# Is the Coronacycling boom coming to an end?



## SkipdiverJohn (7 Sep 2020)

The last few times I've been out for leisure rides with a significant proportion of off-tarmac cycle paths and woods mileage on my route, I've been struck by how quiet it's become, compared with even a few weeks ago. My 2 hour ride yesterday was almost entirely deserted, and I just encountered a couple of kids in a park and a couple of locals riding near their house when I was almost back home. Cyclist numbers appear to be dramatically down, and so are recreational pedestrians, although not so much as cyclists.

Have I just witnessed a freak quiet day, or is this the end of the mini-boom and most of those riders have put their bikes away and reverted to their pre-Corona routines? I know some on here seemed to think the virus would result in a wholesale shift in mass transport away from motor vehicles, but I've always been sceptical of this theory and believed that for every 10 new Coronacyclists, 9 of them would not keep it up beyond the summer once things started to open up and the boredom was relieved by having more other activities available to do.
Am I being too pessimistic, or is it simply getting back to business as usual, with inactive lifestyles being the rule and the normal reluctance to travel even short distances under your own power?


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## Badger_Boom (7 Sep 2020)

It's started raining here in Yorkshire so I think that might have something to do with it too.


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## Alex H (7 Sep 2020)

It's also the end of summer


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## DCLane (7 Sep 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> It's started raining here in Yorkshire so I think that might have something to do with it too.



Rain? Yorkshire? Nah! 

There's been a shift in the weather, along with other things opening up.

Some will have stayed riding, and my club's seen an upturn in both enquiries and new members, but many will have stopped. Second-hand bike prices on eBay also seem lower, although parts prices are still high.


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## BoldonLad (7 Sep 2020)

We have noticed the same.

Think it is a combination of:

a) people returning to work, kids returning to school

b) weather is becoming colder/wetter/windier as Autumn approaches


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## screenman (7 Sep 2020)

The Sustrans route I was on yesterday was very busy.


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## SGG on a bike (7 Sep 2020)

I’m starting to notice and recognise regulars on our morning rides. We tend to do the same route earlyish to fit around work, so times etc are usually fairly consistent. Rode out to visit an LBS in a neighbouring village yesterday (they do really good Ice Cream) and there were plenty of cyclists about, but mainly small groups of road bike riders.


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## fossyant (7 Sep 2020)

It's generally quieter - even folk out for a walk. Weather changes, folk at work/school. Certainly a big change last week or so, as I usually go out for a ride in my lunch break as I'm WFH. Long may this continue into the winter - daylight riding.

Weekdays have seen the biggest change for me.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Sep 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> It's started raining here in Yorkshire so I think that might have something to do with it too.



All the days I've been out riding recently have been dry during the ride and not that windy. Yesterday's ride was in very pleasant cycling conditions, comfortably cool with just a gentle breeze. Nothing about the weather to put people off being outdoors.


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## screenman (7 Sep 2020)

Maybe all the miserable cyclists have turned them off.


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## CanucksTraveller (7 Sep 2020)

I agree that it's pretty dead out there, it has been for many weeks. There's a local circular bike / walking path near me which is quite a good yardstick. It was always pretty quiet before the 'rona, then during lockdown it was absolutely heaving with both walkers and cyclists, now it's very quiet again. Even Grafham Water was quiet on Saturday, despite the fact it was a nice day. The roads of course were busy.


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## Ming the Merciless (7 Sep 2020)

Yesterday I noticed an uptick in cyclists. Not quite early lockdown but plenty about. The parks however are now empty and cycling through them once more a pleasure.


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## Notafettler (7 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> for every 10 new Coronacyclists, 9 of them would not keep it up


9 would keep it up?....no chance. I would give it one in 20 max. You won't find out till next year as weather alone will reduce the numbers. 
Reference walkers the same or at least similar. The weather makes a difference again. Not seen one for a while and I have been mainly off road for a couple of weeks, although mainly trespassing.


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## Notafettler (7 Sep 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe all the miserable cyclists have turned them off.


Never been a shortage of them, let onto them and they ignore you. Also like to pass as close as possible. No doubt they expect cars to give them loads of room. Hypocrites.


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## Chris S (7 Sep 2020)

There a still lots of cyclists in Birmingham. They're usually dressed in ordinary clothes so they're probably using their bikes for everyday transport.


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## SkipdiverJohn (7 Sep 2020)

Chris S said:


> There a still lots of cyclists in Birmingham. They're usually dressed in ordinary clothes so they're probably using their bikes for everyday transport.



I'd agree utility cyclist numbers still seem slightly up on pre-virus, but the obvious recreationals, especially the weekend family groups, are way down on what they have been.
Pedestrian-wise, I'm seeing mostly the usual dog-walkers off tarmac and not a lot else.


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## Venod (7 Sep 2020)

I didn't go out yesterday but my lad did 31 mile, he had 56 flybys on Strava some of them seemed to be on a tour entitled Grounded, they rode from Carlton in North Yorkshire to Newton Kyme in Lincolnshire, there was ten of them at least, this was day 2 for them, day one was from Bedale North Yorkshire to Carlton North Yorkshire.


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## Slioch (7 Sep 2020)

Still loads of cyclists around my neck of North Yorkshire at the moment. No noticeable decline in numbers yet.
Even saw a couple of people of colour (are we still allowed to use that term?) in full lycra and on roadbikes, which normally is a total rarity around these parts.


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## screenman (7 Sep 2020)

Notafettler said:


> 9 would keep it up?....no chance. I would give it one in 20 max. You won't find out till next year as weather alone will reduce the numbers.
> Reference walkers the same or at least similar. The weather makes a difference again. Not seen one for a while and I have been mainly off road for a couple of weeks, although mainly trespassing.



Maybe not many of the new to hobbies people want to break laws.


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## screenman (7 Sep 2020)

Maybe a better topic is what have you done to encourage somebody to take up or stick to cycling.


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## Blue Hills (7 Sep 2020)

Badger_Boom said:


> It's started raining here in Yorkshire so I think that might have something to do with it too.


If that's anything like the bit of lancashire, right on the border with yorkshire, that I know well, that's hardly a rare event.


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## Pale Rider (7 Sep 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe a better topic is what have you done to encourage somebody to take up or stick to cycling.



It's a perfectly reasonable topic, and arguably more interesting than yet another "Which is the best dust cap?" thread.

If you'd rather talk about encouraging people to cycle, start a thread about it.


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## mjr (7 Sep 2020)

Not much sign of decline around West Norfolk yet. Sustrans Route 1 still pretty busy. Even the unsigned-but-maybe-intuitive fast route I took to Norwich last week had quite a few other cyclists on it. Numbers vary a bit with weather, which I think is people adjusting their journey times for the best of it rather than trying to do fixed 9-5 commutes.


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## fossyant (7 Sep 2020)

Slioch said:


> Even saw a couple of people of colour (are we still allowed to use that term?)



You are a few decades late !


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## oldworld (7 Sep 2020)

Hopefully some will have tried cycling and keep doing it. I think while the weather is OK less will stop but bring on the cold, wet, windy, dark days then they'll be stopping in large numbers.
I always encourage people to cycle telling them it's good for their health and they may shed a stone or two.


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## Chris S (7 Sep 2020)

Slioch said:


> Even saw a couple of people of colour (are we still allowed to use that term?) in full lycra and on roadbikes, which normally is a total rarity around these parts.


Most of the cyclists I see are from ethnic minorities, COVID has changed that. Before it most of my local cyclists _looked like _middle class lefties.


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## Jenkins (7 Sep 2020)

Children have started to go back to school. More people are returning to work. Shops have re-opened. People simply have less leisure time now to go out together.

Or they've all taken up paddle boarding & kyaking instead.


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## HMS_Dave (7 Sep 2020)

It is definitely quieter that i have noticed personally but then im not necessarily sure that is all down to Coronacycling boom ending. As has been said kids are back at school. More people back at work. The real test in when and if the bargains show up on the used market...


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## Bonefish Blues (7 Sep 2020)

Definitely - until a few weeks ago any BSO sold for a billionty-two pounds at least. I've had a couple of lovely bikes for sale for a couple of weeks and they've not sold yet


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## weareHKR (7 Sep 2020)

Chris S said:


> There a still lots of cyclists in Birmingham. They're usually dressed in ordinary clothes so they're probably using their bikes for everyday transport.
> [/QUOTE
> The missus & I had 5 days booked in Birmingham with an Airbnb in May, plan was to go out for the days to experience cycling the Canal routes, needles to say that didn't happen!


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## Reynard (7 Sep 2020)

My local recycling center is still asking about 20% more for bikes than they were pre-COVID, although if you know what to look for, you can still get a reasonably good buy for £50 or less. But you do have to be patient watch the website and reserve something as soon as it's listed; they don't have nearly as many bikes coming in, and the good ones are selling quickly. Most of what's been hanging around in the sales area are bikes for very small children and the usual BSO full-susser MTB.

They've currently got a decent-looking Trek hardtail in for £35 and a loop-framed Dutch bike for £55. Plus two junior / teen-sized BSO and five kiddies bikes.

As for cyclists, the early lockdown mayhem on normally empty roads has definitely subsided, but I am seeing far more utility cyclists pootling around town, mainly on brand harry spankers town bikes.


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## weareHKR (7 Sep 2020)

Not too bad in Hull for cyclists, although now the kids are back at school & lots of adults back to work its is quieter. 
Lots of kids here who cycle, it's like Carrera City at school time, majority ride most of the way on their back wheels, I never was particularly good at that.
Lots of families out last weekend, it's easy to cycle here because it's so flat, a speed hump is as strenuous as it gets!


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## SkipdiverJohn (8 Sep 2020)

HMS_Dave said:


> the real test in when and if the bargains show up on the used market...



I'm not really expecting much to happen in that respect until next year, apart from those who have bought new expensive bikes then lost their jobs soon after and need the cash. Most Coronacyclists bikes will need to be laid up over the winter before their owners accept the reality they aren't going to ride them any more. I can't see much nearly new stuff being sold at a large loss almost immediately. It would be less financially painful to do it a year down the road when the purchase is less fresh in the mind.


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## Pale Rider (8 Sep 2020)

weareHKR said:


> it's like Carrera City at school time,



Happily for Halfords, the kids like Carreras.

My local bike shop regularly gets inquiries from parents with a child in tow for 'a Carrera'.

They sometimes buy an equivalent GT, but usually wander off in the direction of Halfords.

I can't comment on the recent boom because I've not been out.

There was a small Brad Wiggins/Olympics boom in 2012 - the bike shop sold quite a few road bikes, which is not a big market for them.

That boom bust fairly quickly, and the bike shop never saw the majority of those customers again.

On a separate point, the shop manager told me the vast majority of all customers, while not exactly regulars, have some previous connection to the shop.

I fall into that category, having bought a handful of bikes and accessories there in about 30 years.

The shop sells a decent number of bikes, but it is rare to sell a bike to a completely new face who then becomes a full on regular.


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## Notafettler (8 Sep 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe not many of the new to hobbies people want to break laws.


Doesn't mean I wouldn't have spotted some on a bridle path, that I am on a lot of the time. I just happen to be "harvesting!" at the moment. Blackberrys, sloes AND at last some mushrooms. Some, not so giant puffballs. I haven't spotted any walkers on the bridle path whatsoever. Or any mountain bikers. The latter went from rare pre corvid to almost one a day to.....none for about 3 weeks. Weather is changing. More importantly where are the weekend warriors even they have disappeared off-road. 
I am not on the road that much so cannot be sure about that lot! But still none for 3 weeks or more


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## Notafettler (8 Sep 2020)

screenman said:


> Maybe a better topic is what have you done to encourage somebody to take up or stick to cycling.


Nothing, nor do I intend on knocking on neighbors doors and suggest they take up cycling. 
Which reminds me I have to pack a puncture repair kit as I have been offered a loan of a bike on my staycation in Herefordshire. By someone who bought it and rode it 2 or 3 times 4 years ago. 
The vast majority of new cyclist bought them to alleviate boredom, nothing more nothing less!I they never ever had any intentions whatsoever in taking up cycling as a alternative commuting vehicle or a hobby.


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## Notafettler (8 Sep 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I'm not really expecting much to happen in that respect until next year, apart from those who have bought new expensive bikes then lost their jobs soon after and need the cash. Most Coronacyclists bikes will need to be laid up over the winter before their owners accept the reality they aren't going to ride them any more. I can't see much nearly new stuff being sold at a large loss almost immediately. It would be less financially painful to do it a year down the road when the purchase is less fresh in the mind.


I expect they will start to come on the market more like 2 years plus. Specially the cheap ones. Nobody who bought a cheap bike will be bothered about leaving it in the garage for a few years as in "I will use it next summer!".


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## slowmotion (10 Sep 2020)

Quite a few people have taken up cycling because they don't want to use public transport to get to work during the Coronavirus pandemic. My daughter is one of them and cycles into the City from Brixton for the occasional day at the office while homeworking. Cycling's taken a bit of a grip and she's now trying to find her own bike rather than using Boris ones. I think quite a lot of other people will be doing the same.


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## mjr (6 Nov 2020)

It's a new lockdown but is anyone seeing a new coronacycling surge? Not noticeable here yet but tomorrow's weather forecast is mild for November so maybe that will tempt some. The roads are quieter but not like last time at peak, which I suspect is a mix of school run and more shops open for collection still wanting some workers in.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Nov 2020)

I've been off work most of this week, so I've been out for several rides to take advantage of the calm dry weather. Not that many other riders around, and most that were out were on hybrids or MTB's and not dressed in cycling gear. Far less roadies around than during the summer. When I was in the West End a few days ago it was really quiet, only half the number of people around you'd expect to see normally, and less riders than usual too.


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## Oldhippy (6 Nov 2020)

Hopefully I have inadvertently made people think about what can be done while using a cycle as daily transport. People have commented when I have had my trailer loaded with allotment goodies or shopping. They all thought it would really hard?


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## fossyant (6 Nov 2020)

There were quite a few older folk out around 2pm yesterday on bikes. 

I'm waiting for a really nice hardtail to come up for £200.  Ebay prices are still crazy.


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## SkipdiverJohn (6 Nov 2020)

Still a bit early in the year to buy bikes, IMHO - unless an absolute bargain jumps out at you. The second lockdown might make people think twice before selling off bikes until an end to it is in sight. I don't think this will be a normal very low demand winter market this year. Prices will soften, but I don't think they will really plummet yet. Might have to wait until next year for the market to be flooded with secondhand bargains.


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## Jenkins (6 Nov 2020)

There's been a few more out than the recent normal in today's sunshine, but nothing like he first lockdown. It's probably down to there being more work places and shops open plus children still at school so fewer families being able to go out as a group. It will be interesting to see the level of activity over the weekend if the good weather holds.


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## steverob (9 Nov 2020)

When out on my bike on Saturday, my route took me along a local Greenway route I use a fair bit - it's away from the busy main road through fields, but the path itself is mainly well paved with a short section that's fine gravel. Usually travelling along here, I'd expect to see about a dozen people as I proceeded along its length (it's only 2.5 miles long) with about half of those being on bikes, the other half split between joggers and dog walkers.

During the first lockdown, I'd estimate those numbers would have been about doubled in March/April, mainly through an increase in cyclists, especially family groups; but those numbers soon returned to almost normal again by mid/end summer. However this weekend was the busiest I'd EVER seen it, with easily 4-5 times the usual visitor numbers, most of whom seemed to be taking family group walks (some with, some without dogs). Cyclist numbers were maybe slightly higher than usual, but not by much.

No clear reason why everyone had descended upon this route all of a sudden that day when for most of the year it had remained fairly empty (maybe there was a local internet and TV outage and no-one had anything else to do?!) but it was interesting to see. It certainly wasn't busy two weekends before (last weekend was rainy, so unfair to compare to that), but was it just that lockdown was now "official" that caused people to look to do something outside, even though they could have done that any week during the year?


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## Chris S (9 Nov 2020)

fossyant said:


> Ebay prices are still crazy.


They're beginning to drop. This Triumph Traffic Master sold for £16. A few months ago the asking price would have been ten times that.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-traffic-master/114479491149?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## MntnMan62 (9 Nov 2020)

Most of the people who have gone out and bought bikes during Covid were not riding before Covid. So it makes sense that most of those people will be "fair weather" riders. Now that summer is over and there is a chill in the air, many of those new riders will put the bikes away for the winter. Even without Covid, what you're seeing is a seasonal thing.


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## Reynard (9 Nov 2020)

The local recycling center has only shifted two bikes in the last five weeks or so. It's now got well over a dozen bikes for sale, although most of them are fairly basic things. Oh, that Raleigh 20 is still there, and I'm wrestling with temptation...


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## mjr (9 Nov 2020)

There were noticeably more people than usual out cycling again on Saturday, maybe 3x as many as I'd seen the last few weekends, but nothing like April/May, although I wasn't on signposted routes as much as usual on Saturday. The weather here was good and I think there might have been a touch of "this might be the last chance of a sunny day this year" about it.


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## screenman (9 Nov 2020)

The Start and route here today had a lot of cyclists on it, way more than you would have seen this time last year. Great to see new people out on bikes, the more the merrier.


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## cyberknight (10 Nov 2020)

i think the corona boom will die over winter as people get back to the routine of vegging in front of the tv etc now its colder and darker ,roll on next year when bikes get found in sheds etc and get plonked on ebay i am expecting bargains next spring .


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Nov 2020)

I think the market will depend to a degree what you are looking for. The biggest sellers this year by far will have been sub-£500 flat bar hybrids and MTB's. I'm expecting a deluge of those on the used market over the next couple of years.
The majority of coronacyclists will not have been buying high end stuff, although all types of bike will have sold in higher numbers than normal. The sales volumes are at the lower end, and that will be reflected in what reappears used in due course. If you want a B'Twin, Apollo, or Carrera, you'll be spoilt for choice!


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## cyberknight (11 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I think the market will depend to a degree what you are looking for. The biggest sellers this year by far will have been sub-£500 flat bar hybrids and MTB's. I'm expecting a deluge of those on the used market over the next couple of years.
> The majority of coronacyclists will not have been buying high end stuff, although all types of bike will have sold in higher numbers than normal. The sales volumes are at the lower end, and that will be reflected in what reappears used in due course. If you want a B'Twin, Apollo, or Carrera, you'll be spoilt for choice!


I'm after a low end road frame


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## classic33 (11 Nov 2020)

I've seen £2,000 - £4,000 e-assist bikes being sold out. Two local bike shops had no complete bikes in stock in June/July.

Not exactly low end bikes.


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## SkipdiverJohn (11 Nov 2020)

cyberknight said:


> I'm after a low end road frame



You'll be spoilt for choice.



classic33 said:


> I've seen £2,000 - £4,000 e-assist bikes being sold out. Two local bike shops had no complete bikes in stock in June/July.
> 
> Not exactly low end bikes.



They won't have had vast stocks of that sort of bike to begin with. The price makes them comparable to a secondhand car. I'm not seeing huge numbers of expensive e-bikes. There's some e-bikes, but the majority are the cheaper ones or DIY motor kit jobs.
The overwhelming majority of bikes in utility & casual leisure use are still one or two grades above a BSO, and some _are_ BSO's.


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## classic33 (11 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> You'll be spoilt for choice.
> 
> 
> They won't have had vast stocks of that sort of bike to begin with. The price makes them comparable to a secondhand car. I'm not seeing huge numbers of expensive e-bikes. There's some e-bikes, but the majority are the cheaper ones or DIY motor kit jobs.
> The overwhelming majority of bikes in utility & casual leisure use are still one or two grades above a BSO, and some _are_ BSO's.


Giant couldn't supply one of their shops. The other had a stock of 40 e-assist, year round.

Both are now doing repairs only. With keyworkers having priority.


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## Johnsco (11 Nov 2020)

I'm a retired former cyclist who rescued my old bike after 30 years in the garage.
That was my project during the first lock-down.
Having brought it back from the dead, I've just equipped it with two new alloy wheels to replace the shabby steels.
It has a new lease of life and I've rediscovered the joys of cycling.
I've also learned an awful lot of 1960s bicycle engineering ... That's half the interest to me.
There's still a few jobs to do, but it's going well, and it will go better.
I'll probably do a bit less cycling over the winter - The cold and the dark are a big negative .
But I'll stick with it and you'll not be seeing my Carlton for sale for some time yet.


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## screenman (11 Nov 2020)

I will be doing my bit to encourage new cyclist to keep cycling instead of belittling them on a cycling forum, like some seem to prefer to do..


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## FrankCrank (11 Nov 2020)

Reynard said:


> The local recycling center has only shifted two bikes in the last five weeks or so. It's now got well over a dozen bikes for sale, although most of them are fairly basic things. Oh, that Raleigh 20 is still there, and I'm wrestling with temptation...


Best way to stop temptation is to give in to it.


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## Johnsco (11 Nov 2020)

Go-on Go-on Go-on Go-on Go-on !!
You know you really want to.


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## mjr (11 Nov 2020)

screenman said:


> I will be doing my bit to encourage new cyclist to keep cycling instead of belittling them on a cycling forum.


What's convinced you to change? 

Sorry: I know what you meant but that really could be read two ways!


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## ianrauk (11 Nov 2020)

classic33 said:


> I've seen £2,000 - £4,000 e-assist bikes being sold out. Two local bike shops had no complete bikes in stock in June/July.
> 
> Not exactly low end bikes.




Spoke to my friend who works in my LBS yesterday. they can't get enough hybrid and electric bikes. As soon as they are delivered, they are sold. All they have available are high end road bikes. 
Also electric scooters. They are also selling out each batch they get.


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## Reynard (11 Nov 2020)

FrankCrank said:


> Best way to stop temptation is to give in to it.





Johnsco said:


> Go-on Go-on Go-on Go-on Go-on !!
> You know you really want to.



It's the domestic consequences that are keeping me well in check... 

I will have another  though


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## screenman (11 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> What's convinced you to change?
> 
> Sorry: I know what you meant but that really could be read two ways!



Wow! I see what you mean, a bit of editing coming up. Thanks for the pointer I really should stop trying to multitask.


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## Tripster (16 Nov 2020)

If only 1 in 20 keep it up it’s better than none at all. The more people cycle the better it is. My father In Law was a 40 a day smoker from 15 years old, but stopped the moment his daughter was pregnant and never smoked again. He wouldn’t be seen dead on a bike but 3/4 years ago he got a second Hand electric bike and really enjoyed it. Then last year through a friend he picked up an ex demo electric bike and he goes everywhere on it. Loves it. But without an E-bike he would never be able to do the distances he does. A real convert now and his whole view point of cycling and perception of cyclists has changed. He hated them, hated them on the road and chain gangs. Now he takes his grandson out and has a whole different viewpoint of road safety, and the development of safe places to cycle especially with children.
Great to see and hopefully be more like him in that 1 in 20


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## confusedcyclist (23 Nov 2020)

I have read and heard about the long delays to parts and new bikes. Earlier in the year I started browsing for a new road bike, but couldn't find anything in my size so put it off a while. The situation hasn't improved since and won't this year so I bit the bullet have just ordered a new Trek Domane AL 5. I'm told to expect to wait until next August for delivery! It's so far away, I wish I'd commited back in June. I only feel faint traces of excitement about my order, something to look forward to at least! The retail assistant explained the long delay was due to a combination of pressure on supply chains that had fallen behind and can't keep up with exceptional demand. I wonder how much this has to do with a just one or two components being competed over by various brands or if it's more widespread and replicated across all parts of the manufacturing process.


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## Tripster (23 Nov 2020)

My LBS has the Trek Emonda AL6 in all sizes but pricey for Aluminium and a 56cm Domane SL6 disc, red in too


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Nov 2020)

If you've already got a bike of some description, why the need to rush to buy a new one in a market with high pricing and low stock availability? Doing so defies logic. If you had no bike at all and absolutely needed one to get to work on every day, there might be some rational explanation to buying now, but not otherwise.
So you order now and if lucky receive your 2021 model in August 2021, when about a month later you would expect the 2022 models to appear. And for the privilege of owning a "new" model for about a month before it becomes last year's model, you are presumably paying full price and money up front. Hmmm, some strange logic going on here.....


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## Tripster (24 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you've already got a bike of some description, why the need to rush to buy a new one in a market with high pricing and low stock availability? Doing so defies logic. If you had no bike at all and absolutely needed one to get to work on every day, there might be some rational explanation to buying now, but not otherwise.
> So you order now and if lucky receive your 2021 model in August 2021, when about a month later you would expect the 2022 models to appear. And for the privilege of owning a "new" model for about a month before it becomes last year's model, you are presumably paying full price and money up front. Hmmm, some strange logic going on here.....


Blah blah blah... everyone stop buying, don't buy any bikes, you are all illogical morons for doing so 🙄
Why is everyone an idiot if they spend money, buy modern frames, design modern frames or just generally dont conform to your views or choices in bike ?


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## Juan Kog (24 Nov 2020)

Tripster said:


> Blah blah blah... everyone stop buying, don't buy any bikes, you are all illogical morons for doing so 🙄
> Why is everyone an idiot if they spend money, buy modern frames, design modern frames or just generally dont conform to your views or choices in bike ?


Well don't hold back tell us what you really think. Although I'm not totally in the old bikes good new bikes bad camp, skippy makes a good point , unless you're desperate for a new bike sit back and let the market settle/ stabilise . Then you can freely visit a number of shops to test and confirm you are making the right choice.


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## screenman (24 Nov 2020)

I am with Tripster on this, money is for spending. So often on here we are bombarded by people being told they have less sense than money when spending a few quid.


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## Rusty Nails (24 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> If you've already got a bike of some description, why the need to rush to buy a new one in a market with high pricing and low stock availability? Doing so defies logic. If you had no bike at all and absolutely needed one to get to work on every day, there might be some rational explanation to buying now, but not otherwise.
> So you order now and if lucky receive your 2021 model in August 2021, when about a month later you would expect the 2022 models to appear. And for the privilege of owning a "new" model for about a month before it becomes last year's model, you are presumably paying full price and money up front. Hmmm, some strange logic going on here.....



Or people are not always making decisions purely on logic.

Sometimes people really want something sooner rather than later and the extra money isn't an issue.

Life isn't all about saving money.

Logic is overrated.


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## SkipdiverJohn (24 Nov 2020)

Juan Kog said:


> Well don't hold back tell us what you really think. Although I'm not totally in the old bikes good new bikes bad camp, skippy makes a good point , unless you're desperate for a new bike sit back and let the market settle/ stabilise . Then you can freely visit a number of shops to test and confirm you are making the right choice.



I think some people must be suffering with too much lockdown boredom, and they are running out of things to keep them occupied. 
How else do you explain the phenomenon of Faith Based Retail?. Buy a product untried and untested now, pay for it up front, and hope that in nine months time it will actually turn out to be what you wanted. What happens if it fails to live up to expectations, or worse still doesn't even fit very well? Live with it and try to kid yourself? Move it on at a big loss and repeat?


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## classic33 (24 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I think some people must be suffering with too much lockdown boredom, and they are running out of things to keep them occupied.
> How else do you explain the phenomenon of Faith Based Retail?. Buy a product untried and untested now, pay for it up front, and hope that in nine months time it will actually turn out to be what you wanted. What happens if it fails to live up to expectations, or worse still doesn't even fit very well? Live with it and try to kid yourself? Move it on at a big loss and repeat?


A load of folk buy online these days, without ever having seen the goods beforehand. Why should buying a bike be any different?


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## screenman (25 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I think some people must be suffering with too much lockdown boredom, and they are running out of things to keep them occupied.
> How else do you explain the phenomenon of Faith Based Retail?. Buy a product untried and untested now, pay for it up front, and hope that in nine months time it will actually turn out to be what you wanted. What happens if it fails to live up to expectations, or worse still doesn't even fit very well? Live with it and try to kid yourself? Move it on at a big loss and repeat?




Again it is just about the money with you, I sometimes just take a punt to see if I like something, if I do I have won if I do not then I have lost, but at least I know which one it was.


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## Tripster (25 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I think some people must be suffering with too much lockdown boredom, and they are running out of things to keep them occupied.
> How else do you explain the phenomenon of Faith Based Retail?. Buy a product untried and untested now, pay for it up front, and hope that in nine months time it will actually turn out to be what you wanted. What happens if it fails to live up to expectations, or worse still doesn't even fit very well? Live with it and try to kid yourself? Move it on at a big loss and repeat?


Some idiots are intelligent enough to buy online and research enough to know it will fit. They may also consult the moron frame builders for advice on sizing. Unless they are pre pubescent then I doubt they will grow much in 9 months.... my idiotic online purchase arrives in January so hope I dont grow in next few months😱


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## Rusty Nails (25 Nov 2020)

classic33 said:


> A load of folk buy online these days, without ever having seen the goods beforehand. Why should buying a bike be any different?


That’s too 21st century for some.


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## screenman (25 Nov 2020)

My last 2 bikes came without me seeing them or even buying them, I am very happy with them.


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## SkipdiverJohn (26 Nov 2020)

Buying something untried is fine if you've already had one the same before and know exactly what you are getting. I've done it myself, and it involved a lot of money in one instance. 
However, I would not make a significant purchase of a product that I have no previous experience or knowledge of, just based on a description on a website. Maybe money has come too easy to some people, so they are happy to waste it by making poor purchase choices? Seems some have a mentality that so long as the majority of the purchases work out OK, it doesn't matter about those that didn't. They just get put to one side and forgotten about.


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## classic33 (26 Nov 2020)

Maybe they trust the shop doing the selling, having used them before.

Adding, I've bought two bikes, totally unseen aside from a picture in a catalogue, direct from the shop. Trusting the staff there not to sell me something that was useless for me.


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## screenman (26 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Buying something untried is fine if you've already had one the same before and know exactly what you are getting. I've done it myself, and it involved a lot of money in one instance.
> However, I would not make a significant purchase of a product that I have no previous experience or knowledge of, just based on a description on a website. Maybe money has come too easy to some people, so they are happy to waste it by making poor purchase choices? Seems some have a mentality that so long as the majority of the purchases work out OK, it doesn't matter about those that didn't. They just get put to one side and forgotten about.



If you do not try something then you will not know if you like it, not a case of money coming easy it is just many people earn money to spend it not keep it, I know of many couples with many hundreds of pounds left each week after everything is paid out, no point in hoarding it. A very common one in Lincolnshire, you may do it yourself, is to only spend 1 of the 2 incomes that come into the household I have friends that have lived frugally like this for all their married lives only to realise they have got too old to enjoy the hoard.


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## Mo1959 (26 Nov 2020)

screenman said:


> If you do not try something then you will not know if you like it, not a case of money coming easy it is just many people earn money to spend it not keep it, I know of many couples with many hundreds of pounds left each week after everything is paid out, no point in hoarding it. A very common one in Lincolnshire, you may do it yourself, is to only spend 1 of the 2 incomes that come into the household I have friends that have lived frugally like this for all their married lives only to realise they have got too old to enjoy the hoard.


My dad lived like that. Worked so hard all his days and never wanted to spend money. He could have made life more comfortable for himself and treated himself but never saw the point. I am the total opposite. Money burns a hole in my pocket!  

All my bikes bar one have been bought unseen from the internet and all have been absolutely fine.


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## screenman (26 Nov 2020)

Mo1959 said:


> My dad lived like that. Worked so hard all his days and never wanted to spend money. He could have made life more comfortable for himself and treated himself but never saw the point. I am the total opposite. Money burns a hole in my pocket!
> 
> All my bikes bar one have been bought unseen from the internet and all have been absolutely fine.




Just imagine how you are making all those people on here with more sense than money feel with an attitude like that.


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## Tripster (26 Nov 2020)

To me he makes assumptions, I work hard, sacrifice a lot and also save a lot for my kids future. I pay my bills, and have no overheads. Money does not come easy, like I said I work damn hard. I dont drink, dont smoke, dont have a season ticket to any sporting teams.... My father is dying of Alzheimers after years of hard graft and saving. He has no idea who I am anymore.
I will buy what I damn well please with my hard earned savings, I will use it, take very good care of it and maybe when my knees are f**ked I will hand it to someone else to enjoy for many years

I bought my Genesis Day one for £380 from Freeborn, unseen, untested. Love it to this day and use it. About 5 or 6 years old now
I bought my MTB untried, unseen, on sale for £1300, collected on returning from work. Love it, riding it yesterday and its 3 years old now
Dont see me getting rid of them ever. No reason too.
People are capable of buying and knowing what they want despite some peoples strong opinions

Edit: that doesn’t mean I don’t respect @SkipdiverJohn choice of bike or his ideas on how people should spend money and purchase bikes, I just don’t think everyone needs to be told it all the time. Each to there own


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## Tripster (26 Nov 2020)

My LBS is big and carries bikes from Trek, Specialised, Cube, Genesis, Whyte, Pinarello, the list goes on.
They frequently do demo days and events and carry a small test fleet of bikes but usually MTB due to location. As for test riding a road bike, well to carry test fleets for all those makes and models is ridiculously impossible and to test ride a stock bike makes it used goods. Other than sitting on it in the shop, what more can you do. I doubt in 2021 they will have sufficient stock to sacrifice some as test bikes either. 
I have never bought a bike I could actually test ride for a day so as long as I know the geometry I prefer then I can make a pretty good choice.
Testing bikes with companies who have a small range like Mason, Enigma, Spa for example is easier as they carry demo bikes but not the case for many LBS ‘s. Covid times hasn't changed any of that


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## SkipdiverJohn (26 Nov 2020)

screenman said:


> A very common one in Lincolnshire, you may do it yourself, is to only spend 1 of the 2 incomes that come into the household.



I don't spend my overtime money or investment income, I can easily get by just on my basic wages. What's left over goes into my pension or is reinvested in an ISA.


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## screenman (26 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't spend my overtime money or investment income, I can easily get by just on my basic wages. What's left over goes into my pension or is reinvested in an ISA.



When will you have enough?


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## Rusty Nails (26 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> I don't spend my overtime money or investment income, I can easily get by just on my basic wages. What's left over goes into my pension or is reinvested in an ISA.



Not a cash ISA I hope.


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## mjr (27 Nov 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Not a cash ISA I hope.


Why?


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## Johnsco (27 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> Why?


Because the interest rates of cash ISAs are pitiful.


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## Johnsco (27 Nov 2020)

There is a happy mid-way in this discussion of spend-it or save-it.
My father was a keen cyclist --- Ran the local cycling club in the 1930s.
He worked hard all his life and provided well for us.
In his last 15 years, he chose to live the life of a pauper.
He died at 92.
He refused to have central heating installed, maintain his house security or spend anything on himself.
My brother and I pleaded with him to spend his cash on making his life more comfortable.
He told us he was saving it for me and my brother.
We both had homes … We both were better-off than he had ever been.
Eventually I said: "What you don't spend, you can be sure that we'll spend it for you".
It made no difference.
I've always said - "Spend it all and die in debt".
I'll not be following my dad's example when it comes to spending money.
If we want it --- We get it …. But I do spend thoughtfully and try not to waste my hard-earned cash (or my dad's).


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Nov 2020)

screenman said:


> When will you have enough?



In reality I've probably got enough now. This year I've worked less hours than normal due to the virus, so my earnings have been down. My investment returns have also reduced due to dividend cuts. I can live with it and I am unlikely to go back to working as many hours as I did before the virus kicked off. What I do have that reckless spenders don't, is the option to wind down at work over the next few years or retire before the state pension age. People who have dysfunctional finances don't get that choice, they will have to work until they drop. There's a balance to being frugal where you can still enjoy the things you enjoy, but have the money in the pot not to be forced to keep working beyond the age you are happy and able to do.


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## mjr (27 Nov 2020)

Johnsco said:


> Because the interest rates of cash ISAs are pitiful.


Many shares ISAs have done even worse this year, incurring net losses. IMO best wait for the economy to bottom out before moving back into them - and it would be an optimist who thought that was now.


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## Rusty Nails (27 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> In reality I've probably got enough now. This year I've worked less hours than normal due to the virus, so my earnings have been down. My investment returns have also reduced due to dividend cuts. I can live with it and I am unlikely to go back to working as many hours as I did before the virus kicked off. What I do have that reckless spenders don't, is the option to wind down at work over the next few years or retire before the state pension age. People who have dysfunctional finances don't get that choice, they will have to work until they drop. There's a balance to being frugal where you can still enjoy the things you enjoy, but have the money in the pot not to be forced to keep working beyond the age you are happy and able to do.



With respect, how do you know how much money "reckless" spenders have? Reckless is a very subjective word that probably means different things to different people.

I don't think I am reckless in my spending, but I don't judge all my purchases on whether I could have got it cheaper by waiting. I don't like spending too much on a bike because I actually enjoy buying used and doing it up, but I will spend on a brand new car or foreign holiday because I want to rather than need to.

I have retired and hopefully have more money than I will ever spend, other than me and my wife both spending ten years in care homes, but I am trying to leave as little as possible to the kids.


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## Rusty Nails (27 Nov 2020)

mjr said:


> Many shares ISAs have done even worse this year, incurring net losses. IMO best wait for the economy to bottom out before moving back into them - and it would be an optimist who thought that was now.



Since March my shares ISAs have risen by 5% despite some falls in between. One of the problems investors face is never know exactly when a market has bottomed out. My cash ISAs have in the same period lost around 2% spending power, because of inflation.

As long as you don't pile all your money into shares continuing to drip-feed into them is not a bad long term strategy.


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## SkipdiverJohn (27 Nov 2020)

Rusty Nails said:


> Since March my shares ISAs have risen by 5% despite some falls in between. One of the problems investors face is never know exactly when a market has bottomed out. My cash ISAs have in the same period lost around 2% spending power, because of inflation.
> 
> As long as you don't pile all your money into shares continuing to drip-feed into them is not a bad long term strategy.



I can pretty much guarantee any pure cash investment will not return enough currently to keep pace with inflation. You'll lose at least some real value unless you have an inflation-linked product, which I do for about half my cash.
Trying to judge the exact bottom of any market is a bit of a fools paradise. I've bought shares then seen them fall a few percent more, nominally wiping out a year's dividend yield. However, those shares have generally recovered as much if not more than they have lost within a relatively short period. I don't aim for perfect judgement in buying and selling. So long as I buy somewhere near the lows and sell higher than I paid, I'm in pocket. Obviously the better/luckier you are the more you'll make, but fundamentally the first rule of making money is avoid actually losing money. If you can at least do that, then everything else it's just a matter of how positive your result is.


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## Ming the Merciless (27 Nov 2020)

Hard to tell now as you’ll hit a natural cycling low as frost ice and fog makes a return.


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## mjr (27 Nov 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Hard to tell now as you’ll hit a natural cycling low as frost ice and fog makes a return.


I hope those investment puns were deliberate!


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## jay clock (28 Nov 2020)

screenman said:


> My last 2 bikes came without me seeing them or even buying them, I am very happy with them.


bought sight unseen (and I still have them all)

Vitus di2 road bike
Ribble CR3 cx/winter bike
Ridgeback tourer (frame)
Whyte MTB
Brompton
I did order a Jamis from Evans that I went to collect which didn't fit so rejected it. But all of the above are great bikes and very happy bought sight unseen.


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## jay clock (28 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> Buying something untried is fine if you've already had one the same before and know exactly what you are getting. I've done it myself, and it involved a lot of money in one instance.
> However, I would not make a significant purchase of a product that I have no previous experience or knowledge of, just based on a description on a website. Maybe money has come too easy to some people, so they are happy to waste it by making poor purchase choices? Seems some have a mentality that so long as the majority of the purchases work out OK, it doesn't matter about those that didn't. They just get put to one side and forgotten about.


that assumes you hold onto the unsuitable item. if you don't like, you can send back


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## SkipdiverJohn (28 Nov 2020)

jay clock said:


> that assumes you hold onto the unsuitable item. if you don't like, you can send back



There's a hassle factor though to sending things back because you bought wrong, plus the seller is perfectly within their rights to charge you for the cost of delivery & handling. After all, unless the item is actually defective, it's not their fault if you just buy things on guesswork without trying them out. I've got better things to do with my time rather than dealing with retailers and couriers, I would rather just buy the right thing in the first place.


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## mjr (28 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's a hassle factor though to sending things back because you bought wrong, plus the seller is perfectly within their rights to charge you for the cost of delivery & handling.


No, they are not within their rights to do that! Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, they must refund the original delivery and handling. They are not required to refund the cost of returning the item, so the rejecting buyer may still have some cost.


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## classic33 (28 Nov 2020)

SkipdiverJohn said:


> There's a hassle factor though to sending things back because you bought wrong, plus the seller is perfectly within their rights to charge you for the cost of delivery & handling. After all, unless the item is actually defective, it's not their fault if you just buy things on guesswork without trying them out. I've got better things to do with my time rather than dealing with retailers and couriers, I would rather just buy the right thing in the first place.


Do you also buy without asking a single question about the item?


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## mjr (2 Dec 2020)

classic33 said:


> Do you also buy without asking a single question about the item?


But you haven't got time to ask questions! The site says "only 2 left" so you might miss out on that bargain and all marketplace sites are absolutely honest and genuine and not at all trying to pressure sell(!)


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## classic33 (2 Dec 2020)

mjr said:


> But you haven't got time to ask questions! The site says "only 2 left" so you might miss out on that bargain and all marketplace sites are absolutely honest and genuine and not at all trying to pressure sell(!)


You're buying a pig in't poke in that case.

I asked the question as they didn't appear to like buying online, physical shops preferred it seems. Therefore the question relates to possible shop(physical) purchase's, not possible internet purchase's.


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## biggs682 (7 Dec 2020)

YukonBoy said:


> Hard to tell now as you’ll hit a natural cycling low as frost ice and fog makes a return.


Exactly


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## Ming the Merciless (9 Dec 2020)

mjr said:


> I hope those investment puns were deliberate!



You got to capitalise on the investment


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## Chris S (12 Dec 2020)

Somebody is selling a bike they bought in March this year 
https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/adult-hybrid-bicycle-/1392621067


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## Notafettler (30 Dec 2020)

Back to pre coronavirus here for cyclist but only slightly down on walkers.


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