# West Mercia Police take no action on close pass



## kingrollo (22 Jun 2018)

West Mercia Police Ref BD18-232

Look out for the white car in the video below (the blue car is left in for comparison) - this was reported in good time to west mercia police - and whilst they contacted the driver they decided to take no further action. Had it happened a few miles down the road I know west midlands police would have prosecuted the driver - It would seem West Mercia Police are soft on close passes


View: https://youtu.be/3_pmV70OZmI


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## steveindenmark (22 Jun 2018)

I find it hard to judge, but I would not call it excessively close by what we are looking at. It may have seemed closer to you on the bike. I can see why they would not take any further action.

I do see some of these that are heart stoppingly close. But this just is not one of them in my opinion.


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## Drago (22 Jun 2018)

West Farcia, as they're known to officers for other parts of the country.


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## the snail (23 Jun 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> I find it hard to judge, but I would not call it excessively close by what we are looking at. It may have seemed closer to you on the bike. I can see why they would not take any further action.
> 
> I do see some of these that are heart stoppingly close. But this just is not one of them in my opinion.


Looks like 1/2 metre gap at most, probably less to me. Way too close, nowhere near highway code standard, or 1.5m guideline. Should be points on license, or a talking to/warning as a minimum. As long as the police share your attitude I suppose we'll have to put up with this lazy crap driving though.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2018)

When you say they 'contacted' the driver I assume that means they had a word about the poor standard of driving, I'd be very surprised if any police force did more than that based on the available evidence, I'd be surprised if Hampshire police took any notice at all.


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## User6179 (23 Jun 2018)

Looks to me the car mirror was at most a foot away, the trouble is because the camera sits in the middle of the bars it always does not look as bad to anyone looking at the film , I have seen similar where the rider is clipped by a wing mirror but it appears on the video like the car is a few feet away.


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## kingrollo (23 Jun 2018)

Dave Davenport said:


> When you say they 'contacted' the driver I assume that means they had a word about the poor standard of driving, I'd be very surprised if any police force did more than that based on the available evidence, I'd be surprised if Hampshire police took any notice at all.



Sorry but thats not true. West Midlands pleased have prosecuted 4 drivers that I have submitted footage. the least they get is £145 driver awareness course. Standard is £100 fine and 3pt on license. Passing distances were comparable to the one I have linked above.


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## kingrollo (23 Jun 2018)

Dave Davenport said:


> When you say they 'contacted' the driver I assume that means they had a word about the poor standard of driving, I'd be very surprised if any police force did more than that based on the available evidence, I'd be surprised if Hampshire police took any notice at all.



If you look at the blue car at the start of the clip - compare the distances given as a bit of perspective.


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## Dave Davenport (23 Jun 2018)

kingrollo said:


> Sorry but thats not true. West Midlands pleased have prosecuted 4 drivers that I have submitted footage. the least they get is £145 driver awareness course. Standard is £100 fine and 3pt on license. Passing distances were comparable to the one I have linked above.


Fair enough, but sadly I reckon West Mids are probably a rare exception to the rule.


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## steveindenmark (23 Jun 2018)

the snail said:


> Looks like 1/2 metre gap at most, probably less to me. Way too close, nowhere near highway code standard, or 1.5m guideline. Should be points on license, or a talking to/warning as a minimum. As long as the police share your attitude I suppose we'll have to put up with this lazy crap driving though.


Its not an "attitude". Its an opinion. To me it doesnt look too close. I think all close passes should be prosecuted. But Im not going to say I think it looks close just to suit you.


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## Biff600 (23 Jun 2018)

Doesn't look close to me either, I had a bus brush my arm the other week....now that was close !!


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## dave r (23 Jun 2018)

That was too close, the blue car at the start of the clip was to the right of the centre line, the driver of the white car barely got the offside wheels across the centre line and was already pulling in to avoid the oncoming car before they finished the pass, it looks like the driver misjudged the overtake slightly.


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## DaveReading (23 Jun 2018)

dave r said:


> That was too close, the blue car at the start of the clip was to the right of the centre line, the driver of the white car barely got the offside wheels across the centre line and was already pulling in to avoid the oncoming car before they finished the pass, it looks like the driver misjudged the overtake slightly.



This isn't intended as a criticism, but it's sometime a good idea on a narrowish road to take a strong primary position whenever there is a stream of vehicles coming in the opposite direction so that nobody behind you is tempted to do an unsafe overtake.


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## dave r (23 Jun 2018)

DaveReading said:


> This isn't intended as a criticism, but it's sometime a good idea on a narrowish road to take a strong primary position whenever there is a stream of vehicles coming in the opposite direction so that nobody behind you is tempted to do an unsafe overtake.



Thats something I've been doing for years.


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## glasgowcyclist (23 Jun 2018)

Far too close to be considered safe driving. You were left with no room to avoid anything unseen by the driver, particularly with the speed differential.

One small twitch of his wheel to the left for a pothole or to give more room to the oncoming car and you'd have been toast.

Shame on West Mercia for not prosecuting.


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## alicat (23 Jun 2018)

At least West Mids are doing the right thing. Let's hope their influence spreads to neighbouring constabularies.


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## RichK (23 Jun 2018)

How did you contact WMP? I've looked on their website & the only links there just go to the same page which says how good they are for instigating the close pass initiative.


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## kingrollo (25 Jun 2018)

RichK said:


> How did you contact WMP? I've looked on their website & the only links there just go to the same page which says how good they are for instigating the close pass initiative.



West Midlands Police :-
cj_tpo_drivingstandards@west-midlands.pnn.police.uk


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## Phaeton (25 Jun 2018)

Problem with a lot of these films is all the unknowns, the focal length of the camera, the width of the road, the width of the vehicle, etc. etc. to me the pass wasn't nice & polite, it was close, but not dangerously close, but we're only seeing a portion of it. The only way to get a true view would be if cyclist started having the cameras on a pole & the camera pointing straight down, with a none fish eyed lense. Then you would actually see the gap, or cyclists are going to have to have drones flying directly above them.


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## Arjimlad (25 Jun 2018)

Pausing the video shows the car about 1m away from the edge of the road. Too close IMHO. My local force send out NIPs for this.


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## Phaeton (25 Jun 2018)

At this point it's not nice





Then 1 second later he/she is inside the white line





As said not nice & not polite, but dangerous, not sure, because of the curved camera lense it's not possible to take accurate measurements.


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## fossyant (25 Jun 2018)

GMP don't prosecute drivers that threaten cyclists, or actually hit them.


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## slowmotion (25 Jun 2018)

In commuting traffic, I'd say that's pretty much par for the course, but at speed, it's way too close.


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## classic33 (25 Jun 2018)

Phaeton said:


> At this point it's not nice
> View attachment 416253
> 
> Then 1 second later he/she is inside the white line
> ...


I'd say sixteen inches, maximum, between the car and the riders right elbow.

Using the surface markings visible.


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## glasgowcyclist (25 Jun 2018)

Phaeton said:


> At this point it's not nice
> View attachment 416253
> 
> Then 1 second later he/she is inside the white line
> ...



Do you know that the Fly12 has tram lines set at 1.5m and 1.0m that you can superimpose on your clip?


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## kingrollo (25 Jun 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> Do you know that the Fly12 has tram lines set at 1.5m and 1.0m that you can superimpose on your clip?



Yes - but I can only do that if I use that stupid app - if I could do it on a desktop app I would.


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## Drago (26 Jun 2018)

Don't panic! All is saved!!! There have been 3 murders in 4 days in our county, but it's going to be alright - tomorrow the Chief Freemason is going to raise a Rainbow flag up the pole at headquarters. Clearly he's solved all crime and sorted the close pass problem, and now has the time to spend of irrelevant trivialities.


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## classic33 (26 Jun 2018)

Drago said:


> Don't panic! All is saved!!! There have been 3 murders in 4 days in our county, but it's going to be alright - tomorrow the Chief Freemason is going to raise a Rainbow flag up the pole at headquarters. Clearly he's solved all crime and sorted the close pass problem, and now has the time to spend of irrelevant trivialities.


Often thought it might be better sticking them up the flag poles.


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## Drago (26 Jun 2018)

See, I can't see why Geoffrey, Zippy, George and Bungle need to be celebrated in that way. A great show for sure, but on a police flag pole...?


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## Pumpkin the robot (1 Jul 2018)

fossyant said:


> GMP don't prosecute drivers that threaten cyclists, or actually hit them.


I have had 4 drivers prosecuted for close passes by GMP this year.


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## Phaeton (1 Jul 2018)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> I have had 4 drivers prosecuted for close passes by GMP this year.


Do you have the video evidence so we can compare?


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## keithmac (1 Jul 2018)

I need to get a helmet cam, where the car brushes your elbow on the way past it would be worth a report.

I think at speed the original pass was far too close, just eye up the car in relation to the centre lines of the road..


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## si_c (2 Jul 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> Its not an "attitude". Its an opinion. To me it doesnt look too close. I think all close passes should be prosecuted. But Im not going to say I think it looks close just to suit you.



You have to account for the wide-angle lens on action cameras, the rider is slightly over to the left, looking at the road surface, the front wheel is on the left edge of the smoother part of the tarmac. The left edge of the drivers front wheel is on the left edge of the centre line of the road, that leaves no more than six inches between the wing mirror and the cyclists elbow.

I'd love to know what world you live in as there are no circumstances where that can be considered anything other than unacceptably close.


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## Drago (2 Jul 2018)

To prevent close passes I have affixed a broom handle to my bike, which points into the traffic flow by 5 feet. I then tied a rusty wire brush to the end.


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

Drago said:


> To prevent close passes I have affixed a broom handle to my bike, which points into the traffic flow by 5 feet. I then tied a rusty wire brush to the end.


I tried that but found drivers didn't like it when I smashed their rear lights when I started filtering


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

si_c said:


> I'd love to know what world you live in as there are no circumstances where that can be considered anything other than unacceptably close.


Maybe the real world?


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## steveindenmark (2 Jul 2018)

I'd love to know what world you live in as there are no circumstances where that can be considered anything other than unacceptably close.[/QUOTE]

I ride a lot of mileage in the year. Maybe I am a bit thick skinned to what some would call a close pass.


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Jul 2018)

For anyone who feels the pass wasn't unsafe or worthy of police action, here's the amount of space police involved in #OperationClosePass are enforcing.
Compare that gap with what the OP experienced.


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

So you are all for stopping all cyclists filtering then?


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> So you are all for stopping all cyclists filtering then?



I know you're not that daft to believe there's an equivalence there.


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> I know you're not that daft to believe there's an equivalence there.


There is, if a car driver has to leave that much room, then how can a cyclist enter an area of less width?


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## Milkfloat (2 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> There is, if a car driver has to leave that much room, then how can a cyclist enter an area of less width?



1.) If the cyclist is filtering, then they are doing it at a low speed
2.) If the cyclist is filtering, then it it their choice as to how much danger they put themselves into.


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

But you can't have it both ways, either the cars cannot be within 1.5M or they can, not ah well if it suits us we can go to within 50mm of a car


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> There is, if a car driver has to leave that much room, then how can a cyclist enter an area of less width?



KE = ½ mv²


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

Kinetic energy has nothing to do with it, you cannot have grey areas, you have to have black & white rules, if you are saying it's acceptable for a bike to enter a 0.5M gap by filtering, but then what happens if the traffic ahead moves, the car cannot then proceed until that gap is then 1.5M?


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## glasgowcyclist (2 Jul 2018)

The differential in kinetic energy is the whole point.

Try running between parked cars at a supermarket.
Now walking along the lane line of a 30mph road with your back to traffic.


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

Let's agree to differ, but it wasn't a nice pass, but it wasn't dangerous either (although there was no need to get that close), the Police had a word with the driver, hopefully if they are caught doing ti again something will happen. 

But making it law that drivers MUST leave 1.5M will ruin my rides, I go down roads where it would be impossible to give that much space. Which means I would be pulling over to let cars through, I don't want to have to stop nor do I want them to have to bumble along at 8mph for miles following me.


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## kingrollo (2 Jul 2018)

I have had another one rejected* by west Mercia - they spoke to the driver about the manner of his driving but decided that prosecution

"Was not in the public interest" 

I have no idea what that means ?


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

kingrollo said:


> "Was not in the public interest"


He has better friends in higher places than you do


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## keithmac (2 Jul 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> For anyone who feels the pass wasn't unsafe or worthy of police action, here's the amount of space police involved in #OperationClosePass are enforcing.
> Compare that gap with what the OP experienced.
> 
> View attachment 417372



I have had a handfull of people giving me that much room and I always give them the thumbs up.


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## kingrollo (2 Jul 2018)

FOI request submitted to west Mercia police asking how many drivers they have prosecuted for close passes


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## Phaeton (2 Jul 2018)

Do you not also need to know how many have been reported to make the reply worthy?


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## Drago (2 Jul 2018)

And you need to clarify the area, as operationally West Farcia and Warwickshire are one and the same. It's only the senior management and branding that differ.


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## kingrollo (2 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Do you not also need to know how many have been reported to make the reply worthy?



I suspect the answer will be zero - so I have left it to them to quantify it as a % if they wish.

I have also asked for clarification of how they handle the submissions - as it would seem they contact the vehicle owner (to confirm who was driving) without providing them with a still image so the driver has no idea what they have done. But the time they have confirmed who the driver it would be too late to issue the prosecution notice. I am fully prepared to admit I have the bit wrong - but the letter I received via the police from driver suggests this is the MO 

Different to west mids who issue a prosecution notice - along with a still image and a brief explanation - the owner then confirms who was driving - and the gets either a fine or has to book on a course.


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## glasgowcyclist (3 Jul 2018)

Phaeton said:


> Let's agree to differ



No thanks. Given that the enforcement of a safe space between motorised transport and people on bicycles is based upon an established law of physics, I won't agree to differ.


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## classic33 (4 Jul 2018)

kingrollo said:


> I suspect the answer will be zero - so I have left it to them to quantify it as a % if they wish.
> 
> I have also asked for clarification of how they handle the submissions - as it would seem they contact the vehicle owner (to confirm who was driving) without providing them with a still image so the driver has no idea what they have done. But the time they have confirmed who the driver it would be too late to issue the prosecution notice. I am fully prepared to admit I have the bit wrong - but the letter I received via the police from driver suggests this is the MO
> 
> Different to west mids who issue a prosecution notice - along with a still image and a brief explanation - the owner then confirms who was driving - and the gets either a fine or has to book on a course.



If enough people post close pass videos to them it'll make them harder to ignore.


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## slowmotion (4 Jul 2018)

kingrollo said:


> I have had another one rejected* by west Mercia - they spoke to the driver about the manner of his driving but decided that prosecution
> 
> "Was not in the public interest"
> 
> I have no idea what that means ?


Yes. " We just can't be arsed ".


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## kingrollo (17 Aug 2018)

kingrollo said:


> FOI request submitted to west Mercia police asking how many drivers they have prosecuted for close passes



So guess what ? - West Mercia didn't receive my FOI request asking how many motorists they had prosecuted for close passes. But now I have involved the local MP - and guess what they have received his letter ! 
Should get the FOI information soon


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## DaveReading (17 Aug 2018)

glasgowcyclist said:


> The differential in kinetic energy is the whole point.



No, it's not the whole point.

Yes, of course the safe passing distance varies with the difference in speed between the passer and the passed.

But good luck trying to frame an enforceable law that incorporates that provision in the real world.


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Aug 2018)

DaveReading said:


> No, it's not the whole point.



Why isn't it?



DaveReading said:


> But good luck trying to frame an enforceable law that incorporates that provision in the real world.



I'm not trying to.


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