# ebike charging question



## terry_gardener (13 Jun 2020)

So i have had the ebike for 2 weeks and done 119 miles. i have charged it twice. 

my question is do you charge it after each ride or wait till it drops alittle first (ie to 30-60%). just i have read different opinions online. 

also just wondering what assistance and gear do you normally use.


----------



## dodgy (13 Jun 2020)

I seldom charge mine to 100%, prefer to charge it to 80%, it's better for the life of the battery.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (13 Jun 2020)

From what I have read the most important thing is to try to leave it about 50% if you are not going to use it for a while

But if it is getting used a fair bit then personally I have always (i.e. for the last 12 years) run it until it has a bit left - but not enough for a normal ride - and then charged it from there
If it is a good system , with a well designed BMS, then the system will balance the cells when it is charged and will not allow the cells to become over charged - cheap Chinese system may not be so good


----------



## Slick (13 Jun 2020)

I always thought it was best to recharge after every use, but I certainly wouldn't leave it for more than 24 hours before recharging.


----------



## aldus (13 Jun 2020)

I take the approach of letting it get down to around 20% power, then charge it up fully...


----------



## terry_gardener (13 Jun 2020)

i found a bosch ebike battery manual and this is what it says

No memory effect – The Bosch rechargeable batteries with lithiumion cells can be briefly charged at any time regardless of their charge state. Interruptions of the charging process do not harm the battery. Complete discharge is not required.
Very low self-discharge rates – Even after prolonged storage, 
such as  during the winter, it is possible to use the rechargeable battery without recharging it. For longer storage, a charge status of approx. 30 to 60% is recommended.

so from this it doesn't matter either is fine.


----------



## Slick (13 Jun 2020)

terry_gardener said:


> i found a bosch ebike battery manual and this is what it says
> 
> No memory effect – The Bosch rechargeable batteries with lithiumion cells can be briefly charged at any time regardless of their charge state. Interruptions of the charging process do not harm the battery. Complete discharge is not required.
> Very low self-discharge rates – Even after prolonged storage,
> ...


If all else fails, read the instructions.


----------



## Stul (14 Jun 2020)

Thanks for posting this topic as I have also been wondering what is the best technique. When I (recently) got my first e-bike I was sure I read that after the first use it is best to "empty" the battery and then fully re-charge it which I did. But I could not find anything deffinitive either in the manual or on the internet as to what to do ongoing? I always thought that a Lithium battery was less critical as they had no memory so could be charged up at any point. As a compromise I was just going to put it on charge whenever it drops to 2 bars? (which is about 40%).


----------



## terry_gardener (14 Jun 2020)

Stul said:


> Thanks for posting this topic as I have also been wondering what is the best technique. When I (recently) got my first e-bike I was sure I read that after the first use it is best to "empty" the battery and then fully re-charge it which I did. But I could not find anything deffinitive either in the manual or on the internet as to what to do ongoing? I always thought that a Lithium battery was less critical as they had no memory so could be charged up at any point. As a compromise I was just going to put it on charge whenever it drops to 2 bars? (which is about 40%).


the manual that came with the bike just told you how to remove the battery and the cover hiding the battery. it didn't even tell you how long to charge it. so i went to the bosch ebike site and had a look. like you said this seems to divide opinion.


----------



## welsh dragon (14 Jun 2020)

I charge mine when there is 1 bar left. I never let it run down to nothing.


----------



## Levo-Lon (14 Jun 2020)

I commute and go for MTB rides on mine.
For a weeks commute I charge it Wednesday and Friday for the weekend.

If I'm not using it I charge it up for when I do.
Wife's ebike can go long periods without use but has had no detrimental effects.

Nice thing with the Levo is you can use the phone app and get all the info there.


----------



## CXRAndy (14 Jun 2020)

To prolong battery life repeated charging should maintain a charge of minimum 20% and max 80%. This increases the times you can recharge the battery- doubling to triple the life.

That doesn't mean you cant charge to 100% or run down to nearly flat. Its just recommended to stay in the parameters mentioned. 

If you're going for a big ride charge to 100% just before departure, this protects the battery from sitting at 100% for long periods. 

Depending on the sophistication of the charging system you may be able to determine charge level via software.

I have two chargers for our ebike, one will just charge to max, the other is can set a charge level


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (14 Jun 2020)

Although I have seen no actual documentation for this - it seems to be implied that the better batteries/charger systems have optimised charging built into the management system

e.g. on my wife's folding ebike you are supposed to have the battery switched on when you charge. I assume that this is so the BMS is activated so it can balance the cells and manage the total charge level in the most effective manner

I have seen the advise for only charging just before going out - but given that most systems take several hours to charge then this assumes a very well organised ride schedule. Anyone using the ebike to commute may well decide whether to use the ebike, or not, after they get up and look at the weather - so they would have no chance to start charging at that point - and will simply charge it over night.

Personally I normally decide to go out on a whim - so the battery needs to be ready at a few minutes notice

So - the electronics don't really match the real-life usage very well - I suppose this means that most batteries do not last as long as the theoretical maximum


----------



## terry_gardener (14 Jun 2020)

thanks for the replies, interesting to read


----------



## Mike_P (15 Jun 2020)

Varies by battery / make, the one on my Giant ebike apparently should be fully discharged after 15 charges or ever 3 months to increase in lifespan.


----------



## numbnuts (15 Jun 2020)

I use my battery until there is about 5 miles left in it and charge it up until the red light turns to green on the charger, after 4 years, so far so good


----------



## Mike_P (15 Jun 2020)

Thinking of rigging up some appropriate voltage lights to run the battery down as and when.


----------



## gzoom (16 Jun 2020)

Mike_P said:


> Varies by battery / make, the one on my Giant ebike apparently should be fully discharged after 15 charges or ever 3 months to increase in lifespan.



If it's a lithium ion cell there is no need to do this. The BMS may 'forget' the true capacity of the cells if you don't do full on 100-0% drains but you will not loss that capacity to degredation.

The worst culprits for causing early degredation in lithium ion cells are:


Extreme energy transfers - so during extreme fast charging for EVs, doesn't really apply for bikes.
Letting the battery sit at 0% for ages.
Letting the battery sit at 100% for ages.
Everything else you do should be fine. Most lithium ion cells should still hold over 80% charge way beyond 500+ cycles. Am getting about 50 miles per charge at present, which means 25,000 miles before any degredation becomes noticeable.


----------



## confusedcyclist (18 Jun 2020)

I ride the same milage day in day out, so I have a good idea how much I need in the battery, and I aim to keep the capacity between 20% at lowest and 80%. Using the battery beyond these extremes increases the wear rate. Happily I use roughly 60% in any given day, so I charge up to 80%, and when I return home it will be down to 20%. If I'm storing the bike for the weekend, I'll store it at 60% and top it off to 80% just before the next ride. If I know I need it the next day I might just charge to 80% when I get back. This is easy to do with a smart plug socket and remotely from the garage using an app and build in schedules and timers. I worked out that it takes roughly 2.1 minutes to charge 1% of the battery up to 80%, then it starts to slow down. I'm able to get get a ball park time to desired capacity with a quick calculation, however, because my computer has bluetooth I can remotely check the battery percentage in my bosch app and if it's too low, I can top it up with a quick swipe of a button. Wonders of modern tech! 

If I didn't have consistent miles, and never know how much I needed in the battery, I would probably just charge to 100% just in time for my ride, being sure to charge only to 60% for periods of storage.


----------



## rogerzilla (18 Jun 2020)

Main thing with Li-ion batteries is to keep them cool, so try to avoid storage in a hot shed, and park it in the shade.


----------



## Zanelad (19 Jun 2020)

I charge mine when it dtops to 15 to 20%. In the summer i use about 10% of the battety on each leg of my 11 mile each way commute. (more in the colder months) I reckon i might squeeze 5 round trips from it, especially if there's a decent tail wind on one or two days. During lockdown when I've been furloughed and only riding for exercise I'll charge it at around 30%. Giant say it should take 1000 charges before dropping down to 80% output. I've had the bike a little over a year and charged it 25 times. Sad sack that I am, I've kept a record. I reckon the battery will see me out.


----------



## RichardB (19 Jun 2020)

I recently had an issue with my battery refusing to take a charge. Turns out it was a blown charging fuse, so no drama apart from the fuse being an odd size I had to order off the internet. In conversation with the dealer I bought it from, he asked me how I was charging the battery. I told him I was using the bike almost daily to approx 50% capacity, and topping up fully overnight, every time it was used. "Your battery will love you for it" were his words. It's still holding a good charge 6 years later.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (19 Jun 2020)

The problem with all of this is that different people, including manufacturers seem to offer different advise

some say leave it (as long as not too low ) and charge it just before you ride it. But this is a bit difficult when it takes several hours to charge.
This assumes that your usage is very predictable (like commuting) but a lot of people use them for pleasure and just decide to go out in 20 minutes - therefore not enough to recharge it.

Some other people say it should be charged up to 50% - but don't provide any reasonable way to do this. If this is important then you need to be able to adjust the charger/BMS so that it monitors the charge level and stops at 50%. I know that some people can measure the voltage (or current?) and work out that it is at 50% - but my system is a Bosch one and I don;t want to start messing around with measuring it in case it gets confused and bricks itself.


My bike gets used most days (not yesterday or today as it is raining) so it gets charged about 2-3 times a week - normally overnight so I am depending on the BMS to not allow the cells to get over charged - then it gets used the next day up to about 60-70% (15-20 miles ish)

However my wife's bike only gets used once a month or so (normally when I feel sorry for it). I normally try to charge it for a few hours after I get it down to low charge so it is about 50% - but I have no real way of knowing where it really is. It is a Carrera witrh a Bafang hub motor and the display of the charge is only on the bike and is unreliable as it tends to vary depending on what I am doing. I can be going up a hill and it will show 1 light on the charge - then I get to the top of the hill and it happily lights up 3 leds.
So I have little real idea of where the charge is really up to until the motor starts cutting out when I am pedalling!


----------



## RichardB (19 Jun 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> the display of the charge is only on the bike and is unreliable as it tends to vary depending on what I am doing. I can be going up a hill and it will show 1 light on the charge - then I get to the top of the hill and it happily lights up 3 leds.



Mine does this. The reading without any load is the true reading, I think. At a full charge, I have one red LED and three green. After about 10 miles, if I go up a steep hill the green lights disappear, but they come straight back when I am on the level again. I suspect it is just the voltage dropping under load. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (19 Jun 2020)

RichardB said:


> Mine does this. The reading without any load is the true reading, I think. At a full charge, I have one red LED and three green. After about 10 miles, if I go up a steep hill the green lights disappear, but they come straight back when I am on the level again. I suspect it is just the voltage dropping under load. Nothing to worry about.


Yes - I agree


----------



## Andy_R (19 Jun 2020)

welsh dragon said:


> I charge mine when there is 1 bar left. I never let it run down to nothing.


...or 14.7psi....


----------



## CXRAndy (20 Jun 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> The problem with all of this is that different people, including manufacturers seem to offer different advise
> 
> some say leave it (as long as not too low ) and charge it just before you ride it. But this is a bit difficult when it takes several hours to charge.
> This assumes that your usage is very predictable (like commuting) but a lot of people use them for pleasure and just decide to go out in 20 minutes - therefore not enough to recharge it.
> ...



If you know how long it takes to charge to full, use a mains timer socket to switch on and finish just before you use it.

Sitting at 100% for a period is the issue

A battery that is dipping two lights whilst climbing indicates it just about to drop out.

I have two chargers, one that will go to max 100%(58.6V) and another which will shut off 85/90/95%. This is the one I use for my wife's bike.

My wife's bike has a voltage display, we have now learnt 48V is critical and any excessive demand (hills, sudden acceleration) will shut the motor down.

On big rides 70+ miles I would use the max charger


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (20 Jun 2020)

Interesting

now on my 4th ebike and I have never seen a charger that shuts off at a charge level

Is this normal - how does it work??


----------



## CXRAndy (21 Jun 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Interesting
> 
> now on my 4th ebike and I have never seen a charger that shuts off at a charge level
> 
> Is this normal - how does it work??





ebikeerwidnes said:


> Interesting
> 
> now on my 4th ebike and I have never seen a charger that shuts off at a charge level
> 
> Is this normal - how does it work??



If you have an Ebike that comes from one of the big manufacturers, Bosch, Yamaha, etc. they tend to have a plug connector which might be difficult to source. 

The chargers are available from ebike supplies where aftermarket kits are sold, ebay or Amazon.

They work by holding a certain voltage below maximum

Here is a 36V version
https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/36v-advanced-300w-eco-charger-2-to-6a-80-90-100

There are others for 48V, 52V and above


----------



## aldus (23 Jun 2020)

So a tad more detail — as I said, I run mine down to "one bar left" then hook up the battery when I get back in. I charge it until it shows "full bars", unplug and put the battery back on the bike (it's easier for me to charge it off the bike). I usually wind up riding within about 36 hours of that, so it's not sitting fully charged for long.

I don't ride all that far, most of my trips are under 5k, so that charge could last several weeks. The pandemic has had a definite stifling effect on my riding...


----------



## CXRAndy (23 Jun 2020)

aldus said:


> So a tad more detail — as I said, I run mine down to "one bar left" then hook up the battery when I get back in. I charge it until it shows "full bars", unplug and put the battery back on the bike (it's easier for me to charge it off the bike). I usually wind up riding within about 36 hours of that, so it's not sitting fully charged for long.
> 
> I don't ride all that far, most of my trips are under 5k, so that charge could last several weeks. The pandemic has had a definite stifling effect on my riding...



That is quite a long time sat fully charged. I was talking less than a hour fully charged. 
Some guys fully charge, then go for a quick ride to pull down battery charge a couple hundred millivolts so its just off peak


----------



## aldus (23 Jun 2020)

That's sitting for 36 hours before I ride it again... a day and a half after it topped off... it usually take about 2 hours to charge to full from 1 bar down. Sometimes, it's less than that.


----------



## CXRAndy (23 Jun 2020)

aldus said:


> That's sitting for 36 hours before I ride it again... a day and a half after it topped off... it usually take about 2 hours to charge to full from 1 bar down. Sometimes, it's less than that.



Couldn't you put it on a mains timer so its fully charged just before you're are ready to use the bike?

By not allowing the battery to sit fully charged increases the times you can recharge the battery 2 to 3 fold

My EV has a timer which is set to finish charging just before I want to drive it. A tad more sophisticated, but a timer non the less. When Im not using the car its left around 50-80% charged


----------



## aldus (23 Jun 2020)

You seem obsessed with the fact that I may not ride my bike, after it is fully, charged for as long as 36 hours... I really don't understand what the issue is.

The battery is removed from the bike.
It's plugged in to the charger on my kitchen counter, I can clearly see the charge levels.
Once it's at 100% charge, the battery is removed from the charger and put back on the bike.
That's it. It might be a day or two before I go back and ride.

There is nothing in either the Bosch manual or the Victoria manual that says anything about this being problematic... the ONLY thing the manual says about anything vaguely related is this:

"7.2 Storing the battery
If you do not use the battery for a long period of time, please store it as follows:
- Charge the battery to about 60 to 80% of its capacity."

... and while they don't define " a long period of time" I'm reasonably confident that it's more — no, MUCH more — than 36 hours.

There's always enough charge to get me where I need to go, when I get home and the battery needs it, I'll recharge it.


----------



## CXRAndy (23 Jun 2020)

aldus said:


> You seem obsessed with the fact that I may not ride my bike, after it is fully, charged for as long as 36 hours... I really don't understand what the issue is.
> 
> The battery is removed from the bike.
> It's plugged in to the charger on my kitchen counter, I can clearly see the charge levels.
> ...



Im not obsessed, if you're happy with the method you use. I was pointing out that you could potentially triple the battery life, but Im not forcing it upon you. Batteries are very expensive. Best of luck


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Apr 2021)

To bring this back up. An informative simple video to basic battery care 


View: https://youtu.be/WVcFytLYOIQ


----------



## Phaeton (28 Apr 2021)

What a terrible presenter, couldn't get past 2 minutes,


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Apr 2021)

Phaeton said:


> What a terrible presenter, couldn't get past 2 minutes,



You missed the information then


----------



## Phaeton (28 Apr 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> You missed the information then


Yep, just couldn't make it that far which was a shame, is he such a prat all the way through?


----------



## Legomutton (28 Apr 2021)

aldus said:


> That's sitting for 36 hours before I ride it again... a day and a half after it topped off... it usually take about 2 hours to charge to full from 1 bar down. Sometimes, it's less than that.



Having 5 bars implies that 1 bar = 0-20% of available charge, 2 bars 20%-40%, and so on. Presumably if you stop charging immediately the 5th bar shows, the battery will be at ~80% charge anyway which is OK for storage and optimal for maximising life if we believe the usual advice.  Only when the charger shuts off will it be at 100%. Not that the bar / percentage relationship is going to be an exact science anyway.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (28 Apr 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Yep, just couldn't make it that far which was a shame, is he such a prat all the way through?


It gets better

Ok low bar based on the start - and he is quite American and enthusiastic but he makes sense and the information matches what other people have said.
Quite useful in all
bit like a ride I do which goes past a sewage farm - put up with smell for a few minutes to where you want to go.


----------



## mustang1 (28 Apr 2021)

i dont have n ebike but if i did, i would just charge it like my phone, in other words, whenever it needs charging, i'll charge it.

BTW OP, what bike did you get? Would you say you are slim or a heavy kind of rider? I'm the latter, and am often intrigued by e-bike mileages that people achieve as it sets me up for a possible future ebike purchase.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (28 Apr 2021)

As far as charge indicators are concerned I wouldn't trust them.
I find that mine starts off with 5 lights
after about 15-20 miles it drops to 4 lights
but then by the time it gets to 40 miles 3 more have gone out leaving only one left and that might start flashing any time soon.
That is based on cold windy(ish weather and riding in Tour mode but it does imply that the first light goes out after about 45% used assuming that it cuts off at about 10% to prevent damage.
I think the best idea for long term storage is what he said about fully charging it then going for a 5-10 miles ride


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Apr 2021)

mustang1 said:


> Would you say you are slim or a heavy kind of rider? I'm the latter, and am often intrigued by e-bike mileages that people achieve as it sets me up for a possible future ebike purchase.



I'm a heavy rider too, even at my lightest I weigh 90+Kg. Mileage is very difficult to quantify, there are quite a few variables. Namely, rider weight, seating position, sit up or more aero racer position( bike dependent), tyres, knobbly or smooth road tyre, battery size is one of the most important factors. Rider fitness and pace you want to ride at, eco or sports setting. 

If you want long range look at bikes with 700+Watt/hours battery. Or be able to ride above the cut-off speed most of the time. You could switch off the motor- some bikes feel ride riding in treacle when switched off.

I personally have ordered two, 840W/hr batteries for my bike, if Im going to go long distance or in sports mode for hoon-ing off road.

Finger in the air expect 25miles but could get 50miles range with eco careful riding.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> As far as charge indicators are concerned I wouldn't trust them.
> I find that mine starts off with 5 lights
> after about 15-20 miles it drops to 4 lights
> but then by the time it gets to 40 miles 3 more have gone out leaving only one left and that might start flashing any time soon.
> ...



As you say, you need to know your battery indicator, and the depletion is not linear.

I might get 15 or so miles out of the first couple of bars on my Bosch bike, but the last one may only last fewer than 10.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> I personally have ordered two, 840W/hr batteries for my bike, if Im going to go long distance or in sports mode for hoon-ing off road.



As someone who likes to do 100+ mile rides, albeit at push bike pace, I'm looking forward to seeing your new bike.


----------



## CXRAndy (28 Apr 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> As someone who likes to do 100+ mile rides, albeit at push bike pace, I'm looking forward to seeing your new bike.



Hopefully not too far off now, manufacturer asked me about tyre options before completion. Hoping before end of May


----------



## Drago (28 Apr 2021)

Mine has an intelligent charger, and with each charge charges it to a suitable max capacity that may not actually be 100% 'full'. The electronics manage that far better than me guessing, or using a stopwatch, or relying on the crude indicator to decide when 80% is there. This is how a supposedly puny 317Wh capacity can take me some very respectable mileages - no point having a 400 or 500 Wh battery if a dumb charger isn't utilising that effectively.

The only thing Suntour recommend is not to leave it fully charged for more than a few days, and to totally discharge the battery every 30 or so charge cycles. Beyond that the charger takes care of business very nicely.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Hopefully not too far off now, manufacturer asked me about tyre options before completion. Hoping before end of May



Jolly good, you should still get a few months of the better weather.


----------



## Pale Rider (28 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Mine has an intelligent charger, and with each charge charges it to a suitable max capacity that may not actually be 100% 'full'. The electronics manage thar far better than me guessing, or using a stopeatch, or relying on the crude indicator to decide when 80% is there.
> 
> The only thing Suntour recommend is not to keave it fully charged for more than a few days, and to totally discharge the battery every 30 or so charge cycles. Beyond that the charger takes care of business.



Bosch is similar, although some of the cheaper Chinese chargers are more crude.

'Cycling' (ho-ho) the battery occasionally is good advice for any gadget which uses rechargeables.

However, it's important not to run it any flatter than the appliance allows.

It can be difficult, nigh on impossible, to resucitate a dead flat battery.

Again, some of the real cheap and nasty ebikes' controllers used to allow the controller to do that, although I think those bikes are now rarely on sale.


----------



## Legomutton (29 Apr 2021)

Health warning, I'm not a battery expert, I have a fair amount of experience with lead-acid leisure batteries but here I am just parroting stuff I have looked up and made an effort to corroborate.

This article is about 10 years old and I can't speak for its accuracy, but it says that Li-ion batteries do not need to be "saturated" or fully cycled like NiCads and NiMH, in fact it's better if they aren't charged to 100%*** (and some chargers actually aim off for that, shutting off at a little less than maximum voltage).

Panasonic 18650 and similar cells are Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide type (NMC) if anybody wants to look them up.

Part of the difficulty here is not knowing for certain what the designed behaviour of a particular charger is.

The summary from the above-linked article:

*Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries*
- Turn off the device or disconnect the load on charge to allow the current to drop unhindered during saturation. A parasitic load confuses the charger. [unlikely to apply to an e-bike].
- Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge at freezing temperature.
- Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
- Not all chargers apply a full topping charge and the battery may not be fully charged when the “ready” signal appears; a 100 percent charge on a fuel gauge may be a lie.
- Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.

***EDIT It has been pointed out to me that not charging fully could mess up the charge balancing of the cell groups as this commonly takes place after the charge process is otherwise complete. I did say I'm not an expert. Perhaps the statrting point should be to read the manuals, although neither of my Bosch battery or charger manuals is explicit on this point.
- Apply some charge to an empty battery before storing (40–50 percent SoC is ideal)


----------



## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

And switch on the charger prior to connecting the battery. This prevents any initial voltage spike from damaging the battery, or the battery's own on board electronics. One only needs to lurk around the ebike forums to see that one.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (29 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> And switch on the charger prior to connecting the battery. This prevents any initial voltage spike from damaging the battery, or the battery's own on board electronics. One only needs to lurk around the ebike forums to see that one.


I saw this and wondered as my wife's Carrera has specific instruction as to the order but my Raleigh (Bosch motor and battery) has no such instruction.
So - being me - I contacted Bosch and asked them. They basically said their systems are better designed and the order in which you plug things in doesn't matter as they are designed to protect from problems. They also said that over charging was not a problem as the system is designed to prevent it.


----------



## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

Theres at least one Bosch owner on the ebike web forum who has suffered. Im not a member, but i lurk, and I think the most recent one a month or 6 weeks back was a Bosch. Its not surprising they would not admit to even the most remote chance of a potential weakness - nonine will wver admit their product might break down,

Certainly the current Suntour system is a smart charger, and will neither over charge, or charge more than is optimum with respect to battery life. I should think that is also true of Bosch, so they're mpribably being honest about that but.


----------



## ebikeerwidnes (29 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> Theres at least one Bosch owner on the ebike web forum who has suffered. Im not a member, but i lurk, and I think the most recent one a month or 6 weeks back was a Bosch. Its not surprising they would not admit to even the most remote chance of a potential weakness - nonine will wver admit their product might break down,
> 
> Certainly the current Suntour system is a smart charger, and will neither over charge, or charge more than is optimum with respect to battery life. I should think that is also true of Bosch, so they're mpribably being honest about that but.


That's the problem with Bosch - they are great until they are not great then you have a problem!
I would not have chosen Bosch personally but I got upgraded due to problems so I didn't get to choose!


----------



## Drago (29 Apr 2021)

I think all the systems have their examples of Friday workmanship out there. 

However, some seem to have a reputation massively out of proportion with the reality of the numbers involved, so it takes a lot of quiet ferreting and mental counting when trying to decide what might be genuinely worth avoiding or not.


----------



## gavroche (29 Apr 2021)

I recharge mine after every ride and don't ride more than twice a week, weather allowing. I don't own an ebike but was refering to my legs. 😊


----------



## keithmac (16 Jun 2021)

I have a Dewalt Lithium Ion drill that is 15 years old, 2 batteries that get charged to 100% and both still have great usable life.

I charge my phone to 100%, never had a problem either.

My Lithium Ion Lawnmower and Hedge trimmer, same again charge battery before storage and not had an issue.

My ebike gets run down to 20% then a full charge, for the last 5 or 6 years.


----------



## neil_merseyside (16 Jun 2021)

keithmac said:


> I have a Dewalt Lithium Ion drill that is 15 years old, 2 batteries that get charged to 100% and both still have great usable life.
> 
> I charge my phone to 100%, never had a problem either.
> 
> ...


You put them on to charge you have no idea what level the charge controller takes them unless you test the SOC at charge termination?


----------



## keithmac (16 Jun 2021)

They all have charge indicators, I would assume full means 100%.

I've timed some batteries and worked it back through the charger current supply, definitely taken the maximum rated charge (100%).

Which battery would you like me to take a voltage of after a full charge, take your pick and we'll see what its SOC is.


----------



## neil_merseyside (16 Jun 2021)

Full on an ICE engine is either sensibly 1st or possibly 2nd click, but some folk fill the filler neck, invariably the guage shows full at 1st click (as needle is against the stop), so what the customer interface shows doesn't really matter. But if you've worked it back you've realised/confirmed the difference between reported and actual.


----------



## gzoom (20 Jun 2021)

2000 miles in, charging to 90% most nights, 3 % degradation after 41 cycles. Pretty impressive, at this rate the battery will easily last 10,000 miles before dropping to below 90% health assuming the cells behave like all other lithium ion cells and degradation slows down after the initial 5% drop.


----------

