# Not sure which to take



## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Ive been living the diet life for 6 months and ive lost 25kg and id be happy to lose another say 10, im quite broad and now i have matchstick arms a bit of fat around the middle and quite muscly legs(abnormal as the wife says).
So im now ready to bulk up a bit on the arms and chest and shoulders whilst still trying to lose wieght, so im now looking at what protein/recovery shake to take.

The list is as follows:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000PVT3...de=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B000PVT30M
http://www.garnellnutrition.com/acatalog/hpw.html
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/pro-peptide-2270g-advanced-protein-supplement.html/

Any ideas or recommendations.

Thx


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## defy-one (24 Nov 2012)

eat really well, with lots of protein and fresh vegetables in your diet. start some weight training. no need for shakes.


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## VamP (24 Nov 2012)

There is more protein in an average person's diet than the body can effectively convert to muscle. Unless your diet is abnormally low on protein, for some reason, forget the shakes and get an upper body workout regime going.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

defy-one said:


> eat really well, with lots of protein and fresh vegetables in your diet. start some weight training. no need for shakes.


I go to the gym 3 times a week, and i ride between 70-90 miles a week and i eat on average 1800 cals a day before exercise.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (24 Nov 2012)

Just do the training. Shakes are too pricey and plenty of normal food includes enough protein.


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)

If you have a good diet you do not need supplements, just start doing upper body routines.
You do not need much and can even do it with no weights..
http://www.topendsports.com/fitness/home-no-gym.htm
http://www.projectswole.com/conditioning/the-no-gym-workout-routine/
i have one of these....
http://www.amazon.com/Weider-Total-Body-Works-5000/dp/B000NPWVPE
many like kettlebells
http://greatist.com/fitness/workout-kettlebell-exercises/


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> Just do the training. Shakes are too pricey and plenty of normal food includes enough protein.


I consume on average 180g a day of protein and thats basically a loaded chicken lunch, but eating fish and chicken ever day sometimes 2-3 times is pricey.


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

You realise that chicken and fish are not the only source's of protein right?


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

As i said i go to the gym daily and ride 70-90 miles a week, so exercise isnt a problem, also my thighs ache constantly and this is also a reason i want a recovery shake.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> You realise that chicken and fish are not the only source's of protein right?


Yeah i know that but i have a busy day so chicken breasts, eggs, fish etc is easy to eat on the road.


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## VamP (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> As i said i go to the gym daily and ride 70-90 miles a week, so exercise isnt a problem, also *my thighs ache constantly* and this is also a reason* i want* a recovery shake.


 
You probably need to take a look at how you're riding, but adding protein to your diet isn't going to solve this. However, if you *want* a recovery shake, that's another matter, and you should rush out and get one. Any one will do.


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Yeah i know that but i have a busy day so chicken breasts, eggs, fish etc is easy to eat on the road.


 
I don't see how Chicken, Egg's and Fish are any easier to eat than nut's and grains (Quinoa is a good one), bean's, lentils and legumes etc


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> I don't see how Chicken, Egg's and Fish are any easier to eat than nut's and grains (Quinoa is a good one), bean's, lentils and legumes etc


I cant imagine Quinoa, beans and lentals taste nice cold


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)

milk, perfect recovery drink and cheaper.
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/the-benefits-of-milk-25698/
What stretches are you doing ? what sort of work out are you doing with regards to weight lifted, number of sets and repititions.
If your going to the gym anyway why not talk to the instructors with regards what you want ?

With regards to body shape as long as your not like this i should not worry to much.....


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)

Just a thought are you a spinner or a grinder and is your seat height optimal?
I find if my seat is a bit low and i grind to much my legs just ache .


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

cyberknight said:


> Just a thought are you a spinner or a grinder and is your seat height optimal?
> I find if my seat is a bit low and i grind to much my legs just ache .


Streching is just basic stuff like touching toes and heel to arse stretches.
I generally do less reps and more sets(3) on top and more reps and 2 sets on my legs, the guy at the gym isnt all that ive asked but doesnt seem to have a clue.
What do you mean spinner or grinder, if its what i think it is im slightly more a spinner but on hills i generally change up and combine sitting and standing.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

If you're on this site, you're probably a cyclist. If you're doing big miles you will need extra protein if you want to bulk up your upper body as well. It's a choice between eating more lean protein, of drinking shakes. Your call. You won't need vast amounts, about a gram for every Kg of your weight, even if you're 'lifting 3 or 4 hours a day. Thats from me, ex body builder turned power lifter, who went from 44 to 53" chest in a year.

Before getting too excited you need to do a bit of research, find out what your basic somatotype is. Establishing that can save you a phenomenal amount of effort and work as you can vastly better tailor your workout.


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## lulubel (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> So im now ready to bulk up a bit on the arms and chest and shoulders whilst still trying to lose wieght


 
Drago will probably be able to say more on this, with his bodybuilding background, but this part of your first post jumped out at me. It's my understanding that you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. One requires a calorie deficit and the other requires a surplus.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

It's quite complex, as you also have intra-muscular fat which affects muscle bulk and is not a bad thing at all. You can lose fat and gain _lean_ muscle mass at the same time, but it isn't going to happen without some planning, effort and commitment.

I know you're probably not into being a 260lb meathead like I used to be (hence my nickname, Drago, but I'm now a mere 242ish) but if you want to gain muscle tone and just a more pleasant shape then get hold of a copy of Arnold Schwarzeneggers Encyclopaedia of Modern Body Building. A superb read where he discusses general fitness, aerobic exercise, diet, psychology, the 3 main somatotypes and 80 odd sub-types, and a host of other subjects related to progressive resistance training. 

I don't know your somatotype or what you current dimensions are so I couldn't really recommend anything more specific at this point.

PS, I don't have any pics to hand but I've changed my avatar back just for you


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Ive read so much stuff thats im starting to confuse myself, id like advice from real people who have try it.
@Drago all i am is a cyclist to the point i sold my car just so i can ride, my plan is to do atleast 1 100 mile ride a month next year.
Id swap arms anyday mate, mines like twiglets to yours, ill be ordering that Arnie book from Amazon tonight. cheers


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Good man. It's available is a Kindle download too. It's a seriously thick book, but well worth investing the time to read. Digest that and you won't waste an ounce of effort or a minute of time on anything that doesn't work.

PS, thanks for the compliment - that photo was taken about 3 months after elbow reconstruction surgery, so IIRC I was down to about 17.5" upper arms. 21" at my peak, I hover around 18" now. Never used steroids and if I'm honest was never that careful with my diet back in the day. 2 hours a day in the gym, 6 days out of 7, but even then I was never going to be a serious amateur competitor, hence making the sideways move into 'lifting after a friend got me into it. No feeling on Earth like benching over a fifth of a ton!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Take This multiply with one of These then -500

Register with/download some form of app like myfitnesspal. Use this to gauge just where your calorie intake is. Don't count to the nearest cal,but use it for a few weeks until you can look at food and think, yep that's xxx calories. Nomnom

Ride your bike.

If you really must supplement then do it, but remember it is a supplement to a diet, not a diet itself.

ps: bulkpowders.co.uk or myprotein.co.uk are far cheaper than any of those links.

pps: remember that squats will not make you a better cyclist.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Take This multiply with one of These then -500
> 
> Register with/download some form of app like myfitnesspal. Use this to gauge just where your calorie intake is. Don't count to the nearest cal,but use it for a few weeks until you can look at food and think, yep that's xxx calories. Nomnom
> 
> ...


Ive been using my fitness pal for 5-6 months and its helped and it has me at 1800 cals a day and that calculator you linked was 1566 cals.

Im still going to stick to the App to lose weight but i want to bulk up a bit, i just dont want to buy the wrong shake as i want it to aid recovery to.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

You've done something wrong tbh


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> You've done something wrong tbh


Like ?

Oops does 2702 sound like it


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Like ?


Did you make sure to tick the "male" bit?

Even 1800 cals a day is incredibly incredibly low. Not much more than the average womans intake before exercise is a factor!


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## Andrew_P (24 Nov 2012)

Seriously, read Arnie's book as training advice? He was souped up on the gear, and serious amounts of it.

It takes time, lots and lots of time if you are doing loads of cardio and restricting your diet as well.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Did you make sure to tick the "male" bit?
> 
> Even 1800 cals a day is incredibly incredibly low. Not much more than the average womans intake before exercise is a factor!


Excuse me im just a bit dense its 2702.
My average actual net is 1500 after exercise etc


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Excuse me im just a bit dense its 2702.
> My average actual net is 1500 after exercise etc


2702 before or after deficit? I'm guessing @40yo it's after but I want to be sure.

If your net is 1500 after exercise, you need to eat at least 500 back. That's a massive deficit otherwise.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> 2702 before or after deficit? I'm guessing @40yo it's after but I want to be sure.


It was after yeah, so thats saying im 1000 cals a day down


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

LOCO said:


> Seriously, read Arnie's book as training advice? He was souped up on the gear, and serious amounts of it.
> 
> It takes time, lots and lots of time if you are doing loads of cardio and restricting your diet as well.


Yes, very seriously. Arnie is scornful of the posh equipment and goes into great detail about the importance of diet, cardio work (usually cycling or running for body builders), rest, and a whole host of stuff. It's a very serious piece of work indeed.

You also need to read his biography where he goes into great detail about his steroid usage. During the first half of his career it was legal and he'd basically walk into his GPs surgery and ask nicely for the jabs. By the time he came out of retirement to compete for his 6th Olympia title it was outlawed.

I wouldn't take advice on muscle building from someone who hadn't got any, and I wouldn't expect our OP to, hence referring him to perhaps the seminal tome on the subject.

Steroid use is seriously misunderstood by most laymen. It goes on a lot and in 8 years of hanging about proper gyms (not modern fitness clubs) I've seen it a plenty among amateurs of non competitive types such as meatheads, doormen, etc. it's rarely used in proper fompetitivr circles because its physiological effects are so easy for a judge to spot. I could tell a regular juice user with 90% accuracy just by looking at them, so imagine what a judge will spot.

Fortunately, its not illegal to possess for personal use so I don't gave to get arsey when I see it about, which is a fair amount among the lower echelon and non-competitive builders. I just thank god Synthol hadn't caught on here the way it has in the US.


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## Diggs (24 Nov 2012)

This may be worth a view as well. I've not purchased it yet myself, don't have to be Graeme to know I really need to cut down on the food and alcohol first but in interviews I've heard some interesting ideas from him on various aspects from breathing to diet http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Obree-W...82WC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353789198&sr=8-1


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## Andrew_P (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> Yes, very seriously. Arnie is scornful of the posh equipment and goes into great detail about the importance of diet, cardio work (usually cycling or running for body builders), rest, and a whole host of stuff. It's a very serious piece of work indeed.
> 
> You also need to read his biography where he goes into great detail about his steroid usage. During the first half of his career it was legal and he'd basically walk into his GPs surgery and ask nicely for the jabs. By the time he came out of retirement to compete for his 6th Olympia title it was outlawed.
> 
> I wouldn't take advice on muscle building from someone who hadn't got any, and I wouldn't expect our OP to, hence referring him to perhaps the seminal tome on the subject.


He was till on them in the Terminator days along with other film stars.


Agree that OP should concentrate on core weight training, also he doesn't really need to read any huge books on this.

The sad fact is unless he is chemically enhanced he will not be able to shed the 10kg of fat in exchange for muscle. Every Bodybuilder, or strength athelte will be carrying fat and probably increasing fat during a bulking up cycle. As you know the images of Arnie at his very best are post some very hard and somewhat dangerous cutting cycles.

It soon goes when you get old and stop though!!


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

Arnie used to pop dianabol(methandrostenolone) like daily vitamins! However, IMO, this does not discredit the man! I think you need to consider steriod usage within bodybuilding in the right context, in competition, you can safely assume the athlete's are juiced unless it is a natural body building competition. Look at the Olympia winner's the last few years, they are jacked to the eyeballs! But it is understood that this is the case.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Core weight training? What are you in about?

Before he does anything he needs to understand his body type. This will affect how he approaches both his diet and training.

If he's an endo-mesomorph like me his body will respond more effectively to heavier weights, medium reps and sets. If his somatotype is ectomorphic he'll do better lighter weights, higher reps to exhaustion and more sets. Just one example of a fundamental factor to account for before picking up a weight.

And then there are various techniques to make a workout more effective, such as counting down to exhaustion, ballistic lifts on major muscle groups etc. there are dozens of tricks and techniques that make a workout far more effective and if our OP understands his musculature and utilises these properly he'll achieve in 2 workouts a week what just chucking a few weights about on 'core exercises' will achieve in 6 sessions a week.

Just wandering into a gym and flinging a few weights around in some 'core' exercises won't get him very far. What weight or resistance? How many sets and reps are optimum for your body type and your ultimate goal?

It's always funny when people with no muscle think they know best about how to go about acquiring it.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Diggs said:


> This may be worth a view as well. I've not purchased it yet myself, don't have to be Graeme to know I really need to cut down on the food and alcohol first but in interviews I've heard some interesting ideas from him on various aspects from breathing to diet http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Obree-W...82WC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353789198&sr=8-1


Worth a read for it's hilarity. As for sound training/diet advice it's just the ramblings of a troubled man, zero science involved.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

LOCO said:


> Agree that OP should concentrate on core weight training, also he doesn't really need to read any huge books on


Just core? Nothing else? Why?

Any gym instructor/pt recommending "just core" would be sacked on the spot.


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## Andrew_P (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> It's always funny when people with no muscle think they know best about how to go about acquiring it.


I think you will find the three main body types are, Ectomorph, Mesomorph and Endomorph. But I would say again he does want to be a bodybuilder, so just concentrate on weight training using the basic excercises and mixing high rep with a couple of heavy weight low rep.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

There's basically no such thing as core weight training. That's a description so vague as to be meaningless.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> There's basically no such thing.


I'm pretty sure, LOCO shouldn't be giving advice.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

According to this im more Endomorph i think.
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/expert-guides/fat-loss#5
All i take are CLA softgels(not sure if they work), im not looking at getting like the hulk just a decent size ad to get my strength back, the main thing im interested in is cycling i want the stamina an strength to do long rides, and to not look like sausage meat in a skin(lycra).


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## Andrew_P (24 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Just core? Nothing else? Why?
> 
> Any gym instructor/pt recommending "just core" would be sacked on the spot.


Core as in do flat bench presses and not inclines & declines. Do the same with flyes just flat, concentrate on the larger muscle groups, as the smaller ones in that area will be used in the flat version don't do leg curls do squats etc..


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

LOCO said:


> Core as in do flat bench presses and not inclines & declines. Do the same with flyes just flat, concentrate on the larger muscle groups, as the smaller ones in that area will be used in the flat version don't do leg curls do squats etc..


Go away.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Core as in taking pap. How do you know how may sets and reps are effective for you, or do you just count to 10 like most of the gym monkeys?

Please forgive me, but if I'm to maintain my current 54" chest and 35" waist I don't think I'll be be taking advice from you.

Andy, this is too complex a topic to give comprehensive advice in just one post so please do read properly round the subject, and go to a gym for a chat. If you're sincere and want advice no one will take the pith.

If you are ectomorphic you may benefit from higher reps, perhaps 12 to 15 a set. The goal is to be reaching muscular exhaustion on your final rep when lifting about 75% of your maximum lifting weight. 

Perhaps 15 sets per body part, 2 or 3 different exercises for each body part. Depending on how your body responds and how big you want to get then 2 or 3 general all round sessions a week may suffice, but if you want big gains you may have to go more often and split the routine.

I'm guessing you don't want to be like Dorian Yates and just want a bit of tone and bulk to harden up a little. Am I right?


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

Play nice............... DO SQUATS (maybe listen to some thrash metal for inspiration)................. climb hills!

Oh........ and don't forget to don your lycra and FLEXXXXXXX!


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Squats are awesome, as is Heavy Metal in the gym!


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

I havent tried squats yet ive been doing leg presses, is there much difference ?


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

What is your favourite sub-genre of metal for listening too whilst squating? Bro-core?


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> I havent tried squats yet ive been doing leg presses, is there much difference ?


Chalk and cheese differences.


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> I havent tried squats yet ive been doing leg presses, is there much difference ?


Fundamentally, no. Squats are better as ultimately you can shift more weight and the extra work you managing the balance gives a secondary workout to a wide range of muscles. My best is 640lbs, which I thought was great til I discovered that's barely half the World record.



Rob3rt said:


> What is your favourite sub-genre of metal for listening too whilst squating? Bro-core?


Had worked my way though QOTSA catalogue. If the Doc green lights me to get back to it I've got all 5 SOAD albums on stand by for a good sweat.


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> Fundamentally, no. Squats are better as ultimately you can shift more weight and the extra work you managing the balance gives a secondary workout to a wide range of muscles.* My best is 640lbs, which I thought was great til I discovered that's barely half the World record.*
> 
> 
> *Had worked my way though QOTSA catalogue. If the Doc green lights me to get back to it I've got all 5 SOAD albums on stand by for a good sweat.*


 
I believe my gf's brother may hold the junior world record for squating, or maybe that is deadlift. Edit: It is both, plus world record for combined squat, deadlift and benchpress. Along with a load of British records.

I recon you should whack some Emmure on and then scream "I am going to MAX MY PUMP" while stomping around trying to look mean!


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

My regular training partner is into his 1980's hair-band lightweight heavy metal. Practicing my clean to Europe just is isnt quite the same somehow.

Sum 41s Half Hour of Power is one of my favourite workout albums.

We have a laugh as well. About a year ago 3 or 4 of us were training in the gym at work. Towards the end of our workout a female officer we know cane in and started on a bit if cardio. We had MTV on and Yello's "Oh Yeah" came on, the Duff Man theme. We instantly started posing, Stay Hungry style in time with the music. Let me tell you, I never thought it was possible to crash an exercise bike but she laughed so much she somehow managed it.


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)

Have to agree with drago on the training ,
Their are to many variables with regards body type, what you want etc to go into a detailed training program over the internet.
I was a gym instructor but its been nearly 20 years since i did it full time so a lot of time and change has happened and these days i can only give general pointers.


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> My regular training partner is into his 1980's hair-band lightweight heavy metal. Practicing my clean to Europe just is isnt quite the same somehow.
> 
> Sum 41s Half Hour of Power is one of my favourite workout albums.
> 
> *We have a laugh as well.* About a year ago 3 or 4 of us were training in the gym at work. Towards the end of our workout a female officer we know cane in and started on a bit if cardio. We had MTV on and Yello's "Oh Yeah" came on, the Duff Man theme. We instantly started posing, Stay Hungry style in time with the music. Let me tell you, I never thought it was possible to crash an exercise bike but she laughed so much she somehow managed it.


 
You just voided all of your training effort!


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)

Drago said:


> My regular training partner is into his 1980's hair-band lightweight heavy metal. Practicing my clean to Europe just is isnt quite the same somehow.
> 
> Sum 41s Half Hour of Power is one of my favourite workout albums.
> .


Rammstein ftw


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## Rob3rt (24 Nov 2012)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPEBaQiAIM


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## cyberknight (24 Nov 2012)




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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

Sorry Andy, just re read this on a bigger screen and you think ENDOmorph? My bad.

Cardio is especially important in this scenario so keep the bike riding going, watch your diet in accordance with your current size, activity and weight loss goals.

You may find it easier to bulk on lean muscle mass, so shorter sets in the 7-10 rep range but with a greater weight may suit you better.

Very simplistic, but if you are endo I reckon not too far off beam. But you know yourself better than I do so do some research.

Once you're into it a bit and you're targeting specific body parts or muscle groups then we'll speak again.

And to answer your original question I use Matrix Or Gorilla whey, about 1 gram for every kg if body weight daily. While youre still in the weight loss phase id advise half that amount as it will bectricyvto accurately assess a beneficial portion, and any excess will just be wasted. As a rough guide, the crappier it tastes the less sugar it has and the better it will be.

I also use L-Glutamine, but I don't use creatine.

Good luck feller. You've made some impressive weight loss 'gains' and its natural you'll now want to sculpt yourself just a little.


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

I was looking on myprotein and came across L Carnitine and i thought about going back onto BCAA's, and http://www.amazon.co.uk/USN-Protein-Strawberry-Growth-Repair/dp/B000PVT30M


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## Drago (24 Nov 2012)

I'd be happy taking that. It looks a touch pricy, but they say its 'fortified' with L Glutamine, though they don't say how much.


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## mrandmrspoves (24 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> I cant imagine Quinoa, beans and lentals taste nice cold


....or hot!!!!


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## Andy_G (24 Nov 2012)

Ive seen it for £45 so i might give it a shot, shopping list on Myprotein is now, Omega 3, thermopure, BCAA, L Carnitine, L Glutamine


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## Rob3rt (25 Nov 2012)

Another one bites the dust!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

Oh FFS. 

Supplements are not the answer


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## VamP (25 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Oh FFS.
> 
> Supplements are not the answer


 
You're right, but I think you're wasting your time, he has made his mind up


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

VamP said:


> You're right, but I think you're wasting your time, he has made his mind up


Can't save them all unfortunately


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## Andy_G (25 Nov 2012)

If supps are not the answer why do they sell them, not all of us have time and work conditions to make the perfect menu.


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## black'n'yellow (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> If supps are not the answer why do they sell them, .


 
seriously..?

I'm selling a bottle of 'instant fitness' drink here. It is a clear, tasteless liquid and comes in a 1 litre Evian bottle. Yours for £49.99. Let me know if you're interested...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> If supps are not the answer why do they sell them, not all of us have time and work conditions to make the perfect menu.


Because people are lazy. They inherently want results without putting in effort.


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## Andy_G (25 Nov 2012)

Blank n yellow, you really need to grow up, yet again your full of crap

TMHNET, so now im a mug and i dont put in any effort, are you for real. i do an average of 1.5 hrs of cardio a day and weights 3 times a week, ive stuck to a controlled diet for 6 months and lost 4 stone, you really do need to think before you speek.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Blank n yellow, you really need to grow up, yet again your full of crap
> 
> *TMHNET, so now im a mug and i dont put in any effort, are you for real*. i do an average of 1.5 hrs of cardio a day and weights 3 times a week, ive stuck to a controlled diet for 6 months and lost 4 stone, you really do need to think before you speek.


Are you for real?



Andy_G said:


> Ive seen it for £45 so i might give it a shot, _*shopping list on Myprotein is now, Omega 3, thermopure, BCAA, L Carnitine, L Glutamine*_


 
If you can lose 4st in 6 months, why are you now adding the above to a shopping list? You can lose weight without those and have done.

What's wrong with actual food sources of carnitine? Beef/pork/chicken being the highest concentrations per 100g

What is wrong with dietry sources of glutamine? Which are also very similar sources as carnitine, but includes dairy,eggs,fish,wheat,cabbage,beets,beans,spinach and parsley

What is wrong with coffee,cinnamon or peppers? Which is pretty much what is in thermopure

Why do you need omega3? What about oily fish? nut and plant based oils like canola and sunflower

Does arriving in a jar make it more appealing?


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## black'n'yellow (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Blank n yellow, you really need to grow up, yet again your full of crap


 
ok - you drive a hard bargain. What about £39.99..? Final offer...


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## Andy_G (25 Nov 2012)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> Are you for real?
> 
> 
> 
> If you can lose 4st in 6 months, why are you now adding the above to a shopping list? You can lose weight without those and have done.


Because I'm now struggling to lose the last 1-1.5 stone I want to. I've stepped up my cardio and my cals are lower and I wanted some extra help. 
Black n yellow, just crawl back under your rock, you never have anything constructive to say its just sarcasm and ignorance, but at least you have school tomorrow so you might learn something there.


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## black'n'yellow (25 Nov 2012)

£25..?

Seriously though, I'm not the mug falling for all that supplement crap...you are. In 20 years of racing, I've never felt the need for them. But you're obviously different...


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Because I'm now struggling to lose the last 1-1.5 stone I want to. I've *stepped up my cardio* and *my cals are lower* and I wanted some extra help.


There is your problem, not one that is cured by getting a credit card out on MP

I edited my previous post. I'd like you to tackle the answers.

ps: Don't dismiss BNY soo readily. Someday you might realise that he ultimately has a point.


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## Rob3rt (25 Nov 2012)

You piss will be some of the most nutritious known to man! Maybe you can sell it to recoup the cost of the supps!


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## lulubel (25 Nov 2012)

Andy_G said:


> Because I'm now struggling to lose the last 1-1.5 stone I want to. I've stepped up my cardio and my cals are lower and I wanted some extra help.


 
I'm not slamming supplements here (before you assume I am) - I use a protein supplement myself - however, if your weight loss has slowed, increasing cardio and cutting food intake further (thereby increasing your calorie deficit) is not the answer. The answer is to reduce your calorie deficit by eating more.

Bodies are funny things. They respond best when you're subtle and "trick" them into doing what you want. Create a big calorie deficit and you'll trigger a warning to your physiological system that there's a famine starting, with the result that your body will hang on to every possible ounce of fat. Create a small calorie deficit and you won't trigger that warning, and your weight will keep going down.


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## Rob3rt (25 Nov 2012)

You are wrong, you need thermop*ss!


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## black'n'yellow (25 Nov 2012)

Rob3rt said:


> You are wrong, you need thermop*ss!


 
Love it - that's the new name for my 'instant fitness' drink. Price is now back at £49.99 again..


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (25 Nov 2012)

lulubel said:


> I'm not slamming supplements here (before you assume I am) - I use a protein supplement myself - however, if your weight loss has slowed, increasing cardio and cutting food intake further (thereby increasing your calorie deficit) is not the answer. The answer is to reduce your calorie deficit by eating more.


Ultimately supplements are a bad thing if you have no real requirement for them and most deserve to be slammed. The OP in this case clearly has no need for most if not all of them (_maybe_ at a push a multivit / omega 369 cap would be acceptable practice)

To show that you can lose weight shows that you have done something right but it comes down to simple maths again. Upping activity and lowering intake cannot be done - you can't expect your car to do 500 miles on 400miles worth of diesel, it'll cough and splurt to a stop. But to make such a drastic change then immediately turn to supplements really is a poor choice doomed to failure. Nobody seems to consider what happens when your last £14.99 per month supply runs out. (it'll all go back on again!)



> Bodies are funny things. They respond best when you're subtle and "trick" them into doing what you want. Create a big calorie deficit and you'll trigger a warning to your physiological system that there's a famine starting, with the result that your body will hang on to every possible ounce of fat. Create a small calorie deficit and you won't trigger that warning, and your weight will keep going down.


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