# Building speed... Does it come naturally?



## dee.jay (16 Sep 2014)

I suppose the answer is fairly easy for this question.

As I'm building my miles up, losing the weight etc, will it be reasonable to see a natural trend for speed to rise? My stamina is - managed 18 miles (with a few stops of course) where I could barely do 3 only a few weeks ago.....


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## TissoT (16 Sep 2014)

Speed will come once you have reached a level in your fitnesses...


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## slowmotion (16 Sep 2014)

I'm a lot fitter than I was but I haven't got any faster. Riding at the same speed that I always have has become a lot less of an effort though.


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

A good fast bike helps too. I'm astonished at how fast my new Felt is compared to my Pinnacle, and I'd previously thought the Pinny was a flighty wee machine.


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## Doc333 (16 Sep 2014)

You know the answer to your question. take it from me, your miles will build, your climbing will improve, your fitness will improve, your thigh muscles won't hurt as much, your waist will drop (I hope because mines not yet) your breathing will become easier, your blood flow will be much healthier and you know what? you'r speed will improve. Mine went from 8 mph ave to 14 mph ave. I went from 45 minute minute rides to 2.5 hour rides. hey I'm still here and feel that I could be here for a while longer


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## swede54 (16 Sep 2014)

I've been riding for 3 years after a long break. Haven't got much faster but I can go 20 times farther now.


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## dee.jay (16 Sep 2014)

Thanks all - I appreciate it was a fairly obvious answer


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## jefmcg (16 Sep 2014)

You gotta push it. You will get further and further, but if you don't push it, like me and @swede54 you'll just cruise a long at a comfortable pace.


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## Fab Foodie (16 Sep 2014)

jefmcg said:


> You gotta push it. You will get further and further, but if you don't push it, like me and @swede54 you'll just cruise a long at a comfortable pace.


This. You will naturally improve to a point .... but to go past that point requires serious effort.


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## nobbyp (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay

When I started back riding in August I was averaging 11-12mph. Now riding longer and faster - averaging 15 maybe 16 mph now depending on climb & ride length. Improvement on fitness / waking up the cycling muscles is helping for sure but I also have improved my riding technique - using higher cadence and not trying to grind high gears up climbs - this element alone I think had added a couple of mph and leaves more in the tank to ride for longer


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

You may reach a point where improving is not as easy as it once was.


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## nobbyp (16 Sep 2014)

Am personally about 1.5 stone away from that point - figure every bit of weight I don't have to drag up hill will help (probably equates to about £2k worth of savings on a lighter bike!!


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## dee.jay (16 Sep 2014)

I'm 18st odd so carrying around a fair amount of ballast...... :-D


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## Drago (16 Sep 2014)

A real man.


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I'm 18st odd so carrying around a fair amount of ballast...... :-D



How tall?


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## Big Nick (16 Sep 2014)

Heard a quote recently 'cycling doesn't get easier you just get faster'

I average around 14mph (on rides of 20-50 miles) which is slow by decent rider standards but I am the wrong side of 45 years old and only started cycling again last January so I'm reasonably happy with that.


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## Ern1e (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I'm 18st odd so carrying around a fair amount of ballast...... :-D


 But that will make you faster down hill lol ok seriously you should be able to get to set points quicker ! I still time myself now and again and as @Fab Foodie states it will take some serious effort once you reach your natural point so keepriding and most importantly keep enjoying it !!!


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## The Mighty Boosh (16 Sep 2014)

keep at it and push you're self on every ride, unless you hurt after a ride its a waste of time and effort..


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## Ern1e (16 Sep 2014)

Big Nick said:


> Heard a quote recently 'cycling doesn't get easier you just get faster'
> 
> I average around 14mph (on rides of 20-50 miles) which is slow by decent rider standards but I am the wrong side of 45 years old and only started cycling again last January so I'm reasonably happy with that.


I also average 14 mph and I also am very happy with that being the wrong side of 59 and an old steel mtb lol.


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

The Mighty Boosh said:


> keep at it and push you're self on every ride, unless you hurt after a ride its a waste of time and effort..



Wow! I did not know that gem of information. 

That is a nice way of saying what a load of tosh.


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## dee.jay (16 Sep 2014)

I'm 5ft6 ish


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## cyberknight (16 Sep 2014)

It will come but dont get to hung up about bettering your speed day in day out, sometimes your speed on the same course will vary a lot dependent on how you feel, weather , etc etc .
My average speed for my commute over 10 miles can vary by over 3 mph , today was definitely a slow day due to little sleep , sniffle and still aching from Sundays effort .


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## Big Nick (16 Sep 2014)

Ern1e said:


> I also average 14 mph and I also am very happy with that being the wrong side of 59 and an old steel mtb lol.


Fantastic going Ern !!!


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## The Mighty Boosh (16 Sep 2014)

Big Nick said:


> Heard a quote recently 'cycling doesn't get easier you just get faster'
> 
> I average around 14mph (on rides of 20-50 miles) which is slow by decent rider standards but I am the wrong side of 45 years old and only started cycling again last January so I'm reasonably happy with that.


don't use your age as an exc


screenman said:


> Wow! I did not know that gem of information.
> 
> That is a nice way of saying what a load of tosh.


lol


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I'm 5ft6 ish



In that case I sure hope you get really bit buy the cycling bug.


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## Big Nick (16 Sep 2014)

The Mighty Boosh said:


> don't use your age as an exc



Can I use my 2 dodgy knees then?


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## dee.jay (16 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> In that case I sure hope you get really bit buy the cycling bug.



Yeah I know - I'm far too heavy at this height but the cycling bug has set in. :-)


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## screenman (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> Yeah I know - I'm far too heavy at this height but the cycling bug has set in. :-)



I wish you the best I was big once, well worth the effort not to have to carry that 4+stone around any more.

Try lifting a 5 gallon container of water it sure makes you think a bit.


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## Cuchilo (16 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Wow! I did not know that gem of information.
> 
> That is a nice way of saying what a load of tosh.


You say that but it does depend on what you want to do . People say cycling doesn't build muscle just tones it but if you push harder then you build muscle .
Some are happy to keep spinning and lose a bit of weight , some want to push harder and are willing to hurt for it .
Rocky didn't run up the steps and scream ADRIAN for nothing you know


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## BrynCP (16 Sep 2014)

Speed came naturally to me: my first "long" rides were around 10-11 mph over 15 miles, on Saturday I did 58 miles at 16mph average.

Now I have moved to the climbs because it makes me push hard again, and it's working!

Combined with a sensible diet, the weight can just fall off; I was around 18.5 stone in November and on Saturday I was 13 stone 10. I have also built a lot of leg muscle from cycling, it's the only real exercise I have done in many years, other than general walking.


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## jnrmczip (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I suppose the answer is fairly easy for this question.
> 
> As I'm building my miles up, losing the weight etc, will it be reasonable to see a natural trend for speed to rise? My stamina is - managed 18 miles (with a few stops of course) where I could barely do 3 only a few weeks ago.....


As @tissot said as you get fitter you will push yourself more and you will freewheel less increasing speed


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## jnrmczip (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I suppose the answer is fairly easy for this question.
> 
> As I'm building my miles up, losing the weight etc, will it be reasonable to see a natural trend for speed to rise? My stamina is - managed 18 miles (with a few stops of course) where I could barely do 3 only a few weeks ago.....


P's when I started it took me 24 mins to get to work now I can do it in 17 think it has a lot to do with your mind set as well. Some mornings I go out to ride and just enjoy it other times I try to challenge myself by increasing my speed which means I put more effort in


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## BrynCP (16 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> My stamina is - managed 18 miles (with a few stops of course) where I could barely do 3 only a few weeks ago.....



One of the first signs of my improvement was when I started doing a 10 mile ride, I had to stop for a break 6 miles in. Naturally I didn't need the stop any more.

And the same thing on my longer rides: I used to stop twice on my regular 45 mile ride, then I started stopping just once, and now I don't stop at all; I eat and drink while riding. I am not advocating not taking a break, if you need it you need it and it's sensible to stop, but for me it's just an example of what has occurred naturally (on my 58 mile ride I actually took 5 minutes to sit on the seafront and have a drink).


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## Cuchilo (16 Sep 2014)

BrynCP said:


> Speed came naturally to me, but it did get to a point after many months that it slowed down and I felt myself not pushing. So now I have moved to the climbs because it makes me push hard again, and it's working!
> 
> Combined with a sensible diet, the weight can just fall off; I was around 18.5 stone in November and on Saturday I was 13 stone 10. I have also built a lot of leg muscle from cycling, it's the only real exercise I have done in many years, other than general walking.


I used to hate hills but last week I sprinted up one that daunted me a year ago .
I remember going up that hill with a GP last year and asking how the hell those guys go up it so fast . She said you will be doing that soon and your heart loves it . I laughed but she was right .


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## slowmotion (16 Sep 2014)

The Mighty Boosh said:


> keep at it and push you're self on every ride, unless you hurt after a ride its a waste of time and effort..


 I ride to enjoy myself. I don't do masochism. It's a bit too "specialised".


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## jnrmczip (16 Sep 2014)

slowmotion said:


> I ride to enjoy myself. I don't do masochism. It's a bit too "specialised".


I ride to enjoy myself also but also ride to keep fit so I mix it up a bit I use the commute to keep fit and longer rides to see things. Challenging myself is not to be macho it's simply just to get fit. I don't concern myself with beating others just beating myself.


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## guitarpete247 (16 Sep 2014)

I try as hard as I can. And still go out whenever I can. I don't have the time for doing big distances, especially now the nights are drawing in. The next time I get the chance to do any goodish distance will be mid October. 
I'm on Sportstracker, Ritmo and Strava to keep track of my efforts. I fluctuate up and down, averaging mid 14 mph. 

In my youth I did much better distnances and better speeds but I was 30 - 40 years younger and living in the flat area of South Yorkshire centred here. 

I will be 58 next week (getting towards 60 too quickly). I still enjoy cycling and will keep going for as long as I can, going as far as I can.


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## slowmotion (16 Sep 2014)

jnrmczip said:


> I ride to enjoy myself also but also ride to keep fit so I mix it up a bit I use the commute to keep fit and longer rides to see things. Challenging myself is not to be macho it's simply just to get fit. I don't concern myself with beating others just beating myself.


I like a personal challenge , and I enjoy getting fitter too. But I don't see pain as a virtue.


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## vickster (16 Sep 2014)

I have got quicker, despite two dodgy legs...it would help if there was no traffic and no traffic lights around here I reckon...two things I can't do a lot about!


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## ayceejay (16 Sep 2014)

What was the question again? I am 5 foot 6 and weigh 18 stone how do I get quicker on the bike?
If you can get *on* a bike I would consider that a result and once you are on and mobile you are cooking.
If you enjoy it roll your self on to the bike as often as you have the time, ride out into the country along a canal and stop to admire the view (not at a cake shop).
Before you know it you will be quick slim and healthy.


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## dee.jay (17 Sep 2014)

Perhaps it really was a case of "ask a silly question" here - I suppose what it boils down to is - getting out on it whenever I can and the rest will come


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## screenman (17 Sep 2014)

What is faster? it is different for everybody. No need for pain, the Mathetone method works extremely well without all the hurt and i would say be ideal for somebody like the OP. All this no pain no gain talk is off putting for many, been there done that and got the T Shirt, like most I went faster using a mix. That mix only started once I had a good base in and a high level of fitness, as for muscle gain come on, you got to put a lot of work in to get ripped legs, even then you have little upper body definition.


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## screenman (17 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> Perhaps it really was a case of "ask a silly question" here - I suppose what it boils down to is - getting out on it whenever I can and the rest will come



Just go and get healthier, you owe it to yourself and your family, the benefits are massive. Most of all try and make it a hobby you enjoy.

Have fun.


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## dee.jay (17 Sep 2014)

Definitely! Thanks


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## Joshua Plumtree (17 Sep 2014)

If you're fairly new to cycling, then just get out and ride for a few months; that'll increase your fitness and the weight will drop off, at least initially.

If, after a few months, you want to make a conscious effort to increase your average speed, then I would suggest incorporating a couple of ten minute intervals at a faster pace into your ride, gives you a target to aim for and much easier than 
trying to go faster for the length of a whole ride which can be a bit of a drag and might ruin your enjoyment of cycling.

As you become fitter and stronger maybe increase to two twenty minute intervals

No point pushing too hard if the result is you end up losing yer mojo!


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## vickster (17 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> Perhaps it really was a case of "ask a silly question" here - I suppose what it boils down to is - getting out on it whenever I can and the rest will come



Ride more, eat less (and especially drink less booze and sugary crap)  You won't lose that much weight by cycling alone I'm afraid if you don't consume fewer calories than you expend through daily existence and exercise


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## dee.jay (17 Sep 2014)

Diet wasn't my concern - I don't drink much and eat sensibly - mainly low carbs.


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## vickster (17 Sep 2014)

18 stone is quite a big weight for someone who is 5'6 on that basis? Are you receiving medical treatment that has caused weight gain (steroids, thyroid treatment)? Gives you a BMI of over 40

IME it's about calories, wherever they come from, not carbs (need to have more calories going out than coming in, preferably from a balanced diet)


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## jefmcg (17 Sep 2014)

I'd add "get strava" to the list, if you have a smart phone. It's addictive from the second time you go out. There's user created segments everywhere, and each time you ride one, it compares your speed to all your previous rides, and it will tell you if it's the one of the 3 fastest times you have ridden it. So the second time you ride the same route, you'll get "cups". If you are slower than before it will be a second place, otherwise you get a personal record. Lots of people find it incentive to push a little every ride.

(it also compares you to every other strava user who has ridden that route. Try to ignore that for now, it's very depressing at first)


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## dee.jay (17 Sep 2014)

Yep I have Strava. It's awesome.

@vickster - Nothing medical - 30 years of being lazy. I work in IT. My weight was 21 stone but I've reduced intake to get it to where it is, honestly diet is in hand


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## Nigelnaturist (17 Sep 2014)

Big Nick said:


> *Heard a quote recently 'cycling doesn't get easier you just get faster'*
> 
> I average around 14mph (on rides of 20-50 miles) which is slow by decent rider standards but I am the wrong side of 45 years old and only started cycling again last January so I'm reasonably happy with that.


Wrong, it gets easier, and you get faster to a point, then has been mentioned you really have to work at it, I manage 15.5-16.5 on most rides, and I am 50.


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## Elybazza61 (17 Sep 2014)

Big Nick said:


> Heard a quote recently 'cycling doesn't get easier you just get faster'
> 
> I average around 14mph (on rides of 20-50 miles) which is slow by decent rider standards but I am the wrong side of 45 years old and only started cycling again last January so I'm reasonably happy with that.



That was Greg LeMond,he could cycle a bit;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond

As for getting quicker well I only started this lark again about this time last year;then I could barely crawl around a 10 mile circuit now I can do 40-80 mile rides(and one 100 so far) and can usually keep an average of 18mph sometimes more on a club run which is not bad for a 53 year old.
Oh and it will get harder at some point and there will be times when you'll seem like you're riding into a brick wall but as someone on a club ride said after a climb at the end of a ride "it's character building"

Just stick at it

Oh and Strava is very,very,very addictive especially if there is other bods you know on there


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## cyberknight (17 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Wrong, it gets easier, and you get faster to a point, then has been mentioned you really have to work at it, I manage 15.5-16.5 on most rides, and I am 50.


The ride leader of the slow mercia club run just turned 70 , and one the leaders of the medium run is mid 60s and apart from hills he can still turn a fair lick .


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## Nigelnaturist (17 Sep 2014)

cyberknight said:


> The ride leader of the slow mercia club run just turned 70 , and one the leaders of the medium run is mid 60s and apart from hills he can still turn a fair lick .


I ride a Viking, though its noting like it was when I got it, its just the weight that really lets it down now, and as I don't have n+1 it has mudguards on all the time and a rack a good chunk of time too, but I managing about 16mph on a 38-40ft/mile ride, well thats what pretty much what I did tonight 15.8mph over 19.16 miles and 39ft/mile not bad to say I have had two weeks off one of them in bed, I have managed 17+mph on rides but these are pretty flat, to be honest I was quite pleased as I didn't do much in Aug either, just need to get out a bit and get my HR down abit now.


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## bpsmith (18 Sep 2014)

Going fast and burning fat/losing weight doesn't go hand in hand. Studies show that riding at a lower effort and for longer periods burns fat for fuel. Doing faster but shorter rides burns sugar.

Apparently, you can't do both at any one time.


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## dee.jay (18 Sep 2014)

That's fine by me - surely by losing weight then it'll be easier to go quicker.

So the key to getting quicker is to stay going slow.... I think


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## Archie_tect (18 Sep 2014)

For me, it's not so much the average speed increasing but my stamina improving to get up the hills easier. When I started on my son's old mountain bike I had to grind every slope in the lowest possible gear + stop at the top of the two hills on a 6 mile ride. Then I got my 33 year old 10 speed Dawes racing bike back on the road, even on the lower 42 chainring and a 12-32 freewheel things were easier. Then I bought jayonabike's Specialized Secteur Comp and it's easier again.

Now with the tandem and Mrs A_T on the back we can fly up the 2 hills on the middle chainring. We do 25, 27 and 32 mile rides without getting tired or sore knees.

Breathing patterns work for me: 2 pedal turns breathing in, two breathing out and keep going.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

bpsmith said:


> Going fast and burning fat/losing weight doesn't go hand in hand. Studies show that riding at a lower effort and for longer periods burns fat for fuel. Doing faster but shorter rides burns sugar.
> 
> Apparently, you can't do both at any one time.


Its more about keeping the H.R. down than going slow, as you become fitter you can maintain a higher speed at a lower HR, losing weight helps with this as you don't need to work as hard, so whilst you will always lose more fat at a lower HR it doesn't mean you can't go faster as you increase in fitness and still lose fat at the same rate.


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## Leodis (18 Sep 2014)

Spin to win!!


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## bpsmith (18 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Its more about keeping the H.R. down than going slow, as you become fitter you can maintain a higher speed at a lower HR, losing weight helps with this as you don't need to work as hard, so whilst you will always lose more fat at a lower HR it doesn't mean you can't go faster as you increase in fitness and still lose fat at the same rate.



That's what I meant by riding at a lower effort. Didn't explain well I guess. Totally agree on the rising faster as you get fitter whilst HR remaining lower.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

@bpsmith just a quick rough table showing AvgHr and FatCals as a % and fat weight loss in grms, I dont suspect this is in anyway accurate, but it does certain relationships mainly the lower HR and more fat cals used


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## dee.jay (18 Sep 2014)

I'm very pleased I've started this thread, lots of good debate going on here.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

What are you doing in here, you should be out on the bike


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## Mo1959 (18 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @bpsmith just a quick rough table showing AvgHr and FatCals as a % and fat weight loss in grms, I dont suspect this is in anyway accurate, but it does certain relationships mainly the lower HR and more fat cals used
> View attachment 56687


That's good Nigel. I have a good excuse for taking it nice and easy once I get going again.  Need to stop eating so much and drop the weight a bit again anyway.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

There is never a better time to start losing excess weight than right now.


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## Mo1959 (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> There is never a better time to start losing excess weight than right now.


Too much comfort eating with not being able to cycle I'm afraid. So double whammy of lack of exercise and too much food equals about eight or nine pounds on.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

Mo1959 said:


> Too much comfort eating with not being able to cycle I'm afraid. So double whammy of lack of exercise and too much food equals about eight or nine pounds on.



Try getting the comfort from the weight coming off, it does put a bigger smile on your face.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Try getting the comfort from the weight coming off, it does put a bigger smile on your face.


Don't help if you can't actually ride.
@Mo1959 thats no great weight.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Don't help if you can't actually ride.
> @Mo1959 thats no great weight.



Not quite sure what you mean.


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## vickster (18 Sep 2014)

I think Mo is injured right now, hence unable to cycle


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

That should not stop her from correcting the diet. I was not trying to be flippant, I was merely pointing out what I feel is real. Once a habit is formed it is hard to break.
MO I sure hope you recover soon and get back on the bike.


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## vickster (18 Sep 2014)

No but if struggling with the aftermath of the accident, it's very easy to turn to food for comfort, boredom of not being able to get out and about compounds the issue. Been there all year myself  Correcting diet and losing weight isn't always black and white


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## Mo1959 (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> That should not stop her from correcting the diet. I was not trying to be flippant, I was merely pointing out what I feel is real. Once a habit is formed it is hard to break.
> MO I sure hope you recover soon and get back on the bike.


Thanks. I know what you meant but I find it really hard to cut back on food and found I was able to almost eat what I wanted when I was doing decent mileage so I've carried on eating as much but not exercising other than walking so the inevitable happened. Lol


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

Try cold porridge, sounds horrible tastes fantastic and satisfied the munchies.

I lost my way for a couple of years, I have now lost the 5 stone I put on after arthritis put paid to racing and lots of training.

The buzz I get from seeing a slim guy in the mirror is way better than ever a cake or 5 could.


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## Mo1959 (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Try cold porridge, sounds horrible tastes fantastic and satisfied the munchies.
> 
> I lost my way for a couple of years, I have now lost the 5 stone I put on after arthritis put paid to racing and lots of training.
> 
> The buzz I get from seeing a slim guy in the mirror is way better than ever a cake or 5 could.


That's actually something that the farm workers used to do years ago. Put slabs of it in their piece box. Lol.


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Not quite sure what you mean.


I know you weren't, its not always so easy as @vickster says. Its just that when you can't exercise weight can be an issue and diets can be funny things, I can eat like a horse sometimes and really doesn't matter what I eat, 6ft and 12 1/2 st or there about.


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## screenman (18 Sep 2014)

I know how easy putting weight on is, but once it starts to go on then the quicker we stop the better.

Do you disagree with that?


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> I know how easy putting weight on is, but once it starts to go on then the quicker we stop the better.
> 
> Do you disagree with that?


Not at all, I have had to have a couple enforced weeks off this year and Aug did very little, I have put a few pounds, but I don't fret about it as I know when I start to pick things up a little it really is a none issue but thats me, I am more concerned about the benefits my mental health gets from cycling, I have been quite suicidal these last 6 weeks or so, part of the reason my mileage dropped in Aug and the last two weeks didn't help stuck in bed for virtually the first week, and I managed to get out yesterday and felt so much better, still a long way to go.


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## Andy Jeffery (18 Sep 2014)

Hi Started last Oct. My average was 12.5mph. Since then I joined a friendly club and tonight's run of 27 miles came in at 19.1 mph. I'm still fat but have lost a little weight. Week clubs rubs are fast and furious weekend ones are slower so I get to look up and around. It really does not matter how fast you go what's important is to enjoy cycling. Who cares how fast it is as long as your having FUN and are SAFE.

Cheers Andy


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## Nigelnaturist (18 Sep 2014)

@Andy Jeffery best I did over a month was just over 17mph all be it on a bike weighing over 12.5Kg, but I average around 16 these days, but on strava I am as fast as some of the local guys riding £3,000 bikes.

Edit Revise that weight weighed the bike today just under 16Kg's guars, rack, saddle bag and rear bag with a few bits in, and I set a couple of up hill p.b's

http://www.strava.com/activities/196645054/segments/4629134932
http://www.strava.com/activities/196645054/segments/4629134914


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## jefmcg (19 Sep 2014)

isn't the fat burning zone completely debunked? You may burn a higher percentage of fat at a slower rate, but at a faster rate, you burn more total calories and more absolute calories from fat. And you boost your metabolism so that you burn more calories at rest.







The higher intensity is burning more calories *and* more calories from fat. 

This seems like quite a good explanation


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

jefmcg said:


> isn't the fat burning zone completely debunked? You may burn a higher percentage of fat at a slower rate, but at a faster rate, you burn more total calories and more absolute calories from fat. And you boost your metabolism so that you burn more calories at rest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes sense. If you were to spend the same time doing the exercise.

If we assume that we were to cycle until our energy was used, and take your 300 calorie example as being what's available, then we would cycle 1.5 times as long.

If you were able to cycle 1.5 times longer at the slower HR, then your fat calories burn would be 180, which is significantly more than 135. In fact it's 33.33333% more...


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## Joshua Plumtree (19 Sep 2014)

It's comparatively easy to spend all day in the saddle on a Saturday at those lower numbers (60-70 mhr); try upping the heart rate figures even a little and it becomes much harder.

Five hours at 200 calories = 1000, now try maintaining those higher figures for 3 hours - even if you could, still only be 900 calories and , according to your chart, burning less fat as a percentage.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

I'll try and simplify it the best that I can in laymans term. The body stores enough carbs for around 90mins of exercise I think is 400g area, In fat burning mode 60%mhr, the body can easily break down fats and turn it into carbs which means you can just plod along all day, as you get into the threshold mhr limits the body cannot break down the fats quickly enough so uses existing carbs/proteins already circulating in the body, as you are burning more carbs than your body break down from fat, the 400g store depletes rapidly, this is where the problems start, the body cant break down the fats quickly enough, while the fats are being broken down they are in acidic state, in threshold mhr limits the acidic fats get transported around the body, this is when you feel you legs burning, and you feel like crap, and your legs ache for days after.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> I'll try and simplify it the best that I can in laymans term. The body stores enough carbs for around 90mins of exercise I think is 400g area, In fat burning mode 60%mhr, the body can easily break down fats and turn it into carbs which means you can just plod along all day, as you get into the threshold mhr limits the body cannot break down the fats quickly enough so uses existing carbs/proteins already circulating in the body, as you are burning more carbs than your body break down from fat, the 400g store depletes rapidly, this is where the problems start, the body cant break down the fats quickly enough, while the fats are being broken down they are in acidic state, in threshold mhr limits the acidic fats get transported around the body, this is when you feel you legs burning, and you feel like crap, *and your legs ache for days after*.


This is as likely to be muscle repair, because I can work at 80-85%mHr and not ache not an exhaustive table and needs a little refinement.I take my MHR as 183 as this has been recorded a few times.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> This is as likely to be muscle repair, because I can work at 80-85%mHr and not ache not an exhaustive table and needs a little refinement.I take my MHR as 183 as this has been recorded a few times.
> View attachment 56756


I was trying to point out the effects of the fat burn rather than muscle damage side Nigel, I think acid build up has an effect on how the muscles feel post ride and the muscle recovery, yes there is muscle damage, I should have been clearer sorry


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## Archie_tect (19 Sep 2014)

It all depends on how much time you cabn spend... I can only get about an hour of cycling in every 2 or 3 days- so for me going as fast as I can [if I feel like it!] makes sense.


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Try cold porridge, sounds horrible tastes fantastic and satisfied the munchies.





Mo1959 said:


> That's actually something that the farm workers used to do years ago. Put slabs of it in their piece box. Lol.


My mum told me that they had a 'porridge drawer' in the family croft. Her granny used to make a drawer of porridge in the evening and her uncles used to cut off porridge slabs next morning, wrap them in brown paper and take them out into the fields for their breaks.


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2014)

jefmcg said:


>


That table is WAY low! Low intensity cycling burns more like 400/cals an hour and high intensity probably 600 - 1,000 cals an hour.


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## vickster (19 Sep 2014)

Presumably depending on the individual however?

Personally, I go for 30-40 per mile, so at 13-15 miles an hour average, 400-500. I can't imagine how I'd get to 1000 an hour!


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2014)

vickster said:


> Presumably depending on the individual however?
> 
> Personally, I go for 30-40 per mile, so at 13-15 miles an hour average, 400-500. I can't imagine how I'd get to 1000 an hour!


My guesstimate for me (based on weight loss on long rides) is 45 cals/mile. On a flat road on a still day, I could probably average 18+ mph for a long time, so that would be 800+ cals/hour. There are people who ride an awful lot quicker than that!


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## vickster (19 Sep 2014)

I don't lose any weight on long rides...cycling alone seems to have no impact other than making my legs muscly and sore mostly!

I believe gender plays quite a big role here, no clue on the science except we seem to have a lower BMR

Using this based on my height, weight and age ...if female, 1660 cals per day BMR, male 1826...seems unfair, that's half a pain au raisin** 

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator

(not that it is possible to eat only half a pain au raisin of course  )


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

For me, using the above link, I can't even eat half of one at 1650 cals per day @vickster.


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## Cuchilo (19 Sep 2014)

Mine says 1'397 but I aint eating no raisins  so far today ive had three fried eggs and two sausages . Oh and four chunks of dairy milk chocolate but it had nuts in it so it doesn't count


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## ColinJ (19 Sep 2014)

vickster said:


> I don't lose any weight on long rides...cycling alone seems to have no impact other than making my legs muscly and sore mostly!


I lose about 1 pound on an imperial century and 1+1/4 pounds on a '200'. That is as measured a couple of days later, after rehydrating and pigging out. Immediately post-ride I could easily be 6 or 7 pounds lighter, despite drinking 3-4 litres on the ride and eating whatever I fancied.


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## vickster (19 Sep 2014)

Lucky you!


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

ColinJ said:


> My guesstimate for me (based on weight loss on long rides) is 45 cals/mile. On a flat road on a still day, I could probably average 18+ mph for a long time, so that would be 800+ cals/hour. There are people who ride an awful lot quicker than that!


From the data I have and this is using two different units the Rider 20 seems to slightly higher than the Edge 500 I had
Per mile avg 48.5, per hr 713 of those about 25% are fat according to the data from Brytons site. with an avg speed over all that of just over 15mph.

I did the maths based on my data and I would need something like 350 miles to lose a lb


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

I know a dietitian, who once told me as I struggle with weight "Did you ever see a fat person in a nazi concentration camp, you eat less calories and you will lose weight" Harsh comment but true, If you are at a constant weight, add up the calories that maintain your usual weight, then reduce the amount of calories, She advised me to aim at losing one pound a week, yes it worked, I lost 2 stone that way but the amount of calories I could eat was only 1700 calories, boy was I hungry all the time, the meales barely touched the sides of my stomach. BTW I put it all back on again


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> I know a dietitian, who once told me as I struggle with weight "Did you ever see a fat person in a nazi concentration camp, you eat less calories and you will lose weight" Harsh comment but true, If you are at a constant weight, add up the calories that maintain your usual weight, then reduce the amount of calories, She advised me to aim at losing one pound a week, yes it worked, I lost 2 stone that way but the amount of calories I could eat was only 1700 calories, boy was I hungry all the time, the meales barely touched the sides of my stomach. BTW I put it all back on again


It is I believe quoted at 3500cals per lb of body fat or a daily deficit of 500cals to lose 1lb in a week.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> It is I believe quoted at 3500cals per lb of body fat or a daily deficit of 500cals to lose 1lb in a week.


My pre diet calories for me to maintain 18 stone was 2200, my calorie intake to maintain a target weight of 15 stone were 1700 cals (non exercise days). To be honest staying on the diet wasn't a priority when my mrs became ill again earlier this year, which is the main reason the weight went back on again. So long as the bike doesn't collapse under the strain then I'm all good


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> My pre diet calories for me to maintain 18 stone was 2200, my calorie intake to maintain a target weight of 15 stone were 1700 cals (non exercise days). To be honest staying on the diet wasn't a priority when my mrs became ill again earlier this year, which is the main reason the weight went back on again. So long as the bike doesn't collapse under the strain then I'm all good


I find my riding I lose weight but its not really an issue, in other words i didn't set out to lose weight cycling it was just a side effect, I personally don't think a bit of extra weight is really an issue apart from things in cycling like hills, as cycling will give you a much better cardiovascular system which will then cope better with some extra weight, but thats just a personal view. I don't really watch what I eat so long as i get enough carbs/sugar/salt to cope with what I ride, which until recently can be in excess of 7-800 miles a month, it really only is illness that stops me doing that, so going on some figures I sort of worked keeps in check about 2lb a month, the thing is it likely due to my illness I do not eat well sometimes.

Just to revise the weight of the bike, weighed the bike today just under 16Kg's guars, rack, saddle bag and rear bag with a few bits in, and I set a couple of up hill p.b's, got very little else mind you.

http://www.strava.com/activities/196645054/segments/4629134932
http://www.strava.com/activities/196645054/segments/4629134914


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

My cycling side effect is I eat more  I don't eat unhealthily but I do like my food


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## screenman (19 Sep 2014)

If you are overweight then surely you are eating in a unhealthy way.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

not unhealthily as in junk food, more as in I eat more calories than my body needs in "good" food, <<< Do I look like I live on burgers lol?


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

@screenman I eat almost anything, though for the most part pretty good, but last night I had chips about 5 fried eggs, and then 3/4's of a donner calazonie pizza, and set a couple of p.b.'s going up hill with a bike weighing 16Kg's


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

I'd blow up like a puffer fish after eating that Nigel.....(Drooling)


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

That's impressive. Eating all that whilst cycling uphill @Nigelnaturist


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

bpsmith said:


> That's impressive. Eating all that whilst cycling uphill @Nigelnaturist



^then set

Edit the p.b.'s were today not last night


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> I'd blow up like a puffer fish after eating that Nigel.....(Drooling)


Told you can eat for England me, my biggest weight gain was when I used to drink (seriously I had a drink dependency)


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> ^then set
> 
> Edit the p.b.'s were today not last night



Carb loading my mate calls it!

I just had a Beer and a Chinese. Will see how I get on in the morning.


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## screenman (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @screenman I eat almost anything, though for the most part pretty good, but last night I had chips about 5 fried eggs, and then 3/4's of a donner calazonie pizza, and set a couple of p.b.'s going up hill with a bike weighing 16Kg's



Fine, try it 20 days on the trot and let us know the results. Maybe you should sell your tips to Froomie.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

bpsmith said:


> Carb loading my mate calls it!
> 
> I just had a Beer and a Chinese. Will see how I get on in the morning.


I am not off out tomorrow, a bit sore from the infection I have had recently, but might feel better tomorrow, at the min I am just turning the legs over on some short rides, avg H.R. has gone up from 136 in July to this month of 146. 
2/9 it was 134bpm over 28 miles @ 16.21mph with a 33.6ft/mile climb rate ( a bit below my normal climb rate), first day back after the two weeks off, 17/9 19.16 miles @ 15.78mph and 38.99ft/mile (about my normal) it was 153bpm. Avg for the year is 141bpm with 36.7ft/mile avg.
This is how I know I have lost a little fitness because two weeks doesn't really show in speed or climbing and I dont feel much worse, but its the figures that show it.


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## dee.jay (19 Sep 2014)

I've found that even after 12 mile rides, the recovery time is very quick (i.e. when I stop feeling knackered) 

Tomorrow will be out for another ride, on the flat down at the seafront hopefully.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Fine, try it 20 days on the trot and let us know the results. Maybe you should sell your tips to Froomie.


Read the first part as in "I eat almost anything, *though for the most part pretty good*", I ride for leisure/transport/fitness, my overall weight is pretty good at about 12 1/2st and 6ft, I am not obsessive enough to own scales, only those that can weigh the bike, and then only because they are luggage scales, though I possible know the weight of all the components on the bike as I weigh them before fitting, but not obsessive about keeping the bike light, I just like to know.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

In my teens and early twenties I ate junk without an ounce of fat on me, gym to keep in shape
mid forties and even the smell of a kebab and it's puffer fish time. I don't do the gym/weights anymore not done for a long long time, tried the gym again a couple of years ago but it bored the Sh** out of me, much prefer the outdoors exercise.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

dee.jay said:


> I've found that even after 12 mile rides, the recovery time is very quick (i.e. when I stop feeling knackered)
> 
> Tomorrow will be out for another ride, on the flat down at the seafront hopefully.


There will come a time even after a climb as soon as the gradient starts to easy you start to recover, your body can get that fit and I smoke but then the gradients here are generally either not very bad or very long.
This isn't a bad little climb http://www.strava.com/activities/196645054/analysis/111/156 and you will that after the 5% bit I start to recover, but then HR/Cad remains pretty constant, and this was a new p.b.


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## Cuchilo (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @screenman I eat almost anything, though for the most part pretty good, but last night I had chips about 5 fried eggs, and then 3/4's of a donner calazonie pizza, and set a couple of p.b.'s going up hill with a bike weighing 16Kg's


I would be sick if I ate that much . I would just stop eating to be honest as the chips and eggs would be more than enough to fill me up .
That's not an opinion it's how MY body works .


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Big_Dave said:


> In my teens and early twenties I ate junk without an ounce of fat on me, gym to keep in shape
> mid forties and even the smell of a kebab and it's puffer fish time. I don't do the gym/weights anymore not done for a long long time, tried the gym again a couple of years ago but it bored the Sh** out of me, much prefer the outdoors exercise.


I couldn't do the gym (head wise) besides I have always prefered riding on the road, though didn't do much from about 96-2008 and then from 2008-2012 you get the idea.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

Cuchilo said:


> I would be sick if I ate that much . I would just stop eating to be honest as the chips and eggs would be more than enough to fill me up .
> That's not an opinion it's how MY body works .


We are all different, but like I say I can regually do in excess of 800+ miles a month, this year is down on last as I had a bad winter, then April I lost two weeks this month I have lost two weeks ( I can't do the distance pain wise to do 50+ mile rides yet) and did next to nothing ( for me) in Aug, 
All in all though the weight looks after itself.


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## Big_Dave (19 Sep 2014)

800/month I think I need to get out more


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

@Big_Dave remember I don't work so its pretty easy, and it helps my condition, and I haven't done it often this year though my max in a month was 1013.9miles in May, just seems to have been one thing after another since then, shifters you know about, illness time needed else where ect.
Quick little table since I started.


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## screenman (19 Sep 2014)

Are you retired Nigel, somehow I had you as somebody younger.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

screenman said:


> Are you retired Nigel, somehow I had you as somebody younger.


Not retired I was 50 last Feb, I suffer from mental health issues that need to be kept an eye on, part of which is borderline personality disorder, not as bad as it sounds, leastwise not at others, but can be very destructive at oneself (load of other stuff as well), this is where cycling really helps me more so than any weight issues, I get a buzz from riding like nothing my life has given me before, and its an area that is often overlooked when cycling and health issues are mentioned, mind you that might be also in part many people don't understand mental health issues in the same way as physical one.


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## The Mighty Boosh (19 Sep 2014)

wow this thread has become soooo techincal, keep riding and it will come lol


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

The Mighty Boosh said:


> wow this thread has become soooo techincal, keep riding and it will come lol


Sorry, I forget the main point sometimes.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

@The Mighty Boosh mind you I think the table shows speed comes naturally  all be it in my case not overly fast.


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## bpsmith (19 Sep 2014)

@Nigelnaturist You would be surprised how much cycling helps lots of people mentally, whether they realise it or not!

I used to get slightly obsessed with detailing my car. I would do multiple stages on each panel to get it looking amazing. People couldn't understand, but sometimes doing repetitive, non taxing, tasks lets your brain shut off for a while. It's not the task that you want to complete, but the time spent clearing yourself of thoughts. That has now translated into cycling for me, which is a much better use of time for obvious reasons. The bike is still spotless though! 

I have an Autistic Son, who is now 8. They say it's not hereditary, but so much more makes sense now, from witnessing him as a child. I am certainly on the spectrum too, but embrace it nowadays. It's far more productive!

I don't get to do the mileage you get, but would like to sometimes. I have 1,150 for 2014 in total, not just May. Lol.


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## dee.jay (19 Sep 2014)

Allowing the brain to shut off is wonderful. I find cycling allows me to shut off from all my troubles and I'm focussing on the ride. I love it.


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## Nigelnaturist (19 Sep 2014)

@dee.jay 
I don't have troubles in the way most people have in day to day life, and I understand there are many different forms of troubles, and whilst cycling does help and like this morning I was buzzing, it's getting to the stage even cycling, dark thoughts creep in, I suppose because I am at the level I am, hills and distance are not the problem they once were and I find I have more time to think apart from when there is more traffic, that doesn't mean I don't concentrate, but being a professional driver for most of the time I was working I have a quite a good understand of what other road users are likely to do (and on at least one occasion saved me for a possible serious injury) and can adjust my riding as needed.


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## Studley (19 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> Sorry, I forget the main point sometimes.


 
Slight understatement perhaps ?

Spent an hour reading this thread and the term 'off topic' doesn't come close.


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## dee.jay (19 Sep 2014)

I didn't mean troubles in any derogatory sense - we've all got our things in life we worry about


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## puffinbilly (19 Sep 2014)

As ever some excellent posts in this thread - I've done about 5000 miles in the past year on the bike and speed does pick up. I am looking to do 5000 miles this calendar year and because of commitments know I'll struggle to do much in the last three months so attempting my first 1000 mile month this month - on target hopefully with 600 miles so far. One benefit of this mileage is that my speed is increasing - having to push myself because of time constraints and currently using a hybrid because road bike stuck in the lakes and no time for 5 hour round trip to collect it.

Just seen that there is a Friday night ride from Carlisle to Newcastle tonight - would have loved to do this however only spotted this before eleven and they were meeting at Carlisle at eleven - oh well next year.

As ever @Nigelnaturist some excellent posts and great honesty about your situation that educates us - one question on the table you posted. You hsve average speed then snother field with maxavspd or something what's that?


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Sep 2014)

@dee.jay I know you weren't, it's difficult to phrase what I meant.
@puffinbilly its right the field header doesn't explain it clearly it is the max avg sp of any ride I did that month, for example my over all avg sp (based on total distance/total time not an avg of averages) might be say 15.8mph for the month but the max average speed, might be 16.5mph set on a ride say in the first or second week, does that explain it.
Its easy enough to do the same for max sp i.e. the avg max sp in a given time frame which would be lower than the max sp. Trust me there is so much you can do, I can play with it all day formatting tables forms making it work how I want even pivot tables (which unfortunately MS have dropped in the new version)
A monthly summery form or as you saw in table form.


Pivot table showing HR with Max HR, Avg Cad, gear inch avg distance per day ridden ( I may have more than one ride in a day) avg sp and the number of days I have ridden in a month, obviously the 208 max hr is a glitch.


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## Big_Dave (20 Sep 2014)

Studley said:


> Slight understatement perhaps ?
> 
> Spent an hour reading this thread and the term 'off topic' doesn't come close.



In a way it has, things do go way off topic, but we're all new to each other (I've been on here 2 months) on here, people are getting to know each other and what makes them "tick" who does what etc etc, we're all making new friends, I have to say this is the friendliest forum I have ever been on and everyone plays nicely together, we are all in the same boat, cycling is one big learning curve, this forum is a great place for beginners, I consider myself to be an experienced cyclist as an MTB rider, earlier this year I moved to road cycling and it was a whole new experience for me and a totally different way of cycling, We are all eagerly sharing our experiences, all forums go off topic with general banter, sorry if we went miles off topic though


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## Studley (20 Sep 2014)

QUOTE="Big_Dave, post: 3289252, member: 37533"]In a way it has, things do go way off topic, but we're all new to each other (I've been on here 2 months) on here, people are getting to know each other and what makes them "tick" who does what etc etc, we're all making new friends, I have to say this is the friendliest forum I have ever been on and everyone plays nicely together, we are all in the same boat, cycling is one big learning curve, this forum is a great place for beginners, I consider myself to be an experienced cyclist as an MTB rider, earlier this year I moved to road cycling and it was a whole new experience for me and a totally different way of cycling, We are all eagerly sharing our experiences, all forums go off topic with general banter, sorry if we went miles off topic though [/QUOTE]

Sorry if I came across as a stick in the mud type of guy, I'm all for being friendly and sharing in our experiences. I just found it a bit frustrating having to read 145 posts just to get at the 7 or 8 posts that had relevance to the thread. But hey, if that's ok with the OP and site mods them who am I to say. 

I've been cycling for around 3 months and in that time I've gone from doing an average of 9.5mph to an average of 11.5mph. The first 6 weeks I didn't really bother with my speeds or distance, I was concentrating purely on getting my cardiovascualr system functioning better and getting some strength back in my legs. This was the most painful and un-enjoyable part and was also the part where I could easily have chucked the bike in the shed and resigned it to a life of darkness. In the 10yrs prior to cycling I'd been spending ALL day and evening just sitting at home, working eating and smoking which led to me having 2 angioplasts in my groin as my calves were siezing up after walking more than 200yds.
After week 6 I started to plot my average speed, distance, max speed and time spent cycling using a cheapo cycle computer. I think it was this that really encouraged me to carry on cycling, seeing my average speed and distances rise showed me I was getting fitter, and even though they were small gains it was enough to make me want to push more when I came to the last 10% of the ride. The other 90% I try to enjoy the experience.
Still a complete novice in comparison to many on here but ya godda start somewhere.


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## Nigelnaturist (20 Sep 2014)

@Studley I think you might find most of it was relevant to naturally increase in speed, as your body gets fiiter it uses cals in different ways and its what I tried to show in the tables, and other stuff that is relevant but not necessarily understood, and I apologize it came out so long winded.
Sorry about this, this was my very first ride and like you it hurt and continued hurting for the best part of a year.






This was Fridays totals, nothing great really, but I couldn't have done this sort of speed, not even after 9 months.





I think that is what the O.P. was getting at about a gradual continuous improvement.

Edit and take note of my max HR when you consider I am 50 it should be in the region of 170'ish


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## ColinJ (20 Sep 2014)

Studley said:


> Sorry if I came across as a stick in the mud type of guy, I'm all for being friendly and sharing in our experiences. I just found it a bit frustrating having to read 145 posts just to get at the 7 or 8 posts that had relevance to the thread. But hey, if that's ok with the OP and site mods them who am I to say.


I have been on a forum which applied strict moderation and lasted about 2 days!

The mods were little Hitlers who jumped on whatever they declared to be 'off topic' posts. An example of 'off topic' was me pointing out that the final post in a thread which had been declared 'resolved' was in fact in error. I was given a formal warning.

When I queried the warning, I got a final warning and was told that if I ever found what I thought was an error like that, I should start another thread in which I could say that I found a mistake in the original thread. Ridiculous!

I was also told that questioning a mod's decision was an offence punishable by a lifetime ban. I felt like going on one last time to post "You must be completely stupid if you think that makes sense!" but decided to just give up so I 'banned' myself!


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## dee.jay (21 Sep 2014)

I like generating debate and personally going trhough 7 pages of stuff is totally no problem to me. To be honest I didn't think I would get this many replies 

I'm very grateful.


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## Studley (21 Sep 2014)

Nigelnaturist said:


> @Studley I think you might find most of it was relevant to naturally increase in speed, as your body gets fiiter it uses cals in different ways and its what I tried to show in the tables, and other stuff that is relevant but not necessarily understood, and I apologize it came out so long winded.
> Sorry about this, this was my very first ride and like you it hurt and continued hurting for the best part of a year.
> View attachment 56893
> 
> ...


 
That's not quite actually true Nigel, regardless of getting fitter or not, the body uses cals in exactly the same way. Fitter or not, you eat too many calories and you will store some excess in fat, fitter or not, your body converts calories to energy and will store excess calories. What actually happens when you get fitter is your body becomes more proficient at doing this. Your muscles will adapt to store more readily available carbs and your metabolism will generate more energy whilst using less energy to generate it.


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## Mike J (21 Sep 2014)

Studley said:


> That's not quite actually true Nigel, regardless of getting fitter or not, the body uses cals in exactly the same way. Fitter or not, you eat too many calories and you will store some excess in fat, fitter or not, your body converts calories to energy and will store excess calories. What actually happens when you get fitter is your body becomes more proficient at doing this. Your muscles will adapt to store more readily available carbs and your metabolism will generate more energy whilst using less energy to generate it.



Does this mean that if you exercise regularly then stop, that you will gain weight quicker as your body is storing energy expecting you to use it for your exercise?


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## Studley (21 Sep 2014)

Initially no, the muscles only store the same amount of carbs and won't store more because you've stopped exercising. But, if you continue eating the same amount of calories then yes, you probably will. It will convert some of the unused calories to fat storage.


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## Nigelnaturist (21 Sep 2014)

@Studley not entirely wrong either, may I should have said the rate at which you body uses them in relation to how fit you are, because if fitter you will use more fat cals because of the lower HR.


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## Studley (21 Sep 2014)

I'm no expert on the subject but I would say that the relationship between fitness and using fat cals is more to do with the increased exercise undertaken as a result of being fitter, not just being fitter. You will use more fat cals because you've upped your metabolic rate, not lowered your HR. At the end of the day, even if you are super duper fit with a HR of 35bpm, if you eat too many calories you will store fat. imho


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## Nigelnaturist (21 Sep 2014)

@Studley I can only go off the data I have and whilst not very scientific due to the level of equipment, I always burn more fat cals at a lower HR than at a higher one.


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## Studley (21 Sep 2014)

Well, I 'aint no scientist so can't comment on the rigour of the data from that perspective but, looking at the 49.47% Fatcals I'd suggest that it might possibly be as a result of your carbs-fats intake ratio being almost 50-50 ?

How do you work out the percentage of cals carb to calsfat used ? Surely you'd need to know precisely what your BMI and body composition is at all times ?


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## Nigelnaturist (21 Sep 2014)

Studley said:


> Well, I 'aint no scientist so can't comment on the rigour of the data from that perspective but, looking at the 49.47% Fatcals I'd suggest that it might possibly be as a result of your carbs-fats intake ratio being almost 50-50 ?
> 
> How do you work out the percentage of cals carb to calsfat used ? Surely you'd need to know precisely what your BMI and body composition is at all times ?


That was only into town and back 200ft in just over 2 miles, with a break in the middle so probably isn't the most reliably bit of data. I have just done pretty much the same thing I will see later what its like. The R20 defaults to 50% on each without the HR monitor.


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