# How well known is cyclechat outside of the cyclechat community?



## I like Skol (26 Jun 2018)

I was just talking to a British Cycling instructor that was running an MTB course after school at my sons school. We were discussing my cycling history and how I had encouraged my kids to cycle. He was surprised that someone as involved with cycling as I am was not a cycling club member. Then my youngest piped up 'you are a member of the forum dad!' 
I then explained I took part in some rides organised through the forum. He asked which forum but when I named cyclechat he claimed to have not heard of it!

This raised two questions for me.
1st, how well known is cyclechat outside of the cyclechat membership but within the broader cycling community? I don't expect Jo Public to know who we are but surely we are as well known as BikeRadar or road.cc?
2nd, are British Cycling missing a trick by thinking that cycling and the promotion of cycling revolves around the traditional club structure while in reality it is possible that a lot more cycling activity takes place 'under the radar' organised via forums, facebook groups and other informal collections?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (26 Jun 2018)

British Who?


----------



## Slick (26 Jun 2018)

It seems pretty much unheard of around the few people that I either cycle with or even discuss cycling with. It did surprise me to begin with, but I soon came to the same conclusion as User13710 that this forum is not quite as all encompassing as I first thought.


----------



## KneesUp (26 Jun 2018)

I'm surprised. When I started cycling again and was googling for stuff, Cyclechat seemed to come up all the time, much more than other sites, to the extent that I thought I might as well become a member.


----------



## I like Skol (26 Jun 2018)

KneesUp said:


> I'm surprised. When I started cycling again and was googling for stuff, Cyclechat seemed to come up all the time, much more than other sites, to the extent that I thought I might as well become a member.


Indeed. I signed up after googling advice for commuting and also looking for views/reviews of a bike that i wanted to buy. Most things seemed to lead to cyclechat so i signed up and posted my question the next day. The rest, as they say, is history.....


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2018)

I don't think any members of my club are aware of - or even remotely interested in - online cycling forums. The same goes for all the people I know who work in cycling media (unless you count Road.cc).

The club has a facebook group but only a minority of members participate in that - it's a small handful of people who make the vast majority of posts.


----------



## I like Skol (26 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> I don't think any members of my club are aware of - or even remotely interested in - online cycling forums. The same goes for all the people I know who work in cycling media (unless you count Road.cc).
> 
> The club has a facebook group but only a minority of members participate in that - it's a small handful of people who make the vast majority of posts.


So does this mean that cycling clubs still hold the key for access to organised group riding? Is cyclechat basically a glorified facebook group, putting like minded people in contact for discussion of the hobby and informal rides?


----------



## ColinJ (26 Jun 2018)

Most riders that I have spoken to who don't frequent CC have never heard of it.

TBH, I have spoken to CC members who have never even heard of other CC members who have made thousands of posts!

I have even spoken to CC members on my forum rides who have been on the forum for 10+ years, who visit regularly, and who know who I am, but who had never even noticed me blitzing the forum with hundreds of posts about my past health problems***.



I like Skol said:


> So does this mean that cycling clubs still hold the key for access to organised group riding?


For a lot of people, yes.



I like Skol said:


> Is cyclechat basically a glorified facebook group, putting like minded people in contact for discussion of the hobby and informal rides?


Yes!




*** Sorry for doing that! I'm fairly sure that I was suffering from a form of PTSD which made me quite obsessed with the subject. I still mention it from time to time when I think it might be useful, but not 30 times a day ...


----------



## Heltor Chasca (26 Jun 2018)

There are days when I don’t even know who I am, but a quick look through my posts and my memory is soon up to speed.


----------



## Brandane (26 Jun 2018)

Me Sir, Me Sir! I know of this CycleChat thing!
But nobody else I know has ever heard of it....
I have recommended it to a few fellow cyclists in the past, who I know signed up but faded away after a few posts - as I am sure the vast majority of registered members do.

Could it be that active members on here are not fans of FB and other social media? I know I am not, and this forum is about as close as I get to social media. Other people I know are more into FB and also use it for accessing local cycle groups/clubs. Not being attracted to club style riding, that is of no interest to me.


----------



## ColinJ (26 Jun 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> There are days when I don’t even know who I am, but a quick look through my posts and my memory is soon up to speed.


I have found 3 threads over on Bike Radar that I made long posts in but have no recollection of even reading!


----------



## slowmotion (26 Jun 2018)

We're pretty unimportant. Hey! it's the internet.


----------



## dan_bo (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> I was just talking to a British Cycling instructor that was running an MTB course after school at my sons school. We were discussing my cycling history and how I had encouraged my kids to cycle. He was surprised that someone as involved with cycling as I am was not a cycling club member. Then my youngest piped up 'you are a member of the forum dad!'
> I then explained I took part in some rides organised through the forum. He asked which forum but when I named cyclechat he claimed to have not heard of it!
> 
> This raised two questions for me.
> ...


You're also youth secretary of a club you boob.


----------



## alecstilleyedye (26 Jun 2018)

this place started out in 2005 and was inhabited by a few sheep and a unicycling cat. 

the popular cycling plus forum morphed into bike radar, which resulted in the mass exodus of disgruntled punters in 2007 who found this place and and had enough of a critical mass to make it their own.

other forums came and went (notably another cycling forum), and this forum has grown with the increase in interest in cycling that extends beyond the pre-2012 cycling subculture.

most social media was in its infancy in 2007, so the fact that the forum is not only surviving but thriving is testament to site owner, moderators and, more importantly, users, who keep the good ship running in good order…


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> So does this mean that cycling clubs still hold the key for access to organised group riding? Is cyclechat basically a glorified facebook group, putting like minded people in contact for discussion of the hobby and informal rides?



If I might answer your questions with two more questions...

How many members does CC have?

How many members does British Cycling have?


----------



## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

alecstilleyedye said:


> this place started out in 2005 and was inhabited by a few sheep and a unicycling cat.
> 
> the popular cycling plus forum morphed into bike radar, which resulted in the mass exodus of disgruntled punters in 2007 who found this place and and had enough of a critical mass to make it their own.
> 
> ...


Where'd the cat go?


----------



## alecstilleyedye (26 Jun 2018)

classic33 said:


> Where'd the cat go?


in charge of the velominati...


----------



## Bollo (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> 2nd, are British Cycling missing a trick by thinking that cycling and the promotion of cycling revolves around the traditional club structure while in reality it is possible that a lot more cycling activity takes place 'under the radar' organised via forums, facebook groups and other informal collections?


I’m only involved loosely with BC as a volunteer so can only speak of my experiences; I’m not claiming to be the font of all knowledge.
My biggest criticism of BC is that it’s overly bureaucratic and tends to be very inward-looking and centralised. If you asked a club secretary or chairman, they’ll likely tell you that BC doesn’t do much for them either.

BCs current social efforts are a mixed bag. Locally at least the Breeze rides are more successful than the Let’s Ride schemes. BC have their own websites to manage these and don’t seem to want to exploit channels outside of their own fiefdom.

Also, I think the change of sponsorship has hurt the BC social rides. Whatever you think about Sky, they were very good at branding and promotion. I get the feeling that the sponsorship deal with HSBC was just a sack of cash and the Pantone colours for the logo.


----------



## I like Skol (26 Jun 2018)

dan_bo said:


> You're also youth secretary of a club you boob.


But we got no yoof yet so until we do i dont think i can fairly put that position on my CV?


alecstilleyedye said:


> this place started out in 2005 and was inhabited by a few sheep and a unicycling cat.
> 
> the popular cycling plus forum morphed into bike radar, which resulted in the mass exodus of disgruntled punters in 2007 who found this place and and had enough of a critical mass to make it their own.
> 
> ...


That is just history, but does raise a good point. For a site that has been around a good while, survived storm & tempest and apparently has a healthy membership, how can it be so unknown in its area of existence (the cycling community)?


smutchin said:


> If I might answer your questions with two more questions...
> 
> How many members does CC have?
> 
> How many members does British Cycling have?


How many actively visiting and recent joiners of CC? A total number of members is pointless if most of them signed up years ago and have not been seen or heard from since? In fact, won't the forum management have to start deleting the details of dormant members now, under GDPR (not that i pretend to understand the implications of GDPR and its implementation).
I guess BC membership is annual so they know exactly how many members they have at any point, and as they are also selling you a service almost on a commercial basis it isnt really comparable.


User46386 said:


> If the forum were more well known then it might help get more women into cycling.


Is cyclechat more or less welcoming to females than other organisations or cycle groups (I am aware that this point alone is potentially a whole different thread that would descend to the depths and be locked very quickly!)? I personally see forum members as cycling enthusiasts rather than male or female (unless a member strongly identifies as a particular gender) so i am perhaps not well placed or observant enough to be a judge of this.


----------



## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

Maybe it not being known outside as well as the CTC or BC, is down to a lack of a physical presence.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> So does this mean that cycling clubs still hold the key for access to organised group riding? Is cyclechat basically a glorified facebook group, putting like minded people in contact for discussion of the hobby and informal rides?


Well, define "club", define "organized group riding".
Here in Glasgow there are several groups, some offer led rides but don't class themselves a club, some are clubs with kit and everything, but don't offer led rides, you go at your own risk.
All the clubs and groups I know use FB, a few also use Meetup.com
A forum differs from facebook because you can have a discussion in real time, with facebook you need another app for the discussion to really work, an app like messenger or what's up.
Another difference is the focus on the topic: on FB you inevitably get stuff you don't want to read about, here you can ignore it pretty efficiently, spam is taken care by us mods 
So I would say: for knowing about all cycling related stuff, CC is miles ahead of FB.


----------



## Smokin Joe (26 Jun 2018)

I think maybe different types of people are members of forums to those who join clubs, though there is of course some crossover. The magazine with the biggest club rider readership is almost certainly Cycling Weekly, yet their forum has never attracted many members despite the mag pushing it and has been dying on it's arse for nearly a decade with hardly any posts at all. In fact when I last looked a week ago it appears to have been pulled completely.


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> How many actively visiting and recent joiners of CC? A total number of members is pointless if most of them signed up years ago and have not been seen or heard from since? In fact, won't the forum management have to start deleting the details of dormant members now, under GDPR (not that i pretend to understand the implications of GDPR and its implementation).



Right. So the number of active members is considerably less than the 41,455 total. And in fact, the vast majority of posts are probably made by no more than a few hundred members. 

BC has over 125,000 members.



> I guess BC membership is annual so they know exactly how many members they have at any point, and as they are also selling you a service almost on a commercial basis it isnt really comparable.



To turn your original question on its head, what does CC have to offer BC that it needs or doesn't already have?


----------



## Smokin Joe (26 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> To turn your original question on its head, what does CC have to offer BC that it needs or doesn't already have?


A sense of humour.


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> Well, define "club", define "organized group riding".
> Here in Glasgow there are several groups, some offer led rides but don't class themselves a club, some are clubs with kit and everything, but don't offer led rides, you go at your own risk.



Indeed. BC has around 2,200 affiliated clubs but there are many clubs and groups that are not affiliated to BC - or the CTC/Cycling UK, for that matter. I can think of a few locally.

Elsewhere, ACME, AC Hackney and AC Bristol are clubs with a sizeable active membership that organise rides and social events and have their own kit, and AFAIK are not affiliated to BC (perhaps because they are not involved in racing or organising sportives, which are the only sensible reasons for a club to affiliate itself to BC).


----------



## Bollo (26 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> That's interesting. Locally to me, Breeze rides are only bookable through the Let's Ride website, which I have to say is quite appalling. When a ride is "full" it disappears from the site, which means the "champion" who is leading the ride has to be contacted by other means so that one can be put on an invisible "waiting list" in the hope that someone else drops out - due to some apparent rule about the number of people a "champion" can be responsible for (eight). Too many people want to go, and another "champion" has to be drafted in. It is all unnecessarily bureaucratic, irritating, and eventually tends to become not worth the effort for most people, just to go for a social ride. One good side effect of this is that new riders persist in their enthusiasm for it, and so Breeze does actually get more women back on their bikes, just by a very roundabout route.


Ironically I was supposed to be at a volunteers meeting this evening, but the area rep had to cancel due to illness. 

From the other side of the fence I agree completely. Easy bit first - the website is [tempted to use forum-foo to bypass swear filter] crap and only gets worse when you have to use it to organise a ride!

The website masks some more serious issues though. BC just isn't agile enough and too fond of process and hierarchy to build lasting communities of cyclists in the way that CC/FNRttC et al manages. Local successes often depend on relationships outside the formal BC channels, which may explain why Breeze is relatively successful here. Unfortunately BC seem unwilling to either break out of their top-down control-freakery or recognise that their ride initiatives could be used as a gateway to other less formal but more grassroots rides.

The 1:8 ratio is an insurance thing, although personally I like having at least two leaders on a ride no matter what the body count. I makes life a lot easier!


----------



## smutchin (26 Jun 2018)

Bollo said:


> Unfortunately BC seem unwilling to either break out of their top-down control-freakery or recognise that their ride initiatives could be used as a gateway to other less formal but more grassroots rides.



Isn't that effectively delegated out to clubs? - in much the same way that the CTC delegates out responsibility for organising rides at a local level to semi-autonomous DAs (or used to - I don't know how it works under the Cycling UK regime).

My club arranges plenty of group rides, formal and informal, including some women-only rides.


----------



## palinurus (26 Jun 2018)

alecstilleyedye said:


> other forums came and went (notably another cycling forum)



They didn't really went- they had a (mini) mass exodus also (following the 2008 smiley wars) to an alternative site hosted by a couple of the members. 5000-ish members and I still post there when I want DIY advice or when I've seen an interesting or unusual boat. Also to post pictures of my cat.


----------



## Bollo (26 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> Isn't that effectively delegated out to clubs? - in much the same way that the CTC delegates out responsibility for organising rides at a local level to semi-autonomous DAs (or used to - I don't know how it works under the Cycling UK regime).
> 
> My club arranges plenty of group rides, formal and informal, including some women-only rides.


For BC, I’m talking specifically about their LetsRide and Breeze schemes. These are really aimed at getting people back into cycling, rather than the more committed cyclists that your average affiliated road club will attract. Very very crudely, they’re the cycling equivalent of couch to 5k.

But in some ways you’ve made my point. For most people, joining a BC Guided or Breeze Ride will almost certainly be their first contact with a cycling organisation. As volunteers we should be encouraged to point people in the direction of clubs, forums etc, but it’s just not on the radar. I do it informally, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not ‘policy’.

To give an example of how unwieldy it can get, up until this year, volunteers could only lead rides on designated routes determined and risk assessed in advance and usually only in areas where BC had done a funding deal with the local authority. In my area, this meant rides in Southampton, which would put me off cycling for good. To BCs credit, they’ve recognised this is rubbish and loosened the reigns. It’s now possible to design a route yourself and become its “champion” (as for @User13710 ‘s experience). I’m going to attempt to do this later this year, but there are still many hoops to jump and it may even involve another course to make sure I don’t plan a route along the M3 or through a minefield or something.


----------



## Shut Up Legs (26 Jun 2018)

alecstilleyedye said:


> this place started out in 2005 and was inhabited by a few sheep and a unicycling cat.
> 
> the popular cycling plus forum morphed into bike radar, which resulted in the mass exodus of disgruntled punters in 2007 who found this place and and had enough of a critical mass to make it their own.
> 
> ...


----------



## FishFright (26 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> he *claimed *to have not heard of it!


Chuckle


----------



## Blue Hills (26 Jun 2018)

palinurus said:


> They didn't really went- they had a (mini) mass exodus also (following the 2008 smiley wars) to an alternative site hosted by a couple of the members. 5000-ish members and I still post there when I want DIY advice or when I've seen an interesting or unusual boat. Also to post pictures of my cat.


Don't know about the smiley wars but the another cycling forum place got wierd. I found it very nice and educational but got kicked off twice for the apparently terrible crime of not posting enough. Its successor got very poisonous - I well remember the notorious Victoria Pendleton thread of hypocrisy/black comedy where the offendor was one of the mods! After that I pretty much departed to the land of sanity but like you post for DIY tips, where folk are very helpful. And there are some nice helpful folk on tech and gps issues. Avoid the politics bit if you don't want to be sucked into the tiny tiny vortex.


----------



## Drago (26 Jun 2018)

I'm not on any other cycling forums. I'm a CUK member but don't frequent theirs - their forum makes our politics forum seem like nuns cuddling puppies and orphans in comparison.


----------



## fatjel (27 Jun 2018)

I was a member of a club when I lived in Kent , entirely for social fun rides as I knew nobody when I moved there.
Out of 50 or 60 I rode with regularly only one ever posted here and he seems not to these days
The club forum was just not used. 
So maybe the two rarely mix..

Perhaps its cos I am a computer nerd who cycles

I thought BC was for racers and discounts


----------



## Levo-Lon (27 Jun 2018)

I discovered Cycle Chat via an mtb forum.
One of the members kept copy pasting odd threads where he'd had arguments with some members.
Politics ect ... He left CC as most do after they realize its very left biased..and nasty, though compared to some forums its tame.

If you google cycling forums there's a few comments relating to CC being a troll forum.
I'm not sure this is the case so much now but i think it used to be.

I've never seen a CC jersey while out and about ?
I dont have any interest in a cycling club ,so a forum works for me if i need any help with cycling needs.


----------



## Blue Hills (27 Jun 2018)

I think you are having your perceptions proved meta.

It has got better, far better, despite the efforts of some, of late though.

I think I discovered cyclechat through a top sported by the blue one and have stuck around despite some undoubted nastiness and, yes, trolling at times, because it is genuinely useful and there are some nice helpful folk.

I do find that most folk are unaware of it, or other forums, even folk who are clearly very keen cyclists.

Re the top which brought me here, I'm not usually one for "branded" tops but must say that I don"t really like the design of the top. Time for a classier more subtle redesign?

So i stick with cyclechat. May it continue to prosper and be healthy so that I can recommend it to folk without worrying that I am sending them to the quicksand/cesspit.

Declaration - am a liberal leftie but old enough to know how that can be misused.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

……. and getting back on topic. What all/some of this excursion shows is that cyclechat is discussed outside of cyclechat and people are not just led here by google.

Unless I am mistaken, British Cycling is at an advantage as it is, at least partly, a government funded and endorsed body and linked to the UK Olympic and national cycling sport teams. They are the 'official' face of UK cycling? Surely they are failing their remit (if it is indeed part of their reasons for existence) to increase cycling participation if they fail to engage with modern/current forms of cycling communication & discussion but instead cling stubbornly to a dated and rigid club framework that goes back many decades but actually alienates and discourages many would be cyclists from getting involved or having a go?


----------



## TVC (27 Jun 2018)

meta lon said:


> I discovered Cycle Chat via an mtb forum.
> One of the members kept copy pasting odd threads where he'd had arguments with some members.
> Politics ect ... He left CC as most do after they realize its very left biased..and nasty, though compared to some forums its tame.
> 
> ...


Any examples?


----------



## dave r (27 Jun 2018)

I've been here since 2007 when I was laid up after a crash, and have been here since, I've done some forum rides and met some members. I'm also an ex club rider, a member of YACF, and on facebook, I joined YACF just after I joined here. This place has mellowed over the years. But as others have found, I've noticed this place isn't well known out in the wide world.


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)

I used to be a lurker on YACF, but not A member. Last year I watched as a new member signed up, and in their introductory post unfortunately mentioned they were a member of CUK. Cue Phlip Bedstead, who let forth a tirade at the poor feller over CUK. The blokes second and final post was to tell him to Foxtrot Oscar, and ask that his newly created account be deleted. That put me off even lurking there, so CC is now my only online cycling presence.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> That put me off even lurking there, so CC is now my only online cycling presence.


I remember when we nearly got shut of you but some muppet called you back Beetlejuice style @Drago @Drago @Drago! I hope whoever it was are proud of themselves for that.....


----------



## ianrauk (27 Jun 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I think I discovered cyclechat through a top sported by the blue one
> Re the top which brought me here, I'm not usually one for "branded" tops but must say that I don"t really like the design of the top. Time for a classier more subtle redesign?




There's been 3 Cycle Chat Jersey designs.
The first one was blue with a black variation (such fine figures of men here)






The second one was a darker blue




The third (latest) more blue





I still have one of each the original blue and black ones. They are my main commuting tops.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

meta lon said:


> I discovered Cycle Chat via an mtb forum.
> One of the members kept copy pasting odd threads where he'd had arguments with some members.
> Politics ect ... He left CC as most do after they realize its very left biased..and nasty, though compared to some forums its tame.
> 
> ...





TVC said:


> Any examples?


I couldn't resist....







https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32836-Cycling-forums which suggests trying the other hit from google - www.londoncyclist.co.uk/10-best-cycling-forums which strangely fails to list cyclechat in its 'top 10' but this is corrected in the comments following the list, including recent comments from current cyclechat members.... 

Most of the forums receive praise and criticism so it is unfair to mention cyclechat as being singularly mentioned as a troll, abusive or disagreeable environment.


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> I remember when we nearly got shut of you but some muppet called you back Beetlejuice style @Drago @Drago @Drago! I hope whoever it was are proud of themselves for that.....



I cannot tell a lie. It was my old buddy User.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Most of the forums receive praise and criticism so it is unfair to mention cyclechat as being singularly mentioned as a troll, abusive or disagreeable environment.



The comments on that coffee forum suggest CC is perceived somewhat differently by outsiders than how certain CC members imagine.


----------



## Salty seadog (27 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> We're definitely the Google #1 for discussion of cycling and Fray Bentos.
> However we only get #2 spot for* "cycling nobbers"*
> 
> I go to yacf for audax info.



We were number 1 but then @marmian stopped posting. Oddly at the same time as @User14044. Alter egos?

Come back Rocky.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I go to yacf for audax info.



YACF is the de facto first choice for online discussion of audax matters - not least because several of the AUK committee and some very experienced audaxers are members. It's much more useful as a source of info than the official AUK forum.

The quality of discussion on pro racing is much better here though.

I'd never heard of wheelsuckers.cc before seeing that list... Just had a look at it and I'm immediately put off by the horrible interface.


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)

Aye, that coffee forum chap seems to think this place is full of Daily Mail readers. I thought I was the only one, and even then it's only because I like their ads for slippers and elasticated slacks.


----------



## classic33 (27 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> The comments on that coffee forum suggest CC is perceived somewhat differently by outsiders than how certain CC members imagine.


He wasn't an outsider though, he posted on here.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

classic33 said:


> He wasn't an outsider though, he posted on here.



That response is a perfect example of the pettiness he describes.


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> That response is a perfect example of the pettiness he describes.


He also mentions the following that he would like from a forum;

_"not being a bunch of racist daily mail readers would also be good




"
_
Which puts meta's statement that;


meta lon said:


> He left CC as most do after they realize its very left biased..and nasty,


in a slightly different light, maybe his buddy is one of the "racist daily mail readers" and didn't like being challenged and that's why he left?


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

#notallcyclechatters


----------



## Venod (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> So does this mean that cycling clubs still hold the key for access to organised group riding?



My club with a lot of members upset a lot of people last year, with the effect that membership is now down on last years numbers.

We have regular Saturday morning rides of different distances and speeds to accommodate all members there are 4 routes done in rotation weekly, I for one am not a fan of these routes as they are roads I ride a lot anyway.

A few members started posting alternative Saturday rides on the club facebook group, these were popular with riders, but non members were riding, this was OK with everybody on the ride, but the club officials sad it was wrong, if posted on a club facebook group they said it was only open to club members as this would cause problems with BCF insurance if there was an accident/incident, so they banned members posting alternative rides, this to me seemed wrong, all we are doing is trying to enjoy riding our bikes and who gives a thought to BCF when heading out the door.

The result was several good members left the club.
A Strava group was created called Cycling Not Politics where people post rides.
Rides are also organised through friends on Facebook.

All because BCF advised that non members shouldn't be allowed on rides advertised in a BCF affiliated club Facebook Club page.

The very restrictive swear filter on here would crash if was to type what I thought of BCF and the club officials who worship it.


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)

User said:


> Don't blame me - I was trying to perform an exorcism.
> 
> View attachment 416568



Brilliant! Just inhaled half a can of Pepsi Max laughing at That!


----------



## Nigel-YZ1 (27 Jun 2018)

I mentioned CycleChat to a couple of cyclists I was talking to a few weeks ago. There was a strange silence, and in the background tumbleweed scurried across the deserted background in the breeze like a lost soul searching forever for it's purpose...


----------



## ColinJ (27 Jun 2018)

Nigel-YZ1 said:


> I mentioned CycleChat to a couple of cyclists I was talking to a few weeks ago. There was a strange silence, and in the background tumbleweed scurried across the deserted background in the breeze like a lost soul searching forever for it's purpose...


But you converted them and they are now members ...?


----------



## Pale Rider (27 Jun 2018)

I'm going with the general consensus of not very well known - judged on my experience.

CycleChat is relatively small, most new threads attract 20 or 30 replies and a hundred or two views before interest wanes.

As a comparison, I see that lass who posted the horse vid on Facebook has had 5.5m views and, I think, tens of thousands of comments.

The difference is night and day, and I'm guessing those sort of numbers while high even for Facebook, will be repeated from time to time.

One could argue about the pervading political ethos of CycleChat, it seems to me the response from the regulars to any given topic is wearisomely predictable.

But what puts new browsers off joining and staying is the cretinous spats that pervade so many threads.

It's bordering on embarrassing that we cannot discuss helmets in a straightforward and open manner.

I'm bound to remember my threads more than others, and my car service thread was one of the busiest we've had recently.

Someone threw a tantrum in that, nothing to do with politics or religion, it was over the weighty matter of the price of a radial.

Anyone reading that thread is not going to want to associate themselves with us.

CycleChat does appear to be robust in that there is a hard core of regular posters, which itself is bound to be evolving.

But the persistent niggling all over the boards effectively caps numbers.


----------



## Gravity Aided (27 Jun 2018)

I came over here in 2012, as Bike Forums became too offensive in a few threads, and I liked the level of discourse here. I appreciate the knowledge and subtle humor, as well as the helpful attitude this forum has, as opposed to others. I still drop in on BF from time to time, but mostly about local things and such.


----------



## Nigel-YZ1 (27 Jun 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I'm going with the general consensus of not very well known - judged on my experience.
> 
> CycleChat is relatively small, most new threads attract 20 or 30 replies and a hundred or two views before interest wanes.
> 
> ...



Well said.

I don't respond to many threads as I can predict the result, or I don't want to be labelled.


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> One could argue about the pervading political ethos of CycleChat, it seems to me the response from the regulars to any given topic is wearisomely predictable.
> 
> But what puts new browsers off joining and staying is the cretinous spats that pervade so many threads.
> 
> ...


What do you think could be done about that, a change of direction, a change of moderation style. How's it been going over the road with your style of management, rocking?


----------



## Pale Rider (27 Jun 2018)

Mugshot said:


> What do you think could be done about that, a change of direction, a change of moderation style. How's it been going over the road with your style of management, rocking?





Pale Rider said:


> But the persistent niggling all over the boards effectively caps numbers.


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> .


That good huh?


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> I'm going with the general consensus of not very well known - judged on my experience.
> 
> CycleChat is relatively small, most new threads attract 20 or 30 replies and a hundred or two views before interest wanes.
> 
> ...


Which cycling forums can boast numbers akin to Facebook since you seem keen to make a comparison?


----------



## ColinJ (27 Jun 2018)

I forgot to mention that I know quite a lot of people who DO know about CycleChat and who visit as guests, but don't want to become members. They use Facebook for organising rides.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

User3094 said:


> If there weren't contradictions all over this place then this forum would bore me very very quickly.



No it wouldn't.


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> It seems that any response that isn't 100% agreement counts as "niggling", which is all we need to know really.


Exactly this!
Trace back through the thread and have a look at who it was that started this particular line of discussion and who it was they blamed, and it's the same every single time. That's the "niggling" The continual passive aggressive posting style of some members desperately seeking a way to belittle and goad those members that they have a different view to yet who they lack the wit to engage with.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

Pale Rider said:


> Someone threw a tantrum in that, nothing to do with politics or religion, it was over the weighty matter of the price of a radial.





Pale Rider said:


> But the persistent niggling all over the boards effectively caps numbers.


Well done for demonstrating your point so perfectly.


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)

Just chill dudes. Peace, love and cycling.


----------



## Heltor Chasca (27 Jun 2018)

Wait...

...there is life outside of CC?

Well I’ll be blown.


----------



## Mugshot (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Well done for demonstrating your point so perfectly.


Sorry @I like Skol your thread is being side tracked and derailed for nefarious reasons and I'm not helping.


----------



## Tin Pot (27 Jun 2018)

Not many people use Internet forums, full stop.

Not as many people use the internet as some would like to believe.

On a side note about social media, if you think anonymity and moderation are evil, join a Facebook group.

I joined The Ironman Journey. It was unbelievable what people would say to each other, and there’s no swear filter either.


----------



## Crackle (27 Jun 2018)

I must admit I don't mention CC to people, it's my dirty little secret! It's quite a thriving forum as cycling forums go, I think and is pitched just right for me. It is a community, I was forced to consider all this during my recent sojourn as a mod. I do think many of us become inured to the niggles that go on between people and in certain subjects which is something that isn't always particularly welcoming to people joining, nor understood. 

I miss people when they don't post, in fact I'm wondering about the whereabouts of one member now who hasn't been on since Feb and of course many of us have met, I hope to meet more but I don't think many people in general use forums like this and since 2012, I think cycling numbers have been falling again, which affects this and other forums and shops.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

User said:


> Get your arse down here in September then...


I think you may have linked to the wrong thing there. Started the weekend early have we?


----------



## Crackle (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> I think you may have linked to the wrong thing there. Started the weekend early have we?


I knew what he meant, although I did read Pale Rider's post twice to make sure I hadn't missed something else.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

User said:


> Oops! Duly amended...
> 
> ...and no - as I have to drive down to Salisbury this evening.


He can't do that I'm afraid, he is cycling to Scarborough so stop trying to poach my riders


----------



## Crackle (27 Jun 2018)

Yeah, my reasons for probably not being able to make that date haven't changed, unfortunately.


----------



## I like Skol (27 Jun 2018)

User said:


> I think you'll find, as I posted the Pie-cnic thread first, _you_ are trying to poach _my_ potential drinkers...


I'll take your 23rd Feb 2018 and raise one 29th Jan 2018. Your persistent niggling is starting to become tiresome...…


----------



## Drago (27 Jun 2018)




----------



## roadrash (27 Jun 2018)




----------



## Tim Hall (27 Jun 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Wait...
> 
> ...there is life outside of CC?
> 
> Well I’ll be blown.


Would it be niggly of me to say I thought the phrase was "Well I'll be blowed"?


----------



## Tim Hall (27 Jun 2018)

User said:


> Depends on who he’s talking to....


"I've been well blown", that kind of thing?


----------



## Bollo (27 Jun 2018)

I like Skol said:


> He can't do that I'm afraid, he is cycling to Scarborough so stop trying to poach my riders


Wait a minute?! You actually WANT Crax to ride with you?!?!!


----------



## Ciar (27 Jun 2018)

I came across CC and BikeRadar at the same time, when i was looking to start commuting into work. posted a few times over on BikeRadar but CC is my go to cycling forum.

in all honestly as i am a MTB rider above anything else, i should really frequent pink bike or single track, but i actually enjoy this forum, even though it's full of lycra clad people 

Generally i ride with two different MTB groups from time to time or with a couple of mates, it seems they prefer the group aspect and don't really want the club or membership issues.


----------



## Dayvo (27 Jun 2018)

Ciar said:


> in all honestly as i am a MTB rider above anything else, i should really frequent pink bike or single track, but i actually enjoy this forum, *even though it's full of lycra clad people*



You'll see the light and come round eventually.


----------



## Rooster1 (27 Jun 2018)

It's prominence will be down to how well it does in google search. Sometimes when I am looking to solve an issue Cyclechat will be on page 1 (the holy grail), other times it is no-where to be seen.


----------



## Alan O (27 Jun 2018)

User13710 said:


> That's interesting. Locally to me, Breeze rides are only bookable through the Let's Ride website, which I have to say is quite appalling. When a ride is "full" it disappears from the site, which means the "champion" who is leading the ride has to be contacted by other means so that one can be put on an invisible "waiting list" in the hope that someone else drops out - due to some apparent rule about the number of people a "champion" can be responsible for (eight). Too many people want to go, and another "champion" has to be drafted in. It is all unnecessarily bureaucratic, irritating, and eventually tends to become not worth the effort for most people, just to go for a social ride. One good side effect of this is that new riders persist in their enthusiasm for it, and so Breeze does actually get more women back on their bikes, just by a very roundabout route.


Sorry if any of this has been covered by posts in the six pages I haven't read, but a few thoughts from me...

I'm a regular with Let's Ride (guided and social rides), and I know a couple of my local Breeze leaders (though for genetic reasons I can't join their rides). I also have a fair bit of experience of software and web stuff, and I think the problems you describe are really because the site software is very simple and intended to be low-maintenance. It doesn't look like it sets cookies, and you can't stay logged in... the site software is primitive, to be sure, but I think that is the problem rather than any intentional bureaucracy.

But as for limiting the number of people a single leader can be responsible for, no, I very much disagree that that is "unnecessarily bureaucratic". If one leader was allowed to lead 50 people and there was an accident, you can be damn sure there would be people complaining!

I think Let's Ride is a great *free* resource, and the ride leaders I know are dedicated individuals who put a lot of personal effort into helping get people out on bikes. And they get almost nothing material in return - just a "Ride Leader" jersey and some discounts, I think.

And I actually find it a very easy resource to use, site wrinkles notwithstanding - it's greatly contributed to my cycling miles this year, and it's found me a new social circle.

I suggest you add your favourite leaders to your list of friends, and perhaps join any groups they're leading, and you should be able to keep in touch with oversubscribed rides easily enough. I've done that, and I don't really miss anything.


----------



## Globalti (27 Jun 2018)

Assuming a population of about 60 million, 99 percent of the population is completely ignorant about cycling and of cyclists I bet 99 percent are completely ignorant about CC so that makes, er, 600,000 who know a bit about cycling and 6,000 of them who know about CC. Seems about right.


----------



## Ciar (27 Jun 2018)

Dayvo said:


> You'll see the light and come round eventually.



 not with my body shape!


----------



## Pat "5mph" (27 Jun 2018)

Afnug said:


> All because BCF advised that non members shouldn't be allowed on rides advertised in a BCF affiliated club Facebook Club page.


The Belles on Bikes are affiliated with the institution previously known as CTC  (they gave us money for basic training to set up the groups)
We advertise our rides wherever we like, we lead groups as large or small as we feel comfortable with, we do our own routes, we don't take money apart from the smaller Belles group that don't have a sponsor to pay for the annual insurance, they ask fo maybe a fiver a year, if that.
You wear what you want, you ride any bike, if you can't make it through the ride we will help you to find your way home (indeed we plan the routes with lots of escape points), if we are able, the ride "leaders" will help with mechanicals.
A while back BC wanted to take us over to be Breeze, saying they had a million pound to invest.... they wanted us to wear a uniform!!! They said we are not allowed to fix punctures for others!
We told them to jump on their bike here in Glasgow, but some other groups from the rest of Scotland were glad to ride under their banner.
Sorry for the thread derailment @I like Skol 




ColinJ said:


> But you converted them and they are now members ...?


I converted a few 

On the by, some on here are perennially complaining about the forum, yet they post almost daily


----------



## Moderators (27 Jun 2018)

We have been told that another forum - YACF - has this rule: 

_"Special rule (and this really is a rule): derogatory or strongly opinionated posts and threads about other Internet forums or their administrators will be moved or deleted. We do not normally post a "moved topic" message in these cases."_

This rule is on their registration agreement.

It would be good if we also extend the same courtsey in return, not just to them, but in regard to other forums. We know that there has been previous disagreements in the past, but let us leave that as history now. 
Thank you.


----------



## srw (27 Jun 2018)

Globalti said:


> Assuming a population of about 60 million, 99 percent of the population is completely ignorant about cycling and of cyclists I bet 99 percent are completely ignorant about CC so that makes, er, 600,000 who know a bit about cycling and 6,000 of them who know about CC. Seems about right.


Except that getting on for half the adult population cycle at least occasionally, one in six every month and 2 million people every day. And 42% of the population over 5 owns a bike.

So, to a first approximation, everyone in the country either rides or knows someone who rides quite well.


----------



## Alan O (27 Jun 2018)

Moderators said:


> We have been told that another forum - YACF - has this rule:
> 
> _"Special rule (and this really is a rule): derogatory or strongly opinionated posts and threads about other Internet forums or their administrators will be moved or deleted. We do not normally post a "moved topic" message in these cases."_
> 
> ...


I've worked professionally moderating an internet forum as part of a wider job, not related to cycling (I still work for the same company, but in a different role). A key part of that role was treating competitors with respect and appreciating that all views and approaches are valuable - we surely benefit by learning from all approaches and all opinions. 

And, in my humble view, I think that is exactly the way things should be handled here too - and I'm very encouraged to see that's the way things are, thank you.


----------



## Smokin Joe (27 Jun 2018)

srw said:


> Except that getting on for half the adult population cycle at least occasionally, one in six every month and 2 million people every day. And 42% of the population over 5 owns a bike.
> 
> So, to a first approximation, everyone in the country either rides or knows someone who rides quite well.


That's true, but forums in general are very much a minority pursuit what ever the subject is. Even the most popular motoring forums have only a relative handful of members despite the number of car owners.


----------



## smutchin (27 Jun 2018)

Globalti said:


> 6,000 of them who know about CC



Membership at the time of posting stands at 41,459 - it's there on the front page, no need to guess. 

That's an increase of 4 on yesterday's membership.


----------



## Globalti (28 Jun 2018)

A better jersey might help - I have the old CC jersey but TBH it looks a bit.... naff. How about a modern take on the classic road jersey, with a horizontal chest stripe containing the Cycle Chat name? I don't wear mine because it just looks old-fashioned, although ironically I'm suggesting an old-fashioned style. But you know what I mean.


----------



## Venod (28 Jun 2018)

Ciar said:


> in all honestly as i am a MTB rider above anything else, i should really frequent pink bike or single track, but i actually enjoy this forum, even though it's full of lycra clad people



You can wear lycra on an MTB you know.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2018)

Wasn't the FNRttC started as a CTC thing rather than a forum thing? The first time I took part in one, I don't think I was aware of CC at the time.


----------



## Bollo (28 Jun 2018)

Alan O said:


> Sorry if any of this has been covered by posts in the six pages I haven't read, but a few thoughts from me...
> 
> I'm a regular with Let's Ride (guided and social rides), and I know a couple of my local Breeze leaders (though for genetic reasons I can't join their rides). I also have a fair bit of experience of software and web stuff, and I think the problems you describe are really because the site software is very simple and intended to be low-maintenance. It doesn't look like it sets cookies, and you can't stay logged in... the site software is primitive, to be sure, but I think that is the problem rather than any intentional bureaucracy.
> 
> ...


I've covered some of it upthread as I'm a Lets Ride volunteer, including some of the issues with the website and the bureaucracy. I conscious that this is maybe derailing the thread, so I might start one about the pros and cons of the various ride initiatives, but not this minute.

FWIW, the Letsride site sets three cookies on login; I'm guessing an authentication+session cookie and one each from double-click (activity tracking) and youtube (video on the front page).


----------



## JtB (28 Jun 2018)

CC is well known by my family members due to all the “rubbish jokes” (as they call them) that I forward on from the “Any Good Jokes?” thread.


----------



## Drago (28 Jun 2018)

CC is famous the World over you for the quality of its fish puns. Thats Cod's honest truth.


----------



## Bollo (28 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> And you can wear baggies on a road bike


That's not even funny 'trousers!


----------



## Heltor Chasca (28 Jun 2018)

Afnug said:


> You can wear lycra on an MTB you know.





Dogtrousers said:


> And you can wear baggies on a road bike
> 
> Going back to the OP, it was organised rides that led me to CC. I was introduced to the FNRttC by a friend (dunno where he heard about it) became hooked, and found that this was its online home.
> 
> ...





Bollo said:


> That's not even funny 'trousers!



Just wondering what @numbnuts would suggest wearing on a bike...


----------



## fatjel (28 Jun 2018)

Out of interest how many here post on forums that are not cycling related ?

I'm quite keen on forums generally 

Is it possible that the same few posters are on every forum?


----------



## Andrew_P (28 Jun 2018)

Ranked 133k in the UK according to Alexa.

The best keywords for Cc is what bought me as newbie cyclist here looking for wtf is 700c in real money. 

www.alexa.com/siteinfo/cyclechat.net

I think site had some luck breaks I also think it is lucky it has members prepared to help and those happy to organise some informal rides, I am not entirely sure that's ever really appreciated, but then should it be?

Not sure how you can relate it to BC two completely different types of organisations.

I would be one of those who doesn't quite feel the same about cc soon after the funding drive then the subsequent changes and what felt like CC making life uncomfortable for some nembers it became apparent that it was more business than a club. Which for so.e reason CC felt like up to that moment. I still look in post etc but less because if I am honest a lot of the cycling stuff bores me to tears. Even the other cycling forums the non cycling stuff is where the quantity of posts are.

Hence I cannot see the comparison between the BC and CC any club like activities are organised by members not the site. Kudos to those that do it.


----------



## Ciar (28 Jun 2018)

Afnug said:


> You can wear lycra on an MTB you know.



baggies all the way


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I remember reading comments on another forum saying "Don't start discussions on that here, it belongs there" or some such at the time.



Come to think of it, that may well be exactly how I discovered CC.


----------



## roadrash (28 Jun 2018)

Andrew_P said:


> I would be one of those who doesn't quite feel the same about cc soon after the funding drive then the subsequent changes and what felt like CC making life uncomfortable for some nembers it became apparent that it was more business than a club.



IM not looking for an argument, im genuinely curious as to what way cyclechat made life uncomfortable for some members


----------



## Blue Hills (28 Jun 2018)

ianrauk said:


> There's been 3 Cycle Chat Jersey designs.
> The first one was blue with a black variation (such fine figures of men here)
> View attachment 416556
> 
> ...


Ah didn't know there were so many - last one maybe a bit better.

Thanks for the useful info - clearly cyclechat's continued health is down to your Monday to Friday rolling billboard.

all the best


----------



## Milkfloat (28 Jun 2018)

Andrew_P said:


> I would be one of those who doesn't quite feel the same about cc soon after the funding drive then the subsequent changes and what felt like CC making life uncomfortable for some members it became apparent that it was more business than a club. Which for so.e reason CC felt like up to that moment. I still look in post etc but less because if I am honest a lot of the cycling stuff bores me to tears. Even the other cycling forums the non cycling stuff is where the quantity of posts are.



Continuing OT, I cannot disagree more. If this place was being run as a business then Sean is a terrible business man. To me CC is like cycling itself, a mixture of many people from all walks of life who just happen to cycle. Yes some of the threads annoy the hell out of me with the aggression and 'playing the (wo)man not the ball mentality', but with such a broad spectrum of tastes it is highly likely that people will disagree. If this place was run as a business the forum would be incredibly bland with stacks of advertising and fake reviews.


----------



## smutchin (28 Jun 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> the Benevolent Dictator



Talking of whom, he was one of the characters who made me want to join CC in the first place. I miss his contributions, along with a few others who have left.


----------



## Donger (28 Jun 2018)

When I looked up Cyclechat when on holiday in France, the first result that came up was a site concerning menstrual cycles in cats!


----------



## hatler (28 Jun 2018)

smutchin said:


> Wasn't the FNRttC started as a CTC thing rather than a forum thing? The first time I took part in one, I don't think I was aware of CC at the time.


It was a Benevolent Dictator thing and he was a CTC member (and councillor). The rides were initially mentioned on a long lost forum called acf which is how I first found out about them. When that disintegrated many people went to yacf, many came here. The BD came here. Hence here being the forum home of FNRttC.


----------



## raleighnut (29 Jun 2018)

I only found Cyclechat by accident.


----------



## User10119 (29 Jun 2018)

hatler said:


> It was a Benevolent Dictator thing and he was a CTC member (and councillor). The rides were initially mentioned on a long lost forum called acf which is how I first found out about them. When that disintegrated many people went to yacf, many came here. The BD came here. Hence here being the forum home of FNRttC.


And generally speaking the YACFers aimed to respect the thinking that the planning and information about the FNRttC should be kept and curated in one place to avoid confusion, apart from anything else, so whilst we've alway had some chatter about the rides over there there would pretty much always have been someone piping up to say 'and the definitive source for information is over that way ------> with a link to here and the blog*. That's how I wandered in here, following the tail lights of the Fridays up the road...


*and the subsequent regular (if occasional) 'what is this mudguard/cake/etc tyranny how dare they infringe my human rights thusly' n00b comments from people who went and read that and came back to whinge would generally be fairly firmly squished.


----------



## Drago (29 Jun 2018)

My online presence here feels more chilled, and I've made some great friends. Hell, Dave R has even started to stalk me cos I'm so nice!


----------



## I like Skol (29 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> I've made some great friends. He'll, Dave R has been started to stalk me cos I'm so nice!


That's a great line for the 'Autocorrect gone mad' thread right there. What did @Drago really intend to say?


----------



## Pat "5mph" (29 Jun 2018)

*Mod Note:*
Comments about former members, either de-registered or that stopped visiting,
are not in the spirit of CC.
Therefore I will delete a few of the previous posts in this thread.

Also see our Guidelines if you're unsure of the contents of your posts.
*Conduct *– Please refrain from inflammatory and defamatory comments as well as flaming, taunting, stalking, bullying, trolling and general disrespect. Personal attacks, aggressive messages, and passive-aggressive behaviour are not acceptable.

Thank you.


----------



## Drago (29 Jun 2018)

^^^ See, I can dig that. A perfectly reasonable, well explained intervention by a Mod, an example of how it should be done (and no, I'm not arriss licking, but Pat seems to understand that if you treat people like children they'll behave like children, and has broken the cycle.)


----------



## I like Skol (29 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> and has broken the cycle.)


I know a forum where you might be able to ask about fixing that, and chatting about related topics...….


----------



## saoirse50 (30 Jun 2018)

[QUOTE 5294221, member: 10119"]And generally speaking the YACFers aimed to respect the thinking that the planning and information about the FNRttC should be kept and curated in one place to avoid confusion, apart from anything else, so whilst we've alway had some chatter about the rides over there there would pretty much always have been someone piping up to say 'and the definitive source for information is over that way ------> with a link to here and the blog*. That's how I wandered in here, following the tail lights of the Fridays up the road...


*and the subsequent regular (if occasional) 'what is this mudguard/cake/etc tyranny how dare they infringe my human rights thusly' n00b comments from people who went and read that and came back to whinge would generally be fairly firmly squished.[/QUOTE]
I think that’s how I got here, via FNRttC. And the rumour I heard was that there was a touch of disapproval from some about the way that YACF was born. And that’s why CC became the go to site for FNRttC stuff. I joined acf in the middle of smileygate and hadn’t a clue what was going on. Anyway, it all seems so far away and long ago now.


----------



## Blue Hills (30 Jun 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> he by, some on here are perennially complaining about the forum, yet they post almost daily



That's not hard to understand or an unreasonable position pat. I assume that they generally like the place/find it useful but have concerns about some aspects of it, now or in the recent past, which, quite rightly in my view, they think it fair to express. To nudge things in the right direction.

Otherwise you are advocating that folk who criticise aspects of their society/country, should just leave.


----------



## Salty seadog (30 Jun 2018)

I'm with Groucho on clubs.


----------



## Bollo (1 Jul 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> Coming back to the OP, and away from re-airing old grievances about forum management ...
> 
> Are BC missing a trick in thinking cycling and its promotion revolves around clubs? I'd say not. There's a difference between formal and informal organisation, and plenty of room for both. If BC got involved in loose internet organised cycling it would by definition become more formal because they will bring along standards, training, insurance, etc. And bingo! it would cease to be under the radar.


And I’d agree. They serve different sets of people with different expectations. I’m not surprised at @User13710 s experiences on the Breeze rides. Anyone who’s a FNRttC or other CC ride regular would find the whole BC ride management ‘system’ fussy and restrictive. But for anyone who’s returning to cycling or otherwise doesn’t have the confidence to jump on a bike and just ride, they’re a useful option. 

My own rough analogy is like going on holiday. Some people are happy to jump on a plane (generally Lone Ranger riders like myself), some people like to go on holiday with an extended gang of friends (FNRttC, CC rides) while others like a package and to follow a tour guide with a flag (Let’s Ride etc). That’s not a value judgement - occasionally I listen in on the tour guides in Winchester and learn something new- but they all service different markets.

In defence of the Breeze and Lets Ride rides, I think BC are recognising that the vibe needs to relax. As I said before, this year they’re opening up the routes and they’ve now dropped the warm-up/competence session at the start of the ride.

To answer some of @User13710 ‘s other issues, the junction management stuff, with a rear leader giving it beans to get to the front, is fine in theory but you often have to be more pragmatic in practice. The main reason I prefer two ride leaders for a group is that local conditions are lumpy and any size group usually breaks up when heading uphill. Having a rider stick with the back-markers makes sure they’re ok, keeps them feeling part of the ride and also stops them worrying that they’re “holding people up”.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (1 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> That's not hard to understand or an unreasonable position pat. I assume that they generally like the place/find it useful but have concerns about some aspects of it, now or in the recent past, which, quite rightly in my view, they think it fair to express. To nudge things in the right direction.
> 
> Otherwise you are advocating that folk who criticise aspects of their society/country, should just leave.


This is a valid point you're making @Blue Hills.
You've got me down to a tee, indeed I left a country because I didn't like most aspects of their society 
Of course I'm not advocating members to leave CC country.
Elaborating a bit, I was meaning that a little grumbling from time to time is fine, a little grumbling followed by some mature, constructive, realistic suggestions of improvement is great.
While a continuous moaning over the same issues without bringing any input to the solution of the perceived problem is, to me, a waste of time.



User said:


> *_Ahem_*
> Leading by example are we?


@User has been a wee bit naughty, twisting my words by mixing up quotes of different posts of mine.
Pat "5mph" said: ↑
he by, some on here are perennially complaining about the forum, yet they post almost daily 
You knew I was referring to the ancient feuds "she's a lefty, he's a righty, they post in the cafe, usual suspects, those others gang up, etc,"
In no way I was disparaging any current or previous forum members, you quoting the rules at me is a bit of a cheek.
This thread was steering towards serious criticism of members not here anymore to answer for themselves, one would think you of all members would appreciate the moderation before it got out of hand.

We are now back on topic, thank you all.
This thread is really interesting in highlighting how we perceive different cycling organizations according to our style of riding.
When we had our Breeze meeting and training the Glasgow Belles were reluctant to adopts the Breeze system.
All of us were already riding for transport and leisure, had done a few training courses, had initial support from Cycling UK (then CTC), some of us were leading rides with 20 participants for 50 miles along our canals.
We did not see the need of a "new protector" so to speak, their rules and regulations were a killjoy to us.
While some smaller groups from Edinburgh and from villages in the north of Scotland welcomed the extra support, the FB page to ask questions.
I agree with @Bollo's and @User13710's comments.
My most useful ride leader training came not from actual training, but from going on Freewheel North's led rides (a local cycling charity social enterprise).
Their leaders come from a variety of backgrounds, vary local routes according to the ability of the group, are very clued up on hazards without making you feel you're riding in the army's team lol.


----------



## Blue Hills (1 Jul 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> This is a valid point you're making @Blue Hills.
> You've got me down to a tee, indeed I left a country because I didn't like most aspects of their society
> Of course I'm not advocating members to leave CC country.
> Elaborating a bit, I was meaning that a little grumbling from time to time is fine, a little grumbling followed by some mature, constructive, realistic suggestions of improvement is great.
> While a continuous moaning over the same issues without bringing any input to the solution of the perceived problem is, to me, a waste of time.


Thanks for the reply Pat - to maybe clarify. I wasn't actually moaning pat, more celebrating that Cyclechat does seem to have improved a fair lot of late. And folks may now and again echo this. Hoping that it stays that way.

The other topic you mention - I know a fair bit about that place - would be a very interesting thread in itself though I fear wouldn't mean much to most folk and may shatter their illusions/holiday plans. Have come across a fair few folk like you in Britain - the three that spring to mind are curiously all women - one met bumbling around London, another on a London walk, another on a London Cycling Campaign group ride. None had plans to return - far from it. Hell it might seem to a casual observer that the babies/toddlers are leaving - not many of them around.

On the main topic, it is exceptionally rare that I meet anyone who confesses to being a member of ANY cycling forum, unless I already know their guilty secret.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (1 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> On the main topic, it is exceptionally rare that I meet anyone who confesses to being a member of ANY cycling forum, unless I already know their guilty secret.


Unless they wear the jersey! 
@mcshroom has a cracking one from YACF.


----------



## Bollo (1 Jul 2018)

Pat "5mph" said:


> We are now back on topic, thank you all.
> This thread is really interesting in highlighting how we perceive different cycling organizations according to our style of riding.
> When we had our Breeze meeting and training the Glasgow Belles were reluctant to adopts the Breeze system.
> All of us were already riding for transport and leisure, had done a few training courses, had initial support from Cycling UK (then CTC), some of us were leading rides with 20 participants for 50 miles along our canals.
> ...


I sounds like you almost certainly made the right decision to stay out of the BC universe. Ultimately you've got to ask what was in it for them. Somewhere up the line BC have to justify the expenditure for these schemes and ready-made groups like yours would be a quick win in terms of numbers and participation. For you, it's a judgement call about the value of the training, support and publicity. Of these, personally I think they do the first well, but support and publicity are mixed at best.

The BC training I received was very good but the most useful bits weren't the mechanics of the BC system. There was a lot of emphasis on the other softer skills that are needed to manage a group of maybe nervous, mixed ability, mixed age, possibly shy riders. This was about the time BC was starting to suffer from the bad publicity around sexism in their elite programme, which may have focused the minds of the trainers. The most useful discussion we had was around the sometimes undesirable dynamics that can develop between participants (everything from direct harassment to creepy mansplainers!) and ways to deal with them. There was also a LOT of safeguarding.

@User13710 - BCs social ride programmes certainly shouldn't be club-run-lite and the your organisers sound like they've overstepped their remit. Although there's an annoying amount of form-filling, the actual monitoring of rides and ongoing training seems quite hands-off, so I can see how a certain culture could develop within a group unchecked. Also, although I've never had reason to worry about the competence and good-faith of other volunteers I've ridden with (ok, once I've questioned competence) leading style can vary considerably. I'm quite interactive, but other leaders do a good impression of a Keirin derny rider.


----------



## I like Skol (1 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> n the main topic, it is exceptionally rare that I meet anyone who confesses to being a member of ANY cycling forum, unless I already know their guilty secret.


Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!


----------



## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!


How so?
When someone wonders where I got my snippets of bike mechanical knowledge, I proudly answer: "I learned it on Cycle Chat!"


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!


It was a bit of a light joke to be honest.
Edit: (after pat like, retract it if you want) though so rare is it for folk to own up to membership of this or any of the other places that I have sometimes wondered if folk are keeping schtum/keeping their powder dry. Then, as we cycle onwards for a bit, they pause for an apparent puncture, to then ram their pump through my heart in settlement of some obscure imagined long ago online feud.


----------



## Alan O (2 Jul 2018)

Bollo said:


> BCs social ride programmes certainly shouldn't be club-run-lite and the your organisers sound like they've overstepped their remit. Although there's an annoying amount of form-filling, the actual monitoring of rides and ongoing training seems quite hands-off, so I can see how a certain culture could develop within a group unchecked. Also, although I've never had reason to worry about the competence and good-faith of other volunteers I've ridden with (ok, once I've questioned competence) leading style can vary considerably. I'm quite interactive, but other leaders do a good impression of a Keirin derny rider.


The BC social rides I go on are very relaxed affairs - not remotely close to "club-run-lite". They tend to be organized by folk who lead guided rides too, and I know they're competent, but the social rides are really just about a bunch of people having a nice ride - with the choice of lunch stop being by far the most important issue of the day. I have no interest in "club" style riding, with all the weird hand-semaphore going on, but the BC socials I go on are nothing like that.

But I suspect there's big variation between groups, and it depends who organizes them and who takes part in them. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's regional variation too.


----------



## Crackle (2 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Why are we so ashamed of this? I too sometimes mumble in embarrassment with none cycling aquaintences about details of discussions on the forum!


I think the answer is they are difficult to put into context. I know I couldn't be bothered to explain how you sometimes feel you know people better on the forum than you know people in real life


----------



## I like Skol (2 Jul 2018)

I went to see @potsy today just to make sure he was still real. He certainly feels real


----------



## smutchin (2 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> He certainly feels real



TMI. What you and @potsy get up to in private is best kept that way.


----------



## Dayvo (2 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> I went to see @potsy today just to make sure he was still real. He certainly feels real



Did you ride _tandem_?


----------



## Blue Hills (2 Jul 2018)

Crackle said:


> sometimes feel you know people better on the forum than you know people in real life



In truth, there are a few, thankfully very very few, folk I feel I have got to know well enough on the forum to never want to meet in "real" life for the first time or again. In fora veritas, as the romans may have said.


----------



## Pat "5mph" (2 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> In fora veritas,


Also "In vino veritas"? 
Translation: don't drink and post!


----------



## Moderators (2 Jul 2018)

Mod Note:
Please let's not stray too far from the topic.
The variety of posters on CC means we sometimes take to a poster more than to others.
Thank you


----------



## DCBassman (2 Jul 2018)

My take: if you really think Cyclechat is obscure and not well-known among cyclists, well...I'm a member of Basschat. And I'm not talking fish.


----------



## Tim Hall (2 Jul 2018)

DCBassman said:


> My take: if you really think Cyclechat is obscure and not well-known among cyclists, well...I'm a member of Basschat. And I'm not talking fish.


That's half an hour I'll not get back.


----------



## ColinJ (2 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> In truth, there are a few, thankfully very very few, folk I feel I have got to know well enough on the forum to never want to meet in "real" life for the first time or again. In fora veritas, as the romans may have said.


I'm not sure exactly how many forum members I have met now, but it must be close to 300. I'd be happy to ride with 98-99% of them again. That is way better than I would have expected when I became a forum member.


----------



## User10119 (3 Jul 2018)

ColinJ said:


> I'm not sure exactly how many forum members I have met now,



I used to joke in another place that I should make myself a 'forumite spotters book' where I could tick 'em off as I 'bagged' them. With columns for 'met', 'went for a ride with', 'fed cake to' and 'they've kipped in my bed'!


----------



## Old jon (3 Jul 2018)

DCBassman said:


> My take: if you really think Cyclechat is obscure and not well-known among cyclists, well...I'm a member of Basschat. And I'm not talking fish.



Ummm, the Cittern Society? Start with a virtually unknown instrument and find 368 other players.

Should not post OT. but


----------



## I like Skol (8 Jul 2018)

Well, after today's ride i can only conclude that Cyclechat just doesn't exist!

I rode the 140km route of the Velothon Wales and wore my cyclechat shirt. I was convinced that at least 1 of the 8000 entrants would see it, know about the forum and maybe ask who I was?

WRONG! Not a dicky bird, no one even appeared to give me a second look or ask what the forum was about. It would seem that outside of the 3 dozen people that regularly post here, nobody else knows or cares about the forum and it's existence.......


----------



## Blue Hills (8 Jul 2018)

Is it possible they were terrified by your avatar pic?


----------



## Katherine (8 Jul 2018)

I think it shows that we are a snapshot of the uk cycling community, which is far bigger than anybody might believe.


----------



## Julia9054 (8 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Well, after today's ride i can only conclude that Cyclechat just doesn't exist!
> 
> I rode the 140km route of the Velothon Wales and wore my cyclechat shirt. I was convinced that at least 1 of the 8000 entrants would see it, know about the forum and maybe ask who I was?
> 
> WRONG! Not a dicky bird, no one even appeared to give me a second look or ask what the forum was about. It would seem that outside of the 3 dozen people that regularly post here, nobody else knows or cares about the forum and it's existence.......


That's very good going given your recent injury. Do you fancy coming on my end of term blast on 21st? https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/north-yorkshire-end-of-term-blast-21st-july.233460/


----------



## smutchin (8 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Well, after today's ride i can only conclude that Cyclechat just doesn't exist!



You know what the worst thing is about that, right? It's that we're all a figment of your imagination... and you must be the worst kind of sicko to have invented us.


----------



## I like Skol (8 Jul 2018)

Julia9054 said:


> That's very good going given your recent injury. Do you fancy coming on my end of term blast on 21st? https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/north-yorkshire-end-of-term-blast-21st-july.233460/


Would love to and keep checking my calendar but something (can't remember if it is work or kids stuff) clashes and i can't make it, otherwise I would be there


----------



## Crankarm (9 Jul 2018)

smutchin said:


> I don't think any members of my club are aware of - or even remotely interested in - online cycling forums. The same goes for all the people I know who work in cycling media (unless you count Road.cc).
> 
> The club has a facebook group but only a minority of members participate in that - it's a small handful of people who make the vast majority of posts.



I reckon most commuting and weekend warrior cyclists have heard of cycle chat and post from time to time or even regularly, but most just won't admit to it. Although of the regulars that post here how many actually cycle as given the frequency and numbers of their posts you could be forgiven for thinking they wouldn't have time for anything else in their lives let alone actually cycling ..........................


----------



## ColinJ (9 Jul 2018)

Crankarm said:


> Although of the regulars that post here how many actually cycle as given the frequency and numbers of their posts you could be forgiven for thinking they wouldn't have time for anything else in their lives let alone actually cycling ..........................


I post a lot on here and I do cycle. I don't have time for anything else in my life in my life, mind you ...


----------



## I like Skol (10 Jul 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> Is it possible they were terrified by your avatar pic?



I'm not so scary when I smile 

Here I am after crossing the finish line, flying the flag for Cyclechat…


----------



## Mugshot (10 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> Well, after today's ride i can only conclude that Cyclechat just doesn't exist!
> 
> I rode the 140km route of the Velothon Wales and wore my cyclechat shirt. I was convinced that at least 1 of the 8000 entrants would see it, know about the forum and maybe ask who I was?
> 
> WRONG! Not a dicky bird, no one even appeared to give me a second look or ask what the forum was about. It would seem that outside of the 3 dozen people that regularly post here, nobody else knows or cares about the forum and it's existence.......


Did you start at the back, make your way through to the front or vice versa just to make sure _everybody _had the chance to see your top?


----------



## Mugshot (10 Jul 2018)

User said:


> The _Lanterne Rouge_ certainly got a good look at it....


I'm sensing a lack of commitment to the cause to be honest.


----------



## Blue Hills (10 Jul 2018)

I like Skol said:


> I'm not so scary when I smile
> 
> Here I am after crossing the finish line, flying the flag for Cyclechat…
> 
> View attachment 418700


mm - your face is in the shadows in that pic.


----------



## roadrash (10 Jul 2018)

probably just as well , small children could come across that photo


----------



## Smokin Joe (10 Jul 2018)

There is no cycling community.


----------

