# Post-ride shivers



## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

Now that the weather is getting colder, I've started suffering from quite intense shivering a little while after I get home from a ride. Yesterday, for example...

I rode a total of 74 miles, mostly in a group (but 15 miles alone to get to the start) at an average speed of 10mph, with a couple of lengthy stops.

The weather was very cold when I set out at 06:30, with frost, and I had to have a couple of 10-minute stops out of the wind chill to let my fingers and toes warm up. But by a couple of hours after sunrise it was very pleasant, and gradually got a warmer (if still bracing) through the day - and my fingers and toes were fine.

I didn't really feel cold at all when moving, but also didn't really generate any sweat - at least, my cycling clothes when I got home weren't even damp. I changed into several clean layers and was nice and warm, but after about an hour I was starting to get shivery, and half an hour after that I was so cold and shivering I was further layered up and in bed to keep warm.

Every time I've gone out in the cold recently, this has happened. Explanations I've read tend to focus on fairly high intensity workouts rather than a gentle cycling pootle, and put it down to continuing to sweat after stopping, dropping core body temperature too much. But I just wasn't sweating after I stopped - I remained as dry as the moment I stepped off the bike. And it's never happened when I have worked up a sweat in warmer weather, only when I'm riding in the cold.

I consumed plenty of kcals and fluids during the day, and clear urine showed no suspicion of dehydration.

Does this happen to anyone else? Any thoughts?


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## vickster (29 Oct 2018)

There's been a little discussion in the past
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/post-ride-shivers.229285/
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-get-colder-and-colder.226245/


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> There's been a little discussion in the past
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/post-ride-shivers.229285/
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-get-colder-and-colder.226245/


Ah, thanks - I'll have a read of those.


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## vickster (29 Oct 2018)

Might be more if you stick shiver in the search box


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

vickster said:


> Might be more if you stick shiver in the search box


Thanks - I did a few searches (here and elsewhere), but all I really found were discussions that ended up pointing to https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ng-and-thermoregulation-the-post-run-shivers/

But that's essentially about the continuation of sweating after stopping exercise, which cools down the core too much. But as I say, gentle pootle, no sweat - and I don't seem to fit the profile of that _Scicurious_ writer.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Oct 2018)

I get this after long winter rides. Merino LS tops have helped. I also wear thin merino gloves under my usual ones. And a buff. Thin undersocks under the usual summer ones and overshoes. Hot drinks. Warm pub at the end.


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

Interesting, thanks folks. I'm pretty sure it wasn't dehydration, as I drank 0.5L of water before I left, 1.75L of hydration mix plus 1L of commercial drinks while out, and I was peeing just fine.

I also wasn't feeling cold while riding (apart from the very early morning, but I soon warmed up) and I'd have been too warm with any extra layers. (As an aside, I can't wear any kind of wool against my skin, even merino, as it brings be out in a nasty itchy rash).

Warm pub at the end does sound good, and it was on offer at the end of the group ride (and then train home). But I needed to ride back to get in a 100km ride this month.


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## mjr (29 Oct 2018)

Alan O said:


> Interesting, thanks folks. I'm pretty sure it wasn't dehydration, as I drank 0.5L of water before I left, 1.75L of hydration mix plus 1L of commercial drinks while out, and I was peeing just fine.
> 
> I also wasn't feeling cold while riding (apart from the very early morning, but I soon warmed up) and I'd have been too warm with any extra layers. (As an aside, I can't wear any kind of wool against my skin, even merino, as it brings be out in a nasty itchy rash).


That sounds familiar, except that I don't much bother with hydration mix or commercial drinks. Mine isn't restricted to cycling either and it's a very faster. I can go walk around outside in the current near-zero for a few minutes and I'll only start shivering after I return to a warm building. That has its uses, but I suspect it's not really a good thing to get so cold and only to react after it's irrelevant! I don't remember going out in the cold underdressed for more than a few minutes and with the reports from others like yourself of shivering lasting longer and getting deeper, I'm not inclined to try!

I can't wear wool against my skin either, so I wear merino for warmth over thin loose-weave cotton long-sleeve T shirts as a base layer. Loads of people rant against cotton base layers, but I think they're mainly a problem if they get wet with sweat and then get cold - I'm not sweating, so that's not a problem. I think bamboo can do both jobs as a single non-irritating base layer but it's often blended with plastics which stink quickly, which is annoying. I've also a nice Rapha technical cotton T-shirt which is pretty warm, but not warm enough to use alone for this weekend's 3°c.


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## bikingdad90 (29 Oct 2018)

Symptom of hypothermia and the body heating up to fast after getting warm?


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

mjr said:


> That sounds familiar, except that I don't much bother with hydration mix or commercial drinks.


My hydration mix is just 6 teaspoons of sugar plus one teaspoon of salt per litre of water (more salt than standard ORT, for sweat replacement - not so important in this weather).



mjr said:


> Loads of people rant against cotton base layers, but I think they're mainly a problem if they get wet with sweat and then get cold - I'm not sweating, so that's not a problem.


Same. I have half a dozen thin cotton ones, and they make very comfortable base layers. My cycle clothing almost never gets wet with sweat - when it is warm enough for me to sweat, I wear sufficiently few layers so it evaporates in the breeze. The only time I do get sweaty-wet is if I have to wear a waterproof, and I hate that wet feeling whatever fabric I'm wearing.


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

bikingdad90 said:


> Symptom of hypothermia and the body heating up to fast after getting warm?


Hmm, yes, I guess it's possible that even if I don't _feel_ cold, that's to some extent psychological and I'm actually just not noticing my core getting a bit too cold.


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## CXRAndy (29 Oct 2018)

Your pace wasnt sufficient to generate heat, even riding in winter you need to get a bit of a sweat on. Wear a full length lycra base layer with a wicking cotton layer ontop and further layers if cold . Lycra keeps moisture away from skin.


On another note, i had a sweat on this week, but I was riding in Gran Canaria  . I dont
ride outdoors in the UK in autumn through to spring-all indoor turbo training


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## mjr (29 Oct 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Your pace wasnt sufficient to generate heat, even riding in winter you need to get a bit of a sweat on. Wear a full length lycra base layer with a wicking cotton layer ontop and further layers if cold . Lycra keeps moisture away from skin.


Like wool, Lycra irritates some people's skin.

No-one needs to "get a bit of a sweat on" IMO. Balance clothing and effort to reach and keep a steady temperature state.



CXRAndy said:


> On another note, i had a sweat on this week, but I was riding in Gran Canaria  . I dont ride outdoors in the UK in autumn through to spring-all indoor turbo training


So the above advice is based on how much experience of riding in cold UK weather?


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Your pace wasnt sufficient to generate heat


Well, to be pedantic, we homeotherms have no choice but to generate heat, whatever pace we're moving at 

_Sufficient_ heat, of course, is the issue, and I'm not convinced we need to sweat to achieve it - in fact, sweating is an indication that we're generating too much heat. Having said that, I guess sweating does give us an indication that we are at least generating enough heat, whereas a lack of sweat doesn't indicate anything either way - could be fine, could be too cold. But either way, I wouldn't deliberately get myself sweaty, not on social occasions (which is what my rides are).



CXRAndy said:


> Wear a full length lycra base layer...



And no, I'm not wearing lycra - nothing against those who do, but it's definitely not for me at my age on my vintage touring bike (not even as a base layer) 

Just another thought about cotton - decades ago, before everyone wore lycra and other cycling-specific clothing, I seem to remember cotton being recommended as an ideal layering fabric and being comfortable and easy to wash. It's certainly the most comfortable material I've ever worn against my skin.


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## Alan O (29 Oct 2018)

[QUOTE 5425740, member: 9609"]May be (unlikely but will give it a mention) you are pooling cold blood in your arms and when you get indoors and circulation gets back to normal the cold blood in your arms is dropping the core temp. 

This can be an issue with people submersed in cold water, the body restricts flow to the limbs to preserve core temp, then if the patient is warmed too quickly all that cold blood in the arms and legs flowing back into the core can cause problems. Obviously as a cyclist your legs won't be cold, but may be there could be enough cold blood in the arms?[/QUOTE]
Interesting thought, and extra thanks for reminding me of Hancock ("Why, that's very nearly an armful.")


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## CXRAndy (29 Oct 2018)

Ive done plenty of winter riding in the past and learnt by experience. I prefer these days to keep indoors or warm tours elsewhere


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## Globalti (30 Oct 2018)

You rode 74 miles on a freezing day and are surprised that you bonked a couple of hours later? The best time to refuel is in the half hour after finishing a ride so you should have sat down an eaten an unashamedly nutritious meal of fats, carbs and protein, something like scrambled eggs (made with butter) on buttered wholemeal toast, perhaps with some grilled bacon or even smoked salmon slices or ham. I once met a German doctor who was sitting outside the cafe in Chipping and tucking into seven fried eggs with toast; he said eggs are the best nutrition possible and the cheapest too.


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## Alan O (30 Oct 2018)

Globalti said:


> You rode 74 miles on a freezing day and are surprised that you bonked a couple of hours later? The best time to refuel is in the half hour after finishing a ride so you should have sat down an eaten an unashamedly nutritious meal of fats, carbs and protein, something like scrambled eggs (made with butter) on buttered wholemeal toast, perhaps with some grilled bacon or even smoked salmon slices or ham. I once met a German doctor who was sitting outside the cafe in Chipping and tucking into seven fried eggs with toast; he said eggs are the best nutrition possible and the cheapest too.


Oh no, it wasn't bonk. I ate loads before, during, and immediately after the ride, and I felt full of energy all day.


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## Globalti (30 Oct 2018)

Oh. Well I do believe the body has a thermostat, which it resets quite quickly. I notice that when I return home in winter after a trip to Africa I feel cold until I go out for a brisk walk or ride and generate muscular warmth, which seems to re-start the muscle tone that you need for keeping warm. Perhaps in your case the effect went the other way.


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## Kajjal (30 Oct 2018)

It can be your body has run out of easier energy stores and is burning fat. The solution in this case is eat something suitable shortly after your ride.


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## Alan O (30 Oct 2018)

Kajjal said:


> It can be your body has run out of easier energy stores and is burning fat. The solution in this case is eat something suitable shortly after your ride.


I had a huge bowl of chili con carne with rice immediately after returning. (Thai rice - high glycemic index).


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## Alan O (30 Oct 2018)

Globalti said:


> Oh. Well I do believe the body has a thermostat, which it resets quite quickly. I notice that when I return home in winter after a trip to Africa I feel cold until I go out for a brisk walk or ride and generate muscular warmth, which seems to re-start the muscle tone that you need for keeping warm. Perhaps in your case the effect went the other way.


Yeah, I suspect it might be some sort of thermostat malfunction.


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## Alan O (3 Nov 2018)

Another ride in the cold today, and everything was very similar to recent rides. Today's was 42 miles (recent ones have been between 30 and 74 miles and I got the shivers every time).

The only difference was that near the end there's a pub I've passed a few times but never been in. I was only a few miles from the station for home and it was all on a disused railway cycle path, and my pint of Timothy Taylor's Landlord went down very nicely.

And this evening, no shivers - so I think I have the solution


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Nov 2018)

What clothing were you wearing whilst moving and what were you wearing whilst stopped? Did you stop to eat hot food at any point?


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## Milzy (3 Nov 2018)

Smart trainer problem solved.


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## Alan O (4 Nov 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> What clothing were you wearing whilst moving and what were you wearing whilst stopped? Did you stop to eat hot food at any point?


Just various thin layers, added and removed as necessary. And no, no hot food - I carry my own food and pretty much only ever stop for cake.


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## dave r (4 Nov 2018)

Alan O said:


> And no, I'm not wearing lycra - nothing against those who do, but it's definitely not for me at my age on my vintage touring bike (not even as a base layer)
> 
> Just another thought about cotton - decades ago, before everyone wore lycra and other cycling-specific clothing, I seem to remember cotton being recommended as an ideal layering fabric and being comfortable and easy to wash. It's certainly the most comfortable material I've ever worn against my skin.



I prefer bamboo for base layer's, very comfortable and nice against the skin. It sounds like your temperature continued to drop after you got in the house, you probably were a little hyporermic when you got in and might need to dress a bit warmer


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## vickster (4 Nov 2018)

Milzy said:


> Smart trainer problem solved.


But it would take him until the end of time and beyond to do 74 miles as you don’t actually go anywhere on an exercise bike computer game


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## CXRAndy (4 Nov 2018)

vickster said:


> But it would take him until the end of time and beyond to do 74 miles as you don’t actually go anywhere on an exercise bike computer game



If you're after keeping/building fitness over the cold, dark, wet winter then a smart turbo offers far better physical workout.


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## dave r (4 Nov 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> If you're after keeping/building fitness over the cold, dark, wet winter then a smart turbo offers far better physical workout.



May be, but it's not as much fun


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## vickster (4 Nov 2018)

Turbos are ok if you’re training for summer racing, using for rehab or whatever, but I’d much rather get outside if at all possible


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## Alan O (4 Nov 2018)

Milzy said:


> Smart trainer problem solved.


For a moment there, I thought you were saying I was training smartly by having a beer


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## Alan O (4 Nov 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> If you're after keeping/building fitness over the cold, dark, wet winter then a smart turbo offers far better physical workout.


I'm not, I'm after enjoying my cycling - and I love winter riding too.


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