# Increasing cadence



## maxfox44 (22 Aug 2018)

Good Evening All

I'm looking for advice/links to help me pedal faster.

Currently, I pedal at a natural 75 revs, I just seem to stick to that unless I really focus on the Garmin.

I know that the pros spin 100+ and I'm lead to believe that I'd be more efficient at higher revs than I am now. 

Any info would be greatly appreciated


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## Milkfloat (22 Aug 2018)

It will take time. Ignoring the question if it will be of any help to you, If you really want to increase then aim to raise your average 5 or so RPM for a ride and ignore all other metrics, after a couple of weeks of riding raise it again.


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## MikeG (22 Aug 2018)

Ride a gear down from the one you would normally use. I ride at a much higher cadence than others in my club, and I'm always in a lower gear than them. The two go hand in hand. Riding is an endurance event, not a test of strength.


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## maxfox44 (22 Aug 2018)

Milkfloat said:


> It will take time. Ignoring the question if it will be of any help to you, If you really want to increase then aim to raise your average 5 or so RPM for a ride and ignore all other metrics, after a couple of weeks of riding raise it again.



I’ll try that, thanks!!!


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## maxfox44 (22 Aug 2018)

MikeG said:


> Ride a gear down from the one you would normally use. I ride at a much higher cadence than others in my club, and I'm always in a lower gear than them. The two go hand in hand. Riding is an endurance event, not a test of strength.



It's odd, I shift down and unless I keep looking at the screen I slow down to 75 again.


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## Spoons47 (22 Aug 2018)

I’m only a beginner but cadence is my thing, just drop down a gear, it may feel like your going knowhere if your on an incline but just enjoy the ride, the fresh air and the feeling of your heart getting healthier day by day.


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## Spoons47 (22 Aug 2018)

I don’t even use a computer. Once I have counted how many times my knee comes up in 15 secs with the help of app on Apple Watch, I instinctively know the rate I should be at.


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## Venod (22 Aug 2018)

Get rid of your higher gears, I use a 46/36 with 11--32 cassette, my times are no different to 50/34 but I think my average cadence has risen.


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## Tin Pot (22 Aug 2018)

maxfox44 said:


> Good Evening All
> 
> I'm looking for advice/links to help me pedal faster.
> 
> ...




I did it on a turbo trainer. Intervals at over 100rpm on up to 120rpm. Once you do that for a few months, keeping a steady 90-95rpm doesn’t seem nearly as hard as it did originally.

Only tip would be to be patient. If you’re losing form, ease down a bit. I think it’s easier to monitor on a turbo, plus you can keep the resistance low unlike outdoors.


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## SkipdiverJohn (22 Aug 2018)

The reason pros ride at high cadences is exactly the same reason a F1 racing car engine will rev much higher than the engine in the car you do your shopping in. Power is Torque x Speed, so for a given leg strength the faster you can pedal the more power you can develop. For a non-competitive cyclist there is no benefit to pushing your cadence outside the range at which it is naturally comfortable. "Efficiency" is not really important unless you wanted to ride the maximum possible distance on the minimum amount of food intake. The human body is not very efficient at converting food into energy anyway. In energy conversion terms a low cadence is likely to be more efficient than a high one, because spinning your legs takes energy regardless of whether you are producing any useful power. Disconnect your chain and spin your pedals at 100+ RPM with no load and see how long you can keep it up for before you tire of it! You'll soon get fed up with it.


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## Seevio (22 Aug 2018)

I seem to recall GCN doing a marginally scientific experiment where they concluded that the best cadence is the one that feels natural to you. Having said that, I have no idea whether your cadence increases as you get fitter and faster or you just select a higher gear.

For comparison, in this years Tour de France, Chris Froome, who spins like a hamster on speed, was beaten by Geraint Thomas who pedals a whole lot slower.


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## derrick (22 Aug 2018)

Seevio said:


> I seem to recall GCN doing a marginally scientific experiment where they concluded that the best cadence is the one that feels natural to you. Having said that, I have no idea whether your cadence increases as you get fitter and faster or you just select a higher gear.
> 
> For comparison, in this years Tour de France, Chris Froome, who spins like a hamster on speed, was beaten by Geraint Thomas who pedals a whole lot slower.


Yes we all have a speed we are happy to spin at.you just have to find yours.


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## Sharky (23 Aug 2018)

Try this technique that I sometimes use to keep my speed up:-

Starting with either leg, really push down hard once. Then count 123 and on the third rev, push down hard with the other leg and repeat.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Aug 2018)

Seevio said:


> I seem to recall GCN doing a marginally scientific experiment where they concluded that the best cadence is the one that feels natural to you..



Agreed. We are not all the same....
Ditch the garmin.
If you want to go faster, do intervals and/or join a club.


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## Tin Pot (23 Aug 2018)

maxfox44 said:


> Good Evening All
> 
> I'm looking for advice/links to help me pedal faster.
> 
> ...



Ignore the discouraging posts - you’re doing the right thing in learning to spin faster and easier.


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## Fab Foodie (23 Aug 2018)

Tin Pot said:


> Ignore the discouraging posts - you’re doing the right thing in learning to spin faster and easier.


Why?


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## raleighnut (23 Aug 2018)

75 rpm isn't really low cadence anyway, it's not like you're grinding a big gear.


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## slowmotion (23 Aug 2018)

Deactivate your front derailleur and use the 34 tooth chainring all the time. I had that forced on me when my front derailleur packed up on an Oxford-London ride. Due to laziness, I remained on the 34T for a year or more.

BTW, it didn't make me a better cyclist but my cadence increased.


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## Blue Hills (23 Aug 2018)

I had the impression that a high cadence was less tiring/better on the knees.

I know I did the dynamo one year making an effort to keep the cadence up and I just seemed to breeze it.


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## TonySJ (23 Aug 2018)

I'm at the same point as the OP. My average cadence for virtually every ride is 72rpm.
I have been cycling 2 years in December and I feel my fitness is good for my age.
I'm 55yrs your and average 17mph on a 1000ft per 10 mile ride.
I tried to cycle my usual 17 mile training ride which has 1300ft of elevation at 95rpm cadence. I was totally fooked and slower than normal.
I don't think high cadence suits everyone who only ride for recreation, the pros well that's different...


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## vickster (23 Aug 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I had the impression that a high cadence was less tiring/better on the knees.
> 
> I know I did the dynamo one year making an effort to keep the cadence up and I just seemed to breeze it.


Pedalling faster actually hurts my knackered knee much more than a lower cadence with more resistance.


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## Blue Hills (23 Aug 2018)

vickster said:


> Pedalling faster actually hurts my knackered knee much more than a lower cadence with more resistance.


interesting - my knees are fine but I did have the impression that I was using less energy. I do know that many beginner cyclists do tend to use a low cadence, sort of thinking that that the increased resistance means that they are somehow using the "advantage" of gearing more. Always makes me think of stalling on my long distant car driving lessons.

I also remember being puzzled/impressed by some old school CTC folk I used to cycle with - behind them, and a fair bit younger in years, it dawned on me that their pedalling looked way more relaxed than mine.


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## vickster (23 Aug 2018)

My aim now is simply to get from A-B with as little pain as possible, while I wait for surgery that means avoiding hills. Doesn't really matter as long as it works for you


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## Venod (23 Aug 2018)

When I was younger I could push big gears I was doing a lot of running at the time so I used to think it would strengthen my legs for the hills, 
Now I am older I am definitely a spinner, I managed 60mile @ 18mph average with an average cadence of 100 a couple of years ago, most rides are between 85 to 95 average.


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## mgs315 (23 Aug 2018)

Agreed on positive sentiments towards spinning here. I just find it way less knackering for a whole ride duration. My CV system can recover in seconds to minutes whereas that force through the legs will be with me for the rest of the way.

My low gear is 34-32 and you know what I don’t have any qualms using it despite climbing being a comparative strong point for me (I’m little). If it helps me keep my cadence where I want it I’ll happily spin away at 90-100rpm up a hill. Much rather that than destroy my quads and knees.


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## Blue Hills (23 Aug 2018)

Afnug said:


> When I was younger I could push big gears I was doing a lot of running at the time so I used to think it would strengthen my legs for the hills, .



 yes, rings true, I think it's some sort of religious idea about pain/suffering/work being good for you. Whereas it has long seemed to me that technology (post galileo/archimedes or whoever) can actually give you the result without the pain.


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## CXRAndy (24 Aug 2018)

90-95 is sufficient to keep legs fresh for endurance riding, it took me a winter to practice and go from 80 to 95 rpm


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## CXRAndy (24 Aug 2018)

Long climbs try and stay above 80rpm, adjust gearing to achieve this. shorter climb you can let cadence drop to 70rpm. Long distance rides it's much easier on your legs to keep a higher cadence. ignore speed, ride to a fast comfortable cadence and lower zone 2-3 heart rate


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## huwsparky (24 Aug 2018)

I don't believe solely working on cadence is of any benefit whatsoever. As your fitness/power increases your cadence will naturally increase as a by-product of becoming a more powerful cyclist. Having a higher cadence doesn't really mean anything on it's own. 

Usually before any workout on the turbo I have a 15min warmup which finishes on 120rpm which at the resistance I'm pedaling equates to about 330w. The 120rmp is the last 2min of the warmup which usually see's me at about 95% of HR max. In general riding at around 85rpm I can make this power way way easier at probably around 80% HR max. My point being. I can (like anyone) spin at 120 or whatever but no way is that my most efficient way of making a deisred output. There's no point forcing a perticular cadence as it's meaningless. Concentrate on making more power and the rest will look after itself.


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## Fab Foodie (24 Aug 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Long climbs try and stay above 80rpm, adjust gearing to achieve this. shorter climb you can let cadence drop to 70rpm. Long distance rides it's much easier on your legs to keep a higher cadence. ignore speed, ride to a fast comfortable cadence and lower zone 2-3 heart rate


Frankly I’d find that impossible*
Again, where is the proof that high cadence is any kind of universal panacea for bike riding?

I’m not convinced that low cadence is particulary bad for knees either....

*I rode 2 years with a club constantly being told to spin and I simply didn’t improve until going back to my natural cadence. I have tried...


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## roadrash (24 Aug 2018)

it will never cease to baffle me when someone tries something different, be it altering cadence or whatever , and find it better for them and go on to tell everyone else who isn't doing the same that they are wrong, everyone is different , there is no carved in stone right or wrong way.


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## Fab Foodie (24 Aug 2018)

roadrash said:


> it will never cease to baffle me when someone tries something different, be it altering cadence or whatever , and find it better for them and go on to tell everyone else who isn't doing the same that they are wrong, everyone is different , there is no carved in stone right or wrong way.


Indeed. Experimentation is better than dogma....


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## crazyjoe101 (24 Aug 2018)

I changed from 80 avg to 90 avg to try things out and after a few weeks to adjust I personally experienced less cramping in my calves and fewer knee issues. Anecdotally at least, it seems easier to maintain a hard effort at around 90-100, I find it uncomfortable to try and accelerate or make strenuous efforts much below 80 although climbing is different.


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## Milkfloat (24 Aug 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> Indeed. Experimentation is better than dogma....



I don’t know, even with the Sky connection, I have always fancied a Dogma.


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## CXRAndy (26 Aug 2018)

huwsparky said:


> I don't believe solely working on cadence is of any benefit whatsoever. As your fitness/power increases your cadence will naturally increase as a by-product of becoming a more powerful cyclist. Having a higher cadence doesn't really mean anything on it's own.
> 
> Usually before any workout on the turbo I have a 15min warmup which finishes on 120rpm which at the resistance I'm pedaling equates to about 330w. The 120rmp is the last 2min of the warmup which usually see's me at about 95% of HR max. In general riding at around 85rpm I can make this power way way easier at probably around 80% HR max. My point being. I can (like anyone) spin at 120 or whatever but no way is that my most efficient way of making a deisred output. There's no point forcing a perticular cadence as it's meaningless. Concentrate on making more power and the rest will look after itself.



I make the most power at 75rpm, but this is no good , when riding long distance or racing. I tend to ride nearer to a 100rpm, keeping legs fresh, whilst putting more demand on my heart lungs(increased heart rate) . Heart/Lungs recover much faster than tired legs . Nearer the end of a long ride/race I can let the cadence drop and use the stored glycogen in my legs for power.

That is the reason to spin at a higher cadence. You may lose a tiny portion of power but will have much more leg strength later on.


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## CXRAndy (26 Aug 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> Frankly I’d find that impossible*
> Again, where is the proof that high cadence is any kind of universal panacea for bike riding?
> 
> I’m not convinced that low cadence is particulary bad for knees either....
> ...



For endurance or longer races, then using a higher cadence is the optimal way . I use a wide range of gear setups for my main two bikes. My TT bike has a 56t crank and I usually use 13,12,11t @75rpm for 10-25mile TT s. On my touring bike I have a triple crank with 48/36/26t either with a 11-32 Cass or 11-40 for mountain climbs. The lowest crank allows me to climb any gradient whilst maintaining a high cadence. This in invaluable when making the last big hill after 8+hours in the saddle doing mountain passes. 

If you start out at 70ish rpm your legs will be shot near the end of the day and there is nowhere to go with cadence if you start at 70rpm .


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## Heltor Chasca (16 Sep 2018)

From the coaching notes on TrainerRoad, I understand a lot of getting your increased cadence is down to neurological learning. The body basically learns to pedal at a higher frequency. 

I note from yesterday’s 200+km ride, my average cadence (including coasting, stopping etc) was 85rpm and my max was 120rpm. Interesting to me only I suspect.

All of this said, a friend who is a vastly superior cyclist to the average Joe like myself, grinds so slowly it almost looks painful. But he squeezes out an annual hill climbing championship every year and does really well in his age category, so it isn’t wrong. It’s just different to mine.


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## CXRAndy (17 Sep 2018)

There have and will always be both ends of the spectrum, Jan Ullrich-grinder, Lance Armstrong-spin. It really depends on whether your joints can handle the strain. Alot can't especially as we get older. The only plus to low cadence it runs the hr at a lower level


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## raleighnut (17 Sep 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> There have and will always be both ends of the spectrum, Jan Ullrich-grinder, Lance Armstrong-spin. It really depends on whether your joints can handle the strain. Alot can't especially as we get older. The only plus to low cadence it runs the hr at a lower level


Yep the trick is finding the balance, I think it comes with experience.


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## mustang1 (17 Sep 2018)

As a side track public announcement, I would like to warn everyone that "cadence" has become a buzzword in business circles. The other day I heard "we need to increase the cadence with this". FFS.


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## DaveReading (17 Sep 2018)

Blue Hills said:


> I had the impression that a high cadence was less tiring/better on the knees.



There was a thread on here a year or two back about whether, all other things being equal, grinding in a high gear was worse for the knees than spinning in a higher gear.

I think we all agreed to differ.


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## maxfox44 (18 Sep 2018)

I sort of wish I'd never have asked, looking at the obvious can of worms I've opened.

Anyway, in the last couple of weeks I have increased my cad by about 10. I've determined this by seeing what speed I naturally go at when I'm not concentrating on revs. Seems to have improved my overall time on my usual commute too.


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## maxfox44 (18 Sep 2018)

Dogtrousers said:


> I still intend to buy a cadence sensor one day. Just because I don't have the slightest clue what my cadence is. I'm sure I'll get some interesting data out of it. Useful ... probably not. Interesting ... certainly!


That is why I bought one, I had no idea and before anyone says, count your knees going up and down.....


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## CXRAndy (19 Sep 2018)

If you do buy a cadence sensor, buy the version where you put a magnet on the crank arm and sensor on the stay. The non magnetic versions whilst being neater in package are susceptible to road vibrations and can give odd readings. I had this on my TT bike, I couldn't tell with accuracy what my cadence was, so went back to the older design-now I have reliable numbers without the cadence jumping all over the place


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Sep 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> If you do buy a cadence sensor, buy the version where you put a magnet on the crank arm and sensor on the stay. The non magnetic versions whilst being neater in package are susceptible to road vibrations and can give odd readings. I had this on my TT bike, I couldn't tell with accuracy what my cadence was, so went back to the older design-now I have reliable numbers without the cadence jumping all over the place



Or another option: One that you can clip to your shoe.


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## Blue Hills (19 Sep 2018)

Are you sure that isn't a tagging system for ducks?


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## HLaB (20 Sep 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> If you do buy a cadence sensor, buy the version where you put a magnet on the crank arm and sensor on the stay. The non magnetic versions whilst being neater in package are susceptible to road vibrations and can give odd readings. I had this on my TT bike, I couldn't tell with accuracy what my cadence was, so went back to the older design-now I have reliable numbers without the cadence jumping all over the place


I find the exact opposite the newer type for me is more stable and doesn't give me the stupid spikes (cadence of 200+rpm) that the older ones would give.


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## CXRAndy (22 Sep 2018)

My cadence drills are coming along nicely, getting upto 3hrs non stop training/pedalling with cadence mid to high nineties rpm


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