# Winter touring on e-bike?



## FrothNinja (21 Nov 2021)

Anyone toured on an eBike in the winter. Still thinking of doing a c300 mile tour before the end of the year (Lancs to Scotland) and thinking of doing it on the hybid eBike but I have never toured it in the winter. When I ride it I usually get 70+ miles per charge and expect I will probably loose about ten miles per charge with the luggage. Will the cold cut into the range too?


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## gzoom (22 Nov 2021)

Short answer, yes. You will see a range drop of anything between 15-30%, it depends on how cold and road conditions. Bewarned the last 30% of charge can disappear very quickly if temperatures are around 0.


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## cougie uk (22 Nov 2021)

At leastif the battery does run out the extra effort will help keep you warm !


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## Brandane (22 Nov 2021)

Are you talking "real winter" here, i.e. wind, rain, snow, ice, sub zero temperatures? 
If so, I can't imagine it being any fun at all. I have a motorbike, so no worries about range. But winter touring in such conditions is something I would not be prepared to do. Icy roads make it dangerous, for a start.


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## CXRAndy (22 Nov 2021)

Yes, quite a lot. To help mitigate range loss have the charging finish just at the point of riding. This will precondition the battery cells. They will be warm and at max capacity. Another thing is make a velcro blanket around the battery on the bike to keep cold air reducing cell temperature. 

Charge the battery indoors over winter to keep them at room temperature


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

^^^ sage advice. You can lose 15-20% of electrically assisted capacity on cold weather, so be prepared to either carry a spare battery (which you will ideally need to somehow keep warm), stop more often for charging, or pedal a depeleted bike a lot more odten.


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## Pale Rider (22 Nov 2021)

I've not done tests, but on my Bosch bikes I've not noticed the large range reductions spoken of on here.

My journeys nearly always start with the bike at room temperature, which will help preserve range.


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## FrothNinja (22 Nov 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> velcro blanket around the battery


Oooo good idea


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## FrothNinja (22 Nov 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> Bosch


It is a bosch and I usually charge indoors as I don't want to lug an extension around


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## FrothNinja (22 Nov 2021)

Brandane said:


> "real winter"


As I said, before year end, so probably not. If I run into unforecast blizzards, high winds, etc, I'll bail out.


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## ebikeerwidnes (22 Nov 2021)

Last winter I noticed that I got less range
Basically I normally do 2 rides percharge but have a reasonable amount left when I charge - but last winter I would only just get 2 rides - i.e. about 45-50 miles
It did have the advantage of encouraging me to change my 'normal' riding mode to Eco rather than Tour - I am awaiting the result of the same rides this winter
Bosch system by the way - always charged indoors but no coat for it when riding


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> I've not done tests, but on my Bosch bikes I've not noticed the large range reductions spoken of on here.
> 
> My journeys nearly always start with the bike at room temperature, which will help preserve range.


Samsung cells here. I always start with a battery thats been kept and charged indoors, and the range drop noticeable. The brand of the controller, motor, etc, doesn't really factor into temperature slowing the checmical reactuons that lead to the movement of electroms inside the battery.


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## cougie uk (22 Nov 2021)

FrothNinja said:


> As I said, before year end, so probably not. If I run into unforecast blizzards, high winds, etc, I'll bail out.


If you can get a good forecast it'll be brilliant. Was great out yesterday in the North West but woken to frost today and I'd not be up for an early start on days like this.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Nov 2021)

Range is not just the battery, you’ll be wearing more and flappier clothing and that’ll, reduce range due to poorer aero dynamics. Same with panniers.


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## Blue Hills (22 Nov 2021)

Thinking aloud, and I stress that I didn't do much better in reality than scrape O level physics, but would there be a case for some switchable mild heating (paired with removable insulation) for the battery, powered by the battery but taking less power than was gained by the battery being warmer?
I do know that batteries in general suffer from the cold - important issue for ebikes.
Also, another very possibly ignorant question - won't this cold weather issue shorten the life of the battery? Maybe substantially? ie the more charge that is lost to nowt the more the batteries will have to be recharged - and they do of course have a limited number of effective charge cycles.
Seems to me all of this could be a rather significant issue for folks in more northerly parts.


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## Drago (22 Nov 2021)

Thata how e cars do it.


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## carpiste (22 Nov 2021)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/winter-proofing-diy.279587/
Some diy ideas here


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## gzoom (23 Nov 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Also, another very possibly ignorant question - won't this cold weather issue shorten the life of the battery? Maybe substantially? ie the more charge that is lost to nowt the more the batteries will have to be recharged - and they do of course have a limited number of effective charge cycles.



I wouldn't worry about battery life, after 54 cycles (roughly 2500 miles on this battery) the battery degradation on my eBike is reporting at just 2%. I now have a second battery for the bike as well, so I suspect I'll never need to buy another battery for this bike due to degradation for next 5 years.

The temperature is interesting, even though it was well into single digit temperatures today by the end of my commute the motor was reporting a temperature of 22degrees, however I used 50% SOC to cover 8 miles!!! Some of that is due to some *modifications* I have done to the bike, but its roughly 40% more consumption than even just a few weeks ago. So ambient temperature does have a big impact on energy consumption.


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

gzoom said:


> I wouldn't worry about battery life, after 54 cycles (roughly 2500 miles on this battery) the battery degradation on my eBike is reporting at just 2%. I now have a second battery for the bike as well, so I suspect I'll never need to buy another battery for this bike due to degradation for next 5 years.
> 
> The temperature is interesting, even though it was well into single digit temperatures today by the end of my commute the motor was reporting a temperature of 22degrees, however I used 50% SOC to cover 8 miles!!! Some of that is due to some *modifications* I have done to the bike, but its roughly 40% more consumption than even just a few weeks ago. So ambient temperature does have a big impact on energy consumption.
> 
> View attachment 618997


Do you precondition the battery, eg finish charge literally before riding? Its the simplest way of heating the cells. once riding the motor drawing current also keeps the battery warm. Last thing is reducing external wind chill temperatures chilling the battery, thermal blanket. Neoprene with a reflective/thermal wind barrier. 

I did a ride in 7C windy conditions, started riding upon finish charge and got a decent mileage from the battery, no worse than mid summer. It could have been my riding pace that day, but I was pleased that no noticeable range loss.


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## gzoom (23 Nov 2021)

@CXRAndy I don't preheat the battery, though the bike is stored in doors but the room isn't heated. Am not too fussed about range now that I have a charger at work and a spare battery I can swap into for longer trips.

Just as with EVs in general, as long as the range does what I want/need and can charge at my destination its a none issue. Remember to charge all the lights/heated gloves etc is more hassle .


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## KnittyNorah (23 Nov 2021)

I think evaporative cooling is likely to have a serious additional effect on the battery's performance during much of the year here in the UK, and the use of a waterproof and windproof 'coat' outside an insulating cover will probably be more beneficial than one might imagine.


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## CXRAndy (23 Nov 2021)

I've noticed our Nissan Leaf's performance range wise is slightly better if we drive immediately a charge has finished. If we drive a few hours later the range is less for same percentage of charge. I suppose its the same with Tesla, but they are more informative, by reducing regen braking until the battery has warmed up. The Nissan, do it too, just don't inform me of it, but I can feel the lack of regen when we have cold battery.


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## HobbesOnTour (23 Nov 2021)

Apart from battery issues there will be daylight issues. Advisable to pack a set of battery/rechargeable lights for a worst case scenario.


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## FrothNinja (23 Nov 2021)

HobbesOnTour said:


> Apart from battery issues there will be daylight issues. Advisable to pack a set of battery/rechargeable lights for a worst case scenario.


There are 'built in' lights on the bike though I never use them. I use the lights that I use on my treaders, and wear lots of reflective kit...and pray the drivers don't want to kill a cyclist


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## gzoom (24 Nov 2021)

I have this lot to charge when I get to work after taking the bike into work. Its pretty dark by 5pm these days, so unless you want to be road kill you cannot have enough lights.....I may get another helmet light this xmas, I worry the one I have now isn't bright enough to get noticed when am starting at cars waiting to pull out of junctions .


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## Drago (24 Nov 2021)

Work harder, save more, retire early, and you'll be much safer during the dark winter evenings.


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## FrothNinja (4 Dec 2021)

The weather has not been amenable so far though I have devised an insulating sleeve or two, both held in place by velcro straps.
1 - a piece of neoprene pond liner wrapped around the front tube
2 - as 1 but with closed cell foam sheet under the neoprene
The neoprene will also serve as a cover for the battery cavity while the battery lives in the house over winter.
Sensible??


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## CXRAndy (4 Dec 2021)

FrothNinja said:


> The weather has not been amenable so far though I have devised an insulating sleeve or two, both held in place by velcro straps.
> 1 - a piece of neoprene pond liner wrapped around the front tube
> 2 - as 1 but with closed cell foam sheet under the neoprene
> The neoprene will also serve as a cover for the battery cavity while the battery lives in the house over winter.
> Sensible??


Spot on. 

Nothing really more can be done for when riding


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