# Shocking the way the public think of cyclists.



## PaulB (20 Apr 2021)

Now maybe this should be in the news section but to me, it's not the story itself. It's the comments made by those who contribute their feelings about cyclists that's the real eye-opener here. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-shoving-cyclist-electric-bike.html#comments

As I've always maintained, keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. One way of knowing the level of hostility you, as a vulnerable road user - no seat-belt, no secure metal cage around you, no air-bag in the event of a collision - face out there is to understand what they're saying about you and the comments made about the victim in this story above is a graphic illustration of some people's feelings towards us. 

The Heil know full well that the way they portray us gas-guzzling polluting noise machines on troublesome bicycles will reap rich rewards so their usual ploy is to print a story about a cyclist and sit back to let the invective do their job for them.


----------



## Ian H (20 Apr 2021)

It's not 'the public', it's a small sub-section of online readers of the Daily Heil, a few keyboard warriors.


----------



## PaulB (20 Apr 2021)

Ian H said:


> It's not 'the public', it's a small sub-section of online readers of the Daily Heil, a few keyboard warriors.


No, look at the numbers. And I believe it's the most popular of the daily newspapers. This is not 'a few keyboard warriors' at all. This comment 'Cyclists - ALL cyclists are a bloody nuisance and deserve everything they get. They break laws with impunity and think they own the bloody roads and the pavements' getting over 1200 up votes!


----------



## MontyVeda (20 Apr 2021)

PaulB said:


> No, look at the numbers. And I believe it's the most popular of the daily newspapers. This is not 'a few keyboard warriors' at all.


the mail readership isn't 'the public' though.


----------



## fossyant (20 Apr 2021)

There is a small sub-section of keyboard warriors on here too.

Folk behind a keyboard. 

TBH 5 broken ribs and a smashed shoulder is serious. The cyclist should also go for a civil prosecution for injuries.

12 mph isn't fast, it's not much over freewheeling, especially with electric assist.

We don't know but the cyclist could have been too close - I'm assuming given that they assaulted the rider, they knew damn well he was there.


----------



## PaulB (20 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> the mail readership isn't 'the public' though.


No, you're right. We're the public as well so it was wrong to say everyone BUT 'ALL cyclists are a bloody nuisance' is an opinion that got a very high up vote but obviously I can't justify my remark by turning the same rhetoric back on 'the public'.


----------



## AuroraSaab (20 Apr 2021)

I thought it was quite a long sentence, considering that people do worse and aren't jailed at all. Leaving the scene and his wife lying about it probably didn't do him any favours though. 

I've never ridden an electric bike. How do they know he was only doing 12mph?


----------



## MontyVeda (20 Apr 2021)

PaulB said:


> No, you're right. We're the public as well so it was wrong to say everyone BUT 'ALL cyclists are a bloody nuisance' is an opinion that got a very high up vote but obviously I can't justify my remark by turning the same rhetoric back on 'the public'.


a more accurate title would have been '_shocking the way the Mail readership think of cyclists_' 

...but those of us who've read a few comments on any DM article wouldn't have found the comments shocking in the least.


----------



## PaulB (20 Apr 2021)

MontyVeda said:


> a more accurate title would have been '_shocking the way the Mail readership think of cyclists_'
> 
> ...but those of us who've read a few comments on any DM article wouldn't have found the comments shocking in the least.


It's there now though and although I've tried, I can't change it. I always read the Heil to see what the opinion of their 'readers' are but this one was just too much. Real victim blaming at it's very worst.


----------



## Baldy (20 Apr 2021)

The answer is simple, stop reading the heil. That will greatly enhance your life and make you a happier person. It's just contemptuous filth read it and it will infest your mind, stop looking at it.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (20 Apr 2021)

Indeed why repeatedly read something that upsets you?


----------



## PaulB (20 Apr 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Indeed why repeatedly read something that upsets you?


Because to be forewarned is to be forearmed. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer.


----------



## Randomnerd (20 Apr 2021)

I‘ve stopped torching off my pubes with a 900 degree propane flame, and the relief is palpable. There is a lesson in there somewhere...


----------



## sheddy (20 Apr 2021)

Well the Daily Hate is actually hateful.


----------



## Drago (20 Apr 2021)

I've a sneaky feeling that a lot of the Mail comments are journo's, staff and family members who are paid a few shekels to stir the pot.


----------



## sheddy (20 Apr 2021)

Can someone post a non-Wail story link ?


----------



## classic33 (20 Apr 2021)

sheddy said:


> Can someone post a non-Wail story link ?


https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/angry-dog-walker-jailed-after-20424016


----------



## Accy cyclist (21 Apr 2021)

Ian H said:


> It's not 'the public', it's a small sub-section of online readers of the Daily Heil, a few keyboard warriors.


I read what you refer to as the Daily Heil. The reports probably are more anti cyclist than pro cyclist,but they tend to focus on the types of 'cyclists' i'm against too. Have a look at the comments section when there's a report about 'bad cycling/cyclists'. Many comments defend responsible cyclists,posting about the difference between good and bad.


----------



## lazybloke (21 Apr 2021)

Yeah, the mail like to portray everyone as being victimised by lawless cyclists. The headlines promote conflict, and the comments are full of hatred, yet in all my time riding in pedestrianised areas, shared paths, towpaths, parks and squares I've never had any hint of aggro from peds. Maybe I've just been very lucky or maybe it's because I slow down in shared spaces and give other people some space/respect/courtesy.

I treat the newspapers as caricatures & fiction.


----------



## Profpointy (21 Apr 2021)

One thing with reading their website, is that you are literally giving them money. It's not a stretch to say that this is funding calls to murder cyclists.


----------



## Arrowfoot (21 Apr 2021)

Baldy said:


> The answer is simple, stop reading the heil. That will greatly enhance your life and make you a happier person. It's just contemptuous filth read it and it will infest your mind, stop looking at it.


I read the online version to grasp what the dark side of society can do and I mean the paper. It is not journalism by any measure.I am surprised there are people prepared to work for it. It also shows what some people think about others which other papers avoid reporting for PC reasons.

They target vulnerable people to share their thoughts and what they do. Many of them do not even realise they are being ridiculed by the readership as a result of the exposure. I also sense that they find the female gender in particular an easy target by complimenting them on print but these are clearly back handed compliments.

The fact that it has the highest readership or they provide good information more timely on occasions is pure imagination. It's not journalism, just trash. You can get proper news, responsible reporting and factual information each and every time from so many other papers and media companies.


----------



## captain nemo1701 (21 Apr 2021)

Ian H said:


> It's not 'the public', it's a small sub-section of online readers of the Daily Heil, a few keyboard warriors.


 The Bristol Post is just as bad. I just had an online argument with someone on their forum whose opinion is 'all sane people hate cyclists'. These rags do spew out hate propaganda, especially the Daily Fail. It's aimed at the Brexit voting right wing populists (I believe the current terminology is 'gammon'). I see that D list 'actor' Fox, who's standing for London Mayor, has a cliched policy of wanting to 'remove all un-necessary cycle lanes'. So how does an actor decide which cycle lanes are 'necessary'?.


----------



## icowden (21 Apr 2021)

PaulB said:


> Now maybe this should be in the news section but to me, it's not the story itself. It's the comments made by those who contribute their feelings about cyclists that's the real eye-opener here



It shouldn't be. Remember that these are the same people who think "foreigners" should go back to where they come from, that refugees are a blight on society and should drown in their boats and who enjoy stories that being black or gay gives you cancer. The Daily Hate only attracts the best people.


----------



## icowden (21 Apr 2021)

captain nemo1701 said:


> I see that D list 'actor' Fox, who's standing for London Mayor, has a cliched policy of wanting to 'remove all un-necessary cycle lanes'. So how does an actor decide which cycle lanes are 'necessary'?.



That's easy. For him It's all of them!


----------



## icowden (21 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> I also sense that they find the female gender in particular an easy target by complimenting them on print but these are clearly back handed compliments.



I'm not sure that sexualising children and young women in their sidebar of shame, counts as a compliment...


----------



## mjr (21 Apr 2021)

icowden said:


> It shouldn't be. Remember that these are the same people who think "foreigners" should go back to where they come from, [...]


Not all of them, of course. The descendants of Germans that wear crowns are fine. As are those of Huguenots that call for others to go home. Probably many of the readers are descended from Strangers, Orangemen, Burgundians, Angevins, Normans... so they won't have to go "home" either. Really, the ones who need to go home are those with different skin pigments and those who believe in slightly different powerful sky beings.


----------



## Profpointy (21 Apr 2021)

icowden said:


> That's easy. For him It's all of them!



To be fair he may be right on cycle lanes, outside London at least


----------



## mjr (21 Apr 2021)

Profpointy said:


> To be fair he may be right on cycle lanes, outside London at least


Far right on cycle lanes, more like!

Which is sort of confusing: hard cycle lanes are mostly self-enforcing, support the masses in personal liberation (no tracking and monitoring bikes with ANPR) and promote physical health, and it is a classic symbol of traditional Englishness, all stuff that the far right are usually in favour of. Even when it goes a bit too far and strays into segregation, that is not usually something they are afraid of! So what is their problem with cycleways???


----------



## captain nemo1701 (21 Apr 2021)

mjr said:


> Far right on cycle lanes, more like!
> 
> Which is sort of confusing: hard cycle lanes are mostly self-enforcing, support the masses in personal liberation (no tracking and monitoring bikes with ANPR) and promote physical health, and it is a classic symbol of traditional Englishness, all stuff that the far right are usually in favour of. Even when it goes a bit too far and strays into segregation, that is not usually something they are afraid of! So what is their problem with cycleways???


It's the 'cyclists slow me down and prevent me from driving wherever I like, however I like &...as fast as I like' attitude combined with the 'I pay road tax, they don't' misconception.

To paraphrase Richard Burton at the opening of WOTW, 'They look at this Earth cycling space with envious eyes'


----------



## Profpointy (21 Apr 2021)

mjr said:


> Far right on cycle lanes, more like!
> 
> Which is sort of confusing: hard cycle lanes are mostly self-enforcing, support the masses in personal liberation (no tracking and monitoring bikes with ANPR) and promote physical health, and it is a classic symbol of traditional Englishness, all stuff that the far right are usually in favour of. Even when it goes a bit too far and strays into segregation, that is not usually something they are afraid of! So what is their problem with cycleways???



That's an excellent point which hadn't occurred to me. Maybe it's something to do with the (far, and perhaps not-so-far) right's traditional hatred of "the other" whether they be immigrants/different races, gay people, anyone vulnerable who can therefore be bullied. You have to conform, so anyone who's doing something slightly different is the enemy. Quite why cycling is seen as "different" escapes me


----------



## captain nemo1701 (21 Apr 2021)

mjr said:


> Not all of them, of course. The descendants of Germans that wear crowns are fine. As are those of Huguenots that call for others to go home. Probably many of the readers are descended from Strangers, Orangemen, Burgundians, Angevins, Normans... so they won't have to go "home" either. Really, the ones who need to go home are those with different skin pigments and those who believe in slightly different powerful sky beings.


That's a bit harsh there. Many people of different skin pigments don't believe in any sky beings.


----------



## icowden (21 Apr 2021)

captain nemo1701 said:


> It's the 'cyclists slow me down and prevent me from driving wherever I like, however I like &...as fast as I like' attitude combined with the 'I pay road tax, they don't' misconception.



And we can easily identify this type when we are on our bikes. They are the ones (like the gentleman yesterday) who felt that I was going too slowly down a hill (20mph in a 30mph zone) after delaying him hugely going up the hill (by at least 3 seconds) during which time he couldn't overtake but had his bonnet as near to my rear axle as possible). After he did finally close pass me, of course he turned left across me, and got delayed turning in so that I could sail past him, call him a d**khead and continue to enjoy my ride. Shame I didn't have the camera on me.


----------



## swee'pea99 (21 Apr 2021)

Profpointy said:


> Quite why cycling is seen as "different" escapes me


They all think they're superior, hadn't you heard? 

I have to say I'm not the least bit 'shocked' to discover that a fair number of Mail readers are bitter, twisted 'other-haters'; I'm mostly pleasantly surprised by the news that a nasty thug has actually been jailed for his thuggery, tho' his only victim was a cyclist.


----------



## Arrowfoot (21 Apr 2021)

icowden said:


> I'm not sure that sexualising children and young women in their sidebar of shame, counts as a compliment...


Not sure if you read my entire sentence that you quoted. 

"A *backhanded compliment* is any comment that blurs the line between an insult and a *compliment*. These comments are also sometimes known as left-handed *compliments* or stealth insults."


----------



## icowden (21 Apr 2021)

I read it but did not pick up on your nuance


----------



## Jody (21 Apr 2021)

Ian H said:


> It's not 'the public', it's a small sub-section of online readers of the Daily Heil, a few keyboard warriors.



The DM is tame compared to some postings on social media.


----------



## Ming the Merciless (21 Apr 2021)

Arrowfoot said:


> Not sure if you read my entire sentence that you quoted.
> 
> "A *backhanded compliment* is any comment that blurs the line between an insult and a *compliment*. These comments are also sometimes known as left-handed *compliments* or stealth insults."



Now that’s a bit leftist isn’t it?


----------



## Arjimlad (21 Apr 2021)

After seeing some posts on local Facebook pages, I think there is a vocal minority of cycle haters who think everyone agrees with them - but in general, the majority of people don't agree at all - they just don't bother engaging with them. The voices of reason get more likes and the haters seem to club together in their own little self-affirming huddle each trying to outdo the other in the depths of their vitriol.


----------



## captain nemo1701 (21 Apr 2021)

Update: London's 'un-necessary' cycle lanes appear to be safe from marauding foxes:
London Mayoral candidate polling
BTW...is the UKIP candidate really Mr Gammons?


----------



## al78 (21 Apr 2021)

The Daily Mail comments section is mostly populated by extreme right wing idiots who have entrenched extremist opinions, so it is not surprising what they write about cyclists. They will hate anyone who isn't exactly like them, they are best ignored.


----------



## al78 (21 Apr 2021)

classic33 said:


> https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/angry-dog-walker-jailed-after-20424016



Or this:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/company-director-jailed-wife-fined-pushing-cyclist-off-bike-145103433.html

Passing 1-2 meters away at 12 mph is justification for hospitalising someone apparently. I'm inclined to think the cyclist was too close given they were walking a dog (dog walkers are like gas, they consume any space they are in), but I am also inclined to hope that such a person ultimately tries that with someone who is capable of smashing his face in and willing. If dreadful behaviour frequently came with dreadful consequences to the perpetrator, there would be less of it around.


----------



## Profpointy (21 Apr 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> Now that’s a bit leftist isn’t it?


I see what you did there


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Apr 2021)

Drago said:


> I've a sneaky feeling that a lot of the Mail comments are journo's, staff and family members who are paid a few shekels to stir the pot.



Probably not Shekels, given the editorial point of view of the Daily Hate.


----------



## Andy in Germany (21 Apr 2021)

icowden said:


> It shouldn't be. Remember that these are the same people who think "foreigners" should go back to where they come from, that refugees are a blight on society and should drown in their boats and who enjoy stories that being black or gay gives you cancer. The Daily Hate only attracts the best people.



I do wonder if it's just another case of people with a political agenda persuading their followers they're part of a persecuted "in" group and demonising anyone who isn't part of that group*. It's a convenient way of getting people to bunch together against a perceived enemy and following without asking too many awkward questions. 

It just happens that we as cyclists are part of the "other" group in this case.

*_A method currently beloved of populists on both extremes..._


----------



## winjim (21 Apr 2021)

al78 said:


> Or this:
> https://uk.yahoo.com/news/company-director-jailed-wife-fined-pushing-cyclist-off-bike-145103433.html
> 
> Passing 1-2 meters away at 12 mph is justification for hospitalising someone apparently. *I'm inclined to think the cyclist was too close* given they were walking a dog (dog walkers are like gas, they consume any space they are in), but I am also inclined to hope that such a person ultimately tries that with someone who is capable of smashing his face in and willing. *If dreadful behaviour frequently came with dreadful consequences* to the perpetrator, there would be less of it around.


The thing that you hope for literally happened.


----------



## Drago (22 Apr 2021)

winjim said:


> The thing that you hope for literally happened.


...for a change.

A lot of "causing death by" offenders get a lighter punishment, so I'm inclined to keep believing that one swallow doesn't make a summer.


----------



## al78 (22 Apr 2021)

Not just the Daily Mail:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/uk-drivers-want-more-regulation-135022783.html

Roughly translated, it states that most people want to impose regulations on others than belong to a tribe that clashes with their world view.


----------

