# Genesis Flyer v Kona Band Wagon



## mcb2080 (27 Aug 2012)

Hi, appreciate any help or advice giving.

I have narrowed my first fixed bike down to either a Kona or Genesis 

I can get a:
Kona Band Wagon 2010 for £450
Genesis Flyer 2011 for £490
Genesis Flyer 2012 for £570 

First things first what is best value for money between Kona and Genesis, also is it worth paying extra for the Genesis 2012 over the 2011 or is it just a new paint job?

I currently ride a 54cm Cannondale Synapse ( I like the relaxed geometry) I am 5'9 with a 30inch inside leg.

According to genesis sizing guide a 56cm frame is for someone 5'7 - 5'9 and a 54cm is for 5'5 - 5'7 is this accurate as a guy in a bike shop told me I would be fine on a 54cm although he didn't have any in stock for me to try out.

Would I need a Kona in a 54cm frame?

Is either of these frames a relaxed geometry as I don't like to be to stretched out on the frame?

I am going to have to buy over the internet so I won't be able to try out any of the bikes before hand.

I will have more question about gear ratio with climbing hills but I will leave that for my next thread

Cheers


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## mcb2080 (28 Aug 2012)

I have now joined the single speed / fixed club.

Just ordered the 54cm 2011 Genesis Flyer

Should have it by friday, will get some pics up when it arrives.

Ah well the challenging hills of east kilbride await


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## djb1971 (28 Aug 2012)

Nice bike!

I had the light blue flyer and regret selling it. My dimensions are similar to yours and I had the 54 but was equally as happy on the 56. I fitted a slightly longer stem on it by 10mm. I think I loved it so much because it fitted and felt perfect when I was on it. If you don't want to be stretched just have the stem angled upwards on it or a 90mm stem if the 100mm is too stretched. I think it'll be okay, you can always adjust the little things when the frame is right. 

The gearing is something only you can choose, most people use 69-72 gear inches on fixed but depending on fitness and terrain you may want higher or lower gearing. Mine was 77 but nearly killed me with a landed rack on climbing through the welsh hills! It's now 72ish and is great for local riding but just enough to climb loaded and not spin out too much. 

Just enjoy it and ride it a bit to sort the gearing!


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## mcb2080 (28 Aug 2012)

Thanks djb1971.

I am going to ride it locally for a few weeks and try hills with different inclines to get used to not spinning at 90 cadence all day.

Once I have it sorted I will do a test cycle to my work and back on a day off, just in case I need to get off and push, which hopefully I won't, there is one bugger of a step incline that I can just get up on my road bike at 34 x 22 so the single speed will be a tough here.

But hey it will make me stronger

Hopefully the bike fits from the off but if not I will see my local bike shop guy as he is pretty sound.

Thanks again for the info.


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## djb1971 (28 Aug 2012)

You'll be amazed at the climbs you can get up on a fixed, the momentum helps you on fixed but when you've not got a bail out gear you just grit your teeth and push on


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## mcb2080 (28 Aug 2012)

I am gambling on this being the case!

I am going to go single speed for a while to get used to the bike and then I will give fixed a try.

I should go single speed in to work in the morning as it is mostly downhill then swap over to fixed on the way home


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## djb1971 (28 Aug 2012)

Enjoy it and just take your time on fixed if it's the first time. If you manage the run on ss you'll definitely do it fixed, it's easier fixed! 

You just have to keep pedalling but the bike will remind you if you stop


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## ror3h (30 Aug 2012)

I got a 54cm 2011 Flyer last month and have since been using it to commute on (after squeezing some mudguards on), oh and I ride a 54cm Cannondale Synapse too!
The Flyer is definitely racier, the steering felt a little twitchy at first but you'll soon got used to it. There are a couple of steep but short climbs on my commute but I can power up them ok on the Flyer. I do tend to spin out a lot on the way home though, but I just think of it as cadence training...
The only thing I don't get on with is the brake hoods as they're quite narrow compared to the Shimano 105 hoods on my Synapse, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. Oh, and I changed the saddle and bar tape too as the white soon got grubby and I didn't get on with the saddle anyway.
Enjoy!
Here's a pic of mine:


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## Harry_Palmer79 (30 Aug 2012)

ror3h said:


> I got a 54cm 2011 Flyer last month and have since been using it to commute on (after squeezing some mudguards on), oh and I ride a 54cm Cannondale Synapse too!
> The Flyer is definitely racier, the steering felt a little twitchy at first but you'll soon got used to it. There are a couple of steep but short climbs on my commute but I can power up them ok on the Flyer. I do tend to spin out a lot on the way home though, but I just think of it as cadence training...
> The only thing I don't get on with is the brake hoods as they're quite narrow compared to the Shimano 105 hoods on my Synapse, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. Oh, and I changed the saddle and bar tape too as the white soon got grubby and I didn't get on with the saddle anyway.
> Enjoy!
> Here's a pic of mine:


 
Can I ask what mudguards you have on your Flyer? I just picked one up at the weekend week (that's it in my avatar) and I've yet to kit it out with mudguards, lights, etc...


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## mcb2080 (30 Aug 2012)

ror3h said:


> I got a 54cm 2011 Flyer last month and have since been using it to commute on (after squeezing some mudguards on), oh and I ride a 54cm Cannondale Synapse too!
> The Flyer is definitely racier, the steering felt a little twitchy at first but you'll soon got used to it. There are a couple of steep but short climbs on my commute but I can power up them ok on the Flyer. I do tend to spin out a lot on the way home though, but I just think of it as cadence training...
> The only thing I don't get on with is the brake hoods as they're quite narrow compared to the Shimano 105 hoods on my Synapse, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. Oh, and I changed the saddle and bar tape too as the white soon got grubby and I didn't get on with the saddle anyway.
> Enjoy!
> Here's a pic of mine:


 
Thanks for the reply ror3h

Looks good mate, and mudguards look good on it too.

If you don't mind me asking, what guards are they?

I went and bought a White Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow Saddle, so I will need to percervere with the white bar tape

Did you have too mess about with the stem or bar height?

Cheers for the tip on the steering, I will take this into account when I get out on the bike.

Getting delivered this afternoon


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## clarion (30 Aug 2012)

Sounds like you made a good choice. I have a Ridgeback World Tour Solo, which is the same as a Genesis Skyline (the Flyer with mudguard/rack braze ons). It's very comfortable, yet pretty fast. I've adapted mine, adding an S3X, hub dynamo, bullhorns and a prop stand. But it's still essentially the same bike.

Don't be bullied into getting too big a gear to start with, if you love your knees. And learn to spin a bit, which will help your cycling in so many ways. I had 48/15, or about 67" on mine, which is a good compromise.

You'll be amazed how much you can climb on the one gear, but do watch out for descents. If you're not putting power down into it, just relax your legs for an equivalent of freewheeling. I do run two brakes, mind, though I do use leg braking naturally much of the time.


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## Harry_Palmer79 (30 Aug 2012)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks for the reply ror3h
> Cheers for the tip on the steering, I will take this into account when I get out on the bike.
> 
> Getting delivered this afternoon


 
Enjoy, hope it's a good fit!

I can confirm the steering is nimble, though I'm used to a heavy Carrera Crossfire with the turning circle of a cross channel ferry, so anything would feel pretty nifty in comparison!


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## mcb2080 (30 Aug 2012)

Well here is my bike






I have took it out for a quick 6 mile run and it feels good.

I done two hills that I was worried about and done both of them fine, I was spinning out a lot at about 18 - 22 mph on the flats, my feet kept slipping off the pedals as I wasn't clipped in, I am just using the ones that came with the bike.

I am also going to order a new pair of Shimano A530 pedals as these are what's on my road bike and I quite like them.

I can't find my pedal magnet so I don't know what my cadence was, need to order a new one.

I found the steering to be ok although I might move the bars up slightly so that it is easier to rest my hands on the hoods.

I will take it on a test commute run over the weekend so that I have plenty of time to test myself on the big hills....I will not walk LOL

Right, now the tweeking begins.

Both of my brake levers rattle, if I pull on them slightly whilst riding the noise goes away, is there away of tightening them to take the rattle noise away? They even make a rattle noise when bike is stationery even if I just tap the middle of the handlebars.

This will sound silly but I will ask anyway, having never owned a single speed, what are the bolts on the back wheel next to the nuts for?






I am going to change the tyres over, is it just a case of loosing the nuts to take the wheel off or do I need to mess about with the bolt / screw?

Can I replace the nuts on both wheels to quick release levers?

I think my back wheel might be a tiny bit out of true, when I lift the bike and spin the back wheel there is a wee bit of movement from side to side, also when I look at the cog this also seems to have a wee wobble.

I am going to get the LBS to have a look at this tomorrow, but I just though I would ask here in case this is normal. The back wheel also stops spinning very quickly and sounds a wee bit rough, where as the front wheel just spins for ages with no noise at all.

I think there is also dirt between the fork and the frame, as when I turn the bars you can hear a light grinding noise, will have to get the LBS to sort this as well as I don't know how to take headset apart to get to the fork to give it a clean and grease.

The above things are all very minor but I want my bike to run as silently as possible.

Apart from that I am loving it


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## clarion (30 Aug 2012)

I'd advise against changing to qr on the rear wheel. You'll be putting a lot of power into one side of that wheel, and you really really _really_ don't want it to shift.

Getting clipped in will improve things without a doubt. I used double sided SPDs on fixed, as it can be a bit of a faff getting the right side.

The wee bolts are to set the position of the axle in the dropout to help prevent it moving, and so you can refit the wheel to exactly the same place as before. The downside to that for track ends rather than horizontal dropouts is that, when you release the axle nuts, you need to drop the wheel forwards slightly to get the chain off the sprocket and chainring. Never mind, they do help, though mine dropped out quite early on. Yours look a sensible size. Mine were narrow, of an indeterminate thread, and far too long.

Good thing about fixed is that you know the ratio, so you can calculate the cadence for a given speed, using something like Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator.

Brake lever rattle: Just check they are tight to the bar, and that the caliper is taking up all the slack cable when at rest. Might cure it. No promises on that one, as I had a persistent rattle in one lever.

You might find that you become obsessive about keeping your wheels true, as it does seem to make more of a difference on fixed. But ask the shop to do it this time.

Have fun!


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## mcb2080 (30 Aug 2012)

Thanks for the reply clarion, point noted about the quick release, Cheers.

I used to to run double sided spd's but sometimes I just like to go out on my bike with trainers or if I just have a short journey to do, that's why I like the A530's.

Once I get the hills into my legs, I will look at going for a lower cog so that I can go a bit faster before I spin out.

On the back wheel issue, just to get this clear, I undo the nuts then undo the bolts to slacken chain, then tighten the nuts once chain is tensioned then tighten the bolts? Sorry if this is a dumb question

I am going to go to you tube the now for some tutorial videos

I will report back tomorrow once I have had the chance to go to the LBS.

Cheers again


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## djb1971 (30 Aug 2012)

There are 2 bolts. Tension the drive side then tension the non drive side and centre the wheel in the frame. Once the tension is okay tighten your nuts

Tightening the bolts moves the wheel backwards by pushing on the axle. 

Lovely bike


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## ror3h (31 Aug 2012)

mcb2080 said:


> Thanks for the reply ror3h
> 
> Looks good mate, and mudguards look good on it too.
> 
> ...


 

Cheers! The mudguards are crud roadracers, they're the only full guards you'll get on this bike as the tyre clearances are very tight, especially at the rear brake.
I've been playing about with fitting a 120mm stem and slamming it, but that's just cos I wanted to try a racier position than I have on my other bike.

I also have the rattling brake levers, they are rather annoying at first but I don't notice them anymore. I am thinking about getting some new levers though as the position on the hoods isn't so comfortable on long rides.


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## mcb2080 (31 Aug 2012)

ror3h said:


> Cheers! The mudguards are crud roadracers, they're the only full guards you'll get on this bike as the tyre clearances are very tight, especially at the rear brake.
> I've been playing about with fitting a 120mm stem and slamming it, but that's just cos I wanted to try a racier position than I have on my other bike.
> 
> I also have the rattling brake levers, they are rather annoying at first but I don't notice them anymore. I am thinking about getting some new levers though as the position on the hoods isn't so comfortable on long rides.


 

Cheers for the mudguards name, I will get a set ordered.

I could feel my hands ache a bit on the hoods as well, I was thinking of undoing the clamp holding the handlebars and lifting the hoods a bit to a more horizontal position to see if that helps.

I can live with the rattly brakes, I was more worried in case there was something wrong.

I do have a concern regarding the back wheel though, if I lift the back wheel off of the ground and start turning the pedals backwards, the wheel, cog and chain feel a wee bit rough, not smooth like if I was turning the pedal clockwise.

I don't know if a single speed is not designed to pedal back wards but I sometimes do this on my geared road bike and it doesn't sound rough, does your bike feel rough doing this?

I will get the bike shop to check this out ( once I get there ), if your bike felt the same then I would not be as concerned.

I never made it to the bike shop today as I have waited in for an Argos order only for them to tell me 5 minutes ago that it will not be delivered today, going to have to wait another 4 weeks


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## djb1971 (31 Aug 2012)

If you're running fixed you won't be pedaling backwards in a hurry!

If you're running a freewheel don't have the tension super tight on the chain because it'll knacker it out fast. Are you sure it's not the sound of the chain you can hear? 1/8 chains are a bit agricultural but bombproof. Have you checked the wheel bearings?

You can add grease to the shimano freewheels without dismantling, place grease on the front and rear where there's a gap running around the face. Turn the freewheel and force the grease through the cracks. Don't put loads in, it'll just come back out. Put just enough in to make it run nicely and stop any rattling. You can degrease and then do this to put fresh grease in without taking them apart. 

The brake levers can be stopped from rattling. Ensure the brake cable has no slack at all, lsnide side the front of the lever and grease the pivots. It'll stop them from rattling, that's what I did.


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## mcb2080 (31 Aug 2012)

djb1971 said:


> If you're running fixed you won't be pedaling backwards in a hurry!
> 
> If you're running a freewheel don't have the tension super tight on the chain because it'll knacker it out fast. Are you sure it's not the sound of the chain you can hear? 1/8 chains are a bit agricultural but bombproof. Have you checked the wheel bearings?
> 
> ...


 
LOL, at the fixed comment.

I haven't touched anything on the bike yet, just took the bike out the box yesterday and put the front wheel on, so I am unsure of tension, I will get the LBS to show me how to set tension correctly and get him to check out the roughness, it probably is nothing but better to be safe.

I will have a go at the brake cable, cheers.

Cheers for the tips regarding the grease, I think even I could tackle that 

No more daft question from me....well today anyway!

Thanks again


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## djb1971 (31 Aug 2012)

Tension the chain so that it's taught with a couple of mm visible slack inthe chains midpoint between the chainring and sprocket. You should be able to push the chain up and down a few mm at that point. If its too tight it will not spin right if you flick the pedals and it'll have tight spots on the chainring causing excess wear. 

Learn how to do it, you'll need to if you're out and get a visit from the fairy!


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## mcb2080 (1 Sep 2012)

Cheers djb1971, I got some goodies through the post today, so I was swapped the tyres over to gatorskin hardshells and I put my shimano a530 pedals on and sorted my cadence magnet, so everything is good to go

The tension advice was spot on, but I am glad that my first time of taking the wheel off was in the house, as the drive side axle just wouldn't come out, I don't know if there was too much paint on the frame, but I had to get a rubber mallet and tap the axle quite a few times to get it out.

I re greased the axle and put the wheel on and off a few times so that it now slips on and off without any force.

I tried pulling on any slack on the brake cables but alas still rattly but I can life with that.

After re tensioning the chain and putting some chain lub on the bike feels a lot smoother, so maybe it was a combination of tension or no chain lub.

Is it hard to undo the head set to drop the forks in order to give them a clean and grease or is this a task for the LBS?

I would like to try as much myself as possible.

Also, I would like to rotate my handlebars so that the hoods are more horizontal, when undoing the clamp, is there an order for re tightening the 4 screws







Cheers


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## djb1971 (1 Sep 2012)

The handlebar clamp bolts should be tightened in an even X pattern and to 5nm. If you don't own a torque wrench just do them pretty tight but don't swing on them!

You can get a ritchey torque key that is preset to the exact force for stems etc. which is cheaper than a torque wrench.

The headset is easy if you have an idea of what you're doing but if you don't take it to the lbs. it'll take 5 mins to degrease and put together again.

Undo the stem clamp bolts
Remove the top cap then stem
Remove stem spacers
There may be a split plastic compression ring, carefully prise it out
Remove any dust shield from the top race
Revove the top bearing race you will see the bearings here
Push the top of the forks and the bottom will release
No need to pull out the fork, just lower it. Unless you're replacing or cleaning bearings and race
Clean everything and regrease then rebuild. Don't drop any bearings if any are loose
Clamp bolts to at least 5-6nm it should give the force on the stem.

If they're sealed bearings (not small ball bearings)just clean everything. If the bearings are rough get new ones.

That's the general way but look on you tube, there's loads of info on there.


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## djb1971 (1 Sep 2012)

You will need to preload the bearing when rebuilding. Check on you tube!!

This is important


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## djb1971 (1 Sep 2012)

A quick search found this but there are lots!


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2qaKUUMDM&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## mcb2080 (1 Sep 2012)

Thanks again djb1971, excellent video that doesn't look too difficult.

I am heading out for a few stella so tomorrow will probably be a no go but might attempt it on Monday, worse comes to worse I take it to LBS, which I would have had too anyway.

Cheers mate

Have a good night.


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## djb1971 (1 Sep 2012)

No problem

Once you've seen it done or done it yourself it'll be dead easy!


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

Right question for today

When out on the road, do you carry a dumbell spanner for wheel removal or a full size spanner?

I am going to have a saddle bag so space wise it looks like a dumbell spanner for me, are these actually any good?

Or should I just find space in my jacket somewhere for a full size spanner?


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## djb1971 (2 Sep 2012)

Use the dumbell if it's got 15mm on it. I use a sawn off normal ring spanner

I wouldn't stick a spanner in my pocket.


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

Good point mate, never thought what would happen if I had a spill on the bike, still a wee bit hazzyfrom last night.

Yeah the wheel nuts are 15mm

I will have a search for a small 15mm spanner as this would save some space in the saddle bag over the bulldog.

Cheers


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## djb1971 (2 Sep 2012)

Most companies do a specific tool or the nuts but they are all £15 or more. Just saw a ring spanner to about 4" long and file the sawn end smooth. It oes the job perfectly. I've had all of the litte spanner gadgets and they're not up to much.

The Lezyne one has a tyre lever on it which is decent but not plastic coated, the trixie has a 4mm Allen, lockring tool, place to fit chain whip and fastens to a bottle cage mount. The others just have things like beer bottle openers, which we all need on a Sunday morning spin 

Dont put anything in your pockets that will skewer you! Trust me I know from experience and have scars to prove it!


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

Also, I am trying to justify buying a torque wrench, would come in handy with the carbon on the road bike as well.

I started off looking at the ritchey torque key that you mentioned, I some how ended up nearly buying a Park Tool TW5 wrench, I had to close the page before buying, as I can't justify it but it looks nice and shiny


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## djb1971 (2 Sep 2012)

Do a search for a sealy torque wrench. I got mine a while back for £20. They are great and take drive sockets.

Loads on eBay!

Edit it's sealey! I've changed it 3 times now thanks to auto spell!!


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> Most companies do a specific tool or the nuts but they are all £15 or more. Just saw a ring spanner to about 4" long and file the sawn end smooth. It oes the job perfectly. I've had all of the litte spanner gadgets and they're not up to much.
> 
> The Lezyne one has a tyre lever on it which is decent but not plastic coated, the trixie has a 4mm Allen, lockring tool, place to fit chain whip and fastens to a bottle cage mount. The others just have things like beer bottle openers, which we all need on a Sunday morning spin
> 
> Dont put anything in your pockets that will skewer you! Trust me I know from experience and have scars to prove it!


 
Cheers, that's my job for today, as I don't think I will be doing any cycling.

Yeah, I had a look at the chain whip one but I thought that that was gimmicky, just keep one tool for one job

Sounds painful mate


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

Just done a search on Amazon, and this one popped up

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Torque-Wren...ef=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1346575395&sr=1-1

Some good reviews

When you mention 1/4 drive socket, is that this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-Hexagon-Screwdriver-Holding/dp/B0001K9SJ8/ref=pd_sim_diy_6

Just so that I get everything ordered at the same time

Edit, yeah that seems to be the right thing.


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## djb1971 (2 Sep 2012)

The hexbit holder is great but search on eBay for sealey torque wrench. They are about £20.

They are 3/8 drive, auto spell put 1/4


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## djb1971 (2 Sep 2012)

Like this one, you may find it cheaper. I've not searched.

You want the one from 1-25?nm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-ST...ls_Equipment&hash=item3cc3a2b9bc#ht_661wt_711


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## mcb2080 (2 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> Like this one, you may find it cheaper. I've not searched.
> 
> You want the one from 1-25?nm
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-ST...ls_Equipment&hash=item3cc3a2b9bc#ht_661wt_711


 

Thanks again, couldn't find it any cheaper.

I will go for this.

Cheers


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## clarion (2 Sep 2012)

I carry a 15mm spanner with me. It's ring/open, about 6" long, pretty cheap, and not heavy at all. Fits neatly into my toolkit.


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## mcb2080 (3 Sep 2012)

clarion said:


> I carry a 15mm spanner with me. It's ring/open, about 6" long, pretty cheap, and not heavy at all. Fits neatly into my toolkit.


 
I have found an old spanner that fits into my saddle bag, saves me some dough.

Finally got round to visiting the LBS

Got my rattly brakes sorted, drop of oil in the pivots done the trick, cheers.

Got my wheels trued and got my stem raised by 5 mm as there was an unused spacer under the cap.

All good to go, I went out and done 12 mile and it all seems good, in fact I done the same loop on my road bike two weeks ago and I was nearly a minute slower on the road bike, I was not expecting that considering I span out a few times today on the flats.

I was talking to the bike guy about maybe going from an 18 on the back to a 16 if I can cope with the hills ok but he seemed to think that the 18 will be fine on single speed and that I should go fixed with a 20.

My commute to work is mostly downhill and going home is well...mostly uphill

So does that make sense 18 single speed on the way in and 20 fixed on the way home?


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## djb1971 (3 Sep 2012)

I don't know what your chainring is but don't overdo it on fixed to start. Get your legs used to spinning and leg braking downhill. If you push hard on fixed on hills your knees will not thank you. I usually run a 16/17 sprocket and an 17/18 freewheel with 44t up front. I like the freewheel to be an easier option if I have a mishap on fixed!

A 20t will spin like mad if you're spinning out on 18 now if you hit a flat or downhill. At the end of the day only you know your capabilities so choose what suits you and doesn't make your knees ache!


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## djb1971 (3 Sep 2012)

If you haven't already, have a play with this:

http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches

Put your chainring sizes in 42/44 etc.

Then your sprocket sizes 16/17/18 etc. 

Itll give you a good idea of which front and rear teeth sizes you'll prefer, it can get expensive if you play with ring/sprocket sizes!


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## mcb2080 (3 Sep 2012)

Thanks djb1971

I am running 46 x 18 single speed the now.

The bike guy seemed to think that running a 20 fixed up hill would give me a higher cadence and would build strength.

I think I will keep it simple and just run with the 18 on SS for the time being and give me knees time to get used to the hills.

LOL, I try to run before I can walk.

Thanks again for all your patience and I appreciate you and others answering my (daft) question


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## mcb2080 (3 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> If you haven't already, have a play with this:
> 
> http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches
> 
> ...


 
Excellent link mate, I will have a play about with that.

Last question's for today

If I did want to change my sprocket is there any special tools that I require, and where would I buy the sprockets?

Don't wan't to end up going for the wrong type, also is their a single speed chain that is highly recommended for when my current one stretches, don't mind paying a wee bit more if it is quality?


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## djb1971 (3 Sep 2012)

For sprockets you'll need a lockring tool and a chain whip tool, you can get tools with both on one tool!
Check the direction of the threads on the lockring and the sprocket before fitting/removing!

If you buy a freewheel don't get a cheap one that has to be dismantled to be removed, get one that needs a 4 prong tool to remove it. There are some decent sturmey archer ones on eBay from practical cycles, I prefer them to shimano. If you're feeling flush white industries do rebuildable ones.

Check to see what chain you're using when buying freewheels and sprockets! 1/8 is wider than 3/32. The 1/8 will run on 3/32 sprockets but the 3/32 won't run on 1/8 sprockets. 

I'll try to find a few and post some links up


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## mcb2080 (3 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> For sprockets you'll need a lockring tool and a chain whip tool, you can get tools with both on one tool!
> Check the direction of the threads on the lockring and the sprocket before fitting/removing!
> 
> If you buy a freewheel don't get a cheap one that has to be dismantled to be removed, get one that needs a 4 prong tool to remove it. There are some decent sturmey archer ones on eBay from practical cycles, I prefer them to shimano. If you're feeling flush white industries do rebuildable ones.
> ...


 
Thanks again mate, I am not daft........honest

I just don't have a clue about single speed / fixed


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## djb1971 (3 Sep 2012)

According to the specs your bike is a 3/32 chain so buy 1/8 stuff unless you put a new chain on. 1/8 chains are cheaper btw when you're ready for a new one!

Lockring tools here and the dicta/shimano tool
http://velosolo.co.uk/shoptool.html

Cogs here
http://velosolo.co.uk/shoptrack.html

Screw on freewheel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sturm...arts_SR&var=&hash=item7918a778e2#ht_500wt_689
Notice it has n4 notches on it for easy removal

More tools
http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/cog--hub--cassette--freewheel-tools-43-c.asp


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## mcb2080 (3 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> According to the specs your bike is a 3/32 chain so buy 1/8 stuff unless you put a new chain on. 1/8 chains are cheaper btw when you're ready for a new one!
> 
> Lockring tools here and the dicta/shimano tool
> http://velosolo.co.uk/shoptool.html
> ...


 
Awesome mate, fantastic post.

I am off to work soon, 12 hour night shiftbut at least I will have time to take a look at the tools and look at plenty of youtube videos to see how easy it is to change over

Thanks again


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## djb1971 (3 Sep 2012)

mcb2080 said:


> Awesome mate, fantastic post.
> 
> I am off to work soon, 12 hour night shiftbut at least I will have time to take a look at the tools and look at plenty of youtube videos to see how easy it is to change over
> 
> Thanks again


 
Itll keep you busy for a while


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## mcb2080 (16 Sep 2012)

A wee update.

I have done about 100 miles on the single speed and so far so good.

My first commute was very windy and on my climb on the way home I thought I had made a mistake with the gearing but I manned up and made it up the hill (just) gradient 9. I normally go up this in 34 x (25 - 28) depending on the gradient so 46 x 18 is an achievement for me

The second day, there was no wind and I took a minute off of my pb on a 20 speed geared bike and the hill was a lot easier.

Only downside is I spin out on flats and downhills.

I have a 16t freewheel sprocket but I am going to leave that until next year once the legs are stronger.

I think fixed is out for the foreseeable future. 

Anyway

I need a longer stem as I just can't get stretched out enough and I feel as if my shoulders are a wee bit hunched

So I am looking at a 120 or 130 mm silver stem, are all oversized stems the same size ie 31.9mm I think?

I am just going to buy a cheap ones ones so that I can get the correct length, then I will look at maybe a better quality one.

I don't have any one that I could swap one with just to try so I will have to buy.

Cheers


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## mcb2080 (16 Sep 2012)

Here's the thing, after measuring the reach on the genesis against my cannondale the genesis has half an inch extra on the reach yet feel shorter on the reach.

When I am on the hoods I can't see my front axle on the cannondale but on the gensis the axle is a good bit in front of the handle bars.

Is this due to the differences in geometry? Or should I have went a frame size up?

Should I be looking at a longer stem but with a higher degree ie 10 rather than 6 on the stem and flip it up the way to lift the handle bars a bit?

Here are some pics to try and show the difference between my two bikes.






















Thanks


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## mcb2080 (16 Sep 2012)

Would this stem be ok in 120 or 130mm?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deda-Quat...-/360480910049?forcev4exp=true#ht_2331wt_1186

I have emailed them to ask what the rise is on the stem.


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## djb1971 (16 Sep 2012)

I can't get all of your pics because I'm on the iPad with a dodgy vodafone connection but the pic of both your bikes look very different. Your bars look much higher on the cdale which will hide the hub more. You're lower on the flyer by the looks of it, your seat looks higher than the bars. The front hub is a guide for people, it isn't set in stone. 

Try flipping your stem that's on the flyer and having it higher and get as close as you can to the dimensions on the cdale if that's comfy for you. Measure from the saddle etc on the cdale to the hoods and get the heights on both bikes similar. It may just need the saddle moved backwards instead of a stem. Measure how far back the saddle is from the bb on the cdale and match it on the flyer. Can you try he stem from the cdale if it's longer?


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## mcb2080 (16 Sep 2012)

Thanks djb1971 for the reply.

The stem has already been flipped on the genesis so that it is at it's highest point.

Both saddle heights are almost bang on.

The stem on the cannon is 110, the same as the genesis, from looking at the pic the cannon does seem to have a higher lift on it.

I have moved the seat back to near the max allowed on the saddle and it does make a difference with viewing the front axle but my shoulders still feel a bit squashed.

Could it have something to do with the narrow handlebars, as I was out for a long ride on friday and saturday on the dale and it was soo comfy compared to the genesis?

I was out on the Genesis today and it is just a totaly different feeling and I know have a sore neck.

I am wondering if I need a higher lift stem rather than a longer stem

I am confused


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## djb1971 (16 Sep 2012)

Try to match the saddle-bar drop on the cdale with the flyer. Measure on a flat floor from the saddle top to the floor and the bar flat top to the floor. This'll be your drop. 

It may be a couple of inches on one and four on the other. This could be the problem. I try to run all of my drops the same height so that I'm always comfy. You will in time get used to the larger drop if you're flexible enough! 

Ensure you've not got too much weight on the bars and lift your eyes to look forward, don't keep your head lifted fully. You may just need to adapt to riding that drop more. If you're struggling get a good bike shop to help you fit the bike. Don't just buy stems etc. to make you fit it, they still may not work.


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## Old Plodder (17 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> Try to match the saddle-bar drop on the cdale with the flyer. Measure on a flat floor from the saddle top to the floor and the bar flat top to the floor. This'll be your drop.
> 
> It may be a couple of inches on one and four on the other. This could be the problem. I try to run all of my drops the same height so that I'm always comfy. You will in time get used to the larger drop if you're flexible enough!
> 
> Ensure you've not got too much weight on the bars and lift your eyes to look forward, don't keep your head lifted fully. You may just need to adapt to riding that drop more. If you're struggling get a good bike shop to help you fit the bike. Don't just buy stems etc. to make you fit it, they still may not work.


 
Good advice; & you can triangulate, measure from bottom bracket axle to saddle & bottom bracket to bars/stem, plus from seat post to bars/stem. Try to get them the same to maintain your comfortable position.
(In your photo, it looks like the (effective) top tubes are different lengths.)


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## mcb2080 (17 Sep 2012)

Cheers guys for the replies.

I will get the measurements up tomorrow, long day at work 

I take it the only way I can raise the handle bar height is to get a stem with a high degree, I have seen 6 and 10 degrees are there any higher than this or is that all I have to play with?

I take it I will need at least a 10 degree flip as there is probably a couple of inches betwen saddle height and handlebar height.

Thanks again


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

Right guys, here is my measurements
...........................................................Synapse......................... Genesis
Floor - Handle Bar............................ 38 inch............................ 35.5 inch
Floor - Saddle................................... 37 inch............................ 37.5 inch
Floor - Head Set Screw.....................36 inch.............................35 inch
Front Saddle - Front Handlebar........ 20 inch............................ 22 inch
BB - Top of Handle Bar.................... 32 inch............................. 31 inch
BB - Saddle Rail at Clamp................25.25 inch.........................26 inch

Handle Bar Hood to Hood..................44cm................................45.5cm

I thought my Genesis handle bars where a lot narrower but there isn't much in it.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

I have moved my Genesis saddle down half an inch and moved it forward to try and keep it in line with my Cannondale.

So I take it the stem is the key here, I need something that is going to have to lift the handle bars roughly 2.5 inches but keep the same reach to what I have the now?

I take it to work out a stem flip degree, you look at the big number advertised and take it away from 90 and that is the flip degree?

Cheers


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

You've got more of a drop on the flyer. It's not a massive amount, I'd suck it and see if you get used to it. My drop is over 4inches, it's what you get used to and feel comfy with. 

Ensure that your saddle is at the correct height! Measure from either the centre of the bb or the pedal axle to the top of the saddle, not the rails. Saddles are different sizes. 

Get your saddle height correct, measure your inseam correctly. Just google saddle height and there are places that show you how to use the 109% inseam and variants. Put your shoes on and sit on the bike, drop a line down from the knee cap and it should fall over the pedal axle when horizontal, again google will show you how. This has got to be correct. Once you've got the saddle measurement on one bike, match it on the other from the pedal axle to the top of saddle. Once these are right sit on the bike and hold the hoods in your normal riding position, you should have a slight bend in your elbow and no hunch in your back/shoulders. You can then match both bikes from this. If your knees hurt at the front saddle up, hurt on the back of the knee saddle down by about 3mm. Get these right before messing around. 

If you're unsure go to your lbs, they will help. They will see how you fit on and ride the bike. It's easy to see faults with fitting when you can see the pedals turning.


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

Are you sure the stem is flipped upwards on the flyer? It's hard to see on these pics, they're really small on my iPad.

Just noticed you want to lift the flyer bars to match the cdale. You don't!

The drop on the saddle bar drop on the cdale is 1inch. The drop is 2inches on the flyer, now 1.5inches because you've lowered your saddle. You're only .5 inches lower on the flyer. 

Get the saddle right, measure from the bb centre to top of saddle on both bikes and match them, again google saddle height.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

Cheers djb1971, yeah both the saddle heights are bang on from the floor to top of saddle, they are also the same on the rails, sadlles must be roughly same thickness.

I had initially only moved the saddle back on the genesis to try and not see the axle when on the hoods.

I am going to take it out for a run later and I will mess about with settings.

I will see what the drop is like once I have tried riding it in new postion.

Cheers for the tips regarding pedal axles, I will go and have a look at that.


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

mcb2080 said:


> Cheers djb1971, yeah both the saddle heights are bang on from the floor to top of saddle.



Read my post above this. 

You measure the saddle from the pedal axle or the bb centre to top of the saddle. Get it right or you will hurt your knees! The floor measurement was for the saddle bar drop on each bike. 

Like I say there isn't much difference in the drop now but fix the saddle height before anything.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> Are you sure the stem is flipped upwards on the flyer? It's hard to see on these pics, they're really small on my iPad.
> 
> Just noticed you want to lift the flyer bars to match the cdale. You don't!
> 
> ...


 
I am just uploading some pics the now, but yeah the bike shop flipped the stem for me.

Both my bikes have flipped stems and they are both 6 degrees but the cannondale just seems so much higher, I don't know if this is to do with frame geometry.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> Read my post above this.
> 
> You measure the saddle from the pedal axle or the bb centre to top of the saddle. Get it right or you will hurt your knees! The floor measurement was for the saddle bar drop on each bike.
> 
> Like I say there isn't much difference in the drop now but fix the saddle height before anything.


 
Both 27 inch from bb to saddle following the seat post as guidance.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)




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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

The stem on the flyer will be higher if you flip it over by the look of it. If you know how to turn it over and preload the headset try it. It will probably match the saddle to bar difference on your other bike.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> The stem on the flyer will be higher if you flip it over by the look of it. If you know how to turn it over and preload the headset try it. It will probably match the saddle to bar difference on your other bike.


 
djb1971, I said to the guy in bike shop that I wanted the stem higher and he flipped it.

But I take my hat off to you, I flipped it and it is higher, I will be having a word with the LBS

Edit, not sure on preload, but there is no rocking on the fork when I pull the front brake and the bars move freely enough from side to side so hope I done it ok

Pic to follow


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

Good 

It will match your cdale now. It will be higher and closer to the saddle like the cdale. 

I couldn't see the pictures the other day I was in the lake district relying on Vodafone connection on my iPad.


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

From this





To this






















Right I am happy with this, going to take it out for a quick spin to see how it feels.

Thanks again, you must be due a lot of good karma for keeping on answering my questions


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

Looks closer to the cdale , the saddle and bar levels look similar. 

Let's just hope it feels good now !


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

It bloody better or it's going on gumtree


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

My plan worked!

Let me know when it hits gumtree, I'll haggle a bit though because the bars are too low


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## mcb2080 (18 Sep 2012)

djb1971 said:


> My plan worked!
> 
> Let me know when it hits gumtree, I'll haggle a bit though because the bars are too low


 


I straightened out the bars so that the grip towards the hoods is horizontal, if that makes sense and all is good in the world

No more hunched over feeling.

Now next job......................


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## djb1971 (18 Sep 2012)

Glad it's sorted. At least you know you've not bought the wrong bike!

I'm going for a strong drink and a lie down now!


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## mcb2080 (2 Jun 2013)

Hi Guys, decided to give fixed a try after doing accreditation 1 and 2 at the Glasgow Velodrome.

I have a flip flop hub, so one side single the other side fixed.

I am currently running ss 46 x 17 the now, I am thinking of running 46 x 16 on the fixed side.

I am looking at a dura ace track ring http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=106993 

Would this be ok for the fixed side? would I also need a lock ring for it?

Cheers

Ps djb1971, you may need another strong drink and lie down by the time I have got my answer


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## mcb2080 (5 Jun 2013)

Got it sorted

Got a dura ace cog and lock ring and a park tool hcw 17, so think I am good to go fixed now :-)


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