# When is a climb too steep? When the pros have to walk



## machew (27 Mar 2013)

link to article


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## Scoosh (27 Mar 2013)

Ouch !


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## Rob3rt (27 Mar 2013)

Old news, also it was not the gradient of the climb on its own merit that was the killer, it was the point in the race it was placed and the preceding climbs. Even the race organiser said he took it too far.


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## Sara_H (27 Mar 2013)

Like my ride home from work.......


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## montage (27 Mar 2013)

It's worth bearing in mind that most of these guys are already on the limit when they hit the climb. Riding a climb in a RR or TT is very different to riding one in the middle of a club run.

I do wonder at what point it becomes more economical whilst maintaining speed to walk than ride


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## Herr-B (27 Mar 2013)

Looks no worse than the climb to the finish for the Lincoln Sportive (and Grand Prix the following day!) up Michaelgate. Although I won't just have done 200km beforehand.


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## Peteaud (27 Mar 2013)

Froome had a 36 /28 and he said that was to hard.


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## BrumJim (28 Mar 2013)

On the Kidderminster Killer last year on the hill out of Clun, Alberto (of this forum) had a re-think on his "stay on the bike" philospophy when the third member of our group was doing the same speed as him, even though he was pushing his bike up the hill.
Me? I was further behind, already walking, after having fallen over trying to get going again, and had given up the idea of carrying on on two wheels.


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## Steve H (28 Mar 2013)

Too proud to ride with a triple chainset! ;-)


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## thegravestoneman (28 Mar 2013)

That was one of the advantages of doing my 100's on a trike never had to get off and push just hold it on the brakes to stop rolling back and wait for breath to come back. But none the less b#gg#r me pro's walking!!


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## cyberknight (28 Mar 2013)

apex groupset with 34x32 , it will get you up a cliff 
Surely the DS of the teams would have let the riders know before hand and thought a bit more about gear choice ?


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## Richard A Thackeray (2 Apr 2013)

Quite a few years ago, during the Tour of Ireland, didn't Sean Kelly come to a halt/fall-off going a hill near the finish, & have to be pushed up by his team-mates, as it was too steep to set off normally?? 
Now, if that horse of a man couldn't restart..................


Worst climb that I know, that has caused chaos in the 'Tour of Britain', & especially on a damp/wet day (when it's a complete nightmare) is one that's called 'Shibden Wall' (officially Lee Lane)
I'm not sure if that's a local name, or just one that was made-up by the race presenters??

it's in the Shibden Valley, at Halifax (OS 104; SE 095 273), & climbs past the Shbden Mill Inn.
I know that my own attempts to ride it have failed in the wet.




Then, on normal roads, 'The Strines' in South Yorkshire (Mortimer Road) are the hardest I've ridden regularly


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## User169 (2 Apr 2013)

There was quite a bit of walking on the Koppenberg this weekend during RVV, although that's more because the road's narrow and there are too many riders trying to get up at once. Merckx was saying yesterday that the organizers should scrap the Koppenberg.


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## Hip Priest (2 Apr 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Old news, also it was not the gradient of the climb on its own merit that was the killer, it was the point in the race it was placed and the preceding climbs.


 
Despite being nothing like a pro, I can relate to that. There's a climb I train on regularly, which is taxing but do-able. When I tried to do it on a recent century, straight after two other big climbs, it nigh on killed me. Only my mate shouting encouragement at me stopped me from climbing off!

Having said that, I couldn't get up the hill in the OP after an hour of rest and three Weetabix.


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## Hip Priest (2 Apr 2013)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Quite a few years ago, during the Tour of Ireland, didn't Sean Kelly come to a halt/fall-off going a hill near the finish, & have to be pushed up by his team-mates, as it was too steep to set off normally??
> Now, if that horse of a man couldn't restart..................
> 
> 
> ...




Jesus. I'd need a Stannah stairlift to get up there. A carbon one.


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## Breedon (3 Apr 2013)

Would of liked to hear original the sound track to that video


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## Richard A Thackeray (3 Apr 2013)

Breedon said:


> Would of liked to hear original the sound track to that video


"Gasp, beep, beep, gasp, censored!, gasp!!"????


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## johnr (4 Apr 2013)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Quite a few years ago, during the Tour of Ireland, didn't Sean Kelly come to a halt/fall-off going a hill near the finish, & have to be pushed up by his team-mates, as it was too steep to set off normally??
> Now, if that horse of a man couldn't restart..................
> 
> 
> ...



chapeau!


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## johnr (4 Apr 2013)

I'm not sure where it comes on the route, but the cobbles on Haworth main street during the t'Tour could be something in the wet (current odds 4:1 on)


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## Richard A Thackeray (5 May 2013)

I think I've found that takes tthe biscuit for me this morning

I've been over at Halifax to run the 'Bluebell 10'
http://www.stainlandlions.com/Club_Races/2013/BluebellTrail/index.htm

In that, at approximately the 4 mile mark, is a partially cobbled (public/'normal') road called Trooper Lane.
According to the route information, it rises 570 feet in half a mile!! - that would be a serious climb in any fell-race!!
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1804097


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## Zofo (9 May 2013)

Looks the climb out of Matlock--ouch !


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## Richard A Thackeray (24 Oct 2013)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Worst climb that I know, that has caused chaos in the 'Tour of Britain', & especially on a damp/wet day (when it's a complete nightmare) is one that's called 'Shibden Wall' (officially Lee Lane)
> I'm not sure if that's a local name, or just one that was made-up by the race presenters??
> 
> it's in the Shibden Valley, at Halifax (OS 104; SE 095 273), & climbs past the Shbden Mill Inn.
> I know that my own attempts to ride it have failed in the wet.




This week, someone, as a birthday present, bought me a copy of that _'100 Greatest Cycling Climbs'_ book, & Shibden Wall is in there, rated at 8/10 (number 40, I think?)


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## Rob3rt (24 Oct 2013)

What are the ratings based on? I don't have the book, although wouldn't mind a copy tbh. The book doesn't contain the 100 most severe climbs though, it contains the "greatest" climbs. Loads of them are low gradient and/or rolling but are included for other reasons. For example, Long Hill is in there I think, that is barely uphill for much of the way. Similarly the Cat and Fiddle. Is Cragg Vale in the book?

Looking at that video of Shibden wall, I would say the difficulty is the cobbles, esp in bad conditions, not necessarily the gradient. I would have no problem with a gradient like that, but the cobbles would be slippy in the wet and even in the dry might cause you to lose momentum which can be hard to regain on the steeper bits.


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## martint235 (24 Oct 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> What are the ratings based on? I don't have the book, although wouldn't mind a copy tbh. The book doesn't contain the 100 most severe climbs though, it contains the "greatest" climbs. Loads of them are low gradient and/or rolling but are included for other reasons. For example, Long Hill is in there I think, that is barely uphill for much of the way. Similarly the Cat and Fiddle. Is Cragg Vale in the book?
> 
> Looking at that video of Shibden wall, I would say the difficulty is the cobbles, esp in bad conditions, not necessarily the gradient. I would have no problem with a gradient like that, but the cobbles would be slippy in the wet and even in the dry might cause you to lose momentum which can be hard to regain on the steeper bits.


 I think Yad Moss is in there too and that's just long but with some stunning views.


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## Linford (24 Oct 2013)

I've got a 30% gradient a couple of miles from where I'm sat now. It is the only hill which has defeated my 4x4 in the snow.

My training ride is up 20-25% gradient up another hill. I'm aiming to take in that 30% at some stage and see how far up I can get.

I won't lie, they are killers, and I'm crawling up them.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bu...d=6IrioEHNL1XnwDbPvWxUFQ&cbp=12,68.67,,0,9.71


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## GrasB (24 Oct 2013)

Rob3rt said:


> Old news, also it was not the gradient of the climb on its own merit that was the killer, it was the point in the race it was placed and the preceding climbs. Even the race organiser said he took it too far.


I thought another part of the problem was that when riders came to a near halt they couldn't get going again due to high gearing & grip problems on the wet surface.


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## Spinney (24 Oct 2013)

Linford said:


> I've got a 30% gradient a couple of miles from where I'm sat now. It is the only hill which has defeated my 4x4 in the snow.
> 
> My training ride is up 20-25% gradient up another hill. I'm aiming to take in that 30% at some stage and see how far up I can get.
> 
> ...


I cycled down that once, without realising how steep it was. Not quite brown trousers, but my hands ached from pulling on the brakes at the bottom. You can't just bomb down it because you don't know what might be coming the other way, and there ain't no room to pass!


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## Linford (24 Oct 2013)

Spinney said:


> I cycled down that once, without realising how steep it was. Not quite brown trousers, but my hands ached from pulling on the brakes at the bottom. You can't just bomb down it because you don't know what might be coming the other way, and there ain't no room to pass!




We have got 3 roads (nearly) like that on that side of Cleeve Hill above Bishops Cleeve, got 2 like that on Aggs Hill and Ham, then Lillybrook hill and Leckhampton hill...I've got a good selection of killers to pick from all surrounding the town 
Leckhampton hill and Lillybrook hill are my preferred choices as you can bomb down Lillybrook hill..I nearly touched 50 on Sunday down there


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## Rob3rt (24 Oct 2013)

GrasB said:


> I thought another part of the problem was that when riders came to a near halt they couldn't get going again due to high gearing & grip problems on the wet surface.



That probably was part of the problem, but you would have that problem on pretty much any hill over about 15-16% unless someone pushes you off. I know I can't (not that I am comparable to a pro of course). You just aren't going to get going again unless you go across the road, you can't do that with a whole peloton (or even a reduced peloton walking, weaving about and spectators adding difficulty) around you, so I don't think that complaint could really be levied about this incidence. 

Going back to the original thread title, I don't think the question is off a hill being too steep (because the demands placed on the riders depends on the composition of the whole stage, not one hill), I think the question that should be asked is "when has an organiser taken the severity of a stage too far?" and the answer IMO is when they have prioritised the spectacle over the athletes well-being! I can see why they are tempted to add in these things and produce truly brutal stages, they are all searching for something to set their event apart from the others, in doing so, they try to out do each other etc, but somewhere along the way, the well-being of the riders becomes de-prioritised, the riders are people and not just a source of entertainment.


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## winjim (24 Oct 2013)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Then, on normal roads, 'The Strines' in South Yorkshire (Mortimer Road) are the hardest I've ridden regularly





Richard A Thackeray said:


> Then, on normal roads, 'The Strines' in South Yorkshire (Mortimer Road) are the hardest I've ridden regularly


Strines? Pah! That's my evening pootle. On what some might term a "heavy" steel bike and all. Compact chainset mind...


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## Crankarm (24 Oct 2013)

winjim said:


> Strines? Pah! That's my evening pootle. On what some might term a "heavy" steel bike and all. Compact chainset mind...



Wot, not even on your fixie?!


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## Winnershsaint (24 Oct 2013)

Here is a selection from close to me. The first isn't mega steep but the narrowness of the road, the almost claustraphobic feeling you get, allied to the atrocious surface make this way more daunting than it would appear. I once shipped my chain on the steepest part of this climb and had to restart. Not an easy proposition.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=ho...gl=uk&ei=FvpoUomCOojC7Aad3IE4&ved=0CC4Q8gEwAA
The second is made more difficult because it is almost impossible to carry any momentum into it. Either approach involves a 90 degree turn and percentages in the mid to upper teens pretty much immediately. This is frequently used in sportives. My Garmin kept going on to auto pause (set at 3mph) when I went up it around 30 miles in to a 70 mile event.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ox...F-8&ei=WvtoUt2SKdSjhgebgoHgBw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg
All of which re-iterates what others have said, that there are a multitude of other factors that work in conjunction with out and steepness that make a hill difficult for any cyclist.


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