# Running



## johnny (4 Aug 2008)

I am starting to think about training for a triathlon so I've started running again after a break of about 4 years (i used to run fairly regularly but nothing amazing just to keep fit). I thought running again would be pretty easy as my cardio should be good from all the cycling and stuff but I am finding that my legs are killing me. Is it a completely new set of muscles that I am working now? I also find that my heart rate is pretty much at 90% all the time too.... 

Any suggestions?


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## shimano (4 Aug 2008)

running muscles and cycling muscles are two different sets. Just read Menzies Cambell's autobiog (yes I know I'm a sad git) he was a champion runner in his day but while at uni he wouldn't ride a bike to get around like his mates as it would build up the 'wrong' muscles. Being able to do a triathlon means you're up there with superman but just can't fly.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (4 Aug 2008)

Build it up slowly. Remember that it isn't the work that develops your running muscles, it is the rest & recovery after you have done the work. Alternate hard sessions and easy, slow sessions. To start off with, you may need to alternate walking and running in a session.

If you are looking to run a 10K as part of your triathlon, there are some good training plans available free, for example
http://www.runglasgow.org/senior/prepare/prepare.php

There are a number of web resources for triathlon too.

Finally, your heart rate on the run is going to be higher than for the same perceived effort when riding a bike.


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## johnny (5 Aug 2008)

Thanks for the replies and thanks for the link Stig. I've printed a copy so I have something to follow. One final question, if cycling and running use different muscle groups how should I stagger the training between them. Is it fine to run on cycling rest days and vice versa?


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## johnny (5 Aug 2008)

Oh and off to look at tri web sites now, another whole new world to explore.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (5 Aug 2008)

There are probably people better qualified than me to answer that, but I use my bike to commute, throw in longer rides on the way home and on the weekend. 

I sometimes alternate long ride / long run on the weekend, but try to do bike and run when possible to get practice at using one muscle group, then the next, and take a rest day after.


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## Baggy (5 Aug 2008)

In a bid to become slightly less fat I'm also going to give running another go after a 5 year layoff. Am starting _very_ gently, had to give up before as my foot arch was collapsing and in spite of trying orthotics the problem came back at the 5k level. I've now got new orthotics so am giving things a go. 

Went out on Sunday and did a 25 minute run/walk, not to bad. Monday morning, got up, walked downstairs...Oh.My.God!

I could certainly feel it in my inner quads (VMO? above the knee) and front of my thighs, it was an eye opener as to just how different a set of muscles you do use...


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## RedBike (6 Aug 2008)

I've just started running too. Yesterday was my first run / walk session. 

Despite taking it very easy my knees were aching while I was cycling into work this morning.


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## Blonde (6 Aug 2008)

johnny said:


> .. my cardio should be good from all the cycling and stuff but I am finding that my legs are killing me.



Snap! I started running again a few weeks ago and whilst I found the breathing/H/R etc all fine and it all went surprisingly well, my legs were really stiff the next day - and my back, and shoulders, and neck... You still use the quads, glutes and hamstrings but they are working in a different way to on the bike. Professional athletes often do make the transition to cycling from other sports; Some of them from skiing, rowing, running and football where you use the same muscle groups, even though in different ways. You'll feel your quads more running uphill and hamstrings running down hill. The core abdominal muscles need to be engaged for back support when running and the shoulders and neck hold up the full weight of the arms, whereas in cycling the upper body and to some extent the trunk are supported by the bike (by the handlebar and saddle). Although you are suppoed to use your abdominals for supporting your back in cycling, many people don't, slumping over and using the handlebar to take the weight, but can suffer back ache as a result. Regarding H/R: It is very likely that your max H/R and therefore your H/R training zones are different for running. It is generally aknowledged (there are some research findings on PP Online, plus other training websites) that HR zones for the same person tend to be sports specific, so don't be too alarmed.


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## johnny (8 Aug 2008)

On my third day of running now, still sticking to only thirty minutes and legs starting to settle down (stairs don't scare me the next day). But my hamstrings have become very tight!


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## RedBike (8 Aug 2008)

Just about to start my second week. It's a bit embarrasing having to walk every few minutes but my legs just won't cope with 20mins continuous running. My knees ache as it is!

Two reps of:
Jog 200 yards (or 90 seconds) 
Walk 200 yards (or 90 seconds) 
Jog 400 yards (or 3 minutes) 
Walk 400 yards (or three minutes)


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## Baggy (8 Aug 2008)

Johnny, I can't yet imagine doing 30 minutes without investing in a Stannah Stairlift! 



RedBike said:


> Just about to start my second week. It's a bit embarrasing having to walk every few minutes


I just try to wait until there's nobody around, but it doesn't really work as I have to double back on my route. It's taken 3 days for my knees to feel ok, so out again tomorrow...


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## Stig-OT-Dump (9 Aug 2008)

Do a warm down. Try stretching after you have finished running. Eat some carbs fairly soon after a run. Get advice on shoe type from a specialist running shop (get checked for pronation / gait).

Redbike - your regime seems ideally suited to a running track. Local schools may have a track that is freely available after hours. Whilem there is nothing wrong with the old cinder tracks, a rubberised "tartan track" would offer more cushioning and make things easier for you. Riding your bike there and back would be a good warm-up / down too.


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## johnny (9 Aug 2008)

Baggy said:


> Johnny, I can't yet imagine doing 30 minutes without investing in a Stannah Stairlift!



I thought I might need one last week. I pretty much stood at the stop of the stairs and sort of dropped down each stair. Going up I had to go sideways!


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## Flying_Monkey (11 Aug 2008)

Stretch a lot afterwards... whilst you are still warm. Absolutely essential. But not before. I like running as early as possibly in the day too. Just because of the light and the lack of traffic 

I spent last week running after having not run since December. Maybe it's because I haven't been doing as much serious cycling this year that I found it easier than expected. So I did 4 miles on Monday, 5 on Tuesday, 6 on Wednesday, 8 on Thursday, then had a break and did 12 on Saturday. My legs were fine but it was the impact on my feet that did bad things - very sore tendons or ligaments (I am not sure which!). Still, they recovered pretty quickly... and I've been back on the bike today.

I have been seriously thinking about working up to doing a half ironman, or maybe, eventually, even a full one. Can't be arsed with normal triathalon as I am just not fast as a runner or swimmer - the longer, endurance things suit me better. Basically, I have only one running pace, which I can keep up for anything from 2 to 12 miles (maybe more, I don't know) without any real problem.


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## mr Mag00 (11 Aug 2008)

i started running a few months a go with the idea of getting back into tri and some marathon mountainbike racing. i too had to walk/run mix to start but soon got over that. i find a run for about 15 mins then do some stretching, then put in about 15mins of interval session. a hard push then a recovery for 15 mins. it is vital you stretch when you return to avoid stiffness kicking in. 
running uses many different muscles and the cardio vascular work out is far more intense than cycling. the only option is to take it slowly and rest days are very important.


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## Dayvo (11 Aug 2008)

Fartlek traing (no laughing at the back, please! ) is a very effective way to build up your running stamina and strength:

http://www.realbuzz.com/en-gb/Speed_play/index?pageID=116


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## Flying_Monkey (11 Aug 2008)

Dayvo said:


> Fartlek traing (no laughing at the back, please! ) is a very effective way to build up your running stamina and strength:
> 
> http://www.realbuzz.com/en-gb/Speed_play/index?pageID=116



That's basically a more informal version of interval training.


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## Dayvo (11 Aug 2008)

Flying_Monkey said:


> That's basically a more informal version of interval training.



Exactly!


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## Baggy (12 Aug 2008)

Fartlek running makes things more fun as well - the former Mr.Baggy was a great runner and used this method.

Have just mapped out the route I used to go on my long runs in London and it comes out at 10 miles   I thought it was more like 7 miles as had never measured it before.

If I could get back up to that level would be _very_ pleased. Mind you, if my arch hadn't collapsed I'd never have started cycling again...

Have stretched thoroughly this evening - found a stile near home that's the perfect height for hamstring stretches!


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## RedBike (13 Aug 2008)

Thanks to this fartlek i'm having to take a break from running already (only been at it 3 weeks). 

I jogged for 2/3mins, ran for a little bit (200yrds or so), jogged for 4/5min than ran a little bit again; and so on for about 25 minutes. 

Today I feel like i've got a bruised backside; I can hardly walk. I knew I should of kept on with the jog walk instead of doing jogging for 20mins continuously. 

I seem to have the fitness from cycling but my body just isn't used to running yet.


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## Baggy (13 Aug 2008)

Ouch! One tip I was given before is never to increase by more than a mile (or about ten minutes) a week - you probably ran an extra two miles!

I'm sticking with the jog/walk stuff until I get to my 30 minute running target - about 10 weeks away on my schedule, which I've adapted from the Runner's World begginers training plan.

At the point I'm consistently running for 30 mins might think about fartlek stuff...but will see how bothered I feel about improving my speed etc (probably not!).

Agree that having the fitness from cycling it's always going to be tempting to try too much too soon, but it does take a long time (for me anyway) for your joints and ligaments etc to condition themselves. I feel as if I could run further but rein myself in by thinking about my poor collapsed arch - I don't want it to get worse! There are also plenty of hills near me that encourage walking....


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## Flying_Monkey (13 Aug 2008)

Since I have to pick up my bike from its servicing tomorrow evening, I am going to get up a bit earlier and run the 9 miles into work tomorrow. My wife thinks I am mad.


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## johnny (13 Aug 2008)

Sticking with thirty minutes until it becomes comfortable then starting to increase. Alreading noticing that i am a wee bit quicker each time and I was told that the distance should start to increase naturally(rather like cycling).


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## johnny (15 Aug 2008)

Really enjoyed my run this morning (nice and sunny, birds twittering, heavy dew on the ground, lots of cobwebs glistening) and was all good until someone passed me on the homewards stretch on a road bike and I suddenly thought how nice it would be to be cycling instead......


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## Stig-OT-Dump (15 Aug 2008)

The distance comes pretty quick. I went from nothing to a 1/2 marathon in 10 weeks . And not a shoddy time either...


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## Flying_Monkey (17 Aug 2008)

Stig-OT-Dump said:


> The distance comes pretty quick. I went from nothing to a 1/2 marathon in 10 weeks . And not a shoddy time either...



It does depend very much on your age, physical condition and natural abilities though... that wouldn't be true for everyone.


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## Baggy (17 Aug 2008)

Indeed. Even when I was at my lightest I was not really the right build for a runner, so am hoping to be running 3-4 miles in about 10 weeks. My walk/jog felt easier today so it feels like progress.


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## Kirstie (18 Aug 2008)

I've been running since Jan this year, but on a treadmill, not on the road. Interspersing it with cycling gave me ITB problems, which is a common thing in triathletes, apparently. I went to see a podiatrist, among other things, who, when he looked at my gait, told me that on no account should I ever run outside, or on an uneven surface. Apparently I'm not built for running and shouldn't do it at all! Oh well, there's my international triathlon career round the u-bend then....


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## alecstilleyedye (20 Aug 2008)

i too am hoping to do a (sprint) tri next year. i've started running (as in bought some asics trainers and taken them to work) at lunchtime, although none since the tour de france (watching it online) and as i'm doing a cycling event later this week i didn't want to build up muscles that will be more weight to haul up the climbs.

once that's out of the way, i'll carry on with my 15min sessions with 2 minutes of jogging then 30 seconds of walking. 

the swimming is what i'm dreading…


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## Flying_Monkey (20 Aug 2008)

Kirstie said:


> Apparently I'm not built for running and shouldn't do it at all!



I could have told you that!


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## shooter560 (20 Aug 2008)

I don't think running or in my case starting to run is hampering my riding in fact I'd say its helping things, since starting to run I have found I feel stronger and faster on the bike. Also completed my first 5km race tonight, 6 weeks after starting to run (last time I ran I was at school, 25+ years ago) and managed it in just under 23:30mins


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## Kirstie (21 Aug 2008)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I could have told you that!



You, sir, are a cheeky mare, and will get a slap if you're not careful.


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## Flying_Monkey (21 Aug 2008)

Kirstie said:


> You, sir, are a cheeky mare, and will get a slap if you're not careful.



Sorry!


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## Plax (21 Aug 2008)

Just went for a run myself. Was a runner before I became a cyclist. Didn't do very good, only managed 5 mins 28 secs today before I developed a stitch. I'm using the excuse that I did cycle over 17 miles today.... My legs were totally fine, it's my legs that usually give way first, not developing a stitch after a poxy 5 mins. Hey ho, I'll just have to give it another go at some point .


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## johnny (21 Aug 2008)

shooter560 said:


> I don't think running or in my case starting to run is hampering my riding in fact I'd say its helping things, since starting to run I have found I feel stronger and faster on the bike.



I'll second that, seem to be much stronger on the bike especially on the hills.


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## PrettyboyTim (21 Aug 2008)

I went for the first run I've had in over four years yesterday - I ran along the seaside at Bournemouth along with my Wife, who runs quite a lot. Much to my astonishment I actually did quite well - before when I'd cycled I normally found myself exhausted rather than having problems with my legs whereas yesterday cardio-wise I was fine and didn't find myself out of breath or suffering from a stitch. We did about 6km but my legs were getting pretty painful at the end. I'm pretty stiff today!

Anyway, I may have to do it again. It was fun.


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## alecstilleyedye (22 Aug 2008)

Kirstie said:


> You, sir, are a cheeky mare, and will get a slap if you're not careful.


are you calling fm a ladyboy?


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## Kirstie (22 Aug 2008)

alecstilleyedye said:


> are you calling fm a ladyboy?



'mare' as in short for 'nightmare'. Missed an apostrophe out. I'm sure he'd make a great woman though.


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## Flying_Monkey (22 Aug 2008)

Kirstie said:


> 'mare' as in short for 'nightmare'. Missed an apostrophe out. I'm sure he'd make a great woman though.



I am really not sure how to take that one...


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## Kirstie (22 Aug 2008)

Flying_Monkey said:


> I am really not sure how to take that one...



oh come here and have a hug I was just being silly


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## johnny (28 Aug 2008)

7.5kms in 37mins running....I am pretty chuffed. Now I have 6 weeks of no cycling ahead of me and only sporadic running.....whats that going to do to my fitness?

Oh also started sea swimming as part of the tri training, my cousin who is a good decade younger than me has been joining me....it hurts.


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## Cathryn (28 Aug 2008)

I do realise that this is nothing but I'm ever so slowly being able to run again after my broken leg in JANUARY!! Managed 25 mins in two installments on the treadmill today and nearly cried with excitement. Fitness is fine, it's just a bit delicate still. I'm so excited though!! I'm honestly grateful how quickly I've healed and that I've been cycling since March but I'm longing to run again, so it was a really great moment!!! 

Paris marathon anyone??


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## johnny (29 Aug 2008)

Cathryn said:


> I do realise that this is nothing but I'm ever so slowly being able to run again after my broken leg in JANUARY!!



Rebuilding yourself up from any major trauma is always something! Good effort for keeping at it and hope that you get back to where you want to be.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (29 Aug 2008)

johnny said:


> 7.5kms in 37mins running....I am pretty chuffed..



Johnny - at that pace you are doing a sub 50 minute 10K. Excellent stuff. The improvements will just keep coming.

You haven't said why there is a 6 week break in your training, but you don't need much kit to get out for a run. Are you able to do any weight training? Take the stairs instead of a lift? Do a bit of brisk walking? If you look at things the right way, I'm sure you'll be able to fit the training in (although I'm sure elevating your heartbeat by looking at smutty mags or vids doesn't count, unfortunately)


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## Ludwig (29 Aug 2008)

The best thing if you are serious about running is to join an athletic or running club where you will have a group of other runners to train and race with and you will be able to get proper coaching advice etc. At this time of year the runners will be getting ready for the cross country season. You have league races and various area championships and still a few road races. With running it is best to build up slowly increasing your mileage over the weeks and putting in elements of speed work which might be 20 x 200, 8 x 800, or 4 x 1200 or a combination plus hill repetitions, fartlek runs which is longish 8, 10 or 15 mile runs with bursts of speed and efforts up hills of varying distances. You will need to do one or two speed sessions a week.
Instead of going for half marathon why not go for 5k, 5 mile, 10k or 10 mile. A 10 mile in under an hour is a good time to aim for fit cycling types.
Running is a good way for bike riders to keep fit especially in the winter.
Check Athletics Weekly website for lists of athletics clubs, events, results etc.


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## jasper (29 Aug 2008)

Once you've got a bit of running under your belt, you'll need to start doing brick sessions. Go for a ride, start with a distance your comfortable with (about 10 miles) but go at race pace. Then as soon as you've finished go for a run. You'll have jelly legs at first but there's no other way if you want to do triathlon. Then build distance from that. You'll also need to do brick sessions from swim to bike at some stage also.

I don't do tri's as my swimming isn't strong enough to be competive so I compete in Duathlon (run/bike/run). Buy 220 Mag, it's probably the best out there (in my opinion):

http://www.220magazine.com/

They have some good training & equipment write ups. Here's a beginner's one from the website:

http://www.220magazine.com/220Triathlon_Beginners_Guide.pdf

They also have a forum:

http://forum.220magazine.com/

And join your local Tri club.

Another site to keep an eye on:

http://www.britishtriathlon.org/


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## johnny (30 Aug 2008)

Stig-OT-Dump said:


> You haven't said why there is a 6 week break in your training, but you don't need much kit to get out for a run. Are you able to do any weight training? Take the stairs instead of a lift? Do a bit of brisk walking? If you look at things the right way, I'm sure you'll be able to fit the training in (although I'm sure elevating your heartbeat by looking at smutty mags or vids doesn't count, unfortunately)



Stig, I am sailing around britain (set off this afternoon and going anti clockwise)! Which is pretty darn cool in my book but means that running will be limited by time on land and the need to sleep. 

Jasper, thanks for the advice. I have already started thinking about brick session for the cycle/run and also about mixing the swim with a cycle. Oh and discovered 220. I thought their beginnners guide was pretty good.

Ludwig, i am looking into joining a local tri/running club, just want to get my running to the point where I am at a reasonable level of fitness first.


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## Cathryn (31 Aug 2008)

Oh my word. Have an amazing time!


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## Priscilla Parsley (12 Sep 2008)

Thank you Jasper for those links I am also looking at doing a triathlon next year and this stuff is great www.runnersworld.co.uk has some good stuff to

ta v much


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## PaulB (18 Sep 2008)

Being unable to swim, I remain a frustrated triathlete but compensate by doing duathlons and I have one coming up in October. I've always been a runner until my recent conversion to cycling but I reckon I'll also maintain the running on the side. It's certainly a lot, lot better (IMHO) in the dim and dismal winter nights than being on a bike.


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## johnny (6 Oct 2008)

Running is coming on a treat at the moment. Feels so much easier and my pace seems a lot lot quicker. 

Just gotta get into that pool regularly now.


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## Baggy (7 Oct 2008)

Well, I'm already crocked after 12 weeks 

Tendonitis in my right foot...off to see the podiatrist next week. It might be because my orthotics are too strong so hopefully will be back in action after a bit of rest.


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## jay clock (7 Oct 2008)

I have been through all this over the past 3 years. Always done a bit of cycling and got more and more, then in 2005 started swimming (alone) then at the end of 2006 started running. I joined a tri club in Jan 2007

For running I can strongly recommend this site for the Couch to 5K programme. http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml - it is the basic run walk run, aiming at 25 mins work out. The trick is not to feel like a wuss for doing the walking bit. In Oct 2006 I was worrying about the week I had to run for 20 mins non stop. Today I did 13km which was beyond my dreams 2 years ago

Swimming - joining the club has been the best thing for me. I should have done it sooner as I just forced my way up and down the pool until I could do a mile. Then I have had to relearn technique.

The best forum is www.tritalk.co.uk/forums - you will find a Jay Clock there too......


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## palinurus (7 Oct 2008)

I've just started doing a bit of running, the idea is it'll help when I start playing at cyclocross in a month or so (assuming I get that damn bike together by then). It's harder than it looks.

Still, got some useful pointers here.


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## Bodhbh (10 Oct 2008)

I've been tempted to gradually up out the bi-weekly walk back from work to a run (not done any running since school X-country runs). It would be around 5 miles. Only thing - best route imo would be via a pitch black cycle path.

Runners generally use some sort of headtorch for night running? I don't ever recall seeing one with one (just got some AyUps, could get a headband for them or use a Petzl).


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## palinurus (10 Oct 2008)

Bodhbh said:


> Runners generally use some sort of headtorch for night running? I don't ever recall seeing one with one (just got some AyUps, could get a headband for them or use a Petzl).



I've been wondering the same thing, evenings are the only time I'm going to get for running. I might get myself a headtorch at the weekend, I could use one anyway.


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## Stig-OT-Dump (11 Oct 2008)

I use a head torch and have an arm band with a red light to make me more visible from behind. A quick search on wiggle or a trip to a running shop should sort you out. To be honest, pitch black isn't normally really pitch black. I normally use the head torch to be seen rather than to see.


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## johnny (11 Oct 2008)

Now it seems to be getting a bit colder I've started wearing my gilet when running in the eve's. Has some hi vis stuff on it so hopefully someone elses lights will pick it up. Also have a small light weight head torch too.

First Tri tomorrow, wish me luck!


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## palinurus (12 Oct 2008)

I haven't got any running gear really, except for the shoes it's all cyclewear. I've got some old baggy padded shorts I no longer use for cycling, old MTB type short-sleeve t-shirts, my beanie, cycling socks. I even used my arm-warmers last week.


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## RedBike (12 Oct 2008)

> I've just started doing a bit of running, the idea is it'll help when I start playing at cyclocross in a month or so (assuming I get that damn bike together by then). It's harder than it looks.



I wouldn't worry too much about running for CX. Although there are exceptions the runs are normally only very short, often just 3/4meters and nearly always up a very steep hill. Most of the field (espeshially towards the back) will walk them.


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## palinurus (12 Oct 2008)

I figured if I could at least get my legs used to running a bit I might be less likely to injure myself. I quite like it- it's an excuse to go to the park at odd times- I get to see stuff like dew on cobwebs, early morning fog, low-level evening mist. Heard an owl the other day.


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## RedBike (12 Oct 2008)

I'm glad you went on to explain what you get to see in the park at odd times!!!!


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## johnny (13 Oct 2008)

Blimey I did it!. Swim went better than I thought it would do, cycle was pretty much ok except that my heart rate was going nuts and then on the run I just had pain and more pain. Need to practise running off the bike methinks. Oh well none now until next year so that is nearly 6 months of training!


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## palinurus (13 Oct 2008)

johnny said:


> Blimey I did it!. Swim went better than I thought it would do, cycle was pretty much ok except that my heart rate was going nuts and then on the run I just had pain and more pain. Need to practise running off the bike methinks. Oh well none now until next year so that is nearly 6 months of training!



Nice one. How did you place? how long do the running and swimming bits in triathlon tend to be? (I don't know much about it).


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## johnny (13 Oct 2008)

This was a sprint triathlon (which are the shortest ones i think) so;
Swim 400m, Cycle 15miles, Run 5miles. 

I finished it and that was my only aim but suprisingly didn't come last. My entry was very last minute as a friend of a friend dropped out and so I only decided to do it on Friday. I hadn't been swimming since mid August and also hadn't been on a bike for 6 weeks (see earlier post). Running had also been taking place as and when I could. So I wouldn't say I had done a huge amount of training for it.


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