# Low Carb and Cycling



## Ohm Sweet Ohm (12 May 2009)

Hi there

Does anyone here follow a low carb diet and cycle? Do you think it affects your cycling ability? 
I've been low carbing for a few years now (with a naughty 6 month blip in the middle ). Obviously a glucose hit on a long journey is out, so I'd love to hear any stories or tips anyone has about the pluses / pitfalls of cycling and low carbing?

Thanks


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## yello (12 May 2009)

I'm not answering your query but I am interested in any responses... though I'm not sure just how many there'll be!

I've been reading with interest about low carb diets for a while now but I have to admit that I'm uncertain. I'd be interested to know how you get on with it and what got you onto one in the first place. It does defy conventional thought of the majority of a diet being carb.


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## GrumpyGregry (12 May 2009)

had to do three weeks on no/lo carb as a 'priming phase' to my current much more balanced diet. during the second week I went to the gym to do my normal session of weights and could not complete my resistance workout as the place began to spin around and around - blood sugar through the floor I imagine. start of my cycling 'season' coincided with the third week. went out to do a nice easy 25 miles, 20 miles in I bonked BIG TIME.

i guess if your body has adapted over time you could combine low carbs and cycling succesfully. with a 26 mile round trip commute to do i'm not going to bother to try to find out.


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## I am Spartacus (12 May 2009)

fad...? or you just like bonking?


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## Soltydog (12 May 2009)

I was on a very low carb diet back end of last year. I didn't do any real kind of distance rides, but plenty of commutes (30+ mile round trip) 
It does affect your ability, but you have to be realistic. On the low carb diet my times were slower by upto 15% but I don't ride against the clock anyway, so it wasn't an issue for me. I did my first 100 miler in January whilst still on a lowish carb diet & was struggling a bit towards the end, 80ish miles onwards. Even now I don't stock up on carbs too much, unless i'm off on a long ride (100 miles) then maybe have jacket spuds, or pasta for tea the evening before & then porrige for breakfast & flapjacks whilst riding.

My initial low carb diet was advised by my GP & it's amazing how much carbs can affect your moods


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## MacB (12 May 2009)

so what're the benefits of low carb? is it just a follow on from the Atkins theory?


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## yello (12 May 2009)

I read Dr Briffa's webblogpage thing (because I like alternative opinions!) and he's a big fan of low carb.

It's really about controlling insulin levels and keeping your body chemistry stable rather than spiking it with quick release carbs. He puts a lot of emphasis on the 'evolutionary perspective'... basically trying to eat in-line with how our systems have developed.

It interests me because it's something that has a degree of intuitiveness for me. I can see some sense in what is said and Briffa does back it up with the research that's out there (though no doubt picks and chooses!) However, it just runs contrary to everything I've otherwise been told/read as a suitable diet for someone interested in endurance cycling!


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (12 May 2009)

Atkins is low carb, high fat, moderate protein. Or at least the original book by Atkins was. They watered it down in the newer editions of the book by lowering the fat intake to appease the doubters. 
I originally low carbed to lose weight, but soon found how much healthier I felt without eating high carb foods. 
The media gave the impression that low carb was eat as much meat, greasy english breakfasts as you want. That isn't true. you need to eat loads of salad and veg too. It's basically what we would have eaten as hunter gatherers. 

Thank you everyone for your response. 

Grumpy greg - 2/3 weeks isn't really enough for you body to get in the stride of it. It can take a week to use up your glycogen reserves and switch over to burning fat for energy (ketosis).

Soltydog - Thanks, I will be doing a 30 mile commute myself. I'm not trying to beat any records either so I think I'll be OK.


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (12 May 2009)

Yello - You may enjoy some of these articles :-

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/low-carb_index.html


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## Riverman (12 May 2009)

Personally I go cycling so I don't have to diet.


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (12 May 2009)

Riverman - Good for you! Thanks for your invaluable input 

Yello - It's worth a browse on there one day when you have time. Barry Groves knows his stuff


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## fossyant (12 May 2009)

Riverman said:


> Personally I go cycling so I don't have to diet.



Same here. If going a long distance you need a mix of carbs. More riding, the weight will fall off.


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## Rockus (13 May 2009)

Very interesting thread here peeps. So if i understand, you eat fewer crabs to induce you body to burn fat? Right Right?


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## Marin Maniac (13 May 2009)

I tried Atkins once. Bought lots of meats, salad and veg. Within three days I felt the worst I have ever felt _(vodka/sambuka induced not included)_, this was before my cycling days. I couldn't imagine going on a ride without a sufficient carb intake before.

I very rarely eat high carb/quick release carb food, mainly complex carb foods and lots of protein. I wouldn't say I was a particularly lightweight build and have always been fairly heavy set _(but not fat)_. What I have found is that with the combination of eating properly _(Sundays are eat anything day)_ the layer of fat that I have always carried seems to be disappearing slowly.

I think I have at last found a physical activity that I enjoy doing and can see myself still doing it when I'm old and crusty.


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## yello (13 May 2009)

Rockus said:


> So if i understand, you eat fewer *crabs* to induce you body to burn fat? Right Right?



As much seafood as you like! 

But, basically, yes. Crudely speaking, my reading of it is that all carbs are sugar/glucose and cause insulin production. Fewer carbs means less insulin. Insulin is used in converting the glucose into glycogen. Glycogen fuels the body and it's stored in the liver and muscles. But there's only so much glycogen that your body can store so the excess glucose is stored as fat. 

By not producing insulin, you're not asking your body to store glucose. And fat does not cause insulin production so, somewhat ironically, fat is not stored as body fat!

There is an initial period where you can 'carb starve' your body to begin with - and so force it to burn off excess fat, i.e. loose weight, because there is little stored glcogen - but I really don't like the sound of that. 

I'm still reading into it and so find it interesting. Whether I go that way or not, I simply don't know at this stage... the jury is still out


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

Marin Maniac said:


> I tried Atkins once. Bought lots of meats, salad and veg. Within three days I felt the worst I have ever felt _(vodka/sambuka induced not included)_, this was before my cycling days. I couldn't imagine going on a ride without a sufficient carb intake before.



After 3 days, you glycogen is running out, but you haven't gone into ketosis. Hence your cells / muscles have no fuel. This is why you felt bad. It's knows as induction 'flu', Basically you have to go cold turkey to wean yourself off glucose. If you had stuck with it, that would have passed and you would have felt full of energy and had no sense of hunger cravings.


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

A good article on why carbo-loading isn't necessary for athletic performance:-

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/athletic_diet3.html


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## jimboalee (13 May 2009)

Not so much 'Low carb' but carbohydrate counted.

I was on a strict low/no carb diet for about 4 years, within which I rode 200 km Audax at weekends and commuted 35 miles a day.
My experience was that after the initial 'induction flu' with the obligatory banging headache, my energy levels rose and stamina increased.
I hardly ate anything on a 100 km AUK Pop.
Ketostix were regularly deep purple.

Some say it was the 'Caveman' diet or 'Stoneage' diet, or even the 'Carnivore' diet.

I'm no longer on that diet due to a pair of kidney stones from excessive cheese consumption. 

My considered opinion is my 200km performance has deteriorated.


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## Rockus (13 May 2009)

Yello, t'was a Freidian Typo that one mate. Just a thought fellas, you're Brain feeds exclusively on glucose, and its the fuel of choice for your body in times of stress - i'm all for eating right, i.e. cutting down on saturated fats and salt etc. but surely a balanced diet is key. omitting a vital source of energy is not what a hunter gatherer would do in my mind -common sense should prevail here. oh and insulin is produced by the body always; it stops you going into dangerous ketoacidosis and that IS something to worry about. 

Love your body and it will love you back -fu*k the body beautiful


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## yello (13 May 2009)

Is carb the vital source of energy though? The only source? 

Again my understanding is that it is the insulin spikes that the low carb advocates want to avoid. Not the production of insulin per se but the over production. Keeping the body chemistry as stable as possible.

I'm not a nutritionist, nor a body chemist, so I can't have an informed opinion on it all. I just have to keep reading and believing/disbelieving.


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## RabbitFood (13 May 2009)

a test was carried out the other week on Mice, one group did lots of exersise but eat crap food and one group ate good food and no exersise.

the group that exersised lost the most weight.

I think it all depends and what you are cycling for, to get fit or lose weight or both?

As long as your doing lots of miles then eating carbs will not be a problem and anyway you need to be working out 20 mins before the body starts to burn the fat and i think everyone is different, I did low carb diet and was jsut eathing meats and protien and lost 2 stone in 3 months and going to the gym every day and have never been fitter and Iw as doing lots of running during that time.

anyway i love my beer and pasta so i put a bit back on but then you should never weigh yourself look at how your body changes shape.

Rabbit


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## GrumpyGregry (13 May 2009)

Rockus said:


> fu*k the body beautiful


chance would be a fine thing ta dum!


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## Rockus (13 May 2009)

i do keep an open mind on theses things as yourself yello. but fundamentally the body has had many thousands of years to adapt its mechanisms to the lifestyle of the omnivore. A balanced diet free from added salt, saturated fat and excess cholesterol and minus factors that increase free radical production is the way forward.

insulin spikes are natural and not to be feared -they happen after every food because insulin stimulates the body to uptake and store not just carbs but amino acids (as protein) and fats. it also inhibits the body from 'eating' itself. 

If you want to burn fat, eat less fat and cycle further. Im with Riverman and Fossyant


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## I am Spartacus (13 May 2009)

Nothing is as annoying as faddy theories about nutrition.. apart from trying to remember the French colloquial for hitting the wall .... think it begins with f anyone help out?


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> Nothing is as annoying as faddy theories about nutrition..



Faddy theories like low fat you mean? Low carb was seen as the way to lose weight successfully way before low fat was even thought of. Look up the term 'banting'. If you went the doctor to ask how to lose weight pre-1970's, you would have been told to cut out the stodge (bread, potatoes etc).
If you had lived in Great Britain a couple of thousand years ago, tell me what high carb food would have been available to you? A bit of fruit and honey in the autumn to help you to gain body fat ready for the winter!


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## I am Spartacus (13 May 2009)

and your point is...........???????


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

I was just pointing out that low carb is not some faddy modern idea, but actually the natural way we used to eat.


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## I am Spartacus (13 May 2009)

and I find it difficult to fit all my Morrisons donuts in my jersey pockets


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## jimboalee (13 May 2009)

The amount and type of carbohydrate to eat for exercise is a complicated thing.
A good nutritionalist will tell you all about the correlation between heartrate and carb/fat usage; and the glycemic index of the different kinds of carbs. Monosaccharides, polysaccharides etc etc.

There are many Websites dedicated to this subject, but one that impressed me was 

http://www.healthvitaminsguide.com/natural-nutrients/carbohydrates-and-fibre.htm

Particularly emphatic is the tenth paragraph.


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## jimboalee (13 May 2009)

In the future, you will be able to 'pop' a tab to inhibit the signals transmitted to the brain from a nerve in the duodenum.
If you find you are putting on fat, you pop a tab. Losing too much, lay off the tabs.

Today, there is research into cutting the nerve entirely which results in no appetite at all, leading to phenomenal fat loss.

Being cyclists with the need for energy, we would need to be 'force fed' en-route.


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

jimboalee said:


> Particularly emphatic is the tenth paragraph.



Bravo!


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (13 May 2009)

jimboalee said:


> In the future, you will be able to 'pop' a tab to inhibit the signals transmitted to the brain from a nerve in the duodenum.
> If you find you are putting on fat, you pop a tab. Losing too much, lay off the tabs.
> 
> Today, there is research into cutting the nerve entirely which results in no appetite at all, leading to phenomenal fat loss.
> ...



So the big corporations can carry on selling us their cheap to manufacture 'lab' foods and then sell us drugs to lose fat and control the diseases that they caused? Think I'll stick to real foods that grow naturally


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## jimboalee (13 May 2009)

Ohm Sweet Ohm said:


> So the big corporations can carry on selling us their cheap to manufacture 'lab' foods and then sell us drugs to lose fat and control the diseases that they caused? Think I'll stick to real foods that grow naturally



Nope.

The pharmaceutical company makes a killing and McDonalds goes bust.


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## GrumpyGregry (13 May 2009)

Ohm Sweet Ohm said:


> I was just pointing out that low carb is not some faddy modern idea, but actually the natural way we used to eat.



these ancient nature-ist low carb diet troglodytes.... what was their life expectancy?


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## Rockus (13 May 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> and I find it difficult to fit all my Morrisons donuts in my jersey pockets



You need one of these...


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## yello (13 May 2009)

I am Spartacus said:


> the French colloquial for hitting the wall .... think it begins with f anyone help out?



Fringal perhaps? It means something like hunger really, depending on context.

They'll also speak of <la sorcière aux dents vertes> (the witch with green teeth) or <l'homme au marteau> (the man with the hammer). 

The 'evolutionary perspective' hit a number of scientific disciplines a whilst back now (hence me using the phrase in inverted commas) and I find it revitalising. I think a bigger picture can be useful, which is why I'm kind of taken with it in this nutritional debate. 

There is no doubting that the food we eat now is radically different to anything we ate 1000 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 even. The complex carbs are new (speaking in terms of evolution) to us, as is dairy produce. Evolution is a slow, slow process so I can well imagine our systems do not know what to make of some the stuff we eat. And with modern medicines, we are tempering the effects of natural selection. 

Low carbers tell us that there is no high cholesterol, no high blood pressure, no diabetes in other cultures where they still eat a non-western diet. I have no idea if this is true, selective or simply bollocks - but it's an interesting argument. 

So there's a potential irony in gg's statement...



> these ancient nature-ist low carb diet troglodytes.... what was their life expectancy?



So I do see a value in considering a return to a 'hunter-gatherer' diet. What I would like to know though, and where there is an assumption made, is whether the hunter-gatherer did suffer from poor diet. Praps they did get diabetes etc, or perhaps something we don't know get because of our better diet!


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## fido (13 May 2009)

Ohm Sweet Ohm - 

If the article that you linked to is to be believed, can we assume that all world-class athletes are absolutely wasting their time with their pointless, single-minded dedication to intense and all-consuming training regimes when in fact all they need to do is tweak their dietary habits?


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## Rockus (13 May 2009)

personally, i'd like to know who wrote the article and where exactly they got their information from. Not saying its all bollocks but if you say something, it has to stand up to scrutiny or you're just talking in my book -and we know how much thats worth...


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## jimboalee (14 May 2009)

fido said:


> Ohm Sweet Ohm -
> 
> If the article that you linked to is to be believed, can we assume that all world-class athletes are absolutely wasting their time with their pointless, single-minded dedication to intense and all-consuming training regimes when in fact all they need to do is tweak their dietary habits?



The 'world class' athletes of which you speak are merely trying to be better than the last guy.
Then what? A gold medal and a mention on the telly.

There is some natural talent out there. When it appears, the whole world gasps and thinks "how can he do that by eating Frosties for breakfast?"

If it is necessary to follow a 'single-minded dedication to intense and all-consuming training regime', does this mean you ARE wasting your time?


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## bicyclos (14 May 2009)

In my landscaping years I would bulk up over the winter and put weight on {not too much} as I used to burn more energy in the cold weather. From February onwards I would loose it by april as I would just have a piece of fruit and water to eat during the day and for some reason be more energetic. 

I tend to put weight on over winter now because I dont cycle much over this period or do anything really physical other than my job. If you are into the sport of cycling then diet and training etc seems to be an issue of fitness and weight. In my case I ride my bike for pleasure and commuting, cant be bothered racing other people but like to watch other people race 

We are all different in how we consume things, matabolism etc. I cannot stomach these carbo powders,gels and such, I have tried them and they dont work for me. I just govern what goes in my mouth and how much and if it tastes nice scoff it. A bit of everything is good for you, just keep it in the balance.


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## yello (14 May 2009)

...but in answer to your question oso; no, I don't cycle on a low-carb diet. I am however thinking about it. Not immediately since I'm preparing for LEL and I really don't want to go experimenting but maybe for later in the year. I am going to try my next couple of big rides without the usual carbo loading though (making sure I take plenty of fuel for the ride itself), just to see what happens.

I recently read of Laurent Fignon going out for a 300km ride with only a cereal bar... deliberately to meet 'the man with the hammer'. As Jimbo says, you have to go too far sometimes to know just how far you can go.

So try it oso. Try it and see what happens!


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (15 May 2009)

Thank you everyone. It's been an interesting debate and I respect everyone's opinions. No one knows for sure what is the best way to eat, including so called experts. What I do know, is that I feel much better without excessive carbs in my system. I've lost 70lbs since I started eating low carb. My bloods / lipids are now in the healthy range. I achieved this with no hunger or suffering. I would never have managed this with excercise and calorie control as I just don't have that sort of will power. 
My BMI is now 25 rather than 35. I would like to get this down to 22ish but that is probably my own vanity LOL. My weight loss has gradually slowed to virtually nil now, so maybe the cycling will help shift that last bit of chubbiness!

oso


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## jimboalee (15 May 2009)

OSO,

Have a read of this,

http://www.podcuisine.com.au/vagusnerve.html


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## Ohm Sweet Ohm (15 May 2009)

Thanks for the link! I might have a to read it a few more times though to 'fully digest' it 
I think it touches on why low carb works so well for me. Fat satisfies my hunger. If I eat carbs, I'm constantly craving more. Its the old Chinese meal syndrome. Eat high carb and I'm starving again an hour or two later..


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