# Best way to navigate a 50 mile ride...?



## TomHenshore (3 Aug 2015)

Hi all,

Next Saturday I've planned for a mate and I to ride a route I've planned that's just under 50 miles. I've had training in route planning in the past as I'm a qualified ride leader, but I've never actually planned a route where i'm unfamiliar with the roads before...

The roads are all decent b-roads, most of which happen to be on national cycle routes anyway, but my question is what would be the best way to navigate when on the bike...? Are there any decent Apps out there that can act as a cycling-sat-nav? Would just simple route cards hanging around my neck be enough...? What are your experiences?

I'm all up for an adventure and getting _slightly_ lost, but I would also like to get home for dinner...

Thanks in advance :-)


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## coffeejo (3 Aug 2015)

I'll let others comment on digital navigation but before I got my Garmin, I used to use ordnance survey maps to plot the route and Google Street View to check out each junction and would write out a route card based on each turning. This would involve the usual "left, signposted x and y" but also stuff like "right at the pink house with the skylight" or "first left after the narrow bridge with the warning sign". I'd memorise as much of this as I could, and also take a copy with the relevant os map.


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## Milkfloat (3 Aug 2015)

I plan a route via Strava - then export the file to use either on a Garmin device or more commonly using the free version of OsmAnd and my phone


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## gavroche (3 Aug 2015)

What happened to old fashion signposts? Have they all been removed in the name of progress so that we all need gps wherever we go? All you need is the name of the places you will go through and anyway, you are only going 25 miles away from home, not hundreds. Enjoy your ride and don't worry .


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## snorri (3 Aug 2015)

Unless your route is in a heavily built up area throughout I would think you could memorise the route easily, perhaps with the help of some brief written notes


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## TomHenshore (3 Aug 2015)

Signposts...? What are these '_Signposts_' you speak of...? 

I'm taking a train to my mate's house and then it's 50 miles back to mine, so it's only the first 30 miles or so that are the problem. I'll giving writing my own route cards a go and spend some time with Google Street view, sounds wise. I'm sure there's not harm in using Apple maps if I get super lost


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## drummerbod (3 Aug 2015)

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mytrails-gpsies.181113/


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## MichaelW2 (3 Aug 2015)

A map holder really speeds up navigation. 
On occasion i use a small button compass, usually in a forest road on a cloudy day.
Most riders have a slew of regular routed they use and remember. I like to make variations around my regular routes, so carry a 1: 50,000 OS map. In areas of dense country lane networks, you will find yourself slowing down a lot.


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## mjr (3 Aug 2015)

TomHenshore said:


> what would be the best way to navigate when on the bike...? Are there any decent Apps out there that can act as a cycling-sat-nav?


I'm another happy OsmAnd~ voice navigation user (earpiece needed in cities). I've had one wrong turn where the road markings and OsmAnd~ disagreed about what "straight on" was, but it's pretty consistently good.



gavroche said:


> What happened to old fashion signposts? Have they all been removed in the name of progress so that we all need gps wherever we go?


I think they've been removed in the name of making money from scrap metal (often "unofficially" IYSWIM), discouraging nobber motorists from using tiny country roads (the rise of the "By Road" finger sign) and the cutting of council tax so they can't replace them as fast as they're damaged by crashing motorists, incompetent hedge-flailing and so on.

Oh the time when I could navigate Milton Keynes by the redway signposts alone... actually, I stopped doing that when one had been nicked for use to prop up someone's washing line and I had no idea which route was which!


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## gavroche (3 Aug 2015)

Years ago, before the coming of gps, my brother found his way out of Paris by using only a compass. It worked then and would work now just the same. Incidentally, I always carry one in my car although my car has built in GPS. For some reason, I don't carry one on my bike but then, I tend to follow routes I know well.


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## w00hoo_kent (3 Aug 2015)

Before I bought a GPS I'd write notes on a piece of paper, remember what I could and shove it in my pocket. I'd be navigating out of London using that. My notes would be total distance, split distance, Thing, instructions, how long to next thing. The bike had a computer on so I could count miles.

So something like -
23 4 Roundabout 3rd exit 2
25 2 Sherwood Rd left 0.5
25.5 etc etc.

I'd then have a flow through streetview and check the route, add in anything useful. So 'towards Ilford' perhaps as a final note. Worked very well, partly thanks to streetview, partly thanks to the repetition of creating the notes making it easier to remember.

I've successfully navigated from Greenwich to Chelmsford using that method. I was commuting in behind a guy once who had a similar set up hanging out of his back pocket, one page seemed to be sufficient to get him to Leicester, and I was following him in Swanley.

Now I use MapMyRide, send it to my Touring and follow it. I run the GPS (where there is a choice) North Up so it's obvious if the route is doing something odd and could do with checking.


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## TomHenshore (3 Aug 2015)

Well I've gone through the route and made notes for each of the turnings, most of it is straightforward and the not-so-straighfoward turns I'll try to memorise so I should be fine. If only Strava built in a turn by turn audio feature into their app.... Ah well, Guess I'll have to use my brain!

I'll look into OsmAnd...


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## Markymark (3 Aug 2015)

gavroche said:


> What happened to old fashion signposts? Have they all been removed in the name of progress so that we all need gps wherever we go? All you need is the name of the places you will go through and anyway, you are only going 25 miles away from home, not hundreds. Enjoy your ride and don't worry .


Troubke is sign posts are usually car focused and can take you on A roads you might preferred to have avoided.


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## w00hoo_kent (3 Aug 2015)

0-markymark-0 said:


> Troubke is sign posts are usually car focused and can take you on A roads you might preferred to have avoided.


I tried following Sustran ones once, took me out on to the Thames marshes past a sewage works and all the tarmac disappeared. I was a less than happy pixie. Just pleased I wasn't on the Roadie, less happy about the 7 miles it added to my ride.


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## mjr (3 Aug 2015)

w00hoo_kent said:


> I tried following Sustran ones once, took me out on to the Thames marshes past a sewage works and all the tarmac disappeared. I was a less than happy pixie. Just pleased I wasn't on the Roadie, less happy about the 7 miles it added to my ride.


One of the best things about http://cycle.travel/map is that hard-top routes are solid lines and rough stuff is dashed and it weights them in a way that works for me. Some are wrong but it's fairly easy to edit openstreetmap.org to change them.

Unsurfaced junk and motorist-jammed booby traps are both excellent reasons for using a satnav. Avoiding long detours after you're tricked into a booby trap is another one.



gavroche said:


> I tend to follow routes I know well.


Sounds awfully dull if you never go exploring. I'm still discovering new wonderful sights within a few miles of home.


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## TomHenshore (3 Aug 2015)

Ah, sadly OsmAnd doesn't have all the functionality on apple devices that it does on Android. No routing features, it's just a big map!


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## Fab Foodie (3 Aug 2015)

TomHenshore said:


> Ah, sadly OsmAnd doesn't have all the functionality on apple devices that it does on Android. No routing features, it's just a big map!


ridewithgps is easy to plot a route with and gives you satellite views as well and the app works well on an iphone.
In the past I would plot a route onto the pages torn from an old map/road altas or nowadays colour photocopies from a decent scale road atlas. Trace the route with a coloured pen and carry a compass. I always seemed to get where I was going without too much fuss. Sometimes I'd also write on a card or the back of my hand/arm the villages to go through and use road signs ....


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## Tim Hall (3 Aug 2015)

TomHenshore said:


> Ah, sadly OsmAnd doesn't have all the functionality on apple devices that it does on Android. No routing features, it's just a big map!


Plot a route on your cycling route website of choice, for example bikehike. With Osmand I've found best results if I turn off the "follow roads" option. You'll end up with a series of straight lines going from point to point. If you put those points at key junctions so much the better.

Export/Save as gpx. 
Load gpx onto your phone (you may have to put it in the Osmand tracks folder)
Run Osmand. Click configure map, select GPX track, pick the relevant track.
Click the arrow button, which generates turn by turn instructions. Say Yes to "Do you want to use the displayed track for navigation"
Click "go"
Listen to the voices as they tell you where to go.


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## mjr (3 Aug 2015)

TomHenshore said:


> Ah, sadly OsmAnd doesn't have all the functionality on apple devices that it does on Android. No routing features, it's just a big map!


Sorry. I didn't spot that your phone is a prisoner


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## Tim Hall (3 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> Plot a route on your cycling route website of choice, for example bikehike. With Osmand I've found best results if I turn off the "follow roads" option. You'll end up with a series of straight lines going from point to point. If you put those points at key junctions so much the better.
> 
> Export/Save as gpx.
> Load gpx onto your phone (you may have to put it in the Osmand tracks folder)
> ...


Damn. Reread your answer. Ignore wot I wrote.


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## w00hoo_kent (3 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> One of the best things about http://cycle.travel/map is that hard-top routes are solid lines and rough stuff is dashed and it weights them in a way that works for me. Some are wrong but it's fairly easy to edit openstreetmap.org to change them.
> Unsurfaced junk and motorist-jammed booby traps are both excellent reasons for using a satnav. Avoiding long detours after you're tricked into a booby trap is another one.


I've no idea what they looked like on the map, I have (well had) route blindness riding from Dartford to Greenwich when being dropped off at my wife's works to then commute in. The situation wasn't helped by the fact that I'm always anxious about time elapsed commuting in, I rarely have oodles of wibble around time.

So I found myself somewhere between the NSL dual carriageway to Thamesmead and the Welling Rd in to Shooters Hill, having turned myself around at least once and spending 10 minutes going both back east and down hill then saw a cycle route sign for Woolwich, I can get to work from Woolwich I thought, so I followed it. Carried the bicycle across a footbridge over the railway, picked my way through an industrial estate and ended up in the middle of nowhere, but at least I was following the signs to Woolwich. Then the tarmac ended. There were choice words. I got in to work something like 45 minutes late having traced the route of the river rather than the much straighter option.

A lot more map work and I now have a good route that has worked for me once. Unfortunately I'm not based at Greenwich for the next 2+ years...


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## Racing roadkill (3 Aug 2015)

I use my phone with google maps set to navigate mode. It knows the difference between right and left, and doesn't throw hissy fits for no good reason, unlike my Garmin, which is beyond useless.


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## coffeejo (3 Aug 2015)

[QUOTE 3834146, member: 9609"]When I am new roading this is exactly what I do - the night before I plan it on OS maps and check some of the junctions out on street view, I don't make any notes but will take the map with me. Are you any happier with a GPS device ? I would guess it would take some of the fun out of it for me - may be I just love my paper maps.[/QUOTE]
I still do that for tricky / complicated junctions or if I want to decide which road to take. I've not got my GPS set up to give me turn by turn directions but instead use it as a digital map. The disadvantages are obvious but it does mean it's waterproof, I don't have to get it out of my pocket at each junction, and it tells me where I am (particularly useful if I've not plotted a route and am just following my nose).


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## Davidc (3 Aug 2015)

If someone's done a GPX I sometimes import into my phone and use Cycle Computer pro, and just track the route on that. I have occasionally produced my own on Bikely and imported that, but I still prefer using an OS map and a compass with it if needed.

On rare occasions when I get lost I can use GPS on the phone with a 'maps with you' map which is easier than pre GPS methods, or if I take my old Garmin Foretrex 101 I get a grid reference readout which is ideal with an OS map.

Going on a group ride is better though - let someone else navigate and you can grumble gently at them when they get lost!


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## mjr (3 Aug 2015)

Davidc said:


> Going on a group ride is better though - let someone else navigate and you can grumble gently at them when they get lost!


Hah! It's not like I've ever led a group onto the wrong side of an A road... oh, wait  but that was only the once and now I'm less worried about appearing confident, I double-check the satnav if in any doubt after the spoken direction!

But if it's *when* they get lost for your group, then shouldn't we volunteer you as a new wayfinder?


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## Davidc (3 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> Hah! It's not like I've ever led a group onto the wrong side of an A road... oh, wait  but that was only the once and now I'm less worried about appearing confident, I double-check the satnav if in any doubt after the spoken direction!
> 
> But if it's *when* they get lost for your group, then *shouldn't we volunteer you as a new wayfinder? *



*NO.*


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## Cyclist33 (3 Aug 2015)

gavroche said:


> What happened to old fashion signposts? Have they all been removed in the name of progress so that we all need gps wherever we go? All you need is the name of the places you will go through and anyway, you are only going 25 miles away from home, not hundreds. Enjoy your ride and don't worry .



Trouble is round here, you only get so far and then the signposts run out. In fact I've found this to be a universal truth, you take a sign to place x and within a few junctions, x is no longer signposted. Then what?! 

That doesn't even take into account little country lanes where there isn't any signage in the first place.


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## Milkfloat (3 Aug 2015)

Cyclist33 said:


> That doesn't even take into account little country lanes where there isn't any signage in the first place.



These are the best kind and the reason I follow a route in the first place. I know all the A and B roads within miles of me and most of the C roads too. I like to plan a good new route each time I go out. I guess the fact that I work for a mapping company means I love a good map, so the route planning is fun and not a chore.


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## theloafer (3 Aug 2015)

TomHenshore said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Next Saturday I've planned for a mate and I to ride a route I've planned that's just under 50 miles. I've had training in route planning in the past as I'm a qualified ride leader, but I've never actually planned a route where i'm unfamiliar with the roads before...
> 
> ...



try the http://www.cyclestreets.net/mobile/


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## SpokeyDokey (3 Aug 2015)

Milkfloat said:


> These are the best kind and the reason I follow a route in the first place. I know all the A and B roads within miles of me and most of the C roads too. I like to plan a good new route each time I go out. I guess the fact that I work for a mapping company means I love a good map, so the route planning is fun and not a chore.



Me too - I love maps. I spend ages planning mountain hiking routes and cycle routes on them.

Sadly, I think GPS has nailed the art of traditional map route planning. Ditto proper use of compass and map.

Three winters back my mate and I 'guided' a couple off of Fairfield in absolutely dire conditions. We'd stumbled across them as they were desperately trying to figure out how to get off the mountain in very low visibility (sleet) and high winds.

They had a GPS that had 'died'. They had no spare batteries. They had no map and no compass. Bonkers.

Asked why they had no map and compass we were told that 'you don't need one with a GPS'. The irony escaped them I think.

Didn't even thank us for getting them down safely. Hey-ho. At least they were alive.


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## slowmotion (3 Aug 2015)

I like maps. The problem is that OS type maps are a pain to get out, unfold, hold up in the rain, refold etc. even though they are great fun to use. I tend to print out Google Maps views on A4 sheets (black and white) and mark my route with a pen. You can stick the lot in a silicone map zipper thingy to keep the rain out. It's almost certainly a less efficient system than satnav but I like it.

BTW, (and way off-topic) did you know that you can get a Brian Sewell voice for your car satnav? Splendid!


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## Davidc (3 Aug 2015)

slowmotion said:


> I like maps. The problem is that OS type maps are a pain to get out, unfold, hold up in the rain, refold etc. even though they are great fun to use. I tend to print out Google Maps views on A4 sheets (black and white) and mark my route with a pen. You can stick the lot in a silicone map zipper thingy to keep the rain out. It's almost certainly a less efficient system than satnav but I like it.
> 
> BTW, (and way off-topic) did you know that you can get a Brian Sewell voice for your car satnav? Splendid!


I've found that if you carefully steam the glue off the card cover and remove it the rest of an OS map folds much better.

Bing maps can be switched to OS maps and printed to A4 sheets too.


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## Ihatehills (3 Aug 2015)

I'm fairly ashamed to admit that I am totally reliant on a gps, I have a sense of direction that is worse than useless, and i always find maps either not detailed enough or too detailed if that makes any sense. If it wasn't for Garmin, I would never venture into the land of unknown, I am however fairly new to cycling and am not very comfortable on busy roads. Any way I've found http://cycle.travel/ to be really useful and it gives step by step instructions that you can print off if you don't want to use a gps


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## RichardB (4 Aug 2015)

Noob question: if you use your mobile phone for navigation, what about battery life? I used my iphone with a motorcycle app called Ride Logger once. My battery normally lasts a day or two, but with using the GPS chip full time, it ran out after about 2-3 hours. OK for a short day ride, but what about longer trips where you can't just plug it into a 12v socket? Also, if you are using Google or Apple maps, don't you have to be in signal range, and doesn't this use tons of data? (Declaration: I use my iphone 4 for the odd call and text, nothing else, so I am so far behind the curve I am horizontal.)

However, I love the satnav in my car (and also pressed into service on a motorbike) and would be interested if something similar can be molished together for the bicycle. Maps are great at home, and a faff everywhere else.


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## slowmotion (4 Aug 2015)

Davidc said:


> I've found that if you carefully steam the glue off the card cover and remove it the rest of an OS map folds much better.
> 
> Bing maps can be switched to OS maps and printed to A4 sheets too.


 It's the unfolding and folding that gets to be a right pain, especially in wet and windy conditions. I bought some Dutch Falk maps of the Netherlands at 1:50,000 scale. They are well designed and beautifully clear, specifically designed for cyclists. It just took a few drops of rain to start them falling apart at the seams.

BTW, if you want maps of Europe, go to dezwerver, a Dutch map company. You can phone them and talk to delightful sales people who are very helpful
https://www.dezwerver.nl/


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## Tim Hall (4 Aug 2015)

RichardB said:


> Noob question: if you use your mobile phone for navigation, what about battery life? I used my iphone with a motorcycle app called Ride Logger once. My battery normally lasts a day or two, but with using the GPS chip full time, it ran out after about 2-3 hours. OK for a short day ride, but what about longer trips where you can't just plug it into a 12v socket? Also, if you are using Google or Apple maps, don't you have to be in signal range, and doesn't this use tons of data? (Declaration: I use my iphone 4 for the odd call and text, nothing else, so I am so far behind the curve I am horizontal.)
> 
> However, I love the satnav in my car (and also pressed into service on a motorbike) and would be interested if something similar can be molished together for the bicycle. Maps are great at home, and a faff everywhere else.


As mentioned up thread, I use Osmand, which is primarily an android thing, so not directly relevant to you as a iphone user. Anyway by turning off bluetooth, nfc and wifi, I had enough battery power on my Galaxy S4 mini for a whole day of navigating. I used voice commands in my ear in preference to watching the screen which I guess also saved battery.

The great thing about Osmand is that you can download Open Street Maps and save them to the phone, so it doesn't chew through your data allowance.


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## ColinJ (4 Aug 2015)

SpokeyDokey said:


> Sadly, I think GPS has nailed the art of traditional map route planning.


I was going to say something rude, but I'll restrain myself ... 

I have a digital 1:50,000 OS map of Britain and I plan all of my new routes on that, and then transfer them to a GPS device for navigation. Best of both worlds ... 

200 km forum ride:


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## RichardB (4 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> Anyway by turning off bluetooth, nfc and wifi, I had enough battery power on my Galaxy S4 mini for a whole day of navigating ... The great thing about Osmand is that you can download Open Street Maps and save them to the phone, so it doesn't chew through your data allowance.


Aha! That sounds like a plan. Cheers.


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## coffeejo (4 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I was going to say something rude, but I'll restrain myself ...
> 
> I have a digital 1:50,000 OS map of Britain and I plan all of my new routes on that, and then transfer them to a GPS device for navigation. Best of both worlds ...
> 
> ...


I bought Memory Map on your recommendation and have never regretted it. I especially love the fact that you can print out the bits of the map that you need, which I frequently do for both cycling and walking.


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## ColinJ (4 Aug 2015)

coffeejo said:


> I bought Memory Map on your recommendation and have never regretted it. I especially love the fact that you can print out the bits of the map that you need, which I frequently do for both cycling and walking.


Another satisfied 'customer'! 

I am thinking of upgrading to the latest HD version which would print better, and can be installed on up to 5 devices, so laptop, desktop, tablet, phone and a compatible GPS. I think there is a discount for registered owners of earlier versions.


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## coffeejo (4 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> Another satisfied 'customer'!
> 
> I am thinking of upgrading to the latest HD version which would print better, and can be installed on up to 5 devices, so laptop, desktop, tablet, phone and a compatible GPS. I think there is a discount for registered owners of earlier versions.


I've downloaded the 1:25k HD version for a trial run. Not sure I can justify the £360 but I might get treat myself to the standard version.


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## mjr (4 Aug 2015)

RichardB said:


> My battery normally lasts a day or two, but with using the GPS chip full time, it ran out after about 2-3 hours. [...] (Declaration: I use my iphone 4 for the odd call and text, nothing else, so I am so far behind the curve I am horizontal.)


GPS seemed to suddenly get better about power consumption when I upgraded my Android phone about two years ago. The iPhone 4 is now five years old, so might still have the old power-hungry things, but I don't really follow Apple so could be wrong. Extra battery packs are also getting smaller and smaller...


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## ColinJ (4 Aug 2015)

coffeejo said:


> I've downloaded the 1:25k HD version for a trial run. Not sure I can justify the £360 but I might get treat myself to the standard version.


I'd _love_ to buy that, but it's a _lot_ of money! (It is probably a big saving over buying all the paper maps, but who buys all the 1:25,000 maps for the UK?)


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## coffeejo (4 Aug 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I'd _love_ to buy that, but it's a _lot_ of money! (It is probably a big saving over buying all the paper maps, but *who buys all the 1:25,000 maps for the UK?*)


I would, if I had the money. And the space.


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## RichardB (4 Aug 2015)

mjray said:


> GPS seemed to suddenly get better about power consumption when I upgraded my Android phone about two years ago. The iPhone 4 is now five years old, so might still have the old power-hungry things, but I don't really follow Apple so could be wrong. Extra battery packs are also getting smaller and smaller...


Thanks for this. I didn't know this about the GPS chips. If I use the GPS in my iPhone 4, it eats the battery and also heats up the casing noticeably - presumably that's where the energy is going. And changing the battery is not a trivial business with that phone - I put a new one in, and it took a micro-sized screwdriver, a bit of heat, a lot of swearing and half an hour to do, as it is pretty much factory sealed. Not a roadside fix! To be honest, when it dies, I'm going back to the old Nokia 6310i, which still has half its battery bars after six months in a cupboard, and which has good call quality in places where the iPhone can't even get a signal. But the iPhone refuses to die.


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## mjr (4 Aug 2015)

Battery packs plug in like a charger. Micro USB for me but Apple have designed their own plug I think. Less efficient but much easier to use than swapping internal batteries.


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## ClichéGuevara (5 Aug 2015)

Tim Hall said:


> Click "go"
> *Listen to the voices as they tell you where to go*.



The judge warned me not to do that. He said he'd put me back in the dark place with the jacket that fastens at the back if I did.


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## ColinJ (2 Oct 2015)

ColinJ said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to the latest HD version [of Memory Map] which would print better, and can be installed on up to 5 devices, so laptop, desktop, tablet, phone and a compatible GPS. I think there is a discount for registered owners of earlier versions.


I decided to save money and buy the standard version instead. I don't really need to print the maps, and storage space is at a premium on my unexpandable Galaxy Tab. I got a 25% discount as a registered user of an older version.

It took a bit of faffing about to copy the maps to my phone and tablet but they are now working. The new map shows several major road changes which caught me out on the old map. (Two examples: A new road leading to a new industrial estate and motorway junction near Milnrow, and a busy A-road near Nottingham which trashed a quiet country lane which I had intended to ride down.)

I will still use my old Garmin for navigation, but I can now use my phone for backup.


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## ColinJ (5 Oct 2015)

I like carrying a copy of my forum ride routes on my phone. My old Garmin GPS has not let me down yet, but it does not have maps on it which means that I have to stick to the route I plotted or roads that I know. Having a Landranger-scale OS map of the whole of mainland Britain on my phone is a brilliant backup and will allow me to make up alternative routes out on the road! 

I was forced to do a major detour once on a 140 mile ride. Fortunately, I knew a different way back because the diversion sign was a fat lot of good - "_Snake Pass closed - please take an alternative route_"! 

Here is a photo of my laptop, phone, and tablet showing part of the route we took on my forum ride on Saturday ...







The one thing I am not so chuffed about is that the Android app does not allow me to display an elevation profile of a route, the way that I can on my PCs. I thought I would be able to get away with just taking my tablet with me on cycling holidays but I like being able to check the hilliness of new routes before I ride them. I know how contour lines work so I can get an idea from the maps, but a graph makes things much clearer.


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## briantrumpet (7 Oct 2015)

slowmotion said:


> It's the unfolding and folding that gets to be a right pain, especially in wet and windy conditions. I bought some Dutch Falk maps of the Netherlands at 1:50,000 scale. They are well designed and beautifully clear, specifically designed for cyclists. It just took a few drops of rain to start them falling apart at the seams.


Similarly French IGN maps are lovely new, but I've learned to reinforce all the folds on the rear with masking tape before first use now. OS maps must use a much better 'weave' in their paper, as it is much more resilient to frequent (and damp) refolding.

I'm another map-plan-and-try-to-memorise rider, with some sort of paper map as a back-up, if somewhere unfamiliar, not least as sometimes I like to stop and see where I am and what's around me ... and occasionally take a diversion from the planned route. Maps are both beautiful and an unending source of fascination.


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## HLaB (7 Oct 2015)

Before I got a Garmin, I just pick a simple route with minimal turns and study it and carry a map just in case and refer to it when I was unsure of a turn and often it'd just be an extension of a previous route; touch wood that worked for me. Now I have a garmin, navigation is a bit faster but I still select a relatively direct/ simple route and I am more likely to plan a route in new territory .


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## montroseloon (8 Oct 2015)

I use an app on my Android phone called bike hub which allows you to plot a route but also email it to yourself and then use a GPX viewer to open it once it is saved on your phone. Also RichardB if you are thinking of changing phones try a good android phone as the battery life on them is really good compared to the iPhone


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## RichardB (13 Oct 2015)

montroseloon said:


> Also RichardB if you are thinking of changing phones try a good android phone as the battery life on them is really good compared to the iPhone


Thanks, but ... when my iPhone contract ran out I 'upgraded' to a Samsung phone. I gave it a week and then sold it and dug the iPhone back out of the drawer. I found the interface very fussy and didn't get on with it at all. I'm not really a smartphone person, to be honest. When the iPhone 4 dies, I have two fully-functional Nokia 6310i phones which I intend to bring back into service.


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## ColinJ (13 Oct 2015)

Ha - I wondered why my phone had been running the battery down more quickly than usual ... I had turned the GPS on to test navigation using my Memory Map app, and I forgot to disable it when I had finished!


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