# Petition for faster E-bikes



## rogersDrogers (24 Dec 2020)

Hello,
This is be my first post on a forum!
I’m essentially hoping to encourage people to sign a petition for the government to consider increasing the speed of an E-bike or peddle assisted bike from 16 mph to 20 mph.
16mph is fine once you reach built up areas however 16mph feels very slow on A roads where cars pass at 40 to 50 mph!
Petition link shared below:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/332333


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## Drago (24 Dec 2020)

Nope, sorry. With respect to your good self I won't be signing that.

If you want a faster ebike you can already buy them, provided you have the rewqisite insurance, licence, etc. I don't see why an electric moped (for thats what they are in law) should be treated any less leniently in that regard than petrol mopeds.

And then there's the other problem. Our driving licence tiers and vehicle classes are harmonised with the EU. It would require the UK withdrawing from a treaty, a change in primary legislation, and then specific statute changes, before it could be enacted - that won't happen because it then wouldn't be compliant anywhere else in georgraphical europe, and the whole licence harmonisation system starts to break down, and UK citizens then get stitched when we want to drive abroad.

The whole point of ebikes is that they are legally and in capability well distanced from motor vehicles. I can see no reason not to keep it that way, and lots of practical and legal reasons why it shouldn't.

If you want to do 20 on a roads use the pedals like every other cyclist has to. Its actually not all that difficult. Ironically, on a decent normal bicycle youll find it a lot easier riding at 20 without all the excess weight of an ebike to tow about - thats exactly what I do when riding faster routes, and leave the ebike at home.


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## DCLane (24 Dec 2020)

A no from me as well. The speed is fine at present; if you want to go faster get an electric moped or motorbike.


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## ianrauk (24 Dec 2020)

Nope. Current restricted speed is enough and being in London I can tell you that the majority of ebikes are illegally derestricted anyway.

As someone else has said, want to go faster, then get a moped.


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## Drago (24 Dec 2020)

Aside from the above, the petition wording is misleading. It is not commonly accepted that the ebike assistance limit is putting people off.

Just the opposite - the introdction of ebike, complete with their 15.5 mph assistance limit, has seen the biggest move away from private cars and public transport since WW2. The Covid situation has really given this some momentum and demand is now so high that many models are difficult to source.

I'm sure there are some who complain, but the wording of the petition is, at best, a serious exaggeration in terms of people being put off buying ebikes. The government aren stupid (well, youd like to think they aren't...) and they know this. Even if I were to agree with the matter I still could not sign a petition with such disingenuous wording,


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## T.M.H.N.E.T (24 Dec 2020)

Nope


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## fossyant (24 Dec 2020)

Nope from me too. Stupid idea. Ebiked MTB uphill at 15 MPH is a farkin menace at times, even for relatively fit riders. They come out of no-where

I have to keep fit to do 20 mph, and that means lots of riding - beginners doing 20 and mixing with experienced cyclists at that speed, no ta.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Dec 2020)

Why not campaign to reduce speed limits for motorised vehicles in built up areas? That’s be a much better option.


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## Sharky (24 Dec 2020)

No from me as well. 
There is not much difference between 16 mph and 20 mph, compared to cars traveling at 60 mph. Rather than making it safer, it could easily put the cyclist at risk, as a motorist would not expect a bike to be traveling at that speed up hill and could easily miss judge the distance an e-cyclist would be covering, particularly at turnings, roundabouts etc.


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## Electric_Andy (24 Dec 2020)

If anything I'd like to see the power limit increased from 250W to 500W but retain the 15mph cut-off. Then you can realistically do 15mph up a steep hill. But raising the speed limit to 20mph is pointless. Up a hill you'd be hard pushed to maintain that without hard pedalling. On the flat you can exceed the cut-off by pedalling anyway. And going 5mph faster on an A road will have zero impact on safety.


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## sheddy (24 Dec 2020)

Nope.
If you want to go faster find a (down) hill.


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## Tigerbiten (25 Dec 2020)

Another no.
15 mph is around the speed that wind resistance starts to ramp up badly.
So to go 5 mph faster takes roughly double the energy.
The major bugbear with most e-bikes is the range, not the speed.
So why cut cut the range just to go a bit faster.
Not very "green".

Luck ............


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## Stephenite (25 Dec 2020)

No.

With great power comes great responsibility... and even greater insurance fees and taxation, etc. It was Spidermans uncle wot said it.


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## beepbeep (25 Dec 2020)

I have various road bikes, a couple of mountain bikes and an ebike....I use the ebike ( mountain bike style ) on my holidays as general transport instead of the car ....15mph is fast enough for the electric power...any faster and I just pedal more..after all isn't that what cycles are for ?

Any faster ??? get a motorcycle.


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## Drago (25 Dec 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> If anything I'd like to see the power limit increased from 250W to 500W but retain the 15mph cut-off. Then you can realistically do 15mph up a steep hill. But raising the speed limit to 20mph is pointless. Up a hill you'd be hard pushed to maintain that without hard pedalling. On the flat you can exceed the cut-off by pedalling anyway. And going 5mph faster on an A road will have zero impact on safety.


Im a shade under 19 stones weight and can do 15mph up a steep hill on my ebike.


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## Teamfixed (25 Dec 2020)

No. 
I don't own an ebike.
Surely if you want to go faster you would get a small moped. Putting a powered vehicle that is faster than current ebikes in unregulated, uninsured hands would be crazy. Tbh I think you are asking this in the wrong place.


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## Venod (25 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> Im a shade under 19 stones weight



I would have to grow an extra set of limbs to get up 19 stones.


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## steveindenmark (25 Dec 2020)

You can already buy 45kph electric bikes.


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## iandg (25 Dec 2020)

Another no - my wife already drops me uphill on her 15mph limited e-bike. Why would I want her to go faster?


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## fossyant (25 Dec 2020)

steveindenmark said:


> You can already buy 45kph electric bikes.



And the rest. Got buzzed by an idiot on one the other day. Doing at least 40 mph and he whizzed past me in my car.


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## Sharky (25 Dec 2020)

Seems like history is repeating itself. Back in the 50's, mopeds were just power assisted cycles. Even the "comic" aka Cycling Weekly was called Cycling and Mopeds. I was young then, but remember reading my dad's copies.

Time passed and mopeds evolved and the two forms of transport diverged and cycling went back to human powered only. E BIKES will find their own niche as a form of regulated transport and cycling will return to human powered only.


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## furball (25 Dec 2020)

I can't see anyone who cycles for the sheer enjoyment and benefits that cycling brings having any interest in signing this petition (as proven by the responses so far). If a keen cyclist choses to move on to an ebike it's usually for the reason of adding a bit of assistance rather than to keep up with traffic.
I would suggest if the OP has the ability, ditch the ebike and get a proper bike and learn to cycle in traffic.


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## FishFright (25 Dec 2020)

Nope , it's perfectly fine at 15.5. If you want to go faster then get fit or buy a moped.


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## Oldhippy (25 Dec 2020)

As above.


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## Chris S (25 Dec 2020)

Reduce the maximum speed to 10mph. Then only people who actually need to ride e-bikes will ride them.


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## Ridgeway (25 Dec 2020)

We have them here as Steve mentioned, max limit is 45kmh but for those you need to have a rear license plate, pay road tax and have insurance on the them, there’s also some rules on the helmet type required, seems reasonable to me.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Dec 2020)

Ridgeway said:


> We have them here as Steve mentioned, max limit is 45kmh but for those you need to have a rear license plate, pay road tax and have insurance on the them, there’s also some rules on the helmet type required, seems reasonable to me.



Which is pretty close to the UK legal definition of a moped.


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## cougie uk (25 Dec 2020)

15.5 to 20 makes such little difference. I'm fine with the limit as it is.


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## Fab Foodie (26 Dec 2020)

No


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## figbat (26 Dec 2020)

You can already perfectly legally ride an e-bike at over 15.5 mph - as the petition points out.

But this...


> Additionally, there are a large number of bikes in the UK that have bypassed or do not conform to the current legislation. Increasing it would prevent much faster bicycles from making their way onto the roads and paths.


...is nonsense. How does raising the legal assisted speed “prevent much faster bicycles from making their way into the roads and paths”? The much faster bikes that are already being illegally used will still be illegally used since 20mph isn’t going to satisfy many who choose to take this route, especially those on total propulsion models.


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## further (26 Dec 2020)

Chris S said:


> Reduce the maximum speed to 10mph. Then only people who actually need to ride e-bikes will ride them.


This


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## ebikeerwidnes (26 Dec 2020)

What - another one???
This was done in a petition last year - got a lot of publicity on some ebike web sites - and very little support.

I know there are a lot of people who think they should be able to go faster with power assistance - but the majority seem to think 15.5 mph is just fine

The current laws give us huge advantages - we are considered as normal unpowered bike so can use cycle paths, tracks and anywhere else a bike is allowed - if you start making them more powerful and faster (with assistance) then sdome or all of these advantages will start to get whittled away.
It will only need one accident where a 'new normal' ebike doing 20 hits someone and the Daily Fail - and others - will have a easy campaign about how dangerous they are. Next thing we end up having extra regulations or registration or something

Keep things as they are - if you want to go faster and have the skills to do it then peddle faster


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## gbb (26 Dec 2020)

As an ebike rider out of necessity and permanently nowadays, it's a no from me.
I have no idea how the 25kph / 15 mph was originally arrived at, but it seems entirely sensible to me if you consider that is the speed many people are capable of cycling at. So the extension of that is that is around the speed the general public, peds, drivers, can reasonably expect a cycle to be travelling at.
Increase those speeds and all of a sudden, a lifetime worth of experience for everyone is thrown out the window. Reaction times, expectations of speed are all thrown in the air.
(Some) Ebikers have to stop thinking selfishly and consider their impact on everyone else if you increase the speed.


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## kynikos (27 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> And then there's the other problem. Our driving licence tiers and vehicle classes are harmonised with the EU. It would require the UK withdrawing from a treaty, a change in primary legislation, and then specific statute changes, before it could be enacted - that won't happen because it then wouldn't be compliant anywhere else in georgraphical europe, and the whole licence harmonisation system starts to break down, and UK citizens then get stitched when we want to drive abroad.


Surely not - as of 1 January we'll be able to make our own rules and the rest of the world will follow?


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## beepbeep (27 Dec 2020)

I took my MTB ebike to an MTB event last year...ebikes were permitted but the organisers were checking all ebikes to make sure they were road legal ...ebikes ( peddles ) and not S-Pedelecs ( those that could exceed 15mph assisted )


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## ebikeerwidnes (27 Dec 2020)

beepbeep said:


> I took my MTB ebike to an MTB event last year...ebikes were permitted but the organisers were checking all ebikes to make sure they were road legal ...ebikes ( peddles ) and not S-Pedelecs ( those that could exceed 15mph assisted )


Out of interest - How did they check??


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## stoatsngroats (27 Dec 2020)

No from me too, I don’t see the point tbh. We have used ebikes restricted to 15.5mph and have managed cycle faster, so really they’re not restricted to 15.5mph as a maximum.
With the likely increase in use of e scooters too, I think we’re approaching serious accident issues as it is.


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## oldworld (27 Dec 2020)

A no from me. I'd rather a petition to increase the battery capacity.


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## ebikeerwidnes (27 Dec 2020)

oldworld said:


> A no from me. I'd rather a petition to increase the battery capacity.


Have I missed something - is battery capacity limited??
or am I misunderstanding


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## beepbeep (27 Dec 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Out of interest - How did they check??


ebikes have an approval mark on the frame and most UK ebikes use the Bosch / Yamaha / Shimano motors...Some were turning up with MASSIVE hub motors claiming they were only 250w motors ( yeah right ) and large frame mounted batteries...obvious !! I appreciate that the afore mentioned systems can be hacked to provide more were but bikes such as the STEALTH BOMBER with its mega wattage motors that can achieve speeds in excess of 60 mph are really obvious and were turned away


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## Saluki (27 Dec 2020)

No. Sorry.
The ex has an ebike and he is a menace at the best of times. The council ebikes here whizz about with novice riders on and They are dangerous- the novice riders, not the bikes - so 5mph would be madness.

if you want to do 20mph, work on your fitness. 20mph is not difficult.


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## snorri (27 Dec 2020)

No, no, no, for all of the reasons posted above.


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## ebikeerwidnes (27 Dec 2020)

Funny thing - ebike forums seem to be full of posts where people shout about how important it is that they can put a dongle on their ebike - or otherwise overcome the restrictions
but when someone actually tries to do something to increase it legally it turns out that loads of people are happy with things how they are.
As usual - people that are noticed are the ones that shout about things - then when you have a vote (or similar) then you find all the people who haven't been shouting..
It is a pity that there is not a way of specifically saying that you disagree with a petition rather than just sign it or not sign it


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## Drago (27 Dec 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Out of interest - How did they check??


The mandatory sticker or plate on the motor is a big giveaway, and if you can follow a wire from one end to another then you'll be able spot a dongle.


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## shep (27 Dec 2020)

rogersDrogers said:


> Hello,
> This is be my first post on a forum!
> I’m essentially hoping to encourage people to sign a petition for the government to consider increasing the speed of an E-bike or peddle assisted bike from 16 mph to 20 mph.
> 16mph is fine once you reach built up areas however 16mph feels very slow on A roads where cars pass at 40 to 50 mph!
> ...


Good luck with that one!


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## Notafettler (27 Dec 2020)

No
No
No
No
Unnecessary. 
And an increase from 16 to 20mph? How will that make you feel better about cars passing at 40-50mph.


rogersDrogers said:


> 16mph is fine once you reach built up areas



Are you suggesting that cyclist will reduce there speed to 16 mph once they reach built up areas?


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## Notafettler (27 Dec 2020)

Electric_Andy said:


> If anything I'd like to see the power limit increased from 250W to 500W but retain the 15mph cut-off.



Sounds good to me. Very helpful when I am pulling a trailer. Struggling at 4mph on steep hills pulling a heavy trailer.



Drago said:


> Im a shade under 19 stones weight and can do 15mph up a steep hill on my ebike.



There are different definitions of steep hills. No doubt you can do it carrying a Bergen full of wet sand and Milan missile on your back. Alas I can't and it appears that neither can @Electric_Andy!


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## ebikeerwidnes (27 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> The mandatory sticker or plate on the motor is a big giveaway, and if you can follow a wire from one end to another then you'll be able spot a dongle.


OK - thanks
So basically they checked fro the sticker - and then looked for a dongle that might be over-riding it

I do wonder about how easy it would be to but a bigger motor in and just put a forged sticker on - or swap a motor over and leave the sticker for the original one. I guess a proper bike person would probably spot that but I wonder about the Police checking things.


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## Phaeton (27 Dec 2020)

As an eBike owner it's another No from me,


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## marzjennings (27 Dec 2020)

If you want to legally ride a 20mph ebike move the the US where that's the limit. On our local mountain bike trails I've seen a few folks riding mtb's capable of 20mph, and to be honest they can't handle the extra power. There's been a couple of nasty crashes on ebikes where I think riders are just riding too fast for the trail.


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## Bazzer (27 Dec 2020)

Nope from me too.
IMO the solution is not to artificially increase the speed of cyclists, but to make the roads safer for cyclists.


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## DRM (27 Dec 2020)

That went well then...
No from me too, if you want to go faster, pedal it, the clues in the name electrically assisted, not a motor bike


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## gbb (27 Dec 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> Funny thing -........
> As usual - people that are noticed are the ones that shout about things - then when you have a vote (or similar) then you find all the people who haven't been shouting..
> ......


A bit like News and current affairs then...delve in there and youd think the entire universe was left wing. But of course, when it comes to voting, you find all the people who havnt been shouting.


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## Drago (28 Dec 2020)

Sadly, I don't do Faecesbook, because It a grown up.

You will note that I was very careful not to mention any political movement, viewpoint or party, as I wanted to keep my comments about being lectured to and the reaction of the silent majority, and not about politics. Looking at the puny numbers that have failed to vote for this proposition it seems the silent cycling majority are making their opinion known quite clearly.


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2020)

Chris S said:


> Reduce the maximum speed to 10mph. Then only people who actually need to ride e-bikes will ride them.


And who are these people who actually need to ride an e-bike, do you have a definitive list?


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## MontyVeda (28 Dec 2020)

Can we increase the max speed of mobility scooters whilst we're at it?


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## classic33 (28 Dec 2020)

MontyVeda said:


> Can we increase the max speed of mobility scooters whilst we're at it?


How much faster do you want to go!!
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/7/10925236/mobility-scooter-speed-guinness-record


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## Drago (28 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> And who are these people who actually need to ride an e-bike, do you have a definitive list?


I'll start.

1. Lazy people serving a driving ban.


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## stoatsngroats (28 Dec 2020)

2. Anyone who wouldn’t cycle otherwise.


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## ebikeerwidnes (28 Dec 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> 2. Anyone who wouldn’t cycle otherwise.


That is the main point


also include people who have some kind of problem - like asthma
I wouldn't be happy riding a normal bike more than 10 miles from home in case I don't have the breath left to get home
Not happened often - but when it does I can just put the bike in Turbo and go home on max assist

Also - people who want to commute into work but can't afford to get there sweaty - like teachers like what I was


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## stoatsngroats (28 Dec 2020)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> That is the main point


Any of whom could probably manage at the current maximum speed.


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## ebikeerwidnes (28 Dec 2020)

stoatsngroats said:


> Any of whom could probably manage at the current maximum speed.


Most casual cyclists I come across are going slower than I am on my ebike - they are probably doing 10-13 mph on mountain bikes or hybrids

I pretty much only get passed by people riding proper road bikes and wearing Lycra and looking like they ride most days.
Sometime I come across fitter people on mountain.hybrid bike - but it is rare - at least round here - YMMV


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## Phaeton (28 Dec 2020)

My average speed is 9mph, possibly 10 on a good dfay


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## Notafettler (28 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> My average speed is 9mph, possibly 10 on a good dfay


My average speed is decided by the dog. She jogs around the same speed as you. A very good excuse for me to cycle at the same speed.


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## Notafettler (28 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> And who are these people who actually need to ride an e-bike, do you have a definitive list?


People who use it to pull a trailer full of firewood or a dog and 14 pheasants. Etc


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## Sharky (28 Dec 2020)

I wonder if the OP's views have changed since he started the thread. Don't think he has been back to read any of them yet!


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## Drago (28 Dec 2020)

My average speed is slower on my ebike, necuade ofmI don't slow down I don't drop below 15.5 and don't get any assistance. And im a big heavy lump in my 50's, not this Lance Wighoy bloke.


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## snorri (28 Dec 2020)

Drago said:


> slower on my ebike, necuade ofmI don't slow down


Reverting to your native language in mid sentence is a clear indication of raised blood pressure. 
You're getting much too excited about this.


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## Scoosh (29 Dec 2020)

MOD NOTE:
Some posts have been Deleted, as this is not in the NACA part of the forum, so let's keep politics out of it, please.


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## Notafettler (29 Dec 2020)

gbb said:


> I have no idea how the 25kph / 15 mph was originally arrived at


EU decision 25kmh equals 15.5mph. I doubt we had to follow it but the manufacturers did hence we fell in behind it.


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## Notafettler (29 Dec 2020)

Sharky said:


> I wonder if the OP's views have changed since he started the thread. Don't think he has been back to read any of them yet!


He probably has been back to read it and decided he is wasting his time. Probably better of going to pedelecs.co.uk!!
And I don't think it follows he will get a lot of supporters there either.


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## ebikeerwidnes (30 Dec 2020)

Notafettler said:


> He probably has been back to read it and decided he is wasting his time. Probably better of going to pedelecs.co.uk!!
> And I don't think it follows he will get a lot of supporters there either.


Yeah - been there - doesn't look good for him

funny - it was the same with the last one that was pretty much the same
wonder why this one has the same reaction????????

look like maybe - just maybe - the shouty people who want to go faster are maybe not the majority

they talk a lot more - but only their supporters reply


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## raleighnut (30 Dec 2020)

It's a nope from me too.


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## gbb (30 Dec 2020)

Notafettler said:


> EU decision 25kmh equals 15.5mph. I doubt we had to follow it but the manufacturers did hence we fell in behind it.


Yebbut, what actually drove the decision for 25 kph ? It'd be interesting to know.
Could be a calculated trade off by boffins, speed vs battery drain and range, finding a mid point that works best.
Could be something along the lines of my argument, accepted general speed a cyclist is generally expected to be travelling at.
It could be arbitrary, just a figure some faceless technocrat thought of ?

We will probably never know but it might re-inforce the argument that 15.5 mph is just about right and proper.


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## Notafettler (30 Dec 2020)

gbb said:


> Yebbut, what actually drove the decision for 25 kph ?


I believe it was a one euro coin.


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## classic33 (31 Dec 2020)

gbb said:


> Yebbut, what actually drove the decision for 25 kph ? It'd be interesting to know.
> Could be a calculated trade off by boffins, speed vs battery drain and range, finding a mid point that works best.
> Could be something along the lines of my argument, accepted general speed a cyclist is generally expected to be travelling at.
> It could be arbitrary, just a figure some faceless technocrat thought of ?
> ...


Standardisation of different laws within member countries. 25kph being the most commonly applied speed limit in member countries.


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## Phaeton (31 Dec 2020)

gbb said:


> Yebbut, what actually drove the decision for 25 kph ? It'd be interesting to know.


You could say the same about 30mph, 60mph & 70mph being the standards for motor vehicles on our roads, take the 70mph for motorways & dual carriageways, it was originally unlimited, then in early 1970's it was made 70mph, looking at the advancement of braking systems & passenger safety it's logical it should now be much higher.


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## Slick (31 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> You could say the same about 30mph, 60mph & 70mph being the standards for motor vehicles on our roads, take the 70mph for motorways & dual carriageways, it was originally unlimited, then in early 1970's it was made 70mph, looking at the advancement of braking systems & passenger safety it's logical it should now be much higher.


Reaction times of the average human hasn't changed and it's now widely accepted that 30mph is too high in some settings.


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## Phaeton (31 Dec 2020)

Slick said:


> Reaction times of the average human hasn't changed and it's now widely accepted that 30mph is too high in some settings.


But it is still illogical, given as you say the reaction time hasn't changed, a modern vehicle can still stop in 1/2 the distance


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## Slick (31 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But it is still illogical, given as you say the reaction time hasn't changed, a modern vehicle can still stop in 1/2 the distance


Probably straying a bit off topic but according to a road safety charity the reaction times quoted in the highway code have been underestimated for years and stopping distances should be increased. There are other factors to consider as well like volume of traffic and distractions within a modern vehicle.


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## Phaeton (31 Dec 2020)

Slick said:


> Probably straying a bit off topic but according to a road safety charity the reaction times quoted in the highway code have been underestimated for years and stopping distances should be increased. There are other factors to consider as well like volume of traffic and distractions within a modern vehicle.


I'm not arguing with you over the semantics & I would love to see speeds dropped in many places, but just like the E-Bike they are just an arbitrary number


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## Slick (31 Dec 2020)

I wasn't arguing.


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## raleighnut (31 Dec 2020)

Phaeton said:


> But it is still illogical, given as you say the reaction time hasn't changed, a modern vehicle can still stop in 1/2 the distance


Sadly they can now get to 30mph in a quarter of the time it took an old Cortina, Moggy Thou, Viva etc in fact some quite basic cars have acceleration that would put a 70's supercar to shame.


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## Phaeton (31 Dec 2020)

raleighnut said:


> Sadly they can now get to 30mph in a quarter of the time it took an old Cortina, Moggy Thou, Viva etc in fact some quite basic cars have acceleration that would put a 70's supercar to shame.


Some if not all modern production cars will also stop a hell of a lot quicker as well.


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## Mark pallister (31 Dec 2020)

rogersDrogers said:


> Hello,
> This is be my first post on a forum!
> I’m essentially hoping to encourage people to sign a petition for the government to consider increasing the speed of an E-bike or peddle assisted bike from 16 mph to 20 mph.
> 16mph is fine once you reach built up areas however 16mph feels very slow on A roads where cars pass at 40 to 50 mph!
> ...


Pedal harder or buy a moped


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## Zanelad (31 Dec 2020)

Mark pallister said:


> Pedal harder or buy a moped



From me too.


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## I like Skol (5 Jan 2021)

Somehow missed this thread over Christmas 

NO from me.

The issue of ebike use and the speeds they achieve is a real hot potato. Ebike usage has exploded in the last 1-2 years and it is quite common to see people from all walks of life riding them including a large proportion of what can only be described as young, healthy males!
The main problem is the increased speed because although the riders are travelling much faster for less effort they have mostly not altered their behaviour to compensate for this. Ebike riders have continued to ride on ordinary pavements, shared use paths and in busy pedestrianised shopping areas but are now travelling 5-10mph faster than before and what makes matters much worse is that they are not slowing down when encountering people or obstacles.
A bike that can easily reach 15mph should be on the road and not mixing with pedestrians. My personal opinion is that the current 15.5mph limit is too fast and this should be reduced to 10mph or if the wish is to keep the current limit these bikes should be registered and insured while the users are licensed AND TRAINED.


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## Phaeton (5 Jan 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Somehow missed this thread over Christmas
> 
> NO from me.
> 
> ...


You missed the weight, if you're going to have a proper rant you have to include the extra weight of an E-bike with the extra momentum involved


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## I like Skol (5 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> You missed the weight, if you're going to have a proper rant you have to include the extra weight of an E-bike with the extra momentum involved


Rant?


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## Phaeton (5 Jan 2021)

I like Skol said:


> Rant?


C'mon it was a bit ranty, although mostly justified


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## jowwy (8 Jan 2021)

reading some of the comments on here makes me laugh.......if a bike can go over 15.5mph it should be taxed, insured, licensed and riders trained hmmmmmm, that's all bikes then

remember there is *NO* speed limit for these bikes or any other bike, just *assist* limit

remember legal ebikes need to be pedalled to work, they just have assistance up to a certain speed, but all bikes can go over 15.5mph, which would mean all bikes should be taxed and insured, not just Ebikes


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## classic33 (8 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> reading some of the comments on here makes me laugh.......if a bike can go over 15.5mph it should be taxed, insured, licensed and riders trained hmmmmmm, that's all bikes then
> 
> remember there is *NO* speed limit for these bikes or any other bike, just *assist* limit
> 
> remember legal ebikes need to be pedalled to work, they just have assistance up to a certain speed, but all bikes can go over 15.5mph, which would mean all bikes should be taxed and insured, not just Ebikes


The point being raised, by @rogersDrogers, was an increase in the assist speed, not the actual speed achievable. The way he worded it, it appears that he wants to rely more on the assist than actually putting any more effort into going faster.

I've said before it may be the start of the call for all bikes to be taxed and insured, if e-assist bikes have their top assist speed increased.

Reading his post again, it seems that his may not be a legal e-assist. He's not been back since posting the petition, so we can't ask him to clear that point up.


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## jowwy (8 Jan 2021)

classic33 said:


> The point being raised, by @rogersDrogers, was an increase in the assist speed, not the actual speed achievable. The way he worded it, it appears that he wants to rely more on the assist than actually putting any more effort into going faster.
> 
> I've said before it may be the start of the call for all bikes to be taxed and insured, if e-assist bikes have their top assist speed increased.
> 
> Reading his post again, it seems that his may not be a legal e-assist. He's not been back since posting the petition, so we can't ask him to clear that point up.


i am aware of what point @rogersDrogers is getting at........its just the post from others stating that bikes that go over 15.5mph should be taxed, insured, registered and have trained riders.....that's the laughable bit, cause that would mean all bikes having that


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## Phaeton (8 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> i am aware of what point @rogersDrogers is getting at........its just the post from others stating that bikes that go over 15.5mph should be taxed, insured, registered and have trained riders.....that's the laughable bit, cause that would mean all bikes having that


I think that is just your interruption of what you think they mean, I think it to means assisted level but we could both be wrong & they could mean something completely different


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## jowwy (8 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> I think that is just your interruption of what you think they mean, I think it to means assisted level but we could both be wrong & they could mean something completely different


if that's the case then they should put the word *assist* in the sentence, rather than allow people to make assumptions as to what they mean......but again an assist speed is just that, its an assist......an e bike can go way over that speed the same as any other.

why would someone need to be licenced, insured, taxed and trained just for that......crazy to me. 

either way 15.5 assist is fine for my current needs and use.....


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## Phaeton (8 Jan 2021)

jowwy said:


> if that's the case then they should put the word *assist* in the sentence, rather than allow people to make assumptions as to what they mean......but again an assist speed is just that, its an assist......an e bike can go way over that speed the same as any other.
> 
> why would someone need to be licenced, insured, taxed and trained just for that......crazy to me.
> 
> either way 15.5 assist is fine for my current needs and use.....


Maybe they should, but a lot of people respond from a mobile & make assumption what other people assumption will be


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## jowwy (8 Jan 2021)

Phaeton said:


> Maybe they should, but a lot of people respond from a mobile & make assumption what other people assumption will be


i don't get what that answer means.......

just cause people respond using a mobile, it doesn't mean they cant type what they actually mean, rather than allow people to make assumptions on what they mean. Making assumptions is what normally starts arguments and then leads to other situations happening.


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## sheddy (8 Jan 2021)

Maybe a sensible cc member should start a change.org petition to retain the current UK 15mph assist limit ?


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## Phaeton (8 Jan 2021)

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View: https://giphy.com/gifs/bbc-bbc2-bbc-two-l378iA8T0vfaGZ9h6
">via GIPHY</a></p>


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## classic33 (8 Jan 2021)

sheddy said:


> Maybe a sensible cc member should start a change.org petition to retain the current UK 15mph assist limit ?


I petitioned to get the current EPAC regulations changed back in 2006-2014 to include quadricycles. Before they changed, three wheels was the maximum allowed under the regulations.

You can fit a trailer which has a motor driven wheel, which can push you quicker than 20mph as it falls outside the current regulations.


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## ebikeerwidnes (8 Jan 2021)

I have written to my MP raising some of the points on the petition
especially some of the inaccuracies - such as the majority of cyclists supporting the idea

here is his response


"Thank you for your recent email regarding the speed limit for electric bikes.

I have written to the Minister at the Department for Transport raising the points you make. As soon as I have a response I will let you know. "

I also raised the problem of petition being able to be signed - but there being no way of complaining about them being inaccurate - or signaling a positive objection to the idea


I doubt I will get a meaningful response - but if I do I will let you know


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## rogerzilla (12 Jan 2021)

Buy a motorbike and do the training if you want to ride faster.


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## HMS_Dave (12 Jan 2021)

The issue for me is the mingling with pedestrians on shared use pathways etc... Even at 15.5 mph, an ape on a bike could smash a child into smithereens and well, end anybody really... Yes yes yes any bike can do this including non assist but the issue is the sheer ease at which it would be possible on an ebike. You're not going to find many jumping out of their seats on a shared path on a non assist, I havent anyway and I often ride them. Have seen the occasional nob on a bike with a motor which I've had to step out of the way for. I've not seen one convincing piece of evidence in favour of increasing the assist speed by 4.5mph...


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## Electric_Andy (12 Jan 2021)

I think the whole issue around electric bikes (not legal e-assist bikes) needs to be looked at. There is certainly a gap in the market for people who want to do 30mph everywhere without pedalling, but do not want the weight/noise/pollution issues associated with a moped. For example, why can't someone get a 1500W e-bike with a 28mph restriction, do a CBT, tax and insure it and ride it on the road? The only thing I can think of is the registration plate. Surely there would be a way these days of mounting some sort of smaller plastic digital tag that can be read by the authorities which pings up your reg number? Insurers would likely charge a lot more due to the ease of it being nicked, but I'm sure a lot of illegally ridden ebikes would be ridden legally if the means in which to do so were actually there.

It's no differernt to having an e-moped, but not everyone wants a step-through plastic fantastic machine that looks like a washing machine and weighs as much as 5 bicycles! Just a thought really.


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## rogerzilla (12 Jan 2021)

You'd need to keep them off psyclepaths though. That's the quid pro quo. More powerful = ride on the road all the time.


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## gbb (14 Jan 2021)

There is the weight / mass of an ebike that maybe plays into why / how ebikes were restricted to 15.5 mph in the first place Hit someone with an ebike, weighing considerably more than a normal bike, you're potentially going to do significantly more damage....among many other considerations we're no doubt oblivious to.

I'd like to assume the restriction has been arrived at by learned people who have weighed all the pros and cons up very carefully and in depth...

Is it just me or does everyone just get fed up of this arguement...I want, why cant I have ????


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## straas (20 Jan 2021)

Big nope


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