# shorts in winter - will i damage my knees?



## united4ever (3 Jan 2016)

I am a real sweaty betty when i cycle. First winter of cycling but through december i just did it in shorts, t-shirt and a long sleeve cycle top which i took off after the first ten minutes. Now i know january is colder and so i dont want to get arthritus in a few years. Should i get some knee warmers?


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## Crandoggler (3 Jan 2016)

The cold will have no impact on your knees. I'd get some warmers just to keep your body temperature up. Sweaty or not!


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jan 2016)

If your knees are getting cold then knee warmers would seem to be a good idea.

I did a web search on this and found no evidence for cold causing knee problems. But the "received wisdom" is that riding in the cold could damage your knees, and some may cite some anecdotal evidence. There may be something in it ... if you have a pre-existing injury then changes in barometric pressure can definitely cause twinges.


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## vickster (3 Jan 2016)

I have dodgy knees and keep them covered below 15 degrees. Then I already have arthritic changes and am not keen on them hurting

Ultimately it's up to you however of course

@Crandoggler when did you qualify in orthopaedics?


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## united4ever (3 Jan 2016)

My knees do not feel cold and no injuries....just preventative thinking really.


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## vickster (3 Jan 2016)

You might want to moisturise the skin on your legs if exposing them to cold, wind and rain


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## Crandoggler (3 Jan 2016)

I'm not, but I'm well aware that climate doesn't play a factor for inducing or curing the condition.


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## vickster (3 Jan 2016)

Crandoggler said:


> I'm not, but I'm well aware that climate doesn't play a factor for inducing or curing the condition.


You have peer-reviewed scientific evidence to back this up this statement of fact and your awareness presumably. If so, please post as I for one would be interested to understand what makes my knees hurt more in the cold


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## zizou (3 Jan 2016)

The cold will have an impact on your knees - I'm not quite sure the temperature range involved but you can damage cartilage / tendons in your knee from riding with them uncovered when its cold (they become less supple and elastic). The problem here is that temperature wise you could still feel alright and you might not notice the damage being done - it is accumulative and might take a few years to suffer the effects.


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## guitarpete247 (3 Jan 2016)

How about lower leg protection (warmers) and roll them down if your knees get too hot.


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## Nigel-YZ1 (3 Jan 2016)

I've been through the mill knee wise but can't say if some of the trouble is through wearing shorts only down to 5 degrees.
What I can say is that I have lot less pain and problems if I wear leg warmers nowadays.

Anecdotal, so take it or leave it.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jan 2016)

zizou said:


> The cold will have an impact on your knees - I'm not quite sure the temperature range involved but you can damage cartilage / tendons in your knee from riding with them uncovered when its cold (they become less supple and elastic). The problem here is that temperature wise you could still feel alright and you might not notice the damage being done - it is accumulative and might take a few years to suffer the effects.


Seriously, can you cite any evidence that cartilage or tendon damage to a healthy knee can be caused by riding in the cold?

I'm not picking an argument, I'd genuinely like to know. I spent some time searching and found nothing. Just stuff I already knew about barometric pressure affecting pre existing conditions.

I concluded that it was just a meme, but my mind remains open to further evidence.

But as far as the OP goes ... try knee warmers. If nothing else, they will warm your knees.


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## Dogtrousers (3 Jan 2016)

vickster said:


> You have peer-reviewed scientific evidence to back this up this statement of fact and your awareness presumably. If so, please post as I for one would be interested to understand what makes my knees hurt more in the cold


You're asking for proof of a negative. No one's going to issue a paper on the *lack* of relationship between cold and injury to previously healthy joints.


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## fossyant (4 Jan 2016)

It's your muscles that suffer in the cold. I sweat like a pig but in cycling specific clothing it's not an issue. I hate cold muscles and it slows me down. Clothing needs to change according to temperature.


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## mjr (4 Jan 2016)

zizou said:


> The cold will have an impact on your knees - I'm not quite sure the temperature range involved but you can damage cartilage / tendons in your knee from riding with them uncovered when its cold (they become less supple and elastic).


I got my clothing wrong on NYD and was too cold over 50 miles. My (already-flawed, crunching) knees spent a day popping painfully. I then overcompensated yesterday and my legs were too hot over 25. I've now a rash on my thighs. Oh well, at least I'm getting exercise!


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## Louch (4 Jan 2016)

Cold seems to affect existing ailments, not create new. Of only doing a short ride, go with shorts if you are more comfortable.i did a ride in December wth sorts and felt fine over 40 mins


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## Wolf616 (4 Jan 2016)

Doesn't cold weather increase the viscosity of synovial fluid (the stuff that lubricates joints such as your knees) and therefore could lead to less efficient motion? Not necessarily saying it'd lead to injury, but yeah if you've got dodgy knees already probably doesn't help. Particularly arthritis!


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## Kajjal (6 Jan 2016)

I found since being over 40 i feel the cold more and now wear bib tights in colder wearing weather. If i don't i can feel it a little in my knees. With bib tights on all is fine.


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## Truth (7 Jan 2016)

I have had knee reconstruction after rupturing my cruciate ligament playing football 15 years ago. I wear shorts all Winter and it has no effect at all on my knees.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

I wear shorts all winter too. But I also wear thermal bib longs over the top.


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## bpsmith (7 Jan 2016)

That's like saying that you don't wearing anything, aside from shorts and thermal bib longs over the top.


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## Tin Pot (7 Jan 2016)

Cover your legs in winter.

Or,

Argue about it on tinterweb.


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## bpsmith (7 Jan 2016)

I would say cover your legs when it's cold, rather than just because it's Winter.

Last week didn't feel at all like Winter. This week is getting more like it, thankfully.


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

Truth said:


> I have had knee reconstruction after rupturing my cruciate ligament playing football 15 years ago. I wear shorts all Winter and it has no effect at all on my knees.



I have historical knee and hip problems due to football, that's why I took up cycling, I've never worn leg/knee warmers and never felt any need to. I am sure footballers worth millions of pounds would be wearing knee warmers if they should.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> I am sure footballers worth millions of pounds would be wearing knee warmers if they should.



They do in training.


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## adscrim (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have historical knee and hip problems due to football, that's why I took up cycling, I've never worn leg/knee warmers and never felt any need to. I am sure footballers worth millions of pounds would be wearing knee warmers if they should.


 
I suspect they do a proper warm up, thus mitigating the 'need' to wear knee warmers - should there be one.


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## Mugshot (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have historical knee and hip problems due to football, that's why I took up cycling, I've never worn leg/knee warmers and never felt any need to. I am sure footballers worth millions of pounds would be wearing knee warmers if they should.


There's a fair few footballers that wear tights nowadays, as a quick google will confirm.




Now, does anybody know how to clear your search history?


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## 400bhp (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have historical knee and hip problems due to football, that's why I took up cycling, I've never worn leg/knee warmers and never felt any need to. I am sure footballers worth millions of pounds would be wearing knee warmers if they should.



And they don't run about as fast as you cycle.

This is the biggest difference in my view, wind chill.


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## samsbike (7 Jan 2016)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I wear 3/4 shorts all year to commute in but also have leg warmers and knee warmers. The latter are on just about the whole year.


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## mjr (7 Jan 2016)

Mugshot said:


> Now, does anybody know how to clear your search history?


In case that's serious: it moved to History: Clear Recent History... in Firefox-based browsers a while ago.

In case that's not: the thing for hanging your banana from your crossbar is NOT a "banana hammock".


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## PK99 (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> They do in training.




as do pro cyclists and before a cold race will have warming oils massaged into their legs and be fully warmed up before venturing out


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

400bhp said:


> And they don't run about as fast as you cycle.
> 
> This is the biggest difference in my view, wind chill.



Wind chill, fair enough. Not that I suffer from that unless going downhill early on a ride! 

I'd never have worn them in a football match and never thought about them for cycling, I do use layers and gloves though. I heat up quick & most are jettisoned after 10/20 minutes.


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## Keith Oates (7 Jan 2016)

I once read that we should cover our knees when cycling if the temperature is 10 Deg. C or less. I don't know who said this but I generally stick with that suggestion as it's fairly good information and like many things, we can get away with it when we are younger but it might catch up with you when you get older.!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

Keith Oates said:


> I once read that we should cover our knees when cycling if the temperature is 10 Deg. C or less



BC's advice is 15/18 deg C.


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## Keith Oates (7 Jan 2016)

[QUOTE BC's advice is 15/18 deg C.[/QUOTE]

Yes but they're a bunch of softy's .!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

Keith Oates said:


> Yes but they're a bunch of softy's .!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Most pro/elite riders must be then....


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## bpsmith (7 Jan 2016)

I am rather perplexed with why the fact that someone earns millions of pounds has anything to do with how the cold affects them.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

bpsmith said:


> I am rather perplexed with why the fact that someone earns millions of pounds has anything to do with how the cold affects them.



I suspect we are rather perplexed because we don't understand what you are talking about?


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## bpsmith (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> I suspect we are rather perplexed because we don't understand what you are talking about?


Then you're dafter than you sound, as you you quoted the post only a page back.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

You mentioned their earnings though - I'm struggling with the relevance of that. Unless you can explain ?


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## Hip Priest (7 Jan 2016)

Footballers don't wear overshoes either. What conclusions are we to draw from this? I suspect it's that cold temperatures affect people running around a pitch less than they affect someone whose feet and legs are in being propelled through the air at reasonably high speeds for long periods.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

Footballers don't wear helmets either, come to think of it....


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## Kajjal (7 Jan 2016)

Very different forms of exercise. Cycling for a few hours for most cyclists is easy enough. Continually playing football for a few hours would finish most off.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

Kajjal said:


> Very different forms of exercise.



Nah, not really...


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## Kajjal (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> Nah, not really...



Nice handle bars


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

bpsmith said:


> I am rather perplexed with why the fact that someone earns millions of pounds has anything to do with how the cold affects them.



They are an industries very expensive "assets", fortunes rest upon their performances, yet they don't wear any "warmers", even in very cold conditions.


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> Footballers don't wear helmets either, come to think of it....



For now...........http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates...ets-top-neurosurgeon-weighs-concussion-risks/


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> yet they don't wear any "warmers", even in very cold conditions



But they do though - there are pictures all over the internet of players wearing thermals in cold conditions - and they all wear longs in training, in similar conditions...


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> But they do though - there are pictures all over the internet of players wearing thermals in cold conditions - and they all wear longs in training, in similar conditions...



But when it counts, in matches, show me a "star" in leg thermals in the UK?

In training in very cold or wet conditions I always wore protective gear, because there is a lot of down time, but in matches there is none.


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## Cuchilo (7 Jan 2016)

Plus if they get cold they just fall over for no reason and someone runs on with a hot water bottle for the little love


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> But when it counts, in matches, show me a "star" in leg thermals in the UK?


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## Cuchilo (7 Jan 2016)

Is that a buff or cravat hes wearing ?


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


>



Who is that, when was that? Is it a "star"? I think you'll accept that 99.9% of footballers in the UK don't wear any warmers if that is the best example.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> Who is that, when was that? Is it a "star"? I think you'll accept that 99.9% of footballers in the UK don't wear any warmers if that is the best example.



I've no idea who it is, as I'm not an Arsenal fan. The relative 'fame' of the guy in the pic is largely irrelevant, other than being a 1st team player (which guarantees a big wage), and wearing thermals - which is all I was asked to provide. And no, I don't accept that 99.9% of footballers don't wear any warmers - base layers, gloves and leggings are routinely worn in cold weather matches. A quick glance at Match of the Day over the next couple of weekends (by which time it should be getting a lot colder) should confirm that.


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## Winnershsaint (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> Footballers don't wear helmets either, come to think of it....


A lot of them are helmets though!


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## MarkF (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> I've no idea who it is, as I'm not an Arsenal fan. The relative 'fame' of the guy in the pic is largely irrelevant, other than being a 1st team player (which guarantees a big wage), and wearing thermals - which is all I was asked to provide. And no, I don't accept that 99.9% of footballers don't wear any warmers - base layers, gloves and leggings are routinely worn in cold weather matches. A quick glance at Match of the Day over the next couple of weekends (by which time it should be getting a lot colder) should confirm that.



Some "star" then.

We were talking about knee's not base layers or gloves. Come back to me with the pics of knee/leg warmers from MOTD as the weather worsens..............and they are not "routinely worn", if they were you would not have searched the net and only come with that pic.

I have coached for over 20 years and can recall the amount of leg/knee warmers I've seen on one finger and I didn't even need that digit


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> I have coached for over 20 years and can recall the amount of leg/knee warmers I've seen on one finger and I didn't even need that digit



That's because you coach the local U9s and not Chelsea. I've already posted a pic of a premiership player in longs, as asked. Statistically, the number of pics available of such players does not necessarily correlate with their use.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> BC's advice is 15/18 deg C.


I had a quick search, and BC seem to admit that it's anecdotal and "traditional". Certainly not science based advice: _"If you adhere to traditional cycling thinking, you should not expose your knees in temperatures below 15˚C." _Linky


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## Hip Priest (7 Jan 2016)

MarkF said:


> Some "star" then.
> 
> We were talking about knee's not base layers or gloves. Come back to me with the pics of knee/leg warmers from MOTD as the weather worsens..............and they are not "routinely worn", if they were you would not have searched the net and only come with that pic.
> 
> I have coached for over 20 years and can recall the amount of leg/knee warmers I've seen on one finger and I didn't even need that digit



Doesn't matter though does it, because football and cycling are not the same.


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## oldroadman (7 Jan 2016)

In my race days, team managers would go mad if you didn't cover up in training under 20c, when you spend 6 hours riding a bit briskly in the group. This was to protect muscles (work better nice and warm, and joints (warmer = smoother). You don't see many ex-pros with knee problems. You do see lots of ex-pro footballers with serious knee issues. this may be caused by the amount of twisting when the foot is anchored, but being cold does not help. So the question is, do you cover up and keep warm/hot (and that includes top half, head) or do you play the "hard man", stay in shorts, and take a risk with your body in older age. Your call - I know what mine was and still is. But then, what do I know, only 30+ years experience.


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## Citius (7 Jan 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> I had a quick search, and BC seem to admit that it's anecdotal and "traditional". Certainly not science based advice: _"If you adhere to traditional cycling thinking, you should not expose your knees in temperatures below 15˚C." _Linky



I doubt if there is any actual 'science' behind any of it - if there was, Russian pensioners would not be jumping through holes in the ice, wearing just a pair of trunks in order to go swimming in the Volga on new year's day.

Nevertheless, BC academy advice remains pretty consistent.


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## Dogtrousers (7 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> I doubt if there is any actual 'science' behind any of it - if there was, Russian pensioners would not be jumping through holes in the ice, wearing just a pair of trunks in order to go swimming in the Volga on new year's day.
> 
> Nevertheless, BC academy advice remains pretty consistent.


 I doubt that Russian pensioners would be put off by a scientific report.

I tend to follow that great scientist, my mum: "Wrap up warm, it's chilly out." 
I've never been an adherent of that other (now discredited) scientist, my nan: "Don't wear your coat indoors, you won't feel the benefit". That's just nonsense.


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## OskarTennisChampion (7 Jan 2016)

Cuchilo said:


> Is that a buff or cravat hes wearing ?



It's a Snood.
Feckin' ridiculous


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## tyred (8 Jan 2016)

Citius said:


> I doubt if there is any actual 'science' behind any of it - if there was, *Russian pensioners would not be jumping through holes in the ice, wearing just a pair of trunks in order to go swimming in the Volga on new year's day.*
> 
> Nevertheless, BC academy advice remains pretty consistent.



Anything is possible with sufficient Smirnoff....


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## e-rider (8 Jan 2016)

united4ever said:


> I am a real sweaty betty when i cycle. First winter of cycling but through december i just did it in shorts, t-shirt and a long sleeve cycle top which i took off after the first ten minutes. Now i know january is colder and so i dont want to get arthritus in a few years. Should i get some knee warmers?


yes, you will cause damage long-term!


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## simongt (10 Jan 2016)

Must admit that I'm in the school of covering the legs / knees when it's about 10 degrees or lower. But my knees are wearing out anyway; result of a misspent earlier life, so keeping them warm is good. Although I have Raynau's so I have always had issues keeping my hands warm in the cold, it always intruges me the number of folk that I see on bikes in the winter months who don't wear gloves.


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