# Presta Valves without lock nut



## Phaeton (19 Oct 2019)

Is it okay to have presta valves without the locknut, never had them like that before but new bike has come with no locknuts.


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## I like Skol (19 Oct 2019)

Yes, i actually seek out valves with no thread where they are available. My track pump fits better when it isn't being forced over the threads and in theory should seal better.


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## Phaeton (19 Oct 2019)

These have threads just no locknuts, I will be swapping them out shortly for slime filled anyway, rims are tubeless but looking on Schwalbe website the Smart Sams aren't


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Oct 2019)

Fine without.


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## Ian H (19 Oct 2019)

The locknuts were once useful as spacers for toeclips. I haven't since found a use for them.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Oct 2019)

Ian H said:


> The locknuts were once useful as spacers for toeclips. I haven't since found a use for them.



Spacers for lights, racks etc. Two uses I can remember using them for.


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## Smokin Joe (19 Oct 2019)

Locknuts come come off the tubes immediately after the valve caps and follow them into the bin. Pointless junk.


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## Ian H (19 Oct 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Spacers for lights, racks etc. Two uses I can remember using them for.


Ah! Memory jogged. I might have done a few things like that.


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## Threevok (19 Oct 2019)

I would draw the OP's attention to Rule #60


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## Phaeton (19 Oct 2019)

Threevok said:


> I would draw the OP's attention to Rule #60


*Rule 60*. At night your *cycle* MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. ... Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that *cyclists* who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

Nope can't see the relevance


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## footloose crow (19 Oct 2019)

This Rule 60?

RULE #60 || Use the washer-nut and valve-stem cap when changing inner tubes. They each serve a purpose even you can figure out

I had a crisis about what to do with my washer nut on my new bike. In the end I left if half way up the thread. Can't scratch the rim and it there in case.....umm, in case.....just in case.


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## voyager (19 Oct 2019)

always remove them , once they were brass , always put them in the tot box and weighed them in.


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## alecstilleyedye (19 Oct 2019)

they are useful if you are going tubeless for keeping the valve a good snug fit on the rim...


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## slowmotion (19 Oct 2019)

I don't bother with them or valve caps. I feel a bit less of a slob after reading that others don't either.


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## Ajax Bay (19 Oct 2019)

Threevok said:


> I would draw the OP's attention to Rule #60





Phaeton said:


> *Rule 60*. . . . lights . . .
> Nope can't see the relevance


Nope: this Rule #60 ('#' is important in this context, btw, link witheld):
"Ditch the washer-nut and valve-stem cap. You are not, under any circumstances, to employ the use of the washer-nut and valve-stem cap that come with your inner-tubes or tubulars. They are only supplied to meet shipping regulations. They are useless when it comes to tubes and tires."
A Presta valve stem cap can be useful if cut in half. Screwed down onto the Presta valve, a Shraeder pump head will give some sort of fit to get a bit of air in, if the rider has no access to a pump/inflator with a Presta valve head.


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## ColinJ (19 Oct 2019)

I think the Presta valve caps might help to protect spare tubes while they are carried around rolled up but don't do much once the tubes are in use.


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## Pale Rider (20 Oct 2019)

Always use the lock ring.

Locates the valve nice and straight when changing a tube, and makes it easier to use a push on pump, which most track pumps are.



Phaeton said:


> These have threads just no locknuts, I will be swapping them out shortly for slime filled anyway, rims are tubeless but looking on Schwalbe website the Smart Sams aren't



The carcase of the Smart Sams is not, strictly speaking, air tight.

They should still set up OK as tubeless, although I have a theory that sealant dries out faster due to evaporation.

Might be cobblers, but it doesn't matter if you use slime tubes.


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## Phaeton (20 Oct 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> They should still set up OK as tubeless, although I have a theory that sealant dries out faster due to evaporation.


I was reading something last night about going tubeless & that was one of the points, it stated that the sealant would only last a couple of months before drying out. Not something I encounter with tubes, seems a more hassle than it's worth to me.


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## fossyant (20 Oct 2019)

Always use caps, but not lock nuts.


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## Smudge (20 Oct 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Always use the lock ring.
> 
> Locates the valve nice and straight when changing a tube, and makes it easier to use a push on pump, which most track pumps are.



This is why i leave them on.


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## Yellow Saddle (20 Oct 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Locknuts come come off the tubes immediately after the valve caps and follow them into the bin. Pointless junk.





slowmotion said:


> I don't bother with them or valve caps. I feel a bit less of a slob after reading that others don't either.



Funny, I would never in a million years have put you two in the Extreme Weight Weenie category. At least you had the sense to not admit it in public and claim other reasons for your actions.

I suspect you both indulge in pink drinks too, when no-ones watching. Well, I'm watching you.


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## Ian H (20 Oct 2019)

A beginners' mistake is to screw the lock-ring up tight before inflation and thus trap the tube under the bead of the tyre at that point. More important on narrow rims.


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## ColinJ (20 Oct 2019)

Ian H said:


> A beginners' mistake is to screw the lock-ring up tight before inflation and thus trap the tube under the bead of the tyre at that point. More important on narrow rims.


I was guilty of that 30 years ago!

These days I leave the ring loose and push the valve body in before inflating the tube to make _sure _the tube is not trapped.


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## Phaeton (20 Oct 2019)

Managed over 30 miles today across lots of different terrain & was not visited by the fairy whose name you shouldn't speak, as I went around the back of the house I heard the doorbell, nice Amazon lady had arrived with my slimed tubes, so after a shower & food I will be fitting those. Widest I could find were 2.20 the tyres are 2.35 hope they stretch & don't tear if punctured.


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

Ian H said:


> The locknuts were once useful as spacers for toeclips. I haven't since found a use for them.


Handy for lifting a bottle cage above a clashing front mech mount.


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

Smudge said:


> This is why i leave them on.


Me too. Can be a right old pain trying to get a pump on a tube without them.
Must admit i see anyone who leaves them off because of "the rules" or some crowd/club mentality they want to fit into as a bit of a ponce.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Oct 2019)

Blue Hills said:


> Me too. Can be a right old pain trying to get a pump on a tube without them.
> Must admit i see anyone who leaves them off because of "the rules" or some crowd/club mentality they want to fit into as a bit of a ponce.


Who are you calling a big ponce, you little ponce?


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## Dec66 (21 Oct 2019)

I'm going to defend the locknut.

It stops the valve sinking into the rim when tube is deflated and I'm attaching the pump.

So there.


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## HLaB (21 Oct 2019)

I think lock nuts hark back to days when engineering was less precise and valve stems could vibrate in the hole. I remove them and try to by tubes without them.


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## Dogtrousers (21 Oct 2019)

WTF is a "washer nut"? A washer is not threaded, and a nut is threaded. What kind of nonsense is this?

I always use both the lock nut and the valve cap*. Seeing that the nice people at the tube factory have given them to me, it would seem rude not to. I expect something mildly bad will happen to me if I don't use them, and I'm not going to risk finding out exactly what. They are to my valve stems as the ravens are to the Tower of London.

* until I lose them. Which is generally not a very long time.


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## Smudge (21 Oct 2019)

I also use the dust caps, i just dont bother to replace them if i lose them.


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## Phaeton (21 Oct 2019)

Just an FYI as it's my thread, the dust caps were originally a final seal to assist incase the main seal had a slight weep. They all used to be fitted with a rubber O ring, which due to I suspect manufacturing costs they now seem to not have


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> Who are you calling a big ponce, you little ponce?


"a bit of" I said. 

tho' 

If you also leave water at home, or only take one bottle on a longish ride, another bit of.
and then beg water from me, another bit of
or carry a tiddly tiddly pump that looks great but won't actually work so borrow mine and then bust it, not recognising a real pump, a bit more
(above three all happened to me - twas a slippery slope when they started leaving the lock-nut off)


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

Dec66 said:


> I'm going to defend the locknut.
> 
> It stops the valve sinking into the rim when tube is deflated and I'm attaching the pump.
> 
> So there.


exactly - surely this happens to folk who leave them off? Or are they blessed in some special way?
To my horror I realised a while ago that I had bought two presta valve tubes that don't even have threads on the valve stem so I can't even add one of my spares - a right old pain they are.


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## Smokin Joe (21 Oct 2019)

To stop the valve sinking into the rim when you connect the pump either press the tyre down with your thumb or push it onto the ground.


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> To stop the valve sinking into the rim when you connect the pump either press the tyre down with your thumb or push it onto the ground.


I take it you don't use Marathons?


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## Dec66 (21 Oct 2019)

Smokin Joe said:


> To stop the valve sinking into the rim when you connect the pump either press the tyre down with your thumb or push it onto the ground.


With a track pump?

I'm not a gibbon?

And why do that when there's a perfectly good lock nut on the valve stem?


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## HLaB (21 Oct 2019)

I use valve caps just now on my to prolong the life of my more permanent tubeless valves. It's not really an issue with the tubes I previously used on the best bike. Although I use caps on the commuter which has tubes as the generally transition s between being in the car or the bus way, which can get gritty. As a result is cleaned less


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## youngoldbloke (21 Oct 2019)

Dec66 said:


> With a track pump?
> 
> I'm not a gibbon?
> 
> And why do that when there's a perfectly good lock nut on the valve stem?


I actively seek out inner tubes with unthreaded Presta valve stems - they are much kinder to push on chucks. You push down on the tyre with one hand and push the track-pump chuck on with the other. Once the chuck is attached you just inflate as usual. No hassle. And I throw the caps away. They protect the tube when folded, but unnecessary otherwise - and there is the weight penalty of course.


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## Blue Hills (21 Oct 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> - and there is the weight penalty of course.


Recommend, that if not, you get yourself circumcised.
Then your track/road opponents will spot your dust caps, think they have got you beat, but little do they know ...;.


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## derrick (21 Oct 2019)

Phaeton said:


> Is it okay to have presta valves without the locknut, never had them like that before but new bike has come with no locknuts.


Its fine. You don't want to carry any extra weight.


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## Dec66 (21 Oct 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> I actively seek out inner tubes with unthreaded Presta valve stems - they are much kinder to push on chucks. You push down on the tyre with one hand and push the track-pump chuck on with the other. Once the chuck is attached you just inflate as usual. No hassle. And I throw the caps away. They protect the tube when folded, but unnecessary otherwise - and there is the weight penalty of course.


"Weight penalty" 

Pick your nose before a ride, it'll probably have much the same effect in terms of weight reduction


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## PaulSB (22 Oct 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> You push down on the tyre with one hand and push the track-pump chuck on with the other.



I like to have my valves at the base of the wheel. As I attach the chuck this provides the necessary resistance without having to push the valve up from the opposite side.

I've always understood having the valve in this position, plus the nut, helps minimise the valve rocking during inflation.


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## PaulSB (22 Oct 2019)

Pale Rider said:


> Always use the lock ring.
> 
> Locates the valve nice and straight when changing a tube, and makes it easier to use a push on pump, which most track pumps are.



Exactly my reasoning. I always use the dust caps as well as I think they look smarter than a naked valve.

Dust caps must have a purpose or else manufacturers would have dumped them long ago. I suspect the clue is in the name!!


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## youngoldbloke (22 Oct 2019)

PaulSB said:


> _Dust caps must have a purpose or else manufacturers would have dumped them long ago. I suspect the clue is in the name!!_


- they protect the tube when packed and folded before use. I always keep them on the spare tubes I carry for this reason. Dust caps on Schrader valves I understand, but not needed on Presta.


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## EltonFrog (22 Oct 2019)

Three pages on this. THREE!

I’m not going to take it seriously until Yellow Saddle has commented.


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## Dogtrousers (22 Oct 2019)

Lance Armstrong once said "valve cap - not cool"

So if you are minded to be influenced one way or the other by him, you now know his stated position.


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## Poacher (22 Oct 2019)

Dec66 said:


> "Weight penalty"
> 
> Pick your nose before a ride, it'll probably have much the same effect in terms of weight reduction


Yebbut the bogey in your nose isn't subject to rotational forces, unless you're Regan in The Exorcist.


CarlP said:


> Three pages on this. THREE!
> 
> I’m not going to take it seriously until Yellow Saddle has commented.


To attract @Yellow Saddle 's comment you first have to invoke His presence with the traditional incantation - it's no use just casually mentioning Him without using the @ symbol.


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## Yellow Saddle (22 Oct 2019)

Poacher said:


> Yebbut the bogey in your nose isn't subject to rotational forces, unless you're Regan in The Exorcist.
> 
> To attract @Yellow Saddle 's comment you first have to invoke His presence with the traditional incantation - it's no use just casually mentioning Him without using the @ symbol.



He has spoken on the issue, in post 21 already. Subject is closed. Those who don't use locknuts and caps have been judged and noted.


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## Poacher (22 Oct 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He has spoken on the issue, in post 21 already. Subject is closed. Those who don't use locknuts and caps have been judged and noted.


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## EltonFrog (22 Oct 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> He has spoken on the issue, in post 21 already. Subject is closed. Those who don't use locknuts and caps have been judged and noted.


Well, now, don’t I feel foolish for not noticing that.


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## rogerzilla (22 Oct 2019)

With high pressure tyres > 100 psi, repeatedly snugging these nuts down just encourages the valve to creep into the rim hole, straining the tube and leading to an unpatchable puncture. Either put the nut *inside* the rim to prevent creep, or throw it away.

Most people use the nut as an aid to tyre inflation because it stops the valve disappearing into the rim when you try to attach a pump head - but this only happens with fully flat or really soft tyres, and in those cases it's easy enough to hold it in place through the tread, using your other hand.


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## Drago (22 Oct 2019)

Next time you're in a communist state have a look see and make not of how they have their Presta valves. You'll note lack of lock ring and dust cap because they're considered western and decadent.

Here in the Drago household we refer to them as freedom caps and democracy rings, but only while saluting the picture of his worshipfulness President Donald J. Trump that hangs over my fireplace.


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## Dogtrousers (22 Oct 2019)

Drago said:


> Next time you're in a communist state have a look see and make not of how they have their Presta valves. You'll note lack of lock ring and dust cap because they're considered western and decadent.


Nonsense.

Merely possessing a Presta valve is a one way ticket to the Gulags. Woods valves only, comrade.


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2019)

Drago said:


> Next time you're in a communist state have a look see and make not of how they have their Presta valves. You'll note lack of lock ring and dust cap because they're considered western and decadent.
> 
> Here in the Drago household we refer to them as freedom caps and democracy rings, but only while saluting the picture of his worshipfulness President Donald J. Trump that hangs over my fireplace.


He's your president? Good, I'm glad somebody thinks he is their leader. I'm beginning to think this is just an extended comedy sketch. Except it's not funny, especially if you're a Latino, a Kurd, a Democrat, a member of the press, or someone not in lockstep with Donald John Trump.


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## Gravity Aided (22 Oct 2019)

I use the rings, but I have recently been running across steel jacketed presta valves without threads for deep V rims. I use those on my single speed Facet, no problems to report. Perhaps there is room in this world for both threaded and washered Presta Valves, and those otherwise. 

Peace.


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## Drago (22 Oct 2019)

Gravity Aided said:


> He's your president? Good, I'm glad somebody thinks he is their leader. I'm beginning to think this is just an extended comedy sketch. Except it's not funny, especially if you're a Latino, a Kurd, a Democrat, a member of the press, or someone not in lockstep with Donald John Trump.


Fortunately I'm jewish, and he loves me.


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## rrarider (22 Oct 2019)

For years I'd always tightened down the locknut as a matter of course. Lately after switching to VIttoria tubes (mainly because they were threaded and had a lucknut) I started getting punctures when, after tightening the nut down hard when the tube was flat, I inflated the tyre with a track pump. I have to agree with @rogerzilla , as tightening pulled too much of the rubber on the valve stem through the rim hole and caused an irreparable puncture. I now don't use the locknuts at all, even though they do make the wheel look neater.


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## Harry1 (22 Oct 2019)

rrarider said:


> For years I'd always tightened down the locknut as a matter of course. Lately after switching to VIttoria tubes (mainly because they were threaded and had a lucknut) I started getting punctures when, after tightening the nut down hard when the tube was flat, I inflated the tyre with a track pump. I have to agree with @rogerzilla , as tightening pulled too much of the rubber on the valve stem through the rim hole and caused an irreparable puncture. I now don't use the locknuts at all, even though they do make the wheel look neater.


Interesting, I have always used a locking nut because it makes it a bit easier to pump up tyres and because they look better. I thought they also helped to keep your valve from rattling around in the rim too? Have you noticed any difference in rattling since you stopped using the locknuts?


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## rrarider (22 Oct 2019)

Harry1 said:


> Interesting, I have always used a locking nut because it makes it a bit easier to pump up tyres and because they look better. I thought they also helped to keep your valve from rattling around in the rim too? Have you noticed any difference in rattling since you stopped using the locknuts?


No, they don't rattle at all, as I have very skinny wheels and tyres and they are inflated to 110 psi.


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## Gravity Aided (23 Oct 2019)

Drago said:


> Fortunately I'm jewish, and he loves me.


No, he loves Donald John Trump.


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## G3CWI (23 Oct 2019)

In pro racing circles they are omitted due to their rotational mass. Pretty sure GCN did a video early in April that conclusively showed that you could lose as much as 10 seconds per wheel over the course of a Grand Tour.


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## Yellow Saddle (23 Oct 2019)

G3CWI said:


> In pro racing circles they are omitted due to their rotational mass. Pretty sure GCN did a video early in April that conclusively showed that you could lose as much as 10 seconds per wheel over the course of a Grand Tour.


I am pretty certain GCN's video is conclusively BS. 
I'm going to fit two per wheel right now and measure the slowing down to work and back. 
Lets see if that adds up to the 0.0062% difference they found for that calculation on a 90-hour TDF. 
I've doubled the difference by putting on two nuts per wheel, so I should easily be able to measure a 0.0124% difference on my ride.
I'll report back tomorrow.
Not.


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## Drago (23 Oct 2019)

My personal view is that most of GCN's tests are closer to flat earth and religious creationism that actual science. They usually sum up by saying, "Our test wasn't very scientific, but..."

No 'buts' matey, it simply wasn't very scientific.


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## youngoldbloke (23 Oct 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I am pretty certain GCN's video is conclusively BS.
> I'm going to fit two per wheel right now and measure the slowing down to work and back.
> Lets see if that adds up to the 0.0062% difference they found for that calculation on a 90-hour TDF.
> I've doubled the difference by putting on two nuts per wheel, so I should easily be able to measure a 0.0124% difference on my ride.
> ...


Be careful - Those wheels might need balancing with all that extra weight on the valve side!


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## Venod (23 Oct 2019)

I always used them with tubes, I didn't see a problem with them, they are even more important now I run tubeless.


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## youngoldbloke (24 Oct 2019)

Tubeless - yes, very important, tubes - unnecessary - I use these


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## Yellow Saddle (24 Oct 2019)

youngoldbloke said:


> Tubeless - yes, very important, tubes - unnecessary - I use these
> View attachment 490306


Yes but...what do you do with the caps?


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## youngoldbloke (24 Oct 2019)

Leave them on while the tube is folded, dispose of them when the tube is fitted - can't recycle black plastic around here, so it's landfill for them I imagine. (I quite liked the look of Continental yellow valve caps actually, though found the ends split after a short time rendering them pointless anyway).


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## Ajax Bay (24 Oct 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I am pretty certain GCN's video is conclusively BS.


Yes, but mildly entertaining parodistic BS.
Using valve nuts and valve caps are just two more things to unscrew and screw back on when fixing a flat fast.


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## youngoldbloke (24 Oct 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> Yes, but mildly entertaining parodistic BS.
> Using valve nuts and valve caps are just two more things to unscrew and screw back on when fixing a flat fast.


- and you always lose them in the undergrowth anyway.


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## Dogtrousers (24 Oct 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I am pretty certain GCN's video is conclusively BS.


Whaaat?  Never!

I missed the GCN vide about valve caps. I must look it up. I must admit I find the GCN videos quite entertaining, silly as they are. Even if they are all about "Getting ready for your next gran fondo" (whatever one of those is) and "How to get aero". They have very little to do with cycling as I experience it, but that's kind of the point. 

If someone was running a Youtube channel about my kind of cycling it'd be pretty damn dull. "In this weeks video we compare peanut-based foods for slow trundly century rides. Are Snickers bars better than peanut butter sandwiches? And we revisit the old question: ready salted or dry roast?"

Maybe I'll start a channel. I could be an influencer.


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## Yellow Saddle (24 Oct 2019)

Ajax Bay said:


> Yes, but mildly entertaining parodistic BS.


OK, I forgive them then.


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## Gravity Aided (25 Oct 2019)

Dogtrousers said:


> Whaaat?  Never!
> 
> I missed the GCN vide about valve caps. I must look it up. I must admit I find the GCN videos quite entertaining, silly as they are. Even if they are all about "Getting ready for your next gran fondo" (whatever one of those is) and "How to get aero". They have very little to do with cycling as I experience it, but that's kind of the point.
> 
> ...


Honey Dry Roast.


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