# Are these times any good for a beginner.



## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

I have only taken up cycling this year and use an indoor bike currently. Not an expensive one though. I have no idea if these times are any good. I have set myself a target to cycle a marathon (42.17km) in under an hour. Thanks


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Mar 2021)

Distance on an indoor trainer has to be taken with a pinch of salt. So I wouldn’t worry about trying to compare it to anyone else. It’s meaningless. Good luck getting that distance under an hour on your trainer.


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## DRM (19 Mar 2021)

42 Km’s on an indoor bike are nothing like the same distance outside, outside I would expect that distance to be done in about 2 hours ish , doing it in an hour will have world tour teams chasing your signature, closely followed by UCI testers wanting blood and urine samples


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## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> 42 Km’s on an indoor bike are nothing like the same distance outside, outside I would expect that distance to be done in about 2 hours ish , doing it in an hour will have world tour teams chasing your signature, closely followed by UCI testers wanting blood and urine samples


😂😂 thanks for the info. 👍👍


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## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> 42 Km’s on an indoor bike are nothing like the same distance outside, outside I would expect that distance to be done in about 2 hours ish , doing it in an hour will have world tour teams chasing your signature, closely followed by UCI testers wanting blood and urine samples





Ming the Merciless said:


> Distance on an indoor trainer has to be taken with a pinch of salt. So I wouldn’t worry about trying to compare it to anyone else. It’s meaningless. Good luck getting that distance under an hour on your trainer.


Thanks for the info mate. 👍👍


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## vickster (19 Mar 2021)

You haven’t been anywhere so no KMs actually covered. However, spending 70 minutes on a turbo is decent going (or is it a spin or exercise bike, that’s not really cycling but CV exercise).
It’s now spring so get outside and go somewhere scenic


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## Sharky (19 Mar 2021)

In the world of UK timetrials, courses are such that you start and finish close together. This means that head/tail winds are compensated, as to is the gradients. This gives a reasonable metric for comparing yourself to other riders across the country. 

So if you can beat 20mph (30mins)on an out and back 10 mile course, you have done a good ride. 

Recommend joining a club and riding a few 10 mile timetrials. A good club rider will be aiming for 24 mins (25mph) and a top UK rider would be close to 20mins.

Good luck


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## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

Sharky said:


> In the world of UK timetrials, courses are such that you start and finish close together. This means that head/tail winds are compensated, as to is the gradients. This gives a reasonable metric for comparing yourself to other riders across the country.
> 
> So if you can beat 20mph (30mins)on an out and back 10 mile course, you have done a good ride.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the Info Sharky. Very interesting. Need to get a bike first 🤣🤣


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## IanSmithCSE (19 Mar 2021)

Good evening,

If you go to https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/find-a-course you can find a time trial course near to you, hopefully.

As these courses are just routes on public roads you can ride them yourself whenever you like.

Once you have found a course, you will find that it has a code something like K46/10. You can then search for that course code and local club's time trials results to see how you compare. As nowadays many casual triathletes also do these events so you won't just see times set by dedicated TTers on expensive dedicated TT bikes.

I agree with the 20/25mph comments above, but 20mph is faster than it sounds so don't be surprised if you get onto the road and find it initially unachievable.

Bye

Ian


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## Teamfixed (19 Mar 2021)

I agree with the above posters.... ask around where you live and you may find a local club running a weekly evening 10. This would give you a completely realistic measure and is also a good social thing.
You don't have to join a club (pretty sure not) if you prefer to wait a while but you will have to have third party insurance to enter a time trial from the likes of the CTC.


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## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good evening,
> 
> If you go to https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/find-a-course you can find a time trial course near to you, hopefully.
> 
> ...


Thanks for information Ian. Very useful indeed. 👍


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## Lovacott (19 Mar 2021)

The real joy of riding a bike is being out in the elements on the different road surfaces whilst negotiating the hills and the traffic. I'm happy if I can cover 15 miles in a hour, beside myself if I can do 20 miles. But I'd be bored sh!tless on an exercise bike in the front room (no matter how many pretend miles I'd covered).


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## Sharky (19 Mar 2021)

Teamfixed said:


> I agree with the above posters.... ask around where you live and you may find a local club running a weekly evening 10. This would give you a completely realistic measure and is also a good social thing.
> You don't have to join a club (pretty sure not) if you prefer to wait a while but you will have to have third party insurance to enter a time trial from the likes of the CTC.



Just googled Cycling time trials and it says ...

Entering Events

Whatever type of time trial you are entering, club or open, you must be a member of a club that is affiliated to Cycling Time Trials. Being a BCF or CTC member does not generally qualify you to ride time trials unless your BCF Division or CTC District Association is affiliated to CTT.

However, if you were to turn up at one of our evening 10's, you can join our club on the night and we have a policy of "first year is free".
I'm sure other clubs would have similar arrangements - they are unlikely to turn away a prospective new member.


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## PaulSB (19 Mar 2021)

philthecat said:


> I have only taken up cycling this year and use an indoor bike currently. Not an expensive one though. I have no idea if these times are any good. I have set myself a target to cycle a marathon (42.17km) in under an hour. Thanks
> View attachment 579376



TBH I don't really understand the numbers you've posted.

I have many friends who achieve an average of 42km/hour regularly on Zwift. They are all very experienced and very good cyclists on the real roads. I doubt anyone with a year's experience would hit this level.

You said you started this year? No chance in my opinion.


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## randynewmanscat (19 Mar 2021)

I've never used a trainer that recorded anything as I am old and cheapskate, I had a set of old school rollers for my road bikes but had no feedback apart from the amount of sweat coating the floor and the pitch of the belt sound changing if I put more grunt in.
As the others have noted an indoor trainer don't translate to the real world, a gentle breeze heading into your face is the same as tilting the road against you to some tune.
I like the idea of trainers that record power output, cumulative output and so on, it appeals to my competitive nature but I cannot stand static cycling, I used to watch the TV on my rollers but as the bike moved about crazily it was an unrewarding effort.
Just train hard if you are good with indoor trainers, the increased strength and the discipline to work do translate to the road.


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## Teamfixed (19 Mar 2021)

Sharky said:


> Just googled Cycling time trials and it says ...
> 
> Entering Events
> 
> ...


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## Teamfixed (19 Mar 2021)

Yes I wasn't quite sure on this.... but as you say very unlikely to not be given a start and if a rider has ctc/bcf cover and affiliation in place then should be ok.


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## HMS_Dave (19 Mar 2021)

Have you been out at all yet OP?


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## philthecat (19 Mar 2021)

PaulSB said:


> TBH I don't really understand the numbers you've posted.
> 
> I have many friends who achieve an average of 42km/hour regularly on Zwift. They are all very experienced and very good cyclists on the real roads. I doubt anyone with a year's experience would hit this level.


I haven’t got a years experience. I started in January 21. Also what are you not understanding from the numbers?


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## cougie uk (19 Mar 2021)

As has been said - it's not the same indoor as outdoor. 

Looks like you have a starting point though and good luck on getting to your target. I think you stand more chance inside rather than out. 

I love indoor training but the best bit is being fit for the outdoor rides.


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## philthecat (20 Mar 2021)

cougie uk said:


> As has been said - it's not the same indoor as outdoor.
> 
> Looks like you have a starting point though and good luck on getting to your target. I think you stand more chance inside rather than out.
> 
> I love indoor training but the best bit is being fit for the outdoor rides.


Thanks. This is the plan. Get fit first on the indoor bike then get in the roads and see where they take me. 👍👍


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## gzoom (20 Mar 2021)

philthecat said:


> I have set myself a target to cycle a marathon (42.17km) in under an hour.



26mph for an hour in the real world is getting on professional levels of fitness.

My best real world speed to cover 26 miles is 18mph, that puts me in roughly speaking top 1/3 of most Strava segments for the ride.

Friends who are fitter can hit 21-22mph over the same distances, their Strava segments are often in the top 10 for the ride.

I can just about hold 22-23mph on the flat with no head wind, but real world hills quickly brings down my average speed .


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## Lovacott (20 Mar 2021)

cougie uk said:


> I love indoor training but the best bit is being fit for the outdoor rides.


The very fact that I despise all forms of exercise is exactly why I ride a bike to work.

Press ups, crunches and all that other Joe Wicks bollox is simply a pain when there is stuff on the telly you could be watching.

Grunting a bike up a hill to accomplish a real life daily task is also a pain but it has an end product. I get to work, I get paid and my family gets to eat for another week.

I'm not knocking those who indoor train though. I acknowledge that it takes a lot more self-discipline to do something voluntarily every day (as opposed to commuting to work because you have to).


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## Lovacott (20 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> 26mph for an hour in the real world is getting on professional levels of fitness.


I did a 16mph hour this morning and the conditions were perfect. My top speed was 36mph (downhill) and I was doing 25mph on the flat stretches when I went full tilt at the pedals. There were a few hills on the route which dropped the average speed and I had quite a few coasting sections to rest my legs for a bit.

Maybe on a flat circuit I could have maintained 25mph for a minute or so, but each burst would have been followed by a bit of time off the pedals to give my blood flow a chance to catch up. I reckon I would average out at 20mph.

I am pretty fit (I do 20 miles per day of cycle commuting). I doubt I could manage a 25mph average speed though?

The only way for the OP to fully ascertain the real numbers is to get out on a real bike on real roads.


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## Tail End Charlie (20 Mar 2021)

I went out the other day, the first 17 miles took me two hours. Hard work but loved it.


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## Lovacott (20 Mar 2021)

Tail End Charlie said:


> I went out the other day, the first 17 miles took me two hours. Hard work but loved it.


I doubt that there are more than 10% of the British population who could manage more than ten miles in a day.

That puts you in the top five percent.


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## IanSmithCSE (20 Mar 2021)

Good morning,


philthecat said:


> Thanks. This is the plan. Get fit first on the indoor bike then get in the roads and see where they take me. 👍👍


As others have said the first ride outdoors after training indoors can be quite a shock, I have posted a couple of tables below off a web page that I trust, it is one of mine. 

These are general purpose numbers for a 60 year old who weighs 70kg riding a 10kg bike and are of course debatable up to a point.

If you go for a ride on the road and get a feel for where you current fitness levels put you speed wise, these tables might encourage or depress you in terms of how much little or more you need to train.













Bye

Ian


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## Lovacott (20 Mar 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good morning,
> 
> As others have said the first ride outdoors after training indoors can be quite a shock, I have posted a couple of tables below off a web page that I trust, it is one of mine.



Interesting and true.

A road bike eats up the miles using far much less energy than a Hybrid or MTB.

What has surprised me recently, is how much more effort and energy is needed to propel an MTB or hybrid for the same distance as a half decent road bike.

Pretty staggering really.


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## cyberknight (20 Mar 2021)

As said above you have to be really getting fit to knock out 20 miles in an hour , the fastest i ever did was 24 miles at that average and i was on the rivet all the time .
Good riders can obviously do faster and when you move into time trial bikes that a whole new ball game , Philipo Ganna did a 13 km TT this year at an average of just under 40 mph but its a short distance on a pan flat course


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## Grant Fondo (20 Mar 2021)

A TDF pro can shred the Col du Tourmalet in less than an hour.
I could easily do it in an afternoon, going downhill


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> As others have said the first ride outdoors after training indoors can be quite a shock, I have posted a couple of tables below off a web page that I trust, it is one of mine.
> 
> These are general purpose numbers for a 60 year old who weighs 70kg riding a 10kg bike and are of course debatable up to a point.



Those figures I assume don't include wind + hills!

I did a FTP run today, 20 minutes of smashing it, just under 300watts average, but thanks to been on my 17kg hybrid, some hills to go up, average speed was sub 15mph!! I now know why people ride with power meters, they make you feel better when you end up with a slow average speed


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Those figures I assume don't include wind + hills!
> 
> I did a FTP run today, 20 minutes of smashing it, just under 300watts average, but thanks to been on my 17kg hybrid, some hills to go up, average speed was sub 15mph!! I now know why people ride with power meters, they make you feel better when you end up with a slow average speed
> 
> View attachment 579651



Something not quite right there. Riding at 292 Watts would see you well over 20 mph. Even 200 watts would bring you up to 18-20 mph. 345ft over 5 miles is rolling rather than hilly.


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## DRM (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Something not quite right there. Riding at 292 Watts would see you well over 20 mph. Even 200 watts would bring you up to 18-20 mph. 345ft over 5 miles is rolling rather than hilly.


He's on a heavy hybrid, so would be putting in a big effort, without going very fast


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> He's on a heavy hybrid, so would be putting in a big effort, without going very fast



The weight won’t make that much difference on a gently rolling route like he’s posted.


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## DRM (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The weight won’t make that much difference on a gently rolling route like he’s posted.


But it's the uphill bits and a breeze that kills the speed, the extra weight means more watts, just to go at the same speed on a light drop bar bike


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## Sharky (21 Mar 2021)

philthecat said:


> Need to get a bike first


It might help !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vickster (21 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> He's on a heavy hybrid, so would be putting in a big effort, without going very fast


I thought he had an ebike


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## Dayvo (21 Mar 2021)

PtC - not the slow left-arm spinner!?

Well-inflated tyres, clean cassette and oiled chain, and properly adjusted cone nuts will add a few extra mph without any extra work from you.


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## Once a Wheeler (21 Mar 2021)

Lots of good comments on here. However, apart from the distance, 'Can I do 42.7km in an hour?' is thinking like a runner. Nothing wrong with that, but as you convert from running to cycling, or add cycling to your repertoire, it is a good idea to get in with the bikey brainset. An hour is a magic timespan for cyclists but the fundamental question is 'How far can I go in an hour?' The question of 'Can I do a particular distance in an hour?' revolves around some set-piece timetrial distances where beating the hour is a milestone acheivement but, as will become apparant when you try it, doing a certain distance in an hour takes a completely different mindset from riding for an hour in order to cover the greatest distance possible. Some heroes to emulate:

Fausto Coppi 1942



Roger Rivière, 1957



Eddy Merckx 1972



Graeme Obree 1993



Chris Boardman 1996



…on your bike, and pedal. Have fun.


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## IanSmithCSE (21 Mar 2021)

Good morning,


gzoom said:


> Those figures I assume don't include wind + hills!


That is correct they were assuming a level road and zero wind speed.

I never created numbers for a gradient as this was well outside the scope of the page. 

The wind resistance table for riding at 12mph and 18mph with a full frontal head wind are below












The whole page is at http://www.iansmithcse.co.uk/WLC/Article_Exercise.aspx

Bye

Ian


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

vickster said:


> I thought he had an ebike



It is, but its also the only bike I have a power meter, so though I try and do a 20 minute FTP ride with no support. Basically loads of effort, for not much speed .


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The weight won’t make that much difference on a gently rolling route like he’s posted.



Having ridden that route loads of times on my road bike I have to politely 100% disagree.....on the flat bits it was OK, but on any gradient the extra 10kg compared to the road bike really makes it self felt, not to mention a frameset that flexes if you just look at it the wrong way. 

300watts+ to go under 10mph on a sub 5% average incline.....who says you cannot get fit ridding an eBike (with the motor off) .


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Having ridden that route loads of times on my road bike I have to politely 100% disagree.....on the flat bits it was OK, but on any gradient the extra 10kg compared to the road bike really makes it self felt, not to mention a frameset that flexes if you just look at it the wrong way.
> 
> 300watts+ to go under 10mph on a sub 5% average incline.....who says you cannot get fit ridding an eBike (with the motor off) .
> 
> ...



The power numbers are wrong. There is no way you put out 294w and only hit 17 mph on a for all intents flat road. Something definitely not right. You should hit that speed with about 170-180 watts of power through the cranks, given weight of bike, assuming you weigh about 80kg, and sat upright.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> The power numbers are wrong. There is no way you put out 294w and only hit 17 mph on a for all intents flat road. Something definitely not right.



Why?? Have you seen the chart above. Science says to go at 18mph on a hybrid into a mild 6mph head wind needs 320watts of power. My figures from the ride today wasn't that far off, the headwind was about 5mph.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Why?? Have you seen the chart above. Science says to go at 18mph on a hybrid into a mild 6mph head wind needs 320watts of power. My figures from the ride today wasn't that far off, the headwind was about 5mph.
> 
> View attachment 579680



You weren’t doing 18 mph 😂😂😂 I guess you must have been wearing a parachute to slow you down 😁


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> You weren’t doing 18 mph 😂😂😂 I guess you must have been wearing a parachute to slow you down 😁



No I was doing 17mph on the flat bit, and the power readings were sub 300watts. The science says you need to hit 320 watts on a hybrid to get to 18mph on the flat with a mild headwind. 

So all in all I say there's nothing wrong with the power figures. 

A 17kg hybrid eBike from Halfords just isn't that fast when you are not using its motor .


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> No I was doing 17mph on the flat bit, and the power readings were sub 300watts. The science says you need to hit 320 watts on a hybrid to get to 18mph on the flat with a mild headwind.
> 
> So all in all I say there's nothing wrong with the power figures.
> 
> A 17kg hybrid eBike from Halfords just isn't that fast when you are not using its motor .



Nope wherever you got that screenshot from it massively over estimates the power. You’d have to be tailing a parachute to be going that slow. What power meter are you using?


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Nope wherever you got that screenshot from it massively over estimates the power. You’d have to be tailing a parachute to be going that slow. What power meter are you using?



Take that up with @IanSmithCSE, his tables look pretty accurate to me .

The power meter is built into the crank motor of the bike - Its a Fazua motor, sending data to Wahoo app.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Take that up with @IanSmithCSE, his tables look pretty accurate to me .
> 
> The power meter is built into the crank motor of the bike - Its a Fazua motor, sending data to Wahoo app.



Maybe go get it checked and calibrated. Else ignore the power number.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Maybe go get it checked and calibrated. Else ignore the power number.



So are you saying the tables provided by @IanSmithCSE is wrong? As far as I can tell the power figures reflect what the tables show.

One thing am pretty sure about, the hybrid eBike is alot slower than my road bike for the same effort .


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## vickster (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> So are you saying the tables provided by @IanSmithCSE is wrong? As far as I can tell the power figures reflect what the tables show.
> 
> One thing am pretty sure about, the hybrid eBike is alot slower than my road bike for the same effort .


Turn the motor on


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

vickster said:


> Turn the motor on



You lot love to argue for the sake of it don't you .

The point of riding with the motor off was for a 20 minute FTP test, not much point in doing that if the motor is on .


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## DRM (21 Mar 2021)

Once a Wheeler said:


> Lots of good comments on here. However, apart from the distance, 'Can I do 42.7km in an hour?' is thinking like a runner. Nothing wrong with that, but as you convert from running to cycling, or add cycling to your repertoire, it is a good idea to get in with the bikey brainset. An hour is a magic timespan for cyclists but the fundamental question is 'How far can I go in an hour?' The question of 'Can I do a particular distance in an hour?' revolves around some set-piece timetrial distances where beating the hour is a milestone acheivement but, as will become apparant when you try it, doing a certain distance in an hour takes a completely different mindset from riding for an hour in order to cover the greatest distance possible. Some heroes to emulate:
> 
> Fausto Coppi 1942
> View attachment 579658
> ...


You missed Ollie from GCN off that list  
View: https://youtu.be/25NFiUZTiu4


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> So are you saying the tables provided by @IanSmithCSE is wrong? As far as I can tell the power figures reflect what the tables show.
> 
> One thing am pretty sure about, the hybrid eBike is alot slower than my road bike for the same effort .



Yes.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Yes.
> 
> View attachment 579692



Interesting what kind of is that? 

18mph average with 1500 meters of climbing seems like it would require alot more out put than 200watts?


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Interesting what kind of is that?
> 
> 18mph average with 1500 meters of climbing seems like it would require alot more out put than 200watts?



Clearly not.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Clearly not.



What kind of bike was it on?


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> What kind of bike was it on?



A hybrid with 32mm tyres. Bog standard wheels, nothing special.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> A hybrid with 32mm tyres. Bog standard wheels, nothing special.



Are you sure its not your powermeter that needs calibration? 

Here is another calculator showing you need around 300 watts to maintain 18mph into a mild head wind on a hybrid? That assumes no climbing!


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

This is from a ride a friend who has a very nice Pinarello road bike + power meter. His very quick, got a few local KOMs.

You are almost as quick, on a heavier bike, whilst producing alot less power. Something doesn't add up here.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Are you sure its not your powermeter that needs calibration?
> 
> Here is another calculator showing you need around 300 watts to maintain 18mph into a mild head wind on a hybrid? That assumes no climbing!
> 
> View attachment 579708



Nope a friend on same ride has similar figures. Your calculator is making incorrect assumptions about real world.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> This is from a ride a friend who has a very nice Pinarello road bike + power meter. His very quick, got a few local KOMs.
> 
> You are almost as quick, on a heavier bike, whilst producing alot less power. Something doesn't add up here.
> 
> View attachment 579712



Your friend is clearly the problem. Remember 85% of that is air resistance of rider. He might have nice bike but must be sitting rather upright and / or be wearing flappy clothes. Is he a big fella?


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Your friend is clearly the problem. Remember 85% of that is air resistance of rider. He might have nice bike but must be sitting rather upright and / or be wearing flappy clothes. Is he a big fella?



Nope his average 6ft and what you expect from someone who has a few KOMs.

You are right your data doesn't match mine, nor people I know, or what online calculators predict, so clearly lots of variation in powermeter reading...Good thing power readings are what so many people base their training on .


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Nope his average 6ft and what you expect from someone who has a few KOMs.
> 
> You are right your data doesn't match mine, nor people I know, or what online calculators predict, so clearly lots of variation in powermeter reading...Good thing power readings are what so many people base their training on .



But not compare with others.


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## gzoom (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But not compare with others.



Its interesting to see all this, I do know the readings on the eBike is consistent across rides, so for the purposes of fitness a repeat run in a few months will tell and be representative of fitness levels rather than using average speeds.


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## cyberknight (21 Mar 2021)

Heres my stats from today , gives me about 2.5 watts per kg if its any help


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## IanSmithCSE (21 Mar 2021)

Good afternoon,

Thanks for the feedback @Ming the Merciless on the numbers.

The problem when calculating the numbers for a general statement rather than using live data is that you have to make a very large number of assumptions.

If you allow me to go through the numbers assuming no wind, putting exactly 18.6mph through my calculation comes up 231Watts

Taking the initial value of 215 watts for a hybrid at 18mph and making some changes to the calculation


Change (just the change specified not the total of all changes)New Power RequirementAltering the rolling resistance of the road from asphalt to concrete166 Watts - Down by 49 WattsDecrease the rolling resistance of the tyre by 10%207 Watts - Down by 8 WattsDecrease the rolling resistance of the tyre by 20%199 Watts - Down by 16 WattsDecrease the aero drag for the body position by 10%201 Watts - Down by 14 WattsDecrease the aero drag for the body position by 20%188 Watts - Down by 27 WattsAltering the rolling resistance of the road from asphalt to concrete
Decrease the aero drag by 10%
Decrease the rolling resistance of the tyre by 10%149 Watts - Down by 67 Watts

The rolling resistance of the tyres is affected quite significantly by the road surface, it is clearly unlikely that a real ride would be on as good as surface as concrete but this does indicate the range of possible variations.

A hybrid bike is a very broad term, so it covers a very wide range of tyres including some pretty cheap, nasty and slow ones.

Again wind resistance is something that is impossible to assume and get right for a specific instance, dropping the drag by 10%-20% show very large savings in the power requirement.

So by making some different reasonable assumptions I have reduced the power required by 67 Watts or nearly 30%.

Remember that for the increased power requirement shown in the wind tables there will also be a similar reduced power consumption table for riding with a tail wind.

So I see no problems with a measured 209 Watts at 18.6mph and it is well within my acceptable tolerance for my generalised tables. 

GCN went a bit OTT recently and put one rider on a hybrid and another on a road bike and rode the hybrid faster than the road bike by riding the hybrid in a simulated tribar type position.

Bye

Ian


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## SkipdiverJohn (21 Mar 2021)

Lovacott said:


> I doubt that there are more than 10% of the British population who could manage more than ten miles in a day.
> 
> That puts you in the top five percent.



Most people seem shocked at the thought of riding over 10 miles in a day. My guvnor had a problem in that he needed a vehicle delivered for maintenance, but officially staff are not supposed to give each other lifts at work in case someone infects someone else with the virus.
So I said I'd take it. He said "that's great, you can get an Uber cab back home and claim it back on expenses". I told him I don't use Uber, but I would deliver it on a decent weather day and ride back so long as he gave me the remainder of the afternoon off. "How far it it?", he says. Shortest route is about 16 miles I replied. "you're seriously going to ride 16 miles on a push bike?" he exclaims. When I pointed out I often ride 25 or 30 miles in one hit at the weekend just for fun, he looked totally confused!


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2021)

It’s what comes of living in a sedentary society where people won’t think anything of driving 2 miles for something cause it’s too far to walk / cycle etc.


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## cyberknight (21 Mar 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> It’s what comes of living in a sedentary society where people won’t think anything of driving 2 miles for something cause it’s too far to walk / cycle etc.


My neighbours will drive down to the local corner shop , its less than a 5 min walk even if they only need some milk etc


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## philthecat (21 Mar 2021)

Once a Wheeler said:


> Lots of good comments on here. However, apart from the distance, 'Can I do 42.7km in an hour?' is thinking like a runner. Nothing wrong with that, but as you convert from running to cycling, or add cycling to your repertoire, it is a good idea to get in with the bikey brainset. An hour is a magic timespan for cyclists but the fundamental question is 'How far can I go in an hour?' The question of 'Can I do a particular distance in an hour?' revolves around some set-piece timetrial distances where beating the hour is a milestone acheivement but, as will become apparant when you try it, doing a certain distance in an hour takes a completely different mindset from riding for an hour in order to cover the greatest distance possible. Some heroes to emulate:
> 
> Fausto Coppi 1942
> View attachment 579658
> ...


That’s exactly it “once a wheeler”.


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## rogerzilla (21 Mar 2021)

My old Tacx turbo trainer (a real turbo, fan resistance only) was pretty accurately sized. If I could hold that speed on the turbo, I could do it on a flat road in still summer* conditions.

Trainers with variable resistance need calibrating by the user, really.

*the extra air density between a freezing January morning and a warm July evening knocks 1mph off. And that's ignoring the fact that you'll also be down in power due to cold legs and seasonal drop-off.


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## rivers (22 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Interesting what kind of is that?
> 
> 18mph average with 1500 meters of climbing seems like it would require alot more out put than 200watts?


I went on a ride Saturday- 16 mph average, 1300ft of climbing over 28 miles- average power 147 watts, normalised power 165 watts. My FTP is only 190 watts (which I can reliably hold for an hour). On my TT bike that will see me hold an average speed of 23-24mph. On my road bike 17-18mph. Maybe 19 on a good day.


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## Twilkes (22 Mar 2021)

rivers said:


> I went on a ride Saturday- 16 mph average, 1300ft of climbing over 28 miles- average power 147 watts, normalised power 165 watts. My FTP is only 190 watts (which I can reliably hold for an hour). On my TT bike that will see me hold an average speed of 23-24mph. On my road bike 17-18mph. Maybe 19 on a good day.



1300 feet is very different from 1500 metres, not sure what difference that makes to the calculations but it's significant as it's less than 400 metres climbing.


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## rivers (22 Mar 2021)

Twilkes said:


> 1300 feet is very different from 1500 metres, not sure what difference that makes to the calculations but it's significant as it's less than 400 metres climbing.


Look at the ride lengths- the 1500m of climbing was over 135km (4200 ft of climbing over 84 miles roughly= 50ft climbing per mile). My 1200 feet of climbing was over 28 miles, roughly 46 feet of climbing per mile- there isn't much in it.

But the point it is- FTP alone doesn't indicate speed. There are a lot more factors to consider: bike choice, rider size and weight, tyre choice, clothing choice, how aero or not someone is, wind speed and direction, wheel choice, terrain etc.


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## CXRAndy (22 Mar 2021)

cyberknight said:


> As said above you have to be really getting fit to knock out 20 miles in an hour , the fastest i ever did was 24 miles at that average and i was on the rivet all the time .
> Good riders can obviously do faster and when you move into time trial bikes that a whole new ball game , Philipo Ganna did a 13 km TT this year at an average of just under 40 mph but its a short distance on a pan flat course



My fastest riding was just a few years ago, I did Tour of Cambridge. I averaged >21mph for 80 miles, the first 40 miles were greater than >23mph and the first 20 miles ave over 25mph. Im by no means super fit , I would say then, fair to middling. 

Younger riders can knock out some decent pace. I spotted one of my club riders did his first 100 miles this week, he solo'd 20mph average for the 100 .


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## keithmac (22 Mar 2021)

Lovacott said:


> I doubt that there are more than 10% of the British population who could manage more than ten miles in a day.
> 
> That puts you in the top five percent.



As a kid, me and a few mates would think nothing of doing a 40 miler (20 miles there and 20 back).

My lad would easily do that as well.

If it's right 10% is shocking really!.


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Mar 2021)

I think it’s more likely that no more than 10% would contemplate cycling 10 miles as being perfectly ordinary. Many have a poor relationship with exercise. Just as some have no idea about the price of milk, some have no idea what a reasonable comfortable cycling distance is.


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## houblon (22 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> 42 Km’s on an indoor bike are nothing like the same distance outside, outside I would expect that distance to be done in about 2 hours ish , doing it in an hour will have world tour teams chasing your signature, closely followed by UCI testers wanting blood and urine samples



Am I missing something? 42km in an hour is mediocre in an open (amateur) British time trial. I've beaten that several times and I wasn't that good, though the older I get the better I was.


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## DRM (22 Mar 2021)

houblon said:


> Am I missing something? 42km in an hour is mediocre in an open (amateur) British time trial. I've beaten that several times and I wasn't that good, though the older I get the better I was.


A sub 1 hour 25 mile is a pipe dream for a beginner straight off a spin bike, 1 hr 10 would be good going for an on form amateur rider with all the gear on a TT bike, on a road bike it’d be even harder, we are talking about someone who sounds like he’s using a spin bike right now


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## rogerzilla (22 Mar 2021)

rivers said:


> Look at the ride lengths- the 1500m of climbing was over 135km (4200 ft of climbing over 84 miles roughly= 50ft climbing per mile). My 1200 feet of climbing was over 28 miles, roughly 46 feet of climbing per mile- there isn't much in it.
> 
> But the point it is- FTP alone doesn't indicate speed. There are a lot more factors to consider: bike choice, rider size and weight, tyre choice, clothing choice, how aero or not someone is, wind speed and direction, wheel choice, terrain etc.


Tyres make a vast difference. My mate is 20 years younger, has more power and 8lb less flab than me but, on the flat, he struggles to hang onto my back wheel if I'm on fast tyres and he's on touring tyres. Nothing special, just Vittoria Rubino Pro, which is a decent training tyre.


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## houblon (22 Mar 2021)

philthecat said:


> I have only taken up cycling this year and use an indoor bike currently. Not an expensive one though. I have no idea if these times are any good. I have set myself a target to cycle a marathon (42.17km) in under an hour. Thanks
> View attachment 579376


Anyway. You got a few 'not a chance's and sparked off a debate about the accuracy of power meters, but not a lot of encouragement.

So I say: yes of course you can. It might take more than a year, but get out there and ride with others when you can. Ride with people older and faster than you (I'm assuming you've got youth on your side, most contributors here don't have that unfair advantage) - you might get dropped a few times but you'll get better and better while they get older and slower. Pay attention to what you eat. Get plenty rest between heavy sessions. Give up smoking. Work on your position on the bike. Join a club. Do some evening 10 mile time trials. Go touring in France. Take a holiday in Mallorca in April. Admire your own legs in the mirror. Find a partner who appreciates cyclists' arses. Enjoy beer (or 'sports nutrition' as it's known in this household).

Unless you're in poor health or badly overweight 40km/hr is attainable. And if you are in poor health and overweight, you'll get healthier and lighter the more you ride.

Where do you live?


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## houblon (22 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> A sub 1 hour 25 mile is a pipe dream for a beginner straight off a spin bike, 1 hr 10 would be good going for an on form amateur rider with all the gear on a TT bike, on a road bike it’d be even harder, we are talking about someone who sounds like he’s using a spin bike right now



Sure, it'll take time. A lot of folk here are saying 'not a chance'. They're wrong.


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## PaulSB (23 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> A sub 1 hour 25 mile is a pipe dream for a beginner straight off a spin bike, *1 hr 10 would be good going for an on form amateur rider with all the gear on a TT bike, on a road bike it’d be even harder*, we are talking about someone who sounds like he’s using a spin bike right now


Could I ask about the bit I've highlighted please? Just to be clear I think you're saying an on form amateur would find it hard to ride a 10 mile TT in an hour.

I think a decent amateur would complete a TT10 in less than half the time. I've only ridden three TTs as part of my club handicap championship. I didn't enjoy the experience and did no more.

I consider myself a decent club rider. I simply turned up on my road bike and blitzed it. My times were between 26:30 and 27:10. I've several friends who will hit 25-26 on road bikes on a 10.

My last three rides were 90 miles/3500 feet/15avg, 52 miles/1250 feet/17.1 and 54 miles/2500 feet/15avg.

These were Wednesday, Friday last week and yesterday. Just two friends out for a social ride with no big efforts other than a Top 💯 climb in the 90 miler.

Ten miles in an hour is, in my view, slow for a good amateur. I'm 66. The slowest ride my club offers is expected to average 13mph over a 30 mile ride.


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## T4tomo (23 Mar 2021)

Pretty sure he's saying a 1h10mins 25miles TT... is good going...... 

Clearly 10mph is not very fast at all.


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## PaulSB (23 Mar 2021)

T4tomo said:


> Pretty sure he's saying a 1h10mins 25miles TT... is good going......
> 
> Clearly 10mph is not very fast at all.


Ah, yes you're quite right. I read it several times and got a different message altogether. Ignore me!


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## figbat (23 Mar 2021)

So here’s a philosophical one - if OP is using a spin bike, have they really “taken up cycling”? Not trying to diminish or belittle the effort or intent, but without a bicycle, is one cycling?


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## vickster (23 Mar 2021)

figbat said:


> So here’s a philosophical one - if OP is using a spin bike, have they really “taken up cycling”? Not trying to diminish or belittle the effort or intent, but without a bicycle, is one cycling?


Not in my view, they are exercising on a spin bike. Ditto a turbo trainer is a piece of exercise equipment or training tool


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## houblon (23 Mar 2021)

figbat said:


> So here’s a philosophical one - if OP is using a spin bike, have they really “taken up cycling”? Not trying to diminish or belittle the effort or intent, but without a bicycle, is one cycling?



Where did he say he was on a spin bike? As far as I recall he said it wasn't an expensive bike.

We seem to have scared him off anyway :-(


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## DRM (23 Mar 2021)

PaulSB said:


> Could I ask about the bit I've highlighted please? Just to be clear I think you're saying an on form amateur would find it hard to ride a 10 mile TT in an hour.
> 
> I think a decent amateur would complete a TT10 in less than half the time. I've only ridden three TTs as part of my club handicap championship. I didn't enjoy the experience and did no more.
> 
> ...


No I’m not, I’m saying a 25 mile TT will be a huge effort to go sub 1 hour 10 minutes, ten miles even I could do that in a reasonable time and I’m far from race fit, the OP asked if it’s possible to do 42 km’s In under 1 hour, I say unless they have a huge talent , no, Eddie Merckx did 49.431 km’s In 1 hour, so I stand by what I say


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## DRM (23 Mar 2021)

T4tomo said:


> Pretty sure he's saying a 1h10mins 25miles TT... is good going......
> 
> Clearly 10mph is not very fast at all.


Yep you’ve got it


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## DRM (23 Mar 2021)

houblon said:


> Where did he say he was on a spin bike? As far as I recall he said it wasn't an expensive bike.
> 
> We seem to have scared him off anyway :-(


He said he was on an indoor bike, I read that as an exercise bike


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## DRM (23 Mar 2021)

houblon said:


> Am I missing something? 42km in an hour is mediocre in an open (amateur) British time trial. I've beaten that several times and I wasn't that good, though the older I get the better I was.


You are saying you can ride at 42km/h for one whole hour? And travel for 42 km’s at a Constant effort, you’re better than me


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## PaulSB (23 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> No I’m not, I’m saying a 25 mile TT will be a huge effort to go sub 1 hour 10 minutes, ten miles even I could do that in a reasonable time and I’m far from race fit, the OP asked if it’s possible to do 42 km’s In under 1 hour, I say unless they have a huge talent , no, Eddie Merckx did 49.431 km’s In 1 hour, so I stand by what I say


Yes, I'm sorry I completely misread your original post.


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## houblon (23 Mar 2021)

DRM said:


> You are saying you can ride at 42km/h for one whole hour? And travel for 42 km’s at a Constant effort, you’re better than me


I could ride faster than that when I was young and had a number on my back. Bit past it now, but I was only ever a 3rd cat. Local hero Ken Platts though, he rode 48km in an hour at age 60 a few years back.


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## T4tomo (23 Mar 2021)

This might be a daft question as I've never got into the murky world of TT, do riders go faster or slower in a TT vs an equivalent length track ride - such as a crack at the hour record. I'd assume the track is faster given no wind or inclines, and although one is allowed gears on a TT bike, given the aim is to ride constant speed, a fixed gear is hardly a handicap?


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## gzoom (23 Mar 2021)

houblon said:


> I could ride faster than that when I was young and had a number on my back. Bit past it now, but I was only ever a 3rd cat. Local hero Ken Platts though, he rode 48km in an hour at age 60 a few years back.



Some of you guys must have legs like tree trunks, I just come back from a 30 miles loop on the road bike, could barely get above 16mph average let alone nearly double that!! At one point with a 12mph headwind, and a 5% gradient I was struggling to get over 10mph!


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## DRM (23 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Some of you guys must have legs like tree trunks, I just come back from a 30 miles loop on the road bike, could barely get above 16mph average let alone nearly double that!! At one point with a 12mph headwind, and a 5% gradient I was struggling to get over 10mph!
> 
> View attachment 580086


You and I are at a similar pace, however doing a loop as you know, is reliant on traffic lights, junctions and roundabouts, as well as wind & terrain, so other than being a talented , trained racing snake, 42 KM’s in an hour is not possible, but 30 miles in 2 hours is a good effort in my book


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## houblon (23 Mar 2021)

T4tomo said:


> This might be a daft question as I've never got into the murky world of TT, do riders go faster or slower in a TT vs an equivalent length track ride - such as a crack at the hour record. I'd assume the track is faster given no wind or inclines, and although one is allowed gears on a TT bike, given the aim is to ride constant speed, a fixed gear is hardly a handicap?



Track is definitely faster. A track bike is, in Alexei Sayle's words. "the pinnacle of engineering perfection". There's no need for the crap that slows you down, like brakes and gears. The tyres don't have to deal with water or unpredictable surfaces so can be optimised for going fast in a straight (well, nearly) line, and pumped up to stupid pressure.

I've only spent one morning on the track, on a taster day at Manchester velodrome with a bunch of mountain bikers most of whom had never ridden a fixed wheel. It was pretty daunting entering the centre of the track and looking up at the banking but after not long we all wanted to stay up there. It was like a perpetual downhill on a magic carpet.


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## gbb (31 Mar 2021)

PaulSB said:


> TBH I don't really understand the numbers you've posted.
> 
> I have many friends who achieve an average of 42km/hour regularly on Zwift. They are all very experienced and very good cyclists on the real roads. I doubt anyone with a year's experience would hit this level.
> 
> You said you started this year? No chance in my opinion.


Its brutally honest but I'd agree, no chance unless OP is young, very fit and training properly (with professional help)
As an example philthecat, at 40 to 50 years old I was the fittest I'd ever been, cycling around 6k miles a year. That's over 100 miles a week and I struggled like hell to make 19mph average on solo rides of around 50 miles on the road. I was really working at it, push push push, doing everything I could to up my average. That was a DIY training regime essentially so no doubt I wasnt doing things right, so maybe with proper training and age on your side you would do significantly better than that. There are plenty of fitter cyclists out there than I was at my peak but at the same I was working my nuts off. It's great, I was enjoying it....but be ready for some serious hard work.


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## houblon (1 Apr 2021)

OTE="gbb, post: 6366391, member: 207"]
Its brutally honest but I'd agree, no chance unless OP is young, very fit and training properly (with professional help)
As an example philthecat, at 40 to 50 years old I was the fittest I'd ever been, cycling around 6k miles a year. That's over 100 miles a week and I struggled like hell to make 19mph average on solo rides of around 50 miles on the road. I was really working at it, push push push, doing everything I could to up my average. That was a DIY training regime essentially so no doubt I wasnt doing things right, so maybe with proper training and age on your side you would do significantly better than that. There are plenty of fitter cyclists out there than I was at my peak but at the same I was working my nuts off. It's great, I was enjoying it....but be ready for some serious hard work.
[/QUOTE]

Yes it will take work, and yes it's easier when you're younger. But when I was young and mediocre i was regularly doing that sort of speed and getting beaten by guys who certainly didn't have professional coaches, just a little dedication.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Apr 2021)

houblon said:


> I could ride faster than that when I was young and had a number on my back. Bit past it now, but I was only ever a 3rd cat. Local hero Ken Platts though, he rode 48km in an hour at age 60 a few years back.



“In 2000, Boardman attempted the UCI record on a traditional bike, and rode 49.441 km (30.721 mi), topping Merckx by 10 metres (32.8 ft), an improvement of 0.02%.”

So where did this 60 year old manage this 48km, just 1.5km shy of Chris Boardman‘s hour world record attempt above? Something Chris set when he was 32.


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## IanSmithCSE (1 Apr 2021)

Good afternoon,


Ming the Merciless said:


> “In 2000, Boardman attempted the UCI record on a traditional bike, and rode 49.441 km (30.721 mi), topping Merckx by 10 metres (32.8 ft), an improvement of 0.02%.”
> 
> So where did this 60 year old manage this 48km, just 1.5km shy of Chris Boardman‘s hour world record attempt above? Something Chris set when he was 32.


I just found this link https://www.fitz.cam.ac.uk/news/platts-rides-again for a Dr Ken Platts 49:57 25 mile TT.

I think that this was on the E2/25 course, Newmarket which is a fast course, Alex Dowsett did a 44:29 on another day.

Bye

Ian


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Apr 2021)

IanSmithCSE said:


> Good afternoon,
> 
> I just found this link https://www.fitz.cam.ac.uk/news/platts-rides-again for a Dr Ken Platts 49:57 25 mile TT.
> 
> ...



But where is the extra 10 mins and 8km and our fellow poster claims? After all that’s only 40km.


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## houblon (2 Apr 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> But where is the extra 10 mins and 8km and our fellow poster claims? After all that’s only 40km.


https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/rider-results/379


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2021)

houblon said:


> https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/rider-results/379



Not a single one of which shows 48km in an hour, equating to 29.8 mph over a full hour. He came close in 2012 but had another 11 minutes to ride at same speed to hit the figure you claimed. An extra 20% over the time he’d already ridden.

So close but no cigar. 😀


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## DRM (2 Apr 2021)

There’s one 30 mile (48.203 Km) ride shown, at 1:02.59 which is not under an hour, the 30 milers are all around 55 minutes mark, this is someone who has specifically trained for time trials and is a seriously fast amateur, the majority of TT’s shown are around Cambridgeshire which is notoriously flat, I would also suggest that his times would be a lot worse around the hills of West Yorkshire,


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## DRM (2 Apr 2021)

Dogtrousers said:


> This may be related to the reason why Merckx chose Mexico City over Keighley as the venue for his hour record. Although I hear it was a close run thing.


Merckx should have done it in South Kirkby, he would have gone even faster, he’d have to have done so otherwise someone would have nicked his bike


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2021)




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