# My first confrontation and why it will be my last.



## Andrew_Culture (3 Nov 2012)

I just popped out to the co-op to fetch some milk (hardly a commute I'll admit). I left my road and joined the main(ish) road which is a downhill number (Belstead Road if you're local) and sat in primary by the middle line and immediately indicated to turn right as I only join this road for a brief time. It's worth noting that the right turn is on a sharp left bend in the road.

I was aware of a revving engine behind me, and soon enough discovered that it belonged to a blue Ford Galaxy and said vehicle accelerated and overtook me, leaving very little room before shooting down the side street I was about to take.

Needless to say it put the shoots right up me. Within a few hundred years the traffic naturally stopped and I found myself next to the car. The three young girls in the back were pointing at me and trying to get the attention of the driver. The driver stared straight forward and started sounding his horn and the stopped traffic.

The driver wound down his window, and much against my better judgement I said 'cor, what have I ever done to you?

Him - I did nothing wrong, you pulled out and I thought you were going straight on so I passed you.

Me - I was indicating

Him - I did nothing wrong

Me - okay, we'll put it down to a misunderstanding 

Him - There will be a farking misunderstanding if I get out of this car

At which point I turned my bike and headed the opposite way, this was not a situation that was going to end well if I stayed where I was.

So now I have a pounding headache from the adrenaline and mr daffodil is now doubt now even more wound up and in control of two tonnes of death. I doubt the children in the back enjoyed the exchange much either.

Just. Not. Worth. It.

I wish I hadn't been too shaken to forget to make a not of his registration number though


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## classic33 (3 Nov 2012)

Chances are you'll see it again. Make a note to stay clear of it or watch for erratic driving.


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## 400bhp (3 Nov 2012)

Some people are just weird.

3 kids in the car FFS.

Is it any wonder people's behaviour changes negatively wen they get behind the wheel-it's clearly instilled from a young age.


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## Andy_R (3 Nov 2012)

Simples....mobile out, 999, "I have just been threatened with violence by driver of vehicle reg......"
It is an assault and is reportable on 999 not 101 (excerpt from 101 website:"_You should continue to call 999 when it is an emergency, such as when a crime is in progress, someone suspected of a crime is nearby, when there is danger to life or when violence is being used or threatened. To contact the police for any other reason, call 101_.")
Even if nothing comes of it straight away, it can still be used for intelligence purposes.


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## GrumpyGregry (3 Nov 2012)

Don't roll alongside a lousy driver. A lot of the numpties will see it as escalation and it puts you in a vulnerable position. Just sit behind 'em staring into the rear view or door mirror. They'll 'blink' first. No, don't do that either.

Just don't bother discussing remonstrating debating or correcting drivers. You'd get a more positive response if you critiqued their performance in the sack. Just report them.


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## Drago (3 Nov 2012)

"Your face will have a 5 knuckle understanding if you step out of that car Sonny", but then I doubt he'd have had the stones to say it to me anyway.

The trick is to smile and whisper it under your breath, so any witnesses say "I don't know what was wrong with the driver, but that nice cyclist seemed a polite chap"


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## helston90 (3 Nov 2012)

to pick up and emphasis Andy_r's point the aspect of the driver still being nearby is relevant, if the police intercept him on his door step still driving the car it eliminates the 'not been anywhere mate let alone seen a bike' argument.
Try not to let it get to you and definitely the right thing to ride off and leave him stew!


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Don't roll alongside a lousy driver. A lot of the numpties will see it as escalation and it puts you in a vulnerable position. Just sit behind 'em staring into the rear view or door mirror. They'll 'blink' first. No, don't do that either.
> 
> Just don't bother discussing remonstrating debating or correcting drivers. You'd get a more positive response if you critiqued their performance in the sack. Just report them.



You back up the reason I never usually say anything at all. There are idiots in the world and I didn't enjoy this dip into their world.

I'm usually very calm in dangerous situations (I used to support violent people!) but this just caught me out.


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## Drago (3 Nov 2012)

Yeah, I talk a good confrontation but really i try to avoid it. Don't speak unless spoken to is a pretty good rule for the road.


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## Matthew_T (3 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> Some people are just weird.
> 
> 3 kids in the car FFS.
> 
> Is it any wonder people's behaviour changes negatively wen they get behind the wheel-it's clearly instilled from a young age.


Well that didnt stop the driver in this video having a go at me:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHIjwxnQFU&feature=g-upl


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## addictfreak (3 Nov 2012)

I never worry about the mouth pieces who say ' if I get out of this car' they have no intention of getting out. All wind and p*ss!
The ones to watch are those who quietly get out, they are the ones with intent.


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## Dan_h (3 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Don't roll alongside a lousy driver. A lot of the numpties will see it as escalation and it puts you in a vulnerable position. Just sit behind 'em staring into the rear view or door mirror. They'll 'blink' first. No, don't do that either.
> 
> Just don't bother discussing remonstrating debating or correcting drivers. You'd get a more positive response if you critiqued their performance in the sack. Just report them.


 
Unless you are proper hard, in which case remonstrate all you like and if they do come and have a go you have nothing to worry about!

Unfortunately I am not that hard...


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## Peteaud (3 Nov 2012)

GregCollins said:


> Don't roll alongside a lousy driver. A lot of the numpties will see it as escalation and it puts you in a vulnerable position. Just sit behind 'em staring into the rear view or door mirror. They'll 'blink' first. No, don't do that either.
> 
> Just don't bother discussing remonstrating debating or correcting drivers. You'd get a more positive response if you critiqued their performance in the sack. Just report them.


 
I can look after myself but its really not worth the hassle of it all so the above advice is what i do.


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## helston90 (3 Nov 2012)

I think there's many things in life to get in fights over- I'm just not sure something like this is one of them. 
Besides if you win it'd be classed as you starting it, if you lose you then have to explain to your friends/ family how you were in a fight to start with!


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## JoeyB (3 Nov 2012)

You did better than I would. Although kids being present is definitely a game changer. It's not fair on them to see Daddy get his ass whipped.


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## Herbie (3 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I just popped out to the co-op to fetch some milk (hardly a commute I'll admit). I left my road and joined the main(ish) road which is a downhill number (Belstead Road if you're local) and sat in primary by the middle line and immediately indicated to turn right as I only join this road for a brief time. It's worth noting that the right turn is on a sharp left bend in the road.
> 
> I was aware of a revving engine behind me, and soon enough discovered that it belonged to a blue Ford Galaxy and said vehicle accelerated and overtook me, leaving very little room before shooting down the side street I was about to take.
> 
> ...


 
You did the right thing


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## Cyclist33 (3 Nov 2012)

Saying that, I got cut up by some black-Lycra clad git on a carbon orbea today on a turning that sounds very similar. He undertook me as I'd paused to let cars have their right of way. I didn't know he was coming so could easily have ploughed into him. I chased him for about half a mile, hammering my hardtail with all my might at 18-19 mph. I would've got up level with him so I could tell him what a d*ckwad he was, but he jumped the red light, and I didn't, and that was that.

Bloody idiot.


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## Moodyman (3 Nov 2012)

No matter how hard you are, you only have fists whilst they a 2 tonne cage. If they decide to use it against you, you'll come off worse.

Drivers hate anyone having a go at their driving. Just rejoice in the freedom and joy that two wheels brings you and feel sorry for them in their metal boxes.


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## Peteaud (3 Nov 2012)

Moodyman said:


> . Just rejoice in the freedom and joy that two wheels brings you and feel sorry for them in their metal boxes.


 
Like that


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## deptfordmarmoset (3 Nov 2012)

Sympathy to you, Andrew. That anger that lingers afterwards is a mess of what ifs and if onlys. (Ha, I knew the red worm would come out for ''onlys'')


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## Peter Armstrong (3 Nov 2012)

the moment he said "There will be a f***ing misunderstanding if I get out of this car" i think i would have seen the red mist.


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## Andrew_Culture (3 Nov 2012)

deptfordmarmoset said:


> Sympathy to you, Andrew. That anger that lingers afterwards is a mess of what ifs and if onlys. (Ha, I knew the red worm would come out for ''onlys'')



I'm more saddened than angry! I will wake up tomorrow no longer troubled


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## HLaB (3 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I'm more saddened than angry! I will wake up tomorrow no longer troubled


And the driver will wake up still a miserable git


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## SportMonkey (4 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I just popped out to the co-op to fetch some milk (hardly a commute I'll admit). I left my road and joined the main(ish) road which is a downhill number (Belstead Road if you're local) and sat in primary by the middle line and immediately indicated to turn right as I only join this road for a brief time. It's worth noting that the right turn is on a sharp left bend in the road.
> 
> I was aware of a revving engine behind me, and soon enough discovered that it belonged to a blue Ford Galaxy and said vehicle accelerated and overtook me, leaving very little room before shooting down the side street I was about to take.
> 
> ...


 
You're a better man than me, I'd have argued with him, and asked him what he thought would happen if he got out of the car.

Too many peanuts in this world wasting our oxygens, well done for being the bigger man.


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## bicyclos (4 Nov 2012)

Driving a motor vehicle puts stress on people especially when they are held up and their momentum is altered. It is hard to shout and ball at another motorist but a cyclist?.......easy target. I have learnt to shout expletives in my head but smile and say nothing and pass them as if they dont exist. 1-0 to you he lost.


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## tony cardall (4 Nov 2012)

i had 3 guys pull up along side me then hoot their horn and give 2 fingered jesters whilst veering towards me on the road before driving off.I caught up with them at the next juction then as i rode past i raised my right foot and kicked off the mirror.I then stopped and got off my bike but not a peep from them as they drove passed.


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## campbellab (4 Nov 2012)

tony cardall said:


> i had 3 guys pull up along side me then hoot their horn and give 2 fingered jesters whilst veering towards me on the road before driving off.I caught up with them at the next juction then as i rode past i raised my right foot and kicked off the mirror.I then stopped and got off my bike but not a peep from them as they drove passed.


 
I'm not sure I'm a confident enough rider to attempt that maneuvre!


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## tony cardall (4 Nov 2012)

campbellab said:


> I'm not sure I'm a confident enough rider to attempt that maneuvre!


 i don't normally react to idiots behind the wheel but they went out their way to p*ss me off ,needless to say i'm glad it never came to blows.


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## Maz (4 Nov 2012)




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## Hip Priest (4 Nov 2012)

You did the right thing Andrew.

I can't imagine ever looking back and thinking 'I'm really glad I got into that fight'.


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## deptfordmarmoset (4 Nov 2012)

Hip Priest said:


> You did the right thing Andrew.
> 
> I can't imagine ever looking back and thinking 'I'm really glad I got into that fight'.


I agree, but it's hard to know how to deal with the anger. A woman left hooked me and drove off on a fast roundabout on the South Circular earlier this week. When I caught up with her at the red light she was rushing towards 20 metres down the road, I had to scream ''just get the F out off here!'' because otherwise I'd have physically assaulted her. I'm a terrible fighter but I still have a temper and show it even to bigger, fitter testoteranuses. What to do with the anger? Sadness comes afterwards when the anger no longer has an immediate target.


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## Nearly there (4 Nov 2012)

Until faced with this kind of situation its hard to say how we would confront a dwa (d*ck with attitude)but well done andrew you did what came naturally to you sleep on it tomorrows another day.


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## Raging Squirrel (4 Nov 2012)

I think as soon as he said that I'd have jumped off the bike and strangled him with his own seatbelt


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## BentMikey (4 Nov 2012)

This is one situation where a very visible camera often helps defuse and prevent such a confrontation. Not always, mind. The camera helps me keep quieter than I otherwise might too.

It sucks Andrew, poor you.


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## Andrew_Culture (4 Nov 2012)

Hip Priest said:


> You did the right thing Andrew.
> 
> I can't imagine ever looking back and thinking 'I'm really glad I got into that fight'.



Bang. On. As I believe the phrase is.


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## Drago (5 Nov 2012)

And how does a driver propose to exit the car without the cyclist crushing his chins as he kicks the door shut on them? Some of these chumps on vehicles have no idea if the tactical disadvantage they're at if they intend fisticuffs.


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2012)

Big disadvantages cyclists have are the bike (well, if you want to keep it in one piece rather than use it as a weapon) and the shoes.


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## Drago (5 Nov 2012)

Ah miladdo, as part of the training i give i teach my students to use the bike as a defensive device and weapon.

I've had some good feedback over the years, including a PCSO who was attacked and managed to break the guys leg with the bike. 

There are also several decent groundpin techniques you can use with the bike. If you have the knowledge being on a bike gives you positional and tactical advantage.

And remember to unclip your lid before entering combat.


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2012)

My CAAD9 aint being used as a weapon


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## jonny jeez (5 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Just. Not. Worth. It.
> 
> I wish I hadn't been too shaken to forget to make a not of his registration number though


 

So, why will it be your last?


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## JoeyB (5 Nov 2012)

I'm guessing he won't engage in any verbal next time...


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## ManiaMuse (5 Nov 2012)

Best thing to do in that situation is pull directly in front of him, don't look at him at all, and scratch your arse.


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## Andrew_P (5 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> Big disadvantages cyclists have are the bike (well, if you want to keep it in one piece rather than use it as a weapon) and the shoes.


 Oh I don't know I have often thought that the cleat could be a bit of an advantge and getting in to fisty cuffs the helmet would be more use than it was originally designed for..

On a serious note I was about to make a new thread but this one is too similar, these events have suddenly become the norm for me, really strange every one has been because I dared to shout out Oi as they pull out from the right or close pass, without a doubt the oi has stopped their progress of hitting me, each one has got along side me a started hurling abuse, one took it further and starterd braking in front of me (doing 20mph plus) I then was stupid enough (or angry enough) to get up along side him in a slower moving traffic, he was backing down saying he had seen me, I asked him how would I have known that, and why he went on to behave like a total **** afterwards he didn't have an answer and wound his window up.

The thing is in the heat of moment and the burst of fear and adrenalin I cannot help myself, some not all feel like a genuine attempt on my life has been made, it is not only that it is the complete lack of any purpose to their actions at the very most they are going to gain or lose 10-15 seconds, so they verbally attack someone who has done nothing other than take up a bit of road space and shouted a clear oi, it this that get me so indignant and sometimes quite rude.. 

I think everyone should spend a an hour on bike in traffic as part of their driving test..


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## fossyant (5 Nov 2012)

Road cleats - forget it. Like standing on ice !


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## fossyant (5 Nov 2012)

LOCO, I know where you are coming from, even just an 'Oi' can cause a reaction - that's the same shout I use. Complaining about someone's driving is somehow a serious personal insult.

Not worth it - I end up in a foul mood. Let it go !


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## Rob3rt (5 Nov 2012)

You did well Andrew!


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## Davidsw8 (5 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I just popped out to the co-op to fetch some milk (hardly a commute I'll admit). I left my road and joined the main(ish) road which is a downhill number (Belstead Road if you're local) and sat in primary by the middle line and immediately indicated to turn right as I only join this road for a brief time. It's worth noting that the right turn is on a sharp left bend in the road.
> 
> I was aware of a revving engine behind me, and soon enough discovered that it belonged to a blue Ford Galaxy and said vehicle accelerated and overtook me, leaving very little room before shooting down the side street I was about to take.
> 
> ...


 

You were really very polite and I think you totally did the right thing.

I hate this kind of thing too and always feel awful afterwards. I find it SO difficult to not at least mutter something though and people even get massively wound up with a simple look and slight shake of the head. People will never take kindly to being criticised for the driving, there is no good way of doing it.

He clearly knew he was in the wrong but was unable to admit it for whatever reason.

There really does need to be zero tolerance when it comes to bad driving/cycling etc. This isn't the first time this guy has been an idiot and it definitely won't be the last, I just hope no one gets hurt because of him.


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

Davidsw8 said:


> You were really very polite and I think you totally did the right thing.
> 
> I hate this kind of thing too and always feel awful afterwards. I find it SO difficult to not at least mutter something though and people even get massively wound up with a simple look and slight shake of the head. People will never take kindly to being criticised for the driving, there is no good way of doing it.
> 
> ...


 
Indeed, my parting shot was going to be to say 'please don't kill anyone' but I thought better of it.


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

jonny jeez said:


> So, why will it be your last?


 
Because next time I will keep my trap shut and make a metal note of the licence plate. Unless I end up getting run over at low speed like a clip that popped up on here once, in which case I might make more of a fuss.


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## jonny jeez (5 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Because next time I will keep my trap shut and make a metal note of the licence plate. Unless I end up getting run over at low speed like a clip that popped up on here once, in which case I might make more of a fuss.


I think that's a good way to go in the future. Sometimes I imagine all these "drivers" are sent to test us, or perhaps allow us to practice our patience.


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## jonny jeez (5 Nov 2012)

JoeyB said:


> I'm guessing he won't engage in any verbal next time...


Sure, but I was keen to know why?


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

jonny jeez said:


> Sure, but I was keen to know why?


 
Because I only get one night a week that I can sit up late chatting and wooing my wonderful wife, and because I opened my gob I wasted that evening by having a headache.


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## Maz (5 Nov 2012)

Reading through some of the replies on how you would exact your retaliation has given me a good laugh. Thank you. 
In reality, if anything, maybe a roll-eyes and a quiet 'tut' would be closer to the truth.


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## jonny jeez (5 Nov 2012)

Andrew_Culture said:


> Because I only get one night a week that I can sit up late chatting and wooing my wonderful wife, and because I opened my gob I wasted that evening by having a headache.


Apologies Andrew I was answering Joey, you've more than adequately answered. I asked as your thread ("_and why It'll be my last"_) title suggested that you'd either got a good thumping or that something else nasty had occurred.

Glad neither was the case.


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

jonny jeez said:


> Apologies Andrew I was answering Joey, you've more than adequately answered. I asked as your thread ("_and why It'll be my last"_) title suggested that you'd either got a good thumping or that something else nasty had occurred.
> 
> Glad neither was the case.


 
Oh right! No problem, I've had a few thumpings in my life but general try to avoid them! The last time I got a hearty few to the chops they were delivered by a bouncer who was running security at an event I was putting on, I was trying to stop him strangling one of my punters (seriously!) and he objected with his meaty fists. Worst of all I then had to pay him before him and his fellow apes would leave. Got the farkers banned from council premises for that little number. Passive Aggressive? Moi? Nah, just dislike being decked by people I employ to try and prevent general crowd muftyness


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## Miquel In De Rain (5 Nov 2012)

I would probably have given the nescafe wave and if things got dicey would have found an escape route a car couldn't use.I also can't keep my trap shut sometimes.


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

Miquel In De Rain said:


> I would probably have given the nescafe wave and if things got dicey would have found an escape route a car couldn't use.I also can't keep my trap shut sometimes.


 
I did nip up some steps, on my single speed...


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## womblechops (5 Nov 2012)

It's always hard work having to bend down to talk through a window - especially if you're on the passenger side. It's just not a particularly Oscar Wildesque way of conducting an argument, hunched over and waving arms whilst trying to hold a bike up in the middle of traffic (which is usually just moving off from lights).

Much better to open the car doors - _all of them_ and just ride off!
(NB: don't do this if the car has passengers in it as you will get flattened)


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2012)

womblechops said:


> Much better to open the car doors - _all of them_ and just ride off!


 
Hadn't thought of that.


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## kedab (5 Nov 2012)

ManiaMuse said:


> Best thing to do in that situation is pull directly in front of him, don't look at him at all, and scratch your arse.


 
 that has made me chuckle...i will do my very best to remember this.


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## Matthew_T (5 Nov 2012)

womblechops said:


> Much better to open the car doors - _all of them_ and just ride off!


Or open the boot and pass on the passengers side. That will really p1ss them off.


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## Andrew_Culture (5 Nov 2012)

womblechops said:


> Much better to open the car doors - _all of them_ and just ride off!
> (NB: don't do this if the car has passengers in it as you will get flattened)



Wow! Imagine just how annoying it would be to open his tailgate!


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## Andrew_P (5 Nov 2012)

Pretty sure I have read on a forum someone grabbed the car keys and threw them in to the field and rode off. Trouble was it was on his commute and had to vary route clothing etc. Would have been better cycling just in front dangling the keys lol


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## Andrew_P (5 Nov 2012)

fossyant said:


> Road cleats - forget it. Like standing on ice !


I was thinking more of them sliding down the irrate motons shin..


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## 400bhp (5 Nov 2012)

LOCO said:


> Pretty sure I have read on a forum someone grabbed the car keys and threw them in to the field and rode off. Trouble was it was on his commute and had to vary route clothing etc. Would have been better cycling just in front dangling the keys lol


 
I tried to grab someone's manbag off a passenger seat from a convertible once, as he was calling me a daffodil.

Must have been amusing for the onlookers looking at two grown men fighting over a manbag


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## Rob3rt (5 Nov 2012)

400bhp said:


> *I tried to grab someone's manbag off a passenger seat from a convertible once, as he was calling me a ****.*
> 
> Must have been amusing for the onlookers looking at two grown men fighting over a manbag


 
WTF, lol!


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## markharry66 (5 Nov 2012)

Use the old south london trick azor blades in collar of my jacket and pocket full of loose change, I dont know why I dont have many friends


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## Sheffield_Tiger (5 Nov 2012)

My worst confrontation was something out of nothing

Car close passes shouting "pay effing road tax".

Now I *should* have been satisfied that the car would have been snapped illegally going through the tram gate (enforced) but for some reason I mouthed off back and indicated them to pull over.

Now, this was a car full of knuckle draggers and chavs and as it happens, their mates were in a following car, at which point discretion was indeed the better part of valour when the DID pull over they jumped out and swaggered towards me. I veered past and took primary to force a following car to act as a buffer between me and them.

When I took my turning, they followed and sped off - BUT - this route was 2 miles up a slow incline unlit rural road with plenty of hidden pull-ins, I spent the whole time scanning each pull in for signs of them waiting for me and looking for escape routes up bridleways etc because earlier they seemed spoiling for a scrap, and what better place to give somebody an 8-against-1 beating?

Thankfully they had sped off and continued, so I guess I "won" by having them stop in their mad rush, but it was a hollow victory and could have been a hell of a lot worse


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Lummy! Had a very close pass this morning and made an involuntary noise of surprise. Driver was flipping me the bird so I gave a cheery smile and a wave. He slammed on his brakes and skidded to stop (in heavy traffic) and I had no safe way of getting away from him so moved onto the pavement and looked for an escape route.

He started yelling at me from his window:

Him - "What the eff is your effen problem? Apart from the fact you're on a effen bike and you are a effen dickhead?"

Me (with calm body posture and gentle shrugging smile) - "both of those things probably"

He proceeded with remarkable vitriol and repeated offers to 'put me in an effen hole', this went on for some time and when the cars behind started sounding their horns he stepped up a gear and I decided that if he got out of his car to carry out his threats I could likely sprint to safety. I shrugged and said "oh be nice!" To which his voice went up an octave and he wheelspun away.

I know it's safer not to say anything at all, but it was all I could do to show him how calm I was and that he wasn't going to get fisticuffs from me. When I got to work I got a migraine and am now back at home.

This was my first commute in some time (after injuring myself) and it was spoilt! I didn't get the reg


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

If you cycle around Ipswich then watch out for black BMW with the reg n879 (or similar), he's more obsessed with holes than the Pontypines.


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## TheJDog (12 Jun 2013)

I have never been able to walk away from a fight in my life, and I wish I could start now. I think you could teach me a thing or two..


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## Maylian (12 Jun 2013)

Drago said:


> Ah miladdo, as part of the training i give i teach my students to use the bike as a defensive device and weapon.
> 
> I've had some good feedback over the years, including a PCSO who was attacked and managed to break the guys leg with the bike.
> 
> ...


 
I want some additional training then!

I've had a few experiences and I will shout at the drivers, being my size and increasingly muscular physique I'm not overly concerned about what are mostly tubby loud mouths in their cars getting upset at cyclists and what their reactions may be. As long as it is only their reactions and not their and the cars reaction...

My most recent confrontaction was a chav on a scooter riding it along footpaths, confronted him. He wanted it to go to fisticuffs despite my advantage. When I agreed and asked him to just wait whilst taking my camera out and started to try and "snap" his number plate he did the fastest vanishing act ever, and all on the road like a normal motorist. Whilst I don't condone / like violence I'm not afraid of it but I try and think of more intelligent ways to avoid it now


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## HLaB (12 Jun 2013)

Its funny how people react.
A couple of years back now but I was cycling up a wide quiet residential road at about 10:15am on my old commute when I was ovetrtaken by a car which had plenty of room to do so and did, but after he did so he slammed on the brakes and shouted something. 
I ignored it, but that only seemed to serve to wind him up further, with more erratic driving (braking, reversing at me, shouting etc); I continued to ignore  . 
He then drove off only to reappear a few moments later, with more of the same. This time I could make out his shouts 'try that again hard man and I'll effing kill you'.
My response 'Try what ?' only seemed to wind him up further 
Fortunately, the next part of my old commute took me by the Police HQ and that might have persuaded him to desist.
But what had made him react like that, mistaken identity and ignoring him only wound him up further


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## fossyant (12 Jun 2013)

Should have blown him a kiss !


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> Should have blown him a kiss !



Ha! His opener stating that he believed the existence of a bike below my body was a lamentable problem made it clear that we had little common ground to bond over.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

TheJDog said:


> I have never been able to walk away from a fight in my life, and I wish I could start now. I think you could teach me a thing or two..



I guess I may have internalised my upper hand, I used to support violent people with learning disabilities. I had training in passive defence. One of the guys I used to support was so damned tough he could wake from a general anaesthetic and be on his feet and running within ten minutes. I could handle that, so a pillock in a rough old Beemer didn't seem like someone I needed to test my mettle against. He'll, I don't care how rusty my mettle is to be honest.

I Wish this type of confrontation didn't give me such a pounding headache though.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Maylian said:


> I want some additional training then!
> 
> I've had a few experiences and I will shout at the drivers, being my size and increasingly muscular physique I'm not overly concerned about what are mostly tubby loud mouths in their cars getting upset at cyclists and what their reactions may be. As long as it is only their reactions and not their and the cars reaction...
> 
> My most recent confrontaction was a chav on a scooter riding it along footpaths, confronted him. He wanted it to go to fisticuffs despite my advantage. When I agreed and asked him to just wait whilst taking my camera out and started to try and "snap" his number plate he did the fastest vanishing act ever, and all on the road like a normal motorist. Whilst I don't condone / like violence I'm not afraid of it but I try and think of more intelligent ways to avoid it now



I'm quite a large fellow, but all this cycling has lost all my upper body bulk! With a scooter on a path he was clearly in the wrong and a discussion may assist the purp in realising this. My only crime was being a dickhead, which I can't really apologise for, in fact I think the ability to think differently could be my best asset


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## fossyant (12 Jun 2013)

I know the crime. You were riding single speed and not fixed, and he was questioning your manliness


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

fossyant said:


> I know the crime. You were riding single speed and not fixed, and he was questioning your manliness



Ha! That MUST have been it! The second he saw me freewheel he knew the world needed improving by the conversion of a grey haired SS rider to fixed!


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## Cletus Van Damme (12 Jun 2013)

Years ago I would of lost it but now I just ignore close passes. There seems to be quite a lot of body builders around here that look like they are into steroids. Knowing my luck it would be one of those driving if I gave a car driver the finger(s).


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Cheesney Hawks said:


> Years ago I would of lost it but now I just ignore close passes. There seems to be quite a lot of body builders around here that look like they are into steroids. Knowing my luck it would be one of those driving if I gave a car driver the finger(s).



I certainly don't like close passes but I too have learned not to comment. This one totally took me by surprise, if I knew how to access street view on ipad I'd show you how pinched the road is.

I was in a really good mood so it it was more 'cooey' that 'YaBass'


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## glenn forger (12 Jun 2013)

I love cycling and don't want anything or anyone to spoil it, but about three months ago a driver made me so mad I swore at him. Anyone know the silly cycle lane on Prince Of Wales Road in Norwich? Cycling west from Thorpe Road, at the lights outside the train station, I'm in the ASL to the right, lined up ready for the cycle lane that takes me up POW Road. Car undertakes to my left, driver says "Oy! You're on the wrong side!"

I say "I'm turning right, you fxxxxxx dxxxhead" and he slams the brakes on and gestures me to get closer. "Fxxxxxx muppet" I said, and cycled away.


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## Dave Davenport (12 Jun 2013)

Complete waste of time reporting any of this kind of stuff to the police in my experience.
I know it's not big or clever and I should know better at my age, and I keep telling myself to ignore it. But when some knobhead deliberately puts my life at risk because he thinks I should be on the cycle path or 'it's against the law to ride two abreast' or 'I don't pay road tax' I will do my utmost to, at the least scare the sh1t out of them so they think twice about doing again.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Incidentally when I told my (very cool) boss what happened he said 'you ought to get a helmet camera'. Oh how we chuckled


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## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2013)

It's only a matter of time until one of these 'brake slammers' gets rear ended by the following car, then it will be an interesting conversation between them and the Police.... unless it's already happened?


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Archie_tect said:


> It's only a matter of time until one of these 'brake slammers' gets rear ended by the following car, then it will be an interesting conversation between them and the Police.... unless it's already happened?



It would have been me in the middle! I did worry about him shooting back, which was another reason to move to the pavement.


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## Archie_tect (12 Jun 2013)

I like your approach Andrew- I take the same line.

Angry motorists can be relied on to do the most stupid things once they've lost it, so best avoided wherever possible: whatever it was that made them angry in the first place continues to fuel their spite until they've calmed down.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Archie_tect said:


> I like your approach Andrew- I take the same line.
> 
> Angry motorists can be relied on to do the most stupid things once they've lost it, so best avoided wherever possible: whatever it was that made them angry in the first place continues to fuel their spite until they've calmed down.



I think he may have been confused that I didn't disagree when he called me a dickhead


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Ipswich http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/motability-scooter-knocks-cyclist-into-river.132870/


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## albion (12 Jun 2013)

My last semi confrontation was mildly confusing.

I overtook white van man 'safely according to me' at the 'always there' stationary traffic. He shouted out to me 'you might get killed'.
I can't recall whether I had glared at him in anger over his totally pointless and dangerous pass manoeuvre on me 500 yards earlier.


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## Milzy (12 Jun 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Well that didnt stop the driver in this video having a go at me:
> 
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHIjwxnQFU&feature=g-upl




I see this everyday. He was a bit close but you were making a mountain out of a mole hill. All people with head cams seem to do this. What's the point of reacting like that. When you think of British soldiers who hear the snap crackle & pop of enemy bullets shooting past their ears, I bet even they don't react as much.


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## dodd82 (12 Jun 2013)

"All people with head cams seem to do this."

I have to pick you up on this. Have you considered that the pattern is actually the people with head cams *who are prepared to spend time putting close passes on YouTube*, rather than people with head cams in general?

I bought a head cam last year - have uploaded only two incidents, one of them is for comedy value with my mates as I fell off my bike, and another is to complain because a truck nearly hit me.

Other than, I ride mainly quite calmly, and the head cam hasn't changed that.


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## Dave Davenport (12 Jun 2013)

We were talking about this sort of thing on the club run today; why do some people turn into complete t00sers when they're in a car, when you could probably walk right into them on the pavement and they'd apologise to you?
Possible explanations mooted were;
That some people have little control over their crappy lives, hate the boss but have to brown nose to get on, sit in a traffic jam for an hour to get home from work etc. and all the pent up anger is released at someone they don't expect to have any trouble with because they're cocooned in a little metal world. 
And/or;
They're the same people who used to go on about 'blacks' and 'poofters' etc. but now cyclists are just about the only 'minority' group it's seen as ok to have a pop at.
I haven't been in a stand up fight for nearly 20 years and I can't imagine any other circumstances where I would these days, other than when I'm out on a bike.


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## Dave Davenport (12 Jun 2013)

dodd82 said:


> "Have you considered that the pattern is actually the people with head cams *who are prepared to spend time putting close passes on YouTube*, .


 
Good point.


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## Andrew_P (12 Jun 2013)

The car vs human makes them feel powerful, that and a jealousy that they are not even aware of. The fact that Andrew didn't react back enforced his sense of power. In other words they farking bullies


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> The car vs human makes them feel powerful, that and a jealousy that they are not even aware of. The fact that Andrew didn't react back enforced his sense of power. In other words they f***ing bullies



I also managed not to simper or apologise without raising the testosterone levels of the encounter.


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## Andrew_P (12 Jun 2013)

Andrew_Culture said:


> I also managed not to simper or apologise without raising the testosterone levels of the encounter.


I wasn't saying you did anything wrong, doesn't detract from the fact that his bullying escalated as he was making the decision of possible retaliation.


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## Andrew_Culture (12 Jun 2013)

Andrew_P said:


> I wasn't saying you did anything wrong, doesn't detract from the fact that his bullying escalated as he was making the decision of possible retaliation.



Oh I see what you mean. I've been trying to think about lessons I can take from this, but there's no planning for odd folk.


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## jarlrmai (12 Jun 2013)

campbellab said:


> I'm not sure I'm a confident enough rider to attempt that maneuvre!


 

bonus points if you can do it without unclipping.


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## Milzy (12 Jun 2013)

Cams are great yeah, if he had hit you then you'd have the t0$$er by the balls. My point is some people with cams make something out of nothing. There's a guy on youtube from London with stacks of vids & he's just shouting wooooaaah at every car that goes past. Yes he did have a few moments when he rightly should have done, but loads of stuff he could have ignored.


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## hopless500 (12 Jun 2013)

No confrontations so far. But no doubt it'll happen. And when I am confronted and lose it I have a habit of swearing like a rabid Irishman (or woman) 
(no offence intended for any lovely Irish folks out there )
{I blame my interesting language on working in stables when I was younger. Nothing works quite as well as swearing when a horse has it's hoof on your foot and you can't move it - the horse that is}


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## albion (12 Jun 2013)

What I found interesting was that the drivers can be genuinely ignorant.
When that guy suggested I 'might get killed' I asked if it would be 'by him'.

There appeared to be little recognition in his exasperated look of his own 'in a rush' dangerous overtaking earlier.


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## jarlrmai (12 Jun 2013)

I think for some the argument is for trying to make sure drivers know it's not acceptable, you let shoot go all the time and no-one ever even thinks about it and nothing changes, then that same driver knocks someone off.

The trigger point for some drivers is very low, even riding in primary to avoid some serious pot holes whilst approaching a red light, got me a beep and a "Share the road" from a driver the other day, when I asked if she saw the potholes she said no, I said maybe you should look at the road then.."

It's easy to get conditioned to it being "just the way it is" and I see some cyclists with an almost Stockholm syndrome attitude towards drivers, having a go at people who challenge dangerous driving "I get close passed all the time and I don't say anything, man up, ignore it" kind of attitude.

I think the only way is better enforcement and a true culture change which will probably only come about if more people start to cycle and the Kevin Bacon number gets lower for actually knowing a cyclist, which is probably a chicken and egg scenario as people won't cycle if it feels unsafe.

That or dedicated cycle highways with true separation, then it will probably be roadies versus casuals


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## TehOne (12 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> I see this everyday. He was a bit close but you were making a mountain out of a mole hill. All people with head cams seem to do this. What's the point of reacting like that. When you think of British soldiers who hear the snap crackle & pop of enemy bullets shooting past their ears, I bet even they don't react as much.


 
Is this a joke? In what way was it an overreaction? Stopping your car & reversing on a main road, thus presenting a hazard to any other users of that road, in order to confront a cyclist who reacted in the same way anyone would under similar circumstances is an overreaction. Was he hoping to make an example of this cyclist in front of his children? I bet they really enjoyed watching dad have a half arsed pop at someone who'd done nothing wrong.

If you think this was an overreaction on the cyclists part, you're utterly stupid & I sure as wouldn't ride with you.


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## Milzy (12 Jun 2013)

jarlrmai said:


> I think for some the argument is for trying to make sure drivers know it's not acceptable, you let s*** go all the time and no-one ever even thinks about it and nothing changes, then that same driver knocks someone off.
> 
> The trigger point for some drivers is very low, even riding in primary to avoid some serious pot holes whilst approaching a red light, got me a beep and a "Share the road" from a driver the other day, when I asked if she saw the potholes she said no, I said maybe you should look at the road then.."
> 
> ...


 
Totally agree. We have so many pot holes now, we have to go far into the road. Fixing them or building stand alone cycle routes both costs money they won't spend. Drivers need educating. I've never had a problem with any cyclist before. I did get cut up on a roundabout for the first time last week as some imbecile was in the wrong lane. The government needs to look at dishing points out to get people 12 month bans to remove idiots from our roads, then they will be more careful the next time.


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> I see this everyday. He was a bit close but you were making a mountain out of a mole hill. All people with head cams seem to do this. What's the point of reacting like that. When you think of British soldiers who hear the snap crackle & pop of enemy bullets shooting past their ears, I bet even they don't react as much.


 
There reaction to being shot at is to shoot back and kill the farker shooting at them. A bit more than just shouting at them.. Sadly I cant drive a car into people who close pass me or nearly knock me off.... Not to mention they are trained for such a situation and thats part of the job. Getting close passes and some ignorant nobber trying to pass on his stupidness is not part of cycling.


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## Milzy (12 Jun 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> Difference being they can shoot back and kill the f***er shooting at them. Sadly I cant drive a car into them.... Not to mention they are trained for such a situation and thats part of the job. Getting close passes and some ignorant nobber trying to pass on his stupidness is not part of cycling.


 
I hear you & techone but I've only been back cycling for a few weeks & i'm just getting used to close passes. It's totally ***t as I used to go MTB off road before & only used the roads for a small % of the journey. I will save my reaction for when I'm knocked off then I'll probably punch them hard in the jaw. Then again two wrongs don't make a right but heat of the moment things happen. I believe every body in the country should be taking driving re-tests every few years. If you look at gas safe fitters & coded welders, they have periodical exams/tests to pass. We need to get more bad motorists off the road simple as.


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> I hear you & techone but I've only been back cycling for a few weeks & i'm just getting used to close passes. It's totally *hit as I used to go MTB off road before & only used the roads for a small % of the journey. I will save my reaction for when I'm knocked off then I'll probably punch them hard in the jaw. Then again two wrongs don't make a right but heat of the moment things happen. I believe every body in the country should be taking driving re-tests every few years. If you look at gas safe fitters & coded welders, they have periodical exams/tests to pass. We need to get more bad motorists off the road simple as.


 
We can hope. However when you hit them if you give them 3 lefts it makes a right 
I'm use to close passes but I think that's a rather sad thing. I shouldn't have to be use to it or expect it when every car is going to overtake..


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## Matthew_T (12 Jun 2013)

I am not allowed to be a tosser when driving. The only thing I do now is just sigh and be hesitant as to what the person is doing (i.e. give them room).


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> Cams are great yeah, if he had hit you then you'd have the t0$$er by the balls. My point is some people with cams make something out of nothing. There's a guy on youtube from London with stacks of vids & he's just shouting wooooaaah at every car that goes past. Yes he did have a few moments when he rightly should have done, but loads of stuff he could have ignored.


 
Sonofthewind lol


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> I am not allowed to be a tosser when driving. The only thing I do now is just sigh and be hesitant as to what the person is doing (i.e. give them room).


 
Off on a tangent here but when you drive do you have your cameras mounted in the car?


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## Milzy (12 Jun 2013)

Look at Dr.Harold Shipman in the white van at the end. Awesome!


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## Matthew_T (12 Jun 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> Off on a tangent here but when you drive do you have your cameras mounted in the car?


Not in my instructors car. Dont think he would like that. When I get my own car I probably will.


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> Not in my instructors car. Dont think he would like that. When I get my own car I probably will.


 
You could ask him for a kinda look back on lessons and see what was done wrong see again what was said etc. Unless its a sticky mount or something you cant put there and remove.


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## Matthew_T (12 Jun 2013)

Cycling Dan said:


> You could ask him for a kinda look back on lessons and see what was done wrong see again what was said etc. Unless its a sticky mount or something you cant put there and remove.


I would probably just use some tape to secure it in place, so that it doesnt damage the car. I dont know if @gavroche is reading this though. It would be good to be able to watch back the footage and review where I went wrong. I probably wouldnt upload anything to YT though.


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## Dave Davenport (12 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> Look at Dr.Harold Shipman in the white van at the end. Awesome!




Yes, why does he use a helmet cam? None of the drivers in any of those clips will change their behaviour because he filmed them. Whereas if he'd dragged some of them out of their windows and beat the sh1t out of them..........


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## Deleted member 20519 (12 Jun 2013)

Give us a link to your Youtube channel when the video is online


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## Matthew_T (12 Jun 2013)

jazloc said:


> Give us a link to your Youtube channel when the video is online


As I said before, I probably wouldnt upload anything. Nothing worth uploading really.


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## Cycling Dan (12 Jun 2013)

Matthew_T said:


> As I said before, I probably wouldnt upload anything. Nothing worth uploading really.


 
You making mistakes while driving a car. I think that's a gold mine. Maybe not for you but a gold mine it is.


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## Crankarm (13 Jun 2013)

Milzy said:


> I hear you & techone but *I've only been back cycling for a few weeks* & i'm just getting used to close passes. It's totally *hit as I used to go MTB off road before & only used the roads for a small % of the journey. I will save my reaction for when I'm knocked off then I'll probably punch them hard in the jaw. Then again two wrongs don't make a right but heat of the moment things happen. I believe every body in the country should be taking driving re-tests every few years. If you look at gas safe fitters & coded welders, they have periodical exams/tests to pass. We need to get more bad motorists off the road simple as.


 
This. You are new to some thing, find you don't like it or can't get on with it so want to change everything as it is every one elses' fault. Get real.


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## Milzy (13 Jun 2013)

Crankarm said:


> This. You are new to some thing, find you don't like it or can't get on with it so want to change everything as it is every one elses' fault. Get real.


 
Do tell us all your 'real' solution to the problem of traffic related problems to cyclists such as 'close passes' then?


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## Amack (13 Jun 2013)

Basically nobody gives a rats ass about anyone else anymore. It's not just when I'm cycling I see such horrendous selfish driving, the difference is my bike has no side impact bars or airbags to protect me.

Only thing they could do is if you want to pass your driving test, you have to do a cycling one too. 

The OP is right, it's not worth engaging with the driver, has anyone yet had a driver stop to apologise? By the same token some cyclists would do well to improve their cyclecraft, but that's another thread!


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## albion (13 Jun 2013)

Yes,

A taxi driver pulled out on me recent. A genuine mistake and maybe a sideways (route curioisity) glance by me slightly distracted his thought pattern.
He was driving gently and I managed to take safe evasive action.

The fact was he safe style of driving saved the day for his error. He wound the windows down and apologised.
I have also had 'hand up I'm guilty' plenty of time too.

And drivers invariably show their appreciation of actions too.


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## Andrew_Culture (14 Jun 2013)

Amack said:


> Basically nobody gives a rats ass about anyone else anymore. It's not just when I'm cycling I see such horrendous selfish driving, the difference is my bike has no side impact bars or airbags to protect me.
> 
> Only thing they could do is if you want to pass your driving test, you have to do a cycling one too.
> 
> The OP is right, it's not worth engaging with the driver, has anyone yet had a driver stop to apologise? By the same token some cyclists would do well to improve their cyclecraft, but that's another thread!



The smile and shrug I gave this nutter (on the rare occasion that I air it) usually gets a contrite wave and apologetic smile from drivers.


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## TheDoctor (14 Jun 2013)

Crankarm said:


> This. You are new to some thing, find you don't like it or can't get on with it so want to change everything as it is every one elses' fault. Get real.


 
A well-reasoned point, put in your usual constructive style. Well done!!


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## Kestevan (14 Jun 2013)

TheDoctor said:


> A well-reasoned point, put in your usual constructive style. Well done!!


 
Oi, Doctor, you owe me a new Sarcasm meter.

Crankarm - correct me if I'm wrong, but your "solution" to road cycling was to decide the roads were not safe for cyclists at all and to give up entirely?


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## Milzy (14 Jun 2013)

Kestevan said:


> Oi, Doctor, you owe me a new Sarcasm meter.
> 
> Crankarm - correct me if I'm wrong, but your "solution" to road cycling was to decide the roads were not safe for cyclists at all and to give up entirely?


 
Yeah & he's always cranky.


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