# Turbo Miles Don't Count



## Milkfloat (29 Feb 2016)

I know the answer to my question is 'Do what you want, who cares', however, is the old saying that miles on a turbo do not count to your yearly total relevant nowadays?

Modern smart trainers vary resistance for you and are very aware of the effort being put in and usually for me per mile the effort on a turbo is harder than on the road. 

Traditionally I don't count turbo miles in my yearly totals, although strava is doing it for me. Do you think it is time for convention to change?


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## Fab Foodie (29 Feb 2016)

I find not counting miles is the way to a better life ....


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

If you ride the equivalent of 20 miles on a smart turbo, then you may, possibly, have ridden the equivalent of 20 miles. But you haven't actually ridden 20 miles. I once shot down the red baron in an air combat simulation game, but I'm pretty sure he would have kicked my arse in real life...


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## helston90 (29 Feb 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Do you think it is time for convention to change?


No, if you're not out on the mean streets avoiding the pot holes in the dark, battling the head wind on the way home, changing a flat when it's minus 5 and then cleaning the grit out from between your teeth then it doesn't count towards your yearly total. 
Riding in the garage effectively with your brakes on a bit does not constitute year round road cycling. MTFU or keep two separate tallies. 

Or do what you like- so long as your happy!


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## Crackle (29 Feb 2016)

I happily couldn't give a shoot about made up rules, a bit like that Velomanti shite. So I'll continue to do what I like, only circumstances excepting is if I joined a challenge or something where of course I'd respect the rules in play. Otherwise, who cares, it's all time on the bike as opposed to typing shite on here whilst supping a coffee........


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## Crackle (29 Feb 2016)

And now I've finished the coffee I need to turn my attention to whether I have another one. Are there any guidelines for multiple cups of coffee I need to adhere to?


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

Crackle said:


> Are there any guidelines for multiple cups of coffee I need to adhere to?



You don't give a shoot about made-up rules, so the point is moot...


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## jay clock (29 Feb 2016)

I count mine if trying to lose weight, as the sweat that pores off me pretty much proves I have put some effort in


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

jay clock said:


> I count mine if trying to lose weight, as the sweat that pores off me pretty much proves I have put some effort in


I'm trying to understand the logic, but I can't....


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## ColinJ (29 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> I'm trying to understand the logic, but I can't....


I CAN, but not eating as much would still be a better solution!


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## User33236 (29 Feb 2016)

I'll be counting mine from tomorrow (hopefully) as plaster cast due to come off but will still not be strong enough to get out on the roads for a while yet. 

Tri-bars on the turbo bike will need to suffice for a bit.


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## MrPie (29 Feb 2016)

1. Take average speed over the year. 2. Tot up the number of hours spent on the turbo and then multiply hours by av speed. 3. Add to road miles.
Don't care if others agree / disagree.....it's my house and my rules


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## jay clock (29 Feb 2016)

ColinJ said:


> I CAN, but not eating as much would still be a better solution!


I try to do both ! Eat less and do more exercise


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## Dogtrousers (29 Feb 2016)

Mileage logging websites allow you to track these separately (I think, I haven't checked them all). So you can have two totals. Inside and outdoors. Quote them next to each other and allow your devoted fans to decide whether to add them together or not.


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## jowwy (29 Feb 2016)

i have said smart trainer and add my smart turbo trainer miles to my overall.......couldnt care less what others do


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## Rasmus (29 Feb 2016)

It depends on what your objective is. If you want to measure how many "road-equivalent" miles you have done to judge the progress of a winter training regime then go ahead and count them. On the other hand, if you want to measure how much distance you have spent enjoying the wonderful nature of outdoor cycling, then don't.

Ultimately, though, there can be only one answer: Do what you want, who cares?


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

Rasmus said:


> It depends on what your objective is. If you want to measure how many "road-equivalent" miles you have done to judge the progress of a winter training regime then go ahead and count them. On the other hand, if you want to measure how much distance you have spent enjoying the wonderful nature of outdoor cycling, then don't.



The third option is counting the amount of time you have spent at your target intensity levels while on the turbo. Obviously not much point if you don't have performance goals which relate to time at intensity.


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## Joshua Plumtree (29 Feb 2016)

I find counting the hours I've spent on the bike during a given time period much more useful than the actual miles covered, so only make a note of time and average speed on the turbo to give some indication of where my fitness levels are.

I put my turbo sessions on Strava but only as time spent and not distance covered. Some people can become very irate if you suddenly rack up 350** turbo miles for the week on the turbo and knock them off the top of the leader board, when they've been outside hammering the hills all week for a total of 342!

** Just to add that I've never actually done 350 miles for a week on the turbo, in case you thought I was some kind of loony!


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## Joshua Plumtree (29 Feb 2016)

Whoops! Basically just copied Citrus's post!


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Citrus



Cit*i*us...


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## Joshua Plumtree (29 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> Cit*i*us...



Sorry Citus!


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## Tin Pot (29 Feb 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> I know the answer to my question is 'Do what you want, who cares', however, is the old saying that miles on a turbo do not count to your yearly total relevant nowadays?
> 
> Modern smart trainers vary resistance for you and are very aware of the effort being put in and usually for me per mile the effort on a turbo is harder than on the road.
> 
> Traditionally I don't count turbo miles in my yearly totals, although strava is doing it for me. Do you think it is time for convention to change?



Who are you counting for?

I can't imagine miles being an appropriate measure of activity on a turbo.


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## ianrauk (29 Feb 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Mileage logging websites allow you to track these separately (I think, I haven't checked them all). So you can have two totals. Inside and outdoors. Quote them next to each other and allow your devoted fans to decide whether to add them together or not.




Indeed.
MyCyclingLog you can separate the real road miles from the 1 or 2 inches travelled on the turbo/rollers.


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## windyrider (29 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> If you ride the equivalent of 20 miles on a smart turbo, then you may, possibly, have ridden the equivalent of 20 miles. But you haven't actually ridden 20 miles. I once shot down the red baron in an air combat simulation game, but I'm pretty sure he would have kicked my arse in real life...




I fail to see how riding a turbo trainer for a given amount of real time and registering an equivalent distance has to do with sitting on your ass and playing a computer game. Does the distance actually count, well assuming you were not riding in a virtual world while sat on backside and drinking a coffee, but physically pushing around pedals and cranks etc in the real world and getting all hot and bothered in the process, then yes damn right it counts, work done is work done.


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

windyrider said:


> I fail to see how riding a turbo trainer for a given amount of real time and registering an equivalent distance has to do with sitting on your ass and playing a computer game.



Clearly it has no direct correlation - like most metaphors...


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## Citius (29 Feb 2016)

Joshua Plumtree said:


> Sorry Citus!



er...


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## Milkfloat (29 Feb 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> Who are you counting for?
> 
> I can't imagine miles being an appropriate measure of activity on a turbo.



The counting mile is just for convention - lots of people count their miles and display them proudly and have done for many years. As mentioned they are fairly meaningless as one man's flat mile is very different to another's hilly (before I get TNM'ed, same for women too). Perhaps we should all be measuring watts per year, maybe even divided by weight?

I think with smart turbos now, they are a far better approximation of the real riding than they used to be. I was floating the idea that perhaps the meaningless numbers of yesteryear could be replaced with meaningless numbers of today


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## Mugshot (29 Feb 2016)

A little group of acquaintances have started doing reasonably regular group turbo sessions in preparation for warm weather riding and sportives they've entered rather than doing any winter road miles at all. They meet once a week and train for around an hour using the GCN youtube training videos without a heart rate monitor, a cadence sensor or a speedo between them, but hey, they're happy.


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## Andrew_P (29 Feb 2016)

I think they should count for more just because it is as dull as ditch water. Not that I have a turbo


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## Tin Pot (29 Feb 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> The counting mile is just for convention - lots of people count their miles and display them proudly and have done for many years. As mentioned they are fairly meaningless as one man's flat mile is very different to another's hilly (before I get TNM'ed, same for women too). Perhaps we should all be measuring watts per year, maybe even divided by weight?
> 
> I think with smart turbos now, they are a far better approximation of the real riding than they used to be. I was floating the idea that perhaps the meaningless numbers of yesteryear could be replaced with meaningless numbers of today



Well yeah, people who love turbos are all about FTP and watts per kilo.

So, about three people on this forum anyway! 

At the end of the day it's like number of steps taken, or number of press ups - no one cares. I would think people are more interested in how fast you are in a race - something results oriented, not process oriented.


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## Dogtrousers (29 Feb 2016)

Just by the by - I've never ridden a turbo but I have a Wattbike and various gym stationary bikes, and I always find the output suspiciously generous. The Wattbike tells me I'm going at a ludicrous speed and I suspect that it's flattering me. Are other users a bit suspicious, or does 15 miles on the turbo really feel like 15 miles on the road?


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## Milkfloat (29 Feb 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Just by the by - I've never ridden a turbo but I have a Wattbike and various gym stationary bikes, and I always find the output suspiciously generous. The Wattbike tells me I'm going at a ludicrous speed and I suspect that it's flattering me. Are other users a bit suspicious, or does 15 miles on the turbo really feel like 15 miles on the road?



I find the Wattbike does not alter the speed in relation to the resistance, so if I have a low resistance easy spin I cover far more miles than a gut busting session at a decent resistance.


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## HLaB (29 Feb 2016)

I've done more turbo work in the last 6 months than I did in the 6years previous. Thinking back to my old turbo I could sprint up to 57mph whereas with my current turbo my max sprint is 23mph. I could theoretically go 'further' on the old turbo but I think I'm fitter even though I'm recording less theoretical miles; distance on a turbo is irrelevant but in the words of the immortal, 'do what you want'


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## Gert Lush (29 Feb 2016)

I think they should, so I will


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## Tin Pot (29 Feb 2016)

Citius said:


> er...



Citrus would've been funnier


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## Tenacious Sloth (29 Feb 2016)

As you are stationary on a trainer, the air around you is also stationary.

It's as if every time you go out on the roads you have a tailwind that is blowing at the same speed you're peddling at.

If I had a tailwind every time I got on the bike, I reckon my annual mileage would probably double ( and everyone would want to ride with me).

If you want to add these miles to your annual total, feel free. The only person you're kidding is yourself.

Just MTFU and get out there!

Graham


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## Bollo (29 Feb 2016)

I don't count miles, I count victories!

I have 0 victories.


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## ColinJ (29 Feb 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> ... does 15 miles on the turbo really feel like 15 miles on the road?


Probably _NOT_! 

(I can crank the resistance up so high on my gym bike that I can barely get the cranks round even if I stand up and use my full body weight to bear down on the pedals. OTOH, I can turn it down so low that pedalling is virtually effortless and I just spin out.)


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## Milkfloat (1 Mar 2016)

Tenacious Sloth said:


> As you are stationary on a trainer, the air around you is also stationary.
> 
> It's as if every time you go out on the roads you have a tailwind that is blowing at the same speed you're peddling at.
> 
> ...



Which is why I have only raised this with the advent of smart trainers, which take wind/drag into account as well as resistance for hills etc. It puzzles me that people display their annual mileage on the roads when they are just as meaningless.


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## Tin Pot (1 Mar 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Which is why I have only raised this with the advent of smart trainers, which take wind/drag into account as well as resistance for hills etc. It puzzles me that people display their annual mileage on the roads when they are just as meaningless.



As my father said to me "people are basically stupid."


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## steveindenmark (1 Mar 2016)

I think you make your own choice because nobody else really cares.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Mar 2016)

FWIW stationary bike rides aren't eligible for the metric and imperial century a month challenges.


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## steveindenmark (1 Mar 2016)

Or half centuries


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## Katherine (1 Mar 2016)

It's up to you but whatever resistance you set, it's not the same as riding on the roads. You can't factor in the weather, traffic, junctions, road condition, other road users etc. Maybe you could record 2 separate totals?


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## rich p (1 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> And now I've finished the coffee I need to turn my attention to whether I have another one. Are there any guidelines for multiple cups of coffee I need to adhere to?


I doubt if it's going to make you hyperactive, so go for it...


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## Tin Pot (1 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> I doubt if it's going to make you hyperactive, so go for it...



For an endurance ride you need between 3-13mg/kg and have gone without for a few days beforehand.

http://coachjoebeer.macmate.me/coachjoebeer/resources/JBST-Caffeine-loading-Factsheet.pdf


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## Mugshot (1 Mar 2016)

Somebody I know has been using zwift through the winter. However, he uploads the zwift data to strava (I assume this is automatic) and also adds a stationary trainer ride for the same amount. EVERY SINGLE TIME! Not only is he counting the turbo miles, he's doubling them!


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## Dogtrousers (1 Mar 2016)

Crackle said:


> Are there any guidelines for multiple cups of coffee I need to adhere to?


Decaf cups don't count.


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## Milkfloat (1 Mar 2016)

Mugshot said:


> Somebody I know has been using zwift through the winter. However, he uploads the zwift data to strava (I assume this is automatic) and also adds a stationary trainer ride for the same amount. EVERY SINGLE TIME! Not only is he counting the turbo miles, he's doubling them!



Strava or it didn't happen! - oh, hold on a minute.....


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## Mugshot (1 Mar 2016)

Milkfloat said:


> Strava or it didn't happen! - oh, hold on a minute.....









I don't_ think _I'm wrong.


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## jefmcg (1 Mar 2016)

I'm going to add to the chorus, but "it depends on your audience". If you feel you have matched turbo and real miles, and you want to compare your output to last year, then count them. If you want to make sure you cover a certain "mileage" each week, and need to combine indoor and outdoor miles into a single figure, then again, count them. If you are working with a coach or team that has targets, then count them.

If you are in a challenge that bans turbos, then don't. 

The first year I went further than 8000km (5000miles) I shared that on facebook to my mostly non-cyclist friends. It seemed valid to share that as it's a meaningful, understandable number. Some friends mentioned it was further than they had driven (it was certainly further than I drove that year). I really wouldn't share on facebook, that I used a piece of gym equipment that is calibrated to be accurately equivalent to road cycling to travel the equivalent of x miles. That seems as arbitrary as multiplying weight x reps x sets and saying I lifted 1 tonne in the gym today. Might be true, but it's just a number.

If you use other pieces of stationery equipment that measure wattage, do you take that number and convert it to miles on a bike?


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## Crackle (1 Mar 2016)

rich p said:


> I doubt if it's going to make you hyperactive, so go for it...


Buzzin' me: Well something's buzzin'. It might be my nose hair trimmer.


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## windyrider (2 Mar 2016)

Citius said:


> Clearly it has no direct correlation - like most metaphors...



Clear as Mud (idiom) :-))


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## dave r (3 Mar 2016)

When I'm on the turbo all I have is my MP3 player and my heart monitor, the only thing I look at to gauge my effort is how wet my towel is and how big is the puddle on the floor.


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## Citius (3 Mar 2016)

I sometimes count turbo time by how many 90s house tunes I can get through in a session...


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## dave r (4 Mar 2016)

Citius said:


> I sometimes count turbo time by how many 90s house tunes I can get through in a session...



I must admit I'm not a fan of house tunes, I much prefer songs from the 50's and 60's, but thats my era.


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