# Wheel building stand



## loveandpeace1 (5 Dec 2015)

Wheel building stand. Been using zip ties and bits of tape stuck to forks and chainstays but would like to try build with a decent stand.
All the best


----------



## Spoked Wheels (5 Dec 2015)

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWWT/jobsworth-wheel-truing-workshop-stand


----------



## wam68 (5 Dec 2015)

No need to go second hand. Keep an eye on planet x. They were doing the jobsworth stand for around 40 quid last week. Will keep an eye out for you and will let you know if I see it again


----------



## wam68 (5 Dec 2015)

Spoked Wheels said:


> http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWWT/jobsworth-wheel-truing-workshop-stand


 dang your quick.


----------



## Soltydog (5 Dec 2015)

wam68 said:


> No need to go second hand. Keep an eye on planet x. They were doing the jobsworth stand for around 40 quid last week. Will keep an eye out for you and will let you know if I see it again


It was £50 6pm yesterday in their flash sale, think Santa might be bringing me one


----------



## wam68 (5 Dec 2015)

That's the one. Wasn't,t sure of the exact price. I have the memory of a gold fish￼


----------



## loveandpeace1 (5 Dec 2015)

Thanks guys. Would i be right in assuming, You don't need a dishing tool with one of these.
All the best


----------



## Spoked Wheels (5 Dec 2015)

loveandpeace1 said:


> Thanks guys. Would i be right in assuming, You don't need a dishing tool with one of these.
> I wonder also is a "spoke tension meter" a must ?.
> All the best



You will need a dishing tool. 

I don't know this particular stand but the Parktools TS-2.2 can give you a very good idea of the dishing (if properly calibrated) but it's not too accurate. The stand from the link is a copy of the Parktools so it's possible it does the same.

If you have a half a decent ear you can true by tone and by squeezing spokes of a similar wheel that is appropriately tensioned you can figure the final tension on the wheel you are building.


----------



## loveandpeace1 (5 Dec 2015)

Thanks mate. I think its definitely doable. My biggest concern is spoke lengths. I have digital calipers and have looked at the calculators on line.
Perhaps if you or a member have built a few wheels you could just look at the final calculations.
All the best


----------



## FrankCrank (6 Dec 2015)

.....not claiming to be a wheelologist, having only built 3 wheels myself. Strongly recommend you strip down and rebuild an old wheel to gain some experience. Tools required - spoke key. Upturned bike makes a very good truing stand. Dishing is achieved by spoke length and measurement. Try this link:

http://www.sapim.be/spoke-calculator

In my experience wheel building ranks number one as being portrayed as some sort of black art that can only be practiced by seasoned professionals - utter sh**e.

Thankyou, I feel much better now........


----------



## Tail End Charlie (6 Dec 2015)

Get the book by Roger Musson from wheelpro.co.uk, it'll be the best £8 or 9 you've ever spent. Describes how to make your own stand and dishing tool. I made one for less than a tenner. The book also explains in easily understood language (no lingo, or black magic) how build wheels from start to finish, including how to work out spoke lengths and the website has a length calculator. You can't go wrong with it.


----------



## Spoked Wheels (6 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> In my experience wheel building ranks number one as being portrayed as some sort of black art that can only be practiced by seasoned professionals - utter sh**e.



I will say this..... people that try wheel building and end up with an egg shape wheel give the skill of wheel building the name "black art" I certainly encourage people to try and see how easy it is, having said that, some people just can't do it, or at least do it properly. Also, it takes a little more than building a few wheels to build reliable wheels though.


----------



## Tail End Charlie (6 Dec 2015)

Spoked Wheels said:


> I will say this..... people that try wheel building and end up with an egg shape wheel give the skill of wheel building the name "black art" I certainly encourage people to try and see how easy it is, having said that, some people just can't do it, or at least do it properly. Also, it takes a little more than building a few wheels to build reliable wheels though.


I agree, when I said above you can't go wrong, I meant in respect that the book is well worth the money. Properly tensioning a wheel isn't easy, it takes time and patience and the more you do, the quicker you get, but it always needs patience. Sometimes it needs you to loosen everything off and start again, but that's all part of the fun.


----------



## Spoked Wheels (6 Dec 2015)

Tail End Charlie said:


> I agree, when I said above you can't go wrong, I meant in respect that the book is well worth the money. Properly tensioning a wheel isn't easy, it takes time and patience and the more you do, the quicker you get, but it always needs patience. Sometimes it needs you to loosen everything off and start again, but that's all part of the fun.


Indeed, Roger's book is an excellent starting point.

I don't think it's difficult to properly tension a wheel but as you said, it takes time and patience and you must be methodical. Experience gives you the confidence on what you are doing and that in terms saves you time.

The beauty with wheel building is that you can start again if you make a mistake. I don't think it would be as easy if you were plastering a wall  I have had to start again a couple of times..... once I didn't get the alignment of the valve hole and hub label correct and just a few months ago I managed to get 2 spokes crossing under the valve hole.... all it took was one lapse in concentration. The wheels would still work but I can't sleep knowing I made a mistake like that  and I'm not joking. There is a very popular wheel builder with some forum members that in his website had wheels with spokes crossing under the valve hole, the last time I looked......


----------



## FrankCrank (6 Dec 2015)

....all I used was the spoke calculator that I linked, and the free video tutorial over on Atomic Zombie (no special/expensive tools). Brad does an excellent, plain talking demo, in stages, and it really is simple to follow. I still reckon grabbing an old wheel and rebuilding it is the best way to go to get all the hands on experience you need, or even just redish it rather than rebuild, then do a full rebuild as your confidence grows.

One thing is certain, you can't learn to ride a bike just from reading a book. You have to jump on it and fall off a few times until you get the idea, but a few scars are a small price to pay for so much fun........


----------



## Spoked Wheels (7 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> ....all I used was the spoke calculator that I linked, and the free video tutorial over on Atomic Zombie (no special/expensive tools). Brad does an excellent, plain talking demo, in stages, and it really is simple to follow. I still reckon grabbing an old wheel and rebuilding it is the best way to go to get all the hands on experience you need, or even just redish it rather than rebuild, then do a full rebuild as your confidence grows.
> 
> One thing is certain, you can't learn to ride a bike just from reading a book. You have to jump on it and fall off a few times until you get the idea, but a few scars are a small price to pay for so much fun........



I could only find one tutorial on wheel building on the website Atomic Zombie, and that wheel has all 36 spokes of the same length. A different matter is with the spokes on two different lengths.

BTW there are much better tutorials out there.

If you think you can build a standard rear wheel or disc front wheel by using a spoke length calculator and a wheel building tutorial (no expensive tools) then you know something I don't know and I think I also speak for the many professional wheel builders out there with many years of experience. Unless, of course, you build yourself a cheap dishing tool 

Although, I learnt and practiced wheel building with an old wheel, I'd be careful advising people to use an old wheel and I'll explain why  I once was asked to see what this new builder was doing that was finding so difficult.... the poor guy had followed somebody's advise and picked up an old steel wheel and once he removed the spokes the thing was not longer a straight rim..... rebuilding that thing would make anyone cry . I had to rebuilt one like that for a friend once and it was the hardest wheel to build ever. ... the spokes were more like metal shoe laces .

A new rim with new spokes and nipples is the easiest way, but it can be done with used wheels too.... just make sure you don't pick a wheel like the one I mentioned above


----------



## FrankCrank (7 Dec 2015)

....the 3 wheels I built were all non-dished, as I prefer hub gears or single speed for my builds. I've also undished 2 wheels in the past, again to convert to single speed, and seemed a very easy thing to do. I haven't yet had to build a dished wheel from scratch, but can't see it being vastly more difficult, guess I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it....


----------



## Spoked Wheels (7 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> ....the 3 wheels I built were all non-dished, as I prefer hub gears or single speed for my builds. I've also undished 2 wheels in the past, again to convert to single speed, and seemed a very easy thing to do. I haven't yet had to build a dished wheel from scratch, but can't see it being vastly more difficult, guess I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it....


In that case I think you needed to say, on your firsr post, that your experience was with non dished wheels and for that you don't need a dishing tool.

The trick with a dished wheel is to achieve the dishing and at the same time making sure the the spokes on the non drive side aren't under tensioned.


----------



## FrankCrank (7 Dec 2015)

...I stand by everything I've said in this thread so far, and you should't feel that I am just picking on the 'art' of wheel building. I'll extend that feeling and say that there is much deception and guile in every aspect of cycling. Some are taken in by it, but not all..........


----------



## Spoked Wheels (7 Dec 2015)

FrankCrank said:


> ...I stand by everything I've said in this thread so far, and you should't feel that I am just picking on the 'art' of wheel building. I'll extend that feeling and say that there is much deception and guile in every aspect of cycling. Some are taken in by it, but not all..........



I don't feel you are picking on the "Art" of wheel building, your words 
I was simply pointing out that your advise IMO was at best incomplete. I will try to explain why I thought so

The OP said in his opening post "Been using zip ties and bits of *tape stuck to forks and chainstays but would like to try build with a decent stand*".
and in the next post he said "*Would i be right in assuming, You don't need a dishing tool with one of these*.
I wonder also is a "spoke tension meter" a must ?."

You replied with "Tools required - spoke key. *Upturned bike makes a very good truing stand*. *Dishing is achieved by spoke length and measurement*"

and in the next post "....all I used was the spoke calculator that I linked, and the free video tutorial over on Atomic Zombie (*no special/expensive tools*)."

The whole point of this thread is that the OP is looking to move on from using forks and chainstays to a wheel stand but your advise was to use an upturned bike. You also explained how dishing was achieved when it's obvious the OP knows what a dishing tool is, further confusion is added when you say you don't use any special/expensive tools. The confusion becomes clear when you admit you have not actually built a dished wheel.

I explained why one needs to be careful in advising people to start with a used wheel but you still stand by everything you said. 

Let's put and end to this conversation by agreeing to disagree on how we both advise people on the subject of wheel building.


----------



## loveandpeace1 (7 Dec 2015)

Thanks guys. I have read and watched loads of stuff. The reason i want i stand is to get the wheels 100%. I find on the bike, Anything under a mm is really hard to see. 
All the best


----------



## FrankCrank (23 Dec 2015)

....this might help.....

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/p-k-lie-special250-wheel-truing-stand-46047/


----------

