# Can you class using an Electric bike as cycling



## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

I work with a couple of people who use these. One of them has recently got a Wisper 905se City.







I picked it up the other day to gauge the weight of it and was surprised even with the battery removed for charging how heavy it was.

Although many of the cycle components are genuine cycle ones, the effort required to move it can be from full on cycling (dragging the weight of the motor and battery) to using it like a moped with just the press of a button to move along at 15mph up hill and down dale.


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## Paulus (16 Mar 2009)

I voted no to is it cycling, but i suppose if you are having problems of one sort or another riding up any kind of hill and you don't want to go down the motorbike/scooter route then these bikes are the next best thing if you want to stay on two wheels. I think I just confused myself and should of voted yes.


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## Over The Hill (16 Mar 2009)

I think no- Cycling is powered by the rider not a motor (be it electric or petrol). This is a bit borderline as it seems it can be used in both ways.

V-N I am interested to know who would actually buy a bike with an electric motor on it? I only know one person - my dad but he is 75 and was not on two wheels until he was about 70.

So who is deciding to commute on an electric bike.

Also are you not tempted to go home the same way as them and overtake them? I think I would be keen to do that.


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

Over The Hill said:


> I think no- Cycling is powered by the rider not a motor (be it electric or petrol). This is a bit borderline as it seems it can be used in both ways.
> 
> V-N I am interested to know who would actually buy a bike with an electric motor on it? I only know one person - my dad but he is 75 and was not on two wheels until he was about 70.
> 
> ...



There are a couple of people who use them. 

One was banned for the second time for drink driving last year and would have to take 2 buses to get to work, and the other has got 9 points on his license (for speeding), and has decided to cycle commute. Being 52 and not very fit, he realised that any moped would involve a license/CBT, and his commute is 11 miles each way with a couple of hills each way.


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## Joe24 (16 Mar 2009)

Someone i know has an electric bike, that looks like a moped, but is electric. He has a very bad shoulder that he got while cycling and fell off badly, so using a normal bicycle is out of the question. Its his ownly transport, except for public, so its given him more independence.
Its still got a crappy low speed, except when you put it in the off road setting


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## tyred (16 Mar 2009)

I would consider it cycling. It allows people who are not physically strong enough for one reason or another to start cycling again. And if seriously unfit people buy an electric bike to commute, who knows, one they feel fit enough to buy a normal bicycle. No matter how you look at it, if someone is travelling by electric bicycle, it's one less car on the road.


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

tyred said:


> I would consider it cycling. It allows people who are not physically strong enough for one reason or another to start cycling again. And if seriously unfit people buy an electric bike to commute, who knows, one they feel fit enough to buy a normal bicycle. No matter how you look at it, if someone is travelling by electric bicycle, it's one less car on the road.



Could the same not be said for moped users ? , the question is not whether they remove a car from the road, but whether they could be considered cyclists given that virtually no physical effort is expended in their use.


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## GilesM (16 Mar 2009)

It can not be considered cycling, as it is a motorised vehicle, but it would be an interesting little project to make a decent one, no reason why it has to be so heavy.


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## grhm (16 Mar 2009)

I'd consider it cycling - but then I'm basing this on someone who coummutes to the building next door with one. It only seems to have a motor that "assists" - he still pedals on a slight incline. I have seen him pootle along on the flat without pedaling.

So I think it cycling for someone who can't manage (or doesn't want) to cycle the whole journey - (perhaps they're less fit/able, perhaps they don't want to arrive too sweaty)


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## tyred (16 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> Could the same not be said for moped users ? , the question is not whether they remove a car from the road, but whether they could be considered cyclists given that virtually no physical effort is expended in their use.



The only type I've seen are pedal assist type which need to be pedalled before the motor helps out. Therefore they are cycling to a certain extent.

What would you consider this as and is the rider a cyclist or not? I consider an electric bike as the modern day equivalent-


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## Keith Oates (16 Mar 2009)

I see nothing wrong with people wanting to use them either for health reasons or because they like the convenience but for me it's not cycling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tyred (16 Mar 2009)

The poll couldn't be more evenly matched at the moment...


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

tyred said:


> The only type I've seen are pedal assist type which need to be pedalled before the motor helps out. Therefore they are cycling to a certain extent.
> 
> What would you consider this as and is the rider a cyclist or not? I consider an electric bike as the modern day equivalent-




If they only work as pedal assist, then I think they are still cycles, but the bikes being used here will offer either full motor drive (sit there and press the button like a moped throttle) or the rider can pedal if they wast to go a bit faster than the motor offers.


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## summerdays (16 Mar 2009)

I voted for cycling ... if I was finding that I was unable to cycle due to hills/ill health etc, then I would consider an electric bike - anything if it gave you that feeling again. Somehow a scooter wouldn't work. There is a bloke near me who rides one and we ended up going the same route for a mile or two - if it gives him independence then why not (he's in his 80's).


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

summerdays said:


> I voted for cycling ... if I was finding that I was unable to cycle due to hills/ill health etc, then I would consider an electric bike - anything if it gave you that feeling again. Somehow a scooter wouldn't work. There is a bloke near me who rides one and we ended up going the same route for a mile or two - if it gives him independence then why not (he's in his 80's).




What also confuses the mix is this. It is a fully electric bike with a similar range. Just as quiet, but styled as a scooter, and not a cycle

I put the question to both riders today, and both fessed up that they didn't consider them to be cycles in the true sense, and their bikes are lookie-likie of a real cycle.

Wouldn't want to pedal that thing very far though.


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## Arch (16 Mar 2009)

If you can powere the thing without pedalling, and you do, most or all of the time, it's not cycling. If it's electric assist, and you do have to pedal, or you choose to only use it as such, then it's cycling...

They are very good for people with a dodgy hip or knee, who might be ok on the level, but struggle with a short sharp gradient, or anything too long, or people who may have days when they feel less well, and some when they feel better (lots of conditions are like that). And they have to be better than that person lugging 3 extra seats and a metal box around every time they go out...


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## dan_bo (16 Mar 2009)

I wish I had one today


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## dav1d (16 Mar 2009)

I saw an electric bike on my local market recently. It was £100 (not those fancy moped style ones though). I considered buying it, but after thinking it through, realised it's not for me. I don't want to start using it up hills, on the way back from rides, etc - where would it stop?


If I don't buy an electric bike, I'll be fitter (and richer if only £100) than if I did. Though I may change my mind one day.


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## Joe (16 Mar 2009)

Over The Hill said:


> Also are you not tempted to go home the same way as them and overtake them? I think I would be keen to do that.


I used to see an electric bike rider on my old commute. No problem dropping him on the flat but boy could he accelerate from standing at the lights!


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## MacB (16 Mar 2009)

I called it cycling but only if it can be pedalled, then it's up to the individual how much they pedal. 

If it came to it abd you couldn't ride anymore, who would go for an alternative like this rather than a car?


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## dellzeqq (16 Mar 2009)

the poll is completely stupid. It only matters to the person on the bike. And 'woud'. FFS


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> the poll is completely stupid. It only matters to the person on the bike. And 'woud'. FFS



Calm down Simon, it was a typo.

The guy who bought the wisper 905 was fairly frank in his expectations of the bike, but admitted that his fitness levels dictated a very heavy reliance on the motor to the point that he didn't turn a pedal some days on a 22 mile commute. He wasn't disappointed with the performance of the bike, but the extra weight meant that it isn't something he could ride any distance without the motor switched on.


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## dellzeqq (16 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> Calm down Simon, it was a typo



You are an idiot. Let's leave it at that.


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## very-near (16 Mar 2009)

dellzeqq said:


> You are an idiot. Let's leave it at that.



Are you having a bad day ?


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## ComedyPilot (16 Mar 2009)

WHO SAID YES??????????

Begone damn you, begone. 

You'll be advocating mobility scooters as a viable transport medium for people who can't be arsed to walk to the shops next!!!

Oh, that already happens.


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## threefingerjoe (17 Mar 2009)

I'm all for those electric assist bikes! I rode one, once, and was really impressed! Not for me, at this time, but I won't rule it out in the future. 

Actually, I think we need TONS of these on the road! Maybe this is the answer to the automobile! Most of the fuel that we use, isn't used to haul people....it's used to power a 3000 lb vehicle! I think it's pure WASTE when the mode of transportation outweighs the thing (person) that you want to transport! And cars take up so much space, whether driving, or parked. 

I'll avoid going off the deep end, here, but, suffice it to say, that I'm ALL FOR getting people out of their cars and onto bikes, electric powered, or not!


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## very-near (17 Mar 2009)

Uncle Mort said:


> Welcome back, Linford!


Cheers Mort


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## very-near (17 Mar 2009)

threefingerjoe said:


> I'm all for those electric assist bikes! I rode one, once, and was really impressed! Not for me, at this time, but I won't rule it out in the future.
> 
> Actually, I think we need TONS of these on the road! Maybe this is the answer to the automobile! Most of the fuel that we use, isn't used to haul people....it's used to power a 3000 lb vehicle! I think it's pure WASTE when the mode of transportation outweighs the thing (person) that you want to transport! And cars take up so much space, whether driving, or parked.
> 
> I'll avoid going off the deep end, here, but, suffice it to say, that I'm ALL FOR getting people out of their cars and onto bikes, electric powered, or not!




Don't get me wrong. I think they are a very good idea for people who have mobility issues, for those who don't have the legs to commute 15 miles each way and don't want to use cars or motorcycles.

They certainly have a purpose, and are only going to grow in numbers as the technology improves.

I feel that they are firmly in between cycling and motorcycling, but could not be regarded as cycling if they can be ridden without any physical effort.


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## Arch (17 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> I feel that they are firmly in between cycling and motorcycling, but *could not be regarded as cycling if they can be ridden without any physical effort*.



A small distinction, but no. They can't be considered cycling if they are never ridden without pedalling. Just because the option is there, doesn't mean people use it all the time. Ok, you've met someone who does that - plenty of people don't. 

I'm with threefingerjoe on this.


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## TheDoctor (17 Mar 2009)

Well, actually, I see a few of these round my way and I don't mind them. They've still got the not-too-fast, looks-kinda-like-a-bike vibe about them. Sooner share a cycle path with an electric bike than a 50cc scooter anyday.


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## threefingerjoe (17 Mar 2009)

very-near said:


> Don't get me wrong. I think they are a very good idea for people who have mobility issues, for those who don't have the legs to commute 15 miles each way and don't want to use cars or motorcycles.
> 
> They certainly have a purpose, and are only going to grow in numbers as the technology improves.
> 
> I feel that they are firmly in between cycling and motorcycling, but could not be regarded as cycling if they can be ridden without any physical effort.



If they could be "ridden without any physical effort", I'd have to agree that it's not cycling. But, these new "Electric Assist" bikes won't do ANYTHING if you don't pedal. They only assist. You MUST PEDAL them.


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## very-near (17 Mar 2009)

threefingerjoe said:


> If they could be "ridden without any physical effort", I'd have to agree that it's not cycling. But, these new "Electric Assist" bikes won't do ANYTHING if you don't pedal. They only assist. You MUST PEDAL them.



The bike my colleague has is the http://www.wisper.kellsoft.net/905se-City-S.phpWisper 905 se City.

This according to him is the cutting edge of the electric bikes and operates either 3 modes of electric assist (according to the amount of effort the rider wants to put in), motor off and full rider effort, or full motor control through a twist grip throttle like a scooter.

This wisper is a £1200 bike, but the electric bike of my other colleague cost him about £350 IIRC and operates in the same way http://www.bikes-electric.co.uk/eclassic.php

They both operate all modes and leave it up to the rider as to how much effort they want to put in. 

Both riders are using the full electric drive more than the electric assist, and only use the assist and pedal if they are running late, or they have been caught out and are running out of battery power.


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## Dave5N (18 Mar 2009)

You need to add a third option to your poll.


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## very-near (18 Mar 2009)

Dave5N said:


> You need to add a third option to your poll.




I'd have a job. It has closed, and wasn't able to change it after a few minutes 

What was the 3rd option ?


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## Scotkiwi (26 Nov 2017)

So cycling is only for those wanting to wear lycra and get hot and sweaty? It is just a way of getting around, seeing a bit more, doing a bit more. Exactly what the penny farthing was invented for. And I bet they wouldn't consider the latest fancy cycles real cycling either.


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## alicat (26 Nov 2017)

Holy thread resurrection!


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## summerdays (26 Nov 2017)

summerdays said:


> I voted for cycling ... if I was finding that I was unable to cycle due to hills/ill health etc, then I would consider an electric bike - anything if it gave you that feeling again. Somehow a scooter wouldn't work. There is a bloke near me who rides one and we ended up going the same route for a mile or two - if it gives him independence then why not (he's in his 80's).


I think the original poll must have disappeared as I voted on this one then started reading and discovered I'd apparently voted back in 2009!!!! Luckily I still voted the same way.

Since then I've tried them, seen them rise in popularity and more than one friend has one. One got hers for health reasons, was a keen cyclist but unable to cycle daily cure to her underlying health conditions, the electric assist has meant that she can vary how much help she needs and has returned to commuting by bike most days. The other friend has a keen cycling husband but she can't keep up. Bought the bike and within a week she did a 20+ mile round trip to visit me by bike which she wouldn't have done in the past.

I still think some of the modified ones are dangerous, and if they are going that fast they shouldn't be on cycle paths. And that some of those who have got on them are going faster than their skills suggest they should be going.


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## raleighnut (26 Nov 2017)

There are 2 here, Maz's Dawes Geneva and my Kentex Trike both fitted (by me) with 250W front wheel kits (Cyclotricity)

Neither have any form of cadence or speed sensor fitted although both are capable of having an 'assist' controller fitted (they cost £50 for the basic one and £100 for the advanced type) There were a few reasons why I chose not to fit the assist.

Cost- Didn't need to purchase the crank mounted sensor array or the handlebar mounted console
Simplicity - Less to go wrong.
Easier to fit - The crank needs to be removed to fit the sensor.
Appearance - The handlebar mounted 'Assist Controller' is fugly
Wiring - With Maz's set-up all the gubbins plug into the motor controller (mounted with the battery in the rack) with separate cables, a problem addressed by my slightly later set up which uses a single 'umbilical' cable that runs to the controller and that the other components plug into at the stem.
Ease of use/range. There are occasions when I don't want to waste battery power and I don't want to have to mess around adjusting the 'assist' level on the handlebar unit, I just don't use the throttle.
Both are configured 'thumb throttle' only and the speed is governed by the motor/speed controller only running up to a certain number of revs (Whether this is due to the motor running to its maximum speed or the 3 phase 'Hall effect' converter in the controller being limited to a maximum frequency I don't know)

Neither could be built legally today but as they were built before the regulations in the UK were changed they're OK and if the regs change again they can both be 'retro-fitted' with the necessary bits, they just plug in to the existing system..

Reliability, something I was worried about but in 4yrs for Maz's bike and just over 3yrs for my Trike I haven't had to touch them.


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## FishFright (26 Nov 2017)

My two pence - Pedal Assist is still cycling but throttle controlled is an electric moped so not.

It is nice to be looking forward to extending the time I'm still physically to get out cycling by a number of years due to electrical assist.


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## kcflyer1957 (26 Nov 2017)

Over The Hill said:


> I think no- Cycling is powered by the rider not a motor (be it electric or petrol). This is a bit borderline as it seems it can be used in both ways.
> 
> V-N I am interested to know who would actually buy a bike with an electric motor on it? I only know one person - my dad but he is 75 and was not on two wheels until he was about 70.
> 
> ...



I am 60 and a former smoker and got back into cycling about 2 years ago. I rode a Specialized Diverge but my average pace was about 12 mph. I wanted to be able to ride with some group rides that averaged 16 mph. Then I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with a heart murmur and a small issue with my heart. I had planned on improving myself to the 16 mph pace but it was going to involve some harder intense workouts. The doctor advised against it.

I looked at (and bought) a Giant Road E. What I liked about it was that you HAD to peddle in order to get any assist. I have found in experimenting that I still exert the same amount of energy as I did on the Diverge - I just go faster. And this is in "Eco" (lowest assist) mode. I have ridden charity rides and had the system off for about 75% of the ride. Despite it's hefty weight, it's an excellent road bike with the system off. I don't commute with it - purely recreational. I live in Kansas and my town is not particularly bicycle friendly. It allows me to get out and enjoy the bike and yes, get a decent workout.


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## PappaRay (27 Nov 2017)

I've had an e-bike for just over a year now and have found it brilliant for getting me out and about the rather hilly area where I live . I'm 71 now and I was struggling a bit to keep up with my younger friends when out for a bimble. I can now do a 30/40 mile run without any problems.
There seems to be a misconception about e-bikes that they're just stripped down electric mopeds! You actually have to pedal with pedal assist, which still takes some considerable effort, particularly when going up a steep hill. If you don't pedal, the battery will not get you very far. While on the flat you have the option of switching off the pedal assist to conserve you battery, and you cycle along like a "proper cyclist". 
I would recommend any cyclist who hasn't ridden an e-bike, to give it a go. You may be pleasantly surprised!


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## summerdays (27 Nov 2017)

My friend I mentioned earlier in the thread, messaged me proudly today to tell me she had done 2000 miles total on her bike.


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## kcflyer1957 (28 Nov 2017)

PappaRay said:


> I've had an e-bike for just over a year now and have found it brilliant for getting me out and about the rather hilly area where I live . I'm 71 now and I was struggling a bit to keep up with my younger friends when out for a bimble. I can now do a 30/40 mile run without any problems.
> There seems to be a misconception about e-bikes that they're just stripped down electric mopeds! You actually have to pedal with pedal assist, which still takes some considerable effort, particularly when going up a steep hill. If you don't pedal, the battery will not get you very far. While on the flat you have the option of switching off the pedal assist to conserve you battery, and you cycle along like a "proper cyclist".
> I would recommend any cyclist who hasn't ridden an e-bike, to give it a go. You may be pleasantly surprised!


I agree 100%...with the caveat of riding a pedal assist e-bike. I work out just as hard on my e-bike as I did on my 'real' bike, I just go a bit faster. At the bike shop here, they told me that "you'll never come out of eco mode unless you want to show off"...they were right. Of course, I am in the US where the limit is 28 mph (45 kph) and yes, in power mode on the Road E, 28 mph about right. Uphill. Kind of a thrill...but when you talk about pedal assist I'd have to agree....don't knock it til you've tried it.


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## PappaRay (30 Nov 2017)

Thanks Kcflyer. I think some cyclist like to think that unless your clad in lycra and ride an expensive carbon framed super bike, that cost a the earth, you're not part of the inner circle.
I on the other hand don't look good in lycra, and ride (using the pedals) my brick of an ebike up and down dale to my hearts content. I've even got a sweat on and had wobbly legs after some of my rides. So I must be exerting some energy, just like a real cyclist.


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## Phil Fouracre (30 Nov 2017)

Oh! For crying out loud! Not another 'I'm a really superior person' post! Who cares what you think about what someone else chooses to ride.


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## summerdays (30 Nov 2017)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Oh! For crying out loud! Not another 'I'm a really superior person' post! Who cares what you think about what someone else chooses to ride.


As you can see above there are plenty of people who don't think that at all.


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## Phil Fouracre (1 Dec 2017)

Not really having a moan Just get a bit fed up with constant regurgitation of unfair stereotypes - it shouldn't be allowed, it's cheating, it's for old/sick people etc etc


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## kcflyer1957 (6 Dec 2017)

Phil Fouracre said:


> Not really having a moan Just get a bit fed up with constant regurgitation of unfair stereotypes - it shouldn't be allowed, it's cheating, it's for old/sick people etc etc


Actually....I ride an e-bike AND I wear lycra. The two are not mutually exclusive.


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## whiteturbo (22 Jan 2018)

Of course its cycling, especially if it doesn't have a throttle, I have a Montague Navigator, a normal bicycle, but with a DIY bafang 250 watt electric motor added, it can be ridden without the battery(hard work though) but at nearly 69 and a little bit overweight it gets me out in the fresh air and i can tell you it doesn't ride itself as it needs you to pedal, and yes i get knackered after a few hours but i am cycling up hills that i could never climb without help, its like having Chris Frome to help you when the going gets tough. I do admit i only ride my ebike in fine weather, but that is an age thing.


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## steveindenmark (22 Jan 2018)

whiteturbo said:


> Of course its cycling, especially if it doesn't have a throttle, .



Mine used to have a throttle and what great fun it was as well.


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## byegad (23 Jan 2018)

It depends. 

Some friends have motorised their recumbent trikes, as they are well past 70 they felt the need for some aid up hills. They only use the electric power on hills and are certainly still cyclists.

A guy used to regularly pass me on a folder style electric bike. He never pedalled, dressed like an old time motorcyclist and carried a guitar in a case over his bike. He's not a cyclist!


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## Jody (23 Jan 2018)

steveindenmark said:


> Mine used to have a throttle and what great fun it was as well.




View: https://youtu.be/HIhfwjWuj-I


9kw E-Bike looks good when its on a throttle  Skip to 11.08 for the full 9kw money shot


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## sight-pin (31 Jan 2018)

Interesting study on Pedelecs http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/norwegian-study-quantifies-exercise-benefits-electric-bikes/


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## ianrauk (31 Jan 2018)

From today's Guardian

*Don't call me a cheat*


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## Tim Hall (31 Jan 2018)

ianrauk said:


> From today's Guardian
> 
> *Don't call me a cheat*





> It’s clean transport, costs nothing and causes no pollution,


Really? Free Electric Bikes? Pollution free electrickery? (not having a pop at you ian, obvs, just raising an eyebrow in the direction of the article)


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## Tim Hall (31 Jan 2018)

[QUOTE 5135609, member: 259"]Weird I got a notification you'd replied to me on this...[/QUOTE]
Well, your avatar has blue in it. @ianrauk's is blue. An easy mistake for the Cyclechat Electronic Brane to make.


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## bikeman84 (1 Feb 2018)

I don't class mine as a bike, I class it as a scooter because it has no pedals.
I only bought it for messing about on locally down the promenade and its a lot of fun for only £200.


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## mustang1 (28 Nov 2018)

Anyone who accuses an e-bike rider as cheating should tell the accuser that a geared bike is also cheating.


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## Rusty Nails (28 Nov 2018)

It's closer to cycling than spin classes.

I heard someone who does not own a bike but regularly goes to spin classes say that she loves cycling.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Nov 2018)

It equivalent to walking but going faster


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## gbb (28 Nov 2018)

They are a difficult, nay almost impossible thing to consider using personally when you have age, fitness and health on your side and everything is working...why would you ? That's what I'd have thought 5 or so years ago. Not that I had any negative thoughts about them, it just wasn't relative to my life and fitness then.
Now, 60, still reasonably fit but a damaged lung, considerable time off the bike because of it and a change in motivation because of that makes an ebike a very attractive proposition.
You also need to break down what kind of ebike we're talking about. Assist or throttle type. Assist you truly are cycling, the pedalec article confirms what I find with mine...my 14 mile commute is certainly not a free ride, you work, but undeniably it's easier...but it's a game changer on how you arrive at work, sweating cobs or ready to go on an ebike...but still with legs that know they've done a few miles. A throttle only bike is not cycling in most people's eyes I suspect.
Again with the pedelecs article, they were surprised at the effort used...no surprise really IIME, if you can ride at 15.5 mph or above, the motor becomes irrelevant. I can reasonably push along at 16mph on a 23 kilo hybrid and at that point, there is no assist. The weight of the bike means you she'd speed faster on inclines etc....

Yes they're easier, but it's still cycling.
I notice this thread was started in 2009 I think....i suspect attitudes have changed a lot in that time.


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## beepbeep (28 Nov 2018)

I have one plus several ''standard'' cycles from MTB'S to lightweight carbon road...and I enjoy all of them ...


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## mustang1 (28 Nov 2018)

If you are driving a car with radar cruise and lane keeping assist, can you class that as driving. 

Ditto pilots with auto pilot, or ship captains, train drivers, and so on .


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## Smudge (29 Nov 2018)

Any ebike where the pedals have to be turned is cycling, just cycling with a little help.
I dont consider throttle only ebikes cycling, neither do i the stupidly powerful ebikes that go way above the 15.5 mph cut off. I consider these electric motorcycles.


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## TheDoctor (29 Nov 2018)

I use mine for a 7 mile commute. It's a smidge faster - 20 minutes on the ebike, rather than 25 on the Ribble.
The saving is not spending 15 mins getting washed and changed when I get to work.


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## I am Spartacus (29 Nov 2018)

Smudge said:


> Any ebike where the pedals have to be turned is cycling, just cycling with a little help.
> I dont consider throttle only ebikes cycling, neither do i the stupidly powerful ebikes that go way above the 15.5 mph cut off. I consider these electric motorcycles.



Yes, as above.
For Gods sake those who say no... how else are you going to get cycling into a means of normalised transport?
It sure isnt at the moment with all musthave helmet, musthave hiviz etc etc etc that puts off the very people you want out of their cars.
Google Cycling in Copenhagen Oh GOOD GOD , they are all in normal clothes... how can this be? sacastic mode off///


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## SkipdiverJohn (29 Nov 2018)

[QUOTE 5455544, member: 9609"]NO - and it has to have a gear stick (pref crash box)[/QUOTE]

Agree completely. If all you have to do is sit there you become a steering wheel attendant, not a driver. Being at the helm of anything with a non-synchromesh gearbox is most definitely real driving. You have to concentrate on what you are doing and get your co-ordination and timing right.
As for e-bikes, the most diplomatic thing you can say is it's cycling Jim, but not as we know it!


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## youngoldbloke (29 Nov 2018)

I apparently voted 'no' - 9 years ago! Little did I know then …… my cycling now has become limited by clogged and clogging arteries in my groin, thighs and calves, 2 slow miles before the pain sets in, even on my 7.5kg carbon Rose. However ..... the Orbea Gain gives me the help I need to be able cycle further and to ride with the club group again - and as said above - above 15.5 mph you can get quite a workout if you want. So as far as I'm concerned I'm still a cyclist


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (29 Nov 2018)

I definitely get a better work out on the ebike, I can ride a lot of the routes I wouldn’t normally take on the defy.
The anti ebike fellows will change there minds in years to come.


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## PK99 (29 Nov 2018)

threefingerjoe said:


> If they could be "ridden without any physical effort", I'd have to agree that it's not cycling. But, these new "Electric Assist" bikes won't do ANYTHING if you don't pedal. They only assist. You MUST PEDAL them.



Apart from the many I see that have been frigged to go at speed without pedalling


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## Smudge (29 Nov 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> I apparently voted 'no' - 9 years ago! Little did I know then …… my cycling now has become limited by clogged and clogging arteries in my groin, thighs and calves, 2 slow miles before the pain sets in, even on my 7.5kg carbon Rose. However ..... the Orbea Gain gives me the help I need to be able cycle further and to ride with the club group again - and as said above - above 15.5 mph you can get quite a workout if you want. So as far as I'm concerned I'm still a cyclist



Yes, its amazing how you get more of an understanding of something when you need it yourself.
10/15 years ago, i probably wouldn't have 'got' ebikes at all.


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## Turdus philomelos (30 Nov 2018)

EMBN on the 28th November, Will e-bikes replace mtbs?

Yes the article leans towards mountain biking however just remember, that's where disc brakes crossed from. 

Good channel to watch even if your not into mountain bikes.


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## tommaguzzi (2 Dec 2018)

i am perfectly able club standard rider who uses an ebike almost daily.
originaly i converted my BSO pub bike as an E.commuter so i would not be the zelot who cycles to work only to arrive hot and sweaty after the 12% climb at the end of my regular journey. Over time it has become my main form of transport and now i use it for most local shopping and errand trips that i used to use the car for.
in some respects i dont consider using it as cycling and i dont count any of the 2000 miles i have done on it as cycling miles because the motor provides enough help to go anywhere without any consideration of weight carried or hills to be ridden up.
however apart from the lack of physical effort i still have to endure all the other cycling downsides (traffic, abuse, cold rain ect) while i am out on it.

so i just dont know.


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## Mike_P (16 Dec 2018)

TheDoctor said:


> I use mine for a 7 mile commute. It's a smidge faster - 20 minutes on the ebike, rather than 25 on the Ribble.
> The saving is not spending 15 mins getting washed and changed when I get to work.


That's the reason I have just ordered an ebike conversion for my hybrid - its usual use is a >15 min journey to work which is stupidly U shaped - pointless attempting to cycle in warm/hot weather as the time taken for the journey plus necessary shower / change of kit is longer than the walking time


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## youngoldbloke (17 Dec 2018)

Mike_P said:


> That's the reason I have just ordered an ebike conversion for my hybrid - its usual use is a >15 min journey to work which is stupidly U shaped - pointless attempting to cycle in warm/hot weather as the time taken for the journey plus necessary shower / change of kit is longer than the walking time


Why not just walk then?


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## NickWi (17 Dec 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Why not just walk then?


I agree and I'm always a bit confused why people need to shower when they get to work if the ride is thier commute. When I used to walk to work, I walked. I didn't run, jog or put on specialist clothes. Later when I cycled to work, I just rode at a steady pace, same clothes (complete with totally uncool but very practilce trouser clips). Okay, if you're using your commute as a training ride, that's different and that's a choice you make, but if you're not, why ride so hard as to get so hot & sweaty that you need a shower?

Going back to the orginal question (and remember this tread started in 2009 when Ebikes were a very different thing), I go along on the power assisted theory (as in Orbea Gain and the like) as a definate yes. Ebikes that are so heavy you can't use them without the power assist as a propbably yes, (as long as the ride has to put some assistance in), but throttle control, a definate no. To me a twistgrip or similar makes it a moped. 

*Remember how quickly we went from this:-*






*To this:*


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## glasgowcyclist (17 Dec 2018)

I can smell that FS1E!


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## Mike_P (17 Dec 2018)

NickWi said:


> why ride so hard as to get so hot & sweaty that you need a shower?


More gradient issues that riding hard; the office has moved from bottom of a hill to top of a hill which means whereas after the steep section there was a nice shallow down hill run with time to cool down there is now a continuous climb nearly all the way to the office. Its not helped by the appalling road surface on one section which means you need to drop down a gear on the climb just because of the ridges.



youngoldbloke said:


> Why not just walk then?


Because the hybrid can cart a lot more than can easily be carried walking any distance - for some reason that's beyond me, other than probably being cheap, the work laptop is exceptionally heavy and no one walks very far with one.


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## youngoldbloke (17 Dec 2018)

Mike_P said:


> More gradient issues that riding hard; the office has moved from bottom of a hill to top of a hill which means whereas after the steep section there was a nice shallow down hill run with time to cool down there is now a continuous climb nearly all the way to the office. Its not helped by the appalling road surface on one section which means you need to drop down a gear on the climb just because of the ridges.
> 
> 
> Because the hybrid can cart a lot more than can easily be carried walking any distance - for some reason that's beyond me, other than probably being cheap, the work laptop is exceptionally heavy and no one walks very far with one.


- fair enough


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## Ananda (28 Dec 2018)

The answer to the original question is the same with the answer to the question "Can you class cycling on a downhill slope as cycling?"
And the answer is yes.

On the other hand, on the question "Can a stress free non sweating exercise be considered real exercise?", the answer is no.

So, in other words, you can cycle with or without exercise and that has nothing to do with whether your bike has a battery or not.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Dec 2018)

I found out at the family Christmas dinner that my sister has an ebike. My brother took the piss out of her. I then asked how much exercise was he getting these days, answer none. (Tellingly) My sister uses it to keep up with her husband when they cycle together. She has a standard bike when with her female friends. Seems perfectly reasonable and means she gets to enjoy rides with her husband where otherwise she would have stayed at home.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I found out at the family Christmas dinner that my sister has an ebike. My brother took the piss out of her. I then asked how much exercise was he getting these days, answer none. (Tellingly) My sister uses it to keep up with her husband when they cycle together. She has a standard bike when with her female friends. Seems perfectly reasonable and means she gets to enjoy rides with her husband where otherwise she would have stayed at home.


So many non riding folk take the Mickey out of cycling and can't even muster the energy to cycle or walk a few miles without nearly having a cardiac arrest.


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## Milzy (30 Dec 2018)

I’ve got a pedal & pop, it’s still cycling.


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## OnTheRopes (31 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> I found out at the family Christmas dinner that my sister has an ebike. My brother took the piss out of her. I then asked how much exercise was he getting these days, answer none. (Tellingly) My sister uses it to keep up with her husband when they cycle together. She has a standard bike when with her female friends. Seems perfectly reasonable and means she gets to enjoy rides with her husband where otherwise she would have stayed at home.


This I think is the main point so far as being a 'real' cyclist is concerned. The first time I saw one was on a chain gang, the bike had been hacked so as to allow it to assist up to 25mph or so, the rider, a female was clearly a skilled cyclist and when I later enquired she had recently had a baby and had a lot of time off the bike but this allowed her to ride with er husband and still train on the chain gang. 
I think it needs to be remembered that riding an e bike is not without effort and can be as hard as riding a normal bike if you choose it to be, it merely allows you to go faster for that effort up to a point,


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## youngoldbloke (31 Dec 2018)

Over the last couple of years I had to give up riding with the club leisure group, although I still organise the ride calendar, routes and so on - I became a sort of virtual rider. Buying my Orbea Gain has enabled me to ride with the group again, and get a good cardio workout - something I was missing out on as walking and other activities have become painful and restricted. You can use as much or as little assistance as you need - or none at all, and it has to be emphasised that at over 15mph (on a legal ebike) you are under your own power. After I ride now I feel much as I did after a ride when fit - I know I've had a bit of a workout. The bike is giving me just enough help to be able to do it.


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## keithmac (31 Dec 2018)

This is my ebike, use it to cycle to work and back.

Have used "normal" bikes for 30 years so fancied a change. My MTB needed a lot of work so decided to treat myself to a new commuter.

It's practically maintenance free, Gates Carbon Drive so no messing about with chains (do that as my job so prefer not to do it in my spare time!). 

Had it over 2 years now and apart from brake pads and charging battery it's not needed a thing doing to it.

Nice and simple, it's electric assist so if you don't pedal you don't go!. 

To be honest motor gives me a push from the lights and up the hills (single speed), doesn't kick in on the flat because I'm already over assistance speed most of the time.

Best thing I've bought in years!.

Might buy another "normal" bike for when helping out with Scout outings etc but for my work commute this is perfect.

Could have easily bought a motorbike to do the job but prefer "cycling" if I'm allowed to call it that..


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## steveindenmark (8 Jan 2019)

I dont know what it is like in the UK. But in Denmark I would think that about a third of the bikes I see in towns are electric bikes. Not just for the aged and infirm but for everyone. Whichever way you look at it. It gets people out of the house and into the fresh air and that is not a bad thing.


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## ianrauk (8 Jan 2019)

steveindenmark said:


> I dont know what it is like in the UK. But in Denmark I would think that about a third of the bikes I see in towns are electric bikes. Not just for the aged and infirm but for everyone. Whichever way you look at it. It gets people out of the house and into the fresh air and that is not a bad thing.




They are few and far between. On my daily commute I see one or tow every now and then. But am starting to see more.


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## johnbot1 (16 Feb 2019)

I still consider my self a cyclist (78).The (Law April 2015) Pedal Assisted bikes have to have a max speed of no more than 15.5mph with a 250 w motor anything above this ie: going down hill as to be without motor.


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## Mike_P (17 Feb 2019)

johnbot1 said:


> I still consider my self a cyclist (78).The (Law April 2015) Pedal Assisted bikes have to have a max speed of no more than 15.5mph with a 250 w motor anything above this ie: going down hill as to be without motor.


I find the motor acts as a useful boost and quickly the bike is going faster than the cut off speed so the time I spend actually being assisted is limited largely to initial accelerations and upgrades . With the extra weight once upto speed the bike has a fair momentum meaning higher unassisted speeds are maintained easier.


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## Tenkaykev (18 Feb 2019)

From my observations walking up the local trailway cycleway ( route 25 ) electric bikes are becoming ever more popular.
I often see large groups out for a jaunt, they are often a mix of bike types including electric.
I've noticed that it is really easy to spot someone on an electric bike, even in the far distance. There is a certain smoothness and regularity to the pedalling action coupled with a more upright posture.


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## Phaeton (18 Feb 2019)

Funny you should say that, we were coming home yesterday & just as we approached the brow of a hill a e-bike & of course the rider came over the brow, his steady stroking gave away the fact it was an e-bike. Normally we see the same guy pushing his bike up the hill, looks like he's treat himself.


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## youngoldbloke (19 Feb 2019)

Tenkaykev said:


> From my observations walking up the local trailway cycleway ( route 25 ) electric bikes are becoming ever more popular.
> I often see large groups out for a jaunt, they are often a mix of bike types including electric.
> I've noticed that it is really easy to spot someone on an electric bike, even in the far distance. *There is a certain smoothness and regularity to the pedalling action coupled with a more upright posture.*


Depends on the bike - my eroad is set up to be exactly the same fit as my conventional bikes, so my position is very much the same.


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## Scaleyback (23 Feb 2019)

Of course you can "*class using an Electric bike as cycling"*

It is far too easy to generalise and class people on 'pedal assisted bikes' as "lazy/idol/fat/cheats" etc etc and as with all things
you are going to find some subjects who fit this description. But never forget these are '*pedal assisted bikes*' and by their very nature and indeed their
description they need human input. Now in my eyes no exercise is wasted exercise so many of those people on pedal assisted bikes would not be
cycling at all if the only choice they had was a normal bike. Good for them I say, there is room for everyone. If your KOM best time on Strava is likely
to be eclipsed and your thinking it may be by someone on a 'e' bike then tough. Strava is open to all sorts of abuse so compete against your own PR's
and do not worry about what other riders are doing.


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## youngoldbloke (27 Feb 2019)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OggyIWJyHmk

Conclusion? "You can't cheat at having fun"


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## johnbot1 (19 Mar 2019)

I decided to buy my ebike when my knees started to play up, at 77 I’d thought of packing my cycling days up altogether but then I decided to sell my trusty 20 year old Raleigh and put the money towards the only ebike I could afford a Viking Freedom Power assist sub £1000 ebike, I bought a spare battery and pack it into my rear pannier and regularly do 40 - 50 miles with a change of battery half way through my ride, I admit my ebike is heavy with my weight and spare battery but I enjoy just riding steadily getting the exercise I need with the power assist pedalling I enjoy the countryside arriving at any random pub about hallway through my day to enjoy a pint and a packet of crisps no reason why I shouldn’t keep on until I’m well into my 80s, I’ve had my ebike since June 2018 and cycled about 1500 miles and only run out of battery power once about 3 miles from home but managed my heavy ebike with no problems, so my thoughts are if it helps you to still get out and about buy a Power Assist ebike and keep pedalling.


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## ericmark (20 Mar 2019)

As a lad I had a moped, and you could not have cycled that far as far too low geared, a Honda P50 the pedals were used to start it and for steep hills only, and the 80 miles I would ride Shotton to Tywyn I could not consider doing on a push bike and work when I had arrived.

The wife's electric bike is very different, one it is slower the gears mean 18 MPH is about the fastest you can petal it, although free wheel down hill had 31 MPH, and two you have to pedal it can not be used any other way, and with assist off it is still usable. 

So typical trip Shotton to Bryn-y-baal I would do on a normal bike in one hour 20 minutes, most of the time 4 MPH as up hill, and on arrival I am good for nothing, electric same route 45 minutes, and I can mow lawn when I arrive, the reverse journey same time both bikes and around same energy used.

Now Shotton to Chester and back, on the flat, very little in it between electric and standard unless a head wind, and in the main the electric does not assist as over cut off speed. I note the battery hardly is discharged after that route, but to Bryn-y-baal I have used a 1/4 of the battery, for just 7 miles.

At 250 watt on the Wirral cycle tracks I am not far behind my wife, and up the hills only doing 6 to 8 MPH not charging up at 15.5 MPH, it still needs some effort, but means I am going fast enough to balance. And I do when I have tried it switch off the assist for flat and down hill sections. I am aware the battery is 400 Wh and once flat that's it.


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## Sheffield_Tiger (22 Mar 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> f your KOM best time on Strava is likely
> to be eclipsed and your thinking it may be by someone on a 'e' bike then tough.



And of course if your KOM is beaten by someone doing 15.2MPH on level or slightly inclined ground then it isn't REALLY a KOM


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## TheDoctor (22 Mar 2019)

I'm restricting jobs I apply for to be within commuting range on the Bike of Sparks 
Which effectively means Hitchin, Letchworth or Baldock, or anywhere else that's about 9 miles from DoctorTowers.
I'm perfectly capable of cycling that far, but I need to cycle that far and not have to get changed / washed on arrival.


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