# London Bridge



## mr_cellophane (18 Aug 2009)

Anyone know what was going on there this morning ?


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## CotterPin (18 Aug 2009)

Whatever it was it looks big. From my brief glance there were masses of emergency vehicles in attendance.


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## addictfreak (18 Aug 2009)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/roads/london_central_roads_feature.shtml

Not much on this link but its a bus, lorry, motorbike and cyclist involved.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

If you want to turn right on London Bridge southbound it's pretty dodgy, you have to take the right hand lane and hold position or cut across three lanes. Drivers in London see the horizon on the bridges and it means they put their foot down and drive at silly speeds before slamming the brakes on at the lights.

Hope everyone's ok.


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## Brains (18 Aug 2009)

10.30 Update

All 6 lanes closed in both directions

Busses have been put around the scene to block view

Police photographers in attendence

Accident seems to involve two double decker buses, one large yellow motorcycle which in in bits, and two cyclists.

One of the bikes looks OK, other bike has the front wheel destroyed. Looks like he hit/was hit by a very solid object.

The area is such a mess it's not possible to tell what direction those involved were travelling, but I would guess northbound


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## numbnuts (18 Aug 2009)

shoot that sounds bad


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## tdr1nka (18 Aug 2009)

I hate that bridge crossing and ironically I have to go that way today and was looking for alternatives as I'll have Miss T on the tandem. Might just be a bus, for us.

Sympathies to all involved.


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## ttcycle (18 Aug 2009)

Sounds major- London Bridge is my route home - looks like I may have to divert if it's not sorted. Hope all involved are ok.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

User3143 said:


> For the Police to close off the entire bridge means someone has died.




Not at all.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

The police routinely close roads after any serious, not necessarily fatal accident:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/hotw...close-road/article-999195-detail/article.html


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## CotterPin (18 Aug 2009)

Well, let's hope it is not fatal for any of the parties involved


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## Brains (18 Aug 2009)

11.00 - Bridge now open southbound only


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## thomas (18 Aug 2009)

User3143 said:


> For the Police to close off the entire bridge means someone has died.





stoptherock said:


> Not at all.





It definitely increases the likely hood. However, they would also close it if there were debris all over the road/leaked fuel/etc.

However, if they're trying to hide what it looks like it would suggest it was pretty horrific. Anyone got any news articles on it?


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## gabriel959 (18 Aug 2009)

Just read on bikeradar that the cyclist could be dead as he was covered.


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## thomas (18 Aug 2009)

gabriel959 said:


> Just read on bikeradar that the cyclist could be dead as he was covered.



got a link?


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## Brains (18 Aug 2009)

11.30 - Industrial cleaning team now on site


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## Jake (18 Aug 2009)

yikes, what time did this happen, any ideas?


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## Brains (18 Aug 2009)

Jake said:


> yikes, what time did this happen, any ideas?



Guess around 8-8.30


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## CotterPin (18 Aug 2009)

thomas said:


> got a link?



Here


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## Jake (18 Aug 2009)

ok, thanks, just going to check in with other half then


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## very-near (18 Aug 2009)

This story has appeared on a m/bike site I use



> When I walked into work this morning
> London Bridge had been shut off for road users.
> 
> Police, ambulance and fire engines there...
> ...


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## Origamist (18 Aug 2009)

User said:


> In London, it is extremely rare for the police to close a road except for a fatality. Wherever possible, congruent with safety requirements, roads remain open - even while the ambulance is loading the injured or dead.
> 
> After all, it is important not to inconvenience all those important motorists in their little tin boxes.
> 
> _This post may contain traces of sarcasm._



Roads will be often closed when there are difficulties extricating or dealing with injured parties at the scene. The recent Southwark Bridge HGV/Cyclist collision for example.


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## very-near (18 Aug 2009)

The story is on Bike Radar as well

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/view...start=20&sid=06946eaeb0834aea5c11c7f6c24f79ac


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## Brains (18 Aug 2009)

London Bridge now open in both directions


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## Origamist (18 Aug 2009)

User said:


> But as a total percentage of the accidents, those requiring road closure are very low. The police don't close roads unless it is absolutely necessary - because they then get loads of flak from the poor, inconvenienced motorists.



That is my understanding too, but it's not only fatalities that lead to road closures.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

I would suggest a motorcyclist who veers over three lanes and across a raised central reservation after a collision with a vehicle travelling in the same direction was going too fast.


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## benborp (18 Aug 2009)

That is impossible to know. I have seen motorcycles in low speed accidents travel a considerable distance from the impact. I've seen a riderless bike pick itself up and career down the road with a stuck throttle.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

For information only- a bus pulling away from a bus stop is doing less than 10 mph. The bus is on the nearside lane of three lanes, the central reservation is 8 feet wide and raised.

So the motorcyclist would have travelled for sixty feet after a minor collision, not possible unless travelling at speed.

A Ducati 748 can get to 60 in 3.1 seconds from rest. I've seen motorbikes do 60mph over these bridges. Reports say a cyclist was killed.
http://www.londonfgss.com/member1555.html


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

Following traffic is obliged by the Highway Code to give way to buses pulling away from a stop.

There's a photo of the scene in the London paper, the motorbike hit the cyclist and he died.


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## Theseus (18 Aug 2009)

STR, you do not know all the facts about this case. Please stop jumping to conclusions based on partial evidence.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)




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## JediGoat (18 Aug 2009)

stoptherock said:


> I would suggest a motorcyclist who veers over three lanes and across a raised central reservation after a collision with a vehicle travelling in the same direction was going too fast.



I would suggest trying to allocate blame when you have only a few bits of secondhand information is pointless.

You don't have to be travelling fast to hurled a long way down the road. A helpful motorist once shunted me (not my motorbike, which they kindly crushed under their car) easily 20 yards down the road (I slid past one double-decker bus in the process). My speed at the moment of impact? 0mph.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

Touche said:


> STR, you do not know all the facts about this case. Please stop jumping to conclusions based on partial evidence.



I haven't commented on culpability, speculated or drawn conclusions in this case, read what I've written.

London's bridges have an appalling safety record because after medaeval street layouts motorists can see the road ahead for longer than anywhere else and regularly flout speed limits.


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## Theseus (18 Aug 2009)

stoptherock said:


>



Probably the most intelligent thing you have said yet.


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## CotterPin (18 Aug 2009)

Here is the report from the Evening Standard. It does not mention any fatalities. 

I note that the item is linked to the issue of cyclists and lorries though can't quite see how that is relevant in this case.


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## very-near (18 Aug 2009)

stoptherock said:


>





If the bike struck the bus on the right, then it is unlikely from this pic that it has traveled more than 50ft


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

A man was killed in a hit and run on London Bridge northbound a couple of years ago- a moped rider later handed himself in to the police. The lanes can be tricky but from the scant details it appears the cyclist here did absolutely nothing wrong at all, no amount of life-savers, blind-spot checking or mirrors could have prevented this. Just awful.


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## Jake (18 Aug 2009)

good points:

The accident raises further concerns about the safety of cyclists on London roads. Lorry drivers were today being given free mirrors to help them see cyclists in their blindspots.

The cycling safety events, "Exchanging Places" at two police roadshows in central London, follow the deaths of seven cyclists after collisions with heavy goods vehicles in the capital this year. It is backed by the Standard's Safer Cycling Campaign.
Officers will stop lorry drivers in The Mall and Trafalgar Square to warn them of the dangers of cyclists riding up on the nearside. They are distributing free stick-on Fresnel mirrors to improve visibility. Cyclists also have the chance to climb into HGV cabs and see how hard it is to see bikes.

Inspector Graham Horwood said: "Although the number of people cycling in London has increased, collisions between cyclists and trucks remains a significant problem. 
"This is not just something that happens to other people - it could happen to you."

The Met has also produced a YouTube video on how to avoid collisions.


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## Jake (18 Aug 2009)

ps, think the ambulance cre/paranedics with their fast response cars and bikes do an amazing job. Always my first choice for charity.


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## Blackandblue (18 Aug 2009)

In the circumstances, it seems to have been pure (bad) luck that the cyclist was hit. It could so easily have been a car, van, lorry, motorcyclist or even a pedestrian. If a pedestrian would we have news reports claiming that the incident raises further concerns about the safety of walking the streets of London?

This accident raises general concerns about the safety of London's roads for all users. If there are any lessons to be learnt from this (and it is presumptious to do so with respect to this incident until more is known about the causes of the accident) it would be that measures need to be undertaken to make the roads safer for all users.

My thoughts are with those involved and particularly with the families of anyone who has died as a result of this accident.


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## Lizban (18 Aug 2009)

Very sad indeed, it all feels so much closer if it happens on a road that you use. Let's hope the reports of a death are wrong.


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## very-near (18 Aug 2009)

The bus drivers don't use their mirrors around here either when pulling out.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

Linking this accident to the dangers of lorries seems daft, and, if free mirrors are being handed out to lorry drivers, isn't that official recognition that the industry can't be trusted to carry out safe practice themselves?


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## gazzaputt (18 Aug 2009)

Standard reports:

Three people were taken to hospital today after a crash involving a bus, a motorbike and a bicycle which closed London Bridge.

Two people were said to have suffered "multiple injuries", one with cuts, grazes and neck pain, and the other has "minor injuries".

The accident happened at 8.20am in King William Street, near London Bridge. Northbound traffic was diverted after the crash, which also closed the southbound carriageway, police said.

Two of the injured were being treated at St Thomas' Hospital and a third wastaken to the Royal London in Whitechapel.

A City of London police spokesman said: "Three people have been injured and officers are investigating the scene. The bus driver is helping with enquiries. Roads also closed around the scene are Monument Street heading westbound towards London Bridge and Arthur Street heading eastbound towards London Bridge.


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## joolsybools (18 Aug 2009)

Sounds hopeful that no-one is in a critical state.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

Even if bus drivers aren't indicating I hang back, they have a habit of pulling out suddenly.


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## tordis (18 Aug 2009)

It hits you when something like that happens on a road you tend to use. Hope the people involved get well soon.


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## Origamist (18 Aug 2009)

stoptherock said:


> Linking this accident to the dangers of lorries seems daft, and, if free mirrors are being handed out to lorry drivers, isn't that official recognition that the industry can't be trusted to carry out safe practice themselves?



It's lazy/easy journalism - they just wanted a cycling "hook" to attach the HGV awareness story to.


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

I read that more than half the cycling/HGV fatalities in London involved the cyclist being hit from behind.

Mirrors would have made no difference in those cases.


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## Origamist (18 Aug 2009)

From Bikeradar: 
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644120&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60


Hi 

I'm the cyclist that the motorbike took out and I'm still alive!!! The biker however is hurt quite badly but he too is alive. 
It all happen so quickly, was merrily crossing LB and suddenly this big yellow motor bike comes flying across the central reservation. Tried to avoid it but that thing was huge! Slammed on the brakes, hit the bike and went flying. 
Went to St Thomas's, got thorough check up. Got stitches on my lips and bruises/cuts but was fit enough to be discharged. 
Glad to hear my R3 look ok, will see when I pick it up from the police., fingers crossed. 
Glad to come away ok could have been a lot worse, thoughts with the biker. 
Thanks to all the passers by especially Cluadia for stopping to help, the paramedics, police, doctors and nurses. 

And was on my way to a C & G cycle mechanics course! 



Keep riding....


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## stoptherock (18 Aug 2009)

Thank God for that.


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## Jake (18 Aug 2009)

nice looking bike the R3


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## CotterPin (18 Aug 2009)

stoptherock said:


> Thank God for that.




+1


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## ttcycle (18 Aug 2009)

Glad to hear no fatalities - beaut of a bike


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## gazzaputt (18 Aug 2009)

Jake said:


> nice looking bike the R3



Expensive bike that!


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## scouserinlondon (18 Aug 2009)

Good to hear the rider's okay. It seems to have been quite a summer for accidents.


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## jmaccyd (18 Aug 2009)

Nasty and glad you are OK, just got a Cervelo S1 on order after a little spill myself. London Bridge does provide some difficulties, lots of buses with multiple bus stops can lead to confusing 'issues'. Ironically did a RR this year where a motorcycle hit a car and went into the bunch, suprisingly just a few minor injuries.


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## hackbike 666 (18 Aug 2009)

Nice to hear cyclist is ok hope motorcyclist is ok as well.

I don't really like the London Brdge layout myself.


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## Twanger (18 Aug 2009)

Origamist said:


> From Bikeradar:
> http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644120&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
> 
> 
> ...




Very happy to hear it!!!!!


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