# Brompton - 3 speed or 6 speed?



## doginabag (19 Jul 2016)

Hi all.

Looking to purchase a Brompton. I've had a Tern P9 for a couple of years now and although I really like how it rides, the build quality is pretty poor and it probably doesn't have much life left in it.

The only real alternative where I would have some confidence in it lasting well is a Brompton, buying through the cycle to work scheme there is a cap of £1000 so I need to carefully consider the options.

First I was looking at a custom specc'd bike as below which comes in at £960.

*Handlebar:* S Type 
*Gears:* 3 Speed 
*Gear Ratio:* 3 speed +8% 
*Mudguards/Rack :* Version L - inc. mudguards but no rack
*Frame Material:* Steel 
*Main Frame Colour:* Black 
*Extremities Colour:* Lime Green
*Saddle Height:* Standard 
*Saddle:* Brompton 
*Suspension:* Firm 
*Tyre:* Schwalbe Kojak
*Lighting:* Reflectors only








Second option is to go through Evans and buy one from their standard range, I would be looking at a S6L in black for £990.
https://www.evanscycles.com/brompton-s6l-2016-folding-bike-EV271308

So what it really boils down to is, is the 6 speed worthwhile over the 3 speed and and should I sacrifice being a tart with the custom paint job and settle for the boring plain black?

My commute is pretty short and flat (Liverpool Street station to Holborn) which is just under 2 miles and a similar distance and terrain on the other side of the train journey. So around 7.5 miles a day.
And the rider is not as fit as he should be.


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## glocal (19 Jul 2016)

Six speeds means additional maintenance for the derailleur, but I still prefer that and the smoother gearing, even if the range is effectively the same. 

I suggest you discuss the cap with the shop. You can pay for extras yourself but what counts as extras is flexible.


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## Dogtrousers (19 Jul 2016)

You might say that, as you have a flat commute, you don't need the extra range of a 6 speed. But once you have the Brompton you may (will?) want to ride it further afield, and on different terrains. And then the extra range comes in useful. I have a 6 speed, and that's all I have experience of.

Gear table, in case you've not seen it.
https://brompton.zendesk.com/hc/en-...What-are-the-Brompton-gear-ranges-and-ratios-


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## 12boy (19 Jul 2016)

If that ride was all you would ever do a single speed would suffice and a 3 would be ample. However, if you ever wanted to tour or go for longer rides or even have to move someplace less flat or take your bike with you on a trip, it would cost a lot more to increase your gearing to a 6 than the 30 pounds you are saving now. Not difficult or particularly costly to reduce the speeds on a 6, either. A stock 2 speed wheel is fairly cheap, 140 here in the USA vs 269 for a wide range SA hub. Your M type can fit some riser bars that would be lower or as low as the S bars so there is some versatility there as well. the Evans one comes with a luggage block as well which is something you will surely want. Almost any bag will convert your basic transportation to a mini-cargo bike for library books, a 12 pack or other groceries etc. I'd also set aside my pennies for a rechargeable LED headlight and a rear blinky so as to visible when the days are short and you are going home in the dark unless you take those off your Tern. Fab Foodie's all blue bike looks pretty sharp to me. Mine is red and black but I wish it had been all black.


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## doginabag (19 Jul 2016)

glocal said:


> Six speeds means additional maintenance for the derailleur, but I still prefer that and the smoother gearing, even if the range is effectively the same.
> 
> I suggest you discuss the cap with the shop. You can pay for extras yourself but what counts as extras is flexible.


Thank you, that's worth considering. I will speak to them again and see what they can do.



Dogtrousers said:


> You might say that, as you have a flat commute, you don't need the extra range of a 6 speed. But once you have the Brompton you may (will?) want to ride it further afield, and on different terrains. And then the extra range comes in useful. I have a 6 speed, and that's all I have experience of.
> 
> Gear table, in case you've not seen it.
> https://brompton.zendesk.com/hc/en-...What-are-the-Brompton-gear-ranges-and-ratios-


That gear table looks useful, not seen it before.
Thinking out loud here - I'm looking a the +8% 3 speed which seems to be similar top end to the standard 6 speed, the benefit seems to come at the low end which I don't think I really need. The first gear on the 3 speed looks comparable to the 3rd gear on the 6 speed, so ignoring hte first two gears I don't need then I'm really comparing 3 speed against 4 speed.

With the 9 speed Tern I have currently I find if a bit over the top. 9 gears is far too many for a single front gear to handle and the chain comes off roughly once per mile! I never go below third and after that tend to jump two gears at a time as they are too close. 
I have had a brief go on a 3 speed Brompton and it seemed fine, but am wondering if it is going too far the other way.

No concerns on using it for longer rides, never had the desire to before and I do have a (proper?) bike for leisure riding. 

I think I am talking myself into the simplicity option of the 3 speed.



12boy said:


> If that ride was all you would ever do a single speed would suffice and a 3 would be ample. However, if you ever wanted to tour or go for longer rides or even have to move someplace less flat or take your bike with you on a trip, it would cost a lot more to increase your gearing to a 6 than the 30 pounds you are saving now. Not difficult or particularly costly to reduce the speeds on a 6, either. A stock 2 speed wheel is fairly cheap, 140 here in the USA vs 269 for a wide range SA hub. Your M type can fit some riser bars that would be lower or as low as the S bars so there is some versatility there as well. the Evans one comes with a luggage block as well which is something you will surely want. Almost any bag will convert your basic transportation to a mini-cargo bike for library books, a 12 pack or other groceries etc. I'd also set aside my pennies for a rechargeable LED headlight and a rear blinky so as to visible when the days are short and you are going home in the dark unless you take those off your Tern. Fab Foodie's all blue bike looks pretty sharp to me. Mine is red and black but I wish it had been all black.


I would like to get a front luggage bag but with either option that puts me over mt £1000 limit, so will be something I may add later. I can add the luggage block to the custom specc'd option for peanuts so that may be worth doing.

Lights are already to hand from the Tern.

Thanks guys


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## 12boy (19 Jul 2016)

As far as riding a proper bike for leisure riding goes I have several proper bikes and yet, while I ride them occasionally just because, my first go-tos are my Brompton and my Xootr swift. I particularly like the Brompton when carrying a lot of stuff to work or home from the grocery store. I think you will find your Brompton a lot of fun to ride and will go to it more than you might think. 20 miles on a flat surface with light wind is not much of a challenge for a 3 speed.


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## mjr (19 Jul 2016)

I love my bigger three speeds, have mashed them up some climbs and would lower the gearing by fitting a bigger sprocket if I often rode in hillier places. The benefit of simpler maintenance outweighs the reduced range.

I bought a six-speed non-Brompton folding bike and with hindsight, going for six instead of three was a slight mistake - the derailleur on a small wheel puts the chain too near the road crud and needs more cleaning than on a 600mm-ish wheel.


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## Fab Foodie (19 Jul 2016)

I have a six because I go over all terrains and tour with mine. For your usage a 2 or 3 speed sounds perfect. And as stated a 3 speed is sl less maintainance.
Something I have just done to mine is replace the standard chainring with a double a £50 mod to give a wider gear range. Chain moving is done manually but it gives a high range and a low range for different usages.

Get the front block.

For luggage, you can buy a Brompton bag frame for £20 and attach a carradice saddlebag or similar if you have one.  Cheap single Pannier can also be attached with a bit more bodging.


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## shouldbeinbed (19 Jul 2016)

I'm not the fittest or fastest and ride a standard 3 speed happily up and down the pennine foothills around North Manchester. Knowing when to flick up and down a gear very readily becomes second nature and I'm never frustrated or lacking a gear to do what I need, simplicity sums it up nicely. To be fair tho, occasionally I find myself wanting a faster top gear when whizzing along downward sloping flats but in an urban environment such as you'd be riding I doubt that would be a problem, through the heart of Manchester and busy rush hour roads a 3 is fine IMHO.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jul 2016)

Are you sure you want an S type?


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## T4tomo (19 Jul 2016)

Ignore grumps, the s type feels most like a proper bike to ride. I originally went with 3 spd +8%, when I replaced a broken crank (new design is much stronger) I went back I standard gearing which I actually prefer as I have a few hill where I live now.

You wont notice the difference on Liv Street to Holborn, but a slightly lower bottom end you might appreciate on different terrain.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jul 2016)

T4tomo said:


> Ignore grumps, the s type feels most like a proper bike to ride.
> .


Because someone who has ridden an S type, from London to Southend, at night, in a kilt* is not entitled to ask questions?

*amongst other B rides of significant duration.


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## GrumpyGregry (19 Jul 2016)

User14044mountain said:


> Avoid the Kojaks unless you like fixing punctures.


Keep the Kojaks inflated to well over 100psi* unless you like visitations. 

*No it does not make for comfort, but boy does it seem to roll fast and easy.


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## doginabag (19 Jul 2016)

GrumpyGregry said:


> Are you sure you want an S type?


yeah I tried the s type and the m type. The s is much more what I am used to, the m made me feel a bit like a princess out on a morning pony ride. 



User14044mountain said:


> Avoid the Kojaks unless you like fixing punctures.


Oh really, the standard Brompton tyres are a better bet? I currently have the marathons and thought these might be a step up. 



T4tomo said:


> Ignore grumps, the s type feels most like a proper bike to ride. I originally went with 3 spd +8%, when I replaced a broken crank (new design is much stronger) I went back I standard gearing which I actually prefer as I have a few hill where I live now.
> 
> You wont notice the difference on Liv Street to Holborn, but a slightly lower bottom end you might appreciate on different terrain.


Nice to know it is a simple change should I ever want to.


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## T4tomo (19 Jul 2016)

Tyres wise I personally like standard (non plus) marathons, roll well enough, very p resistant and I found grip better than standard brommie tyres.


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## Kell (20 Jul 2016)

I've got the standard marathons on mine and not had a puncture in 2,000 miles of commuting in London. (Almost guaranteed to get one tonight now.)

As for price, From memory, mine came out at £1,080 and I paid the £80 cash as a deposit to secure the order of the bike and then paid the balance with the £1,000 from Ride to work. (Actually, it wasn't ride to work, it was another scheme, the name of which escapes me right now.)

I went for the 6-speed because of my journey at the 'home' end of the commute. I live in high Wycombe and often have to climb a pretty steep hill on my way home. To give you an idea of how steep, I normally top at 44mph coming down it, but average about 4mph going up it.

Otherwise 3-speeds might have been enough, but I'd have had to go for one which had a higher top end speed. I know this as I hired one for about a month from the docks in Ealing (there are others and there may be one near you: https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/) and found that I was spinning out far too easily. They are all fairly standard 3-speed M-types, so it might be worth hiring one to see if you feel the gearing is right, too low, not enough range etc. It's £2.50 a day and you can keep the bike for as long as you want. I used the one I hired for about a month while mine was being built.

Alternatively, if you can get to the Brompton Junction in Covent garden, you can take out various combinations of bar type and gears, but I found it was hard to tell which suited on a 2-minute jaunt around the block.

As for bars, I found due to my height that an M type was probably the best fit, but I didn't like the look. So I ordered an H type (even higher) and fitted low riser bars to it. The result is something that's a little higher than an S and a little lower than an M. It's ended up with the bar height being the same as the seat height which, at my age (and 'what with my back') is very useful, but still allows me to press on a bit. you can do the same by starting off with an S Type, but I was worried about the cables being too short, and whether or not it would fold properly. The H type has the fold slightly higher up, so the higher bars don't scrape the ground.

Here's what mine looked like on ordering:







And after some 'fettling':











Also, this is the diagram I used to help me come to the conclusion that an H'-ype would work best for my plans:


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## simongt (20 Jul 2016)

With such a short commute, unless you plan on longer hillier ones in the future, a 3 speed will be fine. However, the main drawback of the S type is it severely limits the range of Brompton type front bags you can fit; it's to do with cable layout apparently. With the M type, then the whole range of bags fits.


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## TheDoctor (20 Jul 2016)

If there's any chance you'll want six gears in the future, get them from the outset. It's a lot cheaper that way...


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## mjr (21 Jul 2016)

TheDoctor said:


> If there's any chance you'll want six gears in the future, get them from the outset. It's a lot cheaper that way...


Same applies if you decide you'd prefer the simplicity of three, though!


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## TheDoctor (21 Jul 2016)

Yes, but a Brommie is never all that simple anyhow. What I meant is, buying a 6 speed is £65 more than a 3 speed. Converting a 3 speed later on is over £220 and entails a new back wheel.


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## Melvil (24 Jul 2016)

simongt said:


> With such a short commute, unless you plan on longer hillier ones in the future, a 3 speed will be fine. However, the main drawback of the S type is it severely limits the range of Brompton type front bags you can fit; it's to do with cable layout apparently. With the M type, then the whole range of bags fits.



That's interesting...which bags do fit an s type then?


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## Melvil (24 Jul 2016)

I have an S6l and love it. I am very glad I got 6 gears but then I do live in Scotland so must deal with hills. I like the position of an S which is the most aggressive of the B handlebar styles, but I also get a bit of wrist pain (I think however that is due to the shocking nature of Edinburgh's roads and the consequent jarring). You can get this model with a front block for £990 (by not spending on a paint colour) - that is why I have a black and white bike!


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## T4tomo (24 Jul 2016)

Melvil said:


> That's interesting...which bags do fit an s type then?


Officially the s bag only, due to the shorter stem height, the C and T don't fit, although I believe some have used them and got away with it. 

But you can attach just about any bag to the bag frame, see fab foodie for details.


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## doginabag (2 Aug 2016)

Just placed the order. Buckled at the last minute and went for the six speed.

Just got to wait the 6-8 weeks for it to be built just because I wanted it in silly colours.


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## Melvil (4 Aug 2016)

doginabag said:


> Just placed the order. Buckled at the last minute and went for the six speed.
> 
> Just got to wait the 6-8 weeks for it to be built just because I wanted it in silly colours.



Good work. Post pics when you get it! (I want to see the silly colours!)


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## RoubaixCube (4 Aug 2016)

And there was me thinking i was the only one here who worked in Holborn, its a small world ;p


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## twentysix by twentyfive (20 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Gear table, in case you've not seen it.
> https://brompton.zendesk.com/hc/en-...What-are-the-Brompton-gear-ranges-and-ratios-


Very useful tables - thanks 

I'd go for the 6, -12% option but even then I would find the jumps between gears rather large. Is the 6 a cassette or does it still involve a hub gear? If cassette can the sprockets be chosen to suit a more close ratio requirement? Also how easy is it to acquire/fit smaller chainrings? Any chance of fitting a double or even a triple?

Sorry chaps but I'm quite keen on getting my gearing correct (for me). I sacrifice big gears for close ratio smaller gearing. 5" jump between gears is about right for me. 10" as per the 6, -12% is too much.


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## Dogtrousers (20 Aug 2016)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Very useful tables - thanks
> 
> I'd go for the 6, -12% option but even then I would find the jumps between gears rather large. * Is the 6 a cassette or does it still involve a hub gear? * If cassette can the sprockets be chosen to suit a more close ratio requirement? Also how easy is it to acquire/fit smaller chainrings? Any chance of fitting a double or even a triple?
> 
> Sorry chaps but I'm quite keen on getting my gearing correct (for me). I sacrifice big gears for close ratio smaller gearing. 5" jump between gears is about right for me. 10" as per the 6, -12% is too much.


The 6 is a 3 speed hub with a 2 speed "cassette". (Two sprockets on the hub)
@Fab Foodie has recently fitted a double. See this thread for the story.
There are other after market hub gears that you can fit or get fitted. I don't know anything about them, but they do exist.


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## mjr (21 Aug 2016)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Sorry chaps but I'm quite keen on getting my gearing correct (for me). I sacrifice big gears for close ratio smaller gearing. 5" jump between gears is about right for me. 10" as per the 6, -12% is too much.


You remind me that I really must lower the greasing on one of my 3speed hubs, to reduce the current 26" step


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## Fab Foodie (21 Aug 2016)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Very useful tables - thanks
> 
> I'd go for the 6, -12% option but even then I would find the jumps between gears rather large. Is the 6 a cassette or does it still involve a hub gear? If cassette can the sprockets be chosen to suit a more close ratio requirement? Also how easy is it to acquire/fit smaller chainrings? Any chance of fitting a double or even a triple?
> 
> Sorry chaps but I'm quite keen on getting my gearing correct (for me). I sacrifice big gears for close ratio smaller gearing. 5" jump between gears is about right for me. 10" as per the 6, -12% is too much.


As @Dogtrousers says, if fitted a double chainset but not a derailleur (yet), it gives a low range gear set for touring over lumpy terrain.
Rogerzilla over at Yacf has modified his Brompton with a close ratio hub. Might be worth asking ....
My other thought is that a Brompton is not like a normal bike to ride anyhow. The 6 speed needs a lot of double shifting to go up or down the gear range for example and to my mind that effects how you make progress on it.
I think you need to try one for a time to see if it's for you.


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## T4tomo (21 Aug 2016)

There are after market 8 speed hub options, Alfine and SA, but neither are cheap. Threads on here about them if you search.


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## oldwheels (21 Aug 2016)

I have a six speed with S bars but reduced the chainring to 40t. This gives a good low for some of the nasty hills I tend to find myself on. Reduces my top speed on the flat to about 20mph but then I am never in too much of a hurry since this bike is used entirely for touring. Best investment I ever made bikewise.


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## twentysix by twentyfive (21 Aug 2016)

T4tomo said:


> There are after market 8 speed hub options, Alfine and SA, but neither are cheap. Threads on here about them if you search.


Mostly, and because of design constraints I think, hub gears tend to have those large jumps I was attempting to avoid. Even "close ratio" ones aren't in my book. But I'm willing to be convinced.


oldwheels said:


> I have a six speed with S bars but reduced the chainring to 40t. This gives a good low for some of the nasty hills I tend to find myself on. Reduces my top speed on the flat to about 20mph but then I am never in too much of a hurry since this bike is used entirely for touring. Best investment I ever made bikewise.


Yep - I very rarely get past 20 mph these days although if there is a downhill with a following wind I can. Some 13 years ago I designed my current gearing so that I would spin out at 30 mph whilst giving me a bundle of climbing gears. In practice I nearly unscrewed my legs at 32.5 mph back in the day and did ride a 1km of 25% as designed. So I'm a fairly well calibrated rider and know my gearing needs. These days the 25% would defeat me so I've put a bigger cog on for my up coming tour.

Hmmph - am I just a fussy fussy?


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## Dogtrousers (21 Aug 2016)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> Hmmph - am I just a fussy fussy?


Well, seeing as you mention it... Yes 

To use the Brompton 6 setup in strict sequence, giving the smallest gaps, every other change is a double change.

Or you could do what I do and just use it as a 3 speed hub with quite big jumps between gears and use the sprockets (left hand shifter) to give two ranges. But you need to be quite unfussy to do that


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## twentysix by twentyfive (21 Aug 2016)

Dogtrousers said:


> Well, seeing as you mention it... Yes


 I'll put my hand up to that. 

Thanks for the gearing advice everyone. 

My current tour is complicated by flying back from a different airport from my starting one. I'd still need an airline bag or box for a Brommie tho' wouldn't I?


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## Fab Foodie (21 Aug 2016)

twentysix by twentyfive said:


> I'll put my hand up to that.
> 
> Thanks for the gearing advice everyone.
> 
> My current tour is complicated by flying back from a different airport from my starting one. I'd still need an airline bag or box for a Brommie tho' wouldn't I?


Id think so. I have read about people passing out an IKEA dumps bag and putting it in the hold OR putting everything else in the hold and putting the Brommie in the overhead locker. If you're in business class, no probs.
Good thing about a Brommie is that it's pretty easy to box-up compared to a regular bike.

And yeah, if touring you're being a mite fussy about gearing ;-)


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## 12boy (21 Aug 2016)

Its true the Bromptons are odd little creatures with many quirks but work well within their limitations, and their sturdy steel frames are stouter than the hubs of hell. Bushings may wear out but I haven't heard of frames or hinges crapping out to where thy can't be resurrected. I do wish they would add brakes with QR levers to make wheel changing easier, or horizontal drop outs or even a stem that would allow for use of 1 1/8 stems but you can work around those things.


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## doginabag (26 Aug 2016)

Just had a call. It's arrived in the store 5 mins from my office so I can pick it up now! 

But I've taken the day off to fit a bathroom and with the bank holiday have to wait till Tuesday. 
This is going to be a long weekend!


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## the_mikey (26 Aug 2016)

I have an M6R, If I was buying again I'd go for the 3 speed, the extra speed options are 'nice to have' but really not necessary.


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## doginabag (30 Aug 2016)

Just picked it up, very happy with it. I'm impressed with just how solid it all feels. Gears are, fun. Synchronising between the hub and the derailleur will take some getting used to and the right side shifter is very awkward and requires shifting my grip of the bar to use which doesn't sit well. Will see if it's position can be tweaked. And those handlebar grips..........

May also need to change to a longer seat post which surprised me as I tend to buy shirt trousers and still get them taken up!

Here are some pics.













Also picked up a new cage and bottle which will probably just be cable tied on for now until I can work up a more permanent solution. 





Very much looking forward to getting it home and having a proper poke about.


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## Fab Foodie (30 Aug 2016)

doginabag said:


> Just picked it up, very happy with it. I'm impressed with just how solid it all feels. Gears are, fun. Synchronising between the hub and the derailleur will take some getting used to and the right side shifter is very awkward and requires shifting my grip of the bar to use which doesn't sit well. Will see if it's position can be tweaked. And those handlebar grips..........
> 
> May also need to change to a longer seat post which surprised me as I tend to buy shirt trousers and still get them taken up!
> 
> ...


Sex on 2 wheels! That's nice.! The right shifter should be adjusted so your thumb fits neatly in the vee. Ergon grips are the way to go ...


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## doginabag (30 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Sex on 2 wheels! That's nice.! The right shifter should be adjusted so your thumb fits neatly in the vee. Ergon grips are the way to go ...


Thank you! 
I am going to have a good fettle with it tonight, i'm sure i will be able to move it a bit closer, i'll give it a good chance before looking at alternatives at least.
Looking at grips, I may go for some of the Ergons. Will give it some time to get used to the bike for a while first, not sure if I really need palm support for my short rides.

Oh, and is it common to not be able to role the bike on the transport wheels? It feels like the mud guard bottoms out on the ground rather than sitting on the small wheel on the guard.


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## Fab Foodie (30 Aug 2016)

If you reorientate the saddle pentaclip you might get an extra inch of saddle height.


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## Dogtrousers (30 Aug 2016)

doginabag said:


> Oh, and is it common to not be able to role the bike on the transport wheels? It feels like the mud guard bottoms out on the ground rather than sitting on the small wheel on the guard.


Sure it's mudguard, not seat post? If you shove the seat post all the way down it can hit the ground.


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## Melvil (30 Aug 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> Ergon grips are the way to go ...



+1 - Ergons GP2's have been absolutely fabulous for my commute. Not just for the comfort but the hand positions - even on short commutes


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## doginabag (31 Aug 2016)

Well, not being one to hang around, it now has some ergon-GP2s.. Thanks for the many recommendations!










And a bottle cage added to the main tube.


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## Kell (31 Aug 2016)

Monkii clips and cages are also good for bottles. 

Wouldn't fit your main frame though, fits on the handlebar stem.


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## doginabag (31 Aug 2016)

Yeah I have seen a few solutions for mounting to the stem, but for some reason I didn't really like the idea of the bottle being upside down when folded. Might still give it a go once I've given this a fair go.


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## Kell (1 Sep 2016)

With the Monkii clip, once the bike folds you can take the cage off and spin it the other way up so it doesn't leak while folded.

http://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/brompton-gifts/monkii-clip/#.V8e5SMR4WnM


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## doginabag (1 Sep 2016)

Oh I like that. I didn't realise it rotated in use, I thought it was just for the initial fitting.


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## Fab Foodie (1 Sep 2016)

doginabag said:


> Oh I like that. I didn't realise it rotated in use, I thought it was just for the initial fitting.


This is a neater solution to the Monkii. I have both. Most Stem mounted bottles on Brommies tend to use this system. Again, the bottle cage mounts either way up when folded.


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

and.....if you're buying a bag, then consider this...





not as fashionable as the handlebar stem mounted bag, but quick to get on and off, and it makes for a much better ride.


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## Dogtrousers (1 Sep 2016)

dellzeqq said:


> and.....if you're buying a bag, then consider this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Link? Who makes/sells it? (I am both interested and lazy)


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## dellzeqq (1 Sep 2016)

sorry - it's made in Holland with a Brompton badge, but sold by Evans among others. I don't bother with the strap around the little stud at the front of the rack - the velcro strap round the seatpost and the clip at the back give me all the stability I need to transport 10kg or so of groceries.

It won't take an A3 folder, but neither will the front bag.
https://www.evanscycles.com/brompto...esvaid=50080&gclid=CLGQ053d7c4CFcHnGwodeVIPNQ


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## Kell (1 Sep 2016)

Also, if the bottle is mounted offset to the right, it doesn't make the fold any wider...


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## Fab Foodie (1 Sep 2016)

Fab Foodie said:


> This is a neater solution to the Monkii. I have both. Most Stem mounted bottles on Brommies tend to use this system. Again, the bottle cage mounts either way up when folded.


DOH .... linky added!
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b108s53p0/Parts-and-Accessories/RIXEN-KAUL/Bottles-and-Cages


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## Cycleops (2 Sep 2016)

Kell said:


> Also, if the bottle is mounted offset to the right, it doesn't make the fold any wider...



Goodness, is that some sort of bike temple?


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## Kell (3 Sep 2016)

That is Marylebone station.

There are 'one or two' bikes on the racks there.


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