# The Sun Newspaper



## SurlyNomad (10 Sep 2011)

Anyone seen the Sun newspaper today? page 21! Shocking!  Headline is Cyclist in battering.


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## apollo179 (10 Sep 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> Anyone seen the Sun newspaper today? page 21! Shocking!  Headline is Cyclist in battering.



Ive not seen it.
I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
I would definitely never buy the sun.
edit
Remember Hillsborough.
Never buy the sun !


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## SurlyNomad (10 Sep 2011)

A newspaper is a newspaper, some better than others and some not as good! Its the story i was getting at anyway not the bloody paper.


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## oldfatfool (10 Sep 2011)

Care to expand on the headline?? 

Being the sun it could be anything form a Cyclist being beaten senseless to lycra clad fish fryer down the local chippy


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## SurlyNomad (10 Sep 2011)

Sorry OFF! It says A driver (ALLEGEDLY) battered a cyclist with a hammer 15 times for pedalling too slowly. The motorist could not pass the rider aged 60,as he wobbled up a hill against a strong wind! Police (ALLEGE) he nudged the cyclist with his vauxhall Nova then took a hammer from the boot to hit him about the head and body. The victim was taken to hospital but was not seriously hurt, was in fine spirits. It was a young lad (20) hence the Nova! Been charged and released on bail.


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## oldfatfool (10 Sep 2011)

What's the country coming to?


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## numbnuts (10 Sep 2011)

> aged 60,as he wobbled up a hill against a strong wind


God that could me me I'll take a hammer with me the next time I go out
I'm very glad he's not too badly hurt


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## ohnovino (10 Sep 2011)

Road.cc had a link to that story in a local paper - the focus of that report seemed to be on the cyclist not wearing a helmet.


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## billy1561 (10 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



It's off topic but..
+1


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## david1701 (10 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



whats the score with remember Hillsborough here? I guess you mean the stands collapsing 'Hillsborough Disaster' but how are the sun involved?


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## cjb (10 Sep 2011)

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good story"


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## Red Light (10 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



You mean the Weekday News of the World.


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## downfader (10 Sep 2011)

Bournemouth Echo reported this last week. 
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9242...n_15_times_with_hammer_for_riding_too_slowly/


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## PedAntics (10 Sep 2011)

david1701 said:


> whats the score with remember Hillsborough here? I guess you mean the stands collapsing 'Hillsborough Disaster' but how are the sun involved?



http://en.wikipedia....e_Sun_newspaper

Hope that clarifies your query.



oldfatfool said:


> What's the country coming to?



Some parts of society have little regard for people or property, sad but true. Unfortunately it would appear cyclists are fair game on the road. I've twice had passengers lean out of passing vehicles attempting, or so it seemed, to push me from my road bike. On neither occasion was I impeding the traffic. Hopefully the purpetrator will be suitably punished, however it'll probably not be as severe as most would like.


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## david1701 (10 Sep 2011)

ouch, some good journalism there :s


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## AuraTodd (11 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



What happened concerning Hillsborough if you don't mind me asking?


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## MontyVeda (11 Sep 2011)

AuraTodd said:


> What happened concerning Hillsborough if you don't mind me asking?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun_newspaper


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## DiddlyDodds (11 Sep 2011)

Uncle Mort said:


> The Sun told a pack of lies about it at the instigation of the then editor, the odious shoot Kelvin McKenzie.



The Sun does not sell on Merseyside after what they said happened that day , strange enough everywhere else in the country its sold , so make of that what you will.


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## martint235 (11 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



I think that's the first thing you've written on Cyclechat that I whole-heartedly agree with. Their reporting was unforgivable and an insult to the 96.


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## funnymummy (11 Sep 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> Sorry OFF! It says A driver (ALLEGEDLY) battered a cyclist with a hammer 15 times for pedalling too slowly. The motorist could not pass the rider aged 60,as he wobbled up a hill against a strong wind! Police (ALLEGE) he nudged the cyclist with his vauxhall Nova then took a hammer from the boot to hit him about the head and body. The victim was taken to hospital but was not seriously hurt, was in fine spirits. It was a young lad (20) hence the Nova! Been charged and released on bail.



It happened a few miles from my house.... I don't read the local paper, my frind just told me about it this afternoon... I'll be on the look out for Nova driving chavs..And i don't need no hammer 

Argus...Local newspaper


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## david k (11 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...





i live in merseyside and many places dont sell it


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## tsddave (11 Sep 2011)

Its some years since I lived in England but one thing I did learn in 35 years of living there is.....dont read the Sun newspaper!


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## david k (11 Sep 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> A newspaper is a newspaper, some better than others and some not as good! Its the story i was getting at anyway not the bloody paper.





i think we know this, nothing against you but feeling and emotions are strong over that paper


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (11 Sep 2011)

" A cyclist was hit up to 15 times with a hammer in a road rage attack.

Police believe the driver struck because he was irritated the 60-year-old cyclist was taking too long to ride up a hill.

Detective Constable Tony Taylor, said the cyclist, *who was not wearing a helmet*, was struggling against the wind preventing the driver from passing.

At least four members of the public watched in horror as the cyclist was beaten and hit up to 15 times, in Tennyson Road, Worthing on Wednesday, in what DI Taylor described as a “massive over-reaction”.

For the full story see today's Argus."

wtf has that got to do with it?


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## leemo (11 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> wtf has that got to do with it?



If he wasnt wearing a helmet he had no regard for his own safety. If he had no regard for his own safety, no one else should have any regard for his safety. Conseqeuently beating him with a hammer is perfectly acceptable and probably deserved. Simples.


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## SurlyNomad (11 Sep 2011)

(i think we know this, nothing against you but feeling and emotions are strong over that paper)


But the thread is about being hit with a hammer for riding too slowly! Not about a newspaper. I havnt been a member long enough to know everyones taste on reading material and i apologise for opening a can of worms! I myself will read whatever is put in front of me whether rightly or wrongly. I dont believe everything that is written but* i just wanted to* *highlight the cowardly attack of an old man by the youth of today*. I thought that this forum would have been the perfect place to highlight such an attack especially with it being cycle related. How wrong i was! The majority on here are more bothered about where the info came from rather than the story. Yes it was horrendous what happened Hillsborough, It shouldnt have happened, and if ive opened up some old wounds for some then this was not my intention and i full heartedly apologise again.


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## gypsy (11 Sep 2011)

PedAntics said:


> http://en.wikipedia....e_Sun_newspaper
> 
> Hope that clarifies your query.
> 
> ...



i had a 2ltr coke bottle thrown at me as they passed me on my mountain bike the bottle was full and just missed my head.trouble is you report it and all the police say is was there any witnesses.they was given the reg plate but havent heard nothing since and that was 4 months ago.ive also had cigarretes thats alight flicked at me as these arxxholes go buy,whats up with these people?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (11 Sep 2011)

leemo said:


> If he wasnt wearing a helmet he had no regard for his own safety. If he had no regard for his own safety, no one else should have any regard for his safety. Conseqeuently beating him with a hammer is perfectly acceptable and probably deserved. Simples.



poor taste.


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## Hip Priest (11 Sep 2011)

DiddlyDodds said:


> The Sun does not sell on Merseyside after what they said happened that day , strange enough everywhere else in the country its sold , so make of that what you will.



Naturally, feelings about The Sun's misreporting of Hillsborough are much stronger on Merseyside than elsewhere in Britain. People certainly read it up here in the North East, but I wouldn't buy a copy myself.


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## david k (11 Sep 2011)

SurlyNomad said:


> (i think we know this, nothing against you but feeling and emotions are strong over that paper)
> 
> 
> But the thread is about being hit with a hammer for riding too slowly! Not about a newspaper. I havnt been a member long enough to know everyones taste on reading material and i apologise for opening a can of worms! I myself will read whatever is put in front of me whether rightly or wrongly. I dont believe everything that is written but* i just wanted to* *highlight the cowardly attack of an old man by the youth of today*. I thought that this forum would have been the perfect place to highlight such an attack especially with it being cycle related. How wrong i was! The majority on here are more bothered about where the info came from rather than the story. Yes it was horrendous what happened Hillsborough, It shouldnt have happened, and if ive opened up some old wounds for some then this was not my intention and i full heartedly apologise again.





no need to apologise, youve done nothing wrong, im pointing out why people have that view of that paper and hence some of the replies. I and others realise the intention of the post and discussing related issues often happens on threads, doesnt mean the topic is wrong

yes you highlighted the attack and yes it was cowardly


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## totallyfixed (11 Sep 2011)

Yet another shocking story involving a cyclist, however, the bloke that was using the hammer must have been very inept at using one, either that or it was a rubber one. I think most people who had been hit that many times would be very seriously injured, or dead. Unless of course there was a little bit of creative writing going on, in a tabloid? What was I thinking


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## Hip Priest (11 Sep 2011)

The OP has done nothing wrong, but it might be a good idea in future to give the thread a more appropriate title (ie. 'Cyclist attacked' rather than 'The Sun Newspaper').


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## SurlyNomad (11 Sep 2011)

@HP. Point taken.


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## ian turner (11 Sep 2011)

It's more often cyclists attacked by tabloids. They like to build up non readers as bogey men threats to decent citizens and play on their readers fears. The bogey man in that story will be youth the threat to our nation.


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## MissTillyFlop (11 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...



+96


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## CopperCyclist (11 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> The OP has done nothing wrong, but it might be a good idea in future to give the thread a more appropriate title (ie. 'Cyclist attacked' rather than 'The Sun Newspaper').



Someone would have asked for a link, he would have mentioned the Sun and we'd probably be here anyway.

Horrific story though. Is there anything saying how badly the chap was hurt?


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## growingvegetables (12 Sep 2011)

bromptonfb said:


> " A cyclist was hit up to 15 times with a hammer in a road rage attack.
> 
> .... *who was not wearing a helmet*, ......
> 
> wtf has that got to do with it?



Nothing - just the Chinese water torture drip, drip, drip, drip, drip inanity.

Mind you, I have vague memories of another case, where a cyclist was beaten up? Didn't suffer brain damage - because he was wearing a helmet. **** - I just don't want to there.


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Sep 2011)

I wouldn't buy the Sun because it's crap and I don't want people thinking I'm a moron. No other reason.


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## cd365 (12 Sep 2011)

MissTillyFlop said:


> +96



R.I.P


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## BluesDave (12 Sep 2011)

*

*SurlyNomad, on 11 September 2011 - 17:42:29, said:

(i think we know this, nothing against you but feeling and emotions are strong over that paper)


But the thread is about being hit with a hammer for riding too slowly! Not about a newspaper. I havnt been a member long enough to know everyones taste on reading material and i apologise for opening a can of worms! I myself will read whatever is put in front of me whether rightly or wrongly. I dont believe everything that is written but i just wanted to highlight the cowardly attack of an old man by the youth of today. I thought that this forum would have been the perfect place to highlight such an attack especially with it being cycle related. How wrong i was! The majority on here are more bothered about where the info came from rather than the story. Yes it was horrendous what happened Hillsborough, It shouldnt have happened, and if ive opened up some old wounds for some then this was not my intention and i full heartedly apologise again.//

*All the people who say they don't buy the the Sun or ever read the Sun are desparate to have people think that they don't buy or read the Sun and what for I wonder. 
Who gives a shoot what papers you do or don't read. 
The thread is about an innocent old man out minding his own business on a bike ride being attacked by a hammer weilding 20 year old thug. 
This could quite easily have been a murder and I am very surprised that there are people who are more interested in commenting on what the incident was reported in rather than the content of that report.

There should be messages of support in this thread for the cyclist and his family calling for the head of the thug on a plate FFS.*


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## AuraTodd (12 Sep 2011)

DiddlyDodds said:


> The Sun does not sell on Merseyside after what they said happened that day , strange enough everywhere else in the country its sold , so make of that what you will.




Mr Makenzie should be very ashamed of himself. Was he at the game that day to witness these things?


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## MissTillyFlop (12 Sep 2011)

Sorry it's been overshadowed by the Sun thing, (but any opportunity to convince a person to not buy The Sun, I will take!).

I think the lack of reaction could be that we all know that the guy will get off with two months suspended nothing-at-all-really, as apparently being in a car gives you free reign to maim and kill as many people as you like.


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## Bicycle (12 Sep 2011)

apollo179 said:


> Ive not seen it.
> I would not see it because i would not read the sun.
> I would definitely never buy the sun.
> edit
> ...




Dreadful story about the cyclist. 

Dreadful business at Hillsborough, only a decade or so after the horror of Heysel.

Respects to all the fans who died at both tragedies; one frequently recalled, the other rarely mentioned.

Holidaying in Italy a month after Heysel, I spoke only French and Italian. It was not a good time for a young man in Italy to be from the UK.

RIP everyone who goes to see a match and doesn't get home.


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Sep 2011)

AuraTodd said:


> Mr Makenzie should be very ashamed of himself. Was he at the game that day to witness these things?



Mr MacKenzie is an utter arse, quite apart from the Hillsborough thing. Did anyone else hear him on "Any Questions" on Radio 4 a few months ago? A complete nob on a stick.


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## dellzeqq (12 Sep 2011)

Rhythm Thief said:


> I wouldn't buy the Sun because it's crap and I don't want people thinking I'm a moron. No other reason.


oh, yeah? What about if you were marooned on a desert island with nothing but fig trees, tinned prunes, an espresso machine and a newsagents that had run out of any other newspaper? Answer me that one!


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## Rhythm Thief (12 Sep 2011)

I'd nick a copy when no one was looking.


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## asterix (12 Sep 2011)

Well you would need something to wipe your arse with all those prunes and figs to live on.

When Hillsborough happened I lived in Manchester and as we all know Mancs hate Liverpudlians. Nevertheless the local newsagents was left with most if not all copies of the infamous Sun on that occasion.


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## Emmanuel Obikwelu (12 Sep 2011)

DavidDecorator said:


> *All the people who say they don't buy the the Sun or ever read the Sun are desparate to have people think that they don't buy or read the Sun and what for I wonder.
> Who gives a shoot what papers you do or don't read.
> The thread is about an innocent old man out minding his own business on a bike ride being attacked by a hammer weilding 20 year old thug.
> This could quite easily have been a murder and I am very surprised that there are people who are more interested in commenting on what the incident was reported in rather than the content of that report.
> ...



The focusing of attention on the newspaper rather than the story is understandable given the topic title "The Sun Newspaper". I doubt the same would have resulted if the title had been "motorist beats up cyclist with hammer" or similar and the name of the newspaper mentioned as an incidental fact.


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## david k (12 Sep 2011)

DavidDecorator said:


> *
> 
> *SurlyNomad, on 11 September 2011 - 17:42:29, said:
> 
> ...





many thread deviate off topic, regarding the sun it is hardly way off topic when its the title of the thread. It is relevent to mention as the story was relating to a story in that newspaper, if we dont read it it is perfectly normal to say so and say why. the thread then continued to discuss the paper as people asked why. then people like you discuss it further which leads to replies, and the discussion goes on again. If you really dont think there is an issue to discuss the paper then dont generate posts relating to it. If you truely think the only posts that can be posted are relating to the story and not the title of the thread then can you please remain on topic


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## Stephenite (12 Sep 2011)

asterix said:


> and as we all know Mancs hate Liverpudlians.



This Manc doesn't hate Liverpudlians, or even scousers for that matter.


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## Bobtoo (12 Sep 2011)

totallyfixed said:


> Yet another shocking story involving a cyclist, however, the bloke that was using the hammer must have been very inept at using one, either that or it was a rubber one. I think most people who had been hit that many times would be very seriously injured, or dead. Unless of course there was a little bit of creative writing going on, in a tabloid? What was I thinking



I thought the same. It's churnalism rather than creative writing though, it seems to be exactly the same wording as in the local rag.


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## david k (12 Sep 2011)

[QUOTE 1539210"]
I saw him on Question time about 3 months ago. Complete and utter moron who ranted and raved yet did no really know what he was ranting and raving about.t
[/quote]

and when did that ever stop a journalist?


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## SurlyNomad (12 Sep 2011)

Ok i get the idea that no one or hardly anyone likes the sun! fair do's and for whatever reason i dont want a debate on it as i was only highlighting the fact that an elderly gentleman was attacked while riding a bike. At the end of the day i for one hope hes ok.


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## dellzeqq (13 Sep 2011)

pound to a penny the kid with the hammer was a Sun reader


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## david k (13 Sep 2011)

dellzeqq said:


> pound to a penny the kid with the hammer was a Sun reader


reader?


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## dellzeqq (13 Sep 2011)

david k said:


> reader?


oops!


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2011)

The Sun is a Newspaper Shaped Object.


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## RedRider (13 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> The Sun is a Newspaper Shaped Object.



More an anti-newspaper. I'm not a violent man but dread to think what'll happen if I ever come face to face with Kelvin Mac***zie.


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## david k (13 Sep 2011)

User said:


> I find it funny that nobody reads the sun, but......
> 
> Best-selling papers as of January, 2011, according to the Audit Bureau of Circulations, are _The Sun_, 3,001,822, _The Daily Mail_, 2,136,568 and the _Daily Mirror_, 1,194,097.
> 
> ...



as far asi am aware these feelings are only in merseyside, or most noticeable in merseyside anyway


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## Bicycle (13 Sep 2011)

We kept reading the Telegraph when it was in the hands of Conrad Black.

We kept reading the Times when it was (and remains) in the hands of RM and his honest clan.

Nothing we now read about Black or Murdoch surprises anybody, because it seems to fit what we expect.

Plenty of people (not I) read the Express when it was in the hands of the enthusiastic pornographer Desmond.

Plenty of us still watch Channel 5, which he now owns...

The Sun is an easy target. Sun readers will always be ridiculed. 

I have no feelings one way or another about how it covered Hillsborough. I think one can keep a slight simmering for too long. 

The Merseysiders who now boycott the Sun cannot have stopped buying it if they were not at some stage buying it....

The Times still sells on the Mersey, despite being owned by the same family.


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## freecyclist (13 Sep 2011)

david k said:


> as far asi am aware these feelings are only in merseyside, or most noticeable in merseyside anyway



afaiaa these feelings are principally in the inteligent and football supporters of all clubs and liverpudlians in general.


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## david k (13 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> We kept reading the Telegraph when it was in the hands of Conrad Black.
> 
> We kept reading the Times when it was (and remains) in the hands of RM and his honest clan.
> 
> ...



not just buyers but many places dont stock it


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## Inertia (13 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> The Times still sells on the Mersey, despite being owned by the same family.


This is because the issue wasn't with the owners it was with the paper, its a very successful boycott in Liverpool largely because it IS so focused on one paper. As soon as you dilute it it becomes harder to maintain.


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## RedRider (13 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I think one can keep a *slight* simmering for too long.



It was more than a slight. The repellent lies it told (under the unprecedented headline 'The Truth') about recently bereaved friends and family was a key part of a deliberate smear campaign against fans to save the backsides of a few inadequate policemen. In my opinion it's one of the reasons the family of those who died are yet to receive the common decency of an adequate inquest.

The recent phonehacking scandal has shone a light on the murky relationships between police, government and news media. Those with knowledge of Hillsborough already had a visceral understanding of the damage they cause.


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## Hip Priest (13 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> I have no feelings one way or another about how it covered Hillsborough. I think one can keep a slight simmering too long.



I find it odd that anyone would have no feelings either way. We're talking about a newspaper reporting lies about dead citizens (some of whom were children) and their families. Surely anyone would feel that was a bad thing?


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## Bicycle (13 Sep 2011)

Hip Priest said:


> I find it odd that anyone would have no feelings either way. We're talking about a newspaper reporting lies about dead citizens (some of whom were children) and their families. Surely anyone would feel that was a bad thing?



Odd it is then.

Many of the print media were pretty rough on the fans in the immediate aftermath of the game.

The Sun (as ever) was twice as crass, twice as vitriolic and twice and offensive, but rightly or wrongly there was a thread running through much of Fleet Street along the lines of _'the fans must bear some of the responsibility'_. 

The Sun is not considered much of an organ of record. It's all about sales and has been for many years. That it was so widely bought on Merseyside before Hillsborough is a sign of how well it knew its readership.

I expect the Sun to be wrong. In spades. 

A memorable example on the Reagan Gorbachev summit in Rekyavik: "Ronnie, Don't trust this Commie smoothie". Oops!

I've been going to soccer games for decades: 1st Division (now Prem) and Leagues 1 & 2 (3rd/4th Div). I know how it was before Taylor and how it is now. 

The Sun overstated things, was crass and unfeeling, was listening to the wrong people and paid the price (on Merseyside). I recall some pretty beastly press coverage after Heysel too, where there had been aggression from Liverpool fans but that wasn't the primary cause of the deaths. In those days (and to a lesser exten today) it was expected that poor behaviour might be a cause of deaths at a game. In the case of Hillsborough, Taylor judged that drunkenness among fans was only a minor or secondary contributory factor. The Sun was wrong. No charges for robbing the victims were ever brought. The Sun was wrong. The thing about peeing on coppers was just silly and offensive. The Sun was wrong.

My father lost his brother in Hong Kong in 1941, but never spoke a word against Japan and bought their goods. He lost many friends in Normandy but always drove a German car and numbered many former Vermacht officers among his friends. He had no room in his heart for enmity. I found that very moving and still do.

I do think one can bear a grudge for too long. But if dropping the grudge means Liverpool buying the Sun again, maybe a lasting grudge is the right response. There are better papers.

Many football fans who weren't at Hillsborough don't really have any feelings either way. I've never bought the Sun because I've never thought it a worthy buy. 

I'm sorry if my lack of feeling on this matter seems eccentric or inappropriate. I am by no means the only one.


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## freecyclist (13 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> <br />Odd it is then.<br /><br />Many of the print media were pretty rough on the fans in the immediate aftermath of the game.<br /><br />The Sun (as ever) was twice as crass, twice as vitriolic and twice and offensive, but rightly or wrongly there was a thread running through much of Fleet Street along the lines of <i>'the fans must bear some of the responsibility'</i>.  <br /><br />The Sun is not considered much of an organ of record.  It's all about sales and has been for many years.  That it was so widely bought on Merseyside before Hillsborough is a sign of how well it knew its readership.<br /><br />I expect the Sun to be wrong. In spades. <br /><br />A memorable example on the Reagan Gorbachev summit in Rekyavik:  &quot;Ronnie, Don't trust this Commie smoothie&quot;.    Oops!<br /><br />I've been going to soccer games for decades:  1st Division (now Prem) and Leagues 1 &amp; 2 (3rd/4th Div).   I know how it was before Taylor and how it is now.  <br /><br />The Sun overstated things, was crass and unfeeling, was listening to the wrong people and paid the price (on Merseyside).  I recall some pretty beastly press coverage after Heysel too, where there had been aggression from Liverpool fans but that wasn't the primary cause of the deaths.  In those days (and to a lesser exten today) it was expected that poor behaviour might be a cause of deaths at a game.  In the case of Hillsborough, Taylor judged that drunkenness among fans was only a minor or secondary contributory factor.  The Sun was wrong.  No charges for robbing the victims were ever brought.  The Sun was wrong.  The thing about peeing on coppers was just silly and offensive.  The Sun was wrong.<br /><br />My father lost his brother in Hong Kong in 1941, but never spoke a word against Japan and bought their goods.  He lost many friends in Normandy but always drove a German car and numbered many former Vermacht officers among his friends.  He had no room in his heart for enmity.  I found that very moving and still do.<br /><br />I do think one can bear a grudge for too long.  But if dropping the grudge means Liverpool buying the Sun again, maybe a lasting grudge is the right response.  There are better papers.<br /><br />Many football fans who weren't at Hillsborough don't really have any feelings either way.  I've never bought the Sun because I've never thought it a worthy buy.  <br /><br />I'm sorry if my lack of feeling on this matter seems eccentric or inappropriate.  I am by no means the only one.<br />


<br /><br /><br />
Please stop posting this sxxte


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## martint235 (13 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> Please stop posting this sxxte


What on earth is your problem? 

While I don't agree with everything bicycle said, it doesn't really warrant your comment


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## Rhythm Thief (14 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> Please stop posting this sxxte



Why?


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## freecyclist (14 Sep 2011)

martint235 said:


> What on earth is your problem?
> 
> While I don't agree with everything bicycle said, it doesn't really warrant your comment



My problem is that me and many other people still find the memory of Hillsborough very upsetting and that numbskulls like you and bicycle posting your trite rubbish without any thought to the upset and offence it causes to others makes me quite angry.
But you just carry on and post some more sxxte.


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## billy1561 (14 Sep 2011)

Maybe this can be put to bed as it is to be debated in the commons soon. The families will get the truth and justice they have waited over 20 years for.


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## martint235 (14 Sep 2011)

freecyclist said:


> My problem is that me and many other people still find the memory of Hillsborough very upsetting and that numbskulls like you and bicycle posting your trite rubbish without any thought to the upset and offence it causes to others makes me quite angry.
> But you just carry on and post some more sxxte.



I find the memory of Hillsborough very upsetting too. Having actually been present and lost people that I knew well, I don't feel you're doing justice to the memory of the people who died and the people who were injured and scarred, emotionally and physically during that tragic event. 

But each to their own. If you feel, without even knowing me, that I'm a numbskull so be it. Well done. You're the first ever person to make it to my ignore list.


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## ian turner (14 Sep 2011)

I checked up on the balance of readership of newspapers a while back and found that more women read the mail than men and more men read the Guardian than women. This is because women are more caring and sensitive  
I stick to the BBC and Channel 4 news as there are regulations ensuring balance on TV apparently though I couldn't find actual evidence of this.
I note that Gaz (the former 27 stone variety rather than 'Gaz') managed to post a thread with Daily Mail in the subject line and then went on to mention the Daily Star without starting a denunciation of the press (whereas I start a poll on RJIng which has turned into a slagging match wiuth confessions of animal rights terrorism  )


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## subaqua (14 Sep 2011)

Inertia said:


> This is because the issue wasn't with the owners it was with the paper, its a very successful boycott in Liverpool largely because it IS so focused on one paper. As soon as you dilute it it becomes harder to maintain.




correct and Alexi Sayle demonstrated how hated it was when he did his series on Liverpool.

when the new News printers presses went up in Knowlseley it made things interesting.


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## gb155 (14 Sep 2011)

User said:


> I find it funny that nobody reads the sun, but......
> 
> Best-selling papers as of January, 2011, according to the Audit Bureau of Circulations, are The Sun, 3,001,822, The Daily Mail, 2,136,568 and the Daily Mirror, 1,194,097.
> 
> ...




Look at it this way, that's 2million more that potentially now know, following my story, that cycling isn't the evil monster it's made out to be ( by the mail)


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## gb155 (14 Sep 2011)

ian turner said:


> I checked up on the balance of readership of newspapers a while back and found that more women read the mail than men and more men read the Guardian than women. This is because women are more caring and sensitive
> I stick to the BBC and Channel 4 news as there are regulations ensuring balance on TV apparently though I couldn't find actual evidence of this.
> I note that Gaz (the former 27 stone variety rather than 'Gaz') managed to post a thread with Daily Mail in the subject line and then went on to mention the Daily Star without starting a denunciation of the press (whereas I start a poll on RJIng which has turned into a slagging match wiuth confessions of animal rights terrorism )




Ah t'wasnt me that started the topic tho


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## wiggydiggy (14 Sep 2011)

Bicycle said:


> .............
> 
> *I do think one can bear a grudge for too long.*
> 
> .........



Just to highlight that point as I agree with it and I do think _some_ people take this grudge far too seriously. I was travelling last year on the same train as some Liverpool fans, I simply did not make the connection before I took a copy of the sun out my bag to start reading it. Immediately I was verbally abused, spat at and had my beard tugged (I kid you not!) for daring to read such a paper.

Was this a proper response? Of course not. 

Could I have handled it better? Well if they had asked, I could have explained as an Evertonian I emphasized with them regarding Hillsborough and the response from the newspapers at the time, but a lack of choice at the station forced me into buying _anything_ for travel reading.

It wont stop me from buying it from time to time, but I will certainly think twice before getting in out in front of drunken football fans in the future!


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## Hip Priest (14 Sep 2011)

wiggydiggy said:


> Just to highlight that point as I agree with it and I do think _some_ people take this grudge far too seriously. I was travelling last year on the same train as some Liverpool fans, I simply did not make the connection before I took a copy of the sun out my bag to start reading it. Immediately I was verbally abused, spat at and had my beard tugged (I kid you not!) for daring to read such a paper.
> 
> Was this a proper response? Of course not.
> 
> ...



Of course, such behaviour is well out of order. If a Liverpool supporter (or indeed anybody) decides to boycott The Sun, then that's fine, but nobody has the right to force that boycott on others, or intimidate Sun readers.


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## ian turner (14 Sep 2011)

gb155 said:


> Look at it this way, that's 2million more that potentially now know, following my story, that cycling isn't the evil monster it's made out to be ( by the mail)



The readership are too stupid er clever to be that easily fooled. You really lost all that weight via liposuction financed from their taxes while you were on incapacity benefit


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## ian turner (14 Sep 2011)

> but a lack of choice at the station forced me into buying _anything_ for travel reading.


Must have been a copy of heat magazine available surely ?


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## wiggydiggy (14 Sep 2011)

ian turner said:


> Must have been a copy of heat magazine available surely ?



Probably, I'm too tight to spend the £2 though when theres a cheap and dirty 30p rag going


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## Rhythm Thief (14 Sep 2011)

wiggydiggy said:


> ... a lack of choice at the station forced me into buying _anything_ for travel reading.



Christ. I'd sooner spend any length of time staring into space than read or be seen to read The Sun.


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## wiggydiggy (14 Sep 2011)

Rhythm Thief said:


> Christ. I'd sooner spend any length of time staring into space than read or be seen to read The Sun.



I can understand why its an awful paper, I spent most of my teenage years/20's reading it as the 'daily' although that was more because of a love for 'Striker' than anything else.


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## ianrauk (14 Sep 2011)

wiggydiggy said:


> I can understand why its an awful paper, I spent most of my teenage years/20's reading it as the 'daily' although that was more* because of a love for 'Striker' than anything else*.



and Hagar The Horrible...


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## wiggydiggy (14 Sep 2011)

ianrauk said:


> and Hagar The Horrible...



Thats the only decent one left these days as the vampire one is pants and the wallace and gromit one is abysmally bad. Striker was cancelled early as the writer reached the end of the club and the Sun wasnt interested in letting him finish the last 5 weeks of the story, typical attitude from them really.


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