# A thread for garmin problems you've fixed



## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

Perhaps it can develop into a useful resource for those of us with Garmins, so would prefer it not to descend into a garmin vs.....whatever thread.

So far Garmin support has not managed to solve a single issue I've had, so here are the problems I've solved myself.

This is for an Edge810.

Garmin initially crashed on save when I first tested it. A reset and a software update did solve this
Garmin's Android Connect did not work on my phone. Updating Android Web View solved this
Garmin stopped working with navigation completely after becoming increasingly unreliable. A hard reset (Garmin supports stock answer), briefly got it working unreliably and it kept crashing before giving up completely and stopping Livetrack working as well. After some head scratching I reformatted the SD card and re-loaded the Openstreetmaps and everything sprung back into life
A word on maps: I've used several different versions of Openstreetmaps and each one gives slightly different navigation cues. I'm currently using these, the generic routable and the generic routable new style with both enabled. I've also used the talkytoaster ones but they gave me some odd cues so I've taken them off while I investigate that further. On another card I have an old version of Garmin's City navigator maps. They work but sometimes give odd cues as well, so Openstreetmaps remains my stock mapping, even though it's far from perfect. I load routes via ridewithgps which I've found to be the most reliable.


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## gavroche (13 Sep 2017)

I have a garmin 200 and although it works well when on a ride, it doesn't load up on garmin express Got it touch with garmin support on live chat and all went well until I got cut off from the expert as I was too slow to follow his guidance, he got fed up with waiting as I am no expert on computers. So, since December 31st 2016, all the rides I have done are saved on Garmin 200 but not on Garmin Express. Very frustrating and I am not contacting live chat again.


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## MossCommuter (13 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> I have a garmin 200 and although it works well when on a ride, it doesn't load up on garmin express Got it touch with garmin support on live chat and all went well until I got cut off from the expert as I was too slow to follow his guidance, he got fed up with waiting as I am no expert on computers. So, since December 31st 2016, all the rides I have done are saved on Garmin 200 but not on Garmin Express. Very frustrating and I am not contacting live chat again.


I had exactly the same experience.

I put it down to Windows 10 not wanting to play.

I never fixed it (and I am pretty tech. savvy) but I was fed up of the Garmin as a toy anyway so I gave it away.


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> I have a garmin 200 and although it works well when on a ride, it doesn't load up on garmin express Got it touch with garmin support on live chat and all went well until I got cut off from the expert as I was too slow to follow his guidance, he got fed up with waiting as I am no expert on computers. So, since December 31st 2016, all the rides I have done are saved on Garmin 200 but not on Garmin Express. Very frustrating and I am not contacting live chat again.


Try this
https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-US/faq/content/PsxSBlFqTL57tN38aI6m29


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## Drago (13 Sep 2017)

gavroche said:


> I have a garmin 200 and although it works well when on a ride, it doesn't load up on garmin express Got it touch with garmin support on live chat and all went well until I got cut off from the expert as I was too slow to follow his guidance, he got fed up with waiting as I am no expert on computers. So, since December 31st 2016, all the rides I have done are saved on Garmin 200 but not on Garmin Express. Very frustrating and I am not contacting live chat again.



It's a right royal PITA but you can copy the files from the Garmin to your PC, and then manually upload them into Garmin Express, strava, or whatever.


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## gavroche (13 Sep 2017)

Crackle said:


> Try this
> https://support.garmin.com/faqSearch/en-US/faq/content/PsxSBlFqTL57tN38aI6m29


Thanks Crackle, I will give it a go next time I switch my laptop on.


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## Venod (13 Sep 2017)

The rubber cover on the recharging port at the back of the 520 is held with a screw and pivots out of the way on a thin bit of rubber, this thin bit broke so I put the screw through the main rubber, cover its been fine since.


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## Dogtrousers (13 Sep 2017)

When an Edge Touring Plus* is powered off half way through a ride, when you power it on again it offers you "save" and "discard" as options. If you want to do neither (ie carry on recording) then press the start/pause button.

Thanks to the CC'ers who tipped me off about this.

* May apply to other Edge models.


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> When an Edge Touring Plus* is powered off half way through a ride, when you power it on again it offers you "save" and "discard" as options. If you want to do neither (ie carry on recording) then press the start/pause button.
> 
> Thanks to the CC'ers who tipped me off about this.
> 
> * May apply to other Edge models.


It does but it may well screw up your elevation data if you do it. Especially if you switch it off for a pub stop


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## RoubaixCube (13 Sep 2017)

My 520 got stuck in an 'endless validation' trying to update to new firmware. Through Googling i found out that i needed to power the device off, plug it into my pc and delete a file called 'gupdate.gcd' before restarting again and syncing it though the garmin app to install the update


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## mjr (13 Sep 2017)

My top Garmin problem is people wittering on about Garmin problems. So far I've tried to fix it by persuading people to try OSMand~ on their phones, but it's not solved them all yet.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Sep 2017)

Tried OSMAND but it just crashed all the time.


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

Can we try and keep it to fixed Garmin problems or at worst, ones that need fixing. Tah.


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

There is also a very excellent help guide on ridewithgps about setup and guidance on various units. I used it to setup my navigation options on the 810.

https://ridewithgps.com/help/category/gps-devices/


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> Or did you just ride over a cliff after leaving the pub?
> 
> (Actually when I have this problem it's because the device has switched _itself _off. I actually try not to do it at all)


It felt like I was cycling up a cliff after the pub!

And you've reminded me, I've used this site to join two rides after the unit switched itself off and this site to repair corrupted files


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## Venod (13 Sep 2017)

if you have updated your maps with third party maps you may have a large file, when a large update is needed it may not work and tell you there is not enough room to update, temporary remove the large file to another location on your computer, when the update is finished replace the file.


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## Crackle (13 Sep 2017)

If you have issues with some turns not being cued on your route try using a different mapping software. You can check before you do your route by (on the 810) loading your course and then when it's finished calculating and acquiring satellites, if you touch the top of the map all of the course cues/turns are displayed. you can go through these individually to ensure all the turns you've mapped are cued. Clicking on each turn should display the turn on the map.

In theory you can add cuepoints to your route, in practise I've found this to be hit and miss. The route must be downloaded as .tcx file but the coursepoints don't warn they just display on the map. So if you created one saying, cafe, you will see it on the map but not get a warning about it.


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## Lpoolck (16 Sep 2017)

My Edge 1000 at random times will display "touchscreen locked" and I am unable to do anything unless I stop my ride and start it again. Does anyone know how to disable the touchscreen lock feature?


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## ianrauk (21 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> How to calibrate an Edge Touring Plus altimeter.
> 
> The manual doesn't say anything of any real use.
> 
> ...




Then in that case. Wouldn't it be a good idea to calibrate from your home so that when you leave for a ride it's all set.


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## ianrauk (21 Sep 2017)

Dogtrousers said:


> This what I do ... except ... there are times when it resolutely refuses to pick up satellites for a good 5 minutes, so it misses my home one. Even on a good day it often isn't awake by the time I've left. So I've added some extra points on my regular routes in the hope that these will work if the first one doesn't.




aha good call.
Luckily where I live, which is on a ridge. I do seem to pick up satellites very quickly with the Touring.


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## PeteXXX (2 Oct 2017)

My Garmin 705 stopped uploading rides to Strava. I reset it, and after that failed to sort the issue, I uninstalled/reinstalled Garmin Express on my laptop. Still no joy.
Then, for no known reason, it started to sync properly again.
The only problem still happening is on the screenie below.







Is 'current.gpx' the ride I've just done and uploaded?


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## Crackle (3 Oct 2017)

One of your activity files is probably corrupt and it can't load it to Garmin Connect.


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## PeteXXX (3 Oct 2017)

I delete it manually, as suggested, but next time I upload a ride, back pops the applet.


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## Crackle (3 Oct 2017)

Ah, I see. I don't know the 705 so hopefully someone who does may see this but I did find this

https://forums.garmin.com/forum/on-...ion-gpx-files-disappeared-from-current-folder

Which tends to suggest it's something to do with tracks not activities.


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## PeteXXX (3 Oct 2017)

I’ll check that out when I finish work, thanks.


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## Crackle (10 Jan 2018)

For all current Edge810 owners the software has been updated to 6.3 which fixes any crashes at the beginning end of the ride when following a course. I'm hopeful this will actually work as that was something that occasionally happened to mine.


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## huwsparky (15 Jan 2018)

Solved my Garmin issues with a hammer!


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## Blue Hills (20 Jan 2018)

Crackle said:


> Can we try and keep it to fixed Garmin problems or at worst, ones that need fixing. Tah.


+1


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## Blue Hills (20 Jan 2018)

I have an Etrex 20. Despite the steep learning curve (with sod all help from Garmin) and its several oddities I find it generally wonderful and have no intention of going "upmarket" to touchscreen, built in battery, something that tells me how much blood per minute is pumping through my big left toe at various cadences,

But, every now and again (maybe 3 times in all the years I have had it) it appears to lose all the routes and waypoints stored on it.

I think this has usually happened after an irregular shutdown, maybe when a battery power problem hit it in mid boot-up or whatever.

But panic not.

If you connect the Etrex 20 to a PC (or in my case now a chromebook) you will usually see that all the things are actually still on the unit - it's just that the Etrex can't see them.

From my experience of a few bits of computer kit like this I assume that it is just an indexing problem.

So:

Just connect the Garmin to the laptop.

Find waypoints files on garmin internal memory.

Move them off temporarily.

Reboot and then switch off the garmin (this stage may not be necessary but belt and braces and it is reassuring to see that it still boots at this stage)

Reconnect Garmin to laptop and move the self same waypoint files to where they were before.

Unplug Garmin from laptop and boot it up.

All routes and waypoints should be visible again.

A particularly useful solution since of course you aren't restoring from a separate backup but from what's already sat in the thing. So as long as you can grab accesss to a PC or whatever (an android tab with OTG would work) you can use this fix on tour.


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## mjr (20 Jan 2018)

User13710 said:


> As technology goes, that is worse than useless as far as I'm concerned, as I don't trust it to work.


Situation Normal: AFU.

PACE: Primary plan, Alternate plan, Contingency plan, Emergency plan. (Yes, I know it's been surpassed for its original use.)


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## Blue Hills (20 Jan 2018)

User13710 said:


> Thank you, funnily enough that is more or less exactly what made me give up on the thing. Having made sure the routes were all there, via my PC at home, I took the Garmin on holiday full of confidence that I could rely on it. But when I switched it on it wouldn't show me anything useful. As technology goes, that is worse than useless as far as I'm concerned, as I don't trust it to work. So, basically, I wasted over a hundred quid.


Solution above thanks to the OPs great thread start.


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## Mile195 (19 Feb 2018)

Garmin Edge 1000: the "2019 bug". Fixing files so Strava will accept them:

This is where rides are marked with a date, often in April 2019, which causes the strava upload to fail. Garmin will almost certainly never fix this problem - they already have your money, and a new model out now for you to buy instead...

Anyway, that aside sometimes you can fix the time errors using the "fit file tools" link in the strava support section. However, sometimes even this won't fix the corrupt data - now it feels like that ride is lost forever.... but it's not:

If you find this happens, use the same set of tools, but instead of "fix corrupt time data", choose to amend the start time of the ride. You can even amend it to the same time as it already was, but it seems to re-generate the time data in such a way that Strava will now accept the new file.

So not so much a "fix" as a "fudge", but at least you won't get cheated out of any miles as far as your Strava followers are converned!


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## Bazzer (19 Feb 2018)

Edge 500 suddenly refused to communicate with my laptop, although it had done for the last three years. Charge yes: Transfer data no. 
Tried a couple of other apparently similar cables from my electrical wires box, but no luck. It would still charge, but would not recognise the device. Downloaded the latest software from Garmin, but would still only charge.
Discovered by accident that my TomTom satnav had a similar cable. Tried that and lo and behold Garmin will now transfer data.


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## Crackle (21 Apr 2019)

If you haven't used your Garmin for a long time due to illness, injury or laziness and you plan to use it on the turbo with the GPS off, let it get a gps fix first, otherwise it will assign the last date and time to the activity that it had a fix and then you'll wonder why the activity hasn't synced and spend half an hour looking for it, only to find it in the past! Don't ask me how I know this.


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## andrew_s (24 Apr 2019)

A 64s that wouldn't hold satellite locks, shortly after going out of warranty.
At start-up the satellites showed good signals, but it mostly wouldn't lock on, and if it did it would lose the lock just down the road. The recommended factory reset didn't help.

Fixed by turning Glonass off (i.e. GPS+Glonass --> GPS only).
I've not tried turning Glonass back on to see if it was a temporary blip.


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## ColinJ (24 Apr 2019)

Bazzer said:


> Edge 500 suddenly refused to communicate with my laptop, although it had done for the last three years. Charge yes: Transfer data no.
> Tried a couple of other apparently similar cables from my electrical wires box, but no luck. It would still charge, but would not recognise the device. Downloaded the latest software from Garmin, but would still only charge.
> Discovered by accident that my TomTom satnav had a similar cable. Tried that and lo and behold Garmin will now transfer data.


My cousin gave me his old Edge 500 and I had the same problem with one cable. A new cable sorted it out.

I have since found that the connection has become a bit unreliable. Often when I plug the cable in to recharge the device I get a beeping noise after a minute or two and a message flashes up saying that power has been lost. A bodge fix for that has been to use an elastic band to pull the plug tight against the socket so it can't wiggle loose.

I still haven't managed to get the Edge 500 to navigate courses reliably. I have tried all of the potential fixes that I found online (> a minimum distance between route points and < a maximum distance; splitting longer courses (routes) into shorter segments; zooming out to a broader view; reverting to earlier versions of firmware...). They made some improvement but the navigation line on the device's screen would still occasionally disappear and an 'off course' message appear. On long courses the 500 sometimes just froze. These days I just use my old Etrex for navigation and keep the 500 for ride stats.

The Etrex has been extremely reliable for 13 years. The one thing that did seriously confuse it was to set off on a long ride before it had locked on to the satellite signals whereupon it got my position wrong by tens of kms. That time I stopped and restarted the device. Once it had a good lock I had no further problems. After that, I always waited for a signal lock before starting to move.


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## ianrauk (25 Apr 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I still haven't managed to get the Edge 500 to navigate courses reliably. I have tried all of the potential fixes that I found online (> a minimum distance between route points and < a maximum distance; splitting longer courses (routes) into shorter segments; zooming out to a broader view; reverting to earlier versions of firmware...). They made some improvement but the navigation line on the device's screen would still occasionally disappear and an 'off course' message appear. On long courses the 500 sometimes just froze. These days I just use my old Etrex for navigation and keep the 500 for ride stats.



The 500 was well known for its navigation problems with the mapping/routing/breadcrumb trial. There were a good few threads on the Garmin forum about the routing and the fact Garmin never issued a fix for the bug. In the end I gave up on the 500, sold it and went back to the far more reliable 200 which has never let me down with the routing.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Apr 2019)

Problems with mapping on Etrex models are often related to a poorly seated SD card which is easy to disturb and slightly dislodge when changing batteries with gloves on in the dark/cold/rain.


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## GrumpyGregry (25 Apr 2019)

[Slighlty tongue in cheek] After various zip-tied and Velcro-ed Anker external battery bodges I finally solved the problem of (relatively) short battery life on my Edge Touring by...

...going back to using my Etrex 20.


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## Blue Hills (25 Apr 2019)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Problems with mapping on Etrex models are often related to a poorly seated SD card which is easy to disturb and slightly dislodge when changing batteries with gloves on in the dark/cold/rain.


True.

It's also quite easy to actually lose the SD card in the street when changing batteries  - that's why my (generally wonderful) Etrex 20 has a small bit of duct tape across the card holder.


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## ianrauk (25 Apr 2019)

GrumpyGregry said:


> [Slighlty tongue in cheek] After various zip-tied and Velcro-ed Anker external battery bodges I finally solved the problem of (relatively) short battery life on my Edge Touring by...
> 
> ...going back to using my Etrex 20.



Yet my Garmin Edge Touring battery life is excellent. It will last a good 12 hours and more.
Garmins are funny things.


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## Crackle (25 Apr 2019)

GrumpyGregry said:


> [Slighlty tongue in cheek] After various zip-tied and Velcro-ed Anker external battery bodges I finally solved the problem of (relatively) short battery life on my Edge Touring by...
> 
> ...going back to using my Etrex 20.


I would consider replacing the battery or sending it to someone who advertises they can do it. I did the battery in my fr305 which was down to lasting 20 minutes. Back up to 10hrs after replacement. In case you haven't, I would look at the display settings, brightness has a massive effect on life.


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## Blue Hills (25 Apr 2019)

Crackle said:


> I would consider replacing the battery or sending it to someone who advertises they can do it. I did the battery in my fr305 which was down to lasting 20 minutes. Back up to 10hrs after replacement. In case you haven't, I would look at the display settings, brightness has a massive effect on life.


out of interest how much did it cost to replace the battery?


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## Crackle (25 Apr 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> out of interest how much did it cost to replace the battery?


The one I chose was about £8. It's considerably more difficult to do than on any of the Edge computers. The short thread about it is here..

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/garmin-battery-replacement.141727/


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## ColinJ (25 Apr 2019)

ianrauk said:


> The 500 was well known for its navigation problems with the mapping/routing/breadcrumb trial. There were a good few threads on the Garmin forum about the routing and the fact Garmin never issued a fix for the bug. In the end I gave up on the 500, sold it and went back to the far more reliable 200 which has never let me down with the routing.


I know a few people who use a 200 and they have no problems either.

It seemed strange that Garmin had been quite capable of designing some reliable GPS products but others have been notoriously unreliable. Somebody suggested to me that it was because of business takeovers/mergers resulting in different electronic engineers coming in and others leaving the company. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Apr 2019)

ianrauk said:


> Yet my Garmin Edge Touring battery life is excellent. It will last a good 12 hours and more.
> Garmins are funny things.


Mine was pre-loved when I got it from a well known auction site and has never made it to double figures, gives up after seven or so. Off to read @Crackle 's thread as an alternative to working.


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## GrumpyGregry (26 Apr 2019)

ColinJ said:


> I know a few people who use a 200 and they have no problems either.
> 
> It seemed strange that Garmin had been quite capable of designing some reliable GPS products but others have been notoriously unreliable. Somebody suggested to me that it was because of business takeovers/mergers resulting in different electronic engineers coming in and others leaving the company. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it.


Parallel software development teams. Their tin is generally pretty good, the code, less so.


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## fossyant (26 Apr 2019)

200 and 705 here - no issues other than I keep misplacing my 705 - it has legs.


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2019)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Parallel software development teams. Their tin is generally pretty good, the code, less so.


Actually, yes, it might have been different software teams rather than different hardware ones! Mind you, management should have taken charge and enforced standards. It is crazy how long serious bugs on certain models have remained unfixed.


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## fossyant (26 Apr 2019)

The last but one update on the 705 very much nearly borked them - the GPS went right off. Instructions were out straight away to roll it back a version, then a new update was released. That was the last update.


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## Howyadoinoutthere (26 Apr 2019)

Lpoolck said:


> My Edge 1000 at random times will display "touchscreen locked" and I am unable to do anything unless I stop my ride and start it again. Does anyone know how to disable the touchscreen lock feature?



When you press and hold the button on the left hand side to shut the Edge 1000 down what message shows? I have "Lock Screen" at the top and at the bottom:
Power Options
Sleep
Power Off

I see that if you press Lock Screen it changes to Unlock Screen.
I don't know if it helps but may be worth checking.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Apr 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Actually, yes, it might have been different software teams rather than different hardware ones! Mind you, management should have taken charge and enforced standards. It is crazy how long serious bugs on certain models have remained unfixed.



It is often management who cause the problems trying to hit deadlines with no respect for the estimates or realities they are given by the lead engineers. Cost and time overriding quality. You can blame Star Trek for this, Scotty saying she'll never make it, Kirk overruling and everything turning out alright.


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## ColinJ (26 Apr 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> It is often management who cause the problems trying to hit deadlines with no respect for the estimates or realities they are given by the lead engineers. Cost and time overriding quality. You can blame Star Trek for this, Scotty saying she'll never make it, Kirk overruling and everything turning out alright.


Indeed! 

Or even the simple Jean-Luc Picard version ...


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## Levo-Lon (26 Apr 2019)

The Division2... Tough game.... Top tip kill everyone


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## andrew_s (30 Apr 2019)

Mile195 said:


> Garmin Edge 1000: the "2019 bug". Fixing files so Strava will accept them:
> This is where rides are marked with a date, often in April 2019, which causes the strava upload to fail. Garmin will almost certainly never fix this problem


I guess this is a Strava problem rather than a Garmin problem.

As I understand it, the April 2019 problem is that GPS works on week numbers, and when the date got to the end of week 1023, on April 6th, the next week was week 0. If you have a file for week 1022, before the change over, and load it to Strava after the changeover, the week number can be interpreted as giving a date in 2039, which causes the file to be rejected.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/12/current_gps_epoch_ends/

GPX files will be OK - they hold the date as text, like "2019-04-12T08:13:45Z".


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## GrumpyGregry (30 Apr 2019)

ColinJ said:


> Actually, yes, it might have been different software teams rather than different hardware ones! Mind you, management should have taken charge and enforced standards. It is crazy how long serious bugs on certain models have remained unfixed.


The latest model is delivered to a launch date determined by sales and marketing not by the engineering teams
Once launched the product is, by definition, already obsolete as the engineering teams are already 3/4 through the build process for its replacement and successor.
Why bother fixing the bugs in the code in the now launched but obsolete current product when the new launch date of the new one, as determined by sales and marketing not by the engineering teams, is just around the corner and sheeple will just buy the latest one to work around the bugs in the current one anyway?

Product development by the customer. It's the 21st C way.


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## yello (30 Apr 2019)

My old 305 is still in use. It's battery life is probably not as good as new but it more than suffices for my needs.

I have had to replace the rubber button covers as I'd worn them through (spares kindly provided by someone whose 305 had died) This involved prising the unit apart and was surprisingly straightforward, much like a battery replacement.


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## MrGrumpy (14 May 2019)

My Edge 810 now refuses to sync with my phone  Been working reasonably well up until recently. So I assume its an app update thats broke it ?? Really not sure I would buy another Garmin. Tempted now to try some other brands ? Suuntu or something.


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## Crackle (14 May 2019)

Uninstall and reinstall the app


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## MrGrumpy (17 May 2019)

Did that worked once and now it’s broke again. Had this before and it magically started working again. Might be time to jump brands


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## Apollonius (22 May 2019)

This is probably an unusual Garmin problem in that it was caused by the cat. Mrs A's Garmin is often left on a coffee table by a radiator that attracts our old ginger cat. Stretching out for maximum warmth, he pushed said Edge 200 into the bin below which was thrown out before anyone noticed. I tried replacing it with the more recent 25 model, but this pegged out on a modest 50 mile ride (a slow one!) on Sunday, so "not good enough", I thought. Wish I still had the 200, said she. Mine lasted all day, even though it is at least 4 years old. Love it to bits. Simple, big numbers I can read without glasses. Does all I want to record my rides. No interest in navigating. I like being lost. 
So, try Ebay? I saw a Taiwanese Edge 200 being offered for £80 including an out-front mount. Worth a try? I think so. You have to set the language from Chinese to English, but that is simple enough. It paired up with my Connect account quite happily, so presumably legitimate. Quality seems to be as good as the original.


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## biggs682 (23 May 2019)

huwsparky said:


> Solved my Garmin issues with a hammer!



I feel like this about my virb original replaced under warranty now also only recording between 15 and 40 mins before going off .

Garmin offered to sell me another at a discounted price .... No thanks


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## Blue Hills (23 May 2019)

biggs682 said:


> I feel like this about my virb original replaced under warranty now also only recording between 15 and 40 mins before going off .


Built in battery?


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## biggs682 (23 May 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Built in battery?



Not built in , and loads of battery life left


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## MrGrumpy (24 May 2019)

Mine still borked via bluetooth. Connects to my phone no worries but will not sync a ride in the app. I have red exclamation mark in the device list. Connected but has an issue. Tech support helping me a wee bit just now but long time out of warranty. I might just chuck on the bay and look for an alternative. Quite fancy an all in one watch this time.


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## ColinJ (24 May 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> Quite fancy an all in one watch this time.


That is what @Sea of vapours has opted for. He seems to get on fine with his!


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## GrumpyGregry (24 May 2019)

MrGrumpy said:


> Quite fancy an all in one watch this time.


I like my Vivoactive3, does what I need it to do.


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## Blue Hills (24 May 2019)

no idea what that is - when I have a mo will google to see how that bit of kit puts a smile on your face


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