# Shoulder and neck pain, driving me mad!!



## speccy1 (24 Apr 2010)

Anybody else had this??

It started last Sunday and hasn`t let up since. I`ve been really getting the miles in recently, so I`m thinking maybe it is due to that?? I`ve tried hot baths, frozen peas, deep heat, pain killers etc, and it doesn`t seem to be getting much better, just a niggling muscular pain 24/7

Booked a docs appointment for next week but was just wondering if anybody else has experienced the same thing. Oddly, a couple of hours on the bike seems to ease it, and it gets worse when I`m laying in bed


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## Mark_Robson (24 Apr 2010)

I had a car crash in 95 and ended up with whiplash and I've had problems with my neck ever since. The biggest factor for me is what happens when I'm asleep. Some mornings I wake up with a really stiff sore neck and some days I am fine.
My advice would be to make sure that you sleep relatively flat, seek out some physio and try and keep your neck as mobile as possible. I always move mine from side to side and up and down but I was told to avoid circular movements.


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## speccy1 (24 Apr 2010)

Thanks Mark

It reminds me very much of whiplash but I haven`t been in an accident, but it`s all the same symptoms

I work in a hospital so may well have a chat with the physio guys and see what they say


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## gbs (24 Apr 2010)

You may care to try this to relieve tension created by less than perfect posture when seated on chairs, in front of screens and dare I say it,when in the saddle.

Standing or seated. straighten the spine by imagining that a thread is pulling yr head up. Go into a "hands up response" position with palms facing forward. Now drop the elbows down and in towards the waist being sure to pull back so that yr hands are in line with yr shoulders. You may feel a pull across the chest muscles

Try it at yr desk, at traffic lights etc - two or three times a day for 20-30 seconds.


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## MacB (24 Apr 2010)

Have you made any adjustments to your bike, it doesn't take much? If you've recently upped your mileage what are we talking here? Have you previously done this osrt of mielage level on the same bike with the same setup and no issues? I'd look at:-

Bike setup - make sure it all suits you, lots of resource here and elsewhere discussing how best to do this

Your fitness - it's not uncommon to see people saying things like a saddle's only comfy up to 60 miles, or they get pains after 30 miles but are fine for anything less etc. Sheldon Brown has an excellent article about posture and bike fit. It's really just common sense, as you get tired it becomes harder to maintain the correct posture. Also we can pick up poor posture riding styles that are fine for shorter distances but don't transfer well to longer ones. The problem is that it can be very hard to identify specific things as it all shifts with fitness and minute adjustments. 

An easy experiment is to try different pedalling styles when you're still fresh. If you pedal hard you can feel that there's less pressure brought to bear on your upper body and bum as the feet/legs are taking more. Then try to emulate your pedalling style as if you were knackered. You should feel more generally slumped and with less weight being taken by your lower body.


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## speccy1 (24 Apr 2010)

I`m doing 3 40 mile rides a week at the moment on top of getting to work and all the short journeys etc, been doing that for about 3 weeks now, prior to that I had been on holiday, and away on training courses so not many miles done for a while

I will pay attention to my posture when pedalling at the beginning and end of rides to see if there is any difference. As for the bike setup, nothing has really changed apart from a new seatpost a while ago


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## Manonabike (24 Apr 2010)

I was having the same symptoms a few weeks ago. I had also upped the miles. Somebody here suggested I should look at my bike setup so I moved the seat back in small steps. The result is that I can do 90 miles and I don't get as much neck, and shoulder pain as I was getting a few weeks ago after doing 40 or 50 miles. The thing is that now I seem to slide forward and after 30 miles or so I begin to change positions on the saddle trying to find comfort. Yesterday I raised the tip of the saddle a little and today I went for a 35 miles ride and I notice that while riding with a headwind I could not find a good position after the first 10 miles or so. On the way back, with a tailwind it wasn't too bad. That would suggest that peddaling harder makes it more uncomfortable. 

So, if I were you, I would look at your seat position and test.


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## speccy1 (24 Apr 2010)

Funny you should say that, because I am aware of sliding forward quite often but don`t really take any notice of it. I`ll try putting the seat back a bit then

Cheers


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## Trek Trauma Chris (25 Apr 2010)

Go see a Chiropractor, get him to check your neck vertebrae to make sure its not a trapped nerve (the pain can be similar to a pulled muscle) because as you ride along you go across those mini pot holes or dips in the road and they jolt your whole body if you are not prepared for them.

Your head and neck are the most vulnerable as everything else is gripping, clipped in or sitting on the bike and therefore fairly stable, so you can get a little whiplash effect.

After that try massage.


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## Bandini (25 Apr 2010)

I had chronic neck pain years ago. Tried osteopath but couldn't afford to go for all the sessions it may have taken to clear up - and not sure that it would have. Did the relevant exercises in this book and it cleared up. If I get any pains now, I do the exercises and it disappears pretty quickly. 


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steps-Pain-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272213646&sr=8-1


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## Chrisc (25 Apr 2010)

+1 on the neck nerve. Physio sorted me out in a few sessions after 8 months of chronic pain. Had numbness in the arm, pains in the neck and shoulder. All down to bad posture and seized up facet joints in the neck which, once mobilised and with a few simple exercises to strengthen my back muscles to correct my slouch, sorted it.
Now I sit up straight. like my mother told me....


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## aJohnson (25 Apr 2010)

I'm the same way as you, my neck and shoulders ache on longer rides and occasionally my arms.


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## Bandini (25 Apr 2010)

I get aches after longer rides - just see it as inevitable as I am coming up to 40!

I know this isn't bike related, but if you are at a desk a lot, maybe worth thinking about other things. I also use a lumbar role on my chair to correct posture, and I have a 'Posturite; board on my desk I use for working on - can use as a reading/writing slope and, although it doesn't advertise it for this, you can put your laptop on it:

http://www.posturite.co.uk/PosturiteSite/product/1011.htm


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## Mark_Robson (25 Apr 2010)

If you use your laptop to type with you should really have the keyboard flat, as trying to type with the wrists bent upwards can lead to RSI's and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.


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## Bandini (25 Apr 2010)

Yeah - but typing with it flat gives me neck ache! I rest them on the laptop - not too bent.


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## Mark_Robson (26 Apr 2010)

In that case I would recommend regular breaks. preferably with a cup of tea.


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## Globalti (26 Apr 2010)

I lifted a sack of coal at Christmas and pulled a muscle in my lower back. Struggled with it for weeks, went to see my physio but his hands and the head of his ultrasound machine were so damned cold that I came out feeling worse. The I went to see a different physio and she seemed to have a really good understanding of the anatomy of the upper pelvis, she prodded me and make me yelp and squirm but when I walked out the pain had almost gone, it was amazing. I am now pain free, thank God (but got a knee problem instead!) My advice would be to try somebody else.


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## Bandini (1 May 2010)

Mark_Robson said:


> If you use your laptop to type with you should really have the keyboard flat, as trying to type with the wrists bent upwards can lead to RSI's and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.



Thanks for reminding me about that - got a usb keyboard plugged in now.


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## Bayerd (1 May 2010)

I suffer from time to time with this, last year I had the problem for about 9 months. I tried allsorts to get rid of it. There are two things I can suggest that helped me-

1) Memoryfoam pillow. They take a bit of getting used to, but they certainly help reduce ahem..morning stiffness.

2) I got referred by my doctor to the hospitals occupational therapy service. They tried acupuncture, which got rid of it after about 5 sessions.


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## bigjim (7 May 2010)

I'm never sure about this bad posture sit up straight thing. Is it natural? All your weight would compress the spinal discs and coccyx. I find an upright position on my motorcycle or MTB uncomfortable after a while. I'm sure the spinal discs are meant to hang almost vertically in a natural position. Don't see many of the great apes walking around with a ramrod straight back and they seem to remain strong and supple into old age.


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## Fiona N (8 May 2010)

bigjim said:


> ... Don't see many of the great apes walking around with a ramrod straight back and they seem to remain strong and supple into old age.



Good lord, mate, haven't you heard of evolution ? 
Homo sapiens has evolved quite a bit since we left our chimp cousins and came down out of the trees - modification to the spine/pelvis to facilitate upright locomotion is one of the primary changes. Chimps can walk on two legs at a push but it doesn't compare to the efficient way we walk around fully upright and balanced. Our spine has developed to form a rather strong and lovely upright structure with curves which distributes the stresses really rather cleverly. Discs are shock absorbers between vertebrae and work best when the forces are applied perpendicular to the top and bottom faces, not obliquely, as happens when you're bent over as on a bike. In this position, much more effort is required by the muscles which provide stability to the bony structure. When these muscles tire, the spine loses it's ideal alignment causing deformed discs, trapped nerves and whatnot.

Sitting with your head balanced atop an upright spine, your shoulders relaxed and shoulder blades neatly down the back (i.e. no hunched shoulders) but with your upper legs at about 135 degrees (i.e. knees below bum height not knees at right angles) to your upper body will give you the most ergonomically efficient position - one of the reasons why those kneeling chairs are said to be good although many people find they're too hard on the shins to be usable as an everyday office chair.


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## bigjim (8 May 2010)

> as happens when you're bent over as on a bike


So like I said not ramrod straight. And why I am more comfortable bent over on my racing cycle/motorbike rather than with bikes that make you assume the more upright position.


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## Fiona N (11 May 2010)

bigjim said:


> So like I said not ramrod straight. And why I am more comfortable bent over on my racing cycle/motorbike rather than with bikes that make you assume the more upright position.



Probably because an upright position on a bike isn't really upright relative to a normal (good) sitting position, it's just upright compared to a lower riding position so it's the worst of both worlds. If you really do sit upright (vicar on a sit-up-and-beg scenario), you probably need a very well sprung saddle as the structure of the back isn't made for road shock absorbing in that vertical position - the shock of upright running/jumping/skipping is mitigated by using the muscles of the legs and feet primarily.


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## bigjim (14 May 2010)

Hmmm.
Not sure on that one. Does not the presence of air filled tyres and some leg support, mitigate the pressure associated with an upright riding position? Of course we all walk run differently and I suppose our skeletons differ as well in regard to age, wear, bone density etc. I actually experience quite a bit of back pain whilst walking and running. So for me an upright position does not seem to work.


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## Fiona N (15 May 2010)

Well, I don't know what pressure you run your tyres at but mine are mostly 100-110psi - not an awful lot of shock-absorbing going on there. There's no 'leg support' as such unless you're pressing the pedals so hard you're rising out of the saddle - otherwise your weight is borne by the saddle somewhere. 
The more bent over position you prefer is likely to be more comfortable because you get arm support - your back forms a nice arch which is supported at one end by your arms and the other by bum on saddle. As you move to more upright, you lose the arm support and thus the 'arch' formation. For most people the optimum position is where the arms just take enough weight for the back to be relaxed even when pedalling reasonably strenuously. With less weight on the arms it's hard to pedal strenuously while maintaining stability but with more, your hands and wrists get sore.

If you get back pain while standing/walking etc. you ought to get it checked out - it sounds like you've maybe got weak core muscles and tight hamstrings which cause the back to 'flatten' (i.e. pelvis to be rotated back) or just weak abdominals which allow the pelvis to rotate forwards causing too much curve in the lumbar spine - either way gives problems and needs sorting.


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## zacklaws (16 May 2010)

Whilst I was reading up on the results for the Giro, I came across the following on a website that I browsed through, it may give you some clues:-

http://www.roadcycling.com/training/Neck_and_Back_Pain_in_Cycling_002694.shtml


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## monnet (16 May 2010)

I've recently been suffering with nasty neck/ shoulder pain. This coincided with fitting new handlebars (which initially seemed much more comfortable). After playing with position and taking many measurements I was really struggling to resolve the problem. IN the end it turned out that the levers were not quite level (the right was 4mm higher than the left). I'm hoping that's the end of it now!


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## bigjim (19 May 2010)

> If you get back pain while standing/walking etc. you ought to get it checked out - it sounds like you've maybe got weak core muscles and tight hamstrings which cause the back to 'flatten' (i.e. pelvis to be rotated back) or just weak abdominals which allow the pelvis to rotate forwards causing too much curve in the lumbar spine - either way gives problems and needs sorting.


Thanks for the info. Consultant thinks my pain is sciatic, had all the scans etc. Started in the knee, lower leg. Nothing found apart from some cartilige damage. I find the bike to be pain free probably because it is not weight bearing. My core and abs are good as I do a fair amount of gym work including plenty of 60K plus squats. Although the knees do complain sometimes if I pile too muchweight on.

Jim.


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## Browser (26 May 2010)

I've got the same problem at the mo, which I'm putting down to having my first drop-bar bike for years. That and the fact that (a) I've been riding into a headwind on the way home so have been using the drops, leading to ( realising that I need to position my helmet better so the peak doesn't obscure by forward view or (more corectly) force me to adopt a horrid neck angle to be able to see where the hell I'm going and (c) whilst my Probikekit cycling glasses might have been nice and cheap, the thick top frame exacerbates the problem described in part (, so I think they're going to have to be replaced with some better fitting/suited ones.



monet said:


> I've recently been suffering with nasty neck/ shoulder pain. This coincided with fitting new handlebars (which initially seemed much more comfortable). After playing with position and taking many measurements I was really struggling to resolve the problem. In the end it turned out that the levers were not quite level (the right was 4mm higher than the left). I'm hoping that's the end of it now!



Havign just altered the angle of my bars slightly (pointing the ends more toward my rear wheel spindle) because of the pain in my thumb webs from being shunted hard up against the brake hoods, I've noticed mine aren't quite bang on either, but was telling myself not to be an obsessive. I think I'll try adjusting them now


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## e-rider (26 May 2010)

one reason why you don't see many roadies wearing peaked helmets


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