# Kinda nervous for tommorrow commuting



## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Im going to take my bike for the first time to commute which is about 10 miles to marleybone.anything to look out for or any advice.also its ok for me to ride in the bus lane right?


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## Blue Hills (15 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> Im going to take my bike for the first time to commute which is about 10 miles to marleybone.anything to look out for or any advice.also its ok for me to ride in the bus lane right?


Congratulations - good move - yes you can ride in bus lanes (tho last time I checked so now can motorcyclists which I think a bad initiative) - I don't know if Park Lane is on your way but I quite like the newish cyclelane there.
Most London bus drivers are excellent with cyclists, though on one day I posted that comment on a forum I ended up in an altercation with one - an exception.
London is generally great for cycling despite what some outoftowners think - I'd be far more worried cycling in some rural areas.
Have a great ride in and out.


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## Blue Hills (15 Aug 2021)

oh - stay away from any cardoor opening zone - even if some dodgy painted cycle lane beckons you there.
Where are you cycling in from?
Which bridge will you be going over?


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Aug 2021)

Don’t try and squeeze into every gap particularly around buses and lorries at traffic lights. Consider if there are quieter back roads you can use if you don’t like the level of traffic. Be assertive in holding your position on the road. Allow plenty of time whilst you get used to it.


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## Arrowfoot (15 Aug 2021)

As this is the first ride, don't be shy to get off and walk the bike at difficult or unsure junctions etc. After a couple of rides you will be just fine.


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## I like Skol (15 Aug 2021)

Have you had a practice run? Before doing it for real I strongly suggest doing a dummy run on a none work day, maybe when traffic is a bit lighter, just so you can familiarise yourself with the route and junction layouts etc. Knowing in advance where you are going and which lane you need to be in can remove a lot of potential stress once the traffic levels increase.
Also, make sure you prepare everything the night before. Check your bike over and pack your bag as much as you can. Trying to faff about in the morning when you need to get out of the door is a real pain in the Arris! If you prepare the night before then you can simply get up, enjoy your coffee then go, simples... 👍
Final thing, how used to cycling on the roads are you? This will make a big difference to how calm your journey is. If you have only recently started cycling then the traffic and roads may be a bit if a shock to you. If you are an experienced road cyclist but just never bothered commuting by bike then it probably won't be such a shock.


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## I like Skol (15 Aug 2021)

Just to clarify, when I say prepare the night before I mean stuff like making your sandwiches, make sure the bike you will use is by the door, get your clothes out ready, etc.

Also, DO NOT travel without the kit and ability to fix a puncture. It WILL happen at some point, but the fix is relatively quick and easy so it doesn't have to ruin your day if you are prepared. If you are not sure how to do it then practice at home with the kit you will carry on the commute


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## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> Im going to take my bike for the first time to commute which is about 10 miles to marleybone.anything to look out for or any advice.also its ok for me to ride in the bus lane right?



Don't panic.

Also don't panic if it feels harder than you expected on day one: if you aren't used to riding ten miles it may be a shock, but riding gets easier as your body and brain get used to it; take your time. You'll learn what to look out for and probably find a few short cuts you aren't yet aware of in the first couple of weeks.

Over time you'll find you are more punctual than the people driving cars, feeling fitter and paying less than they are for the privilege.


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## Blue Hills (15 Aug 2021)

Sing a merry tune as you ride and pay homage to the fab 4.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbg8T9r1DiQ


It's such a cute station.

And learn to spell it!


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## vickster (15 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> Im going to take my bike for the first time to commute which is about 10 miles to marleybone.anything to look out for or any advice.also its ok for me to ride in the bus lane right?


Bus lanes, mostly yes but look at the signs and look out for buses pulling out. London bus drivers don’t always realise they’re meant to share bus lanes! Most are ok but some are awful, ditto black cab drivers who also don’t like to share road space!
Presumably you know where you’re going?
Allow at least half an hour more than you think you’ll need if you’ve not practised.
Also, if leaving a bike on the road or a not 100% secure work carpark, take two good locks to secure the bike, I’d also take the seat post and saddle with, makes a new bike far less attractive to a thief and you won’t come back to a saddle less bike!


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## MichaelW2 (15 Aug 2021)

Leave plenty of time. Dont rush.
Plan your route carefully. Look on the map for cycle routes and also quieter side roads. 
Identify pinch points that you cant avoid and think about how you position for safety.
Leave a big gap to the kerb and parked cars.
Overtaking stopped buses is a tricky one. Often better to let them start going rather than play overtake with them the whole way.

Left-turning big vehicles are a big danger. Never get on the left of left turning vehicles. Big ones pull out to the right before left turns and the rear wheels do not follow the front, they cut the corner.
Also potholes and lemming pedestrians.

Once you refine a good route and know the potholes and junctions it becomes much easier.


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## MichaelW2 (15 Aug 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Just to clarify, when I say prepare the night before I mean stuff like making your sandwiches, make sure the bike you will use is by the door, get your clothes out ready, etc.
> 
> Also, DO NOT travel without the kit and ability to fix a puncture. It WILL happen at some point, but the fix is relatively quick and easy so it doesn't have to ruin your day if you are prepared. If you are not sure how to do it then practice at home with the kit you will carry on the commute



If you cant fix your bike yet, a passing cyclist will probably help out. Having a spare inner tube and the right tools helps them. I always carry a bit of rag but you get hand cleanser sachets and rubber gloves now.


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## Sittingduck (15 Aug 2021)

Good luck, just use common sense and some caution. 10 miles is is great commute distance. Where abouts are you riding to MYB from? Plan a route and scope it out first on street view if you are in doubt. I miss not commuting it was the highlight of my pre WFH days.

better still try Ilikeskols idea, Sunday morning dry run sounds good shame it Sunday night now - go and try it now!?


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> Congratulations - good move - yes you can ride in bus lanes (tho last time I checked so now can motorcyclists which I think a bad initiative) - I don't know if Park Lane is on your way but I quite like the newish cyclelane there.
> Most London bus drivers are excellent with cyclists, though on one day I posted that comment on a forum I ended up in an altercation with one - an exception.
> London is generally great for cycling despite what some outoftowners think - I'd be far more worried cycling in some rural areas.
> Have a great ride in and out.


Ok thanks for the help and i will im nervous and excited lol


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> oh - stay away from any cardoor opening zone - even if some dodgy painted cycle lane beckons you there.
> Where are you cycling in from?
> Which bridge will you be going over?


Oh right yh ive seen vids where they talked about car doors.from leytonstone to marleybone


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Don’t try and squeeze into every gap particularly around buses and lorries at traffic lights. Consider if there are quieter back roads you can use if you don’t like the level of traffic. Be assertive in holding your position on the road. Allow plenty of time whilst you get used to it.


Right yh i dont think i will be that kinda person and try get into every gap id rather wait behind the car for a better oppurtunity.and ok thanks that does make sense


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> As this is the first ride, don't be shy to get off and walk the bike at difficult or unsure junctions etc. After a couple of rides you will be just fine.


Yh good advice thanks i think that could be something i would do if i need to


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Have you had a practice run? Before doing it for real I strongly suggest doing a dummy run on a none work day, maybe when traffic is a bit lighter, just so you can familiarise yourself with the route and junction layouts etc. Knowing in advance where you are going and which lane you need to be in can remove a lot of potential stress once the traffic levels increase.
> Also, make sure you prepare everything the night before. Check your bike over and pack your bag as much as you can. Trying to faff about in the morning when you need to get out of the door is a real pain in the Arris! If you prepare the night before then you can simply get up, enjoy your coffee then go, simples... 👍
> Final thing, how used to cycling on the roads are you? This will make a big difference to how calm your journey is. If you have only recently started cycling then the traffic and roads may be a bit if a shock to you. If you are an experienced road cyclist but just never bothered commuting by bike then it probably won't be such a shock.


Yh im not a experience road rider but thats a good plan but its going to be monday tommorrow and i could delay it but i think ill just try ride.if anything bad happens i could just leave my bike at work where its safe and then take the tube home or something but thanks.i have a rough idea of the route ill have to check my phone at a safe place a few times just in case and after that ill remember the route.


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Don't panic.
> 
> Also don't panic if it feels harder than you expected on day one: if you aren't used to riding ten miles it may be a shock, but riding gets easier as your body and brain get used to it; take your time. You'll learn what to look out for and probably find a few short cuts you aren't yet aware of in the first couple of weeks.
> 
> Over time you'll find you are more punctual than the people driving cars, feeling fitter and paying less than they are for the privilege.


Yh ur right im just nervous because ive heard cycling in london is bad and i dont wanna get into an altercation with anyone coz it will be annoy me for the rest of the day


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> Bus lanes, mostly yes but look at the signs and look out for buses pulling out. London bus drivers don’t always realise they’re meant to share bus lanes! Most are ok but some are awful, ditto black cab drivers who also don’t like to share road space!
> Presumably you know where you’re going?
> Allow at least half an hour more than you think you’ll need if you’ve not practised.
> Also, if leaving a bike on the road or a not 100% secure work carpark, take two good locks to secure the bike, I’d also take the seat post and saddle with, makes a new bike far less attractive to a thief and you won’t come back to a saddle less bike!


Yh thats a good plan but the work place will be ok to store the bike.i also trying to apply for a spot in the coucil bike storage places but im waiting for a response.


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Sittingduck said:


> Good luck, just use common sense and some caution. 10 miles is is great commute distance. Where abouts are you riding to MYB from? Plan a route and scope it out first on street view if you are in doubt. I miss not commuting it was the highlight of my pre WFH days.
> 
> better still try Ilikeskols idea, Sunday morning dry run sounds good shame it Sunday night now - go and try it now!?


Thanks i was nervous its too much.from leytonstone to marleybone.ive checked street virw and there a couple of cycle lanes i just wish there were more.do u think more will be added soon?


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## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> Thanks i was nervous its too much.from leytonstone to marleybone.ive checked street virw and there a couple of cycle lanes i just wish there were more.do u think more will be added soon?



Probably, but not by tomorrow.


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Probably, but not by tomorrow.


Haha yeah i heard there gonna make more cycle lanes


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## Andy in Germany (15 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> Yh ur right im just nervous because ive heard cycling in london is bad and i dont wanna get into an altercation with anyone coz it will be annoy me for the rest of the day



The solution is to smile, keep calm and wave.

It keeps you calm and annoys aggressive drivers more than anything else you could try...












...apart from blowing a kiss...


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> The solution is to smile, keep calm and wave.
> 
> It keeps you calm and annoys aggressive drivers more than anything else you could try...
> 
> ...


Hah yeah got it,i think blowing a kiss would send the wrong message😂


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## vickster (15 Aug 2021)

Must be a pretty flat ride, there are a few CSs going East to West
The TFL site enables London cycle route planning
Eg https://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/r...iModalCall=false&isEarlierLaterAjaxCall=false


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## MichaelW2 (15 Aug 2021)

Letonstone route can go along Regents Canal to The Angel


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

vickster said:


> Must be a pretty flat ride, there are a few CSs going East to West
> The TFL site enables London cycle route planning
> Eg https://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/results?InputFrom=Leytonstone High Road Rail Station&FromId=1001179&InputTo=Marylebone&ToId=1000145&app_id=8268063a&app_key=14f7f5ff5d64df2e88701cef2049c804&JourneyPreference=leasttime&bikeProficiency=moderate&Mode=cycle&CyclePreference=AllTheWay&JpType=cycling&iscyclehire=false&isMultipleJourneySelection=true&journeytype=Cycling&useMultiModalCall=false&isEarlierLaterAjaxCall=false


Yeah i checked it out i the way i found here is better coz its alot of cycle lanes.and to be more exact i go from leyton to marleybone i shouldnt of said leytonstone


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## Seevio (15 Aug 2021)

If you are not used to cycling, don't push yourself.

You still have to go to work the day after. And the next day etc. It is not a race. You get no prizes for getting to work a little faster. If you still want to be able to walk up stairs by Friday, take it steady. Some people will be faster than you. Let them go.


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

Seevio said:


> If you are not used to cycling, don't push yourself.
> 
> You still have to go to work the day after. And the next day etc. It is not a race. You get no prizes for getting to work a little faster. If you still want to be able to walk up stairs by Friday, take it steady. Some people will be faster than you. Let them go.


Yeah thats true i wont ill stick to 2 front gear and make sure im not pedalling too hard lol


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## Trekman083637 (15 Aug 2021)

I dont think ill commute to work on monday because of work theres alot of things im nervous about and the boss is gonna be there so im gonna wait until tuesday to go.im kinda confused to on what route to actually go coz ive seen a few but its hard to decide aswell


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## RoubaixCube (16 Aug 2021)

Having cycled 7-8miles from north london into holborn and reverse for the longest time. One of the best words of advice is to keep your head on a swivel and *shoulder check.*

Depending on the time of day you commute, you'll need to pay attention to pedestrians as well as some of them have the habit of stepping out in front of oncoming traffic without looking or running through the gaps between vehicles while at traffic lights. Other cyclists can occasionally pose another risk as their heads are glued on to face one direction and dont shoulder check *AT ALL* or some of them might be too close for you to pull out and you end up making contact with them and knocking them off their bike.

While most drivers are generally polite and let you be on your way. Ive had quite a few of them try to run me off the road or not give way leaving me in a rather troublesome spot of slamming on my brakes to avoid crashing into the vehicle in front rather than give way and let me pull out.

But i share other peoples opinions. Ride the route on your days off to familiarise yourself with the route and the general environment.

Be particularly weary of big vehicles like HGVs, Busses/coaches, tipper lorrys, vehicles loaded up with construction materials at traffic lights as you never know if they will turn into your path and its best to *stay behind them* at traffic lights. Dont feel that you have to squeeze through the smallest gap just to get to the front of the queue, you might get lucky doing it once or twice but it is really dangerous and wont end well for you.

If a really long vehicle passes you. Slow down just in case the nutter tries to squeeze you to the kerb - This happens to me often and its even more important that you do this if there is a left turn coming up.

Be alert.


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## Blue Hills (16 Aug 2021)

Great advice from @RoubaixCube on shoulder checking - lots, though no need to be nervous. Also be wary of the odd idiot cyclist trying to come through on the inside. Look well before moving out, signal clearly just as in a car - a fair few cyclists don't, leave them to it.


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## MichaelW2 (16 Aug 2021)

You can practice part of the route after work


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## Andy in Germany (16 Aug 2021)

Trekman083637 said:


> I dont think ill commute to work on monday because of work theres alot of things im nervous about and the boss is gonna be there so im gonna wait until tuesday to go.*im kinda confused to on what route to actually go coz ive seen a few but its hard to decide aswell*



Try one, if you don't like it, try another. You'll find the best way for you. 

There's a couple of places where I have a choice: generally I take the longer but more pretty route; I know other cyclists who charge along the straight line; go with what works.


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## Sharky (16 Aug 2021)

Now retired, but on my final commute, used to take the direct route into work and a much more scenic/pleasant route on the way back, although distance wise, it was only a few extra miles, but it seemed like a lot after a days work.


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## slowmotion (16 Aug 2021)

Don't be too nervous. The vast majority of London drivers are completely used to being amongst cyclists and are extremely courteous. People have covered most of the main points like shoulder checking, door zone and left-turning vehicles etc. My only contribution would be to be very careful when turning turning right across heavy traffic. Sometimes an on-coming driver will flash you to indicate that it's safe to cross his lane. Just be sure that there isn't a car coming up on his inside that you can't see, and who hasn't seen you.


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## Blue Hills (16 Aug 2021)

thank any drivers who do you a favour - good for your mood - nice beginning or end to cycling day. I give them the palm.

For the not as good drivers, the ones who may try to sneak out of a side road in front of you, I can recommend a judicious wobble, at least of the bars, and give the impression that you are accelerating (while covering your brakes) - in their defence some drivers still don't realise how fast a cyclist can be.


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## presta (16 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> I can recommend a judicious wobble, at least of the bars, and give the impression that you are accelerating


Wobbling to make yourself look incompetent can be very effective too, if you want drivers to leave more room.


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## Andy in Germany (16 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> thank any drivers who do you a favour - good for your mood - nice beginning or end to cycling day. I give them the palm.



Absolutely. It also means that for the next five minutes at least they have a vaguely positive idea about cyclists, which means hopefully they will give the next one a bit more space or time...



Blue Hills said:


> For the not as good drivers, the ones who may try to sneak out of a side road in front of you, I can recommend a judicious wobble, at least of the bars, and give the impression that you are accelerating (while covering your brakes) - in their defence some drivers still don't realise how fast a cyclist can be.






presta said:


> Wobbling to make yourself look incompetent can be very effective too, if you want drivers to leave more room.



Yes but... To do that safely you need to be really sure that you have control of the bike and know how it will react/brake in different conditions. Maybe one to try after a few months experience...


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## Trekman083637 (16 Aug 2021)

Andy in Germany said:


> Try one, if you don't like it, try another. You'll find the best way for you.
> 
> There's a couple of places where I have a choice: generally I take the longer but more pretty route; I know other cyclists who charge along the straight line; go with what works.


Yh got it ill try each route


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## Trekman083637 (16 Aug 2021)

RoubaixCube said:


> Having cycled 7-8miles from north london into holborn and reverse for the longest time. One of the best words of advice is to keep your head on a swivel and *shoulder check.*
> 
> Depending on the time of day you commute, you'll need to pay attention to pedestrians as well as some of them have the habit of stepping out in front of oncoming traffic without looking or running through the gaps between vehicles while at traffic lights. Other cyclists can occasionally pose another risk as their heads are glued on to face one direction and dont shoulder check *AT ALL* or some of them might be too close for you to pull out and you end up making contact with them and knocking them off their bike.
> 
> ...


Yeah thanks thats good advice,ive seen vids on cars and so i think i know what to do and ur right about big cars passing you and slowing down so they dont hit u.i guess you really do have to be alert and aware just likr driving a car tbh


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## Trekman083637 (16 Aug 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> thank any drivers who do you a favour - good for your mood - nice beginning or end to cycling day. I give them the palm.
> 
> For the not as good drivers, the ones who may try to sneak out of a side road in front of you, I can recommend a judicious wobble, at least of the bars, and give the impression that you are accelerating (while covering your brakes) - in their defence some drivers still don't realise how fast a cyclist can be.


Yeah thats something thats good to do.haha yeah its coz they dont realise because of how much faster they go


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## jay clock (6 Nov 2021)

did you ever get to do it?


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## Sharky (6 Nov 2021)

The OP has not been seen since Auguse and was only around for 18 days.
Yet his tag is "Regular".
Would be good if the software could automatically tag a person as "Gone" or "Not seen for ages" or "closed" or in some cases "Left the building". A rule could be built from the date joined, the date last seen and today's date? 

Just a thought
@Moderators


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Nov 2021)

Blue Hills said:


> some drivers still don't realise how fast a cyclist can be.



Cyclists shouldn't be riding fast in busy urban conditions - simple as that. The ones that do are reckless idiots and sooner or later they'll end up having a coming together with another cyclist, a scooter, a pedestrian, going over the bonnet of a car or ending up under a truck.
I've witnessed loads of incidents over the years that simply wouldn't have happened if the rider had been taking it easy as they would have had more reaction time and wouldn't have been pushing their luck in the first place trying to squeeze through small gaps and overtake buses that had started to pull out from a stop.


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## Blue Hills (6 Nov 2021)

Nothing wrong with cycling at a decent speed skipdiver, I don't break speed limits and I guess few do. Cycling recklessly is an entirely different matter. I have no intention of pandering to some drivers mistaken ideas that I should be going at something just above walking pace. Why should I? Or anyone else? I'm not fast but if you want to ride at an even more stately pace,that's entirely up to you.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Nov 2021)

Riding on a decent stretch of clear road with good visibility is a very different thing to mixing it up with heavy traffic flows where you've got multiple traffic lanes and multiple traffic light junctions or roundabouts all closely spaced together.
It's nothing short of suicidal trying to be pushy when you've got all sorts of different types of vehicles coming from all directions and wanting to change lanes ready for the next set of lights where they may be turning off. Unrealistic expectations of average speeds and journey times don't help. I base getting around anywhere in London on an average of about 10 mph, and no more. Sometimes I can better that without taking chances but most times when you factor in the stopping and starting and holding back so you don't get taken out by 40ft artic trailer or a cement mixer on a corner, the average will rarely break into double digits.


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## Sittingduck (6 Nov 2021)

What a crock


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## ianrauk (6 Nov 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Riding on a decent stretch of clear road with good visibility is a very different thing to mixing it up with heavy traffic flows where you've got multiple traffic lanes and multiple traffic light junctions or roundabouts all closely spaced together.
> It's nothing short of suicidal trying to be pushy when you've got all sorts of different types of vehicles coming from all directions and wanting to change lanes ready for the next set of lights where they may be turning off. Unrealistic expectations of average speeds and journey times don't help. I base getting around anywhere in London on an average of about 10 mph, and no more. Sometimes I can better that without taking chances but most times when you factor in the stopping and starting and holding back so you don't get taken out by 40ft artic trailer or a cement mixer on a corner, the average will rarely break into double digits.


As a London commuter since the 80's, I agree with Mr @Sittingduck, A crock. Complete nonsense.


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## RoubaixCube (6 Nov 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I base getting around anywhere in London on an average of about 10 mph, and no more



This is very much the case if youre in a big motorised vehicle. However I average 15-16mph around london but others will probably be much faster. I think i started commuting on a bicycle in late 2014 or 2015 and im still doing it. Cycling is definitely the best way and the fastest way (so long you got the stamina) to get around london if you dont mind the weather and getting a bit sweaty.

Its not the absolute hell you describe it to be.


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## cougie uk (6 Nov 2021)

RoubaixCube said:


> This is very much the case if youre in a big motorised vehicle. However I average 15-16mph around london but others will probably be much faster. I think i started commuting on a bicycle in late 2014 or 2015 and im still doing it. Cycling is definitely the best way and the fastest way (so long you got the stamina) to get around london if you dont mind the weather and getting a bit sweaty.
> 
> Its not the absolute hell you describe it to be.



Is that your moving average or distance/time ? 
A mate of mine has autopause on his Garmin so it only records above a certain speed. As a result he was doing the same rides as me but always finishing with a higher average.


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## RoubaixCube (6 Nov 2021)

cougie uk said:


> Is that your moving average or distance/time ?
> A mate of mine has autopause on his Garmin so it only records above a certain speed. As a result he was doing the same rides as me but always finishing with a higher average.



my _average moving speed_ is 15-16mph. My _average_ is 14mph. top speed 23-25mph - depending on the conditions. _Total ride time_ - 1hr8mins. _Total moving time_ - 1:02:49 

The lost minutes is where i get stuck at traffic lights. And yes, i use the autopause feature too.


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## I like Skol (6 Nov 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Cyclists shouldn't be riding fast in busy urban conditions - simple as that. The ones that do are reckless idiots and sooner or later they'll end up having a coming together with another cyclist, a scooter, a pedestrian, going over the bonnet of a car or ending up under a truck.
> I've witnessed loads of incidents over the years that simply wouldn't have happened if the rider had been taking it easy as they would have had more reaction time and wouldn't have been pushing their luck in the first place trying to squeeze through small gaps and overtake buses that had started to pull out from a stop.


You been drinking early today Skippy?

The most absolute time that I feel safe on the road and I am most unlikely to have any 'incidents' with fellow road users is when I am maintaining pace with the traffic and fitting in with the flow.

Maybe this is just me who is an ingrained motorist as well as a Lifetime cyclist?


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## Solocle (8 Nov 2021)

I like Skol said:


> You been drinking early today Skippy?
> 
> The most absolute time that I feel safe on the road and I am most unlikely to have any 'incidents' with fellow road users is when I am maintaining pace with the traffic and fitting in with the flow.
> 
> Maybe this is just me who is an ingrained motorist as well as a Lifetime cyclist?


Indeed. Yesterday I cycled on the A23 approaching Brighton. 3 lane dual carriageway, 70 mph speed limit! Well, the left lane had been coned off for veteran cars, a potential refuge. However, I quickly realised that the traffic speed was low, 20-30 mph. So I accelerated to 30 mph. I filtered when speeds dipped briefly, but twice an approaching braking wave was propogating backward towards me, and there was a big gap in the outside lane, so I moved to that and overtook, before returning to the left lane as speeds picked up again.

Intense, but absoutely great fun! Had the traffic been doing 40-70 mph, then it would have been completely and utterly terrifying (except for the aforementioned coned off lane).


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## ianrauk (8 Nov 2021)

Solocle said:


> Indeed. Yesterday I cycled on the A23 approaching Brighton. 3 lane dual carriageway, 70 mph speed limit! Well, the left lane had been coned off for veteran cars, a potential refuge. However, I quickly realised that the traffic speed was low, 20-30 mph. So I accelerated to 30 mph. I filtered when speeds dipped briefly, but twice an approaching braking wave was propogating backward towards me, and there was a big gap in the outside lane, so I moved to that and overtook, before returning to the left lane as speeds picked up again.
> 
> Intense, but absoutely great fun! Had the traffic been doing 40-70 mph, then it would have been completely and utterly terrifying (except for the aforementioned coned off lane).
> View attachment 616999


I've done that A23 dash a couple of times whilst doing this ride...heart stopping.


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## Solocle (8 Nov 2021)

ianrauk said:


> I've done that A23 dash a couple of times whilst doing this ride...heart stopping.


Fortunately I got lucky with the traffic, and unleashed my inner time trialist.


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## classic33 (14 Nov 2021)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Riding on a decent stretch of clear road with good visibility is a very different thing to mixing it up with heavy traffic flows where you've got multiple traffic lanes and multiple traffic light junctions or roundabouts all closely spaced together.
> It's nothing short of suicidal trying to be pushy when you've got all sorts of different types of vehicles coming from all directions and wanting to change lanes ready for the next set of lights where they may be turning off. Unrealistic expectations of average speeds and journey times don't help. I base getting around anywhere in London on an average of about 10 mph, and no more. Sometimes I can better that without taking chances but most times when you factor in the stopping and starting and holding back so you don't get taken out by 40ft artic trailer or a cement mixer on a corner, the average will rarely break into double digits.


What you're saying then is either 
We as cyclists, slow down and get out of the way of motor vehicles. Even if we need to be in a particular lane for our own safety. Or
That as cyclists, who cycle at similar speed to other traffic on the roads are putting ourselves in harms(and the motorists) way by virtue of being in the correct lane. Being on the left and intending to turn right across one, let alone more lane(s) of traffic is suicidal*.


*My opinion only of course, based on what you posted.


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## tinywheels (27 Jan 2022)

wow some forthright opinions here chaps. 
as a London cyclist since 1965,I can say the roads are faster and potentially more dangerous. 
It's no surprise that some accidents occur, many riders seem to have left their senses at home.
proceed with caution, natural selection will take care of the others. 
it's gonna be interesting to see how highway code changes pan out.
Remember it's not much good arguing when your on the ground, with a shattered pelvis, but your ankle is facing the wrong way. 
ride carefully, or you may regret it.


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## taximan (27 Jan 2022)

I take off my cap to you guys who have to cycle in London, or any other city for that matter. I think I am better suited to pottering around in the depths of darkest Yorkshire


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## ClichéGuevara (27 Jan 2022)

taximan said:


> I take off my cap to you guys who have to cycle in London, or any other city for that matter. I think I am better suited to pottering around in the depths of darkest Yorkshire


Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?


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## Blue Hills (27 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?


yes they are.
London cycling is pretty calmed.
Always seems to me that Tower Bridge is the safest bridge to go over - little chance of the cars doing anything unexpected.


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## taximan (27 Jan 2022)

Oh I don't know about that


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2022)

ClichéGuevara said:


> Aren't rural roads statistically more dangerous?



Rural A & B apparently not sure about C roads and unclassified. I doubt they have reliable sample sizes on these minor roads.


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

One piece of advice: if your route leads through any remote/quiet/poorly lit sections of the canals or industrial and other potentially dodgy areas (not to mention outright crime hotspots!), steer clear, particularly if you see any suspect types. Google your route from that perspective. Don't assume that it should be OK if you don't look like a worthy target. Your karate won't be much good against 4 armed gangbangers.


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2022)

Etern4l said:


> One piece of advice: if your route leads through any remote/quiet/poorly lit sections of the canals or industrial and other potentially dodgy areas (not to mention outright crime hotspots!), steer clear, particularly if you see any suspect types. Google your route from that perspective. Don't assume that it should be OK if you don't look like a worthy target.



Erm like most of my route then !  Of the 13 miles I'd consider about 8 of them 'dodgy'. Clayton isn't the most salubrious places. I have a couple of dodgy canal bridges, especially those next to a lock, and in summer there is usually a few guys smoking and drinking under them - I generally go through at a rate of knots. (I appreciate where you are coming from having been attacked on a canal). 

We've also a fairly good 'old railway' that runs east/west, about 3-4 miles south of the city, which must stretch 10 miles. It's a bit like the M1 for bikes and pedestrians, called The Fallowfield Loop. It's also got a reputation for muggings despite the relatively high traffic, and even at rush hour, or middle of the day. I've had a colleague nearly jumped, but they just clipped his head as they tried to punch him off his bike - he stopped and was about to give chase, then 'thought about it'.

Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.


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## Blue Hills (18 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.


Agree about the London/Manchester comparison. I do use the A56 sometimes, including the temporary cycle lane (not sure if still there) but did almost get a very extreme clip there once by a van driver overtaking and then exiting just in front of me. Personally I find the centre of Manchester a bit of a pig because of the trams (though I like trams) - I usually try to be on fatter tyres. There doesn't seem to be much cycling infrastructure at all in the centre - I thought they were supposed to be doing something about it?


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## fossyant (18 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Agree about the London/Manchester comparison. I do use the A56 sometimes, including the temporary cycle lane (not sure if still there) but did almost get a very extreme clip there once by a van driver overtaking and then exiting just in front of me. Personally I find the centre of Manchester a bit of a pig because of the trams (though I like trams) - I usually try to be on fatter tyres. There doesn't seem to be much cycling infrastructure at all in the centre - I thought they were supposed to be doing something about it?



No, the infrastructure isn't good. You've a lane on Oxford Road that's OK if you are just pootling - really don't want to be doing any speed - use the road as it's busses only now !

I have a bit of a 'pig' getting across the tracks near Piccadilly Station - road route is just clogged and not good for filtering, and the 'shared' path is a pavement, so the 100 yards or so I use to cross the tram tracks, you've got to take slow.


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## T4tomo (18 Feb 2022)

taximan said:


> Oh I don't know about that


https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/beggars-bridge-jpg.628492/

Ah my home "town" bridge. Limber hill home was it @taximan?


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

fossyant said:


> Erm like most of my route then !  Of the 13 miles I'd consider about 8 of them 'dodgy'. Clayton isn't the most salubrious places. I have a couple of dodgy canal bridges, especially those next to a lock, and in summer there is usually a few guys smoking and drinking under them - I generally go through at a rate of knots. (I appreciate where you are coming from having been attacked on a canal).
> 
> We've also a fairly good 'old railway' that runs east/west, about 3-4 miles south of the city, which must stretch 10 miles. It's a bit like the M1 for bikes and pedestrians, called The Fallowfield Loop. It's also got a reputation for muggings despite the relatively high traffic, and even at rush hour, or middle of the day. I've had a colleague nearly jumped, but they just clipped his head as they tried to punch him off his bike - he stopped and was about to give chase, then 'thought about it'.
> 
> Cycling in London is far safer then in other big cities, say Manchester. whilst Manchester centre is OK if busy, the main commute roads in and out are pretty bad as we just don't have a critical mass of cyclists so you get 'overlooked'. I've had too many accidents on commuting routes caused by driver's poor attention. You aren't even safe on the cycle lanes as these are generally ignored by drivers as the roads aren't wide enough.



Harlesden is really bad:

https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/harlesden

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/harlsesden-shooting-cctv-footage-police-b954593.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/police-cctv-london-harlesden-old-bailey-b938614.html

Not long ago it was basically a gun crime ghetto warzone. I imagine it would take a massive police deployment in "PC-off" mode to pacify and reclaim the rotten area. Not going to happen obviously, particularly under the current leadership of the city.

If we are looking for comforting comparisons, I would recommend "BAC NORD" / "The Stronghold", which suggests things are even worse in... Marseille!



Edit: Although we might get away with finding solace in the Birmingham situation:

https://road.cc/content/news/birmingham-cyclist-attacked-gang-violent-bikejacking-287081
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...ine-terror-birmingham-canal-towpaths-21870847

Edit 2: I remember reading about a woman getting thrown into the canal, then gangraped after she managed to get out. I thought it was Birmingham, but wait - no, London again (20 years ago though, phew).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...raped-after-being-thrown-in-canal-706843.html


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

"What has West Midlands Police said?​




*Police patrols* on the Birmingham to Fazeley canal in Erdington have been *stepped up* and cyclists *have been warned *to be vigilant after a masked gang robbed two bikes from riders (Image: Erdington Police/West Midlands Police)
*Canal towpaths are a priority for high visibility reassurance patrols*, according to Sergeant Alan Davis from the Yardley Neighbourhood team.

Requests to cut bushes back on certain pathways have been made to help with visibility and the police are working alongside the Canal and River Trust."

From : https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...ine-terror-birmingham-canal-towpaths-21870847

Well, so much for consoling ourselves with the situation in Birmingham! Never seen any high viz police, community support officers, or due warnings around the canals in London, despite incidents like the below happening:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...-into-canal-in-spate-of-attacks-a3197896.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15937786/womans-body-canal-london-dead/

Anyway, good luck to you @fossyant, and anyone else testing themselves on remote dodgy routes. I had a good run too, but obviously in the hindsight I would not have been using the particularly suspect parts of "green cycleways" (as Grand Union Canal towpaths are designated on the TfL website!!), certainly not at night, no matter how many lumens the bike headlights are packing - it won't help!


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> yes they are.
> London cycling is pretty calmed.
> Always seems to me that Tower Bridge is the safest bridge to go over - little chance of the cars doing anything unexpected.



Yeah, it's really calm over on the towpaths mate  I mean seriously, I'm all for reasonably talking up the town, but "pretty calmed" is just not an accurate description, unless perhaps someone's commute is between Ken and Mayfair or Belgravia via the parks! Yes, I'm sure there are far worse places to cycle (I don't know, Cairo or Istanbul spring to mind somehow), but things are far from ideal in Greater London.


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## Blue Hills (18 Feb 2022)

Etern4l said:


> "What has West Midlands Police said?​
> View attachment 631592
> 
> *Police patrols* on the Birmingham to Fazeley canal in Erdington have been *stepped up* and cyclists *have been warned *to be vigilant after a masked gang robbed two bikes from riders (Image: Erdington Police/West Midlands Police)
> ...


hang about - that first London story is 6 years old.
The second tragic story - woman found dead in canal - no info on how she ended up there.
Yes you need to be careful on towpaths and I wouldn't really normally ride them at/after dusk* but a bit of perspective please.

* I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> hang about - that first London story is 6 years old.
> The second tragic story - woman found dead in canal - no info on how she ended up there.
> Yes you need to be careful on towpaths and I wouldn't really normally ride them at/after dusk* but a bit of perspective please.
> 
> * I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.



Which story? About the cyclist killed by a HGV in Harlesden less than a year ago?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html

Yes, some stories are older than others, it's just the first couple of google hits. I'm sure there are loads more, particularly the less serious cases where people just got mugged or hit by cards. Anecdotes of cyclists suffering in accidents are fairly common in my experience, e.g. a colleague suffered a Central London hit-and-run in December. Obviously, this is unlikely to make an press headline.



Blue Hills said:


> * I did once do a very long nightime ride fully loaded along canals around and through stoke though - never saw a soul.



LOL, seriously - once? That proves it then! I got attacked after about 50 rides over the route, probably 15-20 at night. So about 2-6% probability of getting assaulted, depending on how we count. Is this "safe enough"? Hell no, with regular commuting 2-3 times a week, that would mean an assault every couple of months!

BTW The fact that you never saw a soul just means that if you did get assaulted, you would be done - no help would be likely to come your way.


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## Blue Hills (18 Feb 2022)

Etern4l said:


> Which story? About the cyclist killed by a HGV in Harlesden less than a year ago?
> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...run-willesden-junction-harlesdon-b924647.html
> 
> Yes, some stories are older than others, it's just the first couple of google hits. I'm sure there are loads more, particularly the less serious cases where people just got mugged or hit by cards. Anecdotes of cyclists suffering in accidents are fairly common in experience, a colleague suffered a Central London hit-and-run in December. Obviously, this is unlikely to make an press headline.
> ...


i said I wouldn't generally ride such places at night.
Hell I even avoid the Surrey Canal Peckham at night and that's filled in. (I ride it very early in the morning sometimes though - safer I think)
the london story I was referring to was the story you quoted about the bloke chucked in the Grand Union.
6 years old.

Be careful/sensible out there folks - I'll leave you to google horror stories.


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## Etern4l (18 Feb 2022)

Blue Hills said:


> Be careful/sensible out there folks



That's the intended message really. As we know, there are 3 major crime ingredients: motive, means and opportunity. We can take the first two for granted, that leaves the opportunity. I would advise commuters to review their routes by asking themselves questions like:

* Does the given route feature any particularly opportune assault spots or not?
* What would I do if I got attacked in this spot?

The problem is that few people really bother to think through such questions, particularly in absence of any glaring/official warning signs or other major hints, and given reassuring, even if occasional, presence of some other cyclists on the route. I know I didn't! After all, if TfL endorses/maintains a route, it must be well policed and safe!

Edit: OTOH not sure, how to be careful and sensible w.r.t. to potentially getting creamed by a HGV or suffering a hit-and-run, other than just avoiding the roads altogether. Any tips other than reflective clothing and good lights?


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