# Now the anti-cyclist are lobbying god to help them in their cause.



## Yellow Saddle (6 Oct 2017)

“_There is much to pray about for the world,” says a parish newsletter from the Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church in Chiswick, West London, “and the 10.30am daily public recitation of the Rosary in church will also be praying for success in turning the plans for CS9 away from the High Road and the church.”_

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/lo...sessions-opposing-a-cycle-superhighway/021964

There's only one way to beat them. We pray harder.


----------



## AndyRM (6 Oct 2017)




----------



## classic33 (6 Oct 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> “_There is much to pray about for the world,” says a parish newsletter from the Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church in Chiswick, West London, “and the 10.30am daily public recitation of the Rosary in church will also be praying for success in turning the plans for CS9 away from the High Road and the church.”_
> 
> http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/lo...sessions-opposing-a-cycle-superhighway/021964
> 
> There's only one way to beat them. We pray harder.


Didn't work on the HS2 route.


----------



## Yellow Saddle (6 Oct 2017)

AndyRM said:


> View attachment 377237


Is that a 26-er ass?


----------



## NorthernDave (6 Oct 2017)

The path of the righteous cyclist is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil non-cyclists. 
Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my cycling brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

As Samuel L Jackson might have said...


----------



## roadrash (6 Oct 2017)

if anyone is being shepherded through the valley of darkness,......... I hope they use lights


----------



## Drago (6 Oct 2017)

They of all people should remember that Jesus was a cyclist. After all, did it not say in the Bible, "And Lo! The Lord Jesus rode off on his Triumph"?


----------



## NorthernDave (6 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> They of all people should remember that Jesus was a cyclist. After all, did it not say in the Bible, "And Lo! The Lord Jesus rode off on his Triumph"?



Presumably it was a cross bike?


----------



## Threevok (6 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> They of all people should remember that Jesus was a cyclist. After all, did it not say in the Bible, "And Lo! The Lord Jesus rode off on his Triumph"?



I though that was Moses and I thought it was a sports car


----------



## petek (6 Oct 2017)




----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2017)

Shakespear liked cycling.

To bike, or not to bike, that is not a question...


----------



## NorthernDave (6 Oct 2017)

YukonBoy said:


> Shakespear liked cycling.
> 
> To bike, or not to bike, that is not a question...



Shakespeare also sold cheap camping equipment off season:

"Now is the winter of our discount tents"


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2017)

...do you look for ale and cakes here, you rude rascals? _Henry VIII Act V, Scene 4_


----------



## DCLane (6 Oct 2017)

Surely this offers opportunities, not problems? Open air services, cyclist-friendly options, stop off on the commute for morning/evening communion on a turbo trainer? 

As a churchgoer I'd suggest they are a little blinkered.


----------



## petek (6 Oct 2017)

"It's all set up for you Your Holiness bring it back in a month and we'll fettle the cables. Here's your receipt."


----------



## Pro Tour Punditry (6 Oct 2017)

Vigilante vicar decks cyclist "Take that you lentil knitting tosser"


----------



## Markymark (6 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> They of all people should remember that Jesus was a cyclist. After all, did it not say in the Bible, "And Lo! The Lord Jesus rode off on his Triumph"?


No no no.

As we all know in the famous hymn...

Jesus Christ Superstar, Came down from heaven in a *Yamaha*. Did a skid, killed a kid. Knocked off his balls on a dustbin lid.


----------



## AndyRM (6 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4987019, member: 259"]Totally OT, but how does his hat stay on?[/QUOTE]

The power of Christ compels it.


----------



## jefmcg (6 Oct 2017)

petek said:


> View attachment 377249
> "It's all set up for you Your Holiness bring it back in a month and we'll fettle the cables. Here's your receipt."


I see your pope, and raise you a saint


----------



## Yellow Saddle (6 Oct 2017)

[QUOTE 4987019, member: 259"]Totally OT, but how does his hat stay on?[/QUOTE]
It is made from silicone. You wet the cranium a bit, squeeze it on, smooth it over and voila!


----------



## Julia9054 (6 Oct 2017)

Can you get cycle clips for the cassocky thing?


----------



## roadrash (6 Oct 2017)

probably uses one of these..


----------



## classic33 (6 Oct 2017)

The 13th October is the annual feast day for Madonna del Ghisallo, who is the Catholic Church’s official patron of bicycle riders of all types (professional road cyclists, commuters, bike messengers, amateur track racers, road enthusiats, recumbents… any way you “velo” Our Lady of Ghisallo protects you).


----------



## Drago (6 Oct 2017)

Perhaps we should take their God, and raise them one Boris Johnson?


----------



## classic33 (6 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> Perhaps we should take their God, and raise them one Boris Johnson?


He just thinks he's one.


----------



## mjr (6 Oct 2017)

DCLane said:


> Surely this offers opportunities, not problems? Open air services, cyclist-friendly options, stop off on the commute for morning/evening communion on a turbo trainer?
> 
> As a churchgoer I'd suggest they are a little blinkered.


Isn't that pretty much a requirement for Catholicism since all the scandals?


----------



## pplpilot (6 Oct 2017)

It's all hypothetical because, and brace for this as it may come as a bit of a shock.... There is no God.


----------



## ianrauk (6 Oct 2017)

pplpilot said:


> It's all hypothetical because, and brace for this as it may come as a bit of a shock.... There is no God.




You're be telling us the earth isn't flat next.


----------



## classic33 (6 Oct 2017)

ianrauk said:


> You're be telling us the earth isn't flat next.


If it were flat they'd be no hill climbing!


----------



## FishFright (6 Oct 2017)

Hey guys, don't worry about it , we got this ...


----------



## pplpilot (6 Oct 2017)

ianrauk said:


> You're be telling us the earth isn't flat next.



It isn't. It's dodecahedron...


----------



## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2017)

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.


----------



## Cuchilo (6 Oct 2017)

I know the area very well but cant see what church they are talking about . What ever church it is , there is very little foot traffic outside them .
Personally i think they should put the cycle path in the road and make the area even more congested with cars . Maybe then people would walk to the shop or to school .


----------



## roadrash (6 Oct 2017)

pplpilot said:


> It's all hypothetical because, and brace for this as it may come as a bit of a shock.... There is no God.



does an insomniac dyslexic agnostic, lay awake at night wondering if their is a dog


----------



## wheresthetorch (6 Oct 2017)

roadrash said:


> does an insomniac dyslexic agnostic, lay awake at night wondering if *their* is a dog



I see what you did there.


----------



## jefmcg (6 Oct 2017)

Cuchilo said:


> I know the area very well but cant see what church they are talking about .


It's this one. I can see their reasons for being against it on a personal level. Almost all churches use the land around the entrance; to gather and chat after mass, for bridal parties to assemble themselves, for pall bearers to carry a coffin etc. And this church fills the entire block so they have no other outside area except the public footway. 

That doesn't justify them invoking "god" to take sides.



DCLane said:


> Surely this offers opportunities, not problems? Open air services,


Lol, check the link above, they'll have to be on the roof if they lose their pavement.


----------



## Bazzer (6 Oct 2017)

Isn't the problem not with cyclists, but with TfL? 
From the link in the OP, it is the wide pavement which will offered up as sacrifice to the Cycle Superhighway. Does the road part of Chiswick HIgh Road have some sort of exemption?


----------



## mustang1 (6 Oct 2017)

I have upped my praying regimen and have also joined several other faiths in my quest to oppose the so-called... Hold on, what's this about again? Ok whatever, I will pray for whoever pays highest.


----------



## Alan Frame (6 Oct 2017)

Yellow Saddle said:


> “_There is much to pray about for the world,” says a parish newsletter from the Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church in Chiswick, West London, “and the 10.30am daily public recitation of the Rosary in church will also be praying for success in turning the plans for CS9 away from the High Road and the church.”_
> 
> http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/lo...sessions-opposing-a-cycle-superhighway/021964
> 
> There's only one way to beat them. We pray harder.



Or maybe, in true Christian fashion, we just turn the other cheek?


----------



## Jenkins (7 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> It's this one. I can see their reasons for being against it on a personal level. Almost all churches use the land around the entrance; to gather and chat after mass, for bridal parties to assemble themselves, for pall bearers to carry a coffin etc. And this church fills the entire block so they have no other outside area except the public footway.


So they don't want the pavement being a cycle route, but there's no problem with it being a car park (based on the image in the link)


----------



## mjr (7 Oct 2017)

Bazzer said:


> Isn't the problem not with cyclists, but with TfL?
> From the link in the OP, it is the wide pavement which will offered up as sacrifice to the Cycle Superhighway. Does the road part of Chiswick HIgh Road have some sort of exemption?


Detailed plans at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/d11f0415/ - basically a third of the width of the cycleway outside the church is from removing the traffic island in the middle of the road, another third is currently the buffer space around the fence which fails to stop people driving onto that pavement and yes, the remaining third is narrowing the footway. The church's neighbours to the west have it worse because all the cycleway is coming from the footway there and they don't even get new parking spaces like the church is.

East of there, Chiswick High Road seems to have the cycleway taken from the carriageway.


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

jefmcg said:


> It's this one.



Appears to be a very congested route. Looking at the link - does this mean that the trees will have to be removed as well?


----------



## KnackeredBike (7 Oct 2017)

Jenkins said:


> So they don't want the pavement being a cycle route, but there's no problem with it being a car park (based on the image in the link)


From my understanding they are almost saying the exact opposite, that they don't want to lose space from the pavement. The issue is TfL going for the easy answer of nicking some pavement rather than reducing the road.

As for people parking on wide pavements/verges that is a universal unpleasant phenomenon unfortunately.

The church have been rather tactless but they do have a point that funerals and almost all weddings will have vehicles parked outside and there should be some sensible way to accommodate them without getting in the way of cyclists. I'm sure a pragmatic solution can be found, after all they unusually have a lot of space to play with. Perhaps removable street furniture like benches which can be used to park one hearse or car during events.


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

They will definitely need to block the bike lane after it is built to accommodate the hearse for funerals


----------



## classic33 (7 Oct 2017)

Cronorider said:


> They will definitely need to block the bike lane after it is built to accommodate the hearse for funerals


Who in their right mind, would object to that?


----------



## nickyboy (7 Oct 2017)

Cronorider said:


> They will definitely need to block the bike lane after it is built to accommodate the hearse for funerals



Exactly, and that's the pragmatic solution. Presumably hearses and wedding cars pull up outside the church at the moment despite their being some parking and unloading restrictions.

So they continue to do this, they just park in the cycle lane. Then someone from the Church acts as marshal (if necessary) so cyclists go around the cars. One would hope that, at the point the coffin is taken out of the hearse a cyclists would stop in any case (in the same way a pedestrian presumably would on the pavement)


----------



## Drago (7 Oct 2017)

They don't need parking. The Lord will provide.


----------



## nickyboy (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> The church building occupies the whole of its land, necessitating their outsourcing of parking space onto public land. Perhaps, if parking is that important to the church, they could demolish and rebuild allocating space for cars on their land.



Yeah they could. Or maybe a bit of give and take from all stakeholders in this might be the best approach?


----------



## Saluki (7 Oct 2017)

Drago said:


> They of all people should remember that Jesus was a cyclist. After all, did it not say in the Bible, "And Lo! The Lord Jesus rode off on his Triumph"?


I think that was Moses. The roar of his triumph is heard in the hills. Exodus somewhere or other.
I believe that Joshua had a roaring Triumph too. Not Jesus though. I think that the Apostles had an Accord IIRC.


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Who in their right mind, would object to that?



I'm not objecting - just saying


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> The church building occupies the whole of its land, necessitating their outsourcing of parking space onto public land. Perhaps, if parking is that important to the church, they could demolish and rebuild allocating space for cars on their land.



If you think this is merely a parking issue you do not have a very good understanding of the situation. It's about having a space to properly conclude special occasions like weddings and funerals


----------



## nickyboy (7 Oct 2017)

Cronorider said:


> If you think this is merely a parking issue you do not have a very good understanding of the situation. It's about having a space to properly conclude special occasions like weddings and funerals



This is what I mean by a bit of give and take by all stakeholders. The Church has been using the public space outside its building, no doubt for years, to conclude things like weddings and funerals. 

But the space is publicly owned and the Church can't expect to have final say over how it's used. They seem to have got a reasonable compromise with what appears to be space to park the hearses and wedding cars and still conduct the informal bits of ceremonies outside the building

Sure, not as much room as before. But it looks like enough, and it wasn't theirs in the first place


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

nickyboy said:


> This is what I mean by a bit of give and take by all stakeholders. The Church has been using the public space outside its building, no doubt for years, to conclude things like weddings and funerals.
> 
> But the space is publicly owned and the Church can't expect to have final say over how it's used. They seem to have got a reasonable compromise with what appears to be space to park the hearses and wedding cars and still conduct the informal bits of ceremonies outside the building
> 
> Sure, not as much room as before. But it looks like enough, and it wasn't theirs in the first place



Sure - just pointing out that it's not about parking, it's about ceremony. They will have to block the bike lane, perhaps get the appropriate permits to do so etc.


----------



## classic33 (7 Oct 2017)

nickyboy said:


> This is what I mean by a bit of give and take by all stakeholders. The Church has been using the public space outside its building, no doubt for years, to conclude things like weddings and funerals.
> 
> But the space is publicly owned and the Church can't expect to have final say over how it's used. They seem to have got a reasonable compromise with what appears to be space to park the hearses and wedding cars and still conduct the informal bits of ceremonies outside the building
> 
> Sure, not as much room as before. But it looks like enough, and it wasn't theirs in the first place





Cronorider said:


> Sure - just pointing out that it's not about parking, it's about ceremony. They will have to block the bike lane, perhaps get the appropriate permits to do so etc.


Said it before, but who'd object to a coffin being taken from either the hearse to the church or the church to the hearse.

It'd be a mean sod that would deny the dead their last journey.


----------



## mjr (7 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> Said it before, but who'd object to a coffin being taken from either the hearse to the church or the church to the hearse.
> 
> It'd be a mean sod that would deny the dead their last journey.


Cool! I'll do the length of both houses of Parliament, Whitehall, the Mall and straight through Buck House, please.

Alternatively, let's say death isn't a good reason to be a dick and block a footway or a cycleway.


----------



## classic33 (7 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Cool! I'll do the length of both houses of Parliament, Whitehall, the Mall and straight through Buck House, please.
> 
> Alternatively, let's say death isn't a good reason to be a dick and block a footway or a cycleway.


That has to be one of the worst posts on this thread.

@Cronorider, now you see what I meant.


----------



## slowmotion (7 Oct 2017)

It's about a mile and a half from here. There's a nice wide pavement....a public space. Why should it be stolen for transport purposes? If TfL decided to stick a single lane road down the pavement, how would the parishioners on here react?


----------



## classic33 (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> What are pavements for?


They should be for foot traffic only. But some want to be able to cycle on them, as adults.Because the "roads are unsafe for cycling".


----------



## slowmotion (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> What are pavements for?


Pedestrians? Actually, round here they are largely populated by stoner teenagers pulling wheelies and rolling spliffs while gabbling into their mobiles. Respect.


----------



## mjr (7 Oct 2017)

slowmotion said:


> It's about a mile and a half from here. There's a nice wide pavement....a public space. Why should it be stolen for transport purposes? If TfL decided to stick a single lane road down the pavement, how would the parishioners on here react?


As I wrote earlier, outside the church it looks like only a third of the width being reallocated to cycleway (a metre max but I've not got the scale ruler out) is usable footway. The rest of the width is a fence and its buffer and a traffic island in the middle of the road at the moment.


----------



## Shaun (7 Oct 2017)

The thread seems to have moved on from the initial jovial posts to more serious discussion about the subject of the OP, so I've moved it out of the Cafe to a more appropriate forum.

Cheers,
Shaun


----------



## slowmotion (7 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> As I wrote earlier, outside the church it looks like only a third of the width being reallocated to cycleway (a metre max but I've not got the scale ruler out) is usable footway. The rest of the width is a fence and its buffer and a traffic island in the middle of the road at the moment.


If I'm going that way tomorrow, I'll take a piccie. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the irony of cyclists defending their right as road users to hem in pedestrians on narrower pavements.


----------



## slowmotion (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> I thought we were talking about pavement parking


I didn't.


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Cool! I'll do the length of both houses of Parliament, Whitehall, the Mall and straight through Buck House, please.
> 
> Alternatively, let's say death isn't a good reason to be a dick and block a footway or a cycleway.



I have carried a coffin. You?


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

User said:


> It is still about using all your own space, and expecting public space to be available to fulfill functions that you haven't left space for.



I think perhaps the church was there long before the road became quite as busy as it is now.


----------



## Cronorider (7 Oct 2017)

classic33 said:


> That has to be one of the worst posts on this thread.
> 
> @Cronorider, now you see what I meant.



Yes. Wow...


----------



## mjr (7 Oct 2017)

slowmotion said:


> If I'm going that way tomorrow, I'll take a piccie. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the irony of cyclists defending their right as road users to hem in pedestrians on narrower pavements.


Not sure what the pic will show that's not on the ones linked above.

I'd rather the remaining third was also taken from the carriageway there but it's only a third not the whole width.

But I'd also say the footway should be a footway and not church event parking. Ticket the daffodils.


----------



## mjr (7 Oct 2017)

Cronorider said:


> I have carried a coffin. You?


My father's coffin was carried a damned sight further than from the proposed parking spaces in Dukes Avenue to that church because the road ended at the churchyard wall, as usual in villages. It didn't even go in the nearest door of the church. Soft southern townies!


----------



## classic33 (8 Oct 2017)

mjr said:


> Not sure what the pic will show that's not on the ones linked above.
> 
> I'd rather the remaining third was also taken from the carriageway there but it's only a third not the whole width.
> 
> But I'd also say the footway should be a footway and not church event parking. Ticket the daffodils.


Nor should it be a cycle lane/way. Can't cycle on the road, get off and push.


----------



## Banjo (8 Oct 2017)

If Christ lived in Britain today would he be more likely to have a Range rover or a Raleigh?


----------



## slowmotion (8 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> If Christ lived in Britain today would he be more likely to have a Range rover or a Raleigh?


I think he would probably be a pedestrian.


----------



## Banjo (8 Oct 2017)

Yeah maybe so but given the choice of the two?


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Perhaps, if parking is that important to the church, they could demolish


No they can't.


----------



## Dan B (8 Oct 2017)

User said:


> What are pavements for?


DPP vs Jones 1999 would be a good place to start


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

Dan B said:


> DPP vs Jones 1999 would be a good place to start


https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/constitutional-law/summary-of-dpp-v-jones-law-essay.php says they were on a grass verge, not a pavement.

Edit: Can't see how it helps
"The majority of the Lords opinions concluded that Dr. Jones and Mr Lloyd did not restrict the public’s high way nor did they constitute trespass if it was a reasonable user of the highway. So with that being the majority view from the judges the conviction was overturned and quashed."


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

Banjo said:


> Yeah maybe so but given the choice of the two?


Are yes, that great question, WWJD: What would Jesus drive?

(seriously, he didn't own an ass, he wouldn't buy a car)


----------



## Dan B (8 Oct 2017)

I'm on a phone and can't easily check but I'm pretty sure that the verge in question was held to be part of the highway - just as the pavement is


----------



## PK99 (8 Oct 2017)

User said:


> Undoubtedly so. I just felt the need to put their position into its proper context.



...your myopian and biased view of the context?


----------



## swansonj (8 Oct 2017)

User said:


> It is still about using all your own space, and expecting public space to be available to fulfill functions that you haven't left space for.


Surely weddings and funerals are not so much private church functions, as collective societal functions, the conduct of which is very much one of the legitimate uses of public space?

(Apology in advance - I've rather lost track of whether we're talking about the church's desire for private parking, or the church's desire still to be able to marshall wedding and funeral parties outside their doors)


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

Lol. I'm outside the church now, to see what sort of crowd gathers on pavement between masses and photographs. Overheard pp* saying they are doing same thing.

Parish priest.


----------



## Yellow Saddle (8 Oct 2017)

mustang1 said:


> I have upped my praying regimen and have also joined several other faiths in my quest to oppose the so-called... Hold on, what's this about again? Ok whatever, I will pray for whoever pays highest.


You were going to pray for a tail-wind, and whilst you have him on the line, also ask for the water in your bottle to be turned into beer.


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

Ok, data. I was there between the 11 and 12.15 masses. 

The pavement is amazingly wide, road with. You can see that from streetview.

On mass days they do not need this much room. They fill the pavement, but only in a narrow corridor just outside the door, if the spread along the front of the church, they would use less than half the width and if that extended to the adjacent presbytery they'd be nearly single file.

They do not seem at all concerned with the convenience and safety of other people, as those walking on the pavement had literally push their way through or do what I did, which was to walk on the road outside the railings.


----------



## si_c (8 Oct 2017)

I'd have some sympathy with the church if they paid taxes, but they don't. Instead they expect to make use of public facilities and complain when their use is changed. 

@nickyboy was correct when he said that stakeholders should be consulted, but to be a stakeholder you have to contribute. Just my 2p.


----------



## jefmcg (8 Oct 2017)

si_c said:


> I'd have some sympathy with the church if they paid taxes, but they don't. Instead they expect to make use of public facilities and complain when their use is changed.
> 
> @nickyboy was correct when he said that stakeholders should be consulted, but to be a stakeholder you have to contribute. Just my 2p.


Their parishioners pay taxes, and I am sure the clergy are speaking on behalf of them.

And I can attest there were a lot of them in evidence today.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Oct 2017)

The new super highway will enable them to cycle to the church. Just as Jesus would have done. Win win for them


----------

