# Low carb diet?



## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

Is there a quick way to find calculate the carbohydrate content of prepared foods. For instance, anything with more than 10g of fat per 100g of a particular food, is IIRC, regarded as medium to high fat.
Does this 10% guideline apply to carbs?

I am reading a book by India Knight explaining how she lost lots of weight, but for the first two weeks she states that one should not eat carbs, or fruit, (as it is too high in sugar). That seems a bit extreme to me, so I would prefer to _cut down_ on "bad" carbs. My preferred foods are things like jumbo oats, wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta, and brown rice etc, and Ryvita Dark Rye. She also suggests eggs, and or sausages for breakfast. Eggs I absolutely do not like, (unless heavily disguised as a cake or similar) and sausages I think are very high in fat, so I am not sure how that helps. She does have some sensible advice like using mashed cauliflower as a substitute in shepherd's pie etc.

I seem to be changing shape, ie getting smaller, but not loosing weight. I have lost a stone since the summer, and would like to loose another two stone. I do not mind how long it takes, but it needs to be a permanent loss, and not put the weight back on. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you.


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## colly (1 Dec 2008)

Not sure about a quick way to calculate carb. content of prepared foods. I guess it depends on where you decide high/low/medium content lies.

Eating a low carb. diet for a while certainly does shift the pounds if all else is equal. For a period last year I cut out a cereal breakfast, missed off bread altogether, and made sure I ate either homemade soup or a high protein lunch such as fish. 
I kept a rough and ready record of my weight and over a period of six weeks lost a stone,10 weeks over a stone and a half and it really wasn't difficult. 
I do like bread so that was the only thing I missed. 
For breakfast it was usually eggs, (which I know you said you don't like) or maybe a couple of rashers of lean bacon. Curiously after the first day I really didn't have any mid morning hunger pangs which I always seem to get when I am eating as I normally do. 
I still ate fruit seeing as how I love most fruits and at the time didn't do any additional exercise.
I am back on the bread and toast now but even though I am a little heavier it is no more than a couple of pounds.
I suppose it's like all these things it is a case of balance, find what suits and works for you and either stick to it or not.


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## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

Thank you, Colly for your comments. Today I had my porridge later than usual, and therefore missed out lunch. This had the unexpected benefit of me not feeling sluggish at about 2pm. I like grilled bacon, so that is another option for breakfast.

I could try making home-made soup, and I like tuna, so I think I will need to eat either of those two without the bread. The main disadvantage with my eating bread is that I like butter, not that over-processed substance that is supposed to be instead of butter. 

I notice that you did not do any additional exercise and still lost weight. I am hoping to increase my level of exercise, so that might help as well. If I could lose a stone and a half in ten weeks, I will be very pleased. 

Evening meal today was lean minced beef with bolognese sauce, and three small Yorkshire puds, no potatoes, then fruit (grapes) for pudding. Perhaps I could gradually cut out more of the carbs, yes I know yorkshire puds was a bit naughty. I have cut down lots on the crisps, chocolate, alcohol etc. I have also cut out the late night nibbles. 

It would seem strange to cut out fruits, and notice that you did not. If I cannot have fruit, what would I have for dessert? Fresh Pineapple is one of my favourites. 

I will try and moderate the seasonal calorific goodies from now until after Christmas.

As you say, it is a question of balance. I am trying to make changes that I can sustain until I have lost the weight that I would like to loose.


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## jimboalee (1 Dec 2008)

Don't go on a 'low carb' diet if you exercise.
Go on a 'Carbon balance' diet.

Any internet calculator will tell you your Basal Metabolic Rate, the kCals required to survive.

Work out the amount of energy you use to do things other than sleep and sit around.
Eat this in Carbs, and the remaining from your BMR in Protein and a little fat.

"Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" it is said, but if you ride to work and have brekky an hour after you shower, you are doing 'fasted lypolysis'. Burning fat in preference to carbs.

So Brunch on 700 kCals, lunch on 600 kCals and dinner on 500 kCals. 1800 total.

Therefore, if you burn 800 kCals riding, walking, climbing stairs, trotting to the loo etc, eat 800 kCals of carbs and 900 kCals of protein and 100 kCals of fat.

You will have to calculate it all out for your own ideal weight, frame size and exercise expenditure.

Good luck !!

ps. The exception to this is where exercise is over 1800 kCals worth. Eat it, and also eat the 900 protein and 100 fat.


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## peanut (1 Dec 2008)

there are loads of these calorie counters on the net.
http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calories/calorie_counter.htm

The reason sausages are suggested for breakfast is fat is an excellent slow release food and will therefore last longer than carbs like cereals and toast etc before you feel hungry again. 

It will therefore prevent rapid changes in your blood sugar levels that you get with sugars and carbs .

Its no surprise therfore that although controversial the Atkins diet actually works .


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## colly (1 Dec 2008)

When I did the above I wasn't specifically trying to lose weight. Although I knew I could do with shedding a few pounds. It was more to keep my mrs company so to speak. Moral support and all that. She took up a low carb diet of sorts where after a few weeks carbs were gradually introduced back into the diet. 
Having said that we always have eaten a pretty good diet with lots of fresh food etc and even though my mrs wanted to lose a bit of weight she wasn't 'big' as it were.
I don't know what kind of job you do but nowadays sitting down seems to be the way most people do their work. Offices, cars, etc etc. 
In that I am perhaps more fortunate than some others where I don't generally spend more than an hour a day at a desk or driving. I am on my feet and usually moving about. 

Butter, chocolate, wine, beer, yorkshire puddings, oh yes.


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## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

I am not working, at home a lot of the time. I go to a Pilates class once a week, and try to do a bit every day at home. This is increasing my core strength and stability. I will be adding a Tai Chi class to this in January, and that includes some of the more active Tai Chi exercises. 

I have tried swimming, but my physiotherapist advised back-stroke rather than breast stroke, and it is not easy doing back-stroke in a crowded pool. 

I hope to re-join one of the morning exercise classes at the local Leisure Centre. I am also waiting to join a beginners' rowing class on flat water, as they describe it. It is a very slow process getting fit after a back injury from over a year ago. 

Thank you all for the advice so far, further suggestions welcome. The advice given to me on here will help me lose weight, which in turn will help to increase my fitness.


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## Disgruntled Goat (1 Dec 2008)

I was diagnosed with a yeast intolerance so I cut out bread, refined sugars, fruit juice, alcohol but could eat brown rice, lentils, quinoa, potatoes, wholemeal pasta, oats. I found the weight came off steadily but surely without much difficulty. Nor did I miss the stuff that I couldn't eat/drink.

You need to try to eat eggs though. I was on a dozen a week.


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## peanut (1 Dec 2008)

I too have a back problem and I'm not sure I can swim anymore but a rare swim stroke you might try is old English sidestoke. 

Its a great compromise between breast and crawl.

Its an easy lazy stoke. Your head is well clear of the water all the time for easy breathing. there is no twisting of the trunk which you get with crawl or snapping which you get with breast stroke.
I used it very sucessfully 4 years ago to swim 200mts in 4 minutes as part of a sprint Tri . Give it a try I think you might be pleasantly surprized


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## peanut (1 Dec 2008)

Disgruntled Goat said:


> You need to try to eat eggs though. I was on a dozen a week.



did you find that lots of eggs gave wind and constipation


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## Disgruntled Goat (1 Dec 2008)

Not at all. Pehaps the extra roughage evened things out.


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## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

Eggs ugh. I was unfortunate enough to be working for the Ministry of Agriculture at the time of the Salmonella crisis. By coincidence I contracted Salmonella enteridites IIRC, and was very ill for many weeks.

Eggy shapes and eggy smells are a complete no no for me.


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## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

peanut said:


> I too have a back problem and I'm not sure I can swim anymore but a rare swim stroke you might try is old English sidestoke.
> 
> Its a great compromise between breast and crawl.
> 
> ...



I think that in the deep recesses of my brain, there may be a memory of doing that side-stroke. The disadvantage to breast stroke is that I tend to hold my head clear of the water, thus putting strain on the upper part of my back. However, when I do back-stroke, I tend to put a lot of effort into it, and if I collide with someone, we both might feel it quite hard.


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## Spoked Wheels (1 Dec 2008)

Speicher said:


> Is there a quick way to find calculate the carbohydrate content of prepared foods. For instance, anything with more than 10g of fat per 100g of a particular food, is IIRC, regarded as medium to high fat.
> Does this 10% guideline apply to carbs?
> 
> I am reading a book by India Knight explaining how she lost lots of weight, but for the first two weeks she states that one should not eat carbs, or fruit, (as it is too high in sugar). That seems a bit extreme to me, so I would prefer to _cut down_ on "bad" carbs. My preferred foods are things like jumbo oats, wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta, and brown rice etc, and Ryvita Dark Rye. She also suggests eggs, and or sausages for breakfast. Eggs I absolutely do not like, (unless heavily disguised as a cake or similar) and sausages I think are very high in fat, so I am not sure how that helps. She does have some sensible advice like using mashed cauliflower as a substitute in shepherd's pie etc.
> ...



Interesting post. Only last week my doctor suggested I stopped most of carbo intake. So, no rice, no pasta, no patoes, no biscuits, no cakes, etc.
Replace the carbs with sausages, meat, fish, eggs, salads and cook vegetables.

I find it very easy to follow and it is working


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## jimboalee (1 Dec 2008)

Typical Jimbo brunch :-

3 eggs, 2 sausages and a big thick slice of black pudding.

Typical Jimbo lunch :-

Protopure bar, Choc-chip cookie flavour.

Typical Jimbo dinner :-

Chicken Jalfrezi - No rice, no naan.


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## Speicher (1 Dec 2008)

jimboalee said:


> Typical Jimbo brunch :-
> 
> 3 eggs, 2 sausages and a big thick slice of black pudding.
> 
> ...




What is a protopure bar? Is it something you can carry around with you?
I can imagine that on a day out, a low carb diet might be difficult to stick to. 

Chicken Jalfrezi, lovely, with extra vegetables I take it?


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## Crackle (1 Dec 2008)

Less carbs is how I lost weight and in particular, no more bread. All bets off if I eat bread. Ricecackes suffice for me now. I eat more carbs before a big day but that's about it.


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## SilverSurfer (1 Dec 2008)

Jimbo - you'll need some fruit and veggies with that or you'll bung-up big style (stool?).


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## jimboalee (2 Dec 2008)

I said this is 'typical'. The little shop in the canteen sells small packets of dried fruit.

Check out Holland and Barrett for Protopure bars. 32g Protein, 1g Sugar.
It is NOT chocolate, which is good for me because I have an allergy for the cocoa stuff. They also have a laxative effect built in. 4 per week is enough.

They come at about £1.75 ish each, but they ARE a 'meal replacement' for strength athletes.

They ARE very nice.......


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## peanut (2 Dec 2008)

Speicher said:


> I think that in the deep recesses of my brain, there may be a memory of doing that side-stroke. The disadvantage to breast stroke is that I tend to hold my head clear of the water, thus putting strain on the upper part of my back. However, when I do back-stroke, I tend to put a lot of effort into it, and if I collide with someone, we both might feel it quite hard.



My physio suggested not using breast stroke because of the sudden whiplash movement in the stroke when kicking and lifting the head 
All the people I have ever seen breast stoking have the most beautifully smooth movements . In fact some have looked like sheer poetry in motion  I could watch them for hours.


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## Speicher (3 Dec 2008)

I have been making adjustments to my diet to cut down on the carbohydrates, and have already noticed a difference in my energy levels.
Did anyone else notice this, or is it a coincidence?

I am also planning ahead more, carrots and lentils to make soup.
My packed lunch on Friday will contain tuna and carrots, with nuts and raisins for "dessert" or nibbles instead of the crisps that are available.

I had curry tonight, no potatoes, nibbled carrots instead of bread and butter  while preparing the meal, and pineapple (fresh) for pudding.

I intend to look into this more closely, but can anyone tell me - are nuts counted as protein. I know there is fat in them but I thought that was the good fat, cannot remember if that is saturated or unsaturated.

BTW had some chocolate this evening, and it tasted strange. 
I have also realised I might be a very heavy drinker  - two stone overweight.


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## peanut (3 Dec 2008)

its a hard road you're travelling  good luck from one who has been there and come back.
The nuts to avoid are salted peanuts.
Its a good idea to carry a nibbles bag with you at all times just in case temptation comes along. You can add sunflower seeds which are very tasty.

Cutting carbs will give you low energy levels at first especially if you are cutting down on fats as well. You'll notice it most in the morning when you haven't eaten for 12 hours or so and your blood glucose levels are at their lowest.

This is a good time to have a cooked b'fast or porridge for slow sustained energy release.


Good sources of oils are oily fish sardines, mackrell, pilchards etc but make sure you get them in brine and not oil. 

Baked beans are very high protein source but probably best washed of tomatoe sauce  butter beans are nice and filling as are bolotti beans and chick peas


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## Speicher (3 Dec 2008)

I have found that some baked beans are called "lower sugar, lower salt" but is that still not low enough?

I would imagine that homemade soups are better than tinned, because you can cut down on the salt in them. I am doing this gradually. I still have my porridge for breakfast, but am making changes during the rest of the day.

I do not mind just losing two pounds a week, as long as I can see a steady loss, and feel that I am eating healthily, rather than "dieting".


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## peanut (3 Dec 2008)

two lbs a week is a lot . i'll be surprised if you can keep that up for long. You are doing all the right things . Its really helpful to keep a food diary with the calories. You can see where you need to make changes at a glance.
Heinz baked beans are fabulous I practically live on them but they are 150 cals per half tin 
Most tinned soups are about 300 cals per can so you should save lots making your own soups. They are much nicer too.

I just made a good find. Asda Irish stew is very very thick and tasty almost a meal in itself and only 200 cals per can


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## colly (3 Dec 2008)

Speicher said:


> I have been making adjustments to my diet to cut down on the carbohydrates, *and have already noticed a difference in my energy levels.*
> Did anyone else notice this, or is it a coincidence?
> 
> I am also planning ahead more, carrots and lentils to make soup.
> ...



Do you mean you have more energy or less? 

I can't say I noticed any difference when I cut out most of the carbs. I was eating but did notice pretty soon that I lost a slight craving that I had for breakfast cereals (or toast) when I first woke up. 
In fact on a couple of eggs I found it easy to get to lunchtime without thinking of a mid morning snack.


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## Speicher (3 Dec 2008)

I have more energy, and do not need a rest in the middle of the day.

Better lower my expectations then to losing one pound a week.


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## peanut (3 Dec 2008)

I think there is a period when the body reacts to the new food regime but then consistantly healthy foods should start to make you feel better. 
I think the most difficult part of this is trying to make it a lifestyle which we can carry on with otherwise eventually it is easy to slip back into less exercise and poor eating habits again.


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## jimboalee (4 Dec 2008)

Saturated fat – single chain hydrocarbon solid at room temperature. Eg Lard.

Poly saturated fat – Blend of hydrocarbons solid at room temperature. Eg Margarine.

Mono unsaturaded – Single chain hydrocarbon attached to a Methyl, liquid at room temperature. Eg Seed oils, Olive oils.

Poly unsaturated – Double chain HC & Methyl, liquid at room temperature. Eg Fish oil.


Simple Carbs – C6H12O6, Glycagon, Glycogen, starch, cellulose sugars etc.

Complex Carbs – Multiple chain Carbohydrates. Whole grains.

Really complex Carbs – Holley Street Avenger.


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2008)

From that Jimboalee, I take it that un-saturated fats are the "good" fats, in moderation. So where does proper butter come in that equation? Butter as opposed to it's many poor and tasteless imitations. I do not use a lot of butter, perhaps in a sponge pudding once a week. I have adjusted to sandwiches (with wholegrain bread) without butter, and also given up buttered toast.


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## Twenty Inch (4 Dec 2008)

Any fat that is solid at room temperature is a saturated fat and best avoided. This includes thinks like palm oil.

Butter is better for you than margarine, but still not good for you.

I've got to cut out the bread and butter too....


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## Bodhbh (4 Dec 2008)

Speicher said:


> I have also realised I might be a very heavy drinker  - two stone overweight.


Hrmm not sure if you're kidding, but booze is full of calories - both from the alcohol and the carbs (at least in pints). If i'm after loosing weight I generally cut it right out or at least down very heavily. 

Other thing is switch to shorts or wine, which at least just has the cals from the alcohol and almost no sugar. That said some beers are pretty low on them too, noticed one of the real ales the co-op are carrying atm has only 2g carbs a 500ml bottle and 155 kcals, but mostly it's much higher and your looking at 200-250 kcals.

Think 2lbs a week is fine, at least it was for me living on my own and therefore can control 100% what's in the fridge. More than that I think you might be loosing too fast, but whatever suits the individual.


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2008)

Yes I was kidding. My weekly alcohol intake these days might amount to two measures of spirits, and perhaps a medium bottle of beer, like Leffe Blond. Sometimes less than that . I have cut out the fizzy drinks, but some reason like a Coca Cola about once a fortnight.

 I do have full fat milk in my coffee.

If my target is one pound a week, and I lose two pounds a week, that would be good. As I am starting from very little exercise each week, and gradually increasing it, that should boost the weight loss. I am determined not to overdo it at Christmas. This should be easy this year, as I am at home and able to more easily control the available goodies of the edible variety. I do like mince pies however, but suppose that once I have lost the weight, really I could have those at any time of year.


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## jimboalee (4 Dec 2008)

So what would you say to a big thick slice of bread and dripping before a bike ride?


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2008)

Is that what you are having, or expect me to have?


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## jimboalee (4 Dec 2008)

Go to thread "Its Genetics too".

Bread and dripping was widely available in 1948. That's about what was breakfast for them lot in the photo before a thirty miler from Shirley to Stratford and back to Henley for an ice cream.

Money was short, so they did what they could. It was Saturday's loaf and dripping from last Sunday's shoulder of pork.

As my Mum very often told me. 

I couldn't stand the stuff, so had fried bread in butter.


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2008)

I could do the fried bread bit, with bacon. 

And the ice cream. BTW which is the best ice cream shop in Henley in Arden?

I found a tin of smoked kippers, half of which I had for my lunch.
Perhaps frozen ones would be better, well I would defrost them first, as then they would not be in oil. If I eat up the "oily" stuff in the cupboard I can replace it the next time I do shopping, and get the more healthy stuff.


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## Twenty Inch (4 Dec 2008)

have we not spoken about the GI diet, Speicher? Well worth looking into. I have a copy of the book of you want to borrow it.


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## Fab Foodie (4 Dec 2008)

jimboalee said:


> Saturated fat – single chain hydrocarbon solid at room temperature. Eg Lard.
> 
> Poly saturated fat – Blend of hydrocarbons solid at room temperature. Eg Margarine.
> 
> ...




Oh god...

OK, fats and Carbs 101.

"Fats or oils" as we know then are made up of 2 connected bits, a fatty acid chain joined to a glycerol molecule. The glycerol molecule may have 1, 2 or 3 fatty acid chains attached making-up either mono, do or tri-glycerides. arguably a monoglyceride is a straight hydrocarbon chain but all the rest are branched. The fatty acids chains may be as short as 4 carbon atoms long (common in butter) up to 22 (more common in fish-oils) generally.

If the fatty acid chain has it's full compliment of Hydrogen atoms then it is called "Saturated", Beef fat, FULLY Hydrogenated fats it can however and have a double bond between carbon atoms in its chain and thius is said to be unsaturated or Mono-unsaturated if 1 double bond. 2 or more Double bonds in the chain are Poly-unsaturated. Olive Oil, nut oils, bird fats even lard have significant mono-unsaturates, sunflower and rape et al are polyunsaturated, Fish oils are highly unsaturated.
More unsaturation, less stability. Unsaturated fats can be hardened by Hydrogenation which removes the double bond making the chains more saturated. (BTW, point of order here FULLY HYDROGENATED FATS DO NOT CONTAIN TRANS_FATS, only PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED)... Sorry.

Now, with me so far, remember the Tri-glyceride, this is the most natural form of fat 1 glcerol + 3 fatty acids. The fatty acids can be a mix of saturated, monounsaturated or polyunsaturated, It's a complex business. You can also harden a fat by mixing the fatty acid chains around, stick 'em all onto a glycerol backbone and remove all the unsaturated ones and hey presto, hard fat!

Ok enough about fats.

Carbs.
Carbs are either simple sugars, "simple polymers" of simple sugars or Complex polymers of simple sugars.

Simple sugars; Glucose/Dextrose, Sucrose, lactose, Fructose, Maltose

Simple Polymers; Poly-dextrose, Maltodextrin, simple starches, Glycogen

Complex Carbs; Some starches, Cellulose (damned indigestible but simply structured), fibres, gums, Algins, Lignins/woody tissues etc.

Glucose is interesting, in shorts simple chain linked we get simple starches (Plant energy store) and Glycogen (Animal energy store) these are relatively easily broken down and have a rapid energy release. Join Glucose molecules another way and you get almost indistructable Cellulose. Other plant fibre material can be a bit starch and a bit cellulose-like and can be termed resistant starches 'cos they're almost impossible to break down.


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## peanut (4 Dec 2008)

Twenty Inch said:


> Any fat that is solid at room temperature is a saturated fat and best avoided. This includes thinks like palm oil.
> 
> Butter is better for you than margarine, but still not good for you.
> 
> I've got to cut out the bread and butter too....



why give up butter ? its a natural healthy product. Providing you haven't got a dairy product intolerance why give it up?

Do you intend to give up butter for the rest of your life ? and never eat it again?
I made the same decision about 10 years ago and recently I too realised that my yo-yo weight has been because I give certain things up until I lose weight then I gradually start to eat them again because I enjoy eating them


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## Speicher (4 Dec 2008)

I made some soup this evening for lunch on Saturday and Sunday. One slice of bacon, lentils, chicken stock, one small potato, herbs, ginger (grated, in vinegar), no salt other than what is in the Oxo cube.

Plenty of fruit in the fridge, so this week should kick start things well.


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## jimboalee (5 Dec 2008)

Oh Fab Foodie, that told me  .

What you neglected to say was EVERTHING in my post was bullshit.

As you should be aware, every man and his dog will know that the MOST complex carbs are the four twin Webers on a Ferarri 308.

B)


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## yello (5 Dec 2008)

My brother used to go on about twin throat webers. He was fat. I understand why now.

Edit: No I don't. As much as I try to understand this sort of stuff, talk of tri-glicerides etc just has the effect of making my eyes glaze over (is that a side effect?). I like to read Dr Briffa's web pages because I find him often relatively simple to follow but even then I find myself becoming depressed with my lack of understanding and reaching for a slab of complex carbohydrate.


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## Fab Foodie (5 Dec 2008)

yello said:


> My brother used to go on about twin throat webers. He was fat. I understand why now.
> 
> Edit: No I don't. As much as I try to understand this sort of stuff, talk of tri-glicerides etc just has the effect of making my eyes glaze over (is that a side effect?). I like to read Dr Briffa's web pages because I find him often relatively simple to follow but even then I find myself becoming depressed with my lack of understanding and reaching for a slab of complex carbohydrate.



I know it's not everybodies cup of tea, but I just wanted to get the facts straighter!


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## peanut (5 Dec 2008)

jimboalee said:


> So what would you say to a big thick slice of bread and dripping before a bike ride?



I'd say splash it all over John and really rub it in well


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## jimboalee (8 Dec 2008)

I'm riding a 200km on Wednesday.

Start at 06:00 and arrive at first control ( Stratford U Avon ) at 07:15.
Won't eat anything until Stratford and then something more at Stow.
Back to Stratford for lunch and then on to Measham - 3 1/2 hour stage - for tea.
After Measham, home.

The whole ride says 3800 kCals.
I'll try to eat 3000 kCals. 1000 the evening before and 2000 during the ride.

Mainly iced cakes and pastries, with a meat sandwich for lunch.

The remaining 800 kCals will be 'Low carb'.
Discuss....


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## peanut (8 Dec 2008)

jimboalee said:


> I'm riding a 200km on Wednesday.
> 
> Start at 06:00 and arrive at first control ( Stratford U Avon ) at 07:15.
> Won't eat anything until Stratford and then something more at Stow.
> ...



I cant tork athamoment cos ithgot mi marf fullov carbs innit

I'd say you got it all the wrong way round . Eat the slow release stuff first before you ride like fats meat sausages porridge etc and the quick energy release stuff like cakes and biscuits during and after the ride when you need lots of immediate energy

You'll get no nutritional benefit from the meat sandwich until several hours after eating it and it will be very little .
Better to eat jam sandwiches or honey and chocs mid day


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## yello (8 Dec 2008)

I thought carb mid ride was traditional wisdom but, a few weeks back, our club did a 'restaurant ride' (so popular, it's to become a regular feature). The lunch menu wasn't particularly varied and I ended up eating rather a lot of meat (anyone that's dined in France will know they don't skimp on the meat portion). The single 'energy boost' intake came from a chocolate mousse. 

I didn't half feel strong in the afternoon - all that protein did something!


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## Fab Foodie (8 Dec 2008)

yello said:


> I thought carb mid ride was traditional wisdom but, a few weeks back, our club did a 'restaurant ride' (so popular, it's to become a regular feature). The lunch menu wasn't particularly varied and I ended up eating rather a lot of meat (anyone that's dined in France will know they don't skimp on the meat portion). The single 'energy boost' intake came from a chocolate mousse.
> 
> I didn't half feel strong in the afternoon - all that protein did something!



Interesting...
In Russia last week, the diet was very meat heavy compared to my normal intake. I found I felt less hungry, less sleepy post meals and inbetween, less inclined to snack. 
Protein is very satiating, and slow energy release (c/w carbs) and generates less insulin fluctuation, so there maybe good reason for your experience.

Usain bolt won his medals on a diet of McNuggets. maybe it's time to re-write the established creed on diet and sport.


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## jimboalee (9 Dec 2008)

The meat sandwich, and maybe quick fried bacon and egg at a roadside mobile cafe is what I've been doing for years.

Summer Sundays, I will ride a 200km Calendar ride, or a 300 km Permanent ( starting at sunrise ) and then go dancing with my GF on the evening.

Supper on the previous evening might be 16 oz of lean mince in a giant Lasagne.


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## yello (9 Dec 2008)

You can start a 300 at sunrise and be back for evening... that's shifting! Think I'm going to be having bacon butties from now on!


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## peanut (9 Dec 2008)

jimboalee said:


> The meat sandwich, and maybe quick fried bacon and egg at a roadside mobile cafe is what I've been doing for years.
> 
> Summer Sundays, I will ride a 200km Calendar ride, or a 300 km Permanent ( starting at sunrise ) and then go dancing with my GF on the evening.
> 
> Supper on the previous evening might be 16 oz of lean mince in a giant Lasagne.



well you seem to be pretty set with your current eating regime so why are you wasting out time asking for nutritional advice ?


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## jimboalee (10 Dec 2008)

Yup, in the middle of summer, I can start off at 04:00 in the earie dawn. 310 km and 15 1/2 hours later, at an average speed of 20 kmh, I can be back home, showered and dressed for a 21:00 boogie at the local pub.

I must be doing something right, 'cus I haven't collapsed with exhaustion yet!

I lie. I did collapse once in 2000 on a 160km Audax from Earlswood village hall, via Banbury, Stow and another place I forget. The memory of Edge Hill at 34 Deg C air temp is engraved on my brain, so from then on, I calculate my requirement and eat WELL.

20kmh = 12.5mph is a slowish average for an AUK Brevet. The speed limits are 15 - 30 kmh, so I am below average expectation for AUK regulations.
There are not many AUK Randonneurs who go to the extent of Gel packs, energy bars and special energy drinks. There a many AUK Randonneurs who finish before me. Cakes, buns, cakes, buns and more cakes.

Many AUK controls are at Patisseries, cafes or bakeries, because that's what they like.

I'm more in favour of a big bacon, sausage and egg sandwich. One where the chef cuts the loaf lengthways .


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## Tim Bennet. (10 Dec 2008)

Theories are fine, but sometimes you just have to eat what you want. On the Northern Dales 200 from Arnside I always tried to make it round and back to Devil's Bridge at Kirby Lonsdale before the tea van closed, as the best pick me up for final dash to the finish was a bacon butty and mug of tea.

Theory says it's all wrong, but after a day of sweet, sickly things, a load of grease and tommy sauce was like a energy bolt from Zeus himself.


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## yello (10 Dec 2008)

I won't disagree with the timings, maybe it's the definitions of morning and evening that I'd contest.. 4am is the middle of the bleddy night and 9pm ain't evening in my book


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## peanut (10 Dec 2008)

yello said:


> I won't disagree with the timings, maybe it's the definitions of morning and evening that I'd contest.. 4am is the middle of the bleddy night and 9pm ain't evening in my book



these audax'ers are bluddy nutters all of em  500 km one day hilly audax and they are thinking of increasing it this year to 600km to make it more challenging.


Eating savoury food for energy is purely psycological as it takes the body hours to process it and reap any energy from a meat meal.


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## Twenty Inch (17 Dec 2008)

Fab Foodie said:


> Interesting...
> In Russia last week, the diet was very meat heavy compared to my normal intake. I found I felt less hungry, less sleepy post meals and inbetween, less inclined to snack.
> Protein is very satiating, and slow energy release (c/w carbs) and generates less insulin fluctuation, so there maybe good reason for your experience.



GI diet is very firm about a steady intake of protein throughout the day, for the reasons you outline above.


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