# How do people do the LEL?



## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

I watched a documentary about people doing the LEL on amazon prime and I just don't know how people do it! People on cycle chat who have done the LEL- how did you prepare and for how long? What was your strategy for completing it during the ride? How did things work with sleep- how many hours were you sleeping and what was your riding schedule like? How was the food situation for you? How many hours at a time were you riding and what was your average speed like? What did you use to navigate it? 😅Sorry if I asked a lot of questions...


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## DCLane (5 Oct 2020)

Everyone's different; some take it steady and sleep at night, only eating at the controls. Others, like me, keep going and hardly sleep eating constantly on the move: I slept less than 5 hours and in some controls hardly stopped. To navigate I used a basic Garmin 200 connected to a power bank with a single track line to follow. It worked fine for PBP and LEL except outside Longtown where I missed the turn to Gretna and went part-way to Eskdalemuir before realising I'd gone wrong. My records here: https://www.strava.com/activities/1116993799

Preparation was a 200/300/400/750 that year with a 600 a year before, although the 750 was far too close to LEL due to work and weather constraints being 2 weeks beforehand rather than the originally planned 8 weeks.

I had a time plan on an A6 clipboard which told me what I had planned originally at each control plus target timings based upon a 96 hour plan - came in 3 hours slower although I did flip-flop around the target times a bit (on PBP I had a 74 hour target but came in at 68). Also using the bag drops going north and south to re-stock batteries, change clothes and collect snacks helped. There's always food - whether carried, picked up at a control or bought en route.


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## Tigerbiten (5 Oct 2020)

I've never done a long audex, my knee joints don't let me cycle that far in one go.
But I have done long multi month tours.
If I'm going to tour in the summer, I'll start getting myself fit in january, I'll be half fit when when I set out in April and fully fit halfway through the tour in july.
So you plan to build your fitness up to it over roughly 6 month or more.

With sleeping you learn what your body can cope with.
Working two jobs, I found I could just get by with only 5 hours sleep a night.
So on a long audax the faster you go then the more energy you expend but the longer you have to stop.
So you set off with a plan to balance the two.
If I cycle for X hours covering Y miles then that will let me power nap for Z hours.
How well that plan works depend on thing like the weather, mechanicals, pain, .........
You also learn by trial and error, if you fall asleep while cycling then you're pushed on for to long ........ 

Luck ............


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## Ajax Bay (5 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> How did you prepare and for how long? What was your strategy for completing it during the ride? How did things work with sleep- how many hours were you sleeping and what was your riding schedule like? How was the food situation for you? How many hours at a time were you riding and what was your average speed like? What did you use to navigate it?



*Prep*: Rides in the March-July months before: 200s, 300, 400, 600 (BCM), Mille Pennines and a 200 a few weeks before. 6243km in 2017, before the start, and average length of ride Jan-Jul 2017 = 151km (41 rides recorded).
*Strategy*: Ride 310km a day and finish off last day with 180km. Booked Travelodge bed near Hull for first night (to avoid control/gym congestion which had been a reported 'challenge' in 2013) - I booked this in mid-Jan, as soon as I had got an entry. Aim for 100 hour finish though starting in 117 hour start slot.
*Sleep*: Planned 5 hours a night and achieved that nights 1 (Hull) and 2 (Moffat). Had 6 at Alston (YH bed) on night 3 and 6 at Louth.
*Food*: The superb choices of food - I was well ahead of the 'bulge' - meant I probably ate more than I ought (ie I mean I ate at every control, not that I ate double helpings). Did wish that breakfasty stuff had been available at Moffat but was told that the chef's plan was: breakfast (porridge) started at 5 - up till then stew and potatoes (or whatever) - and he could not be persuaded by the Control controller that long distance riders might be looking to break fast at 4 to be away v early. I had stew. Otherwise I carried an on-the-go bag of salted and peppered cashews, combined with raisins, broken cookies and cut-up flapjack bars, with bananas when bought. Replenished this at my bag-drops (Louth and Moffat)
*Speed and hours riding*: Took 106 hours for 1400+km. Maybe 63 hours rolling (start to finish days of 14/17/15/16/17).
*Navigation*: Prepared strip maps (from road atlas sheets) with the intended (and where different the suggested) route highlighted. List of villages/places/towns with kilometerages. Considerable (!!) route preparation in the months beforehand using GoogleSV. Keen people create and e-share accurate routecards for each leg but I carried these rather than use them. Actual ride: View: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/16791658

HTH


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## cougie uk (5 Oct 2020)

I was taken by the guy who took up cycling about 6 months ago and his wife looked to be bossing him round the distance. 

It's a mad event.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Oct 2020)

I rode LEL in 2013 and it was my first big one. I’ve done big ones every year since, and refined things, but I’ll just cover what I did first time round.

I rode an SR series of 200km, 300km, 400km, 600km. My first time riding anything longer than 200km. This was over the period March 2013 to June 2013. These allowed me to hone my equipment , setup, and confidence in night riding. The 600km built confidence of getting back on the bike after a short sleep. July I went to the Alps for a two week walk round some mountain huts. Other than commuting I didn’t ride my bike.

Other than the SR I just did my five days a week commute, which is was 40km daily. Then I’d do one longer ride at weekend but nothing longer than 100km if that.

My strategy was as simple as aiming to have at least 3 hours contingency after each sleep. I didn’t have a detailed set of times and schedules. It’s not necessary. So I’d get to a control, look at how far ahead of the time limit I was, and manage my stopped time to keep on top of it. At each control I’d judge whether I needed to sleep or could make next control before it’d become necessary. I’d keep moving forward as long as I didn’t need sleep. I paid no heed to daylight or darkness I’d be riding until sleep became necessary. I ate at the controls. There was always a range of food and different each control. I’d choose when I got there as you wouldn’t know in advance.

I choose my bag drop locations based on terrain. So I had clothes changes before / after the more remote and hillier terrain of the north.

Overall min speed is 12 km/h. So as long as you keep on top of not stopping too long at controls you are not sleeping at. It all works out. So at a control you should be either eating, filling up water bottles, going to toilet, having a shower, or sleeping. If you are doing anything else consider getting moving again.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Oct 2020)

Past two editions of LEL there has always been a stonking tail wind on day 1 then a stonking headwind in the fens when riders were returning. So always make use of any weather conditions that present themselves.

Stonking tailwind, keep riding, don’t decide to stop early for the night because you’ve made good progress against any plan. Assume you’ll lose time through the fens on your return. So ride north with that in mind.

Stonking headwind , is it due to ease overnight? Are you tired enough to sleep? Sleep early then ride through the night when winds are lighter.


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## DCLane (5 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Stonking headwind , is it due to ease overnight? Are you tired enough to sleep? Sleep early then ride through the night when winds are lighter.



That's exactly what I did: rode through the Wednesday night solo from Louth when everyone else had gone to bed. They got up and I was nearing Essex.


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## PMarkey (5 Oct 2020)

Don't think I can add anything to the above as I did the same for LEL 2013 (I volunteered for 2017) just ride a lot and do a Super Randonneur (200,300,400 and 600 audax ) in the months leading up to it plus general riding also have a look round on the web for any blogs or ride reports on LEL to see if you can pick up any tips from others preparation or training strategy .


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> Everyone's different; some take it steady and sleep at night, only eating at the controls. Others, like me, keep going and hardly sleep eating constantly on the move: I slept less than 5 hours and in some controls hardly stopped. To navigate I used a basic Garmin 200 connected to a power bank with a single track line to follow. It worked fine for PBP and LEL except outside Longtown where I missed the turn to Gretna and went part-way to Eskdalemuir before realising I'd gone wrong. My records here: https://www.strava.com/activities/1116993799
> 
> Preparation was a 200/300/400/750 that year with a 600 a year before, although the 750 was far too close to LEL due to work and weather constraints being 2 weeks beforehand rather than the originally planned 8 weeks.
> 
> I had a time plan on an A6 clipboard which told me what I had planned originally at each control plus target timings based upon a 96 hour plan - came in 3 hours slower although I did flip-flop around the target times a bit (on PBP I had a 74 hour target but came in at 68). Also using the bag drops going north and south to re-stock batteries, change clothes and collect snacks helped. There's always food - whether carried, picked up at a control or bought en route.


How often did you eat when you were riding and what foods? How hard was it for your body to adjust to be able to do those sorts of distances, does it ever get easier? Forgot to ask but did you experience any mechanical problems during and how often would you pump your tyres? How does the bag drop off system work exactly? Do you just send stuff to 2 control points e.g. Spare clothes and it's there waiting for you when you get there?


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

Tigerbiten said:


> I've never done a long audex, my knee joints don't let me cycle that far in one go.
> But I have done long multi month tours.
> If I'm going to tour in the summer, I'll start getting myself fit in january, I'll be half fit when when I set out in April and fully fit halfway through the tour in july.
> So you plan to build your fitness up to it over roughly 6 month or more.
> ...


So I should do those longer audaxes as prep 300km+ to see how my body copes and when it needs to sleep?


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> *Prep*: Rides in the March-July months before: 200s, 300, 400, 600 (BCM), Mille Pennines and a 200 a few weeks before. 6243km in 2017, before the start, and average length of ride Jan-Jul 2017 = 151km (41 rides recorded).
> *Strategy*: Ride 310km a day and finish off last day with 180km. Booked Travelodge bed near Hull for first night (to avoid control/gym congestion which had been a reported 'challenge' in 2013) - I booked this in mid-Jan, as soon as I had got an entry. Aim for 100 hour finish though starting in 117 hour start slot.
> *Sleep*: Planned 5 hours a night and achieved that nights 1 (Hull) and 2 (Moffat). Had 6 at Alston (YH bed) on night 3 and 6 at Louth.
> *Food*: The superb choices of food - I was well ahead of the 'bulge' - meant I probably ate more than I ought (ie I mean I ate at every control, not that I ate double helpings). Did wish that breakfasty stuff had been available at Moffat but was told that the chef's plan was: breakfast (porridge) started at 5 - up till then stew and potatoes (or whatever) - and he could not be persuaded by the Control controller that long distance riders might be looking to break fast at 4 to be away v early. I had stew. Otherwise I carried an on-the-go bag of salted and peppered cashews, combined with raisins, broken cookies and cut-up flapjack bars, with bananas when bought. Replenished this at my bag-drops (Louth and Moffat)
> ...


Your strategy is completely different compared to the other people with your pro sleep attitude  it's good you managed to get 5-6 hours a night. Before your march to July prep what sort of long distances were you used to? Your average speed is quite good with all the accumulated fatigue you probably had from all these rides. So did you use a piece of paper with all the listed places and km? Or did you use any GPS or navigating tool? Did you ride much in the night or did you mostly do the riding in the day and sleep at night? Also when you were riding at what points would you stop for breaks and for how long? How often did you eat?


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## Ajax Bay (5 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> How often did you eat when you were riding and what foods? How hard was it for your body to adjust to be able to do those sorts of distances, does it ever get easier? Forgot to ask but did you experience any mechanical problems during and how often would you pump your tyres? How does the bag drop off system work exactly? Do you just send stuff to 2 control points e.g. Spare clothes and it's there waiting for you when you get there?


*Food*: Ate a meal at every control (except the first), sometimes two (at Moffat - night 2, and Louth - night 4). Range of options offered including for minority diet limiters.
*Training*: What do you mean by 'body adjust to ride long distances'? Get out and ride. Work up to a thousand km a month (in the penultimate month). Can you ride 50 miles? Yes? Then you can ride 100km. etc Need to 'learn' to ride for a few hours in the dark. Need to learn not to faff.
*Mechanical*: No mechanicals for me but various for others, some ride ending (eg 'plastic' seat post snapped off at Thirsk). Brief check of tyres at Edinburgh (breakfast Day 3). I have had a FD gear cable part at 100km into a 600. I adjusted the FD into the middle ring and rode on to a town with a bike shop, bought a cable, fitted it, and rode on. Everyone gets punctures occasionally: tyre removal, checking cause, tube replacement and reinflation takes little time, in the scheme of things.
*Bag drop*: One can choose the locations for two separate bags (supplied, volume about 7 litres) and on registration the day before the start you drop off your bags, labelled with your number. You arrive at the control your bags are at, call at the bag door and give/show your number and the bag is produced. Hand it back in when done. Option to access twice (each) unless you choose Edinburgh). Can have both bags at the same control. No fluids or other dangerous/sharp/breakable stuff. All bags returned to finish by midday(ish) on Day 5 for collection.
*Start time selection*: You haven't asked about start time selection yet!!


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I rode LEL in 2013 and it was my first big one. I’ve done big ones every year since, and refined things, but I’ll just cover what I did first time round.
> 
> I rode an SR series of 200km, 300km, 400km, 600km. My first time riding anything longer than 200km. This was over the period March 2013 to June 2013. These allowed me to hone my equipment , setup, and confidence in night riding. The 600km built confidence of getting back on the bike after a short sleep. July I went to the Alps for a two week walk round some mountain huts. Other than commuting I didn’t ride my bike.
> 
> ...


In what ways is night riding different to riding in the day except darkness being an issue in rural unlit areas?? What were some signs for you that you needed to sleep? And when you went to sleep, did you set an alarm and for how long would you sleep? For how long at most were you cycling in terms of time and distance? How long did it take you to complete it and what was your average speed? What was the food like at the controls, any idea what the vegan options are like? How did your clothes differ based on terrain?


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> *Food*: Ate a meal at every control (except the first), sometimes two (at Moffat - night 2, and Louth - night 4). Range of options offered including for minority diet limiters.
> *Training*: What do you mean by 'body adjust to ride long distances'? Get out and ride. Work up to a thousand km a month (in the penultimate month). Can you ride 50 miles? Yes? Then you can ride 100km. etc Need to 'learn' to ride for a few hours in the dark. Need to learn not to faff.
> *Mechanical*: No mechanicals for me but various for others, some ride ending (eg 'plastic' seat post snapped off at Thirsk). Brief check of tyres at Edinburgh (breakfast Day 3). I have had a FD gear cable part at 100km into a 600. I adjusted the FD into the middle ring and rode on to a town with a bike shop, bought a cable, fitted it, and rode on. Everyone gets punctures occasionally: tyre removal, checking cause, tube replacement and reinflation takes little time, in the scheme of things.
> *Bag drop*: One can choose the locations for two separate bags (supplied, volume about 7 litres) and on registration the day before the start you drop off your bags, labelled with your number. You arrive at the control your bags are at, call at the bag door and give/show your number and the bag is produced. Hand it back in when done. Option to access twice (each) unless you choose Edinburgh). Can have both bags at the same control. No fluids or other dangerous/sharp/breakable stuff. All bags returned to finish by midday(ish) on Day 5 for collection.
> *Start time selection*: You haven't asked about start time selection yet!!


What were the meals like?How often did you eat when you were cycling on your bike? So there is a vegan option at control points?

My record is 107 miles, but at some points that got painful and sat there at the side of the road not knowing if I can go on whilst eating a sandwich.. I can do 110km comfortably but it's after that point where some parts were hard. So wondering if I keep training will I be able to do 200km comfortably at least it becoming less difficult? Or maybe the lack of sleep that day got to me and made riding more difficult after a certain point.

My maintenance abilities are poor and I'm pretty sure I have a reputation for it on this forum now.... But I'm hoping to become better at this stuff. Did you ever re-lube your bike or pump your tyres during the event?

What did you put inside your bags?

So tell me about start time selection


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## oreo_muncher (5 Oct 2020)

PMarkey said:


> Don't think I can add anything to the above as I did the same for LEL 2013 (I volunteered for 2017) just ride a lot and do a Super Randonneur (200,300,400 and 600 audax ) in the months leading up to it plus general riding also have a look round on the web for any blogs or ride reports on LEL to see if you can pick up any tips from others preparation or training strategy .


What was your sleep like? What was your experience like of doing LEL, did you find it hard at times?


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## Ajax Bay (5 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Your average speed is quite good with all the accumulated fatigue you probably had from all these rides. So did you use a piece of paper with all the listed places and km? Or did you use any GPS or navigating tool? Did you ride much in the night or did you mostly do the riding in the day and sleep at night? Also when you were riding at what points would you stop for breaks and for how long? How often did you eat?


How would I have accumulated fatigue from a ride a month before?
GPS/nav? Did you read my comment? I'll paste it here to make it easy for you. My GPS display was heart rate, average speed, speed, distance and cadence. The distance was my navigational help: combined with the list of distance to each place I always knew where I was heading.
"*Navigation*: Prepared strip maps (from road atlas sheets) with the intended (and where different the suggested) route highlighted. List of villages/places/towns with kilometerages. Considerable (!!) route preparation in the months beforehand using GoogleSV. Keen people create and e-share accurate routecards for each leg but I carried these rather than use them."
Schedule: The attached xl worksheet is designed by someone else.
Sunset about 9; sunrise about 5. You work out how many hours I rode in the dark.
Day 1: Start 1145 Hull 0110
Day 2 Hull 0630 Moffat 2322
Day 3 Moffat 0601 Alston 2115
Day 4 Alston 0410 Louth 2100
Day 5 Louth 0530 Finish 2226
I stopped at controls and ate exclusively at controls. No stopping for more than a couple of minutes other than that, except for pint in a (warm) pub on the wet evening of Day 4.
Ask about start time selection again when you've managed to get a start.
You are reiterating questions which I've addressed, to the extent that I am unconvinced you have read the various comments. Just saying.
By the time you've done a 600, you'll know what you want to put in your bags yourself.


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## oreo_muncher (6 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> How would I have accumulated fatigue from a ride a month before?
> GPS/nav? Did you read my comment? I'll paste it here to make it easy for you. My GPS display was heart rate, average speed, speed, distance and cadence. The distance was my navigational help: combined with the list of distance to each place I always knew where I was heading.
> "*Navigation*: Prepared strip maps (from road atlas sheets) with the intended (and where different the suggested) route highlighted. List of villages/places/towns with kilometerages. Considerable (!!) route preparation in the months beforehand using GoogleSV. Keen people create and e-share accurate routecards for each leg but I carried these rather than use them."
> Schedule: The attached xl worksheet is designed by someone else.
> ...


I knew that you said that, I was trying to ask if you used Garmin or anything like that or just relied exclusively on your research from googleSV and knowing town names and distances and having a route card. About 8 hours roughly.


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## Pale Rider (6 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> but was told that the chef's plan was: breakfast (porridge) started at 5 - up till then stew and potatoes (or whatever) - and he could not be persuaded by the Control controller that long distance riders might be looking to break fast at 4 to be away v early.



I volunteered mostly overnight in the kitchen at Barnard Castle in 2013.

What struck me was the riders wanted cereal and more cereal, at all hours of the day and night.

Several riders politely asked me if they could have seconds, which was fair enough because the bowls weren't very big.

We had a gallon milk box dispenser with regular deliveries, but it was insufficient.

It ran out too often, and it couldn't pour the milk fast enough, leading to queues.

We had to make several trips to shops in Barney to panic buy.

We then put a few of the containers on the counter, allowing the riders to fill their bowls from them, which did speed up throughput. 

Hot volunteer gossip at the time related to one of the chefs at a control further south.

Apparently he threw a chefly hissy fit and walked out, which in turn led to some very cranky catering at that control.

As I observed from the complications involved in a simple thing like serving milk, it's not easy running a full service food and drink operation 24 hours a day.


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## oreo_muncher (6 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I volunteered mostly overnight in the kitchen at Barnard Castle in 2013.
> 
> What struck me was the riders wanted cereal and more cereal, at all hours of the day and night.
> 
> ...


How long were the 'shifts' when you volunteered? Were there any benefits to volunteering e. g. Free food? Or were you doing it to guarantee yourself a spot for the LEL 2017?


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## Ajax Bay (6 Oct 2020)

Like @Pale Rider (but differently) I volunteered at Loughton before and after my ride. Barnard Castle was a stand-out control, both going north and south, not just its setting and layout, but the all-round benevolent atmosphere. The downside is the temptation to stay too long each visit.
For me (I am not picky and have a strong digestion with no dietary restrictions/aberrations) the food at every control was fine and more than enough. There were labelled veggie and vegan options but quite rightly pretty limited (after all these people are small minority). I stopped once to buy a snack (at Alston going north) and once at a pub (Rothwell going south). I put weight on during the ride. I probably spent £5 max during the 5 days cycling.
This ride’s character is heavily influenced by the support every rider enjoys from the volunteer-run controls all along the route. The all-in 'included in the entry fee' support makes this ride unlike the other big one (PBP). I experienced nothing but kindness and sociability from all those (many from other nations btw) who’d given their time up to help – I thank each and every one. It was great to chat with volunteers and meet again some who, having set up the start Friday and Saturday, travelled north to work at a control.


oreo_muncher said:


> How long were the 'shifts' when you volunteered? Were there any benefits to volunteering e. g. Free food? Or were you doing it to guarantee yourself a spot for the LEL 2017?


I travelled up early (from Devon) and helped set up the start on Friday, particularly the extensive bike park, and on Saturday my main stint was breaking the back of distributing the clothing from the tent, which gave me hundreds of opportunities to offer a welcome and wish each rider good luck, including a few I knew. Otherwise it was just understanding what was going on, where everything was, stepping in to help out, and being able to answer questions and offer directions to any rider who, seeing a volunteer in a t-shirt, came and asked. Other volunteers had a more structured work pattern. And at controls, after 3 days, some of the volunteers were more tired than the riders.
There were no shifts: I just worked till everything was set up (about 11am to 6pm Friday) and 9am to 6pm Saturday. At the end, after a bit of sleep early Friday morning, I helped clear up at the finish, until late on Friday, leaving once the M25 transformed from car park to orbital road (so about 7am - 7pm). Yes, the food was 'free' (I was serving a bit of it and generally helping the canteen servery work, mind, making sure any things running out were replenished and keeping the tables clear). I gave up a day of work to help on Friday, so at my daily rate (foregone), the food was quite expensive . I slept Friday and Saturday nights in a youth hostel in London (Thameside), chosen as it was just round the corner from the Friday night pub get-together for the ride. After finishing late evening, and a bit of food and a case of beer with others (pre-bought and left in the car - helpers' car park), I slept at the start/finish with many others in the school gym on an airbed (provided). Later with a couple of others I collapsed and rolled all 60+ airbeds and cleared and swept the gym.
Volunteering doesn't get you a start slot on the ride. But it does get one a guaranteed start slot on the next LEL (hopefully 2021).
I occasionally wear the t-shirt provided and having 'volunteer' status allowed one to buy a red LEL cycling top rather than the 'normal' blue one. To be honest that's the main reason I volunteered .


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## Ajax Bay (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> having a route card.


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## PMarkey (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> What was your sleep like? What was your experience like of doing LEL, did you find it hard at times?


My right hand shifter packed in 2km from the start of 2013 LEL which effectively left me riding single speed so it was harder than my expectations as for sleep day one was an hour in a field next to the road at approximately 390 km as the control at Pocklington was jammed to the rafters with people asleep on any flat surface then a couple of hours at Brampton at 550 km and again at Brampton after the return from Edinburgh at 850 km but only managed an hour as again the control was heaving with bodies , I then grabbed a shower and a couple of hours sleep at Market rasen 1150 km and got to Great Easton 1377 km which was the penultimate control with plenty of time to spare so grabbed a final hours sleep then did the last 45 km to the finish . 2017 I volunteered at Brampton and Moffat as I was unable to ride and probably slept less over the course of the event .


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

@oreo_muncher

*In what ways is night riding different to riding in the day except darkness being an issue in rural unlit areas?? *

It is colder, it can approach zero overnight even in summer. There’s a distinct lack of people and traffic. Apart from other bike lights of other riders you can see, you are out there on your own. You can’t visually see your gears so you have to do it on feel (if you have dual control shifting braking), are you in big big or a better gear combination? Is your water low by how much the bottle weighs? It’s harder to put bottles back in cages, get food out of top tubes bags without dropping them. Depending on your lights you might not be able to see road signs. If you get a mechanical do you have a head torch to enable you to see? It gets harder to see pot holes so you may crash through them. If you look at the gps and back up your night vision might be impaired. It’s harder to judge distances. I remember seeing the lights of the Humber bridge going north and it taking ages to get there. You are concentrating much harder and mentally more fatigued

So if you are not in a good place the night can magnify your perceived problems. I don’t have any stats on it, but I wonder how many quit overnight because of the extra mental load. You can’t get distracted from your thoughts overnight.

*What were some signs for you that you needed to sleep? And when you went to sleep, did you set an alarm and for how long would you sleep? *

Making silly mistakes whilst riding, changing up a gear instead of down, turning left instead of right as the GPS is telling me, dropping a water bottle, not being able to do a simple mental maths, being short or out of sorts with any riding companions, finding the need to close my eyes, feeling really lethargic or my riding speed dropping off a cliff when I’m well hydrated and fed.

I remember one night I was getting upset with other riders following me through the lanes. Even though I knew we were all riding LEL and therefore going the same way. I knew I was not thinking straight and that I needed to sleep when I reached the next control.

At controls volunteers would come wake you up. They didn’t want everyone getting woken up every few mins by alarms going off. I generally slept 3-4 hours each night apart from second night, where with stomach problems I slept 7 hours, using up my contingency, to try and recover. It worked.

*For how long at most were you cycling in terms of time and distance?*

Whatever was the longest distance between controls. I think the longest distance was 100km up to the first control at St Ives. We had a stonking tailwind and were fresh and full of excitement at start, plus riding in larger groups of the start. So it took about 3 hours. Generally it was up to 4 hours at most between controls

*How long did it take you and average speed?*

It took me 105 hours , I don’t know average speed, it’s not something I monitor on long rides. In my mental calculations I assume 20 km/h as it makes the mental maths easy.

You should be aware I manage my rides by how far ahead of the time limits I am. As long as I’m not bumping on the time limits I’m fairly relaxed. As I get older I will slow down. But for now I’m fast enough and efficient enough (at controls) to stay ahead of the limits. So I could have done it quicker but for me I am out for a good time, not a good time, if that makes sense.

You just need to be fast enough, and not faff at controls. If you can average 20 km/h on the road that’s enough to make it comfortable (as it can be), with enough time for sleep.


*How did your clothes differ based on terrain?*

South of Yadd Moss the terrain is fairly low level with nothing up high. So I only had fingerless gloves and a short sleeve jersey and lightweight waterproof jacket. At Barnard Castle I picked up a warm thermal base layer, warm gloves, and a beanie for the head. I also picked up some sealskin cycling socks. I carried arm warmers and leg warmers throughout the ride.

*Food and vegan options?*

I’m not vegan so can’t comment on it but I know there were vegan options available at controls.


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## DCLane (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> How often did you eat when you were riding and what foods? How hard was it for your body to adjust to be able to do those sorts of distances, does it ever get easier? Forgot to ask but did you experience any mechanical problems during and how often would you pump your tyres? How does the bag drop off system work exactly? Do you just send stuff to 2 control points e.g. Spare clothes and it's there waiting for you when you get there?



People have answered most of these already. Adjusting takes time; I eat about every 20 minutes and carried flapjacks, malt loaf, gels, bars in a bag which were refilled from my drop bags and even a bowl of lasagne attached to the clipboard at one point. That I don't advise. It was very messy.

Post-2017 operation I've done less distance, although did ride a 600km last year, having moved into track racing which my son does. Training for sub-10 minute racing has massively affected my ability over distance. But I've always intended to volunteer at the next LEL rather than ride.

I pumped the tyres at the start and left them alone. That stops any potential silly mistakes.

Mechanical problems:

1. I hit a massive pothole in heavy rain coming into Edinburgh. The front was all over the place afterwards so I scooted it the 2km to the control. The mechanic at the control went "och ... 16 spoked front wheel ... och .... bad idea ... och ... it'll be kippered". Wheel was fine (just sold on my NeilPryde Nazare having done 2500 miles since!) but the brake had been knocked out of place and the caliper slightly damaged.

2. About 10km before Great Easton I got a flat. Changed the tyre and then sat looking at the pump wondering "I know _what_ this does, but I can't remember _how_ it works". By that stage tiredness was taking over so I wasn't checking the road surface properly, let alone being able to pump a tyre. Got about 20psi in eventually and pumped it at the control with a proper track pump.

3. The brakes weren't great for PBP but I hadn't changed them, primarily because of starting LEL injured. I was intending to stop and volunteer at Barnard Castle with my surgeon's advice not to even start: I was waiting an operation that took place 6 weeks later to basically make my right leg work and re-build my right IT band. That didn't happen due to the wonderful Barnard physio both ways and by the end of LEL I had no rear brakes and only half a working front caliper. Running cheap Tektro brakes had been a bad idea as they'd all bent so they've now been changed for some lovely (and expensive) Velo Orange Grand Cru chrome ones with Swissstop pads which stop brilliantly and add bling.

4. A bottle cage cracked so rattled from about Alston back. Kept me awake so was very useful. Again they've been replaced with Velo Orange chromed cages.

5. The mudguard rattled. But then it'd rattled for a while and also kept me awake. I recently discovered the bolt had worn a larger hole; now fixed with a bigger and proper bolt/nut.

On PBP there were no issues at all, except I rode over glass at one point coming into Brest. Stopped immediately and cleared it from the tyres.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

Pale Rider said:


> I volunteered mostly overnight in the kitchen at Barnard Castle in 2013.
> 
> What struck me was the riders wanted cereal and more cereal, at all hours of the day and night.



The ride does strange things to the appetite , cereal with milk was one thing you could eat no matter what your stomach was up to. I remember wanting breakfast at odd times, or I just want apple crumble with custard and no mains. I never fought the cravings as I took it to be my body telling me what it needed.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

Further commenting on average speed.

If you can average 20 km/h on the road then LEL (2013) route would take 72 hours. The time limit in 2013 was 116 hours 40 mins. So that leaves you 44 hours 40 mins of stopped time. You’ll potentially go through 4 nights. So if you sleep 4 hours a night that leaves 28 hours 40 mins for the rest. That translates to 5 hours 43 mins of stop time other than sleep each day (just under 5 days riding). You’ll cover about 300km a day, and at roughly 60-80km between controls you’ll hit about 4-5 controls per day. If you can keep every control stop other than sleep under an hour you’ll build a bit of contingency. If you are at the slower end then aim for 30 mins stopped (if eating) and expect it to be 45 mins by time you are riding again.

Sounds easy!


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## oreo_muncher (6 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Further commenting on average speed.
> 
> If you can average 20 km/h on the road then LEL (2013) route would take 72 hours. The time limit in 2013 was 116 hours 40 mins. So that leaves you 44 hours 40 mins of stopped time. You’ll potentially go through 4 nights. So if you sleep 4 hours a night that leaves 28 hours 40 mins for the rest. That translates to 7 hours of stop time other than sleep each day. If you can keep every control stop other than sleep under an hour you’ll build a bit of contingency.
> 
> Sounds easy!


I've been considering the 2021 LEL but don't think I'm ready, I don't have the practice and I haven't learnt basics mechanics and there is no guarantee even if I applied for it that my ballot card would get chosen to participate unless I get my Mum or sister to do 3 days of volunteering then I would be guaranteed a space apparently? But a bit annoyed the next one won't be till 2025


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> I've been considering the 2021 LEL but don't think I'm ready, I don't have the practice and I haven't learnt basics mechanics and there is no guarantee even if I applied for it that my ballot card would get chosen to participate unless I get my Mum or sister to do 3 days of volunteering then I would be guaranteed a space apparently? But a bit annoyed the next one won't be till 2025



Then perhaps aim for PBP which next runs in 2023? If LEL is delayed till 2022 then you could be prepare for that. Preparation is pandemic mode is hard if new to longer distances. The usual mentoring not so readily available.

The biggest barrier to riding LEL or PBP is mental belief in yourself. That’s the first step really, having the self confidence to give it a go. There’s a million ways of convincing yourself you are not ready, or it won’t happen. But unless you try, you never know.

Learning basic bike mechanics over the next few months wouldn’t be a bad thing as part of your prep. As well as the actual skills it’ll bolster your confidence on the road.


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## oreo_muncher (6 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Then perhaps aim for PBP which next runs in 2023? If LEL is delayed till 2022 then you could be prepare for that. Preparation is pandemic mode is hard if new to longer distances. The usual mentoring not so readily available.
> 
> The biggest barrier to riding LEL or PBP is mental belief in yourself. That’s the first step really, having the self confidence to give it a go. There’s a million ways of convincing yourself you are not ready, or it won’t happen. But unless you try, you never know.
> 
> Learning basic bike mechanics over the next few months wouldn’t be a bad thing as part of your prep. As well as the actual skills it’ll bolster your confidence on the road.


2023 is a long way off too but think for now I'll just focus on trying to learn bike mechanics and after I do that 117km audax- if all goes to plan, I'll try focus on the 200km audaxes. I don't think my mental belief in myself is great  I'm very confident on London roads because I know if anything happens there is a bike shop nearby but when it comes to cycling in remote areas I get panicky about something going wrong with my bike


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> 2023 is a long way off too but think for now I'll just focus on trying to learn bike mechanics and after I do that 117km audax- if all goes to plan, I'll try focus on the 200km audaxes. I don't think my mental belief in myself is great  I'm very confident on London roads because I know if anything happens there is a bike shop nearby but when it comes to cycling in remote areas I get panicky about something going wrong with my bike



That seems to be something that stops a few woman from cycling or going that but further. Where as men either are mechanically competent , or not mechanically competent, but still confident. The only difference being confidence regardless of skill. I can only imagine it’s an upbringing and societal thing, that leads to this difference in self confidence. Hard to believe in this century. But the evidence is apparent.

There’s one time I couldn’t fix something. My mtn bike chain had broken, whilst in woods, on my commute home. It was very cold, with ice on the ground. It was simply too cold for me to operate the chain splitter tool. So I walked to bike to a pub. Got warm with a pint and rang my wife to see if she could pick me up.

But doing your own maintenance will build a justified confidence in your skills. You’ll also become sympathetic to how your bike is running and mostly avoid mechanicals in the road other than the odd puncture.


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## DCLane (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> 2023 is a long way off too but think for now I'll just focus on trying to learn bike mechanics and after I do that 117km audax- if all goes to plan, I'll try focus on the 200km audaxes. I don't think my mental belief in myself is great  I'm very confident on London roads because I know if anything happens there is a bike shop nearby but when it comes to cycling in remote areas I get panicky about something going wrong with my bike



Expect and intend to learn. If I remember correctly you're a university student? It's no different.

Ten years ago I could just about change a tube. If given 3-4 hours. I couldn't adjust anything and hadn't a clue. There was no way I was going to learn on my new '40th birthday' bike even though it came with an allen key set.

So I picked up a very cheap and old 10 speed bike. About £10 I think, plus a basic toolkit (a BikeMate one), two chains, some tyre levers, a few cheap tubes, a cheap tyre, a couple of budget brake pads, some cable inner/outers and the Haynes book of bicycle maintenance. Then had a go. By the end of a week there were bits everywhere, I'd ruined a chain and a few tubes, cut cables too short/long and threaded badly, learnt that sticking puncture patches on involved a lot of mess and bad words. But I could now repair a bike and much I've done since started there. And I had a 'winter' bike as a result.

The same process applied to learning to build them from scratch. Another cheap £10 frame and a handful of second-hand parts. The result was abysmal as I'd cracked the headtube putting the headset in. Everything else worked though; it went off to a bicycle repair centre and was re-used. But the other 25+ bikes I've built since then have been fine.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Oct 2020)

Oh and I broke a spoke on LEL 13. Loosened brakes and limped 25km into Thirsk control. Didn’t have any spare spokes. Went to the controller and asked about a bike shop. She said we can do better than that. I was led to an area to work on your bike with all the tools you need.

Mechanic was sleeping. I didn’t know this and took a spoke off another rider. He said what do you think you are doing? After explaining I was an idiot. He took pity and gave me a spare spoke. I had no idea what I was doing and had the new spoke going through the valve hole in rim at one point. It took me about 3 hours to fit one spoke. It lasted till finish but I was far from competent. The Christmas after my wife bought me a place on a wheel building course. I haven’t looked back and built all my wheels since. It’s given me a lot more confidence in the wheels and that if something does break I can fix it.

Haven’t said that wheels don’t break all that often so don’t let my story put you off.

We didn’t all start competent knowing how to fix or maintain everything on the bike. The only thing I started with knowing was fixing punctures as I learnt as a young child with spoons for tyre levers.


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## oreo_muncher (6 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> Expect and intend to learn. If I remember correctly you're a university student? It's no different.
> 
> Ten years ago I could just about change a tube. If given 3-4 hours. I couldn't adjust anything and hadn't a clue. There was no way I was going to learn on my new '40th birthday' bike even though it came with an allen key set.
> 
> ...


Where can I buy one of those cheap bikes that I could tinker on? And what mechanical repairs should I practice on it? What tools do I need?


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## DCLane (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Where can I buy one of those cheap bikes that I could tinker on? And what mechanical repairs should I practice on it? What tools do I need?



The information's in my reply about a tool kit. A BikeMate one is fine plus some allen keys. You'll need a tub/tube of grease and some WD40/GT85 spray. And get the Haynes bike maintenance manual.

Learn to change a tyre / tube, repair / replace a chain, replace cables, change brake pads, true a wheel. They're the basic bits of maintenance and will get you out of most problems. Add in lubricating / greasing things plus changing a bottom bracket and you're almost self-sufficient.

For a cheap bike try eBay / Facebook marketplace / Shpock / Gumtree / a bike shop for exchanges. Mine came from a postcard in a shop and an eBay advert. Even a 'wanted' ad on a local Facebook cycle sales group might elicit something; 'cheap bike wanted to learn maintenance on' sort of thing. Using some initiative helps


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## cougie uk (6 Oct 2020)

You're at university ? Notice boards ? Local papers - stuff like that. 

A kit like this would be a good start. 

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-b...YJUTG1OGW8S2xX4nuL-bpYouP_AzOfeBoC-JwQAvD_BwE

You might not need it all but it's probably cheaper than buying separate stuff. 

And buy a track pump. Joe Blow or similar. You won't regret that one.


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## Ajax Bay (6 Oct 2020)

Tool procurement in order (assumes QR axles):
Pump (attached to bike or short enough to carry)
Set of allen keys ) (or simple multi-tool)
Screwdriver cross head, small )
Tyre levers
GT85
Chain oil/lube
Pump, floor
Cable cutters


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## Ajax Bay (6 Oct 2020)

On review I did have a 'mechanical' on LEL 2017: with an hour to go, but I didn't 'mend' it.
From the Great Easton control leaving at 8pm I planned to bang straight down the B184 through Great Dunmow and Chipping Ongar – a fine, fast route choice (as opposed to zig-zaggy back lanes). As it got dark I crabbed across to join the recommended route at Toot Hill, and made to stop at the junction, where I had a clipped-in fall moment, at 0mph. I laughed, wrestled the bike upright, checked the brakes and a group came round the corner. “Going to London?” they asked. “Yes; where have you come from?” I queried. Quick as flash came the answer “London!”. Yeah! Someone still firing on all cylinders, and wheels to follow. Rode this last bit with a stem twisted 10o out and an STI skew-whiff but the body compensates (though a bit disconcerting round fast corners).


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## Poacher (6 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Where can I buy one of those cheap bikes that I could tinker on? And what mechanical repairs should I practice on it? What tools do I need?


Check out https://www.nottinghambikeworks.org.uk/
You can buy a reconditioned bike from them (not the cheapest option, but guaranteed roadworthy), take it apart and rebuild it to your heart's content. In normal times they offer maintenance courses, e.g. https://www.nottinghambikeworks.org...ucation/maintenence-courses/basic-women-only/ but these are currently not available. It looks like you've just missed their latest one-day bike sale (https://www.nottinghambikeworks.org.uk/about-us/covid-19-update/) but there will be another before too long.

I have no connection with this organisation, to my shame

Edit: the Sue Ryder charity shop on Goosegate usually has a selection of functional bikes.


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## Pale Rider (7 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> How long were the 'shifts' when you volunteered? Were there any benefits to volunteering e. g. Free food? Or were you doing it to guarantee yourself a spot for the LEL 2017?



As much food as I could eat, although we were barely able to keep on top of demand so there wasn't much down time.

Shift length is down to the controller.

I think overnights was about 10 hours, although a shortage of volunteers meant the controller - and the rest of us - were grateful for any hands on the pump.

Volunteers were entitled to a guaranteed entry in the next event, not that I took mine up.



Ajax Bay said:


> Barnard Castle was a stand-out control, both going north and south, not just its setting and layout, but the all-round benevolent atmosphere. The downside is the temptation to stay too long each visit.



Very kind.

We - thanks to Phil the Controller - did try to run it in a professional manner.

Some of the other controls had treats such as home made cakes.

We didn't, although demand was that fierce anything less than catering quantities wouldn't have lasted long.

We were warned some of the riders might be a bit grouchy due to being over tired.

I saw no evidence of that, if anything the reverse was true with lots of effusive thanks for simple little things like pointing out where a Garmin could be plugged in.

Some of the riders were reduced to feebleness due to fatigue - @DCLane mentioned struggling to operate a hand pump.

I performed several small tasks for riders which ordinarily they would have done themselves without a second thought.

One disappointing aspect was very few of my fellow volunteers were local.

Phil and his wife came up from Oxford, our chef was from Portsmouth, two or three were from York, which is a hike if not staying over, and so on.

I believe for 2017, LEL head honcho Danial took the decision to pay for a lot more hired help at the controls, mostly in the kitchens and cleaning.

I think again due to tiredness, most of the controls had some very messy toilet incidents - we did.

Danial decided it was bordering on the unreasonable to ask untrained volunteers to get their hands that dirty.

Our controller insisted on leading from the front in that respect, saving us the worst of it.


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## Alien8 (7 Oct 2020)

_How did you prepare and for how long?_

Up to now LEL-2017 has been my one and only audax.

My prep was my usual 170mile/week year-round commute plus from about March of that year a weekend ride of between 100-135miles at avg 18/20mph (plus shorter rides for the earlier part of the year).

Note that I live in the East of England, ie flat, flat, and flatter.

By the start of the event (end of July) I'd done ~8k miles for the year.

No back-to-back rides, no multi-days, no SRs or anything like that.

But prep is a personal thing - it's what's right for you.

_What was your strategy for completing it during the ride?_

I had already decided I'd go full-value, enjoy the scenery, leave with the last group, and maximise daylight riding.

_How did things work with sleep- how many hours were you sleeping and what was your riding schedule like?_

I only managed one reasonable dorm sleep (Barnard Castle north).

The rest of the time I just napped with my face in my dinner plate - well not literally.

North 50:37 total elapsed
South 62:44 total elapsed

About 3.5hours to spare at the finish.

_How was the food situation for you?_

Other than at Louth (north) where the greedy buggers had eaten all the food - fine.

I probably ate more than a needed to recoup the calories.

_How many hours at a time were you riding and what was your average speed like?_

North 28:34 ~15.5mph
South 38:48 ~11.7mph

_What did you use to navigate it?_

Breadcrumb trail on a Garmin Edge200.

Whilst the concept of LEL might seem extreme to you it isn't really if you like endurance events.

Once you start all normality goes out the window and you're just riding, eating, and resting for up to ~5days.

Oh, and being able to cope with UK changeable weather conditions helps.


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## DCLane (7 Oct 2020)

Alien8 said:


> _What was your strategy for completing it during the ride?_
> 
> I had already decided I'd go full-value, enjoy the scenery, leave with the last group, and maximise daylight riding.



A sensible approach, whereas I rode through all 4 nights to get under 100 hours. Scenery? What scenery - north Lincolnshire-Thirsk in the dark, the Devil's Beeftub was climbed at 2am solo in the fog, night over Yad Moss back and night through the Fens.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Oct 2020)

I like night riding but I’ll choose scenery over night given the choice. Returning south in 2013 I hit Brampton just before nightfall. I stopped to eat and realised I’d be crossing Yadd Moss in the dark. I’d crossed Yadd Moss in the dark going north. I looked at my contingency, realised I had enough time to sleep at that moment. So slept till about an hour before sunrise. Got up, had breakfast and rode into the dawn of a new day, taking in the scenery I’d missed northbound.


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## matticus (7 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> So slept till about an hour before sunrise. Got up, had breakfast and rode into the dawn of a new day, taking in the scenery
> 
> ...


Good call. For me that's the best part of multi-day rides. 
(Apart from finishing the bloody things of course!)


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## Ajax Bay (7 Oct 2020)

I crept out of Alston YH at 4, swiped out at the control resisting the attraction of food/drink, rode up the cobbles and out of town towards Yad Moss. Feeling good, the climb went well – I didn’t stop at Drew Buck’s van – an omission, but I was on a mission to get to Barnard Castle and feeling strong. Hit the top of Yad Moss, with its incongruous traffic light controlled contraflow, right on sunrise and wrestled the bike off the road up a hillock to get the best view north-east. A couple went past and I chased after them down the wet roads. A strong German came past through Middleton-in-Teesdale and I jumped on his wheel, attempted to talk but he ‘had his hat on’ and I was close to the limit. After 10km he eased off and I took a turn on the front which lasted till the climb in Barnard Castle, when he powered past. It had taken 150 minutes from Alston to Barnard Castle (arrived 0642) – good progress. After a hearty breakfast I set off for Thirsk.


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## oreo_muncher (8 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> I like night riding but I’ll choose scenery over night given the choice. Returning south in 2013 I hit Brampton just before nightfall. I stopped to eat and realised I’d be crossing Yadd Moss in the dark. I’d crossed Yadd Moss in the dark going north. I looked at my contingency, realised I had enough time to sleep at that moment. So slept till about an hour before sunrise. Got up, had breakfast and rode into the dawn of a new day, taking in the scenery I’d missed northbound.


Why do you like riding in the night?


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Why do you like riding in the night?



It is a very peaceful relaxing time to ride. You get to ride under the full moon lighting up a silvery road or in dark areas where you can fully see the Milky Way or meteor showers if lucky. There are badgers, bats, owls and other night time creatures about. The world is silent apart from the swoosh of your tyres and the creatures of the night. There’s no traffic meaning you can ride mostly lost in your thoughts and be transported into this other world. If you ride through the night you get to experience the coming of sunrise and the dawn. Hills are not so daunting and without vision of how long they are, are tackled at a sensible pace. If you are atop a dark hill you may gaze down upon the lights if a town or city below. It’s just a magical time to be out, whilst others sleep


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## oreo_muncher (8 Oct 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> It is a very peaceful relaxing time to ride. You get to ride under the full moon lighting up a silvery road or in dark areas where you can fully see the Milky Way or meteor showers if lucky. There are badgers, bats, owls and other night time creatures about. The world is silent apart from the swoosh of your tyres and the creatures of the night. There’s no traffic meaning you can ride mostly lost in your thoughts and be transported into this other world. If you ride through the night you get to experience the coming of sunrise and the dawn. Hills are not so daunting and without vision of how long they are, are tackled at a sensible pace. If you are atop a dark hill you may gaze down upon the lights if a town or city below. It’s just a magical time to be out, whilst others sleep


Or you can hit a pothole going downhill and crack your head open... But your version of events sounds better


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## DCLane (8 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Or you can hit a pothole going downhill and crack your head open... But your version of events sounds better



Not with decent lights. It's quieter, potentially slower as you're having check roads ahead a bit more, but generally a better ride imo. Although I tend to ride at night on an event but only locally in the dark when commuting.

On the last night of PBP I came across a Croatian rider whose light had broken and whose Garmin had been stolen (he'd left it on the bike overnight). He was navigating by starlight; I offered to ride with him and we shared my front light for about 8 hours


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Or you can hit a pothole going downhill and crack your head open... But your version of events sounds better



As above good lights and at night you can use the whole width of the road. Pot holes tend to be, though not exclusively towards the edge of the road. So ride towards the centre. If road seems rough then just slow down to a speed you can see and avoid things in the road. Normal riding really, don’t go so fast you can’t taking avoiding again. This means having your lights angled correctly to light up the road ahead and not just 10m in front in your bike. Then look ahead to choose your line, no pothole should be a surprise.


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## Ajax Bay (8 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> you can hit a pothole going downhill


You can hit a pothole going downhill in the daytime too, in fact I assert that it happens far more often than hitting one at night.
Surely a prudent rider like yourself will be 'saved' by the head cover you're wearing, unlike @YukonBoy who relies on skilz, not what he's wearing.


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## oreo_muncher (8 Oct 2020)

DCLane said:


> Not with decent lights. It's quieter, potentially slower as you're having check roads ahead a bit more, but generally a better ride imo. Although I tend to ride at night on an event but only locally in the dark when commuting.
> 
> On the last night of PBP I came across a Croatian rider whose light had broken and whose Garmin had been stolen (he'd left it on the bike overnight). He was navigating by starlight; I offered to ride with him and we shared my front light for about 8 hours


Still don't know if to go for the wahoo or garmin edge 500.


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## oreo_muncher (8 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> You can hit a pothole going downhill in the daytime too, in fact I assert that it happens far more often than hitting one at night.


Why do you think that?


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## Ajax Bay (8 Oct 2020)

Because the vast majority of the time, people cycle in the daylight: maths init.


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## PMarkey (8 Oct 2020)

+1 for decent lights especially for the badgers  I nearly hit one on the trike the other week on the pistyll packin momma 200 as it shot across the lane in front of my wheel


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## Ajax Bay (13 Oct 2020)

oreo_muncher said:


> Why do you like riding in the night?


Not a direct answer to this but @Blue Hills has kindly 'liked' my comment on another thread:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/nightriders.254894/page-2#post-5789850
Riding from Weston-super-Mare to Weymouth (about 100 miles from dusk, the last section of a longer ride) last Friday night was great (though it would have been (even) more fun if it had been a bit warmer (or I'd had 'footwarmers' in my shoes - I did consider taking a pair but decided not to (volume/weight)).


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

Ajax Bay said:


> Not a direct answer to this but @Blue Hills has kindly 'liked' my comment on another thread:
> https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/nightriders.254894/page-2#post-5789850
> Riding from Weston-super-Mare to Weymouth (about 100 miles from dusk, the last section of a longer ride) last Friday night was great (though it would have been (even) more fun if it had been a bit warmer (or I'd had 'footwarmers' in my shoes - I did consider taking a pair but decided not to (volume/weight)).


I can recommend Lidl's sometimes offered (and doubtless by others) thickish warm synthetic black toasty socks - not cycling specific but very handy. Used with a pair of ultra thin otherwise useless summer poncy cycling socks as a liner they are even warmer. Should be able to get them into your normal shoes. They are also good if cycling in the wet - for if it's solid rain the water will inevitably get through overshoes and your shoes somehow.


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## Ajax Bay (13 Oct 2020)

When you're riding through a warm day and a cold night, sock compromises have to be made, to manage both extremes and consequences. I have the option of some Aldi socks (no doubt like the Lidl ones you recommend) or some Merino wool percentage ones (I think 'On-One ?PlanetX'). The space in footwear to accommodate thicker socks is an issue: I have the option of using a pair of shoes one size up if I need to go 'thick'. Having suffered frostbite in several of my toes and frostnip/NFCI in both feet bitd (see avatar), this is an important issue for me.
The footwarmers I use (well not last year or this, yet but bought a box of 10 in 2017) are this sort:





I find they give me about 5 hours warmth, after which they get pulled out and binned.


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## Blue Hills (13 Oct 2020)

What's really needed i suppose is some way of converting all that movement (up to 100rpm) into heat. 
If anyone cracks it, send me 10 per cent of revenue.


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## Pale Rider (13 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> Used with a pair of ultra thin otherwise useless summer poncy cycling socks as a liner they are even warmer.



Agreed - if one won't do, use two.

My warmest sock arrangement has been the simple expedient of putting on two pairs of whatever ordinary socks I had to hand.


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## Ajax Bay (13 Oct 2020)

Blue Hills said:


> converting all that movement . . . into heat.


Keeping pedalling keeps one generally warm, provided the rider has their clothing sorted for the likely wee hours temperatures, but the extremities do not benefit from the heat generated by 80rpm (YMMV) movement.


Pale Rider said:


> the simple expedient of putting on two pairs of . . . socks


This option requires space in the chosen footwear and carriage of a 'spare' pair of socks. Otherwise one's feet may suffer from being cramped, or if space then too warm during day.


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## MickytheHippo (12 May 2021)

did 2013, a cheerful and strong riding/training partner was a big help and support, we did an SR with a few extra rides thrown in plus commuting. We tried overnight riding on a diy 600km and decided we did not like it. So we used an excellent spreadsheet someone supplied on here to plan our days. In short had to be up at 3am to ride at 3:30 odd until about 10pm. The controls were almost all godsends bar the odd bad one, and we scoffed hot food in every one. As someone said then, 'only 4 300ks with a 250 to finish'.

Physically we were fine barring sore knees by the end but mental fatigue did start to get dodgy on the last day, hallucinations etc. This was not helped by some farily crappy weather on the last 24 hours, rain and a shocking hot day with a stern headwind.

As for navigation, we had the routesheets and a gps but there were so many other rider you almost always had a clear sense of the route.

If you're thinking of having a go, do it. any issues with fitness and bike setup will get sorted in the training, not sure I'd have made it solo and saw a few other fellas I knew that were doing it solo looking sorry for themseles on days 3 and 4.


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## Ian H (12 May 2021)

My LEL was back in 1998. About 300km a day (it was 1200km then) and three night's sleep along the route. Navigation was by paper route-sheets. I think I only got lost once — nothing serious.


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