# Squats



## ShinSplint (30 Jan 2010)

I was just wondering what the competitive cyclist do in terms of weight training.

I personally have started squats recently. I started with standard squats without weight, but am building up gradually. Have to say it feels quite exhilirating and think it will be beneficial in terms of overall speed.

I also think it will help my running as well. Seems a versatile exercise.

If you do squats, how much weight to use, i'd like to know how many sets/reps etc, so I can try and come up with a good average workout.

Cheers


----------



## Rob3rt (30 Jan 2010)

Ive read a lot on here and other forums to do low or body weight for high reps. Personally I'd agree, I can barbell squat about 100kg for 3 sets of 8 and leg press a whole lot more (well I used to be able to, havent tried for a long time), but I am weak in terms of cycling and endurance so heavy weight probly isnt the way to go.

Body weight for 20-25 reps, then when thats to easy maybe do them one legged in a doorway? Or body weight jump squats?


----------



## davidg (30 Jan 2010)

on squats I do 3 sets of 20kg - 30 reps
also good in to set up on a box with the same leg 30 times, then the other leg...box/step should be twice your crank length high. I do this with 6 kg at the moment


----------



## ShinSplint (30 Jan 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> Ive read a lot on here and other forums to do low or body weight for high reps. Personally I'd agree, I can barbell squat about 100kg for 3 sets of 8 and leg press a whole lot more (well I used to be able to, havent tried for a long time), but I am weak in terms of cycling and endurance so heavy weight probly isnt the way to go.
> 
> Seems to make sense. I would imagine that having bigger, heavier legs it would make you a good sprinter, but not so good a climber.
> 
> ...



.


----------



## 02GF74 (31 Jan 2010)

I stopped going to the gym - should get my butt bsck in it - but I am sure weight training helped my running; just felt as I had more strength,

re: squatting, got up to 3 plates each side.... eeek!!!


----------



## ShinSplint (1 Feb 2010)

well, I put the bar up to 20 kg for a few sets of 12 reps today.

As far as weight lifting goes, it felt great ! I don't know why I didnt start these last year when I first got into cycling. I'm convinced that squat will help my cycling. I won't go any higher than 20kg though, I will just increase my reps.

Or would it be better to start with max reps, say 30, and lighter weight, say 10kg, and build up the weight each session?


----------



## walker (2 Feb 2010)

For cycling keep with the squats but you need to build into squat jumps


----------



## Rob3rt (2 Feb 2010)

ShinSplint said:


> well, *I put the bar up to 20 kg for a few sets of 12 reps today.*
> 
> As far as weight lifting goes, it felt great ! I don't know why I didnt start these last year when I first got into cycling. I'm convinced that squat will help my cycling. I won't go any higher than 20kg though, I will just increase my reps.
> 
> Or would it be better to start with max reps, say 30, and lighter weight, say 10kg, and build up the weight each session?



If it was an olympic bar (which most gyms use, the ones with the thick ends where the plates rest), the bar alone weights about 20kg so you may have been doing more weight than you thought  i.e 40kg if you added 20kg worth of plates to the bar.

02GF74 - 140kg? Impressive!


----------



## ShinSplint (2 Feb 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> If it was an olympic bar (which most gyms use, the ones with the thick ends where the plates rest), the bar alone weights about 20kg so you may have been doing more weight than you thought  i.e 40kg if you added 20kg worth of plates to the bar.
> 
> 02GF74 - 140kg? Impressive!



 nah, its only a cheapo bar from Argos, does the job though. The bar itself prob weighs 2-3 kg max.


----------



## Rob3rt (2 Feb 2010)

Ah... Ive got a cheapo weight set to, but the long bar wouldnt fit in my dads car to bring down to my new flat so im stuck with the weights and only dumbell length bars which are near useless, lol! Waste of effort!

I do recal being about 16-17 and deciding I wanted to bulk up for rugby so roll into nearest serious weight lifting gym in my home town, could barelly bench press 40kg, felt like an epic douche having like this huge long olympic bar with weeny 10kg weights on the end!


----------



## ShinSplint (2 Feb 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> Ah... Ive got a cheapo weight set to, but the long bar wouldnt fit in my dads car to bring down to my new flat so im stuck with the weights and only dumbell length bars which are near useless, lol! Waste of effort!
> 
> I do recal being about 16-17 and deciding I wanted to bulk up for rugby so roll into nearest serious weight lifting gym in my home town, could barelly bench press 40kg, felt like an epic douche having like this huge long olympic bar with weeny 10kg weights on the end!



 not a nice scenario. I guess we all have to start somewhere. I only bench approx 35-40 kg now, and i've been at it a few months, but its mainly for strength myself. It would be nice to bulk up a bit, butthe extra weight is not a good idea for cycling, which is my main thing.

Talk about commitment, I cycled in to work this morning IN THIS !


----------



## Dan B (2 Feb 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> Body weight for 20-25 reps, then when thats to easy maybe do them one legged in a doorway?


Do them one-legged without the doorway (i.e. you have to _balance_ on the leg you're squatting on) and I think you're far more likely to get a good workout without getting weird kneecap tracking problems due to muscle imbalances.

Sure, you won't be able to squat as low that way, but how useful is a 90 degree bend for cycling anyway?

(This is not medical advice, just a gut feel. Ask a physio)


----------



## Rob3rt (2 Feb 2010)

coruskate said:


> Do them one-legged without the doorway (i.e. you have to _balance_ on the leg you're squatting on) and I think you're far more likely to get a good workout without getting weird kneecap tracking problems due to muscle imbalances.
> 
> Sure, you won't be able to squat as low that way, but how useful is a 90 degree bend for cycling anyway?
> 
> (This is not medical advice, just a gut feel. Ask a physio)



I meant in the door so you can use your arm to help you balance (as gently or as much as needed) to stop yourself falling over not squatting with back against door frame, sorry if I wasnt clear, I see your point.

I dont know about the 90 degree bend not being any good for cycling, being able to explode out of 90 degree's (yes you do squats slowly and controlled on the most part but for sheer power you would explode upwards pushing your pelvis forward and tightening your core) then id imagine your ability to explode from less drastic angles to accelerate would be improved. Like you, this is just how I would imagine it to work. Could be completelly wrong.



ShinSplint said:


> It would be nice to bulk up a bit, butthe extra weight is not a good idea for cycling, which is my main thing.


Yeah, I have no desire to bulk up now, but when I played rugby union for my 6th form, I always felt a bit like a rake and wanted to bulk up a bit, these days, doing the opposite, not that I actualy managed to bulk up much at all back then, im still pretty puny.


----------



## bigjim (2 Feb 2010)

Squats are a core muscle exercise as well as thighs so ideal for cycling. I squat 70KG and bench press the same. I do not want to go any further as I am 14 stone now and don't want to drag any more weight up those hills. The gym has been my saviour this winter allowing me to work out while the bike has been sat in the garage looking out at the snow. Although cardio at the gym is so boring. Plus I only pay £26 a month as unfortunately I am over 55.


----------



## montage (2 Feb 2010)

Did a heavy weights session yesterday and a rowing session today - knees can cope with rowing better than cycling which is good, so may do more of that for fitness. Benching 75kg atm, but may try a 1 rep max test sometime this week - I'm intrigued. Would have done some cycling on the turbo tonight, but I would rather let myself recover for tomorrows swim and cycle.


----------



## 02GF74 (3 Feb 2010)

ShinSplint said:


> nah, its only a cheapo bar from Argos, does the job though. The bar itself prob weighs 2-3 kg max.




nope proper gym bar - 20 kg.

I reckon if I tried I could do more (they all say that! ) but I get a bit wobbly and out of breath after a few and feel, even with a belt, my back is getting a bit wobbly. I never really push myself to the limit due to risk of injury.

note to self - sort out gym membership.


----------



## jimboalee (4 Feb 2010)

Doing squats at home with freeweights is tricky.

First, you have to get the bar onto your shoulders. At the end, you have to get the bar off your shoulders and if you haven't got a crash mat, it can be noisey and ruin your floorboards.

To do squats, you have to load the bar with the weight to exercise both legs, perform a 'snatch' movement and sit the bar on your traps.

A better exercise for the home freeweight user is the Lunge, or 'Alternate lunges'. Half the weight on the bar and the leg moves out forward, just as in cycling. The knee doesn't go beyond 90 degrees and it works the back and obliques as well.


----------



## plank (12 Feb 2010)

I can squat 130kg for 3  

if you don't have any weights you could try this

http://www.beastskills.com/Pistol.htm

squats def help me in all aspects of cycling.


----------



## Damaged Hero (16 Feb 2010)

I am in agony today  Last night was leg night at the gym so we decided to step things up a bit.Leg extensions were first,upping the weight each set (4 sets).then it was Hack squats on a machine,easy enough.Then the bit i hate,Barbell squats but with the bar in front of you resting across your shoulders with your arms crossed (not sure of it's proper name).I find this way to uncomfortable and gave up.So it was decided we should finish off on the leg press machine,I did the following..

200 kg set of 6 (some assisted by friends )
150 kg set of 8
100 kg set of 8
50 kg set of 20

No rest between each set and you had to hold the press still while the plates were removed from the press !!!.

Woke this morning with very little stiffness,rode to work about 1.5 miles,easy enough.10 minuets into my delivery (I am a postie) my legs started to seize up on me.Tried as best as possible to stretch them as i walked around but made little difference.The ride home was hard,feel like my legs are bruised.

Plenty of rest now as i have my first club ride on Saturday.


----------



## Ricd11 (17 Feb 2010)

I agree with Rob3rt, 

My exercise has, up until recently, always consisted of running to warm up and then weight lifting. I'm not a big chap, 5'8 75kg, and I used to be able to squat 140kg. When i've been out cycling with my triathlete friend (only on cheap mtb) i'd struggle, but if i put my foot down i'd leave him for dust. So I'd say heavy squats are not the best for endurance cycling from my own experience.

Bodyweights would probably be more useful, and you can go on to try split squats, one leg, jump squates and sumo squats before having to pile on the weight.

Rich


----------



## Rob3rt (18 Feb 2010)

Damaged Hero said:


> I am in agony today  Last night was leg night at the gym so we decided to step things up a bit.Leg extensions were first,upping the weight each set (4 sets).then it was Hack squats on a machine,easy enough.Then the bit i hate,Barbell squats but with the bar in front of you resting across your shoulders with your arms crossed (not sure of it's proper name).I find this way to uncomfortable and gave up.So it was decided we should finish off on the leg press machine,I did the following..
> 
> 200 kg set of 6 (some assisted by friends )
> 150 kg set of 8
> ...



Maybe you have been over doing it trying to keep up with friends? Shouldnt be in agony.

If you find any exercise physically uncomfortable (assuming its not down to bad technique) you shouldnt do it. 

Also may I ask why do you do the hardest exercise last? Compound exercises should always be 1st after light warm-up in my opinion. Why tire yourself out on heavy leg extensions when you are about to follow it with an exercise relying on large muscle groups. You should do the compound 1st when you are fresh to give it maximum effort with reduced risk of a wobble or poor techique induced by fatigue. Afterwards you can use the safety of the machines for extensions and curls etc to ensure you are useing correct form without the worry of being fatigued.

Thats my opinion, I might be wrong, but I'd pretty much never try to do free weight squats last unless it was a light weight warm-down.


----------



## Rykard (18 Feb 2010)

Damaged Hero said:


> I am in agony today  Last night was leg night at the gym so we decided to step things up a bit.Leg extensions were first,upping the weight each set (4 sets).then it was Hack squats on a machine,easy enough.Then the bit i hate,Barbell squats but with the bar in front of you resting across your shoulders with your arms crossed (not sure of it's proper name).I find this way to uncomfortable and gave up.So it was decided we should finish off on the leg press machine,I did the following..
> 
> 200 kg set of 6 (some assisted by friends )
> 150 kg set of 8
> ...



Hope you are not like me, the real pain starts after 36 hours - almost on the dot....


----------



## Damaged Hero (18 Feb 2010)

Rob3rt said:


> Maybe you have been over doing it trying to keep up with friends? Shouldnt be in agony.
> 
> If you find any exercise physically uncomfortable (assuming its not down to bad technique) you shouldnt do it.
> 
> ...



We like to mix it up sometimes,but most of the time we would do the hardest exercise first.We did use a machine,there is no way i will ever be able to squat 200 kg 

I am wondering though if doing smaller heavy sets will benifit my riding,Or doing more reps and a smaller weight would increase my endurance ?


----------



## Rob3rt (19 Feb 2010)

From my understanding, heavy weight low reps good for sprinting and acceleration. Lower weight and higher reps better for endurance. I dont know though, Im a newby cyclist, and I dont do weights or try to improve individual area's of performance because I dont have a solid base to build on yet. 

I cycle, 2-3 20 mile rides a week(mainly for enjoyment not training) and 1 or 2 gym sessions on stationary bike consisting of 1 day intervals, 1 day just spinning for an hour followed by a run. Im not 100% consistant though.


----------



## plank (19 Feb 2010)

The way I think about it is if my max power is double everyone else its only half as much work to keep going at the same speed as them so endurance comes from there. 

You can improve power by lifting heavy weights. I got good progress with a the sets/reps at 5x5 where I didn't like the common approach of 3x8/12 very much.

Seems to work for me but I suppose there could be other factors in play.


----------

