# Road "Pinch Points"



## gaijintendo (3 Jan 2019)

I have noticed there have been a large number of "pinch points" introduced across Glasgow and North Lanarkshire. Some are for bus stops, some pedestrian crossings, and some I'm not exactly sure why. All of them however are really detrimental to my safety; drivers generally proceed as normal, despite the narrowing.

Does anyone else recognise this trend. At least 6 appeared on my 10k commute last year... I don't fully understand why forcing traffic into a single lane makes sense, versus letting a crossing light stay on for seconds longer.

Even as a driver, having to wait behind a bus is surely more inconvenient than paying it and letting one merge back in. Some seem insane, occurring before filtered lights, preventing people selecting a lane.

Does anyone else feel this is a plague?


----------



## Markymark (3 Jan 2019)

I don't find them an issue. Take the lane and prevent any overtaking during the pinch. Move into position a few car lengths ahead of the pinch.


----------



## dave r (3 Jan 2019)

They're common round Coventry, just use primary riding through them.


----------



## dave r (3 Jan 2019)

Cross posted with Markymark


----------



## Drago (3 Jan 2019)

They removed them all in Milton Keynes because they turned a minor speeding traffic problem into an occasional dead driver problem.

Law abiding motorists see them and give way as required, but its not the law abiding motorists causing the problem. the speeders were encouraged to speed even more, a mad headlong rush to try and just nip through rather than pause for half a second to correctly give priority to the oncoming traffic flow, and this caused some quite spectacular head ons where previously there would have been no conflict.


----------



## gaijintendo (3 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> They removed them all in Milton Keynes because they turned a minor speeding traffic problem into an occasional dead driver problem.
> 
> Law abiding motorists see them and give way as required, but its not the law abiding motorists causing the problem. the speeders were encouraged to speed even more, a mad headlong rush to try and just nip through rather than pause for half a second to correctly give priority to the oncoming traffic flow, and this caused some quite spectacular head ons where previously there would have been no conflict.


I wonder if i haven't described it correctly, it isn't so much a chicane I'm seeing, but the parking "lane" being paved at a point, coming into the road. It happens both sides, and brings it in, so there is an increased chance of an accident - but most likely someone overtaking me vs a van.

Edit: wonder if this will work
[pre]
| : | : |
\ | /
| | |
/ | \
| : | : |
[/pre]

Edit: no


----------



## Threevok (3 Jan 2019)

We have some silly ones here - mostly to the approaches to roundabouts.

Despite me taking the space in plenty of time, there have been a few motorists that have had near misses, while overtaking me on the wrong side of the road as they approach the junction and not being able to get back in - in time.

One such cock-womble this very morning, in fact.


----------



## Markymark (3 Jan 2019)

Ah, you mean one lane for both directions. In theory there should be a sign saying who has priority. If you have priority you should be able to take the lane, but I agree, oncoming vehicles may not give a stuff and barge through.

Luckily I don;t have many of those on my commute. That's because London is awesome.


----------



## Threevok (3 Jan 2019)

Markymark said:


> Ah, you mean one lane for both directions. In theory there should be a sign saying who has priority. If you have priority you should be able to take the lane, but I agree, oncoming vehicles may not give a stuff and barge through.
> 
> Luckily I don;t have many of those on my commute. That's because London is awesome.



We have a few here (not on my usual commute though) but they have a lane for bicycles to bypass them. They have bollards to stop people parking on them too.


----------



## Threevok (3 Jan 2019)

Here's an example

http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.74...4!1sf9r3JbwHLHiIgIFPEVimrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Pat "5mph" (3 Jan 2019)

Being me a slow cyclist, pinch points give me the heeebie jeebies 
Taking primary only results in me getting beeped at, punishment passes, passes on the wring side of the road.
Most drivers, ime, will pass me anyway, I'm an ... obstacle that needs passed at all costs 
Imo, a wide road with a 30mph/20mph speed limit, with cameras, is much better.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Jan 2019)

The French put stuff that will scratch your pain work into their narrowing. So much better at getting motorists to slow down at these points.


----------



## Markymark (3 Jan 2019)

Just achieve a greater momentum than the oncoming car.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (3 Jan 2019)

Markymark said:


> Just achieve a greater momentum than the oncoming car.



2000mph


----------



## classic33 (3 Jan 2019)

One near me. The speed cushion was placed under one scheme. The pinch point under another. They knew there was something wrong, but couldn't work out what. The cycle lanes either side had the bollards nearer the kerbs when first placed, with two on each island.


----------



## Markymark (3 Jan 2019)

classic33 said:


> One near me. The speed cushion was placed under one scheme. The pinch point under another. They knew there was something wrong, but couldn't work out what. The cycle lanes either side had the bollards nearer the kerbs when first placed, with two on each island.
> View attachment 445450


Perfect. Either use the cycle lane or use the speed-bump ramp to jump the oncoming car.


----------



## Milkfloat (3 Jan 2019)

Threevok said:


> We have a few here (not on my usual commute though) but they have a lane for bicycles to bypass them. They have bollards to stop people parking on them too.



You would need to be pretty accurate to bypass your example


----------



## classic33 (3 Jan 2019)

Threevok said:


> We have a few here (not on my usual commute though) but they have a lane for bicycles to bypass them. They have bollards to stop people parking on them too.


There used to be two bollards on each island, but they were taken out by car drivers.


----------



## Markymark (3 Jan 2019)

Threevok said:


> Here's an example
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.74...4!1sf9r3JbwHLHiIgIFPEVimrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Typical poster form Wales, can't help but post a Google Streetview with a couple of naked hotties lying in the grass next to the road.


----------



## gaijintendo (3 Jan 2019)

These examples are making me feel blessed for the minimally awful design choice locally. They don't click traffic like a chicane/traffic calming measure, just every inch short of the two lanes... squeezing everything together...


----------



## guitarpete247 (3 Jan 2019)

I know someone who suggested that cyclists should be using that narrow gap, twixt kerb and island, (2" gap). Till I pointed out it was just for rain drainage.


----------



## Drago (3 Jan 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> You would need to be pretty accurate to bypass your example
> 
> View attachment 445451



Blind summit.
Blind left hand curve.
Road junction.

All that clutter and hazard and they put yet another hazard there? I'll have what some of their highways engineers are sniffing please.


----------



## Leaway2 (3 Jan 2019)

Posted before in another thread. From my commute.


----------



## Threevok (3 Jan 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> You would need to be pretty accurate to bypass your example
> 
> View attachment 445451



Yeah, sorry about that. Here's an example with the cycle lane, not too far from there actually

http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.75...4!1s6E6wl2rsTuLAJTXpUpwmlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Threevok (3 Jan 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> You would need to be pretty accurate to bypass your example
> 
> View attachment 445451



Incidentally, fans of the BBC Wales comedy series "High Hopes" should recognise this road from the opening credits


----------



## mjr (3 Jan 2019)

Threevok said:


> Yeah, sorry about that. Here's an example with the cycle lane, not too far from there actually


Oh I just love such inconsistency so I either have to wait until I can see whether the gutter is intended to be a cycle lane... or more likely, just take primary through the carriageway lane and fark the motorists.

I thought the OP was describing shoot like this one in Cambridge except that the OP's does it from both sides instead of only the left. Cambridge Cycling Campaign have been complaining about the pictured one since at least 1996 https://www.camcycle.org.uk/campaigning/papers/buildouts.html - it's disappointing if some backwards local governments are still building more of them.





It's a motoring supremacist design intended to reduce the amount of time that motorists have to wait for people on the crossing, at the expense of some safety for anyone using the left lane (not many in Cambridge because parked cars usually fill it until the crossing zigzags) and pedestrians waiting to cross who are now stood waiting out in traffic.


----------



## Jenkins (3 Jan 2019)

mjr said:


> Oh I just love such inconsistency so I either have to wait until I can see whether the gutter is intended to be a cycle lane... or more likely, just take primary through the carriageway lane and fark the motorists.
> 
> I thought the OP was describing shoot like this one in Cambridge except that the OP's does it from both sides instead of only the left. Cambridge Cycling Campaign have been complaining about the pictured one since at least 1996 https://www.camcycle.org.uk/campaigning/papers/buildouts.html - it's disappointing if some backwards local governments are still building more of them.
> View attachment 445461
> ...


That's a more extreme version of one I have on the way to work at a pedestrian crossing https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.9...4!1sWA0xPc17zHoZLROylhjdmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
However, when it was first built, the bollard was a plain (non-reflective) one, the kerb was much taller AND was at 90° to the pavement with no warning that it was there!


----------



## Drago (3 Jan 2019)

Threevok said:


> Yeah, sorry about that. Here's an example with the cycle lane, not too far from there actually
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.75...4!1s6E6wl2rsTuLAJTXpUpwmlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> ...


----------



## vickster (4 Jan 2019)

Leaway2 said:


> Posted before in another thread. From my commute.
> View attachment 445456


That's pretty standard around here


----------



## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

vickster said:


> That's pretty standard around here


Have you tried reporting them to local parking enforcement (usually council, sometimes police)? It looks like easy money for them.


----------



## Threevok (4 Jan 2019)

Drago said:


> I love the old boy sat in his chair, just waiting for the days head on carnage to begin.



Due to budget cuts, that's the new Gwent Police speed camera - Dai the Grass


----------



## vickster (4 Jan 2019)

mjr said:


> Have you tried reporting them to local parking enforcement (usually council, sometimes police)? It looks like easy money for them.


Generally not on the pavements unfortunately , just blocking the cycle lanes which presumably isn’t prohibited if there are no lines


----------



## classic33 (4 Jan 2019)

vickster said:


> Generally not on the pavements unfortunately , just blocking the cycle lanes which presumably isn’t prohibited if there are no lines


Should still be covered by the council though, civil as opposed to motoring offence.


----------



## snorri (4 Jan 2019)

See 'Cycling by Design', you might get some guidance before discussing with the authorities, but be warned you will be told that CbD is merely a recommendation and not mandatory. 

https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/14173/cycling_by_design_2010__rev_1__june_2011_.pdf

Section 4 Traffic and Speed. Page 37 Para 4.3 states 
Cycle Bypasses
A cycle bypass should be a primary consideration where carriageway narrowing is introduced.


----------



## mjr (4 Jan 2019)

vickster said:


> Generally not on the pavements unfortunately , just blocking the cycle lanes which presumably isn’t prohibited if there are no lines


Solid white line is sufficient to prohibit parking cars as I understand it. Only dashed line lanes need additional double yellows. https://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/node/283


----------

