# My folding e-shopper



## voyager (11 Oct 2014)

A few months ago my father in law gave me his old shopper bike ,"I know you will be able to do something with it that's why l wanted you to have it " he grinned .

with 3 speed , rusty wheels and some rust on the handlebars and stem it was not going to be an easy task .


Mountain bike Saddle ,handlebars and stem put the riding position in a half decent position and a pair of kids mountain bike wheels and 5 speed derailleur helps to send the man power to the rear wheel, the old cable brakes would have to stay for the moment whilst I source a pair of BMX ones .During this time Dave's thread on the overclockers dream came up and l grabbed one of the motors . Fitted with a 500 watt controller a"pedal less " sensor ( the hardest thing to fit on this type of bottom bracket assembly ) and twist grip throttle with the 36v SLA batteries in the shopping bag the bike doesn't look much different to any other folder.







This weekend all the bits were here so we finished off the bike .
Performance wise its a cracker with a top speed over 20mph and with a smile and a wave you really upset some of the hardened types on their MTB's as you pass them on an old shopper bike

Out on the road the motor that was originally designed for 700c wheels and 25v really goes well , the extra torque gained as the wheels are only 20" can get the front wheel spinning in the wet , This is a little wolf in sheep's clothing and needs to be treated with a little respect .


I can see we will have lots of fun with this one and when my charger arrives l will fit a Lifepo4 battery to extend the range .

regards emma


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## Cycleops (11 Oct 2014)

Sorry, can't access the pic. Shame, it sounds interesting. Well done on the conversion. Is 20mph legal?


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## voyager (11 Oct 2014)

Photo link sorted 

no but the output can be reduced to the legal 16.5mph ( 15 +/- 10% ) by a link 

regards emma


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## Cycleops (11 Oct 2014)

Thanks, looks lovely!


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## voyager (12 Oct 2014)

Hi Folks 
we spent the rest of the weekend between the raindrops doing short local runs up to the top of the road and back just to get accustom to the new beast .
With all that power on the front wheel , manhole covers and drains are worthy of being avoided at all costs putting the power on on a wet drain cover and the bike does try to slip away , Pulling power is good and acceleration is very quick the pedelec system comes in after 3 complete revolutions and the surge of power is good , riding without pedalling on the flat and slight inclines is smooth and quiet being FWD the bike does try and straighten up on you doing a U turn , not sinister but gives the feeling of under steer . 
All in alI I think this is going to be a winner ! only problem is the weight  with 3 12v 7.2 ah batteries in the saddlebag the all up weight is 58 lbs , not excessive but a lump to carry if you live in a flat and have to carry it upstairs 

regards emma


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## StuartG (26 Oct 2014)

Sounds wonderful ... but with the battery in the bag - what happened to the shopping?


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## voyager (26 Oct 2014)

Tesco's or lceland deliver that , enough room for e bottle of wine and a sandwich.
( hope to fit a lifepo4 flat battery later)

Regards Emma


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## voyager (23 Dec 2014)

Hi Folks 

Finally fitted the 37v 10ah LifePO4 battery and ( resprayed black ) mudguards to the shopper , Testing at the weekend revealed that the range should be in excess of 15 miles , Over a run of hilly terrain of 10 miles the motor preformed faultlessly with a top speed of 19 mph and hill climbing performance better than the q100 motor on my trike , ken is going to use the bike as a commute to work bike in January and I hope to report on the bike as a mamil eating commuter bike . The only down side to the bike is the top gear of only 68" The bottom gears from 35 " up to 54" were not used at all during the testing 
After the 10 mile run it took less than 2 hours to recharge the battery at its rated charge of 2.5 amps so I estimate the range "IN Excess of " 15 miles .

regards emma


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## shouldbeinbed (23 Dec 2014)

Nice work


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## coffeejo (23 Dec 2014)

voyager said:


> Photo link sorted
> 
> no but the output can be reduced to the legal 16.5mph ( 15 +/- 10% ) by a link
> 
> regards emma


I don't know anything about electric bikes and their speeds etc, but why is it a good thing that you've produced and use something illegal?


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## further (23 Dec 2014)

coffeejo said:


> I don't know anything about electric bikes and their speeds etc, but why is it a good thing that you've produced and use something illegal?


Your avatar suits you sir


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## welsh dragon (23 Dec 2014)

voyager said:


> A few months ago my father in law gave me his old shopper bike ,"I know you will be able to do something with it that's why l wanted you to have it " he grinned .
> 
> with 3 speed , rusty wheels and some rust on the handlebars and stem it was not going to be an easy task .
> 
> ...




Nice bike. Well done.


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## T4tomo (23 Dec 2014)

coffeejo said:


> I don't know anything about electric bikes and their speeds etc, but why is it a good thing that you've produced and use something illegal?


Oh dear what a saddo. 

Presumably the new batteries make it all a bit lighter, which can only be a good things if the batteries run out before you're home.


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## coffeejo (23 Dec 2014)

further said:


> Your avatar suits you sir





T4tomo said:


> Oh dear what a saddo.
> 
> Presumably the new batteries make it all a bit lighter, which can only be a good things if the batteries run out before you're home.


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## voyager (23 Dec 2014)

coffeejo said:


> I don't know anything about electric bikes and their speeds etc, but why is it a good thing that you've produced and use something illegal?



*If rephrased That makes a worth while question to an outsider looking into the electric bike world for the first time *.
how ever the way it reads on "paper" does not !!!!!!
*I will try and answer your question as simply as possible to enlighten you *.
Not all Electric motors are created equal and some are more equal than others , the same applies to batteries but and here is the real nitty gritty part !
The electric motor/battery combination of MOST mass produced e-bikes will give a top speed in excess of the 15mph +/_ 10 % that is just part of the EAPC regulation , *virtually ALL* these bikes are limited either by software or by a discrete component regulator in the controller whether a brushed or brushless motor .* Most mass produced e-bikes de-restricted are geared for 18mph *+
The way I have built the bike means that the top speed can be left de restricted for off road use where 15mph limit imposed by the EAPC does not apply also this shows that my chosen motor / controller/ battery combination is a sensible combination that "works " as there is not a huge variation between limited and unlimited speeds .
The EAPC regulations has change slightly from maximum power of 250 watt to 250 continuously rated , this has produced some more powerful ebikes that are LEGAL in the UK and are restricted by software in the UK and in the EU . Other countries have different laws and different speed limits and the e-bike with a change in controller software can be made legal without the need to design or fit different parts for different countries .

The lighter batteries help as you say, the bike is lighter to pedal up hill . The battery is about 1/4 of the height of the SLA batteries and the same saving in weight ( lots more room in the bag ! )
An advantage with this particular motor is it has a built in freewheel which means that when under pedal power the motor is not being driven and all the pedal power is laid down on the road rather than to turn a " Generator "
And carrying a 60lb bike to a 1st floor flat every day will either help the exercise or put someone off riding it 

A 15 to nearer 20mile range on the e-bike which is going to be used as a commuter bike in cold and windy weather should help get him home quicker and more comfortably than forcing a bike along into the prevailing wind along a cycle path a few hundred feet away from the beach that fronts part of the English channel !!!

now I need a cup of tea 

regards emma


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## coffeejo (23 Dec 2014)

Thanks for answering my question.


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## voyager (23 Dec 2014)

coffeejo said:


> Thanks for answering my question.



your welcome !!!!

regards emma


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## voyager (27 Jan 2015)

Hi Folks 

The folding e-shopper has been in daily use for the past month by Ken commuting yo work with a round trip of 11 miles .
The new 37v 10ah Lifepo4 battery gives a range of over 18 miles between charges . Although it has proved successful it has one flaw the calliper brakes are not good enough to stop it quickly from 15mph plus . , After a little thought I came up with an idea to fit a modified vee brake on the front . I cut the bridge from a set of suspension forks and reinforced the back and after shaping the bridge and applying a couple of coats of matt black paint it was ready to fit . a quick ride around the block tonight show a huge improvement in braking over the original brake.

here is the modified vee brake we fitted









regards emma


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## voyager (24 Feb 2015)

Hi Folks 

It's two months now that Ken has been using the e-shopper to commute to work 
We have changed the tyres to some puncture proof ones and filled the tubes with slime ,as a precaution .

the other modification we have now carried out is the vee brakes on the front and rear , This modification works well and has improved the braking .
I would recommend this to anyone who wants to electrify an early bike with standard caliper brakes . 

One of the rear rack bolts did work loose and we replaced them with new bolts and nyloc nuts just to be on the safe side .

regards emma.


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## voyager (13 Apr 2015)

15 weeks into the year and the bike has done about 1000 miles ( 15 x60 ) work commute miles alone . Ken says "The bike is running well" but we have had a couple of niggles , The throttle ( twist grip ) started to misbehave last week and has been replaced and the ignition switch doesn't work in one direction .
The rear bags zipper has starting to play up as well .
The bike is quite responsive and the e-assist helps battle against the south westerly winds on his way home. 

All in all, the project seems to be a success and the range is still " in excess of 20 miles per charge" as he has not needed to pedal it home due to a flat battery .

regards emma


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## Bodhbh (13 Apr 2015)

Looks great !


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## voyager (21 Apr 2015)

After a thousand or so miles another little opportunity has shown up as a folding pedal pedal bearings has worn out . 

We have replaced them with standard MTB pedals , so far so good 1000 miles at 25mpg on the car represents over £250 in fuel ,so it has now paid for itself . 

regards emma


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## steveindenmark (21 Apr 2015)

coffeejo said:


> I don't know anything about electric bikes and their speeds etc, but why is it a good thing that you've produced and use something illegal?


 

What a miserable so and so you are sir. 

I like the bike but he distance you are getting on a charge is rubbish. In fact I would go as far as to say that it is not worth the bother. I had a Tonaro Enduro and could get 30 miles out of it without any problem.

If thats all i was getting per charge I would not have gone through the expense.

If you can improve on the distance it is an excellent project.


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## voyager (21 Apr 2015)

Hi Steve 

22 miles in one charge still *with battery left* , is good considering the motor/ battery combination .

So we have not gone far enough to test the range of the battery , 2 trips to work and return in one day has been the furthest traveled between charges .

This started out as a mamil beater ( which it does happily ) the motor came from Chain reaction and originally was a 24v motor designed for 700c wheels and its now running at 37v ( over run ) with a 300w controller in a 20" wheel  . It has lots more low speed torque than a .normal e-bike , this has proved invaluable battling into the prevailing wind for 5 miles on the way home . an unusual bike choice for a commuter that does not attract the usual attention of tea leafs .it has the usual legal / off road connector on the controller and gives good performance in an off road situation .

Originally as a project to teach Ken the "ins and outs of e-bikes " rather than the out and out mile eating range of shop purchased Bikes that cost 3 or 4 times the £200 it cost to put together with everything added up .

As I have said in the past "What price experience " 

£ for £ as a learning curve in building a e-bike from scratch it has provided a wealth of experience that most run of the mill "cyclists" will never get 
coupled with the skills needed to maintain / build a e-bike from scratch and the chance to modify - tune and play with the system on a working bike to see how various parts can interact and be sourced for the project . 

regards emma


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## voyager (21 Dec 2015)

Hi Folks 
Ken has been using the e-shopper now for a year as his daily commute to work bike 
This year it has done just under 3000 MILES but it has eaten 1 pair of folding pedals ( replaced with MTB pedals ) 2 Throttles , one pair of tyres ( they were second hand ) and the rack cracked with the weight of the batery and the rack mount part of the frame cracked and I rewelded it .
so .
at fuel at 25 mpg ( vintage volvo ) , Not only has it paid for itself it has kept Ken going in windy weather on his 5mile each way commute along the exposed cycle path beside the English channel, the additional weight helping stabilize the bike .

So general consensus is a success - remember this was a 30 odd year old shopper that was reborn and it still eats a few unsuspecting mamils on the way. 
  ....................................... happy Chrimbo  one each 

regards emma


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## 12boy (21 Dec 2015)

pardon my ignorance but I must wonder what a mamil might be? And Emma, I am so impressed by your skills in making, fixing and altering bikes, especially after reading how you build tadpoles.


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## welsh dragon (21 Dec 2015)

12boy said:


> pardon my ignorance but I must wonder what a mamil might be? And Emma, I am so impressed by your skills in making, fixing and altering bikes, especially after reading how you build tadpoles.




Mamil stands for "middle aged man in lycra"


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## welsh dragon (21 Dec 2015)

voyager said:


> Hi Folks
> Ken has been using the e-shopper now for a year as his daily commute to work bike
> This year it has done just under 3000 MILES but it has eaten 1 pair of folding pedals ( replaced with MTB pedals ) 2 Throttles , one pair of tyres ( they were second hand ) and the rack cracked with the weight of the batery and the rack mount part of the frame cracked and I rewelded it .
> so .
> ...




Many thanks for keeping us up to date with how things are going. I like reading about the progress made. Thank you.


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## voyager (21 Dec 2015)

12boy said:


> pardon my ignorance but I must wonder what a mamil might be? And Emma, I am so impressed by your skills in making, fixing and altering bikes, especially after reading how you build tadpoles.





welsh dragon said:


> Mamil stands for "middle aged man in lycra"



Thank you Guys , 
One mamil caught Ken up a couple of weeks ago huffing and a puffing took him a couple of miles , his first thought ken was super fit , before seeing the front hub motor then called him a cheat 
Got to do something in retirement or I would vegetate 

regards emma


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## voyager (21 Dec 2015)

Your welcome - have a couple of mini thread features in the pipeline 
need to wait and see 

regards emma


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## Phil Fouracre (24 Nov 2016)

Emma - Hi, just found found your link that someone posted on my 'justification for lecci bike' thread. Just realised that its an old thread, maybe not monitored any more! 
Wish I'd seen it earlier. I've fitted four conversion kits, involving various 'modifications', but not to the extent that yours did.
Yours sound like great fun, and as you say, a great way to learn about them.


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## voyager (24 Nov 2016)

Hi Phil

These were just 2 of our conversions , I have used a 500w golden pie on a tadpole trike as well before settling on a xiongda 2 speed setup on one of my trikes and 3 q100 motors on the others , I have done about 4 e-bike conversions and half a dozen tadpole trike conversions .
The q100 motors are the most versatile motors and are quite forgiving when it comes to over-clocking them .

Ken is still using the e-shopper after 2 years of use and it is still going , with 4000 plus miles on the battery ( a second hand 37v LifePo4 ) and motor ( £35 delivered from chain reaction ) a 24v 700c motor running at 37v in a 20" wheel .

So in the last 2 years it is on its 3 or 4th throttle ( now we keep a plastic bag taped over the throttle as it stops the ingress of water when parked outside in the cycle racks at work )
Iit has eaten one set of folding pedals that were replaced by MTB ones and last week it ate its first chain ( it was still usable without pedaling for the journey home on e-power )
Apart from that the rear wheel collapsed last year ( a light weight rim split ) and was replaced by a heavier BMX one redished for the 5 speed freewheel .
More seriously the frame where the rear brake plate is fitted ripped away and I mig-ed it back together and the rack decided to break on the way home on night - the weight of the battery was the cause . It has eaten 2 pairs of cheap tyres before changing over to marathon tyre with slimed tubes .

It has been an exciting and educational project for Ken as it has taught him a lot about the marriage of available parts / maintenance of e-bikes over the past 2 years and how to repair them .* WHAT PRICE EXPERIENCE *they say .

here are our tadpoles with q100 motors
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/building-a-couple-of-20-wheel-tadpole-e-trike-from-scratch.166210/


Sadly Dennis my father in law passed away (86 ) last month and had only seen the photos of the finished e-bike but was pleased that the 30year old halfords ( made in Poland ) Apollo had a face lift and was still in service .

regards emma


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## Phil Fouracre (25 Nov 2016)

Thanks for reply. Had a look at link, impressive. Looks like your conversions are 'slightly more complicated' than anything I've done:-)


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## voyager (25 Nov 2016)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Thanks for reply. Had a look at link, impressive. Looks like your conversions are 'slightly more complicated' than anything I've done:-)



3 years ago there were not many e-bike experts to help much , so I took to finding out more , my projects helped me gain experience to build and repair .
The are still a few more projects in the pipeline I may share them later but now I have a lot of DIY home improvements to make including upgrades to my off grid solar system I have installed at home ( currently it provides the lighting for bungalow ) and want to extend it to the workshops as well . 
The other is a pine doored wardrobe and I need to hone up my carpentry skills before I tackle that .

regards emma


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