# Red light jumping - a confession



## gabefleming (30 Jul 2009)

I realise this has been discussed to death on here so apologies, but I jump red lights in London. Never at a junction, and never where there is any hint danger to myself or anyone else. But if there a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and no pedestrians anywhere near, and the road ahead is completely empty, then I can't help myself. Am I evil?


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## skwerl (30 Jul 2009)

if there a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and no pedestrians anywhere near, and the road ahead is completely empty, then can I drive through in my car?


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

How much time do you save, on average?


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## Jake (30 Jul 2009)

yes skwerl


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## fossyant (30 Jul 2009)

I wouldn't - you are being lazy. It sets a bad example, motorists see you, other folk see you..... "ah another bloody cyclist".

Treat it as interval training. Stop, start off you go.


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## marinyork (30 Jul 2009)

Naughty boy. Not for actually RLJing, starting a thread on it, that's much worse...


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## Arch (30 Jul 2009)

gabefleming said:


> I realise this has been discussed to death on here so apologies, but I jump red lights in London. Never at a junction, and never where there is any hint danger to myself or anyone else. But if there a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and no pedestrians anywhere near, and the road ahead is completely empty, then I can't help myself. Am I evil?



Not evil. Just wrong.

If time is so precious that a few seconds matters (and that's all you'll ever have at a ped crossing), then maybe you need to set off earlier....


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## fossyant (30 Jul 2009)

Arch said:


> If time is so precious......



Just needs to ride faster/harder..... All the RLJ'ers I see are slow...seriously slow.... suppose they must get a bit hissed off the number of times I keep passing them, then have the cheek to stop in their way....


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## gabefleming (30 Jul 2009)

Point(s) taken. I will try to fight the urge. Try, but not necessarily succeed


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## Will1985 (30 Jul 2009)

Maybe if you justify it by saying that you have Look pedals, can't trackstand, and due to the absence of an ASL you feel under pressure from the cars behind while you attempt to clip back in?

I sometimes go through if the crossing has been cleared and feel that the red is taking far too long - I'm normally trackstanding but the couple of seconds before the cars buzz past can be quite useful. Never gone through at speed...I'll have slowed to a crawl or paused before I consider it.

If you think about it, an empty pedestrian crossing probably signifies an RLJing pedestrian who has walked across during a gap in the traffic.


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

fossyant said:


> Just needs to ride faster/harder..... All the RLJ'ers I see are slow...seriously slow.... suppose they must get a bit hissed off the number of times I keep passing them, then have the cheek to stop in their way....



Im slow but I still overtake rljokers more than once.if the lights are at red i tend to slacken off and poodle up to them.im never really in so much of a hurry to jump reds not that i jumped them anyway.


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## thomas (30 Jul 2009)

Hardly the end of the world. I have at times done that, but don't make a habit of it. Usually if it's late at night, no one around....quick check for the police . If it was just on the way to work/for a day ride I'd set a good example and just use it as an excuse to have a drink/rearrange myself


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

Your post sums it up thomas.People dont give a to55 thats why they cycledrive without due care and regard for anyone else.


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I got a fine for running a red light somewhere between edgware > barnet, cant remember if they carry points or not but red lights are not worth running if you can avoid it because lots have cameras now.




Ah, blazed is back. So it's not just 9 points then, but fines for running red lights! LOL! You really are building up quite a persona aren't you!


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

Wait a minute! I just replied to a post by blazed and when I go back to the thread it has gone! It seems I have preserved the post by replying!


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> Ah, blazed is back. So it's not just 9 points then, but fines for running red lights! LOL! You really are building up quite a persona aren't you!



I deleted that post because i realized he was talking about cycling i forgot this isnt a car forum. But that is not a persona, if you really wanted i could scan my license and any number of fines (id guess i have well over £2,000 in fines this year).

In fact i have a £150 one from farringdon sitting in front of me right now, but im a gangsta like that.


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I deleted that post because i realized he was talking about cycling i forgot this isnt a car forum. But that is not a persona, if you really wanted i could scan my license and any number of fines (id guess i have well over £2,000 in fines this year).



If you feel the need, feel free. I'm interested to try and understand someone who wants to boast about the amount of fines he has and the amount of points on his licence. You are exactly the sort of person on the roads that need to be 're-educated' to make our roads safer.....IMO.


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I deleted that post because i realized he was talking about cycling* i forgot this isnt a car forum*. But that is not a persona, if you really wanted i could scan my license and any number of fines (id guess i have well over £2,000 in fines this year).
> 
> In fact i have a £150 one from farringdon sitting in front of me right now, but im a gangsta like that.



Ah! The reason for the LBS thread is becoming clearer.


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## fossyant (30 Jul 2009)

Could have had a nice bike for £2k


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## Wigsie (30 Jul 2009)

Will1985 said:


> Maybe if you justify it by saying that you have Look pedals, can't trackstand, and due to the absence of an ASL you feel under pressure from the cars behind while you attempt to clip back in?



Sounds like me! don't ride in many cycle friendly towns so never seen an ASL... Still I wait at reds and just irritate drivers as I move off trying to clip back in!


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

magnatom said:


> If you feel the need, feel free. I'm interested to try and understand someone who wants to boast about the amount of fines he has and the amount of points on his licence. You are exactly the sort of person on the roads that need to be 're-educated' to make our roads safer.....IMO.



I have made maybe two posts about my points, hardly boasting. I said that in defense of you saying i am developing a persona. You are calling me a liar so by scanning them it would prove otherwise. Im not boasting about my points, people like me dont need to boast about anything especially not that.


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## Origamist (30 Jul 2009)

When are you back to school blazed? Are you prepared for the jump from infants to juniors?


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

Ah well. If, as you say you do, you have 9 points (in 5 years) and you are in fact old enough to have a licence, then at least we can be safe in the knowledge that a future ban is just a formality and the roads will be just that little bit safer.

In fact, that might explain the recent interest in cycling!


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

Origamist said:


> When are you back to school blazed? Are you prepared for the jump from infants to juniors?




Bah! You beat me to it.

It's funny how we seem to get more trolls in the summer months!


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

Origamist said:


> When are you back to school blazed? Are you prepared for the jump from infants to juniors?



I wouldnt be surprised if they want me back at school to give speeches of encouragement to the kids. Show them what you can become if you put you rmind to it that sort of thing.



magnatom said:


> Ah well. If, as you say you do, you have 9 points (in 5 years) and you are in fact old enough to have a licence, then at least we can be safe in the knowledge that a future ban is just a formality and the roads will be just that little bit safer.
> 
> In fact, that might explain the recent interest in cycling!



I cycle because of constant shin problems stopped me running, cycling is actually pretty enjoyable i wish i got into it sooner. I am a true piranha on the road and hit higher speeds than most cars which is probably why i dont run into any problems because i dont get in everybodys way.


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I wouldnt be surprised if they want me back at school to give speeches of encouragement to the kids.* Show them what you can become if you put you rmind to it*, that sort of thing.



A petrol-intoxicated troll? Inspiring.


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## gaz (30 Jul 2009)

I jump them as well.
I get so fed up, I easily cycle through over 100 traffic lights on the way to work. if it's one of those day's where nearly every single one is red, i'm going to jump the ones that aren't controlling traffic on a junction.

In fact the other day, i jumped one... stragiht away behind me i hear sirens, turn around and it's an unmarked police car... luckily it wasn't stopping me and had someone to catch.

Jumping lights is hardly the crime of the century. and i'm sure if you put the drivers from the cars and made them cycle over 140miles a week through london and i bet they would jump a few.


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## Jake (30 Jul 2009)




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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

theclaud said:


> A petrol-intoxicated troll? Inspiring.


Im not a troll everything i have said is fact or my own opinion. Just because it is different to yours there are still lots of people who have the same opinions. Trolls just go around disagreeing with everybody whether they believe what they are saying or not.


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Im not a troll everything i have said is fact or my own opinion. Just because it is different to yours there are still lots of people who have the same opinions. Trolls just go around disagreeing with everybody whether they believe what they are saying or not.



Bollocks. You're gratuitously slagging off independent bike shops, shamelessly promoting a massive car-parts-and-accessories retailer, and not even noticing that you're on a cycling forum. You are right about David Cameron, but that's hardly a challenge.


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

theclaud said:


> Bollocks. You're gratuitously slagging off independent bike shops, shamelessly promoting a massive car-parts-and-accessories retailer, and not even noticing that you're on a cycling forum. You are right about David Cameron, but that's hardly a challenge.



You have a quote of someone you like in your signature, so do i. What is the problem in that. I dont like LBS from experience, how many people here slag of halfords, many of which have never even bought a bike from there. Yes i forgot for one second and read the OP's post as if he had been driving but deleted my post, if i was trolling i wouldnt have deleted it.


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## skwerl (30 Jul 2009)

theclaud said:


> A petrol-intoxicated troll? Inspiring.



I think he's a delivery driver for Halfords


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

skwerl said:


> I think he's a delivery driver for Halfords


If you must know im a webmaster, i run adult websites. Or at least i did until i sold them out and currently have been taking it easy for probably the last 6 months.


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> You have a quote of someone you like in your signature, so do i. *What is the problem in that*. I dont like LBS from experience, how many people here slag of halfords, many of which have never even bought a bike from there. Yes i forgot for one second and read the OP's post as if he had been driving but deleted my post, if i was trolling i wouldnt have deleted it.



Have whatever you like in your signature, but expect people to draw conclusions from it. Like Crackle, I couldn't quite believe yours was for real, so I assumed it was ironic until I read your recent thread. If you didn't like a particular independent bike shop, it's no reflection on the others - why slag them off unless you have an unworthy agenda? Perhaps, as Mickle insinuates, you were just a difficult customer...


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> If you must know im a webmaster, i run adult websites. Or at least i did until i sold them out and currently have been taking it easy for probably the last 6 months.



Brilliant! A pornographer as well. This just gets better.


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

theclaud said:


> Brilliant! A pornographer as well. This just gets better.


Again that is a fact which i can prove, so far i havent told one lie or trolled once on this forum. I am just a new member being given a hard time which says a lot more about everyone else.


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## Tynan (30 Jul 2009)

for me trolls are those that hijack threads and make them about themselves, hence not feeding the trolls

as for reds, I used to jump anything that wasn't dangerous when younger, that's most of them in London, I din;t anymore because I realised that it's the main reason that self-gratification artist drivers use to justify treating cyclists like second class road users, it might even actually cause them to treat them as second class road users


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## Jake (30 Jul 2009)

What sites did you run?


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## theclaud (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Again that is a fact which i can prove, so far i havent told one lie or trolled once on this forum. I am just a new member being given a hard time which says a lot more about everyone else.



Not disbelieving - just unimpressed. There must be plenty of car/porn sites that would be more sympathetic...


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## Origamist (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I cycle because of constant shin problems stopped me running, cycling is actually pretty enjoyable i wish i got into it sooner. I am a true piranha on the road and hit higher speeds than most cars which is probably why i dont run into any problems because i dont get in everybodys way.



I'm glad you're cycling, but why do you keep comparing yourself to a piranha - surely a tadpole is closer to the mark?


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## Landslide (30 Jul 2009)

Origamist said:


> I'm glad your cycling, but why do you keep comparing yourself to a piranha - surely a tadpole is closer to the mark?



Suddenly, everything becomes clear...


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## Origamist (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Again that is a fact which i can prove, so far i havent told one lie or trolled once on this forum. I am just a new member being given a hard time which says a lot more about everyone else.



You were given a hard time on the cyclist/HGV video thread as you repeatedly talked nonsense.


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## Crackle (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> I wouldnt be surprised if they want me back at school to give speeches of encouragement to the kids. Show them what you can become if you put you rmind to it that sort of thing.





blazed said:


> If you must know im a webmaster, i run adult websites.



I'm willing to bet they wouldn't actually.

You're getting a hard time because you post in an inflammatory way. You also seem unaware of the tone of this forum and don't seem to have made the effort to tune in. Lots of people have noted this, this combined with a level of ignorance on cycling matters and a general wish to argue with people who are trying to give the benefit of their experience and knowledge has definetly marked you out.

If you do cycle and I believe you do, you might want to listen to the advice given. You also might want to leave some of the coarser side of your nature behind and try posting in a constructive way.


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## Arch (30 Jul 2009)

Will1985 said:


> If you think about it, an empty pedestrian crossing probably signifies an RLJing pedestrian who has walked across during a gap in the traffic.



Which is, of course, not illegal. Whereas crossing a red on a bike is.


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

Crackle said:


> I'm willing to bet they wouldn't actually.
> 
> You're getting a hard time because you post in an inflammatory way. You also seem unaware of the tone of this forum and don't seem to have made the effort to tune in. Lots of people have noted this, this combined with a level of ignorance on cycling matters and a general wish to argue with people who are trying to give the benefit of their experience and knowledge has definetly marked you out.
> 
> If you do cycle and I believe you do, you might want to listen to the advice given. You also might want to leave some of the coarser side of your nature behind and try posting in a constructive way.



Yes maybe i have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Although i still believe somewhat this forum should change for me rather than me change to suit it. But maybe i will try your way.


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## Crackle (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Yes maybe i have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Although *i still believe somewhat this forum should change for me rather than me change to suit it*. But maybe i will try your way.



See, you are a comedian


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

Origamist said:


> I'm glad you're cycling, but why do you keep comparing yourself to a piranha - surely a tadpole is closer to the mark?



Ive only just bought something capable of tracking average speed and im going for a little ride in a minute, just gonna do around 10 miles but i live in a rural area and theres a lot of hills and dodgey road surfaces. I will see what my average speed is and whether it justifies being known as the piranha on the road.


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## Origamist (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Ive only just bought something capable of tracking average speed and im going for a little ride in a minute, just gonna do around 10 miles but i live in a rural area and theres a lot of hills and dodgey road surfaces. I will see what my average speed is and whether it justifies being known as the piranha on the road.



Enjoy the ride.


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## skwerl (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Ive only just bought something capable of tracking average speed and im going for a little ride in a minute, just gonna do around 10 miles but i live in a rural area and theres a lot of hills and dodgey road surfaces. I will see what my average speed is and whether it justifies being known as the piranha on the road.



we're aiming for you to come in under 24 mins


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## yenrod (30 Jul 2009)

gabefleming said:


> I realise this has been discussed to death on here so apologies, but I jump red lights in London. Never at a junction, and never where there is any hint danger to myself or anyone else. But if there a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and no pedestrians anywhere near, and the road ahead is completely empty, then I can't help myself. Am I evil?



I'd give 50 quid for anyone who hasnt jumped a red at some point or another!!!


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

yenrod said:


> I'd give 50 quid for anyone who hasnt jumped a red at some point or another!!!


I'll accept a cheque.


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## thomas (30 Jul 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> Your post sums it up thomas.People dont give a to55 thats why they cycledrive without due care and regard for anyone else.



In my defence, I wouldn't blatently jump red lights. I have at night, once or twice, gone through red lights at dead crossings (no cars for miles). Going into town the otherday the lights (bikes & buses only) were not changing. It'd of been quicker for me to follow the car route. I was tempted just to red light jump as i could be sitting there forever...btu eneded up being responsible and just walking my bike around the crossing.

If someone wants to go past an empty ped crossing I'm not going to get worked up over it...heck it makes sense that when no one is on it/about to cross you can go.


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## Arch (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Yes maybe i have gotten off on the wrong foot here. *Although i still believe somewhat this forum should change for me rather than me change to suit it.* But maybe i will try your way.



Good god, it's bonj....


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## gabefleming (30 Jul 2009)

thomas said:


> In my defence, I wouldn't blatently jump red lights. I have at night, once or twice, gone through red lights at dead crossings (no cars for miles). Going into town the otherday the lights (bikes & buses only) were not changing. It'd of been quicker for me to follow the car route. I was tempted just to red light jump as i could be sitting there forever...btu eneded up being responsible and just walking my bike around the crossing.
> 
> If someone wants to go past an empty ped crossing I'm not going to get worked up over it...heck it makes sense that when no one is on it/about to cross you can go.


Well said. If it adversely affects anyone, safety-wise, convenience-wise, or otherwise, I wouldn't do it. But if it doesn't, I'll probably continue to do so. Once again this forum comes through with a diverse range of well-informed opinions, and a nutter thrown in for entertainment value. Keep up the good work people!


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

Dayum i burned rubber out there bet most people thought i was on a motorbike.
Started hammering it down like a bitch as well but i plowed through it.


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

gabefleming said:


> Well said. If it adversely affects anyone, safety-wise, convenience-wise, or otherwise, I wouldn't do it. But if it doesn't, I'll probably continue to do so. Once again this forum comes through with a diverse range of well-informed opinions, and a nutter thrown in for entertainment value. Keep up the good work people!




There is the issue of driver/pedestrian perception though. The more cyclist seen to jump red lights, the more people will think of cyclists as mindless idiots etc.

If we are asking for others to keep within the rules, respect us etc, we need to get our own house in order first, IMO.


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## magnatom (30 Jul 2009)

Arch said:


> Good god, it's bonj....




I think you could be right...


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## blazed (30 Jul 2009)

User3143 said:


> Where abouts in Herts?


Do you know Ardeley?


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## summerdays (30 Jul 2009)

I don't jump 99% of lights.... the only time I have is when it won't change for me and no cars around to change it for me (then I have subsequently reported it), and one set of lights which is green to enter the junction as a bike and then on the far side of the junction its red to leave because of a pedestrian crossing (Zetland Road for anyone who knows it). And I wouldn't go through that one if there was a pedestrian on it. I have occasionally waited but I can feel a bit daft waiting on the junction itself for nobody crossing. (Why they don't just make it only red when a pedestrian has actually pressed the button I don't know).


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## Arch (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Do you know Ardeley?



No, Ardeley at all...


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## Jake (30 Jul 2009)

yes, 99% wait. only time i may go through a red is if its a Pelican crossing and there are no peds about. Of course its not through at full belt, rather crossed with caution, and usualy if there are no cars about


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

Lucky I stopped at a traffic light today as the passenger side car door opened in front of me at Stratford and someone got out.


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

thomas said:


> In my defence, I wouldn't blatently jump red lights. I have at night, once or twice, gone through red lights at dead crossings (no cars for miles). Going into town the otherday the lights (bikes & buses only) were not changing. It'd of been quicker for me to follow the car route. I was tempted just to red light jump as i could be sitting there forever...btu eneded up being responsible and just walking my bike around the crossing.
> 
> If someone wants to go past an empty ped crossing I'm not going to get worked up over it...heck it makes sense that when no one is on it/about to cross you can go.



Had some silly old duffer cycling down from Leyton Tube....he already looks stupid cycling in the lowest gear to get over the top of Leyton Tube...the lowest gear possible...then I see him mount the pavement to go thropugh two sets of reds then get back on the road again afterwards...THEN I STILL CATCH THE STUPID OLD DUFFER UP.

I really think at his age he should know better.

Saying that I do believe it's legal to cycle on the pavement in Japan.

*If someone wants to go past an empty ped crossing I'm not going to get worked up over it...heck it makes sense that when no one is on it/about to cross you can go.*

Should that apply to motor vehicles or are we a special case because we can't wait and it suits us?

This thread actually sums up this country though doesn't it...also with my incident at Stratford.TOTAL IGNORANCE.

I didn't get one apology or even an acknowledgement that I was there.

It's normal isn't it.Then when there is an incident nobody will take any responsibility because it wasn't their fault even if they instigated it.

Im glad im going away to get away from this 5h1th0l3 next month.


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## Jake (30 Jul 2009)

i did see, on the way to richmond part one saturday, a guy riding his bike with kid on one of those back seats, go through a red light. Not a good example to set her I thought. but then its down to the argument about safety blah blah.


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

Kids don't know any better do they?

I would have expected that stupid old duffer in Leyton to know better but looks like im wrong.

That's the problem,that sort of behaviour is copied.


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## purplepolly (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> will see what my average speed is and whether it justifies being known as the piranha on the road.


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## purplepolly (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Dayum i burned rubber out there bet most people thought i was on a motorbike.
> Started hammering it down like a bitch as well but i plowed through it.





Is it possible to die from laughing?


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## ComedyPilot (30 Jul 2009)

Why ride up to the lights on red and stop, just ease off earlier, roll up and go when they turn without having to stop or put the feet down.

Simple, innit?


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

ComedyPilot said:


> Why ride up to the lights on red and stop, just ease off earlier, roll up and go when they turn without having to stop or put the feet down.
> 
> Simple, innit?




Aye agreed.Lucky I was doing that tonight as the passenger door opened......


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## thomas (30 Jul 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> Should that apply to motor vehicles or are we a special case because we can't wait and it suits us?



Yes, it should apply equally. And I have seen motor vehicles go through red ped lights when there isn't anyone crossing or any peds near by.

Jumping reds isn't something I do, I might speed up for ambers and only just make it. At night, when the roads are empty I think a lot of junctions you should just be able to proceed through with caution.

Some places have flashing ambers (not uk), meaning, anyone can go across the junction - be careful. It seems silly to wait for a rotation of lights, when the road is empty at 2 in the morning with no one anywhere near by.


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## purplepolly (30 Jul 2009)

thomas said:


> Yes, it should apply equally.



In that case shouldn't they also design road junctions that cater for us all equally?

Today I need to turn right at a crossroads through 3 lanes of fast moving traffic, practically impossible in rush hour when no-one will let you out. So I copied a manouevre that I saw another cyclist do a few weeks ago. I waited by the kerb until the lights went red, waited while the pedestrian crossed over, then went through the lights, swung right, stopped in front of the right hand turn lane and waited there until the lights changed. 

Strictly speaking it's illegal, and yes I never do that in my car, but then there's no need to when I'm driving because other drivers will let me change lane.


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

*Yes, it should apply equally. And I have seen motor vehicles go through red ped lights when there isn't anyone crossing or any peds near by.*

So have I but I have seen worse every day red light jumping by cyclists some of it bloody dangerous to other road users and peds.Yes I know cars do it sometimes.

*Jumping reds isn't something I do, I might speed up for ambers and only just make it. At night, when the roads are empty I think a lot of junctions you should just be able to proceed through with caution.*

Probably best to keep it illegal so when it does go wrong then the blame can't be thrown on the motorist unless of course it is the motorists fault.

What is the hurry?

*Some places have flashing ambers (not uk), meaning, anyone can go across the junction - be careful. It seems silly to wait for a rotation of lights, when the road is empty at 2 in the morning with no one anywhere near by.*

Where is this then?
Never noticed it in Japan/Hong Kong/Bangkok/Spain.
Why is everyone in such a bloody hurry.it's the same story with car drivers.Will do a dangerous overtake to save a few seconds instead of patience which im sure I noticed in Japan and Thailand when I cycled there.


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## jig-sore (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Dayum i burned rubber out there bet most people thought i was on a motorbike.
> Started hammering it down like a bitch as well but i plowed through it.



but.. WHAT WAS YOUR TIME / AVERAGE SPEED ????


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## skwerl (30 Jul 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> *Some places have flashing ambers (not uk), meaning, anyone can go across the junction - be careful. It seems silly to wait for a rotation of lights, when the road is empty at 2 in the morning with no one anywhere near by.*
> 
> Where is this then?



USA. Some minor junctions have the lights turned off when it's quiet and just have single, constantly-flashing amber warning light. I doubt it's to help ped and cyclists though - no such thing over there - it's just to allow traffic to treat the junction like a 4-way stop.


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

Oh I see.


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## Origamist (30 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Dayum i burned rubber out there bet most people thought i was on a motorbike.
> Started hammering it down like a bitch as well but i plowed through it.







http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3523/3772543401_dd95e2a546_o.png


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## thomas (30 Jul 2009)

skwerl said:


> USA. Some minor junctions have the lights turned off when it's quiet and just have single, constantly-flashing amber warning light. I doubt it's to help ped and cyclists though - no such thing over there - it's just to allow traffic to treat the junction like a 4-way stop.



Vietnam too...not that red lights meant stop all the time


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## hackbike 666 (30 Jul 2009)

I find it different out there especially when I cycled in Bangkok.Seems to be more tolerance for cyclists...not some ahole cab driver who's got the hump.I only had one dodgy pass over there by a cabbie ironically.


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## thomas (31 Jul 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> I find it different out there especially when I cycled in Bangkok.Seems to be more tolerance for cyclists...not some ahole cab driver who's got the hump.I only had one dodgy pass over there by a cabbie ironically.




It's a different culture. Certainly in Vietnam, everyone wants to be first, but everyone moves quite gradually so you can easily avoid each other. When I was on the back of a motobike taxi in Hanoi we had a girl cut us up (driver had to push hard on the brakes to stop), but he didn't get himself worked up, just a few words to himself in Vietnamese. Over here he'd of been honking and swearing.


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## joch (31 Jul 2009)

skwerl said:


> if there a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and no pedestrians anywhere near, and the road ahead is completely empty, then can I drive through in my car?




can you kill or seriously injure someone if hit at low speed with a bike? I think there needs to be more common sense in discussions like this!


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

Not really,there needs to be more obeying of the law.


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## thomas (31 Jul 2009)

joch said:


> can you kill or seriously injure someone if hit at low speed with a bike? I think there needs to be more common sense in discussions like this!



Not if there isn't anyone there to hit. Ped crossings should all have sensors so they don't stay red when there isn't a need to be.


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

Cut up quite badly on the ride in by a 53 bus on Blackfriars Bridge just because he couldn't be patient enough to slow down.ffs I wasn't far from the bus stop.I wasn't surprised really as i had looked behind me and I saw this big red thing bearing down on me.Not really the point though is it?
It's part of the London culture of couldn't give a t055.As far as im concerned all this rljing,5h1t driving and mobile phone use are all the same.


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## Jake (31 Jul 2009)

were you using your airhorn thingy? about 10.40 this morning?


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

Jake said:


> were you using your airhorn thingy? about 10.40 this morning?



Double car horn yes.Just to make a point.Thats why I dislike big buses when they are used to bully smaller road users.


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## Jake (31 Jul 2009)

ah right, i was in the other lane going north and heard your horns go, had a glance over and saw a bus infront of you


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

Jake said:


> ah right, i was in the other lane going north and heard your horns go, had a glance over and saw a bus infront of you



Nice to meet you.I was making a mountain out of a molehill.I was going to use London Bridge but a ped distracted me asking for directions to Fenchurch Street. :-)


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## Jake (31 Jul 2009)

likewise. Cant remember what you looked like or what you were wearing though lol. Think it was a road bike and maybe you had some fluorescent jacket?! I did think at the time, the horns sounded a bit out of breath  Always around that kinda area about that time.


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## Jim_Noir (31 Jul 2009)

On my comutte to work, there is one red light I have jumped twice. It's a a boozer called "The stab in" used to be called "The flying bottle". So one Saturday night I am sitting at the lights and I hear *smash* "Lets stab the **** on the bike" loksa round to see no other person on a bike and decide that I have better odds in a me v number 9 bus then me v the neds... so off I go... another time I come up to the boozer on the night of an old firm match, again though the t-bone from the number nine was going to be less painfull


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

Don't blame you for that.


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## campbellab (31 Jul 2009)

I once dawdled through a pelican crossing after the one pedestrian had passed and I had checked there was no-one else passing. I got some verbal abuse from a driver shouting out of his passenger window whilst he was navigating the roundabout afterwards! What was more dangerous? 

Anyway it got me thinking about the types of crossing that can be used. If it was a zebra crossing that situation would have been fine. However, if they put zebra crossings there (outside of a school) then the traffic could be very stop start around school time as pedestrians can cross whenever they want. Whereas with a pelican there is a build up of pedestrians before crossing allowing traffic to flow better.

The pelican lights around this road don't flash yellow at all, follows normal traffic light colours. However if they turned to flashing yellow then you are allowing drivers to use their own judgement as to whether it is safe to proceed. I'd prefer much more like this


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## HLaB (31 Jul 2009)

I must admit, I've started regularly rlj at a supermarket junction. The supermarket get priority (green) most of the time rather than the main road even when the supermarket is shut. The majority of time later in the evening there's no one around and I go through on red, if there is someone round to trigger the lights I wait that few minutes.


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

It's been fun this week. :-S


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## Arch (31 Jul 2009)

joch said:


> can you kill or seriously injure someone if hit at low speed with a bike? I think there needs to be more common sense in discussions like this!



An elderly person with osteoporosis could easily break a hip if knocked down. As could a child with brittle bones - both of these conditons will be invisible to you. What about a pregnant lady, is it ok to knock her over? Anyone could fall and hit their head hard with serious repercussions. I wouldn't fancy anyone riding into me at any speed, knowing how easy it is to take a chunk out of yourself with a pedal or handlebar.

Actually, it shouldn't matter whether you can *seriously* injure someone. A pedestrian has the right to cross the road without risk of cuts and grazes, or even just fear. Elderly and infirm people especially can find even a near miss very frightening - which is why pavement cycling is a no-no too and even on shared paths, you should keep your speed down take care.


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## TheDoctor (31 Jul 2009)

blazed said:


> Yes maybe i have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Although* i still believe somewhat this forum should change for me rather than me change to suit it*. But maybe i will try your way.



No. That's not how it works. If you don't feel able to be friendly (and the tone of your posts suggests that you don't) then maybe this isn't really for you.


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## hackbike 666 (31 Jul 2009)

I agree with arch.I have much more respect for pedestrians since being told off on here.


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## joch (1 Aug 2009)

Arch said:


> An elderly person with osteoporosis could easily break a hip if knocked down. As could a child with brittle bones - both of these conditons will be invisible to you. What about a pregnant lady, is it ok to knock her over? Anyone could fall and hit their head hard with serious repercussions. I wouldn't fancy anyone riding into me at any speed, knowing how easy it is to take a chunk out of yourself with a pedal or handlebar.
> 
> Actually, it shouldn't matter whether you can *seriously* injure someone. A pedestrian has the right to cross the road without risk of cuts and grazes, or even just fear. Elderly and infirm people especially can find even a near miss very frightening - which is why pavement cycling is a no-no too and even on shared paths, you should keep your speed down take care.




just to clarify things, there are different kinds of rljing. first are idiots that don't even slow down at a crossing making peds stop as not to get run over. these cyclist can cause harm to other road users. the other type are people that will wait until peds have left the junction and will set off at walking pace to give themselves a bit of time to get the cleats into the pedal or just to be able to get slightly ahead of the mayham that a changing traffic light in rush hour traffic causes. i practise the latter type frequently, often observed by police and have never been stopped or told off.


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## hackbike 666 (1 Aug 2009)

Yeah everybody else does as well although i never seem to see it.


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## Jake (2 Aug 2009)

*Resul of jumping a red light:*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8180112.stm


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## hackbike 666 (2 Aug 2009)

I saw a car do it this morning on my commute in.Loads of cars at the lights just at the next junction past carpenters road stratford going towards Bow.I believe it was a genuine mistake and not an rlj.She was nattering to a friend so she was distracted.lucky no cars were coming the other way.


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## Jim_Noir (2 Aug 2009)

I drove to work this morning. Sitting at a red lightto turn left, had been there say 2 mins. Along come a car, driver is on the phone and eating some McDs guff, and belts through the red light and swings left! Think they had passed theri test from the Gene Hunt school of driving.


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## scouserinlondon (2 Aug 2009)

I very occasionally RLJ, on the A3 southbound there's a T junction where traffic joins the road from the right, I've occasionally jumped there but it's silly behaviour TBH.

I think about 90% of London cyclists do it though.


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## purplepolly (2 Aug 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> I believe it was a genuine mistake and not an rlj.*She was nattering to a friend* so she was distracted.lucky no cars were coming the other way.



That ain't a mistake, that's driving without due care and attention.


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## thomas (2 Aug 2009)

purplepolly said:


> That ain't a mistake, that's driving without due care and attention.




+1....Hackbike, you've complained about cyclists jumping reds when they've checked and had a look around....but when a car does it, because they've not had a look around and paid attention, it's okay.

Double standard


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## hackbike 666 (2 Aug 2009)

That's called a mistake.When I see cyclists do it it's usually intentional,blatant and sometimes damn right bloody stupid.

Read what I said I think it was a mistake.Not an intentional RLJ.

Call it a distraction if you want because we all can get distracted.


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## joch (2 Aug 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> Yeah everybody else does as well although i never seem to see it.



you live in a different part of town...


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## hackbike 666 (2 Aug 2009)

Funnily enough I cycle from the other side of town to SW2 and I don't see cyclists responsibly jumping lights.More like it's a free for all.


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## joch (2 Aug 2009)

must be the time of day then


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

Doubt if I will see many this morning.You will all be in bed.


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

I was right.Saw more rljing by motons @ temporary lights in Stamford St off of Southwark Bridge.Saw two cyclists on the ride in.One had no lights but was very visible with hi~viz and the other one at Mile End had a green flashhing 3 led light on the front.


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## Jake (3 Aug 2009)

did you read my post from friday?!
link


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

I found the 'put your foot down' a bit upsetting.I suspect i wouldn't be able to catch you either :-)


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## Jake (3 Aug 2009)

lol, i'm not that fast  no headwind that day and a enjoyable piece or road the way you can sweep around the corner and get ahead of the bus stops.


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## smeg (3 Aug 2009)

I often jump the lights but only at a particular right turn/junction due to it being such a stupid system which is at Seaclose approaching Newport (Isle of Wight), this is the right turn towards the hotel (there's a shared cycle path/short cut down there which goes alongside the Quay) if anyone is familiar with the area. The traffic lights for the traffic coming in the opposite direction goes to green before your side I'm sure it does so you end up stuck there in the middle. It's also safer to jump that red light or you're having to turn right into oncoming traffic. Most of the cars seem to jump that light too. There's no sense to it - there should be a green (or flashing amber) right arrow or something when the traffic coming from the opposite direction is on red. It's just as stupid coming back the same route making a left turn at the junction and having to wait at a red light for no reason whatsoever! I'm considering complaining to the council which probably wont do a lot of good they're a load of idiots obviously.


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

In Bangkok they have countdown timers on their lights,it's great.I heard places in America have a different system as well.


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## Jake (3 Aug 2009)

they have count down timers for peds too in Helsinki, i tihnk it was, or was it malaga.


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

Well it's for the cars really.Useful for the boy racers at a guess.


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## smeg (3 Aug 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> In Bangkok they have countdown timers on their lights,it's great.I heard places in America have a different system as well.


That sounds like a good system - safer too - so you know when they're going to change. How many times have lights changed to red just as we're about to go through them and having to make a split second decision whether to hit the brakes or keep going?


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## magnatom (3 Aug 2009)

There are a few sets of lights in Glasgow that have countdown timers as well. When you stand waiting for them, you can almost make out the sound of the Countdown ticker tune being hummed quietly by the pedestrians....de de, de de, bad da doo dowww, booooo!


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## marinyork (3 Aug 2009)

magnatom said:


> There are a few sets of lights in Glasgow that have countdown timers as well. When you stand waiting for them, you can almost make out the sound of the Countdown ticker tune being hummed quietly by the pedestrians....de de, de de, bad da doo dowww, booooo!



This is pointless without pictures, I demand a video!


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

I will add a pic later.They are on the other computer.


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## Dan B (3 Aug 2009)

smeg said:


> That sounds like a good system - safer too - so you know when they're going to change. How many times have lights changed to red just as we're about to go through them and having to make a split second decision whether to hit the brakes or keep going?


Never. I usually find that the amber phase is sufficient clue that the lights are about to go red - there's not really any split-second decision-making involved


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## Jake (3 Aug 2009)

Anyone want a race tonight? no stopping at lights, courier style


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## hackbike 666 (3 Aug 2009)

No.


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## Jake (3 Aug 2009)

lol. too late. Ended up having one with, i think, the guy i was moaning about on friday night. had a bit of a dual which didn't mean much but when I notied out the corner of my eye that he was trying to over take, i put my foot down again. most enjoyable, but left me out of breath lol.

Thought better of trying to race a very nice bike going over blackfriers thogh. TT bike, lovely. lycra clad guy.


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## smeg (3 Aug 2009)

coruskate said:


> Never. I usually find that the amber phase is sufficient clue that the lights are about to go red - there's not really any split-second decision-making involved


Traffic lights go from amber to red a bit too quickly for my liking. Anyhow, when they go to amber the same applies - they're changing so you need to decide whether to stop or keep going. Depends how fast you're going, if you're going slowly it's not an issue.


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## hackbike 666 (4 Aug 2009)

Saw some fat bird at Waterloo this afternoon and as I waited at the lights I watched her on her fixie no brakes,v shrt handlebars (yes I worked out why) sort of stop quickly at ped lights.Saddest thing with fixies now is it has all come the rage or come into fashion if you like.Still perhaps I will be able to pick up a cheap one when people get bored with them.


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## Dan B (4 Aug 2009)

smeg said:


> Traffic lights go from amber to red a bit too quickly for my liking. Anyhow, when they go to amber the same applies - they're changing so you need to decide whether to stop or keep going. Depends how fast you're going, if you're going slowly it's not an issue.


If you're going too fast to stop safely when the lights turn amber, you're almost certainly going fast enough to have cleared the junction by the time they turn red.

I'm really not seeing the problem here. What useful information does a countdown timer give you that the current "lights are going to change soon" indication lacks? Isn't "lights are going to change soon" exactly what you need to know?


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## hackbike 666 (4 Aug 2009)

That's the hotel I stayed at last time and will stay at next month.Click for bigger image.


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## smeg (4 Aug 2009)

coruskate said:


> If you're going too fast to stop safely when the lights turn amber, you're almost certainly going fast enough to have cleared the junction by the time they turn red.
> 
> I'm really not seeing the problem here. What useful information does a countdown timer give you that the current "lights are going to change soon" indication lacks? Isn't "lights are going to change soon" exactly what you need to know?



If you know that the lights are about to change to amber/red you're less likely to speed up and try and get through before they change making it potentially risky, i.e. on my commute there's traffic lights at the bottom of a hill so I can fly down there if I choose to do so. Also, in the town there's one particular set of lights that I don't trust the timing of. I noticed once when I stopped at the lights, there was very little time duration between the light going to red and the traffic from the left (from a blind corner) going to green, if I hadn't have stopped/reacted as quickly I could have been side swiped from the traffic from the left because they wouldn't have seen me. As soon as the lights go to amber they put their foot down despite not being able to see any traffic that may have just missed the lights changing from a blind corner - who waits for the lights to go green like you're supposed to rather than taking off on amber? You can get away with it on a bicycle, by the time you've got back on the pedals it'll be on green anyway.


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## smeg (4 Aug 2009)

hackbike 666 said:


> Click for bigger image.


It's big enough as it is, could be printed off A3 poster size without any loss of detail


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