# East Coast train: no cycle space available



## Wendel (22 Apr 2010)

Hello folks,

I'm new here... 
Next month I'll go cycling in Scotland, and I booked train tickets from Newcastle to Glasgow to take 2 bikes with us. Unfortunately there was no cycle space available to be reserved. 
Can I expect to take the bikes though? Which experience did you make? Does train staff usually tolerate that...?

Thanks & kind regards from Germany
Wendel


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## SavageHoutkop (22 Apr 2010)

I wouldn't chance it. Not tried that line myself though.
Call them and see if there are any spaces.

Tel: 08457 225 225
www.eastcoast.co.uk
London King’s Cross - Eastern
Counties - Yorkshire - North East
England – Scotland
Free of charge. Reservations
compulsory. Five cycle spaces per train.
Tandems can be conveyed subject to
length restrictions. Platform restrictions
apply at some stations. See website for
full details.


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## GrahamG (22 Apr 2010)

It depends on the time of day, if your ticket is for a specific train then it might be a gamble but otherwise you might be OK. However, if you have more flexible (expensive!) tickets then you can just wait for the next train and hope there's space. Whilst the restrictions shown on the train companies' websites are sometimes ignored or just not widely followed, there are always some staff who follow them to the letter - others have empathy and common sense but you just don't know until you're there. I'm sure that foreign visitors would get better treatment though!


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## Wendel (22 Apr 2010)

Thanks for the replies.
Yes the ticket is for a specific train, a Friday at high noon.
The problem is that we need to catch a connecting train and finally a ferry... 
Well I think we'll try.
I'm just thinking of buying another ticket with cycle space reservations for a later service with which we would still catch the ferry, just to go sure. In that case the 1st ticket would be wasted.


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## Gixxerman (22 Apr 2010)

Annoying isn't it?
How do they expect us to use the trains if this is how we are treated.
I am a great believer in making the people responsible for the service use it. That way they can experience the frustrations first hand.
How about making the transport minister use public transport for all journeys. I bet the standard of service would improve, and the problems solved in very short order. You could extend this for all the ministers - education minister forced to use state schools, health minister forced to use the NHS.
Could prove very interesting!


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## killiekosmos (22 Apr 2010)

Wendel,

Check out the scenic/slow route. There are trains which run Newcastle-Carlisle - Dumfries - Kilmarnock - Glasgow. These are operated by Scotrail and are Sprinters. Sprinters all have cycle racks for around 10 bikes.

Only little word of advice - check for a through train. I once got caught out with a change at Carlisle from Newcastle and the local train did not have much bike space.


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## toroddf (22 Apr 2010)

If you are going for the Arran ferry, please note you can also take the Newcastle to Stranraer train. You just jump off at Ayr and take the train to Kilwinning and then either cycle to Ardrossan or take the train there.


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## andym (22 Apr 2010)

Gixxerman said:


> Annoying isn't it?
> How do they expect us to use the trains if this is how we are treated.
> I am a great believer in making the people responsible for the service use it. That way they can experience the frustrations first hand.
> How about making the transport minister use public transport for all journeys. I bet the standard of service would improve, and the problems solved in very short order. You could extend this for all the ministers - education minister forced to use state schools, health minister forced to use the NHS.
> Could prove very interesting!



Erm, maybe blame the other cyclists who booked the spaces first?


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## mike e (22 Apr 2010)

Wendel,

I use East Coast nearly every month to travel to London with my bike and I get asked everytime for a bike reservation. I very much doubt they will allow you to travel unless your bike is reserved. You would be taking a massive gamble on the day to try and "blag it". It would very much depend on the mood and sympathetic nature of the staff on the day.

Sorry for been honest, good luck.

Mike.


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## TheDoctor (22 Apr 2010)

I have taken a bike on East Coast a good few times.
While I've always been asked if I have a reservation, I've never had anyone ask to see it...


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## sleekitcollie (22 Apr 2010)

I've travelled on trains with bike a few times and usually manage to book in advance . But going up from inverkeithing to Kingussie in June and phoned to book space and tickets yesterday . Managed to book Perth to Kingussie and the return nxt day but the 1st train from inverkeithin to Perth Is non bookable so I'm going to have to take a chance . Wishing u all the best in ur train journey and the Scottish tour enjoy ( and remember ur "Avon - skin so soft " for the midges


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## vernon (24 Apr 2010)

Wendel said:


> Can I expect to take the bikes though? Which experience did you make? Does train staff usually tolerate that...?
> 
> Thanks & kind regards from Germany
> Wendel



You really be at the mercy of the train manager/ticket inspector. Personally I wouldn't count on being allowed to get on the train without reservations. 

Problems might arise if someone with a legitimate booking attempts to get on at a later station - you might find yourself getting evicted.

I faced the unpleasant prospect of missing a train because some unbooked cyclists had taken the spaces on a train leaving no room for me. To his credit, the train manager held his ground against the protestations of the squatters and refused to allow the train to go on until they got off.

I also had the misfortune of missing a connection in Scotland where bike reservations on some services are strictly enforced. I ended up with a valid bike reservation and an invalid ticket - the train manager only wanted to see the cycle reservation.....

My advice would be to attempt to book a service with bike reservations - you don't want to have your tour ruined by getting stranded and losing a day or so.


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## theloafer (25 Apr 2010)

could you not hire a car.. i use these one way drop off

http://www.europcar.co.uk/car-hire.html


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## Brains (26 Apr 2010)

It depends on the individual train conductor.

Last year we managed to get 12 bikes onto a sevice from Norfolk to London, no reservations and the maximum capacity of the train was 2 bikes 

But another day and another man it would be a case of "more than my jobsworth"


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

If you are traveling from Newcastle to Glasgow you should be fine. 

I'll let you into a little secret.
There is a vehicle called a DVT, or a Driving Van Trailer at one end of the Electric trains, Intercity 225 or the class 91 hauled/propelled trains.

If you are travelling North, then the DVT will almost always be at the very back (London End) past the First Class section. Walk down and ask to put your bikes in there. It's simply an EMPTY coach!!

I always dump my heavy luggage in there when I travel up from London so I don't have to bother about it (you don't have to be a first class passenger either). You only have to ask and they should be willing to do it for you as most people do not even know the space exists so the humble DVT's capacity tends to be grossly underused.
It is the empty bit between where the train guard sits and where the Driver's cab is, so it's secure, and as I say, most people do not even know it's there, partly because it looks the same as the loco at the other end, except that it's not a loco, it's a driving trailer. It's past the First class section too, so you don't get much riff raff in that bit of the train.

Having said that, I'm not sure if it has cycle racks, so you might have to leave them on the floor, I'm not sure as I have only ever used them for luggage (I leave my bags under the metal table usually). I think there are things for securing items though. It might be useful to try and enquire about that, but certainly, the trains DO have the space, so I'd advise you seriously to ask about it.

The DVTs are the ones with the big sliding side door.

I don't know what circumstances would prohibit it's use as I have never encountered any problems with it before (other than once when I was going from London to Glasgow and they had brought my luggage out at about Carstairs without me knowing, so it was sitting there outside the guard's van in the vestibule of the first class coach instead!).

No, you don't have to hire a car, just ask for the DVT.

You will not get a DVT north of Edinburgh though as the Inverness and Aberdeen routes are worked by HSTs, or Intercity 125s to the layman.


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

Why the companies never advertise the DVTs, I don't know. They used to have them on the Intercity and Virgin West Coast services and I only ever saw staff encouraging people to use them once at Euston.


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## TheDoctor (26 Apr 2010)

The DVT is where the bike spaces are, 6 in total IIRC.
If the OP was / is unable to book them, that's almost certainly because they're already full. The East Coast site is the easiest to book bike spaces on - I use it to book tickets on FGW to South Wales.


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

The equivalent on the London Liverpool Street - Harwich and Norwich services is the DMBSO (unless they have now started to use DVTs cascaded from Virgin West Coast).

These are found at the Country End ...sorry, 'Country End' refers to the end leading away from London.

These vehicles exist if you know what you are looking at!


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> The DVT is where the bike spaces are, 6 in total IIRC.
> If the OP was / is unable to book them, that's almost certainly because they're already full. The East Coast site is the easiest to book bike spaces on - I use it to book tickets on FGW to South Wales.



Fairdos, they DO advertise the things after all!!
Well blow me! I've never seen a full DVT in my life!! 

I wonder if it's the same as the seated section of the Sleeper, where they always say it's booked up, but in reality, it isn't anywhere near (no seriously, that happens a lot!), hmmm.*

The DVT is capable of carrying more than 6 too, but of course, it's all down to how they can be secured, etc I suppose.

6 is well measly when you think about the size of the space.

What kind of space is there on the FGW services, bearing in mind those are HSTs?

* - I have traveled on the sleeper at the last minute quite a lot, and often I'm told it's booked up. When I arrive at the station, the fecking thing is usually empty!! Seriously, I'm not making that up!


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## TheDoctor (26 Apr 2010)

FGW - I think it's 4, but I wouldn't swear to it.
EDIT, after a quick Google, it's 6.
The same as in a DVT, despite the fact there's a ruddy great Diesel engine in there too!!!
I've actually taken the Brommie the last few times, as once I get past Swansea I'm on Arriva DMUs. They have two bike spaces, which are always full of luggage. Last time I stood the Brommie on the floor and sat on that!!!


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> FGW - I think it's 4, but I wouldn't swear to it.
> EDIT, after a quick Google, it's 6.
> The same as in a DVT, despite the fact there's a ruddy great Diesel engine in there too!!!



They have the bikes in the Power Car?? Good God!!, that can't do them much good!!
I always though that the bit at the back of a '43 was originally meant to be a guard's and Luggage van but it was far too noisy, not to mention shakey from 30+ tonnes of Paxman Valenta or Mirlees power Unit churning away to itself!! (They have MTUs these days, I know).

Would have thought bikes and so on would be in the MK3 behind.

You can tell I have never traveled with a bike, can't you??



> I've actually taken the Brommie the last few times, as once I get past Swansea I'm on Arriva DMUs. They have two bike spaces, which are always full of luggage. Last time I stood the Brommie on the floor and sat on that!!!


Brommie??

Bromsgove??


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## TheDoctor (26 Apr 2010)

Brompton M6R - 6 gears and a rack. Not my fastest bike, but it does the job.

It's a partitioned off bit - it might actually be in the end of the first carriage, not sure now.


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## Auntie Helen (26 Apr 2010)

We once got 23 bikes (including a recumbent trike) on the Norwich train to Liverpool Street after one of my rides. This is the service with a Guard's Van and there's masses of room in there, as long as you know who needs to get their bike off first. It would still only be possible to book six bicycle spaces, however.


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

There is a bit at the front of the MK3, I agree, but since in a previous life my only aim in life when on an HST was to get to the front droplight, I never looked too closely either!


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

Auntie Helen said:


> We once got 23 bikes (including a recumbent trike) on the Norwich train to Liverpool Street after one of my rides. This is the service with a Guard's Van and there's masses of room in there, as long as you know who needs to get their bike off first. It would still only be possible to book six bicycle spaces, however.



Yes that'll be the aforementioned DBSO I talked of earlier.

DBSO - I said DMBSO earlier but I was wrong as here is no motor in it. It's only a Driving Brake Second Open.

So there you go!

23 is more the amount I'd allow to have in these vehicles if I ran the trains.

Of course, you could have been creating a potential exit hazard for the driver if the train was about to crash and he tried to leg it out of the way in time so that he didn't get crushed along with the cab, or, there was a fire!


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## Auntie Helen (26 Apr 2010)

D'you know, Mad Doug Biker, I can only understand about half of what you are saying (all technical stuff!) I hope that Wendel the OP from Deutschland can follow all this...


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## Mad Doug Biker (26 Apr 2010)

Ah but I feel the same when you lot talk about bits of bike!


DVT - not Deep Vein Trombosis (we were familiar with the term DVT LONG before the medical thing became well known), but Driving Van Trailer.

The clue is in the name really, it's a Trailer that is Driven (propelled from behind) and is a luggage Van. DVT.

DBSO - the same really except it's a Standard Open (I said Second before) 

HST - High Speed Train, or Intercity 125 as most people still know them as.

Just thank your lucky stars we aren't talking about Southern Region Units and all the different 3 letter names they were given!!
THAT'D be SAD!!


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## Wendel (29 Apr 2010)

Thank you folks for the discussion.

I also thought of taking a car but the one way rental is quite expensive.
Right, I'm heading for the Arran ferry and I checked the link via Carlisle. There is only few direct connections from Newcastle to e.g. Kilmarnock and there seems to be no discount on them. So, the fastest and cheapest (and most frequent) way is via Glasgow.

I see I shall not rely on being lucky  so I bought another ticket *with* cycle reservations for a later train, to be on the safe side. If we won't make it for the first booked connection, we'll try the next. With the latter connection we will still catch the same ferry *, so this will be fine.
* What about reliability of train times...? The latter connection has a direct link to the ferry.

See you in UK... 
Regards from Germany
Wendel


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## Auntie Helen (29 Apr 2010)

Wendel, reliability of trains is a bit varied. Usually they are OK but there can be delays and sometimes you don't know why. There is a whole sub-culture of humour in the UK about excuses for late trains ("leaves on the line", "the wrong kind of snow", etc). There's not much that can be done about these events. Plus one of the railway workers' unions is doing some strikes at the moment, although I don't think there's anything planned in the future.

You can usually check up in advance if there are any 'planned engineering works' here. The information changes so it's worth looking at it every week or so as your holiday approaches. Usually when there are engineering works (maintenance of the track) they put on buses instead - which won't take bicycles - so that could also cause a problem.

The train that has the direct link to the ferry might mean that the ferry waits for the train, but it might not.

When you're doing your ride in Scotland I will be doing a tour of the Mosel, taking the train from Hoek van Holland to Trier via Venlo/Mönchengladbach/Koblenz. Do you happen to know anything about the new Eurobahn trains (the RE13 line) and why they aren't allowed in Holland, and whether this is being sorted out or whether we will have to change trains again in Kaldenkirchen. I can only find a few German newspaper reports and nothing official. Thought you might have more of an idea where to look - Deutsche Bahn's website doesn't seem to explain it at all...


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## toroddf (29 Apr 2010)

Arran ferry......... I guess that means the ultimate destination is Islay ? There may be some disruptions on that ferry now. They are removing a sunken ship just outside the ferry port before a new ferry is being introduced early next year. 

You will love Arran though. The south coast is extreme hard, the direct route up to Lochranza is pretty easy with only a big hill (200 meters above sea level) just before Lochranza. I have plenty of info on my homepage.


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## vernon (29 Apr 2010)

toroddf said:


> I have plenty of info on my homepage.



And your home page is found at.......??


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## toroddf (29 Apr 2010)

here and a more general Scotland tour guide at here

More tours, a lot more tours, will be added later.


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## Wendel (30 Apr 2010)

Toroddf, Islay is too close to be the ultimate destination. 
The tour will roughly go like this: Arran - Oban - Fort William - Ardnamurchan - Mull - Oban - Inveraray - Helensburgh (9 days)
I know about the hilly profiles; I need to consider the hills with respect to my co-cyclist.  I'll visit your website, thanks.

Helen, I saw your Mosel plans  but it'll be after my return (I'll leave Newcastle on Sunday 23rd). Please tell me exactle which train route you mean and I'll check. However, the RE routes (RegionalExpress) are fine and usually have plenty space for cycles.


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## Auntie Helen (30 Apr 2010)

Wendel, it's the RE13 from Venlo to Hamm (NRW) via Düsseldorf. They have apparently put a new type of train on this line (Eurobahn) and it isn't allowed to be used in Holland yet, so you have to take a normal train from Venlo to Kaldenkirchen (4 minutes!) over the border, then change onto the Eurobahn. It seems that DB is trying to get Holland to authorise use of the Eurobahn, but I'm not sure when that is likely to happen. I've done this journey a few times and the old DB train at Venlo was pretty tricky for my trike to get on and off so I'd be delighted if the Eurobahn will be ready for a month's time, but I can't seem to find that out. The rest of the journey is fine with the trike, the only irritation being that Koblenz doesn't have lifts on the platforms so I have to carry the trike up and down stairs. 

We're travelling on a Schönes-Wochenende ticket and our outgoing journey is over Pfingsten so I'm wondering if the trains will be full of people... I know that last year when I was touring over Pfingsten it was a bit tricky to find accommodation; we've pre-booked that, but I'm wondering if DB will get annoyed about a trike, bike and tandem filling up their trains...


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## toroddf (30 Apr 2010)

Wendel said:


> Toroddf, Islay is too close to be the ultimate destination.
> The tour will roughly go like this: Arran - Oban - Fort William - Ardnamurchan - Mull - Oban - Inveraray - Helensburgh (9 days)



Good choice !!!!! 

I have done all of that, with the exception of the Tarbert to Oban road. I will do that one in 8 weeks time on my way to Western Isles. Please feel free to advice me about this road if you are back before I leave. 

A couple of hints:

The Northern loop of Mull over Calgary Bay and Dervaig is brilliant. The funniest and most magic evening I have ever had on a bike. Please note there is two big hills between Dervaig and Tobermory. 
Calgary Bay have some of Scotland's best wild-camp sites and a superb beach. 

The Inveraray to Helensburgh road is good too. The road down from Rest And Be Thankful have some really bad tarmac and big potholes due to frequent rockfalls. Beware ! 
The road along Loch Long is brilliant technical cycling with some small undulations (and far better than the Loch Lomond road), just punctuated with a short 20 % hill at the end.
The Helensburgh promenade down at the sea front is excellent too. 

Have a good journey and beware of the sheep on Mull.


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## Wendel (30 Apr 2010)

Torodff, thanks for the hints. We're looking forward a lot to coming to Scotland.  Please prepare acceptable weather. Last weekend I was in South England with wonderful weather. 
Where are you located?

Helen, Eurobahn is a private train company operating in the Bahn network. Private operators seem to be growing in Germany. In my region (Berlin/Potsdam) there are also some private operators, and travelling with them is very pleasant. However, here they run smaller trains with less cycle space than the Bahn RE trains.

For your planned route, they write that they expect confirmation for their new trains for Holland by end of April (well, this is today...). I assume you know this route's website ?
I suggest to contact them directly (you speak German, don't you?), to check the trike issue / train size / cycle space and the need to change. I can ask them as well if you like.
Anyway, they write that for the time being one has to change at Kaldenkirchen (as you wrote) just across the platform, and I'm absolutely sure that'll work.

You wrote your tour starts May 29th - but this is one week after Pfingsten. Did your tour plan change?
In any case, in good weather trains might be quite full... but since you enter the train where it starts i.e. at Kaldenkirchen (or Venlo), there shouldn't be a problem to enter.


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## Auntie Helen (30 Apr 2010)

You're right about Pfingsten - I just checked my diary and it's the 23rd May. Not sure where I got confused, except that originally we were going a week earlier on the tour but the 29th onward fitted in better with some of the others who were going to come. Well that should mean the trains are easier.

When I have travelled this route before the trains haven't been very busy so I think we should be OK to get on at Venlo/Kaldenkirchen. The difficulty is that we have to all travel together (because of the Schönes-Wochenende ticket) but we have a couple of awkward bicycles. I shall practise my charming smile and my amusingly-English-accented German.

I assume the Schönes-Wochenende ticket still works on the private train companies? That wasn't something I had thought about before, I assumed that the RE line was Deutsche Bahn as normal, but that the Eurobahn was a type of train, not a new company. I shall keep an eye on the website and see if the train goes directly from Venlo by the time we travel, but the changing trains will be fine I am sure - I expect the Eurobahn will wait for the DB train from Venlo...

Thanks for your help Wendel - it's much appreciated. I do speak German but I find it hard to understand technical stuff in railway websites sometimes. They don't teach you that kind of vocabulary at Uni, it's all about the Wiedervereinigung and die Ökosystem these days...


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## Wendel (30 Apr 2010)

Auntie Helen said:


> I assume the Schönes-Wochenende ticket still works on the private train companies?


Yes. Obviously yes. 
There are those private train operators operating together with the Bahn within local "Verkehrsverbund" which is kind of group organization with common tariffs and schedules (example: Verkehrsverbund Berlin/Brandenburg, VBB). If you check the connections on the Bahn website, a price is given for your route so it's all "one pot" and I dare say the SWE ticket is valid. To be really sure, it's better to ask.
Changing at Kaldenkirchen (trains waiting) will be no problem, I'm sure, because it's a dedicated one due to the temporary train mismatch.

Btw, there are also few private long-distance train operators in Germany (e.g. Interconnex), and those use the Bahn rail network on selected routes but they have an own tariff scheme where Bahn tickets are *not* valid.
Anyway, Eurobahn is not going long distance.


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## Auntie Helen (30 Apr 2010)

Wendel said:


> temporary train mismatch


That is a brilliant phrase and not one that I've heard the British railways using before. They ought to store it up when they can't use 'leaves on the line' or 'the wrong kind of snow' or 'a cow on the line' (which happened when my husband was getting the train to North Wales before now).


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## toroddf (30 Apr 2010)

Wendel said:


> Torodff, thanks for the hints. We're looking forward a lot to coming to Scotland.  Please prepare acceptable weather. Last weekend I was in South England with wonderful weather.
> Where are you located?



Paisley, the first station after Glasgow on your 50 minutes long train journey between Glasgow and Ardrossan Harbour. 

I lived in Helensburgh for many years and I know this area well. I am also filling in the white spots on my cycle-map in between working these days in my preparation for that Western Isles & Western Ross tour in July. 

Please remember to buy the local midge repellent stuff on arrival in Scotland. The European stuff does not work here.


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## Wendel (30 Apr 2010)

toroddf said:


> Please remember to buy the local midge repellent stuff on arrival in Scotland. The European stuff does not work here.


Yes I know. Are these lovely cute midges expected to be active before May 23rd? I hoped they would start their job end of May only...
Which repellent can you recommend?


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## toroddf (30 Apr 2010)

Boots Chemists have a good shop at the Glasgow Central station just on your 50 meters long walk between the London train and the Ardrossan train (on the station). I use their own brand midge repellent.
I am going past that shop tomorrow on my way to a long ride so I will check it out. 

Please note that you are arriving on platform 1-3 from London and have to cross over to platform 11 -14 (to the extreme left) on Central Station.


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## Wendel (4 May 2010)

Wendel said:


> I bought another ticket *with* cycle reservations for a later train, to be on the safe side. If we won't make it for the first booked connection, we'll try the next. With the latter connection we will still catch the same ferry *, so this will be fine.


In addition to my last week's post:
Since I still hope to catch the 1st connection (w/o cycle reservations), I bought the mentioned 2nd 'safety' ticket to Glasgow only (with cycle reservations) and not to Ardrossan, and only in case I need to use it I would buy the Glasgow-Ardrossan ticket over there. Now I was told that for local trains (like Glasgow-Ardrossan) cycle reservations might also be advised. @toroddf: Do the trains on that service have sufficient cycle spaces? What do you recommend me to do?
In detail: The 1st train leaves Newcastle at 12:05. So, a few minutes after 12 I'll know whether I'll have to use the 2nd connection. If so, the ferry train leaves Glasgow at 16:50. Thus, I would buy the Glasgow-Ardrossan ticket in Newcastle just after 12 i.e. almost 5 hrs before departure. Can I expect to get cycle reservations, too?
I hope my questions are not too complicated...


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## toroddf (4 May 2010)

I have never ever heard about cycle reservation on Glasgow-Ardrossan Harbour. But then again; I normally cycle this way on a retired railway track. 
But yes, I would recommend cycle reservation if they say so. I may be able to do that for you if you give me the times. But in May ? I don't think so. I have never ever been denied access. We are talking about local service trains. Trains which is almost like prams. No, I will have a better chance to marry the Loch Ness Monster than you having problems here. But I will check this out.

When are you arriving in Glasgow ? If you have plenty of time; please also note that you can take the Glasgow to Largs train instead of that Ardrossan Harbour stress fest train (5 minutes transfer from train to ferry). 
You jump of at Saltcoats and take a 5 - 10 minutes long cycle trip to the ferry along the sea front. The Largs trains leave at 14.45, 15.45 and 16.18. 
That will leave you better time to sort out the multi journey ferry tickets (a saving with up to 70 %) in Ardrossan. Print a Saltcoats - Ardrossan Harbour map from www.multimap.com
This is actually what I intent to do myself in July. I will take the Largs train, jump off in Saltcoats and take the time to sort out the big savings multi journey ferry tickets in Ardrossan instead of being stressed with on that Ardrossan Harbour train.

Did I answer your questions ?

Edit: You can actually take the Glasgow - Largs and the Glasgow - Ardrossan South Beach train to *Ardrossan South Beach* instead. This is only 5-10 minutes dead flat cycle ride to the ferry terminal. 

The train times are 14.45, 15.15, 15.45 and 16.18. 

I did this twelve years ago and it was dead easy cycling from that railway station. Hmm....... I think me too will change to this train station in July.

It was nice to sort out the ferry tickets in peace and quiet without getting heart attack and sudden death in the process.


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## Wendel (4 May 2010)

Thanks - if you never ever heard about problems it'll be fine. This is what I wanted to know. I'll attend your Nessie wedding, btw. 

I want to catch the Ardrossan ferry departing 18:00.


The 1st train from Newcastle arrives at Glasgow at 14:47. Sufficient time to get any train to Ardrossan.


The 2nd train (if I won't make it for the 1st) arrives at Glasgow at 16:27, and in this case I need to take the 16:50 train arriving 17:44 at Ardrossan Harbour. No buffer here, that's why I'm asking.
Thanks for the Saltcoats hint and for your support. The Largs train also stops at Ardrossan South Beach which is even closer to the ferry.


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## toroddf (4 May 2010)

Btw. Don't buy the Glasgow- Ardrossan train tickets in Newcastle. Wait until you are in Glasgow because there is no discounts on the train tickets anyway. We are a bit informal here in Scotland. But go for the Ardrossan South Beach trains and not the ferry train. Less stress = more joy.
And it is not bad sitting on the quay in Ardrossan, waiting for the ferry and admiring the landscape too. Mostly the arriving ferry and the GoatFell on Arran, it has to be said. But still; no stress.

I have the Ardrossan map in the front of me. The travel to the ferry is approx 800 meters. It is off the train and the road to the left. Then you hit the road to the ferry, take it to the right and you are there.


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## Wendel (4 May 2010)

No discounts, I know, therefore why not buy it in Newcastle? It's an anytime ticket. And we'll have to change platforms in Glasgow with loaded cycles within 20 minutes, so I'll be glad not to spend additional time for ticket purchase.

If we make it for the 1st train, we will have 2 hrs to enjoy everything before the ferry departs. 
But if not and we need to take the 2nd train, then time will be short. The train's arrival time (17:44) is aligned with the ferry departure (18:00).

GoogleMaps tells me that it's 1.8km from Ardrossan South Beach station to the harbour (and still 900m from Ardrossan Town station).

In any case, I'll let you know after return.


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## toroddf (6 May 2010)

Btw. The midges are out and very much alive. I donated blood twice yesterday on my 90 miles bike ride. 

Grrrrrrrr...................


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## Wendel (7 May 2010)

Oh, bad!!! 
However, thanks for the info.


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## philtaylor38 (11 May 2010)

Hi, I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but my advice would be to contact east coast and get everything sorted first. Friday's are the busiest days to travel at anytime with all sorts of people going home after working or studying away, stag/hen parties travelling to Newcastle. Trains are full and standing, so to turn up without a cycle reservation may well cause problems.


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## Wendel (14 May 2010)

Now, everything fine. The Guy let us in, 5 Cycle spaces but much physical Space around. Train from Glasgow to ardrossan almost empty. Now we're in brodick / arran, sun &warm. :-) And no midges so far...


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## Auntie Helen (15 May 2010)

Glad it is going well so far. Good luck with the rest of the tour!


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## Wendel (25 May 2010)

*back from Scotland*

Just returned. It was a wonderful tour. 
As written in my previous post (from mobile), we got on the Newcastle-Glasgow train w/o having cycle reservations, 6 cycles in 5 spaces - the luggage coach is huge and the 'steward' was friendly.
The connecting train from Glasgow towards Ardrossan was almost empty. No dedicated cycle spaces (same as when returning from Helensburgh to Glasgow) so we put our bikes in the wheelchair space. No problem at all.
During the tour we decided to take the train from Mallaig via Glenfinnan and Fort William to Arrochar & Tarbet (and even got a bargain price). It was just great, and 20° up in the highlands.
Btw, there is a very well signposted NCN route (almost car-free) from Newcastle ferry terminal to downtown Newcastle (10 miles). Well done!

Summary: Taking cycles by train in UK was a very good experience - do again.

PS: No midges at all, except 2 midges while cooking on the platform of Lochailort station just before the Hogwarts Express passed by.


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## Wendel (25 May 2010)

PPS: Helen, have fun on your tour to Germany! And I wish that you're lucky with your train plans as we were lucky in UK. (I see you have good support by the Radforum for local routes.) Have a safe journey in good weather, full of impressions!


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## toroddf (25 May 2010)

Hi and I am happy to see that you did not pay that full midge tax.......... which means the rest of us from CycleChat have to pay extra midge tax this year. 

While you are standing in the naughty corner for the next twenty minutes; how was the road from Kennacraig to Oban ?


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## Wendel (25 May 2010)

toroddf said:


> While you are standing in the naughty corner for the next twenty minutes


What does that mean...?



toroddf said:


> how was the road from Kennacraig to Oban ?


It was OK. As an A class road with some traffic but not too much. Some up and down as usual . Beautiful on the shores of Loch Fyne. From Ardrishaig we followed the NCN 78 towards Oban which follows the Crinan canal - great! That route meets A816 behind Kilmartin. We didn't follow NCN 78 further on B840 but kept on A816 because we stayed in Kilmelford (2 nights).


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## toroddf (25 May 2010)

Hi and thanx.

Naughty corner is where you put a child who has misbehaved. The child had to stare into the wall for some minutes while it was contemplating it's sins. Naughty corners was much used in the old days when children grew to be well behaved adults......... but has now fallen out of fashion. Hence today's world.

6 weeks until I leave for the Western Isles.... I cannot wait.


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## Auntie Helen (25 May 2010)

Wendel said:


> PPS: Helen, have fun on your tour to Germany! And I wish that you're lucky with your train plans as we were lucky in UK. (I see you have good support by the Radforum for local routes.) Have a safe journey in good weather, full of impressions!


Hi Wendel, glad to hear you had a really good trip.

We've had to do some last-minute changing to our train plans due to engineering works between Venlo and Mönchengladbach but hopefully it will work out OK. We're looking forward to the trip and watching the weather forecast for the Koblenz area - at the moment it looks pretty good. But I don't want rain as I don't want to take my front mudguards (they rattle)... decisions, decisions...


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## Wendel (26 May 2010)

toroddf said:


> Naughty corner is where you put a child who has misbehaved.


I see. But why me? Because I am generous and let the midges drink Scottish blood? 



Auntie Helen said:


> ... watching the weather forecast for the Koblenz area - at the moment it looks pretty good. But I don't want rain as I don't want to take my front mudguards (they rattle)... decisions, decisions...


Well, take them. Rain may always come even in normally good weather.


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## toroddf (26 May 2010)

Wendel.
I have forgotten to ask you if you found any good free camping sites around Kilmartin ? 
That minus plus minus ten miles from Kilmartin ?

I just have a small tent and a tired body for that night.


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## Wendel (27 May 2010)

toroddf said:


> good free camping sites around Kilmartin?


Well, I didn't have a focus on camping because we stayed in B&Bs. However, from Ardrishaig we left the road and followed the NCN#78 via Bellanoch and Slockavulin which was a very nice alternative. Near Slockavulin the route follows some off-road pathes (with gates), passes Kilmartin and joins the road again near the B840 junction. I think if you follow these off-road pathes, you'll find some nice place to pitch your tent near Kilmartin.
Hint: visit Carnassarie castle just north of Kilmartin!


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