# am i too old to start racing/ trying to be a pro



## jamma (3 Apr 2016)

As the title of this thread says am i too old to start racing/ becoming semi pro?

I am 22 years old but always wondered that i have left it too late to start to race or attempt it. 

Even if i am i do have other adventures waiting like opening up my own bike servicing shop.


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## Dec66 (3 Apr 2016)

Yes. 

I am joking, of course. Do you do any competitive events now, and if so, what sort of results are you getting?


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## dan_bo (3 Apr 2016)

Nah go for it.


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## PeteXXX (3 Apr 2016)

Oh, do behave... you're barely out of nappies!!


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## jamma (3 Apr 2016)

Dec66 said:


> Yes.
> 
> I am joking, of course. Do you do any competitive events now, and if so, what sort of results are you getting?



Simple answer is none just always thought i was too old


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## fossyant (3 Apr 2016)

Racing is for everyone. Pro, well you need to be in that 0.001% that can do it. It's a farkin hard life.


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## Dec66 (3 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Simple answer is none just always thought i was too old


Well, all I can suggest, if you're getting in the lift on the ground floor, is to get a racing licence and give it a stab.

You'll find out pretty quickly if you're not good enough. And if you are good enough, the pro teams will come and find you, eventually.

I'm way too old to entertain such fanciful notions, though I still harbour fantasies about playing for Everton.


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## Cuchilo (3 Apr 2016)

I started at 41 !


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## Diggs (3 Apr 2016)

OK different sex, different nationality and probably diffrenet circumstances (although you might be a journo) but Marijn de Vries took up racing when she was 30


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## ColinJ (3 Apr 2016)

Ludo Dierckxsens was 29 when he turned pro.


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## Gravity Aided (4 Apr 2016)

Hey, you may not crack the pro circuit, but you'll have fun trying.


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## screenman (4 Apr 2016)

What club do you ride with now?


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## OskarTennisChampion (4 Apr 2016)

You're basically knackered and over the hill by the age of 21,so sorry,I think you've just missed out.










Kidding of course,21 is probably a good time to start,if you put in the massive effort required.
And it will need single minded desire,as it's a hard game.


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## Levo-Lon (4 Apr 2016)

I think time and money will be the decider....


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## steveindenmark (4 Apr 2016)

Ive just seen the film Eddie the Eagle.

Anything is possible. Go for it.


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> What club do you ride with now?


Stockto wheelers


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## DCLane (4 Apr 2016)

@jamma - start with some of the 4th cat races near you, providing you've done the training (group rides, chain gang, etc).

Then you'll find out


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## Dirk (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> I have just done my first 11 mile time trail today average speed was 13.5mph time was 50 mins 30 secs.
> hopefully when i keep doing these i will get a faster average speed and time


I think you have an awful lot of hard work ahead of you, if you want to become pro.
I'm 40 years older than you. My best average on the local cycle clubs training route is 16.8 mph. That's over a 20 mile course with 1200 feet of climbing.
Alex Dowsett is half as fast again, than me, over the same course - and he wasn't racing!


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## HarryTheDog (4 Apr 2016)

I know someone who tried/ is trying to do what you are thinking of. He had the advantage of working in the fitness industry ( personal trainer) . He joined my Club which by coincidence is the same club Alex Dowsett and Connor Dunne were in as Juniors. In his first year he went from 4th Cat to 1st Cat and in his 2nd year got picked up by a National standard team. He has raced in the National champs road race and still has visions of making a Continental team. He is really training nearly full time though and has access to coaches and some of the best advice. So pick your club carefully and get some pro coaching, spend your money on coaching and power meters, not the bike, it makes a difference. If you get picked up by a half decent team after your first year the bike should be free anyway.


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## Accy cyclist (4 Apr 2016)

Don't do it! Think of all those miles you'll clock up where you only see the tarmac when you could be taking in the scenery at a leisurely but challenging pace.



Think about all those broken bones and the strict diet regime as well!
 + =


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## Ian H (4 Apr 2016)

Just get yourself a racing licence and have a go. Once you've done a couple you can think about equipment and how you progress.


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## Joshua Plumtree (4 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> I started at 41 !



I started at 53 and still harbour visions of me out sprinting Peter Sagan up a hilly finish.


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## zizou (4 Apr 2016)

You are definitely not too old to start racing - i know guys who were 50+ when they started.

To be a pro though? I suggest setting your sights lower and just start racing.

I dont like being unkind but if you are doing a TT and taking 50 minutes for 11 miles then you are not going to survive the neutralised zone in a race. Unless of course your TT was a hill climb up a mountain then it is more impressive. Even at the lowest level of racing in the UK (4th cat) to be competitive takes a lot of training. And 4th cat is miles off elite category racers, most of whom aren't even pro's. However i dont want to sound too negative, hard work will get you places in cycling and racing can be an exciting and rewarding experience whatever level it is at.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (4 Apr 2016)

If you have to ask, you've a very tough road ahead


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## LewisLondon (4 Apr 2016)

zizou said:


> You are definitely not too old to start racing - i know guys who were 50+ when they started.
> 
> To be a pro though? I suggest setting your sights lower and just start racing.
> 
> I dont like being unkind but if you are doing a TT and taking 50 minutes for 11 miles then you are not going to survive the neutralised zone in a race. Unless of course your TT was a hill climb up a mountain then it is more impressive. Even at the lowest level of racing in the UK (4th cat) to be competitive takes a lot of training. And 4th cat is miles off elite category racers, most of whom aren't even pro's. However i dont want to sound too negative, hard work will get you places in cycling and racing can be an exciting and rewarding experience whatever level it is at.



Really interested as a one day pipe dream, what sort of standard is Cat4?


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## winjim (4 Apr 2016)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> If you have to ask, you've a very tough road ahead


I think the thing that makes elite sportspeople stand out is their competitive nature. They don't ask what's possible, they just go out and do it, whatever it takes. How motivated is the OP?


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## Ian H (4 Apr 2016)

Cat 4 encompasses everyone from occasional racers to beginners who get shot out of the back of the peloton as soon as the pace goes up. The latter either persevere and improve, or give up.


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> I think the thing that makes elite sportspeople stand out is their competitive nature. They don't ask what's possible, they just go out and do it, whatever it takes. How motivated is the OP?



Very motivated out on the bike every chance i get even if its raining.


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## Ian H (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Very motivated out on the bike every chance i get even if its raining.



On club runs?


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## MontyVeda (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> As the title of this thread says am i too old to start racing/ becoming semi pro?
> 
> I am 22 years old but always wondered that i have left it too late to start to race or attempt it.
> 
> Even if i am i do have other adventures waiting like opening up my own bike servicing shop.


What age did @blazed start racing... he's over 22 and there's no stopping him.


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## winjim (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Very motivated out on the bike every chance i get even if its raining.


Every chance you get, but what stops you the rest of the time?


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> Every chance you get, but what stops you the rest of the time?


Work but there getting used to me request time off for training


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

Ian H said:


> On club runs?


Yes even on club runs


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## 2IT (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> As the title of this thread says am i too old to start racing/ becoming semi pro?
> 
> I am 22 years old but always wondered that i have left it too late to start to race or attempt it.
> 
> Even if i am i do have other adventures waiting like opening up my own bike servicing shop.



Well good for you; yet, you will need many mini goals along the way. Here are some examples.

Don't get dropped on group rides. Be at the front working more than your share. Learn to hold the wheels of even the strongest riders. Learn to corner, handle a bike, etc under the worst conditions. Get good going up hills.

Better be able to go at least 20mph for an hour in a time trial.

If racing Cat 4 can you avoid the crashes and other beginners? In the US, we have a Cat 5 which you quickly want to get out of due the wide range of bike handling ability.

Can you stand getting dropped in a race? Again how is your bike handling, nerve and ability to hold a wheel in tight spots. Do you like sudden accelerations out of a corner?

Racing may never get easy for you. There might be times when your level of fitness is above the rest; yet, that means one still has to put out hard work to win or place.

A pro in my town said that even coming back from an injury as a pro and rejoining the peloton was like suddenly going from side streets to the interstate or motorways.

Racing is a romantic fancy. Rather than spending time falling in love with something or someone else, give it a try. I did.

PS the competition for a money making bicycle shop maybe as fierce as racing with even more risk and financial investment. There are three shops in my little town. Do you have experience working in a shop?


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## LewisLondon (4 Apr 2016)

Ian H said:


> Cat 4 encompasses everyone from occasional racers to beginners who get shot out of the back of the peloton as soon as the pace goes up. The latter either persevere and improve, or give up.



Ha! I am probably the latter of that, just don't fancy getting spat out the back within 30 seconds by turning up well below the level needed!


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## winjim (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Work but there getting used to me request time off for training


That's a relief, I was worried you were going to say family commitments .


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> That's a relief, I was worried you were going to say family commitments .



Nah i wouldn't start a sport i now enjoy if i had family commitments as there would be no time to train or race


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## Sittingduck (4 Apr 2016)

LewisLondon said:


> Ha! I am probably the latter of that, just don't fancy getting spat out the back within 30 seconds by turning up well below the level needed!



It's going to depend on the route and the type of rider you are. Haven't done much in the past 2 years but I was shocked at the first 4th Cat race I tried. You will likely need to be able to avg 21-25 mph for the entire duration. If you only ride solo at the moment go and do laps of Richmond Park and time it. If you can do sub 20 mins laps then you'll be fine. If you're doing 25 mins laps then you may struggle a bit. If you're a club member you would want to be able to at least go out with the training group and hold on, for a while at least! Edit to include that I would strongly suggest being a competent rider in a group before bunch racing... ideally join a club and get confident and able to ride safely before racing, just my opinion though.


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## LewisLondon (4 Apr 2016)

Sittingduck said:


> It's going to depend on the route and the type of rider you are. Haven't done much in the past 2 years but I was shocked at the first 4th Cat race I tried. You will likely need to be able to avg 21-25 mph for the entire duration. If you only ride solo at the moment go and do laps of Richmond Park and time it. If you can do sub 20 mins laps then you'll be fine. If you're doing 25 mins laps then you may struggle a bit. If you're a club member you would want to be able to at least go out with the training group and hold on, for a while at least! Edit to include that I would strongly suggest being a competent rider in a group before bunch racing... ideally join a club and get confident and able to ride safely before racing, just my opinion though.



Thanks mucho for that SD! 25 min laps at the moment sounds about right, lovely to have a comparison for RP that I can use to monitor myself! Long way off 20 min laps, but can only get better. Went out with Dynamos this weekend just gone, and realised how far off I am, but still had no idea of Cat4 times! Was fun to ride in a group for once though (even if the times of the laps is a bit misleading afterwards!)


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## Sittingduck (4 Apr 2016)

No probs, the weather plays a diff and you will be automatically faster in warmer months. Seeing times at the mo about 1 -2 min slower than summer for a similar level of effort, so low 20's probably good enough! Seeing if you can stay with the Dynamo faster groups should be a good indicator.


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## LewisLondon (4 Apr 2016)

Sittingduck said:


> No probs, the weather plays a diff and you will be automatically faster in warmer months. Seeing times at the mo about 1 -2 min slower than summer for a similar level of effort, so low 20's probably good enough! Seeing if you can stay with the Dynamo faster groups should be a good indicator.



First step = seeing if I can stay with the slower groups. First things first!


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## 123456789 (4 Apr 2016)

1st start here: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/race

2nd have a look here and pick one: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events?keywords=&view=off&distance=&postcode=&fromdate=04/04/2016&todate=04/04/2017&race_duration_min=&race_duration_max=&resultsperpage=30&series_only=0&online_entry_only=0&zuv_bc_event_filter_id[]=21&zuv_bc_event_filter_item_id[]=25&zuv_bc_licence_discipline_id[]=50

You'll soon have your question answered. Good luck

EDIT: I see you are a member of a club your first step would be speak to them and find out what they do, do they run or promote any events, do they time trial, have a chain gang etc etc


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## screenman (4 Apr 2016)

LewisLondon said:


> Really interested as a one day pipe dream, what sort of standard is Cat4?



I would imagine most would not have a problem averaging 25mph for whatever distance the race is, Cat4 is often very jumpy so expect speeds of 30 to 35 plus at times.


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## 123456789 (4 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> I would imagine most would not have a problem averaging 25mph for whatever distance the race is, Cat4 is often very jumpy so expect speeds of 30 to 35 plus at times.



Second that the jump from hanging on in Club Runs into racing even Cat 4 is massive. I TT and do not race except I did my clubs novice road race one year. I had a speedo but didn't log anything and every time I looked down it was showing 27-28 mph. I think I came 4th or 5th


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## Gravity Aided (4 Apr 2016)

Look, if you really have the Cycling bug,you might explore your options. But getting to 25 to 30 miles per hour is going to be a long and difficult road. For anyone. Get a good evaluation of your chances, from someone you respect.


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## ayceejay (4 Apr 2016)

I don't know what kind of racing you have in mind but a pro stage race can have riders in the saddle for 6 hours and more and they come in with an AVERAGE of 30 plus. I suggest you train to be on the bike for a few hours as a first step.


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## vickster (4 Apr 2016)

MontyVeda said:


> What age did @blazed start racing... he's over 22 and there's no stopping him.


Is he...really...I thought he was about 13?! 
Or did you mean 22 stone?


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## vickster (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Nah i wouldn't start a sport i now enjoy if i had family commitments as there would be no time to train or race


Will you be able to replace your expensive new carbon frame if it gets trashed in a crash in a race? I would think it should be a serious consideration. What is your current bike?

Which club group do you ride with? I would think you need to be in the quick group already with your ambitions


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## huwsparky (4 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4223482, member: 76"]jamma said: ↑
I have just done my first 11 mile time trail today average speed was 13.5mph time was 50 mins 30 secs.
hopefully when i keep doing these i will get a faster average speed and time

I have just seen this. To be brutally honest, at 21/22 if this is your best then I would spend some time writing a business plan for your upcoming bike shop venture. You are simply not going to be good enough to be a pro.

It's just how it is.[/QUOTE]
+1

Enjoy your cycling and forget about pro aspirations. Just not going to happen. At that avarage there's no point even trying as a 4th cat either. 

I think you need to be able to ride at 20mph at least solo to start racing, 23+mph in a bunch.


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## bikingdad90 (4 Apr 2016)

Do you know Paul Curran of Paul Curran Cycle Sport (used to be Blackhawk cycles) in Stockton. He is an ex Pro and now bike shop owner. 

If I remember rightly he lives local and sometimes runs chain gangs with his mates, maybe ask if you can join him on a ride?


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## huwsparky (4 Apr 2016)

chris harte said:


> Do you know Paul Curran of Paul Curran Cycle Sport (used to be Blackhawk cycles) in Stockton. He is an ex Pro and now bike shop owner.
> 
> If I remember rightly he lives local and sometimes runs chain gangs with his mates, maybe ask if you can join him on a ride?


But 13.5mph in a 11mile TT??? Just find a club that can cater for his ability and enjoy cycling for what it is. No point the OP joining a chain gang with an ex pro...


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## vickster (4 Apr 2016)

What speeds is the OP managing routinely on club runs? Might be a better indicator than his first TT


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## speccy1 (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> As the title of this thread says am i too old to start racing/ becoming semi pro?
> 
> I am 22 years old but always wondered that i have left it too late to start to race or attempt it.
> 
> Even if i am i do have other adventures waiting like opening up my own bike servicing shop.


Are you for real?? Go for it


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

chris harte said:


> Do you know Paul Curran of Paul Curran Cycle Sport (used to be Blackhawk cycles) in Stockton. He is an ex Pro and now bike shop owner.
> 
> If I remember rightly he lives local and sometimes runs chain gangs with his mates, maybe ask if you can join him on a ride?



Yes know the shop and easy to get to due to being local


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## vickster (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Yes know the shop and easy to get to due to being local


Maybe go chat to him about what bike he would suggest for you..assuming he's not the one selling the Cervelo?


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

vickster said:


> Maybe go chat to him about what bike he would suggest for you..assuming he's not the one selling the Cervelo?


No he usally deals with planet x


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## vickster (4 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> No he usally deals with planet x


They make good bikes too


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## bikingdad90 (4 Apr 2016)

He could join Cleveland Wheelers which is a bit more relaxed or stick with Stockton Wheelers which is a bit more race orientated. 

I would like to join Cleveland Wheelers but family commitments limit my free time.


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## screenman (4 Apr 2016)

chris harte said:


> He could join Cleveland Wheelers which is a bit more relaxed or stick with Stockton Wheelers which is a bit more race orientated.
> 
> I would like to join Cleveland Wheelers but family commitments limit my free time.



I belong to a club and have done so for the last 46 years, sometimes I only meet up once a year so lack of time is no excuse, go for it, that way by the time you have time on your hands you will be a long term member.


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## Dirk (4 Apr 2016)

chris harte said:


> He could join Cleveland Wheelers which is a bit more relaxed or stick with Stockton Wheelers which is a bit more race orientated.


I think he would be better off opening a shop........


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## jamma (4 Apr 2016)

2IT said:


> Well good for you; yet, you will need many mini goals along the way. Here are some examples.
> 
> Don't get dropped on group rides. Be at the front working more than your share. Learn to hold the wheels of even the strongest riders. Learn to corner, handle a bike, etc under the worst conditions. Get good going up hills.
> 
> ...



I work in a supermarket but really would like to get out of it but it pays for everything so can't really complain.


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## Gravity Aided (4 Apr 2016)

What kind of supermarket work do you do? Retail can be mighty hard on the feet and legs. I ran photographic labs and stores for a long time, so I can see your wish to exit retail. But I also think pro cycling may be hard to attain as a career, even harder to maintain as a career.


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## CaadX (5 Apr 2016)

Perhaps sitting Duck would like to tell you what he lapped Richmond park at when he first started (it was not that long ago ) and what he laps it at when he's fully fit.. If you put in the work and have the application and talent anything is possible.


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## 2IT (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> I work in a supermarket but really would like to get out of it but it pays for everything so can't really complain.



Keep working in the supermarket. You probably get good deals on the food - an important step. Had a cousin who went from produce to top management to playing golf with Bob Hope in retirement. Follow your cycling interest and it could turn into career advancement outside of cycling freeing you up to ride more.

I got the cycling bug in my early teens and dreamed of bike racing. Worked in the LBS, grandparents' restaurant, father's farm. In college, raced and became a teacher so I could teach and ride more than most.

Keep working and work cycling into your life. It's not like anyone has the ability to suddenly train four to six hours a day so build over time. Enjoy the people you meet while cycling and working because that will magnify the talent you have.


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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

Gravity Aided said:


> What kind of supermarket work do you do? Retail can be mighty hard on the feet and legs. I ran photographic labs and stores for a long time, so I can see your wish to exit retail. But I also think pro cycling may be hard to attain as a career, even harder to maintain as a career.



Its counter work so in my feet/legs for a couple of hours at a time


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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

2IT said:


> Keep working in the supermarket. You probably get good deals on the food - an important step. Had a cousin who went from produce to top management to playing golf with Bob Hope in retirement. Follow your cycling interest and it could turn into career advancement outside of cycling freeing you up to ride more.
> 
> I got the cycling bug in my early teens and dreamed of bike racing. Worked in the LBS, grandparents' restaurant, father's farm. In college, raced and became a teacher so I could teach and ride more than most.
> 
> Keep working and work cycling into your life. It's not like anyone has the ability to suddenly train four to six hours a day so build over time. Enjoy the people you meet while cycling and working because that will magnify the talent you have.



Will do and your having a laugh about good deals on food only get staff discount but still better than anything


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## vickster (5 Apr 2016)

Maybe a job in a bike shop would suit your ambitions better? Get trained as a mechanic


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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

vickster said:


> Maybe a job in a bike shop would suit your ambitions better? Get trained as a mechanic



Might do but while i am young might aswell try and do it as having a shop can be a later oppurtunity


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## Sittingduck (5 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> Perhaps sitting Duck would like to tell you what he lapped Richmond park at when he first started (it was not that long ago ) and what he laps it at when he's fully fit.. If you put in the work and have the application and talent anything is possible.



I don't know what time for a lap when I first started but guessing something like 30 mins, quite possibly more. Fastest Anti-CW lap is 18:25 but that's a year ago. Currently clocking about 20-21 mins, depending on wind. Takes a lot of time to get fit, fast and stay that way imho. Weight plays a big part too...


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## Gravity Aided (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Its counter work so in my feet/legs for a couple of hours at a time


Cycling will help with this sort of standing at work situation, I found. My legs felt a lot better after starting cycling again. When I first resumed cycling, I was standing for eight hours a day, and already had varicose veins from working in retail for about 20 years. So you probably need the health benefits of cycling over and above any aspirations you may have, but it's great to have aspirations. What do you know about business and accounting and transport and marketing? Keep your eyes open for examples in the market. You have to sell yourself, over and above your merchandise. You have to convince suppliers, the bank, and potential customers that you have what it takes to make good on their investment. I had a friend from high school buy an existing small bike shop, and turn it into a large bike shop. He stocked brands others did not have, and also picked up Raleigh when their dealer in this town went away. Where I grew up is 40 miles from here, yet people from here go from this town, with its three bike shops, over to him, if they want a Raleigh. So think about a marketing niche you can fill. Money will always be a worry, but if you do what you love to do, you'll never work a day in your life.


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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

Gravity Aided said:


> Cycling will help with this sort of standing at work situation, I found. My legs felt a lot better after starting cycling again. When I first resumed cycling, I was standing for eight hours a day, and already had varicose veins from working in retail for about 20 years. So you probably need the health benefits of cycling over and above any aspirations you may have, but it's great to have aspirations. What do you know about business and accounting and transport and marketing? Keep your eyes open for examples in the market. You have to sell yourself, over and above your merchandise. You have to convince suppliers, the bank, and potential customers that you have what it takes to make good on their investment. I had a friend from high school buy an existing small bike shop, and turn it into a large bike shop. He stocked brands others did not have, and also picked up Raleigh when their dealer in this town went away. Where I grew up is 40 miles from here, yet people from here go from this town, with its three bike shops, over to him, if they want a Raleigh. So think about a marketing niche you can fill. Money will always be a worry, but if you do what you love to do, you'll never work a day in your life.



The only real competition is another shop about 2-3 miles away which is a merida stockist then you have to go further away to get cervelos and specialized


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## e-rider (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> As the title of this thread says am i too old to start racing/ becoming semi pro?
> 
> I am 22 years old but always wondered that i have left it too late to start to race or attempt it.
> 
> Even if i am i do have other adventures waiting like opening up my own bike servicing shop.


Greg van Avermaet was 19 when he started. However, as you know becoming a (semi)pro isn't about training hard - it's about being born with the correct genes, and training hard - do you have the genes? British Cycling can test you.


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## Gravity Aided (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> The only real competition is another shop about 2-3 miles away which is a merida stockist then you have to go further away to get cervelos and specialized


So what dealership would be open in your area? What investment do they require re store appearance and floor plan?


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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

Gravity Aided said:


> So what dealership would be open in your area? What investment do they require re store appearance and floor plan?



Haven't had a look at that to be honest think i go and try racing and fall back on it if need be


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## winjim (5 Apr 2016)




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## jamma (5 Apr 2016)

Would a bronze BC race licence be enough to ztart or should i buy silver and purchase a full race licence after ?


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## vickster (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Would a bronze BC race licence be enough to ztart or should i buy silver and purchase a full race licence after ?


@Cuchilo might know?


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## OskarTennisChampion (5 Apr 2016)

Are you the fellow that can't decide between the £3.5 K Giant and the Cervelo ?
I admire your decision to start at near the top if you are


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## huwsparky (5 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Haven't had a look at that to be honest think i go and try racing and fall back on it if need be


Good plan, get them miles in dude.


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## OskarTennisChampion (5 Apr 2016)

huwsparky said:


> Good plan, get them miles in dude.



500 miles a week is a good starting point,average speed 25 MPH


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## DCLane (6 Apr 2016)

@jamma - I'd suggest start with a provisional licence and try your first 4th cat race. If you're anywhere near the first 10 then you'll know you're quick enough.

Alternatively if you're out the back before the end of the first lap then you'll know you're not quick enough and/or there's a lot of work to do.


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## smutchin (6 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> I think the thing that makes elite sportspeople stand out is their competitive nature. They don't ask what's possible, they just go out and do it, whatever it takes. How motivated is the OP?



I interviewed Taylor Phinney a few months ago. I was asking him questions about his recovery from injury and particular races he'd won, and soon realised from his answers that we might as well have been speaking different languages. It's almost impossible to relate the experience of the amateur cycling enthusiast to that of the pro. You have to be of a very particular mindset to be a professional sportsman. Plus as has been mentioned, you need the right genetics - and Taylor Phinney has about the best genes possible to be a bike racer. 

OK, so you could still be a competent professional cyclist without being anywhere near his level but if you're 22 and need to ask the question... nah, you haven't got a chance. 

I occasionally ride with a few guys who have reached Elite level, one even spent a couple of seasons riding in Belgium as a pro, but they gave up before getting very far. They can still make mincemeat of the likes of me, and make it look very easy, but even they don't have what it takes to succeed at that level.


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## screenman (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Would a bronze BC race licence be enough to ztart or should i buy silver and purchase a full race licence after ?



Have you been in your club long?


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## CaadX (6 Apr 2016)

Don't let any of this put you off have a go ! You can get to elite with talent and hard work, to get to pro ? Now that's a whole different kettle of fish.


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## Cuchilo (6 Apr 2016)

vickster said:


> @Cuchilo might know?


Silver gives you a provisional race licence with the option to upgrade to a full one .


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Are you the fellow that can't decide between the £3.5 K Giant and the Cervelo ?
> I admire your decision to start at near the top if you are



Yes i am but probably going with the cervelo


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Silver gives you a provisional race licence with the option to upgrade to a full one .



Thanks @Cuchilo


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> Have you been in your club long?



6 months to a year just have a fan membership which the club said was okay


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## screenman (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> 6 months to a year just have a fan membership which the club said was okay



Are you doing a time trial this week? if not why not as that would be an easy starting point.


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> Are you doing a time trial this week? if not why not as that would be an easy starting point.



I am going to do my own time trial friday night but theres no club time trial till the 28th april


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## DCLane (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> I am going to do my own time trial friday night but theres no club time trial till the 28th april



Then look at CTT for time trials near you; e.g. I'm doing a 10 on Saturday.

Also pick up local races, particularly given there's a circuit nearby.


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## mattobrien (6 Apr 2016)

I am now tempted to start my own thread entitled 'Too old to try to be a pro' as sadly at 38, I suspect that ship has sailed. 

That's not stopping me getting quicker and harbouring ambitions of doing a couple of TT's this year. 

I would class myself as a competent cyclist, but understand that I have a long, long way to go before getting to a level where I would do anything other than embarrass myself if I pinned on a number.

We have embarked on weekly chain gang rides, which I am hoping will start to see me improve my fitness and speed little. Last night we managed to average 22.9mph over 39 miles with four of us doing 2 minute turns, although I am still waiting for my lungs to cross the end line. Looking forward to see how we get on next week...


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## Cuchilo (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> I am going to do my own time trial friday night but theres no club time trial till the 28th april


Enter someone elses then 

https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/events/find


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## Dec66 (6 Apr 2016)

I fancy doing a spot of time trialling, but not to the extent of buying a TT bike. I'd hardly use it.

When I did the London-Surrey 100 last year, I averaged a shade over 20mph for the first 40 miles, and a little under for the next 60. That's on a B'Twin Triban 500SE, with nobody helping me out, riding well within myself as I didn't know how much the ride would take out of me.

I'm pretty confident that on a 10-mile flattish TT in good weather, I could do 25-27mph if I emptied the tank.

I'm 49, and I really don't make any claims to be a great cyclist, or even a particularly good one. If there were an SI Unit for being bog-average at everything, it'd be called the "Dec66".

I think the OP has a bit of a way to go to get to semi pro status... But I'm not going to discourage him. If you don't buy a ticket, you don't win the raffle.


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## OskarTennisChampion (6 Apr 2016)

mattobrien said:


> I am now tempted to start my own thread entitled 'Too old to try to be a pro' as sadly at 38, I suspect that ship has sailed.
> 
> That's not stopping me getting quicker and harbouring ambitions of doing a couple of TT's this year.
> 
> ...



Nearly 23 mph over that distance is not too shabby btw.
Same goes for @Dec66


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## vickster (6 Apr 2016)

@Dec66 Aren't TTs mostly run on open roads though? Unlike RLS 100...and without the aid of other cyclists


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## Ian H (6 Apr 2016)

Club TTs are where you learn. In ours, everyone turns up, whether on road bikes, TT bikes, skinsuits, baggy shorts, whatever. The slowest are cheered to the finish.


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## Dec66 (6 Apr 2016)

vickster said:


> @Dec66 Aren't TTs mostly run on open roads though? Unlike RLS 100...and without the aid of other cyclists


Well, there is that. I could always hang onto an Audi 

EDIT: and, as I said, no-one helped me on the 100... Very much a lone wolf (I spent a lot of the first 20 miles with waves of club cyclists flying past)


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## DCLane (6 Apr 2016)

Ian H said:


> Club TTs are where you learn. In ours, everyone turns up, whether on road bikes, TT bikes, skinsuits, bagy shorts, whatever. The slowest are cheered to the finish.



True. My youngest wants to start as soon as he turns 12 in July, given he can't until then. That's why we've built this to share which has it's first competitive outing in 8 years on Saturday (it's a Small frame which will be big-ish for him and is small-ish for me):


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4225496, member: 76"]How far do you comfortably cycle in a day, and how fast?[/QUOTE]
Usally do 30-35 miles at average 15 mph


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

Well looks like the cervelo has won my heart got plans to change the components on it and also looks like i won't get out over this weekend due to getting stuck with overtime at work hopefully i can get the new guy to take it ()


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## Ajax Bay (6 Apr 2016)

Various advice themes, some candid, some polite:
1) Give it a go; live your dreams (comment: doesn't address the OP's question)
2) Yes, you are too old / too slow for age or haven't got the genes (assumed)
3) Compare your current performance and circumstances with what pros or 'good-chance-to-be' pros can do, yourself
4) Join and ride with a club (to inform (3) and (4)

Congratulate the OP on generating 7 pages of discussion/comments, without anyone openly doubting your sincerity. And my view: yes, but find the type and level of cycling that you enjoy and get out there.


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## smutchin (6 Apr 2016)

Ajax Bay said:


> Congratulate the OP on generating 7 pages of discussion/comments, without anyone openly doubting your sincerity.



It's something we can all relate to - we all have that moment when we realise we're never going to win the Tour de France, it just comes at different stages of life for different people. 

If the op has a competitive spirit, he should certainly get out there and do a bit of racing. As well as TTs, he should try a bit of track and cyclocross too - competitive but lots of fun, and will have great training benefits for his road riding too.


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## Hacienda71 (6 Apr 2016)

To be honest TTing and road racing are rather different disciplines. 
On a TT it is a measured effort. On a 10 balls out. If you don't feel sick at the end you haven't tried hard enough. 
Racing crits or on the road are far more tactical. You need to learn the craft. The fastest guy quite often will not win. Tactics play a big part. A guy who can do a fast TT will not necessarily be a good road racer.
Imho you need to be able to ride a 20 mile loop at about 20mph average on a road bike to be at the sort of fitness level to start racing. 
You will find racing your fitness needs to be different to TT fitness. You need to be able to attack and respond to attacks, you therefore need to be able to recover and respond quickly. A really good racer can attack be caught and then attack again while the chasers are still in the red.


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## ColinJ (6 Apr 2016)

Hang on a minute - you do an 11 mile TT at 13.5 mph, but your typical training rides are 30-35 miles at 15 mph ...!!! 

Do you tow a car tyre behind you on TTs for some reason?


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

ColinJ said:


> Hang on a minute - you do an 11 mile TT at 13.5 mph, but your typical training rides are 30-35 miles at 15 mph ...!!!
> 
> Do you tow a car tyre behind you on TTs for some reason?


I have add weight to my bike for leg strengthing exercises plus theres a few hills on the course i do too and thats was before i started a wattbike sessions


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## Ajax Bay (6 Apr 2016)

@blazed - you have a soulmate


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## OskarTennisChampion (6 Apr 2016)

To give you an idea of how slow that is,I average 20.3 mph on loose over hard trails on a bike with a 2.5/2.35 " tyre combo.With aggressive treads to boot.
And it's not all flat either,with uphills reducing speed,and the downs to balance it out.
I'm really not trying to be cheeky or put you off mate,but you would need to really up the ante in speed terms.
On a race bike,you should be trouncing those speeds,and although 15 mph is not pedestrian,it's way below a good standard.
I wish you well,and I hope you achieve something good in cycling,because you seem keen as mustard.
A Cervelo is a useful tool in the right hands,so make it yours.


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> To give you an idea of how slow that is,I average 20.3 mph on loose over hard trails on a bike with a 2.5/2.35 " tyre combo.With aggressive treads to boot.
> And it's not all flat either,with uphills reducing speed,and the downs to balance it out.
> I'm really not trying to be cheeky or put you off mate,but you would need to really up the ante in speed terms.
> On a race bike,you should be trouncing those speeds,and although 15 mph is not pedestrian,it's way below a good standard.
> ...



Sure will even if its only a s2 but there beautiful to look at aswell


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## Dirk (6 Apr 2016)

This thread has got to be a wind up.


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## Gravity Aided (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Well looks like the cervelo has won my heart got plans to change the components on it and also looks like i won't get out over this weekend due to getting stuck with overtime at work hopefully i can get the new guy to take it ()


You have expensive dreams. Take the overtime.


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## Smokin Joe (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Usally do 30-35 miles at average 15 mph


Even the lowliest professionals have one thing in common with the top guys - they found amateur racing relatively easy and were winning regularly, that's how they attracted a pro team in the first place. And remember most of those who turn pro will be out the back door within two years, unable to make the grade.

15mph over 35 miles would get you dropped on a competitive club run, so I think we can safely conclude your chances of making it in serious amateur racing, let alone the professional stuff are on a par with my granddads. And he died in 1959.


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## Dirk (6 Apr 2016)

This thread reminds me of a certain character in a James Thurber short story.


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## smutchin (6 Apr 2016)

Dirk Thrust said:


> This thread reminds me of a certain character in a James Thurber short story.



Yeah, OK, so we don't think the OP is going to make it as a pro. Do you have anything useful or interesting to add to the discussion?


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## bikeman66 (6 Apr 2016)

Can't fathom whether this thread was started with genuine interest or not!

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from having a crack at something, because if doing that particular thing increases your enjoyment of it, then that has to be job done, doesn't it? If you gain a few results along the way, that is even better..........and who knows where it leads.

I didn't start rowing competitively until I was 38, and won my second novice race at the age of 40. Had a good degree of success since then (although no where near national level) and had a lot of fun along the way. So I would say you should find out where it is reckoned someone of your age and physicality should be, and get training. Investigate a coach to make sure your technique is not letting you down.......and go for it!

For a 22 year old, an 11 mile TT at 13.5mph doesn't sound all that impressive, but you have to start somewhere I guess. Was reading an article this afternoon about TT results, and this guy had done a 10 mile in just over 18 minutes. He was an amateur, so I think as far as ambitions to go professional are concerned, you need to learn to walk before you try to run!!

Even if your current stats aren't anything special, and other people's advice is not necessarily encouraging, if YOU want to give it a try.......then just bloody do it! If you love it, great! If not, just enjoy riding your bike at whatever level gives you maximum enjoyment.


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## screenman (6 Apr 2016)

My 58 year old wife will average 14mph for a 20 miler and that is after six months off for winter and she only has a £250 Pendleton thingy, how do I know, well because she always does and with little effort. Damned unfair if you ask me.


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## Cuchilo (6 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4226224, member: 76"]Ha, well that's you screwed. My daughter is 13, she could probably keep up with you, MiniUser76 is 16, he would drop you in the first 2 miles.

There is another way though, remember you won't get tested as an amateur..........  You know it makes sense, according to David Millar and Tyler Hamilton and hundreds of others, it's only the first time that causes a problem, after you have crossed the line you will never look back 




[/QUOTE]
Random testing is done at amateur level by UKAD .


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

bikeman66 said:


> Can't fathom whether this thread was started with genuine interest or not!
> 
> I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from having a crack at something, because if doing that particular thing increases your enjoyment of it, then that has to be job done, doesn't it? If you gain a few results along the way, that is even better..........and who knows where it leads.
> 
> ...



Not a troll just really thought i was too old


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

Gravity Aided said:


> You have expensive dreams. Take the overtime.



I would but its taking the mick as my manager just thinks i'll pick it up every week


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## Dirk (6 Apr 2016)

smutchin said:


> Yeah, OK, so we don't think the OP is going to make it as a pro. Do you have anything useful or interesting to add to the discussion?


I already have.


Dirk Thrust said:


> I think you have an awful lot of hard work ahead of you, if you want to become pro.
> I'm 40 years older than you. My best average on the local cycle clubs training route is 16.8 mph. That's over a 20 mile course with 1200 feet of climbing.
> Alex Dowsett is half as fast again, than me, over the same course - and he wasn't racing!


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## screenman (6 Apr 2016)

Now I have not got a clue where Jamma lives, but I am sure there are club tts going on local to him this week and for the next 6 months or so. Get racing and stop chatting.


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## smutchin (6 Apr 2016)

Dirk Thrust said:


> I already have.



OK, I'll let you off.  Thought you were just being a smartarse...

I do think it's an interesting topic for discussion though, even if the OP is possibly a little misguided in the level of his ambitions.

@screenman is right - I don't think anyone ever won the Tour de France by asking on internet forums if other cyclists thought they were up to it. It's one of those 'If you need to ask...' type questions.


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## bozmandb9 (6 Apr 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Even the lowliest professionals have one thing in common with the top guys - they found amateur racing relatively easy and were winning regularly, that's how they attracted a pro team in the first place. And remember most of those who turn pro will be out the back door within two years, unable to make the grade.
> 
> 15mph over 35 miles would get you dropped on a competitive club run, so I think we can safely conclude your chances of making it in serious amateur racing, let alone the professional stuff are on a par with my granddads. And he died in 1959.



Competitive club run? Ours is a non drop. When I took my 13 year old I nearly took him home, when he was struggling to keep pace at first, but he ended up keeping up at an average 17 over 70 miles! But maybe Jamma is riding really hilly territory?


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

screenman said:


> Now I have not got a clue where Jamma lives, but I am sure there are club tts going on local to him this week and for the next 6 months or so. Get racing and stop chatting.



Had the district wrong seems like there is a couple first on the 23rd of this month by the looks of link posted earlier today


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## Cuchilo (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Had the district wrong seems like there is a couple first on the 23rd of this month by the looks of link posted earlier today


You're north east right ?

Fill your boots .

*Date* *Event* *Course* *Dist.* *Cat* *Type* *Fee*
09 Apr 16 Ryton Tri (2-Up Ttt) M18 18 M Y J E SV P Team TT £9.00
ViewClosed
16 Apr 16 Wansbeck Cc M21 21 M Y J E SV P Tandem £8.00
ViewClosed
16 Apr 16 Wansbeck Cc M21 21 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.00
ViewClosed
24 Apr 16 Breeze Bikes Rt M27 27 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter 
01 May 16 Newcastle Cheviot Cc (Inc Vtta North 25) M2510 25 M Y J E SV P Tandem £8.00
ViewEnter 
01 May 16 (B) Newcastle Cheviot Cc (Inc Vtta North 25) M2510 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.00
ViewEnter 
08 May 16 North Tyneside Riders M12 12 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
15 May 16 Tyneside Vagabonds Cc (L&L Spoco) M47 47 M Y J E SV P Solo £11.00
ViewEnter
20 May 16 Cramlington Cc (Cheques To Mark Atkinson) M101 10 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
21 May 16 Blaydon Cc M107 9.9 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
29 May 16 Derwentside Cc (L&L Spoco) M40 40 M Y J E SV P Solo £9.00
ViewEnter
05 Jun 16 Allen Valley Velo (L&L Spoco) M12BX2 24 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
12 Jun 16 (B) North Tyneside Riders Cc M2511 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
15 Jun 16 (B) Barnesbury Cc M2510 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £9.00
ViewEnter
16 Jun 16 Ghs District Championship (North East Dc)(Tyneside Vagabonds Cc )(Under 17 On 31st August)(Cheques To R Clarke) M105 10 M Y J P Solo £5.00
ViewEnter
19 Jun 16 Sunderland Clarion Cc M254 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
25 Jun 16 Cestria Cc (Cheques To R Mitford) M9 9 M Y J E SV P Solo £9.50
ViewEnter
26 Jun 16 Houghton Cc M254 25 M Y J E SV P Tandem £8.50
ViewEnter
26 Jun 16 (B) Houghton Cc M254 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
01 Jul 16 Team Swift M101 10 M Y J E SV P Tandem £10.00
ViewEnter
01 Jul 16 Team Swift M101 10 M Y J E SV P Solo £10.00
ViewEnter
03 Jul 16 (B) Gosforth Rc M2511 25 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
10 Jul 16 Alnwick Cycling Club M13 12.7 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
17 Jul 16 Cramlington Cc (Cheques To Mark Jenkins) M101 10 M Y J E SV P Solo £8.50
ViewEnter
19 Jul 16 Houghton Cc M9 9 M Y J E SV P Tandem £8.00
ViewEnter


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## Dec66 (6 Apr 2016)

Maybe the whole subtext of this thread can be condensed like this?

"I've seen this Cervelo I really like, but I'm not sure if I can justify the expense, please tell me it is?"

Fill your boots, say I


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## Crandoggler (6 Apr 2016)

Putting it into perspective, I can average 19.2mph over 22 mile course and I use a relatively low grade Planet X bike and weigh over 100kg. So I dread to think what an amateur, or professional would complete that said course in. 

I'd say go for it, but the dedication and training required would be exhausting, and that's before genes start to play a part. 

It's one of those things. You've either got it, or you haven't. Same as any other high profile sport. I'm sure you can train to a certain level, beyond that is completely down to your physiology.


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## jamma (6 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> You're north east right ?
> 
> Fill your boots .
> 
> ...



Teesside and have no car and parents work weekends too


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## ColinJ (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Teesside and have no car and parents work weekends too


There used to be 3 hillclimb events here in the same weekend. A mate of mine spoke to a lad who rode down here from Newcastle (or was it Durham?) on the Friday evening after work. He competed in the 3 hillclimbs and then rode home on the Sunday evening so he could be back at work on the Monday morning ... Cycle to your TTs!


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## Cuchilo (6 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Teesside and have no car and parents work weekends too


I can see you're a dedicated rider .


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## screenman (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Had the district wrong seems like there is a couple first on the 23rd of this month by the looks of link posted earlier today



I think you may find other clubs run weekly club events the others can ride in, these will not be listed anywhere, you have to do a bit of homework.

How many miles did you get in today?


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## winjim (7 Apr 2016)

ColinJ said:


> There used to be 3 hillcimb events here in the same weekend. A mate of mine spoke to a lad who rode down here from Newcastle (or was it Durham?) on the Friday evening after work. He competed in the 3 hillclimbs and then rode home on the Sunday evening so he could be back at work on the Monday morning ... Cycle to your TTs!


The OP failed to complete a 60 mile ride due to being defeated by a 20% hill. He is not going to be able to ride all over the county to compete. Maybe when he gets that new 3.5 grand Cervelo.

OP. Save your money, ride your bike.


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## vickster (7 Apr 2016)

I'd say you aren't too old to start racing but you probably don't have it to be pro, not least you have what sounds like a full time job and a family that won't be able to run around helping you

I wouldn't buy that bike just yet, sounds like actually buying a car/van might be more useful for your plans and a cheaper bike if you actually need one


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## TheJDog (7 Apr 2016)

Don't just talk about it, do it. You'll soon find out if you have the ability, and if you don't, you'll find out if you have the desire to keep racing in whatever category your ability puts you in.

I would strongly advise against opening a bike shop. The only thing I would advise against more would be a restaurant.


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## Gravity Aided (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> I would but its taking the mick as my manager just thinks i'll pick it up every week


Right-You need the overtime- work it, and save that extra money for a used Cervelo. And when you need a new Cervelo, maybe your team's sponsor will provide it. I work for a major insurance company here in the States. We have a guy who is an ex-racer who commutes every day on his bike. Every day. Some snow, lots of rain, lots of wind, that old bike is out there, because it's wired into his being. He has to ride every day he can. So must you.


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## jamma (7 Apr 2016)

Gravity Aided said:


> Right-You need the overtime- work it, and save that extra money for a used Cervelo. And when you need a new Cervelo, maybe your team's sponsor will provide it. I work for a major insurance company here in the States. We have a guy who is an ex-racer who commutes every day on his bike. Every day. Some snow, lots of rain, lots of wind, that old bike is out there, because it's wired into his being. He has to ride every day he can. So must you.



Already got a new cervelo s2 getting priced up and it within budget so really don't need the overtime but i guess its nice to have the extra money


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## bikingdad90 (7 Apr 2016)

@jamma. Could be worth speaking to Chris from the Hub in Stockton, he races on weekends. I would see if you can go out with him a few times and see if you can keep up with his pace. It would give you a good indication of how far away you are off the pace.

I am sure the lads in Skinnergate cycles in Stockton also have a team. They are usually in the road race that takes place around the same time the Stockton Cycling Festival is on. You could get some sound advice from them regarding training and nutrition.

I would say go for it!


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## bladesman73 (7 Apr 2016)

im 43 and on merida 904 alu racer i avg approx 20-22 mph on a rolling course over 20-30 miles. i also weigh 205lbs. if the OP can only manage what he says he does at 22 he needs to stop thinking of being a pro now. stop encouraging him, be real, aim to be one of the best locally seems to be the most realistic option and even then that will be a challenge


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## ayceejay (7 Apr 2016)

Once upon a time I used to run into Sean Yates. The only time I got anywhere near him was when he was stopped. Sean used to work in landscaping get home change and be out on his bike, if it was raining and there was no work Sean would be out on his bike. Yates started from the opposite end to our OP, he loved riding and fitted his life around it and raced to win.the rest is, as they say - history.
I used to see another couple of riders I didn't know but if you see yourself all tanned, with muscular legs and on a shiny bike riding into the Champs Elysee in the July sunshine I offer you the picture of these two in February at the end of their day cold wet and tired. If you can't do one you are for sure not going to do the other.


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## Dec66 (7 Apr 2016)

I blame Strava.


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## Hacienda71 (7 Apr 2016)

Strava is actually quite useful to remind you how inadequate you are in comparison to the pros .


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## winjim (7 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4227086, member: 76"]@bladesman73 @Dirk Thrust and a couple of others have it right. Stop encouraging him, he is either on the wind up or is clueless. He will never be a professional, if he can't be arsed to get to races he won't be a pro. I know people who would ride 100 miles, sleep out, race, then cycle home, just so they could be in a race! If he is seduced by a pointlessly stupid bike, he will never be a pro. If he doesn't ride miles and miles every day, he won't be a pro. Most importantly, unless he gets 100% faster he won't be a pro. It is futile to keep on with this nonsense. If he came and stayed with us he would be the 5th quickest cyclist in the house, and that is only because our Beagle hasn't yet mastered reaching the pedals.

[/QUOTE]
He needs *dis*couraging, because someone with a genuine pro attitude would say "eff the lot of you, I'm going to do it anyway", disappear for two years and then come back smugly waving a team contract in our faces.


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## SpokeyDokey (7 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4227086, member: 76"]@bladesman73 @Dirk Thrust and a couple of others have it right. Stop encouraging him, he is either on the wind up or is clueless. He will never be a professional, if he can't be arsed to get to races he won't be a pro. I know people who would ride 100 miles, sleep out, race, then cycle home, just so they could be in a race! If he is seduced by a pointlessly stupid bike, he will never be a pro. If he doesn't ride miles and miles every day, he won't be a pro. Most importantly, unless he gets 100% faster he won't be a pro. It is futile to keep on with this nonsense. If he came and stayed with us he would be the 5th quickest cyclist in the house, and that is only because our Beagle hasn't yet mastered reaching the pedals.

I rode 13 miles in to work today, with a bloody great laptop, a file of papers and change of clothes (although I did forget my spare socks!) faster than he did a time trial, and I will be one of 00's on this forum who did the same thing today.

Forget the Cervelo, get a cheaper bike and just enjoy riding the thing around. He will get fitter/quicker/fitter/quicker as we all do, but he will never be as good as many of the youngsters or club riders I know who ride. And let's be honest, none of them will ever be pros.[/QUOTE]

*issed myself laughing at that.


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## nickyboy (7 Apr 2016)

Hacienda71 said:


> Strava is actually quite useful to remind you how inadequate you are in comparison to the pros .



I find it quite useful reminding myself how inadequate I am compared to you (Chris71?), let alone the pros


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## DCLane (7 Apr 2016)

@jamma - I came to this thread and contributed thinking that you were someone who was both interested and putting effort in.

Instead it's frustration and annoyance you're giving over. How many miles in the rain did you do yesterday? And the day before? When's the last club chaingang you were on? *All I'm reading are excuses and a new Cervelo won't provide you with the answer*. What's it matter that you can't get your parents to give you a lift to a race? Some of my club-mates will ride to the racing they're doing on Saturday because they don't have a car. What's worse is that the morning race is in the opposite direction to the afternoon race - yet there's a 16 year-old who will ride at both. And ride to and from each.

This morning I went out with my youngest because he wanted extra training. Why? Because he's struggling at the start of races this season to get up to speed. We did 45+ miles in the wind and rain which _may_ *or *_may not_ help him. Either way he chose to do the ride.

On Saturday morning he'll be racing in Elland whatever the weather. And it's certain to be heavy rain.

In the afternoon he's coming with me to my 10TT to cheer others on unless he can get someone to keep an eye on him at afternoon training on the track in Elland.

Then on the Sunday he's helping marshal his club's sportive so that funds can be raised for future bike racers.

Oh, and he's just 11.

If you're not willing to put the effort in now then GIVE UP.


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## Dec66 (7 Apr 2016)

DCLane said:


> If you're not willing to put the effort in now then GIVE UP.



Point of order... how can you give up something you haven't started?


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

SpokeyDokey said:


> View attachment 124055
> 
> 
> *issed myself laughing at that.
> View attachment 124056


Bars are too wide.
Have you lost weight?


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## Firestorm (7 Apr 2016)

Imo , I think the turning pro element of the original post is beyond the OP , however racing is not.
I have no figures on the standards of 4th cats, but I imagine it will take a bit of work to get competitive, but don't let that stop you giving it a go.
I can give you a bit of experience based on my Athletic career though.
At the age of 25 I started running, within 6 moths I felt I was capable of handling some road races.
Depending on the race, I was in the top half (bigger mass participation 10ks) or back 10% (local Athletic club organised events) but I still enjoyed it and it spurred me on to join the local club and train harder in the road running group.
Ended up doing the national xc champs , primarily because not enough club members better than me wanted to go all the way to Leeds, got lapped by Eamonn Martin et al and finished about 900th out of 1050.
5 years later, I ran the Essex 20 mile champs and was so far off the back they didn't record my time, but I kept it up, I enjoyed the occasion, but I was getting nowhere. I had a word with my coach a few months later, who said that, in all honesty, I was not cut out for distance and, given my various training performances, I ought to stick to what I was better at and enjoyed more, shorter faster stuff.
2 months and some really intense track training I made the clubs 3rd team at 400m.
Sure it was only Southern League div 7 , but I had my Mojo back.
I carried on, competing where and when I could. Div 7 , I was competitive, the day I first won a race was great, (Bournemouth July 92 I was 34).
County Championships were an experience, competing with internationals and watching them disappear into the distance..
I ended up doing the World vets in 99
Got a GB vest and all the kit, (had to buy it) , you just entered, it was not a selection thing , there were over 30 brits in the M40 100m alone, and I got thrashed, but it was one hell of an experience.

What this long winded diatribe is trying to say is, have reasonable goals, and realistic ideas of your actual standards, work a hard as you can to first reach your ideals then look to gradually improve them.
Don't let your standard stop you competing in the better quality events , but expect a stuffing and used the quality to motivate you to pbs.
Train with a group , hard work and dedication will gain you the respect of your peers regardless of your actual standard.


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## mythste (7 Apr 2016)

Firestorm said:


> Imo , I think the turning pro element of the original post is beyond the OP , however racing is not.
> I have no figures on the standards of 4th cats, but I imagine it will take a bit of work to get competitive, but don't let that stop you giving it a go.
> I can give you a bit of experience based on my Athletic career though.
> At the age of 25 I started running, within 6 moths I felt I was capable of handling some road races.
> ...



Lovely. Thanks for sharing and I think this is a great illustration of how you could go about these things and OP should heed the advice.

I think its fair that given the experience, if you had the genetic "extra 1%" or whatever, part of the process is making sure you're in a position for it to be honed and noticed.


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

Well done,and you gave it your all.
But the main thing is,you tried but did not fail IMO,because you found a level.
A level where you were still competitive,but the enjoyment was still there.


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## Hacienda71 (7 Apr 2016)

nickyboy said:


> I find it quite useful reminding myself how inadequate I am compared to you (Chris71?), let alone the pros


 You seem quick enough down the hills.


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## jamma (7 Apr 2016)

Firestorm said:


> Imo , I think the turning pro element of the original post is beyond the OP , however racing is not.
> I have no figures on the standards of 4th cats, but I imagine it will take a bit of work to get competitive, but don't let that stop you giving it a go.
> I can give you a bit of experience based on my Athletic career though.
> At the age of 25 I started running, within 6 moths I felt I was capable of handling some road races.
> ...



Thank you for the advice and i will heed it. I might have put my expectation to become pro a little to high but for racing i sure going to give it a go


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## Firestorm (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Thankvomiting the advice and i will heed it. I might have put my expectation to become pro a little to high but for racing i sure going to give it a go


If its anything like my Athletics, it may involve vomitting......


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## Cuchilo (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Thank you for the advice and i will heed it. I might have put my expectation to become pro a little to high but for racing i sure going to give it a go


One tip is to not race a bike you cant afford to replace .


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> One tip is to not race a bike you cant afford to replace .



You know,that's good advice.
He could pick up a half decent bike for 5 times less than a Cervelo,learn to hone his skills first,AND THEN move up the ladder so to speak.
I thought that was the "cycle" to coin a phrase.
A heavier bike would probably get your fitness levels up more,and when you get better along the line,you have the strength and stamina .
A Cervelo would feel like a balloon then.
Kinda puzzled at the OP going for an expensive,near the top of line bike straight away.
Great that you can do it,but I would work my way up personally.
Over to you @jamma


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## ayceejay (7 Apr 2016)

Uh oh another anecdote: some time in the 80's - 84 I think I was marshalling in the pits for the Tour of Britain. The bikes the Russians were riding were a sight although they were Colnago they were painted the same colour as a London bus with paint that looks like it came from Woolworths and were of a rare vintage. It didn't stop the riders from doing well though but this was something to do with what was in their blood apart from blood, I think.


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## jamma (7 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> You know,that's good advice.
> He could pick up a half decent bike for 5 times less than a Cervelo,learn to hone his skills first,AND THEN move up the ladder so to speak.
> I thought that was the "cycle" to coin a phrase.
> A heavier bike would probably get your fitness levels up more,and when you get better along the line,you have the strength and stamina .
> ...



The cervelo is the s2 has 105 groupset nothing fancy on offer at my lbs for £1694


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## winjim (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> ...nothing fancy..£1694




OK, my bike maybe cost a bit more than that, but it's _farking_ fancy.


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> The cervelo is the s2 has 105 groupset nothing fancy on offer at my lbs for £1694



Oooh right,I had the 3.5K figure in my head.
That was the Giant wasn't it ?
Still a hefty tag though.
There is a wealth of road bikes in the £700-800 bracket,that would suit you.
And all are nicely specced too,with durable components.
It's your call though,and getting a Cervelo first off is the envy of many a bloke.
Just a thought old bean


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## Cuchilo (7 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> OK, my bike maybe cost a bit more than that, but it's _farking_ fancy.


Pictures please


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## Crandoggler (7 Apr 2016)

Get a Planet X EC130. You'll be fast a fark out the bag. http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXRR...vet-rider-shimano-ultegra-6800-aero-road-bike


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Pictures please



What do you mean ?
it's in his avatar picture


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## CaadX (7 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Oooh right,I had the 3.5K figure in my head.
> That was the Giant wasn't it ?
> Still a hefty tag though.
> There is a wealth of road bikes in the £700-800 bracket,that would suit you.
> ...


If he can afford it, let him buy what he wants.


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> If he can afford it, let him buy what he wants.



Good call


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## Cuchilo (7 Apr 2016)

CaadX said:


> If he can afford it, let him buy what he wants.


I don't think its a case of telling someone what to buy . Its advice on racing .


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## CaadX (7 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> I don't think its a case of telling someone what to buy . Its advice on racing .


I was refering to a single post hence the quote.


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## jamma (7 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Oooh right,I had the 3.5K figure in my head.
> That was the Giant wasn't it ?
> Still a hefty tag though.
> There is a wealth of road bikes in the £700-800 bracket,that would suit you.
> ...


Yes the Giant cost 3.5k but when i was saw the cervelo for that price though


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## winjim (7 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Pictures please


Well it basically looks like every other titanium road bike but with Campagnolo Chorus and badass Mike Giant bar tape . Search my username in the Show us your titanium thread. Need to take some better pictures of it actually now I come to think of it...


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> Well it basically looks like every other titanium road bike but with Campagnolo Chorus and badass Mike Giant bar tape . Search my username in the Show us your titanium thread. Need to take some better pictures of it actually now I come to think of it...



Nice jalopy from what I can see of it 
What's that fork ?


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## winjim (7 Apr 2016)

OskarTennisChampion said:


> Nice jalopy from what I can see of it
> What's that fork ?


ENVE Road 2.0. I don't know much about forks but Drew at SP!N who sold me the frame said he thinks ENVE make the best and he gave me a discount so there we are .


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Apr 2016)

winjim said:


> ENVE Road 2.0. I don't know much about forks but Drew at SP!N who sold me the frame said he thinks ENVE make the best and he gave me a discount so there we are .



Yeah,I thought I recognised the decals.
Enve are a very popular choice of Wheelset in MTB world.
They go sticker crazy on the wheels,but they are top notch.


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## bikeman66 (7 Apr 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> I can see you're a dedicated rider .


Have to say, I totally agree with the point Cuchilo is making here! 

Jamma.......... You are asking people's opinions on two very basic issues regarding racing, and then putting up barriers when they try to suggest potential ways forward. We have established that your average speeds are coming up short, but you can improve that situation by training. However, your apparent mental approach will hold you back. Basically.......if you want something bad enough, just find a way to make it happen. Success doesn't fall in your lap, it is gained through sheer bloody hard work. Instead of getting hung up on what you think can't be done, identify what is possible and crack on with doing it!

The juniors that I coach at my rowing club never have negative situations presented to them. I never tell them what they have done wrong during a session, but I'll always tell them what we can do better. Even if an outing has been predominantly poor, there is always at least one silver lining......and that will be highlighted to them in the very last sentence I leave them with during our de-brief! We all respond to positivity.......so start putting your head in order, and make things happen.......if that is what you have set your sights on!


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## jamma (7 Apr 2016)

bikeman66 said:


> Have to say, I totally agree with the point Cuchilo is making here!
> 
> Jamma.......... You are asking people's opinions on two very basic issues regarding racing, and then putting up barriers when they try to suggest potential ways forward. We have established that your average speeds are coming up short, but you can improve that situation by training. However, your apparent mental approach will hold you back. Basically.......if you want something bad enough, just find a way to make it happen. Success doesn't fall in your lap, it is gained through sheer bloody hard work. Instead of getting hung up on what you think can't be done, identify what is possible and crack on with doing it!
> 
> The juniors that I coach at my rowing club never have negative situations presented to them. I never tell them what they have done wrong during a session, but I'll always tell them what we can do better. Even if an outing has been predominantly poor, there is always at least one silver lining......and that will be highlighted to them in the very last sentence I leave them with during our de-brief! We all respond to positivity.......so start putting your head in order, and make things happen.......if that is what you have set your sights on!



Thanks and i understand what your saying and i think i need a coach who can see what i am doing right and what i can improve on whilst out riding and racing.


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## LewisLondon (8 Apr 2016)

jamma said:


> Thanks and i understand what your saying and i think i need a coach who can see what i am doing right and what i can improve on whilst out riding and racing.



Mate as you may have seen from my questions in this thread i'm not advanced at all. I would seriously question why you need a coach though. Everyone has told you the same thing, what you're doing wrong is not being fit enough. The fix is to get a 6/8/10/12 week plan, and follow that. See where it takes you!


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## Dec66 (8 Apr 2016)

I'll be your coach. Here's today's lesson;

(1) have a bowl of slow-release carbs, perhaps porridge and a banana, and have a good drink of water.
(2) put comfortable cycling attire on, with respect to the weather conditions.
(3) retrieve bike, check tyres are inflated to desired pressure and that brakes and fears are working.
(4) place hands on bars, swing over leg, sit on saddle.
(5) place one foot on the nearest pedal, push off with other foot.
(6) place other foot on other pedal and push down, then repeat with the other side. This should turn the front ring and make the back wheel turn, if the chain is engaged.
(7) if road bends to left, apply appropriate pulling pressure to left hand side of handlebars. If road bends to right, apply appropriate pulling pressure to right hand side of handlebars.
(8) repeat for as many miles as you can comfortably manage.
(9) have a shower and a drink and a nibble at the end.
(10) repeat another day, preferably the next one.

Sorry to be facetious. You don't need a coach. You need to ride more.


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## OskarTennisChampion (8 Apr 2016)

Dec66 said:


> I'll be your coach. Here's today's lesson;
> 
> (1) have a bowl of slow-release carbs, perhaps porridge and a banana, and have a good drink of water.
> (2) put comfortable cycling attire on, with respect to the weather conditions.
> ...




You're a rascal


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## Crackle (8 Apr 2016)

At 22 you'll improve quickly, something half these crusty old farts have long forgotten under the weight of pies diverting blood from their muscles to their belly. You may not be a pro Jamma but it's good to dream and 22 is too young to stop dreaming, realization has it's own timescales, so in the meantime get the best bike you can and do the most riding you can, time enough to become a cynical old fart like us but not yet.


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## smutchin (8 Apr 2016)

Dec66 said:


> (7) if road bends to left, apply appropriate pulling pressure to left hand side of handlebars. If road bends to right, apply appropriate pulling pressure to right hand side of handlebars.



I don't want to open that tedious can of worms, but that is _not_ how you steer a bicycle.


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## Dec66 (8 Apr 2016)

smutchin said:


> I don't want to open that tedious can of worms, but that is _not_ how you steer a bicycle.


I did think about that when posting, but I didn't want to overcomplicate things on the first lesson


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## Milkfloat (8 Apr 2016)

smutchin said:


> I don't want to open that tedious can of worms, but that is _not_ how you steer a bicycle.



It is at slow speed - which is quite apt in this thread.


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## Dec66 (8 Apr 2016)

Crackle said:


> At 22 you'll improve quickly, something half these crusty old farts have long forgotten under the weight of pies diverting blood from their muscles to their belly. You may not be a pro Jamma but it's good to dream and 22 is too young to stop dreaming, realization has it's own timescales, so in the meantime get the best bike you can and do the most riding you can, time enough to become a cynical old fart like us but not yet.


I don't think this crusty old fart is trying to shatter his dreams, but this crusty old fart remembers how little he had in the way of disposable income at the age of 22, and thinks that getting more miles in on the existing bike would be better than spending money on marginals gains.

If he insists on buying the nice flash bike, then go for it. But a coach?

(BTW may Vernon forgive me, but at the risk of looking like a traitor to my birthright, I don't eat pies )


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## ayceejay (8 Apr 2016)

If he had a coach there would be no trouble getting to events and he could take his fans along too.


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## Dec66 (8 Apr 2016)

[QUOTE 4228435, member: 76"]Well, there have been some shocking revelations on this thread, but this, this is too much. Being too slow to race and too clueless to know you are spending too much on a bike is one thing........not eating pies though [/QUOTE]
I know, I know... Trust me, when I lived on Merseyside, there was nothing I loved more than grabbing something from Sayers, or a nice pie dinner from Mike and Acie's in Woolton, or either of The Famous Blue Stars, or even branching out into Sintellens for a meat and potato from Pimbletts... But now, esconced in the land of pie and mash? Can't abide the things.

I am deeply sorry, and all I can do is to prostrate myself over my top tube and handlebars, and in the manner of St. Sebastian, allow the pie-oriented arrows of disapproval from all and sundry to pierce my milky-white, slim (yet strangely not "ripped"**) torso.

May God, and the inventor of shortcrust pastry, forgive my transgression into the vistas of rocket salad drizzled with extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar.










(** it could be ripped, if only I had a dietary coach to tell me, for £500 a go, that the hole at the top is bigger than the one round the back)


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## OskarTennisChampion (8 Apr 2016)

Dec66 said:


> I am deeply sorry, and all I can do is to prostrate myself over my top tube and handlebars, and in the manner of St. Sebastian, allow the pie-oriented arrows of disapproval from all and sundry to pierce my milky-white, slim (yet strangely not "ripped"**) torso.
> 
> 
> > My ringtone is a song called Lucky Like St Sebastian.
> ...


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## smutchin (8 Apr 2016)

Dec66 said:


> If he insists on buying the nice flash bike, then go for it. But a coach?



A coach would arguably be a much better investment than a new bike if he really does have racing aspirations.

The only problem he might have is that a coach can't do the work for you, only tell you what you need to do. And not turning up to races is the surest way to guarantee you won't win them.

If I were the OP, I would spend the money on the flash new bike and just enjoy riding it at my own speed.


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## jamma (8 Apr 2016)

smutchin said:


> A coach would arguably be a much better investment than a new bike if he really does have racing aspirations.
> 
> The only problem he might have is that a coach can't do the work for you, only tell you what you need to do. And not turning up to races is the surest way to guarantee you won't win them.
> 
> If I were the OP, I would spend the money on the flash new bike and just enjoy riding it at my own speed.



Thanks for your advice and will take it onboard


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## Velominati (9 Apr 2016)

Simple really, What have you got to lose? There's not a single person on here that can turn your dreams into reality, only you can do that. The worst that can happen is that your tried and failed, the best that can happen is that you achieve your dream, either way you will be able to live your life and know that you gave it your best, don't leave it, just go for it, you may surprise yourself. Good Luck.


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## PhilDawson8270 (11 Apr 2016)

I would just like to leave this here.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/damien-shaw-30-signs-for-an-post-chainreaction-for-2016-2/


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