# Close passes - advice and a rant!



## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

Posting this here as not sure where else to put it, so I'm sorry if this kind of thing isn't meant for this section of the forum. I'm terrified enough as it is on the roads but try to put it out of mind as I tend to have a good time when I'm out and credit where it's due, a lot of people are courteous. However, I was out yesterday morning just for a trip into town to pick something up - largely uneventful apart from my trip back right near home. On my way back there's a downhill under a rail bridge so the road is pretty narrow (and visibility is pretty poor for overtaking drivers) , followed by a short uphill with a couple of islands for ped crossings as you go over the motorway and then a longish drag before I turn off. I'm well away from this bit by the time something happened - the road was empty apart from me and a guy in a black BMW comes up from behind, slows and then passes so close I could have probably touched the car. It absolutely felt deliberate given there was ample space for him to cross to the opposite lane. Anyway it's shoot me up a bit and once again I'm terrified of putting my life in my hands just to go out for what should be an enjoyable cycle. I now can't stop thinking about this incident and keep thinking 'what if he'd hit me?'. 

I really didn't want to have to get a camera because why should I? Its one more thing to have to carry plus its unlikely to stop people endangering me. Plus, it's sort of luck of the draw as to whether the police will even do anything with the footage (the area is covered by GMP). 

Sorry for the rant. I guess I'm asking if we think me getting a camera will help me feel better about almost being run off the roads by self-gratification artists. I haven't been cycling all that long and I really don't want this kind of thing to make me stop doing it.


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## ianrauk (23 Aug 2021)

Rant away. It helps to get it out of your system.
We have all been there in your situation wether on a commute, a club ride or just a simple pootle. It's not very nice in any circumstances. A lot of car drivers do think they're entitled and cyclists shouldn't be on the road. There are also those who just don't realise that passing close to a cyclist at any speed can be quite frightening. Whatever the situation it's not very nice for us cyclists. We shouldn't have to put up with it, but unfortunately until something is done, we do.
Will a camera help? Who knows? Probably just as good sticking a PassPixi sign to your clothing or bike pannier (if you have one).
If you feel a camera will give you better peice of mind when cycling, then yes get one.
But, try not to dwell on it the bad, try and let it go.
If you can, try and get back out there, do your thing and enjoy your cycling.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Rant away. It helps to get it out of your system.
> We have all been there in your situation wether on a commute, a club ride or just a simple pootle. It's not very nice in any circumstances. A lot of car drivers do think they're entitled and cyclists shouldn't be on the road. There are also those who just don't realise that passing close to a cyclist at any speed can be quite frightening. Whatever the situation it's not very nice for us cyclists. We shouldn't have to put up with it, but unfortunately until something is done, we do.
> Will a camera help? Who knows? Probably just as good sticking a PassPixi sign to your clothing or bike pannier (if you have one).
> If you feel a camera will give you better peice of mind when cycling, then yes get one.
> ...


Thanks  it's still scary when in a group but at least everyone sees it - the road in question is a nightmare. It's a 30 but people drive much faster because there's not many houses. I did think about the pass pixi but I feel like a fraud with no camera! Though would someone coming up at speed really notice the camera? Probably not. Think I'll get one anyway as you can't really go wrong for a tenner can you. 

The last time this happened it was next to a shared use path and that felt a bit deliberate as well and it stopped me going out on my own for a bit. I guess I'll just have to think about the positives I get from cycling and try to ignore the negatives!


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## ebikeerwidnes (23 Aug 2021)

Sorry that happened to you 
I agree that the sort of person who does this will not see a camera
but if the Police did do something it might just stop them doing it again.

ANyway - you are right to focus on the positives - hope you can carry on!


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## ianrauk (23 Aug 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> I did think about the pass pixi but I feel like a fraud with no camera


If it makes at least one driver think twice about a bad/close overtake/pass then feel like a fraud away 



Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> I guess I'll just have to think about the positives I get from cycling and try to ignore the negatives!


This in spades.


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## Oldhippy (23 Aug 2021)

With experience whilst these shouldn't be done, they happen. In many cases all the high viz and lights you can carry you will still see it happen. I myself (mainly because I'm bloody minded) have never done the shiny clothing and loads of lights thing and will just maintain my rightful place on the road and mot be bullied. In over 30 plus years I have never been killed or run over and have and do ride on everything except motorways. Some are not as pleasant and they could be however and prefer the country roads where possible.


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## Sterlo (23 Aug 2021)

Don't let them put you off, there are a few numpties about but generally they're okay. I'm hoping to back on the bike soon after my accident, it hasn't dented my confidence, don't let one idiot dent yours.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

Thanks all 😊 I know I shouldn't let one person ruin it for me. Its just scary particularly when you hear about people getting killed. I cycled 13km into town and then back again yesterday and this one idiot was the only person who did this, so I suppose that means that 99% of people yesterday were courteous.


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## fossyant (23 Aug 2021)

GMP eh. First hand experience of them here, as have others. They don't give a hoot about cyclists. They just said to me, your insurance will sort it, when a guy badly broke my spine. No charges at all.

I've even had an argument with a cyclist that does work for GMP. I said I and other friends can back it up with evidence that they don't care.

Just rant away and release the stress.


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## postman (23 Aug 2021)

Rant away,one old tool clipped my bars with his wing mirror,the mark is still on to this day.My head came off and I followed him home,I went ballistic at him on his own driveway.I then calmed down,his garden was a mess,he was untidy,he stank stale,dogs inside the house were barking.I thought this bloke is ill.If he was he should not have been driving,I felt sorry for him and told him to be more aware of his surroundings I then left him to his sad life.Don't give up it may never happen again.


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## Arjimlad (23 Aug 2021)

Rant away ! 
It's a horrible experience. 

With a camera and living in Avon & Somerset I have some hope that such actions will have consequences for the drivers. An unsubmitted film of a close pass is a wasted opportunity to correct a bad driver. 

As Ian said above, a PassPixi does help reduce close passes, in my experience. To the extent, sometimes, that I feel the need to encourage drivers to pass me when it is safe because some people seem to be intimidated into hanging back needlessly ! 

Having the sign without a camera is, after all, no different to having a "Baby on Board" sign in the back window of the car without the corresponding infant in its seat.


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## mjr (23 Aug 2021)

Arjimlad said:


> To the extent, sometimes, that I feel the need to encourage drivers to pass me when it is safe because some people seem to be intimidated into hanging back needlessly !


Be very cautious about doing that and definitely make sure you have third-party insurance. The "overtake me" hand signal was removed from the highway code in the 1950s or 60s.

Other than that:
1. Ride central in narrow lanes,
2. Maybe a level 3 Bikeability training would help spot these nobbers earlier,
3. Some drivers are just awful and will not be dissuaded whatever you do,
4. Try not to worry about it and it's rare anything bad happens.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

fossyant said:


> GMP eh. First hand experience of them here, as have others. They don't give a hoot about cyclists. They just said to me, your insurance will sort it, when a guy badly broke my spine. No charges at all.
> 
> I've even had an argument with a cyclist that does work for GMP. I said I and other friends can back it up with evidence that they don't care.
> 
> Just rant away and release the stress.


From threads we've both commented on, I believe you probably know the road in question - it's windmill lane coming out of dane bank. I've had whoppers there try to squeeze me on the ped crossing islands so now I ride centrally there but didn't expect anything to happen where it did - just after the turn off for Oldham Street to go to Sainsbury's. Bloody awful road it is!


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

mjr said:


> Be very cautious about doing that and definitely make sure you have third-party insurance. The "overtake me" hand signal was removed from the highway code in the 1950s or 60s.
> 
> Other than that:
> 1. Ride central in narrow lanes,
> ...


Thanks. I did have some cycle training which was helpful and I do ride centrally on narrow lanes or where there's pinch points and more generally I stay out of the gutter. Moron just seemed to take exception to me (see point 3 ). Will try and do more of point 4!


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## roubaixtuesday (23 Aug 2021)

A couple of reflections.

Firstly, from a purely rational perspective the benefit of you cycling from your overall health and wellbeing far outweighs any physical risk from close passes.

Secondly, from an emotional perspective it is very upsetting and stressful to suffer these. Perception of risk is what puts us off cycling, rather than the actual risk, which is low.

What has helped me is to "let go" of the bullying or idiotic behaviour that drivers take part in. I can't on my own change them, and chasing them down, arguing with them, banging on the roofs of their cars etc invariably has a negative impact on my own wellbeing - I often work over such incidents in my mind for hours or even days afterwards. It also actually increases my physical risk as they're surrounded by 2 tonnes of high powered vehicle and also, if they're behaving like a psychotic idiot, they may well actually be a psychotic idiot. 

So I try to slow down, do some deep breathing exercises (if I'm not climbing a hill!) and make a conscious decision that their idiocy is not my direct concern. Merely being on the road is the best thing I can do as the more normalised cycling becomes, the less cyclists suffer this.

This is *NOT* advice - what helps me may not help you. My only advice is: don't let the bastards grind you down.


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## a.twiddler (23 Aug 2021)

Rant away! Sometimes it just helps to let off steam. Some cyclists make a career of filming and reporting other road users' transgressions and if you are that way disposed, perhaps that is the way to go. If you have an incident, if you were to believe some cycling forums, the immediate thing to do is to rush out and get yourself a camera. For me, such incidents happen so rarely that it would sour the whole cycling experience if I went out in that combative frame of mind. 

As others have already suggested, cultivating road awareness and using road positioning can help. A good mirror, being assertive, but also being prepared to get out of the way if the situation demands it are all useful. As a motorcyclist of many years I well remember being told as a new rider to always keep a lookout for an escape route if the worst were to happen, and this holds true for cycling. This isn't to say that you should ride around in a permanent state of impending doom, but just to consider what if..? 

The vast majority of other road users are decent enough but even they can be careless, thoughtless and unobservant. Then there is the tiny minority who must have their own way at all costs and the the effect of them on such as cyclists is well documented here. The thing is to ride in such a way that if something unexpected happened, it wouldn't be so unexpected, and your stress levels would be correspondingly less because of your anticipation and ability to avoid most incidents. I hope I'm putting it in such a way that it makes sense.


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## Arjimlad (23 Aug 2021)

mjr said:


> Be very cautious about doing that and definitely make sure you have third-party insurance. The "overtake me" hand signal was removed from the highway code in the 1950s or 60s.
> 
> Other than that:
> 1. Ride central in narrow lanes,
> ...


Thanks - I usually get in secondary, slow down, indicate left & will pull in/stop if a queue has built up.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

a.twiddler said:


> Rant away! Sometimes it just helps to let off steam. Some cyclists make a career of filming and reporting other road users' transgressions and if you are that way disposed, perhaps that is the way to go. If you have an incident, if you were to believe some cycling forums, the immediate thing to do is to rush out and get yourself a camera. For me, such incidents happen so rarely that it would sour the whole cycling experience if I went out in that combative frame of mind.
> 
> As others have already suggested, cultivating road awareness and using road positioning can help. A good mirror, being assertive, but also being prepared to get out of the way if the situation demands it are all useful. As a motorcyclist of many years I well remember being told as a new rider to always keep a lookout for an escape route if the worst were to happen, and this holds true for cycling. This isn't to say that you should ride around in a permanent state of impending doom, but just to consider what if..?
> 
> The vast majority of other road users are decent enough but even they can be careless, thoughtless and unobservant. Then there is the tiny minority who must have their own way at all costs and the the effect of them on such as cyclists is well documented here. The thing is to ride in such a way that if something unexpected happened, it wouldn't be so unexpected, and your stress levels would be correspondingly less because of your anticipation and ability to avoid most incidents. I hope I'm putting it in such a way that it makes sense.


It does make sense yes. I get what you mean about the camera thing - cyclist twitter can be a bit like that. There's genuine close passes that are terrifying but there's some that seem to deliberately antagonise for clicks 🤷‍♂️ not saying that these drivers are right, I'm just saying I think there's a better way to go about things rather than cyclist shouting 'you're going on youtube' 🙄

As for state of impending doom, I work myself up so much sometimes that I just don't go out unless it's 7am on a Saturday or with the club on a Sunday. This obviously isn't sustainable so I'm going to have to work on that!

Edited to also say - I think the idea of having to take out a camera with me on a pootle and have to trawl thru footage after if something happened might just make me feel even less inclined to get out. I'll think about the cam, but in the meantime I've ordered a passpixi so will take that out with me 😊


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## KnittyNorah (23 Aug 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> I did think about the pass pixi but I feel like a fraud with no camera!



Who cares? The more that careless or malicious drivers *think* they might come to the attention of the cops, the less-badly they're likely to treat you. Look at the sales of dummy household security cameras, recordings of dogs barking, things to plug in at home to switch the lights, radio and TV on and off ... they're all 'frauds', if you like.

I imagine that many people who do have cameras will have a passpixi sticker or something similar - and many won't; it doesn't matter. I don't have a camera (yet) and I hardly ever ride on roads (yet) but I bought two stickers (well, actually, non-stickers as I can cable-tie them to my front or rear basket). Even just riding along the Guild Wheel to Lidl, a couple of passing cyclists noticed and admired them and asked me where I got them from. One of them told me he always uses a camera on his commute to work. 

If they cause even one careless or malicious driver to give a wearer/user a safe overtake when they wouldn't otherwise have done so, they are well worth their very modest cost IMO.


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## Arjimlad (23 Aug 2021)

I only check the footage if something happened - and with my camera set to "dashcam" mode it records in 2-minute chunks, so I can easily locate and process the relevant bit of my ride. 

Last week, I rode 7 times & reported one incident of a driver jumping a red light which took me less than 5 minutes filling out the webpages and then having a cuppa whilst the video uploaded. 

If bad driving is affecting your confidence as you say, it may be that having the means to address it will help you enjoy your riding again. 

I certainly still enjoy my rides and love grabbing images of those "wow" moments from the camera too. 

If it's been memorably beautiful I sometimes create a video memory of it for myself - my sister rides an exercise bike watching them too, and my niece who has a learning disability likes watching the videos as well. It's not all bad !


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## steveindenmark (23 Aug 2021)

You get crap drivers and crap cyclists. Its what it is. 🙂


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## HobbesOnTour (23 Aug 2021)

If you haven't already, consider a mirror.
It won't stop people passing close but it may give you extra warning to be able to slow down/stop/avoid. At least it puts a bit of control back in your hands and can remove the "shock" effect.

You could also investigate alternative routes, if possible.

There is/was a product "distanciador" that was adjustable and extended perpendicular from the bike to discourage close passes. A light piece of foam may do similar. 

@roubaixtuesday advice is excellent - even if not advice. 😊

Keep focusing on the positives!

Good luck


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## ebikeerwidnes (23 Aug 2021)

Based on our last trip to see the grandkids - only a 30 min trip - these morons are out there on all roads and at all times
and a 'seeing the grandkids' trip is in the car on a motorway
we had several 'not signalling because I'm in a $enternameofgermancarhere - a couple of passes in the left lane etc

The problem is that if I have a small coming togther in a car I get damage to sheet metal - on a bike the damage is a bit more personal!!

but they are driving with a bad attitude and poor skills and observation - sometimes it feels personal but often I feel it is just attitude to any other road user that they see as inferior (i.e. anyone) and poor skills
neither of which they would admit

but maybe if more people had dashcams and cycle cams so that the Cops could at least 'offer words of advise' then the tide will maybe start to turn


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## roubaixtuesday (23 Aug 2021)

ebikeerwidnes said:


> we had several 'not signalling because I'm in a $enternameofgermancarhere


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## Ming the Merciless (23 Aug 2021)

My advice would be to try and ride with a sense of Zen. Try not to get angry or shout or swear. A few drivers who close pass look in mirrors for a reaction. Bit like the bully they are. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Don’t let bad drivers affect the pleasure of your ride.

Hold your line, control the lane at pinch points, junctions, traffic lights etc. Learn about primary and secondary riding if you don’t know these terms already. Don’t rise to bait.

I don’t know whether a camera will help you or not. But primarily consider your mental health. I don’t have a camera but I can imagine going down a rabbit hole with that. The passpixi looks like a good compromise to see if that helps.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (23 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My advice would be to try and ride with a sense of Zen. Try not to get angry or shout or swear. A few drivers who close pass look in mirrors for a reaction. Bit like the bully they are. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Don’t let bad drivers affect the pleasure of your ride.
> 
> Hold your line, control the lane at pinch points, junctions, traffic lights etc. Learn about primary and secondary riding if you don’t know these terms already. Don’t rise to bait.
> 
> I don’t know whether a camera will help you or not. But primarily consider your mental health. I don’t have a camera but I can imagine going down a rabbit hole with that. The passpixi looks like a good compromise to see if that helps.


Absolutely. There's a guy I see on twitter (I need to get off cyclist twitter tbh) and he's primarily a utility cyclist - records his ride every single day and gets angry that people are idiots. If I have to watch back footage of someone passing way too close I feel I'd just be more aware of it and be too frightened to ride. Will see how the passpixi goes anyway. Will also try to aim for a state of zen 🙃


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## a.twiddler (25 Aug 2021)

There's no point being angry that people are idiots. People will be idiots whether you are so laid back that you float about on a cloud or so wound up that your head explodes every time you see one. How you view them doesn't influence who they are.

Mostly, they just don't care because they are so oblivious to everything anyway. Apart from those mentioned up thread who might like to watch the results of their actions in their mirrors. Then, being angry is the result that they want. So, why give them the pleasure? it's just a matter of outlook. 

If I were to say that a miss is as good as a mile you might say that you've been bitten by a duck billed platitude but for most of us a near miss is just that, and gone before you realise it. Unless you're lucky enough to catch up with the perpetrator soon afterwards, letting it go is a lot less self destructive than pursuing it. 

If it's not a miss, that's a whole other world of pain, and a whole other course of action. Worrying about this rare occurrence, without taking all the reasonable precautions to avoid it, can spoil the enjoyment of all the occasions when it doesn't happen.


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## slowmotion (25 Aug 2021)

I'm sorry about your bad experience. I'm in London with lots of traffic and, by and large, drivers are pretty good. Every once in a blue moon I get a really bad adrenaline blast "Oh sh#t! I'm going to die" moment. The last two were from a Welsh coach and a concrete truck. You eventually get used to not dwelling on them, and try and work out how you might have ridden in a way that avoided the circumstances. The incidents might have been bad driving on their part but I'm mainly only interested in my survival. I really don't want to wear a camera. Putting one on at the start of a trip would only remind me of what might go wrong. That would spoil my enjoyment of riding a bike.


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## mjr (25 Aug 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> My advice would be to try and ride with a sense of Zen. Try not to get angry or shout or swear. A few drivers who close pass look in mirrors for a reaction. Bit like the bully they are. Don’t give them the satisfaction.


I have started blessing close-passers by waving a sign of a cross with my right hand. If the driver sees it in their mirror, I hope it puzzles them. If blessing them works, then good, because everyone is going to need divine protection if they keep driving that badly.

Also, it doesn't hurt if it looks like a "pass wider, dumbass" signal to drivers behind me. The next few overtakes tend to be better and wider but that may just be because idiots are not that common anyway.

I agree with some above that attaching/detaching cameras is a faff. I do it more to record interesting routes or get pics to report potholes and other shoot without having to stop so often. If I record a dangerous driver, I report them. I don't use the camera every ride or even primarily when I think I may encounter crap drivers.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (25 Aug 2021)

This thread has made me feel slightly better and the memory of tosspot BMW man is fading. My passpixi arrived today anyway so will pop that on for my next outing and hope it makes people think


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## Scotty55 (25 Aug 2021)

I had a close pass this evening. Unfortunately, the driver has a distinctive private reg. I know who to look for....


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## Pumpkin the robot (25 Aug 2021)

I had a pretty serious accident on my bicycle in 2014 caused by a driver pulling out in front of me, I had to have a year off work and still have to live with the long term consequences of it.
When I got back on my bike, I was angry at everyone if they passed close to me, jumped a red light, where speeding etc. It spoilt my enjoyment of cycling. My solicitor got in contact with the insurance company of the driver that caused the accident and sorted out a course of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy)
Talking through my negative thought processes with someone helped me a lot. It was ok to feel these thoughts, you are being put in a dangerous position, but I learnt to cope with the dangers and not get so angry about it. It was more that the actions of others was making me angry that I disliked, rather than the close passes, etc. 
As you have stated, 99% of drivers are fine. If you do everything in your power to ride safely, do not let the very small minority put you off riding.
I used to use a camera and reported quite a few drivers and all but one were acted on in some way by the police. I hope that made them better drivers, or at least made them think about their actions. I no longer commute on my bicycle and do not use my camera on social rides, but it did give me comfort to know that if somone did do something silly, it was being recorded. If I only I had it fitted to my motorbike when a taxi driver jumped a red light and knocked me off earlier this year!


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (26 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> I had a pretty serious accident on my bicycle in 2014 caused by a driver pulling out in front of me, I had to have a year off work and still have to live with the long term consequences of it.
> When I got back on my bike, I was angry at everyone if they passed close to me, jumped a red light, where speeding etc. It spoilt my enjoyment of cycling. My solicitor got in contact with the insurance company of the driver that caused the accident and sorted out a course of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy)
> Talking through my negative thought processes with someone helped me a lot. It was ok to feel these thoughts, you are being put in a dangerous position, but I learnt to cope with the dangers and not get so angry about it. It was more that the actions of others was making me angry that I disliked, rather than the close passes, etc.
> As you have stated, 99% of drivers are fine. If you do everything in your power to ride safely, do not let the very small minority put you off riding.
> I used to use a camera and reported quite a few drivers and all but one were acted on in some way by the police. I hope that made them better drivers, or at least made them think about their actions. I no longer commute on my bicycle and do not use my camera on social rides, but it did give me comfort to know that if somone did do something silly, it was being recorded. If I only I had it fitted to my motorbike when a taxi driver jumped a red light and knocked me off earlier this year!


Yikes, I hope you are okay


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## oldwheels (29 Aug 2021)

Does not help in your case but some police are aware.
Just south of Inverness the other day a police cyclist was out and I think 15 drivers were stopped for doing close passes. None were reported for prosecution but they were given some advice and a considerable delay on their journey to make them more aware in future. I hope their details were kept in case they get caught a second time for more stringent action.


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## Pumpkin the robot (29 Aug 2021)

I believe that most people that drive too close, do not know they are doing it and would be horrified to know they are scaring people as they pass them.
Of course, there is a very, very small minority that are just a little challenged in the mental department and find it funny to do it. and these are the people that need education and/or points on their licence.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (29 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> I believe that most people that drive too close, do not know they are doing it and would be horrified to know they are scaring people as they pass them.
> Of course, there is a very, very small minority that are just a little challenged in the mental department and find it funny to do it. and these are the people that need education and/or points on their licence.


Definitely agree with you on this one! Out on a club run today tho and we were shouted at by a driving instructor on a lesson for riding two abreast on a wide road. What hope is there when even professionals can't get it right? One of the guys out is a driving instructor and was fuming 😬


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## oldwheels (31 Aug 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> I believe that most people that drive too close, do not know they are doing it and would be horrified to know they are scaring people as they pass them.
> Of course, there is a very, very small minority that are just a little challenged in the mental department and find it funny to do it. and these are the people that need education and/or points on their licence.


Just to add to my last post on this. Grampian police pulled over 20 drivers and some got fixed penalty fines and some will receive a court summons.


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## Milkfloat (31 Aug 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> Definitely agree with you on this one! Out on a club run today tho and we were shouted at by a driving instructor on a lesson for riding two abreast on a wide road. What hope is there when even professionals can't get it right? One of the guys out is a driving instructor and was fuming 😬


I had that once, I left a forthright and informative message on their Google reviews with links to the appropriate Highway Code sections.


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## mjr (31 Aug 2021)

Milkfloat said:


> I had that once, I left a forthright and informative message on their Google reviews with links to the appropriate Highway Code sections.


Reporting to the regulators and trade association is also good. I think that's DVSA and ADI, but it might not be. There are enough problems around driver education and assessment without having dangerously incompetent instructors working.


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## Drago (3 Sep 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> Definitely agree with you on this one! Out on a club run today tho and we were shouted at by a driving instructor on a lesson for riding two abreast on a wide road. What hope is there when even professionals can't get it right? One of the guys out is a driving instructor and was fuming 😬


Get all your mates to ring up and book lessons with him using fake names and addresses.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (4 Sep 2021)

OK, posting in here because I didn't really want to start a similar thread, but has anyone had any luck with reporting close passes without a camera? Some tool flew past me in a jag today (why they always jags/beemers?!) way too close and I was prepared to let it go, when I saw him pulled up at a shop a bit further down. Desperately wanted to go and have a chat but didn't want the aggro if it got heated so I took down the reg and stared at him for a bit. He didn't seem to notice me so I imagine he didn't even realise he'd close passed (that or he's just ignorant). Anyway, putting out a message to say if I report this, will the police need footage, or am I gonna have to let this slide? @Arjimlad tagging you because I know you're good with this kind of thing 😊


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## Pumpkin the robot (4 Sep 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> OK, posting in here because I didn't really want to start a similar thread, but has anyone had any luck with reporting close passes without a camera? Some tool flew past me in a jag today (why they always jags/beemers?!) way too close and I was prepared to let it go, when I saw him pulled up at a shop a bit further down. Desperately wanted to go and have a chat but didn't want the aggro if it got heated so I took down the reg and stared at him for a bit. He didn't seem to notice me so I imagine he didn't even realise he'd close passed (that or he's just ignorant). Anyway, putting out a message to say if I report this, will the police need footage, or am I gonna have to let this slide? @Arjimlad tagging you because I know you're good with this kind of thing 😊


It is very rare for them to act on anything without video evidence, but I have heard of them going and having a word in the drivers ear when more than one person in a group has reported someone.
I would report it, you only have a bit of time to lose and maybe they will just have a quiet word in his ear.


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## DaveReading (4 Sep 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> Desperately wanted to go and have a chat but didn't want the aggro if it got heated so I took down the reg and stared at him for a bit.



That's always down to personal choice. I'd have been tempted to point out, quietly and politely, that cyclists need to be left a bit more room. But I wasn't there, so I bow to your judgement at the time.


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Sep 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> I believe that most people that drive too close, do not know they are doing it



How do you come to the belief?


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (4 Sep 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> It is very rare for them to act on anything without video evidence, but I have heard of them going and having a word in the drivers ear when more than one person in a group has reported someone.
> I would report it, you only have a bit of time to lose and maybe they will just have a quiet word in his ear.


I guess at least if I log it there might be a chance of a letter of advice, or if he has form for doing this he might not be so lucky next time if the cyclist has a cam 🤷‍♂️ I just worry about being seen as wasting the time of the police but I imagine some people are prolific reporters and don't actually care about submitting loads.


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## Arjimlad (4 Sep 2021)

Avon and Somerset's reporting tool records a near miss if you don't have footage. Whether the driver faces any consequences I doubt.


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## Pumpkin the robot (4 Sep 2021)

Ming the Merciless said:


> How do you come to the belief?



Because if I believed everyone was out to get me, it would make a pretty depressing out look on life.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (4 Sep 2021)

Arjimlad said:


> Avon and Somerset's reporting tool records a near miss if you don't have footage. Whether the driver faces any consequences I doubt.


Meh, may as well report - nowt to lose other than a bit of my afternoon!


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## Ming the Merciless (4 Sep 2021)

Pumpkin the robot said:


> Because if I believed everyone was out to get me, it would make a pretty depressing out look on life.



They are not the two options though. It’s not a binary they don’t realise vs. Out to get you.


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## Drago (13 Sep 2021)

Arjimlad said:


> Avon and Somerset's reporting tool records a near miss if you don't have footage. Whether the driver faces any consequences I doubt.


It would be unlikely.

They won't give a finger wagging without evidence, as people tend to abuse it to score points off either other.

And one person's word against the word of another, with no supporting evidence, does not meet the threshold for a prosecution. 

Even if the suspect admits it there will be no prosecution without evidence. This prevents the risk of the suspect changing their mind and going not guilty once it gets to court, and prevents the from fitting people up by squeezing confessions from vulnerable folk who may not fully understand the consequences of their words.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (13 Sep 2021)

Drago said:


> It would be unlikely.
> 
> They won't give a finger wagging without evidence, as people tend to abuse it to score points off either other.
> 
> ...


I reported it and got a call off GMP a bit later on. They said they had logged it as an incident in the event the guy is involved in something similar and is able to provide evidence. Suppose I ought to be grateful someone even rang me back 🤷‍♂️


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## Drago (13 Sep 2021)

Theyre just placating you. Even if he does something really bad later that does not add any evidence to your incident, and that which you witnessed won't be evidentially useful to anything he does later. It'll get logged on the local system for 'intelligence' purposes, and that'll be it.


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## alex_cycles (19 Oct 2021)

ianrauk said:


> Probably just as good sticking a PassPixi sign to your clothing or bike pannier (if you have one).



Thanks ianrauk for mentioning PassPixi. Hadn't heard of them before. I've been riding with cameras front and back for a couple of years and often thought to myself "I bet if I made a jersey with a speed camera sign on the back it would let motorists know I have cameras and they'd be nicer".

Well now I can try it without much effort. I've now got one on the way. Thanks again.

To the OP. I often get VERY annoyed with close passes, but most of the time I really only bother looking at footage and reporting the really bad ones - particularly from professional drivers who should know better (e.g. lorries and buses - but don't blame ME for the shortage of HGV drivers ).
The vast majority, I find it better for my mental health to just "let it go" and try to forget about them and immerse myself in the ride.


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## KnittyNorah (19 Oct 2021)

I got a couple of PassPixi signs, although I do minimal cycling on 'trafficed' roads. However when I go to Lidl, I need to do about 500m on a busy road and there is one turn off (to an estate) which is immediately preceded by a pinch point on the form of a traffic island for pedestrians crossing. I always shrink into myself a little for those few yards as there will inevitably be someone trying to squeeze past where they very obviously shouldn't. And tbh they do usually give up and fall back again, haha. 

Since I've had the PassPixi on the back of my shopping carrier (which is cable-tied to my bike rack) there has been not ONE instance of me feeling the need to shrink into myself as the drivers simply don't bother trying until after the pinch point. I can only ascribe that to the presence of the PassPixi sign. And I do have a second rear light fastened to my carrier, too, which I've been told 'looks a bit like it might be a bullet camera'.

So that's a win/win!


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## Arjimlad (23 Oct 2021)

I understand that there have been various studies all proving that the main effective deterrent for bad drivers is the likelihood of being caught, and the Passpixi lobs that fairly clearly into the mix.

I've found it very effective.


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## Scaleyback (25 Oct 2021)

I'm 74 and ride 'the roads' 5 or 6 days a week (wind & weather permitting) 
Up here in Richmondshire, North Yorkshire we are 'blessed' with relatively light traffic and the vast majority of drivers are careful & considerate.
However, I have certainly become increasingly circumspect as I have got older and I now ride with front and rear cameras and I have a PassPixi.






Hidden cameras serve a purpose 'after the event' but imo drivers who know they are being filmed are far more likely to drive sensibly.
I have run this setup for approx two years now, I have reported a couple of drivers to North Yorkshire's Operation Spartan 'Shielding vulnerable drivers' and I know 1 driver was ordered to attend a driving course. I have also reported a couple of vehicles emblazoned with their company name direct to said company and both times received apologies and assurances that the drivers will be 'spoken to'
I read a few posts where members seem to believe it's best to 'learn from the experience' or move on and forget it etc well each to their own
but I think we all have a 'duty' to help keep "vulnerable users' safer in any small way that we can. I am cetainly not advocating riders make it their mission in life ! that could easily become counter productive.


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## Enlightenedwaistcoat (25 Oct 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> I'm 74 and ride 'the roads' 5 or 6 days a week (wind & weather permitting)
> Up here in Richmondshire, North Yorkshire we are 'blessed' with relatively light traffic and the vast majority of drivers are careful & considerate.
> However, I have certainly become increasingly circumspect as I have got older and I now ride with front and rear cameras and I have a PassPixi.
> View attachment 615146
> ...


I did the same with a liveried vehicle the other week - I was in my car and they were behaving like an idiot around both me and the guy on a bicycle in front, so I reported them to the business. Received assurances that they'd be spoken to.


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## alex_cycles (25 Oct 2021)

Scaleyback said:


> --- SNIP ---
> I have a PassPixi.
> 
> Hidden cameras serve a purpose 'after the event' but imo drivers who know they are being filmed are far more likely to drive sensibly.



I got my PassPixi on Friday (the Evo - which clips on a jersey pocket). I've been out with it three times so far and it does feel as if it "gives most drivers pause". By which I mean ordinary drivers are giving me more space on overtakes, being more cautious about when they overtake and some are even using their indicators. Of course there are still a few dickheads. I don't think you will ever change the behaviour of them.

At some point I'm going to film riding the same stretch of road on the same day with and without the PassPixi and see if there's a visible difference in the passing distance. It certainly FEELs as if I'm being given a lot more space than before.

It was interesting on Saturday's group ride that when I was on the back we generally got passed "very nicely" but not so much at other times.
Need to do something for drivers coming towards as well.


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## KnittyNorah (25 Oct 2021)

alex_cycles said:


> I got my PassPixi on Friday (the Evo - which clips on a jersey pocket). I've been out with it three times so far and it does feel as if it "gives most drivers pause". By which I mean ordinary drivers are giving me more space on overtakes, being more cautious about when they overtake and some are even using their indicators. Of course there are still a few dickheads. I don't think you will ever change the behaviour of them.
> 
> At some point I'm going to film riding the same stretch of road on the same day with and without the PassPixi and see if there's a visible difference in the passing distance. It certainly FEELs as if I'm being given a lot more space than before.
> 
> ...


I'd be very interested to hear your conclusions about passing with and without the passpixi when you have it recorded on video. I too _feel _that I am passed more safely - ie often not passed - on the short distance I ride on the busy road, but it is very hard to be objective about it over such a short distance.


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## Dale 1956 (29 Oct 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> Posting this here as not sure where else to put it, so I'm sorry if this kind of thing isn't meant for this section of the forum. I'm terrified enough as it is on the roads but try to put it out of mind as I tend to have a good time when I'm out and credit where it's due, a lot of people are courteous. However, I was out yesterday morning just for a trip into town to pick something up - largely uneventful apart from my trip back right near home. On my way back there's a downhill under a rail bridge so the road is pretty narrow (and visibility is pretty poor for overtaking drivers) , followed by a short uphill with a couple of islands for ped crossings as you go over the motorway and then a longish drag before I turn off. I'm well away from this bit by the time something happened - the road was empty apart from me and a guy in a black BMW comes up from behind, slows and then passes so close I could have probably touched the car. It absolutely felt deliberate given there was ample space for him to cross to the opposite lane. Anyway it's shoot me up a bit and once again I'm terrified of putting my life in my hands just to go out for what should be an enjoyable cycle. I now can't stop thinking about this incident and keep thinking 'what if he'd hit me?'.
> 
> I really didn't want to have to get a camera because why should I? Its one more thing to have to carry plus its unlikely to stop people endangering me. Plus, it's sort of luck of the draw as to whether the police will even do anything with the footage (the area is covered by GMP).
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I guess I'm asking if we think me getting a camera will help me feel better about almost being run off the roads by self-gratification artists. I haven't been cycling all that long and I really don't want this kind of thing to make me stop doing it.


I know you feel I was hit by a woman that was 71 and texing back in 2015 I'm lucky to be here today ... If you get a camera on your bicycle you will be to darn scared to ride once you watch a video you made your self.


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## alex_cycles (29 Oct 2021)

Dale 1956 said:


> If you get a camera on your bicycle you will be to darn scared to ride once you watch a video you made your self.



We're all different, but that didn't happen in my case. But I only look at footage I'm either going to publish because it's an interesting ride, or something I'm reporting to the Police. Everything else gets nuked. At about 12 Gigabytes an hour, there's not enough space to keep it and there'd never be time to go through it. (I ride about 50 hours a month at the moment).



KnittyNorah said:


> I'd be very interested to hear your conclusions about passing with and without the passpixi when you have it recorded on video. I too _feel _that I am passed more safely - ie often not passed - on the short distance I ride on the busy road, but it is very hard to be objective about it over such a short distance.



Not done it yet, but will post back here when I do.  One week in, I still think it makes a difference, but would/will be nice to have some scientific evidence to back that up.


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## a.twiddler (29 Oct 2021)

I'm less surprised about you being hit by a 71 year old than the fact that she was texting. It's not something you naturally associate with older people. I'm not 71 (yet) but it takes me all my concentration just to text let alone do anything else as well!


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## lazybloke (14 Nov 2021)

Enlightenedwaistcoat said:


> Posting this here as not sure where else to put it, so I'm sorry if this kind of thing isn't meant for this section of the forum. I'm terrified enough as it is on the roads but try to put it out of mind as I tend to have a good time when I'm out and credit where it's due, a lot of people are courteous. <SNIP>


Had to know whether this was lack of observation, deliberate act, or something else.
Did you have any perception of 'eye contact' with the driver before they pulled out? 'Cause it seems like the A-pillar & mirror might have obscured the driver's view. Am not making excuses for the driver, quite the reverse - they've neglected their responsibilities as a driver and I know from experience how frightening & painful this can be be - but if this was not an intentional act then it helps to understand the circumstances/causes so that there's a chance of avoiding it in future.


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## KnittyNorah (6 Jan 2022)

Just updating this. 
Yesterday in the lovely (but cold!) sun, I went out sans Passpixi as I'd washed the bike and taken the rear carrier off to let it dry thoroughly. At the 'pinch point' of the central pedestrian island, THREE cars passed me in 'close' succession, the last one _much_ too close for comfort and quite frankly unnerving. I'm as sure as I can be that had my carrier with Passpixi been in place, the initial pass would not have occurred - and neither would the following two. 
Immediately after the island and the junction, a fourth car passed me - a learner driver - whose instructor had obviously given the correct instructions to the learner about not simple following the idiot in front ... they passed comfortably wide.

Reminder to self - if no Passpixi, ride on the pavement for 50 m ... it's wide and although not a shared one, I'm always considerate and simply get off and push if anyone else is using it.


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## Milkfloat (6 Jan 2022)

KnittyNorah said:


> Just updating this.
> Yesterday in the lovely (but cold!) sun, I went out sans Passpixi as I'd washed the bike and taken the rear carrier off to let it dry thoroughly. At the 'pinch point' of the central pedestrian island, THREE cars passed me in 'close' succession, the last one _much_ too close for comfort and quite frankly unnerving. I'm as sure as I can be that had my carrier with Passpixi been in place, the initial pass would not have occurred - and neither would the following two.
> Immediately after the island and the junction, a fourth car passed me - a learner driver - whose instructor had obviously given the correct instructions to the learner about not simple following the idiot in front ... they passed comfortably wide.
> 
> Reminder to self - if no Passpixi, ride on the pavement for 50 m ... it's wide and although not a shared one, I'm always considerate and simply get off and push if anyone else is using it.


Without teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you considered taking a primary position by taking the centre of the lane to stop the vehicles squeezing through?


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## figbat (6 Jan 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Without teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you considered taking a primary position by taking the centre of the lane to stop the vehicles squeezing through?


Good point - I now (and this is a fairly recent update to my riding behaviour) take a central position in the lane through narrowing and if a vehicle is coming the other way leaving not much room for a car to pass me. Of course the risk then is that a following driver gets irked at your preventing their overtake and doles out a punishment pass or worse, but so far I haven’t experienced this, just one aggressive engine revving and close follow.


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## KnittyNorah (6 Jan 2022)

Milkfloat said:


> Without teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, have you considered taking a primary position by taking the centre of the lane to stop the vehicles squeezing through?


I totally forgot I hadn't got my Passpixi on the bike and I'd left it too late after emerging from my cul-de-sac junction 50m before.

In any case it's a very oddly-designed stretch of road overall with deceptively wide bits interspersed with narrow winding bits. I normally take primary as or just before I pass through the pinch point. With the Passpixi in place, I've never felt the need to take it earlier as the traffic behind has actually waited for me to pass through it, drivers even smiling and politely indicating when I turn my head to check if it's safe to move out!


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## Solocle (6 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> Good point - I now (and this is a fairly recent update to my riding behaviour) take a central position in the lane through narrowing and if a vehicle is coming the other way leaving not much room for a car to pass me. Of course the risk then is that a following driver gets irked at your preventing their overtake and doles out a punishment pass or worse, but so far I haven’t experienced this, just one aggressive engine revving and close follow.


Doesn't always work.


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## figbat (6 Jan 2022)

Solocle said:


> Doesn't always work.



I assume that if there’s room to pass they’ll take it. I put myself in a place that leaves no room to pass, rather than just making it tighter. In the case of that video I consider the lane to include the hatched area, since it it there to be driven on. Or, if it is genuinely wide enough for me to be passed I’ll keep tight left and let them have at it.


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## Solocle (6 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> I assume that if there’s room to pass they’ll take it. I put myself in a place that leaves no room to pass, rather than just making it tighter. In the case of that video I consider the lane to include the hatched area, since it it there to be driven on. Or, if it is genuinely wide enough for me to be passed I’ll keep tight left and let them have at it.


You can't stop overtaking on the hatched area without letting them pass on your left. The problem is the transition from able to overtake on the hatched area to hitting the traffic island. There wasn't room to pass safely at the island, the overtake wasn't performed before the island, and I had to swerve left to avoid them, otherwise there would have been contact as they moved left to avoid the island.

There was nothing more to be done there, I left no room to pass, and they passed anyway.


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## mjr (6 Jan 2022)

figbat said:


> In the case of that video I consider the lane to include the hatched area, since it it there to be driven on.


I hate wide hatched areas. They exist mainly to give car-crazy councils a way to spend on paint and discourage cyclists, instead of doing the right thing and painting 2m wide cycle lanes.

(I think it's there officially because wide lanes would result in more speeding and Elfin Safety says that's wrong but completely ignores that hatching both puts cyclists in danger as shown and reduces the warning that the keep-left island would have had if the hatching only started shortly before it.)


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