# ipayroadtax.com



## Tyres (22 Aug 2010)

Having searched this forum and found no results I thought I'd share this interesting website for all here:
http://ipayroadtax.com/

Sorry if folks already know about this. But I really like this


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## wafflycat (23 Aug 2010)

I don't. Considering there's no such tax... and this is simply playing to the myth as opposed to correcting the myth. 

The average moton is not going to get the 'irony' of the cycling shirt & fake tax disk.


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## TheDoctor (23 Aug 2010)

TBH, Waffles, the average moton doesn't get a right lot IME.


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## wafflycat (23 Aug 2010)

TheDoctor said:


> TBH, Waffles, the avarage moton doesn't get a right lot IME.




I agree. Which is why I don't think the 'irony' will be understood. Best stick with the simple truth, IMO to simply tell the average moton that he/she is a simple soul and needs to simply understand that there is no such tax as 'road tax' Of course, when you've got the major car manufacturers doing deals on 'road tax' being given away as part of the latest finance initiative to purchase a car, or how the latest model means reduced or no 'road tax' to pay, perhaps it's the manufacturers who need a kick up the metaphoric?


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## 661-Pete (23 Aug 2010)

Why bother? I use the expression 'tax disc' often enough. Indeed, when I'm queueing at the Post Office (Yes! I prefer to do it the old-fashioned way), I don't start thinking, 'I'm getting my VED disc'. When I reach the counter I ask for a 'tax disc'. When the first of the month comes round and I dutifully stick it on the windscreen, I'm thinking of it as a 'tax disc'. Nothing else.

I admit, sometimes I may be guilty of a bit of pedantry - on this forum too! May I redress things by insisting, *it really doesn't matter*!

What's far more meaningful to the motorist maybe, is to retort: "I pay for a tax disc too, although my car's parked on the drive out of everyone's way". I appreciate that not every cyclist has that up their sleeve.


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## benb (23 Aug 2010)

661-Pete said:


> What's far more meaningful to the motorist maybe, is to retort: "I pay for a tax disc too, although my car's parked on the drive out of everyone's way". I appreciate that not every cyclist has that up their sleeve.



They'll probably think you're lying. I mean, why would anyone cycle if they have a perfectly serviceable car available? Madness.


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## adscrim (23 Aug 2010)

VED is actually a road tax though isn't it? While it's not a tax that pays for the roads, it is a tax that more polluting users, with vehicles younger than a certain age, have to pay in order to use the roads. Even the direct gov website montions 'road tax' in the same breath as 'car tax' and 'vehicle tax'.

The most accurate retort for most of us is 'yes I do!' as most of us contribute to gov coffers in some way.


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## wafflycat (23 Aug 2010)

adscrim said:


> VED is actually a road tax though isn't it? While it's not a tax that pays for the roads, it is a tax that more polluting users, with vehicles younger than a certain age, have to pay in order to use the roads. Even the direct gov website montions 'road tax' in the same breath as 'car tax' and 'vehicle tax'.
> 
> The most accurate retort for most of us is 'yes I do!' as most of us contribute to gov coffers in some way.


No, VED is a tax on motor vehicles, specifically payable by the registered keeper of a motor vehicle. 
I use a motor vehicle on the roads and I don't pay VED on it - when I use DH's vehicle. 


It is NOT a tax on 'roads', nor do you have to pay it to legitimately use a motor on the roads...


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## adscrim (23 Aug 2010)

wafflycat said:


> No, VED is a tax on motor vehicles, specifically payable by the registered keeper of a motor vehicle.
> I use a motor vehicle on the roads and I don't pay VED on it - when I use DH's vehicle.
> 
> 
> It is NOT a tax on 'roads', nor do you have to pay it to legitimately use a motor on the roads...




But it has to be paid for the vehicle to be used on the road should that vehicle be applicable under the tax regulations - hence the SORN, if the vehicle is off the road there is no need to pay VED.


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## wafflycat (23 Aug 2010)

adscrim said:


> But it has to be paid for the vehicle to be used on the road should that vehicle be applicable under the tax regulations - hence the SORN, if the vehicle is off the road there is no need to pay VED.




It is a motor vehicle tax, NOT a road tax. In order to *use* the machine on the road, where you drive it, you have to have a valid driving licence. VED merely gives a legitimate reason to have a motor vehicle parked on the public highway in such a way as to not cause an obstruction... it gives no right or licence to *use* the motor. For that you need other things. Indeed I can *use* a motor vehicle entirely legally without paying VED.


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## adscrim (23 Aug 2010)

wafflycat said:


> It is a motor vehicle tax, NOT a road tax. In order to *use* the machine on the road, where you drive it, you have to have a valid driving licence. VED merely gives a legitimate reason to have a motor vehicle parked on the public highway in such a way as to not cause an obstruction... it gives no right or licence to *use* the motor. For that you need other things. Indeed I can *use* a motor vehicle entirely legally without paying VED.




You still need a tax disc for the vehicle to legally be on the road, even those exempt for the payment of VED still have to go through the VED process and display a valid disc. I'm not saying the payment of VED provides a greater right to one road user over another. I'm saying that in the majority of cases for private road users, they have had to pay VED in order to use the road legally. As such, the argument that they don't pay road tax is not going to wash with them.


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## wafflycat (23 Aug 2010)

adscrim said:


> You still need a tax disc for the vehicle to legally be on the road, even those exempt for the payment of VED still have to go through the VED process and display a valid disc. I'm not saying the payment of VED provides a greater right to one road user over another. I'm saying that in the majority of cases for private road users, they have had to pay VED in order to use the road legally. As such, the argument that they don't pay road tax is not going to wash with them.



That doesn't alter the fact that they are in error if they believe they pay 'road tax' as there is no such tax.


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## Bad Company (23 Aug 2010)

As somebody said before does it really matter? Call it tax or call it duty it's a cost involved in running a vehicle.


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## spire (23 Aug 2010)

I think the site merely serves to confuse the issue more. Even for folk like us who are interested in the topic, you have to work hard to follow their line of reasoning.


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## Davidc (23 Aug 2010)

Just call it car tax

"My car's too economical to pay car tax" is a good response - even if it isn't true


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## Norm (23 Aug 2010)

wafflycat said:


> That doesn't alter the fact that they are in error if they believe they pay 'road tax' as there is no such tax.


None of which changes the point that, when told that I shouldn't be on the roads because I don't pay road tax, my reply of "I have three cars and two motorbikes, I pay all the tax I need to pay" will get the attention of the average, or below average, motorists far better than all the pedantic stuff about the difference between a tax and a duty.

Better answer yet, though, is often to ask the driver whether the car is theirs or a company vehicle. I urinated all over one colleague's fire when I asked him how much road tax he paid on his company Saab.


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## sgw (23 Aug 2010)

Norm said:


> my reply of "I have three cars and two motorbikes, I pay all the tax I need to pay" will get the attention of the average, or below average, motorists far better than all the pedantic stuff about the difference between a tax and a duty.



Perhaps...

But it also plays along with the ignorant motorists assumption that paying VED gives them some right of priority over those who don't.

In fact it implies that _you _agree with such a misconception to a degree.

(I am sure you don't.  )


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## yello (24 Aug 2010)

Bad Company said:


> As somebody said before does it really matter? Call it tax or call it duty it's a cost involved in running a vehicle.



Indeed. And I believe it was bonj in one of his moments of lucidity. 

He went further; it actually makes the cyclist appear anal and pedantic to thrust an essentially semantic point forward as some kind of knock out argument. I could see his thinking.


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## martint235 (24 Aug 2010)

Well I actually have one of the cycling tops and for whatever reason, I haven't had the road tax conversation with a motorist whilst wearing it. I agree that they probably don't get the irony of it, I think it just rams it down their throat in such a way as they realise they have to find another "failing" to berate me with (and I must have many cos I still have "conversations" with drivers )


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## Norm (24 Aug 2010)

yello said:


> He went further; it actually makes the cyclist appear anal and pedantic to thrust an essentially semantic point forward as some kind of knock out argument. I could see his thinking.


Indeed, although many do still seem hung up on the semantics. Fine for a reasoned pseudo-intellectual debate from the comfort of the armchair. Take it to the motoring forums, take it to the Daily Mail but it'll mean two parts of sod all to someone intent in asserting his position from inside a tin box.


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## benb (24 Aug 2010)

They should rename it "emissions surcharge"


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## Riding in Circles (24 Aug 2010)

Just ask a driver how much of of the money spent on a tax disc is actually spent on the roads. The answer should be none as the roads are paid for from general taxation like income tax, that is the whole point of the website in the OP, however I agree that that the average plank who shouts abuse about "road tax" will not be able to grasp either the irony or the argument.


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## benb (24 Aug 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> Just ask a driver how much of of the money spent on a tax disc is actually spent on the roads. The answer should be none as the roads are paid for from general taxation like income tax, that is the whole point of the website in the OP, however I agree that that the average plank who shouts abuse about "road tax" will not be able to grasp either the irony or the argument.



More accurately, some of the income from VED _may _end up being spent on roads, but there's no way of knowing, as it's not ringfenced in that way, from any source. You can just as easily say that the VAT from buying crisps pays for the roads.


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## ComedyPilot (24 Aug 2010)

Wouldn't a simple answer to, "You don't pay road tax!" be the accurate reply, "No, I don't, great innit?"

Might get a few more swinging a leg over iron?


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## MartinC (25 Aug 2010)

I agree that gettiing involved in semantics is a waste of time, especially when arguing with the ignorant. The simple fact is that everyone who pays tax in the UK pays road tax. No harm in pointing that out.


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## yello (25 Aug 2010)

MartinC said:


> The simple fact is that everyone who pays tax in the UK pays road tax. No harm in pointing that out.



Absolutely! I wholeheartedly agree.

Next time someone says 'I pay my road tax', the answer is 'so do I'. 

Getting all anal about it (e.g. saying 'well, no you don't because road tax was abolished in blah blah blah vehicle emissions duty blah blah zero rated blah blah') is a waste of your time, imo. Get to the nub of the argument; challenge their assumption that the road is somehow theirs by virtue of paying this tax, whatever it may be called. To do that effectively, you have to use exactly the same terminology they would use but in a non-confrontational way.


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## benb (25 Aug 2010)

I think you can say something like "roads are paid for out of all taxation, so yes I do pay for the roads just as much as you do"
It's concise, yet doesn't perpetuate the "tax disc" myth.


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## spire (26 Aug 2010)

benb said:


> I think you can say something like "roads are paid for out of all taxation, so yes I do pay for the roads just as much as you do"
> It's concise, yet doesn't perpetuate the "tax disc" myth.



The problem with this, while true, is that a motorist also has to pay directly to use _their_ vehicle on the road, hence their perception of unfair treatment. (I am not defending this BTW.)


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## benb (26 Aug 2010)

spire said:


> The problem with this, while true, is that a motorist also has to pay directly to use _their_ vehicle on the road, hence their perception of unfair treatment. (I am not defending this BTW.)



They should definitely rename it an emissions tax.


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## spire (26 Aug 2010)

benb said:


> They should definitely rename it an emissions tax.



This idea has a lot of merit – whose was it?


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## benb (26 Aug 2010)

spire said:


> This idea has a lot of merit – whose was it?



Mine


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## spire (26 Aug 2010)

benb said:


> Mine



You should write to DfT and your MP – seriously.


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## MartinC (27 Aug 2010)

Road tax has never existed. Road Fund Tax was renamed in 1936 when it became a normal tax. People still refer to it as 'Road Tax' even though it's been Vehicle Excise Duty for years. How will renaming it again change anything? Chairs and Titanic come to mind.


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## Riding in Circles (27 Aug 2010)

benb said:


> They should definitely rename it an emissions tax.



That would resolve the issue and that is certainly what the tax has become.


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## StuartG (27 Aug 2010)

Catrike UK said:


> That would resolve the issue and that is certainly what the tax has become.


Fuel Excise Duty is really an emission tax too.

I really get fed up with this pedentry. I regard both as Road Tax as does nearly everyone else. It is tax derived from using cars (with a few exceptions) on road. That and drink are two special preserves of the Exchequer for extorting money from a source that has almost no price elasticity. That's a blank cheque in taxese.

However, even those of us who have the odd Merlot or three, and well patronise our local hostelry do not expect the government to use that money to provide better drinking facilities. Or even that coke drinkers (aka drink tax evaders) should not be allowed in pubs. Oh, I think I just shot my own fox ...


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