# DIY workshop dust collector... I'm gonna try to make one!



## MontyVeda (5 Mar 2021)

Maybe some of our woodworkers already have (there's countless YT videos)... but for those who are interested, this is the idea:







Basically a big bucket between the power tool and the vacuum to collect the dust, so only a miniscule amount of dust and woodchip ends up in the vac itself, keeping its filters (and motor) cleaner for longer.

I've watched a few tutorials, but this is my main inspiration because it looks really simple (and appears to work)...


I picked up about £5 worth of random waste pipe connecters from Wickes, a fermenting bucket from Wilko (£10), plus one of several buckets I had laying around... and removed anything that looked useful from a couple of old vacuum cleaners in my Mum's garage (and stole some big hose connectors she'll never use).






I'll probably have a few parts left over 





EDIT... a question for y'all... will it be significantly more efficient if I keep the length of the hoses to a minimum?


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## glasgowcyclist (5 Mar 2021)

If you keep putting it off and never get round to building it, it’ll gather dust all by itself anyway!


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## slowmotion (5 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Maybe some of our woodworkers already have (there's countless YT videos)... but for those who are interested, this is the idea:
> 
> View attachment 577177
> 
> ...



You are James Dyson and ICMFP.


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## MontyVeda (5 Mar 2021)

glasgowcyclist said:


> If you keep putting it off and never get round to building it, it’ll gather dust all by itself anyway!


this is basically procrastination for building a bass guitar... i can't cut the body until _blah blah blah_

first i needed a specific router bit that I can't seem to get until April 

then i splashed out on a sanding machine which will be perfect for sanding the shaped body...




...but it's going to make a lot of dust, so I'm not going to be using that until I've got something to collect the dust.


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## MontyVeda (5 Mar 2021)

slowmotion said:


> You are James Dyson and ICMFP.


does that mean i have to move production overseas to save money


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## Drago (5 Mar 2021)

I recently sold my vacuum cleaner. It was only collecting dust.


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## Milkfloat (5 Mar 2021)

It’s not much of a help, but I just use a Henry without a bag and suck it up directly, I have not managed to break it yet.


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## slowmotion (6 Mar 2021)

Bill Pentz is/was the renowned expert on woodworking cyclones. It's generally agreed that coarser chips and dust from planers, thicknessers and power saws get trapped well, but the fine stuff from sanders ends up in the filter anyway. This is worth a read....

https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/faqs.php


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## Tripster (6 Mar 2021)

Alternatively, Promenade Music do a good selection of Bass Guitars without the mess and fuss. Hoover not required


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## MontyVeda (6 Mar 2021)

Tripster said:


> Alternatively, Promenade Music do a good selection of Bass Guitars without the mess and fuss. Hoover not required


like most music shops, Promenade Music have a great selection of right handed bass guitars... and like most music shops, they have a very limited selection of left handed guitars


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## MontyVeda (6 Mar 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> It’s not much of a help, but I just use a Henry without a bag and suck it up directly, I have not managed to break it yet.


This is hopefully going to be a lot cheaper than a Henry... £15 so far, plus a bit of time


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## Randomnerd (6 Mar 2021)

Hardwood dust is toxic. Your diy solution won’t filter out any toxic dust. If you have to make your own guitar....Do the work in an open sided space, and not in a closed garage. Wear a tight fitting CE marked passive flow respirator mask minimum and have a HEPA filter vacuum running, attached.


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## randynewmanscat (6 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Maybe some of our woodworkers already have (there's countless YT videos)... but for those who are interested, this is the idea:
> 
> View attachment 577177
> 
> ...



I use one of those to vac the ash out of my fire. Very little if any ends up in the cleaner, smaller than the one you are building but same. 
They sell them in the brico (b&q) here, people don't like fouling their household vacs up with ash.


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## MontyVeda (6 Mar 2021)

Randomnerd said:


> Hardwood dust is toxic. Your diy solution won’t filter out any toxic dust. If you have to make your own guitar....Do the work in an open sided space, and not in a closed garage. Wear a tight fitting CE marked passive flow respirator mask minimum and have a HEPA filter vacuum running, attached.


I get what you're saying, but there's a big difference between a DIYer doing the occasional job and someone who works in a dust filled environment day in day out for years on end... I've got the mask, I've got the vac, I think I'll be OK


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## Teamfixed (6 Mar 2021)

Without wishing to repeat what others have rightly said, this is my experience... While it is true that some hardwoods are irritants/toxic for example a splinter of teak _can _cause blood poisioning. It is actually down to particle size. Hardwood dust is much finer than say pine dust. If you work with mdf the risk is both the dust but also if it is sanded and heat is produced you get fumes from the urea formaldehyde adhesive used to manufacture it. But as you say all of this is also down to exposure time. A proper dust mask/respirator is plenty. Extractors have different levels of filtration according to particle size. Myself, I use a small chip extractor but that as the name suggests is only good for chips from say a planer. If I'm doing any nasty dust stuff I use a good mask and try to ventilate as well.


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## newts (6 Mar 2021)

Don't underestimate lung damage from short term usage, fine dust is the enemy & any filters in the vacuum will need changing as regularly as if you were using bags (as part of the bag or separate filter).
Cyclone is very good for collecting the voluminous waste from machining. Planing & sawing tends to be larger particles, sanding produces mainly very fine hazrdous dust which is also very flammable.


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## MontyVeda (6 Mar 2021)

newts said:


> Don't underestimate lung damage from short term usage, fine dust is the enemy & any filters in the vacuum will need changing as regularly as if you were using bags (as part of the bag or separate filter).
> Cyclone is very good for collecting the voluminous waste from machining. Planing & sawing tends to be larger particles, sanding produces mainly very fine hazrdous dust which is also very flammable.


which is why most advise a belt & braces approach, vacuum the dust away and wear a good dust mask


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## newts (6 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> which is why most advise a belt & braces approach, vacuum the dust away and wear a good dust mask


Indeed, a mask is important as many vacuum/extractors exhaust through alot of fine dust due to blocked/inadequate filtration. 
This mask is very comfortable to wear for longer periods. 
https://www.screwfix.com/p/jsp-force-8-mask-respirator-with-press-to-check-filters-p3/1863f


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## MontyVeda (9 Mar 2021)

newts said:


> Indeed, a mask is important as many vacuum/extractors exhaust through alot of fine dust due to blocked/inadequate filtration.
> This mask is very comfortable to wear for longer periods.
> https://www.screwfix.com/p/jsp-force-8-mask-respirator-with-press-to-check-filters-p3/1863f


I went for the Elipse one... same price range and plenty of good reviews to back it up. I'm yet to use it for a prolonged period but it fits my chin and seals well. If it doesn't suit my needs in the long term, i'll give that one a try. Thanks 

There's also a wide range of HEPA filters which I'll have a look at fitting to the outlet of the dust collector. Of course not all are created equal but a bit of trial and error...


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## Electric_Andy (9 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> EDIT... a question for y'all... will it be significantly more efficient if I keep the length of the hoses to a minimum?


 As I understand it, longer pipe must be thinner to avoid significant suction loss. Here is an equation, I don't really understand it


"Delta_p = 27.8 * l * q1.75 / d4.75

Where delta_p is the pressure difference or vacuum loss you are looking for in kPa

l is the pipe length in metres

q is the volume flow in the pipe, in litres of free air per minute

d is the internal diameter of the pipe in mm.

Change the units and you change the 27.8 multiplier."


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## newts (9 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I went for the Elipse one... same price range and plenty of good reviews to back it up. I'm yet to use it for a prolonged period but it fits my chin and seals well. If it doesn't suit my needs in the long term, i'll give that one a try. Thanks
> 
> There's also a wide range of HEPA filters which I'll have a look at fitting to the outlet of the dust collector. Of course not all are created equal but a bit of trial and error...


We only have one set of lungs & not easily replaceable. I spent much of my 20's in joinery workshops/ building sites with inadquate dust collection. 
My lung capacity is reduced as a direct result, that's my excuse for being a very poor climber on the bike. 
An M class extractor is a requirement in any commercial enviroment, but i still see brick & wood dust being spewed everywhere when i'm visiting building sites as part of the current day job


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## MontyVeda (9 Mar 2021)

Electric_Andy said:


> As I understand it, longer pipe must be thinner to avoid significant suction loss. Here is an equation, I don't really understand it
> 
> 
> "Delta_p = 27.8 * l * q1.75 / d4.75
> ...


Thanks for that.

with so many bits of vacuum hose to play with, I can lengthen them as needed... so what I've got is the vacuum parked next to the dust collector and just enough hose to connect the two (26")... and with the dust collector parked close to the bench with the sanding machine on, just enough hose to reach it's vacuum outlet (20"). Adding on the extra bits will give me up to 8 foot so plenty when using the planer and router too.

I'll post some photos in a day or two.

I don't understand the equation either


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## MontyVeda (10 Mar 2021)

Not finished it yet but lots of progress.

to recap, I gathered together a load of bits and bobs from which i'd concoct a workshop dust collector:







The beige bucket is where all the action happens which means it needs a hole (dear Liza)






or three...






I had a blond moment when marking out the inlet. The pipe going through the hole should point slightly down, but i made it point up 

I bodged that later after spending most of the day trying to find the bits i needed to make a pressure release valve.






Starting at the top;

a bit of drilled dowel glued to a washer with an M4 grommet in it.
a big rubber washer
a spring from my old washing machine's dampening block
a bit of a waste pipe fitting
the wheel from a broken pizza cutter
two tap washers
the screw from a bike light handlebar mount
a bit of a broken one-cup caffetiere
I'm terrible for not throwing stuff away, and in the case of this valve, I'm glad I don't because it all fits together so well.






The rubber washer will be glued in the underside of the hole, and the white bit of pipe fitting glued to the top of it.






The spring holds the pizza cutter against the washer, keeping the hole shut. If the inlet gets blocked, air pressure should (will) open the valve to stop the big bucket from collapsing, and the spring shuts it again. The screw from the bar mount means I can adjust the pressure on the spring.

Bodging the inlet pipe...






...and ready for assembly.






I'm using sikaflex elastic sealant to fill the gaps around the inlet, which i think should be ideal. The outlet (top) will just be bolted in place and the valve holds itself together.

The sealant around the inlet pipe is going to be thick so I'm building it up a bit at a time, and once all that's done, the bucket needs gluing to the lid of big brewers bucket (sikaflex again)... and when that's cured, I'll cut out the middle of said lid and see if it works.

🤞


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## slowmotion (10 Mar 2021)

Looks good. You ought to check that Sikaflex has good adhesion to the type of plastics of your inlet pipe and the bucket. Some plastics, eg polyethylene, are notoriously tricky. If possible, I'd try and reinforce that junction with some kind of extra mechanical support and not just rely on the mastic.


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## MontyVeda (10 Mar 2021)

the adhesion looks OK so far... but time will tell.


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## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Looks good. *You ought to check* that Sikaflex has good adhesion to the type of plastics of your inlet pipe and the bucket. Some plastics, eg polyethylene, are notoriously tricky. If possible, I'd try and reinforce that junction with some kind of extra mechanical support and not just rely on the mastic.


Thank you for this. 

The sikaflex is sticking to the inlet pipe and beige bucket, but it's not bonding to the lid of the brewers bucket. I wouldn't have checked with a blob on the lid if you hadn't advised me. 

Currently investigating a plan B, C and D 🕵️‍♂️


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## slowmotion (12 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> Thank you for this.
> 
> The sikaflex is sticking to the inlet pipe and beige bucket, but it's not bonding to the lid of the brewers bucket. I wouldn't have checked with a blob on the lid if you hadn't advised me.
> 
> Currently investigating a plan B, C and D 🕵️‍♂️


Plans B, C and D are what make this stuff fun!


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## newts (12 Mar 2021)

Hot glue gun might work?


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## MontyVeda (12 Mar 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Plans B, C and D are what make this stuff fun!


Absolutely!

Plan B... a bead of gripfill (non-flexible) on the lid, and seeing if the flexible* sikaflex will stick to that.
Plan C... replace the plastic lid with a wooden one and use that as the interface between the two buckets
I haven't thought of plan D yet.


newts said:


> Hot glue gun might work?


It might but haven't got one anymore and didn't get on well with hot glue when i did have one.

* the lid is very flimsy but the beige bucket is rigid, so I doubt a rigid bond wouldn't last very long when the lid is repeatedly removed.


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## Poacher (12 Mar 2021)

Looks like you're sorted, @MontyVeda, and job's a good 'un, but if anyone else wants a dust extractor, act fast , 'cos this one comes up tomorrow at a local auction. If need be, I can store it for future collection.
Arthur Johnson & Son | Machinery & General Sale | Lot 2530


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## Cuchilo (22 Mar 2021)

I made a cyclone a few years ago . If you use a plastic bin as your collection container it can buckle under the suction so try and get a strong one .


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## T4tomo (22 Mar 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> It’s not much of a help, but I just use a Henry without a bag and suck it up directly, I have not managed to break it yet.


exactly this, just use a Henry, its what most builders/ joiners use, for the simple fact that they are cheap-ish and very robust.


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## MontyVeda (22 Mar 2021)

Cuchilo said:


> I made a cyclone a few years ago . If you use a plastic bin as your collection container* it can buckle under the suction* so try and get a strong one .


That's why i put a valve on it...


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## MontyVeda (22 Mar 2021)

T4tomo said:


> exactly this, just use a Henry, its what most builders/ joiners use, for the simple fact that they are cheap-ish and very robust.


I think you'll find most joinery shops have a slightly more advanced dust collection system than a Henry... for the simple fact that dust is really unhealthy and there's a few H&S guidelines to adhere to.


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## T4tomo (22 Mar 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> I think you'll find most joinery shops have a slightly more advanced dust collection system than a Henry... for the simple fact that dust is really unhealthy and there's a few H&S guidelines to adhere to.


let me clarify, I meant trades people working in your home, not the local sawmill, which I agree will and should have a better dust extraction.


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## MontyVeda (24 Apr 2021)

It's been a while... too much work and sitting on my backside often gets in the way of a good project

Plan A failed, so did plan B and plan C meant making a wooden lid to act as an interface between the little bucket and the big bucket.

I concocted a circle cutting jig for the router which worked perfectly...




Marking out the rebate that the little bucket will sit in, and the hole that will be cut out.

On the other side is a rebate that will be filled with the rubbery adhesive to give it a good seal on the rim of the big bucket.





Holes drilled for the clamps to secure the two halves together...





Still need to cut the rebate and hole for the little bucket... but...

I just could not get the white plastic collar that holds the valve in position to stick. 




Glue initially worked but after a half decent knock, it broke free. Glued it again and again with various adhesives, each failed the 'knock test' until I tried some double sided tape and that kept the sodding thing in place .

To keep as much dust as possible out of the vacuum itself, I bought some cheap HEPA filters for a handheld vac (£3 each) and made a housing out of various waste pipe fittings, a couple of hose thingies, a bit of a wire basket and some very fine wire mesh (£7 for an A4 sheet).





it's completely sealed so the only way dust can get out of the bucket is through that fine mesh.

Filter and valve in situ on the inside of the little bucket...





Little bucket glued to the wooden lid, clamps attached and a lick of paint...





and the finished thingy...




Doesn't look so bad for around £25.

Now all I need to do is tidy the kitchen to make some space, and make some dust.

I'm confident it'll work but the filter on the underside of the outlet might clog up with fine dust in no time.

We'll see.


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## slowmotion (24 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> It's been a while... too much work and sitting on my backside often gets in the way of a good project
> 
> Plan A failed, so did plan B and plan C meant making a wooden lid to act as an interface between the little bucket and the big bucket.
> 
> ...


Very nicely done. Let us know how it works when the time comes.


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## roadrash (24 Apr 2021)

I’m pretty sure Wallace and gromitt use something similar


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## MontyVeda (24 Apr 2021)

slowmotion said:


> Very nicely done. Let us know how it works when the time comes.


First use seems very promising. 

Trimmed the bass head to a few MM outside of my pencil line.
Dug out the sander from under the sink and connected it up.
Sanded the bass head down to the line....





There was barely any dust on the platform, which means most of it is being sucked away.
Opened the tub to find a comparable amount of dust in the bottom to what I'd sanded off, and nothing visible clogging up the filter 

Next step is move everything into my mother's garage where it will be forgotten about and never used used for a wide range of projects, including making a body to bolt that bass neck on to.


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## MontyVeda (12 Jun 2021)

Update:

As i suspected, the filter i made...






...did clog up with dust in no time so i removed it. 
Suction is vastly improved (no surprise there) and still very little dust ending up in the actual vacuum cleaner


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