# A Moulton Thread



## Heltor Chasca (11 May 2018)

Well maybe a self help thread.

I have been doing a bit of daydreaming about Moultons. Not the vintage ones, but the new fangled pylon style ones.

They aren’t officially a folder, so it doesn’t tick that box. But you can get one into a suitcase for long haul travel. But then when you get there, are they going to be any good as a long distance tourer? And how on earth do you load them up with luggage?

They look efficient and fast so I would imagine they could be fun on an Audax although I have ne er seen one on an event. Aside from the sheer and utter beauty of these quirky machines, I can’t really think of any other reasons to own one.

Are there any Moulton fanatics on here? What say you?


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Well maybe a self help thread.
> 
> I have been doing a bit of daydreaming about Moultons. Not the vintage ones, but the new fangled pylon style ones.
> 
> ...


I too have been dreaming of owning a Moulton, I have no idea how quickly they go together, I don’t really need a folder, but I do have a Brompton, so wants usually override needs, but I would like something that I could fit in the car easily to do some rides further afield, then reload and drive home.


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

I've owned two TSR's and currently own an AM. I've owned a few retro models along the way.

You can have a platform carrier on the front and rear or a platform on the front and a pannier carrier on the front. I did LEJOG self supported on a TSR and have done many audaxs on them.

What do you want to know?


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## Heltor Chasca (11 May 2018)

fossala said:


> I've owned two TSR's and currently own an AM. I've owned a few retro models along the way.
> 
> You can have a platform carrier on the front and rear or a platform on the front and a pannier carrier on the front. I did LEJOG self supported on a TSR and have done many audaxs on them.
> 
> ...



Lovely. It’s just a fascination for a beautiful machine in this 5 minutes. When my youngest is old enough to cycle further, I would sell my Surly Big Dummy before I could sponsor any sort of purchase. For now I am just curious. I have also always loved the Surly Troll.

If I suddenly had a change in financial circumstances, I think the TSR 22 makes a good value point. And if I won the lottery it would be a NS double pylon. DROOL.


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

I would look into the SST, if fixes a few shortfalls of the TSR. I have a Surly Pugsley as well, lovely bike. Non of my bikes have been touched since buying my recumbent though.


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

fossala said:


> I've owned two TSR's and currently own an AM. I've owned a few retro models along the way.
> 
> You can have a platform carrier on the front and rear or a platform on the front and a pannier carrier on the front. I did LEJOG self supported on a TSR and have done many audaxs on them.
> 
> ...



How big is that chainring on the blue one?


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

Ianboydsnr said:


> How big is that chainring on the blue one?


70t


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## Richard A Thackeray (11 May 2018)

Coincidentally, there was a Moulton at one of the bike-shelters at work on Tuesday
Not sure what model

Can this be seen?


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## Ianboydsnr (11 May 2018)

fossala said:


> 70t



Wow.


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## Heltor Chasca (11 May 2018)

fossala said:


> I would look into the SST, if fixes a few shortfalls of the TSR. I have a Surly Pugsley as well, lovely bike. Non of my bikes have been touched since buying my recumbent though.



Very nice. I’ll have a 105 in Airforce Blue please. And in a few years, let me know if your Moulton goes on sale.


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

Heltor Chasca said:


> Very nice. I’ll have a 105 in Airforce Blue please. And in a few years, let me know if your Moulton goes on sale.


My AM is a keeper, it's a rare model with the rear suspension that is on the pylon models.


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

Richard A Thackeray said:


> Coincidentally, there was a Moulton at one of the bike-shelters at work on Tuesday
> Not sure what model
> 
> Can this be seen?



That is an APB. It's the first attempt that Pashley had at making Moulton bicycles under licence. They used a modified version of a jig the BOA factory used for making the AM-ATB. I've had one and would pick a F-frame Moulton over them. Apparently the later models (fx-8) are a bit better.


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## fossala (11 May 2018)

Even with my love for Moultons, Alex Moulton wasn't the best engineer and released many models with flaws in them. I know this isn't the most popular opinion with other Moulton owners but it's true. I posted the following in another thread but will re-post it here

TSR has an offset pivot and the bearing interface is too small to take the uneven load. This causes it to come loose and can wear the pivot. This was fixed with the SST by increasing the surface area by 150% yet they still sell the faulty TSR
APB suspension is too low, can lead to seat tube collapsing.
Series 1 rear forks not being strong enough with almost all forks that have had regular use snapping.
Early series 1 front forks where not brazed correctly. It is common for the steerer to detach from the forks while riding where the brass hasn't fully flowed.
Paint on new models come of if you sneeze near them.
Moulton TSRs didn't have bump stops large enough at some point (don't know years that where affected), this meant that the forks banged into the leading link plates damaging the forks. This happened to me and Moulton refused to warranty them until I threatened legal action. IMO the damage that happened to my forks and them knowing it was a design fault that could lead to sudden failuer should result in complete recall and replacement.
Stainless steel New series rusting through.
£500 stems that go rusty in a year, their answer is to smother them all over in thin grease.
Faulty rear flexitor on New Series that was leant to Bicycle Quarterly and ended up with a bad review. Moulton only fixed on proviso that the owner wouldn't lend out for review again...
Early AM fork where too weak so they changed the design so there wasn't any taper.
Bridgestone Moulton rear forks can break at the pivot. I guess this is because the aluminium can't take the flex.

There's more but I can't think of any off the top of my head.


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## chriscross1966 (12 May 2018)

fossala said:


> That is an APB. It's the first attempt that Pashley had at making Moulton bicycles under licence. They used a modified version of a jig the BOA factory used for making the AM-ATB. I've had one and would pick a F-frame Moulton over them. Apparently the later models (fx-8) are a bit better.



Yeah, always thought it weird the way tatty APB's sell for multiples of what decent and usable F-frames seem to fetch, the prices usable Mini's go for is ridiculous for something that well made....


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## fossala (12 May 2018)

chriscross1966 said:


> Yeah, always thought it weird the way tatty APB's sell for multiples of what decent and usable F-frames seem to fetch, the prices usable Mini's go for is ridiculous for something that well made....


I think mk3s ride better than TSRs, nearly as good as an AM when you put 17" wheels on it. They're the best looking Moulton in my opinion as well. They aren't that cheap though.


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## steveindenmark (9 Jun 2018)

Fossala. You obviously know a lot about them. If you were going to buy a model. Which one would it be?

With regards to luggage. There are many bike packing bags that will fit on the seatpost. I use a Bridge Street bag which is waterproof and very solid.


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## rogerzilla (5 Nov 2018)

The TSR line looks superficially similar to the AM series but the frames are quite different: the outer tubes on a TSR are "hairpins" that wrap around the head tube and seat tube, while the infill zig-zags are rods, not tubes. As these very thin rods would not be much use in compression, I don't believe it's a real spaceframe and the extra width of the hairpins (due to the wrap around) makes the infill pieces fairly redundant anyway, as far as stiffness is concerned. 

The AM frame is more likely to be a spaceframe as the infill tubes could take a reasonable amount of compression without Euler buckling, so the frame sections can act as a truss to resist lateral forces.

Both frame designs work fine but the TSR's is probably made that way to look like an AM rather than for any good engineering reason.


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## steveindenmark (11 Nov 2018)

I saw this in Bromton Junction, Hamburg on Friday.


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## rogerzilla (12 Nov 2018)

Someone's trying to sell a 20" Moulton as a "vintage bike" over on fleaBay. Nice pics but it's just an APB, and a rather undergeared one at that. Probably worth £800 to the right bidder.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/223221809830


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