# Unbelievable another one walks free



## numbnuts (15 Sep 2016)

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/147...ist_crash_smiles_as_he_walks_free_from_court/

Why..........British justice can it get any worse


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## Rooster1 (15 Sep 2016)

Disgusting


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## Drago (15 Sep 2016)

"truly sorry for what he did" my arriss.


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## Jimidh (15 Sep 2016)

Without knowing all the circumstances that doesn't seem right to me and I definitely not to the family of the victim.


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## Inertia (15 Sep 2016)

“Who is to know what anyone would do in that situation until they are in it?”
I think we would all hope to do the right thing and if we dont, thats what the justice system is supposed to be for.

“He is finding it very difficult to come to terms with.
At least he is alive to come to terms with it


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## summerdays (15 Sep 2016)

Inertia said:


> “Who is to know what anyone would do in that situation until they are in it?”
> I think we would all hope to do the right thing and if we dont, thats what the justice system is supposed to be for.
> 
> “He is finding it very difficult to come to terms with.
> At least he is alive to come to terms with it


Even in the remote chance you did flee the scene immediately, there was the opportunity to hand himself up in which he failed to take!


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## Profpointy (15 Sep 2016)

I can't help thinking there's an element in the decision that i's believed somhow to be OK or at least understandable to hit / kill a cyclists hence the leniency


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## fossyant (15 Sep 2016)

It's a sad fact that few drivers actually get convicted, or indeed to court. The Police have to have a water tight case before it even gets there. You can see why the Police don't take things further at times as the bureaucracy gets in the way, and a conviction is unlikely.


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## Tin Pot (15 Sep 2016)

Britain, the Land where Murderers walk free.

Disgusting? Yes. 

Unbelievable? Only if you haven't read the news in the last ten years.


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## Tin Pot (15 Sep 2016)

Murderer.


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## steve50 (15 Sep 2016)

Absolutely disgraceful...........................he really looks remorseful doesn't he!!!!!


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## steveindenmark (15 Sep 2016)

fossyant said:


> It's a sad fact that few drivers actually get convicted, or indeed to court. The Police have to have a water tight case before it even gets there. You can see why the Police don't take things further at times as the bureaucracy gets in the way, and a conviction is unlikely.



I left the police because I was sick of fighting the system I thought was supposed to be helping me. The courts are most certainly on the side of the criminals and not on the side of the police.

This case is a perfect example.

As a police officer, you get far more grief from the system than you ever do from being out on the streets.


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## doog (15 Sep 2016)

Words escape me...

However I don't doubt that Hampshire Constabulary did everything they could to secure a conviction within the limitations of the pussy footed CPS charging standards .....however when it gets to a Magistrates Court you are in a room so far removed from reality you may as well whistle...

Shame on those Magistrates.


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## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Sep 2016)

doog said:


> Words escape me...
> 
> However I don't doubt that Hampshire Constabulary did everything they could to secure a conviction within the limitations of the pussy footed CPS charging standards .....however when it gets to a Magistrates Court you are in a room so far removed from reality you may as well whistle...
> 
> Shame on those Magistrates.


He was convicted. There are a few clues in the article, including the words "pleading guilty" and "suspended prison sentence".


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## RoubaixCube (15 Sep 2016)

If only mob justice was allowed. A public lynching of this fellow here would be rather satisfying


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## doog (15 Sep 2016)

Marmion said:


> He was convicted. There are a few clues in the article, including the words "pleading guilty" and "suspended prison sentence".



I didnt say he wasnt ya sarcastic sod


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## Pro Tour Punditry (15 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> If only mob justice was allowed. A public lynching of this fellow here would be rather satisfying


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## classic33 (15 Sep 2016)

fossyant said:


> It's a sad fact that few drivers actually get convicted, or indeed to court. The Police have to have a water tight case before it even gets there. You can see why the Police don't take things further at times as the bureaucracy gets in the way, and a conviction is unlikely.


Even when they have a watertight case, driver with no license, having just blown over the limit, they don't seem to be bothered.


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## Bollo (15 Sep 2016)

I normally avoid getting involved with death-by threads but I remember this one because it's very close to where I work and I've used the A343 often enough returning from rides around the North Wessex Downs. It's perfectly rideable and there's no mitigating reason why this should have happened. The knuckle dragger is as guilty as sin (my money's on the holy trinity of drink, drugs and mobile) and is clearly one of planet Earth's biggest ****s.

I struggle with the sentence but in the end plod weren't able to assemble the evidence to support a more 'appropriate' conviction. It could be that Hants five-oh couldn't be arsed, but given the time and knowing the location I suspect they might actually have done their best but there was very little for them to find.

Rest assured though, if I see laughing boy in the Andover Tescos I'll call him a **** to his face.


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## RoubaixCube (15 Sep 2016)

Like ive been told.... we are pretty much dealing with a organisation thats had at least 40% of cutbacks in every single way. Less bobbies on the beat, less bobbies to process your claim & all the other crucial stuff when a crime has taken place.

The justice system sucks -- there's no denying that but we are demanding more and more from a force thats already pretty stretched.


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## classic33 (15 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Like ive been told.... we are pretty much dealing with a organisation thats had at least 40% of cutbacks in every single way. Less bobbies on the beat, less bobbies to process your claim & all the other crucial stuff when a crime has taken place.
> 
> The justice system sucks -- there's no denying that but we are demanding more and more from a force thats already pretty stretched.


How about just doing the job for which they are being paid? Hardest working, visibly working, officer in the town center, is a PCSO. 

The system is there and in place, it's when it's not followed the shortcomings are shown. And that's when they get off.


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## Incontinentia Buttocks (15 Sep 2016)

classic33 said:


> How about just doing the job for which they are being paid? Hardest working, visibly working, officer in the town center, is a PCSO.
> 
> The system is there and in place, it's when it's not followed the shortcomings are shown. And that's when they get off.


You'll probably find that lone pcso is the only person left now.


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## RoubaixCube (15 Sep 2016)

classic33 said:


> How about just doing the job for which they are being paid? Hardest working, visibly working, officer in the town center, is a PCSO.
> 
> The system is there and in place, it's when it's not followed the shortcomings are shown. And that's when they get off.



PSCO's might not have the same powers as the regular police though. PSCO's powers have always been limited.


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## Bollo (15 Sep 2016)

RoubaixCube said:


> Like ive been told.... we are pretty much dealing with a organisation thats had at least 40% of cutbacks in every single way. Less bobbies on the beat, less bobbies to process your claim & all the other crucial stuff when a crime has taken place.
> 
> The justice system sucks -- there's no denying that but we are demanding more and more from a force thats already pretty stretched.





classic33 said:


> How about just doing the job for which they are being paid? Hardest working, visibly working, officer in the town center, is a PCSO.
> 
> The system is there and in place, it's when it's not followed the shortcomings are shown. And that's when they get off.


I know it's frustrating and plod often don't do themselves any favours, but how much manpower would you need to patrol a roundabout at 1am in a Hampshire market town? Without an eye-witness, there's only the word of the perp and physical evidence. If there's no physical evidence.....

If we accept that convictions must be both evidence-based and 'beyond reasonable doubt', then crap like this is going to happen. The alternative is people ending up in jail when they've been convicted on hearsay, prejudice and patronage.


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## classic33 (15 Sep 2016)

Bollo said:


> I know it's frustrating and plod often don't do themselves any favours, but how much manpower would you need to patrol a roundabout at 1am in a Hampshire market town? Without an eye-witness, there's only the word of the perp and physical evidence. If there's no physical evidence.....
> 
> If we accept that convictions must be both evidence-based and 'beyond reasonable doubt', then crap like this is going to happen. The alternative is people ending up in jail when they've been convicted on hearsay, prejudice and patronage.


Or you go through the system, have those paid for running/operating the system failing to do so, and someone walks free.

This is headed for sc&p


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## Tin Pot (15 Sep 2016)

Justice must be seen to be done.


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## Bollo (15 Sep 2016)

classic33 said:


> Or you go through the system, have those paid for running/operating the system failing to do so, and someone walks free.
> 
> This is headed for sc&p


I hope not. Advocacy maybe.


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## classic33 (15 Sep 2016)

numbnuts said:


> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/147...ist_crash_smiles_as_he_walks_free_from_court/
> 
> Why..........British justice can it get any worse


Contrast that with this Body of cyclist in alleged hit-and-run was ‘driven’ through hedge


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## Accy cyclist (16 Sep 2016)

steve50 said:


> Absolutely disgraceful...........................he really looks remorseful doesn't he!!!!!



He's an ugly fecker,i know that!!


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## Electric_Andy (16 Sep 2016)

It's nice that they plastered a good mugshot in the papers though. I know how I'd be spending my free time if I were a member of the grieving family


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## Dave Davenport (16 Sep 2016)

Whilst I understand the legal difficulties of getting a conviction on a more serious charge, what galls me is that he was given a lenient sentence for what he was proven to be guilty of, after the magistrates had a 10 minute chat! 
Don't suppose there's any chance the CPS will appeal the sentence?


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## Dave Davenport (16 Sep 2016)

As a slight aside; I don't know whether it's down to resources, leadership or both, but the few times I've had dealings with Hampshire police have all left me pretty unimpressed.


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## Accy cyclist (16 Sep 2016)

What were the circumstances around this "accident"? Thy don't go into much if any detail. Was the cyclist riding without lights for example? I know the motorist said he was drink, smoke and phone free but who believes that?!

Not wanting to start a new thread about such matters, i see the number of people using a phone while driving has risen and the chances of them being caught doing it has fallen.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-calls-drivers-automatic-bans.html#comments


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## summerdays (16 Sep 2016)

Accy cyclist said:


> What were the circumstances around this "accident"? Thy don't go into much if any detail. Was the cyclist riding without lights for example? I know the motorist said he was drink, smoke and phone free but who believes that?!
> 
> Not wanting to start a new thread about such matters, i see the number of people using a phone while driving has risen and the chances of them being caught doing it has fallen.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-calls-drivers-automatic-bans.html#comments


No need to start a thread.... There already is one


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## Bollo (16 Sep 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Whilst I understand the legal difficulties of getting a conviction on a more serious charge, what galls me is that he was given a lenient sentence for what he was proven to be guilty of, after the magistrates had a 10 minute chat!
> Don't suppose there's any chance the CPS will appeal the sentence?


I agree the sentence appears lenient but from poking around on the interbob it seems to be towards the upper end of penalties that can be imposed for the charge. They could have sent him to prison for a few months, but there's probably pressure from above to keep a lid on the prison population. Don't get me wrong, he's scum, but for this specific case I've got some sympathy with the authorities.


Dave Davenport said:


> As a slight aside; I don't know whether it's down to resources, leadership or both, but the few times I've had dealings with Hampshire police have all left me pretty unimpressed.


My dealings were very underwhelming when I was hit by a driver in 2008 and I wouldn't bother reporting anything less than my own death for cycling incidents, if only for traffic management purposes. This was long before Teresa May got her hands on police numbers as well. Equally, I had to report a non-cycling incident earlier this year and they were excellent.


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## Tin Pot (16 Sep 2016)

Bollo said:


> Sorry but I disagree. Justice must be done, no less, but certainly no more.



You are railing against my position that justice must be seen to be done? Curious.

How do you think the populace of any society eventually responds when they repeatedly do not see justice being carried out in their name?


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## Bollo (16 Sep 2016)

Tin Pot said:


> You are railing against my position that justice must be seen to be done? Curious.
> 
> How do you think the populace of any society eventually responds when they repeatedly do not see justice being carried out in their name?


I've not 'railed' against anyone - I've made a reasoned argument that you're free to disagree with. I've also acknowledged that I'm conflicted in this particular case and understand why others might have a different opinion. If you check my post I'd removed that bit long before your last post as I didn't want exactly the type of hysterical nonsense you've just posted.

But seeing as you've asked then yes, I do have a real problem with mob justice, whether its the pedophile witch hunts of a few years ago where innocent people were attacked, the imprisonment of the Birmingham six (remember that the mob would have hung them) or the abuse of the blasphemy laws in Pakistan to persecute minorities and settle scores. Mob justice can turn on the innocent just as easily as the guilty.


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## Tin Pot (16 Sep 2016)

Bollo said:


> I've not 'railed' against anyone - I've made a reasoned argument that you're free to disagree with. I've also acknowledged that I'm conflicted in this particular case and understand why others might have a different opinion. If you check my post I'd removed that bit long before your last post as I didn't want exactly the type of hysterical nonsense you've just posted.
> 
> But seeing as you've asked then yes, I do have a real problem with mob justice, whether its the pedophile witch hunts of a few years ago where innocent people were attacked, the imprisonment of the Birmingham six (remember that the mob would have hung them) or the abuse of the blasphemy laws in Pakistan to persecute minorities and settle scores. Mob justice can turn on the innocent just as easily as the guilty.



I think that you misunderstand, the phrase "justice must be seen to be done".

And also that I am warning against mob justice, not for it.

As for "hysterical", I'm not sure what to say - here are no exclamation marks in my post.


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## Pale Rider (16 Sep 2016)

Dave Davenport said:


> Don't suppose there's any chance the CPS will appeal the sentence?



No, because appeals against too lenient sentences are only possible with certain indictable-only offences triable at the crown court.

Death by careless is an either way offence, triable at magistrates' court or crown.

Maximum sentence in magistrates is six months, maximum sentence in crown is five years.


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## Winnershsaint (23 Sep 2016)

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/147...es_as_he_walks_free_from_court/?ref=mrb&lp=18


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## Racing roadkill (23 Sep 2016)

Winnershsaint said:


> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/147...es_as_he_walks_free_from_court/?ref=mrb&lp=18


Scum bag. However he's got a sentence, suspended for a bit. The chances of him keeping his nose clean in that period, is precisely bugger all I reckon.


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