# I'd like some diet advice please......



## smokeysmoo (1 Jul 2012)

I've been locked in a battle with my body for just about all my life with regards to my weight. I've done the diets, I've been to WW, (lost 56lbs), put it all back on, tried this, tried that you get the picture.

I've just been reading up on metabolism and it would appear that I have a fat & protein efficient one, OK then?

There are also claims that you should NEVER consume Orange Juice, Artificial Sweeteners, Wholemeal bread, fake butters and soy products. What happened to everything in moderation?

There does seem to be a logic there, but is this just another fad do you think?

So, is it worth trying to eat in a specific way that may help to supercharge my metabolsim, and if so does anyone have any meal plans suitable for doing such a thing? 

I know the answer is to consume less calories than you expend, and I'm not looking for a quick fix wonder diet as I know they don't exist. I just want to get things sorted, and preferably before I hit 40, and if I can help it along in anyway it's all good.


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## accountantpete (1 Jul 2012)

Accept your weight but convert the fat into muscle would be my advice.


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## ASC1951 (1 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> So, is it worth trying to eat in a specific way that may help to supercharge my metabolism..


Unless there is something very unusual about yours, no.



> I know the answer is to consume less calories than you expend, and I'm not looking for a quick fix wonder diet as I know they don't exist. I just want to get things sorted, and preferably before I hit 40, and if I can help it along in anyway it's all good.


There no short cuts, although there is a £squillion industry dedicated to persuading you otherwise.
Eat better, eat less.It's pretty much all here http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/loseweight/Pages/Loseweighthome.aspx


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## Aperitif (1 Jul 2012)

Change your forum name to 'Slim' - and turn your body into a boiler that burns anything you post in the hole at the top. You'll know when you don't need to top up this fire...keep riding!
And good luck.


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## Pat "5mph" (1 Jul 2012)

IME people "naturally chubby" like me  have no choice but to go hungry a bit sometimes.
Either that, or accept your body.
Diet plans are good if you manage to keep to them even after you lost weight.
Food to supercharge metabolism? Don't know about that, I thought activity was needed, Smokey!


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## NotthatJasonKenny (1 Jul 2012)

I too have battled just as my grandad and dad have also...I'm told by family it's just the way we are, some people burn it off, some people store it and the only way to change it is to up the calories in vs burnt off ratio to a higher level.

I'm trying to stop my bad habits for at least three weeks out of four but work is stressful at the mo so a bit of comfort eating creeps in. It's hard but stick with it!


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## musa (2 Jul 2012)

Change your mindset your habits exercise more I would say go to the gym but not everyone's a gym fanatic like me and plenty of water. Avoid teas coffees or as they say be in moderation. And if you can't go no lower maintain what you have and tone up


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> There are also claims that you should NEVER consume Orange Juice, Artificial Sweeteners, Wholemeal bread, fake butters and soy products. What happened to everything in moderation?


 
That's such an odd list of seemingly unrelated foods that I'd be deeply suspicious of it, sounds like baloney. Never eat wholemeal bread? Avoiding artificial sweeteners is probably wise, but more out of an avoidance of unnatural chemicals. 

Like others, I tend towards chubby, and my most successful year in terms of losing weight and keeping it off was the year I cycled most, and started a very physical job, a couple of years ago - I lost a stone (and have since put about half a stone back on) I also have a tendency to snack and comfort eat (often giving myself larger portions of carbs like pasta than I need) unless I'm deliberately fierce with myself. The only answer for me is to eat less....


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## RaRa (2 Jul 2012)

I tend to be of the opinion that you can eat anything you want but it's all about portion control. I had almost zero control in this area which is how I ended up so big. I can still remember the horror of finding out just how small a portion really was. I still struggle now but the two things I would recommend you do is get smaller plates and weigh/measure everything until you can recognise the correct amounts.


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

RaRa said:


> I tend to be of the opinion that you can eat anything you want but it's all about portion control. I had almost zero control in this area which is how I ended up so big. I can still remember the horror of finding out just how small a portion really was. I still struggle now but the two things I would recommend you do is get smaller plates and weigh/measure everything until you can recognise the correct amounts.


 
Yes! My downfall, as I said, was (is) pasta, which I eat for most meals because it's quick and easy. I measure spaghetti by the bundle, and my bundles had crept up to the size of 2 or 3 portions. I'm better now, although when I'm very tired or fed up about something, it'll creep up again. I try to always put a few strands back in the jar once I've settled on the size of the bundle - sometimes I end up doing a daft kind of bargain with myself. Select a bundle size, put half a dozen strands back, take two out and add them again, put one back - really it's like I'm fighting myself!


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## RaRa (2 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> Yes! My downfall, as I said, was (is) pasta, which I eat for most meals because it's quick and easy. I measure spaghetti by the bundle, and my bundles had crept up to the size of 2 or 3 portions. I'm better now, although when I'm very tired or fed up about something, it'll creep up again. I try to always put a few strands back in the jar once I've settled on the size of the bundle - sometimes I end up doing a daft kind of bargain with myself. Select a bundle size, put half a dozen strands back, take two out and add them again, put one back - really it's like I'm fighting myself!


 
Me too me too! I started counting rice and then realised things had gone too far - back out came the scales


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

RaRa said:


> I can still remember the horror of finding out just how small a portion really was.


 
I still experience that horror! It is surprising how little we actually need to eat. Well, saddening rather than surprising - I love eating!

ss, not knowing your diet it's impossible to know what to suggest. That said, many people tend to underestimate the amount of carbohydrate they eat and it could well be in that area that you need to look.... not just chocolate bars etc but also between meals snacks of toast, sandwiches, whatever. Those 'tide you over' nibbles can be costly!


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

Re: portion size, we get some of our misconceptions from food packaging and so on. Apparently cereal companies have special small bowls to photograph their cereals in, so that the recommended portion looks like a big bowlful.... Fill a regular bowl to the same level and you're getting way more than a recommended portion.

I've mentioned in the saving money thread, my simple, samey work lunch. But the routine is a good way for me to keep the calories down. I know that noodles, sandwich and small choccy biscuit bar IS enough for me. I buy Clubs or Rocky bars, or Penguins because I get a little bit of chocolate, but not the huge calorie load of a chocolate bar like a Mars Bar or Twix, which I'd be tempted to buy if I took no biscuit at all.

Of course, sometimes I lapse and have a pasty or samosa extra. But it is a treat, and much rarer than it used to be.


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## defy-one (2 Jul 2012)

Agree with many of you about portion size. I look at my plate compared to my family and it used to have twice as much! Now i use smaller plates to help me with portion sizes.
Lunch is always a few peices of fruit with water. I also know i am very hungry when i get home, would eat lots of little things and also dinner at 7 ish. The solution was to have my evening meal as soon as i got home from work. I also weigh myself every Sunday. Helps keep me in check


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## swee'pea99 (2 Jul 2012)

'counting rice'?


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

I did count spaghetti strands once, when I reckoned I'd got a proper portion, but I forget the number now!


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## Stonepark (2 Jul 2012)

I am similar and have been struggling and using the excuse of a new bike to get started again on the weight loss.

Diet is the most important part (not dieting) and avoiding starchy foods and sugars (which we are not historically designed to eat in anything other than token amounts) is where I start.

Atkins takes it too far in a meat only direction, but eating non starchy veg and meat. milk and cheese sees me lose weight every time without appearing to restrict the portion size (i.e. I still always feel full).

For example last night was fillet steak (60z) with asparagus ( 125g) (grilled) and stir fried mushroom (75g), onion(1 large red), garlic (4 cloves) and sweet pepper(1 medium).

The veg bulks out your stomach and provides vitamin and minerals and the steak provides the protein, fat and flavour.

Excessive weight gain was never a problem for human society until starchy foods came along in effectively unlimited quantities (rice, pasta, potato, wheat etc). You only have to look at the native tribes (American indians, inuit, aborigines etc to see what happens when a healthy - and relatively long lived - society is introduced to Western commercial food).


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## AnythingButVanilla (2 Jul 2012)

RaRa said:


> I tend to be of the opinion that you can eat anything you want but it's all about portion control. I had almost zero control in this area which is how I ended up so big. I can still remember the horror of finding out just how small a portion really was. I still struggle now but the two things I would recommend you do is get smaller plates and weigh/measure everything until you can recognise the correct amounts.


 
God, yes! I've been on and off Weight Watchers for most of my adult life and when I moved to London three and a half years ago I was at my heaviest ever at 19 stone something. I've lost three stone since then by using WW sporadically but got the shock of my life when the Pro Points plan came out and I was suddenly restricted with the amount of carbs I could consume as I'm a bit of a salad dodger and tend to live on bread and pasta and rice. Measuring it out I was like 'seriously, wtf is this?' as I'd been eating portions big enough for three people, hence why I was/am fat. It's quite hard to get your head around what is and isn't a normal portion size and it takes a lot of getting used to. Unfortunately I'm another naturally chunky, big boned person so I'm never going to be teeny tiny but at least I know how to get half way there and I didn't get fat overnight so I won't lost weight overnight either.


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## Sittingduck (2 Jul 2012)

Record your food (and drink) in a log.
Weigh or Measure stuff that's measurable - don't guess (you will be wrong, at least in the beginning).
If you consume beer - cut right back
Incorporate other activity - not the same old, same old cycling distances and speeds.
Do some kind of resistance training / weights / strength training (this will help boost metabolism and retain lean mass, while you are in a calorie deficit).
Eat frequently - snack on healthy stuff and eat more protein.
I chose to fight the war on both the food and exercise fronts. I am much better at working hard, than I am at eating cleanly. I could probably count the number of days in the past 8 months that I have consumed less than 2000 calories, on my fingers and still have fingers to spare. Nevertheless, must have done something right and I would say that learning about portion control, cutting out virtually all booze and no takeaways have been the hattrick of winners, on the food front.


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

defy-one said:


> The solution was to have my evening meal as soon as i got home from work.


 
This is a remarkably practical solution! Sometimes we overlook the obvious in our search for answers.

Avoiding over-eating can be a matter of eating before you get hungry. Personally, I think hunger is your biggest foe if you want to loose weight. Blimey, it sounds as though I'm advocating 'little and often'.... maybe I am??


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## ASC1951 (2 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Blimey, it sounds as though I'm advocating 'little and often'.... maybe I am??


I can manage the 'often'....


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

yep, me too... for me, eating's just something to do....


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## Nihal (2 Jul 2012)

Dieting with lots of weight training helps,biking too...........but doing too many things in a very short time period will kill you...........on a less severe note,you would easily pile on what you lost


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## Nihal (2 Jul 2012)

swee'pea99 said:


> 'counting rice'?


Its easy,you start
"1,2,3.............."


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## RaRa (2 Jul 2012)

swee'pea99 said:


> 'counting rice'?


 I have a slight tendancy towards OCD. Counting things becomes a bit of a compulsion that I have to stop as soon as I realise I've started.


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## VamP (2 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> There are also claims that you should NEVER consume Orange Juice, Artificial Sweeteners, Wholemeal bread, fake butters and soy products. What happened to everything in moderation?


 
Sounds like bollocks to me.

Best thing I have ever done is read Matt Fitzgerald's _Racing Weight_*. Full of useful insights, and specifically useful for cyclists. I don't think there are any quick fixes, and there is definitely no substitute to understanding in some depth nutrition and body fuelling at exercise. I went from 16 stone to 13 and a half on common sense and willpower, but could not get lower than that to save my life. I have before never truly understood how to harness appetite - Fitzgerald is awesome at describing this.

After _reading Racing Weight_ in February, I have steadily reduced to 12 and a half, and looking at realistically plateauing out at around 12 by September, which would be around 10% body fat composition for me. This despite a knee injury that has kept me off the bike for the last three months.

* - other books are available

Edit - Oh yeah, forgot to say - no calorie counting needed if you learn to harness your appetite properly. If you are (like me) incapable of the organisational feat that calorie counting represents then you'll know what I'm talking about.


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## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2012)

Nihal said:


> Dieting with lots of weight training helps,biking too...........but doing too many things in a very short time period will kill you...........on a less severe note,you would easily pile on what you lost


Exactly right! I've this a few times myself


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## Nihal (2 Jul 2012)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Exactly right! I've this a few times myself


I did it a month ago,so i thought it would be good to share it.But after that,everything i've lost has not come back(till now that is)


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## lulubel (2 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> That said, many people tend to underestimate the amount of carbohydrate they eat and it could well be in that area that you need to look.... not just chocolate bars etc but also between meals snacks of toast, sandwiches, whatever


 
Carbohydrate is not the problem. Chocolate bars contain a lot of fat, as does the butter that you put on your toast and in your sandwiches. If you add what most people would consider a "reasonable" amount of butter on a slice of toast, there are more calories in the butter than in the toast.



Stonepark said:


> Excessive weight gain was never a problem for human society until starchy foods came along in effectively unlimited quantities (rice, pasta, potato, wheat etc). You only have to look at the native tribes (American indians, inuit, aborigines etc to see what happens when a healthy - and relatively long lived - society is introduced to Western commercial food).


 
While I agree that people tend to badly judge portion sizes of rice and pasta, starchy food isn't really the problem. There's been a deliberate effort by the food industry (particularly in the US, and this has then spread to the UK) to get people to eat more so the industry can increase sales. Strategies to do this have included increasing portion sizes in take away food and the introduction of "meal deals", introducing snacking between meals as a normal thing, and the addition of high frustose corn syrup to processed food in preference to fat (which causes sugar highs and dips and increases hunger). The result of all this is that attitudes towards food have changed and our idea of what is a "normal" amount of food is much more than it was 50 years ago. We just eat more than we need.

The best way to lose weight and keep it off is to prepare your own food from fresh, raw ingredients (so you know exactly what's in it), weigh everything, and count calories until you're used to recognising what a normal amount of food looks like. There's no need to do any special "diets". Just try to eat as many different foods as possible, in sensible quanities.


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## yello (2 Jul 2012)

lulubel said:


> Carbohydrate is not the problem. .


 
Oh sorry. I must have missed the bit where smokey posted what he ate!


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## lulubel (2 Jul 2012)

yello said:


> Oh sorry. I must have missed the bit where smokey posted what he ate!


 
I don't think he did. I just meant the things you quoted as being fattening because of being high in carbohydrates actually contain more calories in fat than in carbohydrate. People say that bread is fattening, for example, but it isn't. It's the butter and (often) high calorie fillings/toppings we have with it that are fattening.


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## Eddie (2 Jul 2012)

I've gone from 17stone 10 months ago to 12.5 stone now. While building quite a bit of muscle mass.

I've spent a lot of time educating myself about nutrition, weight loss and exercise, to the point where i've developed quite a lot of expertise on the matter.

Most of the time people are looking for a short cut to simplify down their diet to one factor, such as carbs = bad, or eating at night = bad. These things are rarely true, but they tend to work, as following any selective plan achieves one major thing. It makes you consciously think about your eating, and this is the first step to controlling your diet.

I don't really believe in any school of thought, but I strongly believe in avoiding sugar, and eating a high protein diet. The times where I have done this, I have achieved by far the best results. I would advise any active person to try to take in around 30% of their calories from protein.

I'm happy to answer any questions about diet/nutrition to the best of my ability. On a side note, I saw a post a while back about "turning fat into muscle" - this is impossible, you can build muscle and lose fat, but they are separate processes.


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

Prompted by this thread, when I measured out my spaghetti tonight, I weighed it. The pack suggests 75-100g dried spaghetti per person for a main course.

The portion I weighed out looked tiny. I reckon, even when I'm being hard on myself, I'm cooking 150g. I stuck with the 100g, and it did look a bit little on the plate, but I made an effort to eaet more slowly, and probably felt as full at the end as I would have done with 50% more.

That's another trick, eating slowly. Apparently it takes a certain time for the message to get from your stomach to your brain that you're full, and if you eat quickly, you'll eat more in that time than if you eat slowly - but you'll still feel full with less.


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## Sittingduck (2 Jul 2012)

I did 75g of penne in tonight's meal. Last batch of pasta bol I did was using 60g helpings but I decided to push the boat out. I think it's just about getting into habits. I would have easily been using 120g+ in the past. I find that drinking a big glass of water with dinner also helps.


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## smokeysmoo (2 Jul 2012)

Thanks for all the info guys, some good stuff in there. It's not that I don't know what to do, that's the easy bit  It's just bloody doing it that's the hard bit!

When I did WW I found that tracking, (food journal), and drinking lots of water really helped. Perhaps I need to go back to doing that? I've no doubt that my portion control is out of control too, so a new battery for the scales is required I think. 

I don't drink so that's never been an issue, (sadly or I could just cut it out!). I've always hidden behind the fact I'm a big guy, 6' 5" and built like a brick toilet, and I've always been the joker in the pack as well, but you've heard of the tears of a clown right? I'm not comfortable to state my weight right now, but hopefully I will do eventually.

As for my diet, it really isn't great, let's be honest if it was I wouldn't have started this thread?

I eat too much convenience food, too much junk and I snack WAY too much. I can be OK all day, (as long as there are no birthdays at work), then when Mrs S is sorting out Miss S at night and I find myself alone downstairs, that's when the cupboard starts whispering my name.

Then again I go through phases at work where all I want to do is eat crap. All the usual fast food junk, pizza, kebabs you name it. I've got myself stuck on a vicious circular treadmill, except I'm not doing enough running on it  

FWIW I start EVERY day with the best of intentions, then if I fall off the wagon even slightly I tend to go into a downward spiral and the day ends up being written off!

Distraction is good. Tuesday's tend to be OK as I play badminton so I'm out for a chunk of the evening. I just need to get my head in gear and sort myself out TBH.

So I'm going to stick to everything in moderation, but apply a LOT more moderation to the 'bad' things. I need to try and plan meals as well. That way things aren't left to the last minute. Tonight is a great example. Miss S had a school performance tonight and I've only just got in from watching her at 8.30pm and we have no idea what we're doing for our tea  Normally in this circumstance it would end up being a takeaway of one sort or another, but that is NOT happening tonight as I'm 'in the zone' I might just have a bowl of porridge with a banana and call it a day.

Last thing, I've just collected my new, (to me), turbo trainer today. Now I can't do anything with it tonight, but I'll distract myself tomorrow when I get home from work by setting it up, then I'll be off to badminton, but it will be ready for action for when I come home on Wednesday, which considering I've got a meeting all afternoon that I'm really not looking forward too should be good to relieve the tensions of the day.

Thanks again guys, I do appreciate all your responses


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## lulubel (2 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> That's another trick, eating slowly. Apparently it takes a certain time for the message to get from your stomach to your brain that you're full, and if you eat quickly, you'll eat more in that time than if you eat slowly - but you'll still feel full with less.


 
We had a discussion on this on another forum a while back, and came to the conclusion that you have to eat slowly enough for the food you've already eaten to be making good progress through the digestive system before you finish. Your brain doesn't know how many calories you've put in your stomach, but it does know when you've disgested enough to not need any more.


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## NotthatJasonKenny (2 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> FWIW I start EVERY day with the best of intentions, then if I fall off the wagon even slightly I tend to go into a downward spiral and the day ends up being written off!
> 
> :



I happen to know there is a set of scales in one of the offices at your work where that rather portly manager sits, maybe a dual public weigh off will help?


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## Enigma2008 (2 Jul 2012)

calories in > calories out = weight gain
calories in < calories out = weight loss
calories in = calories out = weight static
Simples!


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## Sittingduck (2 Jul 2012)

Enigma2008 said:


> calories in < calories out = weight gain
> calories in > calories out = weight loss
> calories in = calories out = weight static
> Simples!


 
But it isn't that simple is it? There are other factors, like will power, temptation, eating disorders, injury, budget, greed, liking how cookies taste!


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## smokeysmoo (2 Jul 2012)

NotthatJasonKenny said:


> I happen to know there is a set of scales in one of the offices at your work where that rather portly manager sits, maybe a dual public weigh off will help?


Not happening


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## Ghost Donkey (2 Jul 2012)

Eddie said:


> I've gone from 17stone 10 months ago to 12.5 stone now. While building quite a bit of muscle mass.
> 
> I've spent a lot of time educating myself about nutrition, weight loss and exercise, to the point where i've developed quite a lot of expertise on the matter.
> 
> ...


 
I like this post a lot 

I lost 4 stone and have kept it off with no real effort to keep it off. I'm at a healthy weight now an could lose a bit more if I put the effort in I'm sure but I'm happy where I'm at (no longer obese!) for now. I eat mainly fresh food. The information on healthy eating in the big bad world is contradictory and confusing to say the least. I read a lot on the science behind diet claims and looked for common factors on what would seem like good choices. Fresh food is definitely a biggy. I've written "read up on the endocrine system" so much I might as well make it my forum username. There is truth, from what I've read and also from my own experiences, on starchy carbs being an issue. You'll learn why if you read up on bodily hormones in endocrinology. Fruit juice and dried fruit are the same. I still have them but directly after exercise for quick digestion recovery carbs if I do a long training session. Not great for lunch if you are sat down in a chair at work all day like I do. Sugar is something to cut down on. Man made fats are worse the "natural" fats. By example the saturated fat in mackerel doesn't concern me but I don't eat it by the bucket. It's not a case that fat makes you fat on it's own and not all calories are equal. The thing you're up against is there's no money in fresh food and it's difficult to build up a massive industry and branded products by telling people to each fresh food.

The NHS health pages can be confusing. Some of them have contradictions on the same page. They also refer to the eatwell plate which is to be taken with a large portion of salt and not just a pinch.

One book I particularly like is the Paleo Diet for Athletes. I don't do a paleo diet and skipped those bits. Don't be put off by the title. The book includes very un-paleo diet food including bread, pasta, whey protein, milk, sports energy products etc. It goes into the amounts of food to fuel training and recover based on weight, training volume etc. I use it as a guideline. I expect if I did have time to measure food out properly I may see benefits but I simply don't have the time at the moment. It includes the kind of sensible eating for the rest of the day if you are a weekend warrior like me or a multiple training sessions per day type. Co-written by Joe Friel who also wrote the cyclists training bible and the triathletes training bible. New edition due out soon if you're interested in it..


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## Ghost Donkey (2 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> Normally in this circumstance it would end up being a takeaway of one sort or another, but that is NOT happening tonight as I'm 'in the zone' I might just have a bowl of porridge with a banana and call it a day.


 
I'd say fresh food but banana and porridge is a bit much before bed. Bananas are a directly before, during or after an intense or long training session only if you are trying to lose weight. Definitely better than takeaway and I heartily applaud your dedication. As a former evening take away fan I know how tempting it is when you're tired and hungry with family commitments. I train in the evenings so my supper is not for everyone so I will reserve suggestions.

The thing about eating slowly to notice you are full is certainly a good idea but your brain works on fullness via hormones before your stomach becomes uncomfortably full. Protein creates a stronger hormonal response for satiety. Fat has a stronger one than carbs but I'll raise the point of more caleries per gram in fat before anyone else does . Confused, you will be . Hormones rule the body. Insulin, leptin and ghrelin are all good know about to a basic level if you are struggling to lose weight. I will add I'm not too clever and I can understand it so I'm sure everyone else on here can.


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## Arch (2 Jul 2012)

Ghost Donkey said:


> Insulin, leptin and ghrelin are all good know about to a basic level .


 
Weren't they in Lord of the Rings?


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## Ghost Donkey (2 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> Weren't they in Lord of the Rings?


That's no way to speak about my daughters!


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## smokeysmoo (2 Jul 2012)

OK, ended up having a ham sandwich on wholemeal bread with a few crisps  Not ideal perhaps, but far better than a takeaway and from a portion point of view compared to what I'd normally have this was very light.

I'm happy with that as I feel I've controlled things well today. Tomorrow will be planned better as Mrs S will have my tea ready for when I get home, (or so help her), then it's turbo set up, won't be able to resist a quick spin no doubt, then off to badminton


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## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2012)

lulubel said:


> The best way to lose weight and keep it off is to prepare your own food from fresh, raw ingredients (so you know exactly what's in it), weigh everything, and count calories until you're used to recognising what a normal amount of food looks like. There's no need to do any special "diets". Just try to eat as many different foods as possible, in sensible quanities.


 
^^^^
Exactly this! May I add that avoiding shop bought bread helps a lot with weight loss.
For some reason, I find that if if I make my own I eat less of it and I seem to digest it better.
Wonder what they put in the tiger bread? Sooo soft, you can eat a whole loaf with half a round of brie!
Well, since I stopped this kind of comfort eating I became skinny 
You get used to control your eating habits. sadly, some of us have to be forever vigilant: for example, the other day I was in a reastaurant, I really really wanted a pizza (did not have one for over a year) but I choose cod instead.
That does not mean I never eat cake or chocolate, just try to quickly calculate calories before I stuff myself.
I do not even care about looks, all this effort I make is because I feel that when I'm heavy I have less energy, need lots for my work.
All my support to Smokey!


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## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> OK, ended up having a ham sandwich on wholemeal bread with a few crisps  Not ideal perhaps, but far better than a takeaway and from a portion point of view compared to what I'd normally have this was very light.
> 
> I'm happy with that as I feel I've controlled things well today. Tomorrow will be planned better as Mrs S will have my tea ready for when I get home, (or so help her), then it's turbo set up, won't be able to resist a quick spin no doubt, then off to badminton


 
Try to substitute 1 meal a day with either:
1)
a big (as much as you want) plate of vegetables, quickly blanched (well, cook them as soft as you like) in the micro (only takes minutes, it's like steaming) dress with salt, black pepper, a little olive oil, lemon juice.
or:
2) a medium (breakfast) portion of porridge, with granola, nuts, seeds, dried fruit of your choice.
This is easily done even at work, just take it in a plastic container, add a little bit of milk, or water, pop in the micro for about 1/2 min. You could eat this with just cold milk, I do it all the time.
Boring lunch this porridge mix, but it fills you up: try reading the calorie content of a pre-pack sandwich: you could eat an evening meal for that! I avoid them like poison  ... rather eat the ones I make if I'm having bread.


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## Eddie (2 Jul 2012)

If anyone is looking for a few simple "tricks" to help you lose weight, here are the ones I've found to work:

1. Drink a large glass of water around 20 minutes before you eat
2. When you feel hungry, drink some water and wait. Often thirst can be confused for hunger
3. Drink Green tea
4. Don't drink your calories. Definitely avoid any drink with sugar (including fruit juice*).
5. Eat vast portions of salad and green vegetables. You can basically eat as much of these as you can get down. It will help a lot with the hunger that goes with dieting.
6. You can eat a bloody load of chicken breast. They are about 250kcal per breast, so you could eat two 3x per day and that would only be 1,500 calories. Add in some green veg and you certainly won't be hungry!
7. Develop some recipes you like and can cook quickly. I have several of these, and the best part is that they use tinned ingredients, so I have plenty in reserve. For me these include omlettes, tuna (tinned) and Black bean (tinned) salad, Sardines (tinned) on Whomeal Bread. CousCous (dehydrated, keeps forever) with some veg and Tuna.... the List goes on. I can prepare each of these in less than 2 minutes, so there is no excuse for pre-meal snacking or getting takeaway because I am feeling lazy.
8. Eat the same things regularly. I ate chicken breast salad every day for about 3 months. It did the job, and it removed temptation. Routine is your friend. You'll notice that when you break your routine (travel, special occasions etc) is when you cheat on the diet. Establish routines, they will make your life easier.
9. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that any food is "healthy". If you need 2,000 calories for the day, and you've eaten 2,000, then it's better to eat no more, than it is to eat something else. I don't care if it's a "superfood" and packed with anti-oxidants.
10. Download myfitnesspal for your phone. This is an awesome app and works really well. Cannot recommend this highly enough. 

*Eat fruit instead. One glass of orange juice has the same calories as about 6 oranges. Because juicing removes all the fibre, your body doesn't "recognise" the calories you've taken in. So fruit juice doesn't make you full. Eating raw fruit is a much better alternative.




Ghost Donkey said:


> One book I particularly like is the Paleo Diet for Athletes. I don't do a paleo diet and skipped those bits. Don't be put off by the title. The book includes very un-paleo diet food including bread, pasta, whey protein, milk, sports energy products etc. It goes into the amounts of food to fuel training and recover based on weight, training volume etc. I use it as a guideline. I expect if I did have time to measure food out properly I may see benefits but I simply don't have the time at the moment. It includes the kind of sensible eating for the rest of the day if you are a weekend warrior like me or a multiple training sessions per day type. Co-written by Joe Friel who also wrote the cyclists training bible and the triathletes training bible. New edition due out soon if you're interested in it..


 
Thanks for the tip in this book. Recently I've been training twice a day, including 2 - 3 hours cardio and weights, and I've been struggling to work out what to eat. This book looks like just the ticket.


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## Sittingduck (3 Jul 2012)

The above post is excellent - very good tips there.

For what it's worth - I don't buy bread any more. Well, only wholemeal pita. Around 150 calories for a single piece (I only ever have one). Don't miss it either - I always used to be throwing away half eaten loaves, so wasteful.


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## Hicky (3 Jul 2012)

pm sent


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## Nosaj (3 Jul 2012)

For what its worth I followed the rule that if I had to use a pair of scissors to get at my food I ignored it.

I was 16.5 stone and am now around the 12 stone mark. I simply changed where I shopped, binned all the processed garbage and junk you get from the supermarkets and started shopping for clean, real food at local farm shops and butchers, greengrocers etc. (I admit I am lucky my wife is a stay at home mum so she is able to do this others may not be so fortunate)

I stick to wholewheat pasta's, rice, chicken, loads of veg occassional steak, minimal booze.

I do not weigh anything, count anything just observe a fist of carbs a fist of protein and whatever veg or raw salad, Cheddar is swapped to Feta, For crisps I have rice cakes for dessert I have fruit etc etc.

This diet will not get me to the point where my abs will pop but has kept me at a weight I can sustain. OK I could probably could knock another 1/2 to a stone off if I started to get anal about macronutrients but I still like a cake after the club run and an occassional treat.

90% of the time I eat clean 10% I do what I please.


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## smokeysmoo (3 Jul 2012)

Another good day, well IMO at least is almost finished.

Porridge with banana for brekkie, tuna pasta for my dinner, (lunch if you live south of Stoke). I didn't measure it but Mrs S only put around half what she normally does in the same tub so I'm happy with that. I have had a couple of small snacks through the day, (Go Ahead biscuity things, I know, I know!), and I've had my fruit as well.

I'm now sat here eating, slowly though as I'm typing too  , a jacket potato with beans for my tea, (dinner if you live south of Crewe ) . I know beans have sugar and salt in them but it's far better than the processed junk I have been munching.

I've done pretty well with my water intake as well today which I find really does help things along.

*PING* Ghost Donkey, Mrs S got me the Paleo Diet book today. It's not the one for athletes, but hey I'm not an athlete anyway  I'll read through it and report back at some point 

OK, off to the shed to set up the turbo ready for tomorrwo night, then off to badminton. Hell I haven't even got time for a pudding, happy days 

*PING* Hicky. Thanks for the PM. I'll sit down and read it properly when I give it some real focus. I appreciate it pal, thank you


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## Ghost Donkey (3 Jul 2012)

I've not read the paleo diet book but I think it's a bit more (and I couldn't find a gentler word) extreme. No dairy, bread, pasta, legumes, grains at all. If it's Prof Loren Cordain's book it hopefully covers the science around the subject so you can apply it to how you eat. Should be interesting. If you exercise, you're an athlete :-). I usually suggest the athlete one as it's a bit more moderate when it comes to food choices and is big on fresh food.

I'd go for a tuna salad for lunch rather than tuna pasta. Plenty of kale, spinach, peppers, tomatos, spring onions, fennel, cold pressed olive oil. Save the potato or pasta for your pre training meal. I'll shut up now :-D. As my suffering wife always tell people, "don't ask him about his weight loss or food!"


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## Arch (3 Jul 2012)

Nosaj said:


> I do not weigh anything,


 
Wow, that diet's really worked then! 

Just an aside, I've heard of the Paleo diet, and as I understand it it's based on a 'natural' human diet from our pre-farming days. So why are grains and legumes out? We'd have been perfectly able to gather those in the wild.


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## smokeysmoo (3 Jul 2012)

Ghost Donkey said:


> I'd go for a tuna salad for lunch rather than tuna pasta. Plenty of kale, spinach, peppers, tomatos, spring onions, fennel, cold pressed olive oil.


There in lies a huge problem for me, I don't like any of those foods!, I have tried them, (except Kale, just Googled it so I know I haven't!). I wish I did, Mrs S will quite often have a salad with what ever we're having for tea, and it always look really good.

I'm going to have to try things again, maybe try them a different way somehow, (fried? ). Seriously though I will give new things a try, but tomatoes and onions have always been a big no no with me


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## Arch (3 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> There in lies a huge problem for me, I don't like any of those foods!, I have tried them, (except Kale, just Googled it so I know I haven't!). I wish I did, Mrs S will quite often have a salad with what ever we're having for tea, and it always look really good.
> 
> I'm going to have to try things again, maybe try them a different way somehow, (fried? ). Seriously though I will give new things a try, but tomatoes and onions have always been a big no no with me


 
I find I like things more in salad if they are finely shredded or diced. Carrot, cabbage, beetroot etc. There's a leafy salad sold in Sainsburys that has very finely cut strips of beetroot (raw I think). As it happens, I like beetroot, but I wouldn't want it raw - except in fine strands like that. Ditto raw carrot. And some dressing, or mayonnaise, while adding a few cals, can make foods more palatable - hence coleslaw! Sometimes the texture of a thing is what you dislike, and having it chopped small overcomes that. 

And some baby salad leaves don't have much flavour at all to dislike, but they do help fill you up.


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## Ghost Donkey (3 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> Wow, that diet's really worked then!
> 
> Just an aside, I've heard of the Paleo diet, and as I understand it it's based on a 'natural' human diet from our pre-farming days. So why are grains and legumes out? We'd have been perfectly able to gather those in the wild.




Yep I'd agree with that one. A lot of people are also of the belief that if something hasn't always been avaiable it isn't necessarily bad. Aubergines aren't native to these shores along with a whole host of foods. There's two parts to it really. The fresh food approach is a big part of it and then the issues relating to inflamation, leaky gut and food intolerences. Leaky gut is something which is linked to some illnesses like MS. Whether it's leaky gut in someone who may or may not be intollerent 

Hang on, doing it again. Tangent.


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## Ghost Donkey (4 Jul 2012)

lulubel said:


> Carbohydrate is not the problem. Chocolate bars contain a lot of fat, as does the butter that you put on your toast and in your sandwiches. If you add what most people would consider a "reasonable" amount of butter on a slice of toast, there are more calories in the butter than in the toast.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, just read this this. What you say is right and I largely agree but you're missing a piece of the puzzle. The sugar highs and dips explain the issue with sugary fruit juice, starchy carbs etc. All the quick energy. Fruit juice has all the sugar of multiple pieces of fruit with none of the digestable fibre to slow down the energy release. Same with the quick energy release of syatchy carbs. Or so I've read in many, many places. Too much sugar in the system (inc from digesting starchy carbs) creates an insulin response which results in fat storage. The high level of insulin also results in the body not beibg able to access fat in the fat cells. When the blood sugar drops (the lows you mentioned) the body cannot access stored fat for energy so needs to eat again and fast so you go for more divert type food and the cycle continues. With time your body becomes more insulin resistant but your fat cells become resistant slower resulting in a higher proportion of fat being stored in your fat cells. This is one of the reasons why not all calories are equal and glycemic index and glycemic load came about in dieting. Glycemic index includes portion size (which you've spoken about) while glycemic load focuees on energy release.

Done on my phone, info from my terrible memory. I can't copy and paste from intetweb too well on my phone but if you read up on this stuff it's quite interesting. Hormones.

I'll stop now. If anyone wasn't falling asleep before reading this they will be now.


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## MrGrumpy (4 Jul 2012)

Reading all of these posts intently, I like my grub, fact, however dare i say it heading for middle age, its not so easy to shift the weight. I am 6ft and 15 stone, ideally would like to get down to 14 stone, maybe 13. I know exactly what I need to shift as my diet is not bad, non processed foods for dinner, lunch etc and porridge for brekkie. My main issue is sugar, finding it hard to cut out but reckon thats my main barrier to the fact that even cycling 100+ miles a week my weight is static. Wine at weekend is an issue as well but one step at a time . Going to cut the sugar right down and see what happens!


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## Stonepark (4 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> Wow, that diet's really worked then!
> 
> Just an aside, I've heard of the Paleo diet, and as I understand it it's based on a 'natural' human diet from our pre-farming days. So why are grains and legumes out? We'd have been perfectly able to gather those in the wild.


 

Because it is only farming (breeding) which has made the energy in collecting them greater than the energy in the plant. Take wheat (or any other cereal), the grains you get nowadays have 10,000 years of breeding and evolution to be the size they are today. In Paleo times, they were no bigger than grass seed and grew randomly about the place making collection energy intensive and not worth the return. They are also low in vitamins and minerals (i.e. all modern cereal is fortified - read added vitamins- to prevent scurvey, beriberi etc which is unknown in the Paleo diet.

Paleo books do make the point that cultures which existed even up till recently (i.e. the isolated tribes etc) living on a Paleo diet all had excellent health (i.e. no bad teeth, all athlete fit, little illnesses etc, proper bone growth and development - think teeth/jaw and feet) etc


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## lulubel (4 Jul 2012)

Ghost Donkey said:


> Sorry, just read this this. What you say is right and I largely agree but you're missing a piece of the puzzle. The sugar highs and dips explain the issue with sugary fruit juice, starchy carbs etc. All the quick energy. Fruit juice has all the sugar of multiple pieces of fruit with none of the digestable fibre to slow down the energy release. Same with the quick energy release of syatchy carbs. Or so I've read in many, many places. Too much sugar in the system (inc from digesting starchy carbs) creates an insulin response which results in fat storage. The high level of insulin also results in the body not beibg able to access fat in the fat cells. When the blood sugar drops (the lows you mentioned) the body cannot access stored fat for energy so needs to eat again and fast so you go for more divert type food and the cycle continues. With time your body becomes more insulin resistant but your fat cells become resistant slower resulting in a higher proportion of fat being stored in your fat cells. This is one of the reasons why not all calories are equal and glycemic index and glycemic load came about in dieting. Glycemic index includes portion size (which you've spoken about) while glycemic load focuees on energy release.


 
The problem with what you're saying here is that you're using the general term "starchy carbs" which people take to mean something other than what I think you're trying to say. I prefer to use the term "processed carbs" in the context you're using it, which covers white bread, white pasta, etc. This separates the type of cabohydrate that does cause highs and lows from the wholegrain carbs, which are high fibre, contain more protein, and are digested slower. (When you say "starchy carbs" are bad, most people will assume you mean all bread, all rice, etc, and I don't think you're saying that.)

Generally, I think I agree with what you're saying, although I don't usually go into it in so much depth because most people don't care!

As for fruit juice, it has 2 - maybe 3 - uses in my life. It thins down a smoothie to the point where you can actually drink it rather than needing to eat it with a spoon, it's great before an early morning run when I don't have time to digest something solid before I go, and (the possible 3rd use) it's one of the first things I'd look for if I was close to bonking and had to get some carbs in me quick. Otherwise, I'd rather eat fruit.


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## VamP (4 Jul 2012)

Stonepark said:


> Paleo books do make the point that cultures which existed even up till recently (i.e. the isolated tribes etc) living on a Paleo diet all had excellent health (i.e. no bad teeth, all athlete fit, little illnesses etc, proper bone growth and development - think teeth/jaw and feet) etc


 
I don't really have an opinion on the Paleo diet one way or the other, but may I respectfully suggest that there are more obvious explanations for this specific point?


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## smokeysmoo (4 Jul 2012)

Arch said:


> There's a leafy salad sold in Sainsburys that has very finely cut strips of beetroot .


Indeed there is, I had it today  Lettuce, beetroot, cabbage (I think), yellow and red peppers, carrot and sweetcorn. It also has a sachet of mayo but I didn't use any of it *pats own back*







I added some fresh chicken to it as well for some protein, (removed the skin of course). I've still had a couple of snacks and my fruit, and I had a sensibly portioned tea. 

I'm particularly chuffed with myself as I had to go to a meeting this afternoon, and when I got there there was a full buffet spread laid on, all the usual suspect, sausage rolls, filled sandwiches, etc, and even cakes and biscuits as well  But I knew this would be the case so I went prepared.

I'd had my chicken salad before hand, and I took a banana with me. I skipped the whole buffet on arrival and when we had a coffee break I had my banana ready so I was tempted at all 

Finished off the turbo set up after my tea, (ran out of time last night as it needed more assembly then I thought), and I'm typing this now as I get my breath back after a 45 minute turbo session through the Pyrenees


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## Hicky (5 Jul 2012)




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## smokeysmoo (5 Jul 2012)

Mackeral salad for my dinner today  I did have a wholemeal pitta bread with it as well but come on this is great for me 

[EDIT] Fresh chicken, boiled new pots, (no butter), and salad for tea


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## RaRa (5 Jul 2012)

Keep it up - you're doing great. Try to think of it as a lifestyle rather than a diet, I find it helps with the mental side of the battle.


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## Arch (5 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> Mackeral salad for my dinner today  I did have a wholemeal pitta bread with it as well but come on this is great for me


 
Well done!


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## smokeysmoo (19 Jul 2012)

Quick update. I'm currently 7 pounds lighter than I was two weeks ago I'm still feeling strong and motivated and I'm not experiencing any urges to eat loads of rubbish which I'm very happy about.

I'm incorporating a lot of aspects of the Paleo Diet which is definitely helping me due to the high protein content, and overall I don't feel like I'm on a diet at all.

So thanks for the advice and the support, and I'll keep checking back with updates as and when.

Ride safe


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## Sittingduck (19 Jul 2012)

Nice work - keep it up!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> Quick update. I'm currently 7 pounds lighter than I was two weeks ago I'm still feeling strong and motivated and I'm not experiencing any urges to eat loads of rubbish which I'm very happy about.
> 
> I'm incorporating a lot of aspects of the Paleo Diet which is definitely helping me due to the high protein content, and overall I don't feel like I'm on a diet at all.
> 
> ...


Please please please be carefull! You really don't want to lose too quickly.


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## NotthatJasonKenny (21 Jul 2012)

I've lost 6 pounds since April and a similar amount each month since last year, I'm 15 8 now but I was 16 9 last year, 2 pounds a month will do me, I'm happy for my weight to continue to drop slowly as I want this to be for life!


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## smokeysmoo (21 Jul 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Please please please be carefull! You really don't want to lose too quickly.


I won't, I still like my food but I'm generally eating better food and less rubbish 

I do expect to have lost when I 'weigh in' tomorrow, but hopefully only a pound or two. If it's much more then I'll review my portion sizes to slow things down.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (21 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> I won't, I still like my food but I'm generally eating better food and less rubbish
> 
> I do expect to have lost when I 'weigh in' tomorrow, but hopefully only a pound or two. If it's much more then I'll review my portion sizes to slow things down.


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## NotthatJasonKenny (21 Jul 2012)

smokeysmoo said:


> I won't, I still like my food but I'm generally eating better food and less rubbish
> 
> I do expect to have lost when I 'weigh in' tomorrow, but hopefully only a pound or two. If it's much more then I'll review my portion sizes to slow things down.



I really noticed your loss this week so I reckon you can afford to slow down!


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