# 2 vs 3 wheels.



## BlackPanther (3 Mar 2012)

I've had the Baccetta Strada for a month now and done 450 miles on her. It's been a lot of (fast) fun. I have of course been pointed at, laughed at, and had a couple of car passengers film me on their mobiles.
It's a long way off (maybe Christams?), but I'm already thinking how nice it would be to add a trike to the collection. The thing that stopped me really looking into trikes was that one wouldn't fit down the side of the house, but looking at the weights of the sort of trike I'd be interested in (I like the Catrike 700/Ice Vortex/Windcheater Clubsport kind of machines) it wouldn't be a problem to carry it down the side or through the house?

Anyway since many on here seem to have loads of experience with 2 and 3 wheelers, can I pick your sizeable brains please?

1/Are trikes easy to carry (without breaking them down)?
2/Would a low trike be much slower than my high racer 2 wheeler overall?
3/The one thing I don't like about the Strada is setting off uphill (still wobble a tad). Obviously this wouldn't be a problem on a trike, but are there any disadvantages (other than weight/storage) to owning a trike over a 2 wheeler?
4/Other than the trikes I've mentioned above, are there any others that I should consider? I'm not bothered about off road ability, so I would be looking for fast, comfortable and 'nearly new' without spending silly money (under £2000).


----------



## byegad (3 Mar 2012)

1. Most are easy enough and the ones you mention the easiest of them all.
2. Yes, but you'll get more notice and more room from overtaking vehicles.
3. Your right hills are no problem, you can stop and restart with ease. You've mentioned the storage/access issue. Also the access to cycle tracks is harder, if you ride them at all, I don't!
4. See my signature for my trikes, the Trail is one I'd suggest foe you, three 406 tyres means only one size of tube needed. Mine, with BB7s cost me £1600 and I added barend changers myself so less than £1700 for it on the road. The seat folds down and makes it easier to get through doorways and passages.


----------



## starhawk (3 Mar 2012)

1. Well if you are not carrying them in a staircase it's really not that hard, if you are two carrying it then there are no problem at all
2: Well I average about 5 km/h faster on the trike then on my upright mountainbike
3. No disadvantages only advantages as I see it
4. Well my own experience is only the TRICE Q so I can't help you there


----------



## HovR (3 Mar 2012)

Seeing this post reminded me of something mentioned in your original recumbent researching thread - Cunobelin was right!


----------



## windmiller (3 Mar 2012)

I found the main advantage a trike has over 2 wheels is hills starts and somewhere to kip when you're knackered.
However they are not easy to carry through doorways etc. I got no more noticed than when I am riding a two wheeled recumbent. The freak factor while riding in the city is even greater than two wheels. This won't go away and you just have to bite the bullet grow thicker skin and ignore it.

On short to medium journeys they are about the same speed as an old dutch clunker. However on longer trips and fully loaded tours they come into their own and would be my vehicle of choice.


----------



## Tigerbiten (3 Mar 2012)

1:- It depends on what extras you add to the basic trike as to how heavy it is.
By extras I mean ..... Back rack, mud guards, side pods, fairing, etc, etc.
Its easy to add another 5-10 kg to the basic weight.

2:- Your probably looking at 10-15% slower overall. Thats the figure I've heard mentioned about the speed difference 3 wheels vs 2.
Its from slightly more rolling resistance, 3 wheels vs 2, slightly more air resistance due to the extra width and more weight to winch uphill.

3:- On a trike the main disadvantage is the extra width, but that can also be an advantage.
It's harder to filter in town due to the extra width, but then again it easier to take up a lane due to the extra width. So it works out very 50-50 on the question of width.

4:- ?? No idea


----------



## byegad (3 Mar 2012)

The 'extra' width is very little. my shoulders and elbows are the widest part of me when on two wheels. The trikes stick out all of 2 or 3 " on each side of my elbows on my Kettwiesel, which is the widest of my trikes. Not a lot in it!


----------



## Tigerbiten (3 Mar 2012)

byegad said:


> The 'extra' width is very little. my shoulders and elbows are the widest part of me when on two wheels. The trikes stick out all of 2 or 3 " on each side of my elbows on my Kettwiesel, which is the widest of my trikes. Not a lot in it!


I agree agree physicaly theres not much in it but on the road my trike rides a couple of feet wider than an upwrong.
On an upwrong if your wheels are one foot from the curb, then your sholder is another foot further out, add a couple of feet for the safety gap and thats a four foot space.
On my trike if my inside front wheel is one foot from the curb, the outside front wheel is another three feet further out, and a two foot safety gap and thats a six foot space needed.


----------



## byegad (3 Mar 2012)

True but I'd never run a two wheeler that close to the kerb/edge of road. In proctice I don't even notice the width of my trikes on the move.


----------



## ianrauk (3 Mar 2012)

I would sooo like a trike to add to my collection...3 uprights and a Bent. I borrowed Auntie Helen's hubbie Trice for a few months and had such a great blast with it. I would have bought it but for 2 things. 1: The storage problem 2: In London, a trike is not great in all the traffic.

If I did get a Trike it would be a Catrike 700... they look superb.


----------



## GrasB (3 Mar 2012)

BlackPanther said:


> 1/Are trikes easy to carry (without breaking them down)?
> 2/Would a low trike be much slower than my high racer 2 wheeler overall?
> 3/The one thing I don't like about the Strada is setting off uphill (still wobble a tad). Obviously this wouldn't be a problem on a trike, but are there any disadvantages (other than weight/storage) to owning a trike over a 2 wheeler?
> 4/Other than the trikes I've mentioned above, are there any others that I should consider? I'm not bothered about off road ability, so I would be looking for fast, comfortable and 'nearly new' without spending silly money (under £2000).


1) duno, never tried.
2) look around on 'bent riders online forum, there's a guy that's taken appart his performance on an upright, low racer & trike.
3) depends on the trike but there seems to be plenty of stories from tadpole riders getting too confident with the stability & in over their heads only to roll it. Oddly most reports show they tend to tip at slow speeds & high speeds but far less frequently at medium speeds.
4) take a trip to a decent dealer who holds good second hand stock. I doubt you'll find a Vortex or Windcheetah under your budget ('bents in general hold their value well which is good when selling buy bad when buying). I'd not discount old trikes, most of them are well cared for & there are some real gems out there.

I like the thought of a trike but I really feel like I'd just not use the trike because it's too slow for my speed obsession. A velo trike would be more 'me' but jumping straight into a velo from bikes seems a little excessive.


----------



## byegad (4 Mar 2012)

The only riders I've witnessed rolling a tadpole were asking for it. One tried to climb a 45 degree grass bank, stalled rolled backwards a few yards and then got full lock on while still on the 45 degrees. He rolled off the trike. Another, on the same ride tried to ride on two wheels, got the thing up on two wheels then grounded the rear rack (ICE rear racks are wide!)and on one wheel and the bottom of the rack went on his side into the hedge! Very funny!!!

Over on BROL there are a few reports of riders rolling their trikes. Mostly at very low speeds. My guess is this:- larger than average American turns handlebars full lock to execute dramatic U turn and is surprised when the trike rolls.

I've very occasionally lifted an inside wheel, usually on the QNT and going fast, I've in each case automatically reduced steering input and the wheel has dropped back onto the ground. Very controllable and not at all scary. As I tend to throw the QNT at corners with gay abandon the speed was very high for the corner each time so for me that's downhill to get the speed. I lean into the corner, the faster I'm going the further I lean. I'd suggest that you've got to be really trying hard to roll one.


----------



## TheDoctor (4 Mar 2012)

I've ridden a fair few 'bents now. Bikes I find a bit wobbly, some far more so than others. The first time I rode a trike I did 20 miles on it. No problem at all. They're certainly difficult to roll - I'd say you've got to be trying to get it onto two wheels and then overcooking it.
And they're not impossible to carry - Tdr1nka (formerly of this parish) used to keep a KMX in a flat which was down a flight of stairs.


----------



## starhawk (4 Mar 2012)

TheDoctor said:


> I've ridden a fair few 'bents now. Bikes I find a bit wobbly, some far more so than others. The first time I rode a trike I did 20 miles on it. No problem at all. They're certainly difficult to roll - I'd say you've got to be trying to get it onto two wheels and then overcooking it.
> And they're not impossible to carry - Tdr1nka (formerly of this parish) used to keep a KMX in a flat which was down a flight of stairs.


I have carried mine up and down from my flat, thats four flight of stairs, the second time I took it down it was uppgraded to an e-bike i.e. much heavier, the only tricky part was the door


----------



## GrasB (4 Mar 2012)

byegad, I thinking of rider gets used to the trike, gets complacent with its stability then just tries their luck. Yeah there seem to be a lot of low speed turning tight corners ending up on their side. These spills result in a heavily damaged ego but nothing of consequence. However I've also heard stories of riders tipping their trikes into medium tight corners at speed when it's wet/slippery, the trike slides before gripping again & then flips the trike, these are potentially dangerous situations.


----------



## tongskie01 (4 Mar 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JSTqIOORgI

this one you can't tip over.


----------



## byegad (4 Mar 2012)

I


tongskie01 said:


> View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JSTqIOORgI
> 
> this one you can't tip over.



'd guess someone has though!


----------



## TheDoctor (4 Mar 2012)

Now that I don't understand. If you want it to tilt, build a bike, surely?


----------



## tongskie01 (4 Mar 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrKlDhFEszQ&feature=related
for this reason....race as a trike. corner like a bike.


----------



## starhawk (5 Mar 2012)

A narrowtrack delta like that could definitely roll over so the tilting is compelled, but rolling over in a tadpole is more a matter of really going over the edge


----------



## markg0vbr (5 Mar 2012)

as a expert trike limit tester i can tell you, at speed you have got to be really be extreme to get one on its side even a narrow track trike, you naturally lean in to bends the faster you go, on some of my 20+mph 90 degree turns i do out rig just have my head and shoulder hanging of the inside edge of the seat.
if you do start to lift a wheel it is very controllable and natural to lessen the degree of the turn and the wheel just drops back down, i quite often get a light wheel 1 or 2 mm off the ground but i am doing daft speeds in to 90 degree turns.

coming down from stump cross cavern in full camping touring kit at over 40mph i have had to do a evasive swerve around a car reversing on to the road, first the left wheel was up then the right one, no big deal every thing soon settled down and did not feel out of control.

it tends to be slow speed manoeuvring with cambers and daft sharp steering in puts that end up with you laying on your side laughing like a loony they tend to be alcohol assisted.

i have flipped a trike over backwards; after pirouetting several times on water/ice and diesel down hill around 30mph, i hit a 9" curb rear wheel first, the wheel did not survive the impact but as in all my escapades sitting in a tadpole trike that hits every thing before i do, has saved me and i am made of glass apparently.

the average rider on any of the tadpoles, baring the really tall ones has to work hard to get one to lift a wheel never mind roll one.

the narrow tilting deleter trikes are for racing on very tight twisty tracks, you can really give them the beans all the way through the bends, other bikes even low racers have a hard time keeping with them. hear is the but for real life road use they are at best pointless at worst hard work.

rigid deltas with a higher centre of gravity on the other hand have to be ridden with a bit of respect, in a straight line or open sweeping bends they are faster than a tadpole but get in to the sharp tight turns and you can be off in a instant, to help with stability you will see the back wheels cantered in like on sports wheel chairs.


trikes are the ultimate touring bike long days in a comfortable chair totally relaxed looking around you.


----------



## arallsopp (5 Mar 2012)

*Are trikes easy to carry (without breaking them down)?*
Depends on the trike, the obstacles, and the carrier.

Compared to a (lowish) two wheeled bent, its a lot easier to walk with the trike (just pull it behind you using the rear end). 
When it comes to picking it up, an unfolded trike lets you put the CoG much closer to your body, which makes you less likely to topple over. 
A folded trike can be easier to get through a gap than a two wheeler (especially if the gap is restricted in both directions, eg. into a car boot), but they do weigh a bit more than a cost equivalent two wheel non folding version.
 
*Would a low trike be much slower than my high racer 2 wheeler overall?*
Depends on the trike, the terrain, and the rider.

Compared to a fast two wheeler on flat ground, yes, it'll probably be a bit slower. 
If you're unable to get the power down on the two wheeler due to instability / fear / surface, you may find the trike faster. 
If you spend a lot of time climbing and already rip down the descents, yes. 
 
*The one thing I don't like about the Strada is setting off uphill (still wobble a tad). Obviously this wouldn't be a problem on a trike, but are there any disadvantages (other than weight/storage) to owning a trike over a 2 wheeler?*
Depends on... oh.. .you get me by now 

Some people find trikes awkward to get into, especially if you can't get your legs behind the cruciform and the trike is very low. 
USS is more common on a trike, and tends to admit water into the brakes / gear cables. Nothing a bit of grease won't prevent, but hell to fix when it happens.
Trikes tend to ride a lot lower than two wheelers, so light placement and sight lines can be awkward. Not being able to see over the bonnet of a saloon car can be annoying when there's one to your right turning right, and you want to go left.
On a two wheeler, the wheels generally travel one behind the other, so missing a pot-hole / bottle / badger is simply a case of not steering directly towards it. Anything missed by the front will be missed by the back. On a trike, you've got THREE tracks instead of one. Getting around a pothole (which the rider in front might have dodged by moving 2" to the right) is a case of diverting a foot and half into the road, or putting it just inside your kerbside wheel and hoping it doesn't mash the back.
A trike is subject to tyre scrub if the alignment is out. Depending on the equipment (and camber of the road / wheels) you might find yourself getting through tyres quicker than you'd care for.
A trike is subject to brake steer. With the weight thrown onto the front wheels under braking, if you don't apply the anchors evenly, you can find yourself pulled to the side.
*Other than the trikes I've mentioned above, are there any others that I should consider?* 
Probably. Consideration is cheap.


----------



## byegad (6 Mar 2012)

Neither of my tadpoles have brake steer. Both will pull up straight with only one brake hard on, the steering input to keep it straight is so light it's hardly noticeable. My Kettwiesel suffers much more! Stability wise the Kett' with inclined rear wheels is as stable as my QNT. It took me a long tine, 3/4000 miles,to become comfortable with this.

Scrubbing is something that can be adjusted out, neither of my tadpoles had it from new and the QNT, with well over 7000 miles on it is till scrub free, if it did develop scrub the track rod ends are adjustable, just like a car, so it can be dialled out. The Kett suffered scrub when new as when you move the boom, you change the effective angle of the rear wheels, it's all down to the angle of the inclined wheels and the boom not being parallel to the ground. Again there are adjusters and I was able to get the rear wheels parallel again.


----------



## spennie (9 Mar 2012)

BlackPanther said:


> I've had the Baccetta Strada for a month now and done 450 miles on her. It's been a lot of (fast) fun. I have of course been pointed at, laughed at, and had a couple of car passengers film me on their mobiles.
> It's a long way off (maybe Christams?), but I'm already thinking how nice it would be to add a trike to the collection. The thing that stopped me really looking into trikes was that one wouldn't fit down the side of the house, but looking at the weights of the sort of trike I'd be interested in (I like the Catrike 700/Ice Vortex/Windcheater Clubsport kind of machines) it wouldn't be a problem to carry it down the side or through the house?
> 
> Anyway since many on here seem to have loads of experience with 2 and 3 wheelers, can I pick your sizeable brains please?
> ...


----------



## spennie (9 Mar 2012)

BlackPanther said:


> I've had the Baccetta Strada for a month now and done 450 miles on her. It's been a lot of (fast) fun. I have of course been pointed at, laughed at, and had a couple of car passengers film me on their mobiles.
> It's a long way off (maybe Christams?), but I'm already thinking how nice it would be to add a trike to the collection. The thing that stopped me really looking into trikes was that one wouldn't fit down the side of the house, but looking at the weights of the sort of trike I'd be interested in (I like the Catrike 700/Ice Vortex/Windcheater Clubsport kind of machines) it wouldn't be a problem to carry it down the side or through the house?
> 
> Anyway since many on here seem to have loads of experience with 2 and 3 wheelers, can I pick your sizeable brains please?
> ...


----------

