# Anybody had a broken collar bone that wouldn't knit?



## Globalti (17 Oct 2018)

I broke mine almost 9 weeks ago. It seems to have been on track for healing although I've managed to convince myself that I could feel the outboard part moving separately from the collar bone and hence I reckoned it wasn't knitting properly. Saw the consultant a couple of weeks ago and mentioned my concern and in typical orthopaedic consultant fashion he was quite bullish about it: "Look, raising your shoulder is raising the collar bone, which is pushing my hand upwards. Stop worrying about it, lots of collar bones don't knit completely, I have a cycling friend who has a pseudo joint and he cycles miles. It's still better than the risks of surgery and the discomfort of a plate!"

I started physio a few weeks ago and actually after Monday morning's torture session trying to increase the range of movement of the frozen shoulder I felt absolutely fantastic. So that evening I jumped on my new turbo trainer and did 26 minutes on Swift, stopping when it began to feel uncomfortable and the sweat was unbearable. As soon as I stopped I realised I had overdone it; the point of the break felt painful and the healing proces seemed to have gone back weeks, and now I'm even more convinced I can feel movement in the area of the break. I stopped the exercises for 36 hours but even today I'm feeling discomfort and pain in the area of the break. 

Now I know almost nothing about the anatomy of the shoulder so I'm perfectly prepared to accept that I may have just upset the AC joint where the collar bone attaches to the shoulder, generally upset everything and made the shoulder sore. Since the collar bone is now about an inch shorter thanks to the overlapping repair, I may just be feeling movement in the AC joint. But does anybody on here have experience of a non-knitting collar bone and how does your experience match mine? What did it feel like? Could you feel movement or any pain or sensation of grating?

I'm seeing the physio again on Friday but last time I said I thought the joint wasn't healing he was non-committal.


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## raleighnut (17 Oct 2018)

I've had a non-union fracture in my collarbone for years, it's a pain.


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## vickster (17 Oct 2018)

If concerned, get a second opinion privately from the best shoulder surgeon locally

A friend broke hers a few years ago, non union but gets no pain Cycling or otherwise. She saw a surgeon privately who said very much the same as above

I’d give it 6 months and then see how it is


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## Globalti (18 Oct 2018)

Thanks for the cheering news!


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## Drago (18 Oct 2018)

I broke mine as a kid while going for the tree climbing altitude record. I don't really remember it, so presume it healed quickly and cleanly. Now I'm only months away from being 50 I find I don't heal anywhere near as well as even a decade ago.


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## Globalti (18 Oct 2018)

That's what I've already done and shall be doing in 2 weeks. His argument is perfectly well reasoned but it doesn't stop me wishing I could have it plated.


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## fossyant (18 Oct 2018)

It's Zwift - told you twice now ! 

I'd trust the surgeon and give it time before opting for surgery - wouldn't let them near my spine - chose to let it heal as best it could without lots of scaffolding - I'm still in pain, but we know it's not the metalwork, so it's carry on sir ! Just manage the pain.


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## si_c (20 Oct 2018)

I smashed my collarbone into three pieces about 4 years ago, had it surgically repaired, and I can honestly say it was an easy recovery. The plate isn't noticeable, and the scar looks cool.

There is some loss of sensation in the skin around the incision which I was warned might happen, but I don't ever notice it unless I'm looking.

The consultants would rather leave it to heal naturally if possible due to the risks of surgery. I'd ask them to do a CT to get a proper look at how it's healing, and then revisit the idea of surgery.

Don't feel timid about advocating for the best outcome for yourself.


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## raleighnut (21 Oct 2018)

si_c said:


> I smashed my collarbone into three pieces about 4 years ago, had it surgically repaired, and I can honestly say it was an easy recovery. The plate isn't noticeable, and the scar looks cool.
> 
> There is some loss of sensation in the skin around the incision which I was warned might happen, but I don't ever notice it unless I'm looking.
> 
> ...


However in my case the Surgeon didn't want to plate my break as he told me "You're still going to be riding a bike aren't you, if you come off on that shoulder again you'll be in a right mess if it's plated"


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## si_c (21 Oct 2018)

raleighnut said:


> However in my case the Surgeon didn't want to plate my break as he told me "You're still going to be riding a bike aren't you, if you come off on that shoulder again you'll be in a right mess if it's plated"



In my case the consultant didn't seem bothered by that at all. It's possibly a risk, but we should get the opportunity to decide on what's the best option for us.


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## raleighnut (21 Oct 2018)

si_c said:


> In my case the consultant didn't seem bothered by that at all. It's possibly a risk, but we should get the opportunity to decide on what's the best option for us.


It may depend on whereabouts it's broken, I snapped the end off mine (3rd time I've broken that one)


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## si_c (21 Oct 2018)

raleighnut said:


> It may depend on whereabouts it's broken, I snapped the end off mine (3rd time I've broken that one)


Possibly. Surgery was the only option for me as part of the bone was pushing up through the skin. The surgeon did say that they could remove the plate later if needed.


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## Globalti (21 Oct 2018)

That was one of the reasons my consultant cited for not plating and adopting "wait and see".


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## Globalti (2 Nov 2018)

Well that's not good. Had a sudden episode of severe pain today so went to Urgent Care. X ray reveals no sign of any union of the bones. So at least I know I was right when I thought I could feel movement at the break.

Can you also spot the broken rib?

Now what?


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## vickster (2 Nov 2018)

Globalti said:


> Well that's not good. Had a sudden episode of severe pain today so went to Urgent Care. X ray reveals no sign of any union of the bones. So at least I know I was right when I thought I could feel movement at the break.
> 
> Can you also spot the broken rib?
> 
> ...


Get a second opinion from a shoulder expert surgeon  Do you have private insurance to speed the process?


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## Globalti (2 Nov 2018)

Yes the consultant I've been seeing is a specialist in shoulder trauma and I've been seeing him through BUPA. As I explained upthread I agree generally with him that surgery should be avoided if Nature can heal but after 11 weeks of pain in I'm starting to feel the benefits of surgery (return to fitness and psychological wellbeing) are outweighing the risks.


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## vickster (2 Nov 2018)

I'd personally go back and have another conversation, especially regarding the recovery and any future risks if you were to fall again etc. All assuming you can take an extended time off work. I'd think if you had it done now, you'd probably need to be off for a month if you need two arms to do your job effectively


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## Globalti (6 Nov 2018)

Just seen the consultant and he's going to plate it.


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## vickster (6 Nov 2018)

Globalti said:


> Just seen the consultant and he's going to plate it.


Good luck!
When’s it being done?
I’d be prepared for lots of post op pain  based on my experiences of less major elbow and shoulder surgery!


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## Globalti (6 Nov 2018)

It can't be much worse than the broken ribs and frozen shoulder I've had since the accident. Today the consultant seemed more concerned about the shoulder than the bone, he was talking about doing an arthroscopy and leaving the bone for longer!

Should be in the next week or two anyway.


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## vickster (6 Nov 2018)

Globalti said:


> It can't be much worse than the broken ribs and frozen shoulder I've had since the accident. Today the consultant seemed more concerned about the shoulder than the bone, he was talking about doing an arthroscopy and leaving the bone for longer!
> 
> Should be in the next week or two anyway.


My first op led to a frozen shoulder. Resolved eventually with surgery, lots of physio and a steroid injection. Lost a fair bit of ROM though that I’ll never get back

You need a lot of physio within days of capsular release while presumably a plated clavicle needs weeks in a sling to heal?

Rather you than me! At least Christmas is coming and you can rest and rehab


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## Globalti (6 Nov 2018)

I've managed to get back to about 35% movement with physio and exercises but have stopped doing them since the X ray last Friday so it's freezing up again.


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## ColinJ (6 Nov 2018)

Good luck with the op, and the post-op recovery!


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## raleighnut (6 Nov 2018)

Good luck from me too.


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## Globalti (27 Nov 2018)

Well the original surgeon couldn't do the op before Christmas so I found someone else and he did it yesterday. He said the ends would never have joined as they were mixed up with muscle and stuff. Am at home now trying not to move too much. Phew! Just keeping fingers crossed that the bone will wake up and get joined.


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## ColinJ (27 Nov 2018)

Globalti said:


> Well the original surgeon couldn't do the op before Christmas so I found someone else and he did it yesterday. He said the ends would never have joined as they were mixed up with muscle and stuff. Am at home now trying not to move too much. Phew! Just keeping fingers crossed that the bone will wake up and get joined.


Couldn't they see that on any scans or x-rays that you had taken weeks ago?

Anyway, let's hope you _now_ recover quickly!


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## Globalti (27 Nov 2018)

By week 6 I was sure it wasn't mending so I asked my GP for an x-ray but he turned it down and I messaged the consultant but either he didn't get the message or he ignored it. That would have been the ideal time to plate it. Now the bone has gone to sleep so we have to hope the surgeon has managed to wake it up.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Nov 2018)

Keep up the physio exercises. It was numb atound scars for limg time but full range of movement and feeling came back.


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## Globalti (27 Nov 2018)

Well I've also got a frozen shoulder. The original consultant wanted to sort that arthroscopically before plating the collar bone, which seemed a bit bonkers to me and the second consultant thought was mad as well.


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## DCBassman (27 Nov 2018)

Ajax Bay said:


> Looks like it, but don't decry peripheral 'chat' - often more interesting than the thread subject. Are all your 3 crossed rear wheels laced the same way?





Globalti said:


> Well I've also got a frozen shoulder. The original consultant wanted to sort that arthroscopically before plating the collar bone, which seemed a bit bonkers to me and the second consultant thought was mad as well.


Yup, that's nuts. Collar bones always come first, all else being equal, even for such things as arthritis work. THEN you do the shoulder joint...


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## benborp (27 Nov 2018)

Hopefully all goes well with the recovery Globalti. Sorry that you've had to go through all that hassle, I've been in the same place and can tell you that a collar bone excision is a world of pain that you want to avoid.


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## Globalti (28 Nov 2018)

Yes it flippin' hurts. I've stopped taking codeine because it constipated me and was giving me a horrible depression for an hour after taking it, I'm not taking ibuprofen because of the suspicion that it inhibits healing so I'm just relying on paracetamol, which is just about adequate. You've got to take it regularly though.


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## ColinJ (28 Nov 2018)

Globalti said:


> I'm not taking ibuprofen because of the suspicion that it inhibits healing...


It can do a lot worse than that if you overuse it!


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## Globalti (7 Dec 2018)

Today's update is that 12 days after plating it's still pretty sore but I think the pain is coming from the two ends of the collar bone which the surgeon will have had to push apart quite hard to get the shoulder back into its correct position. It now looks the same width as the other shoulder and the armpit isn't uncomfortably closed and sweaty. 

My biggest concern now is the strength of the plated bone. Every morning as I wake up I get a quite pleasant sort of involuntary muscular spasm that goes through the whole shoulder and produces loud clicks and pops. It worries me that the strength of the spasm could loosen the plate. 

I guess that the healing process produces soft gristly material at first, which is quite flexible and so not easily damaged.

Does anybody else have any experience of this slow healing process?


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## fossyant (7 Dec 2018)

Crikey, this has been going on a long time. I was back on my bike within 4 months of badly breaking my spine.

I think plates only move if you crash your bike before the bone has healed.


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## vickster (7 Dec 2018)

I’d say you need rather more time to heal. When do you start with a physio to work on movement and strength? Find a physio who works often with your surgeon’s patients when the time comes

Recovery could take months esp if you also have a frozen shoulder


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## Globalti (7 Dec 2018)

I'm not going to start arranging physio until I've had the first x ray and seen the consultant in a week's time. He is an hour's drive from home so it will need to be a physio closer to me.


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## vickster (7 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> I'm not going to start arranging physio until I've had the first x ray and seen the consultant in a week's time. He is an hour's drive from home so it will need to be a physio closer to me.


Cool. Find one who lists shoulders as a specialty


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## si_c (8 Dec 2018)

After I had my shoulder surgery done, I was able to move my shoulder normally within about a month, and to do normal tasks like moving things around. I didn't get back on the bike for two months though as per the consultants advice. I couldn't carry anything heavy for a month or two though either.

Just let it heal and don't try to rush back to normal as it won't work. The biggest problem I had was that the plate was quite strong and I felt like I could do stuff normally, even though the bone hadn't healed.


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## bianchi1 (8 Dec 2018)

Had mine plated 12 months ago and been great. A bit numb around the scar but no bother. I seem to recall getting back riding (carefully) after about 6 weeks. As mentioned above it's tempting to do too much too soon as the plate feels strong even tho the bone isn't completely fixed. 

I've got an appointment on Wednesday with my consultant about plate removal. It's not a great plan to fall on the sholder with the metal work still in. Or so I have been told. I'll see what he says.


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## Globalti (9 Dec 2018)

bianchi1 said:


> Had mine plated 12 months ago and been great. A bit numb around the scar but no bother. I seem to recall getting back riding (carefully) after about 6 weeks. As mentioned above it's tempting to do too much too soon as the plate feels strong even tho the bone isn't completely fixed.
> 
> I've got an appointment on Wednesday with my consultant about plate removal. It's not a great plan to fall on the sholder with the metal work still in. Or so I have been told. I'll see what he says.



I'm only two weeks in and the pain is slowly diminishing. As far as I can tell most of the pain is coming from the damaged ligaments and muscles around the area, not from the bone itself. My consultant had an interesting metaphor for what happens to the shoulder in a bad crash: put the turkey carcass in a plastic bag and drop it from a height and everything flies around bursting through tissue and causing loads of collateral damage.

What was the sort of timescale you experienced in the healing process, can you remember?


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## si_c (9 Dec 2018)

bianchi1 said:


> Had mine plated 12 months ago and been great. A bit numb around the scar but no bother. I seem to recall getting back riding (carefully) after about 6 weeks. As mentioned above it's tempting to do too much too soon as the plate feels strong even tho the bone isn't completely fixed.
> 
> I've got an appointment on Wednesday with my consultant about plate removal. It's not a great plan to fall on the sholder with the metal work still in. Or so I have been told. I'll see what he says.


I was told by the consultant that they would remove it if necessary, for example if it was causing me pain or uncomfortable - I was concerned about rucksacks as I use one daily - but that the risks of surgery outweighed the risk of leaving it in. To put things into perspective, last year (edit: actually 2 years) I had another impact on the same shoulder and whilst there was ligament damage there was no damage to the bone or plate.

Now, bear in mind that this is purely anecdotal, but it put my mind at ease around the risk of impacts again.


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## bianchi1 (9 Dec 2018)

Globalti said:


> I'm only two weeks in and the pain is slowly diminishing. As far as I can tell most of the pain is coming from the damaged ligaments and muscles around the area, not from the bone itself. My consultant had an interesting metaphor for what happens to the shoulder in a bad crash: put the turkey carcass in a plastic bag and drop it from a height and everything flies around bursting through tissue and causing loads of collateral damage.
> 
> What was the sort of timescale you experienced in the healing process, can you remember?



It was a very quick recovery after the surgery. Pain free within a couple of weeks. Just a bit stiff from lack of movement but with a bit of exercise that also went away. One year on and I don't notice it at all. I damaged some shoulder ligaments in a ski fall a few years ago and that took over a year to improve.


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## Globalti (15 Dec 2018)

Well an update for anybody who's interested. Saw the consultant yesterday, that's 18 days after the op. He was very happy with the x ray and told me to stop wearing the sling around the house, in fact he gave me quite a stern bollocking for allowing my arm and hand to stiffen up, warning me that I was in danger of losing the use of my dominant arm altogether. So I borrowed a springy hand exerciser and have been using that and my powerball and doing stretches and after 24 hours the arm feels much much stronger.

He wouldn't be drawn on whether the bone was mending though.

The pain now is coming from the sternum joint and AC joint at each end of the collar bone. My shoulder has regained it's width and my armpit is no longer squashed shut and festering so the collar bone is back to doing its job as a suspension strut.


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## Globalti (22 Feb 2019)

So six months on from the crash and three months on from the plating and I saw the Sawbones today. He's pleased with the x ray and said "I'd go skiing with that". Next job is to sort the frozen shoulder so I've got an MRI scan on Sunday evening then Sawbones again next Friday.

Gonna take the bike out this weekend to see how it feels. Woohoo!


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## benborp (25 Feb 2019)

Congratulations and good luck with the continued recovery. Riding again should make it all a little easier to get back up to speed.


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## ColinJ (25 Feb 2019)

Globalti said:


> Gonna take the bike out this weekend to see how it feels. Woohoo!


So ... how _did _it feel?


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## Globalti (25 Feb 2019)

Not too bad... legs felt OK thanks to walking, fitness wasn't great, the arms and shoulders felt weak especially the one that's lost all its muscle. Only did 6 flattish miles. Today the frozen shoulder feels a bit less stiff.

Last night I had an MRI scan, which was interesting, the scanner was a beautiful sculpture of plastic lit up like the inside of a Boeing Dreamliner. Lots of wierd buzzing noises and a nice warm sensation. Going to see the Sawbones again Friday to talk about sorting the frozen shoulder.


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## ColinJ (25 Feb 2019)

Well, that still sounds like progress. Good luck with the frozen shoulder. 

I've had a few CT scans but not an MRI. 

If you are ready for a decent ride by then, my annual Whalley - Conder Green ride will be on either the last Saturday in March or the first one in April. We certainly will not be riding quickly.


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## Globalti (17 Mar 2019)

Ten cold windy miles on the bike this afternoon. Not very comfortable and the shoulders felt weak and sitting down now my gut looks horribly podgy but... I made it.


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## ColinJ (17 Mar 2019)

Globalti said:


> Ten cold windy miles on the bike this afternoon. Not very comfortable and the shoulders felt weak... but... I made it.


Well done, that's 8 more than I bothered to do. (I just cycled to the shops and back.)



Globalti said:


> ... now my gut looks horribly podgy...


I know you liked your slim waist, but ..._ join the club_! 

I'm sure that I will shift the last stone or so that I want to lose once the winter is finally over and I ramp up my weekly distance.


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