# Average speed on club rides



## MessenJah (20 Nov 2010)

What exactly do the people who publish club ride info mean when they say 'average speed'? 

E.g. Club one might do a ride that is mostly flat, whereas club 2 might do a ride that involves a lot of climbing. If they both say the average speed is 17mph then obviously club 2's ride is going to be much harder than club 1's ride.

Also, when they say 'average speed' are they talking about the average speed shown on the cycle computer after the ride (i.e. mean speed), or are they talking about the speed that they travel at most of the time (i.e. the modal speed)? And does this take hills into account or not?


----------



## addictfreak (20 Nov 2010)

I know that with my club its the average on our computers at the end of a ride.


----------



## Fran143 (20 Nov 2010)

addictfreak said:


> I know that with my club its the average on our computers at the end of a ride.




+1


----------



## gavintc (20 Nov 2010)

Ave speed is always quoted as the speed shown on your computer at the end of the ride. You will realise that an ave of 17 mph demands that you can ride at significantly higher speeds to achieve this average.


----------



## lukesdad (20 Nov 2010)

Can t say we bother as a club that is.


----------



## Lighthorse (21 Nov 2010)

Go on the slowest ride first. If its too slow, go on a faster ride next week.


----------



## r0bbti (21 Nov 2010)

Someone once told me that you can average approx 20% faster speed if you ride in a group than on your own - ie if you average 15mph on your own, you would average 18mph in a group. Does anyone know if that is about right? Or wishful thinking!


----------



## HLaB (21 Nov 2010)

r0bbti said:


> Someone once told me that you can average approx 20% faster speed if you ride in a group than on your own - ie if you average 15mph on your own, you would average 18mph in a group. Does anyone know if that is about right? Or wishful thinking!


Yip spot on, some even say its up to 30%, riding in a group you benefit from slip streaming/ drafting as explained in this vid.


----------



## Lighthorse (21 Nov 2010)

r0bbti said:


> Someone once told me that you can average approx 20% faster speed if you ride in a group than on your own - ie if you average 15mph on your own, you would average 18mph in a group. Does anyone know if that is about right? Or wishful thinking!




In a group, its as fast as the guy at the front wants to ride. 

If he's too fast, there will be shouts from behind like "Your leaving us then?"


----------



## lukesdad (21 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> In a group, its as fast as the guy at the front wants to ride.
> 
> If he's too fast, there will be shouts from behind like "Your leaving us then?"


If the group splits up your on your own so, I d say 0-30%


----------



## Lighthorse (22 Nov 2010)

lukesdad said:


> If the group splits up your on your own so, I d say 0-30%




A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club. 
If 1 rider finds difficulty, another, more experienced rider will ride with them back to their home.
If 1 rider is in extreme difficulty, two more experienced riders will stay with them until the ambulance arrives, and then get the bike back to the person's home.

Drafting assistance depends on the size of the group ahead and its proximity.


----------



## gavintc (22 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club.
> If 1 rider finds difficulty, another, more experienced rider will ride with them back to their home.
> If 1 rider is in extreme difficulty, two more experienced riders will stay with them until the ambulance arrives, and then get the bike back to the person's home.
> 
> Drafting assistance depends on the size of the group ahead and its proximity.



Depends on your club, In some it is Devil take the hindmost. My current Italian club meets with about 2 other clubs, the groups get mixed and you might get friend coming back for you, but most of the time it is a best effort race training run and if you lose the pace, you ride home alone. It does motivate you to find that extra little effort to keep a wheel.


----------



## GlasgowGaryH (22 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club.
> If 1 rider finds difficulty, another, more experienced rider will ride with them back to their home.
> If 1 rider is in extreme difficulty, two more experienced riders will stay with them until the ambulance arrives, and then get the bike back to the person's home.
> 
> Drafting assistance depends on the size of the group ahead and its proximity.



My type of club




gavintc said:


> Depends on your club, In some it is Devil take the hindmost. My current Italian club meets with about 2 other clubs, the groups get mixed and you might get friend coming back for you, but most of the time it is a best effort race training run and if you lose the pace, you ride home alone. It does motivate you to find that extra little effort to keep a wheel.




Not my type of club


----------



## totallyfixed (22 Nov 2010)

gavintc said:


> Depends on your club, In some it is Devil take the hindmost. My current Italian club meets with about 2 other clubs, the groups get mixed and you might get friend coming back for you, but most of the time it is a best effort race training run and if you lose the pace, you ride home alone. It does motivate you to find that extra little effort to keep a wheel.



That's not a club run in the true sense of the word. The club I have joined recently [and I have been in several] is very new but already has 200 members. The average speed is the overall average and most clubs run at around 15 - 17mph IME. The best clubs, if big enough run several levels of ability, but no one should ever be dropped. The success of the club run very much relies on the experience of the ride leader and his / her ability to control the speed. Remember, the club run is a social ride and NOT a training ride - two totally different animals.


----------



## Philip Whiteman (22 Nov 2010)

A Ride: 17-19mph
B Ride: 13-15mph
C Ride: 12 mph

Moaning Minnies will always complain that the run is too fast of inconsistent in terms of speed. One such moaner had is comeuppance on a hilly course when I decided to maintain an 'average speed'. 18mph up hills, on the flat and on descents. When he muttered about being dropped on a hill, he was simply told be the group, _'you were the one complaining about inconsistent speeds'_. He never complained after that!


----------



## lukesdad (22 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club.
> If 1 rider finds difficulty, another, more experienced rider will ride with them back to their home.
> If 1 rider is in extreme difficulty, two more experienced riders will stay with them until the ambulance arrives, and then get the bike back to the person's home.
> 
> Drafting assistance depends on the size of the group ahead and its proximity.




What are you talking about ? Every club Ive been in over the last 35 years has done the same on the Sunday club run and split up all over the road, waiting at strategic points for stragglers. As I said drafting 0-30 %. Chaingang now thats a different animal altogether.


----------



## Lighthorse (22 Nov 2010)

lukesdad said:


> What are you talking about ? Every club Ive been in over the last 35 years has done the same on the Sunday club run and split up all over the road, waiting at strategic points for stragglers. As I said drafting 0-30 %. Chaingang now thats a different animal altogether.




The clubs I've been a member of usually ride two-a-breast with a pair at the back. They ride as a procession. They don't split up and cause the leaders to stop and wait. On busy roads, they ride in single file with an experienced clubmember at the very rear. If anyone can't manage the pace, they will be noticed.
If someone is having an off day, someone will volunteer to accompany that rider back to his home.
There is always another Sunday.


----------



## lukesdad (22 Nov 2010)

What you describe is not a "Club ride" its a "Club social Ride"


----------



## Banjo (22 Nov 2010)

Philip Whiteman said:


> A Ride: 17-19mph
> B Ride: 13-15mph
> C Ride: 12 mph
> 
> Moaning Minnies will always complain that the run is too fast of inconsistent in terms of speed. One such moaner had is comeuppance on a hilly course when I decided to maintain an 'average speed'. 18mph up hills, on the flat and on descents. When he muttered about being dropped on a hill, he was simply told be the group, _'you were the one complaining about inconsistent speeds'_. He never complained after that!



What distance are the club runs? This has cheered me up a bit as I presumed club rides would be out of my league but I could definitely cope with the middle group and not too far away from the top group on a good day.

The only club I am a member of is a very laid back touring club where we are definitely more interested in the scenery and quality of the beer at lunchtime. Enjoyable but doesnt really do much for your fitness unfortunately


----------



## theboytaylor (22 Nov 2010)

Ave speed should mean the average on your computer at the end of the ride. I'd say the best way to find out what a club means by what it advertises would be to contact someone from the club - there's usually some contact details on their website. Not only can you find out the answer to your question, you might also get more of an idea of what the club is like - whether it's friendly and open to all types, or whether it concentrates on a specific discipline (like racing) or is just plain unfriendly. 

I think you can suss that sort of thing out just from a couple of e-mails or phone calls and judge whether it's the type of club you are looking for.


----------



## Lighthorse (23 Nov 2010)

Each ride starts at the same time, normally nine o'clock. Each ride aims to arrive at the pub at one o'clock. The A ride covers 75ish miles. The B run covers around 100km. The C run covers 50 miles and the D run covers 45ish miles.
Once a month, there is an E ride of about 30 miles for children and beginners.


----------



## Philip Whiteman (23 Nov 2010)

Banjo said:


> What distance are the club runs? This has cheered me up a bit as I presumed club rides would be out of my league but I could definitely cope with the middle group and not too far away from the top group on a good day.
> 
> The only club I am a member of is a very laid back touring club where we are definitely more interested in the scenery and quality of the beer at lunchtime. Enjoyable but doesnt really do much for your fitness unfortunately




Most clubs vary in terms of what distances, speeds and methods. In terms of the BeaconRCC our A&B rides ride between 50-90 miles depending on the time of year. C runs are shorter in length whilst the Into Club Rides are diddy. 

Before venturing off with a club ride, it is worth finding out what the club is actually like to ride with. You need to find out whether they are friendly, safe and considerate. You don't want to ride whether a group of idiots trying to show off, dropping riders and behaving like a clique. I occasionally come across riders that have suffered such experiences.


----------



## Brahan (23 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club.



I wouldn't say this is true. Our club is very small and normally we only get about 5 or 6 riders out on the Sunday club run. The key to a good club run is that everyone is satisfied with the amount of riding they get and the speed it was run at. This means that from time to time the quick ones can go flying off for a couple of miles to get the heart racing and then slow up for the rest of the guys to catch up. Sometimes pushing the pace and getting into formation for a few miles like a Team TT, sprinting up hills, racing for signs, hammering it down hill etc. Our club run isn't what I'd call easy, but as long as you explain to the new guy what to expect, they normally come back for more the next week.

Agreed, it's a bit rude to put the hammer down and leave a newbie gasping for breath and trailing miles behind, but when you're out with a few guys there's always going to be that inbuilt element of competition and well sometimes when you finally remember to look over your shoulder there's no-one there........ah well if they can't hack the pace.


----------



## lukesdad (23 Nov 2010)

Brahan said:


> I wouldn't say this is true. Our club is very small and normally we only get about 5 or 6 riders out on the Sunday club run. The key to a good club run is that everyone is satisfied with the amount of riding they get and the speed it was run at. This means that from time to time the quick ones can go flying off for a couple of miles to get the heart racing and then slow up for the rest of the guys to catch up. Sometimes pushing the pace and getting into formation for a few miles like a Team TT, sprinting up hills, racing for signs, hammering it down hill etc. Our club run isn't what I'd call easy, but as long as you explain to the new guy what to expect, they normally come back for more the next week.
> 
> Agreed, it's a bit rude to put the hammer down and leave a newbie gasping for breath and trailing miles behind, but when you're out with a few guys there's always going to be that inbuilt element of competition and well sometimes when you finally remember to look over your shoulder there's no-one there........ah well if they can't hack the pace.


Our club is very similar. We only have 80 members or so,during the winter we get a similar no.of riders out on a sunday and we ride in the same way. If we split into groups depending on ability there would be no club ride.
Some of us meet before the run and ride to the start,giving us a chance to put the hammer down. On the run it is not unusual for it to be spread out across a couple of miles of tarmac. Having said that everybody knows the route and everybody knows the score but, the important part is everybody knows everybody else and any shortfalls within the group that there may be.

This is one of the advantages of a small "club"as opposed to a larger "association of cyclists". I feel as a club we punch above our weight. We organise the Presili Angel Sportive, and Cardigan Street Races. Not bad for a club with only 80 members virtualy every club member is involved.

Lighthorse, you may like to take a look at our Website at Velo Teifi or the cardigan street races video in the racing thread, then maybe revise your definition,of what is a right club and a wrong club.


----------



## Lighthorse (23 Nov 2010)

lukesdad said:


> If the group splits up your on your own so, I d say 0-30%



From this, I thought "What kind of a club splits and leaves a fellow clubmember on his own?" My idea of a Split is where the rider falls back out of sight of the group and may take a wrong turn at a junction.
If this is not so, I appologise. I now realise your meaning of Split is two or more bike lengths.

Two or more bike lengths is far enough to lose a drafting effect.


----------



## Banjo (23 Nov 2010)

Philip Whiteman said:


> Most clubs vary in terms of what distances, speeds and methods. In terms of the BeaconRCC our A&B rides ride between 50-90 miles depending on the time of year. C runs are shorter in length whilst the Into Club Rides are diddy.
> 
> Before venturing off with a club ride, it is worth finding out what the club is actually like to ride with. You need to find out whether they are friendly, safe and considerate. You don't want to ride whether a group of idiots trying to show off, dropping riders and behaving like a clique. I occasionally come across riders that have suffered such experiences.



Thanks for the advice Phillip My work is too erratic at the moment for any regular commitments ,may look into some local clubs in the spring.I think I could just about cope with the B group run over that distance. 

Cheers


----------



## Rassendyll (23 Nov 2010)

Why should a club never leave someone or split the group. What a load of tripe.

If that's the normal practice of the clubs or groups you ride with then fine.

But other clubs have groups that vary - some groups stick together and some are dropping rides where you have to keep up or find your way home . 

Are you saying that if I go on an 'A' ride with a bunch of guys planning to ride together and come back with a high speed average and a much weaker rider decided to join us, instead of one of the slower groups, then we should all slow down and wait for him. 

Some clubs and some rides are social and some clubs and some rides are sporty. 

As long as it is clearly stated and everyone understands I don't see the problem.


----------



## Dave Davenport (23 Nov 2010)

We split into between 3 and 5 groups with average speeds between 12 & 20mph, I usually lead the 2nd one at 16 to 18. If you go with the fast group and can't keep up you will get dropped, but it's not the done thing to drop anyone in the slower groups. 

There was a bit of debate on the club forum about posting average speeds but the concensus was it helps people to decide which group to go with and when to move up.


----------



## iAmiAdam (23 Nov 2010)

Lighthorse said:


> A cycle club group ride will never leave 1 rider trailing. If they do, you are in the wrong club.
> If 1 rider finds difficulty, another, more experienced rider will ride with them back to their home.
> If 1 rider is in extreme difficulty, two more experienced riders will stay with them until the ambulance arrives, and then get the bike back to the person's home.
> 
> Drafting assistance depends on the size of the group ahead and its proximity.



Not strictly true, you won't get dropped on social rides, you will get dropped on quick rides.


----------



## MLC (6 Jan 2011)

Last year I rode with the CTC and also tried 2 different local clubs with a racing bias.

CTC (mine anyway) there can be 30+ riders turn up and you will generally split into groups with a slower shorter route - which can be very very slow 10-11mph avg though usually 12.5-15 and then a longer slightly quicker route at a relaxed ish pace 15-17mph. No one gets dropped stragglers or mechanicals alike there will always be someone who assists (having said that ride leader cocked up once and did drop someone with a puncture).

Club A - about 4 different levels of social rides on a sunday a slow novice13-4, quick novice (15-16 mph) intermediate 17-19 then balls out group above that which are more training rides. One guy on a social ride in the novice group got a puncture and was dropped. I advised ride leader was ignored and never returned for the ride next week. On website it does advise that you will get dropped on training rides if you can't keep up these look to do 20-25+avg but to be honest on a novice social ride there should be no one being dropped.

Club B
Training rides on a sunday 17-19mph avg. This was a nice club however they had a figure of eight training loop which got boring every week. About 2 categories on the training group one 15 ish avg 2 looked to get 17-19mph average with each loop of the circuit (starting and finishing at club house) getting quicker and quicker until people dropped out. There was a club training run and this split unofficially on ability into may 2 or 3 groups. I can not comment on that as the quick guys looked to average around 24 (I couldn't even do that on a TT) so I never went for it.

I tended to stay with CTC as I preferred the camerarderie and the varying routes. There were a few of us of similar ability and we tended to naturally split off into our own group. It was not a hard ride but once I achieved a base level fitness I started to put in a longer harder ride of approx 18 miles on my way to the meeting point so as I could just enjoy the club run.

You pays your money you takes your choice.


----------



## GrasB (6 Jan 2011)

It's so club & ride dependent. 

One club I go to you have the A & B groups, stronger riders go in A group, weaker riders go in B. The pace depends on the people that day & no one is left behind.

In another club they have 4 levels the touring, sporting paced rides are as fast as the slowest rider. The race paced ride is the longest ride of the lot typically covering 80-100 miles in summer & while they out as a group to the cafe stop but on the return leg it splinters into smaller groups of riders for a fairly flat out end to the ride. Race training is exactly what it says on the tin, it is a very hard competitive ride, if you can't maintain the pace of the peloton then you will get dropped, expect break aways any time anywhere & the pace will slowly increase throughout the ride. In fact the organisers say that riders going on the race training should carry a map or GPS device plus a mobile with them so they can get home if you're dropped. All groups will stop for mechanical problems or physical injuries.

Yet another club I know have a 4 step system touring, intermediate, sporting & race training/sporting+ but the first 3 are more regulated & I duno how their race training work.


----------

