# Lowering the driver saddle on a tandem



## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

Evening all.

I used to be a very regular poster here back in the early days but I drifted away as life changed. However, tonight I have a bike problem and I thought that if anyone could help, they'd probably be here. So hi again!

During Lockdown, we bought a tandem on eBay. The goal is for me to be the driver and my strong but lethal-on-roads son would be the stoker until he grew older. The tandem was unseen, obvs, but the vendor sent me the frame size and I was fairly confident it would fit me. Today, we finally picked it up. It's absolutely beautiful and we love it. However...what I hadn't counted on (being new to tandems) was that the driver saddle is much higher than a normal saddle because of the stem-thing that attaches the stoker handlebars. (That's such a bad description, I'll attach a photo). I can't move the saddle down to a level where I can safely sit on it. 

Oh tandem experts - is there anything we can do? Is there another way of attaching stoker handlebars that allows me to lower the driver saddle enough that my short legs will fit? PLEASE say yes, I'd be gutted to have to rehome this beauty!


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## classic33 (24 Jun 2020)

Kiddie cranks?

Or after checking the picture, could you mount the stokers handlebars on the top tube. If not, what about a smaller clamp on the seatpost


Welcome back


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## Alex H (24 Jun 2020)

If you don't mind registering on the site, I would ask here https://www.tandem-club.org.uk/. There are many knowledgeable people who should be able to help


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## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

classic33 said:


> Kiddie cranks?
> 
> Or after checking the picture, could you mount the stokers handlebars on the top tube. If not, what about a smaller clamp on the seatpost
> 
> ...



Thank you, it's lovely to be back! I would LOVE to mount the stoker's handlebars on the top tube - is that an option? What would I buy? What's the technical term for the component? 

Sorry...this is all new.


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## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

Alex H said:


> If you don't mind registering on the site, I would ask here https://www.tandem-club.org.uk/. There are many knowledgeable people who should be able to help



Thank you, I'll do so now.


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## Sharky (24 Jun 2020)

How much do you need to lower the saddle by?

The one on mine seems smaller than yours - about 27mm


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## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

That already looks better. I need to lower the saddle by a good inch (ideally two, I have VERY short legs) but this is much smaller than the one we have. 

I'm encouraged that we might be able to fix this, I was a little despairing beforehand.


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## Milkfloat (24 Jun 2020)

Both the seat clamp and the handle bar stem seem very bulky, but I am not sure 2 inches would be possible Without losing them stem completely.


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## Sharky (24 Jun 2020)

Another option - what length are your cranks?
Probably 170mm? If they are solid cranks, you can get them re-drilled to make them 150mm. This will allow you to have a higher saddle.

Don't be worried by shorter cranks, after a very short while, you don't notice the difference. All my bikes are now 150 or 145mm cranks, except for the tandem.

I'm guessing they are tandem cranks, with the chainring on the left? So options to buy shorter cranks may be limited. If they are normal cranks, have a look at Sinz expert square taper cranks. They do a huge range of crank lengths .


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## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

Sharky said:


> Another option - what length are your cranks?
> Probably 170mm? If they are solid cranks, you can get them re-drilled to make them 150mm. This will allow you to have a higher saddle.
> 
> Don't be worried by shorter cranks, after a very short while, you don't notice the difference. All my bikes are now 150 or 145mm cranks, except for the tandem.
> ...



Thank you. I actually don't know my crank lengths but I shall get measuring tomorrow. Appreciate your suggestions very much.l


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## fossyant (24 Jun 2020)

Blimey, welcome back..


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## Sharky (24 Jun 2020)

Yet one more possibility. If you can get a simple seat post without an integrated clamp. On sjs cycles there is one for £3.99, but need to check diameters. Then using a separate clamp you might achieve a lower saddle. You can also fit the saddle clamp upside down to lower it even further.


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## Cathryn (24 Jun 2020)

fossyant said:


> Blimey, welcome back..



Hahaha...it's been a while  Thank you x


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## raleighnut (24 Jun 2020)

How about something with a much 'shorter' clamp area like this.




That might allow you to lower the saddle a bit.


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## Ian H (24 Jun 2020)

As above, that seems like a very bulky stoker stem. Also the double clamp for the seat-post seems over the top.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

Sharky said:


> Yet one more possibility. If you can get a simple seat post without an integrated clamp. On sjs cycles there is one for £3.99, but need to check diameters. Then using a separate clamp you might achieve a lower saddle. You can also fit the saddle clamp upside down to lower it even further.



Thank you. I shall investigate


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

Ian H said:


> As above, that seems like a very bulky stoker stem. Also the double clamp for the seat-post seems over the top.



I thought it looked particularly bulky too.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

raleighnut said:


> How about something with a much 'shorter' clamp area like this.
> 
> View attachment 532250
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'll investigate today.


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## roubaixtuesday (25 Jun 2020)

Good luck with the very good suggestions above, is that a Burley? Top notch machines.

The obvious alternative to those suggestions is to swap seats. How old is your son? He might take to the responsibility better than you think.

A way to ease this could be to fit a drag brake from the stokers bars so you have a veto on top speed. I'd guess a Burley would come with the requisite hub and frame fixings.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> Good luck with the very good suggestions above, is that a Burley? Top notch machines.
> 
> The obvious alternative to those suggestions is to swap seats. How old is your son? He might take to the responsibility better than you think.
> 
> A way to ease this could be to fit a drag brake from the stokers bars so you have a veto on top speed. I'd guess a Burley would come with the requisite hub and frame fixings.



Thank you - it's a Burley Rock n Roll, straight from Eugene, Oregon. The vendors shipped it back when they moved back from the US. It's a beautiful bike, I'm thrilled with it which is why I'm determined to sort it. 

I love my son but the thought of him steering on roads with me behind him chills me to the bone. He's 10. He's awesome but I want to live!


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

I took some better photos today and I've contacted a tandem specialist for some advice. Thought you helpful people might like some extra photos. Basically, I need to drop the saddle one inch to make it viable. One little inch. We can do that, can't we! (My husband keeps muttering darkly that I bought the wrong sized bike...implying that he told me so...so I'm determined to make this work).

1) The driver's seat post with the handlebars and clamp.
2) The giant handlebar clamp. It's 2.5 inches from top to bottom. There HAS to be a smaller one out there.


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## roubaixtuesday (25 Jun 2020)

Cathryn said:


> Thank you - it's a Burley Rock n Roll, straight from Eugene, Oregon. The vendors shipped it back when they moved back from the US. It's a beautiful bike, I'm thrilled with it which is why I'm determined to sort it.
> 
> I love my son but the thought of him steering on roads with me behind him chills me to the bone. He's 10. He's awesome but I want to live!



Ah, ok, yes, 10 is just a *little* young to pilot...


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## twentysix by twentyfive (25 Jun 2020)

Cathryn said:


> I took some better photos today and I've contacted a tandem specialist for some advice. Thought you helpful people might like some extra photos. Basically, I need to drop the saddle one inch to make it viable. One little inch. We can do that, can't we! (My husband keeps muttering darkly that I bought the wrong sized bike...implying that he told me so...so I'm determined to make this work).
> 
> 1) The driver's seat post with the handlebars and clamp.
> 2) The giant handlebar clamp. It's 2.5 inches from top to bottom. There HAS to be a smaller one out there.


Blimey - that handlebar clamp looks agricultural in design. I'm no tandem person but I feel sure there are smaller ones out there. Never seen anything like that pic.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> I hope your specialist can help you out.
> 
> The existing stem does look a bit over-engineered. If you look at this https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems/nitto-tandem-stoker-stem-aa/ (I've no idea if it's the right size, it's just the first one I found) and eyeball the clamp and compare the rise on the clamp to the handlebar diameter they are roughly the same. The bars are 25.4mm , so the rise is about one inch. Compared with your 2.5 inch clamp that saves you the inch you need, and half an inch to spare. So fingers crossed, there may well be a suitable part out there for you.



That does look good. Thanks, I'll look into it.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Blimey - that handlebar clamp looks agricultural in design. I'm no tandem person but I feel sure there are smaller ones out there. Never seen anything like that pic.



It's quite 'robust' isn't it.


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## Cathryn (25 Jun 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> And the seat post clamp underneath it is also a bit of a beast. Could you save a few mm there? Is it, indeed even necessary with that handlebar monster in place. (Note these thoughts are coming out of my head ... this is not a good sign. Probably all rubbish)



But all your thoughts are encouraging me that this can be done


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## raleighnut (25 Jun 2020)

Even a saddle with a smaller rail to top height would help.


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## classic33 (25 Jun 2020)

How much of the current clamp is on the curve of the seat post. There's a fair old curve at the top.


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## crossfire (27 Jun 2020)

I know nothing about tandems, closest I have got is riding in a sidecar attached to the one my parents had _ and that was 70 years ago, but the thought that struck me was, is it possible to combine the two ( seat post clamp and handlebar mount clamp ), thereby lowering as much as possible. Trouble is finding a handlebar clamp big enough to fit the seat post stem. Of course I may possibly be talking a load of carp - not unusual


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## Cathryn (27 Jun 2020)

crossfire said:


> I know nothing about tandems, closest I have got is riding in a sidecar attached to the one my parents had _ and that was 70 years ago, but the thought that struck me was, is it possible to combine the two ( seat post clamp and handlebar mount clamp ), thereby lowering as much as possible. Trouble is finding a handlebar clamp big enough to fit the seat post stem. Of course I may possibly be talking a load of carp - not unusual



I think there's a way too. I'm taking it to my Dad today - he's an engineering genius with power tools so I'm sure he'll fix it. Or my husband cycles with a bike shop owner and we think he'll have ideas too. I'm not giving up. I shall post the solution when we find it.


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## midlife (27 Jun 2020)

My dad would have taken a junior hacksaw to it..... One of his fave tools lol


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## classic33 (27 Jun 2020)

With the current clamp, 
It's possible to increase the inner diameter on the lower half, to enable it to fit over the seat tube.

Problem arises with trying to secure the seat post by clamping from the front. Slot/cutout is at the rear.


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## Cathryn (28 Jun 2020)

classic33 said:


> With the current clamp,
> It's possible to increase the inner diameter on the lower half, to enable it to fit over the seat tube.
> 
> Problem arises with trying to secure the seat post by clamping from the front. Slot/cutout is at the rear.



You think we could make the clamp wide enough to fit over the seat tube?


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## classic33 (28 Jun 2020)

Cathryn said:


> You think we could make the clamp wide enough to fit over the seat tube?


From just looking at, yes. However you're then clamping the seat tube from the front.


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## srw (28 Jun 2020)

Have a chat either to JD Tandems in Yorkshire or to SJS in Somerset. 

Personally I wouldn't do without some sort of clamp on a seat post, but if it's steel I'm surprised it's not integrated into the frame. There are many stoker stems available, including adjustable ones. For a growing lad adjustment might make sense. 

I think you're just discovering why the taller rider normally captains a tandem!


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## Cathryn (29 Jun 2020)

srw said:


> Have a chat either to JD Tandems in Yorkshire or to SJS in Somerset.



Superb advice - I chatted to the Yorkshire guys last week and have contacted SJS today. We're much closer to SJS so that's more feasible.


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## Mike Ayling (2 Jul 2020)

Cathryn said:


> Superb advice - I chatted to the Yorkshire guys last week and have contacted SJS today. We're much closer to SJS so that's more feasible.


Hi Cathryn

On our Thorn tandem the clamp on the seat post is 30 mm deep, much smaller than your 2 and 1/2 inches or about 62mm so half the size of yours.
So I suggest that you remove the seat post with the clamp and the stokers bars and take the whole assembly with you on your visit to SJS Cycles.
Make sure that you have plenty of money on your credit card as the Thorn kit is not cheap!

Before starting to ride explain to your son that the handlebars are only there to rest his hands, you do all the steering and he just sits and pedals.

Mike


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## Cathryn (2 Jul 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Hi Cathryn
> 
> On our Thorn tandem the clamp on the seat post is 30 mm deep, much smaller than your 2 and 1/2 inches or about 62mm so half the size of yours.
> So I suggest that you remove the seat post with the clamp and the stokers bars and take the whole assembly with you on your visit to SJS Cycles.
> ...



Hi Mike. Thank you for the info - that clamp sounds really useful and gives me hope. We're actually in email contact with SJS, they've been really helpful and sent me a link to a clamp, it might be that one! I would LOVE to go and visit but I'm not sure they're welcoming customers at the moment, which is sad but useful for my bank balance.


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## Mike Ayling (3 Jul 2020)

Cathryn said:


> Hi Mike. Thank you for the info - that clamp sounds really useful and gives me hope. We're actually in email contact with SJS, they've been really helpful and sent me a link to a clamp, it might be that one! I would LOVE to go and visit but I'm not sure they're welcoming customers at the moment, which is sad but useful for my bank balance.


Hi Cathryn
I read somewhere that even before Choina Virus SJS preferred you to make an appointment rather than just walking in.
How far are you allowed to travel atm and how far are you in Wiltshire from SJS?
Anyway I am sure that SJS will have a solution for you.
Mike


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## DaveJ (3 Jul 2020)

This kind of thing?


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## Cathryn (7 Jul 2020)

Mike Ayling said:


> Hi Cathryn
> I read somewhere that even before Choina Virus SJS preferred you to make an appointment rather than just walking in.
> How far are you allowed to travel atm and how far are you in Wiltshire from SJS?
> Anyway I am sure that SJS will have a solution for you.
> Mike



I think I will need an appt, we're about an hour away I think. But my dad is working on some metalwork solution so we'll see. I'll post pics when we've solved it.


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## Cathryn (7 Jul 2020)

DaveJ said:


> This kind of thing?



I think so!!!!


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## classic33 (23 Jul 2020)

If you're still looking for a means, there's these
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/loads-of-cycling-stuff-and-parts-for-sale.264839/


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## barr313 (5 Aug 2020)

My uswb Claud Butler has the original fitting. The steerers seat post is an angled "T" On the front of the cross bar of the "T" the steerers saddle is mounted and on the rear part of the "T" is the fitting for the stokers handle bars - This is two circular tubes joined together ( looks a bit like a figure 8 - one fits the "T" of the tube and the other takes the handlebars.


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## barr313 (5 Aug 2020)

Just about make out the double mounting for the stokers handlebars. The stem would normally be fitted turned 180 degrees.


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## JDR (27 Aug 2020)

The pilot's bottom braket is usually mounted in an 'eccentric' that can be roated - to take the slack out of the front chain. If this is neither at the extreme front or extreme rear, make sure that the actual bottom bracket is in the upper, not lower part of the circle. If it is in the lower part, rotate it - moving it back towards the rear wheel to do this - to the uppe part. THis could bring the pedals up to half an inch closer to the pilot saddle.

There are some nuts underneath to loosen first, to let you do this - and you need a rod or maybe two, depending, to rotate it. Can be a bit stiff

Pilot, not driver - and not captain. Pilots guide but they are not in control. Unhappy stokers stop riding tandems.


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## Mike Ayling (6 Nov 2020)

Dogtrousers said:


> Did you ever sort this out?


I think that she got the boy a MTB recently so maybe it is now moot.


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## Aleman (27 Nov 2020)

Late to the thread but ...

Having bought a new tandem to get around this exact same issue ... Thorn Raven Twin from SJSC  ... One though I was having, which depends on the length and diameter of the top tube, would be to use an appropriate sized handlebar stem on the top tube.


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## MartynA10 (30 Nov 2020)

Aleman said:


> Late to the thread but ...
> 
> Having bought a new tandem to get around this exact same issue ... Thorn Raven Twin from SJSC  ... One though I was having, which depends on the length and diameter of the top tube, would be to use an appropriate sized handlebar stem on the top tube.


Good quality cycle frame tubing is a lot thinner walled than seat posts so it could well be damaged before the the clamp is tight enough to take the torque from the stoker bars. The other problem is that the front top tube would be uncomfortably high when mounting, stopped at junctions and so on. The route you took yourselves does seem to be the only really satisfactory one.

If the problem is less extreme than the OP had, the option of using a horizontal clamp-on tube, then a near vertical stem from that might help. This seems to be the favoured set up used on new tandems at the moment - see J D Cycles and Thorn current bikes.


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## Aleman (1 Dec 2020)

You make a good point @MartynA10. I have both of the Thorn Options for adjustable Stoker Stems, and even the 28 degree option was a bit too tall to be perfectly comfortable for my knees 

I could look at the Nitto option though, but even at 35mm it may still be to tall compared to the original. ... Serves me right for buying the biggest frame under the instructions of my "stoker" who has "Long Legs". *She* just "forgot" to take into account that mine are shorter than average


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## Cathryn (3 Dec 2020)

I saw the solution my dad is working on yesterday. It looks good, I’m hopeful! I’ve asked him to fix it as my Christmas present!! He is very clever, my old dad, and has a LOT of tools!!


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## Aleman (4 Dec 2020)

Cathryn said:


> I saw the solution my dad is working on yesterday. It looks good, I’m hopeful!


Looking forward to seeing it


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## Cathryn (4 Dec 2020)

Aleman said:


> Looking forward to seeing it


I lack the technical know-how to describe it but will post pictures after Santa delivers!!


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## FaustoCoppi (2 Jan 2021)

It looks to me that the seat post clamp is fairly large and the saddle rails are hard up against the extension clamp, from your picture it’s difficult to see how you can drop the seat post in any further into the frame?


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## classic33 (11 Jan 2021)

Cathryn said:


> I lack the technical know-how to describe it but will post pictures after Santa delivers!!


Did Santa only deliver your bike!


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## Cathryn (11 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> Did Santa only deliver your bike!


Hi! Yes...but it’s been too icy to test it out! As soon as the roads thaw out, we will give it a go!


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