# Had a crash this morning



## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Bit wet on the roads but you know that feeling when you are descending and you pull the brake levers and nothing happens....!

I had no control and that feeling when you are hurtling down a hill getting quicker on each turn is bloody frightening!! I almost lost it on several turns it was that fast, eventually ending at a T junction going straight over and head on into someones garden wall, bruised and battered but was able to get it together and complete the ride.

Unreal, not sure if any unseen damage has occurred with the bike. Bar tape all ripped off....but that’s seems to be it, was a bit lucky to escape with a cut arm and leg. Wowsers.


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## PaulSB (28 Jun 2020)

I always hate reading about crashes. Glad to hear you're OK but will probably get a but stiff.


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## Mugshot (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Bit wet on the roads but you know that feeling when you are descending and you pull the brake levers and nothing happens....!
> 
> I had no control and that feeling when you are hurtling down a hill getting quicker on each turn is bloody frightening!! I almost lost it on several turns it was that fast, eventually ending at a T junction going straight over and head on into someones garden wall, bruised and battered but was able to get it together and complete the ride.
> 
> Unreal, not sure if any unseen damage has occurred with the bike. Bar tape all ripped off....but that’s seems to be it, was a bit lucky to escape with a cut arm and leg. Wowsers.


If you were straight on you may be lucky if you haven't buggered your forks. Check em carefully. 
And check yourself carefully too!!! GWS.


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## Phaeton (28 Jun 2020)

GWS as someone who came off almost a week ago I know how much fun it is not.


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## PeteXXX (28 Jun 2020)

No brakes, front or rear? What brakes were they? Even in the wet you should be able to slow down, if not, stop gradually. 
Hope you and the bike are OK. Get yourself checked out, if you can.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Calliper brakes, I’ve not been 100% about them and to be honest, I’ve been tweaking them off and on to try and get the best setting.

Is the actual brake block supposed to be in contact with the rim ? Or just off it, I’ve rode with it tight on and it had that dragging noise so I loosened a bit, today the brakes seem to be okay on small declines and flat, but it’s not until you come up against a decent gradient you find out how good they are. Hands were like on a roller coaster trying to get some sort of halt, shoes on the floor, in the verges desperate to try and find some grip. Just how do you slow down without brakes ???


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## rogerzilla (28 Jun 2020)

I once managed to slide 100 yards with both wheels locked on a greasy road. Doesn't matter how good your brakes are, if the tyre can't grip!

(I have also managed to get both wheels locked on a completely dry road, which is easier than it sounds).


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Bottom of the hill at the T junction. I sort of tried to turn but it was too fast, ended up hitting that wall and bush ! I think the bush helped. Jeez I can still feel that panic going down. It was bloody epic though at that speed 🤣


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## vickster (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Calliper brakes, I’ve not been 100% about them and to be honest, I’ve been tweaking them off and on to try and get the best setting.
> 
> Is the actual brake block supposed to be in contact with the rim ? Or just off it, I’ve rode with it tight on and it had that dragging noise so I loosened a bit, today the brakes seem to be okay on small declines and flat, but it’s not until you come up against a decent gradient you find out how good they are. Hands were like on a roller coaster trying to get some sort of halt, shoes on the floor, in the verges desperate to try and find some grip. Just how do you slow down without brakes ???


There should be a gap otherwise the pad will rub!

From now on, maybe try slowing down a bit in general in wet conditions! Next time you could end up very seriously injured or worse


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

It’s the Pitroddie descent in Perth if anyone on here knows it.


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## rogerzilla (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> View attachment 532880
> 
> Bottom of the hill at the T junction. I sort of tried to turn but it was too fast, ended up hitting that wall and bush ! I think the bush helped. Jeez I can still feel that panic going down. It was bloody epic though at that speed 🤣


I know a guy who went over a dry stone wall and was found some distance into a field. He was a bit concussed and doesn't remember anything but his bike computer shows he hit a maximum speed of just over 50mph down the hill in question. I'm not sure he braked at all!


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Holy Cow....that’s even worse. To be honest I was nearly in the guys garden. I think I must have turned the bike slightly and used my right side to take the force, I remember my head was over the top of the wall for a second !!

Spoiled a decent ride.

https://strava.app.link/1jMrA3YqG7


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## PeteXXX (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Calliper brakes, I’ve not been 100% about them and to be honest, I’ve been tweaking them off and on to try and get the best setting.
> 
> Is the actual brake block supposed to be in contact with the rim ? Or just off it, I’ve rode with it tight on and it had that dragging noise so I loosened a bit, today the brakes seem to be okay on small declines and flat, but it’s not until you come up against a decent gradient you find out how good they are. Hands were like on a roller coaster trying to get some sort of halt, shoes on the floor, in the verges desperate to try and find some grip. Just how do you slow down without brakes ???


Were the quick release levers down? It's possible to forget to lock them down post-fettle..


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

Your gpx file says that immediately before impact you were doing 16mph.
You had been doing 31mph at the top of the hill, but you had mamanged to knock off a lot of your speed, so your brakes must have been having some effect.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

There is absolutely no way any properly adjusted set of brakes just fails completely front and rear. 

It's not about disc vs caliper. 

If you're not absolutely certain what caused this and are able to fix it, get it to a bike shop. Immediately.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Your gpx file says that immediately before impact you were doing 16mph.
> You had been doing 31mph at the top of the hill, but you had mamanged to knock off a lot of your speed, so your brakes must have been having some effect.



where do you see this ? Must have been my feet !


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jun 2020)

Steel rims or aluminium?


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> where do you see this ? Must have been my feet !


As I said, your gpx file.
I'm no techy, but downloaded it from Strava and then read it.
I've deleted it and am not sure if I can screen grab the speeds. I'll try again.


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## vickster (28 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Steel rims or aluminium?


Presumably alu, as it‘s a modern Specialized in his avatar?


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## Globalti (28 Jun 2020)

A mountain biker died in exactly the same circumstances at Rivington back in about 1993. That was before disc brakes became common.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Smokin Joe said:


> Steel rims or aluminium?



The guy who gave me the bike put some Mavic Askiums on replacing the Specialized OEM wheels


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

Let's try this. I couldn't screen grab with info showing so I took some photos of my PC screen.
Top of the hill






Bottom of the hill




Quite clearly shows 24.4 mph at the top, and 16.0 at the bottom.

Not wishing to sound smug, but that bend doesn't look too horrendous to take at 16 mph.


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

Apologies are due. I confused the distance and your speed. The fastest that I can see you travelling at the top of the hill was 25.6 mph.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> The guy who gave me the bike put some Mavic Askiums on replacing the Specialized OEM wheels



It is simply essential either to understand basic maintenance or have your bike very frequently serviced by someone who does. 

Cycling uk basics:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycling-guide/guide-routine-cycle-safety-service-checks

The excellent Park tool series on rim brakes. 

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/?area[]=48

It's not complicated, but it does need some time putting in. If you can't or lack the confidence, get it to a bike shop. A good one will explain what's wrong as well as fixing it.


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## midlife (28 Jun 2020)

Isn't there some eye fixation phenomenon that stops you turning corners and go straight on?


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

Here's a screen grab at 1:25,000 of the junction. Shows it better thatn the 1:50,000 used above. 
Anyone else think that bend is rideable at 16mph?


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## pawl (28 Jun 2020)

Touch wood I have never had a problem in the wet with my Ultegra brakes If descending in wet conditions I usually feather the brakes.Have had some scary moments on chrome rims


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Felt like I was doing 40mph !! Maybe a more experienced, higher skilled rider could have handled the whole situation better but I’ve only been doing this since March.

https://goo.gl/maps/7z4tHZ6vWyesQKN2A


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## pawl (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Here's a screen grab at 1:25,000 of the junction. Shows it better thatn the 1:50,000 used above.
> Anyone else think that bend is rideable at 16mph?
> View attachment 532894


 

Possibly pushing it a bit in wet conditions unless you can use the full width of the road,


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## midlife (28 Jun 2020)

Ah, found it. Target Fixation. Maybe the OP was concentrating on the wall?


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

midlife said:


> Isn't there some eye fixation phenomenon that stops you turning corners and go straight on?


I always thought that your bike went where you looked. Look straight on, and you'll go straight on. Look round the bend, and you'll go round the bend.


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

midlife said:


> Ah, found it. Target Fixation. Maybe the OP was concentrating on the wall?


Yup. Sounds about right.


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## Phaeton (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Here's a screen grab at 1:25,000 of the junction. Shows it better thatn the 1:50,000 used above.
> Anyone else think that bend is rideable at 16mph?


Any particular reason you're picking on this guy who has just had an accident & had a car been coming may not be with us now for you to take the piss out of?


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## Slick (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Felt like I was doing 40mph !! Maybe a more experienced, higher skilled rider could have handled the whole situation better but I’ve only been doing this since March.
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/7z4tHZ6vWyesQKN2A


Don't worry about it, talk is cheap. The fact is, you went into the wall, what anyone else may or may not have done or even thinks they may have done is irrelevant.

I hope that you feel better soon, and the bike obviously.


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## gavroche (28 Jun 2020)

Glad you are ok and will live to ride another day. That's why I won't ride in the rain, too risky.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Felt like I was doing 40mph !! Maybe a more experienced, higher skilled rider could have handled the whole situation better but I’ve only been doing this since March.
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/7z4tHZ6vWyesQKN2A



OK, my last here. 

In addition to the comments above on brake maintenance, the strava trace is a bit mysterious. 

It shows you got your speed quite low on the steeper part of the descent at the top, but couldn't on the lower, much less steep part. 

Did something change in the brakes during the descent? Has a cable snapped? Are the blocks completely worn down to the metal carriers? It's very hard to understand how you can slow a bike successfully to ~15kph on a 12% section, but not on a 3% section immediately following, without some fairly significant failure. 

And I'll bang on one more time: learn the maintenance or get thee to a bike shop!

My apologies for being so tedious.


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## Darius_Jedburgh (28 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Any particular reason you're picking on this guy who has just had an accident & had a car been coming may not be with us now for you to take the piss out of?


Any reason you're picking on me?
Guy hit the wall at a lower speed than he claimed. That bend is not extreme and could be ridden at the speed he was doing. Guy messed up on a badly maintained bike.
Guy admits he doesn't know what he is doing, another lockdown disaster cyclist.

I'm just pointing out what actually happened. If you have a problem with the true nature of the events then you need to wake up. 

Yes, a car could have been on the road that he shot across, but really that is nobody's fault but the cyclist. Think of the innocent car driver and what he would have been out through by P.C. Plod. 
Isn't there still a 5 mile limit in Scotland?

The cyclist got it wrong.


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## Slick (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Any reason you're picking on me?
> Guy hit the wall at a lower speed than he claimed. That bend is not extreme and could be ridden at the speed he was doing. Guy messed up on a badly maintained bike.
> Guy admits he doesn't know what he is doing, another lockdown disaster cyclist.
> 
> ...


There was never a 5 mile limit.


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## vickster (28 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> There was never a 5 mile limit.


Indeed, think that’s Wales


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## Slick (28 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Indeed, think that’s Wales


I cycle 16 miles each way to work.


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## vickster (28 Jun 2020)

Slick said:


> I cycle 16 miles each way to work.


Don’t think the limit would apply to essential travel regardless


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> another lockdown disaster cyclist



Give him a break. We all learn from our mistakes. 

There's no way I'd deliberately take a T junction like that at 16mph in the rain, and I think it's pretty likely I'd have crashed at that speed if I tried. Particularly given thay it looks gravelly to boot. In fact, I'd probably have deliberately crashed into the verge rather than enter that junction uncontrolled without visibility.


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## Phaeton (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Any reason you're picking on me?


Yes, for whatever reason presumably for your own personal gratification you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, which seems to be your current MO

Maybe the guy got it wrong, maybe he had a mechanical failure, maybe he just panicked, I don't know I wasn't there, just like you weren't so you have no idea if you could have got around that corner or not, what were the exact road conditions when it happened, when was the last diesel spill on the descent, how much gravel is on the junction. You seemed to have taken great pleasure in downloading his Strava dissecting it into infinite detail to try to prove he is lying, WHY?



Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Guy admits he doesn't know what he is doing, another lockdown disaster cyclist.


44 Miles & nearly 3,000ft of climbing, I don't think he's a new cyclist.

Anyway before I put what I actually think & get a ban, I'll put the thread on ignore.


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## pawl (28 Jun 2020)

Phaeton said:


> Any particular reason you're picking on this guy who has just had an accident & had a car been coming may not be with us now for you to take the piss out of?




Accidents happened the more experienced of us.I woke up laying flat on my back came off after taking a road hump.that I have always negotiated without problems in the past.Result broken collarbone.Not sure how it happened.Can only think that when I eased out of the saddle to take the hump that l may have twisted the bars slightly a d didn’t hit the hump square on


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## nickyboy (28 Jun 2020)

I think it's a reasonable topic to discuss. On the face of it, looks like the OP adjusted his brakes to the extent the gap between the blocks and the rims was too wide and, as a result, couldn't exert enough braking power on a steep descent

It's an easy mistake to make. Maybe the thread will be read by someone who also doesn't know how to adjust brakes correctly and it might prevent them having a similar accident


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2020)

Another possibility - oily filth on the braking surfaces of the wheel rims? 



ColinJ said:


> Here's what the wet wipes looked like after I cleaned the rims after nearly shooting out onto an A-road at the foot of a steep, wet descent!
> 
> View attachment 451312


My brakes hardly worked at all until I cleaned the rims, but after cleaning they were great.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Jun 2020)

I'd simply put it down to experience (Which unfortunately comes after you need it), learn from it and forget about it.

We all got it wrong in the early days.


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## DCBassman (28 Jun 2020)

I will say this about dual-pivot caliper brakes. I've so far owned two sets, the no-names that were on the Scott when I got it, and a set of vintage 105s just recently installed. With drop-bar brifters, they were awful. Cleaned the rims REALLY well, slight improvement. Changed back to flat bars and appropriately-set levers. Huge improvement. Install Koolstop Salmons. Even bigger improvement. The 105s *might* have improved it a little more, but I doubt it. Basically, the new blocks on clean rims with decent levers mean I have stopping power that feels equivalent to the V-brakes on my mtb, and they are _good. _
This, more than anything else, has decided me against ever returning to drops, because I doubt that any drop levers are hugely better than the ones I had (Sora). 
Whatever, the stopping power I now have has increased my confidence on the bike.


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## Globalti (28 Jun 2020)

Simple answer it to get a bike with disc brakes.


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## G3CWI (28 Jun 2020)

Did you get a pb?


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## Grant Fondo (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Bit wet on the roads but you know that feeling when you are descending and you pull the brake levers and nothing happens....!
> 
> I had no control and that feeling when you are hurtling down a hill getting quicker on each turn is bloody frightening!! I almost lost it on several turns it was that fast, eventually ending at a T junction going straight over and head on into someones garden wall, bruised and battered but was able to get it together and complete the ride.
> 
> Unreal, not sure if any unseen damage has occurred with the bike. Bar tape all ripped off....but that’s seems to be it, was a bit lucky to escape with a cut arm and leg. Wowsers.


Glad you are ok! Set of these longer drop Tekros on Amazon are £30. Not the last word in quality, but with cleaned up rims should do the job


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## DCBassman (28 Jun 2020)

Globalti said:


> Simple answer it to get a bike with disc brakes.


In most circumstances, there's no point. I could not stop any quicker with them than I already do. However, if I were an all-weather commuter, for example, then definitely.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

Globalti said:


> Simple answer it to get a bike with disc brakes.




Absolutely not. 

Poorly maintained disc brakes are every bit as dangerous as poorly maintained rim brakes. 

Properly adjusted rim brakes will easily lock up the wheels in the wet. I cycle all winter on a commute with hills and have literally never had a problem with braking power. Road traction - yes. Discs do not help with that. 

The simple answer is to learn how to maintain your brakes, whatever system they are.


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## si_c (28 Jun 2020)

As @roubaixtuesday says properly adjusted rim brakes should stop a bike - even in the wet - without difficulty. It might take a little longer than disc brakes under some circumstances, but stop it will.

From my own experience, 20mph to zero in the dry should be under 5m. I'm thinking that the brakes are improperly adjusted and possibly the pads are old and have become hardened and no longer abrading against the rim properly. I bought a bike last year second hand which had sat in a shed for 18months it braked OK in the dry but was pretty terrible in the wet and buying new pads made a huge difference.

@plastic_cylclist it would be useful for us to see a picture of the front brake as it's currently setup from the front and also from above so we can see the pads and the arm positions. This should eliminate a lot of the speculation above about setup.

The good news is that a new set of pads and setting up the brakes properly shouldn't cost you more than about £15 if you do it yourself.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)




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## midlife (28 Jun 2020)

Is it me or is the brake block missing the rim braking surface?


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## Grant Fondo (28 Jun 2020)

Grant Fondo said:


> Glad you are ok! Set of these longer drop Tekros on Amazon are £30. Not the last word in quality, but with cleaned up rims should do the job
> View attachment 532902


Sorry, erroneous post meant for _Rubbing Brakes_ post, doh


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Maybe this is the problem!!

I do agree to a certain extent with the LFC guy, I had been having issues and I wasn’t 100% but still I didn’t bother to go over them in great detail, just a tweak....and then took on a fairly slopey road....so yes I need to sharpen up, it’s not going to put me off for sure. I love it and doing it in Perthsogre

Also, I would disagree with his assumptions on being a lockdown cyclist. I was a runner but foot injuries forced me onto the pedals and coincidentally this happened as lockdown started (actually my mate suggested we do a Dualathlon which we both signed up for in Jan) so I had to get a bike!

I’m not one of the full families that rocked up to Halfords and ordered the cheapest bikes for all family members. I like to think I did it properly, hence one of the reasons I signed up to this forum - I’ve gathered so much info on my way to being a noob.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

midlife said:


> Is it me or is the brake block missing the rim braking surface?



YES ! When I looked after the event I noticed this didn’t look to be hitting the correct part of the rim.


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> View attachment 532910


Very badly adjusted brakes. The blocks arent on the braking surface. You were trying to stop on the stickers. No wonder you crashed. Get them fixed.


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## Grant Fondo (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> YES ! When I looked after the event I noticed this didn’t look to be hitting the correct part of the rim.


Crikey, some fettling required! New blocks if uneven wear on those. Are both sides missing rim?


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2020)

There is nothing wrong with caliper brakes, even older single pivot. You just need to adjust properly. I'd say discs can be problematic if you aren't careful with oil, WD40 etc, get that near the discs....


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## Rusty Nails (28 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Indeed, think that’s Wales



There is a five mile "rule of thumb" for non-essential motoring, that can be further in rural areas.

No limit on distance for cyclists, but a recommendation it should be "within their ability level". Try policing that one!


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## BalkanExpress (28 Jun 2020)

@plastic_cylclist you got out of jail on that one! But we probably all have an experience we can look back on and go “i got lucky there” 

What is important is that you learn the lesson, in this case how to adjust brakes, and go on to enjoy your riding...safely


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> View attachment 532910



YIIIIKES!

My guess is that they were probably just about impinging on the rims at the start if the descent then popped past under hard pressure half way down leading to total failure.

The pads are now worn very unevenly as a result of the poor set up.

You need new pads and to set up the brakes properly. The park tool guides posted up thread will show you the way.

These kind of jobs are much, much easier if you invest in a work stand, even a dirt cheap one.

[Edit: that looks like the front wheel? Make sure you do the rear too! ]


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jun 2020)

Darius_Jedburgh said:


> Here's a screen grab at 1:25,000 of the junction. Shows it better thatn the 1:50,000 used above.
> Anyone else think that bend is rideable at 16mph?
> View attachment 532894



Yes if you turn left from right hand side of road or turn right from left hand side of road to reduce angle in wet. But I guess the op was panicking with white knuckle syndrome at this point.

I notice there is wide gate just to right of crash. If that was open I’d have aimed for that and the gravel beyond. A friend did that years ago when they failed to slow enough in the Lake District.


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## HLaB (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> View attachment 532910


Is that a result of the crash or were the brakes that baddly aligned to start with 
I know the area around Kilspindie quite well from my youth


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## AndyRM (28 Jun 2020)

As others have said @plastic_cylclist - your brakes really need adjusting, those are way off.

You want them like this:


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## Cycleops (28 Jun 2020)

Glad you’re okay, how did the wall come off


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jun 2020)

Once adjusted, always pull the brake levers and check the blocks connect with the braking surface correctly. Make sure levers aren’t touching or close to bars when you pull with moderate force. Someone mentioned a park tools video so don’t forget to look at that.

I can also recommend the Zinn Art of Bike Maintenance books. Had the mtn bike one for years and it is great for handling with oily fingers without worrying about it.


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## BoldonLad (28 Jun 2020)

midlife said:


> Isn't there some eye fixation phenomenon that stops you turning corners and go straight on?



When I was learning to ride a motorcycle, instructor always told us, "look where you intend to go, not at the obstacle". She (Instructor) always said this was something to do with centre of gravity. I have no idea why, but, it did work.


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## Rusty Nails (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Maybe this is the problem!!
> 
> I do agree to a certain extent with the LFC guy, I had been having issues and I wasn’t 100% but still I didn’t bother to go over them in great detail, just a tweak....and then took on a fairly slopey road....so yes I need to sharpen up, it’s not going to put me off for sure. I love it and doing it in Perthsogre
> 
> ...



At least you managed to learn what could have been a very expensive lesson without too much damage. You will probably remember to check brakes more regularly in future. Bike maintenance is always worth spending time on.

And don't worry about the odd negative/dismissive comment you get about your bike or your riding. Those people are in a very small minority and you soon learn to ignore them. Most people like to help.


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## Brads (28 Jun 2020)

Glad you are ok, those are pretty badly set up brakes.

As an aside, am I the only one who hates when self righteous types dive on a thread and take every detail to the N'th degree to make out that a poster is a liar, or a fraud, or is just simply wrong, but they are right and you better know it !

Folk with no life in my opinion who would do better to stay away from the internet. 

They guy made a mistake, and exaggerated cause he nearly shoot a brick crashing his bike.
Hardly worth giving him a hard time over eh?


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Cheers guys, sound advice, I think its high time I booked the vehicle in for a full MOT and service before my next outing, they can also supply and fit new brakes, plus anything else they pick up.

Learn the harsh way. The fact is, having been slightly unsure in my mind, I should have done some pre-work on them and checked them thoroughly.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Grant Fondo said:


> Crikey, some fettling required! New blocks if uneven wear on those. Are both sides missing rim?


No, the other side is hugging the rim, but its right up close touching it.


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## Brads (28 Jun 2020)

To be fair to yourself, just get on youtube, learn how to set up rim brakes and do it yourself, its not hard, and you'll feel better that you managed it yourself.


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## dodgy (28 Jun 2020)

Maybe a friendly mod can edit your username 😂😜


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## rogerzilla (28 Jun 2020)

Disc brakes, especially hydraulics, are a DIY maintenance disaster waiting to happen unless you're meticulous and well-informed.


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## ChrisEyles (28 Jun 2020)

One other point worth mentioning is be careful your brake blocks are clear of the tyre, and won't contact them even as the pads wear. 

I've seen this before, and there is potential for a nasty accident if you blow the front tyre at speed on a descent. 

From my experience target fixation is a real issue, and it takes practice to look where you need to go rather than at the impending obstacle. 

Sounds like a horrible experience, glad you escaped relatively unscathed! 

Rest up, take it easy for a bit after a nasty shock, get your bike sorted by someone who knows what they're doing, and gradually build your confidence back up. 

I'm sure most of us have had either an accident or near miss a bit like this at some point. Good judgement comes from experience, but unfortunately experience comes from poor judgement!


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> Maybe a friendly mod can edit your username 😂😜


I was going to get that sorted, but thought "Och aye, looks funny, so lets leave it!"


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Cheers guys, sound advice, I think its high time I booked the vehicle in for a full MOT and service before my next outing, they can also supply and fit new brakes, plus anything else they pick up.
> 
> Learn the harsh way. The fact is, having been slightly unsure in my mind, I should have done some pre-work on them and checked them thoroughly.



Very wise.

But I would also encourage you to learn brake maintenance. It's not at all difficult, a lot easier than lugging bikes to shops and back, a lot quicker too, and cheaper.

Plus, you can be confident in your brakes all the time, not just immediately after a service.


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## ColinJ (28 Jun 2020)

I'm glad that you _SOMEHOW _escaped serious injury there!

I was doing a fast descent in the rain on one sportive and someone had a similar problem but they didn't get away so lightly. The rider broke a leg on the top of the wall and ended up in a crumpled heap in a field on the other side. Paramedics were just tending to him when I went past... 



dodgy said:


> Maybe a friendly mod can edit your username 😂😜





plastic_cylclist said:


> I was going to get that sorted, but thought "Och aye, looks funny, so lets leave it!"


I was going to suggest changing it too! My eyes keep getting drawn to the strange spelling...


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## si_c (28 Jun 2020)

If you've got some hex wrenches it's really easy to do yourself.

Loosen the bolts for the brake pad, and then pull the brake lever, move the pad into the right place and make sure it follows the brake track on the wheel. Tighten the bolt and make sure the pad isn't touching the tyre.

If you let go of the brake lever that side is now done. Repeat for the other side.

Should look something like the below, in my case the pad is about 2mm from the rim.


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## si_c (28 Jun 2020)

As a second point, those pads look a bit shot although it could be the camera angle.

If they don't touch the rim with a flat edge then replace them.


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## roubaixtuesday (28 Jun 2020)

si_c said:


> If you've got some hex wrenches it's really easy to do yourself.
> 
> Loosen the bolts for the brake pad, and then pull the brake lever, move the pad into the right place and make sure it follows the brake track on the wheel. Tighten the bolt and make sure the pad isn't touching the tyre.
> 
> ...



I think the OP has V brakes looking at their picture


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## si_c (28 Jun 2020)

roubaixtuesday said:


> I think the OP has V brakes looking at their picture


I know, but I was sat next to my bike, and took a couple of quick pictures to show the alignment of rim and pads. The end result should look the similar even if the calipers are different.


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## dodgy (28 Jun 2020)

Is that your bike in your avatar? You have v brakes but I’m not sure I’ve seen a drop bar bike with v brakes before. Is/was it a cyclo cross bike?


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## rogerzilla (28 Jun 2020)

If you really want to do it right, new pads should be fitted so they stay on the rim's brake track as they wear, since this affects the sweep of the arms (cosine error). Canti or V brake pads should be set as high as possible when new (towards the tyre). Centre-pull or side-pull pads should be set as low as possible (towards the spokes). Dual-pivots are set differently on each side: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/dual-pivot-brake-service

If the brake track is so narrow that the pad takes up the whole width, you can ignore the above.


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## berty bassett (28 Jun 2020)

could have been so much worse - next time you go down there you will either be smiling to yourself and thinking how lucky , or in a panic thinking how lucky you were -- is your glass half empty or half full  
as a matter of interest i would create a segment and see how fast others have took it - might have bagged a kom


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jun 2020)

si_c said:


> If you've got some hex wrenches it's really easy to do yourself.
> 
> Loosen the bolts for the brake pad, and then pull the brake lever, move the pad into the right place and make sure it follows the brake track on the wheel. Tighten the bolt and make sure the pad isn't touching the tyre.
> 
> ...



Is that quick release on the brake correct? Pretty sure it should be pointing down on left hand side when closed, when as looking at it in the photo. Then turn clockwise to open (move brake blocks away from rim) and drop the wheel out when fixing punctures etc.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

dodgy said:


> Is that your bike in your avatar? You have v brakes but I’m not sure I’ve seen a drop bar bike with v brakes before. Is/was it a cyclo cross bike?


Yes, its a Specialized Tri cross with 25mm tyres


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## gzoom (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Learn the harsh way. The fact is, having been slightly unsure in my mind, I should have done some pre-work on them and checked them thoroughly.



Just to reassure you once you get some properly set up brakes you shouldn't have any worries about smashing it down hill. I've got 10 year Shimano 105 callipers, but properly setup you can see they can scrub off speed absolutely fine, this was down a 4% gradient, barely a few seconds of reasonably hard braking and I was down to sub 20km/h.

Looking at your brake setup its lucky you didn't have to test them when facing some farm traffic coming up the hill!!


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## mjr (28 Jun 2020)

Brads said:


> As an aside, am I the only one who hates when self righteous types dive on a thread and take every detail to the N'th degree to make out that a poster is a liar, or a fraud, or is just simply wrong, but they are right and you better know it !


What's your proof of that, then?!? ;-)


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## mjr (28 Jun 2020)

berty bassett said:


> as a matter of interest i would create a segment and see how fast others have took it - might have bagged a kom


Make sure the segment continues right up to the wall and it'll be yours forever? Hopefully! :Crazy:


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## Brads (28 Jun 2020)

mjr said:


> What's your proof of that, then?!? ;-)


Proof of what ?


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## si_c (28 Jun 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Is that quick release on the brake correct? Pretty sure it should be pointing down on left hand side when closed, when as looking at it in the photo. Then turn clockwise to open (move brake blocks away from rim) and drop the wheel out when fixing punctures etc.


They are yes, they're Shimano R7010 calipers, it made me disconcerted at first too.


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## plastic_cyclist (28 Jun 2020)

Two more shots of the brake set up, opposite side on the front and rear drive side.


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## mjr (28 Jun 2020)

Brads said:


> Proof of what ?


If I have to explain the joke of making out that you're wrong, you won't find it funny.


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## wafter (28 Jun 2020)

DCBassman said:


> I will say this about dual-pivot caliper brakes. I've so far owned two sets, the no-names that were on the Scott when I got it, and a set of vintage 105s just recently installed. With drop-bar brifters, they were awful. Cleaned the rims REALLY well, slight improvement. Changed back to flat bars and appropriately-set levers. Huge improvement. Install Koolstop Salmons. Even bigger improvement. The 105s *might* have improved it a little more, but I doubt it. Basically, the new blocks on clean rims with decent levers mean I have stopping power that feels equivalent to the V-brakes on my mtb, and they are _good. _
> This, more than anything else, has decided me against ever returning to drops, because I doubt that any drop levers are hugely better than the ones I had (Sora).
> Whatever, the stopping power I now have has increased my confidence on the bike.


This might be down to just cable pull ratios which have changed on STIs over the years and as a result won't suit some calipers.. was there a bif mis-match in terms of caliper and shifter age?


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## HLaB (28 Jun 2020)

plastic_cylclist said:


> Two more shots of the brake set up, opposite side on the front and rear drive side.
> 
> View attachment 533064
> 
> ...


The rear looks better set up (at least the side we can see) it looks like the majority of the pad will make contact with the braking surface. The frontpad looks high at the rear and may bite the tyre.
Once pads are aligned to make contact with the braking surface (I use the 'toe out' method to stop squealing) you may need to balance them so that when they are pulled the pads on either side make contact with the braking surface at the same time. The little screw at the bottom of the brake pivot adjusts that. If one side touches first you may need to loosen its screw slightly and tighten slightly the one on the opposite side. If in doubt get a lbs to sort it. V brakes like you've got are very powerful when set up right, even in the wet, good luck


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## fossyant (28 Jun 2020)

You need to spend a little time getting those pads aligned properly. Its not hard. There will be a small grub screw that will adjust how close the pad sits if one is too close. 

Don't ride until you sort them out.


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## steve292 (29 Jun 2020)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMa9UqY9obk


The park tool guides are among the best. When I do it I always pull the lever hard and push the bike hard along the ground to check that the wheel will lock up for my peace of mind. The pads in your pics I would consider shot, and replace. It's not a hard DIY job, but there is no shame in going to a LBS either


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## DCBassman (29 Jun 2020)

wafter said:


> This might be down to just cable pull ratios which have changed on STIs over the years and as a result won't suit some calipers.. was there a bif mis-match in terms of caliper and shifter age?


No, these were the original spec for the bike. The flat bar shifters used now are fully STI-compatible.
I've used two different sets of those particular brifters and they did not match the calipers well.


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## Brads (29 Jun 2020)

mjr said:


> If I have to explain the joke of making out that you're wrong, you won't find it funny.




Hahaha oh ffs I just got it !!  what a fanny I am !


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## plastic_cyclist (29 Jun 2020)

Does anybody have a particular favourite retailer when purchasing new brakes and pads ?


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## Phaeton (29 Jun 2020)

plastic_cyclist said:


> Does anybody have a particular favourite retailer when purchasing new brakes and pads ?


Currently the one that has good stock levels, or easily visited


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## midlife (29 Jun 2020)

Just curious, why do you need new brakes?


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## Phaeton (29 Jun 2020)

midlife said:


> Just curious, why do you need new brakes?


🍿


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## CXRAndy (29 Jun 2020)

Very poor alignment of brake blocks. Could have cost you your life. Very lucky indeed. 

Inexperience coupled with disasterous bike mechanics.

If you're regularly riding in the wet, get a bike with hydraulic disc brakes


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## CXRAndy (29 Jun 2020)

berty bassett said:


> could have been so much worse - next time you go down there you will either be smiling to yourself and thinking how lucky , or in a panic thinking how lucky you were -- is your glass half empty or half full
> as a matter of interest i would create a segment and see how fast others have took it - might have bagged a kom


Don't listen to Berty, he and his tag team Tommy, are famed for crashing


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## vickster (29 Jun 2020)

plastic_cyclist said:


> Does anybody have a particular favourite retailer when purchasing new brakes and pads ?


Get your LBS to sort


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## vickster (29 Jun 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Very poor alignment of brake blocks. Could have cost you your life. Very lucky indeed.
> 
> Inexperience coupled with disasterous bike mechanics.
> 
> If you're regularly riding in the wet, get a bike with hydraulic disc brakes


Not everyone has money for a new road bike with hydraulic brakes (likely £1000+)


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## Phaeton (29 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Get your LBS to sort


That might be easier said than done, a works colleague has broken something on his bike, she was unsure what, but from her description it could have been the front derailleur bracket. His LBS has said they will do it, but he is 208 in line & they will ring him 4 days before they think they can get to it.


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## si_c (29 Jun 2020)

Brake pads are a relatively low cost item, you might only save a couple of ££s shopping online for brake pads, so feel free to get them from your local bike shop if available. If you're planning to replace them yourself then I've used these very successfully for MTBing and Mrs C uses them on her hybrid with no complaints. The red pads give better wet weather performance, oh and they're pretty cheap too.


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## CXRAndy (29 Jun 2020)

vickster said:


> Not everyone has money for a new road bike with hydraulic brakes (likely £1000+)


Depends whether he values his life more than a grand 

Plenty of nearly new once used


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## Globalti (29 Jun 2020)

Don't take it to a shop, learn to do it yourself.

Buy new pads all around. Remove the old ones, clean everything up and check everything moves freely. Fit the new pads loosely. Squeeze the lever enough to hold the pads gently, loosen the bolts and adjust their position so they're against the braking surfaces, square on. Then carefully tighten the bolts holding the pads to prevent them turning with the bolt. Test and repeat until you get both pads set absolutely square on to the braking surfaces. A properly-adjusted rim brake should actually make a crisp clack as it hits the rim when you squeeze the lever fast. Done this way your brakes will allow you to endo the bike with a good squeeze and some weight transfer.


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## Phaeton (29 Jun 2020)

Globalti said:


> Don't take it to a shop, learn to do it yourself.


Although I agree with you in principle that is something that is beyond some people, my wife's uncle used to pay an electrician to come in & change fuses in a plug, he would not know how to go about changing a car wheel.


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## vickster (29 Jun 2020)

CXRAndy said:


> Depends whether he values his life more than a grand
> 
> Plenty of nearly new once used


Not right now or at least not cheap!


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## plastic_cyclist (29 Jun 2020)

Well, the two LBS's around here have a 4 week lead-time on service and any workshop stuff. So, I have no choice to crack on myself.
Don't worry, I can change a plug and a car wheel - I've got this


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## Slick (29 Jun 2020)

plastic_cyclist said:


> Well, the two LBS's around here have a 4 week lead-time on service and any workshop stuff. So, I have no choice to crack on myself.
> Don't worry, I can change a plug and a car wheel - I've got this


I don't doubt that you have but get someone else to check it before hurtling down the next hill.


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## gzoom (8 Jul 2020)

To the OP, hope your brakes are working now, just don't try to take 90 degree turns in the wet at over 15mph, down hill, with slick tyres on. My brakes were working fine, but the tarmac is a surprisingly effective way to slow down  







I wouldn't recommend using tarmac as way of stopping on a regular basis tough, its not good for you or the bike!!


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## plastic_cyclist (11 Jul 2020)

Woah brother! I had hoped I was the only one who was a bit dozy on down hills - hope that doesn’t sting too much. I’ve not been on my bike since !


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## Grant Fondo (11 Jul 2020)

gzoom said:


> To the OP, hope your brakes are working now, just don't try to take 90 degree turns in the wet at over 15mph, down hill, with slick tyres on. My brakes were working fine, but the tarmac is a surprisingly effective way to slow down
> 
> View attachment 534802
> 
> ...


Thats some nasty looking scuffing! The arm doesn't look too bad though


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## Solocle (11 Jul 2020)

Grant Fondo said:


> Thats some nasty looking scuffing! The arm doesn't look too bad though


Last time I had an off was at 50 kph on the flat - the cleat broke! A lesson to me to check their wear...


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## Slick (11 Jul 2020)

Solocle said:


> Last time I had an off was at 50 kph on the flat - the cleat broke! A lesson to me to check their wear...
> View attachment 535326


I had to look twice to check exactly what part if the body that was.


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## Tripster (11 Jul 2020)

BoldonLad said:


> When I was learning to ride a motorcycle, instructor always told us, "look where you intend to go, not at the obstacle". She (Instructor) always said this was something to do with centre of gravity. I have no idea why, but, it did work.


Motogp, or any racer, demonstrate it very well


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## Johnno260 (11 Jul 2020)

gzoom said:


> To the OP, hope your brakes are working now, just don't try to take 90 degree turns in the wet at over 15mph, down hill, with slick tyres on. My brakes were working fine, but the tarmac is a surprisingly effective way to slow down
> 
> View attachment 534802
> 
> ...



ouch


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