# schwalbe marathon plus?



## martintoomany bikes (25 May 2018)

Hi,can anyone tell me how good these tyres are,looking at getting some for the winter commute,should i go for as wide as i can ie 35mm or as the current tyres are 28mm?Thanks M


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## User6179 (25 May 2018)

They last forever, best puncture protection you can get, not great grip and ride like you have wood wrapped around your rims.

Good choice for commute if you are not wanting to hammer it.


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## mickle (25 May 2018)

They're excellent. They have a very high level of puncture protection, but this does come at the expense of rolling resistance. You might find that a model lower in the range gives you all the protection you need but with a bit less drag. I rode a Schwalbe Big Apple into the ground over the course of five years and had not a single puncture. Tyre section choice is a personal matter. A trade off of speed versus comfort. I just traded a pair of 28c tyres for 35c and I'm loving the extra comfort and surefootedness of the bigger footprint. It's not as fast but speed is not high on my list of priorities.


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## Bazzer (25 May 2018)

^^^what they said^^^. 
You might also find them a challenge fitting to your rims. Particularly in cold weather. I have never yet managed to fit mine with just my thumbs.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 May 2018)

I don’t like them. As said upthread, I prefer the Greenguard Marathons purely because there is life to your ride. And in nearly 4000km I may have had 3 punctures at the most. 

I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. (Well maybe not in the rain and dark) I would choose the occasional fix over a dead ride any day.


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## Rooster1 (25 May 2018)

They are very good


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## simon.r (25 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. (Well maybe not in the rain and dark) I would choose the occasional fix over a dead ride any day.



It does depend on what bike you ride. Hub gears / chaincases / loaded with shopping can make getting wheels in and out significantly more difficult. I know you don’t *need* to remove the wheel to fix a puncture, but it can be very awkward if you don’t.


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## Turdus philomelos (25 May 2018)

Wouldn't use any other brand of tyre for all round year commuting. 
I managed to get my money's worth out of this Schwalbe Marathon tyre without puncturing after many, many miles.


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## Tenacious Sloth (25 May 2018)

I’ve previously posted my impressions of Marathon Plus tyres which just about answers all of the questions raised in the OP:

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-thoughts-on-commuting-with-marathon-plus-tyres.228061/

Graham


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## gaijintendo (25 May 2018)

I have two wheelsets, one for fun, and one for commuting.

Fun, for me, is feeling a decade younger and more energetic.


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## vickster (25 May 2018)

I found them heavy, sluggish, slow and slippery in the wet. And expensive (fitted by LBS, no way I’d be able to do with my inflamed hands). Wouldn’t buy again


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## Supersuperleeds (25 May 2018)

Brilliant tyre for commuting. Absolute pig to fit when new though.


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## slowmotion (25 May 2018)

They are really, really reliable but a bit sluggish if you are after speed. I was very happy with my 25mm ones. They are famously difficult to fit when new. Here's The Man showing you how to do it.....
[media]
]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4[/media]


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## Elybazza61 (25 May 2018)

Gt Tours might be a good compromise; shop manager has them on his Salsa Vaya commuter and really likes them,more grip and feedback than the pluses.


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## marshmella (25 May 2018)

Never had a problem fitting Marathon+ must have been lucky. Great fit and forget commuting tyres.


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## marshmella (25 May 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Note that the beard is mandatory. You can't fit them without one.


I can confirm i have fitted them without a beard though i may have had stubble


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## slowmotion (25 May 2018)

I followed The Man's instructions and eventually got them on the rims but it took over a dozen zip-ties and there was blood oozing out from under both thumbnails. Some time later, I managed to knacker a valve stem and had to replace a tube. Putting a used Marathon Plus on by the roadside was as easy as pie. They soften up with use.


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## DaveReading (25 May 2018)

slowmotion said:


> Putting a used Marathon Plus on by the roadside was as easy as pie. They soften up with use.



As do many things. 

I'll confess to having M+ on my tourer - while I'm perfectly capable of changing a tube at the roadside, life's too short ...


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## Heltor Chasca (25 May 2018)

slowmotion said:


> I followed The Man's instructions and eventually got them on the rims but it took over a dozen zip-ties and there was blood oozing out from under both thumbnails. Some time later, I managed to knacker a valve stem and had to replace a tube. Putting a used Marathon Plus on by the roadside was as easy as pie. They soften up with use.



Extreme enthusiasm. Top marks for self flagellation. Leave in the sun, by a radiator or use a hair dryer. I listened to a podcast where the mechanics used heat guns CAREFULLY. I haven’t tried that yet.

Touring in Alaska may void any of the above suggestions.


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## Alan O (25 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I don’t like them. As said upthread, I prefer the Greenguard Marathons purely because there is life to your ride. And in nearly 4000km I may have had 3 punctures at the most.
> 
> I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. (Well maybe not in the rain and dark) I would choose the occasional fix over a dead ride any day.


That's interesting. I have two pairs of wheels for my tourer, one pair with Marathon Greenguards and one pair with Gatorskins (both 32mm). I have the Gatorskins on now for the summer, and compared to them the Greenguards feel dead - but the Greenguards are very hard-wearing and good on softer surfaces.

If Marathon Plus are deader than Greenguards, I don't think I'd like them too much.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 May 2018)

Alan O said:


> That's interesting. I have two pairs of wheels for my tourer, one pair with Marathon Greenguards and one pair with Gatorskins (both 32mm). I have the Gatorskins on now for the summer, and compared to them the Greenguards feel dead - but the Greenguards are very hard-wearing and good on softer surfaces.
> 
> If Marathon Plus are deader than Greenguards, I don't think I'd like them too much.



A good point I should have been clearer on. My greenguards are on my tourer. Livelier than Marathon+ but compared to Gatoskins or the Durano tyres on my Audax bike they are dead I agree. But they are very different tyres for a very different purpose. 

Even my Durano tyres are the raceguard rather than the Durano+ simply because I prefer a livelier ride and don’t mind fixing punctures. I have had one puncture in about 3500km on my Duranos. And that was AFTER I had finished my Audax.


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## Alan O (25 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> A good point I should have been clearer on. My greenguards are on my tourer. Livelier than Marathon+ but compared to Gatoskins or the Durano tyres on my Audax bike they are dead I agree. But they are very different tyres for a very different purpose.
> 
> Even my Durano tyres are the raceguard rather than the Durano+ simply because I prefer a livelier ride and don’t mind fixing punctures. I have had one puncture in about 3500km on my Duranos. And that was AFTER I had finished my Audax.


Yes, I'm not too worried about punctures - even my sportiest tyres, GP 4000s, are more puncture resistant than tyres used to be in the old days. I expect I'd feel different if I commuted throughout the year, but cycling only for pleasure these days, a comfortable and livelier ride is more important.


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## SkipdiverJohn (25 May 2018)

There are quite a few models of Schwalbe tyres that have a decent level of puncture protection. I did consider M/M+ for my hybrid but decided against it as I really don't want tyres that are very heavy and dead feeling. I settled for Delta Cruiser+ in the end, in 35mm width. They are Level 5 protected on Schwalbe's own scale. (IIRC, M are level 6 and M+ Level 7). I find them nice to ride on, seem to cope OK with all the rubbish on the roads/cycle paths, and are good value for money if bought from places like Chain Reaction.


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## Pat "5mph" (25 May 2018)

Instead of the M Plus, for commuting get the M Original Greenguard.
No punctures, cheaper, a bit more supple.


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## PaulSB (26 May 2018)

martintoomany bikes said:


> Hi,can anyone tell me how good these tyres are,looking at getting some for the winter commute,should i go for as wide as i can ie 35mm or as the current tyres are 28mm?Thanks M



I switched to Marathons in 2012 after years of running Continental Gatorskins with which I had no punctures in seven years.

I had three punctures in ten days on the Marathons. Ditched them and went back to Gatorskns. Personally I wouldn’t go near a Schwalbe tyre.


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## Truth (26 May 2018)

Gatorskins for me but I had two new ones back in August and had a couple of punctures in the first week and none since! ...... well that was until I posted that fact  .
I honestly think a lot of its down to luck


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## SkipdiverJohn (26 May 2018)

My bike mileage is split roughly equally between my Pioneer on Schwalbes and my ratty old MTB which is fitted with a pair of crappy old far-east made 2" wide knobblys, the front one of which is getting pretty worn out. I keep threatening to replace the front with one of my other equally crappy but less worn spare knobbly tyres when I get a visit from The Fairy, but so far she has stayed away. Considering the dreadful surfaces I ride on, I'm surprised I have got away with it for so long.


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## Lonestar (26 May 2018)

Truth said:


> Gatorskins for me but I had two new ones back in August and had a couple of punctures in the first week and none since! ...... well that was until I posted that fact  .
> I honestly think a lot of its down to luck



I used to use Gatorskins but then they seem to become less reliable so started using Shwalabe the difference being I check my tyres for glass after four commutes....Much more reliable....Last time I was surprised what I picked out from the front tyre....I use my Magicshine front light to inspect the tyres.Front tyre needs replacing rear trye is fine.


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## Ticktockmy (27 May 2018)

I recall when I first bought my marathon plus's my friends stood round waiting for me not to succeed in fitting them without a struggle, much to my surprise and others they slipped on no problem. A few months later a shrad of flint pentrated the tyre and caused a punture, changing the inner tube took forever, as I just could not get the rim to stay in the well. but as a working tyre, they dont seem to wear, after approx 4000miles the front tyre still is showing the sprew mark on the tyre, and the rear is showing little wear. As a touring tyre I find them great, however for someone who might want to speed along at great speed, forget it as they are a little on the sluggist side not reall a problem for a loaded touring bike. I use them on and off road and find they cope well on muddy tracks very well.


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## Saluki (27 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. (Well maybe not in the rain and dark) I would choose the occasional fix over a dead ride any day.



I have difficulty with my hands and having had pain in them for a couple of days after fixing a tube, I tend to go with something with a bit of P resistance now.
I don't mind fixing or replacing a tube but I either need P resistant tyres or tyres that are easy to get on and off. Currently choosing resistance 

Oh, Marathon + on the CX, Gators on the Roadies.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 May 2018)

Saluki said:


> I have difficulty with my hands and having had pain in them for a couple of days after fixing a tube, I tend to go with something with a bit of P resistance now.
> I don't mind fixing or replacing a tube but I either need P resistant tyres or tyres that are easy to get on and off. Currently choosing resistance
> 
> Oh, Marathon + on the CX, Gators on the Roadies.



Yes. I’m sorry. I take for granted I have gardening hands and I forget that physical aspects of a puncture can be an issue for some and may well become difficult for me in years to come. Although I was (in my own head) thinking of the patch or change the inner tube practicalities, you have my apologies. Sorry.


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. .


Its the inconvenience and journey time reliability factor. There's a big difference between casual pleasure riding within a couple of miles radius from home, with no time pressure whatsoever, and a journey made with a specific purpose. If I make an arrangement to be at a certain place at a certain time I can plan my departure time based on how fast my average speed is likely to be, and allow a few minutes extra to factor in things like being unlucky with delays at road junctions or having the wind blowing in the wrong direction. However, getting a puncture throws a spanner in the works, and might turn a planned 45 minute journey into an hour or more.
If you are mainly touring and don't have a schedule to keep to, you may not care about the odd puncture, but when I set out somewhere specific I want the best possible chance of my journey not being disrupted by an unplanned event, and no amount of diligent attention to bike maintenance will prevent puncture delays if you ride on unprotected tyres. The only way is to use tyres that do not puncture easily.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 May 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> QUOTE="Heltor Chasca, post: 5255429, member: 49337"]I don’t get what the deal is with punctures. They are so easy and quick to fix anywhere in the world. .



Its the inconvenience and journey time reliability factor. There's a big difference between casual pleasure riding within a couple of miles radius from home, with no time pressure whatsoever, and a journey made with a specific purpose. If I make an arrangement to be at a certain place at a certain time I can plan my departure time based on how fast my average speed is likely to be, and allow a few minutes extra to factor in things like being unlucky with delays at road junctions or having the wind blowing in the wrong direction. However, getting a puncture throws a spanner in the works, and might turn a planned 45 minute journey into an hour or more.
If you are mainly touring and don't have a schedule to keep to, you may not care about the odd puncture, but when I set out somewhere specific I want the best possible chance of my journey not being disrupted by an unplanned event, and no amount of diligent attention to bike maintenance will prevent puncture delays if you ride on unprotected tyres. The only way is to use tyres that do not puncture easily.[/QUOTE]

———————————

Housekeeping point: Most of my rides are around the 200km mark. Audax rides with a maximum time allowance. So some pressure. Not a lot. I still don’t mind the odd fix over a dead ride. 

The other rides are school run stuff and my 8 year old can do it for me


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## fossyant (27 May 2018)

Weigh the equivalent of a baby elephant, and are even heavier than a 650b 2.3inch Ice Spiker Pro MTB tyre with 350 metal spikes.

Heavy, but bomb proof.


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## fossyant (27 May 2018)

Also look at Durano Plus if you want more road tyre


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## Heltor Chasca (27 May 2018)

fossyant said:


> Weigh the equivalent of a baby elephant, and are even heavier than a 650b 2.3inch Ice Spiker Pro MTB tyre with 350 metal spikes.
> 
> Heavy, but bomb proof.



I have the Kenda Klondike ice tyres. Like riding through treacle, but you stay upright.



fossyant said:


> Also look at Durano Plus if you want more road tyre



The next notch down (Durano Raceguard) are my favourite at the moment. All season and they don’t wear on my turbo. (Or wear the turbo)


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## fossyant (27 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I have the Kenda Klondike ice tyres. Like riding through treacle, but you stay upright.
> 
> 
> 
> The next notch down (Durano Raceguard) are my favourite at the moment. All season and they don’t wear on my turbo. (Or wear the turbo)



Ran durano plus after the shared path I used on a small part of my commute used to destroy my usual tyres (glass).

The ice spikers are incredibly noisy compared to lesser spiked snow studs


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## Heltor Chasca (27 May 2018)

fossyant said:


> Ran durano plus after the shared path I used on a small part of my commute used to destroy my usual tyres (glass).
> 
> The ice spikers are incredibly noisy compared to lesser spiked snow studs



Agree shared paths are a pain. There are two sections I use (Bristol and Frome) where I have to carry the bike there is so much glass.

My ice tyres give me a fizzy butt from the road buzz. Marmite sensation.


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## Truth (28 May 2018)

[QUOTE 5258478, member: 259"]Lovely tyres but not fantastic at puncture protection and they wear out quite quickly. "Gatorskins" is pushing it a bit TBH.[/QUOTE]
Must admit milege wise I don't get a lot compared to what others do on here. People getting 6000 miles plus out of a set are WAY above what I get


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## martintoomany bikes (28 May 2018)

PaulSB said:


> I switched to Marathons in 2012 after years of running Continental Gatorskins with which I had no punctures in seven years.
> 
> I had three punctures in ten days on the Marathons. Ditched them and went back to Gatorskns. Personally I wouldn’t go near a Schwalbe tyre.


oh dear!!thanks for that,i might think twice then..


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## Alan O (28 May 2018)

martintoomany bikes said:


> oh dear!!thanks for that,i might think twice then..


Not meaning any offense to anyone, but you should not base your judgment on _one_ person's experience. The way statistical variation works, you'll always get someone who has had punctures from good tyres and someone who has not had punctures from bad tyres. Three punctures in 10 days? I'd suspect something stuck inside the tyre that wasn't cleared out after the first puncture.


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## Pat "5mph" (28 May 2018)

martintoomany bikes said:


> oh dear!!thanks for that,i might think twice then..


Well, I don't use anything but Marathon tyres ....


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## SkipdiverJohn (28 May 2018)

Alan O said:


> Three punctures in 10 days? I'd suspect something stuck inside the tyre that wasn't cleared out after the first puncture.



So would I, or the underlying cause was some other issue such as a degraded rim tape or the tube wasn't refitted too carefully because the puncture was done in a hurry/in unclean conditions where abrasive grit could get inside the tyre. I'm a bit anal when it comes to fitting tubes - I check down both sides of the rim/bead area all the way round using a bright torch to ensure no tube pinches and I push the valve stem upwards into the tyre a bit so the stem flange can't get trapped under the bead during inflation. The knurled valve stem lockring only gets tightened up after the tyre is fully inflated. I've never had a tube explode or got a pinch flat so far.


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## PaulSB (28 May 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> So would I, or the underlying cause was some other issue such as a degraded rim tape or the tube wasn't refitted too carefully because the puncture was done in a hurry/in unclean conditions where abrasive grit could get inside the tyre. I'm a bit anal when it comes to fitting tubes - I check down both sides of the rim/bead area all the way round using a bright torch to ensure no tube pinches and I push the valve stem upwards into the tyre a bit so the stem flange can't get trapped under the bead during inflation. The knurled valve stem lockring only gets tightened up after the tyre is fully inflated. I've never had a tube explode or got a pinch flat so far.



So do I though I don’t use a torch. It’s around six years ago so I can’t recall the cause but the second and third wouldn’t be due to sloppy changing. 

Equally I agree one person’s poor experience shouldn’t be taken as the over riding opinion. Fact is though I rarely get punctures on Gatorskins. Why I don’t know.


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## Aravis (29 May 2018)

Many years ago (1984 IIRC) I was suffering a recurring puncture, but it took 100 miles or more to repeat itself. Having failed a number of times to locate the cause, I adopted the much-ridiculed practice of aligning the maker's name with the valve. I doubt that without this I would ever have found the culprit - a small piece of plastic which was resistant enough eventually to wear a hole through the inner tube.

So I wouldn't say a recurring puncture is necessarily carelessness, but it's unlikely to be the entirely the fault of the tyre.

Attempting to get back on topic, I use standard Marathon Greenguards. Any advantage the Plusses may have in p.p. seems to be marginal, and probably irrelevant to the type of cycling I do; the Greenguards seem to have clear benefits in ease of handling, suppleness, weight, and of course price.


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## theclaud (29 May 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Note that the beard is mandatory. You can't fit them without one.


I now see where I have been going wrong.


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## dhd.evans (29 May 2018)

Have them for my winter singlespeed; have gone 2 winters, maybe 2000mi on them so far, showing no signs of dying. Indestructible but that's because they're made of depleted uranium and are accordingly as heavy.


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## byegad (29 May 2018)

After breaking two tyre levers and skinning my knuckles one wet night trying to get a 2000 mile M+ off the rim, resulting in Lady Byegad having to rescue me in the car, I gave up on M+. 
At home next morning, with knuckles taped up, even a couple of motorcycle tyre levers were not getting a slight hint of the tyre coming off, I cut the tyre, and bead. I then fitted Pasela Tour-guards, which lasted over 10k miles without a puncture. I felt they were a better rolling tyre too. 

To illustrate that I don't have a down on Schwalbe. 
I've use Marathon Racers, Kojaks and Big Apples on my trikes and can say that the first and last were/are great. However the Kojaks proved very prone to splitting in freezing temperatures, though they were fine in warmer days.


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## martintoomany bikes (29 May 2018)

thanks to everyone,very helpful indeed.cheers


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## alecstilleyedye (29 May 2018)

just for perspective, i commuted 68km a day through 2 winters on urban and rural roads on 23mm vittoria rubino pros, with very few punctures.

the low-end schwalbe tyres that came with my boardman cx went over 8,000km over the same route before puncturing (by which time the rear was worn beyond reasonable use).

i'm not blessed with any cleaner or less pitted roads than anyone else; i attribute the longevity of my tyres to keeping them inflated to an appropriate pressure…


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## hoopdriver (29 May 2018)

Maybe it's because I squeeze my own coconut juice every morning with my bare hands, but I've never had much problem mounting Marathon-Plusses on my rims. And once they are on, it's pretty well fit-and-forget. I never need to take them off again until many thousands of miles later when they are utterly worn through. The one and only time I ever had a flat with Marathon-Plusses was after they'd been on my high-mileage bike for a couple of puncture-free years and I'd grown so used to not thinking about tyres that I forgot about wear and maintenance and discovered to my chagrin that I'd worn a hole in the rear tyre. Totally my fault. Happily I was less than a mile from home. I put new Marathon-Plusses and back to business again. I think those same tyres are still on that bike now, a few years later.


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## biking_fox (29 May 2018)

Also an M+ commuter. If you do any regular off road sections then I'd certainly thoroughly recommend them. If you're road only you may be able to get by with something lighter. When I changed to regularly using a tarmac'd off road path, I shredded several different tyres very quickly, before settling on the M+ which just lasts. Large metal is generally the only object to get through. My tip for removing them is to work the tyre lever all the way around the wheel at least twice before you attempt to add the 2nd.


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## mjr (29 May 2018)

PaulSB said:


> I switched to Marathons in 2012 after years of running Continental Gatorskins with which I had no punctures in seven years.
> 
> I had three punctures in ten days on the Marathons. Ditched them and went back to Gatorskns. Personally I wouldn’t go near a Schwalbe tyre.


Whereas I think you may as well be using paper as Gatorskins with how Norfolk arrowhead flints just stab through so easily... but I tend to use regular Marathon (rear wheel of workhorse bikes) or Delta Cruiser (all others) in preference because they offer a more comfortable ride than the pluses. Anything rides better than Armadillos, which seem sticky as well as stiff.

Those claiming Marathons have poor grip: is it when they were new and still had mould release compound on them?


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## iancity (3 Jun 2018)

Well I was a M+ user and have been for last couple of years, done around 2500 miles in all sorts of conditions and only 1 puncture which was a huuuge piece of glass...however, am in the process of changing them as I just cant get them on (at home, let alone when out in the bush). they are properly indestructible, so much so that the last few months I have gone out without any puncture repair kits/spare tubes etc as, well, whats the point. I could possibly get them off, put there is no way on Gods earth that I could get them back on...so, although the chances of getting a puncture are close to zero, I have decided that witth the increased distance I am doing, and the increasingly remote places I am cycling in/to, that I need to be able to change the tyre, so ordered some Michelin Pro4 tyres, will put them on this week and see if there is any difference rolling resistance wise although to be honest I just will feel better if there is a tyre on my bike that I can change should the inevitable happen!


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Jun 2018)

iancity said:


> I have decided that witth the increased distance I am doing, and the increasingly remote places I am cycling in/to, that I need to be able to change the tyre, so ordered some Michelin Pro4 tyres, will put them on this week and see if there is any difference rolling resistance wise although to be honest I just will feel better if there is a tyre on my bike that I can change should the inevitable happen!



Seems a bit of reverse logic at work here to me; the way I look at it, the more local I am the less bothered I am about punctures. because the inconvenience and wasted time factor is much less. I can just go home, swap bikes, and fix the flat later at my convenience. It's when I'm 3 or 4 hours walk away that I don't want to be getting punctures. For local hack use I just use whatever crappy unprotected tyres I have in stock that have come to me via scrap parts donor bikes or been changed out off good bikes. I've fitted Schwalbe to my hybrids that are used for longer rides. It doesn't have to be a choice of M+ or nothing either, as MJR demonstrates, original Marathon & Delta Cruiser+ are both lighter and more supple than M+ yet still have a better level of puncture protection than most other tyres on the market. I use DC+ front & rear and are very happy with them. I'm sure I'd be just as happy with original M, which although a bit dearer should also last longer - so be just as cost-effective mile for mile. When I next need replacements I might use original M on the rear and DC+ on the front, hopefully then both tyres would wear out at around the same time.


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## Alan O (4 Jun 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> It doesn't have to be a choice of M+ or nothing either, as MJR demonstrates, original Marathon & Delta Cruiser+ are both lighter and more supple than M+ yet still have a better level of puncture protection than most other tyres on the market.


And for what it's worth, I find Marathon Original/Greenguard easy to get on and off.


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## Lavender Rose (4 Jun 2018)

My mum has marathon plus's on her hybrid Carrera - excellent puncture protection, but sluggish over long distances.


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Jun 2018)

Charlotte Alice Button said:


> My mum has marathon plus's on her hybrid Carrera - excellent puncture protection, but sluggish over long distances.



It's the reports of the sluggish feel that put me off trying M+. Not being a racing roadie, I don't care if a tyre is fairly hefty weight-wise, but I still don't want it to feel totally dead all the same. It's a question of finding the "sweet spot" where a tyre has a sporting chance of getting to your destination without puncturing, but does not feel so unresponsive that you stop enjoying the ride.


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## hoopdriver (4 Jun 2018)

I’ve ridden tens of thousands of miles on Marathon Plusses and I don’t recall them ever blighting my enjoyment of a ride. I used to do a lot of touring and regularly rode 100+ miles a day on them, on a loaded up tourer, so I wouldn’t say they bogged me down much either.

They are not high performance racing tyres, but they are not meant to be. They are perfectly good touring and commuting tyres. A lot of the talk about weight and “sluggishness” is just hyperbole. The weight of a tyre matters only when you are accelerating, something that matters when racing but doesn't when you are touring or commuting. At cruising speed it doesn’t matter at all.


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## mjr (4 Jun 2018)

The sluggish feeling is the stiff armoured sidewalls more than weight. If you can't feel the difference between DC or Marathon and M+, I'm surprised.


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## chriscross1966 (3 Jul 2018)

I run Marathon Plus on my commuting Brompton, in 8 years one actual puncture and that was where some git had caltroped the bike path with a carefully placed line of broken glass... getting them on and off some rims can be hard and I carry one of Campagnolos special tyre levers as (for aesthetic reasons) I'm running on carbon rims. I wouldn't have them on a "fun" bike, the sunny days Brompton runs Kojaks and the racer will be on Strozapretti..


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## Ajax Bay (3 Jul 2018)

iancity said:


> I was a M+ user ... however, am in the process of changing them . . . . . I have . . . ordered some Michelin Pro4 tyres, will put them on this week and see if there is any difference rolling resistance wise


The Pro4s are a quantum leap in performance compared with the M+s. For low rolling resistance with puncture protection they are in the lead bunch, (with Conti GP 4000S II and Schwalbe One V-guard). Michelins: 15w per tyre, M+ = 25w.
And I've found the Michelins are a darn sight easier than the 4000s to get on my rims, and of course almost any tyre is easier to get on than a M+ (managed it just the once when (with an hour to go after 100+ miles) a failing tyre (Giant P-SL2? which started bulging at its sidewall) 'forced' me to buy and fit an M+ 'by the side of the road'. Came straight off after JoG. 
https://www.bicyclerollingresistanc...-v2-2015-vs-schwalbe-one-vguard-clincher-2014


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## froze (4 Jul 2018)

I don't use the Marathon Plus but I think mine are similar which are the Marathon GreenGuard. 

I use those on my touring bike and I got to say...I like them. The odd thing is they are heavy tires of course, but they roll really well and I can't even tell I have heavy tires on, nor do they feel like wood tires, in fact with touring weight on they feel quite nice, now if I ride the bike without any extra weight I reduce the tire pressure to 45 front and 70 rear, but when I add my gear of 45 pounds approximately (I weigh 175 with clothes and the bike weighs 25) I raise the pressure to 60 front and 85 rear. 

I think people who complain about the ride quality simply have too much air in the tires, if you use this tire pressure calculator, and use the second one not the first): http://www.dorkypantsr.us/bike-tire-pressure-calculator.html you'll get real close to your idea pressure that will make the bike ride better and make the tires last longer. But again I do use the Greenguard ones so there might be some difference there that I'm unaware of in the ride quality and traction.

I also haven't noticed any grip issues with mine, even in the rain they performed excellently, I don't go touring in the winter so I have no idea how good the grip will be in the winter, but I would suspect that since the tire's tread is made to last a long time, which means the tread is thick and hard, it will not be very good in really cold weather because the rubber will get and lose its pliability. Granted they're not made for racing with, so to expect high speed is a bit lame, that's like saying you bought a Toyota Prius so you could get 50 mpg but are not happy with it because it won't do over 200 mph! You buy the Marathons for touring, durability, and puncture resistance that is second to none.



They are difficult to put on but I was able to do it without resorting to the straps that the video shows but it is a interesting method, all I did was set the tires in a 150 degree oven for about 20 minutes, my wife was none to happy about that but when it was all done there was no burnt rubber going on inside the oven so she mellowed out! I took a tire out and installed like I would normally which is very similar to the video. I used a set of Soma steel core tire levers which are the best levers on the market to get on the last 5 inches, and toward the last 2 inches I had to resort to the VAR tire lever which snapped that last section in. After I got both on my hands were quite sore.

These tires do not retain air any differently than any other tire, the tube holds the air pressure the tire doesn't hold any pressure because it's not a sealed system like tubeless tires, thus the tires will slowly have escaping air pressure like any other tire at the same rate. I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever with psi loss.

Experience wise I've had horrible luck with anything made by Conti in the road tire area, but the MTB tires seem to be just fine. Gatorskins don't hold a match to a tire like the Marathon Greenguard. You can tell by feeling the tire that the Greenguard is a heck of lot more robust than a Gatorskin; the Greenguard is a truck tire designed for heavy loads going long distances, the Gatorskin is a compromise between a racing tire and puncture resistant tire like the Greenguard and the Gator doesn't excel at either. I've used the Gators and I wasn't impressed, especially after getting 7 flats before something damaged it's fragile sidewall ending the tire's career short. The older version of the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire at the time had the toughest sidewalls in the industry, I actually rode one flat just to see what would happen to the sidewall, the sidewall was so strong it even protected the rim from damage, I rode it that way for 5 miles back to the house; yes some of you are thinking why didn't I just fix the tire, because the reason it got a flat was only because I had worn the tire down to the threads and beyond just to test it to find out how tough it was. Well the Marathon sidewalls are even tougher! I still have an old Armadillo and I compared them, and the sidewall is bit thicker and stiffer than an Armadillo, and the tread on the Greenguard is thicker.

Even though I commute to work I don't use the Greenguard for commuting on, that is only my touring tire, I currently use Specialized Roubaix Pro tires they haven't flatted yet but I've had a lot of tires last without flatting while commuting.


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Jul 2018)

I'm currently getting excellent service from Delta Cruiser+ in 700 x 35 fitted to my flat bar Raleigh pioneer. This gets a lot of use on really bad debris-strewn potholed urban tarmac and gravel which varies from fairly smooth hardpacked to rough with large loose stones that ping out with force as you ride over them. I do little mileage on decent smooth tarmac so flimsy tyres are no use to me. The puncture protection in the DC+ looks to be a slightly thinner version of that fitted to M+. According to Schwalbe, the original Marathon Greenguard has the same protection level to the DC+, but the protection is differently constructed, and the service life of the tyre should be longer than with DC+, so should offset the higher purchase cost.
How do you find the Greenguards for flint rejection, i.e. do the tyres seem to collect much that need to be dug out of the tread to stop them working their way through? The DC+ seems fairly good in this respect and not much gets embedded into the rubber surface.


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## bpsmith (4 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm currently getting excellent service from Delta Cruiser+ in 700 x 35 fitted to my flat bar Raleigh pioneer. This gets a lot of use on really bad debris-strewn potholed urban tarmac and gravel which varies from fairly smooth hardpacked to rough with large loose stones that ping out with force as you ride over them. I do little mileage on decent smooth tarmac so flimsy tyres are no use to me. The puncture protection in the DC+ looks to be a slightly thinner version of that fitted to M+. According to Schwalbe, the original Marathon Greenguard has the same protection level to the DC+, but the protection is differently constructed, and the service life of the tyre should be longer than with DC+, so should offset the higher purchase cost.
> How do you find the Greenguards for flint rejection, i.e. do the tyres seem to collect much that need to be dug out of the tread to stop them working their way through? The DC+ seems fairly good in this respect and not much gets embedded into the rubber surface.


Schwalbe’s own site rates the Delta Cruiser as having a puncture protection level of 3, out of 7.

A glance through their flimsy road tyres shows them from at least level 4 up to level 6.


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## mjr (4 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Schwalbe’s own site rates the Delta Cruiser as having a puncture protection level of 3, out of 7.
> 
> A glance through their flimsy road tyres shows them from at least level 4 up to level 6.


Neither statement seems correct to me: DC+ is not DC and DC+ is rated 5 out of 7 by Schwalbe. The Lugano is level 3, as are Road Cruiser and the venerable HS-159 and many others.


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## GuyBoden (4 Jul 2018)

I've had Marathon+ on the rear of my winter bike for about two plus years and no punctures, I ride about 140(ish) miles a week. They are difficult to get on my wheels, but this must depend on your rim type, I coat both the tyre and wheel in washing up liquid, so they slip on easier and I use the Spa cycles strap method.

Concerning tyre feel, I think UK road surfaces are the real problem not tyres.


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## Alan O (4 Jul 2018)

froze said:


> I don't use the Marathon Plus but I think mine are similar which are the Marathon GreenGuard.
> 
> I use those on my touring bike and I got to say...I like them. The odd thing is they are heavy tires of course, but they roll really well and I can't even tell I have heavy tires on, nor do they feel like wood tires, in fact with touring weight on they feel quite nice, now if I ride the bike without any extra weight I reduce the tire pressure to 45 front and 70 rear, but when I add my gear of 45 pounds approximately (I weigh 175 with clothes and the bike weighs 25) I raise the pressure to 60 front and 85 rear.


That's very interesting, thanks.

For my old tourer I have two identical sets of wheels, one with Marathon Greenguard and one with Gatorskins. The Marathons definitely feel more sluggish and I feel more fatigued after a ride - and I've assumed it's due to the stiffer sidewalls. But, I've been using higher pressure than you and riding with almost no baggage, so that might be something to do with it. Next time I have the Marathons on, I'll try lower pressure.


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## bpsmith (4 Jul 2018)

mjr said:


> Neither statement seems correct to me: DC+ is not DC and DC+ is rated 5 out of 7 by Schwalbe. The Lugano is level 3, as are Road Cruiser and the venerable HS-159 and many others.


Such is true. I missed the + sign. Thanks for correcting.

It just proves the same point though. There are as many tourer style tyres with poor protection as there are road tyres.

My point was that people state road tyres are “Flimsy” when the manufacturers websites themselves prove otherwise.


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## SkipdiverJohn (4 Jul 2018)

bpsmith said:


> Such is true. I missed the + sign. Thanks for correcting.
> 
> It just proves the same point though. There are as many tourer style tyres with poor protection as there are road tyres.
> 
> My point was that people state road tyres are “Flimsy” when the manufacturers websites themselves prove otherwise.



There is certainly a lot less rubber in the typical road pattern tyre, otherwise there would not be such a significant weight difference. It is true though that some of them do offer a respectable degree of puncture protection, but it would take a lot to convince me that they are the equal of a touring tyre in terms of service life.


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## bpsmith (5 Jul 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There is certainly a lot less rubber in the typical road pattern tyre, otherwise there would not be such a significant weight difference. It is true though that some of them do offer a respectable degree of puncture protection, but it would take a lot to convince me that they are the equal of a touring tyre in terms of service life.


Now that’s a different question. Used on the same terrain, I would imagine the Tourer would indeed last longer due to said additional rubber, rather than flimsiness of the road tyre.


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## Tilley (5 Jul 2018)

Anyone got an opinion on the Marathon 365 tyre, I'm thinking of it as a potential replacement for the rear tyre on a tadpole trike, currently running the Mad Mike BMX tyre.


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## NickWi (21 Jul 2018)

I've just taken the Marathon Plus off my bike, just too heavy.

My bike (an Orbea Gain E-Bike) originally came with 40mm gravel tyres which were okay, but I wanted something narrower for the summer. As it happened I had a pair of 32mm Marathon Plus destined for my Tandem, but not yet fitted, so I put them on the Orbea. They seemed to ride okay with neither cause for complaint or recommendation and I rode a couple of hundred miles with them on it. However, after doing an Audax on it a few weeks ago I came to the conclusion they were just too heavy. Despite having the, err, advantage of the motor on hills, you could just feel the weight of the wheels on the hills and when accelerating. The weekend before last I ditched them for something much lighter, the new Pirelli P Zero 4S in 28mm. They knocked a whole 1Kg off the total weight of the bike, but more importantly it took1/2kg off the rotational mass of each wheel.

I did another Audax last weekend and wow what a difference! This has made the whole bike feel livelier, climb better and generally roll along a lot more comfortably. Okay I accept there is a lot less puncture resistance, but Pirelli do build some in and I can live with the greater risk of a puncture for the benefit of a much nicer ride and the improvement less rolling resistance will do for the battery range.

The Plus's will go on the Tandem in due course and on that the weight penalty won't matter, but having suffered punctures on a fully loaded tandem (complete with an Arai drum brake that has to be disconnected with nuts & bolts), the extra protection will definitely be appreciated.


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## froze (7 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> That's very interesting, thanks.
> 
> For my old tourer I have two identical sets of wheels, one with Marathon Greenguard and one with Gatorskins. The Marathons definitely feel more sluggish and I feel more fatigued after a ride - and I've assumed it's due to the stiffer sidewalls. But, I've been using higher pressure than you and riding with almost no baggage, so that might be something to do with it. Next time I have the Marathons on, I'll try lower pressure.



Keep in mind that Gatorskins are lighter in weight because they don't have anywhere near the puncture resistance nor the tread life that the Marathons have, also Gatorskin Duraskin sidewalls are very thin and flimsy which attributes to the tires smoother ride but it also makes the tire much more prone to sidewall damage then any other tire on the market that's not a Conti, almost the entire line of Conti road tires have thin flimsy sidewalls and the Duraskin sidewall is not designed to take much damage. Also a smoother riding tire feels faster when in reality it may not be, in fact the Gatorskin rolling resistance takes 20.2 watts to turn with 100 psi whereas the Marathon Greenguard takes only 1.1 watt more...you cannot feel 1.1 watts, the very least amount of watts a human can perceive is 3 watts, now a 1 watt difference could make or break a 100 mile race by about 10 seconds but neither of those tires are racing tires so gaining 10 seconds over 100 miles is not even remotely important nor remotely noticeable; what you are feeling is the smoother ride of the Gatorskin. And when you think about it, only losing 1 watt of energy over a tire that is about 450 grams lighter is truly amazing.

The sidewall thickness of the Gatorskin is just .7 mm thick whereas the Marathon Greenguard is 1.65 mm thick; the tread thickness is 3.2 mm thick for the Gator and 7.3 for the Greenguard. The Marathon plus a bit thicker in the tread and sidewall vs the Greenguard. Thicker sidewalls do make installing them more difficult which is something to keep in mind, however also keep in mind that a tough to install tire will be tougher to come off the rim if a blowout occurs, and for that reason I prefer tough to install tires. I found the Marathon to be difficult to install so I heated them in an over at 125 degrees for about 20 minutes which made it a bit less difficult, also using a tool called the VAR Tyre RP-42500 lever makes putting on that last 2 or so inches a snap.

According to recent tests the top three tires for puncture resistance in order of least to best is #3 Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard; #2 Schwalbe Marathon Plus; and #1 the Vittoria Randonneur...but this tire is noticeably slower using a full 12 watts more than the Schwalbe tires, I'm not going to want to haul 45 or pounds of weight around and be slowed down some more by tires! So while the Vittoria may have the best puncture resistance on the market I'll go with the Schwalbe.

Speaking of rolling resistance, you can reduce rolling resistance by 1 to 2 watts on any tire by simply using liberal amount of talc on the tube before you install; and you can reduce it another 2 to 3 watts using latex tubes but I find these tubes to be too fragile plus they're difficult to patch.

Because I only use those tires on my touring bike, and since I don't like to have flats when I tour especially in the rear I've installed a flat liner in the rear tire only called the Clean Motion RhinoDillos, there is no test for rolling resistance using these liners. I use only Specialized Turbo tubes which don't weigh as much as a lot of other regular tubes, and their consistency is good and their valves are high quality.


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## Truth (7 Aug 2018)

Not keen on the Gatorskins then  
Good call on the sidewalls as I have a bit of damage on my Gatorskins there I noticed yesterday.


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## Alan O (7 Aug 2018)

froze said:


> Keep in mind that Gatorskins are lighter in weight because they don't have anywhere near the puncture resistance nor the tread life that the Marathons have, also Gatorskin Duraskin sidewalls are very thin and flimsy which attributes to the tires smoother ride but it also makes the tire much more prone to sidewall damage then any other tire on the market that's not a Conti, almost the entire line of Conti road tires have thin flimsy sidewalls and the Duraskin sidewall is not designed to take much damage. Also a smoother riding tire feels faster when in reality it may not be, in fact the Gatorskin rolling resistance takes 20.2 watts to turn with 100 psi whereas the Marathon Greenguard takes only 1.1 watt more...you cannot feel 1.1 watts, the very least amount of watts a human can perceive is 3 watts, now a 1 watt difference could make or break a 100 mile race by about 10 seconds but neither of those tires are racing tires so gaining 10 seconds over 100 miles is not even remotely important nor remotely noticeable; what you are feeling is the smoother ride of the Gatorskin. And when you think about it, only losing 1 watt of energy over a tire that is about 450 grams lighter is truly amazing.
> 
> The sidewall thickness of the Gatorskin is just .7 mm thick whereas the Marathon Greenguard is 1.65 mm thick; the tread thickness is 3.2 mm thick for the Gator and 7.3 for the Greenguard. The Marathon plus a bit thicker in the tread and sidewall vs the Greenguard. Thicker sidewalls do make installing them more difficult which is something to keep in mind, however also keep in mind that a tough to install tire will be tougher to come off the rim if a blowout occurs, and for that reason I prefer tough to install tires. I found the Marathon to be difficult to install so I heated them in an over at 125 degrees for about 20 minutes which made it a bit less difficult, also using a tool called the VAR Tyre RP-42500 lever makes putting on that last 2 or so inches a snap.
> 
> ...


Interesting, but to be honest, I don't really take any notice of measurements, watts, rolling resistance and all that, because that all says nothing whatsoever about how a tyre feels out on the road - and that's what matters most to me. My Gatorskins are definitely more comfortable on a long ride and I feel less fatigued at the end - and fatigue has a lot to do with comfort. Sure, I know they will puncture more easily than my Marathons and won't last as long. But I can fix punctures easily enough (only had one so far this year) and I can afford a new pair of tyres every couple of years - and I consider that a price well worth paying for superior comfort. For me, Marathons come into their own when some of the surfaces I ride on get a bit softer, and the better grip then swings the balance in their favour*. So when our hot dry summer comes to an end I'll be back on those. And as an aside, I find my Marathon Greenguards easy to get on and off.

*Just to add, I also switch to the Marathons if part of my ride is on rougher tracks but I don't want to use my MTB (like if I'm doing a 60-70 mile ride partly on such tracks - I'm no good on my MTB for much beyond 40 miles)


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Aug 2018)

Thanks to @froze for the detailed and informative posting. 
Having read quite a few responses on the question of tyres, I think I've decided I don't really want M+ but original Marathon sound to be at least as good as the Delta Cruiser+ I run my hybrids on, but with a much longer service life. When you consider the cost difference between M and DC+, running cost per mile should just favour the Marathon, and have roughly the same level of puncture resistance. 
I'm also considering a belt & braces approach using Dr Sludge puncture-resistant tyre liners inside a DC+ or original M tyre. Currently I'm evaluating the worth of the Dr Sludge liners by using a pair of them inside some ratty old unprotected knobbly MTB tyres fitted to my gravel & dirt track bike. If they are successful at repelling The Fairy on unprotected tyres, I may well fit them into all my wheels irrespective of tyre fitment. In theory that should give me M+ levels of protection without actually fitting M+, and the liners are re-usable when a tyre wears out and is replaced..


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## Alan O (7 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Having read quite a few responses on the question of tyres, I think I've decided I don't really want M+ but original Marathon sound to be at least as good as the Delta Cruiser+ I run my hybrids on, but with a much longer service life. When you consider the cost difference between M and DC+, running cost per mile should just favour the Marathon, and have roughly the same level of puncture resistance.


I was talking to a cycling friend not long ago about cost-effectiveness of tyres. I've only done about 600 miles on my Marathon Greenguard, so I can't really say yet, but he's used Marathon (Greenguard and Plus) on his tourer for as long as he can remember, and he's convinced they're the most economical per mile that he's ever used. I also found it interesting that he hasn't noticed any difference in longevity between the Greenguard and the Plus.


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> I also found it interesting that he hasn't noticed any difference in longevity between the Greenguard and the Plus.



I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.


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## Alan O (8 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
> Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.


Yep, I agree. I only use expensive tyres on decent bikes that I never leave unattended. I have a £30 hack bike (extravagant, I hear you say ) that has the tyres it came with (whatever they are), and when they wear out (if they wear out before I do) they'll be replaced by the cheapest I can find (within reason).


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## MarkF (8 Aug 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
> Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.



A tad pedantic but I've never paid more than £50 a pair and soon I'll have them fitted to all my bikes (bar folders), I've just put 25mm's on my road bike. I just don't want to be bothered with flats, especially when I've been to the pub!


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## Alan O (8 Aug 2018)

MarkF said:


> I just don't want to be bothered with flats, especially when I've been to the pub!


I know what you mean - I used to struggle getting my bike up to the third floor after a pub session.


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## chippyNcyclist (8 Aug 2018)

martintoomany bikes said:


> Hi,can anyone tell me how good these tyres are,looking at getting some for the winter commute,should i go for as wide as i can ie 35mm or as the current tyres are 28mm?Thanks M


I've been using these through the winter in the Cotswolds and spring since last July when an Inverness to Fort William ride then round some of the Inner Hebs resulted in 6 punctures. They are bomb proof excellent road hold and ride over anything, also very stiff. not fast but for commuting and touring excellent. I ride 32 rear and 28 front. So good that just bought the Schwalbe drano Performance for my Audax bike, same technology.


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## froze (27 Aug 2018)

Alan O said:


> Interesting, but to be honest, I don't really take any notice of measurements, watts, rolling resistance and all that, because that all says nothing whatsoever about how a tyre feels out on the road - and that's what matters most to me. My Gatorskins are definitely more comfortable on a long ride and I feel less fatigued at the end - and fatigue has a lot to do with comfort. Sure, I know they will puncture more easily than my Marathons and won't last as long. But I can fix punctures easily enough (only had one so far this year) and I can afford a new pair of tyres every couple of years - and I consider that a price well worth paying for superior comfort. For me, Marathons come into their own when some of the surfaces I ride on get a bit softer, and the better grip then swings the balance in their favour*. So when our hot dry summer comes to an end I'll be back on those. And as an aside, I find my Marathon Greenguards easy to get on and off.
> 
> *Just to add, I also switch to the Marathons if part of my ride is on rougher tracks but I don't want to use my MTB (like if I'm doing a 60-70 mile ride partly on such tracks - I'm no good on my MTB for much beyond 40 miles)



Yes I said that, the Ghettoskins will be more comfortable due to the paper thin sidewalls, but they won't hold up to damage like the Marathon nor will they last anywhere near as long as the Marathon. One poster here claimed he's got 10,000 miles on his rear Marathon, the Ghettoskins will be lucky to get 4,000 "IF" something doesn't first destroy the sidewall. I haven't had mine anywhere near 10,000 miles plus I'm only using them for loaded touring so the added weight I seriously doubt I'll get 10,000 miles, but I'm not one to change out tires till the absolutely have to be, so I could be using those Marathons for a long while yet. Fatigue isn't an issue because the weight of the touring gear plus me, and the fact they roll as well as the Ghettoskins doesn't equate to any fatigue issues.

I can fix punctures myself, I've been doing that for over 40 years from tubulars to clinchers, even patched tubulars on the side of the road which is sort of a long process but if I had gone through my 2 spares then it was needle and thread time. So I didn't buy the Marathons because I'm afraid of flats, I bought them because these were going on a fully loaded touring bike with fenders and a flat becomes quite time consuming with having to remove the panniers and moving the fenders, so I prefer not to be bothered with all of that.

Rims are all different, when I installed the new Marathons Greenguards on my rims they were a bit of struggle due to the tight fit, I assume once they've been on for awhile they'll be easier the next time. But I prefer tight fitting tires because then if by chance I blow a tire it won't suddenly come off the rim like loose fitting tires can.


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## Truth (31 Aug 2018)

You lot drive me mad ! 
I was always quite happy with my Gatorskins (although as said previously in this thread I did have a bit of a dodgy period with them) but now I am about to buy a new bike on the cycle to work scheme , that has Vittoria Zaffiro tyres on (700x32), I am wondering whether to switch to Schwalbe.
I am getting the bike from Cycle Republic and will get some new tyres installed by them . I am looking at the whole Schwalbe range on Halfords website and I am getting more and more confused as to what to choose.
The Marathon+ (700x32) are only £6 each more than the standard Marathon but IF the Marathons (700x25 or 700x28) are a lot easier to get on / off than the plus's I may go for them?
I run Gatorskin 700x25 at the moment but would ideally like to go to a 700x28 but I am not that bothered if I go to a 700x32.
I know its all about personal opinion but I value peoples opinions on here so fire away with them......
By the way I am having a Boardman Team Hybrid 2016 bike and it will cost me £310 through the scheme which is a bargain I believe (even if it is an older spec bike)


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## vickster (31 Aug 2018)

Marathon plus, heavy, slow, slippery. Durano raceguard all the way for me


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## Alan O (31 Aug 2018)

Truth said:


> You lot drive me mad !
> I was always quite happy with my Gatorskins (although as said previously in this thread I did have a bit of a dodgy period with them) but now I am about to buy a new bike on the cycle to work scheme , that has Vittoria Zaffiro tyres on (700x32), I am wondering whether to switch to Schwalbe.
> I am getting the bike from Cycle Republic and will get some new tyres installed by them . I am looking at the whole Schwalbe range on Halfords website and I am getting more and more confused as to what to choose.
> The Marathon+ (700x32) are only £6 each more than the standard Marathon but IF the Marathons (700x25 or 700x28) are a lot easier to get on / off than the plus's I may go for them?
> ...


The only two I can compare are Marathons (not plus) and Gartorskins, both 32mm and alternated on the same touring bike on roads, cycle paths, gravel, hard earth...

Marathons feel stiffer and more sluggish, and I'm more fatigued at the end of a long ride with them. And they don't feel as grippy on dry tarmac as Gatorskins. But their longevity seems amazing, and they're almost certainly going to be the most cost effective tyres I've used. Puncture protection seems excellent

Gatorskins are more comfortable and feel a little faster, and have better grip on tarmac - but any hint of mud or other slippy stuff, and the grip is gone. I enjoy a ride on them more, and feel less fatigued. Longevity isn't going to be anywhere near as good as the Marathons, and puncture protection (especially sidewall) is inferior.

My answer? Gatorskins for the summer and Marathons for the winter.

I have no experience of Vittoria tyres.


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## Truth (31 Aug 2018)

vickster said:


> Marathon plus, heavy, slow, slippery. Durano raceguard all the way for me



I can get those for £15 each , that's another tyre to consider now !


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## vickster (31 Aug 2018)

Truth said:


> I can get those for £15 each in 700x32 , that's another tyre to consider now !


Spa usually have the 28s at a reasonable price

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s121p3574/SCHWALBE-Durano-HS464-Folding

They put these on my Ti. Roll well and smoothly


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## Truth (31 Aug 2018)

I can get them in 25's , 28's and 32's for £15 from Halfords. Could get them as pick up from Cycle Republic when I get the bike and get them to fit them before I get there....... lazy eh !


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## mjr (31 Aug 2018)

Truth said:


> I can get those for £15 each , that's another tyre to consider now !


Be aware that raceguard is old style nylon fabric, which stops many things but isn't as effective as the dense rubbery stuff in Marathons. Take your pick.


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## Truth (31 Aug 2018)

I did notice that mate ...... why is nothing simple ......


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## Alan O (31 Aug 2018)

Truth said:


> why is nothing simple ......


Because... marketing!


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## Truth (31 Aug 2018)

Correct


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## Truth (1 Sep 2018)

Thanks for all of the opinions folks. I am going to stick with the tyres that are on for a few weeks , when I pick it up ,and look to buy and have tyres fitted when it goes in for the 6 week checkover.
I will have a good think about it in between..... 
Cheers again


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## GuyBoden (11 Oct 2018)

It's easy to get the Marathon+ tyres on some rims, but on some rims it's difficult.


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## Truth (11 Oct 2018)

You've reminded me of my tyre dilemna now 
Think I am going with the standard Marathons although I did start looking at the Durano's a couple of weeks ago....
Loving my new bike by the way and I like the tyres too but its just that puncture protection playing on my mind...


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## sleuthey (12 Oct 2018)

Did a tyre change this time last year. Was using Vittoria Randonneurs and replaced with Marathon Originals. Decided not to go for Marathon Plus due to reports of higher resistance and weight. Even the Original Marathons were noticably worse than the Randonneurs - ie grip on drain covers and a slower tyre. After 12 miles I removed them and bought some new Randonneurs which were cheap at the time at CRC


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## vickster (12 Oct 2018)

Truth said:


> You've reminded me of my tyre dilemna now
> Think I am going with the standard Marathons although I did start looking at the Durano's a couple of weeks ago....
> Loving my new bike by the way and I like the tyres too but its just that puncture protection playing on my mind...


Have you been plagued by punctures then?


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## GuyBoden (12 Oct 2018)

sleuthey said:


> Did a tyre change this time last year. Was using Vittoria Randonneurs and replaced with Marathon Originals. Decided not to go for Marathon Plus due to reports of higher resistance and weight. Even the Original Marathons were noticably worse than the Randonneurs - ie grip on drain covers and a slower tyre. After 12 miles I removed them and bought some new Randonneurs which were cheap at the time at CRC



I have Vittoria Randonneur on the front and Marathon+ on the rear on my winter bike. 
The Vittoria Randonneur wears a lot quicker than the Marathon+.

I have Vittoria Randonneur front/rear on my summer bike, I like them a lot for their great puncture resistance, especially on the top of the tread, but the sidewalls are thinner than the sidewalls of the Marathon+.


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## Blue Hills (12 Oct 2018)

Haven't managed to read the entire thread.

I fitted a Marathon on the back of my expedition bike after two or three punctures with its supplied Schwalbe Marathon Cross Raceguard tyres.

Original still on the front.

Yes the bike maybe feels a bit more draggy but after all it has 1.75inch tyres on 26 inch wheels so never going to be a speed machine, is often very heavily loaded and I don't fancy fixing a puncture by the side of a dark canal. More important to me that I keep on rolling. Recently did a 140 mile ride through the night and into the day on that bike - a fair bit on mild off road. So pleased I decided to use that bike with those tyres. I got on the bike feeling that I could take on pretty much anything. And ended it the same way.

Seems to be wearing well, in fact little visible wear.

Am very pleased.

I think I would recommend for any heavy duty touring in dodgy weather.


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## Blue Hills (12 Oct 2018)

mjr said:


> Be aware that raceguard is old style nylon fabric, which stops many things but isn't as effective as the dense rubbery stuff in Marathons. Take your pick.


Thanks. Maybe explains the curious punctures on my Ridgeback Expedition's original tyres.


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## Truth (12 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Have you been plagued by punctures then?


Not until I replied "no , not at all" to your post ...... 
Really like the original tyres but I want something with more protection for peace of mind.


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## vickster (12 Oct 2018)

Truth said:


> Not until I replied "no , not at all" to your post ......
> Really like the original tyres but I want something with more protection for peace of mind.


Just carry an inner tube, tyre levers and a pump


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## Truth (12 Oct 2018)

I do but they don't get me into work on time after I have used them


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## Nebulous (13 Oct 2018)

I've an Edinburgh Bike cyclocross bike I use for a very short commute, and some laden work miles. It has 35 mm marathons, not pluses. I've a Topeak trunk bag I carry laptop, clothes, papers, tube, patches, pump, tyre levers etc in. I've never had a puncture on it and unfortunately have become a bit blase. Occasionally when working away from home I take it with me. I'll do 20 miles or so in the evening or early morning before my hotel breakfast and its often only after getting back to my hotel that I realise I've been out without bag, tubes, etc. Some day I'm going to regret it, but to date I've got off with it. 

I'm also surprised how little difference it makes speedwise. Heavy bike, probably about 15 kilos with rack, lights etc, flat pedals and these very dull feeling tyres. It feels really good going home to my best bike, carbon fibre grand prix tyres, around 8 kilos. Given variations in climb, wind, leg condition it is difficult to tell what difference it makes, but average speeds are closer than I have any right to expect.


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## hoopdriver (13 Oct 2018)

There is an awful lot of nonsense and hyperbole written about how Marathons and Marathon Plusses are like tank treads, weigh a tonne, slow you down to a crawl etc. I have never found any of that to be true. I have been running my bikes on Marathon Plusses for years now. On tours I have ridden as much as 150 miles in a day on them so I can't have been going _that_ slowly. Nor have I found the handling to interfere in any way with my enjoyment of being out on my bike. Whatever slight difference in average speed there might be is more than compensated for by the lack of punctures. Depending on where you live (or tour) and the state of your roads, if you calculate the time lost to punctures one might well conclude that Marathon Plusses are a pretty damn quick tyre.


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## SkipdiverJohn (13 Oct 2018)

hoopdriver said:


> There is an awful lot of nonsense and hyperbole written about how Marathons and Marathon Plusses are like tank treads, weigh a tonne, slow you down to a crawl etc. I have never found any of that to be true. .



I can't comment on M+ as I've never owned them, but I've got 700c wheels fitted with both Delta Cruiser+ and original Marathon Greenguard, which have the same Level 5 puncture resistance and I can't detect any difference in rolling resistance. If there is any, then it's literally a couple of watts, and in the real world no cyclist can detect that small a difference. You would only be able to determine that under controlled testing conditions such as that done by bicyclerollingresistance.


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## sleuthey (14 Oct 2018)

GuyBoden said:


> The Vittoria Randonneur wears a lot quicker than the Marathon+.



Yep. Your right there. The main down side to Randonneurs. But then again I enjoy changing them. They are not as cheap as they used to be though.


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## mjr (14 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5410479, member: 9609"]
I take it that blue stuff is the layer of protection ?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, there are cutaways on Schwalbe's site. Blue on the plus, green on the Greenguard. Used to be yellow in regular Marathons.


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## Alan O (16 Oct 2018)

I just want to add an observation about my Marathon Greenguard tyres after a ride yesterday afternoon.

I ride a lot on cycle paths and canal towpaths, and there's often a lot of broken glass (mainly tiny fragments from old broken bottles scattered over wide areas).

And while I was sat by the towpath having some refreshment, I decided I'd closely inspect my tyres (for no real reason other than the sunlight was perfect for it). I was surprised by the number of small glass cuts I found in the tread. I can't help wondering how many punctures I'd have had over the ~800 miles I've so far ridden on them had I had lesser tyres.


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## GuyBoden (16 Oct 2018)

Alan O said:


> I just want to add an observation about my Marathon Greenguard tyres after a ride yesterday afternoon.
> 
> I ride a lot on cycle paths and canal towpaths, and there's often a lot of broken glass (mainly tiny fragments from old broken bottles scattered over wide areas).
> 
> And while I was sat by the towpath having some refreshment, I decided I'd closely inspect my tyres (for no real reason other than the sunlight was perfect for it). I was surprised by the number of small glass cuts I found in the tread. I can't help wondering how many punctures I'd have had over the ~800 miles I've so far ridden on them had I had lesser tyres.



My unscientific experience:
Marathon Green guard = 2 punctures
Marathon+ Blue guard = No punctures


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Oct 2018)

GuyBoden said:


> My unscientific experience:
> Marathon Green guard = 2 punctures
> Marathon+ Blue guard = No punctures



Over what mileage?


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## SkipdiverJohn (16 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5412625, member: 9609"]out of curiosity, your name 'skip driver john' does this refer to driving an old banger that resembles a skip like I do, or does it refer to the wagon with the clanging chains ?[/QUOTE]

I have got an old banger I keep for dirty tasks, but the name primarily refers to the fact I will skip salvage useful stuff that I come across FOC - like old ratty bikes.


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