# rammed from behind, cops say your fault.



## glenn forger (8 Aug 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...nottingham-police-cyclist-video?commentpage=1

Unbelievable, the police are institutionally prejudiced against cyclists.


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## numbnuts (8 Aug 2013)

How can he be in the wrong, crazy or what


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## glenn forger (8 Aug 2013)

just beyond belief. none of us stand a chance, the driver sounded the horn three seconds before impact, the driver had seen the cyclist, then rammed him, then both get out and threaten and abuse the cyclist. but the drivers going on a course and the woman got a caution, so that's ok.

WTF is wrong with the police?


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## Boris Bajic (8 Aug 2013)

I think the woman may be Lauren Cooper, about whom Catherine Tate made some disturbing documentary programmes a year or two ago.

What a horrible mob in the car! I quite understand that our emotions can get slightly stretched on the day of a funeral, but that was unpleasant and dangerous.

Nonetheless, I do not find the police response about respecting funeral corteges inappropriate. I have been in many, walked past many and driven and cycled past many. It is usually pretty clear which cars are part of one and which are not. 

I am surprised the malefactors got off as lightly as they did, but these things happen.

I am not victim blaming. The occupants of the car were bestial in their aggression and conduct. The driving was also dangerous and aggressive.

Nonetheless an experienced road user (and who else would have a Brooks on a Brompton but a man of experience?) might have guessed that he was in a line of vehicles containing mourners and let them pass as a group. 

He didn't, which is not a crime. They rammed him and then threatened him, which is.


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## Mushroomgodmat (8 Aug 2013)

"But officer....I was having a bad day".

fark me.....


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## The Horse's Mouth (8 Aug 2013)

Unbelieveable. The police are an absolute joke when it comes to us cyclists. Id give up on them, if i hadnt already in the 80s when they were Maggie's private army.


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## Monkreadusuk (8 Aug 2013)

Appalling attitude by the police here and terrible outcome. It's stuff like this that needs to change. If I was driving and a child was crossing in front of me, would I just get an awareness course if I just ran him over? I doubt it!


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## steve6690 (8 Aug 2013)

The driver was offered an awareness course. This is an alternative to prosecution (which teaches the driver nothing usually). So as far as the police are concerned the collision was his fault. The passenger was cautioned for abusive behaviour.
The cyclist was not in the wrong and that email from the police officer doesn't say that he was, not even partially. What the email says is that road users should be aware of what's going on around them and be prepared to drive/ride defensively. As a piece of advice it is solid. The fact that you were in the right is cold comfort to your relatives when you're dead.
I don't agree that a court would accept as mitigation the fact he clearly didn't stop to allow the cortege to pass. In fact, if that video had been played in court the magistrates would probably come down hard on the driver. 
The cyclist moves properly into the centre of the lane well before the right turn. The white hatchback then overtakes which is fine because there is room to do so. However the Peugot cannot overtake because there is an approaching "Keep left" bollard in the centre of the road. At this point the Peugot is still behind the cyclist and it cannot overtake. It then rams the cycle from behind. Clearly Dangerous Driving IMO. You can hear a female voice shouting that the cyclist simply pulled out. This is wrong. He was already "out" before the white car passes him. You can clearly hear a horn sounding, and shouting before the collision that they're part of a funeral i.e "get out of my way". Inexcusable.
Personally, had I been investigating this, I would have recommended prosecution and would have tried to get CPS to run with Dangerous Driving. 
I would ask that CPS review the case


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## glenn forger (8 Aug 2013)

The cops seem to be saying the cyclist should have waited till the entire cortege passed. I'm not sure how you are supposed to tell which vehicle is part of the cortege, but I must admit if I was being followed by a crappy beat up car with a woman in a flowery summer dress bellowing obscenities from the window, I would not immediately assume they must be on their way to a funeral.


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## HLaB (8 Aug 2013)

The video is blocked for me but the report makes it quite clear


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## Monkreadusuk (8 Aug 2013)

glenn forger said:


> The cops seem to be saying the cyclist should have waited till the entire cortege passed. I'm not sure how you are supposed to tell which vehicle is part of the cortege, but I must admit if I was being followed by a crappy beat up car with a woman in a flowery summer dress bellowing obscenities from the window, I would not immediately assume they must be on their way to a funeral.




Secondly, I'm sure that a whole 20-30seconds wouldn't have meant they missed the funeral.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

Good job the driver wasn't an ex-england footballer or he might have got off scot free.


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## dodd82 (8 Aug 2013)

steve6690 said:


> The driver was offered an awareness course. This is an alternative to prosecution (which teaches the driver nothing usually). So as far as the police are concerned the collision was his fault. The passenger was cautioned for abusive behaviour.
> The cyclist was not in the wrong and that email from the police officer doesn't say that he was, not even partially. What the email says is that road users should be aware of what's going on around them and be prepared to drive/ride defensively. As a piece of advice it is solid. The fact that you were in the right is cold comfort to your relatives when you're dead.


 
I appreciate your point, but what would be the difference to contacting a rape victim and advising them about the dangers of walking home alone, along unlit streets?

There's a time and a place to offer advice.

In my opinion, when you have a victim in front of you, all you should be doing as a police officer is comforting that person, and reassuring them.

Whether what the police officer has said in this instance is sound advice, in my view it's misplaced.


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## Hip Priest (8 Aug 2013)

If those were my grandchildren then death would come as a blessed relief.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

steve6690 said:


> The driver was offered an awareness course. This is an alternative to prosecution (which teaches the driver nothing usually). So as far as the police are concerned the collision was his fault. The passenger was cautioned for abusive behaviour.
> The cyclist was not in the wrong and that email from the police officer doesn't say that he was, not even partially. What the email says is that road users should be aware of what's going on around them and be prepared to drive/ride defensively. As a piece of advice it is solid. The fact that you were in the right is cold comfort to your relatives when you're dead.
> I don't agree that a court would accept as mitigation the fact he clearly didn't stop to allow the cortege to pass. In fact, if that video had been played in court the magistrates would probably come down hard on the driver.
> The cyclist moves properly into the centre of the lane well before the right turn. The white hatchback then overtakes which is fine because there is room to do so. However the Peugot cannot overtake because there is an approaching "Keep left" bollard in the centre of the road. At this point the Peugot is still behind the cyclist and it cannot overtake. It then rams the cycle from behind. Clearly Dangerous Driving IMO. You can hear a female voice shouting that the cyclist simply pulled out. This is wrong. He was already "out" before the white car passes him. You can clearly hear a horn sounding, and shouting before the collision that they're part of a funeral i.e "get out of my way". Inexcusable.
> ...


What are the police approved markings for the last car in the cortege, just so we can be sure to be aware of what's going on around us? Does it also apply to wedding corteges too?


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## steve6690 (8 Aug 2013)

dodd82 said:


> I appreciate your point, but what would be the difference to contacting a rape victim and advising them about the dangers of walking home alone, along unlit streets?
> 
> There's a time and a place to offer advice.
> 
> ...


 
The timing is unfortunate, but it would have been the last contact from police so there wouldn't be a future opportunity.


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## glenn forger (8 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> What are the police approved markings for the last car in the cortege, just so we can be sure to be aware of what's going on around us? Does it also apply to wedding corteges too?


 


Maybe an email to Notts police to seek clarification on the matter? Asking how, exactly, we are supposed to ascertain which vehicles are part of the procession, and do shrieky fishwives qualify?


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## Hip Priest (8 Aug 2013)

The cyclist is not to blame here. We should all take care not to insert ourselves into funeral processions, but he wasn't to know the red car was part of it, and he was only turning right anyway. Ultimately, the driver deliberately rammed the cyclist with his car, which is a criminal offence.


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## steve6690 (8 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> What are the police approved markings for the last car in the cortege, just so we can be sure to be aware of what's going on around us? Does it also apply to wedding corteges too?


 
Just so we're clear - I don't agree that he should have been expected to get out of their way. I also don't see how he was supposed to recognise that the peugot was part of the cortege - not that I think it actually makes any difference. As I said, generally drivers should try to be aware of what's going on around them and be prepared to drive/ride defensively. I think it's clear from my post as a whole where I stand on this.
Incidentally, there was a complaint and the police have clarified that there was no blame, not even partial blame attributed to the cyclist and that the email was not intended to be taken as such.


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## thegravestoneman (8 Aug 2013)

As some one who has been to and officiated at far too many funerals, the hearse and two (limo's) can more often be seen travelling to the deceased's address from the Funeral directors (FD) for the start of procedings than actually travelling to the church/cemetery/crematorium (unless you live on a main route to a cemetery etc. So a hearse and two are not always 'on the job', Is the incident near the final resting place or some distance from one? Either way I cannot see that the cyclist did anything wrong. I have seen JCBs and all sorts caught up in a cortege and never a problem , if the cyclist was turning he would have been out of the way in no time and a good FD will always delay things until everybody is there. The family is always going to be a bit tense, but ignorance is ignorance which ever way you look at it and no excuse.


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## Frood42 (8 Aug 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> Ultimately, the driver deliberately rammed the cyclist with his car.


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## dodd82 (8 Aug 2013)

steve6690 said:


> The timing is unfortunate, but it would have been the last contact from police so there wouldn't be a future opportunity.


 
If the timing is unfortunate, then don't say it.

If you really think the message needs making, then send it amongst literature as a gesture.

It's a silly thing to say and will only ever draw offence.


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## br5968 (8 Aug 2013)

I'd be tempted to complain to the elected Police and Crime Commissioner - who are supposed to be there working to protect ordinary people's interests. Let's see them doing some work to address what - in any other walk of life - would be considered appalling customer service


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## Milzy (8 Aug 2013)

There really is no justice in this messed up country anymore. It pays to be scum more every year.


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## apb (8 Aug 2013)

it's all about me. get out of my way as what i'm doing is more important.

i, like most, have had my share of tragedies and when those tragic events come around there is always one that somehow turns the event and focus around to them.

The lady in this video reminds me of that personality, justifying her crime with her grievance. Pathetic.


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## PK99 (8 Aug 2013)

dodd82 said:


> I appreciate your point, but what would be the difference to contacting a rape victim and advising them about the dangers of walking home alone, along unlit streets?
> 
> .



I would hope that someone raped while walking alone along unlit streets would be counselled about avoiding such situations in the future. 

It was certainly part of the Victim Support training that I received that part of the role was to help Victims avoid becoming repeat victims - from helping a young kid understand that standing on a street corner, earphones in, texting on their iphone, might not be the best of ideas to helping a little old lady understand that faced with "I'm from the council and need to check...." letting a strange man into the house was not a good idea.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

steve6690 said:


> Just so we're clear - I don't agree that he should have been expected to get out of their way. I also don't see how he was supposed to recognise that the peugot was part of the cortege - not that I think it actually makes any difference. As I said, generally drivers should try to be aware of what's going on around them and be prepared to drive/ride defensively. I think it's clear from my post as a whole where I stand on this.
> Incidentally, there was a complaint and the police have clarified that there was no blame, not even partial blame attributed to the cyclist and that the email was not intended to be taken as such.


In what way was he not riding defensively (enough).

I see no evidence of a lack of defensive riding and the tone of the email is therefore patronising in the extreme. 

Drivers, including the one in the Pug have a duty to be aware of what's going on around them too, a duty to accept that riding the horn does not confer right of way nor is the horn a substitute for the brakes, and they should have to accept, via the courts, that ramming right turning cyclists deliberately, i.e. using a car as a weapon, should result in having their licence taken away for a very long time. And I write that as a driver as well as a cyclist.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

2588548 said:


> It is a common failing, both of our police and our courts, to view the use of a motor vehicle as a weapon as a motoring offence not as an act of violence of one sort or another.


and there can be few clearer examples of that failure, that I've seen, than in this case. Riding the horn for three seconds whilst your passenger is shouting and then ramming a cyclist. What part of 'accident' covers that?


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## dodd82 (8 Aug 2013)

PK99 said:


> I would hope that someone raped while walking alone along unlit streets would be counselled about avoiding such situations in the future.
> 
> It was certainly part of the Victim Support training that I received that part of the role was to help Victims avoid becoming repeat victims - from helping a young kid understand that standing on a street corner, earphones in, texting on their iphone, might not be the best of ideas to helping a little old lady understand that faced with "I'm from the council and need to check...." letting a strange man into the house was not a good idea.


 
Fair point.

Though perhaps a bit different, in the type of communication that we're discussing i.e. an email from a police officer, rather than a support session.


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## simon.r (8 Aug 2013)

thegravestoneman said:


> Is the incident near the final resting place or some distance from one?


 
The crematorium is about a mile further up the road.

As someone who drives much more than they cycle I can normally see the police / driver's side of these incidents, but I can't with this one. Leaning on the horn and then deliberately running someone off their bike is absolutely disgraceful, whatever the circumstances.


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

dodd82 said:


> Fair point.
> 
> Though perhaps a bit different, in the type of communication that we're discussing i.e. an email from a police officer, rather than a support session.


And it's not just an email from a police officer. It's from a Sargent of police, someone in a leadership position, in response, if the Gruaniad is to be beleived, to a "what are you going to do about it?" query from the victim.

It's victim blaming pure and simple.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 Aug 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> The cyclist is not to blame here. We should all take care not to insert ourselves into funeral processions, but he wasn't to know the red car was part of it, and he was only turning right anyway. Ultimately, the driver deliberately rammed the cyclist with his car, which is a criminal offence.


A little quibble with this: the cyclist did not insert himself into a funeral procession, he got caught in the middle of an overtaking cortège. Quite why a cortège couldn't drive with a sense of processional dignity and stay behind is beyond me. Why do undertakers have to overtake? Not to exonerate the sheep behind though.


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## Cyclopathic (8 Aug 2013)

What a stupid woman. What was the big hurry? I'm sure her grandma would still be dead when she got there.


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## Hip Priest (8 Aug 2013)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> A little quibble with this: the cyclist did not insert himself into a funeral procession, he got caught in the middle of an overtaking cortège.


 
I agree.

I think you've misread what I was trying to say.


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## deptfordmarmoset (8 Aug 2013)

Hip Priest said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think you've misread what I was trying to say.


Ok, at least I know now!


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## deanbmx (8 Aug 2013)

This is near me. The road is quite narrow by the centre reservations. It is ridiculous that he is being blamed for it.


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## Archie_tect (8 Aug 2013)

By deliberately ramming the cyclist causing him to fall off his bike they ensured they missed the funeral anyway. Can't see any mitigating factors for their actions, the woman's threatening behaviour or the woman's language.


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## Maylian (8 Aug 2013)

Disgraceful response from the driver and passenger, things like this make my blood boil. Only today I had a similar scenario in that I saw a hearse and small cortege following as I joined the main road. The hearse overtook just before a pinch point and I had to take primary as there is another one shortly after. In my case the cortege seemed to have peeled off somewhere as the limo's had disappeared.

Fortunately I was on a straight drag for 2 miles so didn't need to turn but there is almost no way you can tell what is in a procession. Not that I drive but I don't know the point of these awareness courses, most people seem to go into them blinkered and have little impact on their driving once they've completed them!


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## Boris Bajic (8 Aug 2013)

There is never a time when snobbery is out of place, so I'll add this:

What looked like a metallic grey Rolls-Royce hearse followed by two matching metallic grey (Coleman-Milne?) Rolls-Royce limousines was never likely to auger well for the social skills or educational achievements of the passengers.

In funeral vehicles, the further the colour from black, the more likely a fight at the wake.

Similarly, the more lavish and opulent the vehicles, the more likely Stella will be served in bottles.

I still think the woman was Lauren Cooper and I want my fiver.


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## Hip Priest (8 Aug 2013)

Boris Bajic said:


> There is never a time when snobbery is out of place, so I'll add this:
> 
> What looked like a metallic grey Rolls-Royce hearse followed by two matching metallic grey (Cileman-Milne?) Rolls-Royce limousines was never likely to auger well for the social skills or educational achievements of the passengers.
> 
> ...


 

Ha. At my nan's funeral, we had black Mercedes cars, and a white van still managed to get between them! As a happy coincidence, my nan was a big Coronation Street fan, and the cars had been used a couple of weeks earlier for Des Barnes' funeral on the show.


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## Profpointy (8 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> and there can be few clearer examples of that failure, that I've seen, than in this case. Riding the horn for three seconds whilst your passenger is shouting and then ramming a cyclist. What part of 'accident' covers that?



Spot on ! And at some risk of derailing this thread into the re-definition of "accident" thread I think this well illustrates the difference between not-an-accident but assault, and an accident, however irresponsibly or blameworthy the cause of an accident - be that inatention, carelessness, error all the way up to insane stupidity


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## GrumpyGregry (8 Aug 2013)

Some forces now only refer to RTC's. Road Traffic Collisions. Perhaps the tide is turning.


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## Saluki (8 Aug 2013)

I can't see how the cyclist is to blame. Unless he is the son of mystic meg, I cannot see how he could know that the car was part of the funeral cortage. What utter twats those car drivers were. Poor chap. I hope that this sorts in his favour.
I wonder, if that car had rear ended another car while signalling to turn right whether it would have been their fault or not. One rule for cars and another for bikes?


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## J1780 (8 Aug 2013)

and supposing the cyclist was a driver who had entered funeral procession in an appropiate gap in traffic and then stopped in order to turn right would he then be to blame if he was rammed from behind simply because the car behind was going to a funeral the driver should have known it was a funeral and not pulled out....I wonder. In any case the cyclist was in no way to blame here.


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## sheddy (8 Aug 2013)

Probably said already, but I guess that the motorist was just blindly trying to keep up with the procession and was scared of losing them.
Still no excuse tho.


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## TheJDog (8 Aug 2013)

I've no idea why he was asking for details and not immediately calling 999 for being deliberately knocked off and then assaulted by that awful bag. 

That's the thing with some of these people - they are in such a hurry they can't wait 2 seconds to give you a bit more space, but they're happy to stand around and argue for 10 minutes if you so much as say boo


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## Sara_H (8 Aug 2013)

thegravestoneman said:


> As some one who has been to and officiated at far too many funerals, the hearse and two (limo's) can more often be seen travelling to the deceased's address from the Funeral directors (FD) for the start of procedings than actually travelling to the church/cemetery/crematorium (unless you live on a main route to a cemetery etc. So a hearse and two are not always 'on the job', Is the incident near the final resting place or some distance from one? Either way I cannot see that the cyclist did anything wrong. I have seen JCBs and all sorts caught up in a cortege and never a problem , if the cyclist was turning he would have been out of the way in no time and a good FD will always delay things until everybody is there. The family is always going to be a bit tense, but ignorance is ignorance which ever way you look at it and no excuse.


 
I missed my Great-Grandad's funeral after getting separated from the courtage at traffic light


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## cd365 (8 Aug 2013)

User said:


> If I were the cyclist I would raise a formal complaint with the IPCC about the behaviour of the officers concerned.


+1


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## classic33 (8 Aug 2013)

Those working on replacing the road surface stopped all traffic on both sides of the bridge whilst they ensured that every vehicle involved in the funeral got over. That was my uncle's funeral in Ireland.
They even stopped work & turned the machinary off whilst it went past, relying on manual signals instead.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (8 Aug 2013)

FFS..the fact that the horn could be heard makes this either a deliberate collision or dangerous (not careless) driving..

But then, by being on the road, the cyclist was being predatory like a teenage girl.....


What the hell has "I'm going to a FYOO-NER-ALL" got do do with the price of scampi fries anyway? Like the brain dead idiots last weekend after the Jane Tomlinson York 10k who were arguing with parking wardens for ticketing their cars dumped on verges by double yellows and across dipped kerb edges and crossing points - "it's DISGUSTING...This is for CHAR-I-DEE". Except I parked down the very same road but using the logic that if I could run 6.2 miles on a Sunday morning then I also have the superhuman ability to gently walk 500 yards from a safe, legal and non obstructive parking space to the event

Doing something for charity, or going to a funeral, whilst deserving due respect, does not give one special dispensation to behave like a moron


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## Poacher (8 Aug 2013)

Please bear in mind that this is Nottinghamshire Police we're dealing with here - officially the worst force in England.

Other police forces are available........unfortunately not in Notts.


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## Shut Up Legs (8 Aug 2013)

Monkreadusuk said:


> Secondly, I'm sure that a whole 20-30seconds wouldn't have meant they missed the funeral.


I was always told one should be late for one's funeral .

Seriously, though, this is institutionalised prejudice. Australia has it too, unfortunately.


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## thegravestoneman (9 Aug 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I missed my Great-Grandad's funeral after getting separated from the courtage at traffic light


 
I am really sorry to hear that.


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## Misusawa (9 Aug 2013)

If they hadn't ran into him, it looks like they would have planned to overtake him just at the pedestrian refuge. That's plain bad driving.
There is no excuse for the obsceneties and threatening behaviour though.


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## ComedyPilot (9 Aug 2013)

Like others here I take umbrage at the police officer's comments, but the comments about emergency vehicles also get my goat.

When I did my initial pursuit and response driving course I was taught that even if we have all bells and whistles going it is OUR responsibility if we hit another road user, as they shouldn't be expected to see or hear us. The suggestion was joe public is not to expect a blue light vehicle hairing along the wrong side of the road, so we have to anticipate their not seeing hearing us and drive accordingly - i.e. be ready to stop - and further to that, if we did have a crash, we would be investigated.

That sounded reasonable to me, but it also seems poles apart from this police officer's opinion.


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## asterix (9 Aug 2013)

Sara_H said:


> I missed my Great-Grandad's funeral after getting separated from the courtage at traffic light


 


Given the police sergeant's response, I've no doubt he would consider you entirely justified in running the light. If others were injured as a result of your action then obviously they have only themselves to blame and the courts would obviously take this into account.


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## gambatte (9 Aug 2013)

So the dealing officer is a cyclist too....
One of my acquaintances in the running clubs a long time copper. Decent runner and a regular cyclist. She’ll turn up for runs on the bike, competes in triathlon and has completed Ironman competitions.
I was driving home last night. I was sat a couple of vehicles back, at a red light, approaching a T junction. Traffics considerably lighter than I’d expect. I was only driving through town as the motorway was rammed with a 6 vehicle incident. I saw a cyclist approaching, realised it was her and blipped the horn, gave a quick wave.
Then thought....
HOLD ON
She’s plod
And she’s no worry about the lights, which were on green for her, as she’s just come round the corner on her hack bike, on the pavement, bypassing the lights and continued through the peds.
What an... example?


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## glenn forger (9 Aug 2013)

It's the new "Some of my friends are black"


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## Jezston (9 Aug 2013)

Poacher said:


> Please bear in mind that this is Nottinghamshire Police we're dealing with here - officially the worst force in England.
> 
> Other police forces are available........unfortunately not in Notts.


 
Officially?

This whole thing is pretty ugly, particularly as I had a very good experience with Notts police after a taxi driver there decided to try and run me off the road for daring to not hug the hugger - when I was turning right.

But seriously, f*** everyone involved in this case bar the victim. Deliberately knocking someone down and getting a 'driver awareness course' as a result? I had a flatmate who got one of those for speeding - didn't make the slightest difference to his attitude or behaviour on the road.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> Outrageous. And odd that yesterday, when it was a bus ramming a cyclist, it seemed to be the cyclist's fault.


 
Four pages and no bites... you poor thing... OK, I'll give you the attention you crave... cyclist/bus/pringle incident, cyclist brought it on himself (I apologise for stating the cyclists gender)... this incident, the cyclist didn't... can you tell the difference?


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## BentMikey (9 Aug 2013)

The unobscured and YouTube version of the video is here: Knocked off Bicycle then abused in Nottingham (Trent Bridge) - T207XYA.

Why the link you ask? Google bomb the registration. Simples.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFu7Jc8pSnM


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## Spinney (9 Aug 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> Four pages and no bites... you poor thing... OK, I'll give you the attention you crave... cyclist/bus/pringle incident, cyclist brought it on himself (*I apologise for stating the cyclists gender*)... this incident, the cyclist didn't... can you tell the difference?


 

You know there is really no need to take the p*** about some people's very real concerns about gender equality and the effects that the use of language may have on this. If the cyclist involved was male (and I assume you can see this from the video), there is nothing wrong with saying 'himself'.


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## glenn forger (9 Aug 2013)

BentMikey said:


> The unobscured and YouTube version of the video is here: Knocked off Bicycle then abused in Nottingham (Trent Bridge) - T207XYA.
> 
> Why the link you ask? Google bomb the registration. Simples.
> 
> ...





Well, that car's probably not going to last long or they may have sold it. Make more sense to name those two knuckle draggers. Not for any sort of vigilantism, just so they can be publicly shamed like Emma Rightofway.


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## Poacher (9 Aug 2013)

Jezston said:


> Officially?


 
According to Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, as reported (sorry!) by Sky news.


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## asterix (9 Aug 2013)

Poacher said:


> According to Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, as reported (sorry!) by Sky news.


 

That was dated March 2010 when


> Nottinghamshire's Chief Constable Julia Hodson promised the force would "dramatically boost" its performance.
> "Urgent action is now being taken, as a result of the Capability Review and with the support of the Police Authority and HMIC, to build on our improvement plan of last year, to create a more stable and cohesive leadership team working alongside me, and to ensure we deliver significant and lasting performance improvements on the ground for the people of this county," she said.


 
Three years later..


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## BentMikey (9 Aug 2013)

Three years later, sh1t would seem to be exactly the same. Deeds, not words.


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## HLaB (9 Aug 2013)

BentMikey said:


> The unobscured and YouTube version of the video is here: Knocked off Bicycle then abused in Nottingham (Trent Bridge) - T207XYA.
> 
> Why the link you ask? Google bomb the registration. Simples.
> 
> ...



I saw it last night but the newspaper video is blocked at work, thanks for a link thats not


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## jarlrmai (9 Aug 2013)

BentMikey said:


> The unobscured and YouTube version of the video is here: Knocked off Bicycle then abused in Nottingham (Trent Bridge) - T207XYA.
> 
> Why the link you ask? Google bomb the registration. Simples.
> 
> ...




That's one terrifying YouTube thumbnail, never want to see that.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> Is it you that is a truck driver MontyVeda? I hope I've got that wrong.


what has my occupation got to do with anything?


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

2589528 said:


> Are you really comfortable with the use of a road vehicle as a weapon of intimidation or, as in these two examples, actual violence toward another person?


why would you assume I'm 'comfortable' with either intimidation or violence... all i did was point out the very clear differences between this incident, and 'that' incident.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> Only that if you really hold that attitude it would be better if you were a non-driver, especially of a large vehicle.


attitude?


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## Leodis (9 Aug 2013)

2589465 said:


> They always say that.


 

Its like the new "I am not racist, I have a black friend"


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> The 'Well, you were asking for it' attitude.


oh that one... he was hardly just cycling along, minding his own business was he?

just because i noticed that he was clearly winding up the bus driver doesn't give me any particular attitude, it's just me being observant... read in to that what you will.


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## steve6690 (9 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> In what way was he not riding defensively (enough).
> 
> I see no evidence of a lack of defensive riding and the tone of the email is therefore patronising in the extreme.
> 
> Drivers, including the one in the Pug have a duty to be aware of what's going on around them too, a duty to accept that riding the horn does not confer right of way nor is the horn a substitute for the brakes, and they should have to accept, via the courts, that ramming right turning cyclists deliberately, i.e. using a car as a weapon, should result in having their licence taken away for a very long time. And I write that as a driver as well as a cyclist.



Please read my posts again. You are preaching to the converted. In this case he did nothing wrong. I'm making a general point.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

I see it as my own responsibility not to wind other people up... if I do wind somebody up, and the result is them getting wound up... are they really to blame? Or did my own actions merely have a consequence?

I'm not claiming that what the bus driver did was the right thing to do... I'm trying to point out that the cyclist (in the other thread) did in fact bring it upon himself... He could have averted the incident by not being a d!ck in the first place. Surely you understand the logic?


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> Are they really to blame? Yes they are.
> 
> *Is that the same logic that says women shouldn't get drunk or go out on their own after dark in case they get attacked?*


 
FFS that is pathetic.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

Going out at night and getting drunk is not 'asking for it'.


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## cd365 (9 Aug 2013)

I agree with MV, the cyclist was trying to wind up the bus driver and because of his actions there was a consequence to face for being an idiot, an out of order consequence but it was still a direct consequence to his deliberate action of trying to cause friction.

This cyclist did no more than cycle properly and happened to meet an idiot.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

cd365 said:


> I agree with MV, the cyclist was trying to wind up the bus driver and because of his actions there was a consequence to face for being an idiot, an out of order consequence but it was still a direct consequence to his deliberate action of trying to cause friction.
> 
> This cyclist did no more than cycle properly and happened to meet an idiot.


So if you wind me up I can punch you and that's your fault? I see.

But you're not serious. You can't be. No amount of winding up is EVER justification for physical assault, with or without the use of a vehicle. If any driver can't understand that then they should not be operating a vehicle.


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## smutchin (9 Aug 2013)

Monkreadusuk said:


> Secondly, I'm sure that a whole 20-30seconds wouldn't have meant they missed the funeral.


 
It's always the ones who are in a hurry to get somewhere who have the time to stop and have a go at you.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

smutchin said:


> It's always the ones who are in a hurry to get somewhere who have the time to stop and have a go at you.


ain't that the truth thobut.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> A good point is always worth repeating


Well, a simple +1 lacked punch.


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## GrumpyGregry (9 Aug 2013)

User13710 said:


> I fear it still might not be enough.


If I get wound up I'm allowed to kick the lesson in. Surely?


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

2590218 said:


> The key difference is that you have viewed it as "an out of order consequence".


that's a key difference how? ... and before you reply, re-read post #91


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## Sara_H (9 Aug 2013)

ComedyPilot said:


> Like others here I take umbrage at the police officer's comments, but the comments about emergency vehicles also get my goat.
> 
> When I did my initial pursuit and response driving course I was taught that even if we have all bells and whistles going it is OUR responsibility if we hit another road user, as they shouldn't be expected to see or hear us. The suggestion was joe public is not to expect a blue light vehicle hairing along the wrong side of the road, so we have to anticipate their not seeing hearing us and drive accordingly - i.e. be ready to stop - and further to that, if we did have a crash, we would be investigated.
> 
> That sounded reasonable to me, but it also seems poles apart from this police officer's opinion.


 
There was a case in Sheffield a few years ago of a woman being killed when a fire engine going through a red light hit her car.

I can't remember the outcome of the investigation, but I remember there being speculation about whether the fir engine driver would be prosecuted.

http://metro.co.uk/2008/06/30/mum-killed-in-fire-engine-crash-after-hoax-call-226891/


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

i don't see any mention of the bus driver... but you've clearly read very deeply into that omission.


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## MontyVeda (9 Aug 2013)

Well if you're resorting to mud slinging, there's little else to be said.


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## Shaun (10 Aug 2013)

Please take the _other_ discussions over to their respective threads; stop making personal remarks; and re-focus back on the incident being discussed in the OP.

Thanks,
Shaun


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## classic33 (10 Aug 2013)

Shaun said:


> Please take the _other_ discussions over to their respective threads; stop making personal remarks; and re-focus back on the incident being discussed in the OP.
> 
> Thanks,
> Shaun


Can't say I see that happening though.


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## stowie (10 Aug 2013)

MontyVeda said:


> I see it as my own responsibility not to wind other people up... if I do wind somebody up, and the result is them getting wound up... are they really to blame? Or did my own actions merely have a consequence?
> 
> I'm not claiming that what the bus driver did was the right thing to do... I'm trying to point out that the cyclist (in the other thread) did in fact bring it upon himself... He could have averted the incident by not being a d!ck in the first place. Surely you understand the logic?


 

The problem with your logic is that someone (usually the motorist) is making a judgement that it is acceptable to use a vehicle in this way providing the actions are "justified". Ask some motorists whether this would be acceptable if a cyclist is taking primary for instance and the answer would come back as yes because they do not understand the reason why the cyclist is "in the way". The acceptability of using a vehicle on a more vulnerable road user should be the same even if the vulnerable road user is being a complete d!ck or not. The answer should be that it is totally unacceptable.

I still maintain that if the bus driver had simply stopped the cyclist would have very quickly got bored and gone away. As it stands, I doubt a bus driver in the UK doing what was shown on the video would have much chance of retaining his or her job. Because driving a bus at someone no matter how much of an idiot they are doesn't really show a great attitude to driving a very large machine among the general public (a significant proportion of whom are d!cks if my daily interaction is anything to go by).


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## Cyclopathic (10 Aug 2013)

Doing something for charity, or going to a funeral, whilst deserving due respect, does not give one special dispensation to behave like a moron[/quote]


For some people acting like a moron is just their default setting. No special dispensation is ever sought by them as it is their right to act like this.


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## cd365 (10 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> So if you wind me up I can punch you and that's your fault?


 
Yes


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## glenn forger (10 Aug 2013)

You're winding me up.


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> So if you wind me up I can punch you and that's your fault?





cd365 said:


> Yes


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Aug 2013)

glenn forger said:


> You're winding me up.


They've gotta be, surely?


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## asterix (10 Aug 2013)

WRT to drivers, especially professional drivers, the test of their worth is how patient they are, particularly when provoked by other road users.

Other than externally observing HGV drivers, many of who are some of the most patient drivers on the road, I can recall a ride from Manchester to Felixstowe in the passenger seat of an HGV. It was fascinating to watch the crazy antics of some car drivers from on high. A particular favourite was overtaking the HGV just before they exited on a slip road, often braking just in front of it. It must have been tempting to give them a blast on the horn but my chauffeur just got on with the job, unmoved. Quality.

Getting back to the OP.Having revisited the video, it seems to me that the passenger understood perfectly well that they'd committed a crime by deliberately ramming the cyclist, she gets out and mouths off, in order to shift the blame onto the cyclist by saying that he veered into their path instead of doing as he did, indicating his intention and correctly moving into position.

Bad luck for her that her lie was blown out of the water by the cyclist's camera recording the true facts. Given the police response, I'd say only his camera may have prevented them from succeeding in putting the blame squarely on the cyclist!


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Aug 2013)

which, had he gone under the wheels of the pug, and it is sheer chance that he didn't, then, in the absence of the camera, that's where they would have shifted the blame...


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## Poacher (10 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> which, had he gone under the wheels of the pug, and it is sheer chance that he didn't, then, in the absence of the camera, that's where they would have shifted the blame...


 
Oh, surely not?


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Aug 2013)

Poacher said:


> Oh, surely not?


Call me a cynic....


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## Poacher (10 Aug 2013)

GregCollins said:


> Call me a cynic....


OK, you're a cynic.









........hardly news, though, is it?
PS Sorry about the job. Has that coloured your attitude in any way? Best of luck for future employment; in the meantime, enjoy the extra leisure - it's better in Summer than in Winter, believe me!


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## GrumpyGregry (10 Aug 2013)

Poacher said:


> OK, you're a cynic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ta. But I prefer sceptic!

As to work; not unemployed yet, and a couple of interesting opportunities have opened up in the last couple of days.


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## MontyVeda (10 Aug 2013)

2590504 said:


> *You condemned one party and didn't mention the other at all*. The inferrence drawn is hardly creative is it.


 
maybe you should re-re-read my post #91


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## MontyVeda (10 Aug 2013)

them blinkers actually quite suit you.


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## cloggsy (13 Aug 2013)

Three words...

"Police Complaints Commission!"

I know they're on their way to a funeral & emotions were probably high, but that is no excuse is it?


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## Jezston (13 Aug 2013)

Has anyone had any experience of the IPCC in cases like this? Are they ever able and/or willing to do anything about?


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## TwickenhamCyclist (13 Aug 2013)

Back to the OP - outrageous but not surprising. I got hit from behind by a bus a few years ago - the driver of the bus and the driver of another bus coming in the opposite direction just started having a go at me for being on a bike in the road - their behavior was supported by two community support officers on the second bus. Their only intervention was to threaten to arrest me if i didn't move out of the road (I was trying to take down the name of the driver and the reg of the bus that hit me) when the drivers carried on being abusive and I swore at them. I asked for compensation for my wheel from the bus company and, after months of chasing, they said the video on the bus that hit me wasn't working, both bus drives had said it was my fault because I slowed down (after signalling to turn left) and that if this went to court the judge would defiantly side with them and agree it was my fault. Police weren't interested - I called the bus companies bluff and said I see them in court and they settled there and then.
I thought the chap in the video showed remarkable restraint.


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## TwickenhamCyclist (13 Aug 2013)

glenn forger said:


> Maybe an email to Notts police to seek clarification on the matter? Asking how, exactly, we are supposed to ascertain which vehicles are part of the procession, and do shrieky fishwives qualify?


I don't think an email - too easy to ignore - perhaps a freedom of information request would be better suited


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## Slaav (13 Aug 2013)

I am in two minds about this whole incident....

HOWEVER, if one takes the following approach:

A minor incident of some sort occurs (blocking an overtake/not getting out of the way/fails to give right of way/bumps into a ped by texting whilst walking etc)

Anyway, chap A takes offence and faces up to Chap B, Chap A dodges about staying in the face of Chap B. Chap B tries to walk around/away but no.... Chap A keeps on stepping right in the way and keeps screaming at Chap B - go on; do something about it! COme on you wimp.... do something about it if you are the big man - imagine if this went on for 30 secs or more?????

The correct decision is obviously walk away. Turn the other cheek etc. And I genuinely think that is what I would do..... but would we all?

Seeing a video of Chap A/B, what we all say? Seriously; no bike involved????

Maybe a different decision or opinion to the one I think is correct in the OP......


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## buggi (13 Aug 2013)

I'm shocked. it doesn't matter if you are part of a funeral courtage or not, you don't have priority. Quite frankly, its tantamount to telling a rape victim she deserved it for wearing a short skirt. This is dangerous driving simple as that. in fact, it's assault with a deadly weapon. i can tell you know if that bitch had approached me like that i would have turned my camera off and laid her out... funeral or not. i think the guy did very well to keep his cool.

it just so happens i was emailing the CTC today, on their request, about the recent spate of attacks on cyclists in Leics. i might pop the lady at the CTC this link tomorrow.


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## RWright (16 Aug 2013)

Most all the funerals I see around here are police escorted, unless there is a very long distance from the funeral service to the burial site. They are then just escorted part of the way and when the procession nears the burial site, that local police department resumes the escort.

Not everyone, but most everyone coming the opposite direction pulls over and stops on he side of the road out of tradition and respect I suppose. I am sure in big cities it probably isn't like that. More than likely the guy in the video would have been told to pull over and wait by the cops here. I know that is what I would have done if I knew I was in the path of a funeral procession. Most of them here have their headlights on when in the procession.


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