# Advice please



## dave249 (3 Dec 2012)

I'm thinking of getting a recumbent. I initially became interested because I have a back condition that means that I get a very sore neck after about 1.5hrs on a conventional road bike. However, after doing a bit research I am also attracted by the efficiency and comfort factors. 

My main concern is how good are they at going up hill and is there a limit to the gradient that they can handle? I live on the edge of the North York Moors and most rides are characterised by short, sharp climbs, typically of 10-15% 

Also, is they any recumbent riders out there in the Teesside area and does anybody know of a recumbent dealer. Nearest I can find is Edinburgh.

Thanks


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## byegad (3 Dec 2012)

I live in County Durham and ride the Yorkshire Dales and NY Moors as well Weardale and Teesdale. I'm 61, Asthmatic, overweight and never the fastest climber even in my younger fitter days. So I ride recumbent trikes. On a trike you never can go slow enough and so with the right gearing 33% grades such as Rosedale Chimney are climbable, even though I stop/start a lot on anything steeper than 20%!

I rode an AZUB-4 recumbent bike before I got my first trike and there was a limit to the steepness I could deal with on two wheels before I stalled. Restating on a very steep hill on two wheels was beyond me.

How old and fit are you?

As to dealers I've bought two of my trikes online, one was posted to me and needed some set up by me, another was delivered in person by the dealer and he made sure ut was spot on for me before he left. The third was bought from dealler, now defunct who made a complete hash of assembling the trike! Luckily I'm a competent enough mechanic to do almost anything on a bike and recumbents are fitted with mostly standard bike parts anyway.

If you are under 5'10" (I'm 5'7") and want to try one of my trikes pm me and maybe we could meet up.


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## arallsopp (3 Dec 2012)

Hiya. I'm sure others will chip in soon enough. To address your main concern, they're cr@p at going up hill.... I've got 4, ranging from a heavyweight 30 kilo beast, to a superlight carbon racer, and you know what? If I don't pedal, every single one of them grinds to a halt.

...which is to say that much like any bike, if you keep pedalling, it will climb. 

You can carry the fitness over from an upright, but 'bent legs take about 500 miles to really come in. Once you've got 'em, flat and rolling terrain is faster on a 'bent than an upright (for comparative effort), and climbs are mainly about technique. You can lie back and spin your way up (which is good on the knees and not much slower than a good upright) or you can charge it and hope to soar up before you lose momentum.

I'm a fan of the death or glory mode, and collect scalps daily on the local Cat 6 drag.

I've not yet met a gradient the 'bents won't climb. A nice wide range of gears will help save your knees. I run 30/34 on the bottom end, and 51/11 on the top. You need a nice long cage to take the slack out of the chain, and good balance to make use of a sub 3mph bottom end. I still spin out on the descents 

On my upright, I'm good for 16mph rolling up to about 25 miles. I can probably hit 30mph and maybe hold it for 10 seconds.

A few months back, the 'bent took me from London to Devon at a rolling 18mph average. This suggests I'm faster on the 'bent than an upright.*

* I'll admit my pace had dropped to 16.5mph by the time I hit Lands End, but, fair on, that was a 300 mile non stop effort, overnight, carrying camping gear


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## mrandmrspoves (3 Dec 2012)

dave249 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a recumbent. I initially became interested because I have a back condition that means that I get a very sore neck after about 1.5hrs on a conventional road bike. However, after doing a bit research I am also attracted by the efficiency and comfort factors.
> 
> My main concern is how good are they at going up hill and is there a limit to the gradient that they can handle? I live on the edge of the North York Moors and most rides are characterised by short, sharp climbs, typically of 10-15%
> 
> Thanks


 
I am probably the most recent Bent rider on here at the moment as mine arrived on Friday - so my thoughts so far....

I purchased my Bent because of severe shoulder pain, like you, I also experience neck pain after about an hour on a standard bike. I chose a model with under seat steering so that my arms could rest with no strain on my shoulders. The recumbent position means my neck is not extended upwards as it would be on a road bike - so this should be more comfortable for you. 
The seat means that my back and shoulders are supported and weight is distributed over a greater area. My Bent is a 1996 model so not exactly recent - the ride is smooth and comfortable but I can feel bumps transmitted from the road up my back. Many more recent Bents have some form of shock absorption on the back - but I cannot comment on how effective this is so will leave that for more experienced bent riders to comment on. 

My Linear weighs about 15kg unladen so I didn't expect it to climb hills like my Triban does........and it didn't!
Hills for me (Norfolk hills - not Yorkshire hills!!!!) are at the moment, a case of pick up as much speed on the downhill as possible and as soon as momentum has been almost lost, engage granny gear and spin like crazy to the top. One difficulty with this is I find it very hard to keep the Bent steady at very slow speeds going up the hills. 
It is important to point out that I have lost a good bit of my cycle fitness over the last few months as I couldn't cope with the pain - also I do expect that I will need to adjust to a different style of riding as it does feel that I am using different muscles on the Bent. 
I have found setting off a bit difficult - but am getting the hang of this. I think starting off from a hill would be a definite problem...on a bike but not so if you went for a trike. 
So to conclude, yes a bent will probably serve your needs well, it will be more difficult to get up hills quickly - but with the right gears this should not be insurmountable . 

I cannot say I am a total convert yet - but I can say that my 2 rides so far have been great fun and for me at the moment it is a Bent or nothing. While out on my ride yesterday, my friend asked me how my shoulders were coping and I honestly replied that they were more comfortable at that moment on the bent than they are when I lie down in bed.


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## dave249 (3 Dec 2012)

bygad said


> On a trike you never can go slow enough and so with the right gearing 33% grades such as Rosedale Chimney are climbable, even though I stop/start a lot on anything steeper than 20%!


 
Respect, I only just got up Rosedale Chimney on my MTB. Was literally seeing stars at the top! I am looking more towards a two wheeler. Mainly because a trike is too far from what I'm used to and also I would be nervous being so low I was below the window line if I'm sat next to a car at the lights.

arallsop said:


> Hiya. I'm sure others will chip in soon enough. To address your main concern, they're cr@p at going up hill.... I've got 4, ranging from a heavyweight 30 kilo beast, to a superlight carbon racer, and you know what? If I don't pedal, every single one of them grinds to a halt.


 
I take your point that it is the rider not the machine that gets you up the hill! My main concern is that on very steep hills, the sort where you are out of the saddle struggling to keep the cranks turning, can a recumbent cope without stalling or lifting the front wheel? This is obviously a rare situation but I would like to be able to ride with people on conventional road bikes wherever they go. Enjoyed your book by the way. 

Any recommendations for what bent I should be looking at? I know that this is a very personal thing and I need to try out first but as far as I can tell the nearest dealer is over 150 miles away so any suggestions to narrow down the choice would be appreciated. I am 47yrs, 5'9", 75kg and fairly inflexible in the hamstrings and quads. I'm looking for something suitable for commuting,long day rides and very light touring. I have been looking at the Raptobike Midracer and Challange Furai.


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## Scoosh (3 Dec 2012)

I am also a recent owner (2 months; maybe 10 rides) of a 'bent bike and find it more comfortable and, at present, more wobbly than an upright - not totally surprising, as I have been riding uprights for longer than 2 months ...  I have probably only done about 75km in total on the 'bent.

I use a system when the road goes a bit upward:

incline - hardly even noticeable
slope - need to change down quite a bit
hill - granny ring and in 3 lowest gears
vertical 
Currently, I have managed to convert two upwardly-inclined bits of road from 'hill' to 'slope' , while still having a number of local 'hills'; these 'hills' would be 'inclines' when adequately fit on my upright. 
I'm less wobbly than I was at the beginning but still hanker for my L plate on the back at times ... 

How steep a hill can a 'bent bike go up ? The first hill on the Snow Roads 300k audax is apparently an average of 6.8%; average, maybe but I know it is 15% in some bits (having been up and down it and seen the road signs). There are a few 'bent bike riders who do the SR and most manage it without stopping but I know one experienced rider who usually hops off and _runs_  the last few hundred metres, as it's a bit quicker !  They all manage the rest of the ride OK (well, as OK as is going to happen on a 300km audax with 4800m of climbing. ) They are _very, very_ quick down the hills, though !


I still [always] wobble when starting and usually because of the 'torque steer' which is almost inevitable when pushing with an extended leg on a pedal on the end of a boom which is out in front of the front wheel. My current solution is to try turning my heel in towards the centreline, so I am almost trying to push 'out' rather than straight. This does seem to reduce the 'torque steer', so I will try to do this more often to see if it helps when starting from rest.

I'm still learning and, during my last ride, I found that I was really enjoying just being out for a ride.  Not specifically 'going somewhere'; not specifically 'training'; not doing anything other than having fun on my bike. 

Dave Gardiner at Laid Back Bikes is an ace bloke . If you do come up to Embra, he'll get you well sorted (= hooked ).

Let us know how you get on and how your thinking progresses.


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## Scoosh (3 Dec 2012)

dave249 said:


> Any recommendations for what bent I should be looking at? I know that this is a very personal thing and I need to try out first but as far as I can tell the nearest dealer is over 150 miles away so any suggestions to narrow down the choice would be appreciated. I am 47yrs, 5'9", 75kg and fairly inflexible in the hamstrings and quads. I'm looking for something suitable for commuting,long day rides and very light touring. I have been looking at the Raptobike Midracer and Challange Furai.


Dave McCraw does some tests and reviews for Dave Gardiner, which can be found here. Obviously, he is only testing the bikes sold at Laid Back but it's a good starting point.


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## byegad (4 Dec 2012)

Bents use different muscles from DFs so expect to spend 500-1000 miles gaining the fitness in those 'new' muscles. Starting and stopping on a two wheeler is a 'different' experience. After 2000 miles on my AZUB-4 I was reliably doing both, and then my Specialist told me to stop riding two wheels because I have an intermittent balance issue! If I could do it so could anyone else.

Expect to climb slower than a DF, if this is really important to you maybe a bent is not the answer for you. There are exceptions, I know two bent riders who climb alongside DFs (One is a trike rider!) and then toast them on the flat! Down hill, nothing except a Velomobile, will keep up unless it has a motor!

Bents seem to encourage a different kind of riding style. I can set out in the morning and pootle along all day, and be perfectly happy to have averaged 9mph on a hilly run. In fact two of my trikes have no computer attached and the one that has a computer will not have one when the present one dies of old age.


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## BlackPanther (4 Dec 2012)

I've had a couple of 2 wheeler 'bents, a Bacchetta Strada, and an Optima Baron. The Strada (a high racer) was much easier to ride, and I claimed quite a few uphill scalps of roadbikers. The Baron (a low racer) was a heck of a lot harder when setting off, and not as good going uphill.

I then bought an Ice Trice, (sold the Strada) and then a Catrike 700 (sold the Baron.) The Catrike is almost as quick as the very fast Strada, but has the advantage that it can climb any hill I'm ever likely to come across. You can ride up a very steep hill at 1 or 2 mph on it, whereas on a 2 wheeler, if you drop below 5 or 6 mph you're verging on having to put a foot down. I could crawl on the flat on the high racer at walking speed, but not on the lowracer which was a lot more twitchy.

Having sampled 2 and 3 wheelers, I would recommend considering the trike route. They're more fun, almost as fast, are a lot more fun to ride, and almost uncrashable. Plus you'd keep up with df bikes on the flat, and completely destroy them on the downhills!

Finally, if you buy from a dealer (especially new) then recumbents are ridiculously expensive. All 4 of my 'bents were 2nd hand, and if you buy this way, you won't lose much money (if any) when you come to sell (to buy your 2nd bent.) This forum/CTC Forum/BritishHumanPower Forum/Ebay have a few 'bents for sale. I bought the Strada for £1,000, sold for £980 4 months/2,000 miles later. Not bad.

Most 'bents riders (if not all of us ) are a pleasant bunch, and I'm happy for any one interested in getting into 'bents having a look/go on my machine.



dave249 said:


> bygad said
> a trike is too far from what I'm used to and also I would be nervous being so low I was below the window line if I'm sat next to a car at the lights.
> arallsop said:


 
This issue has been raised many times. Trikes (and lowracers) look low down, so people assume they aren't seen . Nothing could be further form the truth though (after all drivers see road markings). I get far more room from passing motorists than I ever did on a df bike as it's so unusual. I went from 3 or 4 dangerous passes every week, to one every couple of months. You really need to try and blag a go on one.

If you watch my commute vid from around 2m30s you'll see just how much room I'm given on the Trice.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOSvAV1hy9c

Same respect given on the Strada.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNwF23kusg




Carl.


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## Night Train (5 Dec 2012)

I can't comment on 'bent bikes as I can't ride them. I literally can't move off without falling over, even downhill.

However, on a trike I can climb 5" kerbs from a standing start and spin up hill down to a couple of MPH. The limiting factor is rear wheel traction when gears can go really low without the risk of falling off.

The speed of climbing depends on fitness and the trike. A good trike will climb hills easily, a bad trike will be a pain in the arse knees.

I've not done many trike miles so I haven't got the proper legs for it yet but equally I don't like spinning much either and prefer, on my bike, to sprint a hill and then rest at the top.


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## starhawk (6 Dec 2012)

"Bents use different muscles from DFs"
This thing has been up before, many people argue that there is no obvious difference in the usage of muscles in a trike/bent to a DF, and I totally agree with them, I had no adaptation period at all when I changed from my mountain bike to the tadpole. The only difference is that the position of the rider is rotated aproximately 90 degrees around the lateral axis, how could that be so different?

Climbing a hill in a trike is a tedious but not as wearyingly experience as in a DF. You get up but it takes a little longer time, but you are not exhausted by the experience as you might be in a DF. Many finds it very tedious to go up, I did. So I got myself an e-bike kit and fitted it to my bike, so now I go up much faster then before.


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## riggsbie (6 Dec 2012)

I have a love/hate relationship with my 2 wheeled recumbent (Catbike Musashi) - I get really apprehensive riding it but once on it, I love it.....

And it's fast..... The cars in Oz do not give you much space, they treat you as a normal DF bike and leave you not much space......

The trikes are more fun for me, the Vortex is just brilliant..... And car drivers give you loads more space and respect, probably the WTF factor ??

I have a Mango velomobile as well, and I can climb faster than some unfit DFers......much to my surprise on a 250km Around the Bay ride - 200km into the ride......and if you like speed a Velo is the way to go......

You definitely develop Bent legs.....I was really sceptical about that but after 3 months my recumbent speed really improved a lot and now I am quite fast on my DF road bike too ;-)


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## Night Train (7 Dec 2012)

The thing I found with my legs was numbness in my feet, and possibly circulation. Also I found it 'unusual' supporting my weight against gravity that was now in a 'different' direction to what I was used to then pedaling.


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## starhawk (7 Dec 2012)

"You definitely develop Bent legs.....I was really sceptical about that but after 3 months my recumbent speed really improved a lot and now I am quite fast on my DF road bike too"
That proves the point, you are faster on your DF too! That wouldn't be the case if it was Bent legs. You are in better shape which affect both rides


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## Recycle (7 Dec 2012)

A recumbent has now been my primary mode of transport since August. Before that it was DF's but I switched because of neck pain. No regrets. I still have my DF's and I use then occasionally but the bent wins as the bike of choice. I could list many reasons but I think the main one is purely subjective. I think the correct term is fun factor.


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## Scoosh (7 Dec 2012)

I'm a recent owner of a recumbent and think I still have some way to convert the *'Hills' in to 'Slopes/ Inclines'* on the 'bent, so Bent legs have some development to do .... 

Winter + ice  does not make for relaxed riding - 'bent or DF ...  ... but it's less distance to fall on a 'bent ! 


**I use a grading system for upwardly-inclined pieces of tarmac:

incline
slope
hill
wall
My goal is to progress any bit of road from the bottom to the top of the table !


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## mrandmrspoves (7 Dec 2012)

Scoosh said:


> I'm a recent owner of a recumbent and think I still have some way to convert the *'Hills' in to 'Slopes/ Inclines'* on the 'bent, so Bent legs have some development to do ....
> 
> Winter + ice  does not make for relaxed riding - 'bent or DF ...  ... but it's less distance to fall on a 'bent !
> 
> ...


I use a similar grading system now I have gone bent...

Incline = Hill
Slope = Hill
Hill = how did I manage to cycle far enough from Norfolk to find a hill!


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## Recycle (8 Dec 2012)

Scoosh said:


> **I use a grading system for upwardly-inclined pieces of tarmac:
> 
> incline
> slope
> ...


I live in a valley in the North Downs so no matter what direction I choose I hit an incline of some sort. I'm equipped with middle aged legs so my grading is as follows:

upstream:

incline = hill (may still be able to take on a DF cyclist of my strength)
slope = hill (probably breakeven point with a DF in terms of effort)
hill = steep hill (DF makes me look foolish)
wall = push (I've managed Ditchling beacon without pushing but I don't rate it as the most fun thing I've done).
Downstream:

level = can beat by own speed on a DF in neutral conditions. With a headwind - no competition.
incline = fun
slope = more fun, especially when overtaking a DF's at speed.
hill =exhilarating, irritating when cars slow you down.
wall = Downright dangerous (47mph measured by GPS is so far my record on a slope about 1 mile from me. Limited in speed by bends, I'm sure I could get 60mph if it were straight & without a roundabout at the foot).


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## BenM (8 Dec 2012)

Upstream I find is a bit interesting - definitely feels slower than the DF but is it? I don't know. Perhaps I should get the Fairfax out of the cellar and try out the local upstream challenge 

>>47mph measured by GPS is so far my record on a slope about 1 mile from me

Yup - seriously fast down hill. I did wonder why cars weren't overtaking me going down the new road shortly after it opened (national speed limit applies...) Now I have another year or so into my legs I better have another go  My record is 47.8mph by gps... there was a spike just after of 51.2 but I don't believe it... I wonder if there is a strava section for that piece of road?


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## mrandmrspoves (9 Dec 2012)

Progress update: Four rides in now and today completed 42 miles to Hunstanton and back. Quite windy which I found disconcerting on the sea front. I am now confident about pulling away - but would avoid it on an uphill still, and when crossing traffic at junctions I wait until the road is clear into the distance. Yesterday I had cramp in the top of my thighs, which is something I have never experienced on a standard bike, so I moved my crank forward about 1cm and moved my cleats down about the same distance, and this seems to have helped. 
Average speed today was only 11mph - but against the wind on a fairly hilly (Norfolk hilly) route I was happy with this in my current state of unfitness.
Shoulders are still fine on the bent - they just hurt the rest of the time when I am not distracted!


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## Recycle (9 Dec 2012)

Your confidence will grow the more you use the bike. Uphill starts are more tricky and being in the wrong gear on a bent is more of a problem than on a DF but you will get used to it. I also found myself relaxing more as I got used to the bike. That makes a big difference.

I cramped easily when I started on the bent as well. Some of it is due to tension (it was with me anyway). I only cramp now from fatigue, which will happen on any bike.

I've never ridden a LWB. I bet that will tour well.


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## mrandmrspoves (9 Dec 2012)

Recycle said:


> I've never ridden a LWB. I bet that will tour well.


 
Yes definitely more relaxed today. Yesterday's cramp may have been fatigue - but I think position and cold as I have cycled much longer distances on a DF without ever getting cramp.

I do use the gears much more than I did on previous bikes and the full range from Granny to top. I have already got it into my head to put the bent into a low gear before I stop so I can pull away more easily. The main thing is that being supported in a big comfy seat you cannot counter balance using your body as you would on a DF - so it does feel a little vulnerable when you pull away unless you can get some velocity.

I think the Linear will tour well - but at about 15kg unladen (excluding racks and retro fittings) it is not a light tourer, I hope to get to a state of fitness where I can manage some light touring.....maybe coast to coast in a couple of years time. (but if my shoulder issues can be resolved - that may be on my Dalesman)


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## dave249 (11 Dec 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. There seams to be a lot of people recommending trikes. I'll have a think about that, although I'm not sure it will pass he 'wife acceptability test'!


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## Mr Fitz (8 Jan 2013)

Lots of good replies already, but here's my tuppenceworth.

I started building and riding bents about 2 years ago. Five home build projects later and one "real bent" (Metaphysic) I have now clocked up something like 6000+ km, of which a 1450km and 3400km touring trip with tent etc. My personal experience is that I can't climb as fast as on my DF road bike, but I'm not _that_ far off. But I _can_ climb even very steep hills (including the french Col du Tourmalet with luggage) as long as I don't mind spinning away at 7 or 8km/h. At these speeds it can get a bit wobbly to keep on line, so good concentration is required. I also find that the nature of the steering makes a big difference to handling at these low speeds. The "hamster" bars give a noticeable "tiller effect" which can make the bike twitchy, while the "open cockpit" bars allow the arms to be more or less straight and makes for less sensitive handling. The same bike with different handlebar configurations can feel completely different to ride.

On the road I often find myself with a huge grin and shouting to the wind "this is so f***ing good!!!" I have never done that on a DF bike, even when I'm really enjoying myself.

For me personally, I am never going to break any world records, so the main plusses of a bent are: 

1 - comfort over long distances; literally no aches and pains anywhere (aside from legs!) even after 7+ hours of riding

2 - brilliant all round vision; on an upright bike I find myself with my head lowered, looking at the road in front of my wheel. On my bents I can power away at full tilt and still have a perfect all round view of the countryside I'm riding through.

On the downside, I don't feel that my bents are "urban friendly", and I try to avoid built up areas and in-town traffic. For me, the problem is that it is often necessary to ride slowly between or around cars, with sudden stop/starts. I find such slow speed slaloming quite tricky, and if you stop in the wrong gear it's much more difficult - even impossible - to start off again because you can't get out of the saddle and heave on the pedals to get momentum as you can on an upright. 

In terms of choosing a bent bike for a newbie, I'd say that the lower the pedals are compared to the seat height the easier it is to control at low speeds and to start off. A low seat helps too because you can easily get a foot down when stopping. However, such low pedal, low seat designs are not the best for fast out-of-town riding. I'd suggest to a newbie to try to borrow or rent an "easy" bike for a few days to get the hang of riding a bent, and then choose a more "advanced" model for evolving from a beginner to an "intermediate" rider. There are so many different types of bent out there, the best is to try as many as possible (or, at least, as many different types - low racer, mid racer, hi racer, FWD, RWD, SWB, LWB...) before splashing out a lot of money.

I have no experience of trikes, but I would make the following observations: 1 - yes, you can ride very very slowly uphill, but what fun is that; 2 - they are generally very low, which means visibility to other traffic is more of an issue; 3 - going round bends very fast (e.g. the very fast descents on those steep hills that you climbed very slowly) can be tricky cos you can't lean like a bike; 4 - one or two models fold up, but try getting a non-folding trike on a car bike rack!

Whatever bent you get, enjoy it!!!


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## Recycle (8 Jan 2013)

Mr Fitz said:


> if you stop in the wrong gear it's much more difficult- even impossible - to start off again


This is a common problem with bents unless you have hub gears which are usually hellish expensive.

There is however a compromise. The off-the-peg gears offered with HP Velotechnik bents is the SRAM dual drive and I must say it's a superb option for a recumbent. If you aren't familiar with the system its a SRAM rear dérailleur combined with a 3 speed hub gear. The hub gear substitutes for a front dérailleur and its big advantage is that it makes it easy to recover from the "wrong gear" problem with a recumbent.


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## Mr Fitz (8 Jan 2013)

Thanks for your comment, Recycle. I have spent many nerdy hours doing gear ratio range, weight, efficiency, and cost analyses of various hub gear options. If you can stand the extra weight, I feel the Rohloff 14 gear hub is a clear winner. But I don't have that kind of cash, and I'm still rather a weight weenie. I agree the Sram dual drive option is a very good compromise, but it does add some efficiency loss in the gearbox, which causes anguish to geeky riders like me :-)

One reason why I favour FWD bents is that, when stopped at the traffic lights, you can (a) look down to see what gear you're in, and (b) stand up, lift the front wheel, change gear, and rotate the pedal by hand to slip into the new gear. You can't do this so easily with a RWD. Not as good a solution as your DD hub gear, but it is helpful.

Incidentally, (sorry, but I've gone into geeky mode now), another good reason for a hub gear for FWD bikes is that you don't get the chain angle deflection when on the extreme low or high gears. It also cleans up the front end, cos you don't have the cassette and derailleur sticking out into the airflow. However, to get the cleanest front end you need a Rohloff which avoids the need for a front derailleur and multiple chainrings too.

One day I shall no doubt try out a hub gear option, and I can well imagine that it will be the Sram DD unit because, as you say, it is a very good compromise.


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## Tigerbiten (8 Jan 2013)

Mr Fitz said:


> I have no experience of trikes, but I would make the following observations: 1 - yes, you can ride very very slowly uphill, but what fun is that; 2 - they are generally very low, which means visibility to other traffic is more of an issue; 3 - going round bends very fast (e.g. the very fast descents on those steep hills that you climbed very slowly) can be tricky cos you can't lean like a bike; 4 - one or two models fold up, but try getting a non-folding trike on a car bike rack!
> 
> Whatever bent you get, enjoy it!!!


1:- Depends how strong/fit you are.
One advantage of a trike is the fact you can gear it very low, so you can climb at a low speed with little effort.
Plus you have a different mindset on a trike, It's "You can go as slow as you like without falling off".

2:- Not an issue.
They are so different that drivers "see" you much better than an upwrong, hence more room.
A trike rides about two foot wider than a bike, so drivers have to pull out further. This makes overtaking safer as they are a lot less likely to try and squeeze through a gap.
Also being on three wheels means that your much more stable, so close passes are less of an issue. I don't like them but they don't bother me that much.

3:- You don't lean a trike, you just lean yourself.
If the road is nice and smooth then it's a bit 50-50 which is faster downhill.
Add a bit of gravel, potholes, ice, etc, etc and a trike wins hands down.
On a mixed run I have to be carefull on downhill corners that I don't run into the bike infront as I tend to need to brake less on corners.

4:- About the only real issue with trike. That and public transport.
But there are work around for them.

I run a Schlumpf HSD-Rohloff combo on my trike.
It's an expensive setup but I think the best for a touring trike.
My gear range is 10"-130" in 21 steps.


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## Mr Fitz (9 Jan 2013)

Thanks for your reply, Tigerbiten, and I stand corrected on my comments re trikes and cornering. I repeat that I have no experience of trikes, and I really don't want to be seen as "taking sides" for bikes over trikes. On the contrary, I am just as happy as the original thread poster to benefit from the experience of trike owners to learn more about their values.

I accept that flat out cornering can be faster on a well set up, very low CofG trike (where lifting of the inside wheel is rare), with an experienced rider who is used to significant body weight shifting. But remove any of these provisos and I wonder if it's still true? When it comes to potholes and bad road surfaces I've heard that some riders fall foul of avoiding the pothole by letting it pass between the front wheels (on a tadpole) only to be thrown off line when the rear wheel runs smack into it. This sounds nasty on flat out corner! Not that bike riders are immune to this, but it's perhaps easier to avoid such things with two in-line wheels?

However, I still feel that the inherent "lowness" of trikes is an issue when sharing the road with traffic. I too notice that, when overtaking, car drivers often give me more clearance for my recumbent than my DF bike, possibly because they are unsure of the stability of this rare and unknown vehicle. However, that presumes that they _can_ see me. On an open road, with no other cars, this is generally the case. But as soon as there is a line of cars - where the first car hides a low recumbent or trike from the cars behind - or when amongst traffic in an urban environment, there is no part of a low recumbent or trike that is visible to car drivers above the line of their bodywork. Pulling up next to a car stopped at a traffic light, it is very unlikely that the driver will notice you if your bike, body, or head does not stick up above his window line; and even then it's not guaranteed. I always ride with a rear flag on a rod for extra visibility, but I know that this has little value in a busy urban environment where car drivers' visual attention is already strained.

I would suggest that the vague trend towards 700C wheeled Hi Racer recumbents is largely due to a recognition that Low Racers are much less visible in real-world riding situations. (I qualify this by acknowledging that rolling resistance and shock absorption are equally valid, additional, reasons.)

I repeat that I don't want to start a slanging match (as I sadly often see on forums) over bikes versus trikes, but I hope the original poster will be better placed to choose his first bent by comments on the pros/cons of all his options. The difference between the range of various incarnations of bents and tikes is so much greater than for DF bikes, and this makes a newbie's choice all the more confusing. I also value comments from trike owners (both pros and cons) as maybe one day I will take the plunge and try one myself!


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## swscotland bentrider (9 Jan 2013)

_"However, I still feel that the inherent "lowness" of trikes is an issue when sharing the road with traffic. I too notice that, when overtaking, car drivers often give me more clearance for my recumbent than my DF bike, possibly because they are unsure of the stability of this rare and unknown vehicle. However, that presumes that they can see me. On an open road, with no other cars, this is generally the case. But as soon as there is a line of cars - where the first car hides a low recumbent or trike from the cars behind - or when amongst traffic in an urban environment, there is no part of a low recumbent or trike that is visible to car drivers above the line of their bodywork. Pulling up next to a car stopped at a traffic light, it is very unlikely that the driver will notice you if your bike, body, or head does not stick up above his window line; and even then it's not guaranteed. I always ride with a rear flag on a rod for extra visibility, but I know that this has little value in a busy urban environment where car drivers' visual attention is already strained."_

There are assumptions here that are simply not realised in practice. I rode my trike 1000 miles across France in 2010 with not a single incident - not even a close call. This included town work. It was rather the converse I got fed up being waved to, hooted at, 'thumbs up' gestures and as for photographs and video clips there must have been hundreds! I don't hear that drivers of Lotus Elise's and Caterham Seven's worry about visibility.

Yes sometimes drivers don't see you but these drivers are inattentive and wouldn't see anything! Evidence the number of drivers that hit parked cars, trees, emergency vehicles etc!

_"I would suggest that the vague trend towards 700C wheeled Hi Racer recumbents is largely due to a recognition that Low Racers are much less visible in real-world riding situations. (I qualify this by acknowledging that rolling resistance and shock absorption are equally valid, additional, reasons.)"_

I suspect the reason for the switch to high racers is the availability of lightweight wheels and parts.


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## Tigerbiten (9 Jan 2013)

I always say the most dangerous place I ride my trike is the local supermarket carpark ............ 

My trike is only around 8" wider then a bike but on a road it rides around 2' wider.
So I tend to ride my trike slightly differently than bike.
Because of the extra width I'm always in primary so I tend to more in the center of the lane.
Even in a group ride I find my inside wheel is outside the line taken by most bikes.
It's mostly to stop cars trying to squeeze past, they have to pull out and overtake me properly.
This means that they are pulling out 4'-6' and not just 18" like a bike.
So cars behind see more movement and know in advance there's something there.

But the downside of the extra width also means that in stop-start traffic, I don't filter unless there is a proper bus lane.


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## arallsopp (15 Jan 2013)

Mr Fitz said:


> Lots of good replies already, but here's my tuppenceworth.
> if you stop in the wrong gear it's much more difficult - even impossible - to start off again because you can't get out of the saddle and heave on the pedals...get


 
If you get the hang of unclipping with your left foot, you'll find you can use your right heel to derail the chain from the big ring onto the middle ring by pedalling backwards and timing your kick. It works when stopped at lights, and takes about 2 secs to pull off neatly. Don't forget to shift down on the front just after you see the chain hop, so that it doesn't rub the cage and get hung up.

I do this less nowadays, as I'm getting better at anticipating things. I've tried filming it (as its hell to describe) but my cam doesn't go wide enough to show it clearly. Maybe a job for the wife 

Andy.


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## Bill Wickham (6 Feb 2013)

*I've just joined this forum & would like to pass on the experience gained in several years on a recumbent. I currently ride a Bacchetta Corsa, which provides for me a very comfortable neck position & the seat shape fits me well, giving good lumbar support. The Ventisit seat is a very good replacement for the standard-issue foam affair & I find that above seat steering gives me somewhere to stick computer & mirror (which I wouldn't get with u.s.s.). I agree that climbing hills is 'slow & steady' but have replaced middle & inner rings with Chris Bell's eggrings (now sadly no longer available) which can help when spinning slowly. I find Kevin Dunseath of D. Tek very helpful & has a range of about 250 'bents to 'try before you buy'. He's based in North of Cambridge. I know that it's generally held that motorists take more notice of you on a 'bent than on an upright - fine when they have time to see you & react; not so clever on sinuous country roads bounded by high hedges.*


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## Recycle (6 Feb 2013)

I have always wondered about the oval or egg-ring concept. The principal is that you adjust the diameter of the ring to optimise the power stroke of the leg. According to info on Rotor rings website they measure less lactic acid build up in cyclists using these rings (but then they would say that). Bradley Wiggins uses the O-symmetric rings which is a similar concept except his look like the circumference of the chainring has been drawn by a kindergarten child. 

The concept sounds rational but it's controversial. Some swear by it, others say the effect is purely placebo. From my own observation (not as a user) I suspect that whatever power or energy gains are made, some energy must be lost through chain cavitation. Anyone watching Wiggins race must surely wonder when his chain will fly off.

It is certainly logical that it will improve hill climbing because the concept is to optimise torque in the power stroke, and due to the lower cadence (with me anyway), chain cavitation is probably negligible in hill climbing.


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## Bill Wickham (6 Feb 2013)

I've had the eggrings fitted for about 2 years now; I took advice from Chris Bell & left the big ring as was as I'm unlikely to be spinning slowly there. Middle (44T) was replaced with one of 15% ovality & small (30T) with one of 30%. I'd sent Chris a photo (effectively a side elevation) of the bike so that he could correctly orientate the rings. Although I have no scientific way of analysing the effect, I'm sure that he got it right as I find I can now 'spin' my way to the top of a steep hill where I may have been walking before. Like you I don't think I spin fast enough to cause the chain to cavitate! I do find that when I get back onto round rings they feel very 'dead', however - though this may only have any effect on comfort rather than performance.


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## Recycle (6 Feb 2013)

I have always wanted to try out egg rings - the engineering concept is sound - but they are quite pricey and I think you need expert assistance (as you had) to get them correctly set up.


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