# I need a serious road bike



## grafter (9 Jun 2009)

Hello to all from West Yorkshire from me 6'3. I done cycling in past for several years on and off with mountain bikes, dabbled in road bikes, in around my 20's. My family used to do time trials in days of old. Now had a long break from cycling put on a load of weight and am now nearly 40 . I am now getting the bug again after some neglect and one thing or another. I have been training indoors 3 hours a day for the last 3 weeks and am itching to get biking again properly and to keep healthy long term, it is a long term commitment. i will probably join a club in time. 

What i want is a bike to do serious proper fast road biking to train every night 15-20 miles and 30+ at the weekend. What i like is a decent fast road bike from the off, not one that i have to upgrade such as the wheels etc. The emphasis is on performance! not comfort. I have noticed frames and components getting lighter over the years. I don't know now what constitutes a good frame, stiffness etc. or even what size i need these days. I welcome some help on that or point me to a website. I know i would love a super light bike. I actually hate fixing bike and like a quality gear set and one that take some punishment over time. My budget for the bike without accessories would be about 1200. My thinking is not to spend much more as i have to spend alot more to get more technological advances, and in a few years you get more for a similar price, plus i don't want the fear of it getting nicked! 

scouting on web i seen some praise for the bikes below around the 1000 mark, and advice that 'specialized' will get you more bike for your money,and not worth to buy carbon unless you pay serious money than my budget. i know i don't want a bianchi going on looks or a trek or cannondale as they too associative with mountain bikes. what bike could you recommend me? and would any of these bikes be upto my needs as they seem to be highly praised over the web.

*Thanks*, and any help be much appreciated.

Ribble
Boardman
Cube Peloton
Kiron Scandium
Specialized Allez
Focus Cayo 105


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## Dayvo (9 Jun 2009)

This looks quite tasty!

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/z65-2008-road-bike-ec000581

As does this

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/six-105-compact-2009-road-bike-ec016600

and this

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/scott/speedster-s20-cd-2008-road-bike-ec001338

Depends if you want a double or triple chain ring and maybe possibly a compact! And also the kind of terrain you normally ride in. 

There is a HUGE choice, as you will soon find out from others who will soon be posting here.

Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the forum!


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## Dayvo (9 Jun 2009)

And Boardman bikes are, seemingly, all the rage, too!

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=35335&highlight=boardman+bikes

http://www.boardmanbikes.com/road/index.html


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## Ant (9 Jun 2009)

At your price point the good news is that you've got a very large choice.

The bad news is that you've got a very large choice.

I'm not going to recommend a specific bike, because you'll get loads of recommendations here anyway, but I will let you know my line of thinking when I was looking to spend that amount of money on a road bike:

to me £1200 is a fair amount to spend on a bike, so I wanted to make sure I got the right one for me. Although you'll get dozens of different bikes recommended to you, one thing everyone will agree on is that you need to get the correct size. This is why I decided to spend my £1200 on a custom built bike.

I was measured up, asked what my riding preferences and goals were, as well as what specifications I wanted...and got a bike built to suit me exactly. The difference in comfort and performance compared to the 'off the peg' bikes I'd been riding was remarkable.

Unfortunately, the company I used are probably based too far away for you, and I'm not familiar with your part of the country, but a bit of searching and asking about should lead you to a company that will do this for you.


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## grafter (9 Jun 2009)

not keen on cannondales. too plain jane for me. heard the felt is another worthy bike. if boardmans are decent bikes why are they being sold at halfords  yes they look the business but too noob to make a proper decision on them yet.

respect but my feeling is i get more for my money on a factory bike than a custom made one and i lack the patience to wait for it built. even if i got measured up it seems it still not a exact science and can still be wrong as everyone torso length is different and theres a number of different formulas. i did the book under the crotch and my inseam is 84cm and according to 1 formula result in 58cm but i know i would want a bigger frame as i lanky tall. maybe 61cm-63cm perhaps. i best go visit a bike shop for that.


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## grafter (9 Jun 2009)

i be cycling the yorkshire dales so they be plenty of hills. according to the below article a compact sounds appealing for me, but i now reading cyclists prefer triples for uphill and create more duplicates but the gear changes aren't as smooth. i am guess the chain get less wear and tear on compact. had a triple on my mountain bike but got so fit i only used the front big ring all time. this high cadence pedalling sounds interesting. 

can i buy a bike with a compact off the shelf? i think i need a compact 50/34 but unsure what cassette i should use. like more optimised gears together and i have the advantage on the hills.

edit: i see you recommended me bikes with compacts 



> CTS: Compact Cranks: The Real Story Thursday, October 05, 2006
> 
> - by: Adam Mills, M.S.Ed., Carmichael Training Systems: Senior Coach
> Years ago, as mountain bikes gained popularity, some road riders began envying the three-chainring cranks on the offroad bikes. “Triples” were soon available for road bikes, but they came at a price: they were heavy and required different front and rear derailleurs, a different bottom bracket, and a new shifter. Now there’s a new option for road riders, the compact crank. Is it just another way to get you to spend more cash at the bike shop, or are these cranks worth their weight in gold? Well, let’s go through the “W’s” and find out.
> ...


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## grafter (9 Jun 2009)

i settle on a one 12-27 cassette as opposed to the 11-23 and that give me a wider choice while i starting off unless someone got a better idea. will it cost me substantially more for that cassette rnage? i go with shimano gears.

i getting the hang of it now. something like the Specialized Allez Elite Compact Double would probably suit me and adequate.


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## Wigsie (9 Jun 2009)

The Cannondale Dayvo linked to is pretty darn good, I test rode one when looking for myself, alongside the Trek, Felt, Bianchi, and Scott offerings for 1k. A Friend of mine has the Focus Cayo and its also very nice. I am a gnats d*ck shy of 6ft 4 and when I rode the 61cm Spesh Allez Elite it was head and shoulders above the rest.

But that was my decision based on my prefernces and geometry I would visit as many LBS as you can and try as many bikes as possible. The good news is that you will be getting a great bike for that price bracket, its just about what you like and what feels right. 

One will stand out from the pack and thats when you hand over the cash.

Good Luck and keep us posted.


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## grafter (10 Jun 2009)

i not bothered about a carbon bike as i see the speed difference is not much anyway. i don't think the gears are as good standard on those boardman bikes and anyways they don't do a big enough frame for me. i would rather stick to a more established brand. i now see all the choices on evans in that price range... the Felt 2008 that Dayvo linked seems a good buy as it has the better Ultegra SL gearset. i'm sure Cannondale are very fine bikes, it was a knee jerk reaction from my past. there is quite alot choice of cannondales in that price range. i'm sure for that price they all fine bikes and the 105 gear will do me fine. it all comes down to how it rides for me. i best find some local decent bike shops to test out.

i was thinking i stick with a steel bike but these bikes are aluminium. i had a aluminium bike for 12 years. no complaints.


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## peanut (10 Jun 2009)

have a look in the may 09 issue of Cycling plus they did a comprehensive review of 36 bikes in the 1k-2k range


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## grafter (10 Jun 2009)

thanks will do and here is The Best Road bikes of 2009 by Outside

well 37 bikes tested here

from the bikes on Evans i narrow it down between the cannondale six which has the better parts such as brakes over the specialized allez elite which wins on looks. i think Fuji Roubaix RC is good value. yes the Focus Cayo is a beauty.


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## grafter (10 Jun 2009)

i think i go for one of these 2 now. they abit different and seem to be alot more bike than others at that price.

Focus_Cayo_105
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/cayo-09-33483
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Cayo_105_2009/5360037591/

Kiron Scandium - scrap that don't make big frames. not a good review on the forks.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/scandium-09-32740
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/:p/5360037396/
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/tech/Kiron_Scandium_Bike_Test_article_275724.html


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## grafter (10 Jun 2009)

or i embrace this http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/team-carbon-09-33934


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## grafter (10 Jun 2009)

this bike here won the 37 bike test  but still Shimano 105 and max frame 58cm

Giant TCR Advanced 3 - £1600
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/road/2421/32350/


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## garrilla (10 Jun 2009)

If you're going up to £1600 you could get Ribble Build (Scuro HCR Carbon Road Frame + Deda forks + Ultegra everything + Mavic Aksium wheels + Easton Bars) - 59cm should be OK for you


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## peanut (10 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> this bike here won the 36 bike test  but still Shimano 105 and max frame 58cm
> 
> Giant TCR Advanced 3 - £1600
> http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/road/2421/32350/



yes but you can always upgrade the groupset to Ultegra . The key thing to bear in mind here is that about 6x different experienced cyclists actually rode the bike in all conditions for a week . Its not an armchair review like the others. Its a proper thorough hands on testing review you can trust.

The Ribble was also very highly praised but had some high spec componentry (11 speed) so was expensive.

Still if the frame is too small its too small.
Take a look at the inner cover page of the C= mag though and feast your eyes on the full page ad ...gorgeous


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## punkypossum (10 Jun 2009)

What about one of them planet x ones?


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## accountantpete (10 Jun 2009)

personally I'd get a decent pair of wheels/tyres - the rest of the package is not that important as the difference between frames etc is pretty small


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## Mothyman (10 Jun 2009)

peanut said:


> have a look in the may 09 issue of Cycling plus they did a comprehensive review of 36 bikes in the 1k-2k range



where can I get hold of that review peanut?


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## Wigsie (10 Jun 2009)

MothyMan...

The contenders: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/bike-of-the-year-the-contenders-20989 

The top seven: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/revealed-our-top-road-bike-of-the-year-21018


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## Ant (10 Jun 2009)

Am I the only one who can't ever seem to open any Bikeradar links?


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## Wigsie (10 Jun 2009)

very possibly! just checked and seems fine.


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## grafter (11 Jun 2009)

garrilla said:


> If you're going up to £1600 you could get Ribble Build (Scuro HCR Carbon Road Frame + Deda forks + Ultegra everything + Mavic Aksium wheels + Easton Bars) - 59cm should be OK for you





peanut said:


> yes but you can always upgrade the groupset to Ultegra . The key thing to bear in mind here is that about 6x different experienced cyclists actually rode the bike in all conditions for a week . Its not an armchair review like the others. Its a proper thorough hands on testing review you can trust.



well if the bike that good and not having to make the leap to 2 grand. from what i read i hearing nothing but good things from Giant on there high end bikes in all departments and you all praise them. the trouble is with 2009 bikes there not established, and there isn't much reviews yet as you know. i'm sure bike radar mag are decent, honest, know what they on about and it not a conspiracy theory hehe. they are all capable bikes and opinions differ. it still alot faith just on 1 review. review aside, bikes of that caliber i can't help but be impressed with the new Giant stiffer frame range and what do i know...the Shimano 105 is more than adequate and those SRAM are a mean gear set. 

thinking longer term, if i go on a longer rides down the line. it probably be agony for me on something lesser. i now like the sound of stiff frame bikes that make fantastic racers but amazingly are still comfortable on a long ride, such as the Giant. what more could you want? i think it worth paying the extra for that but sounds like you got to pay nearer 2 grand for the privilege or it's a upgrade some time in the future. like the saying goes get the one you really want or you end up paying twice. as you say get a decent frame. the more i learn and read a grand bike wont do it all, now that i am thinking of longer rides as well. for abit more than my original budget you can hit the sweet spot. you welcome to flame me if you have or know a less expensive bike that will do all that. like i said before i like a bike from the off that i wont have to upgrade for a very long time apart from the cosmetics.



accountantpete said:


> personally I'd get a decent pair of wheels/tyres - the rest of the package is not that important as the difference between frames etc is pretty small



for me i don't see point of buying cheaper bike then pulling the wheels off, to put some marginally better ones on. i am too noob to appreciate the difference and the prices scare me. if i going to spend fortune on wheels, am i just better off building a custom bike? i get bike of decent quality that comes with decent wheels in the first place and concentrate on getting fit. maybe you will say i still can't get decent wheels on that bike price hehe. replacing the wheels to better the fulcum 5's, 7's etc, which you get on a bike of that price range, would it not create alot more expense for little gain? i am on a budget so applying expensive wheels on a £1000 bike would not be better than buying say a £1600 bike with a better frame and the rest of better components apart from the wheels. i need to learn about wheels. you given me an idea. maybe if i collect parts, 1 part a month, i will have one hell of a bike at the end of the year . now that patience.

get lighter components, upgrades etc. i mean where does it all end? the bike i get will be lot better than the ones were 10 years ago and in the end for me the enjoyment comes from the effort i put in, otherwise it's just unnecessary expense. i would like a cycle computer with a cadence meter built in though.

those boardmans might be the lamborghini equivalent for a grand but it doesn't instill confidence reading comments such as the staff not build it right, and not proficient in how to setup the SRAM gears. halfords still sounds like mickey mouse. paying that much i prefer not take the chance and goto proper bike builders.

it seems that trek, scott, pinarello and a few others you got to pay a substantial amount to get decent components and don't represent good value(i understand you getting a decent frame,wheels.), when you can pick up a Ribble(as well as killer looks) as peanut suggested which i'm loving like everybody else. also punkypossum's suggestion a Planet X oh and i like that Wilier but that Ribble is calling...too small?  well i look at it as a saving. that would of suited my idea of having a decent less popular bike than others, one of reasons i don't want a Trek. maybe i need a custom bike after all, although reading reviews on certain bikes they sometimes mention on buying the parts alone, it would cost several hundreds pounds more. i like to get a good spec for the money.

thanks alot for all your help and suggestions everybody so far, keep them coming. i am progressing with abit of a wiser open mind. it's now a lesser choice but a harder choice. be nice to test them all hehe. i'm going to the lbs this week and jump on a few bikes so i have a clearer idea of size frame.


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## dellzeqq (11 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> i settle on a one 12-27 cassette as opposed to the 11-23 and that give me a wider choice while i starting off unless someone got a better idea.


Not unless you live on the slopes of Mount Kilamanjaro. 12-25 would be tops. 12-23 would give you something to think about. 12-21 would give you honey-smooth gear changes and an arse made of welded steel.


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## Ant (11 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> maybe i need a custom bike after all, although reading reviews on certain bikes they sometimes mention on buying the parts alone, it would cost several hundreds pounds more. i like to get a good spec for the money.



I think you're misunderstanding custom bike prices. Yes, if _you_ bought the parts it would possibly cost more than buying an off-the -peg full bike, but the companies that specifically build custom bikes get these parts at trade prices, so they are buying them cheaper than you could. Yes, they stick their profit margins on top, but they often have less overheads than the bigger chains and can often put together a better specced bike for a price as good, if not better than a standard offering from the usual bike stores.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but it's worth a look.

Just as an example take a look here:

http://www.kinetic-one.co.uk/


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## jimboalee (11 Jun 2009)

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...-34715?source=newsletter&attr=road/2009/06/11

Hmmmm....

Four and a half grand for 16.25 lb,,,

They jest.


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## Sittingduck (11 Jun 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> Not unless you live on the slopes of Mount Kilamanjaro. 12-25 would be tops. 12-23 would give you something to think about. 12-21 would give you honey-smooth gear changes and an arse made of welded steel.



I got a 13-26 
But I live on a hill!


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## garrilla (11 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> where does it all end?



does it end?


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## accountantpete (11 Jun 2009)

Re the wheels,Grafter, it is hard to overstate the benefits of a decent set.

The basics are that if you want comfort then 36 spoke wheels are the way to go. Performance generally requires a sub 30 spoke count so many go down the 32 spoke handbuilt route using say Mavic CXP22 or 33's as a compromise.


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## gavintc (11 Jun 2009)

accountantpete said:


> Re the wheels,Grafter, it is hard to overstate the benefits of a decent set.
> 
> The basics are that if you want comfort then 36 spoke wheels are the way to go. Performance generally requires a sub 30 spoke count so many go down the 32 spoke handbuilt route using say Mavic CXP22 or 33's as a compromise.



My Ksyrium SLs are very comfortable. I do not think spoke count is that important in comfort. I accept that if your are lugging panniers, you need more spokes, but my wheels have done many thousands, rarely need truing and are good enough for me.


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## Mothyman (11 Jun 2009)

Wigsie said:


> MothyMan...
> 
> The contenders: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/bike-of-the-year-the-contenders-20989
> 
> The top seven: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/revealed-our-top-road-bike-of-the-year-21018



thanks Wigsie


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> Not unless you live on the slopes of Mount Kilamanjaro. 12-25 would be tops. 12-23 would give you something to think about. 12-21 would give you honey-smooth gear changes and an arse made of welded steel.



good point. my thinking the 12-27 would keep up cadence on the big hills. i getting a compact so i won't need 12-27 anyway unless the hills are really big right, so a 12-25 be better plus the smoother gear changes  thanks. i think i play it alittle safe. a 12-23 12-21 would go against me, i lose cadence on the hills and that 25 is there if i need it. a good compromise.

but according to this quote from this recent article a 11/25 sounds even better still!


> “what will this compact crank do for my top end speed when I go down hills?” If maintaining a 36-38mph pace you can still use the compact. Yes the 50 is smaller and you do lose some top end speed by going to the compact but by going with a different cassette, you can have the best of both worlds. By blending an 11/23 and 12/25 cassette to make an 11/25, you can have your cake and eat it too. Because when you run the compact with the 50/34 chainrings and an 11/25 cassette you have gearing that is still easier than standard 53/39 and 12/27 gearing. With the top end the 50/11 combo is actually a BIGGER gear than the 53/12 combo. With that you now can spin easier than before up the hills and still being able to push the gear while rolling at 38+mph. Sure it takes some doing but as said before it can be well worth it!


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

garrilla said:


> If you're going up to £1600 you could get Ribble Build (Scuro HCR Carbon Road Frame + Deda forks + Ultegra everything + Mavic Aksium wheels + Easton Bars) - 59cm should be OK for you



good suggestion. i hearing they are some 6'3 riders on 58cm that they prefer/suit so maybe! that frame is £750. the Giant TCR Advanced frame is £1000. i could spend the difference on better wheels and still have a good frame. i was looking at the Fulcrum 3 wheels and these that is around my budget. will handbuilts get me better wheels for that amount?



peanut said:


> The Ribble was also very highly praised but had some high spec componentry (11 speed) so was expensive.





peanut said:


> you can always upgrade the groupset to Ultegra .



serious money. if the ribble would fit, a idea is choose same spec but another quality gearset such as Campag Centaur 10spd Ultra-Torque a drop of £300.

theres a problem the 50/34 compact crankset is not available with the Ultegra but it is with the Campag Contour(equal if not better) and the Shimano 105.

with the same spec garilla suggested with Aksium wheels plus the better Campag gearset it come to £1500. that be a much better gearset than on the Giant. with the Shimano gearset it come to £1464. the Ribble in the review has Pro Elite rims, some type of aero wheel, does it gives you much advantage? what about instead of spending for a pair keep the front and get a much better/stiffer rear wheel, something like a Mavic Cosmic Carbone bad idea?


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

accountantpete said:


> it is hard to overstate the benefits of a decent set.
> 
> The basics are that if you want comfort then 36 spoke wheels are the way to go. Performance generally requires a sub 30 spoke count so many go down the 32 spoke handbuilt route using say Mavic CXP22 or 33's as a compromise.



i am slowly gathering, what i want is racing/training performance with the strength and durability that i can use all the time with alittle comfort. is that possible? i go no lower than 32 then, that be a good compromise and maintain some strength i think. will those Mavic CXP22, 33 rims be heavy? thanks for filling me in. it would appear on a bike of £1000-£1500 the wheels will cost approx £75-125. i think most i pay for wheels now or in future would be no more than 400ish.



gavintc said:


> My Ksyrium SLs are very comfortable. I do not think spoke count is that important in comfort. I accept that if your are lugging panniers, you need more spokes, but my wheels have done many thousands, rarely need truing and are good enough for me.



that sounds a real nice pair from reading but out of my price league. right i'm convinced, buy some superior wheels and it's a whole new world right ? it just be a question of when. i might just settle on the lesser wheels i get with bike and upgrade when i ready as the bike itself be fun, enough as it first time with todays technology in 15 years.

which is best aluminium or steel spokes?

should i use clinchers or tubeless? i all for tubeless aslong as they are safe 99% of the time. i have this little fear when i replace they might roll off at high speed. if modern clinchers today are nearly as good then i prefer to use them otherwise i would use tubeless for the performance.


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## jimboalee (12 Jun 2009)

I had this same problem in 1975. I wanted a 'balls out' race bike and I had been keeping my eye on what was about.

For comparison sake, a Yamaha FS1E sixteener special 50cc moped/motorbike was £265 'on the road' and a gallon of 4star was 29p.

Bernard Thevenet won the Tour on a Peugeot, so I plumped for one of those.

It cost £380. More than my Yamaha FS1E did a year later (£295).

A Yammie 50cc sporty scooter today? £2000 ?

A decent roadbike today? £2700....


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

Ant said:


> I think you're misunderstanding custom bike prices. Yes, if _you_ bought the parts it would possibly cost more than buying an off-the -peg full bike, but the companies that specifically build custom bikes get these parts at trade prices, so they are buying them cheaper than you could. Yes, they stick their profit margins on top, but they often have less overheads than the bigger chains and can often put together a better specced bike for a price as good, if not better than a standard offering from the usual bike stores.
> 
> I'm not saying that's always the case, but it's worth a look.
> 
> ...



i understand. it abit like with computers now, you can't build it cheaper than the big companies. i was thinking how to save abit on the price. do custom builders only build bikes up solely on there own frames? thanks for the explanation and link. the quote on the top model kinetic with there mid range components was approx £1800. respect to small custom builders. i appreciate quality. unfortunately i dont have transport so i cannot travel to loads of decent bike shops, builders. to help narrow down choice from lots of potentials and avoid a possible lemon, i decided to go for outstanding 2009 models in my price range.


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## Apeman (12 Jun 2009)

*Cube cycles*

my boss bought a Cube hybrid through Cyclescheme. It is his first bike and is quite tasty. It has hydraulic rim brakes as opposed to disc brakes among its high spec. Has anyone got one of these machines and are they worth the money. Answers on a postcard please!!!


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## accountantpete (12 Jun 2009)

All I can say,Grafter, is that I use these and they are fantastic. If I need a bit of comfort on a long trip then I simply reduce the tyre pressure.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/productdetail.asp?productcatalogue=CAMPWHFR500

These are campag compatible - there are also Shimano compatible sets available but I suspect you will have to pay a bit more for them.

The only downside is that if you have a prang or bust a spoke it can be difficult and expensive to repair - the LBS won't have a clue!


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## peanut (12 Jun 2009)

a lad used to turn up at our Sunday club run occasionally on an old shopping bike . It was a Raleigh something or other with 10 gears and a womens frame. The tyres were typical 28c with huge treads and the bike looked like it had been left out in the garden. 
The kid used to turn up often the worse for wear having been on the sauce the night before and proceed to amble round the 40 hilly miles over the Quantocks without any apparent effort whilst the rest of us on our shiny new £1000+ bling bikes sweated and cursed up and down every hill. 

The moral here is its not the bike or the frame or the wheels its the rider that counts. You'll not go any faster if your frame weighs 350 gms less than the next bloke's bike or your wheels are twice as expensive.


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## jimboalee (12 Jun 2009)

peanut said:


> a lad used to turn up at our Sunday club run occasionally on an old shopping bike . It was a Raleigh something or other with 10 gears and a womens frame. The tyres were typical 28c with huge treads and the bike looked like it had been left out in the garden.
> The kid used to turn up often the worse for wear having been on the sauce the night before and proceed to amble round the 40 hilly miles over the Quantocks without any apparent effort whilst the rest of us on our shiny new £1000+ bling bikes sweated and cursed up and down every hill.
> 
> The moral here is its not the bike or the frame or the wheels *its the rider that counts*. You'll not go any faster if your frame weighs 350 gms less than the next bloke's bike or your wheels are twice as expensive.



There is a lot of truth, nay, THE truth spoken here.

The UCI weight limit is 15lb. Up the Alps, the winner is the guy with the strongest legs. - most of the time 

The other moral here is:
If you're riding a 15lb Spesh or Scott, be EXPECTED to climb like a pro.


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

accountantpete said:


> they are fantastic. If I need a bit of comfort on a long trip then I simply reduce the tyre pressure.



yes good to hear and good price. i was mentioning them in previous post. fulcrum racing 3's are similar build possibly stronger and maybe repaired easier. maybe you are light rider. i am heavy rider. there is a few comments on zonda that the front isn't stiff enough and suggested to use loctite on the spokes.

@peanut
i hear you but fitness,form combined with a better bike will be even better still surely. a lighter bike will get up the hills easier. i trying to maximize the spec for the cost. i could pay 2x 3x my budget but it wouldnt justify the cost. you got to pay a certain amount for something half decent. i had cheap and nasty bikes in the past and they gave me grief one way or the other. i better bike will keep me focused. i not a salesmen dream quite the opposite. it a big initial purchase but the cost isn't really expensive using bike consistently for 5+ years and the enjoyment you get out of it. best i get bike upto the job more. so it justifed to me. 

he wins because after the drink he has a kebab and that's 1500 carbs! lol of course there is the exception and natural athletes. maybe he was adding creatine to his beer.


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

there is a 'how to fit bike' on youtube. it looks a precise guide. what you think? 
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk


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## garrilla (12 Jun 2009)

There's lots of discussion on fitting elsewhere in this forum. Basically there are two sets of variables that are of importance, inside leg/torso length and seat-tube/top tube. You can alter any issue of the seat-tube by altering the saddle height. You can't do this with the top tube. So matching the length of the top tube to your torsoe is probably more important. 

But, after all the stuff about fitting, the issue remains, is it comfortable? No measuring system can tell you this in advance.


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## Sittingduck (12 Jun 2009)

I'd go to an LBS or 2 and sit on 3 or 4 road bikes of different makes. This will surely give a fair indication of what size you might need. Costs nowt


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

garrilla said:


> matching the length of the top tube to your torsoe is probably more important.



so due to my bigger longer human frame mainly length of torso a longer top tube would play a bigger role, fit me better, give me more comfort and less squashed, hunched over? would it mean i can fit well or even better on a slightly smaller frame if it had a custom longer top tube do you think? what's the criteria on deciding the ideal length of top tube for your height? i see what bike shop has to say about that. if a longer top tube be definately better fit then i go with that and go with a custom bike made. i dont want to put up with something if it aint right. i see now until you get properly measured up you none the wiser if the factory bike is really the best fit. i wonder is there any factory frames out there that suited specifically for taller riders?



Sittingduck said:


> I'd go to an LBS or 2 and sit on 3 or 4 road bikes of different makes. This will surely give a fair indication of what size you might need. Costs nowt


yes i am soon enough. going to a lbs with a excellent reputation that been building custom bikes for years. in meantime i kept closer eye on makes that do bigger bike frames to avoid disappointment and not waste time getting hung up on model only to find they dont do my size when time comes. i heard 1 quote bigger frames are stiffer and another quote saying they not.


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## I am Spartacus (12 Jun 2009)

I know its only June.. but you'll need a winter hack as well..
( you dont want to be on your best bike for ever 'cept for racing and glory days )

will you be havin' another elongated thread for that tho?


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> I know its only June.. but you'll need a winter hack as well..



i got it covered i taking out a loan and getting a Cervelo S3 for that lol. i will bridge that gap when i come to it. maybe i get some winter wheels. who knows attitude changes when more into it down the road and i can make a better choice. right now i psychologically committed to a 1500 bike .



> will you be havin' another elongated thread for that tho?


well maybe! you be the first to know lol. i thought this was cycling chat i'm just sharing my scientific approach . i been out of it so long and never did it properly. i thought it good to share ask questions and learn from real cyclists experiences so i can make better choice, instead of believing in hype and biased reviews. like i say i dont have many lbs where i live to get the right advice. in the end they a business trying to sell you one of theres. i dont want 2-3-4 bikes to cover all situations. i just want one for the same terrain every time.


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## garrilla (12 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> i got it covered i taking out a loan and getting a Cervelo S3 for that lol. i will bridge that gap when i come to it. maybe i get some winter wheels.



Did your scientific method not expose the lack of clearance on the S3 for the essential winter hack mudguards?


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## grafter (12 Jun 2009)

garrilla said:


> Did your scientific method not expose the lack of clearance on the S3 for the essential winter hack mudguards?



there you go even for £3500 no bike is perfect . so theres a 2 grand saving. i wont need another bike in winter because that's when i be writing another elongated thread. lol 

mudguards are for wimps!

i not even got a bike yet! and i got more passion for cycling than you! lol


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## rjkc600 (12 Jun 2009)

I bought a specialized Allez 27. Its my first bike for over 10 years, and £600 was my budget. 

I am 6ft3, long legs, and got the 58cm frame. I wish id got the 61cm frame now though, as the 58 seems a little small when riding. I had to take the 58 as there are no 61cm Allez 27's left in the country. 

And to think that all the shops were saying id need a 56cm frame, makes me wonder if they have any idea.


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## grafter (14 Jun 2009)

been to bike shop and sat on lots of different size road bikes and rode a couple. they were most helpful. it appears different bike brands use there own style of measurement. a 58cm on one brand is not the same as another. due to the style of frame. length of top tube. i need a 61cm, 60cm is still comfortable and may handle better. if i used 58cm it is uncomfortable and needs more reach to the handlebars especially the drops. fitting a bigger stem doesn't solve it. i'm sure some sort of ache would develop over long rides. a 175mm crank be fine for me.

@rjkc600

the frame size you treat as a yardstick. it best what feels natural,right to you in the end. if it felt too small or not right for whatever reason then you should of walked away/sent back. no way 56cm is too small for you. you live and learn.

i found this canyon bike fit system. it was fun to play with and gives you a close estimate. you can get your measurements to input from here it helps getting some figures first for yourself just in case bike shop doesn't know what they doing or has a fixed notion on what you want. then you know what other sizes you can try out.

instead of a winter hack going to use a indoor trainer.


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## peanut (14 Jun 2009)

stop faffing about Grafter and buy a decent used bike of good quality like this one. This bike is gorgeous and worth twice the asking price.
Wish I could afford it I'd buy it in a flash.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Saracen-Tourmalet-with-ultegra-and-shimano-105-set-up_W0QQitemZ250443838458QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Bikes_GL?hash=item3a4f9db3fa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A3|294%3A50


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## grafter (14 Jun 2009)

not really faffing about just trying to be wise making bigger purchase and quality important to me. i catching up and just looking for something that meets more what i want. if i don't know whats available i cant make a good decision right. i am technically minded. i cant get around to other end of country. plus that not what i want. thanks for that. i want something more pro. i found bikes i want but not in my size. i learnt alot in several days already. the Shimano 105 is fine and with the extra saving i get some decent wheels.

i think i steer clear of carbon cheap or otherwise. i keeping bike long time so i want something durable. carbon stresses and not been tested over long time. when carbon shatters it can result in more nasty accident. i feel safer on a steel/aluminium bike that i can give it some welly. 

be nice to know some favored custom bike builders other than mentioned.

apologies if this thread sounds like a blog.


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## peanut (14 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> i think i steer clear of carbon cheap or otherwise.
> 
> carbon stresses and not been tested over long time.



what are you banging on about ?

The bike frame I suggested is aluminium not carbon.Read the ad again. 


Carbon framed bikes have been around for more than 10 years so there is plenty of history .How long do you intend to keep this bike 50 years ? 

You want a 'pro' bike well all the pros use carbon. I doubt there will be anything else used in the Tour de France


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## grafter (14 Jun 2009)

i know it isn't carbon. i wasn't referring about that bike. bike is fine but i already said i want something better. if i buy that i have to buy again. i had too many crap bikes. i don't want Saracen make for starters. read the above paragraph again too lol

it is only recently that they knocking out carbon bikes using cheaper process, hence the cheaper price. the bikes from 10 years ago will of used a better process. 5 years after punishment hows it gonna be? the bikes for Tour De France are only used for 3 weeks and no doubt higher quality. carbon handlebars and seat posts snap later when they been over tightened. they snap full stop a steel/alloy/aluminum would of not in the same circumstances. lets see how those cheaper carbon Ribble frames are in 5 years+. they have a crap customer service. if they dont give shoot about there customers...



> Ribble are a bunch of idiots and crooks. You risk serious hassle if you
> have anything to do with them.





> I visited Ribble and had a good old look at their frames. On the surface they looked fine. However, whilst there a guy was complaining about exactly the same problem you have - creaking! The response he got from the guy at Ribble was such that they couldn't give a damn about the fact the frame was just over 12 months old!



sure pro bikes are carbon but some are not. if you in a race then every second counts and the lighter bike will help. i not in a race. i got pros telling me carbon is over rated anyway! you can get a steel bike weighing under 18 pounds!

it sounds like most of you ride commuters around here and any old crap will do.

i thought it good to ask questions. its ok i go where theres more expert advice. i wouldn't be 'faffing about' and 'bangin on' if i got that. thanks alot.


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## grafter (14 Jun 2009)

jimboalee said:


> The UCI weight limit is 15lb. Up the Alps, the winner is the guy with the strongest legs. - most of the time



given our roughly 4-pound range from a full steel bike to a super-light carbon or aluminum bike, the time difference up this hill would be 24 seconds from best to worst.

most weight conscious people aren't bringing their bikes down to 15 pounds because down at that weight, the handling gets very sketchy.


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## jimboalee (14 Jun 2009)

grafter said:


> given our roughly 4-pound range from a full steel bike to a super-light carbon or aluminum bike, the time difference up this hill would be 24 seconds from best to worst.
> 
> most weight conscious people aren't bringing their bikes down to 15 pounds because down at that weight, the handling gets very sketchy.



OK, so if you know all about it, why are you asking us?


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## grafter (14 Jun 2009)

i didn't. i found that out waiting for answers.


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