# Another cyclist dead in London



## Luke Redpath (20 Jan 2015)

Getting pretty fed up with reading reports of incidents involving cyclists and HGVs. RIP 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-killed-in-crash-in-north-london-9989385.html


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## numbnuts (20 Jan 2015)

RIP condolences to family and friends
14 dead this year


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## mustang1 (20 Jan 2015)

Just read about this a few minutes ago. Traumatic time for the family who has to receive the news from police. 

Makes me wanna swear, but what will that do. Its crap news for the family. My condolences to them.


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## subaqua (20 Jan 2015)

mustang1 said:


> Just read about this a few minutes ago. Traumatic time for the family who has to receive the news from police.
> 
> Makes me wanna swear, but what will that do. Its crap news for the family. My condolences to them.


 

its crap news for all involved . witnesses , the driver.

I am not going to speculate but read the comments lower down from a witness .


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jan 2015)

It looks like the same issue - travelling together and in the inside as one turns. Really sad and needless. 

I feel we need to launch a big campaign on just this alone for the cycling community. I am sure we can avoid such incidents if we can get the message across.


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## Markymark (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> . I am sure we can avoid such incidents if we can get the message across.


To who?


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## sarahale (20 Jan 2015)

What a horrific way to die.


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## summerdays (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> It looks like the same issue - travelling together and in the inside as one turns. Really sad and needless.
> 
> I feel we need to launch a big campaign on just this alone for the cycling community. I am sure we can avoid such incidents if we can get the message across.


How can the *cycle* community stop this?


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## mustang1 (20 Jan 2015)

subaqua said:


> its crap news for all involved . witnesses , the driver.
> 
> I am not going to speculate but read the comments lower down from a witness .


I see. I didn't read the article in The Standard, but the one at another cycling website. They did not mention the cyclist was in the inside line of the truck. Yes you're right, sad all round. 

If it is the way the witness says, then, well, being on the inside line of any vehicle at a junction is not the right place to be for a vulnerable road user.


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## summerdays (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> I feel we need to launch a big campaign on just this alone for the cycling community. I am sure we can avoid such incidents if we can get the message across.





User said:


> It depends on which this it was.


The one above. Cyclists can't prevent the situation occuring.


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jan 2015)

When UCL scientist Dr Katharine Giles died in a similar situation in August, I sort of kept an eye at junctions and stops. Most cyclists either made their way to the ASL or kept behind the lorries and HGVs. However a small niumber went alongside these vehicles not realising the danger. I don't think they understand the concept of blind spots.


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## summerdays (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> When UCL scientist Dr Katharine Giles died in a similar situation in August, I sort of kept an eye at junctions and stops. Most cyclists either made their way to the ASL or kept behind the lorries and HGVs. However a small niumber went alongside these vehicles not realising the danger. I don't think they understand the concept of blind spots.


And if the lorry/large vehicle comes from behind?


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## glenn forger (20 Jan 2015)

The deaths caused by HGVs are wildly disproportionate to their actual numbers. Therefore, we must assume that cyclists are MORE careless around HGVs than other vehicles. What else could explain it?


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## summerdays (20 Jan 2015)

User said:


> It depends which way it was though. Driver putting themself outside cyclist and turning could be addressed with a campaign calling for better driver education and/or punishment where warranted. Cyclist putting them self inside lorry can be addressed by us educating people we see doing it etc.


Agreed that more education is needed, not just of cyclists as you say, but both sides.


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## subaqua (20 Jan 2015)

glenn forger said:


> The deaths caused by HGVs are wildly disproportionate to their actual numbers. Therefore, we must assume that cyclists are MORE careless around HGVs than other vehicles. What else could explain it?


 

shakes head slowly sighing.


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jan 2015)

summerdays said:


> And if the lorry/large vehicle comes from behind?



At the end of the day, the lorry driver will be convicted but it will not bring back the dead cyclist. If we can make our fellow cyclist aware and avoid them being placed in that situation we will save lives. I have seen safety conscious cyclists get off their bike when a lorry comes from behind and Is just too close for comfort. I have done the same.

Pointless being a dead hero thinking that you were right as the lights go off in your life.


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## numbnuts (20 Jan 2015)

If 14 MPs dropped dead there would be an enquiry and 14 dead in 20 days, by the end of the year it won't even get reported it will be so common


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jan 2015)

numbnuts said:


> If 14 MPs dropped dead there would be an enquiry and 14 dead in 20 days, by the end of the year it won't even get reported it will be so common



Need only 3 MP for a major enquiry.


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## summerdays (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> At the end of the day, the lorry driver will be convicted but it will not bring back the dead cyclist. If we can make our fellow cyclist aware and avoid them being placed in that situation we will save lives. I have seen safety conscious cyclists get off their bike when a lorry comes from behind and Is just too close for comfort. I have done the same.
> 
> Pointless being a dead hero thinking that you were right as the lights go off in your life.


You don't have time to get off your bike, it doesn't just happen if the cyclist is stationary at the lights.


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## glenn forger (20 Jan 2015)

TfL commissioned the Transport Research Laboratory, an independent study group hived off from the Department for Transport in 1996, to look into what could be done to make construction traffic in the capital safer for cyclists.

The findings were damning. Across the industry, it found, there was "a lack of ownership of road risk", unlike the attitude towards accidents on site.

The report makes a dozen recommendations, including that road collisions connected to building sites should be reported as if they were workplace accidents, and that contractors set out safe delivery routes which avoid narrow roads, risky junctions and schools. The report suggests more work on blind spots on lorries, less stressful delivery deadlines and research into whether "pay per load" contracts can tempt drivers into recklessness.

Peter Hendy, who heads TfL, said a particular problem seemed to be limited delivery windows at construction sites: "If you drive a bus and you're late because of traffic you're not asked to make up the time by driving quickly. The construction industry seems to have a very rigid idea about time slots."

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/01/construction-lorries-cyclist-deaths-report


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## subaqua (20 Jan 2015)

strong primary if you get there 1st . if you don't then don't go past left or right . wait for the 3 or 4 seconds it is going to possibly save you. but stay in the strong primary wherever you stop.


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## glenn forger (20 Jan 2015)

The trouble is, cyclists do all that and still get killed.

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Catriona Patel was drunk and chatting on a mobile.

The lorry driver who killed Eilidh Cairns had faulty eyesight (the police didn't even bother to discover this until the same driver killed another woman.)

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Brian Dorling turned across his path.

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Svetlana Tereschenko was in an unsafe lorry, failing to indicate and chatting on a mobile. The police decided to charge him with..nothing.

The lorry driver who killed cyclist Deep Lee failed to notice her and smashed into her from behind.

The lorry driver that killed cyclist Andrew McNicoll failed to notice him and side swiped him.

The lorry driver that killed cyclist Daniel Cox was in a truck which did not have the correct mirrors and whose driver had pulled into the ASL on a red light and was indicating in the opposite direction to which he turned.

That doesn't suggest cautious behaviour by lorry drivers to me.


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## albion (20 Jan 2015)

Arrowfoot said:


> ...However a small niumber went alongside these vehicles not realising the danger. I don't think they understand the concept of blind spots.


Well, of you see one do it catch them up safely and warn them. You might just save a life.

I always assume a driver might not have signalled that being common as muck, at least for car drivers.


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## Arrowfoot (20 Jan 2015)

albion said:


> Well, of you see one do it catch them up safely and warn them. You might just save a life.
> 
> I always assume a driver might not have signalled that being common as muck, at least for car drivers.



Agree.


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## steveindenmark (20 Jan 2015)

Isnt it about time the government funded a public awareness film to be shown on all channels over a period of time.

The ones they showed when I was younger really stuck in my head.


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## Crankarm (20 Jan 2015)

I have tried to warn other cyclists about the dangers of riding up the inside of large and long slow moving or stationary vehicles. I have sat behind buses adjacent to the nearside kerb waiting for them to move off and been pushed out the way buy ninjas on BSOs and MAMILs on road bikes determined to get through even with gaps between an HGV or bus with the kerb of 6 inches. Yep 6 inches! I have seen muppets try to squeeze along between the kerb and a bus. I have been told to fark off for voicing my concern for their safety. It is sad when cyclists are killed when they have been beyond reproach but many sadly put themselves in harms way.

RIP the lady cyclist who was killed this morning.


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## glenn forger (20 Jan 2015)

Driver arrested:

http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11736817.Man_arrested_after_fatal_road_traffic_collision/

not necessarily significant, although arrests do not automatically follow.


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## Accy cyclist (21 Jan 2015)

The other day i was at the lights behind a truck with one of those cyclists beware i can't see you signs on the back. I don't need a sign to keep well back but i witnessed the idiot driving the wagon turn left without indicating. If the driver indicated left on approach to the lights and kept the indicator on surely this would lessen the chances of a cyclist committing the deadly act of pulling up alongside a wagon's blind spot.


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## summerdays (21 Jan 2015)

[QUOTE 3488592, member: 9609"]Where ? London, England, UK, Europe

I'm guess i's London as per the thread title, but that is an astonishing figure.
It is appalling that such carnage is not getting national news coverage.[/QUOTE]
Not just London, I think 3 of those people who have died have been from the south west.


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## Tim Hall (21 Jan 2015)

[QUOTE 3488592, member: 9609"]Where ? London, England, UK, Europe

I'm guess i's London as per the thread title, but that is an astonishing figure.
It is appalling that such carnage is not getting national news coverage.[/QUOTE]
No, it's UK wide. The subject of this thread was the first cyclist to die on London's roads this year (according to the BBC).
Note that of the 14, one died of natural causes (heart attack) and another died after colliding with a pedestrian.


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## Blue Hills (21 Jan 2015)

User13710 said:


> [quote removed, refers to a now-edited post.]


He didn't say that that was what happened in this case/that it was the cyclist's fault.
That remains to be seen.
And RIP as he said.
It is undeniable that there are some stupid cyclists.
I have also seen SOME amazing things.
And had some amazing reacxtions from SOME cyclists when I have pointed out some things.
Be careful out there - you will almost certainly get to your destination faster than any vehicle by bike - no need to win every stage race.


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## fimm (21 Jan 2015)

glenn forger said:


> The lorry driver that killed cyclist Andrew McNicoll failed to notice him and side swiped him.


Do you have a link for this one? I cycle along the road where Mr McNicoll was killed regularly and have never seen any formal reporting of what happened.


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## jonny jeez (21 Jan 2015)

[QUOTE 3488592, member: 9609"]Where ? London, England, UK, Europe

I'm guess i's London as per the thread title, but that is an astonishing figure.
It is appalling that such carnage is not getting national news coverage.[/QUOTE]
Although, to keep a little perspective around a clearly tragic tragic event...I supect the number of pedestrian deaths are far higher...I can't find any stats, perhaps it's too early in the year but I do see that over the last 15 years there have been between 1,000 and 1,500 pedestrian deaths and life changing injuries each year.


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## glenn forger (21 Jan 2015)

fimm said:


> Do you have a link for this one? I cycle along the road where Mr McNicoll was killed regularly and have never seen any formal reporting of what happened.



Prosecutors alleged Mr Stewart overtook Mr McNicoll, of Balerno, at an unsafe point in the road and that a trailer that was attached to his vehicle came into contact with the bike rider.

Prosecution lawyers alleged this caused the keen road cyclist to lose control of his bike and hit a parked Mazda.

The horror smash caused serious injuries and led to the insurance officer dying. During proceedings, the court heard that accident investigators were unable to prove the accident was caused by bad driving.

In his closing speech, defence advocate Steve Love described Mr McNicoll’s death as “sad”, but said the evidence surrounding the alleged incident pointed to it being a “tragic accident” as opposed to a criminal act.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...er-death-of-cyclist-andrew-mcnicoll-1-3348358


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## benb (21 Jan 2015)

I'm not aware of any evidence showing what percentage of these kind of incidents are caused by the cyclist going up the inside, and what percentage by a left hook.

Does anyone else know?
It would be quite useful, as I often see people write stuff along the lines of "Well, what do you expect when cyclists always go up the inside?"


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## glenn forger (21 Jan 2015)

Exactly. Magnatom, ex of this parish, showed footage that led to a conviction for careless driving. Idiot overtook towing a trailer and very nearly smashed into Magnatom as he cut back in. Magnatom shouted, the driver said "You undertook you cxxx!" 

His excuse was rehearsed. The driver knew what to say to get off, without the footage he would have got away with it. Driver kills a cyclist, two witnesses know what happened and one's dead, the driver claims "They undertook!" case closed.


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## fimm (21 Jan 2015)

glenn forger said:


> Prosecutors alleged Mr Stewart overtook Mr McNicoll, of Balerno, at an unsafe point in the road and that a trailer that was attached to his vehicle came into contact with the bike rider.
> 
> Prosecution lawyers alleged this caused the keen road cyclist to lose control of his bike and hit a parked Mazda.
> 
> ...


 Thank you.


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## glenn forger (21 Jan 2015)

It's horrible. Ride close to parked cars and you get doored and killed like Sam Harding. Driver walked free from court.

Ride in Primary and a lorry entering the road you're on can crush you to death anyway, like mother-of-five Mrs Pinhamy. Driver walked free from court.

Dominate the lane completely and you can get rammed from behind and killed like Mr Mason. Driver was found guilty of manslaughter and got five years inside. Not really, she wasn't charged with anything.


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## benb (21 Jan 2015)

Still, bloody cyclists, eh?


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## classic33 (27 Jan 2015)

Much respect.
The family of a cyclist killed in a crash with a lorry today paid tribute to her “effervescent and infectious spirit” as the London cycling community she treasured staged a “die in” protest in her memory.

Physiotherapist Stephanie Turner, 29, was killed two miles from her home when she was hit by an HGV as she turned left into Amhurst Park off the Seven Sisters Road in Stamford Hill on Tuesday last week.

The university graduate was killed four months after her sister Clair Widdicombe, a 38-year-old primary school teacher, died giving birth last September.

Our sincerest condolences go out to Stephanie, friends and family.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-to-woman-killed-in-lorry-crash-10004488.html


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## steveindenmark (28 Jan 2015)

This type of incident, where a lorry turns at a junction and collides with a cyclist is not just a UK phenomenom. It is also the biggest cause of cycling deaths in Denmark each year. Obviously, ours occur on right turns.

It also appears most of the victims are women. Two of the reasons given for that is that men are more able to get themselves off a bike in an emergency situation or are more able to actually ride the bike up the kerb onto the footpath.
All I am doing here is repeating what a study said.

As an ex lorry driver I cannot see how a driver can ride passed a bike and then turn in front of them without knowing where they are. If you are turning at the next junction and dont have time to overtake, it is far easier and safer to hang back and let the cyclist pass the junction.

On the other hand if you are in slow moving traffic or stationary traffic and a cyclist comes up the Inside, they can be almost impossible to see, even if you have a cab decked out like a Vespa scooter with mirrors.


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## benb (28 Jan 2015)

I'd be interested in a breakdown of all incidents where a cyclist is killed or injured by a left-turning lorry, to know how many were due to the cyclist going up the inside, and how many were left hooks.

Does anyone know if such analysis exists?


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## benb (28 Jan 2015)

User said:


> When the cyclist is dead, who says what happened?



That is certainly a problem with KSI datasets.


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## albion (28 Jan 2015)

benb said:


> ....Does anyone know if such analysis exists?


Well. I saw a BBC map of deaths a year or two back and what appalled me was that the main 2 deaths that had stuck in mind and correctly checked for, were not reported on the map.

So if you see one, be aware that it may likely be incomplete, god knows why.


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## jefmcg (29 Jan 2015)

I've been passed by probably tens of thousands of HGVs, and virtually none of them has tried to kill me. But "virtually none" is still half a dozen or more, and one is all that's required. They overtake me, and immediately move into the space I was intending to occupy. If I hadn't slowed down, and on a couple of occasions braked suddenly, I have been killed. And someone, somewhere would have been making remarks about female cyclists putting themselves in danger


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## Scoosh (29 Jan 2015)

*MOD NOTE:*
This thread is about a Cyclist who has been killed.

It is NOT the place to be bickering about the visibility of any cyclists from the cab of an LGV. If you wish to discuss that, start another thread. Many posts have been Deleted to 'encourage' this.

Please be respectful to the late cyclist and others who are saddened and upset by this incident.


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