# Are electrically assisted bikes cheating (poll)



## jonny jeez (14 Aug 2016)

I'm interested to see how we as a group perceive assisted ebikes.

I'm asking about assisted ebikes...the type that add power to each pedal stroke (not the type where you don't pedal and just press an accelerator button)


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## vickster (14 Aug 2016)

No, unless they are being used in a race


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## CanucksTraveller (14 Aug 2016)

If you ain't competin, it can't be cheatin!


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## CanucksTraveller (14 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Cheating who?



Johnny has posted this poll as a response to another thread; @Phil Fouracre wrote an OP defending them against those who claim riding an e bike is cheating.


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## GrumpyGregry (14 Aug 2016)

Cheating at what?


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## winjim (14 Aug 2016)

CanucksTraveller said:


> If you ain't competin, it can't be cheatin!


True, but I would love to have a bike with a hidden motor so I could cruise past all the sportive MAMILs who _think_ they are competing.


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## jonny jeez (14 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Cheating who?


That's for contributors to decide


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## Yellow Saddle (14 Aug 2016)

It is only cheating if you get caught.


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## Drago (14 Aug 2016)

They're not for me, doesn't mean they're not right for someone else.


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## crazyjoe101 (14 Aug 2016)

It depends


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## ufkacbln (14 Aug 2016)

Posted before..

My wife is disabled and her Bionx powered Gekko gives a new lease that allows her to cycle. The assisted input also allows regulation of the input, with a high input for the last stretch home, but allowing an unassisted mode at the start



We then found that when we got somewhere we were restricted, so bought a Christiania trike to lug a mobility scooter to allow mobility when we arrived somewhere. However a very heavy trike carrying a 70kg mobility scooter needed a litte assistance on hills, hence the power assist

MY MiL also extended her cycling into her 80's by using an electrical assist system

They have a genuine place in the diversity of cycling


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## iandg (14 Aug 2016)

If it gets people out of cars and onto 2 wheels that's a good thing.


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## Pale Rider (14 Aug 2016)

User said:


> Cheating who?



As an ebiker, I'm bound to like this post.

It is also what I ask the occasional pushbiker who calls me a cheat on the road.

At the risk of taking such remarks too seriously, calling someone a cheat is a nasty allegation, it's akin to calling someone dishonest - not something I would do unless I was very sure of my ground.

The last time I was called a cheat was on a recent forum ride with @ColinJ.

It was on a long climb and I was trying to catch @Sea of vapours.

This involved edging alongside a roadie, who was climbing strongly.

After I'd dealt with the cheat remark, we had an agreeable conversation about ebikes and our cycling plans for the day.

To answer the OP's question about the view of CycleChat members, I've received nothing other than positive remarks from members on forum rides.

Ebikers have their uses - on a couple of forum rides I've provided some shelter for the others into a headwind, and some pacing up a long climb.


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## Buck (14 Aug 2016)

No.

I'm interested to see why the 2 people who said yes, think so...


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## EnPassant (14 Aug 2016)

No. It's not a race, so by definition you cannot be cheating.
Anyone on any form of two wheels is far far preferable to another ton of metal on the road.


ETA: However that doesn't seem to stop the tiny evil part of me pushing hard to get ahead of one on occasion. I fight the compulsion, it's not big, it's not clever and it impresses nobody.


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## keithmac (14 Aug 2016)

I'm a couple months into ebiking at only 39 (been riding normal bikes 30+ years).

I don't see making my commute to work a little easier as "cheating", I'm not racing anybody..

I've just built a second ebike as a weekend project, same again I'll enjoy riding that but won't be cheating anybody. If you can get out for longer and enjoy more time on the saddle surely it's a good thing?. 

I'm on my feet all day at work, making the ride home more enjoyable can only be a plus for me!.


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## welsh dragon (14 Aug 2016)

Of Course they are not cheating. Its a way for people to a) extend the years they can continue to cycle..b) gives people who hate hills or who are thinking of giving up new zest and motivation to get out. C) gives people who want to get some exercise a new way of doing so. D) allows people who may have problems with they're joints get out and about and improve theyre overall fitness. 

And these days.a lot of younger people are using them especially MTB users and trail users.

I'm giving serious consideration to getting one as I'm sick and tired of the hills here and losing motivation at a rapid rate of knots.

And lastly, who gives a stuff if some people don't like them, and who think they are cheating.


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## Hill Wimp (14 Aug 2016)

NO unless you are racing.

It's all cycling, exercise, getting out in the fresh air. What's not to like.


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## Markymark (14 Aug 2016)

Stupid fecking question. Are disabled parking spaces cheating at parking?

All sorts use assisted bikes. Those with mobility difficulties, injured, elderly or those who aren't as fit/strong as others. Or those that just want a less arduous ride. 

anyone who wants to point a finger can feck off.


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## Goggs (14 Aug 2016)

They're very popular around these parts. We have two companies in town who rent them out & they appear to be doing a roaring trade. I'd love one myself but they're out of my league price-wise.


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## johnnyb47 (14 Aug 2016)

No. E bikes are not cheating. They essentially open up the world to people of all walks of life. An elderly person who has enjoyed cycling all his life but cannot participate any more because of failing health or to someone who lives in a hilly area and just wants to cycle to work with minimal fuss. There's a 101reasons for the wanting of one. Dad has one because he has had a hip replacement which didn't go to well but at the ripe old age of 75 it still gives him the freedom to get out there and enjoy his ride out , as well as enjoying light exercise. At the local time trails there are cyclists with all kinds of bikes varying from steel framed road bikes to state of the art carbon fibre bikes. Would that be classed as cheating having a superior bike ? Definitely not in my view, Were all in it together and whether it's a normal bike or an E bike, the cities and country side would be a far nicer place to live if the car was replaced by these two wheeled wonders :-)) Its also nice to know that when i get old and knackered I will be fortunate to be able to continue cycling with the aid of an E bike. This was not really an option 10 years back for the older generation who would of want to continue cycling. I would love to see the future of E bikes become even more environmentally friendly though. Wouldn't it be great if a government scheme was set up for work places to have solar panels on the bike shed roofs to recharge E bikes whilst your at work as well as other places around the city centres. A carbon free and endless amount of free energy for all. Its all a long way off on doubt but one day I think this will eventually happen :-)


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## jonny jeez (14 Aug 2016)

crazyjoe101 said:


> It depends


On?


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## gbb (14 Aug 2016)

wicker man said:


> If it gets people out of cars and onto 2 wheels that's a good thing.


Amen to that.


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## Drago (14 Aug 2016)

Until theres no space in the bike racks, then its a bad thing.


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## shouldbeinbed (14 Aug 2016)

wicker man said:


> If it gets people out of cars and onto 2 wheels that's a good thing.


My sentiment exactly


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## fossyant (14 Aug 2016)

They are a good way to get folk on bikes. My old man is considering one to help with the ferocious head winds you get on the coast.

Some of the new electric assist MTB's from Scott etc look amazing, but so they should at the price. Electric DH bikes.


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## keithmac (14 Aug 2016)

Wind and hills are where they come into their own, on the flat I'm normally out of assist completely.


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## Lonestar (14 Aug 2016)

No.Bloke at work has one and I think it's great.


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## ColinJ (14 Aug 2016)

I have done some very long and hilly rides with Pale Rider recently, him riding his trusty ebike. I think it would be fair to say that there is no way that he could have done them on a conventional bike this year. Maybe in years to come if he really worked at it, but not right now. So, should he just have stayed at home and not bothered?

I asked him how much effort he has to make and how much is done by the motor. He reckons it is about 50-50. That means that he is still getting a lot of beneficial exercise on those rides. (He really ought to give up his cigar breaks while waiting for me at the summits though!  )

Motor-assisted speeds are limited by law in the UK to (I think) 15.5 mph so there is no way that an ebiker is going to drop me on the flat or downhill. 15.5 mph is a speed that I can only do on the easiest of climbs though, or with a fantastic tailwind, but I am often last up the climbs anyway, so what does it matter if an ebiker or 2 join the others waiting for me!

I wouldn't buy an ebike while I am still fit enough to do my hilly rides unassisted but if the day comes where without help I would have to stick to boring flat routes, I will head down to the ebike shop!

PS I wouldn't be quite so happy to be accompanied by someone on an ebike that works without any pedal input. (I think those are not legal in the UK now?) That would be like someone on a motorbike/scooter riding with me. If someone is going to watch me suffer up a steep hill, then I'd like them to at least be breaking a sweat themselves!

Actually, if somebody had a health problem that prevented them putting ANY effort in, it wouldn't really be fair to deny them a chance to enjoy the countryside as well.

Just make whatever effort you can, and let a motor do the rest.


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## keithmac (14 Aug 2016)

I would say most of my riding is none to quarter assist, and half up big hills and wind!.

The pedal assist bikes don't ride themselves, the Gtech deffinitely requires rider input.


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## iandg (14 Aug 2016)

Changed my mind, I think they're a bad idea. My wife's just seen an advert for one on TV and the first thing she said to me was 'Cool, I could get an electric bike and then I could go out cycling with you' 

  

(I suggested we hire one for her to try - my friend is opening a cycling cafe in town and will have a few as part of his hire pool)


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## Dirk (14 Aug 2016)

Only cheating when they are used on Strava segments.
A few KoMs around here are a bit suspect.


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## ColinJ (14 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I struggle to get excited.


You can get blue pills for that ...


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## welsh dragon (14 Aug 2016)

I think there are ebike groups on strava that you can join in. To be fair I'm not bothered about strava anyway, and because there are lots of suspect times and speeds on strava for various reasons, it isn't worth following or putting too much if any value on it.


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## Mrs M (14 Aug 2016)

wicker man said:


> Changed my mind, I think they're a bad idea. My wife's just seen an advert for one on TV and the first thing she said to me was 'Cool, I could get an electric bike and then I could go out cycling with you'
> 
> 
> 
> (I suggested we hire one for her to try - my friend is opening a cycling cafe in town and will have a few as part of his hire pool)


I saw that ad this morning and told Mr M we would be getting these in the future so we can keep cycling 
I think they're great


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## Smokin Joe (14 Aug 2016)

Dirk Thrust said:


> Only cheating when they are used on Strava segments.
> A few KoMs around here are a bit suspect.


Strava isn't a competition with a prize for the winner. It's just a "Look at me" ego trip, so any method of getting the fastest time is fair play. If I was on it I'd set all my times in the car then sit back and watch all the Chris Froome wannabes trying to beat it.


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## Dirk (14 Aug 2016)

Smokin Joe said:


> Strava isn't a competition with a prize for the winner. It's just a "Look at me" ego trip, so any method of getting the fastest time is fair play. If I was on it I'd set all my times in the car then sit back and watch all the Chris Froome wannabes trying to beat it.


Each to his own.


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## Pat "5mph" (14 Aug 2016)

wicker man said:


> My wife's just seen an advert for one on TV and the first thing she said to me was 'Cool, I could get an electric bike and then I could go out cycling with you'


Aren't you thrilled?  

Ebikes: first time I saw one (it was actually two but you know what I mean) I was on foot, there was this elderly couple on their unusual touring bikes, fully loaded, crossing the lights.
So of course I started chatting with them, said I liked their bikes.
They told me proudly: "We are 75, you know, we are going on tour. These are our electric bikes, we could never manage without ".
Great, I thought, gives the older folks a chance to do what younger ones can do as a matter of fact.
I am Pat 5mph, middle aged, chubby and a smoker: still, when a woman on an electric bike came to ride with our group she could not keep up with me.
She had no health problems, does not smoke, is quite slim.
Obviously an electric bike isn't everything, plus the battery fell off into a puddle made us worried about electric shocks 
I did almost burst a gut riding with @Pale Rider, but that would have happened anyway, 'lecky bike or not.
If the time comes, I would get one. For now, I don't mind walking up hills.


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## jarlrmai (15 Aug 2016)

Saw a few folks out on ebikes on the weekend ride in Delamere, they looked to be having fun.


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## r04DiE (15 Aug 2016)

Another 'No.' Again, cheating at what, exactly?


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## Starchivore (15 Aug 2016)

Can someone please post angrily about how they _*are*_ all disgusting cheaters so that we can get a proper argument going because the tone of this thread so far has been very reasonable and intelligent and lacking in general unpleasantness thank you


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2016)

Starchivore said:


> Can someone please post angrily about how they _*are*_ all disgusting cheaters so that we can get a proper argument going because the tone of this thread so far has been very reasonable and intelligent and lacking in general unpleasantness thank you[/QUOTE
> 
> If you take the first door on your left I'm sure you will find something being discussed more vigorously.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (15 Aug 2016)

Rather 10 people on e-bikes "cheating" than 10 cars "doing it properly"


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## Tin Pot (15 Aug 2016)

Starchivore said:


> Can someone please post angrily about how they _*are*_ all disgusting cheaters so that we can get a proper argument going because the tone of this thread so far has been very reasonable and intelligent and lacking in general unpleasantness thank you



Of course it's cheating - it's obviously cheating. Anyone who doesn't think it's cheating obviously doesn't know the rules!


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## Tin Pot (15 Aug 2016)

I got out at the weekend on my new bike and managed to get in a lovely 35 mile ride, a new PB for me!!!


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## EnPassant (15 Aug 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> I got out at the weekend on my new bike and managed to get in a lovely 35 mile ride, a new PB for me!!!


Needs more mirrors. Many more.
Oh and a chrome plating job over the pink bits.


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## John the Monkey (15 Aug 2016)

Starchivore said:


> Can someone please post angrily about how they _*are*_ all disgusting cheaters so that we can get a proper argument going because the tone of this thread so far has been very reasonable and intelligent and lacking in general unpleasantness thank you


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## Funkweasel (15 Aug 2016)

Having seen some guy on a Bosch-powered Haibike thing going up a climb at Hamsterley on one yesterday... it's not cheating. It's awesome, and I want one. I wouldn't feel bad about using one to get to the fun downhill bits. It'd mean I could do far more in the same amount of time.


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2016)

Well. It seems that 11 people think its cheating. ..shame on you. Whoever you are


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## r04DiE (15 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> Well. It seems that 11 people think its cheating. ..shame on you. Whoever you are


Weirdos.


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> Weirdos.



Indeed. I have decided to buy myself one..


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## r04DiE (15 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> Indeed. I have decided to buy myself one..


That makes two of us!


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2016)

r04DiE said:


> That makes two of us!




Nice. We can be Billy no mates together then.


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## derrick (15 Aug 2016)

winjim said:


> True, but I would love to have a bike with a hidden motor so I could cruise past all the sportive MAMILs who _think_ they are competing.


Why?


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## User169 (15 Aug 2016)

There were rumours ealier in the year here in NL that helmets may be made mandatory for some of the fast e-bikes. As of next year, they'll be treated similarly to mopeds.


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## winjim (15 Aug 2016)

derrick said:


> Why?


Just for shoots & giggles.


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## ufkacbln (15 Aug 2016)

DP said:


> There were rumours ealier in the year here in NL that helmets may be made mandatory for some of the fast e-bikes. As of next year, they'll be treated similarly to mopeds.




Assuming that I have understood this......

"Fast e-bikes" are those that exceed the regulations (typically 15mph)

They would be treated as in the rest of Europe


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## fossyant (15 Aug 2016)

One of the lads that works at our caravan site in North Wales has a petrol assisted bike. It will clock well over 40 apparently. He uses it on the NCN path to get to work, as we all know these things aren't legal. Not seen it yet, but my dad has.


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## ufkacbln (15 Aug 2016)

At the moment "e-bikes" are like mobility scooters

The regulations are clear, but not always mentioned at point of sale

Some reports suggest that up to a third of mobility scooters exceed the stipulated limit for pavement use, require additionsl insurance and should only be used on roads


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Aug 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> Some reports suggest that up to a third of mobility scooters exceed the stipulated limit for pavement use, require additionsl insurance and should only be used on roads


On roads?
I get scared for them oaps if I happen to see them on the road!


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## EnPassant (15 Aug 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> On roads?
> I get scared for them oaps if I happen to see them on the road!


I get scared for everyone else when I see them on the pavement


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## keithmac (15 Aug 2016)

Shamed to admit I wasn't far off battering one of the mobility pilots as he nearly ran over my 4 year old daughter no long back..


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## Pale Rider (15 Aug 2016)

Cunobelin said:


> Assuming that I have understood this......
> 
> "Fast e-bikes" are those that exceed the regulations (typically 15mph)
> 
> They would be treated as in the rest of Europe



The European wide assist limit for a pedelec to be classed, effectively, as a bicycle is 15.5mph or 25kmh.

Nothing - other than the fact ebikes are very heavy - to stop the user pedalling it faster.

In mainland Europe there is another class, S or speed pedelec - where the assistance limit is 45km/h or 28mph.

In most countries, S-pedelecs require a registration plate, and for the user to have insurance and wear a helmet.

The class is not recognised in the UK.

Thus anyone using an ebike that assists above 15.5mph is riding a moped - almost always without insurance or a helmet - which cannot be legally used on anything other than a road.

I've heard of a couple of owners who have managed to register an S-pedelec as a low powered moped in this country, but there was an awful lot of form filling.

Pointless exercise, if you want to rattle along at 30mph legally, it's cheaper and altogether simpler to buy a manufacturer type approved moped.


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## John the Monkey (15 Aug 2016)

EnPassant said:


> I get scared for everyone else when I see them on the pavement


My village's drivers have helpfully protected everyone from that menace by parking all over the pavements.

As to the OP - I didn't vote, but I would see it as "cheating" for me to use one, because it isn't what cycling is about for me, right now. I'm not interested in judging what other people do in respect of e-bike use though.


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## Pat "5mph" (15 Aug 2016)

John the Monkey said:


> As to the OP - I didn't vote, but I would see it as "cheating" for me to use one, because it isn't what cycling is about for me, right now.


Yeah, well, we (you and I ) would be cheating ourselves, because we know that we can cycle unaided.
For those who can't, better them being on an electric bike than on no bike at all.


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## John the Monkey (15 Aug 2016)

Pat "5mph" said:


> For those who can't, better them being on an electric bike than on no bike at all.


Or even for those who don't like cycling unaided. It's not for me, but so long as it harm no one, &c


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## stephec (15 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> Indeed. I have decided to buy myself one..


You're buying a weirdo, I thought you already had enough of them round your way?


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2016)

stephec said:


> You're buying a weirdo, I thought you already had enough of them round your way?




You counting yourself in that category?


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## jarlrmai (15 Aug 2016)

Pale Rider said:


> Pointless exercise, if you want to rattle along at 30mph legally, it's cheaper and altogether simpler to buy a manufacturer type approved moped.



Or just be Wiggo


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## Sheffield_Tiger (15 Aug 2016)

fossyant said:


> One of the lads that works at our caravan site in North Wales has a petrol assisted bike. It will clock well over 40 apparently. He uses it on the NCN path to get to work, as we all know these things aren't legal. Not seen it yet, but my dad has.



That I can believe

I had a de-restricted homebrew e-bike brought in for service. I took it for a go down our warehouse just on twist and go - although without a speedo but I was definitely doing over 30 before I had to brake .

The stress on the motors and battery packs can make for a shorter service life - I know some of the Haibikes are easy to de-restrict but they have inbuilt diagnostics - if you've de-restricted it, no warranty


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## Accy cyclist (16 Aug 2016)

keithmac said:


> Shamed to admit I wasn't far off battering one of the mobility pilots as he nearly ran over my 4 year old daughter no long back..


I'll never forget the mobility pilot knocking my mum over in Blackpool about 10 years ago. She ended up with a gash over her eye brow that needed 7 stitches after a 3 hour wait in Blackpool Vic' A&E. I took the idiot's ignition key out and threw it across the road after he said it was her fault for not moving when he shouted at her to get out the way.


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## keithmac (16 Aug 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> I'll never forget the mobility pilot knocking my mum over in Blackpool about 10 years ago. She ended up with a gash over her eye brow that needed 7 stitches after a 3 hour wait in Blackpool Vic' A&E. I took the idiot's ignition key out and threw it across the road after he said it was her fault for not moving when he shouted at her to get out the way.



Should of inserted the key in his eye socket!.

Same as every walk of life I guess, a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else..


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## BorderReiver (16 Aug 2016)

If I rode one at the moment *I* would feel like *I* was "cheating" but I am a *cough* reasonably fit MAMIL. Getting to the top of a hill, or the end of a long ride knowing I hadn't done it under my own power just wouldn't feel right and would take a huge chunk of the satisfaction away. If I'm still cycling when I'm 85 and the only way I can get out is with electric assistance then I don't suppose it will feel like cheating then. Any cycling is better than no cycling. If I passed somebody on an electric bike (or, more likely, they passed me) I certainly wouldn't think they were cheating if they were okay with the idea.


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## r04DiE (16 Aug 2016)

^+1 to that!


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## MarquisMatsugae (16 Aug 2016)

No,they are not cheating,not themselves and not anyone.
I see them as giving someone who might not enjoy a clean physical bill of health a chance to still enjoy their passion.
Or even if they do have a clean bill of health,cycling is not all about tackling that massive hill,it's about enjoying other aspects of cycling.
Such as just being out in the fresh air,looking at the scenery etc.
Tackling big hills on trails is what my cycling is about,but there are times(in advancing years),I wish I had some assistance 
If you are out and about on a bike of any shape,size or powered ,it's good by me.


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## stephec (16 Aug 2016)

welsh dragon said:


> You counting yourself in that category?


Possibly, although I've only got six fingers on one of my hands.


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## stephec (16 Aug 2016)

I don't see what the problem is, if you want to ride one then ride one, if you don't then don't.

What does it matter if someone else does?

Just enjoy what you're doing and stop judging others who you know nothing about.


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## mjr (16 Aug 2016)

EnPassant said:


> I get scared for everyone else when I see them on the pavement


Maybe we need some tracks suitable for wheeled vehicles but closed to large high-speed motorised ones? 

Seriously, around here, mobility scooter pilots share the cycle tracks. It's actually quite useful because they get far more annoyed about motorists parking on it or otherwise obstructing tracks, because they're much less able to bump down kerbs quickly or get off and carry the bike past, plus the "you're obstructing me" argument is much more powerful when coming from someone perceived as disabled (although not all are, of course).


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## Profpointy (16 Aug 2016)

Is a 1000cc motorcycle cheating too ?


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## davidphilips (16 Aug 2016)

ebikes are great for some no way are they cheating and they are here to stay, with better battery technology they can only get better and hopefully even come down in both weight and price.
theres a man lives very close to me in his late 80s and has had both hips replaced and he goes out on his ebike no one could call him a cheat, inspiration maybe and i hope if i get to his age i can still cycle with or without an ebike, maybe by that time there will be a simple light weigh add on for a standard road bike weighing no more than a water bottle.


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## newfhouse (16 Aug 2016)

I don't know about cheating but this type is best avoided...


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## crazyjoe101 (17 Aug 2016)

jonny jeez said:


> On?


Well I gave a short answer to a short question. If you're competing then they are cheating, if not... then of course not.


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## summerdays (17 Aug 2016)

User said:


> I think it is seeing that one from behind that is to be avoided


Surely seeing that one beside you is worse....


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## ColinJ (17 Aug 2016)

summerdays said:


> Surely seeing that one beside you is worse....


Nah, I reckon that you'd live to ride another day ...


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## User32269 (17 Aug 2016)

Of course e-bikes are cheating. Carbon is cheating. Disc brakes are cheating. Indexed gears are cheating. Di2 is beyond cheating.
In fact, anybody who doesn't ride a 30+ year old steel racer with down tube friction shifters is a cheat. So there.


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## Dogtrousers (17 Aug 2016)

odav said:


> Of course e-bikes are cheating. Carbon is cheating. Disc brakes are cheating. Indexed gears are cheating. Di2 is beyond cheating.
> In fact, anybody who doesn't ride a 30+ year old steel racer with down tube friction shifters is a cheat. So there.


Friction shifters? To operate _gears_? Henri Desgrange is spinning in his grave at the thought of such cheatingness.


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## newfhouse (17 Aug 2016)

Round wheels? Cheating.


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## MarquisMatsugae (17 Aug 2016)

odav said:


> Of course e-bikes are cheating. Carbon is cheating. Disc brakes are cheating. Indexed gears are cheating. Di2 is beyond cheating.
> In fact, anybody who doesn't ride a 30+ year old steel racer with down tube friction shifters is a cheat. So there.



You tell 'em @odav !!!!


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## davidphilips (17 Aug 2016)

summerdays said:


> Surely seeing that one beside you is worse....



lol, or not seeing it beside you .


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## Cyrill666 (27 Jan 2019)

Personally I don't see it as cheating. Although part of the appeal to me is the health benefit of getting to the top of the climb under my own steam. I enjoy the "down" knowing I earned it in sweat on the "up".

I realise not everyone is capable or even cares about the "ups", and that's fine. Horses for courses etc. 

Maybe I'm just jealous as I can't afford the price tag, haha. 

I did see a guy in Hamsterley a few weeks ago towing friends up a climb via an e bike and length of rope. I didn't see them again so I assume it was successfull.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2019)

newfhouse said:


> I don't know about cheating but this type is best avoided...
> View attachment 139951



Is that Wiggo when he got his gold medals?


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## derrick (27 Jan 2019)

I have been riding with a guy on a Ribble Sle, He still has to work hard above 15mph, he pulls me up the steep hills, i drag him along the fast flats, it's hard work for him as it's a heavy bike above 15mph. Our average was 17.5 mph, so i know he worked hard, we got PB,s on a section of road where we did not drop below 18mph. So i feel if you have a guy on the E bike who is not after beating everyone up the hills, but is putting in more miles than he would normally do, it's all good, i really enjoy riding with him, as i do not have to stop at the top of the hill for him.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2106561238


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## derrick (27 Jan 2019)

User32269 said:


> Of course e-bikes are cheating. Carbon is cheating. Disc brakes are cheating. Indexed gears are cheating. Di2 is beyond cheating.
> In fact, anybody who doesn't ride a 30+ year old steel racer with down tube friction shifters is a cheat. So there.


Any bike with gears is cheating.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2019)

derrick said:


> Any bike with gears is cheating.



Which rules out anything other than penny farthings and hobby horses.


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## mustang1 (27 Jan 2019)

I'd like to see a bike race exclusively for e-bikes: TDF/e, San Remo e-type, Paris Roubaix e-Performante, RAAM e-aint-gonna-cut-it, and so on.


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## Rusty Nails (27 Jan 2019)

I saw an interesting looking e-fat-bike this week. Looks a lot of fun and not cheating anybody, except the government over fuel tax and vehicle duty.


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## Justinslow (27 Jan 2019)

I got accused of cheating when I used my TT bike to nab a couple of KOMS.... the bare faced cheek
Of it!  (I did try hard, does that make it ok?)


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2019)

derrick said:


> I have been riding with a guy on a Ribble Sle, He still has to work hard above 15mph, he pulls me up the steep hills, i drag him along the fast flats, it's hard work for him as it's a heavy bike above 15mph. Our average was 17.5 mph, so i know he worked hard, we got PB,s on a section of road where we did not drop below 18mph. So i feel if you have a guy on the E bike who is not after beating everyone up the hills, but is putting in more miles than he would normally do, it's all good, i really enjoy riding with him, as i do not have to stop at the top of the hill for him.
> https://www.strava.com/activities/2106561238



Be interesting to both wear HR straps to see how you compare on your rides together.


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## derrick (27 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Be interesting to both wear HR straps to see how you compare on your rides together.


Could be worth having a look at doing that. But not sure what it would tell us.i am a lot fitter and 12 years older.


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## kingrollo (29 Jan 2019)

Ridden by bastds


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## johnblack (29 Jan 2019)

If it gets people out then I'm all for it, might even get one myself when I'm old(er) for pub runs. However, I draw the line at ebikes for kids, that should be completely discouraged unless there are specific circumstances that stops them riding a standard bike.


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## biggs682 (29 Jan 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> It is only cheating if you get caught.



Very true


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## jowwy (1 Feb 2019)

johnblack said:


> If it gets people out then I'm all for it, might even get one myself when I'm old(er) for pub runs. However, I draw the line at ebikes for kids, that should be completely discouraged unless there are specific circumstances that stops them riding a standard bike.


Why??? Cant people just choose what suits them, its a free world. Who gives anyone the right to dictate some one elses choice based on snobbery


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## Drago (1 Feb 2019)

Cheating? I don't know, don't really care. If they're claiming to be doing something they're not then they're cheating, but the only person being cheated is themselves. Who really cares anyway?


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## jowwy (2 Feb 2019)

kingrollo said:


> Ridden by bastds


Says the guy riding aero wheels to cheat the wind....double standards


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## Zofo (2 Feb 2019)

Only if used in a race ie. mechanical doping -otherwise brilliant innovative step forward in cycling tech —IMO


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2019)

johnblack said:


> If it gets people out then I'm all for it, might even get one myself when I'm old(er) for pub runs. However, I draw the line at ebikes for kids, that should be completely discouraged unless there are specific circumstances that stops them riding a standard bike.


OT, I was quite surprised when a kid at work (well a kid compared to me, he's circa 18) said he's lazy and uses an e'bike


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> OT, I was quite surprised when a kid at work (well a kid compared to me, he's circa 18) said he's lazy and uses an e'bike



Better than him driving to work.


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Better than him driving to work.


Indeed. You cant actually drive to our work (or at least most folk cant), there's a very limited number of spaces which seems to help in making the office of 120 staff very sustainable :-)


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## johnblack (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Why??? Cant people just choose what suits them, its a free world. Who gives anyone the right to dictate some one elses choice based on snobbery


Not about snobbery, more about the health benefits of an active childhood, but it's nice that we all don't think the same way, that would make things very dull.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

johnblack said:


> Not about snobbery, more about the health benefits of an active childhood, but it's nice that we all don't think the same way, that would make things very dull.


Are you not still active on an e-bike?? Better than sitting on the sofa or lying on a bed playing computer games and munching on pork scratchings


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## johnblack (4 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> OT, I was quite surprised when a kid at work (well a kid compared to me, he's circa 18) said he's lazy and uses an e'bike


I can see that becoming more of a thing in towns and cities, great from a congestion point of view. Can see people in the future using an ebike replacing what would've been a walk.


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## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Are you not still active on an e-bike??


If twisting your wrist is active then yes. I have followed people on e bikes that they do not pedal much at all.


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> If twisting your wrist is active then yes. I have followed people on e bikes that they do not pedal much at all.


Does it hurt you?


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## johnblack (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Are you not still active on an e-bike?? Better than sitting on the sofa or lying on a bed playing computer games and munching on pork scratchings





jowwy said:


> Are you not still active on an e-bike?? Better than sitting on the sofa or lying on a bed playing computer games and munching on pork scratchings


I don't imagine kids on e-bikes will be particularly active, but if it gets them from their sofa to the shop to buy more pop and crisps then it's a good start. If it leads them to getting a bike and relying on their own steam then even better.


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## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Does it hurt you?


What has that got to do with anything?


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> What has that got to do with anything?


I'm just wondering why you're upset about something that has nothing to do with you, if you were in pain by their actions then I could understand it.


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## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> I'm just wondering why you're upset about something that has nothing to do with you, if you were in pain by their actions then I could understand it.


Why would i be upset.
This is a discusion about ebikes last time i looked.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> If twisting your wrist is active then yes. I have followed people on e bikes that they do not pedal much at all.


we are talking pedelecs....no s-pedelecs theres a difference

pedelecs need to be pedalled to work and is a legal requirement since 2015.....they are also limited to 15.5mph

so if your not offay with the rules and regualtions around the use of ebikes....stay off the thread


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

johnblack said:


> I don't imagine kids on e-bikes will be particularly active, but if it gets them from their sofa to the shop to buy more pop and crisps then it's a good start. If it leads them to getting a bike and relying on their own steam then even better.


why wouldnt they be active?? or is that based on your assumption, rather than actual evidence???


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## johnblack (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> why wouldnt they be active?? or is that based on your assumption, rather than actual evidence???



No I have collected no evidence, so we'll leave it that you are right.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

johnblack said:


> No I have collected no evidence, so we'll leave it that you are right.


its not about being right....your just making up assumptions based in your bias towards E-Bikes

if it gets them up off the sofa, bed, computer, dinner table etc etc etc - then it can only be a good thing. how anyone can make that into a negative is beyond me


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## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> we are talking pedelecs....no s-pedelecs theres a difference
> 
> pedelecs need to be pedalled to work and is a legal requirement since 2015.....they are also limited to 15.5mph
> 
> so if your not offay with the rules and regualtions around the use of ebikes....stay off the thread


WTF


----------



## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> WTF


whats the WTF for? its true......if you dont know anything about pedelecs and the regulations of use then stay away and stop confusing the thread, it does no good to anybody


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## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> whats the WTF for? its true......if you dont know anything about pedelecs and the regulations of use then stay away and stop confusing the thread, it does no good to anybody


This thread is about e bikes in general. it's no good you getting uptight with me or anyone else, it's a discusion,
As said before in another post when i get to old to ride as i do now, i will probably get one, But it will not be before i reach 70+, so only three years to go.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> This thread is about e bikes in general. it's no good you getting uptight with me or anyone else, it's a discusion,
> As said before in another post when i get to old to ride as i do now, i will probably get one, But it will not be before i reach 70+, so only three years to go.


and theres no point you putting out misinformation about twist throttles and the like........they are illegal and have been since jan 1st 2016....(any ebike built or purchased before then is ok)...after that they are illegal. so saying kids would be less active if riding a twist grip ebike is just stupidity to justify your ebike bias.........

so stop acting like your ten and be more like the 67+ that you are and be more truthful in your repsonses


----------



## derrick (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> and theres no point you putting out misinformation about twist throttles and the like........they are illegal and have been since jan 1st 2016....(any ebike built or purchased before then is ok)...after that they are illegal. so saying kids would be less active if riding a twist grip ebike is just stupidity to justify your ebike bias.........
> 
> so stop acting like your ten and be more like the 67+ that you are and be more truthful in your repsonses


I never said they where legal, nor did i mention kids. So stop throwing your toys out the pram, If you are happy riding one ride it.


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## dodgy (4 Feb 2019)

My neighbour has one, I had a go on it a few weeks ago. My impression is that the requirement to 'pedal' basically treats the crank as a switch to enable the motor. It may as well be a throttle, his was supplied by Evans I think, so it's not hacked or anything. 
I'm in favour of people on ebikes, especially if that means one less car. And while there are those who will themselves expend 200 watts (or whatever) over a 2 hour long ride, I bet there's lots of people who just glass crank and chug along on the battery.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> I never said they where legal, nor did i mention kids. So stop throwing your toys out the pram, If you are happy riding one ride it.


Re-read your post in reply to mine which is about kids using ebikes to get more active and you stated...." if you call twisting a grip active, then yes"

Maybe you need to read what your replaying too...no toy throwing here, just stating facts as i see them


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> My neighbour has one, I had a go on it a few weeks ago. My impression is that the requirement to 'pedal' basically treats the crank as a switch to enable the motor. It may as well be a throttle, his was supplied by Evans I think, so it's not hacked or anything.
> I'm in favour of people on ebikes, especially if that means one less car. And while there are those who will themselves expend 200 watts (or whatever) over a 2 hour long ride, I bet there's lots of people who just glass crank and chug along on the battery.


You litterally cannot do that on an ebike......you have to continuosly pedal for the motor to work and "some motors only work at mid to high cadence" or the motor does nothing.......

The moment you stop pedalling the motor stops altogether, you cant just glass crank as you say.......sheeesh


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## dodgy (4 Feb 2019)

That's what I meant really. Yes you have to continuously pedal, but how much pressure is required to make the motor kick in? The one I had a go on required just the smallest amount of pressure, almost as if the sensor was saying "yes, there is some pressure on the pedal, I will turn the motor on".


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2019)

I bought the wife a Freego, only went up the road on it & the motor was kicking in & out as I pedaled, no idea if it needs adjustment, but we'll see when he weather gets better


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> That's what I meant really. Yes you have to continuously pedal, but how much pressure is required to make the motor kick in? The one I had a go on required just the smallest amount of pressure, almost as if the sensor was saying "yes, there is some pressure on the pedal, I will turn the motor on".


if its a cadence sensor then quite a bit....all new motors are based on cadence, none of them are pressure sensors.....

and its all according what setting you have the motor - some have 4 settings like my cube, 1 eco ( need to pedal only 100watts assist), 2 tour ( need to pedal 150watts assist) , 3 Sport ( need to pedal 200 watts assist), 4 turbo ( need to pedal 250watts assist)

BUT if you pedal slowly, they will not give those extra levels of assist....its basically an extra % of the wattage your putting out ypurself upto a max of the setting your riding on) 

i hope this helps


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> I bought the wife a Freego, only went up the road on it & the motor was kicking in & out as I pedaled, no idea if it needs adjustment, but we'll see when he weather gets better


thats how they work...no pedal, no assist....also if over 15.5mph motor will switch off


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## Phaeton (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> thats how they work...no pedal, no assist....also if over 15.5mph motor will switch off


Yeah it wasn't a particularly pleasant ride


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## Smokin Joe (4 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> That's what I meant really. Yes you have to continuously pedal, but how much pressure is required to make the motor kick in? The one I had a go on required just the smallest amount of pressure, almost as if the sensor was saying "yes, there is some pressure on the pedal, I will turn the motor on".


Does it matter how much pressure you are putting on the pedals? If your legs are going round you are getting good exercise, you won't get race fit but you don't need to bust a gut to stay healthy.


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Yeah it wasn't a particularly pleasant ride


some are quite high torque.......my cube is only 50nm so it doesnt pulse ( as some say) when the engine cuts in and out, its a pretty smooth ride.

i got the bosch active plus motor on both my ebikes ( Cube x 2 ) and am more than happy with how it responds to my input


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## dodgy (4 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Does it matter how much pressure you are putting on the pedals?



Just as turning the pedals is better than not turning the pedals (or sitting on a sofa), turning the pedals harder is better than glass cranking.


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## FishFright (4 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> You litterally cannot do that on an ebike......you have to continuosly pedal for the motor to work and "some motors only work at mid to high cadence" or the motor does nothing.......
> 
> The moment you stop pedalling the motor stops altogether, you cant just glass crank as you say.......sheeesh



Once again we see the battle between someone with knowledge (Ebike) vs people armed with made up stuff continue on and on . And people think Brexit is an outlier haha.


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## dodgy (4 Feb 2019)

FishFright said:


> Once again we see the battle between someone with knowledge (Ebike) vs people armed with made up stuff continue on and on . And people think Brexit is an outlier haha.



Haha! So defensive! Why?
I still hold that it's possible to go from a 2 b with hardly any effort, certainly not enough to be considered a workout. Remember - I'm a fan of ebikes, I'm in the market for one. I'm not considering one for exercise, though.


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## FishFright (4 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> Haha! So defensive! Why?
> I still hold that it's possible to go from a 2 b with hardly any effort, certainly not enough to be considered a workout. Remember - I'm a fan of ebikes, I'm in the market for one. I'm not considering one for exercise, though.



My post was so far from DEfensive lol. Are you sure you're replying to the right post ?

ETA 
I wasn't referring to your posts @dodgy so it looks like wires got crossed here.


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## dodgy (4 Feb 2019)

I dunno anymore 

I like ebikes, think they're great, even tried to get my employer to consider them in our benefits (we give discounts to employees who buy EV cars but not to buyers of ebikes - sadly no luck).

Anyway, I'm done here, but one more thing before I go.



jowwy said:


> so if your not offay with the rules



I think you mean 'au fait'


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## jowwy (4 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> I dunno anymore
> 
> I like ebikes, think they're great, even tried to get my employer to consider them in our benefits (we give discounts to employees who buy EV cars but not to buyers of ebikes - sadly no luck).
> 
> ...


I may well have meant “au fait” but who cares anymore

As for your other post.....you can’t really ride with little effort, as with little effort, comes very little assist on the new pedelecs, old twist grip maybe is totally different.....but on 22kg+ emtb, you need to apply effort or ride a very heavy bike indeed


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## Smokin Joe (5 Feb 2019)

Now this is what you call an electric bike -


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYIJm7101pg


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## steveindenmark (7 Feb 2019)

I dont understand this us and them mentality of some people with regards to electric bikes. Unless you are in a competitive race. Why would you care what the guy next to you is sitting on.?

With the exception being road bikes. I would imagine that about a quarter of the bikes I see in my local town in Denmark are electric bikes. That js a huge increase compared to 2 years ago.

Very popular with private child minders and you often see 4 children in the front of the cargo bike. But they dont just appeal to the aged and infirm. Everybody likes them.


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## youngoldbloke (7 Feb 2019)

I've been riding my Orbea Gain on the club leisure rides for some time now. On the first few rides there were mystified expressions on some faces as to how I'd suddenly become an ace grimpeur , but generally kind words from them about the ebike making it possible to ride with them again.


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## Archie_tect (7 Feb 2019)

Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?
If it's to get somewhere as comfortably as possible then electrical assist is sensible.


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## Phaeton (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?


How about somebody who needs that extra help to get started into exercise in the first place, then when they improve they may decide to go non electric.


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## youngoldbloke (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?
> If it's to get somewhere as comfortably as possible then electrical assist is sensible.


In my case it's to help me stay fit after 60+ years of non- assisted cycling. I feel I've paid my due. It's not a case of "get somewhere as comfortably as possible". It is very possible to raise the heart rate riding an ebike, and get a good workout. My non-assisted pain free range is around 3-4 flat miles, that's all


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## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?
> If it's to get somewhere as comfortably as possible then electrical assist is sensible.


Why does it need to depend on some arbituary rule made up by a bunch of nobodies on when, why and who can ride a certain bike??? Who gives anyone the right to judge another based on their chosen ride??


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## Phaeton (7 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> The burning question is ... should you include mileage from your electric bike, _while on a turbo_, in your annual mileage totals?


Now that is a real cheating question


----------



## Ian H (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?
> If it's to get somewhere as comfortably as possible then electrical assist is sensible.



I ride my (unassisted) bike because I enjoy it, and because I can go a lot further than batteries would allow. Nothing much to do with keeping fit. 
I'd have no particular objection to an E-bike for commuting-type journeys, etc.


----------



## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Ian H said:


> I ride my (unassisted) bike because I enjoy it, and because I can go a lot further than batteries would allow. Nothing much to do with keeping fit.
> I'd have no particular objection to an E-bike for commuting-type journeys, etc.


So why no objection towards every ebike journey? Why only commuting type?


----------



## Archie_tect (7 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Why does it need to depend on some arbituary rule made up by a bunch of nobodies on when, why and who can ride a certain bike??? Who gives anyone the right to judge another based on their chosen ride??


It doesn't- I was just expressing my own view like you just did- everyone's different. If that offends then so be it. Cheers!


----------



## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> It doesn't- I was just expressing my own view like you just did- everyone's different. If that offends then so be it. Cheers!


No - you stated it depends on type of riding.....why does it??


----------



## Archie_tect (7 Feb 2019)

?? It's just my view jowwy... this isn't a courtroom- just saying.


----------



## Ian H (7 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> So why no objection towards every ebike journey? Why only commuting type?



I'm just giving my personal preferences. I don't wish to judge what anyone else does.


----------



## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> ?? It's just my view jowwy... this isn't a courtroom- just saying.


So in your view, you have to have a reason for riding an ebike?? Can’t just go and buy one like you can with any other bike??


----------



## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

Ian H said:


> I'm just giving my personal preferences. I don't wish to judge what anyone else does.


So why not say “ I personally prefer to road a pedal bike as I get more enjoyment from it, but if I was commuting then an ebike could be an option”

Rather than what you stated


----------



## youngoldbloke (7 Feb 2019)

Reckon it'd be difficult to fit the ebike on the turbo - how about rollers?


----------



## Drago (7 Feb 2019)

Are my motorbikes cheating?

What is cheating? So long as it's not a car then I give it a thumbs up.


----------



## jowwy (7 Feb 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Reckon it'd be difficult to fit the ebike on the turbo - how about rollers?


Nah....same as fitting any other bike


----------



## steveindenmark (7 Feb 2019)

Archie_tect said:


> Depends on why you're riding your bike. If it's to get fit and stay fit, what's the point of having an electrical assist?
> If it's to get somewhere as comfortably as possible then electrical assist is sensible.


An electric assist bike can also be used to get fit and stay fit. You just lower the assistance or switch it off. But it is still there if you want a leisurely ride. I had one for 2 years and it was good fun. I was still riding 200+kms a week on my road bike. But it was good to have an easy ride to work.

Electric bikes are here to stay and are probably the fastest growing market in the cycle industry.


----------



## steveindenmark (7 Feb 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> The burning question is ... should you include mileage from your electric bike, _while on a turbo_, in your annual mileage totals?


Or should turbo miles be included in your annual mileage at all? How can it be mileage if you don't go anywhere :0)

I dont count mine and I was less than 200km short of my 8000km target last year :0(


----------



## FishFright (7 Feb 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Or should turbo miles be included in your annual mileage at all? How can it be mileage if you don't go anywhere :0)
> 
> I dont count mine and I was less than 200km short of my 8000km target last year :0(



What we need is a complex mathematical function that accurate scales the effort used in riding in the various forms of Human Powered Transport versus Assited HPT, they would then use a selection of statistical methods to analyse the data collected by individual riders and produce an almost entirely arbitrary number that people can use to prove how much better a person they are than you.


----------



## Smokin Joe (7 Feb 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> Electric bikes are here to stay and are probably the fastest growing market in the cycle industry.


An established dealer in Cardigan (New Image Bikes) reckons E bikes will soon be his strongest market, sales have taken off in the last eighteen months and half the showroom is now given over to them.


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## pjd57 (7 Feb 2019)

I was being heckled , in a good natured way , to go faster by a small , chubby, deliveroo chap.
He was behind me shouting faster , faster, then passed me.

Only then did I notice his back wheel had a big electronic hub.


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## Ian H (7 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> So why not say “ I personally prefer to road a pedal bike as I get more enjoyment from it, but if I was commuting then an ebike could be an option”
> 
> Rather than what you stated


Because it's hardly English?


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Ian H said:


> Because it's hardly English?


You know what im getting at......make the opinion personal to you. Rather than generalising it to mean something else.


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I was being heckled , in a good natured way , to go faster by a small , chubby, deliveroo chap.
> He was behind me shouting faster , faster, then passed me.
> 
> Only then did I notice his back wheel had a big electronic hub.



I endured something similar last summer. I was taking it steady jn the extreme heat because I didn't want to die, but when the chubby fellow on the ebike thought he'd try and be funny and gee'd me up in a similar manner I was happy to oblige, throwing caution to the wind and buggering off on my 36 year old Claud and left him in my wake. 

They think they're funny and they are....but not for the reasons they think.

I've no issue with ebikes whatsoever. Not my thing at this stage in life, but I don't get upset over them. What does annoy me is the small proportion of smug twits that ride them, though I guess every mode of transport has it's own Prince Edward in the family.


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## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> I endured something similar last summer. I was taking it steady jn the extreme heat because I didn't want to die, but when the chubby fellow on the ebike thought he'd try and be funny and gee'd me up in a similar manner I was happy to oblige, throwing caution to the wind and buggering off on my 36 year old Claud and left him in my wake.
> 
> They think they're funny and they are....but not for the reasons they think.
> 
> I've no issue with ebikes whatsoever. Not my thing at this stage in life, but I don't get upset over them. What does annoy me is the small proportion of smug twits that ride them, though I guess every mode of transport has it's own Prince Edward in the family.


The same as the small portion of smug twits that state " i dont need one at my time of life".....its like stating you should only have one if your old, ill and infirm.....just not in the same direct manner


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## Ian H (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> You know what im getting at......make the opinion personal to you. rather than generalising it to mean something else.


I'm sure that you could take anything you read the wrong way, but that's not really my problem.


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## gbb (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> The same as the small portion of smug twits that state " i dont need one at my time of life".....its like stating you should only have one if your old, ill and infirm.....just not in the same direct manner


I suspect it's a tiny twist that's needed when people make that statement, it should probably be stated.....I don't need one at this point in my life. It may be that's what folk actually mean.


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## derrick (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> The same as the small portion of smug twits that state " i dont need one at my time of life".....its like stating you should only have one if your old, ill and infirm.....just not in the same direct manner


You can afford to be smug if you don't use one, 
You need to change your Avatar.


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

derrick said:


> You can afford to be smug if you don't use one,
> You need to change your Avatar.



Great put down


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Ian H said:


> I'm sure that you could take anything you read the wrong way, but that's not really my problem.


i would just rather a see a more personal statement that effects you and not the condemnation of the other one you posted. in which it can be misconstrude to read/say something else...........


Drago said:


> Great put down


all i see is another smug twit


derrick said:


> You can afford to be smug if you don't use one,
> You need to change your Avatar.


why do i need to change my avatar, that is actually me and not a picture of a celebrity with a pathetic quote attached


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

gbb said:


> I suspect it's a tiny twist that's needed when people make that statement, it should probably be stated.....I don't need one at this point in my life. It may be that's what folk actually mean.


then why dont they just say what the mean, rather than allow a twist to be made, so it can read something else........


----------



## Phaeton (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> all i see is another smug twit


I'm with you on e-bikes, but you're not coming over well on this, you risk becoming known as a KB Warrior


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> I'm with you on e-bikes, but you're not coming over well on this, you risk becoming known as a KB Warrior


to be honest i dont care what inernet twits see me as on their screens, as they mean nothing to me and never will...........i'm just fed up of seeing the constant drivel and condemnation of what people ride, just because it doesn't fit their narrow minded protocol and rhetoric


----------



## Phaeton (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> to be honest i dont care what inernet twits see me as on their screens, as they mean nothing to me and never will.


You may say that, but it's clearly not true


----------



## dodgy (8 Feb 2019)

ok ok, I've changed my mind. Ebikes are for old people and for those that have failed at *real *cycling.


----------



## dodgy (8 Feb 2019)

There's no bullying, just difference in opinion. Why get all het up when someone decides they might buy an ebike when they find conventional cycling too difficult? Why does everyone need to conform to your opinions on ebikes jowwy? Just accept that many people enjoy the satisfaction of a tough bike ride and aren't ready to strap a motor on to make it easier, yet.


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> There's no bullying, just difference in opinion. Why get all het up when someone decides they might buy an ebike when they find conventional cycling too difficult? Why does everyone need to conform to your opinions on ebikes jowwy? Just accept that many people enjoy the satisfaction of a tough bike ride and aren't ready to strap a motor on to make it easier, yet.


read what i said...its not about their opinion, its the judgement they make of others and when, how, what they ride.......

if they put a personal opinion forward about ebikes, then that's acceptable. but its not acceptable to judge others on their choices......it's the same as the bullies that judge other's based on sex, religion, race etc etc etc its narrow minded bigatory


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> ok ok, I've changed my mind. Ebikes are for old people and for those that have failed at *real *cycling.


and yet another rule......what is this REAL cycling you talk about??


----------



## glasgowcyclist (8 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> ok ok, I've changed my mind. Ebikes are for old people and for those that have failed at *real *cycling.





jowwy said:


> and yet another rule......what is this REAL cycling you talk about??



Oh dear...


----------



## derrick (8 Feb 2019)

The guy i ride with who has an E-bike, Bought it because he is lazy, and openly admits it. But he is a good mate, we ride a lot together and it enables him to keep up, So nothing wrong with E-bikes at all.


----------



## pjd57 (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> The same as the small portion of smug twits that state " i dont need one at my time of life".....its like stating you should only have one if your old, ill and infirm.....just not in the same direct manner




I don't see the attraction in it if you are old, ill or infirm



Edit ......I meant not old etc.
Sorry for confusion


----------



## vickster (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I don't see the attraction in it if you are old, ill or infirm


In what?? E-bikes? Why not?


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I don't see the attraction in it if you are old, ill or infirm





vickster said:


> In what?? E-bikes? Why not?



Because they don't work properly once they've been soaked in wee.


----------



## pjd57 (8 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> In what?? E-bikes? Why not?


I enjoy cycling.
I can get to anywhere I want to go to just turning the pedals.
I don't feel the need for any electronic assistance , so the idea of using one has no appeal to me.

If others want to use them that's their choice.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I enjoy cycling.
> I can get to anywhere I want to go to just turning the pedals.
> I don't feel the need for any electronic assistance , so the idea of using one has no appeal to me.
> 
> If others want to use them that's their choice.



That's all great but I'm puzzled that you can't see the attraction for others who are old, ill or infirm.


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> i'm just fed up of seeing the constant drivel...





Let me get this straight, because I am jolly confused now. You're taking the stance that people can ride whatever machine they want. OK, I follow that.

But you're also taking the stance people can't have whatever opinion they want. This seems an utter contradiction, you tolerate people's freedom to ride as they wish, but not to opine as they wish.

And you're complaining about drivel?


----------



## youngoldbloke (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I don't see the attraction in it if you are old, ill or infirm


You may wish to reconsider when your time comes …….


----------



## vickster (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> I enjoy cycling.
> I can get to anywhere I want to go to just turning the pedals.
> I don't feel the need for any electronic assistance , so the idea of using one has no appeal to me.
> 
> If others want to use them that's their choice.


As @glasgowcyclist says...??

Maybe you meant you can see the attraction...?


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> Let me get this straight, because I am jolly confused now. You're taking the stance that people can ride whatever machine they want. OK, I follow that.
> 
> But you're also taking the stance people can't have whatever opinion they want. This seems an utter contradiction, you tolerate people's freedom to ride as they wish, but not to opine as they wish.
> 
> And you're complaining about drivel?


maybe its best you go back and read my post on opinion.....i stated i accept people can have an opinion, what i dont accept is the judgement of others

judging others is not an opinion, its a condemnation of their choice.

hope this helps


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

Condemnation is simply a point on the spectrum of opinion.


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> Condemnation is simply a point on the spectrum of opinion.


again you refuse to accept my point..........judging others IS NOT an opinion


----------



## pjd57 (8 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> As @glasgowcyclist says...??
> 
> Maybe you meant you can see the attraction...?


You've lost me now.


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

How do you stop judging others and be accepting?

Monitor your thoughts.Think about what you thinking about. I often go along thinking things about other people, judging them, and I don't even realize it. ...
Look for the positive. Judgments are negative. ...
Avoid stereotyping. ...
Stop judging yourself. ...
Focus on your own life. ...
Remember how it feels.

*Judgmental* is a negative word to describe someone who often rushes to judgment without reason. *Judgmental* types are not open-minded or easygoing.


----------



## Drago (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> *Judgmental* is a negative word to describe...



You, when it comes to other people's rights to their opinions.


----------



## FishFright (8 Feb 2019)

Phaeton said:


> You may say that, but it's clearly not true



Reread this thread and if you're brave the helmet thread , it's endemic in the cycling _commyunity_


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

Drago said:


> You, when it comes to other people's rights to their opinions.


As i have already stated on numerous ocassions within this thread

I have NO problem with people having an opinion.....i am forthright and forceful with my own on quite a lot of things

But dont judge people on making a choice.....its tantamount to bullying, which leads on to other things. 

If you cant accept that, then there in lies the problem....but its with you, not me


----------



## glasgowcyclist (8 Feb 2019)

pjd57 said:


> You've lost me now.



I think the confusion, at least mine, has arisen because you wrote:



pjd57 said:


> I don't see the attraction in it if you are old, ill or infirm



... when those circumstances are exactly what *would* make electric bikes attractive.

Maybe you could clarify why you feel elderly, ill or infirm people wouldn't find an e-bike attractive.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Feb 2019)

I think it is great that e bikes are getting sedentary people off the sofas and out of their cars.


----------



## pjd57 (8 Feb 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I think the confusion, at least mine, has arisen because you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right.
I meant I don't see the attraction if you are not .....


----------



## pjd57 (8 Feb 2019)

vickster said:


> In what?? E-bikes? Why not?


My fault I missed " not "


----------



## gbb (8 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> Haha! So defensive! Why?
> I still hold that it's possible to go from a 2 b with hardly any effort, certainly not enough to be considered a workout. Remember - I'm a fan of ebikes, I'm in the market for one. I'm not considering one for exercise, though.


You can go from A 2 B with hardly any effort...but you can on a normal bike too.
The less effort you put in on an ebike, the less you get out of it .
On my commute of 14 miles, I can take it really easy, and it will plod along at say 12 mph if I use a particularly low cadence. The minute I up the cadence...and effort, up goes the speed .
I can arrive fresh or sweaty, depends on the effort I put in....same as a normal bike.
I will arrive a lot fresher, but it's certainly not a free ride on an ebike.


----------



## dodgy (8 Feb 2019)

Yeah, I realise all that. Like I said earlier in the thread, I actually like ebikes.


----------



## dodgy (8 Feb 2019)

Choosing to ride an ebike is a bit like opting to use the travellator in airports when you could walk if you were able.


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> Choosing to ride an ebike is a bit like opting to use the travellator in airports when you could walk if you were able.


And he who choose’s whichever way, does so without judgement in my eyes.........as it’s their choice


----------



## dodgy (8 Feb 2019)

When riding to work, i pass through a housing estate about 1.5 miles from the office, I see people getting in their cars that I know are driving to the same office. 
I judge them


----------



## Ming the Merciless (8 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Nah....same as fitting any other bike



What is it like turboing on your ebike?


----------



## jowwy (8 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> What is it like turboing on your ebike?


Not got a clue.......


----------



## Phil Fouracre (9 Feb 2019)

Is this thread still going? 
We’ve got four, and they’re absolutely the dogs ........! Love every minute of riding, and, do I care? You guess....


----------



## Smokin Joe (9 Feb 2019)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Is this thread still going?
> We’ve got four, and they’re absolutely the dogs ........! Love every minute of riding, and, do I care? You guess....


Most sensible post yet.


----------



## jowwy (9 Feb 2019)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Is this thread still going?
> We’ve got four, and they’re absolutely the dogs ........! Love every minute of riding, and, do I care? You guess....


What you got phil??


----------



## Phil Fouracre (9 Feb 2019)

First off, bought a BH Emotion following a spectacular paragliding accident, mainly for physio. Already had a couple of Thorn Raven Tours with Rholhoff hubs, so fitted Cyclotricity front wheel kits, nice handling, as, in effect, ‘two wheel drive’! Liked them so much I sold the BH. Wanting more comfort (back suffering as distances got longer) moved on then to buying two Giant Stance full suss MTBs, converted them with rear wheel kits, and bullet proof tyres (Schwalbe M+) so, ended up with bikes for ‘every occasion’, hence my comment


----------



## User66445 (10 Feb 2019)

Not a major fan of e-bikes, but then many have them for legitimate reasons. My neighbour, for example, bought his so he could keep up with his son and daughter, he being on the wrong side of 65 and they being only just within sight of 40. That the three of them live in a country not known for its rolling hills, Switzerland, might also explain his decision.

I also find them a lot less offensive than those blasted scooters and power board things that currently pollute Paris. Wouldn't mind, but they shouldn't be allowed on the pavements, which they appear to be there.


----------



## Smokin Joe (10 Feb 2019)

avole said:


> Not a major fan of e-bikes, but then many have them for legitimate reasons.


You need a "Legitimate reason" for owning an E bike? Perhaps there should be some sort of assessment you go through before they let you have one.

Or maybe the fact that you want one and it is nobody else's business what you ride could be reason enough?


----------



## Ming the Merciless (10 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Not got a clue.......



Ah thought by the way you responded to that post that you use your e bike on the turbo.


----------



## youngoldbloke (10 Feb 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> You need a "Legitimate reason" for owning an E bike? Perhaps there should be some sort of assessment you go through before they let you have one.
> 
> Or maybe the fact that you want one and it is nobody else's business what you ride could be reason enough?


Yes - maybe they should be prescription only?


----------



## jowwy (10 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Ah thought by the way you responded to that post that you use your e bike on the turbo.


I suppose you could with the motor switched off, then it’s just a normal bike


----------



## jowwy (10 Feb 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Yes - maybe they should be prescription only?


 Maybe we should all have a PIP assessment done and you can only ride one if your on high level for mobility


----------



## dodgy (10 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Maybe we should all have a PIP assessment done and you can only ride one if your on high level for mobility


Well it works for mobility scooters.


----------



## jowwy (10 Feb 2019)

dodgy said:


> Well it works for mobility scooters.


Nope.....anybody can buy one if you have the cash


----------



## frankiemann93 (11 Feb 2019)

For me, it counts as cheating, unless the person is struggling with injury or unable to cycle properly in general. The modern person wants everything to be as easy and simple as possible as well, where as I see more benefits to cycling, rather than using an e-cycle.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (11 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Nope.....anybody can buy one if you have the cash



What mobility scooter do you have?


----------



## jowwy (11 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> What mobility scooter do you have?


i don't have one of those either....but my partner has mobility issues and with the right amount of cash they can be bought just like a you can buy a car......

to many assumptions being made here i think from some members


----------



## Johnno260 (11 Feb 2019)

I don't see the issue, they're great for people who are getting older but want to continue to cycle, or people with injuries.

People who want to commute but have a little help when needed as well.


----------



## dan_bo (11 Feb 2019)

None of my business on a day to day basis- I'm happy if people are getting about on them. They're a pain in the arse when someone's up your backside on one at a trail centre though.


----------



## TheDoctor (11 Feb 2019)

dan_bo said:


> *a pain in the arse when someone's up your backside *on one at a trail centre though.



Pfffft! I really ought to grow up...


----------



## glasgowcyclist (11 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> For me, it counts as cheating



Who might be being cheated here, and out of what?


----------



## frankiemann93 (12 Feb 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Who might be being cheated here, and out of what?


The price tends to be pretty high for the average cycling fan, so your bank account might feel cheated. Plus has it got the reliability features of a regular cycle? Added weight with the battery to, usually only good for between 20-40 miles, I think. I know you can manually cycle but for me, it isn't the same.


----------



## jowwy (12 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> The price tends to be pretty high for the average cycling fan, so your bank account might feel cheated. Plus has it got the reliability features of a regular cycle? Added weight with the battery to, usually only good for between 20-40 miles, I think. I know you can manually cycle but for me, it isn't the same.


I got 48 out of mine with 2 bars out of 5 left........every bike can breakdown.

As for cheating the bank account....thats the stupidest comment i have ever read about having an ebike


----------



## glasgowcyclist (12 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> The price tends to be pretty high for the average cycling fan, so your bank account might feel cheated



That wasn't the context in which you wrote your original cheating comment. It's disingenuous to pretend you were referring to affordability.


----------



## gaijintendo (12 Feb 2019)

I just saw this advert for a Ribble SLe, what a lovely thing.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...turns-e-bike-keep-riding-health-scares-407370

Cycling Weekly? Cycling WEAKLY more like!

Forgive my joking. I don't know why I do, because the symptoms he is listing are making my hypochondion twinge... and I haven't had a prestigious career of trying hard to give me cause for concern.


----------



## Foghat (12 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> As for cheating the bank account....thats the stupidest comment i have ever read about having an ebike



Quite. But then assertions that e-bikes in non-race situations constitute 'cheating' are a similar level of wilful idiocy to that exhibited by flat earth believers.

Curious that 42 poll respondents out of 219 (as things currently stand) appear to be professing to be that idiotic...….


----------



## fossyant (12 Feb 2019)

This guy is cheating - very much so.

Blooming lazy World DH Champ.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=l99Md7wNoAg


----------



## FishFright (12 Feb 2019)

Foghat said:


> Quite. But then assertions that e-bikes in non-race situations constitute 'cheating' are a similar level of wilful idiocy to that exhibited by flat earth believers.
> 
> Curious that 42 poll respondents out of 219 (as things currently stand) appear to be professing to be that idiotic...….



Such people love to join in


----------



## HLaB (13 Feb 2019)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...turns-e-bike-keep-riding-health-scares-407370

I suppose if returned to the TdF it might be cheating but I call it great


----------



## Pat "5mph" (13 Feb 2019)

*Mod Note:*
Some posts have been deleted, being personal attacks/insults towards other forum members.
Please keep it civil, thanks.


----------



## rivers (13 Feb 2019)

My wife is a 35 year old fitness instructor, and teaches 22 (i think) classes a week. And she rides an e-bike, and uses it to commute to a majority of her classes. Something she wouldn't be able to do on a normal bike. Her body just can't take it without a little bit of assist (or a lot on the hills). And it allows us to go out for all day rides together when the weather is nice. Depending on the amount of assist she's using, she gets anywhere from 50-60 miles per charge.


----------



## frankiemann93 (13 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> I got 48 out of mine with 2 bars out of 5 left........every bike can breakdown.
> 
> As for cheating the bank account....thats the stupidest comment i have ever read about having an ebike


Each to their own, everyone has a different opinion! Expense is an issue for me, not sure what the ride to work scheme would be like with it,maybe make it more worth while? Even still, better to stick to a basic cycle,with no electronic assist's in my opinion.


----------



## frankiemann93 (13 Feb 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That wasn't the context in which you wrote your original cheating comment. It's disingenuous to pretend you were referring to affordability.


Affordability is surely an issue to others as well as myself? If you own the bike for a year plus, haven't got a warranty after the first 12 months and the battery brakes, chances are you will need to buy a new one? So more expense. I find regular cycles are pretty good on breakdowns . The electric motor makes it easier and the cyclist should be going at a faster pace, so you have to scale up,do more miles, improve averages.


----------



## roadrash (13 Feb 2019)

@frankiemann93 , you say

The electric motor makes it easier and the cyclist should be going at a faster pace, so you have to scale up,do more miles, improve averages. 

can you explain why "YOU HAVE TO " why cant an ebiker do whatever mileage they please


----------



## glasgowcyclist (13 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> Affordability is surely an issue



That's a red herring you've introduced to deflect from your original cheating comment.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2019)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists


----------



## Mike_P (13 Feb 2019)

roadrash said:


> @frankiemann93 , you say
> 
> The electric motor makes it easier and the cyclist should be going at a faster pace, so you have to scale up,do more miles, improve averages.
> 
> can you explain why "YOU HAVE TO " why cant an ebiker do whatever mileage they please


Agree - having ebiked a hybrid that is largely for use in and around town so I can clamber up the hills for work / shopping , while any longer cycling rides will be by traditional pedal power. It has had a instant effect in that some shopping trips previously done by car have now been done by ebike so overall cycling mileage will increase as a result and the cost of the ebike conversion set against the savings in petrol etc.


----------



## burntoutbanger (13 Feb 2019)

The only way you can cheat with an e-bike is if you're using it in an event where they are strictly prohibited.
Commuting, utility rides, leisure, fitness are all fair game in my opinion. 
As has been said above it is a form of transportation, far better an e-bike than a car.


----------



## frankiemann93 (14 Feb 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> That's a red herring you've introduced to deflect from your original cheating comment.


Can look at it as a red herring but bottom line for me is that, it counts as cheating. Personally I wouldn't opt to use one,not a fan of electric bikes or cars. . Would rather use. No ,i'm not baiting.


----------



## jowwy (14 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists


this part of the statement alone would make me question whether this is true

_A quarter of the cyclists were on e-bikes, which have an integrated electric motor to propel cycles to speeds of around 20mph._

EU regulations, to which i believe the Netherlands would be part of only allow ebikes to have motors with speeds upto 15.5mph....if they cant get that right in their statement, how do we know or prove the rest is right


----------



## frankiemann93 (14 Feb 2019)

roadrash said:


> @frankiemann93 , you say
> 
> The electric motor makes it easier and the cyclist should be going at a faster pace, so you have to scale up,do more miles, improve averages.
> 
> can you explain why "YOU HAVE TO " why cant an ebiker do whatever mileage they please


Mean it in a proportion way, anyone can do what they want. For me, if a person does 30 miles on a regular push bike,then you should look to do an extra 10 miles on it,as an example. I get everyone differs, the whole point of this topic is to gain opinions and look at it from different ways. That's mine.


----------



## jowwy (14 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> Can look at it as a red herring but bottom line for me is that, it counts as cheating. Personally I wouldn't opt to use one,not a fan of electric bikes or cars. . Would rather use. No ,i'm not baiting.


cheating at WHAT?? your still deflecting the answer to the question......


----------



## jowwy (14 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> the whole point of this topic is to gain opinions and look at it from different ways. That's mine.



no - the point of the topic is as stated " are electrically assisted bikes, cheating"

nothing about mileage, cost.......


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Feb 2019)

frankiemann93 said:


> it counts as cheating.



Which takes us back to my question: who is being cheated and out of what?


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> this part of the statement alone would make me question whether this is true
> 
> _A quarter of the cyclists were on e-bikes, which have an integrated electric motor to propel cycles to speeds of around 20mph._
> 
> EU regulations, to which i believe the Netherlands would be part of only allow ebikes to have motors with speeds upto 15.5mph....



I suspect they've mistaken 20kph for 20mph.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (14 Feb 2019)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cnPZSM85j8


----------



## Milkfloat (14 Feb 2019)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I suspect they've mistaken 20kph for 20mph.



But that is only about 12.4 mph


----------



## Ming the Merciless (14 Feb 2019)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...turns-e-bike-keep-riding-health-scares-407370


----------



## youngoldbloke (14 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...turns-e-bike-keep-riding-health-scares-407370


Is he cheating, frankiemann93?


----------



## cuberider (14 Feb 2019)

I've previously not been a fan of e-bikes, but after a recent health scare, Im thinking of getting one as it may be the only way to keep cycling. If that makes me a cheat then so be it.


----------



## glasgowcyclist (14 Feb 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> But that is only about 12.4 mph


----------



## downesy (14 Feb 2019)

I love my e bike l have rheumatism and my commute had dropped to 2/3 days a week, now it's back up to 5 it is a bloody godsend.
I still use my Dawes on on my weekend bimbles, but will never commute on it again , l can leave home later for work, and obvs arrive home sooner if that's cheating then call me Lance . 
More importantly it will ensure I can cycle for many more years , than was previously anticipated and that is purely down to the ebike.


----------



## HLaB (14 Feb 2019)

downesy said:


> I love my e bike l have rheumatism and my commute had dropped to 2/3 days a week, now it's back up to 5 it is a bloody godsend.
> I still use my Dawes on on my weekend bimbles, but will never commute on it again , l can leave home later for work, and obvs arrive home sooner if that's cheating then call me Lance .
> More importantly it will ensure I can cycle for many more years , than was previously anticipated and that is purely down to the ebike.


If you are entering races and keeping the motor secret then its cheating, if not I say its great


----------



## jowwy (15 Feb 2019)

I have been on this forum now nearly 9 years....as people are aware on here i have bought many bikes and spent more money on all types of components. up until last year i was regularly riding a pedaller and even undertook as a big guy a trip to the alpine region of France and enjoyed ( if you can say enjoyed) the climbing of such enormous alpine climbs. but since that trip in 2017 my knee and hamstring injuries started to get worse. the pain i was suffering when riding my bike was taking longer and longer to rescind. it was then after a conversation with my fiance of 14yr's, that we decided the best course of action was to purchase the said EMTB, which has helped me keep riding, helped me relieve stress, helps me keep commuting, keeps some of the lard off and i can now enjoy the riding of said bike totally pain free........if that's what people want to call cheating, then crack on, i really do not care what others think. the only thing i care about is staying as healthy as i can and to look after my ill and disabled partner to the best of my ability.

E bikes are only going to get better, lighter and more mainstream...you can either go with the flow or fight it in all directions and call it whatever you want. but what you won't do is stop people riding what they want and enjoying the freedom of the bicycle, whether it be by the Power of E or by the power of one's legs...

we live once on this planet, enjoy it whatever way you can and don't let anyone judge you for the decisions that best suit you and not their own rhetoric.


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## Scaleyback (24 Feb 2019)

I am a ‘new boy’ around here and I think I will add my thoughts.
I am 72, 5’9 and 70 kg and disgustingly fit for my age. (Long may
It last)
I live on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales and have
cycled close to 10,000 miles over the last 2 years. There are hardly any
flat routes around here. I can and do cycle 30+ miles and climb the odd 
15% hill comfortably. I have had an article written about me on the Zwift forum and an appearance on local ITV news because of what I do and the age I do it.
Sorry, if this is coming across as a ego trip but the point is I am taking 
delivery of a ‘pedal assisted bike’ (an Orbea Gain) this week. Why ? 
Well I do not ‘need one’ (using the criteria of some posters here) but 
I want one. I ride alone so no ‘oneupmanship’ involved.
It will give me the freedom to plan longer rides and not care
how many 15% climbs are included. I shall not be giving up my other 
(currently two) unassisted bikes. 
No exercise is ‘bad exercise’ I fail to understand how anyone can condem
another for their choice of bike. Live and let live.
Apologies, I talk to much.


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## SpokeyDokey (25 Feb 2019)

*Mod note:*

I've deleted the relationship orientated posts so that the thread remains on topic.

If I've missed any please let me know via the Contact Us function - ta.


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## randynewmanscat (17 Oct 2019)

Ah this ones close to my heart! I started a thread which turned out to be quite contentious after a visit by an unrestricted ebike and its owner last autumn. I took a spin on his bike this year and clocked it at 27mph over a measured 440 yards (yes I live in France but my personal drag strip is measured in yards).
If he bothered to pedal I would say "what cheating"? The fact that he only uses the pedals as foot rests says cheating. Anyway I took him out for an explore of my part of the forest. I selected this bike from my collection .


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## dodgy (17 Oct 2019)

Did you miss the rest of your post off?


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## welsh dragon (17 Oct 2019)

I thought we had gone past all this " is it cheating crap" some time ago . Oh well


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## randynewmanscat (17 Oct 2019)

dodgy said:


> Did you miss the rest of your post off?


No. There was no half wheeling on the occasion of the 300W ebike accompanied by the 44KW noisier bike. I had a another cycling visitor staying, they know each other. He said to me, "I'm f***** if I'm going out with him if he can't at least pretend he's pedalling. Without linking to my previous contentious thread I should state that the freewheeling friend on his ebike is quite able bodied. In the contentious thread I said just the same thing as my other visitor regarding turning the crank, even if only half heartedly.
Edit for context and correction: Likely more than 400W motor.


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## gbb (18 Oct 2019)

cuberider said:


> I've previously not been a fan of e-bikes, but after a recent health scare, Im thinking of getting one as it may be the only way to keep cycling. If that makes me a cheat then so be it.


It doesn't make you a cheat , it just means you're finding another way to remain a cyclist, better that than perhaps throwing the towel in earlier than you have to.
And even then....no excuse needed (a general statement, not specific to cuberiders post)...if someone doesn't like it (ebikes)....tough


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