# Improving fixed cadence



## fossala (20 Jan 2019)

I seem to be spinning out each day at around 160rpm on my commute. I want to increase to push my maximum speed downhill. Any tips on how to get faster, my main problem is smoothness once around 150-160rpm?


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## mcshroom (20 Jan 2019)

Fit a bigger gear and live with it on the uphills?

I've not ridden fixed much since I broke my arm doing it a few years ago, but what seemed to help me spin a bit quicker was to concentrate on pulling back/up on the lower pedal rather than pushing on the higher pedal. I found my knees felt less locked that way. Also a slightly lower saddle can help.


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## Soltydog (20 Jan 2019)

I've not rode fixed, but single speed & it's all about getting the right gear. No real hills round here, but the wind is a killer. On initial set up I was spinning out at close to 30mph , with a tail wind, but then riding back into the wind was a real killer. Dropped a couple of teeth on the rear cog & all's well, but still wouldn't fancy riding in any kind of wind


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## fossala (20 Jan 2019)

I can't gear up, I'm at 72" and live in a very hilly area. My commute peaks at 12%, has a 10% average for 1 mile and has around 1200ft climbing over 10miles.

I think I just need more practice, Rome wasn't built in a day...


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## Dave Davenport (20 Jan 2019)

I find getting low on the drops helps a lot,. How fast I can spin depends a lot on the state of the road surface and how straight the road is, on a 76" gear 160rpm is about my max unless it's a nice smooth surface and straight when I can manage about 180rpm.


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## smutchin (20 Jan 2019)

Practice. Practice. More practice.

You need to have the confidence to let go a bit and try to go with it. Keep pushing yourself and you'll find it gradually gets easier (though I don't believe anyone ever feels truly comfortable at 180rpm+ or can sustain it for more than a short burst). Also remember when you're getting to the outer limits of your comfort zone to keep your brakes covered, and be very mindful of not forgetting to keep pedalling.


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## Yellow Saddle (20 Jan 2019)

I can't help but wonder why not just get a bike with gears? But, with that knowledge freely available, consider it a rhetoric question.


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## midlife (20 Jan 2019)

Way back when I rode a lot of fixed (we all did) , at high cadence (twiddling) there was a limit where I just started to bounce around. Despite several years of trying I never seemed to break the limit..... I guess it was just that my legs couldn't move that fast lol.


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## fossala (21 Jan 2019)

smutchin said:


> ... Also remember when you're getting to the outer limits of your comfort zone to keep your brakes covered, and be very mindful of not forgetting to keep pedalling.


Something I've noticed is that if I'm applying a little bit of brakes my weight shifts forward causing more tension in my upper body. This make me less "loose" and makes the higher end of spinning harder. 

I've got a Specialized singlecross turning up today to commute on (my BJ w/ dura ace is to nice), may try bullhorns to help up the hills and have a larger area to brace my hands against when braking.


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## fossala (21 Jan 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I can't help but wonder why not just get a bike with gears? But, with that knowledge freely available, consider it a rhetoric question.


Cant' help but wonder why you don't just drive, after all it's easier...


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## smutchin (21 Jan 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I can't help but wonder why not just get a bike with gears? But, with that knowledge freely available, consider it a rhetoric question.



If you've never descended a 15% gradient while clinging on to your bike in sheer terror, bouncing in your saddle with your feet spinning at something approaching 200rpm, you simply haven't lived...


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## Yellow Saddle (21 Jan 2019)

fossala said:


> Cant' help but wonder why you don't just drive, after all it's easier...



I suppose I did ask for it.

OK, above 160rpm, it is no longer a matter of muscle conditioning but neurological conditioning. Bouncing is introduced when the returning leg muscles are still firing and provides a bit of resistance to the advancing leg. You have to condition the nerve pulses. This is best done by training on a stationary bike so that you can focus on technique rather than a hill crisis coming up. Some people claim they get big improvements in this conditioning from training with a Powercrank. These gadgets prevent one leg from interfering with the other and helps to train the muscles to release quicker on the upstroke. 
I had a go on one of them once fitted to a road bike. It was a very strange sensation. 

Give that a go. See if you can borrow one somewhere.


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## Yellow Saddle (21 Jan 2019)

smutchin said:


> If you've never descended a 15% gradient while clinging on to your bike in sheer terror, bouncing in your saddle with your feet spinning at something approaching 200rpm, you simply haven't lived...


I used to get my kicks from chasing trucks and then sitting in the incredible slipstream just centimeters away from the tailgate. Somehow that feels safer than your 15% 200rpm gyrocopter scenario.

I have lived.

I like to think I've grown up but truth beholds, I just got too slow to catch them anymore.


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## Alien8 (21 Jan 2019)

I start bouncing about not much above 130rpm (on 48x15).

How rubbish is that?


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## Sharky (22 Jan 2019)

Don't have a cadence monitor, but I maxed out on the "ski-slope" start on the Tonbridge bypass once, at 44mph on a 95" fixed, which equates to just under 160 rpm. Was bouncing around and was really scary - only just resisted using the brakes. In spite of the fast start, my average at the finish was only about 22 mph.

On the bike I used for commuting (when I was working), I rode fixed (68")for a long time, but the route was up and down Kent's North Downs and was pretty wearing, especially on the descents, so switched to a single freewheel, which was much more comfortable and faster on the descents.


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## Milkfloat (22 Jan 2019)

Rollers helped me increase cadence. Nowadays, if the cadence gets too high I just use my brakes. I did experiment with unclipping and letting gravity do it thing, but only once.


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## fossala (22 Jan 2019)

175rpm on today's ride home. New high score!

I don't think I could go much faster at the moment. I seemed to stop bobbing but my legs could hardly keep up. Still on 45x16-25c it got me to 36mph.


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## dave r (22 Jan 2019)

I find I start to bounce around 25 mph, once I get above that I smooth out. I'm on 46 X 18 and tend to max out around 30-35mph.


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## KneesUp (22 Jan 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> safer than your 15% 200rpm gyrocopter scenario.


Have a like for this bit, which made me spit out a bit of Bounty.


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## rogerzilla (22 Jan 2019)

Three tips (the first one is cheating):

1. Don't descend on the drops of the handlebars, but sit up straight and use the brake hoods. You want as much air resistance as possible.
2. Use your ankles. There is less reciprocating weight if you can accommodate some of the pedal movement down there rather than at your knees.
3. For really high cadence you have to actively pedal, not just let your feet be dragged round. You can't do this for very long.

The roller racing guys can do 250rpm under no-load conditions, although they're not coping with bumpy roads.


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## fossala (22 Jan 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> Three tips (the first one is cheating):
> 
> 1. Don't descend on the drops of the handlebars, but sit up straight and use the brake hoods. You want as much air resistance as possible.
> 2. Use your ankles. There is less reciprocating weight if you can accommodate some of the pedal movement down there rather than at your knees.
> ...


1. I'm doing that. I'm considering putting bullhorns on my commuter as I'm not using the drops at the moment. The second I make the switch will be headwinds the whole day though.
2. Do you mean tip toes at 6 o'clock and heel dragging at 12?
3. I realised that early on. I can't get over 130/140 without bouncing like a mad man unless I push/pull the pedals. Doesn't need to be much force but it does help.


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## rogerzilla (22 Jan 2019)

Yes, more ankling than in normal pedalling. Try to minimise how much your upper legs move. Feet are a lot lighter than thighs.


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## fossala (4 Mar 2019)

I've now got above 180rpm on a few occasions and can hold 160 for a few minutes. I descend a 1mile 10% hill 4 times a week on the way home, I think this is helping.


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## rogerzilla (4 Mar 2019)

I've been trying on the way home but the only hill is rather bumpy due to poor repairs. I got up to 156rpm a few weeks ago, and was trying for 170rpm, but then had to brake for the queue of cars at the bottom, which was longer than usual. A 1 mile hill gives a lot of scope for playing!


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## Sharky (5 Mar 2019)

Not to be overlooked is the benefit of a fixed or single speed in improving your low cadence. With gears and hills, there is a tendency to change down and down until you run out of gears and then struggle. With no option to change down, you develop the technique of riding at a very low cadence and still able to climb up hills without falling off.


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## KneesUp (5 Mar 2019)

Sharky said:


> Not to be overlooked is the benefit of a fixed or single speed in improving your low cadence. With gears and hills, there is a tendency to change down and down until you run out of gears and then struggle. With no option to change down, you develop the technique of riding at a very low cadence and still able to climb up hills without falling off.


Not with my knees you don't!


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## fossala (5 Mar 2019)

rogerzilla said:


> I've been trying on the way home but the only hill is rather bumpy due to poor repairs. I got up to 156rpm a few weeks ago, and was trying for 170rpm, but then had to brake for the queue of cars at the bottom, which was longer than usual. A 1 mile hill gives a lot of scope for playing!


Yes. I sometimes question am I lucky or unlucky with the terrain around me.


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## colly (14 Jun 2019)

To stop the bobbing up and down I find actively pulling up on the pedals helps. No idea what cadence I ever get to. I'll work it out.

Edit: 120 at 25mph so it seems.


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## ColinJ (14 Jun 2019)

colly said:


> No idea what cadence I ever get to. I'll work it out.


It is easy to do with Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator. 

I can pedal my singlespeed bike comfortably to 35 km/hr. It has a 52/19 gear so I can see from the calculator that I am doing just over 100 rpm. I can do short bursts at 40 km/hr so that would be just under 120 rpm.


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## Sharky (15 Jun 2019)

Yellow Saddle said:


> I used to get my kicks from chasing trucks and then sitting in the incredible slipstream just centimeters away from the tailgate. Somehow that feels safer than your 15% 200rpm gyrocopter scenario.
> 
> I have lived.
> 
> I like to think I've grown up but truth beholds, I just got too slow to catch them anymore.



No, trucks have just got faster.


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## fossala (15 Jun 2019)

5 months later and my top cadence is mid 180's and regularly go into 170's. While my max cadence hasn't risen drastically I'm much smoother and more comfortable at the 140-170 range.


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