# Road Helmet or None?



## Hacienda71 (16 May 2014)

Not a safety debate please, just an aerodynamic question. 
I know the use of helmets is not mandatory withe the CTT, is a cycling cap going to be much better aerowise than a standard vented road helmet in a TT?


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## JasonHolder (17 May 2014)

No discernible difference. And I've been bald before for that reason. More legs works better


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## ufkacbln (17 May 2014)

JasonHolder said:


> No discernible difference. And I've been bald before for that reason. More legs works better



Trouble is most bikes are designed for two legs


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## palinurus (17 May 2014)

No idea, but when I wear a cap it's got to be peak facing rearwards unless it's raining.


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## ufkacbln (17 May 2014)

Just to putthe cat amongst the pidgeons!

There is a "third way" with an aero helmet.

Gone are the days when these were a simple shell that smoothed windflow, some pass the same safety standards as "normal" road helmets, but certainly claim to have aerodynamic benefits


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## Hacienda71 (17 May 2014)

I was just trying to gauge the difference between with road helmet or without. 
I am trying to get a long 23 in on my road bike before any additional expense on TT specific kit. I am riding 24's now so am getting close, just looking for some cheap aero advantage.


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## Sharky (17 May 2014)

Normal road helmet, but tape over all the air vents with duct tape or similar.
Keith


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## 400bhp (17 May 2014)

I don't know enough about the aerodynamics of a helmet/no helmet.

Although a helmet makes a larger frontal area, its overall shape might be better.

An educated guess would be no helmet is better.

You have tri bars don't you? What about your overall position on the bike?

I would say you ride position is pretty agressive, but if you use bars, then have a go at putting the seat slightly forward (no more than 10mm) and drop the stem up to 10mm.

Issue is with road bikes and tt bars is you end up too stretched.


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## Rob3rt (17 May 2014)

User said:


> A naked shaved head is worth about 30 seconds over a 10m TT.



Probably not far off!


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## Hacienda71 (17 May 2014)

I'm going to ride next weeks TT with just a cap, peak to the rear and see how it goes. I think I will look at relative placing rather than time to see if it gave me much of an advantage.


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## montage (18 May 2014)

If I see people competing without a helmet in anything but a hill climb, they instantly get placed in the nobber category. You say you don't want a safety argument, but at the end of the day it is dumb and sets a terrible example - what happens if you do knock off 30 secs from your PB, the rest of your club notice that and decide to lose the helmet next time? How would you feel if one of these guys crashed?

Just be responsible, wear the friggin helmet, if anything so you don't look like a tw@t. Tape up the vents or borrow a TT helmet if you want to experiment.


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## Hacienda71 (18 May 2014)

montage said:


> If I see people competing without a helmet in anything but a hill climb, they instantly get placed in the nobber category. You say you don't want a safety argument, but at the end of the day it is dumb and sets a terrible example - what happens if you do knock off 30 secs from your PB, the rest of your club notice that and decide to lose the helmet next time? How would you feel if one of these guys crashed?
> 
> Just be responsible, wear the friggin helmet, if anything so you don't look like a tw@t. Tape up the vents or borrow a TT helmet if you want to experiment.


 That is your opinion which I respect I will not comment on it as I specifically said I *don't *want a helmet debate.


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## mcshroom (18 May 2014)

montage said:


> If I see people competing without a helmet in anything but a hill climb, they instantly get placed in the nobber category. You say you don't want a safety argument, but at the end of the day it is dumb and sets a terrible example - what happens if you do knock off 30 secs from your PB, the rest of your club notice that and decide to lose the helmet next time? How would you feel if one of these guys crashed?
> 
> Just be responsible, wear the friggin helmet, if anything so you don't look like a tw@t. Tape up the vents or borrow a TT helmet if you want to experiment.


That's your opinion that I personally have very little respect for, but the OP has asked for this not to be a helmet debate.


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## montage (18 May 2014)

Hacienda71 said:


> That is your opinion which I respect I will not comment on it as I specifically said I *don't *want a helmet debate.



Yes a cap will be more aero - but please have a think about the wider implications of not wearing a helmet beyond your own safety. If you are posting sub 24s, then (course dependent) you're approaching the times that the younger ones and newcomers are starting to look up to and may consider the removal of their own helmet as necessary for progress. 

By nature people try to emulate the actions of those posting fast times, especially if it involves cheap/ free gains, please just set a good example rather than consider it as a matter of personal safety.

Above all, TTing in a cap or with nothing just isn't a good look - why waste a good photo opportunity?


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## Spinney (18 May 2014)

*Mod message*: as above - please stick to the topic of this thread, and don't turn it into another 'helmet debate' of the usual kind!


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## montage (18 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> *Mod message*: as above - please stick to the topic of this thread, and don't turn it into another 'helmet debate' of the usual kind!



As I have said it is about community responsibility not your usual safety kind. The op has already been sufficiently answered


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## Spinney (18 May 2014)

*Mod message* But doesn't the community responsibility aspect depend on accepting that helmets are beneficial for safety? So this _is _verging on the standard 'helmet debate' - please leave it there.


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## montage (18 May 2014)

Spinney said:


> *Mod message* But doesn't the community responsibility aspect depend on accepting that helmets are beneficial for safety? So this _is _verging on the standard 'helmet debate' - please leave it there.



You have opened up a whole 'nother door to debate then asked for the matter to be shut? 

Event organising is stressful, and takes a hell of a lot of effort. Part of that effort is not only rider safety, but in broadening the reach, for example pushing forward women's cycling, creating fun and safe environments for new category races and time triallists. Obviously image of the current scene is a massive part of this - if a bad example is set, guess what happens. Whether or not a helmet increases safety, there _is_ a drive in the organisation scene towards this as we speak, and as you can imagine (illustrated here) is providing some hot discussion. It does not take much effort to derail these efforts. I make my points from somebody who has put on a lot of events, and it is some of the attitudes above which sometimes make it seem like a waste of time. People should just show some bloody responsibility and make lives a tiny bit easier for those providing the groundwork for the hobby you love and enjoy. If you are not the one pushing the paperwork over some kid's cracked skull it is easy to be an internet warrior on the matter.

I'm done here - my point has been made, Hacienda comes across as intelligent enough to make his own decision on the matter given the information on performance and "other" matters discussed.


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## montage (18 May 2014)

With respect to the modding and the OP, I shall continue any conversations regarding the relevance of this thread (and internet heroes such as above wanting to flex) via PM.


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## jongooligan (18 May 2014)

User said:


> A naked shaved head is worth about 30 seconds over a 10m TT.



A cycling buddy back in the 70's had a 'Kevin Keegan' type perm hairdo. He reckoned this put 20 secs on his 10 time so he had a skinsuit specially made that had a hood. When he pulled it over his head it crushed the perm closely to his skull, effectively making him bald. It also made him look a right t**t but he was convinced he was a lot faster wearing it.

Cycling cap worn backwards looks the biz - not sure if it makes you any quicker tho.


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## ufkacbln (21 May 2014)

montage said:


> Above all, TTing in a cap or with nothing just isn't a good look - why waste a good photo opportunity?



You can always get a sponsor's name tattoed on your head........ but make sure you get a lengthy contract first.


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## Staffordshire Lad (27 May 2014)

Hi,
I would say from experience that a good TT helmet DOES improve times compared to a normal road helmet. However, if I were racing against say Matt Bottrill wearing a road helmet and me in a TT helmet, I think I'd know who'd win. Matt..... everytime. What I'm trying to say is this. It's not down to the helmet. It's down to the rider, and your training. You could get another 30seconds off just by training without buying a TT helmet. Also, weather conditions affect your time. And you're bike fit. Do you use aero bars? They do make a big difference but only if you've got them and yourself set up correctly. Just putting on a set of clip-ons may not be the answer if you're not positioned correctly. It's the combination of a lot of things that will improve your time and get that long 23 you're after.

To answer the original question; "_I was just trying to gauge the difference between with road helmet or without. 
I am trying to get a long 23 in on my road bike before any additional expense on TT specific kit. I am riding 24's now so am getting close, just looking for some cheap aero advantage._" I'd say this..... If you are getting 24's without TT specific I'd just consider tweaking your training to specifically achieving your TT aim. If you wanted to buy some TT kit, maybe start with clip-on aero bars. A TT helmet will improve your time but you'll need to get one that suits you so ask around and try some on before buying. Other things to consider are a skinsuit and overshoes/oversocks. Obviously, the type of bike you ride will have an effect on your time too. 

Good luck and I hope you achieve your goal of a 23.


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## Acesand8s (4 Jun 2014)

Depends on head possition. Head down, no-healmet wins, it is stupid, but faster with a cap. Head-up, an aero helmet with a longer tail wins, but is no longer allowed, as is not actually safe and negates the safety idea of having a helmet.


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## Rob3rt (5 Jun 2014)

Acesand8s said:


> Depends on head possition. Head down, no-healmet wins, it is stupid, but faster with a cap. Head-up, an aero helmet with a longer tail wins, but is no longer allowed, as is not actually safe and negates the safety idea of having a helmet.



What are you on about long tail no longer allowed? You can wear whatever the hell you want unless special conditions are stated prior to entry.

FWIW, I use a Bell Javelin on straight or fast courses where I can keep my head still and my speed high. I use a Kask Bambino when it is technical, hilly or very cross windy.

I used to use a Giro Selector in all conditions but gave up on the crappy fitting mechanism.

Oh I also have an LG Course aero road helmet for very hot conditions, long hill climbs and also as a backup in long distance TT's incase the aero lid gets too much.


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## Acesand8s (5 Jun 2014)

Well it depends what race i guess. And how long.


Rob3rt said:


> What are you on about long tail no longer allowed? You can wear whatever the hell you want unless special conditions are stated prior to entry.
> 
> FWIW, I use a Bell Javelin on straight or fast courses where I can keep my head still and my speed high. I use a Kask Bambino when it is technical, hilly or very cross windy.
> 
> ...


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## frank9755 (5 Jun 2014)

Given the OP was asking specifically about CTT time trials, what Rob3rt says is correct.


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## Cyclopathic (31 Jul 2014)

I spray GT all over myself to make me less wind resistant. I reckon it's taken about an hour off my 10 mile time.


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## Herzog (31 Jul 2014)

Cyclopathic said:


> I spray GT all over myself to make me less wind resistant. I reckon it's taken about an hour off my 10 mile time.



Gotta have pics with that...


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## TheJDog (14 Aug 2014)

At the tt I was at last night a guy had forgotten his aero helmet, so he cling-filmed his regular helmet. I suppose it's marginal gains...


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