# Any Sparkies - Wiring question...



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

I've got to change a socket in the house, I'm happy doing it.... done it loads of times (not sure if you are meant to DIY electrics... but I work in a shop that sells them and we sell loads) Question is I've had the socket off and the wires are crazy short. can I join the 2 ends of ring main cables with a hefty screw connector block to a short piece of ring main cable 2 lives to a short piece of live and 2 neutrals to a short piece of neutral. see diagrams for general gist..... 

I think I can... but thought I'd ask on a cycling forum! (joking apart we have a wealth of knowledge amongst ourselves)


----------



## classic33 (2 Jul 2020)

Where do the blocks go when the faceplate is back on the box though.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

classic33 said:


> Where do the blocks go when the faceplate is back on the box though.


Its in a deep patress box so should be room for them to sit in there.


----------



## classic33 (2 Jul 2020)

You could, but you're introducing another weak point/connection. I wouldn't do it.

Where's the earth wire?


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (2 Jul 2020)

I've done that sort of thing. I've also come across that sort of thing, presumably done by those with certificates. As long as everything is fused (MCB'd seems a clumsy word) at the consumer unit correctly then you are good to go (ie for the smallest wire in your circuit). But I don't hold a certificate.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

classic33 said:


> You could, but you're introducing another weak point/connection. I wouldn't do it.
> 
> Where's the earth wire?


Sorry the earths are there with plenty of cable just forgot to add them to dodgy sketch! 

I'm only thinking of doing it as its under a cupboard and a nightmare to get over to look properly if wires were an inch or 2 longer it would help considerably


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> I've done that sort of thing. I've also come across that sort of thing, presumably done by those with certificates. As long as everything is fused (MCB'd seems a clumsy word) at the consumer unit correctly then you are good to go (ie for the smallest wire in your circuit). But I don't hold a certificate.


Thanks for input I'll get a bit of cable and if I tear out too much hair trying not to use it, I'll use it.... What could possibly go wrong


----------



## MrGrumpy (2 Jul 2020)

well what's the other option ? Running a whole new ring in ?? Me I would join them but I would make sure they are electrically sound and mechanically protected .
Just make sure you connect them up properly i.e don't pinch the insulation etc of the cables . If you can remove the back box see if there is room to fit a junction box behind and then bring your cables through. Main point you don't want to catch the joins your making when refitting the faceplate .


----------



## cosmicbike (2 Jul 2020)

Its fine, you are placing joint in an accessible location so no issue with the Regs. Maintain the same CSA on your small extension cables, it's likey they are 2.5mm so stay the same.

Poor practice though, if it were me I'd be looking to pull additional through where possible, or even jointing under the floor using maintenance free joints (WAGO in a suitable box, secured to a joist meets the requirement). Just my opinion, as someone who holds a certificate.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> well what's the other option ? Running a whole new ring in ?? Me I would join them but I would make sure they are electrically sound and mechanically protected .


To be honest I think house could do with a rewire... But I'm not going there!... It can be done without what I'm thinking.... just looking at the wires I know I'm going to struggle as I could only get it about an inch away from the wall when I unscrewed it


----------



## MrGrumpy (2 Jul 2020)

I've joined cables before due to being short or moving/extending a socket. Just make sure it's electrically sound and mechanical sound !


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

cosmicbike said:


> Its fine, you are placing joint in an accessible location so no issue with the Regs. Maintain the same CSA on your small extension cables, it's likey they are 2.5mm so stay the same.
> 
> Poor practice though, if it were me I'd be looking to pull additional through where possible, or even jointing under the floor using maintenance free joints (WAGO in a suitable box, secured to a joist meets the requirement). Just my opinion, as someone who holds a certificate.


Tried pulling cable no give at all, and not up to running new cable ( and assume I'm deffo not meant to do that...) Thanks for your advice.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (2 Jul 2020)

It used to be standard to use connector boxes (circular jobbies a few inches in diameter) in lighting circuits as well as ring mains so as long as your terminal connectors are hefty enough.



This is a 30 A one from Screwfix

Also - here's a bit of "chocolate block" connector in it's own box. 





Here's the sort of thing you want to do





So I thinks you is good to go.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

Thanks for everyone's advice... I think I'l


twentysix by twentyfive said:


> It used to be standard to use connector boxes (circular jobbies a few inches in diameter) in lighting circuits as well as ring mains so as long as your terminal connectors are hefty enough.
> View attachment 533807
> This is a 30 A one from Screwfix
> 
> ...


No room for them... was thinking single hefty chocolate blocks.


----------



## twentysix by twentyfive (2 Jul 2020)

simon the viking said:


> Thanks for everyone's advice... I think I'l
> 
> No room for them... was thinking single hefty chocolate blocks.


Yep - the boxes are extra I think but I thought illustrated the main point. Just the hefty choc block and good mechanicals is OK I think.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

Thanks for all the replies... General consensus seems to be yes i can, but don't if I can avoid it... Not sure I can avoid it !


----------



## slowmotion (2 Jul 2020)

WAGO 221 connectors are a lot more compact than circular terminal boxes or screw down connector blocks. I've used them in existing back boxes in my own house.


----------



## simon the viking (2 Jul 2020)

slowmotion said:


> WAGO 221 connectors are a lot more compact than circular terminal boxes or screw down connector blocks. I've used them in existing back boxes in my own house.
> View attachment 533829


thanks for the reply...very neat looking.... but i cant buy/scrounge them from work!


----------



## slowmotion (2 Jul 2020)

simon the viking said:


> thanks for the reply...very neat looking.... but i cant buy/scrounge them from work!


….but if you send me your address by PM, you can scrounge three of them from me......


----------



## irw (3 Jul 2020)

simon the viking said:


> thanks for the reply...very neat looking.... but i cant buy/scrounge them from work!


+1 to what @slowmotion says. Wagos are pretty much the de-facto standard for this sort of thing now. The 221’s are rated to 32 Amps, so will most likely be well within spec for your socket circuit, but it would be prudent to just check what the MCB of the circuit is rated to.


----------



## sleuthey (3 Jul 2020)

MrGrumpy said:


> well what's the other option ? Running a whole new ring in ??


 Or he could just move the socket by 2”. 



MrGrumpy said:


> If you can remove the back box see if there is room to fit a junction box behind and then bring your cables through.


 Good advice , or fit a wall mounted junction box upstream of the socket as pointed out by @twentysix by twentyfive


----------



## simon the viking (6 Jul 2020)

job done with the help some nifty wago 221 connectors kindly supplied by @slowmotion ... had to send Mrs V out for a walk with Teen-V.... as I dont think he could have survived the 30 minutes the power was off....


----------



## slowmotion (7 Jul 2020)

^^^^^ Excellent!


----------

