# Upgrading 6speed Brompton to new style shifters



## Mattl_89 (29 Aug 2020)

Hi guys,

I want to upgrade the old style shifters / brakes on a 6spd Brompton to the post 2017 integrated kind. Can this be done?


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## steveindenmark (29 Aug 2020)

I would not consider it an upgrade.


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## Tenkaykev (29 Aug 2020)

Mattl_89 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I want to upgrade the old style shifters / brakes on a 6spd Brompton to the post 2017 integrated kind. Can this be done?


I've just replaced the "Rabbit Ears" 3 speed shifter on my 2015 Brompton with the Sturmy Archer indexed shifter

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/3-speed-sturmey-archer-sls30t-thumbshifter-hsj962/


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## berlinonaut (29 Aug 2020)

Mattl_89 said:


> I want to upgrade the old style shifters / brakes on a 6spd Brompton to the post 2017 integrated kind. Can this be done?


Depends. No issue on S- or P-bars. With the older style M-bars it is doable but as there is formally too little space you have more or less one single possible position for brake handles and shifters and still a little less space for the grips than before. So it depends from your bars to a degree. Be aware that with the six-speed you'll need the newer dogleg for the derailleur as well. It is not expensive but easily forgotten if you only look at the shifters and only regonized when you are in the process. Overall with new brake handles, new shifters, new cables an a new dogleg still a relatively expensive exercise.


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## berlinonaut (29 Aug 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> I would not consider it an upgrade.


This was not the question but as you seem to have a strong opinion: Why?


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## coffeehound (31 Aug 2020)

berlinonaut said:


> This was not the question but as you seem to have a strong opinion: Why?



Not steveindenmark, but there have been reports of shifting problems in high ambient temperatures, apparently due to plastics expanding. There's a YouTube video where a guy takes the shifter apart and abrades some parts to increase the clearances.


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## Tenkaykev (31 Aug 2020)

coffeehound said:


> Not steveindenmark, but there have been reports of shifting problems in high ambient temperatures, apparently due to plastics expanding. There's a YouTube video where a guy takes the shifter apart and abrades some parts to increase the clearances.



I did the same with Mrs Tenkays Brompton when the shifter seemed to bind from time to time. Used some superfine wet and dry and not been a problem since.


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## berlinonaut (31 Aug 2020)

coffeehound said:


> Not steveindenmark, but there have been reports of shifting problems in high ambient temperatures, apparently due to plastics expanding. There's a YouTube video where a guy takes the shifter apart and abrades some parts to increase the clearances.


This is the trouble with reports on the internet. Yes there have been a handful issues reported and there has been one person being *very* vocal about that (but possibly less competent regarding the problem and the Brompton in general). A bunch of shifters have been exchanged over the last 3,5 years since their invention. 

On the other hand: The new shifters have been invented at the beginning of 2017. Since then, roughly 200.000 Bromptons have been produced, all equipped with the new shifters apart from the few single speeds. What we see is that the internet and forums as part of it often are a giant echo chamber - people repeating what they have read or heard "somewhere on the internet" but w/o relating to own experience or bringing what they read in relation to production numbers. With 200k samples out there the number of problem reports is minimal. I'd assume that Brompton had a bad batch of shifters or some variability in production relatively early after their invention. These shifters were and are causing problems and these problems are vastly overcommunicated in forums. What do you think: If the shifters were all supposed to fail and 200k samples are out there: How many problem reports would you recognize?


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## u_i (1 Sep 2020)

Well, putting the ridiculous YouTube video aside, I personally find the new dogleg mediocre, unjustifiably difficult to work with and trouble prone under more challenging conditions in the surrounding, of mud, dust or snow. Given various challenges of folding and folded size, risky compromises must be sometimes adopted but fail to see any compelling reason for such a mediocre solution. I thought I was upgrading putting the new dogleg on my older Brompton, but after few months of struggle I kicked it off for good and life improved .


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## coffeehound (4 Sep 2020)

u_i said:


> I thought I was upgrading putting the new dogleg on my older Brompton, but after few months of struggle I kicked it off for good and life improved .



Can I ask what you put in its place, u_i ? I see some far-East sellers have a Ti spring for this -- do you think that would help?


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## u_i (5 Sep 2020)

coffeehound said:


> Can I ask what you put in its place, u_i ? I see some far-East sellers have a Ti spring for this -- do you think that would help?



From different solutions I found the following replacement piece to be optimal, when going with shift cable attachment on the pusher side:





You get it on AliExpress, e.g. here. There is a bolt there that grabs the end of a shifter cable on the pusher side. It is not ideal, as it difficult to thread the end of the shifter cable through. However, I found that you can unscrew the tube sticking out from this piece and drill the inside a bit. The end of a drill is conical and it makes a conical cavity iside, so when you push the cable in through the tube, it easily finds the hole that it is supposed to go into, for securing with a bolt.

Other solutions include bolts that replace one in the original Brompton piece. There is a similar problem there with threading of the shifter cable that can be solved similarly. However all those screws stick out more and the cable too, allowing for an interference with chain. The piece above is optimal in terms of compactness.


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## paulfacer (13 Nov 2020)

Tenkaykev said:


> I've just replaced the "Rabbit Ears" 3 speed shifter on my 2015 Brompton with the Sturmy Archer indexed shifter
> 
> https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/3-speed-sturmey-archer-sls30t-thumbshifter-hsj962/



Hi - Having made the mistake myself of having "upgraded" to the new Brompton shifters, I'm about to do what you've done and switch the 3-speed shifter to the Sturmy Archer thumbshifter. How did you find the conversion? Were you able to simply swap out the shifter and re-use the cable or do you need to replace it? Thanks!


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## berlinonaut (13 Nov 2020)

paulfacer said:


> Hi - Having made the mistake myself of having "upgraded" to the new Brompton shifters, I'm about to do what you've done and switch the 3-speed shifter to the Sturmy Archer thumbshifter. How did you find the conversion? Were you able to simply swap out the shifter and re-use the cable or do you need to replace it? Thanks!


I did this also with one of my Bromptons and it is very much straight forward. Coming from the old style shifters you would need a new cable, coming from the newer post-2017 ones you could in theory reuse the existing one. However - the S/A Thumbshifter comes with a new inner cable as part of the package, so you can simply use that as it fits the shifter perfectly.


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## Tenkaykev (13 Nov 2020)

I did this a couple of months ago on my 2015 M6L. Swapped the Rabbit ear shifter for the Sturmey Archer indexed thumb shifter. As Berlinonaut says, the cable that comes with the SA fits perfectly. 
I pulled the old cable out of the sheath and slid the replacement down the outer and trimmed the excess off. 
I really like it, I'd like something similar for the derailleur. The thumb shifter is relatively inexpensive so it might be worth me having a play around as part of my lockdown therapy


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## Schwinnsta (13 Nov 2020)

I used the SunRace friction shifter like this one.


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## Gunk (13 Nov 2020)

Tenkaykev said:


> I've just replaced the "Rabbit Ears" 3 speed shifter on my 2015 Brompton with the Sturmy Archer indexed shifter
> 
> https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/3-speed-sturmey-archer-sls30t-thumbshifter-hsj962/



It’s a good upgrade, I’ve done the same with my Mk2


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## rogerzilla (4 Jul 2021)

I know this is an old thread but I've just changed my S3E to an S2E using the new style shifter and brake levers. A few things I found:

I agree with the posters above, the new cable anchor arrangement is sub-optimal. The old one wasn't great (I have it on an S6L) but the new one is worse, with sliding parts that will jam if dirty, and a clip-on part that likes to pop off if cable tension isn't quite to its liking. The brake cable housing can interfere with it, too.

The cable outer for the 2017+ S derailleur shifter is an inch too long and looks a right mess. Yes, it is the right one, I checked, and the cable is routed properly. I cut it down (and the inner by the same amount) and now it hangs and folds properly.

The shifter works ok. The huge advantage of the underbar design is that you can flip the bike upside down to fix a puncture, and not damage anything. 

The brake levers don't feel or work any better than the old ones, and make sure you grease the barrel nipple - there is no longer a swivelling clevis/stirrup. I suspect this saves money for the cheesy Brompton logos on the back of the lever.

Pros: can stand bike on its back for repairs, the integrated design gives room for bar ends and (almost) full-width grips on an S-type. This last point was quite a biggie for me.

Cons: nothing really works any better, and the new derailleur cable termination would make Heath Robinson proud.


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## Profpointy (4 Jul 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> I know this is an old thread but I've just changed my S3E to an S2E using the new style shifter and brake levers. A few things I found:
> 
> I agree with the posters above, the new cable anchor arrangement is sub-optimal. The old one wasn't great (I have it on an S6L) but the new one is worse, with sliding parts that will jam if dirty, and a clip-on part that likes to pop off if cable tension isn't quite to its liking. The brake cable housing can interfere with it, too.
> 
> ...



Thanks - useful to know as I had considered doing the same as horrid plastic shifter offended my eye. I shall put up with it after all


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## l4dva (5 Jul 2021)

Lockdown with Brompton CHPT3, Do it yourself installation of EE brakes, KCNC & DT Swiss Shifter - YouTube


I've seen these DT swizz shifters being used on line a few times - see video above. It looks like those shifters are actually for dropper seat posts but they seem to work as gear shifters too. They look like a nice upgrade, but I've never used myself so can't comment further.


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## berlinonaut (5 Jul 2021)

Profpointy said:


> Thanks - useful to know as I had considered doing the same as horrid plastic shifter offended my eye. I shall put up with it after all


Before deciding you should keep in mind that this is the opinion of _one_ single user (and one that seems in general hard to satisfy and loves to moan about everything Brompton does, no matter what they do ). There are other opinions and experiences as well that differ vastly from this...

Personally I consider the post 2013 brake levers a huge improvement (and would say that is true for most people) and have retrofitted them to most of my Bromptons. I also consider the new 2-speed shifter a massive optical improvement and a usage improvement as well. Along with the new dogleg it also makes it way more convenient and way more easy to fit a new gear cable (an utterly annoying job with the old dogleg and shifter). The construction of the new dog leg itself seems indeed a bit half baken - here on the continent we would probably say "a very British piece of engineering". Could have done better but is not worse than it's predecessor in my eyes but better, apart from the possibility to hook out of the rear frame which - in case of a shifting failure - is not obvious as a root cause and thus may lead to some head scratching in case of trouble. But once you are aware of it fixing is a 2 seconds job and it does not happen often - to me in almost four years it happened once, on a friend's bike who was asking me for support.


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## Profpointy (5 Jul 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> Before deciding you should keep in mind that this is the opinion of _one_ single user (and one that seems in general hard to satisfy and loves to moan about everything Brompton does, no matter what they do ). There are other opinions and experiences as well that differ vastly from this...
> 
> Personally I consider the post 2013 brake levers a huge improvement (and would say that is true for most people) and have retrofitted them to most of my Bromptons. I also consider the new 2-speed shifter a massive optical improvement and a usage improvement as well. Along with the new dogleg it also makes it way more convenient and way more easy to fit a new gear cable (an utterly annoying job with the old dogleg and shifter). The construction of the new dog leg itself seems indeed a bit half baken - here on the continent we would probably say "a very British piece of engineering". Could have done better but is not worse than it's predecessor in my eyes but better, apart from the possibility to hook out of the rear frame which - in case of a shifting failure - is not obvious as a root cause and thus may lead to some head scratching in case of trouble. But once you are aware of it fixing is a 2 seconds job and it does not happen often - to me in almost four years it happened once, on a friend's bike who was asking me for support.



To be fair the new brake levers, and indeed brakes are a huge improvement. Well, apart from the refusimg to release as yet (cable problem I think)


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## rogerzilla (5 Jul 2021)

You will need to cut an inch out of the brake cables (or buy a new cable set) if you change levers, especially if you don't have mudguards. The new levers hang a bit lower and the upturned curve of the front brake cable will miss the cable fender disc, rubbing on the front tyre in even slight turns.

The rear brake cable length is less critical, so you can leave it as long as it isn't worryingly close to the chainring.


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## u_i (5 Jul 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> The construction of the new dog leg itself seems indeed a bit half baken - here on the continent we would probably say "a very British piece of engineering". Could have done better but is not worse than it's predecessor in my eyes but better, apart from the possibility to hook out of the rear frame which - in case of a shifting failure - is not obvious as a root cause and thus may lead to some head scratching in case of trouble. But once you are aware of it fixing is a 2 seconds job and it does not happen often - to me in almost four years it happened once, on a friend's bike who was asking me for support.



I absolutely hate the new 'anchorage'. After months of trying to bake its other half, I gave up and trashed it, deciding that it cannot be fixed. I went to old one and combined it with the straightforward aftermarket dogleg that has a screw for grabbing the end of the cable, such as here. In the past it was possible to buy such a dogleg separately from the rest that I do not care about.


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## rogerzilla (5 Jul 2021)

Mine hasn't popped out since I shortened the cable a little. I think it was being pushed around the frame wire loop during folding.

I can see why Brompton redesigned it (changing a cable on the old type is fiddly, if logical), and they were constrained by the existing wire loop, but I'd like to think I could sketch out something better. Evidently the Chinese have, anyway.

By the way, the bell for the new levers is neat but almost inaudible. Not sure how that got through quality control. The old type actually worked.


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## u_i (5 Jul 2021)

rogerzilla said:


> Mine hasn't popped out since I shortened the cable a little. I think it was being pushed around the frame wire loop during folding.
> 
> I can see why Brompton redesigned it (changing a cable on the old type is fiddly, if logical), and they were constrained by the existing wire loop, but I'd like to think I could sketch out something better. Evidently the Chinese have, anyway.



Aside from the popping out, I had problems with the new anchorage getting stuck due to dirt, with the cable fraying there, etc. As to the Chinese designed products, they often struggle, to say it mildly. However, when you try enough many times, from time to time you can hit close to the jackpot. It was not a complete jackpot as I needed to take the Chinese dogleg apart and make the entrance into the hole where the cable end is secured conical, so that the cable end got in there right away fine.


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## ExBrit (16 Jul 2021)

coffeehound said:


> Not steveindenmark, but there have been reports of shifting problems in high ambient temperatures, apparently due to plastics expanding. There's a YouTube video where a guy takes the shifter apart and abrades some parts to increase the clearances.


I ride in Southern California and I've never had a problem with my shifters. It's regularly 90F here. Unless you ride in Hell (doubt there are any Brommies in Hell), I doubt you will have a problem.


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## berlinonaut (17 Jul 2021)

ExBrit said:


> Unless you ride in Hell (doubt there are any Brommies in Hell), I doubt you will have a problem.


Eagerly looking for the according review. Could sound like:

"review by *devil*:
_Bought a Brompton because it looked like a good torture. Went for the Black Edition as it perfectly fits our brand. Much to my disappointment the bike turned out not to be torturous at all and furthermore the shifters did not work well in out environment (we do have very high temperatures in hell, barely seen anywhere else, so acceptable that the the shifters are not optimized for our environment). Sold the bike on ebay and got a surprisingly high price for it. Would recommend the bike, but only for areas with temperatures below 200 degrees Celsius."
_


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## u_i (17 Jul 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> "review by *devil*:
> _Bought a Brompton because it looked like a good torture. Went for the Black Edition as it perfectly fits our brand. Much to my disappointment the bike turned out not to be torturous at all and furthermore the shifters did not work well in out environment (we do have very high temperatures in hell, barely seen anywhere else, so acceptable that the the shifters are not optimized for our environment). Sold the bike on ebay and got a surprisingly high price for it. Would recommend the bike, but only for areas with temperatures below 200 degrees Celsius."
> _



I can add an illustration from the testing site, fresh from the oven, i.e., last month. The Black Edition blended with the surrounding .


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## rogerzilla (17 Jul 2021)

I believe both Austria and Canada have a Hell, so there's a chance for someone to test it out. Kufstein in Austria also had a Cafe Hell by the river, ideal for your mid-ride cup of brimstone, but Google Maps suggests it's been renamed Inn Cafe.


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## ExBrit (19 Jul 2021)

berlinonaut said:


> Eagerly looking for the according review. Could sound like:
> 
> "review by *devil*:
> _Bought a Brompton because it looked like a good torture. Went for the Black Edition as it perfectly fits our brand. Much to my disappointment the bike turned out not to be torturous at all and furthermore the shifters did not work well in out environment (we do have very high temperatures in hell, barely seen anywhere else, so acceptable that the the shifters are not optimized for our environment). Sold the bike on ebay and got a surprisingly high price for it. Would recommend the bike, but only for areas with temperatures below 200 degrees Celsius."
> _


Dear Mr. Devil,
We're sorry to hear you had a problem with the shifters. While our saddles are certified hell-compliant, our shifters will tend to melt when in close proximity to molten lava, as will our tires. We're glad you were able to sell the bicycle. We're confident you will enjoy our bicycles when Hell freezes over.

Hugs and Kisses - Brompton support.


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## CaptainWheezy (20 Jul 2021)

For what it's worth, I'm in the UK and have had the problem with the shifter sticking. I had to dismantle the 3 speed one and run a fine file through one of the parts to free it up again. No 200 deg C temperatures in Chesterfield I can assure you!


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## berlinonaut (20 Jul 2021)

CaptainWheezy said:


> For what it's worth, I'm in the UK and have had the problem with the shifter sticking. I had to dismantle the 3 speed one and run a fine file through one of the parts to free it up again. No 200 deg C temperatures in Chesterfield I can assure you!


That's exactly the point. There _have_ been problems with the shifters but one can be pretty sure that they are _not_ related to temperature - in opposite to what the very vocal but also very incompetent youtuber claims and other people repeat like a giant echo chamber. The new shifters were invented at the beginning of 2017. Since then until today about 300.000 Bromptons have been made using them. So I am pretty sure only a fraction of them suffers from the problem, otherwise we would have heard about more cases and Brompton would have changed the shifters if a massive amount was affected, simply to safe money if not out of attitude.

If you are hit by the problem the first and easiest approach for a solution is simply to flood the shifter with silicone oil. In many cases this already solves the problem. In case that does not help more massive ways are appropriate like sanding the internals or simply exchanging the shifters on warranty if applicable. It would be interesting to know the age of the bikes affected to find out if it happens trough out production or if the cases are limited to a certain timeframe of production dates.


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## rogerzilla (22 Jul 2021)

My 2-speed one works ok but is rather unintuitive and unergonomic. Pushing the lever upwards for the small sprocket is just odd, and awkward because of its shape. Would have been better to make it push to change (in either direction), like a ballpoint pen.


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## Bromptonaut (5 Aug 2021)

Mrs B's Brompton has the indexed shifters integrated with the brake lever. The integration means that any adjustment to the brake lever also shifts the gear selectors. 

She's also found that riding in the dark it is not possible to check your gear by the simple expedient of a finger or thumb on the shifter.


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