# Can't afford a Brompton ..



## cycle_bug (21 Aug 2016)

if you can't afford, or rather, can't justify a Brompton then what's a good sub£500 way of enjoying a folder and general cycling?

Then when I prove i stick it, save for a fancy Brompton

Seen Raleigh and Giant even do then at a much lower price but does cheap have to mean nasty?


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## shouldbeinbed (21 Aug 2016)

Dahon, Tern or if you have one close by look at Decathlon. Several of the others on the market appear to be rebadged Dahons. 

There is an active 2nd hand Brompton market at around the £500 point and if you wanted to upgrade later you're near as dammit going to get your money back


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## shouldbeinbed (21 Aug 2016)

As for justifying it. I was very sceptical of the charms of Brompton for a long while whilst riding other folders but when I needed truly compact folding for multi mode travel wirhout the occasional argument with a bus driver I took the plunge. As with the comments on your other thread, when you get to live and ride with them every day, you come to appreciate what a good machine they really are for riding and just damn good fun. They handle nippily but far better than you'd expect from the look or a quick test ride, load carrying and eating up miles exceeds expectations by a long way, mechanically they are very sound and once set up just keep going with minimal intervention. I've thinned my bikes out a lot recently, The Brompton is not going anywhere and is the bike I ride most and is the one I default to now. 
They get you on novelty and curiosity, they keep you with versatility, quality and a bloody big grin on your face.


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## Jimidh (21 Aug 2016)

I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Aug 2016)

I was in Decathlon last weekend and I took a look at their folders, which looked like remarkable value. http://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-847975-folding-bikes


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## Arellcat (21 Aug 2016)

Jimidh said:


> I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.



Piffle.

If you need to take a bike regularly on a rush hour train or bus, or if you don't have secure – or any – bike parking at your work, or if you're tight for space at home, a Brompton is the ideal solution. If you're looking to crank out a hundred miles every weekend, it probably isn't the bike for you.


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## shouldbeinbed (21 Aug 2016)

Jimidh said:


> I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.


What didn't you like about them when you owned one?


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## Fab Foodie (21 Aug 2016)

Jimidh said:


> I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.


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## Fab Foodie (21 Aug 2016)

shouldbeinbed said:


> Dahon, Tern or if you have one close by look at Decathlon. Several of the others on the market appear to be rebadged Dahons.
> 
> There is an active 2nd hand Brompton market at around the £500 point and if you wanted to upgrade later you're near as dammit going to get your money back


This. S/H Brommies hold their value well and are always in demand.


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## robgul (21 Aug 2016)

I have a Dahon (Dawes Ace badged, built by Dahon) for sale in your price range . . . 2014, top of the range, 20" wheel (better ride than a Brompton IMHO) dynamo lights, seatpost pump, immaculate, with carry bag etc - drop me a PM if interested and I can send pix.

... 

Rob


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## CopperBrompton (21 Aug 2016)

shouldbeinbed said:


> There is an active 2nd hand Brompton market at around the £500 point and if you wanted to upgrade later you're near as dammit going to get your money back



This every time. In the unlikely event you decide it isn't for you, you'll be able to sell for about the price you paid. In the meantime, you'll be enjoying the all-round best folding bike on the market.


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## cycle_bug (22 Aug 2016)

Looked at Dahon, can't make sense of their website, no idea of price or quality.. is it in any sort of order?! 

Also, since I started looking at Bromptons with excellent internal gears and dynamo lights I'm sort of trying to find a folder with those features (since retrofitting them might not work with all folding mechanisms


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## Kell (22 Aug 2016)

Are you anywhere near where you can hire a Brompton? 

I used one for a month to ensure I could live with it day-to-day. 

Plus you get back up to £100 of the hire cost if you go on to buy one (new).

https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/

As for the cost, it depends on how you justify it. I had three folding bikes before getting a Brompton and junked all three for zero cash. Admittedly, one of those was run over and bent out of shape, but I had two Dahons where the frame cracked. In total, I spent about £1500 on those, before then getting a Brompton. All of that cash is dead money now. Had I got a Brompton in the first place, then even seven/eight years' later, the bike would still be worth about 40-50% of its value.

Can yoiu get one on the ride to work scheme? You can save a lot doing it that way.


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## cycle_bug (22 Aug 2016)

Kell said:


> Are you anywhere near where you can hire a Brompton?
> 
> I used one for a month to ensure I could live with it day-to-day.
> 
> ...




How much does the cycle to work scheme get off it? Must look into that


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## Kell (22 Aug 2016)

Depends on your income, but it can be up to about 40%

https://www.evanscycles.com/ride-to-work/employee-benefits


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## John the Monkey (22 Aug 2016)

Jimidh said:


> I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.


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## Kell (22 Aug 2016)

PS - someone's sellign a Bike Friday...

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/bike-friday-pocket-crusoe-for-sale-£350.205898/


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## PoisonIvy (31 Aug 2016)

I got my Brompton on the Cycle to Work scheme and I adore it. The folded size and the fact that they hold their value swayed it for me. A monthly Oyster card worked out much more expensive than the £80 out of my paycheque, which was how I justified the cost.


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## Gixxerman (1 Sep 2016)

I have a Dahon Vybe C7A for my 2.5 mile each-way park-and-bike commute. I got it for the decent price of £299 from Halfrauds. It comes with full mudgaurds and a small backrack and has 7 speed Shimano derailleur gears and being ally weighs in at about 10.5kg. The build quality seems OK so far. I had to modify the front mudguard a bit to stop a rattle, but apart from that, it seems to be holding up ok. It does creak a bit when you are pushing hard up hills. The 20 inch wheels give a decent ride on the minefields that profess to be roads in Lincoln. Not the most compact of folds, but it fits in my boot ok. Gearing range is a little limited (top a bit too low, bottom not quite low enough), but that is what you expect from a folder. 18 mph is probably about top whack on the flat, unless your legs are capable of exceeding my maximum cadence of about 120rpm. Reach 30+ mph regularly down Lindum Hill and it seems to be stable enough at that speed.


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## Melvil (2 Sep 2016)

Jimidh said:


> I think that Bromptons are fcking awful bikes and can't believe that people think otherwise.



Need a bit more info?

If I had to choose to ride one of my bikes, yes I would ride my steel Reynolds 531 campag Athena road bike as it just fits me and goes like the clappers. But if I was going anywhere involving a holiday or public transport I would take the Brompton. It is also the only thing that I can store at work where any other bike would need to be left outside and get nicked. Very very practical. Overpriced? Yes. Too heavy? Sure. Hard to fix punctures? Absolutely. But even so I cannot think of a better folding bike.


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## Cycleops (9 Sep 2016)

Melvil said:


> But even so I cannot think of a better folding bike.



Perhaps that's why they have been such a sales success and nobody has taken their crown despite many imitators. I don't have one but maybe one day.


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## Brand X (2 Oct 2016)

I bought a Ridgeback Envoy last year for £130 in pretty well spotless condition, it's a re-badged Dahon. Bromptons really are the best, but they're wallet-bustingly expensive and I only use my folding bike occasionally.


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## Sandra6 (4 Oct 2016)

If you intend to fold the bike regularly and need to pick it up and get on a bus/train - or even fit it in the boot alongside other things - then you need a brompton.
Nothing else folds as small, or as simply. 
I have a carrera transit which are currently £300 ish, that I quite like. It rides well, 3 gears is plenty and it folds small enough to fit in the boot. I wouldn't want to have to pick it up and carry it though.


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## Kell (4 Oct 2016)

I don't know about quickness on it's own. I could lift my old Dahon Matrix (with the hinge, not the lockjaw) off the train, unfold it in the air, and have it locked and ready to ride as the wheels touched down on the platform.

But it's the combination of small, simple, and quick that means the more I look at other options, the less I see something to tempt me away - more expensive or less expensive.


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## Ken Breeze (5 Oct 2016)

cycle_bug said:


> if you can't afford, or rather, can't justify a Brompton then what's a good sub£500 way of enjoying a folder and general cycling?
> 
> Then when I prove i stick it, save for a fancy Brompton
> 
> Seen Raleigh and Giant even do then at a much lower price but does cheap have to mean nasty?



Bromptons are fantastic bikes.......for what they're made for. The fold is a work of art and there's a typical slightly eccentric Britishness to them. Definitely a keeper. I've also had Dahons and Terns which in all honesty having 20 inch wheels perform better on the road, the Dahon was definitely lighter too..... Both of these have come and gone while the Brompton stays. There comes a time in life where quality engineering and a bit of quirky design far outweighs the latest technology and a bit of weight saving.


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## oldwheels (5 Oct 2016)

I have among other bikes a Brompton and a Bike Friday. Both are in use depending on need to fold quickly (Brompton) or for longer run with minimum fold the Bike Friday which does not really fold well quickly for public transport. Best used for back of car. Both seem to be made by slightly eccentric companies but never read much in the way of complaints unlike some other makes which do seem to generate some grief by breaking in bits.


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## jefmcg (5 Oct 2016)

oldwheels said:


> Bike Friday which does not really fold well quickly for public transport.


Depends on which model you get. 


View: https://youtu.be/fQscBxx7wLE


Though I think they've stopped making the tikit.


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## oldbadger (1 Nov 2016)

Melvil said:


> Need a bit more info?
> 
> If I had to choose to ride one of my bikes, yes I would ride my steel Reynolds 531 campag Athena road bike as it just fits me and goes like the clappers. But if I was going anywhere involving a holiday or public transport I would take the Brompton. It is also the only thing that I can store at work where any other bike would need to be left outside and get nicked. Very very practical. *Overpriced? Yes. Too heavy? Sure. Hard to fix punctures? Absolutely.* But even so I cannot think of a better folding bike.


 
I'm retired now, so don't travel the country with my folder any more, but for over ten years I trained and biked to training venues everywhere. I used a City Express, a 7 speed, ally, 16", mid folder which didn't take up much more space than a brompton. But punctures were no problem, and maybe less frequent because I could have 1.9" all-terrain tyres which probably handled bumps, sharps and ridges better. I never found out if I could take it on the London Underground because I cycled between main-line statrions so easily and quickly, so that's what I did. And the City Express, when unfolded, has a neat flat bar which I could sit on if all seats were taken!

It was a great folder, and I never felt the need to follow the favourite, but there was one aspect of the City Express which beat the Brompton....... it cost £169 with £10 for delivery. Now this feature removed any feelings of worry because I could lock it to a bike stand, go shopping (whatever) and forget it, because Bromprons might get nicked, but City Expresses don't because almost nobody knows about them.... no 'must have' aspect. And it was small enough to come with me into training and hotel rooms.

I changed it last year for a City Zoom, described in folder reviews as 'very odd', but this happens to ride beautifully and is better for me because I can bend the bottom bracket bar partly and reduce the bike's length by a couple of inches so that it fits in the plasti-bin outside my home. I chain bolted to thr bin's floor is its security.

Bromptons are without doubt the A+ folder but they don't do well on unmade or rough roads, or soft ground, have increased security risk because of their popularity and cost more than five (or more!) of my folder.

Call me cheapskate if you like!


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## Fab Foodie (1 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> I'm retired now, so don't travel the country with my folder any more, but for over ten years I trained and biked to training venues everywhere. I used a City Express, a 7 speed, ally, 16", mid folder which didn't take up much more space than a brompton. But punctures were no problem, and maybe less frequent because I could have 1.9" all-terrain tyres which probably handled bumps, sharps and ridges better. I never found out if I could take it on the London Underground because I cycled between main-line statrions so easily and quickly, so that's what I did. And the City Express, when unfolded, has a neat flat bar which I could sit on if all seats were taken!
> 
> It was a great folder, and I never felt the need to follow the favourite, but there was one aspect of the City Express which beat the Brompton....... it cost £169 with £10 for delivery. Now this feature removed any feelings of worry because I could lock it to a bike stand, go shopping (whatever) and forget it, because Bromprons might get nicked, but City Expresses don't because almost nobody knows about them.... no 'must have' aspect. And it was small enough to come with me into training and hotel rooms.
> 
> ...


OK, you're a cheapskate!


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## Oxo (1 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> Call me cheapskate if you like!



Go on then.......cheapskate.


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## srw (1 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> Bromptons are without doubt the A+ folder but they don't do well on unmade or rough roads


Really? I find a Brompton much easier on rough or unmade roads than any road bike. And you're wrong about security, too - I've been riding Bromptons for 20 years and have never, ever locked one up.


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## srw (1 Nov 2016)

[QUOTE 4536892, member: 45"]If I were to arrange a CC ride I think it would be fair to you to start close to your place of work. Give me your work address and I'll see what I can do...[/QUOTE]
Too far from Somerset - and both offices have decent security arrangements.


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## Melvil (1 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> I'm retired now, so don't travel the country with my folder any more, but for over ten years I trained and biked to training venues everywhere. I used a City Express, a 7 speed, ally, 16", mid folder which didn't take up much more space than a brompton. But punctures were no problem, and maybe less frequent because I could have 1.9" all-terrain tyres which probably handled bumps, sharps and ridges better. I never found out if I could take it on the London Underground because I cycled between main-line statrions so easily and quickly, so that's what I did. And the City Express, when unfolded, has a neat flat bar which I could sit on if all seats were taken!
> 
> It was a great folder, and I never felt the need to follow the favourite, but there was one aspect of the City Express which beat the Brompton....... it cost £169 with £10 for delivery. Now this feature removed any feelings of worry because I could lock it to a bike stand, go shopping (whatever) and forget it, because Bromprons might get nicked, but City Expresses don't because almost nobody knows about them.... no 'must have' aspect. And it was small enough to come with me into training and hotel rooms.
> 
> ...



The beauty of bikes (and lots of other things too) is in the diversity of them. What fits and is good for one person is bad for another and vice versa. Your bike sounds fab - for you. I'm lazy, I must admit, and I could afford a Brompton, so I bought one. I don't care that it costs loads, only that it works. It works - for me. 

Vive la velo!


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## dim (1 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Really? I find a Brompton much easier on rough or unmade roads than any road bike. And you're wrong about security, too - I've been riding Bromptons for 20 years and have never, ever locked one up.



I bought my teenage daughter a Brompton a few years ago .... I bought it 2nd hand, but it was in mint condition, and I paid £650 for it

She used it for a few months, then one day she decided to stop off at Tesco and quickly run in to get a bottle of water. She never had her lock with her and left the bike close to the main door. She was in and out of Tesco in a flash (perhaps 3 min max, as she ppaid for the water at the cigarette conter)

Bike was gone .... CCTV showed a guy wearing a hoodie casually getting on the bike and cycling away. The guy was never caught, and that was the end of that bike


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## srw (1 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> I bought my teenage daughter a Brompton a few years ago .... I bought it 2nd hand, but it was in mint condition, and I paid £650 for it
> 
> She used it for a few months, then one day she decided to stop off at Tesco and quickly run in to get a bottle of water. She never had her lock with her and left the bike close to the main door. She was in and out of Tesco in a flash (perhaps 3 min max, as she ppaid for the water at the cigarette conter)
> 
> Bike was gone .... CCTV showed a guy wearing a hoodie casually getting on the bike and cycling away. The guy was never caught, and that was the end of that bike


That's a careless teenager, not a fault with the bike. Bromptons fit very neatly into a supermarket trolley, or you can just trundle them through the shop.


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## srw (1 Nov 2016)

User said:


> I saw one locked up on the street today. I was struck by how uncommon a sight it is.


There are two - one lime green and one black - which are often locked up in our Guildford bike sheds. Beats me why anyone would do that outside an office which is pretty secure and, although not palatial is also not miserly for space.


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## oldbadger (1 Nov 2016)

Melvil said:


> The beauty of bikes (and lots of other things too) is in the diversity of them. What fits and is good for one person is bad for another and vice versa. Your bike sounds fab - for you. I'm lazy, I must admit, and I could afford a Brompton, so I bought one. I don't care that it costs loads, only that it works. It works - for me.
> 
> Vive la velo!


Fair enough...... and it does seem that amongst the membership of this forum that folder-riders are heavily, massively, overwhelmingly in favour of ............. Bromptons!


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## oldbadger (1 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Really? I find a Brompton much easier on rough or unmade roads than any road bike. And you're wrong about security, too - I've been riding Bromptons for 20 years and have never, ever locked one up.


 ....but many other folders can be fitted with larger, wider, fatter tyres which cope with bad surfaces more easily. I don't think that Bromprons can........ just sayin'........
It's good to hear that you've never had to lock up your bike, presumably because you've never left your bike, but if a survey was taken among Brompron owners to discover their security arrangements and choices about leaving Bromptons on, say, cycle stands, or trying to wheel/carry them around various shops, etc.... who knows, you might be surprised to find yourself in a minority?


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## TheDoctor (2 Nov 2016)

dim said:


> I bought my teenage daughter a Brompton a few years ago .... I bought it 2nd hand, but it was in mint condition, and I paid £650 for it
> 
> She used it for a few months, then one day she decided to stop off at Tesco and quickly run in to get a bottle of water. She never had her lock with her and left the bike close to the main door. She was in and out of Tesco in a flash (perhaps 3 min max, as she ppaid for the water at the cigarette conter)
> 
> Bike was gone .... CCTV showed a guy wearing a hoodie casually getting on the bike and cycling away. The guy was never caught, and that was the end of that bike


So...unlocked bike gets nicked? Is that your post?


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## Pale Rider (2 Nov 2016)

One of the many strengths of the Brompton is it's possible to get full use from it without having to lock and leave it.

Apart from the ease and compact nature of the fold, I found I could wheel it into places in which the staff probably wouldn't have been so keen on me taking an ordinary bike.

Riding something that looks like a clown bike has its advantages.


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## Fab Foodie (2 Nov 2016)

Bicyclist said:


> Go on then.......cheapskate.


TMN to me!


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## srw (2 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> if a survey was taken among Brompron owners to discover their security arrangements and choices about leaving Bromptons on, say, cycle stands, or trying to wheel/carry them around various shops, etc.... who knows, you might be surprised to find yourself in a minority?


Take a search on this forum. You'll discover that, if we're a representative sample, I'm firmly in the majority. There was, for a while, a thread about "places you can take your Brompton into" - until it fizzled out because the answer was "just about everywhere".


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> So...unlocked bike gets nicked? Is that your post?


 Not bad...... 7/10 
Unlocked bikes do get nicked. But this thread is all about 'Not being able to afford a Brompton' and one tiny aspect of that is that some folks might not be able to 'risk a Brompton'. A rider who is visting many premises in one journey might not want to fold their bike and take it into premises. Some premises will not want folded bikes... any folded bikes, brought inside. A Bromptron might be worth, say, £200 to a thief, whereas another, lighter, slightly more bulky folder might only be worth £50. Which of those two bikes, wired to a rail, do you think a thief might use cutters on first?
And so, apart from riding on rough surfaces, or the price, or the security risk, some people might not be able to choose a Brompton.
Of course, that equation might never even arise if a buyer simply likes another folder better, and since there are hundreds of folders out there, all being sold, then that must be a factor?


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Take a search on this forum. You'll discover that, if we're a representative sample, I'm firmly in the majority. There was, for a while, a thread about "places you can take your Brompton into" - until it fizzled out because the answer was "just about everywhere".


 
So, let me get this absolutekly clear: neither you nor the majority of Brompton owners on this forum have any locks, bolts, bars, chains or any other security equipment to protect their folders, nor need they particularly bother with risk-transference services with regard to bike theft. Correct?

Well, that's strange, because out there in the BWW I often see a couple of Bromptons secured to bike-frames, the same two bikes I expect, but that's the only two that I notice in our high street.


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## Brand X (2 Nov 2016)

OP hasn't replied since August.


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## Cycleops (2 Nov 2016)

....and hasn't posted since September. Another drive by poster? Who knows, but it hasn't stopped us having a bit of knock around fun.


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## Cycleops (2 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Correct, to the extent that my front door is not a bike specific security device.









But it could be.


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Correct, to the extent that my front door is not a bike specific security device.


 Yeah.... but what about everybody else's front doors? 
..only askin'....


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

Cycleops said:


> View attachment 149981
> 
> 
> But it could be.


 A neighbour has got several of those 'hangers' along the wall of his garage, and each one hangs a different kind of bike. Amazing! They all look very advanced to me, but when I mentionred this he replied that he keeps the good ones in the house. His lovely sports car is exiled to the driveway.


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

Brand X said:


> OP hasn't replied since August.


The OP probably found a delightful City Express for just over £150, and is pedalling around merrily at this very minute, wondering what all the fuss over Bromptons is about. Next week he'll put 2.25 deep tread tyres on it and go forth where Bromptons could never dare venture.


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## srw (2 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> So, let me get this absolutekly clear: neither you nor the majority of Brompton owners on this forum have any locks, bolts, bars, chains or any other security equipment to protect their folders, nor need they particularly bother with risk-transference services with regard to bike theft. Correct?
> 
> Well, that's strange, because out there in the BWW I often see a couple of Bromptons secured to bike-frames, the same two bikes I expect, but that's the only two that I notice in our high street.


You should go to London. Thousands of Bromptons being ridden and carried, almost none left locked on the street. I dare say that anecdotes gathered in the country's largest city are slightly more representative than anecdotes gathered in Badgerville.


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## TheDoctor (2 Nov 2016)

I leave mine locked outside shops and the like where I live. In London it doesn't leave my person.
And yes, you can take them round supermarkets but a folded Brommie doesn't leave much room in the trolley for shopping. .


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> You should go to London. Thousands of Bromptons being ridden and carried, almost none left locked on the street. I dare say that anecdotes gathered in the country's largest city are slightly more representative than anecdotes gathered in Badgerville.


 ......should go to London....... meh! I didn't cross London every day, but often crossed it twice a week, cycling between main-line stations. And 'yes', I saw lots of Bromptons amongst the London folder-cyclists.
Look, London is good for Bromptons. You can take 'em on the underground. London is mostly flat and London's streets are in moderately good nick. Bromptons do well in London, but so do many other makes. One thing I noticed (2003-2010) on trains in and out of London was that I saw more Dahons than any other folders. That might read like a compliment, but the backhander is that a noticeable % of Dahon owners moaned about failed frames, poor customer service and aftercare and a bad attitude from the importers.
See? I even talk to riders of other makes than my chosen one....  If anybody wants to get to know a bit about folders all they have to do is ride the trains and chat to the cyclists.

But........ Bromptons do not do well on rugged roads! I once had a Genie. You can spit if you like, but those fake Bromptons were a pretty close double and the early ones had hub gears (the later ones had derailleurs as I remember); I had so much trouble on our local private roads, but discovered that I could not fit deep tread and wide tyres, like most any other folder could have! It's no good..... if you can't ride with ease on local roads, tracks, byeways and seawalls, then you need to choose a bike that will!

As for your insistence that Bromptons carry their bikes everywhere, I can tell you that you won't be allowed to wander through all and any busy shops, or fast foods, museums, Harrods erc etrc clutching folded Bromptons. Who wants to carry their flippin' bike everywhere, anyway? I lock mine to convenient rails and posts wherever I go with a simple 3 digit security wire and have never had a problem. The only time I need to fold down handlebats and peddles is when I walk through boot fairs, or street markets, and my Zoom is a better bike for that...... you would love it! One little ride and I would have proselytised you!


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## oldbadger (2 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> I leave mine locked outside shops and the like where I live. In London it doesn't leave my person.


Fair enough. But that's a big problem, because it means that when in London you are in fact (quite reasonably)stressed over your bike's security. If..... just if.... you happened to like a much cheaper bike then much of that worry would leave you. So far I luckily have not lost a bike, and I would be upset if I did, but I could snap my fingers at the cost of replacement..... but a Brompton? 


> And yes, you can take them round supermarkets but a folded Brommie doesn't leave much room in the trolley for shopping. .


...and you get dirty wheels touching your quiches.... yuk!


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## TheDoctor (3 Nov 2016)

Quiche! How very dare you!! *shakes fist*
Everything in Tescburydi is wrapped in at least three layers of stuff anyway ...
And I once had a Brommie stolen in London. That's why I'm keen to avoid a repeat, even though it was insured. Can't see me needing to take it to London again.


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## TrishnBonnie (3 Nov 2016)

I thought you didn't need to carry a brompton as they can be partly folded and pushed along?


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## srw (3 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Not up flights of stairs.


We'll need to wait for the Brompton series reboot for a Brompton which can hover for that one.


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## oldbadger (3 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> Quiche! How very dare you!! *shakes fist*
> Everything in Tescburydi is wrapped in at least three layers of stuff anyway ...
> And I once had a Brommie stolen in London. That's why I'm keen to avoid a repeat, even though it was insured. Can't see me needing to take it to London again.


 
I would have been so upset, if, when far from home my folder had been stolen. And the messing about, calling Police, CAD numbers, Insurance form filling, no folder-bike for a while, feelings of personal loss, etc etc.
I wouldn't mind getting a cheap-day ticket and returning to London to cycle all over the place. But I wouldn't take my Zoom. I would take my folding trekking bike because I could travel further, faster see more, and worry even less because it's even less expensive than a Zoom.

Oh.... yes...... I've got two folders, but I'll leave the identity of the other one out for now or this web site might overheat.,


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## oldbadger (3 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Not up flights of stairs.


 ...nor down 'em.


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## jefmcg (3 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> ...and you get dirty wheels touching your quiches.... yuk!


You know they let alive, pooping humans sit in those trolleys?


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## TrishnBonnie (3 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> You know they let alive, pooping humans sit in those trolleys?


They don't there's signs on the trolley saying not to, Sainsburys definitely and others but they are ignored.


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## srw (3 Nov 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> They don't there's signs on the trolley saying not to, Sainsburys definitely and others but they are ignored.


Probably because infants in nappies can't read very well.


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## 12boy (3 Nov 2016)

I know Xootr Swifts are rare in the UK but they are excellent bikes in terms of riding and durability. They are on summer sale right now for 599.00 US and while there might be some shipping and import costs, they are the stoutest aluminum folders I have seen. You might check them out if you want a serious contender that is not a dahon/tern. They do not fold as small but they fold as fast as you can pop 2 QRs and pull a seat post. They can be taken down to a packable size in about 10 minutes for airline travel. I think of mine as more like a poor man's Moulton and have been very satisfied with it. I still use my Brompton a lot, especially as it has fenders and can carry a lot more, especially with the shopping bag and the front luggage mount..


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## TrishnBonnie (3 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Probably because infants in nappies can't read very well.


It's toddlers and older that are put in the main part of the trolley by their parents I meant rather than the baby in the seat at the front. 

Could always put a Brompton in a bag before putting it in the trolley. If I did that with my folder wouldn't fit any shopping in


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## oldbadger (3 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> You know they let alive, pooping humans sit in those trolleys?


 So you don't ever use foodmarket trolleys then?
I mean, think of all that pooooo touching your selections!
I wonder how you do a weekly shop?
Or do you just put your folder in the trolley and get shopping anyway?
And think of those dogs which go round the shop with their owners..... what do they do? 

Bottom line is, bike wheels (and bikes!) are dirty and foodmarkets would be wise to ban 'em, whilst babies and certain dogs will not be left outside, so these cases we tend to accept and respect.


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## srw (3 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> So you don't ever use foodmarket trolleys then?
> I mean, think of all that pooooo touching your selections!
> I wonder how you do a weekly shop?
> Or do you just put your folder in the trolley and get shopping anyway?
> ...



Shoes! Dirty things, shoes. You don't know where they've been, so everyone should be made to take their shoes off. And hands! Nasty, filthy, things, used for all sorts of muckily intimate tasks. Cut them off. Or at least provide mandatory gloves. Sneezing! Spreads germs like mad, even if covered by a handkerchief. Hankies! Germ-rags more like
Ban'em!


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## oldbadger (3 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Shoes! Dirty things, shoes. You don't know where they've been, so everyone should be made to take their shoes off. And hands! Nasty, filthy, things, used for all sorts of muckily intimate tasks. Cut them off. Or at least provide mandatory gloves. Sneezing! Spreads germs like mad, even if covered by a handkerchief. Hankies! Germ-rags more like
> Ban'em!


It's not down to us, but retailers. True?
Harrods probably won't let a foldup in, they won't let you wear a rucksack in their store, and that's because certain items increase the risk of breakages.
Whatever, if a retailer does not want a particular item in the store then it's banned (subject to the Equality Act 2010), and no reason even needs to be given.

You don't want to struggle home, balancing chickens and loaves on your head....go shopping in your nice warm car!


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## TrishnBonnie (3 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> You don't want to struggle home, balancing chickens and loaves on your head....go shopping in your nice warm car!


No car thankfully but I carry shopping in baskets front and rear on a full size bike, or a rucksack on the folder


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## srw (3 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> Harrods probably won't let a foldup in


Bzztt!

Not only are they on the Brompton Road, they're absolutely _fine_ with the bikes.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?...5ivqoip5g50&topic=67927.msg1555072#msg1555072

They've even been known to _sell_ them.
http://www.harrods.com/style-insider/news/aw15/the-ultimate-gifts


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## oldbadger (4 Nov 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> No car thankfully but I carry shopping in baskets front and rear on a full size bike, or a rucksack on the folder


Great! Absolutely brilliant! 
A friend has recently sold his car and invested in a bicycle trolley, and it's changed his life.... and he feels even more fit than before.... 
I took my car off the road this last summer, and cycle much more. But that is a bit of a cop out because my wife keeps hers and I can drive it as well. But I would be happy to dump that car as well.


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## oldbadger (4 Nov 2016)

srw said:


> Bzztt!
> 
> Not only are they on the Brompton Road, they're absolutely _fine_ with the bikes.
> 
> ...


 ...he was on business... might make a difference. Back Door? Yes.... they searched his rucksack, probably as he left, and that would never happen on a Public sales floor.
Harrods will make you remove (and carry) a rucksack, because they swipe displays as a person turns, and I suspect that they won't want any folders being carted, wheeled or carried around their sales floors.
Either way, apart from some Brompton owners, who wants to have to lug their folder around shops or other buildings? Most other owners just secure them and walk inside without all that clutter.
And as already mentioned, the underground will take small bagged folders, but most riders ride, and riding through, across and round London is one of the best journeys in Britain. 

Another point.... another member has explained that having lost his brompton to theft, that he would not bring another to London again. He was insured, but that never took away the feeling of loss and present insecurity in connection with leaving a bike in London. It's rather like business people who own beautiful watches but would never consider wearing them whilst walking London streets.
If a (much) less expensive folder can offer a good ride, and significantly reduce risks because of its lower value, and this could restore feelings of safety/security for an owner, and decrease anxiety when the bike is locked and left, then..... yeah, it can make sense for some folks.


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## Kell (4 Nov 2016)

I think the point is getting a bit laboured now about the value of a bike to a thief. Of course there will be some that target specific brands or models because of the value, but most will literally nick anything if they can get it off the rack. Obviously Bromptons have a higher retail value, but the majority of people I speak to about my bike have no idea that it cost anything like as much as it did.

My big worry was reading about people targetting riders while on the bike. As most Bromptons aren't left anywhere to nick them, then the only option is to get the bike while it's being ridden.


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## oldbadger (5 Nov 2016)

User said:


> Any business that doesn't allow me in with my Brompton doesn't need my business.


 Don't think of it so much as witholding a bit of profit from a business, but rather denying yourself yet another lump of freedom to go where others please. 
Ewwww..... so contentious!


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## oldbadger (5 Nov 2016)

User said:


> If it is all the same to you, I will think as I choose. Thanx.


 I somehow never doubted that you would!


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## TheDoctor (5 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> another member has explained that having lost his brompton to theft, that he would not bring another to London again. He was insured, but that never took away the feeling of loss and present insecurity in connection with leaving a bike in London. It's rather like business people who own beautiful watches but would never consider wearing them whilst walking London streets.


That's not what I said at all.
I don't have a need to bring a Brompton to London now, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
I just wouldn't leave it locked up on the street for very long. And it wasn't the feeling of loss or insecurity ( I have plenty of other things to feel insecure about!), just the pain-in-the-arse that is dealing with insurance companies and their back-handing sidekicks who supply the replacement bikes, if and when they can be bothered. Wheelies, I'm looking at you.


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## oldbadger (6 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> That's not what I said at all.
> I don't have a need to bring a Brompton to London now, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
> I just wouldn't leave it locked up on the street for very long.



....... *shrugs shoulders* ?


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## jefmcg (7 Nov 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> They don't there's signs on the trolley saying not to, Sainsburys definitely and others but they are ignored.


The supermarket near me still has child seats in their trolleys, and the kids using them a usually still in nappies. Have they stopped using those trolleys at Sainsburys?


oldbadger said:


> I wonder how you do a weekly shop?


I assume that the trolleys are dirty. Everything I buy at the supermarket is wrapped. I certainly wouldn't put an unwrapped loaf of bread in a trolley and assume it was still safe to eat. Produce is usually unwrapped, but I wash that. They grow them in actual dirt! 


oldbadger said:


> Bottom line is, bike wheels (and bikes!) are dirty and foodmarkets would be wise to ban 'em, whilst babies and certain dogs will not be left outside, so these cases we tend to accept and respect.


Um, no supermarket I use has dogs walking around in it. 

Generally - back to locking a folder - I generally didn't take a lock with me because I practically never left it anywhere so why carry an extra kilo or 2 all the time for no reasons. I also didn't actually own a lock, and it made no sense to spend £40 or more for something I practically never needed and probably wouldn't have with me when I did need it. And I'd need a cable as well to secure the saddle.

I certainly wouldn't lock up in bike in central London with a "wire". They'll steal anything, even with no actual value, if you let them.


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## TrishnBonnie (7 Nov 2016)

TrishnBonnie said:


> It's toddlers and older that are put in the main part of the trolley by their parents I meant rather than the baby in the seat at the front.
> 
> Could always put a Brompton in a bag before putting it in the trolley. If I did that with my folder wouldn't fit any shopping in


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## SavageHoutkop (7 Nov 2016)

Only lock I ever carried on the Brompton was a cheap cable lock for locking when I was doing a weekly long distance train trip, to prevent a thief nipping off the train with it at an intermediate station (luggage racks not entirely in line of sight). The rest of the time it stays with me. Haven't ever been refused entry anywhere with it.


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## TheDoctor (7 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> ....... *shrugs shoulders* ?


Well, aren't you the bundle of charm?
*ignores and moves on*


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## oldbadger (7 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Um, no supermarket I use has dogs walking around in it.


 Um.... yes it does, quitre regularly. You just haven't seen them yet.


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## oldbadger (7 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> The supermarket near me still has child seats in their trolleys, and the kids using them a usually still in nappies. Have they stopped using those trolleys at Sainsburys?


I still see child-seat trolleys at most supermarkets, but every large trolley has a swing-out seat for infants and juniors. I once saw a woman take a child's nappy off, look up and down the aisle, and then drop it on the floor and push it under a display. I was looking at produce on the aisle's end. The manager banned her from the store. Some people.....!



> I assume that the trolleys are dirty. Everything I buy at the supermarket is wrapped. I certainly wouldn't put an unwrapped loaf of bread in a trolley and assume it was still safe to eat. Produce is usually unwrapped, but I wash that. They grow them in actual dirt!


Sure.... manure even. But if a store employree should ever challenge a biker for wheeling, carrying or trolley a bike through trhe store it might be best to try some other approach.... 



> Um, no supermarket I use has dogs walking around in it.


I already answered this, but honestly, medical assistance, canine partner, hearing and guide dogs all need to be given access to any store; ion fact it is unlawful to refuse them entry.



> Generally - back to locking a folder - I generally didn't take a lock with me because I practically never left it anywhere so why carry an extra kilo or 2 all the time for no reasons. I also didn't actually own a lock, and it made no sense to spend £40 or more for something I practically never needed and probably wouldn't have with me when I did need it. And I'd need a cable as well to secure the saddle.


There aren't any rules.... we just make our decisions and take our chances. I don't transfer risk because I think that insurance premiums, claims, forms, delays, et al are a pain and I can afford to stand such a risk myself. I don't avoid the risk because I like biking and going out and the only way to avoid the risk is either to not have a bike or never to take it out . I do reduce the risk because I use a cheap 3 digit wire lock and my bike is very inexpensive, and finally, I do accept that there is a risk, but there's a risk every time I get out of the bath, or walk up steps..... living is risking, up to a point... ask any mountain biker! 



> I certainly wouldn't lock up in bike in central London with a "wire". They'll steal anything, even with no actual value, if you let them.


 I did lock my folder with a wire, outside Victoria Station, because I used to meet my daughter atr waggamamas for dinner once a week, and it's unreasonable to carry folders into such places. I never lost it.... so I was lucky, but I expect any scummy thioeves out there might have preferred some of the richer items. My daughter did have a very good bike, and she never lost hers, but she used U-locks, wires, chains...... took her ages to fix 'em all.


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## jefmcg (8 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> Sure.... manure even. But if a store employree should ever challenge a biker for wheeling, carrying or trolley a bike through trhe store it might be best to try some other approach....


Yeah, but they don't. And why should they? As we agree, supermarkets floors and trolleys are dirty, so an occasional brompton or mezzo isn't going to make a difference .

Generally supermarkets would welcome your custom, and work with you if they can. I've even used supermarkets with a road bike on a few occasions when travelling without a proper lock, either leaving it inside the front door, asking security to keep an eye on it, and once wheeling it up the aisle .


SavageHoutkop said:


> Only lock I ever carried on the Brompton was a cheap cable lock for locking when I was doing a weekly long distance train trip, to prevent a thief nipping off the train with it at an intermediate station (luggage racks not entirely in line of sight). The rest of the time it stays with me. Haven't ever been refused entry anywhere with it.


Yeah, I bought one of those after my first FNRttC, when I had to stay awake on the train home.


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## jefmcg (8 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> Sure.... manure even. But if a store employree should ever challenge a biker for wheeling, carrying or trolley a bike through trhe store it might be best to try some other approach....


Yeah, but they don't. And why should they? As we agree, supermarkets floors and trolleys are dirty, so an occasional brompton or mezzo isn't going to make a difference . 

Generally supermarkets would welcome your custom, and work with you if they can. I've even used supermarkets with a road bike on a few occasions when travelling without a proper lock, either leaving it inside the front door, asking security to keep an eye on it, and once wheeling it up the aisle . 




oldbadger said:


> I still see child-seat trolleys at most supermarkets, but every large trolley has a swing-out seat for infants and juniors. I once saw a woman take a child's nappy off, look up and down the aisle, and then drop it on the floor and push it under a display. I was looking at produce on the aisle's end. The manager banned her from the store. Some people.....!
> 
> 
> Sure.... manure even. But if a store employree should ever challenge a biker for wheeling, carrying or trolley a bike through trhe store it might be best to try some other approach....
> ...


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## oldbadger (8 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Yeah, but they don't. And why should they? As we agree, supermarkets floors and trolleys are dirty, so an occasional brompton or mezzo isn't going to make a difference .
> .


*Suzie Wilkes - Tried to take my bike into Tesco (late at... | Facebook*
https://www.facebook.com/*tesco*/posts/604013962991072
Tried to *take* my *bike into Tesco* (late at night when hardly any *customers* were in) 
and the security guard shouted that i wasn't allowed my *bike* in, to...
*Tesco backs down after cyclist told he couldn't take Brompton into ...*
road.cc/.../181328-*tesco*-backs-down-after-cyclist-told-he-*could*nt-*take*-brompton-store
4 Mar 2016 *...* Supermarket giant *Tesco* has said that Brompton folding *bikes* are welcome in its 
... deleted, a *customer* service representative told him: "I'm sorry about this. ... @
*Tesco* (link is external) why *does* it being a method of *transport* ...
*Brompton cyclist kicked out of Tesco again – a week after being told ...*
road.cc/.../182345-brompton-cyclist-kicked-out-*tesco*-again-–-week-after-being-told-folding-*bikes*
12 Mar 2016 *...* There is no policy on Brompton *bikes* & welcome *customers* who use them. ... “I 
went in yesterday with my Brompton, half folded – so it *can* be .... *Take* my road 
*bike into* either of my two local Co Op stores on my daily commute ...
It's not your call, it's a retailer's ........
Some will let you in if you ask, but if a retailer refuses, that's it.


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## Pale Rider (8 Nov 2016)

Me and @StuAff took our full size bikes into the lobby of Tesco on the Isle of Wight at about 3am.

We also had very oily hands due to a mechanical.

No bother from the staff, although I suppose they might have been less welcoming if the store had been busy.


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## Fab Foodie (8 Nov 2016)

@oldbadger What's your agenda?


----------



## Pale Rider (8 Nov 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @oldbadger What's your agenda?



I dunno, but I suspect it's a long one.


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## TheDoctor (8 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> *Suzie Wilkes - Tried to take my bike into Tesco (late at... | Facebook*
> https://www.facebook.com/*tesco*/posts/604013962991072
> Tried to *take* my *bike into Tesco* (late at night when hardly any *customers* were in)
> and the security guard shouted that i wasn't allowed my *bike* in, to...
> ...



FFS! If you've got a point can you kindly make the bugger?
If not, can we move on, because I for one am getting bored with this.


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## oldbadger (8 Nov 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> @oldbadger What's your agenda?


 My agenda?
This thread is titled 'Can't afford a Brompton'.
So a good approach to that title might include steering away from Bromptons (which can't be afforded) to other less expensive makes. See? Get it?
It might help to show that in some areas that Bromptons aren't necessarily the ideal machine.
But then folks come along.... asking, 'What's your agenda?'
So we do our best to explain........ 
By the way....... 'What's your agenda?'


----------



## oldbadger (8 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> FFS! If you've got a point can you kindly make the bugger?
> If not, can we move on, because I for one am getting bored with this.


 OK........ Where would you like to move on to....... ? But remember, this thread is all about getting a folder which doesn't cost Brompton prices.
Ok....... your move. What advice have you got?


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Nov 2016)

*mod*

If this thread is to remain open it will do so without petty bickering and cut and paste Google searches which do not appear to provide alternatives to Bromptons. 

Smileys also do not reduce the implied or perceived rudeness of the preceeding words either. 

I am mindful on the way this thread is being derailed into a 'look you can't take a Bromptons here either' vs 'yes you can' session, that Cycle Bug hasn't been seen on CC since 21st September so whatever benefit this thread may have been to them has likely passed now.


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## TheDoctor (8 Nov 2016)

If you're after advice on cheaper folders, then, as ever, if you want the best value go to Decathlon.
Their folding bikes are pretty good for the price.
They are not, however, as good as a Brompton. They don't fold as small or as quickly.
Tern / DaHon (available under various guises) are not bad, but I'd be concerned about reliability. See various CC threads for problems people have had.
Mezzo and Birdy bikes have a dedicated following, and can be found secondhand.
The A-Bike is utterly horrid. Don't go there.


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Nov 2016)

I'm a dedicated Birdyista, my Brompton has gone to a new home in preference for my Birdy, but cheap new they aren't and TBH second hand prices I see are not far off 2nd hand Bromptons, albeit the depreciation for the Birdy has been steeper from their relative starting price.

I didn't really like the flimsy feel of my old Dahon, although it was an older model and newer are better.

I am a big fan of Decathlon kit and was very interested in the Tilt when they initially came out but the hinge flex when I test rode a few was alarming and supply seemed very hit and miss. The range appears now to have thinned out and is less visible in store.

The thing with folders is to start with your needs and work backwards from there, including consideration of cost, remembering that cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to best value for your particular requirement from the bike. Also folders tend to be longer term acquisitions than e.g. road or mountain bike and so while the initial outlay may look pretty steep, the year on year cost becomes quite small over the life of the bike.


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## The Jogger (8 Nov 2016)

As part of my retirement package I get free travel on any transport run by tfl , as part of my retirement I choose to ride my Brompton in London instead........


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## shouldbeinbed (8 Nov 2016)

The Jogger said:


> As part of my retirement package I get free travel on any transport run by tfl , as part of my retirement I choose to ride my Brompton in London instead........


That was kind of my justification too, I know you are riding in preference to PT. My Birdy was expensively Kaput as was my knee and I was unsure day to day if having ridden in to work or town if I'd be able to ride home or if I'd need to hop (sometimes literally) on the Metrolink, which had newly opened to Oldham. With a C2W and multi modal near necessity, the Brompton was the most practical & economic option at that time.

Transport for Greater Manchester also specify Bromptons as the only bike they permit, but as long as it's a small enough fold, Birdy is, I've not had a problem with TfGM staff.


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## e-rider (9 Nov 2016)

who can afford a Brompton?


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## Fab Foodie (9 Nov 2016)

oldbadger said:


> My agenda?
> This thread is titled 'Can't afford a Brompton'.
> So a good approach to that title might include steering away from Bromptons (which can't be afforded) to other less expensive makes. See? Get it?
> It might help to show that in some areas that Bromptons aren't necessarily the ideal machine.
> ...


Anti zealot it would seem....


----------



## TheDoctor (11 Nov 2016)

User13710 said:


> Or a supermarket trolley troll?



FTFY


----------



## shouldbeinbed (11 Nov 2016)

*mod again*

Enough with the off topic niggling. 

Foldy bikes please. *end mod*


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## Fab Foodie (12 Nov 2016)

e-rider said:


> who can afford a Brompton?


Clearly many people.
Affordability is a relative thing. The cost of a new Brompton is equal ro a basic carbon road bike and plenty people buy those. Whilst a Brompton is slower its a far more useful purchase.


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## Kell (12 Nov 2016)

e-rider said:


> who can afford a Brompton?



Like all things in life, it depends on how useful it is compared to the alternatives. I live about 30 miles outside of London, and about 3 miles from the train station my end. So my journey involves cycling to the station, getting the train and then cycling the other end. 

Without my bike, I'd need to drive to the station and get the tube which means I'd pay:

Parking at the station is £108.20 x 12 = £1,298.40. 

Monthly tube ticket: £124.50 x12 = £1,494. 

That's £2,792.40 a year. Or almost three Bromptons. That also doesn't include petrol. 

So far from it being expensive, it saves me money.

Of course, the same argument applies to cheaper bikes as much as it does to more expensive ones. But the purchase cost has to be compared to what your alternatives are.


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## SavageHoutkop (12 Nov 2016)

And my (originally) c. £850 Brompton has replaced 8 years' worth of bus tickets (so far) at around £575 a year...


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## jefmcg (12 Nov 2016)

Anyone who can afford a car can afford a brompton.


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## The Jogger (12 Nov 2016)

I got rid of my car, I have free travel on the tube and buses etc but as I said earlier my preferred mode of transport is the Brompton in London. I got mine on the C2W scheme and added a bit to the 1k voucher but it is the best investment I've made and if I was still working and for a private company, I think buying a Brompton would pay for itself again and again.


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## freiston (28 Nov 2016)

I tend to steer clear of this board because it's hard to find any thread that is not about Bromptons (I'm not against them but my interest in them, for various reasons, is low). I read the OP - specifies that advice on sub £500 non-Brompton folder is required, so I read on - nigh on 8 pages full of 'Brompton'. Depressing.

I have a Tern C7 - bought from Evans as a 'last year model' and so I got it for, IIRC, £325 instead of £425. I haven't done many miles on it but I like it. I've carried it on a Virgin train (fitted nicely on a shelf of the luggage rack by the end of the carriage), on a West Midlands 900/X1 bus (spacey double decker), carried it into shops (got weird looks from the staff but no challenges - I suspect the same would have happened whatever the make). I have a decent pannier rack on it and have used it for shopping and collecting parcels from the Royal Mail delivery office (they had no problem with me taking the bike in). The most I have cycled on it in one trip is about 14 miles urban. I have used it on narrow country lane rides with hills but only up to 10 miles. When transporting it in a three-door Fiesta, the back seat had to be folded to get the bike in the back - but it was only just necessary to fold the seat (and I can't remember if there was anything else in the 'boot' that needed room too) but I have heard of others easily fitting Terns in the back of other models of car without folding seats down. I wouldn't want to take it on crowded buses. It folds/unfolds quickly and I find it easy enough to carry but I wouldn't want to carry it for long; iirc, it weighs about 12Kg.

I can't remember (and I'm not going to count the teeth now) but I think the gear range is about 33" to 75". It's the first small wheel or folder I've had since primary school (several decades ago) and I found the ride a bit strange and 'twitchy' at first and was surprised at the effects of pot-holes on handling (my other bike is a touring bike) but soon got used to it and I love it now.


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## shouldbeinbed (28 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Anyone who can afford a car can afford a brompton.


But maybe not at the same time.


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## shouldbeinbed (28 Nov 2016)

freiston said:


> I tend to steer clear of this board because it's hard to find any thread that is not about Bromptons (I'm not against them but my interest in them, for various reasons, is low). I read the OP - specifies that advice on sub £500 non-Brompton folder is required, so I read on - nigh on 8 pages full of 'Brompton'. Depressing.
> 
> <snip>



To be fair, quite a number, myself included, start from a position of Not a Brompton, but having through necessity, peer pressure, curiosity, whatever.... bought one find that they are an awful lot more of a bike than expected or believed. I don't see anything wrong with making alternative arguments or suggestions to help with a more rounded opinion and buying experience (YKWIM) 

I've moved my Brompton on now, in preference for my older Birdy, but these are by and large even more costly than the Brommy new. 

There have been posts on Tern's & Dahon's too but realistically from my empirical and anecdotal observations on the roads around Manchester, the proportion of posts is akin to the proportion of bikes out there. Maybe something else people could wish to factor into a buying decision???


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## Fab Foodie (28 Nov 2016)

freiston said:


> I tend to steer clear of this board because it's hard to find any thread that is not about Bromptons (I'm not against them but my interest in them, for various reasons, is low). I read the OP - specifies that advice on sub £500 non-Brompton folder is required, so I read on - nigh on 8 pages full of 'Brompton'. Depressing.
> 
> I have a Tern C7 - bought from Evans as a 'last year model' and so I got it for, IIRC, £325 instead of £425. I haven't done many miles on it but I like it. I've carried it on a Virgin train (fitted nicely on a shelf of the luggage rack by the end of the carriage), on a West Midlands 900/X1 bus (spacey double decker), carried it into shops (got weird looks from the staff but no challenges - I suspect the same would have happened whatever the make). I have a decent pannier rack on it and have used it for shopping and collecting parcels from the Royal Mail delivery office (they had no problem with me taking the bike in). The most I have cycled on it in one trip is about 14 miles urban. I have used it on narrow country lane rides with hills but only up to 10 miles. When transporting it in a three-door Fiesta, the back seat had to be folded to get the bike in the back - but it was only just necessary to fold the seat (and I can't remember if there was anything else in the 'boot' that needed room too) but I have heard of others easily fitting Terns in the back of other models of car without folding seats down. I wouldn't want to take it on crowded buses. It folds/unfolds quickly and I find it easy enough to carry but I wouldn't want to carry it for long; iirc, it weighs about 12Kg.
> 
> I can't remember (and I'm not going to count the teeth now) but I think the gear range is about 33" to 75". It's the first small wheel or folder I've had since primary school (several decades ago) and I found the ride a bit strange and 'twitchy' at first and was surprised at the effects of pot-holes on handling (my other bike is a touring bike) but soon got used to it and I love it now.


I understand your position and can see the frustration.
I have an old BSA folder thats an excellent bike, far more capable than people give credit. We have one nutter here who tours on a Raleigh 20 and numerous others that get great service from their Dahon, Terns, Birdys etc. All good bikes in their own right. BUT neither of them are Brompton alternatives IF the total Brompton functionality is what you need.


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## chriscross1966 (28 Nov 2016)

jefmcg said:


> Anyone who can afford a car can afford a brompton.



My H3R with hub dynamo lighting cost more than all three of my vans put together......


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## 12boy (28 Nov 2016)

Perhaps it is so obvious no one remarks on it but besides saving transportation costs as Kell explained, I am a firm believer in bike medicine...riding a bike as a daily routine is simply good for you. Incorporating a little exercise into your day which has to be done if you would like to get home means you will do it even if you feel lazy that day, and whatever stresses I may have encountered at work are pretty much forgotten after a brisk ride home. If travel and/or other responsibilities prevent me from riding, after a few days I get grumpy, and need my bike fix to be pleasant, or what passes for pleasant with me. My Brompton enables me to easily take it with me when I travel, and since it takes little maintenance I can usually squeeze in a ride. Any folder that folds small would work too. And, like Chrisscross 1966, the Brompton is probably worth more than any of my my 3 POS vehicles if not all 3 together.


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## Salar (28 Nov 2016)

Now I don't own or have ever ridden a Brompton so cannot comment on them,but can someone tell me why there are nearly always 100+ for sale on ebay.?


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## srw (28 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Now I don't own or have ever ridden a Brompton so cannot comment on them,but can someone tell me why there are nearly always 100+ for sale on ebay.?


Because over half a million have been made, and most are still rideable. And demand outstrips supply, so they maintain their value well.


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## shouldbeinbed (28 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Now I don't own or have ever ridden a Brompton so cannot comment on them,but can someone tell me why there are nearly always 100+ for sale on ebay.?


Change of job, change of location, change of necessity to travel by bike, company car, change of family circumstances, impulse buy gone wrong, theft, existing owner bought a new one, Brompton dock sell offs, A tiger ate your left leg...... Who knows? but as SRW says they are an asset that holds a residual value very well and with the usual waiting list for brand new, used ones sell well 2nd hand. Also the relative simplicity, robustness and consistency of the build and parts means that age and obsolescence is much less a factor in this market.


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## doginabag (28 Nov 2016)

Also in respect to their resale value, you could buy a new one every year using the cycle scheme and sell off the old one always maintaining a <1 year old bike for little or no cost.


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## chriscross1966 (28 Nov 2016)

Salar said:


> Now I don't own or have ever ridden a Brompton so cannot comment on them,but can someone tell me why there are nearly always 100+ for sale on ebay.?


Well I owned my first one, an M3L bought off eBay for two years... At the end of that I had a list of bits I wanted different and so bought that (an H3R with Shimano hub dynamo) with the help of C2W.... Four years down the line I have another list that says "More gears, lighter"... Tried an S6X... Absolutely loathe the gear change system... I'm autistic so that will always be an issue now I've locked onto it, so I decided that instead of buying a new one I would spend the money on upgrading my current one. Alfine 11 speed conversion from Kinetics and carbon fibre or titanium everything that's practical to do so. I would expect that story, certainly the start of it is pretty common, bought a S/H one, made a list of what I wanted different, bought a brand new one, sold the old one on...


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## TheDoctor (30 Nov 2016)

doginabag said:


> Also in respect to their resale value, you could buy a new one every year using the cycle scheme and sell off the old one always maintaining a <1 year old bike for little or no cost.


Easily. I could ebay my 8 year old M6R and I'd have made money.


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## Pale Rider (30 Nov 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> Easily. I could ebay my 8 year old M6R and I'd have made money.



The thread title should have been: Can't afford not to buy a Brompton.


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