# building a recumbent



## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

so have any of you lot actually welded a recumbent frame your self? i can weld about 2.5- 3mm minimum steel tube at the moment would this be okay?
Cheers Ed


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Dec 2013)

I forecast disaster


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

you haven't seen me with an arc welder!  what could possibly go wrong (he said with a slight stutter)
Cheers Ed


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## Pat "5mph" (9 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> you haven't seen me with an arc welder!  what could possibly go wrong (he said with a slight stutter)
> Cheers Ed


Dunno what could go wrong, but I have a vivid imagination 
Wait until the more experienced members give you advice before welding the welder


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## ianrauk (9 Dec 2013)

Go through the threads in this Recumbent section. Somewhere is a thread of a self build.


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/home-built-trike.123780/
Cheers Ed


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## mickle (9 Dec 2013)

What ye making?


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## Rickshaw Phil (9 Dec 2013)

Wish I could weld. I'd love to have a go at making something like a recumbent. (The lack of a workshop doesn't help either of course )

I shall follow this thread with interest.


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## Amanda P (9 Dec 2013)

A bike made of 2.5 mm thick steel would be heavy, but as long as your joints are sound there's no reason you can't build a bike. You should make a joint and then cut it in half from time to time, and look at it really carefully to make sure you've penetrated sufficiently and that the bits you thought were welded really are.

Check out Atomic Zombie's books on building your own bikes of various designs from scrap frames etc. Mostly they suggest welding, as MIG welding is relatively easy to learn, and cheap to do once you own the machine. It's quite hard to make really neat welds in thin-walled round tubing, though - that's usually done in production with a TIG welding machine which is a new level of skill and expense.

If you want to build elegant machines from thinner-walled steel tubes, I'd suggest learning to braze. You'll need a small oxyacetylene rig for that, but the results are just as strong, much nicer to look at and you can build much lighter bikes.

And to answer your original question, no I haven't built a bike from scratch. But I've made substantial modifications to several which are still in one piece and haven't broken! And I make custom racks for recumbents and Moultons from time to time, all fillet brazed in mild or 4130 cro-moly steel.


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

mickle said:


> What ye making?


potentially a recumbent! 
Cheers Ed


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## lukesdad (9 Dec 2013)

No reason why you can't arc weld thin tubing but it takes a fair amount of practice the main problem being not lack of penetration but burning bloody great holes in it.


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

Uncle Phil said:


> A bike made of 2.5 mm thick steel would be heavy, but as long as your joints are sound there's no reason you can't build a bike.
> 
> *thought so alright for playing and seeing if me making a bike is feasible or even possible *
> 
> ...



think i may do something like this
http://www.atomiczombie.com/Warrior Recumbent Tadpole Racing Trike.aspx

i have a mate with both a recumbent solo trike and a 2 wheel one behind the other new recumbent tandem so i hve those two to look at steering linkages etc on and take camber angles..... and i of course have YOU LOT! 
Cheers Ed


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

lukesdad said:


> No reason why you can't arc weld thin tubing but it takes a fair amount of practice the main problem being not lack of penetration but burning bloody great holes in it.


thats why i said 2.5mm due to the huge gaping holes been there done that
Cheers Ed


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## lukesdad (9 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> thats why i said 2.5mm due to the huge gaping holes been there done that
> Cheers Ed


 but that s where the skill comes in


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## young Ed (9 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> thats why i said 2.5mm due to the huge gaping holes been there done that
> Cheers Ed


thats where meta and money and time gets wasted and then you get impatient and then you give up on ever building a recumbent 
i would rather have a heavy recumbent than no recumbent!
Cheers Ed


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## smokeysmoo (9 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/home-built-trike.123780/
> Cheers Ed


Saw this thread earlier and I remembered XRHYSX's build thread, but I've only just been able to look it up, but you've found it already 

PM @XRHYSX I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have.


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## PhilDawson8270 (10 Dec 2013)

You're going to have a nightmare with rust too if you use Mild Steel tubing, if you go for Stainless Steel, you're going to need some pretty pricy gear for cutting the tubes and cutting fishmouths etc, as regular tooling for normal steels isn't hard enough.

Then, once you have got over that hurdle, if you are welding stainless steel, then you must use pure argon as your shielding gas, and tube also needs to be back purged to prevent contamination from the rear of the weld, so you will need to be capping the tubes, and filling them with argon, so you're going to need a 2 way take off with 2 regulators of your gas supply.

Do you have any photos of what you have done before with regards to welding? As simple as bikes are, welding and fabricating thin wall tubes requires more skills than it appears, and jumping into such a project without the necessary skills and equipment is very expensive.

What equipment do you have? Buying a recumbent is more than likely going to be cheaper than buying the gear to build something not as good.

If you want to actually build one, and enjoy doing the drawings etc, then that is where you will enjoy it, if you want to build something cheaper than buying, then you're likely to be disappointed.


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## Rickshaw Phil (10 Dec 2013)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> You're going to have a nightmare with rust too if you use Mild Steel tubing, if you go for Stainless Steel, you're going to need some pretty pricy gear for cutting the tubes and cutting fishmouths etc, as regular tooling for normal steels isn't hard enough.


This seems overly scaremongering to me. If it's properly prepared and painted there's no reason it should be more problematic than any other steel framed bike.


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## PhilDawson8270 (10 Dec 2013)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> This seems overly scaremongering to me. If it's properly prepared and painted there's no reason it should be more problematic than any other steel framed bike.



The rust will start from the inside out, where it won't be painted, I am unsure of what steels are usually used in bicycle construction, but you can pretty much guarantee they will be dipped in an anti-corrosion coating after welding and fab, and before paint to prevent this kind of thing happening.


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## Rickshaw Phil (10 Dec 2013)

Admittedly even BSOs are mostly made from higher grades than mild steel but the stuff doesn't rust so rapidly that you should discount it as a material. Current bikes may be dipped in an anti-corrosive agent (can anyone advise?) but I very much doubt classic ones were and there are plenty surviving.

Amateur constructions can be protected inside: There are products like Dinitrol and Waxoyl which can be squirted inside any tubing where the insides are exposed to the elements and the sealed sections won't be a problem.

You make it sound like the thing will just disintegrate if mild steel is used and I do not believe that will be the case if it is suitably protected and looked after.


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## PhilDawson8270 (10 Dec 2013)

Rickshaw Phil said:


> You make it sound like the thing will just disintegrate if mild steel is used and I do not believe that will be the case if it is suitably protected and looked after.



That is not my intention, more that the choice of material needs to be well considered, as does the rest of the project for it to be a success, it would be a shame for somebody to spend a lot of hours on a project like this for it to rust from inside out in a few years time due to an oversight.


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## Rickshaw Phil (10 Dec 2013)

I imagine that if this project is successful the OP will have moved on to a modified and improved version in a few years. I know I would.


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## young Ed (10 Dec 2013)

PhilDawson8270 said:


> You're going to have a nightmare with rust too if you use Mild Steel tubing, if you go for Stainless Steel, you're going to need some pretty pricy gear for cutting the tubes and cutting fishmouths etc, as regular tooling for normal steels isn't hard enough.
> 
> Then, once you have got over that hurdle, if you are welding stainless steel, then you must use pure argon as your shielding gas, and tube also needs to be back purged to prevent contamination from the rear of the weld, so you will need to be capping the tubes, and filling them with argon, so you're going to need a 2 way take off with 2 regulators of your gas supply.
> 
> ...


i have an arc welder, a pair of angle grinders a selection of metal files round and square,2 hack saws and the other general smaller things like tape measures and sharpies etc etc
and believe i don't need to use stainless or anything other then mild steel dues to me saving up and splashing out right at the end and drilling 1 or 2 holes in the frame and then sending the whole frame off to be galvanized and then powder coated admittedly not cheap but will then last for years to come rust wise




Rickshaw Phil said:


> This seems overly scaremongering to me.


cheers i agree 
Cheers Ed


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## XRHYSX (10 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> i have an arc welder, a pair of angle grinders a selection of metal files round and square,2 hack saws and the other general smaller things like tape measures and sharpies etc etc
> and believe i don't need to use stainless or anything other then mild steel dues to me saving up and splashing out right at the end and drilling 1 or 2 holes in the frame and then sending the whole frame off to be galvanized and then powder coated admittedly not cheap but will then last for years to come rust wise
> 
> 
> ...


 
this is what I'm going to do with mine when i get around to finishing it,
my best bit of advice, buy the best drill bits you can and some cutting fluid, i killed so many bits before I worked this out, lol


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## PhilDawson8270 (10 Dec 2013)

young Ed said:


> cheers i agree
> Cheers Ed



Maybe it's just my engineering side coming out, but after building a LOT of different projects, and working in that kind of industry, planning for every failure gives you every chance of success.

It's good to see you already have plans protecting the frame, though for steel I would avoid powder coating, as this can trap moisture and promote corrosion. Galvanised + Paint is better and cheaper in this circumstance.

So you don't think I am all negativity 

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/winmiter.html
You may find that useful, it creates paper templates for you to cut around for fish-mouthing tubes to but up against each other 

I wish you the best of luck with it, and look forward to seeing progress, just heed my advice, question every step of the way "what can go wrong? Am I using the best method I can?" And it will be a success, make no assumptions, and go at every stage with cold hard logic.


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## young Ed (10 Dec 2013)

XRHYSX said:


> this is what I'm going to do with mine when i get around to finishing it,
> my best bit of advice, buy the best drill bits you can *COBALT* and some cutting fluid,ANY LIGHT OIL; i killed so many bits before I worked this out, lol GRIND THEM BACK WITH A CHEAP BENCH GRINDER





PhilDawson8270 said:


> Maybe it's just my engineering side coming out, but after building a LOT of different projects, and working in that kind of industry, *AWESOME AWESOME MAN I LOVE THAT KIND OF STUFF! * planning for every failure gives you every chance of success. *BE PESIMISTIK*
> 
> It's good to see you already have plans protecting the frame, though for steel I would avoid powder coating, *HAVE POWDER COATED STEEL BEFORE WITH NO PROBLEM* as this can trap moisture and promote corrosion. Galvanised + Paint is better and cheaper in this circumstance. *THANKS THAT IS PROB WHAT I WILL DO GALVAIZED AND THEN HAND PAINT FRAME AS NEET AS I CAN ALSO I MEANS I CAN DO SEVERAL COLOURS *
> 
> ...


Cheers Ed


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