# Thinking about going horizontal...



## GrasB (7 May 2011)

Due to a medical problem I'm thinking about dipping my toe in the recumbent water, however I have a little problem: where to start? There are high racers, low racers, long wheelbase, short wheelbase... so from a completely clean sheet with no experience of recumbents how do you work out what to look at?


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## arallsopp (7 May 2011)

Best bet is to try a few. you are near Cambridge, right? Kevin at DTek is near Ely.


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## byegad (7 May 2011)

Try, try, try! If you can't try be prepared to go for a second hand ride that will resell for close to that you pay for it.


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## 3tyretrackterry (7 May 2011)

the medical problem may dictate your choice to a degree ie balance issue would push you towards a trike a back issue may dictate whether you have a more upright seat etc etc you need to try and be prepared to do some research


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## sunnyjim (7 May 2011)

I wouldn't dismiss trikes as something only for those with balance problems or some sort of second class bike - they have some advantages. you'll probably end up with more than one recumbent anyway, so at least one of them should be a trike.


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## arallsopp (8 May 2011)

OK am back. Sorry, prior post was made whilst at the theatre (pre performance, of course).

Right. There are a few things that'll help you get started on the recumbent road.

First (assuming its not heresy to mention it) is to throw your net far and wide when it comes to forums. Here, yacf, bentrideronline are all good resources. The more you read, the more you'll pick things up.

Next is to come to terms with some of the words you'll hear to describe bent specific things. This will make it easier to communicate your needs as well as generally identify what people are on about 

OSS (over seat steering, aka Above Seat Steering)
- With hands close to your chest, often called "Hamster" or "Mantis" - twitchy but precise
- With arms outstretched, often called "Superman" - relaxed, but can be tiring.
USS (being the under seat equivalent - very relaxed, but with limited turning circle)
- Being direct or indirect, based upon whether there's a single pivot or a linkage bar to allow steering.
LWB (long wheel base - front wheel in front of the pedals - very stable. fast with a fairing. not very agile)
SWB (short wheel base - front wheel behind the pedals - very agile)
CLWB (compact long wheel base - front wheel in the vicinity of the pedals - reasonably agile, reasonably stable, resonably aero)
Tadpole (trike which is wide at the front and narrow at the back)
Delta (trike with two wheels at the back and one at the front)
Knowing the manufacturers will help a little. Challenge, Catrike, ICE, HPVelotechnik, Bacchetta, Hase, Raptobike. Most of their sites are pretty good.

Next up: Find a good shop. One who can help you elucidate what you want from the 'bent, the money you're prepared to put down, the state of the engine, and the sheer practicalities of ownership. Kevin at DTek is local and comes with a very good reputation.

Then get out there and try some. Cadge other riders for their opinions, read up on ride reports, immerse yourself in it and it soon starts to make sense.

In Europe / UK, the 'bents I run across most often are OSS lowracers and USS SWB tourers. The American's bias towards LWBs and 'crankforward' designs. High racers and trikes are still fairly unusual over here, but gaining popularity on both sides of the Atlantic. 

I find direct USS (as per my Streetmachine) and indirect USS (Furai) totally intuitive on a two wheeler, but have never got on with OSS in any form. Plenty I know have the opposite. You may get on with both, or neither. Unfortunately there's no substitution for getting on one and finding out. 

Find somewhere that has a reasonable range of solutions on hand, and be prepared to spend a few hours trying out different ideas. Balance improves after the first few tries, and a week later its almost perfect. 'Bent legs take a little longer and I got mine after about 1000 miles. Desire to N+1 your bent comes after a year. 

Andy.


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## 3tyretrackterry (8 May 2011)

i apologise if i was erring towards trikes being for balance issues and certainly wasnt trying to inferr they are 2nd class bikes. i ride a trike and a df and i have no problems with balance at all my main point was that all the information needs to be available for a decision to be made


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## markg0vbr (8 May 2011)

once on the dark side, you will find just like df bikes you have tourer, hybrid and all out speed bikes. remember you will need six months of regular riding bent to get your legs conditioned, so you must give your self time.
as for any one with medical problems, though i don't like to mention it, i have been riding with a broken hip full of metal bolts for the last three months, i started riding three weeks after my operation, tigerbiten rides with one arm, and i know people how use electric assist, because of having a stroke.


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## palinurus (8 May 2011)

Go try some out. I never did get a recumbent but I was glad of the experience of trying a few (and I did end up buying a Brompton and an Airnimal from the shop that ran the try out session I went to)


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## GrasB (8 May 2011)

Thanks for the input. 

3tyretrackterry, my medical problem is RSI mixed in with Carpal tunnel problems, it's been caused by continually using other peoples badly setup (for me) workstations (good thing is occupational health has banned me from doing any work at other peoples workstation… no nursing PCs through unix updates ). The move to recumbents is to remove the need for my arms to support any weight & still be able to ride in a performance orientated manner.

markg0vbr, 6 months riding to acclimatise? That seems a little extreme for my miles, about 900 miles/month.


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## byegad (8 May 2011)

There are different muscles involved in recumbent riding, you may well find 6 months is about right. The muscles that are used in common will be far stronger than the new muscle groups you'll need to train.

Take heart. My speed on 3 recumbent wheels is no slower now, 6 years after my 1st 'bent and 4 years after ditching 2 wheels, and DFs, for good, is as fast as my DF only days.


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## 3tyretrackterry (8 May 2011)

I apologise for being trike orientated as that is what i know about ok makes sense you can get arm rests for trikes either homemade or factory built there are also horizontal handlebars for trikes though vertical is more usual. indiret steering is i think more forgiving and may cause less strain on your wrists speed is probably best achieved by going low and possibly with larger rear wheel and you can race recumbents if that is your thing through the BHPC


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## xpc316e (8 May 2011)

I have osteoarthritis in both shoulders and can support very little weight through my arms. I initially bought a LWB USS 'bent and found it very comfortable indeed. The riding position with the arms dangling at one's side was superb for me, but I sold it because the minimum balance speed on hills was too high for me and I found that it lacked manoeuvrability for town use. I then bought a tadpole trike, and that is also comfy for my upper limb issues, although not quite as relaxing as the two-wheeler I had.

I'd recommend the second-hand purchase route - I even made a profit on the two-wheeler after 2 years of use. I didn't try any 'bents before I leapt in with a purchase, but I spent plenty of time researching various options. Most 'bent riders are more than happy to evangelise, so do continue to pick their brains. Indeed, you are near to me and if you'd like to try out my trike, just PM me.


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## markg0vbr (8 May 2011)

i use two mountain bike bar stubs fitted just under the handle bars and covered in foam as wrist rests they make the trike even more relaxed.
also do not expect to be turning those big gears straight away, spin spin spin and relax


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## byegad (8 May 2011)

On my QNT I use a bar end mounted below the left hand grip and the mirror support, similarly mounted on the right. 

On my Kettwiesel I rest mu forearms on the rear mudguards and use the fingertips of one hand to steer the trike. 

As an arthritis sufferer I need to have minimal work for my hands to do when riding. Both systems work well for me.


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## tongskie01 (8 May 2011)

i got raptobike lowracer from bikefix and second hand kmx trike road set up.both comfortable to the wrist. if you want to be faster, go for lowracers.


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## ufkacbln (8 May 2011)

On both my Street Machine and Catrike I use Mirrycle mirrors.

I simply hook my thumb over the mirror and rest my hands that way


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## tongskie01 (8 May 2011)

Cunobelin said:


> On both my Street Machine and Catrike I use Mirrycle mirrors.
> 
> I simply hook my thumb over the mirror and rest my hands that way



i use one hand when i get tired.


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## arallsopp (8 May 2011)

I was thinking about this thread whilst out on the SMGTe today. It occurs to me that after the initial "deathgrip" stance of the noob wears off, there is almost no strain at all on the wrist. But in the first few weeks, the tendency to find oneself off balance could put quite a load on unexpected places. Its all plain sailing after a while, but I definitely pulled stomach muscles (for example) whilst getting the hang of the bike.


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## tongskie01 (9 May 2011)

arallsopp said:


> I was thinking about this thread whilst out on the SMGTe today. It occurs to me that after the initial "deathgrip" stance of the noob wears off, there is almost no strain at all on the wrist. But in the first few weeks, the tendency to find oneself off balance could put quite a load on unexpected places. Its all plain sailing after a while, but I definitely pulled stomach muscles (for example) whilst getting the hang of the bike.



me too. the bodys response is to tense up a bit when still learning which doesn't really help. but still depends upon individual. some learn a lot quicker than others.


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## BenM (10 May 2011)

I can confirm that the death grip goes after a while  - on the trial day I had riding at ForestRow (Ely is a little far for me) I had to keep muttering "relax" to myself... these days I am seeing if the Orca can be ridden no handed - I have seen pics of people doing it but I think they were rolling rather than pedalling.

B.


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## Fiona N (18 May 2011)

arallsopp said:


> .... but I definitely pulled stomach muscles (for example) whilst getting the hang of the bike....



Ha yes - the idea that riding a trike requires no core stability is blown out of the water the first fast, curvy descent you do. Then the requirement to move your body weight to keep the inside wheel down means that you're constantly curling your torso up and left / right. I ended up with sore abs after my first Alpine descent (approx 3 weeks after getting the Windcheetah) 

The estimate of 6 months to adjust is very much mileage dependent (IMHO). I rode my Windcheetah 90 miles from AVD to home when I collected it, which resulted in hip flexors being replaced by large rusty nuts and bolts (metaphorically speaking ) and then left for a tour to the south of France taking in a traverse of the Alsace, Jura, Swiss Alps and Ligurian Alps  after which my muscles were very well adjusted. Sadly there was a period of about 10 days in the middle when every day was a blur of pain from my quads and hip flexors. So you can choose to do it slow or you can choose to do it quick but it usually takes > 1000 km.


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## GrasB (2 Jul 2011)

Well after a little incident with the bordman I finally got around to doing something about this & picked up a Bacchetta Giro ATT 26 today. I rode it home 61 miles at an average of 20.16mph into a slight headwind !... & according to the guy at the shop with some adaption I should get faster 

The down side is I can barely walk my gluteus hurt so bad.


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## coffeejo (2 Jul 2011)

GrasB said:


> The down side is I can barely walk my gluteus hurt so bad.



What a poetic way of putting it


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## byegad (2 Jul 2011)

Recumbut, as the Left Ponders call it, is cured with a more reclined seat or more padding on the seat, not in your shorts. 

I second the estimate of 1000km, certainly a minimum of 500 miles and more likely closer to 1000 miles seems to be the point where you stop thinking about riding the bike and just ride naturally without odd muscles complaining. (Or worrying about stopping and starting!) You'll get faster after that too, but very much dependent on your style of riding/training.


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## GrasB (3 Jul 2011)

byegad, I'm not convinced it's that. As while riding I was fine, it was only after I'd properly cooled down & started doing other things that stiffness developed which it slowly turned into pain. It feels much more like over training of the muscles.


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## byegad (3 Jul 2011)

OK. Recumbut usually starts while you're still on the bike and doesn't go away too quickly!

I had the seat on my AZUB-4 too upright as I adapted to laid back cycling. After 100 miles I reclined it and the pain disappeared. After 500 miles I reclined it some more and truly relaxed.


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## Riding in Circles (3 Jul 2011)

Never heard a trike rider complain of it so I suspect it is the bum muscles (there I said bum!), working too hard to keep balance until the body learns to engage the back and shoulder muscles too.


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## markg0vbr (3 Jul 2011)

i started out quite upright on the att then reclined is a bit at a time, if you lower it two far you can loose a bit of speed on the hills.
the att is fantastic climber as well, with the 26" front wheel it is very forgiving steering, i did a lot of very tight figure eights in a car park after only a couple of weeks riding, i could ride up to junctions at less than walking speed and just unclip as i came to a stop. 
with a rack on the back and under the seat it makes a good tour bike, some of the Americans put springs in the rear seat supports but with the euromesh seat and foam pad i find it very comfortable with out.i had my trike for two years before i get the att and found i could feel slightly different muscles come in to play.


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