space with your fellow humans. And canine companions.

Generally, I take the view that it doesn't hurt to be the one to give way. I'm only interested in enjoying my walk/ride, not in making a point about who has "priority" or whatever.


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## pjd57 (29 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> But the worst one is Kelvingrove park, I try to avoid it at peak times.
> It's the random dogs more than the pedestrians!


Random dog owners !

I don't use the Kelvin path at weekends, it's a nightmare.
They need to do something about the pub at Kelvin bridge. They're totally taking over a path that's been there for as long as I can remember.


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## welsh dragon (29 Jun 2018)

This thread makes me glad that


A) there are no cycle paths or shared paths to cause confusion to anyone. There is 1 in town that is about 2 miles long and very few use it so no unpleasantness there.

B) the few cyclists that are here are very laid back and do not harrass each other, and if there are walkers around everyone gets on with each other.


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## Supersuperleeds (29 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Today I got a tirade of abuse by a woman cycling on the right hand side of the shared path, because I was riding on the left and would not get out of her way.
> Well, one does not know what to do, because they might swerve in my direction if they realize they are on the wrong side, or, like in this case, we might collide if they are convinced to ride correctly.
> I normally stop before collision, obviously.
> It is mostly tourists on city bikes that ride on the right, but this one was definitely local!
> ...



Should have given her a Glasgow kiss.


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## Mugshot (29 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> Evwn when jogging i shout "make way for the fat man" when approaching people from behind. It gives them suitable warning, and usually makes them smile with the humour of it...until they see how fat I really am!


They may already know;


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> Generally, I take the view that it doesn't hurt to be the one to give way. I'm only interested in enjoying my walk/ride, not in making a point about who has "priority" or whatever.


That post was going to get a like until that final sentence implied that anyone cycling to get anywhere on a reasonable schedule is wrong.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

mjr said:


> That post was going to get a like until that final sentence implied that anyone cycling to get anywhere on a reasonable schedule is wrong.



Not sure how you deduced that implication. 

Whether I'm walking, running, cycling or driving, I find that I'm more likely to get to my destination in a timely fashion if I don't get sidetracked by confrontations.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

Smokin Joe said:


> The most annoying thing I get on a fairly regular basis is when walking to dogs along a shared path near me. The number of times a cyclist (All classes of bike) will whizz past from behind with no warning of approach is unbelievable. Pedestrians appreciate a warning call or a bell in these situations.



Warnings only work on alert clued-up people. If the pedestrian ahead is some muppet who has got their earphones wedged in their lugholes and are totally oblivious to everything going on around them, you're wasting your time. Their dog will probably hear you coming before they do.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> Not sure how you deduced that implication.
> 
> Whether I'm walking, running, cycling or driving, I find that I'm more likely to get to my destination in a timely fashion if I don't get sidetracked by confrontations.


Rightly or wrongly, it read to me like an accusation that anyone not giving way in a 50-50 must be trying to make a point, rather than just trying to get to work or home in a reasonable time.


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## HLaB (29 Jun 2018)

On Tuesday I got the mimical type of abuse from a tw@t.

Cycling through Cambridge CC you have to be very aware of the muppets who aren't. On Tuesday I spotted a pavement cyclist about to jump off the kerb into the road straight into me on the road. So I eased off and shouted out in a friendly manner 'On your left Mate'. To which he replied with the exact same in that sarcastic manner mimicking my accent. Maybe the next time I should shout out aggressively 'Watch where you are going Tw@t'


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

mjr said:


> Rightly or wrongly, it read to me like an accusation that anyone not giving way in a 50-50 must be trying to make a point, rather than just trying to get to work or home in a reasonable time.



I was only talking about myself. In the past, I have been in situations where I asserted what I perceived to be my priority, leading to a confrontation. These days, I prefer to give way if I think the other person isn't going to. I find it makes no meaningful difference to my overall journey time. It's about using your experience and intelligence to predict the best outcome in any individual situation. There are no hard and fast rules, but avoiding confrontation (or even collision) is a sound guiding principle in my view.

I'm not a fan of the idea that your desire to get to your destination on time trumps all other considerations.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

HLaB said:


> Maybe the next time I should shout out aggressively 'Watch where you are going Tw@t'


You've just reminded me of last night's case of abuse OF a fellow cyclist. We were heading home along Route 1 about half 9 on a section which I think is 5m wide and a mixed group of walkers and cyclists were spread across the full width heading the same direction but more slowly.

No problem, I'm on the front so I ring a bell from well away and most of the group sorts itself out to the left but one cyclist moves right... at which point, one of the walkers starts shouting various things at him, until the cyclist rides onto the right-hand verge... and as we pass, the shouter pleads with us to "just give him a slap - go on - give him a slap - !*@#ing t#@!". Needless to say, we didn't, rode between the cyclist and his "friends" and left them to it. 

You get all sorts around here and that's why we love it


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> I was only talking about myself. In the past, I have been in situations where I asserted what I perceived to be my priority, leading to a confrontation. These days, I prefer to give way if I think the other person isn't going to. I find it makes no meaningful difference to my overall journey time. It's about using your experience and intelligence to predict the best outcome in any individual situation. There are no hard and fast rules, but avoiding confrontation (or even collision) is a sound guiding principle in my view.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the idea that your desire to get to your destination on time trumps all other considerations.


Me neither and that's not what I'm saying, but there are times where one can legitimately decline to give way without causing a collision or confrontation and doing so is not necessarily trying to make some point about priority or whatever. Your reasons for doing it are your own.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

That's one of those things that always bemuses me - when you encounter a group of pedestrians taking up the width of the path, they will part like the Red Sea, climbing up on banks and verges on both sides of the path or even pressing themselves into hedges, when staying on the path and going single file would OBVIOUSLY be the much more sensible option.

Or is it only obvious to me?


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## welsh dragon (29 Jun 2018)

[QUOTE 5294398, member: 9609"]this is the trick - just live somewhere nice.

I have an added bonus if you choose the correct roads there is virtual no vehicles either. Last night, 32 mile, 3 cars, 4 horses, no cyclists., no walkers, no joggers - apart from the 3 cars it was near perfect.[/QUOTE]


Same here.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> That's one of those things that always bemuses me - when you encounter a group of pedestrians taking up the width of the path, they will part like the Red Sea, climbing up on banks and verges on both sides of the path or even pressing themselves into hedges, when staying on the path and going single file would OBVIOUSLY be the much more sensible option.
> 
> Or is it only obvious to me?


Nah, it seems pretty obvious to me. Don't even need to go single file on 5m width. Just leave a gap and give some indication of having seen other road users.


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## smutchin (29 Jun 2018)

mjr said:


> there are times where one can legitimately decline to give way without causing a collision or confrontation and doing so is not necessarily trying to make some point about priority or whatever



Well, yeah, if not giving way isn't going to cause a collision or confrontation then there's clearly no need to give way.

Like I said, it's about making a judgment on the best course of action for each individual situation as it arises. I've certainly not suggested _always_ giving way.

(It occurs to me we may be talking at cross purposes about the meaning of "give way" - I don't necessarily mean stopping or even slowing down, giving way could simply mean changing your line to avoid a head-on collision.)


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## Threevok (29 Jun 2018)

I find shouting "Strava" usually parts any pedestrians 

Before that, I tried shouting "Endomondo" - but my times suffered from all obstacles I kept hitting


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## glasgowcyclist (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's a limited amount of space available,



The accommodation of safe infrastructure for cycling isn't a physical problem but a political one.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Jun 2018)

My trouble is that I use our local Greenway four times a day on the school run. I recognise all the regulars and they all recognise me. Because none of us are consigned to an anonymous tin can, where you might normally think you can mouth expletives and give them the bird, we have resorted to treating each other cordially. You know: saying ‘good morning’, smoothing their dogs, doing that weird British-weather-thing etc. For our sins, some of us know each other’s names.

Not the outcome I was plumping for. In this day and age I would much prefer a punch up whilst getting it filmed on my mobile for YouTube.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> That's one of those things that always bemuses me - when you encounter a group of pedestrians taking up the width of the path, they will part like the Red Sea, climbing up on banks and verges on both sides of the path or even pressing themselves into hedges, when staying on the path and going single file would OBVIOUSLY be the much more sensible option.
> 
> Or is it only obvious to me?



I like the 'theatrical leap' as you pootle along at walking pace having been in their sight for 200 yards. Then there's stepping off the path and looking from side to side as if they've been magically transported to the central reservation of the M25.
When I stop to let others past I don't feel the need to dive headlong over the bars like Evel Knievel or pull stoppie (or whatever it is the young people call it).
It's more about making a point than sharing and it's rather sad.


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## Darren Jeffrey (29 Jun 2018)

Was out with the family cycling round Loch Katrine recently (shared use path) and an old "gent" came screaming down a hill shouting "on your right, on your right". As a cyclist myself I knew what he meant however people just out for a tootle around the loch had no idea so just froze because someone was shouting and inevitably ended up in his way which then lead to a torrent of abuse for not knowing the rules of cycling. Think its important to know your audience. Not everyone is out pretending to ride the tour and to break strava records


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## Mugshot (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> That's one of those things that always bemuses me - when you encounter a group of pedestrians taking up the width of the path, they will part like the Red Sea, climbing up on banks and verges on both sides of the path or even pressing themselves into hedges, when staying on the path and going single file would OBVIOUSLY be the much more sensible option.
> 
> Or is it only obvious to me?


_Most_ people I encounter seem to be very keen to leap out of the way, it has crossed my mind that this may be due to how other cyclists have come past them, which makes me a little sad.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

Mugshot said:


> . You know, there's a lot of people that feel that cyclists being on the road at all is "dumb and inconsiderate", do you have any sympathy with their point of view?



Cyclists and motorised traffic have co-existed on the roads for roughly the same period of time, since the safety bicycle and motor car are both late 19th century inventions. I take the view that all road users are created equal, and all have exactly the same responsibility to obey the rules of the road, behave themselves, and try to cause each other as little problems as possible. All the time that happens, conflict is minimised - as much as is possible in a congested and overpopulated country.
I'm afraid a lot of the negative attitudes held towards cyclists are at least partly caused by the antics of the rogue minority who think that they can do whatever they like because they haven't got a number plate to be identified from. I take a very hard line against the reckless element, because they are really the ones who generate the anti-cyclist hatred and the responsible law-abiding cyclist then suffers having to ride around in a hostile environment, because they get lumped in with the rogues.


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## Mugshot (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Cyclists and motorised traffic have co-existed on the roads for roughly the same period of time, since the safety bicycle and motor car are both late 19th century inventions. I take the view that all road users are created equal, and all have exactly the same responsibility to obey the rules of the road, behave themselves, and try to cause each other as little problems as possible. All the time that happens, conflict is minimised - as much as is possible in a congested and overpopulated country.
> I'm afraid a lot of the negative attitudes held towards cyclists are at least partly caused by the antics of the rogue minority who think that they can do whatever they like because they haven't got a number plate to be identified from. I take a very hard line against the reckless element, because they are really the ones who generate the anti-cyclist hatred and the responsible law-abiding cyclist then suffers having to ride around in a hostile environment, because they get lumped in with the rogues.


I'll take that as a yes then. Wishing death or serious injury on someone because they did something that you don't approve of is reprehensible, the system has also stopped dishing out capital or corporal punishment for such henious crimes as RLJing. Hardline or not your views are neither reasonable nor appropriate.
You may also want to consider that you wishing somebody is killed or maimed by a motor vehicle is not the same thing as fate dealing with them as you suggested in your previous post.


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## Venod (29 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> Or is it only obvious to me?



No I have noticed the over reaction of walkers, also, what I don't like are the ones who will part, one each side leaving a minimum gap for me to negotiate as if they are testing my riding skills.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I take the view that all road users are created equal, and all have exactly the same responsibility to obey the rules of the road, behave themselves, and try to cause each other as little problems as possible.


Whereas I take the view that the greater responsibility is on those with a greater potential to cause death, doom and destruction. How on Earth could you possibly try to justify the toddler walking to playgroup who's just slipped out of daddy's hand to pick up their dropped toy having the same responsibility to obey the rules of the road as an HGV driver?



SkipdiverJohn said:


> All the time that happens, conflict is minimised - as much as is possible in a congested and overpopulated country.


That sounds like someone who's not seen the roads lately!



SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm afraid a lot of the negative attitudes held towards cyclists are at least partly caused by the antics of the rogue minority who think that they can do whatever they like because they haven't got a number plate to be identified from


I very much doubt there's enough doing it for that reason to cause anything. Anyway, it's nice to see a member of the Stockholm Syndrome Cycling Club getting onto the wider internet(!)


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## Pat "5mph" (29 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Could it be that our very own @Pat "5mph" was going too fast?


Garmin said 8mph.
After a shift in this heat I cannot go any faster!



HLaB said:


> So I eased off and shouted out in a friendly manner 'On your left Mate'. To which he replied with the exact same in that sarcastic manner mimicking my accent. Maybe the next time I should shout out aggressively 'Watch where you are going Tw@t'


Ach, no worth it, I never answer to insults, might give them _the look,_ though.


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Jun 2018)

Mugshot said:


> I'll take that as a yes then.



Completely wrong, and nowhere have I ever said that cyclists/horses/farmers tractors etc are too slow and get in everyone's way etc etc.. I have no wish to ban any particular group of people from using the roads just because of what means of transport they use, I just think it's reasonable that they should all use the roads in a responsible & considerate manner.
I do not try to justify the bad behaviour of some motorists, and I do not make a special case to try to excuse badly behaved cyclists either - unlike some who apply double standards when it comes to bad cyclists.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (29 Jun 2018)

User46386 said:


> Get one of those Air Horns, they would move then sharpish enough.
> Did you ring your bell a few times, I find this is good on paths and gets pedestrians shifting to the side nicely.



I rode with a guy who used an air horn while we chatted for 10 minutes.
10 minutes was long enough for me to decide to feign a problem and wish him well on his travels.
It's a guaranteed means of creating resentment.


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## Hitchington (29 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> Walkers and joggers always face the traffic. And if there are likely to be "fast riders coming round the blind corner" then those riders should be ashamed of themselves, and probably belong on the road.


There are too many fast riders on the Q1 route, especially through Folkstone Gardens (a park with the Q! route taking a shared path with some blind bends) in Deptford. They definitely should be going on the road and not terrorising the peds on their way to school/work and us bicyclists who slow down on the shared path and when approaching blind corners. I can't begin to tell you the amount of near misses I've had from twats determined to overtake coming the opposite direction on a narrow shared path which is just about wide enough to accommodate 2 cycles abreast.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

[QUOTE 5294793, member: 9609"]where on earth do you get that from, he said nothing of the sort. stop making stuff up about people[/QUOTE]
I think the moderators have been busy here because I can't see some messages that I remember.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Actually in Berlin, as a pedestrian, I had a couple of close shaves with cyclists. This was mainly down to me being a stupid foreigner (a) probably not looking in the right direction and (b) not being used to the existence of cycle lanes that are, you know, lanes for cycles. I'm sure I'd have got used to it had I been there a bit longer.


With that sort of attitude, you're going to fail the New British Citizenship Exam, you know? The correct answer in any near-miss with a cyclist is always "the cyclist is to blame because they were cycling there"(!)


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## boydj (29 Jun 2018)

I regularly use the local, very good Sustrans path going down to Lochwinnoch. It's popular with all sorts of cyclists, dog walkers and people just out for a stroll. A few times I've had people cycling towards me on their right and I've gestured to them to move. The ones that didn't move, I simply stopped and made them cycle round me while reminding them that we drive/cycle on the left in the UK. 

What amuses me is how often, coming up behind a group of pedestrians, they will split up with the ones on the left moving right and the ones on the right moving left, by which time you're virtually at a standstill.


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## User6179 (29 Jun 2018)

DarrenJ said:


> Was out with the family cycling round Loch Katrine recently (shared use path) and an old "gent" came screaming down a hill shouting "on your right, on your right". As a cyclist myself I knew what he meant however people just out for a tootle around the loch had no idea so just froze because someone was shouting and inevitably ended up in his way which then lead to a torrent of abuse for not knowing the rules of cycling. Think its important to know your audience. Not everyone is out pretending to ride the tour and to break strava records



Round Loch Katrine is a road, its not a shared use path.


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## mjr (29 Jun 2018)

Eddy said:


> Round Loch Katrine is a road, its not a shared use path.


Still have to share it, though!


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## User6179 (29 Jun 2018)

mjr said:


> Still have to share it, though!



Yes, it is for walkers, joggers, cyclists, cars, I am just pointing out you might meet a car on it so don't treat it like a shared path.


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## Slick (29 Jun 2018)

Eddy said:


> Yes, it is for walkers, joggers, cyclists, cars, I am just pointing out you might meet a car on it so don't treat it like a shared path.


It's one of my favourite runs although most seem to think I'm doing it the wrong way as I leave from Callander but can't bring myself to tackle the dukes pass right away so I go clockwise, and your right, you can meet a few cars on that road.


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## Slick (29 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Today I got a tirade of abuse by a woman cycling on the right hand side of the shared path, because I was riding on the left and would not get out of her way.
> Well, one does not know what to do, because they might swerve in my direction if they realize they are on the wrong side, or, like in this case, we might collide if they are convinced to ride correctly.
> I normally stop before collision, obviously.
> It is mostly tourists on city bikes that ride on the right, but this one was definitely local!
> ...


Sounds like an interesting day Pat, first a tall dark handsome stranger then a boot. 

I've done that run a few times in the sun and it does get congested. Try not to worry too much, we'll be back to rain in a week and you will gave it all to yourself again.


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## User6179 (29 Jun 2018)

Slick said:


> It's one of my favourite runs although most seem to think I'm doing it the wrong way as I leave from Callander but can't bring myself to tackle the dukes pass right away so I go clockwise, and your right, you can meet a few cars on that road.



Either way is good but I prefer counter clockwise and just miss out the dukes completely


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## Slick (29 Jun 2018)

Eddy said:


> Either way is good but I prefer counter clockwise and just miss out the dukes completely


Haha that's cheating.


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## User6179 (29 Jun 2018)

Slick said:


> Haha that's cheating.



It is 98 miles though from the house and I need to zigzag through Stirling to get it up to the ton.


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## Slick (29 Jun 2018)

Eddy said:


> It is 98 miles though from the house and I need to zigzag through Stirling to get it up to the ton.


Oh right, that's different. My brother lives in Kippen and is always wanting to leave from there, maybe I'll give it a go this year.


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## Venod (29 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> After a shift in this heat I cannot go any faste



A quick scan through, and I read that without a f in shift.


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## Mr Celine (29 Jun 2018)

When faced with an oncoming cyclist on the wrong side of the road say loudly, in a variety of appalling accents -
Conduisez a gauche
Links Fahren
Tenere la sinestre
Y'all ride on the left.

Guaranteed they'll give you a wide berth.


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## snorri (29 Jun 2018)

Mr Celine said:


> When faced with an oncoming cyclist on the wrong side of the road say loudly, in a variety of appalling accents -


Why shout? You can pick up signs with that message for the front of your bike from your nearest ferry terminal.


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## theclaud (30 Jun 2018)

Surely it's all about the nature of the space? I get mildly irritated by cyclists on the seafront path (especially if they appear to be experienced bike handlers) approaching me on the 'wrong' side, but it happens with such frequency that it must be a consequence of the path itself, and of the kind of space its users perceive themselves to be in. I think it's good to encourage people to use that space in a less disciplined way. I tend towards the vehicular on a bike, and am usually on the path as part of a commute, so I behave as if on a small road, but others may not experience the space as a road at all. I made a conscious decision to chill out about it, and when the path is very busy I either resign myself to erratic pedestrian and cyclist behaviour or go on the road. The discipline required on the road is only necessary because of the danger - the opposite scenario is the one @User13710 describes, where slow-moving people simply dodge one another in the course of their everyday business. We need to make roads (in places where people need or want to be) more like linear parks, and not the other way round, so we should welcome the need to switch out of our default way of making progress.


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## fatjel (30 Jun 2018)

Theres a shared path between Burry Port and Llanelli I use now and then which is plenty wide enough for all so it can be done

As to rogue cyclist making the hating motorists hate ,

They hate me just as often when I'm driving my car within the speed limit


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## theclaud (30 Jun 2018)

fatjel said:


> *Theres a shared path between Burry Port and Llanelli* I use now and then which is plenty wide enough for all so it can be done
> 
> As to rogue cyclist making the hating motorists hate ,
> 
> They hate me just as often when I'm driving my car within the speed limit


I love that path, which isn't so much a path at all but a spacious road through a linear park, on which cars aren't allowed but pedestrians and cyclists can do whatever they like. Pedestrians wander all over it, slow cyclists bimble, and fast cyclists can hammer along at a gratifying pace simply by taking a bit of care and following a few self-imposed rules. Win-win.


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## mjr (30 Jun 2018)

snorri said:


> Why shout? You can pick up signs with that message for the front of your bike from your nearest ferry terminal.


Sadly not. They speak English in West Lynn too  or something approximating it


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