# Cycling on the pavement



## Chris S (2 Aug 2010)

What is the legal status of cycling on the pavement?

I always thought it was illegal but I've seen police and community support officers do it.


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## Gerry Attrick (2 Aug 2010)

I've seen police cars parked on double yellows and coppers using a mobile phone whilst driving. I doesn't make it legal my friend.


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## ian turner (2 Aug 2010)

Chris S said:


> What is the legal status of cycling on the pavement?
> 
> I always thought it was illegal but I've seen police and community support officers do it.




Cycling on _footways_ (a pavement at the side of a carriageway) is prohibited by _Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835, amended by Section 85(1) of the Local Government Act 1888_. This is punishable by a fixed penalty notice of £30 under _Section 51_ and _Schedule 3 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988_. 

Why else would there be signs specifically indicating that a wide pavement was also a cycle path ?


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

You have permission off the local council to move your vehicle across the pavement that seperates your driveway and the roadway.


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

Yes it is illegal. However the Home Office have issued qualifying advice which boils down to "Dear Chief Constable, don't 'do' people if they ride responsibly and safely on the pavement and are doing so because they consider the road to be too dangerous an alternative."

For some strange reason this perfectly reasonable workaround seems to provoke the fury of many of the "but the law says" brigade including some 'proper' cyclists. I guess they'd rather see 10-year-olds and their once-a-week cycling mum's riding to the shops on dual carriageways, or perhaps not riding at all?


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## mgarl10024 (2 Aug 2010)

Hi Chris,

I live in North Bristol and at a recent local community meeting I asked this very question to the local Neighbourhood Team Inspector.

His response was that it was illegal but that they had to use discretion. So, if you were a 10 year old riding slowly, unlikely to cause an incident, they'd probably let it slide. However, he cited a case of a 'fully grown adult' going 'at top speed' down a pavement on a local highstreet packed with people - who would of course cause a lot of injury if they hit someone. They caught up with him, put him through the courts, and he ended up with a £500 fine.

Hope that helps,

MG


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## summerdays (2 Aug 2010)

mgarl10024 said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> I live in North Bristol and at a recent local community meeting I asked this very question to the local Neighbourhood Team Inspector.
> 
> ...




Well if you live in Bristol then the following is relevant ... as of yesterday, there is supposed to be a crack-down on pavement cycling and RJL'ing - if you are caught you have the choice of the fine £30 or a £15 1 hours cycle training course. Originally I had heard that it was also supposed to include a crackdown on bad driving by motorists affecting cyclists (stopping in the ASL box, parking in cycle lanes), but apparently they have decided to wait and see how the first part is deemed. I would rather an equal attack. 

IT also doesn't say whether it takes into account Home Office guidance.

As regards to children cycling on the pavement - I've chatted with various policemen over the years and usually get the same response - they are unlikely to stop a child on the pavement unless they are cycling in a dangerous manner. They can't fine them anyway.


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## benb (2 Aug 2010)

What about if there is a pavement with a strip of grass between it and the road, like this.
Is it OK to cycle on the grass bit?


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## ManiaMuse (2 Aug 2010)

I really don't see the point in those MTB cops. 

I mean, why do they need front suspension? Surely a hybrid style bike would be more suitable to their needs (pretty much all roads/pavements). I would have thought that a bike chase along a rough track would be pretty rare.

And why do they insist on cycling in twos next to each other in the middle of the road at 5-8mph. I've lost of the number of times I've had to pull right out to scalp a pair of slow moving coppers.

I think I saw mentioned somewhere that the only training they have to do is bikeability 2 which is aimed at 10-13 year olds.

Why don't we give them roller blades instead like the French?


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## swee'pea99 (2 Aug 2010)

Or pogo sticks...


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## g00se (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> I really don't see the point in those MTB cops.
> 
> I mean, why do they need front suspension? Surely a hybrid style bike would be more suitable to their needs (pretty much all roads/pavements). I would have thought that a bike chase along a rough track would be pretty rare.
> 
> ...



Read an article on it a while back - it's for jumping kerbs and going down steps


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> I really don't see the point in those MTB cops.
> 
> I mean, why do they need front suspension? Surely a hybrid style bike would be more suitable to their needs (pretty much all roads/pavements). I would have thought that a bike chase along a rough track would be pretty rare.
> 
> ...




Because 'England swings'.....


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## ManiaMuse (2 Aug 2010)

g00se said:


> Read an article on it a while back - it's for jumping kerbs and going down steps



So? This guy can do it on a road bike...


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> So? This guy can do it on a road bike...




not on a fully loaded plod bike wearing fully loaded plod gear he can't.


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

summerdays said:


> Well if you live in Bristol then the following is relevant ...



Then the good folk of Bristol need to arm themselves with this information

On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens. 

_"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004) 

_The onus is on the enforcement officers to demonstrate irresposbsible/inconsiderate behaviour by the pavement cyclist when issuing a fixed penalty notice - which you can contest if you wish and get your day in court to debate the case. I've spoken to our local CSO's in the past about their occassionally overzealous and underinformed approach when they have stopped me. (riding on pavement route at walking speed which avoids a town centre dual carriageway where the 30mph limit is never, ever enforced.


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## Klaus (2 Aug 2010)

Chris S said:


> What is the legal status of cycling on the pavement?
> 
> I always thought it was illegal but I've seen police and community support officers do it.




The legal aspect has been clarified in other posts I think. 
Common sense has to rule here. I make a point of riding on the roads whereever possible.
If there are long and under-utilised stretches of pavement in good condition I use them.
Most average pavements are in a bad state of repair, plus missing drop kerbs, cars parked
on them etc, so it's safer being on the road.


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

I thought CSO meant "Constable Shaped Object"...


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

It also comes down to appearances.

A helmetless person wearing baggie shorts on a roadrace bike riding along the footpath looks like he's just stolen the bike.
A properly dressed roadie won't be on the footpath.

A lycra clad person with all the gizmos on an expensive MTB looks like a posing 'Jack the lad' and needs knocking down a peg or two.
A properly dressed MTBer won't be on the footpath.

An elderly lady on her stepthrough with basket will get a "be careful now, ma'am".


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## Hont (2 Aug 2010)

summerdays said:


> As regards to children cycling on the pavement - I've chatted with various policemen over the years and usually get the same response - they are unlikely to stop a child on the pavement unless they are cycling in a dangerous manner. They can't fine them anyway.


I recall reading somewhere that 7 and unders are allowed to ride on the pavement.


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## DavieB (2 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1148374"]
It should be and normally is a *common sense approach*, ironically undermined more often than not only by cyclists complaining loudly that if you don't want to or* can't ride on the road then you shouldn't be cycling.*
[/quote]

My partner can ride, but she does not have the confidence to ride on the road she gets far too much wobble up hills for one thing to feel safe on the road, the route I have been taking her on to improve her bike skills and fitness has a path all the way around it there are practically no pedestrians on the road. When Im out with her I use it with her so I am in a good distance to her, should she just not bother learning? 


Its the only time i use the path all other times Im on the road. Its not a black and white issue.

Cyclists do the most moaning about cyclists.


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> I thought CSO meant "Constable Shaped Object"...




all of ours our football shaped.

and your next post ignores totally the existence of utility cyclists


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

Hont said:


> I recall reading somewhere that 7 and unders are allowed to ride on the pavement.




The law doesn't state an age specifically in relation to pavement cycling. The law does state and age at which any child can be prosecuted for any crime.

Plenty of elderly folk, some of them seasoned 'proper' cyclists pavement ride round here as they can't hack modern i.e. lousy driving standards.


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## theclaud (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> I really don't see the point in those MTB cops.
> 
> I mean, why do they need front suspension? Surely a hybrid style bike would be more suitable to their needs (pretty much all roads/pavements). I would have thought that a bike chase along a rough track would be pretty rare.
> 
> ...



Ah, now that's an interesting link to my thread about cycling two abreast. It clearly connotes authority, confidence, and an explicit claim to road space. We should all do more of it (though preferably not on the pavement). And front suspension is handy for going down steps...


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## ManiaMuse (2 Aug 2010)

theclaud said:


> Ah, now that's an interesting link to my thread about cycling two abreast. It clearly connotes authority, confidence, and an explicit claim to road space. We should all do more of it (though preferably not on the pavement). And front suspension is handy for going down steps...



What annoys me about it is that they often do it at very slow speeds while 'observing'. This unecessarily holds other road users up including other cyclists when they could easily avoid that by slotting in behind each other or cycling faster.

I'm all for claiming your own road space but if they choose to cycle 2-abreast then they should do it at an appropriate speed (i.e. not wobbling along at little more than walking pace).

I can understand why mounted police do it but police mtbs aren't going to be spooked by passing traffic. Yes they should be a presence but they should also not be an obstruction when nothing out of the ordinary is going on.

Maybe that's just my cycling ethos coming through though - most of the time I ride my 90cm from the curb, I take the lane when necessary for my safety etc. But I also try to avoid being an obstruction when I can help it. So for example on unrestricted narrow roads when I know there is a queue of traffic behind me I will tuck in a bit when I can see there is a safe gap in oncoming traffic to make it easier and actually encourage cars to overtake me at that point.


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## summerdays (2 Aug 2010)

Hont said:


> I recall reading somewhere that 7 and unders are allowed to ride on the pavement.



Theoretically no-one is allowed to cycle on the pavement - the law is a very old one I gather. But no one is going to tell a 2 year old off, nor a 5 year old ... there isn't a defined age at which a child shouldn't cycle on the pavement. However they can't be fined with a Fixed Penalty Notice before the age 16.


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## theclaud (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> What annoys me about it is that they often do it at very slow speeds while 'observing'. This unecessarily holds other road users up including other cyclists when they could easily avoid that by slotting in behind each other or cycling faster.
> 
> I'm all for claiming your own road space but if they choose to cycle 2-abreast then they should do it at an appropriate speed (i.e. not wobbling along at little more than walking pace).
> 
> I can understand why mounted police do it but police mtbs aren't going to be spooked by passing traffic. Yes they should be a presence but they should also not be an obstruction when nothing out of the ordinary is going on.



Police horses are not, in my experience, spooked by _anything_. But I digress. They're talking, surely? Plus if they're on a beat it makes sense to take it slowly rather than going hell for leather. People are always saying they want lots of bobbies on the beat...


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## ManiaMuse (2 Aug 2010)

theclaud said:


> Police horses are not, in my experience, spooked by _anything_. But I digress. They're talking, surely? Plus if they're on a beat it makes sense to take it slowly rather than going hell for leather. People are always saying they want lots of bobbies on the beat...



Thing is when a motorist sees a couple of lycra clad roadies cycling 2-abreast 'talking' the response is usually a horn blast or shouting and swearing.


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## summerdays (2 Aug 2010)

I'm just back from cycling to an out of town shopping centre ... and I tend to use the cycle path next to the dual carriageway just because of the number of lorries and dust they kick up (there are very few side roads along this stretch), but they are also doing road works so I had to swap sides etc, and as a result of the idea that they were cracking down on pavement cycling I kept on having to check if I could see the shared pavement symbols. I kept imagining someone leaping out to fine me. Felt much better once I was back on the road on known territory.


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## theclaud (2 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> Thing is when a motorist sees a couple of lycra clad roadies cycling 2-abreast 'talking' the response is usually a horn blast or shouting and swearing.



Indeed! It's something on which I have been musing lately. I won't hijack this thread - I've been upsetting the more craven element in Commuting here.


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## GrumpyGregry (2 Aug 2010)

Locally we assume being put on police cycle duty is the equivalent of being sent to the naughty step for not being fit enough to waddle around the town centre providing 'reassurance policing'. Our CSO's ride slowly because they are too fat and unfit to ride any other way, and by hunting in pairs they double their IQ's; enough to do joined up writing and everything.

Gawd help us when Theresa May's local police vigalantes volunteers start up. "Your training today ladies and gentlemen is "The Daily Mail Guide to the Law by J. Clarkson". Oh. I see you already have your copies." Well, err, off you go."


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## Midnight (2 Aug 2010)

theclaud said:


> ...if they're on a beat it makes sense to take it slowly rather than going hell for leather. People are always saying they want lots of bobbies on the beat...



+1

It's refreshing to see Bobbies on bicycles, and I always give them a friendly acknowledgement. Surely it's better to see 'em on bikes rather than in a car when so much of the world seems to pass 'em by. Think of them as beat bobbies with bikes; faster than chasing after yobs on foot and they can follow where vehicles are often stymied - down alleys, through labyrinthine housing estates etc... And the one's in my area are usually full coppers, not CSO's. 

IMO cycling on pavements is an unacceptable risk to pedestrians. Most urban pavements are not wide enough for cyclists to pass pedestrians at a safe distance. I'm astounded by those who are so quick to complain that helmet-wearing engenders the belief that cycling is inherently dangerous and discourages cycling, yet they think it o.k to ride on pavements because the roads aren't safe!!! What sort of message does this behaviour send out? It's perfectly acceptible and sensible to allow small children to ride on the pavement, but not full-grown adults.


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## vikingcyclist (2 Aug 2010)

Wouldn't a tandem stop then taking up so much of the road, and give them that extra bit of speed they'd need in a chase?


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## Midnight (2 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1148389"]
The argument against helmet wearing is ineffectiveness. This is completely removed from the arguments for some cyclists using pavements.
[/quote]

My arguement was that cycling on pavements promotes the belief that cycling is inherently dangerous, not to start another pointless h..... debate!


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## Midnight (2 Aug 2010)

Well, I suppose I was lucky and learned to cycle when I was a kid, so I've never found the need to cycle on the pavements. But surely there are better ways to learn to cycle without cycling on the pavements.


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## steve30 (2 Aug 2010)

The only way into our town centre which doesn't involve much longer and more dangerous windy twisty national speed limit roads, is a dual carriageway, which gets very busy.

I ride down the dual carriageway now as I use it regularly and have become quite familiar with it. But I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for using the pavement to avoid the cars, especially during the day when the road is very busy. In fact, it is quite rare that I see many pedestrians on said pavement. If I go down the road in the morning, I may pass 3 or 4 in 3 miles.

When I have to go back home up the dual carriageway (up hill), if I end up being very tired or feeling sick, I certainly do not use the road and only go slowly up the pavement.


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

Why are coppers on bikes all big fat bloaters?

You'd look a big fat bloater if you went cycling in the body armour they wear.

The bike coppers in Solihull are well fit.


Why do coppers on bikes ride so slowly?

Cycling is not their primary function. Their primary function is to identify the body language of criminals.


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## ManiaMuse (2 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Cycling is not their primary function. Their primary function is to identify the body language of criminals.



They can do that without obstructing the road.


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## Midnight (2 Aug 2010)

Confidence - Self-assurance, feeling of certainty, trust.
Ability - Skill, competence, dexterity, aptitude.

If someone lacks the trust and/or competence to cycle on the roads then how is that not a training issue? If they want to improve their confidence and handling skills, there are plenty of places to practice without cycling on the pavement. 




steve30 said:


> The only way into our town centre which doesn't involve much longer and more dangerous windy twisty national speed limit roads, is a dual carriageway, which gets very busy.
> 
> I ride down the dual carriageway now as I use it regularly and have become quite familiar with it. But I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for using the pavement to avoid the cars, especially during the day when the road is very busy. In fact, it is quite rare that I see many pedestrians on said pavement. If I go down the road in the morning, I may pass 3 or 4 in 3 miles.
> 
> When I have to go back home up the dual carriageway (up hill), if I end up being very tired or feeling sick, I certainly do not use the road and only go slowly up the pavement.



That's perfectly understandable, and I agree that there are roads which are very hazardous for cyclists, especially in town/city centres. But let's face it, there are too many who choose to cycle on the pavement in areas where it is perfectly safe to use the road, and also at times when there is little or no traffic about. I've seen cyclists using the pavement to circumvent traffic lights, others riding along the pavement at a high rate of knots weaving around pedestrians and street furniture and blindly across junctions, some whilst carring out a phone conversation, riding one-handed and multitude other sins - they certainly don't lack confidence.


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## jimboalee (2 Aug 2010)

Midnight said:


> Confidence - Self-assurance, feeling of certainty, trust.
> Ability - Skill, competence, dexterity, aptitude.
> 
> If someone lacks the trust and/or competence to cycle on the roads then how is that not a training issue? If they want to improve their confidence and handling skills, there are plenty of places to practice without cycling on the pavement.
> ...



What is needed hear is someone to quickly hold out a fist at the correct height. When the cyclist wakes up, he can be told it is dangerous to ride on the footpath.


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## al78 (3 Aug 2010)

GregCollins said:


> I've spoken to our local CSO's in the past about their occassionally overzealous and underinformed approach when they have stopped me. (riding on pavement route at walking speed which avoids a town centre dual carriageway where the 30mph limit is never, ever enforced.



Is that the Albion Way in Horsham, by any chance?


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Aug 2010)

al78 said:


> Is that the Albion Way in Horsham, by any chance?



yep. A few years back a pair of CSO's stopped me when I was cycling past St Marks Court. They did not know, nor would they accept, that it was a cyclepath. "If it was a cyclepath, sir, why are there no signs?". Buffoons. All the while below us the Albion Way Grand Prix was taking place.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> Why are coppers on bikes all big fat bloaters?
> 
> You'd look a big fat bloater if you went cycling in the body armour they wear.
> 
> ...



Ours don't wear body armour when on bikes, Sussex not being the war zone that Solihull apparently is. Their primary function around here is not identifying criminals, or even preventing crime, it is 'reassurance policing'. A PR function. A bit of spin to keep the local tax payers happy.


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## jimboalee (3 Aug 2010)

GregCollins said:


> Ours don't wear body armour when on bikes, Sussex not being the war zone that Solihull apparently is. Their primary function around here is not identifying criminals, *or even preventing crime*, it is 'reassurance policing'. A PR function. A bit of spin to keep the local tax payers happy.




It is the Sussex local Council Tax payers who are funding the coppers to 'look nice' on their bikes.
If they are 'happy' with that, then god bless them.


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## jimboalee (3 Aug 2010)

GregCollins said:


> Ours don't wear body armour when on bikes, Sussex not being the war zone that Solihull apparently is. Their primary function around here is not identifying criminals, or even preventing crime, it is 'reassurance policing'. A PR function. A bit of spin to keep the local tax payers happy.




You can search all you like but you won't be able to buy a postcard of Solihull. This is the council's mandate to keep the riff-raff away.
We issue our cycle coppers/border patrols with body armour JIC some riff-raff from somewhere else try to get in. 

Any newbies who apply to reside in the borough are offered accomodation on the Monkspath Estate, next to the 24hr Tesco, Mc D's and the Land Rover dealership.
If they can endure the steady stream of joggers from the Virgin Active health club, and the continuous flow of BMWs and Jaguars on test drives, they are promoted to the B91 postcode.


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## mgarl10024 (3 Aug 2010)

Hi,

On this subject, I went to the local shopping centre this lunchtime. The place is basically like a giant car park with shops all the way round. Separating the shops and the car park is a 3m wide path. The place was deserted, so I rolled along the wide path at no more than walking speed. 
This elderly guy on a mobility scooter then comes towards me, blocks my path, and goes on about how I should be on the road (note that there is no road, it's a car park, full of cars doing all sorts of manoeuvres).

I think this is where discretion comes in. I mean, if I were doing full speed and could injure someone - fine, but at 3-4mph there's little chance of an accident here.
I suggested to him that perhaps he aught to be on the road too (being on wheels). He argued that he didn't have to. Technically, I think he's right, although he's now limited to 4mph because these scooters kept hitting people.

Because I politely stated my case back to him, he didn't really know what to do and clicked his accelerator and whirred off.
Fair play to him for saying something (even if I think he is wrong), but I do hope that he doesn't say something to the wrong person - there are younger people in groups who I guess would not state their case so politely.

We live and learn I guess,

MG


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## Dunbar (3 Aug 2010)

[quote name='swee'pea99' timestamp='1280742948' post='1349210']
Or pogo sticks...
[/quote]

And a bag of sweets?

And most of the ones I've seen are scruffier than a scruffy thing. 

John


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> You can search all you like but you won't be able to buy a postcard of Solihull. This is the council's mandate to keep the riff-raff away.
> We issue our cycle coppers/border patrols with body armour JIC some riff-raff from somewhere else try to get in.
> 
> Any newbies who apply to reside in the borough are offered accomodation on the Monkspath Estate, next to the 24hr Tesco, Mc D's and the Land Rover dealership.
> If they can endure the steady stream of joggers from the Virgin Active health club, and the continuous flow of BMWs and Jaguars on test drives, they are promoted to the B91 postcode.



Sounds suspiciously like Crawley to me.


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## Dunbar (3 Aug 2010)

GregCollins said:


> Sounds suspiciously like Crawley to me.


Only since Jasper Carrot took over!


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## Norm (3 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> You can search all you like but you won't be able to buy a postcard of Solihull. This is the council's mandate to keep the riff-raff away.


Hey, Jimbo, you knew that you couldn't write that without someone checking, didn't you.


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## Norm (3 Aug 2010)

jimboalee said:


> You can search all you like but you won't be able to buy a postcard of Solihull.


I thought I was going to be looking all night for exciting postcards of Solihull, but I'm going to give up now as I don't think I'll ever be able to beat the Edwardian cycling lovelies in this view of the High Street.


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## snailracer (4 Aug 2010)

As far as I can tell, there is no relationship between legality and pedestrian safety when riding on pavements.

Many cycle "paths" are narrow pavements with the odd bike sign on them, with lots of pedestrian traffic to boot.

Many pavements are wide, have few pedestrians and run alongside busy roads but aren't designated as cycle paths.

This makes no sense, which is one reason why this recurring debate never goes anywhere - you can't come to a sensible conclusion if nothing makes sense to begin with.


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## kevcampbell (4 Aug 2010)

snailracer said:


> As far as I can tell, there is no relationship between legality and pedestrian safety when riding on pavements.
> 
> Many cycle "paths" are narrow pavements with the odd bike sign on them, with lots of pedestrian traffic to boot.
> 
> ...



i don't think the police in dagenham care, i think they just care around the more major cities like central london, there are so many mad drivers in dagenham, sometimes you have to stay on the pavement, too many boys in corsa's and fiesta's


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## threebikesmcginty (4 Aug 2010)

Norm said:


> I thought I was going to be looking all night for exciting postcards of Solihull, but I'm going to give up now as I don't think I'll ever be able to beat the Edwardian cycling lovelies in this view of the High Street.



Good grief man! Ladies on bicycles, it'll be the vote next and then where will we be...splutter, cough, choke ... thud


Nice find, Norm


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## jimboalee (4 Aug 2010)

Norm said:


> I thought I was going to be looking all night for exciting postcards of Solihull, but I'm going to give up now as I don't think I'll ever be able to beat the Edwardian cycling lovelies in this view of the High Street.




The horse and cart on the right hand side is standing outside a pub which was called 'The Malt Shovel'. John Constable sat and painted a scene of a horse and carriage waiting outside the pub, viewed from the pavement opposite ( Corner of High St and Dog lane ).

He was a guest at the Granville's home and presented the painting to the family. The Granville's home later became a girl's school and the Constable painting went missing.

Check your attic for 'The lost Constable'. Its worth £20m.


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## jimboalee (4 Aug 2010)

Norm said:


> I thought I was going to be looking all night for exciting postcards of Solihull, but I'm going to give up now as I don't think I'll ever be able to beat the Edwardian cycling lovelies in this view of the High Street.




The one lady is in 'Dominant primary' and the other has Scalped her on the other side of the friggin' road


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## iAmiAdam (4 Aug 2010)

I do and will continue to cycle on the pavements, for the one day I cycled on the road, I got stupidly passed by two cars and left hooked by an ambulance. Good job I was on the ball.


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## RedBike (4 Aug 2010)

The vast majority of cyclists I see commuting ride on the pavement. In fact it's rare that I see a cyclist on the road!


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## Midnight (4 Aug 2010)

[QUOTE 1148415"]
... Or is it just because the cheapest solution to the requirement is to put up a bunch of shared use signs?
[/quote]

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there.


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## Hockeynut (4 Aug 2010)

Midnight said:


> Confidence - Self-assurance, feeling of certainty, trust.
> Ability - Skill, competence, dexterity, aptitude.
> 
> If someone lacks the trust and/or competence to cycle on the roads then how is that not a training issue? If they want to improve their confidence and handling skills, there are plenty of places to practice without cycling on the pavement.



This thread is definitely making for some interesting reading. My gf & I have only recently got bikes (after years of not cycling). And until we are feeling more confident and stable to ride on busier roads, we are taking the pavement, but only where it's not busy with pedestrians. This is until we've built up a bit of confidence. However, we wouldn't do this in a pedestrian dense area, like a town centre.


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## Peter10 (4 Aug 2010)

ManiaMuse said:


> I really don't see the point in those MTB cops.
> 
> I mean, why do they need front suspension? Surely a hybrid style bike would be more suitable to their needs (pretty much all roads/pavements). I would have thought that a bike chase along a rough track would be pretty rare.
> 
> ...



You would be surprised where some of them end up going on bikes to deal with crimes. They don't always use bikes to chase criminals, they use it to attend calls & appointments which don't require a car. They also use them to patrol areas which are too large to be done on foot (or wouldn't be practical to do on foot). 

The course is only done for liability reasons, that way, the health and safety executive can say "You were shown how to use the bike safely and what equipment you needed. It is your fault you crashed (unless hit by a car etc)" That way, compensation will be lower. It also covers someone who may drop dead from a congenital illness. The force will be covered due to the fitness test they have to do. The police have to cover all aspects of health and safety. There is another course that covers chasing suspects, which is more about dealing with traffic & road conditions, again so if someone crashes, they can prove they were given training. Also, it is a way for the force to know that people can actually ride a bike safely, some people don't learn how to ride as a child.

To be honest, I get really frustrated at people who criticise the police who don't have a clue what they need to do (not aimed at the person I am quoting here btw I was just answering his questions). I know of many police officers who have made some significant arrests from being on bikes, riding 5mph two abreast. They see things that the average Joe doesn't, simply because they are intentionally looking for it and have experience of what to look for. The police is full of health and safety rules, down to how long their high visibilty jacket sleeves must be. I could rant on all day, but some people wont ever understand.


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## summerdays (4 Aug 2010)

I find the cops on bikes are the most approachable side of the police force. Whether just a passing smile, and a feeling of someone sharing your experience, to the other end when I have met them when I have wanted to talk about a problem with them.


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## Dunbar (5 Aug 2010)

I find this talk about 'Bobbies on Bicycles' somewhat nostalgic. It's nothing new is it? Roger Miller even sang about them:

''Engaland" swings like a pendulum do', Bobbies on bicycles two by two!' 


Before the accursed Panda Car ruined the job in 1967, cycling and walking were the two ways most of the Plod got about. The bike was considered a luxurious break from walking the beat!

My only issue is the way some of these cycling law enforcers scream around in pedestrianised areas. Doing precisely what they are supposed to prevent! 

John


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## jimboalee (5 Aug 2010)

Dunbar said:


> I find this talk about 'Bobbies on Bicycles' somewhat nostalgic. It's nothing new is it? Roger Miller even sang about them:
> 
> ''Engaland" swings like a pendulum do', Bobbies on bicycles two by two!'
> 
> ...



See post #12.

Maybe... The cycling law enforcers are responding to a shoplifting or pickpocket or handbag snatch.

In which case, they should have an audible warning.


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## Dunbar (5 Aug 2010)

Ref audible warning:

Maybe they should have them; maybe they do have them. I imagine they do, but maybe they don't think to use the warning. Who knows? 

I have also seen them riding along as if in a 'slow-bicycle' race. Chatting to one another, not really watching where they are going. I wouldn't say that was an emergency situation. Rather one where they should be walking the bike. 

I fully understand and applaud Police use of bikes. But some of these young officers do need to be given Public-awareness training. I.e, they have to perceive how they are being seen by the public; or would that be too drastic a step, in this age of 'I am inboard Jack, so let me pull up the ladder and you can swim for it!'

John


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## Midnight (5 Aug 2010)

Dunbar said:


> I find this talk about 'Bobbies on Bicycles' somewhat nostalgic. It's nothing new is it? Roger Miller even sang about them:
> 
> ''Engaland" swings like a pendulum do', Bobbies on bicycles two by two!'




Jimboalee's reference to 'England swings...' reminded me of the song. I couldn't resist the 'Bobbies on bicycles...' reference.


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## zacklaws (5 Aug 2010)

This should explain it all, and many other topics that crop up here, found it by accident:-

http://www.bikeforal...and_the_law.php


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