# 2019 Structured training



## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2018)

A thread for 2019 goals and structured training.

Mine is training for PBP 2019 with a peak for my 600 in May then PBP next August. Aim is to lift my average speed from this year and improve the ease with which I complete the longer rides.


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## HLaB (26 Dec 2018)

I hope I have time to commit to my training plan and get back to or better where I was in 2017. Being a wuss I prefer sporting TT courses that are not on busy roads and I would like to get back to a sub 25minutes 10miles.


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## Heltor Chasca (26 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> A thread for 2019 goals and structured training.
> 
> Mine is training for PBP 2019 with a peak for my 600 in May then PBP next August. Aim is to lift my average speed from this year and improve the ease with which I complete the longer rides.



Looking forward to watching your progress. I’ll be shamelessly nicking ideas for my plan to do it in 2023.


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## Andy in Germany (26 Dec 2018)

160k /an imperial century.

Change of job and house move permitting.


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## Milzy (26 Dec 2018)

HLaB said:


> I hope I have time to commit to my training plan and get back to or better where I was in 2017. Being a wuss I prefer sporting TT courses that are not on busy roads and I would like to get back to a sub 25minutes 10miles.


The only way I could do that now would be with a decent TT bike & a flat straight course.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> 160k /an imperial century.
> 
> Change of job and house move permitting.



Good luck training for your first imperial century.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Looking forward to watching your progress. I’ll be shamelessly nicking ideas for my plan to do it in 2023.



I had a good comfortable PBP 2015. I did not need structure then as my daily commute gave an excellent base to everything else. But circumstances have changed since then, so I need to be more focused.


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## ColinJ (26 Dec 2018)

Andy in Germany said:


> 160k /an imperial century.
> 
> Change of job and house move permitting.


Don't forget the other 934 metres!  (100 miles is 160.934 km)


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## Andy in Germany (26 Dec 2018)

ColinJ said:


> Don't forget the other 934 metres!  (100 miles is 160.934 km)



Good job I found out now...


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## Nebulous (27 Dec 2018)

I've already posted on the 2018 training thread, never having done anything structured before I'm on my way through an FTP builder training plan on Zwift. I've signed up to a whole series of Audax events in roughly March to June, with a 200, 300, 400 and 600. If I can complete all of them and get an SR I'll be happy.

At the moment I'm 86kg and my first FTP test came out at 200 watts. I intend to lose 5kg and put on 50 watts by late March which will just tip me over the 3 watts / kg mark. That would bring me into my first events in pretty good shape.

27/1/19- Dropped a kilo to 85. Zwift says my ftp has increased to 222, but I haven't done a proper retest.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

I am currently 80kg and intend to get down to 75kg by May. Lower than that and 
I find my endurance and top end speed disappear.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

So looking at my numbers I should be slightly over 3W/kg for PBP all being well. Might post my W/kg figures after each retest in 2019 if feeling brave.


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## OnTheRopes (29 Dec 2018)

I am the master of comebacks and herein starts another  I had all summer off the bike and started training again in late August so I have a pretty good base in now but officially by my programme (A la Joe Friel0 I am now in Base 2. I intend to race LVRC (I'm an old git) again and have a good go at the Percy Stallard National points series. I am planning on a peak in May and then another in August for the Nationals.
A year ago I bought a TT bike which as yet is still unridden and I may try a few TT's but I need some wheels for it.
I have just bought a Ridley Noah SL frame to build up into an aero RR bike so I am currently motivated and stickingb to my programme.
The only thing I have to watch is I don't over train and burn out, which has happened before but I am trying to stick to a 2 weeks on and 1 week recovery schedule as advised for older athletes, something I have never done before.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Dec 2018)

I’m just under 3W/kg at the mo. I have an FTP test coming up in a couple of weeks. We’ll see what happens.

I’m more interested in at least another year of building my aerobic base so I can sit on a bike all day and the next, and the next, and the next...


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I’m just under 3W/kg at the mo. I have an FTP test coming up in a couple of weeks. We’ll see what happens.
> 
> I’m more interested in at least another year of building my aerobic base so I can sit on a bike all day and the next, and the next, and the next...



FTP test for me tomorrow all being well. Yes don't forget to work on aerobic threshold as well as the higher intensity efforts. A ride of at least two hours once a week will help set up the base to launch from.


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## Heltor Chasca (29 Dec 2018)

Has any TrainerRoad user on here tried this one out yet? Something in me makes me want to give it a go one rainy day.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Has any TrainerRoad user on here tried this one out yet? Something in me makes me want to give it a go one rainy day.
> 
> View attachment 444516



Too many hours on the turbo for me. Anything over an hour and I prefer to go for an outdoor ride.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2018)

FTP test completed today and I am 3.3 watts above where I was at the end of my structured training last April. I am also 40 watts above where I was same time last year. So a good base and steady progress. I am at 2.5W/KG. So if I hit my weight target for May and I can lift the FTP by another 25 watts then I will hit 3W/kg.

So pleased with current fitness given I have been taking it easy since my last 400km ride in September. The targets also feel achievable. Time to review my plan for next year so it is ready to start next week.


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## CXRAndy (30 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Has any TrainerRoad user on here tried this one out yet? Something in me makes me want to give it a go one rainy day.
> 
> View attachment 444516



That duration is for a Pro or an national elite. Most folks will be on their last legs at 2 hours, well I know I am. 
I've done 3.5hrs but in zone 2 Trainer Road workouts.
If your ftp is set correctly you will struggle to complete half that workout


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Dec 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> That duration is for a Pro or an national elite. Most folks will be on their last legs at 2 hours, well I know I am.
> I've done 3.5hrs but in zone 2 Trainer Road workouts.
> If your ftp is set correctly you will struggle to complete half that workout



Red rag. Bull.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Dec 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Red rag. Bull.



China shop


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> China shop



You and @CXRAndy probably know this, but that workout was designed as a charity event for World Disaster Day on 15 December and they have left it on the database for people to have a play. Suicide.


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## HLaB (31 Dec 2018)

HLaB said:


> I hope I have time to commit to my training plan and get back to or better where I was in 2017. Being a wuss I prefer sporting TT courses that are not on busy roads and I would like to get back to a sub 25minutes 10miles.


Reflecting back on my stubbornness (iron deficiency) as its Hogmanay, I started the year at an FTP of 4.1w/kg, I fell to 2.1w/kg and I've recovered to 3.7w/kg with a month of structured turbore training, so hopefully further training if I have time will close that gap.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2018)

Its funny that lighter riders probably use Watts/kg whilst bigger riders use Watts alone . I suppose its to do with each number is greater 

Im currently training to 320ftp level


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2018)

I'm going in to the new year with an FTP of 220 and weight of 106kg giving a ratio of a little over 2W/kg.

My goal for the year is to achieve 3W/kg by dropping my weight to 95kg and increasing FTP to 285W. This should be achievable with a bit of work, I just need to Try and work out what Zwift plan to start with that will allow me to commute daily without knackering myself too much


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## ColinJ (31 Dec 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Its funny that lighter riders probably use Watts/kg whilst bigger riders use Watts alone . I suppose its to do with each number is greater


Maybe it is that lighter riders tend to be better climbers and W/kg is what counts there? A heavier rider concentrating on flatter TTs would be more interested in the Watts value since his/her weight wouldn't be that important?


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2018)

JhnBssll said:


> I'm going in to the new year with an FTP of 220 and weight of 106kg giving a ratio of a little over 2W/kg.
> 
> My goal for the year is to achieve 3W/kg by dropping my weight to 95kg and increasing FTP to 285W. This should be achievable with a bit of work, I just need to Try and work out what Zwift plan to start with that will allow me to commute daily without knackering myself too much



Start by building a base in zone 2 for 8-16weeks. This will tune your aerobic engine to be as efficient as possible. Then move to something like Sweetspot training to further increase aerobic bit with muscular development of power. These can be added with increasing regularity until you feel fatigue creeping in, then drop the odd routine to keep fresh. After try adding HIIT to peak


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2018)

Yep, it is climbing well that I get the most satisfaction so W/kg is what I look at. Outright speed on flatter terrain does not do much for me. When I am climbing well up a big hill, nothing feeels better.


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## JhnBssll (31 Dec 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Start by building a base in zone 2 for 8-16weeks. This will tune your aerobic engine to be as efficient as possible. Then move to something like Sweetspot training to further increase aerobic bit with muscular development of power. These can be added with increasing regularity until you feel fatigue creeping in, then drop the odd routine to keep fresh. After try adding HIIT to peak



So rather than just starting the ftp builder course again I'd be better off combining my commuting with 3 or 4 zone 2 foundation sessions a week until around March? That seems to make sense...


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2018)

JhnBssll said:


> So rather than just starting the ftp builder course again I'd be better off combining my commuting with 3 or 4 zone 2 foundation sessions a week until around March? That seems to make sense...



Do you use a HRM? Cycle in zone 2 hr until you find your HR settles and doesnt get any lower for the same duration exercise. If you do this on the road, you will notice that your speed will be faster for same HR or same speed for lower HR, if you get what I mean?

I found that the first few weeks in September, my HR would slowly climb towards the end of 1.5hr steady state ride. After 8 or so weeks I was upto 3.5hours and my HR was plateau-ing and had a lower average for the whole workout than the early workouts. I used these workouts to work on my cadence by sustained 95-100rpm for the whole workout. This also forces the body to rely on heart/lungs training.
At the end of November I had a cycle holiday in Tenerife, where I found the rides to be easier than ever before, all on tbe back of 3 months of zone 2 training.

Im now still doing base training, but with sweetspot level. My Watts are steadily climbing. I will continue these till March .I will finish this block in January, but will restart the block with slightly higher numbers. I have been adding a few extra Watts every 10 days to keep pushing my limit . At some point I'll hit a ceiling and then will do HIIT to peak for late spring going into summer


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2018)

@Heltor Chasca here you go, an outline of my structured training plan for PBP 2019. Based on a successful but more compressed plan I did to build for a 1000km audax this year. Rest and test periods are in green, booked audax events in orange, and training phases in blue. The transition period is where I stop doing any structured training or measuring anything and chill for a bit. Usually lasts a minimum of 6-8 weeks after my last major event of a year. After the transition phase comes the preperation phase for whatever I am planning for 2020 etc. I then have a seperate document which contains the detail for each of the training phases. Finished putting it together just now.

Only 18 days till I can pay for my entry to PBP 2019.


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## Nebulous (31 Dec 2018)

YukonBoy said:


> @Heltor Chasca here you go, an outline of my structured training plan for PBP 2019. Based on a successful but more compressed plan I did to build for a 1000km audax this year. Rest and test periods are in green, booked audax events in orange, and training phases in blue. The transition period is where I stop doing any structured training or measuring anything and chill for a bit. Usually lasts a minimum of 6-8 weeks after my last major event of a year. After the transition phase comes the preperation phase for whatever I am planning for 2020 etc. I then have a seperate document which contains the detail for each of the training phases. Finished putting it together just now.
> 
> Only 18 days till I can pay for my entry to PBP 2019.
> 
> View attachment 444907



That looks good - I wish my life was that structured. I'm doing a full set of PBP qualifiers, but not PBP. I don't have a qualifying BRM event from last year, so don't have any ability to pre-qualify.


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## HLaB (31 Dec 2018)

CXRAndy said:


> Its funny that lighter riders probably use Watts/kg whilst bigger riders use Watts alone . I suppose its to do with each number is greater
> 
> Im currently training to 320ftp level


I think realists use W/kg as that is a good comparator for all folks regardless of their weight. Sorry if teaching you to suck eggs but you can have an FTP of 300+w but if your too heavy it will drag and compare to a lighter rider with an FTP of only 255w (but the same W/kg) ie you both go the same speed


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2018)

Nebulous said:


> That looks good - I wish my life was that structured. I'm doing a full set of PBP qualifiers, but not PBP. I don't have a qualifying BRM event from last year, so don't have any ability to pre-qualify.



Keep your options open and if there are still places available for PBP when you are able to enter, then consider it. You don't know where your fitness, health and motivations will be in another four years.


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Dec 2018)

Nebulous said:


> That looks good - I wish my life was that structured. I'm doing a full set of PBP qualifiers, but not PBP. I don't have a qualifying BRM event from last year, so don't have any ability to pre-qualify.



The structure is fairly easy but not rigid. Each training phase you have a priority for each type of session from high to low. If real life gets in a way one week then you drop the low priority sessions. Do not try and catch up missed sessions just carry on with the plan. If you have a significant gap then go back one phase etc.

There are four basic things I work on.

Aerobic capacity - ability to use oxygen as a fuel
Lactate threshold - speed and power at lactate threshold
Aerobic threshold - ability to use fat as primary fuel source
Strength and conditioning

Determine intensity and volume of each for each training phase together with its priority. Retest every so many weeks, include recovery and you are mostly there with your plans.

Something else also worth measuring is efficiency factor. Your average heart rate for a given circuit against the average power or speed. The lower your heart rate for a given power output / speed the more efficiently you are working at that level. Note this is personal don't compare to others just compare to your previous measures / tests.

Rigid plans are doomed to fail, so remain focused on your priorities each phase.


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## CXRAndy (31 Dec 2018)

HLaB said:


> I think realists use W/kg as that is a good comparator for all folks regardless of their weight. Sorry if teaching you to suck eggs but you can have an FTP of 300+w but if your too heavy it will drag and compare to a lighter rider with an FTP of only 255w (but the same W/kg) ie you both go the same speed



Yeah I know about W/kg lightweight riders. ive always been heavy set muscular build, so wont reach 80kg. best ive got is 90 .so have to accept tbe struggle of climbing and hope to win on the flatter course


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jan 2019)

Plan has kicked off!

A low doze of aerobic capacity intervals, follow by strength work this morning. Country walk to pub shortly.


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## CXRAndy (1 Jan 2019)

Extra day off due to sore throat appeared yesterday. Continuation of TrainerRoad started in (last) September. 

My dream target is to get FTP 350 for spring


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## huwsparky (1 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Plan has kicked off!
> 
> A low doze of aerobic capacity intervals, follow by strength work this morning. Country walk to pub shortly.


What is aerobic capacity intervals? Or I should say, what does your session look like when doing this?


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## huwsparky (1 Jan 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> My dream target is to get FTP 350 for spring


What are you now?


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> What is aerobic capacity intervals? Or I should say, what does your session look like when doing this?



The intensity of the intervals is around my aerobic capacity. Another word for aerobic capacity is your vO2 max. On the bike you are talking about the intervals being at a level that you can maintain for a maximum of 5 mins. Your 5 minute power. During low dose the unterval length is 30 secons, followed by 30 sec recovery. The interval length and recovery length will change as I move to late base then build phases.

In short it targets your ability to use oxygen as a fuel. It raises your aerobic capacity towards your genetic potential. Faster for longer before you tire.


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## CXRAndy (1 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> What are you now?


I'm training Sweet spot based on 320FTP .I'm coping but finding the last 30 mins of a 2 hr workout tough. That is to be expected, I'm pushing my limits up.


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## huwsparky (1 Jan 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> I'm training Sweet spot based on 320FTP .I'm coping but finding the last 30 mins of a 2 hr workout tough. That is to be expected, I'm pushing my limits up.


If your sweet spot is 320w then you're at 350w for FTP. 

Dreams do come true!


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## CXRAndy (1 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> If your sweet spot is 320w then you're at 350w for FTP.
> 
> Dreams do come true!



No my Trainer Road ftp level is set at 320 so my sweetspot is around 285-300W for an hour to 1.5 hours I need to get to around 330W for 20min intervals repeatedly over 1.5 hours. That is going to be tough


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## Nebulous (1 Jan 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Start by building a base in zone 2 for 8-16weeks. This will tune your aerobic engine to be as efficient as possible. Then move to something like Sweetspot training to further increase aerobic bit with muscular development of power. These can be added with increasing regularity until you feel fatigue creeping in, then drop the odd routine to keep fresh. After try adding HIIT to peak



What does base in zone 2 mean? Is that all you are allowed to do, or can you also do some harder sessions? Could you do mostly level 2, but do a race a week on zwift for instance? 

Also does activity off the bike contribute anything? I do 3 miles a day walking dogs, twice that on holidays and weekends, so generally a minimum of 25 miles a week. Would that add anything to my base? 

Sorry for all the questions!


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## CXRAndy (1 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> What does base in zone 2 mean? Is that all you are allowed to do, or can you also do some harder sessions? Could you do mostly level 2, but do a race a week on zwift for instance?
> 
> Also does activity off the bike contribute anything? I do 3 miles a day walking dogs, twice that on holidays and weekends, so generally a minimum of 25 miles a week. Would that add anything to my base?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions!



Zone 2 when talking about HR is a pace you can sustain for many hours. It's not a dawdle , just slightly elevated breathing. To workout your heart rate zones is important. There are quite a few calculators, I used the training peaks calc which uses lactate threshold HR https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/

80% of workouts would be done in Zone 2. Maybe once a week a race or VO2 Max workout to keep peak topped up. To build a base you have to go steady for a number of weeks, up to 12-14weeks depending on how fit you're currently. Possible as little as 6 weeks if you are already in good form. 
Use the walks as recovery, if you feel fatigue creeping up
The experts say
, ' think of a pyramid wider the base higher the peak'. 

I personally found once I could cycle non stop on a turbo for 3.5hours, high cadence with a heart rate that tracked level right to the end of the session, I was probably ready for next phase, timing wise a cycle holiday was perfect timing.

Zone 2 for me didn't lead to fatigue, so could do it day after day and be fresh each day. I would take one day off a week and a very easy week every 4 weeks.

I also quickly trained my body just to use water for the whole of these long zone 2 sessions. This makes the body more efficient at using body fat as fuel and not eating fast carbohydrates to fuel. I found it particularly useful in Tenerife where I could ride for several hours on water and just fuel at the organised breaks.


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## huwsparky (1 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> What does base in zone 2 mean? Is that all you are allowed to do, or can you also do some harder sessions? Could you do mostly level 2, but do a race a week on zwift for instance?
> 
> Also does activity off the bike contribute anything? I do 3 miles a day walking dogs, twice that on holidays and weekends, so generally a minimum of 25 miles a week. Would that add anything to my base?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions!


I usually run over 30miles per week. I don't find the running helps with my cycling but the cycling definitely helps my running. So on that basis I wouldn't expect your walks to help much with your fitness.

Yes, I'd highly recommend if you have two sessions a week making your short one very hard (intervals via szwif or whatever) and an easier pace longer ride. I've been mostly concentrating on my running for the last few months and have managed to maintain what most would consider a decent level of fitness with a similar programme.


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## Nebulous (1 Jan 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> Zone 2 when talking about HR is a pace you can sustain for many hours. It's not a dawdle , just slightly elevated breathing. To workout your heart rate zones is important. There are quite a few calculators, I used the training peaks calc which uses lactate threshold HR https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/
> 
> 80% of workouts would be done in Zone 2. Maybe once a week a race or VO2 Max workout to keep peak topped up. To build a base you have to go steady for a number of weeks, up to 12-14weeks depending on how fit you're currently. Possible as little as 6 weeks if you are already in good form.
> Use the walks as recovery, if you feel fatigue creeping up
> ...


Thanks - I don't have time to do that this year, my first audax is in early March. I need to build up distance at a higher pace before then. 

My riding has generally been very unstructured, but I'm good at riding without food. On good form 50 miles on a couple of water bottles works fine.


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## CXRAndy (1 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Thanks - I don't have time to do that this year, my first audax is in early March. I need to build up distance at a higher pace before then.
> 
> My riding has generally been very unstructured, but I'm good at riding without food. On good form 50 miles on a couple of water bottles works fine.



if you're time constraint, then look at sweetspot training which has huge benefits. Watch out for fatigue and rest more often


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jan 2019)

Did another set of aerobic capacity intervals today. I was scheduled to do aerobic threshold today but car repairs means I do not have the 2-3 hours spare. I can say I well and truly died, these intervals are hard and you are only meant to do them once a week. Not enough recovery time from Tuesday's session. Lesson learnt. Will fit aerobic threshold in on Sat hopefully.

Managed some strength work afterwards.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Thanks - I don't have time to do that this year, my first audax is in early March. I need to build up distance at a higher pace before then.
> 
> My riding has generally been very unstructured, but I'm good at riding without food. On good form 50 miles on a couple of water bottles works fine.



How much time a week do you have available for your training and how does it split down by day? You will want to split up intervals with longer lower intensity work. Former for speed and power and latter for fat burning.


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## Nebulous (3 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> How much time a week do you have available for your training and how does it split down by day? You will want to split up intervals with longer lower intensity work. Former for speed and power and latter for fat burning.



Sorry - this is long! 

My history has been of simply riding my bike, usually pretty hard, not training as such. I do more miles leading up to an event. Unfortunately it has often been punctuated by breaks of varying lengths (1-3 weeks) particularly after an event or when life events intrude. My comfort zone is 2 - 3 hours quite hard, 35-50 miles. Leading up to an audax I'll try to do a couple of longer 70-80 mile rides in the 2-3 weeks before. I ride my bike more or less every working day, but that is only 3 miles 1.5 each way on flat pedals and in work clothes. 

I have started more structured training since I got my turbo and am committing a steady 5 hours per week at the moment currently doing the zwift ftp builder course, on week 5 out of 5, only two sessions left to do. Thinking of doing the Gran Fondo one after that which looks like an 8 hour per week commitment. 

I'm splitting my time between two locations for family reasons. Sun-Thursday is at home, although I can have an overnight away in a hotel for work reasons. Recently that has increased and has been 3 weeks out of 4 in the run up to Christmas. The other location 50 miles away is Friday/ Saturday night, has a bike, and I'm going to set up another 'dumb turbo' with a speed and cadence sensor, which should allow me to do training sessions, though probably not races without the smart function. 

So timing could look like this:- 

Mon 6am - 1 hour turbo 
Tues 6am 1 hour turbo
Wed leave early, work late stay in a hotel 
Thursday still away fairly late home
Friday 6am 1 hour turbo
Saturday 35 mile ride outside
Sunday evening Zwift race 

As the mornings lighten and the temperature rises I'll swop one of the morning turbo sessions for another 35 mile ride outside. Most weeks April to September I aim for 100 miles a week outside and make it roughly 3 weeks out of 4. In the run up to an event I'll do a 5-6 hour ride one day at the weekend. 

What I have never done is spend long low intensity sessions building base. I don't see I have an opportunity to do that this year before my events start, as I'm coming to this too late, but can see me having room for it Oct - Dec at the end of the year, in preparation for the next season.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Sorry - this is long!
> 
> My history has been of simply riding my bike, usually pretty hard, not training as such. I do more miles leading up to an event. Unfortunately it has often been punctuated by breaks of varying lengths (1-3 weeks) particularly after an event or when life events intrude. My comfort zone is 2 - 3 hours quite hard, 35-50 miles. Leading up to an audax I'll try to do a couple of longer 70-80 mile rides in the 2-3 weeks before. I ride my bike more or less every working day, but that is only 3 miles 1.5 each way on flat pedals and in work clothes.
> 
> ...



Save the hard efforts for the turbo and use your 35-50 mile rides as an opportunity to develop your fat burning ability. When suitably adapted you should be able to ride 130 miles / 200 km without eating. Even for longer events you will eat less, stop less, and be less likely to suffer gastric distress.

If you ride hard then you are only working one of the adaptions that form your fitness. Also be wary of always going 100% effort, 100% of the time, that will not lead to the best improvements or even be detrimental to them.

As a further question. What was your FTP before you started the builder? Also now you are also near the end of that period of training, do not forget to retest your FTP. If you are not measuring the elements you are trying to improve then you cannot quantify how effective your training is and whether it needs changing. 

Also, do not make the mistake of doing exactly the same workouts for long periods without change. Have a read of periodisation of training.


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## OnTheRopes (4 Jan 2019)

200kms without eating? What good is that going to do and why would you want to? 35-50 miles is not really good preparation for riding 200kms and I would suggest nearer the event you want to be trying to getting a couple of 70 - 80 kms in at least in the month leading up to the event.


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## CXRAndy (4 Jan 2019)

Ketosis, I think is the word or form of training. My understanding is it's suboptimal performance, because the body cant metabolise the fats fast enough for high intensity activity. So maybe one could ride 120 miles without food

I know I couldn't, love my food too much


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Jan 2019)

OnTheRopes said:


> 200kms without eating? What good is that going to do and why would you want to? 35-50 miles is not really good preparation for riding 200kms and I would suggest nearer the event you want to be trying to getting a couple of 70 - 80 kms in at least in the month leading up to the event.



In winter it means getting back before sunset, on longer rides it means not having to stop because of gastric distress. On longer rides it means you can ride with fewer emergency provisions and ride through the night without needing to stop. It means you can ride for longer and faster between sit down meals. On a 400km ride it means you can be back by midnight and in bed rather than needing to ride through the night. On a 600km ride it means you can sleep for quite a while after the first day before finishing on the second.


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## Nebulous (4 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Save the hard efforts for the turbo and use your 35-50 mile rides as an opportunity to develop your fat burning ability. When suitably adapted you should be able to ride 130 miles / 200 km without eating. Even for longer events you will eat less, stop less, and be less likely to suffer gastric distress.
> 
> If you ride hard then you are only working one of the adaptions that form your fitness. Also be wary of always going 100% effort, 100% of the time, that will not lead to the best improvements or even be detrimental to them.
> 
> ...



My ftp was 200 as tested before I started the training course, although a couple of weeks after that I was doing an unstructured ride on zwift and it told me it had now gone up to 217. I'm not feeling on top form, with a runny nose, but I intend doing my last session, having a couple of rest days and then testing again.


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## Nebulous (4 Jan 2019)

OnTheRopes said:


> 200kms without eating? What good is that going to do and why would you want to? 35-50 miles is not really good preparation for riding 200kms and I would suggest nearer the event you want to be trying to getting a couple of 70 - 80 kms in at least in the month leading up to the event.



At the moment I can get up, go straight out and do 50 miles on a bottle of water, then breakfast after I come back. As I said I will do 70 - 80 miles a couple of times before my first audax this year.

I find a 200 km audax reasonably straightforward, but longer distance endurance events are a challenge and it's good for me to hear from someone like yukonboy, who is willing to share his experiences.


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## huwsparky (4 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> At the moment I can get up, go straight out and do 50 miles on a bottle of water, then breakfast after I come back. As I said I will do 70 - 80 miles a couple of times before my first audax this year.
> 
> I find a 200 km audax reasonably straightforward, but longer distance endurance events are a challenge and it's good for me to hear from someone like yukonboy, who is willing to share his experiences.


What are your goals, a 200km audax?


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## Nebulous (5 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> What are your goals, a 200km audax?



I've signed up for a full set in March - June 2019. A 200, 300, 400 and 600 to give an SR. 

That's a start - but I'm aiming for even longer, with a very small chance of qualifying for Paris - Brest - Paris in early August at 1200 km.


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## huwsparky (5 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> I've signed up for a full set in March - June 2019. A 200, 300, 400 and 600 to give an SR.
> 
> That's a start - but I'm aiming for even longer, with a very small chance of qualifying for Paris - Brest - Paris in early August at 1200 km.


That sounds like a good challenge. I'm not familiar with the audax scene and the requirements for PBP qualification but I'm going to assume it's time based, based on these qualifying events?

In which case, a lot of your training (if done properly) at least will be in fat adaptation zones (Z1+2) and possibly sometimes in a state of ketosis. That I don't have a problem with, but ultimately, if you want to get from A to B as quickly as possible you'll need to fuel properly and have a very good understanding of what your body needs to do so and implement your strategy into training also. I'm kind of familiar with this as I do long distance triathlon and I'd say, the single biggest reason people don't finish Ironman events or underperform to their expectations is almost always nutritionally based.

When I'm in my build phase of training I'll be doing a lot of my training exactly how I'm gonna race, so my body is as efficient as possible in using the calories in giving it to extract as much performance as I can and to not 'hit the wall', and to hopefully get to the end as quickly as possible! This will be exactly the same approach that anyone would take that's serious about performance, from team sky to Mark Beumont who reportedly was taking a minimum of 8000 calories per day to fuel his round the world race.

To make a point of trying to go 130 miles without food is definitely going to be detrimental to your performance, I don't think you can really argue with this based on what information is readily available on optimal fuelling for endurance athletes.


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## Nebulous (5 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> That sounds like a good challenge. I'm not familiar with the audax scene and the requirements for PBP qualification but I'm going to assume it's time based, based on these qualifying events?
> 
> In which case, a lot of your training (if done properly) at least will be in fat adaptation zones (Z1+2) and possibly sometimes in a state of ketosis. That I don't have a problem with, but ultimately, if you want to get from A to B as quickly as possible you'll need to fuel properly and have a very good understanding of what your body needs to do so and implement your strategy into training also. I'm kind of familiar with this as I do long distance triathlon and I'd say, the single biggest reason people don't finish Ironman events or underperform to their expectations is almost always nutritionally based.
> 
> ...



The requirement is to complete a set of qualifying events within the timescales. These are not hugely demanding times, based on an average speed, but the kicker is the clock keeps running, regardless of whether you are asleep or stopped to eat. Its done unsupported so you carry your own food or stop and buy it. Fit fast racing snakes will have plenty time to eat and get some sleep. Less fit people will cut the breaks and simply keep those wheels turning. One thing that surprised me on my first audax was the sheer efficiency of the riders. Unlike on a sportive or club run they don't sprint up hills, or stand up, and they freewheel wherever possible. 

I hit a wall at about 80 miles without food and if I do that it then becomes very difficult to recover. So my strategy will involve either snacking on the bike or going no more than 50 miles without a food stop. It's possible to minimise these as well though, grab, eat and run, rather than socialise and recover. People will often stop for 30 minutes when the refuelling could be completed in 10. 

The very long events involve a withdrawal from the world, with nothing mattering except the road and the bike - a complete focus on the task at hand, which is scary and somehow life changing at the same time. You ask somebody a question which doesn't relate to the journey they are on towards the end of a long event and you're unlikely to get a coherent answer. In many ways it is more a mental challenge than a physical one.

So there are different strategies - from elite riders aiming for a very fast time, to wily old foxes determined to use all their skills to make it just within the timescale. 

To qualify for PBP I need to complete all these events, but there is also a pre-qualification which allows you to enter sooner based on the longest official ride you did in the previous season. That was not a good season for me. I did some 200s, but none of them were registered in the way they needed to be internationally, so even completing a qualifying set of events I may find there are no places left because they have all gone to people who pre-qualified.


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## OnTheRopes (5 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> At the moment I can get up, go straight out and do 50 miles on a bottle of water, then breakfast after I come back. As I said I will do 70 - 80 miles a couple of times before my first audax this year.
> 
> I find a 200 km audax reasonably straightforward, but longer distance endurance events are a challenge and it's good for me to hear from someone like yukonboy, who is willing to share his experiences.



I missed that part of the thread and thought you were pretty new to cycling, now reading back I see you are aiming for PBP I thought you were training for your first 200k event which is why I thought Yukons advice was not good. My bad and I will butt out as 200k is the farthest I normally ride


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## Nebulous (5 Jan 2019)

OnTheRopes said:


> I missed that part of the thread and thought you were pretty new to cycling, now reading back I see you are aiming for PBP I thought you were training for your first 200k event which is why I thought Yukons advice was not good. My bad and I will butt out as 200k is the farthest I normally ride


Yukon has more experience of long events than me - and is certainly worth listening to in my view. 

I'm trying to open my mind to different ideas, rather than just doing my own thing, so welcome different views. 130 miles without food is a long way away for me, but I remember thinking I was going to die at around 23 miles when I started. I had to stop at a small shop and stuff sugar-based sweets down my throat to stop shaking.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jan 2019)

Indeed different strategies apply for the longer events. For instance stopping to eat at all the PBP controls can mean you join long food queues and add hours that you could have used for sleep. By being able to ride through and eat at the next one it means you get ahead of the bulge of riders. You can bank time for sleep. The distances are so far that very few can rely on speed alone. Indeed those who strategy is to just cane it at the start are often found wanting later on in the events and struggle. The ability to be able to ride 200km or more without eating is not necessarily something you apply every long ride. But it is a great asset to have in your bank to deploy if necessary.

Audax is non competitive and times mean nothing other than finishing within the time limit. Since it is overall time that counts a strategy of riding slightly slower but with fewer (and shorter) stops can yield a more comfortable ride in a shorter elapsed time. Fat adapted means you can lift the average speed you ride at whilst still primarily burning fat,


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Jan 2019)

A solid four hours this morning but farking cold today. Nice bit of aerobic threshold riding in the bank.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jan 2019)

Another 2.5 hours outdoors after lunch. Mix of lactate threshold intervals on the hills and long recoveries in between. Saw about a dozen other cyclists in the hills. On the recumbent today. Much warmer than the other bikes.


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## Nebulous (6 Jan 2019)

Finished my last session of the FTP builder yesterday. The plan was to take a couple of days off then retest. However I got up today with a mucky throat, coughing up yellow gunk. A retest isn't going to work until I've recovered.

Went out on the bike for the first time this year, trying to keep to zone 2 for 2 hours. 

Some observations: 

A turbo is nothing like riding a bike. 
It's very difficult to be consistent with rolling terrain - did about 500 metres of climb.
Cold weather doesn't matter if you have the right equipment. My new pair of bib tights were nice and warm with a comfy pad.


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## OnTheRopes (6 Jan 2019)

When riding zone 2 outside its okay to go above this on short climbs its the average power you need to look at and keep that in Zone 2. Are you using a power meter? I generally find a Zone 2 ride outside is better done off heart rate.


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## Nebulous (6 Jan 2019)

OnTheRopes said:


> When riding zone 2 outside its okay to go above this on short climbs its the average power you need to look at and keep that in Zone 2. Are you using a power meter? I generally find a Zone 2 ride outside is better done off heart rate.



Thanks - no I don't have a powermeter. I almost always wear my heart rate monitor and was using it. Its good to know that I'm able to up it on the hills!


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Thanks - no I don't have a powermeter. I almost always wear my heart rate monitor and was using it. Its good to know that I'm able to up it on the hills!



You can treat uphillls as intervals if you like then take it relatively easy the rest of the time.


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## Heltor Chasca (7 Jan 2019)

New FTP day. Improvement of just over 8% bringing me back to over 3W/kg. I lost loads of fitness due to a back and chest injury which surprised me, but I have no medical understanding. That said, since I was a kid, I have built fitness quickly. Overall I am pleased.

Numerically, my stars are aligning too. My new FTP number correlates with the NEXT PBP. Superstition. All superstition.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> New FTP day. Improvement of just over 8% bringing me back to over 3W/kg. I lost loads of fitness due to a back and chest injury which surprised me, but I have no medical understanding. That said, since I was a kid, I have built fitness quickly. Overall I am pleased.
> 
> Numerically, my stars are aligning too. My new FTP number correlates with the NEXT PBP. Superstition. All superstition.



Good result. My next FTP test is early Feb. Though I am mostly focused on strength work, aerobic threshold then aerobic capacity at the moment.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Jan 2019)

Some strength work and aerobic capacity intervals today. Much better than effort on Thu where I faded in the later intervals. Good consistent set today.

Bonus, I have lost 1kg since Christmas.


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## HLaB (7 Jan 2019)

I'm supposed to have my first structured training session of the year tomorrow but given that I was supposed to be asleep 2hours ago


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jan 2019)

HLaB said:


> I'm supposed to have my first structured training session of the year tomorrow but given that I was supposed to be asleep 2hours ago



Did it happen?


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jan 2019)

Another low doze of aerobic capacity intervals tonight followed by some strength work. HR battery dead tonight, but power output and speed strayed good across all the intervals. So a good session.


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## huwsparky (9 Jan 2019)

No offence, but but if you want to take this thread and turn it into what looks like a personal diary you might want to start another one so that the people who aren't interested don't have to read it.

Just a thought.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> No offence, but but if you want to take this thread and turn it into what looks like a personal diary you might want to start another one so that the people who aren't interested don't have to read it.
> 
> Just a thought.



Hey if you are not doing any training then no need to read or comment. It is hardly a personal diary, just not many doing training or posting at the minute. I started this thread for everyone, please do join in with what training you are doing.


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## HLaB (10 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Did it happen?


Yip, and it was the most powerful I've been since my FTP test Sept 2017. So I was pretty pleased


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Jan 2019)

HLaB said:


> Yip, and it was the most powerful I've been since my FTP test Sept 2017. So I was pretty pleased



Excellent, now to follow your plan to improve it.


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## Heltor Chasca (13 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> No offence, but but if you want to take this thread and turn it into what looks like a personal diary you might want to start another one so that the people who aren't interested don't have to read it.
> 
> Just a thought.



I don’t know. I take a lot from the vast experience and what @YukonBoy has to say.

You?


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## HLaB (13 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Excellent, now to follow your plan to improve it.


Hope so but a bl00dy work deadline may get in the way this week :-/


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## Nebulous (14 Jan 2019)

Going back to work seems to have impacted my determination to be structured. It didn't help that my training plan finished at the same time. I'm still doing a fair bit of work - almost all on zwift, but not as planned as it should be. 

I finished my ftp builder with a choked nose / cold. I had intended two days off, retest and then start a new training plan, probably the gran fondo one. I didn't think it was sensible doing a test with a cold, so I've messed about doing other things for the last week. On Saturday I did the zwift tour, a full-on hour at around FTP. Sunday I made up my own workout on zwift. There is a builder which allows you to do your own. Primarily a zone 2 session with 4 x 20 second high intensity intervals. This morning I've done a free ride on zwift, but ended up pushing on a sprint and a couple of climbs. 

I'm away a lot this week, so will likely have a few rest days whether I like it or not.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2019)

I pushed it a bit on the pedals outdoors on Sat. The training is definitely having an affect and the average speed has climbed for a three hour loop I do. It has also been interesting comparing heart rate pushing outdoors compared to the turbo.


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## Heltor Chasca (14 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> I pushed it a bit on the pedals outdoors on Sat. The training is definitely having an affect and the average speed has climbed for a three hour loop I do. It has also been interesting comparing heart rate pushing outdoors compared to the turbo.



Interesting yes. I find I can elevate my heart rate much more outdoors for some reason. On the turbo I find it hard.


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Interesting yes. I find I can elevate my heart rate much more outdoors for some reason. On the turbo I find it hard.



You have to remember that the heart rate lags behind during short intervals. This is why they recommend working to a power level rather than heart rate for intervals less than 3 minutes or so. Outdoors you are already warmed up, and when you do harder efforts on hills they are often for a longer period which allows the heart rate to climb further.

Last week I did an interval session after getting back from being outdoors on the bike for a couple of hours. Interesting I set my highest heart rate I have done on the set of intervals I did. I now wonder if a longer warm up might facilitate a higher heart rate when I get to the interval section. Suggesting the heart needs to warm up properly just like leg muscles before it can reach its maximum output. Of course the aim of the improvement is that for a given power output your average heart rate should drop as you get fitter.


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## HLaB (14 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Interesting yes. I find I can elevate my heart rate much more outdoors for some reason. On the turbo I find it hard.


Everyone is different but you have air cooling outside to let you gradually build your hr and probably more motivation to do so. I think that was true of me when I was younger but I seem to be able to push a wee bit harder indoors without worrying about what will happen next; it also shows that I don't have a decently long hill here


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Jan 2019)

Did some high gear, low cadence work today as part of my strength build work. Interestingly the average speed stays similar but the max heart rate is lower. Hopefully the result in the summer will be the ability to do high gear high cadence in more places boosting the average speed. I do this work outdoors whilst I am also doing my endurance work.


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## HLaB (15 Jan 2019)

I like this new session I'm doing tonight was more powerful than all of 2018 apart from a 6seconds of an outdoor sprint. Its was also only 2 watts off my 20min best of 2017


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## Ming the Merciless (16 Jan 2019)

Max heart rate is dropping for the workouts I am doing. Tempted to move to the next phase early but will hold on before FTP retest. Good to see lower heart rates for the same power. Moving in right direction.


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## HLaB (20 Jan 2019)

If the stats are to be trusted fresh structured training over the last couple of months has brought back my power fast. I was only 2 watts off my 20 min best on Thursday night and apart from that its the most powerful I've been in a couple of years and after today I'm one unit off Strava 'Fitness and Freshness' metric and my VO2 max is up to 65 in Garmin


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2019)

Two weeks till next power tests. Did a vo2 max power pyramid interval session the other day. The longest interval was four minutes, two minute rest, then two minute interval. Boy was that tough as the max I can hold that power is five minutes.


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## Heltor Chasca (23 Jan 2019)

I didn’t know till early Tuesday morning that I’ve been fighting off a bug. That explains why Monday’s sweet spot 1.5hrs was really hard. An hour of sweet spot this evening and I coped quite well.


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I didn’t know till early Tuesday morning that I’ve been fighting off a bug. That explains why Monday’s sweet spot 1.5hrs was really hard. An hour of sweet spot this evening and I coped quite well.



My wife is ill and off work, so will see if I pick it up or get away with it. Rest period will come early if I go down with it.


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jan 2019)

Did some strength work today. Basically trainer on slope mode and high gear / low cadence pedaling. Seems easy on first uphill but your muscles tire by second uphill and burn by the fourth. Heart rate was not that high as not intended to be a high aerobic workout but surprised at how much sweat I had generated in the end. A good workout to complement the other ones. Normally I do this on on hills outdoors, but too icy today.

Early signs of sniffles but still ok to keep going at the moment. Two weeks till recovery week comes along.


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## Nebulous (24 Jan 2019)

I've been working considerably harder than I usually do over the winter. Using training sessions on zwift, including the ftp builder, and some group events. I've been working consistently as well, which I'm pleased with, compared with my normal seesaw efforts. My choked nose is largely gone, but I still haven't retested my ftp. After overeating at Christmas the weight has finally begun to shift as well- I've lost a kilo. Feeling a bit weary, slightly heavy legs, possibly not helped by running a calorie deficit. Certainly a different approach, which hopefully will translate well into picking up my outdoor work as spring arrives.


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## JhnBssll (24 Jan 2019)

I've been pushing on with zone 2 efforts since 1st of Jan. I'm using Fridays as a rest day and trying to either commute by bike or ride on Zwift in the evening. Going well so far, I'm averaging just over an hour a day so far in January  Mileage wise I'm at 387 so far and I'll be getting close to 500 for January if I keep going at this rate next week 

I'm going to carry on with the zone 2 rides for another few weeks and see where I am weight and fitness wise before concentrating on building FTP again. I don't think building FTP and losing weight simultaneously would be a lot of fun  I'm 5.2kg down so far this year and on target to have lost a stone in January so pretty pleased with that


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## Ming the Merciless (24 Jan 2019)

Nebulous said:


> I've been working considerably harder than I usually do over the winter. Using training sessions on zwift, including the ftp builder, and some group events. I've been working consistently as well, which I'm pleased with, compared with my normal seesaw efforts. My choked nose is largely gone, but I still haven't retested my ftp. After overeating at Christmas the weight has finally begun to shift as well- I've lost a kilo. Feeling a bit weary, slightly heavy legs, possibly not helped by running a calorie deficit. Certainly a different approach, which hopefully will translate well into picking up my outdoor work as spring arrives.



Don't overtrain, recovery time is important as well.

Stress + recovery = fitness


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## HLaB (24 Jan 2019)

I think I should do a new FTP test Strava thinks Im up to 264w from 228w. I don't know if I'm fully up to 264w but it feels like I'm higher than 228w. Tonight was more of a cadence session but in hitting my cadence target I'm 90-100w over my secondary power target and I'm already in my lowest gear


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Jan 2019)

Bloody hard hill repeats today, defo a rest day tomorrow. Another week then bit of a rest and retest FTP.


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## mattobrien (26 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Stress + recovery = fitness



Can someone tell that to my coach please, we certainly seem to be focusing on the stress element at the moment


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2019)

My resting HR and HRV indicate a day of active recovery today. So will go for a walk in country, nice amount of fresh air. Hopefully long low heart rate ride tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing result of FTP retest next week.


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## Nebulous (27 Jan 2019)

I'm just making this up as I go along now. I'm doing 1 hard, 2 moderately hard and two zone 2 sessions a week. Hard one is a race or event on zwift, moderate ones are workouts on zwift, but I'm making up the zone 2 ones myself. I can hold over an hour at 70% of ftp with much less upward drift of my heartrate than I could a month ago. I've been trying to put some variety into these sessions, today I did cadence drills. 5 mins warm-up then a steady 155watts for 10 mins each at a cadence of 70,80,90,100,90,80,70. Then 5 mins cooldown. 

The turbo allows you to monitor small adjustments much more readily than on the road. For instance, moving my hands from the tops to the hoods drops my heartrate by 2-3 beats. It must open up my chest to get more oxygen in. On the road that would probably be countered by a wider frontal area increasing drag.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I didn’t know till early Tuesday morning that I’ve been fighting off a bug. That explains why Monday’s sweet spot 1.5hrs was really hard. An hour of sweet spot this evening and I coped quite well.



Take it easy if you have a bug. The setback is usually greater than the gain if you push on.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Take it easy if you have a bug. The setback is usually greater than the gain if you push on.



You are right. With experience and age I am learning this. Flat 200 (1500m elevation) on Saturday with 60% headwind. Knowingly I took it steady and I feel ok (ish) Harder than usual, but I knew that. Leaving the turbo alone till Tuesday


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## HLaB (27 Jan 2019)

HLaB said:


> I think I should do a new FTP test Strava thinks Im up to 264w from 228w. I don't know if I'm fully up to 264w but it feels like I'm higher than 228w. Tonight was more of a cadence session but in hitting my cadence target I'm 90-100w over my secondary power target and I'm already in my lowest gear


Ive scheduled in an FTP test for Friday. Tuesday normally my preferred day but I a social.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Jan 2019)

Kicked out a 3 hour low intensity ride today. How others do these kind of rides on a turbo I will never know. Problem with low intensity this time of year is that your feet get cold. Lovely ride in the winter sun though and lanes nice and quiet.


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## Heltor Chasca (28 Jan 2019)

Today I downloaded the ‘My Fitness Food Tracker’ app by Under Armour. Blimey what an eye opener. Hungry mid morning so inhaled 4 choc hobnob type biscuits. Almost the equivalent of a full meal!


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Today I downloaded the ‘My Fitness Food Tracker’ app by Under Armour. Blimey what an eye opener. Hungry mid morning so inhaled 4 choc hobnob type biscuits. Almost the equivalent of a full meal!



Cor haven't had a biscuit in a long time


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## Ian H (29 Jan 2019)

My programme: Ride the qualifying series including a few hilly events. Ride a few time-trials. Ride a few other events that interest me.
Not necessarily in that order. 

In 2015 I included the 24hr, but I'm feeling lazier this time.


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## Ming the Merciless (29 Jan 2019)

Weight down to 77kg from 80kg beginning of year. Mostly limiting beer to no more than a pint during the week plus upping the amount of cycling compared to Dec.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> You are right. With experience and age I am learning this. Flat 200 (1500m elevation) on Saturday with 60% headwind. Knowingly I took it steady and I feel ok (ish) Harder than usual, but I knew that. Leaving the turbo alone till Tuesday



Did you jump on the turbo yesterday and if so what'd you do?


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Did you jump on the turbo yesterday and if so what'd you do?



An hour of anaerobic at 120% of FTP. I felt pretty good and broke 18 personal bests.

Then had a blood nose at 02:00am. Unrelated I’m sure. I rarely get blood noses. Work has been very physical and it has been cold. Lost 500g in two days which is a lot, but not dehydrated. Maybe the scales had a funny moment.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> An hour of anaerobic at 120% of FTP. I felt pretty good and broke 18 personal bests.
> 
> Then had a blood nose at 02:00am. Unrelated I’m sure. I rarely get blood noses. Work has been very physical and it has been cold. Lost 500g in two days which is a lot, but not dehydrated. Maybe the scales had a funny moment.



How much time spent at 120%? By definition it cannot be an hour unless your FTP is wrong.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> How much time spent at 120%? By definition it cannot be an hour unless your FTP is wrong.



Roughly 29% of the workout. And 130% not 120%!


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## huwsparky (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> View attachment 449809
> 
> 
> Roughly 29% of the workout. And 130% not 120%!


Your FTP is way out. Look at your IF...

What's your setup?


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> Your FTP is way out. Look at your IF...
> 
> What's your setup?



It’s not out. That ‘graph’ you see shows where my FTP is (white line) and the blue bars are the 50 second efforts you work to above your FTP.

Why do you think it’s out and why do you think TR are wrong? The IF is 0.98, which on TR denotes you will give it almost your 100% best effort. Where 1 is your maximum.

Constructive answers welcome.


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## huwsparky (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> It’s not out. That ‘graph’ you see shows where my FTP is (white line) and the blue bars are the 50 second efforts you work to above your FTP.
> 
> Why do you think it’s out and why do you think TR are wrong? The IF is 0.98, which on TR denotes you will give it almost your 100% best effort. Where 1 is your maximum.
> 
> Constructive answers welcome.


If your going to argue with me on why that can't be possible then i may as well give up. 

Good luck anyway!


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> If your going to argue with me on why that can't be possible then i may as well give up.
> 
> Good luck anyway!



Good advice. I would give up. 

That workout is right off their site if you want to have a gander. That diagram doesn’t even show my actual workout. It is a blank.

I’m going to hedge my bets they know better than you.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

The IF is fine, that includes the low intensity periods as well. For vo2 workouts it is typically 0.85 to 0.95 so @Heltor Chasca's if actually slightly higher than usual.

So about 7.5 mins at slightly about VO2 Max per block of intervals and three blocks. I restrict myself to no more than 15 mins max at that level during a workout. But I don't know how often you do that workout in your current training phase.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> The IF is fine, that includes the low intensity periods as well. For vo2 workouts it is typically 0.85 to 0.95 so @Heltor Chasca's if actually slightly higher than usual.
> 
> So about 7.5 mins at slightly about VO2 Max per block of intervals and three blocks. I restrict myself to no more than 15 mins max at that level during a workout. But I don't know how often you do that workout in your current training phase.



That is the first and only time I have done that workout. It is in the second last week of their ‘General Build Low Level’ programme. After last night, it’s not one I would like to do often! https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/154-general-build-low-volume

As for TR’s definition of IF: 

Intensity Factor - IF®

This is how intense a ride is. A ride with an Intensity Factor of 1.0 would equal an all out effort for an hour. If you did an hour at .8 IF that means it was about an 80% effort.

TrainerRoad has the Intensity Factor of each workout specified. This helps you gauge the difficulty of each workout.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> That is the first and only time I have done that workout. It is in the second last week of their ‘General Build Low Level’ programme. After last night, it’s not one I would like to do often! https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/154-general-build-low-volume
> 
> As for TR’s definition of IF:
> 
> ...



If 1.0 is working at your FTP steady state for an hour. You clearly can't do VO2 Max for t an hour. Short recoveries helps adaption to be be able to do repeat all out efforts before fully recovered. Not too specific to Audax but helps maximize VO2 Max potential so good for short sharp bursts / hill climbs. Can be good early in the season as you are doing.


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## huwsparky (30 Jan 2019)

Your actual FTP is higher than your FTP setting in TR. Trust me.


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## Heltor Chasca (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> If 1.0 is working at your FTP steady state for an hour. You clearly can't do VO2 Max for t an hour. Short recoveries helps adaption to be be able to do repeat all out efforts before fully recovered. Not too specific to Audax but helps maximize VO2 Max potential so good for short sharp bursts / hill climbs. Can be good early in the season as you are doing.



Absolutely. I am not sure any of the programs are perfectly suited to Audax, but that’s ok. I use the turbo for general fitness, strength and to keep weight as near to my optimum as I can. 

That said, my cycling ability and comfort on Audax events have helped my personal enjoyment so much more since I have been on the turbo. A lot of the TR workouts include little drills, like pedal stroke, single leg work, one leg work, aero work and out of saddle drills. I really have learned a lot from them.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Absolutely. I am not sure any of the programs are perfectly suited to Audax, but that’s ok. I use the turbo for general fitness, strength and to keep weight as near to my optimum as I can.
> 
> That said, my cycling ability and comfort on Audax events have helped my personal enjoyment so much more since I have been on the turbo. A lot of the TR workouts include little drills, like pedal stroke, single leg work, one leg work, aero work and out of saddle drills. I really have learned a lot from them.



If the hard hill is no harder than what you have managed on the turbo it helps a lot. Mentally you know what's coming and you know how long you can keep going at that level. But you still need to do the lower intensity stuff and work all the different bits of your physiology.


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## huwsparky (30 Jan 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> If the hard hill is no harder than what you have managed on the turbo it helps a lot. Mentally you know what's coming and you know how long you can keep going at that level. But you still need to do the lower intensity stuff and work all the different bits of your physiology.


WTF are you talking about? How on earth does what you can manage on a turbo after an hour even compare to what you might have to do after 10+ hours in the saddle if you're doing a 300 audax or whatever . This page is absolute gold. I should call back more often.


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## Ming the Merciless (30 Jan 2019)

huwsparky said:


> WTF are you talking about? How on earth does what you can manage on a turbo after an hour even compare to what you might have to do after 10+ hours in the saddle if you're doing a 300 audax or whatever . This page is absolute gold. I should call back more often.



You are able to go faster for longer at lower heart rates using more fat for fuel as a result of the adaptions your body makes to the training. All excellent adaptions for Audax.

Because how fast you can get up a hill is generally determined by your Vo2 Max and threshold power vs. weight. Ten hours of riding does not change that. The turbo time we were discussing increases vo2max to your potential. As does the other turbo work on threshold to lift FTP.

If you only ride at low intensities preparing for your audaxes fine, but I find a mix of specific high and low intensity works far better and requires less time.


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## HLaB (31 Jan 2019)

HLaB said:


> Ive scheduled in an FTP test for Friday. Tuesday normally my preferred day but I a social.


I ended up doing the FTP test last night, its what I thought. Since a medical event last Feb I've been getting better balance but an chronic Iron deficiency hid its benefits for 6 months or so and I've been bouncing back since but the previous test was only a month after that and I've improved significantly and put on a couple of kilos (hopefully muscle). Not something I want to repeat but I might have got my muscles used to running on low oxygen during that months  To cut a long story short my best FTP is up from 4.3w/kg to 4.5w/kg (295w)


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## Ming the Merciless (31 Jan 2019)

Good effort, that's an impressive power to weight ratio.


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## mgs315 (1 Feb 2019)

Eurgh. Tour de Zwift finished so FTP time, up to 256W (3.75w/kg). 

Question is what training plan on Zwift will be best? 4 week FTP builder, 12 week ‘Build me up’ or Gran Fondo? My main event this year is Tour of Flanders sportive with a fair load of 100mi+ rides scattered around summer.


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## HLaB (1 Feb 2019)

mgs315 said:


> Eurgh. Tour de Zwift finished so FTP time, up to 256W (3.75w/kg).
> 
> Question is what training plan on Zwift will be best? 4 week FTP builder, 12 week ‘Build me up’ or Gran Fondo? My main event this year is Tour of Flanders sportive with a fair load of 100mi+ rides scattered around summer.



Its a lot of short hard power climbs at the end if you are doing the full one, that continuously if your doing any of the shorter ones but I no idea which would be best in Zwift for that as I don't use the app but good luck


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## mgs315 (2 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> Its a lot of short hard power climbs at the end if you are doing the full one, that continuously if your doing any of the shorter ones but I no idea which would be best in Zwift for that as I don't use the app but good luck



Yep doing the 174km (no need to do the longer one as it’s only flat riding plus we’ve quite a few km to get to the start anyway). Ok cool I’ll probably just do FTP build and tailor it for 5 min power before the event.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> Its a lot of short hard power climbs at the end if you are doing the full one, that continuously if your doing any of the shorter ones but I no idea which would be best in Zwift for that as I don't use the app but good luck



When is the sportive and what are your weaknesses? I know plenty of people who are fast for the first 3/4 hours then they crash and burn. How is your endurance, does it need work? The old expression train your weaknesses, use your strengths has some merit. Again don't use Zwift so do not know what programs they have to match your needs.

Edit - meant to reply to mgs315


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## mgs315 (2 Feb 2019)

Aye endurance is my shortcoming at the mo. Got a fair few rides up to about 100mi planned but wanted to complement it with a decent indoor program whilst the weather is a bit crap.

Sportive is in April.


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## HLaB (2 Feb 2019)

mgs315 said:


> Yep doing the 174km (no need to do the longer one as it’s only flat riding plus we’ve quite a few km to get to the start anyway). Ok cool I’ll probably just do FTP build and tailor it for 5 min power before the event.


I did the long one in 2013 but as you say its flat and boring for the first bit of a pain logistically. I had to go to bed early get up at 3am and cycle 20miles to Oudenarde whilst my mates doing the 134 km all got drunk. Subsequent years I've did the 134km with them and enjoyed it more


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## HLaB (3 Feb 2019)

I am hopefully seeing the benefit of my structured training and I've bounced back relatively quickly annus horribbilis. The last few rides I've felt like I could sit again in the sweet spot zone (75%-85% max HR) for a good period of time and up it when I've needed too. Whereas, last year I was hitting the wall near 80%


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## JhnBssll (3 Feb 2019)

I just did an ftp test, pleased to see a slight increase from 220 to 232W. With my weight loss my W/kg has gone from 1.8 last year to 2.3, hoping to get over 2.5 by spring  I know it's pretty low still but it's a start


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Feb 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> I just did an ftp test, pleased to see a slight increase from 220 to 232W. With my weight loss my W/kg has gone from 1.8 last year to 2.3, hoping to get over 2.5 by spring  I know it's pretty low still but it's a start



It is all progress and not too ambitious a target. Hope your new workouts are not too hard with the new FTP figure.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Feb 2019)

Just entered my rest week, then test and kick off the next phase of training. Resting HR has dropped which is a good sign of improving fitness. Let's hope the test after I am rested agrees with my gut instinct.


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Feb 2019)

Final week of active recovery in my Build Phase on TR. I think I’ll do the Climbing Road Race in Speciality Phase next. They recommend a week or two more of active recovery before starting this. I chose the climbing program purely because there’s a good mix of sustained aerobic work, but it’s also peppered with interesting sprints and other fun looking interim drills. 

I have noticed that my heart rate drops between 3-5 BPM when I use the aero bars. I assume this is because there is more of my body in a lower position , so there is less effort involved for the heart to pump blood around. Would that be right?


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Feb 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Final week of active recovery in my Build Phase on TR. I think I’ll do the Climbing Road Race in Speciality Phase next. They recommend a week or two more of active recovery before starting this. I chose the climbing program purely because there’s a good mix of sustained aerobic work, but it’s also peppered with interesting sprints and other fun looking interim drills.
> 
> I have noticed that my heart rate drops between 3-5 BPM when I use the aero bars. I assume this is because there is more of my body in a lower position , so there is less effort involved for the heart to pump blood around. Would that be right?



Hard to say, you are more aero, so less effort to maintain the speed you were doing? If you have a power meter you could try pedalling at the same power in different positions and see what the heart rate does. Maybe something to try on turbo to start?


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## Heltor Chasca (5 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Hard to say, you are more aero, so less effort to maintain the speed you were doing? If you have a power meter you could try pedalling at the same power in different positions and see what the heart rate does. Maybe something to try on turbo to start?



Doh. Sorry, my bad. This observation was on the turbo.


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## HLaB (7 Feb 2019)

My coach set my FTP to 304w (4.7 w/ kg) and I really felt it after last night's (Tuesdays) session. My heart rate /perceived effort seems to be corresponding better though. Must still, a day later, have the adrenaline flowing round my system, I can't sleep. Tomorrow's (Thursday ) session will be interesting if I can get away from work in time. If not it'll be an unstructured commute.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Feb 2019)

FTP test today. FTP up 10% and weight down 5%. FTP is now 2.86W / kg so has climbed nicely. End of early base, late base next, so will be interesting how much I can raise it during my main build phases. Steady progress. Might have to raise my 3W / kg target at this rate.


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## Nebulous (10 Feb 2019)

Five weeks from yesterday is my first audax of the year. I still haven't done another ftp test, but zwift has increased their estimate of my ftp. It has gone 200 (test) -> 218 -> 224 -> 235 since early December. Weight stubbornly refusing to shift. Working away and some family meals haven't helped, so I've only lost 1kilo since Christmas. 

On the positive side I'm working more consistently than I've ever done. I've done at least 4 sessions a week since early November, generally 5. I do one workout which is 80 minutes at 70% of FTP and even though the wattage has increased as my FTP has increased my average heartrate is still the same, with less upward drift towards the end. 

Going to try to build up distance / time now over the next two weeks, hopefully with some decent outside rides. Did 2 hours on the turbo yesterday, which is my longest indoor session yet.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Feb 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Five weeks from yesterday is my first audax of the year. I still haven't done another ftp test, but zwift has increased their estimate of my ftp. It has gone 200 (test) -> 218 -> 224 -> 235 since early December. Weight stubbornly refusing to shift. Working away and some family meals haven't helped, so I've only lost 1kilo since Christmas.
> 
> On the positive side I'm working more consistently than I've ever done. I've done at least 4 sessions a week since early November, generally 5. I do one workout which is 80 minutes at 70% of FTP and even though the wattage has increased as my FTP has increased my average heartrate is still the same, with less upward drift towards the end.
> 
> Going to try to build up distance / time now over the next two weeks, hopefully with some decent outside rides. Did 2 hours on the turbo yesterday, which is my longest indoor session yet.



I prefer repeatable tests rather than estimates. Gives me a solid belief in the intensity of the intervals in the workouts I am doing.


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Feb 2019)

How do you compare to the pros?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP1G7FUz8nk


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgovwyMhV50


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Feb 2019)

First workout tonight with new FTP values. Next phase of training as well so durations / intensities have gone up. Managed hold it , really tough, but doable. New max heart rate hit tonight. Recovery tomorrow which coincides with dentist, so nicely fitted together.

Only annoying bit was I found out the turbo roller was too loose on the wheel after I had done the warm up. So recalibrated turbo and restarted workout with some more warm up time.


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## Ming the Merciless (12 Feb 2019)

Well yesterday's effort has put my resting HR and HRV in the red according to my App. It is what I thought and it is recommending recovery today. Just what I had planned. So an easy walk at lunch time it is, once dentist out of the way.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2019)

Not fully recovered yet so did some endurance zone riding today instead of lactate threshold intervals. Will do the lactate intervals tomorrow all being well. Then a long outdoor ride on Sunday to get back up towards Audax distances.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Feb 2019)

Interesting article on detaining 

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-much-down-time-is-too-much-the-concept-of-detr/


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Feb 2019)

Manage to hit the delayed intervals today. An extra day makes all the difference after a hard workout.


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## mattobrien (14 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Interesting article on *detaining *
> 
> https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-much-down-time-is-too-much-the-concept-of-detr/



Talk about disappointing - I was looking forward to reading an article about how to apprehend and confine people and all I got was an article about become less fit if you don't train


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## Ming the Merciless (14 Feb 2019)

mattobrien said:


> Talk about disappointing - I was looking forward to reading an article about how to apprehend and confine people and all I got was an article about become less fit if you don't train



You detain them in their pain cave.


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## mattobrien (14 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> You detain them in their pain cave.


I do seem to have been confined to the cave for quite some time now. Maybe one day I will actually cycle outside. It will be interesting to see what my indoor / outdoor ratio is this year.


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## Nebulous (17 Feb 2019)

After working all winter on the turbo the weather has turned a bit warmer and I've suddenly realised it's only 4 weeks until my first audax. I've turned up the effort a bit and have done 260km this week. I'm pleased with the fact that half of that was outdoors.

A 52 mile ride today, into a 23 mile an hour headwind. At one point I was struggling to hold 15 km an hour on the flat. Ended up with an average of 14.1mph. 

You don't get that on zwift!


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## Ming the Merciless (17 Feb 2019)

Nebulous said:


> After working all winter on the turbo the weather has turned a bit warmer and I've suddenly realised it's only 4 weeks until my first audax. I've turned up the effort a bit and have done 260km this week. I'm pleased with the fact that half of that was outdoors.
> 
> A 52 mile ride today, into a 23 mile an hour headwind. At one point I was struggling to hold 15 km an hour on the flat. Ended up with an average of 14.1mph.
> 
> You don't get that on zwift!



Yes indeed, I nipped out today for 200km. It was not meant to be that long but after a good day with no mechanicals I extended it a bit towards the end. Like you first Audax in four weeks. Feel a bit better about getting back up to distance now.


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## CXRAndy (18 Feb 2019)

Nebulous said:


> A 52 mile ride today, into a 23 mile an hour headwind. At one point I was struggling to hold 15 km an hour on the flat. Ended up with an average of 14.1mph



You went the wrong way, you could of had a 28mph ave with a 23mph tailwind


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## Nebulous (18 Feb 2019)

CXRAndy said:


> You went the wrong way, you could of had a 28mph ave with a 23mph tailwind



I usually do a loop, or out and back, but unfortunately I was away for the weekend and decided to bike home - so it had to be point to point. A bit of climbing as well, though the open tops were more strenuous than going up the hills.


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## Ming the Merciless (19 Feb 2019)

Aerobic decoupling has dropped to 5.7% from the original 10% at the start of January. A good sign that the aerobic base is nearing completion and that I will be ready to start my build phases soon. The books I have recommned it drops below 5% before you move onto the next stage of training.


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## Heltor Chasca (19 Feb 2019)

I’m having a nice easy couple of weeks of active recovery, mainly doing endurance work with little drills to keep me from falling asleep. Hour long, easy sessions almost daily as I am not cycling on the school run as it’s half term. Rest day on Sundays.

Deciding whether or not I should do a third active recover week as work is very physical at the moment. Trees and hedges mainly. Some hard digging too. Must be good core strength work surely?


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Feb 2019)

Did my delayed V02 Max intervals today. Warm up, 5 x 3 min at Vo2 max, 3 min recoveries, Cool down. They almost killed me last week at the new intensities. Seemed to handle them better today but boy am I glad when I reach the cool down period.

I put all the data into Golden Cheetah and it estimates that my V02 Max has climbed 13% since beginning of Jan which is excellent news.


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## HLaB (20 Feb 2019)

My coach has put me on a commute only rest week before a FTP test next week.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Feb 2019)

Cycling & suffering - a special relationship http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/47278392


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Feb 2019)

HLaB said:


> My coach has put me on a commute only rest week before a FTP test next week.



How long you had a coach and how has it changed your training?


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## HLaB (21 Feb 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> How long you had a coach and how has it changed your training?


Since I started structured training. 2015 I think I joined him for his Mallorca 312 trip. I think before I never really trained, I just rode (I did do club training rides but more for the company). A change in my work patterns saw me stick with it (no time for mid week rides other than commutes). I saw big leaps in my TT'ing subsequently which also helped me stick to the plan. I guess I ride less (though probably still too much ) but get more focused sessions in which deliver results


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## Ming the Merciless (22 Feb 2019)

Delayed my intervals after long ride last weekend. Now caught up and ready for a nice long ride to meet a mate at country pub tomorrow. Maybe first time in shorts this year.


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## Ming the Merciless (26 Feb 2019)

V02 Max work this morning before the day warmed up. I am not great working out at those levels if it is warm. Hit all the numbers at lower max heart rates than previous weeks, so a sign that my V02 Max is climbing. I have also found the option to get Golden Cheetah to estimate the power for my long rides where I do not have a power meter. Means my TSB figure includes these rides and I can get a better idea of whether I am overdoing it, rather than just having a bit of residual fatigue. Charts were not reflecting how I felt (after the long rides), but now they are. Just over a week till my next recovery and testing week. Had to shift the workouts around recently to get adequate recovery from long outdoor rides I am now doing. Managing to hit the overall intensities and volume in the plan. Happy so far with progress.

Also read an interesting study last night where they were monitoring changes in the body following high intensity workouts. They found that the body continues to make adaptions for up to 5 days after high intensity workouts and then you need to do some more high intensity to keep it going. That makes sense of what I have read elsewhere that you can maintain certain fitness markers with a short high intensity workouts once or twice a week but you need to do more than that to improve fitness.


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## HLaB (1 Mar 2019)

I don't think that rest week done me any good. I ended up 15w down on my previous FTP and 23w down on my best 20 min . I completely paced it wrong an found my self sprinting when it was too late :-\ A bit of a uncomfortable stomach before I started but I think my lack of motivation and bad pacing were bigger factors


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Mar 2019)

HLaB said:


> I don't think that rest week done me any good. I ended up 15w down on my previous FTP and 23w down on my best 20 min . I completely paced it wrong an found my self sprinting when it was too late :-\ A bit of a uncomfortable stomach before I started but I think my lack of motivation and bad pacing were bigger factors



Rough. Start again next week. I’m new to this whole structured training and used to take my FTP tests seriously but I discovered if I made everything as ideal as possible (resting a day or two before, hydrating, fuelling, room temp, nice shorts etc) I was just conning myself the actual training would be the same.

So now I just get on with it regardless of life’s vagaries. Sure I would be happier with a higher FTP number but then I would just compromise the quality of my workouts for 8 weeks. Before when I have achieved a higher FTP than would be normal, I have found myself dialing back the intensity of a workout in ERG mode by up to 20% because it’s just too hard. Once or twice I haven’t been able to finish a workout. I would rather complete the workouts with efficient pedal strokes, by breathing properly and doing the drills gracefully. Better this than thrashing about like a fish at the bottom of a boat.


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## mattobrien (2 Mar 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I would rather complete the workouts with efficient pedal strokes, by breathing properly and doing the drills gracefully.



I am not entirely sure training is supposed to work like that. Well mine doesn’t at least, but then we may be training for different purposes. 

Good luck with your plan


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Mar 2019)

mattobrien said:


> I am not entirely sure training is supposed to work like that. Well mine doesn’t at least, but then we may be training for different purposes.
> 
> Good luck with your plan



I am mindful that I want to instill good pedal, breathing and drill techniques. If I am on the cusp of blowing up and simply ‘surviving’ the workout, I’m not going to be concentrating on quality training. 

That’s how I view it for my purposes. How do you suggest traning works?


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Mar 2019)

mattobrien said:


> I am not entirely sure training is supposed to work like that. Well mine doesn’t at least, but then we may be training for different purposes.
> 
> Good luck with your plan



Depends, if you are consistently failing to complete your workouts then I would say your intensity settings are wrong. Mentally if I consistently failed to complete the workouts then I would be a bit demoralised. If you fail only occasionally then the intensity is probably about right.

I generally know during the warm up whether it is happening for me or not. If I think I need another recovery day then I will bin the intervals and do a lower intensity endurance day. Then try the high intensity stuff a day later. So far I am managing yo hit my prescribed workout each week. My power outputs are rising steadily, so it is working for me.


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## mattobrien (2 Mar 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I am mindful that I want to instill good pedal, breathing and drill techniques. If I am on the cusp of blowing up and simply ‘surviving’ the workout, I’m not going to be concentrating on quality training.
> 
> That’s how I view it for my purposes. How do you suggest traning works?


Training for me works on the basis I do whatever has been set for me by my coach. No ifs, no buts, just get on with it and do it. 

Not having to think what to do or whether I am up for it is great, it removes the can I be bothered or do I feel up for it, I just have to do it. 

Sadly the Velominati website is down currently soho can’t exactly quote which rule it is, but the theme is free your mind and your legs will follow. 

Tired legs are just electrical signals sent to the brain, if you can ignore it, then you’d be surprised what you go on and do.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Mar 2019)

Interesting read 

https://web.archive.org/web/20071015044756/http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Mar 2019)

Smashed my VO2 Max intervals out the park today which suggests it has risen substantially since the intensities were set. End of this week I enter a recovery and retest week. Looking forward to finding out what my new power numbers are. Then I move into the next phase of my training.


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## Nebulous (5 Mar 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Interesting read
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20071015044756/http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm



In addition to that definition of efficiency I was surprised on my first audax at the economy of movement from the regulars. Freewheeling down any slope, spinning in a low gear to climb, rather than sprinting for the brow, as happens on a club run. Even not venturing far from their bike at a food stop.


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## tom73 (5 Mar 2019)

Well after finishing 1st ftp builder and with stuff getting in way for most of last week. I thought right no getting away from it so just down 1st ftp test boy I felt it. lord knows what next door think with all the arrrr's going on . Came down stairs looking a total reck looking for some word of support. Mrs 73 took one look and said I've no sympathy your choice to do it. Thanks darling  

Ended with 190 don't know to be happy or not.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Mar 2019)

tom73 said:


> Well after finishing 1st ftp builder and with stuff getting in way for most of last week. I thought right no getting away from it so just down 1st ftp test boy I felt it. lord knows what next door think with all the arrrr's going on . Came down stairs looking a total reck looking for some word of support. Mrs 73 took one look and said I've no sympathy your choice to do it. Thanks darling
> 
> Ended with 190 don't know to be happy or not.



It is your start point. Now after another four weeks you can test your FTP again to see how much it has improved by. If it does not improve then you review the workouts and amount you are doing. Don't forget VO2 Max intervals as well as that will create more headroom for your FTP to climb into.


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## HLaB (5 Mar 2019)

Too late leaving work tonight and I didn't think I had enough time after a turbo session to calm down before bed so I opted for a few intervals on the commute zone 4 was easy enough but I was too cautious in the dark and wet and didn't push my self hard enough to get in to zone 5 :-/


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## HLaB (6 Mar 2019)

I'm going to be shattered tomorrow. I left work on time and took a very gentle wind assisted commute to save my legs for an interval session on the turbo. I ended up 14w up on my ftp. Feeling it now in the legs but not tired enough in the head


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Mar 2019)

Interesting read on lactate threshold

https://www.peakendurancesport.com/...e-threshold-will-improve-fitness-performance/


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Mar 2019)

Now done my final turbo sessions of this training period. Another one that was much easier than four weeks ago. A few recovery days now then next time on turbo will be a FTP test. My numbers have to be up, it is just a question of how much.


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## mattobrien (8 Mar 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Now done my final turbo sessions of this training period. Another one that was much easier than four weeks ago. A few recovery days now then next time on turbo will be a FTP test. My numbers have to be up, it is just a question of how much.


Good luck with your FTP and be sure to let us know how you get on.

I can't even begin to think when my training period ends


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Mar 2019)

mattobrien said:


> Good luck with your FTP and be sure to let us know how you get on.
> 
> I can't even begin to think when my training period ends



It is only the end of this training period not the end of training. As in periodisation of training. Next period will start in just over a week.


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## Nebulous (10 Mar 2019)

Less than a week to go until my first audax. I've had 4 rest days this week, the most I've had since November. I've also done 100 miles outdoors, with rain, hail, 40 mph winds and today thick snow. A good opportunity to check out my bike and clothing as well as how I'm doing myself. There's a possibility of snow for my 200 next week.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Mar 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Less than a week to go until my first audax. I've had 4 rest days this week, the most I've had since November. I've also done 100 miles outdoors, with rain, hail, 40 mph winds and today thick snow. A good opportunity to check out my bike and clothing as well as how I'm doing myself. There's a possibility of snow for my 200 next week.



Which 200?


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## Nebulous (10 Mar 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Which 200?


Monster munch. From Duffus near Elgin to Carrbridge / Loch Ness / Inverness. 

The forecast has improved slightly now, but Carrbridge is still looking at snow the night before.


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## HLaB (11 Mar 2019)

Annoyingly structured training is probably gonna to have to take the back seat again. My stomach camera scan came through for tomorrow. I was a bit flat at the weekend but hopefully that was just because I had it on the mind.


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## tom73 (11 Mar 2019)

@HLaB


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## Ming the Merciless (11 Mar 2019)

FTP test completed this afternoon. I was enjoying it till halfway through then it was a case of focusing on the next minute then the next one after that as the hurt kicked in more and more.

Result is FTP has climbed from 219 to 235 watts during February's training phase. So a 7% uplift and my weight has gone from 77kg to 76kg. That brings my power to weight at FTP to 3.1W/Kg. That was my target for PBP in August. Gains will likely decrease each period but now wondering if 3.5W/kg is a possibility by the summer.

Might try ramp test on Wed as comparison. Got a 200km Audax on Sat as a PBP qualifier. Then next period of training from next Monday. Last month the volume was VO2 Max intervals and low intensity. Focus now switching volume to Threshold in next four week block.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Mar 2019)

Interesting read

https://www.peakendurancesport.com/...us-training-master-stroke-endurance-athletes/


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Mar 2019)

No ramp test today will do some recovery spinning. Need to save my energies for the forecast winds at the weekend.


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## Nebulous (14 Mar 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> No ramp test today will do some recovery spinning. Need to save my energies for the forecast winds at the weekend.



I have a yellow weather warning for snow now.


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## Heltor Chasca (14 Mar 2019)

Nebulous said:


> I have a yellow weather warning for snow now.



Read as a ‘yellow snow warning’.


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## HLaB (14 Mar 2019)

Didn't think I'd get any training in this week but I did and it went surprisingly well last night and some gentle recovery sessions tonight too  I did make the mistake of doing last night's session at a high cadence when it was supposed to be done at a medium cadence. High cadence sessions do seem to work better for me at the moment anyway


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## Nebulous (16 Mar 2019)

Well that was tough. Snow, sleet, rain and quite strong winds. I did about 206km in less than 10 hours total. I'm definitely fitter than I was at the same point last year. Still some way to go though. 

My Garmin packed in about 3/4s of the way round, which is quite annoying. It isn't very old and has been well looked after.


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## tom73 (16 Mar 2019)

Tough evening turbo session felt good though. Made it all wroth it by the 2 pieces of fly cake after that mrs 73 bought me.


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## HLaB (16 Mar 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Well that was tough. Snow, sleet, rain and quite strong winds. I did about 206km in less than 10 hours total. I'm definitely fitter than I was at the same point last year. Still some way to go though.
> 
> My Garmin packed in about 3/4s of the way round, which is quite annoying. It isn't very old and has been well looked after.


Well done I was gutted when I done the LBL after 63miles of torrential rain my Garmin died but luckily I had a back up gps to record the last 105miles. I still have to figure out how to furness the first 63 miles though


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## JhnBssll (16 Mar 2019)

This mornings club ride was called off due to the high winds so I decided to do a session on the turbo. For reasons unknown I chose a 2hr10min SST session, certainly my longest session to date. In hindsight I think braving the wind would have been easier


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## Nebulous (17 Mar 2019)

HLaB said:


> Well done I was gutted when I done the LBL after 63miles of torrential rain my Garmin died but luckily I had a back up gps to record the last 105miles. I still have to figure out how to furness the first 63 miles though
> View attachment 457799



Did the Garmin recover? I've invested a lot in Garmins of various sorts, but this one is really annoying me.


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## HLaB (17 Mar 2019)

Nebulous said:


> Did the Garmin recover? I've invested a lot in Garmins of various sorts, but this one is really annoying me.


Nope, it was at the end of its life, so I'd been carrying a 200 for a while (it doesn't show metrics but it was better than nothing). I had recovered the 800 several times before but it was completely dead this time.


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## JhnBssll (17 Mar 2019)

Time for a Hammerhead Karoo then?


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## HLaB (17 Mar 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> Time for a Hammerhead Karoo then?


Too late for me, I upgraded to a 1000 after that and my back up/tt computer is now the smaller 130. I thought about the Wahoo Bolt for a while.


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## Ming the Merciless (20 Mar 2019)

Epic Sat 200 out in those winds. Recovery ride done and will get back on the intervals tomorrow. Got a hilly outdoor ride planned for weekend.


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Mar 2019)

Started intervals at new intensities thus lunchtime but stopped after 30 mins as head not in the game. Tried again tonight and got the session completed successfully. Shows how important the head is when you are working at intensities that hurt for longer than you would wish.


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## Nebulous (22 Mar 2019)

HLaB said:


> Nope, it was at the end of its life, so I'd been carrying a 200 for a while (it doesn't show metrics but it was better than nothing). I had recovered the 800 several times before but it was completely dead this time.



My one is a 1000, about 2 years old. It hasn't come back, if it does start it does a few minutes and then closes down. After toing and froing by email with no success I phoned them yesterday. They seem to think it is water damage and have agreed to swap it for a reconditioned one. I'm delighted with that.


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## Ming the Merciless (25 Mar 2019)

Well the same workout as Thursday and my heart rate max and average are 13 bpm lower for the same power outputs. My HRV App said light exercise Thursday and said go for it today. Maybe it is right after all about the stress my body is under and therefore what kind of exercise I should or should not do in my training each day. The intervals felt good today, all under control, felt strong.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Mar 2019)

Vo2 Max intervals at new intensities. Phew that was hard, 94% of Max HR reached.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Mar 2019)

Big ride on Saturday (305km) Full rest on Sunday, school run (17km) on Monday and Tuesday.

Wasn’t quite functional for a Vo2 Max session so settled with sweet spot for an hour. I feel ok considering.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Big ride on Saturday (305km) Full rest on Sunday, school run (17km) on Monday and Tuesday.
> 
> Wasn’t quite functional for a Vo2 Max session so settled with sweet spot for an hour. I feel ok considering.



This is why they emphasise to go easy on your easy days, so you can go hard on your hard days. Bit hard to do when fitting Audax in as well. I have a 100km event on Sunday which I intend to soft pedal in lower zone 2 with plenty of cake at stops. Got all day and nice to take it easy rather than push on like I typically do on longer audaxes.


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## Ming the Merciless (28 Mar 2019)

Long steady state effort today. Got some bar extensions I am trying out for PBP so was trying out positions using them. Too high first time, too low second time. Will have another fettle tomorrow with proper outing on Sunday's 100km.


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Apr 2019)

Legs still a bit sore from long hard ride on Sunday. Will do any easy ride in rain tomorrow then back on intervals on Wednesday.


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## Nebulous (2 Apr 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Legs still a bit sore from long hard ride on Sunday. Will do any easy ride in rain tomorrow then back on intervals on Wednesday.



What happened to the soft pedalling with lots of cake? 

I've been feeling quite fatigued for the last week. I think I may have had a virus, dialled back the effort a bit. It seems to be finally shifting. I've a 300 in less than two weeks.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2019)

Nebulous said:


> What happened to the soft pedalling with lots of cake?
> 
> I've been feeling quite fatigued for the last week. I think I may have had a virus, dialled back the effort a bit. It seems to be finally shifting. I've a 300 in less than two weeks.



Turned into "Let's see if we can get to the halfway control first". After that we had a good feed but we kept the speed up for some reason.


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Apr 2019)

Active recovery week for me with a few sprints thrown in for good measure by TR. I like those. Then it’s another 4 weeks of graft proceeded by an FTP test. 

Really feeling the benefit of Trainer Road. Love it. It scratches an itch I have that I didn’t know I had.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Active recovery week for me with a few sprints thrown in for good measure by TR. I like those. Then it’s another 4 weeks of graft proceeded by an FTP test.
> 
> Really feeling the benefit of Trainer Road. Love it. It scratches an itch I have that I didn’t know I had.



Two more weeks till I hit a rest and retest week. At the end of that I have the Easter Arrow then my PBP 300 a week after that. Fettling my bike with PBP compliant bar extensions at moment. Just fitted pipe lagging to my handlebars to act as arm rests when on extensions, without taking up too much space. So can still hold handlebars in usual positions when not on extensions. Turbo is good place to practice the positioning before trying changes out on road.


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## Heltor Chasca (2 Apr 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Two more weeks till I hit a rest and retest week. At the end of that I have the Easter Arrow then my PBP 300 a week after that. Fettling my bike with PBP compliant bar extensions at moment. Just fitted pipe lagging to my handlebars to act as arm rests when on extensions, without taking up too much space. So can still hold handlebars in usual positions when not on extensions. Turbo is good place to practice the positioning before trying changes out on road.



I use my turbo as my laboratory too. Just used it to ensure my indexing was nice and sweet. It will stretch out the cables too. I would be really interested in seeing photos of your stubby set up. I use my aero bars a lot as I am often solo. Maybe I am over reliant and it worries me that you can’t have the full monty on PBP, so I sense I may need stubbies by 2023. Long plan faffer Extraordinaire.


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## Jerry Atrik (2 Apr 2019)

Just took two ramp tests on TR on consecutive days after my first 6 weeks . 
My first test I took in my tt position and my FTP came out exactly the same as I had been training in for the last six weeks .
I was really upset with this as not showing any improvement then realised I had took my first test sitting up so tried again the next day with a 22 watts improvement .
It's not much after 6 weeks but will perciiver.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> I use my turbo as my laboratory too. Just used it to ensure my indexing was nice and sweet. It will stretch out the cables too. I would be really interested in seeing photos of your stubby set up. I use my aero bars a lot as I am often solo. Maybe I am over reliant and it worries me that you can’t have the full monty on PBP, so I sense I may need stubbies by 2023. Long plan faffer Extraordinaire.



Will share photos when done. Need to order some bar tape, then should be able to finish setup.


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## Ming the Merciless (2 Apr 2019)

65km of easy riding on recumbent today. Turbo session scheduled tomorrow afternoon. Try out latest bar setup.


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## Ming the Merciless (3 Apr 2019)

Threshold intervals today. My HRV App scored me a perfect 10 in other words go for it. Didn't feel like it in morning despite what app said so did them this evening. Nailed the session so pleased with that. VO2 Max on Friday then a low intensity long ride on Sat. Next week is final week before rest and test then build 2 phase starts. Will get some walking in tomorrow in the forecast rain.

Edited to add that cleat bolt came out mid session but cleat managed to stay attached if a little up and down / loose at top of pedal stroke.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Apr 2019)

Just remembered have not sorted out cleats. Best do that before VO2 Max intervals tomorrow.


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## Ming the Merciless (5 Apr 2019)

Vo2 Max intervals done and nailed them. I was not looking forward to this workout as when I did them at the new intensities last week I struggled. My body is clearly adapting to the intervals well. Heart rate lower and power higher this week.


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2019)

@Heltor Chasca Here is a picture of my PBP compliant bar extensions. The pipe lagging is 9mm thick so about three times the best bar tape. Makes for a comfy arm rest without taking up same space as modern tri bar arm rests. The pipe lagging foam is wrapped in no tear clear tape typically used to seal boxes. So bit of waterproofing / protection from my sweat.







I will be getting more bar tape. The new bar tape will go on bars and I will put some of the old bar tape on the extensions. The photo is from this morning when I was testing out the position. Nice and comfy and stable, and takes weight off the hands nicely. More aero than hoods but not as aero as modern full length tri bars. Main aim for me is additional comfortable hand positions on the long audaxes.


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## Heltor Chasca (6 Apr 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> @Heltor Chasca Here is a picture of my PBP compliant bar extensions. The pipe lagging is 9mm thick so about three times the best bar tape. Makes for a comfy arm rest without taking up same space as modern tri bar arm rests. The pipe lagging foam is wrapped in no tear clear tape typically used to seal boxes. So bit of waterproofing / protection from my sweat.
> 
> View attachment 461077
> 
> ...



Much appreciated. Thank you. And if you can play flute or pan pipes, that’s your in ride entertainment sorted...


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## Ming the Merciless (6 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Much appreciated. Thank you. And if you can play flute or pan pipes, that’s your in ride entertainment sorted...



They only weigh 190g, so lighter than modern carbon fibre stubbies.


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## JhnBssll (7 Apr 2019)

I tried the ramp test on Zwift today after a rest week and achieved an FTP of 251W. I'm pretty pleased with that, my previous score was 235 around 6 weeks ago


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2019)

JhnBssll said:


> I tries the ramp test on Zwift today after a rest week and achieved an FTP of 251W. I'm pretty pleased with that, my previous score was 235 around 6 weeks ago



Strangely enough 235w is where my FTP was four weeks ago. I am hoping to hit 250w at my next retest next week. I know it is up, just a question of how much. Truth will tell next week.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Much appreciated. Thank you. And if you can play flute or pan pipes, that’s your in ride entertainment sorted...



It's the wrong make otherwise I could have played the flight of the condor


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## Nebulous (7 Apr 2019)

I probably should do a proper ftp test. It never seems to fit with everything else I'm doing. Hit my best 5 second power earlier this week, averaged 244 watts over 45 minutes yesterday, then did 52 miles outside today with 700 metres of climb in 2 hours 51 minutes. On my steel audax bike with guards as well, not my carbon race bike. So it certainly feels as though the work I've put in is showing some benefits. 

I've a 300km audax on Saturday, so an FTP test this week wouldn't be sensible.


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## Ming the Merciless (8 Apr 2019)

Hit my threshold session today. Session of VO2 Max and aerobic threshold long ride to do then I enter my rest and test week.


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## Heltor Chasca (9 Apr 2019)

New FTP day today. 3.29 FTP/kg which is a scruffy number that I would have liked to round up. However I was about to faint on the trainer, so not today I’m afraid. But to me that represents a 4.6% improvement which I am very pleased with.

I blame the long hours spent on Audax rides, a couple of faster, short, leg opening club rides at the weekend and AC/DC while doing the test.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> New FTP day today. 3.29 FTP/kg which is a scruffy number that I would have liked to round up. However I was about to faint on the trainer, so not today I’m afraid. But to me that represents a 4.6% improvement which I am very pleased with.
> 
> I blame the long hours spent on Audax rides, a couple of faster, short, leg opening club rides at the weekend and AC/DC while doing the test.



Steady increase. We'd all like the big increases each retest but apart from when you first start structured training most increases will be increments similar to what you have achieved.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2019)

VO2 Max intervals completed today. Easy long ride tomorrow then rest week before retest so I can reset the pain gauge.


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## Heltor Chasca (10 Apr 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> VO2 Max intervals completed today. Easy long ride tomorrow then rest week before retest so I can reset the pain gauge.



Are you doing the Dorset Coast on Sunday?


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Are you doing the Dorset Coast on Sunday?



No, but the weather looks fairly neutral for your ride. That will be a good test of your legs and fitness.


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## Ming the Merciless (10 Apr 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Are you doing the Dorset Coast on Sunday?



I have Easter Arrow a week on Friday so want to be rested for that.


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## Ming the Merciless (13 Apr 2019)

@Heltor Chasca The extension bars now have the old bar tape on them and the main bars new tape. Tried the arms rests either side of stem but that would require an unusual arm position for the rests. So arm rest are back out wider which is a more natural position.


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## Nebulous (15 Apr 2019)

Completed Alston and Back 300 on Saturday. Tough day, temperature down to -6 at one point and quite a headwind on way out. Water bottles froze solid. Less than 2 weeks to go to a 400.


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## Ming the Merciless (15 Apr 2019)

New FTP of 251 watts. I did the ramp test as I didn't want to take any fatigue from a 20 min test into the Easter Arrow this Friday. First time I have done the ramp test and must say I quite liked it. No need to guess an intensity and try and pace it for 20 mins. It only hurt for the last 4-5 mins of hanging on.

Easter Arrow this Friday then my PBP 300 the weekend after. Will try a workout at new intensities on Mon or Tue next week once the 400km plus of Arrow are out of the legs.


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## Ming the Merciless (9 May 2019)

With PBP 300km qualifier safely out the way back on turbo during the week. Got my 400km qualifier in 9 days so will ease back a bit next week to be fresh. Two week gap then 600km qualifier. Will go by how recovered I feel after 400 but the qualifiers are the important but right now. I can push my fitness a bit more for PBP once qualifiers finished.


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## Heltor Chasca (25 Jun 2019)

Bum. Having completed a ‘Speciality Phase’ on TrainerRoad, my latest FTP shows I’ve lost nearly 5% fitness. (4 week hiatus) Chest faction that I got rid of fairly quickly too. I also ‘feel’ fat although about the same weight.

Doing the Half Triathlon build phase now. It’ll be interesting to see how quickly I get back to my last FTP.


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## Nebulous (26 Jun 2019)

I've had a bad cold, coughing up loads of gunk for over a week since my 600. Had very little planned anyway as my SR was complete. Now I have an entry for PBP I need to pick it up and plan my next few weeks.


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## huwsparky (27 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Bum. Having completed a ‘Speciality Phase’ on TrainerRoad, my latest FTP shows I’ve lost nearly 5% fitness. (4 week hiatus) Chest faction that I got rid of fairly quickly too. I also ‘feel’ fat although about the same weight.
> 
> Doing the Half Triathlon build phase now. It’ll be interesting to see how quickly I get back to my last FTP.


Are you starting out in Tri now? If so I wouldn't worry too much about getting back to your FTP. Just concentrating on getting your power back on the bike isn't necessarily your best way of shaving time off your 70.3 time. Your Tri training should be scheduled depending on what your strength and weaknesses are.


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## Heltor Chasca (27 Jun 2019)

huwsparky said:


> Are you starting out in Tri now?...



No. I just fancy a slight variety in the workout structure and the Tri workouts looked suitable. To be frank, I’m happiest when my general fitness is good. Being a full value Audax rider I am not 100% reliant on specificity. I could also do with shifting the extra fatty tissue I gained. I doubt it was muscle. That’s my hunch and also what the bathroom scales suggest. It measures bone mass and water too.


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## huwsparky (27 Jun 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> No. I just fancy a slight variety in the workout structure and the Tri workouts looked suitable. To be frank, I’m happiest when my general fitness is good. Being a full value Audax rider I am not 100% reliant on specificity. I could also do with shifting the extra fatty tissue I gained. I doubt it was muscle. That’s my hunch and also what the bathroom scales suggest. It measures bone mass and water too.


You'll feel lighter on your feet throwing some run training in, I can guarantee you that much. If you're not a runner don't set yourself any milage targets as it's not quite the same as cycling, you'll screw yourself over before you know it. Best thing I did was learning to run properly.


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## Andy in Germany (27 Jun 2019)

That's where I would struggle with Tri: my knees are smegged up and I can't swim...

This means more cycling. Imagine the hardship...


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Jul 2019)

Now qualified for PBP got on turbo first thing this morning. Did a FTP test and as suspected it dropped whilst I completed my 400 and 600 qualifiers. Now going to mix hill work with turbo to give fitness a boost ahead of PBP.


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## Nebulous (8 Jul 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> Now qualified for PBP got on turbo first thing this morning. Did a FTP test and as suspected it dropped whilst I completed my 400 and 600 qualifiers. Now going to mix hill work with turbo to give fitness a boost ahead of PBP.



I've struggled a bit coming out of my 600. Had a bad cold, coughing up heaps of gunk and didn't do much for two weeks. There is a lot of learning there for me - listen to my own body, not other people (some people I know were doing back-to-back 600s.) At my age recovery will take longer than for somebody younger. 

I did a ramp test almost a week ago and my ftp has dropped as well, 239 down from 260. 

I spend my weekends 50 miles away, so for the last 3 weeks I've been cycling one way, doing a fast 50, or 52 miles, trying to add some speed. That is going well, I can sustain a high intensity effor for close on 3 hours. I'm thinking about trying my club TT this week as well, work and weather allowing. That will be my first 10 for about 6 years. 

I've mixed views about any long rides before PBP. Within the next two weeks I'm doing a diy 200, but may not do any longer distances than that before PBP. One possibility would be two rides on consecutive days, so possibly two 150s. 

PBP is getting scarily close.


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## Heltor Chasca (17 Jul 2019)

An hour on Vo2 max intervals....In SPD sandals


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## Ming the Merciless (21 Jul 2019)

Heltor Chasca said:


> An hour on Vo2 max intervals....In SPD sandals



You must be pleased with a new VO2max at 25 watts


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## Heltor Chasca (21 Jul 2019)

YukonBoy said:


> You must be pleased with a new VO2max at 25 watts



I’m thinking all the research on having cooler feet and hands really is true. This is a massive jump in my performance.


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## Jerry Atrik (26 Nov 2019)

After almost 6 months of the bike I’ve decided to knuckle down , winter miles summer smiles and all that .
Started TrainerRoad base 6 week mid 1and the ramp test brought me to a miserly 167.
Carried on with this and found it far to easy.
After 6 weeks I decided to start again , took the ramp test and got up to 221 and a power to weight ratio of 3:08.
The effort was far more taxing but manageable.
6 weeks on and have taken the ramp test again today for sweet spot mid 2 and have risen another 40 watts to 261 and power to weight up to 3:69.
Starting to feel the benefits out on the road as well as dropping 4lbs in the last six weeks.


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## HLaB (27 Nov 2019)

With things that went on this year for me I'm quite satisfied with my 2019 Training. I dropped my training FTP by 50w (to 255w, 4.25w/kg) when the chemo started. It seems to have helped me speedwise although my power has went down and it helped me get through. I started the season pre chemo at a race derived FTP of 309w (4.9w/kg, if I have my post op weight right) and finished mid chemo at 266w (4.4w/kg having dropped a few kg). I felt pretty comfortable during that time and speed was fractionally up on the club's sporting course, I'm looking forward to pushing out of that comfort zone without fear of the consequences, however. My 20mins max has came down quite a bit after that but I've never done a sustained effort since the end of the tt season and on intervals its just 209w (an FTP of 199w, 3.3w/kg).


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## Ming the Merciless (1 Dec 2019)

Haven't used turbo since June. It was dusted down today. Got a ride today so will get back on turbo tomorrow. Apart from hills nothing hard for me for a while. Suspect FTP will have dropped to around 190W. That's ok plenty if time to bring it back up to around 260W by April.


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## Nebulous (6 Dec 2019)

I've achieved more than I expected this year with an SR and PBP. Started the year with FTP at 218, got it up to 260 and it has since dropped to 245ish. I seem to be doing enough to hold it, but with seasonal food and burning a bit less energy my weight is creeping up. 

I'm not sure whether to address that now or wait until after Christmas.


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## Dogtrousers (6 Dec 2019)

Bugger. Didn't get either of my planned sessions in this week. I blame my wife. She bought a new super comfy mattress. It was much easier getting up early when sleeping on the old sack of half bricks.


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## HLaB (10 Dec 2019)

HLaB said:


> With things that went on this year for me I'm quite satisfied with my 2019 Training. I dropped my training FTP by 50w (to 255w, 4.25w/kg) when the chemo started. It seems to have helped me speedwise although my power has went down and it helped me get through. I started the season pre chemo at a race derived FTP of 309w (4.9w/kg, if I have my post op weight right) and finished mid chemo at 266w (4.4w/kg having dropped a few kg). I felt pretty comfortable during that time and speed was fractionally up on the club's sporting course, I'm looking forward to pushing out of that comfort zone without fear of the consequences, however. My 20mins max has came down quite a bit after that but I've never done a sustained effort since the end of the tt season and on intervals its just 209w (an FTP of 199w, 3.3w/kg).


Just did my first sort of sustained effort. I got my schedule wrong and haven't had a break since last Wednesday, I was supposed to have a rest day before the test not battling a head wind  As a result my 20min best was only 261w (FTP 248w or 4.1w/kg). I'll hopefully get a few more watts when I do the test properly but I doubt it'll be as good as my test back in January, I've a long way to go. I also need to figure out this smart trainer the last 10 mins I dropped into 50-55rpm as it upped the resistance to achieve the target power range.


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## HLaB (12 Dec 2019)

I'll have to figure out a way I can read power off the Turbo untill I get my Power Meter back and follow a workout but not have the turbo go into ERG mode. On my mock FTP test I pedalled/grinder through but had no power tonight when I dropped into the 'spiral of death' 😕


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