# The harder I train, the slower I get



## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

I think I may be overdoing it, with all this nice weather and the like, I feel my average speed is dropping off, though Strava keeps telling me I got a PB here and there, I can see the stats for myself. 

My weekly average is now 15mph, last week was 16, the week before a bit higher/

Been averaging about 70-100 miles of training a week.and about 2000-3000 ft of climbing a week, and generally taking just one rest day off the bike.

I usually go out every lunchtime for an hour, finding some hills and climbs in the southern Chilterns.
I ride to and from work as-well, 5 miles to, 5 back.
I try and do 30+ miles on the weekend.

I think I am fatigued. I've done 1200 miles since Jan 1st

I'm training for the Dragon Ride (8th June) and the Prudential Ride 100 (August).

Perhaps I need to take a few days out, but I just can't stop, with all the nice weather


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## ianrauk (16 Apr 2014)

I seem to be suffering the opposite.
I have done over 3000 miles to date this year so far and am getting faster on both my commute and on my long distance rides. I guess it's due to the fact of better weather and less heavy cycle clothing.


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## DWiggy (16 Apr 2014)

My average seems to miraculously improve with the better weather...not sure why though? and my rides get longer  
Just make sure your eating enough of the right stuff and rest when your tired.


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## Rob3rt (16 Apr 2014)

70-100 miles a week is pretty much nothing in my opinion and you unlikely to be over trained on that. Depending of course on what you have jumped up from, but even still, I would be doubtful...

Also, what are you doing in those 70-100 miles...


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## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

Maybe it's because i'm trying to do more climbs lately.

Summary of last week
103 miles, 3200 ft climbing, speeds, 16 - 16.6mph average
Gradients, just Cat 4 
Longest, 32 miles, 1300 ft, av 16mph.

Oh, i'm 45 in two weeks time.

I have a Alux Giant Defy - would love a carbon but no $$$ at the moment.


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## Rob3rt (16 Apr 2014)

That tells us literally nothing...

Durations, intensities, this is the information needed!


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## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

From the limited data I get from my basic strava account 

The Sunday ride I averaged 132W Power, with 951kJ Energy Output. My max power was 265W on the ups.

My lunch ride today was 123W with 450kJ output (I did 10 miles this morning too)

Compare this to two weeks ago...actually, no real difference, usually averaging 132W. 

I just think I'm not getting the rest, I'm on my bike every day - Is this OK ?


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## vickster (16 Apr 2014)

If you think you need to rest,rest. No one can tell you really, unless you start to train with a coach say

Average speeds are a bit of a rubbish measure of fitness as they are affected by so many variables other than your legs, traffic, lights, wind, state of roads ridden


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## Rob3rt (16 Apr 2014)

Try resting more if you think you are not getting enough rest...

You are averaging 10-14 miles a day though.

BTW, power figures on Strava may as good as made up!


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## Andrew_P (16 Apr 2014)

How long have you been cycling? How fit where you before you started cycling?


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## ColinJ (16 Apr 2014)

Er, you have noticed that it has been very windy for the past couple of weeks ...?


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## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

Started cycling again 5 years ago ! This means my bike is also five years old, which means I need to buy a new one! 
Before I started this up again, I did nothing, except have kids (which is good exercise).

Yes, the wind is/was a factor.
Strava Stats, bit random - check (I need a Powermeter!)

It will come good. I will take a few days out - and Monday - i'm doing 60! yipeee


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## vickster (16 Apr 2014)

Why do you need to buy a new bike? Maybe get some better wheels for it?

Maybe join a club run, should see averages increase

I am doing ride 100 too, but not able to train, I've done about 50 miles since mid February  so you are way ahead of me...I am ambitiously hoping for a 14mph average, but I do have a carbon bike


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (16 Apr 2014)

vickster said:


> Why do you need to buy a new bike? Maybe get some better wheels for it?


Bar tape will improve it too


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## vickster (16 Apr 2014)

Eh?!


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## Rob3rt (16 Apr 2014)

My bike is 4-5 years old too. Not sure the relevance of that tbh. Bikes last a long time....


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## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

I want carbon, i need carbon


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## vickster (16 Apr 2014)

Interest free credit

Have you ridden carbon? I think a good alu/carbon or steel/carbon frame is as comfortable...for me anyhow, and I now have one of each


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## Andrew_P (16 Apr 2014)

Richard Lawrence said:


> From the limited data I get from my basic strava account
> 
> The Sunday ride I averaged 132W Power, with 951kJ Energy Output. My max power was 265W on the ups.
> 
> ...



I can't see 100 miles over 7 days = overtraining.


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## Rooster1 (16 Apr 2014)

I have ridden carbon, was lovely. 

I think I am just having a bad week. 

I will do 150 next week


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## vickster (16 Apr 2014)

Try something else, have a swim or run perhaps


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## uclown2002 (16 Apr 2014)

Overtraining my arse!
If you want a day or 2 off then take them, but I very much doubt you need to rest given your distance and frequency of rides.


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## Stu Plows (16 Apr 2014)

Mong out on the settee with a dirty Kebab on yer lap and a can of lager on the coffee table! It's what I do when I feel like that. 

If you feel like you are tired, take some rest time, you'll soon miss the riding. Eat the right foods, don't under-eat, don't under-drink, hydrate well. When I am feeling like I have done too much, my concentration seems to dwindle away when at work. If you are going in search of hills, your average will drop, it's normal.


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## JasonHolder (16 Apr 2014)

Hi
100miles a week is quite nothing honestly, unless it was either one or two rides. Fatigue is possible though when people start searching out hills due to time restraints. Lots of red zone and you dont even realise how much rest you need. However*3000ft is nothing also.

Forget the average speed thing. I wouldnt even look at it. 
Summary.
Most mear mortals don't eat enough carb calories and drink enough H2o. Or get enough sleep. Simple as that.


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## david k (16 Apr 2014)

ianrauk said:


> I seem to be suffering the opposite.
> I have done over 3000 miles to date this year so far and am getting faster on both my commute and on my long distance rides. I guess it's due to the fact of better weather and less heavy cycle clothing.


ive noticed an improvement of 1mph average on a regular ride yesterday even though i hadnt ridden for a few weeks and purposely took it easy? i can only assume it was the weather and reduction in clothing


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## ayceejay (16 Apr 2014)

Unscientific training methods lead to fatigue. I don't think the distance or the average speed is excessive but if you are averaging 20mph at the start and 5 at the end to arrive at this average you may want to look at that.


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## StuAff (16 Apr 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> Hi
> 100miles a week is quite nothing honestly, unless it was either one or two rides. Fatigue is possible though when people start searching out hills due to time restraints. Lots of red zone and you dont even realise how much rest you need. However*3000ft is nothing also.
> 
> Forget the average speed thing. I wouldnt even look at it.
> ...


+1 to this (and most of the above comments from m'learned friends). I'll hopefully pass 2k miles for the year so far tomorrow- and that little ride, on its own, will be rather more than the OP's average week. Last week was 240 miles total, 160 on Saturday and Sunday. And I do not shy away from climbing, otherwise my route options would be very, very, repetitive. 
Rough guesses: You're not eating and drinking enough, you're starting off too fast, and most importantly, you're worrying too much about 'training'. Stop training, just ride your bike. If you've been following any training plans from the likes of Cycling Weekly, ignore them. Know where your limits are and stay within them. When you feel hungry, eat. When you feel thirsty, drink. Plan your routes with food stops in mind. In other words, if there's a nice cafe x miles away you'd like to try, ride there, have tea and cake, ride back (and so on). Cycling long distance is not about speed, it's about endurance, sustained pacing rather than heavy effort. And enjoying yourself, hopefully!


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## Rooster1 (22 Apr 2014)

I took the last few days off, I was just tired and needed a wee rest. Did a nice early 40 miles yesterday with an average of 16.3mph which is just fine for me.
I just started to get back ache at about 35 miles. Last time I went out the back ache started at 30 miles. I usually do a few stretches when it sharts.
My birthday is coming up and I have a whole day to myself so planning to do 60+ with some hills and stuff.

I must sort out my rear wheel though, it has got noisy again.


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## Stu Plows (22 Apr 2014)

Nice work mate! 

Best thing that has worked for me and upping my average speed was if I did a big ride that was quick for me (ie. club run or out with a quicker friend), I'd do a very slow one the next day or not ride at all (Saturday, I did not feel like riding at all which is not like me). I'm now past my bugbear of <17mph over any sort of distance between 20-40 miles, which is a real big thing for me as I wanted to be better than 17's just for myself really. For me it's just finding that consistency over the flats that is sustainable over a distance and not absolutely punishing myself over the first 10 miles.


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## BSRU (22 Apr 2014)

You don't need a new bike just more cycling miles, 100 miles a week with 3000ft of climbing is ok to start with.
I did my first 100 mile ride of the year on Friday with 4800ft of climbing and I do not feel tired all because I ride a fair amount(over 2500 miles this year so far) mostly 40 - 50 mile rides.


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## Tin Pot (22 Apr 2014)

It appears that exercise is just one element. Have a look at your sleep pattern and nutrition as well, sorting out a sleep pattern was something that really helped me out.


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## Tin Pot (22 Apr 2014)

vickster said:


> Try something else, have a swim or run perhaps


+1


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## jay clock (22 Apr 2014)

You are training for long slow rides. Get some long slow rides in, sod the average speed.


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## uclown2002 (22 Apr 2014)

Just keep riding your bike!
There is nothing magical about it, gradually increase your mileage and time in the saddle and you will reap the benefits.


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## michaelcycle (22 Apr 2014)

Take a couple of days off. You sound knackered (more so mentally) and you are over reaching rather than over training.

I wouldn't worry about your average speed. I used to think it was hugely important when I first started. Now? Not so much as it is influenced by so many variables.

Get some miles in and enjoy the ride.

ETA: It would help if I had read the whole thread before commenting. I see that's actually what you've done...


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## Rooster1 (22 Apr 2014)

I can't believe my typo "sharts" lol


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## Enis Baysal (11 Jul 2014)

Rooster1 said:


> I took the last few days off, I was just tired and needed a wee rest. Did a nice early 40 miles yesterday with an average of 16.3mph which is just fine for me.
> I just started to get back ache at about 35 miles. Last time I went out the back ache started at 30 miles. I usually do a few stretches when it sharts.
> My birthday is coming up and I have a whole day to myself so planning to do 60+ with some hills and stuff.
> 
> I must sort out my rear wheel though, it has got noisy again.



Hey there Rooster, I haven't been cycling too long, but I have been trying to train myself to go harder for longer. Twice daily 5 times a week I commute pretty much as hard as my hybrid will take me to work at 5.3 mile distance (Not much but my fitness isn't brill), My legs started to seize up and stiffen because I wasn't pre/post stretching on my commutes. I have had the same problems as you when I cycle harder I get slower, I went from near enough passing out after 10 minutes, to 4 hours easy in 2 months. In my opinion, the best thing for keeping your legs feeling fresh and keeping your motivation up to push yourself, shower then soak in a piping hot bath whilst massaging your legs *you can find guides for pressure points easily online*. Also go for a relaxing swim at a local pool and it works the muscles you use to cycle as well as all the muscles around them, commuting cyclists who do not go to the gym or core train at home tend to neglect these, this would cause you to slow down as your legs are not working properly as they should with all muscle groups.
Also, a nice 30-45 minute massage every other week definitely helps, not only physically but psychologically keeps me positive and feeling great. 

I hope others would agree


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## Rooster1 (11 Jul 2014)

Enis Baysal said:


> Hey there Rooster, I haven't been cycling too long, but I have been trying to train myself to go harder for longer. Twice daily 5 times a week I commute pretty much as hard as my hybrid will take me to work at 5.3 mile distance (Not much but my fitness isn't brill), My legs started to seize up and stiffen because I wasn't pre/post stretching on my commutes. I have had the same problems as you when I cycle harder I get slower, I went from near enough passing out after 10 minutes, to 4 hours easy in 2 months. In my opinion, the best thing for keeping your legs feeling fresh and keeping your motivation up to push yourself, shower then soak in a piping hot bath whilst massaging your legs *you can find guides for pressure points easily online*. Also go for a relaxing swim at a local pool and it works the muscles you use to cycle as well as all the muscles around them, commuting cyclists who do not go to the gym or core train at home tend to neglect these, this would cause you to slow down as your legs are not working properly as they should with all muscle groups.
> Also, a nice 30-45 minute massage every other week definitely helps, not only physically but psychologically keeps me positive and feeling great.
> 
> I hope others would agree



I think at the time of posting, I was totally overdoing it. Yesterday, I managed to average 18.2 mph for an hour with some hills too. I am feeling fit, but as per usual, fatigued. Doing about 100 miles a week.

I do need to do some pre and post stretches and stuff for sure.


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## Enis Baysal (11 Jul 2014)

Rooster1 said:


> I think at the time of posting, I was totally overdoing it. Yesterday, I managed to average 18.2 mph for an hour with some hills too. I am feeling fit, but as per usual, fatigued. Doing about 100 miles a week.
> 
> I do need to do some pre and post stretches and stuff for sure.


I think your going through the exact same motions as me

Good luck mate


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## confusedcyclist (12 Jul 2014)

Certainly from my experience of running (still new to cycling) the key eeking out that extra performance and improving week on week is having the right attitude and tracking performance in real time so you can go that bit harder. Without having a method of measuring your performance in real tim,e without going all out at every session, its hard to gauge your improvement and you will feel slower and will also be more likely to wuss out and take it easy.

That said, every time you get out you are getting that bit fitter, and although you might not be going faster you can improve in other ways (stamina, endurance etc)... average speed isn't everything and you said so much to start with regularly attaining PRs!


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## JasonHolder (13 Jul 2014)

Go harder but make sure you're recovered too.


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## Andy Jeffery (13 Jul 2014)

I just had a ride with a semi pro to look at the way I cycle. I was told that the pros don't train in the big cog and grind big gears which was what I was doing! So into the small cog I went. Result was cadence ave 90 to 100. Faster speed upto 16.9 mph. Less tired and a lot less tired legs. I would say have a rest like everybody is saying and drop to the small cog for training and spin those legs. Hopefully you will feel better and see improvements like I did.

Cheers Andy


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## JasonHolder (13 Jul 2014)

The difference being pros know what they are trying to achieve and how to get there. Simply upping your cadence is not the answer.


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## Andy Jeffery (13 Jul 2014)

Saves the legs and works for me


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## JasonHolder (13 Jul 2014)

Power breeds economy, and high cadence is economical. Working on your power is a much better angle to attack from


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## Joshua Plumtree (14 Jul 2014)

Big gear and high cadence, then you've really cracked it. 

Still working on it personally!


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## GrasB (14 Jul 2014)

You don't get stronger when training, you get stronger when resting. When you train you put load on your muscles & do small amounts of damage. In response to this they adapt to the loads when you let them recover, they do this by rebuilding them selves stronger in the way you load them. 10 miles/day is more than enough to produce over-training if the rider does't rest. Get close to maximal power for shorter durations every day & you soon start with compound damage to your muscles. This results in reduced power output & you simply can't ride as fast as you used to.



JasonHolder said:


> Power breeds economy, and high cadence is economical.


Higher cadence is more effective long term as it reduces recovery times & so allows you to produce more power for longer. Lower cadence is the most economical use of oxygen & ATP.


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