# My Saddle is Nothing But a Pain in the ah . . . rear! (Update)



## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

I absolutely love my Brompton, but I've always had difficulty with the saddle. After just about every ride, my backside hurts, and lately it is even worse. I use padded shorts, I've adjusted the tilt on the seat various times, but to no avail. I do notice that if I sit way back on the seat, I get some relief. Height wise is fine, as on the complete down stroke I maintain a slight bend to the knee the way it should. There is a forward and rear adjustment on the saddle, does that have any bearing? Also, I'm wondering if sitting more upright, which I do, can contribute to the problem. I haven't made any adjustments for and aft, but other than that, would a saddle change be in order? Perhaps there are more comfortable ones other than the saddle that came with the bike?

Thanks for your help.

Edit:

I adjusted my seat back as far as it would go. Probably about 3/4" travel that had remained. Went for my ride this morning and within a couple hundred feet, I could feel my butt starting to hurt. I got off the bike and thought perhaps if I lowered the saddle some. So I lowered it about an inch, climbed back on and low and behold it felt much better. Not perfect, but better. Enough to at least enjoy my ride more. I'm actually amazed that some minor adjustments can make a big difference. Either this a day this week or next, I'm heading over to a local bike shop to have my sit-bone measured and perhaps, if necessary purchase a better more appropriate seat. After all, what's the point of riding if you are going to be in pain. At least the pain this morning wasn't near as bad.


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## stoatsngroats (16 Sep 2018)

Have you had the saddle for very long? It can take a while to settle your ‘areas’ into a new saddle, and sometimes a saddle may _never_ suit you, despite trying everything.
I’ve tried padded shorts, underwear and nothing, and found that 50 miles can be done without padding, but that’s for me! I’ve cycled for years, and can quickly settle into a new saddle, as long as I don’t stop cycling for any length of time.

Standard saddles are often not the best, but appear to be the lowest common denominator for most people... you may not fit this general mould.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

stoatsngroats said:


> Have you had the saddle for very long? It can take a while to settle your ‘areas’ into a new saddle, and sometimes a saddle may _never_ suit you, despite trying everything.
> I’ve tried padded shorts, underwear and nothing, and found that 50 miles can be done without padding, but that’s for me! I’ve cycled for years, and can quickly settle into a new saddle, as long as I don’t stop cycling for any length of time.
> 
> Standard saddles are often not the best, but appear to be the lowest common denominator for most people... you may not fit this general mould.



Thank you for your reply. The saddle came with the bike which was purchased in 2012. The funny thing is, I didn't really have so much of an issue with it then. Now, I have been absent from cycling for about a year, and have been back in the saddle for a couple of weeks, about 4 days out of each week. Whether that is an issue or not, I have no idea.


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## stoatsngroats (16 Sep 2018)

My OH has a problem if the saddle gets to a couple of years old, but we have left them outside, undercover, during winters, with only a little cycling in this time. Her preferred saddle has quite a lot of padding, so there may be some deterioration of the suppleness for her rear. She just bought a £50 saddle, and immediately rode 38 miles in hot temperatures and has had no issues with comfort.
It maybe this, or your absenteeism from cycling for a year, or both, or neither.
If you have a local shop nearby who can help you with a saddle fit, that may be a good start?


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

stoatsngroats said:


> My OH has a problem if the saddle gets to a couple of years old, but we have left them outside, undercover, during winters, with only a little cycling in this time. Her preferred saddle has quite a lot of padding, so there may be some deterioration of the suppleness for her rear. She just bought a £50 saddle, and immediately rode 38 miles in hot temperatures and has had no issues with comfort.
> It maybe this, or your absenteeism from cycling for a year, or both, or neither.
> If you have a local shop nearby who can help you it’s a saddle fit, that may be a good start?



So a new saddle sorted out your wife's issue. You make some good points. Perhaps a visit to a shop is in order, maybe not where I purchased the bike, but to a shop that deals with local clubs and have knowledgeable staff who ride often. The shop I purchased the bike from is run by a very nice couple that, to be honest, don't have the real knowledge that others may have. The owner comes from a background of architecture, and although well versed in folding bikes, may not have the cycling knowledge that I need to lean on for advice.


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## stoatsngroats (16 Sep 2018)

in your original post, you mention that you could shift the saddle forward/aft, and that when you sit more upright, you can gain some comfort.

If this were me, I would try shifting forward an inch, to see if this allowed your ‘sit’ bones to be more supported. This is just from my (uneducated) guess, but worth a try, until you can gain some advice from this who will know more than I.

It is also possible that the period of not cycling has allowed your posterior to relax away from providing natural body support, and combined with the amount of cycling you appear to be doing, can have really basked those muscles.
It could just be a matter of settling in to the saddle you have, so I may have been not much help at all!
Regards to Arizona btw, from a Chiefs fan


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## alicat (16 Sep 2018)

If the saddle feels more comfortable when you sit way back in the seat, I would experiment with the fore/aft adjustment before you try a different saddle.


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## Joe Brom (16 Sep 2018)

I would say you need more time back in the saddle to get it sorted..two weeks back after a year off isn't very long. 

Or do what I do and toss that thing for a Brooks B17. Brooks leather is all I can ride, and I prefer them with unpadded shorts. My S6L uses a titanium model, which benefits from slightly longer rails and a little more "give" than the steel versions.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

stoatsngroats said:


> in your original post, you mention that you could shift the saddle forward/aft, and that when you sit more upright, you can gain some comfort.
> 
> If this were me, I would try shifting forward an inch, to see if this allowed your ‘sit’ bones to be more supported. This is just from my (uneducated) guess, but worth a try, until you can gain some advice from this who will know more than I.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your advice. Actually, I was wondering if I make some sort of adjustments to the saddle so I’m not too uptight. If I’m leaning forward more, maybe there is less weight and pressure on the seat bone. I will try that for tomorrow’s ride. I was also wondering if changing my handlebars to a straight bar might help, allowing me to lean more forward.


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2018)

Joe Brom said:


> I would say you need more time back in the saddle to get it sorted..two weeks back after a year off isn't very long.
> 
> Or do what I do and toss that thing for a Brooks B17. Brooks leather is all I can ride, and I prefer them with unpadded shorts. My S6L uses a titanium model, which benefits from slightly longer rails and a little more "give" than the steel versions.


I also use a Brooks (B17) on my Brommie, as do many others. Good combo.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> I also use a Brooks (B17) on my Brommie, as do many others. Good combo.



I remember as a boy I had a Brooks racing saddle. Never an issue with saddle soreness. Rode everywhere. I guess as we get older, we become more fragile. Brooks saddles are very stiff at first, but I guess over time they soften up.


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## Kajjal (16 Sep 2018)

I don't have the same style of bike but would start by thinking where the pain is. I have wide sit bones due to being very tall and need a wider saddle with a good sized cutaway or I quickly feel like the Scene in the bond film where he is tied to a chair and his nether regions attacked with a rope 

To get the saddle height right put the crank downwards in line with the seat tube when you are sat on the bike and the pedals level. Then sat back properly on the saddle try to lift yourself off the saddle upwards in line with the seat tube. If you can't do this your saddle is too high so drop it a little and try again. Symptoms of this are you keep moving forward on the saddle, you rock on the saddle as you over stretch to pedal etc.

If you look up KOPS it gives a good starting point for the fore / aft position of the saddle which you can then adjust from.

Start with the saddle level, using a spirit level to set it. Always check the slope of the group you are on as setting a saddle level with a spirit level when you are a hill means once the bike hits level group you can see how crazy the saddle position is.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

Kajjal said:


> I don't have the same style of bike but would start by thinking where the pain is. I have wide sit bones due to being very tall and need a wider saddle with a good sized cutaway or I quickly feel like the Scene in the bond film where he is tied to a chair and his nether regions attacked with a rope
> 
> To get the saddle height right put the crank downwards in line with the seat tube when you are sat on the bike and the pedals level. Then sat back properly on the saddle try to lift yourself off the saddle upwards in line with the seat tube. If you can't do this your saddle is too high so drop it a little and try again. Symptoms of this are you keep moving forward on the saddle, you rock on the saddle as you over stretch to pedal etc.
> 
> ...



That’s good advice. I will do as you suggested. I measured my saddle and it’s 5 3/4” across at the widest point. My height is 6’ 1” tall. Do you think a wider saddle is in order? What does KOPS mean?


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## FolderBeholder (16 Sep 2018)

Watching with interest. 

My Brompton came with the Brompton wide saddle (as I ordered) to fit my wide-ish saddle.
I’ve had worse saddles, but I’ve had better. I’ve perhaps put 300 mi on my Brom since new, and I
just brought it home July 28. I’m hoping the saddle, or my saddle with improve with time.

Rockn Robin....is your saddle the standard Brompton offering?


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

Yes, it’s the standard saddle. You mentioned a wider saddle on your Brompton. Is it wider than mine, which is 5 3/4”?


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## roadrash (16 Sep 2018)

K.O.P.S.…….
https://www.fit4bike.com/en/academy/tutorials/kops-vs-hip-setback


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## Kajjal (16 Sep 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> That’s good advice. I will do as you suggested. I measured my saddle and it’s 5 3/4” across at the widest point. My height is 6’ 1” tall. Do you think a wider saddle is in order? What does KOPS mean?



If you google how to measure your sit bones and then apply that to saddle width sizing it can be very helpful, that is how I found out my road bike saddle was too narrow. Taller people tend to need wider saddles but is it a very individual thing.

KOPS is just a method to work out the best fore / aft saddle position. Just google "KOPS saddle". It just provides a useful starting point for most people which you can then adjust from.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

Kajjal said:


> If you google how to measure your sit bones and then apply that to saddle width sizing it can be very helpful, that is how I found out my road bike saddle was too narrow. Taller people tend to need wider saddles but is it a very individual thing.
> 
> KOPS is just a method to work out the best fore / aft saddle position. Just google "KOPS saddle". It just provides a useful starting point for most people which you can then adjust from.



Thank you for that advice. I will check on it as you advised.


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

roadrash said:


> K.O.P.S.…….
> https://www.fit4bike.com/en/academy/tutorials/kops-vs-hip-setback



Thank you for the link.

Edit:
I just went to the link. Awesome. I will measure accordingly. I signed up for their newsletter. Thank you again.

I just moved my saddle back about 3/4 " according to the measurement suggestion. The center of the pedal is right at the front of my knee now with the pedals parallel to the ground. I also ordered a padded gel cover on Amazon that has good reviews. Hopefully with the adjustments and the padding, all will be fine. I will take my tool kit out with me in case I need to tweak any adjustments.


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## FolderBeholder (16 Sep 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> Yes, it’s the standard saddle. You mentioned a wider saddle on your Brompton. Is it wider than mine, which is 5 3/4”?


Brompton lists at 167mm....(which as we ALL know* equals 6.575 in) 

* thank goodness for Googlefoo


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> I remember as a boy I had a Brooks racing saddle. Never an issue with saddle soreness. Rode everywhere. I guess as we get older, we become more fragile. Brooks saddles are very stiff at first, but I guess over time they soften up.


I find them OK straight out of the box and then they just get better!


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## Rockn Robin (16 Sep 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> I find them OK straight out of the box and then they just get better!



Indeed ! I’m going to check out how to measure my sit bone spread, and find a saddle that will be a proper fit.


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## User66445 (17 Sep 2018)

Brooks are less than ideal on a Brompton because, depending on your height, they may not go back far enough as the rail is shorter than on most. Definitely a try before you buy.


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## Rockn Robin (17 Sep 2018)

avole said:


> Brooks are less than ideal on a Brompton because, depending on your height, they may not go back far enough as the rail is shorter than on most. Definitely a try before you buy.



I’m heading out to my Brompton dealer this week.


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## FolderBeholder (17 Sep 2018)

avole said:


> Brooks are less than ideal on a Brompton because, depending on your height, they may not go back far enough as the rail is shorter than on most. Definitely a try before you buy.


Do you have a different saddle to look at as a suggestion?


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## User66445 (17 Sep 2018)

Brooks suggested their Cambium series when I rang them, the C17 all weather to be precise.


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## 12boy (17 Sep 2018)

I too like leather saddles although I prefer a Velo Orange #6, a narrow saddle much like a Brooks professional. These saddles have sIightly longer rails, BTW, than do Brooks. I understand that, contrary to intuition, a firm, narrow saddle will result in your weight being placed only on your sitbones, and not on the soft tisue that is between and around them. Those bones get sore after the first rides but soon become desensitized to the pressure. Putting pressure on the area between them can result in numbness and the friction of your thighs and associated parts, coupled with high temps, at least for me, causes saddle sores. In Arizona high temps are a fact of life as in most of the Southwest. An upright position with too high a saddle increases the pressure on your sitbones but relieves the pressure on wrists and palms. I have read about KOPS and have tried that, but still prefer to sit a bit further behind the pedals. You will probably have to tinker a bit to find the ideal position after you harden up the sitbones.


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## Rockn Robin (17 Sep 2018)

12boy said:


> I too like leather saddles although I prefer a Velo Orange #6, a narrow saddle much like a Brooks professional. These saddles have sIightly longer rails, BTW, than do Brooks. I understand that, contrary to intuition, a firm, narrow saddle will result in your weight being placed only on your sitbones, and not on the soft tisue that is between and around them. Those bones get sore after the first rides but soon become desensitized to the pressure. Putting pressure on the area between them can result in numbness and the friction of your thighs and associated parts, coupled with high temps, at least for me, causes saddle sores. In Arizona high temps are a fact of life as in most of the Southwest. An upright position with too high a saddle increases the pressure on your sitbones but relieves the pressure on wrists and palms. I have read about KOPS and have tried that, but still prefer to sit a bit further behind the pedals. You will probably have to tinker a bit to find the ideal position after you harden up the sitbones.



Thanks for the info. Someone suggested I measure the sit-bones and purchase a saddle accordingly. 

I thought that a more upright position would cause more pressure on the sit-bones, as you pointed out. For me I will certainly have to keep tweaking things, because on top of having sit-bone duress, I also have to deal with numbness in the hands. I sure hope I will figure all of this out so I can start enjoying my rides.


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## 12boy (20 Sep 2018)

Ergon grips with barends can help your hands by spreading the pressure off the nerve coming through the base of your palm and providing some alternate hand positions. Being a softie I also cork taped mine and did 20 miles today with litlle trouble. Longer trips might require taking a break every so often.


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## Rockn Robin (20 Sep 2018)

12boy said:


> Ergon grips with barends can help your hands by spreading the pressure off the nerve coming through the base of your palm and providing some alternate hand positions. Being a softie I also cork taped mine and did 20 miles today with litlle trouble. Longer trips might require taking a break every so often.



Absolutely. I have some nice ergo grips but I need to get bar ends that won’t impede the fold.


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## 12boy (21 Sep 2018)

Ergon gp2s have small barends that work well with my s bars. Can't speak to other bar types. Easy to take on and off as opposed to the stock ones.


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## Rockn Robin (21 Sep 2018)

12boy said:


> Ergon gp2s have small barends that work well with my s bars. Can't speak to other bar types. Easy to take on and off as opposed to the stock ones.



Those are nice. I have Ergon grips, but not with bar ends. I should swap them out. I’m going to the Brompton dealer on Saturday. Perhaps the have them.


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## FolderBeholder (24 Sep 2018)

Any update from the saddle-front? 
The Missus and I are both of the opinion our Brompton saddles are as “broken-in” as they are gonna get. And, they aren’t working for us.


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## Rockn Robin (24 Sep 2018)

FolderBeholder said:


> Any update from the saddle-front?
> The Missus and I are both of the opinion our Brompton saddles are as “broken-in” as they are gonna get. And, they aren’t working for us.



It was of the opinion of a bike tech at a local shop to have a properly fitted saddle. That would first require the measurement of the seat bones. Although the stock Brompton saddle is of decent quality, it’s not one size fits all. I’m using padded shorts and a padded gel seat cover. It’s ok, but I still need my arse measured. I was going to go in last week, but I will wait until my bank account recovers from a drought.


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## FolderBeholder (24 Sep 2018)

Rockn Robin said:


> It was of the opinion of a bike tech at a local shop to have a properly fitted saddle. That would first require the measurement of the seat bones. Although the stock Brompton saddle is of decent quality, it’s not one size fits all. I’m using padded shorts and a padded gel seat cover. It’s ok, but I still need my arse measured. I was going to go in last week, but I will wait until my bank account recovers from a drought.


LMAO (see what I did there?) 
Best wishes for A Satisfying Solution.


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## Rockn Robin (24 Sep 2018)

FolderBeholder said:


> LMAO (see what I did there?)
> Best wishes for A Satisfying Solution.



Since you LYAO, it doesn’t quite matter now what saddle you use. 

Satisfying solution! Well, as long as my A is happy, solution satisfied.


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## simongt (24 Sep 2018)

Fab Foodie said:


> I find them OK straight out of the box and then they just get better!


Took me a couple of weeks to break my B.17 in, but agree, they just get better with age & riding - !


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## simongt (24 Sep 2018)

Odd about your Brompton saddle Rockin' Robin. The GLW & I both bought Bromptons a couple of years ago, ride them frequently and haven't had any saddle related issues at all. Or any other come to that - !


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## Rockn Robin (25 Sep 2018)

simongt said:


> Odd about your Brompton saddle Rockin' Robin. The GLW & I both bought Bromptons a couple of years ago, ride them frequently and haven't had any saddle related issues at all. Or any other come to that - !



I’m finding out more about saddles, and that there are different sizes to match the size of each person’s seat bone measurement. The Brompton saddle is good quality, as Brompton would not use inferior parts. The saddles, as good as they are, come in one stock size, and one size doesn’t fit all. For me, it’s not the right fit as it is for you. Bottom line, I need my arse measured to find the appropriate size saddle.


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## ukoldschool (25 Sep 2018)

FolderBeholder said:


> A Satisfying Solution.


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## Kell (25 Sep 2018)

ukoldschool said:


>



Yeah - I spotted that too.


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