# STAGE 17 **SPOILER**



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

The big one!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

Live here now

http://www.p2pstation.net/

Cadel Evans is struggling again already!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

Despite what they say about the Ventoux, this one will be the most crucial, I feel - at least for Bradley! If he stays in this one, he will finish on the podium.


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Interesting - it says that that feed is live, but I have a feed via Rai Sport (Italian commentary though!) which is about 10 seconds ahead of it. I wonder how many live feeds there are which aren't actually "live".

Hmmm.


----------



## dragon72 (22 Jul 2009)

Claps of thunder over the peloton. 
I would be pooing my bib shorts.


----------



## trustysteed (22 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> Live here now
> 
> http://www.p2pstation.net/



where on that site do you go to? i've been to it but can't seem to find the live tdf?


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

trustysteed said:


> where on that site do you go to? i've been to it but can't seem to find the live tdf?



I just click on the 'monitor screen' which has a football image on it.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

dragon72 said:


> Claps of *thunder* over the peloton.
> I would be pooing my bib shorts.





User3094 said:


> Looks like *Thor* trying to line himself up for a few points.
> 
> The barstard





Thor, the God of thunder - coincidence? I think not!


----------



## trustysteed (22 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> I just click on the 'monitor screen' which has a football image on it.




cheers! in which case i think it's just blocked where i am.


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

trustysteed said:


> cheers! in which case i think it's just blocked where i am.



http://www.channelsurfing.net/

Try this one - about halfway down the list


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

Great move by Thor. He was obviously stung by Cav's comments about the Green Jersey being 'stained' and has decided to make sure he gets the points on the interim sprint and makes it clear who the leader in that competition really is. Great stuff (and he thereby regains any respect he lost the other day IMHO).

What it has to show Cav is that he isn't going to win points competitions just by winning sprint stages. He has to become a more complete rider. He's done that to some extent by winning San Remo, but he quite clearly hasn't got Hushovd's experience and overall quality when it come to stage races.


----------



## dan_bo (22 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Great move by Thor. *He was obviously stung by Cav's comments about the Green Jersey being 'stained' and has decided to make sure he gets the points on the interim sprint and makes it clear who the leader in that competition really is. Great stuff (and he thereby regains any respect he lost the other day IMHO).*
> 
> What it has to show Cav is that he isn't going to win points competitions just by winning sprint stages. He has to become a more complete rider. He's done that to some extent by winning San Remo, but he quite clearly hasn't got Hushovd's experience and overall quality when it come to stage races.



If that's something like the truth, then fair enough. Not that i'd say otherwise to his face anyway.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

This has been a Tour full of great individual rides. I can't see Thor even wanting to try to stay ahead (even with a group) until the end of this stage even if he could, but this is already a superb ride by him, which means he only has t finish within a few places of Cav in Paris (assuming he wins that sprint of course...)


----------



## dragon72 (22 Jul 2009)

Thank goodness we're over the top of the Saisies. 
Now the Eurosport commentator can stop butchering its pronunciation.


----------



## Molecule Man (22 Jul 2009)

I think it would have been Hushovd 217, Cavendish 213.


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Whoa - Thor nearly lost it there!!!! (just before 81.5km to go)


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

Indeed! He needs to be a bit more careful. As they are saying the peloton are going to have to even more careful when they come through that section...


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Too late - some have gone down at the same corner


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> Whoa - Thor nearly lost it there!!!! (just before 81.5km to go)




He was very very lucky to get away with that! Even though I like Cervelo Test Team I was hoping that he went straight over the barriers then because I don't like the way he reacted about Cav and the sprint. I know, it's harsh.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

That's the chasing group... they'll probably get advanced warning to the main group.


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

The only way now for Cav would be to make the break on Friday, win the sprints, then win in Paris with Hushovd finishing nowhere near.
Not going to happen. On the other hand, you can't argue with 5 stage wins in a Tour.


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

I like Thors bike.. nice Cervelo with green rims! Nowt like rubbing Cav's face in it!


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> I like Thors bike.. nice Cervelo with green rims! Nowt like rubbing Cav's face in it!



Does look very nice indeed! Much better than the yellow theme that is running through the rest of the teams bikes.


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Thats the second time Menchov has been on the floor in the last ten minutes!


----------



## stumpy (22 Jul 2009)

Sh4rkyBloke said:


> I like Thors bike.. nice Cervelo with green rims! Nowt like rubbing Cav's face in it!



Got to agree as well...Tis v sexy lookin bike that is......


----------



## dellzeqq (22 Jul 2009)

Menchov getting a big assist from the team car (as in 'ooh, lets adjust the brakes for a while'). Hushovd 5.30 ahead of the peloton and about 2 minutes ahead of the poursuivants. ITV4 coverage of the rest of the stage!


----------



## stumpy (22 Jul 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> *Menchov getting a big assist from the team car* (as in 'ooh, lets adjust the brakes for a while'). Hushovd 5.30 ahead of the peloton and about 2 minutes ahead of the poursuivants. ITV4 coverage of the rest of the stage!




He might as well of climbed on the roof for five min's....Still I'd do the same so fair play


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

stumpy said:


> He might as well of climbed on the roof for five min's....Still I'd do the same so fair play



I've got to get someone to try that with me one time, it looks awesome! Will, you up for it?


----------



## stumpy (22 Jul 2009)

Menchov's been off more times than the recession recovery


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

Kenny Van Hummel has abandoned after another fall!


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> What it has to show Cav is that he isn't going to win points competitions just by winning sprint stages. He has to become a more complete rider.



This is what I said before the TdF started and my big reservation about Cavendish taking green this year. And I can't help but think that Hushovd, as I watch him today 5' in front and half way up the 3rd climb of the day, that he is the more rounded rider and, imo, the more deserving of the jersey. IMO I stress


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> This is what I said before the TdF started and my big reservation about Cavendish taking green this year. And I can't help but think that Hushovd, as I watch him today 5' in front and half way up the 3rd climb of the day, that he is the more rounded rider and, imo, the more deserving of the jersey. IMO I stress



Isn't that what I just said earlier?


----------



## Haitch (22 Jul 2009)

rich p said:


> Kenny Van Hummel has abandoned after another fall!




Fell in the same place as Menchov. Apparently badly cut and on his way to hospital.


----------



## yello (22 Jul 2009)

Um.... yes... that's why I quoted you. Or is there something I've missed?

Just take it as a agreement at any rate!


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

yello said:


> Um.... yes... that's why I quoted you. Or is there something I've missed?
> 
> Just take it as a agreement at any rate!



Well, you said it before the tour started so I guess you have the copyright, Yello


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Young Un said:


> I've got to get someone to try that with me one time, it looks awesome! Will, you up for it?


You're not sitting on the top of my car!


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Will1985 said:


> You're not sitting on the top of my car!



Can I stand instead of sit then?


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Opening a can of coke... on a bike.. with your teeth.. where do they learn stuff like that?


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Ah, he failed... so I guess he's still learning!! 

Edit - Not sure why he didn't get the guys in the car to open it for him.


----------



## Aperitif (22 Jul 2009)

If a sprinter stood on top of the mobile satellite broadcasting vans - 
he might Mark Carandish...


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Aperitif said:


> If a sprinter stood on top of the mobile satellite broadcasting vans -
> he might Mark Carandish...



Thats poor, I have your coat if you want it?


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

Young Un said:


> Thats poor, I have your coat if you want it?


Yeah, grab his arm; strong grip; and march him out of here.


----------



## onthe_road (22 Jul 2009)

Sarkozy riding in the race director's car...


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

To be fair to Cav - and why not? - he did say before the tour and earlier on that he cared more for winning stages at his age and experience than the green points jersey. I think he only changed his mind when he found out that it was a 2 horse race and he was one of them!


----------



## red_tom (22 Jul 2009)

Good joke from twitter

9 pairs of Rabobank team shorts for sale (ripped and soiled) size 4. Contact Denis Menchov.


----------



## RabbitFood (22 Jul 2009)

sastre is attacking


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

he's gone too early


----------



## onthe_road (22 Jul 2009)

GO WIGGO!


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Keep it up Wiggo!


----------



## dan_bo (22 Jul 2009)

this calls for a flurry of


----------



## biking_fox (22 Jul 2009)

Is Wiggins happy to settle for third? he's just marking Armstrong rather than trying to tkae time out of him? - and might lose time to the Schlecks/Kloden.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

Bradley is doing very well considering.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

Let's not forget Kloden can TT too though...


----------



## peanut (22 Jul 2009)

this is the most exciting Tour I can remember for a long time. The tension is amazing. Lance has just gone and Brad has stayed with him.
Can't wait until tomorrow.TT


----------



## rich p (22 Jul 2009)

Flying_Monkey said:


> Let's not forget Kloden can TT too though...



He's good at everything when he's visited his doctor


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Kloden and Schleck now above Armstrong and Wiggins in the virtual GC.


----------



## biking_fox (22 Jul 2009)

> Kloden and Schleck now above Armstrong and Wiggins in the virtual GC.



By nearly a minute - Kloden to Wiggins. That's quite a bit for Brad to catch up on if he wants a podium place.


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Not really - both Schlecks are pretty poor at flat time trials and with a long course like tomorrow he could easily lose a minute to Wiggins.


----------



## Pottsy (22 Jul 2009)

But then we've still got Ventoux to mix it up again


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Contador has no reason to work, but accelerates in a move which drops his team mate (and potentially pushes Kloden onto the bottom step of the virtual podium). Great teamwork - not!


----------



## Young Un (22 Jul 2009)

Armstrong has gone!


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

uh, no - he knows exactly what he's doing.


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

Currently only 8" between Kloden and Armstrong in the virtual GC - methinks an Astana 1-2-3 is on the cards.

The front riders have been talking - hopefully they'll have decided who gets the win...if Andy Schleck and Contador have jerseys, maybe Franck should get the win.


----------



## biking_fox (22 Jul 2009)

> methinks an Astana 1-2-3 is on the cards.



You mean a 1, 4,5 or are you talking about after the TT?


----------



## Kirstie (22 Jul 2009)

BAH! **** you Armstrong!! Making wiggo do all the work on the climb and then attacking like that.

BAH!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

biking_fox said:


> You mean a 1, 4,5 or are you talking about after the TT?


Obviously not today - Paris of course.


----------



## Sh4rkyBloke (22 Jul 2009)

I love the commentary kissing Lance's ar$e about how good he is at descending... and then Nibali just breezes up and past him.


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

My prediction was right. Virtual GC on Tour site has Wiggins back up to 5th.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

User3094 said:


> which is?



He was making sure Wiggins stayed put, and then when he knew nothing was doing and the gap was big enough, he then went for it. Teamwork.


----------



## Flying_Monkey (22 Jul 2009)

I think the best that Wiggins can hope for after tomorrow is 2nd, but more likely 4th or 5th. He'll lose that again on Ventoux, of course. It's still amazing.


----------



## dan_bo (22 Jul 2009)

especially considering he's riding on his tod in the hills.


----------



## Skip Madness (22 Jul 2009)

I expect Wiggins to overhaul Klöden and Fränk Schleck tomorrow. My guess at how the GC will look post-TT:

1. Alberto Contador
2. Lance Armstrong
3. Andy Schleck
4. Bradley Wiggins
5. Andreas Klöden
6. Frank Schleck
7. Vincenzo Nibali
8. Christian Vande Velde


----------



## Pottsy (22 Jul 2009)

IT'll be interesting to see how tired Wiggins will be after today (and the last 3 weeks) and how that might affect his TT tomorrow.


----------



## Dave Elcome (22 Jul 2009)

Well we are really lucky. As I type this I can look out of my hotel window at tomorrow's Time trial course. Hopefully the weather will be better, as there was a huge storm here in Annecy this morning.

We will be screaming our hearts out for Bradley as he passes us.


----------



## Aperitif (22 Jul 2009)

Dave Elcome said:


> Well we are really lucky. As I type this I can look out of my hotel window at tomorrow's Time trial course. Hopefully the weather will be better, as there was a huge storm here in Annecy this morning.
> 
> We will be screaming our hearts out for Bradley as he passes us.




Have fun - we're not envious, oh no!


----------



## Chuffy (22 Jul 2009)

Cobblers. 

If you offered me Wiggy in the top ten GC before the race, I'd have taken it and I bet he would too. But he got close enough for me to get hooked. I just hope he rips it tomorrow....


----------



## Paul_L (22 Jul 2009)

It's really weird but i feel gutted that Wiggo (by recent days) had a bad day, which is strange as he came home 7th on the day. 

Hope he can make a couple of mins of the Shlecks tomorrow and give himself chance for a podiium.

Hang in there Wiggo, and give it some tomorrow!


----------



## onthe_road (22 Jul 2009)

Wow. Just read on LA's twitter "he's gonna school me in the TT so needed some cushion."
Go Wiggo!


----------



## kevin_cambs_uk (22 Jul 2009)

What a brilliant stage, Armstrong looked like his old self, and I think Wiggo will do well tomorrow, but I do think that come the Ventoux, its every man for himself, which will be interesting, as I don't think Astana can control the Schleck brothers, and I think Lance will finish 4th.


----------



## SimonRoberts0204 (22 Jul 2009)

How much time are we talking between tomorrows winner -> shleck bros -> armstrong -> wiggo? (not in that order, obviously)

I've no idea how much the gaps are in time trials such as this


----------



## Will1985 (22 Jul 2009)

The time gaps tonight are as follows:

Contador - *2'26"* - A Schleck - *0'59"* - F Schleck - *0'30"* - Armstrong - *0'49"* - Kloden - *0'09"* - Wiggins - *0'16"* - Nibali

The key figures are that Wiggins is *2'27"* off Andy and *1'29"* off Armstrong.

Note that I've left Franck out of the equation - he is the worst time triallist of the top 7...remember that Sastre caught him for 3 minutes last year, and he finished *1'18"* below Contador in Monaco on a short hilly course. Speaking of last year, only 3 of the top 7 competed last year in the 53km TT - Andy was 4' down on dopehead Schumacher, then Nibali and Franck were both about 5'30" down.

Annecy is obviously a lot longer and favours flat time triallists like Wiggins even though there is a bump at 25km. This works against both Schlecks straight away. If Wiggo has recovered nicely, he might come out on top of the 7, but almost certainly 2nd to Cancellara.

I've done some basic (and obviously flawed) calculations by multiplying the Monaco time gaps off Contador by 2.5 (essentially going from a 10 mile TT to a 25). The GC would then look like this: Contador, Andy, Armstrong, Kloden, Wiggins, Nibali, Franck (with just 6 seconds between Armstrong and Wiggins).

The problem is that with Armstrong effectively unproven at the longer Tour TTs for a few years, we don't know how he will fare. On the other hand, Kloden is a strong time triallist who finished 3rd on St13 in the 2007 tour...ahead of Wiggins.

In reality I think it is far too close to call for 2nd, 3rd and 4th at the end of tomorrow. To use a Liggett-ism, you'll be able to throw a blanket over Armstrong, Kloden and Wiggins. My guess is that whatever happens, Wiggins will be at least a minute up on the Schlecks...we'll have to wait until Ventoux to see if that is enough.


----------



## onthe_road (23 Jul 2009)

I think Wiggins is gonna take everyone to the cleaners tomorrow.


----------



## Aperitif (23 Jul 2009)

Nice calculations Will - I just hope that there is some form of 'internet energy forum transfer osmosis conductor mechanism' that gets all our goodwill and oxygen into Wiggins' lungs later today!
Good luck to everyone - may the best man win.


----------



## NickM (23 Jul 2009)

Pottsy said:


> IT'll be interesting to see how tired Wiggins will be after today (and the last 3 weeks) and how that might affect his TT tomorrow.


His performance at the end-of-the-Giro TT tends to indicate that his powers of recovery are as good as anybody else's 

Go Bradley Wiggo!


----------

