# Distance per day for tandem touring?



## patheticshark (7 Jun 2012)

Hi all

I'm going tandem touring for the first time in July. Vague plan at the moment is to get the ferry to Dieppe, head south, then turn around and come back (probably heading down west of Paris and back up the other side). However! I am a total newbie when it comes to tandemming (I hadn't actually been one on until about 3 days ago) and was hoping someone could advise on reasonable distance per day for touring.

We'll be camping, so will have kit with us (it's good kit though so fairly lightweight), but we're both pretty into cycling (we both did the Dunwich Dynamo there and back last year and will be doing the same again this year; admittedly him much faster than me; and as some of you might remember I used to have a 52 mile commute) and both find 100 miles pretty comfortable on a solo... would the same translate to a fully loaded tandem? I'm not really sure about speed either; I am pretty slow (usually average 15-16mph on longer rides, not loaded but usually on one gear) but he is one of those pesky types who can maintain 21mph over a century, so I'm hoping it will average out to something reasonable.

Also if anyone has any general suggestions for routes etc please feel free to chuck them my way - I know there are tons of threads on touring in France here so I'm going to have a proper look through later, but any tips would be appreciated.

Cheers!
shark


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## Herbie (7 Jun 2012)

patheticshark said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm going tandem touring for the first time in July. Vague plan at the moment is to get the ferry to Dieppe, head south, then turn around and come back (probably heading down west of Paris and back up the other side). However! I am a total newbie when it comes to tandemming (I hadn't actually been one on until about 3 days ago) and was hoping someone could advise on reasonable distance per day for touring.
> 
> ...


 Hello Shark...i think if you can do a 52 mile commute and find 100 miles not too taxing a wee tandem tour should be no bother...however going up hills can be hard work on a tandem.What kind of tandem have you got? and has your stoker got good strong legs?.I think 30 to 50 miles a day would be plenty as you want to stop and enjoy the scenery and stop and smell the flowers as it were...i'm sure you'll have a great tour..enjoy.


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## patheticshark (7 Jun 2012)

It's a Dawes, and I'm guessing it'll be pretty flat as it's France (and we will be avoiding mountains...).

I am stoker! So I'm going to say yes. Captain is far stronger.

Neither of us stop much on usual rides - I prefer getting to the destination and then exploring, so I'm inclined to see if we can do 100 miles a day. Would that be madness?


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## Herbie (7 Jun 2012)

patheticshark said:


> It's a Dawes, and I'm guessing it'll be pretty flat as it's France (and we will be avoiding mountains...).
> 
> I am stoker! So I'm going to say yes. Captain is far stronger.
> 
> Neither of us stop much on usual rides - I prefer getting to the destination and then exploring, so I'm inclined to see if we can do 100 miles a day. Would that be madness?


I'd say thats pretty mad...i've toured in that region a few times and theres plenty of nice places to see on route..i wouldn't want to be riding eyeballs out for a hundred miles a day! i'd be knackered at the destination and not enjoy it so much but each to their own eh  nice choice of tandem by the way...good luck


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## srw (8 Jun 2012)

At 15-16mph you're not slow! I'm usually up for about 14mph on a solo bike, and will do 12mph on the touring tandem and perhaps 13 on the fast tandem.

You may well be slower on a Dawes tandem than on a solo road bike - tandems in general aren't usually built for speed, and you may find that a tandem from a generic bike manufacturer rather than a tandem specialist is much less well attuned to riding than the equivalent Dawes solo bike.

Around France a couple of years ago we averaged 65 miles a day (see links). That was with luggage, but not tents. For us, that's about right. 

You need to work quite hard in France to avoid hills - the north of France in particular around (err) Dieppe is rather corrugated, although by going south you're picking the easier direction.


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## patheticshark (8 Jun 2012)

Excellent, will have a browse through. Cheers! I've mapped a few tentative routes and they look pretty flat, so will aim to keep with them. I'm quite keen to do the Canal du Midi if possible.

I think we're going to have to do a couple of long rides fully loaded over here to work it out. Does anyone know of anyone who's done greater per day distances while tandem touring? I still like the idea of attempting something a bit mad.


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## CopperBrompton (13 Jun 2012)

I did a London to Paris via Dieppe recently, and while there are flattish bits, it's mostly either rolling or hilly. Then again, I'm a London & Essex cyclist, so I count the Angel as a hill. :-)


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## alans (15 Jun 2012)

I'd be content to do 60 miles a day on a tandem loaded with camping kit.When cycle camping I have a quality over quantity attitude to progress.


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## Crackle (15 Jun 2012)

patheticshark said:


> Excellent, will have a browse through. Cheers! I've mapped a few tentative routes and they look pretty flat, so will aim to keep with them. I'm quite keen to do the Canal du Midi if possible.
> 
> I think we're going to have to do a couple of long rides fully loaded over here to work it out. Does anyone know of anyone who's done greater per day distances while tandem touring? *I still like the idea of attempting something a bit mad*.


 
You, do something a bit mad, never.

Sorry, I have nothing to add other than that and good to see you posting again, albeit briefly.


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## growingvegetables (15 Jun 2012)

On the tandem, I'm happy planning on 70 a day. Used to plan on a maximum of 50 miles a day - but that was for the sake of the teenaged kids I had in tow . I was good for a good few miles further.

And tandems are great for steaming up hills. Think about it, they don't weigh that much more than a single bike (nowhere near double) - and you've got double the pushing power? And higher gears for powering down into a good fast cruise.


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## willem (16 Jun 2012)

From my experience I think with a tandem you could be 10-20% faster than with an equivalent solo bike, as long as it flat. Climbing you could easily be 20% slower. So using the tandem will accentuate the terrain.
Willem


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## biggs682 (16 Jun 2012)

i try and keep around the 12 - 13 mph area on the tandem as a min on the flat and who knows what on the hills .

tandem riding is more about social than distance riding so enjoy


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## growingvegetables (16 Jun 2012)

willem said:


> Climbing you could easily be 20% slower.


Hmmmmm -

Something tells me some Lycra-clad roadies I've seen in my mirror, legs a-whirring, lungs a-busting, hearts a-breaking, might have some very choice responses to that? Especially as they'd been passed, going uphill, by a guy in his 50's with a young teenage daughter stoking, laden with tent and sleeping bags and panniers front and back, wearing jeans, T-shirts, and walking boots.

For three guys in York a few years ago, I have reprimanded my (then 13-year old) daughter for pulling a book out of her shoulder bag and very obviously making a play of reading the latest Harry Potter, as they tried (and failed) to keep up! That was rubbing it in! [But worth it ]


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## CopperBrompton (17 Jun 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> Something tells me some Lycra-clad roadies I've seen in my mirror, legs a-whirring, lungs a-busting, hearts a-breaking, might have some very choice responses to that?


I'd say that's unusual, though. Trikes are slow uphill (heavy, and of course you can't use your weight on the pedals), and when I've done the big group rides usually the only things I overtake uphill are pedestrians and tandems.


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## HelenD123 (17 Jun 2012)

I met these guys going across Canada on a tandem and they were doing some serious distances a day. He was a PE teacher and she was very fit as well. Have a read.


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## srw (17 Jun 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> And tandems are great for steaming up hills. Think about it, they don't weigh that much more than a single bike (nowhere near double) - and you've got double the pushing power? And higher gears for powering down into a good fast cruise.


It depends on the tandem. One of ours is easily double the weight of a touring bike - and we're always the slowest up the hills.

The other is a stone lighter. Over the last couple of days we've pulled away from riders, and overtaken them uphill - and not just with the benefit of momentum, either.


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## swansonj (18 Jun 2012)

I hesitate to contribute as my last tandem tour was sixteen years (the age of my elder daughter plus six months) ago, so i feel a slight imposter. But another factor is how easily matched the two of you are in things like cadence, choice of gears, frequency of changing gears, willingness to spurt rather than change gear, etc. You will have to compromise on these which means you will each not be cycling at your optimum. That may not be a big problem, but if you have become very finely tuned to one style of cycling, being forced to change it can make the miles more tiring.


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## Herbie (23 Jun 2012)

growingvegetables said:


> Hmmmmm -
> 
> Something tells me some Lycra-clad roadies I've seen in my mirror, legs a-whirring, lungs a-busting, hearts a-breaking, might have some very choice responses to that? Especially as they'd been passed, going uphill, by a guy in his 50's with a young teenage daughter stoking, laden with tent and sleeping bags and panniers front and back, wearing jeans, T-shirts, and walking boots.
> 
> For three guys in York a few years ago, I have reprimanded my (then 13-year old) daughter for pulling a book out of her shoulder bag and very obviously making a play of reading the latest Harry Potter, as they tried (and failed) to keep up! That was rubbing it in! [But worth it ]





swansonj said:


> I hesitate to contribute as my last tandem tour was sixteen years (the age of my elder daughter plus six months) ago, so i feel a slight imposter. But another factor is how easily matched the two of you are in things like cadence, choice of gears, frequency of changing gears, willingness to spurt rather than change gear, etc. You will have to compromise on these which means you will each not be cycling at your optimum. That may not be a big problem, but if you have become very finely tuned to one style of cycling, being forced to change it can make the miles more tiring.


 
THATS WHAT I CALL SHOWING OFF...COOL


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## patheticshark (25 Jun 2012)

ooh loads of replies! sorry, I am rubbish at remembering to check back. Thanks everyone.

I have been progressing in my tandem expertise! We managed to make it to the Chilterns with camping gear and then back the next day, only 50 miles each way but it was pretty easy (especially on the way back as it was downhill). We managed to get up a 24% hill without dying and navigate the entire of London (I live south east, the Chilterns are north west of London) without killing anyone so I am feeling optimistic! Think it was about 16mph so that'll do (I am hoping rural France will be a little less congested than central London). We actually seem to be pretty well matched, though I do forget to put effort in at times and have to be prodded; but when I do we can hit 30mph on the flat without too much difficulty. We both spend a lot of time riding fixed on stupid grindy gears (him 84", me 81") which probably helps.

I have a vague itinerary - have changed plans slightly to head straight down through the flat bits of France as far as possible, somehow get over the Pyrenees and then get the ferry back from Santander, but I am prepared to chuck the itinerary out of the window (well, apart from the getting to Santander bit) and see how we get on - from the sound of things we'll be OK without booking campsites, and failing that I'm prepared to risk a bit of wild camping. So going to stick with the mad 100 miles a day plan but with a few rest days factored in, then we can lower the mileage if need be (or up it...).

Now I just have to do something about the fact that I have no maps, I can't remember any French or Spanish and I am extremely disorganised. Hmmmmm.


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## growingvegetables (26 Jun 2012)

patheticshark said:


> when I do we can hit 30mph on the flat without too much difficulty.


30 mph ; on the flat ; WITHOUT TOO MUCH DIFFICULTY . Hmmm - 100 miles in 3 and a bit hours; arrive at your campsite in time for breakfast 


Seriously though - sounds like you're going to have a ball; enjoy!


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## srw (26 Jun 2012)

In the right conditions (basically flat, undulating terrain, or slight uphill or downhill, no cross-wind), tandems can be several mph faster than solo bikes. You get two engines, a lighter bike than two solos, and only one lot of wind resistance. On our test ride on our Santana we got up to 20mph with no difficulty - and neither of us is exactly a speed merchant; I've never got up to 20 on the flat on my Van Nic, and I'm probably the faster rider at the moment.

Cross-winds kill tandem speed because you have to put so much effort into controlling the bike. Long uphills are also a drag, but short ups are great because you get so much momentum going down - as long as you're willing and able to let the speed build up.


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## patheticshark (2 Jul 2012)

Tandems are fun! We did our second ride; the Dunwich Dynamo, with full camping gear (sleeping mats, bags, pillows etc). 113 miles in six hours overall, 19.1mph average. It's pretty good, this tandem touring business.


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## srw (2 Jul 2012)

patheticshark said:


> Tandems are fun! We did our second ride; the Dunwich Dynamo, with full camping gear (sleeping mats, bags, pillows etc). 113 miles in six hours overall, 19.1mph average. It's pretty good, this tandem touring business.


 
Where's the "violent dislike" button?!?!?!?!

19.1mph over six hours with full camping kit on only your second ride is simply inhuman! I think you should aim for 120 mile days in France.


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## patheticshark (2 Jul 2012)

Heh. It is a really flat ride and we had a tailwind, but yeah, quite pleased with how well (i.e. quickly) it went. The ride back was a bit slower but overall feeling much more confident about the 100 miles a day plan.


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## srw (2 Jul 2012)

patheticshark said:


> The ride back


 
*quietly starts weeping*


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## patheticshark (26 Aug 2012)

I finally got around to doing my ride report, if anyone's interested. It's mainly photos of food.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/frain


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## biggs682 (26 Aug 2012)

tandems are fun too true


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## srw (27 Aug 2012)

patheticshark said:


> I finally got around to doing my ride report, if anyone's interested. It's mainly photos of food.
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/frain


A fantastic write-up, which illustrates the fun you must have had. You're not really human, are you? 100 mile fully loaded days on a tandem in hilly country is impressive.


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## mcr (28 Aug 2012)

patheticshark said:


> I finally got around to doing my ride report, if anyone's interested. It's mainly photos of food.
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/frain


 
I love the way your 'rest days' are far longer than my travelling days!


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## patheticshark (17 Jun 2013)

Me again! So this time we're doing London to Munich and back via Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, France. In two weeks. Camping. Hurrah! Anyone been to, er, any of those countries and have any recommendations? (Ideally for towns to cycle through or campsites to stay at, rather than anywhere that requires time off the bike, seeing as I can't get enough time off work to do this in a particularly leisurely fashion).

An approximation of a route is here, but we'll be taking pages of an atlas and making it up as we go along.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/2700249


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## mcr (18 Jun 2013)

I've done a few bits of your proposed route and can recommend:

Follow the scenic Saar river valley from near the Luxembourg/German border to Saarbrucken and then there're plenty of nice ways to get across the Pfalzerwald (Palatine Forest) into the Rhine valley - the one via picturesque Wissembourg was particularly quiet. I can vouch for the Murgtal route as a way of crossing the Black Forest towards Stuttgart (though it may be a bit further south than you want).

From Munich, you might want to head SW to Fussen and see Neuschwanstein castle - even if from the valley bottom it's still a stunning sight; then you've got some really lumpy terrain to get to the Bodensee (Lake Constance).

Unless you're into ticking off countries, I'd avoid Liechtenstein unless you've got a stash of money there - nothing but banks and posh hotels and no different scenically from surrounding Switzerland and Austria. If you do go there, however, it does give you access to the highly scenic (and flat) Walensee valley route back towards Zurich and the Rhein as an alternative to the Bodensee shoreline route.

The Rhine valley between Konstanz and Basel is especially nice, with a choice of cycling on the Swiss or German sides.

See my CrazyGuy write-ups linked from my sig for more.


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## patheticshark (18 Jun 2013)

Thank you so much - enormously useful and will take an in depth look at the write ups. Think we will skip Liechtenstein; the Bodensee route sounds too good to miss.


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## steveindenmark (18 Jun 2013)

I would not "Guess" that anywhere is flat. In my experince it is not flat and there is always a head wind. And that is regardless of were you are.

Steve


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## Biscuit (1 Jul 2013)

I've just come back from Touring the Netherlands. I can thouroughly recommend this for accomodation anywhere in the Netherlands, Belgium and parts of Germany.

http://www.vriendenopdefiets.nl/en/

It's only 8 euros to join and all accomodation is 19 euros per person per night. Camping is cheaper for two of you I would think. But it's an option if you're ever stuck - I used both Camping and Vrienden Op de Fiets. Some awesome places to stay.


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## patheticshark (29 Jul 2013)

steveindenmark said:


> I would not "Guess" that anywhere is flat. In my experince it is not flat and there is always a head wind. And that is regardless of were you are.
> 
> Steve


 
It was definitely flat. Germany wasn't.

Ride report for those interested in such things:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/tandemtimetwo


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## srw (29 Jul 2013)

Lovely read, thanks!

I did like your encounters with the race and the club run. I'm disappointed you didn't TT with the panniers still on the bike - surely after an afternoon in the pub that must have appealed?


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## patheticshark (29 Jul 2013)

I think it might have brought down our 26mph average somewhat.
Thanks! I think the club run liked it too:


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## CopperBrompton (29 Jul 2013)

Love it :-)


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