# Orbea Gain



## youngoldbloke (26 Jan 2018)

Anyone had a ride on one of these yet? I'm seriously considering an ebike due to medical issues and the possibilty of major surgery. Coming from a club riding, road cycling, road bike background I find most ebikes hideous looking and horrendously heavy. The Gain appears to be relatively light and good looking - and starting at around £1800, good priced too. (I find the Giant and Raleigh road ebikes ugly BTW). No one appears to have them in stock though. I'm prepared to travel to see and test ride one but meanwhile has anyone any experience of them?


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## Pale Rider (26 Jan 2018)

Electric hybrid and mountain bikes are now a bit more mainstream, but electric roadie bikes are relatively new.

I doubt you will find anyone with one in stock, but Orbea do employ a rep or two who can provide demo bikes via a dealer.

My suggestion is go to your nearest Orbea dealer and inquire about getting a go on a Gain.


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## Sharky (26 Jan 2018)

Somebody on here posted a gtech with dropped bars. Looked really nice. Tried searching for it, but havent found it yet. Others might remember it.


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## lyn1 (6 Feb 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Anyone had a ride on one of these yet? I'm seriously considering an ebike due to medical issues and the possibilty of major surgery. Coming from a club riding, road cycling, road bike background I find most ebikes hideous looking and horrendously heavy. The Gain appears to be relatively light and good looking - and starting at around £1800, good priced too. (I find the Giant and Raleigh road ebikes ugly BTW). No one appears to have them in stock though. I'm prepared to travel to see and test ride one but meanwhile has anyone any experience of them?



I checked with a dealer who said the schedule for availability was May, with a slight chance of it coming forward by a month or so.


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## sight-pin (6 Feb 2018)

Nice looking but i can't find what the expected range with just a 6.9 amp battery?


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## midlife (6 Feb 2018)

Sharky said:


> Somebody on here posted a gtech with dropped bars. Looked really nice. Tried searching for it, but havent found it yet. Others might remember it.



I remember that, it was a white one iirc

Here?

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/my-mod-o-fied-single-speed-e-bike.204054/


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## NickWi (16 Mar 2018)

Goingback to the OP question, I'm also seriously considering one of these (as in an Orbea Gain D30). All the reviews I've read are basically the manufacturers brochure rehashed, as in no one seemes to have actually thrown a leg over the saddle and ridden on. 

So anyone her actually riden one, even if it was just a round the block test ride?


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## NickWi (4 Apr 2018)

NickWi said:


> Goingback to the OP question, I'm also seriously considering one of these (as in an Orbea Gain D30). All the reviews I've read are basically the manufacturers brochure rehashed, as in no one seemes to have actually thrown a leg over the saddle and ridden on.
> 
> So anyone her actually riden one, even if it was just a round the block test ride?



Well, I've gone and bought one. D20 with 1x11 Sram Groupset and Gravel Tyres. I know I said I was thinking about a D20 but Tredz had a 10% off over the Easter weekend, 0% Finance and it was in stock. Bright Orange and Large. Ordered it Sunday, they were working B.Hol Monday, desparcthed Tuessday, arrived today Wednesday. All I'll say on that is, bloody good service Tredz!

Only one problem, it's pissing down outside!!!!!!!!!


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## sight-pin (4 Apr 2018)

NickWi said:


> Well, I've gone and bought one. D20 with 1x11 Sram Groupset and Gravel Tyres. I know I said I was thinking about a D20 but Tredz had a 10% off over the Easter weekend, 0% Finance and it was in stock. Bright Orange and Large. Ordered it Sunday, they were working B.Hol Monday, desparcthed Tuessday, arrived today Wednesday. All I'll say on that is, bloody good service Tredz!
> 
> Only one problem, it's pissing down outside!!!!!!!!!



Nice one. Enjoy. Don't forget the performance report with some pics.


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## youngoldbloke (4 Apr 2018)

NickWi said:


> Well, I've gone and bought one. D20 with 1x11 Sram Groupset and Gravel Tyres. I know I said I was thinking about a D20 but Tredz had a 10% off over the Easter weekend, 0% Finance and it was in stock. Bright Orange and Large. Ordered it Sunday, they were working B.Hol Monday, desparcthed Tuessday, arrived today Wednesday. All I'll say on that is, bloody good service Tredz!
> 
> Only one problem, it's pissing down outside!!!!!!!!!


I was tempted by the Easter discount - looking forward to your report  How does the sizing compare with what you're used too?


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## NickWi (6 Apr 2018)

Right, first ride out today on the new Gain, not far only 21miles and I only averaged 11mph but enough to get the feel of things. And my initial impression, bloody brilliant! It's a bit like riding with a tail wind gently pushing you along all the time.


It wasn't a particularly hill route today and I deliberately left the power set in Eco or minimal assistance. The result was I felt like I was wafting along with a breeze behind me. You've still got to use the gears for the hills and pedalling at over 15mph I didn't feel any drag from the (now off) motor. After 21 gentle miles I’d used 30% of the power so a 60mile range ought to be viable, but a hillier route would undoubtedly bite into that range.

Overall the fit was very good, my previous everyday bike has a 59cm frame and putting the two side by side everything looked pretty close and the controls fell easily to hand. Everything else seems well made & finished and the bike was silent, no noise from the motor at all. My bike is fitted with a Sram 1x11 groupset and everything work just as it should. The brakes however are exceptional. I'm no lightweight and they hauled the combined mass of me and the bike down with consummate easy.

Downside, weight, you ain't no light weight, but it's no heavier than my 531st framed tourer and riding at 15+ mph (i.e. with the motor off) I couldn't feel any extra drag from the motor. I’ll be changing the 40mm gravel tyres to something narrower and more road oriented for the summer, but I knew that was something I probably be having to do anyway. The OEM saddle, ouch, not my shape and I swapped it for a leather saddle that I know I can ride miles on. Saddles however are a personal thing and it might suit you just fine. The rest of the kit, does what it says on the tin.

Electric bike related issues. The Green, Amber and Red light indicating the assistance level on the top tube could be brighter. Today was a bright day and you needed a proper look down rather than a glance to check the setting level, but the actual use of it is dead easy. Playing about with the power levels, dropping down from high to medium or medium to low induces a small amount engine braking for second or two but it isn't a problem. And that's it, no problems, no dramas, just got on and rode it with a big grin on my face.

Bottom line, when I got home Mrs W asked me how I got on what did I think? My answer "You've just got to get one if these, bloody brilliant."

I'll post updates and if you've got any questions I'll do my best to answer as I learn more.


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## Pale Rider (7 Apr 2018)

Worth taking care with tyre selection.

Ebikes are quite hard on tyres, particularly the sidewalls, so I would be wary of fitting a lightweight roadie tyre.

Narrowness is over rated in terms of reducing rolling resistance.

Schwalbe make a range of 'ebike ready' tyres, might not be the lightest but you can be sure they are sturdy enough to do the job.

https://www.schwalbe.com/en-GB/newsreader/e-bike-tires-from-schwalbe.html


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## NickWi (7 Apr 2018)

Tyres, yes I was aware of that and I had a pair of 700 x 32 Marathon Plus in the shed waiting to go on the Tandem which have gone on the Gain instead ready for a 50mile ride tomorrow. Hopefully the better rolling resistance of these over the OEM gravel tyres will help things roll along better, but those Marathon Plus's are a pig to fit. I just hope their puncture resistance is as good as Schwalbe claim.

Changing the subject, did you know the Gain is Bluetooth enabled!

There is an app available that connects your phone to your bike. On the surface it's your atypical bike computer app that give you the usual info, plus you can upload to Strava and use it as a sat nav, but a bit extra info about how much batter power is being used, is left, range etc. Digging deeper you can change the power settings, add a heart rate monitor, set alerts etc, and potentially very interesting, it can use your heart rate to automatically vary the assistance power level to help you keep in your desired exercise zone. Just who's in charge here!


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## NickWi (19 Apr 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Yes I know - I'm the one asking about the Gain in the other thread remember - and I'm still seriously looking at them. Can you compare it with the likes of a mid engined bike?



I've never ridden a mid engine jobby so I can't offer a compare them, but having done over a hundred miles on the Gain in the last week or so all I can offer you is my experience of that.

Firstly, what Orbea say about enough, but only enough is true. The power from the motor and the size of the battery are designed to assist rather than power you along. Both the power rating of the motor and capacity of the battery are a lot less than the mid engine bikes. You still need the gears for the hills and you (well I do) still huff & puff up the hills. I can't deny putting into full power makes it easier and I rode up one of Shropshires short but steep buggers the other day with ease, but the motor won't do it all for you. On the flat is different. You can set the power to high, just turn the pedals lightly and the motor will do it for you, but don't expect any great range from the battery if you do that, it's not what it's designed for. In practice what I've been doing is riding with the motor on its minimal setting for the flats (or even switching it off) and only using the assist for the hills, and only full power assist on the steepest hills. Eco power and the gears are more than enough for gentle hills provided you're not trying to KOM points.

One other comment I think I ought to make, brakes. Because of the extra weight of E-Bikes and the fact that race styled e-bikes like the Gain have a different set of design parameters to urban bikes, they drop like a stone going downhill. The first long downhill I went down really surprised me with how much speed I picked up. Add in the rotational mass of the rear hub motor (and in my case too much extra padding) and you've got a fair bit of mass to stop. The Sram hydraulic brakes on my D20 are excellent, but whichever model you chose, don't skimp on the brakes.

If you've got any specific question I'll be glad to answer as best I can.


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## youngoldbloke (19 Apr 2018)

Thanks for that. Really helpful to hear your real-life experiences of the bike .


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## Ebikefan (3 May 2018)

NickWi said:


> I've never ridden a mid engine jobby so I can't offer a compare them, but having done over a hundred miles on the Gain in the last week or so all I can offer you is my experience of that.
> 
> Firstly, what Orbea say about enough, but only enough is true. The power from the motor and the size of the battery are designed to assist rather than power you along. Both the power rating of the motor and capacity of the battery are a lot less than the mid engine bikes. You still need the gears for the hills and you (well I do) still huff & puff up the hills. I can't deny putting into full power makes it easier and I rode up one of Shropshires short but steep buggers the other day with ease, but the motor won't do it all for you. On the flat is different. You can set the power to high, just turn the pedals lightly and the motor will do it for you, but don't expect any great range from the battery if you do that, it's not what it's designed for. In practice what I've been doing is riding with the motor on its minimal setting for the flats (or even switching it off) and only using the assist for the hills, and only full power assist on the steepest hills. Eco power and the gears are more than enough for gentle hills provided you're not trying to KOM points.
> 
> ...


I am very interested in buying orbea gain but i don't know if this bike will manage hard high speed gravel rides. How is the build quality? Battery or motor do not rattle on rough road? And what about swapping wheels for 650b with 47c tire? Do you think that this frame could accomodate that? And finally how would you rate the extra power in the strongest mode when going uphill? It is two Times easier or less?

Thanks!


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## youngoldbloke (4 May 2018)

Ebikefan said:


> I am very interested in buying orbea gain but i don't know if this bike will manage hard high speed gravel rides. How is the build quality? Battery or motor do not rattle on rough road? And what about swapping wheels for 650b with 47c tire? Do you think that this frame could accomodate that? And finally how would you rate the extra power in the strongest mode when going uphill? It is two Times easier or less?
> 
> Thanks!


NickWi is obviously the one to answer regarding power etc, but as for 'high speed gravel' - the Gain cuts out at 15.5mph/25 kmph, then it becomes just a relatively heavy bike, and it's up to you and your leg muscles. I wouldn't think the battery or motor would rattle as the battery is bolted inside the down tube, and the motor is the rear wheel hub. As to swapping to 650B wheels - as the motor is in the rear hub you would have to rebuild it into a new wheel. So not that simple. Fitting 47c tyres might be pushing it too. (edited for clarity)


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## Ebikefan (4 May 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> NickWi is obviously the one to answer regarding power etc, but as for 'high speed gravel' - the Gain cuts out at 15.5mph/25 kmph, then it becomes just a relatively heavy bike, and it's up to you and your leg muscles. I wouldn't think the battery or motor would rattle as the battery is bolted inside the down tube, and the motor is the rear wheel hub. As to swapping to 650B wheels - as the motor is in the rear hub you would have to rebuild it into a new wheel. So not that simple. Fitting 47c tyres might be pushing it too.


You have mentioned a serious issue with this bike. Motor beyond 25 kmph is holding you back working as a brake of some sort so you have to work harder to maintain those kind of speeds. So for sure i would like to use some kind of dongle or try other ways of removing speed limit. Otherwise it makes little sens for my kind of riding. The question is if this is possible? Is someone already tried this with success?
In terms of wheel swap I know that this would requaire moving the motor but this is doable. The question is about frame clerance for 650b wider tire. Other option is to use lauf grit fork but this is more expensive solution and applicable only for front wheel.


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## NickWi (4 May 2018)

Ebikefan said:


> I am very interested in buying orbea gain but i don't know if this bike will manage hard high speed gravel rides. How is the build quality? Battery or motor do not rattle on rough road? And what about swapping wheels for 650b with 47c tire? Do you think that this frame could accomodate that? And finally how would you rate the extra power in the strongest mode when going uphill? It is two Times easier or less?
> Thanks!



As far as I'm concerned the build quality is good. The welding is smooth and eveything seems to be bolted & screwed together well. The paintwork is also good but I'm still at the mollycoddling stange and being careful with how I treat it. As for rattling etc, no none, in fact how quiet it is one of the first comments I made to Mrs W after my first ride. This might be because my bike has a Sram 1x11 groupset so it doesn't have the extra chain slack a double chainring give, but as I said everything seems well screwed together.

Clearance for 47 tyres, probably. The inside of the fork measure about 55mm across at the tyre point, but I'm no expert on tyre shapes or profiles. Lasty riding uphill and being high speed garvel bike. That's got to be a subjective topic and depends on so many personal factors, so all I'll say it that, yes it makes it easier, but remember what Orbea's design brief is; Enough, but only Enough. It up to you to provide the majority of the imput and as youngoldbloke rightly said, the assistance comes to a holt at 15.5mph, (which is hardly what I'd call high speed).


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## Ebikefan (5 May 2018)

NickWi said:


> As far as I'm concerned the build quality is good. The welding is smooth and eveything seems to be bolted & screwed together well. The paintwork is also good but I'm still at the mollycoddling stange and being careful with how I treat it. As for rattling etc, no none, in fact how quiet it is one of the first comments I made to Mrs W after my first ride. This might be because my bike has a Sram 1x11 groupset so it doesn't have the extra chain slack a double chainring give, but as I said everything seems well screwed together.
> 
> Clearance for 47 tyres, probably. The inside of the fork measure about 55mm across at the tyre point, but I'm no expert on tyre shapes or profiles. Lasty riding uphill and being high speed garvel bike. That's got to be a subjective topic and depends on so many personal factors, so all I'll say it that, yes it makes it easier, but remember what Orbea's design brief is; Enough, but only Enough. It up to you to provide the majority of the imput and as youngoldbloke rightly said, the assistance comes to a holt at 15.5mph, (which is hardly what I'd call high speed).


Thank you. Now I know that orbea gain is probably not for me. It is a bike with too many compromises. First you get only mild support below 25 kmph and above you get a motor that just slows you down due to the drag. Then you have a weight penalty which slows you even further and a hub motor in the rear which affect the handling on fast descends which i like very much. So i look forward to more bikes like cube agree hybrid c 62 with mid motor but with more tire clerance than just 35c (hopefully compatible with 650b wheel). Maybe something like this will be introduced this year...


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## youngoldbloke (5 May 2018)

Ebikefan said:


> Thank you. Now I know that orbea gain is probably not for me. It is a bike with too many compromises. First you get only mild support below 25 kmph and above you get a motor that just slows you down due to the drag. Then you have a weight penalty which slows you even further and a hub motor in the rear which affect the handling on fast descends which i like very much. So i look forward to more bikes like cube agree hybrid c 62 with mid motor but with more tire clerance than just 35c (hopefully compatible with 650b wheel). Maybe something like this will be introduced this year...


 I think you're right - not for you. BTW are you in the US? - I'm curious - why do you want an ebike? All the 'legal' road ebikes in the UK (excluding N. Ireland, where they have to be licensed, insured etc etc) are restricted to 25 kmph. Orbea advertise the Gain as 'just enough', it's not intended to be a high speed, high power ride.


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## Ebikefan (5 May 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> I think you're right - not for you. BTW are you in the US? - I'm curious - why do you want an ebike? All the 'legal' road ebikes in the UK (excluding N. Ireland, where they have to be licensed, insured etc etc) are restricted to 25 kmph. Orbea advertise the Gain as 'just enough', it's not intended to be a high speed, high power ride.


I am from Poland but i intent to remove speed limit from any ebike that i will buy because i look for constant support in any situation. Problem with orbea gain is that its motor is probably too weak to work above 25kmph without problems like overheating.


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## youngoldbloke (6 May 2018)

NickWi said:


> ............ If you've got any specific question I'll be glad to answer as best I can.


 OK, very specific - what length inner tube valve for the Airline Corsa rims?
The bullet has been bitten - a D30 - delivery about 6 weeks


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## NickWi (6 May 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> OK, very specific - what length inner tube valve for the Airline Corsa rims?
> The bullet has been bitten - a D30 - delivery about 6 weeks



Welcome to the club and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine. 

To answer your question the OEM stems are 50mm, tho' I used 60mm ones as that was all my LBS had in stock when I swapped to narrower tyres.


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## robgul (24 May 2018)

I bought an Orbea Gain D20 a few weeks ago - only ridden about 50 miles so far but seems pretty good - just getting the hang of gear usage and power. The very simple single button step-through presses for power settings is really neat, no big boxes on the handlebars. The only downside so far is that charging is in situ which I assume is an acceptable compromise to save the weight of the casing for a removable battery. Range is yet to be detremined but obviously dictated by power usage.

It looks like a road bike and rides like my venerable Galaxy (similar weight) ... that was the plan - ride without power most of the time, just kick in the motor for hills. I've added mudguards and rack, changed the rubbish OEM tyres for 32mm Marathons.

Rob


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## Mrs R (27 May 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Anyone had a ride on one of these yet? I'm seriously considering an ebike due to medical issues and the possibilty of major surgery. Coming from a club riding, road cycling, road bike background I find most ebikes hideous looking and horrendously heavy. The Gain appears to be relatively light and good looking - and starting at around £1800, good priced too. (I find the Giant and Raleigh road ebikes ugly BTW). No one appears to have them in stock though. I'm prepared to travel to see and test ride one but meanwhile has anyone any experience of them?


I’ve just taken delivery of one and have borrowed the demo one from my local dealer a number of times - I love it as I have arthritic knees and it just gives me that little bit of support by taking some of the strain off the knee when out with the club - and it doesn’t look like an ebike


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## davids023 (31 May 2018)

Mrs R said:


> I’ve just taken delivery of one and have borrowed the demo one from my local dealer a number of times - I love it as I have arthritic knees and it just gives me that little bit of support by taking some of the strain off the knee when out with the club - and it doesn’t look like an ebike



How long ago did you order the bike? I ordered my D30 mid April, expected delivery was 15th May, then got pushed to 30th May. Now is expected 2nd July.
Did everyone else go through this too?


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## robgul (31 May 2018)

I'm in the trade (but not an Orbea dealer) and had to buy mine retail from Tredz :-( - when I ordered it at the end of March mine was the only size/colour listed - when I place my order the delivery went out to July ... perhaps I had the last one in stock? A friend who is Orbea dealer (who couldn't get one for me) says that delivery of the whole Gain range has been pushed to mid, then late July (possibly) ... and he has 6 orders with deposits. 

Everyone that has seen mine has been stunned at the appearance, quality and price points.... looks like Orbea is on a winner ifthey can get them made.

Rob


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## T4tomo (31 May 2018)

I'm.genuinely staggered that they can cram that spec battery and motor into 11.3kg. Sounds like a bit of a game changer for the ebike, as most models are so heavy so you can't ride them if the battery runs out, at sub 12kg its lighter than a good proportion of Mountain bikes


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## robgul (31 May 2018)

T4tomo said:


> I'm.genuinely staggered that they can cram that spec battery and motor into 11.3kg. Sounds like a bit of a game changer for the ebike, as most models are so heavy so you can't ride them if the battery runs out, at sub 12kg its lighter than a good proportion of Mountain bikes



.... a lot of the weight saving is because the battery is not removable for charging, thus saving the weight of the battery case that would need to be pretty robust (the battery is removable by a dealer for replacement etc) ..... the downside is that you have to charge it in situ - not an issue to me and I knew that - BUT it's not made very clear on the Orbea website specs. The drive-train is also relatively light (Claris with hollowtech BB)

Rob


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## youngoldbloke (31 May 2018)

Mine is (Tiagra) expected mid June, and I haven't heard anything to the contrary as yet. Also, was in an Orbea dealer earlier today (not the one mine's coming from) and he said has one on order for a customer, again mid June delivery, he believed.


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## davids023 (5 Jun 2018)

I got the D30 as well (Tiagra), I bought it from a store in Germany, I am based in Australia. 
Hopefully you get yours mid june and it doesnt get delayed.
I heard 2019 models will be out end of June. Apparently D30 will come with 105 instead of tiagra, D20 (ultegra) M30 will be carbon model..


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## youngoldbloke (5 Jun 2018)

davids023 said:


> ....... I heard 2019 models will be out end of June. *Apparently D30 will come with 105 instead of tiagra*, D20 (ultegra) M30 will be carbon model..


Hi - hope you are enjoying your D30. I half expected that Orbea would do this, though I suppose we would have to wait until this time next year to actually get the new 105 version. Be interesting to see what the pricing is like. In the UK the current D30 is £500 more than the D40 Claris - better brakes and one or two other upgrades but the difference seems rather excessive, and the D10 Ultegra another £700 more. Be interesting to see how heavy the carbon one is.


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## Craigandrew (9 Jun 2018)

Obea have plenty of bikes. It's the motor they're having trouble with the supplier 
(Ebikemotion ) not being able to keep up with demand.
Just got mine 8 June 2018 after ordering it in January 2018,


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## davids023 (12 Jun 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Hi - hope you are enjoying your D30. I half expected that Orbea would do this, though I suppose we would have to wait until this time next year to actually get the new 105 version. Be interesting to see what the pricing is like. In the UK the current D30 is £500 more than the D40 Claris - better brakes and one or two other upgrades but the difference seems rather excessive, and the D10 Ultegra another £700 more. Be interesting to see how heavy the carbon one is.



i have spoken to the bike shop. Carbon 105 will be 3800Euro, DuraAce is 7500Euro. Weight of bike is 11.2Kgs.. 
He is taking orders now, but delivery wont be until Jan - April 2019.


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## youngoldbloke (15 Jun 2018)

Just been informed the mid June delivery is delayed to mid July ..............


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## davids023 (18 Jun 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just been informed the mid June delivery is delayed to mid July ..............


I have cancelled my order as I couldnt get a firm delivery date. Kept getting pushed back. 
Keep us updated how you go with yours.


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## Craigandrew (2 Jul 2018)

Any body been out riding on there obea gain in wet weather conditions ,
I was wondering about water ingress ware the charging point is.


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## gelfy666 (6 Jul 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Anyone had a ride on one of these yet? I'm seriously considering an ebike due to medical issues and the possibilty of major surgery. Coming from a club riding, road cycling, road bike background I find most ebikes hideous looking and horrendously heavy. The Gain appears to be relatively light and good looking - and starting at around £1800, good priced too. (I find the Giant and Raleigh road ebikes ugly BTW). No one appears to have them in stock though. I'm prepared to travel to see and test ride one but meanwhile has anyone any experience of them?


They have a demo in Telford on Sunday.


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## NickWi (6 Jul 2018)

They even claim to have a medium D30 in stock!

https://www.plushhillcycles.co.uk/1...ain-d30-road-electric-bike-medium-orange.aspx


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## Mcar33 (22 Jul 2018)

NickWi said:


> Changing the subject, did you know the Gain is Bluetooth enabled!
> 
> There is an app available that connects your phone to your bike. On the surface it's your atypical bike computer app that give you the usual info, plus you can upload to Strava and use it as a sat nav, but a bit extra info about how much batter power is being used, is left, range etc. Digging deeper you can change the power settings, add a heart rate monitor, set alerts etc, and potentially very interesting, it can use your heart rate to automatically vary the assistance power level to help you keep in your desired exercise zone. Just who's in charge here!



NickWi, thanks for sharing the information. I have an M30 on order here in the US and getting your feedback has been helpful given there's no way to test ride these bikes. They are telling me delivery will be late August/early September, but I wouldn't be surprised if even that gets pushed back. I'm first in line at my dealer, so praying something happens soon. Also I understand the US experience will be different given the higher max assisted speed here (20 mph), but your impressions are still very helpful!

My question for you is do you also have a bike computer installed (Garmin, Lezyne, ?) that you use in lieu of the built in bluetooth and app on phone. If so, any issues to doing that given the multiple bluetooth signals that would be occurring from the bike and any sensors used for the computer? Thanks in advance!


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## Pale Rider (22 Jul 2018)

Mcar33 said:


> NickWi, thanks for sharing the information. I have an M30 on order here in the US and getting your feedback has been helpful given there's no way to test ride these bikes. They are telling me delivery will be late August/early September, but I wouldn't be surprised if even that gets pushed back. I'm first in line at my dealer, so praying something happens soon. Also I understand the US experience will be different given the higher max assisted speed here (20 mph), but your impressions are still very helpful!
> 
> My question for you is do you also have a bike computer installed (Garmin, Lezyne, ?) that you use in lieu of the built in bluetooth and app on phone. If so, any issues to doing that given the multiple bluetooth signals that would be occurring from the bike and any sensors used for the computer? Thanks in advance!



Wireless bike computers often do not work with ebikes, although some do.

A wired computer will work normally.

By computer, I mean a device with a speed sensor magnet.

What we in the UK call a Garmin - a stand alone GPX device - works on an ebike.


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## NickWi (22 Jul 2018)

Hi Mcar33,

I ride with a Mio Cyclo 505 GPS unit not a Garmin so I can’t comment on compatibility etc, however the Cyclo is Bluetooth enabled but I’ve never tried to pair it with the bike. I’ll give it a go and see what happens. I have also used the Emotion app as a bike computer and it's okay and does provide some useful post ride information, but I both prefer the Cylco and like to keep my phone safe in my rack pack rather than exposed on the bars. In terms of connecting other ‘tech’ I’ve got a real mix ‘n’ match, but none of it interferes with anything else or the bike/phone connectivity.

My phone, (a Galaxy S5) is connected to the bike via the Emoition app, my Fitbit, the Cyclo and a Tickr Heart Rate Monitor. Oh, and if I can be bothered, a Fly6 CE back light/camera and a Tomtom Bandit. In turn the Cylo is connected to the same heart rate monitor, a wireless but magnetically triggered Mio Magnetic Cadence & Speed Sensor, and of course back to the phone. Some are connected Ant+, some are Bluetooth and the Bandit is local Wifi if I can ever get it to connect. Not unsurprisingly when the phone is connected to most/all the phone battery drains faster than sieve with extra-large holes! 

I have also used Emotion app in ‘Auto’ mode that varies the power assistance level depending on your heart rate. I tried it a couple of times but I didn’t like it. Where I live doesn’t have many long climbs, but plenty of short sharp ones and the app being reactive waits until you’re heart rate goes up and your huffing & puffing half way up the hill before the assistance kicks in; it then continues to give you maximum assistance after you’ve gone over the top. It also seemed to use the higher power setting more often than I do, thus giving less range. In practice I prefer the manual, simple and pre-emptive pressing of the power button.

As a matter of interest, what capacity battery are Orbea specifying for the US model? If they are just reprogramming the controller to give you up to 20mph of assistance but still using the same 36V/6.9A battery then surely this will draw more power from the battery and hence reduce the range. Just curious.


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## Mcar33 (24 Jul 2018)

Thanks NickWi, amazing all the tech we can add on these days, am considering Garmin with their Varia rear radar. A lot of the electric and hybrid cars on the road spook me from behind because they're so quiet, rear radar will at least let me know something is coming up behind me.

I believe the US models still have the same battery, that is the spec given on the US website. My dealer said the bike would be Class 1, which here is pedal assistance to 20 mph. I don't know anyone yet that has a US model, so I can't say for sure that the battery is the same, but I'm not sure how they can fit a higher capacity one in the same frame, so range will end up being less like you say.


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## NickWi (24 Jul 2018)

Mcar33 said:


> ............. A lot of the electric and hybrid cars on the road spook me from behind because they're so quiet, rear radar will at least let me know something is coming up behind me.



Tell me about it, but from the other side! My better half got a Toyota Prius later last year and it's quite an eye opener the first time you drive it in a supermarket carpark or down a busy town High Street. My car is a modern, but still noisy diesel and nobody fails to notice that behind them. But in hers, in the Prius, no, nope, people just haven't got a clue you're behind them, then they suddenly jump and try to rush out of the way when they realise you're behind them, (a bit like pinging a bicycle bell). There isn't even a way of forcing the ending to run and even if it did you should see the amount of sound proofing under the bonnet. So, apologies on behalf of all electric and hybrid drivers.


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## youngoldbloke (28 Jul 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just been informed the mid June delivery is delayed to mid July ..............


Still waiting .......... meanwhile stocked up on 28mm GP4000Sii's, Boardman Pro SPD's, and from China, stem mounted phone holder, the bar ends I prefer, and carbon bottle side cages - half the fun of a new bike is customising it.


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## youngoldbloke (15 Aug 2018)

It's here- at last! Orbea D30 (the Tiagra one). Picked it up yesterday. Pics show it as fresh from the shop, SPDs and bottle cages to be added and one or two other little changes to be made -tyres to GP4000Sii (just what are Kenda Krankfish, other than very heavy?) 14.3kg as shown.


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## NickWi (15 Aug 2018)

Nice One and  to the club. 

Now, one word of warning, get ready for the questions. They start by just looking, wondering, it is, really, it doesn't look like an e-bike does it you can hear them thinking. They then ask where's the battery, what's that button for, is that the motor, how heavy is it, what's the range and many many more. They do attract the attention.


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## welsh dragon (15 Aug 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Still waiting .......... meanwhile stocked up on 28mm GP4000Sii's, Boardman Pro SPD's, and from China, stem mounted phone holder, the bar ends I prefer, and carbon bottle side cages - half the fun of a new bike is customising it.




What a lovely looking bike. I hope you have many years or enjoyment from it.


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## robgul (16 Aug 2018)

NickWi said:


> Nice One and  to the club.
> 
> Now, one word of warning, get ready for the questions. They start by just looking, wondering, it is, really, it doesn't look like an e-bike does it you can hear them thinking. They then ask where's the battery, what's that button for, is that the motor, how heavy is it, what's the range and many many more. They do attract the attention.



The best comment I had with my Gain road-bike was : _"I've never seen a bike with a Rohloff hub gear AND a derailleur" _ - obviously confused by the rear wheel motor!

Rob


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## youngoldbloke (17 Aug 2018)

First short try out ride today. Wow! Better than I remember from my test ride. Local hill I struggled to climb painfully in the past at 7-8 mph, climbed at 13mph, with minimal effort! As I'm a relatively old person I had a bit of stress trying to pair the Iwoc with my phone, but it linked up without my help eventually . Looking forward to tomorrows adventure .....


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## TyrannosaurusTreks (18 Aug 2018)

Very nice.


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## stevef069 (12 Oct 2018)

I'm a US cyclist with the Gain M20i Limited on pre-order since early August. I received a call from the local shop yesterday and was informed Orbea has pushed back delivery to North America until mid January of 2019. Third such notice since I paid in full for the bike and getting concerned that at this rate the next generation of ebikes will hit the show rooms and I'll be stuck with older technology. I ask but nobody, including people in the Orbea USA, seem willing to answer my questions as to WHY. What's going on?


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## youngoldbloke (14 Oct 2018)

I can't help with why the delay - demand maybe? But isn't the Gain M20i Limited one of the 2019 models anyway? - they are the next generation ebikes. Great looking bike BTW, and I note it is set up to assist up to 20mph - a more sensible speed than the 15.5 mph in the UK, where I find that it is sometimes difficult to stay with a group that is riding at 16 - 18 mph, though my alloy Gain is heavier than the M20i of course.
Be interesting to see the development of this genre of ebike over the next few years - eg Ribble's new ebike range. (edited for clarity)


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## robgul (14 Oct 2018)

The delay, allegedly according to my Orbea dealer pal, is the supply of motors from the Far East to Orbea's factory in Spain. Not sure where you got the 20mph for the Ribble, the UK legal limit is 25 km/h which is 15.8 (Ribble's specs say 26km/h)

Rob


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## youngoldbloke (14 Oct 2018)

Sorry for the confusion - _'Great looking bike BTW, and I note it is set up to assist up to 20mph'_ meant to refer to the Gain M20i that stevef069 has on order in the *USA* - see information at https://contenderbicycles.com/product/2019-orbea-gain-m20i-ltd/ _'This uses a hub-based motor that offers 40 Nm torque and 250 W power, and offers drag-free operation above the 20 mph assist limit'_.- they still quote the same sort of range though.


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## jowwy (4 Nov 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> It's here- at last! Orbea D30 (the Tiagra one). Picked it up yesterday. Pics show it as fresh from the shop, SPDs and bottle cages to be added and one or two other little changes to be made -tyres to GP4000Sii (just what are Kenda Krankfish, other than very heavy?) 14.3kg as shown.
> 
> View attachment 424583
> View attachment 424584
> ...


How are you doing with this bike? Im thinking of getting the flat bar version to compliment my cube acid ebike


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## youngoldbloke (4 Nov 2018)

Loving it - It suits me fine - reckon a range of getting on for 50 - 60 miles for me, generally fairly flat rides with the occasional incline. I can now ride with my club's leisure rides again, but when the speed rises over 15.5 mph I find I'm working hard to keep up, but then on the hills it's a hoot! I can now get up slopes that my knackered legs were totally unable to cope with. Most of the time I'm using the lowest level of assistance, as I don't want it too easy - can still make it hurt if I want to. However I've had problems connecting with the app - probably more to do with my phone. When it works it's very useful, giving comprehensive details re the electronics and range, ride etc.
I've changed the tyres to GP4000Sii, and the difference is very noticeable (although having just fixed a thorn related puncture in the rear after very few miles I think GP 4 seasons would be a better choice at this time of year - I might put one on just the rear). I've swapped the saddle to one I prefer along with a light Ritchey seatpost (only because I had it - the Orbea carbon SP is fine, if a little overlong for my setup) Roughly a Kilo weight saved, soon to be part replaced when I fit mudguards! So pretty satisfied - it's doing what I wanted. I think you need to try one - you might find it underpowered compared to your Cube - although much lighter? - but then I don't have much experience of E mountain bikes - the only one I've ridden was a friends top of the range KTM and that was very different - quite a beast. If I were buying again I'd be looking at the new Ribbles as well, and the 2019 Carbon Orbeas - roughly £1K more of course! BTW I find the 2018 Tiagra just as good as the 2014 Ultegra on my Rose - can't fault it. Hope this helps …….


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## jowwy (4 Nov 2018)

youngoldbloke said:


> Loving it - It suits me fine - reckon a range of getting on for 50 - 60 miles for me, generally fairly flat rides with the occasional incline. I can now ride with my club's leisure rides again, but when the speed rises over 15.5 mph I find I'm working hard to keep up, but then on the hills it's a hoot! I can now get up slopes that my knackered legs were totally unable to cope with. Most of the time I'm using the lowest level of assistance, as I don't want it too easy - can still make it hurt if I want to. However I've had problems connecting with the app - probably more to do with my phone. When it works it's very useful, giving comprehensive details re the electronics and range, ride etc.
> I've changed the tyres to GP4000Sii, and the difference is very noticeable (although having just fixed a thorn related puncture in the rear after very few miles I think GP 4 seasons would be a better choice at this time of year - I might put one on just the rear). I've swapped the saddle to one I prefer along with a light Ritchey seatpost (only because I had it - the Orbea carbon SP is fine, if a little overlong for my setup) Roughly a Kilo weight saved, soon to be part replaced when I fit mudguards! So pretty satisfied - it's doing what I wanted. I think you need to try one - you might find it underpowered compared to your Cube - although much lighter? - but then I don't have much experience of E mountain bikes - the only one I've ridden was a friends top of the range KTM and that was very different - quite a beast. If I were buying again I'd be looking at the new Ribbles as well, and the 2019 Carbon Orbeas - roughly £1K more of course! BTW I find the 2018 Tiagra just as good as the 2014 Ultegra on my Rose - can't fault it. Hope this helps …….


My budget will only be around 2k.......Rutland got some pretty good sales on right now, so I may head in their direction for a giant or another cube and roadify one of those instead like I have with the cube


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## Mcar33 (17 Nov 2018)

stevef069 said:


> I'm a US cyclist with the Gain M20i Limited on pre-order since early August. I received a call from the local shop yesterday and was informed Orbea has pushed back delivery to North America until mid January of 2019. Third such notice since I paid in full for the bike and getting concerned that at this rate the next generation of ebikes will hit the show rooms and I'll be stuck with older technology. I ask but nobody, including people in the Orbea USA, seem willing to answer my questions as to WHY. What's going on?



Hi Steve, I'm in CA, I've had first a D20 on order since June, then changed my order to an M30. My shop has contacted me letting me know Orbea is shipping D20s (and probably other D-series bikes) from their distribution in Little Rock mid November (so should be now) to dealers, and the M30 (and probably other carbons like yours) shipping out mid January as you've found out. So I'm expecting to finally have my bike under me hopefully 3rd week in January, over half a year later. 

I think Pinarello's Dyodo and Bianchi's Aria just became available in the US and they both use the same Ebikemotion and IWOC system as the Gain. So hopefully this technology will slowly mature over the next couple years and we won't be left behind too early.


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## Zofo (2 Feb 2019)

I’ve just put an order in for the M30 19 and taking delivery in early April. I had a test ride on the aluminium version a few weeks ago and absolutely loved it and was really sold. Killed all my Strava PRs on a hilly circular course I used as a tester.


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## Scaleyback (23 Feb 2019)

I am trying to take the last ‘big step’ and purchase the Orbea Gain, probably the 2019 D30 (Shimano 105) or the D31 (Sram 1by). I am undecided about the Orbea Gain sizing, after providing my height/leg etc etc measurements Epic cycles told me I needed a small size. Current bikes 1 x Felt & 1 x Boardman are both medium i.e 54cms. Furthermore Orbea’s own sizing chart says small = 5’1” - 5’7” I am approx 5’ 8 1/2” Can anyone who owns the Gain help and advise me please ?


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## Scaleyback (23 Feb 2019)

Ok, no feedback so I did it without you 

Orbea Gain D30 2019 (105 build) ordered this morning. Small size as advised by two different Orbea retailers.
Collection on tuesday, never thought I would find one in stock.
Small discount achieved (£100.00) plus fitted full mudguards and Schwalbe G-One 40mm tyres of my choice.
Extras included, all in price £2,500.00. Gulp


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## butomus (23 Feb 2019)

Happy new bike,I had a orbea the d40 after six weeks old it developed a error 24 the bike would not switch on just a constant pink light I took it back to the retailer they didn't have any idea how to fix it they contacted orbea who basically didn't want to know very bad customer service


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## robgul (23 Feb 2019)

butomus said:


> Happy new bike,I had a orbea the d40 after six weeks old it developed a error 24 the bike would not switch on just a constant pink light I took it back to the retailer they didn't have any idea how to fix it they contacted orbea who basically didn't want to know very bad customer service



How long ago was that? When the bike first came out they had some prototypes that had issues withe switch - although no excuse for not responding.

I've had a Gain for almost a year and so far no issues whatsoever .. in fact the range is better than I expected. I also have 3 customers at my shop with them and there is total delight (they are all experienced riders)

Rob


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## butomus (23 Feb 2019)

I had the bike in October 2018,I've since acquired a giant road e+pro2 which don't look as nice as the orbea but the quality is far better


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## Scaleyback (24 Feb 2019)

butomus said:


> Happy new bike,I had a orbea the d40 after six weeks old it developed a error 24 the bike would not switch on just a constant pink light I took it back to the retailer they didn't have any idea how to fix it they contacted orbea who basically didn't want to know very bad customer service



Are you going to finish this sad tale butomus and tell us what is the current position ? Under UK law the retailer is responsible for providing you with a bike ‘fit for purpose’ I am guessing you got a refund and purchased the Giant Road-e pro2 ?


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## butomus (24 Feb 2019)

Yes sorry I did get a full refund so purchased the giant road e+pro2


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## Scaleyback (24 Feb 2019)

butomus said:


> I had the bike in October 2018,I've since acquired a giant road e+pro2 which don't look as nice as the orbea but the quality is far better



Orbea must be doing something right ?

Orbea profits up 25% in 2018 driven by demand in USA and UK for the Orbea Gain.

ebikemotion who make the motors for the Gain and other bikes were 'acquired' in 2018 by the German Automotive Supplier Mahle
https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/mahle-intensifies-pedelec-activities/


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## butomus (24 Feb 2019)

My experience with riding the orbea d40 against the giant road e+pro 2 is the giant has a lot more pulling power


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## jowwy (24 Feb 2019)

butomus said:


> My experience with riding the orbea d40 against the giant road e+pro 2 is the giant has a lot more pulling power


Thats cause its 35nm more torque than the orbea........the orbea's mantra is " just enough power"....rather than slapping an mtb motor on a road bike like the road e+


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## robgul (24 Feb 2019)

jowwy said:


> Thats cause its 35nm more torque than the orbea........the orbea's mantra is " just enough power"....rather than slapping an mtb motor on a road bike like the road e+



The difference in weight between the Orbea (alloy versions) and the Giant is pretty big too . . . the Giant is also ugly, but that's a personal preference comment.

Rob


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## jowwy (24 Feb 2019)

robgul said:


> The difference in weight between the Orbea (alloy versions) and the Giant is pretty big too . . . the Giant is also ugly, but that's a personal preference comment.
> 
> Rob


I wouldnt say it was ugly....just more industrial looking with its big down tube battery and mamouth motor. Where as the Orbea is trying to be more road like in its looks and feel


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## Scaleyback (24 Feb 2019)

butomus said:


> My experience with riding the orbea d40 against the giant road e+pro 2 is the giant has a lot more pulling power



Yes, as already explained by jowwy & robgul , these are both 'pedal assisted bikes' in name but they have totally different aims. The Giant is super powerful and will propel the biggest most unfit rider to the top of the steepest hill. The Gain has approx half the power is some 6kg lighter and requires more input from the rider.
'Horses for courses' as the saying goes.


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## Scaleyback (2 Mar 2019)

I took delivery of an Orbea Gain D30 2019 a couple of days ago. This is the Shimano 105 build which has changed from the 2018 version.
I purchased the bike from Leisure Lakes (Lancaster branch) the only one in stock. I had full SKS mudguards fitted and Schwalbe G-One 38c tyres. The service and staff of Leisure Lakes was excellent.
As delivered the bike weighed 14.9 kg. (weighed on a Park Tool bike scale) I imagine the bigger tyres and mudguards may account for approx 0.9 kg ?

This is early days but here are my thoughts. To be relevant you need to know a little about me (sorry )
I am 72, 70kg, fit and healthy with no impediments to cycling (touching wood now




)
I have cycled 4,000 + miles for the last 3 years the highest total being 5,300.
I have a 8kg road bike with 11/32 'Granny gearing' that I shall keep. I can still ride up decent hills on this bike, 15% maybe a little more
without too much trouble. This is the Garmin Connect data from a ride on this road bike earlier this week.

Road Bike
Distance: 25.41 mi / Time: 1:37:05 / Avg Speed: 15.7 mph / Elev Gain: 1,578 ft / Avg HR: 118 bpm / Max HR: 145 bpm.

This same route was repeated 3 days later on my Orbea Gain. Small differences in mileage maybe due to different tyre circumference 25c vs 38c ?

Orbea Gain 1st ride.
Distance: 25.54 mi / Time: 1:35:28: / Avg Speed: 16.1 mph / Elev Gain: 1,555 ft / Avg HR: 114 bpm / Max HR: 138 bpm

The Gain was only ridden in 'lowest assist/eco/green' I was testing the bike and myself.

I never set out to race road bike v Gain, I rode reasonably hard (on both bikes)but certainly not 'eyeballs out'
My max HR is between 155 & 160 bpm. So my average HR for both rides was approx 75%.

Things to note, I was 1m 37secs faster on the Gain, my average speed was 0.4 mph faster on the Gain.
My average HR was a little lower on the Gain.

1,600ft of climbing with two long ascents, one of 1.7mi with a top gradient of 14% and one of 3.5mi with a top gradient of 11%.

I have no doubt that on a flatter/flat(ish) course I would be faster on the road bike. It is not 'rocket science' the more climbing the bigger the advantage to the Orbea Gain.

The next day I rode only the Gain.

Orbea Gain 2nd ride.
Distance: 16.54 mi / Time: 1:02:27 / Avg Speed: 15.9 mph / Elev Gain: 942 ft / Avg HR: 115 bpm / Max HR: 133 bpm.

The battery was not charged after ride 1. Again I used exclusively the lowest (green) assist level.

The battery voltage dropped to below 50% at the 40 mile point. I am very satisfied with this, 40 mile and almost 2,600 ft of climbing. But my average speed on both rides was over the 15.5mph assist cut-out point.
I never used the top two assist levels.

The motor assist 'cut in' is almost imperceptible as is the human 'take over. Full marks to Orbea.

This is a great bike for me, it is exactly what I want. The freedom to ride further/higher in and around the Yorkshires dales and know that if I overreach myself I have 'help' under me. But also to do it on a great looking bike that allows me to ride above the 15.5 mph assist level a good part of the time.

There are many old/older fit riders that I think this bike will be exactly what they want. But if you are looking for a 'pedal assisted' bike to do a large proportion of the work be very sure before you part with your 'hard earned dosh' that the Orbea Gain is 'up to the job'

Sorry, this has turned into a 'weighty tome' ,



I do hope I may have helped someone with a difficult decision.

Roy


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## Scaleyback (19 Mar 2019)

Well, I haven’t ridden my Orbea Gain much yet, (less than 100 miles) due to the horrible weather over the last week or so. 
A little more feedback.
I do not like the way you can only ‘cycle through’ the assistance levels one way ? I.e low > medium > high > off > low etc. Very strange that to go from high to low you have to move through off ! It needs good timing on the riders part as for that brief period (a few seconds) you are ‘on your own’  It certainly doesn’t change my high opinion of the bike but hopefully Orbea will find a way around this.
I had Schwalbe G-One 40-622 tyres fitted (actual size is 38c) along with full SKS mudguards. These are the largest tyres you will ‘get away with’ with mudguards fitted. In fact the front tyre is a little too large as under poor road conditions the front mudguard vibrates horizontally and the metal mudguard ‘stay’ catches the tyre and creates an intermittant ‘buzz’ ‘buzz’ noise. Many ? would just live with this. My fix ? I changed the front tyre to a G-One 35c giving a little more clearance between guard and tyre. It wasn’t 100% successful, still the occasional ‘buzz’ but I am living with it.
The ebikemotion ‘app’ seems to work well and with a suitable smartphone and bike mount the info and options available are very impressive. My thanks to 
our own *youngoldbloke* who helped me a lot with smartphone/mount choices.
Better weather this week at last but I am in the Lake district (no bike) so I look forward to getting some miles in when back home.


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## Scaleyback (29 Mar 2019)

An update for interested parties. 
The fine weather recently (long overdue) has allowed me to put some miles on my Orbea Gain.
Todays ride is the biggest test it/we have had so far:-

Distance: 40.15 miles
Time: 2:33:16
Avg Speed: 15.7 mph
Elev Gain: 2,697 ft

I still remain very impressed, with the exception of my do not likes in the entry above.

The roads around here are 'undulating' with constant little 5/6% short climbs and the occasional 10%+ longer climb.
The entire ride was in assistance level1. I find I can 'spin' up decent hills 15% ish if I get in my 'granny' gear and keep a high cadence.
It is comforting to know there is power in reserve should I (when I ) need it. 
The battery was showing 51% full when I got home and I am very happy with that.

On flat ground I do not find the weight of the bike much of a drawback, I spend a lot of the time above the 15.5 (ish) assist level
which of course is what allows me to get good mileage (imo) from the battery. Downhill of course the bike weight propels you (me)
faster than I'm comfortable with so I'm thankful for the powerful brakes.

I have 'fallen out' with the _ebikemotion app_ that tracks my ride on my phone. It crashed 3 times during this ride and the 1st two times
I lost the ride data. I probably shall not bother with it until they iron out the bugs. The above data comes from my Garmin 130
which gives me everything I need really.

Nothing much else to say really. This bike is exactly what I wanted. This is by necessity a very personal view and I appreciate we all need
different things from our bikes. Hopefully someone will find some relevance here.


Roy


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## jowwy (29 Mar 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> An update for interested parties.
> The fine weather recently (long overdue) has allowed me to put some miles on my Orbea Gain.
> Todays ride is the biggest test it/we have had so far:-
> 
> ...


Have to be honest if I had one I would convert to a 1x11 - 40t front and 11/42 rear just to ensure I had enough of a low gear to keep it spinning on the longer steeper climbs around were I live in South Wales


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## youngoldbloke (29 Mar 2019)

Very interesting to compare experiences - you are getting tremendous range Roy, I'm obviously needing to use more assistance, or riding below the cut off speed more, as I'm consistently getting 8 km to 10% charge, so that would be roughly 48 miles on a full charge. I've now ridden over 1000 miles on my Gain and that has remained pretty constant. I do get better figures when I'm riding with the club rides - towing me along over 15mph! Sorry to hear you've had problems with the app - all I can say is it was even worse before the most recent update (as you may have gleaned from my earlier posts!).



jowwy said:


> Have to be honest if I had one I would convert to a 1x11 - 40t front and 11/42 rear just to ensure I had enough of a low gear to keep it spinning on the longer steeper climbs around were I live in South Wales



Jowwy - the Orbea Gain D31 is their 'gravel' SRAM 1x11 version


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## Scaleyback (29 Mar 2019)

jowwy said:


> Have to be honest if I had one I would convert to a 1x11 - 40t front and 11/42 rear just to ensure I had enough of a low gear to keep it spinning on the longer steeper climbs around were I live in South Wales



I did consider the SRAM 1by version, (1 x 11) as ‘youngoldbloke’ points out the Gain D31 but having no experience of the 1by or indeed SRAM I decided to stay with what I know, Shimano 105. As it happens the only Gain within reach of me (80 miles) in stock for immediate purchase.


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## jowwy (29 Mar 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Very interesting to compare experiences - you are getting tremendous range Roy, I'm obviously needing to use more assistance, or riding below the cut off speed more, as I'm consistently getting 8 km to 10% charge, so that would be roughly 48 miles on a full charge. I've now ridden over 1000 miles on my Gain and that has remained pretty constant. I do get better figures when I'm riding with the club rides - towing me along over 15mph! Sorry to hear you've had problems with the app - all I can say is it was even worse before the most recent update (as you may have gleaned from my earlier posts!).
> 
> 
> 
> Jowwy - the Orbea Gain D31 is their 'gravel' SRAM 1x11 version


Pretty sure that sram one is pretty expensive though....a conversion can be done on the standard orbea for much cheaper.....just by removing the 2 chainrings upfront, adding a single and then using a wolf tooth roadlink and larger cassette....all those things I already have in my huge parts box in the man cave


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## Scaleyback (29 Mar 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Very interesting to compare experiences - you are getting tremendous range Roy, I'm obviously needing to use more assistance, or riding below the cut off speed more, as I'm consistently getting 8 km to 10% charge, so that would be roughly 48 miles on a full charge. I've now ridden over 1000 miles on my Gain and that has remained pretty constant. I do get better figures when I'm riding with the club rides - towing me along over 15mph! Sorry to hear you've had problems with the app - all I can say is it was even worse before the most recent update (as you may have gleaned from my earlier posts!).



Hi Peter, 
I am still testing myself and the bike to see what it/we are capable of. It seems on flatish ground I get around 1 mile per 1% of battery in level 1. 
For the first 10 miles of my outward leg today I used 20% of the battery and after 19 miles I had used 32% of the battery. Quite a lot of climbing but it was the wind that was a big factor, in my face for 19 miles and if that was an 8% wind I’m a dutchman. Coming home with a favourable wind I did 21 miles for a further 17% battery. Incidentally on an unassisted bike after 19 miles into that wind I would have probably been pretty knackered ?
Now I need to do some rides in level 2 and get some idea of battery use.
Yes, disappointed with the app, today was the 1st time I have had problems.
I stopped each time it crashed and tried to save the ride (failed) and restarted
the app but I am not making a habit of that.
I have asked ebikemotion about the crashes so I await their reply.
Regards.
Roy


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## derrick (29 Mar 2019)

A mate used there Ribble sle for a ride the other weekend, I think it's the same electrics as the Gain. 86 miles only using the motor on the hills, got back to the pub he still had 30% left in the battery.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2234437460


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## Scaleyback (30 Mar 2019)

derrick said:


> A mate used there Ribble sle for a ride the other weekend, I think it's the same electrics as the Gain. 86 miles only using the motor on the hills, got back to the pub he still had 30% left in the battery.
> https://www.strava.com/activities/2234437460



Yes derrick, Ribble SLe has the same ebikemotion electrics as the Gain (and there are others) I test rode the SLe (around Ribble's car park) before buying my Gain. 
I can well believe your mates mileage on the Gain based on my limited experience. 'Lesser' riders, and I do not use the term pejoratively 
are not going to achieve anything like that mileage of course. I believe the 3 assist levels on these bikes are rated 30%, 60% and 100% battery drain,
plus stronger riders are going to be above the 15.5mph assist cut-off for longer. For the right rider it seems a great system.


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## derrick (30 Mar 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Yes derrick, Ribble SLe has the same ebikemotion electrics as the Gain (and there are others) I test rode the SLe (around Ribble's car park) before buying my Gain.
> I can well believe your mates mileage on the Gain based on my limited experience. 'Lesser' riders, and I do not use the term pejoratively
> are not going to achieve anything like that mileage of course. I believe the 3 assist levels on these bikes are rated 30%, 60% and 100% battery drain,
> plus stronger riders are going to be above the 15.5mph assist cut-off for longer. For the right rider it seems a great system.


Yes its great for Paul. It enables him to do the longer rides. I am trying to talk my other half onto one.


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## youngoldbloke (30 Mar 2019)

29miles/46.7km club ride this morning, 49% charge used - so that's roughly 60 miles/96km range. Being a 'lesser' (no offence taken!) rider, I'm obviously using more assistance than those with functioning legs. Not a very hilly ride today but I still needed to use level 1 assistance throughout plus level 2 when necessary. Level 3 only on the steeper bits - hardly at all today. Riding with the club much of the ride was at 14+ mph pace, and a lot at over the 15mph cut off - hard work for me as I can no longer ride a conventional bike for more than very few miles before my legs fail me, so riding without any assistance is not really possible for me.


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## Scaleyback (30 Mar 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> 29miles/46.7km club ride this morning, 49% charge used - so that's roughly 60 miles/96km range. Being a 'lesser' (no offence taken!) rider, I'm obviously using more assistance than those with functioning legs. Not a very hilly ride today but I still needed to use level 1 assistance throughout plus level 2 when necessary. Level 3 only on the steeper bits - hardly at all today. Riding with the club much of the ride was at 14+ mph pace, and a lot at over the 15mph cut off - hard work for me as I can no longer ride a conventional bike for more than very few miles before my legs fail me, so riding without any assistance is not really possible for me.



That is also a very healthy mileage Peter leaving plenty of battery reserve for you. Well done on your ride and for refusing to ‘give in’ when many with less excuse retire to their couch.


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## NickWi (30 Mar 2019)

I’m a week late with this, but it was my D20 1st Birthday last week, so he’s my thoughts and observations on one-years ownership and approx 1,500miles of riding. No particular order, just as thoughts come to mind.

i. My bike came with 40mm Kenda Flintridge gravel tyres, absolutely horrible on the road, it felt like riding through treacle. I changed them to a pair of 32mm Marathon Plus; V heavy and a dull ride. In the end I swapped to a pair of 28mm Pirelli P Zero 4S and they’re great. I knew the bike would come with 40mm mixed use tyres and I knew I was going to have to change them to make the bike what I wanted, but it was the right spec, at the right price (and given that Gains were rarer than rocking horse do doos at the time), it was both in stock and thet dealer was offering an Easter holiday 10% dscount I snapped it up knowing I’d have to make a couples changes to suit my use.

ii. Tyres (and changing saddle) aside, I’ve left the main components stock and everything still goes, starts, stops as it should. The groupset is Sram Riva l (1x11) and year later it’s clicking as smooth, fast and accurate as the day I got it. The OEM saddle is a good one, (Prologo Kappa) and it might suit some, but it’s not the shape of my bum.

iii. Paint. Mines a bright Orange one and the paint isn’t a robust as it should be. I’ve several chips where I’ve accidently caught the frame when taking off my front light. That said, everything washes down and cleans & polishes up nicely.

iv. Accessories. I’ve added a pair of Crud Roadracer MK3 mudgaurds, a black alloy rack (sorry can’t remember the make) as well as a rackpack bag and the usual lights, bottle cages and computer mounts.

v. Ebikemotion App. Used it a few times to start with but it drained the battery faster than stolen Corsa on a Saturday night. I now only ever use it, out of curiosity really, to so see what’s left in the battery post ride. I’m not bothered at all by the data it produces about how much power/assistance you were using and when. Interesting to start off with, but I rapidly lost interest. The Cadence sensor is hopelessly inaccurate.

The ebikemotion app also has an auto function to automatically change the assistance level depending on your heart rate, provided of course you’ve paired your HMR to your phone. It’s rubbish. For me it didn’t kick in early enough on a hill then continues to give full assistance once you’re over the top of the hill. Maybe I didn’t explore settings full, but a manual change in anticipation of a hill does it for me.

vi. Talking of changing power assistance levels, I agree with the Top Tube button being a bit of phaff, but you do get used to it, however it would take leap of the imagination to design something better.

vii. Still talking about Power Settings, I reduce the power of the lowest power setting to either 50% or 75% depending on the hilliness of the ride. I’ve kept level 2 & 3 at 100% on the grounds I’m riding an ebike FFS and what’s the point of lugging round all that extra weight if you can’t put the bugger into full power and make those hills easier.

viii. Range, pretty much what Orbea claim, though it’s bit less in cold temperatures. As long as you remember it's an electrically assisted bike rather than and electric powered bike you'll be okay.

ix. Rival 1 Hydraulic Disc Brakes; Bloody Brilliant, the best brakes I’ve ever had!

x. What don’t I like? Not that much really. As mentioned above changing the power lever is a bit of a phaff, but as I also said, you get used to it. It of course weighs in at much more than any modern road bike, but at 13.5kg it’s no more than my old 531st touring bike and I’ve pedalled across large parts of France and the Alps on that without regret. Removing the rear wheel isn’t as easy as on a steam powered bike, but no worse than any hub geared bike, however one of the most annoying things are the questions. Is that and ebike? Where’s the battery, is that really the motor, what’s the range, how heavy is it and many many more. I don’t mind answering them, but maybe I should approach Orbea and ask for some commission.

As I said these as just my ramblings and apologies for the length of the post, but if you’re thinking of buying an Orbea Gain I’d thoroughly recommend it. It is as Orbea say, designed to enhance your ride, not dominate it.


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## Scaleyback (31 Mar 2019)

NickWi said:


> I’m a week late with this, but it was my D20 1st Birthday last week, so he’s my thoughts and observations on one-years ownership and approx 1,500miles of riding. No particular order, just as thoughts come to mind.



Nice write up NickWi,

Good to hear you are still happy with the bike after 1,500 miles. I have only put 200+ on mine but so far like you I am happy. I would even go
so far as to say very impressed. 
" Still talking about Power Settings, I reduce the power of the lowest power setting to either 50% or 75% depending on the hilliness of the ride. "

I seem to remember reading something about that, can you remind me how it's done please ?

" Ebikemotion App. Used it a few times to start with but it drained the battery faster than stolen Corsa on a Saturday night. "

Does it really ? How do you prove that, ? do the exact same ride twice in the same conditions (difficult I guess) once with the app and once without ?


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## NickWi (1 Apr 2019)

To change the power assist levels, first you've got to have your phone paired to the bike othewise the option isn't listed. So pair, go to Settings (at the bottom of the list on my Android device) and Engine Settings (below Connect to EBM on Andraoid). You get a warning, then it shows you a bar graph type diagram. Edit, (top right on Android), tap on which assistance level you want to change and adjust the slider across the bottom. Finally Save, again top right. It probably took longer to type it out han it does to do.

Ref Ebikemotion App; I guess battery life depends on your phone ,condition of the battery within and what else your phone is doing in the background. My Samsung S5 is getting on a bit now and it's still on it's original battery, but connected it only lasts an hour at most. Maybe newer phones with better condition and/or bigger batteries are better, I don't know and I've got nothing else to compare it to, but as I said, I've given up using the app whilst riding so it's not a concern.


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## youngoldbloke (1 Apr 2019)

I find the app quite useful, but as I've posted before, lots of problems with it until the recent update. But I don't use a Garmin or any other device on the bike - so the speed, distance, % charge left etc are helpful. The distance covered figure now seems fairly accurate too. I'm using a Motorola Moto E5 with a big battery and have plenty of charge left after a morning's ride. I also find the assistance level figure shown on the screen of help as you no longer need to look at the IWOC button when changing levels.


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## Scaleyback (1 Apr 2019)

Many thanks NickWi.


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## Scaleyback (1 Apr 2019)

So far I have predominately ridden in level1 assist and I have now got a good idea of the bikes range (and mine) with the minimum assist,
Yesterday I rode with level2 assist set as my default level and I used level 3 maybe 6 times on any gradients above about 6%. My Garmin has
a barometer so is pretty accurate. What to say but Wow ! at 5' 9" and 70kg I am a decent climber but it has been a few years since I rode
undulating roads at this sort of pace.
Garmin ride details are :-
Distance: 25.65 mi
Time: 1:30:18
Avg Speed: 17.0 mph
Elev Gain: 1,867 ft
Avg HR: 123 bpm
Max HR: 143 bpm

Here is the Assist & Consumption plot from the 'App'







Oh, I forgot the 1st mile I was in level1. No red spikes means no battery drain e.g over the 15.5mph assist level. The 2 big blocks of level3 at 8m and 19m are long climbs of around 2 miles with a max gradient of 14%
I hope I do not sound boastful but for me these climbs on level 3 are not difficult. I still had 57% battery when I got home which surprised me, I thought it would
be a lot less. I used the app this time with no problems, the last ride when the app kept crashing I was using a bluetooth HR monitor,
maybe there was some conflict with the BT connection between the bike and the app ? I'm guessing. I used an ant+ HR monitor this ride.
This bike impresses me more every time I try something new.


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## Zofo (13 Apr 2019)

Just had my first ride on the Orbea Gain M 30. Over rolling hills covered 48 miles with 4000ft climbing before battery finally gave out-average speed 15.4mph.
Initial thoughts are impressed with the ride quality. First time I’ve ridden with tubeless tires, set the pressure at the recommended 72 psi for 28 mm. I’ve gone for the blue/red frame, however be warned if you are considering this the colour is actually a Day-glo orange – I am seriously considering getting the frame re-sprayed fairly soon! 
I rode mainly in level one & two – my only criticism it’s very hard to distinguish between the orange light and the red light in strong sunlight so can be a bit confusing what level I was in. I like the fact that the motor doesn’t dominate the ride, it can be like riding with a tail wind or much more of a kick when going uphill depending on how hard you pedal. 
Will report back with further updates on subsequent rides .


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## Scaleyback (14 Apr 2019)

Hi Zofo,
M30, basically the same bike as my D30 but with a carbon frame I believe. ?
Yes, I agree about the orange and red lights in sunshine. I have quickly learned to always know what assist level I'm in plus how to move through the assist levels without looking down. 48 mile with 4,000 ft of climbing seems pretty decent. I have 'adjusted' my 3 assist levels down to 80%. I guess this will give longer battery range ? although not the reason I have done this, I like to work hard !
My tyres are 35c front and 38c rear and I ride about 60 psi. I am happy to lose a little potential speed for this very comfortable ride. I don't think the carbon
frames allow such wide tyres do they ?
I used to live in Leicestershire (Hinckley way) until I moved north in 2010. Leicestershire, pretty flat mostly I always used to think, where are your hills ?
Keep us informed, always interested to hear other folks ride experiences.
Roy


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## Zofo (16 Apr 2019)

Hi Roy,

Yes my M30 is full carbon frame, fitted with 105 group set, hydraulic discs and tubeless tyres. Interested to hear you have adjusted your level three down to 80% – how have you managed to do that? I’m on the East Leicestershire border close to Rutland and Northamptonshire where there are a lot of short sharp climbs around 8 to 12% -it’s amazing how quickly the vertical ascent stacks up on a three hour ride. I bought the Gain to continue riding as I have a problem with my blood pressure which goes too high when I’m exercising-in fact my doctor advised me to stop cycling altogether, which clearly I’m not doing! 

I found the technique for riding with the Gain on rolling hills is somewhat different to my regular bike where I’m used to really pushing at the bottom of a climb to take as much free speed with me whereas now I realised the sooner the bike gets to 15.5 mph the sooner the motor will kick in. So now I’m coasting up into a climb instead -trying to keep my heart rate under 130bpm. 

Interested to hear your thoughts as well.


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## derrick (16 Apr 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> So far I have predominately ridden in level1 assist and I have now got a good idea of the bikes range (and mine) with the minimum assist,
> Yesterday I rode with level2 assist set as my default level and I used level 3 maybe 6 times on any gradients above about 6%. My Garmin has
> a barometer so is pretty accurate. What to say but Wow ! at 5' 9" and 70kg I am a decent climber but it has been a few years since I rode
> undulating roads at this sort of pace.
> ...


Nothing to boast about you are on an electric bike.


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## Scaleyback (16 Apr 2019)

Zofo said:


> Hi Roy,
> 
> Yes my M30 is full carbon frame, fitted with 105 group set, hydraulic discs and tubeless tyres. Interested to hear you have adjusted your level three down to 80% – how have you managed to do that? I’m on the East Leicestershire border close to Rutland and Northamptonshire where there are a lot of short sharp climbs around 8 to 12% -it’s amazing how quickly the vertical ascent stacks up on a three hour ride. I bought the Gain to continue riding as I have a problem with my blood pressure which goes too high when I’m exercising-in fact my doctor advised me to stop cycling altogether, which clearly I’m not doing!
> 
> ...



Hi again Zofo,
To adjust the assist levels you need the ebikemotion ‘app’ When you are logged in and near to the bike (connects via bluetooth) there is a menu item called ‘engine’ this shows 3 vertical bars (assist levels) tap to choose level, use bottom slider to adjust, then save. 
So yes, your M30 has the same groupset & hydraulic discs as my D30. 
I tried tubeless tyres recently on a different bike, sorry to say I found it a dreadful ‘faff’ and I couldn’t get the tyres to seal, I gave up. 
I do not know that side of Leicestershire very well, sounds like I have avoided some hills ?
Do you ride with a HR monitor ? on many of them you can set an ‘alert’ at a given bpm. Apologies if you know all this.
I guess you meant ‘ the sooner the bike gets to 15.5 mph the sooner the motor will _kick out. ? _
Glad to hear you are enjoying your Gain.


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## Zofo (17 Apr 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi again Zofo,
> To adjust the assist levels you need the ebikemotion ‘app’ When you are logged in and near to the bike (connects via bluetooth) there is a menu item called ‘engine’ this shows 3 vertical bars (assist levels) tap to choose level, use bottom slider to adjust, then save.
> So yes, your M30 has the same groupset & hydraulic discs as my D30.
> I tried tubeless tyres recently on a different bike, sorry to say I found it a dreadful ‘faff’ and I couldn’t get the tyres to seal, I gave up.
> ...



Hi Roy,

Nice to hear back from you.

I wouldn’t have chosen tubeless and somewhat apprehensive about what happens if I have a blow out as I’ve read they are a nightmare to get off/on! I reckon I’ll swop them out for some good old Conti 4000s very soon.
Yep I wasn’t very clear I meant the sooner the bike goes under 15.5 mph the sooner the motor kicks in. I do ride with a HRM and try and keep under 130 bpm.You have missed a lot of hills around Oakham/ Uppingham region —you should give it a try sometime !


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## Scaleyback (19 Apr 2019)

Zofo said:


> Hi Roy,
> 
> Nice to hear back from you.
> 
> ...



I keep reading where 'tubeless' is the way to go to avoid punctures, however they (the poster/reviewer) then usually refers to 'pinch punctures'
Now I understand pinch punctures are far more likely on offroad riding MTB trails etc where you are far more likely to hit a sharp edge/rock and
the inner tube gets pinched on the rim.
I have used sealant (Stans NoTubes) in all my bikes inner tubes for a couple of years now. Only possible with a tube that has a central removable valve core
(Schwalbe tubes do) Then get a 100ml plastic syringe https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-100-150mL-Plastic-Reusable-Syringe-PZor-Measuring-Nutrient-Sterile-Tube-BXN/323217403277?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=20160908110712&meid=fe402ca49d91485e83951a1d25e7c517&pid=100677&rk=2&rkt=30&sd=253310085780&itm=323217403277&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598
and you can introduce the required amount of sealant directly into the tube.
I have used this sealant in 25/28/35/38c tubes. I have only had a couple of punctures but both times after losing air from the tyres the sealant has plugged the hole and it's just a matter of putting more air in the tyres and your cycling again. Of course it's not foolproof, if the hole/split in the tyre is too big the
sealant cannot seal it. 'Weight weenies' will not like this fix ? they will be horrified at the thought of carrying a few grams of extra weight in their tubes.


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## Zofo (22 Apr 2019)

Having now ridden approx 200 miles on my M30, thought I’d note some observations for those who are contemplating pressing the button on one:

1. The bike really comes into its own on rolling terrain where my average speed is typically around 15-16 mph so a good percentage of the ride is spent at under 15.5 mph and there are plenty of longish climbs to go at. On flatter rides with average road speed 16.5 mph+ I’ve found there is little advantage to be had as for most of the ride I’m moving at over the cut off limit for the motor so the extra weight -13kg -means I’m putting in significantly more effort than would be required on my regular road bike. This is very apparent when on a group club ride and the pace is being pushed.

2. The motor seems to me to be more effective when spinning at a reasonably high cadence up climbs -eg 80 +rpm. I’ve no real way to prove this but I get the impression it is more laboured if grinding away at 65-75 rpm.

3 Battery range is between 45-60 miles depending on terrain -as above. I’ve thought it would be a real improvement if somehow the battery could be charged by the freewheel and/or braking effect as some hybrid cars are. 

4 The bike is very cumbersome to ride up any significant gradient without assist at all -once the red light starts blinking fast I have approx 500 ft climbing left .


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## Storck (22 Apr 2019)

Zofo said:


> Having now ridden approx 200 miles on my M30, thought I’d note some observations for those who are contemplating pressing the button on one:
> 
> 1. The bike really comes into its own on rolling terrain where my average speed is typically around 15-16 mph so a good percentage of the ride is spent at under 15.5 mph and there are plenty of longish climbs to go at. On flatter rides with average road speed 16.5 mph+ I’ve found there is little advantage to be had as for most of the ride I’m moving at over the cut off limit for the motor so the extra weight -13kg -means I’m putting in significantly more effort than would be required on my regular road bike. This is very apparent when on a group club ride and the pace is being pushed.
> 
> ...



Yes, sweet spot is around 75rpm. This week riding in eco mode only, I covered I29 miles, on one charge, average speed of 14.9mph over four rides. I have still 4% of charge left, all done on rolling roads. Every ride was done with a strong easterly blowing. Riding predominantly North to South, I always had a side wind. Gotta say, I'm delighted with this battery performance.


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## Zofo (22 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> Yes, sweet spot is around 75rpm. This week riding in eco mode only, I covered I29 miles, on one charge, average speed of 14.9mph over four rides. I have still 4% of charge left, all done on rolling roads. Every ride was done with a strong easterly blowing. Riding predominantly North to South, I always had a side wind. Gotta say, I'm delighted with this battery performance.



129 miles on one charge-must have been some following wind ! Seriously tho how have you done that on rolling terrain ?You must have spent most of your rides above 15.5 mph for the battery to last that long.


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## Scaleyback (22 Apr 2019)

Zofo said:


> 129 miles on one charge-must have been some following wind ! Seriously tho how have you done that on rolling terrain ?You must have spent most of your rides above 15.5 mph for the battery to last that long.



I agree, that seems very good battery range. Of course "all done on rolling roads " is very open to interpretation. I would be interested in seeing the accurate
elevation gain over the ride. I would also say " average speed of 14.9mph over four rides " seems to disprove Zofo's comment " You must have spent most of your rides above 15.5 mph for the battery to last that long "


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## Storck (22 Apr 2019)

Good Friday ride. 35.6 miles, avg 14.79 mph, battery consumption 48.20 watts. Yes I can ride above 16mph for long periods. However avg speed suggests I must be riding on edge of assist zone going "in n out" I have noticed? I now ride a couple of gears higher, especially on hills. Can't show you elevation, on the app like with the cadence readings are all over the place. But what remains is, the bike is sat in snooker room with flashing red, app indicating 4% charge remaining, total miles covered 129 at avg speed 14.9 mph. The Mio computer I use on my handlebars disagrees only very slightly with the app figures. Will keep you posted for future ride info?


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## youngoldbloke (23 Apr 2019)

Hi Storck - given your obvious good levels of strength and fitness I'm wondering why the Orbea Gain? OK, you can answer 'why not?', but being able to ride a relatively heavy bike above the cut off speed for long periods , why not just a conventional lightweight carbon road bike? Do you ride a conventional bike as well - a Storck maybe? Just wondering.


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## derrick (23 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Hi Storck - given your obvious good levels of strength and fitness I'm wondering why the Orbea Gain? OK, you can answer 'why not?', but being able to ride a relatively heavy bike above the cut off speed for long periods , why not just a conventional lightweight carbon road bike? Do you ride a conventional bike as well - a Storck maybe? Just wondering.


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## Storck (23 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Hi Storck - given your obvious good levels of strength and fitness I'm wondering why the Orbea Gain? OK, you can answer 'why not?', but being able to ride a relatively heavy bike above the cut off speed for long periods , why not just a conventional lightweight carbon road bike? Do you ride a conventional bike as well - a Storck maybe? Just wondering.



Yes, I do have a Storck (incredibly light) also Trek Domane (new) and Basso. I also have had a heart attack and kidney transplant. Both of these have left me half the rider I was. I can no longer do hours of continuous riding or much climbing. The Gain, is the ideal solution for me. I enjoy it so much? That come Autumn a D road version is getting ordered, that takes a full mudguard. BTW, I have my gain shod with the Mavic Carbon Wheels running on 25mm Hutchison Fusion 5.


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## youngoldbloke (23 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> Yes, I do have a Storck (incredibly light) also Trek Domane (new) and Basso. I also have had a heart attack and kidney transplant. Both of these have left me half the rider I was. I can no longer do hours of continuous riding or much climbing. The Gain, is the ideal solution for me. I enjoy it so much? That come Autumn a D road version is getting ordered, that takes a full mudguard. BTW, I have my gain shod with the Mavic Carbon Wheels running on 25mm Hutchison Fusion 5.


Hope you didn't mind me asking - the Gain sounds ideal for you.


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## Pale Rider (24 Apr 2019)

A Storck was the first ebike I tried around 2010.

Not many high end roadie brands made ebikes in those days.

I went to the distributor in Gateshead, although it looks like they no longer deal with Storck.

https://www.storck-bikes.com/de/e-bike


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## Storck (24 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Hope you didn't mind me asking - the Gain sounds ideal for you.



No, didn't mind at all, in fact gives me the opportunity to share my idea on maybe why I'm getting excellent mileage each charge? As I mentioned earlier, the Gain seems to like revs? Sweet spot is around (for me) 75/80rpm. Now while not a big gear masher, I have always rode with a low cadence (average 65) I've noticed on hills you get little assist climbing out of the saddle pushing a larger gear. Sit down, start spinning the assist kicks in noticeably, obviously using more juice. So are those magnets on the lock ring looking for higher revs to provide assist? Does my lower cadence style of riding inhibit the amount of assist provided? Just throwing out there my observations, I'm surprised at the amount of mileage it's giving me, considering my average speed over 320 mies is 14.8mph. Under the 15.6 cut off.


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## Zofo (27 Apr 2019)

Interesting point regarding low cadence and battery life -could well explain things as I’ve always been a fairly fast spinner, 90rpm flats and 80 on climbs. Personally I would definitely avoid grinding away up climbs at 60rpm on a bike that weighs 13kg, not good on the knees at all.


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## Storck (27 Apr 2019)

Knees are still good, it's everything else about me that's shot. Don't know how you manage riding at 80rpm? I feel that I'm bouncing all over the bike. Got to be with all the racing I did? Back in the 60's BIG gears was the way to go. Wish I could spin a little more like you. BTW, climbing in n out the saddle, never felt like grinding away. Always felt natural. Going to do some different comparisons with lower and higher cadence over battery usage. Let you know what if any conclusions I draw? You know, still got my 60's Bob Jackson 531 racing bike. Only very slightly lighter than the Gain.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2019)

We have to appreciate that getting 120 miles out of one battery charge over 4 separate rides is probably not a good guide to battery performance over a single long ride ? You are resting between rides and therefore presumably asking 'less' of the battery when starting fresh and strong each ride ?

Taking this ride of mine (from an earlier post here)
Distance: 40.15 miles
Time: 2:33:16
Avg Speed: 15.7 mph
Elev Gain: 2,697 ft
49% of battery used

I could assume that I would get 80+ miles and 5,400ft (1645 meters) but I wouldn't of course because I would be knackered and the battery would be progressively taking more of the load.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

You have to be happy with those figures though Scaley? Pretty good giving their quoted expected returns.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Hi, sorry to jump in on this thread (first post), but I am thinking of getting either the D30 or M30 and I was wondering, based on you experiences, Scaleyback and Storck, whether you think the carbon frame is worth the extra over the alloy framed D30. I am a "young" 45 year old but have back issues that prevents me from putting maximum power through the pedals. I always struggle up hills because of this and find that on my Carbon Trek Emonde (8kg) I only average 15-16mph on flattish rides (far worse on hills so I avoid them!), hence why I am looking at an Orbea Gain. I do not ride in groups or clubs, only on my own or with a couple of friends. Fitness is not an issue - I am a runner and can run 41 minute 10ks and 1:34 half marathons, but cycling is proving problematic. Any advice would be gratefully received.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> You have to be happy with those figures though Scaley? Pretty good giving their quoted expected returns.



Yes, I’m more than happy with the battery performance and in fact the Orbea Gain. I’m a pretty strong rider for my age, I’m not trying to boast I don’t want to
give the wrong impression about this bike. Many people who are looking to purchase a ‘pedal assisted bike’ will be looking for a more powerful motor than
this.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Yes, I do believe some folks will be disappointed with the Gain, unless they do their homework carefully before purchasing. Like you, it fulfils all my expectations in what I required. Which where fairly modest.


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## youngoldbloke (28 Apr 2019)

Short ride today, tried staying in the small ring, spinning - 12.69 km/14% battery used - pretty much as usual. Well over 1000 miles now and this has been consistent, approximately 8km per 10% of charge. Unlike you guys I've not got much leg strength anymore - which is why I bought the Gain, but it does what I need, and I'm very happy with it. It is one of the 2018 alloy ones, so maybe a bit heavier. I do find the UK 15.5 mph cut off annoying though as it is hard for me to keep up with the group over long distances above that speed on club rides. Gives me a good workout anyway!


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Short ride today, tried staying in the small ring, spinning - 12.69 km/14% battery used - pretty much as usual. Well over 1000 miles now and this has been consistent, approximately 8km per 10% of charge. Unlike you guys I've not got much leg strength anymore - which is why I bought the Gain, but it does what I need, and I'm very happy with it. It is one of the 2018 alloy ones, so maybe a bit heavier. I do find the UK 15.5 mph cut off annoying though as it is hard for me to keep up with the group over long distances above that speed on club rides. Gives me a good workout anyway!



What assist level are you mostly using YB?


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Hi, sorry to jump in on this thread (first post), but I am thinking of getting either the D30 or M30 and I was wondering, based on you experiences, Scaleyback and Storck, whether you think the carbon frame is worth the extra over the alloy framed D30. I am a "young" 45 year old but have back issues that prevents me from putting maximum power through the pedals. I always struggle up hills because of this and find that on my Carbon Trek Emonde (8kg) I only average 15-16mph on flattish rides (far worse on hills so I avoid them!), hence why I am looking at an Orbea Gain. I do not ride in groups or clubs, only on my own or with a couple of friends. Fitness is not an issue - I am a runner and can run 41 minute 10ks and 1:34 half marathons, but cycling is proving problematic. Any advice would be gratefully received.



For me Southern I decided to wait for the carbon version. Not necessarily to have a lighter bike, but purely for comfort. Over the decades I've owned many Steel, Alloy and Carbon frames bikes. I recall the Vitus 979 coming out and purchasing one. Having ridden both the Alloy and Carbon Gains, it came as no surprise the M version is smoother and more compliant on the road. This is the usual case. That said I will be ordering a D version for winter riding, with it's ability to take mudguards (something to consider) With you having back problems, I believe you would find the M Gain more suitable, for your situation?


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## youngoldbloke (28 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> What assist level are you mostly using YB?


Level 1 throughout - minimum - undulating ride. On a longer ride I'll use all 3 levels as required, but I try to use no more assistance than is absolutely necessary. My calf muscles will only allow 2 - 3 flat miles now on a conventional bike before pain forces me to stop - and that's on an 8kg Rose Xeon, so obviously the Gain is assisting me a lot. Not completely pain free, but really happy to be able to ride a reasonable distance again.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Really pleased for you that the Gain is helping you with your cycling. You are also helping confirm what I believe to be the case? Higher cadence (under the cut off point) is probably using more of the charge, than a lower rpm for the same speed? Here's hoping for good weather after The Crucible has finished in order to put theory to the test? Will keep you posted.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Hi, sorry to jump in on this thread (first post), but I am thinking of getting either the D30 or M30 and I was wondering, based on you experiences, Scaleyback and Storck, whether you think the carbon frame is worth the extra over the alloy framed D30. I am a "young" 45 year old but have back issues that prevents me from putting maximum power through the pedals. I always struggle up hills because of this and find that on my Carbon Trek Emonde (8kg) I only average 15-16mph on flattish rides (far worse on hills so I avoid them!), hence why I am looking at an Orbea Gain. I do not ride in groups or clubs, only on my own or with a couple of friends. Fitness is not an issue - I am a runner and can run 41 minute 10ks and 1:34 half marathons, but cycling is proving problematic. Any advice would be gratefully received.



Hi Southernguns, well speaking personally (and I'm betting the others agree ?) please do not apologise for 'jumping in. This thread will hopefully benefit riders of all ability/ages/shapes and sizes and the more riders experiences we get the better.
I also ride a 8kg carbon road bike (a Felt ) and when I get off the Gain onto the Felt it feels like I am flying  until I hit a mile long climb peaking at 15%. 
I don't consider 15-16mph average too bad but if you are sometimes riding with friends of a similar age I'm guessing they are a fair bit faster than that.
The single biggest factor when climbing is (as you probably know) w/kg (watts per Kilogram) That is your weight plus the bike weight v gravity. 
I am thinking you will save 1kg max by getting a carbon frame over an alloy frame. Do you have a kilo of body weight you could spare to lose ? 
Quite honestly if you struggle to get up hills on a 8Kg bike the Orbea Gain is going to be a great help, but unless money is no object I would get the D30.
Be wary of makers claims for bike weights, 'on the road' they are always going to be heavier than presented in 'marketing language'
All just my opinion of course.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2019)

Reading Storck's 129 miles on a single battery charge interested me and I found it very believable.
I did a ride today over what is probably the flattest 20 miles I can find around here.
Turned out it was 568ft (173 metres) of climbing.
I 'pressed on' as they say but not ‘eyeballs out’ and these are the essential stats from my Garmin 130.
Distance: 20.07 mi
Time: 1:14:15
Avg Speed: 16.2 mph
Elev Gain: 568 ft
ebikemotion app reports 91% of battery still remaining ! I kid you not, I was expecting around 85% remaining.
By the way, I ride with a high cadence 80-90rpm I find it more efficient (for me) and easier on the knees

So this gives me a potential range in similar conditions over the same course of 11 x 20 = 220 miles.
Yes, I know its not real world cycling, who wants to ride the same course over and over. Plus throw in a few decent climbs
and this potential range will quickly tumble.
Incidentally my D30 weighs 16.3kg (on the road) this is with full mudguards, Schwalbe G-One 38c Gravel tyres.
Rear seat pack with spare tube/pump/levers etc. Garmin 130 + Garmin Varia RTL510 rear light. No water bottle.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Don't forget Scaley, there's also your own weight to consider? What I do find encouraging perhaps more than any other data, with that kind of potential mileage been possible? Is going to be a longer shelf life for the battery, requiring less frequent charging.


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## youngoldbloke (28 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> Really pleased for you that the Gain is helping you with your cycling. *You are also helping confirm what I believe to be the case?* Higher cadence (under the cut off point) is probably using more of the charge, than a lower rpm for the same speed? Here's hoping for good weather after The Crucible has finished in order to put theory to the test? Will keep you posted.


I'm not sure that I am, I've tended to use the 50T chainring a lot more since I've had the Gain, often climbing hills in the big ring that I would have been climbing using the 34T in my unassisted past. I'm not usually spinning. For me cadence seems to make little difference. Am I right in thinking that as I'm not able to put much energy through the pedals the motor is working that much harder for me to attain any given speed than it would for someone capable of inputting more power?


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'm not sure that I am, I've tended to use the 50T chainring a lot more since I've had the Gain, often climbing hills in the big ring that I would have been climbing using the 34T in my unassisted past. I'm not usually spinning. For me cadence seems to make little difference. Am I right in thinking that as I'm not able to put much energy through the pedals the motor is working that much harder for me to attain any given speed than it would for someone capable of inputting more power?



You have first of all confirmed what I have discovered? I'm riding a couple of gears higher, ans rarely dropping down to the inner ring for all but the steapest of climbs. And yes, the less input in the way of torque through the pedals, then the motor is assisting more. But then again? That's one the reasons for such a bike. Enjoy.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> For me Southern I decided to wait for the carbon version. Not necessarily to have a lighter bike, but purely for comfort. Over the decades I've owned many Steel, Alloy and Carbon frames bikes. I recall the Vitus 979 coming out and purchasing one. Having ridden both the Alloy and Carbon Gains, it came as no surprise the M version is smoother and more compliant on the road. This is the usual case. That said I will be ordering a D version for winter riding, with it's ability to take mudguards (something to consider) With you having back problems, I believe you would find the M Gain more suitable, for your situation?





Storck said:


> For me Southern I decided to wait for the carbon version. Not necessarily to have a lighter bike, but purely for comfort. Over the decades I've owned many Steel, Alloy and Carbon frames bikes. I recall the Vitus 979 coming out and purchasing one. Having ridden both the Alloy and Carbon Gains, it came as no surprise the M version is smoother and more compliant on the road. This is the usual case. That said I will be ordering a D version for winter riding, with it's ability to take mudguards (something to consider) With you having back problems, I believe you would find the M Gain more suitable, for your situation?



Hi Stork. Thank you for your quick reply. I was somewhat thinking along the same lines as I have read about alloy frames being a little less compliant. Having not ridden one for many years I am a little nervous about the D30. However, adding mudguards would be a huge benefit, so I need to do some more thinking.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Southernguns, well speaking personally (and I'm betting the others agree ?) please do not apologise for 'jumping in. This thread will hopefully benefit riders of all ability/ages/shapes and sizes and the more riders experiences we get the better.
> I also ride a 8kg carbon road bike (a Felt ) and when I get off the Gain onto the Felt it feels like I am flying  until I hit a mile long climb peaking at 15%.
> I don't consider 15-16mph average too bad but if you are sometimes riding with friends of a similar age I'm guessing they are a fair bit faster than that.
> The single biggest factor when climbing is (as you probably know) w/kg (watts per Kilogram) That is your weight plus the bike weight v gravity.
> ...


Hi Scaleyback. Thank you for your quick reply. At 76 kg I could certainly do with losing 1-3 kg! Hopefully the Gain will help me to do that. Yes, my friends are generally waiting for me at the top of any incline or hill when I am riding with them. When they ride on their own they average speeds of about 18-20mph over hillier terrain than I am currently able to ride. As Storck mentioned, the carbon M30 may be more compliant and therefore, more comfortable but the idea of mudguards for winter is drawing me back to the D30. I notice the D31 comes with wider tyres which may soften the ride, I guess, but it does come with SRam 1x gearing which I have no experience of. Generally I rarely use the 50 tooth chainring and tend to use the lower to middle cogs of the cassette whilst on the 34 tooth chainring on my Trek Emonda, so maybe the 1x will not be so different? If anyone has any experience of this then any advice would be most helpful.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> Don't forget Scaley, there's also your own weight to consider? What I do find encouraging perhaps more than any other data, with that kind of potential mileage been possible? Is going to be a longer shelf life for the battery, requiring less frequent charging.



Yes, that’s correct, the battery has a finite number of charge cycles
But if it is the same as the the Bosch batteries ( and I believe it is ) 
It is the ‘depth’ of the charge that counts. E.g 5 20% charges = 1 charge.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

I'm lead to believe, you should never charge too 100% and then leave standing without using? If ya gonna do so? You should use immediately. Also another factor to consider that will have a big impact on battery life is? Storage. I have mine along with my Trek chained to a BIG snooker table leg. Although the table is in converted stable, during the winter months it is heated 24 hours, never dropping below 15c (for the benifit of the table) Consideration should be given for the cold months on storage, if best performance is to be extracted from the battery? I believe the batteries are Panasonic?


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Southern, if it's gonna be an all year bike? No question about it for me, you have to have guards on. From late October til January (when it gets colder and drier) you know well how damp our roads are, no pleasure in riding in those conditions without. Many times without a bike with guards fitted has stopped me going out. You could also make a alloy frame bike ride smoother by riding with tubeless tyres. Tubeless tyres, equals less pressure in them. And the Gain comes with TLR tyres as standard.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Okay, not only am I learning a lot, I am also going to have to do a lot more thinking. I only generally dry weather ride, but if I am to increase my cycling mileage then wet weather will be a serious consideration. Tubeless tyres sounds like an interesting idea. I think someone here (Scaleyback or youngoldbloke?) tried them and found it hard to get a seal. How do these work if you get a puncture? Sorry for the noob questions!


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Okay, not only am I learning a lot, I am also going to have to do a lot more thinking. I only generally dry weather ride, but if I am to increase my cycling mileage then wet weather will be a serious consideration. Tubeless tyres sounds like an interesting idea. I think someone here (Scaleyback or youngoldbloke?) tried them and found it hard to get a seal. How do these work if you get a puncture? Sorry for the noob questions!


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Well, first of all, the Gain comes with Mavic wheels. Mavic have looked at the disparity between TLR wheel manufacturers and tyre makers. They have (and have requested for world standards to be utilised using their specifications) produced a set of wheels and tyres that fit as easily as standard rims and tyre's. So no problem in cold weather trying to fit tight tyres onto rims. Should you puncture with TLR's they will in the majority of situations seal the leal with the injected sealent. On the odd occasion the cut won't seal? You can still use a standard inner tube in the tyre. Because TLR's can and should be run at a lower pressure, they not only make for a more smoother ride, it also reduces the risk of puncturing.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Ah that makes sense. Thank you. The more I read about the Gain the more I am liking the sound of it! I am thinking it should be perfect for my needs . Thank you for all your help !!


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Ah that makes sense. Thank you. The more I read about the Gain the more I am liking the sound of it! I am thinking it should be perfect for my needs . Thank you for all your help !!



Happy to be of assist. One last point. If you're thinking of going down the 11 speed route don't forget? With the assist, myself and others have found you can ride using a couple of higher gears. So, there's the possibility you could find yourself under geared? Especially with increased fitness and weight loss.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

That is good to know. Would the D30 / M30 cope okay with canal paths, bridleways and gravel tracks? I would like to occasionally ride these (say 80% road and 20% "off road"), although this isn't a game changer.


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## Storck (28 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> That is good to know. Would the D30 / M30 cope okay with canal paths, bridleways and gravel tracks? I would like to occasionally ride these (say 80% road and 20% "off road"), although this isn't a game changer.



That's one of it's strengths. With the ability to take such a wide tyre and clearence, yes is the answer.


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## Southernguns (28 Apr 2019)

Perfect.. Thank you once again. I just need to decide between D30 and M30 taking into account all the advice from yourself and Scaleyback. Your help has been very much appreciated.


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> That's one of it's strengths. With the ability to take such a wide tyre and clearence, yes is the answer.


Isn't it possible to fit mudguards to the carbon frame version?


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## Scaleyback (29 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Isn't it possible to fit mudguards to the carbon frame version?



To the best of my knowledge, no and max tyre size on the carbon frames is 28mm. The Ribble sLE carbon has the same drawbacks.



Southernguns said:


> Perfect.. Thank you once again. I just need to decide between D30 and M30 taking into account all the advice from yourself and Scaleyback. Your help has been very much appreciated.


 
As you have stated a preference for mudguards that would rule out the carbon frames.



Southernguns said:


> That is good to know. Would the D30 / M30 cope okay with canal paths, bridleways and gravel tracks? I would like to occasionally ride these (say 80% road and 20% "off road"), although this isn't a game changer.



As stated above I wouldn't consider the M30 suitable for " canal paths, bridleways and gravel tracks? " The D31 is the gravel bike version of the D30. (I have the D30) However if you are reluctant to go for the SRAM 1 x 11 setup (as I was) the D30 has the proven (to me) Shimano 105 r7000 11 speed groupset. 
I ride my D30 down the occasional canal towpath, bridleway etc and the bike and tyres (see below) manage nicely. On bad surfaces (mud) you may need a tyre with more tread.

The D31 has the Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622, Black, Folding gravel tyres as standard. (actual size38c) these are brilliant tyres I have fitted them on my D30.
so now I have the equivalent of the Gain D31 gravel bike but with the tried and tested Shimano 105 groupset. No other differences.
Incidentally the D30 came with the Hutchinson Fusion 5 All SeasonTLR 700x28 I have changed many tyres in my 'cycling life' but I found these the worst ever to
remove/replace. In desperation I cut them off in the end ! I cannot imagine trying to repair a puncture roadside. 

If you go for the D30 and upgrade to wider tyres and mudguards I found the aforementioned Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622 a little too large (on the front wheel only) I had my SKS full length mudguards fitted by the Gain retailers mechanic. It wasn't until I got it home and rode it over bad surfaces that I discovered
that vibration caused the metal mudguard stay to touch the tyre and create an annoying 'zizzz' sound. I tried adjusting the front guard but never cured it.
Final solution I purchased a Schwalbe G-ONE Allround 35-622 tyre. The small extra clearance between mudguard stay and tyre stopped this.
There are other suitable gravel tyres of course maybe a set of 32c ?

There is talk (some on this thread) about the extra ride comfort of carbon frames. Not all carbon frames are equal, there are carbon frames that will remove
the fillings from your teeth. I'm not saying that the Orbea Gain carbon frame is one of these, I don't know but I doubt it.
If you want 'ride comfort' why not achieve it by fitting bigger tyres as opposed to a carbon frame.

Ok, most of this is rehashing previous comments in this thread (many by me) I hope this sort of summary helps.

Roy


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## Southernguns (29 Apr 2019)

Hi Roy. Thank you again for your help. I did look at the Ribble SLe and discounted it as I wanted something that I could use on rougher tracks. I thought the Ribble CGR ALe would be perfect but they are as rare as hens teeth at the moment. This led me to the Orbea Gain. 

I think you have indicated earlier in the thread about the effects of a bikes weight on hill climbing. My research indicates that it is not as much as one would think. Admittedly racers and mountain enthusiasts, where cyclists climb for many miles, would need to consider this, but not so much for me. Like you said, I am better off losing a few kg myself. Aerodynamics have a greater effect on speed, apparently, so the only real reason to go for the carbon frame would be comfort and better wheels. However, my cycling ability probably doesn't warrant spending £700 more for the carbon bike with the better wheels, as tempting as the M30 is. With all this in mind then, the D30 is probably the bike I will go for with wider tyres for comfort. So I will probably take your advice and fit either 32c or 38c tyres to allow for the odd "off road" adventure. As soon as my back recovers again, so that I can get back on a bike I will order one. Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later and I can let you all know how I am getting on with it. Thank you muchly for the advice and help. Happy cycling!


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2019)

The CGR AL e 105 certainly looks like a contender. Maybe by the time you are ready to buy there will be a few more available. BTW I'm using 28mm Continental GP4000SIIs on my Gain (they measure 32mm in reality) with no problems and they cope well with the rougher roads.


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## Southernguns (29 Apr 2019)

That's good to know. do they roll nicely on the road as well?


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> That's good to know. do they roll nicely on the road as well?


Yes, very well. Very light too. If I was doing much rougher stuff than the odd towpath or similar I'd fit something a bit more substantial. I'm quite light too at 62kg.


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## Southernguns (29 Apr 2019)

Okay, that is very helpful thank you. I see from the thread that you are enjoying the Gain which is great to see. Do you still ride non epowered bikes as well?


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Okay, that is very helpful thank you. I see from the thread that you are enjoying the Gain which is great to see. Do you still ride non epowered bikes as well?


I have 4 conventional bikes gathering dust - an early '90s Peugeot 525 Reynolds steel, a Ribble 7005SL Alloy, Campag equipped. A 'Triggers Broom' Rapide RL3 framed bike (originally a Ribble 'Blue') winter bike, Tiagra, and a Rose Xeon, Ultegra carbon. Unfortunately I've developed peripheral arterial disease (apologies if I've said all this before) - the blood supply to both legs has become severely restricted, now I can only walk a couple of hundred yards before cramping pains begin to set in, and similar pain after 2 - 3 miles on a non-assisted bike forces me to stop. Surgery is possible but potentially complex and risky - loss of limb at worst, so put off until unavoidable. So for now, it's the Gain only - it's enabled me to ride reasonable distances and to take part in club rides again.


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## Southernguns (29 Apr 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I have 4 conventional bikes gathering dust - an early '90s Peugeot 525 Reynolds steel, a Ribble 7005SL Alloy, Campag equipped. A 'Triggers Broom' Rapide RL3 framed bike (originally a Ribble 'Blue') winter bike, Tiagra, and a Rose Xeon, Ultegra carbon. Unfortunately I've developed peripheral arterial disease (apologies if I've said all this before) - the blood supply to both legs has become severely restricted, now I can only walk a couple of hundred yards before cramping pains begin to set in, and similar pain after 2 - 3 miles on a non-assisted bike forces me to stop. Surgery is possible but potentially complex and risky - loss of limb at worst, so put off until unavoidable. So for now, it's the Gain only - it's enabled me to ride reasonable distances and to take part in club rides again.


Wow, sorry to hear that! Full credit to you for getting back out there and riding still - I take my hat off to you. It sounds like the Gain is the perfect solution for you and it is fantastic that there is the technology out there to allow you to do this. My injuries are much less serious than yours, I have a repeating ruptured disc in the spine (the only real cure is an operation which I am nervous about as it is so close to the spinal cord) and ligament and muscle damage in the lower back and pelvis. Interestingly, when fit I am able to run at a reasonable pace without worry, but increase the speed and it plays up and then I have to take 5-6 months out. So just over a year ago I decided to cross train, run less but use a bike to maintain the fitness for my running races thinking this would help. The only problem is I find that I am unable to put power through the pedals. Not really too much of an issue on the flat as I can spin along at a reasonable speed, but as soon as I come to a hill I am only able to spin up them and I get left way behind, or if on my own get frustrated. The gearing on my Trek doesn't help much either! Hence my thinking of the Gain. Also, I like to heart rate train, and I found on my current bike that my heart rate was often going higher than I wanted. The Gain should help to control this better. As it happens I am really enjoying the cycling and may even give up the running to enable me to cycle more - but only recreationally (I will never make a racer)

Out of interest, how do you rind the ride of the D30 compared to your other bikes? I have not ridden an alloy bike for years so am a little nervous that it will be a harsh ride. However, Scaley's and Storck's tyre suggestions have somewhat put my mind at rest.


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## Scaleyback (29 Apr 2019)

I think you are both real ‘troupers’ for continuing to ride and refusing to take the easy option and give up. I almost feel a fraud when owning/riding this bike without any real impediments apart from a 72 year old body


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## Southernguns (29 Apr 2019)

I just hope I can ride or run at 72! There is nothing fraudulent about it. You could go out and buy the lightest bike on the market with the easiest gearing on the market to get you up hills, but you would not get enjoyment and would struggle to keep up with others, especially on flats. At the end of the day sport is for all - regardless of age, ability, physical impairment or size. Most importantly it is about enjoyment, and at whatever level you are at if something assists you in continuing to do something you enjoy, to a level that makes you happy, then who is anyone to say otherwise. Pro's look for any advantage to gain an edge. In swimming certain costumes have been banned due the advantage they gave athletes, but for a few years they were used, however, it did not make those pro swimmers frauds. Lyndsey Vonn skied on men's downhill skis in women's races because they were stiffer which gave her an advantage, Phil Taylor trained with a specially made dart board where the double and triple sections were narrower than on a competition board, a 72 year old at my snooker and pool club used to play at national level but now uses a cue that reduces throw and deflection as it improves his game because he now finds it harder to aim. I would not say that any of these would be considered frauds. They are just making use of what is available to them to do what they enjoy at the level they enjoy. I just love talking, meeting and seeing people who are overcoming whatever impairments they have to continue doing sport, and also people who are pioneers in training ideas and use of equipment developments. It would not surprise me if in the future bikes like these are used in various training environments across a range of sports at varying levels. For me it will be the perfect tool for base training in running, whilst reducing the injury risk caused by pounding the pavements for 40 miles a week in my running shoes. It will keep my heart rate in the correct zone whilst being able to get out and explore with friends. Anyway, looking at your times and speeds of the rides you have posted, they are faster than I can ride and you are nearly 30 years my senior. There is nothing fraudulent in that my friend. Keep up the cycling and the good work!!


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## Storck (29 Apr 2019)

New update available for Ebikemotion app.


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## Scaleyback (30 Apr 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I just hope I can ride or run at 72! There is nothing fraudulent about it. You could go out and buy the lightest bike on the market with the easiest gearing on the market to get you up etc !



Well ‘Southernguns’ my “ fraud “ comment was a little ‘ tongue in cheek ‘ but I enjoyed reading your fulsome reply and a big thank you from me for your kind words.


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## Scaleyback (30 Apr 2019)

Storck said:


> New update available for Ebikemotion app.



I haven’t been using it for a while, except to check my battery state after a ride.
Any info on what has been updated/improved ?


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## youngoldbloke (30 Apr 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I haven’t been using it for a while, except to check my battery state after a ride.
> Any info on what has been updated/improved ?


"Resolve minor bugs (very infrequent crashes). Comply with new Facebook Platform Policies. Send logs for stats in in Firebase"
_"very infrequent crashes"_ !!!!!! 



Scaleyback said:


> I think you are both real ‘troupers’ for continuing to ride and refusing to take the easy option and give up. I almost feel a fraud when owning/riding this bike without any real impediments apart from a 72 year old body


Thanks Roy - actually for me cycling is the easy option.


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## Kemilyon (9 May 2019)

Hello everyone. I just ordered an M20i LTD in the US, supposed to receive it in 3 weeks or so. There wasn’t a dealer who had one on the showroom floor within 500 miles so I purchased without a test ride. Only done this once before and still have the bike after 7 years so hoping I have another good experience. I’m 38, was an avid cyclist/racer for many years before breaking both of my feet in a fall and going through surgeries and recoveries the past 4 years. Have been shopping for e-bikes for a couple months, test rode a lot of the class 3 bikes popular here in the US but to varying degrees they didn’t quite feel like a “real” road bike. I think with the Gain I’ve landed on just what I want. I look forward to sharing my experience with you all, seems to be a great bike!


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## youngoldbloke (9 May 2019)

Hi Kemilyon, and welcome. That's quite some bike! Look forward to hearing all about it.


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## Southernguns (11 May 2019)

Well I have just test ridden a gain D50 (in bright orange) and, after considering everyone's advice, I have ordered the D30 in black. It should be here in a week. I really fancied the D31 but they seem rarer than hens teeth. I am all excited to get it and get out on the road (and the odd trail). I just hope my back and hip injury resolves itself in time. I will keep you posted.


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## robgul (11 May 2019)

Ah - the orange! I would have had that colour if it had been available when I bought my Gain, although I like the matt grey/black [I have customer at the shop with a non-electirc Orbea in orange - stunning!]

Rob


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## Southernguns (11 May 2019)

Yes, I was very tempted by the Orange - it did look great and was available. I think it even made me feel like I was riding faster! But on a test ride I went through a town and everyone was looking. Being the shy retiring type, I prefer to be a little more incognito. Also - less risk of being Tango'd (for those of you that remember the advert).


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## Southernguns (11 May 2019)

Interestingly at 184cm tall I thought (and according to Orbea's sizing charts) that I would need the large sized bike. I test road a medium though, as it was all they had in, and it felt fine. I have read that some people think the Gain is measured slightly big, but others disagree so I guess the verdict is still out there on this. Maybe I am just a weird shape!


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## robgul (11 May 2019)

No - I'm 6'4" and expected XL but was advised to have an L and that's the right size - unlike Italian cycle jerseys Spanish bikes are bigger than expected


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## Southernguns (12 May 2019)

robgul said:


> No - I'm 6'4" and expected XL but was advised to have an L and that's the right size - unlike Italian cycle jerseys Spanish bikes are bigger than expected


That's reassuring. I was worrying a little that I had shrunk!


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## Storck (12 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> That's reassuring. I was worrying a little that I had shrunk!



If further confirmation required? I too have the medium, normally would have purchased a large. Even with a low head tube (compared to my Trek Domane) the medium feels just right. Large, would have been too big.


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## NickWi (12 May 2019)

That also makes sense with the sizing of the Large. I'm 6'0" and the size of the Gain it comparable with my other bikes at 23 1/2" or 590mm.

Also, did my first Audax of the year today, lo & behold there was another Gain on it. Different groupset to mine, but same bright Orange!


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## SpokeyDokey (12 May 2019)

Nicest e-bike I have seen.

My friend purchased one in Spain and it is absolutely stunning.

At first I didn't realise it was an e-bike and although I'm not sure of its weight it didn't exactly feel heavy.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Orbea-Gain-M20-Carbon-2019


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## Scaleyback (12 May 2019)

I have the orange Gain D30, always my 1st choice colour.


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## Storck (12 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Yes, I was very tempted by the Orange - it did look great and was available. I think it even made me feel like I was riding faster! But on a test ride I went through a town and everyone was looking. Being the shy retiring type, I prefer to be a little more incognito. Also - less risk of being Tango'd (for those of you that remember the advert).



I'm pleased to hear everyone was having a look, that's why I chose the warm orange. No, not out of vanity? But for safety reason's? To be seen by motorists. Since I've found Carnac cycling gloves in the same colour along with an orange road jersey for warmer days. I also regardless of the amount of sunlight, ride with a flashing rear light. My next bike I purchase, a Gain "D" will also be orange coloured. You need all the help you can get, to be seen on our crowded roads.


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## Southernguns (12 May 2019)

Storck said:


> If further confirmation required? I too have the medium, normally would have purchased a large. Even with a low head tube (compared to my Trek Domane) the medium feels just right. Large, would have been too big.


Thank you for the reassurance, Storck. I agree, I think the large would have been too big. The LBS is fitting 32mm tubeless tyres instead of the standard 25/28mm. This should hopefully aid comfort, be good on the road and be suitable for entry level gravel riding - thanks again for the advice on this one Storck and Scaleyback.


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## Southernguns (12 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I have the orange Gain D30, always my 1st choice colour.


I think Orange is the colour to go for and I considered for a long time. However, I always like the idea of bright colours but in reality my tastes are quite reserved and I much prefer whites, grey and blacks. I even drink Guinness!


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## Southernguns (12 May 2019)

Storck said:


> I'm pleased to hear everyone was having a look, that's why I chose the warm orange. No, not out of vanity? But for safety reason's? To be seen by motorists. Since I've found Carnac cycling gloves in the same colour along with an orange road jersey for warmer days. I also regardless of the amount of sunlight, ride with a flashing rear light. My next bike I purchase, a Gain "D" will also be orange coloured. You need all the help you can get, to be seen on our crowded roads.


Safety is a big issue, obviously, and I think the orange would look great with black shorts and black/orange jersey, orange gloves and orange helmet. Everyone I spoke to prefers the orange Even the LBS manager was trying to get me to buy the orange (he had an M20 in blue and orange which looked stunning. It was kitted out with extras and was £6,000. If money was no object I would have had that), but despite my heart saying orange, my head kept whispering black.


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## magesh (13 May 2019)

Hello All:

New to this group & thought I would share my exp' on the Orbea Gain D21. I got it on May 3rd with a 40mm tubeless setup. 

Intro: I'm a 52 year old guy in Portland, OR and got into biking about 8 years back, 4+ years got into MTB & a year back or so into gravel. I used to ride my Norco Indie or my Norco Torrent for the gravel rides. 

I test rode, 40 miles, a D40 several weeks back and loved the experience. It felt like an extension to my riding capabilities as opposed to a limitation/cheating. I was hooked. I have wanted a gravel bike to my quiver & ordered a D21 that arrived 2+ weeks later. I picked it up on 3rd May. 

I rode 9th May, on a 35 mile / 2800 ft. There was only one extended gravel climb and the rest of it was on road. I used the assist throughout to gauge the ebike app & the bike battery. 
Battery Remaining: 25%
Phone Battery decreased by 30%. (reason being, I'm on T-Mobile & they are not known for the best coverage & hence I know I lost some battery due to signal pings.)

On May 11th, I did another 35 mile / 3200 feet, of which 80% was on gravel. I used the bike battery only on the major climbs for about 2 minutes each & toggled between green & orange levels. 
Battery Remaining: 73%

Takeaway:
I have got some grief on my purchase from my fellow roadies & MTB'ers on this purchase and I believed them initially. But knowing what I know now, I'll not go back, for some/all of these reasons:

- My knees don't hurt as much
- I enjoy my climbs more
- I see my cadence getting better
- Psychologically, its a huge mental relief, knowing there is a 'friend' to help you if needed. Whether I use it or not is my prerogative. 
- I want to ride more & the threat of a headwind or a hill is mitigated. 
- I come back home with more energy left to tackle the rest of the day.

. This bike weighs about 35 lbs (sans water bottles) and my speed on the climbs were not any faster than my regular bike. And on the flats or downhills, in excess of 20+ mph, there is ZERO value to the motor. 
. On the steep grades, the bike does have better traction than my other bike. It may be because of the rear weight; or just better tires.
. The iWoc switch was easy to use by the end of the 2nd ride. I did not have to look down to see what mode/level I was in. Since its a cycle (ON > LOW > MED > HIGH) it was easy to judge what mode was I was in. It took the same effort of reaching for your water bottle.

- And I know I'll be riding alone on some of my rides going forward. :-(.
- When I started riding 8+ years back, there was the goal to reduce weight, get better, keep pace lines, compare speed/elevation/etc. 
- The past 2 years, I have got social, with stops to enjoy the ride; look around me & soak it in ... AND just enjoy being on the bike. Simple.

Anyhow, I'm thankful I got the bike & hope to put a lot (s)miles on it. 

Rubber to the road always.

Cheers,
M

P.S:: Shout out to the LBS, Veloce Bicycles, for helping with this bike - demo & purchase. Its been a great experience so far.


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## youngoldbloke (13 May 2019)

I picked the 'anthracite' one. I like the understated subtle grey/black mix. All my bikes are black/grey, so why change? Club kit is bright orange, black and white anyway, and a totally orange bike would have been a bit over the top 
edit - see pics earlier in the thread

edit again - hi magesh - and welcome! Good to read your review.


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## Storck (13 May 2019)

magesh said:


> Hello All:
> 
> New to this group & thought I would share my exp' on the Orbea Gain D21. I got it on May 3rd with a 40mm tubeless setup.
> 
> ...



Sounds Magesh as though you're one happy chappie? You have every right to be so. Great choice you made. Come back and let us all know how you doing, and your experience of riding the bike?


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## Scaleyback (19 May 2019)

I know there are many interested in this bike so a current update on my experience.
Close to 600 miles completed on my Gain D30 ( I also ride a non-assisted road bike) I have to say this is the perfect pedal assisted bike for me.
I have just finished my 4th ride without needing to charge the battery. Total of 90 miles, 3,600ft of climbing 16.1mph avg speed and the
ebikemotion app shows 42% battery remaining. Admittedly not a lot of climbing for this mileage.
I am 72, 70kg and a pretty strong rider with no handicaps so you have to factor the rider in when looking at these figures.
" Just enough" I believe is Orbea's claim for the assistance on this bike and that describes it brilliantly.
I deliberated long and hard before buying this bike as I was concerned I would lose some fitness and stamina riding an assisted bike ?
If that has happened it is negligible. Riding this 16kg (on the road) bike, most of the time above the 15.5mph assist levels certainly
helps the fitness. I rarely if ever move out of the lowest assistance level 1 which again helps with the fitness. Incidentally I have 'dialled down'
the assistance levels to Level1 (lowest) 90% Level2 80% and Level3 70%. Many may say " why bother to buy the bike" and that is fair comment.
Apart from the fact I like nice shiny new bikes  It is reassuring to know the assistance is there when needed and age related decline is cetainly
noticeable over the last few years and it ain't gonna go away. 
Absolutely brilliant bike providing you do not expect high levels of assistance over large distances.


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## Big-Andy (23 May 2019)

Hello everyone. I am new here and have just bought myself a new "old stock" D30 2018. Its basically the 2019 D40 with different rims and tyres but as I am not bothered about the rims it was a bargain buy for me. Tyres - I have read this forum on the GAIN and would like to know what tyres you suggest for a larger (19st) rider? The bike comes with the `Kenda 28c tyres but I read a lot of people here are not happy with them. I am not a serious rider so will only be doing 10 mile rides on mainly road and cycle paths so I don't need speed or weight saving, just a it of all weather grip and as much puncture resistance as possible. In addition to the tyres, is it worth buying the tubes that can have sealing gel applied too, or is this a bit of overkill? I won't say money is no object but I do have a budget for sensible extras too so given I probably won't be buying shoes and pedal clips etc, can anyone recommend a good set of "flat" pedals?

Also, havens seen anyone mention how long the GAIN battery takes to charge??
Andy


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## NickWi (24 May 2019)

If you're after an extreme puncture resistance tyre Schwalbe Marathon Plus are the way to go, particularly the latest 'Smart Guard' version which has a whopping 5mm thick band of puncture protection below the tread. BUT they're heavy and reports by some riders say they don't like the way they feel on the road.

Like you I’m no lightweight and on my Gain ( D20 Alloy 1x11) I use 28mm Pirelli P-Zero Velo 4s as I do prefer a lightweight tyre. When I bought them (just over a year ago) Pirelli marketed them as a lightweight rod, but all weather tyre with extra puncture protection. My Gain has now accumulated some 1,500miles and I've just had my first puncture with them so their puncture protection claims seem to sound reasonable to me. That particular tyre might be too lightweight for you, but tyre technology seems to have taken massive steps forward in the last few years and as with my choice of tyres it isn’t difficult to find good tyres that offer the best of both worlds.


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## Big-Andy (24 May 2019)

NickWi said:


> If you're after an extreme puncture resistance tyre Schwalbe Marathon Plus are the way to go, particularly the latest 'Smart Guard' version which has a whopping 5mm thick band of puncture protection below the tread. BUT they're heavy and reports by some riders say they don't like the way they feel on the road.
> 
> Like you I’m no lightweight and on my Gain ( D20 Alloy 1x11) I use 28mm Pirelli P-Zero Velo 4s as I do prefer a lightweight tyre. When I bought them (just over a year ago) Pirelli marketed them as a lightweight rod, but all weather tyre with extra puncture protection. My Gain has now accumulated some 1,500miles and I've just had my first puncture with them so their puncture protection claims seem to sound reasonable to me. That particular tyre might be too lightweight for you, but tyre technology seems to have taken massive steps forward in the last few years and as with my choice of tyres it isn’t difficult to find good tyres that offer the best of both worlds.



Thanks for the advice. The bike shop only deal in Maxxis/Continental/Specialized so if I had a choice of Conti Contact Plus City or the Marathons (I would fit them myself after delivery) is there much of a difference there or are they pretty much the same type/weight/feeling of tyre?


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## T4tomo (24 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Thanks for the advice. The bike shop only deal in Maxxis/Continental/Specialized so if I had a choice of Conti Contact Plus City or the Marathons (I would fit them myself after delivery) is there much of a difference there or are they pretty much the same type/weight/feeling of tyre?


Was conti 4 seasons as Choice? Those in 28mm would fit the bill. Don't bother with the slime gel-awful stuff.


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## youngoldbloke (24 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Thanks for the advice. The bike shop only deal in Maxxis/Continental/Specialized so if I had a choice of Conti Contact Plus City or the Marathons (I would fitted them myself after delivery) is there much of a difference there or are they pretty much the same type/weight/feeling of tyre?


I fitted Conti GP4000s to my Gain as I wanted to save a bit of weight and I
have them on my other non ebikes, but I am half your weight. If you are only riding 10 miles or so I'd stick with the original tyres until they're worn enough to need replacement. Forget the slime tubes, especially if you do fit new tyres, you'll just be adding weight back.


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## Big-Andy (24 May 2019)

T4tomo said:


> Was conti 4 seasons as Choice? Those in 28mm would fit the bill. Don't bother with the slime gel-awful stuff.



Thanks for the heads up on the slime, I will give it a miss. I have opted for https://www.continental-tires.com/bicycle/tires/city-trekking-tires/contact-plus-city
instead of the KENDA tyres that would have come with the bike. I am more interested in not having to sort out punctures than I am in rolling resistance or weight so it seemed a fair option. It hasn't cost me anything to have them put on so I guess I can always buy some Marathons if I dont get on with them.
Can anyone confirm real world charging times on the GAIN please?


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## Big-Andy (24 May 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> It's here- at last! Orbea D30 (the Tiagra one). Picked it up yesterday. Pics show it as fresh from the shop, SPDs and bottle cages to be added and one or two other little changes to be made -tyres to GP4000Sii (just what are Kenda Krankfish, other than very heavy?) 14.3kg as shown.
> 
> View attachment 424583
> View attachment 424584
> ...


Did you add the spacers on the headset yourself, If so which ones did you buy?


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## youngoldbloke (24 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Did you add the spacers on the headset yourself, If so which ones did you buy?


Spacers came with bike, as specified after fitting. I also wanted the option of keeping the steerer quite long but I would actually be quite comfortable with slightly lower bars. So they are Orbea stock alloy, 3 x 10mm spacers below the stem and 1 x 10mm above. What spacers are on your stem? 
As to charging times - I can't really answer - not long. I've never had to charge from 'empty', as it were - I'm normally charging from around 35 - 45% minimum and it never seems very long - couple of hours maybe? Anyone?


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## NickWi (24 May 2019)

Same here, I've never timed it. Plug it in, leave it for a couple or three hours whilst I get on doing something else. Come back to it, the White light's on pemanently, it's charged.


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## Big-Andy (24 May 2019)

Again, great info guys. I havent actually received the bike yet so dont know what comes with it in terms of spacers; hence my question. Its not as though I will be limited by the charging cycle but was curious as to how long it takes and its not something thats freely advertised. I am not an experienced rider, in terms of distances covered, but have ridden bikes all of my 50+ years of age (excluding the first 5) and I am now hoping to get fit by resurrecting my cycling experiences. If it keeps me out of the pub and means I burn calories its got to be good.......


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## Scaleyback (24 May 2019)

[QUOTE="Big-Andy, post: 5633505, I am now hoping to get fit by resurrecting my cycling experiences. If it keeps me out of the pub and means I burn calories its got to be good.......[/QUOTE]

You are right Andy, every little helps . . . exercise I mean. However cycling is a very efficient form of transport and I would suggest you are going to need to drastically ‘scale up’ those 10 mile cycle rides to get fit and burn sufficient
calories to make a real difference. I am ‘rooting’ for you. Here’s hoping
you become a bona fide ‘mamil’ and are knocking out 50 mile sportives
In the future.
Remember, it is good advice to talk to your doctor before embarking on
an exercise program.


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## Big-Andy (25 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> [QUOTE="Big-Andy, post: 5633505, I am now hoping to get fit by resurrecting my cycling experiences. If it keeps me out of the pub and means I burn calories its got to be good.......



You are right Andy, every little helps . . . exercise I mean. However cycling is a very efficient form of transport and I would suggest you are going to need to drastically ‘scale up’ those 10 mile cycle rides to get fit and burn sufficient
calories to make a real difference. I am ‘rooting’ for you. Here’s hoping
you become a bona fide ‘mamil’ and are knocking out 50 mile sportives
In the future.
Remember, it is good advice to talk to your doctor before embarking on
an exercise program.[/QUOTE]
Scaleyback, I have an erratic heart (AF/SVT), I am diabetic and also suffer from DVT's as a result of heart surgery so feel that a little assistance from the back hub will come in handy. I really appreciate your thoughts on fitness etc but I think i made it clear that I am not going to cycle purely for fitness or to see how far i can push myself but anything I can do to improve my exercise and reduce the time I spend in my car (which is a very nice car I may add) will only be to my benefit. My office is about 16 miles from my home office and the local rail service has several stops enroute so I can start off with gentle commutes and extend them as I get more confident and my fitness grows, getting off further and further from the office as time goes.
For me its more about a gentle return to cycling rather than a full blown onslaught into ECO travel. I have read lots of updates to this part of the forum and can see that there are varying levels of cyclist on here, its great to read, but I will start off as a bit of a slow-coach and hope to improve from there. I love the feedback and information I have read on here and hope I can help out other newbies as they arrive. I appreciate that a D30 isn't really a first bike for some people but it suits my purpose and satisfies my mid-life urge to buy another motorbike.
Regards
Andy


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## Scaleyback (25 May 2019)

Hi again Andy, 
If I spoke out of turn and offended you I apologise. I obviously did not know your medical history. I meant well, I’m a big believer in making the effort no matter what position you start from. Chapeau !


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## Big-Andy (25 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi again Andy,
> If I spoke out of turn and offended you I apologise. I obviously did not know your medical history. I meant well, I’m a big believer in making the effort no matter what position you start from. Chapeau !



Absolutely no offence taken by your comments, I really do appreciate them. I was just trying to explain why for me, it might be a slower return to distance cycling and the bike will hopefully help with that.
Andy


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## flobees (25 May 2019)

Hi everyone, I am new here and looking at getting the Orbea gain most probably the D31. I am only 5"1 and it is hard to find bikes my size. Is there anyone here with an xs frame on the gain? I am in columbus Ohio and unfortunately don't have any shops here that carry the Orbea gain in an XS. Just wanted to make sure that it will fit me. I have a Giant mt in XS and loved that bike but I am getting on in age and just want to ride and have fun with my family and be outdoors. So i am going to be buying the bike blind without test riding it first. any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Scaleyback (25 May 2019)

Hi flobees, welcome.
Just be aware the Orbea Gain comes in large against a lot of other makes.
Many buyers have purchased one size down from their normal fit. 
I include myself in this, I have always has medium ( around 54cm) but after
getting all my dimensions the Orbea dealer recommended a small size for me.
This has proved correct in my case.


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## flobees (26 May 2019)

Thank you for your reply. Hmmm ..... a lot to think of I have had my heart set on the Gain for a long time this is sad. Cos I am normally on the XS size and they don't make any smaller. I like how the Gain cos they don't look like an Ebike , at the moment I ride a specialize Dolce sports it's either a S or XS. Love the road bike. Thanks again


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## youngoldbloke (26 May 2019)

flobees said:


> Thank you for your reply. Hmmm ..... a lot to think of I have had my heart set on the Gain for a long time this is sad. Cos I am normally on the XS size and they don't make any smaller. I like how the Gain cos they don't look like an Ebike , at the moment I ride a specialize Dolce sports it's either a S or XS. Love the road bike. Thanks again


Why not compare the dimensions of your existing bike/s with those of the Gain XS? The geometry details are in the Orbea web pages. https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain-all-road/cat/gain-d31-19. The Dolce has a very sloping top tube, where as the Gain's is more horizontal, so you'll need to allow for that difference.
Orbea recommend the XS for height below 160 cm / 59.1 - 63.0 inches. I'm 5'5" and I thought I'd need the XS but the S is right for me. I don't find the Orbea frame any larger for it's size than any of my other bikes.


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## Big-Andy (28 May 2019)

Puncture repair....
Has anyone replaced the rear axle with a QR skewer to enable them to repair/replace inner tubes on the back or do you repair the tube with the wheel in place? Or maybe you carry a small set of wheel spanners? Just curious what the standard repair equipment is these days.


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## youngoldbloke (28 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Puncture repair....
> Has anyone replaced the rear axle with a QR skewer to enable them to repair/replace inner tubes on the back or do you repair the tube with the wheel in place? Or maybe you carry a small set of wheel spanners? Just curious what the standard repair equipment is these days.


8mm allen key is all you need. The wheel is HEAVY. The power cable must be disconnected before removing the wheel. Make sure you replace the wheel in exactly the same position as it was to enable you to reconnect the power cable correctly. See tech docs.
I also carry a lightweight 10mm (?) spanner to help orientate the spindle when it is replaced in the drop outs (you'll see what I mean when you do it ) this spanner is not strictly necessary - I've taken the wheel off, fixed the puncture in the usual way (tyre off, inspected for cause, tyre back on, tube replaced, inflated and wheel refitted) using just the allen key.


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## Storck (28 May 2019)

Andy, 8mm Allan for the rear and 6mm for the front wheel. Get a storage bottle. You can fit couple of tubes and levers in there and carry on the frame leaving pockets free.


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## youngoldbloke (28 May 2019)

Front wheel on the 2018 D30 (Tiagra) has a QR spindle. On mine I use a medium Topeak Aero Wedge saddlepack, for tools, spare tube/s puncture kit, pump etc - same as I used on my conventional bikes.


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## Big-Andy (28 May 2019)

Thanks guys, great advice and help again. I will let you all know how I get on with my bike when it arrives at the end of the week. At least now I will have a clue as to what to take with me.


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## Scaleyback (28 May 2019)

600 miles and no punctures yet.


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## robgul (28 May 2019)

I think you'll find that the rear wheel is nutted, and has a special axle with "flats" on it make sure the motor locates in the drop-outs correctly and the cable connectors align. [I've only had the wheel out of mine to change the tyres when I first bought it]

So - yes a 15mm spanner will be required in the tool kit (you could get an "aero spanner" - i.e. a short stubby one)

Rob


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## Big-Andy (28 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> 600 miles and no punctures yet.


What tyres do you have on ?


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## youngoldbloke (28 May 2019)

robgul said:


> I think you'll find that the rear wheel is nutted, and has a special axle with "flats" on it make sure the motor locates in the drop-outs correctly and the cable connectors align. [I've only had the wheel out of mine to change the tyres when I first bought it]
> 
> So - yes a 15mm spanner will be required in the tool kit (you could get an "aero spanner" - i.e. a short stubby one)
> 
> Rob


I think you'll find the 8mm allen key is sufficient. It's easier to remove the nuts and special washers completely to take the wheel off - don't lose them.


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## robgul (29 May 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I think you'll find the 8mm allen key is sufficient. It's easier to remove the nuts and special washers completely to take the wheel off - don't lose them.



Ah - you could be right - I have a Park Tool CCW5C wrench with an 8mm Allen key in the bag on the bike for the rear wheel - must have a look at the wheel when I get the bike out for a ride this morning! 
Rob


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## Scaleyback (29 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> What tyres do you have on ?



I have Schwalbe G-One Allround tyres, 700 x 35c on front & 700 x 38c on rear.
These are a gravel tyres with a light tread. They roll great on roads but give the freedom to tackle tracks & paths. Never underestimate the comfort of larger tyres on our poorly maintained roads.
Schwalbe also do a version called G-One Speed, these are slick road tyres. I have used the 38c version (40 622) on another bike and these are brilliant fast comfortable tyres.
N:B despite appearances I have no connection to Schwalbe.


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## youngoldbloke (29 May 2019)

Three punctures for me in just over 1500 miles. 28mm GP4000s. Only one true puncture - a thorn resulting in a slow deflation. The other two resulted from a badly factory-fitted rim tape. I couldn't understand why these punctures were on the rim side of the tube, until I discovered the tape edge was folded back on itself in places forming a sharp edge. Replaced with a new Schwalbe rim-tape and all is well.


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## Big-Andy (29 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I have Schwalbe G-One Allround tyres, 700 x 35c on front & 700 x 38c on rear.
> These are a gravel tyres with a light tread. They roll great on roads but give the freedom to tackle tracks & paths. Never underestimate the comfort of larger tyres on our poorly maintained roads.
> Schwalbe also do a version called G-One Speed, these are slick road tyres. I have used the 38c version (40 622) on another bike and these are brilliant fast comfortable tyres.
> N:B despite appearances I have no connection to Schwalbe.


I asked the LBS if they would take off the Kenda OEM tyres and swap them for some Conti Contact plus City for me and they said it would be fine so I went for the 622-37c versions just to add a bit of comfort on the roads and paths. I don't fancy going too this on tyres yet as I need to shed a couple of stone first and then think about it.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Finally, after many infuriating delays, the Gain D30 has arrived - in matt black (with some damn awful light grey pedals that the shop put on - despite me asking for black! They will be going straight in the bin!). If my sciatica and hip pain will allow then I will try a short 10 mile ride today and see how it goes .


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## Storck (30 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Finally, after many infuriating delays, the Gain D30 has arrived - in matt black (with some damn awful light grey pedals that the shop put on - despite me asking for black! They will be going straight in the bin!). If my sciatica and hip pain will allow then I will try a short 10 mile ride today and see how it goes .



Hope you're up to it? Weather over the next few day's is looking favourable. Let's know your initial impressions?


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Storck said:


> Hope you're up to it? Weather over the next few day's is looking favourable. Let's know your initial impressions?


Thank you, Storck. I have not long returned and with positive results. I completed 13 miles which was pleasing considering this week is the first that I have been able to walk again in the last 8 weeks. Once on the bike pain was minimal and thankfully the battery enabled me to complete the ride while pushing but not overexerting myself. The gearing took me about 20 minutes to get used as it is geared completely differently to my Trek Emonda. I have Schwalbe G-One Gravel-Road all terrain 32mm tyres with inner tubes installed at present (thanks everyone for the advice on here). They seemed to run well on the road and on the small bit of gravel I did too. No real complaints but ideally, some road specific tyres would be better for my average speed etc, but at this stage that is not important - its all about getting out of the house and rebuilding my strength and fitness. Against some of the advice on here, but recommended by Storck (?), think, I may try tubeless as it is supposed to soften the ride a little. I would recommend these to Big-Andy. At 76kg (12.6ish stone) I am not light, nor heavy, but I feel these would cope well with more muscly, heavier or slightly overweight people (absolutely no offence intended - we are built and made differently and deal with varying influences that all affect our lifestyles. I am certainly in no position to judge). I also use flat pedals as my right foot goes outwards at a silly angle after the NHS put it back wrong when I broke it many years ago. I have never been brave enough to try clipless for fear of injury, so just accept the loss in power output.

I am pleased I went for the Medium size bike rather than the Orbea recommended (for my size) large . At 184cm (6'1"ish) it seems to fit perfectly. The large would definitely have been too big. I may swap in my carbon seat post to help soften the ride a little whilst my back recovers. I imagine the carbon models run a lot softer, or maybe my back is a little over sensitive at present. I managed to go up 2 (very short but steep) hills at between 11-13.5 mph on level 2 assist (orange). I am normally grinding my way up these at between 5 and 8 mph. When back to some reasonable level of fitness I would suspect that I would probably mainly use level 1 (green). I did use level 3 (red) for a third hill, which I normally struggle up, and would never have got up today on a non ebike. I had to work hard but managed to average 11mph whilst chasing the bus up it.

Below is an image of my stats using the ebikemotion app (no HR as my garmin HR strap does not seem to want to connect - probably the wrong type). I think the rpm cadence is way out. And I am not sure the elevation gain was quite that high, but I will need to check some old rides on my Garmin to confirm this. As you can see it is a fairly flat ride with a few short steep hills - the steepest at 26.8% for 100m (apparently!!! - according to the app at least, but I am not sure this is accurate). 






I used 16% battery capacity, which I thought was rather high. I hope this will drop a little when there is less headwind and my fitness returns. I am really pleased with the quality and feel of the bike and the assistance levels (still currently set at 100% for each level) it provides. The motor comes in and drops out seamlessly and isn't really noticeable other than when pulling away from lights and junctions in levels 2 and 3, which is great for me at the moment as fast acceleration is too painful. I still had to work hard and i would guess that my hear rate was up around 150 - 160 for most of the ride, which is higher than normal for me, but 8 weeks of laying on my back has destroyed any fitness I had.

Thank you all your great advice as without this bike I would still be stuck in the house fighting boredom and watching tv. I owe you all a couple of beers - so if you are ever in Somerset... !


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## Storck (30 May 2019)

Southern, sounds like you had a good day in a long time? You're HR band won't connect, because it's not a Bluetooth one, being Garmin it will work only on Ant+ devices. I have found altitude records greatly over, along with cadence (which you also need a BL sensor not Ant+) in order to record on the phone app. Wouldn't worry too much about battery usage? Sure it's gonna get less as you improve, however 1% for 1 mile riding the conditions you did today ain't bad. What a positive? You climbed a hill that normally would have defeated you, what a start. I'm sure riding the bike today for the first time,will have not been as settled as in the future. A few rides, fine tune your position, understand the bike and gearing better, then you're going to be more relaxed and smooth, resulting in using less energy, lower HR and a more pleasant cycling experience. Enjoy.


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## youngoldbloke (30 May 2019)

- yes, battery usage sounds fine, 13miles/16% would indicate a possible range of over 80 miles. I'm doing well if I get 1km/1% (approx. 60 miles), BTW isn't the seatpost supplied with the bike a carbon SLK? What tyre pressures are you using? Being used to using 23mm and 25mm tyres I think I tend to over inflate the wider tyres I'm using on my Gain - 70psi front and 80 psi rear.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Storck said:


> Southern, sounds like you had a good day in a long time? You're HR band won't connect, because it's not a Bluetooth one, being Garmin it will work only on Ant+ devices. I have found altitude records greatly over, along with cadence (which you also need a BL sensor not Ant+) in order to record on the phone app. Wouldn't worry too much about battery usage? Sure it's gonna get less as you improve, however 1% for 1 mile riding the conditions you did today ain't bad. What a positive? You climbed a hill that normally would have defeated you, what a start. I'm sure riding the bike today for the first time,will have not been as settled as in the future. A few rides, fine tune your position, understand the bike and gearing better, then you're going to be more relaxed and smooth, resulting in using less energy, lower HR and a more pleasant cycling experience. Enjoy.



Thank you Storck. Yes I am really happy with the bike and cannot wait to get out and ride again. I will have to really hold back so as not to overdo it. Yes I do need to play around with the settings and position a little bit but on the whole I can see this as being a really positive experience.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Storck said:


> Southern, sounds like you had a good day in a long time? You're HR band won't connect, because it's not a Bluetooth one, being Garmin it will work only on Ant+ devices. I have found altitude records greatly over, along with cadence (which you also need a BL sensor not Ant+) in order to record on the phone app. Wouldn't worry too much about battery usage? Sure it's gonna get less as you improve, however 1% for 1 mile riding the conditions you did today ain't bad. What a positive? You climbed a hill that normally would have defeated you, what a start. I'm sure riding the bike today for the first time,will have not been as settled as in the future. A few rides, fine tune your position, understand the bike and gearing better, then you're going to be more relaxed and smooth, resulting in using less energy, lower HR and a more pleasant cycling experience. Enjoy.



Thanks for the heads up on the HR strap. I thought it might be something like that but hadn't looked into it. I didn't get any documentation with the bike - I guess it is all online these days. TBH I probably won't use the app that much once I am used to the bike. I will probably use my Mio 305 with my Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor. This also gives more accurate altitude and cadence results.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - yes, battery usage sounds fine, 13miles/16% would indicate a possible range of over 80 miles. I'm doing well if I get 1km/1% (approx. 60 miles), BTW isn't the seatpost supplied with the bike a carbon SLK? What tyre pressures are you using? Being used to using 23mm and 25mm tyres I think I tend to over inflate the wider tyres I'm using on my Gain - 70psi front and 80 psi rear.



Thanks youngoldbloke. When you put the battery usage like that it does not seem so bad. I hadn't actually sat down and worked it out - my write up was literally straight after I came in from the ride.

TBH I have no idea about the seat post. It probably is carbon now you mention it. I will look into it and check. The bike felt a lot firmer than my carbon one, despite the bigger tyres (I use 25mm on my carbon bike), but this is most likely due to the sensitivity and pain in my back and hip more than the bike itself. I have no idea what tyre pressure is in the tyres currently as I am unable to use my track pump to inflate them (I must get a compressor), so I didn't see the point in connecting it up just to check the pressures. As my back improves I will have a look and see. I normally inflate my 25mm to 80 psi and a quick squeeze indicates they may be a bit less than that - but this is a "tyre kickers" philosophy to testing tyresI don't know what would be a good pressure - possible 50 psi?


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## Storck (30 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the HR strap. I thought it might be something like that but hadn't looked into it. I didn't get any documentation with the bike - I guess it is all online these days. TBH I probably won't use the app that much once I am used to the bike. I will probably use my Mio 305 with
> 
> We share common tastes South? I too have a Mio 305 & 505. Yes they are much more accurate and of course in front of ya, not in your back pocket. Of course you still need the app though. BTW, mines a Soda & Lime, next time I'm in apple drinking Somerset?


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

We certainly do have similar taste - mine is a lime cordial! You are always welcome should you every be down this way. 

I fabricated a DIY homemade mobile phone holder out of a £3 rubber phone case and cable tied it to my stem. Works a treat and allows me to have the app on in front of me as well. When I use the Mio 305 (I wanted the 505 but could not find one at the price I afford at the time) I will download maps onto it from Komoot and use that for collecting all my data and just put the phone in my pocket with the app running as well.


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## Storck (30 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> We certainly do have similar taste - mine is a lime cordial! You are always welcome should you every be down this way.
> 
> 
> 
> I fabricated a DIY homemade mobile phone holder out of a £3 rubber phone case and cable tied it to my stem. Works a treat and allows me to have the app on in front of me as well. When I use the Mio 305 (I wanted the 505 but could not find one at the price I afford at the time) I will download maps onto it from Komoot and use that for collecting all my data and just put the phone in my pocket with the app running as well.



BTW, did you know you can replace the Mio battery yourself? They cost around £20. All you need is a Torck 5 screwdriver (magnatized) and some sticky tape. It's a five minute job to do. The only real benefit for me, the 505 over the 305 is? You don't have to fire up the laptop in order to upload rides. I've ran them both together, with matching results.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Storck said:


> BTW, did you know you can replace the Mio battery yourself? They cost around £20. All you need is a Torck 5 screwdriver (magnatized) and some sticky tape. It's a five minute job to do. The only real benefit for me, the 505 over the 305 is? You don't have to fire up the laptop in order to upload rides. I've ran them both together, with matching results.




That is good to know as my 305 battery is not the best. Another year and I think it will need replacing. Yes, that was the main reason I wanted the 505 rather than the 305, especially as I use my chromebook rather than my laptop as Windows infuriates me with it updates and painfully slow OS. Cannot upload Mio rides from the chromebook. I tend to wear my Garmin watch on my wrist also which records everything and uploads it directly to Strava, but this would mean having the Mio, garmin and the mobile phone with ebikemotion app all running. A bit overkill  me thinks.


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## Storck (30 May 2019)

And that's why I buy used Windows 7/8 laptops. No updates.


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## Scaleyback (30 May 2019)

Good to hear Southernguns, enjoy the bike.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Storck said:


> And that's why I buy used Windows 7/8 laptops. No updates.



Yes much better than W10, but unfortunately as of next year they will no longer be supported my Microsoft so will become a security risk. Thankfully electric bikes seem to be much quicker than W7 and 10.


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## Southernguns (30 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Good to hear Southernguns, enjoy the bike.


Thank you Scaleyback. It will certainly help to get me out there pushing the pedals more.


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## Scaleyback (31 May 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - yes, battery usage sounds fine, 13miles/16% would indicate a possible range of over 80 miles. I'm doing well if I get 1km/1% (approx. 60 miles), BTW isn't the seatpost supplied with the bike a carbon SLK? What tyre pressures are you using? Being used to using 23mm and 25mm tyres I think I tend to over inflate the wider tyres I'm using on my Gain - 70psi front and 80 psi rear.



If I remember correctly you are on 28mm tubeless tyres ? If so your tyre pressures are
about right. Interesting article here:- https://www.huntbikewheels.com/pages/recommended-tyre-pressures


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## youngoldbloke (31 May 2019)

Thanks Roy - useful information. Yes I'm using 28mm Continental GP4000SII. They actually measure 32mm on the wheel, so it does sound as if I'm in the right ballpark. I do find the bike quite bouncy on some surfaces, but it could simply be the continuing deterioration of the local road surfaces.


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## Big-Andy (31 May 2019)

It arrived today. I am very impressed with the build quality and can't believe its so light for an e-bike. The tyre questions I asked earlier were related to what I should put on instead of the Kenda's I believed were factory fitted but the LS has not put the Conti's I asked for on but left the factory ones on which are actually 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless.
https://www.evanscycles.com/hutchin...0c-road-tyre-tubeless-ready-hardskin-EV334731
Has anyone had any experience with these or has anyone had them on from new? They are the newer 11 Storm ones and seem to get good reviews but I am a bit nervous about the tubeless aspect. Can anyone put my mind at rest over these?


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## Storck (31 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> It arrived today. I am very impressed with the build quality and can't believe its so light for an e-bike. The tyre questions I asked earlier were related to what I should put on instead of the Kenda's I believed were factory fitted but the LS has not put the Conti's I asked for on but left the factory ones on which are actually 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless.
> https://www.evanscycles.com/hutchin...0c-road-tyre-tubeless-ready-hardskin-EV334731
> Has anyone had any experience with these or has anyone had them on from new? They are the newer 11 Storm ones and seem to get good reviews but I am a bit nervous about the tubeless aspect. Can anyone put my mind at rest over these?



I'm riding the 25mm version from new. Feel very much like Continental 4000gps. Started off inflating them up to 100psi. My Gain is carbon and weighs 25lbs. I felt at 100psi it was just a little to high for the bike. Dropped down to 90 rear 85 front. Bike now feels like my Trek Domane. After 500 miles, no wear on front,
rear is now nicely roughed. I was going to change them for Conti's - not going to bother now.


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## Southernguns (31 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> If I remember correctly you are on 28mm tubeless tyres ? If so your tyre pressures are
> about right. Interesting article here:- https://www.huntbikewheels.com/pages/recommended-tyre-pressures



After the advice on here I went with 32mm Schwalbe G One Gravel-Road All Terrain tyres in the end, so I guess they should be a little lower in pressure.


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## Southernguns (31 May 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> If I remember correctly you are on 28mm tubeless tyres ? If so your tyre pressures are
> about right. Interesting article here:- https://www.huntbikewheels.com/pages/recommended-tyre-pressures



An interesting read - thank you. I obviously run my Trek's tyres too low at 70psi. Maybe that's the reason I cannot cycle up hills hehe


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## Southernguns (31 May 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> It arrived today. I am very impressed with the build quality and can't believe its so light for an e-bike. The tyre questions I asked earlier were related to what I should put on instead of the Kenda's I believed were factory fitted but the LS has not put the Conti's I asked for on but left the factory ones on which are actually 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless.
> https://www.evanscycles.com/hutchin...0c-road-tyre-tubeless-ready-hardskin-EV334731
> Has anyone had any experience with these or has anyone had them on from new? They are the newer 11 Storm ones and seem to get good reviews but I am a bit nervous about the tubeless aspect. Can anyone put my mind at rest over these?



Enjoy Big-Andy. The weather forecast looks good at the weekend for a ride.


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## Big-Andy (31 May 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Enjoy Big-Andy. The weather forecast looks good at the weekend for a ride.


I can't wait to get out but I am at Twickenham tomorrow for the rugby so it will have to be Sunday now.


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## Southernguns (1 Jun 2019)

I have tickets to that but because I cannot sit for too long I am not able to make it. Enjoy the game - should be a corker.


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## Storck (1 Jun 2019)

I too will be watching rugby?Challenge Cup, St. Helens v Wakefield. Being a Hull FC. supporter, the outcome isn't all that important to me.


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## Southernguns (1 Jun 2019)

I love rugby league - but you never get to see much of it down here unfortunately.


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## Storck (1 Jun 2019)

That's a pity. It's really growing in Canada now. A few teams in the US. also. It was great to see Rovers knocked out the cup. Oh how I dislike that lot over the river in East Hull.


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## Scaleyback (1 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> It arrived today. I am very impressed with the build quality and can't believe its so light for an e-bike. The tyre questions I asked earlier were related to what I should put on instead of the Kenda's I believed were factory fitted but the LS has not put the Conti's I asked for on but left the factory ones on which are actually 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless.
> https://www.evanscycles.com/hutchin...0c-road-tyre-tubeless-ready-hardskin-EV334731
> Has anyone had any experience with these or has anyone had them on from new? They are the newer 11 Storm ones and seem to get good reviews but I am a bit nervous about the tubeless aspect. Can anyone put my mind at rest over these?



Hi Andy,
Ref the '700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless' These came as standard on my D30, I changed them for the Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622, Black, Folding which are the supplied tyre on the D31. This is the gravel bike version of the D30. (apologies if I'm teaching Grandma to suck eggs !)
Now I'm sure the 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 are good tyres but I suggest you have a go at removing/replacing one before you decide to run with them too far.
I have changed many tyres and tubes in my 'cycling life' but I have never struggled like I did getting these off. Finally I cut them off in desperation. Now I may have been having a 'bad day' (I have some arthritis in my thumb joints so my grip is not what it was) or maybe I got a particularly 'tight'pair (does this happen) but my worst nightmare would be getting a puncture and having to remove one of these at the side of the road. 
Do yourself a favour pal and try it at home first. Let me know how you get on, I am willing to come out of this looking like a 'wuss'


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## Storck (1 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Andy,
> Ref the '700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 All season tubeless' These came as standard on my D30, I changed them for the Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622, Black, Folding which are the supplied tyre on the D31. This is the gravel bike version of the D30. (apologies if I'm teaching Grandma to suck eggs !)
> Now I'm sure the 700x28 Hutchison Fusion5 are good tyres but I suggest you have a go at removing/replacing one before you decide to run with them too far.
> I have changed many tyres and tubes in my 'cycling life' but I have never struggled like I did getting these off. Finally I cut them off in desperation. Now I may have been having a 'bad day' (I have some arthritis in my thumb joints so my grip is not what it was) or maybe I got a particularly 'tight'pair (does this happen) but my worst nightmare would be getting a puncture and having to remove one of these at the side of the road.
> Do yourself a favour pal and try it at home first. Let me know how you get on, I am willing to come out of this looking like a 'wuss'



Scaley, after ride today, thought to myself? Take the front wheel off and tyre, see what Scaley is on about? Have bike booked in on Monday for service, also going to get them to put Conti 5000's on. See what you mean. I wouldn't want to be changing an inner tube on a cold day or when I was tired with those Fusion tyres. I've been impressed with the grip, comfort and after 500 miles wear. But boy, getting them off!!!! Thanks for the heads up Scaley.


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## Scaleyback (1 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Scaley, after ride today, thought to myself? Take the front wheel off and tyre, see what Scaley is on about? Have bike booked in on Monday for service, also going to get them to put Conti 5000's on. See what you mean. I wouldn't want to be changing an inner tube on a cold day or when I was tired with those Fusion tyres. I've been impressed with the grip, comfort and after 500 miles wear. But boy, getting them off!!!! Thanks for the heads up Scaley.



I was quite prepared to accept it was just me  but it seems not.


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## Big-Andy (3 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I was quite prepared to accept it was just me  but it seems not.


OK, I now see what you mean. How the hell are we supposed to get them off without cutting them? Any advice very, very gratefully received. It looks like they are glued all the way round or is it just the beads are so damn tight? I don't even know if they have tubes in them as they say tubeless ready but there seems to be a lot of confusion over what's actually inside them.


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## Big-Andy (3 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> OK, I now see what you mean. How the hell are we supposed to get them off without cutting them? Any advice very, very gratefully received. It looks like they are glued all the way round or is it just the beads are so damn tight? I don't even know if they have tubes in them as they say tubeless ready but there seems to be a lot of confusion over what's actually inside them.


The review here is of the exact tyre I have and they claim its "so easy to remove" ... https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/4899/hutchinson-fusion-5-performance-11storm-tubeless-tyres-review


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## Scaleyback (4 Jun 2019)

I cannot help you Andy, as I said once I realised how difficult they were to remove I had no intention of using them so I cut them off. I hear Welsh girls
are big and strong do you know any ?


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## magesh (4 Jun 2019)

magesh said:


> Hello All:
> 
> New to this group & thought I would share my exp' on the Orbea Gain D21. I got it on May 3rd with a 40mm tubeless setup.
> 
> <edited for content>



Update, not in a good way: I had to return the bike (D21) back, several weeks ago, due to a bad front wheel & Orbea was not responsive in getting it resolved. The front tire was leaking stans near the weld & Orbea was unwilling to ship an upgraded wheel, even if I was willing to pay more. My LBS did not hear from them, for over 2+ weeks & I gave up, after the bike was in the shop for over 2+ weeks waiting for a new wheel to show up. Paying close to $3800/- and finding a shoddy wheel is not good imho. 

At this moment, I'm not liking Orbea & not planning to buy another Orbea. 

Hope you all have better luck than me.


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## Storck (7 Jun 2019)

Ditched the Hutchison Fusion 5 tyres, like I said I was going to. Let the bike shop take the off. The mechanic confirmed the struggle he had to get removed, although he did manage too without resorting to destroying them. Replaced them with Continental 5000's, what a difference it has made to the ride comfort, killing much more road buzz on bad surfaces. BTW, Gains are flying off the shelf, everytime I'm in the shop one is up on the stand been prepared. One passed me by yesterday in the village on a car rack. With the new tyres and Dura Ace cassette I've had fitted, my Gain now comes in at exactly 25lbs.


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## youngoldbloke (7 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> The review here is of the exact tyre I have and they claim its "so easy to remove" ... https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/4899/hutchinson-fusion-5-performance-11storm-tubeless-tyres-review


- but it also states others had problems. Depends on the rim.


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## Big-Andy (9 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - but it also states others had problems. Depends on the rim.


Surprisingly my D30 came with the BlackJack Ready GR rims on it instead of the Airline Corsa ones. It was sold as a 2018 model but seems to actually be a 2019 D40. Are these the rims people are struggling to get the Hutchinson tyres off?


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## Storck (9 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Surprisingly my D30 came with the BlackJack Ready GR rims on it instead of the Airline Corsa ones. It was sold as a 2018 model but seems to actually be a 2019 D40. Are these the rims people are struggling to get the Hutchinson tyres off?



Not in my case no. I have Cosmic Carbon wheels on mine. Mechanic at bike shop said, "He had a real struggle" getting them off. Would have been help of a job, by the side of the road. Got the Fusions on eBay now. With a warning on some rims, "These are tight"


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## Big-Andy (9 Jun 2019)

Kind people, I have managed to sort this out, but had to destroy the front Fusion to do it then learned my lesson.
To summarise a very long and at times painful morning......
The reason these are a pain to remove is due to the beads "locking" into place at the outer edge of the rim. This is what's supposed to happen but due to the highlighted varying rim sizes it looks like they actually get wedged under the rims clincher edge and the inner/outer, largest (greatest diameter) , part of the rim too. This means that moving the deflated tyre back to the rims middle or shallowest part is virtually impossible by hand. Having cut one tyre off it was clear to see what was happening. I then used some large plumbers pliers with tape on the jaws to lever both of the beads away from the outer edge and once they "popped" from under the outer edge and rim back into the middle of the rim it was easy to get them on and off again. Also, to my surprise the Fusion 5 All Weathers came with KENDA tubes in them from new, they weren't Tubeless. I now have my Conti Contact Plus City tyres on with some decent Shwalbe SV17 tubes and feel way more confident I can fix things at the roadside with a spare tube and a couple of spare CO2 16OZ canisters. Thanks for helping a newbie out here, you are all a credit to the helpful nature of the forum.
I did just pop out for a quick "round the block" test to see if the tyres made a difference and I can't say I noticed too much difference but being 35c instead of 25c I would be happy to say the roads felt a bit smoother but overall I feel a lot more confident about the setup.


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## youngoldbloke (9 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Kind people, I have managed to sort this out, but had to destroy the front Fusion to do it then learned my lesson.
> To summarise a very long and at times painful morning......
> The reason these are a pain to remove is due to the beads "locking" into place at the outer edge of the rim. This is what's supposed to happen but due to the highlighted varying rim sizes it looks like they actually get wedged under the rims clincher edge and the inner/outer, largest (greatest diameter) , part of the rim too. This means that moving the deflated tyre back to the rims middle or shallowest part is virtually impossible by hand. Having cut one tyre off it was clear to see what was happening. I then used some large plumbers pliers with tape on the jaws to lever both of the beads away from the outer edge and once they "popped" from under the outer edge and rim back into the middle of the rim it was easy to get them on and off again. Also, to my surprise the Fusion 5 All Weathers came with KENDA tubes in them from new, they weren't Tubeless. I now have my Conti Contact Plus City tyres on with some decent Shwalbe SV17 tubes and feel way more confident I can fix things at the roadside with a spare tube and a couple of spare CO2 16OZ canisters. Thanks for helping a newbie out here, you are all a credit to the helpful nature of the forum.
> I did just pop out for a quick "round the block" test to see if the tyres made a difference and I can't say I noticed too much difference but being 35c instead of 25c I would be happy to say the roads felt a bit smoother but overall I feel a lot more confident about the setup.


Good that you feel more confident - but I'd be surprised if you found any difference in performance, as opposed to comfort, especially as you've fitted much heavier tyres. The Contis + Schwalbe tubes are well over over twice the weight of the original Hutchinsons, according to website info. BTW the wheels and OEM tyres on your D30 are definitely not the 2018 spec, which was Airline Corsa with 28mm Kenda Krampfish (!) (450gm) + Kenda tubes (110gm), with a QR front spindle. (The 28mm Conti GP4000lls' I fitted are 250gm each, your 37mm Conti Plus City are 850gm).
I suppose it would have been easy enough for Orbea to change the wheels to the newer spec. Are there any other differences in the spec you've noticed?


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## Big-Andy (9 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Good that you feel more confident - but I'd be surprised if you found any difference in performance, as opposed to comfort, especially as you've fitted much heavier tyres. The Contis + Schwalbe tubes are well over over twice the weight of the original Hutchinsons, according to website info. BTW the wheels and OEM tyres on your D30 are definitely not the 2018 spec, which was Airline Corsa with 28mm Kenda Krampfish (!) (450gm) + Kenda tubes (110gm), with a QR front spindle. (The 28mm Conti GP4000lls' I fitted are 250gm each, your 37mm Conti Plus City are 850gm).
> I suppose it would have been easy enough for Orbea to change the wheels to the newer spec. Are there any other differences in the spec you've noticed?


I am not too bothered about weight at the minute as I am over 19st myself at present so whilst I understand the gains of rolling weight and unsprung mass its not really a concern at this point. The Fusions did have some quite chunky Kenda tubes too so the difference would be slightly less than you have said, but as stated its not a concern at present. I think that when cycling has got me to a point where I feel I can't lose any more weight myself I will re-think my tyre choice but for now its lower on my list....I am more concerned with not having to fix punctures and deflations at present or at least keep them to a minimum. I think we can all agree that the less things there are to deter me from actually wanting to cycle the better my chances are of it becoming a serious hobby.
As for any other changes in spec... nothing I can see at present, its got the Tiagra 10 speed set with the Shimano 405 brakes and all the rest seems to match.


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## youngoldbloke (9 Jun 2019)

Fair enough - I doubt you'll be reporting any unplanned deflation solution opportunities in the future. Enjoy the ride!
(I understand that your Ready GR rims are lighter than Airline Corsa anyway.)


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## Scaleyback (9 Jun 2019)

Big-Andy said:


> Kind people, I have managed to sort this out, but had to destroy the front Fusion to do it then learned my lesson.
> Also, to my surprise the Fusion 5 All Weathers came with KENDA tubes in them from new, they weren't Tubeless.



Glad you got it sorted Andy, I think you have your priorities correct when it comes to where to lose the weight from 
I think all retailers sell 'Tubeless ready' tyres with tubes in unless you ask them to convert, and they may well charge for that ?
As for the current trend towards 'tubeless tyres' ? well they may have a little less rolling resistance and they may be less inclined to suffer
'pinch punctures' (really only a real concern for 'off-road' riding I would have thought) Having tried them I really couldn't tell any difference and
I couldn't be doing with the 'faffing around' I use 'Stan's sealant' directly in my schwalbe tubes so I'm about as puncture proof as I can get without
riding on Schwalbe Marathon Plus Smartguard Rigid Road tyres ! and at almost 1Kg each for the tyre size I ride I'm not going there.


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## Storck (9 Jun 2019)

So, you can put sealant in tubes? Didn't know that, just goes to show? Riding since 1966, and you can still find something that escaped ya.


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## Scaleyback (10 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> So, you can put sealant in tubes? Didn't know that, just goes to show? Riding since 1966, and you can still find something that escaped ya.



Yes, but only on tubes with a removable central core. (Schwalbe do) If interested read my 5th post down on this page:- https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/page-7


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## Storck (10 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Yes, but only on tubes with a removable central core. (Schwalbe do) If interested read my 5th post down on this page:- https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/page-7



Thanks, for that Scaley. Gonna look into that. I mentioned earlier fitting Conti 5000's, first time I've ever ridden 28mms tyres, inflated to 85psi. What a ride - Oooo my Chalfonts, wonderful. Wish I had done it years ago.


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## youngoldbloke (10 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Thanks, for that Scaley. Gonna look into that. I mentioned earlier fitting Conti 5000's, first time I've ever ridden 28mms tyres, inflated to 85psi. What a ride - Oooo my Chalfonts, wonderful. Wish I had done it years ago.


Have you tried latex tubes? They'll give you an even nicer ride, though you need to top the pressure up almost daily.


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## Storck (10 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Have you tried latex tubes? They'll give you an even nicer ride, though you need to top the pressure up almost daily.



Long time ago, when I was riding daily. Got fed up with having to blow them up everyday. But now it doesn't matter so much? Riding three times a week on average and of course been retired. May just do that?


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## Scaleyback (10 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Thanks, for that Scaley. Gonna look into that. I mentioned earlier fitting Conti 5000's, first time I've ever ridden 28mms tyres, inflated to 85psi. What a ride - Oooo my Chalfonts, wonderful. Wish I had done it years ago.



I ride 35mm front and 38mm rear at 60 psi my crown jewels appreciate the comfort. 

Latex tubes, Hmm ? https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/latex-inner-tubes-worth-hassle-282066


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## jowwy (10 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I ride 35mm front and 38mm rear at 60 psi my crown jewels appreciate the comfort.
> 
> Latex tubes, Hmm ? https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/latex-inner-tubes-worth-hassle-282066


You not riding tubeless scales???


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## Scaleyback (10 Jun 2019)

jowwy said:


> You not riding tubeless scales???



Please explain jowwy.


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## jowwy (10 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Please explain jowwy.


Was asking are you not riding tubeless on the current tyres as you went “hmmmm” about latex tubes


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## Scaleyback (11 Jun 2019)

jowwy said:


> Was asking are you not riding tubeless on the current tyres as you went “hmmmm” about latex tubes



No, I’m doing it the old fashioned way, with tubes.


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## Scaleyback (12 Jun 2019)

This is a tenuous link but I was riding my Orbea Gain. 
I video some of my rides. Here is an edited clip from a ride a couple of days ago showing one of the joys ? of riding in rural North Yorkshire.
There is wind noise that I cannot help, there is a little 'huffing 'n' puffing at the start as I crest a hill and there is also a little 'industrial language'
that I apologise for (silly old man talking to himself) Turn the sound off if Granny or the children are close by.https://photos.smugmug.com/Yi-4K-Action-Camera/i-9Q64vMs/0/65de6641/1920/The Shepherd_2-1920.mp4

Roy


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## youngoldbloke (12 Jun 2019)

Speedy sheep you have up there, Roy - loved it.


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## Storck (12 Jun 2019)

Wonderful, Never a sheep dog when you need one!


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## Scaleyback (12 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Speedy sheep you have up there, Roy - loved it.



Thanks Peter,

I feel the need to explain. I didn't want to scare them sh**less, I would normally cruise along behind them leaving them to disperse at their leisure.
However I was aware that at the end of this 'green lane' there was a 'T' junction joining a road that was likely to have traffic.
I was afraid the stupid sheep would charge straight out into possible traffic so decided to try and divert them. I was very mindful of getting 'put into
the ditch' by kamikaze sheep.


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## Southernguns (13 Jun 2019)

Great video. Proper funny. That little lamb must have jumped about 5 foot off the ground.


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## Storck (13 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Great video. Proper funny. That little lamb must have jumped about 5 foot off the ground.



And that's why we know them as Wooly Jumpers.


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## MarkF (13 Jun 2019)

This is the sort of e-bike that I could go for, sell the Van Van and commute on it and ride normally. But, it's an expensive purchase and one that I'd have to justify to MrsF........I'd really need a decent test ride in a hilly area.


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## Southernguns (13 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> And that's why we know them as Wooly Jumpers.


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## Southernguns (13 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> This is the sort of e-bike that I could go for, sell the Van Van and commute on it and ride normally. But, it's an expensive purchase and one that I'd have to justify to MrsF........I'd really need a decent test ride in a hilly area.


I was reluctant at first, because of the investment, but having only done 3 rides, totalling 60 miles, I can already say that I don't regret it. I am really enjoying riding the Gain, more so than a non powered road bike. Although, I am getting knee pain in my right knee so will probably need to go for a bike fit.


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## MarkF (14 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I was reluctant at first, because of the investment, but having only done 3 rides, totalling 60 miles, I can already say that I don't regret it. I am really enjoying riding the Gain, more so than a non powered road bike. Although, I am getting knee pain in my right knee so will probably need to go for a bike fit.



Still, I wouldn't buy a £2k motorcycle without test riding it.............I have found the thread very interesting but I'd need to test ride one. I don't need an e-bike to cycle to work, but the Gain appears to enable me to arrive non-sweaty which is what I am after. I have long and challenging hill leading to my work.

Anybody near Leeds/Bradford with an Orbea Gain?


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## MarkF (14 Jun 2019)

Just sent an email to Chevin Cycles, £50 (refundable off a purchase) seems a good deal to me for full days test ride. Here's hoping they have a Gain demo in stock.


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## youngoldbloke (14 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> Just sent an email to Chevin Cycles, £50 (refundable off a purchase) seems a good deal to me for full days test ride. Here's hoping they have a Gain demo in stock.


I see they have an ex demo one on sale - size L


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## Scaleyback (14 Jun 2019)

Mark, I am just south of Richmond, North Yorks, just off A1M. That makes me about 50 miles from Leeds. If you fancy a day out and don’t mind the travelling I am happy to give you time on my D30 Orbea Gain. I would accompany you on my other (unassisted) road bike. This is a small size, I am about 5’9” with a 31” inside leg. Still plenty of adjustment in the bike.


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## Storck (14 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> Still, I wouldn't buy a £2k motorcycle without test riding it.............I have found the thread very interesting but I'd need to test ride one. I don't need an e-bike to cycle to work, but the Gain appears to enable me to arrive non-sweaty which is what I am after. I have long and challenging hill leading to my work.
> 
> Anybody near Leeds/Bradford with an Orbea Gain?



Not sure you would arrive totally dry? You still have to put some effort in, even with max assist working for you.


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## MarkF (14 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Mark, I am just south of Richmond, North Yorks, just off A1M. That makes me about 50 miles from Leeds. If you fancy a day out and don’t mind the travelling I am happy to give you time on my D30 Orbea Gain. I would accompany you on my other (unassisted) road bike. This is a small size, I am about 5’9” with a 31” inside leg. Still plenty of adjustment in the bike.


 That's very kind of you. I will be a M/L at 6'1" but would at least get experience of the Gain. I'll wait for Chevin's reply and get back to you.


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## MarkF (14 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Not sure you would arrive totally dry? You still have to put some effort in, even with max assist working for you.


 
That's what l need to find out, and a ride up Otley Chevin will tell me everything.


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## Southernguns (15 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> Still, I wouldn't buy a £2k motorcycle without test riding it.............I have found the thread very interesting but I'd need to test ride one. I don't need an e-bike to cycle to work, but the Gain appears to enable me to arrive non-sweaty which is what I am after. I have long and challenging hill leading to my work.



My mistake, From your previous post I did not realise that it was the test ride that was the issue, I thought it was that actual cost of the bike. I misunderstood your post - sorry. I would also not buy any motorbike, regardless of cost, without a test ride - and I have owned a lot of motorbikes over the years. Anyway, to reiterate what Storck said - it is unlikely you would arrive at work non sweaty on the Gain as it does not have the power of the 500W and 700W electric bikes. Due to the lower level of power (I think its 250W) you still have to put in the effort. It generally encourages you to put in a similar amount of effort as on a non powered bike, but you just go faster. I guess if you had it in level 3 assist mode and could restrain the urge to go "fast" up Otley Chevin then maybe you would be less sweaty - but you would have to have more will power than I have (probably not hard - I have been trying to give up chocolate for years but the longest I have managed is 3 days!).


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## Storck (15 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> My mistake, From your previous post I did not realise that it was the test ride that was the issue, I thought it was that actual cost of the bike. I misunderstood your post - sorry. I would also not buy any motorbike, regardless of cost, without a test ride - and I have owned a lot of motorbikes over the years. Anyway, to reiterate what Storck said - it is unlikely you would arrive at work non sweaty on the Gain as it does not have the power of the 500W and 700W electric bikes. Due to the lower level of power (I think its 250W) you still have to put in the effort. It generally encourages you to put in a similar amount of effort as on a non powered bike, but you just go faster. I guess if you had it in level 3 assist mode and could restrain the urge to go "fast" up Otley Chevin then maybe you would be less sweaty - but you would have to have more will power than I have (probably not hard - I have been trying to give up chocolate for years but the longest I have managed is 3 days!).



Does Caramac count as chocolate? Always liked it since school days. And that was a loooong time ago.


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## youngoldbloke (15 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Does Caramac count as chocolate? Always liked it since school days. And that was a loooong time ago.


'manufactured using sweetened condensed milk, butter, various flavourings, and sugar' (Wikipedia). No chocolate there!


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## Storck (15 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> 'manufactured using sweetened condensed milk, butter, various flavourings, and sugar' (Wikipedia). No chocolate there!



Oh, how I recall Carnation Condenced Milk. Ultra sticky and sweet. Camp coffee with Carnation milk! You had to be Scottish to like it.


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## MarkF (16 Jun 2019)

No reply from Chevin Cycles, sent an email to Cycle Republic Leeds too, no reply. Bonkers.


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## Storck (16 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> No reply from Chevin Cycles, sent an email to Cycle Republic Leeds too, no reply. Bonkers.



Never understand that? Don't folk want business?


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## Southernguns (17 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Does Caramac count as chocolate? Always liked it since school days. And that was a loooong time ago.


Wow, Caramac - that was a long time ago! Can you still get it?


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## Storck (17 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Wow, Caramac - that was a long time ago! Can you still get it?



Yep, sister picks up my meds every month, she always augments the bag with a pack of Caramacs. Still make myself queasy eating them


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## robgul (19 Jun 2019)

Storck said:


> Oh, how I recall Carnation Condenced Milk. Ultra sticky and sweet. Camp coffee with Carnation milk! You had to be Scottish to like it.



Ah - Nestle condensed milk was better - or there was a cheaper and slightly thinner version called Fussells - back in the late '50s early 60s

As an aside I carry a tube of condensed milk on longer rides (visualise a toothpaste tube with condensed milk in it) - for an instant sugar boost if tired - quick suck on the tube, refit the cap ready for next time.

Rob


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## NickWi (19 Jun 2019)

As a kid I used to be given condensed milk sandwiches! Thick bread, loads of butter and condensed milk dripping out of the side. Then yummy, now my Doctor would be having checking my blood sugar levels weekly.

On a slightly different note, my grandfather, (who was of the White British in India generation) always used to make his tea in a saucepan with condensed milk. Apparently, it was an Indian or more likely British Raj thing to do. And no, I don't recall trying it.


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## Storck (19 Jun 2019)

NickWi said:


> As a kid I used to be given condensed milk sandwiches! Thick bread, loads of butter and condensed milk dripping out of the side. Then yummy, now my Doctor would be having checking my blood sugar levels weekly.
> 
> On a slightly different note, my grandfather, (who was of the White British in India generation) always used to make his tea in a saucepan with condensed milk. Apparently, it was an Indian or more likely British Raj thing to do. And no, I don't recall trying it.



British Raj, milk just would not keep. My grandfather too was for many years stationed out there. He couldn't stand to even look at a tin of condensed milk, once back in Blighty.


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## Solom01 (19 Jun 2019)

Excuse me in advance for asking a really dumb question, but since I had to order my Gain by mail order (there are no local dealers here) does anyone know how involved the assembly is? Will I need any non-standard tools, or is it basically just installing the front wheel, the seat post and saddle, pedals and the handlebars? Most other companies show assembly on their site or youtube, but I couldn't find anything on the Gain. This is just a lower end model, the Gain F30 if that makes any difference. Thanks, I appreciate it.


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## Storck (19 Jun 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Excuse me in advance for asking a really dumb question, but since I had to order my Gain by mail order (there are no local dealers here) does anyone know how involved the assembly is? Will I need any non-standard tools, or is it basically just installing the front wheel, the seat post and saddle, pedals and the handlebars? Most other companies show assembly on their site or youtube, but I couldn't find anything on the Gain. This is just a lower end model, the Gain F30 if that makes any difference. Thanks, I appreciate it.



I've been in LBS, when they turn up. No not much to it at all. One concern though? The dealer has to deristrict the 50 mile limit on the bike and also register it with Orbea using the "Dealer App" How will this be taken care of?


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## Solom01 (20 Jun 2019)

Thanks, that's a relief. If the bike shop has it in restricted mode I'll have to call them and see how to turn it off, although hopefully they did that before shipping it As for registering it you can do it on the Orbea site using the bike's serial number on the downtube. At least that's what I think will happen, if there are any problems I'll let you guys know. I would have purchased it from a local store, I didn't save money buying it on the internet, but the closest dealer selling the Gain was hundreds of miles away, so my choices were limited.


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## NickWi (20 Jun 2019)

My Gain came mail order and was it really was as a straightforward job of fitting and adjusting what you said. No special tools required. I also went over the bike to check the tightness of every single nut, bolt & screw I could find, plus checks on the bearings, headset, brakes etcs and look for any knocks, faults or damage. This wasn't because I didn't trust the online dealer to have done the PDI, it's just that it'd be my ass bouncing down the road should something critical have failed.

As for desrestricting the 50mile range, it must have been done by the dealer as I didn't even know such a thing existed until well after I'd bought it. Registering, if I remember rightly you could do it by either using the barcode sticker on the bike and scanner app on your phone, or manually entering the frame number online.

All in, my bike arrived in good condition, assembled easily and as I can't really remember the registering process, it must have been hassle free.


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## shingwell (20 Jun 2019)

It stops working after 50 miles unless you do as they tell you?  That sort of attitude to customers would be enough to stop me buying one. Giving your mame and address for product guarantee purposes is one thing, but that is my choice, building in something that stops the product working after I have bought it unless I bought it from particular dealers I would have thought is borderline illegal these days for market manipulation type reasons. Thanks for the warning!


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## youngoldbloke (20 Jun 2019)

shingwell said:


> It stops working after 50 miles unless you do as they tell you?  That sort of attitude to customers would be enough to stop me buying one. Giving your mame and address for product guarantee purposes is one thing, but that is my choice, building in something that stops the product working after I have bought it unless I bought it from particular dealers I would have thought is borderline illegal these days for market manipulation type reasons. Thanks for the warning!


I assume this is a security measure to prevent theft.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jun 2019)

shingwell said:


> It stops working after 50 miles unless you do as they tell you?  That sort of attitude to customers would be enough to stop me buying one. Giving your mame and address for product guarantee purposes is one thing, but that is my choice, building in something that stops the product working after I have bought it unless I bought it from particular dealers I would have thought is borderline illegal these days for market manipulation type reasons. Thanks for the warning!



“borderline illegal” and “market manipulation” That seems a bit of a ‘knee jerk’ reaction. Guilty until proven innocent is a pretty sad approach. I purchased mine from a dealer and was well aware the dealer would “derestrict” the bike. I understand Orbea are ensuring the bike gets the correct pre-delivery checks.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jun 2019)

As a follow up to the above, if you buy photographic equipment from Nikon, Sony etc etc in the UK from a non-approved dealer (know as ‘grey market’) the equipment will not be covered by the relevant manufacturers UK warranty. Is this borderline illegal and market manipulation ?


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## shingwell (20 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> As a follow up to the above, if you buy photographic equipment from Nikon, Sony etc etc in the UK from a non-approved dealer (know as ‘grey market’) the equipment will not be covered by the relevant manufacturers UK warranty. Is this borderline illegal and market manipulation ?


No, that is exactly my point. Your Sony camera etc that you have purchased will not deliberately stop functioning after 50 pictures. Your choice of where to buy. So-called "grey imports" are perfectly legal, it is part of a free market, if it were otherwise it would be akin to price-fixing, which is not legal.


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## Solom01 (20 Jun 2019)

Hi guys, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument. I'm assuming laws are different in the US, Canada and the EU so since there are members here from multiple countries maybe we're all right/wrong depending on where we're located? Anyhow, I talked to the company I mail ordered it from and they said that they unlock them prior to shipment.....so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and won't worry about it unless it comes in in restricted mode. Thank you all, I never had a clue about the dealer app/restricted mode and appreciate you letting me know.


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## shingwell (20 Jun 2019)

With that I am going to bow out of this conversation. I never intended to start a flame war, and I appologise if I got some peoples' backs up. I was just a bit shocked that such potentially dodgy practices are going on in the e-bike world (I'm not saying anything dodgy _is_ going on, just that it has the potential, through lack of transparancy. I have not bought an Orbea Gain; maybe it is all transparent and you get an itemised bill showing how much of your purchase price went to the dealer to de-restrict it.)

So, as you were...


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## Scaleyback (20 Jun 2019)

‘shingwell’ You started your 1st post on this subject thus:- “ it stops working after 50 miles unless you do as they tell you “
This is a provocative statement, where are you getting this information from ?
All Gain’s can only be purchased originally via an Orbea dealer. If you buy one on ebay or wherever it has still come via an Orbea dealer. ‘NickWi’ who purchased his via mail order said “it must have been done by the dealer”
You seem to me to be ‘bad mouthing’ Orbea based on an ill formed opinion.


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## Storck (20 Jun 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi guys, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument. I'm assuming laws are different in the US, Canada and the EU so since there are members here from multiple countries maybe we're all right/wrong depending on where we're located? Anyhow, I talked to the company I mail ordered it from and they said that they unlock them prior to shipment.....so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and won't worry about it unless it comes in in restricted mode. Thank you all, I never had a clue about the dealer app/restricted mode and appreciate you letting me know.



I'm sure the dealer will do his stuff. However you would soon know come 50 miles on the clock? When are you expecting it to arrive? Don't forget to let us all know your first impressions?


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## MarkF (20 Jun 2019)

Still no reply from Chevin or Cycle Republic, from a potential buyer wanting to test ride. 

Will look for another, within distance, dealer, then give probably give up.


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## Southernguns (21 Jun 2019)

MarkF said:


> Still no reply from Chevin or Cycle Republic, from a potential buyer wanting to test ride.
> 
> Will look for another, within distance, dealer, then give probably give up.


Or buy one mail order - then we can discuss if the 50 mile restriction has been removed and someone can post how aghast they are that there is a 50 mile restriction (which I assume is put on in order to prevent theft - and is quick, easy and, I am informed (rightly or wrongly), free for dealers to remove before you actually receive the bike). 



shingwell said:


> No, that is exactly my point. Your Sony camera etc that you have purchased will not deliberately stop functioning after 50 pictures. Your choice of where to buy. So-called "grey imports" are perfectly legal, it is part of a free market, if it were otherwise it would be akin to price-fixing, which is not legal.


Personally, I don't really care about this argument and actually find it quite funny, but I am feeling left out so thought I would make a comment just so that I can join the fight. In the interest of GDPR and privacy etc. I cannot see any issue with restricting the bike as I do not think Orbea takes any of your details when you derestrict the bike. Orbea just take all your details when you sign in on their app that connects to the bike instead.

And as for grey's - I cannot comment much about cameras as every photo I have taken has heads chopped off or fingers across faces, but with motorbikes and cars - yes they are legal, but (back in the day) try getting them serviced: OMG! Most mechanics wouldn't touch them and them that did sky rocketed their prices (is this not akin to price fixing?)! This meant unless you could do your own servicing, had loads of cash (in which case why buy a cheaper grey?) or just didn't give a damn, that you were buying a vehicle that you could only use for a few thousand miles! (side note: I have owned loads of greys - I just didn't give a damn). Some motorbikes are also restricted (legally) meaning you are buying a vehicle which will not allow you to go over a certain speed - so is this really a 'free market'? Back in the day the first thing 16 and 17 year olds would do was to derestrict them and remove the baffles from the exhaust to eek out every last mph from their 50cc and 125cc powerhouses! - Now this is illegal!

Interestingly, it is also perfectly legal for Apple to sell phones that, after taking 20 photos (bit of an exaggeration), stop working as anything other than a phone (and who uses their phones as phones these days?) because the memory is full. Thus, forcing you to remove your photos before you can take any more, or buy another iphone with bigger memory at an even more exuberant price (more backdoor price fixing?)! They also lock your phone completely if you restore it and have forgotten your password, rendering it a very expensive door stop (they actually fit perfectly under most doors and work really well!) and forcing you to buy another iphone - more backdoor price fixing?

No, I don't have an issue with Orbea putting a 50 mile restriction on their pre-sold electric bikes.

So in my little world free markets don't truly exist and price fixing is common place, if not a little underhand. Am I bothered? No, because there are still Caramac's and condensed milk!


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## Scaleyback (21 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> etc
> Personally, I don't really care about this argument and actually find it quite funny,
> .



I didn't really see it as an " argument " but a difference of opinion. A forum is medium for a exchange of views afterall. 

p.s
" free markets don't truly exist and price fixing is common place, if not a little underhand. "

Spot on there.


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## Venod (21 Jun 2019)

I don't know or care why Orbea restrict their bikes to 50 mile, but I am curios,if as stated its to stop theft, how does this work ? if you take one for a test ride presumably you have to leave a credit card or some such security before you can ride it, if somebody grabs one and makes off 50 mile is a fair distance to disappear in.
If Orbea have a simple method of removing the limit, you can bet somebody will be able to crack it.


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## Milkfloat (21 Jun 2019)

Do you owners of Gains realise that Orbea effectively own your bike maintenance? The parts that you need to replace in the future for the 'e' part of the bike also come locked, meaning that you have to go back to the dealer to have them fitted and activated. You are entirely at the mercy of Orbea and their LBS. When Apple tried this, they were roundly criticized and I think subject to anti trust lawsuits. I realise that you are at the mercy of the manufacturer to keep supplying parts for years, but to me this goes beyond replying on a company to keep producing parts and goes into creating a monopoly.

Look at page 8 in the dealer manual. https://www.orbea.com/downloads/Dealer_APP_Manual_Gain_EN.pdf


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## robgul (21 Jun 2019)

Sort of related to the "limitation" comments - all the ebikes (that's containers of our own brand machines) we have coming in are "not activated" as far as the battery is concerned - this is to do with the transit of batteries and potential risks etc. - carriers need the batteries to be "asleep" In our bikes, unlocking (with a key) and switching the machine into power mode activates the battery and thus the bike.

... and the point about mail-order Orbeas - I bought mine from Tredz ('cos even though I manage an LBS I couldn't get any trade or discount terms) and it came fully-built in a Tredz branded box with the front wheel fitted and just the bars turned and the "free" pedals in a small separate box, with a 15mm cone spanner to use as a pedal spanner. Just turn the bars and tighten the stem - that's it. [However being used to fixing Halfords/a.k.a. Tredz bikes post-PDI I did my own check right round the bike ... bar-tape wasn't fitted very well and one of the brake levers had a loose-ish clamp] Orbeas being delivered to dealers come in the normal style of box with the front wheel off, stowed beside the frame and the bars & saddle off (at least that's how I've seen them at a dealer friend's shop) - there are of course no pedals.

Rob


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## Milkfloat (21 Jun 2019)

@robgul It is nothing to do with shipping batteries and all to do with warranty. The battery is not asleep, you get 50km of transit mode so the shop can set the bike up and test it. The warranty period kicks in when the bike is activated.


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## Solom01 (21 Jun 2019)

I'll definitely let you all know how it goes, maybe it will help someone else in the future. The bike shop I ordered it from is in Northern California and I'm in the Southwest coast of Florida so it isn't supposed to get here until June 26th. Now if I could just find some Caramac to try. I've never been to the UK, but I was in Australia this October and although I had a fantastic time (some of the nicest folks I have ever met) no one ever mentioned Caramac - just some truly delicious beer.


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## Southernguns (21 Jun 2019)

Afnug said:


> I don't know or care why Orbea restrict their bikes to 50 mile, but I am curios,if as stated its to stop theft, how does this work ? if you take one for a test ride presumably you have to leave a credit card or some such security before you can ride it, if somebody grabs one and makes off 50 mile is a fair distance to disappear in.
> If Orbea have a simple method of removing the limit, you can bet somebody will be able to crack it.


I was writing in the early hours of the morning before the sun was showing its face and my tiny brain finds it hard to function fully that early. I didn't even think of it like this . I was thinking more along the lines of someone selling a stolen bike down the pub. If a perspective buyer knew that there was a chance that the bike would not work as expected at 50 miles then they would not buy it. The other explanations posted by Robgul and Milkfloat are much more plausible answers to the 50 mile restriction than my anti theft guess though.


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## Southernguns (21 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I didn't really see it as an " argument " but a difference of opinion. A forum is medium for a exchange of views afterall.
> I know, Scaleyback mate  - it was meant as a bit of tongue in cheek really. That's the trouble with written text- you lose the intonation that's found in verbal speech, and try as I might to get the intonation across with really bad humour and smileys, unfortunately they just don't cut it.


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## Storck (22 Jun 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I'll definitely let you all know how it goes, maybe it will help someone else in the future. The bike shop I ordered it from is in Northern California and I'm in the Southwest coast of Florida so it isn't supposed to get here until June 26th. Now if I could just find some Caramac to try. I've never been to the UK, but I was in Australia this October and although I had a fantastic time (some of the nicest folks I have ever met) no one ever mentioned Caramac - just some truly delicious beer.



Now you mention it, although stationed in Auss for long periods, I don't ever recall seeing Caramac? I think it was made by Terrys of York. One things for sure Sol, it would go soft in your climate.


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## Solom01 (22 Jun 2019)

Well, in the summer here it's normally about 33.5 and about 85-90% humidity...kind of like living in a sauna thanks to the Gulf so yup, no anything including pets and kids unless they're in air conditioning - and cycling is interesting - no hills at all, but trying to prevent a heat stroke is part of the fun. On the other hand, during the winter it's sunny, about 22 during the day and rarely goes below 50 at night so that part is great. Next time I'm in New York or DC though I am definitely finding some Caramac - hopefully it won't be like Vegemite - I tried that in Australia and I've got to say that it must be an acquired taste.


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## Storck (22 Jun 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Well, in the summer here it's normally about 33.5 and about 85-90% humidity...kind of like living in a sauna thanks to the Gulf so yup, no anything including pets and kids unless they're in air conditioning - and cycling is interesting - no hills at all, but trying to prevent a heat stroke is part of the fun. On the other hand, during the winter it's sunny, about 22 during the day and rarely goes below 50 at night so that part is great. Next time I'm in New York or DC though I am definitely finding some Caramac - hopefully it won't be like Vegemite - I tried that in Australia and I've got to say that it must be an acquired taste.



No nothing like Vegamite, as you say - An aquired taste. The opposite in fact, sweet. I know all about your weather? Apart from been based in DC. at an unsual shaped building, I also had a condo in Fort Lauderdale, near by the lifting bridge over the canal that fed the cruise terminal. In fact the bridge was the only hill for miles and miles. Think I may have to help you out with procuring some Caramac?


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## Scaleyback (26 Jun 2019)

Guys, when I log on to www.ebikemotion.com and look at the tag 'My eBikes' the Activation Date on mine is 12-03-2018







I would have expected this date to reflect when the bike was put on the road ? in my case in Feb 2019.
Can someone check theirs please ?


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## youngoldbloke (26 Jun 2019)

Hi, mine is 07.19.18. I collected the bike on 14th August last year and I think it was delivered to the supplier the week before, so the activation date in my case appears to be about a month before delivery. Your date must be 3rd December 2018, so given delivery time and time in stock at the dealers it's not that far out.


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## Milkfloat (26 Jun 2019)

I would check with your dealer, as Orbea state this is the date the warranty starts. You may be losing a month of warranty.


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## the snail (26 Jun 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Guys, when I log on to www.ebikemotion.com and look at the tag 'My eBikes' the Activation Date on mine is 12-03-2018
> 
> View attachment 472674
> 
> ...


At a guess, the dealer activated it on dec 3


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## youngoldbloke (26 Jun 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I would check with your dealer, as Orbea state this is the date the warranty starts. You may be losing a month of warranty.


I understand the warranty runs from the date the purchaser registers the bike with Orbea (up to 30 days after purchase). Mine does.


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## Milkfloat (26 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I understand the warranty runs from the date the purchaser registers the bike with Orbea (up to 30 days after purchase). Mine does.



Page 26 in the manual I posted earlier says "Activation should only be performed on eBikes upon their delivery to the customer, this is due to the guarantee taking effect upon activation, as well as security reasons."

I would assume that your receipt would be able to override this, but it may be more hassle.


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## youngoldbloke (26 Jun 2019)

See https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/warranty/
"This warranty will only be valid for the original buyer of the product, who must have completed the online registration form for the bicycle or frame within 30 days of having purchased the product."


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## Scaleyback (26 Jun 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Hi, mine is 07.19.18. I collected the bike on 14th August last year and I think it was delivered to the supplier the week before, so the activation date in my case appears to be about a month before delivery. Your date must be 3rd December 2018, so given delivery time and time in stock at the dealers it's not that far out.



Ok, I see what I did here, doh  being stuck in a UK timewarp I read 12-03-2018 as ddmmyyyy as opposed to mmddyyyy so instead of a possible discrepancy of approx 11 months (purchase date 27th march 2019) I have a difference from 03rd dec 2018 to 27th mar 2019 which is still going on for 4 months. With a purchase
receipt I doubt I would lose any of my warranty.

Thanks for your replies.

p.s Just checked my registration with Orbea which is dated 2019-02-27 (yyyymmdd) different
nomenclature to ebikemotion ? I assume the Orbea warranty covers e bike and electronics so all looks good.


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## areyouactuallymoving (29 Jun 2019)

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, haven't read through all 22 pages...

I am the proud new owner of an Orbea Gain F10. Loving it so far, I have seen mentioned that you can change the amount of assist for each of the 3 levels how do you it?

Cheers


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## Southernguns (29 Jun 2019)

You have to do it through the ebikemotion app whilst it is connected to the bike via blue tooth. Once connected I think it is in the settings section. The option for it only shows up when synced with the bike though.


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## areyouactuallymoving (29 Jun 2019)

Southernguns said:


> You have to do it through the ebikemotion app whilst it is connected to the bike via blue tooth. Once connected I think it is in the settings section. The option for it only shows up when synced with the bike though.



Great, will try that out tomorrow, thanks!


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## Southernguns (29 Jun 2019)

Enjoy your F10. I have had my D30 for a few weeks now (I also love it) and am just at the point where I want to start playing with the power levels. I rarely use level 3 so I think I will currently leave it at 100% and use it as a desperate 'get out' if I become too tired to cycle, or the hills are too steep. I think I will also leave level 1 at 100% as that seems to suit me at the moment, but I may change that as my fitness returns. Level 2 is where I will reduce it I think. I find it too powerful, meaning that I hardly have to work, except on the steeper hills. I think I might try setting it at 75% then experimenting from there.

It might be worth reading back over the past 5 or 6 pages as a few of the guys on here are really knowledgeable and very helpful. They have played around with the settings quite a bit and I am fairly sure there are some pretty recent posts on their preferred settings. They will be much more helpful than I can be!


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## NickWi (30 Jun 2019)

I run my Gain at 75% on Assistance Level 1 as I found 100% I found a little bit too much assistance for me and my local & undulating terrain. A2 at 100% is a fraction too high for when I’m riding in company and hills, but suits me when I’m riding on my own so it’s left as is. As for A3 that’s at 100% and I only ever use it on the steeper hills. I look at it as my reward for lugging all that extra weight around all day and justification for buying an ebike in the first place!


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## Scaleyback (6 Jul 2019)

I've gone in the opposite direction ? I'm on Level1 (lowest) 90% Level2 80% and Level 3 70%.


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## Southernguns (7 Jul 2019)

I had a pro bike fit on the Orbea Gain on Wednesday and have just done a 25 mile gravel ride over some pretty demanding off road and hilly terrain. I managed the whole ride in level1 which is very unusual for me. It is probably down to the bike fit, rather than me just feeling good today. If this is the case then I will have to reassess the power to each level and follow Scaley by lowering level1 and level2. I think I will do a couple more rides with the new setup first just to confirm it is the bike fit that has made the difference then start adjusting.

Also for anyone that is interested I have changed my pedals to Pedaling Catalyst pedals. The designer of the pedals is a bit preachy so I was initially put off, but then read loads of reviews on them and having tried them I can say that they do seems to do what they claim to do. I am able to get a lot more power through the pedals when climbing hills by using my quads more. This combined with the electric assist and suddenly I am flying up hill. They are comfy too.


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## youngoldbloke (7 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I had a pro bike fit on the Orbea Gain on Wednesday and have just done a 25 mile gravel ride over some pretty demanding off road and hilly terrain. I managed the whole ride in level1 which is very unusual for me. It is probably down to the bike fit, rather than me just feeling good today. If this is the case then I will have to reassess the power to each level and follow Scaley by lowering level1 and level2. I think I will do a couple more rides with the new setup first just to confirm it is the bike fit that has made the difference then start adjusting.
> 
> Also for anyone that is interested I have changed my pedals to Pedaling Catalyst pedals. The designer of the pedals is a bit preachy so I was initially put off, but then read loads of reviews on them and having tried them I can say that they do seems to do what they claim to do. I am able to get a lot more power through the pedals when climbing hills by using my quads more. This combined with the electric assist and suddenly I am flying up hill. They are comfy too.


Which pedals did you use before? Do you ride out of the saddle much? I use the same as I always have on non assisted bikes - SPDs or Look Keos in the summer.


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## Southernguns (7 Jul 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Which pedals did you use before? Do you ride out of the saddle much? I use the same as I always have on non assisted bikes - SPDs or Look Keos in the summer.


I used flat pedals before- usually fixation or DMRbikes, but I tend to ride with the ball of the foot on the axle of the pedal. With Pedaling Catalyst the aim is to ride with the arch of the foot on the axle of the pedal (they are huge and look a little funny on a road bike). It took some getting used to, about 5 rides, but I think I prefer them now. I have tried and used spd 'clipless' pedals before and get on well with them. I would happily use them now (or probably speedway pedals that allow more float) but I find flats much more comfortable and to be honest the difference in my performance between flats and 'clipless' is not enough to worry about, and I reckon is even less with the Catalyst pedals. In fact I reckon the only difference would be in sprints, which I have no inclination to do. I also have electric assistance to make up for any minimal difference that there is. Interestingly, when racing duathlons a few years ago I found that I would lose more time in the transition changing from running shoes to cycling shoes, and back again after the cycle, than I would in time gained during the cycle from using clipless, so I cycled on flat pedals in my running shoes. This is when I reverted to flats and I think I much prefer them.


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## Southernguns (7 Jul 2019)

Oh-sorry, I ride out of the saddle less than I used to before my injuries. I tend to spin these days, but I do ride out of the saddle occasionally and I find it really easy on the Catalyst pedals, easier than on my other flats. I think it is still slightly easier when using 'clipless' though. Please bear in mind that I am far from a serious cyclist, more of a runner that 'dabbled' in cycling so don't take my experiences as the norm for everyone. I am cycling more now due to my injuries and I could become much more into cycling thanks to my enjoyment of the Orbea Gain.


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## Scaleyback (9 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Also for anyone that is interested I have changed my pedals to Pedaling Catalyst pedals.



So these are flat pedals, yes ? I guess if you are doing lots of ‘off road’ biking ( gravel trails) the ability to put a foot down asap is probably a good thing. Like Peter (above) I also use SPD pedals ( recessed cleat) I have the same pedals on my Gain and my normal road bike.

P.S our last two posts crossed.


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## Southernguns (9 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> So these are flat pedals, yes ? I guess if you are doing lots of ‘off road’ biking ( gravel trails) the ability to put a foot down asap is probably a good thing. Like Peter (above) I also use SPD pedals ( recessed cleat) I have the same pedals on my Gain and my normal road bike.


Yes they are flat pedals of immense proportions. They do seem to work though, and yes being able to put my foot down quickly on a couple of the gravel rides has saved me a few times now. I'm sure I would have had a few embarrassing falls if I was clipped in!!


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## Southernguns (11 Jul 2019)

I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this problem but the rear dropouts are slightly out of alignment on my Gain D30. This means the rear wheel is out of alignment towards the near (non drive side) of the bike. It is only by about 4 or 5 mm but it means that if I want to put a larger tyre in, say a 40mm tyre, it will rub the frame. I know it is the frame that is out of alignment rather than issues with the wheel as I have put other wheels in (without riding it) and they all align slightly to the non drive side. Is this normal to expect a certain amount of tolerance or should I expect it to align perfectly, especially as the bike is only 6 weeks old?


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## ianrauk (11 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this problem but the rear dropouts are slightly out of alignment on my Gain D30. This means the rear wheel is out of alignment towards the near (non drive side) of the bike. It is only by about 4 or 5 mm but it means that if I want to put a larger tyre in, say a 40mm tyre, it will rub the frame. I know it is the frame that is out of alignment rather than issues with the wheel as I have put other wheels in (without riding it) and they all align slightly to the non drive side. Is this normal to expect a certain amount of tolerance or should I expect it to align perfectly, especially as the bike is only 6 weeks old?


I had the same problem with a Van Nicholas Ti frame. They replaced it under warranty.


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## Storck (11 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this problem but the rear dropouts are slightly out of alignment on my Gain D30. This means the rear wheel is out of alignment towards the near (non drive side) of the bike. It is only by about 4 or 5 mm but it means that if I want to put a larger tyre in, say a 40mm tyre, it will rub the frame. I know it is the frame that is out of alignment rather than issues with the wheel as I have put other wheels in (without riding it) and they all align slightly to the non drive side. Is this normal to expect a certain amount of tolerance or should I expect it to align perfectly, especially as the bike is only 6 weeks old?



That's rather a large amount South. I would be taking the issue up.


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## Southernguns (12 Jul 2019)

ianrauk said:


> I had the same problem with a Van Nicholas Ti frame. They replaced it under warranty.





Storck said:


> That's rather a large amount South. I would be taking the issue up.



Thanks guys. At least I now know that this is not acceptable. Is this repairable on an aluminium frame or, like ianrauk's Ti frame, am I pushing for a replacement? It is going back to the LBS on the 19th so hopefully they will do the right thing.


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## Storck (12 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Thanks guys. At least I now know that this is not acceptable. Is this repairable on an aluminium frame or, like ianrauk's Ti frame, am I pushing for a replacement? It is going back to the LBS on the 19th so hopefully they will do the right thing.



If it's a dropout alignment issue? Then it should be. I've seen a bike mechanic sort that out, using brute force.


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## Scaleyback (12 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this problem but the rear dropouts are slightly out of alignment on my Gain D30. This means the rear wheel is out of alignment towards the near (non drive side) of the bike. It is only by about 4 or 5 mm but it means that if I want to put a larger tyre in, say a 40mm tyre, it will rub the frame. I know it is the frame that is out of alignment rather than issues with the wheel as I have put other wheels in (without riding it) and they all align slightly to the non drive side. Is this normal to expect a certain amount of tolerance or should I expect it to align perfectly, especially as the bike is only 6 weeks old?



I checked my D30. with a 38mm tyre on the rear I have 7/8mm clearance both sides between tyre & frame.
It is hard to see how your frame could leave the factory so out of alignment. I understand the frame sections are cut in jigs before welding and tested in jigs after welding for any alignment issues. I think the most likely cause is some sort of 'trauma' during transportation or at the retail location. I would expect your alignment issue to affect the handling in some (minor) way ? the rear tyre path is going to be different to the front wheel isn't it ? bit like a tracking issue on 
car tyres.


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## youngoldbloke (12 Jul 2019)

Clearance on mine is pretty even within 1-2 mm, likewise the fork clearance isn't _exactly_ even.


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## Southernguns (12 Jul 2019)

Thank you all for the feedback. I complained again today to the LBS where I bought it and he eventually agreed to take the bike today. He has contacted Orbea and he says they are sending someone out on Tuesday to inspect it. 


Storck said:


> If it's a dropout alignment issue? Then it should be. I've seen a bike mechanic sort that out, using brute force.


Whether anyone is really coming to inspect it or not I do not know - he is probably going to do what Storck said but doesn't want me to see lol.

He did say that it should not be out of alignment like it is and then tried to say I must have given it a real whack (cheeky).



Scaleyback said:


> I checked my D30. with a 38mm tyre on the rear I have 7/8mm clearance both sides between tyre & frame.
> It is hard to see how your frame could leave the factory so out of alignment. I understand the frame sections are cut in jigs before welding and tested in jigs after welding for any alignment issues. I think the most likely cause is some sort of 'trauma' during transportation or at the retail location. I would expect your alignment issue to affect the handling in some (minor) way ? the rear tyre path is going to be different to the front wheel isn't it ? bit like a tracking issue on
> car tyres.


Like you say, Scaley, you'd have thought quality control would check any issues like that before leaving the factory, so maybe it did happen in transportation or in the shop. There is no sign of any damage though. I didn't notice any massive anomaly in handling, other than when I road non-handed I did drift to one side.
I think the LBS might possibly have know about it from day 1, but I think they didn't fit the wheel fully into the drop out on one side in order to get the wheel more central. This didn't pose an issue on the road but as soon as I took it of road on gravel the rougher ground caused the wheel to move fully into the dropout which highlighted just how out of line it actually was. That's my theory anyway hehe!



youngoldbloke said:


> Clearance on mine is pretty even within 1-2 mm, likewise the fork clearance isn't _exactly_ even.



I probably would have been okay with 1 or 2 mm difference but this was is about 5mm, which means I cannot fit a larger tyre. I have 33mm on it currently but was looking at buying a 28mm and a 38mm set of tyres and swapping them for when I want to do either gravel or road riding. 

Anyway, I guess it is just wait and see now.

Thanks again for all the advice.


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## ianrauk (12 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I think the LBS might possibly have know about it from day 1, but I think they didn't fit the wheel fully into the drop out on one side in order to get the wheel more central. This didn't pose an issue on the road but as soon as I took it of road on gravel the rougher ground caused the wheel to move fully into the dropout which highlighted just how out of line it actually was. That's my theory anyway



I would say your theory is spot on. I know for a fact when I first got my VN, the wheel looked correctly set in the drop outs. VN tried to claim all sorts. Wheels, QR levers, brakes etc were to blame. In the end I took the bike to my LBS to check and they confirmed that one of the drop outs was miss aligned. In the end VN conceded and replaced the frame.


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## Southernguns (12 Jul 2019)

ianrauk said:


> I would say your theory is spot on. I know for a fact when I first got my VN, the wheel looked correctly set in the drop outs. VN tried to claim all sorts. Wheels, QR levers, brakes etc were to blame. In the end I took the bike to my LBS to check and they confirmed that one of the drop outs was miss aligned. In the end VN conceded and replaced the frame.


My LBS are being pretty amenable so far so I cannot really complain, but I'm not sure how far that will go should it come to requesting a replacement frame. Hopefully they will be as pleasant and helpful as they are currently. My theory is just that, a theory - as I have no proof, but the rear brake has always been slack and they have never resolved the issue. This is probably because they loosened it off to allow space for the misaligned wheel.


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## Storck (12 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> My LBS are being pretty amenable so far so I cannot really complain, but I'm not sure how far that will go should it come to requesting a replacement frame. Hopefully they will be as pleasant and helpful as they are currently. My theory is just that, a theory - as I have no proof, but the rear brake has always been slack and they have never resolved the issue. This is probably because they loosened it off to allow space for the misaligned wheel.



You've thought it out correctly. Bike shops always setup brakes unless requested? With a close tolerance to the rim.


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## Scaleyback (13 Jul 2019)

Don’t forget to get your spoke tensions checked during service guys, I ‘sprung’ a spoke while riding today !


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## Storck (13 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Don’t forget to get your spoke tensions checked during service guys, I ‘sprung’ a spoke while riding today !



You make it back OK?


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## Southernguns (14 Jul 2019)

That's wheely bad luck

Were you far from home?


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## Scaleyback (14 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> You make it back OK?



Yes thanks, 22 mile ride and I was about 4 miles from home. You can usually ride safely with a spoke out or even a few but of course depends on the surface, riders weight etc. Funny enough I had a service a couple of weeks ago (LBS non Orbea dealer) the mechanic said he would need to check up on the spoke tensions and would get back to me. He never did and I let it slide  now I will get back to him and get them checked.


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## Storck (14 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Yes thanks, 22 mile ride and I was about 4 miles from home. You can usually ride safely with a spoke out or even a few but of course depends on the surface, riders weight etc. Funny enough I had a service a couple of weeks ago (LBS non Orbea dealer) the mechanic said he would need to check up on the spoke tension and would get back to me. He never did and I let it slide  now I will get back to him and get them checked.



Back in the 80's into first 2 miles of tour in France, six spokes popped out. Directly opposite specialist bike shop. Was made most welcome, with a coffee, back on road within the hour. He checked out other wheel before setting off.


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## Solom01 (15 Jul 2019)

Hi folks, just a quick note to let you all know that I got my Gain F30 (just about the cheapest Gain, but I don't have unlimited funds). I got it mail order from Mike's Bike in California. I'm in Venice Florida and there aren't any Gain Dealers anywhere nearby. It would have been nice to buy from a local shop. I didn't save any money buying it mail order, but it was the only way to get it. The packaging was great, no damage and it wasn't in the demo mode, which I was worried could be an issue. I'm 6'2" and have a 34" inseam so the Large size that I got was the right size. I could probably get away with a medium, but I'm glad I got the large. I was surprised to know that besides the iwoc1 control the flatbars also have an iwoc3 control on the handlebars so if you're worried about taking your eyes off the road this makes a nice addition. The ebikemotion app is well worthwhile, it adds a lot of information and gives you more granular control of power levels and so forth - although instructions are a bit cryptic so be prepared to spend some time on it. I'm a huge fan of the Gain at this point. If anything I am getting more exercise than before and although the power level is not huge and the battery capacity is low I don't worry about running out, because it's as easy as a normal bike to ride without the assist. I'm not trying to skimp on power usage yet and can easily get 50-60 miles range if I'm willing to put some leg effort into it. Thank you all for all your help in the process. This is the best ebike I can imagine assuming you're not looking for a moped type experience.


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## Scaleyback (15 Jul 2019)

Welcome Solom01,
If the Gain power output suits you it is a great bike (imo) 
I only have a iwoc1 but I can handle it without looking down. Having said that I don’t change assist levels much so pretty much always know where I am.
I guess the Iwoc3 is going to make the Gain more recognisable as an e-bike some may not want that ? Enjoy !


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## Solom01 (15 Jul 2019)

I agree with you, it's not a big deal to use the iwoc1, but some people seem upset at the idea of briefly looking away. The Iwoc3 is just a small (maybe 1/2" wide) black control with a couple of small leds on the left side of the handlebar nestled against the brake/shift controls so honestly I doubt that it would stand out much. The one thing I do like about it is that it allows you to go up/down and select power levels without cycling through all of them, so that's kind of nice.


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## Storck (15 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I agree with you, it's not a big deal to use the iwoc1, but some people seem upset at the idea of briefly looking away. The Iwoc3 is just a small (maybe 1/2" wide) black control with a couple of small leds on the left side of the handlebar nestled against the brake/shift controls so honestly I doubt that it would stand out much. The one thing I do like about it is that it allows you to go up/down and select power levels without cycling through all of them, so that's kind of nice.



Agree Sol, on the discreet nature of the Iwoc on flat bar Gains. While I have no problem with the Iwoc on the top tube (just like reaching for a bottle) I don't like having to toggle through to get back? I can see Emotion sorting that maybe even for 2020 models?


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## Southernguns (16 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> The one thing I do like about it is that it allows you to go up/down and select power levels without cycling through all of them, so that's kind of nice.


That is probably my only criticism of the bike - with the iwoc1 you have to cycle through. It is no big deal and you soon get used to it, it's just a little irritating. I use it without looking down and always manage to find the level I want (other than when it occasionally has a funny 5 minutes and does all sorts of weird things). However, the option of an easily added/removable iwoc3 would be a nice addition for those that want it on the D and M series bikes. 

I'm glad you are enjoying the Gain, Solom


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## Ckspark (18 Jul 2019)

Hi I'm new to here, I'm thinking of getting my wife a Orbea Gain so she can join me and our son on rides without holding us back too much. She also wants to exercise/train indoors as we already do. My question is does anyone know if the gain can be used on a Tacx Bushido or Vortex wheel on turbo trainer?


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## areyouactuallymoving (18 Jul 2019)

Had my F10 a couple of weeks now, and there is one thing I can't quite work out, which is the power % when using an assist level. It seems that there is less power when I am going slowly, and therefore need the assist more, than when I am already over about 10 mph. I am misunderstanding what the power % represents? Or is there a way to make the power kick in more at lower speeds?

I am also slightly disappointed with the range so far. If I do a hilly 12 miles with full assist on all the time I use up about 35% of the battery from fully charged, (I am using the bike for a commute and full power so I get there un-sweaty or at least less sweaty). This doesn't seem like I would get the range oft quoted. Admittedly I am about 85 kgs, so not a lightweight, but at that level of consumption I would only be able to do 30 miles if I used the assist all the time.


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## Scaleyback (18 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> Hi I'm new to here, I'm thinking of getting my wife a Orbea Gain so she can join me and our son on rides without holding us back too much. She also wants to exercise/train indoors as we already do. My question is does anyone know if the gain can be used on a Tacx Bushido or Vortex wheel on turbo trainer?



I owned a Tacx Vortex 'back in the day' I cannot be certain but I would think the Gain will fit any 'wheel on' trainer. However, if you do use the Gain and subscribe to a cycling simulation game, Zwift ? better make sure the pedal-assist is switched off ? Otherwise she will be posting w/kg (power) figures and times that make her look like a potential recruit for Sky (Ineos) And if I know Zwift (and I do) she will get all sorts of 'dogs abuse' because it will be somewhat obvious from the power & times she is posting that she is on an e-bike. Maybe better to get her a cheap bike just for trainer use than manhandle the heavy Gain into and out of the trainer ?


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## Solom01 (18 Jul 2019)

Hi, I can't really answer the power question since I'm in the US and our Gains are set to cut off power at 20 mph but your range figures seem pretty good. The Orbea has a fairly small battery and it doesn't last very long, especially at the 2 higher assist levels. When I talk about 50-60 miles of range a huge percentage of that is on no-power or just the first level. I'm also riding on flat terrain - I'm sure hills would cut down the range substantially. I guess I see the gain as being more of a regular bike with the assist being there just to help out for short periods of time. Outside of saying that maybe a heavier, more traditional type of eBike with a much larger battery would be more suited to your needs which is not very helpful maybe you should consider buying the optional water bottle battery? It's pretty expensive at about $645 US dollars in the US (although it isn't available yet) but it should just about double your battery capacity and range and you would only have to use it on days when you needed maximum range.


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## areyouactuallymoving (18 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi, I can't really answer the power question since I'm in the US and our Gains are set to cut off power at 20 mph but your range figures seem pretty good. The Orbea has a fairly small battery and it doesn't last very long, especially at the 2 higher assist levels. When I talk about 50-60 miles of range a huge percentage of that is on no-power or just the first level. I'm also riding on flat terrain - I'm sure hills would cut down the range substantially. I guess I see the gain as being more of a regular bike with the assist being there just to help out for short periods of time. Outside of saying that maybe a heavier, more traditional type of eBike with a much larger battery would be more suited to your needs which is not very helpful maybe you should consider buying the optional water bottle battery? It's pretty expensive at about $645 US dollars in the US (although it isn't available yet) but it should just about double your battery capacity and range and you would only have to use it on days when you needed maximum range.



Sorry, I maybe didn't explain it very well. The bikes here cut out at 15.5 mph. I was talking about the 'power' gauge in the app and that I appear to get less assist when I'm going at about 6mph up a hill than when I'm going about 10mph on a smaller hill.

The Gain is very definitely the right bike for me, all I am after is a bit of help up hills. While I have used full assist on the way there, I only use it with assist when really necessary on the way home when it doesn't matter if I arrive sweaty. I am already cycling further and more frequently and loving the bike.

The range just seems to be a bit less than promised, especially as I am going at over 15.5 mph for a fair bit of time and therefore not using the assist. But I know terrain and rider (& pannier etc. ) weight will affect how it performs for me.


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## Ckspark (19 Jul 2019)

I took my wife to test ride the Gain F40 and D50 at a nearby cycle shop. She preferred and bought the F40 because she is not used to drop bars or road levers, preferred the hydraulic disc brakes and the additional iwok3 on the F40. I'm planning on changing the heavy tyres for something lighter and tubeless. She took it out for a 15 mile ride today and really enjoyed it. The only issue she had was with the app which she started recording before hand but doesn't seem to show any of power or assistance usage.
With regards to the turbo trainer, yes we do use Zwift but have no intention of cheating. The beauty of the Gain was the ability to use it as a standard, if heavy, un assisted bike as well.


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## Southernguns (20 Jul 2019)

areyouactuallymoving said:


> Sorry, I maybe didn't explain it very well. The bikes here cut out at 15.5 mph. I was talking about the 'power' gauge in the app and that I appear to get less assist when I'm going at about 6mph up a hill than when I'm going about 10mph on a smaller hill.
> 
> The range just seems to be a bit less than promised, especially as I am going at over 15.5 mph for a fair bit of time and therefore not using the assist. But I know terrain and rider (& pannier etc. ) weight will affect how it performs for me.



I find that I use a lot of power quickly when going up 12 - 20% climbs, especially in Level 3 assist (red - set at 100%) on gravel. The other day I covered 7 miles uphill and had used 25% of the battery. However, as soon as I hit downhill and flat, even though I was on gravel and always travelling at less than 15.5 mph so was constantly using the battery, I was able to use only Level 1 power assist (green set at 100%) and found that after 24 miles total riding I still had 56% battery remaining. I also find similar results on road when riding hilly terrain but rarely use Level 3 assist on road and all rides tend to average out at about 1% per mile on the road.

I have also played around a lot with technique. Riding slowly, but spinning low gears seems to be much easier and give more assistance for me than trying to grind up hills in slightly higher gears. I have not looked into how this effects battery usage though. I have also not played with the power levels much as my bike is currently being replaced after the frame was damaged in transit. However, it might be worth experimenting and seeing if having Level 1 (green assist) at 100% uses less battery than say Level 2 (orange) at 75% and so on, rather than say level 1 at 75% which may mean you turn to using level 2 earlier on your commute. Thus resulting in more battery usage over the total distance. It might require some experimenting. It might also be worth bearing in mind that you are using the flat bar version so you are going to be less aerodynamic than riders on the drop bar versions. If you are lucky enough to be broad shouldered and barrel chested then you will be less aerodynamic again. I guess this would use more battery than a rider on the drop bar version. If the aim for your commute is to arrive non sweaty then I would have all 3 levels on 100% for your commute (you can always have an alternative setting for non commute rides). Having said that, I have never been able to do a ride on the gain without being sweaty as the bike is designed to still make you work.


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## Southernguns (20 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> .
> With regards to the turbo trainer, yes we do use Zwift but have no intention of cheating. The beauty of the Gain was the ability to use it as a standard, if heavy, un assisted bike as well.



I have seen one put on a turbo trainer for a bike fit (no idea what model turbo trainer). It worked fine without battery power but as soon as the battery was turned on it raced away from the rider and he could not pedal fast enough to keep up with it!! Proper funny! In theory you could disconnect the power and put in a different back wheel (might need to check spindle/hub sizes?) making it no different to any other bike on a turbo trainer.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> I took my wife to test ride the Gain F40 and D50 at a nearby cycle shop. She preferred and bought the F40 because she is not used to drop bars or road levers, preferred the hydraulic disc brakes and the additional iwok3 on the F40. I'm planning on changing the heavy tyres for something lighter and tubeless. She took it out for a 15 mile ride today and really enjoyed it. The only issue she had was with the app which she started recording before hand but doesn't seem to show any of power or assistance usage.
> With regards to the turbo trainer, yes we do use Zwift but have no intention of cheating. The beauty of the Gain was the ability to use it as a standard, if heavy, un assisted bike as well.



Thankfully the weight of the Gain is irrelevant when used on a trainer of course.
“Cheating” an emotive word often used on Zwift forums by lycra clad ‘bully boys’ who view anyone with suspicion who has the termerity to actually overtake them Imo you are paying the same subs as everyone else so ‘play the game’ as you see fit and if you need assistance to climb alp d’huez then use your pedal-assistance. I would draw the line at pedal assistance when actually competing in Zwift official races of course. The ‘app’ is a lot better than it used to be so persevere and she should get the hang of it.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jul 2019)

Gentlemen/Ladies can anyone help ?

Does anyone have a proven contact Tel No or email address for Orbea in the UK ?

I 'popped' a spoke on my Gain a week ago. I took it to my LBS who I know and trust. The Orbea dealer I purchased from is 80 odd miles from me.
Not being familiar with this bike my LBS wants to know the spoke tension for the wheel.
We cannot find this out. Orbea dealer in Lancaster cannot get a reply from Orbea. LBS cannot get a reply from the email they are trying.
This is ridiculous ! Orbea are selling in a World wide market, it has to be possible to find this information.
Any help appreciated.


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## Solom01 (20 Jul 2019)

Hi Ckspark. About your app question, I love my Gain but the instructions on the app are pretty horrible. In my particular case I first turn on the Gain, then I turn on the eBikemotion app. After turning on the app. I go to settings, and tell the app to connect with the bike. I know that's supposed to be automatic, but without specifically asking it to connect it tends to be kind of iffy. After I manually connect it shows the POW, battery levels and so forth correctly. Of course you have to start a new activity for each ride and save it at the end. Hopefully that will help. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but I just about lost what little mind I have left trying to figure out how to use the app. And for what it's worth it's not a language barrier, their instructions are equally bad in English AND Spanish.


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## Venod (20 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I 'popped' a spoke on my Gain a week ago. I took it to my LBS who I know and trust. The Orbea dealer I purchased from is 80 odd miles from me.
> Not being familiar with this bike my LBS wants to know the spoke tension for the wheel.
> We cannot find this out. Orbea dealer in Lancaster cannot get a reply from Orbea. LBS cannot get a reply from the email they are trying.
> This is ridiculous ! Orbea are selling in a World wide market, it has to be possible to find this information.
> Any help appreciated.



I may be missing something here, but to get you rolling again, can't the LBS measure the tension of other spokes in the wheel and tension the new one the same, or near to get the wheel true, they may be thinking the wrong tension led to the breakage.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jul 2019)

Afnug said:


> I may be missing something here, but to get you rolling again, can't the LBS measure the tension of other spokes in the wheel and tension the new one the same, or near to get the wheel true, they may be thinking the wrong tension led to the breakage.



The simple answer to your question is 'I don't know' but I will ask. Maybe they are concerned they may all be wrongly tensioned ? I have never 'popped' a spoke on any other bike I have owned and that covers a lot of years and miles. However, I have another bike so I am not 'off the road' and frankly educated guesswork shouldn't be necessary, this info should be available.


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## arao99 (20 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I took delivery of an Orbea Gain D30 2019 a couple of days ago. This is the Shimano 105 build which has changed from the 2018 version.
> I purchased the bike from Leisure Lakes (Lancaster branch) the only one in stock. I had full SKS mudguards fitted and Schwalbe G-One 38c tyres. The service and staff of Leisure Lakes was excellent.
> As delivered the bike weighed 14.9 kg. (weighed on a Park Tool bike scale) I imagine the bigger tyres and mudguards may account for approx 0.9 kg ?
> 
> ...


Good report Roy . How are the Schwalbe G-One 38c tyres, I have the Orbea Gain M30 and am thinking of fitting these tyres so I can ride canal path and light gravel.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jul 2019)

arao99 said:


> Good report Roy . How are the Schwalbe G-One 38c tyres, I have the Orbea Gain M30 and am thinking of fitting these tyres so I can ride canal path and light gravel.



Hi Pal,
Well, I am more than happy with the tyres. The ones I have are the Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622 but as you have stated they are actually 38c.
The Gain M30 is a carbon frame, yes ? you sure the carbon frames will take a tyre that size ? 
This is Schwalbe's summary of the tyre. https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround.html
They also do a variant called G-ONE Speed. I have used these on a different bike and they are brilliant, but definitely road orientated
so you are better to stick with the G-ONE Allround. They will do just fine on the surfaces you mention.
A lot of riders avoid these 'fatter' tyres but the comfort gained on our broken roads is (imo) well worth a little extra weight and frankly who cares on a pedal-assisted bike ? These G-ONE's are tubeless compatible but I still use tubes.
Here is a Road.CC review I just stumbled across.  https://road.cc/content/review/190493-schwalbe-g-one


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## youngoldbloke (20 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi Ckspark. About your app question, I love my Gain but the instructions on the app are pretty horrible. In my particular case I first turn on the Gain, then I turn on the eBikemotion app. After turning on the app. I go to settings, and tell the app to connect with the bike. I know that's supposed to be automatic, but without specifically asking it to connect it tends to be kind of iffy. After I manually connect it shows the POW, battery levels and so forth correctly. Of course you have to start a new activity for each ride and save it at the end. Hopefully that will help. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but I just about lost what little mind I have left trying to figure out how to use the app. And for what it's worth it's not a language barrier, their instructions are equally bad in English AND Spanish.


- that is pretty much the method I use. If I paired the bike with phone I had problems, so I connect manually each ride. The app is now much more stable than it was in the early days when you were lucky if you managed to complete a ride without it dropping out. The instructions are really unhelpful - not sure they have been revised at all to correspond with the updated app.


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## Ckspark (20 Jul 2019)

We are still having trouble with the app. We connected to the EBN and started recording the activity. My wife then put the phone in her rear jersey pocket. When we stopped after a couple of miles it had disconnected. We connected it again but it just kept happening. When we got home I noticed the activity had continued to record but only the first couple of miles of assistance and power had recorded.

On a separate note I replaced the stock tyres with Panaracer gravel king 35c setup as tubeless with sealant. It saved over 1 kilo off the overall weight.


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## Solom01 (20 Jul 2019)

Well that may explain it. The app needs to have access to GPS to know your speed, locattion, etc. and the bluetooth connection isn't the best - if the phone is in a pocket it could very well interfere with bluetooth and it will definitely kill gps signals. I use mine on a handlebar mount which is where I think they expect it to be used. I may be wrong, but I know that even when I'm using wireless headsets at home having my phone in my left pocket will cause the sound to sometimes drop out.


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## Scaleyback (20 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Well that may explain it. The app needs to have access to GPS to know your speed, locattion, etc. and the bluetooth connection isn't the best - if the phone is in a pocket it could very well interfere with bluetooth and it will definitely kill gps signals.



Hmm ! I have used the app a few times with the phone in my rear jersey pocket with no problems. That shouldn’t be a problem for the BT connection.


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Gentlemen/Ladies can anyone help ?
> 
> Does anyone have a proven contact Tel No or email address for Orbea in the UK ?



Unfortunately not a UK one. The only email I know of it this: online.es@orbea.com
Maybe (possibly?) they would be able to give you an email/number that you could contact in the UK


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> We are still having trouble with the app. We connected to the EBN and started recording the activity. My wife then put the phone in her rear jersey pocket. When we stopped after a couple of miles it had disconnected. We connected it again but it just kept happening. When we got home I noticed the activity had continued to record but only the first couple of miles of assistance and power had recorded.



I run the app on my phone using a phone holder on my handlebars as I also use the Komoot app alongside it for mapping rides (and a Mio for recording HR and cadence via bluetooth - it is like the Starship Enterprise and probably adds a kilo to the bike!!). I've never had an issue with the app at all, or any of the other bluetooth devices. I have never tried it in my jersey, but in theory bluetooth should easily reach your back pocket. However, having said that, the human body is known to block bluetooth signals pretty well and cause interference so it might be worth testing it on the handlebars, or on a phone holder strapped to the arm - like runners use. I use an android phone rather than iphone - I don't know if that makes a difference, but it is completely stable on all 3 of my android phones.


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## Storck (21 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hmm ! I have used the app a few times with the phone in my rear jersey pocket with no problems. That shouldn’t be a problem for the BT connection.



Yeah, me too. Always in fear pocket. Never lost connection. Guess it may have something to do with actual phone? I use Galaxy 5. It works well with all the connections I use it for eg. Amazon Music (stream to Echo device)


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

If it works in other peoples pockets then it is probably an issue with phone or app. Motorola g5, Lenovo p2 and Pocophone f1. No issues on any. Try reinstalling the app maybe?


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I 'popped' a spoke on my Gain a week ago. I took it to my LBS who I know and trust. The Orbea dealer I purchased from is 80 odd miles from me.
> Not being familiar with this bike my LBS wants to know the spoke tension for the wheel.



Interestingly you are not alone: 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehRuhWwZxI
watch from 7:25 ish


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## robgul (21 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Interestingly you are not alone:
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehRuhWwZxI
> watch from 7:25 ish




Interesting but a bit ponderous with the presentation - he could have done the lot in about 5 minutes max. 

Spoke issue is inconclusive - it's pretty rare in normal riding to bust a spoke - he was probably just unlucky.

Rob


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

Yeah, it is a bit painful!


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## Scaleyback (21 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Interestingly you are not alone:
> View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehRuhWwZxI
> watch from 7:25 ish




Thanks for that, and yes, you almost lose the will to live watching that, bless him ! However I probably couldn’t do any better. The ‘spoke’ problem is interesting, at 70kg and riding on ‘good’ roads I shouldn’t be losing spokes so maybe some inherent design/build problem ?


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## Southernguns (21 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> The ‘spoke’ problem is interesting, at 70kg and riding on ‘good’ roads I shouldn’t be losing spokes so maybe some inherent design/build problem ?


That same thought had crossed my mind but I have ridden my D30 on four fairly rough gravel rides and a few road rides now and not experienced any issues with the spokes and I thought that sort of riding might have caused them to pop if they were going to. So maybe, like Rob said, you have just been unlucky.


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## Solom01 (21 Jul 2019)

Hi folks, sorry if I'm asking about something that has already been answered. I looked but couldn't find anything. I was wondering about the eBikemotion app. I know, of course, that it uses Bluetooth, but does it also use the phone's GPS? I'm guessing it must for at least the map portion and probably the speed, but I really don't know. What the heck does the RPM display stand for? It certainly can't be cadence - I guess it could be the motor RPM but why would anyone want to know that? I know when I look at the reports the cadence it's showing seem totally nonsensical. Thanks and I apologize if this has been asked already. I wish they would actually put out a decent manual for this app.


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## Storck (21 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks, sorry if I'm asking about something that has already been answered. I looked but couldn't find anything. I was wondering about the eBikemotion app. I know, of course, that it uses Bluetooth, but does it also use the phone's GPS? I'm guessing it must for at least the map portion and probably the speed, but I really don't know. What the heck does the RPM display stand for? It certainly can't be cadence - I guess it could be the motor RPM but why would anyone want to know that? I know when I look at the reports the cadence it's showing seem totally nonsensical. Thanks and I apologize if this has been asked already. I wish they would actually put out a decent manual for this app.


I've noticed? For me at least. The cadence figure while looking way off, is always more or less twice my average cadence recorded by my Mio (Magellan) that sits on the stem!


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## Solom01 (21 Jul 2019)

Thanks, that's helpful I'll just divide by 2... Works for me.


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## Ckspark (22 Jul 2019)

For anyone who may be interested, I found a very comprehensive user PDF manual for the APP on the ebikemotion web site:
https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/ebikemotion-app/


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## robgul (22 Jul 2019)

Hmm - I'm getting lost with all this App stuff - I just ride my Gain using the button on the cross-bar (sorry, "down-tube" in new money) to use green - amber - red as I feel the need for speed - am I missing anything of value/use? Navigation and what minimal recording I want is a Garmin 1000.

Rob


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## Ckspark (22 Jul 2019)

robgul said:


> Hmm - I'm getting lost with all this App stuff - I just ride my Gain using the button on the cross-bar (sorry, "down-tube" in new money) to use green - amber - red as I feel the need for speed - am I missing anything of value/use? Navigation and what minimal recording I want is a Garmin 1000.
> 
> Rob


The Garmin 1000 is a lot more complex than the ebikemotion app. So the only thing you are missing by not using the app over something like that is accurate charge level%, estimated range and a log of what assistance level setting and motor watts was used at any point during the ride.


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## Scaleyback (22 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> The Garmin 1000 is a lot more complex than the ebikemotion app. So the only thing you are missing by not using the app over something like that is accurate charge level%, estimated range and a log of what assistance level setting and motor watts was used at any point during the ride.



I don’t use the app when I ride. I don’t need it and that women’s voice (seems impossible to switch off) drives me nuts. I have a Garmin 130 that does everything I need. I just log on with the app after my ride if I want to check the battery state.


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## Storck (22 Jul 2019)

I have (as some of you know a M20i Gain) Love it so much, however it doesn't take a guard. So I'm getting an alloy version for winter riding. For those of you who may know? What guards have you fitted and what max tyre width have you managed to get under them?


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## Solom01 (22 Jul 2019)

The app does one more thing that may or may not be useful to you. As delivered the power for each of the three levels is set at 100%. I've left it at this until I get more used to the bike but if you feel that any of the levels is providing too much power the app allows one to set each level at whatever they want, so you could leave level 1 at 100%, set level 2 to 80% and level 3 to 70% power or whatever you want. This may lower your power level and theoretically waste less battery power and as far as I am aware the only way to fine tune the power levels is on the app. I also found the voice annoying, but was able to turn it off somewhere in the settings so now it is blissfully quiet.


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## robgul (22 Jul 2019)

Ckspark said:


> The Garmin 1000 is a lot more complex than the ebikemotion app. So the only thing you are missing by not using the app over something like that is accurate charge level%, estimated range and a log of what assistance level setting and motor watts was used at any point during the ride.



Ah - that's all good then - I'm not over-concerned about the battery charge level (the indicator lights tell me on a basis that's close enough) or the assistance/motor watts stuff. I work on the basis that never mind all the stats I'm pleased if I get home after a ride, whichever bike I'm on 

Rob


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## Scaleyback (22 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> I have (as some of you know a M20i Gain) Love it so much, however it doesn't take a guard. So I'm getting an alloy version for winter riding. For those of you who may know? What guards have you fitted and what max tyre width have you managed to get under them?



I have full length SKS mudguards (Bluemels I think) on my D30. I have a 38c tyre on the rear and a 35c tyre on the front. I found the 38c tyre on the front caught the guard stay when subjected to bad surfaces (vibration) It is not dangerous just an annoying 'Zzzz' The 35c tyre gives that little bit of extra clearance.
Maybe with trial and eror and mudguard adjustment you could get away with 38c on the front ? Of course tyres do vary in size (even within a stated size)
so your experience may differ.


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## Widge (22 Jul 2019)

I wonder if any kind soul on this thread could take a moment to read my post regarding sizing issues with the Orbea gain?

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-bike-sizing-dilemma-any-wisdom-appreciated.251514/

I'm not sure that I ought to cross post the thread?

Many Thanks

Widge


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## Storck (22 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I wonder if any kind soul on this thread could take a moment to read my post regarding sizing issues with the Orbea gain?
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-bike-sizing-dilemma-any-wisdom-appreciated.251514/
> 
> ...



Widge, I got a medium. I'm taller than you ride with a 120mm stem. Normally I ride a 56cm, the medium is equivalent to 54cm. You need a small. It ain't that small, I've seen plenty in my LBS. They told me I needed a M, was sceptical at first. However as soon as I sat on I knew what they where getting at.


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## Storck (22 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I have full length SKS mudguards (Bluemels I think) on my D30. I have a 38c tyre on the rear and a 35c tyre on the front. I found the 38c tyre on the front caught the guard stay when subjected to bad surfaces (vibration) It is not dangerous just an annoying 'Zzzz' The 35c tyre gives that little bit of extra clearance.
> Maybe with trial and eror and mudguard adjustment you could get away with 38c on the front ? Of course tyres do vary in size (even within a stated size)
> so your experience may differ.



Thanks Scaley, I'm happy with 28-32 tyres, so it doesn't seem a problem?


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## Scaleyback (22 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I wonder if any kind soul on this thread could take a moment to read my post regarding sizing issues with the Orbea gain?
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-bike-sizing-dilemma-any-wisdom-appreciated.251514/
> 
> ...



Hi Widge,
I also think you need a small Orbea Gain. I am about 5’8 1/2 these days (shrinking) I have always ridden a medium (54cm ?) in other brands and was reluctant to accept Orbea dealer advice to get a small Gain. But I got the small and it is perfect. Plenty of adjustment of course.


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## Southernguns (23 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I wonder if any kind soul on this thread could take a moment to read my post regarding sizing issues with the Orbea gain?
> 
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-bike-sizing-dilemma-any-wisdom-appreciated.251514/



I agree with Storck and Scaley: go for a small. According to the Orbea sizing charts I should be a large, but I test road a medium and it felt right. Scaley and Storck also advised me to stick with the Medium and it is the correct size for me. I had a bike fit recently and had to have a couple of things changed as the bloke doing the bike fit said it was just a smidgen too big!


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## Southernguns (23 Jul 2019)

Also I am in Somerset if you want to try a Medium. It will confirm if it is too big. 

I bought my D30 from a bike shop near me - closer than your 200 miles if you are in S Devon. I can let you have the details if you wish.


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## Widge (23 Jul 2019)

OH HOLY DONKEY RISSOLES..........

I've only just gone and bought it!
The '105' equipped D30, for just a couple 'o hundred more than a D50, that vickster spotted (Thanks vickster and Southernguns!)

It was their 'showroom model' hence the clearance price I suspect-but I am assured it is all pukka and will be pdi'd/shipped ready to go during the week........

I really kind of wanted the D50......but as usual, for all the huff and puff, Tredz actually only have Medium in stock. All others pre odered for September. Everywhere else I looked had a similar story ,especially for 'small'

I hope I have done the right thing? Shimano 105 is way above my pay-scale! I've never had hydraulic anything so hope I can get my head around the brake set-up etc.

The salesman seemed to think the size would suit me too (He WOULD say that though wouldn't he?)

Watch this space,

Please do your best to reassure me won't you? Its a big spend for a bottom-dollar merchant like me. 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts regarding size. Small definitely seemed the consensus.

All Best
Yours anxiously

widge


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## youngoldbloke (23 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> I have (as some of you know a M20i Gain) Love it so much, however it doesn't take a guard. So I'm getting an alloy version for winter riding. For those of you who may know? What guards have you fitted and what max tyre width have you managed to get under them?


SKS 45mm matt black Mudguards. Flaps front and rear. From Tredz. Running 28 mm GP4000Sii's (actually measure 32mm) year round. Alloy Gain 2018 Tiagra version. 
BTW no problems with spokes as yet in over 1900 miles. I had a fitting for the bike before I bought it and a small recommended, and then set up for me on delivery, which fits me perfectly and corresponds almost exactly to the frame sizes and fitting on my 4 other conventional road bikes. I'm short - 5'5", but have a long reach.


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## Storck (23 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> OH HOLY DONKEY RISSOLES..........
> 
> I've only just gone and bought it!
> The '105' equipped D30, for just a couple 'o hundred more than a D50, that vickster spotted (Thanks vickster and Southernguns!)
> ...



Very pleased for you. Yes you made the right choice. Don't expect too much at first. Riding a strange bike, sorting out position and been keen, all adds up to higher heart rate etc. It took me a month to really appreciate the Gain and what it does that is best at for ME. I am still now only fully understanding it's advantages. That's why I'm getting another one for winter riding.


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## Storck (23 Jul 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> SKS 45mm matt black Mudguards. Flaps front and rear. From Tredz. Running 28 mm GP4000Sii's (actually measure 32mm) year round. Alloy Gain 2018 Tiagra version.
> BTW no problems with spokes as yet in over 1900 miles. I had a fitting for the bike before I bought it and a small recommended, and then set up for me on delivery, which fits me perfectly and corresponds almost exactly to the frame sizes and fitting on my 4 other conventional road bikes. I'm short - 5'5", but have a long reach.



Thanks Young, like you? I do love the Conti's.


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## Scaleyback (23 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> OH HOLY DONKEY RISSOLES..........
> 
> I've only just gone and bought it!
> The '105' equipped D30, for just a couple 'o hundred more than a D50, that vickster spotted (Thanks vickster and Southernguns!)
> ...



Well done, that is the bike I have, I got a small discount and fitted guards but that is a monster saving. Excellent buy.


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## Southernguns (23 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I've only just gone and bought it!
> The '105' equipped D30, for just a couple 'o hundred more than a D50, that vickster spotted



Well done, Widge. And for that price it is a steal and definitely 100% worth the small extra over the D50!!! I have had claris and sora groupsets on cheap bikes over the years. Then I bought an almost new second hand road bike with 105 in order to start cycling more seriously. Wow, what a difference. It was probably because it was set up better and it was a better quality bike but the difference was like night and day. Smoother, more accurate changes, no missed gears etc, much better brakes. So when I bought the Gain I was only ever going to get a D30 or higher spec. I wouldn't worry too much about the hydraulic brakes - there are loads of youtube videos online showing how to service them - I reckon I could do it and I am no wizz with the spanners (but I can follow instructions). An LBS won't charge much to service them though.

Like Storck said - it takes a while to adjust and understand the bike. I have had mine about 2 months and am still learning and playing around and working things out - but I absolutely love it . I use my normal road bike and I cannot say I enjoy it - it is just a necessary evil to keep my fitness up and I never look forward to a ride. But after using the Gain I am actually enjoying cycling for the first time ever (I am a runner really but injuries have forced me onto 2 wheels) and cannot wait to get back out on it. The first couple of rides were interesting and I felt that I wasn't getting the best out of the bike. I did wonder if I had made a wrong decision, but adjustments in riding position and technique made a huge difference. I find spinning up hills provides more assistance than grinding my way up them, but other people on here have said that they find the opposite. The guys & gals on here are really good and full of useful advice so any issue it is worth asking.


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## Storck (23 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Well done, Widge. And for that price it is a steal and definitely 100% worth the small extra over the D50!!! I have had claris and sora groupsets on cheap bikes over the years. Then I bought an almost new second hand road bike with 105 in order to start cycling more seriously. Wow, what a difference. It was probably because it was set up better and it was a better quality bike but the difference was like night and day. Smoother, more accurate changes, no missed gears etc, much better brakes. So when I bought the Gain I was only ever going to get a D30 or higher spec. I wouldn't worry too much about the hydraulic brakes - there are loads of youtube videos online showing how to service them - I reckon I could do it and I am no wizz with the spanners (but I can follow instructions). An LBS won't charge much to service them though.
> 
> Like Storck said - it takes a while to adjust and understand the bike. I have had mine about 2 months and am still learning and playing around and working things out - but I absolutely love it . I use my normal road bike and I cannot say I enjoy it - it is just a necessary evil to keep my fitness up and I never look forward to a ride. But after using the Gain I am actually enjoying cycling for the first time ever (I am a runner really but injuries have forced me onto 2 wheels) and cannot wait to get back out on it. The first couple of rides were interesting and I felt that I wasn't getting the best out of the bike. I did wonder if I had made a wrong decision, but adjustments in riding position and technique made a huge difference. I find spinning up hills provides more assistance than grinding my way up them, but other people on here have said that they find the opposite. The guys & gals on here are really good and full of use advice so any issue it is worth asking.



Spinning the way to go on hills for most effective assist. I still am a "Grinder" on the flats. Decades of riding ain't gonna change overnight. But after many different riding scenarios uphill, without doubt lots of "RPM" gets the most out of the motor. So you will see me now - sat in the saddle turning those pedals uphill. Far more efficient.


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## arao99 (25 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Pal,
> Well, I am more than happy with the tyres. The ones I have are the Schwalbe G-ONE Allround, 40-622 but as you have stated they are actually 38c.
> The Gain M30 is a carbon frame, yes ? you sure the carbon frames will take a tyre that size ?
> This is Schwalbe's summary of the tyre. https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allround.html
> ...


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## Storck (25 Jul 2019)

App update available for Ebikemotion.


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## Solom01 (25 Jul 2019)

Hi folks. So I downloaded the app update for the Ebikemotion app. Bad mistake, it worked get having "server errors" when trying to download the Maps I had paid for. I sent a message to Ebikemotion and in a few hours another update appeared. It went from bad to worse, now the App refuses to connect to my bike at all, so basically the app is now worthless. I tried force stopping the app, uninstalling and reinstalling - nothing seems to work. Is anyone else having the same problem? I'm using this with a OnePlus 6 on Pie. Life is too short to mess around with a buggy app so I ordered a Garmin, but if I can't get the app to work I won't be able to keep track of exact battery state, change the power settings or anything else. I've learned my lesson - if I get this to work again no more updating.


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## Storck (25 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. So I downloaded the app update for the Ebikemotion app. Bad mistake, it worked get having "server errors" when trying to download the Maps I had paid for. I sent a message to Ebikemotion and in a few hours another update appeared. It went from bad to worse, now the App refuses to connect to my bike at all, so basically the app is now worthless. I tried force stopping the app, uninstalling and reinstalling - nothing seems to work. Is anyone else having the same problem? I'm using this with a OnePlus 6 on Pie. Life is too short to mess around with a buggy app so I ordered a Garmin, but if I can't get the app to work I won't be able to keep track of exact battery state, change the power settings or anything else. I've learned my lesson - if I get this to work again no more updating.



No problem for me, using Galaxy 5.


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## Scaleyback (25 Jul 2019)

Thanks arao99,
Yes, this busted spoke is a pain. I understand it is possible to test the spoke tension on the existing spokes and use that as a guide but my LBS man (who I have used for some years) is reluctant to do that as he is not sure the others are correct. He wants to be sure it’s right (and so do I) We have made email contact with someone at Orbea UK so hopefully this ‘saga’ is near it’s end ?


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## Solom01 (25 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> No problem for me, using Galaxy 5.


Thanks Storck, it totally won't work for me, maybe because my phone runs PIE (I'm not sure if the Galaxy 5 does). I'll try it on an old Galaxy Note 4 I have and see if that works.


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## Southernguns (25 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Thanks Storck, it totally won't work for me, maybe because my phone runs PIE (I'm not sure if the Galaxy 5 does). I'll try it on an old Galaxy Note 4 I have and see if that works.



Works for me with no issues on Android Oreo, Pie and 10Q. Having said that, I have not updated the app to its latest version. I also do not use the maps. I use an app called Komoot and run it from one of my phones - it's a brilliant app and I use it over my Garmin.


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## Solom01 (25 Jul 2019)

Ok it works on a Note 4 and an LG stylus running Oreo, although maps still won't download. Apparently they just have old phones at Ebikemotion, since it doesn't work with PIE. Hope they fix that soon.


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## Solom01 (26 Jul 2019)

There was yet another update for the ebikemotion app this morning. To give them credit after this last update my OnePlus 6 running on Pie now connects to the app. The maps still won't download (some message about problems with the map provider's server) but at least I can now change settings on my Orbea. I have no idea if the problem was caused by the new app having problems with Pie, or bluetooth 5 or what, but it's working now and I don't plan on updating it again since I'll be using the Garmin for most things.


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## youngoldbloke (26 Jul 2019)

Had a lot of trouble with the app for months after buying the bike a year ago but after recent updates working as it should. I must have uninstalled/reinstalled 4 or 5 times in the past. Using a Motorola MOTO e5 Android, mostly for monitoring the bike and recording activity then uploading to dashboard.


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## Widge (27 Jul 2019)

Well......I've had my new D30 for a couple of days - and it is a steep learning curve!
Forgive me if I ask a few 'stupid' questions , won't you?

With regard to charging -

How long does it take (I know this depends on the state of charge already in the battery) but some indications (say from flashing orange back to to steady white?)based on your experience would be most helpful.
Do you tend to leave it or monitor it carefully?
Also...the charging unit gets surprisingly warm! Is it the same for you? I can't quite work out how to plug the charger end into the bike socket quickly and easily either-and seem to have to faff a bit getting it orientated. Perhaps I'm getting a bit 'senior' for all this electrikery all at once?

Thanks people.

And BIG thanks to all who suggested size 'Small'! Medium would have been mahoosive for me.

All this and more to come I suspect.............................................

All Best

widge


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## youngoldbloke (27 Jul 2019)

Piece of insulation tape to help insertion of the plug. BTW the plug and socket have arrows in the moulding, just visible. The ring with rectangular ears can be rotated and drops down to lock the plug in the socket. Just put mine on charge from 37% remaining. I'll try and remember to check how long it takes to steady white. I tend to leave it and check every hour or so and more often when flashing white. Charger does get warm. I'll report time later.


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## youngoldbloke (27 Jul 2019)

- reckon under 3 hrs from 37% to 100% - constant white / green light on charger.


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## Widge (27 Jul 2019)

Thanks, youngoldbloke, that's great info.........and reassuring that a warm charger is to be expected......And....a brilliant way to make sure the the bike plug/socket are aligned!
So....would you leave your bike charging overnight-or is that to be considered a No-No?

Thanks again

widge


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## Solom01 (27 Jul 2019)

Hi Widge. In answer to your question my charger gets fairly warn too. I own 3 eBikes and they all tend to get warm, although it shouldn't get so hot that you can't hold it. Although charging overnight probably isn't going to be a disaster I have a healthy respect for lithium batteries - if by some chance they ignite all hell breaks loose and it could easily burn down your house so I make it a rule never to charge a bike whem I'm not around to keep an eye on it....just on the off chance that something goes wrong. Lithium battery chemistry is pretty well known and it's basically the same for any good lithium battery, so if you want to extend the life of the battery as long as possible you should never charge it above 80-90%, try to keep it from going below 20% and if possible never go to 0 - that is extremely hard on the cells and will degrade the battery pretty quickly. If you're not going to use the bike for a while you should try to leave it with about a 50% charge, never let it stay empty for long and don't leave it at 100% for any length of time. Although that applies to any eBike battery it's more of a pain if the Gain battery goes bad since it's not easily user replaceable. I don't really know where you're located but I'm in South West Florida where it is unbelieveably hot - when I rode today it was 100F with about 90% humidity, so at home I make sure to keep the bike inside my house where it doesn't get too hot. Not a problem here, but the same applies to leaving it in a place where it's really cold. Youngoldbloke, thanks for the tape tip. I saw where the plugs have a mark but it's black on black - Basque eyes must be incredibly good I can never see them and it's a pain to plug in. Your tip of marking it with tape is going to save me a lot of time and cussing.


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## robgul (27 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> Thanks, youngoldbloke, that's great info.........and reassuring that a warm charger is to be expected......And....a brilliant way to make sure the the bike plug/socket are aligned!
> So....would you leave your bike charging overnight-or is that to be considered a No-No?
> 
> Thanks again
> ...



My socket/charger have a dot of red paint that I applied - the arrows to line up are almost invisible to the naked eye!

... and I have to say I leave mine overnight - the charger cuts out (so I am told) when the battery is full.

Rob


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## Solom01 (27 Jul 2019)

Rob statisitcally you're right, I probably have a higher chance of getting hit by lighting in Florida than having my Gain catch fire and every reputable charger has a cut off when a battery hits full, but....human assemblers make mistakes, and especially with a mobile item like an eBike a simple spill could look like there's no real damage to the bike - but the internal battery could be damaged by the shock. I was just reading a story about a Kona EV in Montreal that caught fire today and blew the garage door off. I'm sure I'm OCD about this but there's a reason why our Gains aren't allowed on commercial airline flights. But the odds of anything going wrong are fairly tiny, so I understand why some people aren't concerned about it.


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## Southernguns (28 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> With regard to charging -
> 
> How long does it take (I know this depends on the state of charge already in the battery) but some indications (say from flashing orange back to to steady white?)based on your experience would be most helpful.
> Do you tend to leave it or monitor it carefully?


I read somewhere on an Orbea website that it is supposed to take about 3 hours to charge from flat but I have never tested this. It also said that the iwoc light stops blinking and turns solid white when fully charged - which mine does. I tend to put mine on charge only when I am around. Having had 2 dishwashers catch fire on me I am now OCD about leaving anything like this plugged in without me being at home. I also use a plug timer which turns the plug off after a set amount of time - I know what my memory is like!

As for inserting the charger (youngoldbloke, I like insulation tape idea) if you look at the pins the 2 "curvy misshapen teardrop" sections are slightly different sizes, from memory (and mine is not great) the larger "curvy misshapen teardrop" section goes towards the rear of the bike - and sorry for the really bad description!


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## Southernguns (28 Jul 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I don't really know where you're located but I'm in South West Florida where it is unbelieveably hot - when I rode today it was 100F with about 90% humidity, so at home I make sure to keep the bike inside my house where it doesn't get too hot. Not a problem here, but the same applies to leaving it in a place where it's really cold.


That's some serious heat. I don't need to worry too much about the heat and humidity here as in the UK we are pretty lucky in that normally it rarely gets too hot or too cold - it just rains a lot! Having said that we have just had one of our hottest days in history at about 37C (98F)!!! But that is a one off!


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## youngoldbloke (28 Jul 2019)

Does charge time increase with use/age of battery? I've never really timed mine other than yesterday, and it is now almost exactly 1 year old (maybe more from manufacture).


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## Solom01 (28 Jul 2019)

No, I don't think charge time increases, but as the battery degrades with age you'll just get a lower amount of total power after a full charge. Depending on how the battery is treated you can get a significant amount of loss in anything from 1 year to 4-5 years. Hopefully since the Panasonic cells used in the Gain are pretty high quality and since I doubt many Gain riders use their bikes like mopeds they should last quite a while.


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## Widge (28 Jul 2019)

Well...... I have now been riding my new D30 for a couple of days or three.....
.....and my first impression are....

Holy Kippers!.........what the hell is going on here!
Air-cooled hydraulic disc brakes? 11 speed 105 with PADDLES instead of 'mouse-ears'? Tubeless ready tyres? A built in motor/battery-system that has an instruction sheet that looks like the circuit diagram for the Chernobyl nuclear reactor? (I'm slightly colour-blind which didn't help). 'Stealth' satin matte paint job that can only be cleaned with Baby-Wipes??

But gradually, all is becoming clear.

I think I like it.

A lot.

However.....I'm not about to dispose of my trusty Triban which I can strip and rebuild with a 2 inch 'Lezyne' multi-tool! It will be my 'winter bike'. What unheard-of luxury?

I am so glad to have found this thread full of 'Gain' aficionados and will write a more considered review once the BeEr has worn off.

Meanwhile-thanks for supporting me in this venture and forgive me for any any daft questions that may arise?

All Best

widge


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## NickWi (29 Jul 2019)

Useful info about battery care from the system manufacturers:-

_"Batteries can reach up to 500 charging cycles and keep the 90% of its capacity if its care and maintenance is adequate. The recharge time of a battery is the process whereby is degraded and that’s why we give you some useful tips to keep your battery’s autonomy to its higher level for longer.
_

_To minimize the wear of its components, the ideal is to maintain the charge of the battery between 20% and 80% of its capacity._
_A charging process from 0 to 100% is considered a charging cycle. Charging 5 times from 80 to 100% equals a full charge cycle._
_If you regularly use high levels of assistance, the discharge of the battery is faster and consequently the useful life of the components will be shortened with respect to using low levels of assistance, where the discharge is made in a lower and more progressive way._
_Use only the original ebikemotion charger supplied with your bike. Its qualities are ideal for lcharging your system._
_If you are not going to use your bicycle in a long period of time, always leave it with a charge level of 40-50%._
_Make a full charge at least every 2 months._
_Do not leave the charger connected to the bicycle continuously, doing so it could accelerate the degradation of the battery life. Ideally, do not leave the charger connected to the bicycle for more than 5 hours._
_Charging our battery from 95% to 100%, is a process that besides to a long wait, it could reduce the battery’s overall capacity in its useful life considerably."_
Origianl:- https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/ebikemotion-battery-cares/

Whilst it doesn't answer the how long does it take question, it does state a maximum of 5hrs on charge time.

Also some extra info about the system in general:- https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/faq/
Section 1.15 about calibrating the battery is interesting. Anyone tried this, is there a benefit and in simple English, know what that actually means?


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## Solom01 (29 Jul 2019)

Hi NickWi, although it's just a guess I am pretty sure that what section 1.15 is talking about is the Battery Management System, which every eBike charger uses to balance out the cells in the battery. In just about every case at the end of charging up to 100% the charger checks to make sure that all the cells are balanced. You can tell this is going on because the last part of charging from 90% to 100% takes longer than one would expect due to balancing. It's a bit of a compromise because charging all the way to 100% is hard on the battery, but the cells have to be balanced occasionally to keep the battery working correctly. It would be nice if the balancing were done at another level, such as 50% charge, but for whatever reason this is the way most chargers work.


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## youngoldbloke (29 Jul 2019)

Thanks NickWi - that seems to be saying (1) best keep you battery level between 20% and 80% - with all that implies for range. Range quoted by Orbea for a full charge, 100km. Best charge level to keep your battery in top condition (ideally 20% - 80% = 60% of full charge) therefore range = 60 km? - and best to use low levels of assistance (3). Or am I misreading this?


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## youngoldbloke (29 Jul 2019)

Does this mean we should normally stop charging before the constant white level shows, other than occasionally?
BTW Thanks for the Mahle links. Much more useful than the original EBM ones.


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## Scaleyback (29 Jul 2019)

That 'battery care' post by NickWi is pretty much verbatim what I was told by Bosch re care of their e-bike batteries. 

The line " _Charging our battery from 95% to 100%, is a process that besides to a long wait, it could reduce the battery’s overall capacity in its useful life considerably."

is a head scratcher ! we will know when the battery has reached 75% after that it's guesswork isn't it ?_


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## Solom01 (29 Jul 2019)

Well if you want to get a more advanced charger I guess you can try something like the Grin Technologies charger, although that will require coming up with a pig-tail to use with our non-standard charging port, but luckily we can also use the app to know exactly what the charge amount is on our bikes and not have to depend on just the LED, you would know exactly when it hits 90% or whatever you want to stop at.


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## Pale Rider (29 Jul 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Thanks NickWi - that seems to be saying (1) best keep you battery level between 20% and 80% - with all that implies for range. Range quoted by Orbea for a full charge, 100km. Best charge level to keep your battery in top condition (ideally 20% - 80% = 60% of full charge) therefore range = 60 km? - and best to use low levels of assistance (3). Or am I misreading this?



Higher assistance levels - fast discharge - thrashes the battery, so service life will be longer if you only ever use lower assistance levels.

Having said that, the system is designed to be used, and it's impossible to sat how much impact using high assistance all time would have.

Probably not much.

It's true fully charging the battery stresses it, but how long the battery sits fully charged is also relevant.

If you could be bothered and have the time, you could do the last few per cent/hour or two of charging directly before you go out.


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## Solom01 (29 Jul 2019)

Depending on your budget it may not be worth while to mess with it, but the amount of degradation is not unknown and it can be very substantial, take a look at the Grind technology site where I think they have some studies. If you drain the battery too deeply and recharge to 100% each time you can literally half the expected life of the battery.

Sorry, I meant Grin Technologies. Darn auto-correct.


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## Widge (29 Jul 2019)

I have shillie-shallied with 'Vaping' in recent years and became much involved with building my own 'mech' systems rather than electronically managed off-the-shelf battery units. as a consequence I became very aware of the 'potential' and dangers and vagaries
of using an unregulated 'raw' lithium battery set-up. No dramas ensued....but certainly an 1850 lithium can go horribly wrong in the wrong hands! I have a sneaking feeling that our eBike batteries might onlybe basically something like 20 1850s connected in series (But I'm often wrong in my ill-informed assumptions!) but even if not, i would trust there are some safety features built in way above my predeliction for 'mech' vapers!?

I am tempted to invest in a common-or-garden mains plug timer that I can set to cut the power supply after a set amount of time so I am not constantly fretting about how long the charger is pumping out its charge (say 3-5hrs) but note that the supplied instruction sheet says NOT to to turn the charger off at the mains before withdrawing the bike socket?,,,I wonder how crucial this protocol is?
Anyone else use a 'plug-timer'?

Just a thought.

Widge


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## Widge (29 Jul 2019)

PS...I have been riding up 1-in-4 (old skool!) hills around South Dartmoor that I have only EVER walked over the crest! Even when I was young and (kind-of) fit with a mountain bike! Can't ask for more than that.....and I still huff and puff a bit which can only be fitness enhancing? Allegedly??

W


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## Storck (30 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> PS...I have been riding up 1-in-4 (old skool!) hills around South Dartmoor that I have only EVER walked over the crest! Even when I was young and (kind-of) fit with a mountain bike! Can't ask for more than that.....and I still huff and puff a bit which can only be fitness enhancing? Allegedly??
> 
> What a lovely area to be riding around (if very hilly) Down the Teign valley, coffee in Dartmouth, suffer on the South Hams - wonderful.


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## Scaleyback (30 Jul 2019)

Well, it has been a couple of weeks now since my bike was taken off the road due to a displaced spoke. 
I will update here as this info may prove useful to someone in the future ( I hope you never need it)
Yes, we could have approximated the spoke tension by testing the other rear wheel spokes but my LBS
https://www.dalesbikecentre.co.uk/pages/the-bike-centre who rent out and maintain lots of different e-bikes
say they often find e-bikes spokes too loose so we agreed to try and do it right !
The Orbea dealer I purchased from is 90 miles from me but I did talk to the shop mechanic, he didn't know the tensions,
couldn't find out and said he would "use his experience"
I contacted Orbea with my warranty info etc I explained my Orbea dealer couldn't help me and guess what ? . . . they referred me to
my Orbea dealer. 
I also phoned a large Orbea dealership in Leeds, they said they would find out the spoke tensions and call me back. Never heard back from them ?
I 'discovered' (cannot remember where from) a contact for the Orbea UK Desk 'LCHOU@orbea.com Tel 01753 851111.
The LC in the email address is Lisa Chou. Lisa immediately replied to my email and asked me to " send me the bar code of the bike (on the underside on the down tube) just so I can get the exact model/year? " 
This we did, and waited, and waited . . . . . Yesterday I called her and she was apologetic and blamed holidays  She said she would find out that day
and call me back. She was true to her word and this is the information she provided:-






"our suppliers who won't provide us with this information" I'm speechless ! a case of the 'tail wagging the dog' ?

So my bike is still not fixed. LBS has the spokes on order and then will have to 'use their experience' to tension the spokes. Yes, I know
we have gone precisely nowhere.
I still love my D30 Gain and yes, this is a minor repair but the aftersales backup in this instance has been appalling. Heaven knows what may be
the experience if one of us has a major problem with the bike ?

Thank you for listening while I got that 'off my chest' I feel a little better now.


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## Storck (30 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Well, it has been a couple of weeks now since my bike was taken off the road due to a displaced spoke.
> I will update here as this info may prove useful to someone in the future ( I hope you never need it)
> Yes, we could have approximated the spoke tension by testing the other rear wheel spokes but my LBS
> https://www.dalesbikecentre.co.uk/pages/the-bike-centre who rent out and maintain lots of different e-bikes
> ...



Can't help thinking, there is a real skill shortage around. Relayed this situation with my LBS. They have been building my wheels since the 60's. Pete's answer? Replace the spoke an true the wheel up "What's the problem"?


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## Scaleyback (30 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> Can't help thinking, there is a real skill shortage around. Relayed this situation with my LBS. They have been building my wheels since the 60's. Pete's answer? Replace the spoke an true the wheel up "What's the problem"?



So, I know nothing about spokes, is Pete saying the tension doesn’t matter ?

P.S

https://www.blog.dtswiss.com/spoke-tension/

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/08/the...nderstanding-the-importance-of-spoke-tension/


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## Southernguns (30 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I am tempted to invest in a common-or-garden mains plug timer that I can set to cut the power supply after a set amount of time so I am not constantly fretting about how long the charger is pumping out its charge (say 3-5hrs) but note that the supplied instruction sheet says NOT to to turn the charger off at the mains before withdrawing the bike socket?,,,I wonder how crucial this protocol is?
> Anyone else use a 'plug-timer'?


I use one. I would rather have it turn off at the mains rather than be constantly on for hours because I have forgotten.


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## Southernguns (30 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I still love my D30 Gain and yes, this is a minor repair but the aftersales backup in this instance has been appalling. Heaven knows what may be
> the experience if one of us has a major problem with the bike ?



I am still awaiting delivery of a new frame to replace my bent rear drop out. I was told it would arrive 2 Sundays ago. I am still waiting!!


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## Storck (30 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> So, I know nothing about spokes, is Pete saying the tension doesn’t matter ?
> 
> No not that. He's making the point, anyone who know's anything about wheel building, dhould be capable of replacing spokes tension and true the wheel by the feel of the other spokes. This guy used to be a mechanic on the old "Milk Race"
> 
> ...


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## Scaleyback (30 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> anyone who know's anything about wheel building, dhould be capable of replacing spokes tension and true the wheel by the feel of the other spokes. This guy used to be a mechanic on the old "Milk Race"



Are all bikeshop mechanics "Wheel builders" or is that a bit specialised ?

Of course if my man uses the tension on the other spokes and they are loose as he suspects (this could explain why I am losing spokes and no-one else seems to be ?) then they will all be wrong . . . . . doh !


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## Storck (30 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Are all bikeshop mechanics "Wheel builders" or is that a bit specialised ?
> 
> Of course if my man uses the tension on the other spokes and they are loose as he suspects (this could explain why I am losing spokes and no-one else seems to be ?) then they will all be wrong . . . . . doh !





Scaleyback said:


> Are all bikeshop mechanics "Wheel builders" or is that a bit specialised ?
> 
> Of course if my man uses the tension on the other spokes and they are loose as he suspects (this could explain why I am losing spokes and no-one else seems to be ?) then they will all be wrong . . . . . doh !



No all mechanics are not wheel builders. That is a speciality they would market separately. A decent wheel builder also uses their ears? They tune the wheel as you would a guitar string. Not only feeling for the tension, listening to it also.


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## Storck (30 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I am still awaiting delivery of a new frame to replace my bent rear drop out. I was told it would arrive 2 Sundays ago. I am still waiting!!



Orbea it would rightly so, appear to be getting a bad rep, for poor after sales service. Both here and elsewhere.


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## Smudge (30 Jul 2019)

Widge said:


> I am tempted to invest in a common-or-garden mains plug timer that I can set to cut the power supply after a set amount of time so I am not constantly fretting about how long the charger is pumping out its charge (say 3-5hrs) but note that the supplied instruction sheet says NOT to to turn the charger off at the mains before withdrawing the bike socket?,,,I wonder how crucial this protocol is?
> Anyone else use a 'plug-timer'?
> 
> Just a thought.
> ...



Both of the chargers for my ebikes will go cold when the batts are charged and the charge light goes green, so i dont think its possible to overcharge most ebike batts. I also have no qualms about switching off at the plug before removing the charger plug from the batt, been doing it for years with no issues to my batts.
However i would never leave the batts on charge unattended, so i wouldn't need to use a plug timer.


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## Southernguns (31 Jul 2019)

Smudge said:


> However i would never leave the batts on charge unattended, so i wouldn't need to use a plug timer.


Likewise, I am always at home when it is on charge. But as I charge the bike in garage and I do not sit next to it for 2-3 hours whilst it charges there is a good chance that I will forget to turn it off after the correct amount of time. Due to 2 house fires with previous electrical items and having had a father in the fire brigade I am a little too OCD about leaving things on longer than is necessary. Using a plug timer gives a little peace of mind.


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## robgul (31 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Likewise, I am always at home when it is on charge. But as I charge the bike in garage and I do not sit next to it for 2-3 hours whilst it charges there is a good chance that I will forget to turn it off after the correct amount of time. Due to 2 house fires with previous electrical items and having had a father in the fire brigade I am a little too OCD about leaving things on longer than is necessary. Using a plug timer gives a little peace of mind.



Or if you have the Hive heating control system you can get WiFi socket outlets and control times/durations etc.

Rob


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## Smudge (31 Jul 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Likewise, I am always at home when it is on charge. But as I charge the bike in garage and I do not sit next to it for 2-3 hours whilst it charges there is a good chance that I will forget to turn it off after the correct amount of time. Due to 2 house fires with previous electrical items and having had a father in the fire brigade I am a little too OCD about leaving things on longer than is necessary. Using a plug timer gives a little peace of mind.



Yeah, i see your point in that situation. I have to charge my batts in the house.
Cant see any reason not to use the plug timer, i certainly wouldn't worry about the charger being switched off at the plug in that situation. I cant think of any reason why they would say you shouldn't do that.


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## Scaleyback (31 Jul 2019)

Here’s hoping the resistance to water ingress on the Gain is as good as people say ? My Gain is in the Dales bike centre at Grinton. Just been watching BBC news on the floods in Swaledale and the reporter is standing outside the bike centre.


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## Storck (31 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Here’s hoping the resistance to water ingress on the Gain is as good as people say ? My Gain is in the Dales bike centre at Grinton. Just been watching BBC news on the floods in Swaledale and the reporter is standing outside the bike centre.



Oh no. Hope it's OK. Otherwise insurance job.


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## Scaleyback (31 Jul 2019)

Storck said:


> Oh no. Hope it's OK. Otherwise insurance job.



Thanks 'Storck'
Well, I haven't checked and I won't for some time. I'm sure the folks over there have a lot more to worry about than my bike.
Flooding is always horrible, the 'crap' (literally) that it brings with it is awful. Heartbreaking when you know the folks affected.


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## Storck (31 Jul 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Thanks 'Storck'
> Well, I haven't checked and I won't for some time. I'm sure the folks over there have a lot more to worry about than my bike.
> Flooding is always horrible, the 'crap' (literally) that it brings with it is awful. Heartbreaking when you know the folks affected.



As usual, here on the East Coast we have avoided the worst of the weather. Only a few spots of rain, not adding up to a great deal, despite the forecast for thunder storms.


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## Storck (1 Aug 2019)

Another Ebikemotion update (for anyone who wants to risk it?)


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## Solom01 (1 Aug 2019)

Since I've basically replaced the app with a Garmin, I went ahead and gave it a try with my OnePlus 6 running Pie. It seems to be working now and has corrected the problem downloading maps, so if you have a map subscription it now allows you to download them again without saying that there's a problem contacting the map provider. I wonder when this app will come out of beta status?


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## Storck (1 Aug 2019)

Who would purchase a bespoke GPS unit (like Garmin etc) if Ebikemotion brought one out?


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## Southernguns (1 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Since I've basically replaced the app with a Garmin, I went ahead and gave it a try with my OnePlus 6 running Pie. It seems to be working now and has corrected the problem downloading maps, so if you have a map subscription it now allows you to download them again without saying that there's a problem contacting the map provider. I wonder when this app will come out of beta status?


I might risk upgrading my pie phone then ;-)


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## youngoldbloke (2 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Who would purchase a bespoke GPS unit (like Garmin etc) if Ebikemotion brought one out?


No. I find the app very useful for monitoring the bike's e-performance, and logging rides on the dashboard, but otherwise I've only ever used basic bike computers for speed/distance. For navigation I use maps and route sheets, often computer generated - I'm not a total luddite. On group rides I'm often surprised at just how wrong Garmin guided riders can be.


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## areyouactuallymoving (2 Aug 2019)

Has anyone successfully managed to sync the ebikemotion app with Strava?


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## Storck (2 Aug 2019)

areyouactuallymoving said:


> Has anyone successfully managed to sync the ebikemotion app with Strava?



That's a good question.


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## Southernguns (2 Aug 2019)

Sorry but I have not tried as I have a garmin and the Komoot app that I prefer to use and both sync with Strava.


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## areyouactuallymoving (3 Aug 2019)

I've got komoot too, but I didn't think it synced with Strava.


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## Southernguns (3 Aug 2019)

My bad - I didn't make it clear. Komoot connects to Garmin Connect which in turn connects with Strava. When I return from a ride it syncs to my Garmin then uploads to Strava.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Another Ebikemotion update (for anyone who wants to risk it?)


Risked it, regretted it. First longish ride since updates, app lost connection with bike numerous times, unable to save what bits it had monitored. I wish they'd sort it out. One step forward, two steps back …. it had been behaving quite well for me.


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## Scaleyback (3 Aug 2019)

I don’t get Strava.
What do they say ? “ If it’s not on Strava it didn’t happen “
That’s self-serving marketing bulls**t isn’t it ?
All my rides are saved on Garmin connect, why would I need Strava ?
It’s a bit like Facebook isn’t it, where you feel the need to share the minutia of your life with the
World ? i.e I rode my bike today for 15.2 miles and it took 1hr 3 mins, I beat my PB by 27 secs etc etc


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## Solom01 (3 Aug 2019)

I'm really sorry, I feel guilty. It works well for me, but on the other hand because of the flakiness of the app I only use it to adjust power levels and to see what the exact charge amount is, I use a Garmin for actual ride monitoring. It does allow me to download maps which the old version didn't. The cadence measurement is still trash, even if I half the amount it shows me spinning at 125 rpm - not even close.


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## Storck (3 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I'm really sorry, I feel guilty. It works well for me, but on the other hand because of the flakiness of the app I only use it to adjust power levels and to see what the exact charge amount is, I use a Garmin for actual ride monitoring. It does allow me to download maps which the old version didn't. The cadence measurement is still trash, even if I half the amount it shows me spinning at 125 rpm - not even close.



Yeah, all correct in what you write. They should now just keep it simple. Most folks have stand-alone GPS units, stop trying to cover every base, just provide a reliable connect for syncing to the bike.


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## Southernguns (3 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Risked it, regretted it. First longish ride since updates, app lost connection with bike numerous times, unable to save what bits it had monitored. I wish they'd sort it out. One step forward, two steps back …. it had been behaving quite well for me.


Mmmm, maybe I wont, update...to me...to you...!


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## NickWi (6 Aug 2019)

Extra Battery, or not as the case may be. Has anyone got one of the new Range Extender batteries yet?

I've just been reading up about the above ( https://www.orbea.com/downloads/products/manual_range_extender_EN.pdf ) and it looks like the battery is a glorified power bank rather than an extra battery, (splitting hairs I know, but there is a difference).

It basically says the Range Extender can't supply enough current to power the motor in its own right and it's job is to just keep the main battery topped up. Fair enough, however the blurb then goes on to say that it can only supply at 2A, the motor can draw up to 9A and therefore there might be times when it can't keep up with the power drain after a period of intensive use the battery may flatten faster than it can be topped up. I presume on rolling terrain the power loss on the ups would be replenished by the top up on the downs, coasting and low power sections, but it does raise a bit of a conern if you're getting to the end of the your ride, the main battery is into the red and you're faced with long uphill slog or into a headwind; both situations where you're likely to be using the higher power settings. It is going to die on you just when you really need it?

Maybe I'm wrong, just being over critical and in practice it'll work seamlessly without any drama, but it'll be interesting to hear from anyone who's got one.

As a separate question, if it is just a glorified power bank (spec 208.8W/h (5.8A) / 36V / Maximum discharge ratio 1.9A), could you use a regular, albeit heavy duty power bank instead? I'm no electical engineer, but I'd be interested to hear from those with a better knowledge of these things than me. At £550 for the genuine artice, that's an expensive power bank. Allowing for buying and power bank & connector and paying for a cable to be made, I'm guessing a specialist could do it a lot cheaper.


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## youngoldbloke (6 Aug 2019)

Having read the above I'm even less likely than I was to be spending over £500 on the range extender. More like a ride-time extender if you find yourself having to wait for the battery to be topped up while your chums disappear over the hill.


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## Solom01 (6 Aug 2019)

I'm interested in reading a review on this. For most ebikes that people tend to ride like mopeds all the time it would never work, but for the way most of us ride our Gains using just the lower level (maybe the mid level occasionally) power it may be a good way of keeping the battery topped off in case you wanted to take a longer 100 mile tour. For what it's worth (which isn't much) I've notice that on identical 8 mile rides between my Gain and my other ebike my heart rate tends to be at about 135 or so on the Gain and only 90 or so on my other bike, which is exactly what I was looking for - getting more exercise and a better cycling experience while still having a get out of jail free card if I get too tired out.


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## Scaleyback (6 Aug 2019)

Yikes ! £550.00 and 1.7kg of extra weight. Awfully glad I have no need (or desire) for one of these.


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## Storck (7 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Yikes ! £550.00 and 1.7kg of extra weight. Awfully glad I have no need (or desire) for one of these.



Especially when, on flattish roads it's not to difficult to pedal the Gain, even at a decent pace.


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## Storck (7 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I'm interested in reading a review on this. For most ebikes that people tend to ride like mopeds all the time it would never work, but for the way most of us ride our Gains using just the lower level (maybe the mid level occasionally) power it may be a good way of keeping the battery topped off in case you wanted to take a longer 100 mile tour. For what it's worth (which isn't much) I've notice that on identical 8 mile rides between my Gain and my other ebike my heart rate tends to be at about 135 or so on the Gain and only 90 or so on my other bike, which is exactly what I was looking for - getting more exercise and a better cycling experience while still having a get out of jail free card if I get too tired out.



I must be doing it wrong Sol? My HR is far less when riding the Gain, as opposed to one of my "normal" bikes.


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## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> I must be doing it wrong Sol? My HR is far less when riding the Gain, as opposed to one of my "normal" bikes.



My wife isnt puffing and blowing when riding her ebike, although she is much faster than her previous 11 mph average speed


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## Storck (7 Aug 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> My wife isnt puffing and blowing when riding her ebike, although she is much faster than her previous 11 mph average speed



More breath to give you an earful then?


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## Solom01 (7 Aug 2019)

Storck, I don't think you can be doing it wrong, but in the US the Gains have motor assist up to 20 or so mph and not 15.5, so maybe that makes a difference? I'm also purposely keeping the gearing at a point where I have to use some serious power to pedal - and trying to keep my speed up pretty high. I am purposely trying to get as much exercise as I can and using the battery as little as possible. I can't really do that with my other ebike since it's a single speed. I have no doubt that I'll end up going into cardiac arrest if I keep this up - but at least I'll look better in the coffin, right?


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## CXRAndy (7 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> More breath to give you an earful then?



Joking, Im having to draft to keep up, she is in command

always!


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## Storck (7 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Storck, I don't think you can be doing it wrong, but in the US the Gains have motor assist up to 20 or so mph and not 15.5, so maybe that makes a difference? I'm also purposely keeping the gearing at a point where I have to use some serious power to pedal - and trying to keep my speed up pretty high. I am purposely trying to get as much exercise as I can and using the battery as little as possible. I can't really do that with my other ebike since it's a single speed. I have no doubt that I'll end up going into cardiac arrest if I keep this up - but at least I'll look better in the coffin, right?



Good point Sol, I do use my Gain for relaxation, almost in cruise control during this wonderful summer we are experiencing. Best way though Sol to loose weight? Is ride at level 1- 2 (fat burning mode) up to 65% of your max HR. You should be able to ride and hold a conversation at the same time. It does work. Always started training for next season, by riding like this from October through to Feb. Kept off those Xmas pounds.


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## Widge (7 Aug 2019)

Hi all,
I might be coming at this from a different angle.......
but.....
I bought my new Gain specifically to help me get back on the road after illness-so have no qualms about using the full range of assistance as I feel the need at the moment. This is why I bought it-but also with an eye toward gradually regaining and/or enhancing my fitness levels over time. I wanted a bike that still responded to effort, and not just a 'sit and go' electric bike. In the 10 days or so I've had it, it is so far fulfilling this brief admirably!
I would like to imagine that, given time, I might actually rely on the 'assist' aspect less and less-in fact I would be pleased to return to my 'old-skool' purely mechanical road bike for the odd ride.

So far I have relished the ability to ride everywhere I could with my old bike before my health plummeted. Living in Hilly South Devon I am using mostly the mid setting ('orange) and the ultra setting (red) to crest some of the 1 in 4 hills. On the flat (and clearly downhill) I am mostly exceeding the 15mph cut off so hope I am using the bike as it was intended? I am not venturing for more than 30miles or so per run at the moment so the ins and outs of the 'battery extender' are not yet an issue for me...but I too am interested in any other peoples experience with it.

I have to say...apart from one or two caveats...I am very pleased with it so far. (And my trusty 'customised' (!) Triban 3 isn't far away!!)

It's got me up and at it again¬

Best
Widge


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## youngoldbloke (7 Aug 2019)

Widge said:


> Hi all,
> I might be coming at this from a different angle.......
> but.....
> I bought my new Gain initially to help me get back on the road after illness-so have no qualms about using the full range of assistance as I feel the need at the moment. This is why I bought it-but also with an eye toward gradually regaining and/or enhancing my fitness levels over time. I wanted a bike that still responded to effort, and not just a 'sit and go' electric bike. In the 10 days or so I've had it, it is so far fulfilling this brief admirably!
> ...


I'm in a similar position to you Widge. I bought the Gain for health reasons. IMO you are certainly using the bike as intended. I find that the assistance levels give me the 'just enough' assistance to replace my lost muscle strength, but still allow me to get a good workout. Longest ride so far for me in the region of 40 miles, and plenty of battery left. I also hope that one day I'll be able to return to my leg-power only bikes, though I realise that may be quite unrealistic.


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## NickWi (7 Aug 2019)

Same story with me and I'd go so far as to say riding my Gain has not only improved my overall fitness but made riding any of my other (traditionally powered) bikes easier than it was say 18months ago. I think the single biggest reason for this is that I now go out and enjoy the riding whereas before it was always a bit of a slog, and because I enjoy it more, I do more of it.

Smiles = Miles = Fitter Me = I Enjoy it more = Smiles etc etc.

I know some of the naysayers will say, well if you got of your arse and rode you're old bike more you'd have got to that point, and I dare say that probably is true, but I'm no youngster, throw in with work, looking after aged parents and the rest of life troubles and my leisure time is limited. My Gain has allowed me to make the most of it what free time I do have, and because it's a pleasure now, I ride more more which helps with stress and the old blood pressure. If that's not a win win situation I don't know what is.


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## Scaleyback (7 Aug 2019)

Someone on the cyclingUK forum has taken delivery of the ‘range extender’ battery. Wow ! Pigs do indeed fly.


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## Solom01 (7 Aug 2019)

I think you all are using the Gain exactly as it was meant to be used. My circumstances are a little bit different in that I've had health problems for a while and had been using another ebike which although not a beast by any stretch of the imagination has a slightly bigger battery and being a single speed I could never get the right cadence for use on our absolutely flat terrain - so I found myself getting less and less exercise from cycling. With the Gain I'm trying to beat myself up a bit and trying to use the battery as a back-up in case I push myself too hard. The one thing I would change is a bit strange, I wish the power cut-off was at 15.5 and not 20-21. If you have the assistance on you actually have to go pretty darn fast before the power cuts off. I wonder if there is some way too change the power assistance cut off to the Euro level? Maybe a dealer can do it with the dealer app?


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## Storck (7 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I think you all are using the Gain exactly as it was meant to be used. My circumstances are a little bit different in that I've had health problems for a while and had been using another ebike which although not a beast by any stretch of the imagination has a slightly bigger battery and being a single speed I could never get the right cadence for use on our absolutely flat terrain - so I found myself getting less and less exercise from cycling. With the Gain I'm trying to beat myself up a bit and trying to use the battery as a back-up in case I push myself too hard. The one thing I would change is a bit strange, I wish the power cut-off was at 15.5 and not 20-21. If you have the assistance on you actually have to go pretty darn fast before the power cuts off. I wonder if there is some way too change the power assistance cut off to the Euro level? Maybe a dealer can do it with the dealer app?



I think you would find plenty of folk this side of the pond, willing to swap with you Sol.


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## Widge (7 Aug 2019)

Yup.......15.5 mph still gives you a pukka workout......the bike is well specced to function like a 'real' road-bike once you've got it rolling......but there is no denying the 'need-for-speed' ,

personally I have no issue with the 15mph euro cut-off, cruising effortlessly at 20 is surely just ungentlemanly?

Yours deludely

W


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## robgul (8 Aug 2019)

Widge said:


> Yup.......15.5 mph still gives you a pukka workout......the bike is well specced to function like a 'real' road-bike once you've got it rolling......but there is no denying the 'need-for-speed' ,
> 
> personally I have no issue with the 15mph euro cut-off, cruising effortlessly at 20 is surely just ungentlemanly?
> 
> ...



Exactly - mine was bought for age/fitness/keep up on the club run purposes and has turned out to be perfect . ... I probably ride about 70/75% without the motor and switch on for steep hills or if I'm tired on th way home. Several other club members are in negotiations to buy an e road/touring bike.

Rob


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## youngoldbloke (8 Aug 2019)

We are all different - I would very much welcome a higher cut off - 18 mph maybe. (As I've said before) on rolling terrain it is quite usual for even leisure groups to exceed 15.5mph, (not average speed) and my legs soon tire trying to keep (what is for me) a very heavy road bike above the cut off, over longer stretches. I'm not asking for a free ride. I don't want a moped. I don't want an ugly, even heavier e-mtb, just a little more assistance.


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## Storck (8 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> We are all different - I would very much welcome a higher cut off - 18 mph maybe. (As I've said before) on rolling terrain it is quite usual for even leisure groups to exceed 15.5mph, (not average speed) and my legs soon tire trying to keep (what is for me) a very heavy road bike above the cut off, over longer stretches. I'm not asking for a free ride. I don't want a moped. I don't want an ugly, even heavier e-mtb, just a little more assistance.



Especially plugging away into a wind-on-the-nose day.


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## Solom01 (8 Aug 2019)

What would be really cool would be if the app could be changed so that the user could determine the cut-off speed so in the US and Canada one could pick anywhere from 0-20mph for each level and in the UK and EU 0-15.5 (it would be great if they would allow up to 20 there but I'm assuming it would create all sorts of legal issues). Considering that the basics of the app still aren't working too well I doubt this will ever happen, but I guess I can dream.


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## Storck (8 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> What would be really cool would be if the app could be changed so that the user could determine the cut-off speed so in the US and Canada one could pick anywhere from 0-20mph for each level and in the UK and EU 0-15.5 (it would be great if they would allow up to 20 there but I'm assuming it would create all sorts of legal issues). Considering that the basics of the app still aren't working too well I doubt this will ever happen, but I guess I can dream.



Suggest it to them Sol, who knows? After Brexit (if it ever happens?) We could repeal the legislation for a higher limit?


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## Solom01 (8 Aug 2019)

I will...who knows, maybe if I ask nicely in Spanish they'll listen? I never understood why the limit was set at 15.5, since most road cyclist easily ride faster on non ebikes, but as an American there's no way am I getting into the Brexit thing - we've got enough problems here without antagonizing one of the last civilized countries left on earth.


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## Storck (8 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I will...who knows, maybe if I ask nicely in Spanish they'll listen? I never understood why the limit was set at 15.5, since most road cyclist easily ride faster on non ebikes, but as an American there's no way am I getting into the Brexit thing - we've got enough problems here without antagonizing one of the last civilized countries left on earth.



Easy answer as to why? Bloody politicians in the cesspool HQ in Brussels. The kind of people who want to stop kids climbing and playing, as it's deemed dangerous or elitist.


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## Southernguns (9 Aug 2019)

Finally!!! Whoop, whoop - After a month of waiting I have my Gain D30 back! And with a new frame - the 2020 model apparently - all black rather than black and grey. No bent drop outs and everything seems to work. Now to get out and enjoy the sunny weather... ...oh, we have a weekend of thunderstorms, and gale force winds!! Ggggrrrrrrrr!!!


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## Scaleyback (9 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Finally!!! Whoop, whoop - After a month of waiting I have my Gain D30 back! !



Good for you, can your dealer get spokes for the D30 ?


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## Storck (9 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Finally!!! Whoop, whoop - After a month of waiting I have my Gain D30 back! And with a new frame - the 2020 model apparently - all black rather than black and grey. No bent drop outs and everything seems to work. Now to get out and enjoy the sunny weather... ...oh, we have a weekend of thunderstorms, and gale force winds!! Ggggrrrrrrrr!!!



Indian summer in the offering. Saying all through October into Nov.


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## Southernguns (9 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Good for you, can your dealer get spokes for the D30 ?


They do wheels and spokes, but from my experience I would be reluctant to recommend them if you want a quick result!


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## Southernguns (9 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Indian summer in the offering. Saying all through October into Nov.


That is promising. I am itching to get back out on it! Currently sat in the conservatory looking at the bike whilst listening to the rain drumming on the roof


----------



## areyouactuallymoving (9 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I don’t get Strava.
> What do they say ? “ If it’s not on Strava it didn’t happen “
> That’s self-serving marketing bulls**t isn’t it ?
> All my rides are saved on Garmin connect, why would I need Strava ?
> ...



I use Strava purely for my own information, all my rides are private and never shared with anyone by any method. I like the fact that I can easily compare times over segments on routes that I do regularly (not easy on most of the other apps around). It helps me to see if I am getting faster and therefore, hopefully, fitter. It motivates me and so is useful to me.


----------



## Zofo (9 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Suggest it to them Sol, who knows? After Brexit (if it ever happens?) We could repeal the legislation for a higher limit?


Now that’s a bloody good point .....


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## Zofo (9 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Someone on the cyclingUK forum has taken delivery of the ‘range extender’ battery. Wow ! Pigs do indeed fly.


For £549 ! No chance...I can get a good 55 miles out of mine with approx 1000 ft climbing per hour on rolling terrain, and to be honest that’s far enough for me these days .


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## Storck (9 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> That is promising. I am itching to get back out on it! Currently sat in the conservatory looking at the bike whilst listening to the rain drumming on the roof



Got over 200 miles in since last Sunday, raining here also today bit 25c and very humid. Was sweating - PLAYING SNOOKER.


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## Southernguns (9 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Got over 200 miles in since last Sunday, raining here also today bit 25c and very humid. Was sweating - PLAYING SNOOKER.


Now I'm jealous. Not only do you have it warmer than us here in the SW, but you are also able to cycle more than me and play snooker! I sat and watched a mate play pool yesterday whist he stuffed me 16 games to 2! And I'm not that bad a player - he was just on fire.


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## Storck (9 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Now I'm jealous. Not only do you have it warmer than us here in the SW, but you are also able to cycle more than me and play snooker! I sat and watched a mate play pool yesterday whist he stuffed me 16 games to 2! And I'm not that bad a player - he was just on fire.



Well it does help if like me you have your own table. I actually have a dedicated snooker - bike room. Got a raised sitting area, own toilet and kitchen. All separate from the house. I often sleep in there. Don't have to put up with Emmerdale followed by East Enders then Coronation St. (did I get them in the correct viewing order?) Sanctuary doesn't begin to describe it. BTW played against one of your fellow South Westerners awhile ago? The pro Milkins (The Milkman) Was leading by a good few points, missed blue to middle, opened up remaining reds. He destroyed me then. Still I know I'm better then him on a bike.


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## Scaleyback (10 Aug 2019)

Tredz have a 2019 Gain D30 (L) for £2,199, that’s £400.00 under list price !

I thought about buying it and cannibalising it for the spokes but I had a call yesterday saying mine is fixed ‘ hallelujah ‘ hopefully I will collect today ?


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## Storck (10 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Tredz have a 2019 Gain D30 (L) for £2,199, that’s £400.00 under list price !
> 
> I thought about buying it and cannibalising it for the spokes but I had a call yesterday saying mine is fixed ‘ hallelujah ‘ hopefully I will collect today ?



Look out for the gusting wind today Scaley.


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## Scaleyback (10 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Look out for the gusting wind today Scaley.



I have to collect by car Storck, After the terrible flooding and damage to the road infrastructure around here, See here:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...08l9Rs-rhqiRwEAOezbSE8wCZIy_HkuaSAGovZXvwHLmc

My bike is in the Dales Bike centre in Grinton ! the main route is the B6270, shown in the video clip. So now we have a large detour over narrow high moor roads
that in the right conditions is a lovely arduous ride but not today with expected 40+ winds forecast.


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## Storck (10 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I have to collect by car Storck, After the terrible flooding and damage to the road infrastructure around here, See here:-
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...08l9Rs-rhqiRwEAOezbSE8wCZIy_HkuaSAGovZXvwHLmc
> 
> My bike is in the Dales Bike centre in Grinton ! the main route is the B6270, shown in the video clip. So now we have a large detour over narrow high moor roads
> that in the right conditions is a lovely arduous ride but not today with expected 40+ winds forecast.



I've decided to settle down and watch Hull City v Reading. Safe journey.


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## Southernguns (11 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Well it does help if like me you have your own table. I actually have a dedicated snooker - bike room. Got a raised sitting area, own toilet and kitchen. All separate from the house. I often sleep in there. Don't have to put up with Emmerdale followed by East Enders then Coronation St. (did I get them in the correct viewing order?) Sanctuary doesn't begin to describe it. BTW played against one of your fellow South Westerners awhile ago? The pro Milkins (The Milkman) Was leading by a good few points, missed blue to middle, opened up remaining reds. He destroyed me then. Still I know I'm better then him on a bike.



Sounds like the perfect setup!! I will keeping dreaming :-D. Did Milkins he have The Wurzels playing in backgound? Snooker is impossibly hard. I tip my hat to anyone that can play to even a half decent standard. My highest break is something like 18 - shocking! I will stick to pool as at least I have some success with potting the balls and holding position.


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## Southernguns (11 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I have to collect by car Storck, After the terrible flooding and damage to the road infrastructure around here, See here:-
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...08l9Rs-rhqiRwEAOezbSE8wCZIy_HkuaSAGovZXvwHLmc
> 
> Wow - that's worse than the Tour De France!


----------



## Storck (11 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Sounds like the perfect setup!! I will keeping dreaming :-D. Did Milkins he have The Wurzels playing in backgound? Snooker is impossibly hard. I tip my hat to anyone that can play to even a half decent standard. My highest break is something like 18 - shocking! I will stick to pool as at least I have some success with potting the balls and holding position.



"I am a cider drinker) Ha Ha, no played him at Northern Snooker Centre in Leeds. Was a pro-am event, managed to cover my expenses at least. Lovely man he is. Very delicate touch for such a big man, he can generate an awesome amount of cue power.


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## Scaleyback (12 Aug 2019)

Well, I got my D30 Gain back on saturday. (It survived the Bike centre flooding)
Who would have thought getting two rear spokes replaced would take my bike off the road for close to a month ?

In the meantime I have ridden approx 350 miles on my non-assisted road bike. Getting back on the Gain two things are glaringly obvious ? the 16kg (on the road) weight (my other bike is 8.5kg OTR) and the sheer comfort of the 35c/38c tyres on the Gain. 

My LBS (who I have known and trusted for years) was a little 'perturbed' by the build quality of the rear wheel with varying spoke tensions and damaged rim tape.

The aftersales support from Orbea has been appalling ! My LBS had to resort to getting custom made spokes and 'we' were unable to find out recommended
spoke tensions for the rear wheel.

To recap for 'our new readers' the rear spokes on the Gain are anything but standard. Much shorter due to the hub motor, and the drive side and non-drive side spokes are different lengths.

We tried everyone to find the relevant info. The original dealer, who I didn't take the bike to for warranty because they are 90 miles away. Orbea direct. who initially didn't reply, then after two week referred me back to my Orbea dealer and when I persisted finally said

" We don't have an exact measurement for the tension on these wheels as they are made and serviced by our suppliers who won't provide us with this information " 

I have somehow managed to remain remarkably sanguine throughout this, due in no small part to having an alternative bike to ride. If I had been ' off the road '
for a month I would have been spitting blood.

I still love my Gain but based on this experience, and what I read about Orbea aftersales from here and elsewhere I would now probably purchase the recent Boardman 8.9E https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2327-adv-8.9e.html. I have owned two Boardmans previously and they were great bikes and aftersales was very good.

Live and learn, as the saying goes.


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## Storck (12 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Well, I got my D30 Gain back on saturday. (It survived the Bike centre flooding)
> Who would have thought getting two rear spokes replaced would take my bike off the road for close to a month ?
> 
> In the meantime I have ridden approx 350 miles on my non-assisted road bike. Getting back on the Gain two things are glaringly obvious ? the 16kg (on the road) weight (my other bike is 8.5kg OTR) and the sheer comfort of the 35c/38c tyres on the Gain.
> ...



Glad your back on the road, two things?

Do you have Magic wheels on? I always have found them very helpful.

Secondly, with your Boardmans, did you purchase from Halfords and have them service bikes?


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## Scaleyback (12 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Glad your back on the road, two things?
> 
> Do you have Magic wheels on? I always have found them very helpful.
> 
> Secondly, with your Boardmans, did you purchase from Halfords and have them service bikes?



Magic wheels ?

Yes, both my Boardmans were purchased from Halfords (10% discount for my British Cycling membership) and no, I did not
have them serviced there but by the same person who has just 'fettled' my Gain.


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## Storck (12 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Magic wheels ?
> 
> Yes, both my Boardmans were purchased from Halfords (10% discount for my British Cycling membership) and no, I did not
> have them serviced there but by the same person who has just 'fettled' my Gain.



Sorry spell check "Mavic"


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## Scaleyback (12 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> Sorry spell check "Mavic"



No Storck, to the best of my knowledge the Mavic wheels are only on the 'M' range i.e carbon frames and they begin at the M30 @ £3,499.00.

The lower spec bikes have the Ready GR wheels ? I have seen it suggested they are made in China for Orbea hence the phrase " We don't have an exact measurement for the tension on these wheels as they are made and serviced by our suppliers who won't provide us with this information "

Chinese firms are apparently very secretive due to potential copying.


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## Storck (12 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> No Storck, to the best of my knowledge the Mavic wheels are only on the 'M' range i.e carbon frames and they begin at the M30 @ £3,499.00.
> 
> The lower spec bikes have the Ready GR wheels ? I have seen it suggested they are made in China for Orbea hence the phrase " We don't have an exact measurement for the tension on these wheels as they are made and serviced by our suppliers who won't provide us with this information "
> 
> Chinese firms are apparently very secretive due to potential copying.



Bloody hell, the Chinese are sentitive about copyright!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Southernguns (13 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Getting back on the Gain two things are glaringly obvious ? the 16kg (on the road) weight (my other bike is 8.5kg OTR)


Even with the electric assist? 

I sympathise with you Scaley - It has been a bit of a nightmare for you. It sounds like you have fallen out of love with the D30? I really fancied the Ribble CGR but you cannot get them for love nor money. They keep pushing the delivery date back, and back, and back a month at a time. It was an April delivery when I started looking in March. It is now a mid August delivery date. And the chances of getting one even then are slim as they will need to fulfil so many back orders first.


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## Scaleyback (13 Aug 2019)

‘ *Southernguns’ 
*
My reference to the weight is more about the day to day handling of the bike than riding it ! My Gain is stored/locked on a ‘bike hanger’ mounted inside on the garage wall. Lifting it to head height is a good workout Plus mounting it on a bike rack for cleaning/maintenance etc.


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## Storck (13 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> ‘ *Southernguns’
> *
> My reference to the weight is more about the day to day handling of the bike than riding it ! My Gain is stored/locked on a ‘bike hanger’ mounted inside on the garage wall. Lifting it to head height is a good workout Plus mounting it on a bike rack for cleaning/maintenance etc.



That's a weight workout in it self Scaley. Just can't get used to the difference compared to my "normal" bikes, when taking it out into the courtyard.


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## Scaleyback (13 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Even with the electric assist?
> 
> I sympathise with you Scaley - It has been a bit of a nightmare for you. It sounds like you have fallen out of love with the D30? .



Oops ! Sorry Southernguns, I forgot to answer this question you posed. 
No, as I said in my post “ I still love my Gain “ but the poor aftersales service
convinces me Orbea do not deserve me as a customer. Therefore, I would not buy again. I would go elsewhere. How else do we ‘tell’ the OEM that they are failing ? Sure anyone/everyone makes mistakes but we have a breaking point.


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## Southernguns (13 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Oops ! Sorry Southernguns, I forgot to answer this question you posed.
> No, as I said in my post “ I still love my Gain “ but the poor aftersales service
> convinces me Orbea do not deserve me as a customer. Therefore, I would not buy again. I would go elsewhere. How else do we ‘tell’ the OEM that they are failing ? Sure anyone/everyone makes mistakes but we have a breaking point.


Yeah, I was beginning to feel the same, but then Orbea came up with a brand new frame - no questions asked. Most of the delays I experienced were with the LBS. Having said that, there are many reports online about Orbea's poor after sales service. I read many before I purchased which is why I went to a shop rather than buying online - that way I had a point of contact to return to. Had the Ribble been available or I had known about the Boardman then I probably would have gone with either of those. Fingers crossed that that is the end of our issues.


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## Scaleyback (14 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Had the Ribble been available or I had known about the Boardman then I probably would have gone with either of those



Well, the Boardman 8.9E has only recently been released of course. 
I do like the concept of the Fazua Evation drive system with the clip in/out battery. Easier for charging and far less attractive to potential thieves if you have your battery with you in the cafe
There are downsides to the Boardman of course. It seems the Fazua system is about 1 kg heavier than the Orbea ebikemotion drive and I believe the downtube with battery is less ‘svelte’ than the Gain.


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## youngoldbloke (14 Aug 2019)

Collected my Gain exactly 1 year ago today. Almost 2000 miles - not as many as I'd hoped, but a lot more than I'd have ridden without it. It's performed exactly as I'd hoped. No problems - other than annoying punctures early on caused by the badly factory fitted rim tape. No broken spokes, as reported by Scaley and others, just one loose spoke on the front wheel, easily corrected. My biggest issues have been with the app ….. it's still not completely reliable, and was infuriating in the early days, and EBM customer services weren't helpful. The control through the Iwoc button could be improved too - having to scroll through higher assistance levels to get back to no or a lower level is not a satisfactory system. Otherwise - no complaints.
Would I buy another? I think so - probably carbon framed (not available when I ordered mine). I'd look at the Fazua powered bikes too, I'm very taken by the Cube. They do have the big advantage of battery/motor removal, which would allow me to carry the bike on top of a car - no way can I get my Gain on the Thule roof carrier! However as Scaley points out the system is heavier, and the Fazua bikes are generally heavier than the EBM ones. The wheelset can be changed easily too, as on an unassisted bike. I'd also look at the 'gravel' 1 x 11 variations that are appearing.


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## Scaleyback (14 Aug 2019)

Nice summary Peter. 
It is an excellent bike and as we are 'early adopters' I suppose we have to except teething troubles.
As I said earlier everyone makes mistakes but I tend to judge a company/retailer by how they correct these errors and react to their
customers concerns. In my case this has been dreadful with basic failure to answer emails even when including all warranty information.

So Cube are also using the Fazua system are they ? I may try one of these systems next ? however at knocking on 73 my next vehicle may be
a wheeled walking aid. 
The Boardman 8.9E I was referencing has the SRAM 1 x 11 groupset which I was unwilling to purchase but does get universal praise whenever
I read about it.
I cannot imagine trying to put the Gain on a roof mounted rack ! have you a tow bar on your vehicle ? I have a Thule towbar mounted rack (2 bikes)
It is excellent and even folds down to allow hatchback rear to open and close.


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## Storck (14 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Nice summary Peter.
> It is a excellent bike and as we are 'early adopters' I suppose we have to except teething troubles.
> As I said earlier everyone makes mistakes but I tend to judge a company/retailer by how they correct these errors and react to their
> customers concerns. In my case this has been dreadful with basic failure to answer emails even when including all warranty information.
> ...



No chance of going on the roof, even with my 25lb Gain. Was going to change my RAV4 for small BMW. Now keeping it, I can slide bike in easy, especially with having no lip. My Gain is living up to expectation, still intending to purchase a "D" model for winter and some easy off road ventures (ex rail tracks etc) It still puts a smile on my face, especially when the wind is up. Thought originally the 15mph limit maybe a deal breaker? Turned out not so, I actually ride the Gain slower almost in cruise mode, taking in the world. Sod it, still gonna get the Beemer. I'm on borrowed time as it is.


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## youngoldbloke (14 Aug 2019)

Here is the Cube Agree C62 Hybrid - prettier in the flesh. I usually carry my Gain inside my Peugeot 5008, upright using a fork mount, front wheel off, with just one of the rear seats folded. It's only when making long family trips that I need to carry a bike outside, as a wheelchair. people and luggage leave little space inside. I've bought a Saris Bones single carrier that might work with the Gain, wheels removed, I've not tried it as yet, as in the past I usually carried one of my bikes on the roof. However I'm not all that happy about transporting the Gain outside on a long journey in rain like we've had recently - anyone any experience of this?


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## Scaleyback (14 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> However I'm not all that happy about transporting the Gain outside on a long journey in rain like we've had recently - anyone any experience of this?



I picked my Gain up a week ago in pretty bad weather and drove home with it on my rear towbar mounted rack. I admit to a certain anxiety but I had no choice really. About a 20 mile journey due to detours because of roads washed away and bridges damaged. It rained all the way and the roads were very bad, impossible to not drive through big puddles etc. As soon as I got home I dried off the bike then turned it upside down and l left it for a while resting on handlebars and seat. My thinking was if any water had got into the frame I would see evidence of that when it found it's way out.
There was no sign of water ingress and the bike was absolutely fine.
Based on that experience I wouldn't worry too much if my bike was on the back of the car in wet weather again. 
However, I'm a 'belt 'n' braces' man and I would probably use a nice large piece of 'gaffer' tape over the charging point and the iwoc control for piece of mind.


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## Southernguns (14 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'd also look at the 'gravel' 1 x 11 variations that are appearing.


They do a 1x12 system now and you can even get a (non SRam) 1x13 system which gives pretty much the same gearing as a shimano 2x system.


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## Widge (16 Aug 2019)

Hello all,
I have had a few good days out now on my new D30

I wonder if anyone here could help me with a couple of questions?

A few days ago I noticed a little play in the headset...nothing too drastic.....so, (as I have done many times on other bikes) I duly loosened the stem bolts and snugged down the top-cap to remove the play. All well and good now.

BUT.....after I retightened the two stem-steerer bolts I noticed there were no '_Nm_' torque settings marked anywhere on my 'Orbea'branded stem.

I'm afraid I have always tightened these sort of 'slip-critical' joints by 'feel' on my other (non carbon equipped) bikes. Poor practice I know! Nipping up tight with just 'wrist action' on a Y shaped multitool. Now I am panicking since It crossed my mind that I did not know whether the forks have an *alloy* steerer tube _or_ 100% *carbon* steerer (in which case my 'nip-it-tight-until-it's-right' protocol may prove lack-a-daisically inadequate). I wouldn't want to over (or UNDER) do it!

I've read a few horror stories involving cracked tubes/or catatastrophic slippage 

Does anyone know off-hand what the steerer tube is made of before I faff about redoing it all to find out?? Any advice re; specific torque settings?
I am sending away for a small torque wrench this weekend but I hope I haven't gone and overdone it already! But I am still unsure what torque setting I should use. Perhaps I am overthinking as usual?
I've never fettled anything involving carbon components before,

Many Thanks

Widge


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## youngoldbloke (16 Aug 2019)

I don't know what your steerer tube is made from, but I have consulted the Orbea 'Original Manual Instructions and Maintenance' (p43) that came with my Gain, and if there isn't a torque figure on the component they show a table of Allen Wrench Size / Nm:
3mm : 2.5 Nm min - 3 Nm max 
4mm : 4 - 5 Nm
5mm : 6 - 8 Nm
6mm : 11 - 15 Nm
My Orbea stem bolts are 4mm so their recommendation is 4-5 Nm


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## Solom01 (16 Aug 2019)

Hi Widge, I have an F30 so the parts are definitely different, but for what it's worth they have 5Nm on it. For some reason Ornea loves to make it hard to see their markings loving small print in non-contrasting colors, it took me a while to find it on mind, it was towards the top of the stem tube in the back - maybe yours is marked just in the back and kind of hidden?


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## Widge (16 Aug 2019)

Hey.....well spotted Solom01!

Mine has '5-7Nm' written in tiny just where you said. (Should've gone to specshavers.)

I wonder why it's different to yours? 

Thanks.

w


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## Solom01 (17 Aug 2019)

I took another look and sure enough mine also says 5-7, it's just that my old eyes didn't see the 7 and thought it was just the Nm. I swear the Spanish must have the best eyes in the world, the markings on this bike could not be harder to make out !


----------



## Southernguns (18 Aug 2019)

I have just checked and on on the 2020 frame there are no markings at all, or i am completely blind !


----------



## youngoldbloke (18 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I have just checked and on on the 2020 frame there are no markings at all, or i am completely blind !


Not on the stem itself? saddle side, between the 2 bolts.


----------



## eBikeWhisperer (18 Aug 2019)

Widge said:


> Hello all,
> I have had a few good days out now on my new D30
> 
> I wonder if anyone here could help me with a couple of questions?
> ...



Hi Widge. 

Don't be overly concerned about manufacturers not putting their torque settings on the parts. Mostly it is to protect the stem in this instance. Remember there are two components being affected. The handlebar and the stem. If both have an nm marking and they are different, then go the lesser of the two. In the event of no markings, the standard used in workshops is 5nm. This should be more than enough to hold any bar onto a steerer or handlebar. Just always make sure that all the bolts are done to the same torque and do a visual inspection of how close each bolt has pinched the stem together. There should be equal spacing for each bolt. 

Good luck


----------



## Southernguns (19 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Not on the stem itself? saddle side, between the 2 bolts.


nope - but my eyesight is not the best


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## Ckspark (19 Aug 2019)

My wife just rode her Orbea Gain F40 up Alpe D Huez in the French Alps with me and our son on our standard road bikes. It took her 1 hour 45 minutes to get to the top keeping the EBM in level 2 orange all the time. She had 17% battery left at the top so just enough juice. The descent didn't use any battery.
This is something she could never do on a standard road bike and has enhanced our holiday as she can now join in on some of our rides.


----------



## Scaleyback (19 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> My wife just rode her Orbea Gain F40 up Alpe D Huez in the French Alps with me and our son on our standard road bikes. It took her 1 hour 45 minutes to get to the top keeping the EBM in level 2 orange all the time. She had 17% battery left at the top so just enough juice. The descent didn't use any battery.
> This is something she could never do on a standard road bike and has enhanced our holiday as she can now join in on some of our rides.
> View attachment 480716



Well done to all of you, it is a very tough climb on any sort of bike. Chapeau !


----------



## CXRAndy (19 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> My wife just rode her Orbea Gain F40 up Alpe D Huez in the French Alps with me and our son on our standard road bikes. It took her 1 hour 45 minutes to get to the top keeping the EBM in level 2 orange all the time. She had 17% battery left at the top so just enough juice. The descent didn't use any battery.
> This is something she could never do on a standard road bike and has enhanced our holiday as she can now join in on some of our rides.
> View attachment 480716




Congratulations to your wife. Im hoping that my wife will cycle up an iconic climb like the Alp or Ventoux. She has an shopper ebike with gearing, so should have enough to assist her for a couple of hours


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## derrick (19 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> My wife just rode her Orbea Gain F40 up Alpe D Huez in the French Alps with me and our son on our standard road bikes. It took her 1 hour 45 minutes to get to the top keeping the EBM in level 2 orange all the time. She had 17% battery left at the top so just enough juice. The descent didn't use any battery.
> This is something she could never do on a standard road bike and has enhanced our holiday as she can now join in on some of our rides.
> View attachment 480716


It's what ebike are made for. I wish my wife would get one. It would make family rides stress free.


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## Widge (19 Aug 2019)

Riding up Alpe de Huez on _anything_ is a gob-smacking achievement!! 

Chapeau indeed! 

I'm just gobsmacked by being able to crest a few hills around my neck of the woods (Dartmoor) without the aid of a nurse.

Awful sporadically rainy moments at the moment though. (These bikes are water-proof aren't they?

Best

w


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## Southernguns (19 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> My wife just rode her Orbea Gain F40 up Alpe D Huez in the French Alps with me and our son on our standard road bikes. It took her 1 hour 45 minutes to get to the top keeping the EBM in level 2 orange all the time. She had 17% battery left at the top so just enough juice. The descent didn't use any battery.
> This is something she could never do on a standard road bike and has enhanced our holiday as she can now join in on some of our rides.
> View attachment 480716


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## Southernguns (19 Aug 2019)

Out of interest did you fly the bikes out or drive? Or are you from that part of the world already? I only ask as I am interested to know if airlines will take electric bikes?


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## CXRAndy (19 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Out of interest did you fly the bikes out or drive? Or are you from that part of the world already? I only ask as I am interested to know if airlines will take electric bikes?



Speaking to a co pilot recently, they said to carry battery with you and not into cargo hold. Its about being able to put out fire


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## robgul (20 Aug 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Speaking to a co pilot recently, they said to carry battery with you and not into cargo hold. Its about being able to put out fire



That's a bit of a problem with an Orbea as the battery isn't (easily) removable. 

It would be interesting to get the absolute answer on flying with an electric . . . probably a bit like the urban myth about letting the tyres down when flying?

Rob


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## Ckspark (20 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Out of interest did you fly the bikes out or drive? Or are you from that part of the world already? I only ask as I am interested to know if airlines will take electric bikes?


We drove from the UK so I'm not sure about flying. However we stayed in Bourg osains at the bottom of Alpe d Huez. There are a few good bike/hire shops which may even hire ebikes.


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## Solom01 (20 Aug 2019)

Hi. I'm not sure what the law is in the EU, but in the US it's pretty clear: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security...g/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours . So anything over 100 watts (which includes both the built-in and water bottle Gain batteries) is a no-go, unless you somehow got the internal battery out and it's doubtful if even then they would be allowed because they are way over the limit. That doesn't mean that you may not be able to "sneak" one on if someone at the gate doesn't realize that it's an electric bike, but if I certainly wouldn't want to risk that knowing that even if it did get through you may not be so lucky on the way back. And God forbid if something did go wrong on the flight and the battery ignited you'd have the book thrown at you for endangering a flight. That's one of the disadvantages of a bike with a non-removeable battery. If you could remove the battery you could ship it ahead of time by paying for hazardous transport but I don't think it would be easy with a Gain. Your safest bet would be to rent one locally if possible.


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## Southernguns (21 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> We drove from the UK so I'm not sure about flying. However we stayed in Bourg osains at the bottom of Alpe d Huez. There are a few good bike/hire shops which may even hire ebikes.


Thank you - worth knowing!


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## CXRAndy (21 Aug 2019)

robgul said:


> That's a bit of a problem with an Orbea as the battery isn't (easily) removable.
> 
> It would be interesting to get the absolute answer on flying with an electric . . . probably a bit like the urban myth about letting the tyres down when flying?
> 
> Rob



Its not a myth, but unlikely a non deflated tye will pop. I drop mine half pressure to keep bead in place-using tubeless


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## CXRAndy (21 Aug 2019)

Ckspark said:


> We drove from the UK so I'm not sure about flying. However we stayed in Bourg osains at the bottom of Alpe d Huez. There are a few good bike/hire shops which may even hire ebikes.



There are loads of bike shops, Ebike can be hired from the rime I was there


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## PK99 (21 Aug 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Its not a myth, but unlikely a non deflated tye will pop. I drop mine half pressure to keep bead in place-using tubeless



advice from CUK:
My bold..

*Deflating tyres*
This is not really necessary with bicycle tyres, since the maximum possible reduction in external pressure (about 10psi) has the same effect as that much extra _inside_ the tyre at ground level. Bicycle tyres are designed to stand way more than that. And even if one should blow off, it won’t contain enough air to damage anything apart from its own inner-tube.

In fact: leaving the tyres inflated helps to protect both tyre and rim from damage when the bike is handled. *Some airlines (e.g. BA) have realised this and exempted pedal cycle tyres from the usual restriction on the carriage of pressurised gases. *Check-in staff prefer nice simple rules however, with together with a dose of corporate amnesia means that you’ll often be asked “have you deflated the tyres” even when flying BA.

Always say “I have deflated the tyres”. No need to say when or how much. One advantage of the packing rule is they cannot easily check – but if you argue they will. You’ll have deflated the tyres last time you had a puncture, won’t you, but it doesn’t do any harm to let a little air out when you’re packing the bike. 10psi is plenty.

*The reason they have a rule about this is the amount of energy stored in a big tractor tyre, if it blew, could send the wheel through the side of the plane! And tractor tyres work at such low pressure, an extra 10psi might really make it happen.

*


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## Widge (22 Aug 2019)

Just a heads up to my earlier post...........
I can confirm after due investigation that the the forks AND steerer tube are indeed of a one piece carbon construction (like most £1000+ road bikes these days it seems).
Sadly...I suffer from a bit of an anxiety issue (no Really!) where sometimes the worst thing I can do is read Google about the likelihood of carbon catastrophically failing-although statistically mostly it doesn't ....so thank god I have invested in a (torsion beam system) torque wrench.
Sure enough-I had marginally overtightened the stem to steerer bolts after relying on just 'feel' and have since discovered that just 'tight enough' is where I should be.
5-6nm (or even possibly less!) in case you're wondering? How can we know?

Internet opinions vary wildly from 'don't sweat it' to OMG you're DOOMED' so it is a bit of a lottery to know what to believe.

I never had this worry with any of my steel/or aluminium bikes in the past but apparently CF is stronger than some of us think it is?

Any thoughts or opinions?

Yours, Paranoid,

Widge


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## Storck (22 Aug 2019)

Widge said:


> Just a heads up to my earlier post...........
> I can confirm after due investigation that the the forks AND steerer tube are indeed of a one piece carbon construction (like most £1000+ road bikes these days it seems).
> Sadly...I suffer from a bit of an anxiety issue (no Really!) where sometimes the worst thing I can do is read Google about the likelihood of carbon catastrophically failing-although statistically mostly it doesn't ....so thank god I have invested in a (torsion beam system) torque wrench.
> Sure enough-I had marginally overtightened the stem to steerer bolts after relying on just 'feel' and have since discovered that just 'tight enough' is where I should be.
> ...



Still got and riding one of the first all carbon frames Trek Team Postal. Recall folks saying it would come apart or snap after a couple of years. Well no it hasn't, done tens of thousands of miles on it. And now? People ask me if it's for sale!


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## No pain no gain (22 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> I took another look and sure enough mine also says 5-7, it's just that my old eyes didn't see the 7 and thought it was just the Nm. I swear the Spanish must have the best eyes in the world, the markings on this bike could not be harder to make out !


The same goes for the app. The overall grey screen is not a good colour when viewed on a phone, particularly in bright sunshine. White with black markings would be better. I fed this back to the app developer as it is still in beta mode but I suspect this will fall on deaf ears.


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## robgul (22 Aug 2019)

A bloke brought a Gain F30 into my shop today - brand new, bought from Cycle Republic and the LH shifter didn't work .... turns out that the shop had fitted bar-ends and just moved the ergo-grips inboard a bit so that they jammed the triggers - easy fix.

BUT what was interesting and not something I had seen before was that it had a switch on the handlebars that controlled the motor - on/off switch and stepping up or down the power levels with a toggle switch. It had the top-tube button too although I think that only switched the motor on or off - not the power changes.

I have a Gain D40 about 18 months old with just the top-tube button - it's a bit frustrating (and I've fed this back to Orbea FWIW) to go from Amber to Green by having to go through the red phase first. 

I agree the single button is neat BUT a toggle or two buttons would be better. I'm wondering if the handlebar switch could be a retro-fit option (although I'm not sure where it would go on drop bars?)

Rob


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## Solom01 (22 Aug 2019)

Hi robgul, yes, all the flat handlebar Gain models have the iwoc 3 handlebar control in addition to the standard top tube control. As you noted although they control the same functions the iwoc 3 allows one to go up and down so you don't have to cycle as with the top tube iwoc 1. I think the Orbea site lists it as an option, and there is no electrical reason why it shouldn't work, but even though it really is quite narrow do you think there would be room to install it on a drop bar? If it fits I don't understand why they don't put it on all their bikes. It doesn't seem like it would add a lot of cost and it doesn't stand out so it doesn't take away from the "stealthy" nature of the bike.


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## robgul (22 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi robgul, yes, all the flat handlebar Gain models have the iwoc 3 handlebar control in addition to the standard top tube control. As you noted although they control the same functions the iwoc 3 allows one to go up and down so you don't have to cycle as with the top tube iwoc 1. I think the Orbea site lists it as an option, and there is no electrical reason why it shouldn't work, but even though it really is quite narrow do you think there would be room to install it on a drop bar? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but if it fits I don't understand why they don't put it on all their bikes. It doesn't seem like it would add a lot of cost and it doesn't stand out so it doesn't take away from the "stealthy" nature of the bike.



Ah - I thought that was the situation. As you suggest on drop bars may be an issue although my Gain is set up as a tourer with mudguards, rack and R&K KlickFix bar bag fitting so it MIGHT be possible to cobble something - perhaps I'll have a look when I get time.

Rob


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## NickWi (22 Aug 2019)

...........and it doesn't stand out so it doesn't take away from the "stealthy" nature of the bike.

Talking of which, or not as the case maybe, my Range Extender battery arrived today. To say it looks a bit like a water bottle is like saying I look a bit like George Clooney. Yes I've got two eyes, a nose, mouth etc and they're arranged in the usual format, but good looking I ain't; and neither is the Ranger Extra battery. It is very obviously a battery and not a water bottle so the stealthy element goes out the window.

Full report to follow after rides with it over the weekend.


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## Solom01 (23 Aug 2019)

Fantastic! Although I'm really not in the market for one I'm curious about how it works, especially about the 2 amp Max and if that really will keep the internal battery topped off. Anxious to hear what you think, who knows, maybe it's worth it after all?


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## BucksCS (23 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi robgul, yes, all the flat handlebar Gain models have the iwoc 3 handlebar control in addition to the standard top tube control. As you noted although they control the same functions the iwoc 3 allows one to go up and down so you don't have to cycle as with the top tube iwoc 1. I think the Orbea site lists it as an option, and there is no electrical reason why it shouldn't work, but even though it really is quite narrow do you think there would be room to install it on a drop bar? If it fits I don't understand why they don't put it on all their bikes. It doesn't seem like it would add a lot of cost and it doesn't stand out so it doesn't take away from the "stealthy" nature of the bike.


The iwoc3 also has a useful powered "walk" mode which is hidden very deep in the documentation - it's useful if walking the bike through railway stations for example (or even on very steep unrideable hills).


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## Solom01 (23 Aug 2019)

So here is what is probably a really dumb question. I use a Garmin so I don't use the ebikemotion app when I ride. I occasionally turn it on to change power levels or see the exact charge amount but that's about it. Today I went into the engine setting and was surprise to see that there is an "odometry" field that had kept track of the total miles on the bike. I actually think that's a good thing, since it's a record I want to have, but how does the app know this if it's almost never turned on? Is it just the revolutions of the motor or something?


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## Scaleyback (23 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> So here is what is probably a really dumb question. I use a Garmin so I don't use the ebikemotion app when I ride. I occasionally turn it on to change power levels or see the exact charge amount but that's about it. Today I went into the engine setting and was surprise to see that there is an "odometry" field that had kept track of the total miles on the bike. I actually think that's a good thing, since it's a record I want to have, but how does the app know this if it's almost never turned on? Is it just the revolutions of the motor or something?



Hi Solom01,
My use of the ebikemotion app mirrors yours and I have never noticed the "odometry" field in the rare times I use the app. Could it be a recent change to the app ?
But yes the bike itself must be logging the distance. When I log on to www.ebikemotion.com and assuming you have registered ? under My Profile / My ebikes
it will give you your ebike serial No, the activation date and the miles/kms the bike has completed. It must update the My ebikes mileage whenever you connect via the app? I also use a Garmin and record all my rides on garminconnect and the mileage I have recorded is pretty close to what shows on My Profile page.


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## Solom01 (23 Aug 2019)

Thanks Scaleyback, I guess that's the way it works. I don't think it's new, it's just hard to find. You have to connect the bike to the app. Under settings right under the help and support there's a field called Engineering mode. When you click on that field there's all sorts of info on your bike including the miles. I did register on the ebikemotion site, but I never go to it. Although I'm not too interested in the water bottle battery a lot of people are and because of the high price there are people trying to come up with a third party solution. When I saw the engineering page and realized how much info. Orbea has on the bike and how it is updated (and yes my miles are pretty much on spot with my Garmin results) I decided I would never risk using a third party solution while I'm under warranty. I have no doubt that Orbea would know that third party items were used and use that as a reason to void the warranty regardless of what really caused the problem.


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## Storck (23 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Thanks Scaleyback, I guess that's the way it works. I don't think it's new, it's just hard to find. You have to connect the bike to the app. Under settings right under the help and support there's a field called Engineering mode. When you click on that field there's all sorts of info on your bike including the miles. I did register on the ebikemotion site, but I never go to it. Although I'm not too interested in the water bottle battery a lot of people are and because of the high price there are people trying to come up with a third party solution. When I saw the engineering page and realized how much info. Orbea has on the bike and how it is updated (and yes my miles are pretty much on spot with my Garmin results) I decided I would never risk using a third party solution while I'm under warranty. I have no doubt that Orbea would know that third party items were used and use that as a reason to void the warranty regardless of what really caused the problem.



Very wise Sol, I'm with you on that. Not a good idea in my humble opinion to be adding any speed deristricting devices into the system. At least whiles under warranty period.


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## Southernguns (24 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> So here is what is probably a really dumb question. I use a Garmin so I don't use the ebikemotion app when I ride. I occasionally turn it on to change power levels or see the exact charge amount but that's about it. Today I went into the engine setting and was surprise to see that there is an "odometry" field that had kept track of the total miles on the bike. I actually think that's a good thing, since it's a record I want to have, but how does the app know this if it's almost never turned on? Is it just the revolutions of the motor or something?





Scaleyback said:


> Hi Solom01,
> My use of the ebikemotion app mirrors yours and I have never noticed the "odometry" field in the rare times I use the app. Could it be a recent change to the app ?
> But yes the bike itself must be logging the distance. When I log on to www.ebikemotion.com and assuming you have registered ? under My Profile / My ebikes
> it will give you your ebike serial No, the activation date and the miles/kms the bike has completed. It must update the My ebikes mileage whenever you connect via the app? I also use a Garmin and record all my rides on garminconnect and the mileage I have recorded is pretty close to what shows on My Profile page.



It has always been on the website and I think it was on the app when I first started using it, but only when connected to the bike - I could be wrong on this though, as my memory isn't the best. The app has had many recent updates of course.

What is interesting is that if I look online at the 'dashboard ' section of the website it has my total km covered as only the rides I actually recorded on the app listed in the 'activities' section, but if I look in the 'my bike' section it has the total km covered as the actual total distance that I have covered (double the kms listed in the 'dashboard' section). As I have a new frame with a different serial number, but the components are that from my old frame, then I guess the recording of the total km could be coming from either the motor in the rear wheel or some sort of GPS built into the iwoc. It would be interesting to see if it was ridden without turning the iwoc on whether it still recorded the total miles. Or (when out of warranty) if the rear wheel was replaced with a normal wheel for a short ride whether this would effect the recording of the total distance. The cynical me thinks that Orbea definitely record via GPS in order (even if the app isn't being used) to identify where their bikes are being ridden, by what type of rider (serious, occasional...), how often and for what type of riding (road, gravel, hill climbing...). This would certainly allow them to focus their advertising and sales to maximize profits and gather and sell data to other companies.


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## Scaleyback (24 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> It has always been on the website and I think it was on the app when I first started using it, but only when connected to the bike - I could be wrong on this though, as my memory isn't the best. The app has had many recent updates of course.
> 
> What is interesting is that if I look online at the 'dashboard ' section of the website it has my total km covered as only the rides I actually recorded on the app listed in the 'activities' section, but if I look in the 'my bike' section it has the total km covered as the actual total distance that I have covered (double the kms listed in the 'dashboard' section).



Yes, mine is the same just a few rides recorded before I gave up using the app each ride. But total mileage keeps accumulating.


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## Solom01 (24 Aug 2019)

Hi guys. I think that in the dealer app if they replace major components like the frame and motor the dealer has to enter it into the database so Orbea is aware that it's still the same bike/ owner even if it has been altered. I guess that's also a way for them to know if major work has been done by a non-dealer. I hope it's GPS, my life is a bore so I could care less what they know, but if it is GPS maybe in the future it could be used to locate stolen bikes or find someone who has been hurt.


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## Storck (24 Aug 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi guys. I think that in the dealer app if they replace major components like the frame and motor the dealer has to enter it into the database so Orbea is aware that it's still the same bike/ owner even if it has been altered. I guess that's also a way for them to know if major work has been done by a non-dealer. I hope it's GPS, my life is a bore so I could care less what they know, but if it is GPS maybe in the future it could be used to locate stolen bikes or find someone who has been hurt.



This week here in UK its come to light all Mercedes-Benz cars that are leased have a GPS fitted in them, unknown up to now by the public. It appears this is something the EU are looking into. Could be illegal?


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## Southernguns (24 Aug 2019)

My last 2 leased citroen vans have both been fitted with GPS which is used should it be stolen. The boss can also pay for a 'follow me service" which I hope he is too tight to pay for!!!

I notice that when signed in on the emotion website there is some option (I cannot remember its name) to enable alert mode. I guess this could be for if it is stolen maybe? Does anyone know?


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## Storck (25 Aug 2019)

Southernguns said:


> My last 2 leased citroen vans have both been fitted with GPS which is used should it be stolen. The boss can also pay for a 'follow me service" which I hope he is too tight to pay for!!!
> 
> I notice that when signed in on the emotion website there is some option (I cannot remember its name) to enable alert mode. I guess this could be for if it is stolen maybe? Does anyone know?



No, I think it's for personal alerts ie. Max HR when reached or food intake etc.


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## NickWi (25 Aug 2019)

NickWi said:


> ...........and it doesn't stand out so it doesn't take away from the "stealthy" nature of the bike.
> 
> Talking of which, or not as the case maybe, my Range Extender battery arrived today. To say it looks a bit like a water bottle is like saying I look a bit like George Clooney. Yes I've got two eyes, a nose, mouth etc and they're arranged in the usual format, but good looking I ain't; and neither is the Ranger Extra battery. It is very obviously a battery and not a water bottle so the stealthy element goes out the window.
> 
> Full report to follow after rides with it over the weekend.



Well, it does what it says on the tin. It recharges the main battery as you ride along! I know that sounds like stating the bleeding obvious, but it does it smoothly, unobtrusively and if you didn't know it was only the main battery that could power the motor you'd swear it was the Range Extender Battery (REB from now on) doing it as the Iwoc power display on the bike stayed on White for the entire ride with the REB display slowly going through the change what's left colous as it used up its juice.

With both batteries powered up the phone app says 200%, you don't get a breakdown by battery, maybe one for the suggestion box. The bottle cage and glorified elastic band held everything in place, no rattles and I couldn't feel the extra weight when riding. Looking down to see what colour the Iwoc button on the REB became a new habit and it turned from White to Green at about 15miles. When it eventually died at 46miles (and if the button on the REB did the red flashing thing for less than 10% power left I didn't notice), but when I did noticed it had expired I stopped and looked at the power in the main battery on my phone. It said 95%. The REB could have died anytime in the last mile, but I was riding uphill on a busy and narrow country lane and I had other things to concentrate on.

The ride today wasn't particularly hilly, I average 13mph with 1,600ft of climbing in 50.2miles (and yes, I had to ride around the block to get that magic extra couple of fractions of a mile in). I rode mostly on Green Level 1 with the occasional foray into L2 or L3 for the odd hill or two, but boy was it hot today. 30deg C the weather man says and I believe him. For those of you who live in warmer climates that may not sound much, but to us Lilly White Brits, trust me, that’s hot. I’ve just had a tot up, I got through 3⅓ litres of water out on the ride, plus tea before and several large glasses of water when I got home.

So, my conclusion (albeit after only one ride with a REB); Well as I said previously it’s an ugly bugger, but the REB does what it’s supposed to do. 46miles down and with 95% left in the main battery I know I, (no I’ll rephrase that), I know a rider with better legs than me could easily have ridden 100 plus miles using power assistance, and that's an extended range. How it would cope with more climbing and/or steeper hills I don’t know, but as it stands, for my type of riding, at my speeds and for the gentle undulating terrain in my part of the world, it does what it says on the tin, and does it very well.


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## Solom01 (25 Aug 2019)

Nickwi, thanks for the report, sounds great and it keeps you in Orbea's good graces if they're spying. 30 sounds good, it's about 33.5 here in SW Florida and 95% humidity so it's like biking in a sauna. What doesn't kill you makes you strong, right?


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## Scaleyback (25 Aug 2019)

How long are your chains lasting on the Gain guys ?
I changed my D30 105 chain today at 1,000 miles I checked it with the Park Tool CC2 chain checker and it shows my chain 0.5% worn. I read where 11 speed chains should be changed at 0.5 and 8/9/10 speed at 0.75. 
I was told by a bike mechanic/technician that the ebike chains wear quicker 
due to the power going through them. My normal bike chains certainly last a lot longer than 1,000 miles. N.B I do try to keep my chains clean and oiled.


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## Scaleyback (25 Aug 2019)

NickWi said:


> I got through 3⅓ litres of water out on the ride, plus tea before and several large glasses of water when I got home.



You must have a ‘nuclear grade’ bladder ? If I consumed that amount of fluids before and during riding I would spend more time behind a hedge p***ing than
pedalling.


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## NickWi (25 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> How long are your chains lasting on the Gain guys ?
> I changed my D30 105 chain today at 1,000 miles I checked it with the Park Tool CC2 chain checker and it shows my chain 0.5% worn. I read where 11 speed chains should be changed at 0.5 and 8/9/10 speed at 0.75.
> I was told by a bike mechanic/technician that the ebike chains wear quicker
> due to the power going through them. My normal bike chains certainly last a lot longer than 1,000 miles. N.B I do try to keep my chains clean and oiled.



Yeah, that's about what the chain lasted on my D20 (Sram 1x11 with a KMC chain). I replaced it with the same as I needed a quick replacement, but next time I'll look around for options. 1,000miles for a well looked after chain isn't very good in my books. I've also developed a creak, and as of today a slight knock from my bottom bracket. Again having done only 1,800miles on my Gain, not impressed.

Lastly your mechanic is getting confused between e-bike drive types. With crank driven type drives he's right, extra power IS being transmitted by the chain and that's got to take its toll. On hub driven type bikes it isn't. In fact, surely the opposite should apply. Oughtn't a hub driven bike be easier on the chain?


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## NickWi (25 Aug 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> You must have a ‘nuclear grade’ bladder ? If I consumed that amount of fluids before and during riding I would spend more time behind a hedge p***ing than pedalling.



Yeah, I did have to nip behind the hedge on a couple or three occassions, but I was also sweating bucklets. That absorbant foam band on the inside of your helmet that rests against your forehead certainly earned its money today stopping the sweat running down and into my eyes. I've also got to say modern wicking fabrics really do do a good job a shifting your sweat to the outside so you don't actually feel sweaty.


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## Solom01 (25 Aug 2019)

You're absolutely right Nickwi. Mid-drives are hard on chains, hub drives bypass the chains totally. Heck one of the advantages of a hub drive is that if your chain breaks you can still use the motor to keep moving.


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## Southernguns (26 Aug 2019)

Storck said:


> No, I think it's for personal alerts ie. Max HR when reached or food intake etc.


Ah, that would make sense. Although I am pretty good remembering to take food:-) hehe


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## Scaleyback (26 Aug 2019)

NickWi said:


> Lastly your mechanic is getting confused between e-bike drive types. With crank driven type drives he's right, extra power IS being transmitted by the chain and that's got to take its toll. On hub driven type bikes it isn't. In fact, surely the opposite should apply. Oughtn't a hub driven bike be easier on the chain?



No, the mechanic is not confused, I am !
It was the mech who serviced my Bosch powered MTB (don’t have it anymore)
who told me this. It’s me who’s ‘lumped’ all ebikes together without giving it any thought.


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## youngoldbloke (26 Aug 2019)

Over 2100 miles now - chain not reading 0.75 yet. 2018 D30 10 speed Tiagra.


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## Scaleyback (26 Aug 2019)

I must be putting so much power through the pedals my chains are wearing quickly ?


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## youngoldbloke (29 Aug 2019)

Range extender thoughts ..... seems that the eventual introduction of this long awaited device emphasises that ebike manufacturers have not yet solved the problem of where to hide a high capacity battery. A major factor in my buying a Gain was it's 'stealthy' appearance, with the battery hidden in a fairly normal looking down tube. Install the ugly lump that is the range extender and it screams 'EBIKE'. I suppose there's no real solution until technology improves?
(edit: No, I won't be getting one)


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## robgul (29 Aug 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Range extender thoughts ..... seems that the eventual introduction of this long awaited device emphasises that ebike manufacturers have not yet solved the problem of where to hide a high capacity battery. A major factor in my buying a Gain was it's 'stealthy' appearance, with the battery hidden in a fairly normal looking down tube. Install the ugly lump that is the range extender and it screams 'EBIKE'. I suppose there's no real solution until technology improves?
> (edit: No, I won't be getting one)



Yes - it does look ugly and at a massive price. So far I've not had my battery below 25% left by a mix of powered and unpowered riding - although I have on one occasion taken the charger and had a squirt of electricity at a friend's house for half an hour.

I suppose the ultimate is an induction wire embedded in the roads 

Rob


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## Solom01 (2 Sep 2019)

Hi folks. Quick question, can you guys confirm the battery capacity of the main battery in your Gains from the information given in the engineering mode section of the eBikemotion app? I'm a bit worried about battery longevity because even though I never let my battery go below 30% and try to not charge it to 100% the weather here is really hot and humid which is not great for lithium batteries. I keep the bike inside, but when I ride the temperature is often at or near 100 degrees F. My current capacity is 237.2 which is a bit below what it's supposed to be (but well within normal variances I guess) and it has remained at that amount since I started looking, but I was just wondering what other bikes are showing. Thanks


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## arao99 (2 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. Quick question, can you guys confirm the battery capacity of the main battery in your Gains from the information given in the engineering mode section of the eBikemotion app? I'm a bit worried about battery longevity because even though I never let my battery go below 30% and try to not charge it to 100% the weather here is really hot and humid which is not great for lithium batteries. I keep the bike inside, but when I ride the temperature is often at or near 100 degrees F. My current capacity is 237.2 which is a bit below what it's supposed to be (but well within normal variances I guess) and it has remained at that amount since I started looking, but I was just wondering what other bikes are showing. Thanks[/QU
> 
> My current capacity is 238.6 after 283miles


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## Solom01 (2 Sep 2019)

Thanks. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up until it cools off here in November.


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## Zeek48 (2 Sep 2019)

NickWi said:


> Well, it does what it says on the tin. It recharges the main battery as you ride along! I know that sounds like stating the bleeding obvious, but it does it smoothly, unobtrusively and if you didn't know it was only the main battery that could power the motor you'd swear it was the Range Extender Battery (REB from now on) doing it as the Iwoc power display on the bike stayed on White for the entire ride with the REB display slowly going through the change what's left colous as it used up its juice.
> 
> With both batteries powered up the phone app says 200%, you don't get a breakdown by battery, maybe one for the suggestion box. The bottle cage and glorified elastic band held everything in place, no rattles and I couldn't feel the extra weight when riding. Looking down to see what colour the Iwoc button on the REB became a new habit and it turned from White to Green at about 15miles. When it eventually died at 46miles (and if the button on the REB did the red flashing thing for less than 10% power left I didn't notice), but when I did noticed it had expired I stopped and looked at the power in the main battery on my phone. It said 95%. The REB could have died anytime in the last mile, but I was riding uphill on a busy and narrow country lane and I had other things to concentrate on.
> 
> ...



Thx for your battery extender report. I have one on order and scheduled to arrive mid September. Not sure how much I will use it but would like to do 4-6 Century rides a year. I have been able to manage most of my rides just fine so far by only using power on hill or into big winds. I'm 71 and most of the people I ride with are 10-15 yrs younger. 

My average group ride ranges from 60-100kms with 300-600M elevation. I usually on use A1 but will sometimes treat myself to A2 getting closer to home.

I just completed 2 of my hardest rides last weekend with a 2 day charity ride of 110km/850m, first day and 103km/1044m. Was turning power off/on all day and finished with just less than 25% both days. Had I had the battery extender, I probably would've used the power more often.

Probably also wouldn't be ridding with out the E-assist.


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## Scaleyback (3 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. Quick question, can you guys confirm the battery capacity of the main battery in your Gains



From memory I think my battery capacity is 244w when fully charged ?
Like you I no longer charge to 100% but I will charge to 100% next time and check it and report back.

P.S Better ignore my 244w. Just logged on to my ebikemotion account and I see the 
nominal capacity of the battery is 244.4 Wh. I guess this is the number I was remembering ?
However I will still check mine.


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## Solom01 (3 Sep 2019)

Thanks guys. My capacity is a bit lower, but it seems like that could easily be manufacturing variance. It's also possible that because I'm in the US the battery sat around discharged while it was shipped; that our higher assisted limit of 20 mph is harder on the battery; or that the insane weather conditions here are hard on it. I'll keep an eye on it to see how quickly it looses capacity, but I'm not too worried about it. By the time it's toast I'm sure there'll be some new technology available that makes this look like a relic.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Sep 2019)

Just checked - capacity "249.4 wh/250.2 wh" in the app. Is that what I'm looking for? That's after 2198 miles. Always charged back up to 100%.


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## Solom01 (3 Sep 2019)

That's it. Thanks for checking.


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## G3CWI (5 Sep 2019)

Has anyone successfully used the ebikemotion app with a HRM to control the level of assist given by their Gain? That looks like a really handy facility - if it works. I'm awaiting my Gain M21.


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## Storck (5 Sep 2019)

G3CWI said:


> Has anyone successfully used the ebikemotion app with a HRM to control the level of assist given by their Gain? That looks like a really handy facility - if it works. I'm awaiting my Gain M21.



It works, however it's slow to respond ie. Cresting a hill, your HR is still high, so more power assist is applied even though you are desending.


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## G3CWI (5 Sep 2019)

Storck said:


> It works, however it's slow to respond ie. Cresting a hill, your HR is still high, so more power assist is applied even though you are desending.



Thanks. I look forward to experimenting with it.


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## Scaleyback (6 Sep 2019)

When your ready for an upgrade ?
This Wilier Centro10 Hybrid use the ebikemotion X35 (Gain) drive system. I do like where they have sited the iWoc button.
10.2kg (claimed) Oh, it starts at 7,900euro (£7,090.00) cough, splutter 
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/wilier-cento10-hybrid-e-bike/


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## youngoldbloke (6 Sep 2019)

- spoilt for choice: FSA e-road bike - not the X35 system apparently, but looks incredibly like it. Probably a bit expensive as well .


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## Zeek48 (7 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - spoilt for choice: FSA e-road bike - not the X35 system apparently, but looks incredibly like it. Probably a bit expensive as well .


If it's not a licensed deal with ebikemotion it sure looks pretty close to copyright infringement. Only thing different is 5 speeds.


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2019)

Zeek48 said:


> If it's not a licensed deal with ebikemotion it sure looks pretty close to copyright infringement. Only thing different is 5 speeds.



https://www.bikeradar.com/news/fsa-e-bike-system/

" We asked whether the FSA System uses technology licensed from brands such as Orbea who already have similar-looking motors in place. FSA was quick to respond telling us that its System is made entirely in-house using FSA designed, engineered and produced technologies. "

Hmm, let the lawsuits begin ?


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## CXRAndy (8 Sep 2019)

Nothing will come of it. The technology has existed for a long time. Its only the design which has similar look. Unless its using identical Orbea components without permission, this is assuming Orbea didn't copy someone else's design 

Remember apple v Samsung for copying their design. It came to nothing in the end, you cant patent a curve edge.


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just checked - capacity "249.4 wh/250.2 wh" in the app. Is that what I'm looking for? That's after 2198 miles. Always charged back up to 100%.



Full charged my battery (via the app) just says 243w. That seems a different
report to yours Peter, am I looking in a different place in the app ?


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## youngoldbloke (8 Sep 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Full charged my battery (via the app) just says 243w. That seems a different
> report to yours Peter, am I looking in a different place in the app ?


Where are you looking? Just now I'm in 'settings', scrolled down to 'Help and Support', to 'Engineering' - battery capacity (at 57% charge remaining after this morning's ride) shows: '143.6wh/250.2wh'
(that would indicate 43% of charge used = 250.2wh-143.6wh = 106.6wh. Therefore 106.6/43x100 suggests a full charge capacity of 247.90697wh)
I'll check it again later when I've fully charged it.
edit - as I think the 43% is a rounded up figure.


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Where are you looking? Just now I'm in 'settings', scrolled down to 'Help and Support', to 'Engineering' - battery capacity (at 57% charge remaining after this morning's ride) shows: '143.6wh/250.2wh'
> (that would indicate 43% of charge used = 250.2wh-143.6wh = 106.6wh. Therefore 106.6/43x100 suggests a full charge capacity of 247.90697wh)
> I'll check it again later when I've fully charged it.
> edit - as I think the 43% is a rounded up figure.



Ok, I wasn't looking in the 'Help & Support, Engineering' section, Doh ! now I know where to look. 

Bearing in mind Solom01's original question:-
" Hi folks. Quick question, can you guys confirm the battery capacity of the main battery in your Gains from the information given in the engineering mode section of the eBikemotion app?

So my battery is down to 84% after todays ride of 31m and the battery capacity in Engineering is now 205.2wh
So my suspect maths leads me to a fully charged battery as:-

205.2wh = 84%
So 1% = 205.2 divided by 84 = = 2.442857412
100% battery = 100 x 2.442857412 = 244.285wh

Peter, using my method above and your posted figures your fully charged battery is 251.93wh (rounded up) ?

Of course this is assuming the battery discharge is linear ?

I will check this when I next fully charge the battery.


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## Solom01 (8 Sep 2019)

Hi folks. The capacity of a brand new Gain battery is supposed to be 242 wh. This will degrade over time as do all lithium batteries, and like all specs there will be some variance from the factory, but I interested in how quickly they degrade. Since I'm in the US with a 20 mile cut off instead of 15.5 I'm thinking this will wear the battery a bit quicker. I also live in a very hot and humid area and although I keep the bike inside, that type of weather is also hard on batteries. Since most of you are in the UK or EU I was wondering how your batteries were faring under less stringent conditions.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Sep 2019)

Just re-checked: 100% charge, 249.8wh/250.2wh. 



Scaleyback said:


> Ok, I wasn't looking in the 'Help & Support, Engineering' section, Doh ! now I know where to look.
> Peter, using my method above and your posted figures your fully charged battery is 251.93wh (rounded up) ?
> Of course this is assuming the battery discharge is linear ?
> I will check this when I next fully charge the battery.



I think the only accurate way of checking is to fully charge and then look at the app. I'm assuming my original battery capacity was 250.2wh and the 249.8wh indicates the capacity now and the loss of capacity since new over 1 year ago.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. The capacity of a brand new Gain battery is supposed to be 242 wh. This will degrade over time as do all lithium batteries, and like all specs there will be some variance from the factory, but I interested in how quickly they degrade. Since I'm in the US with a 20 mile cut off instead of 15.5 I'm thinking this will wear the battery a bit quicker. I also live in a very hot and humid area and although I keep the bike inside, that type of weather is also hard on batteries. Since most of you are in the UK or EU I was wondering how your batteries were faring under less stringent conditions.


Where does the 242wh figure come from? What is the 2nd figure in your app? Certainly couldn't describe the UK as a 'hot and humid' country, and although we have our colder spells it is never really cold here. I've done around 140 - 150 rides on the Gain (can't be sure as the app was so unreliable in early days - although in fact it crashed just a mile or so before the end of today's ride which went unrecorded as a result) so the battery has been topped up numerous times since new.


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just re-checked: 100% charge, 249.8wh/250.2wh.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only accurate way of checking is to fully charge and then look at the app. I'm assuming my original battery capacity was 250.2wh and the 249.8wh indicates the capacity now and the loss of capacity since new over 1 year ago.



Yes, your most likely correct, I will try and remember to check mine next time I fully charge it.
I guess if you have only lost 0.4wh of battery capacity in 140-150 rides and 2,000+ miles that is a decent result, yes ?


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## Zeek48 (8 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. The capacity of a brand new Gain battery is supposed to be 242 wh. This will degrade over time as do all lithium batteries, and like all specs there will be some variance from the factory, but I interested in how quickly they degrade. Since I'm in the US with a 20 mile cut off instead of 15.5 I'm thinking this will wear the battery a bit quicker. I also live in a very hot and humid area and although I keep the bike inside, that type of weather is also hard on batteries. Since most of you are in the UK or EU I was wondering how your batteries were faring under less stringent conditions.


Solom01, I'm kinda of curious also. My bike is in AZ where it is stored in my house all summer as we are snowbirds and I ride in the winter months. Have been wondering what the hot dry temps are doing to the battery. House AC is set at 86F all summer but it is warm and dry.


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## Solom01 (8 Sep 2019)

The 242 watt hours is what is claimed by Orbea, although there would always be factory variations. .4 loss over 2k would be incredibly good, heck lithium batteries have a shelf life just existing in perfect condition and not bring used. I've had 4 ebikes before and the other 3 used Samsung cells ( I believe Ebikemotion uses Panasonic cells) and I would consider a 5 year life before loosing 1/2 of their capacity to be good.


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## Solom01 (8 Sep 2019)

Hi Zeek. I wouldn't worry about 86, that's not bad at all, and for longest life if you're not going to ride it all summer try to make sure it is left at about 50% or so charge (not at 100% and definitely not super low). In my case I've never ridden my bike when the temperature hasn't been at least 90 degrees with humidity in the 80s or above - that's our normal temperature in Summer in the Gulf coast of Florida. Don't know where you're from but we have tons of snowbirds here especially from Canada. A lot of them leave the AC in the 80s while they're up north and come back to mold coming out of the ducts and all over everything. Oh well, at least in the winter time it's be in the 70s and sunny - no snow or black ice, so there's that to look forward to.  I normally don't get this hung up with battery life on my other bikes because when they die you simply bite the bullet and buy a new one, but without an Orbea dealer near me and a non user-replaceable battery I don't know what will happen when it dies. I guess I might just have to use it as a non ebike, which at least you can do with the Gains unlike a lot of other really heavy bikes.


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2019)

Zeek48 said:


> Solom01, I'm kinda of curious also. My bike is in AZ where it is stored in my house all summer as we are snowbirds and I ride in the winter months. Have been wondering what the hot dry temps are doing to the battery. House AC is set at 86F all summer but it is warm and dry.



Zeek48, do you know Orbea recommend the battery is charged I think it is every 2 months ?


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## Zeek48 (8 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi Zeek. I wouldn't worry about 86, that's not bad at all, and for longest life if you're not going to ride it all summer try to make sure it is left at about 50% or so charge (not at 100% and definitely not super low). In my case I've never ridden my bike when the temperature hasn't been at least 90 degrees with humidity in the 80s or above - that's our normal temperature in Summer in the Gulf coast of Florida. Don't know where you're from but we have tons of snowbirds here especially from Canada. A lot of them leave the AC in the 80s while they're up north and come back to mold coming out of the ducts and all over everything. Oh well, at least in the winter time it's be in the 70s and sunny - no snow or black ice, so there's that to look forward to.  I normally don't get this hung up with battery life on my other bikes because when they die you simply bite the bullet and buy a new one, but without an Orbea dealer near me and a non user-replaceable battery I don't know what will happen when it dies. I guess I might just have to use it as a non ebike, which at least you can do with the Gains unlike a lot of other really heavy bikes.


Thx Solom01, our problem is definitely not the humidity and mold. We would like to see some. Our problem is everything drying out. Wood furniture, rubber etc. One of the reasons I'm a little concerned about the battery is we are lucky to get 24-36 months out of car and golf cart batteries in AZ because of the summer heat. In Canada even with the cold we rarely have to replace until 7-8 yrs. I'm hoping storing inside at 86F will work rather than the 110F+ the garage can get to in the summer. Looking forward to getting back down there.


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## Zeek48 (8 Sep 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Zeek48, do you know Orbea recommend the battery is charged I think it is every 2 months ?


Have read that. Left it at about an 75-80% charge. Difficult to do anything more when it's left for 6 months.


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## Zeek48 (8 Sep 2019)

Ironically I will have a similar issue with my bike left at home in Canada during the winter. I have a Bianchi eroad Aria here. Will be left in house but heated all winter.


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## Solom01 (8 Sep 2019)

Zeek, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's nothing magic or particularly new about lithium battery technologies, it's all a series of compromises. Vendors constantly say things to protect themselves against warranty claims while making their range look good. There is no doubt that charging a lithium battery above 80% or so or letting it get much below 20% will drastically shorten it's lifespan by a factor of 2-4X, but if you're an eBike vendor can you imagine stating the range with those margins built-in? You'd never sell a bike. They always say to make sure you charge the bike from anywhere between 30 days and 90 days if you're not using it - but that's just to prevent it from going to 0% which will kill the battery in no time. Since you're not there to charge it there's nothing you can do, but if you leave them at a 75-80% charge I'm thinking that it will still have at least a 30% charge by the time you return? Yeah, Arizona is a bear when it comes to batteries. The Nissan Leafs there were experiencing battery degradation left and right because of the extreme heat and the rudimentary battery cooling systems they have. Nissan replaced more Leaf batteries under warranty in that one state than in the rest of the country combined.


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## NickWi (8 Sep 2019)

NickWi said:


> Well, it does what it says on the tin. It recharges the main battery as you ride along! I know that sounds like stating the bleeding obvious, but it does it smoothly, unobtrusively and if you didn't know it was only the main battery that could power the motor you'd swear it was the Range Extender Battery (REB from now on) doing it as the Iwoc power display on the bike stayed on White for the entire ride with the REB display slowly going through the change what's left colous as it used up its juice.
> 
> With both batteries powered up the phone app says 200%, you don't get a breakdown by battery, maybe one for the suggestion box. The bottle cage and glorified elastic band held everything in place, no rattles and I couldn't feel the extra weight when riding. Looking down to see what colour the Iwoc button on the REB became a new habit and it turned from White to Green at about 15miles. When it eventually died at 46miles (and if the button on the REB did the red flashing thing for less than 10% power left I didn't notice), but when I did noticed it had expired I stopped and looked at the power in the main battery on my phone. It said 95%. The REB could have died anytime in the last mile, but I was riding uphill on a busy and narrow country lane and I had other things to concentrate on.
> 
> ...



Just a quick update on the Range Extender Battery, but with a slight twist. I went out for a ride today but left the assistance of max assist most the time as an experiment to see how the REB coped with continuous high demand. Again not a particularly hilly ride, 36miles and 2,500ft of climbing and if being honest, not a lot to report really. As I as said above the main Iwop display on the frame stayed on White all the time and the REB recharged it without any drama. The only thing I noticed this time was that when I coasted or was going downhill the white light on the main Iwoc pulses to show it's accepting charge. Obviously it most do this all time the main battery is accepting charge and if it did that last time I didn't notice it, but the increased demand from the main battery made it more requent and therefore more noticable. Not unreasonably the REB didn't last very long today, about 25miles before it was depleted, but nonetheless an interesting experiment.

Lastly a confession, it was rather nice wafting along on full power!


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## Milkfloat (9 Sep 2019)

I am incredibly shocked that people leave air conditioning on in an empty house for 6 months.


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## Solom01 (9 Sep 2019)

Sounds incredibly wasteful, doesn't it? I guess I won't say anything about having to irrigate the lawn every month of the year.  On the other hand I don't ever have to heat the house, and the pool is usable 11 months a year. I don't know what the weather is like in the UK, but if our Canadian members left their homes unheated all winter long I'm pretty sure every single pipe in the house would burst. The joys of living on the edge.


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## Storck (9 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Sounds incredibly wasteful, doesn't it? I guess I won't say anything about having to irrigate the lawn every month of the year.  On the other hand I don't ever have to heat the house, and the pool is usable 11 months a year. I don't know what the weather is like in the UK, but if our Canadian members left their homes unheated all winter long I'm pretty sure every single pipe in the house would burst. The joys of living on the edge.



After working in Canada for one winter, I could see why they would leave the heating on. Also why I was eligible for cold weather clothing allowance.


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## Zeek48 (9 Sep 2019)

Milkfloat said:


> I am incredibly shocked that people leave air conditioning on in an empty house for 6 months.


I'm not even going to get into that debate with you. It certainly isn't because we prefer to.


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## Southernguns (10 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi folks. Quick question, can you guys confirm the battery capacity of the main battery in your Gains from the information given in the engineering mode section of the eBikemotion app? I'm a bit worried about battery longevity because even though I never let my battery go below 30% and try to not charge it to 100% the weather here is really hot and humid which is not great for lithium batteries. I keep the bike inside, but when I ride the temperature is often at or near 100 degrees F. My current capacity is 237.2 which is a bit below what it's supposed to be (but well within normal variances I guess) and it has remained at that amount since I started looking, but I was just wondering what other bikes are showing. Thanks



Just charged and checked mine - 242.2wh out of 243.3wh at 100% charge. I have not done many rides on mine, only 273 miles (possibly 15 - 18 rides). I am based in the UK so no extremes in weather conditions and I have always charged to 100% but, having read comments on here, will start charging to 80%.


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## Scaleyback (19 Sep 2019)

A rough and ready calculation but I have just charged my Gain from 23% to 85% and it took around 3 hours so around 20% of charge per hour. 
Do you guys agree with that or is the charge rate not linear ?
I use a timer these days and charge my battery when it falls to around 25% and I charge it to around 85%. 
Depending on the rides of course I get a minimum of two rides (usually more) so do not consider this charging regime too troublesome.


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## CXRAndy (19 Sep 2019)

Not linear, charge current reduces as it begins to reach 70%


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## Solom01 (19 Sep 2019)

Hi guys. This is already complicated enough. As a lawyer and not an engineer I have no clue what the answer is, but does anyone know if the BMS in this system balances the cells at the start of charging or at the end? Since the last 10% seems to take a bit of time I think it balances the cells at the end. If so, even though 100% charging is hard on the battery (and eBikemotion mentions this multiple times in their instructions) you occasionally have to do it to balance the cells. Should it be done once every 5 charges, 10 charges, once a month? I don't have a clue. Oh well, I'll think about it on my afternoon ride with a 16mph headwind. I'm happy that the terrain here is flat - but not happy that being coastal there's a constant wind that somehow or the other always seems to be a headwind. At least when you have hills there's always a downhill part to enjoy.


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## Southernguns (19 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> At least when you have hills there's always a downhill part to enjoy.


But its over so quickly!


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## G3CWI (20 Sep 2019)

I find the bluetooth pairing for my bike is very unreliable. So much so that I can't use the heart rate system. Any ideas on whre best to have the phone to keep connected? It won't work in my backpack.


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## Storck (20 Sep 2019)

G3CWI said:


> I find the bluetooth pairing for my bike is very unreliable. So much so that I can't use the heart rate system. Any ideas on whre best to have the phone to keep connected? It won't work in my backpack.



I think it really depends on the make of phone you have. My Samsung - no problem, my other a Nokia, similar issues to yours.


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## youngoldbloke (20 Sep 2019)

Storck said:


> I think it really depends on the make of phone you have. My Samsung - no problem, my other a Nokia, similar issues to yours.


I had problems with a Huawei, so much so I bought a Motorola which I only use on the Gain (with a handlebar mount), which worked well and has a long battery life. OTH, having said that, after a relatively long period of stability after the last update the app has failed on most of my recent rides. Also, it now takes minutes to load. I wish they would sort it out, especially as it is/has been promoted as a such positive feature of the EBM system.


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## G3CWI (20 Sep 2019)

Today I decided to head for the hills. 30 miles 3300ft ascent, fair amount of off-road, gradients up to 20%. 10% charge left at the end. The pairing worked this time so I was able to use the heart-rate system. That works pretty well; I rather like it! The level of assist drops noticeably as the battery discharges below about 20%

I think that's a fair range for a tough ride like that. M21.


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## Southernguns (20 Sep 2019)

G3CWI said:


> The level of assist drops noticeably as the battery discharges below about 20%



That's interesting, but makes sense I guess. I have never let mine drop that low (range anxiety hehe!).


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## Solom01 (20 Sep 2019)

Hi G3CWI, that sounds great. If you don't mind my asking, what heart rate attachment do you use? It sounds like something I'd like to try so knowing an attachment that works would be a big help. Thanks in advance.


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## G3CWI (20 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Hi G3CWI, that sounds great. If you don't mind my asking, what heart rate attachment do you use? It sounds like something I'd like to try so knowing an attachment that works would be a big help. Thanks in advance.



It was a cheap one from Halfords £20.


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## G3CWI (20 Sep 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I have never let mine drop that low



Well the bike is pretty easy to ride without the assistance so I wasn't unduly worried (and the last bit was largely downhill anyway).


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## Zeek48 (20 Sep 2019)

Southernguns said:


> But its over so quickly!


It reminds me of what I remember sex being like.


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## Storck (20 Sep 2019)

Zeek48 said:


> It reminds me of what I remember sex being like.




What's sex???


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## youngoldbloke (21 Sep 2019)

G3CWI said:


> It was a cheap one from Halfords £20.


Was it this one? Link


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## G3CWI (21 Sep 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Was it this one? Link


yes. That's it.


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## Solom01 (21 Sep 2019)

Thanks, I'm in the US so Halfords isn't available. Too bad, looking at the links they seem to have a great selection.


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## Southernguns (25 Sep 2019)

G3CWI said:


> Today I decided to head for the hills. 30 miles 3300ft ascent, fair amount of off-road, gradients up to 20%. 10% charge left at the end. The pairing worked this time so I was able to use the heart-rate system. That works pretty well; I rather like it! The level of assist drops noticeably as the battery discharges below about 20%
> 
> I think that's a fair range for a tough ride like that. M21.





G3CWI said:


> Well the bike is pretty easy to ride without the assistance so I wasn't unduly worried (and the last bit was largely downhill anyway).



Well I went out and did 29 miles up Cheddar Gorge and then pretty much all off road over the Mendips after that. 2800ft of climbing and I started with 86% battery and finished with 50%! I usually ride a mixture of road and off road but normally stick the D30 (about 15kg in weight) on the lowest power setting and just leave it there. This time, however, I decided to keep turning it on and off to see how many miles per % of battery power I could eek out of it. This sounds really stupid - but interestingly riding the D30 off road without the use of battery is a hell of a lot easier than I expected, in fact easier than when on road! This could be due to the lower speeds involved which enabled me to stay with my mate who, when on road, leaves me for dead so I am always pushing myself into the red to stay with him. Or whether I was just feeling particularly strong that day I don't know. I annoyingly forgot my HR monitor so I cannot really tell if I was putting in more effort, but it didn't feel harder than my other rides. Anyway, this leads me to think that in a few years time when the battery needs replacing, rather than replacing it I might just remove the battery and motor (lowering the weight), change the gearing to a 1x system and use the D30 as a non powered gravel bike. I'm sure technology will have moved on by then so there will be better electric bike out there to replace it with for similar sorts of money.


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## Solom01 (25 Sep 2019)

Sounds good. I'm going to give it a try if the headwinds ever die down here since I've been using the lowest level just to make up for the wind. That's yet another good thing about the Gain, when the electric part dies it can still be used as a real bike unlike the heavier ebikes. As I learned in the past buying an ebike with a battery that just snaps on isn't much help if in a couple of years when the battery needs to be replaced it's no longer available from the manufacturer. Even companies like Bosch keep changing the shape of their battery packs so that old models no longer accept the new battery pack.


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## Storck (25 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> Sounds good. I'm going to give it a try if the headwinds ever die down here since I've been using the lowest level just to make up for the wind. That's yet another good thing about the Gain, when the electric part dies it can still be used as a real bike unlike the heavier ebikes. As I learned in the past buying an ebike with a battery that just snaps on isn't much help if in a couple of years when the battery needs to be replaced it's no longer available from the manufacturer. Even companies like Bosch keep changing the shape of their battery packs so that old models no longer accept the new battery pack.



Sol, isn't there anti-trust laws in the States that should cover that scenario from not happening?


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## Solom01 (25 Sep 2019)

One would think, but basically everyone has turned an eye when it comes to "hi-tech" companies. There was a US federal law that required land-line wireless phones to have replaceable batteries - since otherwise they end up in landfills. But starting with Apple all the idiotic green nuts have no issue with using gadgets that not only have proprietary parts but are specifically built to prevent repairs by third parties. I guess no one cares about their gadgets polluting so long as they can send them off to some other country and it's not their kids pulling them apart under horribly unsafe conditions to salvage a bit of gold or copper. It's like seeing movie stars crying about poverty and climate change as they wear 100k designer dresses and fly private planes. Sorry, didn't mean to get political, but the hypocrisy is hard to take at times. If anything it's getting worse, my wife's BMW has so many specialized parts that it's next to impossible to get it serviced anywhere but a BMW dealer - and they charge insane prices.


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## Storck (25 Sep 2019)

Solom01 said:


> One would think, but basically everyone has turned an eye when it comes to "hi-tech" companies. There was a US federal law that required land-line wireless phones to have replaceable batteries - since otherwise they end up in landfills. But starting with Apple all the idiotic green nuts have no issue with using gadgets that not only have proprietary parts but are specifically built to prevent repairs by third parties. I guess no one cares about their gadgets polluting so long as they can send them off to some other country and it's not their kids pulling them apart under horribly unsafe conditions to salvage a bit of gold or copper. It's like seeing movie stars crying about poverty and climate change as they wear 100k designer dresses and fly private planes. Sorry, didn't mean to get political, but the hypocrisy is hard to take at times. If anything it's getting worse, my wife's BMW has so many specialized parts that it's next to impossible to get it serviced anywhere but a BMW dealer - and they charge insane prices.



Excellent reply, share your feelings, Ps. My BMW service, repair dealership charge £60ph labour cost.


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## CXRAndy (26 Sep 2019)

Storck said:


> Excellent reply, share your feelings, Ps. My BMW service, repair dealership charge £60ph labour cost.



Data from 2014, show BMW average repair rates of £75/hr and some London based stealers £200/hr.

So glad my car only needs servicing around 2-3 year mark when it decides. I know its going to be expensive but not the usual yearly or 10,000 mile bumf


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## Skanker (26 Sep 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Data from 2014, show BMW average repair rates of £75/hr and some London based stealers £200/hr.



That’s crazy!
I could replace my entire inboard boat engine for £400, and that includes someone removing old one and lowering new one in with a crane!


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## Tenkaykev (27 Sep 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Data from 2014, show BMW average repair rates of £75/hr and some London based stealers £200/hr.
> 
> So glad my car only needs servicing around 2-3 year mark when it decides. I know its going to be expensive but not the usual yearly or 10,000 mile bumf



My daughter worked for many years as a " Service Receptionist" for a variety of motor franchises ( Peugeot, Audi etc)

The " Service Technicians" had an allocated time for routine tasks such as servicing, the trainees would be given the simple stuff like oil changing etc.

As the jobs were so routine they could usually be completed in less than the allocated time. This made the Service Manager happy as he could book more hours, and the apprentices happy as they got a bonus related to hours booked.

( as an aside, when my daughter worked for Audi she said that the customers were in the main " lovely", but this started to change with an influx of customers switching from BMW.)


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## Mainiac (12 Oct 2019)

Greetings all. Newbie here. Lifelong rider progressing from 70's peugeot to 00's Moots to carbon roubaix. No longer able to physically climb or keep up with my homies. Rented an e-bike this summer in Victoria, BC and Banff, AB and loved the ease and distance over some glorious terrain. Both rentals were heavy, glommy and ugly but enough to convince me to go to the dark side. Hours of on line research led me to order the Gain F20. Patiently, not really, awaiting delivery. Chose the flat bar because one of my issues is poor circulation in my hands/fingers resulting in complete numbness. While I read most of the posts in this thread, I did not see any that referenced the Gain F models.

Looking forward to sharing my experiences, but still 6-7 weeks out.

Peace out and off to spin some miles on flat terrain.


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## G3CWI (12 Oct 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Greetings



Enjoying my M21i. It’s a different way of cycling.


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## Storck (12 Oct 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Greetings all. Newbie here. Lifelong rider progressing from 70's peugeot to 00's Moots to carbon roubaix. No longer able to physically climb or keep up with my homies. Rented an e-bike this summer in Victoria, BC and Banff, AB and loved the ease and distance over some glorious terrain. Both rentals were heavy, glommy and ugly but enough to convince me to go to the dark side. Hours of on line research led me to order the Gain F20. Patiently, not really, awaiting delivery. Chose the flat bar because one of my issues is poor circulation in my hands/fingers resulting in complete numbness. While I read most of the posts in this thread, I did not see any that referenced the Gain F models.
> 
> Looking forward to sharing my experiences, but still 6-7 weeks out.
> 
> Peace out and off to spin some miles on flat terrain.



Won't just be FLAT terrain. Stick it in max assist and you will get up most hills comfortably. Welcome.


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## NickWi (13 Oct 2019)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orbea-Ga...402646?hash=item1f03014b56:g:2P8AAOSwwN1dmg78
Call my suspicous if you like, and apologies all round if the above is 100% legit, but a few things raise the alarm.

Firstly the selling is advertising the bike as having a new battery (and charger). Gains come with a two year warranty and as they havn't been available in the UK for that long, why isn't the owner claiming for this under warranty? _(Unless the warranty isn't transferable to the second owner. Anyone know if it is/isn't?_).
Two, we now know the cost of a replacement battery, £180 + VAT (but the attached invoice doesn't show any labour charges and I though all Orbea electronic had to be paired & registered and that was via dealers only). 
Three, the charger is also allegedly new, but no invoice for that. What happened to the original?
The condition of the bike. Gains aren't cheap and tend not to be bought by the throw away generation, yet this seller is happy to sell it with squeaky brakes, wonky gears and admits the paintwork isn't good.
Lastly cash on collection.

Or am i just getting a suspicous and cynical old git?


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## Scaleyback (13 Oct 2019)

NickWi said " Or am i just getting a suspicous and cynical old git? "

Well, I think that is a good approach to take when buying any used bike. Are you thinking the bike may have been previously stolen ?
I doubt that, these are still pretty rare bikes and any 'legal owner' would presumably be watching ebay / gumtree etc and this bike due in no part
to it's 'hard life' is easily identifiable.
The seller, who is probably 'kosher' and sells a lot of bike related stuff would have to be wary of taking in stolen goods ?
Some makers do allow warranties to be transferred to 2nd owners but it is the exception.
I do agree that Gain's would usually be purchased by owners who would look after them, this certainly 'smacks' of a much younger owner.

I'm guessing you were just browsing and came across this and no real intention to buy ? personally I wouldn't go near it, just for the condition alone.


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## Storck (13 Oct 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> NickWi said " Or am i just getting a suspicous and cynical old git? "
> 
> Well, I think that is a good approach to take when buying any used bike. Are you thinking the bike may have been previously stolen ?
> I doubt that, these are still pretty rare bikes and any 'legal owner' would presumably be watching ebay / gumtree etc and this bike due in no part
> ...



Even if you're someone who doesn't look carefully after a bike. How does one end up looking like that?


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## Widge (13 Oct 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Greetings all. Newbie here. Lifelong rider progressing from 70's peugeot to 00's Moots to carbon roubaix. No longer able to physically climb or keep up with my homies. Rented an e-bike this summer in Victoria, BC and Banff, AB and loved the ease and distance over some glorious terrain. Both rentals were heavy, glommy and ugly but enough to convince me to go to the dark side. Hours of on line research led me to order the Gain F20. Patiently, not really, awaiting delivery. Chose the flat bar because one of my issues is poor circulation in my hands/fingers resulting in complete numbness. While I read most of the posts in this thread, I did not see any that referenced the Gain F models.
> 
> Looking forward to sharing my experiences, but still 6-7 weeks out.
> 
> Peace out and off to spin some miles on flat terrain.


Hi Mainiac,
I hope everything works out well for you with your Gain F20.......I was lucky enough to get the one I wanted instantly thanks to help from my eagle-eyed Gain aficionado friends here....but it is fairly par-for-the-course to have to order in advance and wait impatiently! I don't think Orbea can make 'em fast enough!!
I don't think think the 'F' version will really turn out to be much different to the drop-bar versions we all (mostly) ride and love? Apart from the flat bars and flat bar shifters and brakes they all follow the same design pattern as far as I can see-and certainly-mine has given me a splendid time in the few short weeks I have been riding it. After a years worth of dodgy health and advancing years it was heaven sent as I was losing the 'oomph' to wind my regular road bike up hills.
enjoy.....
And don't forget to keep us informed?

Best

Widge


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## Widge (13 Oct 2019)

NickWi said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orbea-Ga...402646?hash=item1f03014b56:g:2P8AAOSwwN1dmg78
> Call my suspicous if you like, and apologies all round if the above is 100% legit, but a few things raise the alarm.
> 
> Firstly the selling is advertising the bike as having a new battery (and charger). Gains come with a two year warranty and as they havn't been available in the UK for that long, why isn't the owner claiming for this under warranty? _(Unless the warranty isn't transferable to the second owner. Anyone if it is/isn't?_).
> ...



Yup.... As NickWi says...Gains haven't really been around long enough to wear out their new Batteries/Chargers yet -unless something went horribly wrong- and these scenarios should be covered by warranty. It is also pretty scuzzed-up for a bike that cost a lot (although this is reflected in the price) and can only be 18 months or so old at most . There are of course no rules about keeping yer bike in showroom condition! Gains aren't 'cheap' though (although they ARE good value IMO) and as such I reckon are probably molly-coddled to death by _most_ proud new owners! I don't think the warranty is transferable - but would have to re-read the small print. As far as I can make out, the electronics are closely matched and paired to individual bikes/registered owners and replacement needs to be performed and matched by authorised dealers ATM. (This is a double edged sword but potentially might work to the advantage of owners who _might_ have had one nicked....the moment a dealer plugs in his diagnostic app it will tell him who the real registered owner 'should' be?)

While I'd like to think that there could be a market in 'pukka' pre-loved 'Gains' I too would would feel a little uneasy about this one if only because it already seems to have had an unexpectedly hard life. YMMV.
Of course....it could equally well be perfectly legit and I would not like to be accused of maligning the vendor.The vendors appraisal and description seem up-front. As with anything - caveat emptor.
Widge


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## G3CWI (13 Oct 2019)

Widge said:


> I reckon are probably molly-coddled to death by _most_ proud new owners!



I’m not molly coddling mine. It’s a gravel bike and it’s being ridden as such.


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## Widge (13 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> I’m not molly coddling mine. It’s a gravel bike and it’s being ridden as such.


And quite right too! At the moment I lick mine clean after every ride and massage it with Ellimans Universal Embrocation. But I expect the novelty will soon wear off.


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## arao99 (15 Oct 2019)

As soon as a dealer or a new owner connects to the gain the original owner will get an email with coordinates to show where the bike is ,as I found out when my dealer connect his app to my bike last week.


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## Solom01 (15 Oct 2019)

Arao that's something I want aware of, it seems to be an anti- theft feature. I'm surprised Orbea doesn't mention it as a feature. Thanks for pointing this out.


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## G3CWI (19 Oct 2019)

A quick update. A few weeks in and several hundred miles on the M21i. 

The good bits: it does encourage me to tackle more hilly rides. It's a lot of fun to ride. On even moderately technical gravel the speed restriction is not a problem. It pedals well on the road without assistance if needed.

The bad bits: power delivery up very steep hills is poor. The cover for the charging point is completely inadequate - it's always full of water when I get home. Despite the advertising; it has no mudguard mounts.

I bought it to allow me to tackle hilly stuff from my motorhome where (due to the size of the vehicle) I can't park close to the riding area. It does that perfectly.


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## Scaleyback (19 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> A quick update. A few weeks in and several hundred miles on the M21i.
> The bad bits: power delivery up very steep hills is poor. The cover for the charging point is completely inadequate - it's always full of water when I get home. Despite the advertising; it has no mudguard mounts.



My take on a couple of the points you make.
The power delivery on steep hills ? I am 72 and have no complaints. This must be a subjective thing, more about the particular rider than the bikes power delivery. Remember Orbea say “ it enhances your ride, doesn’t dominate it” 
I do not ride in wet weather (given the choice), the rare times I have been caught I have never found water in the charging point.
However, I have full mudguards that do help keep water spray negligible.
Mudguard mounts on carbon frames ? I don’t think they exist on any makers bikes. Orbea should stress the point in their marketing literature,
Alloy frames only with mudguards mounts.
Enjoy your Gain.


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## Storck (19 Oct 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> My take on a couple of the points you make.
> The power delivery on steep hills ? I am 72 and have no complaints. This must be a subjective thing, more about the particular rider than the bikes power delivery. Remember Orbea say “ it enhances your ride, doesn’t dominate it”
> I do not ride in wet weather (given the choice), the rare times I have been caught I have never found water in the charging point.
> However, I have full mudguards that do help keep water spray negligible.
> ...



Agree with most you say Scaley, as they mirror my Gain experiences. Ps. You can get carbon frames that have guard fittings. My own Trek Domane has them (one reason why I choose it as a winter build) they are not obvious too. Discreetly hidden on the inside of the front and rear stays. Take the guards off and you wouldn't know they where there.


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## Southernguns (19 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> A quick update. A few weeks in and several hundred miles on the M21i...
> ... Despite the advertising; it has no mudguard mounts.


I could be wrong and will happily stand corrected but I do not think Orbea advertise mudguard mounts on their Gain (M series) carbon frames, only on their (D and F series) alloy frames. They definitely have them on my D30, although I do not make use of them. 

I certainly agree with G3CWI in that it is more fun to ride, especially on hillier rides. And it does make you more willing to tackle hilly rides. My personal experiences are somewhat similar but, at the same time, a little different (if that makes any sense). I have found my technique on hills really effects how well the bike delivers its power, and as my technique is far from good I also experience varying performances in power delivery. However, I am certain that this is down to me as a poor rider because when I really focus on a good, smooth spinning technique the performance is pretty consistent. If I try and grind a big gear up the hills, or my spinning is far from smooth, then the performance from the bike is very varied. My biggest grip however, and it is nothing to do with the bike but more to do with my cycling ability and the limiting of speed to 15.5mph, is that as soon as my mates travel over over 16 mph on flat or slightly uphill terrain I struggle to stay anywhere near them and fall further and further back until we reach the next hill. I would be keen to try the US version with the higher speed restriction.


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## Storck (19 Oct 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I could be wrong and will happily stand corrected but I do not think Orbea advertise mudguard mounts on their Gain (M series) carbon frames, only on their (D and F series) alloy frames. They definitely have them on my D30, although I do not make use of them.
> 
> I certainly agree with G3CWI in that it is more fun to ride, especially on hillier rides. And it does make you more willing to tackle hilly rides. My personal experiences are somewhat similar but, at the same time, a little different (if that makes any sense). I have found my technique on hills really effects how well the bike delivers its power, and as my technique is far from good I also experience varying performances in power delivery. However, I am certain that this is down to me as a poor rider because when I really focus on a good, smooth spinning technique the performance is pretty consistent. If I try and grind a big gear up the hills, or my spinning is far from smooth, then the performance from the bike is very varied. My biggest grip however, and it is nothing to do with the bike but more to do with my cycling ability and the limiting of speed to 15.5mph, is that as soon as my mates travel over over 16 mph on flat or slightly uphill terrain I struggle to stay anywhere near them and fall further and further back until we reach the next hill. I would be keen to try the US version with the higher speed restriction.



You're so right about the correct approach to climbing hills on the Gain. For max and smooth progress from the assist, sitting down and keeping the revs between 75/80 rpm gets the best out of the "engine"


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## G3CWI (20 Oct 2019)

Storck said:


> You're so right about the correct approach to climbing hills on the Gain. For max and smooth progress from the assist, sitting down and keeping the revs between 75/80 rpm gets the best out of the "engine"




I agree. However some of the ascents here are 20% plus and even with the gearing on the M21 I cannot keep the cadence high enough. I’m not hugely bothered as I can cycle up them anyway. Probably it’s a downside of hubdrives. The power kicks in as the gradient eases and I can recover.


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## G3CWI (20 Oct 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I could be wrong and will happily stand corrected but I do not think Orbea advertise mudguard mounts on their Gain (M series) carbon frames, only on their (D and F series) alloy frames.



Yes are probably right. However some UK resellers said the M series had mounts - sloppy cut and paste perhaps?). It does on the fork (a shared component) but not on the frame.


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## youngoldbloke (20 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> Yes are probably right. However some UK resellers said the M series had mounts - sloppy cut and paste perhaps?). It does on the fork (a shared component) but not on the frame.


P clips on the seat stays?


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## youngoldbloke (20 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> I agree. However some of the ascents here are 20% plus and even with the gearing on the M21 I cannot keep the cadence high enough. I’m not hugely bothered as I can cycle up them anyway. Probably it’s a downside of hubdrives. The power kicks in as the gradient eases and I can recover.


34T cassette?


----------



## Smudge (20 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> I agree. However some of the ascents here are 20% plus and even with the gearing on the M21 I cannot keep the cadence high enough. I’m not hugely bothered as I can cycle up them anyway. Probably it’s a downside of hubdrives. The power kicks in as the gradient eases and I can recover.



The problem on steep hills with the Gain, is more down to motor torque than how high you can get the cadence. 40nm is just not enough grunt in the motor.


----------



## Scaleyback (20 Oct 2019)

Smudge said:


> The problem on steep hills with the Gain, is more down to motor torque than how high you can get the cadence. 40nm is just not enough grunt in the motor.



Let’s finish that sentence: 40nm is just not enough grunt in the motor for me. 😜


----------



## Smudge (20 Oct 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Let’s finish that sentence: 40nm is just not enough grunt in the motor for me. 😜



Well, i obviously wasn't talking to you or about myself. I was speaking to the person who's post i quoted, the person who has problems getting up hills with this motor.


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## Scaleyback (21 Oct 2019)

Smudge said:


> Well, i obviously wasn't talking to you or about myself. I was speaking to the person who's post i quoted, the person who has problems getting up hills with this motor.



Ok, sorry, It read like a generalisation to me.


----------



## OLdNoob (22 Oct 2019)

NickWi said:


> Yeah, that's about what the chain lasted on my D20 (Sram 1x11 with a KMC chain). I replaced it with the same as I needed a quick replacement, but next time I'll look around for options. 1,000miles for a well looked after chain isn't very good in my books. I've also developed a creak, and as of today a slight knock from my bottom bracket. Again having done only 1,800miles on my Gain, not impressed.
> 
> Lastly your mechanic is getting confused between e-bike drive types. With crank driven type drives he's right, extra power IS being transmitted by the chain and that's got to take its toll. On hub driven type bikes it isn't. In fact, surely the opposite should apply. Oughtn't a hub driven bike be easier on the chain?




Hi,

Did you manage to resolve the creaking/knocking noise from your bottom bracket? 

I have the same issue on my D31.


----------



## NickWi (22 Oct 2019)

OLdNoob said:


> Hi,
> 
> Did you manage to resolve the creaking/knocking noise from your bottom bracket?
> 
> I have the same issue on my D31.


Only by having a new bottom bracket fitted. I was quite disappointed that the BB lasted less than 1800 miles, but it wasn’t expensive to replace and my local LBS did it while I waited along with a few other checks to make sure the noise wasn't coming from elswehere first. In theory I could have made a warranty claim but it’s a long way to the not so local Orbea dealer and I like to support my LBS. Since then smooth pedalling and wonderful silence.

One other comment, my LBS said my chain replacement chain was about 40% worn and that’s after about 500 mile of decent dry summer use. Other than being 1x11, so a wide chain spread I don't know why my Gain is eating chains.


----------



## arao99 (24 Oct 2019)

Storck said:


> You're so right about the correct approach to climbing hills on the Gain. For max and smooth progress from the assist, sitting down and keeping the revs between 75/80 rpm gets the best out of the "engine"


Since September My M30 will power up any hill at only 2/3 rpm hat is why I took it to my dealer who fully tested it while talking to Orbea on the phone who agreed there was nothing wrong with my bike ,they said it was set to high in mode 1,2 ,they set it to 20% in mode 1 and 70% in mode 2. 
I went out this week and turned it down to 10% in mode 1 and it seemed to ride ok there was enough power for me.


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## Scaleyback (27 Oct 2019)

Well, I don‘t use the ebikemotion app for much, just sometimes log-on after a ride to make a note of the battery condition. 
That doesn‘t appear to work anymore ? I can enter my user name/password and reach the 1st page view but I cannot get past the ‘disconnected’ state’ ? Can the rest of you still log-on ?


----------



## Storck (27 Oct 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Well, I don‘t use the ebikemotion app for much, just sometimes log-on after a ride to make a note of the battery condition.
> That doesn‘t appear to work anymore ? I can enter my user name/password and reach the 1st page view but I cannot get past the ‘disconnected’ state’ ? Can the rest of you still log-on ?



Yes, was checking out a ride I did over Easter for info, last night.


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## G3CWI (31 Oct 2019)

SKS Speedrocker mudguards were the perfect answer for my carbon Gain.


----------



## Scaleyback (1 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Well, I don‘t use the ebikemotion app for much, just sometimes log-on after a ride to make a note of the battery condition.
> That doesn‘t appear to work anymore ? I can enter my user name/password and reach the 1st page view but I cannot get past the ‘disconnected’ state’ ? Can the rest of you still log-on ?



It appears my log-on problem is with IOS devices ? android smart phones are ok. I have reported this to the ebikemotion guys.


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## Storck (1 Nov 2019)

Obrea factory sale. 25-28% off all M Gains.


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## Alongo (1 Nov 2019)

Have you got link, not coming up on my search 👍


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## Storck (1 Nov 2019)

Alongo said:


> Have you got link, not coming up on my search 👍



Was an email from Orbea under "November Things"


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## Scaleyback (1 Nov 2019)

This on tredz, £1,000 off
Don't know what they usually charge for the M21 ?


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## Storck (1 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> This on tredz, £1,000 off
> Don't know what they usually charge for the M21 ?



£3999.00 I got £400 discount last year from dealer.


----------



## youngoldbloke (1 Nov 2019)

Alongo said:


> Have you got link, not coming up on my search 👍


https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/outlet/cat


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## G3CWI (1 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> This on tredz, £1,000 off
> Don't know what they usually charge for the M21 ?



Got mine for less than £2900 from CycleRepublic.


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## Scaleyback (2 Nov 2019)

Gain D30 105 build down to £2,099 at Leisure Lakes (gulp) 
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/3...ectric-road-bike-2019-graphiteanthracite.aspx

Must be clearing out the 2019 models ?


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## Southernguns (3 Nov 2019)

I guess so because the bike pictured is the 2020 model with the paint being all black. The model they advertise (2019) will have some lighter grey areas and will probably be the model the buyer receives. 2019 image : https://www.bikester.co.uk/orbea-gain-d30-e-road-bike-black-856231.html

I believe the colour scheme is the only difference, but worth checking as I could be wrong there.


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## Storck (3 Nov 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I guess so because the bike pictured is the 2020 model with the paint being all black. The model they advertise (2019) will have some lighter grey areas and will probably be the model the buyer receives. 2019 image : https://www.bikester.co.uk/orbea-gain-d30-e-road-bike-black-856231.html
> 
> I believe the colour scheme is the only difference, but worth checking as I could be wrong there.



No, bike now comes with an ANT+ battery, there is also on the stem a bespoke computer.


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## Southernguns (4 Nov 2019)

Storck said:


> No, bike now comes with an ANT+ battery, there is also on the stem a bespoke computer.


Nice touches!!!


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## Storck (14 Nov 2019)

WHEN will the rain STOP?


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## Scaleyback (15 Nov 2019)

Storck said:


> WHEN will the rain STOP?



I think the prediction is around april 2020 

The rain doesn't really bother me Storck, while I prefer to ride outside I move into my 'pain cave' / 'man cave' / 'techno shed' (call it what you will) when I don't fancy 'braving' the elements.

I have a Tacx Neo connected to Zwift setup in my shed !  complete with TV (incl netflix) plus 'in shed' music and copious fans (essential) for 'sweat control'. I have cycled many thousands of miles over the last 3 years or so and it's brilliant. As a wise man once said, " you are unlikely to get run over by a bus when cycling in your shed "


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## Storck (15 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I think the prediction is around april 2020
> 
> The rain doesn't really bother me Storck, while I prefer to ride outside I move into my 'pain cave' / 'man cave' / 'techno shed' (call it what you will) when I don't fancy 'braving' the elements.
> 
> ...



Very nice Scaley. The way to beat "Winter Blues" I'm not so dedicated, however the rollers are under the table.


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## Zofo (23 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> I think the prediction is around april 2020
> 
> The rain doesn't really bother me Storck, while I prefer to ride outside I move into my 'pain cave' / 'man cave' / 'techno shed' (call it what you will) when I don't fancy 'braving' the elements.
> 
> ...


Impressive man cave Scaleyback !


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## Scaleyback (23 Nov 2019)

Thanks Zofo. I was born and raised in Leicestershire. Where you from ?


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## Zofo (23 Nov 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Thanks Zofo. I was born and raised in Leicestershire. Where you from ?


Hi Scaleyback ..I’m originally from Rugby but have lived in Leicester 20years now ..


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## Scaleyback (23 Nov 2019)

I lived in Sharnford a little village just off the A5 a few miles from Hinckley. I moved up to North Yorkshire in 2010. Still support Leicester city of course.


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## Storck (27 Nov 2019)

For those who want to risk it? New app update available.


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## Storck (5 Dec 2019)

Anyone notice a drop off in battery performance this last month?


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## Southernguns (7 Dec 2019)

Hardly getting out on the bike due to the weather so cannot say I have noticed - sorry.


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## Storck (8 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Hardly getting out on the bike due to the weather so cannot say I have noticed - sorry.



Same here, thanks anyway.


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## youngoldbloke (9 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Anyone notice a drop off in battery performance this last month?


What's your thinking - cold weather effect? I've hardly been out (virus), but didn't notice any difference on the short rides I managed.


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## Storck (9 Dec 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> What's your thinking - cold weather effect? I've hardly been out (virus), but didn't notice any difference on the short rides I managed.



Definitely down on distance available. I'd say 5 miles over a 55 mile ride.


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## Scaleyback (9 Dec 2019)

I guess most (all) of our bikes are kept outside in unheated garages or sheds ? mine is. I think it’s accepted knowledge that battery performance drops in colder weather. Wether it would be noticeable is another question ? I cannot say I have noticed any ‘fall off’ in performance but it wouldn’t surprise me.


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## Storck (9 Dec 2019)

Not much happening on the forum of late, so most folks now have at least a full season riding their Gains. With that experience, what are all your thoughts on the Gain? Who has plans for next year? Upgrades, Mileage targets, Tours, New bike? Would anyone buy the same again (I have two Gains) Let's communicate over these dark months and encourage each other to get out there and use the bikes.


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## jowwy (10 Dec 2019)

I was looking at the gain as a possible 3rd Ebike in the stable.........i currently have two Cube Acid Ones, Bosch Active plus motors, one with slicks and upgraded rockshox, one with schwalbe rapid robs and fox 36 kashimas

knowing that the bosch motor is 50nm at full power and the gain is 40nm at full power, with the gain being lighter and a full on roadie machine, do you think i will notice the 10nm's difference out on the road on climbs?


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## Storck (10 Dec 2019)

jowwy said:


> I was looking at the gain as a possible 3rd Ebike in the stable.........i currently have two Cube Acid Ones, Bosch Active plus motors, one with slicks and upgraded rockshox, one with schwalbe rapid robs and fox 36 kashimas
> 
> knowing that the bosch motor is 50nm at full power and the gain is 40nm at full power, with the gain being lighter and a full on roadie machine, do you think i will notice the 10nm's difference out on the road on climbs?



Obviously part of the answer depends on your fitness? My guess would be no not greatly, I don't notice much difference between my sub 7 kilo Storck when not using the motor. Obviously there is a difference but not enough for me to "huff n puff" about it, after all my Gain weighs roughly the same as a racing bike from the early 80's.


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## jowwy (10 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Obviously part of the answer depends on your fitness? My guess would be no not greatly, I don't notice much difference between my sub 7 kilo Storck when not using the motor. Obviously there is a difference but not enough for me to "huff n puff" about it, after all my Gain weighs roughly the same as a racing bike from the early 80's.


fitness isn't really an issue, but i am a big lad at 18st 4lbs.......for me i would just ensure i fitted a bigger cassette at the rear so i can spin more while using the added power gain from the gain motor

obviously thinner slicker 28/32mm tyres are a lot easier to get going than 2.2" 29er slicks and the bike overall would be around 12kgs less in weight over the cube


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## Storck (10 Dec 2019)

jowwy said:


> fitness isn't really an issue, but i am a big lad at 18st 4lbs.......for me i would just ensure i fitted a bigger cassette at the rear so i can spin more while using the added power gain from the gain motor
> 
> obviously thinner slicker 28/32mm tyres are a lot easier to get going than 2.2" 29er slicks and the bike overall would be around 12kgs less in weight over the cube



Spinning a low gear is the most efficient way to use the assist while climbing on the Gain. Given your size though, you may need a cassette lower than the 32 that comes with the Gain as standard?


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## Smudge (10 Dec 2019)

jowwy said:


> knowing that the bosch motor is 50nm at full power and the gain is 40nm at full power, with the gain being lighter and a full on roadie machine, do you think i will notice the 10nm's difference out on the road on climbs?



I think you would definitely notice a difference of 10nm of torque. My first ebike had 35nm and my current one is 45nm of torque. The difference in torque power between the two is massively noticeable.
I would think the difference of 10nm torque would be even more noticeable, when comparing crank to hub drive.


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## jowwy (10 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Spinning a low gear is the most efficient way to use the assist while climbing on the Gain. Given your size though, you may need a cassette lower than the 32 that comes with the Gain as standard?


i would be going 1x11 with a 38t front and 11/42 rear if did make that choice, thats plenty of gearing for around my area and i tend to freewheel down hill at a good pace. so a 38/11 would be enough and a 38/42 climbing gear would also be ample


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## jowwy (10 Dec 2019)

Smudge said:


> I think you would definitely notice a difference of 10nm of torque. My first ebike had 35nm and my current one is 45nm of torque. The difference in torque power between the two is massively noticeable.
> I would think the difference of 10nm torque would be even more noticeable, when comparing crank to hub drive.


bearing in mind the hills that i would ride this machine on i can do no problem without a motor, but the knee pain while doing it, takes a lot of recovery time.........so thats why i switched to E bikes in the first place. so i could carry on commuting with less pain and less recovery time required. even now i ride home in sport mode which is 40nm and some occassions when the sun is shining a ride in standard at 35nm of torque


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## Scaleyback (10 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Not much happening on the forum of late, so most folks now have at least a full season riding their Gains. With that experience, what are all your thoughts on the Gain? Who has plans for next year? Upgrades, Mileage targets, Tours, New bike? Would anyone buy the same again (I have two Gains) Let's communicate over these dark months and encourage each other to get out there and use the bikes.



Hi Storck, 
My mileage target for the year (ends 31st dec) was 4,000, as it has been for the last couple of years. to date I have logged 4,007 so target achieved and 'God willing' I shall finish between 4,200 and 4,300. Not large mileage but I'm 73 in 3 weeks and I have to save some energy for walking my dog and the 'other things in life'  I have ridden 1,678 of those miles on my D30 Orbea Gain starting from 01 mar 2019.
As was well documented here I was 'off the road' for approx 1 month due to losing 3 spokes. The total absense of any help or response to my questions from Orbea was a major disappoinment, but again this was well documented at the time.

That problem aside the bike has been brilliant, I haven't even had a puncture ! yes i realise that is down to the tyres not the bike 
The ebikemotion app seems to be an ongoing 'cock up' but I gave up using it when riding many months ago, I just log-on and check readings 
occasionally so the app idiosyncrasies do not really bother me. However Orbea should really have it sorted by now, or have they ?
So, no purchasing regrets from me, and yes i would probably buy the same again but of course the road ebike market is continually
evolving so I would need to lookaround first. 





Scaley


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## Storck (10 Dec 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Storck,
> My mileage target for the year (ends 31st dec) was 4,000, as it has been for the last couple of years. to date I have logged 4,007 so target achieved and 'God willing' I shall finish between 4,200 and 4,300. Not large mileage but I'm 73 in 3 weeks and I have to save some energy for walking my dog and the 'other things in life'  I have ridden 1,678 of those miles on my D30 Orbea Gain starting from 01 mar 2019.
> As was well documented here I was 'off the road' for approx 1 month due to losing 3 spokes. The total absense of any help or response to my questions from Orbea was a major disappoinment, but again this was well documented at the time.
> 
> ...



Happy New Year's Birthday Scaley. I'm sure you would have managed quite a bit more without the spoke problem and heavy rains you had? Agree with you about Orbea, great bike lousy support. Still they have produced ZA decent machine, that has provided lots of satisfaction for a good number of us this year. Like you I've no regrets, noW for an early Spring.


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## Mainiac (11 Dec 2019)

Brand new owner of Orbea Gain F20. Trying very hard to not be disappointed. Picked bike up yesterday from my lbs after special order. The welds are butt ugly. Yes, I ordered it sight unseen after riding Moots for 15 years, but my wife rides an orbea. What up with these welds?

Maybe more importantly, I rode 19 miles with a fair amount of hills and battery was below 50%. While as a newbie I was toggling a bit between levels but for some of the ride I was not using the assist at all.

Am I going to be limited to 40 mile rides? Can you sense my disappointment?


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## Storck (11 Dec 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Brand new owner of Orbea Gain F20. Trying very hard to not be disappointed. Picked bike up yesterday from my lbs after special order. The welds are butt ugly. Yes, I ordered it sight unseen after riding Moots for 15 years, but my wife rides an orbea. What up with these welds?
> 
> Maybe more importantly, I rode 19 miles with a fair amount of hills and battery was below 50%. While as a newbie I was toggling a bit between levels but for some of the ride I was not using the assist at all.
> 
> Am I going to be limited to 40 mile rides? Can you sense my disappointment?



Moots, even on a £1000+ alloy frame only, I have seen some basic welding finish after all it's not fillet braizing. If anyone wants a superb finished alloy frame then they have to spend big. My alloy Basso frame was £2000 beautiful smooth welds and paint finish but that's where the cash goes. I'm sure you will find the range improving most of us get at least 60 miles. I find riding a new bike for the first time strange, taking in the quirks of the bike and the strangeness of it. Takes a good few rides to sort out most comfortable and efficient position. Once it becomes a "Part of You" you will be more at home and smooth. Hope you enjoy and get plenty of use out of it?


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## Mainiac (11 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Moots, even on a £1000+ alloy frame only, I have seen some basic welding finish after all it's not fillet braizing. If anyone wants a superb finished alloy frame then they have to spend big. My alloy Basso frame was £2000 beautiful smooth welds and paint finish but that's where the cash goes. I'm sure you will find the range improving most of us get at least 60 miles. I find riding a new bike for the first time strange, taking in the quirks of the bike and the strangeness of it. Takes a good few rides to sort out most comfortable and efficient position. Once it becomes a "Part of You" you will be more at home and smooth. Hope you enjoy and get plenty of use out of it?



Appreciate the reassurance re mileage. How accurate is the projected miles on the ebikemotion app?


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## Storck (11 Dec 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Appreciate the reassurance re mileage. How accurate is the projected miles on the ebikemotion app?



I've never used it. It does appear though the higher the gear you use? The less assist is provided thus less battery usage. To get the full benifit of the motor on hills you need to ride up them using a high cadence.


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## Mainiac (11 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> I've never used it. It does appear though the higher the gear you use? The less assist is provided thus less battery usage. To get the full benifit of the motor on hills you need to ride up them using a high cadence.


I have no trouble using a high gear, my issue is using a high cadence.


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## youngoldbloke (11 Dec 2019)

In my experience - now over 2500 miles - I estimate that on a fairly flat ride 100% charge = 100km. So around 60 miles. At the end of a recent ride, a not terribly hilly 50 miles, 5% remained. I should add that due to muscle problems I can no longer ride an unassisted bike for more than very few miles, so perhaps I rely on the Gain's assistance more than many who report much better distance per charge. I've found the app pretty accurate as far as predicted range is concerned.


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## Scaleyback (11 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Moots, even on a £1000+ alloy frame only, I have seen some basic welding finish after all it's not fillet braizing. If anyone wants a superb finished alloy frame then they have to spend big.



Hmm ! I have purchased two Boardman bikes from new both £1,000 (or less) and both had beautiful smooth welds.

'Mainiac' said

" The welds are butt ugly. "

The Orbea Gain welds do not bother me at all, when you see what other makers are charging for their bikes with the same power unit I will take the " butt ugly" Gain welds sooner than an extra £1,000 + on the purchase price.

" Maybe more importantly, I rode 19 miles with a fair amount of hills and battery was below 50%. While as a newbie I was toggling a bit between levels but for some of the ride I was not using the assist at all.
Am I going to be limited to 40 mile rides? Can you sense my disappointment? "

Can you define " a fair amount of hills " do you log your rides ? most decent cycle computers will record the gradient climbed.

To show a littIe of my experience I did this ride and had 51% battery remaining. See page 6 of this thread for further details.
Distance: 40.15 miles
Time: 2:33:16
Avg Speed: 15.7 mph
Elev Gain: 2,697 ft 

I am a fit 72 year old and the bike suits me perfectly.

Sadly  I think it is going to be down to the rider, you have maybe purchased the wrong bike ? but it's early days yet, only your 1st ride ?
Do the same 19 mile ride and let us know the accumulated gradient climbed and we can relate it to our experiences.


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## Mainiac (11 Dec 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Hmm ! I have purchased two Boardman bikes from new both £1,000 (or less) and both had beautiful smooth welds.
> 
> 'Mainiac' said
> 
> ...


Just over 1k vertical feet on strava, grades 3-7%, a few short stretches were 10%. No where near your avg speed. Thanks everyone for feedback. Not my nature to overreact. And to be fair, the moots is a $6k bike.


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## youngoldbloke (12 Dec 2019)

If Mainiac is in the USA (clue: "the moots is a $6k bike") isn't the assist limit 20mph? Therefore battery use likely to be more. as the cut-off advantage will not happen until exceeding 20mph?


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## Scaleyback (12 Dec 2019)

Doh ! I missed the USA link, makes my posts pointless. Selective deletions called for. 😳


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## Storck (12 Dec 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Doh ! I missed the USA link, makes my posts pointless. Selective deletions called for. 😳



Will get the prescription sent out Scaley.


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## Captain Sensible (16 Dec 2019)

Has anybody tried pairing an iPhone 11 with the bike and app?. Worked fine with my iPhone 6 but have had no success since upgrading phone.


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## NickWi (16 Dec 2019)

Not an 11, but my 10 running IOS 13.3 connects and runs just fine.


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## Southernguns (17 Dec 2019)

Mainiac said:


> Brand new owner of Orbea Gain F20. Trying very hard to not be disappointed. Picked bike up yesterday from my lbs after special order. The welds are butt ugly. Yes, I ordered it sight unseen after riding Moots for 15 years, but my wife rides an orbea. What up with these welds?
> 
> Maybe more importantly, I rode 19 miles with a fair amount of hills and battery was below 50%. While as a newbie I was toggling a bit between levels but for some of the ride I was not using the assist at all.
> 
> Am I going to be limited to 40 mile rides? Can you sense my disappointment?


I was disappointed with my first few rides in terms of battery mileage and predicted about 60 miles of riding on a charge. However, it does vary hugely depending on how I ride the bike. Like Storck said - high cadence and lots of spinning really helps with the amount of battery use. Adjusting the amount of power used on each level (done through the app) also helps. After a few rides I found a riding style and position that works well for me and I reckon I can get about 80 miles out of a battery with about 2500ft of road climbing (5-12%), free wheeling down the steeper hills and no head wind - depending on how I feel and what mood I am in! I am in the UK so battery support ends at 15.5mph. I weigh 12.5 stone and am 45 years old with several back problems (hence the electric bike). 

In the better weather seasons I rarely ride on road and tend to stick to gravel and mountain bike trails. The mountain bike trails gives the bike a bit of a battering, especially on 33mm tyres (must upgrade to 38mm), but the bike is holding up well, although I've not done huge mileage on it yet (about 700 miles in 6 months) due to injuries, poor LBS support and poor weather. I love the bike and, as more of a runner rather than a cyclist, it's really helped me to enjoy cycling. I am now a convert. Would I buy another electric bike? In a heartbeat! Would I buy another Orbea Gain? I am not sure - Ribble's CGR is available now and seems slightly better priced and when I look at the build quality of the Orbea D30 compared to my £1000 (non electric) Trek, the Trek seems to be much superior. I am also sure other offerings will become available over the next year or two. Like Scaley, I would have to seriously look around first before making the decision, especially as Orbea seem to be a bit hit and miss with their support and my Orbea LBS seem to be VERY slow and poor with their customer care. Am I disappointed with the Orbea? Not at all - I love it and it was definitely the right purchase. I love it so much that I rarely ride my Trek now and am thinking of selling it.


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## Storck (17 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I was disappointed with my first few rides in terms of battery mileage and predicted about 60 miles of riding on a charge. However, it does vary hugely depending on how I ride the bike. Like Storck said - high cadence and lots of spinning really helps with the amount of battery use. Adjusting the amount of power used on each level (done through the app) also helps. After a few rides I found a riding style and position that works well for me and I reckon I can get about 80 miles out of a battery with about 2500ft of road climbing (5-12%), free wheeling down the steeper hills and no head wind - depending on how I feel and what mood I am in! I am in the UK so battery support ends at 15.5mph. I weight 12.5 stone and am 45 years old with several back problems (hence the electric bike).
> 
> In the better weather seasons I rarely ride on road and tend to stick to gravel and mountain bike trails. The mountain bike trails gives the bike a bit of a battering, especially on 33mm tyres (must upgrade to 38mm), but the bike is holding up well, although I've not done huge mileage on it yet (about 700 miles in 6 months) due to injuries, poor LBS support and poor weather. I love the bike and, as more of a runner rather than a cyclist, it's really helped me to enjoy cycling. I am now a convert. Would I buy another electric bike? In a heartbeat! Would I buy another Orbea Gain? I am not sure - Ribble's CGR is available now and seems slightly better priced and when I look at the build quality of the Orbea D30 compared to my £1000 (non electric) Trek, the Trek seems to be much superior. I am also sure other offerings will become available over the next year or two. Like Scaley, I would have to seriously look around first before making the decision, especially as Orbea seem to be a bit hit and miss with their support and my Orbea LBS seem to be VERY slow and poor with their customer care. Am I disappointed with the Orbea? Not at all - I love it and it was definitely the right purchase. I love it so much that I rarely ride my Trek now and am thinking of selling it.



Don't sell South? Buy a turbo and use it on that. Ten miles a day during this horrible weather will keep you "At It"


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## Southernguns (17 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Don't sell South? Buy a turbo and use it on that. Ten miles a day during this horrible weather will keep you "At It"


I have a cheap turbo trainer which I use an old hybrid bike on, although I struggle to get motivated to use it regularly. However, 10 miles a day on it sounds like a much better prospect than trying to do an hour and a half twice a week!


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## Storck (17 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I have a cheap turbo trainer which I use an old hybrid bike on, although I struggle to get motivated to use it regularly. However, 10 miles a day on it sounds like a much better prospect than trying to do an hour and a half twice a week!



That's what I do during my snooker playing season. I also set it up easy? So I average around 17mph using 70/80rpm about 80% max HR. I'm not trying to get fitter, just keeping the fitness level and muscles familiar to riding a bike. Come late Feb, I will then turn up the pressure but never more than around 30-40 mins.


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## CXRAndy (17 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Anyone notice a drop off in battery performance this last month?



If you keep the battery indoors around 21C and charge the battery to finish just before use, range will be much better.


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## Southernguns (17 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> That's what I do during my snooker playing season. I also set it up easy? So I average around 17mph using 70/80rpm about 80% max HR. I'm not trying to get fitter, just keeping the fitness level and muscles familiar to riding a bike. Come late Feb, I will then turn up the pressure but never more than around 30-40 mins.


That sounds like a much better plan, although your stats put me to shame. I average about 15.5 mph using 80-90rpm at a heart rate of 135BPM (180 minus my age).


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## Storck (17 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> That sounds like a much better plan, although your stats put me to shame. I average about 15.5 mph using 80-90rpm at a heart rate of 135BPM (180 minus my age).



Well just keep it easy. I have a fan but don't need to use it. I make sure it's an easy session, even if I don't particularly feel like doing it, I know that it isn't going to hurt. With two miles left I do raise it for half a mile. Not quite a sprint, that then gives me a good mile to spin down. I find this regiment is really beneficial also with weight control over these 3 months.


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## Southernguns (18 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Well just keep it easy. I have a fan but don't need to use it. I make sure it's an easy session, even if I don't particularly feel like doing it, I know that it isn't going to hurt. With two miles left I do raise it for half a mile. Not quite a sprint, that then gives me a good mile to spin down. I find this regiment is really beneficial also with weight control over these 3 months.


I'm liking this. I normally try and mix swimming and running into my weekly routine but injuries have really taken its toll this year so I'm struggling to do much. This would work well once I'm into the routine of doing it.


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## Storck (18 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> I'm liking this. I normally try and mix swimming and running into my weekly routine but injuries have really taken its toll this year so I'm struggling to do much. This would work well once I'm into the routine of doing it.



Whatever discipline you go with South, I hope it works for you? Put this year and it's problems behind and get sorted for next year.


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## Southernguns (22 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Anyone notice a drop off in battery performance this last month?


Well, I used my bike for the first time in a while and I went and did a 38 mile ride yesterday with the battery charged to 65% when I started. Normally the battery would be around the 20% remaining at the end of the ride, but yesterday it was at 5% and the Woc light was flashing red and I had no power for the remaining half a mile home. The battery level dropped from 25% remaining to 5% incredibly quickly (in less that 3 miles!). The temperature was about 7 - 9 degrees and I was using level 1 (green) on the Woc for 99% of the ride and climbed 1250ft. This is a huge drop off in battery performance compared to what I usually see.



Scaleyback said:


> I guess most (all) of our bikes are kept outside in unheated garages or sheds ?


Of course this could be the reason why maybe?

On a positive note - the amount of water, and even floods that I carefully and slowly rode through, had no effect on the electrics at all!


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## Storck (22 Dec 2019)

Southernguns said:


> Well, I used my bike for the first time in a while and I went and did a 38 mile ride yesterday with the battery charged to 65% when I started. Normally the battery would be around the 20% remaining at the end of the ride, but yesterday it was at 5% and the Woc light was flashing red and I had no power for the remaining half a mile home. The battery level dropped from 25% remaining to 5% incredibly quickly (in less that 3 miles!). The temperature was about 7 - 9 degrees and I was using level 1 (green) on the Woc for 99% of the ride and climbed 1250ft. This is a huge drop off in battery performance compared to what I usually see.
> 
> 
> Of course this could be the reason why maybe?
> ...



Bet you was glad to get out? That is a huge drop, I wouldn't have thought the temperature was that particularly cold also? No way could I envisage buying a electric car in our northern reaches.


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## youngoldbloke (22 Dec 2019)

No noticeable drop in battery performance recently, but I've only managed a few short rides in the past 6 weeks, due to 'flu-like illness'. For the first 3 weeks the bike was left fully charged, as I'd intended a ride only to be struck down by the virus. However my Gain lives indoors, in the warm, along with my other bikes in the study. Now over 2500 miles total from new.


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## Storck (22 Dec 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> No noticeable drop in battery performance recently, but I've only managed a few short rides in the past 6 weeks, due to 'flu-like illness'. For the first 3 weeks the bike was left fully charged, as I'd intended a ride only to be struck down by the virus. However my Gain lives indoors, in the warm, along with my other bikes in the study. Now over 2500 miles total from new.



Hope you're on the mend Young?


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## Scaleyback (22 Dec 2019)

Yes, I concur with Storck. Hope you (youngoldbloke) are feeling better ? pretty 'crabby' if you re under the weather at Christmas.

On a different note, it seems the ebikemotion's site has been unreachable all day ! how long has this been going on ? I cannot logon with the bike app or reach the site on my PC.
Have they made their fortune and moved out ?


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## Storck (22 Dec 2019)

Scaleyback said:


> Yes, I concur with Storck. Hope you (youngoldbloke) are feeling better ? pretty 'crabby' if you re under the weather at Christmas.
> 
> On a different note, it seems the ebikemotion's site has been unreachable all day ! how long has this been going on ? I cannot logon with the bike app or reach the site on my PC.
> Have they made their fortune and moved out ?



Out delivering presents to all their users? No maybe not.


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## youngoldbloke (22 Dec 2019)

Thanks - almost over it now. Doc thought flu strain not protected against by this years jab. 
Just tried the Orbea dashboard - all OK, after refreshing first attempt.


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## youngoldbloke (30 Dec 2019)

Storck said:


> Anyone notice a drop off in battery performance this last month?


Since my last post, and my post in September (610) about this I checked my battery figures and it appears I've lost almost 10% of the original 250wh capacity in a relatively short period of time. Today the figures (as in the engineering section of app) were: 225.3/225.7 at 100% charge. My potential range has also dropped from 80 to 75 km on the app. So it seems a significant fall since then. As I said above, early November after a long ride using 94% charge I had fully charged the bike, intending to ride the next day. I was then out of action due to a viral infection, the result being the battery was left fully charged for 3 weeks. Would this result in the drop in capacity?


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## Pale Rider (30 Dec 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Since my last post, and my post in September (610) about this I checked my battery figures and it appears I've lost almost 10% of the original 250wh capacity in a relatively short period of time. Today the figures (as in the engineering section of app) were: 225.3/225.7 at 100% charge. My potential range has also dropped from 80 to 75 km on the app. So it seems a significant fall since then. As I said above, early November after a long ride using 94% charge I had fully charged the bike, intending to ride the next day. I was then out of action due to a viral infection, the result being the battery was left fully charged for 3 weeks. Would this result in the drop in capacity?



The battery will lose capacity over time if left fully charged.

Usual advice is not to store the battery long term fully charged because a full charge stresses the cells and can damage them if left.

I doubt three weeks is long enough to cause any permanent damage.


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## Scaleyback (31 Dec 2019)

Another (cycling) year ends. 
I'm a pretty 'anal' guy,  I log all my rides via my Garmin Edge 130 onto Garmin connect.
Mileage target is usually 4,000 miles minimum and I have reached that for the last few years with a best of 5,300 in 2016-2017. 
4,228 miles this year  Not a large mileage but I have to leave some energy for 'my other life'
1,750 miles of this total has been on my Orbea Gain D30 new from 28th Feb 2019. Apart from a problem obtaining a few new spokes
my Gain has been really excellent. The icing on the cake ? not a single puncture during this time (but I do have sealant in my tubes )
Happy New Year and especially good health to all members. Hope to hear from you in 2020.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2019)

My wife's battery on her kit ebike did the same. It was quite low when we set off but rapidly dropped under the demand of a small hill. Then dead instantly a few yards later.

Best start ride fully charged


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## Scaleyback (8 Jan 2020)

Can any one help and advise this silly old man please ?
I enclose 2 pictures of what I believe is a 'retaining clip' for the excess cable on the front mech of my Gain D30 (Shimano 105 groupset)
The other day while wiping off some 'crud' it seems i caught the cloth in this clip and 'sprung it loose' from it's resting place ?
For the life of me I cannot find where this clip 'belongs' and I have had a greater brain working on this (my wife)  I don't think anything is broken and I assume it is designed to clip back somewhere.
In it's current state my foot catches the cable excess with every pedal rotation ! so bloody annoying. Do you have one the same ? if so a picture of it in it's 'resting'place would be much appreciated.
P.S The black plastic clip slides up/down the excess cable freely.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Jan 2020)

Does this help? Is it the 'link cover A' https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf
edit: pages15 on esp p21?


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## Scaleyback (8 Jan 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Does this help? Is it the 'link cover A' https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf
> edit: pages15 on esp p21?



Brilliant Peter, yep, 'link cover A' seems to be the baby. Many thanks. Will try again tomorrow when I have some daylight.


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## robgul (8 Jan 2020)

I got caught out with the new style cable stuff on the Ultegra front mech when I built my bike at PlanetX (not ebike) - a bit of a fiddle to understand (and don't cut the cable too short . . . I did and had to fit a new one) - that said it's quite neat once it's installed.

Rob


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## El Yako (17 Feb 2020)

Before I have a far trickier convo with the wife regarding costs, I did want to trouble you guys with a newb question...can any of you make a stab at quantifying how much less effort is required on hills with the Gain? I have a fine range of ills, recovering from cancer, hypertension, Achilles tendonitis and a torn meniscus (do I get any prizes? :-)) AND am 120kg/19st. I need some help riding hills! I'm a life-long heavy rider, previously pretty fit (riding a road bike at 110kg at 16-18mph avg ...and some long distance bikepacking). I want to recover and lose weight but can't get up any hills at all right now due to fatigue. With my weight I'd like around a 20% boost on 10pc/5km hill...happy to cut ride time down overall if I need full assist...is this something you think the Gain could provide?


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## robgul (17 Feb 2020)

El Yako said:


> Before I have a far trickier convo with the wife regarding costs, I did want to trouble you guys with a newb question...can any of you make a stab at quantifying how much less effort is required on hills with the Gain? I have a fine range of ills, recovering from cancer, hypertension, Achilles tendonitis and a torn meniscus (do I get any prizes? :-)) AND am 120kg/19st. I need some help riding hills! I'm a life-long heavy rider, previously pretty fit (riding a road bike at 110kg at 16-18mph avg ...and some long distance bikepacking). I want to recover and lose weight but can't get up any hills at all right now due to fatigue. With my weight I'd like around a 20% boost on 10pc/5km hill...happy to cut ride time down overall if I need full assist...is this something you think the Gain could provide?



YES

Rob


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## Storck (17 Feb 2020)

El Yako said:


> Before I have a far trickier convo with the wife regarding costs, I did want to trouble you guys with a newb question...can any of you make a stab at quantifying how much less effort is required on hills with the Gain? I have a fine range of ills, recovering from cancer, hypertension, Achilles tendonitis and a torn meniscus (do I get any prizes? :-)) AND am 120kg/19st. I need some help riding hills! I'm a life-long heavy rider, previously pretty fit (riding a road bike at 110kg at 16-18mph avg ...and some long distance bikepacking). I want to recover and lose weight but can't get up any hills at all right now due to fatigue. With my weight I'd like around a 20% boost on 10pc/5km hill...happy to cut ride time down overall if I need full assist...is this something you think the Gain could provide?



Again yes, but it will have to be the D (alloy) Gain for you. As a help to your losing weight? Weight loss is a level 1 ride. So don't go hard. You should be able to hold a conversation while riding. Any harder and you're into muscle building territory not fat burning. The secret is easy steady rides, without getting into a sweat and fatigued.


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## El Yako (17 Feb 2020)

Nice bit of positivity there, many thanks, it's what I needed. How are older Gain battery packs holding up? I've noticed there are a few 2017 and 18 Gains appearing secondhand at c.1300GBP? Might appease my wife if a second mortgage can be avoided!


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## Storck (17 Feb 2020)

El Yako said:


> Nice bit of positivity there, many thanks, it's what I needed. How are older Gain battery packs holding up? I've noticed there are a few 2017 and 18 Gains appearing secondhand at c.1300GBP? Might appease my wife if a second mortgage can be avoided!



My mid 2018 Gains batery is still doing very well. Got about 3200 miles on it. Still easily get 50 miles out of a single charge. Then again, it's never been stored in a cold environment over night or winter.


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## El Yako (18 Feb 2020)

Storck said:


> Again yes, but it will have to be the D (alloy) Gain for you. As a help to your losing weight? Weight loss is a level 1 ride. So don't go hard. You should be able to hold a conversation while riding. Any harder and you're into muscle building territory not fat burning. The secret is easy steady rides, without getting into a sweat and fatigued.





Storck said:


> My mid 2018 Gains batery is still doing very well. Got about 3200 miles on it. Still easily get 50 miles out of a single charge. Then again, it's never been stored in a cold environment over night or winter.


Again, thank you. It seems 2nd hand is viable, then. And finally (for now, no doubt!) a M seems the correct choice for a 6footer with stumpy legs? Sitting here with a smile on my face thinking this is on!


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## Storck (18 Feb 2020)

El Yako said:


> Again, thank you. It seems 2nd hand is viable, then. And finally (for now, no doubt!) a M seems the correct choice for a 6footer with stumpy legs? Sitting here with a smile on my face thinking this is on!



An "M" would be fine. I'm six foot and it fits fine. The sizing comes out slightly larger than you would normally expect. The alloy Gain has a longer top tube and different angles to the carbon Gain. On my carbon I have a laid back seat tube. On the alloy Gain, its a no set back seat pin. I've seen new 2019 D Gain models going for around £1400. There could well be dealers with them still in or a demo model maybe?


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## Zofo (2 Mar 2020)

I have to say I’m very unimpressed with the battery life on my M3. Previously when I purchased the bike back in May I was getting a good 55 to 60 miles out of the full charge. Just went out today and barely got 38 miles before the lights were flashing at me and power is significantly down. Anyone else having similar issues?


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## Storck (2 Mar 2020)

Zofo said:


> I have to say I’m very unimpressed with the battery life on my M3. Previously when I purchased the bike back in May I was getting a good 55 to 60 miles out of the full charge. Just went out today and barely got 38 miles before the lights were flashing at me and power is significantly down. Anyone else having similar issues?



Don't forget the outside temperature will effect battery performance. Also how have you been storing the bike this winter? If in a cold environment, this will have a huge effect on the battery. Mine are kept in a heated room during the winter months. With no degradation to speak of.


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## youngoldbloke (2 Mar 2020)

Zofo said:


> I have to say I’m very unimpressed with the battery life on my M3. Previously when I purchased the bike back in May I was getting a good 55 to 60 miles out of the full charge. Just went out today and barely got 38 miles before the lights were flashing at me and power is significantly down. Anyone else having similar issues?


Have you been leaving it fully charged? My battery lost capacity after it was unavoidably left fully charged. See posts 748/749 above


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## Zofo (2 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> Don't forget the outside temperature will effect battery performance. Also how have you been storing the bike this winter? If in a cold environment, this will have a huge effect on the battery. Mine are kept in a heated room during the winter months. With no degradation to speak of.


I have left it fully charged in my garage - nowhere else to leave it.


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## Zofo (2 Mar 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Have you been leaving it fully charged? My battery lost capacity after it was unavoidably left fully charged. See posts 748/749 above


I have left it fully charged for a couple of weeks in between rides - performance has dropped significantly.


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## Storck (3 Mar 2020)

Zofo said:


> I have left it fully charged in my garage - nowhere else to leave it.



Ah, leaving a battery fully charged and then not using it straight away will definitely degrade the battery. Only charge to 80% if leaving standing. A cold garage, shed etc over winter will not be kind to any battery. If your bike has been stored like this over Winter? Then yes, battery performance and life span would be effected.


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## youngoldbloke (3 Mar 2020)

Would be good if Orbea made this clear in their 'instructions' leaflets.


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## Storck (3 Mar 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Would be good if Orbea made this clear in their 'instructions' leaflets.



Couldn't agree more.


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## Zofo (4 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> Ah, leaving a battery fully charged and then not using it straight away will definitely degrade the battery. Only charge to 80% if leaving standing. A cold garage, shed etc over winter will not be kind to any battery. If your bike has been stored like this over Winter? Then yes, battery performance and life span would be effected.


I think it’s very remiss of Orbea not to even mention a 20% drop off in battery life if a bike is not stored in a heated space. Most people will leave a bike in an un heated garage or shed and indeed this will effect most owners of e bikes. I’m not impressed at all and think have been misled .


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## Zofo (4 Mar 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Would be good if Orbea made this clear in their 'instructions' leaflets.


Absolutely correct - most bikes will be left fully charged and in a cold garage or shed. Orbea and indeed all Ebike manufactures should be making it very clear that performance and battery life will be seriously compromised .


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## Zofo (4 Mar 2020)

arao99 said:


> Since September My M30 will power up any hill at only 2/3 rpm hat is why I took it to my dealer who fully tested it while talking to Orbea on the phone who agreed there was nothing wrong with my bike ,they said it was set to high in mode 1,2 ,they set it to 20% in mode 1 and 70% in mode 2.
> I went out this week and turned it down to 10% in mode 1 and it seemed to ride ok there was enough power for me.


Hi just noticed your post and was very interested to hear what Orbea suggested re mapping of power levels. I’ve previously just had all 3 set at 100% and wondered if altering them would make significant difference to battery range. How have you been getting on with it ?


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## Scaleyback (5 Mar 2020)

Zofo said " _I think it’s very remiss of Orbea not to even mention a 20% drop off in battery life if a bike is not stored in a heated space. "_
I have never seen it stated 'officially' that the battery will suffer if stored in an unheated space ? Yes, it is accepted that these batteries should not be stored fully charged for long periods. Frankly if the battery needs storing at room temps ? then it need to be a removable battery. Surely most of us keep our bikes in an unheated shed/garage ?
My bike hasn't been ridden since 6 feb, combination of poor weather and a painful shoulder. It is stored in an unheated garage but the battery is only at 55%.
Incidentally Zofo, my battery levels have long been set at 90%/80%/70% (low/med/high power) I cannot comment on " significant difference to battery range " that would take some serious repeated testing over the same course/conditions to quantify. Of course it will mean more input from the rider ergo more range from the battery.


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## Storck (8 Mar 2020)

First outdoor ride of the year this weekend. 78 miles, 50 of them with no assist, then when the power went on! Oooh how I've missed riding my Gain. Only spoilt by? Me, forgetting to check the battery level on the Di2. Down to two gears for the final 15 miles. Still good to be back at it outdoors.


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## SteveBN (9 Mar 2020)

Has anyone else had a problem with not being able to turn their Gain on. I've had mine for 18 month or so and recently it's developed this issue. I've been able to fix it by plugging the charger in (light comes on) then leaving it for a minute or so before going out on a ride. However, today I left home with a 100% charge but then stopped off for 5 minutes or so. When I tried to turn the bike back on it failed to do so, so ended up riding/pushing the 25 miles back home with it switched off. Painful. Plugged it in when I finally arrived , light came on straight away and app shows battery still has 81% charge!


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## Scaleyback (12 Mar 2020)

I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has a problem with their Orbea Gain wheels.
To recap: purchased on 27/2/2019 my Gain D30 has completed 1,846 miles. 
The wheel rims (Ready GR) are suffering very unsightly corrosion (see pictures) 











Now I do not ride in snow or icy conditions, I don't even ride in the rain given the choice but I have been caught a few times.
The bike is stored in a dry weatherproof garage and always wiped down after a ride if wet or dirty.
Looking like this after one year I hate to think what they will look like further down the road ?
The retailer (LeisureLakes) has these pictures and is going to contact Orbea.
I believe these 'Ready GR' rims are cheap and nasty with a finish 'not fit for purpose' 
I'm hoping Orbea's 'legenday'  aftersales will 'see me right'
Watch this space.


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## Storck (12 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has a problem with their Orbea Gain wheels.
> To recap: purchased on 27/2/2019 my Gain D30 has completed 1,846 miles.
> The wheel rims (Ready GR) are suffering very unsightly corrosion (see pictures)
> View attachment 508108
> ...


ÀÂ

You're correct Scaley. Cheap Chinese rims. Mine are not showing any of that yet. The bike is older, but don't use it as much as you do. Good luck with Orbea. But then you know what they are like?


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## Scaleyback (12 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> ÀÂ
> 
> You're correct Scaley. Cheap Chinese rims. Mine are not showing any of that yet. The bike is older, but don't use it as much as you do. Good luck with Orbea. But then you know what they are like?



Do you have the same rims DJ ?
I believe the higher 'spec' bikes have Mavic rims don't they ?
Of course if I get no help from Orbea I cannot easily buy new rims myself because i would need the hub motor re-fitting !


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## Storck (12 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Do you have the same rims DJ ?
> I believe the higher 'spec' bikes have Mavic rims don't they ?
> Of course if I get no help from Orbea I cannot easily buy new rims myself because i would need the hub motor re-fitting !



They look exactly the same Scaley. If you recall I have a D Gain along with a carbon model. The only difference is I have yellow and orange graphic on the side of the rim. I believe this was applied on the 2018 model which mine is. It matches the frame colour.


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## youngoldbloke (12 Mar 2020)

Mine has the same rims - Rodi GR. No sign of corrosion. Well over 2000 miles in all weathers. Looks like you got the 'Friday afternoon' rims.


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## Scaleyback (12 Mar 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Mine has the same rims - Rodi GR. No sign of corrosion. Well over 2000 miles in all weathers. Looks like you got the 'Friday afternoon' rims.



This is not fair, I want you all to suffer with me. 
Seriously, thanks for the replies. It must be North Yorkshires acid rain  not that I have been cycling in it much. Maybe I can get some Mavic rims out of Orbea ? ever the optimist.


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## youngoldbloke (13 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> This is not fair, I want you all to suffer with me.
> Seriously, thanks for the replies. It must be North Yorkshires acid rain  not that I have been cycling in it much. Maybe I can get some Mavic rims out of Orbea ? ever the optimist.


I swapped the front wheel on mine for an Aksium anyway.


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## Scaleyback (13 Mar 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> I swapped the front wheel on mine for an Aksium anyway.



Yes, I could swap the front wheel, unfortunately it is not nearly as ‘bad’ as the rear wheel. I guess if I could ‘wrangle’ some replacement wheels ( unlikely ?) they would swap the hub motor over, or just replace the whole wheel, thoughts ?


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## harrisc (14 Mar 2020)

Last month I received my Orbea Gain M20i. I have Mavic aluminium UST wheels and Mavic UST 700 x 28c Tubeless tyres, but with tubes. (I do not know if Orbea or my LBS supplied the tubes). I am in Australia and the Gain is speed limited to 25 kph.

The 2020 model seems to have 2 main differences
1. The motor now has Bluetooth and Ant+ connectivity
2. The bike is supplied with a “Orbea coachsmart” display on an integrated mount.

I think the display is this https://www.o-synce-shop.de/shop/en/bike-computers/coachsmart/105/coachsmart-lev. It connects to the motor by Ant+. The display shows the current speed, the total odometer reading of the motor, the current trip distance, current trip time and the battery level. I can also change the assistance level for L0 to L3 by the use of the 2 buttons. The currently selected assistance level is also displayed using the symbols that are typically used on bicycle computers to show if speed is average, below average or above average.

I find the display very useful. I normally only use the iWoc ONE to turn the bike off/on.

The integrated mount is plastic and comes from the head stem. It uses a Garmin mount (there were other adaptors included). I found that if I don’t turn on the motor first and then the coachsmart, the odometer is not always displayed.

I am 69 years old and am a regular rider; normally about 50 km at a time, 4 or 5 times a week. The rides are either bunch rides on the “flat” sitting about 32 kph or in the Adelaide Hills (used for the Tour Down Under). These days I have some fatigue and do not have enough endurance to comfortably complete the hills rides; hence the Orbea Gain. To date I have done about 400 km.

I have set the assistance levels to L1 40%, L2 70% and L3 100%. I generally leave the motor on L1 at all times and turn up assistance if needed.

I love the Gain for the hills rides. When with acquaintances, I use L1 and I can keep up with them, but I still am working hard, but I don't get completely exhausted. If I ride in the hills on my own, I might use more assistance to go faster and further!

I tried the bike for the flat rides, but I mainly using my old bike. With the Gain, generally I can keep up with everyone, even though the motor only works when starting off. The only time I have an issue when the road has a gentle long incline. On my normal road bike I can sit on 26 to 30 kph. With the extra weight of the Gain I cannot keep up the speed of the other riders; I drop back to 25/26 kph with motor assistance.

Overall, I love the Orbea Gain M20i

Chris
Adelaide
Australia


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## Storck (14 Mar 2020)

harrisc said:


> Last month I received my Orbea Gain M20i. I have Mavic aluminium UST wheels and Mavic UST 700 x 28c Tubeless tyres, but with tubes. (I do not know if Orbea or my LBS supplied the tubes). I am in Australia and the Gain is speed limited to 25 kph.
> 
> The 2020 model seems to have 2 main differences
> 1. The motor now has Bluetooth and Ant+ connectivity
> ...



Hi Chris, Orbea supplied the tubes. They are quite heavy, replacing them will improve your rolling resistance. I too have an M20i love the Di2 so much I put it on my other 2 bikes last year. Welcome.


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## harrisc (20 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> Hi Chris, Orbea supplied the tubes. They are quite heavy, replacing them will improve your rolling resistance.



I did replace the supplied Kenda 700c x 38/32 with Schwalbe SV15 700c x 18/28. They were only about 20 grams lighter, but I do think the ride was smoother! 

As the supplied rims and tubes are tubeless ready, has anyone tired the Gain M20i as tubeless?

Chris


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## Storck (20 Mar 2020)

harrisc said:


> I did replace the supplied Kenda 700c x 38/32 with Schwalbe SV15 700c x 18/28. They were only about 20 grams lighter, but I do think the ride was smoother!
> 
> As the supplied rims and tubes are tubeless ready, has anyone tired the Gain M20i as tubeless?
> 
> Chris



Was thinking about it? Decided after looking into it, to stay with what I know. Anyway tyres are so good now, I've only had two flats in the last 12 years. One overnight, and the other just as I reached my mates house.


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## harrisc (22 Mar 2020)

While I am enjoying my Gain,I am getting confused about the power levels set on Level 1 to 3. I understand that the maximum power for each level is set by Orbea and the amount of assistance reduces from level 3 to level 1. I also understand that the user can set a percentage reduction of each of those levels by the ebikeMotion user app on a mobile phone.

I also understand that the motor maps ( percentage power available at each power levels at 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 kph are set by Orbea and not adjustable by the end user.

*Problem*
The output of my engine does not seem have any significant difference between level 2 and level 3. I have measured the motor parameters using the ebikeMotion app on my Android mobile phone. For example I set the engine maximum power levels for level 1, 2 & 3 at 100%. I then did a test ride. The data is also available at https://www.ebikemotion.com/app/route.php?url_shared=a4c2ae84c57d8aca714e3fbc34771ec9dca847f0

It can be seem that the maximum power at level 1 is about 100 to 110 watts. When level 2 is used, the maximum power provided is about 240 to 250 watts. At level 3 the maximum power supplied was 224 watts. At about the same speed , the power provided at level 2 seems to be more than that provided at level 3!!

There seems to be a problem in the way the power levels have been set by Orbea?

I would like answers to the following questions!
1. What is the maximum power levels for each of level 1, 2 & 3 as set by Orbea?
2. What is the power motor map as set by Orbea of each power levels 1, 2 & 3 and for each speed 5, 10, 15, 20 & 25 kph?
3. How do I check motor what Maximum power of each level is actually set at and how do I check the Motor Maps?
4. If the maximum power settings for each level or the motor maps are set incorrectly, how do I fix these?

Regards
Chris


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## Southernguns (22 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has a problem with their Orbea Gain wheels.
> To recap: purchased on 27/2/2019 my Gain D30 has completed 1,846 miles.
> The wheel rims (Ready GR) are suffering very unsightly corrosion...


Hi Scaley, sorry for late reply but I have been ill (not Covid19, thankfully). I have the same wheels as you and I have no issues with corrosion (yet!). That being said, my wheels have covered no where near as many miles as yours (about 700), but the majority of mine have been off road over rocky, gravelly, wet, muddy, dusty... terrain (you get the picture). I have even ridden them through floods up to the bottom bracket. I'm sure mine will eventually go the same way as yours, but currently they appear okay.


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## Scaleyback (22 Mar 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Hi Scaley, sorry for late reply but I have been ill (not Covid19, thankfully). I have the same wheels as you and I have no issues with corrosion (yet!). That being said, my wheels have covered no where near as many miles as yours (about 700), but the majority of mine have been off road over rocky, gravelly, wet, muddy, dusty... terrain (you get the picture). I have even ridden them through floods up to the bottom bracket. I'm sure mine will eventually go the same way as yours, but currently they appear okay.



Hi Neil, thanks for taking the time to answer.
I haven’t heard from anyone, here or elsewhere who is having similar problems with their rims as I am. Some have older bikes than me and have completed higher mileage. If it is something I have done/am doing then I don’t have a clue what that could be. My Orbea dealer has submitted my ‘case’ to Orbea and I wait . . . . and wait . . . . ?


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## Storck (22 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Neil, thanks for taking the time to answer.
> I haven’t heard from anyone, here or elsewhere who is having similar problems with their rims as I am. Some have older bikes than me and have completed higher mileage. If it is something I have done/am doing then I don’t have a clue what that could be. My Orbea dealer has submitted my ‘case’ to Orbea and I wait . . . . and wait . . . . ?



Wasn't your bike subject to floods last year?


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## Southernguns (22 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Neil, thanks for taking the time to answer.
> I haven’t heard from anyone, here or elsewhere who is having similar problems with their rims as I am. Some have older bikes than me and have completed higher mileage. If it is something I have done/am doing then I don’t have a clue what that could be. My Orbea dealer has submitted my ‘case’ to Orbea and I wait . . . . and wait . . . . ?


Orbea are not the fastest are they? I had to wait ages for my bent frame to be sorted.


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## Scaleyback (23 Mar 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Orbea are not the fastest are they? I had to wait ages for my bent frame to be sorted.



I guess this CV situation isn’t going to help and Orbea surely have more to worry about than my bike rims so whatever will be . . . will be.


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## Storck (23 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I guess this CV situation isn’t going to help and Orbea surely have more to worry about than my bike rims so whatever will be . . . will be.



Today I begin my 3 months of isolation been a transplant recipient. Hoping it won't be too bad? I'm going to be living in my snooker room. Apart from the table to keep my busy, I have my indoor trainer hooked up to the TV. The usual Prime TV and Alexa Music on the HiFi. Also have my own toilet, washing facilities and kitchen. No windows though, so a stroll around the courtyard will be a must. I recognise I will have it easier than many folks. Here's wishing the other's in a similar position a safe journey. See ya all out on the road later.


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## Scaleyback (23 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> Today I begin my 3 months of isolation been a transplant recipient. Hoping it won't be too bad? I'm going to be living in my snooker room. Apart from the table to keep my busy, I have my indoor trainer hooked up to the TV. The usual Prime TV and Alexa Music on the HiFi. Also have my own toilet, washing facilities and kitchen. No windows though, so a stroll around the courtyard will be a must. I recognise I will have it easier than many folks. Here's wishing the other's in a similar position a safe journey. See ya all out on the road later.



Tough times for you DJ but you seem to have a great environment to self-isolate in. Sounds like your excellent snooker skills may reach even higher levels after 3 months solid practice ?
Stay safe pal and keep communicating.


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## Storck (23 Mar 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Tough times for you DJ but you seem to have a great environment to self-isolate in. Sounds like your excellent snooker skills may reach even higher levels after 3 months solid practice ?
> Stay safe pal and keep communicating.



Thanks Scaley, I'm gonna need to re-cloth it, by the time this crisis is over? Stay safe.


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## Southernguns (24 Mar 2020)

Storck said:


> Today I begin my 3 months of isolation been a transplant recipient. Hoping it won't be too bad? I'm going to be living in my snooker room. Apart from the table to keep my busy, I have my indoor trainer hooked up to the TV. The usual Prime TV and Alexa Music on the HiFi. Also have my own toilet, washing facilities and kitchen. No windows though, so a stroll around the courtyard will be a must. I recognise I will have it easier than many folks. Here's wishing the other's in a similar position a safe journey. See ya all out on the road later.


Just stay safe Storck, and that goes for everyone out there during these terrible times! I would say keep in touch via the forums for the benefit of your mental state, but we'd probably drive each other insane before the isolation and boredom does ..


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## Storck (26 Mar 2020)

Ebikemotion App update available for android user's.


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## Storck (20 Apr 2020)

Four weeks now under lockdown. How are you all managing, any new regime's etc.


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## youngoldbloke (20 Apr 2020)

More miles on the bike now than pre lockdown - mostly weather related in reality. Local circuit everyday. Also therapeutic walk everyday, as prescribed, to get blood moving in my legs. We are both over 70 with 'underlying health issues', so have been self isolating since before lockdown anyway, but hate now having to rely on others for shopping, and miss seeing family and grandchildren, as had been planned. Lots of gardening getting done too!
Proposed house sale and relocation now put on hold, half way through the process - worrying times …..


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## Storck (20 Apr 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> More miles on the bike now than pre lockdown - mostly weather related in reality. Local circuit everyday. Also therapeutic walk everyday, as prescribed, to get blood moving in my legs. We are both over 70 with 'underlying health issues', so have been self isolating since before lockdown anyway, but hate now having to rely on others for shopping, and miss seeing family and grandchildren, as had been planned. Lots of gardening getting done too!
> Proposed house sale and relocation now put on hold, half way through the process - worrying times …..



Could just about describe my existence at the moment, apart from lots of snooker also. I have a feeling for some of us, it's going to be longer than another 8 weeks. Country has at some point got to get back to work. Another plan (radical) to look after and encourage the vulnerable may have to be prescribed. Keep on trucking Young (as we you to say in the 70's) Good to hear from ya.


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## Tifosi58 (22 Apr 2020)

harrisc said:


> I did replace the supplied Kenda 700c x 38/32 with Schwalbe SV15 700c x 18/28. They were only about 20 grams lighter, but I do think the ride was smoother!
> 
> As the supplied rims and tubes are tubeless ready, has anyone tired the Gain M20i as tubeless?
> 
> Chris


I have the M20 with Mavic Aksium UST rims and tubeless tyres as delivered with tubes and rode it to my first puncture (back wheel of course). Decided riding a bike with tubeless capability and tubes was not sensible. So took out the tubes and added the Orange sealant/new valves and took to the road. Impressions: ride comfort improved (was 110 now 85lb) and no punctures that stopped me in 6 months. Although I have had 'puncture' incidents, where I saw the sealant come out of the tyre, but it stayed pressurized. I have not had to change a tire yet, so cannot comment on clean up. Do have to replenish sealant, but not an issue - pull out valve, add sealant, replace valve, pump up tyre and ride. Leaks about 5lb in a week.


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## harrisc (24 Apr 2020)

Tifosi58 said:


> Impressions: ride comfort improved (was 110 now 85lb)



I have found the Mavic UST 700x28c tyres with tubes comfortable; but I am running pressures of 65/75 psi (front/back). The total weight of the bike and myself is 90kg (200lbs)


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## Storck (24 Apr 2020)

harrisc said:


> I have found the Mavic UST 700x28c tyres with tubes comfortable; but I am running pressures of 65/75 psi (front/back). The total weight of the bike and myself is 90kg (200lbs)



Can concur, same wheels shodded with Conti 5000's and tubes. Running slightly more pressure 80-85psi according to Mavic app. I'm approx 160lbs. Very smooth on the road, dropped from using 110psi. More comfort no loss in average speed.


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## Scaleyback (26 Apr 2020)

Good to hear you are still 'with us' guys, (sick humour )

Should have been the London marathon today (RIP) In memoriam I decided to ride 26.2 miles. I slightly overcooked it and ended up doing 30 miles.
Route chosen mindful of 'social distancing' and ridden on predominately very quiet country lanes where humans are rare.


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## Storck (26 Apr 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Good to hear you are still 'with us' guys, (sick humour )
> 
> Should have been the London marathon today (RIP) In memoriam I decided to ride 26.2 miles. I slightly overcooked it and ended up doing 30 miles.
> Route chosen mindful of 'social distancing' and ridden on predominately very quiet country lanes where humans are rare.
> ...



Sorry you missed the Marathon. At least your legs will be feeling OK after 30 miles unlike if you had run the 26 miles. All that training as well Scaley. It's easy to say 'There's always another year' problem is, we ain't getting any younger. Keep on trucking.


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## Scaleyback (26 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> Sorry you missed the Marathon. At least your legs will be feeling OK after 30 miles unlike if you had run the 26 miles. All that training as well Scaley. It's easy to say 'There's always another year' problem is, we ain't getting any younger. Keep on trucking.



Did I give the impression I was running in it ? Oops, not my intention. No I would have been watching on TV. Cycling is a lot easier on the knees.


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## Storck (26 Apr 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Did I give the impression I was running in it ? Oops, not my intention. No I would have been watching on TV. Cycling is a lot easier on the knees.



You was my new HERO there for a moment. Don't blame ya Scaley, knees at our age are very important. Stay safe.


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## Scaleyback (26 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> You was my new HERO there for a moment. Don't blame ya Scaley, knees at our age are very important. Stay safe.



That’s the longest I have ever been someones hero.


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## TouchingCloth (27 Apr 2020)

Hi everyone,
Apologies for hacking into this thread, but it seems to be the most active.
My 2019 model M30 gain arrives tomorrow. Excited doesn't cover how I feel. That said I'm supposed to be in full lockdown due to health issues, hence the gain.
I have been asking for prices for several days and went with a supplier who had a 2019 in stock and cheaper than the new model. Main factor was no one could give me an accurate delivery time on a 2020 model, understandable under the current circumstances. 
My only worry is the bike has been used as a shop floor display model and could have a few nicks, though it has not been described as ex display. 
Sods law its forcast rain tomorrow after weeks of sunshine. My daughter has taken custody of my Merlin Cordite 105 disc since lockdown began, it will be interesting to compare them back to back. 
As you can see, I can talk drivel for free and look forward to joining in discussions and giving my opinions. 
Thanks for reading this far.


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## Storck (27 Apr 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi everyone,
> Apologies for hacking into this thread, but it seems to be the most active.
> My 2019 model M30 gain arrives tomorrow. Excited doesn't cover how I feel. That said I'm supposed to be in full lockdown due to health issues, hence the gain.
> I have been asking for prices for several days and went with a supplier who had a 2019 in stock and cheaper than the new model. Main factor was no one could give me an accurate delivery time on a 2020 model, understandable under the current circumstances.
> ...



I've got 2 Gains, one ex display. It was a bargain? Download the EBIKEMOTION app, when you connect to the Gain? Believe it's in engineering mode, it will tell you exactly how many miles the bike has done. This is recorded automatically. BTW, I'm also in lockdown only another 6 weeks after this one. Hope for a loooong summer?


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## TouchingCloth (27 Apr 2020)

Hi Storck,
Yes I was hoping the app would give me any mileage accrued. I am unsure if its me or the supplier who activates the initial the bike is like mode so to speak


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## Storck (27 Apr 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi Storck,
> Yes I was hoping the app would give me any mileage accrued. I am unsure if its me or the supplier who activates the initial the bike is like mode so to speak



The dealer registers the bike with the Orbea database. You can go on the web and sign up to the 'Dashboard using the same login details as the EBIKEMOTION app.


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## Scaleyback (28 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> I've got 2 Gains, one ex display.



Why have you got 2 Gains DJ, are you money laundering. ? 🤔


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## jowwy (28 Apr 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Why have you got 2 Gains DJ, are you money laundering. ? 🤔


got to have a spare innit - E+1


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## JRTemple (28 Apr 2020)

jowwy said:


> got to have a spare innit - E+1



Could I hire one from you for a month 👍


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## Storck (28 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Could I hire one from you for a month 👍



I'm in isolation. No visitors, family friends etc. For at least another 6 weeks. Just as well I'm a bit of a recluse.


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## JRTemple (28 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> I'm in isolation. No visitors, family friends etc. For at least another 6 weeks. Just as well I'm a bit of a recluse.



just leave it at your front door!


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## JRTemple (28 Apr 2020)

Can anyone please tell me if a Orbea Gain D50 is the same as an Orbea Gain D50 LR?
I’ve found the latter for £1700 and it’s a 2020 model but haven’t seen LR mentioned before?


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## Storck (28 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Can anyone please tell me if a Orbea Gain D50 is the same as an
> 
> Really can't see any difference. The battery is now ant+ so you can add on a small unit on the handlebars that will control the assist change level, without having to use the top tube. Also believe it replicates the mobile app, so certain info is available to look at like battery range, power output etc.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

So the Gain D50 I saw for £1700 has sold out, I’m looking for one in black medium or large frame, anyone know of any deals?


----------



## Storck (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> So the Gain D50 I saw for £1700 has sold out, I’m looking for one in black medium or large frame, anyone know of any deals?



There's a big difference between medium and large. I'm 6 foot tall and would normally ride a large, both my Gains are medium. The alloy Gain in particular is larger than a normal medium, having a long top tube.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> There's a big difference between medium and large. I'm 6 foot tall and would normally ride a large, both my Gains are medium. The alloy Gain in particular is larger than a normal medium, having a long top tube.


 Ok thanks, I’m 5’10 and wasn’t sure which size, I can only afford the D50 and even that is upsetting the wife! 😔


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## Storck (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Ok thanks, I’m 5’10 and wasn’t sure which size, I can only afford the D50 and even that is upsetting the wife! 😔



Then it's a medium for you. Large would be far to big. Ah, that's why I never married.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

I've found a 2019 med in Orange for £1620, not sure about the colour? https://pin.it/1tDoKJH


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## Storck (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> I've found a 2019 med in Orange for £1620, not sure about the colour? https://pin.it/1tDoKJH



Both mine are orange. Looks great. People have commented on how ALIVE it looks.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> Both mine are orange. Looks great. People have commented on how ALIVE it looks.



Right, i'm going to buy it now, you have convinced me!

Now all I need is a water bottle, gloves, clothes, padlock, helmet and some flowers for the wife!


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## Storck (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Right, i'm going to buy it now, you have convinced me!
> 
> Now all I need is a water bottle, gloves, clothes, padlock, helmet and some flowers for the wife!



Haggle with them. I'm sure there's more off? Or get them to include some of the stuff you need.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> Haggle with them. I'm sure there's more off? Or get them to include some of the stuff you need.



They only sell bikes, no clothing or anything else.

Thanks for all your advice.


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## jowwy (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Could I hire one from you for a month 👍


I don’t have an orbea.....I have 2 x cube acids


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

I need to get a water bottle, are all water bottle holders the same fitting or do I need to get a specific one for a Gain D50? (Sorry for being thick!)


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2020)

Same fitting as any road bike, but important to use the short bolts supplied with the bike.


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## JRTemple (29 Apr 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Same fitting as any road bike, but important to use the short bolts supplied with the bike.



Great cheers, ordered a black bottle holder and water bottle which I think will go well with the bike colour, also ordered a helmet and padded pants to protect the other helmet  

Another daft question, do you carry a puncture repair kit? what happens if you get a flat, call the wife? I know what she would say!!!


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## Storck (29 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Great cheers, ordered a black bottle holder and water bottle which I think will go well with the bike colour, also ordered a helmet and padded pants to protect the other helmet
> 
> Another daft question, do you carry a puncture repair kit? what happens if you get a flat, call the wife? I know what she would say!!!



Spare inner tube and you need an 8mm Allen for the rear wheel. Don't forget tyre levers. Having said that, can't recall last time I had a puncture - and I'm talking years. Take off front wheel at home and practice first, will also help ease tyre slightly.


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## youngoldbloke (29 Apr 2020)

Storck said:


> Spare inner tube and you need an 8mm Allen for the rear wheel. Don't forget tyre levers. Having said that, can't recall last time I had a puncture - and I'm talking years. Take off front wheel at home and practice first, will also help ease tyre slightly.


^ this - that 8mm allen key is very important, and check the correct way to disconnect/reconnect the power feed to the rear hub. There are also a couple of washers that need positioning correctly. Not difficult, but the back wheel is very heavy compared with a standard bike which makes it a bit awkward, but the front wheel with quick release is like any other road bike. I had 3 punctures early on due to badly factory fitted rim tapes which I replaced, which cured the problem. I also changed tyres to Continental GP4000s as those supplied on the early Gains were very heavy and unresponsive.


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## Montygraphics (30 Apr 2020)

Before Christmas last year I haggled and paid £1400 for a brand new boxed D50 gain from Cycle Republic in Southampton. Just after they announced the 2020 models. Their website showed none in stock but I rang their Head Office and they came up with one. Absolute bargain and ridden over 1000 miles now.


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## JRTemple (30 Apr 2020)

Montygraphics said:


> Before Christmas last year I haggled and paid £1400 for a brand new boxed D50 gain from Cycle Republic in Southampton. Just after they announced the 2020 models. Their website showed none in stock but I rang their Head Office and they came up with one. Absolute bargain and ridden over 1000 miles now.



Wow great work, just out of curiosity what pedals have you fitted? i'm new to all this!


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## Storck (30 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Wow great work, just out of curiosity what pedals have you fitted? i'm new to all this!



Just get some cheap flat ones to begin with. Get used to doing some miles. Then invest in a pair of clueless pedals £40ish and a pair of cycling shoes with stiff soles.


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## Scaleyback (30 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> So the Gain D50 I saw for £1700 has sold out, I’m looking for one in black medium or large frame, anyone know of any deals?



I concur with what Storck said, most people need the size down from what they normally ride. I have always ridden medium frames my alloy Gain is a small.


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## Storck (30 Apr 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I concur with what Storck said, most people need the size down from what they normally ride. I have always ridden medium frames my alloy Gain is a small.



Nah, lets be honest Scaley? We've shrunk.


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## JRTemple (30 Apr 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I concur with what Storck said, most people need the size down from what they normally ride. I have always ridden medium frames my alloy Gain is a small.



how tall are you?


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## Storck (30 Apr 2020)

JRTemple said:


> how tall are you?



Six feet, in socks.


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## NickWi (1 May 2020)

I'm also exactly 6 feet tall and find my Large 2018 model D20 just the right size when I ride it. It does look quite tall as it's a traditional rather than compact fram design but put next to my 23 1/2" tourer and my 59cm road bike, all looks pretty similar.


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## TouchingCloth (2 May 2020)

The Gain I have just purchased is Carbon. The sizing chart has me as a medium as I'm 5ft 8in tall. I spoke to the dealer who was pretty sure medium would be fine. However I mentioneed that I have really short inside leg. He then said, well you may need a small alloy frame but the medium in the carbon would be ok as there is a slight difference in the geometry.
When I did order I went for a small, as my Merlin carbon was a small and I had been and sat on that before buying. 
Its a lot easier to make a small frame a bit bigger, than make the big one smaller, especially if your right on the cusp of both sizes.


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## Storck (2 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> The Gain I have just purchased is Carbon. The sizing chart has me as a medium as I'm 5ft 8in tall. I spoke to the dealer who was pretty sure medium would be fine. However I mentioneed that I have really short inside leg. He then said, well you may need a small alloy frame but the medium in the carbon would be ok as there is a slight difference in the geometry.
> When I did order I went for a small, as my Merlin carbon was a small and I had been and sat on that before buying.
> Its a lot easier to make a small frame a bit bigger, than make the big one smaller, especially if your right on the cusp of both sizes.



The carbon Gain is more compact than the 'D' Shorter head tube and reach. On my carbon Gain the seat is setback with my alloy Gain, it's pushed forward sitting on a no setback pin. Of course you are correct, easier placing longer stem and setback seat pin.


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## TouchingCloth (3 May 2020)

So the M30 arrived, 2019 model as it was instock and delivered in 3 days, rather than not knowing how long a 2020 in my size might take, especially under yhe current circumstances. Bike looks even better in the flesh than I imagined, the only thing I would change about the looks, is reduce the clearances. Far too much clearance on road tyres at the forks, especially with no brake calipers to fill the void. I probably won't be saying that when I pop in some 40mm wide tires to go gravel tracking, but why not make two seperate frames or at least fork options. 
As you may have read elsewhere, at 5ft 8in tall I just fall in to the medium sized frame, however with inside leg measurements of only 28in I plumped for a small and it feels very good. I would certainly have struggled on a medium. 
I suffer with blocked illiac arteries that give me cramps when the leg muscles are asking for more oxgen than can be delivered. After a couple of rides I'm delighted with the assistance it gives me, its opened up so many more local rides and loops, now I can defeat some of the short sharp hills that have previously caged me in. It gives me exactly what I want, a good workout but the help I need l, to not over stress the muscles. Still giving me a damn good work out to increase the muscle strength, as I can choose the level of assistance and when I decide to ask for it. Th good bits are very good indeed, I am frustrated with a few things though.
I have no problem with the iwoc controller, even if it does drop from level 3 to no assistance, rather than back through the gears so to speak. My problem is the drag that appears, when you do this, as if someone has put the brakes on. 
After climbing some steep ascents on level 3 and the road levels out or starts to descend, I have pressed the button to switch to no help, and the bike appears to have applied brakes. I will frantically press the button to apply assistance, but I seem to get nothing for 5 or 6 seconds. I know my legs are tired, but even if I try and put more effort in, it feels like an un natrual resistance. Can anyone suggest what I'm suffering here or how to ride around it?
Only other issue is the ebike motion app. The bike never connects to the app, I always have to look for the bike from within the app. If I use it as a speedo/sat nav/electrics monitor, it eats the battery on my moble. Its ok if I have it running in the background, in the darkness of my pocket. 
Finding the detailed info is a pain as you have to log into the website not the app. The strava integration has worked once but I cant get it to do it again.
Other than that, this bike has changed my life and made cycling fun again.


----------



## Storck (3 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> So the M30 arrived, 2019 model as it was instock and delivered in 3 days, rather than not knowing how long a 2020 in my size might take, especially under yhe current circumstances. Bike looks even better in the flesh than I imagined, the only thing I would change about the looks, is reduce the clearances. Far too much clearance on road tyres at the forks, especially with no brake calipers to fill the void. I probably won't be saying that when I pop in some 40mm wide tires to go gravel tracking, but why not make two seperate frames or at least fork options.
> As you may have read elsewhere, at 5ft 8in tall I just fall in to the medium sized frame, however with inside leg measurements of only 28in I plumped for a small and it feels very good. I would certainly have struggled on a medium.
> I suffer with blocked illiac arteries that give me cramps when the leg muscles are asking for more oxgen than can be delivered. After a couple of rides I'm delighted with the assistance it gives me, its opened up so many more local rides and loops, now I can defeat some of the short sharp hills that have previously caged me in. It gives me exactly what I want, a good workout but the help I need l, to not over stress the muscles. Still giving me a damn good work out to increase the muscle strength, as I can choose the level of assistance and when I decide to ask for it. Th good bits are very good indeed, I am frustrated with a few things though.
> I have no problem with the iwoc controller, even if it does drop from level 3 to no assistance, rather than back through the gears so to speak. My problem is the drag that appears, when you do this, as if someone has put the brakes on.
> ...



That's not drag you're experiencing, that's reality. You are riding in assist, probably using a bigger gear because it's easier. Switch off assist the weight of the bike takes on a new meaning. Carry on a few hundred yards, and you ride through it.
Ps. Have never got Strava to sync.


----------



## TouchingCloth (3 May 2020)

Hi Storck,
I have to say that was my initial thoughts and may be tha case in certain situations.
However when the peak of a climb is followed immediately by a decent, I have been changing from red..level 3... striaght to white.. no assistance, wanting to coast down the hill and the bike appears to be putting the brakes on. I change down the gears to try and built up some momentum to overcome it, but it appears to take several seconds for to realise no assistance is required.
Lets say I hit the crest of the hill using maximum assist at 8mph, no matter what level I switch to, apart from back to max, or what gear I select, the motor does not want to spin faster than 8mph. So I feel like I'm fighting the motor.
It only clears immediately if I press and hold to switch the power off totally. Then any connection with the emotion app is cut, so not the best option.
It's very early days in the learning curve, and I suspect I will find particular time/cadence/gears I should be in at particular points to get the best from it.
Already read in this thread, higher cadence appears to give best results when climbing.
Thanks for your feedback... anything at this point is a gem of wisdom


----------



## NickWi (3 May 2020)

I also experience the drag problem when dropping down the power levels, but the 'cure' is quite simple, pedal backward for half or whole rotation. Don't know why it works but it does.


----------



## Storck (3 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi Storck,
> I have to say that was my initial thoughts and may be tha case in certain situations.
> However when the peak of a climb is followed immediately by a decent, I have been changing from red..level 3... striaght to white.. no assistance, wanting to coast down the hill and the bike appears to be putting the brakes on. I change down the gears to try and built up some momentum to overcome it, but it appears to take several seconds for to realise no assistance is required.
> Lets say I hit the crest of the hill using maximum assist at 8mph, no matter what level I switch to, apart from back to max, or what gear I select, the motor does not want to spin faster than 8mph. So I feel like I'm fighting the motor.
> ...



Yes, a higher cadence makes the motor assist more efficient. I'm a bigger gear rider, however having done many trials in the hills, the sweet spot seems to around 75-80rpm for the motor. Push a bigger gear up hill and you can end up with no assist at all.


----------



## youngoldbloke (3 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi Storck,
> I have to say that was my initial thoughts and may be tha case in certain situations.
> However when the peak of a climb is followed immediately by a decent, I have been changing from red..level 3... striaght to white.. no assistance, wanting to coast down the hill and the bike appears to be putting the brakes on. I change down the gears to try and built up some momentum to overcome it, but it appears to take several seconds for to realise no assistance is required.
> Lets say I hit the crest of the hill using maximum assist at 8mph, no matter what level I switch to, apart from back to max, or what gear I select, the motor does not want to spin faster than 8mph. So I feel like I'm fighting the motor.
> ...


- not my experience. I tend to leave the level as required to ascend the hill until I've crested the top and then drop to the first level, even if I'm initially getting 'too much' help, otherwise as Storck suggests I experience the weight-drag of the bike. (Mine is an alloy version, but exactly twice the weight of the Carbon fibre Rose I had been used to riding!) I don't feel any motor drag, or when coasting, Do you get that drag when you stop pedalling on the flat, or go to '0'? Perhaps I'm just used to the bike now after riding it exclusively for almost 3 years. BTW I understand it's not good practice to ride with the motor actually switched off. I had a lot of trouble with the app originally, but more recently it has become much more stable, though I tried to renew my £3.99 map subs earlier this year and although the download failed completely EBM kept the money, and my appeal to PayPal was unsuccessful! I have to link the bike every time I use it, and it is very battery hungry, Good review of your experiences so far.
Interested that your reasons for getting a Gain sounds very similar to mine - vascular disease. Femoral and iliac arteries in both my legs are restricted, I was finding that even just 2 or 3 miles on my Rose could induce severe pain, particularly on any incline, however slight.


----------



## Storck (3 May 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> - not my experience. I tend to leave the level as required to ascend the hill until I've crested the top and then drop to the first level, even if I'm initially getting 'too much' help, otherwise as Storck suggests I experience the weight-drag of the bike. (Mine is an alloy version, but exactly twice the weight of the Carbon fibre Rose I had been used to riding!) I don't feel any motor drag, or when coasting, Do you get that drag when you stop pedalling on the flat, or go to '0'? Perhaps I'm just used to the bike now after riding it exclusively for almost 3 years. BTW I understand it's not good practice to ride with the motor actually switched off. I had a lot of trouble with the app originally, but more recently it has become much more stable, though I tried to renew my £3.99 map subs earlier this year and although the download failed completely EBM kept the money, and my appeal to PayPal was unsuccessful! I have to link the bike every time I use it, and it is very battery hungry, Good review of your experiences so far.
> Interested that your reasons for getting a Gain sounds very similar to mine - vascular disease. Femoral and iliac arteries in both my legs are restricted, I was finding that even just 2 or 3 miles on my Rose could induce severe pain, particularly on any incline, however slight.



Your correct Young. If I require no assist I still ride the bike switched on in mode 0. I've never experienced the drag, that some others describe, be it dropping down assist or freewheeling downhill. Also have a Samsung Edge 7, after connecting to bike I put phone in standby mode, rides of 3 hours have little impact on battery.


----------



## TouchingCloth (3 May 2020)

NickWi said:


> I also experience the drag problem when dropping down the power levels, but the 'cure' is quite simple, pedal backward for half or whole rotation. Don't know why it works but it does.


Hi NickWi, 
I must have read one of your earlier posts about this method. I did try it but it did not work for me. Reminded me of my old sturmy archer 3 speed hubs. I think you had to pedal backwards when changing gear on some of those.


----------



## TouchingCloth (3 May 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> - not my experience. I tend to leave the level as required to ascend the hill until I've crested the top and then drop to the first level, even if I'm initially getting 'too much' help, otherwise as Storck suggests I experience the weight-drag of the bike. (Mine is an alloy version, but exactly twice the weight of the Carbon fibre Rose I had been used to riding!) I don't feel any motor drag, or when coasting, Do you get that drag when you stop pedalling on the flat, or go to '0'? Perhaps I'm just used to the bike now after riding it exclusively for almost 3 years. BTW I understand it's not good practice to ride with the motor actually switched off. I had a lot of trouble with the app originally, but more recently it has become much more stable, though I tried to renew my £3.99 map subs earlier this year and although the download failed completely EBM kept the money, and my appeal to PayPal was unsuccessful! I have to link the bike every time I use it, and it is very battery hungry, Good review of your experiences so far.
> Interested that your reasons for getting a Gain sounds very similar to mine - vascular disease. Femoral and iliac arteries in both my legs are restricted, I was finding that even just 2 or 3 miles on my Rose could induce severe pain, particularly on any incline, however slight.


Hi Youngoldbloke,
I have had two kissing stents inserted where my illiac arteries split. At one point I could not walk up even the slightest incline without severe pain in my buttocks and thighs. It was as a miracle cure for several years, but one of the stents has collapsed and I'm beginning to suffer again. Like you anything less than flat was almost impossible. I was driving over to the river to ride along the flood plain, but it became tedious due to same old couple of loops.

I don't have any drag when riding on the flat in any of the modes. The only time it kicks in is when I drop from level 3 max assistance, after climbing longer/steeper hills and gradually slowing and dropping down the gears as I get tired. If I only use level 1 or 2 assistance on a climb I dont get any noticeable drag when I crest the summit at all. 
I initially thought it was as Storck mentioned, me suddenly having to take on the weight of the bike and my tired limbs when I suddenly had no assistance at all. Especially as I tend to almost stop pedaling once the adrenaline of reaching the top is over. However it really caught me out when it took several second to sort itself out when there was and immediate drop after the crest. On both occasions on my ride where this happend, I'd peddle over the crest in level 3, begin to pick up speed, and press once to go into no assist mode. However the bike slowed and despite now going down hill, peddling was very difficult. I had to flick through to level 2 assistance to release the drag. One that was done I could flick through to no assistance and freewheel down as normal.
I did try the pedal backwards tip but this didn't seem to work for me.
Maybe I will stay in maximum assist for a little while longer after cresting hills and see how that is. I think its my natrual reaction to try and go to the lowest assist as quickly as possible, 1 to save the battery and 2 to prove to myself I'm only using the max assist when absolutely necessary. 
Any way, great to be a member of the community. So many questions already answered while reading this and a few other threads. It's early days but in all honesty its far better than I ever expected already.


----------



## TouchingCloth (3 May 2020)

Storck said:


> Your correct Young. If I require no assist I still ride the bike switched on in mode 0. I've never experienced the drag, that some others describe, be it dropping down assist or freewheeling downhill. Also have a Samsung Edge 7, after connecting to bike I put phone in standby mode, rides of 3 hours have little impact on battery.


Hi Storck, 
Battery life on the phone is fine if I have the app running in the background along with strava. It really drained it when I left the monitor on, to use it as a map/speedo/battery indicator. I'm now confident that despite my current lack of fittness I'm not going to run the battery down to fast. I'm happy to use the coloured ring on the iwoc button to give me my battey life.


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## Storck (6 May 2020)

New EBIKEMOTION app update available for android user's.


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## Southernguns (6 May 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> - BTW I understand it's not good practice to ride with the motor actually switched off.


Interesting and good to know as I, typically, am in the wrong here - I often ride the flats and declines with it turned off. Any ideas on why we should not be riding with the power turned off?


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## youngoldbloke (6 May 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Interesting and good to know as I, typically, am in the wrong here - I often ride the flats and declines with it turned off. Any ideas on why we should not be riding with the power turned off?


I have always ridden with the power on, scrolling to the '0' setting if no assistance required, but others have reported various issues riding with power completely off. Sorry I can't be more specific, you'd have to trawl through the various Orbea Gain threads for details - also on pedelecs and EBR.


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## Southernguns (6 May 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> I have always ridden with the power on, scrolling to the '0' setting if no assistance required, but others have reported various issues riding with power completely off. Sorry I can't be more specific, you'd have to trawl through the various Orbea Gain threads for details - also on pedelecs and EBR.


Thanks for the reply, Young. I have never had any issues but I guess it is no hassle to have it on the '0' setting. I will start doing that from now on. Better safe than sorry


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## TouchingCloth (7 May 2020)

Hi Southerners,
I have not had mine long but it rides perfect when not switched on, though the extra weight of the motor/battery was soon felt on anything less than flat or a head wind. I also switched off completely when trying to eliminate the drag I'd been suffering. This worked but disconnected me from the emotion app. That was the only downside for me thus far.
After reading through this very informative thread I now have it switched on at all times, it uses little or no power from the battery when in zero mode so no point in leaving it off.
My drag issues are diminishing as I learn to ride past the peak in top assistance. Once I have reached a reasonable speed, changing to zero or level 1 assistance is far less troublesome.


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## Storck (7 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi Southerners,
> I have not had mine long but it rides perfect when not switched on, though the extra weight of the motor/battery was soon felt on anything less than flat or a head wind. I also switched off completely when trying to eliminate the drag I'd been suffering. This worked but disconnected me from the emotion app. That was the only downside for me thus far.
> After reading through this very informative thread I now have it switched on at all times, it uses little or no power from the battery when in zero mode so no point in leaving it off.
> My drag issues are diminishing as I learn to ride past the peak in top assistance. Once I have reached a reasonable speed, changing to zero or level 1 assistance is far less troublesome.



It took a number of rides, before I worked out the most efficient way for me to get the most out of the bike given my riding style and preferences.


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## Scaleyback (8 May 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Thanks for the reply, Young. I have never had any issues but I guess it is no hassle to have it on the '0' setting. I will start doing that from now on. Better safe than sorry



Cannot say I have ever read anything about 'issues' when riding with the power off. Not sure why you would do that ?  unless you wanted to tackle a hill 'unassisted' of course.


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## Southernguns (9 May 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Hi Southerners,
> I have not had mine long but it rides perfect when not switched on, though the extra weight of the motor/battery was soon felt on anything less than flat or a head wind. I also switched off completely when trying to eliminate the drag I'd been suffering. This worked but disconnected me from the emotion app. That was the only downside for me thus far.
> After reading through this very informative thread I now have it switched on at all times, it uses little or no power from the battery when in zero mode so no point in leaving it off...





Scaleyback said:


> Cannot say I have ever read anything about 'issues' when riding with the power off. Not sure why you would do that ?  unless you wanted to tackle a hill 'unassisted' of course.



Thanks for the replies, Touchingcloth and Scaley. And TouchingCloth welcome to the community. I am glad you are enjoying the Gain experience. It has been a godsend for me. 

Living at the top of a hill (the only way is down) I often jump on the bike and start cycling without thinking about turning it on. I forget about it until I hit a hill whereupon I notice how heavy the bike is and how much my back, hip and knee hurt. I turn it on to get up the hill then rather than press the iWoc button repeatedly to cycle through the lights to setting '0' I just turn it off. I guess it is only laziness. It is not until later into the ride as I tire that I leave it on permanently.

Touchingcloth, I don't use the emotion app other than at the end of a ride to see how much battery power is left. Although the app is useful, I have a garmin triathlon watch which records my route and uploads the data to Strava automatically for me, and I use that for keeping a record of my cycles, runs and swims so that it is all in one place. I use a Mio Cycle as a gps during my cycle with my route uploaded onto it which I create in Komoot. The Mio Cycle has all the data I need for my ride and I figure that when out on the ride there is nothing I can do about how much battery power I have left so there is little point worrying about it or even knowing, so all of this negates the need for the emotion app. Thus, I never use it on a ride anymore.

With regards to the drag after using setting '3', yes I get that and I notice it considerably. The only thing that I have found that works for me to get around the issue is, once over the hill, to set the iWoc to setting '2' for 30 seconds or so and then adjust it to the setting I want.


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## Storck (11 May 2020)

Anyone interested? Orbea offer £120 off Gain battery extender for short period.


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## No pain no gain (20 May 2020)

Did a stupid thing this morning. Stripped the threads on the M12 rear axle nut on my Gain D30. I've ordered a replacement through my local dealer who has to get it from Spain, which in the current situation might take a while. Does anyone know the thread pitch of the axle so I could get a temporary nut from a UK engineering supplier or maybe point to an Orbea dealer who might have one in stock.


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## No pain no gain (22 May 2020)

Found out that the thread pitch is 1.25mm. I've ordered a generic nut as a stopgap but it would still be good to know if I could get the correct nut from a dealer.


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## Scaleyback (29 May 2020)

Has there been previous talk about the ebikemotion 'app' for the Gain draining the phone battery ?


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## youngoldbloke (29 May 2020)

It has been mentioned in the past somewhere … I talked about using a powerbank with my Huawei, and then using a Motorola G5, which copes with it much better. But if I leave the app running when off the bike it does drain the battery quickly.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain-iwoc-blue-tooth-issue.240694/


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## Scaleyback (29 May 2020)

Thanks Peter,
I rarely use the app apart from checking the battery charge when it falls 'into the red' I have noticed a few times my Moto G6 play battery has severely depleted in an unusually short time. (It usually lasts me days ! ) I need to check this carefully but my instinct tells me it is only after I have connected via the 'app' I'm wondering if somehow the 'app' software is continuing to drain the battery when not in use. I shall try shutting the phone down and restarting it every time I use the 'app' This should 'kill' any running software. If this cures the battery drainage problem then . . . . eureka.


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## Pettsy74 (2 Jun 2020)

Just wanted to say hi , new to the forum but read through a lot of this thread and think it will be a valuable resource and may well be picking your brains over the next few months . I have my 2020 M20 due to be delivered tomorrow . Fingers crossed I’ve bagged myself a steal because I’ve managed to pick up a ex demo for 2300 which seems like a ridiculous saving on new , especially for the current model . I’ve been half expecting the store to ring me and tell me they’d priced it wrong but it’s been picked up by the couriers and is enroute so I’m now allowing myself to get excited !! I ll let you all know how I get on with it in next couple of days !!


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## JRTemple (3 Jun 2020)

Pettsy74 said:


> Just wanted to say hi , new to the forum but read through a lot of this thread and think it will be a valuable resource and may well be picking your brains over the next few months . I have my 2020 M20 due to be delivered tomorrow . Fingers crossed I’ve bagged myself a steal because I’ve managed to pick up a ex demo for 2300 which seems like a ridiculous saving on new , especially for the current model . I’ve been half expecting the store to ring me and tell me they’d priced it wrong but it’s been picked up by the couriers and is enroute so I’m now allowing myself to get excited !! I ll let you all know how I get on with it in next couple of days !!



Thats a great deal, I just paid £2700 for a 2019 model, enjoy your bike, I am


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## TouchingCloth (5 Jun 2020)

Morning All,
Had my gain a month now, it came with mavic aksium with tubless tyres, but on getting my first puncture I discovered it also had tubes fitted. It was incredibly difficult to re fit the tyre, not only getting it back on the rim, but making sure the bead on the tyre located in the groove in the rim all around the wheel to prevent the flat spots. Lots of soapy water and sore fingers eventually got it back on at home, but at the roadside it was a nightmare. 
I considered converting to run as a tubless, but the first puncture was a rusty nail that entered the tyre and was rattling around inside, I'd have had to remove the tyre anyway. I have since had 5 more punctures, all in the rear and 3 additional trapped innertubes while attempting refitting the tyres. Snapped 6 tyre levers and destroyed the wheel decals in the process. I've replaced the inner tube each time rather than patch. No foreign objects in the tyre or damage to rim, so I'm confident its not a recurring issue due to this.
So has anyone else experience so many punctures and such difficulty refitting the tyres. I'm considering purchasing a normal clincher, probably the latest Continental GP5000 as they review as haveing good puncture resistance and its easier to repair at the roadside, but thought I'd see if others had had similar issues. Have I just been unlucky?


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## youngoldbloke (5 Jun 2020)

I had a number of punctures early on caused by the badly fitted original rim tape. Changed the tapes for better quality and no problems since. Not sure if this might apply to tubeless ready rims.


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## Southernguns (5 Jun 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Morning All,
> Had my gain a month now, it came with mavic aksium with tubless tyres, but on getting my first puncture I discovered it also had tubes fitted. It was incredibly difficult to re fit the tyre, not only getting it back on the rim, but making sure the bead on the tyre located in the groove in the rim all around the wheel to prevent the flat spots. Lots of soapy water and sore fingers eventually got it back on at home, but at the roadside it was a nightmare.
> I considered converting to run as a tubless, but the first puncture was a rusty nail that entered the tyre and was rattling around inside, I'd have had to remove the tyre anyway. I have since had 5 more punctures, all in the rear and 3 additional trapped innertubes while attempting refitting the tyres. Snapped 6 tyre levers and destroyed the wheel decals in the process. I've replaced the inner tube each time rather than patch. No foreign objects in the tyre or damage to rim, so I'm confident its not a recurring issue due to this.
> So has anyone else experience so many punctures and such difficulty refitting the tyres. I'm considering purchasing a normal clincher, probably the latest Continental GP5000 as they review as haveing good puncture resistance and its easier to repair at the roadside, but thought I'd see if others had had similar issues. Have I just been unlucky?


There's been quite a bit posted on similar issues - I think around pages 11-17 or 18 from memory. It might be worth a look back through those pages. I'm sure Scaley posted a decent explanation on the troubles he had with the tires and why he changed his, and what he changed to.


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## richtea (7 Jun 2020)

Southernguns said:


> There's been quite a bit posted on similar issues - I think around pages 11-17 or 18 from memory. It might be worth a look back through those pages. I'm sure Scaley posted a decent explanation on the troubles he had with the tires and why he changed his, and what he changed to.



You're right, Southernguns. About here, onward (page 16):
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/page-16#post-5639808

I just bought a barely used D50 with BlackJack Ready GR rims and the Storm11 Hutchinson tyres on.
I'll ride them until they puncture, curse, and then replace. I see no advantage in tubeless, and quite a few disadvantages.


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## Southernguns (8 Jun 2020)

richtea said:


> You're right, Southernguns. About here, onward (page 16):
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/page-16#post-5639808
> 
> I just bought a barely used D50 with BlackJack Ready GR rims and the Storm11 Hutchinson tyres on.
> I'll ride them until they puncture, curse, and then replace. I see no advantage in tubeless, and quite a few disadvantages.


I have Schwalbe G One all terrain I think. They are tubeless ready but I have tubes in them. I have had 1 slow puncture which managed to get me home. After putting a new tube in they were pretty hard to get the tyre to pop back on using a small hand pump so I ended up using a compressor. I am not looking forward to the day I get a puncture that needs fixing when out on the road as I reckon I will be phoning a taxi.


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## JRTemple (8 Jun 2020)

Had my Gain M20 for 3 weeks now and done about 300 miles, no problems with punctures, it came with Nano tyres, I think they are gravel tyres, was think of putting the Yksuon pro road tyres back on? What do you think?


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## NickWi (10 Jun 2020)

I can't comment on your particular choice of tyres, but my D20 Gain came with Kenda gravel tyres and I very quickly changed them as I just didn't like them. Initially I swapped to 32mm to Schwalbe Marathon Plus, and almost as fast again to 28mm Pirelli road tyres. The difference was truly amazing. Faster, rolled better, easier and as a bonus added a few extra miles to the range. One happy bunny.

Then approaching winter I thought I'd put the gravel tyres back on, you know, more comfort, better grip on muddy roads etc. Yuk, it felt like riding through treacle. They lasted one ride and the Pirellis were back one less than an hour after getting back home, and have stayed on ever since.

Now, it could be that the OEM Kenda Flintridge tyres are crap and there are better gravel tyres available, but if like me you’re primarily using your bike on tarmac then sticking to tyres designed for the job is the way to go.


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## ScaryFast75 (10 Jun 2020)

Guys happy to be on this forum, new member from San Antonio Texas... your comments about it being too hot at 32 Celsius cracks me up... in Texans I ride in 33 degrees Celsius plus from June -August . Bought a new old stock Orbea Gain 2019 model D31. Getting approx 40-60 miles depending on level...


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## richtea (10 Jun 2020)

> I just bought a barely used D50 with BlackJack Ready GR rims and the Storm11 Hutchinson tyres on.
> I'll ride them until they puncture, curse, and then replace. I see no advantage in tubeless, and quite a few disadvantages.

I should have qualifed that grumpy note with '... but the tyres are great in use'.
They roll much better my previous bike's Continental Touring tyres, and have just enough suspension at 28mm. 
It's only the punctures I'm not looking forward to.


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## ScaryFast75 (11 Jun 2020)

Update just received Orbea Range Extender and getting error code BMS 194 ... blinking purple .. haven’t even used it yet...so disappointing... I’ve contacted Mikes Bikes whom I purchased it from but lately their customer service has been slow at best and poor at worse... also emailed Mahle and Orbea... there is a Quality Control green Sticker’s the bottom of battery but apparently that’s useless ... see pics


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## NickWi (12 Jun 2020)

Not sure if this is the same problem as you're experiencing, but worth reading through something similar discussed at the bottom of this and the next page on the US Electric Bike Review forum.


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## ScaryFast75 (12 Jun 2020)

NickWi said:


> Not sure if this is the same problem as you're experiencing, but worth reading through something similar discussed at the bottom of this and the next page on the US Electric Bike Review forum.


Same error code. I contacted Mikes Bikes and they have put in a warranty replacement order for me to Orbea.... let’s see how long this will take...


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## JRTemple (17 Jun 2020)

So as previously mentioned my Orbea Gain came with gravel tyres and I’m going to change them for road tyres, I’ve been looking at the Specialized Roubaix Pro Road Tyre anyone used them? Any suggestions?


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## youngoldbloke (18 Jun 2020)

I changed to Continental GP4000s, 28mm, as that was what I used on my other road bikes. Superseded by GP5000s. I now have 25mm front and 28mm rear fitted.


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## JRTemple (18 Jun 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> I changed to Continental GP4000s, 28mm, as that was what I used on my other road bikes. Superseded by GP5000s. I now have 25mm front and 28mm rear fitted.



Funny enough I have just changed my mind and purchased Continental Grand Prix 5000 Tyre both in 28mm as they are on offer for £38.99 each and I had a £10 voucher for signing up.


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## ScaryFast75 (26 Jun 2020)

ScaryFast75 said:


> Update just received Orbea Range Extender and getting error code BMS 194 ... blinking purple .. haven’t even used it yet...so disappointing... I’ve contacted Mikes Bikes whom I purchased it from but lately their customer service has been slow at best and poor at worse... also emailed Mahle and Orbea... there is a Quality Control green Sticker’s the bottom of battery but apparently that’s useless ... see pics


FYI Mikes Bikes still hasn’t sent me a new one, checked FB reviews very bad lately...avoid this online retailer USA


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## ScaryFast75 (27 Jun 2020)

ScaryFast75 said:


> FYI Mikes Bikes still hasn’t sent me a new one, checked FB reviews very bad lately...avoid this online retailer USA


Update I contacted PayPal as I payed them using this method and they stepped in and immediately got a response from Mikes Bikes and they are sending me a new Range Extender. 
However on a 47 mile ride today in the hill country in Bourne TX I popped a spoke. Bike only has 318 miles on it. Good news I was able to finish the ride. Taking the bike in for warranty wheel work.


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## ScaryFast75 (27 Jun 2020)

ScaryFast75 said:


> FYI Mikes Bikes still hasn’t sent me a new one, checked FB reviews very bad lately...avoid this online retailer USA


 pics of the bike spoke popped today on my Orbea Gain d31


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## richtea (27 Jun 2020)

The Gain only has 1x spoke lacing (or at least that's what my D50 has), which isn't ideal for strength.
I'm having my wheels rebuilt in 2-3 weeks time as a precaution, but I do weigh more than the average bear.

I've seen 2x lacing and 3x lacing on eBikeMotion hubs (Cannondale and Bianchi respectively), so it shouldn't be hard to improve on the factory lacing.

I'll to come back to the thread at some point, and let you know how it goes.


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## Scaleyback (28 Jun 2020)

TouchingCloth said:


> Morning All,
> Had my gain a month now, it came with mavic aksium with tubless tyres, but on getting my first puncture I discovered it also had tubes fitted. It was incredibly difficult to re fit the tyre, not only getting it back on the rim, but making sure the bead on the tyre located in the groove in the rim all around the wheel to prevent the flat spots. Lots of soapy water and sore fingers eventually got it back on at home, but at the roadside it was a nightmare.
> I considered converting to run as a tubless, but the first puncture was a rusty nail that entered the tyre and was rattling around inside, I'd have had to remove the tyre anyway. I have since had 5 more punctures, all in the rear and 3 additional trapped innertubes while attempting refitting the tyres. Snapped 6 tyre levers and destroyed the wheel decals in the process. I've replaced the inner tube each time rather than patch. No foreign objects in the tyre or damage to rim, so I'm confident its not a recurring issue due to this.
> So has anyone else experience so many punctures and such difficulty refitting the tyres. I'm considering purchasing a normal clincher, probably the latest Continental GP5000 as they review as haveing good puncture resistance and its easier to repair at the roadside, but thought I'd see if others had had similar issues. Have I just been unlucky?



I have posted before on the difficulty on removing/refitting tyres on my Gain and I see others have struggled.
I purchased this 
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A855QRY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and while not being the complete panacea it certainly helped me.


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## Scaleyback (28 Jun 2020)

ScaryFast75 said:


> pics of the bike spoke popped today on my Orbea Gain d31



I lost spokes on my Gain d30 when it was only a few months old, ( I am 71kg) Cheap nasty wheels (GR Ready ?) with poor build quality imo.
Shame because the rest of the bike is top notch.


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## Southernguns (29 Jun 2020)

I have been lucky with the spokes so far (touch wood) and I give my D30 quite a hammering over rough gravel rides. Although this is a concern as it does seem to be an issue and will be difficult/expensive to fix.

I have noticed lately that when (not riding the bike) I lift the back wheel and spin it with my hand there is a rattling noise coming from the rear hub or motor with power off and on. I am more inclined to think it is the motor than the hub, but I cannot remember if it has always done this or whether this has developed recently. There does not appear to be any drop in performance and I do not notice it when riding the bike, but that may be because it is not loud enough over wind and road noise. Does anyone have this or are your motor's silky smooth?


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## Southernguns (29 Jun 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I have posted before on the difficulty on removing/refitting tyres on my Gain and I see others have struggled.
> I purchased this
> View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A855QRY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> and while not being the complete panacea it certainly helped me.



Looks like a handy tool - do you carry it with you when out on a ride?


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## NickWi (30 Jun 2020)

Southernguns said:


> I have been lucky with the spokes so far (touch wood) and I give my D30 quite a hammering over rough gravel rides. Although this is a concern as it does seem to be an issue and will be difficult/expensive to fix.
> 
> I have noticed lately that when (not riding the bike) I lift the back wheel and spin it with my hand there is a rattling noise coming from the rear hub or motor with power off and on. I am more inclined to think it is the motor than the hub, but I cannot remember if it has always done this or whether this has developed recently. There does not appear to be any drop in performance and I do not notice it when riding the bike, but that may be because it is not loud enough over wind and road noise. Does anyone have this or are your motor's silky smooth?


Mine (1x11 D20) is the same, on the bike smooth as can be, on the stand, like you I can hear a knock. I read elsewhere it's just the magnets connecting and releasing. Whether that is true Ir not I don't know, but my bike is now over two years old, done several thousand miled and runs as good as the day i got it.

Spoke problems, none, well a couple of ones that went dunk instead on ping, but I picked those up during routine cleaning & maintenance checks, once tweaked, no problems since.


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## Scaleyback (30 Jun 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Looks like a handy tool - do you carry it with you when out on a ride?



No, in over 2,000 miles I have never had a puncture and I do not carry spare tubes or puncture repair kit. As I have explained before I use ‘Stans NoTubes’ tyre sealant in my inner tubes, maybe I have just been lucky ? 😀
My backup ? I phone my wife and she arrives in the vehicle with my bike rack. Never needed yet.

edit: 2,512 miles


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## Southernguns (30 Jun 2020)

NickWi said:


> Mine (1x11 D20) is the same, on the bike smooth as can be, on the stand, like you I can hear a knock. I read elsewhere it's just the magnets connecting and releasing. Whether that is true Ir not I don't know, but my bike is now over two years old, done several thousand miled and runs as good as the day i got it.
> 
> Spoke problems, none, well a couple of ones that went dunk instead on ping, but I picked those up during routine cleaning & maintenance checks, once tweaked, no problems since.


Thanks for the reply NickWi. Mine sounds more like a gravelly grinding noise rather than a knock but I guess all is okay. It certainly seems to work as it should so I will stop worrying about it.


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## JRTemple (5 Jul 2020)

Has anyone used a trainer or roller with a Gain? can you please recommend something


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## Scaleyback (10 Jul 2020)

Hmm ? I can see no problem with rollers but I would take ‘professional’ advice before using your Gain on a trainer with built in resistance (whether smart or manual) Yes you may intend to just switch off the Gain assistance but I think it has been stated on here that cycling with the Gain ‘off’ is not recommended. 
I would just get a 2nd ‘cheapo’ bike dedicated to the trainer/rollers.


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## Southernguns (15 Jul 2020)

JRTemple said:


> Has anyone used a trainer or roller with a Gain? can you please recommend something


Yes, when I had a bike fit I was on a trainer for about 2 hours. It worked fine but I did leave the power off (well turned on but with the light on but on the white light setting so no power is going to the back wheel).


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## JRTemple (16 Jul 2020)

So I had my first blow out on Monday, 30 miles in to a 50 mile ride and hit a pot hole, it was the pot hole or a van who must have liked my bum in tight Lycra because he was bloody close 
Ripped a hole in the tyre and nothing I could do other than call the wife, I'm going to pay for this for months 
So I bought some Continental 5000 tyres and fitted them, the front went on fine but the rear is fighting back 
Just as I thought is was all sorted and took the bike out for a quick trip to check all is OK before a longer ride tomorrow and the air is escaping out of 1 spoke?
Could it be a damaged rim when I hit the pot hole?
I've checked the tyre, valve, pressure all ok?
I've bought some tape which arrives tomorrow but I will miss my early morning ride 
Any thoughts?


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## richtea (16 Jul 2020)

My D50 came with tubeless-ready rims, and tubeless-ready tyres: Blackjack Ready GR rims + Hutchinson 11 Storm Fusion5 Tubeless Ready.
But when I removed the tyres it had a tube in there. Result! (well, in my humble opinion anyway)

The rim & tyre seem well suited - the tyre was a tight fit, but it didn't take any extra tools to remove it.

Anyway, my long-winded point is:
- try adding a tube


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## doctorf (18 Jul 2020)

SteveBN said:


> Has anyone else had a problem with not being able to turn their Gain on. I've had mine for 18 month or so and recently it's developed this issue. I've been able to fix it by plugging the charger in (light comes on) then leaving it for a minute or so before going out on a ride. However, today I left home with a 100% charge but then stopped off for 5 minutes or so. When I tried to turn the bike back on it failed to do so, so ended up riding/pushing the 25 miles back home with it switched off. Painful. Plugged it in when I finally arrived , light came on straight away and app shows battery still has 81% charge!


Hi Steve,
I have developed a very similar problem.
At first it would only switch on by plugging the charger in.
Now I can switch on, but when I switch off with either of the TWOCs, it switches back on again within 10 seconds.
I can ride it fine, but there is an obvious fault.
I have no local dealer who can look at it for many weeks and I suspect they will not be able to sort it out that easily anyway without replacing parts.
A reboot button would be a great help, or access to the mechanic's app.


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## Scaleyback (27 Jul 2020)

I have just read on the MAHLE ebikemotion page under ‘USERS’ a list of 
advice/recommendations that include:-
How to calibrate the battery. 
Advice is to periodically discharge the battery to 0% before recharging to 100%.

First time I have read this ! and I have certainly never done it. In fact in almost 3,000 miles I don’t think my battery has ever been below 25% ?

Do other Gain owners practice this ? 
Anyone know why would the battery need calibrating and possible repercussions of not doing so. Thoughts ?


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## doctorf (29 Jul 2020)

Well quite unbelievably the problem with not being able to switch off has been sorted by allowing the battery to go flat and then re-charging.
I don't really understand how this is possible but who cares!


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## doctorf (29 Jul 2020)

doctorf said:


> Well quite unbelievably the problem with not being able to switch off has been sorted by allowing the battery to go flat and then re-charging.
> I don't really understand how this is possible but who cares!


Edit:
I just looked at the bike and it has switched itself back on.
Booked into a dealer in a couple of weeks but I'm not optimistic that they will be able to sort it without a fault code on the app.


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## RikF30 (5 Aug 2020)

I'm new on this thread, and recently bought a F30 gain. I have noticed that battery performance/capacity from 50% to 0% is markedly less that the upper 50% (ie 100% to 50%). Worse the telemetry from the app, on at least 2 occasions, shows the battery dropping from about 20% to 5% in 100m. Any thoughts or feedback on battery capacity appreciated. Note also i dont expect linear discharge from the battery but the drop off is very significant. Whereas the top half gives me 40-50 km (always at level one) the bottom half struggles to provide power for 20km.


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## Scaleyback (5 Aug 2020)

Wish I could help you RikF30. The 3,000 miles I have completed on my Gain have almost exclusively been between 100% and approx 40% battery and 90+% of that between 85% and 40%. I started charging up to approx 85% a few months into ownership. I haven’t noticed any significant difference in battery performance/capacity throughout the range of use.


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## JRTemple (7 Aug 2020)

mine is pretty consistent all the way through, 50% at around 30 miles in and 30 miles later i'm on 10% as long as I don't increase it from level 1, it's like MPG on a car, if you do the first half driving sensibly then put it in sports mode your MPG will decrease


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## Southernguns (9 Aug 2020)

RikF30 said:


> I'm new on this thread, and recently bought a F30 gain. I have noticed that battery performance/capacity from 50% to 0% is markedly less that the upper 50% (ie 100% to 50%). Worse the telemetry from the app, on at least 2 occasions, shows the battery dropping from about 20% to 5% in 100m. Any thoughts or feedback on battery capacity appreciated. Note also i dont expect linear discharge from the battery but the drop off is very significant. Whereas the top half gives me 40-50 km (always at level one) the bottom half struggles to provide power for 20km.


I noticed a very rapid drop from 20% - 0% the first time I let it go that low. I have let it drop to 0% once since and this time is was much more what I would expect. I cannot comment anymore than this as all other times it is kept above 30%.


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## youngoldbloke (10 Aug 2020)

Similar happened to me too. Was down to less than 20% at the end of a long ride and increased assistance level to help tired legs over last mile or so up a long drag. Instead of helping all power rapidly drained and I had to finish the ride painfully without help. I've not needed to drop that low since so don't know whether this was a one off occurrence or not.


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## Scaleyback (19 Aug 2020)

Here are the results of a unscientific test I did on the performance of my Orbea Gain battery.
Hopefully this may help potential buyers and pertinent to a few recent posts will include my findings on the performance of the battery
when on it's last 25% of charge.
As with all e-bikes the largest single variable is the rider, and so for newcomers here who haven't 'slogged' their way through 60 odd pages
I include the following. I am 73 years of age and approx 71kgs. The last few years I have ridden 4,000- 5,000 miles a year shared between
my Gain and an indoor trainer setup with a dedicated bike on a Tacx Neo smart trainer.
My Gain is a 2019 D30 (shimano 105) which has completed 2,885 largely 'blameless' miles. It is fitted with full mudguards
and rides on 38mm 'gravel' tyres. On the road with water bottle and my added accessories it weighs approx 16.5 kgs !
I ride almost exclusively in the lowest assistance setting and I have my 'engine settings' at Lowest=90%. Medium=80%. High=70%.

This 'test' came about after reading the MAHLE ebikemotion page advice/recommendations that include:-
_"How to calibrate the battery: Advice is to periodically discharge the battery to 0% before recharging to 100%_

Prior to this test my battery had never been discharged to 0% and has been overwhelmingly used in the 25>85% range.
So my battery was 'run down' to 0% and charged to 100% and for clarity I will detail my 7 rides over 10 days.

Miles/ Time/ Avg speed/ Elevation Gain/ Battery used/ Battery remaining
1. 19.89 1:15:14 15.9mph 558ft 12% 88%
2. 23.99 1:27:53 16.4mph 774ft 13% 75%
3. 16.50 1:00:49 16.3mph 449ft 12% 63%
4. 23.37 1:30:12 15.5mph 1,247ft 22% 41%
5. 19.15 1:09:34 16.5mph 891ft 14% 27%
6. 19.13 1:07:00 17.1mph 890ft 11% 16%
7. 19.15 1:08:53 16.7mph 892ft 11% 5%
(N:B Ride 5/6/7 same route)
.
Totals.......................................................................
141.18 Miles 16.34 Avg speed 5701 feet 95% used 5% remaining

Observations. I have to be happy with the total mileage but not a lot of climbing involved (bearing in mind the mileage)
The total mileage would fall significantly as the Elevation gained increased.
Ride 7 I felt 'knackered' from the start, borne out by comparison with ride 6 but 11% battery used on both rides ?
All rides only lowest assistance used.
Rides 5/6/7 were chosen to gauge battery performance over the same course/conditions over the last 27% of remaining battery charge.
I see no significant difference in these 3 rides, and my battery seems to discharge linearly ?

I guess battery discharge may seem inordinately high towards the end of a ride, if you have maybe increased the assistance level ?
You are tired and your cadence has slowed ? I understand the Gain motor balances power output against rider input based on cadence.
There is no torque sensor as on some e-bikes.
Ok, I have filled an hour or two and exercised my tiny brain doing this but feel free to tell me if you think I'm talking 'tosh'

P.S Oops ! I tabulated the Miles / Time / Avg Speed etc and it shows fine on my hard copy but after submission the tabulation is missing ? Hope it makes sense ?


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## Southernguns (19 Aug 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Here are the results of a unscientific test I did on the performance of my Orbea Gain battery.
> Hopefully this may help potential buyers and pertinent to a few recent posts will include my findings on the performance of the battery
> when on it's last 25% of charge.
> As with all e-bikes the largest single variable is the rider, and so for newcomers here who haven't 'slogged' their way through 60 odd pages
> ...


Wow, at 73 that is pretty impressive riding. My average speeds are about the same but my battery use is much higher. I have put my battery power settings back to 100% on all three levels currently due to my back playing up again and wanting max assistance, but even so my battery drain is normally around 1.5x the distance I have ridden with similar elevation gain to yourself. Eg a 20 mile ride would drain 30% of the battery when used on its lowest level. 

It makes an interesting read and thank you for all your time and effort Scaley.


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## Scaleyback (20 Aug 2020)

B


Southernguns said:


> Wow, at 73 that is pretty impressive riding. My average speeds are about the same but my battery use is much higher. I have put my battery power settings back to 100% on all three levels currently due to my back playing up again and wanting max assistance, but even so my battery drain is normally around 1.5x the distance I have ridden with similar elevation gain to yourself. Eg a 20 mile ride would drain 30% of the battery when used on its lowest level.
> 
> It makes an interesting read and thank you for all your time and effort Scaley.



" Wow, at 73 that is pretty impressive riding "

Thanks Neil, you are too kind 
I have lost a 'fair bit' in the last couple of years,  I cannot keep my output so high for so long and I don't recover as quickly, c'est la vie.
I wasn't trying to impress, I know many old (older) guys who 'blow me away' When looking at e-bike performance the usual question is
" how many miles do you get out of the battery " so potential 'Gain' newcomers need to factor in the rider plus the terrain and conditions of course
so I tried to give a reasonable overview.
Ride On my friend.


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## youngoldbloke (20 Aug 2020)

I'm only 72*, but need to use assistance all the time, mostly at the lowest level, but sometimes level 2 on hills. though no major climbs for me. My average is only around 12mph, so the battery is being used for much of the ride, as a result I estimate I'm fairly consistently using 2% battery for each mile covered, and a safe range of only around 40 - 45 miles.

edit * just realised almost 73


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## Scaleyback (20 Aug 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'm only 72*, but need to use assistance all the time, mostly at the lowest level, but sometimes level 2 on hills. though no major climbs for me. My average is only around 12mph, so the battery is being used for much of the ride, as a result I estimate I'm fairly consistently using 2% battery for each mile covered, and a safe range of only around 40 - 45 miles.
> 
> edit * just realised almost 73



Hi Peter,
Hopefully your " safe range of only around 40 - 45 miles " is sufficient for your needs ? I guess there is always the extender battery if needed ?


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## Sigma501 (22 Aug 2020)

Good morning all, I have really enjoyed reading the last 62 pages in tge search for my first e-bike. I love cycling, but due to a previous heart attack and pulmonary Sarcoidosis, I really struggle on the climbs around my home which can be 10% for in excess of a mile to a 600ft climb in less than half a mile.

I am torn between the Orbea Gain D20 and the Giant Road E Pro+1. I can see that the battery in the Giant is bigger and that it is crank driven. The majority of my rides are 60 miles in length and my intent would be to only use the motor for climbing, using my own power for the straights. 

Cognisant that this an Orbea page I would be grateful for a view on whether i would be better purchasing the D20 and the additional battery for the same price of the Giant.


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## richtea (22 Aug 2020)

> Good morning all, I have really enjoyed reading the last 62 pages ...


If you're only intending to use assistance on hills (as I do on my Orbea), then you may not need the extra battery on the Orbea. I find 70-80 miles is possible, but your area looks slightly hillier than round me.
If you do go Orbea, I'd hold off until you've done a few trips, see how you get on, and you might save £400-500.

(I can't comment on the Giant - never tried one, sorry.)


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## Scaleyback (23 Aug 2020)

Sigma501 said:


> Good morning all, I have really enjoyed reading the last 62 pages in tge search for my first e-bike. I love cycling, but due to a previous heart attack and pulmonary Sarcoidosis, I really struggle on the climbs around my home which can be 10% for in excess of a mile to a 600ft climb in less than half a mile.
> 
> I am torn between the Orbea Gain D20 and the Giant Road E Pro+1. I can see that the battery in the Giant is bigger and that it is crank driven. The majority of my rides are 60 miles in length and my intent would be to only use the motor for climbing, using my own power for the straights.
> 
> Cognisant that this an Orbea page I would be grateful for a view on whether i would be better purchasing the D20 and the additional battery for the same price of the Giant.



I have to admit your post sends me 'mixed messages' ? No intention to offend in my reply.
You have of course run this intended regimen past your doctor/cardiologist ? I ask because the few cyclists I know with previous heart problems
have invariably told me they are advised to not 'overdo' it ! e.g don't exceed a given HR beats per minute etc.
Disclaimer: I own a Gain D30 and have no experience of the Giant Road E Pro+1.
However a little googling and I find a 'claimed' weight of 19kg (41.8lbs) for the Giant. I stress claimed because all bikes (on the road)
are heavier than the marketing bull***t claims. They weigh them without pedals, reflectors, bells and with 'skinny tyres. I would assume this Giant is at least 20kg 
The Gain D20 claimed weight is 13.6 Kg + extender of 1.6Kg I would expect this combo to weigh not far off 16Kg (OTR)
So a useful saving of approx 4 Kg.
" _my intent would be to only use the motor for climbing, using my own power for the straights"_
I can only assume you mean manually switching the battery power off ? you do know that once you are travelling at approx 25kph (15.5mph)
you are 'using' your own power don't you ? this of course depends on the individual rider, many (myself included) travel at +25kph
on flattish roads. (wind permitting)
Lets assume you are riding the Giant, on roads with traffic. Everytime you have to stop at a junction, lights etc are you going to switch the battery power back on or are you going to propel that 20kg bike up to speed yourself ? Don't underestimate this ! if you are turning right, crossing lanes you cannot afford to be 'labouring' to get that 20Kg rolling.
Roads are rarely flat for any appreciable distance, factor in the constant little 1%, 2%, 3% etc slopes 'scrubbing' off your gained speed. Trust me
a 20kg e-bike quickly feels like you are pulling a trailer on any incline. Everything also applies to the gain D20 of course but minus 4kg.
You get my point I hope ? imo you have to have the battery assist available all the time
Ok, I talk to much, always.  Just my opinions and only trying to help.


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## plustwos (23 Aug 2020)

Sigma501 said:


> Good morning all, I have really enjoyed reading the last 62 pages in tge search for my first e-bike. I love cycling, but due to a previous heart attack and pulmonary Sarcoidosis, I really struggle on the climbs around my home which can be 10% for in excess of a mile to a 600ft climb in less than half a mile.
> 
> I am torn between the Orbea Gain D20 and the Giant Road E Pro+1. I can see that the battery in the Giant is bigger and that it is crank driven. The majority of my rides are 60 miles in length and my intent would be to only use the motor for climbing, using my own power for the straights.
> 
> Cognisant that this an Orbea page I would be grateful for a view on whether i would be better purchasing the D20 and the additional battery for the same price of the Giant.



You don't say how old you are. I'm 84 and I agree with Scaleyback's comments; the warnings I had from medics about overdoing it led me to forget a road bike, (neck trouble prevents me from using drops anyway) and settle for a Hybrid, which says, "Don't show off", every time I look at it. I'm fortunate to live on a plain with short stiff climbs resulting from ice age deposits, so I tend to ride easy without power and switch on for the slopes and especially when crossing main roads. Waiting for a break in traffic and accelerating across on a heavy bike takes some getting used to. The Orbea does look gorgeous but one has to grow old gracefully)
Ken


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## Scaleyback (23 Aug 2020)

plustwos said:


> You don't say how old you are. I'm 84 and I agree with Scaleyback's comments; etc etc



Hi Ken, 
Well I have to say it is nice to be agreed with, I must show this to my wife .
Huge well done to you for ‘cycling on’ at the venerable age of 84. I am a mere lad of 73. Good to hear from you.
Roy


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## plustwos (23 Aug 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Hi Ken,
> Good to hear from you.
> Roy



Gosh! From a Senior member! I was saying to my wife this morning what a nice bunch of people post here)
Ken


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## G3CWI (23 Aug 2020)

plustwos said:


> I was saying to my wife this morning what a nice bunch of people post here)


You're clearly new here...


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## richtea (24 Aug 2020)

richtea said:


> The Gain only has 1x spoke lacing (or at least that's what my D50 has), which isn't ideal for strength.
> I'm having my wheels rebuilt in 2-3 weeks time as a precaution, but I do weigh more than the average bear.
> I've seen 2x lacing and 3x lacing on eBikeMotion hubs (Cannondale and Bianchi respectively), so it shouldn't be hard to improve on the factory lacing.
> I'll to come back to the thread at some point, and let you know how it goes.


A quick update now I've been riding my rebuilt Gain wheels for about 6 weeks:
- they were built by Malcolm Borg
- they're 2x lacing for extra strength
- tube-only rims so I can mend punctures easily
- lead time was 4 weeks in the end
- cost was £180 inc P&P for both wheels (they would normally be a little more, but he had a pair of shop-soiled rims that suited)

I weigh 115Kg, so I'm quite a challenge for wheels, and that's presumably why the original Orbea wheels were already creaking after a few hundred miles of, er, heavy use. The new ones are rock solid, very evenly tensioned, no creaks, squeaks, etc. I'm very impressed, and I'd definitely recommend his wheelbuilding. He now knows the spoke sizes required for a Gain hub (or any other ebikemotion bikes) for any future orders.

Only one oddity - the original tyres (Hutchinson) wouldn't sit evenly in the new rims. Not sure why, but they always had one spot higher than the rest of the tyre - as though the tyres were slightly oversized. I had bought Conti Gatorskins anyway (for better puncture protection) and the problem was solved. The Hutchinsons were 'tubeless ready' if that makes a difference, but I'd still expect them to fit a tubed rim.


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## Scaleyback (24 Aug 2020)

richtea said:


> A quick update now I've been riding my rebuilt Gain wheels for about 6 weeks:
> - they were built by Malcolm Borg



How does that work then richtea ? do you send the complete wheels in to Malcolm Borg and he removes the motor and builds the new wheel around it ?


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## samsbike (24 Aug 2020)

sigma, I ride a 20kg hybrid and have ridden it without the motor powering it. Getting it going takes a bit of going but some of it is also due to gearing. I attempted for the first time in months to ride it in the woods without the motor, it was doable but I was on the first 2 gears except going downhill. 

I would echo what someone up there said - although I am not sure why you need another battery. 

My preference would be to get the Giant, mainly because of my personal preference in having a crank motor and easier to fix punctures (in my head anyway) and the bigger battery.

The motor automatically switches on and off, so I am not sure why you need to worry about switching it on and off.

10% climbs are pretty hard for me using low power on an ebike so kudos to you.


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## Scaleyback (24 Aug 2020)

‘Samsbike’ removing the rear wheel on the Orbea Gain (to repair a puncture) is easy. One electrical connection (push/pull) and the correct size hex key. As with most(all ?) of these ebikes the wheels do not have quick release.


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## richtea (24 Aug 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> How does that work then richtea ? do you send the complete wheels in to Malcolm Borg and he removes the motor and builds the new wheel around it ?


Correct! Although in my case to make it a bit simpler on the posting front, I took the original Orbea wheels apart*, and just sent the two hubs to him. I don't believe he'll consider using the Orbea rims anyway - he'll want to use rims and spokes he trusts, since he's guaranteeing the wheels.

If you do send them to him just hubs, only one thing different that I'd politely ask him to do: put a little more packing / protection material (decent amount of bubble wrap) around the rear hub. Once built, my rear wheel was chunky enough to start trying to making it's way sideways through the travel box he put the wheels in (which wouldn't happen with your average lightweight rear hub - but a 2Kg hub is a different matter). No damage done, but the cardboard was getting indented by the axle by the time they reached me.

Of course, if you send him whole wheels, you can do your own packing, and ask him to use the same packing for the return journey.

Oh, one other bit of advice - order and pay upfront (he'll say x weeks lead time) - hang on to your wheels until week x -1, and then send them in. Then you're only without your wheels for 1-2 weeks.

* discs off, gear cluster off, and then unscrew & remove all the spokes. About an hour's work, I'd say.


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## Scaleyback (26 Aug 2020)

‘richtea’ It seems you have a Boardman 8.9E as well as the Orbea Gain ? Care to give us your thoughts on a comparison between the two bikes ?


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## richtea (26 Aug 2020)

Well spotted Scaleyback. I have 2 Orbea Gains (D50 & F40), and Ms Richtea has the women's Boardman HYB 8.9e.
The Gain D50 is virtually new, and F40 is bust (eBay bargain/project). It's in the throes of being fixed.

Some history - both purchases were to replace our 20-30 year-old tourers, and the split in choice was financial.
The aim was to get lightweight ebikes - & therefore light but sufficient assistance.

*Summary*
The Boardman is a marginally better design overall, but at a correspondingly higher price.
The Orbea is better than I expected. I bought it nearly-new as an experiment - expecting to sell it again, but I love it.
Just supposing they were the same price, I'd buy a Boardman/Fazua, but it's not that much better that I'd swap over now.

Even though the bikes are the most basic models available, compared to a 20 year-old steel tourer neither will disappoint. They're close to the weight of a Dawes Super Galaxy (maybe 1-2Kgs more), and they basically let you tackle rides you would have done, well, 20 years ago.

*Design*
Boardman (Fazua):
- very tidy hub drive & battery design. Properly thought out. Weight is centralised.
- removable battery for easy charging
- better battery connector. Again properly thought out.
- easy to go up & down power levels
- standard wheels (no hub motor) so you can swap wheel sets, if you want
- original battery removal mechanism could be better. I'm OK with it, but a lot of people dislike it, and Fazua have now improved it.
- the hub drive bolts can work loose. Easy to fix if you know how to use a Torx key, worrying if you don't.
- you can't switch the battery on from the handlebar controller. You have to switch the battery on itself first, then insert it. However, it will then stay on idle for 8 hours, so not a big problem.
- pedal backwards and you get a loud clicking noise from the centre hub freewheel. You just learn not to.

Orbea Gain (ebikemotion):
- lighter weight system (but it's only marginal)
- the Orbea is more of a standard ebike design, but well hidden (battery in frame, motor in rear wheel hub)
- non-removable battery (a problem in mid-winter if you have a cold garage like us - you have to bring the bike into the house to charge it)
- 1-button controller cycles through the power settings 1,2,3,0, 1,2,3,0..., not as nice as being able to go up & down with a single click (flat bar Orbeas come with an up/down controller like the Fazua, but not the drop bar models)
- Orbea wheels seem so-so quality with only 1x lacing, but I am a very heavy rider so others may be fine with the standard wheels

Both have mudguard and rack mounting points, and room for wide tyres, so they're very practical if you add the extras.
Both are near-silent, and both roll freely with the assistance off.
Both have 250W motors. Plenty enough for us.

*Power*
On the flat and gentle inclines/small hills both are a joy to ride. They're both smooth, they both ease off at 15.5mph+ with no issues.
The power levels are customisable on both systems' apps, but we haven't needed to fiddle.

The Boardman seems to give better power at low speeds, ie. crawling up very steep hills, whereas the Gain power decreases at very low speeds. The power is still there, but ideally you need to pedal the Orbea at say 6mph or more, so very steep hills can be a challenge. I get up them (which I couldn't do previously), but you definitely work up a sweat.
I think the difference is that the Boardman/Fazua has a torque sensor to decide how much power to dispense, whereas the Gain just senses the rear wheel rotation - which is necessarily slow up steep hills.

*Battery life*
Tricky, this one. The Boardman seems to use up battery quicker, but I think it's purely down to Ms Richtea using it more often than I do. She manages 40-50 miles on a charge, I manage 80-100, but that's because I only switch on for the steeper hills. Neither range limits us at the moment.

*Reliability*
- too early to say. No real problems, but from my second Orbea I can see it's possible that some people might mess up the wheel removal/replacing. The Orbea motor wire needs to be positioned correctly (but copious instructions are given in the handbook).
- Both are completely custom systems, so most/all repairs will have to use OEM parts and the official dealer. That may change in the long term if enough units are sold to create a 3rd party market.

*Parts*
- I've never needed to buy parts for the Boardman, but some Orbea parts seem a little rare. Not clear why, but possibly all the parts are going into new bikes during Covid-19.

*Price*
- Fazuas are pricey, with Boardman and Canyon being the 'bargains' at £2200 - 2800
- Orbeas (ebikemotion) are generally £1900 - 2400 for the basic models, a significant saving


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## richtea (27 Aug 2020)

Re: Fazua:
> - you can't switch the battery on from the handlebar controller. You have to switch the battery on itself first, then insert it.

Fazua have just announced a fix for that:
https://fazua.com/en/drive-system/evation/evation-remotes/

> Battery on/off** 
Available on Remote fX for serial numbers > 4211203001
And next year on the new Remote bX

Future Fazua purchasers should look for these improvements when buying. Current owners will have to shell out, though.

Seeing such improvements from Fazua (and on the redesigned battery release mechanism) reminds me that they're making an effort, and that the ebikemotion design seems quite static. Another tick to Fazua for 'continuous improvement'.


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## Scaleyback (27 Aug 2020)

Thanks ‘richtea’ that’s really interesting.
I am a big fan of Chris Boardman (great bloke) and Boardman bikes and have previously owned two. I believe CB has ‘sold up’ and doesn’t own the brand now ?
I owned the Boardman 8.9 Adventure prior to me getting my Gain D30. The equivalent ‘E’ bike is the one I would go for Boardman 8.9E.
I have read quite a bit about owners struggling with the Fazua battery pack installation/removal and locking. Good to hear they have sorted/are sorting it out. 
Compared to my Gain, I like the removable battery and the mid drive purely because it makes wheel upgrade easy. These GR Ready wheels on my Gain are poorly built and let the bike down. Reassuring to see the Boardman is supplied with my ‘tyres of choice’ the Schwalbe G-One (great tyres) 
However, I cannot really justify a 3rd bike (2nd e-bike) so I will have to admire from a distance.


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## richtea (27 Aug 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> I am a big fan of Chris Boardman (great bloke) and Boardman bikes and have previously owned two. I believe CB has ‘sold up’ and doesn’t own the brand now ?
> 
> These GR Ready wheels on my Gain are poorly built and let the bike down. Reassuring to see the Boardman is supplied with my ‘tyres of choice’ the Schwalbe G-One (great tyres)
> 
> However, I cannot really justify a 3rd bike (2nd e-bike) so I will have to admire from a distance.



Yup, Boardman has been wholely owned by Halfords since 2014.

And agreed on both your other points!


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## Denishu (4 Sep 2020)

Has anyone found a solution to stop the ebikemotion app crashing?


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## youngoldbloke (5 Sep 2020)

Denishu said:


> Has anyone found a solution to stop the ebikemotion app crashing?


Short answer: No - Never know what to expect after the latest 'upgrade'. I've found it quite unreliable recently after a longish stable period. Just take comfort that IME it used to be worse!


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## youngoldbloke (22 Sep 2020)

Anyone else finding the EBM app taking ages to load - and I do mean ages - many, many minutes. Is there an easy fix? Uninstall and reinstall?


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## Scaleyback (28 Sep 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Anyone else finding the EBM app taking ages to load - and I do mean ages - many, many minutes. Is there an easy fix? Uninstall and reinstall?



Sorry for the late reply. I only use the app to check battery levels before I ride but I haven’t noticed any downgrade in performance. Just checked my battery now and the app was pretty quick.


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## youngoldbloke (28 Sep 2020)

Cheers - think I'll try reinstalling it. Have seen the latest Gains? Much tidier looking.


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## Scaleyback (29 Sep 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Cheers - think I'll try reinstalling it. Have seen the latest Gains? Much tidier looking.



No I haven’t. Just had a look at the 2020 D30 (105) same as mine. I cannot see any difference ?


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## Somerford (30 Sep 2020)

ScaryFast75 said:


> Update just received Orbea Range Extender and getting error code BMS 194 ... blinking purple .. haven’t even used it yet...so disappointing... I’ve contacted Mikes Bikes whom I purchased it from but lately their customer service has been slow at best and poor at worse... also emailed Mahle and Orbea... there is a Quality Control green Sticker’s the bottom of battery but apparently that’s useless ... see pics


I have had the same problem. My LBS has replaced two Range Extender Batteries within weeks of one another. A third is awaited from Orbea, Spain. It seems there is a serious problem with these batteries and Irbea are trying to resolve this. Sadly not a good advert for the Orbea Gain which I must admit has been absolutely brilliant for me so far. 
Let’s hope they resolve it soon.


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## youngoldbloke (30 Sep 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> No I haven’t. Just had a look at the 2020 D30 (105) same as mine. I cannot see any difference ?


Perhaps just the carbon framed versions 2021 Gains. Hidden cables. lighting, updated electrics. BTW glad I didn't get a range extender yet, given the problem some are having with them.


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## richtea (30 Sep 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Perhaps just the carbon framed versions 2021 Gains. Hidden cables. lighting, updated electrics. BTW glad I didn't get a range extender yet, given the problem some are having with them.


Most of D models* also have the hidden cables, even the basic D50:
https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain/cat/gain-d50

The internal cable design is very tidy, I have to say. And you get a display and lights included.
Now slightly jealous.

*But not the very cheapest:
https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain/cat/gain-d50-lr-20


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## theboxers (7 Nov 2020)

richtea said:


> Re: Fazua:
> > - you can't switch the battery on from the handlebar controller. You have to switch the battery on itself first, then insert it.
> 
> Fazua have just announced a fix for that:
> ...


The remote switch bX or fX on only works with the new X battery from what I've read.


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## richtea (8 Nov 2020)

theboxers said:


> The remote switch bX or fX on only works with the new X battery from what I've read.


I think the remotes all still work with old batteries. It's just the extra features that will only work on the new battery - i.e. ability to switch battery on/off from the controller. See here for matrix:
https://fazua.com/en/drive-system/evation/evation-remotes/

Remote fX + battery on/off feature supported?:
- Yes for serial numbers > 4211203001 and only in combination with a Battery 250 X (available from Nov. 2020)

Remove bX + battery on/off feature supported?:
- Yes, only in combination with a Battery 250 X (available from Nov. 2020)


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## youngoldbloke (22 Nov 2020)

Just come across this on the web - https://www.speedfun.bike/en/new-speedfun-ghost-ebike-tuning-for-ebikemotion-x35/
Anyone bought one?


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## Slick (22 Nov 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just come across this on the web - https://www.speedfun.bike/en/new-speedfun-ghost-ebike-tuning-for-ebikemotion-x35/
> Anyone bought one?


Due to a house move and an extended hilly commute, I was considering an ebike but would it really be necessary to chip it in this way? I know we are all different but the current regulations seem pretty reasonable to me.


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## youngoldbloke (22 Nov 2020)

Slick said:


> Due to a house move and an extended hilly commute, I was considering an ebike but would it really be necessary to chip it in this way? I know we are all different but the current regulations seem pretty reasonable to me.


No - I don't think so, and it would be illegal to do so of course. But on occasion I would have welcomed another 2-3 mph assistance - when on a club ride on those stretches where the speed drifts up and over 15.5 mph. It can be hard work trying to stay with the group, maintaining that sort of speed over fair distances on what is actually quite a heavy bike. IMO a 20mph assistance level would be more realistic for such e-ROAD bikes.


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## Slick (22 Nov 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> No - I don't think so, and it would be illegal to do so of course. But on occasion I would have welcomed another 2-3 mph assistance - when on a club ride on those stretches where the speed drifts up and over 15.5 mph. It can be hard work trying to stay with the group, maintaining that sort of speed over fair distances on what is actually quite a heavy bike. IMO a 20mph assistance level would be more realistic for such e-ROAD bikes.


Fair enough, enjoy.


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## richtea (22 Nov 2020)

The 15.5mph limit can be a problem if you're group riding with fit people.
You hit a gentle incline that your group takes at more than 15.5mph, and you'll get no assistance, plus you're moving ~2-4Kg extra weight.

Were that limit a little higher - say 18mph - you'd probably be OK, and be able stick with them.

However, if you're like me and ride with Billy Nomates, you'll be just fine!


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## youngoldbloke (23 Nov 2020)

Riding with Billy Nomates myself nowadays - not much choice at the current time 😷


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## theboxers (8 Dec 2020)

richtea said:


> I think the remotes all still work with old batteries. It's just the extra features that will only work on the new battery - i.e. ability to switch battery on/off from the controller. See here for matrix:
> https://fazua.com/en/drive-system/evation/evation-remotes/
> 
> Remote fX + battery on/off feature supported?:
> ...


That's what my poorly worded post was meant to say 😕


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## theboxers (8 Dec 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> Just come across this on the web - https://www.speedfun.bike/en/new-speedfun-ghost-ebike-tuning-for-ebikemotion-x35/
> Anyone bought one?


I may have something very similar on my Fazua equipped bike . It works very well, allegedly , at assisting the regulation of the of the motor .

Owing to the way I use the assist on my bike I am very rarely on assist power on the flat up to 6 or 7%. The motor is a bail out mechanism to me for lifting my mammoth weight up the steeper hills.


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## Southernguns (8 Dec 2020)

Hi all. Sorry to change the subject but a quick question - Can anyone recommend some decent mudguards (fenders, for the American contingent) for the Gain D30? I'm fed up with a getting a muddy back.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Dec 2020)

I'm using SKS Bluemels Matt 45 Road Mudguards (matt black with mudflaps) on mine. Should be plenty of clearance for 32mm tyres, if required, though I have 25mm front and 28mm back fitted at the moment.


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## richtea (8 Dec 2020)

youngoldbloke said:


> I'm using SKS Bluemels Matt 45 Road Mudguards (matt black with mudflaps) on mine. Should be plenty of clearance for 32mm tyres, if required, though I have 25mm front and 28mm back fitted at the moment.


There's room for 28-38mm, they claim.


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## NickWi (8 Dec 2020)

I've been using these : https://www.sks-germany.com/en/products/edge-al/ on my D20 Gain for the last year or so. 

Bottom line is they're fit and forget and they don't rattle.


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## Scaleyback (8 Dec 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Hi all. Sorry to change the subject but a quick question - Can anyone recommend some decent mudguards (fenders, for the American contingent) for the Gain D30? I'm fed up with a getting a muddy back.



Neil, see my post #394 from 22 July 2019..


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## Southernguns (9 Dec 2020)

Thank you everyone. You've all been very helpful. It looks like sks are the brand to go with. I am running 35mm tyres so should be okay with any of the suggested models. There are some reports online of the Bluemels cracking due to vibrations caused by the not so smooth British roads. Have any of you guys experienced this?


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## Southernguns (9 Dec 2020)

Scaleyback said:


> Neil, see my post #394 from 22 July 2019..


Hey, Scaley. Thank you. I knew I had read about it somewhere and looked back through some of the thread but could not find it.


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## richtea (10 Dec 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Thank you everyone. You've all been very helpful. It looks like sks are the brand to go with. I am running 35mm tyres so should be okay with any of the suggested models. There are some reports online of the Bluemels cracking due to vibrations caused by the not so smooth British roads. Have any of you guys experienced this?


I've had Blumels fitted to my bikes for about 30 years. They will break, but you do have to directly abuse them - the road has never done that on it's own. I broke one pair after ~15 years. I jammed a lot of fairly solid mud in it if I remember rightly, and distorted it (riding off-road with very tight clearance on a 28mm tyre - all my own work).


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## Southernguns (11 Dec 2020)

richtea said:


> I've had Blumels fitted to my bikes for about 30 years. They will break, but you do have to directly abuse them - the road has never done that on it's own. I broke one pair after ~15 years. I jammed a lot of fairly solid mud in it if I remember rightly, and distorted it (riding off-road with very tight clearance on a 28mm tyre - all my own work).


Cheers Richtea. I had pretty much made up my mind to go with the Edge model but now you have me thinking about the Bluemels again - hehe! I think they may be slightly longer than the Edge and have a flap as well which will offer a bit more protection.


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## Scaleyback (14 Dec 2020)

Southernguns said:


> Cheers Richtea. I had pretty much made up my mind to go with the Edge model but now you have me thinking about the Bluemels again - hehe! I think they may be slightly longer than the Edge and have a flap as well which will offer a bit more protection.



Neil, never underestimate the flap ! everyone needs a flap.


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## NickWi (13 Jan 2021)

Anticipating the weather to be a bit kinder (relatively speaking) last Sunday I pumped up the tyres and charged both the main and extra range battery ready for a ride. As happens, life bit me in the bum, that ride never happened and here I am left with two batteries charged at 100% and with no immediate prospect of being able to go out for a ride to use up a bit of power to get below the 80% or so much bantered about safe maximum percentage for storage. To slightly mis-quote Meatloaf, "All charged up with no place to go".

So, is there a way of discharging the battery on a Gain other than the bleeding obvious of going out for a ride (which because of what else happened on Sunday just isn’t going to happen next weekend or for several weekends to come)?


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## CXRAndy (13 Jan 2021)

Get a 3 car lamps Headlamps. Wire in series and connect to battery terminals. Keep connected for a few hours . That will discharge them

Or find a 100W resistor around 100 Ohms 

Or. Let someone else ride your bike for an hour on full assistance. That will drop voltage sufficiently


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## youngoldbloke (13 Jan 2021)

NickWi - excellent question. Buy a set of rollers maybe?


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## DeeBy (26 Jan 2021)

First post and ready to go down the LBS with a credit card this week for a Gain D40 2021 spec. However, the LBS can't offer trial rides right now (understandable). So looking for advice if I may (newbie alert)... 

Probably worth some background first... Trying to get fit at 60yrs and over 100Kg (but falling). Currently on a 16Kg MTB with a 1:0.9 ratio bottom gear (which I do use to keep going on gradients above 6%) and 26"x2.1 wheels. I can do 20 mile runs but still struggling above those 6% climbs of any length. Getting better every week and working to improve my fitness, so don't want a free ride up hills, but I'm hoping the Gain will mean I can be less scared of the climbs.

However, I'm becoming a bit concerned the Gain won't help me enough on hills (I read about low cadence reducing assistance plus larger wheels and the higher 1:1.1 bottom gear ratio). Would you guys say the Gain would give me "two gears worth" of assist on hills?
Any other advice from "less fit" (OK, very unfit) riders of my size before I part with cash?


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## Scaleyback (27 Jan 2021)

I hope you get more replies DeeBy, I found this forum very helpful 2 years ago when I got my D30 Gain.
I honestly don't feel able to advise you, I am a relative lightweight of 70kgs, 74 years of age and the bike is perfect for me but
" Would you guys say the Gain would give me "two gears worth" of assist on hills? " 
I don't know. By your words you obviously know that the Gain's motto is:-
" ENHANCE YOUR RIDE. We designed _Gain_ to improve your rides, not dominate them " 
Ergo,  the somewhat low 40nm of torque.
Good luck, it's a great bike . . . if it's the right bike ?


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## DeeBy (27 Jan 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I hope you get more replies DeeBy, I found this forum very helpful 2 years ago when I got my D30 Gain.
> I honestly don't feel able to advise you, I am a relative lightweight of 70kgs, 74 years of age and the bike is perfect for me but
> " Would you guys say the Gain would give me "two gears worth" of assist on hills? "
> I don't know. By your words you obviously know that the Gain's motto is:-
> ...


Yes, I know I need to work alongside the motor (I'm trying to get fitter) but just don't want to go backwards in terms of "scary climbs". TBH I think I'll take the risk... Thank you! Fantastic thread and resource for folk like me (now read every page).


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## NickWi (28 Jan 2021)

DeeBy said:


> First post and ready to go down the LBS .........................
> Any other advice from "less fit" (OK, very unfit) riders of my size before I part with cash?


Hi Deeby, I was in exactly the same boat as you when I bought my Gain in 2018. a bit overweight (still am), was fine riding on the flat and could cope with 20 or 25miles, but any more than that and even the slightest hint of a hill and that was me done and out he back of the group. The Gain answered all my needs. Riding on the lowest power is like riding with a gentle breeze behind you, sure you still have to pedal, but it's just easier and you roll over those little undulations. Real hills, no the Gain won't power you up, but it takes the sting out of them. You still need the lower gears and I still huff & puff, but I now get up the ones I used to get off and push. You mentioned cadence, the trick with the Gain is to keep it spinning. Use your gears, keep your legs turning and it assists. High gears and expect it to power you us and it'll bog down.

Looking at the longer term benefit of having a Gain, I guess I've riden more miles in the two & half years since i got my Gain than I had in the previous five put together. Despite what people say about electric bikes I am fitter than I was, I ride further, hill don't frighten me (as much), but maybe what more important of the lot is that I enjoy riding it. I go out more, go futher and with less trepidation of what if... I even do short Audaxs now on it which was pipe dream stuff only few years ago.

Buy one, you'll enjoy it.


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## DeeBy (28 Jan 2021)

NickWi said:


> Hi Deeby, I was in exactly the same boat as you when I bought my Gain in 2018. a bit overweight (still am), was fine riding on the flat and could cope with 20 or 25miles, but any more than that and even the slightest hint of a hill and that was me done and out he back of the group. The Gain answered all my needs. Riding on the lowest power is like riding with a gentle breeze behind you, sure you still have to pedal, but it's just easier and you roll over those little undulations. Real hills, no the Gain won't power you up, but it takes the sting out of them. You still need the lower gears and I still huff & puff, but I now get up the ones I used to get off and push. You mentioned cadence, the trick with the Gain is to keep it spinning. Use your gears, keep your legs turning and it assists. High gears and expect it to power you us and it'll bog down.
> 
> Looking at the longer term benefit of having a Gain, I guess I've riden more miles in the two & half years since i got my Gain than I had in the previous five put together. Despite what people say about electric bikes I am fitter than I was, I ride further, hill don't frighten me (as much), but maybe what more important of the lot is that I enjoy riding it. I go out more, go futher and with less trepidation of what if... I even do short Audaxs now on it which was pipe dream stuff only few years ago.
> 
> Buy one, you'll enjoy it.


Big thanks for this. Just the input I was looking for and what I was hoping would be the case.

Well, stop press, I went and did it... Just come back from the LBS. I pick up my white 2021 D40 on Sunday!

Thanks again to everyone on this forum. It's a treasure trove of info for folk like me...


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## richtea (28 Jan 2021)

DeeBy said:


> Probably worth some background first... Trying to get fit at 60yrs and over 100Kg (but falling). Currently on a 16Kg MTB with a 1:0.9 ratio bottom gear (which I do use to keep going on gradients above 6%) and 26"x2.1 wheels. I can do 20 mile runs but still struggling above those 6% climbs of any length. Getting better every week and working to improve my fitness, so don't want a free ride up hills, but I'm hoping the Gain will mean I can be less scared of the climbs.
> 
> However, I'm becoming a bit concerned the Gain won't help me enough on hills (I read about low cadence reducing assistance plus larger wheels and the higher 1:1.1 bottom gear ratio). Would you guys say the Gain would give me "two gears worth" of assist on hills?
> Any other advice from "less fit" (OK, very unfit) riders of my size before I part with cash?


It will.

110Kg, 6'4", 60 years - Orbea Gain D50. You can probably get up any hill, but anything more than 10% and you do need to put significant effort in. However it makes hills ridable. In 26 years of living near Edge Hill (as in Battle of), I've never managed to get up it - until the Gain. I was properly knackered at the top, but I (we?) got up it. Quite satisfying. With lesser hills you can choose your assistance, but that one is full power all the way.

Only one minor word of warning - the rear wheel of my D50 (not a D40) isn't that well built, so you may want to put £100-150 away in case of needing a stronger rear wheel. But try it first - you may get a better wheel than me.

I think you'll like it.


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## NickWi (28 Jan 2021)

DeeBy said:


> Big thanks for this. Just the input I was looking for and what I was hoping would be the case.
> 
> Well, stop press, I went and did it... Just come back from the LBS. I pick up my white 2021 D40 on Sunday!
> 
> Thanks again to everyone on this forum. It's a treasure trove of info for folk like me...



That's great and welcome to the club, now though a couple of the little foibles people don't tell you about. The top tube mounted power setting button takes a little getting used to and you have to scroll through the power settings, via off, just to go down a setting. You get used to it, but be warned you've got to take a hand off the handle bars to change assistance level, so don't do it over rough roads, at speed etc (and you will need to look down to start off with). Another good tip is if you see a hill coming up is to go up a power level before you need it, as I said previously, the motor likes you to spin the pedals. Lastly, at some point you will suffer from a new cycling problem for us ebikers, range anxiety!


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## richtea (29 Jan 2021)

NickWi said:


> The top tube mounted power setting button takes a little getting used to and you have to scroll through the power settings, via off, just to go down a setting.


You (or rather, the dealer) can add the iWoc Trio handlebar controller, if you don't get on with the single button. They're fitted to the flat bar Orbea Gains, and have Power up/down, and off buttons. One press for each power level, as you might normally expect. It also has haptic feedback so you don't have to look down.


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## DeeBy (31 Jan 2021)

Got it today and have done 10 miles and a few (previously unmanageable) hills. It's far exceeded my expectations. The iWoc button has given me no problems, was able to switch levels without looking down after 30 mins of practice. Planning a long ride tomorrow to get a good feel for it but so far...

Hills: I feel it subtracts about 5-10% off of a gradient (depending on the level of assist you ask for). So a 15% gradient is now do-able for me (albeit still out of breath). 20% still a struggle for me but I reckon I can just avoid them.

Overall avg speed: I ride 25% faster without the motor on (just due to it being a faster bike than my old decrepit MTB) and around 50% faster with the motor on level 2 (of 3). I averaged 12.5mph on my regular hilly route (normally 8.5mph).

Speed on flat: I think about 33% faster. My average on flat was 15mph (previously 10.5mph).

So, in summary, perfect for my needs (and my knees)... If any other beginners like me are wondering about bogging down on steep hills... Don't, it's fine unless you're looking at a monster hill.

PS, I had my LBS put 32mm Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres on (don't want punctures). They feel nice too.

Finally, if anyone has questions about the 2021 specs or whatever, happy to contribute if I can.


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## richtea (31 Jan 2021)

DeeBy said:


> Overall avg speed: I ride 25% faster without the motor on (just due to it being a faster bike than my old decrepit MTB)


Love that bit!
I had a similar experience of going from a well-made 20 year old steel audax/tourer to the 'cheapest' Gain.
The Gain is about the same weight, a much tighter ride, and more efficient. I was pleasantly surprised.

The D50 might be cheap, but the kit has moved on in 20 years. I suspect the longevity of the gears, chain, cogs etc, may not be as good as my old bike (Shimano Claris v 20-year old Campag) but I can always replace stuff another year.


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## steve_57 (4 Feb 2021)

Hi All

By way of introduction: I am 63 and live on the edge of the Peak District, average size and weight etc. I have been a regular cyclist for as long as I can remember. I had been considering an E-bike for some time due to the general ravages of time and a few mechanical aches and pains. 

I was lucky enough to buy an Orbea D20 last March, just before the first UK lockdown.

Before purchase I looked at all the different types but was still unsure which to go for. The things that swung it for the Orbea were that it didn't obviously look like an e-bike and if there wasn't enough power, I could always get the extra battery; something I haven't needed to do. The fact that other manufacturers were also using the same power system helped to instil confidence in it. Price was also a big factor, I could have perhaps stretched for a carbon version, but at the time the more relaxed geometry of the aluminium version decided it for me.

The only thing I didn't like about the bike was the saddle, which may be fine for some, but for me the purchase of a modern Brookes saddle was required. I also had to fit a short 25% raised handlebar stem to help give me a more relaxed riding position, due soley to a medical problem with my back. I have also purchased SKS detachable mudguards which fit in seconds once set up, I am very impressed with them.

I had read that the standard tyres supplied could be very difficult to remove; so I chose to convert them to tubless via the Local bike shop' who also supplied the bike. Two choices I don't regret. It is very reassuring not having to worry too much about punctures, especially on a cold wet day. When I had a small software issue (purple ring) it was very easy to drop it back in for a software update and there have been no problems since. 

The D20 enables me to enjoy longer and more frequent rides. I can also enjoy riding with fitter friends without becoming exhausted. I love it!


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## Scaleyback (4 Feb 2021)

steve_57 said:


> Hi All
> 
> By way of introduction: I am 63 and live on the edge of the Peak District, average size and weight etc. I have been a regular cyclist for as long as I can remember. I had been considering an E-bike for some time due to the general ravages of time and a few mechanical aches and pains.



Welcome Steve,
I have owned my Gain D30 for 2 years, however reading your post I have learnt something, so a software issue announces itself by a purple
ring on the iwoc button does it ? well blow me down. 
That's correct about removing the original tyres, I wrote the initial post on that issue when I had to cut the tyres off.
I'm 74, was 72 when I got my Gain and at 70kg and no physical impediments (except said age !) I was concerned that I was buying the Gain too soon and I would lose fitness. I needn't have worried. Most of the time I'm propelling this 16kg (on the road) heavyweight along over 15.5 mph
without assistance and 'struth' that keeps you fit. Like you it allows me to enjoy longer rides over hillier terrain and again like you I love this bike.
I have fixed SKS mudguards (I couldn't get on with the detachable ones) and 35c tyres which combined keep me clean and give a well 'cushioned' ride on our broken roads. Who cares about a little extra weight on an e-bike ?
So keep us up to date with your 'Gain experiences' new blood is very welcome, it's been a bit quiet around here.

Regards
Roy


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## steve_57 (5 Feb 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> Welcome Steve,
> I have owned my Gain D30 for 2 years, however reading your post I have learnt something, so a software issue announces itself by a purple
> ring on the iwoc button does it ? well blow me down.
> That's correct about removing the original tyres, I wrote the initial post on that issue when I had to cut the tyres off.
> ...



Thanks for the welcome Roy. The purple ring is some sort of 'safe' mode and the guidance is to 'go to dealer' something which might be tricky if you got the bike from a supplier some distance away. As regards tyres, I opted for 28c but will go bulkier to 32c when they need replacing for yet more comfort. It's pretty hilly round my part of the world, it seems like if you are not going up, your going down. Makes for lovely scenery though. The bike was a Godsend through lockdown last summer.

Regards
Steve


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## richtea (6 Feb 2021)

The purple LED can come on randomly if you bomb down a bumpy hill when the system is off. The iWoc button is overly sensitive and some heavy bumps vibration can switch it on. In that particular scenario it seems to indicate the system had trouble initialising whilst the bike was in motion. So if you do see purple, the first step is switch it off, and on again. Very Microsoft. In that particular situation it always recovers for me.

But agreed - in general if the purple stays on for subsequent power-ons, then you have a problem. You usually get an error code in the app, which can be useful to relay to the dealer before you take it in:
https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/error-codes-reference/


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## Scaleyback (7 Feb 2021)

richtea said:


> The purple LED can come on randomly if you bomb down a bumpy hill when the system is off. The iWoc button is overly sensitive and some heavy bumps vibration can switch it on. In that particular scenario it seems to indicate the system had trouble initialising whilst the bike was in motion. So if you do see purple, the first step is switch it off, and on again. Very Microsoft. In that particular situation it always recovers for me.
> 
> But agreed - in general if the purple stays on for subsequent power-ons, then you have a problem. You usually get an error code in the app, which can be useful to relay to the dealer before you take it in:
> https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/error-codes-reference/



I assume your words " when the system is off " refer to the system manually switched off as opposed to just not contributing because you ore over 25kph ?
I fail to see why anyone would 'switch the system off' please explain.


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## richtea (8 Feb 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I assume your words " when the system is off " refer to the system manually switched off as opposed to just not contributing because you ore over 25kph ?
> I fail to see why anyone would 'switch the system off' please explain.


Yes, I meant sub-25kph.

I don't need assistance except up big hills, so for 90% of my riding it's off. I could put it into the white 'zero assistance' mode, but it's actually quicker to switch it on from scratch that it is to get assistance when in the white zero assistance mode:
- from completely off, it's a single quick press to green level 1
- from white mode, it's one press to enable selection, then one more press to get to green level 1

Two presses means concentrating and checking to see if I accidentally pressed it three times.

I'd have to switch it on at the start of the ride too.

And I'm lazy.


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## DeeBy (10 Feb 2021)

Just a note for people thinking of buying a 2021 Gain. There is now a small LCD display supplied (on my D40 at least) that has up and down buttons for the assistance level. So the issue of multiple presses of the iWoc button to go down a level is no longer an issue. TBH the multi press doesn't phase me anyway but the display and up/down buttons are more convenient. Thought I'd pass on...


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## richtea (11 Feb 2021)

Excellent, DeeBy! I do like it when they take notice and fix these little wrinkles.
I am now doubly jealous of your 2021 model.

Are the built-in lights decent (i.e. bright enough, offer flashing options, etc)?


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## DeeBy (18 Feb 2021)

richtea said:


> Excellent, DeeBy! I do like it when they take notice and fix these little wrinkles.
> I am now doubly jealous of your 2021 model.
> 
> Are the built-in lights decent (i.e. bright enough, offer flashing options, etc)?


Both bright. Front doesn't illuminate road that well but looks cool. Rear is 11 lumens and front is 60 lumens. Worth noting that on the carbon frame (M) versions the rear light is where the seat post meets the top tube and is slick looking. On the alloy frame (mine) it's a block of red plastic near the top of the seat post. Looks boring and is obscured if you put an under-saddle bag on. You pays your money...

Cannot see a flashing option in the manual but I remember reading something on the net. If I work it out I'll post an update.


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## Scaleyback (26 Feb 2021)

Just reading about the D30 2021. Many 'tweaks' including the ebikemotion plus motor. All very nice but the 105 equipped alloy framed D30 now costs £3,099.00 an increase of £500.00. Gulp !


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## youngoldbloke (26 Feb 2021)

What improvements does the ebm+ offer? Lot of money for an alloy framed bike. Makes the Ribble SLe 105's look very competitive. Same price range for a carbon framed bike with better wheelset.


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## Scaleyback (26 Feb 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> What improvements does the ebm+ offer? Lot of money for an alloy framed bike. Makes the Ribble SLe 105's look very competitive. Same price range for a carbon framed bike with better wheelset.



I agree, this from Orbea's 2021 marketing;
" The aim from the Orbea engineers was to create a power delivery that closely matched the reactions you’d expect from a standard road bike when it comes to pedal inputs – using the latest iteration of ebikemotion’s X35 Plus system. The engine maps between the modes of assistance have also been custom tuned to Orbea’s preferences – again to offer a more natural feel to the ride while still giving you ample assistance when you need it "

I have always thought the phasing in/out of power around the 25kph was really good, but it seems it is better now ?


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## youngoldbloke (26 Feb 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I have always thought the phasing in/out of power around the 25kph was really good, but it seems it is better now ?


Agreed - seems pretty good to me too. I have a friend with a Ribble SLe - they were very helpful in agreeing to fit his Di2 components from his existing bike, and he has been very pleased with it. It could well be my choice if and when I replace my Gain.


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## Scaleyback (26 Feb 2021)

Yes, much as I love my Orbea Gain, I wouldn't return due to the abysmal after sales service by Orbea and in my instance the retailer 'Leisure Lakes'
After my battle early on to get info on the spokes I was losing, my 'Ready GR' wheel rims have looked as if they have completed 100,000 miles since about 6 months old ? Despite promises and platitudes from Leisure Lakes and Orbea ( I have now given up) they repeatedly never got back to me. Pretty poor show from a £2,500.00 purchase.


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## richtea (26 Feb 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> After my battle early on to get info on the spokes I was losing, my 'Ready GR' wheel rims have looked as if they have completed 100,000 miles since about 6 months old.


Ah, that's the weakness of my cheaper D50 Gain too - the wheels weren't up to much. However, I don't exactly help by being porky. 
I got the wheels rebuilt for less than £200. They're now much stronger, although I am having to adjust the occasional spoke - but that's a minor hassle compared to the wibbly wobbly originals. I would expect lighter people (< 100Kg) to have less problems.


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## youngoldbloke (26 Feb 2021)

Out of interest I tried to compare the 2021 Gain D30 with a non-powered Shimano 105 equipped bike from their current range and while there is no direct equivalent it looks like one is paying around £1000 extra for the motor, battery and electrics.


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## richtea (27 Feb 2021)

It is quite a hit just for the electrics, it's true. On the other hand is there a tidier way to get 250W of help?
Also there are occasional bargains out there. Nobody said you had to pay full price (2020 models for example).


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## youngoldbloke (27 Feb 2021)

richtea said:


> It is quite a hit just for the electrics, it's true. On the other hand is there a tidier way to get 250W of help?
> Also there are occasional bargains out there. Nobody said you had to pay full price (2020 models for example).


- or buy a Ribble SLe or CGR ALe and get more for your money?


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## NickWi (4 Mar 2021)

A 3-Speed Gain.

Let me explain. I was out for a ride last Sunday, about halfway in to my planned 30mile route the rear shifter went click click thunk, the rear mech went into its lowest gear and stayed there. A quick poke with a multitool confirmed it wasn’t a roadside fix. I thought about calling International Rescue but my better half was otherwise engaged so it was fifteen miles on a single speed bike, (as mine is a 1x11) and one stuck in top gear, but not quite. I still have 3x power assistance options to play with. Welcome to new my 3-speed Gain!

In truth it wasn’t as bad as I was expecting, obviously hills were a bit more challenging than normal, but putting the motor on full power and getting out of the saddle got me up them, if making the legs sting a bit. On the flat and undulations I kept the speed up, didn’t have much choice really being stuck in top, but I kept it just on 15mph mark to keep the motor assisting. A different way of riding but quite good fun really

Back home the strip down diagnosis is that part of the plastic cup that holds the nipple of the gear cable within the shift had given way and thus the cable had pinged out when I tried to upshift. Why, I don’t know. A manufacturing fault only now coming to light, plastic fatigue and maybe a sticky cable or gummy rear mech push the problem back upstream, I don’t know, but not a complicated fix and I’m 3-Speed no more.


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## theboxers (6 Mar 2021)

DeeBy said:


> First post and ready to go down the LBS with a credit card this week for a Gain D40 2021 spec. However, the LBS can't offer trial rides right now (understandable). So looking for advice if I may (newbie alert)...
> 
> Probably worth some background first... Trying to get fit at 60yrs and over 100Kg (but falling). Currently on a 16Kg MTB with a 1:0.9 ratio bottom gear (which I do use to keep going on gradients above 6%) and 26"x2.1 wheels. I can do 20 mile runs but still struggling above those 6% climbs of any length. Getting better every week and working to improve my fitness, so don't want a free ride up hills, but I'm hoping the Gain will mean I can be less scared of the climbs.
> 
> ...


I have a cube hybrid road bike with a Fazua motor. I've worked my way down to 118kg @56yo, still going down in weight.

The 50/34 - 11/32 gearing with the motor will get me up most stuff up to 15 or 16% as long as it is not too long. I've attempted 20+% and ground my way to a halt about 3/4 of the way up a half mile hill. The couple of walkers I rode past on the way up went past me whilst I was walking .

Motors are not the panacea for everything, but if used sensibly they can do wonders for endurance rides.


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## CXRAndy (6 Mar 2021)

theboxers said:


> I have a cube hybrid road bike with a Fazua motor. I've worked my way down to 118kg @56yo, still going down in weight.
> 
> The 50/34 - 11/32 gearing with the motor will get me up most stuff up to 15 or 16% as long as it is not too long. I've attempted 20+% and ground my way to a halt about 3/4 of the way up a half mile hill. The couple of walkers I rode past on the way up went past me whilst I was walking .
> 
> Motors are not the panacea for everything, but if used sensibly they can do wonders for endurance rides.



Boxers, there are more powerful systems available, Bafang, do a selection with BB conversion or bespoke frame Ultra models.


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## theboxers (11 Mar 2021)

CXRAndy said:


> Boxers, there are more powerful systems available, Bafang, do a selection with BB conversion or bespoke frame Ultra models.


@CXRAndy I've seen what they are capable of, depending how they are set-up. However they don't interest me. Not because it cheating or anything like that. Nor because I want to make the ride easy.

I want to have available the lowest, I can get away with, assistance level to ride where I want to ride. Most of the time that will be zero assistance. But on occasion it will be 400w, for my cube or more depending on the set-up.

I want to be able to use my ebike to help with weight loss and fitness increases. Riding assisted all the time will help a little with the first but not much with the second. My use pattern of my set-up is a little as possible. In fact I did my first ride CCW of Richmond Park without any ebike assistance last weekend.  I've ridden round it on normal unassisted bikes with much lower gearing. But this was the first time for my 34/32 gearing on the cube. 

Yeah dragging an extra 5-8kg of bike around, my cube ebike all up including cameras, radar and edge tops out at 15kg, doesn't help. But for me the extra weight has more positives than negatives, pun not intended .

I think it is down to how you want to use the available assistance. For me it is exactly that, assistance. For others it is to get out and about away from p2w, cars or vehicles.

YMMV, as much as your battery power. But I'm doing an assisted ride not a powered one.


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## gzoom (16 Mar 2021)

Been out on both my road bike and Boardman eBike last few days, with the 40 birthday coming up, am gradually firming up the idea of getting an eRoad bike to complement my current Boardman hybrid and Trek road bike. The Orbea Gain looks like really good value for money, and I love the colour customisation. 

I presume people are happy with their Orbeas on here? Can you customise the motor output to your liking?


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## Scaleyback (18 Mar 2021)

gzoom said:


> Been out on both my road bike and Boardman eBike last few days, with the 40 birthday coming up, am gradually firming up the idea of getting an eRoad bike to complement my current Boardman hybrid and Trek road bike. The Orbea Gain looks like really good value for money, and I love the colour customisation.
> 
> I presume people are happy with their Orbeas on here? Can you customise the motor output to your liking?
> 
> View attachment 578902


Yes, you can customise the motor output. All 3 levels of assistance can be adjusted in % terms.


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## Zofo (21 Mar 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> Yes, you can customise the motor output. All 3 levels of assistance can be adjusted in % terms.





gzoom said:


> Been out on both my road bike and Boardman eBike last few days, with the 40 birthday coming up, am gradually firming up the idea of getting an eRoad bike to complement my current Boardman hybrid and Trek road bike. The Orbea Gain looks like really good value for money, and I love the colour customisation.
> 
> I presume people are happy with their Orbeas on here? Can you customise the motor output to your liking?
> 
> View attachment 578902


There is the capability to re map the 3 power outputs in the app ..


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## Baldrick (2 May 2021)

Big-Andy said:


> Kind people, I have managed to sort this out, but had to destroy the front Fusion to do it then learned my lesson.
> To summarise a very long and at times painful morning......
> The reason these are a pain to remove is due to the beads "locking" into place at the outer edge of the rim. This is what's supposed to happen but due to the highlighted varying rim sizes it looks like they actually get wedged under the rims clincher edge and the inner/outer, largest (greatest diameter) , part of the rim too. This means that moving the deflated tyre back to the rims middle or shallowest part is virtually impossible by hand. Having cut one tyre off it was clear to see what was happening. I then used some large plumbers pliers with tape on the jaws to lever both of the beads away from the outer edge and once they "popped" from under the outer edge and rim back into the middle of the rim it was easy to get them on and off again. Also, to my surprise the Fusion 5 All Weathers came with KENDA tubes in them from new, they weren't Tubeless. I now have my Conti Contact Plus City tyres on with some decent Shwalbe SV17 tubes and feel way more confident I can fix things at the roadside with a spare tube and a couple of spare CO2 16OZ canisters. Thanks for helping a newbie out here, you are all a credit to the helpful nature of the forum.
> I did just pop out for a quick "round the block" test to see if the tyres made a difference and I can't say I noticed too much difference but being 35c instead of 25c I would be happy to say the roads felt a bit smoother but overall I feel a lot more confident about the setup.


So did the Conti tyres which you put on, with tube, come off the Black Jack rim okay? I got a pinch puncture yesterday on a cattle grid 20 miles from home. New Orbea Gain 40 with Black Jack rims and Hutchinson tyres with tube. Could not get tyre off the rim, however hard I tried. Taxi home and had to pinch the tyre in a vice to get the bead free, and then only one side. I had to drive the tyre bead off the other side with a piece of hardwood and a hammer. Why they put this combination together is beyond me. 
I now need to know which tyres would fit and be capable of being removed at roadside. Did the Contis come off okay? Otherwise I will fit new rims.


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## Baldrick (2 May 2021)

I bought my Orbea Gain 40 in early April and love it, apart from a tyre removal issue which I have asked for advice on another thread. I am 76 and started to struggle uphills whilst riding with younger riders. I only use the power on hills and top power on the steepest bits as I still want to keep fit and work. I have done three rides so far and had plenty of battery life left. Last week 57 miles and 1300m of climbing and used 47% of battery. Yesterday 47 very hilly miles, climbed 1750 metres and used 64% of battery. I reckon 100 miles with 800m of climbing should be achievable if being frugal. With tool kit, pump and empty bottles it weighs 16kg but is okay on the flat and great when descending. I can recommend it. It is an aluminium frame with lugs so you can fit a carrier for touring. Shimano Tiara gears and hydraulic brakes, which are all superb. 
BTW I ordered a Ribble in March with the same Ebikemotion power (and the same frame, I think) but they were talking 6 months for delivery. I cancelled and got the Orbea off the shelf in Wigan- £2,040, a bargain.


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## youngoldbloke (2 May 2021)

Excellent miles/% battery figures. I have the original Tiagra version. My battery capacity has dropped since new almost 3 years ago after a period when the bike was left fully charged for a long period - the advice is not to leave the bike charged to any more than 80% for more than a day or so. However I have never achieved anywhere near your figures, and to be realistic I estimate a maximum battery range of about 45 miles over mixed terrain (as does the app.). My average is consistently around 2% of charge per mile. I rarely use a setting higher than no. 1, except on steep hills, hardly ever 3. My average speed is around 13 mph, so I am riding without assistance - above 15.5 mph - for a considerable distance each ride. You must be riding above the assistance cut off speed for a large part of your ride.


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## Scaleyback (2 May 2021)

Baldrick said:


> I bought my Orbea Gain 40 in early April and love it, apart from a tyre removal issue which I have asked for advice on another thread. I am 76 and started to struggle uphills whilst riding with younger riders. I only use the power on hills and top power on the steepest bits as I still want to keep fit and work. I have done three rides so far and had plenty of battery life left. Last week 57 miles and 1300m of climbing and used 47% of battery. Yesterday 47 very hilly miles, climbed 1750 metres and used 64% of battery. I reckon 100 miles with 800m of climbing should be achievable if being frugal. With tool kit, pump and empty bottles it weighs 16kg but is okay on the flat and great when descending. I can recommend it. It is an aluminium frame with lugs so you can fit a carrier for touring. Shimano Tiara gears and hydraulic brakes, which are all superb.
> BTW I ordered a Ribble in March with the same Ebikemotion power (and the same frame, I think) but they were talking 6 months for delivery. I cancelled and got the Orbea off the shelf in Wigan- £2,040, a bargain.


 
Hi Baldrick,

I have a Gain D30 which I purchased in Feb 2019. I have completed approx 4,000 miles on mine. (I also ride another bike) 
I turned 74 in jan. I am not surprised at your battery consumption figures as i have had similar results on hilly rides.
I am impressed by your ride results for a man of 76, well done to you and long may it continue.
Ref your tyre removal troubles, I have 'been there' see my post 236 on page 16 dated 1 jun 2019.


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## youngoldbloke (3 May 2021)

- well, I don't understand why my figures are so different. There doesn't appear to be anything amiss with my bike. I can only believe that to attain such good miles per charge that your speed must be above the 15.5mph cut off or assistance is turned off for the majority of the ride. Or is it simply that my leg muscle strength is very low, and a weaker rider uses more assistance at any given level?


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## Scaleyback (4 May 2021)

I feel your confusion Peter. and I may not have helped ?
When I said in my previous post (after reading Baldricks rides v battery consumption) I said:
" I am not surprised at your battery consumption figures as i have had similar results on hilly rides "
I was reading his gradient climbed as feet not meters (I still measure in old money)
Baldricks 57miles 1300m (4265ft) at 47% battery usage is I think remarkably good performance for battery and especially for a 76 year old rider. Perhaps Baldrick rides up hills above the cut-off speed ? 
I think, as you say, that " a weaker rider uses more assistance at any given level? "
However, don't beat yourself up, we all have different strengths (I haven't actually found mine yet ) you are out riding your bike when 90%+ of gentlemen your age are probably sitting at home getting fat(ter)


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## theboxers (6 May 2021)

I'm 56 and over weight and have tried both no/minimum assistance and lowest assistance all the time.

I am able to to hold above the limiter on flat ground, of which there is very little where I live. My normal ride style on my ebike is no assistance until I have to, usually over 7%.

I will get about 1000m of ascent for about 50-75% of battery power depending on Grade over a 50-75km ride.

The longest ride was 100km with 1350m of elevation gain for iirc 70% battery usage.


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## martinbyw (7 May 2021)

Have the Orbea Gain F40 Hybrid. Tempted to change the tyres to SCHWALBE Marathon Plus HS Wire Tire. 
Happy with the comfort of the original Kenda 700 x 38 but having read here of how hard they are to remove.
My concern is do I go for the 700 x 35 max size available or loose what I hope is a little comfort and go for 700 x 32?


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## Southernguns (8 May 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> - well, I don't understand why my figures are so different. There doesn't appear to be anything amiss with my bike. I can only believe that to attain such good miles per charge that your speed must be above the 15.5mph cut off or assistance is turned off for the majority of the ride. Or is it simply that my leg muscle strength is very low, and a weaker rider uses more assistance at any given level?


Yeah, I'm with you on this, Young. I'm a wee pup at only 47, although have had a series of back injuries - hence the electric assistance. I ride a variety of terrain - but if I am on the road (rather than gravel) then I sometimes cycle out across the levels with only 800 - 1200ft of climbing over 30 or 45 miles. Other times I will cycle over the hills with 2800ft of climbing over 15 -20 miles. My average speed is usually 15.5 - 16.5 mph and I generally only use level 1 (green) assistance set at 100%. I stick it on level 1 and leave it there, occasionally moving to a higher level if the hills require. On the flat rides I will generally use about 1.2-1.5% of the battery per mile. As an estimate (and allowing for a bigger drop in battery performance as the battery drains (I have found it depletes more rapidly once it hits 25% remaining), and human performance as I drain) I predict that I could get around 65-70 miles on a full charge (possibly 80 miles on a good day and with a strong tail wind). On hilly routes I reckon this could drop to about 50-60 miles. I have never tested this though as I generally only cycle 30-45 mile rides on road and 20 - 30 miles on gravel.


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## martinbyw (8 May 2021)

Yes they feel comfortable and no problem with grip even over the winter


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## Scaleyback (10 May 2021)

martinbyw said:


> Have the Orbea Gain F40 Hybrid. Tempted to change the tyres to SCHWALBE Marathon Plus HS Wire Tire.
> Happy with the comfort of the original Kenda 700 x 38 but having read here of how hard they are to remove.
> My concern is do I go for the 700 x 35 max size available or loose what I hope is a little comfort and go for 700 x 32?



I do agree with removing the original Kenda 700 x 38 tyres due to the impossibility of removing them if you puncture. However I seem to remember similar struggles with Marathon Plus tyres in the distant past ? What do others say about fitting/removing these Schwalbe's ? They are also very heavy tyres.
P.S I ride on Schwalbe G-one All round 35mm, brilliant tyres imo.


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## CXRAndy (10 May 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I do agree with removing the original Kenda 700 x 38 tyres due to the impossibility of removing them if you puncture. However I seem to remember similar struggles with Marathon Plus tyres in the distant past ? What do others say about fitting/removing these Schwalbe's ? They are also very heavy tyres.



Marathons are quite tough to fit. The technique with any tyre is get the beads into the middle of the rim whilst fitting. This is the smallest circumference and gives that little bit of extra to get the last section over the rim lip. Keep pushing the tyre into the middle repeatedly all the way around the tyre whilst fitting


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## Scaleyback (17 Jun 2021)

Is the odometer reading on your Gain correct ? I know mine used to accurately log the miles I was doing. When I used to log on to http://www.ebikemotion.com the mileage was incrementing as I rode and was accurate on the 'App'
I noticed after todays ride, (dated and timed correctly) the odometer online & the App records 1,125 miles when I know I must be close to 4.500 miles ? I can only assume as some point (long time ago) it has reset back to zero ?
The bike has never been 'in the hands' of a Orbea dealer for a service etc, not that they would reset the odometer ?
Anyone any thoughts ?


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## youngoldbloke (17 Jun 2021)

Mine seems to be what I'd expect. at 4753.676 miles.


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## Scaleyback (17 Jun 2021)

Thanks Peter,
I assumed this would be just my problem. Actually it's not a great problem because all my rides are documented on ' https://connect.garmin.com ' and I did occassionally log my miles there. My last count was 3,980 and I've just added from there and I'm now on 4,300. 
My 1st thought when I looked today was the mileage just wasn't incrementing anymore but todays ride was accurately recorded ?
Oh well, if I ever come to sell it the odometer will show a 'low mileage bike' eh  only kidding.. 
Coincidence ? my odometer reading today said 1,125.676 ! we have that .676 in common.


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## Scaleyback (23 Jun 2021)

Here's a little tale that that left me with 'egg on my face' but I will recount here in case others are prone to make the same mistake I did (surely not I say ?)
I put a new chain on my D30, the 3rd new one so I decided it was about time for a new 11 speed cassette as well. I have changed many chains and the odd cassette over the years so nothing new here . . . Hmmm 
Went for a ride yesterday, a pretty flat 18 miles and my overriding impression was I don't have ' the legs' today ? I'm 74, . . . . it happens. 
When home I used the phone app to check the battery power remaining and thought. . . strange ? it is still reporting the same battery charge as the last previous check, I had charged it to 85% a couple of days before. A google search on "Orbea Gain battery problems" led me to diagnose the problem. When I changed the cassette I used the new cassette lock ring. I now know that the original Gain cassette lockring has a series of small 'pips' that are magnetic and are 'talking' to the motor. It is blindingly obvious if you look at this lockring that it is a 'little different' but i never noticed. So I did 18 miles without any assistence and thought I was having an 'off day' Good job it was pretty flat eh ?
Bet you all knew this about the lockring eh ?

P.S Good job I still had the old cassette & lockring.


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## youngoldbloke (23 Jun 2021)

Oh yes!


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## Scaleyback (23 Jun 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Oh yes!


 And why didn't you tell me earlier Peter ?


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## youngoldbloke (23 Jun 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> And why didn't you tell me earlier Peter ?


- you never asked ....


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## Capital_Singer (1 Jul 2021)

I've just bought an M30 It should be delivered next week. I've tried searching but can't seem to find an answer to my questions, 

1-Is it possible to put a Garmin 520 on the front of it instead of the Pulsar One and be able to see a battery percentage and alter the assist levels?
or does the pulsar one have GPS for putting my rides on strava?

2-Whats required to set the tyres up tubeless? I got another Orbea (Wild FS) earlier this year and it had tubeless rim tape already applied and even came with the valves

3-are the disc rotors 6 bolt or centrelock?


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## richtea (1 Jul 2021)

Re: Q2, the M30 spec says:
https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain/cat/gain-m30
FULCRUM E-Racing 900 wheels as standard

https://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/support/ruote-oem-en/e-racing-900
Fulcrum says:
'2-Way Fit Ready (for clincher and tubeless ready)'

So in theory you just need tubeless tyres.
Again the M30 spec says:
- Schwalbe ONE 30-622, 700x30C, Performance Line RaceGuard, TLE, ADDIX

Which look like they're tubeless, so you may have to do absolutely nothing:
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/road-reader/schwalbe-one-tle

Sweet!


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## Capital_Singer (3 Jul 2021)

richtea said:


> Which look like they're tubeless, so you may have to do absolutely nothing:



what I was looking for is a recent 2021 purchaser to confirm if I needed to buy valves & rim tape, or if they come with the bike? and I doubt would ever have to do nothing, they aren't selling bikes already set up tubeless with sealant in are they? they always used to come tubed and "ready to convert" somehow due to the fact that they might sit in a warehouse or a shop floor for a year and the sealent would dry out, but it wouldn't surprise me if they just sold them tubeless now as nothing sits in a warehouse for any time at all it's almost instantly built and then sold out. how times have changed!

nobody know about the Garmin pairing? can't seem to find much about it despite all my searching, I have found this, is it what you need:
https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/gear/accessories/cat/dongle-ant
it'll be here soon I can't wait


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## Capital_Singer (3 Jul 2021)

I'm really keen to find out how it will ride, and how powerful it is. I have ridden on the road with a road bike a fair bit but would typically average above 16mph, so is it just going to kick in on the hills?
I have a full fat Wild FS already thats great for mountain biking but I've come across a few road bikes on the way to the trails and they just leave me for dead, and I've noticed flat sections of the trail I used to ride at above 16mph are now ridden at 16mph maximum, anything above that is just a slog!


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## Scaleyback (4 Jul 2021)

Capital_Singer said:


> what I was looking for is a recent 2021 purchaser to confirm if I needed to buy valves & rim tape, or if they come with the bike? and I doubt would ever have to do nothing, they aren't selling bikes already set up tubeless with sealant in are they? they always used to come tubed and "ready to convert" somehow due to the fact that they might sit in a warehouse or a shop floor for a year and the sealent would dry out, but it wouldn't sur



My D30 came "tubeless ready" and I did attempt to go down that path, it was over 2 years ago so I hope my memory is not failing me when I say you will certainly need valves but I cannot remember if it had rim tape ? My best guess would be you will have to get valves and rim tape.
I gave up on the tubeless 'thing' what a load of 'faff' I struggled to pump them up, couldn't get them to seal on the rims and had sealant all over the place. I am prepared to accept 'it was me' ! but I have read similar more than once elsewhere.
I am of the impression that the benefits of tubeless are more for mountain bike/offroad riders. Tubeless allows them to ride with softer/less air in the tyres and largely removes the problem of 'pinch punctures'
In 2 1/2 years I have never had a flat tyre. I put sealant in my inner tubes, (700 x 35 tyres) Schwalbe tubes (presta valves) have removable centre cores.
I use 'Stans No Tube sealant' and a plastic injector syringe to get the recommended amount of sealant into the tube (Search " YouHuGu 100ml Large Big Plastic Hydroponics Nutrient Measuring Syringe " on Amazon.
I renew the sealant every 6 months plus the valve centre core, a few £'s for several cores and a core remover. Yes a little 'faff' but so is changing a tube/repairing a puncture at the side of the road.


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## richtea (4 Jul 2021)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/comment/is-the-tubeless-system-flawed-for-narrower-tyres-497374

Snippet:
_Latex-based sealants will typically last around three months – but in hot conditions this can be as little as just one – before needing to be topped up again. This extra layer of maintenance – combined with the issues dried up lumps of latex can cause with the balance of your wheels at high speeds – means that tubeless on the road can end up just not being worth the trouble._

Call me crazy, but it might be less hassle to have a puncture. But with tubeless at least you control the timing of when you have to put some effort (and money) in, versus an unexpected puncture.


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## CXRAndy (5 Jul 2021)

richtea said:


> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/comment/is-the-tubeless-system-flawed-for-narrower-tyres-497374
> 
> Snippet:
> _Latex-based sealants will typically last around three months – but in hot conditions this can be as little as just one – before needing to be topped up again. This extra layer of maintenance – combined with the issues dried up lumps of latex can cause with the balance of your wheels at high speeds – means that tubeless on the road can end up just not being worth the trouble._
> ...



Honestly , that may be just bullsh!t marketing. I've only changed my sealant every couple of years. Just put in plenty when first installing. I normally put in minimum of 75mil for 25mm tyres and 150mil for 40mm+ tyres.


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## Capital_Singer (5 Jul 2021)

got my Gain M30 today and there is no way anyone can say it's not a damn good looking bike!

seem to be having a slight problem with tightening the stem onto the steerer , I can't seem to get it to tighten. the stem bolts are tight, but it you hold the wheel and give the bars a jerk then the stem spins around on the steerer.
I've put a bit of the assembly paste on. had a look in the instructions but all I can see is a generic picture of an old 1990's quill stem and it simply says "tighten this bolt"🤷‍♂️


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## Pale Rider (6 Jul 2021)

Capital_Singer said:


> got my Gain M30 today and there is no way anyone can say it's not a damn good looking bike!
> 
> seem to be having a slight problem with tightening the stem onto the steerer , I can't seem to get it to tighten. the stem bolts are tight, but it you hold the wheel and give the bars a jerk then the stem spins around on the steerer.
> I've put a bit of the assembly paste on. had a look in the instructions but all I can see is a generic picture of an old 1990's quill stem and it simply says "tighten this bolt"🤷‍♂️



You shouldn't need to do it, but a shim made from a Coke can would probably give you the extra grip required.


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## carpiste (6 Jul 2021)

Pale Rider said:


> You shouldn't need to do it, but a shim made from a Coke can would probably give you the extra grip required.


The sugar free type obviously!


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## youngoldbloke (6 Jul 2021)

Capital_Singer said:


> got my Gain M30 today and there is no way anyone can say it's not a damn good looking bike!
> 
> seem to be having a slight problem with tightening the stem onto the steerer , I can't seem to get it to tighten. the stem bolts are tight, but it you hold the wheel and give the bars a jerk then the stem spins around on the steerer.
> I've put a bit of the assembly paste on. had a look in the instructions but all I can see is a generic picture of an old 1990's quill stem and it simply says "tighten this bolt"🤷‍♂️


Should be tight at 4 to 5 Nm. Here is the official User Manual


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## Capital_Singer (6 Jul 2021)

youngoldbloke said:


> Should be tight at 4 to 5 Nm. Here is the official User Manual


it says 6nm on the stem and yeah it shouldn't spin but it does. it was dry at first and actually seemed to hold better, Well I did 30km and it was at least rideable. when I applied the carbon assembly paste that came in a little sachet I think it actually made it worse it seems to move even easier, feels like if I were to hit a pothole now it would just spin freely and I'd be off! I do actually have a tube of Fenwick's carbon assembly paste which has some fairly large white particles mixed into it I'm going to strip and re assemble using that tonight to see if that's any better. the stuff in the sachet just looked like grease to me🤷‍♂️
failing that it'll be a coke can shim.
I'll measure the steerer & stem with the Vernier callipers to see what they are exactly


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## Capital_Singer (6 Jul 2021)

Ok I've sorted it. the problem seemed to be the fact that the stem and the steerer are almost the same size and it was impossible to get any of the paste between the 2 surfaces. all the stuff I smeared onto the steerer and the inside of the stem last night had just been pushed down onto the bottom of the steerer🤦‍♂️
so I took the 2 stem bolts right out , and got a small wooden wedge and tapped it in the gap just to open the stem up (by about 1mm), applied a load of the Fenwick's carbon assembly paste and built it all back together, took the wedge out and the tightened the bolts up and it's solid.
seems odd that carbon and aluminium seem to have zero friction between the 2 surfaces without that paste!


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## Capital_Singer (7 Jul 2021)

Capital_Singer said:


> 1-Is it possible to put a Garmin 520 on the front of it instead of the Pulsar One and be able to see a battery percentage and alter the assist levels?
> or does the pulsar one have GPS for putting my rides on strava?
> 
> 2-Whats required to set the tyres up tubeless? I got another Orbea (Wild FS) earlier this year and it had tubeless rim tape already applied and even came with the valves
> ...



To answer the questions above if anyone is interested..

1. All I have managed to do do far is get the "ebike field" widget from Garmin connect. It shows the battery percentage and current mode on my 520.
Still trying to figure out if more is possible. there is an ANT + dongle available from Orbea but I have only ever seen this thing fitted to 2020 Gains, and have a feeling that it is built in to my one. the info on the website is not really informative at all it poses more questions than it answers.

2. I didn't get ay tubeless valves with the bike so you need to buy valves & sealant

3. the disc rotors are 6 bolt


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## Scaleyback (7 Jul 2021)

Capital_Singer said:


> To answer the questions above if anyone is interested..
> 
> 2. I didn't get ay tubeless valves with the bike so you need to buy valves & sealant



I did answer Ques 2 in my post #1,025

Incidentally when you ask a question and someone takes the time to answer you in whole or part it is good forum 'etiquette' to acknowledge that answer. maybe a thank you or a 'like'


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## Capital_Singer (7 Jul 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I did answer Ques 2 in my post #1,025
> 
> Incidentally when you ask a question and someone takes the time to answer you in whole or part it is good forum 'etiquette' to acknowledge that answer. maybe a thank you or a 'like'


 well, you tried so I guess I should thank you for trying!


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## Scaleyback (8 Sep 2021)

I am considering fitting a lightweight rear carrier to carry a small(ish) removal bag on my Orbea Gain.
Something like this:-





Has anyone any experience of fitting a carrier rack and any recommendations ?

The seat stays have threaded eyelets (under rubber plug) presumably for a suitable carrier ?






Anyone used one of the seat post mounted racks i.e Topeak Beam Rack with matching MTX trunk bag ?

I guess some may question 'carrier on a road bike' but my Gain is fitted with 35mm gravel tyres and full guards so is not 'built for speed'
I want the added versatility that a rear rack and bag will give me.

Thanks.


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## youngoldbloke (8 Sep 2021)

Absolutely no problem with a rack on your Gain. It will be in the great British tradition of drop bar touring bikes such as the Dawes Galaxy


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## richtea (9 Sep 2021)

I have an old school Blackburn rack fitted to my Gain. Blackburns come (came?) in two fitting types - a centre fixing to attach where the muguard goes (like youngoldblokes above), and a stronger design with two extendable (and bendable to the right position) bits to attach to those eyelets.

The single attachment is plenty strong enough so either type will do. The main stress is downwards anyway, not sideways, but a double-fixing means a little less sway when heavily loaded.

Mine brought two loaves bread, milk, two lots of chipolatas and a couple of illicit chelsea buns home today. Yum. And that was just in one pannier.

A double fixing point one, as an example (but in the US, hey ho):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164931469379?hash=item2666ae8043:g:mE0AAOSw5r9g10BQ

We also have a Topeak Beam Rack, but on a Boardman HYB 8.9e. It's quite chunky, yet carries less (maybe half-ish by weight), because it has to take the strain through the beam. Not a bad solution, but not good enough for days of touring unless you pack really light. I would have struggled to get my shopping in the smaller panniers it takes.


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## Scaleyback (10 Sep 2021)

Thanks richtea,

Coincidentally, I am expecting a Topeak Beam rack to arrive today:






Should this prove suitable I intend to get the matching MTX bag that 'slots' into the rack:






I saw they did a a version (rack and bag) that supports/has panniers but I don't need a touring option and the bag alone should be sufficient.
I have always found Topeak accessories to be top quality and worth paying a little extra.
You have no problem with the Beam rack 'moving around' when loaded up ?

Roy


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## richtea (10 Sep 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> You have no problem with the Beam rack 'moving around' when loaded up ?



None at all, they're good and solid if the panniers are attached tightly (ours is by velcro, with no movement at all).
Our panniers unzip and flip down, and then re-attach at the bottom of the supports (EDIT: ah - yours has no pannier support, but that's fine if you're going bag only)
It's a good pick - just be sure to check the max load. Yours (if it's the same one?) says 9Kg. Plenty for day trips, etc.


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## CXRAndy (10 Sep 2021)

I have got the full rack for the MTX trunk panniers. I also purchased the beam rack and cut off the mounting bracket. I used the guide rails on a fixing plate to the rack on my ebike. 

I would use the beam rack only if you stay below the max weight limit, else get the touring rack and fit properly to bike. 

I placed washers between the rack and bike frame to reduce rubbing. 

Also I used locknuts on the other side where the bolt passed thru the frame where space allowed, nothing is coming loose 👍


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## Scaleyback (10 Sep 2021)

" I would use the beam rack only if you stay below the max weight limit, else get the touring rack and fit properly to bike. "
Yes, max of 9Kg should be ample for daily cycle needs + lightweight waterproof jacket etc.


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## Lobular (21 Jan 2022)

Hello, my first post here. 

I am contemplating buying an Orbea Gain for commuting. I have almost 30 km to the nearest metro (subway) station and after that a half an hour trainride and a few kilometers more to bike to work. The idea is to sweat less and be drier and warmer on the ride and in the metro during wintertime. And to be able to drive 25 kmh averages with winter clothing on. Has anybody any experience with their Gain in sub-freezing temperatures? Any issues with the motor, battery or electrics? I can reload at work so I can live with the diminished range in winter use. 

BR from Finland


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## Nigaly (11 Mar 2022)

Hi all, just got myself a 2021 Orbea Gain D50 , it’s a shop soiled one so I could get it as cheap as possible! I was under the impression it came with a simple computer/interface to mount on the headset,but there wasn’t one with it , so I questioned that, and the online shop I got it from said it doesn’t, but other adverts I have seen seems to suggest it does. So before I get too much egg on my face arguing with them can anybody verify it does, thanks in advance.


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## richtea (11 Mar 2022)

Congratulations!

iWoc Trio controllers (see below) are standard on flat-bar Orbeas, but not on the dropbar road bikes.

There are two things you could consider that may help:

1. Connect to the bike with an app and Bluetooth to tune the power levels, amongst other things. This isn't of use during the ride, it just sets the max levels, etc.

2. Add an iWoc Trio handlebar controller if you want something slightly more 'standard' looking. You'll need to visit an Orbea dealer to fit the Trio, and an unreasonably large chunk of cash - about £85 + labour if I remember correctly.
iWoc Trio controllers are standard on flat-bar Orbeas, but not on the dropbar road bikes.
I suggest you just try with the single iWoc button first for a few weeks - it is very easy to use after a few rides.

The iWoc Trio looks like this (trio for 3 buttons: up, down, on-off):


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## Nigaly (11 Mar 2022)

Thanks for your reply , I actually thought there was like a simple computer display which could alter power levels on and show speed and distance,I am sure I have seen that somewhere, but can’t remember where and the info on the website did seem to suggest that, but may have just meant the mount on top of the light. I would have still have bought the bike without it I just thought that it would have been a bit of a bonus! 
I have not seen seen the handlebar controller that looks interesting but probably not worth the expense and hassle for me. I think I will be happy with just the button , I have been using an oldish (quite heavy)hybrid with a Swytch kit on and the button looks less fiddly than that , and most of the time I just leave it in level one as live in Norfolk so no big hills.


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## youngoldbloke (12 Mar 2022)

Nigaly said:


> Thanks for your reply , I actually thought there was like a simple computer display which could alter power levels on and show speed and distance,I am sure I have seen that somewhere, but can’t remember where and the info on the website did seem to suggest that, but may have just meant the mount on top of the light. I would have still have bought the bike without it I just thought that it would have been a bit of a bonus!
> I have not seen seen the handlebar controller that looks interesting but probably not worth the expense and hassle for me. I think I will be happy with just the button , I have been using an oldish (quite heavy)hybrid with a Swytch kit on and the button looks less fiddly than that , and most of the time I just leave it in level one as live in Norfolk so no big hills.


There is the PULSARONE FOR MAHLE X35+ SYSTEM computer, but the reports I've seen are not very positive with users reporting unpredictable behaviour when changing assistance levels - which rather defeats the purpose. I have no personal experience of it, I've become used to using the Iwoc button and the phone app. However I understand that you can link successfully with Garmin and similar computers and use them to control power levels and view ride information.
edit: the app is very power hungry, so I use a powerbank mounted on the bars beneath the phone, which is mounted above the stem.


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## richtea (14 Mar 2022)

Well spotted, youndoldbloke! Just beware that the Pulsarone needs the latest Mahle system, i.e. the 'X35+'.
Some (most?) 2021 bikes will have the older plain X35 system without the '+'.


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## meckers (29 Mar 2022)

youngoldbloke said:


> There is the PULSARONE FOR MAHLE X35+ SYSTEM computer, but the reports I've seen are not very positive with users reporting unpredictable behaviour when changing assistance levels - which rather defeats the purpose. I have no personal experience of it, I've become used to using the Iwoc button and the phone app. However I understand that you can link successfully with Garmin and similar computers and use them to control power levels and view ride information.
> edit: the app is very power hungry, so I use a powerbank mounted on the bars beneath the phone, which is mounted above the stem.


Warning about mounting Garmin Etc on front light cradle on Orbea Gain. The cradle is not strong enough to take the weight of a Garmin or other GPS. I’ve had my orbea gain just 3 months and destroyed the from light cradle and lost my Garmin 1030. It just fell apart on a shaky decent at speed. I figure the little Polestar unit is about as heavy a unit that can be put on this light cradle. See YouTube Lake District cyclist guy just posted a video of his Garmin doing exactly the same. Then a second video of him buying a replacement front light cradle and fitting it himself. The cheap plastic can not hold the cantilever weight of a heavy GPS unit. See my destroyed light cradle below.. on the plus side it’s only £45 to replace off the Orbea web site. So not the end of the world. Going to attach Garmin to the stem.


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## Alba Zeus (15 Jun 2022)

What does everyone who owns a gain have their motor % settings at?

Level1
Level2
Level3


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## Southernguns (23 Jun 2022)

Hey Alba, This is a tough one to recommend as everyone's fitness/strength is different and the terrain they ride is different. On the app you can choose between 3 pre set options so I would try each of these and find which suits you best. From there you can then fine tune using the custom setting. I tend to leave mine on the sport setting unless I have done a leg day at the gym the day before and then I change everything to 100%.


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## Dadam (30 Nov 2022)

Nigaly said:


> Thanks for your reply , I actually thought there was like a simple computer display which could alter power levels on and show speed and distance,I am sure I have seen that somewhere, but can’t remember where and the info on the website did seem to suggest that, but may have just meant the mount on top of the light. I would have still have bought the bike without it I just thought that it would have been a bit of a bonus!
> I have not seen seen the handlebar controller that looks interesting but probably not worth the expense and hassle for me. I think I will be happy with just the button , I have been using an oldish (quite heavy)hybrid with a Swytch kit on and the button looks less fiddly than that , and most of the time I just leave it in level one as live in Norfolk so no big hills.



I know it's a while since this post but the D frame Gains now come with the Display OC ANT+ LEV which is also available aftermarket. If you've got the older model of Gain without the ANT+ you can buy it with the cable dongle that provides this connectivity.


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