# Feeling the fear



## jefmcg (22 Dec 2014)

Things are a bit of a mess for me at the moment, but cycling is a bright spot. I'm cycling more slowly for various reasons, but I really enjoy burning slowly through the miles. 

Or I did. This year I've been in my first two collisions with cars after over 20 years, in nearly identical circumstances. And 2 weeks ago I came off heavily on unlikely black ice - nowhere near trees, 3pm on a day that had stayed above freezing. The RTCs were hard to avoid, too. Both times I was at the line on a roundabout; waiting to go; rammed by the car behind me, that knew I was there and had no doubts I had the right to be there. Oh, and admitted without hesitation they were in the wrong.

Now I really find I don't want to get broken on the roads, and I seem to feel it's likely. I *know *cycling is safe. Hell, I've argued it in a post very recently. I regularly argue with @vickster about it. But my soul is scared, despite the logic. Avoiding the car behind is wearying, and probably impossible. Ice, 10 hours after the temp has gone above freezing - doable in the last weeks, but how much of January do I have to stay inside?

Not really looking for a solution. I guess/hope that will come. Just want to vent/bleat, I think

TL;DR - even though I know cycling is safe, I'm feeling frightened.


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## bpsmith (22 Dec 2014)

I guess the answer is to just try and get out there and hopefully it will subside. Rotten luck all round really. Black Ice appears at temps up to 5 degrees, keep your eye out at anywhere under that.

I was knocked off my motorbike in Sept and it was written off. Not my fault and also at low speed. 8 weeks of physio and back still not right. Still feel nervous when a parked car suddenly pulls out, despite being nowhere near me and that's when in my car! So I empathise with you. Shock is a naughty thing and stays with you for a bit.

Just keep getting out there and diminish the fear!


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## Moodyman (22 Dec 2014)

self-preservation is natural. as we get older, our experiences tell us how fragile we are, i.e a perfectly healthy relative recently slipped on moss on his garden footpath and hit his head on the floor. went into a coma and died 6 days later from the brain injury.

I've recently taken to avoiding some of the busiest roads in the area by commuting via longer but quieter residential roads.


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## GrumpyGregry (22 Dec 2014)

I've focused on running rather than cycling this winter as the hairs on the back of my neck were permanently stressed and standing up on the bike.


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## Moodyman (22 Dec 2014)

I came off on ice at 32mph a few winters ago.

Got away with just bruising. Busy road, thankfully no following cars otherwise I wouldn't be here today. But I could not descend with the same confidence for about 18 months. 

you'll get your confidence back, but it'll take time.


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## vickster (22 Dec 2014)

I am feeling the same but I've never liked cycling in the dark and cold. I'm constantly injured it seems, due to cycling too much or coming off/being knocked off or cycling too much trying to get back into cycling after injury. I've not been on a bike since coming off over 2 weeks ago. Seem to really be feeling the cold too whenever I go out even though it's not that cold! Which is further putting me off trying to cycle as I hate being cold. and I've not quite shaken off the lurgy I've had for 10 days


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## summerdays (22 Dec 2014)

For me I have to NOT think about it especially when out on the bike, as I become more nervous and my cycling concentration/awareness gets lower. 

How much do you have to cycle at this time of year? Could you give yourself a break for a bit then choose a really nice day to cycle the next time?


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Dec 2014)

Totally understand and empathize.
I'm scared in traffic all the time, even though I never actually had a crash or a near miss.
I'm not scared of ice because when the temperatures lowers I use the ice bike - had a fall thankfully at very low speed a few years ago before investing in the spiked tyres.
We had a girl badly injured after coming off on wet leaves on a segregated path: I'm still very cautious in those conditions.
I'm also very scared of any downhill speed at more than 20 mph!


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## Mo1959 (22 Dec 2014)

I know how you feel. Although my accident and subsequent bad collar bone break was my own fault ( with the help of a sheep!) it has left me extremely nervous on descents, corners and bad conditions. I have tried to avoid ice too but have come across a few patches when I thought the roads were ok too. Just crawled over them and was so nervous my arms actually started shaking. 

Not sure if I'll ever regain full confidence, but like @GrumpyGregry I,ve been trying to get into doing some running on days I don't feel the conditions are safe.


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## young Ed (22 Dec 2014)

as said above, seems like the confidence is the main thing you have lost/damaged but that will regrow 

i say, just get out there and ride. i find i start getting a miserable, grumpy old sod if i haven't ridden for a week or so and a lack of any real exercise for a week or so and i am close to dying! 
even if it is just 5 or 10 miles to stop the cobwebs building up on the bike and to hold the voices in your head at bay!
Cheers Ed


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## Accy cyclist (23 Dec 2014)

Moodyman said:


> self-preservation is natural. as we get older, our experiences tell us how fragile we are, i.e a perfectly healthy relative recently slipped on moss on his garden footpath and hit his head on the floor. went into a coma and died 6 days later from the brain injury.
> 
> I've recently taken to avoiding some of the busiest roads in the area by commuting via longer but quieter residential roads.





Moodyman said:


> self-preservation is natural. as we get older, our experiences tell us how fragile we are, i.e a perfectly healthy relative recently slipped on moss on his garden footpath and hit his head on the floor. went into a coma and died 6 days later from the brain injury.
> 
> I've recently taken to avoiding some of the busiest roads in the area by commuting via longer but quieter residential roads.



Moss or that green algae slimy stuff is lethal! I hate it at work when it's in damp backyards or on sloping kitchen roofs. I came off my bike two years ago due to the stuff while riding slowly in the local cemetery.The bump to my head ended with me losing my sight in one eye.


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## ColinJ (23 Dec 2014)

Moodyman said:


> self-preservation is natural. as we get older, our experiences tell us how fragile we are, i.e a perfectly healthy relative recently slipped on moss on his garden footpath and hit his head on the floor. went into a coma and died 6 days later from the brain injury.


That's terrible - I'm sorry to hear that.



Accy cyclist said:


> Moss or that green algae slimy stuff is lethal! I hate it at work when it's in damp backyards or on sloping kitchen roofs. I came off my bike two years ago due to the stuff while riding slowly in the local cemetery.The bump to my head ended with me losing my sight in one eye.


That's awful too!

I slipped on the slimy slabs in my back yard a week or so back and got a minor neck injury trying to avoid falling.

As for 'feeling the fear' ... I was very worried about the risk of crashing when I first got back into cycling after my clotting problems - any significant injury could be made much worse by excessive bleeding due to the anticoagulants I have to take now. I would bleed 2-3 times as much as the typical person.

It took me a while to lose the fear. I am now back to riding the way I used to. I descend at over 50 mph when I want to, and I don't think about the added risks. Let's face it - crashing at over 50 mph was always going to be nasty, one way or another.

I think you have to do your best to keep risk down to an acceptable level, then just get on with accepting it!


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## bpsmith (23 Dec 2014)

Blinking heck, amazing how many of us have experienced an accident in one form or other...and still get out there. The passion has to overrule the head sometimes, and thank God that it's usually the stronger emotion!


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## Accy cyclist (23 Dec 2014)

bpsmith said:


> Blinking heck, amazing how many of us have experienced an accident in one form or other...and still get out there. The passion has to overrule the head sometimes, and thank God that it's usually the stronger emotion!




If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger,or something like that.


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## raleighnut (23 Dec 2014)

I've had loads of bike smashes/offs over the years, broke collarbones, fingers and my wrist but it was a fall at work that broke my femur which could have easily killed me (if you damage the femoral artery you can bleed internally and they reckon 10-15 mins is all you've got)
Accidents can and will happen at any time but its just something you can't dwell on or life would not be worth living and for me that means getting out on my bikes (or the trike for now) I just try to minimise the risk. At this time of year that means enough lights to illuminate a small town, treating every bend with caution and riding within the limits of the conditions and the capabilities of the bike/trike.


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## young Ed (23 Dec 2014)

i must say that i do winder how long it will be before i bite the dust and get hit by a car or crash somehow else and am potentially seriously injured? none the less i still go ride and will cross that bridge when i get to it!
TBH i mainly worry about breaking the carbon forks or lovely wheels or buggering all my gear changing stuff (shifters and derailleurs mainly) in a crash! 
Cheers Ed


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## Turbo Rider (23 Dec 2014)

I think a healthy dose of fear is good for you - keeps you aware, so long as it doesnt turn into a panic and if you can focus on the task in hand, it's mostly good. Must say I've had a couple of restless evenings myself over the last few months, since starting my commute by bike, but having woken up the next day and forced myself into it, I usually end up feeling twice as good as I did to begin with. My other half helps as well. She's not keen on me cycling at all, but I had a moment the other week & she just told me to stop dic*ing around & get on with it, else I might regret it...might have something to do with the life insurance, mind.


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## mcshroom (23 Dec 2014)

young Ed said:


> i must say that i do winder how long it will be before i bite the dust and get hit by a car or crash somehow else and am potentially seriously injured? none the less i still go ride and will cross that bridge when i get to it!
> TBH i mainly worry about breaking the carbon forks or lovely wheels or buggering all my gear changing stuff (shifters and derailleurs mainly) in a crash!
> Cheers Ed



Crossing a bridge was what I was doing when I broke my humerus in July. I'm back riding now but corner like an oil tanker and can't face riding fixed again at the moment. 

Some suggestions for you @jefmcg - Off roading on a MTB is pretty good this time of year as loose stuff is less likely to be unrideable when icy. Also studded tyres are remarkably effective.

Otherwise how about trying some spinning classes until things warm up? I did a few just before I was passed fit to ride a bike again and they were hard work (and different to a bike ride) but quite fun 

[ebitad fur spolling]


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## young Ed (23 Dec 2014)

mcshroom said:


> Crossing a bridge was what I was doing when I broke my humerus in July. I'm back riding now but corner like an oil tanker and can't face riding fixed again at the moment.
> 
> Some suggestions for you @jefmcg - Off roading on a MTB is pretty good this time of year as loose stuff is less likely to be unrideable when icy. Also studded tyres are remarkably effectove.
> 
> Otherwise how about trying some spinning classes until things warm up? I did a few just before I was passed fit to ride a bike again abd they were hard work (and different to a bike ride) but quite fun


for the winter months i keep thinking about a turbo but i'm just not sure i can see any space to put it 
i think if i were to get an injury or be involved in an accident that kept me off the bike for say a month or more i would just buy one and then have to find somewhere for it!

it's a shame my family aren't too keen hate the idea of bikes in the house 
Cheers Ed


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## mcshroom (23 Dec 2014)

They fold up pretty small. Small enough to fit under a bed for instance, and you can use them on the driveway. I did 






At the time my arm was broken and I needed the step ladder (and fence) to get on and off the bike. Did get a few funny looks


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## jefmcg (23 Dec 2014)

Thanks folks.

I'm finding it amusing that people are chivvying me up with tales of falls and injuries and death (I'm looking at you, @Moodyman  )

I'm still going out there. Went twice around Richmond Park on Saturday in the dark, and on Sunday did a 62km pootle on quiet roads. But just not enjoying it as much. The second loop of Richmond was mind over matter, and on Sunday I procrastinated so much before leaving that all the cake shops and even the Wurst stand at Kingston Christmas Market were all closed.

The weather has been pretty good for December, and the car drivers positively nice. Also put christmas lights on my bike, but that's only helping a little.


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## mcshroom (23 Dec 2014)

'Winter miles, summer smiles!' 

I'm far too familiar with the other one: 'Winter pies, summer sighs'


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## coffeejo (23 Dec 2014)

The only way to conquer a fear is to conquer it rather than avoid it. Keep doing what you're doing and push the boundaries of your comfort zone. You'll get there.


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## jefmcg (23 Dec 2014)

summerdays said:


> How much do you have to cycle at this time of year? Could you give yourself a break for a bit then choose a really nice day to cycle the next time?



Funnily enough, I don't have problems with the cycling I have to do. The day after my black ice incident I was having coffee with some friends. I don't have a car, and getting there by public transport would have been a faff, and it never occurred to me to get a taxi. So I just hopped on the folder without a care. Oh, with a little care and caution, but happily enough.

It's more the "going for a ride" thing that's got me. Two years ago I promised myself I'd do ParisBrestParis next year. I probably won't now, but I don't want to completely rule it out


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## vickster (23 Dec 2014)

And don't forget Ride London...


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## mcshroom (23 Dec 2014)

That's a little bit shorter though


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## jefmcg (23 Dec 2014)

vickster said:


> And don't forget Ride London...


Yeah, but I don't need to do a 200, 300 and 600km audax to qualify for that.

Edit: TMN to @mcshroom


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## vickster (23 Dec 2014)

Probably need to ride quicker though?


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## mcshroom (23 Dec 2014)

Not much in it really. You have to ride faster than the minimum speed on long audaxes like PBP to get time to sleep. Add to that you have to keep riding for 4 days


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## vickster (23 Dec 2014)

I wasn't comparing the two


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## young Ed (23 Dec 2014)

mcshroom said:


> 'Winter miles, summer smiles!'
> 
> I'm far too familiar with the other one: 'Winter pies, summer sighs'


haven't you heard @vernon 's spin on 'Winter pies, summer sighs' , winter pies, summer pies!
Cheers Ed


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## Racing roadkill (23 Dec 2014)

I've been smacked into the weeds twice in as many months, both times by cretins, who didn't seem to understand what a give way was, and despite the fact I was actually across the front of them, still kept going and drove straight into me, so they didn't understand the difference between their brake and accelerator pedals either. We have to share they roads with creatures like this unfortunately. All you can do is try and minimize the likelihood of encountering them, by careful route planning, and if you do still have the misfortune to encounter them, give yourself as much chance of minimizing the potential damage. Then take a deep breath and get back out there.


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## Crackle (23 Dec 2014)

I think you should give up and give away all your bikes jefmcg. How tall are you?


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## briantrumpet (23 Dec 2014)

At the moment I'm sharing the slight trepidation (on certain roads) after my bit of hedge-hugging a couple of weeks ago caused by drivers playing dodgems (noted elsewhere on Cyclechat), but looking back I saw on a Facebook post from December 2009 that I was wondering what had got into drivers at this time of year back then. I'm sure that with some longer, drier days, and drivers who aren't rushing to see Santa, the worry about who might be going to kill me will subside. I know that the statistics are on my side.


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## vickster (23 Dec 2014)

Careful route planning isn't really possible in the always busy suburban roads

I just met @jefmcg for coffee...windy, roads pretty busy with shoppers, but apart from one old dear who pulled out and didn't really accelerate (as is often the case with old dears), everyone was considerate


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## ColinJ (23 Dec 2014)

vickster said:


> apart from one old dear who pulled out and didn't really accelerate (as is often the case with old dears), everyone was considerate


That always bugs me ... Drivers - if you judge my speed properly and can safely pull out in front of me, then be my guest, but please accelerate away before I catch up with you. If I am having to brake to avoid running into the back of you then you got it wrong!


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## jefmcg (23 Dec 2014)

briantrumpet said:


> At the moment I'm sharing the slight trepidation (on certain roads) after my bit of hedge-hugging a couple of weeks ago caused by drivers playing dodgems (noted elsewhere on Cyclechat)


No wonder. If I'd been near that mess, I'd be under the kitchen table, rocking back and forth and whimpering occasionally.


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## summerdays (23 Dec 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Funnily enough, I don't have problems with the cycling I have to do. The day after my black ice incident I was having coffee with some friends. I don't have a car, and getting there by public transport would have been a faff, and it never occurred to me to get a taxi. So I just hopped on the folder without a care. Oh, with a little care and caution, but happily enough.
> 
> It's more the "going for a ride" thing that's got me. Two years ago I promised myself I'd do ParisBrestParis next year. I probably won't now, but I don't want to completely rule it out


I'm definitely of the I need a reason to get on the bike, once on I usually enjoy myself, but I don't often just go for a ride for the sake of riding. I need that little push, even if its just to grab something from the allotment.


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## dave r (23 Dec 2014)

ColinJ said:


> That always bugs me ... Drivers - if you judge my speed properly and can safely pull out in front of me, then be my guest, but please accelerate away before I catch up with you. If I am having to brake to avoid running into the back of you then you got it wrong!



One of my pet hates, even if the drivers a bit close for comfort when they pull out I don't mind too much if they accelerate away, but it makes me curse if I'm having to back of to avoid rear ending them. Same as when I'm waiting to pull onto a roundabout, I've spotted the gap and know where I'm going join the traffic, then the car driver on the roundabout backs of and the gap and opportunity disappears.


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## HLaB (23 Dec 2014)

I was hit like a car like that, she jumped out and said 'I saw you'; ffs :-/


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## Wobblers (23 Dec 2014)

I won't regal you with tales of my crashes, @jefmcg! The fear is only a natural response, but it _does _fade eventually. The first few times I got back on the bike after a two month hiatus (see my first sentence!) I was paranoid about every car coming up behind me. It's taken two years for my confidence to completely return, but it did. Like you, I didn't have any trouble doing the journeys that I had to, but it was difficult to motivate myself to just go out on the bike. The solution - take the _long _route when going to the shops! I still do that now on the commute. Don't beat yourself up about it, things will return to normal so there's no need to force it.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Dec 2014)

McWobble said:


> I won't regal you with tales of my crashes, @jefmcg! The fear is only a natural response, but it _does _fade eventually. The first few times I got back on the bike after a two month hiatus (see my first sentence!) I was paranoid about every car coming up behind me. It's taken two years for my confidence to completely return, but it did. Like you, I didn't have any trouble doing the journeys that I had to, but it was difficult to motivate myself to just go out on the bike. The solution - take the _long _route when going to the shops! I still do that now on the commute. Don't beat yourself up about it, things will return to normal so there's no need to force it.


I've found that, for me, I can get nervous about incompetent driving when I'm not on the bike. Invariably though, once I'm out and alert, I get more confident in the choice of route. Though I will often take a longer route simply because it's less noisy and far more relaxing.


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## fossyant (23 Dec 2014)

It can be tough after an accident. Just a few days driving or public transport gets me back on the bike when able. I've had two big crashes in the last 6 years. One 6 years ago, and one in September. 

Worse this time was the family.

A good crash technique is never ever tense up and stick your hands down. Go limp.


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## vickster (23 Dec 2014)

fossyant said:


> A good crash technique is never ever tense up and stick your hands down. Go limp.


I need to learn not to land hard on the frame, leading with my left lower leg!!!


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## fossyant (23 Dec 2014)

vickster said:


> I need to learn not to land hard on the frame, leading with my left lower leg!!!



Even with clipless pedals the bike has never stayed with me in a crash. It usually ends up some distance away


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## jefmcg (23 Dec 2014)

fossyant said:


> Even with clipless pedals the bike has never stayed with me in a crash. It usually ends up some distance away


Well, there's the answer @vickster: higher speed crashes so you are thrown clear of the bike. That's got to be safer!


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## Diggs (23 Dec 2014)

vickster said:


> I need to learn not to land hard on the frame, leading with my left lower leg!!!


I plan not to land on the new pointy bit on my shoulder. My sister tells me to land on the other side,just to even them up.
Anyway, wish you all the best @jefmcg


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## briantrumpet (23 Dec 2014)

fossyant said:


> A good crash technique is never ever tense up and stick your hands down. Go limp.


In my offs and crashes I don't think I've had time to tense, thankfully. But yes, even tucking in hands and arms if you have the time to think about it is wise - keep all the complicated small bones out of harm's way.


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## Crankarm (23 Dec 2014)

coffeejo said:


> The only way to conquer a fear is to conquer it rather than avoid it. Keep doing what you're doing and push the boundaries of your comfort zone. You'll get there.



Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).


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## Racing roadkill (23 Dec 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).



Bright lights (visible from space bright) and a new jacket which is made entirely from the material that is used for the grey light up like a Christmas tree, when illuminated by cars headlights bands on most hi vis kit, didn't save me from the last clown. If you make something idiot proof, you just get better idiots.


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## jefmcg (24 Dec 2014)

Working on it....


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## mcshroom (24 Dec 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).


So dangerous in fact that cyclists live longer than non-cyclists


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## arch684 (24 Dec 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).


That's it I will be selling all my bikes


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## jefmcg (24 Dec 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).


Brilliantly phrased. Exactly the sort of thing I am fighting against feeling, and you've encapsulated it perfectly.


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## jefmcg (24 Dec 2014)

Thanks for the support, guys. 

My little panic seems to be over. I did 72km ride today (getting home from coffee with @vickster took a little diversion, see above). A few close passes at 40mph enraged me rather than frightened me, and the worst part of the ride was the cafe at Box Hill had closed when I got there - I'd only had a mince pie and 3 coffees by then, so I was hungry.

My speed is way down, but that's something I can tackle now I have stopped quaking with fear.


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## Pale Rider (24 Dec 2014)

jefmcg said:


> Working on it....
> View attachment 75087
> 
> View attachment 75102



I wouldn't want to have to buy a house anywhere on that route.

Looking on the bright side, if you do get flattened it will probably be by someone ever so nice and middle class.


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## Cuchilo (24 Dec 2014)

Middle class ? I don't think there are any ex council flats on that route


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## Hip Priest (24 Dec 2014)

I have periods of fearfulness around cycling as well, but they come and go. I just try to ride sensibly, and don't put myself at undue risk. I hope your fear passes soon.


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## tyred (26 Dec 2014)

Crankarm said:


> Yeah, but there are those that ignore the risks and end up dead. Cycling on the roads is dangerous, period. The more you do something the more likely you are going to come a cropper. You have to be so careful take every car pass as potentially your last moments on this earth. If it wasn't so dangerous why aren't more cycling? At night you can help yourself by having f**k off bright lights and I mean bright (but not flashing).




A word of advice, don't take up a job in advertising/marketing!


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## briantrumpet (26 Dec 2014)

tyred said:


> A word of advice, don't take up a job in advertising/marketing!


Ooh, I dunno, might do well at selling horror films...

"You thought that a walk in the park would be pleasant, well....."


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## ScotiaLass (26 Dec 2014)

Sorry I've just caught up with this thread.
To the OP, I'm sorry you're feeling this way 

I'm a very nervous road rider and so, for my sanity, stick to my MTB and towpaths, woods and light trails.
But, I won't give up cycling! I just stick to what I know and feel safe with, otherwise I'd never get on my bike.
I'm 51, with various medical issues, but I think I'd have a lot more if I didn't cycle!

Stay strong, stay safe but most of all, do what you are comfortable with


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## dr snuggles (26 Dec 2014)

I came a cropper on black ice a couple of years ago, same sort of scenario, it had been cold through the night but was quite warm when I left. I hurt myself only slightly but mentally it still plays on my mind. I still go out just take my time if I feel nervous. I still have a problem cornering on decents due to this. The confidence will come back slowly but only if you get out there and ride. I've just been out and it's freezing out there but no problem whatsoever.
As for the RTC's, in my head you are always on the verge of an accident when riding on roads but I'll never let that stop me I love it too much for that! Just do everything you can to stay alert. I must admit though I've never been hit but I have had some really hairy moments.


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## steveindenmark (26 Dec 2014)

Reading posts like this makes me realise how lucky I am to be living in Denmark and having the cycling infrastructure we have.

We were out today for a 12 miler on small roads close to home. It was half cycle paths and half not. We were passed by 3 cars and given lots of space. You can bet you house that the drivers passing you are either cyclists or their family is and so they have empathy for you.

It was an enjoyable ride, but it always is enjoyable riding here.

Here is Jannie today. This cycle path, like many in Denmark, is alongside a wide but not overly used road.

Great weather and great cycling today. A few degrees below freezing.


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## sheffgirl (27 Dec 2014)

I was a little nervous the first time I rode on the road again after being knocked off. I was conscious of every car passing me, plus it was the first time I'd ever ridden this bike, and I set off late 
I chickened out the second ride because it was really windy and I felt too nervous riding on 60mph roads whilst getting blown about.
One thing I have found is that if I'm crossing the road walking and a car gets close to me, I feel a sense of dread as if they are going to hit me


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## Racing roadkill (27 Dec 2014)

sheffgirl said:


> I was a little nervous the first time I rode on the road again after being knocked off. I was conscious of every car passing me, plus it was the first time I'd ever ridden this bike, and I set off late
> I chickened out the second ride because it was really windy and I felt too nervous riding on 60mph roads whilst getting blown about.
> One thing I have found is that if I'm crossing the road walking and a car gets close to me, I feel a sense of dread as if they are going to hit me


That's about right. You have to keep a sense of perspective though. I've been taken out twice this year. It sucks but I'm not giving up.


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## glenn forger (27 Dec 2014)

Courage isn't the absence of fear.


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## Truth (27 Dec 2014)

To the OP, I like you and many here have been through the same thing
Its terrible but you have to cycle through it, the fear does dwindle, thats a promise!
Good luck


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## confusedcyclist (31 Dec 2014)

It's admirable that you have kept going despite your experiences, go easy on yourself and take the time off if you feel like it. Cycling should be a joyous thing. But the best way to get over nerves is to confront your fears head on. As long as they are irrational, and you will know they are, you will soon over come them. If however, you are nervous about cornering at 30mph on black ice (like I did a couple of weeks back) you'd be right to feel nervous about repeating that mistake again. It's your survival instinct!

Minimise your risks, and only take ones that you know are acceptable to you, you'll soon realise that getting out there is perfectly safe.

You'll be fine!


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## Truth (31 Dec 2014)

VERY wise words indeed


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## jefmcg (22 Jan 2015)

fark.

Things were really coming together for me. This week I decided to enter Paris Brest Paris. I set some short-term and some long term goals. My resolution to lose weight was already showing progress: I managed to drop several kilos. I picked out my qualifying rides and made a training plan. 

Guess what happened last night? I'm popping down to the grocery store on my folding bike, and it folded. Bruised head and much more seriously broken clavicle. At the risk of repeating myself, fark.

Who knows I'll be cycling again. And how terrified I'm going to be.

My inner three-year-old once a Hug.Of courseIf I had a hug, I would scream with pain


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## jefmcg (22 Jan 2015)

PS using dictation on the Mac for the first time so apologies for any typos


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## ColinJ (22 Jan 2015)

Oh no! 

How on earth does a folding bike fold when you are riding it? (The only scenario I can think of is trying to bunnyhop a pothole, or something similar to that.)

Good luck with overcoming this latest setback.


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## jefmcg (22 Jan 2015)

ColinJ said:


> How on earth does a folding bike fold when you are riding it?



The front wheel came out of the quick release, I think.








View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_pmJ78wDf8


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## vickster (22 Jan 2015)

GWS

I hope the hospital has good news for you tomorrow and we'll both be back and riding by Easter @jefmcg virtual hug


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## Pat "5mph" (22 Jan 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I'm popping down to the grocery store on my folding bike, and it folded


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## jefmcg (23 Jan 2015)

Haven't seen a specialist yet, but the pain is quite manageable. Which is good, I'm a big sook. Insomnia is a big problem. Went to bed after 10 last night and woke again before 2am, done for the night. Any tips for sleeping?


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## Mo1959 (23 Jan 2015)

jefmcg said:


> fark.
> 
> Things were really coming together for me. This week I decided to enter Paris Brest Paris. I set some short-term and some long term goals. My resolution to lose weight was already showing progress: I managed to drop several kilos. I picked out my qualifying rides and made a training plan.
> 
> ...


Oh no.....just caught up with this. Hope it's a straightforward break and mends well. I used to think breaking a collar bone was one of the better bones to break if there can be such a thing, but as I found out, it is not.

Haven't been out on the bike for nearly 3 weeks myself as I'm terrified of coming off again so haven't risked any chance of icy conditions. Hope you mend well and regain your confidence. Afraid it does take time.


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## Mo1959 (23 Jan 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Haven't seen a specialist yet, but the pain is quite manageable. Which is good, I'm a big sook. Insomnia is a big problem. Went to bed after 10 last night and woke again before 2am, done for the night. Any tips for sleeping?


Mine was so bad I ended up just propping myself up on a comfy chair with the duvet over me. Lying down was just too sore initially. Tuck a pillow/cushion under the bad arm to rest it on too.


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## si_c (23 Jan 2015)

User13710 said:


> I got every cushion and pillow in the place and made a great sloping pile at the end of the bed, so I was sleeping propped up at 45 degrees and could turn slightly onto my good side. The first week or so will be the worst, then it does get better gradually. Have a kip in the day if you're tired - a lot of healing takes place during sleep.



More or less what I did when I shattered my clavicle. In the end I invested in a proper V shape pillow, which helped a huge amount, as lying on my left side I couldn't easily roll onto the right shoulder. I also found taking painkillers before going to bed helped.

As TMN said the first week was pretty awful but I got used to it. Hope you're feeling better soon!


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## John the Monkey (23 Jan 2015)

Pat "5mph" said:


> I'm scared in traffic all the time, even though I never actually had a crash or a near miss.


Likewise, although I've been hit (car and a bus, in separate incidents), had a fair few serious near misses. I don't know how you ride so people don't try to enter roundabouts through your backwheel, or decide that they can beat you around illegally parked DHL vans when they have neither the room or the speed. Or how you stop people deciding to "punishment pass" you just because they're having a bad day.

I think it helps that I tend to take a break from the long commute in winter - around the time I'm getting sick of it all, I get a rest, and by the time the weather's better, I'm sick of being stuck on the train and ready to get back to my bike.

I really don't like cycling in Britain very much; there's an undercurrent that mixes indifference to our safety, and active hostility that I find difficult to deal with at times. I like cycling more than I dislike all that, so I carry on.


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## mythste (23 Jan 2015)

John the Monkey said:


> I like cycling more than I dislike all that, so I carry on.



Amen.

GWS, try to remember those wonderful summer runs! You don't have to ride your bike all year round, and certainly not if you're uncomfortable!


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## mjr (23 Jan 2015)

John the Monkey said:


> Likewise, although I've been hit (car and a bus, in separate incidents), had a fair few serious near misses. I don't know how you ride so people don't try to enter roundabouts through your backwheel, or decide that they can beat you around illegally parked DHL vans when they have neither the room or the speed. Or how you stop people deciding to "punishment pass" you just because they're having a bad day.


We can't really stop them, but I can be a stroppy so-and-so sometimes and if I think someone is about to put me in danger, I tell them so and basically start trying to direct the traffic near me in a minor way (oi! You! Stop! that sort of thing). Usually it works. White-on-dark-blue or black-and-white coats/hats and social compliance is a wonderful thing!  I agree that many road users have a bad attitude - I suspect it's as common amongst cyclists but they're less dangerous to me than most motorists.

Ice is more worrying though. I think my last fall off the bike was on ice last year. It made a change for it not to be my fault, although I don't crash much and fall off even less. I fixed enough of the bent bits (with some help) and continued the ride, returning home after another 60 miles or so, although I was wary of any more icy bits. Just keep reminding yourself, cycling is safe and you can reduce most of the risks by taking care.

I do have a rather atypical commute now though, where I can remain off-carriageway if I like (thank you Norfolk!), although I do usually use the left lane of some multi-lane sections because they're much faster. So at least I get to choose whether to deal with possibly some drivers on the carriageway or some bad surfaces and junctions on the cycleway, depending on my mood.

Sadly, off-carriageway cycleways here are ungritted (damn you Norfolk!  and this is part of why the surfaces are bad, as the repeated freeze/melt breaks them up) but I've just been out on the ancient MTB with new spiked tyres and those tyres are a revelation. I wasn't even sure it was icy until I turned to put the sun in front of me and saw it shining off the solid puddle surfaces!  Any time the bike started to slide, the spikes on the edge bit and the bike corrected, which does make the steering feel very strange (at first I thought it was just an MTB/tourer difference, but once I saw the ice, I realised what was going on). I heartily recommend them to anyone who can stomach the £30 cost and 20% slow-down... and think how much faster the road bikes will seem when conditions are better!


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## John the Monkey (23 Jan 2015)

mjray said:


> We can't really stop them, but I can be a stroppy so-and-so sometimes and if I think someone is about to put me in danger, I tell them so and basically start trying to direct the traffic near me in a minor way (oi! You! Stop! that sort of thing).


My last properly nasty encounter was with a bus driver who wanted to beat me through a pinch point.

As a cyclist in Britain, your Hobson's choice is take primary (and prevent the dangerous overtake, possibly provoking worse behaviour afterwards) or ride near the kerb and get squeezed.

I chose the former, and got a tailgating through the obstacle (accompanied by continuous horn sounding) then a close pass at speed that became increasingly close.

I regularly encounter a guy in a shitty old Green land rover who habitually close passes me, despite my frequently expressed dislike for that. I've seen numerous ped crossing phases of a local toucan crossing blocked by drivers going nose to tail in slow traffic, even when a disabled man in an electric wheelchair was clearly visible waiting to cross (that lasted five phases). I could go on.

You can do all this stuff, the taking the lane, the waving at people who let you out, and blah blah blah, but ultimately, enough British drivers are convinced of their absolute right to the road that it doesn't make a lot of difference. And it doesn't even have to be malicious - I doubt the woman who damned near clipped me because the two litre bottle of water she was drinking from made it difficult for her to steer gave a second thought to the close pass she gave me.

That's the part of the equation I struggle with. My like of cycling exceeds my dislike of all this stuff (just) but I have days I get back and wonder what on earth I'm doing, and why.


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## The Central Scrutinizer (23 Jan 2015)

Came off the bike in december 2013 not through ice but spilled fuel seeping up to the surface of the roads due to the cold and damp conditions,even though i was really going slow at the time it still resulted in taking the skin off my thigh and wrecking the rear derailleur.
I recently bought a giant defy 2 composite and i'm itching to get a first ride on it but my head is ruling my heart in saying wait for better conditions.


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## jefmcg (23 Jan 2015)

So I've mixed feelings about the NHS today. Apparently a consultant looked at my x-ray, and wants to treat it conservatively. But I didn't speak with him; I got call from a nurse who clearly did not know what the x-ray looked like. I'd seen it and it looked like a huge displacement to me. I asked you about this, and she said there is a separation in a bone at the shoulder. I assumed, therefore, that what I had thought was displacement was the normal bone structure and there was a hairline fracture in the clavicle. She clearly had no knowledge of anything except that I wasn't going to see a doctor for 4 weeks. She was the gatekeeper and could not give me any more information. 

To cut a long story short, I got a copy of the x-ray and to my GP. There's a centimetre displacement. GP called registrar. Registrar thinks it should heal without any treatment. Seeing GP on Monday, and decide where to go from there


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## jefmcg (23 Jan 2015)

Fascinating. My brother broke his collarbone in 1970 or 71. I remember we saw doctor he wasn't a regular GP and didn't know us very well. He wrapped my brother in a figure 8 bandage. My brother had eczema, so his skin was sensitive. Our regular GP saw the bandage and removes immediately, taking a layer of my brother skin with it. So I know what you mean. Surprised they were still doing it 40 years later

You are right, the GP doesn't know any better than I do; but At least he knows what a collarbone looks like. I just googled clavicle X-rays and realised most of them are worse than mine.


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## deptfordmarmoset (23 Jan 2015)

Sorry you're having a bad winter of it. I've had bad winters that I've had to expel from my memory and it sounds like you're having one of them. Hope you heal quickly.


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## jefmcg (23 Jan 2015)

thanks for advice everyone. I'm snuggled in bed with my laptop, and a body pillow and lots of other pillows. I'd like to point out that the body pillow does not have a picture of an anime character on it.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwrf8loXceA


night


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## jefmcg (24 Apr 2015)

Just thought I'd update. Irrational fear has been replaced by irrational fearlessness. My broken clavicle has not healed, but I've been told I can still ride, so I have been. Done a couple of 200km rides and one 300km ride, without worrying at all. Maybe I'm just bipolar?

The folder has been banished to the shed until it sees fit to apologise.


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## raleighnut (24 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> Just thought I'd update. Irrational fear has been replaced by irrational fearlessness. My broken clavicle has not healed, but I've been told I can still ride, so I have been. Done a couple of 200km rides and one 300km ride, without worrying at all. Maybe I'm just bipolar?
> 
> The folder has been banished to the shed until it sees fit to apologise.


I've been riding with a non-union fractured clavicle for about 8 years now (too close to the end to plate and if I fell on it with it plated there I would be in schtuck) The only thing it affects is lifting weight over my head (and it aches like a begger in the cold but the pain-meds for my broken femur knock that on the head )


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## Mo1959 (24 Apr 2015)

raleighnut said:


> I've been riding with a non-union fractured clavicle for about 8 years now (too close to the end to plate and if I fell on it with it plated there I would be in schtuck) The only thing it affects is lifting weight over my head (and it aches like a begger in the cold but the pain-meds for my broken femur knock that on the head )


Although my plate seems to have kept mine together and I barely get much more than the odd twinge, I do still worry about landing on it again. I have these horrible visions of the plate detaching from the bone and ending up sticking somewhere it shouldn't!


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## raleighnut (24 Apr 2015)

Mo1959 said:


> Although my plate seems to have kept mine together and I barely get much more than the odd twinge, I do still worry about landing on it again. I have these horrible visions of the plate detaching from the bone and ending up sticking somewhere it shouldn't!


Pretty much what the Surgeon said to me.


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## anothersam (24 Apr 2015)

jefmcg said:


> I just googled clavicle X-rays and realised most of them are worse than mine.



Dr Google diagnoses on a curve. After my MRI I immediately had a look at other people's brains. Although I was assured mine was fine, or at least human, I detected anomalies the neurologist had missed









> The folder has been banished to the shed until it sees fit to apologise.







(that's a Brompton, but a Mezzo should also fit)


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