# Cycling pros and gods I need your help



## Nb1 (6 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 

I'm new to this so a bit of background I'm currently going through a bit of turmoil and long story short my friend has very kindly donated his old old old road bike for commuting he said it needs some work doing to it.

The bike is a specialized allez sport compact he says it's a 2011 model. 

It has a shimano sora 3500 groupset which is totally screwed and needs replacing. Now the problem is I am flat out broke and unfortunately can't even afford to replace this groupset heartbreaking I know considering it's a Low end groupset but that's the situation.

So getting on to the question can anyone recommend the cheapest decent groupset I could get u I mean I don't even care if it doesn't have the shifters although there cool so it would be cool to keep these I don't mind if it's super old groupset like I say I will literally be biking around 25m for work a day for a while nothing competetive, it's a relatively flat route so I don't need like 30 gears. I just need to get this bike up and running for as cheap as possible ( bare in mind the sora was out of my range ) if anyone has anything for sale that might be of use let me know please and thank you in advance.


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## vickster (7 Jun 2019)

2011 really isn’t very old 

If your riding is flat or you’re fit, maybe you could convert to single speed?


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

To be honest the extra olds where aimed at the condition haha I have have seen a shimano tourney a070 6 piece group set which I could probably stretch for its £150 and than get it fitted. Do you think this is viable guessing it should be if converting to a single speed is? Thanks for your responce BTW


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## Ian H (7 Jun 2019)

Forget the term 'groupset'. Your bike is a selection of components, some of which might require maintenance or replacement. You need to check closely what is and what isn't working and why. 



vickster said:


> 2011 really isn’t very old
> 
> If your riding is flat or you’re fit, maybe you could convert to single speed?



It'll have vertical dropouts, so single-speed would be problematic.


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## swee'pea99 (7 Jun 2019)

As long as you can do the work, ebay is your friend. People are always upgrading and selling off the old for whatever they can get. Choose carefully and you could get some nice gear for a song. You don't have to buy 'a groupset' - you can pick up the bits you need bit by bit. Good luck.


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## Crackle (7 Jun 2019)

What's wrong with it, it might be cheaper and easier than you think, if we know, we can advise.


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

I did think about buying different bits honestly I think back derailleur is the only thing that needs replacing. My friend said the hanger sheered off while he was riding it was never the same when he replaced the hanger. I think he just wanted to upgrade his bike haha. I'm no expert but the rear derailleur looks bent to me and the chain seems too long

I was thinking to change both of these but for the chain and the derailleur it's like 40 pound but if this isn't the issue or and I end up replacing cassettes I might quickly be spending similar to what the shimano tourney set is costing


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

Crackle said:


> What's wrong with it, it might be cheaper and easier than you think, if we know, we can advise.


The rear derailleur looks visible bent I can take pictures tonight the gears don't change smoothly and it is constantly clicking when you do change I know this can be adjusted I have done work on normal mountain bikes and been successful but these road bike shifter gears are daunting they might be just as simple but I don't know where to start or weather to strip it down replace the derailleur and try to build it back up from there, at the moment it can't be ride so I guess I can't really make it much worse haha


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## vickster (7 Jun 2019)

Ian H said:


> Forget the term 'groupset'. Your bike is a selection of components, some of which might require maintenance or replacement. You need to check closely what is and what isn't working and why.
> 
> 
> 
> It'll have vertical dropouts, so single-speed would be problematic.


I still think it can be possible?


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## I like Skol (7 Jun 2019)

I'll bet there isn't a lot wrong with it that a good service won't sort. You would be amazed at what can be perfectly useable once cleaned, lubricated and adjusted correctly.

As has been said, 2011 isn't an old bike at all and Sora is good reliable stuff, even if it isn't as sexy and desirable as the more expensive kit.

Some better pictures and a list of faults will help us advise you on what might, or more likely might not, need replacing.


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## alicat (7 Jun 2019)

My newest bike was made in 2009 and I'm not planning on replacing it any time soon. Tell us what's wrong and we can help you figure out what needs fixing.


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

Yeah the bike looks super nice despite expected cosmetic damage tonight I'm going to take some good pictures and and we can diagnose it I'll be more than happy if it's just a case elbow grease and a new rear derailleur. Thanks every body so far for your input glad I've been deterred from buying the group set so far!!

I will upload pics at around 5pm


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## nickAKA (7 Jun 2019)

As above - a bit of tinkering will probably solve 90% of the issues, it looks complicated it isn't really - _once you have the required knowledge_ - so ask on here about specific issues, have a look on youtube and just see what you can achieve with next to no spend before you blow money on bits you probably don't need.


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## Ian H (7 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> I still think it can be possible?



Oh yes. You'd need a combination of chainring/rear sprocket sized to give a reasonably taut chain, or a chain-tensioner. Neither of these would be suitable for fixed-wheel. Or an eccentric rear hub (made by White Industries, I think) to allow tensioning.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jun 2019)

I have a pair of socks older than your bike. It isn't old.


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## ColinJ (7 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> If your riding is flat or you’re fit, maybe you could convert to single speed?





Ian H said:


> It'll have vertical dropouts, so single-speed would be problematic.





vickster said:


> I still think it can be possible?





Ian H said:


> Oh yes. You'd need a combination of chainring/rear sprocket sized to give a reasonably taut chain, or a chain-tensioner. Neither of these would be suitable for fixed-wheel. Or an eccentric rear hub (made by White Industries, I think) to allow tensioning.


I built a singlespeed bike with a (much older) Specialized Allez frame given to me by a friend. I chose a 52/19 ring/sprocket combination to get a good gear ratio for flat/undulating roads, but it is ok for longish climbs at 4-5% or even short ones of 8-10%. I did a 3 km climb including 0.5 km at 8% on it yesterday on a 161 km (imperial century) ride and it was fine. I have ridden thousands of kms on the bike and that experience tells me that it would be ideal for commuting anywhere where steep hills are not involved.

I fitted a Planet X 'Doofer' chain tensioner, available for less than £10. I used it as designed for a few rides but found on rough local roads that the tension arm bounced and the chain was coming off so I modified it to work without a spring*** and manually adjust it as the chain loosens with use.







*** I removed the spring, then added a large washer so the attaching bolt would tighten the arm up against the dropout to stop it moving. I also reversed the direction that the tension is applied, reasoning that the tensioner would be helping to wrap a loose chain round the sprocket rather than trying to peel it off! That has been the case, but the tensioner is a bit noisy in operation. I might try applying the tension in the other direction to see if it is still reliable, but quieter.

The chainline and alignment of the pulley wheel on the tensioner are critical. If they are right then the chain stays on and runs smoothly. If not, it will probably run rough for a few minutes and then fall off!


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jun 2019)

As above, need to know which bits are screwed and which aren't. 

I'd go for a clean up & lubricate, maybe replace the brake blocks, then ride it a bit and see what works and what doesn't. If the shifting works, or sort-of works, then it can probably be fixed with some or all of cleaning and lubricating, new cables, adjustment, a new hanger.


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## palinurus (7 Jun 2019)

Groupset? nah, usually at most cassette and chain might be worn. I've hardly ever had to replace shifters, mechs due to normal wear. Cables and outers sometimes. Looks tidy enough- what is it that doesn't work?


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## palinurus (7 Jun 2019)

swee'pea99 said:


> As long as you can do the work, ebay is your friend..



I got a 105 rear mech for 1p once (plus a couple of quid postage). The main problem with it is it was dirty.


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## raleighnut (7 Jun 2019)

Of all my bikes only the Trike was built this century.


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## CXRAndy (7 Jun 2019)

make a little video on YouTube of the problems. We can help guide you. A few parts or adjustment will sort it


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

OK guys here are the pics the main issue is it can change gears while stationary but can't change cogs on the front derailleur, as soon as you try and ride it and change gears it throws the chain or just gets jammed up, loads of noise and jumping about from the back derailleur and that hanger doesn't look like it's the correct part not sure how much affect that will have


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> make a little video on YouTube of the problems. We can help guide you. A few parts or adjustment will sort it


Good idea Ive got a few errands to run but I will get a video sorted out thanks


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## EltonFrog (7 Jun 2019)

A photo the right way up might help.


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## ColinJ (7 Jun 2019)

CarlP said:


> A photo the right way up might help.
> 
> View attachment 469813


And standing a metre or two to the left when taking the photo - it's a shadow selfie!


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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)




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## Nb1 (7 Jun 2019)

ColinJ said:


> And standing a metre or two to the left when taking the photo - it's a shadow selfie!


I've been told I'll never make it as a photographer haha


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## nickAKA (7 Jun 2019)

Stage 1 - Clean all that gunk off everything. I wouldn't generally suggest attacking it with degreaser but I think that ship's sailed. Go at it with a toothbrush & rags and some decent degreaser, it looks like tar!
Once properly clean get some chain lube on it.
Stage 2, it could be the angle of the picture but the alignment of the rear mech looks terrible. Every liklihood it is the hanger, thoughts everyone?


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## Vantage (7 Jun 2019)

nickAKA said:


> Stage 2, it could be the angle of the picture but the alignment of the rear mech looks terrible. Every liklihood it is the hanger, thoughts everyone?



The hanger itself looks straight enough but the bolt which connects the mech to the hanger looks bent or the bushes are worn to death. Of course it could also have been fitted cross threaded...which I think would be difficult given the size of those bolts.


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## I like Skol (7 Jun 2019)

X2 I also think the banger looks straight, but either that rear mech cage is mangled or, as Vantage says, the mech bushes are more worn than anything I have ever seen before. The jockey wheels are almost bald and the cassette teeth are not far behind.
As a minimum you will want a new rear mech, cassette and chain. Maybe some chainrings at the front too?

That might be all you need, the rest usually doesn't wear as soon.


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## Crackle (7 Jun 2019)

Looks like the cage is bent or as Vantage says, been re-fitted cross threaded. A replacement would be about 20quid but you might be able to rescue it if you're on a budget, cages can be straightened in a vice or very coarsely, with a hammer. It's difficult to tell about the rest as it's so dirty, as has been said, use a degreaser to clean it all. Even so, a new chain and rear sprocket would be about £30 but you'd need some basic tools.

All of it is doable, it depends on your own skillset or your willingness to have a go. I wouldn't say you needed a new groupset, just the usual wear items and maybe that rear derailleur, possibly a front chainring, maybe some new cables but parts shouldn't be more than than 50-70 quid for all of that but you need to do the work .


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## nickAKA (8 Jun 2019)

You should be able to pick up a second hand derailleur better than that one cheap enough, but I'd buy a new chain & cassette - they are 'consumables' in reality. 
Ebay or ask on here in the wanted forum.


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## Milkfloat (8 Jun 2019)

I am even questioning if that is even the right hanger for the bike.


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## nickAKA (8 Jun 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I am even questioning if that is even the right hanger for the bike.



It should be easy enough to source & change on an allez but the mech looks shot regardless.


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## raleighnut (8 Jun 2019)

Needs new cables too but they're quite cheap.


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## I like Skol (8 Jun 2019)

Nb1 said:


> OK guys here are the pics the main issue is it can change gears while stationary but can't change cogs on the front derailleur, as soon as you try and ride it and change gears it throws the chain or just gets jammed up, loads of noise and jumping about from the back derailleur and that hanger doesn't look like it's the correct part not sure how much affect that will have
> View attachment 469808
> View attachment 469809
> View attachment 469808
> View attachment 469809


Wow, somehow i managed to miss these pictures altogether.....
That sure is a neglected/abused bike! As i already said, it needs a chain, cassette and rear mech. Also the big chainring is dead, the hanger does indeed look like the wrong part so needs replacing. All cables are desperate for renewal.
Before you spend a single penny on that bike you need to check the state of everything else. What is the condition of the hubs/headset/bottom bracket etc? All things can usually be repaired, but at a cost. It might be that it just doesn't make financial sense to fix this bike and for less money than the overall repair cost you could find a loved, well looked after secondhand bike that will serve you well.
Your friends generous donation, although well meaning, may not have been the gift he intended?


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## cyberknight (8 Jun 2019)

this one ?
https://www.mcconveycycles.com/3768/products/specialized-gear-hanger-f.aspx
2011 Allez Allez Comp C2 105
2011 Allez Allez Comp Frameset
2011 Allez Allez Comp M2 Apex
2011 Allez Allez Elite C2 Tiagra
2011 Allez Allez Elite Int C2
2011 Allez Allez Elite Int X3
2011 Allez Allez Sport C2
2011 Allez Allez Sport Int C2
2011 Allez Allez Sport Int X3
2011 Allez Allez Steel X2
2011 Allez Allez X2
2011 Allez Allez X3


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## cyberknight (8 Jun 2019)

I like Skol said:


> Wow, somehow i managed to miss these pictures altogether.....
> That sure is a neglected/abused bike! As i already said, it needs a chain, cassette and rear mech. Also the big chainring is dead, the hanger does indeed look like the wrong part so needs replacing. All cables are desperate for renewal.
> Before you spend a single penny on that bike you need to check the state of everything else. What is the condition of the hubs/headset/bottom bracket etc? All things can usually be repaired, but at a cost. It might be that it just doesn't make financial sense to fix this bike and for less money than the overall repair cost you could find a loved, well looked after secondhand bike that will serve you well.
> Your friends generous donation, although well meaning, may not have been the gift he intended?


+1
unless you know what your doing it could cost you a fair bit to get it roadworthy.I would suggest a good clean, new mech hanger and a recable 1st and go from there .
Mate gave me a bike to strip for parts as hes taller than me which i built onto a smaller frame for commuting using 8 speed sora , does the job for me but i just had to buy replacement wheels after 6 months as the rear hub was that worn the bearings had worn a groove into it .
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/building-a-rat-bike-built-photos-as-the-end.239970/page-2


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## Nb1 (9 Jun 2019)

Thank you everyone for your advice so far. Today's job will be to give it a good clean. I have managed to pick up a second hand btwin hybrid bike in good working order for 30 quid from shpock so my rush to get a commuter is solved, I had originally set aside 150 to buy a new group set for this bike so if people think I Could pick up replacements for this for around that or under I'll give it a go repairing this. I don't mind do the work I have plenty of tools so yeah I'll start on the parts you guys mentioned.

I like skol the hubs headset and bottom seem OK at a glance but I'll find out more as I strip it down. I'll keep you posted guys


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Jun 2019)

Nb1 said:


> I have managed to pick up a second hand btwin hybrid bike in good working order for 30 quid



I do like a sensible, down-to-earth solution to a problem. For everyday utility & leisure riding a cheap secondhand hybrid bike is all anyone could possibly need.


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## ColinJ (9 Jun 2019)

I would seriously consider that singlespeed option! 

I only built mine for fun to use up old spare parts, including a gift of the frame and fork. It turned out to be a very enjoyable bike to ride.


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## vickster (9 Jun 2019)

Did you confirm the provenance of the £30 bike? I.e. Check it was actually the sellers to sell? I'm a cynic when it comes to decent modern bikes being flogged so cheaply...it could well be 
legit but with so many bikes stolen, I'd be checking


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> Did you confirm the provenance of the £30 bike? I.e. Check it was actually the sellers to sell?



Realistically, you can't easily do this, can you?. It's not like bikes have registration numbers and logbooks proving ownership. I've bought cars without paperwork, never mind bikes. 
When I'm buying used online I try to get a feel for the seller, based on previous feedback and what other stuff they might also be selling. I try to work out if the seller is a regular private person having a clearout, a bric-a-brac trader who does property clearances, or someone who gives off bad vibes and is possibly a rogue. 
I bought a virtually mint 1997 Raleigh hybrid for £25 earlier this year, from a girl living in a house that was worth the thick end of £2 mil. She said the bike was her grandad's from new, which was entirely plausible. I somehow doubt she needed to go out stealing bikes off the street to make ends meet! A lot of people will sell quality stuff cheap because they attach no value to it. have no idea of the secondhand market, or just want rid ASAP. It doesn't mean it's bent, unless maybe you are buying it from a total stranger who just walked into the pub for cash - in which case it probably is stolen.


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## vickster (9 Jun 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Realistically, you can't easily do this, can you?. It's not like bikes have registration numbers and logbooks proving ownership. I've bought cars without paperwork, never mind bikes.
> When I'm buying used online I try to get a feel for the seller, based on previous feedback and what other stuff they might also be selling. I try to work out if the seller is a regular private person having a clearout, a bric-a-brac trader who does property clearances, or someone who gives off bad vibes and is possibly a rogue.
> I bought a virtually mint 1997 Raleigh hybrid for £25 earlier this year, from a girl living in a house that was worth the thick end of £2 mil. She said the bike was her grandad's from new, which was entirely plausible. I somehow doubt she needed to go out stealing bikes off the street to make ends meet! A lot of people will sell quality stuff cheap because they attach no value to it. have no idea of the secondhand market, or just want rid ASAP. It doesn't mean it's bent, unless maybe you are buying it from a total stranger who just walked into the pub for cash - in which case it probably is stolen.


I always ask the history of the bike. And for a receipt. And for a seller’s signature. If a seller isn’t prepared to do that, I won’t buy. I’m sure the lady in the £2m house would be happy to. And selling from the home address or a mutually agreeable public place and not a pub carpark would be any condition for my purchase.

When I’ve sold bikes on, I’ve given the receipt as I wouldn’t buy without and also signed a receipt and had the buyer do likewise
There are plenty of honest bikes out there. Bikes have serial numbers, and there are databases that you can check against.
Your lady would pass my provenance check


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> There are plenty of honest bikes out there. Bikes have serial numbers, and there are databases that you can check against.
> Your lady would pass my provenance check



I've run some of my frame numbers through the Bike Register database out of curiosity, and never had a hit - even on a bike that had a prominent warning sticker on the top tube saying it was registered! That I find very odd, unless the frame number wasn't recorded correctly - in which case even if the bike was stolen there would be no way of knowing or proving it one way or the other. That bike was £12 so I won't worry unduly about it. If I was buying bikes in three or four figures I would take a less casual approach, but I generally don't pay much over £20 for a used bike, so it doesn't represent much criminal profit potential.


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## vickster (9 Jun 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I've run some of my frame numbers through the Bike Register database out of curiosity, and never had a hit - even on a bike that had a prominent warning sticker on the top tube saying it was registered! That I find very odd, unless the frame number wasn't recorded correctly - in which case even if the bike was stolen there would be no way of knowing or proving it one way or the other. That bike was £12 so I won't worry unduly about it. If I was buying bikes in three or four figures I would take a less casual approach, but I generally don't pay much over £20 for a used bike, so it doesn't represent much criminal profit potential.


The original owner probably sold it on, de registered and the new owner didn’t register. I’ve done that before
My point was the btwins aren’t 25 years old. Hence my saying it seemed cheap for a good condition modern bike


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## Nb1 (9 Jun 2019)

Regarding the 30 pound bike it was just brought from a retired guy who just fixes up bikes and sells them on he said he had this one just as a frame and gears and just threw some wheels on it. Didn't think about the stolen thing tbh but he had like 20 bikes and a website and loads of good reviews and feedback so I think he's legit but like you say you never know.


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## SkipdiverJohn (9 Jun 2019)

People selling bent gear tend to like to do so anonymously, using public handover places and cash-only transactions. They don't want to leave an audit trail! No criminal with half a dozen brain cells to rub together is going to sell bent goods from his own permanent address and use a website etc I bought three cannibalised donor bikes as a job lot from just such a retired bloke once and it was pretty clear that it was essentially a cycling-related hobby with a small-scale beer-money sideline on top.


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## vickster (9 Jun 2019)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> People selling bent gear tend to like to do so anonymously, using public handover places and cash-only transactions. They don't want to leave an audit trail! No criminal with half a dozen brain cells to rub together is going to sell bent goods from his own permanent address and use a website etc I bought three cannibalised donor bikes as a job lot from just such a retired bloke once and it was pretty clear that it was essentially a cycling-related hobby with a small-scale beer-money sideline on top.


Precisely, but the OP didn't say how he'd acquired the bike


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## Nb1 (10 Jun 2019)

The clean down / strip down starts tonight people, got my eye on a shimano tiagra short cage rear mech on ebay, I'll grab a new cassette over the coming days, new gear cables and outer cables, a new hanger and a new chain so over the next week will hopefully have some progress updates. Again a big thank you to everyone's contribution on this post


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## Dogtrousers (10 Jun 2019)

I've got a new-ish Sora rear mech in a box somewhere that I don't want. I think there's also an 8 speed cassette with it too. Possibly one or two other Sora bits. PM me and I'll post it to you in exchange for a small charitable donation. But be warned I may be a bit slow to get it all organised if you do want it.


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## vickster (11 Jun 2019)

Nb1 said:


> The clean down / strip down starts tonight people, got my eye on a shimano tiagra short cage rear mech on ebay, I'll grab a new cassette over the coming days, new gear cables and outer cables, a new hanger and a new chain so over the next week will hopefully have some progress updates. Again a big thank you to everyone's contribution on this post


What cassette are you wanting if looking at short cage? Very flat where you are?


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## Nb1 (13 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> What cassette are you wanting if looking at short cage? Very flat where you are?


I have picked up a shimano sora 12-25 cassette for 7 quid I was going to get a 12-27 but decide the 25 would be perfectly fine for where I live. Regarding the rear mech I'm going to get what was originally on the bike so like a shimano tiagra or sora short cage.
It is flat where I will be using the bike with only a few hills I can deal with the hills easy on the hybrid bike I picked up so shouldn't be a problem on this once it's running


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## vickster (13 Jun 2019)

I don’t know if it matters but isn’t one 9 speed and 1 is 10 speed?


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## Nb1 (13 Jun 2019)

vickster said:


> I don’t know if it matters but isn’t one 9 speed and 1 is 10 speed?


Bbb do a 9 12 27 speed one which is cheap but I figured as it's my first time rebuilding I'd stick as close to the original set up as possible and get the shimano sora 12 25


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## wonderloaf (13 Jun 2019)

Looking at your photo's the cassette is an 8 speed (I think), so a 9 or 10 speed cassette wouldn't fit. I know this sounds obvious and sorry if I've misunderstood but in the thread you mention Sora and Tiagra cassettes which are currently 9 and 10 speed respectively so won't be suitable. Maybe older 8 speed versions of Sora and Tiagra would be OK though.
Just thought this would be worth mentioning as don't want you making a costly mistake!


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## Vantage (19 Jun 2019)

Depends on the hub. 
Mine takes anything from 8spd to 10spd cassettes.


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## Nb1 (27 Jun 2019)

Hey all wanted to update you all and thank you all for your initially advice and suggestions on this. 

Unfortunately after a very long clean and strip down these bike is not worth restoring literally everything is trashed. 
My friend ( same one) has scrapped the bike frame but again kindly gave me his old kids bike to take advantage of the halfords 15 percent trade in. We took a trip to our local halfords where they had a very interesting looking bike a carrera crixus on sale at 249. Which I brought
I know people slate carrera and halfords but I figured I've been doing just fine doing 12 mile a day on that old btwin hybrid bike despite the bumpy parts I picked up so this should be fine for me. I'm excited to pick it up and test it out. I'll probably change the wheels upgrade the canti brakes and the pedals. Would like to spray it too haha but all in all I think I'm going to be very happy with it at just over £200


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## Vantage (27 Jun 2019)

Nothing wrong with carrera bikes themselves, but be wary of their "mechanics."
I wouldn't let one of those monkeys loose on my bike if my life depended on it. And in the case of brakes, it literally does.


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## Nb1 (27 Jun 2019)

Vantage said:


> Nothing wrong with carrera bikes themselves, but be wary of their "mechanics."
> I wouldn't let one of those monkeys loose on my bike if my life depended on it. And in the case of brakes, it literally does.


I was very dubious about letting them set the bike up having read some very negative reviews, however I spoke to the guys in the hike hut for a good amount of time both of whom I spoke to did group meets and other competitive cycling so I'm hoping ( fingers and toes crossed) they know what there doing. If not ill get it down to the lbs for the stuff I can't do myself


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## Drago (27 Jun 2019)

Blimey, you have to go some to screw 3500. It really is tough as old boots. I think I'd pass by any bike that has been so badly maltreated that Shimanos depleted uranium gruppo has given up the ghost.


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## Racing roadkill (20 Jul 2019)

Just buy a new Allez. It’s be easier and cheaper, especially if you buy second hand:


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