# Single speed to fixed?



## Ibbots (29 Mar 2011)

I have been commuting by single speed for about 2 years now - over 30 mile round trip with starting with a big drop hitting 35mph just freewheeling on the steep bit (Chorley Old Road from top of Horwich into Bolton - at least one of you knows it!) and obviously climb the same hill on the way home. At present I run 47:18 ratio on a converted road bike which I find can do the climb reasonably quickly in ideal conditions and can make it when battling the usual headwind. I push along at 19-20mph on the flat at a reasonable cadence. 

Now I'm toying with the idea of going fixed for my nice weather commuter. I have ridden fixed but only at Manchester Velodrome where I did the SQT's for about 18 months and not sure that really compares to the road experience. 

So...

1. Should I really bother, I've got a nice bike I like riding and doesn't have any of the inherent/perceived problems of riding fixed, particularly in heavy traffic with a lot of lights, etc?

2. I am not worried about the climb but the morning descent might be a bit of a challenge, do any of you have to deal with steep descents, is it going to be possible on the ratio I need to get back up again without ripping my knees apart?

3. Assuming the answer to 1. and 2. is yes, stop being a sissy, what frame and rear wheel/wheelset can you recommend? Current bike is a Kinesis KiC2 road frame, Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork with Kysrium ES wheels and is fantasic to ride, fast and responsive. If I go ahead I plan to transfer all the kit, forks and front wheel to the new frame, at least in the short term, and want to achive a similar quality ride and a good looking bike if possible. 

4. Back brake, yes or no? Obviously limits the frame choice but I think a back brake might be handy to help me control descent speed.

5. Would I be better off just buying a ready made bike like a Langster instead (assuming I can find room for bike no 6 as I'll likely be sleeping in the bike shed too)?

Cheers


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## 4F (29 Mar 2011)

1. Yes stop being a sissy  

2. 35 mph downhill is not for the feint hearted on a fixed  

3. Could you not just get a flip flop hub rather than change the whole bike with fixed one side and single speed the other. You could of course get a fixed / fixed hub. I have this with a 17 on one side and a 18 on the other. 

4. Without doubt so you can control you speed better on point 2

5. Get a bigger shed


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## totallyfixed (29 Mar 2011)

Ibbots said:


> I have been commuting by single speed for about 2 years now - over 30 mile round trip with starting with a big drop hitting 35mph just freewheeling on the steep bit (Chorley Old Road from top of Horwich into Bolton - at least one of you knows it!) and obviously climb the same hill on the way home. At present I run 47:18 ratio on a converted road bike which I find can do the climb reasonably quickly in ideal conditions and can make it when battling the usual headwind. I push along at 19-20mph on the flat at a reasonable cadence.
> 
> Now I'm toying with the idea of going fixed for my nice weather commuter. I have ridden fixed but only at Manchester Velodrome where I did the SQT's for about 18 months and not sure that really compares to the road experience.
> 
> ...



1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Just use what you have
4. Yes
5. Too subjective to give an opinion

One thing for sure, you will get stronger. I run 50 x 18 on 175mm cranks in a hilly area, it's surprising how soon you adjust.


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## Pennine-Paul (29 Mar 2011)

Hi, I can remember that road vaguely from when I lived in Bury,

I currently live in the hills above Oldham and the hills here are much

steeper than where you are,I only use a front brake, never had any 

problems with excessive speed,just feather your front brake and 

use your legs to stop the speed building up too much.

I find riding fixed in traffic much easier than singlespeed as you

can control your speed much better,My ratio is currently 44/16 and find

I can get up most hills with this.


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## Ibbots (29 Mar 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> 1. Yes
> 2. Yes
> *3. Just use what you have*
> 4. Yes
> ...



Thanks everyone for such quick responses

Totallyfixed - Not only am I a sissy, I think I am being a bit thick here. You are suggesting that I use what I have to run fixed. At the moment I am using a standard road wheel with 9/10 spd freehub and spacers to fit a single cog in a standard road frame with vertical drop outs and a sprung tensioner. So could I just get a wheel with fixed hub to fit that frame and carry on with the tensioner? I rather imagined I would need narrower track frame and wheel like I had on the Velodrome - Dolan Track Champion that I sold a while ago. Or is it possible to convert the Mavic freehub to fixed without ruining it? If so this would be ideal and I could spend my birthday money on something else.

Cheers


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## Bicycle (29 Mar 2011)

1. Do bother. Definitely bother. I'm a recent convert (6 months) and it's a real giggle. I still ride a geared bike as well, but the fixed-gear is a complete hoot.

2. Fast descents are best got into slowly, over time. I have done an indicated 35 mph on my 69" fixed gear, but it was a case of just going for it and with hindsight I can see there was NO WAY i could have stopped in an orderly fashion. Just let descending speed creep up over time, add speed in increments where it's safer to do so and practise stopping from speed. Big hills on lightly used A Roads are a good place to start experimenting with speed and its control.

3. I have no views on this. Whatever's cheap.... 

4. Yes. Yes. Yes. Keep the rear brake. I tried without when I first build my fixed, just because I thought it looked 'cooler' (and because I wanted to remove everything I could possiby remove). It was just extremely scary without the brake. I am now grateful for my rear brake on almost every ride. I know there are those who hate them, but if you're getting used to a new thing - and fixed wheel is VERY DIFFERENT - then it may be best to keep as many things as you can unchanged. I don't think I'll ever junk the rear brake... You do slowly develop an ability to slow (and even stop) by pushing against the pedal smoothly, but I still like to have a rear.

5. I have no views on this. Mine is made up from an old, steel road bike with horizontal dropouts. Without the frame lying around I wouldn't have descended into this sweet, necter-dripping madness of once-unknown delights. But I'm jolly glad I did.


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## 4F (29 Mar 2011)

Just looked at your bike, vertical dropouts so fixed is not an option unliess you also change to an eccentric bottom bracket. I did what bicycle did and converted my old 10 speed Dawes which had horizontal droupouts to fixed. Total spend about £ 100.00


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## Pennine-Paul (29 Mar 2011)

You'll need a new rear wheel with a threaded section for the fixed sprocket and a lockring

Have a look on charlie the bikemongers site at the fixed wheels, there's a good pic of what u need

eccentric hubs are not a cheap option,You can pick up an old steel frame off ebay for a snip, mine cost 99p


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## Ibbots (31 Mar 2011)

After some deliberation decided just to get on with it and ordered a Langster from Harry Hall in Manchester, trying to sort something out with my current bike was going to be too much faffing. 

Hopefully pick it up tomorrow and then all I need to do is transfer the lo pro bars and levers, consider swapping the breaks for the 105 calipers I have knocking about if there's any advantage in that, swap the lumpy looking seat post and saddle for the carbon post and SLR saddle I like from the other bike and start the search for some nice wheels - possibly funded by the sale of frame and road wheels. 

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

T


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## trio25 (31 Mar 2011)

Glad you've gone for it. 

I ride a langster and I know the hill you mean well, I rode it fixed on monday and found it fine! It's not so steep to be scary fixed. Prefer fixed in traffic as well!


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## fossyant (31 Mar 2011)

Fixed is best. Went in at the deep end two years ago fixed/fixed hub 70" one side, 74" the other - live 10 miles SE of Manchester, so hilly..... used 70" for a week or two, then went 74". Recently went for 78" as chain ring needed replacing....sorted.

Scary first few times down hill, but it gets a doddle controlling the speed after a few months.


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## skudupnorth (31 Mar 2011)

You should be fine on that road on a fixed,i find reducing the speed through the drivechain/pedals more easier the more you ride (brakes are the emergency option nowadays !) The worst bit is all the parked cars !!! 
I use my fixed more and more nowadays for commuting to Bolton which is a shame because the roads are pants,especially along Manchester road from Moses Gate,and i should keep it nice for big rides like last Sundays ride to Blackpool.


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## Ibbots (3 Apr 2011)

Well it's built and I've had my first ride. Done quite a bit to the bike with wheels and kit - perhaps should have just bought a frame, but I tend to do things the difficult, expensive way! The headtube is a bit longer than I normally like even with the stem sat right on top of the headset cap and no risers but a higher position might not be a bad thing for commuting. Will try it for a while but might fit some low profile bars with a bit of a drop if don't like it in the long run.

The first ride was "interesting", particularly the first steep descent when I had a bit of a panic trying to control the speed and felt like the pedals were running away with me until I remembered the brakes. Went round a few times and found I could spin up to about 30mph before having to feather the brakes. Pot holes and speed humps caused some excitement, overcoming the urge to coast over took some mental discipline. All in, managed the slowest 30 miles for quite some time and my legs are aching today. Think I'll save the first commute for a quiet day.


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## Bicycle (5 Apr 2011)

Congratulations on building it and getting the first ride in.

Your first-ride experiences were not unlike mine.

Do make sure also that your first commute is on a dry day.

Even after riding fixed for some weeks, I found the slowing/stopping capacity quite different to anything I'd ridden until then.

Wet surfaces seem to exacerbate this difference.

I'd come to rely on an ability (in extremis) to stop or swerve an MTB or road bike that I simply lacked on a fixed-wheel bike. Hugging my son's wheel on his training rides was simply not an option. 

Fixed-wheel is huge fun, but do your initial learning in the dry.

And congratulations again!


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## Ibbots (5 Apr 2011)

Bicycle said:


> Congratulations on building it and getting the first ride in.
> 
> Your first-ride experiences were not unlike mine.
> 
> ...




Thanks - I think it will be quite a while before I'll consider doing away with the rear brake, although already browsing some nice titanium fixed frames. This is going to be my dry weather commuter, I prefer the reliability and consistency of the hydraulic disc brakes on my Inbred to road brakes for wet weather commuting.

Checked the weather and tomorrow looks like the day. Insurance confirmed and prepared instructions for family, I want to be buried in lycra with my bikes.

Cheers, T


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## Spin City (5 Apr 2011)

Good Luck Ibbots. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. 

I bought my fixed wheel bike, a Genesis Skyline, from Harry Halls just over 3 years ago. 
I've now done over 8000km (5000 miles) on it and I always enjoy riding it. 

This weekend I did my longest ride on it which was approximately 210km (130 miles).

You'll soon be singing the praises of riding fixed.


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## 3narf (15 Apr 2011)

I'm going to have a go soon, though I'm not sure it'll suit me. I absolutely love singlespeed, it just seems to be right for me. I can just go flat out, or fly up a hill then coast for a few yards to give my legs a rest.

Short blasts like this just suit me...


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## Ibbots (15 Apr 2011)

3narf said:


> I'm going to have a go soon, though I'm not sure it'll suit me. I absolutely love singlespeed, it just seems to be right for me. I can just go flat out, or fly up a hill then coast for a few yards to give my legs a rest.
> 
> Short blasts like this just suit me...



Jury is still out. Have done a few commutes and 50 miles today. Not finding any difference in climbing, possibly a little quicker but that could just be new bike buzz. Slower in traffic, but enjoying learning to control the bike and think speed will pick up with experience. Descending is still a challenge - I put a cadence sensor on the other day, max 143rpm at 28mph. I am still having to use the brakes to control speed on descents where would just freewheel on singlespeed. What I am missing most from single speed is the sprint and glide at top speed.

I am going to persevere, even bought another frame to use the bits left over from pimping the Langster and built a faster nasty weather/winter commute lump.


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## 3narf (16 Apr 2011)

Ibbots said:


> max 143rpm at 28mph.



What gear is that, BTW?


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## Bicycle (16 Apr 2011)

3narf said:


> What gear is that, BTW?




The only one he's got!

(Author starts to chuckle and then laughs so much he slips out of his chair. No-one else even smiles. Same old story).


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## Ibbots (16 Apr 2011)

3narf said:


> What gear is that, BTW?



69" (42/16) when I did this, now got 73" on the Langster but sticking with 69 on the lump for now - need an easier gear to get up the last hill home when the wind is blowing


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## BADGER.BRAD (16 Apr 2011)

My route to/from work has some very steep hills so It was very difficult to select a gear ratio suitable for going up the hills but not spinning too fast on the downhill, I had to compromise by just using the brakes heavily on the downhill wearing brake blocks out very fast plus most likley wheel rims. I later used single speed which made my ride to work much faster and easier. In my view stick with the single speed if you have steep downhills to cope with.


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## smokeysmoo (17 Apr 2011)

I live in Bolton and know that hill intimately! I commute down Tonge Moor Road and on my Langster Steel that gets quite hairy, (I'm a relative newbie to fixed riding), so C.O.Road would scare the living day lights out of me TBH.

I got the 2010 Langster Steel, as, 
1) I think it looks better than the 2011
2), It has two brakes as standard, the 2011 has none!
3) It was a fantastic deal at Evans 

Despite what die hard fixed guys might say, I have no intention of ever removing my back brake. I find I need to control my speed regularly, and as a larger rider I'm not convinced the front brake would cope well enough on it's own.

I swopped the 42T Zen Messenger crank for a 48T Sugino RD that I already had, and I fitted an 18T Halo track cog and a half link chain for preference.
I've also swopped the track bars out for a pair of bull horns as I just couldn't get comfy on the track bars.
I find it fine for my short daily commute, (really glad I don't live in Horwich though!), and I've even started to venture further afield at weekends instead of using my geared road bikes.

Fixed is a pretty steep learning curve, I keep telling myself to keep my legs spinning as it's too easy to forget and try to coast, not good! But I just love the whole connected feeling you get with riding fixed, and I find it so incredibly smooth as well.
Overall rating, 10/10, everyone should have to give it a go once in their lifetime


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## trio25 (17 Apr 2011)

I regularly commute down Tonge Moor Road fixed as well, 2010 Alu langster. The corner near Matalan is the bit that scares me, I definetly need both brakes!


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## Ibbots (18 Apr 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> (really glad I don't live in Horwich though!)




That's a bit strong, anyway I live at the posh end!

Tried the alternative descent this morning (New Chapel Lane, down the side of The Jolly Crofters and out on Chorley New Road which is my preferred route into Bolton, avoiding all the parked cars, junctions and lights). Steeper with added speed humps and sharp turns - a little hairy and was braking hard all the way. I think it will be a while before I consider taking the back brake off. Otherwise learning that I hardly need the brakes, though comforting to know they are there. 

I have bullhorns on both my fixed bikes, though I have cut off the curve at the end. Great position for commuting, low enough to get aero if I want and yet brakes always to hand, even when out of the saddle, and good visibility in traffic.


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2011)

trio25 said:


> I regularly commute down Tonge Moor Road fixed as well, 2010 Alu langster. The corner near Matalan is the bit that scares me, I definetly need both brakes!


God I hate that corner! It's always full of general crud and detritis and pushes you farther into the carriageway than you really want to go, glad I run Schwalbe Durano+ or I think I'd have shares in an inner tube company 
I'm sure it's an adverse camber too, so it gives me no confidence regardless of the weather conditions.

I actually hate that corner when I'm going home too, reason being the inconsiderate drivers who decide to drive in the gutter! It does actually turns me into a tarmac terroist on occasion, and I really don't like that tag, but at times it's either that, or use the pavement, or come to a standstill and then set off again, (not fun when you are running 48x18), or find myself under some dozy twonks wheels!

What time do you commute that stretch?


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2011)

Ibbots said:


> That's a bit strong, anyway I live at the posh end!
> 
> Only joking Buddy.




I still think your brave/mad/both  Claypool Road is a hell of a descent isn't it?

I think it will be a lifetime before I take my back brake off. I don't know how these guys do the huge skids on their fixed bikes. Not that I want to, but when I try and just use my legs to stop from speed it's a very scary thing  

I know the gearing makes a huge difference, and I guess 48 x 18's not ideal for leg braking, but I just can't see a time that I want to rely just my front brake, even if I develop calf muscles like Mr Universe!


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## Ibbots (18 Apr 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> I still think your brave/mad/both  Claypool Road is a hell of a descent isn't it?
> 
> I think it will be a lifetime before I take my back brake off. I don't know how these guys do the huge skids on their fixed bikes. Not that I want to, but when I try and just use my legs to stop from speed it's a very scary thing
> 
> I know the gearing makes a huge difference, and I guess 48 x 18's not ideal for leg braking, but I just can't see a time that I want to rely just my front brake, even if I develop calf muscles like Mr Universe!



New Chapel/Claypool Rd is a little more challenging on fixed, really enjoy flying down it when can freewheel - best avoided if there's a frost however.


There's a moment in this promo where a guy skids which is quite impressive. I guess it might be easy on a smaller gear and you must have to unweight the back wheel somehow. http://mashsf.com/cinelli_page/

It's all explained here, easy: http://www.63xc.com/gregg/101_10.htm

I'm 44, too old and already got enough scars to be trying any of that (in case Mrs Ibbots is looking in). Just want to be able to avoid taking the nice anodising off my rear rim.


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## trio25 (18 Apr 2011)

smokeysmoo said:


> God I hate that corner! It's always full of general crud and detritis and pushes you farther into the carriageway than you really want to go, glad I run Schwalbe Durano+ or I think I'd have shares in an inner tube company
> I'm sure it's an adverse camber too, so it gives me no confidence regardless of the weather conditions.
> 
> I actually hate that corner when I'm going home too, reason being the inconsiderate drivers who decide to drive in the gutter! It does actually turns me into a tarmac terroist on occasion, and I really don't like that tag, but at times it's either that, or use the pavement, or come to a standstill and then set off again, (not fun when you are running 48x18), or find myself under some dozy twonks wheels!
> ...



When I commute depends on where I am going, varies week to week. So it could be 6:30am it could be 8am. I don't mind it so much on the way back as I just go up the right of all the traffic, its only when some idiot in a car is trying to do the same and has had to stop that is an issue. I find if I am coming up after 5pm it is better as traffic is on the whole stationary. Not rode it since the temporary traffic lights have been on though as I have two weeks off work at the moment.

It is definitely adverse camber, going down I am always on my brakes. Only way to do it is hold a good primary and spin the legs like crazy (I have 42:16 gearing).


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2011)

trio25 said:


> When I commute depends on where I am going, varies week to week. So it could be 6:30am it could be 8am. I don't mind it so much on the way back as I just go up the right of all the traffic, its only when some idiot in a car is trying to do the same and has had to stop that is an issue. I find if I am coming up after 5pm it is better as traffic is on the whole stationary. Not rode it since the temporary traffic lights have been on though as I have two weeks off work at the moment.
> 
> It is definitely adverse camber, going down I am always on my brakes. Only way to do it is hold a good primary and spin the legs like crazy (I have 42:16 gearing).


The temporary lights are adding to the fun. At least the roads are much quieter this week with the kids off school.

I'm expecting to replace my blocks quite frequently with the amount of brake use I now have! 

I've tried the whole outside of the traffic thing, but like you said, it only needs some idiot flying up the outside, and it's usually a Metro taxi!


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## smokeysmoo (18 Apr 2011)

Ibbots said:


> New Chapel/Claypool Rd is a little more challenging on fixed, really enjoy flying down it when can freewheel - best avoided if there's a frost however.
> 
> 
> There's a moment in this promo where a guy skids which is quite impressive. I guess it might be easy on a smaller gear and you must have to unweight the back wheel somehow. http://mashsf.com/cinelli_page/
> ...



I expect I'd inadvertantly perform a full on face plant if I was to try anything like that for myself, "ambulance for smokeysmoo please!" 

Plus the fact I'd get the inevitable earbashing from 'er indoors, "I wish you'd sell that bike, I knew this would happen", Which bike my love?", "All of them!"  

I'm getting scarily close to 40 myself, so I have no desire to really to try it to be honest. I'm fully aware of how long it takes to recover when you get a little older. Broken ankle from my MTB days, and a broken elbow from a couple of years back spring to mind  So I really have no desire to add a busted nose and broken jaw to my medical history!

Ride safe


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## trio25 (19 Apr 2011)

Outside the traffic is the best way to do it, I usually get up without stopping and I'm not going kerbside which is so rough and the cars are so close.

I often ride into Manchester so do Crompton Way those days, that's a nicer road.

OH rides TMR everyday and does it so fast, suppose you get used to it, oh and gears and a freewheel helps.


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## 3narf (24 Apr 2011)

I now have a double-sided rear wheel so I'll be trying the fixed side eventually; it's just waiting for the right time...  

https://www.cyclechat.net/


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## 3narf (25 Apr 2011)

Just had my first go, up & down the street.

Know what I thought? Remember in that old film _Reach for the Sky_ when Douglas Bader first puts on his false legs?

He collapses in a heap and says *"what am I supposed to do? It's bloody impossible!"*


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## Bicycle (25 Apr 2011)

Persevere....

It starts to make sense in the end.

I have benefitted hugely from riding fixed.

I did 70 miles in the Welch borders on my geared road bike today and was frequently doing 95-105 rpm with stretches at 110+.

I never used to do that so much, and used to bounce terribly over 105.

The current smoothness is all down to riding fixed-gear.

Sod rose-tinted Douglas Bader biopics, persevere with fixed-gear....


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## Ibbots (27 Apr 2011)

3narf said:


> Just had my first go, up & down the street.
> 
> Know what I thought? Remember in that old film _Reach for the Sky_ when Douglas Bader first puts on his false legs?
> 
> He collapses in a heap and says *"what am I supposed to do? It's bloody impossible!"*




I had a bit of an advantage having done quite a lot of training at the velodrome in recent past so knew what to expect to some extent, 'though this does not prepare one for going dowhill fast. Got out out with the bigger gear this morning but still hitting over 140rpm on the descent and having to feather the brake. I still find it very unsettling, I'd better get the hang of it as I live at the top of a big hill and it's downhill for at least a mile in every direction unless I go across the moors.

I am finding it easier controlling the bike at lower speeds even after relatively few rides, almost intuitive, and I'm sure you'll get it with some practice - I've still not attempted a track stand in public yet!


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## fossyant (28 Apr 2011)

For high cadence, lock out your ankles. Normal riding you'll flex the ankles as well to maintain a smooth pedalling action - at high speed lock these out and relax. It comes to you within a couple of weeks.

My average cadence is pretty high these days on road rides (Garmin data), although I'm still a grinder up hill. I average about 90.


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## Ibbots (30 Apr 2011)

fossyant said:


> For high cadence, lock out your ankles. Normal riding you'll flex the ankles as well to maintain a smooth pedalling action - at high speed lock these out and relax. It comes to you within a couple of weeks.
> 
> My average cadence is pretty high these days on road rides (Garmin data), although I'm still a grinder up hill. I average about 90.



I was fine with very high cadences on the track but that was always accelerating and sprinting. I have quite a flexy ankle action and that is what was feeling wrong, like my feet can't keep up when cruising along at high speed, so what you suggest makes a lot of sense. I'll give it a go, cheers.


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## Bunneh (29 May 2011)

If I hear someone come past me on Old Kiln Land, screaming, I'll know who it is  Not tried fixed yet, bit daunted by it tbh.


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## Ibbots (30 May 2011)

Bunneh said:


> If I hear someone come past me on Old Kiln Land, screaming, I'll know who it is  Not tried fixed yet, bit daunted by it tbh.


just as likely to hear me sobbing half way up, especially if this north westerly does not let up


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