# My tips for cycling in France



## Jimmy Doug (4 Jul 2011)

Hi all,

I have been living and cycling in France since 1998, which is starting to feel like a long time! Now, a few months ago, I had the idea of creating a web site about cycling in France. However, through lack of time, illness, and seeing that other people have done a far better job than I could ever do, I abandoned the idea. But I thought I could at least salvage some of the work I'd done - and the part that I thought would be most useful would be the section where I gave some general practical advice on cycling in France. Maybe this could be useful to people who are thinking of cycling in France for the first time. Perhaps other people could do something similar on the countries where they live? That'd be really great!
Anyway, here it is. I hope it will be of use to someone sometime. I must remind you though that these are my personal opinions, and so others may not agree with everything I've written - especially my tirade on the priorité à droite rule!

Bonne lecture!


France is reputably one of the best countries in the world for cycling. I have probably lived here for too long now to be truly objective, but certainly compared to Britain (my home country) France does have a lot to offer. First of all, there can surely be few countries of such a relatively small size that can offer as much diversity. If you like the mountains, France has its fair share (The Alps, Pyrenees, Massif Centrale...); if you prefer cycling on the flat, France can cater (especially in the north); France has some fantastic forests too - the ideal venue for many a cyclist; and if you prefer historical sites, France has some real world-class venues like the Chateaux de la Loire, the Normandy beaches or the relics in the Pays Cathare - and that still leaves you with some great towns and cities like Paris, Bordeaux, Lille, Chârtres...
Here are some points about cycling in France:

*Driver mentality*
Despite considerable progress in recent years, some of the French motorists are still very aggressive. I know you'll meet this problem wherever you go, and some countries have a much bigger driver attitude problem than France, but France nevertheless seems to have more than its fair share of drivers who treat other road users like their enemy. This aggression, together with the fact that too many people seem to consider the maximum speed limit to be more a minimum speed limit, is obviously more dangerous to cyclists than probably any other road user. Be particularly careful crossing main roads. You may estimate that a car is approaching at 90 kmh, but it could be more like 130 kmh! However, despite this problem, I do feel safer on French roads than I do on British ones (and much safer than I do in Italy, for example!). Although there is a lot of "road rage" in France, the French motorist does tend to be very considerate to cyclists. It's rare that they pass too close to you, and cars will sometimes even slow down behind you and wait for a clear view before overtaking. In a word, so long as you're careful of the speed of motorised traffic and do what you can to be seen (wear yellow or lime green vests, for example) you should be able to cycle in France in absolute safety.

*Priorité à droite*



​_Now there's an admission! The rules of the road are there to keep everyone safe. If a rule needs a sign like this, surely there's something wrong with that rule?_


Here starts my number one rant about French roads - but I suspect other cyclists used to riding in France will sympathise with it. On a lot of French roads, you can't assume that just because you're on the main road this means that you have the priority. In many cases, especially in towns and villages, this just isn't the case - on some roads the traffic coming from the right has priority over you, which means that you must stop and let them through - even if you're on a road limited to 90 kmh (although, on a bike, you're hopefully not travelling at that speed!). The basis for this rule is twofold. First, it means that people trying to join a busy road can do so safely (I think there is something to be said about this - but in my opinion a mini-roundabout solution, as in Britain, would be clearer and safer); secondly, it slows down the traffic - it keeps you alert as a car can pull out in front of you at any time. Personally, I think this last justification is pure stupidity: it's a bit like the authorities leaving the occasional real live bomb on trains to keep people alert to the terrorist threat.
Whatever the justification for the priorité à droite rule, I think I'd be able to live with it much better if there was any consistency or clarity. Unfortunately there is neither. There's no consistency because in any town you can have the priority on one junction, only to not have it on the junction immediately next to it; or the priorité à droite rule will be applied religiously in one village, but not at all in the village further down the road; and it's not clear because it's either signalled by a small sign like the one shown here with a cross on it at the entrance to a village (which doesn't tell you just which junction the rule applies to)






or by the absence of a white line going across the road which takes priority. Actually, I think I'll say that again because it's so illogical you may have missed it. Yes, you only know it's priorité à droite by the absence of a line across the road you're not on! This means that if you don't see the road and a car suddenly pulls out in front of you and hits you, the fault is yours and not his.
Now, all of this is bad enough if you're driving. After all, if a driver hits you because he arrogantly pulled out in front of you without looking, the most it'll probably cost you is your no-claims bonus; but on a bike this situation could literally cost you your life. And the best bit is that it'd still technically be your fault! And really, I'm not exaggerating at all, some of these priorité à droite roads aren't visible until it's potentially too late. Take a look at this example from one of the villages in my area. In the photo below, you can see there's a zebra crossing in the road. After this, there appears to be a bend:









However, juet after you get past the house on the right (about 20 metres), you realise that what appears to be a bend is, in fact, another road crossing the road you're on. The picture isn't that good, but you can see that this is the case because there's another zebra crossing. Both the zebra crossing and the road itself are only visible a few metres before you actually get to them - and notice there's no sign - nothing to warn you that you're going to have to stop and give way:






Even when you arrive here, it's only by craning your neck that you can really see the road! If a car was coming down this way and hit you, you'd be at fault and not him! Junctions as bad as this one are thankfully rare, but you must always stay alert in French villages and towns for cars suddenly pulling out in front of you on roads you can't even see! 

So, whenever you're out cycling in France, be always attentive to this rule which is a potential menace to anyone going through a part of France they don't know, especially if they're on a bike. If you see the sign like the one above, be careful because a car could pull out of at least one of the roads you're about to pass; and if you don't see this sign, be careful anyway because the presence of the priorité à droite rule isn't always signalled.
*

Roads*
French road surfaces are usually good to excellent. This is obviously great news to cyclists - and it's one of the reasons why France is so attractive to cyclists. However, there is a potential cost - road closures. If you're out in Summer particularly, be prepared to change your route unexpectedly. During the summer the authorities take advantage of the fact that most people are on holiday to repair the roads - and sometimes the roadworks are enormous. When this happens, out come the Diversion signs - and as a cyclist you can't always trust them. For one thing, they're notoriously unreliable as they can disappear; for another thing, the alternative route they take you on can literally add miles to your journey. In fact, it's probably best to dismount and walk past the roadworks if you can, or maybe ask the workers if it's OK for you to cycle through (they'll usually usher you through). However, I have encountered roadworks that are so huge there's really nothing to do but go round. If this happens, take out your map and plan your route yourself - do not blindly follow the Diversion signs!
Whilst on the subject of roads, I think I should warn you about the N roads. When you look at a map, they seem OK - and they often are. However, N roads can be very busy and very fast - and some of them are more like motorways than normal roads, and you may even not be authorised to cycle on them. So, stick to D roads or the smaller C roads - (which are precisely the roads most likely to be closed in the summer, by the way!)

*Trains*
If you need to take a train in France with a bike, it is generally not a problem if you are taking a conventional (ie, a non TGV) train. Modern trains have at least one coach where you can store your bicycle, usually by hanging it from the front wheel. These wagons are great, because it's easy to wheel your bike onto the train, there are seats right next door to where you store the bike (so you can keep an eye on it) and the bike is easily stored and removed. These wagons are signalled by bike logo, like this one (or variants):

[Image link no longer available]

The actual position of the wagon is difficult to predict, so best stand on the platform and watch out carefully for the bike wagon - and be prepared to run to it - on some stations the train won't wait for long! On older trains, you have to put the bicycle at the front of the train, in the controller's wagon.
If you are taking a TGV, note that it can be much more difficult to take a bike (although it can be done on certain trains). If you do try to take a TGV with a bike, you have to pay €10 extra and on some lines you must take the bicycle to pieces and put it in a bicycle bag. This is obviously no use to touring cyclists who can't cart a bulky bike bag around with them. For these people, it may be necessary to re-route your journey so as to take non-TGV trains (called Train Corail). Note that on some routes (eg, Paris to Lyon) this can be a very long process involving many changes - but it can be done! However, do check with the SNCF before you go, as the rules concerning bike transport on the TGV seem to be depend on the line, but probably also on other things.
Don't forget that before you enter any French train, you must punch your ticket. You'll find in the station a punching machine, into which you must put your ticket (the right way round). When you hear a _punch_ you know that the ticket has been validated. Failure to do this can result in a fine (although some controllers, knowing you're not French, might feel generous). If you get on a train and realise you've forgotten to punch your ticket, seek out the controller before he asks you for your ticket and you should be OK (I've forgotten to punch my ticket is _J'ai oublié de composter mon billet_). There are two types of punching machines. The older ones look like this:






The newer ones look like this:







Note that not all non-TGV trains are equipped to carry bikes - and at some times you may not be allowed to put your bike on some of the trains. However, this is quite rare. Also, did I forget to say that bikes on non-TGV travel free?
Finally, if you're going to Paris, do not try to put your bike on the metro! It isn't allowed, and you'd have a very hard job squeezing your pride and joy through the small gates and getting up and down the stairs. Besides, if you did make it down to the metro platform, you'd never get out of the metro alive! Your bike's presence would not be appreciated by the Parisians who are generally squeezed together more intimately than they'd like anyway, and who already have a big job not getting irritated by rucksacks! 
*
Dogs*
In some parts of the world dogs are a threat to cyclists. However, I have never ever had any problems related to dogs in France.

*Hunters*
France is the European country which counts most hunters - and you'll often see them walking along the side of the road, sometimes dressed like Rambo in full combat gear. They're not as much of a danger to cyclists as they are to themselves - and actually you do hear stories of them getting shot. Nevertheless, be aware that they're around - especially in the forests. High visibility clothing is a good idea!

*Accomodation*
Camping sites are very easy to find in France. Most big towns have a municipal campground at very reasonable rates. This is a handy web site showing all the municipal campsites http://www.camping-municipal.org/camping-france.htm. Although the quality of the campsites do vary greatly, they are mostly very clean. Do remember to bring toilet paper however, as this is rarely provided. Note that wild camping in France is illegal, but if you are caught out and can't find the landowner, if you are discrete and adopt the _arrive late, leave early _principle you shouldn't have any trouble wild camping in the more remote areas. Be aware that in some parts of France (for example the Lozère or the Jura) there are attempts to re-introduce wolves, lynxes and the like, but I haven't ever heard of any attacks on humans.
If you don't like the idea of camping, there are obviously a huge number of hotels all over France. Compared to the UK, the prices tend to be very reasonable. In most towns you will find budget hotels, but on a bicycle they can be difficult to locate as they tend to be situated at the exterior of the town, visible from ring roads that you are not allowed to cycle on. Some of the main budget chains are B&B, which is my personal favourite but a little more expensive than some of the other budget hotels as the rooms have en-suite bathrooms and are a little more comfortable; F1, which is cheaper but where you have to be prepared to share the bathroom facilities with other guests (the showers and toilets are cleaned after every use so this doesn't usually cause any trouble); and Etap, which offers a greater variety of rooms from budget to comfortable.
Finally, you should have no problems finding youth hostels in the bigger towns or the more touristic places. You'll find details about these here.

*French*
There is no doubt that any attempt you make to speak French will be greatly appreciated. You don't need to be fluent, if you at least make the attempt to say "Bonjour" and "Merci" you will probably be rewarded with a smile and more likely to get a helpful response than if you just assume that the person will understand English. Note that it is far from certain that the person you're talking to will be able to communicate in English (except in places like hotels and tourist centres): although most children do English at school, the lessons are for the moment far too theoretical and the class sizes far too big to allow children to have a true language learning environment - hence a lot of French people can write and read English adequately, but have great trouble speaking and understanding it. As I said, you don't need to be bilingual, but a small grounding in French will help. Take the time to acquire the basics and you'll be amazed how polite and helpful you'll find people. You'll find a lot of good material to learn beginner French here.


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## yello (4 Jul 2011)

An interesting read. I do like to read the perspective of others non-French French residents, there's often a great deal I can empathise with or at least recognise. I've lived in France for 4 years now and am starting to settle to it (that is, what was once foreign is becoming the norm and taken for granted). I do still try to make allowances for difference and try not to be judgemental but I'll admit it is difficult sometimes!

Priorité à droite can catch you out. Fortunately for me, it's not that often that it is an issue - since where I live is rural so there is very little traffic. It's worth keeping in mind that in rural France, many people do drive as if there'll be nothing coming the other way, or crossing an unmarked junction at the same time. You can understand why - usually they're right! So don't be surprised to see something coming towards you in the middle of the road! That is simply how many people drive. It's regularly remarked upon by ex-pat Brits but completely unremarkable as far as the French are concerned - vive la difference eh!

I can see the sense in priorité à driote in some situations. Where 2 roads of equal significance cross in the middle of the nowhere (both are 'main' roads, who is to say which is the 'route principale?) then priorité à driote is a clear and unambiguous rule. 

But equally there are situations where I am completely dumbfounded as to the wisdom of it... in towns particularly. Yes, you should stop to allow traffic to join from a side road! I know it's only my perspective but my lord it seems weird!


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## Jimmy Doug (4 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> But equally there are situations where I am completely dumbfounded as to the wisdom of it... in towns particularly. Yes, you should stop to allow traffic to join from a side road! I know it's only my perspective but my lord it seems weird!



I'm glad to know I'm not the only one! I've often thought of starting a _cyclistes contre la priorité à droite _campaign but French society can take a lot of persuation that something needs changing. Besides, rather than reducing the number of roads that are _priorité à droite_, France seems to be increasing them - there are loads of roads around here where new _priorié à droite _junctions have been created in the past couple of years.


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## mcr (6 Jul 2011)

yello said:


> Yes, you should stop to allow traffic to join from a side road! I know it's only my perspective but my lord it seems weird!



So that's where the designers of Britain's cycle lanes got their idea that you should give way at every side junction, driveway etc...


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## splitpin (1 Aug 2011)

Hi Jimmy,

I've just spent three weeks cycling through France for the first time and I wish I'd seen your post before I left. The Priorite A Droite (sp?) bit was particularly interesting. I've been wondering what that funny red triangular sign is with the "X" in the middle :-s

One thing I found on my travels I thought would be worth sharing is that in a lot of the towns and villages I passed through there would be stops for campervans to park up. These always seem to have fresh running water supplies and often a picnic bench so they were a great place to stop for lunch, clean up, wash clothes etc. Sorry if this is an obvious thing to everyone here, but like I said this is my first tour! I've attached a picture of the signage for these sites. The only thing I didn't try was actually camping alongside the campervans. Do you know if this is allowed?


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## Jimmy Doug (2 Aug 2011)

Hi

This is a really useful tip. I don't know about putting your tent up in a caravan park. I'll look into it when I get back (cycling in Greece right now). My guess is that campers pay an annual subscription which entitles them to sleep there - but that's just a guess.


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## G-Zero (2 Aug 2011)

splitpin said:


> The only thing I didn't try was actually camping alongside the campervans. Do you know if this is allowed?
> 
> [attachment=4580:5995390731_ccc850bbf1.jpg]



Hi,

I don't know for definite across the whole of France, but I have stayed in a few French "Aires" that have the sign depicting a motorhome/camping car over a disposal point.

As far as I'm aware they were intended for the sole use of motorhomes/camping cars, although quite regularly these days, caravanners have started using them. 

Again, I don't know if they're all the same, but the few that I've been in have been on tarmac and not suitable for tents.

HTH.


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## Jimmy Doug (3 Aug 2011)

Yes, these are "aires" are good places, but I'm pretty certain that overnight camping isn't allowed.


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## robjh (13 Aug 2011)

The motorhome 'aires' certainly aren't intended for anyone other than motorhomers, but if you can find one with an appropriate piece of grass around the edges (just don't try and occupy any of the main 'parkable' areas!) then the worst you will get is some funny looks.
Most have free refills of drinking water, though in some it may be charged at €1 to €3 for a camper-van tank's volume of water - no discount for cyclists!
Incidentally, most of the public aires are free to use for motorhomers, presumably on the basis that they're likely to spend money while in the area, and it stops them clogging up public carparks.

Re. wild camping whilst cycle-touring, France is a big and largely rural place and with a bit of common sense it's a perfectly practical option (even if often claimed to be illegal - I don't know what precisely the law has to say about it).

nb I speak as both a cycle tourist and a motorhomer


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## doog (13 Aug 2011)

Reference wild camping :Having cycled up from Spain to the UK up through France with my tent my view is that options are limited and its not really practical. From the mountains to St Malo i saw very few opportunities to wild camp.

The problem you have is this, nearly every piece of land is either fenced or ditched, in the South there are warning signs everywhere. In addition you have to ask this question , is wild camping an ideal way to enjoy a cycling holiday? answer No.

I wild camped on my last night and it wasnt enjoyable. I cycled until it was dark and that was a long day in the saddle. I got up at day break so I had about 5 hours sleep, no facilities so not nice. I wild camped because I couldn't find a 5 euro camp site..yes thats how much the municipals were, big pitch hot shower etc.

I would do it again but only if my planning was so bad I had no choice.


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## chrtho (13 Aug 2011)

doog said:


> Reference wild camping :Having cycled up from Spain to the UK up through France with my tent my view is that options are limited and its not really practical. From the mountains to St Malo i saw very few opportunities to wild camp.
> 
> The problem you have is this, nearly every piece of land is either fenced or ditched, in the South there are warning signs everywhere.


I've always found the French countryside more open and less fenced in than other countries. My route took me from Brittany down the Atlantic coast then over the Pyrenees to Spain. I think I wild camped 1 night in 3 and only once had difficulty finding somewhere. Would have done it more often if it wasn't for the cheap municipals.



> In addition you have to ask this question , is wild camping an ideal way to enjoy a cycling holiday? answer No.


Each to his own I suppose but for me, cycling and wild camping are the perfect combination. Why compromise the freedom cycling gives by imposing detours and timescales to find accommodation? Just ride where you want, for as long as you want, put the tent up, eat, sleep and be on your way again in the morning. Beautiful.

Plus you sometimes get the place to yourself for the evening:


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## battered (5 Nov 2011)

I recently had a weekend camping in France, I turned up late, out of season and basically got turned away as booking a place would have taken weeks, ring the call out number etc. One obnoxious women very smugly told me "you won't find *anything*!" Guess again _cherie_ I did, I didn't have to look at you, it was free and I had the place to myself. It helped that in October there's plenty of dark hours, it got light at 0730. I parked up and cooked, tent up at 10, in, awake at 7, packed up, brew and away about 0830. In high summer it's harder, unless you are in very remore areas.


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## joro (5 Nov 2011)

Well ... priorité à droite cuts both ways. I used to do a regular commute in Le Havre on my bike that involved pulling out of a (to me) minor side road to turn left onto a heavy traffic route. It took me ages to gain the confidence to just pull out and rely on the traffic tearing down the hill to my left to brake for me. In fact I never really gained the confidence, but I tried to look confident. The thing is that generally as I approached the major road drivers from the left were already standing on their brakes in order to give way to me, even heavy lorries that had real difficulty in stopping. It got to the point where it seemed rude of me not to give them a friendly wave and pull out (all the time being aware of my need to give priority to traffic from my right of course). My French friends taught me by example to be super cautious when approaching any side road on the right, and that's the key to coping with priorité à droite - never ever trust a road on the right to be clear because traffic may emerge very fast (knowing they have priority). Having said all that I totally agree with you that as a rule of the road it's just asking for trouble and is a recipe for gridlock whenever traffic gets heavy.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Nov 2011)

joro said:


> My French friends taught me by example to be super cautious when approaching any side road on the right, and that's the key to coping with priorité à droite - never ever trust a road on the right to be clear because traffic may emerge very fast (knowing they have priority).



That's exactly why I added the priorité à droite rule in my guide - and it's one of the reasons for the rule in the first place. But you can only trust a road on the right if you can see it. Too many of these roads are visible at the very last moment - and then it's too late.


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## rich p (6 Nov 2011)

I don't wish to disagree with a French domicile but I've cycled many times in France and toured 1000's of miles there and never once come across priorite a droite. 

Are you sure you're not over-egging it a bit?


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## yello (6 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> I've cycled many times in France and toured 1000's of miles there and never once come across priorite a droite.



Not sure what you mean by 'come across' it Rich. It's the default situation, it exists unstated! It's everywhere! You'll see signs where it no longer applies and then, further up the road, where it's been re-instated. Or it can be overridden at marked junctions (give way or stop signs or markings) but at every single unmarked junction you'll have ridden through, it applies. 

Sometimes (perhaps even mostly), you'll see unmarked junctions signed in advance (a simple black cross sign, lines of equal weight) to make you aware of the junction. It also tells you that priorite a droite will apply. 

In practice (and this is perhaps your point), it's not an issue since the majority of such junctions that the cycle tourist will come across are invariably clear, such is the lack of traffic. But all the more reason, perhaps, to be aware of the law. You may think you're on the 'major' of 2 intersecting roads and therefore assume priority, only for the car on your right to sail right through the junction! It pays to be aware.

Equally important, particularly in rural areas, is to be aware that many of the older drivers (or those that have never come across anything other than priorite a driote) will sail through marked junctions too, regardless of giveway or stop signs!

Believe me, priorite a driote exists! And you'll soon become aware of it (hopefully not painfully) when you've made an incorrect assumption!


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## yello (6 Nov 2011)

Something else I've just thought of, so ingrained is priorite a droite in French driving habits that it even governs interactions in such places as car parks! As I say, it's the default, insidious, unseen, stealth like. Be afraid aware


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## rich p (6 Nov 2011)

Yes, Yello, it was badly phrased! I'm aware that it exists, and I'm aware of the signage but I meant to say that it has never been an issue and I have toured and ridden in France a lot, although nowhere near as much as you and Jimmy.

My point is, have I just been lucky or is it less of a problem in practice than has been suggested? Genuine question!

I'd not want a nervous prospective tourist to be put off.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Nov 2011)

Hi Rich

My answer to your question is that you've been lucky. The chances of a cyclist having an accident because of the priorité à droite rule is low; the chances of a motorist having an accident because of the law is low too - but obviously higher. But the reason why it's low is because on roads where it really could be dangerous, most people who have the priority would only pull out very cautiously. This doesn't mean to say these roads present no potential danger - they do, and anyone who goes cycling in France should be aware of this danger and exercise extreme caution when (s)he sees a road coming from the right. After 14 years' living in France (since 1997), I have never actually had an accident on French roads, but I have come very close to being hit by a car coming from the right a couple of times. I have been lucky too!
This rule shouldn't make people hesitate about cycling here though. As I said in my guide, the French roads really are very safe for cyclists - but that's mostly because French drivers are very respectful towards us, and not because the rules of the road in France are particularly favourable to cyclists (they're not!). I feel safer cycling in France than in England - despite the priorité à droite rule.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Nov 2011)

I'll re-phrase what I said. Rather than say you've been lucky, I think I should say you haven't been unlucky!


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## rich p (6 Nov 2011)

Thanks Jimmy, I shall be more alert next time I'm there


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## wakou (6 Nov 2011)

Try *Charles de Gaulle - Étoile *(Arc de Triomphe). You will quickly realise what 'La priorité à droite' is all about. It took me a few months of taking my truck weekly to Paris to work out that the 'safest' way is to hit the roundabout at about 30mph with eyes shut, and to never use the inside lane as you will end up on it for the rest of the day.


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## Dayvo (6 Nov 2011)

The same 'give way to the right' applies on many roads in Norway, as well.

Whilst having to be more alert to this ridiculous rule (cars entering a main road from a minor can seemingly just pull out from a slow start into the path of one moving at 30-40 mph) as a driver, this doesn't present such a problem as a cyclist per se. 

But as a cyclist entering the main road with the right of way, many cars don't slow down, or cede the right of way as they consider you you to only be a cyclist and bereft of the rights as another road user.


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## johnny mcgurk (6 Nov 2011)

I used to think that all Frenchmen approached a junction in the following manner. Examine type of junction, check signpost and then assume ' priorite a moi'. Bbut having lived here for a while I now find them incredibly courteous to all cyclists. They leave room when overtaking, they never overtake on blind bends or hills and generally respect cyclists much more than in most other countries.I have also found that priorite a droite is much less prevelant on the larger roads than it used to be. It still exists on many back roads but, by their nature these roads have much less traffic. So whilst there is still a need for caution, it should not deter anyone from cycling in France. I moved here from West London and I know where I would rather ride a bike.


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## johnny mcgurk (6 Nov 2011)

wakou said:


> Try *Charles de Gaulle - Étoile *(Arc de Triomphe). You will quickly realise what 'La priorité à droite' is all about. It took me a few months of taking my truck weekly to Paris to work out that the 'safest' way is to hit the roundabout at about 30mph with eyes shut, and to never use the inside lane as you will end up on it for the rest of the day.



I used to drive across etoile on my way to work many years ago. I learnt that the only way to approach it was never to look straight ahead, always look to the right and never show any sign of weakness.


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## wakou (6 Nov 2011)

+1 johnnymcqurk


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## yello (6 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> My point is, have I just been lucky or is it less of a problem in practice than has been suggested? Genuine question!



Without disagreeing with either Johnny or Doug (who are taking the question a different way), I personally would say it's actually less of a problem in practice. It's definitely a law to be aware of, and there is obviously a chance of being caught out by it, but it's not really something that will rear it's head on a continual basis. 

Most city and town junctions are clearly controlled with either lights or stop/give way signs. In rural areas on the roads cyclotourists are likely to take, you simply don't often encounter that much traffic. The chances of meeting something on an unmarked junction are small (as you have no doubt experienced). So, in practice, not an issue.

It's likely to be more of an issue on a T junction than on an cross roads. On the latter, people are more likely to slow down anyway regardless since they'll have a road to their right to check (that is why I like the rule!). T junctions are potentially more of a problem (as people above have said). 

At a T junction, where a road joins your carriageway from your right, THEY have priority and you have to give way. It's truly weird. Often such junctions are controlled but you simply can't assume so... and you may not have any indication as you approach a junction as to whether it's controlled or not (I.e. you may not know if the traffic on the right has priority). It's safer to approach such junctions with caution. But, as you suggest, _in practice_ it's not often you'll encounter a problem._ 
_
In the 4 years I've been here I'd say I've only had 3 incidents were it was an issue. And on one of those, the old fella sailed through a give way sign anyway! All were T junctions (one, a variation thereof; more of a Y junction!) and each were 'woah!' moments rather than major problems. Call that luck if you like.


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> Yes, Yello, it was badly phrased! I'm aware that it exists, and I'm aware of the signage but I meant to say that it has never been an issue and I have toured and ridden in France a lot, although nowhere near as much as you and Jimmy.
> 
> My point is, have I just been lucky or is it less of a problem in practice than has been suggested? Genuine question!
> 
> I'd not want a nervous prospective tourist to be put off.



I would agree with Rich - Ive cycled many thousands of km in France and whilst I have always been aware of the signage and the rule it has very rarely come into play and never caused me problems as a cyclist - before cycling in Paris many people had warned me to be on my guard against this "mad system" however in practice I only really noticed its existence cycling in some backstreets in the south of the city - I had read somewhere that the Pontes et Etudes were in the process of trying to phase it out???

My advice to anybody new to cycling in France would be to aware that it exists and be diligent but not too worry about it too much. 

Just excercise the same caution that you would as a cyclist in any country at any junction - always assume that the hierarchy of "Im bigger than you applies" and do not assume anyone is going to give way until proven.


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2011)

wakou said:


> Try *Charles de Gaulle - Étoile *(Arc de Triomphe). You will quickly realise what 'La priorité à droite' is all about. It took me a few months of taking my truck weekly to Paris to work out that the 'safest' way is to hit the roundabout at about 30mph with eyes shut, and to never use the inside lane as you will end up on it for the rest of the day.



I cycled a lap of this on a saturday morning a few years back and did not actually notice that it was 'La priorité à droite' - looks like I need to keep my eyes on the road more rather than on the sights

Edit- I am sure that the all the enterances are traffic light controlled


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## yello (6 Nov 2011)

psmiffy said:


> My advice to anybody new to cycling in France would be to aware that it exists and be diligent but not too worry about it too much.



Yep, I'd go for that as an excellent approach.


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Nov 2011)

psmiffy said:


> My advice to anybody new to cycling in France would be to aware that it exists and be diligent but not too worry about it too much.



This is my point exactly. The problem is that too many people don't know this law exists. And I want to add that some junctions really are difficult to see. Junctions like the one in my photo are rare, but they do exist. There's another one near my home, actually - the first time I encountered it, I noticed it after I went over it, and thought to myself "Christ, if there was a car..." This is less of a problem outside of towns and villages, as has already been mentioned. 
I was interested that this rule exists in Norway. I'm hoping to head out there next year, so I'll be wary of it there. Actually, the problem for me is less that the rule exists, but more that it ofen isn't properly signaled, or signalled at all in some circumstances. Is that the case in Norway?


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## psmiffy (6 Nov 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I was interested that this rule exists in Norway. I'm hoping to head out there next year, so I'll be wary of it there. Actually, the problem for me is less that the rule exists, but more that it ofen isn't properly signaled, or signalled at all in some circumstances. Is that the case in Norway?



"Hijacks thread to Norway"

The couple of times that ive cycled in Norway Ive never noticed that the rule exists there (blind as well as deaf?)

Im always on the alert for it because when I was young it was relatively common in Germany - Since been done away with (definetly not seen it on the last couple of occasions Ive been there - although I think in places Belgium still has it) and they sorted out the roundabout priority at the same time


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## Jimmy Doug (6 Nov 2011)

Isn't it supposed to exist in Italy and Spain as well? Maybe we Brits are the exceptions in not having it? But I think it's more frequent in France than in the other countries I've cycled in - or maybe I notice it more because I live here.


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## Dayvo (6 Nov 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I was interested that this rule exists in Norway. I'm hoping to head out there next year, so I'll be wary of it there. Actually, the problem for me is less that the rule exists, but more that it ofen isn't properly signaled, or signalled at all in some circumstances. Is that the case in Norway?




This site may be of use to you: http://www.explorra....ons/norway_9592

I cut and pasted this to save you the trouble: 


*Rules and regulations*
<I>Norwegian roads are among the safest in the world due to extensive training of drivers, low speed limits and strict enforcement of rule


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Nov 2011)

Thanks Dayvo. You're sure one lucky guy to live in that beautiful land. I've dreamed of going to Norway for so long - can't wait!


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## psmiffy (7 Nov 2011)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Thanks Dayvo. You're sure one lucky guy to live in that beautiful land. I've dreamed of going to Norway for so long - can't wait!



I should leave it long enough that you can save up for some decent waterproofs

_Tourist in Bergen says to small boy "does it always rain here" small boy replies "I don't know I'm only 14years old"
_


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## Jimmy Doug (8 Nov 2011)

psmiffy said:


> I should leave it long enough that you can save up for some decent waterproofs_
> _



Done  Just need some good trousers! I've started a thread about Norway here. I have so many questions - best I ask them on a different thread and keep this one cycling in France.


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## rich p (8 Nov 2011)

I have a question for the expats or anyone else, indeed! Those hardstand areas in small towns and villages for camper vans, do they have a running water facility that might come in useful for topping up purposs?


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## Jimmy Doug (8 Nov 2011)

I believe some, or even most of them do - but I tend to stay in campsites so I don't use them.


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## Lard Armstrong (11 Nov 2011)

I did a long tour around France on the bike, and wild camped most days, I generally never had a problem finding somewhere to pitch up. I encountered land owners on several occasions and mostly they were pleasant and didn't object.

A number of times we visited vineyards, wineries, and farms selling produce, bought something and asked if is was possible camp somewhere out of the way and every time they said yes. One some occasions they even made us packed lunches, invited us to dinner, etc. Far better experience than staying in an F1 :-)

I must say speaking French felt like a real advantage though.


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## yello (12 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> I have a question for the expats or anyone else, indeed! Those hardstand areas in small towns and villages for camper vans, do they have a running water facility that might come in useful for topping up purposs?



Sorry Rich, only just seen this. No idea in truth. I'd imagine they do but I've never actually looked to find out.

Something worth bearing in mind though is cemeteries. Pretty much every town has one and they invariably have a tap for water. It's pretty freaky wondering around one by torch light in the small hours though! Been there, done that!  Equally, a local sports' ground (or 'stade') usually has an outside tap.


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## vernon (12 Nov 2011)

yello said:


> Sorry Rich, only just seen this. No idea in truth. I'd imagine they do but I've never actually looked to find out.
> 
> Something worth bearing in mind though is cemeteries. Pretty much every town has one and they invariably have a tap for water. It's pretty freaky wondering around one by torch light in the small hours though! Been there, done that!  Equally, a local sports' ground (or 'stade') usually has an outside tap.



Some of the hard standing areas do have water taps.

I cemeteries are a reliable source of water. I've even come across a couple of cemeteries with a WC in the corner though they are not the norm.

Another source of water is the cast iron standards with a rotating top. They are usually painted green and look a bit like a fire hydrant. Rotating the top using the integrated handle initiates a gurgling sound and eventually a stream of water. Stop turning the handle and the flow of water ceases. Magic!


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## Jimmy Doug (12 Nov 2011)

vernon said:


> Another source of water is the cast iron standards with a rotating top. They are usually painted green and look a bit like a fire hydrant. Rotating the top using the integrated handle initiates a gurgling sound and eventually a stream of water. Stop turning the handle and the flow of water ceases. Magic!



They don't always work, unfortunately. In my town none of them do. I've never had problems finding water in France, though. When I stop in a bar or even a bakers, I always ask them if they can fill my bottle - some even offer to put ice in it.


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## johnny mcgurk (12 Nov 2011)

Round these parts, south west, most of the camper van stopping sites do have running water, but it's not always drinkable, but will be marked non potable if that is the case. Most village squares have a tap or fountain and only the most niggardly of cafe owners will refuse to fill a bidon or two if asked nicely.Very often if I stop for a coffee, they will ask me if I want mine filled.


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## dragon72 (23 Nov 2011)

When entering a bar or café, say "Bonjour" to the people in there, whether you know them or not. 
Similarly, if you see people eating, wish them a "Bon appétit".
You'll notice French people doing it to you, so why not do as they do to and spread the politeness and love.
That's why I love France. It's (generally) just such a polite and civilised society.


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## yello (23 Nov 2011)

dragon72 said:


> When entering a bar or café, say "Bonjour" to the people in there, whether you know them or not.


 
Yes, it is the norm. A basic level of politeness perhaps, or just a cultural habit? Who knows. Either way, it happens. They're equally as likely to just say 'madame' or 'monsieur' or 'madame monsieur' etc depending on who is in the bar/cafe.


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## snowy10 (24 Nov 2011)

chrtho said:


> I've always found the French countryside more open and less fenced in than other countries. My route took me from Brittany down the Atlantic coast then over the Pyrenees to Spain. I think I wild camped 1 night in 3 and only once had difficulty finding somewhere. Would have done it more often if it wasn't for the cheap municipals.
> 
> 
> Each to his own I suppose but for me, cycling and wild camping are the perfect combination. Why compromise the freedom cycling gives by imposing detours and timescales to find accommodation? Just ride where you want, for as long as you want, put the tent up, eat, sleep and be on your way again in the morning. Beautiful.
> ...


I agree!


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## gwhite (25 Nov 2011)

rich p said:


> I have a question for the expats or anyone else, indeed! Those hardstand areas in small towns and villages for camper vans, do they have a running water facility that might come in useful for topping up purposs?


 
French cemeteries all have a tap which can be handy at times for filling water bottles.
I do agree that France is the most wonderful country for cycling and drivers there really do have a real respect for cyclists. I miss it terribly after cycle/camping there for thirty-five years and living there for three. I had to give this up due to health problems but even now,every summer I think of my wee tent and how good it was to spend a couple of months cycling those little country roads. I really wish I wasn't old and decrepit.


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## PaulSB (7 Dec 2011)

rich p said:


> I don't wish to disagree with a French domicile but I've cycled many times in France and toured 1000's of miles there and never once come across priorite a droite.
> 
> Are you sure you're not over-egging it a bit?



Much the same experience for me. I have been visiting France for 35 years as a cyclist and driver in both very rural and heavily urbanised areas. We frequently stay with and are driven by French nationals. They have never even mentioned or acted upon the rule - even when lending us a car. 

While I know the rule exists, and have often seen the warning signs, the only time I had an issue with prioritie a droite was the first time I drove on the Periphique in Paris. I was busy cursing the idiots pulling out in front of me until my French passenger pointed out those entering from the right had priority. 

The rule is not an issue, merely requiring a common sense, cautious approach to driving or driving in a foreign country I hope the over-emphasis on this issue does not put anyone off visiting a wonderful country.


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## asterix (5 Jan 2012)

re priorite a droite. This is my take..

France is a much bigger country than the UK and has a vast number of tiny roads whose junctions are often well below modern standards. Economically it would be absurd to re engineer them all so road users have to take considerable care in such situations. Fortunately traffic density is far less than in much of the UK.

On _major_ French roads outside towns there is no priorite a droite unless clearly marked by the sign shown by the OP, i.e. triangle and black st Andrews cross. Incredibly rare IME.

On rural roads it is not uncommon and in both instances always refers to a specific junction.

A sign that is a yellow diamond on white means that you are on a road that has over all priorite and vehicles from both left and right must give way. Usually seen on leaving a town.

The same sign with a black slash across means you no longer have complete priorite and must give way to vehicles from the right, usually seen on entering a town.

I can think of only a single occasion when I have had a problem with priorite a droite when cycling, a scare really, as a car passed at speed on a right hand merging road. A lesson learned!

Otherwise TBH, I find the best plan is to drive a large, battered old white van as this will gain you the respect you need on the roads unless you meet a tractor. Fortunately most tractor drivers have been very good so far.

I started driving in France in 1992 and since 2005 I spend half my time in the Haute Vienne, where the huge majority of drivers are courteous and unaggressive (apart from the odd timber lorry driver though most of them are fine).


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## G-Zero (7 Feb 2012)

Just picked up this link from a motorhome forum that I frequent http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/priority-a-droite.htm and I have to admit that although I was aware of 'proirity a droite', I've never noticed the red & white posts positioned at junctions as depicted in the link ??


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## Edge705 (7 Feb 2012)

Excellent read thank you


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## asterix (8 Feb 2012)

G-Zero said:


> Just picked up this link from a motorhome forum that I frequent http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/priority-a-droite.htm and I have to admit that although I was aware of 'proirity a droite', I've never noticed the red & white posts positioned at junctions as depicted in the link ??


 
They are a common occurrence in the Limousin area (very rural roads).

Your link is very interesting!


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## Crankarm (27 Mar 2012)

Is priorite a droite really not a symptom of the general mood in French politics rather than an arcane ambiguous custom of little relevance to modern day road manners or common sense?

I have driven a few hundred thousand kilometers in France and NEVER EVER had a problem with PaD. I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only place I ever found it was ever observed was on l' Arc de Triomphe being the national symbol of French identity and example to all French that their way of driving is correct and right, the Parisians cocking a Gallic snoot to those drivers from foreign jurisdictions with common sense and a more developed road sense who are reduced to pulp negotiating the l' AdT. I was more often driving a big white van when I went around it, several times.

How about concentrating on the numbers killed in RTAs in France which is far higher than the UK as also is drink driving? That the police have powers to levy substantial on the spot fines or get you in front of a local magistrate within hours should you commit a misdemeanour. France is a very beaurocratic country. If you break rules and you are caught .......... you are for the chop.

But if you like adhering to rules and the minutae of protocol then France is for you except when the French decide to spectacularly suspend the rules and it becomes a free for all - melee. Pffuffff! Euhhhh! Speaking good French helps such a lot.

I can whole heartedly recommend Stephen Clarke's comic books on France and the French. He is a bit like what Bill Bryson and Clive James are to the UK.

Cycling on the minor roads in France, through rural France, is a delight although busier and more major roads can be hazardous. The French are courteous to cyclists, that is cyclists who look like they are racing or club cyclists, but other types of cyclists, ie commuters or those who cycle because they eschew a car are despised and are fair game with any thing else that strays across the path of their vehicle.


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## asterix (2 Apr 2012)

> NEVER EVER had a problem with PaD. I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.


 
The road from my hameau emerges onto the main road and I have priorite a droite over main road traffic. The reason is that visibility at this junction is so poor that it's important for me to have the priority, otherwise main road traffic could simply plough into me and say I didn't look! As it is the onus is on them to look and be careful. A not unusual situation hereabouts.




> Cycling on the minor roads in France, through rural France, is a delight although busier and more major roads can be hazardous. The French are courteous to cyclists, that is cyclists who look like they are racing or club cyclists, but other types of cyclists, ie commuters or those who cycle because they eschew a car are despised and are fair game with any thing else that strays across the path of their vehicle.


 
IME different parts of France are.. er.. different. I don't ride a road bike, I have an audax bike and a tourer and yet even when I go out and do my shopping with panniers I still find that French drivers are courteous both in this area and also when I have toured in different parts. My French is very poor yet I do try to speak it and get along pretty well since most French people I meet are friendly and helpful (I tend to avoid Paris).



> If you break rules and you are caught .......... you are for the chop.


 
Having run a red in my van I was followed by a Gendarme who then stopped me and explained my misdemeanour (it was a kind of red you don't get in the UK and they have now changed the junction), I apologised and he told me not to do it again. I guess being courteous got me off! Nevertheless, the Gendarmes do give short shrift to speeders and such like (I have seen them hiding behind buildings and walls with their radars) and speed cameras are becoming less and less easy to spot.



> How about concentrating on the numbers killed in RTAs in France which is far higher than the UK as also is drink driving?


 
Whilst I wouldn't argue with that, it's worth bearing in mind that French roads in holiday season are stuffed with foreign drivers, Dutch, Belgian, German, Brits and the rest. Many of these drive like lunatics.. ..because they are on holiday? I avoid the main roads in August. It's also true that France is a much bigger country than the UK with a great number of rural roads, narrow and tortuous which lend themselves to accidents if you are careless or simply unaccustomed to such roads. In winter it is impossible to treat these roads (there are so many) and driving can be very treacherous. In February the temperature here was between 10 and 14 below for a fortnight and other parts of France several degrees colder. Unlike the UK it is a continental climate rather than that of an island washed by the Gulf Stream.


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## JC4LAB (11 Jun 2012)

Im not a long distance touring cyclist but just do short stuff as I stop too often to investigate the towns and villages I pass through ( I do 30-40 miles a day mostly on a Brompton folder)For anyone simlar or with just a few days.I ve done and can recommend..1.The Seine from Paris Versailles Rouen then up to Dieppe.(you get cheered as you pass though the villages).2.In Provence,Luberon Cycelway (for its perched viilages and Lavendar Trails (July) .3.The Loire.. Blois to the coast during Sunflower season.visiting the famous Chateaux en route.4.A long weekend of three or four Guided tours of Paris with Fat tire Bike tours(Paris by day,night ,Versailles ,Monets Gardens etc..dozens on em..recommend)..5 A journey along the French Riveria St Tropez to Menton beyhond Monaco on the coastal road..Linked that one with a visit to the Cannes Film Festival and Monaco Grand prix (Mid May).Its a very very scenic ride along a blue coved filled coast,via Antibbes,Juan les Pain, Nice.Monaco etc perfect for easy cycling..Plenty of cyclelanes on that route but some traffic bottlenecks and intense bits but nothing unmanageable.


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## nomdeplume (26 Jun 2012)

Hi, I am a Brit resident in France and am a keen cyclist. I can recommend cycling the canal towpaths, they are quiet, flat, and pass through beautiful areas. I have cycled from Royan to Sete along the canal Lateral de la Garonne and the Canal du Midi. Also many lesser waterways and this autumn plan to cycle from Paris along the Canal d'Ourcq, then join the Aisne, then the Oise to return to Paris.
Otherwise I cycle as much as possible on the 'chemins rural' equivalent to green lanes or public bridleways. I ride a Trek mountain bile mostly and am buying a Brompton shortly for ease of use on public transport though it will probably be unsuitable on the rough tracks. I will be pleased to assist anyone new to cycling in France.


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## Crankarm (12 Jul 2012)

nomdeplume said:


> Hi, I am a Brit resident in France and am a keen cyclist. I can recommend cycling the canal towpaths, they are quiet, flat, and pass through beautiful areas. I have cycled from Royan to Sete along the canal Lateral de la Garonne and the Canal du Midi. Also many lesser waterways and this autumn plan to cycle from Paris along the Canal d'Ourcq, then join the Aisne, then the Oise to return to Paris.
> Otherwise I cycle as much as possible on the 'chemins rural' equivalent to green lanes or public bridleways. I ride a Trek mountain bile mostly and am buying a Brompton shortly for ease of use on public transport though it will probably be unsuitable on the rough tracks. _*I will be pleased to assist anyone new to cycling in France*_.


 
Vous etes tres gentil. Merci beaucoups.


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## john xyz (12 Jul 2012)

nomdeplume said:


> Hi, I am a Brit resident in France and am a keen cyclist. I can recommend cycling the canal towpaths, they are quiet, flat, and pass through beautiful areas. I have cycled from Royan to Sete along the canal Lateral de la Garonne and the Canal du Midi. Also many lesser waterways and this autumn plan to cycle from Paris along the Canal d'Ourcq, then join the Aisne, then the Oise to return to Paris.
> Otherwise I cycle as much as possible on the 'chemins rural' equivalent to green lanes or public bridleways. I ride a Trek mountain bile mostly and am buying a Brompton shortly for ease of use on public transport though it will probably be unsuitable on the rough tracks. I will be pleased to assist anyone new to cycling in France.


 
Which part of France are you in?


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## nomdeplume (16 Jul 2012)

I am in Dept 79, Deux Sevres about 35km from Niort.


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## ceepeebee (13 Aug 2012)

I'm off to Normandy next week and the GLW has let me stick the bike on the back of the car - so I was just planning a route and on checking the junctions, have found a "Sauf Riverains" sign. Am I right in thinking this is indicating that the road is for local folks' access only? And would I get the bums rush if I tried riding up it (it goes by the delightful name of Rue D'enfer...)


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## Jimmy Doug (13 Aug 2012)

"Sauf riverains" means locals only. I wonder if the Rue d'enfer leads to the same place that I cycled past recently:


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## ceepeebee (13 Aug 2012)

Jimmy Doug said:


> "Sauf riverains" means locals only. I wonder if the Rue d'enfer leads to the same place that I cycled past recently:


nice - this one's a bit less nordic than that (have always wanted to go there mind)
Reckon I'd be ok going up there on a bike? or better staying on the main road into Pont L'eveque? (lovely lovely cheese)


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## Jimmy Doug (13 Aug 2012)

Sorry, I don't really understand your question. Where are you cycling from? Where is this Rue D'Enfer? I've found one near Pont l'Eveque - is it that? If so, I see no reason why you can't cycle there - although it looks a bit steep in places.


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## ceepeebee (13 Aug 2012)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Sorry, I don't really understand your question. Where are you cycling from? Where is this Rue D'Enfer? I've found one near Pont l'Eveque - is it that? If so, I see no reason why you can't cycle there - although it looks a bit steep in places.


doing a loop out from where we're staying down the road from Pl'E, but yes, didn't know if I'd get an irate gendarme coming after me for going through what looks like a no entry.

Does look a wee bit fierce in places though.....


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## Jimmy Doug (13 Aug 2012)

No, I don't think you should worry. The "sauf riverains" sign is really only directed at motorised traffic. I don't think anyone would even blink at a bicycle.


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## yello (13 Aug 2012)

That ^^^^

I've cycled down a few. With the exception of them possibly being a dead end, there oughtn't be a problem.


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## Rex (20 Aug 2012)

Iv'e just spent a non cycling holiday in Audresselles on the D940 . Not a very long trip but what a great road, Calais to Boulogne it must be for cyclists . As is usual plenty of good food stops in the villages along this coastal route . Couple of mini mountain passes . Iv'e driven all over France in the last 40 yrs and must say in general they are more courtious and patient than my local motorists. Even on the lovely Island of Corsica . Ordered my new bike and hopefully be over there on the D940 when the ferry prices drop to Autumn prices . Several nice inland trips from this route also notably Ambletuese to Bazinghen with it's nice hilltop estaminet ( pub/cafe)


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## Rex (20 Aug 2012)

Forgot to add, yes learn a little French . I went to local evening classes and 'get by' now . Politeness very important to French, Bonjoir,Merci etc .


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## wintonbina (20 Aug 2012)

I agree with most of the above. The French are, in the whole very respectful of cyclists, their roads are brilliant and they have the best cake shops in the world! And yes, a few words go down very well in cafes, bars & shops


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## Jimmy Doug (21 Aug 2012)

Rex said:


> Iv'e just spent a non cycling holiday in Audresselles on the D940 . Not a very long trip but what a great road, Calais to Boulogne it must be for cyclists . As is usual plenty of good food stops in the villages along this coastal route . Couple of mini mountain passes . Iv'e driven all over France in the last 40 yrs and must say in general they are more courtious and patient than my local motorists. Even on the lovely Island of Corsica . Ordered my new bike and hopefully be over there on the D940 when the ferry prices drop to Autumn prices . Several nice inland trips from this route also notably Ambletuese to Bazinghen with it's nice hilltop estaminet ( pub/cafe)


 
I've been thinking about taking my family for a small cycling tour along the north coast. I might try this.


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## Jimmy Doug (21 Aug 2012)

wintonbina said:


> I agree with most of the above. The French are, in the whole very respectful of cyclists, their roads are brilliant and they have the best cake shops in the world! And yes, a few words go down very well in cafes, bars & shops


 
Now you know why I moved here in the first place!


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## deptfordmarmoset (21 Aug 2012)

Rex said:


> Iv'e just spent a non cycling holiday in Audresselles on the D940 . Not a very long trip but what a great road, Calais to Boulogne it must be for cyclists . As is usual plenty of good food stops in the villages along this coastal route . Couple of mini mountain passes . Iv'e driven all over France in the last 40 yrs and must say in general they are more courtious and patient than my local motorists. Even on the lovely Island of Corsica . Ordered my new bike and hopefully be over there on the D940 when the ferry prices drop to Autumn prices . Several nice inland trips from this route also notably Ambletuese to Bazinghen with it's nice hilltop estaminet ( pub/cafe)


Yes, it's a pleasant road once you get out of Calais. I did it for the 3rd stage of the TdF at Boulogne this year. So did several hundred other Brit cyclists and it really had the air of an invasion. I found the hills, where the road cuts inland at capes surprisingly hard work in a strongish headwind but I don't think they actually rise more than 100m.


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## Rex (21 Aug 2012)

In my opinion the Cote d'Opal a highly underrated area . Even Calais now being smartened up and lot's of free car parking . Yes,It can be a bit windblown.


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## Rex (21 Aug 2012)

I can recommend this Chambres d'Hote (B & B)http://www.kerloan.com/ Don't be put off by the Sangatte name . It's a spik and span village with a brilliant beach . Good starting point for D940.


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## fudgepanda (25 Aug 2012)

I don't know if anyone has come across this association before and the properties tend to occupy the opposite end of the price spectrum from the likes of Formul 1 or Campanille with room rates from around 75 Euros up to 120 per room per night including (in most cases) breakfast for two. Their properties extend from the Pas de Calais (ish) over to Britanny and from there down the country from the west side of Paris as far as La Rochelle. We've stayed in a couple of properties and were very pressed by the accomodation especially as most houses have a maximum of 5 rooms available, some as few as one or two, so although it costs a lot more than the majority of small hotels, you do feel as if you're house guests of the owner. Quite a few owners are Vimcomte and Vicomtesse.

http://www.bienvenueauchateau.com/index.php?lang=2


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## Rex (25 Aug 2012)

Gites de France/Chambres d'Hote website. Over the years Iv'e been lucky enough to travel over lots of France . A work collegue went with me a couple of years ago and his request was to stay in B & B so that he could meet some French people . As I had never done this, mostly staying wit friends or in motels I was a little concerned as to how things would turn out . We stayed near St Omer,also in the Champagne region and the next year in Normandy . Each Chambres d'Hote(B & B) was absolutely superb. I'm fussy and find hotels most often don't come up to scratch . Each one of these establishments was beautifluy decorated and extremely clean . The bath/shower rooms seemed to be newly installed . The owners were charming and helpful and supplied an excellent French breakfast, muesli, cerial, fresh fruit, of course lovely bread,sometimes ham or cheese etc etc , in a lovely large breakfast room. We thought we had just 'stuck lucky' at the first place but as they all turned out to be of a very high standard I don't think this could really be so . Don't expect bacon and eggs though !


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## Rex (25 Aug 2012)

I'm sure lots of people know of this site but anyway....http://en.gites-de-france.com/vacation-rentals-bed-breakfasts,b-and-b-r1-liste.html?critinit=O French B & B


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## Licramite (30 Aug 2012)

Hi
I,m looking to do the normandy coast, heytesbury to poole, cherbourg to caen, southhampton to home
and was wondering whats the law on cyclists in france as in kit.
Helmet - compulsory or not
bell - ?
lights - even if its daylight -?
breathilizer kit - ?
red warning triangle - ?
high viz jacket -?
first aid kit -?
insurance ?

thier seams to be no laws in britain (that are enforced) thought the french might have some.
annoyingly when I lived in germany I didn,t cycle so I don,t know whats compulsory thier either.


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## Rex (30 Aug 2012)

This site is of some help but hopefully someone on here will be able to give some first hand information.
http://about-france.com/tourism/cycling-holidays.htm


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## Licramite (30 Aug 2012)

thanks - all sound eminently sound rules.
 

To be roadworthy, bicycles must be equipped with a bell, fully functioning brakes, and after dark with reflectors and front and rear lights. 
The wearing of cyclists' crash helmets is not compulsory in France, but is strongly advised. Cyclists must also wear a high-visibility waistcoat if cycling after dark outside urban areas.
In urban streets, cyclists must use the marked cycle lanes where these exist.
Cyclists must obey traffic signs and signals in the same way as other road users; this includes respecting "no entry", "one way" and "stop" signs. 
Like cars, cyclists riding behind each other on a roadway are obliged to keep a safe distance between them. Cyclists may ride two-abreast, but only during hours of daylight. At night, single file cycling is obligatory.
Drinking and cycling: cyclists are subject to the same alcohol limits as other road users. Cycling while under the influence of alcohol can lead to a hefty fine, the impounding of the cycle, and/or the withdrawal of the cyclist's vehicle licence if he/she has one.


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## roundisland (7 Sep 2012)

It may have been mentioned before, I've not read all replies. When I toured the south of France my tent pegs weren't man enough to break into the sun baked rocky soil. I ended up buying 6" nails with penny washers which worked brilliantly.


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## nomdeplume (11 Sep 2012)

Useful website for cycling in France www.af3v.org . (only in French at the moment).


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## zomarzi (12 Sep 2012)

Wouldn't it be great to have someone like you JD to give brief practical advice tips for most european countrys we cyclists vist much in the same way as you've done here, bravo amigo.


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## mark2096 (9 May 2013)

I've cycled in the UK, France, Italy, Hungary, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Canada and the U.S. and would agree that France probably tops the list, although Italy is nice and the Danube / Donau cycle paths in Germany and Austria are very hard to beat (at least for casual tripping). What I have done to share the experience is post the maps of my route, some pictures taken along the way and some descriptive info at www.mycycletour.com . It's a fairly new site, and there's not much on France but it's a good place to share info. There's even a bulletin board for each route created.


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## nomdeplume (18 May 2013)

Having lived, cycled and driven in France for 18 years, I would like to say a few words in support of French drivers; they have much improved in recent years. This is because the government, appalled by the slaughter on the roads has enforced speed limits, installed speed cameras, and traffic-calming measures. For example, the use of a GPS with a speed camera detector is illegal, and drink-driving limits are lower than the UK.
Cycling is no problem provided you make yourself visible and wear a helmet.


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## Poacher (18 May 2013)

nomdeplume said:


> Having lived, cycled and driven in France for 18 years, I would like to say a few words in support of French drivers; they have much improved in recent years. This is because the government, appalled by the slaughter on the roads has enforced speed limits, installed speed cameras, and traffic-calming measures. For example, the use of a GPS with a speed camera detector is illegal, and drink-driving limits are lower than the UK.
> Cycling is no problem provided you make yourself visible and *wear a helmet*.


 
Whoops! When did that become compulsory? Looks like France has just joined Spain on the short list of countries I won't be revisiting for cycling holidays!  Shame, 'cos I really enjoyed the last three visits, so much that I was seriously considering emigrating at some point.


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## Jimmy Doug (19 May 2013)

Poacher said:


> Whoops! When did that become compulsory? Looks like France has just joined Spain on the short list of countries I won't be revisiting for cycling holidays!  Shame, 'cos I really enjoyed the last three visits, so much that I was seriously considering emigrating at some point.


 
Well, you can put France right back on your list. Nondeplume never said it was compulsory in his post, just advisable. It is compulsory to have a bell, which is rarely enforced (but very necessary if you're cycling in Paris) and it's also compulsory to wear reflective clothing in the dark (but a lot of people don't even bother to have lights).


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## dragon72 (7 Jun 2013)

Another defense of French drivers from me.
After approximately 10,000kms ridden over various summer and easter tours in France, I haven't had a single incident with a car. On the rare occasion a car has passed me too close for comfort, the car in question has invariably sported a white sticker with the letters GB on it. Funny, because you'd think, what with the steering wheel being on the gutter side of the car in France, that they'd judge the space a bit better...


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## dragon72 (7 Jun 2013)

When using a French computer, and you're only familiar with QWERTY keyboards, budget an extra 30 mins to send a short email while you're hunting for characters on their AZERTY keyboards.


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## Lyn (13 Jun 2013)

Further to the compulsory/not-compulsory points about helmets/bells/high viz vests, I've never had a problem with any of these - never been stopped for not having a bell or not wearing a vest outside an urban area. I do wear one when it's particularly bleak but the law is really left open to the interpretation of local police - eg when is the weather poor enough to justify a vest one?; where does the urban area technically end?; etc etc.


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## BarryBonkers (24 Jun 2013)

The best reason for visiting France.


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## john xyz (8 Jul 2013)

We found last year that it was difficult keeping water from going hot. August was hot, and on mainly back roads from Calais to Paris, shops were closed naturally between 1 and 4 and usually didn't pass any at other times. Stopped a couple of times at houses where locals were in their gardens and asked for fresh supplies!

Thinking that vacuum flasks are the way to go maybe - anyone have any experience of this?


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## BarryBonkers (8 Jul 2013)

john xyz said:


> Thinking that vacuum flasks are the way to go maybe - anyone have any experience of this?


 
Yeah, and finding water is even more difficult in Spain. The way the shops are closed during the afternoon turns the towns into ghost towns. Perhaps the locals have got it right, though. Who but an Englishman would cycle in the heat of the afternoon? 

Honestly, I got used to drinking hot water. They say cold water can cause stomach cramps. Bigger bottles might help, though. There's plenty of time to contemplate the benefits of large bottles while grinding into a 35C headwind along a deserted country road.  If I did it again, I would take one of these:

Topeak Modular Cage XL, height adjustable cage. Fits 1-1.5 litre bottles. This is the one I'd get.

Topeak Modular Java Cage, fits 16 oz. containers, so it might be good for an insulated bottle.

BBB Fueltank XL


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## RobH (11 Jul 2013)

In France, cemetaries - which are usually well signposted - will always have a tap from which you can top up your water bottle. I've done this any number of times.


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## john xyz (11 Jul 2013)

Interesting cages there. I also see you can get 1000cl bottles...

Cemeteries, good call - wonder if its always drinking water though...


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## mcr (14 Jul 2013)

john xyz said:


> Cemeteries, good call - wonder if its always drinking water though...


 
The French are usually quite good about labelling taps as 'eau potable' or 'eau non potable'.

Off-topic geographically, but reminds me of a Crazy Guy journal I read of an American cycling round Germany who was amazed at all the little drinking-water taps everywhere labelled 'Klein Trinkwasser', not realising there was no 'l' in the first word (he didn't seem to come to any digestive trouble, though). (Non-German-speakers will have to use Google Translate.)


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## RobH (19 Jul 2013)

john xyz said:


> Interesting cages there. I also see you can get 1000cl bottles...
> 
> Cemeteries, good call - wonder if its always drinking water though...


Well, I've only my own experience to go by, but I've used them plenty of times with no ill effects.


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## DooDah (24 Jul 2013)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been living and cycling in France since 1998, which is starting to feel like a long time! Now, a few months ago, I had the idea of creating a web site about cycling in France. However, through lack of time, illness, and seeing that other people have done a far better job than I could ever do, I abandoned the idea. But I thought I could at least salvage some of the work I'd done - and the part that I thought would be most useful would be the section where I gave some general practical advice on cycling in France. Maybe this could be useful to people who are thinking of cycling in France for the first time. Perhaps other people could do something similar on the countries where they live? That'd be really great!
> Anyway, here it is. I hope it will be of use to someone sometime. I must remind you though that these are my personal opinions, and so others may not agree with everything I've written - especially my tirade on the priorité à droite rule!
> ...


 
Hi Jimmy,

Very interesting read. I have lived in France for the last twelve years so I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly the priorite a droite. It still catches me out when I am driving, but I tend to be more cautious on my bike. One important thing to note is to pay attention at roundabouts. french people rarely know which lane to be in and when to indicate (in fact most don't bother). French friends of mine say that roundabouts are a stupid English invention. You will sometimes find people indicating right to take the first exit when in fact they are going straight on, they will never indicate left if they are taking the last exit etc. So generally it is better to stop, wait and see.



> *Driver mentality*
> Despite considerable progress in recent years, some of the French motorists are still very aggressive. I know you'll meet this problem wherever you go, and some countries have a much bigger driver attitude problem than France, but France nevertheless seems to have more than its fair share of drivers who treat other road users like their enemy. This aggression, together with the fact that too many people seem to consider the maximum speed limit to be more a minimum speed limit, is obviously more dangerous to cyclists than probably any other road user


It maybe area dependent but I disagree with the aggression of French drivers. IMO most French drivers are way less aggressive then in the UK (cities apart), just very impatient. I think French people generally consider speed limits more, other than on very fast roads (which you would not want to be cycling on anyway). Also, you have to remember that in rural France the roads are very quiet, so there will always be a few fast drivers around.



> *Roads*
> French road surfaces are usually good to excellent


 
In my region of South-West France this is certainly not the case. At best they are moderate, and sometimes bloody awful. The authorities here seem to be happy to spend on the fast roads, but not on secondary or tertiary roads.

A very informative read though. This website maybe of interest to you: http://www.freewheelingfrance.com/


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## Jimmy Doug (19 Aug 2013)

DooDah said:


> Hi Jimmy,
> 
> Very interesting read. I have lived in France for the last twelve years so I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly the priorite a droite. It still catches me out when I am driving, but I tend to be more cautious on my bike. One important thing to note is to pay attention at roundabouts. french people rarely know which lane to be in and when to indicate (in fact most don't bother). French friends of mine say that roundabouts are a stupid English invention. You will sometimes find people indicating right to take the first exit when in fact they are going straight on, they will never indicate left if they are taking the last exit etc. So generally it is better to stop, wait and see.
> 
> ...


 
Hi DooDah,

I first wrote this about three years ago - and a few things have changed since then. But I still believe that the French can be very aggressive drivers - although considerable progress has been made. I've just come back from a couple of weeks in the south-east, and I was amazed by the improvement since last time I went, eight years ago. However, let me qualify what I said: I find the French can be aggressive drivers to other drivers - and yes it is area dependant - but rarely are they aggressive to cyclists. In fact, I'd say that France is probably one of the most tolerant countries vis-à-vis cyclists that I've ever been to - and England increasingly the worst!
Concerning road surfaces - it's true that they're not always good to excellent. Sometimes they can be bloody awful! But it's quite a relative thing. Compared to some countries I've cycled in, France's roads really are very good indeed. However, it's true that as towns have their own road-budget and some towns can tax residents for road improvements more than others, it's true that you can find some appalling examples. On my commute, for instance, there's a road that's so bad I have to slow right down and weave around from pot-hole to pot-hole. But that's only one town - the other 29 kilometres are very smooth. It's certainly true that the authorities prefer to look after the fast roads - just like the SNCF prefers TGVs!


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## asterix (13 Sep 2013)

It's those northern French. The Limousin IME is more civilised with a very high standard of driving.

The problem with the North is that it is too close too close to Belgium, a country with the worst drivers in that part of Europe, except Paris. Mind you, most times I am driving a white van so I don't really notice.


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## nomdeplume (14 Sep 2013)

If you want to know what French driving was like about 20 years ago, go to Spain. The drivers disregard speed limits apparently with impunity, kids on motor scooters do not wear helmets, weather conditions do not change speed of driving. French drivers are paragons in comparison though at one time they were as bad as the Spanish.


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## Jimmy Doug (15 Sep 2013)

Have any of you seen this great map? It shows how many deaths there were per 100 000 people in 2010. I discovered it after watching _Click_. It shows that on a European scale, France is still one of the countries with the worst records for road safety: 6.4 deaths per year, as against 3.7 in the UK and 5.4 in Spain. However, on the world scale, France doesn't do too bad: 41.7% in the Dominican Republic (!) and a surprising 11.4% in the US. The map also breaks down these statistics. For example, we learn that of the French deaths 3.7% were cyclists and 12.2% were pedestrians whilst in the UK the figures are 5.8 and 12.8 respectively. Of course, these statistics don't actually explain the cause. For example, the fact that only 12% of the deaths recorded in the US were pedestrians might be accounted for by the fact that no-one walks anywhere in the US!


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## asterix (16 Sep 2013)

It occurs to me when I am trundling around the French roads that one of the characteristics of France that is different to the UK is the nature of the entire road system.

The population is well distributed and less concentrated into urban areas than in the UK. There is a huge road network (1,000,960 km*) with technically 'difficult' driving conditions on quite a good proportion. Most accidents (they are not collisions) in our area are from vehicles leaving the road and very often being stopped by a tree or falling into a ravine. Even the autoroutes have worse bends and the A20 is subject to soil movement that can give quite an interesting ride on one stretch. France has mountainous regions that dwarf those in the UK, all of which are populated and have many 'difficult' roads.

In the UK it is relatively easy to salt roads confined in small areas whereas in our part of France for example they salt very few roads in winter. You're on your own, pal. **

*the UK has 398,350 km.
** In York, probably elsewhere, councils are proposing to cut back considerably on road salting this winter.


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## briantrumpet (16 Sep 2013)

asterix said:


> There is a huge road network (1,000,960 km*) with technically 'difficult' driving conditions on quite a good proportion. Most accidents (they are not collisions) in our area are from vehicles leaving the road and very often being stopped by a tree or falling into a ravine. Even the autoroutes have worse bends and the A20 is subject to soil movement that can give quite an interesting ride on one stretch. France has mountainous regions that dwarf those in the UK, all of which are populated and have many 'difficult' roads.


On my latest stay I was musing on the criteria that they use in deciding when to put in crash barriers on mountain roads - there are several that I keep a little way away from the edge, as there's no more than a few inches of kerb with steep and long inclines the other side ... but the formula, I reckon, seems to be: "Hmm, they'll get badly hurt if they go over here, but probably won't die, because they'll get caught in the trees" = small kerb; "They'll probably die if they go over here" = crash barrier. I might have the details wrong, but that seems to be the sentiment behind most of the choices. I can see the logic, because if they started putting crash barriers on every "they'll get badly hurt" roads, they'd have to do thousands of miles more roads.


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## jay clock (18 Sep 2013)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Have any of you seen this great map? It shows how many deaths there were per 100 000 people in 2010. I discovered it after watching _Click_. It shows that on a European scale, France is still one of the countries with the worst records for road safety: 6.4 deaths per year, as against 3.7 in the UK and 5.4 in Spain. However, on the world scale, France doesn't do too bad: 41.7% in the Dominican Republic (!) and a surprising 11.4% in the US. The map also breaks down these statistics. For example, we learn that of the French deaths 3.7% were cyclists and 12.2% were pedestrians whilst in the UK the figures are 5.8 and 12.8 respectively. Of course, these statistics don't actually explain the cause. For example, the fact that only 12% of the deaths recorded in the US were pedestrians might be accounted for by the fact that no-one walks anywhere in the US!


In 1999 I moved there and the UK was 6.6 and France was 14.4. Attitudes to booze are still a problem, but there has been a massive improvement


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## oldfatfool (18 Sep 2013)

Scary stuff, Came across maybe a km of very loose surface dressing maybe 5km up the Col de Sarenne on approx 8% grade. Hope this is not going to become a common occurrence, those descending onto it where not happy bunnies.Come to think of it ascending wasn't exactly fun due to wheel spin, ended up walking


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## Manu3172 (16 Dec 2013)

Hi Jimmy,

Great post. All what you wrote is very true.
About agressive drivers, it gets worse when going southward :-(


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## nomdeplume (17 Dec 2013)

A new cycle route is France is to be inaugurated in 2014 between Ouistreham and La Rochelle, to be called 'Veloroute 43', 603 km. Apparently cyclists contribute 70€/day to the local economy against 60€ for motorists.
Nothing on the Web yet.


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## looe (20 Dec 2013)

Veloroute 43 http://www.emotion-marais-poitevin....-marais-poitevin/la-veloroute-V43-niort-ocean


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## bigjim (29 Jan 2014)

I find that it is definately worse down South. In the chaos of Paris the drivers were great [http://adenough1.blogspot.co.uk/] but in Biarritz we were abused a few times.


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## Liz Davies BHT (23 Apr 2014)

Thanks for this Jimmy! 
I'm organizing a charity cycle ride in France this year so I will share this with our riders :-)

Liz


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## Jimmy Doug (24 Apr 2014)

Liz Davies BHT said:


> Thanks for this Jimmy!
> I'm organizing a charity cycle ride in France this year so I will share this with our riders :-)
> 
> Liz



Hi Liz. No probs. Glad you found it useful. May I ask where you're going?


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## CycleShorts101 (29 Jun 2014)

"on some lines you must take the bicycle to pieces and put it in a bicycle bag. This is obviously no use to touring cyclists who can't cart a bulky bike bag around with them"

You could buy a lightweight 'Housse' bag to get around this problem.

http://www.cyclehoussebags.co.uk


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## nomdeplume (9 Jul 2014)

If you want to take your bike on the TGV train you must remove the wheels and use a 'housse'. If you are touring you have to carry the housse which is a pain in the housse as it is fairly bulky. Using the TER train is not a problem as hooks are provided to hang the bike though apparently the newer TER trains do not have this facility


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## PaulSB (24 Jul 2014)

Some brief observations on this topic. Tonight I completed a tour from St Malo to Bordeaux via La Loire and Dordogne. 

Throughout the trip people were incredibly helpful and kind.

In just under 700 miles I saw less than 10 serious potholes. At no point in suburban or rural areas did I come across "priorite a droit". In fact in 35 years of visiting France I've probably only seen it 5-6 times and those would have been many years ago. 

Carry plenty of food and water and top up at every opportunity. Rural France can be VERY rural and not every village will have a shop or if it does the opening hours are for locals not touring cyclists. 

France can be very hot. Some days I was drinking 6-7 litres of fluids. Peanuts helped a lot with the salt loss. 

I found accommodation difficult to get some nights - I B&B not camp. So be sure the place you are heading for is open and available. 

If like me you usually unclip the left foot first, learn to unclip the right first as you'll need to.


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## Crankarm (24 Jul 2014)

CycleShorts101 said:


> "on some lines you must take the bicycle to pieces and put it in a bicycle bag. This is obviously no use to touring cyclists who can't cart a bulky bike bag around with them"
> 
> You could buy a lightweight 'Housse' bag to get around this problem.
> 
> http://www.cyclehoussebags.co.uk



They look as if they could get around the problem until Eurostar/SNCF decide they want to prohibit bikes altogether. £69.99 is a tad steep for a sheath. My Brompton didn't cause any problems when I went to Biarritz on the Eurostar and the TGV in 2004.


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## DooDah (25 Jul 2014)

PaulSB said:


> Some brief observations on this topic. Tonight I completed a tour from St Malo to Bordeaux via La Loire and Dordogne.
> 
> Throughout the trip people were incredibly helpful and kind.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by you did not come across it? It exists everywhere, particularly in rural areas. Quite simply if there is a junction without road markings then you have to give priority to the rights. I know two Brits who have written off their vehicles as they were unaware of this.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jul 2014)

PaulSB said:


> At no point in suburban or rural areas did I come across "priorite a droit". In fact in 35 years of visiting France I've probably only seen it 5-6 times and those would have been many years ago



I'm sorry, but I'm really going to have to take issue with this. I would suggest that it's more a case that you've only _noticed_ priorité à droite 5-6 times rather than actually not come across it. I want this to be very clear - it's one of the reason's why I mentioned it in my post: _priorité à droite is everywhere in France and it is very often not signalled. _Over the past 16 years I've lived in Le Havre, Nantes, Paris, Lyon, and now near Amiens, I've also travelled extensively in France and, although it varies from region to region, you cannot escape it. Probably you've been doing what most Brits do, what I did for a long time: sail past them blissfully without even realizing you've not respected the rules, or wondered why someone has pulled out in front of you (but it's true that most French drivers are very respectful to cyclists so this doesn't tend to happen - but it's happened to me a few times when I hadn't realised I'd _grillé une priorité à droite.)_
I'd lived here for about two years before I really did start to understand the extent of this rule. I'd known about the marked _priorité à droite_ but rarely came across them. What took me so long to realise/accept was that this is a fundamental rule on French roads and applies _at every junction unless marked otherwise._ And accidents do happen - often. Someone I know was recently involved in a car crash when a vehicle suddenly came in from the right and it was claimed to be his fault because it was _priorité à droite._ The fact that he didn't even see the road until it was too late was of no difference.
Some places are more fond of the rule than others. I think it's less common in Britanny - but in the Paris area, for example, it's everywhere (and here you'll still find some roundabouts that are _priorité à droite, _which is thankfully rare elsewhere these days_)_. Also, it's true that this is a common rule that applies in most of Europe not just in France. However, it is particularly frequent here and doesn't seem to be going away (in one of the villages near where I live a road has very recently been changed to become _priorité à droite._)
Just to be even more clear, here are some examples from around my area. It's literally everywhere.

This is the typical scenario:

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.4478...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1swCvpGoo3jU92o2gX3If-IQ!2e0


This one here is marked. It never used to be. Probably there were loads of accidents at this point:

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.3194...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNe-6_dOz8krQoqPeoQ09Mg!2e0

Usually it's more like this. This junction is only metres from the other, going the other way (obviously you'd be on the other side of the road). Notice there's no line on the road branching off from the road you're on here - that means priorité à droite. Still, at least you can see this one ... often that's not the case until you've gone past it:

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.3188...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ssejMmxCgFgUYJ_YGs2XQug!2e0


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## Dogtrousers (25 Jul 2014)

Key signs to understand are the yellow diamond/slanted square with or without a black line through it, and the slanted x crossroads sign. Some pics here.
http://maisonlaudiere.com/13.html But as @Jimmy Doug says, it may not be explicitly signed.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jul 2014)

The problem with priorité a droite is that signage is rare. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the rule if the junctions were all explicitily marked, but few are. The first junction I provided a link to is, by a small cross 100 metres before (that you'll probably miss if you're not looking for it):

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.4472...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfQiOroSM_zmvW2zJMu85Wg!2e0

The second one never used to be, but in the last couple of years is now marked with a line in the road. The third is the more typical case, no sign at all. Go backwards as far as you like, but you'll see no warning at all.


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## DooDah (25 Jul 2014)

Jimmy Doug said:


> The problem with priorité a droite is that signage is rare. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the rule if the junctions were all explicitily marked, but few are. The first junction I provided a link to is, by a small cross 100 metres before (that you'll probably miss if you're not looking for it):
> 
> https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.4472...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfQiOroSM_zmvW2zJMu85Wg!2e0
> 
> The second one never used to be, but in the last couple of years is now marked with a line in the road. The third is the more typical case, no sign at all. Go backwards as far as you like, but you'll see no warning at all.


Agreed, where I used to live there was a very straight road of about 6km long that went from hill to valley to hill. In the valley about 4km along there is a right turn which you must give priority to. The problem is that it is hidden by a poplar wood and you only have about 30 metres warning. There have been several severe accidents there, including a friend who wrote off his van, yet still no signs to warn people.


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jul 2014)

[QUOTE 3197374, member: 259"]It's not just in France, in most European countries where there are no signs to the contrary, priority to the right is the rule.

In my experience it's the Dutch are probably the most fundamentalist about always taking their priority. They might as well not bother with left hand driver-side car windows there.[/QUOTE]

Yes, priorité à droite seems to be the norm in most countries on the continent. I was amazed to see it in Norway too. But I haven't been to any country where it's so prevalent, or so poorly marked, as in France. I haven't been to the Netherlands yet so I can't compare it with France. In any case, for me it's the big, black stain on the French road system which is otherwise excellent.


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## yello (25 Jul 2014)

I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.

So ingrained is it that you'll see it being adhered to in supermarket car parks. Cripes, probably even supermarket aisles too!!

Tbh, I can see the logic behind it, and almost like it. It's a clear and unambiguous default position that everyone knows. That's not to say that it doesn't catch me out, because it does, nor does it appear to make sense in all situations BUT I've not been brought up with it. Further, if I do get it wrong then I KNOW it - regardless of what I think, whether I think it's daft or otherwise, it's clearly evident what I should have done and who had priority.


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## DooDah (25 Jul 2014)

yello said:


> I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.
> 
> So ingrained is it that you'll see it being adhered to in supermarket car parks. Cripes, probably even supermarket aisles too!!
> 
> Tbh, I can see the logic behind it, and almost like it. It's a clear and unambiguous default position that everyone knows. That's not to say that it doesn't catch me out, because it does, nor does it appear to make sense in all situations BUT I've not been brought up with it. Further, if I do get it wrong then I KNOW it - regardless of what I think, whether I think it's daft or otherwise, it's clearly evident what I should have done and who had priority.


I think @jimmydoug does get it, quite clearly in fact. I think all he is saying is for people who don't live in France, or go there very often, it can be almost impossible to know that it exists. I will have you know that it also catches many french people out as well, even though they are aware of it, there are frequent road junctions in almost invisible positions that are not signposted either (I am talking rural france here), so giving way to the right is difficult if you don't know the junction exists. Imagine a tourist in these situations!


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## yello (25 Jul 2014)

I know it catches some French drivers out. I also see it strictly adhered to, more often than not in fact. I neither attack nor defend the rule, I merely say that I understand it and why it applies.

You make the point yourself doodah, French drivers know it applies. So if they get it wrong they equally know and accept (hopefully!) that they've got in wrong.

The alternative is to sign every single junction in the country. And we both know that's not going to happen. No, priorité à droite exists, for all it's peculiarities, to give a clear ruling for unmarked junction control. It's not perfect but it prevents ( for the most part) chaos.

I accept it's a difficult one for foreigners to get to grips with but, let's be honest, it is pretty straight forward and easy to comprehend.


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## DooDah (25 Jul 2014)

yello said:


> I know it catches some French drivers out. I also see it strictly adhered to, more often than not in fact. I neither attack nor defend the rule, I merely say that I understand it and why it applies.
> 
> You make the point yourself doodah, French drivers know it applies. So if they get it wrong they equally know and accept (hopefully!) that they've got in wrong.
> 
> ...


Yes, but it is not easy to comprehend when you cannot see the junction, travelling at 90kmh with no signs or road markings. Even French people think this is a disgrace, as do the Gendarmes who are called out to numerous incidents, yet still nothing is done. I agree, that it works generally and is easy to comprehend if one knows that it exists in the first place. I have known many Brits, who have lived in France for years, who look bewildered when I have mentioned the concept, herein lies the problem. From that perspective we are the enlightened ones


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## Jimmy Doug (25 Jul 2014)

yello said:


> I don't think you're quite getting if JD. It's not marked because it's the default action. Signs override it or reinstate it but if there is nothing to say otherwise then it applies. Everywhere.



I do get it. This is what I said in reply to PaulSB's post:



Jimmy Doug said:


> I'd lived here for about two years before I really did start to understand the extent of this rule. I'd known about the marked _priorité à droite_ but rarely came across them. What took me so long to realise/accept was that this is a fundamental rule on French roads and applies _at every junction unless marked otherwise._



The question is less for me whether it's a good rule or not, but whether it's consistent or not - which it isn't because, as I said in my very first post, you can find a junction that is priorité à droite in a village shortly followed by one that isn't (or vice versa). And I do think it's dangerous when it's applied to roads that you can't even see. All rules of the road are there to make driving/cycling safer. If a rule has the converse effect, which priorité à droite does in some places (the roads coming from the right that you can't see) then it isn't a good rule. The fact that PaulSB says he's been cycling in France for 35 years and hardly ever come across a priorité à droite is a case in point. What I hoped to do in my original post was alert visitors to France that this rule exists and that you have to be aware of it when cycling here.


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## yello (26 Jul 2014)

Jimmy Doug said:


> What I hoped to do in my original post was alert visitors to France that this rule exists and that you have to be aware of it when cycling here.



100% agreement. It is most definitely something to be aware of.

I was picking up on your comment of pad being "poorly marked". My point was it doesn't need to be signed as it's the default position, it exists in the absence of signage. I can see you realise that so perhaps I took your comment out of context.

I too was keen that visitors to France understood the rule, and not to depend on, or look for, a sign to tell them whether pad applies or not. People are better off thinking of it as _always_ applying unless local signing overrides it.


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## PaulSB (30 Jul 2014)

Having read the responses, which are as anticipated, I think I need to respond. The link below gives, what seems to me, a very good summary of the current position. I'd add I think it is good practice when driving abroad to be wary of any junction of any description whether on car or bike. My view is if I'm not certain stop or slow sufficiently to be sure of avoiding a crash be it from left, right or oncoming vehicles. Much the same applies at home, especially when on a bike, I would expect to be aware of the potential danger from any vehicle at any junction regardless of the road signage.

http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/priority-a-droite.htm and to take just one quote from the link:

"The overriding rule of the road in France is Priorité a Droite which basically means that you must give way to traffic coming from your right. It is an archaic law that dates back to the times of the horse and cart and for some unknown reason has never been repealed. It is true to say however that the French have spent thousands of millions of Euros to indicate that it does not apply in most circumstances."

As for "priorite a droite" I believe its potential "danger" (for want of a better word) is over-emphasised. I'm very familiar with the black "crossed-road" red triangle, very common in rural areas in my experience, and the yellow diamond and would respect them both. In saying I've only come across priorite a droite on 5-6 occasions I mean only experienced instances where a driver has clearly expected me to give priority. This is not because I speed along French roads blissfully ignoring the rule or other road users. As a cyclist it's the last thing I'm likely to do as I regard every vehicle as a potential hazard. Equally I'm not going to drive or cycle round France looking to exercise my "priorite a droite" at every opportunity! If I'm joining what is clearly a more major road I'll wait for a suitable gap. Commonsense.

The reality is the rule is frequently governed by local signage or road markings which usually give priority to the major route. It is something road users should be aware of, it is not a national hazard! I'd repeat in 35 years of driving and cycling in France it has never been a problem and I can't recall any of my French friends having an issue with it when I've been a car passenger. Half of France is not going to pull out in front of you from the right.

As for Holland? I worked for a Dutch owned company for 10 years, visited, drove and was driven by Dutch, French and German drivers on many occasions in The Netherlands. Until it was suggested in this thread I was totally unaware of, and never saw an instance of, the same rule applying in Holland.


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## PaulSB (30 Jul 2014)

More interesting I hope was my experience of bikes and trains. I've only once, last Friday, traveled with a bike by train. I arrived at Bordeaux station at 10.20 wanting to go to Nice. There was a train at 10.47 but unfortunately by the time I had organised where to go and what I needed to do I was just too late, on the advice of the very helpful young woman selling me a ticket, and took a train at 13.30. The trip was Bordeaux > Marseille > change > Nice by Inter City train. The Marseille train had space for at least 7 cycles but was clearly signed tandems and, what I think translated to, trailers were not permitted. Cycle storage was in a carriage designed for bikes, wheel chair users and young families with the provision of a play area. I was given a reserved seat in this carriage. The carriage was older than some others on the train and not of the standard I'd expect in the UK but was clean and comfortable though the seating could be better. There was plenty of room in the design, much more than at home. The second carriage on the Marseille to Nice train was more modern and had 6 cycle spaces. I didn't notice anything relating to tandems or trailers. On this train the lady conductor was very concerned the bike was OK and I felt happy I could keep an eye on it. She even came to find me to make sure I didn't forget the bike at Nice!!

Buying a ticket and availability was not a problem though I'm sure there are times when it's not so simple. The hardest part was getting the loaded bike up rather steep steps and through what I thought to be narrow doors.

My other tip for France would be to be aware there is often sharp sand containing small stones in places you might pull into on the roadside. Seemed much more frequent to me than in the UK. After one puncture I started running my hand over the tyre before setting off after a stop.


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## PaulSB (30 Jul 2014)

[QUOTE 3205473, member: 259"]The you were _extremely_ lucky. 

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Booklet Road traffic signs and regulations in the Netherlands_tcm174-337519.pdf[/QUOTE]

Happy to accept that. As I say in 10 years never heard it mentioned or was aware of it being observed. I still visit occasionally and will be aware in future


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## mikeIow (6 Aug 2014)

Well, having just finished our Lon2Paris in a biblical rainstorm, my only main advice.....would be beware your hotel room!
Had a fab ride, very hot for first 3 days then a very wet finish into Paris.....
....but at the Campanile Chaville, we were out of our for 3 humours, including 2 eating downstairs in the hotel....returned to the room.....door still locked (& yes, we are 100% certain we pulled it shut)....but found all bags opened and daughters nice Canon SLR gone along it's some cash. Thieving scum. With the room not broken into, I doubt we will successfully claim on our insurance. 
Staff not desperately interested. Mind you, they weren't when serving us either. Ho hum. Lesson in life


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## Jimmy Doug (7 Aug 2014)

mikeIow said:


> Well, having just finished our Lon2Paris in a biblical rainstorm, my only main advice.....would be beware your hotel room!
> Had a fab ride, very hot for first 3 days then a very wet finish into Paris.....
> ....but at the Campanile Chaville, we were out of our for 3 humours, including 2 eating downstairs in the hotel....returned to the room.....door still locked (& yes, we are 100% certain we pulled it shut)....but found all bags opened and daughters nice Canon SLR gone along it's some cash. Thieving scum. With the room not broken into, I doubt we will successfully claim on our insurance.
> Staff not desperately interested. Mind you, they weren't when serving us either. Ho hum. Lesson in life


Sorry to hear about that. In all fairness though it's the sort of thing that can happen in any hotel anywhere.


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## mikeIow (7 Aug 2014)

I'm sure it can....maybe I've been lucky, I've not had my hotel room ever opened before other than by honest cleaners !
Desk lady this morning admitted ours was one of 4 rooms entered last night.....it'll be interesting to see if Campanile pay us the €600 in good stolen: our travel insurance small print specifically excludes cases where the room is not forced open, so we will be looking to Campanile for redress once the holiday is over. I rate our chances as "pretty low"....


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## Jimmy Doug (8 Aug 2014)

Well, good luck. Have you reported it to the police? I think you'll be expected to do so for any claims that might be made.


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## mikeIow (8 Aug 2014)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Well, good luck. Have you reported it to the police? I think you'll be expected to do so for any claims that might be made.


Thanks, yes, we did spend an hour or two of our precious Paris time at the station getting a statement taken....the claim will be in with Campanile in a couple of weeks, when the holidays end!


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## glenn forger (9 Aug 2014)

Anyone seen the new restaurant signs that promise local produce?


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## Merv from Wellington (7 Oct 2014)

I just completed 2 weeks loosely centred on the Lot, between Aurillac in the north and Revel in the south. One suggestion is to use the IGN 100,000 series maps, as this is the smallest scale that has contour lines. They are much better than Michelin. Bizarrely, they are not widely available in rural France, unlike the 25,000 series (for walkers), so order them on line before you go. You might also like the IGN app for smart phone or similar (I used an iPad Mini, good screen for maps and just the right size for a handlebar bag) as this enables you to zoom in on whereever you might be lost. You will need an Orange sim card (the former France Telecom) as they have far and away the best coverage in the remoter parts.


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## briantrumpet (8 Oct 2014)

Merv from Wellington said:


> One suggestion is to use the IGN 100,000 series maps, as this is the smallest scale that has contour lines. They are much better than Michelin. Bizarrely, they are not widely available in rural France, unlike the 25,000 series (for walkers), so order them on line before you go.


Yes, they are very good cycling maps, though printed on paper that degrades very quickly and tears along the folds, if you're not careful. You can often get them in French supermarkets, incidentally, for the area you're in.


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## Merv from Wellington (11 Oct 2014)

Indeed, supermarkets do have the 100,000 series, although they are often located on big/ busy roads so can be a drag to get to. When I did a similar trip in the same area 25 years ago every little bookshop stocked them, but Michelin seems to have cornered the market since. Incidentally my 25 year old maps were still quite serviceable, apart from the odd missing motorway that has got built in the meantime, perhaps more durable paper back then.

And for the closet cartographers amongst you, IGN also does a 75,000 series (like a large print version of the 100,000, maybe for the partially sighted), and a 150,000 series, goodness knows why.

One quirk I noticed about road signs (which are almost invariably very good) is that, at least on the smaller D roads, only the towns on the road number you are on are signposted. So if you are on the D41 and on the map it appears to go to Quercy, but halfway along the road number changes to the D58, you won't see a sign for Quercy until you get to the D58 section. Signposts on the bigger/ more touristy roads are generally more helpful.


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## memoman (23 Oct 2014)

Small scale maps like the 100,000 series are essential, especially if you're relying on a paper map. I cycled around Northern France and Belgium during August and got lost countless times, especially in Dunkirk. Agree with the road signs point too, they can be misleading at times.

If you're staying in campsites be prepared for extremely temperamental WiFi. Other than that I loved it, the drivers treat you with respect and, whilst cycle lanes aren't on every road like they seem to be in Belgium, I never felt in danger on the road like I sometimes do in this country.


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## Jimmy Doug (24 Oct 2014)

Agreed that a good map is essential. Following rural French signposts is an art-form! For example, don't forget to look over your shoulder as you pass a turn-off - sometimes signs are only on one side of the road, only visible if you're coming from that direction; alternatively they could be hidden in bushes; and many appear to be pointing to the left when they mean straight on. Navigating in cities presents another problem: finding street names. Although signposts are usually good in urban areas, road names are written on tiny little plaques, sometimes placed very high up - and often they aren't marked at all.
Incidentally, to those who want to use GPS: http://osmand.net/ is a great application you can put on your phone. GPS tracking and voice guidance that works offline, and is therefore free. Potentially a very handy resource in rural France - where missing a sign could send you miles and miles off track. It was tremendously useful to me in Norway.
Totally agreed that the French motorists are overwhelmingly courteous to cyclists. Just a shame that they still haven't learned to share the road with each other!


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## Bellabow (25 Feb 2015)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been living and cycling in France since 1998, which is starting to feel like a long time! Now, a few months ago, I had the idea of creating a web site about cycling in France. However, through lack of time, illness, and seeing that other people have done a far better job than I could ever do, I abandoned the idea. But I thought I could at least salvage some of the work I'd done - and the part that I thought would be most useful would be the section where I gave some general practical advice on cycling in France. Maybe this could be useful to people who are thinking of cycling in France for the first time. Perhaps other people could do something similar on the countries where they live? That'd be really great!
> Anyway, here it is. I hope it will be of use to someone sometime. I must remind you though that these are my personal opinions, and so others may not agree with everything I've written - especially my tirade on the priorité à droite rule!
> ...


Thank you jimmy Doug. I will study this in detail for my first touring trip in France this summer Very helpful


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## LouiseSJPP (10 Mar 2015)

rich p said:


> I don't wish to disagree with a French domicile but I've cycled many times in France and toured 1000's of miles there and never once come across priorite a droite.
> 
> Are you sure you're not over-egging it a bit?


Maybe you just lucky as you went through them, @rich p!! They certainly do exist, but more so in some parts than others. I don't see many here in the Pays Basque, but there were plenty where I used to live in the Alpes Maritime.

The other trick you need to look out for in France is in how to use roundabouts: many French drivers cruise happily, and often slowly, right around the outside even when taking third or fourth exits. That, and the tendency of car drivers to overtake cyclists on the approach to a roundabout and then slam on the anchors in front of you make roundabouts an interesting experience....


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## Dave Davenport (10 Mar 2015)

Whilst it's nice to have larger scale maps, if you're doing a long'ish trip you need a lot of them. We managed with a 1-400,000 road atlas of France (£1.50 from The Works) last year and managed to get from Genoa to Caen OK. The only time we got lost was on the Italian side of the Alps for which we were using a 1-150,000 Michelin map. Going off piste now and again adds to the fun IMO and if you're in Europe you'll always end up somewhere.


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## briantrumpet (10 Mar 2015)

The priorité à droite still exists, for sure, but they are few in practice, and those that are there are bring phased out, it seems (at least in Rhône-Alpes) though it's often the default in small towns and villages (where you'd want to be extra cautious anyway). But it's still worth being aware of them: beware of old blokes in caps who have been driving their 2CVs along their roads for the past 60 years on their way to market. A little bit about the area I'm familiar with on my blog here.

Re maps - I still like the Michelin 1:200,000 road atlas for longer tours, pages torn out for wherever I'm going. The entire atlas is only about £10, and the paper is very light, so several pages can be stored in a jersey pocket - enough to do the length of France.


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## LouiseSJPP (11 Mar 2015)

France IGN maps can be used on a smart phone or tablet and are not expensive. It just takes a bit of care to make sure you have the right tiles downloaded for each area BEFORE losing phone signal! I'm playing with MyTrails and ViewRanger apps, bith of which will allow subscriptions to the mapping service. Swapping the IGN with Open Cycle Map gives a lot of detail, the IGN gives a good terrain overview, the OCM gives finer detail.


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## briantrumpet (11 Mar 2015)

Errecaldia said:


> France IGN maps can be used on a smart phone or tablet and are not expensive. It just takes a bit of care to make sure you have the right tiles downloaded for each area BEFORE losing phone signal! I'm playing with MyTrails and ViewRanger apps, bith of which will allow subscriptions to the mapping service. Swapping the IGN with Open Cycle Map gives a lot of detail, the IGN gives a good terrain overview, the OCM gives finer detail.


Interesting - I didn't know you could get IGN tiles ... though I have to admit I do like paper maps, as the batteries last longer, the screen's much bigger, and you don't need a signal.


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## itchybeard (20 Mar 2015)

yello said:


> An interesting read. I do like to read the perspective of others non-French French residents, there's often a great deal I can empathise with or at least recognise. I've lived in France for 4 years now and am starting to settle to it (that is, what was once foreign is becoming the norm and taken for granted). I do still try to make allowances for difference and try not to be judgemental but I'll admit it is difficult sometimes!
> 
> Priorité à droite can catch you out. Fortunately for me, it's not that often that it is an issue - since where I live is rural so there is very little traffic. It's worth keeping in mind that in rural France, many people do drive as if there'll be nothing coming the other way, or crossing an unmarked junction at the same time. You can understand why - usually they're right! So don't be surprised to see something coming towards you in the middle of the road! That is simply how many people drive. It's regularly remarked upon by ex-pat Brits but completely unremarkable as far as the French are concerned - vive la difference eh!
> 
> ...



I 've have looked into living and working in France.
How and what to do you do to get a working visa, a job etc
thanks


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## neil_merseyside (21 Mar 2015)

itchybeard said:


> I 've have looked into living and working in France.
> How and what to do you do to get a working visa, a job etc
> thanks


France is EU so no working visa needed. Doing what job?

Unless you speak perfect french you wont get a job that isn't in tourism (where it doesn't matter too much) or in blue chip industries where locals might not be qualified, most brits are traditional tradesmen working the same jobs as in UK, so Spark, Plumber or Builder. 
Don't expect much money as the social costs paid by businesses even a 1 man band is huge. Evn on the entrepenuer scheme you'll work 8-1 for Taxes, 1-5 on your own business costs and only after 5 will YOU be potentially earning profit - so as long as you don't want lunch and can get work after 5 then you can earn a bit - but you can't really get any money out as profit is taxed massively so you'll have nice tools and van - or a big tax bill. Lots of cash work for ex-pats but you will be shopped by anyone you take work from or anyone you annoy.

Anywhere you'll want to live that isn't in the cities will be disproportionatly expensive, here in the Alps a tradesman would find loads of work and even though the prices on jobs are massive it's only a 5 month season (and most traders seem to pack up after a year or two). You'd live in the valley and work in the resorts and drive lots up and down. Trades that do well are Sparks and Plumbers (with gas and HP water) but getting a ticket is difficult. Can always do with satellite fitters if you're happy on a roof in the snow... Network/Wifi/cable guy also popular, but both jobs need liabilty insurance, so back to being a proper business. 
You could try a ski season as a maintenance man for a ski company if you have a trade, only £80-£100 a week as beer money (all found, accomodation usually poor) but you'd get a feel for it. 60-80hr weeks are common from Mid Nov-Mid Dec, and you'd be on call 24/7. Not selling this well am I ? 
IT professionals do well out here, BB/telephony is as good as UK (though expensive). 

If you want to make a good living then think about importing light bulbs as they cost a mint here.


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## itchybeard (22 Mar 2015)

Hmm, thanks. 
I am not tradesman.
I do French at college at the moment but at beginners, but i need to imerse myself in the culture to pick up the lingo quicker.
It would be nice to try to live abroad, i have emailed hostels to see if they want workers, i don't mind hospitality.


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## itchybeard (22 Mar 2015)

i'm also cycling around France in beginning of May for two weeks. Will propably be around Brittany, Lloire Vally and may cycling into Paris...


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## Jimmy Doug (22 Mar 2015)

itchybeard said:


> Hmm, thanks.
> I am not tradesman.
> I do French at college at the moment but at beginners, but i need to imerse myself in the culture to pick up the lingo quicker.
> It would be nice to try to live abroad, i have emailed hostels to see if they want workers, i don't mind hospitality.



Hi. Whereas I do not agree with everything that Neil has said, I do agree that making a living in France often feels like an uphill struggle. I cannot talk about working for yourself (and I know that's hard) but I do not feel that I, as an employee, pay excessive tax. What does annoy me about the country is how needlessly complicated things feel at times. For example, even in this day and age there is no PAYE: you have to declare your earnings once a year and actually write a cheque - and that can hurt if you don't save for it, especially as the amount you pay is based on the previous year's earnings. Other things annoy me too, but they've mostly been small gripes. That is about to change. Now the country seems set to vote the National Front in the regional elections and the threat of an FN victory in 2017 looms over the country like a whopping big storm cloud. Now, after 17 years' living here, I'm really starting to ask myself if I want to stay. But as I don't have the choice any more, I probably will ....
Anyway, none of this really effects you as a student looking to immerse yourself in the country. The problem is that I think you'll find it very difficult to get a job here. Very good French is a must (I wouldn't say perfect - even I can't claim to have perfect French!) and you'll have to have very precise qualifications in the thing you're applying for. Even if you want to work in a supermarket, you'll need the right qualifications. This isn't the UK - you cannot, unfortunately, hope to find the same flexibility towards employment that you're used to. It was a big shock for me, and it'll be a big shock for you too if you come here, like I did, expecting to find it as easy to get a temporary job. Give it a shot anyway! But if you do, your best bet is to actually come here and present yourself in person to the companies that you'd like to apply to. You never know what might turn up!


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## neil_merseyside (22 Mar 2015)

Summer and winter seasonal work in France is easy enough to find, seasonworkers.com and natives.co.uk will find most of the skiing and camping jobs that exist. Most of these jobs don't need French but it would be a huge advantage, and how much you immerse yourself once there is up to you. These jobs are all fiddles of employment law in that Brits are seconded UK staff (bypassing lots of regs). Pay is poor, and staff quarters are often decidely iffy, when we dropped out it was the first question we asked (having been warned) and some of the stuff on offer is just beyond stupid, like dormitories of 16-20? and one company used to have a garage with blankets as room dividers (and a porta potti). 
Permanent jobs as an employee are hard to get as explained above, and foreign employees are treated really quite badly (GB/P/PL/LV/LT/RO whatever) in smaller companies as sadly the French are rather racist and xenophobic - sounds familiar doesn't it... 
Bigger companies and those that are multi-national are way better, as indeed are the smaller companies that employ on actual merit rather than just out of necessity.


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## Cyclespeed (3 Apr 2015)

Agree with replies above - working in France is fraught with issues - rules, tax, etc. We've been here 10 years running our own business and it's not been easy. People often assume that as France is so close to the UK and in the EU, the rules must be pretty much the same. They're NOT!! Almost any UK qualification will not be accepted by the French.

Cycling and living here however, is excellent!


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## itchybeard (17 Apr 2015)

Thanks for the replies.
As i am cycling around France next week for a couple of weeks holiday, i may look, as around for work, if not, well, i tried.


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## Vertego (7 May 2015)

Cycled in France on regular visits, either on my own or with a mate. Never cycled in the north, only the Lot, Herault & Pyrenees-Orientales. Always found the roads either good, or not so good but rarely potholed as they are in the UK (south). Also ridden in Belgium (only south of Brussels) and found the roads variable. Pave is 'interesting'.

My preference, by far, is France (and clearly I don't ride 'north' anywhere).

Attitudes towards cyclists always seems considerate, although drivers always seem to be in a hurry to get anywhere. Even 'white van man' seems considerate.

When we ride, it's often on back roads but not always. We will always find a café to stop mid-ride and always pass pleasantries with the proprietor and other customers. This really does seem to be appreciated no matter how rudimentary our French might be. We even got asked to participate in a karaoke evening at a local restaurant, where the waitress kindly bought us an Armagnac at the end of the evening. We declined the karaoke - our French is not good but our singing is much worse, no matter how much we had had to drink!

Back there later this year, hopefully.


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## Scarlo (1 Jun 2015)

Hi All, I hope you don't mind me 'hijacking' this thread, but myself and a mate are planning on cycling from Paris to St Tropez in August. Has anyone got any advice on suggested routes and/or budget accommodation? We are on road bikes and plan do cycle around 70miles per day. Cheers in advance for your advice!


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## briantrumpet (1 Jun 2015)

Scarlo said:


> Hi All, I hope you don't mind me 'hijacking' this thread, but myself and a mate are planning on cycling from Paris to St Tropez in August. Has anyone got any advice on suggested routes and/or budget accommodation? We are on road bikes and plan do cycle around 70miles per day. Cheers in advance for your advice!


Perhaps better if you start a new thread, and I'll comment on there with a thought.


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## yello (2 Jun 2015)

Fascinating reading (the stuff re jobs/working in France).

I've heard similar from the expats I know here. Some give up and end up going back to the UK because, despite the enjoyable lifestyle, they are working for next to nothing - if they do it all legally. It's why working on the black is such an accepted thing to do here (not your entire income, just a portion of it). There's pretty much always a job price for cash.


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## briantrumpet (2 Jun 2015)

I've got a friend who's recently moved there (they've had a place for 20 years) and has set up as an entrepreneur (shame the French haven't got a word for that), and doing the "how many days do I have to work before the money's mine" calculation is only too aware how much more France extracts out of its taxpayers. IThey and I do still love the place and the people, but there are some undercurrents in French organisation and practices that aren't very comfortable, and have never really been faced head on.


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## yello (2 Jun 2015)

It's a common complaint I hear that it's very hard for a small business to grow. The govt seemingly takes so much in taxes that it has a significant impact on cash flow for start-ups. Shops close down within months of opening.

The moral seems to be that if you want to start a business here, make sure of your business plan (good advice anywhere!) AND have cash behind you.


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## itchybeard (6 Jun 2015)

My cycling in France went well.
Two weeks from st malo and headed from there.
Went towards Rennes and back up again to Dol de Bretagne over to LE mond.
Stopped at various places then finally to Caen.
I carried my own tent, sleeping bag, stove etc.
This was fine but i will aim to skim on the weight by better clothing.
I randomly found camp site where ever really, follow a sign to a site but hopefully municipal.
these were a generally good price and clean.
i did not wild camp, i would off and that was my intention by randomly pitching up.
This is difficult on occasions because most fields are taken up by agriculture.
I went solo, met other cyclist same as me with standard bikes, gear only.
I did not have panniers, i used two rucksacks on either side with bungee cords to hold up and my one man tent on top strapped down with a cord.
This work though a clip on panniers would of been easier but it worked effectively and comments where positives (makeshift ideas).
My plan was to cycle the coast of Brittany but its quite far so adjust route as also i wanted to walk around towns and villages.
But i camped for the two weeks, my first cycle/camp tour.
Im a brown skin indian and the French were hospitable, offered a coffee and meal that i accepted at a guys house, passed email to another to converse learning over skype...
drivers were fine, better than in the UK i felt because they always stopped for me cycling even on the zebra crossing whether i knew it was a zebra crossing or not they did any ways.
So, post summer, i will plan to head of again.
I would post a picture if i knew how...


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## yello (19 Jun 2015)

Something I thought of earlier today, about eating places that is: don't ignore Flunch.

Flunch is a chain of self-service restaurants, nothing brilliant but perfectly acceptable. On the down side, they're probably not going to be in a cyclist friendly place. Usually they're in malls, large towns or ringroads.

But, they do have fair portion sizes, good choice and are cheaper than your standard 'menu a midi' (so long as you don't go adding too many extras). It's entirely possible to have a meal for €6 or €7.

I wouldn't aim for a Flunch but neither would I dismiss it.


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## Dave Davenport (20 Jun 2015)

This is a handy web site showing all the municipal campsites http://www.camping-municipal.org/camping-france.htm


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## Jimmy Doug (21 Jun 2015)

Dave Davenport said:


> This is a handy web site showing all the municipal campsites http://www.camping-municipal.org/camping-france.htm


This is an excellent resource. It'd be really good if I could add it to the first post - but it's a sticky so I can't!


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## Mandragora (7 Aug 2015)

Thanks for all the brilliant advice and details on here - I will have a thorough read of it later, when I can go through it properly, but even just a ten minute browse has been really informative. ( I want to 'love' rather than 'like' the link to all the municipal sites above - you have no idea how many times we've tried to find that information...)

Anyway - is it ok if I ask a quick question here about a (very small!!) jaunt I'm thinking about doing when we're in Les Landes next week, or should I start a separate thread about it? (Basically I'm hoping for a few bits of info re specific logistics of taking my bike on a train, and some details about the particulars of a route I'm thinking of. More a day trip for a cautious, lone newbie than a tour..)


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## Jimmy Doug (9 Aug 2015)

Mandragora said:


> Anyway - is it ok if I ask a quick question here about a (very small!!) jaunt I'm thinking about doing when we're in Les Landes next week, or should I start a separate thread about it?



I suggest you start a new thread - you've got a better chance of getting a reply from someone who knows the area if you do. Taking a bike on a train in France really depends on the area and the type of train you want to take. Most trains will accept bikes no probs, but with the TGV there can be issues.


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## Hill Wimp (9 Aug 2015)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I suggest you start a new thread - you've got a better chance of getting a reply from someone who knows the area if you do. Taking a bike on a train in France really depends on the area and the type of train you want to take. Most trains will accept bikes no probs, but with the TGV there can be issues.


I second that about the TVG. A few weeks ago they wanted me to box up my tourer and pay an extra 100euros to go between Reims and Lille.

I didn't do i hasten to add.


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## Vertego (9 Aug 2015)

Hopefully another French venture in about 4 weeks.

2 blokes, 2 bikes and more than a few hills! Without a doubt, the 700 mile drive down to Pyrennees-Orintales is well worth it. We park up on arrival and hopefully the car won't move for 2 weeks.

Our wives are more than happy to get us out from under their feet, and we are more than happy to enjoy the trappings of cycling in France, which of course has to be shared with a few beers, a few more glasses of wine and the occasional mid-ride coffee. Can't wait.


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## suzeworld (18 Aug 2015)

We just got back from Provence .. the drive is 1500km each way for us, but totally, totally, totally WORTH IT!
If anyone is going to the Sault area I have mapped some good routes there, some with guidance from a local cycling enthusiast fellah whose tips were very good ...
If you follow this one you can see all my others:
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/811179841


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## suzeworld (18 Aug 2015)

*yello*
did you try to find work?


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## Maxime (24 Aug 2015)

Hill Wimp said:


> I second that about the TVG. A few weeks ago they wanted me to box up my tourer and pay an extra 100euros to go between Reims and Lille.
> 
> I didn't do i hasten to add.



Some TGV (not all accept bikes), but you have to pay 10€ more to be allowed to carry your bike.

http://help.uk.voyages-sncf.com/en/taking-your-bike


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## Shadow (27 Aug 2015)

suzeworld said:


> the drive is 1500km each way


Off topic from thread title but has relevance to tourists! 
Presumably you did not do this in one hit, so do you have any recommendations of places to stay en route?


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## PaulSB (8 Sep 2015)

I don't know about suzeworld but the drive is doable in one hit at around 800 miles. We used to do this when much younger in an Espace full of three kids.

We'd drive two hours on, two hours off. Used to take 12-13 hours including stops.

Today I'd take a week and lots of hotels and cafes!


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## Vertego (9 Sep 2015)

We shall be driving down to Ceret (about 720 miles) on Friday. The drive down will probably be split over 2 days, so we arrive at around 2 or 3pm on Saturday. Just in time to unload the bikes etc. and familiarise ourselves with the area, although I'm already quite familiar. And possibly get out for an hour or 2's ride. The drive home will be done in one hit, with ample leg stretching breaks (and coffees).


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## Trickedem (9 Sep 2015)

Myself and @ianrauk are flying down to Geneva then cycling back to Kent over a week. I think we will be in Switzerland for about a mile, the rest will be in France. I'm really looking forward to this trip.


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## Vertego (10 Sep 2015)

What's the car park charges when you pick up your car back in Kent?

Ride sounds like fun.

Perhaps one year we shall ride down and/or back rather than drive.


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## ianrauk (11 Sep 2015)

Vertego said:


> What's the car park charges when you pick up your car back in Kent?
> 
> Ride sounds like fun.
> 
> Perhaps one year we shall ride down and/or back rather than drive.


We are cycling all the way home. Funnily enough, apart from the first day which is climbing over the Juras, from Dover to home is one of the hillier days.


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## ianrauk (19 Sep 2015)

OK, myself and @Trickedem did our ride/tour home from Geneva. Into France, over the Jura mountains, through France and on to Calais.
So a few observations on my first long road trip through France. Some of these may have already been mentioned in posts above. None of this is in contradiction to anything else that may have been posted by others but solely our own observations from the ride.

The French roads.
We mainly traveled on D roads. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to the numbering system (ie low numbers/high numbers). One D road can be totally car free for miles upon miles, yet another can have juggernauts and cars motoring along at fast speeds. The French drivers do like to speed along these roads though, as they are mainly very long and straight with great sight-lines due to there being not much in the way of hedges like we have in the British countryside. This is quite disconcerting at first, being used to being past on the right rather then the left. However, the majority of drivers give you plenty of room. In 6 days I can count on one hand the number of close passes we had. One of those a Brit and It was noted that the closer you get to the UK the closer the passes seem to be 

In 535 miles we must have come across 1 crappy potholed road. We were continually amazed at how good the roads are. Humble D road back routes had some of the most glorious, smooth, clear tarmac. We should be ashamed of the state of the UK's equivalent roads, really shameful.

The distances between small villages and towns can be quite far. But if you can see a church steeple in the distance it means a village ahead. For food and sustenance, stock up either before you set off for the day or stop in the morning time at a Boulangerie, as at around lunch time, most shops in small towns and villages close... for lunch. There may be a bar/tabac open (if there is one), but not all do food. Don't let the look of a Tabac/bar from the outside put you off. Some may look a little shabby, but the welcome was always warm and the service was always good. In a small village, the Tabacs/bars seem to be very close to the church.

Almost no one in the countryside or small towns speaks English or even attempts to. And that's fair enough, why should they?. However, a mix of smiles and a smattering of French usually does the trick and you can get by and it's a bit fun trying. A Bonjour, Bonsoir, Merci, Au Revior goes a long away. Upon leaving, a Bon Courage was usually given in return (also heard shouted at us by random people as we pass). Also walk into a bar/tabac and most people will say Bonjour to you as you walk in. It was quite fun walking onto a place and getting your Bonjour in first then getting back a chorus of replies.

Priorite a Droite.
Now I was a bit worried about this after reading the thread initially. However we did find that they were very few, far between and were always well signposted, Perhaps in some regions of France they are more in use and prevalent then others but we didn't find it a problem at all. Once again, French mortorists seem to be very courteous, polite and cyclist savvy. Waiting at a junction for you to pass before they proceed. The original tip was great in the sense that it did make us very aware and to look out for them.

Wild camping.
We did the hotel thing on our tour, however, we where amazed at how vast the French countryside is. I knew that France is a big country, but the scale of it, especially the agricultural areas and the woods/forests is vast. Very little seemed to be fenced in. We both did think that there would be ample places to wild camp. Many a time us old men had to stop for a waz on the road side and a few steps into a wood showed that a small tent could easy be pitched without being seen from the road (or elsewhere for that matter).

I thoroughly enjoyed our ride/time through France. Far more then I thought I would. The place is beautiful, the people are beautiful and the roads are beautiful. I can't wait to go back and discover more.


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## Jimmy Doug (19 Sep 2015)

Thanks for the write up. Glad you enjoyed the ride.



ianrauk said:


> Priorite a Droite.
> Now I was a bit worried about this after reading the thread initially. However we did find that they were very few, far between and were always well signposted, Perhaps in some regions of France they are more in use and prevalent then others but we didn't find it a problem at all. Once again, French mortorists seem to be very courteous, polite and cyclist savvy. Waiting at a junction for you to pass before they proceed. The original tip was great in the sense that it did make us very aware and to look out for them.



The reason why you didn't have many is because you were mostly on D roads where they're very rare. They're mostly to be found on the smaller roads and in towns. I repeat what I said: not noticing them doesn't mean they're not there. They're often not signposted at all - hell, sometimes you pass them without even seeing them. Priorité á droite is not a myth. It exists and anyone cycling or driving in France must be aware of it.
Suggestion for future rides: avoid D roads as much as possible. Most are cyclable but some are very busy indeed - others are practically motorways, but this isn't always obvious on the maps.


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## Simpleton (19 Sep 2015)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Thanks for the write up. Glad you enjoyed the ride.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Overall I found the D roads quiet when I cycled in France. They do like to go fast though as and when you do see a car, usually an old school peugeot 206 gti.


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## briantrumpet (19 Sep 2015)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Suggestion for future rides: avoid D roads as much as possible. Most are cyclable but some are very busy indeed - others are practically motorways, but this isn't always obvious on the maps.


Hmm, some of my favouritest roads are D roads in my area - only a couple I'd avoid out of several 100kms, and both are straightish roads between biggish towns/cities. Mostly if you get on an unpleasant one, if you've got a map you can bail out. And if you can't bail out it's probably because it's the only road that goes the way you want to. Lots of C roads are nice too, but if you've got a time schedule to get from A to B, the D roads often take you there in a pleasant and directish way. It's also worth bearing in mind that for five or six weeks in the summer some D roads that are lovely the rest of the year will become quite unpleasant when full of holiday-makers as well as the normal traffic. Certainly worth trying to avoid then.


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## Jimmy Doug (20 Sep 2015)

As I said in my original post, D roads are usually fine - the ones to definitely avoid are N roads. But sometimes they're far from quiet. It depends on the area to some extent. Around here there's a D road which looks like a quiet country lane on the map, but for 20kms becomes a dual carriage way limited to 110 kmh and prohibited to cyclists. Having said that, most D roads are probably quieter than most A roads in the UK - everything's relative I suppose. In France some roads are so quiet you can cycle for ages before a car overtakes you - but these roads are generally not D roads.


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## Trickedem (20 Sep 2015)

I planned the route for @ianrauk and my tour. We did use a few c roads, but in the main, the route was determined by finding big enough towns to have accommodation, but that were sufficiently far apart to allow us to do the trip in 7 days. This then really necessitated using D Roads, which as Ian said were mainly fine. We stayed in F1, IBIS Budget, IBIS Styles and Premier Classe. Which were all quite good and had a reasonable breakfast for good money. The best hotel we stayed in by far was an independent. http://www.motel-saint-michel.fr/#!home_en/c8mg We were made to feel very welcome and had some great food and a brilliant breakfast.


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## Jimmy Doug (20 Sep 2015)

Love the mistake in the blurb of this hotel:
_We are located south of the Champagne - Ardennes and Burgundy doors on the main road 974, 50 km north of Dijon and 15 km south of Langres._
I'll remember the place next time I'm 974, 50 km north of Dijon!


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## Shadow (28 Sep 2015)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Love the mistake in the blurb of this hotel:
> _We are located south of the Champagne - Ardennes and Burgundy doors on the main road 974, 50 km north of Dijon and 15 km south of Langres._
> I'll remember the place next time I'm 974, 50 km north of Dijon!


Lost in translation, Jimmy, as I'm sure you guessed. If you look at the page _en français_, it makes perfect sense!


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## Shadow (28 Sep 2015)

Trickedem said:


> F1, IBIS Budget, IBIS Styles and Premier Classe. Which were all quite good and had a reasonable breakfast for good money.


F1, Ibis and the like all provide accommodation similar to Travelodge, Premier etc in the uk - basic bed, bath and (usually) clean, for a low price. A new one (to me) in this format is B&B Hotels. Useful when showing up at after 23.00, being turned away from a Campanile because it was full, nobody on reception but room purchase and access via a vending machine. I kid you not! Cost and standard similar to those listed. Not sure I'd hurry back but useful nonetheless.


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## Shadow (28 Sep 2015)

Trickedem said:


> The best hotel we stayed in by far was an independent.


This is often the case and worth looking for. Some have been same family owned for years. 
Downside is that they have potential to be horrible - the worst hotel I've _ever_ stayed in was an independent in france. But it was many years ago and it has probably been condemned by now!


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## RichardB (20 Nov 2015)

F1 hotels very basic - moulded plastic fittings, industrial carpet, shower/loo down the corridor, shared with other residents. Often used by teams of foreign contractors, so sometimes noisy and shared facilities less than pristine. However, 24-hour access, so if you rock up late at night, as long as you have a credit card you have somewhere to sleep. Cheap, unlimited breakfast (€6 last time I was in one). Rooms are usually double plus single, and you pay for the room, not the occupants. I'm quite happy with them (although there is much better to be had) but my daughter hated the shared facilities. B&B very similar, but usually with en-suite, so much more privacy, and a bit nicer. Both are well below Travelodge standard IMO, but cheap and cheerful. I've used both on motorcycle trips. One drawback is that they are usually located on an industrial estate some way from the town centre, so although they usually have lockable gates and pretty good security, you can feel a little isolated. Best thought of as a simple stopover on your way to somewhere nicer.

Last trip we did, we stayed in IBIS and were well pleased with them. I would rate them similar to the UK's Premier Inn - a notch above Travelodge but not the Ritz. They tend to be in better locations (although often in a retail park) and usually have a medium-to-good restaurant attached. Excellent breakfasts, all you can eat and a take-away fruit bowl which is a nice touch. We found the staff extremely helpful in all we stayed in. We would definitely use them again. Independent hotels, we've had wonderful and awful. I'd stay in one if I had done the research first, but with IBIS you know you're getting a consistent 'product'.

One remark about France I always like to get in ... the French are very proud of their country, heritage and language, probably more than the Brits are. If you respect that, you won't find a nicer bunch of people anywhere. My French is rough and ready (schoolboy standard plus adult confidence, good accent but lousy grammar), but I always, always start any conversation in French and try my best. In 'La France Profonde', where we like to go, not many people speak English, but if you try your French first, they will always help you out, and you get there in the end. Apart from once in Paris, I have never once had a French person be rude to me, and I like to think it is because I respect their culture and language, and don't assume that speaking French = English, only louder and slower. Sorry to bang on about this, but so many people I know and work with say the French are rude and aloof, and it just ain't true. If you worked in a shop and a customer shouted at you in German and expected you to understand, you'd be rude and aloof too. Vive la France, especially this week.


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## glenn forger (20 Nov 2015)

Near Bagnolles I asked a young couple in my awful French where the train station was and they burst out laughing. They then kindly gave directions to Lourdes but I could tell they were nearly corpsing.


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## RichardB (20 Nov 2015)

They probably thought you were in a custody battle with Madonna.


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## briantrumpet (20 Nov 2015)

RichardB said:


> In 'La France Profonde', where we like to go, not many people speak English, but if you try your French first, they will always help you out, and you get there in the end. Apart from once in Paris, I have never once had a French person be rude to me, and I like to think it is because I respect their culture and language, and don't assume that speaking French = English, only louder and slower. Sorry to bang on about this, but so many people I know and work with say the French are rude and aloof, and it just ain't true. If you worked in a shop and a customer shouted at you in German and expected you to understand, you'd be rude and aloof too. Vive la France, especially this week.


Absolument about doing your best in French. The nice thing about 'having a go' in the remoter parts of France is that they just want to understand you, and will be patient, even if they still talk back to you too quickly for you to understand properly - actually, that's a sort of compliment, as they aren't taking you as an ignorant foreigner. Although all French children learn English at school, many of them rarely get to use it after they've left school.


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## ianrauk (20 Nov 2015)

When myself and @Trickedem were doing our across France ride.
We turned up at our hotel for the night. In deepest, darkest, countryside France.
We went to find the proprietor to ask to book in. We found him and his English wasn't that great. But he did manage to say. "First....you need beer".


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## briantrumpet (20 Nov 2015)

If you want to break the ice, you could always ask Where is Brian?.

It's even better when your name is Brian.


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## Jimmy Doug (21 Nov 2015)

briantrumpet said:


> If you want to break the ice, you could always ask Where is Brian?.
> 
> It's even better when your name is Brian.


Good one! Bet you hear that all the time! Bet you no-one knows what we're talking about, though!


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## gavroche (21 Nov 2015)

I just want to add, when it comes to roundabouts in France, it is not necessary to signal as you enter it but you must signal your way out. Quite a difference from the UK, so be aware.


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## gavroche (21 Nov 2015)

I just want to add, when it comes to roundabouts in France, it is not necessary to signal as you enter it but you must signal your way out. Quite a difference from the UK, so be aware.


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## robing (14 Feb 2016)

Does anyone know how you charge your phone etc in french campsites? My experience is fairly limited but I thought you had to pay extra for electricity and then you needed one of those caravan adaptors. Are there sockets in the toilet blocks? It was a doddle in Spain as there were plenty of normal sockets on campsites for no extra charge.


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## Jimmy Doug (15 Feb 2016)

robing said:


> Does anyone know how you charge your phone etc in french campsites? My experience is fairly limited but I thought you had to pay extra for electricity and then you needed one of those caravan adaptors. Are there sockets in the toilet blocks? It was a doddle in Spain as there were plenty of normal sockets on campsites for no extra charge.


It depends on the campsite I guess. I've never found it difficult to charge my phone in campsites, France or elsewhere. What I usually do is bring a cheap external battery that holds enough juice to recharge my phone twice. I just leave that to charge in the toilets, then charge my phone with it. I can leave the battery alone in the showers (I try to hide it) while I get on with putting up my tent, making meals, showering etc. If someone steals the external battery it's not too important.


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## robing (15 Feb 2016)

[QUOTE 4155452, member: 259"]There are almost always shaver sockets in the toilet blocks.[/QUOTE]
Are they the same as the regular continental socket?


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## Alex H (15 Feb 2016)

robing said:


> Are they the same as the regular continental socket?



regular - not a hope of that  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets

They will all 'fit' each other , but everyone likes their own variant. I think the most difficult was French to Swedish socket.


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## Jimmy Doug (15 Feb 2016)

I've never had any trouble with my French sockets anywhere else in Europe - including Sweden. The only place where I do have problems is the UK!


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## Shut Up Legs (15 Feb 2016)

Have any of you used a foreign (e.g. UK or Australian) powerboard and used a power converter to plug it into a French socket? Does this cause any problems? I want to bring an Australian 4-socket powerboard + Australian/French power adaptors with me in September, and just want to be aware of any caveats on using it.


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## Jimmy Doug (15 Feb 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> Have any of you used a foreign (e.g. UK or Australian) powerboard and used a power converter to plug it into a French socket? Does this cause any problems? I want to bring an Australian 4-socket powerboard + Australian/French power adaptors with me in September, and just want to be aware of any caveats on using it.


Sorry. Can't advise on this.


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## Poacher (15 Feb 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> Have any of you used a foreign (e.g. UK or Australian) powerboard and used a power converter to plug it into a French socket? Does this cause any problems? I want to bring an Australian 4-socket powerboard + Australian/French power adaptors with me in September, and just want to be aware of any caveats on using it.


Presumably you don't mean one of them there powerboards a.k.a. hoverboards that are the current craze with de yoof, but what Brits would call an extension lead, i.e one plug, maybe a metre or two of flex, and a plastic box with 4 sockets? Shouldn't be a problem so long as your adaptor carries an earth connection. French wiring regs are very different from UK ones in that ring mains are illegal; instead a radial wiring system is used, with a limit on the number of sockets on any one leg of cable, so _technically _you could be in breach of the regs if the wiring is already near the limit. Practically, you'd be _extremely _unfortunate if one of the enforcers suddenly turned up at your door and demanded admittance. Just don't try using 4 kettles or electric heaters at once! AFAIK Aussie power supply is 230 volts or thereabouts, rather than the US 110, so should be OK on that score too.


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## briantrumpet (22 Feb 2016)

gavroche said:


> I just want to add, when it comes to roundabouts in France, it is not necessary to signal as you enter it but you must signal your way out. Quite a difference from the UK, so be aware.


Please can someone tell French drivers this? They seem to like to keep you guessing, in my experience...


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## chaingangclub (3 Mar 2016)

Might be of interest, I've just cycled solo from bordeaux to calais and am running a blog Www.wheretheresawheel.com/cyclechat


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## breakingaway (17 Mar 2016)

Great read! Now I got some why France is called cycling friendly country. This post has given me a sigh of relief as next month I’m going on French Alps cycling tours. Now I’ll plan accordingly.


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## briantrumpet (17 Mar 2016)

breakingaway said:


> Great read! Now I got some why France is called cycling friendly country. This post has given me a sigh of relief as next month I’m going on French Alps cycling tours. Now I’ll plan accordingly.


If you want any more reading matter, and cycling stuff from the Alpine direction, you might find a bit of relevant stuff in mine: https://unanglaisendiois.wordpress.com/


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## AlexB (18 Apr 2016)

Shut Up Legs said:


> Have any of you used a foreign (e.g. UK or Australian) powerboard and used a power converter to plug it into a French socket? Does this cause any problems? I want to bring an Australian 4-socket powerboard + Australian/French power adaptors with me in September, and just want to be aware of any caveats on using it.



Yes, I do this all the time. I even have one rewired with a French plug at the in-laws. My wife is French so we go to France a lot. This is the easiest solution rather than having to take dozens of adaptors everywhere.


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## caitlincourtney (29 Apr 2016)

Thanks for the post, Very informative.


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## robing (23 May 2016)

I haven't cycled much in France, but have in Spain and my impression so far is that France is not as good. Firstly the roads are better in Spain. There is often a good shoulder you can cycle on. In France it's usually absent or if present in pretty poor condition. In many smaller towns the shops seem to be closed. In Spain there are frequent petrol stations which have loos and sell drinks, refreshments and food. In France they seem much less common and the one that you see seem to just sell petrol or are purely automated. Is this a fair representation of France?


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## briantrumpet (23 May 2016)

robing said:


> I haven't cycled much in France, but have in Spain and my impression so far is that France is not as good. Firstly the roads are better in Spain. There is often a good shoulder you can cycle on. In France it's usually absent or if present in pretty poor condition. In many smaller towns the shops seem to be closed. In Spain there are frequent petrol stations which have loos and sell drinks, refreshments and food. In France they seem much less common and the one that you see seem to just sell petrol or are purely automated. Is this a fair representation of France?


It probably depends where you are, but fair for my mainly rural bit of France. But once you know how the system works (shops will often close at 12.30pm and reopen at 3, and restaurants often prefer if you sit down well before 1pm if you're having lunch), then it's still a great place to cycle. Just don't expect the all-day culture of Britain - personally I respect the fact that the French enjoy their lunch break.

Re roads themselves - mostly in very good condition, though some very rural roads (mostly signed as being 'gravillonnée' in wilder parts) are allowed to be a bit more 'natural'. Where there are bike lanes in my area they are in as good a nick as the main carriageway, e.g:


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## Dave Davenport (23 May 2016)

robing said:


> I haven't cycled much in France, but have in Spain and my impression so far is that France is not as good. Firstly the roads are better in Spain. There is often a good shoulder you can cycle on. In France it's usually absent or if present in pretty poor condition. In many smaller towns the shops seem to be closed. In Spain there are frequent petrol stations which have loos and sell drinks, refreshments and food. In France they seem much less common and the one that you see seem to just sell petrol or are purely automated. Is this a fair representation of France?


I've ridden in both countries a fair bit, yes there are differences but I wouldn't say either was 'better' than the other.


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## Jimmy Doug (23 May 2016)

I prefer cycling in France because it's not obligatory to wear a helmet!
In all seriousness, I agree with Dave - I love cycling in both countries. It's true that in Spain you've got that hard shoulder, but I find that on the whole France has a more diverse landscape. Horses for courses.


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## Dave Davenport (23 May 2016)

Jimmy Doug said:


> I prefer cycling in France because it's not obligatory to wear a helmet!


I've never worn a helmet in Spain, but yes I know some people have fallen foul of the rather opaque helmet laws.


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## briantrumpet (23 May 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> I've never worn a helmet in Spain, but yes I know some people have fallen foul of the rather opaque helmet laws.


I'll remember to buy a rather opaque helmet if I go to Spain.


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## robing (23 May 2016)

Interesting. I've only touched on France in the southwest near the Pyrenees. I'm doing a diagonale in September (Bayonne to Calais) so will see much more then.


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## Vertego (26 May 2016)

Likewise, I've mainly ridden in the southwest regions of France (although did have a week in the Lot valley near to Cahors about 7 or 8 years ago). This year (early September) looking to spend a week or 2 in/around the Rhone-Alpes region. Can't wait.

Road qualities are variable but generally better than a lot of the roads in the UK, particularly some of the back roads in the Surrey hills. Having said that it seems to me that some French municipal authorities don't spend any of their budgets on road maintenance - some towns/villages have road surfaces that are 'interesting'. Obviously no French equivalent to the Highways Act!

Robin, read your blog. Interesting and some of the areas familiar too.


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## Jimmy Doug (28 May 2016)

Vertego said:


> Having said that it seems to me that some French municipal authorities don't spend any of their budgets on road maintenance - some towns/villages have road surfaces that are 'interesting'. Obviously no French equivalent to the Highways Act!



I think the problem in France is that in towns and villages roadworks are paid for by local municipal taxes which are the same for every resident of that town or village - France has had a poll tax for a great many years. In the poorer towns, roads are often neglected simply to keep the taxes down - and to ensure the popularity of the mayor: after all, in a country where the car is still very much King (or rather Queen for the French), most people don't notice pot holes like we cyclists do. The larger D and N roads are managed more centrally, and tend to be of excellent quality. The result is that the quality of cycleable roads can be very poor, whereas the quality of un-cycleable roads cyclists is generally excellent.


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## psmiffy (28 May 2016)

I think the problem in Spain is that they benefited from a lot of EEC money for roads they didnt really need - I can recall many years ago riding on empty roads demarcated by blue EEC signs

Edit - Apart from Poland I've never cycled anywhere in Europe that I consciously noticed the condition of the roads - what is what is


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## psmiffy (28 May 2016)

robing said:


> In Spain there are frequent petrol stations which have loos and sell drinks, refreshments and food. In France they seem much less common and the one that you see seem to just sell petrol or are purely automated.



Pretty fair - away from the major roads - Petrol stations sell petrol - cafes sell drinks, refreshments and food


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## briantrumpet (28 May 2016)

psmiffy said:


> cafes sell drinks, refreshments and food


Unless you're in Aigueperse:

Me: Do you have a menu du jour?
Them: Non
Me: Do you do any food at all?
Them: Non
Me: Is there anywhere in Aigueperse that is open that sells food?
Them: Non.

I rather got the idea by the end of the conversation. I went on to the next village and had an unforgettable four-course lunch with a glass of wine, all for 12 euros. 

You take the French as they are. And I like them for it.


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## ThompsonCrowley (18 Jun 2016)

Excellent information. Thanks for posting this! I did a trip in France a couple of years ago, entering through Belgium on La Meuse (have you ever done this route? It is beautiful and very easy to follow). We finished our trip in Charleville, but now I am driving through France to Spain, your writing has been very useful. Can't wait to get hold of a bike out here and start exploring!
All the best,
Tom


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## Goggs (27 Jul 2016)

What a fantastic thread. Many thanks to the OP & all subsequent contributors. My wife & I have just moved to France 5 weeks ago & I'm waiting for my new bike to be delivered as I type. I'm really looking forward to biking along the wee country single-track roads around here (Sain-Remy-de-Provence).

I've only read the first few pages of this thread so far but does anyone know where I can find an explanation of the French Highway Code in English? That would be very handy.


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## s7ephanie (27 Jul 2016)

Goggs, french highway code - your having a laugh


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## psmiffy (27 Jul 2016)

I'm sure somewhere there is a translation of the Code Napoleon amended 2016


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## briantrumpet (27 Jul 2016)

There's the following regulation in there:

In hot weather, passengers in the front seat MUST remove their shoes and put their feet on the dashboard. If the temperatures are above 30C, they SHOULD put at least one foot out of the window.


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## psmiffy (29 Jul 2016)

Ive cycled on and off for the last 25 years hundreds of km on more French canal towpaths than I can remember and never been challenged - I think unless it is specifically not allowed by a sign or more probably a gate - Ive never seen either - then it is OK


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## Goggs (1 Aug 2016)

Do any of the francophiles know how I would go about asking a mechanic in France to true my wheels? I'm guessing they have a different term but I have no idea what it might be. He might understand what I mean anyway but it would be nice to get it right in the first place.


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## Poacher (1 Aug 2016)

Here's a translation of a Sheldon Brown article on wheel truing. On the main site there's also a potentially useful English / French cycle dictionary.
Hope this helps.

PS I'm sure I came across a more comprehensive dictionary somewhere. I'll try to relocate it tomorrow if I remember.


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## s7ephanie (3 Aug 2016)

Goggs said:


> Do any of the francophiles know how I would go about asking a mechanic in France to true my wheels? I'm guessing they have a different term but I have no idea what it might be. He might understand what I mean anyway but it would be nice to get it right in the first place.


I took mine into cycle shop and mimed (wonky) as soon as he turned wheel he could see what i meant x


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## Alex H (3 Aug 2016)

Goggs said:


> Do any of the francophiles know how I would go about asking a mechanic in France to true my wheels? I'm guessing they have a different term but I have no idea what it might be. He might understand what I mean anyway but it would be nice to get it right in the first place.



"Dévoilage de roue" 

This is a link to French Decathlon's workshop and the services it offers for cycles http://www.decathlon.fr/atelier-cycle-prestation.html#cycle-presta 

(Just put the words into your favourite online translator and Robert is your Father's brother )


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## Goggs (3 Aug 2016)

Poacher said:


> Here's a translation of a Sheldon Brown article on wheel truing. On the main site there's also a potentially useful English / French cycle dictionary.
> Hope this helps.
> 
> PS I'm sure I came across a more comprehensive dictionary somewhere. I'll try to relocate it tomorrow if I remember.



Excellent, thanks. I'm going to use that dictionary.



s7ephanie said:


> I took mine into cycle shop and mimed (wonky) as soon as he turned wheel he could see what i meant x



Haha, that's what I'm trying to avoid. If it comes to that though..


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## Goggs (3 Aug 2016)

Alex H said:


> "Dévoilage de roue"
> 
> This is a link to French Decathlon's workshop and the services it offers for cycles http://www.decathlon.fr/atelier-cycle-prestation.html#cycle-presta
> 
> (Just put the words into your favourite online translator and Robert is your Father's brother )



Now that is lateral thinking. Excellent idea.


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## glenn forger (3 Aug 2016)

s7ephanie said:


> I took mine into cycle shop and mimed (wonky) as soon as he turned wheel he could see what i meant x



Ha ha! Me too, in Tarbes. My French is awful, just embarrassing. I said hello, obviously, then just showed him where the wheel was rubbing.


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## gavroche (3 Aug 2016)

I must admit that even I, sometimes need a dictionary cos I have been over here for so long that I tend to forget some of my French. Sad really.


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## Dayvo (3 Aug 2016)

gavroche said:


> I must admit that even I, sometimes need a dictionary cos I have been over here for so long that I tend to forget some of my French. Sad really.



That's why the Tour of France commentary is in English these days: to help peeps like you!


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## psmiffy (5 Aug 2016)

Dayvo said:


> That's why the Tour of France commentary is in English these days: to help peeps like you!



English is a very loose term when applied to some of the commentators


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## Poacher (8 Aug 2016)

Interesting to note from @glenn forger 's photo that the French for "bikefitting" is, er, "bikefitting". Doubtful whether the Academie Francaise would approve!


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## psmiffy (8 Aug 2016)

I have only been into French bike shops for things that are obviously broken - wheel sans rim the guy immediately grasped the situation (a bit lucky actually - I had lost the rear rim on a Saturday morning before lunch - quite exciting on a heavy bike going down a little hill with the wheel locking up - stripped the tyre off and rode it on the rim the 15km to the nearest little town where I thought maybe there might be a bike shop - met the bike shop owner going for his lunch and asked him where the nearest velo shop was - he closed for the weekend at lunch but told me to wait outside the shop at 2 heures and he would come back - only had one wheel that was suitable - and no cassettes - we struggled to get the cassette off but all was well - tyre back on and I was on my way rejoicing )


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## PaulSB (15 Aug 2016)

Possibly a daft question. My previous touring has always been of the credit card variety. I have toured France for up to 12 days at a time. 

Next summer I plan to tour with a tent. It seems to me sleeping in a tent could be quite hot as one hits the Dordogne and further south. 

Am I right and do people have solutions?


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## Goggs (15 Aug 2016)

PaulSB said:


> Possibly a daft question. My previous touring has always been of the credit card variety. I have toured France for up to 12 days at a time.
> 
> Next summer I plan to tour with a tent. It seems to me sleeping in a tent could be quite hot as one hits the Dordogne and further south.
> 
> Am I right and do people have solutions?



I couldn't sleep in a tent where I am right now. It's been that way for most of the last eight weeks too, with at least another four to come. Maybe if you camped by a river though or those posh campsites with swimming pools. The Ardeche is good for both.


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## Jimmy Doug (16 Aug 2016)

I've cycle toured in Greece, Spain and Italy (and the south of France also) and never really had problems with tents and heat. I just make sure I get to the camp site fairly early in order to have a choice of where to put the tent and pitch in the best shade possible. Tents do get hot very quickly, but they cool down very quickly too. It isn't exactly an air-conditioned hotel room, but just so long as you have a light sleeping bag (or even just a sleeping bag inner) it's not too bad.


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## Dave Davenport (27 Aug 2016)

If you want to chill the wine/beer you've just bought at the supermarket, just ask nicely at the fish counter and they'll happily give you a carrier bag of crushed ice for nothing.


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## Jimmy Doug (27 Aug 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> If you want to chill the wine/beer you've just bought at the supermarket, just ask nicely at the fish counter and they'll happily give you a carrier bag of crushed ice for nothing.


Excellent tip! I didn't know this.


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## Goggs (27 Aug 2016)

I'd be too scared to ask anything of the battleaxe that runs my local Intermarche fish counter.


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## Goggs (28 Aug 2016)

One thing to watch out for is the new law where every second vehicle has to be driven by someone who's also on the phone. Every third they're on the phone & smoking a fag.


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## Shadow (29 Aug 2016)

Goggs said:


> I'd be too scared to ask anything of the battleaxe that runs my local Intermarche fish counter.


If you are now in St Remy (you lucky, lucky Goggs), you could take your custom elsewhere. There is an alternative to Intermarché, non?


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## Goggs (29 Aug 2016)

Shadow said:


> If you are now in St Remy (you lucky, lucky Goggs), you could take your custom elsewhere. There is an alternative to Intermarché, non?



Actually I do. I tend to go to, the SuperU Graveson.


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## briantrumpet (11 Sep 2016)

A first for me in France - I was given the finger - now I wouldn't have minded if I had been doing something stupid, but I merely held my hand out to a driver overtaking directly towards me, when I had no bike space to escape to. I suppose he thought that 50cm at a closing speed of 60mph was more than enough.

To be fair, French drivers down in the south east aren't generally actively aggressive towards cyclists, but you do need to keep your wits about you on a few main roads, as many drivers don't expect to have to slow down and wait to pass you. I'd never risk 'taking the lane'.

Incidentally, changing the subject, re nights and tents/camping, for the whole of August in my part of France, the temperature difference between night and day was about 20C this year, and I've known it to be 25C - the air holds little warmth, as it's not humid, generally, and once the sun sets the temperatures fall off noticeably from about 10pm.


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## briantrumpet (11 Sep 2016)

Goggs said:


> Actually I do. I tend to go to, the SuperU Graveson.


I've more or less given up on Intermarché too, and similarly prefer U Express.


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## Goggs (13 Sep 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> A first for me in France - *I was given the finger* - now I wouldn't have minded if I had been doing something stupid, but I merely held my hand out to a driver overtaking directly towards me, when I had no bike space to escape to. I suppose he thought that 50cm at a closing speed of 60mph was more than enough.
> 
> To be fair, French drivers down in the south east aren't generally actively aggressive towards cyclists, but you do need to keep your wits about you on a few main roads, as many drivers don't expect to have to slow down and wait to pass you. I'd never risk 'taking the lane'.
> 
> Incidentally, changing the subject, re nights and tents/camping, for the whole of August in my part of France, the temperature difference between night and day was about 20C this year, and I've known it to be 25C - the air holds little warmth, as it's not humid, generally, and once the sun sets the temperatures fall off noticeably from about 10pm.



Sorry


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## robing (16 Sep 2016)

I'm back now from my Bayonne to Blighty trip across France to Dieppe. (I managed to make myself ill in the process, I think because I was really pushing it and doing a lot of miles and not enough rest). Anyway, here are my thoughts on France:

Pros -
I love the French people. I like the whole politeness thing, we could learn a thing or two from that. I found them to be mainly friendly and hospitable, it helps having basic conversational French. I was able to get by and have reasonable conversations, but didn't always fully understand the replies when they spoke quickly!

Cycle paths - mostly very good. Did quite a lot of the Velodyssey and other cycle ways in southwest France and generally good quality, easy navigation, separate from the roads.

Boulangeries - wonderful array of pastries and often do coffees too.

Camping - so many campsites, the municipals generally good and some cheap ones on the Velodyssey. Wild camped in the forests, was great! I did have a battery pack nicked from a campsite toliets which put a bit of a dampener on things. I realise this could have happened anywhere.

Bayonne to Royan - I really enjoyed this section, lots of cycle paths, smaller roads, endless pine forests and the Dune du Pilat. Plus really liked Arcachon.

Normandy - nice rolling countryside a bit like the Cotswolds.

Budget hotels
Though more pricey than countries like Spain, I found the F1s and Premiere Classe etc to be pretty good. You know what you are going to get and they don't question taking the bike in the room. Can work out quite cheap if there are 2-3 of you. Virtually every F1 stunk of cigarette smoke though. I didn't really mind the lack of en suite in F1s, there is a washbasin, not too bad if you are a bloke lol.

Cons -
the roads! I didn't really like cycling on French roads that much. Navigation was pretty tricky when I got away from the coast at Rochefort and headed inland via Thouars, Saumur, Le Mans, Normandy. France must have more miles of roads than any other European country I reckon, certainly more than Spain. You can take minor roads, but often this means checking your map/gps/phone etc every 5 minutes when you get to a crossroad. A lot of the main roads, even 'minor' D ones can be quite busy and narrow. There's often not a shoulder to cycle on, and when there is one, the surface may not be very good. I had 2 or three really close passes from lorries.

Shops - there can be a lack of roadside shops in France. Petrol stations generally don't serve any refreshments (although more in the north seemed to), smaller supermarkets often close in the early-mid afternoon. Big supermarkets/hypermarkets are ok but a bit of a pain to wander around when you only want a quick stop. I found the roadside bars/tabaks a bit miserable. You can buy a fairly overpriced Coke, maybe a chocolate bar but not a lot else. There were a few times when I was really gagging for some refreshments and nowhere was open! Some towns were like ghost towns to cycle through.

Rochefort to Le Mans was all pretty dull cycling, all fairly featureless. I guess the east of the country is probably a lot more scenic and mountainous.

That's about it! The weather was fantastic. I didn't really come across any priorite a droite either,


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## briantrumpet (16 Sep 2016)

robing said:


> Cons -
> the roads! I didn't really like cycling on French roads that much. Navigation was pretty tricky when I got away from the coast at Rochefort and headed inland via Thouars, Saumur, Le Mans, Normandy. France must have more miles of roads than any other European country I reckon, certainly more than Spain. You can take minor roads, but often this means checking your map/gps/phone etc every 5 minutes when you get to a crossroad. A lot of the main roads, even 'minor' D ones can be quite busy and narrow. There's often not a shoulder to cycle on, and when there is one, the surface may not be very good. I had 2 or three really close passes from lorries.
> 
> I didn't really come across any priorite a droite either,


Re D roads - they do really come in all shapes and sizes - in my part, there are some, just a handful, which are fairly major transit routes, with lots of cars and lorries 'n' all, and then there are others where I can go 20 miles and not be passed by more than a couple of cars - the latter type is the more common. D roads ('Départementale') that go in a straight line between medium sized towns are likely to be busyish, but there are usually alternatives not far away (except in the case of really mountainous areas) - and you can get dream roads like this, which, I'd say, are in the majority:







Re PAD - yes, a disappearing phenomenon, and if you do come across one (marked by an X sign), you just treat it like any junction: with caution.


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## Jimmy Doug (16 Sep 2016)

Thanks for the write up - very interesting.
Concerning the priorité à droite. As I've said elsewhere, I absolutely guarantee that you sailed past several - but didn't notice a single one. That's my problem with them! They really are everywhere, but rarely are they clearly marked. If you don't believe me, give me your route and I'll find them for you on Google Street View (semi-serious here!)
I totally agree with you about the rest. The French are very polite and have a good sense of humour, but it helps if you make even a tiny effort to speak French. The roads can be very fast and busy - but I find them on the whole far less stressful than the UK ones. Garages? Yeah - not the best place to look for food generally speaking. You need to stop off in the supermarkets or boulangeries. Don't go to the big superstores on the edge of town unless you can lock all your bags and your bike. They can be HUGE - and by the time you've even found the section of the supermarket you're looking for, someone may have pinched your stuff. Far, far better to stop in a small corner supermarket, even if it does cost that little bit more.


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## Jimmy Doug (16 Sep 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> Re PAD - yes, a disappearing phenomenon, and if you do come across one (marked by an X sign), you just treat it like any junction: with caution.



They are not disappearing. It does depend to some extent where you are. Here, there are more and more of them. Several towns around here have recently added them, whereas before they were not priorité à droite.


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## Jimmy Doug (16 Sep 2016)

I love your photo by the way Brian. I absolutely agree. You find D roads like that everywhere in France outside the big towns - not necessarily with the Alps in the background though! It's one of the great pleasures of cycling in this wonderful country.


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## briantrumpet (16 Sep 2016)

Jimmy Doug said:


> They are not disappearing. It does depend to some extent where you are. Here, there are more and more of them. Several towns around here have recently added them, whereas before they were not priorité à droite.


Shows how regional these decisions are - they are definitely disappearing in the Drôme, though it's quite funny to see white lines painted in the middle of the big spaces where some of them they used to be.


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## Jimmy Doug (16 Sep 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> Shows how regional these decisions are - they are definitely disappearing in the Drôme, though it's quite funny to see white lines painted in the middle of the big spaces where some of them they used to be.


Yes, indeed. In such a centralised country too. I lived in Rhône Alpes before coming here, and apart from the mountains, one of the things I loved about the region was that priorité à droite hardly existed. It was occasional in Nantes, everywhere in Le Havre, and it's sporadic here (I've moved around a bit!). It's part of the problem of the thing. There's no consistence whatsoever. Even in the same village there can be a normal-priority round, straight away followed by a priorité à droite road. In Paris, there are still the occasional roundabouts that are priorité à droite. How confusing is that? Isn't it time the French just abolished the damn things? They exist elsewhere in Europe too - but they're clearly marked. Not always the case here.


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## briantrumpet (16 Sep 2016)

Jimmy Doug said:


> Isn't it time the French just abolished the damn things?


Yes. There are all sorts of quirky things I love about France (or the bit I know, anyway), but this isn't one of them.

Let's put it to the EU! Oh, hang on...


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## Jimmy Doug (17 Sep 2016)

[QUOTE 4469583, member: 259"]They aren't marked at all in Belgium and NL. If you don't see a sign saying otherwise, always assume it's priority to the right.[/QUOTE]

I know France isn't the only country in Europe to have priorité à droite. Hell, I remember coming across it in the States. What I object to is the very principle you mention - that if you don't see a sign otherwise then you have to stop to traffic on the right. This is what I think is dangerous. How many times have I driven or cycled past a junction that I didn't see until the last minute? Whether you're driving or cycling, if you have to give way, it should be clearly marked (around here, the new priorité à droite are marked - it's the older ones that aren't). I'll quote myself from the very first post in this thread:



Jimmy Doug said:


> Whatever the justification for the priorité à droite rule, I think I'd be able to live with it much better if there was any consistency or clarity. Unfortunately there is neither. There's no consistency because in any town you can have the priority on one junction, only to not have it on the junction immediately next to it; or the priorité à droite rule will be applied religiously in one village, but not at all in the village further down the road; and it's not clear because it's either signalled by a small sign like the one shown here with a cross on it at the entrance to a village (which doesn't tell you just which junction the rule applies to)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I then went on to post a picture of a street near here to illustrate the point. It's one of many like this - indeed it's not the worst. But now, thanks to the magic of Google, you can see for yourself.

https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.5198...4!1seqj27XSQWIaWg1kRy2__Vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Actually, the road is much more visible on Google Street View than it is in real life - probably because the camera is high on the roof of the car and that you're not moving fast. The photo I posted on the first page is much closer to what you actually see. If you go further up the road in the opposite direction, you see a newer junction which is properly marked, and also there is now a cross sign like the one above - but it's very easy to miss and it doesn't give you any clue as to where the junction is. In a car, and even on a bike, this junction is all but invisible until you cross it. That's my gripe: not so much the rule in itself, but the fact that it's all too easy to sail past a give way junction without noticing it and finding yourself in hospital (or worse) for the lack of a simple white line across the road.


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## DMan001 (17 Sep 2016)

Great post, thanks!


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## briantrumpet (17 Sep 2016)

Jimmy Doug said:


> What I object to is the very principle you mention - that if you don't see a sign otherwise then you have to stop to traffic on the right. This is what I think is dangerous. [...] That's my gripe: not so much the rule in itself, but the fact that it's all too easy to sail past a give way junction without noticing it and finding yourself in hospital (or worse) for the lack of a simple white line across the road.


I does seem bonkers, I agree. And its bonkersness is amplified by its differing application in different part of France - as mentioned earlier, they are pretty rare in Rhône Alps, and I can't think of one junction within 50 miles of me that I'd note as being unclear or unnecessarily risky.


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## Alex H (18 Sep 2016)

briantrumpet said:


> I does seem bonkers, I agree. And its bonkersness is amplified by its differing application in different part of France - as mentioned earlier, they are pretty rare in Rhône Alps, and I can't think of one junction within 50 miles of me that I'd note as being unclear or unnecessarily risky.



I can only echo what's been said. Someone on here said that _"there were very few examples in France anymore". _On my next 2 rides I counted them - over 30 in a total of 70km. 

I've narrowly escaped twice, fortunately in a car, both in town centres (one being Calais) where there have been no signs.


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## Jimmy Doug (18 Sep 2016)

Alex H said:


> I can only echo what's been said. Someone on here said that _"there were very few examples in France anymore". _On my next 2 rides I counted them - over 30 in a total of 70km.
> 
> I've narrowly escaped twice, fortunately in a car, both in town centres (one being Calais) where there have been no signs.



It's true that you're more likely to come a cropper in the car than on the bike, just because of the speed that you're travelling at. However, I have had a couple of close shaves over the past few years on a bike, so accidents can happen. Fortunately, most motorists coming out of these junctions are careful because they know how dangerous they are. Only the very most arrogant drivers will just pull out in front of you without looking.


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## Shut Up Legs (22 Sep 2016)

When I was in France last week, happily cycling through the Pyrenees and Alps, I certainly didn't have any problem with the motorists. Yes, some do drive fast and even a bit recklessly at times, but in general they're far, far more considerate to cyclists than motorists in Australia will ever be. I enjoyed every minute of my cycling in France.


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## 3narf (24 Sep 2016)

I did a bit of cycling in France; mainly out from CDG where I was staying, round places like Chantilly etc


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## J1888 (31 Jan 2017)

Really useful thread folks, thank you.

Looking to cycle from London to Bordeaux in the summer- thinking cycle to Portsmouth, ferry to St Malo or Caen, then down the western side of France to Bordeaux. Don't often do long rides, so will start training now and trying to knock out a few 100km rides per month. Planning to allow 7 days to get there, with no camping involved, just staying at gites etc. Would it be wisest to book in advance for accommodation?

Also, I'm happy to take a backpack, but will likely need panniers etc, but gonna be hard to fit on my Boardman Team Carbon.

Would I be better taking my Cannondale Hybrid and attaching panniers, as opposed to buying a touring bike?


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## psmiffy (31 Jan 2017)

J1888 said:


> Would I be better taking my Cannondale Hybrid and attaching panniers, as opposed to buying a touring bike?



yes


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## J1888 (31 Jan 2017)

psmiffy said:


> yes



Darn, no excuse for a new bike!! Would much rather take the road bike tbh, but guess it just ain't practical.


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Used a Candice super c saddle bag with support was perfect. Don't forget arse cream also 1l water bottles and sturdier water bottle cages 2 of each were about £15 from Ribble and a couple of tubes of hydration tabs for taste and salts.


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## Poacher (5 Feb 2017)

J1888 said:


> Planning to allow 7 days to get there, with no camping involved, just staying at gites etc. Would it be wisest to book in advance for accommodation?


Most gite owners would prefer at least a few days occupancy, rather than a single night. Chambres d'hôte are more geared up for overnight stays, but not so great if you want a _very _early start, unless you're willing to forgo the breakfast you've paid for. There are several chains of quite cheap but OK hotels offering room only terms. As for booking in advance, it depends what part of the summer you're thinking of travelling - in June you'd probably get in somewhere without booking, but in August you may find yourself having to sleep rough!


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## briantrumpet (5 Feb 2017)

Poacher said:


> There are several chains of quite cheap but OK hotels offering room only terms. As for booking in advance, it depends what part of the summer you're thinking of travelling - in June you'd probably get in somewhere without booking, but in August you may find yourself having to sleep rough!


I had no problems at the beginning of August going from St Malo to Die: first hotel I tried each night had a room, and costs varied from 25 to 50 euros. I did choose larger towns to stop at though, in case the first choice was full.


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Went last July but booked from booking.com around this time last year just chose the cheapest accommodation en route or near to route one of which was a pre erected tent and another a hostel in Toulouse neither of which gave a great sleep which after long days in saddle isn't great which leads me onto next thing, don't under estimate distances which to be fair I was warned of on here add 20 or 30% to Google map distances made the last hour of each day a real challenge. Best thing I've ever done will dit again.


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## briantrumpet (5 Feb 2017)

Yes, agree re the last hour. Most of my days were over 100 miles, which wouldn't be too taxing for me, but with lower-than-expected average speeds, and high daytime temperatures, one or two days were long and hard.


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Holy chit 100 miles that is awsum. With exception of day 4 which I cut short due to knackardness I averaged 75 miles per day, would have preferred 60 miles that Google maps said it wold be which would have given me a hour or so more a day to look at places I was cycling through.


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## J1888 (5 Feb 2017)

Jeez louise - 75 miles will be a struggle for me, starting to get my miles up - did 20 miles yesterday albeit on the Lee Valley road track. Might take a few cycles down to Brighton or maybe even Portsmouth go get the miles in.


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Was a little too far for me really. my original plan was Caen to Barcelona over 8 days then after advice on here decided to shorten the distance with a train journey form Limoges to Toulouse then continue on from there but as I said was knackered on day four so got a train from Montmorillon to the Limoges train, on Google maps this whole journey is 450 miles in real world it was 550 miles.


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## briantrumpet (5 Feb 2017)

Toemul said:


> Holy chit 100 miles that is awsum. With exception of day 4 which I cut short due to knackardness I averaged 75 miles per day, would have preferred 60 miles that Google maps said it wold be which would have given me a hour or so more a day to look at places I was cycling through.


It was mostly an awesome route. Two days from Exeter to Portsmouth, then five days from St Malo to Die: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1441823


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Yep top route and as I said the mileage is awsum.


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## Toemul (5 Feb 2017)

Didn't do much in the way of training just my 12miles daily commute and a couple of 40 milers to get used to the new handle bar set up on the hybrid.


J1888 said:


> Jeez louise - 75 miles will be a struggle for me, starting to get my miles up - did 20 miles yesterday albeit on the Lee Valley road track. Might take a few cycles down to Brighton or maybe even Portsmouth go get the miles in.


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## Winnershsaint (25 Apr 2017)

Does anyone know if it is possible to put a bike on a cable car? I have been doing a bit of route planning for our trip to France at the end of June and thought it would be something a bit different to ride up to Les Deux Alpes and then take the cable car to Venosc and ride alonng the D530 back to Bourg d'Oisans.


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## Dave Davenport (25 Apr 2017)

Winnershsaint said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to put a bike on a cable car? I have been doing a bit of route planning for our trip to France at the end of June and thought it would be something a bit different to ride up to Les Deux Alpes and then take the cable car to Venosc and ride alonng the D530 back to Bourg d'Oisans.


I think they're used for downhill mountain bikes a fair bit so I'd have thought you'd be ok.


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## User269 (25 Apr 2017)

Winnershsaint said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to put a bike on a cable car? I have been doing a bit of route planning for our trip to France at the end of June and thought it would be something a bit different to ride up to Les Deux Alpes and then take the cable car to Venosc and ride alonng the D530 back to Bourg d'Oisans.


You can certainly put a bike on the descent to Venosc from LDA, but there's also a stunning bike exclusive trail suitable for gravel/off road bikes underneath the cable route. Personally, knowing the area well, I'd prefer to ride up to Venosc, ascend to LDA then enjoy the superb descent to Bourg d'Oisans via D220, or Mont de Lans which is a bit longer but not as scenic and quiet as the D220.


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## Winnershsaint (26 Apr 2017)

User269 said:


> You can certainly put a bike on the descent to Venosc from LDA, but there's also a stunning bike exclusive trail suitable for gravel/off road bikes underneath the cable route. Personally, knowing the area well, I'd prefer to ride up to Venosc, ascend to LDA then enjoy the superb descent to Bourg d'Oisans via D220, or Mont de Lans which is a bit longer but not as scenic and quiet as the D220.


Thanks for that info. Not sure if the R3 is up to going x-country. I've been planning my routes for a number of months. The cable car idea was designed as a bit of 'rest' day plan if needed. Also some photo opportunities.


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## RobCyclist (13 Oct 2017)

Really helpful post, thanks for sharing.


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## suzeworld (20 Aug 2018)

briantrumpet said:


> It was mostly an awesome route. Two days from Exeter to Portsmouth, then five days from St Malo to Die: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1441823



Any idea of the amount of climbing involved?
Makes a big difference to me! Tho I reckon I could probably do 80 miles a day if it ain’t too steep. 

Or too hot. This year’s cannicule sapped me.


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## briantrumpet (20 Aug 2018)

suzeworld said:


> Any idea of the amount of climbing involved?
> Makes a big difference to me! Tho I reckon I could probably do 80 miles a day if it ain’t too steep.
> 
> Or too hot. This year’s cannicule sapped me.


Flat/rolling for the first three days in France, then oncreasingly lumpy. But, thankfully, the lumpiest day (the last) was with a tailwind.

Yes, re canicule. It was 40C on my first day here. A bit warm.


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## suzeworld (20 Aug 2018)

Thanks.

I am just researching doing something different next year. Family wedding makes usual long haul drive to Provenance look improbable. Plenty to think about if we go touring. (Wedding is on South coast, so bike on ferry is an option).


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## Donger (11 Sep 2018)

*Priority to the right*:
Never thought I'd be bringing this old chestnut up, as this quaint but confusing old practice seems to have all but died out in many parts of France, other than some small rural villages and towns. But having just returned from a week in Alsace, I have to report that it is alive and well and very much practiced there. Wherever a side road on the right doesn't have a give way sign or a solid line across the road, you can expect to have to give way to traffic coming from your right. Traffic regularly emerges from the right at speed at some junctions and ALL the locals give way. Driving in my car, on one occasion I reacted too slowly to a truck emerging from between two houses at speed, and didn't let him out. I got a long, angry hoot for my crime. Cars and bicycles regularly sauntered out confidently in front of me, and at the T junction coming out of our village onto the main road, traffic ALWAYS stopped dead to wait for us to pull out, even when we were turning left and had to wait for cars coming from our right to get past.

This doesn't seem to be an act of courtesy or kindness, as on one occasion I spent ages trying to pull away at the left of the road and, despite the fact that I was indicating and the traffic was extremely slow, nobody at all was willing to let me out. Then the moment someone turned up at a junction to their right, someone immediately gave way to him. The proprietor of the gite said the locals are very German in their outlook and attitudes (most of them speak a local German dialect), and they strictly obey all rules .... he cited the priority to the right rule, no littering etc. I wondered whether they are actually trying to prove just how French they are by sticking to French traditions longer than the rest of France. Either way, it is something to watch out for if cycling in Alsace.


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## Jimmy Doug (12 Sep 2018)

I can assure you it's still very alive and well around here and in Normandie. There are loads of roads in the big towns that are priorité à droite too. Not just villages! And in some towns they're introducing NEW priorité à droite junctions.


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## User66445 (12 Sep 2018)

Also some roads in Paris are still priority to the right.


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## Donger (12 Sep 2018)

That's interesting. I've driven a lot in France (pretty much all over), and I've always kept it in mind, but seldom seen it so rigidly adhered to. As a matter of self preservation, I always look for solid lines across side roads, just in case. It is also very noticeable that the "Vous n'avez pas priorite" signs for side roads always seem to be angled at about 45 degrees so as to be visible from the main road too. I just wish it was more obvious where in France it is still common practice to just barge your way out confidently and where it isn't. I'm sure Alsace will not be the only place, but I just thought it was worth warning people anyway.


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## Jimmy Doug (12 Sep 2018)

Priorité à droite is the norm in lots of European countries - I've even encountered it in Norway. But I think it is more common in France than elsewhere I've been to.
In Paris, there's another oddity - although I think it's fading away (I've seen it once or twice elsewhere - but it seems to be more a Parisian thing): roundabouts with priorité à droite - marked with a tiny red cross like the red light of a traffic light (very easy to miss). Just bear in mind that usually roundabouts in France are give way to the left!
Still - we Brits can't claim to have perfect road rules either. The Magic Roundabout in Swindon leaves me baffled every time I see it - and I'm used to it, being from Wiltshire originally.


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## DooDah (21 Sep 2018)

Priorité à droite is common place all over France and I have travelled extensively. It is absolutely essential to look out for road signs, if there are none on your passage, then the above rule applies. I have seen far too many accidents, and not all were brits, due to this.


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## Shut Up Legs (16 Oct 2018)

I started to recognise the priorité à droite signs after a while, during my recent 1 month Pyrénées cycling trip. They're a diagonal black cross on white background with a red triangle border. Once a motorist even gave way to me as I neared an intersection and was about to turn off a minor road onto a more major one, because it was a priorité à droite intersection.

I also learned to recognise the similar sign indicating that you have priority: instead of the cross there is an upward arrow.

https://www.drive-france.com/files/2014/2463/0637/Driving_in_France_Road_Signs..jpg


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## briantrumpet (16 Oct 2018)

Shut Up Legs said:


> I started to recognise the priorité à droite signs after a while, during my recent 1 month Pyrénées cycling trip. They're a diagonal black cross on white background with a red triangle border. Once a motorist even gave way to me as I neared an intersection and was about to turn off a minor road onto a more major one, because it was a priorité à droite intersection.
> 
> I also learned to recognise the similar sign indicating that you have priority: instead of the cross there is an upward arrow.


And this one means PaD doesn't apply at all on the road you're on:






And this one means PaD applies again (unless specific junctions have the cross or forwards arrow)


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## Shut Up Legs (16 Oct 2018)

briantrumpet said:


> And this one means PaD doesn't apply at all on the road you're on:
> 
> View attachment 434291
> 
> ...


Yes, they're on that image I linked to.


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## PaulSB (22 Oct 2018)

Having also just returned from the Pyrenees I popped in to post PAD is alive and well, much to my surprise. Although well aware of the rule I don't think I've encountered it in more than 20 years and was of the opinion it had largely died out.

I can't recall seeing the above yellow road signs before and certainly not last week. Thanks for the info.


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## User66445 (16 Mar 2019)

Dress well when cycling in France.


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## briantrumpet (16 Mar 2019)

avole said:


> Dress well when cycling in France.


But don't dress well in yellow when on a bike. Any other colour, but not yellow. Which is a bit awkward when your club kit is yellow...


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## Shut Up Legs (14 Jun 2019)

As I'm heading to the French Alps shortly for another cycling trip (leaving the house in a few hours! ), I revisited the page on _priorité à droite_, and on reading it more closely than before, realised that roundabouts in France are divided into 2 types: those in which vehicles entering the roundabout give way to those in the roundabout (a typical USA or Australian system), and those in which the reverse applies!  I remember the latter type, but don't recall seeing the former type (indicated by the arrows in a circle inside a triangle sign), but now I'll watch for it to see if I can spot any while over there.

Here's the page link again: https://www.autoeurope.com/travel-guides/france/france-road-signs/


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## Vertego (15 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As I'm heading to the French Alps shortly for another cycling trip (leaving the house in a few hours! ), I revisited the page on _priorité à droite_, and on reading it more closely than before, realised that roundabouts in France are divided into 2 types: those in which vehicles entering the roundabout give way to those in the roundabout (a typical USA or Australian system), and those in which the reverse applies!  I remember the latter type, but don't recall seeing the former type (indicated by the arrows in a circle inside a triangle sign), but now I'll watch for it to see if I can spot any while over there.
> 
> Here's the page link again: https://www.autoeurope.com/travel-guides/france/france-road-signs/


I have a recollection of a trip to France in 1988. Such roundabouts were designed to confuse, I'm sure. We even encountered one roundabout in an industrial estate at Toulouse that was a 'hybrid' - there was a mix of priority on the roundabout and priority to traffic entering the roundabout. What fun!


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## Dogtrousers (17 Jun 2019)

Shut Up Legs said:


> As I'm heading to the French Alps shortly for another cycling trip (leaving the house in a few hours! ), I revisited the page on _priorité à droite_, and on reading it more closely than before, realised that roundabouts in France are divided into 2 types: those in which vehicles entering the roundabout give way to those in the roundabout (a typical USA or Australian system), and those in which the reverse applies!  I remember the latter type, but don't recall seeing the former type (indicated by the arrows in a circle inside a triangle sign), but now I'll watch for it to see if I can spot any while over there.
> 
> Here's the page link again: https://www.autoeurope.com/travel-guides/france/france-road-signs/


Interesting. I think _all_ the roundabouts I that use in France are of the "normal" (to a Brit) type (ie vehicle on roundabout has priority). I'll look out for the signs on approach. 

The page says "_most traditional roundabouts in France use this [vehicle joining has priority] priority system_". I think all the roundabouts I'm familiar with are relatively new infrastructure, so I guess that's why they're "normal". I can't think of anything that I'm familiar with that would be described as a "traditional roundabout".

Still I'll be alert and add it to my list of things to be cautious about next time.

Edit. Found another website that says https://about-france.com/highway-code.htm

_ Roundabouts: in 99.9% of cases, priority is indicated. Traffic already on a roundabout has priority over traffic entering it.... so no priority to the right here. EXCEPT at some big urban roundabouts such as the place de l'Etoile on the Champs Elysées in Paris, where it is priority to traffic entering, or trying to enter, the roundabout system._

So that means that 99.9% of the time priority is "normal" (ie vehicle on roundabout has priority). Which would align with my experience.

Unless that is, I've been following the wrong set of rules and all the local French people are too polite and reticent to let me know. Which I feel is somewhat unlikely


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## wotsthat (9 Jul 2019)

yello said:


> An interesting read. I do like to read the perspective of others non-French French residents, there's often a great deal I can empathise with or at least recognise. I've lived in France for 4 years now and am starting to settle to it (that is, what was once foreign is becoming the norm and taken for granted). I do still try to make allowances for difference and try not to be judgemental but I'll admit it is difficult sometimes!
> 
> Priorité à droite can catch you out. Fortunately for me, it's not that often that it is an issue - since where I live is rural so there is very little traffic. It's worth keeping in mind that in rural France, many people do drive as if there'll be nothing coming the other way, or crossing an unmarked junction at the same time. You can understand why - usually they're right! So don't be surprised to see something coming towards you in the middle of the road! That is simply how many people drive. It's regularly remarked upon by ex-pat Brits but completely unremarkable as far as the French are concerned - vive la difference eh!
> 
> ...



Must admit to being confused by the bit about Hunters - please explain - Thank you


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## robing (3 Sep 2019)

I find those stop signs everywhere in French towns annoying and illogical. All drivers completely stop even when the roads are clear. Sometimes where you stop you still cannot see past the junction anyway until you pull forward.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Sep 2019)

Recently back from my annual jaunt to France. My top tip for cycling in France is: *DO IT. It's great.*

Now home, I did a long ride on Sunday on the pothole infested, rutted, chip-n-sealed, crumbling British roads with asinine close-passing British drivers. What a comedown.

As to driving in France, on two lane highways why do people keep their indicators going after changing lanes to overtake a slower vehicle? Does it have some additional meaning like "I'm just overtaking this lorry and when I'm done I'll be going back to the inside lane" or something like that?


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## Shut Up Legs (5 Sep 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Recently back from my annual jaunt to France. My top tip for cycling in France is: *DO IT. It's great.*
> 
> Now home, I did a long ride on Sunday on the pothole infested, rutted, chip-n-sealed, crumbling British roads with asinine close-passing British drivers. What a comedown.
> 
> As to driving in France, on two lane highways why do people keep their indicators going after changing lanes to overtake a slower vehicle? Does it have some additional meaning like "I'm just overtaking this lorry and when I'm done I'll be going back to the inside lane" or something like that?


I can relate to that. As soon as I arrived back in Australia in late July, I just wanted to turn around and head back to the French Alps.


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## mistyoptic (21 Sep 2019)

We are just back from doing the Velodysee from Roscoff to Spanish border on a tandem 

We were amazed at the readiness of drivers to stop and allow us to cross the road at junctions/roundabouts and where the route swaps to the other side of the road.

Did get sworn at one day for riding wrong way up a one way on the road instead of the pavement. My bad


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## francovendee (10 Aug 2020)

I think the norm when overtaking a line of slower vehicles is to leave the flasher going to show you're not just passing the one vehicle.


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## francovendee (10 Aug 2020)

After 17 years living in France I still love cycling here. For me out of season is best. We're in an area that is popular with holiday makers and the roads get busy at times. It's still easy to find quiet lanes and avoid the traffic if you know the area.
A generalization, but we've found there can be more danger to cyclists from Brits . They pass too close and seem more impatient. 
It has never happened when I've been riding, but Brits on the wrong side of the road isn't uncommon, very scary!


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## Moodyman (10 Aug 2020)

Whenever I've been to France riding on the right immediately feels...well...right. when I come back to Blighty, it takes some getting used to riding on the left.

Having grown up with miles, I also find kms so much easier to use.

Why does Britain have to do things differently and perhaps, less goodly.


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## briantrumpet (10 Aug 2020)

francovendee said:


> After 17 years living in France I still love cycling here. For me out of season is best. We're in an area that is popular with holiday makers and the roads get busy at times. It's still easy to find quiet lanes and avoid the traffic if you know the area.
> A generalization, but we've found there can be more danger to cyclists from Brits . They pass too close and seem more impatient.
> It has never happened when I've been riding, but Brits on the wrong side of the road isn't uncommon, very scary!



Yes, out-of-season is a joy in the Drôme... it's a joy in the summer season too, but I'll tend to avoid certain roads a bit more - not that most aren't still OK, but just not as much fun.

Hardly any GB tourists here (I think I've seen two in 2.5 weeks), but the Belgians tend to provide the cr@p driving.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Aug 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Whenever I've been to France riding on the right immediately feels...well...right. when I come back to Blighty, it takes some getting used to riding on the left.
> 
> Having grown up with miles, I also find kms so much easier to use.
> 
> Why does Britain have to do things differently and perhaps, less goodly.



Hat do you find hard about miles?


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## Moodyman (10 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Hat do you find hard about miles?



Inches, yards, miles. 36 inches to a yard, 1760 yards to a mile. Doesn't follow a straightforward logic.

mm, cm, m, km follows a pattern of tens, hundreds and thousands.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Aug 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Inches, yards, miles. 36 inches to a yard, 1760 yards to a mile. Doesn't follow a straightforward logic.
> 
> mm, cm, m, km follows a pattern of tens, hundreds and thousands.



How often do you cycle distances in inches ? You don’t need any of the others just miles is fine.


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## Moodyman (10 Aug 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> How often do you cycle distances in inches ? You don’t need any of the others just miles is fine.



As I said, I grew up with miles and am comfortable with these. But, if I was new to measurements, I would find kms so much easier to work with.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Aug 2020)

Moodyman said:


> As I said, I grew up with miles and am comfortable with these. But, if I was new to measurements, I would find kms so much easier to work with.



But you haven’t explained how. 1.5 miles is just as easy to work with as 1.5 km. 150 yards is just as easy to work with as 150 metres.


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## DRM (10 Aug 2020)

mistyoptic said:


> We are just back from doing the Velodysee from Roscoff to Spanish border on a tandem
> 
> We were amazed at the readiness of drivers to stop and allow us to cross the road at junctions/roundabouts and where the route swaps to the other side of the road.
> 
> Did get sworn at one day for riding wrong way up a one way on the road instead of the pavement. My bad


I noticed this in Brittany one year, l went out Sunday morning to do a loop, and caught a club run, I was invited to tag along for a bit, it was an eye opener to see drivers stop and let the group sweep straight through the roundabouts without stopping, first one was surreal as I was on the brakes and ready to unclip, but the pace stayed the same through the roundabout and straight through the village, I couldn’t help thinking this would have been carnage at home.


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## Fram (13 Aug 2020)

Moodyman said:


> As I said, I grew up with miles and am comfortable with these. But, if I was new to measurements, I would find kms so much easier to work with.


Decimalisation was a huge improvement in the 70s and "imperial" measurements are ridiculous compared to the alternative of metric.


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## briantrumpet (13 Aug 2020)

Fram said:


> Decimalisation was a huge improvement in the 70s and "imperial" measurements are ridiculous compared to the alternative of metric.


I think this debate belongs elsewhere... not that I don't have views about it...


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## Julia9054 (13 Aug 2020)

Moodyman said:


> Whenever I've been to France riding on the right immediately feels...well...right.


Me too. As a strongly left handed/sided person, I find it physically easier to look over my left shoulder and I put my right foot down when I stop which is kerb side when riding on the right


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## straas (18 Aug 2020)

I hired a bike on Il de Re, and had a go on the cycle paths there. 

Absolutely incredible! pedal along for a bit, have a few prawns and a glass of white, bimble off. Bliss.


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## Once a Wheeler (20 Oct 2020)

Jimmy Doug has some good observations.
For me, signage such as this is a major annoyance in France:





Disregard the danger sign and look at the direction signs. This is a crossroads where you could go right, straight-on or left. On many occasions I have turned left, in this case to go to Briançon, only to realize a few kilometres down the road that the correct route is straight on. A lot of local authorities do not seem to know about the use of vertical arrows to indicate the straight-on direction. Vertical arrow straight-on signs may be a bit more common in France now than they used to be but their use is certainly not systematic. Sometimes, but not always, signs such as this Briançon example are slightly angled towards the straight-on route when this is the intended direction. However, this then leaves the sign pointing at no-man's-land and looking like a 'go left' sign that has suffered a tap from a passing lorry. One sort of gets used to it over time but a clear ←︎ (left), →︎︎ (right), and above all ↑︎︎ (straight-on), certainly take some beating: with the ↑︎︎ (straight-on) convention needing systematic top-down and bottom-up imposition throughout France. Here is a stab at what this sign should look like:


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## oldworld (19 Dec 2020)

Wow! This thread is 10 years old. The original post is very helpful but everyone's experience is different. I've never had a problem with french drivers. They've never tried to squeeze past me. They hang back until they can obey the highway code. This means a gap of 1 metre in towns and 1.5 metres everywhere else. British holiday makers take the skin off your elbow when they pass
Hunters do pose a danger on small roads away from villages. They aren't supposed to but hunt along the hedges. My wife got peppered with shot, luckily the hunter was some distance away so the shot was mostly spent and she was just shocked.


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## Biker man (29 Oct 2021)

yello said:


> An interesting read. I do like to read the perspective of others non-French French residents, there's often a great deal I can empathise with or at least recognise. I've lived in France for 4 years now and am starting to settle to it (that is, what was once foreign is becoming the norm and taken for granted). I do still try to make allowances for difference and try not to be judgemental but I'll admit it is difficult sometimes!
> 
> Priorité à droite can catch you out. Fortunately for me, it's not that often that it is an issue - since where I live is rural so there is very little traffic. It's worth keeping in mind that in rural France, many people do drive as if there'll be nothing coming the other way, or crossing an unmarked junction at the same time. You can understand why - usually they're right! So don't be surprised to see something coming towards you in the middle of the road! That is simply how many people drive. It's regularly remarked upon by ex-pat Brits but completely unremarkable as far as the French are concerned - vive la difference eh!
> 
> ...


Is there a English written 
French highway code you can read before you go.


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## Punkawallah (29 Oct 2021)

briantrumpet said:


> But don't dress well in yellow when on a bike. Any other colour, but not yellow. Which is a bit awkward when your club kit is yellow...


Why would this be, please?


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## briantrumpet (29 Oct 2021)

Punkawallah said:


> Why would this be, please?



The yellow jersey from the Tour de France: it's an almost sacred symbol amongst proper French cyclists, and you might well get some filthy looks.


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## briantrumpet (29 Oct 2021)

Updating this on driver behaviour from this year...

I'm not sure what's come over Belgian drivers this year, but they are now no longer officially the worst at passing cyclists... in fact, they were rather good. The prize this year, weirdly, goes to Dutch drivers, especially ones with caravans. (British drivers don't qualify for the league, as I only saw about six in eight weeks.)


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## Punkawallah (30 Oct 2021)

briantrumpet said:


> The yellow jersey from the Tour de France: it's an almost sacred symbol amongst proper French cyclists, and you might well get some filthy looks.


Ah! Thanks for that. :-)


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## DRM (30 Oct 2021)

Punkawallah said:


> Ah! Thanks for that. :-)


I think the average French cyclist can tell the difference between a maillot jaune and a jersey, club or otherwise that just happens to be yellow


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## Biker man (30 Oct 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> I think the lack of helicopters is likely to be a bit of a giveaway.


Was going to go cycling in France with my mate but Covid and lock down came so I don't about it .I hired a bike in Canada the man said keep a eye out for bears unnerved me a bit .🤠


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## briantrumpet (30 Oct 2021)

DRM said:


> I think the average French cyclist can tell the difference between a maillot jaune and a jersey, club or otherwise that just happens to be yellow



I'm sure they can, and though I do wear my (yellow) club jersey there, I still quite like the fact that, even amongst not-cyclists, yellow jerseys are 'a thing'.


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## neil_merseyside (31 Oct 2021)

I got honked by a French registered car in France, I told the driver "to go (in short jerky motions) back to the UK" he seemed rather stunned I knew he spoke english. Easy peasy, a frenchman would never honk a cyclist, and actually only foreigners ever drove (drive? has it changed?) cars with a 60 in the registration. Other (near) Europeans obviously had their own cars, so that only leaves brits, or merkins with impatience issues with regard to cyclists obeying the rules of the road. 
To be fair Brits can't cope with being on the other side of the road with gear stick where the door handle should be...


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## Brandane (31 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> a frenchman would never honk a cyclist,


They do! I've been honked at regularly in France. The difference being, it has always been a double honk, in a friendly toot-toot way, sometimes accompanied by a wave of encouragement or something shouted (assumingly friendly going by the tone) out the Peugeot/Citroen/Renault window, while I have been struggling my way up a hill!
The British equivalent would be a close pass, a long blast of the horn, and "get a feckin car" shouted out the BMW/Audi/Merc window.


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> only foreigners ever drove (drive? has it changed?) cars with a 60 in the registration


I wasn't aware it ever was like that tbh. Did you do a lot of cycling in the Oise by any chance? Because that's department 60.


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## Biker man (31 Oct 2021)

Brandane said:


> They do! I've been honked at regularly in France. The difference being, it has always been a double honk, in a friendly toot-toot way, sometimes accompanied by a wave of encouragement or something shouted (assumingly friendly going by the tone) out the Peugeot/Citroen/Renault window, while I have been struggling my way up a hill!
> The British equivalent would be a close pass, a long blast of the horn, and "get a feckin car" shouted out the BMW/Audi/Merc window.


You get it everywhere when I was in Cambridgeshire a white van Man would blast his horn from behind you it was madness .


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## neil_merseyside (31 Oct 2021)

yello said:


> I wasn't aware it ever was like that tbh. Did you do a lot of cycling in the Oise by any chance? Because that's department 60.


I'm told all the hire car companies used that department for taxing vehicles as it was cheapest! Certainly in 10 years of working in France (and CH) all the French hire cars had 60 number plates. 
I can say that department 75 and 92+ drivers could all qualify as Brits from driving (in)ability...


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> I'm told all the hire car companies used that department for taxing vehicles as it was cheapest!



Ah, gotcha now. I've not noticed and to be perfectly honest, I've no idea but I'd certainly say it was possible. There is a 'local' level taxation applied on some things, and it wouldn't surprise me if car reg was one of them, but I've no idea who sets it, how it's controlled etc etc etc.

You've piqued my interest now! I'll both keep an eye out and do a bit of research.


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## Brandane (31 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> department 75


Paris. 
Did they not change the registration formats a while back though? A lot of newer cars seem to have different formats, dropping the regional identifiers which used to be the last 2 digits.


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

Brandane said:


> Did they not change the registration formats a while back though? A lot of newer cars seem to have different formats, dropping the regional identifiers which used to be the last 2 digits.



They did (2009?), though obviously you still have loads of old style plates around. The car keeps its reg number for life now, though re-registration is still expensive and, yes, there are indeed different regional level taxes to pay as a part of that cost. Quite significant differences too, depending on the vehicle. So I could well imagine that a hire company might base its fleet in one particular department (though obviously the reg number would no longer show which department).


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## DRM (31 Oct 2021)

Brandane said:


> Paris.
> Did they not change the registration formats a while back though? A lot of newer cars seem to have different formats, dropping the regional identifiers which used to be the last 2 digits.


Yes they did alter, but they have the blue euro F on the left, on the right they have the department symbol and number, the actual reg number doesn’t give any clue as to where it comes from now


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## DRM (31 Oct 2021)

I’ve never had any hassle when riding in France, from any kind of vehicle, only once had an elderly bloke pull out in front of me and he was very apologetic and no harm done, even HGV’s stay back as you negotiate roundabouts and give you a nice wide berth as they pass.


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

DRM said:


> on the right they have the department symbol and number, the actual reg number doesn’t give any clue as to where it comes from now



Interestingly (or maybe not) you can have any department symbol/number you like. Or none at all.


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## DRM (31 Oct 2021)

yello said:


> Interestingly (or maybe not) you can have any department symbol/number you like. Or none at all.


I suppose it would depend on where the car was purchased, for example if you bought a car whilst living in Poiteau Charentes it should be a 17, but if it came from a dealer in the Vendee it could be an 85, or 33 from Aquitaine, much as in the UK if I bought a car in the Leeds Registration area it could be YA to YK, pick it up from Hull it could be YT to YY


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

DRM said:


> I suppose it would depend on where the car was purchased



What I meant was that you can select whatever department you want. I can go online or into the equivalent of Halfords, show them my reg document and have a plate made up bearing the logo and dept no. of any department I choose (so long as they have it in stock obviously!) 

I might live in Paris, with my car registered to my address there, but I could still have a number plate bearing the Corsican logo and dept no. A car we bought last year had the neighbouring Haute-Vienne logo/number on the plate and there was no obligation to change it. We did, but only to avoid confusion at the local rubbish tip! (where 'foreigners' are not allowed)


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## DRM (31 Oct 2021)

yello said:


> What I meant was that you can select whatever department you want. I can go online or into the equivalent of Halfords, show them my reg document and have a plate made up bearing the logo and dept no. of any department I choose (so long as they have it in stock obviously!)
> 
> I might live in Paris, with my car registered to my address there, but I could still have a number plate bearing the Corsican logo and dept no. A car we bought last year had the neighbouring Haute-Vienne logo/number on the plate and there was no obligation to change it. We did, but only to avoid confusion at the local rubbish tip! (where 'foreigners' are not allowed)


I was assuming the car dealer would supply the car with a local identifier on it, but the tip scenario makes sense, so it would make sense to fit the local identifier for your home department


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## neil_merseyside (31 Oct 2021)

yello said:


> I've not noticed and to be perfectly honest, I've no idea but I'd certainly say it was possible.



It is very obvious in all the holiday locations I've worked as everyone who turned up was always in a 60 department reg car. I'd forgotten they'd changed the format away from an identifier, did they change the number plate colour requirement at the same time?


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## yello (31 Oct 2021)

neil_merseyside said:


> did they change the number plate colour requirement at the same time?



Another good question! I don't know 

I associate the old plates with being black and white, and newer ones as white and... whatever they are... but I've no idea what the actual regs on it are! Funny isn't it - you live with these around you on a daily basis but can't actually bring the seemingly obvious to mind when you want to!


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## RichardB (6 Nov 2021)

yello said:


> I associate the old plates with being black and white, and newer ones as white and... whatever they are...



Squeaking of which ... I have noticed in France that most reg plates are black and white but some are red and white. Anyone know the significance of this?


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## neil_merseyside (6 Nov 2021)

RichardB said:


> Squeaking of which ... I have noticed in France that most reg plates are black and white but some are red and white. Anyone know the significance of this?


Red plates are temporary new registration I believe.


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## RichardB (9 Nov 2021)

Thank you!


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## Spacer (12 Apr 2022)

Hi, great to read these posts. I've lived in France for 32 years but only recently started bike touring here. Last summer I did a 10 day jaunt from Atlantic coast downwards to Bordeaux area then inland to the Cevennes and a little past them. I mixed camping in campgrounds with a few airBnB and wild camping. The wild camping was by far the most fun, but mostly because I speak fluent french and asked permission- (so maybe it isn't technically "wild camping"?). Anyhow people were super nice, never got refused, was offered a few meals and I had awesome spots- especially in the plateaus east of the Cevennes and in the mountains themselves. Municipal campgrounds were great- a lot cleaner and nicer than 30 years ago! And they serve craft beer now! ; ) Its rare that there isn't a place for a lone or two cyclists. 
I never tried a camper "aire".. I'd not really want to, but I suppose in a pinch one might have to. About the priorité à droite: it's a real subject, mostly because one is rarely faced with it- so when you are, you're taken by surprise - especially in my view when arriving in a small town after being alone all day on country roads. The only negaative thing I'd say (but it's not specific by any means to France) is that there have been agressions (and worse) of cyclists. Maybe just run-ins with the wrong people, but a spanish fellow was murdered last year in the Rhone Valley..I never once had any fear, but my sense is you gotta be smart in general. I would never camp in anything but an official campground or on private property with permission anywhere near a fairly densely or densely inhabited area. Certain areas in the south of France seem sketchier potentially- Rhone valley, the Var, the Medit coast. This could be because of high tourist populations and many secondary country homes left alone, but common sense will def keep you on the safe side. Bonne route! - Peter


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