# What makes you fat?



## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

For me it has been potatoes. Have always tried to keep my weight down. Always hovered around 12 stone. Over the last 6 months i have cut out potatoes and gone with rice instead. Am know under 11 stone. Still like a biscuit with my tea. A few beers. Have slowed down on red meat. Eat a lot of chicken. And feeling good.


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## Cuchilo (6 Oct 2018)

I upped my fish intake in the spring this year and started to get a belly  Cut out the fish and it went away 
Go figure


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## fossyant (6 Oct 2018)

Carbs are the issue, mainly white carbs, potatoes and bread. I've lost a lot recently due to no appetite from pain meds, but I've stopped eating carbs to the usual extent.


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## fossyant (6 Oct 2018)

Cuchilo said:


> I upped my fish intake in the spring this year and started to get a belly  Cut out the fish and it went away
> Go figure



Leave the puffer fish alone. Salmon, lean and mean.


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## slowmotion (6 Oct 2018)

Holidays.


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## Slick (6 Oct 2018)

Not being able to get out on the bike and bread usually do it for me.

Middle age and getting paid to stare at a computer screen don't help. Did I mention the vienetta?


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## glasgowcyclist (6 Oct 2018)

Beer for me. I've had no alcohol for two months now and been eating lots more fruit and veg, resulting in a loss of 5kg. Beer belly is still there but there's less of it.


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## Drago (6 Oct 2018)

Bread.


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## numbnuts (6 Oct 2018)

Biscuits and being diabetic I shouldn't even have them


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## Mrs M (6 Oct 2018)

Crisps


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (6 Oct 2018)

Serious answer: Over eating

My answer: just looking at cake


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## Milzy (6 Oct 2018)

Full fat milk. 

Chocolate. 

Ice cream.


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## MontyVeda (6 Oct 2018)

Slick said:


> Not being able to get out on the bike and bread usually do it for me.
> 
> *Middle age and getting paid to stare at a computer screen* don't help. Did I mention the vienetta?





glasgowcyclist said:


> *Beer* for me. I've had no alcohol for two months now and been eating lots more fruit and veg, resulting in a loss of 5kg. Beer belly is still there but there's less of it.



Never been fat but did get myself a rather unsightly and somewhat unshiftable beer gut a decade ago, for the same reasons highlighted above... then i got a job running around Aldi and the beer gut was gone in six months.  ...only downside is I'm now struggling to find jeans with a 30" waist and a 34" leg


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## PK99 (6 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> For me it has been potatoes. Have always tried to keep my weight down. Always hovered around 12 stone. Over the last 6 months i have cut out potatoes and gone with rice instead. Am know under 11 stone. Still like a biscuit with my tea. A few beers. Have slowed down on red meat. Eat a lot of chicken. And feeling good.



How much potatoes vs how much rice?


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## vickster (6 Oct 2018)

Boredom


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## Milzy (6 Oct 2018)

MontyVeda said:


> Never been fat but did get myself a rather unsightly and somewhat unshiftable beer gut a decade ago, for the same reasons highlighted above... then i got a job running around Aldi and the beer gut was gone in six months.  ...only downside is I'm now struggling to find jeans with a 30" waist and a 34" leg


LOL you long streak of urine!


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## fossyant (6 Oct 2018)

Don't get prescribed Duloxetine. Not been out for a meal for 4-5 months. Can't stand the smell of cooking food - If I cook, I won't eat it. If a queue for a lovely buffet, and smell it, I put my plate down. ~If I can't smell the food before I eat it, I may actually eat it. Not good.

Horrid meds. I'm managing on toast, soup and fruit.


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## MikeG (6 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> For me it has been potatoes........



Potatoes don't make you fat. An excess of calories consumed over calories spent makes you fat. You can't blame the potatoes alone for their role in that excess. Or rice, or cakes, or beer. It's perfectly possible to have all of that lot and remain not-fat.


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## Spoons47 (6 Oct 2018)

fossyant said:


> Carbs are the issue, mainly white carbs, potatoes and bread. I've lost a lot recently due to no appetite from pain meds, but I've stopped eating carbs to the usual extent.


+1 for cutting down on carbs. Worked miracles for me.


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## Milzy (6 Oct 2018)

I find if you put in plenty of power on your rides you can get away with a lot of things listed above. Don’t be too concerned with weighing yourself. Just put more effort on the pedals and weight/fat will take care of its self.


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> How much potatoes vs how much rice?


A meal is a meal.


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Beer for me. I've had no alcohol for two months now and been eating lots more fruit and veg, resulting in a loss of 5kg. Beer belly is still there but there's less of it.


My beer intake has not changed, i do like a beer.


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## PK99 (6 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> A meal is a meal.



No its not....


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## FishFright (6 Oct 2018)

More calories in than calories out.


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## Fab Foodie (6 Oct 2018)

Alcohol, business travel.


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> No its not....


When is a meal not a meal?


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## Cycleops (6 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> LOL you long streak of urine!


My wife actually is, she drinks it! Swears by it.


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## Milzy (6 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> When is a meal not a meal?


When it is more like 2 meals!!


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> I find if you put in plenty of power on your rides you can get away with a lot of things listed above. Don’t be too concerned with weighing yourself. Just put more effort on the pedals and weight/fat will take care of its self.


Thats not true, i ride between 5 and 7 thousand miles a year, have never lost any weight through riding alone,


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> When it is more like 2 meals!!


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## derrick (6 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5402944, member: 9609"]so to sum up - the trick is to cut out potatoes, ride in groups ? and beer is good[/QUOTE]
Works for me.


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## ColinJ (6 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> I find if you put in plenty of power on your rides you can get away with a lot of things listed above. Don’t be too concerned with weighing yourself.* Just put more effort on the pedals and weight/fat will take care of its self*.


If you are cycling 100+ miles a day, every day, perhaps ... 

On my first cycling holiday in Spain I did 750 miles of hilly to mountainous riding at the highest pace that I could sustain and I put on 6 lbs during the 2 week holiday! (Daily unlimited buffet breakfast, cafe stop, snacks, unlimited evening buffet, a few beers.)


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## Sharky (6 Oct 2018)

Milk

I've put on about 12 stone since I started drinking milk.


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## Seevio (7 Oct 2018)

Beans and chilli does it for me.

Edit: Sorry, I misread an extra "R" into the thread title. It's beer. Beer makes me fat.


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## Milzy (7 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> Thats not true, i ride between 5 and 7 thousand miles a year, have never lost any weight through riding alone,


Wow! I’ve only done 2,500 this year and lost 1 1/2 stone. I think some people’s metabolisms just suck.


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## screenman (7 Oct 2018)

Lack of self control. I have found that you can never out in a bad diet.


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## Milzy (7 Oct 2018)

I swear by a high carb low fat vegan diet with no oils. Apparently Peter Sagan is onboard with that now.


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## Katherine (7 Oct 2018)

FishFright said:


> More calories in than calories out.


Same for me.


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## Heltor Chasca (7 Oct 2018)

I like the theory that 10% of weight loss can be achieved on the bike. 90% is lost in the kitchen.


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## Katherine (7 Oct 2018)

fossyant said:


> Don't get prescribed Duloxetine. Not been out for a meal for 4-5 months. Can't stand the smell of cooking food - If I cook, I won't eat it. If a queue for a lovely buffet, and smell it, I put my plate down. ~If I can't smell the food before I eat it, I may actually eat it. Not good.
> 
> Horrid meds. I'm managing on toast, soup and fruit.


How horrid for you. 
Have you tried a tiny bit of vasaline just in front of your nostrils.
Also, what about a mini fan to waft the smells away .


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## mustang1 (7 Oct 2018)

You can't out-exercise a bad diet.


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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> I swear by a high carb low fat vegan diet with no oils. Apparently Peter Sagan is onboard with that now.


How many calories a day do you consume?
Do you have a manual / physical job? The weight loss is probably not just down to cycling if you do

And yes clearly, metabolisms do vary from person to person


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## PK99 (7 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> Wow! I’ve only done 2,500 this year and lost 1 1/2 stone. I think some people’s metabolisms just suck.



I think it is actually easier to lose weight on lower milage. 
20 miles 1000 calories = no need for extra eating
60 miles 3000 calories = need to feed during ride and recovery, difficult to balance.


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## ColinJ (7 Oct 2018)

ColinJ said:


> On my first cycling holiday in Spain I did 750 miles of hilly to mountainous riding at the highest pace that I could sustain and I put on 6 lbs during the 2 week holiday! (Daily unlimited buffet breakfast, cafe stop, snacks, unlimited evening buffet, a few beers.)





vickster said:


> And yes clearly, metabolisms do vary from person to person


A friend did the same holiday as me, same rides, near enough the same food and drink. I went up to about 13 st 7 lbs. He remained stuck down at a very slim 10 st 2 lbs...


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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> I think it is actually easier to lose weight on lower milage.
> 20 miles 1000 calories = no need for extra eating
> 60 miles 3000 calories = need to feed during ride and recovery, difficult to balance.


Who burns a 1000 calories in 20 miles other than Milzy? 600 would be more likely


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## PK99 (7 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Who burns a 1000 calories in 20 miles other than Milzy? 600 would be more likely



rule of thumb is 50 calories a mile - almost speed independent


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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> rule of thumb is 50 calories a mile - almost speed independent


Not around SW London I'd argue (unless maybe if 20+ stone doing hill repeats in Richmond Park on a mountain bike)


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## CXRAndy (7 Oct 2018)

500 cals per hour for a gentle ride. 1000 cals for a hard hour


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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> 500 cals per hour for a gentle ride. 1000 cals for a hard hour


Using what scientific method?
450-500/hour sounds about right for my 30 cals a mile as I ride at 13-17mph (if lucky with traffic) on my flat rides on sub(urban) roads 
That’s not a gentle ride for me, that’s flat out


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## ColinJ (7 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Who burns a 1000 calories in 20 miles other than Milzy? 600 would be more likely


I work on 40-45 cals per mile on moderate pace, moderately hilly rides. Hard, hilly rides round here, more like 45-50 cals per mile.

That's a guesstimate based on losing ~1 pound in weight on every 100 mile ride that I've done and ~1.25 pounds on 200s (kms - 125 mile rides) and takes into account what I eat and drink on those rides. Weights measured after fluid losses due to dehydration have been addressed.

I was going to link to Bike Calculator but it seems to be down at the moment. I think that came up with similar numbers. 
*
PS *It was my laptop playing up. Bike Calculator is running fine and tends to support your figures _on the flat_. I average 2% climbing on my rides (20 metres ascent per km or 100 ft per mile).


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## Racing roadkill (7 Oct 2018)

Eating too much energy dense, substance lacking stuff, and booze ( pretty much empty calories) without moving enough to justify the intake, usually does it.


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## Milzy (7 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5403269, member: 9609"]i guess it depends a lot on ascent. a typical ride of 20 miles would involve 1000' ascent, from my own rule of thumb 1000' ascent = 10 miles on the flat. So a regular 20 miles would be comparable to 30 flat miles, 30*35= just over a 1000 calories. (and I would imagine speed and weight are also massive factors) its a difficult one to call.
but what ever rule you use it is very surprising how far you can ride on a small quantity of food.[/QUOTE]
I’ve just checked my Strava history since January & I’ve done lots of 20’s, these tend to be my on the rivet rides. On average 1000 calories, fairly flat courses.


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## PK99 (7 Oct 2018)

*Calories per mile at 12mph, by rider weight, level terrain

150lb/68.1kg = 48
175lb/79.4kg = 56
200lb/90.7kg* = 64
*225lb/102.1*kg =71
*250lb/113.3kg* =79

Source:
https://caloriesburnedhq.com/calories-burned-biking/


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## Salty seadog (7 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> *Calories per mile at 12mph, by rider weight, level terrain
> 
> 150lb/68.1kg = 48
> 175lb/79.4kg = 56
> ...



Not as cut and dry as that. It can be used as an extremely rough guide.


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## PK99 (7 Oct 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Not as cut and dry as that. It can be used as an extremely rough guide.



Agreed, but as a simple rule of thumb it works fine

Chapter and verse are in the link


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## Salty seadog (7 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> Agreed, but as a simple rule of thumb it works fine
> 
> Chapter and verse are in the link


Yeah, I saw that,

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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

PK99 said:


> Agreed, but as a simple rule of thumb it works fine
> 
> Chapter and verse are in the link


Except it doesn’t seem to take BMR, nor age into account, let alone gender. So every individual of the same weight burns exactly the same calories. Seriously is that true?

Apparently on my flat ride of 20 miles today I burned 1500 calories. I should have had 3 more pastries. What a crock

The Fitbit / Strava which holds my age, gender, height and weights reckons 660 calories for the ride time/distance


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## presta (7 Oct 2018)

My average daily calorie intake vs average daily exercise hours:


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## Milzy (7 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Except it doesn’t seem to take BMR, nor age into account, let alone gender. So every individual of the same weight burns exactly the same calories. Seriously is that true?
> 
> Apparently on my flat ride of 20 miles today I burned 1500 calories. I should have had 3 more pastries. What a crock
> 
> The Fitbit / Strava which holds my age, gender, height and weights reckons 660 calories for the ride time/distance


Yes that’s BS I kill myself for 1000 on 20 miles.


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## CXRAndy (7 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Using what scientific method?
> 450-500/hour sounds about right for my 30 cals a mile as I ride at 13-17mph (if lucky with traffic) on my flat rides on sub(urban) roads
> That’s not a gentle ride for me, that’s flat out



Everyone is different, that would be a relatively gentle ride, where 20+ is a hard ride for me. Evidence is just from the analysis from Strava, Trainer Road for my efforts


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## vickster (7 Oct 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Everyone is different, that would be a relatively gentle ride, where 20+ is a hard ride for me. Evidence is just from the analysis from Strava, Trainer Road for my efforts


I’m a commuter / recreational cyclist not an athlete


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## si_c (8 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Except it doesn’t seem to take BMR, nor age into account, let alone gender. So every individual of the same weight burns exactly the same calories. Seriously is that true?
> 
> Apparently on my flat ride of 20 miles today I burned 1500 calories. I should have had 3 more pastries. What a crock
> 
> The Fitbit / Strava which holds my age, gender, height and weights reckons 660 calories for the ride time/distance



It's not a great rule of thumb by my calculations - it reckons that I burn about the same number of calories for a fast hours ride, which doesn't seem right to me.

Based on a hard, reasonably lumpy 6 hour ride I burn around 5500ish calories, which works out around 55cal per mile (so on a par with what @ColinJ estimated for a similar ride). For a less strenuous but similarly profiled ride, I'd expect to burn around 35-40 cals per mile.


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## screenman (8 Oct 2018)

I take what Garmin tells me then half it.


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## Shortandcrisp (8 Oct 2018)

Exercise proved to be a magic bullet for me. Used to weigh 25st+ ten years ago. Started weightlifting everyday. Weight dropped off. As I became lighter and healthier, started to walk further, took up tennis and badminton and eventually got back into cycling. No dieting involved. Now 12st (have been for the last 6-7 years) and still eat whatever I like on 100+ miles a week of cycling and 6-7 hours of weightlifting and adhoc yoga.


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## Alan O (8 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> Potatoes don't make you fat. An excess of calories consumed over calories spent makes you fat. You can't blame the potatoes alone for their role in that excess. Or rice, or cakes, or beer. It's perfectly possible to have all of that lot and remain not-fat.


Indeed. I was surprised to learn recently that potatoes have only about half the calories of bread, and about 40% less than rice or pasta - and potatoes are more filling.


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## Alan O (8 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5402921, member: 9609"]no way I'm burning the amount of energy that I'm comsuming[/QUOTE]
If your weight is remaining the same, then yes, you are. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics


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## MikeG (8 Oct 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> But, going back to the OP: I gave up alcohol over 10 years ago. My weight dropped by about 20kg over a couple of years then stabilised to where it's been ever since give or take the odd kilo now and then. So the culprit in my case was pretty clear.



It wasn't the alcohol which kept your weight high, specifically. It was the excess calories you consumed. If instead of alcohol you had cut out food of the equivalent calorific value, but had continued drinking, your weight would still have declined in the same way.


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## Alan O (8 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5404415, member: 9609"]i'm sure I have read that as fitness increases so can your general metabolism, and if that is correct then that would burn up more food. (yes, that is still energy being burnt but it is not miles on bike etc)[/QUOTE]
Yes, but that still leads to an equilibrium whereby the kcals you take in compared to the kcals you burn result in the appropriate change in body fat - and the essential energy equation remains unchanged.


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## mick1836 (8 Oct 2018)




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## Spoons47 (8 Oct 2018)

mick1836 said:


> View attachment 433238



Apart from the beans and mushrooms that is my ideal low carb breakfast that sets you up for the day. Nuts and smoothie for lunch then some lean meat and as much green leafy veg as you can eat. Along with exercise, weight will fall off.


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## kevin_cambs_uk (8 Oct 2018)

Carbs

Pasta
Bread
Rice
Spuds

I am on a low carb diet, never going to win any cycle races but wow the weight just plummets


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## Spoons47 (8 Oct 2018)

kevin_cambs_uk said:


> Carbs
> 
> Pasta
> Bread
> ...


You got it those are the 4 enemies.


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## MikeG (8 Oct 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> You're making the assumption that I was actually consuming "food of the equivalent calorific value".



Fair point, well made.


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## MikeG (8 Oct 2018)

Spoons47 said:


> You got it those are the 4 enemies.



They are _*not*_ enemies. They are an important part of a balanced diet. Have a balanced diet, balanced too with the amount of energy you burn up, and you won't need to put whole classes of food into Room 101. If you need to take 300 calories a day out of your diet to get back to energy in equalling energy out, it matters not a jot if those 300 calories are carbs, fats, or protein.


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## Milzy (8 Oct 2018)

kevin_cambs_uk said:


> Carbs
> 
> Pasta
> Bread
> ...


I couldn’t get out of bed living like that.


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## MikeG (8 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5404455, member: 9609"]......... Presumably it is possible for the body to pass (as in poo) some of the nutrician ?......[/QUOTE]

That's still calories out.


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## PK99 (8 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> It wasn't the alcohol which kept your weight high, specifically. It was the excess calories you consumed. If instead of alcohol you had cut out food of the equivalent calorific value, but had continued drinking, your weight would still have declined in the same way.



You are of course correct, but lots of us make the mistake (deliberate blindness?) of keeping track of solid calories and ignoring the liquid ones.


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## Spoons47 (8 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE="MikeG, post: 5404687, member: 34780"They are _*not*_ enemies. They are an important part of a balanced diet. Have a balanced diet, balanced too with the amount of energy you burn up, and you won't need to put whole classes of food into Room 101. If you need to take 300 calories a day out of your diet to get back to energy in equalling energy out, it matters not a jot if those 300 calories are carbs, fats, or protein.[/QUOTE]
It happens to be my opinion based on fact and losing a shed load of weight and managing to keep it off. There obviously is the calorie count camp who are also entitled to their opinion. As an aside more than one of the doctors at my surgery sanctioned the diet, as long as plenty of healthy veg was consumed, which is the whole idea on a low carb diet. Incidentally a low carb diet also has to cut out bad sugars, which let’s face it, everybody would benefit from. Low carb diet also promotes eggs and oily fish which are also very good for you.
Oh and don’t forget Avocados, my personal favourite


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## Edwardoka (8 Oct 2018)

Spoons47 said:


> Low carb diet also promotes eggs and oily fish which are also very good for you.


Unless you're a hen or an oily fish...


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## Spoons47 (8 Oct 2018)

Edwardoka said:


> Unless you're a hen or an oily fish...


There is that...


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## Globalti (9 Oct 2018)

Beer is a double whammy because the carbs make you fat and the ethanol suppresses testosterone meaning you grow tits.


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## byegad (9 Oct 2018)

An 8 oz steak, rare, puts about a stone on me, more if I eat it rather than just walk past it.


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## Crackle (9 Oct 2018)




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## derrick (9 Oct 2018)

Crackle said:


> View attachment 433311


I drink plenty of beer, but i am not fat, my beer belly what there was of it has disapeared. Defo potatoes and red meat.


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## Truth (9 Oct 2018)

This MUST be my favourite thread in ages! Comedy genius !


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Oct 2018)

The mirror


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## Freelanderuk (10 Oct 2018)

Since September 2017 to October 2018 I have lost 8.5 stone in weight , this is down to cutting calories ,I did not cut anything out of my diet (apart from winegums) and still havent, I still drink appox 10/14 pints of johns smiths beer on a weekend and I don't count any liquid I drink as calories, calories in verse calories out is simple the more you put in and the less out you will put on the weight
What makes me fat is eating to much
This is my Garmin chart of weight lose for the last 12 months


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## vickster (10 Oct 2018)

Calories aside, you might want to discuss your binge drinking with a doctor


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## derrick (10 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Calories aside, you might want to discuss your binge drinking with a doctor


That ain't binge drinking, Thats a normal amount to consume in a weekend.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> That ain't binge drinking, Thats a normal amount to consume in a weekend.
> View attachment 433385


Normal for who? A heavy drinker?
I don’t drink 14 pints in a weekend. I doubt I drink that much in a month except maybe in December


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> That ain't binge drinking, Thats a normal amount to consume in a weekend.
> View attachment 433385


The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism is American - nothing to do with us. We binge our own way.


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## Grant Fondo (10 Oct 2018)

For me its those concave mirrors you get next to the bearded lady. Bloody inconsiderate!


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## si_c (10 Oct 2018)

Alan O said:


> The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism is American - nothing to do with us. We binge our own way.


Health researchers in the UK usually define binge drinking as the consumption of 6 or more units in one session, and whilst people tend to have different tolerances for alcohol this is a good guideline figure. Drinking more than 14 units in a week is considered the level at which alcohol related harms become more problematic.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2018)

Indeed, 14 pints is the region of 30 units, depending on strength, pint of weak bitter might be 2 units, but a strong lager or craft is more like 3.


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## vickster (10 Oct 2018)

si_c said:


> Health researchers in the UK usually define binge drinking as the consumption of 6 or more units in one session, and whilst people tend to have different tolerances for alcohol this is a good guideline figure. Drinking more than 14 units in a week is considered the level at which alcohol related harms become more problematic.


Here's the NHS take/advice

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/binge-drinking-effects/


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## Freelanderuk (10 Oct 2018)

Thank you all for your concern

But in my case binge drinking ( if that's what you want to call it ) doesn't make me fat over eating does


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## vickster (10 Oct 2018)

Freelanderuk said:


> Thank you all for your concern
> 
> But in my case binge drinking ( if that's what you want to call it ) doesn't make me fat over eating does



It may not do, but it can be damaging to your internal organs. Might be worth seeing your GP for liver function tests if you've been doing this for a long time (obesity can also damage the liver so if you were very overweight for a long time, it may have had an effect).

Being fat is one way to damage your health, but there are plenty of others, high alcohol consumption included


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## Truth (10 Oct 2018)

I drink about the same as you Freelander and I would say its considerably less than most people (honest ones anyway) while we probably do a LOT more exercise than most.
Health guidelines are exactly that..... a guideline. I had my health MOT a few weeks back (I am 49) and the nurse was very happy with me other than my fruit intake ! 
I am not being argumentative here, just expressing my opinion


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2018)

Freelanderuk said:


> Thank you all for your concern
> 
> But in my case binge drinking ( if that's what you want to call it ) doesn't make me fat over eating does


It absolutely does add to your calorie intake, and it's simply nonsense to suggest that does not contribute to making you fat. Weight gain is about the total of your calorific intake, and it's plain denial if you pretend (to yourself, as nobody else is listening) that excessive alcohol intake does not contribute.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you can either face the truth or continue to delude yourself.


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## si_c (10 Oct 2018)

Truth said:


> I drink about the same as you Freelander and I would say its considerably less than most people (honest ones anyway) while we probably do a LOT more exercise than most.
> Health guidelines are exactly that..... a guideline. I had my health MOT a few weeks back (I am 49) and the nurse was very happy with me other than my fruit intake !
> I am not being argumentative here, just expressing my opinion


In the case of alcohol the guidelines are far higher than the clinical evidence would suggest is actually a good intake level, and are more about trying to identify a realistic target for consumption. In terms of increased risk of health problems related to alcohol, there is no intake level which is considered safe or good.

I'm glad that your recent health check came back positive, however one thing about alcohol consumption and related illness is that the damage is cumulative over time, for example damage to your liver occurs over time with the organ continuing to function normally until all of a sudden it doesn't. The damage can be picked up using an ultrasound, but this is rarely done.

Edited to add: I don't want to sound like a killjoy, like most people I enjoy a drink, in my case I'm particularly partial to a good triple hopped summer ale. However it is worth being aware of the risks of drinking, even if you are comfortable with it.


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2018)

si_c said:


> I'm glad that your recent health check came back positive, however one thing about alcohol consumption and related illness is that the damage is cumulative over time, for example damage to your liver occurs over time with the organ continuing to function normally until all of a sudden it doesn't. The damage can be picked up using an ultrasound, but this is rarely done.


Yes, a mistake a lot of people make is assuming that a standard blood test that comes back within normal limits means they're fine. The standard blood test that GPs do measures liver enzyme levels (which are related to alcohol intake), but that is extremely short term and indicates how much alcohol you have been consuming within the previous few weeks. It does not show long-term liver damage.

I saw one of those fly-on-the-wall health documentaries the other day and it featured a bloke (who looked in his 50s) with a nose that looked like a lighthouse at night, and he reckoned he'd been drinking 6-7 pints a day since he was 18. His regular blood tests were fine, but the doc (not unreasonably) suggested his liver was close to calling it a day and suggested further tests.


----------



## Trevrev (10 Oct 2018)

Beer makes me fat. 
I stopped for six months and got myself a wicked little six pack! ( Not a six pack of beer!!  )


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## Truth (10 Oct 2018)

Alan O said:


> Yes, a mistake a lot of people make is assuming that a standard blood test that comes back within normal limits means they're fine. The standard blood test that GPs do measures liver enzyme levels (which are related to alcohol intake), but that is extremely short term and indicates how much alcohol you have been consuming within the previous few weeks. It does not show long-term liver damage.
> 
> I saw one of those fly-on-the-wall health documentaries the other day and it featured a bloke (who looked in his 50s) with a nose that looked like a lighthouse at night, and he reckoned he'd been drinking 6-7 pints a day since he was 18. His regular blood tests were fine, but the doc (not unreasonably) suggested his liver was close to calling it a day and suggested further tests.


Thats 50 pints a week which I agree is stupidly high.
I am aware of the risks of alcohol and drugs and smoking and cycling and stepping out of the front door but life would be boring without some risk......


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2018)

Truth said:


> I am aware of the risks of alcohol and drugs and smoking and cycling and stepping out of the front door but life would be boring without some risk......


Yes, of course, it's up to every individual to assess the risks for themselves. But my point is just that those _denying_ the risks are doing nothing more than deluding themselves.


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## Freelanderuk (10 Oct 2018)

If I was drinking every day to excess yes I would gain weight ,there is no doubt about it , with what I have at a weekend and the calories I am eating I am not gaining weight ,I am riding 20 miles plus nearly every day ,walk 2 10 mile walks and other activities I do so I burn the calories off ,john smiths has 153 calories in a pint so if I have 10 over the weekend that's 1530 which is less than my day allowance of calories, 

Cheers


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## Alan O (10 Oct 2018)

Freelanderuk said:


> john smiths has 153 calories in a pint so if I have 10 over the weekend that's 1530 which is less than my day allowance of calories,
> Cheers


And if you didn't drink it you'd probably lose around 1.5kg per month (based on average nutritional requirements).


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## Freelanderuk (10 Oct 2018)

Getting to my goal weight now so only loosing .5kg a week now


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## pjd57 (10 Oct 2018)

Nothing these days seems to get me much above 10 stones.

I sat just under 11 until I decided to stop using my car , then eventually sold it.

Went down to 10 within a few months.
I've tried eating more , but it's simply more in, more out.

I guess my body is happy at 10.


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## MikeG (10 Oct 2018)

Truth said:


> I drink about the same as you Freelander and I would say its considerably less than most people (honest ones anyway)............



Careful , because there will be actual statistics on this. Careful, also, to not call people liars simply because they report less drinking than you. I mean, you aren't going to call me a liar for saying I drink less than a glass of wine a month, are you?


----------



## fossyant (10 Oct 2018)

Katherine said:


> How horrid for you.
> Have you tried a tiny bit of vasaline just in front of your nostrils.
> Also, what about a mini fan to waft the smells away .



It's OK for now - got the weight back down, but my diet isn't good (shocking compared to before the drugs). Fruit OK, simple food like no sugar porridge etc fine, lots of semi skinned milk, but not really enjoying food.

Co-op's 55p Tomatoe and 4 been soup is excellent - low sugar and salt and its nice - I have it every day... which isn't good for choice, but I will eat it. 

Cooked tea tonight for the family, there you go, and went out for cat food for the pride (we have 4 now).

Off to the Docs next week, as it's been going on 4 months.


----------



## fossyant (10 Oct 2018)

Salty seadog said:


> Yeah, I saw that,
> 
> *What’s The Most Important Piece of Bike Safety Equipment?*
> Bike helmets reduce head injury by 85%!
> ...



Brakes that work !!! 100% the best bit of kit. Fark anything else.


----------



## fossyant (10 Oct 2018)

I had a colleague that I work with alot usually, said, 'have you lost a load of weight' - he's been overseas a fair bit but we spend a fair amount of time working together usually, but not the last couple of months. I said 'yes' but I haven't been trying. I could sell a load on the black market, but unfortunately, the side effects are horrible and you have to work through them that takes a few months, then you notice the weight loss, then you are back to the doctors to stop it as you don't enjoy food.

I'm just about holding my pre broken back weight now, but it' been tricky - soup and a 'half baton' of bread at lunch - got the carbs... can eat it... it's a shoot diet though.


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## Salty seadog (10 Oct 2018)

fossyant said:


> Brakes that work !!! 100% the best bit of kit. Fark anything else.



Yep, someone maybe had an agenda with that bit of prose


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## Truth (10 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> Careful , because there will be actual statistics on this. Careful, also, to not call people liars simply because they report less drinking than you. I mean, you aren't going to call me a liar for saying I drink less than a glass of wine a month, are you?


I was actually referring to friends I drink with at weekends round for round with and they insist they only drink as much as me when I criticise them.....yes I criticise people for drinking too much ! The strange think is they go out before me and leave after me so I am not sure of their maths  .


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## derrick (11 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5406936, member: 9609"]I would have thought it quite normal for a young man too, I would have pored 6 or 7 pints down my neck every fri / sat night for most of my life + a couple most nights during the week. Be surprised if it has done me any harm ?
don't bother much now at all 2 or 3 pints a week max now - it was one of my big cut backs when I retired, in any case since hitting 50 drink seems to give me a bit of a hang-over and I can't be bothered with that[/QUOTE]
At 66 i still get to the pub 3 or 4 times a week, during the week normally 4 pints in a couple of hours, weekend session can be between 5 to 7 pints, Have never really suffered hangovers,


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## derrick (13 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Here's the NHS take/advice
> 
> https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/binge-drinking-effects/


Drinking too much, too quickly on a single occasion can increase your risk of:


accidents resulting in injury, causing death in some cases
misjudging risky situations
*losing self-control, like having unprotected sex*
*I should be so lucky*


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## derrick (13 Oct 2018)

Just got back from a binge


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## Milzy (13 Oct 2018)

Look at durianrider, high sugar diet & so very lean because of his activity levels. Vegan for the win.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

derrick said:


> At 66 i still get to the pub 3 or 4 times a week, during the week normally 4 pints in a couple of hours, weekend session can be between 5 to 7 pints, Have never really suffered hangovers,



When I was a youngster I was always on the lash - and I still used to turn up for work in the morning if I was on overtime at the weekend. My hangover tolerance was higher then than it is now though - I still drink several times a week but limit myself to no more than 3/4 pints max per session. Partly this is to avoid putting on weight and partly because if I go over 3/4 pint average sessions then sometimes I feel a bit below par the next day. My body is telling me the max amount it can cope with without making me feel rough, so I tend to stick to it. I also find certain beers are worse for hangovers than others, even for the same strength. Fullers London Pride particularly doesn't agree with me so I avoid it. Oddly, ESB is OK even though it's stronger!

I really can't be bothered with all the nanny state health fascists who are incessantly lecturing everyone about what they eat and drink. They can all p*** off and mind their own business as far as I'm concerned. The guidelines are a load of cobblers and have no credibility or scientific basis. Until recently they recommended men not exceeding 21-28 units a week and women not exceeding 14-21 units. Those limits were realistic and took into account the different sizes of men and women. Now it's 14 units for everybody, despite the fact that men are on average quite a bit bigger than women and are better at processing alcohol anyway. Obviously some rabbit-food eating Guardian reading do-gooder has plucked the 14 unit figure out of thin air and decided that's what the masses should stick to.

[QUOTE 5407183, member: 9609"] stopped at a pub for a quick beer and at the table next to us there was 5 or 6 youngsters (early 20s) and I think they were all on soft drinks - I do worry about this generation. Newcastle as well ??????[/QUOTE]

Don't you believe it. Today's youngsters may not tend to down pint after pint in the way we do, but trust me they still hit the booze. They are drinking spirits mixed into fruit juice drinks instead. And a lot are drinking Gin. When I was that age only your mum or aunty used to drink gin, now the youngsters are necking it in large quantities instead of beer.


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## Dan B (14 Oct 2018)

"Calories in minus calories out makes you fat" is as true and as helpful as saying "flying the plane downwards into the ground made it crash". Yes, obviously, but you'd have a very short career as an air accident investigator if your reports all consisted of " the pilot should just have maintained level flight"


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## si_c (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> When I was a youngster I was always on the lash - and I still used to turn up for work in the morning if I was on overtime at the weekend. My hangover tolerance was higher then than it is now though - I still drink several times a week but limit myself to no more than 3/4 pints max per session. Partly this is to avoid putting on weight and partly because if I go over 3/4 pint average sessions then sometimes I feel a bit below par the next day. My body is telling me the max amount it can cope with without making me feel rough, so I tend to stick to it. I also find certain beers are worse for hangovers than others, even for the same strength. Fullers London Pride particularly doesn't agree with me so I avoid it. Oddly, ESB is OK even though it's stronger!
> 
> I really can't be bothered with all the nanny state health fascists who are incessantly lecturing everyone about what they eat and drink. They can all p*** off and mind their own business as far as I'm concerned. The guidelines are a load of cobblers and have no credibility or scientific basis. Until recently they recommended men not exceeding 21-28 units a week and women not exceeding 14-21 units. Those limits were realistic and took into account the different sizes of men and women. Now it's 14 units for everybody, despite the fact that men are on average quite a bit bigger than women and are better at processing alcohol anyway. Obviously some rabbit-food eating Guardian reading do-gooder has plucked the 14 unit figure out of thin air and decided that's what the masses should stick to.
> 
> ...


And that Ladies and Gentlemen is the rant of someone who has absolutely no idea about what they are talking.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

I've never claimed that monster drinking sessions were good for you, but most of us have done it to a greater or lesser extent in our younger days. A lot of it is linked to young male oriented activities such as following sport, especially football. I've drunk at my current more restrained levels for a lot of years now and I don't suffer any ill effects from it.
As you get older the sort of over indulgence you used to just shrug off, makes you feel rough for a whole day, so you tone it down to a level at which you enjoy the social side without the hangovers. Each of us has an individual tolerance depending on our physical size and how efficiently our body can process the alcohol.


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## MikeG (14 Oct 2018)

Dan B said:


> "Calories in minus calories out makes you fat" is as true and as helpful as saying "flying the plane downwards into the ground made it crash". Yes, obviously, but you'd have a very short career as an air accident investigator if your reports all consisted of " the pilot should just have maintained level flight"



I disagree. The reason people have to keep re-stating the obvious is that there are millions of people who will argue otherwise. "Oh, it's just my genetics". "It's my metabolism". Blah, blah......there are thousands of excuses that people make as to why this absolute basic fundamental of the issue doesn't apply to them. Well, here's the news: this applies to everyone. It's physics, and nothing, but nothing, can subvert the basic laws of physics. To take your analogy, lots of people seem to think they can push the joystick forward as far as it will go and NOT fly into the ground.


----------



## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> .....there are thousands of excuses that people make as to why this absolute basic fundamental of the issue doesn't apply to them. Well, here's the news: this applies to everyone. It's physics, and nothing, but nothing, can subvert the basic laws of physics.



It's far easier to blame your size on something, anything else, rather than face the truth that most people who are big fat lumps of lard are that way purely because they eat and drink the calorie intake of someone who does a hard physical job and is very active, but all they do themselves is sit behind a desk all day and drive everywhere. If you don't burn 3,000+ calories a day, you can't expect to consume 3,000+ calories a day without putting on weight. Your body either burns it or it stores it, it doesn't magically disappear into thin air.


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## vickster (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> It's far easier to blame your size on something, anything else, rather than face the truth that most people who are big fat lumps of lard are that way purely because they eat and drink the calorie intake of someone who does a hard physical job and is very active, but all they do themselves is sit behind a desk all day and drive everywhere. If you don't burn 3,000+ calories a day, you can't expect to consume 3,000+ calories a day without putting on weight. Your body either burns it or it stores it, it doesn't magically disappear into thin air.


Have you heard of basal metabolic rate? Just continuing to live actually requires calories to be burnt

In case you haven't...

*Basal metabolic rate* (*BMR*) is the *rate* of energy expenditure per unit time by endothermic animals at rest. ... *Metabolism* comprises the processes that the body needs to function. *Basal metabolic rate* is the amount of energy per unit time that a person needs to keep the body functioning at rest.


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## Alan O (14 Oct 2018)

Dan B said:


> "Calories in minus calories out makes you fat" is as true and as helpful as saying "flying the plane downwards into the ground made it crash". Yes, obviously, but...


I agree, of course, and for many the hard part is working out how to get your calories in less than your calories out (without feeling constantly hungry)... so for the overweight people who know it, repeating it to them is not helpful.

But, as MikeG points out, there's a surprising number of people who either don't understand the simple fact, or who refuse to accept it. For many I think it's some form of denialism, but there do seem to be plenty who really do seem to think they can break the law of conservation of energy.


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## MikeG (14 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Have you heard of basal metabolic rate? Just continuing to live actually requires calories to be burnt
> 
> In case you haven't...
> 
> *Basal metabolic rate* (*BMR*) is the *rate* of energy expenditure per unit time by endothermic animals at rest. ... *Metabolism* comprises the processes that the body needs to function. *Basal metabolic rate* is the amount of energy per unit time that a person needs to keep the body functioning at rest.



Does that alter or contradict anything I wrote?


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## vickster (14 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> Does that alter or contradict anything I wrote?


I wasn't replying to you 

But to this ...
If you don't burn 3,000+ calories a day, you can't expect to consume 3,000+ calories a day without putting on weight. Your body either burns it or it stores it, it doesn't magically disappear into thin air.


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Oct 2018)

I'm waiting for people to realise that fat loss is exhaled


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## Crackle (14 Oct 2018)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'm waiting for people to realise that fat loss is exhaled


Especially after 10 pints!


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5410489, member: 9609"] getting fit seems to greatly increase metabolic rate that sort of means you can et through a lot more calories whilst doing very little.

resting muscle uses something like 4x the energy than resting fat ?  (not quite sure what non resting fat is)[/QUOTE]

Take two blokes, both weigh 16 stone. One does a lot of physical work or weight training and is built like a brick outhouse. The other one does a sedentary job and is merely very fat. The muscular bloke has more active body tissue that has to be maintained and supplied with nutrients 24/7 to keep him going, therefore he can get away with eating and drinking a lot more food & beer than the fat but weak bloke who sits in a chair pushing buttons all day.
When I was a kid, there might be one fat kid in the class, who would tend to get a lot of ribbing for it. Now, half of them are like it - because they sit around staring at screens not running about burning off the energy. We used to eat just as much crap as today's kids do, but we were more active.


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## Crackle (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> When I was a kid, there might be one fat kid in the class, who would tend to get a lot of ribbing for it. Now, half of them are like it - because they sit around staring at screens not running about burning off the energy. We used to eat just as much crap as today's kids do, but we were more active


There's some truth in what you say but obesity is linked to deprivation where it's twice as common and there's also a link to today's highly processed calorie dense, nutrient poor foods. In other words, there's more than one factor at play.


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## Alan O (14 Oct 2018)

T.M.H.N.E.T said:


> I'm waiting for people to realise that fat loss is exhaled


Don't hold your breath, or you'll get fat!


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

Crackle said:


> There's some truth in what you say but obesity is linked to deprivation where it's twice as common and there's also a link to today's highly processed calorie dense, nutrient poor foods. In other words, there's more than one factor at play.



I'm not sure I entirely buy this "poverty = obesity" argument. It suits a certain political agenda and has been seized upon as a political football. I was a council estate boy who had a relatively poor upbringing and I've never been really fat. The other kids I went to school with mainly came from the same immediate area and were also mostly working class council estate kids. They weren't generally fat either. 
People have got a lot more lazy in the years since I was a schoolkid, and the biggest change has been amongst the working classes - who have much higher car ownership and tend to do less physical jobs now. I know adults who wont go half a mile without driving, getting the bus, or calling an Uber car. They aren't exactly setting a good example to their kids, they are saying "being lazy is normal, being fat is normal"


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## Crackle (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not sure I entirely buy this "poverty = obesity" argument. It suits a certain political agenda and has been seized upon as a political football. I was a council estate boy who had a relatively poor upbringing and I've never been really fat. The other kids I went to school with mainly came from the same immediate area and were also mostly working class council estate kids. They weren't generally fat either.
> People have got a lot more lazy in the years since I was a schoolkid, and the biggest change has been amongst the working classes - who have much higher car ownership and tend to do less physical jobs now. I know adults who wont go half a mile without driving, getting the bus, or calling an Uber car. They aren't exactly setting a good example to their kids, they are saying "being lazy is normal, being fat is normal"


Well that's why I mentioned foods. There's quite a lot of evidence that sugar and trans fats have a much higher impact on weight and health than inactivity and there's a lot of them in cheap processed foods. Not that inactivity isn't a factor. The world changes though, patterns of living change, I don't think the solution is to just imply people are lazy, you have to change peoples habits and that's done through education about food and exercise and the political will to make food production better. So in that sense it's political.


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## MikeG (14 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> I wasn't replying to you
> 
> But to this ...
> If you don't burn 3,000+ calories a day, you can't expect to consume 3,000+ calories a day without putting on weight. Your body either burns it or it stores it, it doesn't magically disappear into thin air.



Basal metabolic rate is only a measure of how quickly a person burns through calories at rest. It's still burning calories. Therefore, it is "calories out", and absolutely nothing you have said contradicts what either SkipdiverJohn or I said.


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## SkipdiverJohn (14 Oct 2018)

Politicians trying to change people's behaviour in a top-down, nanny-state, "we know better than you" manner is doomed to result in a backlash. Working class people like me are the absolute last people who will tolerate being lectured down to by "experts" on how much fat & sugar we should be allowed to have in our food, how much beer we should be limited to every week, or any other aspect of how we live.
All the chattering classes and their political wings are still trying to figure out two years on why millions of ordinary working people like myself voted for Brexit, despite all the "experts" telling us how much better it would be for us to stay in the EU and that instant armageddon would befall us if we dared to vote Out.. They just don't get it; we really don't like being told what to eat, what to drink, what to think, what to do. Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.


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## Crackle (14 Oct 2018)

And on that note, I'm going to fark off out and buy some cake before Brexit makes it too expensive!


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (14 Oct 2018)

Crackle said:


> And on that note, I'm going to fark off out and buy some cake before Brexit makes it too expensive!


Be over in 20 mins( before I need a permit, 6 weeks in quarantine and an armed escort)


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## MikeG (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> ........ Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.



Twaddle. Do you go to your doctor when you're ill? Do you go to a scientist when you want to know something about the world around you? Do you go to an architect when you want a building designed? Do you take your pet to a vet when it's ill? Do you get an electrician to sort your wiring out? Do you take your legal dispute to a solicitor?

Right, so don't say stupid things about experts.


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## FishFright (14 Oct 2018)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Politicians trying to change people's behaviour in a top-down, nanny-state, "we know better than you" manner is doomed to result in a backlash. Working class people like me are the absolute last people who will tolerate being lectured down to by "experts" on how much fat & sugar we should be allowed to have in our food, how much beer we should be limited to every week, or any other aspect of how we live.
> All the chattering classes and their political wings are still trying to figure out two years on why millions of ordinary working people like myself voted for Brexit, despite all the "experts" telling us how much better it would be for us to stay in the EU and that instant armageddon would befall us if we dared to vote Out.. They just don't get it; we really don't like being told what to eat, what to drink, what to think, what to do. Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.



Listen to this man people , then make sure you think the opposite


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## presta (14 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> Right, so don't say stupid things about experts.



Any of the anti-science brigade who genuinely believe what they peddle are perfectly at liberty to go and live like mediaeval peasant farmers. The reason they don't, by and large, is that they know which side their bread is buttered on.


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## Edwardoka (14 Oct 2018)

presta said:


> Any of the anti-science brigade who genuinely believe what they peddle are perfectly at liberty to go and live like mediaeval peasant farmers. The reason they don't, by and large, is that they know which side their bread is buttered on.


Bread? BREAD?! There's no bread left. The nanny state experts say that bread is bad for you so I ate ALL of the bread to own the libs also I can't feel my feet any more someone should do something to help me


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## Dan B (14 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> Basal metabolic rate is only a measure of how quickly a person burns through calories at rest. It's still burning calories. Therefore, it is "calories out", and absolutely nothing you have said contradicts what either SkipdiverJohn or I said.


Er... 

First you said that people who claim "my metabolism makes me fat" are jsut making excuses and ignoring the physics, now you're saying that basal metabolic rate is factored into "calories out" - i.e. that it's _part_ of the physics.

To stretch the air crash analogy further than it really admits being stretched, this is the airline blaming the pilot for not pulling back far enough when the stewards and baggage handlers have decided to seat all the passengers and stow all the luggage in the front ten rows.

(I'm hypothyroid. I weigh about a stone more when I'm off my thyroid replacement hormone than when I'm taking it, with little or no difference either to food or exercise regime in either case. And for the record I'm not making excuses for being overweight, because I'm not overweight)


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## MikeG (15 Oct 2018)

Nevermind.


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## Alan O (15 Oct 2018)

Dan B said:


> ...people who claim "my metabolism makes me fat" are just making excuses and ignoring the physics...


I've meant to comment on this, based on something I read about some years ago, but I can't find any details. So I'll go on what I remember of it (and on my own limited knowledge).

Some relevant facts (facts as far as I understand them, anyway):

Basal metabolic rate varies.
Different tissues have different basal metabolic rates.
Muscle has a basal metabolic rate several times higher than that of fat (I've seen various estimates).
Various conditions and medications can affect metabolic rates (and can affect weight in other ways, like affecting fluid retention).

The investigation aimed to check the claim, sometimes made by overweight people, that they're fat because they have a slower metabolic rate than other people. What they did was isolate a number of people over a range of BMI measures, who had no known medical conditions and were on no medications that should affect their metabolism.

They measured (as accurately as they could) the total daily kcals in and kcals out for each individual, and had them remain pretty much inactive for a period (I can't remember how long). Food intake was easily controlled, and measuring remaining kcals in excrement was done (I've no idea how). They also measured the total energy actually burned through metabolism - I can't remember how, but I do remember the subjects being in sealed rooms, so maybe they measured CO2 production or something, or maybe they could do calorimetry style heat transfer measurements.

I've no idea what the sample size was or how statistically significant it was, but the main result I remember was that there was no significant variation in the metabolic rates of the subjects outside that expected from their weights and fat percentages. Fatter people had higher total metabolic rates than thinner ones, but completely in line with their weight. They had lower per-kg metabolic rates, but again in line with their higher fat percentage. The evidence suggested that a lower per-kg metabolic rate is caused by having more fat, rather than being the cause of it.

Anyway, my memory might be flawed (and is certainly incomplete), but I thought that was worth sharing.


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## The Jogger (15 Oct 2018)

Milzy said:


> I swear by a high carb low fat vegan diet with no oils. Apparently Peter Sagan is onboard with that now.


I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.


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## Alan O (15 Oct 2018)

The Jogger said:


> I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.


And a friend of mine has been on a very low-fat vegan diet for years (inspired by Dr Esselstyn), and these days he runs around 2,500 miles per year (including several marathons) and is fitter than most people half his age.

I reckon the (not so) secret is to find a reasonably healthy diet _that suits you_ and is one that enables you to keep the kcal balance right, and you'll probably do just fine.


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## PK99 (15 Oct 2018)

Alan O said:


> I reckon the (not so) secret is to find a reasonably healthy diet _that suits you_ and is one that enables you to keep the kcal balance right, and you'll probably do just fine.



Nail meet head!

Looking at various diets all seem to work by reducing calorie intake & or increasing activity.

MrsPK and I found that 5:2 worked for us - it reduced total calorie intake in already active lives.
D2 can't stand feeling hungry so has lost many pounds by shifting iron in the gym and sensible eating to refuel.


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## Milzy (15 Oct 2018)

The Jogger said:


> I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.


It would kill me. My work is very physical and so is my play. Balanced works for me well so I get the enjoyment.


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## david k (28 Oct 2018)

MikeG said:


> I disagree. The reason people have to keep re-stating the obvious is that there are millions of people who will argue otherwise. "Oh, it's just my genetics". "It's my metabolism". Blah, blah......there are thousands of excuses that people make as to why this absolute basic fundamental of the issue doesn't apply to them. Well, here's the news: this applies to everyone. It's physics, and nothing, but nothing, can subvert the basic laws of physics. To take your analogy, lots of people seem to think they can push the joystick forward as far as it will go and NOT fly into the ground.



Yes excuses can be annoying, assuming the reason they are overweight is that their body must be different than someone else's. True story, my mother in law (this isn't the start of a 70s joke BTW) said she cannot lose weight due to her metabolism whilst taking a bite of a large cream cake, which she seems to live off, she was deadly serious 

There are however some more details that have affects, thyroid problems have a major impact, also the foods you eat, I try to consider nutritious foods rather than low calorie and when I do that my weight is healthier


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## david k (28 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5411233, member: 9609"]The problem with the experts that tell us what food is good and bad for us is; they have contradicted themselves so many times over the years that you have to be forgiven if you cast doubt over any thing they say.[/QUOTE]
It's not the same person saying it


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