# The "cowboy" start technique.



## CanucksTraveller (25 Nov 2010)

The cowboy start: If the phrase is alien, the technique (or lack of it) will be familiar: From standing still to the left of your bike, left foot goes on left pedal and pushes down to get some forward movement going, then the right leg swings over the saddle and onto the right pedal to continue pedalling away. 

As I start both ends of my commute in a quiet car park, it's just something I do, and always have done. 

I see that Sheldon Brown condemns the practice as it apparently puts undue transverse stress on the wheels and frame.
Does it really do that much damage, or is he speaking of older bikes? Is it considered such a bad technique and do I need to give up my cowboy ways?

Anyone else here a cowboy?


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## gbb (25 Nov 2010)

Always used to, but for unknown reasons i just stopped doing it, can't even remember when now i think about it.
Perhaps it's because i've had an irrational fear about the pedal snapping off and sending me flying...that does occur to me occasionally. Too much thinking...


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## Hilldodger (25 Nov 2010)

Have done it for years without any problems. 

Sheldon doesn't get everything right.


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## Smokin Joe (25 Nov 2010)

I don't do it, but I can't see what harm it can possibly do. Sheldon was very knowledgeable but did have some quirky ideas.


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## theclaud (25 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254115"]
I used to be, until I fell off doing it. *If you haven't seen the clip I'll post it later*.
[/quote]

Please do!


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## Davidc (25 Nov 2010)

I used to do it, don't know when I stopped but perhaps my body's just not flexible enough any more. The bikes probably are though.

Without calculating or measuring anything my first reaction is that the stresses on wheels and frame in normal riding would be a lot greater than from that.


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## Dan B (25 Nov 2010)

Yes, if my bike frame/wheels couldn't cope with this I'd worry about climbing hills on it ...


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## daddyshambles (25 Nov 2010)

yeah i am a cowboy too


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## Norm (25 Nov 2010)

I dismount cowboy-style but I set off more normally.


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## 661-Pete (25 Nov 2010)

Hilldodger said:


> Have done it for years without any problems.
> 
> Sheldon doesn't get everything right.


Isn't it the *only* way to get started on an 'ordinary'? 

I used to do it as a kid, can't remember when I gave up though. I believe your old-fashioned Bobby on his sit-up-n-beg was trained to do it - maybe it was a quicker way of getting moving in hot pursuit of Burglar Bill?...

I was amused - and a wee bit alarmed - to observe a lady cyclist doing a cowboy mount - the gent's way even though she had a ladies' bike - the other day outside Tescos. Alarmed - because she was pulling a trailer complete with baby on board! . But perhaps she had it worked out, this was the safest way *not* to plant a foot in Junior's face! Anyway baby was unfazed. Likewise adoring Hubby, who was riding solo and who started off in the conventional way...


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## andy_wrx (25 Nov 2010)

Not recommended on a tandem !


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## Iain p (25 Nov 2010)

I mount and dismount cowboy fashion, the missis loves it


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## Iain p (25 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254126"]
If you must
[/quote]


Sorry mate but


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## MossCommuter (25 Nov 2010)

+ 1 for cowboy fashion but oddly I seem to have become one sided - left foot on pedal and right leg over seat where at one time I was equally able on either side.


...cue "too old to get his leg over" gags


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## Muddyfox (25 Nov 2010)

MossCommuter said:


> + 1 for cowboy fashion but oddly I seem to have become one sided - left foot on pedal and right leg over seat where at one time I was equally able on either side.
> 
> 
> ...cue "too old to get his leg over" gags



Mossy .. i had you down as a run alongside and leap on rodeo style kinda bloke  

i can do both sides but i favour right foot on the pedal and swing my left leg over 

Simon


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## MossCommuter (25 Nov 2010)

Muddyfox said:


> Mossy .. i had you down as a run alongside and leap on rodeo style kinda bloke



We _are_ still talking about cycling... aren't we?


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## amnesia (25 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254126"]
If you must
[/quote]

Gotta love the bloke who just walks on by like nothing happened


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## yello (25 Nov 2010)

Used to do it but I reckon I stopped around the same time I started riding with cleats! I just can't imagine trying to clip-in with the leading foot... that's just asking for an off surely?!


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## Peter10 (25 Nov 2010)

Always do it on and off on my mountain bike, never tried with my roadie though.


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## rockyraccoon (25 Nov 2010)

Peter10 said:


> Always do it on and off on my mountain bike, never tried with my roadie though.



+1.. MTB all the time.. cannot do it on my road bike..


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## TheDoctor (25 Nov 2010)

Pfffffffft!!!!


That's very good


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Nov 2010)

Iain p said:


> I mount and dismount cowboy fashion, the missis loves it



with a loud yee-haa! I hope


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## sheddy (25 Nov 2010)

Cycling in a shopping centre ? Tut !


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## Garz (25 Nov 2010)

Ha ha I get it now Paul, how embarrassed were you on a scale of 1-10?


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## tyred (26 Nov 2010)

I've never managed to master it


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## dan_bo (26 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254126"]
If you must
[/quote]

Waheyy!!


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## snailracer (26 Nov 2010)

The "cowboy" start is bad for your wheels and frame, because crashing is bad for your wheels and frame (and everything else).


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## tyred (26 Nov 2010)

There is a old guy of about 75 who comes out on vintage bike rides with us. He has a Rudge three speed sports bike which he bought new in 1951, he still rides it regularily after all these years and always mounts it "cowboy" style. Thinking on Sheldon's article, I asked him if the wheels were still original, and he said they were. I think if a set of wheels cans survive being mounted cowboy style for 59 years, then it doesn't do too much damage.


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## asterix (26 Nov 2010)

Do this mount occasionally. I like the way the frame springs as I climb on!


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## CanucksTraveller (26 Nov 2010)

Overwhelming evidence that it causes no damge then, (save for the crashes). 

I'll stick to my cowboy ways then, (Sorry Sheldon) but I think I'll stop short of ambidextrous mounting. I've never tried it from the right and I feel that the result would probably be another youtube clip. (And thanks for that, very sporting of you!)


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## theclaud (26 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254126"]
If you must
[/quote]

 Thank you.


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## Amanda P (26 Nov 2010)

I remember reading somewhere that the Pashley Mailstar postman's bikes were designed with extra stiffening around the down tube and bottom bracket precisely to resist decades of posties jumping on and off them that way.

If you watch, a frame flexes quite alarmingly around the bottom bracket when you do a cowboy mount. A steel frame could take this for years - and clearly they do - but you have to wonder about alloy or carbon frames, or racing wheels with most of the spokes missing.


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## Dan B (26 Nov 2010)

Isn't increased lateral stiffness supposed to be exactly the advantage of alu/carbon over steel?


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## tyred (26 Nov 2010)

coruskate said:


> Isn't increased lateral stiffness supposed to be exactly the advantage of alu/carbon over steel?


It's still going to flex to a certain extent. Steel is more elastic than carbon or alloy.


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## Chris S (28 Nov 2010)

Either my bike is too high or I'm not flexible enough to do that.

I have to start with my left foot on the ground, bike at a 70 degree angle so that I can sit on it and then push the right pedal.

Is there any disadvantage to this?


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## srw (28 Nov 2010)

[QUOTE 1254153"]
You have to have the bike at an angle to sit on it? If so then it maybe that your seat is to high.
[/quote]

If you're sitting _on_ the saddle then you'll always need the bike at an angle to touch the ground - otherwise your saddle is too low. On my Brompton, with a low BB, it's just about possible to keep the bike stable while sitting on the saddle, but not on our tandem or my touring bike. With both of those, I need to be more or less off the front of the saddle to start.

Back to cowboys - I used to be able to do it, but it's a skill I've lost. I always use the "shimmy through the frame" ladies' style mount on the Brompton, which caused a moment of uncertainty this morning when I tried the same method with a conventional diamond-framed bike...


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## MacB (28 Nov 2010)

I still use it, mounting and dismounting, at times it just depends on the situation, though I'm also getting one side dominant with age. I really can't see how it can put any more pressure on the bike than standing on the pedals when coasting or out of the saddle climbing.


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## threebikesmcginty (28 Nov 2010)

Never tried the cowboy method, I only ever get on, normally, from the left - I didn't realise there was another side, it'd be too weird though and I'd probably just fall over.


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## buggi (28 Nov 2010)

who is this sheldon blokey and why has he suddenly become the be all and end all in cycle advice??? 

I recently was told he said not to pump tyres up to max and all of the reasons why (including tyres splitting which i never have had in 8 years of cycling) bla bla bla. 

so, i didn't

and the first trip out i got a puncture

so now i do. 

besides, we all know that tyres are capable of taking a lot more pressure than what's stated on them, it's only down to the legal-eagles who want to play it safe. Max pressure works for me so why should i change just coz one bloke says i shouldn't?


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## zigzag (28 Nov 2010)

i always mount and dismount cowboy style on my platform pedaled commuter bike, it's just a bit quicker that way. i wouldn't feel safe doing it with clicky pedals, one foot clicked in. what i would like to learn though is to hop on a bike while walking or running, but haven't got the balls to try it out.


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## Smokin Joe (28 Nov 2010)

zigzag said:


> i always mount and dismount cowboy style on my platform pedaled commuter bike, it's just a bit quicker that way. i wouldn't feel safe doing it with clicky pedals, one foot clicked in. what i would like to learn though is to hop on a bike while walking or running, *but haven't got the balls to try it out.*


It's your balls that will let you know if you get it wrong.


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## snailracer (28 Nov 2010)

buggi said:


> who is this sheldon blokey and why has he suddenly become the be all and end all in cycle advice???
> 
> I recently was told he said not to pump tyres up to max and all of the reasons why (including tyres splitting which i never have had in 8 years of cycling) bla bla bla.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should actually go to Sheldon's website and read it for yourself, rather than criticise him based on second-hand information. The late Sheldon Brown was a knowledgable bike mechanic and rider who freely offered advice to anyone who asked, and was great at explaining why rather than expecting people to take it on faith.

In America, Sheldon is a household name, though few have heard of him in the UK.

I used to do cowboy starts, most of the time it worked, except when I crashed! Such as when I forgot I put my shopping in the rear basket and my foot got caught in it. And when I attempted a cowboy going up a steep hill, stalled just before I got my leg over, and CRASH! Then there was the time forgot I had the wrong trousers on, a bit too tight to get the leg over, CRASH!

I can't remember what Sheldon's main objection to cowboy starts is, to me the obvious issue (apart from an increased risk of crashing) is that bike wheels are only strong vertically, and are weak against the lateral forces exerted doing cowboy starts or standing up on the pedals (something else I remember Sheldon cautioning about).

And no, I don't pump my tyres to the max, I can't be bothered to explain why, perhaps Sheldon's website can shed light on why I would do such a preposterous thing.


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## asterix (29 Nov 2010)

tyred said:


> It's still going to flex to a certain extent. Steel is more elastic than carbon or alloy.




Steel is far more resistant to metal fatigue than other frame materials. Whether that's relevant in this case I don't know..


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## Ian H (29 Nov 2010)

It's rather difficult with clipless pedals, even with toeclips and straps, unless you have flexible knees. It's also going to put quite a strain on highly dished wheels.

I'm old enough to (just) remember women in headscarves scooting bikes with full chaincases and skirt-guards from shop to shop, shopping bag hanging from the bars. Only when they'd finished their shopping would they scoot and mount the bike to ride home.


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## Hilldodger (29 Nov 2010)

_I__ can't remember what Sheldon's main objection to cowboy starts is, to me the obvious issue (apart from an increased risk of crashing) is that bike wheels are only strong vertically, and are weak against the lateral forces exerted doing cowboy starts or standing up on the pedals (something else I remember Sheldon cautioning about)._

So, what happens when you lean a bike over in corners.....................


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## Norm (29 Nov 2010)

Hilldodger said:


> So, what happens when you lean a bike over in corners.....................


Is that a serious question, HD? 

Just in case it is (although I thought the answer is pretty obvious!) when you lean the bike in a corner (unless you are a knee-down hero), the forces still act through the vertical axis of the bike.


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## PpPete (29 Nov 2010)

I usually dismount this way, even with clipless pedals. Have to remember not to do so when on the fixed.... results could be very undignified - and painful.


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## Dan B (29 Nov 2010)

snailracer said:


> bike wheels are only strong vertically, and are weak against the lateral forces exerted doing cowboy starts or standing up on the pedals (something else I remember Sheldon cautioning about)




Well, yeah but no but ... I know that TdF riders don't have to care too much about the longevity of their components, but I doubt you'd see many flat stages won by riders who don't stand on the pedals.


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## Smokin Joe (29 Nov 2010)

Norm said:


> Is that a serious question, HD?
> 
> Just in case it is (although I thought the answer is pretty obvious!) when you lean the bike in a corner (unless you are a knee-down hero), the forces still act through the vertical axis of the bike.


There must still be a large degree of lateral force going across the spokes as the bike is pushing the hubs out as well as down. Wheels work with the spokes in tension so they will withstand a considerable amount of sideways force.


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## Peter10 (29 Nov 2010)

Just from personal experience, surely more force and energy goes through the crank and frame when standing up cycling uphill in a fairly high gear than doing this type or mount/dismount?


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## Ian H (29 Nov 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> There must still be a large degree of lateral force going across the spokes as the bike is pushing the hubs out as well as down. Wheels work with the spokes in tension so they will withstand a considerable amount of sideways force.



No, the force is acting along the vertical axis of the rider and bike, otherwise you'd fall over.


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## snailracer (29 Nov 2010)

Smokin Joe said:


> There must still be a large degree of lateral force going across the spokes as the bike is pushing the hubs out as well as down. Wheels work with the spokes in tension so they will withstand a considerable amount of sideways force.


Actually, there is zero lateral force across the spokes because the vector sum of the vertical & horizontal forces acting at the rim passes directly through the centre of the hub.


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## Wheely Curious (2 Jan 2019)

snailracer said:


> Perhaps you should actually go to Sheldon's website and read it for yourself, rather than criticise him based on second-hand information. The late Sheldon Brown was a knowledgable bike mechanic and rider who freely offered advice to anyone who asked, and was great at explaining why rather than expecting people to take it on faith.
> 
> In America, Sheldon is a household name, though few have heard of him in the UK.
> 
> ...



Having mastered the "cowboy mount" around the age of six, I stumbled across this old thread while looking for mount advice that might be fresh and learned of Sheldon and this nomenclature. So it has a name - who knew? - and what did we do without the Internet and before Lycra?

OK, so I confess to some curmudgeonly eye-rolling. And I must grudgingly admit that yes, upon consideration, that the revered Sheldon, may he rest in peace, is probably correct. Indeed, the cavalier cowboy mount induces uniquely asymmetric forces in the wheels and frame of my mechanical pony. In my opinion.

With that stipulated, all I have to say is: whoopedy-doo. Or perhaps, yee-haw! In all my years and miles of riding, I think I developed a keen sense of what is mechanically stressful for a bicycle. If the beast is too delicate to bear this type of stress without anything more than negligible loss of alignment, than it is not roadworthy.

But then, these are the words of a plebe that has never worn Lycra, so discount appropriately.

And now I am ready to show my nephew how to mount his slightly large new bicycle. Hopefully, he will acquire certain agility that exceeds that necessary for simple straight and level riding, to store in reservoir of his autonomous nervous system for the sake of his safety.


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## Gravity Aided (2 Jan 2019)

I used to do it, but here we used to call it the "Prussian Dismount".


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## colly (2 Jan 2019)

Talking of dismounts. 20seconds in, what do you call that?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw


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## Dave 123 (2 Jan 2019)

colly said:


> Talking of dismounts. 20seconds in, what do you call that?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw




A leg over?


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## Rusty Nails (2 Jan 2019)

colly said:


> Talking of dismounts. 20seconds in, what do you call that?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw




A*se over head(set)


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## mjr (2 Jan 2019)

gbb said:


> Always used to, but for unknown reasons i just stopped doing it, can't even remember when now i think about it.
> Perhaps it's because i've had an irrational fear about the pedal snapping off and sending me flying...that does occur to me occasionally. Too much thinking...


My dad did snap a pedal that way, but it was before he'd swung the leg, so he just found himself stamping on the floor hard!

Personally, I scoot start: push the bike forwards, lift bum up onto saddle and put feet on the pedals and start pedalling before losing too much momentum. Very useful on bikes with backpedal brakes.


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## mikeymustard (7 Jan 2019)

"Cowboy mount" sounds like an expression from one of those- ahem - specialist websites! 
I've always called it a postie mount because they used to scoot their bikes down the pavement like this. I find it a very useful way of setting out, especially when you've got a big saddle bag fitted


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## andrew_s (8 Jan 2019)

colly said:


> Talking of dismounts. 20seconds in, what do you call that?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw



That's what's was referred to above as the cowboy dismount.
Swing the right leg over rear of bike so it's next to the left leg (before entering the shot), then just stand down with the right leg and start walking. If you bring the right leg forwards between left leg and bike before standing down, you can transition to a faster walk, or even run.

What is tricky is doing the right leg forwards cowboy dismount to a trot when using clipless pedals, and without unclipping beforehand. Any slight delay in the left foot coming free, and you trip over your right leg.

I don't mount cowboy style these days, but I used to when I rode fixed. 
Stationary, left pedal near top of stroke, then step up onto it, and swing the right leg over and sit down all before the left pedal reaches the bottom.


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## nickyboy (8 Jan 2019)

Used to do it all the time as a lad

But it feels like it may be a bit tricky clipped in. I think it's because, to make this as easy as possible, the left foot should be at something like 45 degrees on the pedal, then it shuffles into place when the right leg swings over

Gonna give it a go, clipped in, anyway


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## colly (9 Jan 2019)

nickyboy said:


> Used to do it all the time as a lad
> 
> But it feels like it may be a bit tricky clipped in. I think it's because, to make this as easy as possible, the left foot should be at something like 45 degrees on the pedal, then it shuffles into place when the right leg swings over
> 
> Gonna give it a go, clipped in, anyway


Great just make sure you get someone with a camera stood by.


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## T675Rich (9 Jan 2019)

I have never given how I get onto my bike much thought...as long as I don't end up a heap on the floor I am happy.


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## colly (9 Jan 2019)

I think this is the 'Cowboy in a hurry' dismount / mount.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqTDuGfqYCw


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## mjr (9 Jan 2019)

colly said:


> I think this is the 'Cowboy in a hurry' dismount / mount.
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqTDuGfqYCw



Looks more like a cyclocross flying mount, like Pidcock in the Tour Series. That one dismounted before getting in shot.


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## mjr (9 Jan 2019)

andrew_s said:


> That's what's was referred to above as the cowboy dismount.


I thought @colly was referring to the one swinging the leg over the bars. Based on how many times I've kicked the handlebars attempting it, I'd call that "risky"


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## Webby97 (11 Mar 2019)

Still use it to start & finish the ride, with clips. Seems more natural than straddling first then clipping in, plus it's nice to have some momentum whilst throwing the leg over


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## CXRAndy (12 Mar 2019)

Im a rodeo bareback cyclist. I push the bike in front, grab the saddle and launch myself over the back wheel landing perfectly on the saddle and pedals


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## jay clock (12 Mar 2019)

I hadn't realised the cowboy mount wasn't normal!


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## jay clock (12 Mar 2019)

Does the video show what the OP calls Cowboy Start? 
View: https://youtu.be/do6s2yLzus4?t=50
or have I misunderstood?


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## mjr (12 Mar 2019)

jay clock said:


> Does the video show what the OP calls Cowboy Start?


As his "swing and step" has the pedal at the bottom, so the only momentum is from pushing, I'd say no! It's somewhere between that and the one he calls "just jumping on" but the presenter is some sort of insulting freak, saying scoot-start is for beginners even though he himself often rides on the tops like a newbie.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Mar 2019)

colly said:


> Talking of dismounts. 20seconds in, what do you call that?
> 
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyz5d3entBw



Prussian dismount.


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## Gravity Aided (19 Mar 2019)

jay clock said:


> Does the video show what the OP calls Cowboy Start?
> View: https://youtu.be/do6s2yLzus4?t=50
> or have I misunderstood?



Nice Norfolk Southern Goods (freight) train at the start, rather old locomotives.


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