# Cav ** May contain spoilers **



## rich p (1 Apr 2016)

Nothing really, but just to register my disappointment that he's 'sacrificing' another season, after a couple of difficult years, to try to win a bronze medal at th e Olympics. He may, of course, win gold but I think that's a long shot and he's not even sure of selection yet.
I'd like to have seen him either slugging it out with Kittel, Ewan, Greipel etc or becoming a rider who could do well in the classics.
I regard the Olympics as waste of his talent although I'm aware that he thinks he has unfinished business.
Thomas gave up a year for the last Olympics even though he already had gold medals which irked me too. I realise they may have a different view but I'd get more of a kick out of them winning P-R than an Olympic medal.


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## martint235 (1 Apr 2016)

2008 is probably still irking him to be fair. I known I'd still be p'd off.


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## oldroadman (1 Apr 2016)

All the people who have won Olympic medals seem to have come through the GB Cycling Team system, run by BC. So they will feel a loyalty to that. Plus, as I understand it, BC get a lot of funding from public bodies, and I suspect some of them have hardly even heard of Paris-Roubaix or anything else other than TdF. So Olympic medals must be a focus, and probably the bulk of the money is tied to medals once every four years. Which seems daft, but that's how the world outside view most sports except the old "traditionals" (e.g. footy, cricket, rugby) who don't do much or even appear at Olympic level. But that's how it goes, sometimes you have to follow the money. All that said I can understand Cav, the only top level GB Olympics rider from without a medal and his desire to put that right. Correct he's not even selected yet, but he always seems to deliver when it matters. Wouldn't be a surprise to see him in the omnium at Rio. What we really need is to have the Madison back.....


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## rich p (1 Apr 2016)

oldroadman said:


> What we really need is to have the Madison back.....


I agree with that!
Surely the money can't be his motivation though. It's not as if he's Jon Dibben or someone needing to raise their profile. Losing a year of a relatively short career seems perverse to me when there is so much uncertainty that he'll get selected or even medal. (verbal noun, dontcha know!)


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## Crackle (1 Apr 2016)

He's not the obvious choice is he. If he wasn't Cav I don't think he'd get selected on his results at the worlds, that other young fella, name forgotten temporarily, did a few cracking rides and can pursuit as well.

I thought he might do well on the road this year, pressure off with Dimension Data, certainly had a good start. A few more big wins would cement his position as one of the greatest sprinters of all time (which I know he already is).

I can understand it though. so many of his peers are all Olympians as well.


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## oldroadman (2 Apr 2016)

Crackle said:


> He's not the obvious choice is he. If he wasn't Cav I don't think he'd get selected on his results at the worlds, that other young fella, name forgotten temporarily, did a few cracking rides and can pursuit as well.
> 
> I thought he might do well on the road this year, pressure off with Dimension Data, certainly had a good start. A few more big wins would cement his position as one of the greatest sprinters of all time (which I know he already is).
> 
> I can understand it though. so many of his peers are all Olympians as well.


He is an Olympian already, but the only one of his peers without a medal. Which is what he wants to get if at all possible.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (2 Apr 2016)

I am fairly sure I saw something today saying he was riding Paris-Roubaix.

edit - here you go:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/mark-cavendish-race-paris-roubaix-219328


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## rich p (22 Jun 2016)

Cav all but confirmed as the Rio omnium man and the 5th team pursuiter. I don't think thyere was much competition once Dibben broke something?


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## fimm (22 Jun 2016)

Dibben broke something? I didn't know that. That's a shame.


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## Crackle (22 Jun 2016)

rich p said:


> Cav all but confirmed as the Rio omnium man and the 5th team pursuiter. I don't think thyere was much competition once Dibben broke something?


Are we looking for a large sum of money leaving Cav's account and ending up in some nefarious 'arrangers' account because I thought Dibben should have that place.


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## oldroadman (22 Jun 2016)

Crackle said:


> Are we looking for a large sum of money leaving Cav's account and ending up in some nefarious 'arrangers' account because I thought Dibben should have that place.


Possibly the funniest post this week so far.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Jun 2016)

Cavendish has been confirmed ... or is this old news? Anyway, it was news to me.

The other names are on the linked tweet, but it's an image so I can't cut and paste them .

https://twitter.com/BritishCycling/status/746338748175163397


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## resal (25 Jun 2016)

Andy Tennant was stuffed at London 2012 easily should have been used in one of the rounds. Is anyone saying Cav is faster than Tennant in the TP ? Not sure I have heard that anywhere.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ten...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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## Hacienda71 (25 Jun 2016)

Unfortunately I am not sure Tennant has ever reached his full potential. He has an outstanding ftp and was tipped to be the next Wiggins. If this is down to selection politics or performance on the day, I don't know but I would have liked to have seen him there.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (25 Jun 2016)

Politics in cycling? Surely not.


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## Louch (2 Jul 2016)

Aye that cavendish, wasting his talent on the track........


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## rich p (2 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Aye that cavendish, wasting his talent on the track........


As I've said on more than one occasion...
...WTF do I know!


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## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

I know conventional wisdom is thin for road, beefy for track, and the run in to the finish yesterday suited Cav, but I wonder whether the track training did just give him that extra bit of oomph needed?


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> I know conventional wisdom is thin for road, beefy for track, and the run in to the finish yesterday suited Cav, but I wonder whether the track training did just give him that extra bit of oomph needed?


Cav's never lacked in ooomph has he? He did seem to struggle with keeping his power from further out. Yesterday it seemed he can now let rip further out, maybe as a direct result of omnium training.


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## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2016)

I'd tend to go with Kittels analysis that "there's no shame in losing to cav,still one of the fastest sprinters on a bike "


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## Crackle (3 Jul 2016)

One of the interviews I read said Cav thought a long straight often encourages people to go too early as they can see the finishing banner from a long way out. So when Sagan went with 300 to go, he made the effort to get on his wheel and sit there until he could go himself in the right place. So still one of the canniest sprinters as well.


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## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider said:


> Cav's never lacked in ooomph has he? He did seem to struggle with keeping his power from further out. Yesterday it seemed he can now let rip further out, maybe as a direct result of omnium training.



No lack of oomph, true, but it's seemed in recent years he hasn't quite had enough to beat Kittel et al. As @Crackle says, a canny guy, which showed as DD worked themselves into place and Cav grabbed Sagan's wheel; but we've seen Cav just pipped in the final drag to the line, while yesterday he didn't look like losing. Of course, I've no idea where Kittel is form-wise...


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## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

Cav was beaten a tyre width, by Kittel, twice in one of the early season Middle East bore fests. So his early season form wasn't bad.
If the track has helped his end speed, will it have hindered his endurance deeper into the race?
I don't know the answer, as you'll already gathered!


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## Adam4868 (3 Jul 2016)

I very much doubt he'll do the whole 3 weeks,i guess he got what he went for yesterday and anything else is a bonus.


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## brommers (3 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Cav was beaten a tyre width, by Kittel, twice in one of the early season Middle East bore fests. So his early season form wasn't bad.


And the Scheldeprijs - with Greipel a couple of bike lengths behind.


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## Louch (3 Jul 2016)

Given his commitment to the Quebeka cause, he will be there to the 
Finish. He regrets quitting the tour in 2008 for the Olympics and can't see him doing it again


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## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> Cav was beaten a tyre width, by Kittel, twice in one of the early season Middle East bore fests. So his early season form wasn't bad. If the track has helped his end speed, will it have hindered his endurance deeper into the race? I don't know the answer, as you'll already gathered!





Louch said:


> Given his commitment to the Quebeka cause, he will be there to the
> Finish. He regrets quitting the tour in 2008 for the Olympics and can't see him doing it again



There seems to be a bit of inconsistency - he's been quoted before the race as saying he's not going to jeopardise the Olympics by completing the Tour, but I think after the finish yesterday he said he was going to do the whole race for his team mates and Qhubeka.

Bernie Eisel's been saying he thought Cav looked a bit weaker earlier in the year, but is very strong now and on top form.


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## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> There seems to be a bit of inconsistency - he's been quoted before the race as saying he's not going to jeopardise the Olympics by completing the Tour, but I think after the finish yesterday he said he was going to do the whole race for his team mates and Qhubeka.
> 
> Bernie Eisel's been saying he thought Cav looked a bit weaker earlier in the year, but is very strong now and on top form.


How long between the end of the tour and the omnium? I could Google but you may know!


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## Crackle (3 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> How long between the end of the tour and the omnium? I could Google but you may know!


Starts around the 11th, so 2 and a half weeks.


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## HF2300 (3 Jul 2016)

rich p said:


> How long between the end of the tour and the omnium? I could Google but you may know!



Track events start 11th, Team Pursuit 11th and 12th, Omnium 14th and 15th.


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## rich p (3 Jul 2016)

HF2300 said:


> Track events start 11th, Team Pursuit 11th and 12th, Omnium 14th and 15th.


Thanks. Too short to fully recover surely.


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## jarlrmai (3 Jul 2016)

Will he ride all the way to Paris? I would think that he would given what he says in interviews.


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## themosquitoking (3 Jul 2016)

I think he'd like to win in Paris again.


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## SWSteve (4 Jul 2016)

He did it again!


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## rich p (4 Jul 2016)

Funny how someone adding SPOILER to the title is a dead give-away!


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## Spinney (4 Jul 2016)

Actually I've only seen Saturday's stage, but I noticed that had been mentioned. It wasn't my intention to give anything away, honest! If he's just won again, I didn't know that until I read this thread, so not so much fun watching today's. I put Spoiler there to stop it happening for any other stages.


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## SWSteve (4 Jul 2016)

Sorry guys!


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## Louch (4 Jul 2016)

To be fair, if I didn't want a race spoiled, I'd not be going Into a part of a cycling forum dedicated to profesionsional road cycling......


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## Spinney (4 Jul 2016)

True - but it's forum etiquette to put 'spoilers' in the title.

Anyway, back to Cav. He's the only one I've seen who has his sprogs on the podium. Has anyone else done this?


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## SWSteve (5 Jul 2016)

Spinney said:


> True - but it's forum etiquette to put 'spoilers' in the title.
> 
> Anyway, back to Cav. He's the only one I've seen who has his sprogs on the podium. Has anyone else done this?



A quick Google shows Gerrans taking kids up when he took pink at the Giro, and Lance also did it


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## Venod (5 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> To be fair, if I didn't want a race spoiled, I'd not be going Into a part of a cycling forum dedicated to profesionsional road cycling......



Unfortunatley you don't have to go into specific parts of the forum to see new posts titles. I never search out specific forum sub sections I just click the new post button.


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## Spinney (5 Jul 2016)

Afnug said:


> Unfortunatley you don't have to go into specific parts of the forum to see new posts titles. I never search out specific forum sub sections I just click the new post button.


Agreed. This is a bit off-topic for this thread, but ^^ this is why people should not post thread titles such as 'Cav wins again!' (not that anyone did this time).


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## suzeworld (5 Jul 2016)

This thread has been here since April, so it is not really about spoiling anything on a daily basis -- but it MAYBE it will have spoilers in 

- two years ago a thread like this would have been about him falling off in Harrogate and NOT winning the yellow .. which was so sad! 

I am beyond delighted that he has come back to fighting form and maybe he will trump Merxx stage wins record yet?


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## suzeworld (5 Jul 2016)

re sprogs on podium, we used to see it a lot, I think.


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## martint235 (5 Jul 2016)

The different views were interesting yesterday. Greipel felt that he changed gear and that cost him the stage, if he'd stayed in the gear he was in he felt he'd have clinched it. Cav felt that Greipel would be feeling nervous having missed out on day 1 and that he'd go too early and it was worth hanging on.


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## Beebo (5 Jul 2016)

So Cav is now level with Hinault and 6 behind Merckx. But both these guys won Yellow, Green and Polka jerseys.
Hinault won loads of ITT's and Merckx won plenty of mountain top finishes, which Cav will never win.

Can the older and wiser members explain how this was possible? Were the points systems different? Are riders now bred for a single job, ie sprinter, climber, because the age of the all rounder seems to have gone, there is no way that any current rider could win all 3 jerseys over the course of their career.


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## smutchin (5 Jul 2016)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> A quick Google shows Gerrans taking kids up when he took pink at the Giro, and Lance also did it



I'm sure I remember Cuddles posing with his kid on the podium in Paris. (Edit: google says it was in Italy, not France.)


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## suzeworld (6 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> So Cav is now level with Hinault and 6 behind Merckx. But both these guys won Yellow, Green and Polka jerseys.
> Hinault won loads of ITT's and Merckx won plenty of mountain top finishes, which Cav will never win.
> 
> Can the older and wiser members explain how this was possible? Were the points systems different? Are riders now bred for a single job, ie sprinter, climber, because the age of the all rounder seems to have gone, there is no way that any current rider could win all 3 jerseys over the course of their career.



I dont think it is new for sprinters to be a class apart in this sort of stage race. Back in the day Cipolinni used to blast out a few wins in the first week then GO HOME. he never even tried to hang on to get a win in Paris!

It is very easy for a single rider to win polka dot and yellow ... the GC leader stays near the front and scoops plenty of moutain points ... the polka dot sometimes worn by the guy who was second in that classement cos the guy who was first is in yellow, which takes precedence in the ride. Think at the end they can win more than one jersey, pretty sure Froome got both last year.

The green thing seems to me to have always been a compensation shirt for the all rounder type ... and they do change the rules about how the points for that are awarded quite often. It suits riders like Zabel and Sagan who are punchy, strong, quite good at lots of things but not supreme in any of them.

I guess the way that teams work like machines now limits the opportunities of individuals acheiving random success on different aspects of the discipline. Armstrong masterminded that machine approach and we see it more in other teams now, too.

I also think there is a courtesy in the peleton that you don't chase more than one jersey, so the tour leader COULD get green, but with a team to focus on the GC you dont chase the individual intermediate sprints etc, to scoop those points, which you COULD do, but why bother? it preserves your energy for the main prize. Also it is a sort of sharing the the three weeks of honours ... perhaps?

Dont forget cycling racers often forge alliances across teams etc to gain advantage like in breakaways, or who is going to work at the front to chase down breaks. They are used to some co-operation.

This year, my view is that if any one is going to beat Froome/SKY machine the other GC guys will need to work like a team against him to push him down the ranks, before they fight it out between themselves.


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## Rohloff_Brompton_Rider (6 Jul 2016)

Oops wrong thread.


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## lutonloony (6 Jul 2016)

Itv were saying that if you ignored individual TT then cav was ahead of Hinault. They might as well have said if you ignored flat stages where his team had led him to the line cav had no wins


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## martint235 (6 Jul 2016)

lutonloony said:


> Itv were saying that if you ignored individual TT then cav was ahead of Hinault. They might as well have said if you ignored flat stages where his team had led him to the line cav had no wins


What they are trying to say is that Cav is by far the best TdF sprinter of all time which is true as Merckx and Hinault won stages that weren't sprints and of a kind Cav is never going to win.


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## lutonloony (6 Jul 2016)

martint235 said:


> What they are trying to say is that Cav is by far the best TdF sprinter of all time which is true as Merckx and Hinault won stages that weren't sprints and of a kind Cav is never going to win.


Was a bit tongue in cheek, obviously he is the best, and unlike the clown Cippolini finishes the tour


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## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Beebo said:


> Were the points systems different?



The points competition changes all the time and to say Merckx and Hinault are the only riders to win both Green and Yellow isn't the whole story - it overlooks the fact that in the early days of the Tour (from the third edition onwards, I think), the overall winner was decided by a points system, but they changed it back to a time classification after Eugene Christophe was robbed of the overall victory he deserved in 1912 by the sprinter Odile Defraye.

When they brought the points classification back in 1953, as a separate competition, the scoring was initially penalty points for riders outside the top places, so the rider with the _fewest_ points was the winner. The intermediate sprints didn't come until later.

When Merckx won all three* jerseys in 1969, he didn't win any sprint stages - but he did win three time trials and three mountain stages. That was also the year Barry Hoban won back-to-back stages, but he didn't even finish in the top ten in the points competition. In fact, there's a noticeable lack of recognised 'sprinters' in the top ten of the points classification that year. So clearly the race was very different in those days and the points competition favoured consistent all-rounders rather than pure sprinters. It was changed a few years ago with the unabashed aim of giving Cav a chance to win and IIRC one of the changes was dropping the intermediate sprints, so it was purely down to stage finishes.

If you look at the final points classification in recent years, the main GC riders are always near the top just by virtue of the points they pick up in the mountain stages. Some GC riders have a very fast finish but there's too much at stake for them to risk getting involved in fighting it out with the pure sprinters, so they tend to stay out of it (notwithstanding that they're always tussling for a spot near the front of the peloton to avoid getting caught out by crashes). Plus as @suzeworld says, there's an element of etiquette - letting the riders with no GC ambitions have a chance at a consolation prize. Not that Merckx or Hinault would have ever countenanced such lily-livered behaviour.

*four, if you include the combination classification


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## martint235 (6 Jul 2016)

lutonloony said:


> Was a bit tongue in cheek, obviously he is the best, and unlike the clown Cippolini finishes the tour


There was something about Cipp though. He knew that in a flat sprint no one could touch him and although he obviously took it seriously he kind of gave the impression that he didn't and that it was all a bit of a joke. I was always a bit sad to see him go home but you always knew he would.

How would he have fared in today's tour, for example today we heading upwards and it's only Weds. I think his sponsors would have been miffed if he didn't make it to Saturday.


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## smutchin (6 Jul 2016)

Cipo in his prime was phenomenal to watch. And to be fair, he was more interested in the Giro, which he did finish several times.

Hard to separate them in terms of achievement. Both won Milan-Sanremo. Both wore the Rainbow jersey. Cav has won the points competition in all three Grand Tours compared to Cipo winning the Giro points classification three times. Hard to see Cav going on to win 42 Tour stages, but that's partly because Grand Tours have changed - you won't get anyone replicating Cipo's achievement of winning four Tour stages in a row simply because we're unlikely to see four pure sprinters' stages in a row these days (also Cipo never wasted his time fannying about on the track).


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## brommers (6 Jul 2016)

suzeworld said:


> sure Froome got both last year


Yes he did win KOM


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## Hont (7 Jul 2016)

smutchin said:


> IIRC one of the changes was dropping the intermediate sprints, so it was purely down to stage finishes.


Sort of. They dropped having three intermediate sprints with small points on offer to have only one with much larger points. 

I remember Prudhomme being delighted with this change as you had almost full lead outs for the intermediate sprints whereas before the breakaway had hoovered up all the points so the peloton just rolled through. The sprinter's teams don't quite commit such resources to it now, but that's probably because everyone expects Sagan to win green anyway and they just go through the motions in case he abandons.


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## brommers (20 Jul 2016)

I'd like to thank Cav for giving us plenty of excitement over the past couple of weeks. Still at the top of his game and I hope he gets the medal he's dreamt of at the Olympics.


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## Adam4868 (29 Jul 2016)

Louch said:


> Given his commitment to the Quebeka cause, he will be there to the
> Finish. He regrets quitting the tour in 2008 for the Olympics and can't see him doing it again


Didn't think he would,but he did well ..


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## Pro Tour Punditry (12 Apr 2017)

I see that Cavendish has been diagnosed with glandular fever
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mark-cavendish-diagnosed-with-epstein-barr-virus/


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## ColinJ (13 Apr 2017)

Marmion said:


> I see that Cavendish has been diagnosed with glandular fever
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mark-cavendish-diagnosed-with-epstein-barr-virus/


I read that earlier today. Even if he makes a fairly rapid recovery and is able to ride this year's TdF, it is surely bound to have a negative impact on his performance?


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## Dogtrousers (13 Apr 2017)

ColinJ said:


> I read that earlier today. Even if he makes a fairly rapid recovery and is able to ride this year's TdF, it is surely bound to have a negative impact on his performance?


If he was still with sky/BC I'm sure they'd see a golden opportunity to pump him full of PEDs that may, theoretically, benefit Epstein Barr virus.


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## rich p (30 Apr 2017)

Cav mentioned on Twitter that he went on a training ride yesterday. 
Let's hope that he has recovered sufficiently.


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## SWSteve (30 Apr 2017)

rich p said:


> Cav mentioned on Twitter that he went on a training ride yesterday.
> Let's hope that he has recovered sufficiently.



Dimension Data having issues - Steve Cummings out for a while as well


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## brommers (30 Apr 2017)

ItsSteveLovell said:


> Dimension Data having issues - Steve Cummings out for a while as well


Didn't have issues today though!


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