# Range extender



## Biker man (21 Oct 2021)

Does anyone know anything about the Van Moof range extender is it good and will other bike makes produce something similar.


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## Jenkins (21 Oct 2021)

Didn't you read the review in the link I provided on the previous VanMoof thread you started? They are purely and simply an extra battery to extend the range and there are lots of plug in versions already made by other bike manufacturers.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Oct 2021)

Yes it is good at extending threads


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## I like Skol (21 Oct 2021)

What's 2. ?


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## Jenkins (21 Oct 2021)

I like Skol said:


> What's 2. ?


It's the ordered version of

 
Which will appear on the next thread


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## Biker man (22 Oct 2021)

Jenkins said:


> Didn't you read the review in the link I provided on the previous VanMoof thread you started? They are purely and simply an extra battery to extend the range and there are lots of plug in versions already made by other bike manufacturers.


Yes I did read It thanks just wanted people's experiences of them, What other manufactures make them?


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## CXRAndy (22 Oct 2021)

Reisse Muller have certain models with two batteries, so do Frey with their EX MTB.


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## Biker man (22 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Reisse Muller have certain models with two batteries, so do Frey with their EX MTB.


I see dual battery with it saying range extender I thought it was some new charging device .


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## Pale Rider (22 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I see dual battery with it saying range extender I thought it was some new charging device .



A 'range extender' is simply an additional battery.



CXRAndy said:


> Reisse Muller have certain models with two batteries, so do Frey with their EX MTB.



The Bosch dual battery system, as used by Riese and Muller, is quite clever.

The charger charges each battery a little at a time, and the bike uses each battery a little at time.

Switching between the two is seamless.

Needless to say, the display reads the total amount of charge remaining, leaving the rider to simply ride the bike.

However, ultimately the bike is just an ebike with two batteries.


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## fossyant (22 Oct 2021)

I thought the range extender was your legs.


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## Biker man (22 Oct 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> A 'range extender' is simply an additional battery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you charge them up separately or can both be charged up together?


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## CXRAndy (22 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> How do you charge them up separately or can both be charged up together?



If you remove them from the bike, you have to charge separately. On the bike the connection allows both batteries to be charged


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## CXRAndy (22 Oct 2021)

Those RM Superdelite GT Rohloif are super pricey £8250.00


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## Biker man (22 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> If you remove them from the bike, you have to charge separately. On the bike the connection allows both batteries to be charged


Thanks that's great.


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## simongt (22 Oct 2021)

And can it be inferred that the range is also affected by the amount of uphills and how much lights are used - ? 
Rather like electric cars. Decent range until winter sets in and you're using lights, wipers, demister / aircon, incar entertainment etc. on a longish journey.


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## Biker man (22 Oct 2021)

simongt said:


> And can it be inferred that the range is also affected by the amount of uphills and how much lights are used - ?
> Rather like electric cars. Decent range until winter sets in and you're using lights, wipers, demister / aircon, incar entertainment etc. on a longish journey.


That's what I have always thought of electric cars would not want to drive one on the M6 🤠


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## CXRAndy (23 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> That's what I have always thought of electric cars would not want to drive one on the M6 🤠



There are plenty rapid >50kW chargers on the M6.

It's TRUE there is a range loss with EVs in winter but it's not as drastic as the EV haters like to make out. 

One of the benefits is warming the cabin via mobile app or timer warms the battery pack also and this almost restores summer range capacity. 

Whilst sat in the Jim jams I warm up my seats, cabin and steering wheel from the kitchen table. The car is defrosted warm and battery is fully warmed for maximum performance.


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## simongt (23 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> There are plenty rapid >50kW chargers on the M6.


But of course, if you're living nowhere near the M.6, could be an issue - !


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## CXRAndy (24 Oct 2021)

simongt said:


> But of course, if you're living nowhere near the M.6, could be an issue - !



No, not really we live in the countryside, nearest rapid charger is some 22 miles away. I rarely use them. My EVs are invariably charged to 80% every morning. I would say >99% of the time I charge at home. 

For anyone with off street parking, owning an EV with a 7kW home charge point is bliss


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> There are plenty rapid >50kW chargers on the M6.
> 
> It's TRUE there is a range loss with EVs in winter but it's not as drastic as the EV haters like to make out.
> 
> ...


I don't hate them just think without infrastructure to charge them and a lot of improvement in the range then not for me; also what about the second hand market I know from experience that selling a used ebike is difficult.Think hydrogen is the best bet .


CXRAndy said:


> No, not really we live in the countryside, nearest rapid charger is some 22 miles away. I rarely use them. My EVs are invariably charged to 80% every morning. I would say >99% of the time I charge at home.
> 
> For anyone with off street parking, owning an EV with a 7kW home charge point is bliss


How long does it take to charge it to100% Andy .


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## CXRAndy (24 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> I don't hate them just think without infrastructure to charge them and a lot of improvement in the range then not for me; also what about the second hand market I know from experience that selling a used ebike is difficult.Think hydrogen is the best bet .
> 
> How long does it take to charge it to100% Andy .



Let me try and answer each of your points raised. 

It goes back to the statistics
95% of all car journeys in the western world are less than 35 miles per day-think about that. 50% are using cars for only 2 mile journeys!
There are so few of us travelling long distance per outing. Why would you need to have 500 mile range when the statistics don't agree with usage?

Infrastructure is already here and will obviously get better, but in reality we don't actually need the amount of stations like petrol stations-because all properties that have off street parking have the facilities to charge at home- making literally millions of charging stations. I've said elsewhere >99% of all my charging is done at home.

Hydrogen will have a part to play in the future. Currently its too expensive to make 'Green' hydrogen by electrolysis. It takes 50kWatts of electrical energy from wind or solar etc to make 1 kg of liquid hydrogen. The vast majority of hydrogen is made from Steam Methane Reforming process- basically using hydrocarbons to create a hydrogen-extremely un green.

Toyota have their 2nd version of their hydrogen car the Mirai. Its starts at £50k rising to mid £60k for a top spec. In comparison to a mid and high performance Tesla Model 3 ( similar price bracket), there is no comparison in performance. The Mirai taking 7.8 seconds to 0-60 whilst the Tesla does it 3.9 seconds. Once you've driven an electric car, nothing matches the punch of torque from the battery fed motors. My lowly Leaf outguns hot hatches and big capacity engine cars when accelerating from 20mph upwards.

Second hand market is very strong because there is a bottleneck of supply against ravenous demand currently. Brought on by petrol shortages. BTW this was an artificially created shortage by some of the bigger oil companies wanting cheap labour drivers from the continent. What it actually did, was accelerate EV demand further

If I am charging at home and I have say 15% capacity remaining in our model 3, it charges at a rate of 27 miles per hour from a 7 kWatt home charge point. Max range around 315 miles. Never timed but would expect 10 hours to fully charge overnight. Car automatically decides when it need to begin charging to be ready for use at 7.30 am- We don't often charge to max, around 60-80% is far more than we need for each day. 

When I stop at Superchargers they have charging rates of 120kWatts to 250kWatts for the newer models. Again you don't run down to empty maybe 10% and charge back upto 80%. Charging at these for the odd long journey is around 30 mins to 45 mins. Just enough time to force the family to have drink, stretch legs and go to loo.

I hope that helps explain my and others probably over enthusiastic delight of owning an EV. 

BTW some 90% if not more of all new cars purchases are done with lease/pcp deals. So not a lot of folk are laying out big sums upfront to run an EV. The savings in not buying petrol are significant to reduce overall monthly ownership of an EV


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Let me try and answer each of your points raised.
> 
> It goes back to the statistics
> 95% of all car journeys in the western world are less than 35 miles per day-think about that. 50% are using cars for only 2 mile journeys!
> ...


Thanks for all the info I have had a lift in one when I lived in Cambridgeshire a Leaf I think it was and enjoyed the experience but not convinced it's for me range anxiety I think it's called.


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## CXRAndy (24 Oct 2021)

There really isn't any range worries 

Sorry I cant help with your anxiety


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> There really isn't any range worries
> 
> Sorry I cant help with your anxiety


Just not convinced about them and it's all getting rushed cleaner engines and better fuel economy would be better in my humble opinion.Think I read somewhere that Cummins the American truck engines are making a hydrogen engine ,can't see people in Texas driving a electric car .


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2021)




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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

😇😇😇😇


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Let me try and answer each of your points raised.
> 
> It goes back to the statistics
> 95% of all car journeys in the western world are less than 35 miles per day-think about that. 50% are using cars for only 2 mile journeys!



I presume you meant 95% are less than 5 miles. We really ought to be targeting not making those short journeys by car, if we truly want to go green, as well as make streets pleasant and liveable again..

We really need to move away from the model that promotes personal car ownership , regardless of how they are powered.


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I presume you meant 95% are less than 5 miles. We really ought to be targeting not making those short journeys by car, if we truly want to go green, as well as make streets pleasant and liveable again..


Unless China India Brazil to name a few do something about climate change then electric cars here won't make one iota of difference.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Unless China India Brazil to name a few do something about climate change then electric cars here won't make one iota of difference.



Personal ownership of electric cars anywhere are not the solution.


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Personal ownership of electric cars anywhere are not the solution.


Finding a clean fuel is the answer make it a priority.


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## CXRAndy (24 Oct 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> I presume you meant 95% are less than 5 miles


95% of all car journeys are 35miles or less per day. 

Of all journeys, 50% drive only 2 miles per day- scandalous I know parents who are less than 500yds from school and yet drive there and straight back home, till school finishes and repeat.


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## CXRAndy (24 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Unless China India Brazil to name a few do something about climate change then electric cars here won't make one iota of difference.



That's not the attitude, just because your neighbours sh!t in their backyard, doesn't justify you doing the same.


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## Biker man (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> That's not the attitude, just because your neighbours sh!t in their backyard, doesn't justify you doing the same.


Its reality.


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## figbat (24 Oct 2021)

China are leading the EV charge, they are rapidly producing and selling EVs both domestically and internationally.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> 95% of all car journeys are 35miles or less per day.
> 
> Of all journeys, 50% drive only 2 miles per day- scandalous I know parents who are less than 500yds from school and yet drive there and straight back home, till school finishes and repeat.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Oct 2021)




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## Biker man (25 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> That's not the attitude, just because your neighbours sh!t in their backyard, doesn't justify you doing the same.


Toyota have a hydrogen car out with a range of over 800 miles fill the tank in minuets no battery to dispose of that's the way to go.


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## carpiste (25 Oct 2021)

Great if you have a hydrogen fuel pump and a spare £54000!


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## CXRAndy (26 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Toyota have a hydrogen car out with a range of over 800 miles fill the tank in minuets no battery to dispose of that's the way to go.



I beg to differ, hydrogen propulsion does have a battery pack. The most likely reason the fuel cell doesn't have capability to run the vehicle without a instant electrical store- aka lithium battery cell pack

Toyota claim 400 miles range. I expect nearer to 300. Let see what EPA and ev-database figures discover once properly tested

*Does a Mirai have a battery?


The new Mirai is equipped with lithium-ion high-voltage battery in place of the current model's nickel-metal hydride unit. Although smaller in size, it is more energy-dense, giving higher output and superior environmental performance.




*


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## Biker man (26 Oct 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I beg to differ, hydrogen propulsion does have a battery pack. The most likely reason the fuel cell doesn't have capability to run the vehicle without a instant electrical store- aka lithium battery cell pack
> 
> Toyota claim 400 miles range. I expect nearer to 300. Let see what EPA and ev-database figures discover once properly tested
> 
> ...


Its the way to go.


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## CXRAndy (26 Oct 2021)

Biker man said:


> Its the way to go.


No, it is not yet. Virtually all Hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. There is very little "green Hydrogen " being produced with huge electricity costs.

Battery technology does now have the benefit of being generated from probably around 50% renewable sources and this will increase for the future.

I liken it to beta max versus VHS. 

Battery tech with the likes of Tesla has won the PR battle and is currently streaking ahead. 

Toyota, are pretty much alone in deciding to go Hydrogen. Too late to stop the battery vehicle-at least for a couple of decades


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